62 24 1541 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a59ea5b59f5e20f2538db732f678d06b.mp4 d4f078866cd1cdae813f1fee7faa9b68 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b608bc5dc402bfc2196120edcd11e934.pdf 78451e997ee1e8f1b9812216cdc8927b PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW DONALD BRAZONES TAPE 1 Born: 1924 in Racine, Wisconsin Resides: Byron Center, Michigan Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, August 15, 2011 Interviewer: Mr. Brazones, can you begin by telling us a little bit about your own family background? To begin with, where and when were you born? Sure, I was born in 1924 in Racine, Wisconsin and I was the middle child of seven children. I went to school in Racine and I stayed there until I left. The first time I left was to go into the service. Interviewer: What did your father do for a living? My father was a factory worker. Interviewer: Was he able to keep his job during the depression, through the thirties? No, he worked with the WPA and I think that was the only thing he worked with at that time, and that was the only income we had at the time. We had seven children, so that was kind of tough. 1:45 Interviewer: Did your mother or the older kids kind of pitch in and earn some money? There really wasn’t anywhere to go to earn money. Actually I started my first job when I was nine years old. I sold Liberty magazines and they sold for a nickel and it was very, very difficult to get a nickel out of anybody. I was a protegé of a little friend of mine, but I was really good at selling and we would usually stand by where a streetcar stopped, 1 �there were no buses at that time, they were all streetcars, and when the people got off the streetcar he would latch onto one of those guys and he might walk two blocks with him and finally get that nickel for that magazine. Well, I wasn’t that kind of a salesman, so after he sold all of his, he would take and sell mine because he was my sponsor. 2:55 Interviewer: All right, so you had to make do and sort of get by in the thirties. Did your father get a job again in thirty-nine or forty, as things picked up? Yes, he worked in a factory in Racine after the—I suppose there was—I’m not sure when that picked up, but I suppose it was just before the war. I can remember now, I can remember. We were listening to President Roosevelt, I think it was in 1939, and he was saying that they were going to build a hundred airplanes a day, or a week, but I can remember that, so I think things must have started picking up in 1939. At that time I was fifteen or so. 3:48 Interviewer: You were able to stay in high school and finish rather than leave after the eighth grade or something like that? Yes, I went to high school. Interviewer: Now, when you were in high school in 1939, 40 and 41, before Pearl Harbor, were you paying much attention to what was happening in the world? Were you aware there was a war in Europe and all of that? No, I was worried about playing basketball and of course, I was working then too. I had a paper route. I wouldn’t skip, I was excused from the last period in school, so I could get down and get my papers and get those peddled. 4:31 Interviewer: So that, now when Pearl Harbor happens and we are at was, that is a little bit of a surprise? 2 �Yeah, well it was a surprise and it happened, as you know, on a Sunday. My friends and I were playing basketball and we played on Sunday afternoon. I was there and all of a sudden one of my friends came and said, “The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor”, and I said, “Where’s Pearl Harbor”? I didn’t know anything about that, but the next thing that happened was that the newspapers put out what they called an “extra”, and the only communication you had with the public was by radio and the newspaper. 5:36 I just loved it when there was an “extra” because the paper cost five cents rather than three cents. The regular price of the paper was three cents, and what you would do—you would take your bundle of papers that you had and you would walk up and down the street yelling “extra, extra”, and the people would come out and ask what’s happening and you would sell them a paper. Interviewer: How soon after you learned about the news were you out there selling “extras”? The same day, as fast as they could get them printed, yeah Interviewer: So, it’s extra work for the paperboy and extra money. Yes Interviewer: When this all happened, did you figure that you would probably wind up in the service then, or did you think the war would be over in a few weeks and it wouldn’t matter? 6:31 Well, there were two friends of mine that were seniors in high school and we got talking the next day and we decided that what we were going to do was to go and join the Marines and we were going to go and kill Japs. My two friends went and told their parents what they were going to do and I went and I told nine. I said, “I’m going to join 3 �the Marines, Art Moen, Searle and I, we’re going to join the marines and we’re going to go and kill Japs”, and my mother said, “you’re going to go to school and you’re going to get your diploma and no killing Japs, so that’s what I had to do. They went into the service, they went into the Marines, and I went to school. 7:30 Interviewer: And of course, you were only seventeen at the time, so you couldn’t enlist without your parent’s permission. I guess do, I don’t know. Interviewer: Your mother said so, so that took care of it. All right, now, once you graduated did you go right away to enlist? I went—I graduated in June and I went in, in August. Interviewer: When you enlisted, did you have an opportunity to choose what branch of the service you went into? Yes, I was enlisting, so I could go wherever I wanted to go. Interviewer: What did you choose? I chose the air force; it was the Army Air Corps. Interviewer: So you could specify that? Yes Interviewer: Where did they send you first once you enlisted? 8:14 Well, the first place I went was to Great Lakes in Illinois. I was there for—I can’t remember. Interviewer: Great Lakes in mainly a naval base. Was it possible they sent you someplace else? 4 �I went to Great Lakes when I was getting out of the service. Maybe I—I was going to say St. Louis, Missouri is where I went to training. Interviewer: So, there’s Jefferson Barracks near there. Jefferson Barracks, that’s exactly where I went. Interviewer: What was the boot camp experience like? It was not very good because you—St. Louis in August, at that time of year, gets kind of warm. And when you have formations it was very common, when you’re standing at attention, that someone would keel over. 9:18 That wasn’t very pleasant. In fact, none of boot camp was very pleasant. It’s your first experience in the service, you’re just a young kid, and then you have to go through all of this nonsense. At the time we thought it was nonsense, but you feel kind of proud to be able to do it anyhow, because now you were in the service. Interviewer: You at least were in pretty good shape when you went in if you played a lot of basketball, so you could handle most of the physical stuff ok. How did you do with the military discipline, was that hard? Was it hard to learn or did you catch on pretty fast? I was eighteen years old years old and the discipline never bothered me a bit. I liked discipline and you can ask my son. 10:10 Interviewer: Did the drill sergeants seem to be people who were pretty fair, or did they vary a lot? They were not what you see on TV where these guys are yelling and everything. That’s for TV and that wasn’t the way it was, at least when I was in there, that wasn’t the way it 5 �was. Drill sergeants had a job to do and you had a job to do. You had to learn how to march and that’s one thing that you did. Interviewer: About how long did you spend in boot camp? Was it eight weeks or twelve? I would guess it was eight or twelve, yeah, I can’t remember. Interviewer: Now, at that point did they send you someplace for air corps training or what happened next? 11:06 From boot camp, I believe that you had of choice of where you wanted to go and what you wanted to do or you were just assigned, I’m not sure, but I don’t think you had too many choices at that time. I was assigned to armor school and I was sent to Denver, Colorado at Lowry Field, just a very nice place. Interviewer: What were they training you to do in armor school? You’re trained to—I could take a 50 caliber machine gun apart and put it back together blindfolded, and you also had to load the airplanes with bombs and that was about your job as an armor soldier [armorer]. 12:18 When I got out of there, instead of going to an active duty outfit, the officer on the base there decided he wanted me to work in the office. So, I graduated in armor and I was working this office and I wasn’t real happy about that, but that’s the way life is in the military. Interviewer: Why do you think he picked you to work in the office? I rally don’t know and I didn’t question it. 13:08 Interviewer: How long did that last? How long did you stay there? It lasted some months, I’m not exactly sure how long, but at that time they opened up a B-24 transition school in Denver, at Lowry Field. Everyday I would see these B-24’s 6 �coming in and landing and taking off and landing and I thought it would be more fun to fly one of those things than to work in this office. I decided to apply for the Aviation Cadets, and I did and I got in, and then I was sent to Santa Ana, California for a few weeks of hell. 14:11 We were restricted to the base. We went there for six weeks and in order to keep these young kids out of trouble, they put us to work. Every day we had to scrub the barracks and you had scrub brushes and mops and everything and you had to hang them up just so, and the mops were all cut even, so when you hung them up they were in line. The officer who was in charge would come in and inspect it and he said, “well, this looks pretty clean, but it doesn’t shine just right. Do it again tonight”. I don’t know how many times we scrubbed that damn floor. 15:15 Interviewer: What were you doing the rest of the time? Were you in classes or learning about aviation at that point or aircraft? No, this was basic training for the Cadets. Interviewer: Were the Cadets expecting to be pilots or were you training to be navigators? The point in Santa Ana was to take tests to see what you were qualified for. Whether you qualified for pilot training or navigation or bombardier or whatever it was. You would go through various tests, including co-ordination and trying to learn how to fly an airplane and doing all those machines. 16:17 Then you were classified and then you sere sent off to your particular school for whatever you’re qualified to do. They classified me as a navigator and I didn’t like that because I wanted to fly one of those things, so I went before the review board and I said, “I was classified as a navigator, but I would like to be a pilot. I prefer to be a pilot”, and they asked, “Why do you want to be a pilot?” I said, 7 �“Well, I want to fly one of those airplanes”, and they said, “What the hell do you think you do, navigate from the ground?” They said, “you either go to navigation school or the infantry”, and I said, “Where’s this school?” 17:18 When I think back now, had I been pushed out of there, I would have been hitting the beaches at Normandy. Interviewer: Or who knows where else in the Pacific. That’s right, that’s right Interviewer: Flying in a bomber over Germany wasn’t always such an easy thing either. They were all pretty dangerous jobs and not easy. No, not very much fun. Interviewer: Where did they send you for navigation school? I went to Hondo, Texas. Interviewer: Where in Texas is that? It’s about seventy-five miles west of San Antonio, out in the desert or whatever. Interviewer: Out in the wide-open spaces. Ok, what was the base its self like? What kind of a place was it? It was a bunch of barracks out in the desert and that was it. 18:20 Interviewer: What did your training consist of? What were you learning there? You were learning, I hope I get this, learning how to be a navigator. You would go on training flights and we had, I think they were called AT 10’s I believe, and you would have three navigators in this plane, students, and you would take turns directing the flight and following where you were going. Each navigator would take a leg and that’s what it was. 19:19 Interviewer: What kinds of tools did you have to navigate with? 8 �At that time you had an altimeter, a speed indicator, and you had a computer, which was called an E6B computer that was just like a slide rule really. That was a computer at that time. Interviewer: Did you work off maps? Yeah, we had maps. Interviewer: Did they teach you to navigate by the stars too? Yes, I took celestial navigation. Interviewer: About how long did you spend in navigator school? 20:20 I would guess, nine to twelve months, I can’t remember. Interviewer: That’s a long time. Did you get to go home at any point during the training process or were you just our there the whole time? I was out there the whole time, I think. Interviewer: Your out there at the base for a long time, you’re not in basic training anymore, so you can get off the base once in a while. Where would you go and what would you do? I would go to San Antonio. Interviewer: What was there to do in San Antonio? The thing to do was you could get some beer there; of course you could get beer on the base too, so that didn’t make any difference. It was getting away and out of jail, out of confinement for a while and you could say no to somebody and didn’t have to worry about it. 21:24 Interviewer: Did they have any facilities in San Antonio, Red Cross or USO to kind of help the servicemen or were you just on your own? 9 �No, they had the Red Cross and the one thing that sticks in my mind about San Antonio is that they have a river going through and a river walk. I remember we use to spend time there at that. Really, about all I can remember about San Antonio is that it was an impressive thing. Interviewer: That’s still there and it’s one of the things that San Antonio’s still famous for. What kind of guys were you training with? What sorts of people were in that school? In that school they were all in their early twenties. I believe, if I remember right, that you had to be under twenty-seven years old. If you were over twenty-seven you were an old man and couldn’t train in flight school. 22:34 It was all young guys and I was probably one of the youngest. Interviewer: Did a lot of them have some college already? I suppose so, I don’t know. I can’t tell you that, but I would imagine so. Interviewer: Were they from all over the country at that point? Yes, from everywhere Interviewer: What kinds of planes did you train in? You mentioned the first one. AT10 I think Interviewer: Was that a twin-engine plane? Yes, it was a twin-engine plane. Interviewer: Was that the only kind of plane you trained in, in San Antonio? In the navigation school, yes Interviewer: Was that complete now? 10 �There was one other, and I remember we took our final exam flight in a bigger plane. I can’t remember exactly what it was. 23:34 Interviewer: Once you complete the navigation school, where did you go next? Then I went to Ardmore, Oklahoma, and in Ardmore, Oklahoma we were assigned a crew. Pilot, co-pilot, navigator and everything and then you would start flying as a crew and try to get acquainted with all of your duties and how to fly as a crew. Interviewer: Now, what kind of a plane were you in? They were B17’s 24:15 Interviewer: Now, is this the crew that you would go over to England with? That is correct Interviewer: Can you tell us a little bit about the men in that crew? Well, there were four officers, pilot, co-pilot, navigator and bombardier. My pilot was the oldest of us, he must have been twenty-five and Bob Curtis, I’m not sure how old he was; he could have been a little older too. Interviewer: Was he the co-pilot? No, he was the bombardier and the opera guy. The co-pilot was a young guy too. Interviewer: You had enlisted men who were the gunners? Yes, and they lived separately from us. 25:26 It was interesting because—I’ll go back just a little bit—when I decided to go into the air force, a friend of mine from Racine had already gone into the air force, and when I was going I went over to see his mother and told her I might find—I might run into Don sometime, he’s in Texas. She said, “do you know how big Texas is?” She said, “from the bottom of it to the top of it is as far as from the top of Texas to Canada, and your chances of being with him are so slight”. Low and 11 �behold, where do I go? I go to Hondo, Texas and he’s a mechanic on those planes there. 26:29 The screwy thing about the service at that time, I don’t know what it is now, but when I got there I said, “oh boy, now I’m in Hondo and I can go and see my friend”, and I asked the officer, as he was getting us acclimated to the base and the rules and regulations and what was happening. I said, “I have a friend here, enlisted man, how can I go and see him? Where can I go?” He said, “well, maybe you could arrange to meet him outside someplace”. Officers could not talk to enlisted men and that was beyond what I could understand, so I saw him anyhow and I didn’t get put in jail. 27:29 Interviewer: Can you describe a little bit what you did as a crew as you were learning to fly the plane? How did that go? Well, you would have certain missions and as I think back, I think the training could have been better than it was, and particularly from my standpoint because I had to learn how to navigate. The pilot would say, “this is where we’re going to go and you tell us how to get there”, and he was also learning to fly the plane and he was also learning how to work with his co-pilot and visa versa. The bombardier also had to learn to drop bombs where he was supposed to, so all of us were trying to learn something in a very short period of time with the minimum amount of training, really. 28:42 One thing we did do in Ardmore, Oklahoma—those poor people in that city, it was just a little village, but with the B17 transition school there, they had all these young cowboys flying these airplanes. What they did, and what we did, was fly down like that and fly down Main Street. You could look up and see—I don’t know what those people did in that ton, but I guess everyone that went through that school decided that was the thing to do. 29:32 Interviewer: I suppose they got used to it after a while. 12 �You can, but how the hell do you get used to those four engines going down Main Street, Oh God, it was terrible. Interviewer: Were there problems with accidents and things in training? Did any crash? Oh yes, yes there were and I don’t know of any specific ones, but I know I heard of crashes. In fact, I’ll tell you—we were assigned one mission, so when we got in our plane—normally what you would was, you would take off from this field and you would climb to altitude like that and when you would get to your altitude you would level off and fly. 30:26 Well, in navigating it’s a little difficult to navigate at these various altitudes because the winds change and you don’t know exactly what they are ahead of time. We were going on one mission and the pilot said, “well, I’ll help you out today, I’m going to go to altitude right over the base and then we’ll fly on the mission”. That was fine and I could start navigating right from here then instead of trying to calculate all of that. Unfortunately somebody else was doing the same thing and we were coming around like that and just about met each other, but both guys dove off like that and I think the pilot was scared for the rest of the flight. That was not too smart. 31:31 Interviewer: Did the pilot ever play any games with you or do things that scared you? No, he had a job to do and we had a job to do and we just did it that’s all. Interviewer: Wasn’t there one occasion there at Ardmore when you were flying without a pilot? You were mentioning that before the interview. We were on a bombing training mission and on one day, all of the enlisted men had some bad food or something and they couldn’t fly because they had other things that were 13 �interrupting their flying, so they were all grounded. Just the four of us, four officers, were in the plane and took off in the plane. 32:38 The bombardier and I are down in the nose section and we were flying along and all of a sudden I looked around and here’s the co-pilot saying, “hi guys, how are you”, and blah, blah, blah and that’s fine you know. Then all of a sudden I turned around and here comes the pilot and I thought, “holy Mackerel, this is not good”, so he went right back up there again. He was the old man and he should have known better, but we were all in our teens and he was twenty-five or so, so he was an old man. Anyhow, after we got down he admitted that it was a dumb thing to do, but I guess he just couldn’t resist it. 33:33 Interviewer: Did these planes have an autopilot feature of some kind? Yes, he set it on autopilot and it flies by itself. Interviewer: Did you also have a Norden bombsight on this plane? Yes Interviewer: That is something were you can actually turn it over to the bombardier at a certain point to control the plane? You have—when you’re on a mission it’s all mapped out where you go and how you go and as you approach the target they have a place that’s called the IP or the initial point, so as you’re flying you fly over this initial point, you turn it into the target, and then the bombardier would take over. He would crank up his bombsight so that it would zero in on the target, and then he was under control of the plane. 34:32 He was flying the plane because he wanted it to go where his bombsight was pointing. He would do that and he would keep control of the plane until he dropped the bombs and then the pilot would take over. 14 �Interviewer: In training, how well did that work? Was he able to be pretty accurate with it? Yeah, he did pretty well. We didn’t do very many bombing missions though. Interviewer: You didn’t have a whole lot of practice then? No, very little Interviewer: We have been talking about your training with the flight crew in Oklahoma. Now, once you completed that stage were you ready then to be shipped overseas? Was that the next step? 35:25 Correct Interviewer: Did they let you go home first? I don’t think so Interviewer: Where did they send you? From Oklahoma where do you go? We went to Kearney, Nebraska Interviewer: Did you pick-up a new plane there or did you just take your old one? I’m not even sure how we got there. From Kearney we went to—that must be where we were assigned bases in England. 36:38 From Kearney we went to the port of debarkation in New York and we took a boat across. Interviewer: So you did not fly a plane over? No Interviewer: What kind of boat did they put you on? We were on a British boat, which was very nice. Interviewer: Was it a big passenger ship or a smaller ship? Did they use things like the Queen Mary to carry guys over? 15 �No—let me back up here a little bit. In Kearney we got—ok, we all got onto the ship and then we went down into the ship where there was a sort of big area almost like a mess area or something like that, and you all packed in there and sat by these mess tables and waited for everyone to get onto the ship. 38:24 We were all packed in there at these mess tables or picnic tables and we thought they were going to wait until everyone got on the ship and then send us up to our separate room to travel over there. It wasn’t too long after everyone got on the ship and there came an announcement over there—“Ok gentlemen, this is your home for the next two weeks until we land in England”. “Where are our rooms?” “Here are your hammocks, find someplace to attach them to and that’s your home for the next several weeks until you get overseas”. 39:43 Interviewer: Did you sail in a convoy or did the ship go by its self? We shipped in a convoy. Interviewer: What do you remember about the trip over? Well, the main thing that stays in my mind is that we were sailing along and there was an explosion on one of the destroyers in the convoy. These destroyers keep going up and down trying to keep you safe from submarines, but there was an explosion and one of the destroyers just staying there and we were going on, so he just disappeared over the horizon. 40:41 What we learned later was that a submarine took him out, so actually it was kind of scary until we got the heck out of there, but it was uneventful from then on. Interviewer: Was the weather reasonably good? Yes, as I remember Interviewer: Did you have a lot of guys get seasick anyway? A lot of guys got seasick and I didn’t. I was lucky I could take that. 16 �Interviewer: When you’re packed together that tightly it might have gotten ugly a few times. Well, you weren’t packed like sardines all the time. When you were sleeping that’s when you had to—you didn’t have a stateroom, your stateroom was your hammock you had hanging there. 41:34 Other than that—yeah, there were a lot of people on that ship. Interviewer: Were most of them army guys or air corps? Air force, all air force being assigned to basis in England. Interviewer: Where did they land you in England? We landed at Liverpool. Interviewer: What did that look like to you when you got off the ship? I can’t—apparently it didn’t make a big impression on me. Interviewer: Where did they send you then? What base did you go to? We went to the 91st Bomb Group that was in Basingbourne. 42:30 Interviewer: How would you describe the base there in Basingbourne, what was it like? I was a combat base and you flew your missions from there. The base I was on, in Basingbourne, was a previous Royal Air Force-Interviewer: Bomber Command base/ Yeah, well it was a British base and all of the buildings on there were permanent buildings. They were stone and brick and everything and the accommodations were very nice because it was a permanent base. A lot of the combat troops there live in Quonset huts, but we had it pretty nice there. 43:28 17 �Interviewer: Can you describe the first mission you went on? When was it and what did you do or did they split you up and put you with different crews the first time? No, the pilot flew two missions with another experienced crew, so he would know what happens. What happens is, you’re assigned a spot in the armada that’s going to be going over and bombing, so you would get up in the altitude, you would seek out the group that you should be flying with, so you would get over there and you would get in formation with them. 44:29 Interviewer: Had you done things like that, the fly in formation stuff when you were training back in Oklahoma or was this kind of new for you? There might have been one or two missions in Oklahoma, but I really don’t remember. Interviewer: So, this was relatively new for you too once you had to start to do it as a navigator? Well, it was brand new and I had been out of school for quite a while and not really doing much navigating at all and then you get to England and it was a completely different system of navigating and you were at war and that wasn’t much fun to think about either, so you had other things to think about besides navigating. 45:46 Interviewer: When did you fly your first mission over Europe? My first mission, I think, on June 4th or June 5th. It must have been prior to D-Day, a few days prior to D-Day. Interviewer: Shortly before D-Day, and do you remember where they sent you? Over—we went over onto the continent and we went in to bomb one gun site and came back. That was almost like a training mission. 46:47 18 �Interviewer: Was there much anti-aircraft fire over there? No, not on this mission Interviewer: A small enough target, so it wasn’t as heavily defended as something else might be? I think that’s a good analysis, yes. Interviewer: So you get there and you’ve joined up with your group right before DDay and at D-Day they used the heavy bombers which normally flew over Germany and things like that to attack defenses around the beaches themselves. Is that what you were doing then on D-Day? We dropped—on D-Day we dropped, supposedly the way we planned, from the shoreline in and strung out the bombing as they went in and we were one of the last groups bombing on D-day and it was like twenty minutes or so before the troops were supposed to hit the shore. 47:52 We were just in front of the troops. Interviewer: This was not the kind of mission those planes had normally flown. They didn’t usually— Oh sure, we flew many like that. Do you mean to support ground troops? Interviewer: I mean that particular kind of targeting against the coastline because they, most of the bombers missed by several miles? No, I wouldn’t say that Interviewer: That’s what the military historians and the bomb survey after the war said. You guys got better at it, but they didn’t hit the coastal defense at Omaha. No, you’re getting the 8th Air Force mixed up with the British. 48:37 The British were flying night missions. 19 �Interviewer: I’m speaking—in the history of D-Day this is pretty well documented. They put the 8th Air Force on a support mission and the idea was to bomb behind Omaha Beach. They were also bombing other stretches of the coastline, but the ones who went into Omaha missed and almost all the bombs went well inland and the German defenses were not hit by the bombers and the naval guns missed too, everybody missed. You know things that I don’t know. Interviewer: But, they weren’t telling you things and you wouldn’t know things like that, and when you flew a mission you wouldn’t know exactly what got hit or didn’t get hit unless you could physically see it yourself. 49:20 You had a—not a movie, you knew where your bombs went and how they recorded that I’m not exactly sure. Interviewer: They used different things, there were aerial cameras sometimes and sometimes you could visually see where they landed. I was thinking about recording it, but I’m not—I don’t know how it was recorded. Interviewer: Describe a little bit what you do as a navigator on one of these bombing missions. What was your job or responsibility? You’re, except for the lead navigator, your job was to follow. First off, at your briefing you were given maps and routes as to what route you were going to fly to get to your target, but the only plane or crew that led the rest of the air force were doing the actual navigating. 50:46 The rest of us were following and I lost my train of thought. 20 �Interviewer: You were describing what a navigator did, so most of the time, if you were on a mission and you were not the lead plane, the navigator didn’t have that much to do, at least as long as you stayed with the formation. You had to know where the heck you were at all times because who knew if you were going to stay with the formation or not. The lead navigation plane, of course, had what they called a “Mickey” and was radar. The rest of the planes had nothing. 51:45 When you got over the continent the enemy radar could pick you up and know where you are. What we would do, on the planes we would have what is call chaff and it was like foil strips and they would throw it out of the airplanes to try to goof up their radar. Interviewer: So, basically as a navigator, you’re still following, and checking where you are, and keeping track of your altitude, speed and direction, and you’re trying to plot out where you are with maps and that sort of thing even when you’re still in the formation? 52:42 That’s right because you don’t know when you’re going to be out of the formation. Interviewer: Did you have any other duties or responsibilities on the plane? I was a gunner. Interviewer: What gun would the navigator man? There was one on each side of the nose, two fifty-caliber machine guns. Interviewer: Now, you’re flying these missions in the summer of 1944 primarily. Did you see much in the way of German aircraft? Did they send fighters after you at all? On my eighteen missions and were never attacked by German aircraft. 21 �Interviewer: Now describe a little bit—you flew a series of missions over France and you did some over Germany too, but the ones over France, what kinds of targets did you have? What were you going for? 53:29 Like I said, on D-Day you were concentrating on a gun and after D-Day we were concentrating on bridges beyond the front lines, so you could—two things I guess, stop additional enemy forces from coming up and stop some from getting out too. We had sent a whole group of planes over to get one bridge. 54:06 Interviewer: Now, if you were trying to hit a bridge in a B17, how high did you fly when you would drop the bombs? 25,000 feet Interviewer: A bridge is a pretty small target and was the idea to just enough bombers over the area that somebody would hit the bridge? You don’t have a very good opinion of the air force do you? We hit the bridge and we hit it good. Interviewer: That campaign was actually very effective and it worked. I was just curious as to how it worked. The assumption was, usually, for the smaller target you would fly lower or send in smaller planes, twin-engine bombers or things like that. 54:42 I don’t know, I was in a B17 and it was a high altitude bomber and that’s all I know. Interviewer: That’s the idea, to find out from you, what did you do? What kind of missions you did get. We hit bridges, and we would hit gun placements Interviewer: Did you ever hit submarine pens? 22 �No, I said no, but I think there was—go ahead Interviewer: How bad was the anti-aircraft fire over France most of the time? Was that a serious problem were you losing planes on some of these missions? It was terrible, and the longer I was there the worse it got and the more accurate. As far as the Germans were concerned, it got better and as far as I’m concerned it got worse. 55:39 Interviewer: I suppose some of the bridge targets and things like that, might not been as heavily defended as a place that was fortified like when you flew over Germany. Eventually as the campaign moves forward, the Germans are retreating out of France, so you may still be attacking some of the bridges as they’re on their way out, but eventually you also fly some missions over Germany too. We flew very—the only time we went after a bridge was on D-Day and immediately after D-Day. You’re correct, you know heavy bombers, you can send fifty-four bombers off to hit one bridge. Normally you had your targets were airfields, factories and things like that rather than tactical, more strategic. 56:37 Interviewer: Did you also attack railroad centers and that kind of thing or was that not on your list? I don’t remember any, so they must not have been on the list. Interviewer: Where were the worst places to fly, at least in your experience? When you would hear about a mission going someplace, which ones would you not want to have to go on? Well, I did not want to go to Berlin. Interviewer: Why was Berlin particularly bad? 23 �I was defended; they didn’t want you to bomb Berlin. Their anti-aircraft and their aircraft were defending Berlin and they didn’t want you to bomb it, of course they didn’t want you to bomb anywhere, but Berlin, number one, was a long trip and number two, it was very heavily defended. Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, August 18, 2011 Interviewer: Now, we’re talking about your career as a navigator with the 8th Air Force bombing over Europe. You start that basically in early June of 1944 and when were you eventually shot down over Germany? Yes, when I first got there I flew thirteen missions in eighteen days and you get kind of worn out after that. Then I lost my crew. There was a navigator who had one mission left on his tour and then he could go home or stop flying combat anyhow. He wanted to take my place, so that was fine as far as I was concerned and I just wanted a day to sleep. I was just really exhausted, so he took my place. There was one plane that didn’t come back that day and that was my plane that I was supposed to be on. 2:20 I learned later that they had crash landed in Spain, or they thought that they had crash landed in Spain, but nobody really had any confirmation of that yet. So, for the what did I say, thirteen missions in eighteen days and then five missions in about three months, I think, from early July to September I flew five missions, so I’m a man without a crew. 3:03 Interviewer: So, you got assigned as a fill in or replacement for different crews? Yes, that’s right Interviewer: Let’s do a couple things, first of all, the bomber that you were originally with, do you remember the name? 24 �Yes, it was “The Heavenly Body”, now “The Heavenly Body” , and of course we had a nice gal sitting on a crescent moon, that was the nose art, but “The Heavenly Body”, I was responsible for that name because in navigation you called the stars heavenly bodies and I thought that would be a good name for us. Interviewer: Did you find out eventually what did happen to the plane and the crew? 3:53 Yes, I found out, and in fact somehow or other I got word that they were in London, the crew was in London, so I went there that night and I met with—I met with them and I went back to the base and I flew the next day and I got shot down, so that’s what happened. Interviewer: Now, can you tell us a little bit more about the missions that you flew as a replacement? When you were off camera, you mentioned an interesting one where you flew with a bunch of brass and it was a training exercise of some kind. 4:38 In fact I did very little training and that was, I think, one of the unfortunate things because when I arrived there you are getting ready for D-Day and of course everybody had to be in their—you didn’t have any time for training. You got training, on the job training, so tell me your original question. Interviewer: You mentioned something about flying with some higher-ranking officers. Well, when they wanted to go—well, I had one mission, it was called “Melcron” and it was over France and it was—I can’t remember what we had to hit, but that’s when the General was the pilot commander on the ship and who else did we have? I don’t know, a 25 �Colonel, I guess, as the co-pilot and the navigator was a Major and I went along as the second navigator. 5:58 Just in case the first one-Interviewer: Got lost? Yeah, but that was—it could have been better than that because the second one would have been lost too. You’re sitting back there, you know, and you don’t see anything and it’s really tough work. Interviewer: What kind of a mission was this? What were they doing? You mentioned something about colored smoke or something like that? Say that again Interviewer: You were talking about colored smoke. This was an orientation, I would say, and I didn’t know it at the time, for the mission to Saint Lo. 6:47 At that time the American troops were sort of bogged down. They couldn’t get out of Saint Lo, so when we viewed the mission, it wasn’t a mission, it was just a trip in England from one base to another and this other base is where they were demonstrating what it was going to be like in Saint Lo, so apparently the ground troops would light these flares, colored flares, and each group was assigned an area between the red and the green, the blue and the yellow, so you could cover the whole area and not cover one area five times, but cover five areas, so that’s what I—at that time I didn’t know any of that though. 7:47 Interviewer: They were trying to figure out how to hit particular area targets on the ground if they want to bomb the German positions, so they do it better than they did it before. One of the runs they made at Saint Lo they hit a lot of American soldiers. 26 �Well, I’m trying to think of the General’s name there. What happened, according to the Air Force, not the infantry, the Air Force, is that at the bombing was so accurate and so intense that the ground officer, the General, I can’t remember his name—8:40 Interviewer: Do you mean the famous one that got killed? Yeah Interviewer: General Mc Nair, who was head of the infantry? Yeah, he got over enthused about this bombardment and he couldn’t wait until the rest of the bombers bombed and he started going in ahead of time. Now, that’s the Air Forces story. I don’t know what the infantry’s story is. Interviewer: But that was a process, right? Tell us a little bit about flying over Germany. You flew a couple of missions over Hamburg? That was one of the places you went? Yes, that was not nice and Hamburg was—I can’t remember exactly what the target was there, but it was very heavily defended and the anti-aircraft was very intense and very accurate. It took, the plane that was flying off our wing, it had a direct hit and broke the plane in half and it went down. 9:55 I can still remember my pilot, he got on the intercom for some reason and said, “oh my gosh, right in half’. He was an older man, he was an older boy, and doing something like that of course, gets everybody excited. You’re excited enough and you don’t need that kind of stuff. He really felt bad after he did that, but obviously it was an emotional thing. Interviewer: Can you describe a little bit the physical conditions of being up in the airplane, you’re flying a mission twenty-five thousand feet up, or something like 27 �that, how did you keep warm? How long do the missions go if you go over Germany? What is it like to be up there? 10:50 Well, it wasn’t any fun at all because when you fly at twenty-five thousand, or higher, it’s colder than heck. It could be twenty-five degrees below zero and your body doesn’t operate like it does when you’re in this living room, so it’s very difficult to move and to think and to operate. It’s very tough. Interviewer: Did you have to wear oxygen masks? Oh yeah, from ten thousand feet on they say you have to wear oxygen. Interviewer: How did you keep warm? Well, you had a-Interviewer: Did you have a heated suit? No, I didn’t—they had heated suits, but I had, what the hell do you call it? I had a fleecelined suit. Is that right? It was like an overall with a big bib up here. 12:04 They kept you warm, sort of, and you wore big boots, fleece lined boots to try to keep warm. Interviewer: Why didn’t you have a heated suit? Were there not enough of them or what? I guess I just didn’t want one. Interviewer: So, you chose not to have one, all right. It’s another one of those things that show up in the history book. They say, well the first guys that flew over in B17’s, they were really cold etc. Then they had the first heated suits and then those set fire to themselves and things, but eventually they got better, so everybody had one and it was no big deal. Maybe not everybody is wearing them or you just 28 �didn’t think you wanted one, ok. If you flew, say, as far as Berlin, how long would you be in the air? Was it all day? 13:04 Five or six hours maybe and on my gunnery I would write down the length of time, but that was the time that you got credit for and that was when the wheels left the ground and when the wheels touched the ground. You’re going to have to excuse me. Interviewer: We were talking some about what it was like to be flying on these missions and being up in the aircraft etc. Did you basically have to spend most of your time as navigator, just constantly tracking stuff and keeping track of where you were or were there period when you could just not pay attention? Not while you were flying, you better pay attention because even—it was extremely difficult. They say at altitude you’re mind isn’t working the same. It’s very hard to write and you can’t see the ground. 14:22 You don’t have much to look out of anyhow, just the Plexiglas nose, so it’s extremely difficult to know where the heck you’re going. Interviewer: Were there occasions when you did have to leave formation, when you had to actually navigate your way back home? Yes, we had one mission that was aborted and thank God, it was a mission to Berlin and the pilot said that he couldn’t get one of the engines to function the way it’s supposed to and decided we would abort. 15:01 We were all the way up over the—up into the Baltic Sea when he said we had to go back, so we went by ourselves and when you get back, it’s amazing, they have about four or five officers meet that airplane when it stops and they want to know why the hell you came back and they check it out to make sure you just didn’t decide you didn’t want to go on this mission. 29 �Interviewer: Now, you had that period there, after you had lost your crew, when you only had a small number of missions over an extended period of time. What did you do the rest of the time? Did you sit around the base a wait for an assignment or could you go off base? I went off base and I went to—I went to Cambridge, which was north of us, and I went Christ’s College and I would go into their library and I would get books to read and it was nice because you’re away from it all when you’re in this quiet room and doing something different from what you were doing. 16:20 I think, and I didn’t have a crew, so it was uncertain when I would be flying, so I spent a lot of time there. Interviewer: Did you go down to London at all? Not by myself Interviewer: Had you gone with the other guys before? I’m trying to think. I went to London one time and I can’t exactly remember when that was, after all my missions or what, I just don’t remember. 17:03 Interviewer: Now, can you tell us about the mission when you’re plane got shot down? It was your last mission. Yeah, from the beginning? Interviewer: Just tell us what you remember about it. Well, as I was saying, this is sixty-seven years ago, but it’s so unusual that, that mission is burned into my scull, into my brain. And I can just about remember every single little thing that happened or didn’t happen that day, so if you want me to start from the beginning I would be happy to. Interviewer: Sure, go-ahead 17:52 30 �When we—for some reason, I was nervous that whole day, from the middle of the night when they woke us up to the time we got shot down. I got up, you get dressed and go to the mess hall and eat your breakfast, and then those who wanted to would go see the priest to get your blessing before you went off. Hoping God will watch over you and bring you back. So, that day the chaplain didn’t show up, he overslept or something I guess. 18:55 That just got me a little more excited and I couldn’t figure why that was happening, so after breakfast I went into the, I’ll say locker room, to get dressed for my flight. I would put on the heavy clothes and then your fleece lined boots, these big boots, you put them on, and as I was stringing one of those up the string broke, or the—excuse me, oh, the zipper broke, I think, and in the zipper pull, they have a little leather strap, so I took that strap out and instead of going and getting a new boots I thought to myself, “well, I don’t need these after today anyhow”. 20:05 I took that and put it around my boot and tied it into a knot to tie my boot on and that was a crazy thought to have going through your mind anyway. Interviewer: It wasn’t like this was going to officially be your last mission. It was number eighteen, which is not a magic number. It was not official anything except that to me, it was a different mission. The target was Ludwigshafen, Germany and we had a normal flight to the target, actually. 20:55 On the way I had this premonition that something was going to happen and that I better get ready for it if it does happen. I decided that what I would do when we got hit, and when you’re flying you have a helmet and a big sun shield, it’s not glasses, it’s a shield, and when you’re with that, you can’t see down here at all because of the shield. 21:50 So, I was trying to figure out what I was going to do and I said, “I better get ready for this”, so 31 �you also wear a flack apron, I call it an apron because one part comes down in front and one that goes down the back and it snaps at the shoulders. You have a red tag down here and when you pull it, it releases those fasteners up on the shoulders, so it falls off you. What you do is, you wear a parachute harness and the straps snap here and also the leg snaps up like that and the shoot itself has—the harness has two hooks here that are friction hooks. 23:23 Your parachute is a pack about that big and it’s all packed up real tight and on there you have two rings and the thing to do is to hook those rings into those hooks and then you have your parachute. Well, on my first few missions I would just put that pack by the side and not even—until I woke up and said, “this is not the United States, this is dangerous and you better”, so what I would do from then on, I would take that chute and hook it on one side here and then it would hang down like this and I didn’t know if it would work or not, but I had some protection there in case flak comes and maybe that will protect me from flak. 24:18 I had the flak suit on the front and the back and that side and on this side I would get kind of close to my instruments on the table there, but that wouldn’t have stopped the BBs, so anyhow, that’s what I started to practice and I said, “well, the first thing I’m going to do when we get hit is to pull this thing, so my flak jacket drops off, and then it will expose my harness, my parachute, and it will expose this ring, so then I can just pull this up and snap it in there, and now I’m ready to go”. You also have an oxygen hose out here and communication lines, so you have these lines out there all the time, and so I would practice. 25:20 I wasn’t doing much navigating, I’ll tell you that. I said, “OK now, when we get hit the first thing I’ll do is get rid of these lines, so I’ll just grab them and jerk them off of my face. The next thing is, I have to get rid of my flak jacket, so that flies, and I have to take my chute and bring it up 32 �and poke it into the ring there”. I would practice that, so I could do it without fail. So, sure enough, here we’re going over the target and that day I had a camera, it’s a big old thing like this, with a crank handle like that and the pilot told me to take pictures of this trip. 26:26 As we hit the IP, which is the initial point, and we turned to go into the target, I just scrunched down hoping that I wouldn’t get hit, or I was at least protecting myself as much as I could while going over this target. It’s really difficult to fly that airplane into this target area because the sky black and it’s just all bursting out there, and it’s turning black and you know that those black things, they’re just shooting metal all over the place. 27:24 Really bad news, but you can’t dodge those; you have to keep going right straight into the target. So, the pilot, he can’t do anything because he’s flying off the wing of someone else, so there isn’t anything you can do, you just sit there and pray to God that you don’t get hit. Well, I think God takes that just so many times and decides that this is your day, so we’re headed right for the target and going through all this hell and all of a sudden I see this black puff of smoke right in front of the Plexiglas nose. 28:25 You know that those 88’s, they go boom, boom, boom, boom, four of them, so it didn’t hit anything there and the next one I heard right here and POW it blew and at that moment the plane seemed to put on its brakes up there in the air. We were just sort of staying there for a second or two and then we just went over like that and from the time of the explosion, I don’t know if I said this, but I’ll repeat it. At the time of the explosion I went through all of my motions and got my chute on and I was ready—I guess I said that. 29:22 But, in the navigator’s and bombardier’s compartment in the nose of the airplane, there’s a bulkhead right behind us and an opening. You go through that bulkhead and right on the floor there’s a door that we used to get in and out of the 33 �nose section. I said, “What I’m going to do, I’m going to get all this junk ready, get my chute on and I’m going to lean back and I’m going to go out that door”. Well, I did all that and I leaned back like this to go out the door and that’s when the plane got hit and both of us just went down—the bombardier and I were just crushed into the nose and as this plane is going down in a spiral like this, the centrifugal force just pushed us into this nose. 30:21 Then we’re going down and I knew there wasn’t anything you could do about it , and this is your last day on earth. The first thing I did, of course, was to make peace with my God and I knew I was going to die. The funny thing is, you’re not very scared because you’re going to die and there’s no way of getting out of it. Thoughts go through your mind as this is happening, obviously your mind doesn’t stop, and I thought of my family first. 31:22 They’re going to be really sad when they find out that I got killed and I just sort of waited there to hit the ground and I said, “Gee, I wonder how much it’s going to hurt when we hit the ground?” Dumb things like that and all of a sudden as we’re going down like this I feel this pressure against your body, and all of a sudden I could see a little space between the Plexiglas nose and the metal body and the nose blew off. 32:17 The bombardier and I were blown out that nose. Well, it’s a very peculiar feeling when you’re first of all, falling through the sky. I look up and I could see that the planes were still going, they were going to go home. “Damn, I’m not going home with you today”, so I just kept falling and falling because you’re trained to delay pulling your chute until you can just about see windows in buildings because that will tell you that’s the height you should pull your shute. 33:12 The reason for delaying that is that is that you will not be detected for such a long period of time and when you hit the ground you can do your best to escape. If you pull the chute way up here, they’ll be 34 �watching for you and greet you as you touch the ground, so that’s the reason for that. Finally, when I falling through the air, I saw this chute up there and I said, “you know what, that’s enough”, and I pulled my ripcord. I pull my ripcord and the chute opens up and I’m floating down and I look down and I can see this building and the flames are shooting up out of it and I said, “oh God, I hope I don’t land in that”. 34:13 I’m coming down and all of a sudden I hear this roar and I couldn’t figure out what it was. I thought it was a plane, it’s one of the Luftwaffe, and he’s going to come here and he’s going to shoot me out of the sky. I turned around like that and looked and it’s not the Luftwaffe at all, it’s all these bombs and they are going down like that. It was just—I don’t know how far away from me, but not very far. When you can pick up little bombs and everything, that’s when you know you’re pretty close, and the roar of the bombs falling. In a bomb, I don’t know if you know it or not, there’s a little propeller that they put in the nose part of the bomb and it’s held in there by a wire. 35:14 So, it won’t spin until that wire is pulled out and when you lead the bomb in the plane, you load the bomb on some racks and then you take that wire and put it through a hook up here that will hold that wire while you drop the bombs. When you drop the bombs you pull that wire out from holding that propeller, and that propeller goes around until it’s off and then when the bomb hits it’s ready to explode. Without that it wouldn’t explode, so I imagine that was part of the noise I heard, I don’t know, but it was very, very scary. 36:13 Fortunately, at least as far as I could tell, that was the last group that was bombing, so I didn’t have to worry about that any more because you’re in the air and the wind is taking you and from then on it was kind of uneventful. I’m looking down and trying to figure out where the heck I’m going to land and what I will do, and as I’m coming down I could see there was 35 �a pretty darn good chance of me landing in that river, the Rhine River. So, I’m going down and sure enough, sure enough I’m going down into the river, so I take and unhook this tip part of my parachute harness and your Mae West, which is your life preserver. 37:15 It’s made of rubber and it has two CO2 cylinders down here and when you want to inflate it you just pull these two tabs and it releases the cylinders and the cylinders blow the Mae West up. So, I’m in the river and woof, I pull those off and it blows up and I hit the river. People who are not jumpers, and the one timers like the rest of us in the air force, do not realize the speed that you’re falling with a parachute, and as a result many of the guys in prison camp have sprained ankles and broken ankles. I could tell when I hit that river I really hit it, so if I was on the ground I would have gotten smashed up, too. 38:13 Interviewer: Was the parachute still attached to you or had you unhooked that completely? No, the only thing I did was unhook this and I kept it with me until I hit the water. I wasn’t going to get out of that thing until I hit the water. When I hit the water I still had these two straps holding me, so I just turned over on my belly and swam out of the chute, swam out of the straps. The wind took the chute and I went down with the current of the river. I said, “the factory’s back here, Ludwigshafen Ovens, and the river’s going that way, I’m going to stay in here a little while and get the hell out of the target area”. I did for a little while, it had to be a minute or something like that and I decided to row over and get the heck out of that river. 39:16 So, I started to swim over to the shore and as I hit the shore, get to the shore. I started to crawl up the embankment and I look up and there’s a guy standing there. I thought, “Oh jeez, I wasn’t free very long”. He was not a 36 �German he was a slave laborer and he said, “come, come, come”, so I followed him and what choice did I have, but anyhow, I presumed he was a friend because he was not in uniform and he was taking me. He took me over a little ways and then there was an opening in the ground and a ladder going down in this opening. 40:18 You go down the ladder and when you’re underground there was a big metal tank with a door on it and you would get in that tank and that would be your bomb shelter. That’s what they used for bomb shelters. So, he put me in there and just made some motions and left. He can’t talk my language and I can’t talk his, so we’re going through sign language like that. A few minutes later he comes back and he has a loaf of bread. He rips off a piece of that bread and handed it to me. “Thank you, but I can’t eat, I’m not in the mood for eating right now”, so he took it and he goes back out and another guy comes down. Aha, he saw this prize they had just gotten. 41:29 They could speak a little language and they had a leaflet. We would drop leaflets, and he said two words that I could understand, “soon here, soon here”, and the leaflets showed where the front lines were and where Patton was and they were right, “soon here”. So, they motion like this again and they go back up and a few minutes later, I don’t know how long it was, this one guy comes back down and he’s all excited, “comrade, comrade, comrade”, and I thought, “something’s going on here”, and I didn’t know if it was good or bad or what, but it didn’t sound good. 42:30 I followed him over to the ladder and he crawled out and I crawl out and as I look up here’s a German in a black uniform. At the time I thought it was an SS trooper, but I found out later he’s a policeman. So, he’s holding the gun down there and I come out. I didn’t tell you one of the interesting things about when I went into the river or did I? I couldn’t swim or anything with those big heavy boots on, so I got rid of the boots. I 37 �unzipped the one, but the other one was tied on, so I just took that thing and broke it and kicked it off. 43:26 I sort of said, “no sense in getting new boots because you wouldn’t need them after today”. That was kind of dumb because I could have used them in prison. We were up on the Baltic Sea and it was pretty darn cold up there. Anyhow, that’s the way it worked. Interviewer: So the policeman arrests you and what do they do with you once they have you? They took me—we were sort of on a, it was an open area by a factory, the factory was right there, and we walked across this open area and onto a street, then he marched me down this street. I had my hands up in the air like this and the gun in back of me, and we’re walking through this rubble and stuff and people are running in and out of buildings and I thought, “oh, oh, this is probably the end of me”. 44:47 I was one of those guys that just bombed their home there, their city. There’s no question about it because I got my hands up like that and I said, “boy I’m not going to be able to walk very far before I get shot, I know that”, but apparently nobody shot me, or obviously thankfully nobody shot me. 45:22 He took me into an office, but this office was down underground also. We walked down some stairs, I mean it was not like the dungeon I was in, but it was a funny office all underground. Apparently after years of war they started burying stuff. We went in there and the first thing the policeman does, he said, “take off your clothes”. He didn’t say it, he just motioned to take them off, so I took them off and I had my shorts on and he motioned for me to take of my shorts too and I thought, “ok, you’re the boss”. 46:21 So, I had to take off my shorts too and everything’s all wet , of course, and they had to go through everything to make sure I 38 �didn’t have any weapons of any kind. Then he gave me back my clothes, so I put on my clothes and just sat there for a while and he’s sitting there with this gun pointing at me all this time. We’re just sitting there, obviously waiting for something, and I didn’t know what, but he’s just pointing it there and finally he takes and he releases the hammer and puts it down, so the least little movement up until then and I would have been a dead cookie. I was happy to see that he relaxed a little bit too. 47:21 Then we just sat there for quite a while and then another man dressed in a suit and everything, not a uniform, but he had a business suit on. He came down and he said, “Oh my boy, my boy, what has happened to you today?” I said, “I was shot down”. They go through this every damn day and they know what’s happening. “Where are you from, where did you come from?” I said, “I come from the United States”. “No, no, no, where did you come from today?” I said, “I’m an American, I come from the United States”, so he got a little angry with me about that and said, “all right, all right”, and he leaves. He didn’t have to ask me that, he knew who I was. 48:26 He leaves and I think the next thing is that this soldier comes down there and we get out of that office building. We went to another area and went into another building, an aid station, I don’t think it was a hospital, but it was an aid station. 49:49 I went in there and then this German officer was in there and he was going through some of my things and one of the things I had was an escape pack, it was about like this and that high, and in it, it had something to put into water to purify it, so you could drink it. It had some candies in there, and I don’t know if they were potent candies or what they were, but there were candies in there and he offered me some at that time. 50:50 He was paging through that and there was also a cloth, almost like a silk, and there was a map printed on it, so in case you got shot down in enemy territory you could 39 �figure out where you were and how to get back out of there. What else was in there? I don’t remember much else, but those were the important things, I think. Then they took me and put me in a cell, I’ll call it a room, but it was a room with no windows or anything in it and I just stayed in there. 51:44 I think that’s where I stayed, for the night I stayed in there—I’m trying to figure out when I was turned over from the Wehrmacht to the Luftwaffe because that was a very important point. You could just about see day and night between the two. The Wehrmacht would just as soon shoot you, where the Luftwaffe had sort of camaraderie with the Eighth Air Force flyers. 52:40 So, I guess we didn’t have the experience on the ground with the soldiers, so we weren’t that hardened, so he was very nice to me and he was appointed to be my guard. I was glad to get rid of that other guy and I went into this room, windowless room, and there was a bed in there, not the kind of beds we know, but it was something I could lay down on and that’s where I stayed that night. 53:27 I went to sleep and the next morning, I don’t know what time it was, and I imagine it was around noon because that’s how long it takes for our planes to get back, and the Eighth Air Force came back and bombed Ludwigshafen again. I don’t know why they hit us, I didn’t think we were in Ludwigshafen, but we must have been close to it. When the sirens went off my guard comes running into the room and said, “come on”, and we go outside and we go across the street into another building and go down into the lower level of that building and here’s a bunch of people there and all of a sudden the bombs start dropping. 54:32 You just can’t imagine what it is to be bombed. You’re in this place, the bombs are dropping all around you, the big explosions—you’re just about scared out of your skin and the 40 �bombs start coming down and then all of a sudden an incendiary bomb comes down through the vent window and it’s burning there. 55:30 They cry “sand, sand sand”. Continued on Tape 3. 41 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brazones, Donald L. (Interview transcript and video, 1 of 2), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brazones Donald L. Description An account of the resource Born in Racine, Wisconsin, Donald Brazones enlisted into the Army Air Corps at the age of 18 in retaliation to the Japanese's bombing of Pearl Harbor. Brazones trained to be a navigator and was sent to England to fly missions over Europe. On Brazones' 18th mission, he was shot down and captured by German Officers. His interview is a detailed recollection of his time in the service, especially his memories from the day he was shot down, and his subsequent capture, imprisonment and release from captivity. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-04-06 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BrazonesD Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d33120685eed7ff15b821feea8e8183f.mp4 01801c81bb1423e2a126799583b766a1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/24967c4492ba63c27dfc71f4c43a84c1.pdf 01b060bef4047ac4ae2130d4c42af20d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam War Loren Brand Length of interview (02:05:07) Background Information: (00:30)      Born November 23, 1943 in Niles, Michigan Currently lives in Ludington, Michigan Interviewer served with Brand in the Marines and FBI for a number of years Brand was a Marine Officer, discharged at the rank of Captain Served in the Aviation end of the Marine Corps. Pre-Enlistment: (01:50)  Entered the Marine Corps in 1966  Was in college at Michigan State University, transferred from North Texas State University in 1963  After 5 years in college, he was sent notifications about the draft. He had registered for the draft in Texas, (02:56)  Received notification to take his pre-draft physical (03:47)  While walking across campus he came across the officer recruitment agents. He checked with the Air Force and Navy but was told that his Business major did not really qualify him with enough mathematics and science. (04:54)  Remembers the Marines being very impressive. He “loved the uniform”, and was told to take the exam. (05:22)  Did quite well on the exam, decided to avoid the draft by signing up to join the OCS after graduation.  Was assigned to an Officer Candidate Class in October of 1966 (05:51)  Had a summer off after graduation before entering the Marine Corps, in which he met his wife and became engaged to her. (06:11)  Had injured a knee while attempting to get in shape during the summer and so had a difficult time with the physical training. (06:28) Training and Flight Training: (06:30)  After completing training, became a Second Lieutenant on December 16th of 1966—also was married the next day to his wife, Tamara, who he has been with for 43 years. (06:54)  Was then assigned to Flight School in Pensacola, Florida after a 20 day leave. (07:04)  Upon arrival in Pensacola, the aviation classes were full, so he needed to wait almost three months. o Classes were 50 per squadron o Went through Primary Flight, then into flying the T-34 Mentor (07:52) �o o         Each class was made up of Navy and Marines Took the physical test there (08:37)  Running the obstacle course, doing pushups and situps Entered the first stages of flight school in April of 1967 (09:28) Remembers the entrance meeting to flight school (09:37) o The meeting was standard, guest speakers, expected behavior o “Brought in a hero to get us pumped up” o „Hero‟ was a Lieutenant Commander who flew F-8 Crusaders. He had been assigned to a photo-reconnaissance unit, who would make a low, fast pass to photograph the damage done during bomb runs. (10:31) o Was a very dangerous job. o Remembers that the man‟s first statement was that he wanted to address the Marines in the audience. He said “I want to tell you something right now, gentlemen. Look to your right, and look to your left. One of you three is not going to make it through alive should you get your wings.” (11:11) Remembers his first landing o After logging 9 hours of flight, he was able to land his aircraft solo. (12:51) o The tradition afterwards was to buy your instructor a bottle of their favorite liquor o Then came other training, such as aerobatics, maneuvering (14:17) Describes another plane he flew: o T-28 Trojan, equivalent to WWII fighters. Further describes the plane in detail. (15:10) o Describes flight route (15:46) o Also flew VT-2, description (16:05) Did very well in the first few stages of flight training and was assigned to a VT-3 (16:42) o Completed the VT-3 training in 10 months o Remembers this stage being very stressful as his wife was pregnant during Scored the highest ever scored on one of his flights, something that had never done before (19:07) At the end of training, your total composite scores from pre-flight, primary flight, advanced flight were taken into account, and a number score was assigned. o Talks about the scores necessary for certain jobs in certain branches. (20:45) Only one Marine was taken for actual planes, the rest were told they could drop out of flight school or join rotary wing, and fly helicopters. (21:55) Helicopter Training: (21:56)  The first helicopter used for training was the Bell TH-13-M. o Was the classic „bubble‟ helicopter that can be seen on MASH (22:14)  Describes the helicopter further  An incident during training, Brand was scheduled for a solo flight; he was there on time and did everything he was supposed to. (23:34) o He went out to a practice area, (Pensacola, Florida) and there was no one there (24:34) o He completed his training and headed back, and notices that everything is tied �     down; the only people around are a few frantically waving ground crew. o As soon as he shut down the helicopter, he was told by Navy personnel, to see the commanding officer immediately. (25:40) o He was immediately yelled at, and after explaining that he was scheduled for a flight, and had a green light from the tower, and he was told that he was lucky to have returned alive, because all flights had been canceled due to monsoon activity. The next stage of flying was the H-34, describes the helicopter Tells of the incident of his final flight check, where his instructor was very distracting and attempted to make him lose concentration. Shortly after he passed the check, he was awarded his wings (30:11) Brand‟s wife had flown home to have their first son, Jefferson, due to the threat of some complications which never occurred Brand had his wings ceremony on May 10th of 1968 (30:39) o Afterwards, Brand collected his family and went to his first post in South Carolina, where he was to train in the CH-53 Became a first lieutenant while in South Carolina, and then was scheduled for leave and then to depart for Vietnam. (32:13) Vietnam (32:34)  Flew out of South Bend Municipal Airport for San Francisco to go to Travis Air force Base  Brand thinks that was when it hit him that he was going to Vietnam, he had been prepared for the inherent dangers of flight, but not for the dangers of warfare while flying  The flight itself took about 20 hours, but was uneventful. o Landed in Okinawa, Japan for about a week before going to Da Nang, Vietnam (34:24)  By the time he arrived in Da Nang, it was a very powerful military presence, and not usually attacked, but he was ready to be attacked at any point  Describes the different kinds of transportation sent for the different branches of the military.  Not 45 minutes after arriving at the Marine base called Marble Mountain, there was an enormous explosion, and while they ran to the bunker, the captain knocked himself out when he hit his head on the overhanging door. (38:48) o The explosion turned out to be dynamite from the mining of Marble Mountain, and the men hadn‟t been there long enough to know the difference between mining explosions and artillery.  The next day they were told the only way to get to their duties, some 75 miles north, was to find their own ride. (40:20) o They found a CH-46 and “hitched a ride” o Checked into their respective squadrons—he joined HMH463 (40:57) o HMH stands for Helicopter Marine Heavy (41:06)  First Flight in Vietnam (41:58) o Heavy Lifters were to fly ammunition to a remote landing zone on the DMZ at night o Carrying sling-loads of 155 artillery rounds �o             The only light they had to maneuver by was a single flashlight on the ground (43:24) o His partner, a warrant officer, told him they would, instead of moving the ammunition to the landing pad, would move it to the gun site Brand only flew about 25 missions (44:06) He and 5 others were called into the CO‟s office and were told they were needed elsewhere (44:28) o More experienced pilots were needed for the squadron Brand remembers that only he and a captain, out of the six, came out okay (45:39) The six of them were moved over to the CH-46 squadron o Squadron 265 Brand was preceded into Vietnam by “a matter of three weeks” by one of his best friends (47:15) o William Hale was his name—nicknamed “Willie T”  The only bachelor in the group of Brand‟s six military friends, their wives were always trying to fix him up  He was very cheerful and always upbeat (48:27) o Brand flew out to see Hale about two months before Hale went to Vietnam  Brand remembers for the first time since knowing Hale, he was “despondent”  There were problems with the tail-end of the CH-46 falling off, which Hale was to fly (49:46)  Brand reassured Hale—“Flying in combat is 90 percent boredom and 10% stark terror” (50:36) Brand had been sent to the new squadron to replace William Hale, who had been killed (50:56) o When Brand checked in, he received all of Hale‟s bedding, his locker, helmet, ect. o Brand remembers being very religious, and praying during spare time for his safety (52:42) Brand began getting “Maintenance Hops” to learn how to fly the CH-46 o A maintenance hop is when a helicopter has been repaired, it has to be tested o Brand had less than 50 hours of maintenance hops (54:19) Brand tells a story of a combat mission (55:02) o Brand was not technically in command, but called all the shots (57:15) o The major with them was frightened the entire time, although they were not hit (57:59) A few weeks later an entire crew was lost o The hydraulics went out and there was no way to land safely (59:00) Brand remarks on his religious attitude at the time (59:58) o “The off-time was worse than the flying time” Brand made Aircraft Commander by early November, only a few months after he had transitioned to the CH-46 (01:02:35) o Flight Commander by January o Division Commander by late February Brand had a couple crew-chiefs wounded (01:03:13) �        o Story about inserting troops into a “hot area” Military had designed the Ziploc bag for holding documents (01:09:25) Worked in the flatlands and in the DMZ (01:16:12) o When the weather became cooler, they could fly at higher altitudes o 1969: told he would be trained as an Embarkation Officer, explained o Was told when he was training in Okinawa, his wife could stay with him Brand returns from training in Okinawa and resumes his duties. o Flight story about a difficult maneuver (01:21:02) o Army “Rule of Flying” (01:27:21) June of 1969- moved to Iwo Jima (01:29:02) o “Bald Eagle” missions o Vietnam at night had no lights, had to fly without aircraft lights Story about another marine, John Prombo (01:33:51) o Unusual weather pattern o Last they ever heard of that flight Story about the end of Brand‟s tour (01:39:24) o 2-3 weeks until the end o “Button Hook Landing” explained (01:44:21) Once Brand left the marines and joined the FBI, he was talked into going back to church (1:51:32) o Story about getting his faith back Returned home in October of 1969 (01:55:01) o Rejoined a tactical squadron that supported the western White House, flew the Secret Service, Presidential baggage o Put in for a regular Marine Officer, and also for the FBI—1970 Finishing Remarks  Brand talks about his sons (01:58:35) o Elder son graduated from the Air Force Academy o Younger son joining the FBI � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brand, Loren (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brand, Loren Description An account of the resource Loren Brand entered the Marine Corps in 1966, and attended college at Michigan State University and North Texas University. He was trained in aviation and served in the Vietnam War as a helicopter pilot. After the war he became an FBI agent. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Erichsen, Wallace (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-05-15 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BrandL Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b712e7c8af4ace4ee570701dc38a26cf.mp4 eb4cde0f38744b3e3bcc8fbfc37af9ce https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1d81a6c7469e0b35d60e784c2be3d5a7.pdf 0b3dc8880c4a0d19fc53fcf978e5a2e9 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Other veterans & civilians Interviewee name: Robert Brady Length of Interview: (00:16:28) Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Robert Brady Length of Interview (00:16:28) Background and Training (00:00:00) Born in Toledo, Ohio, 1934 Went to college Wasn’t drafted, nor enlisted because he joined the Naval Officers Training Corps in college (00:00:25)  Allowed him a deferment until finishing college; given commission Had to do two years of active duty and six years reserve duty  Did this when he was 22 or 23; in the U.S. Navy Planned on going to Graduate School, but had to give it up Went through various training (00:01:38)  ROTC: took a three hour college course to learn Navigation, Combat Information Center, various Naval procedures; three years  Did training during service not during college Trained as Atomic/Biological/Chemical Warfare Officer, protects the ship from these type of attacks (00:02:20) Took training on how to fix damage aboard ship Boat Wave Officer, as well (00:03:05)  Made sure the other ships hit the line of demarcation, all in line, and hit the breach at the same time �Oxford, Ohio for four years of course work; and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania for training (00:03:30)  In training for six months There was no conflict at the time (00:04:06) Stationed at Little Creek, VA where the amphibious force was located (00:04:15) Lebanon (00:04:30) Was once shipped out to Lebanon due to civil unrest occurring there  Six hundred Marines to “deter” them Was in the Mediterranean during the conflict Onboard an LST, 11-71 (00:05:34)  A big empty tank deck that carried tanks, trucks, and missile launchers; a very large ship that could be beached Was turned around and anchored in Crete (a Greek Island), instead; waited for the conflict to dissolve Base Life (00:06:43) Enjoyed living at the base; had a bachelor’s office Got married after a year and moved off the base Had good food both at the base and onboard  Had Filipino cooks on ship Had a normal workdays, 8AM-4PM, onboard; sometimes “officer of the deck”, steer the ship and radar (00:08:08)  Would watch movies and play cards in spare time  Didn’t have much spare time, too many duties  When on base, would go off-base during free time in Norfolk Made many close friends (00:09:30)  Had to be close because they depended upon each other �During the Lebanon Conflicts, they would have sent in 600 Marines plus tanks; had been relieved when turning back to the U.S. (00:11:00) After Service (00:11:35) Went back into Graduate School after service and got a degree in Oxford, Ohio Had to cancel his Wedding once because of the Lebanon Conflict (00:12:25) Got a Bachelor’s Degree in Geology and a Master’s Degree in Business and wanted to work for and Oil Company but worked at a Pharmaceutical Company, instead (00:13:23) Matured when in the Navy, mainly because of the duty “Officer of the Deck”; responsibility for a multi-million dollar ship and 600 lives (00:14:35) Most memorable moments: cancellation of his wedding and when being discharged (00:15:20)  Had to be “clothes-lined” to another ship when being discharged from the Mediterranean � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brady, Robert Howes (Interviewer outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brady, Robert Howes Description An account of the resource Robert Brady took ROTC training while in college and joined the US Navy in 1956. He served for three years in various capacities, including duty on an LST in the Mediterranean during the Lebanon Crisis. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Combs, Cam (Interviewer) DeVries, T.J. (Interviewer) McMannus, Susan Forest Hills Eastern High School (Ada, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-06-04 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BradyR Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0f2babb29d6ae5ebc3968ce8da9756a0.mp4 f43b35943cc5ff45a50c199d2068f1f4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/251aeecae97961c7a3b437aba5e4be8d.pdf 511339b3da0e46b24a4fcfe0ec4c6399 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam Bruce Brady Total Time (01:15:00) Background • • • • • • • He was born October 17, 1949 in Welch, West Virginia (00:20) His family moved to Winston-Salem, North Carolina when he was seven years old (00:30) o His father was a coal miner and the mines had shut down in West Virginia His father then became a barber (00:39) There were four boys in the family and he was the third (00:58) He finished high school in Kernersville, North Carolina (01:03) o He graduated in 1967 He was very aware of Vietnam and the draft o His older brother had been drafted and signed up for an extra year (01:25)  He worked in supply When he finished high school, he worked part-time jobs and tried to go to school at night (01:55) Enlistment/Training – (02:06) • • • • • • He was drafted October 6, 1969 (02:12) He was sent to Charlotte, North Carolina for his physical examination (02:32) o There were nineteen in his group o He was aware of men attempting to fail their physical They were then bused to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and arrived at 01:00 A.M. (03:21) o When they arrived it was extremely loud o It quickly went from civilian life to military life When he got to Fort Bragg, they began with processing and testing (04:05) o He was offered helicopter school o His mindset was that he would take what they would give him (04:34) His group was immediately stationed to a bunk where they received two or three hours of sleep (04:50) Once the processing was done, basic training was a lot of class time, physical training, weapon training, and other busy activities �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • o He was in good shape when he entered (05:27) The discipline was not hard to get used to because he was a quiet individual (05:45) There were other men there that were having a much harder time o Some of the men had a hard time with the physical part and others that could not keep up with the mental aspects (06:07)  There were some men from Puerto Rico that had been drafted • They were straight from Puerto Rico, rather than Puerto Ricans from New York or elsewhere (06:39) The majority of the men were from the Northeast and the South There were very few black men (07:27) His drill sergeant was an E-6 o He was an extremely fair sergeant o He was an excellent teacher When he grew up he did some hunting and trapping which helped him in basic training (08:19) o He was using the right techniques His sergeant had been in Vietnam but did not say much about it (08:41) He was sent to Fort McClellan, Alabama for Advanced Individual Training (AIT) (09:24) Fort McClellan was in much worse condition than Fort Bragg had been In AIT, there was little class work and the physical training was much more difficult (10:13) o Every Saturday they did a 20 mile forced march, during the week they would do escape and evasion, river crossings, helicopter training, etc. (10:23)  During escape and evasion they would have men actually looking for them His instructors were men that had been to Vietnam (10:55) o One of them had been shot in Vietnam and received a wound in the neck  His picture was on the cover of LIFE magazine in February of 1966 (11:17) All of the training was geared for Vietnam The training in the mountains helped him physically but the other training was completely different from the reality of Vietnam They trained on all small arm weapons, M-16, M-14, M-60, M-79, .50 caliber machine gun, and many others (12:47) The forest where he trained was dense (13:45) o There were areas that were swampy as well  Some of the men would fall through the ice in the swamps during training o He was never caught in escape and evasion during his training (14:40) The AIT was from December until April (14:54) o He then received a leave until Vietnam �• • • • • • He flew out of Greensboro, North Carolina and traveled to Oakland, California (15:16) o He was in Oakland for two days o They had instructions to not bring much to Oakland In Oakland, the troops stayed in one place and were there until they heard their names read off (16:00) At this point he had no expectations of Vietnam He remembers serving food to returning soldiers and they appeared to be “spacey” He then took a commercial aircraft with 250 other GIs (17:21) o Soldiers were in their jungle fatigues (17:35) His flight path was from Oakland to Anchorage, Alaska, to Tokyo, Japan, and then on to Vietnam (17:47) o In Alaska there was a two hour layover that he was able to get off the plane for Active Duty – Part I – (18:08) • • • • • • • • • • • • He landed at Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam (18:15) o They landed during the day On the plane's descent, because of his window seat, he could see small arms firefights (18:28) o He realized that “this was the real thing” When the door opened the heat was stifling and could almost take a persons breath away (18:46) When they exited they were processed and began Vietnam training o They were learning about the climate, sickness, etc. and how to deal with them (19:06) They were then assigned to their units He remembers taking a shower at one point and then realized a Vietnamese woman was cleaning the shower He spent three or four days in Cam Ranh Bay (20:17) He knew that he was in the 101st Airborne When he received the travel orders, he was told to go to an airstrip to see if any aircraft were going in the direction that he needed to go in (20:39) o He first took a C-130, which took him part of his way north When waiting for his next plane, he could hear the bombing, fighting, and air strikes o He also noticed that they were bringing in body bags (21:32) o He did not dwell on it From there he was taken on a chopper another 30-40 miles north (22:02) He was approached by a Loach pilot and was asked if he would go and help him load supplies in the field (22:19) o There were three cases of dynamite � • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • He was supposed to throw two cases out of the right and one out of the left o One of the units threw smoke grenades so that they knew where to throw the dynamite packages (23:06) o By the time he was at the third package he was struggling because it was so heavy He eventually found a ride to Camp Evans (23:52) At Camp Evans he had been assigned to A Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Infantry Regiment (24:10) All of the companies were in the field when he arrived (24:18) They remained in their hold pattern until they were assigned to a platoon (24:38) He was sent out to join a unit in the field He was flown out by a supply chopper It was very mountainous and jungle-like (25:28) o There were bare spots in the land where he realized where that was where they would land When they landed, they were approached by their platoon leader (26:21) o He did not know it, but the soldiers in the field hated to be resupplied because it gave away their position (26:30) He is introduced to all of the other soldiers and then they disperse They are told by their platoon leader that they are going to become RTOs (Radio Transmitter Operators) (26:54) o He was already carrying all of the weight that an infantry soldier was loaded with  He told Lieutenant Noll that he was not sure if he could carry all of that weight when Lt. Noll responded, “Well, you can walk point.” (27:21)  He realized that he would become the RTO His platoon stayed at the LZ for the whole night (27:39) They were hit the next morning because of the supply chopper the day before o They were hit with RPG’s (Rocket Propelled Grenades) (28:00) The first night in Vietnam he was scared but he also thought that they were all in this together At this point he is working as the RTO After the initial RPG hit, his platoon got up and were on the move (30:08) o The weather was absolutely miserable – it was hot and it was at an average of 100 degrees o It rained every day at 16:00 (30:25) o The terrain was extremely mountainous (30:39) o They would often have to cut their own trails o There were vines that had a hook on it that would catch on soldiers  Soldiers would have to freeze and reverse their steps to get the hook out otherwise it would rip you open (31:01) o The insects were horrible (31:09) His company commander was Captain Burkhart (31:23) �• • • • • • • • • • • • o He forced the company to make safe movements (31:57) o There was contact under Cpt. Burkhart, but it was lighter and less frequent than others He stayed in the field for 90 days (32:22) Cpt. Burkhart was with his unit for nearly two months (33:19) The daily routine was moving every day o They were occasionally hit – it was always a hit and run (34:31) o One time they were on the ridgeline of a bombed hill where an individual was hit in the thigh from an air strike 1,500 meters away o There were times where they would sit for some time and ambush the enemy (35:14) His unit had many injuries There was one occasion where they were digging in for the night and half of the soldiers would go out and set claymores and trip flares (36:18) o One soldier accidentally tripped a flare and the sergeant threatened to kill the soldier (36:46) o He then took his M-16 and put it in the ear of the sergeant who was threatening the other soldier (37:12)  The Sergeant was taken out of the field soon after that As an RTO, his objective was to follow Sergeant Ames, his squad leader (37:54) o All of the communication was through the platoon leaders He was eventually switched to serve as the RTO for Lt. Noll Lt. Noll was very good and level-headed, seemed like he cared about his troops, and he was calm and collected (38:40) The majority of the RTO communication came at night (40:17) o They would call in every hour to make sure their position was secure He averaged around four or five hours of sleep every night (40:49) o He was an extremely light sleeper One night his platoon set up further up the hill than the NVA o The NVA began firing mortars up the hill at Ripcord  Lt. Noll called in gunships – the firing stopped after that (42:20) The majority of the nights were quiet even though it was the most feared time o It was very helpful when there was a full moon at night because the soldiers could see around them (43:03) o When the moon was not out, it became extremely difficult to see anything Active Duty – Part II – (43:25) • When Lt. Hawkins took over the company, they became more aggressive (43:30) o He initially thought that it was too aggressive because they were losing too many men o They were going out on ambushes more often (44:00) o He was forced to go out on the majority of the ambushes because he was the RTO �• • • • • • • • • • • • During one ambush he saw some lights in the distance and called them in to the base atop the hill o The base fired rounds on the lights and they eventually went out (46:35)  He called and told the base that the lights had gone out o Nearly an hour later the lights came back on  They fired another round that hit the tree that he was sitting at (47:03) o The men his platoon woke up and were screaming (47:16) o They fired nearly ten more rounds and the lights never came back on o The enemy had been moving ammo during the night One day they came across a bunker system that was underground (49:28) o They spread powder gas that would not allow the NVA to use the bunkers for months At this point he was concentrating on his job and not necessarily on the enemy (50:54) o Communication was extremely vital o He was carrying the radio, multiple batteries, eleven quarts of water, and all of his regular equipment as well (51:16) o He carried the same equipment as a rifleman They were resupplied by choppers every three or four days (51:50) o They would catch water from rainfall o When they crossed rivers some of the men would fill up their water bottles  Some of the men did not use iodine tablets [to purify water] and got sick (52:07) He knew about Firebase Ripcord at this time (52:25) o He knew of other Firebases as well Soldiers were often times taken out of the field and stationed at a Firebase for thirty days to get some kind of a break (52:59) He was then stationed at Firebase O’Reilly (53:04) o He was at O’Reilly from the end of June until July 10th or 11th  They were taken off because Charlie Company had been hit hard  Charlie Company had been hit hard on Hill 902 on July 2nd (53:24) When he was on O’Reilly, they received intelligence that Firebase Ripcord was going to start getting hit around July 1st (54:18) At this point they were all thinking that it could get bad He was then sent back out to the field He was only on Firebase Ripcord for one day (54:43) o He had gone to Ripcord long before they had been sent to Firebase O’Reilly When he left O’Reilly, he went near Hill 805 (55:46) o At this time he did not know what their mission was o They were supposed to take Hill 805 and began operating from there (55:58) o There were already fox holes in the area from previous units being there o When they arrived they were ambushed (56:16) �Active Duty – Part III – Ambush and Final Days of Service – (56:17) • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • The ambush was against Lieutenant Noll and the RTO’s (56:28) He was able to duck into a foxhole where he gave the radio to Lt. Noll and he was able to fire against the enemy (57:02) o When this happened there was an explosion off to the side that hit both of them with shrapnel (57:13) o The enemy hit and ran – the fight did not last long o When the medic came over he said, “Brady, this is your ticket out of here.” (58:01) o Lt. Noll had been hit in the back of the leg He is taken out by medevac and the wind was extremely rough (59:30) The flight out was extremely rough on the trip out He was taken to Camp Evans at a field hospital (01:00:11) They were taken into an aid station where he was then transferred to Da Nang, Vietnam (01:00:22) o He was on a litter and knew that he should be at Da Nang when he looked over his side and only saw water (01:00:50) o He had actually been taken to a hospital ship He was taken into a medical room where a doctor looked him over (01:01:09) He asked why he was there and the doctor just told him that they were going to take care of him They eventually sent him to Da Nang and then on to the 249th Hospital in Tokyo, Japan (01:01:30) In Da Nang he saw a man that was burned from head to toe (01:02:15) o He had traveled to Tokyo with the man to make sure he was comfortable At this point he was bandaged up (01:02:44) o They would change the bandage three times every day Once he arrived in Tokyo, he was placed in ward with 100 patients o The doctor and the registered nurses would come around at least twice a day (01:03:26) o When he first arrived he had to give blood He eventually had to go in for surgery When he was there he would get up and help the other soldiers that could not move (01:04:20) He remembers many wounded men from A Company coming in as well He was in the hospital in Japan for thirty-one days (01:06:18) When he was on recovery he was told that he was being sent to a re-assignment station the next morning (01:06:49) o When he arrived at the re-assignment station he goes to check in and was told that, because he was drafted, would not have to go back to Vietnam because he had been in the hospital for over thirty days (01:07:18) He was told that he could end up in five different locations o He told them that he would take any one of them (01:07:55) �• • • • • • • He found out that he would be stationed at Fort Carson, Colorado He was told to report to Fort Carson on September 1, 1970 (01:08:17) When he was processed he was told that he had another year to go and did not have any leave time remaining o He had his convalescent leave taken from him (01:08:44) At Fort Carson they played war games o He was on a mechanized APC (Armored Personnel Carrier) (01:08:55) o The first week he was out he woke up and had four inches of snow on him He was with the 4th Infantry at this point (01:09:20) o He was a rifleman o He would pull guard duty, KP (Kitchen Police) duty, and other E-4 duties (01:09:38) He was left at an E-4 because the military believe that he was going to get out of the service One morning the draftees were told to pull to the side and clear post in five days (01:10:44) o He cleared post in four hours After the Service – (01:11:04) • • • • • • • • When he went home he had to find work because he had a wife and child to provide for (01:11:14) He went to an electrical contractor and became an electrician o He went through a four year apprenticeship (01:11:33) o The G.I. Bill helped pay for this o He was working during the day and doing the apprenticeship at night During Vietnam he did not have contact with his family members (01:12:00) o He had contact with his wife but no family members While he was gone his wife was still in school and eventually finished when he was in Vietnam He finished his career as an electrician (01:12:48) He worked eventually began working in the [VA] hospital system (01:13:00) o He was a two point preference employee because of his service and Purple Heart o He saw many patients from war – he saw soldiers from Korea and some from Vietnam His wife left him and he became a single parent with two children (01:13:36) o He changed jobs because he thought moving closer to his wife’s family because he thought it would help the problems – Unfortunately it did not work (01:13:57) He is extremely thankful for his time in the service and tries to treat everyone very respectfully o He still hurts over the men who were lost (01:14:39) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brady, Bruce (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brady, Bruce Description An account of the resource Bruce Brady was born in 1949 in Welch, West Virginia. His family was forced to relocate to North Carolina where he eventually graduated from high school in 1967. He was drafted on October 6, 1969 and was sent to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and to Fort McClellan, Alabama for training as an infantryman. Sent to Vietnam after training, he was assigned to A Company, 2/506 Infantry, 101st Airborne Division. On joining his unit, he became a radio operator for his squad, and later for his platoon. His unit participated in the campaign around Firebase Ripcord for several months. He was wounded in an ambush in July, 1970, and sent to Japan for treatment, and served out the last part of his enlistment at Fort Carson, Colorado. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-10-06 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BradyB1447V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3f8ce963738c07d4630b02653b3ed84c.mp4 be674a4cd24e597d4fc8e266556edc55 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3b7c73e2ec7212abf0d73474e5ef40f7.pdf fe62d9f7007a0d7d3b94233324e76d8f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee name: Gerald Bradley Length of Interview: (00:42:47) (00:15) Pre-Enlistment  Childhood o Gerald was born in Madison, Michigan on April 22, 1922.  Family o His father had an 80 acre farm and later worked for a machine company during the war.  Education o Gerald went to Sunnyside elementary school through 8th grade. o He then went to high school in Hudson where he played basketball and football. o Gerald graduated from high school in 1938 and began working on the family farm, as well as the machine factory with his father.  (13:06) Pearl Harbor Attacked o Gerald had been with his girlfriend and her family when Pearl Harbor was attacked. o They heard the news on her father’s car radio; at the time most cars did not have radios in them. o Gerald had been shaken up and went straight home to see his family. o His family was worried that he would soon be drafted. (14:30) Enlistment and Training  Background o Gerald had attempted to enlist in the Navy and Coast Guard many different times, but they had told him they could not take him because of his bad eyesight. o He was later invited to a town meeting by the Draft Board; at the meeting officers from all branches were telling him that he was the type of man they needed. o Gerald chose to enlist in the Army and ignored the other services that turned him down.  (16:50) Training 1943 o Gerald was sent on a train to Fort Leonard Wood in Missouri for training. o They often had night training exercises in the woods and were not able to catch up on sleep the next day. o They only trained for about a month before being sent across the Pacific. (20:20) Active Duty  (20:25) Australia o Gerald boarded a converted passenger ship and was assigned to the bottom deck. �o His bunk was right next to a large area that had been filled with concrete because it had been hit earlier in a torpedo attack. o They landed in the Northern part of Australia and the ship had got stuck in a sand bar. o Australian tug boats had to help get them out of the sand bar. o Gerald had been part of the 495th Engineer Battalion. o They traveled from Townsville to Brisbane, where they stayed for months working on stacking lumber.  (25:50) New Guinea o Gerald set up shop with other engineers where they worked on cars, tractors, etc... o They often had to build new gears for tractors because the old ones often failed. o Gerald worked about 30 hours a week and the tractors that took up most of his time were eventually discontinued. o He had never actually been in a combat zone, but could always hear firing in the distance. o They were issued weapons, but not given any ammunition and their officer only had one round. o Gerald worked on the island for one year, watching many planes and battles overhead. (34:05) After the Service  Going Home o After hearing the news that bombed had been dropped over Japan, Gerald and many others celebrated and drank for a week. o He arrived back in the US on Christmas Eve in 1945 and landed in San Diego. o Gerald took a train to Chicago where he was discharged.  Life later on o He then began working at Hillsdale Steel making auxiliary transmissions for trucks. o Gerald got married on April 20, 1946 and had two children. o He is now living at the Grand Rapids Veterans Home. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bradley, Gerald G. (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bradley, Gerald G. Description An account of the resource Gerald Bradley was born in Madison, Michigan on April 22, 1922. He graduated from high school in 1938 and attempted to enlist in the Navy and Coast Guard. Gerald was rejected due to his eyesight, but eventually enlisted in the Army in 1943. After training Gerald traveled with the 495th Engineer Battalion to Brisbane, Australia. They remained in Australia for months working before finally being transferred to New Guinea. In New Guinea Gerald worked for about a year repairing tractors and other machinery. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Coast Guard Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-09-08 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BradleyG Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/081b69200371179e9c53bb9e60671fd2.mp4 6dcbc128aaa35b09136a3ae11d43896f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/32398f19d95f02f67384d3b028f5f857.pdf 14c8d9b4637a6bafbcb8288635900691 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Melvin Bowser (00:49:47) (00:05) Introduction • Born outside Toledo Ohio, 9/11/1944 • Stayed on farm until he was around nine years old. • Moved into Toledo. • Was expelled from Catholic school in seventh grade after striking a nun. • Moved out his parents’ house when he was a junior, and moved in with his older brother until he graduated from high school. (07:48) Joining the Air Force • Joined the Air Force in 1962. • Served four years in the air force, until 1966. • Received training at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas. • One D.I. had a very hoarse voice after attempting to hang himself. The men could barely hear or understand his orders. • The D.I. came into the barracks drunk and began throwing the men’s things around, Melvin was on guard duty and the men got in a fight. To cover his tracks, Melvin and other men carried him out into a ditch outside of the barracks. The D.I. never knew what happened. (11:10) Basic Training • The weather was very hot during his basic. • He enjoyed the day-to-day routine of the military. • Believes the Air Force training is more mental than the physical trainings of the Army and Marines. • When he enlisted, he was promised work in electronics, but did not receive it. (13:05) After Basic Training • After Lackland, he was sent to Selfridge Air Force Base in Mt. Clemens, Michigan. • He worked in heating while at Selfridge. He shoveled coal into ten hand-fired furnaces in the barracks to heat them. • He began working in the boiler plants after passing examinations. • While sand blasting a building on a scaffold, the scaffold was hit and he fell thirty feet into a pile of cinders. He injured his spine. However, he did not receive a medical discharge. • After 8 months of pain, he was sent to the hospital to find out what was wrong with his spine. He received an operation to correct the spine injury. • Once returning to Selfridge after surgery, he could not perform his usual duties. • He organized a repair group, men on the base who could repair all of the electrical problems on base. �Met his wife, who lived in Mount Clemens at the time he was serving in Selfridge. (27:36) Having a family • His wife already had a small child before marriage, who was in an orphanage. • He had another daughter shortly after marriage. • He left the service after the birth of his second daughter. He did not want to have to move his children around all of the time. • Seven years later he has another daughter. • His daughter Claudia developed a mental impairment after an extreme fever. • He worked as a maintenance man after he left the service. • He did use his military training with boiler work in his future endeavors as a maintenance man. • � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bowser, Melvin (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bowser, Melvin Description An account of the resource Melvin Bowser served in the US Air Force from 1962 to 1966. He trained at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas, and was then stationed at Selfridge Air Force Base in Michigan. There he worked as a furnace tender and maintenance man on the base, and later switched to electrical work after being injured. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Air Force Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-02-25 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BowserM Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/49f4ecf84005d13423af7b913c86a499.mp4 24d537f457e70235e995b394015f75aa https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d41c5adf3df87a2b7c3167f3cf6cb7fb.pdf a56a3c08112d3d9a0235388d22c34d78 PDF Text Text Jeffrey Bowman (45:04) (00:15) Background Information    Jeff was born in Muskegon, MI on May 27, 1954 His mother worked for Spiegel Catalog and his father worked for Continental Motors He went to Christian school and played basketball, graduating in 1972 (5:50) Enlistment in the Army      Jeff had training at Fort Dix where he spent time marching, running and doing calisthenics They had to get up every day at 4:30 a.m. Jeff was stationed at Fort Dix for two years, driving trucks His squad was sent to Pennsylvania during a massive flood They helped rebuild houses in the area and transport equipment (12:45) Discharged      Jeff was discharged after two years and began driving for Mayflower He worked there for five years, traveling to 48 states and Canada He then began working in Texas transporting computers Jeff began having medical problems and could no longer drive He now lives in the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans (18:35) Marriage    Jeff got married to a woman in Virginia in 1980, but it only lasted one year He was married again in 1985 to a woman from Louisiana, which lasted five years He was married three times and never had any kids (22:50) Trucking Experience   Gerald has made friends all over the country He was able to visit his family members in GA, CA, and TX (27:30) Family Members    Jeff and his sister were both adopted His sister has three sons and lives in FL His mother passed away in 1996 from a heart attack and his father died recently � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bowman, Jeffery (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bowman, Jeffery Description An account of the resource Jeff Bowman was born in Muskegon, Michigan on May 27, 1954. He went to Christian schools in Muskegon and played basketball. Jeff graduated in 1972 and then enlisted in the Army. He had basic training in Fort Dicks and was stationed there for two years. During his time in the Army, Jeff drove trucks and continued to do so after being discharged. Jeff currently lives in the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-05-15 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BowmanJ0135V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ec5c2941f35dfae0ab63d4ecc2b1f11b.mp4 53397b6632ea63b23976d6e7b185f755 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/118293003e7d1b6ee202c166975f3c67.pdf 6fbe74beb93137b303e2520e7f49623b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Chester Bovee Length: 44:13 (00:15) Background Information        Chester was born in Michigan on June 10, 1923 and later grew up in Wisconsin The Depression was hard on his family and his father worked in general labor After graduating from high school Chester began working in an electrician apprenticeship He had wanted to go to college, but did not have the resources to do so Chester had wanted to enlist and fight in the war as soon as he heard about the attack on Pearl Harbor His father did not want him to enlist because he had fought in WWI and been wounded Chester enlisted in the United States Army Air Corps when he was 19 years old (6:55) United States Army Air Corps  Chester went through pilot training school where they flew B-29s and were getting ready for a raid over Japan  They also worked with Stearmans, twin engines, B-25s, and B-17s  He received his wings and was then sent to Roswell, New Mexico before he would be sent to the Pacific  Chester met his new crew in New Mexico, but they had declared the war over before they left (13:10) Contra Field  Chester was sent to San Angelo in Texas where he was working as an electrician for about 1 year before he passed tests to become a pilot  The Air Corps was looking for volunteers to be pilots, bombardiers, and navigators to fight in the Pacific  Chester scored high enough to become a pilot, but not a bombardier or a navigator  He was impressed with his score considering he had not continued his education after high school (15:40) Flight Training  Chester was sent to the University of Montana after he volunteered to be a pilot  They were taking mathematics, history and many other classes that did not seem to have anything to do with flying  After taking courses at the University of Montana he was sent to Santa Ana, California for pre-flight school �    There they learned basic flight rules, commands, and how to communicate with other crew members Chester learned how to lead a crew and became a airplane commander He then went to Thunderbird Field in Arizona where they began working with Stearmans Chester had met his wife in California, who had been working for GE, and they got married in Arizona (20:55) Primary Flight School  Chester was able to fly his first plane alone and it was a thrilling experience  His instructor recommended that he go through bombardier school because he was very accurate  He was told he would be a good bombardier, but would never make it as a fighter pilot  It was easier for him to understand the mechanics of the planes because of his electrician experience  Chester liked flying B-25s better than UC-78s; it was a light bomber with lots of muscle  He liked the B-17s even better, which they flew in bomb training through ranges at Norden Bomb Sight (31:55) B-29s  Chester did not enjoy flying B-29s because they were so large  They could reach an altitude of 37,000 feet, flew faster than B-17s, carried more bombs, and had a longer range  B-29s could fly from the US through the Pacific and back without having to refuel while many other aircraft would have to refuel (33:40) End of War  Chester had been very excited to leave with is new crew and bomb Japan, but was never able to fly with them  He felt that hitting the Japanese with the atomic bombs was a big gamble and that it is still a big problem  He really enjoyed training at Thunderbird Field the most because of the background and scenery  Chester studied very hard to pass all his tests and get promotions  He was in Roswell when he first heard the news that the war was over  Chester was only there for another 3 or 4 weeks before he was discharged (37:45) After Service  Chester moved to Wisconsin with his wife and baby and then later moved to Michigan �  They did not like living in the South because they felt like they were still treated unfavorably because of the Civil War Being in the service had helped to boost Chester’s ego because he proved to himself that he could be a pilot against many odds � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bovee, Chester (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bovee, Chester Description An account of the resource Chester Bovee was born in Michigan on June 10, 1923 and enlisted in the United States Army Air Corps when he was 19 years old. He went through basic training at Contra Field in Texas where he also worked as an electrician. Chester later got a high enough test score to move on to be a pilot and was sent to the University of Montana to take academic courses. He then went to pre-flight school in Santa Ana, California before he was sent to Thunderbird Field in Arizona for primary flight school. After training he had met his new crew in Roswell, New Mexico and they were getting ready to go to the Pacific before they heard that the war was over. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-11-17 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BoveeC Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3ac18aa7436d97eed79ba4336468f474.mp4 5ad3873d18de181b1bef470daa34b1a1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e37fc9b6f626d3ad33524481a4792bfa.pdf 9b8a04b64584c86ace1ff321d094512e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II - wife Betty Bovee Length of Interview: 27:33 (00:00) JS: We’re talking today with Mrs. Betty Bovee of Grand Rapids, Michigan. The interviewer is James Smither, of the Grand Valley State Veterans History Project. Now, can you begin by telling us where you were born, where you grew up. That sort of thing. BB: I was born in Lansing, Michigan. And then from there I ended up in Leslie, Michigan, with my grandmother. JS: Okay. Now what year were you born? BB: April 29th, 1923. JS: Okay. And when did you go to live with your grandmother? BB: My father and mother were born in Lansing. My father and mother took me to Montana, and for some reason they separated. And my father got me and brought me back to his mother. That was my grandmother. JS: And how old were you when you made that move? BB: Ah, probably, I might have been a year old. JS: Okay, so then that’s well before anything that you remember. BB: Yes. JS: So, basically, so were you raised by your grandmother then? BB: By my grandmother. JS: Okay. And were they on a farm? Or in a town? (01:09) BB: Yes, it was on a farm. And we stayed there for quite…and I went to school. And I stayed with her all the time. JS: Okay. Now, did your grandparents, were they able to keep their farm through the ‘30s, through the Depression era? �BB: Yes. They had eighty acres. And they were able to keep it. JS: And what were they growing there? BB: Well, mostly, my grandmother…they had cows and chickens. Things like that. And then they had eighty acres of fields, but mostly that was it. (02:15) JS: Okay. Now, where in Michigan is Leslie? Is it close to Lansing or is it somewhere else? BB: It’s close to Mason. It’s between Mason and Jackson. JS: So it’s kinda south-central Michigan. BB: Yes. JS: So pretty good farm country down there. BB: Yes. Very good. JS: All right. Now, what kind of school did you go to? BB: I went to a country school for several years. That was in Leslie. And then eventually, we moved to Mason. Because my father’s parents had died and so we went to their home. And I started going to a country school there until I was in the sixth grade. And then I went downtown to the school in Mason. JS: Okay. And then did you finish high school? (03:19) BB: Yes. JS: Okay. And what year did you graduate from high school? BB: 1941. JS: All right. And what did you do upon graduation? BB: I went…my grandmother had a sister in Los Angeles and she used to go, well that’s when I was younger, we used to go visit her. And I loved Los Angeles. So after I graduated, I went out there again and I decided I was going to stay. Because I liked it so well. And I stayed with my aunt, that was her sister, and she went back home, and so I got a job and went to work and that’s where I met Chet. (04:21) �JS: Okay. Now did you take that job before Pearl Harbor? Still in ’41, but before the war starts? BB: Ummm, I’m trying to remember. Because at that time, I didn’t think much about it. You know, what was going on. JS: But do you remember hearing about Pearl Harbor? BB: Yes. JS: Do you remember where you were when you heard about it? BB: Yes. JS: Well, where were you? BB: Well, I stayed with my aunt, and you know, I heard about all that but it seems like I just wasn’t involved. JS: Right. BB: You know, just mostly involved with my own life. JS: Did you have any brothers? BB: No brothers. No sisters. JS: Okay, only child. So it wasn’t like you had brothers that might be drafted or anything like that. So you’re not really thinking about those things so much. Okay. Now what kind of job did you take? (05:21) BB: It was a business type job. When I started, I was just working in the mail department. And then I went into filing. And then I went into where I was working for several of the gentlemen there. And so that’s where I was when I met Chet. JS: Okay. And when was it that you met him? BB: He was in Santa Ana, California and the soldiers used to come into Los Angeles a lot. You know. And so, they came in. And there would be dances. There would be different things that they could go to. And so I happened to meet him there. And again, when he was in Santa Ana. We liked each other. (laughs) And at the time, he wanted me to come to Santa Ana. At that time, you went on a bus. I wasn’t too sure the first time, so I didn’t go. But he came and found me again. And I liked that, that he was…you know. So this time, the next time, then I did take a bus to see him. �(06:51) BB: To Santa Ana. And then he asked me to marry him and I said yes. JS: Okay. Now how long was it between the time you met him and when he asked you to marry him? BB: Hmmm. Not very long. (laughs) Male voice: I was afraid I’d lose her. That scared me. JS: He said he was afraid he’d lose you. BB: (laughs) Yeah, he said he was. It wasn’t very long. And then of course, now as it progresses, the thing we need to know is you’re maybe three months at each place, so that’s maybe why different things happen. JS: Right. (07:41) BB: So, I quit my job and umm, that’s when, in Phoenix, I had my father and my step-mother. He had married again. And so, I quit my job and went there. And he was stationed there and we were married there. With my family there. JS: And then once you got married, what kind of living quarters did you have? BB: Um, well, at the time there, he wasn’t…I couldn’t live with him at first. And so I just, I had a room there and I stayed there until eventually I could start going where he was. JS: Now did you eventually get to a place where you could live in an apartment that was off the base that he was stationed on? (08:56) BB: Not really. Not for quite a while. After he went, I went to Bakersfield, and I just stayed there. But I could see him on the weekends, but I couldn’t see him during the week or anything. JS: Right. BB: So I stayed there, and, um…if I saw him, if I saw him on the base, I wasn’t even supposed to say I knew him. So I stayed there and it was like a small apartment and there were other women there. That their husbands were there. And so I stayed there for quite a while, with another girl. And then eventually, I went to Bakersfield. JS: Somewhere in this process, you also had a baby, didn’t you? (10:18) �BB: Well, I went to Bakersfield, and like I said, it might have been three months or so, one of the soldiers that he knew, his wife’s mother lived in Denver and so I went there and she took me to the doctor and I was pregnant. So I went back. And I eventually went back to Arizona, to Tempe, because that’s where she was born. Donna. And he was stationed there too, at the time. So, um… let me see… (11:44) JS: Okay. So the last place that you went to was Roswell, in New Mexico. So when he was there, were you all living together or… BB: Well, first of all, we went to Hobbes. And then, yes, then I could be together with him. And then, we went to Roswell. And I like that real well. And of course, then, Donna was little. You know, she was small. So then the time came when he thought he was going to go overseas, so I went back to my grandmother’s, because I thought he was. And took Donna. But he didn’t have to go overseas. So then eventually, he came back, and we went back to where he was born in Marionette. And we stayed there for quite a while. I had two more children there. In Menomonie, where the hospital was. And he had a job there. And we lived there for quite a while. Eventually, we came back to Lansing. Of course by then, I had three children. Had Donna and Faith and Linda. And then…we were…we were in Marionette for quite a while, but he decided he was going to go back to where he had worked. (13:55) BB: So we went back there and stayed for…and at that time, we lived on a place that used to be an army base. It had small little homes, you know. So we lived there. Eventually, because his mother wasn’t well, we decided to go back to Marionette. JS: Okay. Now, I want to take the story back into the years of the war period for a couple of different things. One of them was, in that time there, before you were married, when you were living in Los Angeles and working and so forth, what was life like at that point? You know, for single women and so forth, at these places. What did you do for fun? What problems did you have to deal with? (14:52) BB: Well, I mostly worked, like I said. At that time, you had to take, they had street cars. Which I liked. And I had a girlfriend. And we just really didn’t do much. It was mostly working. JS: But you must have gone to dances, occasionally. BB: Well, there were things you could go to. I wasn’t too much into that, though. JS: Okay. BB: No, not too much. �JS: But you did go to at least to one, because you met your future husband there. And who was running that? Was it a USO thing, or was it some other group? BB: What? JS: Was that a USO dance, or some other group? (15:46) BB: I was with my girlfriend, when I met him. And he was with a friend of his, too. JS: But as I was asking, the USO sometimes sponsored dances and events. And the Red Cross did, and other groups did. So was this…do you remember who was running this function, or was it just some place that you went? BB: No, just some place we went. JS: Did you go to movies very much? BB: Yes. I did like movies. I did like movies. JS: Okay. Now this is a period when there was a good deal of rationing in place. Were there particular things that you had trouble getting, that you wanted to get? BB: At that time when I was in Los Angeles, my father and step-mother, he had married again, lived in Phoenix, wasn’t it? They lived. So we would trade things. Like you were allowed certain things like coffee and all those different things. And so I would trade, I’d send them coffee and they’d send me nylons. (laughs) It worked out real good. At the time, that’s what we did. (17:03) JS: Okay. Now, since you were working in an office and that kind of thing, were you expected to wear nylons to work? Was that part of… BB: Yes. JS: But was there any sort of provision made in the rationing for that sort of thing or did you just make do? BB: Ah, no. JS: Aside from the nylons, were there other things that you had trouble getting or couldn’t get enough of, at that time? BB: Well, I can’t remember too much. I really, like I said, I lived…I had a place I lived and I really didn’t need much else, you know. �JS: Yeah. So you didn’t need things like gasoline or tires, or some of those things that were a problem. BB: No. JS: Some people have mentioned shoes being a problem. Or clothing. Could you get enough of what you needed for that? BB: Yes. I didn’t have any problem getting those things. I didn’t have much money to get much either. (18:05) JS: All right. Now, once you got married, were there particular difficulties or problems that you had or encountered, because you were having to follow your husband from place to place, as he went through his training. Were there… BB: No. Wherever he was, I would go. On the bus. And they were usually at a place for three months. So I’d find a place to stay. I just…every place he went, I went there. JS: And was it ever difficult to find a place to stay? Or were there people who were in the business of providing rooms for wives and things? BB: I can’t remember having much trouble with that. JS: Now, as you were moving around to these places, were you able to make friends or have other women to kind of talk to, that were in the same situation that you were? (19:11) BB: Well, um, I don’t remember that, too much. JS: But you at least had roommates or people you were sharing houses with. BB: Sometimes. Sometimes I did. JS: Now, over the period there when you were married, were you able to save any money out of his salary, or did you need most of it just to cover expenses? BB: Well, he got a certain amount. That way I could pay for where I was staying. That’s what we did. JS: But were you able to save much, so that you could use that after the war was over? BB: No. �JS: Okay. You just kind of needed what you got. Okay, now, once the war is over, how quickly did things change as far as civilian life? Did things go back to normal or did they stay kind of strange, or just become different? (20:27) BB: Well, like I said, we started our life, of course. And that’s when we went back to his home. And had two more children. And so we stayed there for quite a while. And then eventually, eventually he wanted to, one of the places that he had been, he worked as an electrician, and they had always said, if you want to come back, we’ll find you a place to live. So that’s what we did. And, uh, so we went there. And I had three children. And they found us a…actually, it wasn’t an apartment. But everything was different back then. It was like one big huge room, was everything. And so, like I said, we stayed there and he worked as an electrician. Until we went back to his home. (21:55) JS: All right. Are there particular events or things that happened to you, that you experienced, that tend to come back to you? That you think about or remember, that stand out in your mind? That you haven’t mentioned here yet. BB: Well, when you were going from base to base, of course it was different, and like I said, sometimes I couldn’t say anything to him, you know, if I saw him. So, I’m not sure that anything stands out too much. JS: How would you have wound up on one of these bases? I mean, you said you saw him on the base, you couldn’t acknowledge each other. Did you ever get jobs on the bases or you just visited? (22:50) BB: I did, I remember, at one…if you didn’t have children, you were supposed to work. Now, I was in another room, with a friend of his wife, and she had a child, so she didn’t have to work, so I worked in the cafeteria, serving food to soldiers. JS: Okay. And what was that like? BB: Scary. (Laughter) JS: Why was it scary? BB: I wasn’t used to that. But it worked out good though. I went there, first of all, I was out in the back, washing dishes. I didn’t want to do anything. But then eventually, I got over that and I started behind the counter, serving food. JS: Okay. Now were you mostly working with other women, or were there soldiers doing KP duty alongside you? (23:53) �BB: No. Ususally, if I was living with someone, it was another girl, or something like that. JS: And how did the soldiers behave, when you were serving them? BB: Oh, they were always fine. Never had any trouble with any of them. JS: All right. And were there people watching after you, or looking and making sure that everybody behaved? BB: No. JS: And who did you actually answer to, or report to, when you were working on the base? Ws there a mess sergeant or someone? BB: No. Wherever I was staying, I just stayed there. I never had to answer to anyone. JS: Okay. So were you just basically with a civilian contractor or somebody like that? Somebody that was hired as a group to do the food on the base, or… BB: No. JS: They were just individual jobs that were there that you could apply for? (24:56) BB: Um, that’s the only job that I think I had. Usually, I would, I know that one time I stayed with another girl and we shared the room. But then like that. But that’s the only time I worked. JS: Okay. Now, did any of the bases that you went, did any of the bases have any kind of accommodations for children? Was there any kind of daycare available, or did you just have to deal with that yourself? BB: Um, I don’t think that there was, then. I think that if you had a child, you just took care of the child yourself. There wasn’t anything like that then. JS: Right. And did some of the women help each other out, and look after each other’s kids, and that sort of thing? BB: Not really. Not that I know of. (26:05) JS: And I guess in your situation, you move around so much… BB: Yes, that’s it. JS: It’s hard to have those networks there. �BB: Yeah. Each time he went to a different base, then I went. Eventually, it was so that we could be together. But it wasn’t at first. JS: Okay. Now, when the news came that the war was over, what was your reaction to that? BB: Oh, I was glad. (laughs) ‘Cause I knew he was coming back to where I was, too. JS: So you weren’t disappointed that he didn’t get to go bomb Japan, then? BB: No. (laughs) No. I wouldn’t have liked that. (26:49) JS: A little bit different side of it. Okay. Well, you’ve done a good job of sort of filling in the other side of that story, so people watching these two interviews together, will get that much more out of it. Is there anything else that you’d like to put on the record here, before we close out the interview? BB: Well, I found that it was very interesting that I was able to go around to the different bases, and see places that I would not have seen otherwise. And something that you always remember. You always remember where you were, what happened there. So I’m glad it happened. JS: Well, thank you for taking the time to tell it to me today. (27:33) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bovee, Betty (Interview transcript and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bovee, Betty Description An account of the resource Betty Bovee was born in Lansing, Michigan on April 29, 1923 and later moved to a small town where she grew up on a farm. She graduated from high school in 1941 and moved in with her aunt in Los Angeles, California. Betty spent the majority of her time working while in California, until she met her husband Chet. She quit her job once they were engaged and they got married in Phoenix, Arizona. Betty followed Chet around on different bases that he was stationed at for the remainder of his time in the service. They had three children while he was in the service and they moved back to Michigan once he was discharged. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-11-17 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BoveeB Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/43ba8eac693ebd834fae08a0579dcf63.mp4 0412cf8f90b32d7eca6becac1b7b0828 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/23fc7ffb458b1b7fce475e2757f0e45e.pdf 3b33a440c7ce57e23bd11e29ae79ba80 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project The Michigan National Guard Gary Boucher Interview length: (00:40:17:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:50:00)  Born in 1953 in White Cloud, Michigan (00:00:50:00)  Grew up in White Cloud and graduated from White Cloud High School in 1972 (00:00:56:00)  Eventually moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan and began working a job at General Motors, where he worked until he retired (00:01:04:00)  Just missed the draft for the Vietnam conflict (00:01:15:00) o While he was in high school, Boucher kept getting draft cards and his number finally came up while he was a senior in high school (00:01:36:00) o The whole senior year, he was number four to go to Vietnam and he knew that he was going to be go and there was no way out of it (00:01:48:00) o He prepared himself and they had Army recruiters there for the enlistees and he ended up going to Detroit for his physical (00:02:04:00)  Boucher was raised with his grandfather and they watched the war on TV; the war was hard to explain because they heard different things, such as “we were there but we should not be there and we should get out of there” (00:02:34:00)  One “R” on a draft card meant “one ready” and the numbers of the draft cards corresponded with someone’s birthday and a random drawing (00:03:50:00) o All the men had a number and they knew where they were standing (00:04:24:00) o The person in charge of the war effort decided how many people they would need at the present time and if a man’s number was chosen, then he was drafted (00:04:35:00)  When Boucher found out that the draft was ending, it was kind of a relief because he was young and scared (00:05:08:00) o He could still go to Vietnam for whatever reason, but he was never called up through the draft (00:05:34:00)  Boucher had some friends in the National Guard and he had read up on some of the benefits that they had, such as money for college education, and he viewed the National Guard as a good way to learn about some of the operations of the Army (00:05:49:00) o The Guard was also a good place for a man to go “to grow up and learn that there were other bosses besides you” (00:06:21:00)  He ended up joining the National Guard in February, 1978 (00:06:46:00) o He joined mostly from the accumulated information he had from his friends in the Guard and from his own research (00:07:07:00)  Boucher served in a bridge unit, which was very exciting to see how the bridges were put together (00:07:18:00) o The bridges that the unit used were the newest design that the Army had, called the “medium girder bridge” (00:07:28:00) �      When he joined the Guard, Boucher went to the local National Guard post in Grand Valley and enlisted (00:07:47:00) o He had to sign papers and go to testing to see where he stood in terms of what unit he could go into or if he wanted to be an officer or NCO (00:07:56:00) After he signed up, Boucher went to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, where he spent fourteen to sixteen weeks in training (00:08:17:00) o The base was a “neat” place; the men had new barracks and Boucher recalls seeing photos from the world wars when “you could see through the walls” of the old barracks (00:08:42:00) o The men were shipped from one part of the base to another, based on where they would be staying for a period (00:09:03:00) o Upon arrival, the men were put into units; Boucher’s unit was Alpha 22, which corresponded with his location on the base (00:09:11:00) o Eventually, the men received assignments to drill instructors (00:09:27:00)  When Boucher got off the bus at the Fort, he had all of his possessions with him and when the drill instructors told them to do something, the men did it and they had to run and do the assignment quickly (00:09:33:00)  However, there were so many men there that Boucher could not run and he was doing push-ups before he even got to the door (00:09:45:00)  The drill instructors made the men well aware that they were going to be the men’s mother and father for the next fourteen weeks, so they had better pay attention to detail (00:09:53:00) Boucher was twenty-four years old when he went into the Guard, making him one of the oldest men out of a group of around ninety trainees (00:10:18:00) o At that time, the Army was taking men who could not live in the real world, who were given the choice of either prison or basic training (00:10:30:00) o It took Boucher a little while to adjust to the military lifestyle (00:10:41:00) o Boucher learned to do whatever the drill instructor said and before long, he became a squad leader (00:10:57:00)  As a squad leader, he was treated well, he was responsible for other people and he had privileges (00:11:10:00) There were numerous many tasks that the men had to do, such as learning about the M16, field training, and medical training, etc. (00:11:20:00) o Every month, the men had to go through testing and if they could come out well and pass the tests on everything that they learned, then they were rewarded (00:11:44:00) o The rewards included more leisure time, which Boucher earned by putting his mind to work and following details (00:12:20:00) Boucher was in training representing Michigan and he wanted to be a leader in the National Guard; therefore, when he returned to Michigan, he had the opportunity to go to two military academies that allowed him to continue working up the ranks (00:12:37:00) Being a little older and little wiser was not so much of a benefit; when he went in, Boucher could have been an eighteen year old because he had no clue what he was getting into (00:13:17:00) �   o Whether he was eighteen or twenty-four, he had to go in and start from the beginning (00:13:30:00) There were men who Boucher trained with that had come straight off the streets and were troublemakers (00:13:54:00) o Boucher had a couple in his group and when they had liberty on weekends, they would go out and have a couple of beers (00:14:00:00) o One guy, who was very nice, ended up coming back drunk and it was Boucher’s responsibility to perform a lights out; the man ended up going down to the showers with Boucher (00:14:17:00)  The man ended up getting in Boucher’s face, which the drill instructors did not like and as the classes went on, the man wanted to get out of the Guard (00:14:47:00)  The drill instructors said that they would allow him to get out, but as the paperwork processed and as everyone else went out on the weekends, the man had to stay behind and dig holes in the thick Missouri clay (00:15:03:00)  The drill instructors made him pay one way or another and by the time graduation came around, they had his papers ready; the situation was just the matter of needing an attitude adjustment (00:15:20:00) o At different times in the training, there were people saying that they wanted to kill themselves (00:15:49:00)  When Boucher first got to training, there were men trying to hang themselves; other times, men rolled down some steps in a barrel in an attempt to hurt themselves (00:15:54:00) o On the other hand, if a man was a volunteer, then he knew somewhat what he was getting into for the training (00:16:29:00) During the testing at the beginning of his training, Boucher was told that he could go into a job at headquarters (00:17:12:00) o There were a lot of different jobs that he could do if he was going to the regular Army; however, because he went to the Grand Valley armory and all they had was an infantry unit, a medical unit, and an engineer unit, Boucher wanted to join the engineer unit (00:17:20:00) o He signed up for the engineer unit and was sent to Fort Leonard Wood because it was the engineer training school (00:17:44:00) While in training, Boucher learned about the different bridge layouts and the different types of embankments needed for the process to work (00:17:55:00) o Over the summer, the men were more or less graded on the proper layouts for the bridges (00:18:28:00) The National Guard (00:18:53:00)  As soon as he graduated from basic training, Fort Leonard Wood received the new “medium girder bridge” and Boucher helped unpack them, which gave him knowledge of how to unpack them; when he returned to his unit in Michigan, the bridges were waiting in packages there, so he was one of the first men in his unit to know how the bridge went together (00:18:53:00) �     o When his captains and lieutenants went out recruiting, they took parts of the bridge with them so that people could see (00:19:26:00) o It was a good feeling when they would ask Boucher to go out and help set up the bridge for display because he knew how to do it (00:19:42:00) On the first weekend of every month, the men went to the Grand Valley armory and their sergeants had a meeting to decide what the men would be doing for that month; the tasks changed every month (00:20:20:00) o One month might be learning about gas and the different houses for the gas and antidotes if the men were caught in a gas attack (00:20:40:00) o As well, the men had maintenance reviews; their trucks had to be in a condition that if they were called, the unit could be ready to go anywhere within five minutes (00:21:06:00) o The men would go into the field and would construct the bridges (00:21:28:00)  Most of the times that they went into the field, the men went down to Battle Creek, Michigan and Fort Custer because there was more room at the fort for them to practice building their bridges (00:21:40:00)  The men trained enough that they became quite proficient in setting up their bridges (00:21:50:00) At one point, Boucher went to a basic NCO academy at Fort Custer; the course was two weeks and it was a lot of drill and ceremony, as well as classes that the men had to do every day (00:22:04:00) o The classes involved learning how to become an NCO and involved things such as knowing themselves and their capabilities and what training that they would be going into; the training was building the men up for their next rank (00:22:32:00) Boucher got through the first academy and then went to an advanced training academy in Grand Rapids (00:22:48:00) o At this academy, the training was all bookwork; it was a lot of map reading and busy work that went on every day in his unit (00:22:59:00) o This academy required six drill weekends and once he finished it, Boucher had accumulated enough schooling to become a sergeant first class (00:23:19:00) Boucher served with men who had fought in the Korean War and some who had been wounded in the Vietnam War; the older men were in the Guard just to finish up their time in the military (00:23:42:00) o Once the older men finished their twenty years and reached retirement, they tended to fade away (00:23:59:00) o Boucher also had young men in his squad that were in the Guard for college; there was the money as well as the opportunity to learn about the military (00:24:04:00) Of all the units that he has seen, Boucher believes that his, the 1432nd, had the highest morale (00:24:52:00) o They had great commanders and Boucher’s captain eventually moved through the system and became a two-star general (00:25:04:00) o The men all worked as teams and the moral was wonderful (00:25:24:00)  The maintenance people were there if Boucher needed a bridge picked up or he needed something moved (00:25:30:00) �    They all worked hard and at the end of the day, all the men were happy with what they had done (00:25:41:00) o On their last year with the “medium girder bridge”, Boucher’s unit broke the Army record as far as time setting up the bridge (00:25:52:00)  They could set up different sizes of bridge, but they still had to be up in a certain amount of time; one time, the unit was told that a tank unit was coming and they had to have the bridge up, because the tank unit was coming across and they were not going to stop (00:26:01:00) Boucher’s unit had what where labeled as “mother units” and “sister units” (00:26:42:00) o One of the unit’s “sister units” was in Kansas and men from Boucher’s unit would go to Kansas to train and exchange information with the men in the Kansas unit; the men would spend a week in Kansas several times a summer (00:26:48:00) o If Boucher’s unit went to war, then they would be going to war with the Kansas unit (00:27:17:00) Boucher served fourteen years in the Guard and got out in 1992 (00:27:42:00) o There was nothing major going on in the world at that time and when Boucher went in during peace time, he was told if there was a war, then the regular Army would go and fight the war and the National Guard would stay stateside and take over where the regular Army was (00:28:01:00) o During the First Gulf War, the men were watching the news; because Boucher was a combat engineer, that did not mean anything (00:29:01:00)  He was trained in other things and they could put him in some other type of unit and send him to the war (00:29:11:00) Like anything else there were exciting thing, such as seeing the bridges built or doing training in front of generals (00:29:44:00) o However, there was always the down time and Boucher did not always care for some of the training that they had to do (00:30:09:00) o The bottom line was that the men had to do all of it because the Army was training them to save their lives (00:30:25:00) Post-Military Life (00:30:42:00)  When Boucher left the Guard, people in his unit were being spread out and there was some “head-butting in the unit” (00:30:42:00) o At that time, Boucher had a decision to make; he had a young family and a job that was working a lot of overtime, which he missed due to his Guard commitments, and he had to weigh staying in the Guard versus caring for his family (00:30:09:00) o He never regrets join the Guard (00:31:33:00)  Boucher already had a job when he joined the Guard, so he was set in that regard and he was learning from college teachers that the Guard brought (00:31:53:00) o As well, he learned how to pay attention and how to work side-by-side with people as a team, lessons that he has brought into his everyday life (00:32:06:00)  He believes that every young man should go into the Guard and serve his time because it really helps (00:32:33:00)  While at General Motors, Boucher was a machine operator and was in inspections; ultimately, he did a lot of jobs while at the company (00:32:43:00) �    o As far as some of the engineering aspects, they taught him how to pay more attention to detail, which he used in both the Guard and at General Motors (00:33:04:00) Boucher gave everything that he had and his superiors recognized that fact and rewarded him and it made him feel good to stand up there and receive them (00:34:03:00) o The ability to meet high-ranking officers as an enlisted man was a big thing and he was able to go to the national military balls (00:34:24:00) o He just wanted to build himself up and he did not worry so much about others; instead, they built themselves up and the sense of accomplishment helped build their moral (00:34:58:00) The ability to see what they had done helped with the sense of accomplishment that the unit had (00:35:49:00) o Once they had complete the measurements, the men wanted to watch as the bridge was built piece-by-piece was the biggest accomplishment (00:36:26:00)  There were so many things that could go wrong, such as the bridge being off center or something not working right (00:37:13:00) On occasion, things did not work out well (00:37:50:00) o There were a lot of pins to complete the bridge and if sand got into the pin holes, then the pins would not go in and then they had problems (00:37:53:00) o Little things like that slowed down the process (00:38:09:00) o There were times when teams were sent out that should have known how to set up a bridge and Boucher would go out and realize that the chosen position would not work to build the bridge (00:38:25:00)  On a couple of times, they found out too late and everything became stuck and their superiors came down hard on them (00:38:45:00) Boucher had an experienced bridge sergeant who knew the job and after a meeting with the other officers and high-ranking NCOs where they would decide the location of the bridge, Boucher would tell the sergeant, who would get all the trucks and trailers ready (00:39:08:00) o All the training that Boucher had he could pass on to others (00:39:44:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Boucher, Gary (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boucher, Gary Description An account of the resource Born in White Cloud, Michigan in 1953, Gary Boucher just missed the draft for the Vietnam War. However, based on input from several of his friends and his own investigation, Boucher joined the Michigan National Guard in 1978. Following training at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, he served in an engineer unit whose main mission was the construction of bridges. Boucher served in the Guard for fourteen years and left in 1992. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. National Guard Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-10-20 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BoucherG Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0323733507bec532e6f0c4dbde246aa7.mp4 02862ee9e8066b7e043424929d7f9c93 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/253ddd4017871d9a7fcada255597d0e1.pdf 257dfb62691e9413babfdb2973c990c5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Steve Byers (00:17:12) (00:34) Retirement from Service • • • • • Steve retired from active duty in August of 1997 He entered the Navy Fleet Reserve and could be called back to duty at any time Steve officially retired from the Navy in 2000 He was sad when he left the service and knew that he would miss many of the friends that he had made He had to adjust to a new way of life after his time in the service (2:00) Going Back to Work • • • Even at work it was hard to adjust to civilian life In the military, you always knew where you stood and who you could trust He became an aircraft structural mechanic (3:40) Experience in the Service • • • • • • Steve found that time in the service allowed him to have more of an open mind He traveled from the far East to the Mediterranean to Mexico, experiencing many different types of cultures He can now more easily relate to other’s experiences Steve thinks the news is highly sensationalized He feels more empathy for people in desperate situations Regardless of his political views, he will always support US troops 100% (6:15) Lessons Learned in the Service • • • • • He found that safety is a high priority Every young man in the US from 18-20 should have mandatory time in the service Steve acquired new and useful skills from about 50 different Navy courses that he took He gained respect and has worked in many exciting jobs There are better conditions in the Navy than the Army, and it is even better if you go in with a college education � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Byers, Steven R. (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Byers, Steven R. Description An account of the resource Steve Byers had been in the Navy for 20 years when he retired in 2000. He discusses the benefits of military life and some of the differences between military and civilian experiences and attitudes. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Byers, Zach (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-04-23 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ByersS Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0590b43d105665fb98c56a08ca477a75.mp4 381caa12ab6472827e6840ad233a676e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6aba79fdc8dcbdd35340bdc4ea9edd79.pdf 8d9aa4bee0d9cf24e6b244991de80b24 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee: Russell Buys Length of Interview: 00:44:30 Background  Born December 27th, 1922  Served in the Army during WWII  Highest rank was platoon sergeant  He enlisted in the Army [Michigan National Guard, 126th Infantry Regiment] in 1940, because a couple of his friends had joined the armed forces.  He originally wanted to join the coast guard, but his father said no. Then he suggested the Navy, but his father said no to that too. So, they decided to join the Army.  After they graduated from high school in June 1940, they signed up and were sent out to Camp McCoy, Wisconsin, to train for the summer.  While they were there they heard rumors that they were going to be activated. After they got back, in October, they were activated.  He was aware of what was going on in Europe, especially when he was started training. (2:10)  When he went in, he became a cook for two and a half years. Eventually though he was reassigned.  After [during?] the Buna campaign [New Guinea, 1942-43], he decided that he wanted to do more than just cook. (3:15)  One day, when he went to go look for rice, he walked right into a firefight and got shot in the shoulder. Training (4:50)      He would describe training as crude. When he joined the Army in 1940, they were still using WWI equipment. His first uniform was something that looked like it came from WWI. After they got activated, then they began to use more up-to-date equipment. He was in heavy weapons when he first went in, and they would practice using an old stove pipe because they did not have any equipment. They lived in tents and their kitchen stoves were all wood fed. No one knew what they were getting themselves into at the time and he found the experience very adventurous. He did not mind at all. Active Duty (6:15)   After he was activated, he would go to Australia [May 1942]. He landed in the southern part of the country, and they would be headed to New Guinea. �                          He took a train all the way up the coast [and camped for some time near Brisbane], and took a boat to New Guinea. While they were at sea, the Coral Sea Battle broke out [this was earlier, when they were going to Australia]. (7:05) They would escape it by going around it. When he arrived, he thought Australia was quite a strange country. (7:40) Everything there was years behind the United States. He remembers being in a hotel where they still had barrels of beer. They were not so far behind us, but it was interesting. The people there were wonderful and treated them very well. They knew what they were over there for, but no one had any idea of when they were going into combat, or what it would be like. (9:00) After he left Australia, he would go to Port Moresby, New Guinea. Their battalion, the 2nd battalion, 126th Infantry, 32nd Division, would go be part of the Ghost Mountain Boys, who would cross the [Owen Stanley] mountains in New Guinea in order to fight the Japanese. It was terrible. The equipment was very heavy and difficult to carry. They did not have any food either. Any food that was sent to them would go down the mountain and they would not get it. The trip was terrible, but he’s happy to say that he made it. Once they made it over the mountains, then the real combat started. (10:30) That was very traumatic. You would be doing your job, and suddenly the guy standing next to you would just fall down, because he got shot. One of his friends got shot and he picked him up and got him out of there, but he would die two hours later. That was their introduction to what combat is. Those were the kinds of memories that stayed with him forever. Nowadays they call it PTSD; then they called it TS, tough shit. McArthur, who was a very controversial figure of the time, would do a lot of island hopping. He would chase the Japanese, and when they vacated the island, the Americans would take it over. (12:00) When they would get to a new island, they would take control of the ports, so the Japanese would not be able to get supplies. Consequently, many of them would starve. After finishing in New Guinea, he would go to the East Indies; to Leyte; to Luzon. They were defeating the enemy as they went, which was their ultimate goal. He has no special memories or recollections of his time in the military. (14:25) He would be awarded a Bronze Star, but did not know it. It was not until he got back to the States and after a few years, someone had pointed out to him that he had earned a Bronze Star that he knew he had one. He would get a copy of the paperwork and talk to his congressman and eventually get his award. They were fighting a battle in Luzon, earning the award. But by the time they had gotten the award down, he had already gone home. He would also win the Purple Heart twice and a silver star. He would also earn an award for courage. �                          The Japanese fought much differently than the Americans did. (16:45) They would fight at night, while the Americans would not come out of their fox holes at night. One of the last gun fights he was in was a banzai attack, in the middle of the night. They came up over the hill, just screaming, trying to scare the men. I had worked for some. While they were fighting in the Philippines, they had to fight in the mountains, which were completely different from their jungle fighting, which they had been used to via training and his previous combat experience. He would start out as a private in the Army and would eventually work his way up to a platoon sergeant. (9:05) He would be in charge of the 3rd Platoon of his company. They never had a full platoon. Instead he would be in charge of 30 men most of the time, though sometimes it would go way down. He would keep in touch with family through letters. (21:10) Sometimes it would take a while, but he was patient. They army would also go through the letters and sensor them. One time his buddy had died, and he wrote the man’s wife a letter. He would get it back, with a lot of it scratched out. He learned to keep his distance from the other men, just in case something happened. (22:35) He said that it was something you had to learn, because you spend every day with these men, and they were suddenly gone. It was terrible, but you had to live with it. There was nothing lower than infantrymen. Even when he had gotten some time off, it would not last. When he did get time off he would play cards. They also had baseball, boxing, horseshoes, and write letters. (24:30) He would see Bob Hope while he was there, and he was bored to death. There was someone else who came, but he can’t remember. They also had movies to entertain them and church services to attend if they wanted to. They would also do more training in down time as well. He would say that morale was high amongst the men. (26:50) He did witness some tension between the officers and soldiers. The stress would begin to get to both the soldiers and officers, and some of them would begin to kill other soldiers and people. One soldier started to go a little crazy and he sent the man to the medic. One officer there was doing awful stuff to him men, so they got the word out and he was taken away to have a couple days off. He saw men get hurt, but the saddest thing to him was seeing men lose their minds. (29:05) Some of them would keep a personal diary, but he did not. He would read a diary of one of the men he traveled with, and he remembered some stuff that he had forgotten. He would receive his discharge papers in June; the war would end in August. He saw that the war was coming to an end by that time. He never felt the advantage going into battle, but they had confidence. �Post Duty (32:45)                   After he left, he was put on a Navy ship and they stopped somewhere, can’t remember where. Then they would go through the Panama Canal, and landed in West Virginia. He smiles when he came home and remembers the parades and welcome home that he received. (33:10) From there he was shipped to Fort Sheridan. And from there he was given $25 and told to find his way home. He would take a train to Milwaukee and then take the Clipper to Muskegon. When he finally made it back to the USA, he was happy to get back. But that ran out of gas soon after. He was told to run a patrol, but he really didn’t want to, so he tried to talk his way out of it. His folks had picked him up and his mom had his bedroom all ready when he got home. Of the six children that his parents had, five of them were in the service, all at the same time. He was the first one home. One brother was in Hawaii, another was in the Air Force in Mississippi, another was in England on D-day, and the other was in the infantry in Okinawa. (36:20) Then when he got back, his younger brother would join the Navy, so there were still five of them in there for a while. It was somewhat difficult to readjust to civilian life. The hardest thing was adjusting to a sleep schedule. When he got out, he was free. So he and his buddy bought a convertible and saw the country. He would go into construction, and work with his dad. He stays in contact with other veterans who served, but there aren’t very many left anymore. They also keep in contact with wives and widows as well. (39:10) Most of the guys who had gone in with him were older, so many of them are not around anymore. After reading some of the stuff that historians got it right, he finds they were pretty close. (40:00) He can’t read anymore, because of bad eyes, but he used to read a lot, mostly about the war stories that people wrote about. He enjoyed military life. In 1950, he had a chance to go back in the guards, and he would make 1st sergeant pretty quickly. He would serve again for 3 years. He has a grandson who serves in the Air Force. Been there for 12 years now. (44:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Buys, Russell (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Buys, Russell Description An account of the resource Russell Buys enlisted in the Michigan National Guard shortly after graduating from high school in 1940. A few months later, his unit was activated and sent to Louisiana to train. He initially served as a cook with the 2nd Battalion, 126th Infantry Regiment, 32nd Division. He sailed with them to Australia, and was then shipped to New Guinea, where he and his battalion marched over the Owen Stanley Mountains toward Buna. Toward the end of the Buna campaign, he decided that he wanted to do more than cook, and became a rifleman and got himself wounded in the shoulder. He recovered and stayed with the unit through further fighting in New Guinea and the Philippines before rotating home in 1945. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bolthouse, Marvin (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-05-27 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BuysR0060V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1155a9d4773db85aa02a013cdc7fb358.mp4 d11dd6b82bbe313910ea848b75e5c71f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0adecce799b2165c21d6710609f08ef5.pdf 80f0ee8aa0e667e7dfa937edd920ac14 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oliver L. Butler (29:49) (00:06) Grand Rapids Michigan • When Pearl Harbor was hit, Oliver was working at Imperial Metal Products • Oliver enlisted in the military after the attack (00:37) South Pacific • He was stationed throughout the Pacific Theatre • He flew over enemy installations and took pictures of the targets and then returned to bomb them • He said he flew combat missions but didn’t serve in action where the bombs were being dropped • Oliver was a Staff Sergeant at the time • Oliver was attached to a dive bombing squadron and on call with them whenever he would need to go take pictures of a strip or camp that needed to be bombed • He had 5 brothers that were also in the military • Oliver first found out about the Atomic Bomb after it was dropped (4:10) Midway • The food was brought in from Australia, mutton, and boiled in big pans. He said that there would be inches of lard on the top and raw meat still below. He will not to this day eat mutton. • He said the guys tied together gas cans and created a boat to go on the ocean and they would drop grenades and grab the fish that came up to eat them. They had to be careful because there were sharks out there also. (5:50)VD and VJ Day • They were very happy about the end of the war that they stayed up and danced all night long. This was also when he and his now wife set a wedding date • Everybody was very happy about this. He states that he would not join the war today if he was the same age when he entered World War II because the politics of war have changed. • During The Korean War, he was in reserves and missed being called into war because he was in the service recovering from malaria. He said that during the Korean War they couldn’t make bullets fast enough to fight against them and it was realized too late. �• • • (8:30)Oliver says he lost at least half of his friends to the war. Very few came home but luckily for his mother all of her sons came back alive. After the war ended it took Oliver 4 months to get back to the states Oliver went through photography school in Pensacola, Florida (11:00)Midway • His unit spent 4 hours on and 4 hours off patrolling the island. He was detached from his squadron so he was not associated with the targets that he pictured to be bombed. • His primary job was escorting the submarines into Midway and would take pictures if needed • On one mission they couldn’t get the wheels down on the plane so they landed ‘belly up’ and he rolled out over the wing and messed up his knee. They sent him to Pearl Harbor for 6 days to recover and then back to his squadron. He states that he couldn’t get back in the plane when he returned so the captain came out and put him back in the plane. • (12:50) Mail was delayed many times, so receiving it was rare. • (14:30) Oliver talks about his opinion on the war we are in at this time and talks about the inadequate training being given • During Korea he was a Training Sergeant in the reserves in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and the trainees had no respect for the Sergeant over them. (16:00) Pictures are shown about his squadron • He talks about diving in a plane at 15000 feet saying that your nose will bleed, your mouth will split blood, and your eyes will be in pain. They call it 14G’s that the pull is so strong you can not raise your fingers up. • Curtis Helldivers, A25,’s is what he flew. He shows pictures of this also. • (19:26) Newspaper article showing the 3rd wing that Oliver was attached to in the Grand Rapids Haerald (newspaper) It was the 3rd wing that he was attached to when in was in photography school. The article was about a guy in the service that committed suicide because of the pressure during the war • (20:20) Clipping when his squadron went over Truk. They were the first squadron to take pictures of Truk before they dropped the bomb on Japan. • Oliver’s pictures made the maps of the strips all over the island that showed the positions of everything from the terrain of the island to the defenses they had to protect the island for the military • (21:49) He has a piece of mail that he explains how they had to address the letters when they wrote home. • (23:15) Oliver spent a total of 13 months on Midway Island �• • (25:00) He says that he didn’t get home for about 3 years and neither did two of his brothers who were both as active in the war as he was. One was on a LST ship which Oliver calls a sitting duck ship because they were a major target during the war. (25:39) Something that happened to his Commanding Officer of the Polish Squadron, BMSB 332, he was on loan till they formed the 9th Marine Division, he talks about something that happened to Commanding Officer Christenson off camera ��������� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Butler, Oliver J (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Butler, Oliver J Description An account of the resource Oliver Butler was an aerial photographer for the Marines during World War II and was based on Midway Island. He spent 13 months here taking pictures of terrain and enemy defenses. He remained in the reserves during the Korean War where he was a Training Sergeant. Photographs appended to interview outline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Snuder, Britany (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Marine Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-05-24 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ButlerO Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c1540986baa190a277b57abeef0d3ba0.mp4 ebe4fe2afd45e57885642f16de73d087 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7b817637ef06a9f082b0f7fc7d3cb57f.pdf e49988b9d683ebb07543b6ca4a5f04ab PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project James Butler (59:05) (00:11) • Born in Cleveland, Ohio 1946 • His father was in the Navy in World War II. • His mother worked at the bomber plant in World War II. • When he turned 17, he had began getting calls for the draft. • Drafted into the Army. • There was a two-week period where he could join another service, he decided to join the four year Navy. • He began basic training in 1965. • After basic training he was promised to be sent to school. • He was placed in the seabees. • He was trained with the Marine Corps for combat training. • Went to California, and learned how to operate heavy equipment. • He was assigned to M Seabee Six, Which was serving in Da Nang, Vietnam. • After he was finished with Basic, he saw that there was a notice for volunteers to go to Antarctica. • He decided that penguins couldn’t shoot, and decided to take the assignment to go to Antarctica. (03:48) Draft Notice • Right after high school, his entire neighborhood was sent draft notices, including seven boys who received them on the same day. • His basic training was at the Great Lakes training facility. • Doesn’t remember basic training being very hard. • Believes the military gave him a lot of organizational training. • He was in basic training for twelve weeks. (05:58) • It was more intense, because the marines do not like the navy men. • It was also more intense because it was all combat training. (06:30) Antarctica • He was scheduled to fly to Da Nang in a couple of weeks, when he saw the notice for the Antarctica trip. • Because of his acceptance to the Antarctica program, he did not have to go to Da Nang. • He worked construction in McMurdo, Antarctica. • They built buildings and warehouses for storage. • He flew to Antarctica. It took two weeks. • They flew to Rhode Island, to California, to Hawaii to Pago Pago, to Tahiti, to New Zealand, • He spent six months in Antarctica. • His unit, Seabee Unit had about 100 people. �• He rebuilt tunnels in Byrd Station, Antarctica. • At Byrd, the highest temperature was 20 below zero. (10:50) School and Second trip to Antarctica • Went to Blasting School after Antarctica in 1967. • He became a blasting expert for the Navy. • He went back to Antarctica on a coast guard ship. • He spent his six months in Palmer Station. • Built a scientific station in Palmer, three stories high that could house thirty people. • He used explosives to make piers and docks for ships. • Only dealt with British and New Zealanders while in Antarctica. (14:45) Vietnam • Was about to go back to Antarctica, and was sent to Vietnam. • He was married, and then three weeks later sent to military training to go to Vietnam in 1968. • He was flown from California to DaNang. • Remembers DaNang smelling absolutely horrible. • Most of his time in Vietnam was spent doing construction. • He built mainly roads and piers. • More bombing began to occur after the end of the bombing campaigns in the north. • The airbase had been hit, delaying his return to the United States. • He believes he had a pretty decent experience in Vietnam. (17:50) Time in the Military • Enjoyed the four years he spent in the Navy. • He made good friends while in Vietnam. • He has Antarctica reunions every other year. (19:00) • Went to Baldwin-Wallace College. • While in school, he joined the Naval Reserve program. • He stayed in the reserve for two years. • After graduation from Baldwin-Wallace, he applied to be an officer, which he was denied due to staff cuts. • He then joined the Army Reserve and spent four years at an Army hospital unit, the 256th hospital unit. He was also denied an officer position there after four years as being a Staff Sergeant. • He joined the Coast Guard as an enlisted man. He applied for the OCS school and was accepted. After graduating from OCS school, he was commissioned as an officer. • He worked in Muskegon as the coast guard group, and then was transferred to Grand Haven. • He worked in both administration and search and rescue programs while in the Coast Guard Reserve. • He retired from the Coast guard as a lieutenant commander. (23:06) Vietnam Continued • He lived in screened barracks. �Showers were provided. It was very hot in Vietnam, reaching 120 degrees. He would work at a catholic orphanage in DaNang helping the orphans during their free time. • They spent Christmas with the orphans. • Some of the Vietnamese nuns could speak English. • He worked with many Koreans while in Vietnam. • They worked with him on construction. • His unit was awarded the civil action ribbon. • They saved some children from being burned to death in a trash fire. • He would write letters to his wife, and she to him while he was in Vietnam. • Compared to Antarctica, where he could speak to his wife via Ham radio. • He went to Hawaii for R&R with his wife, and then had to go back to Vietnam, he describes this as the worst part of his service. • He had Sundays off from work, and would spend those days either on the beach or in the orphanage. • He was able to listen to news while in Vietnam. (32:46) Work and memories of the Coast Guard • Spent 24 active years in the military over a 33-year span. • While he was not in the military, he worked construction, but there was very little work. • He also worked in materials purchasing and sales for construction companies. • During his search and rescue work in the command center, the entire west side of Michigan had to report to his office. • His most memorable search and rescue experience included a couple that skinny dipped off the side of a sailboat, and could not keep up with the boat as it moved through the water. They were in the water for a day and a half, but were rescued. • • • � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Butler, James (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Butler, James Description An account of the resource James Butler served in the United States Navy during the Vietnam War. He evaded earlier tours of Vietnam, by serving on two missions to Antarctica as part of a construction crew. However, he eventually served time in DaNang, Vietnam, once again as a construction member. After his active service, Butler served time in both the United States Naval Reserve and the United States Army Reserve. After failing to secure an officers position in either branch, he joined the United States Coast Guard Reserve. He became a Lieutenant Commander and served until his retirement. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McCauslin, Kelly (Interviewer) Spring Lake District Library (Spring Lake, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-03-22 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ButlerJ Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c5d678573174e5abfc69f3360eb7a31f.mp4 a4e4cdd5f7876a5d18fcdd64ad0332d0 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bfc2dc422cdf5ecbfebc2fefa3d3f950.pdf 2875fe76f690880c2d5b176f1e5194f3 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Charles “Chuck” Butkus Korean War Total Time: Childhood and Pre-Enlistment (00:30) • • • • • • • Born in Waukegan, Illinois, in 1930 Father was an electrician Remembers getting information from the radio during World War II. Finished high school. Attended college to become an engineer. Entered Marquette University, however learned that he drew a low draft number for the Korean War. Decided to join the Air Force. Training (04:52) • • • • • • • • Attended Basic Training at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas, and while he was attending the training there was a huge influx of men who needed basic training, and the base became quite crowded. During the winter, they were in temporary tents. They were given 3 choices and he chose meteorology. (06:45) He was sent to Chanute Air Force Base and had to wait around for several months for a spot to open up in the meteorology program. When they did finally get in the school was 16 months. (08:25) He was then trained to use weather balloons, which involved more training. They would send up the balloons with gauges and measuring equipment that would send back a signal to the ground so that they could be recorded. Stayed at Chanute for 7 months total. He was able, on several different occasions, to hitchhike home from the base, as they were very close in Central Illinois. Active Duty (12:30) • • • Was shipped to Camp Stoneman, and was then sent to Hawaii by boat. They were shipped on the USS Mauer. And it took them 4 days to get across. In Hawaii, he was based at Hickam Air Force Base until his clearance passed and he was able to. (15:15) He was then shipped to the Eniwetok Atoll in the Marshall Islands, where they were assigned to take weather observations. They took four readings a day. They were doing this for general weather observations. �• • • • • • • • • • (20:05) They were there in for two nuclear tests, where he had to run weather tests every three hours. He experienced the tests first hand from ships that were far out at sea or on the islands. He was then moved to Hawaii to be a drop sonar operator. These operators would drop instruments from planes rather than from balloons. (26:05) Their squad flew retrofitted B-29s which were made specifically for their weather observation duties. (28:50) Their real objective, rather than weather, was radiation. They monitored the air for radiation to figure out whether the Soviets. He lived in barracks during his time in Hawaii. His missions were 3 day missions. The first day, they would prepare the instruments, the second day they would do the flight, and the third day they would analyze the data. The flights would usually take 14 hours and they would normally fly 2 missions a week. (35:00) After 18 months in Hawaii, he spent another 18 months in Eniwetok for the Castle Thermonuclear Test Project (38:29) He ended up being exposed to radiation during the tests. He volunteered to go back to the test island to relieve the other weathermen on Bikini. His job while there was to take basic weather readings. He did that four times, and took heavy doses of radiation. He ended up having cancer in several places and melanoma, which might be traceable to this radiation. They never collected the film radiation test strip that they gave him to measure his exposure, which he still has. There were six Hydrogen bomb tests done during his time there. After this service, he was discharged in Hawaii as a Tech Sergeant. Post Service (43:37) • Went home and bought a car once he got back. • Worked as an IBM programmer for a year after he got back. The computer took up a floor of the Great Lakes Naval Station. • Worked in the Telecom industry for 20 years. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Butkus, Chuck (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Butkus, Chuck Description An account of the resource Charles Butkus served in the Air Force as a meteorologist during the Korean War. He was born in Waukegan, Illinois, and his father was an electrician. He completed high school and some college before he joined the Air Force due to his low draft number. He specialized as a meteorologist, and served in the South Pacific during the atomic testing program and in Hawaii taking readings from weather balloons. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Air Force Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-02-03 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ButkusC Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1bac57a49cc290f3ae24df22bab0f995.mp4 de4732265ece703cce4acd90ad6b63c0 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/81ea3c9f213b63f4f758da1ca4665ff0.pdf 75b1bbd3240fc8a28a90cca438ff699f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Donald Buteyn (01:46:00) Introduction (00:16) Family and childhood (01:46) • Buteyn mentions that he grew up in Wisconsin, about 20 miles south of Fond du Lac. His parents were both trained morticians. He mentions that after a while his dad took a job working for a casket company in Milwaukee, WI and that he was on the road for 52 years. Buteyn briefly describes his family history. Tells of how his grandfather on his dad’s side had been a Dutch immigrant who had originally been a guard guarding the Haag. Also mentions that his grandfather on his mother’s side had been a pacifist in Belgium and had immigrated to the wilderness of Wisconsin in the 1870s. (0:02:40) • Pre-enlistment (0:02:41) • Graduated high school in June 1942. Buteyn shares his thoughts about the Nazis invasion of Poland back in 1939. Started college in Ripon, WI where he joined a fraternity of 39 guys. (0:04:37) Buteyn mentions that the day of Pearl Harbor he was listening to FDR’s speech on the radio. Shares his grandfather’s thoughts on Pearl Harbor and the Dutch Navy. Afterwards, he talks about how he and his frat buddies joined the ROTC at Ripon College. Briefly describes Silas Evans, college president, and the type of man he was. Buteyn mentions that they started training with broomsticks and eventually received 21 World War I Enfield rifles and practiced with them. • • Enlistment and Training (0:07:29) • In December, 1942 Buteyn mentions that he and his frat buddies enlisted and were sent to Great Lakes Naval Base where they received their medical shots. • Buteyn describes his time at Great Lakes Naval Base and the short visit to his parents to Milwaukee. Was stationed there for 10 days. From there he boarded a train to Denver where he changed trains and took another train to Fort Warren, Wyoming. (0:10:33) • While at Fort Warren he describes his basic training in some detail. He mentions learning how to march and fire a gun. Was stationed there for about �a year. (0:12:45) Also, mentions his time at Fort Worth for 3 months where he did more training. • First started training with water-cooled machine guns and mortars when he served with the 303rd Reg., Company M, at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. Buteyn describes how he would have to crawl on the ground under barbed wire while getting shot at. (0:14:10) • It was at Fort Leonard Wood that Buteyn mentions becoming a cadre (trainer for other recruits). Recounts a story of a man’s encounter with a rattlesnake while practicing being under fire. (0:18:11) Was based at Leonard Wood for 9 months. • Tells of an encounter in St. Louis while on leave of where he served as a firefighter to put out the blaze at Mark Twain National Park. (0:19:21) • After 9 months there, he was sent to San Luis Obispo, CA in the spring of 1944 where he and 20 others were interviewed for an ASTP assignment at the Univ. of South Dakota in Vermillion, SD. Briefly describes his 8-month stay at the Univ. of South Dakota where he got math and science credit. (0:24:08) From there he was sent to Camp Cook Army training Base for amphibious training under Marine commanders. • Buteyn mentioned that after 6 weeks there they were at the Marine base near San Diego conducting amphibious exercises aboard the USS Hunter Liggett off St. Nicholas Island where the navy would practice with them in how to storm an island. (0:27:58) In December 1944 they were supposed to be transferred to the Pacific from Los Angeles but then got orders telling them that they were being shipped out to New Jersey by train. • Buteyn mentions how he spent Christmas in New York City. He describes shipping out on New Year’s Day, 1945 out of New York Harbor with 53 vessels and describes their 13 day voyage across the Atlantic to France. • While crossing the Atlantic, Buteyn recounts how they lost 3 freighters to Uboat attacks and how they dropped depth charges to scare the U-boats off. Then Buteyn mentions his arrival in Le Havre, France and the sinking of his ship in the harbor in January of 1945. (0:32:33) France (0:32:34) • While stationed near Le Havre, rations were short and guards were assigned to guard the cook tent. From Le Havre, Buteyn mentions boarding an old freight car and being shuttled through Brussels, Belgium to the edge of the Netherlands. �• Buteyn described how during the 1st week of February the British had tried crossing several rivers with no success because of German artillery. Also mentions finding 88mm shell casings in the apple orchard ¾ mile away from the church he was at. Further mentions that for a short time his company was under British command, U.S. 7th Army, and then U.S. 9th Army. (0:37:04) • After this experience, they were moved to the west bank of the Rhine near the city of Bonn at the end of February 1945. Rumor had it that Eisenhower had told Bradley that the Germans were evacuating their trucks over the bridge at Remagen into Germany. (0:39:01) • Detailed description of the events that took place at the Remagan Bridge and the crossing into Germany. Buteyn explains the condition of the bridge and the difficulties involved in crossing it, as well as observing engineers construct pontoon bridges for vehicles to cross. (0:42:05) He mentions that it took them 4 to 5 days to get their equipment over the Rhine. Germany (46:07) • Buteyn describes how for several days he and his company stayed hidden while the Germans on the 700 foot bluffs shelled their position with heavy artillery. Afterwards, more help arrived and Bradley got the go ahead from Eisenhower to push forward which they did and got down to the city of Calhoun. (0:46:07) Briefly tells of how the Nazis instituted slave labor in their factories. Buteyn mentions that he was part of the the force sent south from Remagen to surround large numbers of Germans, who then surrendered to them. (0:50:28) Buteyn describes the poor conditions of the German veterans and young German high-schoolers who surrendered. • While in the city of Cologne, Buteyn mentions that they were ambushed by SS troops who were held up in closed houses. With a few bazooka rounds they silenced their guns. (0:56:05) • On the march to Dusseldorf, Germany he tells of how SS troopers set up antiaircraft guns to fire shells which would explode and unleash shrapnel on U.S. soldiers. Buteyn mentions that his squad was separated from their platoon and ran into two wounded Germans. • Buteyn describes how his unit was pinned down by enemy artillery and how he went back across a muddy field to get more ammo. On his way back to his men, he describes how he was wounded in the right ankle by a piece of shrapnel. Later mentions that 3 men carry him back to safety and take him and the two Germans back to a house. (1:00:51) They were held up in that house for two days. �• Buteyn describes in brief detail his involvement in Germany in liberating over 200 Nazi-occupied concentration camps. He remembers that while liberating the concentration camp at Flossenburg [ed. note: probably a different camp— Buteyn was wounded before US forces reached that camp] he learned that Dietrich Bonhoeffer had been hung. He describes the horrific experiences that he witnessed while librating people from Nazi concentration camps. Relates how he had nightmares about his experiences later. (1:24:42) • Buteyn mentions an encounter with a man in one of the concentration camps who came up to him and told him, “Jesus Christ will prevail.” Later on he mentions running into this same man at a lecture series about concentration camps at Berkeley CA in 1960. [ed. note—Buteyn met Martin Niemoller in Berkeley, but Niemoller was not freed by allied forces until May, and was not at the camps in the area where Buteyn was.] (1:29:17) • Buteyn tells of an encounter with a German widow who let them borrow her short-range radio and from that heard that FDR had died on April 12, 1945. (1:02:53) Buteyn then mentions being picked up by an ambulance and taken to a German field hospital. Recuperation Period (1:09:01) • While at a field hospital in occupied Germany, Buteyn remembers seeing 122 men with at least one amputation. Also mentions in some detail how he was the only American there who escaped surgery. Was there for 5 weeks. (1:09:01) Afterwards, he mentions being sent to an English hospital across the channel for 4 to 5 days and then transferred to Cambridge hospital where he was until the war ended. • Buteyn describes the victory celebrations and parades that the English people in Southampton threw the night the war ended. Fully expected to be sent to the Pacific but instead was interviewed by a colonel and asked if he wanted to become a part of a program aimed at forming a British-style West Point. Buteyn mentions that he ended up in command of 13 dance bands and all military cinemas in Britain. He mentions briefly his stay with a British family during Christmas, 1945. (1:15:04) From June, 1945 to March 1946 he was involved in this special program. • After this experience, Buteyn was stationed in Southampton where he was assigned to process British war grinds. (1:17:02) Going Home (1:17:03) • Upon arriving home in El Pan, WI he was discharged. From there Buteyn boarded a train and met up with his parents at a little junction called South Beaver Dam, WI. Spent 2 weeks at home. Then went back to Ripon College �for a semester. After a semester there he transferred to Hope College where he joined the ministry. Shares his thoughts about joining the ministry. After the war (1:30:01) • After this experience, Buteyn briefly describes his 55 years as a pastor and 8 yeas as a professor at San Francisco Seminary. Describes in some detail the events of the student uprising at Berkeley in 1968 where he was a professor. Buteyn mentions his involvement of quelling these uprisings. Describes in great detail how the city council of San Francisco handed authority over to the church to restore authority to the city. • They set up a rally where over 15,000 people from various groups like the Young Socialist Alliance and Communist groups came. Buteyn mentions that after 6 months there was no more rioting. Also shares his thoughts about the lessons he learned from the war. (1:46:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Buteyn, Donald (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Buteyn, Donald Description An account of the resource Donald Buteyn served in the US Army from 1942-1945. He served as an infantryman in the 303rd Regiment, and saw action along the Dutch/Belgian frontier early in 1945 and took part in the crossing of the Rhine at Remagen. He later participated in the closing of the Saar pocket and in the capture of Cologne and Dusseldorf. Before being wounded in April, he participated in the liberation of three concentration camps for political prisoners. His wartime experiences helped him to decide to go into the ministry after the war. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Veterans Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-01-08 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ButeynD Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/124384bc8fda0dccc8e8f13eb1ccab05.mp4 bdcf0ba9ef095719df19e4a57b2bca6b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1c655753075227a0a5bb567b781ebc85.pdf 1c1124b54e487bdaae2d49492063d4c1 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Interview World War II Maurice Buskers Length of Interview (00:25:47) Pre-enlistment (00:00:21) Born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, on April 15, 1925 Father worked in the furniture factories in Grand Rapids Had three sisters, two older and one younger Grew up during the Depression • Only one other person that lived on his block, a man who worked for the government To make ends meet, his Father did odd jobs and his Mother did house cleaning Graduated in 1943 from Ottawa Hills High School in Grand Rapids Remembers Pearl Harbor happening (1941) • Felt that he would become a part of the war, eventually Enlistment (00:2:13) Two weeks after graduating, 1943, Buskers enlisted In high school, he took tests which determined whether or not he could get into a V-12 Program (officer’s training) Ended up in Central Michigan College for two semesters of basic training If Buskers had graduated from the V-12 Program, he would have become an officer in the Navy Transferred into the Air Corp. instead If he hadn’t passed the test into the V-12 Program, Buskers would have enlisted because he did not want to be drafted into the Army Held an interest in boats so he joined the Navy • Would often go boating in the lakes around Grand Rapids when he was a kid �Training (00:04:25) Schooling from 8:00 AM – 4:00 PM • Wore Uniforms • Was paid by the Government because he was enlisted In order to switch into the Air Corp. and out of the V-12 Program, Buskers may have taken tests that would prove him physically able to Sent to Groselle Air Station to warm airplanes up for cadets already flying • Located south of Detroit, Michigan Buskers lived on the base A lot of physical and mental training • Navigation, engines, mechanics of an airplanes, “Rules of Flying” • Did not fly, only warmed up the planes for other cadets Stearman’s (the planes used): open cockpits, bi-planes, (reputation with being easy to fly) • One seat for the instructor and one for the cadet Instructors were people who had earned their license and were good pilots; no civilians as instructors Spent three months a Groselle Navy Training (00:08:13) Transferred back to the regular Navy because they didn’t need more pilots Sent to Great Lakes for four weeks of boot camp • Boot camp was more “severe” than his officer’s training • Many of the men in Buskers’s Company were previously part of the Navy, “washed out” pilots Was given tests for assignment into something suitable Did very little while waiting to be assigned, took four weeks • Went to Chicago every weekend to watch games at both baseball fields �Submarine Base (00:10:12) Assigned to a Submarine Base in Key West, Florida where he took training as a Soundman (Sonar) • Arrived there by a troupe train, took three days to go from Chicago to Miami Was a submarine operating base (00:11:25) • Foreign submarines would come in from France and Britain; for repair or refueling His job was to watch movements of other ships by tracing the echoes of the sonar “pings” sent out by the submarine (00:11:50) Went out on wooden ships, minesweepers; prevented mines from detonating due to lack of metal (00:12:25) • About 60ft long; strictly for training For training, submarines would be sent out, then training ships. A dirigible would follow from above to watch the ships (used to spot submarines) (00:13:06) • Some ships had “anti-submarine” equipment for training • Trained Buskers to be an operator on Sonar gear for a Destroyer or a Destroyer Escort Buskers once picked up a submarine echo that wasn’t supposed to be there and a 1st Class trained officer figured it was an enemy submarine; it got away after being chased up the East Coast (00:14:16) South of Key West, conveys would form and sometimes they would be destroyed by enemy ships (00:14:52) • Still some enemy (German) ships out in the Caribbean; 1944 and early 1955 (00:15:05) Off Duty (00:15:33) Would often swim in the ocean, attend theaters (Truman’s White House, name of theater during war) Was still at Key West when Roosevelt died and Truman was elected At home on leave when the war (WWII) ended (00:16:11) Air Corp. (00:16:32) In between Pre-flight training and flying, Buskers had been transferred back into the Air Corps. �Attended University of Iowa • Trained in Navigation, positions of stars and constellations, all the basics of flying • No flight simulators, just taking classes If the war had not ended, he would have continued to learn primary flying in Iowa Was able to get back into flight-training due to the increase of deaths of pilots during the war Early 1945, when he had begun flight-training End of Service (00:18:28) Had the choice of staying in the Air Corps, going back to the Navy, or discharging when the war ended • Wanted to continued flying and was signed in, but changed his mind into discharging 30 minutes before the deadline (12:00 PM); had three buddies that decided this (00:18:45) • Thought about home and didn’t want to stay an additional three years Regrets not staying in flight school but wanted to stick together with his buddies (00:20:13) Experience (00:20:45) Feels like everyone “grew up” after going into the service; young men now-a-days should go into the service to gain discipline Helped Buskers learn how to get along with all kinds of people and the many outlooks they have on life Side Stories (00:22:00) Knew a man, from Central Michigan College, who was listed as MIA (missing in action) because he had been on a ship that had sunk; hadn’t known he was MIA When he arrived home, the man’s mother fainted • Communication was not as it could have been, this happened periodically Buskers became a Soundman because a school band teacher gave him “Doppler Tests” that he always passed with “flying colors”; correlated with his later training as a Soundman because of his acute hearing (00:23:09) When World War II first started, Buskers’s History class would listen to the radio; he would also watch news reels in the theater (00:25:12) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Buskers, Maurice (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Buskers, Maurice Description An account of the resource Maurice Buskers enlisted into the Navy after graduating from Ottawa Hills High School in 1943. He was originally a part of the V-12 Program that would have made him an Officer of the Navy, but he decided to transfer into the Navy Air Corps instead. He was to become a pilot but was sent to Great Lakes for Navy training because there were too many pilots at the time. Buskers never saw battle because World War II had ended before he finished training. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-03-24 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BuskersM Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c682c9f4ab2913735ac28b6a24e00bf8.mp4 e6849dcc15487470e47f7275dac41fa3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/05bdd3ae76aa44af673b4d227700c167.pdf 60b34f689f7801b87d9f5808bb43fc05 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Paul Bush (37:31) Background Information (00:02) • • • • Born January 21st 1931. (00:02) Served in the early to mid 1950s. (00:02) He was drafted into the Army several months after he finished college (approx. 1953). (00:22) Paul’s brother served in World War II in the Navy. (1:00) Training (1:59) • • • • • • • Basic training lasted 8 weeks. It consisted of physical training, weapons training, and emphasis on discipline. (2:00) He had basic at Fort Knox, Kentucky. (2:34) Rather than going into advanced infantry training, Paul and his friend decided they would sign up to be cooks. (3:33) Paul and his friend were placed in a barracks by themselves for 3 weeks before being assigned to truck driver school. (4:10) The men were trained on how to drive trucks up mountains. Paul did not care for this part of his training. (5:21) There were many college graduates in Paul’s platoon. The platoon regularly had checks of barracks to see who had the cleanest barracks. If a barracks won, the men got passes. (6:05) Paul and his friend were eventually sent to Southern France. (8:07) Service in France (8:40) • • • • • • • • • • • • The Army didn’t know what to do with the unit. Most of their time was spent doing KP or guard duties. (9:14) Paul’s friend, having received a masters degree from the University of Michigan, received a job on base catered to his perceived knowledge. (10:48) Paul was made the assistant to the chaplain’s aid. (11:30) Paul served as the chaplain’s aid in Southern France for approx. 6 months. (12:17) The chaplain’s aid was immune from guard and KP duty. (12:45) After 6th months, Paul and the chaplain was sent to central France to a large base. There they had little to do as there was already a chaplain and a chaplain’s aid. They stayed there for 1 month. (13:57) The men then went to Germany. They stopped at an old German air force base. (15:03) The base was formerly used to launch rockets at England. (16:00) The basement of the base was used for storage. (17:59) Paul and the chaplain spent 2-3 months in Germany. (18:25) If a man was in the military on a two year stint they were able to get out early if they were returning to school. (19:36) Paul was given an early out in order to obtain his masters degree (approx. 1955). (20:14) �Travel Back Home (20:40) • • • Paul was flown from Germany to Ireland to Finland then to New Jersey. (20:40) The aircraft experienced engine problems while return home. The pilot didn’t repair it but rather ordered men aboard the aircraft to watch the engine to ensure it didn’t fail. (21:32) The plane landed in Chicago Illinois. Paul hitchhiked his way home to Michigan. (22:30) Teaching in Germany and in Italy (23:00) • • • • • • • • • • • Paul went overseas to teach school in Germany after completing his schooling in the U.S. (23:00) He applied at the University of Miami, Florida, for a chance to teach overseas. He could go to Japan, Italy, England, Germany, and Norway. (23:57) He was picked to be sent to Okinawa. His wife did not want to go there so he was reassigned to Germany. (25:20) Paul served as a teacher in a high school in Germany on a base. His wife did not have a job. (26:07) Paul spent 2 years in Germany teaching. (28:15) He was then sent to a small jr. high on a base in Italy. He was in charge of teaching several subjects. (29:17) Paul’s first son was born while he was in Italy. He taught there for 2 years. (30:13) He couched a foot ball team while teaching in Italy. (30:48) In the following spring, Paul was made a track coach as well. (33:36) After teaching in Italy Paul returned home and was discharged. (34:40) There was a PX on base where Paul did most of his shopping. (35:57) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bush, Paul (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bush, Paul Description An account of the resource Paul Bush, born January 21st 1931, was drafted into the U.S. Army shortly after completing college in 1953. Paul completed his basic at Fort Knox Kentucky. Upon its competition, Paul was then sent to Southern France. Here he was made a chaplain's aide, and served with the chaplain on several bases in France and Germany. Paul returned to the states to receive a teaching degree. When he finished he worked through a military program to return to Europe and teach in schools on military bases in Germany and Italy. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Delaney, Matthew (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-05-27 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BushP1394V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e6c12f970e25041410ecfda42fdebd2d.mp4 d6c059490dc34005369803674321570a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7927e45a8ca0069261f9e39acf454d7b.pdf 4af27a2b5fc267371ba2aec1eca5dc5f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Jimmie Carrol Bush Vietnam War Total Time: 17:45 Pre-Enlistment (00:24) • • Went to Thornapple-Kellogg High School in Middleville, Michigan. Was 18 years old when drafted in January 1967. Training (00:50) • • Went to Fort Knox, Kentucky, for Basic Training . Chose the Airborne because he wanted to jump out of an Airplane. Active Duty (03:10) • • • • • • • • • Was in the 82nd Airborne Division of the Army Was in multiple different locations across Vietnam during his service, including Da Nang and others. They would be put on a helicopter and be dropped off and then picked up in a month. Spent most of his time in the hills and jungle around Vietnam. He carried an M-60 machine gun (04:33) They were attached to the 101st Airborne for a while, and they took heavy casualties during this time period. Was able to communicate with his family via letters. His mother would send him care packages. On leave, they would get to go into the city and tour. (15:55) Had the opportunity to meet and eat with John Wayne. Post-Service (11:31) • Worked as a bricklayer after the war. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bush, Jimmie Carrol (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bush, Jimmie Carrol Description An account of the resource Jimmie Carol Bush was drafted into the Army in 1967, and served in the Vietnam War. He joined the 82nd Airborne Division, and was involved in heavy jungle fighting. His job in his platoon was to carry the M-60 machine gun. His unit spent most of its time being transported by helicopter. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fischer, Brady (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-01-16 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BushJ Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d9bb3b487e9b7eb5aebaff9484cb9f98.mp4 5000795b9fd10beee8f81ce1abec0146 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/348e5f49942be1a9c13bf2dd11f1c2d0.pdf 5e77c494e315b5cda368af3be07fd3f5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Ted Burzynski (55:57) Background Information (00:20) • • Ted was born in Michigan on April 18, 1916 He has been living in the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans since 2004 Las Vegas (1:30) • • • • Ted was approached by a man for a trip to Las Vegas in 1993; he had to pay $500 up front He spent $100.00 in quarters on slots, but did not win any money He then started playing on the Stars and Stripes machine and won a jack pot of $25,000 When he went to the bank they questioned him about the money and thought that it was a stolen check Joining of Senior Citizens, Young at Heart (7:15) • A friend had asked Ted to join this group • They traveled together on another trip to Las Vegas • Ted spent $1000 this time, but did not win any money Vacation (15:10) • Ted traveled to Israel and went to the area where Christ had carried a cross and met Peter • He had to travel to Chicago for his passport, which was signed by the Secretary of State • Ted went to Israel in February and then went to Rome in October • The whole trip cost him $2300 and he was also able to see the Pope • He had to stop in France on the way because there was a snow storm Pearl Harbor (26:55) • Ted was drafted after Pearl Harbor was attacked • He got married in 1940; they had a Polish wedding that lasted for 3 days • They lived with his wife’s parents for 6 months while he was looking for a job • They liked to watch silent movies in theaters; Charlie Chaplin was everyone’s favorite actor • They were in a theater when Pearl Harbor was attacked and the movie was stopped in the middle of the showing • Ted had been working in a factory as a union leader and figured that he would be drafted soon Draft Deferment (36:50) • Ted had a high position at the factory and every time that a draft notice was sent to him, the company somehow got his service deferred • He had two children when he was actually drafted in 1943 �Training (39:15) • Ted was sent to Camp Sheridan in Chicago, but had not other news of what was going on • He was on board a troop train and made many friends; they soon figured that they would be going to Europe and not the Pacific • Ted went to Camp Shanks in New York and then to Fort Dix and took a ferry across the Hudson River The Trip to Europe (44:40) • Ted boarded the Sea Devil and traveled to France • His wife was working in a candy factory in Detroit while he was gone • He had to go to a very crowded hospital because many bullets had hit the top of his helmet and had punctured his skin • Ted was in Germany on VE Day • He was very glad that he never got sent to the Pacific • Many men became POWs in Japan and had to work in coal mines • Ted was Corporal with General Patch’s 7th Army of the 3rd Infantry Division � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Burzynski, Thadius (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Burzynski, Thadius Description An account of the resource Thadius Burzynski was born in Michigan on April 18, 1916. Ted was married in 1940 and expected to be drafted after Pearl Harbor was attacked. Ted was deferred from service many times because of his work in a factory. Ted was drafted in 1943 and then traveled to France for his time in the service. He was in Germany on VE Day. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-18 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BurzynskiT Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/eaa4856ea7c32aacc8d27b8500d0eed0.mp4 920015fcb30faa508b43f6c0d6590840 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/87e00da6f0a4bc43f5548cceb740eac5.pdf f56c9b4555f99a57fc045a7f6e43829f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Robert Daryll Burton (00:21:22) Childhood (Grand Rapids, MI) - Born Jan 21, 1959 - Burton JHS 9th Grade - Central HS Grad '76 - Cub Scout, Boy Scout, YMCA, Rocket Football, Camp - ROTC in HS - Played HS Basketball, Football, Baseball - Entered Military in August 76 BCT Ft Knox KY, MOS-MP (9:06) - Sister Y Brother O - Father -Nurse Mother - GM - Ft McCollum Alabama MP Training - Ft Bliss TX, Guard duty - White Sands Missile Range, NM - Visited Trinity Site, Roswell - Highest Rank E-4 (15:30) - Ft Benning, GA Patrol (18:02) - ETS 1979 - (Kelvinator) Worked for appliance Co until 1984 - C & O RR - State of Michigan DMT motor pool 1985-90 - State Forestry Dept. Park Maintenance (21:22) - Never Married, Plenty of GF - Diabetic - Lives in Veterans Home (7mos) - Thankful for Veterans Service - Plans to reenter civilian life   � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Burton, Robert Darrell (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Burton, Robert Darrell Description An account of the resource Robert Darrell Burton is a Grand Rapids native and a resident at the Coit Street VA Facility. Burton spent the majority of his army service (1976-79) as a military policeman at a base in New Mexico. Burton did not see any combat during his term of service. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Veterans United States. Army Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-05-15 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BurtonR Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b55a06a79c48764895194966f6c51d25.mp4 5f8358ccd98fca9026bae209605819d8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/985fcc774fa359475507d10b15a66d50.pdf 52ca806670e6a7ea5d1b3e0587ae46a7 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Michael Burton (01:02:14) (00:14) Pre-enlistment: • He was born in Detroit and grew up in Trenton, MI • Went to Grand Valley State College for in 1965 for one year • His Father worked for Ford Motor and his mother stayed home to raise children • Father paid for one year of college, and he thought GI bill would be a good way o pay for the remaining 3 years • Chose Marines because they were offering a 2 year enlistment, and the Army had a ready reserve obligations (03:49) Enlistment/Training: • Went to San Diego, CA for basic training • Was met at the airport by a sergeant who embodies what their training would be like • For 8 weeks they experienced extreme physical training, rifle training, sleep deprivation, and a lot of screaming. • Went through 2 more sessions of training after boot camp, where they went through more weapons training • First deployment was in Hawaii with the 127th Regiment for 8 months • Spent time conducting mock war exercises on islands and on boats • Sometimes they would hike with their equipment for days around an island • Had the weekends for downtime • He was on the tennis team with 5 other guys, but was kicked off the team when a captain decided he wanted to join • Could have missed the whole war if he had remained on the team • The 127th was disbanded and they were assigned to go to Vietnam as replacement troops • Went to California to get additional training like learning to use the new M16, endurance training, and more sleep deprivation training • Training proved to be useful because it helped them to adapt to their duties in Vietnam (10:40) Deployment to Vietnam: • First was sent to Okinawa for a short layover, but avoided being sent to Vietnam for a week by skipping morning formation • Went to Vietnam on a commercial airliner (PANAM) • Spent time in Dong Ha and Kontum • Found a way to be in the 3rd Marine Division, Golf Company, 2nd battalion, 9th Marine regiment. Did so to be with friend from Grand Valley • 9th Marine unit was known as the “Walking Dead” because they were almost wiped out in the DMZ • They were stationed about 500 yards south of the DMZ • Did not see the Vietcong, but did see the North Vietnamese regular army troops �• His friend thought he was crazy for coming to his unit • He was kept from walking point by the fact that his friend had arranged for someone one who owed him to take his place • Terrain reminded him of the upper peninsula of Michigan: hilly, many trees, lush, but had valleys and meadows • Never saw any of the local population • Normally walked all day and stayed in different spots every night • He knew that they were meant to engage the enemy when they found them or when they were fired upon, but other than that he knew nothing about their missions (19:15) Living Conditions/Food: • Very hot during the day especially when caring your equipment • They would carry rifles, packs, helmets, flak jackets, several ammunition magazines, 8 grenades, and sometimes rocket or mortar rounds • Total kit weighed around 35 lbs • They carried water and found water that they could use purification tablets to make potable • They carries and had delivered canned sea rations; some where better than others, and some were older than he was • Got three meals a day and received 4 cigarettes with every meal • He was able to trade those cigarettes for better meals and other goods. • Used heat tabs to heat their opened canned foods • People would carry pictures of girlfriends, Tabasco sauce, and supplemental weapons • The weapons would be anything from a shot gun, snub-nosed 38, or even one Native American soldier carried a tomahawk • M16 were normally used when things got harry (25:16) Combat: • In the field for two to three weeks before getting injured • A typical day on patrol was filled with boredom with moments of panic and chaos • Never saw Vietnamese enemy up close, only from a distance • Engagement with the enemy usually took the form of shooting at one another from a distance • His unit was able to call in air support, and both sides used mortars to bombard the other • The US used 81mm mortar shells, but the Vietnamese used 82mm which meant that the Vietnamese could use the US ammo, but the US could not us the 82mm • His friend Rob was wounded the day before he was during a mortar battle • Their group went from 54 to 15 after the casualties were taken away • Rob had shrapnel fragments all along the front side of his body • Rob survived his wounds and was sent to the Great Lakes Naval Hospital • He was wounded by mortar shrapnel the next day at midnight (29:48) Injuries: • His left leg, buttocks, and back were injured. He also had two broken ribs, a broken leg, and a chest wound that collapsed his right lung �• He ran to his hole after being wounded, but someone was already using it • His hair had caught fire after the mortar round hit (30:54) Military Discipline/Experience: • No shoe shine or other petty duties were maintained, and only performance in the field really mattered to NCOs and officers • In order to get their men’s loyalty during combat the NCOs and officers knew they had to treat them with less discipline than was normal outside of the front lines • In the field there was more camaraderie between the officers and their men than anywhere else he had seen • Officers normally had more experience than himself, but then again he was not their long • The Normal tour of duty in Vietnam was 13 months (33:01) Injuries continued: • Corpsman (medic) assessed his wounds and described them as a million dollar wound that would get him out of the war • The corpsman treated his wounds and flipped him over to prevent blood from flooding his good lung • He was loaded onto a helicopter, and was transported to a battalion aid station (MASH) • He was then sent to a hospital ship where he spent a few weeks before being sent back to the US on a hospital plane • He spent his time recovering at the Great Lakes Naval Hospital in Illinois, just north of Chicago. • He was at Great Lakes for several months until his enlistment was up • He could not get reassured that he would not lose his left leg, but he thought it was a small price to pay not to go back to Vietnam • All his wounds healed properly, but he did have to use a colostomy bag for a while • He felt that he had good medical care at every step • He was in a room that fit 80 men, and would watch Jeopardy on the one TV in the room • He was reunited with Ron and another friend, both were from Grand Valley • Spent a couple of weeks in casual company before he was released from the hospital, but when he was fully recovered his enlistment was up (38:27) Life After Service: • Stayed busy during the summer, and went back to Grand Valley in the fall • GI Bill helped him get his bachelor degree in Sociology with an English minor • Worked for the State of Michigan as a caseworker for the Welfare Department (39:19) Lessons Learned: • He learned to be less fearful than those who did not experience the war • Counselors at the VA normally tried to help them unlearn some of the things they learned during their service in Vietnam • They learned to get angry quick which was good for combat, but terrible for the work place �• He learned to not form close attachments to others, and to set limits on how far to trust others • In Vietnam everyone was doing their own time, and so it was hard to create close relationships with other soldiers (43:25) Views on the War: • He was outspoken about his opposition to the war in Vietnam • He had a letter published in Time Magazine that supported Carter’s decision to give amnesty to those who dodged the draft by going to Canada • The Kenneth Burns documentary inspired him to talk about his experience • He believes in necessary wars like WWII, but opposes optional wars like Vietnam and the second Iraq War • Why they went to Vietnam was questionable, as was the reasons for going into Iraq • He did experience moments of being treated like a killer by others because he served in Vietnam • He would have liked to challenge those views, but he did not get the chance • He was not trusted by others on the Grand Valley campus for a while after they left the military • Some in the Veterans club felt they should work to get the hippies off the campus • He thinks that the draft would make the population increase their opposition to the war in Iraq • He does not like the idea of a draft, but he also does not like the way things are going now • He would tell those going to war that their actions will stay with them for the rest of their lives, and that they need to act as individuals and not succumb to mob mentality • He also thinks that anyone coming back from war should seek some kind of counseling � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Burton, Michael (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Burton, Michael Description An account of the resource Michael Burton was born in Detroit and enlisted in 1966 after finishing one year at Grand Valley State College. He spent 8 months in Hawaii as part of the 127th Marine Infantry Regiment, and for a short while was part of their bases tennis team. He was then sent to Vietnam via Okinawa. He spent time in Dong Ha and Kontum, but eventually found his way to his new location near the DMZ as part of the 3rd Marine Division, Golf Company, 2nd Battalion, 9th Marine regiment. He was able to find a friend from college that was with the same unit, and spent his entire time in the field with him. He never saw the enemy, and the engagements he was involved in were from a distance. He talked about the C-rations they got during their time in Vietnam, and how the cigarettes they received were good for bartering. He also talked about the supplemental weapons the soldiers would carry, and what kind of equipment they would bring with them while on duty. He was in the field for two to three weeks before he was wounded by a mortar round. He had several injuries, as did his friend, and he was sent back to the US. Along the way he was treated at a battalion aid station, a hospital boat, and eventually at the Great Lakes Naval Hospital. He spent the rest of his service at the Hospital, and was reunited with his friends from college. He had been a vocal opponent of the war once he was discharged, and has some opinions about the war in Iraq. He also talks about how soldiers who experience war need to seek professional help when they return to civilian life, and that mob mentality needs to be avoided by all soldiers. Personal narrative appended to interview outline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Marine Corps Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-10-16 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BurtonM Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f7e708a2e3f662e12bf71e211d4e7458.mp4 fd573348048fb960824eb9b58a09d94a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b25f158643fe937df1cf21cf7572b8cd.pdf b9e7722afb81510153ead61da28e679e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Carolyn Burkholder for Joe Burkholder World War II Total Time: 34:00 Childhood (00:12) • • • • • • • Born in Miami, Oklahoma in 1932. Father owned a grocery store. Was taught by her father to shoot. Her father owned a lake property and they spent much of their time there. Was young enough to not remember the events in the world during the 1930s leading up to World War II. Graduated High School in 1950. Joe was the name of her husband, who was a participant in World War II. He was born in 1924. Husband’s Service (20:45) • • The first time Joe talked to her about the service was after he choked her in her sleep. He was a medic in the Battle of the Bulge, and was on Omaha Beach. Post-Service (22:30) • During the 1950s, they would do different things for fun, such as going to Joplin, Missouri, to have a drink, as Oklahoma was a dry state. • Moved to Midland, MI to find a job at Dow Corning. • Joe, her husband, developed Parkinson’s Disease. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Burkholder, Carolyn (Interview outline and video), 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Burkholder, Carolyn Description An account of the resource Carolyn Burkholder was born in Miami, Oklahoma in 1932. Her husband served in World War II, specifically in the Battle of the Bulge, and landing on Omaha Beach. Her father was a grocer, and she moved to Michigan after the war to get a job at Dow Corning. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-05-30 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BurkholderC Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4abb390c255635845dc8ded63b876a48.mp4 af4b5eadf6560ca12815584c5e476277 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7bd922f47c2c41b1e2f59f95811f1535.pdf 83b6fe1d39e0557428512a6c975d4c68 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans‟ History Project Interviewee‟s Name: Frederick Burgess Name of War: World War II Length of Interview: (01:33:57) (02:49) “Let‟s start with your name and where and when were you born.” (02:52) “Oh, my name is Fred Burguess, or Fredrick. We all ended up with a nickname. I was born in 1926. I still live in the same house where I was born.” (03:09) “And where is that house?” (03:11) “Out on 100 Street just a half mile east of the 131 expressway.‟ (03:17) “In Grand Rapids, Michigan.” (03:19) “No. Kent County.” (03:21) “Kent County. Okay.” (03:22) “I‟m just one mile north of the Kent County line. It‟s a buyer and sender address.” (03:25) “Ah. Okay. I was going to talk about your schooling but I think that your early family life. You lived on a farm. And tell us about Tell us about the number of your family and what was your family doing?” (03:40) “Well, there were thirteen of us, five girls and eight boys. And of course we were on the farm and everyone had their tasks. As the older ones got old enough to work out they‟d pick up, even in their teens, in their early teens, they‟d pick up a job here and there, but our main source of living came from the farm.” (04:11) “And what did you…” (04:14) “We had dairy cattle and there was about six acres of muck and we raised produce and my dad brought that into Grand Rapids to the wholesale market.” (04:29) “And what kind of foods were you growing?” �(04:31) “Well, we, on the highland we‟d raise hay, and corn, oats and wheat. Wheat was our cash crop on the highland but the rest was to feed our livestock.” (04:43) “I see.” (04:45) “And then on the muck why, we‟d raise some onions, celery, sweet corn, and tomatoes and maybe some cabbage or whatever.” (05:01) “Even during the depression and of course this was a difficult time for, you know, American families. (05:07) Did your family eat? I mean did you have problems with eating or was it so poor that you went without?” (05:15) “Oh, no. We never went without. The fact is my mother; she could make a good meal out of most anything. We actually, she used to make dandelion greens. We lived off the land. A lot of our meat came from wild game. And we always butchered a couple of hogs, but, nope, we never went hungry. We could have all we wanted but we‟d better eat, finish everything on our plate.” (05:52) “Which was good training for the fact that you actually got into the navy, because they had those same kinds of requirements. You didn‟t have as much of a problem as others, perhaps. What was your early schooling like?” (06:03) “Oh, I was in the one room school, out in the country school. Eight grades. And we had to, of course, walk back and forth to school, three-quarters of a mile but we enjoyed our schooling because not only were we a good sized family, but a neighborhood was united. You know when you grew up with another kid; he was just about like a brother or your sister. And so, and then when we got through the eighth grade, I went into Kellogg into high school, which was seven and a half miles from where we lived.” (06:51) “How did you get to school?” (06:53) “They had a bus. Yeah. They would. It was when the busses were out. ” (06:57) “Now. When you first entered high school, there was a monumental event that happened, Pearl Harbor. Where were you and what was your reaction to Pearl Harbor?” �(07:13) “Well, it was, I was home. It was on a Sunday and I remember I was just a kid yet and we were playing out in the yard but probably our usual ballgame or so. And I heard about Pearl Harbor and aw, shoot, that little country, they can‟t bother us, ya know, although we did have men over in Europe already. But I was fourteen and the draft age was twenty-one at that time and I thought it will never affect me.” (07:47) “I know this is difficult to go that far back, especially when you‟re fourteen. I remember when I was fourteen, I wasn‟t thinking about world event and things like that but your family was affected because you had older brothers. Was there any discussion in the family that you can recall? About, well now what? What‟s going to happen to the brothers now? Are they going to get drafted?” (08:09) “Yeah, to a certain extent. But we weren‟t a family that worried about things. We were a, I‟ll put it this way. We had a strong belief and we believed that the Lord‟s will will be done.” (08:32) “Okay. Do you remember when your older brother was drafted?” (08:40) Oh, yes. Yes.” (08:43) Well what happened?”” (08:46) “We just a. Yeah, it‟s a sad time.” (08:52) “But I had three of them that were drafted and I had a couple others that were 4-F. One had had spinal meningitis and so his reflexes were just a little bit slow. So they, they…you wouldn‟t know it, but he was 4-F.” (09:03) “A lot of people don‟t realize that that was a tough thing to hear. It was, you wanted to go and if you found out you couldn‟t, 4-F was a very embarrassing thing.” (09:13) “It was for some people, yes.” (09:18) “Three older brothers, in many ways the backbone to this farm are now gone. What effect did that have on your father and your farm?” �(09:28) “Well, they were already out of the farm, two of them had businesses of their own. Two of them were married and one of them had a child. And then one had a store and one had a station. And then they drafted both of those and so another brother that just got out of high school took over the store to run it for the one that was drafted then he got drafted, too.” (10:03) “Now, you are getting through your high school years, you got three brothers overseas, what were you thinking in terms of, I mean, you said initially that you thought the war was going to be over with, that it wasn‟t going to affect you, but as you got closer and closer to your age of potential draft, uh, what were you experiencing, what were you feeling? Were you going to join up? Were you going to be drafted?” (10:26) Well, I had a brother a year and a half older than I was, he stayed home on the farm and I had the privilege of going on to school. He always said when I got out of school that he was going to go in. I talked it over with my dad and you know that wouldn‟t be fair. So, ah, at the end of my junior or towards the end of my junior year, and uh, what, I loved high school sports but I gotta walk seven and a half miles every night after practice because of gas rationing we have no way of getting around. We couldn‟t take buses, even to our games. So I got to thinking it over, three brothers in. Where do I belong? Then I decided to join the naval. Well, one brother came home on furlough, the one that had the store and he said, “Don‟t never get in the Army.” Ah, if I‟m not going to get in the Army, I might just as well join the Navy. So that really is when I decided to join the Navy. When I decided to join the Navy, of course, Kip liked that, you know. He could conquer the world. Maybe I could help get this war over.” (12:19) “Ha!! That‟s great. So, how old were you when you actually joined?” (12:27) “Well when I signed up, I was seventeen.” (12:32) “Okay. But they would let you finish high school?” (12:36) “No.” (12:37) “Oh.” (12:45) “I wasn‟t inducted until I got out of that grade of school. In the spring, after school was out before they took me in. See, I volunteered, but then it takes a while before your number comes up.” �(12:48) I see. (12:50) “And, I, so I was actually through my junior year I went in.” (12:55) “And what did you actually join? You didn‟t join the regular Navy you joined…” (12:59) “I joined the Naval Reserve.” (13:02) Reserve. And why did you do that as opposed to just the Navy?” (13:05) Well, I didn‟t want to be a career military man so I and if you joined the Navy, I could join the Naval Reserve. The Naval Reserve you could join for the duration and six months. Where if you joined the regular navy, then you joined for a period of time and I believe it was three years at that time. (13:31) “„Okay.” (13:37) “Now it‟s back up to four years.” (13:42) “Well, let me ask you this. If the war had not happened, what were you planning to do?” (13:45) “I wanted to be a farmer. I guess I wanted to follow in Dad‟s footsteps, (13:50) “Okay.” (13:54) “And I loved farming.” (13:56) “So even as you joined the Navy Reserves, the idea was to serve your country, come back and become a farmer.” (14:02) “Yes. (14:05) Okay. (14:09) See, the way I looked at it, I was losing my teenage years. That, to me, you know, that‟s the time you start driving, start dating, and with the gas rationing, and of course I loved sports. We just….things didn‟t go. Everything was upset. The war had everything in turmoil. Say turmoil. The country came together but as individuals there was no future until that war was done.” �(14:56) “That‟s, that‟s very true. Very profound. It‟s interesting that after all these years, you still look back and realize that you missed out on some real basic teenage….driving a car, finding a sweetheart, having a milkshake…” “Well, I had those.” (15:01) “Oh, you did?” (15:10) “Oh, yeah. But not as many as I wanted to. I was limited. Let‟s put it that way. Because when that, we only had one car there and when those ration stamps were gone we had to stay home. But, no, we had, we made our own fun, the biggest share of it. In a group, youth hall, when we went away, we didn‟t go one in each car. We filled the car up.” (15:31) “With everybody you could pack in there.” (15:35) “When you finally did join up, had you ever traveled outside the immediate area? Had you been to Chicago or anything like that?”” (15:45) “I‟d been to Detroit once. Some friends had invited me to go along and see a Detroit Tiger baseball game. No, otherwise, no. I‟d never been out.” (15:55) “So even though you had traveled out of your home family immediate area, it was with friends, so you felt protected and you went there and came back. But now, you are about to embark on a journey with places with names you can‟t even spell.” (16:13) “That‟s right. I‟d never heard of them before.” (16:18) “So let‟s, let‟s actually walk us through the process. You leave home. Where did you go? The very first place you went to start getting in to the Navy Reserve.” (16:28) “Well, I went to Detroit and we had our physical there. And I went from Detroit to Great Lakes….” (16:34) “Okay.” (16:38) “….Naval Station on the other side of Lake Michigan.” (16:40) “Were you still in civilian clothes?” (16:42) “Well, that‟s when I…” �(16:50) “When did they issue you the uniforms at Great Lakes?” (16:53) “When I got to Great Lakes.” (16:58) “Okay. All right. So basically then, Detroit, their just the physical and there‟s just a bunch of guys standing in a line and they‟re just.” (17:00)“You‟re not in until you pass that physical, see.” (17:04) ”Right. So from Detroit to Great Lakes, how did you get there?” (17:07) “By train.” (17:11) ”And you are with the same guys you saw in Detroit or they all strangers or?” (17:16) “No. Some of them were. Yeah. Some of them are…These are the guys that, the fact is that some of them, a couple of them took the train from here to Grand Rapids or to Detroit.” (17:20) So you knew these guys? (17:22)”No I didn‟t know them personally… until I met them… at the train station?” (17:28) “Okay. All right. So you‟re all in civvies, you are about to go off on this great adventure. I want to picture this now. Okay. You get off the train. Who was there to greet you? Was there a drill sergeant or?” (17:43) “I don‟t know! I don‟t what he was! Follow me!” (17:49) “So you guys are gathered together and you go to, this is a camp?” (17:56) “Yeah. This is your boot camp they call it in the Navy. That‟s your basic training.” (18:04) “Now, let me try and visualize this. What am I seeing? Is it a small place? Is it a huge place?” �(18:13) “It‟s a huge place. Great Lakes is one of the older naval training stations.” (18:14) “So you got parade grounds.” (18:14) “Oh yes.” (18:14) “Barracks. “ (18:15) “Yeah.” (18:15) “These are wooden structures? (18:16) “These are all wooden structures.” (18:18) Okay. Not tent city or anything? (18:26) “Fact is Great Lakes actually did have a couple of ships on Lake Michigan, too. I never had the privilege of getting on one.” (18:27) “All right. So now they‟re marching you, after a fashion I imagine because you guys don‟t actually know how to march yet. Where did you go first? Did they take you to barracks?” (18:37) “Barracks, yeah. We had a regular routine out of our barracks. We stayed in the same place; I think it was about six weeks that we had basic training.” (18:51) “Well, I want to walk you through this. You get to the barracks, you‟re basically unloading your stuff. You‟re assigned a bunk, or you just pick a bunk.” (19:01) “You‟re assigned.” (19:02) “You‟re assigned. Okay. Are these two high? One. Two. Or are they three?” (19:08) “I believe they was two high.” (19:10) “Okay.” (19:12) “You there‟s a funny thing about it. As I went through my naval career, what I‟ve gone through, I‟ve left behind.” �(19:33) “Yeah. Well, I‟m going to try and dredge it up. That‟s what I‟m supposed to be here for.” (19:37) “Yeah. There‟s a lot of things, well, if they weren‟t comfortable why, when I was through with them, well, forget „em.” (19:42) “Yeah. Well, let‟s walk through from the civvies to the uniform. In my mind, you picture it from movies and whatnot that you‟re kind of in a line and, you know, there‟s shirts and you have pants and your shoes are all allocated to you. So, I take it that they had a New York tailor there, he was measuring your….Well, what really happened?” (20:00) “Well, what you did was you had to take care of your own uniform, of course and you had to do your own washing and it was all done by hand. Then when you got them dried, you put them under your bunk to press them.” (20:17) “Okay. Yeah. Okay.” (20:20) “And, everyone, we had one guy, we called him Bonnie Baker. We had to wear white uniforms because it was summertime. When I was at Great Lakes, we had to wear white uniforms and when you stood inspection, they had to be clean, ***see and Bonnie Baker, he‟d always take Bon Ami and rub those dirty spots. So, we called him Bonnie Baker, but he got past inspection just like the rest of us.” (20:53) “What was the daily routine like in the very early days? What time did you get up and what did you have to do?” (21:05) “We got up at daybreak and then we went out and we had a short time of exercise and then we would go for breakfast and of course you got a big military base there and you only got one mess hall and so we had to eat on our schedule.” (21:35) “Are you talking about long lines?” (21:38) “Yes.” (21:42) ”So you had to wait in long lines to go through a buffet?” (21:46) “But they didn‟t send the whole outfit to one time.” (21:48) “Right. It was all scheduled. Right. Sure.” �(21:54) “Then you took what they gave you. You didn‟t say, „I don‟t like oatmeal today. I‟d rather have cream of wheat.‟” (22:02) “So you go through the chow line, you eat, then what? Remember, I‟m talking about the first couple of weeks.” (22:08) “Then we‟d usually go into exercises again. And conditioning was a big thing, one of the biggest things. They used to have competition. We even had boxing and stuff, just to put one guy against the other and learn how to compete.” At that time I thought it was foolish, but later you realize that competing was a big part of it.” (22:44) “Marching?” (22:48) “We did an awful lot of studying of airplanes.” (22:51) “Really?” (22:53) “Airplanes. Ships.” (22:56) “What kind of airplanes? Japanese?” (23:04) “You had to be able to identify them, see. This was a big thing and even after we got out to sea, you had to be able to identify your airplanes and ships and we had to signal.” (23:14) “Communications?” (23:18) “For communications you had to be able to signal with flags and we did a lot of that.” (23:23) “Let me ask you this. You came from a farm background and that‟s not easy. Physically, that‟s not easy. You‟re bailing hay; you‟re doing all kinds of things. So how did you match up in terms of basic training? Was it difficult because they put you through, they put you to the limits, I know that. But in terms of your background as a farm boy, did you adapt better because you‟d worked?” (23:44) “Oh, yeah. To me, I was in good shape because I played basketball for a couple of hours and then I still had to walk home seven and a half miles and then I still had chores to do. So, no, probably physically, these guys who came from the city, they hadn‟t had the exercise.” �(24:13) “A lot more difficult.” (24:18) “I realize that it‟s a long time ago, but was there a sense of camaraderie or was there a lot of…because you see it in the movies all the time. The farm boy is picked on because he‟s a farm boy and the New York guy is supposed to be sophisticated. Was any of that going on in the barracks and whatnot in terms of the fact that you‟re all from different parts of the country?” (24:36) “There was a little of it. This is one thing that‟s amazing, these guys come from New York in their zoot suits, but you know we became just like each other. You grew together. Every time you got moved around while you was in the military, why there was another buddy in the same position you was in. You never had a lack for somebody that you could communicate with.” (25:10) “So basic training consisted of a lot of calisthenics exercises, studying, getting to know aircraft as well as naval ships. Was there a graduation ceremony?” (25:26) “Yes.” (26:30) “You all wore your dress uniforms, it‟s formal. You are now part of the U.S. Navy Reserves.” (25:37) “Well, you was part of that, but I mean you‟ve always been part of that. You went through boot camp. You graduated boot camp, so then you got one stripe on your wrist.” (25:49) “Where do you go from there?” (25:59) “Well, I had a short leave, came home and then I went to California; Camp Shoemaker, which was a debarkation center out in California.” (26:08) “Now, if you went to the east coast, you would be going to Europe. You go to the west coast; you know where you‟re going. Did you figure that out by the time you got to California?” (26:15) Yeah. That wasn‟t hard to figure out.” (26:20) “What year is this, by the way?” (26:23) “It‟s still ‟44.” �(26:28) “Had you been keeping track of what was going on overseas, either through newspapers or radio?” (26:32) “To a certain extent, we‟d hear about a battle or something like that, but we didn‟t, even in our barracks in boot camp, you couldn‟t have a radio. The only news we‟d get would be if they wanted us to have it.” (27:06) “So now you end up in California. What was the purpose of being there? This is a staging area?” (27:13) “Yeah, this is where they send people to, and then you were reassigned. It wasn‟t on the coast. It was out in the desert area. Then they would reassign you to wherever they needed somebody. (27:31) “Had the decision been made as to what your particular job was going to be? When did you find out you were going to be a coxswainer? What were you actually trained to do?” (27:42) “I wasn‟t trained to do anything special then, just be part of the Navy. There‟s where you got reassigned. We were sent down to Coronado….” (28:00)“It‟s a beautiful place.” (28:03)“…Amphibious Training Base.” (28:07) “So now it‟s starting to dawn on you that you might be operating one of these landing crafts. So, how do you take to that?” (28:13) “Oh, I‟ll tell ya. After I got started, we were confused. When you went down there, you didn‟t know what your job was going to be. So they tried us all and give us each tests to drive landing crafts and then they figured out who could handle something and who couldn‟t. Then I got assigned to practice driving the landing craft.” (28:50)“Well, I find it interesting that you are a farm boy from Michigan with no real experience in all this but yet somehow you took to handling this huge landing craft. You just took to it, huh?” (29:05) “Well, golly, before the only way I got across the water was the oars. One stroke at a time.” (29:16) “So now I‟m behind the wheel of this twenty-six foot landing craft, with a diesel motor in there, to be honest with you, I enjoyed driving it. I really did. �I mean when they gave me a chance, I was determined that I was going to do the best I could.” (29:38) “What was the training like for that? I know Coronado myself, because I‟ve been there. I lived in San Diego, but were you operating from a ship and your job was to get the landing craft to the shore? I‟m talking about now, okay? Just the initial training. What was the process? What was it like?” (29:58) “Well, they had a bunch of landing crafts, of course and then we would have classes for a while, part of the day. Then we‟d go out on the beach, take these landing crafts out, and actually drive them. There‟d be a whole boatload of guys; they each were driving their own.” (30:25)“Now, were you training with troops, or empty?” (30:27)“No.” (30:29) “So these were empty.” (30:35) “Well, it was just with the guys who were taking training.” (30:40) “So they were pretending, if you will, to be the troops. So you‟re driving them around and you‟re going to get into another one and somebody else is going to drive you around.” (30:45) “No. It would be the same one. They‟d fit a bunch of us in this landing craft with one instructor and then we‟d have practice runs into the beach. He would tell us what we did wrong and then somebody else would try it.” (31:03) “Did anybody get sick?” (31:06) “Oh, yes.” (31:09) “Did you?” (31:13) “Only once all the time I was in the Navy.” (31:15) “Wow.” (31:20) We had a bunch of these landing crafts. We tied them up together to stop to have some K rations or C rations, one or the other…” (31:26) “..Canned food...” �(31:32) “Dog biscuits. Anyway, we tied a bunch of them up together and we was sitting down, taking a break and smoking. You couldn‟t smoke, either unless you all took a break.” (31:42) “At the same time.” (31:43) “At the same time” (31:45) “Smoke „em if ya got „em.” (31:52) “Then you didn‟t have to if you didn‟t want to either, but we tied together and they‟s just rough enough water that they was bumping together and I started feeling kind of sick. Then I stood up and looked out and I was okay. But I‟ve seen people that step off the dock onto a boat or onto a ship and he‟s seasick. Put him back on the dock and he‟s over it.” (32:11) “Amazing.” (32:14) “That‟s something that didn‟t bother me, but I did enjoy driving these landing craft because it was a new experience.” (32:24) “Here‟s one of those stupid questions that I told you in advance that I was going to be asking you, okay? Did you have any inkling about the danger that you were about to get into, because the idea of learning how to drive a landing craft means that you‟re taking troops into battle and they are going to hit that beach and try to attack. I mean, at this time in your training did you have any inkling?” (32:50) “Oh, we knew what we were training for.” (32:54) “Okay.” (32:56) “We knew why we were there, but we just tried to make the best of what we had. We weren‟t scared. I guess when you‟re at that age and you got a bunch of other guys around ya, you kind of comfort one another. Just to show how it goes. I had three guys in my landing craft and one was a deck hand and one was an engineer and they handled the ropes and everything and I‟d do the driving. I always said, „Jock, you know, there ain‟t no use in you and I worrying. Stan will worry enough for all three of us.‟” (33:47) “I had one guy who worried.” (33:50) “He was a worrier.” �(33:53) “Yeah. So we let him do it.” (33:55) “Let him do the worrying!” (34:02) “Once the training was over, was there any ceremony saying okay, you‟re now a landing craft operator?” (34:05) “No, we knew that before. We were all…there were three men in each landing craft and then we were divided up, told who‟s going to be in which landing craft.” (34:09) “Okay.” (34:19) ”As far as ceremony, no. We were shipped up, we didn‟t even know if we was going on the same ships. “ (34:29) “So where did you go next from Coronado?” (34:33) “We went to Astoria, Oregon. When we went to get onboard our ships.” (34:41) “And what ship was that?” (34:46) “The A.P.A. 226. U.S.S. Rollins.” (34:49) “The mighty R.” (34:54) “Named after a county in Kansas. Now we went up there, a brand new ship, and we went on a shakedown cruise, that‟s what they called it.” (35:00) “What‟s that?” (35:03) “That‟s a trial cruise to make sure it‟s seaworthy. Then we started picking up supplies.” (35:12) “So this is an empty ship except for the guys who are going to handle the landing crafts?” (35:19) “No, the rest of the crew was there, too. Now why they put us on there…?” (35:22) “Actually, the ship‟s crew. See, I wasn‟t part of the ship‟s crew. I was on that ship, but not actually part of the operating of that ship.” �(35:30) “Right.” (35:38) “Our job was landing.” (35:40) “Passengers. You were passengers.” (35:41) “No. We were landing craft.” (35:42) “Okay.” (35:42) “We maintained those landing crafts. And guns. And things like that. And we did have our duties of standing lookout and things like that.” (35:57) “So how long did the trip take?” (35:59) “You mean from Kelt Point?” (36:00) “Yes.” (36:00) “I don‟t know. One day, I guess. I was too busy to look and that‟s scenic. I never went up the post to look. Fact is, the first time I ever saw an orange tree.” (36:12) “Really? Was in California? I‟ll be darned.” (36:15) “Yeah.” (36:16) “So, you‟re traveling on this ship, you say you went and picked up supplies.” (36:22) “Yeah. Well, whatever we needed, you know. Even the electricians had to have extra supplies. Our boat crew, we had to have extra screws, parts for motors. And we didn‟t even have our landing craft onboard yet.” (36:46) “Oh, I was just going to ask that. Okay. So the landing craft is not on yet.” (37:52) “We went on down to San Francisco or San Diego. No, yeah. We stopped in San Francisco first and picked up some stuff, then we went down to San Diego and picked up some more down at a naval base down there and then we came back up to L.A. and that‟s where we picked up our landing craft.” (37:15) “How many were on the ship?” �(37:17) “Approximately three hundred.” (37:21) “Three hundred landing crafts?” (37:25) “No. Landing crafts, there were twenty-six landing crafts.” (27:29) “Twenty-six landing crafts. What was the three hundred figure?” (37:31) “Oh, better that three hundred crew.” (37:32) “Crew? Okay. Like, so now, do you know where you‟re going?” (37:38) “No. Wouldn‟t recognize it if I did.” (37:41) “Well, those are all new names out there.” (37:45) “So, you start off now from Los Angeles.” (37:50) “San Francisco. We picked up our landing craft in Los Angeles, and then we went back to San Francisco.” (37:58) “Okay. So you‟re leaving and there‟s the San Francisco Bridge.” (38:04) “Yeah.” (38:08) “That‟s the last view of America for quite a while.” (38:12) “I always say I went under that Golden Gate Bridge I think fourteen times and I never went over yet.” (38:15) “Wow.” (38:20)“Was there a sense of….I guess, what were you feeling like when you were leaving? I‟ve talked to vets who left from New York. Of course it‟s the Statue of Liberty that‟s the symbol of America. You leave San Francisco, it‟s that bridge.” (38:30) “That‟s the bridge.” �(38:33) “And you‟re leaving it. And you‟re going into parts unknown. Was there any emotions or thoughts going through your head?” (38:38) “Oh, sure. Sure. And, of course, when we leave there‟s a pilot that takes the ship out. We get out in the ocean, and then they bring us our orders. The captain of the ship don‟t even know where he‟s headed when he goes out of that gate. He gets his orders after he‟s out to sea.” (39:02) “Was this one ship or was this a convoy?” (39:06) “No we went alone.” (39:10) “Was there zigzag? Okay.” (39:13) “Yeah, we had a zigzag course, change speeds. That purpose was so that the enemy couldn‟t pick up your course and have a submarine waiting for you. Or, airplane, whatever.” (39:27) “Especially ships with a lot of troops on it. They were targets.” (39:31) “Absolutely.” (39:39) “Now, the trip over had one very unusual event. People don‟t often realize that when you cross over the equator, the Navy, especially has this kind of ceremony. I wonder if you could talk about the King Neptune Ceremony?” (39:47) “When you go across the equator, you got to be initiated. You‟re a pollywog. And so they have initiation and we were unfortunate, really, because we had a bunch of Army men onboard and the biggest share of them were going out for the second tour and they‟d been across the equator before. I think we could have handled the regular crew that had been across before, but not with the Army helping them. When you get an initiation, it makes these hazings look pretty tame. That is one initiation that is, well, fact is, it‟s in every man‟s record yet that he‟s been initiated.” (40:43) “So you‟ve got a king and a queen. The queen dresses up in a wig, okay. And they‟ve got a king and they‟ve got a couple other people in the court there to make sure that you do this…” (40:56) “Yeah. You‟ve got King Neptune and his Royal Family, is what it‟s called. And you got everybody down to the baby. And part of the initiation was, you had to kiss the baby‟s rear end. And he had graphite grease on it, so you can imagine what you looked like when you were done.” �(41:21) “Aw, gawd.” (41:25) “One guy bit it, and boy did he take a beating. Yeah, he took a beating. He was black and blue.” (41:31) “What did they do to you?” (41:36) “Well, they actually used electric welders to give you shocks. They have a tank that is built out of canvas and two by fours and it‟s filled partially with water and they put you in there and you gotta try and crawl out and then they have two and a half inch rope, covered with canvas that‟s been soaking in water and they‟re hitting ya when you are trying to get out of there. (42:00) And another thing is, they had a tunnel they made out of canvas with rings and you had to crawl through that tunnel and they had a fire hose shooting in your face. And they had these outfits and they was hitting you while you were trying to crawl through. It was something different. Then of course, they took a razor and go right over the top of your head and we had one man he had a beautiful head of hair. And of course we down in the tropics and he didn‟t like a hat anyway. He said „If they want me to get rid of my hair, I‟m going to shave my head.‟ So he shaved his hair and it never came back.” (42:48) “Oh.” (42:51) “He was sick. He didn‟t know whether he wanted to go home or not. He had his, evidently, the sun never hit on his skull. Killed the rest of his hair.” (43:08) “Did they slop stuff on your face and all that? Did they have a makeshift swimming pool that they dumped you in?” (43:14) “Well, that was the one we had to crawl out of. And they were hitting...” (43:18) “This is the canvas? It‟s basically a makeshift swimming pool.” (43:22) “Yeah. They made it out of canvas and two by fours. You had. It was a ten foot wall and you had to jump up and catch that and then crawl out and even once in a while there‟d be somebody already up there stepping on your fingers. All depends on whether they like you.” (43:50) “So you finally got through that ceremony and where did you arrive? Where did you get to?” �(43:55) “Our first stop was New Caledonia. That was down there near Australia.” (44:03) “By now, you said you got orders, right? So you know basically where you‟re going?” (44:09) “No. We didn‟t. Well, we knew we were headed for New Caledonia, but from there, no.” (44:18) “You arrive in New Caledonia. Did you get a chance to go off shore?” (44:24) “We went ashore there, yes.” (44:28)“Well, let‟s stop here for a moment. You‟ve never been to Asia. You get off the ship in New Caledonia. What was that experience like? The smell? The heat?” (44:38) “New Caledonia wasn‟t bad. That was a French hold, New Caledonia. They had natives there. Their skin was black, but they never got their hair cut so their hair, instead of bleaching out white, bleached out red. But they did have some of these natives working around the docks and stuff, but the biggest share of them….and one guy had a pair of cowboy boots he threw out in the dumpster there on the dock and two of these natives came along and it was a pair of shoes, you know? They each grabbed a shoe, but they couldn‟t get their foot in it. So they went off with their toe in just the upper part. But they had a shoe.” (45:34) “There was some French Naval people there on New Caledonia. Of course France at that time, Germany had control of France. I suppose what little military they had was out that way. It wasn‟t as primitive as a lot of those islands were.” (46:00) “Okay. You were there to pick up supplies or troops, or what were you there for?” (46:04) “Well, that‟s where we took those troops that we had over.” (46:08) “Now, did you know where these troops were supposed to be going or are you just loading troops on?” (46:12) “No. And there, too, being the landing craft, we‟d take these guys to shore. We didn‟t have to go to the docks like your other ships, see. And we did all the landing craft. If somebody had to go ashore, then we took them in the �landing craft. And if we picked up spice, we usually picked up our supplies with the landing craft and brought them back.” (46:38) “Were the troops…what branch of service were the troops?” (46:43) “They were Army.” (46:46) “Okay. From New Caledonia, where did you go?” (46:50) “We went to Guadalcanal.” (46:53) “Guadalcanal. Now. This was of course after Guadalcanal had been taken.” (46:57) “Yes.” (47:01) “This was one of the bloodiest battles in American history but by the time you got there, it was already secured. Did you see any evidence of what had happened before?” (47:09)”Oh, yeah. You see the wreckages and stuff.” (47:15) “You mean wreckages in the water?” (47:20) “Yeah and the damage along the edge. Fact is, there‟s where we took our practice landings. We picked up the First Marine Division and then we‟d practice there and then we‟d go off maybe to another island then land them on another island. There is quite a chain of islands in that area.” (47:45) “So this was practice, not only for you but for the troops to hit the beach, secure the beach. So you‟re part of military training operations in preparation for wherever you‟re going.” (47:57) “And a lot of these guys had been through battle before.” (48:01) “Already.” (48:05) “But, yeah. It was for both. And even you make your plans for invasion and it‟s got to be tested, you know. I mean it wasn‟t just for us to drive the landing craft or the guys that was running out of the landing craft when they hit the beach. It was for the wheels to see how it was going. Is there something we could change that could save somebody‟s life?” �(48:30) “I know it‟s difficult to compare yourself to fellow coxswains, but when you landed your craft, did you feel like you were getting it right at the right spot so that they could get on or were there a few mess ups here and there?” (48:52) “Well, it was kind of comical at Guadalcanal. See you got down in that area and you had an awful lot of coral. We‟re down near the coral islands.” (49:00) “Totally different than practicing in California.” (49:06) “Yes. On the beach, sandy beach. And, we were going full speed in toward the beach, a full load of troops on all at once, we hit a coral head and that front end came up in the air and couldn‟t do nothing with it. So I says, „Pete, got to ramp.‟ We dropped the ramp, some guys stepped off and, boom, water up to here. The only way you could get off was to get the weight out of there, see?” (49:41)“You were stuck in other words. You couldn‟t move forward.” (49:45) “I couldn‟t move there because coral is sharp. You even walk on it with leather shoes and it will cut the leather in your shoes.” (49:54) “Yeah. I‟ve heard it shreds your boots.” (49:58) “And this was a wooden bottom so it...” (50:04) “What was the make up of these landing craft? What were they made of?” (50:08) “Wood, except for the ramp which was metal.” (50:14) “So if you run aground on coral, doesn‟t that tear a hole into the wood?” (50:21) “Well, they‟ve got a good sized keel. A keel is your center piece. It‟s way back from the bow.” (50:35) ”So whatever you hit is going to hit that first.” (50:38)“Yeah. Actually even our screw has got something under it so it won‟t drag.” (50:47) “But it still stops you in your tracks.” �(50:51) “Oh, yes.” (50:54) „So, how did you overcome that? I mean you couldn‟t see the coral, is that right?” (50:59) “Well, you could some, but see what you had was this deckhand, I‟ll call him. He just was supposed to be your guide because that ramp is up there high enough and it‟s hard. You can‟t see anything below. You can see something off in the distance. He‟s supposed to guide me. If he sees the coral ahead, he‟s supposed to signal to me. He didn‟t do it and maybe he didn‟t see it. There was enough landing crafts that made landings there that had things stirred up, too. And if there‟s any silt…I never blamed him. There was nothing said. This was part of practice. I said Pete, but it‟s Chuck. „Chuck, next time you have to watch out for this.‟ ” (51:51) “But then there were other landings – this is practice now – there were other landings where you hit the beach solid and the thing went down and they ran out on the beach and they were fine? So it depended. There was really no way of knowing what the result was going to be.” (52:06) “You had your designated place to hit. Now you can‟t say, 'Hey, this don‟t look good. I want to go over here a hundred yards.‟ Somebody else has got that. You would…when you went into the beach, you went in like a wave. There was a whole line of you and you stayed your distance from the guy next to you. You got to go in where you can.” (52:32) “Was there any briefing like, „You now have to load your troops, you‟re going onto the beach, you‟re going to load this thing, and, oh, by the way, people will be shooting at you.‟?” Would they give you any indication of the kind of firepower that was going to be coming at you?” (52:49) “No.” (52:54) “But you knew you weren‟t just going to cruise in there and let these guys off for a picnic.” (53:03) “We weren‟t going for a beer party.” �(53:11) “But there wasn‟t any, „Well they‟ve got these kind of cannons and they‟ve got these kind of resistance and be prepared for aircraft trying to bomb you.‟ Was there any kind of briefings like that?” (53:21) “You knew that. They‟d say, „We might hit heavy resistance.‟ But, no. They had no way of knowing for sure.” (53:30) “So once the training was over with, where did you go from there? After Guadalcanal?” (53:37) “Then we ended up at Ulithi. That was a staging area.” (53:43) “Now, Ulilthi, you call it a staging area. This was a huge area in which all kinds of ships are there? And it was a staging area to then go into battle. So now you‟re about to go into battle and you know you‟re about to go into battle.” (54:00) “Oh, we knew what was up.” (54:09) “Now, Guadalcanal you knew was training.” (54:12) “We knew we were getting ready for battle, yeah. All the way. The fact is, when we put the landing craft onboard, you knew what they were for.” (54:16) “Okay. Now at Ulithi, you know it‟s coming up real soon. It‟s not like before. I mean you knew you were going into battle in Coronado, too but, I don‟t think it‟s the same kind of feeling as at Ulithi.” (54:26) “Then we could enjoy running these landing crafts.” (54:32) “Did you get an impression of how big this operation was from Ulilthi? Because it‟s a lot of ships there.” (54:40) “Yes. Well, we did have fighting ships there. The fighting ships are all big. Ulithi, that area is really just a high spot in the ocean, a good anchorage area. The little islands are Anoita, Mogmog. Fact is, we used to take troops over on Mogmog and you can‟t even find it on the map. So they could get off the ship and stretch out, do something. Because when you‟ve got that many men on board ship, especially in the tropics, it‟s heck.” (55:18) “And it‟s like sardines. This troop ship is not like a luxury liner. They‟re packed in. Well, we‟ve talked to guys who were literally standing up, because you couldn‟t lay down, or sit down in some cases.” �(55:32) “Well, we had to stand up to eat. Even the crew had to stand up to eat when we had troops on board.” (55:41) “Because it‟s a continuous line of food. They just keep going. There‟s always food being served.” (55:51) “So, from Ulithi, where did you go?” (55:55) “That‟s when we went to Okinawa.” (56:00) “Now this is real battle. This is the real deal. Where were you? Were you in a convoy?” (56:03) “Yes.” (56:08) “Where were you in the convoy?” (56:09) “I don‟t know. See, a convoy, you have….you‟re in the center. The troop ships are in the center, then you have your other fighting ships are on the outside. We could be on lookout watching for planes, which we did all the time. You can see the aircraft carriers and planes actually landing on them.” (56:35) “This is the Franklin? The Franklin was out there.” (56:39) “Yes. And then you had your cruisers and your battleships and outside of that you had your aircraft. But the aircraft stayed outside of the convoy. Once an enemy plane any plane got over the top of the convoy, he was pretarget.” (57:06) “Friend or foe.” (57:06) “Yes.” (57:17) “So, you‟re part of this huge armada of fighting ships. You‟re right in the center of it. When did you get into battle? Was it the first day of the invasion of Okinawa?” (57:30) “Yes. It was the first morning. The fact is I left the ship before the ship actually dropped anchor. I was designated Wave Leader. We had the First Marine Division on board, but I had to be a Wave Leader for the Sixth Marine Division.” (57:53) “Now, what is a Wave Leader?” �(57:54) “He led the waves into the beach.” (58:00) ”And how many were in a wave?” (58:01) “A full length of the beach.” (58:02) “How many landing crafts are we talking about?” (58:03) “Oh, I don‟t know.” (58:13) “Okay.” (58:18) “As far as the beach extends. I have no idea there was, but anyhow, each one had every so often so far you had a wave leader. He was running between well, say, like me, I was between the second wave and the third, leading the third in.” (58:38) “But it‟s still on the first day.” (58:43) ”On the first day. Fact is, I had to run, the put me over the side. Near as I can figure it out, it was about 4:30 in the morning when we had to go find these...” (58:53) “The ship.” (58:57) “…amphibious ducks. Then we ground the boob to a bib. And I led amphibious ducks onto the beach.” (59:00) “Now, was there, in the very early morning, you get up. You know what you‟re supposed to be doing. You‟re a Wave Leader and you‟re supposed to rendezvous with the duck. Had the shooting started?” (59:21) “Yes. They were shelling the beach. “ (59:25) “Okay. So this was going on already.” (59:28) “Oh, yes. Yes.” (59:32) “So you‟re on the center, but on the outer rim and you‟ve just got this huge amount of „Boom! Boom! Boom!‟ They‟re just shelling the….“Not the….just on the beach area. Towards the beach area. Only when the enemy planes came in did you hear the other shooting.” �(59:50) “Right. But we‟re talking about when you get up. It‟s 4:30. You‟ve got your assignment; you know where you‟re going. Had the shooting already started?” (59:54) “We could hear it in the distance.” (59:58) “Okay. The ships are that far away from you that you could hear it in the distance as opposed to hearing it close up.” (1:00:03) “Oh yeah.” (1:00:06) “I‟ve seen aerial film footage of the armada and even with that, you can‟t get an idea of how big this was.” (1:00:11) “No. That‟s right.” (1:00:20) “So, you‟re in the center and you‟re hearing off in the distance, the shelling. It‟s that far from where you are. That‟s amazing.” (1:00:25) “Of course, those are big bombs. See you‟re not shooting rifles at that time. It‟s the big guns.” (1:00:32) “All right. So, you get into your landing craft from your location. You‟ve got two other guys with you, Pete and Chuck is that right?” (1:00:41) “No, I had Chuck and Phil. Phil.” (1:00:47) “And now you‟re in your landing craft on the water and you‟re going to rendezvous with where you‟re going to pick up the duck, right?” (1:00:54) “Yeah. I had one naval officer with me.” (1:00:59) “So you did find it?” (1:01:06) ”They gave me a pretty good compass course.” (1:01:18) “How did they get the duck onto your landing craft?” (1:01:22) “The duck? Well, that didn‟t get on ours.” �(1:01:23) “Oh, okay.” (1:01:30) “They came out of these…they had these bigger landing crafts that they…” (1:01:31) “…brought the ducks in. Ok.” (1:01:37) “They could bring them in, but they couldn‟t get to the beach, see. They had to unload out there for the invasion. Otherwise, if they‟d have gone in, they‟d have been the only target. This way….” (1:01:42) “But the duck and the other landing craft were part of your wave?” (1:01:47) “Yes. Just the ducks. These are L.S.M.s. I don‟t know whether you‟ve heard of them. They‟re an amphibious outfit only they‟re the kind that you‟ve got to clear the beach and everything so you can get them in there. They do have, for the personnel ones; they have a walkway on each side, like the amphibious ducks and they could let them out the front. They didn‟t have to take them way in to the beach, because the ducks could... ” (1:02:18)“I see. On the water. Okay. What were you carrying in your landing craft?” (1:02:23) “I just had my own officer and a couple marine officers.” (1:02:33) “So your job was just to lead the waves.” (1:02:37) “I had the officers of the waves. A lot of people don‟t realize this. You take your lieutenants, J.G.s, and your ensigns and that kind of stuff, they may be above the enlisted men, but they‟re the first ones to…” (1:03:01) “Hit the beach.” (1:03:03) “ ..A lot of your low rank officers - that‟s one of the most dangerous spots there is, because if you‟re going to be a leader, you have to be in the front.” (1:03:17) “And that‟s the ones they‟re looking to pick off.” (1:03:21) “Let‟s go through your first experience then, the first wave.” �(1:03:32) “We rendezvous with the ducks and then when we got the orders to move, the battleship West Virginia was between us and the beach. So we had to go around the bows of the West Virginia.” (1:03:44) “Were they firing?” (1:03:49) “Yes. They were shelling the beach. We had to go around the bow to go into the beach and that was, well, maybe you can imagine a sixteen-inch gun, what a concussion it has.” (1:04:08) “Loud, really loud.” (1:04:10) “Deafening. We had, I‟m surprised that it didn‟t affect the ears. Of course we had helmets on, which probably blocked a lot of it. That was one of the experiences that stand out as much as anything, going around that West Virginia and the guns shooting over our heads.” (1:04:38) “So you‟re now heading with this wave toward the beach and you‟re seeing explosions on the beach?” (1:04:47) “Dive bombers and shelling.” (1:04:52) “And they‟re coming from the aircraft. Was there any shelling coming at you?” (1:04:58) “Not that I know of, no.” (1:05:04) “So really you‟re heading into a beach area that‟s being pounded, bombarded, but you‟re not seeing the return fire. You‟re just bringing the guys in.” (1:05:13) “Yeah. To be honest with you, we didn‟t get much resistance right away. It was a scary part, being in the third wave, but we had more tragic things happen afterwards because they had, there was a sea wall and they had caves in that sea wall. As long as they were staying in…” (1:05:42) “They were safe.” (1:05:46) “Well, if they came out, they wouldn‟t last. No. They did a real good job of softening up the beach.” (1:05:54) “So, what happened when you landed?” (1:05:58) “I got them guys out and took off again!” �(1:06:05)“Well, I figured that.” (1:06:10) “I landed, let the marine officers out.” (1:06:14) “Did you land well enough so that they didn‟t get wet?” (1:06:17) “Oh, yeah. If you get a sandy beach. You can slide that thing right up on the beach. And then, if you can‟t get enough wake for a wave to come in, then you give it gas and you wash the sand off the landing pad. Pretty soon you can get off the beach again.” (1:06:38) “Little tricks like that take practice.” (1:06:42) “That‟s what it was all about.” (1:06:47) “You know what is interesting, too, though is getting it right like that forces you to focus on what you‟re doing. If you hit the beach right, you want to make sure you get the sand off so even if people are shooting at you, that‟s what you‟re focused on, is to get the sand off there, get the thing back and then get out of there.” (1:07:01) Yes. And you gotta go, when you back out, you got to get beyond the breakers to turn around. You gotta go backwards until you get beyond to where the water starts rolling, you see. Because if you get sideways, it will carry you right back sideways into the beach. So you gotta.” (1:07:23) “Sideways is not the way you want to be, because you‟re a bigger target for one thing.” (1:07:35) “Not only that, but you can‟t get off by yourself. You‟re in the way. Somebody‟s got to pull you off or you aren‟t going to get back out.” (1:07:38) “So you survived the first. You brought the officers in. Now you go back where? Where did you go back to?” (1:07:46) I went back and picked up another wave.” (1:07:50) “Is this ducks again?” (1:07:53) “No, these are L.C.D.P.s, just like I was driving.” (1:07:55) ”Okay. And they have troops?” �(1:07:55) “Yes.” (1:07:57) “So, now you still have to go around the West Virginia?” (1:08:00) “No.” (1:08:01) “Okay. So you are in a different position?” (1:08:03) “These ducks were assigned to be in the area where the West Virginia was.” (1:08:09) “Oh, I see.” (1:08:11) “This is the thing, you go back out and I had a compass course where to go, so it wasn‟t back where I came from.” (1:08:22) “Okay. So you bring in the next wave and these are troops now. Are they Marines?” (1:08:26) “These are Marines.” (1:08:29) “Okay.” (1:08:30) “The fact is this was the First Marine Division. I went back to where my ship was, in that area. I just don‟t remember it. I mean, we made so many trips, I don‟t know which is which.” (1:08:43) “Sure. I understand that.” (1:08:45) “We went back and we, I believe that, near as I can remember it was only two waves that I led in. Then we started running separately. Run at you. Give me a compass course and that way you kept the beach parties had landing craft there to be unloaded and stuff continued.” (1:09:11) “So, after you led the second landing wave, now you and the other guys are going where you‟re assigned. Load some troops. Bring them in. Get back. Load some troops. Get back in. Had the Japanese responded by this time? Are you being attacked?” (1:09:28) “They were starting, yes. They were coming out. And of course, we were aiming at suicide planes up by the beach.” (1:09:37) “What was your first, I know it‟s difficult trying to pinpoint your first, first time you saw one of these aircrafts diving at something. �Did you think he was just damaged and was just crashing there? Did you actually figure, „Wait a minute, these guys are really…‟” (1:09:52) “We knew they was suicide. Because they‟d been using them before we made the invasions. That‟s when the Franklin got hit, before the invasions.” (1:10:03) “Right. Did you see, coming back, did you see any of the American ships getting damaged?” (1:10:16) “Not actually see them get hit, no.” (1:10:19) “Okay. You‟re too focused on getting the guys there and getting back, getting the guys there. You‟re not sightseeing.” (1:10:23) “No. You got your own landing path and, see, you‟re not only dodging other landing craft and stuff, and you‟ve got so much stuff in the water. Fact is we ruined the screw. I hit something and ruined the screw and we had to go into a different ship so we could repair it. It was the only time I got off; got out of the water, from the time I was put in the water until I…” (1:11:00) “Right. By „stuff in the water,‟ what do you mean?” (1:11:05) “Oh, fragments and anything that would float. See these landing crafts were wood. They get blowed up and there‟s a lot of wood and that stuff floating around.” (1:11:18) “I don‟t want to get into gory details because I know it‟s difficult but, were you witnessing around you the carnage? I mean, guy getting hit and things getting blown up and…” (1:11:31) “A lot of that….I‟ll just… For instance, one night there was a river there and after we‟d, they‟d set up so that we could go up that river and get rid of some of this stuff and I had to make my landing up that river. Right at the mouth of the river was a fishing barge that had been sunk. During the night, the Japanese brought this fishing barge and they‟d pick at it. So we finally had to burn it. And I saw once the Japanese come out of one of those caves, shooting. Until somebody shot him. (1:12:31) “No, as far as, say like a Marine, or someone like that, I didn‟t get that much. It was, see, the Navy is so much different than land force. In the Navy, well like the Pragmant. It took fifteen hundred men in one blow. In the Marines they could take one man, one shot. Like us, too. Our biggest problem �as far as the enemy was if they dropped a mortar in one of these landing crafts, they blew up the whole thing.” (1:13:16) “Did you have any close calls?” (1:13:20) “Yes.” (1:13:25) “How long did the operation last, from 4:30 in the morning, until you mentioned at night? Was this going on all day?” (1:13:32) “Oh, yes. We ran for five days steady.” (1:13:36) “Five days steady?” (1:13:39) “Day and night.” (1:13:40) “Did you get any sleep?” (1:13:42) “Oh, maybe. I can‟t remember. Sometimes I guess I dozed off.” (1:13:55) “This is a stupid question, too, but what about eating? Was it still the same regiment of scheduled time to eat? (1:14:02) ”That‟s another thing. I don‟t remember stopping to eat for five days. I don‟t remember stopping to eat. I probably had a c ration or dog biscuit or something like that, but I guess that was your last thought. Once in a while if it got over a bit and it was light going, the deckhand would take over and drive a while.” (1:14:33) “So after the five days of running straight, what happened?” (1:14:38) “Well, one of our landing crafts was broke down up on the beach, so I hooked onto him, hooked a rope to him and was going to take him back to the ship, see? And I hadn‟t been unloading our ship. Our ship had been unloaded and we were working on others. I was taking him back to the ship, and here‟s the ship‟s pulled anchor! Is moving. And it was quite a rough sea. So, I did pull him along side and they hooked the cables up to him and were raising him up. Every time they would get him part way up, the wave would go off another and then he‟d come down the end of those cables and it finally pulled the slings right out of the landing craft so they threw a chain ladder over into the landing craft so the guys could grab on and they did. They got out of there and then this landing craft dropped back down and sunk. And we was, of course, following along, hoping to get back on board and all at once they said, „Sorry. We can‟t wait for you.‟ We were out away from the fleet quite a bit by then. Because, �and I didn‟t know it until afterwards. They said, „Sorry, we can‟t wait for you.” and then they took off and here we were in set the middle of the ocean with about a third of a tank of fuel, all by ourselves. Now what are we going to do? Well, we‟re not going back to the beach. We‟ll find a home somewhere. We did. We found the ship that lost a landing craft. It took us aboard.” (1:16:42) “You know, one of the things that we haven‟t talked about, but you just mentioned briefly, was that this was not smooth sailing, this is rocky, this is really rough waters out here.” (1:16:55) “You aren‟t kidding.” (1:16:56) “So it‟s not just a matter of loading some troops onto a landing craft and then going off like Gilligan‟s Island to the beach. The troops getting off were in danger because they are coming down off these rope ladders and they‟ve got to somehow get into your landing craft as it‟s bouncing up and down, but as you‟re taking it in, it‟s bouncing up and down as well, so you have to navigate through all that. When you went to pick up that damaged landing craft on the beach, the fighting had stopped by that time on the beach anyway?” (1:17:32) “Right on the beach. Yes.” (1:17:34) “So the fighting was still going on inland and you could hear that?” (1:17:37) “Yes.” (1:17:42) “But you were relatively safe.” (1:17:42) “We were quite safe, yeah, except that then there wasn‟t much of the long-range guns coming from the Japanese. It was mostly suicides, see?” “If I‟m not mistaken, I‟ve seen figures once. It said that Japanese used nineteen hundred suicide planes.” (1:18:05) “In that battle.” (1:18:10) “Plus, they used boats that came from down the beach at night. They‟d come up and ram ships with torpedoes. There was one ship we saw involved in that. We went back to get another load and they weren‟t there.” (1:18:29) “Where were you sent after the five days of battle of Okinawa?” �(1:18:37) “Then I got aboard this other ship and went back to Saipan. And that‟s where we went and my ship was there, also. I happen to get the right ship. Either that, or they all went back after a while. No, we went back to Saipan.” (1:19:01) “And what were you doing in Saipan?” (1:19:04) “Loading up.” (1:19:06) “For more troops?” (1:19:07) “To be honest with you, I‟d have to look at that. No, I think we came back to the States after that.” (1:19:16) “Okay.” (1:19:17) “We got out of Okinawa. We were back in Okinawa on the fourth of July. We were there Easter Sunday then we come back and re-loaded.” (1:19:36) “But you headed back to the States now?” (1:19:38) “We came back to the States and got another load.” (1:19:41) “Where did you come back to? San Francisco?” (1:19:43) “San Francisco.” (1:19:45) “So you got back to San Francisco, you loaded up again with new supplies, then where did you go?” (1:19:50) “Right back to Okinawa.” “Okay.” (1:19:53) “It was quite quiet then.” (1:19:58) “And what was that purpose of going back to Okinawa? Just to unload supplies?” (1:19:58) “Take a load back.” (1:20:04) “Okay. So you‟re still in the landing craft?” (1:20:06) “They‟re still fighting.” �(1:20:07) “Okay. So what you‟re doing is you‟re basically providing the supplies for the Marines, for the American military that‟s continuing to fight the battle.” (1:20:20) “We don‟t only haul troops, but we haul cargo, too. We haul enough to supply these troops when they‟re on the beat.” (1:20:29) “Right.” (1:20:29) “And that‟s the idea of the ship. But then they have another ship that‟s practically the same size ship, same kind of ship, called A.K.A. and that‟s cargo and they haul like your kegs and that kind of stuff. We haul mostly for foot troops and when we‟re out there then we all move these other ships.” (1:20:59) “Now, where do you go from Okinawa?” (1:21:04) “Boy, I don‟t know. I‟d have to look it up again.” (1:21:08) “Okay. Well, you didn‟t have further battle, right?” (1:21:12) “No. That‟s all of that. We probably went to the Philippines because when the war ended we were in Leyte, loading up troops for the invasion of the mainland.” (1:21:30) “So you were part of what was to be the invasion of Japan.” (1:21:34) “Yeah.” (1:21:37) “How did you hear about the war ending?” (1:21:41) “Well, we was in Leyte Bay, and I‟m going to picture the whole thing. Then we heard it right there in Leyte Bay. That night, see, every craft has flares, even our landing craft; in case we get out there all by ourselves and the ship‟s going somewhere, why we can shoot a flare. And that Leyte Bay was just something else. Everybody was shooting their flares.” (1:22:14) “Like fireworks on the Fourth of July?” (1:22:17) “It was fireworks, but it was for miles.” (1:22:22) “Now, I understand you had a chance to call your mother at home?” �(1:22:26) “Well, when I came back to California.” (1:22:29) ”What did she tell you?” (1:22:33) “She said, „Hey, they have a bomb now that I think the war is going to be over pretty quick.‟” (1:22:38) “So she‟s telling you about the A-bomb and you didn‟t even know about it. You had to hear it from your mother!” (1:22:45) “Yeah. We didn‟t get much news. People back home knew more about what was going on than we did.” (1:22:55) “Now, were you part of the occupation of Japan?” (1:22:58) “We landed the occupation of troops.” (1:23:01) ”Okay.” (1:23:04) “See these troops that we were picking up to take up to hit mainland, we used them as occupation troops.” (1:23:10) So when bomb was dropped, Japan had an unconditional surrender. Now the Americans are coming to occupy Japan. Macarthur is about to arrive. So, you brought the actual troops that were part of the occupation of Japan.” (1:23:28) “We made two landings. One on the mainland, main island, the north end and then there‟s a bay goes between the two islands and we landed troops on the north island also.” (1:23:43) “Did you get a chance to spend any time in Japan?” (1:23:47) “Yeah. We did. One of the first cities that we landed occupational troops in had been all completely bombed out. It was. The second one hadn‟t been touched. The fact is we even went in to the shopping area.” (1:24:09) “What was your reaction? Granted, you weren‟t fighting hand-tohand combat or anything, but, you know, this was our enemy. What was your impression when you first arrived in Japan? First, let‟s go to the one that was bombed out. What was your reaction in seeing all this devastation?” (1:24:24) “Well, that one there, there was nobody there. And when we first came in, they‟d all took off because they‟d heard we were coming, I guess. And, �there wasn‟t nothing to see there. But then, they started coming back before we left. You know, we were jittery, too. Here‟s the enemy that we‟d been fighting and they were just as meek, they accepted us. (1:24:56) You know the thing that amazes me in this reminiscence here, the mighty R, was pictures of American personnel standing with gay, you know, women in the traditional [garb] and they‟re all smiling as if, I mean you could have taken that picture, except for the fact that the military uniforms kind of set the period that it‟s the 1940‟s, you could have put it in the 1990‟s or the year 2000 and just some tourists showing up. I mean was the reaction of the Japanese to you suspicion or fearful or was there a friendliness or?” (1:25:27) “I honestly believed the Japanese people themselves felt like we came and liberated them. I had a chance to go to the Hawaiian Islands and I rode in the plane with a fellow that was half Japanese and half Hawaiian. Him and I got to talking. His dad was Japanese. And I say to him, „You know, sometimes I think we liberated the Japanese.‟ And he said, „My dad said the same thing. They liberated us.‟” (1:26:12) “Yes.” (1:26:18) “This is what surprised us, they greeted us. And we weren‟t scared of them either. I mean we were afraid they were going to be, the way they fought. They were treacherous. But the way they acted then, they weren‟t.” (1:26:34) “Another thing you had mentioned another time was the number of women and children and lack of men.” (1:26:43) “Yeah.” (1:26:46) ”I mean, who was doing the work? Who was doing the cleaning up and all that?” (1:26:51) “Well, I don‟t think Japan had too many men left. Even their suicide planes, they were training sixteen-year-olds, to fly.” (1:27:02) “When did it finally end for you? You left Japan and where did you go from there?” (1:27:10) “Oh, boy!! Probably back to Leyte, back to the Philippines. We went to Tau Beach quite often, because there‟s where an awful lot of our staging areas was for that part of the war.” �(1:27:31) “But then finally, what, back to the States?” (1:27:35) “Yeah. Well, then we started hauling troops back. They called that the magic carpet duty.” (1:27:46) “Why was it the magic carpet duty?” (1:27:49) “Because we was magic…we were going home! We started hauling troops back and then we had to re-do our ship to a certain extent but then we got rid of most of our landing crafts. I still had one because I was transferred. They broke up the landing craft crew and put what they needed back out on the deck force or in the engine room or wherever they could use them. And a certain amount of them, the guys that had more time in, they were getting discharged. But then we made our cargo crews over into apartment crews, hauling troops. They put up, well actually, made them bunks or just a piece of pipe bent around with canvas waste in the center. And they were hanging on chains and hinged on one side. And we stacked them eight high.” (1:28:55) “In these cargo areas.” (1:29:04) “Where did you arrive back to the States? San Francisco.” (1:29:07) “San Francisco.” (1:29:08) “What was your reaction seeing that San Francisco bridge?” (1:29:10) “See I‟d had the privilege in being back there after we‟d been to Asia. So, it‟s always a pretty sight. The thing that always bothers, confuses people as much as anything is that every day the sun comes up the west and went down in the east. As soon as I got away from that bridge, I got my directions turned around. I did that every time I went across. Everything was just backwards. So when I read my compass, I had to read it backwards.” (1:29:46) “That‟s amazing.” (1:29:49) “I was going the wrong direction, but I got there.” (1:29:53) “Now eventually you got discharged and on your way home. How did you get back to Grand Rapids?” (1:30:01) „Well, in the first place, I got hurt onboard before I came. So then I went to a hospital and Treasure Island for a while and then I came home on a delay en-route. They gave me thirty days to go back to Great Lakes, so I came home for thirty days and then went back to Great Lakes.‟ �(1:30:27) “Oh, okay.” (1:30:33) “I didn‟t have quite enough points to get out, but I had too many to be reassigned, so they just discharged me.” (1:30:42) ”Let you go. So, you finally got home and your family was there to greet you?” (1:30:48) “Oh yes.” (1:30:55) “The whole family?” (1:30:53) “Yes.” (1:30:58) “The brothers were back from the war?” (1:31:03) ”No I had one that was stayed in. When I stay stayed in – he went in, he was drafted that was, and he came out as captain. He seen he was a captain, he had put in more time.” (1:31:10) ”That‟s got to be a great homecoming.” (1:31:13) “Oh, yeah. Came back in one piece. I‟ve got another little story here. The neighborhood I lived in, we had a church there, a little country church. And we had twenty-eight men from that, they had a flag, a star for each man that was gone, twenty-eight of them and all twenty-eight came back. So we were blessed. They all came back.” (1:31:54) “Let me ask you one more question. How do you feel your military experience, not necessarily your combat experience, but your military experience shaped the person that you are today?” (1:32:09) “I hope that it made me a better man. I don‟t know what I‟d have been otherwise, but I think I have a little more respect for other people because while when we were in the military, we weren‟t in there for the dollars in a sense. I try to keep that same attitude today. It‟s a mental attitude. It taught me to appreciate what I have. I saw people out there in those tropics, I‟ll go backwards here a little ways. Being in the landing craft, we‟d get around some of these islands where they were living in grass huts and that kind of stuff and loincloths and then I get back and see what I have over what they had.” (1:33:20) “Well, I want to thank you very much for sitting down with me. I hope it wasn‟t too trying of an experience.” (1:33:27) “Well, it wasn‟t trying for me. I appreciate it. I guess maybe it gave me a chance to just sit down and tell my story.” (1:33:33) “Good, good. I‟m glad to hear that. (1:33:37) The end of Interview (Tape runs until 1:35:48) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Burgess, Frederick J. (Interview transcript and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Burgess, Frederick J. Description An account of the resource Fred Burgess is a World War II veteran who served in the U.S. Navy from June 23, 1944 to May 16, 1946. During the course of the interview he discusses in great detail his pre-enlistment, enlistment/basic training experience, and active duty in the South Pacific fighting against the Japanese. He describes in vivid detail the fighting on New Caledonia, Ulithe, Okinawa, in the Philippines, Saipan, and the suicide bomber attacks on the USS Franklin. He further goes into some detail about what the occupation of Japan was like. Burgess concludes by discussing what he got out of his military service. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-03-10 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BurgessF Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives