3 24 51 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1b64f55a7dbd7dc7175438b0a9709c80.mp4 865c0169efff1f1c763542b8b6293b15 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ef13599ed0c98ada1c77d1bd4a3b3787.pdf 634482ef9c7f81791b753a0c9a998049 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University All American Girls Professional Baseball League Veterans’ History Project Interviewee’s Name: Lou Arnold Interviewer: “Lou can you start out by telling us a little bit about yourself, for instance, where and when were you born?” I was born in Pawtucket Rhode Island in 1925-May 11, 1925. Interviewer: “They have you in the book as being born in 1923?” I mean 1923. Interviewer: “Just checking on it. That will be the one time I can catch you up on something probably. You were born in 1923 and did you grow up on Pawtucket or did you grow up somewhere else?” I’m the thirteenth child and that’s why my numbers thirteen on my uniform. I was born in Rhode Island, Pawtucket and grew up in Rhode Island. Interviewer: “What did your family do for a living?” My father, at one time, had a cemetery. I don’t know what you call it, but he took care of it and people that came to be buried and my mother never worked. My father also taught a wood working school for a while. 1:12 Interviewer: “Was he able to keep his job through the depression?” No, as a matter of fact we lost our home during the depression. You know I was young then and I had all the kids in the neighborhood come over and I said,” We got a red flag on our house, we got a red flag on our house”. We didn’t know, my mother went to New York and we had no idea and that’s what it was, they were auctioning it off—yeah, that’s something to remember. Interviewer: “Did you stay in Pawtucket and just live somewhere else?” No, I stayed in Pawtucket and I played softball. I played softball for the “Opit Milk Maids” and we won the championship in softball and we changed it to different names like the “Townies” and different names, but they were all farm gals but myself. 1:59 Interviewer: “How did you hook up with them? How did you wind up playing for them?” They were playing at the ball park one night and we went to see them and my brother-in law’s brother was there and he said, “Lou, you ought to get in and play ball with them”, 1 �and I said, “oh, I don’t know, I just pick-up”, so I went—not to the tryout, but to the team, to try with the team and I played shortstop since the first time I went. 2:21 Interviewer: “All right, had you been playing a lot just around the neighborhood before?” No, not too much, but I had a brother who use to pitch to me and I played catch with my brother, but that team—I think I was fourteen or fifteen when I started on that team and I stayed with that team. Interviewer: “You stayed with that team. Now did they pay you?” No, it was just an amateur thing, but one thing we did—we played in Boston Garden maybe every other Friday night and that’s something that—I don’t know of any other team—Mary Pratt might have, I don’t know. We use to go to the Boston Garden on Friday night. 3:09 Interviewer: “That’s an old indoor arena.” Yes, that was a big deal to us you know to go. Interviewer: “Would you get a crowd to watch you play?” They had a pretty good crowd there, yeah. Interviewer: So how was it exactly that you wind up joining the professional baseball league?” I was with the “Townies” then, and they were playing the sailors down at Newport and they had a girl pitcher and the two women pitched against each other and we were there and we played and had a good time and when we came out this man walked up and he said, “hey Lou, how would you like to play professional baseball?” And I said, “Oh, wonderful, yeah, yeah”. We had never known him, well, he asked myself and three other girls, four of us. The other three went and they called me and said, “Oh Lou you should come out, you’d love it”, but you know, at the time I had a boyfriend in the service and stuff like that you know. 4:14 I hesitated and finally I said, “I think I’m going to go”. Well, my mother was a little upset and my father was too, but anyway, I went and I remember I took the train and went to Opa-locka, Florida. That’s where they had the spring training and that’s where we had old barracks to stay in and all that. It was very good and I don’t know if you saw the movie, but it was like in the movie, you get playing a game with different people and all of a sudden the roster is up there and you go and look at it and it’s sad—say you were next to me and I got on and you know we got to be good friends playing and the girl next to me couldn’t make it, she didn’t make it and she’s crying and I’m crying and I’m crying for her, but it was a wonderful, wonderful experience. 5:12 Interviewer: “So you were trying out for which team?” 2 �They were going to pick for the teams and the “Blue Sox” picked me and I stayed with them all the time. Interviewer: “Is that the South Bend Blue Sox?” Yes, the South Bend Blue Sox. Interviewer: “At this time you said you had been a short stop.” I almost flipped when I got out there and they had a man that worked with you on pitching and he said, “We’re going to make a pitcher out of you”. At the time I had a pretty good arm, you know a shortstop can throw them over pretty good and I think that’s what made him think that I’d be a wonderful, wonderful pitcher. Well, I don’t think I was a wonderful, wonderful pitcher, but you did as they said you know and the man worked with me and everything a lot, so that’s how I got to pitch. 5:59 Never, never played another position on a team, never got the chance. Interviewer: “What they were doing with you is what they do with professional male baseball players. They may start at one position, but then they said, “well, you have the skills to go over here and that’s what we need”, so short stops can become pitchers for the very reason that you did, they had good arms. See, you had a good arm and you learned to pitch pretty well.” I don’t feel I was a star or anything. Interviewer: “Now, at the point when you joined the league, this was the point when they had gone to overhand pitching. If they had been still been doing underhand or sidearm, would you have done that?” Oh I would have if they wanted me to, but I went out for shortstop you know. 6:47 Interviewer: “and when you were shortstop, the shortstops pretty much, they would all be throwing overhand normally wouldn’t they? Throw fast.” Oh yeah. Interviewer: “That was a little more natural.” In softball you have to throw that ball over there for shortstop. Interviewer: “How was the game you were starting to play, how was that different from the softball you had been playing back up in New England?” I never played softball here. The year I came out in 1948 they went over to— Interviewer: “What I’m asking is how was that baseball different from what you had been doing in the amateur league?” 3 �Well, for one thing, the bases were farther apart and the pitching mound a little away too and it was really exciting to be honest with you though I loved softball and it is hard to pick between the two of them because I enjoyed myself at softball and I played every single game and every single day that we played. 7:44 Interviewer: “Were you a little bit older than some of the other women?” Yes, I was twenty-five, I think, when I went in or twenty-four or something like that. I think it was twenty-five or twenty-six. Interviewer: “Did that make you almost a mother figure for some of them? Would you do things to help some of them adjust?” Oh yes, yes, oh yes and I use to talk and sometimes we would have a girl keep score one time back home and going to the gym and this girl said to me, “I never do anything but score keeping”, and boy I really told that kid I said, “you know, if you didn’t keep their score nobody would have their average, nobody would know what their hitting, you’re just as important as the girl that gets the home runs”. That kid looked at me as if to say, “are you crazy lady?” 8:46 I said, “I’m serious”, and it’s true, no matter what—even if you carry the water you’re carrying it for someone to get a drink and it’s going to help them to either get a base hit or strike somebody out or throw somebody out. No matter what you do it’s professional. I couldn’t believe you know, I think the first time I made sixty-five dollars a week and I left a job that I earned thirteen dollars and seventy-five cents a week. I made more than some of the superintendents back home. It might sound crazy, but that was a lot of money a week 9:26 Interviewer: “What did you do with your money?” Well, I sent money home to my mom and a lot of them went to college, which was a very smart thing. A lot of the ball players are college graduates, but I never went to college. Interviewer: “That gets a little farther in the story. Do you remember making the trip up to South Bend and arriving there and looking around?” Well not too much, I remember I went on a train from Rhode Island to Florida and you know never being out of Rhode Island, it was really, really “whew” I was afraid somebody was going to grab me, I don’t know, but when you got there and you met all the gals—you never knew what team you were going to be on and you didn’t even know if you were going to be picked, but it was a wonderful time and what an experience for kids from Rhode Island—we just never went—maybe Boston was the farthest we went, if we went then. 10:37 What a thrill, just absolutely. You know sir I’m going to tell you— ever since I played ball, from the first night I joined the South Bend Blue Sox, I never, never in my life missed a night without thanking God for that opportunity. I’m eighty-six today and that was a wonderful time of your life. It was the cleanest league, not that there were any dirty leagues or anything, but that was one of the cleanest leagues you would ever want to be in. It made you proud if you never got off the bench just to be 4 �there. The gals were just wonderful to me, absolutely wonderful and I was so scared, but it didn’t take long for them to get with me and everything, you know. 11:27 Interviewer: “Now how much sort of support did they give you? Were they still using chaperones, did they still have a lot of rules for you to follow?” Oh yes, the chaperones were very, very good though. We had to be in by eleven, eleven thirty depending on what kind of a game it was and you weren’t supposed to wear shorts or slacks off the bus or anything like that. We wore shorts on the bus because it was so warm, but we had skirts that we put on. You wore skirts almost all the time because you couldn’t go out anyplace unless you kind of sneak out the window. If we went to the park to have a hot dog roast or something we wore shorts or slacks, but that’s a little different. 12:12 Interviewer: “Where did you live when you went up to South Bend?” I lived at I’ll say South Bend; I lived there most of the time in houses, in homes. When you went, somebody had to, if you were a rookie, somebody had to take you as their roommate, one of the older ones, someone that wasn’t a rookie. That’s how you got into a room with someone. Interviewer: “Do you remember who your first roommate was?” Her name was Thompson, but I can’t think—I think her last name was Thompson, but I’m not sure. I wasn’t with her too long because they traded--they traded like crazy, but I had wonderful roommates. 13:03 Wonderful roommates and landladies, they were just—they would have pies made for us and lots—we were really treated wonderful. I never—I worked at Bendix for thirty years and I never even said that I played ball. There were maybe five of us that worked at Bendix and none of us mentioned playing ball and when they found out that we played ball they went insane. “You never told us you played for the South Bend Blue Sox” and stuff like that. 13:35 To us it was wonderful and not private, but to me it meant so much and I never felt I was a star or anything, but I use to pitch to the stars and they got better by hitting the ball. One gal came in and she said, “Lou, I never get to do anything, sometimes I throw at the bat”, and I said, “If they didn’t have you to throw to them, how are they going to keep their eye on the ball. You mean a lot to them and don’t think that you don’t. Don’t feel that way.” That helped a lot and who was I to tell them, that’s my opinion, I mean that’s how I felt and I got wonderful, wonderful friends out of it. 14:26 Interviewer: “I will tell you, as we were organizing the set of interviews etc. and planning to call even before we got here people said again and again, “You have to talk to Lou Arnold”, which means those friends of yours are real friends and they thought she was someone we should talk to.” I’ll tell you, I get very, very touchy about it, but you can’t believe the friends I got out of this league. You just can’t believe it and I feel that I could call any single ball player that 5 �I know and I’ve met off the ball field now or they could call me and they would give me their last dime and I would give them my last dime. 15:11 Interviewer: “Now let’s shift gears a little bit and let’s go into the business of playing ball. How many games would you play do you think in the space of a week during the season?” Oh, if I played one—I never played too many games, I don’t feel like I played too many games, but I was always in the bullpen. Marty McManus used to let me go to the bullpen every single night. He use to tell me to go there. Sometimes I would come out and they would do all right and sometimes they wouldn’t do too good and they would put someone else in. Interviewer: “Did you start a lot of games?” Oh yeah, I started some games and some I stayed in and some I had to come out. 15:57 Interviewer: “You did have a season when you went ten and two.” Oh that was in fifty-one. Interviewer: “How did that happen? Did everything just work right for you that year?” You know I had a one hitter in that year and Jean [Fout] had pitched a perfect game a day or two before and I was going for a no hitter and this girl that got the hit—it was the Texas league and you know what that is, but that team played behind me like they were shot out of a cannon. They caught everything and stopped everything and threw everybody out and all that, so it ended up a one hitter and I was so thrilled about it, besides we had a wonderful, wonderful umpire, Barney Ross, and I was pitching to this girl who wasn’t the best hitter and he called a strike a ball which meant a lot because we would not had our chance to get this Texas league, so I walked up to the thing, of course my catcher was yelling at him and I said, “Barney, I want to tell you something”, and he said, “yes Lou”, and I said, “You are going blind.” He said, “Lou, I want to tell you something, you go back to that mound and I’ll show you how blind I’m getting.” 17:14 I think he gave me a break on a couple of them after that though. Interviewer: “Now, in this league did you have a regular set of umpires?” Yea, Gadget Ward and Barney Ross, those are the two I remember because we had them the most and I can’t remember the ones out of town. Interviewer: “So, there were umpires that lived near or in South Bend?” Yes, they were both in South Bend and they were both good umpires, but Gadget, if you said one thing, “boom”. 6 �Interviewer: “On the whole, do you think the players in your league were better behaved than say our male baseball players in terms of arguing with the umpire or challenging them?” Oh yes, yes they were. Instead of giving certain signals to the crowd if they’re booing or something, they never—no. 18:11 Interviewer: “Did you feel as if you had to be better behaved than the men?” No, I don’t think any of us ever gave it a thought. I don’t think any of us ever gave that a thought. You would be surprised at the women that came out, good living women. We all wanted to win you know, we’d ride the other team, but I cannot say any bad things about the women and not because I played with them because I was with the South Bend Blue Sox and I never went to another team, but we met some gals after and we would go and have something to eat, which was really against the rules, but the manager kind of knew you know. 19:02 Maybe we would meet someone after the game and go and have something to eat, but that’s all. Interviewer: “Who was the manager while you were there?” My favorite first manager was Marty McManus, the Red Sox, remember he had the Red Sox? Then I had Dave Bancroft, then I had Jean Fout’s husband and I can’t think of his name now, we won with him. Marty McManus, he was a sweetheart, oh, he was so good. 19:38 Interviewer: “Now, did you learn from the manager and from the coaches?” Oh yeah, oh yeah, learn how lead off on the bases and stuff like that. Interviewer: “Could they help you with your pitching?” Oh yea, I had my own—not my own, but we had a pitching coach that worked with us and I don’t even know his name now, but he was a nice guy. Interviewer: “Do you know what kind of pitches you could throw?” Drops and curves and changeups and today I can’t even pick up a pencil, but really it was a---not I, but some of them would throw a double drop and double—Jean Fout, Jean Fout to me was the greatest of great. I mean, even if she pitched a game and we had a double header and someone was running, coach would say, “Jean, go in and play third base”, that girl never, never said a word, never balked at all and went right in. 20:53 Interviewer: “when you were going good and pitching well in a game, were you getting people out by changing speed and locations and fooling them, what were you doing?” 7 �I don’t know, I don’t know what I did, but I had a little skill, but I didn’t have what the others had and I’m not saying that trying to be nice, it’s true, I really don’t know, but I was so thankful I was able to stay there. Interviewer: “You mentioned, you started off by going down to their spring training. Did you go down to Florida for spring training every year?” 21:32 No, the next year they started having it in South Bend and some of the team went to— overseas, they went there for a while, I’m sure they told you about that. Interviewer: “Some went to Cuba.” Cuba, yes, and I’m glad I didn’t have to go there. Interviewer: “What kind of fan support did you have? Did you have a lot of fans coming to the games?” Wonderful. I remember the first game, I was there and we worked out in the field to start and we had the skirts on and I can still hear this guy up in the stands say, “Oh look at the outfits, oh, oh, ladies, ladies”. I think about the third inning he couldn’t believe those ladies slide and everything and he would come to every game, he was really impressed. I can still hear him, he would say, “beeeutiful” when we made a nice play “beautiful”. It had to change him because those women would slide and they come in and we called them “strawberries” and they would have blood running down their legs and we would stand in front of it and fan it when we were playing. The chaperones would put methiolate on it. 22:54 They would wrap it up and they would go right back out and if they had to slide again, they would slide. Interviewer: “You were a pitcher and you probably didn’t have to slide much did you?” No, all I had to try to do is get to first base and sometimes I did on a walk, I don’t know. I don’t remember much. Interviewer: “Now, you were on the team when they won two championships, what do you remember about Guy Kennedy? How did they do with championship series, did they have play offs with a lot of teams or the two best teams or what?” It starts with, I wish I could remember the name of it, but it starts with six teams, then four teams would play and then it gets down to two and when it gets down to two, that’s the big challenge and I think it was either three out of five or four out of seven. 23:54 Interviewer: “So it was a real series like a world series.” Yes, it was a series and I’m trying to think of the name of it, but I can’t. 8 �Interviewer: “Now, one of those championship seasons you played short handed. Can you explain a little bit why you didn’t have all of your players?” Well, I really don’t know and you’ll probably hear this story from somebody else, but this girl was an excellent second baseman—came in and it was close to the ninth inning and we were leading, I think it was the ninth inning we were leading, and she sat down on the bench and she took her shoes off. Well, the manager was out there and he saw her take her shoes off and he said, “hey shorty I want you to run for second base”, and she said, “take Betty Wagner, she can run as fast as I can”, and he said, “no, no, I said get in and run”, and she said, “Betty can do it”, like this, he said, “you’re out, you don’t need to come back”, so when he said that, three or four others said, “if you let her go, I’m going”, so we ended up with seven, eight or nine players, but we had fifteen all the time to start. 25:18 It was a shame because they were all good ball players and they walked out. Interviewer: “But you still managed to win the championship.” Yea, and that was a big deal you know for everybody, that was neat. Interviewer: “Now, over the time you were playing in South Bend and that’s 19481952, did the crowds eventually start to get smaller?” In 1952 they started to get smaller because you didn’t have to have the gas tickets anymore for gas. A lot of them would come in groups or by buses. One of our biggest games was the fourth of July game and I think we had ten thousand that day and they were sitting on the grass that went up like this and they were sitting on the grass out there, but we had a pretty big crowd. 26:15 Interviewer: “You were talking about gas coupons, you mean gas rationing ended?” Yea, when gas was rationed and when the war was over they didn’t have to have rationing and they could drive. A lot of them would come on the bus or they would come in groups and a lot of them walked. Interviewer: “do you think that television had something to do with it too? They could stay home and watch something and not come out and watch you?” Well I think truthfully, in the end, yes, television. Television didn’t really put us out, but like you said, there were a lot of things they didn’t do during the war and that’s how the league started. 27:12 You know, if you talk to the one in Grand Rapids, and a young man interviewed her, she wrote an article that’s great about the beginning of it and how it started and stuff. Interviewer: “That’s why we’re here talking to you because this is part of the Veterans History Project and we’re talking to people who can tell us about different aspects of American life during wartime and things that happened because of it.” 9 �That’s what it was and that’s how it started because Wrigley wanted to do something because so many young men were taken away for war. Interviewer: “Now at the time that you were recruited to come and join this league, had you ever heard of the league before? Did you know there were women baseball players? 27:56 No, I never heard of it and that’s why that man came up to me in Newport and said, “hey Lou, how would you like to professional baseball?” “Yeah, I’d love it”, kidding with him and never knowing that man was serious and then he went to three others and I believed it. Interviewer: “At the time you joined the league or while you were in it, did you think of yourselves and doing something maybe that was new for women to be doing or significant or was it only later maybe?” I wouldn’t say that any of us did. I don’t care what team it was or ladies in that league that didn’t love the game and played for the love of the game. It’s something when you play softball all your life and all of a sudden this baseball comes out, but I think they play for the love of the game. 28:53 A lot of them, I can tell you when we worked at Bendix, never, never did we mentioned that we played and when the people found out, lord a mercy, they were shocked. Interviewer: “Did they find out about this before or after the movie came out?” Before the movie came out because they started putting write ups in the paper and that and they read all the write ups, but by the time I was working—maybe it was after the movie, I’m not sure. Interviewer: “When did you retire from Bendix?” In 1952. Interviewer: “From Bendix, not from the Blue Sox.” Well, I went to Bendix in 1952, after the league, after we finished the league. I went to Bendix on October 6, 1952 because we had a chance of getting in there and then I retired in 30, 30 and out. 29:56 Interviewer: “So you would have retired then in 1982.” In 1982. Interviewer: “Was it while you were still working at Bendix that they began to talk to you about having played in the league or was it after you retired that they were all paying attention to you?” 10 �It was after I retired from work. We worked at Bendix quite a while, six of us, maybe eight and none of us ever mentioned that we played ball. It’s just something—you’re proud, but I just never said anything. Interviewer: “Now, when you look back at it now, do you think that maybe you wound up doing something that was kind of important or that you were some of the first women professional athletes in professional team sports in this country?” 30:46 You know, because everybody is telling you that—Now, I’m giving you my own opinion, everybody is saying, do you? I just met a lady now and she said, “You mean you played professional ball?” She was going to a wedding here and she said, “Oh, I’ve got to congratulate you”, but I never thought I would see a women’s professional baseball team and never thought I’d be on one, never and it was really, really exciting, but you know you have to come home and do your wash and you lived in private homes, but the people were wonderful to me. 31:28 They would make cookies for us and different things and chicken. Interviewer: “When you think back to that time and stuff, are there particular events or things that happened to you that come back to you that you haven’t told me about here yet?” Well, I don’t know if you ever heard of—Oh God, I can’t remember his name—he use to come to the ball games to the football games in an iron lung—Snite, Fred Snite Jr., his father’s a multi millionaire and he use to bring Fred Snite to the football games in an ambulance and they had the doors fixed so when you opened the doors it was all mirrored so he could see the place. He’s in an iron lung, so we were coming home from Tampa, after—we were there playing a game after we had our spring training, and this man came up to our train, our particular train where most of the gals were, and he said, “Is there anybody in here that sings Irish songs?” 32:35 None of us knew who he was, but the girls said, “Lou, Lou”, so myself Jo Leonard and Slats Meier, I think, the three of us went. We were walking through the train, we didn’t know who he was and he said, “My son, my son would love to sing with you”, and I’m thinking a little kid like this, so we went back and as we were going through this one train, it was full of oranges and grapefruits and everything and we got to the last train and the last train had a bay window, the whole back of it was a bay window and then and they had a railing like this, it was gold, and there he was in the iron lung. 33:19 There was his wife and two daughters there and a nurse and I was—I’d never seen anything like that and they said to stand right beside of him, so I went over and I stood there and I said, “Are we going to sing some Irish song?”, and he gasped yes because he couldn’t breath and we sang songs until we were blue in the face. We just sang all the Irish songs we knew and we had a wonderful time and they came out with cookies and ice cream for us, the people there. That was an experience I’ll never forget and then his father came up and gave us oranges and asked us if we wanted oranges or grapefruit. 33:59 That was so touching and so thrilling and when I’d see him at the game, they would have that backed up and he could see both teams. 11 �Interviewer: “So, he would come to your games too? You mentioned he went to the Notre Dame football games.” No, he could never get that thing in our games. Interviewer: “But he watched the Notre Dame football games?” Every—and his father’s got a beautiful building there dedicated to him, beautiful, Fred Snite Jr. Interviewer: “How did your own career end? Did you just decide to stop playing in 1952 or did they tell you were about done?” Oh no, I had an application in for Bendix. Eddie DeLauria, who was the head of the league for one time, was the manager of our team at one time, he said, “Why don’t you put your name in for Bendix Lou? I think they’re going to be hiring”, so I went back home and I got a telegram saying, “come, there’s a job for you at Bendix”, and that’s how I got into Bendix, by playing ball and that’s another thing I thank god for every night is Bendix. Very good money, very good insurance. 35:29 Interviewer: “Now, to look back on the whole thing now, how do you think that whole time playing ball affected you? You told us a little bit about that. Did it make you a different person? Did it change the course your life took?” It never changed me a bit sir. I never ever had so many friends. When we had our first reunion just another ball player, Shirley Stavroff, we’d sit in a chair, not like this chair, and watch people come in and wonder who it was and we were hugging people we didn’t even know, we thought it was a ball player. When we had our first—I think it was sometime in the early eighties, I’m not sure just when it was, but it was in Chicago and it was just fabulous and we use to wait a couple of years, but now we have them every year. 36:22 I wish I could explain the feeling when you see different ones and they say, “Oh, Lou you’re getting thin or Lou you’re getting fat”, and stuff like that, but it’s true, I think you could ask any of them—I feel I could ask any of them if I needed something and I think they feel they could ask me if they needed something, if I had it or if they had it. Interviewer: “One other thing that one of the other players had mentioned to me about you and that was that you had helped some of them just learn some basic manners and learn how to follow the rules. Could you talk a little bit about that? What did you do for them?” 37:05 Well I—did you interview Sue Kidd? Interviewer: “Yes.” Well, Sue Kidd, I haven’t been down to her home, her father had the grocery store, the post office and everything right in Arkansas, Choctaw Arkansas, and she came into the league and she was only a kid and she would walk by or you’d give her something and she never said please, thank you, excuse me, or anything and I thought, “How strange, 12 �that girl’s so—“, and we got to be pretty good friends and I said to her, “I want to tell you something, It’s not going to cost you a cent, but I’m going to tell you something and you better listen to me”, and she would say, “Yeah Lou, yeah Lou”, and I said, “You should learn some manners because you’re such a nice person and a good person, manners would really show what kind of a lady you are”. I don’t really work with her, but when she started coming by me she would say, “Excuse me Lou “ and “thank you Lou”. She caught on and she’s very, very polite now. 38:14 Very polite and I was being interviewed someplace on the radio in Grand Rapids I think it was and she was too, the two of us, So here we were and I got to interviewing and talking to the lady and waiting for Sue and sue said, “You know, I didn’t even know how to say excuse me”, and I almost fell off the chair and she said, “That lady there taught me manners”, and I’m sitting on the chair thinking, “Oh Sue dear, please”, but she has never forgotten that and she has thanked me at different times and I told her, “I’m proud of you Sue”. She was just a hick from the sticks. When she said that I thought I would fall out of the chair, but we’re good friends, very good friends. 39:10 Interviewer. “Well, I knew to ask that because she told me about it, so I thought I would get your side.” She said that to you? Interviewer: “Yes, that’s why I’m asking for your side.” I almost didn’t tell you to be honest with you. I thought, “I don’t want to mention Sue like that”. Interviewer: “Sue’s very grateful that you did it and she put that on record herself, so that just supports what you had to say about what a good bunch of people this is.” Yeah, they were, they were and once and a while we would go over to the boat house , boat club I guess and it was right across the river from our ball park and some would play the slot machine and we’d all jitterbug and have a swell time, but I really feel the manager knew it, but we always had to get back at a certain time you know. I think he really knew it, but I don’t know for sure. There were a lot of little things we did do, we weren’t “holier than thow” you know like picking up the gals at the hotel so they could come to the boat club and dance or have a few beers or something you know. There really wasn’t much drinking in the league. Not much that I know of, of course the team I was on there wasn’t. Let me see if there’s any other interesting—It was just—like now, not because I’m being interviewed, I don’t care if you don’t ever have to use it, to be honest with you that isn’t the point. I think it’s nice of you to ask me and it was nice of Dolly to tell you to ask me, but really makes me feel good to tell you what a wonderful league it was and it’s still a league to all of us you know. 41:06 Interviewer: “We’ve spent a fair amount of time with your group here just this week doing quite a few interviews and we have to agree with you that it really is a 13 �remarkable bunch of people, so I would like to thank you for taking a little time today to come and tell me about it.” Well, thank you for asking me, but I’m telling you and you found out for yourself, some of them are great, great people. 41:30 Interviewer: “that’s right.” 14 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-58)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Sports for women World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Oral history Baseball players--Minnesota Baseball players--Indiana Baseball players--Wisconsin Baseball players--Michigan Baseball players--Illinois Baseball for women--United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-10-02 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58_LArnold Title A name given to the resource Arnold, Lou (Interview transcript and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Arnold, Lou Description An account of the resource Lou Arnold was born in Pawtucket, Rhode Island in 1925. She grew up in Pawtucket and played softball with her brother and eventually joined an amateur league where she played for a few teams. After playing a game with a rival team in Newport she was invited to play for the All American League. Arnold played from 1948 to 1952 for the South Bend Blue Sox as a pitcher. One of her baseball highlights came during the 1951 season when she pitched a ten and two record and led her team to the championship that year. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Baseball for women--United States Baseball Sports for women World War, 1939-1945 Baseball players--Indiana Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-09-25 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d477cace4c921d4510e4efadbd528cda.mp4 3e5ddfe5e742e923d514965f803035fb https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bce3383305a62b5fcf9e0bcc37987aca.pdf bd2cb2d49f8b6915351d41814a15ba1e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University All American Girls Professional Baseball League Veterans History Project Interviewee’s Name: Isabel (Lefty) Alvarez Length of Interview: (00:37:11) Interviewed by: James Smither, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, June 30, 2010 Interviewer: “Can you begin to tell us a little bit about your background? To start with, where and when were you born?” I was born on October 31, 1933 in Havana, Cuba. Interviewer: “What did your father do for a living or what did your family do?” Well, my father was in the marines and then in the police force for fifty years. Interviewer: “So he had a regular job. How many children were in your family?” My brother and myself only Interviewer: “When did you start playing baseball?” I think very—my mother was all sport orientated and she knew it was healthy, so baseball they played in the street you know and she let me do the sports, but she didn’t let me do any other things. 1:14 Interviewer: “What other sports did you play besides baseball?” Fencing, soccer and baseball most of all Interviewer: “Now, when you played these games, were you mostly playing with boys or were there a lot of girls too?” In the fencing there was women, it was well organized and directing the fencing was people from the government. Interviewer: “Did you have fencing tournaments and did you travel around?” At the time, in fifty-- it was the time, I can’t remember the exact day, but we were going to go to Europe for fencing and I had to make up my mind if I wanted to go to Europe or come to the United States to play baseball, so I decided to come here and I would like to know the date, I can’t remember. 2:09 Interviewer: “Well, when did you first have contact with American baseball? When did you start playing either with or against American teams?” 1 �In 1947 when they went to spring training and we had an exhibition game and to let you know, I pitched that one game. Interviewer: “How old were you when you pitched in this exhibition game?” I was fourteen years old. In 1947, now I figure it out. Interviewer: “If it was in the spring of 1947, you were probably thirteen.” Thirteen, I can’t imagine. Interviewer: “How did you do?” I did very well, that’s what my mother told me. She was at the game and that’s the first time my mother saw me play. 2:54 Interviewer: “How did they get the team together? How did you wind up on the team?” The owner of our Cuban team was a—he was the owner of a wine distillery and he had a lot of connects with tourists and how he get to know Max Carey and the commissioners of the league, I don’t have any idea, but he had a lot of good connections and a lot of money and we had a place to go and train. I love it you know because we even stayed on weekends and had food and everything. 3:33 Interviewer: “And do you remember at all what happened in that game that you pitched against the Americans? Your mother told you, you did well.” Well that’s when they decided they were going to bring four Cubans to the United States and the President came to my house to my mother and said I wasn’t old enough to come to the United States, you had to be fifteen, so I waited until 1949, I was fifteen then. Interviewer: “You really knew from 1947, that you wanted to go.” Yeah, the manager said, the Cuban manager, “you’re going to be next”, so I knew and it was anxiety you know. 4:16 Interviewer: “So then when it gets to 1949 and you’re going to go to America, how did they get you over to the states and where did you go first? Do you remember about going over?” The first time I step here in the United States to go to play for—it was Chicago and I— coming fresh from Cuba at that age, I didn’t even know I was in Chicago. Interviewer: “How did you get from Cuba up to Chicago?” By—how did I get over there? A plane to Miami and then drive to Chicago. Interviewer: “You drove to Chicago?” 2 �No, I didn’t drive—how did I get over there? That’s a funny thing, how did I get to Chicago?” 5:08 We fly, we had to fly. We flew yes. Interviewer: “Now, were you all by yourself when you did this or did you have someone with you?” There were three Cubans with me. Interviewer: “So, a group of four Cubans go together?” Yes, together, that’s how we first started in 1949. Interviewer: “So, the time you came to the United States did you speak any English yet?” Not very much, my mother was tutoring me with words and works and everything because my mother was right, to learn English. There was a professor in Cuba, a neighbor, he was supposed to learn, to teach English and my mother sent me to him for a week . He thought I could learn English in a week. I don’t know, so then my brother, when I came over here he said, “well you knew English when you came to the United States”, and I said, “I did not know the English much in a week”. 6:09 Interviewer: “What happened once you got to Chicago? What did they do with you then? What did you do?” They assigned us to a team and I was assigned to the Chicago Colleens. Interviewer: “Did the team make any provision to help—were you the only Cuban player they had or did all of you go together?” No, there were four of us. Interviewer: “All four of you to one team?” Yes, two, there were two teams, the Chicago Colleens and the Springfield Sallies. Interviewer: “So two went to each team?” Yes. 6:45 Interviewer: “You had somebody else there from Cuba.” Yes, those years, Madelia, the older one. She was the one who helped a lot with the language because she knew pretty good English when she came. Interviewer: “How well did you get along with the other players on the team?” 3 �I had no problem with getting along because I was happy to be here and I knew that I had to get along because my mother was right there and she wanted me here in the United States, so I better—I don’t know, it was something natural. I was trained to like the United States from my mother and I think it’s good. 7:36 Interviewer: “At this point you were a pitcher?” Yes Interviewer: “Primarily pitching, all right, now was the game you were playing here any different from the game you played in Cuba in terms of the style of play or the equipment used or anything like that?” The ball was a little bigger, but I don’t really—I got adjusted so well, I feel, that I don’t have any knowledge about it that I had trouble because I was here to play ball and that’s what my mother wanted me to do. Interviewer: “Ok, and how successful were you as a player at that point? Did you Pitch well and win games?” Well, I don’t –all those years back, they got some scores—I got some baseball cards, but my records, they don’t show that I was a real, real great ball player. 8:41 I don’t consider myself that great. Interviewer: “How long did you play in the American baseball league?” Six years. Interviewer: “Six years, you stayed in the league all that time?” Yeah Interviewer: “So you were apparently good enough to do that?” Right, and I had the chance when the Colleens folded, I had a chance to go to Fort Wayne, they picked me up to go to Fort Wayne and that’s the biggest opportunity I had. Interviewer: “Did you like playing in Fort Wayne better than Chicago or was it about the same?” Well, we were in a group and we would ride the bus all together, everything was all together, but when I went to Fort Wayne I was just on my own and it took me a little longer time to start getting use to it, but it wasn’t anything that I disliked. You’re just in a strange place all by yourself. After coming from a group and going to Fort Wayne you didn’t know anybody and they were older. The girls in Fort Wayne that were playing, they were older than I was. 9:59 I got along and I think I did very well. 4 �Interviewer: “Tell me a little bit about the experience of just kind of traveling around with these teams. When you’re going to play how did you get from one game to another? What did they do? Did they put you on busses or trains?” Yes, busses and oh yeah, we had more fun and I sat in the front, in the front seat, so I could have the big window in the bus and then I can read the signs where we were going and the manager was sitting in the other side and he was a mixed Cuban. I would read a sign and he helped me to pronounce it better. 10:46 Interviewer: “Who was your manager at this time? What was his mane?” Mitch Skupien, I might not be pronouncing it right, but he was really, really nice. Interviewer: “When you were playing at these games, did you get a lot of fans who would come to the games in Fort Wayne or Chicago?” Yes, and I always had a lot of good—a lot of fans, they liked me, but everybody was always nice. I have a lot of respect for the people here, but I was brought up that way. Interviewer: “The league had a lot of rules for how the players were to dress and act and all that kind of thing, was it easy for you to follow those rules or did it not make any sense to you?” 11:48 No, No, it was because I was raised differently. My mother you know, different, and I didn’t, my mother always pampered me a lot with lipstick and combing my hair and my dress, she just couldn’t let me out of the house without being dressed nice. I didn’t go to school there because the schooling was in 1943 and by 1949 they didn’t have those strict rules. 12:26 Interviewer: “So it wasn’t quite the same as it was when the league started by the time you got there?” It was different it was just different. Interviewer: “Were there particular friends you had on these teams or people you got to know really well and stand out in your memory?” Yes, I had a—it was more they get close to the Cubans you know and we always had that, the players being very, very nice. I had pretty good luck in that and we had fun because my English was broken and they laughed and I laughed with them because it was funny. 13:13 Interviewer: “Ok now, when you think back about the time that you spent in this league playing these games, are there particular events or things that kind of stand out in your mind or that come back to you a lot, good things that happened to you at certain points along the way?” 5 �On the touring or on the whole? Interviewer: “Anything about that whether it’s on the tour or in a game or off the field.” Well, I mean what—I’ve been lucky, I don’t know if it’s the right word because— Interviewer: “If you hadn’t had the opportunity to come to the United States to play baseball, what do you think you might have done over that period of six years instead?” You mean in Cuba? Interviewer: “If you were back in Cuba, yes.” Oh my dear, I don’t know, my mother would have been crying, but she would cry because that was her ideal, the baseball, she loved baseball. She use to—in our house she was one of those little old ladies and she would sit there and listen to the Cubans baseball playing. She was, there was a team names Allemandes, their blue, and she would light a little candle, she loved baseball. 14:38 Interviewer: “That really was her dream, that you go and do this?” Exactly, she probably would have liked to play ball herself. Interviewer: “Did she ever come up to the United States to see you play?” Never Interviewer: “Did anyone from your family come up at any point?” No, they never could because at the time it was hard to sponsor anybody. I couldn’t sponsor anybody, so it was rough. Interviewer: “So there were immigration rules and things that made it difficult to come up?” You had to have a sponsor and I was very lucky in 1953 when Mr. And Mrs. Blee, they—I met them through their daughter at a ball game. I met them, they took me home, to their home, they gave me a room and then, because they knew I was a Daisy then you see, and anybody who was a Daisy player, they had to be good people, and more or less from Cuba. 15:37 Interviewer: “So, what kind of living—did you normally live with people’s families in their home?” Yes Interviewer: “Did you do that in Chicago too?” No, we stayed in hotels. 6 �Interviewer: “So, when you got to Fort Wayne you would go and live in people’s houses?” Yes Interviewer: “So these people essentially sponsored you so you could stay in the states?” No, this was after the first year when I went to Fort Wayne in 1951. I already knew who I was going to live with, I think the league set it up. The fans would take ball players in, so I went to—with them, and this time in 1951 and in 1954 I went back to Fort Wayne and where was I staying in 1954? 16:24 Interviewer: “I was asking, how did you wind up staying in the United States?” Oh, yes Interviewer: “You talked about people sponsoring you.” In 1951, when I came on, I was rooming there for doing baseball and then in—I met someone at a ball game for some reason. It’s a long story and I don’t know if you want to hear that? Interviewer: “We’re interested, yes.” I was at the ball park watching some—I wasn’t playing ball, and there were some kids playing softball and I went to the ball park to watch them, so I was sitting there, I was very fresh from Cuba and I even had a little pocket with money that my mother always said to put it in between your bra, and for some reason, I have some pictures, and I knew I was a Daisy, so then that time I had some pictures with me and the kids were all crazy about looking at my pictures and suddenly I don’t know where everything was. 17:31 My money, the money that I had, I must have—I don’t know and the pictures, I couldn’t find nothing I was—so one of the girls from the ball team, she was the one that helped me, she called the FBI and we were going to call the police to see if these kids have taken the money and run, and guess what? That morning that was finding the police, the FBI she said and I went to the ballpark and you know I found everything, the pictures and the money, that little pocket. Somebody get scared and throw it around and I was very lucky because I had about a hundred dollars and then she took me home to meet her mom and dad and that was it. They give me a home and they applied for citizenship in 1953 because they knew I was—I was kind of lost really that year, it was in 1952. 18:47 I went there and I stayed with them and became friends and this friend, it wasn’t a friend, she was the one who helped me, she went into college and I stayed with her mom and dad and I was sleeping in her room upstairs while she was in college, so I never saw this friend, I never saw her very much. 19:16 Interviewer: “Now, the league shuts down after the 1954 season, so when that came to an end what did you do at that point?” 7 �See, in 1953, Mr. and Mrs. Blee, I applied for citizenship paper, so in 1954 I had my residence, so I didn’t go back home. Interviewer: “What did you do for a living at that point?” They give me a job I was a carhop. They call in the drive-in and he says, “I got a girl here from Cuba and she don’t speak English, but she needs a job”, and Don Holt said, “bring her over “, so they drove me in there and they give me a job and I could hardly even speak English, but they were helping me. I use to go and take the orders you know you put a tray in and sometimes I miss the tray drops and sometimes kids they laugh at you. 20:25 I go inside, take the order and go inside and call it and the manager he saw me coming and he grabbed my slip and said, “I can read it faster than you can call it”, but you know what, I never got mad at him, I thought he was great, he was a good manager. 20:50 Interviewer: “How long did you wind up working there?” I don’t know how many years, but I worked quite a bit until. Right, and then I went to—I worked on the 401 Tailoring Co. also, so I really worked all through my whole after baseball. I worked and I always had a job. Years ago you know they helped me to go and get a job, they aren’t going to support you. Interviewer: “If you look over that whole experience you had playing baseball etc. How do you think that wound up affecting you? You talked a little bit about how, and obviously your life was different because you came to America and stayed, did it change you as a person? Did you otherwise?” 21:44 No, it probably made me better because I was raised that America was a good country and you had that in your mind to respect. Interviewer: “Have you paid much attention to what has happened with women’s sports in this country over the past fifty years? You see more women on television doing different things, basketball and that kind of thing.” It is great and I think your mother and father have a lot to do with getting their son’s and daughters to start playing sports and supporting them, but the mother has to have the incentive like my mother did otherwise I wouldn’t be here because my dad said, “why are you going to go over there where it’s cold?” It would have broke my heart if they would never take me to come to the United States. 22:53 Interviewer: “Aside from just being on your own, were there aspects of just adjusting to living in the states that were a problem? Did the cold bother you or anything like that?” No, I never did complain about the weather. As a matter of fact, I didn’t complain about much of anything because I was here best and complain, ‘holly cow”. I never was that type either, but I made a lot of friendships and that’s one thing and I don’t know I’m just 8 �myself, but my friends have made my world. In Fort Wayne too, I don’t have no enemies I don’t think so. 23:53 Interviewer: “I can see why you wouldn’t. Do you have anything else that you would like to put on the record here before we close out the interview? Anything that you would like to say about the league itself or playing?” Well, I am so thankful and I have been very lucky because of all the Cubans that came. I believe that I—let me see how I’m going to say it, I just, the appreciation that I have being here. 24:48 Interviewer: “Now, were their other Cubans that came and joined the league after you did? Did you meet anybody new or were you the last group?” Yes, and there were some that came before earlier. Interviewer: “Alright, there is something I did want to get in here and ask you a little and that’s, did you normally have a spring training session of some kind? What did you do to prepare for a season from one year to the next?” When I use to go back home or here? Interviewer: “No, from one year to the next, while you were playing baseball, did you go home in the winter?” Yes Interviewer: “Ok, you go home in the winter and then you?” From 1949 until 1953 I use to go back home. Interviewer: “When you came back, did you do spring training games before the regular season?” 25:53 Yes, just a spring training practicing. Interviewer: “Where did you do the practicing? Was that wherever your team was based?” Yes, and when I was in Chicago, in the morning we use to practice and on tour, the touring team, we practiced the same and it’s a mostly in the morning we did our practicing. Interviewer: “Was it 1949 and 1950 that your team was touring?” Right, we did a lot of practice. Interviewer: “When you were touring would you play just any local teams from any community you went to?” 9 �We had two teams, the Springfield Sallies and Chicago. Interviewer: “They just toured together and played in different places.” Yes, and they would advertise in the paper that we were in town and we had the tryouts for the one, just like in the movie you know. 26:50 Interviewer: “As you were touring, how far away from Chicago did you get when you were traveling? Did you just stay in the Midwest mostly?” Yes, let me see, about—I had that written down how many places we went. I had a map and right now I just can’t tell you because I—sorry. Interviewer: “But there were a lot of different towns, not just two or three places?” Oh yes Interviewer: “Were they in a few hours of each other or did you have really long trips sometimes?” We played and we also left that same night sometimes. The traveling was heavy you know and the many towns in the states; we had quite a few, close to fifty, fifty-six I think. 27:54 Interviewer: “You said you would hold tryouts when you went to these different places?” Yes and there was one lady, one of the girls, she’s in our team and she’s here today. We pick her up in Cuba for Arkansas and she was a good pitcher and she came with us and she had to leave home and she was--said English and we became friends because she was sitting in the same seat. Can you imagine what she thought, I can’t speak English and she was from Arkansas. We got along fine and we’re still good friends now and she stayed in the league and she is really the only one we picked up that I can remember. Interviewer: “Did they recruit women to play? At some point they had to through junior teams or things like that. Did they recruit people for those teams or just—“ To play for us, yeah they had three and they had to be pretty good and she was, she was a good pitcher and we always need pitchers. Interviewer: “As far as your own playing career goes, you were a pitcher. Now, were you a starting pitcher or were you a relief pitcher or both?” 29:32 I was a starter and relief both ways. Interviewer: “And did you play any other positions?” Outfielder. 10 �Interviewer: “So it wasn’t like the baseball teams today where the pitcher only pitches and is sitting on the bench the rest of the time?” No, no and also, the pitcher never get in hitting practice very much. I can’t imagine that, so supposedly when you run the bases then they bring you your coat and that was real. The pitcher was given great care and the chaperone would message your arm. 30:24 Interviewer: “So they did try to do what they could at that point to make sure you didn’t blow out your arm or anything else like that?” Right, they were very, very good. Interviewer: “Now, did you ever get hurt while you were playing? Did you ever have an injury that kept you out of the games?” Yes, in 1954 in Fort Wayne. Interviewer: “What happened?” Trying to second base and I twisted my leg, so that was it. I went to the hospital and they put me in traction and they left me in traction for one month, can you imagine this? Interviewer: “That’s what they did back in those days.” I lay there and I didn’t know nothing you know, so I never went back in the game because I had to have surgery. 31:10 Interviewer: “Now, when you heard about the league shutting down, were you sad about that or were you planning on going back?” No, I wasn’t going back, I was just here, I was glad I had my residence. If I never would have met those people I would be back in Cuba yet. My mother would cry then, but I’m so thankful, you just can’t imagine how lucky I’ve been. I think I have been, of all the Cubans and I’m not bragging, I have been the lucky one. Interviewer: “It certainly sounds like you had a good time and you tell good stories and thank you for coming in and talking to me today.” Thank you thank you. 32:05 11 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-58)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Sports for women World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Oral history Baseball players--Minnesota Baseball players--Indiana Baseball players--Wisconsin Baseball players--Michigan Baseball players--Illinois Baseball for women--United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-10-02 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58_IAlvarez Title A name given to the resource Alvarez, Isabel "Lefty" (Interview transcript and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Alvarez, Isabel Description An account of the resource Isabel Alvarez was born in Havana, Cuba in 1933. She grew up in Havana and played baseball with the neighborhood kids and was also involved with other sports. In 1947, she pitched her first exhibition game in American baseball and was picked by the All American League and sponsored to come to the United States with three other Cubans to play baseball in 1949. She played pitcher for the Chicago Colleens from 1949 through the 1950 season. When the Chicago Colleens folded, she went on to play for the Fort Wayne Daisies during the 1951 and 1954 seasons. Upon getting her citizenship in 1953 she stayed in the United States permanently. During her six-year baseball career she also played utility outfielder and also played briefly with the Battle Creek Belles (1951); Kalamazoo Lassies (1953); and the Grand Rapids Chicks (1954). Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Baseball for women--United States Baseball Sports for women Baseball players--Illinois World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Baseball players--Indiana Baseball players--Michigan Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-09-26 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6ed3e8a5c03803c435a418f3dae4d782.mp4 1805295fd1164da45033b7b401d840f4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/518c67bc70e7fcbeea0ad8d90535c8e5.pdf 3d90ff8960f8fa1b36d20940bb63107e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interviewee’s Name: Sophie Kurys Name of War: All American Girls Professional Baseball League Length of Interview: (00:49:12) Interviewed by: Gordon Olson, Saturday September 26, 2009 Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, April 6, 2010 Interviewer: “Sophie, before we begin can you tell me a little bit about the earlier days? When and where were you born, your parents and that sort of thing.” I was born in Flint, Michigan on May 14, 1925. My dads name was Anthony Kurys and my mother was Antoinette Pogeska and she was from Poland. Interviewer: “What nationality is Kurys?” Kurys is Ukrainian. Interviewer: “Ukrainian, ok.” One person said I was a Uka Polock. Interviewer: “It works for me. It works-- it works. You grew up on the Flint area?” I grew up in Flint, Michigan. Interviewer: “How did you get started playing ball? Did you have older brothers?” I had two brothers and a sister and we lived across the street from an empty lot and so the kids in our neighborhood—we had one ball and one bat and we would knock the stuffing out of that and re-sew it and keep knocking the stuffing out of it. That’s all we ever had, but it was a wonderful time in my life. When we played in that empty lot it was a salvation because there were a poor bunch of Polish families in that area. Interviewer: “If you were in Flint, were they working in the auto industry?” Well it was in Flint, Michigan and they built Buicks and they had Chevy and that’s where most of the people worked. My dad worked at the Buick factory and of course we all went to the catholic school. 2:35 Interviewer: “When did you start playing any form of organized ball?” Well, as I got older—when I was about thirteen or fourteen, then I played in the city leagues and I played there until I was seventeen and then when I was seventeen years old Wrigley sent scouts all over the United States and Canada and I wasn’t even home when I was scouted. I mean the girls called me up and they finally tracked me down and said, 1 �“Are you going to the tryouts?” I said, “what tryouts?” They said, “Well there’s a scout here from Chicago and Wrigley is forming a women’s team because a lot of the guys are already signing up and going into the army and he is afraid he’ll have an empty ball park. 3:35 ” And I said, “tryout? You know it’s thirty two degrees out there and we got snow flurries” and they said, “we’re going to tryout in a gym” and I said, “In a gym?” They said, “Yeah, Burstyn Field House”, and I said, “Well, that’s near my home and that’ll be ok”, so they picked me up and I had on a skirt and sweater and like in the movie—they had rain and we had snow flurries so, our windows were protected, so I didn’t break any and he hit us grounders and we played catch and batted and he picked three of us, but the one girl was married and the other girl was taking care of her elderly parents, so I was the only one that left from Flint. 4:24 Interviewer: “Did you leave right away after the tryouts?” Ya, well, I left in May and they sent me a Pullman ticket and I had never been on a train, I had never been out of Michigan. I didn’t know what the heck was going on. I thought well, ok and the train was a Grand Trunk and I had the lower berth and it was bumpy going on this train and when I got into Chicago it was just pouring rain, so they said what to do, “get a cab and go to the hotel and we’ll reimburse you”, and when I got there and got into the room I thought, “what am I doing here, I could play ball in Flint”, I was so homesick I wanted to go home and they said, “wait a minute, wait a minute, who are you rooming with?” I said, “I don’t know”, and they said—Johnny Gottselig, he was Canadian and being I was only seventeen he would get me with women who were older and kind of baby me. 5:45 that wasn’t really necessary because the next day the sun was shinning and I was ready to go and everything was ok. Everything came out great Interviewer: “The sun came out and everything looked better. Johnny Gottselig was the scout who---?” Johnny Gottselig was a Hockey player and wasn’t too well versed and in spite of it we won the championship. Interviewer: “He was your manager and he was the one who did the try out.” We had chaperones and that was part of the deal because a lot of the women wouldn’t--my dad said, “no way was I going”, but my mother said, “she loves to play, let her go”. 6:22 Interviewer: “So it was your mother who –“ She was the best and she was my strongest supporter. My sister Emma would say, “why doesn’t Sophie have to do the dishes?” My mother would say, “never mind, let Sophie play”. Interviewer: “Bless her heart.” My mother was great. She was the best. 2 �Interviewer: “So you got to Chicago and then you?” We had spring training at Wrigley Field and it got cut short because it was raining pretty hard, so they thought they would send us to our respective home towns and get acquainted there and maybe the weather would be better, so we were met by a contingent of—I remember a little Rabbi that was in—they met us and we were housed with different families. 7:15 Interviewer: “Which town did you go to?” I went to the Thielands, they were—they had three boys and of course they told me how to play ball and never take the first pitch and all that stuff. Interviewer: “The first town that you went to and that you played for?” Racine, I played with Racine all the time. I played from 1943 to 1950 in Racine and then I went to Battle Creek for about a month. Interviewer: “So they sent you off to Racine, you had a little bit of spring training, but not a whole lot.” We had spring training, but not too much because the weather was just as bad there. We were only sixty miles from Chicago, so there wasn’t any improvement. 7:59 The people were great and they first came out to see—out of curiosity to begin with and then when they came out and saw that we could really play then they came out in droves and we did real well. They had sixty-five hundred people at the playoffs. 8:22 Interviewer: “Wow, that’s a big crowd. Now when you had been playing back in Flint, that was softball right?” Yes, they made us steal bases and they changed the length of the bases and that and Dottie, she could almost throw a side arm, which is acceptable. Interviewer: “You started in 1943 at the beginning of the league.” Yes. Interviewer: “And it looked a lot like softball yet at the beginning.” It wasn’t really softball and it wasn’t really baseball. It was a combination of the two and it worked out beautifully. 9:02 Interviewer: “Except they permitted base stealing and that’s the strength of your game. Let’s jump right in and talk about stealing basis.” You know, even in the big leagues the pitchers have a little bit of—you know they might open their shoulder a little bit or they might have their feet a little bit closer to first base. 3 �They always have a little bit of something that you can pick up on them and your first thing is that the first step is the most important step and if you get that you’re on your way and as I said, Ricky Henderson was a great base stealer, he was cocky as the devil, but he was a good ball player and they would always compare me to him and it was silly because he was a far better player than I was. 10:04 Interviewer: “You stole an awful lot of bases though, so you watch the pitcher and you look for?” They might open up a shoulder a little bit when they’re going to throw and they always got a little something that you can pick up on and body language is very important and you pick up on those things. Some of the pitchers, if they didn’t pay any attention to me, I could steal their pants off because you know if you kept throwing at me and kept throwing to first base you could tire me out, but if you didn’t pay attention I could really go. 10:43 Interviewer: “And when you start your first step is it a crossover step?” The first step is the most important step in stealing. Interviewer: “Did you use like a crossover step? Left foot cross over and go?” Yes, you know this league was just fantastic and nobody paid attention to it for the longest time and then we had a reunion in Fort Wayne and all of a sudden Penny Marshall saw that documentary. They had a documentary on PBS and she saw that and it clicked in her head that it would make a great baseball movie and by golly it did and she made tons of money on that movie and they still show it. 11:35 I still see it every now and again. Interviewer: “It’s very popular and it changed a lot of things. I want to focus on your career now though. Base stealing gets you from first to second, but as they say, you cannot steal first base. You were a leadoff hitter?” Yes that was it—my job was primarily to get on base and if I would get on base our good hitters would bring me in and they said, “Well, if Sophie gets on first, she’s on third”, so that worked out pretty good. Interviewer: “You would get on and immediately figure—“ You know, a lot of times of they didn’t pay attention to me on second base; I could steal third at will. It’s easier to steal third than second. 12:26 Interviewer: “The pitcher has a harder time watching you.” That’s right. Interviewer: “There’s no baseman on the base to hold you close.” That’s exactly right. 4 �Interviewer: “And off you go. Now, that’s a lot of running and sliding into those bases all the time—“ I had strawberry upon strawberry and even today I get up sometimes in the morning and this bothers me a little bit, but not bad. Interviewer: “So you still have some of the residual effects.” Right, right. Interviewer: “A strawberry just rubs the skin raw.” Yea and when it’s sore it leaks, but our chaperone was pretty sharp and she made a donut affair and put it across the strawberry so it wouldn’t leak on my clothes because if it did it would stick to you and you would have to pull that off and you’d be in agony. 13:29 She put that donut affair so it wouldn’t touch because it would leak. Interviewer: “I got to ask you—you’re standing on first base and maybe you got a walk, you walked quite a bit, but you could hit, you were a hitter too. Let’s say you get to first base and you stole three bases last night and you got a strawberry that won’t quit already, did it ever occur to you while standing on first, “well maybe I’ll just stay here”?” No, no never, never, we never quit. You could get strawberry upon strawberry and you could go on the other side and you’d get another strawberry, but I’ll tell you these women were far tougher than these guys are playing ball nowadays. 14:13 You know, I asked somebody, “what is a spasm that some of these guy get? What do they get in their back that they can’t play?” I still don’t know what they mean by a spasm. Interviewer: “Did you miss many games when you were playing?” Yea, I had a very bad sprained ankle and couldn’t play, but I was there yelling come on, come on, come on. Interviewer: “Most of the time you played every game.” Yes, I played one hundred and twenty-five games and some of those guys that make twenty-five million don’t even play a hundred and thirty games. 14:54 Interviewer: “You’re right, they have to rest every day.” You know Al Kaline was one of the guys that said after they game him a hundred thousand dollars, “I don’t deserve a hundred thousand dollars”. Now that’s my kind of a guy. Interviewer: “A lot of people in Michigan think he’s as good as it gets.” 5 �He was one of the best. I met Hal Newhouser in San Francisco at a card show and he said, “Sophie you know I won twenty games and you know what kind of a raise they game me?” I said, “no”, and he said, “five hundred dollars”, and I said, “God, if you were playing today you would make twenty million a year.” 15:38 You can’t say enough there. Interviewer: “What about the pay you got? Do you remember what you got paid?” We started out with fifty and the highest paid would be one hundred and twenty-five and later on when I played in Battle Creek, they paid me three hundred and twenty-five a week and then I got a bonus for being the most valuable player in 1946. Interviewer: “What was the bonus?” A thousand bucks. Interviewer: “Did you send money home?” 16:12 Yes, always. Interviewer: “Your family needed some help?” Yes, they were rough times and I always sent money home. Interviewer: “So you played right through the war years?” Yes and you know when we traveled we didn’t have luxury with these guys and those were war years and we often sat in the isle of a train on top of our suitcases and finally they gave us one of the rickety buses and they couldn’t even find a bus like that for the movie. And you now when we had to stop for some of the girls, a pit stop, the girls, if we had shorts on, we had to put dresses or skirts on because we never could be seen in public in shorts or slacks. 17:13 We always had a skirt and a dress to go into a restaurant or a pit stop. Interviewer: “Is it also true that you had to have lipstick on?” Yes, you know the one thing we did put on one of our chaperones, because Johnny Gottselig was always telling us what the hockey players did, so we said to this Canadian chaperone, “do you have the key to the coaches box?” And she said, “well no” and we said, “we can’t play until we get the key to the coaches box” and she said, “well where can I get it?” and I said, “well you got to go to Johnny, you got to go to our manager and get the key because we can’t start playing”. 18:00 She didn’t know anything about baseball. “You don’t have any lipstick on” and we looked at her and said, “are you for real?” That was one of the things we pulled on them. Interviewer: “Did she ever find the key to the coaches box?” No. Johnny looked at her like she was crazy and said, “Aw, they’re pulling your leg”. 6 �Interviewer: “You got to have fun doing this that’s for sure.” We had a lot of fun. One thing about our league is we made wonderful friendships that have lasted forever. You know we’ve known some of these girls for sixty years. 18:34 They’re all great. Interviewer: “That first year, you stayed with a family? Were you the only one?” I had a roommate and they had three boys in that family and naturally they gave us tips and tell you this and tell you that and we would say, “you know, we have a manager and we have to pay attention to the manager”. 19:03 Interviewer: “So you continue—you were seventeen years old when you started and you continued to learn more and more about the game.” Oh yes, of course I’ll tell you—these guys that are playing ball right now, I told one of the girls—you know they have and E for errors, and I said, “they have an ME which means mental errors, these guys they throw home when they should be throwing to second base. The ball goes to the short stop, he’s on second and he runs to third and he gets thrown out and that’s a mental mistake and they shouldn’t allow them to get away with that stuff. 19:39 They better take them back to spring training school and teach them all over again. Don Zimmer said, “you’d be surprised how many games are lost on the bases”, and that’s very true. Interviewer: “Bonehead base running.” Right—dumb, dumb. Interviewer: “You’re not a large person, were you a singles hitter, line drives?” No, I could hit to all fields, whichever they pitch to ya. They always try to get me out on the outside pitch, but I hit to all fields. Interviewer: “You take that one to right?” Yeah, sometimes I would try to push one to second to get on base. 20:24 I tried everything. Interviewer: “Did you bunt? Did you bunt to get on base?” Yeah, once and a while. You always have to do something different. Interviewer: “I saw in the record books you have home runs by your name. Were those—“ 7 �Yeah, the one thing—they made the big mistake was we didn’t have the snow fences like you have in the—those home runs were inside the park home runs. Seven home runs inside the park, that’s crazy. 20:52 Interviewer: “That’s a lot.” It’s what we said—we should have had snow fences where they would be two thirty or two fifty and where you could really hit a home run and jog around the bases. Interviewer: “They didn’t do that.” No, that was the one big mistake that they made Interviewer: “Were there some women in the league who hit real home runs, over the fence home runs though?” The only ones that you could hit in the stands were Grand Rapids if you were a left handed hitter, but the rest of it—they were all inside the park home runs, which is crazy. 21:29 Interviewer: “Fun to watch.” They were running and they were trying to get the ball to get them out. Interviewer: “You were obviously very fast. Did you win races as a youngster running against boys?” I ran races on the playgrounds, fifty-yard dash or the hundred-yard dash and that was fun. Interviewer: “You ran faster than the boys?” Yeah, you know I won the decathlon when I was a youngster and you had to have five thousand points and I had four thousand six hundred and ninety one and I threw the length of the field with a baseball and I got a thousand points for a baseball throw. 22:11 Interviewer: “That put you over the top.” Well I had a—at that time, when I was young, I had a strong arm. When you’re young you can do a lot of crazy things. Interviewer: “And you think you can do even more.” I don’t think I could do that now. Interviewer: “Ok, you were an infielder?” 8 �Yeah, I played second base and in Michigan I played third and short and then I played the outfield the first few days because Clara Schillace was our— one of the four women they picked and she was out center fielder, but she was a school teacher and she could only come in the week-end because she was still teaching school, so I played the outfield the first few days and then one of the girls got hurt and I played second and she never got it back 23:06 Interviewer: “when you started playing second base, at that time did you know how to make the pivot play? You had to learn it.” Yeah, I could make it because I played shortstop—it was easy. Interviewer: “You knew what had to be done.” I knew what had to be done, yes. Interviewer: “But most of your career you played second base?” Yes. Interviewer: “I’ve always thought that one of the reasons you want a second baseman with a strong arm for the double play?” Yes, that first card show shows that—that was an action shot where I played. That was actually throwing a double play ball. Interviewer: “But you also have to go out and get the ball from the outfielders and make some strong relay throws.” 23:54 Yeah, I played, I think, eight games and didn’t make an error. Interviewer: “That’s good, so you’re an all around ball player. You get a lot of recognition for your base stealing.” I can’t say all those things because it makes me feel funny to say that. Interviewer: “I’ll say them, because first of all, as I said, you’ve got to be a hitter and you’ve got to have a good eye at least, that’s the key to being a leadoff hitter.” 24:27 You know, I can’t repeat that enough times to say how wonderful that league was for all of us. Here we were kids of seventeen and now we’re in our eighties and we’re still getting along and having a lot of fun with each other, which is fantastic. Interviewer: “That’s great. Who was the toughest pitcher you faced?” Annabelle Lee, she was a left-hander. She had a kind of special—you know, the rotation of the ball. I don’t think she fanned me, but I didn’t hit as well against her as I did other people. 25:14 Interviewer: “The ball moved a little?” 9 �Yeah, the movement in there and you know hitting is timing and she would throw my timing off. She had a crazy slow pitch and then she would throw the fast and it’s timing, everything is timing and she disrupted my timing. Interviewer: “Now, I have a question about pitchers. Was there a pitcher that was more difficult to steal against than other pitchers?” Again it would be lefty because she had a good move into first base. Interviewer: “Much harder, but you stole against about all of them?” Yes. Interviewer: “One year you stole two hundred and one bases.” I just went nuts that year, I just had it going and I was like the energizer, you can’t quit. I stole mostly because even when we were behind and I got on second, if we were two or three runs behind you get a run in and before you know it you’re back in the ball game. 26:29 When they say you shouldn’t steal if you’re behind, that’s crazy, you steal whenever you can because you can still score and you can get a run here and a run there and peck away and before you know it you’re tied. You can steal whenever you get a chance, I feel. Interviewer: “But you don’t want to get thrown out.” No, you gotta be sure you’re gonna make it if you’re behind, that’s for sure. Interviewer: “And I should say that you stole two hundred and one bases and that was out of two hundred and three attempts—all year long you got thrown out only twice?” 27:08 Ya. Interviewer: “You don’t happen to remember who threw you out or how you got thrown out?” Ya, Bonnie Baker threw me out once and I’m not sure about the other one. Bonnie Baker was the one, and -------could have been the other; they were both all star catchers. Interviewer: “That’s an incredible record, it really is.” You know, I can’t believe that sometimes either. I can believe it when I wake up in the morning sometimes. Interviewer: “I can say it, that’s an incredible achievement. You played 1943, 44, right up to 50?“ 43,44,45,46,47,48 and 49, six all star games—teams. 10 �Interviewer: “While you were playing, the rules were changing. The bases were further apart.” That didn’t bother me. Well, you know it didn’t bother me, they said that they did it purposely, but I didn’t know that that’s what they did to try to stop me from running. I didn’t know that until I read it. I really didn’t know that. 28:31 Ignorance is bliss, right? Interviewer: “You just kept running.” I just kept running and I never knew that they did that. I read that on a card and I thought, “I didn’t know they did that”. Interviewer: “They also changed the rules for the pitcher so the pitcher could throw more—slowly raised the pitchers--” 28:57 When Max Carey became out president, he was a baseball man, so he wanted baseball and then they went to overhand and sidearm. Interviewer: “Did that affect your—“ No Interviewer: “didn’t affect your hitting really either?” No, I liked baseball better; you got more time to look at the ball. With fast pitch they’re right on ya and you gotta be ready. Everything is timing and you gotta be a pretty fast swinger with the softball. 29:28 Interviewer: “Right, the swing is different for baseball.” You know these guys are doing this—why are they monkeying around with their bat doing this and that—just wait and you’re right there ready. Interviewer: “Get set and be ready.” Just be ready every time. Interviewer: “Pretty simple. Are there things a leadoff hitter has to do differently?” 30:00 Well, you gotta make sure you get on base so the other people can bring you in. The main purpose of your job is to get on base. Interviewer: “Do you take more pitches?” You take more pitches and usually I always took the first pitch. One of the boys would say, “you always take the first pitch”, and I said, “my job is to get on first base”, and I’d never seen the pitcher before and I like to see what they’re throwing. 11 �Interviewer: “And you still got two more strikes?” Right. Interviewer: “As they say and particularly for you, “a walk is as good as a hit”, it’s as good as a triple.” Better than that sometimes. 30:39 Interviewer: “Those years you were playing, did you get into the playoffs, into the championship?” Yeah, my first year we won the championship in 1943 and we won the championship in 1946 when we played fourteen innings against Rockford and we won 1-0 as a consequence of—I got a base hit and stole second and tried to steal third, because they hit the ball to right field, I scored with a terrific slide. It was coming from right field and I was coming from third and I had a slide away from the tag. A very close play and that was the ball game. 31:25 Interviewer: “that had to be—one to nothing, fourteen innings, who were the pitchers?” We had sixty-five hundred people at that game. Carolyn Morris was pitching the no hitter for nine innings and when somebody got a hit he took her out. We always thought, “good, get her out of there”, and then he put this Mildred Deegan in and I said, “this game is ours” when he put her in and we did, we beat her. Interviewer: “You could hit her or get on base?” I got on base and that was the ball game. Interviewer: “You stole second, it’s almost—it’s not a hit and run if you’re on second.” They thought it was a hit and run, but it wasn’t. 32:07 I started to steal third and she hit—I told her to take one pitch for me, that’s all and I never told them before, but when I tip my cap give me that pitch and I’ll get to second. I never did that before. They could hit and do anything you wanna do and I would go when I felt it was time to go. 32:34 Interviewer: “201 out of 203, you had to be pretty confident you were going to make it.” Yeah, yeah, I was just a kid and when you’re a kid you don’t have any nerves. Interviewer: “Any other games? I know another game I want to ask you about. You once stole seven bases in one game.” I don’t remember that one. 12 �Interviewer: “Well, the book says you did. They said that was the record for the league and that’s incredible.” Well you know, if you got the ability to do it, you do it.” 33:19 Interviewer: “It makes sense to me. Now, you played until 1950—you didn’t play in 1951?” I played until 1950 and then I went to the Chicago league and then Battle Creek got a team, so they scouted me and then I went to Battle Creek to play. Interviewer: “So that’s where you were in 1951, you left the league.” In 1952 I went to Battle Creek. Interviewer: “Why did you leave the league in 1951 to go to Chicago?” Because we lost our franchise in Racine and we were done. We started losing fans and we lost our franchise, so a guy came in from Chicago and he scouted Joanne Winter and me, so we went to Chicago. 34:08 Interviewer: “By that time you’d been playing and stealing a hundred or two hundred bases a season for seven years. Did your legs start to bother you? You had to be taking a beating.” Well, I had the hip problem there for a little while, but it was ok. Interviewer: “So you were still a base stealer right up to the end, came back to your last year?” I came back to Battle Creek and my last game was in 1955 in Arizona and then I went back to softball. 34:41 Interviewer: “That was it for baseball?” Yea, that was the last year that I played. Interviewer: “In Battle Creek, were you injured when you played there that last year?” No, I left because—I don’t want to get into that. Interviewer: “Not even with the camera not running?” No, there was a reason why I left and I don’t want to go into it. Interviewer: “Ok, that’s your privilege. What happened after baseball?” After baseball—I had been working for this fella when I was in Racine and then he asked me if I had any money and I said, “a few bucks”, and then I went into business with him. 35:36 13 �Interviewer: “What kind of business?” We made parts for aeronautical, automotive and electrical parts and so I did—a small business like fifteen or twenty people you wear many hats. I did the payroll and did the purchasing, inspection and billing, whatever there was to do, we did. I was there from 1952 until 1972 and then I came into Phoenix, to Scottsdale. 36:17 Interviewer: “You retired. Did you cash out of the business?” Yes Interviewer: “What was the mans name?” The name of our business was Apex Machine Products, Inc., Racine, WI. My business partner was Paul Douglas and he was ninety-one years old and he was my best pal. He was a very good friend and my best friend. 36:44 Interviewer: “A good partnership?” A great partnership. Interviewer: “That’s good, that’s good. You went back to softball after baseball.” Ya, well I played all sports, I played basketball and I bowled and I play golf. Interviewer: “How long did you continue playing ball of one sort or another?” I played until 1955. From 1943 until 1955. Interviewer: “Ok, and softball after that?” No, I was done in 1955, which was the last softball game I played in Phoenix. 37:21 Interviewer: “Did you miss it?” Of course, I miss everything. Interviewer: “ I understand that. Now, did people who knew you later know that you had been a—“ You know, they had a write up in the Arizona paper about me playing ball and it was on the front page of the Arizona Republic and the guy across the street ran over and said, “God, I didn’t know you played ball”, like I was going to advertise it. Nobody knew that we were ball players. It was over really until the movie came out and after that things went crazy and everybody wanted our ball playing days and all that. The movie really brought a lot of publicity to all of us. 38:21 Interviewer: “Did you like the movie?” Yeah, I liked it, but a lot of the stuff wasn’t true. No manager would ever come in and urinate and we never kissed sailors or threw at the fans, we never did that, but the 14 �telegram about somebody being killed that was true. There was a lot of it that was true. Hollywood, they embellish everything. 38:54 Interviewer: “Once the movies out, fans rediscover you.” Ya, more or less we all rediscovered. Interviewer: “Do you get invitations to speak to groups?” I still get baseball cards that people want signed and they send me blank cards. We never sign blank cards. They had the Ted Williams card and I get a lot of those. Then they send me a 9x12 pictures and we sign those. I get two or three a week for signatures and autograph. 39:33 Interviewer: “I don’t understand the Ted Williams card, what is that?” Did I bring my purse? Ted Williams made cards of ten of us and they told me to bring some cards, so this is it. Interviewer: “Ted Williams put this card together? There you are and your record.” That’s where I read about them extending the bases to try to stop me from running. You might as well cut my legs off. 40:22 Interviewer: “That would finally stop you, although I’m not sure you wouldn’t learn how to run on your hands and keep running anyway. That’s a nice card and maybe we can get a shot of that before we’re through. Now people look at the women’s league—“ You know it’s surprising, we had—the room was full of people and I thought, “Where did they come from?” Tim must have put something in the paper about having autographs because there’s no sidewalk out there. Where did they come from? Interviewer: “They heard about it.” Yeah, they came and boy there was a ton of people that came in there. I think it’s wonderful because they—I get a letter from a few guys that say, “I didn’t know your league was out there. I wish I could have seen you play ball”, and these are from men. I wish you could too, but it’s too late. 41:30 Interviewer: “Do you hear from young girls?” Yes, they’re writing a thesis or something and I send them clippings from the paper and they appreciate that. Interviewer: “Do you speak to groups?” 15 �Yes. I don’t do it any more, but we use to go to church things and golf, at the golf courses and different places. They really enjoyed the women, playing ball, they really did. 42:19 Interviewer: “Have you ever thought of yourself as a pioneer?” Yeah, I told Dottie White, I said, “You know, you don’t ever talk about the girls that were here from the first four teams. We really were the pioneers and you came after us”, so when we had a reunion they had the girls there from 1943 and 1944. I said, “if it wasn’t for the girls in 1943 and 1944, 1943, actually the first four teams, if it wasn’t for their ability and deportment, you wouldn’t be here today”. 42:55 We actually paved the way for them. Interviewer: “You were the true pioneers.” 1943 teams were the real pioneers. Interviewer: “Are you a feminist?” Yes, aren’t you? Interviewer: “Absolutely.” The women never get the breaks that the men do. Look at golf, the men if they win a tournament they get a million dollars and when a woman wins it, she’s lucky if she gets three fifty. To disparage a girl, that’s awful. I give Billie Jean credit when she said, ”we’re not playing unless we get the same amount as men do at Wimbledon”, and by god they get the same amount as the men do. 43:49 Do you think that’s ever going to happen in golf? No way. Interviewer: “You’re right.” It’s not fair; they play just as hard and work just as hard as those guys do. Interviewer: “And you took the abuse physically to play, just like the men did.” You know they get the money and if they don’t get paid, they don’t play. We played when we were hurt. 44:20 Interviewer: “Would you have played for free?” Yes, we all would have played for free. Just to be out there playing in front of the public. When we played amateur it was free. We had our own glove and we didn’t get paid. Interviewer: “It’s about the game.” That’s it, it’s about the game, we really loved the game, there’s no kidding about that. Interviewer: “I jumped over it, but Jim reminded me and I need to ask you just a 16 �little bit about spring training before the season started. You went to Cuba and played there—lets talk about how you got ready for the season.” 45:14 Well, we went to Wrigley field for spring training and they hit grounders and we batted, you know regular spring training like the men have. You played catch and you hit grounders and fly balls to the outfielders and the pitchers—we got in shape running and doing exercises. We had great spring training. Interviewer: “While you were playing they went to different places for spring training including one year in Cuba.” Ya, Max Carey instigated that because he was from Florida, so in 1947 we went to Cuba and had spring training there and they went wild over the women. We had twenty-five thousand people and the Dodgers were playing and they couldn’t figure out why they didn’t have all the people, but they said, “baseball feminine, they’re over there watching the women” and we had to be escorted to the ball park because those crazy—they love blonds, man they love blonds and we had to have the security people escort us to the ball park because they would steal your glove or anything. In fact when we were in South America and it was the time when Simalsa was---and his son—Dotty Schroeder was a good looking blond with pig tails and he said to her, “anything I can do to you let me know”. He meant “for you” and we razzed her and said, “hey Dottie anything we can do to you?” Anytime she got up to bat we really razzed the daylights out of her. That was funny. 47:12 Interviewer: “That’s a good story. Any questions from back here? You went to the Cooperstown ceremony?” Yes, but I didn’t go when they had the statue because it was a bad time for me. I did go when they had the first one, but not when they had the statue. Interviewer: “How do you feel about being in Cooperstown?” Wonderful, you know first they were just going to show us where people wrote them a lot of letters that the women deserved to be in Cooperstown, so all our names are on a plaque and that’s going to be there forever, so that’s wonderful and we got a little recognition anyway. 48:05 Interviewer: “And now there’s an exhibit that talks about the league.” And we got the statue, so that makes it extra special. Interviewer: “So there will be a separate Hall of Fame?” Well, I think some of the girls deserve an individual, but for all of us it’s great. I think it’s ok for all of us to be in there. It’s wonderful. 48:23 Interviewer: “Well deserved and I thank you very much. 17 �18 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-58)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Sports for women World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Oral history Baseball players--Minnesota Baseball players--Indiana Baseball players--Wisconsin Baseball players--Michigan Baseball players--Illinois Baseball for women--United States Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-10-02 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-58_SKurys Title A name given to the resource Kurys, Sophie (Interview transcript and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kurys, Sophie Description An account of the resource Sophie Kurys was born on May 14, 1925 in Flint, Michigan. Early on in childhood she played baseball with the neighborhood kids and then started out in city leagues playing organized baseball at thirteen until she turned seventeen when she tried out to play professionally. She played for the Racine Belles from 1943 to 1950; played for a Chicago league from 1950 to 1951, and then Battle Creek Belles in 1952 until 1955 and left for reasons unsaid. During her long career, she predominantly played second base but switched to various positions when she was with the Battle Creek Belles. For the Battle Creek Belles she played third base, shortstop, and outfield. Kurys set many records. Among the most notable highlights were setting the league record for stealing 201 bases in 1946 and hitting seven home runs in 1950. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Olsen, Gordon (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives Baseball for women--United States Baseball Sports for women World War, 1939-1945 Baseball players--Wisconsin Baseball players--Michigan Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-09-25 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives