61 24 1541 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5d8c5f30e45d8348a3e7a2417c720831.mp4 89f8b942527e5f09984a79fb6b6ef43f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b85e5318a504e8f429a18d7c279383bc.pdf b2a95724d3387cb7dcc47002779db7b2 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Dr. Eugene Bleil World War II Interview Length: (02:00:04:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:13:00) · Bleil was born in Detroit, Michigan and after spending the first couple of years of Bleil’s life in the city, his family eventually moved to a small, ten-acre farm (00:00:13:00) o In 1925, his family moved to a farm in Ypsilanti, Michigan (00:00:35:00) o Bleil was born on August 29th, 1920 (00:00:41:00) o Bleil’s family lived on the farm in Ypsilanti for four years before moving to another farm in Belleville, Michigan in 1929; Bleil stayed at the farm in Belleville until he graduated from high school in 1938 (00:00:51:00) · Bleil had had a very illustrious track record while he was in high school, having never been defeated in the hurdles or dash, and at one point, he was invited to Eastern Michigan University to train for the Olympics as a hurdler (00:01:17:00) o However, Bleil did not have the money necessary to attend the university, so he borrowed the money and arrived at Eastern Michigan a week after classes had started (00:01:42:00) o Bleil went to classes during the morning, trained during the afternoon and evening and worked nights to pay for his expenses; however, he neglected to sleep and ended up sleeping during classes (00:01:55:00) § At one point, a friend of Bleil’s suggest Bleil was taking too many classes and suggested Bleil drop some of the classes but neglected to mention that Bleil needed to notify someone that he was doing so (00:02:23:00) § Instead, Bleil just stopped going to the classes, so at the end of the semester, he had a whole series of F’s where he had just quit going to the class (00:02:33:00) § The university president wrote a letter to Bleil’s mother saying Bleil was not a candidate for college and suggested Bleil attempt to find a job in a vocational field (00:02:49:00) · After the semester was over, Bleil continued working at his original job, which was working at a Mobil gas station (00:03:04:00) o At the time, Bleil and his brother were living in a house without heat, light, or water as well as no food (00:03:46:00) o In early 1939, Bleil and his brother signed up for job driving new cars to Oklahoma City (00:03:57:00) o When the brothers arrived in Oklahoma City, they had no place to go other than by railroad, so they became hobos and road the railroads across the western middle potion of the United States, finally settling in Denver with friends of their mother (00:04:28:00) § Once in Denver, Bleil got a job working raising rainbow trout from eggs until they were eighteen inches long (00:04:53:00) § Trout from the company was sold all over the world and one of Bleil’s �jobs was taking trout packed in ice to the airport, where the trout were then transported as far as Germany, Italy, and India (00:05:18:00) o By September, Bleil’s brother still could not find a job and told Bleil he was returning to Michigan; Bleil then quit his job and returned home to Michigan with his brother (00:05:45:00) · The brothers got home to Michigan but Bleil’s brother still could not find a job and in September, he came home with a full-page ad in a Detroit paper that read “Join the Air Corps, Learn to Fly” (00:06:21:00) o Bleil’s brother said he was going to join because the Air Corps would clothe him, feed him, house him, and pay him while he was there (00:06:45:00) o Bleil could not argue with the observation because at the time, his family was having trouble just getting enough food to eat (00:06:57:00) · After a while, Bleil decided he would join his brother in enlisting in the Air Corps, so they went to Detroit and joined the Army Air Corps (00:07:04:00) o Once Bleil and his brother officially enlisted, they were unable to leave the area and after awhile, they went to nearby Selfridge Field, where they and the other recruits received the equivalent of two years of college, with an emphasis on physics and mathematics (00:07:17:00) o At the end of the classes, all the recruits had to take a test and if they passed, they then had a physical; both Bleil and his brother passed the test but both flunked the physical because they both had a malocclusion of their teeth (00:08:09:00) § Bleil and his brother were not allowed to continue as pilots but were allowed to go to any other school they wanted (00:08:31:00) § Although Bleil and his brother had gone through a physical when they first enlisted in Detroit, it was only a mock physical; the Air Corps just wanted bodies and they did not care who made it in physically (00:08:50:00) o During the classes at Selfridge, Bleil and the other recruits were living in clapboard buildings where none of the doors or windows fit properly, so during the winter, the snow and wind would whistle through (00:09:48:00) § The food the recruits were given was fabulous; the mess sergeant for the base was rated the best mess sergeant in the service (00:10:11:00) · After a meal was over, the mess sergeant would stand by the waste basket and each recruit would have to scrap his plate into the waste basket; if there was ever any left over food on a plate, the mess sergeant would ask why the recruit did not finish (00:10:30:00) o A recruit could either finish the food right there or shovel coal for half-an-hour to an hour, depending on how much food was left on the plate (00:10:52:00) · The recruits ate T-bone steaks that were an inch thick and as large as a dinner plate (00:11:28:00) · After taking the second physical and being told they could not be pilots, Bleil and his brother were sent in March to Scott Field outside of Belleville, Illinois (00:12:07:00) o The time spent at Scott Field was meant to see if the recruits could handle to rigors of being the Air Corps (00:12:15:00) o There were pigeons in the top of the old dirigible hangar where the recruits ate, so �they had to eat with their hats covering their plates to avoid the any pigeon poop that might drop down (00:12:39:00) § The dirigible hangar was heated using old pot-belly stoves that were huge (00:13:01:00) o Bleil and the group of recruits he was with spent their entire time at Scott Field in the dirigible hangar but after they left, serious changes were made to the personnel at the field; after the recruits had left the field, they received word that the supply officer and mess sergeant were both up for court-martial for embezzling money (00:13:18:00) o While at the field, the recruits trained under a heel-clicking captain who wore white gloves to inspect the recruits (00:13:57:00) § Again, the buildings on the base largely consisted of clapboard buildings with ill-fitting doors and windows, which made it impossible to keep the buildings clean (00:14:07:00) § The captain always “gigged” the recruits because they were never able to get the floors or windows clean (00:14:49:00) · When the captain gigged the recruits, the recruits were confined to quarters and instead of having passing and being allowed to go around the base, they had to clean their quarters (00:15:02:00) o The last week the recruits were at the field, their commanders allowed them to go to Belleville and East St. Louis; however, the recruits could not leave Illinois, so they could not go into St. Louis itself (00:15:34:00) · After leaving Scott Field, Bleil went to Chanute Field in Illinois, where he began receiving hands-on training with aircraft (00:16:35:00) o Bleil and the other recruits training on several different aircraft, taking them apart and putting them back together (00:16:42:00) § During the examinations, the instructors would purposely create problems in an aircraft and the recruits would then have to diagnose and repair the problem (00:16:51:00) o The training was a high-grade mechanics course and it helped all of the recruits immensely (00:17:05:00) o The recruits worked with both Pratt & Whitney and Wright Cyclone engines, as well as some smaller engines (00:17:20:00) § For the most part, the recruits trained using radial engines; they did not start training with in-line engines until later, when they were already in the field; never the less, the problems were usually the same (00:17:38:00) o Bleil was at Chanute Field from April until August, when both he and his brother contracted pneumonia, which caused them to be hospitalized; Bleil’s brother also contracted mumps, and the brothers were then separated (00:17:52:00) § Bleil’s brother stayed at Chanute Field and eventually graduated as an instrument specialist before becoming an instructor (00:18:17:00) · Bleil’s brother ended up never fighting overseas because Bleil had already deployed (00:18:35:00) · After finishing at Chanute, Bleil returned to Selfridge Field and was there for a short time before receiving word that he and the other men in the camp would be shipping out, although the Air Corps did not say where or did not say when (00:18:50:00) �o Eventually, someone came back with a newspaper article that said the men were being deployed to the Philippine Islands to help bolster the defense forces already on the island (00:19:02:00) o When he returned to Selfridge, Bleil returned to the 17th Pursuit Squadron, which he had been assigned to before he went to school (00:19:22:00) § At the time, pursuit squadrons consisted of single-engine fighter planes (00:19:35:00) § When Bleil re-joined the 17th Pursuit, the personnel already in the squadron came from numerous states; some of the older men in the squadron had already been there fifteen or twenty years and were only sticking around because they had nothing else to do (00:19:55:00) Philippines Deployment (00:20:33:00) · The squadron received information in September that they were going to be leaving Selfridge and they actually deployed in October 1940 (00:20:33:00) o After leaving Selfridge, Bleil and the other men in the squadron were shipped across the country by rail and were supposed to leave San Francisco aboard the S.S. Washington, a luxury liner converted to be a troop transport (00:20:48:00) o When the men arrived in California, another squadron, the 20th Pursuit, which was based in California, had a commander who outranked the 17th Pursuit’s commander, so the 20th Pursuit left on the Washington and the 17th Pursuit was sent to Angel Island (00:21:07:00) § The squadron spent the remainder of October and part of November stationed on Angel Island (00:21:59:00) o In the middle of November, the squadron did finally ship out, aboard the S.S. Etolin, an old transport ship (00:22:08:00) § For most of the journey, the men stay on the deck of the ship because it was insufferable to be below decks (00:22:22:00) § The Etolin stopped at Oahu but the men could not disembark from the ship; once the ship left Oahu, it sailed across the South Pacific and arrived in the Philippines on December 5th, 1940 (00:22:34:00) · The weather on the trip was all right; a little rocky, but other than that, everything was fine (00:22:52:00) § The smell below decks was what made it unbearable for the men to be down there; nobody wanted to be below deck, so all the men sat on the deck of the ship and mostly played cards during the voyage (00:23:00:00) § The 17th Pursuit was the only unit aboard the ship and from what Bleil can remember, there were about 180 enlisted men in the unit and not too many officers (00:23:15:00) · The squadron did not receive the majority of their officers until it was already in the Philippines and most of the new officers had never flown a pursuit fighter and had only had basic training using a two-seater airplane (00:23:37:00) o However, the two-seater airplanes were not very powerful compared to other airplanes (00:24:21:00) · Once the squadron was in the Philippines, the new officers started �training with P-26As, which were the first all-metal aircraft used by the Air Corps (00:24:47:00) o The P-26As had fixed landing gear, a low wing, and an open cockpit; fortunately, the P-26As used by the squadron had been modified to include a crash pad behind the pilot because the new officers were constantly crashing the airplanes into the ground (00:25:01:00) § The airplane itself was nose-heavy, so as pilots would come in to land, they would have trouble keeping the tail of the plane down and the airplane would flip over; sometimes, the airplanes even flipped during take-off (00:25:28:00) · The pilots had the same problem when they started using the larger P-35s, which was also nose-heavy (00:25:45:00) · Once in the Philippines, the squadron was based at Nichols Field and the men lived in a tent city of four-person tents (00:26:18:00) o However, the men eventually had to leave the tents in July because the rain season had caused a nearby river to overflow, which then flooded the area where the tents were and forced the men to walk in ankle-deep water; once the area flooded, the men moved into the hangers (00:26:35:00) o Nichols field was located a five or six miles south of Manila (00:27:31:00) § When they were off-duty, a lot of the men went into Manila but Bleil himself (00:27:41:00) § The squadron arrived on a Friday and on the following Sunday, Bleil and a couple of other men wanted to go watch the sunset on the South China Sea and Manila Bay (00:27:48:00) · The group went to the beach, watched the sunset, and as they were walking back to the base, they were crossing a bridge over the Paranaque river when they were stopped by a guard and ordered to carry a prophylactic of six large sulfur tablets (00:28:06:00) o After the incident, Bleil made up his mind that he would not go back across the Paranaque (00:28:38:00) o The guards assumed that anyone who left the base had visited the prostitutes in Manila, and even though the men tried to explain that they had only gone to watch the sunset, the guards did not care (00:28:45:00) o Filipino boys would come onto the base and would work, keeping the men’s tents in order for cheap (00:29:24:00) § However, there was not much for the boys to do anyway, apart from sweeping, organizing the beds, dusting off the beds, etc. (00:29:36:00) · In July, the squadron moved to the town of Iba in the province of Zambales to do a gunnery mission; some of the squadron returned to Nichols Field in September and some returned in October (00:30:05:00) o Just before the squadron left for Iba, Bleil contracted dengue fever, a very serious disease (00:30:24:00) �§ Doctors gave Bleil and the other afflicted men codeine and aspirin but nothing worked to alleviate the pain; there was no actual medicine that could cure the disease (00:30:45:00) § The disease was carried by mosquitoes, which made it similar to malaria, and it gave the men head-aches, fever, and made them feel like they had gone through a grinder (00:31:04:00) o Bleil suffered with the disease for a month and a half to almost two months (00:31:26:00) · When the 17th Pursuit arrived in the Philippines, the squadron commander was assigned the task of teaching Filipinos to fly airplanes (00:31:44:00) o The commander would have to leave at seven in the morning and did not return until seven at night and as part of the training, he needed an aircraft and engine mechanic for his airplane; because Bleil had gotten into an altercation with the squadron first sergeant back in the United States, Bleil was the first choice for the mechanic position (00:31:56:00) § Therefore, Bleil became the squadron commander’s personal crew chief and was the only mechanic in the squadron who worked all day; everyone else worked from eight in the morning until noon while Bleil had to work from seven to seven (00:32:24:00) o Being the squadron commander’s personal crew chief would benefit Bleil later on and he did not have plans to go off the airfield anyway, so working all day did not bother him (00:32:46:00) o The rest of the men in the squadron worked from eight in the morning until noon, and then, they had the rest of the day off (00:33:01:00) § The other pilots would only take their airplanes out once a day to practice flying in formation; nevertheless, once the war actually started, some of the pilots were still not “trained” fully (00:33:14:00) · When the squadron first arrived in the Philippines, the only airplanes that were available to them were the P-26s, some of which had been stationed in the Philippines since 1934, when they had left Selfridge Field back in Michigan (00:33:58:00) o Eventually, the squadron received a shipment of P-35As in crates, with instructions in Swedish; the airplanes were originally meant to go to Sweden but President Roosevelt changed their destination to the Philippines (00:34:18:00) § The men had to put each airplane together but no one in the squadron read Swedish; instead, the men used what information they had learned at school (00:34:42:00) § The instruments in the cockpit were also in Swedish and if the pilots could not read Swedish, then they were out of luck; nevertheless, the pilots managed fairly well (00:34:58:00) o Once all the P-35As were put together, the men covered them in canvas because the supply personnel had neglected to send batteries with them; the P-35A carried a large battery used to turn the engine over to start (00:35:17:00) o Later, the squadron received some P-40Bs and P-40Es, which used a 24-cylinder, in-line Allison engine, which was the men’s first introduction to in-line engines, which required ethylene glycol (anti-freeze) to run properly (00:35:44:00) § However, someone said that the airplanes did not need anti-freeze in the �tropics, so the ethylene glycol was not shipped the with airplanes; once the airplanes were all put together, they too were covered with canvas because they could not fly without the ethylene glycol, which acted as a coolant for the airplane’s engine (00:36:08:00) § After about a month and a half where the P-40s just sat on the line, the squadron finally received a shipment of ethylene glycol (00:36:46:00) o Once the squadron received the ethylene glycol and began using the P-40s, the mood around the squadron was to hurry up and teach the new pilots how to fly the new, high-powered airplanes (00:36:59:00) § Overall, there were only four or five experienced pilots in the entire squadron when it arrived in the Philippines and some of them were then moved to other squadrons (00:37:22:00) · While in the Philippines, Bleil and the other men heard news stories about President Roosevelt stopping this or stopping that (00:37:52:00) o From Bleil’s perspective, President Roosevelt knew by January 1941 that war with Japan was inevitable; however, the President, while trying to help the Allies, was faced with a pacifist, isolationist American populace (00:38:12:00) o Roosevelt kept saying he wanted the Japanese to make the first strike and the Japanese kept testing the American government; however, even when the Japanese bombed an American gunboat in 1937, the government did nothing because the American people did not want to get involved (00:39:05:00) o Prior to the official start of the fighting, Bleil and the other men knew there was a Japanese fishing village at the northern end of the Philippines and there was suspicion that the civilians working in the PX were Japanese (00:39:56:00) § However, none of the GIs or commanders seemed to worried about that possibility (00:40:55:00) · The men were warned in June 1941 that the Japanese could strike at any moment, without warning; after that, the squadron was tasked with sending out an early-morning patrol and often, the pilots would encounter unidentified aircraft which could out-fly and outmaneuver the American aircraft (00:41:11:00) o Everyone assumed the unidentified aircraft were Japanese Zero fighters, nobody could ever get close enough to make a positive identification (00:41:49:00) o During the last couple of months leading up to the war, the number of encounters with the unidentified aircraft increased (00:42:01:00) § However, President Roosevelt continued to insist that the Japanese had to make the first strike (00:42:13:00) o Over time, there was a shift in the activities of the squadron; in October, Bleil was taken off the line, given six men (two mechanics, two radiomen, and two armament men) and the group worked from seven at night until seven in the morning taking salvaged parts to make something that would fly (00:44:34:00) § The group was successful in constructing several aircraft out of the spare and left-over parts (00:45:13:00) § At midnight, the men would go to the barracks and prepare their own “mid-day” meal (00:45:44:00) Beginning of the War (00:45:55:00) �· On Dec. 7th, just before the group went to make their meal, a bomb blew them out of the hanger where they were working (00:45:55:00) o The men left the hanger, made and ate their “mid-day” meal, then returned to the hanger and worked to repair damage that had been done by the bomb to surrounding aircraft (00:46:10:00) o About three or four hours after the bomb exploded, the men heard on the radio that the Japanese were bombing Pearl Harbor (00:46:34:00) o Bleil has read accounts of officers stationed on the base claiming to have been sleeping under the wings of the airplanes the night of the Japanese attack and those are flat-out lies (00:47:03:00) § Although the pilots were supposed to be on alert, they were all sleeping in their bunks (00:47:22:00) § Earlier that night, the officers in the squadron had had a party celebrating that they were half-way through their enlistments; originally, Bleil and the men suspected the first bomb was in retaliation for the officers having their party (00:47:31:00) o The first bomb was interesting because before the attack, a squadron based at Iba had radar and were tracking a flight of Japanese planes flying from Manila Bay into the South China Sea (00:48:10:00) § However, as the radar at Iba tracked the larger group of Japanese planes in the bay, a single Japanese bomber came in low and dropped the bomb on Nichols Field (00:48:45:00) · As time passed toward the end of the year, things started going a little faster; the pilots began encountering more unidentified aircraft (00:49:28:00) o On Thanksgiving Day, one of the airplanes was lost and once the men had recovered the wreckage, one of the technical sergeants said the airplane had strange-looking holes in it (00:49:39:00) o Everybody passed off the possibility that the Japanese had shot the airplane down; instead, they where focusing on pilot error (00:50:22:00) · On Dec. 8th, Bleil and the other men in his group were leaving the hangar to go to sleep when they met the squadron commander, who was carrying a piece of paper saying war had not been declared and to keep the squadron’s airplanes on the ground (00:51:23:00) o However, the squadron commander told Bleil to get anything that could fly gassed, armed, and ready to fly; every airplane in the squadron that could fly was in the air by 8:30 (00:51:56:00) o Once the airplanes were in the air, the squadron commander told Bleil to stay on the line and be ready to service any aircraft that needed to be re-fueled or rearmed (00:52:20:00) o Bleil and his group stayed on the line and around eleven o’clock, the airplanes began coming back; one fighter circled the field with a Japanese fighter on his tail and behind the Japanese fighter was another American fighter (00:52:35:00) § The Japanese fighter shot up the first American fighter and the second American fighter shot up the Japanese fighter (00:52:54:00) o After the Japanese fighter was destroyed, a truck drove up with the men’s lunch, two hard-boiled eggs, a sandwich, and cup of coffee (00:53:07:00) § As the men were eating, they saw a bunch of aircraft flying to the east and �although many just assumed the squadron was getting new airplanes, someone pointed out that the aircraft were not American (00:53:24:00) § Just as the men realized the incoming aircraft were Japanese, the aircraft peeled off and strafed the airfield (00:53:44:00) · Most of the men ran into a rice paddy to the east of the airfield, where they endured the Japanese strafing (00:53:51:00) o The Japanese aircraft first strafed the airfield from east to west, circled around, strafed the field again, this time from south to north, and then left; a little while later, Japanese bombers attacked the airfield (00:54:08:00) o When the Japanese attack began, all of the squadron’s aircraft were in the air except for the aircraft that had been shot up (00:54:31:00) · After the initial Japanese attack, all the 17th Pursuit’s airplanes had to land at Clark Field because the runway at Nichols Field was short and it was impossible to land a fullyarmed airplane there (00:54:56:00) o The rest of the 17th Squadron also moved to Clark Field and worked to patch up those airplanes that had been shot by the Japanese (00:55:34:00) o There were not protective revetments at Clark Field because the Filipinos would not allow the Americans to build them (00:55:46:00) o As the pilots would return to Clark Field, they would share what information they had with the ground crews (00:56:29:00) § The most devastating news that the men received was that no one could find General McArthur; although historians claim McArthur was suffering from psychological amnesia, Bleil and the other men simply attributed his absence to cowardice (00:56:36:00) § Nevertheless, without McArthur, the men were just sitting around, waiting for their next orders (00:57:07:00) o After their initial attack on the 8th, the Japanese strafed Clark Field every day, usually after noon (00:57:18:00) o Although there were B-17 bombers stationed at Clark Field that could have bombed the island of Formosa, where the Japanese were staging the attacks, which would have ended the war quickly, the bombers did not have permission to take off (00:57:41:00) § Instead, the bombers sat lined up on the ground and were shot-up during the Japanese strafing runs (00:57:57:00) · Bleil and the other ground crew stayed at Clark Field repairing shot-up airplanes until Christmas Eve (00:58:07:00) o Prior to leaving Clark, the men heard all kinds of rumors about where they would be sent and they were eventually sent to the province of Bataan (00:58:33:00) o Gen. McArthur disagreed with the war plan that the military had laid out, codenamed “Orange 3” and instead insisted on defeating the Japanese forces at the beaches (00:58:42:00) § However, there are 14,000 miles of beaches in the Philippines and based on the American troop strengths on the islands at the time, they could average about three or four per mile (00:59:09:00) · Apart from the American forces, the only reliable Filipino forces were the scouts, who were very good (00:59:33:00) �§ Along with the American ground forces, mostly part of the 31st Infantry Division, there was also the 17th Pursuit, the 20th Pursuit, the 21st Pursuit, and the 34th Pursuit, as well as several bomber groups: the 19th, 27th, 28th, amongst others (00:59:45:00) · With the 31st Infantry, there was also the 192nd and the 194th Tank Battalions and the 803rd Engineer Battalion; nevertheless, there were not a lot of “traditional” infantry fighting men (01:00:45:00) · The only anti-aircraft weapons available to the men were .50caliber machine guns at Nichols Field (01:00:37:00) o To get to Bataan, Bleil and the other men boarded a small, inner-island transport boat (01:01:09:00) § Before moving to Bataan, there had been rumors that the squadron would be pulled back to either Australia or Hawaii (01:01:18:00) o All the time, Gen. McArthur maintained that stopping the Japanese on the beaches was the best strategy; however, the Americans ended up losing most of their food and ammunition once the Japanese attacked and pushed them back (01:01:37:00) § Therefore, by the time the 17th Pursuit had retreated to Bataan on Christmas, McArthur reverted back to the original war plan (01:02:09:00) · Once on Bataan, the men found out that nothing had been prepared; the engineers were busy plowing out a rice paddy to make room for aircraft to land (01:02:19:00) o Meanwhile, McArthur had retreated to Malinta Tunnel, earning himself the nickname “Dugout Doug” from the soldiers stationed on Bataan (01:02:35:00) § To get back at the soldiers who gave him the nickname, on Christmas Eve 1948, McArthur exonerated all the Japanese personnel charged with war crimes and sentenced from thirty years to life in prison (01:03:07:00) o Once on Bataan, Bleil worked as a crew chief, first while the squadron was stationed at Pilar Field then when the squadron moved to Cabcaben Field; Bleil stayed as a crew chief until January 18th (01:03:51:00) § The men had been bombed on the 16th, after which McArthur promised that thousands of men and ships were on their way to help in the Philippines but would have to fight their way through the Japanese before retreating to Australia (01:04:14:00) § After the bombing on the 16th, the airstrip at Cabcaben was not operational, so the airplanes were sent to Bataan Field (01:05:03:00) o After the airplanes were moved to Bataan Field, the 17th Pursuit was moved again and the 21st Pursuit moved into their old position; all the mechanics were made to join previously-formed platoon (01:05:21:00) § On January 9th, the 17th Pursuit meet in a park and the men were divided into three platoons, which were then given different beaches to defend; Bleil himself was assigned to 1st Platoon (01:05:50:00) · Part of the 803rd Engineers were also assigned to the beaches along with forces from the other pursuit squadrons (01:06:51:00) · For the most part, the men on the beaches guarded the trails leading away from the beach (01:07:09:00) o On January 26th, the men were sent to attack a party of Japanese soldiers that had landed further down the beach (01:07:19:00) �§ The men arrived on January 27th; however, the night before, they had been stopped by an enemy machine gun nest, which managed to kill one of the officers in the unit (01:07:51:00) · The men destroyed the machine gun with some hand grenades before moving on to the beach, where they came under fire from Japanese forces (01:08:30:00) · The men would have been pinned down except that other they managed to crawl across a dry river gulch to take the high ground; once they had the high ground, it took the men five days to clear out the Japanese forces (01:08:50:00) § After clearing out the Japanese forces on the beach, the men were ordered to move north to rejoin the remainder of the squadron (01:09:15:00) o Once the men rejoined the 17th, the squadron moved behind the 34th Pursuit, arriving on the February 1st, where they proceeded to get into a large firefight with Japanese forces who were arriving (01:09:21:00) § At the time, there were between forty-five and fifty men in the 17th Pursuit and about a hundred men in the 34th Pursuit, along with a dozen Filipino scouts (01:09:45:00) § Nevertheless, the combined force managed to kill all the Japanese soldiers who were landing on the beach (01:10:01:00) · However, according to what was reported to the news, it was only the Filipino scouts who fought off the Japanese (01:10:12:00) o While fighting as infantry, the men in Bleil’s platoon used M1903 Springfield rifles and corroded ammunition that did not fire properly (01:10:25:00) § One of the men was assigned to operation an air-cooled, .30-caliber Lewis machine gun, which was probably the best gun the men had (01:10:34:00) § The other two platoons used .50-caliber machine guns that men had taken off crashed aircraft and mounted on jury-rigged tripods (01:10:46:00) § Most of the men in the platoons had hunted before, including Bleil, so using guns was not something entirely foreign to them (01:12:07:00) o At one point, the men were advancing to take a road; however, thick under- and over-growth made it impossible to even see the man next to him (01:12:35:00) § Eventually, the men began yelling back and forth to establish where everyone was located; the men never even thought that the yelling would give away their position to the Japanese (01:13:24:00) · Over time, the squadron fought in a series of battles that the men would come label “the Battle of the Points”, beginning with Aglaloma Bay from January 7th until February 1st, Quinauan Point on February 2nd and Anyasan on February 10th and 11th (01:10:08:00) o The fighting at Anyasan ended up being the last battle that the men were involved in (01:15:06:00) § During the fighting, the men managed to capture some Japanese officers who claimed that although there would not be any fighting in March, by April 1st, all the American forces would be annihilated (01:15:14:00) · The officer claimed the Japanese forces were receiving reenforcements from soldiers who had fought in Singapore (01:15:26:00) �o On February 23rd, the men were moved from a beach on the west coast of Bataan to a beach on the south coast of the peninsula, which ended up being rather steep and not a good place for the Japanese to attempt a landing (01:15:42:00) · By the time the American surrender finally came, Bleil had lost about forty-five to fifty pounds, like most everyone else in the squadron (01:16:18:00) o The men were living on wormy rice and any food they could scrounge from the jungle; as well, the men did not have any medicine except for powdered quinine, which they had to take every morning before breakfast (01:16:28:00) § The men debated having to suffer taking the quinine to eat the wormy soup or just forgoing everything and not eat, which a lot of the men did; however, the officers yelled at the soldiers who chose the latter for not taking their daily dosage of quinine (01:17:15:00) · Many of the old-time officers in the squadron flew south with the B-17 bombers as the airplanes retreated with the top generals in the Philippines; some of the pilots stayed but others chose to fly out (01:17:39:00) o The pilots who did retreat promised to return with airplanes for the squadron; however, although the airplanes were put together in Australia, they were never flown back to the Philippines (01:18:29:00) § The men who remained on Bataan asked the pilots after the war why they never returned and the pilots claimed the McArthur would not allow them to return (01:18:58:00) Bataan Death March / P.O.W.(01:19:12:00) · When the surrender of the remaining American forces in the Philippines was accepted by the Japanese, most of Bleil’s unit surrendered at Mariveles Field and soon after, on April 10th, they began the infamous Bataan Death March (01:19:12:00) o The Japanese gathered all the Americans on April 9th, did not feed them, began the March on April 10th and Bleil did not receive any food, water or rest until April 15th; at the end of the march, the Japanese gave each of the Americans a ball of rice to eat and crammed between one-hundred and one-hundred-and-fifty men into a small boxcar (01:19:31:00) § While squeezed into the boxcar, the short men ended up dying from a lack of air (01:20:24:00) o Looking back, Bleil cannot remember what kept him going for the five days without food, water, or rest (01:20:41:00) o The Japanese guards during the march were very brutal to the men; the guards had been trained to kill their enemies, spit in their faces, kick them in their bodies, and just do not do anything favorable for them (01:20:58:00) o Once the men were out of the boxcar, the Japanese stabbed anyone who had fainted or had died with a bayonet or samurai sword (01:21:46:00) · After getting off the train, Bleil and the other men walked ten or fifteen miles to the first death camp at O’Donnell, where men were dying at an average rate of between twohundred and two-hundred-and-fifty a day (01:22:04:00) o The men stayed at O’Donnell for a month and the entire time, it was very depressing because their friends were dying, the men had ulcers, maggots were all over everything and the situation throughout the entire camp was not conducive �for being able to survive (01:22:31:00) o Bleil eventually left O’Donnell with a group of three-hundred men to work as truck drivers and mechanics (01:22:53:00) § After they had moved, the men who did not already have malaria contracted it (01:23:28:00) § The men were tasked with building a bridge over a river and constructing ten miles of road, down to Tayabas Bay, which they did in (01:23:35:00) § In sixty-four days, the number of men who could walk went from threehundred down to five; everyone else was either dead or too sick to even stand up properly (01:23:53:00) · At one point after the war, a man claimed to have worked on the bridge when Bleil knew that he had not; when Bleil confronted the man, all the man said was “who cares?” (01:24:09:00) o After working on the road detail, Bleil was in the infirmary to combat an infectious disease, dysentery, he had contracted (01:24:42:00) § At that point, Bleil acknowledged the possibility that he was going to die in the hospital and he turned to God for salvation (01:25:09:00) · While working during the night at Nichols field, Bleil’s only entertainment was going to the movies and on Sundays, going to movies meant going to Church because it was impossible to find a seat after Church was over (01:25:28:00) · It was while going to Church to wait for the movie that Bleil heard about salvation from a fire and brimstone chaplain (01:25:47:00) · After Bleil made the connection with God, his life became better and when he returned home, the only thing he returned home with was a bitterness towards the government (01:26:23:00) § Apart from dysentery, Bleil also suffered from Beriberi, a disease that almost all the soldiers suffered with and resulted from a deficiency on Vitamin B-1 (01:26:42:00) · With Beriberi, one of the first things the men lost was their distal nervous system; the first phase of the disease was a “dry stage” and was very painful, to the point that even a flying buzzing around a soldier’s feet was irritating (01:26:51:00) · Eventually, the men swelled up with edema fluid, which ended up stopping some of the pain; however, the fluid would keep building up, until the men looked like bloated zombies (01:27:21:00) o Bleil himself happened to contract cerebral Beriberi, which caused his head to swell up (01:27:28:00) · The third phase of the disease was high-output failure, where the men’s hearts were dilated and working very hard to pump enough blood through the body (01:27:51:00) · The disease itself was quite treatable with thiamine but none of the men received any; Bleil himself was in the third phase three different times (01:28:28:00) o The Japanese were not interested in the any of the prisoners surviving, so they made no effort to treat the disease; �however, they needed men to work in a local mill, so they ended up giving out some medicine, which came in the product used to clean their rice (01:28:56:00) o Some of the men refused to take the medicine and ended up dying (01:29:56:00) o Some of the Japanese guards were Christians and Bleil was surprised to learn that there were roughly four-hundred-thousand Japanese Christians before the war started (01:30:17:00) § Some of the Christians guards would actually punish the guards who mistreated the prisoners (01:30:23:00) § The guard for Bleil’s section never hit any of the prisoners or mistreated any of them (01:30:46:00) · The guard claimed to dislike the Japanese military as much, if not more so, than the prisoners did because he felt like he had been given a raw deal in the military (01:31:03:00) o Bleil and the other prisoners did a lot of sabotage, figuring they would have only one chance and the guards were going to kill them anyway (01:31:46:00) § Every opportunity the men had to steal food or damage property, they took the chance (01:32:01:00) § The men had more opportunities the perform sabotage once they had left the Philippines for Japan because once they were in Japan, the men received different jobs in industry, such as working at a steel foundry, which Bleil did for two years (01:32:28:00) · Bleil left the Philippines on September 18th, 1943, aboard the Taga Maru, which was a Japanese transport ship (01:32:59:00) o After leaving the Philippines, the ship sailed to Formosa, where it stayed for a week, during which the ship endured an American bombing raid, before leaving the island in the middle of a tropical storm (01:33:11:00) o From Formosa to Japan, a lot of the supplies on the deck of the ship were washed overboard and the ship finally arrived in Moji, Japan on October 6th (01:33:42:00) § Fifty-seven of the men aboard the ship did not survive the voyage from the Philippines to Japan and number of the ones who did survive died after the ship had arrived (01:34:04:00) § Bleil estimates that there were probably close to fifteen hundred men around the ship when it left the Philippines (01:34:22:00) o Once in Japan, some of the men disembarked at Moji and the other continued on to China to work in mines (01:34:41:00) o After he arrived in Japan, Bleil ended up working in a steel foundry in the village of Hirohata, where he helped unload coal and ore ships (01:34:59:00) § At one point, Bleil and the other men in his detail tried to sink one of the ships but they could not turn a valve (01:35:19:00) § At one point, the Japanese assigned Bleil the job of “skimming” slag out of the furnace; however, the Japanese neglected to give Bleil any protective eyewear, so he would just close his eyes and rake out the steel in the furnace (01:35:42:00) · However, the Japanese did not like the Bleil was doing it this way �because he was losing some of the material, so they re-assigned him to another job, lining ladles with firebrick (01:35:58:00) § With the ladles, Bleil and the other men managed to mess that up as well, so that the Japanese could not turn the ladles off and had to drop all the molten steel on the floor (01:36:12:00) · Each ladle was about eight to ten feet tall and five feet in diameter that the Japanese would pick up with a crane and fill with a special kind of steel that had cooked for thirteen hours and was used for making gears (01:36:26:00) · All the gears were laid out on the floor in sand molds and the Japanese would take the ladle from one mold to another to fill each one up, one at a time (01:36:47:00) o However, once Bleil and the men sabotaged the ladles, the Japanese could only pour a single mold (01:37:01:00) · The Japanese would get very angry and often punish the Korean prisoners also working in the foundry; the Japanese did not know the American prisoners were sabotaging the ladles (01:37:26:00) o Bleil and the other soldiers did not receive anything from the Red Cross and only received mail from home after sending home pre-written cards saying that they were fine and the Japanese were treating them well (01:38:12:00) § Before Bleil deployed, his mother moved and he did not know her new address, so whenever he sent one the of the cards home, he would address it as “general delivery”; however, instead of being delivered, the card would be put into a circular file (01:38:31:00) · Bleil’s mother eventually got a letter from the military saying that Bleil was “Missing in Action, Presumed Dead”; she did not actually receive a letter from Bleil until late 1944 (01:39:04:00) § A missionary eventually told Bleil what was happening with his mail and suggest that if Bleil ever received another chance to send a card, he should send the card to someone else who he knew the address of (01:39:25:00) · Bleil did receive another set of cards in late 1943 and this time, he sent them to his sister (01:39:47:00) · Eventually, Bleil and some of the other more prominent saboteurs were taken out of the foundry and sent to Toyama to work in an aluminum factory carrying materials in baskets on their backs (01:40:02:00) o After the men were in Toyama for a short while, they were re-assigned to unload ships filled with beans, corn, cement, etc. (01:40:56:00) § Working on the ships was productive for the men because they were able to steal some of the beans and corn; on the other hand, the men hated working on the cement ships because they would breath in the cement particles and sometimes, when they would cough to clear their throats, they would cough up blood (01:41:16:00) § The Japanese would supply the men with muslin underpants that tied at the ankles and waist and bell bottom pants, which made it easy for the men to steal the beans and corn; they would tie the bottoms extremely tight and then fill them up with the beans and corn (01:41:57:00) �§ The men went through an inspection every day and the Japanese would always ask if the men had any beans; the men would say they did and would shake a handful of beans in a metal box (01:42:31:00) · The Japanese would dump the beans in the box out and hit the men in the head a couple of times before sending them on their way with their pant legs full of beans and corn (01:42:47:00) § Thanks to the beans and corn supplementing their diets, the men’s health improved dramatically (01:42:57:00) · While in Japan, the Japanese would tell the men all the bad things that were happening to the American forces will the Korean prisoners would tell the men all the bad things that were happening to the Japanese forces (01:43:18:00) o When the men received information from three different areas, they accepted the information as legitimate (01:43:34:00) o Through this system, the men knew what islands were being lost by the Japanese, especially Iwo Jima and Okinawa (01:43:44:00) o Early in his time in Japan, Bleil saw what the men had labeled as “Roosevelt’s Regular Mail”; a little after noon, he looked up and saw a set of four vapor trails high in the sky, indicating American forces were close enough to be flying over Japan (01:44:24:00) § Although American bombing raids happened close to where the men were, the bombers never directly attacked the factory where they were working; the men knew other areas were being bombed because the Korean prisoners told them about the bombings (01:45:13:00) § When the Americans dropped the first atomic bomb, the Korean prisoners were rattled; however, even though the men had no way of knowing what type of bomb was dropped, they were glad it was effective (01:45:30:00) End of the War / Reflections (01:46:22:00) · One morning, the men woke up and all the Japanese guards were gone; nevertheless, the men stayed in the camp for a couple of weeks without any guards (01:46:22:00) o However, there was not much food on the camp and the only time the men received supplies was when a couple of 55 galleon drums were parachuted onto the camp; for the most part, the men continued to eat the soy beans they had stolen from the Japanese (01:46:45:00) § Anyone who managed to get one of the barrels tended to keep its contents for himself; two men ended up killing themselves when the found a barrel full of meat and ate it all (01:47:47:00) o Eventually, an airplane flew over and dropped a series of messages onto the camp that told the men what they were supposed to do, which was to board a train and head to the town of Aomori, where the Navy picked them up (01:48:16:00) o Once out of Japan, the men were eventually transferred from a hospital ship to a destroyer, which then took them into Yokohama, where they were bunked in a steel warehouse and given fresh clothes (01:48:42:00) o The men stayed in the warehouse for a few days before they were taken to the Atsugi Air Field and flown to Okinawa, where they stayed for about a week before returning to the Philippines (01:49:09:00) �· · · · o The men stayed in the Philippines for a month, where they were forced to sign a gag order; when some of the men refused to sign, the military threatened to not send them home (01:49:33:00) After the men returned to the United States, they were sent to a hospital in Florida and went through a physical, which determined the men were sterile, had extremely enlarged hearts, and would not live to see forty (01:50:39:00) o Bleil was eventually sent back to Fort Sheridan, Illinois in June and was discharged from there (01:51:14:00) o When Bleil was discharged, he was broke and although he tried to borrow some money from the Red Cross, they refused, saying that if they did that, everyone would try to get money from them (01:51:27:00) § Instead, Bleil ended up needing hitch-hike in order to get back home to Michigan (01:51:55:00) o As he was being discharged, Bleil asked how to get out of Fort Sheridan to get to the highway to get home; however, the man misinterpreted the question and only told Bleil how to get out of the building (01:52:09:00) Once they were out of the service, Bleil and the other POW survivors tried to sue the Japanese but President Truman said they could not sue the Japanese because they were partners with the United States (01:52:31:00) o Every other nation who had prisoners taken by the Japanese did sue and were handsomely paid (01:53:14:00) Although someone suggested Bleil did not have the ability to make it through college and suggested he take up a trade, he graduated from Michigan State University as an Organic Chemist and from the University of Michigan Medical School as a Physician (01:54:07:00) The title of the book Bleil wrote about his experiences is Consigned to Death Six Times, which references six different times Bleil was “ordered” to die (01:55:04:00) o The first time was when President Roosevelt marked the forces in the Philippines as a lost cause ten days after the war (01:55:09:00) o The second time was when Gen. McArthur, after the men had been surviving on half-rations, said “when the food runs out, mount an offensive and kill as many Japanese as you can before they kill you” (01:55:35:00) o The third time was when Gen. McArthur, just before leaving the Philippines, said, “Don’t give up the islands until the last man is dead” (01:55:04:00) § Based on those orders, if anyone had survived after that, they would have been guilty of insubordination (01:56:19:00) o The fourth time was when the men captured the Japanese officer at the Battle of Anyasan and the officer said that all the American forces would be annihilated without question (01:56:30:00) o The fifth time was when the Americans surrendered and a Japanese colonel said they would all be annihilated eventually; the men would either be started, beaten, or worked to death and if they did not obey every order of the guards on the march, the guards had the right to kill them (01:56:53:00) o The sixth and final time was when an order was sent out from Tokyo ordering that all POWs be killed and the different methods that could be used, either killing the �POWs individually or as a group; the orders were very clear that once the POWs were dead, there was not to be any trace of them (01:57:47:00) § However, those orders had to be abandoned when Army Rangers launched a successful raid against the POW camp at Cabanatuan and were able to uncover information about the POWs (01:58:18:00) § The original order went out in late 1941 and was intercepted by American forces, which caused the Ranger raid to occur (01:58:41:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bleil, Eugene (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bleil, Eugene Description An account of the resource Eugene Bleil was born in 1920 and grew up mostly on farms outside of the city. He was accepted to Eastern Michigan University, but dropped out after a semester, traveled with his brother looking for work, and wound up enlisting in the Army Air Corps. The brothers trained as Selfridge Field in Michigan and passed the tests for pilot training, but failed the physical, and trained as mechanics at Scott Field in Illinois. Assigned to the 17th Pursuit Squadron, Bleil shipped out to the Philippines in 1940. Based at Nichols Field outside of Manila, the squadron trained there until the war with Japan began, and then transferred first to Clark Field, and then to Bataan. When the aircraft were withdrawn, the crews became provisional infantry and fought off Japanese landing attempts along the coast until the surrender in April. Bleil survived the Bataan Death March and three years in labor camps in the Philippines before being sent to Japan to work in foundries. Bleil and some of the other prisoners developed a talent for sabotage, but were never caught by the Japanese. After the war, Bleil was told by Army doctors that he would not live very long or be able to father children. Even so, he went back to college, became a doctor, raised a family and is still around to tell his story. He has also published a memoir, Condemned to Death Six Times. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-03-13 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BleilE1350V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/caf6b3723c3c905b8b350bcaa471ee5d.mp4 71aaff5e4b6c6dd840db6eb21effe32b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f064a5ceb456a3c7a2472eb7ff244552.pdf 83be3d32490bff8a85ce13b96fc962c1 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Arthur Bleecher (50:34) (00:15) Background Information • • • • • • • • • Arthur was born in Council Bluffs, Iowa on January 23, 1926 He moved to New York City with his mom and sister and his mom started working at a dry cleaners Later she started her own business and made it through the depression He went to high school at a parochial school and studied Latin, physics, chemistry, and math Arthur liked horses and wanted to be a veterinarian After graduation he worked on farms in Rhode Island, Vermont, and New York He then went to school at Cortland State University [NY] for agriculture In the summer of 1944 he worked in a plant in Detroit, MI He visited the draft board at the end of summer and joined the Merchant Marine (5:30) Training • • • • • Arthur was first sent to Sheepshead Bay in New York for 8 weeks, then to Hoffman Island in NY Harbor for radio training Passed Morse Code test after 22 weeks, in June of 1945 While learning Morse Code, Arthur never actually learned how to type He could go through the code at 22 words a minute After code school he was sent to Baltimore, Maryland (8:15) Tanker across the Atlantic Sea and the Indian Ocean • • • • • He boarded a T-2 Tanker and crossed the Atlantic They stopped at Port Said in Egypt, crossed the Indian Ocean, made their way through the Persian Gulf, and then stayed in Iran for 2 weeks After Iran they headed towards The Philippines Their goal was to fuel the invasion on Japan They stopped at a port in NE Australia to refuel on the way to The Philippines (12:30) Philippines • • They first stopped in Manila and then sailed to Subic Bay War was already over in the Pacific �• • Arthur was in Sri Lanka when the bombs dropped in Japan He then went back to the US and stayed in New Orleans for a while (20:30) Europe • • • • Arthur was based in Europe 3 different times They loaded the ship up with barrels of asphalt from Mexico and brought them to Europe Sharks followed their ship and fed off their garbage They were caught in a storm once but not as strong as a hurricane (24:50) Discharged September, 1946 • • • • After being discharged, Arthur looked for a job on Wall Street and worked with stocks He then worked for a British company called Arnold Bread Arthur sold his car and went to a city college in New York In October of 1950 he was drafted into the Army (27:00) Training • • • • • Arthur was sent to Fort Devens, Massachusetts for basic training He applied to be a Captain and was accepted to leadership school in Fort Dix, New Jersey He then went to Officer Candidate School (OCS) in Oklahoma for 22 months of very rough training Half of the men had washed out by the end of the training He began studying anti-aircraft, working with machine guns, 40mm, 90mm, and 20mm (29:40) Shipped to Korea September, 1952 • • • • • • Arthur went through 3 weeks of training before being sent to Pusan He worked with the 25th US Infantry Division, as part of the 21st AAA Automatic Weapons Battalion He enjoyed Japanese beer and sake They used machine guns on top of half-tracks to harass enemy planes The Anti Aircraft Battalion did not have much to do on front lines He worked with anti-tank guns and 90mms on front lines for about three months (41:00) After Service • • • • Arthur left North Korea in September for Seoul, South Korea He later went to law school at Stetson University near St. Petersburg He worked with the IRS and became Chief Attorney Then began working as attorney for Social Security �• Arthur has recently retired and often travels to Europe � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bleecher, Arthur (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bleecher, Arthur Description An account of the resource Arthur Bleecher enlisted in the Merchant Marine in 1944 and trained as a radio officer. He sailed to Asia and Europe in 1945 and 1946 and then returned to civilian life, only to be drafted for the Korean War. This time he served in the army, attended Officer Candidate School and trained as an anti-aircraft officer. He shipped out to Korea in 1952 and spent several months there on active duty. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Merchant marine--United States World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-05-22 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BleecherA Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/86e4a003322ad0fe39b0966bf2a5bfcb.mp4 3040b6f3fa110a11e41e14c09f728491 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8c4fd9d1f8d67fdf5408d4cd599edf2b.pdf 628715d0d6c0cbf0fec36a615c00a8a3 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam War Henry Bledsoe Length of interview (0:32:46) Background: (0:00:15)  Born 1951, in Illinois, in a farming community  Father was a sharecropper (0:11:00)  Achieved a high school diploma, along with some college (0:11:23)  Currently lives in Caledonia, Michigan  Served in the Air Force, at the rank of Staff Sergeant (0:00:54) Enlistment: (0:01:02)  Originally stationed at the Air Force base in San Antonio, Texas (0:01:04)  Went to technical school at the Sheppard Air Force Base in Wichita Falls, Texas (0:01:11)  After technical school went to the Air Force Base in Big Spring, Texas (0:01:17)  Was a medic in the Air Force (0:01:57)  Would do four twelve hour days and then be off for three days  Enlisted, and received a draft notice two weeks after entering basic training (0:13:41)  Remembers being scared when entering the war (0:14:55)  Medics played recreational sports when off duty (0:20:28)  Slept on a cot, not very comfortable (0:22:38) Duties: (0:02:23)  Worked mostly emergency room, x-ray laboratory  Night shift did blood cultures (0:02:47) o Explains what a blood culture consists of  Medics were deployed based on the current activity in each zone (0:04:05)  Bledsoe’s tour of duty was short—only a few months (0:04:43)  Hundreds or thousands a day were injured  During the war, his job was to ensure that the injured could be stabilized enough to survive the trip to a hospital Enlistment Part Two: (0:05:07)  Never worried about the United States not achieving victory during the war  Bledsoe’s brother, Alvin was also in the Air Force at that time, working with statistics o Did not speak to his family often during the war o A few phone calls a month, and the occasional letter  Talks about the differences between living at home and living on base  “Nothing can prepare you for mass casualties” (0:06:55)  “War is another form of societal cancer” (0:07:48)  Mental effects are often in the form of trying to deprogram yourself after the war (0:08:33)  Bledsoe did not choose to be a medic �o When you join the military you are given a set of aptitude tests (0:09:04) o At the time of the Vietnam war, you were placed where they wanted you  Bledsoe felt stress at war, but explains that it was a different kind of stress than the ground troops felt (0:09:31)  Explains the process of Triage (0:10:05) o Take care of those who have the greatest potential to live first After the War: (0:11:36)  Bledsoe and his wife own a financial services and insurance agency  Bledsoe was in complete support of the war, his family wanted the war resolved  Service ended March 14, 1974 (0:22:58)  After returning home, worked in the intensive care unit, then sales  Stayed in contact with a few of his war friends, but not many (0:23:57)  His views never changed after the war o The war needed the intent to win  Joined a veteran’s organization for a limited time  Bledsoe reflects on the war’s effects on him and his family (0:25:13) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bledsoe, Henry (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bledsoe, Henry Description An account of the resource Henry Bledsoe was born in 1951, in an Illinois farming community. He served in the Vietnam War in the Air Force as a medic. He spent several months in Vietnam, where he tested blood cultures and worked with a unit whose job it was to keep patients stable prior to shipment to hospitals. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Wilson, Jessica (Interviewer) Bledsoe, Dori (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-05-11 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BledsoeH Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c2b4cf83ec871413a93f14c015bf6c2b.mp4 add1518da8492f7d9e879c357f10894a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6d1a6e7686c1afa2f65817f0f315a203.pdf 003cc894bfc1940bef019c5e7a6465c0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Roy Eugene Blanchard (00:23:54) * Roy’s story is told by Clark Blanchard, Roy Blanchard’s son (0:00) • Filmed WWI memorabilia including medals, certificates, flags, pictures, uniform, and journal (2:46) Background • Roy was born in New Hampshire in 1899 • Had an older sister and a younger brother • Family moved to Grand Rapids • Roy’s father was a bigamist; had his family in Grand Rapids and another family in a suburb outside of Grand Rapids o In those days, would have to choose which family to stay with o Roy’s father chose to stay with the other family • Roy dropped out of 8th grade to support the family • Worked on a farm one summer • Friend said if joined Michigan National Guard Roy would get paid just for attending meetings • Roy was underage and underweight o Don’t know how he got around the underage part (about 15 years old when joined) but to get around the underweight part, he would eat a lot of bananas and drink a lot of water (5:20) The Mexican border • Just prior to WWI, issues on the Mexican border with gangs. Pancho Villa would take his gangs across the border and raid small Texas towns • US government activated Guard units to stop the raids • Roy caught some of Pancho Villa’s men and took one of their pistols as a souvenir (6:38) WWI and injuries • Michigan National Guard, since was already active in Texas, was one of the first units shipped out to France • Roy was machine gunned in the shoulder • Kept a diary of life in the war and Clark still has it o In the diary, Roy described the day he got hit • Another injury occurred when Roy was in the line of fire during combat; dove to the ground into a puddle that was contaminated with mustard gas; got the mustard gas in one eye and became blind in one eye. o Never applied or received veteran’s compensation (8:50) More details about shoulder injury • Trench warfare �• • Told to go over the top and attack the Germans There was barbed wire between the two sides and a German machine gun nest in front • When soldiers began advancing, mowed down by German machine gun o Describes the scene in his diary; talks about those who got hit o Since a National Guard unit, all the men were from Grand Rapids (10:00) Training • Infantry unit • Specialized in hand grenades • Expert marksman, even when blind in one eye (11:05) Stories of the front • Roy never went on at any length about war • Clark (Roy’s son) and Roy would be doing something together and a sound or smell would trigger a memory; it would always be very brief and then he would change the subject • Mustard gas o When the enemy would use mustard gas, would first send over a shell of vomiting gas, which would make the soldiers nauseous; then they would send over a shell of mustard gas; it was the natural reaction to yank mask off when vomiting; so soldiers would take mask off to vomit and then accidentally inhale the mustard gas and die. Roy saw a soldier get hit with by the shrapnel from the mustard gas shell. The shrapnel broke the soldier’ gas mask. A chaplain who witnessed this pulled off his own mask and gave it to the soldier. The chaplain quickly climbed a nearby tree so as to be above the mustard gas. • Barbed wire o To keep enemy soldiers awake all night, soldiers from both sides would put cans on the barbed wire with pieces of bread and crackers inside; trench rats would rattle the cans all night trying to get the food out. This kept the enemy anxious because the clanging sounded like someone advancing through the barbed wire. (14:40) Teaching his son • When Clark was a young kid, his dad, Roy, taught him how to shoot like he was in the military (15:47) Trench life • Awful • Disease, especially in feet, because always standing in the mud • If wounded, it was your job to get to an aid station; there were hardly any medics around (17:10) Convoy story • On way over to France at the start of the war, was on a troop ship in convoy • Convoy partially abandoned troop ship because warning of torpedoes in area o The convoy returned to troop ship because warning was a false alarm �• When Roy was sent back to the United States, Roy was put on the same ship had come over on; what had originally been a troop ship was converted into a hospital ship (18:28) Auxiliary Police • When WWII broke out, there was a lack of police officers in the towns because a majority of police-age men were drafted and sent over seas • Auxiliary police units were set up in the towns o Older men with military discipline did this, especially veterans • When there would be floods, auxiliary police would perform the rescues • One time, police got people out of flood situation, but when started to leave, their boat got stuck on the person’s mailbox (19:52) After WWII • Roy remained an auxiliary policeman • Prior to and during WWII, many professional baseball players were drafted; to take their place, Grand Rapids had a women’s baseball team o Roy would police the baseball games and take his son, Clark, with him. Clark’s job was to collect foul balls and sell peanuts and popcorn (21:30) Reflection • Roy was always very patriotic and loyal • He was a very good father • The military had a strong impact on his life (22:38) • More pictures; looks to be group shots of the Michigan National Guard on the Mexican border and in Europe during WWI � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Blanchard, Roy (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Blanchard, Roy Description An account of the resource Roy Eugene Blanchard was a WWI veteran who served in the Michigan National Guard – 126th Infantry Regiment on the Mexican border and in Europe. Roy's son, Clark, is conducting this interview in memory of his father. At 15 years old, Roy managed to join the Michigan National Guard despite the fact he was underage. Soon after joining, Roy was sent to the Mexican border to stop the raiding of Texas towns by Mexican gangs. While in Mexico, WWI broke out and Roy's division was immediately shipped over to France. In this interview, Clark shares many detailed stories about his father's time on the front, including unique stories of mustard gas and barbed wire. Clark also discusses the time his father saw a fellow solider get hit by shrapnel and also the time Roy was blinded by mustard gas. Because Roy kept diaries of his time on the front, the stories Clark tells are very clear and truly give one a sense of the front lines. During WWII, Roy was an auxiliary policeman for Grand Rapids who policed many of the women's baseball games. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bloom, Jeff (Interviewer) Ferris, Jay (Interviewer) Forest Hills Eastern High School (Ada, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Michigan. National Guard. Infantry, 126th World War, 1914-1918--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-02 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BlanchardR Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a8a2449cff4068ea7789db01dffeff10.mp4 abc78a23cecab8176759540eb22b1479 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/26c0b64bf996250c6c8863e91e5abf3d.pdf 6b1fef1e8401eeed390436e5f412d0ba PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Bob Blackwell (58:17) I am Charlie Collins. My wife Carol and I spend many hours a month volunteering at the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans. We do this for the Masonic Service Association. Do to the cooperation of the Grand Rapids Community Meeting Center and the Michigan Military History Museum, we have been recording stories of people whose lives have been affected by WWII. We then take them to the Michigan Military History Museum and also send them to the Library of Congress. The following is a result of our efforts. What is your full name? Robert Blackwell. I was born in Buffalo, New York, and my father was with the Veteran’s Administration and we moved around quite a bit. So I went from there to Northampton, MA, and then about 1938, he was transferred to Prairie Point, MD. Then I went to high school in a little town north of there. The high school has been washed away by flood since then. It was called Port Deposit. It is on the Susquehanna River. Then about that time my father was selected to go to southern Ohio to be the regional representative for the GI bill. So he would approve and inspect anyone who wanted to teach veterans and get reimbursement from the government, he would have to do the inspection. Anyhow that is where I had graduated from high school in Maryland. I went back there and I wasn’t 18 yet. I was there for probably a month and I work at different things. I did mechanical drawings and so on like that. You graduated from high school in what year? 1943. So you would have been born in 1925 then? Yeah. That makes me 79 now. What was your reaction when you first heard about Pearl Harbor? (2:33) Well…I was sitting in the side yard at the house in Maryland and I heard about it and I thought, I didn’t even know where Pearl Harbor was…of course….like a lot of people did. The lady from next door whose son had gone in for one year…they had drafted him for a year. So she was very afraid that her son was going to be involved with that. He never was, but anyhow, I was very shocked. I took everything what President Roosevelt said very seriously which most of the country did. Now in your school did you participate in things like “scrap metal drives? �No, because there wasn’t any war yet. Oh….I am getting a little head of myself…… (laughing…that’s okay.) I was just graduated the same year as the war started. . So were you drafted into the Army? No, I was in Dayton, OH, at the time with my parents and I saw the recruiting for the air force [Army Air Corps} and of course Wright Patterson field is right there in Dayton, and so I went out and made inquiry, and the fellow said, “well, here is an application.” He said, “Why don’t you apply for the Air Force before they draft you?” So I applied when I was 17 and then as soon as I was 18, they started giving me tests for the mental and the physicals and then they told me I passed and I was going to be a cadet. This is a pilot cadet for flight training? Yes. I went from there to …..well they helped me out….you know….they told me where I was going to go and so on like that. Then in October, they told me to report to Ft. Benjamin Harrison in Indianapolis and from there they sent me to Jefferson Barracks, MO, where I had basic training. What year is this? 1943 And Jefferson Barracks is near St. Louis? Yeah…Yeah….just south of St. Louis. How long was your basic training in those days? (5:39) Six (6) weeks. Then they took you and you became a cadet and then they gave you some more basic training beside that. Even though you were going into the Air Force, you went through regular Army basic training just like a infantryman would? Right. Most of the training officers were infantry people. So when you got through with basic training what happened after that? After basic training, they gave me a ten (10) day leave and I went home and then they had to report to Las Vegas, NV, where I went to gunnery school out there. By the time basic training was over, they told us all that we were going to go to the infantry except �some of us were going to go into air crew training. Either be a navigator, bombardier, or gunner. When did they cancel your orders for flight training? Just after the six (6) weeks….or just before the six (6) weeks …probably four (4) or five (5) weeks. What was the reason for the change of orders? (6:48) Well..they had recruited enough and had enough in training. They didn’t have any more training facilities. That had it pretty well planned out though. Tell us what Las Vegas was like…everybody thinks of the big city that it is now of 700,000 people, the casinos and stuff….it wasn’t like that in 1943 was it? No….it was more like Muskegon. Oh…not a very big city….maybe 30,000 or 40,000 people. Wasn’t even that big, I don’t think. We only got into town once or twice. Were you stationed at what is now Nellis Air Force Base? I can’t think was the name of the base was…..weren’t there several bases out there? There might have been in those days….Nellus is the big one right now…just north of Las Vegas. (8:06) Yeah…they had gunnery school. They had ball turret gunners, top gunners…you know…simulators…..and the actual equipment was there, but you just shot it with a camera. Then to teach you that there was a certain amount of trajectory in shooting from a moving plan to another moving plane. So they put us in the back of pick up trucks with shot guns and then drove us past a skeet range. They would launch the skeets that we were suppose to shoot them with a shotgun from the pick up truck while riding along. Now have you ever done any hunting prior to all this? No…..I had a .22 but that was it. Okay so this was quite a change for you…..like you say….leading the target. Just learning the basics. I didn’t have any idea how a machine gun worked. �One of the things they taught you of course was how to strip down a guns, prepare them and maintain them. Yeah…. A .50 caliber gun is a big piece of machinery. Yeah…it was really quite simple. How long was this school again….six (6) weeks? It was about ten (10) weeks. From there were you assigned to a flight crew then? (9:52) No…I was assigned to a …..I went to Lincoln, Nebraska and they assigned us to crews. They made up crews there….like the pilots that had finished training, and they were available. The co-pilots and bombardiers…they were all in a big pool there and they would draw names and make crews out of them. Okay…so you were just assigned a crew by lottery? Uh…huh. Ok…I have heard other stories…you know…this is in the British Air Force. A bunch of them just got together and they went around and met each other and kind of….”Would you like to join our crew…” sort of thing. Not that I was aware of it. How man men were in your crew …..? I think there were ten…….no….eight (8) people. What was your specific duties? (10:55) At that time when they assigned us from Lincoln, NE, we went for training…we pick up a plane there and went for training to Ardmore, OK. There was a air base there….Gene Autry….I don’t know if you remember him, a cowboy…..he had donated most of his ranch because it was nice level ground to the Air Force….well, he leased it out to them for training and they built training facilities there. That is where they assigned me to the ball turret gunner. Ahhh. Could you tell us about the “ball turret gunner” for people that are not familiar with the design of a B17. �Well…it is really….it is kind of like sitting in the fetal position…..with your feet up which controlled the aiming of the gun. Oh…..so your feet operated pedals? Yeah…like that….that would operate part of the thing and then the other part ..the contraption over your head which two (2) little handles, you would turn it “right” to turn the ball right and left…..down…up… What did your foot pedals control….does the control like the ……… That controlled the “aiming device”. See the gun site was an optical configuration that had projected on it various images….lines…and it had lines like this…..which you could control by turning the ball turret up or down….. Oh….I see. (13:10) Then they would have the horizontal which you could control this way also. But as far as what was in that parameter, you had two (2) lines which you would frame the particular object that you are shooting at so it would frame it in the gun sight and then when you got it in the gun sight you would press the trigger on the top of the gun….on top of the handles and the two (2) .50 caliber machine guns which were right there by your shoulder would start shooting. Okay….I didn’t know they worked that way. It sounds like it requires good….exceptional hand and eye coordination because you are working with your hands and feet and trying to get oriented and every thing….it requires a great degree of manual dexterity. Yeah. How did you come to be assigned to the ball turret? Actually I was the lightest one. At that time I weighed 140 lbs. I was tall but that didn’t seem to bother anybody. Not only that…I was the youngest and they intimidated me….(laughing) I was kind of wondering about that because you are…..in terms of height…about 5’8” or so and …? At that time I was probably 5’ 11”. That is awful tall for a ball turret gunner. Usually they have men probably about 5’4” or 5’ 5”. Yeah…..Yeah….. �Because it isn’t a very big space to get in to. I said that we were in a fetal position. As you get in…you would have a curvature to the back and then there was a little platform that you sat on. The back of the ball turret gun was armor plated. The seat was armor plated. Under the seat were the valves that controlled your oxygen, and also the relief tube was under there too. So did is seem kind of scary? You’re riding in the bottom of the airplane and you look down and there is something like 20,000 feet underneath you. (15:38) You know I have never been very afraid of heights until now (laughing)….the other day I was on top of …….oh…yeah…I had just came back from Saipan…anyhow there was a hugh mountain there and there is a huge cliff there. There is also a look out at the top of the mountain, and I looked down and ……I have never been bothered with heights before…but….that wow…….Now is that because I am older (laughing) or I am not smarter. Yeah…it could be that when you are young you’re kind of …..you do things that when you look back when you get older you wouldn’t do…….you think “I must have been nuts” (laughing) I really think I thought I was indestructible at the time. So when you were in Oklahoma your crew kind of went through training and kind of melded into a team that everyone knew what their job was? (16:52) Yeah….It was mostly for the air crew…the pilots and co-pilots, and bombardiers and navigators. Because we would fly from Oklahoma City to ..lets say to….Galveston, Texas, and they would take the bomb sights and pretend they were going to bomb the harbor or do something like that, but the navigator had to get us there correctly and everything like that. The rest of us just kind of sat. How long would you be in a ball turret on a mission like that….about four (4) hours or so? Probably five (5) or six (6) hours. Were you pretty stiff when you got out of that? I don’t recall it was. Well, after you got done with your training in Oklahoma, what happened then? �(17:50) They sent us to, I think it was, Kearney, Nebraska, and from Kearney, Nebraska, they gave us a new plane. We flew from there to Maine and then to Goose Bay, Labrador, and then Goose Bay, Labrador to Iceland, then Iceland down to Scotland. Alrighty….I guess that is how they carried most of the aircraft over there. (18:29) And to tell you how naive I was. When I was in Iceland, it was in July now, ….July 1944, I was there, and the crew people said, “Bob, why don’t you take the first shift to guard the plane out here on the runway?” The plane had to be guarded. So he says, “You do that until it gets dark.” (laughing)….it does not get dark in Iceland (laughing) and about 4 o’clock in the morning…I couldn’t figure out …..why the sun started to come up again (laughing). They pulled a fast one on you (laughing) Oh they did. They were in town…they were in the officer’s mess having a few drinks….and the men were just having a good time. I bet they didn’t pull that one on you a second time. No….no. (19:41) Then from there I went to Scotland and then they sent us for further training….well mostly the crew went for more training. So what unit were you assigned to ultimately? The 487th Bomb Group…336 Bomb Squadron. They were stationed at Lavenham. What part of England is that then? It is East Anglia….is that how you pronounce it? It was north of Norwich and south of Burry St. Edmunds….that area. That whole area of course was all airfields if you ever look at the maps. In fact of the people, the military historians and collectors, I think there is five (5) of us that were within ten miles of each other. That is amazing when you’re on a mission, how you find your own base. Yeah…(laughing) that is why they’re the navigators……. So you weren’t too far from London then. You could catch a train to London when you had off. �(21:18) Yeah…when you could get a pass. My first trip to London was really an “eye opener”. I got there during one of the last German air raids, and there was all kinds of destruction around. We’ll talk more about London in a little while then. This takes you to July 1944. You’re assigned to your first operation unit. What was your first mission like….your first combat mission? I don’t really remember, but I remember…..see D-day had happened in June. We were there in July ….so they had advanced up to the beach about to St. Lo toward Cherbourg and they were going for the Netherlands. My first mission, I believe, was to bomb the hell out of St. Lo because the Army just couldn’t get through there. The Germans had it so fortified. I know this must have been the mission where they sent the heavy bombers over to carpet bomb the area to enable the army to break out of the hedgerows. Yep….. Did you see any enemy opposition when you were on that mission? Well…there was “flack” of course. Oh…anti-aircraft fire. Yeah. Did that get anywhere close to your aircraft or were you flying above it? No…….it was right around us. What else did you do while flying this mission…do you remember? Well…we had several missions there and then we went to Germany, the Ruhr and the Ruhr Valley which is heavily “flacked”. Okay…that is what I was getting at. (23:29) Then the crossing from England to Germany, we went a crossed to Holland which the Zuider Zee had huge “flak”…almost a curtain. So they started shooting at you as soon as you got over there then. Yeah…as soon as we got across. �Can you tell us what the preparation was for a mission. When would your day start? Okay….they would probably wake you up about 3 a.m.., or 4 a.m. So in the middle of the night you’re starting to get ready….. (23:58) Yeah….and then you go have breakfast, and then you got down and sometimes you would go get your equipment and take it to the plane and then come back, but most of the time you would go to the briefing room where they had this huge map projection on the wall of Europe and then they would have different color yarns going from our base to where we would be going. So you could see where you were going. Whether you were going to go to the Ruhr Valley to get to this point or whether you were going to go to this place to get to Berlin or whether you were going to go some place else. Anyhow….they had this behind a big curtain. When they would draw that curtain back, all the crews were sitting around waiting to find out where they were going and then there would be this huge “AAAAAAAHHHHH!....not that again….you know….”hey!! this is a milk run”…..(laughing) There was no inkling before pulled the curtain back for you? No rumors running around like you were going to be going to Berlin? Nope…..Well, you know they had pretty good security. Were there certain targets like you ever dreaded to go to…or were kind of considered easier targets? No…. Or was all of Germany pretty much a “tough” target? Berlin was hard. Of course they had protected it very well. Did you fly any missions to Berlin? (25:54) Two(2). I went to Peenemunde where the rockets were being tested. Oh yes…in the Baltic…off the Baltic coast. Yeah….that was very well protected. But the idea was to try to bomb their preparations so they couldn’t get going on their operations. But by then they had already developed a rocket that was going to London. Oh yeah…this was a V-2….the developed the first ballistic missile. �Then of course they had the “buzz” bomb had been developed there too. I didn’t know it until later that they were also working on an atomic bomb, and we knew that. Oh…so that is one of the reasons why we started our own program then….we had to beat the Germans before they got theirs. (26:52) Yeah….yeah…. After you have had your briefing, you went out to your aircraft then? Yeah…yeah….we would get our flight jackets, electric underwear……. Electric underwear???? (27:18) Yeah…I had to have it because I was a ball turret gunner because I couldn’t take real bulky fleece lined…… Oh yeah…you see the old leather jackets with fleece lining…I guess there were trousers and boots like that also. Yeah…mine was just a jumpsuit with an electric suit over the top of it. I can’t remember….I think it was like electric underwear, and then you put the jumpsuit on over the top of that, and you could put a light jacket on. You have people today think it is like today’s airlines…comfortable and 72 degrees and it wasn’t like that….flying in a B-17. No it wasn’t (laughing) What was it 50 or 60 degrees below zero up there? Yeah..about that. Of course the radio room would be heated. There was a certain amount of heat blowing in to the waist position. I don’t think there was anything into the “tail gun” position, but there was for the bombardier and navigator, engineer and the crew up front….that was pretty comfortable. So how many aircraft would a group send out on a mission? You know I was trying to think of that the other day. I think…probably forty (40)….35 or 40. Then you would form up with other groups to go over your targets. You might have three or four hundred aircraft then? (29:00) Right. �Or we would all go over as a big group for protection and then break off into like an airfield and the other one would go to the railroad yard. Oh I see. At this stage of the war, did you have fighter escorts? Well…just as I got there they started having fighter escorts. The B17s took very heavy losses earlier in the war because they didn’t have fighter escorts and with the heavy armament they weren’t able to defend themselves completely. Yeah…but they did a helluva good job without it before. Yeah…they called them flying fortresses because all the machine-guns you had….two (2) in your turret and how many others were on it? Two waist gunners…ahhhhh ….top turret, bottom turret…the navigator had one on each side and the bombardier had the one. So you had ten (10) or twelve (12) machines guns….that is a lot of fire power. See now just to show the importance of fighter escorts. The time when I was shot down…… You were shot down? (30:31) Yeah….how that happened was the Germans could detect that we had missed our fighter escorts. They knew where the fighter escorts were going to take off. I mean their intelligence was amazing. They knew where they were going to take off, and then they could track that on their radar and find out if they were on time or late or whatever. They found out they were 20 minutes late, and we were early ….so they just immediately, within ten minutes, they had their planes up and in formation and were attacking us. In that short gap…. And they had used a different technique then they had before….they used what they called “a company front attack” which would be like spraying the whole formation with machine gun fire. So you would get a line of German fighters…maybe 25 or ….. (31:46) Yeah…..would be like eight (8) or ten (10) fighters down here, another eight (8) or ten (10) up here, and then the course of formation was pretty tight so they would shoot at the whole thing rather than individual planes. �And of course you were coming in head on at each other…… Oh….no ….they came up in the tail which is the soft spot. Oh from behind….okay…I see……because you just have the “tail” gunner covering the rear and the ball turret……. Yeah and then the ball turret gunner and the top turret gunner was getting some too. Tell us about this mission that you were shot down on. Which mission was it? What was your target that day. (32:35) Well, my pilot decided that he wanted to become a “lead” crew. Now there are different formations and they have different “lead” crew with the one that was ahead of the formation, and then they took turns leading the whole group. In this particular one…they had been a “lead” crew for two (2) missions. Because it was a “lead” crew, they replaced the ball turret with a radar turret so they could read the formation underneath. They replaced the “tail” gunner with a co-pilot so he could keep track of the planes behind him, and he could radio to the different pilots….”come on…close it up there…” and he knew all the names of the pilots…..he would call “loosen it up fellows”… like that. Now our captain, my pilot that I went over with became a crew leader and the day that we were shot down, they had an air force general, and I cannot think of his name, and he was riding in the co-pilot’s seat. The co-pilot was of course in the back. I was in a substitute crew that I had never flown with before. So these were all new men. Yeah…they were new. They were people out of the hospital, people off sick leave or people who had just got there….it was kind of a pool that they were taking them out of. They would go into the pool and make up a crew. Now they don’t normally do that. They want you to train together first. But because this was the Battle of the Bulge at that time, December 24, and it was the first good clear day that they had for “sight” bombing, they wanted a maximum effort. In other words, every plane that was in the 8th Air Force that was flyable, they wanted in the air. So you are talking thousands of B17s……. (35:19) Yeah…and our captain was the head of the whole shebang with the general. Oh I see. And we were flying one of the wings in back of him…that is where I was. Now the tail gunner and I had been good friends and of course he was kicked off because the co-pilot took his place in the tail and I was kicked off because of the radar ball so we ended up in the same substitute crew. So I did know somebody in that crew. They were nice guys. �But this was the first time you had ever flown with any of these guys? Yeah…. (36:14) Anyhow, the Germans came toward us and I noticed that they shot down two (2) or three (3) bombers….and we still didn’t have our fighter escort. Then they came around and made a tight turn and came in again from the back in a “company” formation and doing this and I noticed that our tail gunner, I think, shot down one of their German planes or two (2). Some of them…….you know there were quite a few German planes that were lost….but I don’t know…not nearly in proportion to what we lost. Because they said that when this mission was over…that night at the base, there were, out of all the planes in the base, there were only twelve (12) that came back and landed at that field…….twelve (12) planes…… A lot of them were damaged…… Yeah….a lot of them were damaged and landed at other fields….were shot down….. You see the old movies like Twelve O’clock High….you hear the planes coming and see the men up in the tower count and how many there are…… What sort of damage did your plane take in this attack? (37:43) I don’t remember. I remember that I was down there and I could look out and see that they had hit one of the right engines…I can’t tell you which one. Then I heard from the pilot that it looked like we were going to go down. He said to prepare to “bail out”. I immediately tilted the ball turret up so I could get into the plane, and then I grabbed my parachute. I had my jacket on. I had my parachute harness over top of that. Then you took the parachute which was a front pack. It too was ring side which you hooked to the front of the harness that you war on shoulder and neck. Then I walked over to the tail…or to the door and the radio operator was there, and he would…..I said, “Are you going out?” ….indicating what are you going to do……he yelled, “I can’t go out!!!....”I can’t do it!” Did you have to give him a kick in the rear or push him out? I didn’t have nerve enough to do it. I wish I had now because he never went. He never got out of the plane? Nope…..nope……either that or he landed or did it too late. How many…..was the plane gyrating? No….it was just kind of ….long…..losing altitude to the left. Did all your crew get out? �(34:54) No…the tail gunner….who I thought was trapped back there, and ….I don’t know….but I think the engineer…….no the engineer didn’t make it …but I think maybe one of the bombardiers or the navigator may have made it. Did your waist gunners get out? One of them did…….yeah…….well…because we were a substitute crew, we only had one waist gunner. We didn’t have two. Oh I see. You know one guy would shoot out a side and then go shoot out of the other side. Wasn’t a full ten man crew then……so roughly half of the crew got out. What did it feel like after you got out of the airplane…..you were floating through mid air and the battle going on around you and everything…… (yeah…laughing) of course ….or because I had an electric suit on, I had electric shoes on and my regular GI shoes were beside my parachute, and they were tied together by their laces, and I put those on the harness, and then as I went out, the force of the parachute opening, the shoe just broke off and went down (laughing)….and I was up there 20 minutes because we were at 30 thousand feet….it takes a while to come down. Yeah…it sure does. I didn’t know it took that long. Everything seemed to be so far away. I could see other people in parachutes and I could see them below me. I didn’t see very many above me, but just the ones below me. And I could see the plane disappearing…. Now were you over German territory then? (42:10) Well…if you remember the Battle of the Bulge…..it made a bulge down towards France. We were over part of the bulge that was half in Belgium and half that the Germans held…. So you were in German held territory? Yeah……anyhow I landed on the River that divided the two. I landed in the River which is about like the Rogue River only a little faster….. Only a little colder…. Yeah…I guess…it was December 24…it was very cold (laughing)…… �Quite a Christmas present wasn’t it? (42:58) So I landed in that and as I was coming down, I couldn’t figure out what was going on……the Germans were shooting at me from the ground…(laughing) So anyhow I landed in the river and the Germans came around and started shooting at me, but they got cut off by…….but the force of the water as I came down, I realized that I was going to have to get out of the harness, and I mistakenly unsnapped the one at the weights instead of the ones at the crotch. Now the British had a parachute harness that you just unscrewed that and hit is like that and they would all release….but we didn’t have those…….so anyhow…I ended up as I landed in the water, the parachute filled with water and pulled it away from me so that I was floating down the river feet first being dragged along. Then as I was dragged along, the Germans would take a shot at me, then pretty soon I didn’t hear anything but just the water. Then I was dragged…half underwater and half up. I would keep coming up long enough to get my breath, and I was a pretty good swimmer anyhow. And the parachute was still attached? (44:47) Yeah…then it would inflate….then it would get on a snag or something, then I would catch up to it and start to get out…then it would fill up again. So I got over to a bank and there was a sapling there…about 1 inch….I mean four inches around, and I couldn’t get…I had my hands on it and my legs around it. What I did was to put my legs around it like that….and then the parachute inflated again and pulled me off and broke my ankle. It pulled you off…….. Yeah…(laughing) broke my ankle. Ahhhhh. Geeeeessss (laughing) thank goodness there was some Belgian people downstream who could see my situation and they waded out and grabbed the front of my parachute and dragged it into shore, and they pulled me in after it. So some Belgian civilians brought you ashore then. (45:59) Yeah…then about then, I think, a American jeep came along……I don’t know…I can’t remember how……anyhow I ended up in a small roadside hotel run by the………you know it was behind the lines. So they filled the bath tub up with hot water because my clothes were frozen on me. Oh yeah…in the middle of December…. �Yeah…it was really weird walking along with frozen clothes…..rather chafing also (laughing) (laughing….yeah…) Yeah…they treated me good. They notified the Americans, and they took me to a MASH unit that was just setting up. All the personnel were there, but they were in operation yet. That was Christmas Eve. It as in a church….a Catholic church and they had taken all the pews…….of course a lot of the churches didn’t have pews anyhow…..and they had me go over there, and they had cots in their for the wounded, and I was their first patient. They put me in dry clothes. Wrapped my ankle, and then they all took off for church at midnight, (laughing) and left me……and I remember it was an awful lonesome feeling seeing that “one” votive light on the alter, and thinking, “my God!...you really lucked out”….(laughing) So you were in the Army hospital for …..? (48:11) Oh yeah…and then they didn’t have room for me, and they didn’t have anything set up for a bigger hospital so they turned me over to the RAF, and I went to Brussels and ended up in a RAF hospital in Brussels. What was it like being with the British in the British hospital? Oh…wonderful. For one thing, they treat their NCOs with so much respect. Oh yeah? So you were a Sergeant .... Yeah, I was a Sergeant then so I was put in a private room with another Sergeant. He was from the Royal Air Force, and he had been a courier and he had had a motorcycle accident. (laughing/laughing) …..so he was there, but he was quite a bit older than I was and he had traveled to Brussels before and he had friends there. So quite often, he would take off in the afternoon and go visit with his friends and I would just be in the hospital reading…..so I liked that. So it sounds like you got good care then. (49:30) Yeah…then I got a walking cast on my foot, and that Sergeant fixed me up with one of his uniforms so…(laughing) I was in the RAF for four (4) or five (5) days…I can’t remember…and then they flew me over to Oxford, England to an Army hospital. �How long were you in the hospital for a total before you returned back to duty? Let’s see…..that was December. It was spring. So you were out of the war then for about three (3) or four (4) months. Yeah…I was out of the war for three (3) or four (4) months. I still came back and flew two (2) or three (3) missions after that. Okay…then you get to VE Day. Did you fly any missions….I knew they flew some missions over Holland….dropping food to people and stuff. (50:00) Nope. I did fly one mission….they wanted to photograph all the damage they caused in the Ruhr Valley and they wanted pictures of that. You tell me now…how much time did they have and would they have bothered to look up how much their bomb strikes meant after the war was over. Oh……yeah…there has been quite a controversy how effective the bombing was…I know that. I read stories that the British would bomb at night and of course everything is blacked out and you know…even for a big city like Berlin you might miss. When you photograph it in the daytime…you don’t know whether you did it or the British did it……anyhow……..then that is when I came back to the base and I discovered that Sam wasn’t killed. Sam was ………the tail gunner? Yeah…he was from Youngstown, OH. (51:43) So we had a few drinks together. I wish it had just been a few …(laughing) Oh you had a little to many (laughing)…quite a hangover the next day? Yeah…. So that British beer is quite a bit stronger, I hear. And he was older…..he mother and father were Czechoslovakian but from Youngstown and he was American born, and his brothers were too. He had two (2) brothers in the Air Force and both of them were plane crew members. His brother was shot down over Czechoslovakia. He was flying out of Italy on a B24s, and he was shot down over Czechoslovakia and as far as I know, he was something like 25 miles from where his folks were born…but he was dead. Oh…he was killed…… �Yeah…he was killed. His other brother, I think, was in the South Pacific. Not like “Private Ryan”. They should have taken him out. They should never had let him fly. Yeah…there was a lot of families that had brothers serving in various theatres. (53:06) And maybe…I am not sure, but there is a lot of patriotic families and he wouldn’t have wanted any special treatment. Yeah…it was different. The mood of the country was that everyone was going to do whatever they can to defeat the enemy powers. So being shot down and breaking your ankle and so on, you were entitled to a “Purple Heart”. (53:34) Yeah…yeah. Did you earn any other decorations of war….like Air Medal….or….”Distinguished Flying Cross”.. I got an Air Mdtal….and “Good Conduct” medal (laughing)…. Yeah…like you said, three (3) years of undiscovered crimes…..(laughing) You missed ship but they didn’t catch you…..you know….like when you would go to London. Tell us about the stories when you went to London when you had a pass. Well…that wasn’t a wild town but it was of course a big city with lots of stuff going on. Oh…yeah…wonderful. They loved the “Yanks”. They use to complain a lot that Americans were over paid, over sexed and over here….(laughing) So you would get like and overnight pass or would you get like a whole weekend or like a week’s leave? Sometimes we would get a 48 hour pass. And they didn’t…after the war was over….they didn’t keep real close track of you whether you late coming back if you were like 12 hours late…that was it….nothing more than 12 hours. So if you were late coming back they would give you like extra duty? No…they wouldn’t even notice it. Not unless you told them about it. �Alright. So you were mustered out of the service in…….. (55:06) Oh…I came home on the Queen Mary. Oh really! Yeah…. It was a wonderful experience coming in. Our ship laid off of New York. It got in about midnight and stayed over until about 7 o’clock in the morning and then it came in the East River, pass the Statue of Liberty and a beautiful sunny day. I was at the rail and there were thousands of people there. All the fireboats were there with their big streams and people ….tug boats tooting their horns. It was a beautiful greeting, I’ll tell ya. Quite a home coming then. Yes and being able to see the Statue of Liberty, I like that. It was really outstanding. Can you tell us a little bit about your life after the war? What sort of work did you do after the war and tell us a little bit about your family. (56:57) Well, I took the GI bill and went back to school…..well I didn’t go back to school I enrolled …went to Miami University for three (3) years. Then I worked as an insurance adjuster. How did you end up in Grand Rapids? (56:57) I transferred here. I was hired in Des Moines, IA My wife was from Des Moines …or from Southwest Iowa and I went from Des Moines, they transferred me to Lincoln, NE. At Lincoln, NE, the manager was transferred and there was two (2) of us with the same amount of seniority, and they asked us if we would decide between us which one of us wanted to stay. Well, of course I was from back east, I wanted to go Midwest, at least. So I ended up in Lansing, MI. Is your wife still alive? No…she died fifteen (15) years ago. Oh…so you have been a widower for quite a while. Yeah….I remarried. �Do you have any children? I have six (6) children; five daughters and one son. I have 15 grandchildren. (58:17) You think of the men who didn’t survive the war and all the families that were never started, all the kids that were never born and stuff. You had quite an exciting life, Bob, and very long and healthy life. I started to say that I was in Saipan and I really learned about the battle of Saipan. So if you happened to have someone that was at the Battle of Saipan, let me know, I will bring the maps that he can read and relate to. Somebody in the Marine Corps probably or somebody like that. There were some Army units there too. Bob, I thank you for sharing your experiences with us. Thanks for your service during the war. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Blackwell, Robert (Interview transcript and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Blackwell, Robert Description An account of the resource Bob Blackwell served in the US Army Air Corps during World War II. He served as a ball turret gunner on a B-17 bomber with the 8th Air Force in Europe. His account covers his training, experiences in England, and flying missions over northern Europe. During the Battle of the Bulge, his plane was shot down, and he had a narrow escape from the Germans when he landed in a river near the front lines and was rescued by Belgian civilians. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Vanderlinde, Dean M. (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Air Force World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-10-28 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BlackwellB Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a690c8a84e97f93fa6de90a0a1077a84.m4v 2ffc7cd86a42055a8eaf1a3a8af441b3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/30bf68fe53cc5674378dfa518c957c09.pdf 057f6c755297eb48b429c75e7cc44d43 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II War Interviewee name: James Burke, Sr. Length of Interview: (00:34:26) (00:20) Background Information        James was born in Pennsylvania on April 29, 1918 His father was a carpenter and his mother was a homemaker There were 11 children in his family; 9 boys and 2 girls James went to a small one room school house until he was in 5th grade He then quit school to work and help support his family James began working in a coal mine when he was 15 years old, but did not like the job and quit a year later He then moved to Michigan to live with his grandparents and began working in a plaster mill (5:15) Army Enlistment  James had decided to join the Army after Pearl Harbor was attacked and enlisted in early 1942  He was sent to Fort Meade in Maryland and lived in old WWI vintage barracks  They got up early every day at the sound of a bugle and began calisthenics  After completing boot camp James had time on leave to visit family  James then went through leadership training and became a staff sergeant (9:45) France  After training James was sent to France in late 1944  They landed in Le Havre where he fought his first battle  James was in France after D-Day and fought in the Battle of the Bulge  There were snipers all over the place in France and he was shot at and missed by many Germans  James was able to meet a few German civilians and the majority of them were nice (15:45) Japan  After spending time in France James had enough points to be sent home, but instead was sent to Japan  He was sent on a troop ship to the mainland where he served in the Army of Occupation �   James and others began building bases and taking over many duties for the Japanese Army Some cities in Japan were completely devastated from the bombs and smelled very bad Altogether James spent 3 years [probably 2 in US and 1 in Europe] in Europe and 3 in Japan (19:15) Back to the US  James was sent back to the US in 1948 on a troop ship and landed in San Francisco  Shortly after arriving in the US James got married and has now been married for almost 60 years  He took a steam engine train back to Michigan  James later moved back to Pennsylvania and again worked on a coal mine; he did not like the job and moved back to Michigan 1 year later  James is now living in the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Burke, James Sr. (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Burke, James Description An account of the resource James Burke, Sr. was born in Pennsylvania on April 29, 1918. James was the second oldest of a very large family of 11 children. He went to school through 5th grade and then began working to help his parents support the family. James enlisted in the Army in early 1942 and went through boot camp in Maryland. After boot camp James went through leadership school and became a staff sergeant. James went to France in 1944 and into Germany in 1945 and then served in Japan for another 3 years with his service not completely ending until 1948. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-12-08 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BurkeJ Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e5bafba73abc14b26a5c45788adc88d7.mp4 4fe3bf6446167ea8aff3665ad0b6d5ad https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/badc8ae4db41c67c22b2d6aab0b6278d.pdf 974aebe167d34bec588a7e8d5e0d5abe PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Jerry Bruinekool (24:05) (00:15) Background Information • Jerry was born on December 15, 1938 • He was in the Navy for three years and then in the reserve • Jerry was born in Michigan and went to school in Ada • He had several uncles and cousins that served during World War II • Jerry was only three when Pearl Harbor was attacked (01:30) Enlistment in the Navy January 1956 • Jerry felt that his life was going nowhere and needed a change • He chose the Navy because he thought it would have nicer living quarters and better food • He had been living with his parents and joined with a friend of his • Boot camp was rough for him and he did not like his commanding officer • Jerry received many demerits and had to do a lot of extra exercise • They did many push-ups, ran a lot, and got up every day at 6:00 am (04:50) Overseas • Jerry had been stationed at Great Lakes Naval Base in Chicago and then went to Virginia for five months • He was then station in Havana, Cuba and traveled to Puerto Rico and Saint Thomas • He was stationed in the Mediterranean twice and traveled to France, Italy, Portugal, Greece, the Netherlands, Belgium, and visited the Rock of Gibraltar • He had been working in a carpenter shop in Virginia fixing small wooden Navy boats • Jerry never saw any combat (07:40) Memorable Experiences • Jerry enjoyed experiencing the cultural differences at all the foreign ports he visited and seeing how other lived in different countries • There were many storms in the Caribbean during the hurricane season that he experienced • He met his wife during his second year in the service and wrote her many letters • To pass time many of the men played pool, basketball, cards, and went swimming (13:25) Friendships • Jerry got along with all the other men he worked with and most of his commanding officers • He had joined with a friend, but his friend had been held back during basic training for medical reasons �• Jerry is no longer in contact with any of the men he met in the Navy (16:00) Life after the Navy • Being discharged was a long process with all the medical examinations and paperwork • Jerry took some time off afterwards to relax • Once he began looking, it only took Jerry about a week to find a job, but it was hard for him to keep a job and he moved around a lot • He now thinks that he is lucky that he never had to fight in any war • He does not go to any reunions because they are too costly and has enough friends where he lives • Jerry believes that the Navy made him a better person and gave him some direction in life � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bruinekool, Jerry (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bruinekool, Jerry Description An account of the resource Jerry Bruinekool was born in Michigan on December 15, 1938. Jerry enlisted in the Navy in January of 1956 because he felt that his life needed some direction. While in the Navy, Jerry traveled to Cuba, Puerto Rico, Saint Thomas, France, Italy, Portugal, and Greece. He enjoyed going to all the different foreign ports and seeing how other people lived. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DeVries, Alex (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-06-04 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BruinekoolJ Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a9199a9bace35fa10c01446af607d434.mp4 c26ba0edd3d03af7762d370353edba3a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b849133647b41551c2c096ebbbe1babe.pdf 0b8e50048355df6f465bbb06974de33c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam War Dick Brown 2:46:39 Introduction (00:51)            Dick was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in December 1946 and lived in Rockford. He graduated from Rockford High School in 1965. At that point in history, people were being drafted left and right. Dick didn‟t want to go to college and he decided to take a year off and „find himself‟. However, Uncle Sam found him first and he received his draft notice in January 1966. Growing up, his father worked in a factory, but the family lived on a farm north of Rockford. He grew up in a small town and had a small town attitude about life. Prior to being drafted, he did not pay much attention to the news or about what was going on in Vietnam. (02:54) At the dinner table, he remembers talks about the war and his father told his sister to “pay attention, your brother may have to go.” When he got his draft notice, he went and took his physical. They told him that he would most likely be drawn up in April. On his way to his sister's house for Sunday dinner, he passed a billboard for the United States Marine Corps, and the next day he went down to the recruiting office and enlisted. (05:01) He enlisted for two years. Marine Corps Boot Camp (06:07)        A couple weeks later, he went to Detroit and met up with other recruits that were all going to boot camp. While there, he was given another physical and had to perform five chin-ups and five push-ups. When Dick got to boot camp, he learned that when the draftees were inducted, they were all lined up and counted off. Every fifth man was sent to the Marine Corps. He went to San Diego for his training. They were flown on a commercial plane to San Diego, and then they were loaded onto busses. Once they got to the Depot, a seemingly seven foot tall Tasmanian devil boarded the bus and started screaming. They proceeded off the bus and stood on the yellow footprints outside. (08:44) They arrived around 7pm and it did not get dark for another hour after they arrived. The men were sent around getting gear, their first haircut and standing in lines. �               When he sat in the barber chair he was warned to tell the barber about any warts or moles on his head or else he would lose them. Dick had no warning about what to expect when he got there. The training was physically tough, but was much tougher mentally. Being screamed at was new to him and took some getting used too as did being swore at and called all sorts of names. (10:48) Later in boot camp, the second or third day, the whole platoon had to sit in a class and they learned what the Drill Instructors could and couldn‟t do to you. After wards, they were marched behind the same building they received the class and Dick was called forward and hit in the Adam‟s apple and choked. They had just done what the recruits were told that they couldn‟t do to them. He also called him every name they weren‟t supposed to call them. (12:12) Halfway through boot camp, Dick was ready to volunteer for Vietnam as long as he didn‟t have to finish boot camp. Dick was told to never volunteer for anything. One day they were all asked if anyone wanted to be a truck driver, Dick said that he did. He was then told to go get a wheel barrow and bring it back. When he did, the DI sat in it and told him to bring him around base. By the time he got through boot camp, he was learning what they wanted him to learn. Physically, the training was not that hard, especially because he played football and was in good shape going in. (14:52) Recruits are not allowed to address themselves as I or me, but must always speak in the third person. „This recruit would like to do this…‟ They had to swing over a pool of water with a rope, and some of the men would be shoved in by the DI before the rope got back to them. Using telephone poles, the platoon had work together to lift them above their heads while lying on their backs. (16:32) They learned about teamwork and how to use it to accomplish their missions. At first, Dick thought the training was just a form of torture, later he learned why they did all those things and that they made sense. Training lasted for eight weeks. Dick thinks that since it was shortened, the DI‟s were extra nasty. (18:28) Secondary School (18:52)       During their sixth week in boot camp, they all took aptitude tests and Dick was chosen to be a truck driver. One of the men sent to the training was from New York City and he had never driven anything before. He was later sent to a different school. (20:26) This training consisted of two weeks of covered tactical driving and a week of auto mechanics. He was at Camp Pendleton for this training. After his truck driving school, he was sent home on a thirty day leave. He went home in late July or early August 1966. When he came home, he was proud of himself. His grandfather fought in World War I, and his father fought in World War II. He was ready to do his part. (22:23) Most of his classmates from high school were in college. �                  When he came back from leave, he went to ITR (Infantry Training Regiment). During this training they had to crawl through a dust pit underneath barbed wire, while machine guns were being fired over their heads, they originally used live ammunition until someone panicked and stood up. After that they began to use blanks. (24:23) They also went through gas training. Each man was given a gas mask and shuffled into a gas house. Behind the gas house were buckets of water that each mask was washed in. A platoon was around 80 men, and about 20 Marines were brought in the gas chamber at one time. Dick was in the second group to go in, and he was not sure what was going on. When he got up there, he picked a good mask and checked it to see if it worked. Once in there, they were told to take their masks off and sing the Marine Corps Hymn. (26:22) They were taught how to cross an artillery field, and when Dick‟s squad was crossing, they discovered that the DI‟s had planted explosives randomly around the field and they played over loudspeakers the whistling sound of an incoming artillery shell. Each man had to take cover or else he was „killed‟ and had to be carried by the rest of the squad. (28:26) Almost through the course, the incoming sound was played and they heard behind them a horrible screaming. One Marine had dove in a crater to avoid the blast and landed right on a rattlesnake. After that, no one wanted to jump in the holes. Dick doesn‟t remember any additional marksmanship training while in ITR. Back in boot camp, Dick shot well because he grew up hunting and shooting. Before his qualifying day, he was shooting expert. Come Friday on qualifying day he only shot marksman. Each Marine was given a shooting badge and the ones that didn‟t qualify were given a badge with a spear on it and were called „spear chuckers‟. (31:04) Four of the five men that got that award were black, and because of political correctness, they could not do that today. They also did a twenty mile march in ITR. For some reason, they always put the big guys in the front. This caused the line behind them to run to catch up. It was over 90 degrees that day. (32:41) After the march, they were trucked back to base. One major difference from boot camp was the instructors did not yell and scream at you. Also, you don‟t call the NCO‟s sir because they are not officers. After boot camp, they are Marines and they are regarded as such. (34:15) For their last exercise, they were given a hill with a flag on top. The hill was surrounded by troops and they were sent around on patrols. Ten guys got to dress up as Viet Cong and they would try to infiltrate as high up the hill as they could and steal the flag. Since Dick was a truck driver, he was on the perimeter but never sent on patrols. One of the Viet Cong was captured and refused to cooperate. A Marine stepped forward and bashed him on the knee with his rifle. He then cooperated. They also never got to the flag. Back at truck driving school, Dick trained on 5 ton short box trucks. In the third week the Marine from New York washed out. �Vietnam (38:11)                 After ITR, Dick was sent to Vietnam. On his last weekend in the states, they had a „junk on the bunk‟ inspection. This is an inspection of all their gear laid out on their beds. Their skivvies (underwear) had to be dyed green. Dick rushed to find a washer and was not able to find a dryer for his freshly dyed skivvies, so he folded them up and put them on his bunk while they were still wet. The inspection officer was a captain and he noticed that they were a darker shade of green than the bunk next to his. He grabbed them and found that they were wet. He told Dick that that was unacceptable and that he was confined to base for the rest of the weekend. He was being sent to Vietnam on Monday. (40:15) Dick and several others were confined to base but their sergeant let them sneak out and Dick went into town and called home before he was shipped out. They took a civilian plane from LAX to Okinawa. A sergeant came up and told them that the wounded in Vietnam needed blood. Dick went right away to donate some blood. (42:25) They had no training in Okinawa; it was just about a two hour layover. From there they flew on a military plane to Chu Lai. On the way over, Dick learned that he was the only truck driver and all the other men were grunts. On the base, trucks came and got the men from the plane and Dick was left all alone. Some time later, another truck pulled up and yelled for anyone with the 7th Motor Transport. He jumped in and they took off. (44:25) When he got there, he was issued an M-14 rifle, canteens, pistol belt and magazines. At one time they were all given new M-16‟s to test fire on a rifle range made from a rice patty. The M-16 was like a .22, it would shoot real fast but then jam. Dick chose to keep his M-14, because it did not jam. After being issued his gear, he was assigned to A Company. (46:46) He was told that they operated during the day, because during the day they owned the roads, but at night they belonged to Charlie (Viet Cong). The next day, he was given a „run‟ down south. He got up at 5:30am and had to eat and perform his pre-inspection checks. They assigned a supply sergeant to go with him and he ran from the docks to the base running gear. In spots they could only drive 5 mph and in some spots they could go 10 mph. (49:21) One problem with the roads was that the dykes on the rice patties were only 3-4 feet wider than the truck; they also had sharp turns and steep hills that slowed down travel. After making six to seven runs, Dick wasn‟t sure if he could make another one. He was told that he needed to make one more. He made the final run and he was running late when he noticed a jeep coming up the narrow road. It was carrying the officer in charge of the base and either Dick had to back up a half mile or the jeep did. They pulled up to Dick and he was told to pull over so they could get by. He pulled over and let them by and threw it in reverse and the wheels just spun. (53:04) When he was trying to get his truck out, he heard rifle fire in the rice paddy near him. He jumped out of his truck with his rifle, flak jacket and helmet about ten minutes before dark. He knew that once it got dark he was dead. He jumped back in his truck and �           prayed that he not be killed. He thought he was dead, and he then crawled under his truck and planned to kill them before they killed him. (56:03) Suddenly, while lying under his truck, he heard a noise behind his truck and he turned to fire at a pair of legs when he heard “There‟s nobody here corporal.” Dick jumped out and was yelling “I‟m Here, I‟m Here!” They brought the camp truck and had a squad of Marines with them. The VC saw them coming and also saw how many there was and just disappeared. (58:32) Dick eventually made it back to base, an hour and a half after dark. This was his second day in Vietnam. When he came up to the base, he was challenged by the guard and asked the password. He didn‟t even know his name at that point and they pulled him out of the truck and had someone from his unit come down to identify him before they let him in. (1:00:43) After he got in to base, he had to conduct his post op inspections. He was then called to the captain‟s office and asked why he didn‟t just stay at the docks until morning and make the last run. He said that he didn‟t know he had that option. (1:02:02) The next morning, another driver attempted to use his truck but he found that the air tanks had not been drained and the vehicle had a flat tire. Dick was called into the captain‟s office and was yelled at some more. Instead of explaining how things worked in country, the captain just called him names, screamed at him and told him to get out of his office. (1:04:58) As a punishment, he was told to sit on a machine gun for the convoys coming in and out. At the end of the month, he had a guard duty that lasted for thirty days. After that he was assigned perimeter duty. He was then made a machine gunner. Dick met a man from Muskegon, named Mad Dog. (1:07:36) On a convoy, Dick was sitting on the machine gun and Mad Dog was driving. At the village, all the people came running to the truck and Dick started pointing the gun at the crowd. When some kids came up to the truck, Mad Dog started barking and howling and scared the people away. Mad Dog later explained that when he first got to Vietnam he was on a convoy and a group of kids came up to his vehicle. One of the kids in the crowd had a hand grenade with the pin pulled and the spoon taped down. He dropped it in the gas tank and everybody just drifted away. Moments later the grenade blew up the truck. (1:09:20) Dick never found out if the story was true or not, but it opened his eyes. Mad Dog took Dick under his wing and taught him what to do in country. When Mad Dog rotated home, Dick lost his mentor. After that, Dick requested a transfer, which was denied. (1:11:34) The unit moved to Da Nang, and then Dick requested another transfer. This was more of a trade, but Dick was sent to B Company. B Company (1:12:22)   In his new unit, Dick was told that A Company was a real spit and polish company, but B Company was different. His lieutenant told him he didn‟t care how he did his job, just as long as he did it and he didn‟t get him in trouble. (1:13:38) He was also told that B Company operates more in the field running supplies to troops and bringing troops to the helicopters. �                   Dick fit in perfect there, and he met some great guys. Three guys were sent once to pick up alcohol for the officers club. One of the pallets was broken open and a couple of cases of rum found its way into the truck. (1:15:39) When it was discovered that two cases were missing, they checked the trucks. One major chased after them in a jeep and tried to pull them over. Once they got back to base, they tore all three trucks apart that were there. They never found any booze; the other Marines took it and hid it before it was found. (1:17:36) The major tried to hold a summary court marshal on Dick for the incident and had him confined to base. Since no evidence was found, they let him go. (1:19:21) In September, intelligence in Phu Bai gathered that a division of NVA were west of Hue, but it was late in the season and a monsoon was about to begin, so they could not launch an operation. For five days straight, their base got about three mortars every night, at different times. They never knew where they were coming from. One night, one landed not too far from their bunker about twenty yards away. (1:21:28) The next night, one landed in a bunker with clerks, which caused Dick to have nightmares about it later. After that, they started filling sand bags to cover the bunkers. During his convoy operations, Dick never ran into enemy resistance except for the occasional sniper. The snipers that he ran into were mostly farmers, and Dick felt that he would have been in more danger from them if they were throwing pitchforks because they were terrible shots. (1:24:31) When he was off duty, they would play basketball. Sometimes at night the base would play movies, one movie that they watched was John Wayne‟s “The Sands of Iwo Jima”. (1:26:33) They also had an enlisted men‟s club in Chu Lai but they weren‟t allowed to go to it. Once he snuck off base and went there. At the club, they were given a coupon good for one beer. Dick saved up his coupons, and was able to get six. (1:28:30) At Da Nang, Dick had his first offer for marijuana and had to trade two cartons of cigarettes to the barber and the next day he would bring two cartons of marijuana-filled cigarettes. Dick never went through with it and neither did any other member of B Company. (1:30:27) Some tensions did exist between the white and black Marines. When the race riots happened in Detroit, Dick was not able to sit with his friend Corporal Peterson, who was black. Peterson told the other black guys to leave Dick alone because he was a real nice guy. Dick got up and went and sat down with a table of all white men. That night, Peterson came and told Dick about the race riots and what was going on. (1:33:55) Corporal Peterson also told Dick about a letter that he had received from his brother back home. In it he learned that tanks had been deployed to Detroit to help control the riots. Dick had never seen a black person in real life before going into the Marine Corps. During his time there, Dick could not tell which locals were good and which ones were bad. They seemed like nice people, but he stayed away from them. He was told stories �              about a base barber that led an attack of Viet Cong on an American military base and he was found dead in the wire. (1:36:15) At the base, they had a field mess hall. Most of his time was spent on small bases. Da Nang was a large air base, but Dick was on a smaller base that had its own patrols and its own mess hall, supply buildings, but did not have hot water. They did have some solar heated water. (1:38:21) When they built their base in Phu Bai, they erected all the tents and put pallets down all over and nailed plywood on top of the pallets to keep them off the ground. They then put their cots on the plywood. Dick also made an outhouse that had four holes. He claims it was one of the only fourhole outhouses in South Vietnam. Barrels were placed under the holes with fuel oil in them, and they were burnt everyday. For showers, they cleaned four 55-gallon drums and filled them with water and hung them up with a spigot on the bottom that would release the water. During the summer months the water got hot, but in the winter the water would get around 70 degrees. (1:40:45) He kept in communication back home by writing letters. They had a MARS (Military Auxiliary Radio System) Station, which gave him a chance to call home, using shortwave radio waves to LA and then a Ham operator back to Michigan. After talking he would have to say „Over‟ and his parents would have to do the same. He was only able to do it once, and he only talked about 4H. (1:42:44) Dick never told his family about what had happened to him, except in one letter when he told his father a little about what happened on his first experience with his truck. He was able to take R&R in August of 1967; he went to Yokohama, Japan. He had been told about prostitutes, but he never knew anything about them. He finally met one and it cost him $200 and later another $100. (1:46:40) At that point, he only had one month to go before getting to go home. When he arrived back in Vietnam he rejoined his company in Phu Bai. Then they started getting hit with mortars at night. They set up bunkers, machine guns and land mines around the base in anticipation of an attack. The signal was two short blasts that meant incoming rounds such as mortars. One long blast signaled the Marines that the VC was coming through the fence. (1:48:42) Their base was never attacked while he was there, but three months after he got home the base was assaulted. Dick never had to transport casualties on his trucks, and he was glad for it. Most of the guys that did have to move the wounded were emotional distressed afterwards. (1:50:40) The last week he was there, Dick was in a convoy going to Khe Sanh that moved along Highway 1. Before they hit the hills and mountains, they stopped the convoy and said that an ambush was up ahead. Dick was ordered to park and stay overnight. They moved around the position and dug foxholes and set-up machine gun pits. He remembers being scared because he wasn‟t in the infantry. (1:52:35) The next day, 18-20 VC had been killed in the ambush and stacked along the side of the road. When Dick drove through there, he tried to count them all. An Ontos was leading the convoy, which is like a tank but the turret does not swivel and had six 105mm recoil-less rifles. (1:54:52) �  Dick made it back to his base after the convoy, and a week later got on a C-130 and flew down to Da Nang. After that they got over the mountains near Da Nang and the plane hit a downdraft and dropped about a hundred yards. He then was loaded onto a civilian airplane and flown to Japan, Alaska and then to Edwards Air Force Base in California. (1:56:50) Home in the States (1:57:09)           When he arrived back in the states, he learned that he was not a hero but looked at as a criminal by the American public. He went through the base and he was told that if he could afford it to fly home commercially and in civilian clothes. Since he didn‟t have any money he had to fly in his uniform and on military stand-by. While walking through the airport, men would cross in front of him and separate their wives and children from him when they walked by. (1:58:45) Dick flew into Chicago and met the same awkward welcome. When he flew into Grand Rapids, he took a taxi and gave the driver twenty dollars to drive him home to Rockford. He got out of the taxi carrying his sixty to seventy pound sea bag and saw his family up in the yard. Because of the weight of the bag, it looked like he was limping and his family thought he had been shot. (2:01:08) When he went into the house, his sister, who was a junior at Western Michigan University and home on break, was on her way out heading to the peace march in Washington D.C. At that point, he was just on leave and he had to report back to Paris Island, South Carolina. He was about to be promoted to corporal. (2:03:03) The next day he had to pick up a group of female recruits and bring them to church. The platoon sergeant knew he was going the wrong way, so she pulled a cord that blew a horn behind his head. He thought it was his air-lines, so he stopped and checked them out. He continued going and it happened again. This happened again and the platoon sergeant jumped down and started yelling at him. He doesn‟t like being yelled at by women and he told her to get back into the truck. (2:07:05) The platoon sergeant told the Navy Chaplain about the incident and he started to yell at Dick, so he just got back into his truck and left. When he got back, shore patrol was waiting for him and escorted him to the office where an officer was writing promotion warrants, he held up Dick‟s promotion and tore it up. He only had four months left in service at that point. (2:09:08) Later, when Dick got home, everyone was against the war. He went to college and was older than all the other students. He tried to fit in as best he could. While there, he also tried out for the baseball team. During the tryouts, he met a guy who thought the war was about the Vietnamese rice. (2:11:03) Dick was attending Grand Rapids Junior College, and he spent two years there. He was seven credit hours short of getting his associates degree when a class scheduling problem caused him to leave and get a job with the railroad. (2:13:01) Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (2:14:30) �             In 1975, Dick thought it was horrible that America pulled out of Vietnam and felt that he failed his country. Around that time he started having nightmares. When he was in Florida, shortly after leaving the Marine Corps, he was at a hamburger stand and a carload of black people drove by. A kid yelled for them to get back on their side of town, and Dick was appalled that they would be treated like that. Just a few months prior to that he was protecting black Marines and they were protecting him. (2:17:27) He tried to hide his problems from his wife because he did not want the image that was in the news about Vietnam vets going crazy and killing people. He lied to his wife and told her that the problems he was having were from him being worried about losing his job at the railroad. It was a high paying job and he worked as a district repairman plumber. (2:21:24) Dick also had nightmares about the mortar attack in Phu Bai; in his dream they blew the one long horn that signaled that the VC were coming through the line. He manned a machine gun and mowed dozens of people down. The next morning during the body count, Dick learned that all the people were kids under the age of ten. His nightmares started when he first got back, but they got worse after Vietnam fell. Another nightmare that he had was on campus at college; he had to walk right by a peace demonstration led by Jane Fonda. (2:23:45) As he walked by, she pointed him out and yelled “There goes one of those killers now.” She told him she could see the blood on his hands, and when he looked down his hands were dripping with blood. Because of these nightmares, he was given a 30% disability rating from the VA. (2:25:30) These went on until September 21, 1988. At that time his brother-in-law wanted a deck put on his house so Dick went to help him. He began to get sick and went home. When he finally fell asleep he was back in Vietnam. The nightmare was about the time his truck got stuck on the dyke the first day he was in country. The nightmare details his first several days in country. When he woke up, he was on the other side of the house bashing his head into the bathroom door. His kids had woken up and were scared because of what was going on. They rushed him to the hospital, and the doctor told him that he was having hallucinations due to having a high temperature. (2:31:10) They couldn‟t find anything wrong with him, so they sent him home and told his wife to draw a bath of cold water and have him sit in it if it happened again. After having many tests done, the doctors could not find the cause of his hallucinations. At one appointment he told the nurse about his nightmares and she asked if they were all related to Vietnam. She knew right away what was wrong, because her husband was in the 1st Cavalry and beat her often because of his experience. The nurse asked Dick‟s wife if he had beaten her, but he had not. They next made an appointment with the Vietnam Veterans of America. (2:34:10) His counselor had stepped on a land mine and had an artificial leg. He wanted Dick to start from the beginning and had him tell his story. Dick went to him everyday for a week and then went twice a week and gradually less and less. He learned to deal with PTSD, but there is no cure. �      He thought that he was cured and everything was going well until Desert Shield/Desert Storm. Dick called down to the VA again and they told him they were starting a group and they wanted him to come in. (2:37:15) Dick has been in counseling for twenty four years and continues to go to this day. Conflicts on TV such as Desert Storm and again on 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan caused him to slide backwards in his treatment. (2:39:18) Right now, the VA has said that Vietnam vets no longer need treatment, because they want to work with Iraq and Afghanistan vets. Dick read in the VFW magazine that some people are more susceptible to PTSD and that they are developing a test to give people prior to their military service. The people who have a high probability of having problems won‟t be allowed to enlist. (2:42:40) When he first got home, it took him about eighteen months before he could really communicate with his family and friends. The area of Rockford had changed so much since he left, and everyone had a different view on the events in Vietnam. (2:44:52) Dick feels that his PTSD was triggered by the protests and the poor treatment that he received from the American public when he got home. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brown, Richard "Dick" (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brown, Richard Description An account of the resource Dick was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in December 1946. He grew up in Rockford, Michigan and graduated from high school there in 1965. After facing a certainty of being drafted, he instead chose to enlist in the United States Marine Corps in 1966. After boot camp and ITR, he was made a truck driver and arrived in Vietnam with the 7th Motor Transport, which operated around Da Nang and Phu Bai in the northern part of South Vietnam. He served with two different companies carrying supplies to different units and bases, and toward the end of his tour went with a convoy into Khe Sanh. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Marine Corps Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-07-25 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BrownD1489V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8d41f1529990ebe7a1c87f211fd32cbb.mp4 bb9ecae6e3798081217cde8c35245373 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/074b5649bbff6f2c1ebba5d06947ecf6.pdf cd7493a30b137c7d179ff0852e8fc9e1 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Sarah Brooks (14:25) (00:20) Introduction • Born in August 1926. • Her father was a baker. • Attended school in Covert, Michigan. • Had to leave school in the 10th grade to care for her ailing mother. • Moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1943. • All of her brothers and sisters had to have jobs when they were growing up. • She was married in 1959. (06:25) Volunteering • Asked by some ladies in her Auxiliary to help at the Veterans Home in Grand Rapids. • She would organize fund drives for different organizations, such as Toys for Tots and the Veterans Home. • She always complains that the politicians never appreciate the homeless veterans. • She believes that people should only volunteer and give if it’s from their heart. • Has been the chairperson for a gift shop sponsored by the American Legion. (14:25) Memories and other Volunteer Opportunities • At one time she remembers one of the men being quiet when she kept going into his room, and then she asked what was going on and he asked her when she was coming to bed with a big smile on his face. She remembers that as one of her favorite memories. • Every November, the women veterans and widows have a luncheon and a speaker. • The men go on trips to the local casinos. • The men also get to go to local events such as the theatre and musical events. • The Adopt a Vet program helps men who do not have any family connect to a special person in the community. • They found a grave labeled “Unknown Colored Soldier.” She began working on a committee and had him exhumed. He was from the Civil War, and was taken to Battle Creek, Michigan. They had men dressed in authentic Civil War Uniforms for his reburial. • Leader of the Juniors of the American Legion, which was a group for family members of the Legion. Her granddaughter became the first black president of the juniors in the state of Michigan. • She also helps in the naturalization process in Grand Rapids Michigan. She hands out flags while the new citizens are naturalized. • Received the Sojourner Truth Award. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brooks, Sarah (Interview outline and video), 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brooks, Sarah Description An account of the resource Sarah Brooks is a long-time volunteer at the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans. In her interview, she discusses her volunteer work there, and some of her experiences with the veterans. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-08-21 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BrooksS Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f0365145a3fca9572adea4a8c5cbf93b.mp4 9b701abe0a4605c8ddfebfc9238e7261 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d5b147a1fd3b303d6520594bc634aa91.pdf 0c7222c03fe04298b9bb05871f5984f8 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Ed Brooks Length: 32:06 (00:15) Background Information • Ed was born in Mt. Pleasant, Michigan in 1940 • He had 2 brothers, his father was a farmer and his mother a housewife • Ed went to Hoover elementary school and then a larger school in the city after 8th grade • He played baseball and basketball in high school and graduated in 1959 • After graduation Ed worked at a gas station for a while and then decided to enlist in the Army in 1962 (8:40) Training • Ed was sent to Fort Knox in Kentucky for basic training in October of 1962 • He trained and worked in the motor pool, repairing jeeps and trucks (10:40) Korea • Ed was sent to Korea on a troop ship and was very sick the first 3 days of the trip • In Korea, there was very hot weather and the smell was terrible • There were a few civilians that they worked with and some of them spoke English • Ed spent 1 year in Korea and thought the food was great there • He worked driving jeeps and other vehicles and was never in any combat • Ed later took another troop ship back to the US and landed in San Francisco a month later • He was discharged in San Francisco after serving for 2 years (16:45) Back in US �• One year after being discharged Ed got married back home in Mt. Pleasant • He continued working at the gas station and now has 3 children and 4 grandchildren • He recently broke his hip working and was recovering at the Masonic Home at the time of the interview � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brooks, Richard (Interview outline and video) ca. 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brooks, Richard Description An account of the resource Richard Brooks was born in Canton Township, Michigan. His father died when he was two years old, and his mother later remarried and the family moved to Grand Rapids. He graduated from Central High School in 1933 and joined the Navy in 1940 to become a pilot. Richard went to Pensacola, Florida to conduct flight training and went on to be stationed in Naval Air Station Coco Solo in Panama. While there, he flew future President Gerald Ford across the Panama Canal so he could make it back to his ship. Later in the war, he was sent to the Pacific and stationed in the Philippines where he flew hundreds of hours of missions doing both Black-Cat operations and Air-Sea Rescue. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BrooksR0033V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/91ef98006067c60b45310490df639eb7.mp4 88e98e8dbdad0ac74b66bf6b40c10884 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2cf9ab29e1f4ba1e3256b71bf05844b5.pdf cac9dcdee6e1289dc45448bf4b6fe154 PDF Text Text GVSU Veterans History Project Mary Jean Brooks Interviewed by Frank Boring Transcribed by Emilee G. Johnson, Western Michigan University, September 2012 Interviewer: Mary Jean could you begin first by saying your full name including your maiden name? Mary Jean: My maiden name was Mary Jean Wood and my married name is Brooks. Interviewer: And, Mary Jean, where were you born? Mary Jean: I was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, but from age 5, I grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Interviewer: What was your schooling like—your early schooling? Mary Jean: Well, I went to the public schools in Grand Rapids, Michigan, I graduated from 1:00 East Grand Rapids High School in 1939, and then I went on to Michigan State University, um, got a bachelor’s degree in home economics education in 1943. Interviewer: Well, ’43... you already heard about Pearl Harbor. Mary Jean: Oh, yes…Pearl Harbor occurred when I was a junior in college and I remember it vividly. It was on a Sunday, and um, the campus was in an uproar. Some of the men literally left immediately to enlist, and a lot of the men were in ROTC, so they were called up very soon. And by the time my senior year rolled around, there were very few men on campus other than some military units 2:00 that were being trained there. Interviewer: What was your reaction to the actual event, personally? What did you feel like or what was your reaction when you first heard it happened? Mary Jean: Well it was a shock. It was more of a shock for many of my girlfriends who had boyfriends that they were planning on marrying. I wasn’t in that situation, but uh, a lot of them, there were a lot of hurried up marriages that occurred, um, shortly after that, before the men went overseas. But it was a shock and of course campus life kind of came to a screaming halt, the social life, uh, but we finished our degrees and went on, of course. Interviewer: Did you at the time of Pearl Harbor have any inkling that you were going to eventually become part of the military, was that…? �Mary Jean: No, I don’t think so, 3:00 not at that time. Interviewer: Uh, now you graduate from college, but before you do that you were actually involved with USO activities, is that correct, while you were still in college? Mary Jean: No, no, that was when I was working, oh, after college, I uh, well, I wanted to be an airline stewardess—it sounded so glamorous, and my father absolutely had a fit. He said, “I did not pay for your education for you to be a glorified servant!” So, with tears in my eyes, I accepted an offer to teach in Traverse City, Michigan. So, um, I went up there in the northwoods, and um, there was a Naval Air Station there in Traverse City. Uh, so it wasn’t a bad…socially, it wasn’t a bad assignment and I enjoyed the teaching, and uh, we teachers 4:00 used to date the pilots that were out at the air station, and we volunteered at the USO in town and used to go and visit with the young men and help them write letters home and put on suppers and events for them. Interviewer: Um, it was soon after that period though, that uh, you joined the WAVES…I’m wondering how did that come about? Mary Jean: Well, I was, uh, rooming with another teacher, and I don’t know, we got it in our heads that we wanted to join the service…It’s funny you don’t remember exactly how it happened. One thing that I do remember was that there was a WAC officer (WAC is Women Army Corps) uh, who was up in Traverse City trying to recruit teachers and she wined and dined us. 5.00 Uh, and that may have put up the idea in our heads, I don’t know. But, uh, we got to talking about joining the service, but when we discovered that the WACs wore khaki underwear [laughs] we didn’t want to be in the WACs, you know, when you’re 22 those things are important. And of course we’d been exposed to the Navy up there at the Naval Air Station and my father had been in the Navy in World War I. Alice’s mother had been in a, um, oh, it was like a secretary corps in World War I in the Navy. So anyhow, we decided on the Navy. We made our applications and waited and waited. School was out, we got accepted, but we had to…we were waiting for our orders so we both took jobs for the summer in Traverse City. 6:00 And I was working as a chemist, uh, in a cherry cannery. Um, we were uh, testing every 50 th can of cherries or whatever, to make sure that, you know, the pits didn’t go through or anything. So one day, I was there at the cannery, and this car from the Naval Air Station drives up and they’re asking for me, and here they are, they’re coming to pick me up, take me to the air station and swear me into the Navy. [laughs] So there I was with cherry stains on my hands and a big apron on me and they took me out there and I swore into the Navy. And then shortly after that, uh, I received my orders to um, report to Smith College in Northampton, Massachusetts, for officers’ training. 7:00 Now, the um, the WAVES, by the way, the WAVES, the letters stood for Women Accepted for Voluntary Emergency Service. Uh, they…you could enlist as an officer, you didn’t have to come up through the ranks if you were a college graduate. So I went straight �into officers’ training in Northampton. And I remember going out there, and uh, I was alone because Alice hadn’t gotten her orders at the same time I had, so I went alone on a train, uh went to Springfield, Massachusetts and then took the little commuter train to Northampton. And uh, you know a whole bunch of us ratty-looking civilian uniform. 8:00 girls being met by all these girls in Interviewer: Uh, you were talking earlier about the train trip over, uh, if you could describe your feelings…and then the actual ride over, what did you find? Mary Jean: Well the little train that I took from Springfield to Northampton was full of girls who were on their way for WAVE officer training. And we were all very excited, and apprehensive, we didn’t know what to expect. But, when the train arrived and we got off the train, here were all these girls in their snappy uniforms, greeting us. And, uh, we felt welcomed, we really did. And of course we were ushered into a big building and they uh, 9:00 I think right off the bat they issued our uniforms, you know. Uh, we got a winter uniform which was the blue uniform which was a grey and white sear-sucker dress with a jacket, matching jacket that went over it and then a dress summer uniform that was like a white sear-sucker. We hated those. [laughs] And then shirts and ties and purses and shoes—oh, the shoes were awful! Just awful! [laughs] They were…they looked like, I don’t know, they were clunky and they didn’t fit and we all got blisters from marching. As soon as we got out of training we rushed out and got some decent shoes. [laughs] Interviewer: Let’s go back uh, to before training, uh you arrived there and you were met by women in uniform, uh 10:00 there was a certain sense of excitement about it, because here you’re seeing what you’re going to be like very soon. Mary Jean: Yes. Interviewer: But where were you actually brought to, I mean, what kind of environment did you live in, where did you eat? Mary Jean: Well, we were at Smith College. Now, there were still college students that were there also, but uh, the Navy and the WAVES had taken over a couple of the dormitories and we were fed in the Northampton Inn, uh, which was a lovely hotel. Now, we were fed Navy style, you know, we had our trays and we went down…like uh, cafeteria style. But the food was good, uh, so…and then we used classrooms in the college also uh, for our classes. Interviewer: Well, tell us a little about these classes, what was a typical day on the first part of your training? Mary Jean: Well we 11:00 did a lot of training that was very much like men’s basic training except we didn’t use any guns. We marched and we marched and we marched, we marched �everywhere, to class, to mess, we had drills on the field, we did a lot of marching, it was…it was very physically demanding. Interviewer: Now, when you see film footage or movie depictions of men’s basic training, they had fatigues and boots…what were you marching around in? Mary Jean: We marched in our regular uniforms. And I was there in the fall, so we wore our winter uniforms. Every morning when you got up, on the loudspeaker it came and they told you what the uniform of the day was and what you were to wear, um, so, yeah. And we always wore uniforms, 12:00 you could never be out of uniform during the war. Uh, today, I guess, when you’re off duty you don’t have to wear a uniform, but that was not the case during World War II. In the classes, oh, they taught us to recognize all the Navy aircraft and Navy ships, we learned all the Navy lingo. Um, we had, uh, oh, updates on how the war was going every day, um, kind of news-types that would give us updates. Interviewer: By updates, are you talking about, “we’ve taken over this particular place,” or “the Germans are attacking us here,” or was it more in general, was it specifics or general? Mary Jean: It was specifics except we didn’t get any top secret information, but, uh, no it was 13:00 quite specific, what was going on in the war. We were really, uh, we knew pretty much what was going on. Interviewer: Did you have any idea, I’m talking about the early part of your training, you just arrived there, you’re only starting to go to classes, of what your role in this war was going to be? Mary Jean: No. Um, nobody knew what their assignment was going to be. We knew we were going to be officers. If we washed out, you could, you had the choice of going home or enlisting in the ranks, um, that was a choice. And some women did wash out. Interviewer: Well, let’s discuss first of all, cause people may not, I know what wash out is but what is wash out mean and what does it mean to return to the ranks? Mary Jean: Oh! Washing out means, uh, not making it, basically, for physical reasons or for the classroom work or maybe for some behavior that 14:00 isn’t appropriate. Um, ranks means enlisted ranks. Um, we learned all the Navy regulations, there was quite a bit of learning involved. Interviewer: Well, to wash out uh, somehow, means there were some kinds of tests that were given, so please talk about that. Mary Jean: Oh, yes. Well, we had tests in our classes and uh, you know the physical aspect of it, we did calisthenics and we had to swim. Now I knew how to swim, I never know a soul that didn’t know how to swim, but everybody that joined the Navy had to be taught to swim if they �didn’t know how. Um, and all the marching. Some of the women, some of the older women particularly just…they couldn’t take it. Interviewer: Um was there any, and once again, we’re only talking about the early days now, 15:00 any kind of social life after you finished with the training, you’ve had your dinner, were you just too tired to go anywhere or were there actually places you could go? Mary Jean: No, we had, um, I’m trying to think. I don’t think that we did anything socially during basic training. Once I had my commission and I was being trained in the communications school, then we would have, uh, weekends off, and we could get off base. Interviewer: Ok, I don’t want to go that far yet. Mary Jean: Ok. Interviewer: All right, so basic training, obviously you passed that, physically as well as the tests and everything. Um, at some point you were involved in a special drill team, is that right? Mary Jean: Yes. Interviewer: Ok, tell us about the special drill team. Mary Jean: Well, apparently I got pretty good at it. And it is fun to drill. Interviewer: I don’t know what you’re talking about. Mary Jean: Drilling is marching and following orders, 16:00 you know. Interviewer: So what is the special drill team? Mary Jean: That was a group of, oh I can’t remember, oh the Special Drill Team was a group of women, probably 20 of us, I don’t remember for sure. Uh, and we’d go around and do demonstrations. We’d go to schools and uh, different events all around Northampton, we didn’t go any farther. But we didn’t drill with guns or dummy guns, it was just a drilling with orders to drill. Interviewer: Uh, we’re going to leave now and enter into the Special Communications School, but is there anything you can think of now that was extraordinary or special or…that you can remember from that basic training period that you want to say. Mary Jean: Well, we all 17:00 had blisters, I’ll tell you. At sick call every night there were people going in and getting their blisters fixed. Oh, it was terrible and I uh…when we were commissioned, that’s when you get your rank, we were commissioned as ensigns in the Navy, Naval Reserve. I was so worn out, I got sick and I had to be in sick bay for a couple days and all I did was lay in bed and think of that wonderful hat with the insignia on it, I was so thrilled to �have it. It’s just the proudest day of your life and I know my parents were proud too, my father was thrilled to death that I was in the Navy. But then, of course, orders, we were all waiting— where are we going to go? Everybody wanted to go to an air station, that was 18:00 …sounded real glamorous. But guess what? Almost all of the younger WAVES were sent to communications school. And communications school was right there on the Smith College campus again. They had taken over one of the buildings there and you…we lived in that building and had our classes in that building. Basically we were learning to code and decode messages. We learned a lot of typing [laughs], a lot of nonsensical typing, because the machines—now there were several coding devices that they used but primarily we used a machine. And the machines…uh, the code would come out in 5-letter groups, so if you were typing 19:00 a code into the machine, you would just type in these nonsensical groups of 5 letters. And if you did it right and the machine was set right, it would come out plain language or you would type plain language in and it would come out these 5-letter groups. And that was the main coding device that the Navy used. Uh, on some of the small ships on the outposts, they didn’t have the machines and they used a device called flat strip where they moved strips of paper back and forth. Interviewer: But this is all part of your training… Mary Jean: That was all part of our training and the typing was, and it’s hard to type a bunch of letters that don’t mean anything, it’s amazing. Interviewer: Um, this is going to sound like a very stupid question but I just did you have any idea of what this training was going to be used for? 20:00 want to ask, Mary Jean: Uh, yes, we knew we were going to be doing code work. Now at that point in time, we didn’t know where. I mean, it…there were a lot of places you could be assigned to do code work. Quite a few of the women went to San Francisco but the majority of us were sent to Washington, D.C., to the Navy Department, and that’s where my orders were from. Interviewer: Let’s not go there that quickly. Um, I’d like to talk more about the, uh, the communications school. Uh, give us an idea of what your day was like and what your week was like during the first few weeks of your training. Mary Jean: Well, uh, I’d like to go back just a little bit because my friend Alice was called a month 21:00 after I was called. So I was already a midshipman when she arrived in Northampton and I was part of the greeting committee. It was just wonderful [laughs] to greet her and I’m sure she was glad to see me. And she was also assigned to communications, so she was always coming along a month after me uh, and there’s more to that later. But yeah, uh, our day in communications school…we didn’t do as much marching, first of all, it wasn’t quite as regimented. We went to our classes and we went to mess and all that, um, we still had our �briefings on the war. But, uh, we had time off, we could go into town and shop and get decent shoes, and we had our weekends off 22:00 and uh, we would often go into Springfield and do something. Interviewer: So in a typical day, it’s almost like college, you’re just going to classes and then you have a meal break and then more classes. Uh, homework? Mary Jean: Uh, I don’t remember, I think we did it all in classes. Interviewer: And then your classes, day to day, throughout a week, were they like a college where you went to one class on one day and then another class another day or how was that spread out? Mary Jean: Well, in communications school, it just all ran together, all the classes, uh, you were pretty much in the room, which would be like a code room and you were typing and running the machines and that kind of thing. Interviewer: How many women were in a class—your classes? 10? 15? 20? Well, larger than 5 or less than 10 or--? 23:00 Mary Jean: Maybe 20. Interviewer: OK Mary Jean: Maybe more. I really don’t remember. We were 2 months in that training and 2 months in basic training. Interviewer: And then what happened after that, the training was over with? Mary Jean: Well, that…then you wait for your orders again! [laughs] And, uh, I got orders to Washington, D.C., the Navy Department. Interviewer: And what was your reaction to that? Mary Jean: Disappointment. Didn’t sound very glamorous to me—what about this air station that I was going to go to? You know, but it turned out very well. Washington was a very exciting place to be and I’m happy I was assigned there but you know we all had stars in our eyes. Interviewer: So, you’re packing up, you got your orders, you’re packing up at Smith. How did you get to Washington? Mary Jean: Took the train, and of course 24:00 a lot of us went together. Um, and I had made two very good friends in communications school. The problem with going to Washington was, the Navy would not provide housing for the WAVE officers, there were no barracks for them. We had to find our own housing and um, and we got a housing allowance. So when we first �arrived, the 3 of us got rooms at the YWCA, uh and then, you know we had to report for work at the Navy Department. And that Navy Department was a ramshackle old building that was built for World War I, it was a temporary building, they were not in the Pentagon like they are now. And it was just a creaky-floored old building, it smelled musty, there was no air conditioning, it was uh, 25:00 well, it was ramshackle. It was right across the street from, uh, the Department of Agriculture. It’s no longer there, it’s been torn down. But anyhow, we arrived at the Navy Department and we were directed to the code room. Interviewer: What time of the month—what period of the year are we talking about here? Mary Jean: Well, we’re talking winter. Interviewer: Ok. Mary Jean: All right? And…would’ve been right about uh, I think it was December or January. In fact, it seems to me that after communications school I was able to go home for Christmas and then reported to Washington, now that I think of it. Interviewer: So, Washington, although it doesn’t get the kind of weather as Grand Rapids, it still is pretty cold. Mary Jean: Oh, yes! Interviewer: Let’s talk about the ramshackle building in the cold, ok? Mary Jean: Drafty. 26:00 And they get snow in Washington, and I’ll tell you about one snowstorm later but, um, yeah, it was cold and we had over our hats—we had these lovely hats that were designed by Schiaparelli and they were beautiful hats, but uh, you changed the tops. You had a white top, a gray-and-white-striped top or a blue top to go with the different uniforms. Uh, but we had something called a Havelock which was a blue wool cover that came down around here [motions to back of neck] and you put over your hat if it rained. But we used to do it when it was cold to keep our ears warm. Or we’d wear them when our hair was up in curlers so we wouldn’t take our curlers out until we got to work. [laughs] But yes, it wasn’t a nice building it was a very drafty old building. 27:00 it was cold and Interviewer: So where was the communications room and can you describe what it looked like when you came into it? Mary Jean: I can’t even remember exactly where it was anymore. Uh, it was just one great big room full of these machines and there were some side offices. Our commanding officer had his own office and there was, um, there was another special room that we called “the dog house,” actually I was assigned to that room. And in that room, we had to try to decode messages where people had done something wrong, had used the code for the wrong day or, you know, the wrong �wheels in the machine or whatever. 28:00 So there was that room and then there was another room called “the conference room,” and eventually Alice was assigned to that and that was a neat assignment. First of all I should mention that when I got to Washington and Alice was a month behind me, she’d been sent to communications school, I asked my commanding officer to request her, which he did, so she wound up in Washington and we lived together there. But anyhow, she got assigned later to this conference room, where the admirals would come in and would have conferences with the admirals in the fleet and the machinery would scramble their conversations and Alice would run all the machinery and of course she met all this 29:00 top brass! [laughs] Admiral King and all these pin up boys that we had! [laughs] It was really quite exciting for her. Interviewer: Uh, let’s get back to your first days and weeks in the communications department. Um, you mentioned, you had these machines, which you’d already been trained on. Mary Jean: Mmhmm. Interviewer: Ok? What were the nature of the messages coming in to be decoded? Are we talking about messages from our side are we talking about messages that were captured by German or Japanese? Mary Jean: No, they were from our side. Now, there was another communication building and some of the women were sent to that where they were breaking enemy code. And I don’t know how they did that, we weren’t trained to do that. But that was another, you know, branch of the communications. We were uh, 30:00 doing our own code and most of the messages were from the fleet in the Pacific, uh, back to the Navy Department. Interviewer: Without trying to give away secrets or anything, give us an idea of what types of messages were being decoded. Mary Jean: Well, an awful lot of them seemed to be quite routine. They’d be uh, well, for instance, we used to get a lot of messages from a place called Ulithi. It was out in the Pacific. Turns out Ulithi is a uh, shoot, what do they call it, well it’s like an island with a big harbor in the middle of it. And it’s where all the ships would be gathered to get ready for an invasion. And so, we get these lists from Ulithi of all the ships that were, 31:00 uh, there at harbor and also all the supplies and munitions and everything that was being gathered, you know, getting ready for an invasion. There were a lot of those. We also got a lot of casualty lists which were sad of course. Uh, and a variety of orders, uh, you know, the orders all went back and forth. Orders that went within the fleet would come to Washington. And then there were orders from the admirals in the fleet to the admirals in Washington. You know, you knew what was going on, but some of it I didn’t understand. Like the names of these places, I never knew what Ulithi was till I got out. �I had no idea what it was, it was just these long equipment. 32:00 lists of you know, munitions and Interviewer: Now, I want you to give us an idea of incoming coded messages being decoded. Where do they go from there? Mary Jean: Oh, then we would deliver them. Because we handled all confidential, secret and top secret. They all had to be handled by officers. There were also restricted messages uh, and nonclassified messages. They were uh, all handled by uh, non-commissioned people. Not only did we decode them but then we would deliver them to whomever they were sent to. And uh, every once in a while you got to go to the White House to deliver 33:00 the message. I can remember that was really exciting. They’d send a Navy car around for you and you’d sit in the back seat and they’d drive up to the gate at the White House and the guard would ask for your credentials and then he’d give you a smart salute, you know, you drive in. Then you go in a side door and down in the basement and they had a room that was called “the war room,” knock on the door and somebody opens it up a crack and grabs the message and that’s it, you’re gone! [laughs] I never saw the president or anybody but you know, it was exciting to do that. Interviewer: Um, part of this I’m sure was somewhat mundane— Mary Jean: Yes. Interviewer: You know the day to day [garbled]. But out of all that can you recall any particular incidents that may have stood out, funny things that might have happened, or as you say, going to the White House 34:00 was a big deal, but other things that might have happened? Mary Jean: Well it really was more like a job, you know. Especially since we had our own housing, you know, you get on the bus and go down to the Navy Department and go to your job. We worked watches (they called them in the Navy) but that’s shift work. We would work 2 days each shift, 7 to 11 in the morning 2 days, then 11, how does that go, 11 to 7, then 7 to 11 [laughs] then 11 to 7. In between each watch, you know, 2 days on each one, you get 24 hours off. And then when you run the whole cycle, you get 48 hours off. In our 48 35:00 hours off, we used to go and play, you know, go to New York and see a play or we’d go to the beach and we’d go out to the Naval Air Station at Anacostia and see if we could bum a ride somewhere in the airplane. Uh, but it was kind of hard on your constitution because nothing ever was the same especially at night watch, it was really hard. Interviewer: Uh I want to cover two different things but you don’t often get a view of New York City during the war. Mary Jean: Oh, yes. �Interviewer: Give us an idea of what it was like, put us in your shoes—you’re arriving, this young woman in New York City and, on leave. Tell me what you [garbled] Mary Jean: Well, first of all, um, where do you stay in New York City? Well, there was a um, I believe it was on 5th Avenue, there was this big, uh, 36:00 mansion that had been turned into a military women’s hotel. And you could go and stay there free if you were, you know, a woman in uniform. There were…it was a beautiful mansion but they just had rooms with bunk beds in them. But that’s where we almost always stayed. And then you could get reduced price tickets because you were in uniform so we would go to plays and we would too, often go to radio shows and see them and, well, everybody was in uniform. Especially in Washington, young people, if you saw a young person not in uniform, a man particularly, people would go, “Gee, I wonder why.” And I had a very good friend, a young man that I went to high school with. 37:00 He was a chemical engineer and he was working on the atom bomb (we didn’t know that, you see) in Tennessee. And of course he was not in uniform. And I remember he came to visit me in Washington, and we went out, and here I am in uniform and he’s not. [laughs] Anyhow, people just looked sideways at us like, “what’s going on there?” Interviewer: Well I fully understand that cause my dad, he went through the same thing, he was working, didn’t realize it, on the Manhattan Project, they didn’t tell him cause they wouldn’t let him join, so he had that same kind of experience. You say everybody was in uniform in New York, I mean— Mary Jean: It just felt that way. Interviewer: Yeah, ok. Yeah. Uh, radio shows, was there any particular personality you were able to sit it on, Bob Hope or any of those people? Mary Jean: Uh, Fred Waring I remember. 38:00 It was a music show. I can’t remember any of the others. We saw Oklahoma, standing room only. [laughs] And after I met my future husband, we would go to New York and take in some plays when we were still in uniform. Interviewer: Even though you’re out on leave and you’re relieved to get away from the daily routine of the work, was there still, was there a sense of the war, did people try to forget it or was there a sense of…I’m trying to get an idea of the environment, the kind of emotional environment, of coming into town and…I know if I went to New York to go, to see a play, I would be in a certain frame of mind but I’m not going during World War II, so I guess, how was, did you see, were people apprehensive or just like it was a normal day? Mary Jean: It felt normal. Uh, it was, you know, that’s the way it was. 39:00 Um, in Washington, of course, you know, they had blackouts, and the capital lights never went on until I think it was VJ day that the lights finally went on. But no, that’s the way it was. Now it was very very sad, you know, I would hear of a friend’s husband who had been killed, and uh… But it was �a way of life and people made sacrifices. You know there were…we had food stamps. Even in the Navy we had food stamps. When we kept house ourselves, you know, you couldn’t get very much meat or butter and there were gasoline stamps but we didn’t have a car anyhow, there was no point in having one because you can’t get gasoline enough. And you saved tin cans, 40:00 and um, I don’t know, it’s just what you did. [laughs] You were at war. And uh, people accepted that. Interviewer: Was there a strong sense amongst you and your colleagues that you were fighting something pretty evil, that you knew that this was— Mary Jean: Oh yes, oh yes. Absolutely. Interviewer: Could you talk about that a little bit? Mary Jean: Uh, well there was a huge sense of patriotism in the country I mean everybody was pulling together. Uh, you know and it was hard for our generation when the Vietnam War came along and people weren’t you know, as patriotic, because we were. All of us and our parents were, the whole country was pulling together. And you know, you’d go somewhere and people would see you in uniform and they’d greet you, and they’d be pleased to see you in uniform. 41:00 Uh, it was neat! Um, it was a hard time, but it was an exciting time for a young person, it really was. I, uh, I was very fortunate that I didn’t run off and get married and that I had this experience. I was a maturing experience and it was a very exciting experience too. Interviewer: You know we look at, uh, as historians, we look at some of the posters and news items about people like Hitler and the Japanese and all that, um, they’re almost cartoon-like characters, whereas…these people were trying to knock off half the world and were literally…did you have a sense that…I guess what I’m trying to get at, Mary Jean, is beyond the propaganda element, did you have a, even at that young age, a sense that this was a real evil out there that had to be stopped? Mary Jean: 42:00 Oh yes. Yes, but you know the interesting…uh, Germany and Italy too, you know, they were the bad guys, there was evil, but we didn’t know at that time what Hitler really was doing. I mean, that evil didn’t come out until it was almost all over. My goodness, if we had known then, you talk about experiencing evil. No, we had no idea that he was purging the Jews. Terrible [shakes head], terrible. Interviewer: Um, who were…I don’t expect names per say, but if you do remember names, it’s great, I know a lot of people came and went through the code room, uh, admirals and captains and whatever, I mean, do you remember any incidents when individuals came in who either impressed you or you noticed, or…? �Mary Jean: There were some that sent messages. Admiral Halsey 43:00 was one. Uh, he sent the most colorful messages! I mean, we could hardly wait to get a message from Admiral Halsey! [laughs] “Bull Halsey” they called him. Uh, Admiral King, I think, came through once, but no, the really high-ups were cloistered. [laughs] Uh, there were a lot of captains around and… Interviewer: Well let’s talk about messages then, I mean, why did you have such a reaction to Admiral Halsey? I mean, I know a little bit about him, but— Mary Jean: Well, well, he used swear words and you know, they were colorful! [laughs] He was a character, he was. [laughs] Interviewer: So, what were the nature of some of those colorful messages, I mean, he was trying to get some kind of equipment or trying to get something done? Mary Jean: Yeah, if something hadn’t arrived that he’d asked for, you know “Get” [laughs] yeah, very strong, angry messages. “Do something!” [laughs] 44:00 Interviewer: But to you all this was actually a high point of the day because it was entertaining! Mary Jean: [laughs] Yeah. Interviewer: That’s great. Mary Jean: Uh, the messages would come out in little strips. It was a little bit like Western Union used to be, it’d come out in little strips and then you’d paste the strips on paper, yellow paper, that looked just like the old Western Union messages, they didn’t come out like a Xerox machine or anything, you had to paste them on the sheets of yellow paper. Interviewer: Now these are the messages that had already been decoded? Mary Jean: Yes. Interviewer: OK Mary Jean: When they came in. Interviewer: Well let’s go through the process that the code comes through, on one of these machines you were describing… Mary Jean: Yeah, every day, you received the code for the day. 45:00 And you set the machines. The machines had, I don’t know, 3 or 4 wheels in them and the wheels had to be set in a certain way. And everybody in the whole Navy was supposed to set their wheels that way that day. And then when the machines…when the messages came in, if they had set the right code for �the right day, uh, then you type it in your machine and it would come out all right. Now if they did something wrong, well, then, you have a problem. Interviewer: You go to the dog house? Mary Jean: [Laughs] That’s right. But yes, they’d come in and then you’d type them in. And they come out in these little strips. Interviewer: Um, the other part I want to talk about is bumming rides, hitchhiking if you will, on airplanes, I think people would like to hear about this. Mary Jean: Well, it had some perks to it, 46:00 you know, uh, it wasn’t all work. Um, my girlfriends and I used to go out to the naval air station when we had time off and sit around see if we could get a ride to somewhere. And I remember one very specifically, four of us…no three of us, had uh, leave. Two weeks leave. And we decided to go to Cuba, which was off-limits to civilians. So we went out to the Anacostia naval air station and told them that we were heading in that direction, and was anybody going in our direction? We waited and waited and waited and finally there was a plane going to Albany, Georgia. And we thought, oh let’s get on that one and at least we’d be on our way. 47:00 So we get into this plane with this pilot and we wind up at this little naval air station in Albany, Georgia. Nowhere! And there we are! The commanding officer there says, “What am I going to do with you girls?” [laughs] We were stuck there! Nobody was going anywhere. And finally—we stayed overnight there—finally the commanding officer says, “Well, I’ve got to get my air time in for my flight pay this month.” He said, “I’ll fly you to,” uh, uh, where was it? I want to say Pensacola but that’s not right. Anyhow, a place in Florida where the naval air transport came in. So he flew us there and then we sat around there to get a flight to Cuba. And uh, 48:00 finally they came through with two seats. And there were three of us. And they said, “well,” you know, “we’ve just got two seats. But,” they said, “I think we could get you another seat on an Army plane that’s going to Miami.” [laughs] In fact, the NATs plane was going to Miami too, not Cuba. So we drew straws and Boo got the Army flight. And we said goodbye and she said, “Now I’ll meet you at Miami and this pink hotel,” she gave us the name of it. The Flamingo or something. And I guess she had quite an experience, she went off over hill and dale to this Army air station and they loaded her in this bomber! [laughs] Can you imagine? And they flew 49:00 into Miami. We were in a nice airliner, you know. [laughs] And we did connect down there, we found each other and then we were able to get on Naval Air Transport into Havana. And we had a wonderful vacation. There were…the Nationale Hotel there, which is the big hotel in Havana, was being used for R & R for Army and Navy, people who were coming back from combat. So we had a lot of male playmates while we were down there! [laughs] And then we came back. That was our most exciting adventure but we did a lot of other things, bumming flights. �Interviewer: Uh, we’re going to conclude, I think with, you went to Conoco Base in Virginia, is that right, 50:00 right after that, and then you got the place in Chevy Chase, and then you met Dick, ok. And then we’re going to get to the wedding and eventually how you got out of the Navy [garbled].mMary Jean, if you could tell us about Chevy Chase, the house in Chevy Chase, and um, the dinner party that you had. Mary Jean: Well, uh, the four of us who were living together, we had rented a house in Arlington for a while, and then the people who owned the house came back, uh, so we had to get out, and then we rented a house in Chevy Chase. And a lot of 51:00 people were renting out their houses to service people and then they would live in the upstairs rooms, which is what this couple did in Chevy Chase. So we had this house in Chevy Chase, and uh, one of the girls that I lived with, Motsy, was dating an officer from the Naval Air Station at Anacostia, he was a ship service officer, and he called her one day and he said, uh, “I’ve got some butter and I’ve got some steaks,” and believe me, that’s a big deal during the war. He said, “And I have a friend. And uh, we’d like to come over and play bridge with two of you and two of you can cook the dinner.” Well, sure, come ahead, you know. So they came, and Alice and I, who were home-ecs, you see, 52:00 were the cooks, and the other two girls played bridge and the friend turned out to be Dick Brooks, who later became my husband. But that is how we met. Well, at that time, you were always meeting new people and the first thing you said to anybody you met was “where are you from?” And he said, “Grand Rapids, Michigan,” and we all broke up because both Alice and I were from Grand Rapids, Michigan, and we thought he’d been put up to it to make a joke but it turned out he really was from Grand Rapids, of all things. So they were at our house for that evening and afterwards the girls all said to me, he’s going to call you, Mary Jean, and I don’t know why they thought that but sure enough, he did, 53:00 and we had two or three dates, and I wrote my mother a letter, um, telling her I’d met a man from Grand Rapids and his name was Dick Brooks. And in the next letter comes his whole family history! [laughs] It turns out Dick’s aunt was in my mother’s bridge club! [laughs] But our paths had never crossed in Grand Rapids. Well, shortly after that, Dick called, and he said, um, “I can get a plane to fly to Grand Rapids for Sunday dinner on Sunday would you and Alice like to go along?” Well, he didn’t have to ask twice, I’ll tell you that and we all said, “yes, yes, we’d love to go.” So he got his friend, Gus Elwell, as a co-pilot and we all flew home to Grand Rapids and came into the old airport and all our families were there. 54:00 Alice’s family and my parents and Dick’s mother and Dick’s best friend and his wife. We had a wonderful day and then flew back to Washington. And I know Dick’s best friend and his wife said afterwards, “she’s the one!” [laughs] How they knew, I don’t know, but sure enough, one thing led to another and a few months later we were married. Interviewer: Let’s go into the situation, uh, at the end of the war, uh, you were still in the military. �Mary Jean: I was still in the military when we got married. Yes. Interviewer: Ok. Mary Jean: The war was over. Interviewer: Ok, so for people who don’t understand, how did you get out of the military? Mary Jean: Well, at that time, a woman could get out, uh, if she was married. In fact, she had to get out. But, at that time also, 55:00 the war was over and they were releasing people, but uh, they were released in the order of the number of months or years they were in. Uh, it just happened because I got married, I got out a little earlier than other people. But I was and Dick was too, still officially in the Navy on terminal leave, which means, you know, accrued vacation time when we were married, so we were able to go to Bermuda on our honeymoon on the Navy. We went on a Naval Air Transport plane for nothing because we were still in the Navy at that moment. Interviewer: Well, let’s sum up here, just for a moment, and, one of the questions I usually ask, uh, different people that I interview how do you feel about World War II and its effect on you as a person. 56:00 your experience during Mary Jean: Well, the skills I learned weren’t anything that could be transferred to civilian life other than I matured uh, I learned to problem solve, um, I gained a lot of self-confidence, and I had an exciting experience, it’s, it’s, um, something that uh, I wouldn’t have missed for anything and I found a husband. [laughs] Interviewer: That is wonderful. Mary Jean: Forgot the party. Interviewer: Oh…ok, go ahead. The party. Mary Jean: I forgot to tell about the party we had after I had met Dick. The four of us girls decide to have a party for our watch, all the people that worked 57:00 with us. So Dick and his friend flew to Chincoteague and got a bunch of raw oysters for the party and we girls, not being very big drinkers, didn’t know quite what to fix, so we looked in the cookbook and we found a recipe for artillery punch, in The Joy of Cooking. Well, artillery punch had a fifth of everything in it. It was absolutely lethal. [laughs] And everybody was getting just smashed and Dick and his friend were there and Dick’s friend, Gus Elwell, finally picked up the punch bowl, poured it all down the sink, and said, “this party is over!” [laughs] Interviewer: Well, I want to thank you very much, this interview is over not because we’re all loaded or anything but I would like to have just a shot of me next to Mary Jean. [Pause] Thank you so much. �Mary Jean: Oh! It was fun. 58:12 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brooks, Mary Jean (Interview transcript and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brooks, Mary Jean Description An account of the resource Mary Jean Brooks was in the WAVES during World War II. She trained at Smith College in communications. She worked in the Naval Department building in Washington, D.C., encoding and decoding messages sent to and from naval bases and ships. She delivered some messages herself to different government offices and to the White House. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Naval Reserve. Women’s Reserve Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-05-22 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BrooksM Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/35a010bae013091293b3f189d0b15353.mp4 6f25c4e1761cfb64a9c1c3879c782436 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d5a3f2ddcae25e8ff4266566dd08144d.pdf 0c7222c03fe04298b9bb05871f5984f8 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Ed Brooks Length: 32:06 (00:15) Background Information • Ed was born in Mt. Pleasant, Michigan in 1940 • He had 2 brothers, his father was a farmer and his mother a housewife • Ed went to Hoover elementary school and then a larger school in the city after 8th grade • He played baseball and basketball in high school and graduated in 1959 • After graduation Ed worked at a gas station for a while and then decided to enlist in the Army in 1962 (8:40) Training • Ed was sent to Fort Knox in Kentucky for basic training in October of 1962 • He trained and worked in the motor pool, repairing jeeps and trucks (10:40) Korea • Ed was sent to Korea on a troop ship and was very sick the first 3 days of the trip • In Korea, there was very hot weather and the smell was terrible • There were a few civilians that they worked with and some of them spoke English • Ed spent 1 year in Korea and thought the food was great there • He worked driving jeeps and other vehicles and was never in any combat • Ed later took another troop ship back to the US and landed in San Francisco a month later • He was discharged in San Francisco after serving for 2 years (16:45) Back in US �• One year after being discharged Ed got married back home in Mt. Pleasant • He continued working at the gas station and now has 3 children and 4 grandchildren • He recently broke his hip working and was recovering at the Masonic Home at the time of the interview � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brooks, Ed (Interview outline and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brooks, Ed Description An account of the resource Ed Brooks served in the US Army between 1962 and 1964. He trained as a mechanic and worked in motor pools at bases in the US and in South Korea, where he served for a full year. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-06-26 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BrooksE Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/80b2af4d1b8354f0416c71459ff9c0f0.mp4 aafae20d1120e91616f60ca34a4bbcb8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f8f697a5a067be1365593b841a061598.pdf afc6f4f3d112bc0a63f433bbe05e11be PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Audrey Bronkema (24:45) Background Information (00:14)    Her father owned an insulation company. After she graduated high school she spent a year working for her father. (00:15) She lived in Greenville, Michigan. (00:40) She enlisted in the Army. This was inspired in part due to her love of the program M.A.S.H. (00:53) Basic Training (1:40)   She flew from Lansing Michigan to South Carolina. She was then bused to Fort Jackson, South Carolina. (1:44) One of the first things that she was taught in basic was how to march properly. (2:20) Overview of Service (2:20)             She served in Germany during the time of the Persian Gulf War (1990-1991). (2:55) She worked as a telecommunication center operator. (3:12) After basic training, Audrey moved on to her advanced MOS training at Fort Gordon in Georgia (4:03) She completed her service while serving at Fort Victors in Atlanta Georgia. (4:21) She liked serving in Germany because there was more camaraderie amongst the serving men. (4:50) She found that her time in Army was very exciting. (6:06) Audrey never recalled being fearful. She did understand, however, that she could be called into battle. (6:35) She almost always had access to a mess hall as well as off post facilities. (7:07) While in the field for training purposes, most people slept during their free time. Often times there were also pick up sports games while she served at the bases. (7:48) Audrey used letters to communicate with home. Once a week she would make a phone call as well. (9:00) Because she had shift work, she often spent holidays working. (9:20) Her service did improve her ability to work with others and increased her confidence. (9:55) Exiting Service (10:27)     The day she left the Army was very bitter sweet. She wanted a change but she enjoyed the service very much. (10:31) When the Persian Gulf War ended in February of 1991, Audrey was still in Germany. (11:08) Immediately after service she took several days relaxing. She then started looking for work (11:32) She had not taken any college courses when she got out of the military. (12:26) � She does not have much contact with most the people she served with. She is still close with a hand full of her closest friends. (12:55) Life after Service (13:40)    She worked in landscaping for 5 years in Georgia after getting out of the service. She later went to school for electronics. (13:51) Audrey then returned to Michigan and worked for a hospital. (14:11) Her service did help with the customer service part of her career. (14:30) Thoughts on Service (15:10)         It was an honor to her to be able to serve. (15:30) She thinks that it is good that the U.S. is able to provide aid to individuals who are being treated unfairly. (16:56) The only regret Audrey has about her service was that she didn’t serve longer. (18:20) She served in the Army for 4 years. (18:53) While in Germany, Audrey and her fellow soldiers were supposed to aid the war effort in the Middle East. She and her unit were put on alert to go into battle but ultimately did not. (19:50) Audrey received 2 Army achievement medals and 1 accommodation medal. (21:39) If she was younger she would rejoin the Army. She simply had so many good memories and so much pride in the uniform. (23:00) She thinks that it would be a good experience for everyone to serve simply to experience more of what the world has to offer. (24:27) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bronkema, Audrey (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bronkema, Audrey Description An account of the resource Audrey Bronkema served in the U.S. army from approximately 1989-1993. Audrey had her basic training at Fort Jackson South Carolina and was then sent to MOS training at Fort Gordon in Georgia. Audrey spent several years of her service as a telecommunication center operator in Germany. She was stationed in Germany at the time of the 1991 Gulf War, and her unit was put on alert for deployment, but the alert was cancelled once the war ended. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Przybysz, Mason (Interviewer) Vanmiddelkoop, Dana (Interviewer) McCarty, Joey (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-10-27 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BronkemaA1355V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/893b083176357ff030ecb8d9dd42c353.mp4 ab01bd25ff8e43f68375d7ee84047d35 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/01f6ac222d07e14d3bcb588152c718f2.pdf 5862a605e9a2cf467649b7ae1b4b2613 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Matthew Brong (40:55) (00:20) Background Information • • • • • • Matthew was born on September 22, 1983 in Petoskey, MI He enlisted in the Army and was in Iraq from August 2006-May 2007 Matthew graduated from high school in 2002 and went through ROTC at Michigan State University His grades were not very good, so he joined his brother in the Army in May 2004 Matthew had always wanted to join the Army and it has been a family tradition His brother was a captain, his father had been in the Air Force during Vietnam, and his grandfather was in the First Armored Division in World War II (3:10) Infantry Training • Matthew began training at Fort Benning, Georgia and was there for three months • He spent a lot of time doing push-ups, sit-ups, and running • All those in training had to have a diploma or GED and no criminal record • Matthew then went to airborne school for four weeks and then received his wings • They learned how to properly exit military air craft • He then went through the Ranger Indoctrination Program for the 75th Ranger Regiment • He broke his foot shortly after and was medically dropped from the program • Matthew was in hold over and healing for 3 months before he received another assignment (7:00) Fort Bragg February 2005 • Matthew joined the 82nd Airborne Division, which was a rival of the Ranger Regiment • Speaking of the Ranger Regiment, he noted that “they are the most heavily armed fraternity.” • They were deployed in September 2005 for hurricane relief in New Orleans • It was strange working to help victims of Hurricane Katrina because no one knew the correct procedure for stateside peace time operations (11:20) Deployed to Iraq August 2006 • Matthew was told he would be in Iraq for only 180 days, then 12 months, and it ended up being a tour of 15 months for most people in the service • It was hard for him leaving friends and family, especially his four month old son • They could communicate in Iraq through phones, internet, and mail �• • • Whenever someone was killed or injured, all modes of communication were “blacked out” until that person’s family had been contacted and notified All received 16 days of rest and recreation for their 15 month tour Matthew visited his family in March 2007 for his son’s first birthday (17:40) Injured May 26, 2007 • It had been near his three year anniversary in the Army • He had been traveling in the last of four trucks in caravan • The last truck was blown up and 3 of the 5 inside died • Matthew had multiple fractured vertebrae and had titanium rods surgically implanted into his back • He also suffered moderate to severe brain injury that resulted in memory loss • Some doctors called his problem post-traumatic amnesia and others called it retrograde amnesia • He lost about fourteen months of his memory at first, but most of it came back • After the explosion, he was flown to and aid center in a chopper • He had back surgery in a few hours and then was flown to Germany • The other survivor of the explosion had very similar injuries (23:30) Washington, DC • From Germany, Matthew was flown to Andrews Air Force Base in DC • He then was transferred to the Walter Reed Medical Center • He was there from June 1-June 27 and then sent to a rehab center in Virginia • Matthew has no memory of being in Walter Reed and had to re-learn how to walk • Matthew was in Richmond Virginia recovering for 1.5 months and then was discharged (29:25) After Being Discharged • Matthew moved to Fayetteville, NC with his wife and son • He continued to take classes to work on his speech and memory • He continued to have regular medical visits and would never be as physically strong • Matthew still suffers from short term memory loss • He can no longer be in the infantry because he can only carry half the weight • He is now back in the Army, but not doing as much physical work (32:25) Looking Back • Matthew would not do anything different even with his injury • Matthew had many positive experiences in the Army, especially while in New Orleans • He enjoyed seeing Cheney and Bush in New Orleans and received many thanks from the civilians � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brong, Matthew (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brong, Matthew Description An account of the resource Matthew Brong was in1983, received some ROTC training at Michigan State University for a while, but dropped out because he was not getting good grades. He joined the Army in 2005 and was sent to Iraq in August of 2006 with the 82 Airborne Division. May 26, 2007 Matthew was injured when the truck he was traveling in ran over a road bomb. He experienced back injuries and memory loss. He was discharged and it took him quite a while to recover from his injuries. Matthew later re-enlisted in the Army, but can no longer endure intense physical activity. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Brong, Genna (Interviewer) Riley Street Middle School (Hudsonville, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-06-02 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BrongM Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f47b4fb27fc204d1cfd802ea4435a138.mp4 7d86848d2bbe932dd222c126ce76128b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e3edb62fcf04b84826c12325a40654e5.pdf fc8361f82a887260a8a6e4630b89e4e2 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Douglas Broek (1:00:35) Background Information. (1:34)         Born in Muskegon, Michigan, November 2, 1947(1:40) He is of Dutch decent. (2:00) He was raised in Muskegon and attended at Muskegon schools until his senior year of high school (approx. 1965) when he transferred to Mona Shores High School. (2:15) He graduated from Mona Shores in 1966. (2:50) He has 2 brothers and 1 sister who all reside in Muskegon. (2:56) His mother was a stay at home mom and his father was a self employed contractor. (3:14) He was getting so close to being drafted that he decided to enlist. (3:49) He enlisted in the U.S. Air Force. He did this because it was the most intriguing of the branches. (4:00) Basic Training (4:40)             He was in Detroit to fly to San Antonio, Texas, he was trapped on the tarmac due to fog. He remembered being given the uniforms and the hair cut. (4:52) He received his basic training at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas. (5:30) His drill instructor was very fair and nice (for a drill instructor.) (5:47) His fellow recruits were very divers evolving different nationalities and social classes. (6:14) He failed to build relationships with other men stationed there due to the regimentation of basic training (6:49) Basic training lasted 6 weeks. (7:20) Basic training was his first time away from home and was difficult. (7:38) When picking up supplies that were issued to him he was told to say thank you ma’am, however he did not add ma’am at the end and received discipline for it. (8:02) Basic training entailed some classes and a lot of marching. It was also very regimented. (8:20) The dorm guard (a rotating duty) would do laundry at night because there was not time during the day. (9:10) He received rifle training on what he believed was an M16 (9:54) The men had to be able to run a mile in 4 [?]minutes to graduate. (10:19) �       All the men in his class graduated. (10:45) No one he knew showed up for his graduation. (10:57) After basic training he was given 2 weeks leave (11:05) In May of 1968 he reported to Loring Air Force Base In Maine. (11:39) Here he was associated with the security police squadron and handled many of the paper work and records in an office job. (12:16) He stayed here approx. 2 years (approx. 1967=1969) (12:55) They stayed in small army Barracks without a mess hall. Here he did manage to make friends due to his association with getting supplies and postal. (13:19) Arrival in Vietnam and service as an R&R Clerk. (13:55)              He was sent to Vietnam in June of 1969. (14:54) He was assigned to Bin Thuy Air Base (15:15) Assigned to the 637th Combat Support Group.(15:25) Served as an R&R clerk. (15:40) While there he tried to send most married men to Hawaii. Most single men went to Australia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Thailand. (16:15) Leaves for R&R lasted approx. 1 week. Transportation was by commercial aircraft courtesy of the U.S. military. (17:00) During a 1 year tour of duty men where most often allowed only 1 R&R leave. (17:30) Men with more time in country where often given first priority. (17:45) Though man socialized with him to attempt to get more R&R his name was not very widely known. (18:40) During his time in country he received an R&R of his own in Sydney Australia. (19:05) He saw much of the city; however he was required to rent clothing because he was discouraged from wearing his uniform. (20:20) His hotel was on top of the King’s Cross (21:04) He took a tour of the city and he visited the beach as well as the zoo. (21:28) Service at Bin Thuy Air Base. (22:53)     Because he worked in a Vietnamese airport there where many Vietnamese working there (22:57) The U.S. had no fighter air craft stationed there. The base was primarily used for supplies shipment. (23:04) In addition for R&R he was in charge of a hobby shop as well as a library that where at the base that were for the use of base personnel only. (24:20) Cleaning and sanitation jobs were often held by Vietnamese. (25:10) �                        One Vietnamese woman worked behind the desk at the hobby shop but was eventually caught for stealing. (25:40) There were approx. 100 men stationed at the Air Base. (26:15) He was never wounded in Vietnam. (26:37) He only carried a weapon once during the Tet Offensive [not the famous one, which was in 1968]. (26:40) The base was stationed on the Mekong River and though his side did not see any action there was visible evidence of fighting across the river. (27:10) For living quarters there were some barracks but many men lived in a hotel that was near the base. (27:40) There were not any Army personnel at this base (28:35) He covered R&R activities for personnel from all services. (28:44) R&R applications were received from mail or by hand delivery. (29:27) Was never a P.O.W.(30:06) He served on the perimeter for 2 weeks during Tet Offensive [Tet 1970]. (30:24) He did not know of any casualties in his unit. (30:53) He worked a 12 hour day and worked in 2 modular buildings. (Shipped in and assembled on site.) They did have air conditioning. (31:30) For a period, he moved into the hobby shop because of its air conditioning. (32:40) On the base they had a van and a pickup truck for movement. They had no jeeps or military vehicles (32:58) For work he had an electric typewriter and a working phone. (33:20) When calling home he was required to go to a MARS station. (33:40) He called home 3 times, one of which was due to the death of his grandfather and grandmother. (34:46) He received no special awards or honors for his duty. (35:36) Approx. every month there was a USO show. (35:47) Most shows had 5-7 people in the shows. (36:16) The shows varied in content from music, to sports, to celebrity appearances. (36:38) He saw 9 shows at Binh Thuy Air Base. (30:03) He served in country for approx. 1 year. (1969-1970) (39:13) End of in country service. (39:23)       When his term was over he went to San Francisco and then to Muskegon, Michigan. These flights were paid for with his own funds. (39:23) He arrived home in Travis Air Force Base, San Francisco. (40:10) Once in the U.S. he was sent to Fort Eglin Air Force Base in Florida (40:23) He was assigned to the Red Horse Detachment. (stationed off base.) They were responsible for heavy equipment and construction equipment. (40:43) Here he served as a clerk. (41:05) He served here for 6 months until he was given an out to finish his schooling. (Late 1970) (41:16) �  He attended Muskegon Community College (41:27) He received his early out so that he could start school. This privilege required an application be submitted. (41:41 Life in Vietnam (42:47)         In Vietnam he received letters and care packages from his mother often. (42:34) There was a post office on Binh Thuy Air Base (43:06) He recalls the food was not bad and the base did have a chow hall. (43:27) There was a shared bathroom and showers. The showers worked by having water pumped onto the roof and then having gravity push it out. (44:20) He does not recall any problem receiving supplies. Many supplies came in by C130 at night. (45:14) He had little to no pressure and stress on his job. (45:50) He worked 7AM to 7PM daily for 6 days a week. He received Sundays off. (46:33) One day he at lunch at the home of one of the Vietnamese men who worked on the base. Afterwards he had dysentery. (47:25) Post Military Life. (48:11)               He worked for Meijer Inc. as a bag boy and stocking shelves. He later applied for management training and with his schooling he was placed on retail accounting. (48:20) He had his schooling at Muskegon paid for. (49:18) He received an Associate’s degree in accounting. (49:24) He made friends in the service but he never stayed in touch with them. His unit does not hold reunions. (49:37) In 2001 he was married. (50:10) He joined the VFW in 2001. (51:06) He was latter voted Junior vice Commander of the district. (51:30) 2 years latter in 2003 he was elected Commander of the district. (51:35) He developed a lot of Friendships through his time in the VFW. (51:45) The VFW is post 702. (51:51) He knows that his time in the Air Force greatly influenced his appreciation of team work. (52:41) He retired from Meijer about 3 years ago. (approx. 2008)(53:45) He has been a volunteer at the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans for 4-5 years. (53:56) He has volunteered in the clothing room as well as the bait shop. (55:19) Document examination (56:11) �       When an individual of active military and ended there service they received this document. (56:15) It gives time overseas, medals earned, and other information. (56:48) This picture is in the lowering room at Air Force Base Maine. (57:11) This is a base news paper. This paper referred to his position and his job for R&R leave. (57:50) A Program from one of the USO shows, these were handed out explaining who was there. This one was for Base Ball players. (58:40) This is a USO pamphlet for Football players. (58:15) This was his dog tag. He was required to wear it even though he worked an office job and saw little to no action. (59:58) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broek, Douglas (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Broek, Douglas Description An account of the resource Douglas Broek grew up in Muskegon, Michigan, and enlisted in the Air Force in 1967 to stay ahead of the draft. After completing basic training in San Antonio, he spent about two years working as a clerk for a security unit at Loring Air Force Base in Maine. In June, 1969, he was sent to Vietnam. He served his tour at Binh Thuy in the Mekong Delta, and worked as the R&R clerk for all of the military units based in the area. Things were pretty quiet in his area at the time, and he picked up other odd jobs on the base just to stay busy. After returning to the US in 1970, he completed his enlistment as a clerk with a heavy equipment unit based at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Erichsen, Wallace (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Air Force Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-12-05 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BroekD1338V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fd26a8eebad9c1a801f4c2ff663ac5c2.mp4 367337c47e54a228642ebe05d13520aa https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6745d91fac51381f83baa2cec55fd397.pdf 3effc2275a751c36a7bcf2a4e4631f13 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Daniel Broe Vietnam War Interview Length: (02:33:14:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:18:00)  Broe was born in Allegan, Michigan in 1949 and has spent most of his life living in the West Michigan area; in fact, Broe’s service time was the only extended period where he did not live in West Michigan (00:00:18:00) o Broe’s parents divorced when he was very young and his mother re-married in 1955, with her new husband owning a forty-acre farm (00:00:41:00) o However, with the addition of Broe’s mother plus Broe and his brother, the farm could not longer provide for the family, so their step-father took a job working at a factory in Holland, Michigan (00:01:02:00)  Broe’s step-father eventually left the factory and found work as a truck driver (00:01:15:00)  In the meantime, Broe’s mother stayed at home (00:01:20:00) o Broe completed high school, although very reluctantly; Broe was disillusioned with high school very early on, which made it difficult for Broe to keep up with his classmates or to do anything (00:01:27:00)  While Broe was attending high school, he also had a job working at a grocery store, a job he held for about nine or ten months after he graduated from high school (00:01:43:00)  However, Broe eventually wanted to earn more money, so he took up welding and went to work for a company in Holland that made ½-ton military trailers (00:02:06:00)  Broe eventually moved on from the company that made the military trailers to a company making luxury yachts and he was working at the yacht company when he finally received his draft notice (00:02:32:00) o Broe’s draft notice came around February/March of 1969 (00:02:53:00)  When he received his draft notice, Broe had been keeping up to date on the Vietnam war via the nightly six o’clock news casts (00:03:04:00) o While Broe was still in high school, two men from Allegan went over to Vietnam and were both killed in action; because Allegan was a small town at the time, having two men killed brought the attention of every in the town (00:03:20:00) o Although not everyone in the town openly talked about the war, they were all acutely aware that there was a draft and that the young men in the town were become eligible for it (00:03:52:00) o Broe himself did not have an extensive personal view of the war or what he would do when he received his own draft notice (00:04:19:00)  The thought of going to war was, at the same time, both scary and romanticized for Broe (00:04:22:00)  Broe knew it was coming and he had determined that at the very least, he was not going to run from it (00:04:42:00) �   As well, part of Broe viewed his being drafted as one less person being drafted from Allegan who might have leanings towards family; Broe himself had always been a loner, so leaving for the military was not a problem (00:04:54:00) o On the other hand, Broe did not know too much about why exactly the United States was in Vietnam to begin with; he would see the rumors in the newspaper and hear about them from the news casts that said the United Stated was stopping the spread of communism or protecting financial interests, etc. (00:05:19:00)  Deep down, Broe knew it was probably a combination of all those things but which rumor he heard depended on which speech was being given that particular day (00:05:45:00) o At the time, the young men were all looking for different ways to avoid the draft and when Broe looked at them for himself, they did not seem practical; things such as moving to Canada did not seem reasonable, especially with the stories that the government would eventually come after them (00:06:05:00) When Broe first turned eighteen, he had to go to a physical a couple of weeks after he registered for the draft; for the physical, Broe had to go to Detroit, Michigan for two or three days (00:06:51:00) o The night before the physical, all the young men went out on the town and the bars in Detroit were not shy about allowing them to drink, even though they were underage (00:07:28:00) o Several of the men tried to get their blood pressure to the correct level so that they would not have to serve (00:07:40:00) Once Broe received his draft notice, he returned to Detroit and joined a group of around forty or fifty other men who were being screened in on that particular day (00:08:03:00) o The men were told to line up and start counting off by five, which started the biggest scramble, with everybody trying to do a really quick count and cut into the line (00:08:33:00)  Broe thought the whole sequence was ridiculous, so he stood his ground and was the number five in the line (00:08:54:00) o After everyone had counted off, the men were told to sit down and then, the names of individual recruits were called out and those recruits went into rooms that surround the large room where the group was (00:09:01:00)  Then, a group of eight names was called out at the same time, with Broe’s name being the first (00:09:25:00) o The group of eight recruits were taking from the main room into a smaller conference room, where an Army PFC (Private, First Class) eventually came in and said the eight had been selected for the Marine Corps (00:09:30:00)  The PFC asked if any of the men had a serious objection to serving in the Marine Corps and Broe, being a smart-ass, raised his hand and said, because he did not want to (00:09:51:00)  The PFC gave the men a rundown of what was going to happen and what the men would be doing for the rest of the day (00:10:10:00)  All the Army recruits were waiting for their transportation and Broe remembers looking outside and seeing a couple of other men � from Allegan outside, policing the area surrounding the building for used cigarette butts (00:10:17:00)  Broe’s group kept together and moved from room to room, where they did things such as being officially sworn into the Marines (00:10:35:00)  The one selection that the men did have was choosing between going through training at Parris Island, South Carolina or at San Diego, California (00:10:49:00)  There was a black man in the group and he said he wanted to go to Parris Island because it was closer to home; however, Broe told the man that he figured the Marines did it differently than the Army and they would not be coming home as much (00:10:57:00)  The PFC backed up Broe but said he could not split the group up; when Broe said he wanted to nice weather in San Diego, the other men in the group agreed (00:11:13:00) After they finished the initial stages, the group of eight boarded a bus that took them to the Detroit Metro airport, where they first flew to Chicago then on to San Diego, where they arrived late in the evening (00:11:38:00) o When the group first arrived at the airport, either a first sergeant or a master sergeant was there to greet the men; the sergeant ordered the men into a line, told them that when they were given the order to move, they would step off with their right foot, and they would not speak unless spoken to (00:12:27:00)  There were other people in the airport who were watching the entire sequence in awe of what was happening (00:13:01:00)  Although the sergeant did not yell, he was very firm in his orders and the men knew he meant business (00:13:10:00) o The men were marched aboard a bus and were driven to their final destination; however, it was getting dark and the men had no way of knowing where they had been or where they were going (00:13:20:00) o Once the bus arrived, another Marine stood in the doorway of the bus and told the men that when he gave the order, they would all get off the bus and woe be to the last man off the bus (00:13:53:00)  As well, any man who touched the Marine would get in trouble; however, the Marine was as wide as the doors, so there was some creative twisting by the men but inevitably, some of the men touched him (00:14:20:00)  The entire sequence was a prelude of what was going to come; no matter what the orders were, the men could follow them perfectly but there would still be something wrong (00:14:39:00) o Once the men were off the bus, they lined up and went into a building were they took off all their civilian clothes and were assigned three sets of the basic trousers, sweatshirts, and underwear; as well, the men all received the traditional Marine Corps haircut (00:14:55:00)  The whole time, the men had been instructed that they were not supposed to talk unless something was wrong, and then, they were supposed to bring it to the attention of the instructors (00:15:28:00)  Every time the men completed something, they returned to the parking lot where they had been dropped off (00:16:10:00) � o The orientation process continued through the first night and until around midday of the following day, when the decision was made that the men could have something to eat (00:16:15:00)  The men were taken to a mess hall to eat with all their equipment, although one of the men had to stand guard over it (00:16:32:00)  The men had to go through the ritual of everyone doing things as a unit, so once they had gotten their food and set their trays on the table, the men all had to sit down at the same time (00:17:12:00)  However, all the men were tired from having gone through the orientation the previous night and they ended up having to go through the process of sitting down as a group about twenty times, trying to get it right (00:17:28:00)  Once seated, the men had to sit at attention, looking straight ahead and at nothing else; then, when the orders was given to eat, the men got about one fork-full of food before being told to get out (00:17:54:00) o After “eating”, the men went back to the formation and back to the barracks to continue going through orientation, which lasted through the remainder of the afternoon (00:18:26:00)  Eventually, the men were issued linens, which made Broe suspect they would getting near beds sooner rather than later (00:18:42:00)  The men were taken to an area filled with Quonset huts; the huts were well-used and the men could tell that thousands of people had gone in and out of them (00:18:55:00)  Once in the huts, the men divided into squads and were assigned to different squad bays (00:19:23:00)  After the squads had their individual squad bays, the men received instruction about how to properly make their beds (00:19:34:00)  After they made their beds, the men went through more things, going in and out of their Quonset huts (00:19:48:00)  The men ended up going to sleep in the huts around one o’clock in the morning, the following day; apart from the “meal” they had had at midday, the men did not eat anything until breakfast (00:20:01:00) o At the time, the men were questioning why they were doing so much but there was a purpose behind every bit of it; if the men can survive the ordeal and grasp those purposes, then they were successful (00:20:31:00) At that point, the recruits’ boot camp lasted for thirteen weeks, which included two weeks spent at nearby Camp Pendleton on the rifle range, where the men went through live-fire training to qualify with their weapons (00:21:17:00) o Everyone had to qualify with the weapons; every Marine was a rifleman and their other assignments were secondary (00:21:35:00) o The daily routine of the recruits was broken down into a morning run, followed by breakfast then either doing drills and exercises or going to classes on everything from maintaining their rifles to Marine Corps history (00:21:59:00)  In the classes, the recruits were taught everything they needed to know how to do; in some cases, the recruits would be taught something but would not know the reasoning behind the lesson until later (00:22:45:00) �   Every day, the men did some form of physical training, which were usually calisthenics before the morning run; the first couple of weeks, the runs were shorter but they eventually reached their normal length of three miles (00:23:10:00) Broe believes he adjusted to life in the military better than some of the other recruits did; however, he had no illusions about what military life would be like (00:23:41:00) o Going in, Broe knew it was going to be a different experience, more physical and more demanding (00:24:09:00)  Deep down, Broe also knew that his only real purpose for going through the training was to become the rifleman that every Marine recruit eventually became (00:24:18:00)  Broe had no illusions of what his experiences would be like and many of the things he expected would eventually happen ended up actually happening (00:24:28:00) During his time in boot camp, Broe actually ended up training with two different platoons and in one of the platoons, there was a particular recruit who felt the full wrath of the drill instructors; everything the recruit did was wrong and he would always be singled out for ridicule by the drill instructors (00:24:45:00) o The platoon commander was very extreme in the training and would constantly pick out the single recruit and it eventually reached the point that the commander caused the recruit to be physically hurt (00:25:46:00) o At one point, the recruits were using stamps to stamp their names into their uniforms; the way the ink pads were set up, it was possible to get ink along the sides of the stamp, which would leave lines on the uniform and cause trouble for any recruit who did that (00:26:22:00)  While they were doing the stamping, the recruits were sitting on their foot lockers on the road outside their Quonset hut, with a 3’ or 4’ platform off to the side where the instructor would sit (00:27:02:00)  The one recruit screwed up the stamp and got lines, so he was called up to the platform to have his uniform examined and the drill instructor ended up kicking the recruit in the chest (00:27:21:00)  At night, just before the recruits went to bed, they would stand on their foot lockers and a drill instructors would walk behind them and tap their lower backs; if a recruit felt he needed to go to sick bay the next morning, he would say “yes sir” when the instructor touched his back (00:27:58:00)  The one recruit was in another Quonset hut but on the night of the stamping incident, the other recruits knew he was hurting from the drill instructor’s kick (00:28:37:00)  The recruit went to the sick bay the next morning and although the other men did not know exactly what happened, the rumors were that the drill instructor’s kick had cracked the recruit’s breastplate and that a Navy doctor was investigating the incident (00:28:46:00) o About two weeks later, the drill instructor who had kicked the recruit disappeared as well (00:29:13:00)  Broe ran into the drill instructor later, while in his staging unit to go overseas, and the instructor was also on his way to Vietnam (00:29:28:00) �    Although the other drill instructors never let up on the recruits, they were not allowed to physically touch the recruits; however, there was no way anyone could really enforce that type of a rule (00:29:58:00) o The instructors would get right in the recruit’s face to yell at them; if they looked both ways before hand, then the recruit knew that the instructor was going to hit them and most of the time, it was only a punch in the stomach (00:30:16:00)  However, if a recruit tightened up when the instructor was about to hit him, then things got real bad of the recruit (00:30:35:00) There were a couple of recruits who thought they were harder than the drill instructors; however, there is nothing harder than a Marine Corps drill instructor (00:31:01:00) o The instructors would not tell the recruits to do anything that they themselves could not do ten times better and if the recruits butted heads with them, the recruits were going to lose (00:31:23:00) o For some of the recruits, it took a long time to get that lesson through their skull and most of the time, it took the intervention of the rest of the recruits to tell the individual to stop; whenever one recruit would need punishment, the rest of the platoon was punished as well (00:31:34:00) At one point during the training, each recruit would either spend a week doing guard duty around the San Diego depot or they would be on mess duty (00:32:08:00) o Broe’s squad pulled mess duty and one day, the recruits were eating spaghetti for their evening meal; the spaghetti sauce was cooked in massive containers and then carried up to the line and dumped into serving vessels, where it was handed out to the recruits going through line (00:32:20:00)  Broe was serving sauce to the recruits and did not know a new container of sauce had been brought up; he turned around, fell, his back arched over the container and he pulled something in his lower back (00:32:52:00)  Broe was sent to the sick bay, where doctors took x-rays and determined that Broe needed to take it easy for a couple of weeks (00:33:13:00) o Broe did not know how he was going to be able to do that because after the week of either mess duty or guard duty, the recruits were headed up to the rifle range at Camp Pendleton (00:33:26:00)  The rest of the platoon continued on to the rifle range but Broe had to stay in the medical rehab platoon in San Diego for two weeks (00:33:40:00) o While with the rehab platoon, Broe was assigned to stand guard in the motivational platoon barracks every night; although he was supposed to be rehabilitating, Broe had to stand in a doorway every night and watch the ten to twelve recruits in the platoon, the hard to crack cases (00:34:01:00)  Broe was given a night stick and told that if anyone escaped, despite having a back injury, he was supposed to chase after them (00:34:40:00)  However, standing guard showed Broe all the stuff the recruits in the motivational platoon went through; until then, Broe thought he had a good idea what the disciplinary aspect of the Marine Corps was but when he finished the guard duty, he was convinced the best thing to get back to the training, regardless of how his back felt (00:34:55:00) Once he had healed, Broe was assigned to another training platoon, who he stayed with until he finished his training (00:35:30:00) � o For the most part, the drill instructors kept the training similar for all the training platoons (00:35:52:00) o Broe believes that when he joined the new training platoon, he had a fresher attitude (00:36:11:00) In order to officially graduate from boot camp, all the recruits had to go through a standardized physical training test and Broe did a lot better during the test than he had done while training with his previous training platoon (00:36:24:00) o The various drill instructors were rated based on how well their training platoon did as a whole; however, not every recruit could do every part of the training to a high degree (00:36:44:00)  Broe held his own in most every part of the training but excelled in the 30’ rope climb and sit-ups, at least in repetitions per minute (00:37:01:00)  During the standardized test, clerks would keep track of the recruit’s progress and during his platoon’s test, there were apparently some recruits who were weak at the rope climb, because Broe ended up climbing three times, once for himself and once each for two other recruits (00:37:19:00) o The same thing, recruits qualifying for other recruits, happened on the rifle range, which amazed Broe and was the first time he noticed that there was a slight illusion regarding the training; the drill instructors were not actually doing what they said they were doing (00:39:01:00)  Yes, all of the recruits would be riflemen but in some cases, the recruits were not earning that distinction (00:39:20:00)  Fortunately, Broe did well and qualified as “expert” on both the prequalification tests and the actual qualification tests (00:39:30:00)  Out of a possible two-hundred-and-twenty-five points, Broe scored two-hundred-and-twenty-two; the only deductions came on the seated portion of the test, where Broe did not have himself positioned correctly, which caused him to rock back and he could not recover fast enough (00:40:03:00)  Once Broe got back to the 500 meter line was when he did the test for three other recruits (00:40:35:00)  Broe fired his own series and hit them all accurately; then, he was told to fire for another recruit, who barely had any points and needed Broe to fire “expert” from 500 meters just to qualify at the basic level (00:40:42:00)  Although Broe was not sure if he could continue firing at the “expert”-level, he did and managed to qualify all three recruits, who were extremely grateful and made Broe a valuable pick-up for the platoon (00:41:06:00) o In boot camp, if a platoon picked up an individual recruit. such as Broe, there was often suspicion about the new recruit and in Broe’s case, he never really connected with the other recruits until they finished qualifying at the rifle range (00:41:24:00) �   When Broe arrived at the new platoon, the other recruits came right out and said they did not want any troublemakers in the platoon (00:41:57:00)  Although Broe knew why the recruits said that, he would have suspected that they at least give him a little bit of time to prove himself (00:42:05:00)  When the recruits were qualifying on the rifle range, they used the M-14 rifle; Broe did not fire an M-16 rifle until just before he went into staging for deployment to Vietnam (00:42:27:00)  However, even that brief period with the M-16 was only meant to somewhat familiarize the recruits with the rifle (00:42:35:00) Once they finished their training at San Diego, Broe and the other recruits went to Camp Pendleton and were placed in an Infantry Training Regiment (ITR) (00:42:54:00) o The training with the ITR consisted of field exercises and training in basic infantry maneuvers (00:43:09:00) o Nothing really exceptional happened until the very end of the training, when Broe, having qualified expert, was given the choice of being able to go to either sniper school or recon training (00:43:23:00)  During the ITR training, Broe had seen the training at the recon school and it looked like all it consisted of was running and carrying heavy equipment; instead, he opted for the sniper training, although that training turned out to be nearly the same thing (00:43:42:00) o The one major difference was that the sniper training concentrated more on the specific weapon, a Remington 700 sniper rifle with a 3x9 Redfield scope mounted on it (00:44:08:00)  Broe qualified “expert” with the rifle from 600 meters in the prone position and earned his sniper rating (00:44:23:00) The sniper training lasted for an additional thirty days; the actual name of the training was scout/sniper school and the recruits learned how to be a forward observer to call in artillery and air strikes, how to do field first aid, land navigation and all the critical things the recruits needed to do to effective work by themselves (00:44:38:00) o During the training, Broe was fortunate because the instructors were receiving information from Vietnam about the situations scout/snipers were facing; as the recruits went through a specific aspect of training, the instructors would tell them what situations happened in Vietnam and how the training applied (00:45:28:00) o As well, most of the instructors themselves had already served in Vietnam; if the instructor held a higher rank, such as an E-8 or and E-9, then the recruits were not certain what exactly the instructor’s assignment had been in Vietnam but when the recruits would break down into small groups, those instructors were often E4s who had just returned from Vietnam (00:46:19:00) o By working with the veteran instructors, the recruits gained a lot of confidence; they became attune to the situations (00:47:18:00)  Although the recruits knew there was a chance someone might not come back, that was something they never dwelled on or even thought about to a large extent (00:47:39:00) �   When situations developed in the field, Broe could quickly analyze what was happening, decide what the possible outcomes might be and make a decision based off his analysis (00:47:55:00)  As well, training with the instructors made the recruits acutely aware of what would be expected of them and how they needed to perform when things happened (00:48:11:00) Once he finished the training at Camp Pendleton, Broe returned home on a thirty-day leave in October 1969; however, Broe was antsy and by the time the thirty days were over, he was ready to go back (00:48:28:00) o It really was a love-hate relationship with the Marines; the whole time he was in training, Broe kept thinking about how he wanted to go home on leave but once he was on leave, he was ready to go back (00:48:46:00) o For the most part, it was hard for Broe to re-connect with the people back home in Allegan (00:48:59:00)  As it just so happened, there was another man from Allegan who enlisted just after Broe was drafted and Broe met up with the man while he was with the ITR at Camp Pendleton (00:49:03:00)  Broe did not talk too much with the man after encountering him in the mess hall but when Broe returned home on leave, the other man came back around the same time (00:49:50:00) Before actually deploying over to Vietnam, when Broe returned to California, he was placed back in the group of scout/snipers he had trained with (00:50:28:00) o At the time, the Americans were trying to institute the process of Vietnaminization, where the South Vietnamese military would have greater responsibility for the fighting, so there was a question of whether or not Broe’s group would even deploy to Vietnam (00:50:52:00)  However, the men had been through the training and although they were headed for something hazardous, they still wanted to go (00:51:15:00) o There was a delay in the deployment of the men, which made it Christmas and Broe went to visit his brother, who he had not seen since Broe was a freshman in high school; Broe’s brother had been a sophomore but decided to quit school and enlist in the Navy (00:51:32:00)  However, the brother was stationed in Vallejo, California, which was well outside the five-hundred mile limit the men were allowed to travel in while on leave (00:51:56:00)  Nevertheless, Broe went to Vallejo for Christmas and still managed to make it back in time for formation (00:52:04:00) o When the men formed formation after Christmas, they had news that they would deploy to Vietnam, although it was still two weeks off (00:52:14:00)  They actually started the process of deploying Broe’s group around the second or third week of January (00:52:28:00)  During the twenty or so days that the men were waiting in January, there was very little for them to do; every day, the men would fall out for a headcount then immediately go to the bulletin board to see whether anything had been posted (00:53:33:00) �  If nothing had been posted, the men were allowed to go off the base and into town (00:53:50:00) When the day finally came where they did deploy, Broe and the other Marines were loaded on a chartered commercial airplane (00:54:10:00) o After leaving California, the flight first went to Hawaii for half-an-hour as the airplane re-fueled before flying to Okinawa; in Okinawa, the men packed all their equipment into duffle bags (00:54:40:00) Vietnam Deployment (00:55:33:00)  The Marines stayed in Okinawa for about four days before flying into Da Nang, where they were taken off the airplane and herded into an in-processing center (00:55:33:00) o When they arrived at the in-processing center, it was reminiscent of that first day in Detroit for Broe; someone was calling off names and other Marines in the group started going in different directions (00:56:10:00)  Broe’s group of scout/snipers was split up and assigned to several different units; everyone’s name but Broe and another sniper were called and at the end, those two were called up and told they were joined the 1st Recon, which Broe had tried to avoid (00:56:17:00) o Broe was official assigned to the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion (1st Recon) as a scout/sniper (00:56:52:00)  When Broe arrived in Vietnam, 1st Recon was stationed on Camp Reasoner, which was located at the base of a mountainous ridgeline to the west of Da Nang (00:57:07:00) o Later, Broe found out the reason the camp was built where it was, tucked in close to the ridgeline, was because the Americans controlled the ridgeline and if the enemy tried to launch a mortar or rocket against the base, the mortars or rockets impacted along the ridgeline (00:57:26:00) o 1st Recon consisted of five combat infantry companies, each with four platoons, and a headquarters company; each company was self-sufficient and supplied its own support and medical services (00:57:45:00) o To get to Reasoner, Broe rode out from Da Nang in the back of an open deuceand-a-half truck (00:58:28:00)  The whole experience was somewhat surreal for Broe; he was going into a combat environment and he did not know what to expect (00:58:39:00)  When Broe and the other Marines first got off the plane in Da Nang, there was a long line leading around the airplane and the men were told to walk on the outside of the line (00:58:45:00) o The men figured that it was a war zone and that any moment, they would be given a rifle and dragged off the a battle (00:58:56:00)  When catching the ride out to Reasoner, the truck Broe rode in drove down the center of the road and the driver drove the truck like there was no tomorrow (00:59:11:00)  Getting from the airport in Da Nang out to Reasoner took about twenty minutes to half-an-hour (01:00:01:00) o Reasoner had a perimeter surrounding it consisting of concertina wire and guard bunkers, with Marines standing watch day and night (01:00:16:00) � However, most of the guards came out of the headquarters unit because the commanders wanted the men in the actual recon companies to be able to go on combat patrols and perform operations (01:00:29:00) o Surprisingly, when Broe arrived at Reasoner, everyone on the base was very open, albeit, a little guard; the others wanted to know where Broe was from and whether he had a critical MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) (01:00:43:00)  At that point, Broe spent most of his time watching the Marines who were already on the base; he watched how they put stuff together, how they organized their equipment, etc. (01:01:12:00)  When Broe first arrived at the camp, he did not have a weapon; he had to go to the armory and draw one (01:01:31:00)  It was late afternoon when Broe arrived at Reasoner and the first thing he was assigned was a sleeping area; he organized everything in his area, including being assigned bed linens, before going to the armory for his weapon (01:01:37:00) o Once Broe arrived at the camp, the commanders assigned him to 2nd Platoon, Delta Company (01:02:13:00)  Once he had his assignment, Broe went into the platoon’s assigned area and inside his hooch, there were ten or twelve cots arranged so that each Marine had some personal space (01:02:25:00)  For Broe, it was difficult to initially set up his personal space because most everything that had belonged the previous Marines had been taken out (01:02:54:00)  Broe never asked what happened to the previous Marine; everyone just acted as if the Marine had rotated home (01:03:06:00) o If there was more to the story, then that would come out at a later time (01:03:16:00)  The first day was spent walking around, getting to know the other personnel and the layout of the camp (01:03:27:00)  Both Broe and the Marine he arrived with went to the battalion aid station to register; that, in the event something happened to either man, the personnel at the aid station would have all the relevant information to treat them (01:03:48:00) o On the second day, Broe and all the other Marines who had just arrived at the company within the past day or two were taken to an area below the hill the camp was built and started a session of training in how to properly operate a radio in the field (01:04:09:00)  Broe assumes the session was to make sure all the new arrivals were on the same page when it came to operating the radios; having gone through radio training extensively at the scout/sniper school, Broe already knew everything he needed to do (01:04:37:00)  Some of the other Marines, those who had just gone through the regular training, had seen a radio operate but they did not know how exactly everything worked (01:04:57:00) � During the session, each Marine got on the radio to call in practice fire missions; as well, they were shown the correct sequence for properly encrypting their messages (01:05:07:00)  The encryption capabilities amazed Broe; every day, the same encryptions were used throughout the entire country and by every branch of the military (01:05:28:00)  When Broe first learned how to encrypt the message, the military was using one method but halfway through Broe’s tour, the military changed the method (01:06:04:00) o For the second method, military personnel used a small device with a letter wheel and a legend beneath that; the way the wheel would be set determined the encryption of the message (01:06:20:00)  Personnel would line up the letters for a specific day and setting those letters would set corresponding letters for all the letters and numbers that the personnel might need to use (01:06:40:00)  Using the wheel method was easy once the method was explained to the men (01:06:57:00)  The radio training session lasted for about four or five days (01:07:03:00)  One thing Broe observed once he had arrived at the base was the weeks were no longer something they kept track off (01:07:08:00)  There were no breaks granted for certain days; for example, although there were religious services offered on the weekend, more often than not, there was something else that the Marines needed to do or wanted to do (01:07:20:00) o It took about four weeks after Broe arrived at the camp be he went into the field for the first time (01:07:47:00)  When he finally did go into the field, being the new guy, Broe had to carry the back-up radio and extra batteries for the primary radio (01:07:56:00)  Broe had to set up carrying the radio and spare batteries first; then he could determine where he would carry his own supplies, such as food and ammunition (01:08:06:00)  However, there was someone there who helped Broe and showed him the best way to set everything up (01:08:18:00)  One problem the men encountered was that the pouches on their web gear were meant to carry M-14 magazines but by that point, the men were carrying M-16s (01:08:28:00) o Because the M-16 magazines were so small compared to the M-14 magazines, the men were able to care four M-16 magazines per pouch, as well as another one tucked under the pouch’s flap (01:08:35:00)  For the most part, any developments in equipment went to the Army first; however, from what Broe understands, the Army is mainly responsible for said developments (01:08:57:00) �  During the first month, before he went into the field, Broe pulled a couple of bunker watches; however, once he actively started going on patrol, pulling watch stopped (01:09:36:00)  Broe’s unit would go into the field anywhere from six to seven days and most of the time, the unit operated in teams of around five Marines (01:09:46:00) o This meant Marines were constantly subbing in and out of the teams, with the only constant usually being the squad leader and the primary radioman (01:10:03:00) For the moment he was told he was going into the field for the first time, Broe was on edge; he kept thinking about whether he had his equipment organized properly in case something went wrong (01:10:37:00) o Broe kept going through the equipment, re-arranging different parts, making sure there were not pinch points, etc. (01:10:55:00) o Before being sent out, the men on the patrol would go to the mess hall but the first time Broe was set to go on a patrol, he was not able to eat anything (01:11:14:00) o The patrol needed to move quickly, which meant the Marines traveled light and two hours into his first patrol, it was evident to Broe why 1st Recon trained the way they did (01:11:32:00)  The men were trained to stay out of sight and avoid contact with the enemy at all costs (01:11:54:00)  If the men did encounter something, they would normally move away from it, not to retreat but to get to a position where they could observe the situation and figure out what the enemy was doing (01:12:03:00)  Ideally, if the enemy grouped in a area, the patrol would call an artillery or air strike on the area (01:12:15:00) o For the most part, the patrols would be flown into an area by helicopter because the areas where they would operate, mostly looking for enemy re-supply routes, were some distance away from Reasoner (01:12:35:00)  Where the actual re-supply routes, the Ho Chi Minh Trail, were was anybody’s guess because the routes were all over the place; it was a very complex system and it was amazing to Broe how the enemy were able to do it (01:12:50:00)  For the most part, most of the things the enemy did looked like they were from the stone age yet the re-supply routes were very well coordinated; the enemy knew what their capabilities were and what they could and could not do (01:13:04:00) o During Broe’s first patrol, everything was pretty much quiet (01:13:13:00)  However, the commanders wanted the new men to become acclimated to the various situations, so Broe suspects that his first patrol was sent to an area where another patrol had been through recently and found nothing of significance (01:13:23:00)  Broe and the new Marines were expected to observe and pick up what they needed to do on a day-in/day-out basis (01:13:42:00) o However, it did not take long, probably Broe’s third patrol, before things went askew from the moment the patrol arrived in the designated area (01:13:58:00) �o A patrol’s method for moving around in the field usually depended on the route the point man picked out (01:14:17:00)  If the point man felt secure enough to work on a trail, then the patrol would use the trail for a little bit; however, most of the time, the men would stay off the trails and would move parallel to them (01:14:21:00)  However, considerations also had to be taken by the men when moving parallel to a trail; for example, that method tended to be a lot noisier than moving on the trail (01:14:43:00) o During the patrols, the men were forced to carry their own food; however, the food they carried often tended to be very simple (01:15:02:00)  The C-Rations usually consisted of a 4oz can containing an “entrée”, a 4oz can of fruit, an a small tin of pound cake (01:15:07:00)  For the most part, the men on the patrols would carry food that did not need to be heated up (01:15:25:00)  As Broe’s tour progressed, the military started experimenting more with the use of dehydrated rations for the personnel; carrying a single pack of dehydrated rations for each day was a lot lighter than carrying around a bunch of can goods (01:15:34:00)  However, by and large, the physical conditioning of the Marines who went on the patrols was so high that the Marines could go all day without eating, have a can of peaches at night, and be perfectly fine (01:15:56:00)  Once they were finished with whatever they ate for the meal, the men would bury the empty cans and garbage, mostly to make sure the enemy did not know where they were and because carrying around and empty came tended to make noise (01:16:06:00)  The men also had to learn how to eat out of the can without hitting the side of the can with their utensil, which would often make a dull, “clunking” sound (01:16:17:00) o Being stealthy was of the utmost importance for the Marines when they were out on patrol; however, there were some men who tended to go a little bit overboard in that regard (01:16:28:00)  Broe remembers that one of the Marines was so noise conscious that he would not turn his head because he thought it would make a noise; instead, the Marine just rolled his eyes from side to side (01:16:38:00) o On occasion, because he was a sniper, Broe would stay in a specific place for a short period of time to watch a specific target; however, this only happened a couple of times (01:17:21:00)  There were several other times when Broe was part of a patrol and was armed with a sniper rifle but never had to use said rifle in a traditional sniper role (01:17:43:00)  When Broe was armed with a sniper rifle on a patrol, he was told that the patrol was looking for a specific individual; intelligence would say a specific NVA officer would be in a certain area at a certain time and the patrol would happen to be in the same area (01:18:04:00)  The men were supposed to keep their eyes open for the NVA officer and if an opportunity presented itself and it was practical, � Broe had orders to engage; however, the decision of whether Broe might engage the target ultimately remained with the squad leader commanding the patrol (01:18:28:00)  Sometimes, the patrol was under specific orders to find someone and other times, it was a target of opportunity and if the men felt they could take it, then they could take it (01:18:55:00)  During the sniper patrols, Broe would only carry the sniper rifle and a lot of the rifle ammunition (01:19:06:00)  Before Broe would take the shot at the target, the other Marines on the patrol would be strategically positioned; the other Marines would know the shot was coming and their only assignment was watching their assigned sector (01:19:35:00) When Broe went out on his third patrol, he was carrying the secondary radio, plus an M16 (01:20:02:00) o During the patrol, the men ended up accidentally walking right into the middle of enemy base camp, not realizing they were in a base camp until they walked into the middle of it (01:20:09:00) o When the men realized they were in the base camp, they hit the ground and began crawling along the trail (01:20:23:00)  As the men crawled down the trail, Broe remembers looking up and seeing fresh dirt bordering the bunkers the enemy had dug along a ridgeline further up the trail (01:20:28:00) o Strangely, there was nobody in the base camp, so the men crept through very slowly and eventually reached the other side (01:20:40:00) o Once the men were far enough away from the camp, they plotted the entire camp and prepared to call in a fire mission (01:20:58:00) o However, as the men were waiting for the squad leader and radioman to call in the fire mission, they heard the sound of voices coming down the trail; the two enemy were talking quite loudly, which indicated that they had no idea the Marines were in the area (01:21:06:00) o When one of the Marines in the platoon started getting short-time, the platoon sergeant started messing with him, suggesting they do things that could potentially end badly (01:21:37:00)  As the two enemy soldiers walked past, the platoon sergeant suggested they grab one as a prisoner (01:21:53:00)  However, although the short-timer said it was a bad idea, both men moved like they were going to grab one of the enemy; meanwhile, Broe moved to a position further down to trail to block it off in case the other two did make a move to grab one of the soldiers (01:21:03:00)  All of a sudden, everybody was whispering for Broe to come back, which he did (01:22:07:00) o Broe does not know if the two enemy soldiers on the trail heard the platoon talking or saw movement but all of sudden, the base camp became very active; from where the men sat, it almost looked as if the enemy was trying to move forces to flank their position (01:22:16:00) � The men were not certain if the enemy knew the men were there but they were sure something was up (01:22:39:00) o The men waited until it was almost night before the platoon sergeant called in and requested and extraction, if at all possible; the terrain around the Marines’ position made landing a helicopter impossible but the area overhead was open, making a ladder extraction possible (01:22:44:00)  As the men climbed up the ladder, they took fire from all the surrounding enemy forces (01:23:23:00)  Climbing the ladder was a bit nerve-wracking for the men because it was a long climb to reach the helicopter (01:23:45:00)  To do a rope extraction, a rope ladder is rolled up in the back of a CH-46 helicopter and once the helicopter is hovering over the extraction area, the ladder is kicked out (01:23:57:00)  Once the ladder is on the ground, the helicopter slowly pulls up, so there is just enough ladder left on the ground for all the men to hook onto; as soon as all the men were hooked on, the helicopter lifted the ladder up (01:24:11:00)  Broe has a lot of admiration for the pilots, who hovered in the area, which made them a perfect target for anyone on the ground as the men hooked onto the ladder (01:24:40:00)  The harness the men used to hook to the ladder with was the first thing they put on over their uniform; once the ladder was there, it was only a matter of getting the D-ring out to hook on (01:25:08:00)  From the time the helicopter arrived until it finally pulled out, it was around four minutes, if not more (01:25:29:00)  Although that may not seem like a long time, it was an eternity for the pilots to be hover there (01:25:33:00)  There were machine gunners on the helicopter and they were peppering the area while the helicopter hovered over the extraction site; a .50-caliber had a way of keeping the enemy’s head down (01:25:45:00) o Broe’s first thought when the platoon sergeant suggested a ladder extraction was apprehension; not only was the helicopter exposed while hovering but then, the enemy knew where the men were (01:26:27:00) Battalion Re-structuring (01:27:10:00)  During Broe’s tour with 1st Recon, he started with Delta Company but around September 1970, there were more rumors of a down-sizing of the combat forces in Vietnam and the five combat companies were reconstructed to two re-enforced companies, while any Marine who was short-timer, along with the remaining parts of the battalion, rotated back to the United States (01:27:10:00) o Back in the United States, it was reported that a battalion had been withdrawn when in reality, the majority of the Marines in the unit remained in Vietnam (01:28:07:00)  During several times, the Marines became involved in firefights and skirmishes with enemy forces (01:28:51:00) �o Around mid-July, Broe was part of a mission into Laos and from the moment the men set down, the enemy knew the men were there (01:28:54:00)  The mission devolved into a constant run, with the men moving fast, trying to get away from the LZ, and avoiding open area because the enemy assumed that is where the men would go for extraction (01:29:07:00)  The men knew within a couple of hours that the patrol was not going to last for six or seven days, so they kept moving at a steady pace; however, they kept encounter different pockets of enemy soldiers (01:29:28:00)  The patrol was just before Broe’s 21st birthday and for a while during the patrol, he was not sure if he would live to see it (01:30:04:00)  The men ran for three days steady before they finally reached an area where they could be extracted (01:30:10:00)  This extraction was the men’s first interaction with a helicopter squadron nicknamed “the Purple Foxes” (01:30:23:00)  The pilots in the squadron were very good; during the extraction, the pilot came in so fast that when the helicopter landed, it bounced, but the tail was open, Broe and the other men were waiting, and they were able to hustle on (01:30:29:00)  The men did not know what the helicopters would encounter when the came in because they knew there was enemy in the surrounding area, so as one of the helicopters came in, another hovered around the extraction zone while a pair of Cobra gunships fired into the ground around the extraction zone (01:30:47:00)  When the men would look for a possible extraction zone, they would first look at their map for a possible location then head towards it; however, in most of the cases, the possible locations did not work because of the terrain (01:31:40:00)  Over the three days, the men scoped out six or eight different places that could have worked (01:32:03:00)  During the night, the men slept in shifts, with there always being at least to men awake at all times (01:32:14:00)  On the second night, the enemy launched a probing action against the men’s position; however, the men did not want to have to move in the dark, so they made believe they were not there (01:32:27:00) o The enemy was making so much noise that the men knew exactly where they were (01:33:01:00) o During the patrols where the men did have contact with the enemy, the men were not able to gather much in the way of usable information (01:33:26:00)  They did not want to risk the enemy getting too close just foe the sake of being able to identify uniform markings; as well, the enemy would often stop whatever they were doing to chase the men (01:33:26:00) o During one patrol, the men could hear an enemy convoy in the distance but by the time they got into the area, there was nothing around (01:33:57:00)  In those situations, it did make the men wondering in they were being the ones who were checked out (01:34:20:00) �  o Although his official records say Broe went on twenty-seven different patrols, over time, he lost count of how many he did while on his tour (01:34:48:00) o During Broe’s entire tour, his squad never took a single casualty; however, other sections of the unit did lose some men (01:35:02:00)  In November 1970, an entire fire team was lost during an extraction accident (01:35:12:00)  A helicopter came and in successfully extracted the team but accidentally flew into the side of a mountain (01:35:17:00)  For the next six to eight days, teams would go out and try to get into the area where the helicopter crashed (01:35:24:00) o The weather had initially caused the crash and it hampered efforts by the other teams to get into the area (01:35:35:00) o Eventually two teams were prepped to go into the area; although the odds of there being survivors was small, the men had no way of knowing for sure (01:35:52:00) o The men in the hooch next to Broe’s were the ones who actually found the fire team; Broe’s team had followed in another helicopter in case there needed to be a bigger perimeter while the other men worked (01:36:20:00) o The men carried black and white cameras with them on patrols to take pictures of any interesting intelligence; the commanders insisted the men take the pictures using a black and white camera and if someone took pictures with a color camera, the commanders did not want them (01:37:01:00) o Although he was near the same place multiple times, as far as Broe can remember, his team was never sent to the same place twice (01:37:28:00)  However, that does not mean someone else had been there before because on several occasions, it felt to Broe like someone else had already been through an area (01:37:44:00) o For the most part, the North Vietnamese soldiers that Broe and his team saw were from a distance; however, the team was close enough to identify markings on the soldiers’ uniforms (01:37:58:00) o It was impressive how much firepower could be put into a specific area but it was equally impressive when someone would stick their head out off the ground once the attack had stopped (01:38:29:00) Over the course of Broe’s tour, there was a fairly steady turnover amongst the other Marines in the unit (01:38:47:00) o Between the normal rotations and the restructuring of the unit, Broe ended up finishing his tour with a different group of Marines than who he had started his tour with (01:38:51:00) o The Marines who he had started his tour with had either already rotated home or ended up in one of the other fire teams after the unit’s restructuring (01:39:05:00) Apart from Reasoner, the Marines from the battalion were also stationed on a hill to the south of Da Nang to provide security for an NOD (Night Observation Device) team also stationed on the hill (01:39:37:00) �o The NOD team used a bulky device that mounted an early, primitive version of a night vision scope, called a “Starlight” scope; the team had the assignment of watching the territory surrounding the hilltop (01:39:50:00) o To the west of the hilltop were the Que Son mountains and on several occasions, while his team was stationed on the NOD hill to provide security, Broe would go into the mountains for a day or two to do traditional sniper mission (01:40:07:00)  Because people lived in those areas, there was constant movement and picking out movement that represented an actual military target was difficult to do (01:40:27:00)  As well, Broe had mixed emotions about doing the missions as a result of the first time his team was stationed on the hill (01:40:37:00)  Before that first mission, Broe had checked out a sniper rifle and before the team left, the lieutenant leading the mission decided he wanted to fire the sniper rifle (01:40:46:00) o The rifle had yet to be sighted in but Broe figured he could get the sight in the ballpark (01:41:11:00)  Below the hill, there were people in what the men had been told was a free fire zone and the lieutenant, with Broe beside him using a spotter scope, eventually picked a target somewhere at the bottom of the hill and fired (01:41:17:00)  Broe saw the round hit and he asked the lieutenant if the lieutenant knew what he had been aiming at; however, the lieutenant said he had not see the round hit (01:41:35:00)  Bore had a rough idea of where the lieutenant was aiming, a small clump of black dirt, so Broe began readjusting the rifle’s sights from where he saw the bullet land to clump of dirt (01:41:50:00)  There were three Vietnamese near the clump of dirt and they alternated between waving frantically and squatting down to do something (01:42:15:00) o Squads had gone off the hill before and run into enemy booby-traps, so the team did not know what exactly the Vietnamese individuals were doing (01:42:24:00)  Meanwhile, the lieutenant was trying to fire warning shots to try and push the Vietnamese away from the area (01:42:35:00)  With the last bullet he fired, the lieutenant ended up shooting one of the Vietnamese, a woman, and killing her (01:43:25:00) o When the round hit the woman, Broe had been watching through the spotter scope and he said, “got one”; however, the lieutenant said that he had not trying to hit anyone (01:43:41:00)  The exchange conflicted Broe; he had gone through all the training and was even good enough to get the rifle to work without even shooting but the lieutenant made it seem as though it was a bad thing (01:43:50:00)  As it turned out, some ARVN (South Vietnamese Army) soldiers were stationed on the hill at the same time, they reported the � incident, there was a trial during July and August, and the lieutenant was acquitted after he convinced the tribunal that he had not been intentionally aiming at the Vietnamese (01:44:15:00) o However, the lieutenant was the type of officer where he did not tell the tribunal that Broe had been adjusting the sights on the rifle after every shot (01:44:52:00) o Broe was eventually called to the witness stand and the lieutenant’s defense team tried to get Broe to tell what he had been doing while spotting the rounds (01:45:08:00)  Although he did not realize it at the time, the one defense lawyer was trying to get Broe to admit that he had been adjusting the sights (01:45:28:00) o Although the lieutenant ended up being acquitted, Broe later found out that the defense team had been trying to get Broe to take the blame, but the lieutenant did not want that to happen (01:45:48:00)  Whenever the defense of prosecution asked Broe a question, Broe would look at the lieutenant, who would slight nod if Broe could continue (01:46:01:00)  The entire situation was hard on Broe because he had been sent to Vietnam to do a specific job but was then told he would not be able to do said job (01:46:42:00)  There was a sergeant stationed on the hill at the time who called Broe bloodthirsty and tried to demonize Broe to the rest of the men; Broe does believe that some of the men had a distrust of him as a result of the whole incident (01:47:04:00)  When the men went on patrols, it was strictly business but Broe always wondered in the back of his mind, if all the chips were laid down, how many men would actually help him (01:47:34:00) Toward the end of Broe’s tour, after the battalion had been restructured, the men began doing more patrols near populated areas, especially in the western part of the Que Son mountains (01:48:19:00) o From what Broe observed, the enemy re-supply efforts that the men had seen on earlier patrols had been and was being used by the enemy to help fortify the mountains (01:48:50:00)  Actually catching the enemy re-supply was difficult because the re-supply trails came in from all directions and it was very sporadic timing for when the re-supplies would be brought in (01:49:04:00) o The men would be inserted into the mountains, patrol around for a time, then walk to one of the Marine units that had occupied nearby positions for a re-supply; once re-supplied, the men went back into the filed (01:49:24:00) o Although there were Vietnamese civilians working in the valleys and the men knew the Vietnamese civilians were coming into the mountains, they never encountered any civilians (01:49:50:00) �   Broe went on an R&R in September; while he was gone, that was when the battalion reorganized, so when Broe came back, his old hooch was empty and all his stuff had been moved to another hooch (01:50:23:00) o For the R&R, Broe ended up going to Taiwan for seven days; Broe went to Taiwan because it was one of the only places that was available when he came in for his R&R (01:50:38:00)  Prior to the R&R, the men had known that when the rides came in, if the men were in the field, then the Marines serving at the base had first pick and often chose the prime destinations, such as Australia (01:51:03:00)  Broe had no desire to take his R&R to Bangkok in Thailand because it did not sound interesting to him; Taiwan, on the other hand, did sound interesting to Broe (01:51:18:00)  Broe had a very good time in Taiwan and spent most of the time with a young lady he was hooked up with; the young lady turned out to be a very intelligent individual (01:51:34:00)  Prior to going on the R&R, Broe drew all the money he could from the books in terms of pay, around $750, and when he arrived in Taiwan, the young lady asked if Broe trusted her; Broe said he did and she told him to give her the money (01:51:49:00)  By the end of the seven days, all Broe’s money was gone, which he knew would happen, but the young lady had set up an entire itinerary for herself and Broe, places to go and things to see (01:52:07:00)  During the seven days on leave, although Broe was in a place where there was not the possibility that people would be shooting at him, he still worried about it (01:52:38:00)  He was still checking around himself all the time because even in Taiwan, he was in a land of short, oriental people who he did not know (01:52:41:00) On Reasoner, there were some South Vietnamese civilians who came and went each day from the camp (01:53:01:00) o However, Broe had very little interaction with the civilians because he was going on and off the camp so much and whenever he was actually on the camp, he was either sleeping, grabbing some food, or getting his equipment squared away for the next mission (01:53:13:00) o Broe himself never had too much in the way of interaction with the civilian population (01:53:41:00) There was not really any tension between the men who went out on the patrols and the men who stayed behind on the camp (01:54:22:00) o Everyone who stayed behind on the camp had a job to do and how well they did their job determined how well the patrols did (01:54:27:00)  At one point, Broe heard a statistic that for every one man in the field, it took ten to twelve men in the rear to support him; from what Broe observed, of all the men who deployed to Vietnam, only a relatively small portion of the men were actually in combat (01:54:37:00) �    o All the men in the battalion were very professional and very good at doing their jobs properly (01:55:05:00)  The other men were always willing to answer questions that the other men might have; Broe has seen the movies where the older men pushed away the younger men but he personally never saw that happen (01:55:12:00)  Everyone seemed more than willing to answer a question or help another person do something that would help the others (01:55:36:00) There were some black men and Hispanic men in Broe’s unit (01:55:56:00) o For the most part, Broe’s unit did not have the racial tensions that others talked about happening in other units (01:56:26:00) o The minorities in the unit knew their job, were eager and willing to help if possible, and wanted to be able to depend on the other men when needed and vice versa (01:56:33:00) When Broe first joined the unit, there was a young Marine already there who was into using speed, a clear liquid drug in a bottle, and was high all the time (01:57:10:00) o The Marine was never used in any type of a combat situation, nor did he ever have to pull guard duty (01:57:28:00) o To Broe, it looked as though everyone knew the Marine was a drug addict but instead of doing something about him, the other Marines just avoided interacting with him (01:57:45:00) o As far as drug use amongst the other soldiers, although Bore figures there was some, he did not deal with it and nobody in his hooch dealt with it; if somebody in the hooch did use drugs, then he went away from the hooch (01:57:53:00) The unit Broe belonged to was very good and the men were a very tight-knit group, even if they did not work together all the time (01:58:49:00) o Any time another fire team got shot up and needed to be brought back at night, the man in charge of the mess hall had his whole crew in the mess hall, ready with hot food for the fire team (01:59:06:00)  Nobody openly ordered the man to do this and it was not something required to be done; the man just did it and none of his men complained, even if they had gone to sleep only an hour before (01:59:24:00) During his tour, Broe wrote to his family on occasion but it was very hard to do so, given the nature of the missions he was doing; he could not say a lot about what was going on during the fighting (01:59:58:00) o At one point, Broe was able to call home using a system consisting of the field phone in the company headquarters plus a series of HAM radios (02:00:12:00)  The conversation was just like talking on a normal radio for Broe, although it was difficult for his parents because they did not understand the reason why they needed to say “over” every time they finished saying something (02:00:34:00)  When Broe called home, he found out his father had been let go from him job, so he tried to figure out if his parents wanted him to re-route his Army pay to them (02:00:50:00)  However, his parents did not want him to do that and by the time Broe rotated home, his father had already established himself in a new job (02:01:12:00) �  During the tour, Bore had a bout of jungle rot across his lower back where his equipment kept rubbing all the time; the equipment would rub against the jungle rot and open up the wounds (02:01:45:00) o Broe would go to the senior corpsman before a patrol and the corpsman would take Broe to an aid station, where the staff covered the wounds with bandages (02:01:54:00)  However, once Broe was in the field and began sweating, the bandages inevitably fell off (02:02:18:00) o When Broe first arrived, he and the other men were given malaria pills and salt pills but all of a sudden, the pills were stopped (02:02:35:00)  The salt pills were meant to be taken by the soldiers who were in the field and sweating a lot but for some reason, the philosophy regarding the use of the pills changed (02:02:52:00) The men in Broe’s unit heard about the shooting at Kent State from a man who joined the unit after the shooting (02:03:48:00) o However, Bore does not recall every hearing about the shooting on the Armed Forces radio; however, he very seldom listened to it regardless (02:04:07:00) o Broe did not know about the Apollo 13 disaster until 1974, when he just happened to hear the story; he ended up having to go and look for information about the disaster because he had heard nothing about it (02:04:16:00) o When he read about Apollo 13 and other stories, Bore sarcastically understands why people were not paying attention to what was happening with the men fighting in Vietnam (02:04:43:00) End of Tour / Post-Military Life / Reflections (02:04:56:00)  When it got to the end of his tour, Broe had a short-timer's calendar and he was counting down the days until he could go home; as Broe’s tour wound down to a close, the duties and assignment he had to do changed (02:04:56:00) o In January 1971, Broe mainly did radio relay work, although the re-assignment was largely due to a patrol Broe had been on around Christmastime (02:05:28:00)  During the patrol, the men came under enemy fire from across a nearby rice paddy; the men hit the ground and started looking in different directions to see if they could spot where exactly the enemy fire had come from (02:05:42:00)  As Broe was laying on the ground with the bullets flying over his head, he lamented the fact that he had come under fire so close to the end of his tour (02:05:54:00)  Broe is not sure whether it was the lieutenant leading the patrol or a sergeant who was also on the patrol, but one of them asked that Broe be pulled out of the field (02:06:21:00)  However, whoever made the suggestion also knew Broe would not like not being in the field at all, so he was placed on a hill in the middle of nowhere as part of a radio relay team (02:06:33:00)  While with the radio relay team, other men in the team stood watch while Broe operated the radios for eight hours (02:06:48:00) �  A couple of times, Broe’s old fire team in 1st Recon was out in the field and they would give a sit-rep (situation report) to Broe, who then relayed the information to the command post (02:07:05:00)  The radios that the fire teams used had a limited range but Broe’s radio was within range of both the fire teams’ radio and the radios at the command post (02:07:27:00)  Working with the radios was interesting because it gave Broe a refresher course in the complexity of supporting units who were in the field (02:07:38:00) o At times, it was frustrating for Broe because in his case, whenever something would happen to a fire team in the field, he knew what the men were going through and how they were constantly running while still trying to keep track of where they were (02:07:49:00) o However, Broe is now the person constantly asking for an update, although he knew full well that was the last thing the men wanted to hear (02:08:08:00)  As far as Broe knows, there was never any problem with the enemy intercepting the messages (02:08:28:00) o The men were told that there was always the possibility that the enemy were listening; however, the encryption codes for the messages changed every day (02:08:33:00)  From what Broe believes, the NVA and Viet Cong had their own set plan and they only attacked the Americans when the Americans happened to get in the way of those plans (02:08:51:00)  Broe believes it became less important for the NVA and Viet Cong to probe the large bases to find information (02:09:14:00)  Broe thinks that although the enemy continued building up their soldiers, they did it in the back, out of the way of the Americans, who were on their way out of the Vietnam (02:10:01:00) As it turned out, Broe’s tour ended up being a week short of the normal twelve months a tour lasted; during his last week, although Broe was still considered overseas, he was in transit back to the United States and was on Okinawa (02:10:27:00) o When the time came for him to actually leave Vietnam, Broe was given a threeday notice beforehand as to when exactly he would be leaving (02:10:49:00)  Broe knew his year was coming up and he knew that his commander knew, mostly because he kept reminding them (02:10:58:00) o Once the day finally came, Broe was driven from Reasoner back to Da Nang so he could catch a flight out (02:11:13:00)  During the out-processing, all the men were allowed to go through “amnesty”; each man was allowed to go into a private booth with a pair of �  barrels inside and throw any contraband they wanted into the barrels, no questions asked (02:11:18:00)  However, once a man got past the booth, if he was caught with any contraband on him, he was in trouble (02:11:38:00)  Contraband consisted of any weapons, drugs being trafficked out, certain types of souvenirs, ammunition, etc. (02:11:51:00)  It had already been made clear to the men what was contraband and the amnesty booths was their last chance to get rid of any contraband items (02:12:18:00)  When Broe left Reasoner, he left most of his stuff behind in his hooch to begin with (02:12:22:00)  He physically did go to turn in his M-16 at the armory; he had turned in the sniper rifle about a month before, when he had been placed on the radio relay team (02:12:30:00) o After leaving Vietnam, Broe went Okinawa and spent another three or four days getting all the equipment he had left there when he first went into Vietnam at the beginning of his tour (02:12:51:00)  However, a typhoon had come through and soaked the equipment that had been left behind, so it was packed into cardboard boxes; when the men opened up the boxes, everything was a mess (02:12:58:00)  All the men were issued new dress uniforms and the whole time, Broe is wondering why he has to receive the uniforms because he was getting out when he got back to the United States (02:13:19:00)  The military was offering an early-out to anyone who had less than one-hundred-and-twenty days remaining on his enlistment when he returned to the United States; Broe figured when he got back, he would have ninety-one days remaining on his tour (02:13:38:00)  Ultimately, Broe was able to return home with some souvenirs he thought were important, such as a couple of papers (02:14:13:00) All in all, Vietnam was a very weird country; it was hot, but the men were always cold, it rained constantly but it was always dry, the whole country had a smell that, thankfully, Broe has been unable to find duplicated in the United States (02:14:17:00) o The minute the door opened on the airplane in Da Nang when Broe first arrived, the air became thick and heavy and there was an odor in the air that was noticeable but the men could not figure out what was causing it (02:14:45:00)  Nevertheless, to a certain extent, all the men eventually became used to the odor; however, the further the men moved into the field, the more the odor was replaced by the smell of vegetation (02:15:05:00)  While in the field, as the men would approach a village, they could smell the burning wood from the fires (02:15:31:00) The flight home from Vietnam to Okinawa and then to the United States was aboard another commercial airplane (02:16:25:00) o When the men were first boarding the airplane in Vietnam, everyone was quiet and everyone was sweating; everyone tensed up when the door of the airplane closed and there was a “thump” sound (02:16:31:00) �   o Everyone sat quietly until the wheels of the airplane left the ground; after that, everyone let out a cheer and went nuts (02:16:55:00) Once back in the United States, Broe was taken to an area of Camp Pendleton, although he is not positive where on the camp it was (02:17:26:00) o Broe and the other men spent four days in the area as they went through the procedure of out-processing paperwork (02:17:45:00)  The whole process was very loose; when the men first went into their barracks, they tried to store their gear in an orderly manner, out of fear of an inspection, but none ever happened (02:18:13:00) o Re-enlisting was talked about to the degree that if someone was thinking about reenlisting, they were told who they needed to go see; for a couple of days, Broe himself seriously considered re-enlisting (02:18:46:00)  At one point, he asked a staff sergeant what the possibilities were that Broe would go back to 1st Recon and the staff sergeant said it was highly unlikely Broe would be assigned to the same unit (02:19:04:00)  When he heard he would probably not rejoin 1st Recon, Broe became more hesitant about re-enlisting (02:19:19:00)  At first, Broe asked the staff sergeant the likelihood he would be sent back to Vietnam regardless and the staff sergeant said it was very high; although the Americans were pulling out, because Broe was an E-4 with combat experience, he was a sought after commodity (02:19:25:00) o What the sergeant did not tell Broe and what Broe found out later was he gone back, he likely would have been given a relatively safe, non-combat position (02:19:43:00)  However, Broe would have not cared for a non-combat position, so he is glad he ultimately decided not to re-enlist (02:19:51:00) After he finished out-processing and left Camp Pendleton, Broe returned to Michigan by way of Chicago, which was experiencing a series of bad snow storms (02:20:05:00) Once he got home, Broe did nothing for about a week-and-a-half before he went to try and get his job back at the yacht-making company (02:21:04:00)  However, the manager in charge of personnel told him the company was going through severe cut backs and even if Broe had stayed, he would have been let go already (02:21:17:00)  However, the manager told Bore to wait because he knew another man at a furnace company; the manager called the other man, explained the situation, asked if the other man had an opening, and the other man told the manager to send Broe over (02:21:35:00) o Broe went to the furnace company and got a job working on a production line, assembling furnaces for house trailers; however, Broe hated the job and hated being inside on an assembly line (02:21:57:00) o One day, he was in Allegan when he ran into an old friend who worked for the local telephone company; the friend told Broe that the telephone company was looking to hire a new lineman and told Broe to put in an application (02:22:11:00) �    Broe got the job at the telephone company and worked there for a while, until one night, he got into a car accident (02:22:27:00) o The car accident screwed Broe up because he had been toying with the idea of reenlisting in the military (02:22:48:00)  The accident laid Broe up for over a year, spending six months in a body cast and the next six to eight months on crutches (02:23:56:00)  Once he started using the crutches, Broe decided to use the G.I. Bill to go to school (02:24:09:00) o Broe spent two terms at Western Michigan University studying aviation engineering, with the hopes of becoming an airplane mechanic (02:24:17:00)  However, the experience did not work out too well for Broe, who did not fit into the regimentation of school life; he was used to doing things because there was a reason, not because somebody thought it was a good idea (02:24:35:00) o Broe eventually got a job working in South Haven, Michigan building blueberry shakers (02:25:04:00) o However, the company started losing business, so Broe found a job working in the Lifesaver candy factory in 1974, where he stayed for twenty-five years (02:25:12:00) The time Broe spent in the military were definitely his formative years, akin to the years when a student is in college (02:25:36:00) o Broe’s time in the military gave him a different outlook on situations as compared to what other people’s outlooks were (02:25:47:00)  Broe has evidence of this, thanks to the brief time he spent at Western Michigan (02:26:01:00) o Broe believes his military service gave him a high degree of self-discipline and the drive to go after things he felt were worth going after (02:26:16:00) Broe held a variety of jobs working at the Lifesaver factory, eventually reaching the point where, during third shifts, he was the only person working in the factory (02:26:47:00) o However, the lack of human interaction began to cause trouble for Broe and he began fighting with some personal demons (02:27:05:00) o Eventually, the parent company planned to sell the factory and Broe, who was by then a production supervisor, grew tired of waiting for the sale to happen and quit the company (02:27:26:00) After he left Lifesavers, Broe went to work with his brother, who owned a local gravel business; Broe stayed at the business but his inner problems continued, up to the point that one some nights, he could not sleep (02:28:09:00) o At the time, Broe belonged to the local chapter of the Vietnam Veterans association in Holland and at one point, he got to talking with one of the other members and other member told Broe to come with him (02:28:23:00)  The other member took Broe to the VA center in Grand Rapids and right into the mental health section (02:28:37:00)  The woman at the section said that Broe needed to talk with a psychiatrist; although she knew what his problem was, she was not able to make any diagnosis (02:28:54:00) �  Within in an hour, Broe was enrolled in the system and the psychiatrist explained PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder) to Broe, something he had heard very little about (02:29:08:00) o Since his diagnosis, Broe has been learning more about the disorder and has been spending more time interacting with other veterans (02:29:37:00) o Following the diagnosis, Broe has gone through a re-adjustment period; there were things in his mind that were fighting to get out but Broe was fighting just as hard to keep them locked inside (02:30:20:00) o A lot of the reason why Broe kept things locked away was because of other people, who often irritated or annoyed him; however, looking back, often the dislike Broe had for the people stemmed from disagreements he had with them about what things were important and how things should be done (02:31:19:00) Broe’s time in the military was a very character building experience for him; although there were probably some things he should not have done, he does not regret serving in the military (02:31:58:00) o He encourages any veteran who feels he or she is battling uphill to contact with VA and to not be ashamed about their service (02:32:22:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broe, Daniel (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Broe, Daniel Description An account of the resource Daniel Broe was born in Allegan, Michigan in 1949, and grew up there and in Holland, Michigan. He went to work after high school, and was drafted into the Marine Corps in 1969. He did well enough in rifle training at Camp Pendleton to be put into scout/sniper training, and went to Vietnam early in 1970. Assigned to the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion, he spent most of his tour on patrols in the northern part of South Vietnam, with occasional forays into Laos. The patrols were intended to find the enemy without being seen, and for the most part they avoided firefights, and took no casualties while Broe was in the field, despite a number of scares. While trained as a sniper, he never had occasion to carry out a sniper assignment, and instead operated his squad's radio. Toward the end of his tour, his unit shifted its area of operations away from the Laotion border and closer to Da Nang, and he was eventually assigned to a radio relay station, where he communicated between the units in the field and the rear area headquarters. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Marine Corps Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-01-25 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BroeD1340V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7d67bc24aa2e4c65b2bb9e273879dee8.mp4 0f4472dcc106a3f6d70ff86065400ec8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/91a250f36734fa6ccf55eb40eb7ac0d7.pdf 5c4393a50db841a6244e7118ac1ff428 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Craig Brodie Cold War, Vietnam War 1 hour 25 minutes 10 seconds (00:00:35) Early Life -Born in Plattsburgh, New York in August of 1941 -Father was an insurance adjuster for GM -He enlisted in the Army to fight in WWII -Moved to mother’s hometown Newtown, Connecticut while father fought -Grew up in Newtown, Connecticut (00:01:19) College & ROTC -Attended the University of Vermont -Joined the Reserve Officers’ Training Corps -Two years were mandatory, stayed on for voluntary four years -Graduated from college on June 9, 1963 -Got commissioned by the Army on the same day -First two years of ROTC consisted of marching and classwork -Second two years of ROTC was more based on leadership -Got to lead a training platoon -Executive officer of his corps during his senior year -Had one summer camp at Fort Devens, Massachusetts -Very similar experience to boot camp (00:04:16) Armored Officer Training -Went to New Jersey to meet with his brother -Brother was a warrant officer -Got him (Craig) his first uniforms for training -From New Jersey went to Fort Knox, Kentucky for Armored Officer Basic School -Being around a tank for the first time was stunning -Training consisted of two primary focuses -How to properly fight with, and against, tanks -Physical conditioning -Ran three to four miles every morning -Last training course was a combination of physical and academic endurance -Adjusted quickly and easily to military living -Training lasted five months -Had very little downtime in those five months -Spent most of their time in the classroom or in the field -Had been trained by other officers -First day there had to teach a class on fire prevention (00:07:14) Deployment to Germany -Went to Brooklyn Naval Yard -Boarded the Rose (a troop transport) that was bound for Germany -While en route he placed was in charge of educating other soldiers about Germany �-Had to create a lesson plan that was approved by a colonel (00:08:51) Serving in Germany -Arrived in Bremerhaven, Germany -Greeted by a band -Got assigned to be the train commander -In charge of maintaining order and discipline en route to deployment -Went to Heidelberg, Germany -Got assigned to the 4th Medium Tank Battalion 68th Armored Regiment -First day there they went into the field for training maneuvers -Got put in charge of a tank platoon -Used M60 tanks -Listened to experienced soldiers on how to properly command -By now it was early 1964 -Large number of drills dealt with repelling a Russian invasion -Wanted to be prepared for any eventuality (00:13:26) German Civilians -Visited Mannheim, Germany fairly often -Treated very well by the Germans there -Later was able to move in with a German family -Knew very little German -Eventually learned some basic phrases -Most Germans that lived around bases picked up some English (00:14:53) Leaving Germany -Stayed in Germany until 1966 -Had been reassigned to the 3rd Squadron of the 8th Cavalry -Patrolled the East/West German border -Focused on possible invasion routes -Worked in conjunction with the West German military -Good morale in Germany -Units were being drawn out for redeployment to Vietnam -Met the woman he would marry while in Germany -They got married in April of 1966 -In June 1966 he received orders to return to the United States (00:18:43) Aberdeen Proving Ground -Assigned to Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland -Became an original member of the Officer Candidate School Brigade -New duty was to train soldiers about maintenance and supplies -Still worked with vehicles -Also was placed in charge of record keeping -Worked there for two years as a teacher -While at Aberdeen he was promoted to captain -Did not plan on becoming a career soldier -Not many jobs in the civilian world though (00:22:13) Deployment to Vietnam -Wanted to go to Vietnam -Wanted to prove his merit as an officer �-Received orders to leave for Vietnam in the fall of 1968 -Found out that his wife was pregnant two days before he left -Flew to California and took a TWA chartered flight out of Travis Air Force Base -Stopped in Hawaii and Okinawa before reaching Vietnam (00:25:35) Arriving in Vietnam -Landed in Bien Hoa -Greeted by soldiers that were ecstatic about leaving Vietnam -Traveled by bus to the 93rd Replacement Battalion -Thought that Vietnam was hot and sticky -Received very little orientation upon arriving -Received orders to go to the 29th General Support Group -Located at Long Binh -Primary focus there was logistics -Told deputy commander there that he wanted to be a commander -Received the position (00:28:02) Bearcat-Leadership Position -The next day he was sent to Bearcat -Placed in command of the 590th Maintenance Company -Replacing the former company commander -Located fifteen kilometers south of Long Binh -Inland location -Previous base of the 9th Infantry Division -Well defended by U.S. and Thai soldiers -3000 troops as well as helicopter units -Got harassed by enemy fire -Low level artillery strikes and minor sapper raids -Received a formal introduction to the company he would be commanding -Planned on getting to know the soldiers better -Interviewed the NCOs and officers under his command -Learned that the supply system was broken -Started to repair the supply system at Bearcat -Moved soldiers into different positions to promote efficiency -Worked with the company for six months (00:35:54) Enemy Contact -Remembers an incident on February 23, 1969 -A movie had gotten over at 10 PM -Twenty minutes later a Vietnamese rocket barrage started -Rocket hit the movie theatre -Would have killed everyone in there -Didn’t take a single casualty that night -Remembers a rocket strike killing four troops in a jeep at once -Only got shot at once or twice -Later learned that one of his OCS trainers had been killed in action outside of Bearcat (00:39:19) Operating Outside of Bearcat -Went to multiple places outside of Bearcat -Long Binh, firebases, Saigon (rarely) �-Had to go off the base to coordinate supplies and inspect the conditions of supplies -Part of insuring that supplies were being maintained properly -Also went out with Thai troops to recover damaged, or destroyed, vehicles (00:41:50) Relationship with Thai Soldiers -Met with Thai soldiers once a week -Language gap made communicating difficult -Good workers and good soldiers -Biggest issue involved their lack of familiarity with electronics and howitzers -Thai soldiers were respected -Worked hard to keep the surrounding area free of North Vietnamese and Viet Cong -They patrolled between Bearcat and another base known as Blackhorse (00:45:19) Going to Saigon -Had to go into Saigon to call his wife -No international telephones outside of Saigon -Was only able to talk to her twice during his deployment -Also went to Saigon to gather specific parts for vehicles -Once was able to find thirteen extremely rare Dodge truck engines -You could find almost anything in Saigon -Suspects that there was a vibrant black market of stolen goods -Once scrounged up a portable officer hut, steaks, and miscellaneous vehicles (00:49:32) Relationship with Vietnamese Civilians -Remembers firing Vietnamese mess hall workers -Had been allowing for unsanitary conditions -Replaced them with American soldiers -Lots of Vietnamese civilians worked at Bearcat -Five to six civilians were used per unit -Cleaned living areas, mess halls, and latrines -Had a young orphaned boy work for him for about three months -Knew that Viet Cong infiltration was a possibility, but never witnessed it himself -Soldiers under his command got along with the Vietnamese -Good relationship as long as the civilians followed orders -Structure of their relationship didn’t allow for mistreatment -U.S. soldiers would routinely go off base to pick up Vietnamese prostitutes (00:54:38) Drugs & Race Relations -Biggest discipline problem involved psychologically unstable soldiers using drugs -Some soldiers attempted to kill their officers while they were high -He always felt that the stable, responsible soldiers could handle their drugs -Opium and weed were common -Had to deal with the results of drug use -One soldier under his command developed a drug habit -Drugs weren’t a major problem for him -There were black soldiers in leadership positions -Black and white soldiers got along well and would willingly integrate (00:58:05) Bearcat-Staff Position -After leading for six months he was moved to staff at Bearcat -Continued to be responsible for maintenance and supply �-Worked with the Armored Cavalry units at Bearcat and Blackhorse -Mostly office work -Tried to maintain a presence with his troops at Bearcat -Didn’t enjoy being behind a desk -Tried to avoid having conflicts with company commanders -Had an OK relationship with his commanding officer -Not a bad person, just a bad listener -Didn’t always see eye to eye with each other (01:01:20) Reflecting on Vietnam -Never thought about the war’s progress during his deployment -Was always under the impression that they were winning -Felt that they did better under Abe Abrams as opposed to Westmoreland -Heart wrenching to see Saigon fall to North Vietnam in 1975 -Thought they would return to a hero’s welcome -Shocked by the negativity upon returning home -Felt that they had handled the dead well at Blackhorse -Dignified and respectful -Also had been impressed by how well their triage system worked (01:03:41) Leaving Vietnam and Coming Home -Went through the 93rd Replacement Battalion before leaving Vietnam -Was able to take a shower and put on a clean uniform -Went to Bien Hoa to board a “Freedom Bird” (a chartered TWA airliner) -Flew to Alaska and was received well there -From Alaska flew back to Travis Air Force Base -Took a bus from Travis AFB to San Francisco -Advised by their superiors to change out of their uniforms -Decided to wear his uniform on the flight home -Never was harassed because of being a veteran -Returned to his wife in Michigan -Was finally able to see his five month old son (01:05:56) Ammunition Procurement and Supply Agency -Next assignment was to the Ammunition Procurement and Supply Agency -Located in Joliet, Illinois -Had to train at Fort Lee, Virginia to learn how to be a procurement officer -Got promoted to major -Did office work in Joliet, Illinois for two years -Worked in ammunition sales for eight months (01:07:04) Deployed to Hawaii -Got assigned to Hawaii as a materiel officer for the 725th Maintenance Battalion -Did office work for a year and a half -Eventually worked in materiel -Duty was to insure that supplies were moved to Guam to be moved to Vietnam -Stayed in Hawaii until the fall of Saigon in 1975 -Discouraged by how quickly Vietnam fell -Enjoyed the deployment to Hawaii �(01:10:10) Military Colleges -After Hawaii he was sent to the Command and General Staff College -Graduated fifth in his class -Performance as an officer had significantly improved -Had received a bronze star for supply leadership in Vietnam -Sent by the Army to study at Babson College outside of Boston -Spent eighteen months there (01:11:03) Tank Automotive Command -Sent to Detroit as part of the Tank Automotive Command to oversee supply -Wound up taking over the M48 tank upgrading project -Successfully finished that program -Worked in integrated logistics support for a couple years (01:12:55) Deployment to Korea -Sent to South Korea -Placed in command of General Support Maintenance for all of South Korea -Allowed him to overhaul the computerized supply system -Served in Korea from 1981 to 1982 -Helped streamline and improve the efficiency there -Mostly worked with Koreans -Thought that they were good workers -Life was different in Korea -Totally foreign experience and took some time adjusting to it -North/South Korean demilitarized zone was a very active border (01:17:23) Tank Automotive Command Pt. 2 -Got assigned to be the Inspector General for Tank Automotive Command in Detroit -Post-Korea -Assignment would last four years -Took part in major investigation concerning efficiency of tank production -Got assigned to be Director of Systems Engineering -Still in Detroit -In charge of field engineering -Duty was to reorganize Tank Automotive Command into two parts -Eventually got promoted to colonel -Heavily involved in the modernization effort of tanks during the 1980s (01:21:17) Career Post-Army -Retired from the Army as soon as he could get a job -Got employed through GTE in Massachusetts through a friend -Did satellite communications work for the military -Eventually became the project manager for the whole program -The regional support center at Fort Hood under his command participated in the Gulf War -Retired from that at the age of sixty (01:24:08) Life after Service -Prompted him to have a deep interest in American military history -Collects Civil War artifacts -Letters, orders, photos, and weapons -Has deeply, independently studied WWII due to family’s involvement �Vietnam Experiences by Craig E. Brodie (Colonel USA RET.) Feb 2014 Version Preface This paper addresses some of the details of my tour of duty in Vietnam in 1968-1969. Sources of my story are personal notes, official records and memory. There is no possible way to capture and record all that has become a part of what I now refer to as my Vietnam Experience. This is my best effort. I have tried to be a good historian. This paper has been a work in progress since 1970 when I started to document my story for future generations. Some of the story comes from notes and documents kept all these years. Some of course comes from memory. Where unsure of events, I have tried to identify the uncertainty. Getting Started Orders to report for duty in Vietnam arrived early in August of 1968 while I was a student at the Ordnance Officer Advanced Course at Aberdeen Proving Grounds MD. They were not unexpected. I entered the twenty-week course with an understanding that I would go to Vietnam upon graduation in the fall. My orders for assignment to Vietnam were published in Headquarters Department of the Army Special Orders No. 144 dated 24 July 1968. As was the common practice, the orders were general in nature and directed assignment to a major in-theater command. In my case the major command was the US Army Support Command Saigon (USASSUPCOM SGN) APO San Francisco 96491. My Availability Date was 4 November 1968. My Estimated Date for Change of Station Assigned (EDCSA) was 7 November 1968. My Overseas arrival date was identified as no later than (NLT) 8 November 1968. Everyone understood that a specific duty assignment would be determined after arrival in Vietnam. My assignment orders authorized up to 134lbs of personal effects. They specifically directed that I arrive in Vietnam wearing khaki (tan) trousers with a short sleeved khaki (tan) shirt and that I take with me one complete “work uniform “ which is the uniform aptly, affectionately and better known as fatigues. I was allowed up to 30 days of leave prior to departure. Prior to finishing the Ordnance Officer Advanced Course, I received all required shots had an eye exam and received two pair of regular glasses and one pair of sunglasses. I was also fitted with special prescription glasses that fit into a standard issue M17 protective mask. The M17, was designed to protect against chemical and biological attacks which was a standard issue item for the Army worldwide, including Vietnam. I never carried or put the mask on during my entire tour of duty.I graduated from the Ordnance Officer Advanced Course on 19 September 1968 but remained assigned to the student detachment providing temporary support to training courses until I was ready to go on leave. �Lil and I packed out of our second home which was a small second floor two bedroom apartment we rented in Havre de Grace, Maryland, upon our arrival at Aberdeen in June of 1966. My notes indicate Lil and I departed Aberdeen at 1000 hrs on 27 September 1968. We drove to Newtown, Connecticut to see Dee Dee (My Aunt Alice) and then drove to Northport, Michigan, to visit with Mom and Dad Johnson. While on leave I learned that on October 10, 1968 the US Army Ordnance Center and School had published Special Order #220 which amended Department of Army Special Order #144 directing that I report to Travis Air Force Base, Oakland, California by no later than (NLT) 1900 hours on 4 November 1968 for Flight TKPT 2B3 for transport to Vietnam. On October 12th we arrived in Kalamazoo, Michigan, to settle Lil into our new townhouse at 3485 Kenbrook Court. I don’t recall renting the apartment, but we certainly went to Kalamazoo to do that somewhere along the way. Once Lil was settled in our new home we flew to visit my folks in Orlando, Florida. While in Florida we took a trip with my parents over to the Gulf coast at Ft. Meyer and then down to through the Everglades to Miami then back to Orlando. When back in Kalamazoo, Lil went to see a doctor and learned she was pregnant. I picked her up at the sidewalk and she gave me a card telling me I was going to be a father. It was just a few days before I had to leave. After lunch on 2 November 1968 Lil and I got ready to say good-by for a year. I put on my Green uniform and Lil put on a tan suit I just loved. I had to wear my Green uniform because the summer uniform I would wear into Vietnam was not authorized for wear in November in Michigan. We took some pictures in the back yard. I said goodbye to our dog Tanza and then we drove our gold 1967 Plymouth over to Barb and Dick Hughey’s. We spent some time at the Hughey’s talking and sharing some wine. I remember I did not want to sit down. Barb and Dick drove us to the Kalamazoo airport. There was no indoor ramp leading to the plane. We had to walk outside to get to the gate area. Passengers had to pass through a fence, walk some distance to the plane and then climb the stairs to the door. I held Lil for the last time at the fence. I remember I could not then look back until I was up the steps and at the door of the plane because if I had I would not have been able to keep going. Saying goodbye to Lil who I knew was pregnant and to all that I loved most in the world on that day was the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life. The empty feeling was worse than the death of any loved one I have ever lived through. I will never forget it. We flew out at about1630 hours on a North Central Airlines flight headed to O’Hare airport in Chicago. I remember I sat next to a young Private who was also heading to Vietnam. We smoked and talked about what might lie ahead. He had never been outside of the United States. We both felt alone. I changed planes at O’Hare and got on a direct flight to San Francisco, California. I don’t recall the airline. I was met at the airport in San Francisco by Lil’s sister Carol Johnson, who at that time was single and teaching school in San Jose, California. We spent the next day (3 November) visiting San Francisco and on the morning of the 4th drove out to the beach at Santa Cruze. On the afternoon of the 4th I put on my khaki uniform, left my Green uniform with Carol and she drove me up to Travis Air Force Base. We got �there at about 5 in the afternoon. I said good-by to Carol, checked in my duffle bag, and placed a call to Lil from a phone booth just before we were called to board the plane. On the Way The aircraft we flew into Vietnam was operated by TWA under contract with the government. It was full to capacity. The higher the rank the further front one got to sit. I sat on the aisle 8-10 rows back. We loaded quietly. It was dark. There was not much talking. Everyone’s mind was on what they were leaving. Almost as soon as we were airborne they started to feed us, and they kept on feeding us regularly throughout the flight to help us adjust to the time changes. All the stewardesses and crew had worked such flights many times. They all wore vests covered with medals given to them by soldiers on the way home from the war. We were soldiers on the way in – we would not be the same on the way out. I have often wondered how many on our flight never returned alive. Our first stop was Hawaii were we took on fuel. I don’t recall if we were allowed off of the plane or not. I do remember it was dark. The next stop was at Kadina Air Base in Okinawa where once again we took on fuel and were allowed off to stretch our legs. At that time the terminal where we deplaned was built of tin buildings. It was still dark in Kadina. From Kadina we flew directly into Bien Hoa Air Base in Vietnam. Between Kadina and Bien Hoa night became day. We arrived at Bien Hoa in bright morning sunlight. It was November 6, 1968 in Vietnam. As our plane descended to lower altitudes, everyone was trying to look out the windows. It was very green and the brown colored military camps, and bomb craters stood out in the jungle and were clearly visible. As we touched down, the first impression was one of a reddish-brown dust that seemed to be everywhere. Then, when they opened the plane door there was a blast of very hot air and sounds of clapping and cheering. I did not understand the clapping and cheering until I got to the door. To our right front as we walked down the stairs from the plane there was a tin roofed open - sided building. Gathered in under the roof was a large group of soldiers delighted to see us because our plane was about to become their “Freedom Bird.” As soon as we got off they would load-up and be on their way home. It would be a long time and many things would happen before I would be doing the cheering. My notes record the time as 1015 hours. We were directed to a seating area with backless benches covered by a tin roof next to where the leaving soldiers were located. It was very hot and it was very noisy. There was noise from those about to get on the plane, there was the noise of forklifts moving cargo around the area where we were sitting, and there was noise from military aircraft taking off and landing. In a short time our baggage was brought up and we loaded on busses. There were wire mess screens welded over all the bus windows. I would come to understand such screens were installed on all US �busses in Vietnam to keep someone from lobbing a hand grenade through an open window. We were on our way to the 90th Replacement Detachment. The First Few Days The drive to the Replacement Detachment was not long. It might have taken about 15 minutes. The Replacement Detachment was located at the edge of the Long Binh installation near the intersection of route15 and route 316. The facility was basically a city of canvas topped sleeping huts set up to process new arrivals to units of assignment and to process those bound for home out of country. Here I received my unit assignment. The replacement detachment was a busy place. I clearly recall the Headquarters, Supply, PX, Mess Hall and the Officers Club buildings. There were others, but I was never inside of them. All the buildings were constructed on concrete pads with wood walls that were slatted and screened partway up. Many had tin roofs. Others had canvas roofs. The inside board was the outside board. Nothing was finished. They were set up in rows with narrow walkways down each side and between each one. The walkways were framed by sandbags stacked along the sides of the huts almost to where the roof met the wall. Showers and latrines were located at the end of each row of tents in tin covered wood framed shelters with concrete floors. There were drainage ditches about 3 feet deep dug throughout the area to handle rain run-off. Most walkways were metal. I think this type of construction existed on nearly all Base Camps in country – at least at all those I visited. I was assigned a bunk, told to change into the fatigues I was required to bring with me --- and to await further instructions. I did not know anyone. There were at least four double-decked bunks in each hut but there could have been more. I drew some towels and bedding from a central issue point, showered, and changed out of my travel uniform. As there was nothing to do right away I went to the Officer’s Club which was located near the main gate. This building at least had air conditioning so it was a good place to be. There was a jute box which was constantly playing and one could buy drinks and snacks. This club was also used by Officers stationed at, or passing through, Long Binh so for the first time I got to see soldiers close up with steel pots, flack jackets and weapons. It was a strange new world. Later I was issued jungle fatigues and combat boots at the Supply Building. The next day, 7 November 1968, I was notified over the loudspeaker system to report to receive my assignment. My new orders, (USARV Transient Detachment Special Order 312 dated 7 November 1968) formally assigned me to the US Army Support Command Saigon, but I was told I would be going to the 29th General Support Group. The 29th General Support Group was a major subordinate command of the US Army Support Command Saigon. Its headquarters were located at Long Binh. �In the early afternoon, a Captain from the 29th General Support Group staff came by to pick me up in a jeep. We drove to the Group Headquarters on Long Binh post. I cannot recall the Captain’s name. I do remember being impressed by how much he seemed to know about what was going on. It was a short ride and as you might imagine I was soaking up information from the unit signs and the facilities we passed on the way. After being shown to a bunk and parking my gear I was given a brief orientation on the Group Headquarters area. The next major event of this day was that I met with the 29th General Support Group Deputy Commander, LTC Holady C. Neafus Jr. I told LTC Neafus I very much wanted to command a company. I explained that I was already a fairly senior Captain and that the time available to get a command was passing me by. (I n fact I had another motivation for wanting a command which I did not share. The Ordnance Branch had informed me during the Advanced Course that because my Officer Efficiency Ratings were not so hot when I was a young officer I was ranked in the lower third of my peers and it was extremely important for my career to demonstrate I could do well in a company command position in combat.) LTC Neafus and I talked for about 30 minutes most of which was a discussion about my past military assignments. At the end of the interview LTC Neafus informed me that after talking with some of his staff he would, by the next day, finalize his recommendation regarding my assignment for the 29th Support Group Commander. He never gave a hint about my chances for getting a command. At that time I did not know, but would later learn, that Major Donald Simpson who was then the Commander of the Bearcat Logistical Support Activity (LSA) (Provisional) at Camp Bearcat was looking for an officer to take command of the 590th Light Maintenance Company (Direct Support) (Divisional). Major Simpson had already received approval from the Commander of the 29th General Support Group to relieve the current company commander (Captain Charles O’Conner) who had not been performing well. Major Simpson needed a replacement. I was provided a bunk and spent the night of 7and 8 November in Long Binh at the Group Headquarters. Here I met several officers from the 29th General Support Group Materiel Office staff and for the first time I felt like I was somewhere I belonged. I spoke their language and understood their mission, but as you might imagine, I spent most of my time listening. In mid-morning of 8 November while I was in the 29th General Support Group Material Office area soaking up as much information as possible about Group operations, I was called to the Group Commander’s office. Here I met the 29th Support Group Commander, a Colonel McDonald and Major Donald Simpson. They informed me that I was going to get a command and was being assigned to the 590th Light Maintenance Company at Camp Bearcat. Major Simpson would be my commanding officer. They did not tell me the current 590th commander was being relieved. As soon as the meeting was over, I got my gear, was given a steel pot and a flack jacket they had brought along for my use, and we loaded in Major Simpson’s jeep for my first drive down Route 15 to “Bearcat”. Major Simpson drove the jeep himself and his Sergeant Major George McCoy rode in the front right seat with an M16 in his lap. This arrangement left room for me along with my gear in the back seat. The jeep had armor and sandbags on �the floor for protection against a possible mine explosion. I had no weapon and this is the only time in my entire tour I drove Route 15 unarmed. The drive down to “Bearcat” was eye opening. Route 15 was basically a two lane road that ran South out of Long Binh to the village of Long Than which was near “Bearcat” and then continued down to the coast at Vung Tau. The road was dusty and nearly all the vehicles on it were military. There were a few civilian villages but mostly rice fields. I would learn that his road was ours during the day but it pretty much belonged to the VC at night. When we arrived at the Bearcat Logistical Support Activity (LSA) Headquarters I, I, was again provided with a temporary bunk and was introduced to some of the LSA staff officers and officers from the 1011th S&S Company. The 1011th troop living area was co-located with the LSA Headquarters living area. I met no one from the 590th Maintenance Company. Late in the day I was asked over to Major Simpson’s living quarters (“hooch”) to talk privately with him and his Sgt Major George McCoy about my new command. It was here I first learned the present commander of the 590th was being relieved. I don’t know for sure, but I suspect that Captain O’Connor got as little notice of his change in command as I did --maybe even less. On the morning of 9 November 1968 I rode down to the 590th with Major Simpson. As soon as I arrived, I was introduced to the First Sergeant (Lewis Ellis) and signed Unit Order 54 assuming command. The Company was formed up in the area between the street and the company headquarters building. It was a beautiful clear hot day. Captain O’Conner spoke to the troops and Major Simpson then spoke thanking Captain O’Conner for his service and introducing and welcoming me. The order was read, the Company Guidon was passed and I was Commander of the 590th Maintenance Company (Direct Support) (Divisional) at APO San Francisco 96530. I said a few words about being honored to lead such a fine unit. I had never met a single person in the 590th prior to this Change of Command. I don’t think the entire Change of Command ceremony took 20 minutes. Captain O’Connor got in Major Simpson’s jeep and they drove off. I never saw Captain O’Connor again. That afternoon I moved into my hooch which was my first private quarters since arriving in-country. I drew company issue gear to include an M-16 rifle and a 45 pistol, a steel pot, a flack jacket, and then took my first tour of the Company area and started to get to know some folks. 590th History The 590 Maintenance Company traces its history back to World War Two. It was originally activated on 16 August 1944 in England as the 3055th Ordnance Service Composite Company. It served in France, Belgium and Germany. It was inactivated at Camp Shanks New York, in November 1945 and reactivated on13 December 1946 as the 3055th Ordnance Service Company in Japan. On 30 June 1947 the unit it was redesignated the 590th Ordnance Service Company. On 15 March 1950 it was again deactivated. On March 1, 1967 reactivation occurred under Table of Organization and Equipment (TOE) 29-138F at Fort Lewis, Washington. On 1 September 1967 the unit deployed to Vietnam on USNS General John Pope. The unit arrived at Bearcat (Camp Martin Cox) on 21 September 1967 and was attached to the 185th Maintenance Battalion, which was located in Long Binh. The executive officer of the 185th was my �immediate boss when I was an instructor in the Ordnance Officer Candidate School (OCS) at Aberdeen, Proving Ground prior to my attending the Advanced Course at Aberdeen. His name was Major Ralph Wight. He was killed on Route 15 between Bearcat and Long Binh several months before I finished the Advanced Course. I will say more of this later. On 25 July 1968 the 590th was released from the 185th Maintenance Battalion and was attached to the 266th Supply and Services Battalion (DS). On 11 September 1968 the 590th was released from the 266th and attached to the Bearcat Logistical Support Activity (Provisional) under the 29th General Support Group. The mission of the 590th under TOE 29-138F was to provide back-up Direct Support level maintenance and limited evacuation services to a Division and non-divisional units where no other Corps support is available. Primary items of equipment supported for repair and repair parts are armored and wheeled vehicles, small arms and artillery and communications equipment.( Medical, cryptographic, ADP/EAM, aircraft, and air delivery equipment are not supported.) 590th Mission in Vietnam At the time I assumed command the primary mission of the company was to provide support to US and any other Free World forces operating within the Thai Infantry Division’s tactical area of operations and to other forces as directed.(The Thai Division, known as the “Panthers”, was commonly referred to as the ”RTVF” or Royal Thai Volunteer Force. Their Division headquarters and many of their logistics support units were stationed at Bearcat. The Thai Division had replaced the US 9th Infantry Division as the major ground combat unit operating out of Bearcat not long before my arrival. Bearcat was a base camp carved out of the jungle near the town of Long Than which is on Route 15 about 10 miles Southeast of Long Binh. There were about 5,000 US forces plus the Thai Division stationed in the area. The camp was about 2 miles long and 1 mile wide. The entire edge of the camp was circled by a plowed up earth berm topped by bunkers and sandbags. The jungle was cleared back from the berm for several hundred meters, and in places the area between the berm and the jungle was mined with Claymore anti-personnel mines, which were protected with strands of barbed wire. The bunkers were positioned so that there were interlocking fields of fire to protect the perimeter. There were two gates to the west or Route 15 side. The Gate to the south opened to a short dirt road leading to an airbase called K5 and then proceeded to Long Than village. The next gate to the North opened to a longer dirt road that joined Route 15 North of Long Than village. The gate to the far North was a back road to Long Binh that was usually closed. The talk on base was that the area the road passed through was not safe for non-combat troops because of the VC or VC supporters. I don’t know the truth of the talk. I never used that gate or traveled on the road. Generally, the jungle was cleared back from these roads. (Insert: The intersection where the Northern road from Bearcat met Route 15 was locally referred to as “Whore’s Corner”. It was a spot more dangerous than friendly. If out too late one might occasionally receive small arms fire from the trees. �One of the first things a new commander is sign for the Unit Fund. In my case this turned out to be a very emotional experience. One of the signatures in the records was that of Major Ralph Wright , who was my immediate boss for well over a year when I was teaching OCS at Aberdeen. He went to Vietnam before I did and was assigned to a Maintenance Bn. in Long Binh to which the 590th was then assigned. Major Wright had reviewed and approved the Unit Fund records on the day he was ambushed on the road on his way back to Long Binh. A charge was detonated by the VC as his Jeep passed. It killed him. He left the 590th too late in the day. He was a good mentor and friend. It was not until 16 November 1968 that the Saigon Support Command finally got around to issuing Special Order 321 officially directing me to report to the 590th by NLT 18 November 1968. Things did not always follow the normal path. It soon became apparent to me I had a tiger by the tail and as a result Major Simpson and I spent considerable time talking about things in the early going. One evening soon after assuming command I was at his hooch and after a discussion and a few drinks was walking back to my jeep in the dark and managed to step off into one of those 3 foot drainage ditches for rain run-off which were so common in base camps throughout Vietnam. When I stepped out into space and hit solid ground on the bottom or other side of the ditch, it felt like I led with my chin. The blow nearly knocked me out and opened a large cut in my chin that bled profusely. Sgt Major McCoy heard me cry out and led me to his hooch where he helped to stop the bleeding and clean the cut. I still have a scar on my chin from this injury. I may have had one too many drinks of Scotch, but the bigger problem was that I was a Vietnam rookie not yet used to finding ditches on flat surfaces. What a welcome!!! . Thankfully, this was my only injury during my entire tour. The 590th was a challenge from the start. Almost nothing worked, as it should. It was not that the men or NCOs were poorly trained – most were average or above average. They simply were not focused on the tasks before them and on making things happen. The Property Book maintained in the Unit Supply section of the Company which accounts for all the government property in the unit has like tools, trucks, trailers, test equipment, desks and personal equipment had not been updated for months. No inventories had been held. No hand receipts updated. No adjustments made. It was a disaster. It took us six months to clean it up. The mess hall didn’t work. During the first week there I went back in the kitchen area of the mess hall to check the sanitation. I was horrified. They had hired some Vietnamese women to scrub the dirty pots and trays and they were doing it in greasy water with dirty hands and little soap because the soap made rinsing too hard and used too much water. I told the Mess Sgt (Sgt Foshe) I was going to fire the Vietnamese and put Soldiers on a KP roster to clean up the dishes. He told me we were required to use the Vietnamese by some outfit in Long Binh and that he thought we would have a riot on our hands if we put soldiers on KP. I talked to the 1st Sgt (Sgt Lewis Ellis) about it and he agreed that something should change but cited the same concerns the Mess Sgt had shared. They had talked. I thought about it for a few days and then told the Mess Sgt to tell the women at the end of the day that they would no longer be required. After we let them go, the soldiers initially griped about it but there was no riot. �When they got to see how things were being done and the word got out, complaints about having to do KP settled right down. I did receive a call from a Colonel in Long Binh whose name I no longer recall who told me I had no authority to fire the women and directed me to hire them back. I told him how bad it was and that once I got something official in writing I would get the doctor and everyone in the chain of command involved if necessary to make my decision stick. He told me I would be hearing from him. I never did. One part of the mess hall team who was great was our baker. He was a drunk but oh how he could bake. Every evening about 1800 he would get started on his bottle and on the dough that would become wonderful muffins and pies and cakes. We protected him from himself and he helped the unit’s morale. I certainly could have disciplined him and should have helped him with his drinking problem but there was not enough time and the need for his good skills kept me from doing either. He was not a problem. I have forgotten his name. He provided a great service for his nation. Sgt Foshe ran the Mess Hall. He was from the south and at Christmas time his wife sent him bags of black-eyed-peas, which he prepared for us all on New Years Day. He and I had a hard time. I was very tough on him about sanitation because it seemed to me he was lax in this area. I had designated myself as the Unit Mess Officer so he had no other officer to deal with in regards to his duties. I remember I got on him one day about something fairly minor and he just broke down and cried telling me he was doing all he could for the men and I was too hard on him. He was right. I was hard him. The men deserved it. He was a great cook and a good man with a caring heart, but he had a hard time getting others to do their part. I awarded him the Bronze Star when he left to go home. He was astounded. This was the only Bronze Star I gave to an NCO while I was commander. Maintenance operations in the company were the strong suit. The Armament Section was run by Chief Warrant Officer William Ray. He was a crusty old soldier who had fought in Korea from start to finish – retired and had come back for the Vietnam fight. There was not a howitzer or small arms weapon he could not fix. He ran a tight section and trained his men well. He used to scare me half to death because he always carried hand grenades when on the road and he used to just keep them in his room. My fear was he would blow himself up or that someone might lose control from too much to drink or drugs and then go to get them to do something stupid. It never happened. The Service and Evacuation Section was run by CWO Will Horn and the Maintenance section by Sgt Jackson. Both were seasoned leaders and technically sound. They knew their men and led them strongly. Sgt Jackson was a black NCO who had come up the hard way. I really liked him. He used to call me “The Beaver” because he said I really knew how “chew” someone out. The Signal Section was run by CWO Smith. He knew his hardware cold but he was young. He was not as strong a leader as the others, but his people were more senior and did not require much in way of control. �I had two other Warrant Officers who held CWO Horn and Smith’s positions but they left for CONUS soon after I arrived and I never really got to know them. I do not recall their names. The biggest problem area in the company was our Technical Supply Section. This is a key organization for a maintenance unit because it provides repair parts not only to customer units but also to the other company direct support repair sections. When I took command the officer in charge was 1LT Paul F Lundgren. He was weak in supply knowledge and not a strong leader. To make matters worse, he had a weak NCO working for him. I do not recall the NCO’s name. When I was assigned 2nd LT John Harb as a Maintenance Platoon Leader, I relieved both1LT Lundgren and his NCO, and 2LT Harb became Technical Supply Officer. He was a quick study. The words in the written Justification for the Bronze Star Medal for Meritorious Achievement, that I received at the end of my command time, pretty well describes the condition of customer support when I assumed and when I left command of the 590th. The focus of the narrative is the major changes made in support operations between October and April. The text of the Justification approved by the Group Commander and written by the 29th General Support Group staff is quoted below in its entirety. It says I studied harder than I really did and makes me appear to be the “doer” when in truth the troops made it happen. The facts about what we accomplished together are right. Bronze Star for Achievement Justification - Start _______________________________________________________________ “1. CPT Craig E. Brodie, 097421, Ordnance Corps, United States Army, distinguished himself through an exceptionally meritorious achievement not involving participation in aerial flight in connection with military operations against the hostile force in the Republic of Vietnam during the period of 9 November 1968 to 10 April 1969 2. CPT Brodie assumed command of the 590th Maintenance Company (DS) (DIV) on 9 November 1968. The previous unit commander had been relieved of command, primarily due to the condition of the mechanized technical supply activity. Numerous deficiencies persisted for some time despite frequent Group staff visits and daily intensive management interests on the part of the Group commander. Specifically, the following deficiencies existed: (1) A growing backlog of about 37 multipack receipts, some of which were more than 40 days old; (2) Many of the NCR 500 programs required to update ledgers were not in use and others were being run out of sequence causing frustration to machine logic and multiplication of errors posted to the stock ledgers; (3) The physical storage locations were so inconsistent with the stock locator deck that an inventory accuracy check could not even be conducted (A 1st Log Command Project Count 1 �inventory accuracy check team arriving in late October at the 590th rescheduled that visit due to inability to locate sufficient stock to count for a statistical sample); (4) Specific procedures for conducting location surveys and inventories published by Group were being violated; (5) Customers of the 590th Maintenance Company were complaining directly to Group about their lack of support from the 590th; (6) No action had been taken to retrograde approximately 50 tons of serviceable excesses declared in July 1968; (7) No action had been taken to implement the nine digit location system as was directed in September; (8) During staff visits the number of personnel physically on hand working in the tech supply activity and the number of personnel assigned to company details could not be reconciled with the number assigned. 3. During the first 10 days after assuming command CPT Brodie corrected and completed the processing of the entire receipts backlog of 37 multipacks. After requesting a technical assistance visit from the Group staff , he developed a plan and established priorities for a technical supply activity improvement plan. At this time the 590th Maintenance Company received a 1st Log Command Instruct/Inspect team visit. This inspection came approximately two weeks after CPT Brodie assumed command. The team remained in the unit for seven days. The I/I team report was comprehensive and the general conclusion was that the effectiveness of the 590th technical supply activity was marginal. CPT Brodie used this report as a supplementary management tool making his improvement program more detailed. 4. CPT Brodie found it necessary to relieve the Tech Supply officer and NCO. He replaced the officer with a new 2nd LT who had no supply training or experience. No trained NCO could be obtained. CPT Brodie worked extensively with the new 2LT who became proficient under CPT Brodie’s experience and skill. All personnel in the tech supply activity became more proficient and motivated as a result of CPT Brodie’s leadership, interest and instruction. CPT Brodie provided detailed instructions to all personnel in the Tech Supply activity. He was able to do this because he spent many hours late at night studying the TMs and regulations governing the operation of the mechanized (NCR 500) DSU supply activity. By applying knowledge gained from this study and staff and I/I team visits combined with his experience and leadership ability, he was able to instruct and motivate each man in the activity. �5. By December 1968, with less than a month in Command, CPT Brodie had succeeded in retrograding the more than 50 tons of serviceable excess that had been on hand since July 1968l During this same time he directed a complete location survey implementing the nine digit location system in the process. 6. CPT Brodie placed the stock control section on strict computer program sequence making each update cycle complete and accurate. He reorganized the document flow through the receiving storage and stock control sections and established controls to preclude the loss of documents and accounting errors resulting from faulty sequence of document processing. As soon as all sections of the Technical Supply activity were using the current procedures, CPT Brodie directed another complete location survey and inventory to screen out errors occurring during the process of implementing correct procedures. 7. With his technical supply running activity smoothly, CPT Brodie turned his attention to managing his ASL stockage position. Concentrating on zero balances with dues out, he developed an aggressive program using RBX procedures on critical repair parts at zero balance with dues out. The results of this project combined with a tightly controlled and compressed program cycle was an increase in the rate of receipts from 180 in October 1968 to 2,200 in April 1969. The number of issues to customers improved during this period from 390 in October to 1,300 in April. The demand satisfaction rose from 16% in October to 49% in April 1969 while demand accommodation was increased from 61% to 80% during this same period. CPT Brodie increased the number of operational hours on the NCR 500 from 51 per week to 114 per week average. 8. The heavy lift yard was expanded and the warehouse bins were reconstructed under CPT Brodie’s direction to accommodate the increased amount of stock receipts and to provide more efficient utilization of storage space. 9. When CPT Brodie had his technical supply activity stockage position in shape, he initiated an aggressive customer assistance program. This has been manifested in visits to customer units and instruction provided by the 590th editing section. CPT Brodie brought the 590th Maintenance Company technical supply activity from a rated seventh and last in the Group in October 1968 to first and best of the 11 operating in April 1969. The I/I team from the 1st Log Command conducted a return visit to the 590th Maintenance Company in April. The I/I team declared the 590th technical supply activity the most improved in Vietnam, one of the best in country. CPT Brodie achieved this remarkable success in his Technical Supply activity while at the same time improving and maintaining all other sections of his company. This is evidenced in the maintenance portion of the April 1969 1ST Log Command I/I team report, the highly satisfactory grade received by the 590th on the annual 1st Log Command CMMI and the satisfactory mark on the AGI and the SSC maintenance survey team reports. 10. Through his professional knowledge outstanding managerial ability, untiring diligence, and his especially perceptive leadership, CPT Brodie has wrought achievements reflecting great credit upon himself, his unit, the 29th GS group and the U.S. Army.” �Bronze Star for Achievement Justification – End Other Events and Happenings Rocket Attacks – There were several rocket attacks but thankfully no one in the Company was injured. Everyone had an assigned bunker to go to when attacked. Sometimes we would get warning of a pending attack and sometimes it was a surprise. We would feed in small groups when warned of or under attack. One surprise attack I clearly recall. On nights when LSA Operations declared “all clear” many soldiers would gather to watch movies. February 23, 1969, was thought to “clear” so we had a movie in our company outdoor theater. When the movie ended, the men dispersed . About 10 minutes later a 107 MM rocket landed right in the center of the place they had been gathered. There was no prior warning of attack. No one was hurt. We were lucky and blessed. I have pictures of rocket warhead parts found following this attack. The next day a rocket landed in the 1011th S&S Company area killing two 1011th soldiers, wounding others and causing considerable damage. There were other rocket and mortar attacks but no soldier from the 590th was wounded or killed when I was the commander. Animals –One day I was walking through a troop bunk area when a monkey leaped on my shoulder and bit me. I grabbed his neck – he had a collar—got my driver and drove to the Vet. It turned out my skin was not broken and Monkey did not have rabies. Thankfully, it was only scary. Rabies were a very real problem on Bearcat.. About once every three months or so all loose animals inside the camp were hunted down and killed. A funny --- A soldier bought what he thought was a very special dog with leopard spots from a Vietnamese boy. He paid a high price. It turned out the dog was not so special. The spots were a paint job. On May 10th 1969 I ended my time as commander of the 590th in a change of command much like the one when I assumed command. As usual orders followed later. I was in command for 6 Months and 1 day. This was a normal company command tour in Vietnam. They tried to make changes every six months so that as many officers as possible would get a chance to command during a time of war. My first award of the Bronze Star was for Meritorious Achievement and it was announced on 9 June 1969 in US Army Support Command, Saigon Special Orders 653 for the period of duty extending from 9 November 1689 to 10 April 1968. The specific accomplishments were those identified in the Jjustification for the award included above. �Material Officer Bearcat LSA Once again my reassignment orders do not reflect what actually happened. US Army Support Command Special Orders 150 dated 30 May 1969 reassigned me from the 590th to Headquarters 29th General Support Group in Long Binh. There had been considerable discussion about my moving to the Materiel Office staff in Long Binh and I thought it was going to happen but in fact I never went there. I think Colonel Carter who was then commanding Bearcat LSA (Provisional) prevailed with the Group to keep me. In any case Special Orders 168 issued by the US Army Support Command Saigon dated 16 June 1969 officially assigned me as a Material Officer at Bearcat LSA with an effective date of 20 May 1969. Nature of the new job My time as Material Officer on the Bearcat LSA staff seemed anticlimactic after having commanded the 590th . Duties were more mundane. Responsibilities involved visiting units, data collection, report writing, working with the 29th Support Group on maintenance and supply issues, writing directives for the LSA commander and units and of course preparing briefings. Except for unit visits the responsibilities were fairly “dull stuff “ after command. My duties were further complicated by the fact that the LSA Commander, LTC Carter, did not want me messing around in actions involving the 590th. . This was a tough restriction because the 590th was performing about half of the LSA maintenance and related supply support mission. As a result I was only in the 590th company area a few times after leaving command. Social contact initiated by 590th folks did take place and softened the isolation. There was another Maintenance Company in the LSA with which I could ,and did, work with freely and often. That helped. This section of my story is much less detailed because the majority of my time was spent gathering, analyzing and presenting data and /or pushing paper. There were, however, some events I clearly remember. One that stands out is my first trip to Blackhorse Base Camp to visit the 551st LT Maintenance Company. We flew in Huey and because enemy fire was common between Bearcat and Blackhorse the pilot flew just above the treetops. This particular pilot had been up North where he had been shot at often. It was only my second or third ride in a chopper and none in the past were even close to being as scary. At the time I remember thinking it might be less risky to take a chance with the enemy than the top of some trees.--- but the choice was not mine.. In any case we made it safely but I was scared enough to look for another ride back to Bearcat and found one. It was not scary. In addition to maintenance and supply he 551st also supported a Graves Registration section assigned to the LSA which was regularly visited by LSA staff going to Black Horse. My first staff visit was my first experience with how the remains of those who fall in battle are handled. To this day I remain impressed with the respect shown and the careful and gentle processing of the bodies and personal effects I witnessed during visits. After initial processing , the bodies were flown out – I think to either Saigon or Bien Hoa for transport home. �Another experience I had involving operations at Blackhorse was the time we drove rather than take a chopper. I no longer recall the reason we had to drive but it was not normal to do that as there was VC activity all around Blackhorse. We went in a Jeep. I was the only officer. There were three NCOs whose names I do not recall. We left from Bearcat, went through Long Binh, to Xuan Loc, and then to Blackhorse. The trip up was uneventful as I have no memory other than stopping in Xuan Loc to see where an artillery unit had fired 105MM Howitzers at point blank range with “beehive” rounds and still were overrun. It was the return trip that was scary. It was getting late in the day and we were pushing the Jeep along when the engine cut out – and we were stopped dead in the road in the middle of a rubber plantation. No other vehicles were nearby and it was too late and too far to walk to where we knew there were troops. One NCO went to working on the engine and three of us set up a perimeter in case some VC showed up. It was so quiet . I will never forget it. Finally , after about 20 minutes , the Jeep engine started and we were out of there!!! A wire in the distributer turned out to be the problem. We were very, very lucky. I took an R&R to Hong Kong in September of 1969. I called Lil at home after staying in a warm shower for about an hour. It was during this phone call that I learned of her Dad’s battle with cancer and the expectation of his death. Hard stuff for both of us. Mostly I did some sightseeing and shopping and resting. I bought Lil some lovely cloth which she would make into a dress after I got home. My second award (First Oak Leaf Cluster) of the Bronze Star medal was announced on 26 September 1969 in US Army Support Command, Saigon General Orders 1252. This award for Meritorious Service covered the period November 1968 – October 1969. This was a standard award given to Officers who performed well in support of combat operations throughout their tour of duty in Vietnam. Coming Home On 9 September 1969 US Army Support Command, Saigon issued Special Orders 252 directing my reassignment from Vietnam to the US Army Ammunition Procurement and Supply Agency in Joliet, Illinois. My date for leaving Vietnam was established as 3 November 1969 with a reporting date in Joliet of NLT 8 December 1969. These orders allowed me 66 lbs of air baggage and an additional 134 lbs of excess baggage. I was to report to the Replacement Detachment NLT 24 hours prior to aircraft departure with my ID Card, ID Tags, shot record and 8 malaria pills. US Army Support Command modified my original reassignment orders: Saigon Special Orders 281 dated 8 October 1969. These orders adjusted my Vietnam departure date to 27 October 1969 and my Joliet, Illinois reporting date to 1 December 1969. �I left Bearcat for the last time at 0900 hrs on October 26, 1969. We went by jeep to the USARV Replacement Detachment. We got there about 1000 hrs. I was back where I had started. I was wearing my combat uniform. My weapon and steel pot and flack jacket were taken back to the supply room at Bearcat. I processed out and spent the night. The next day, October 27, 1969, I took a shower in the afternoon. I threw out all my fatigue clothes - my hat, uniform, boots – everything -- and put on the uniform I wore on the way in to Vietnam. I had not worn it in a year except to try it on to be sure it still fit. We got on the bus and at about 1600 hrs we got to the airfield at Bien Hoa. Same building and the same distractions as when I arrived, only this time the focus was on the plane approaching the departure point. My freedom bird! We cheered the new arrivals and boarded. We lifted off about 1700 hrs. Our flight this time went to Kyota Japan and then to Anchorage Alaska, where we were greeted in the gate area by of group of women who also provided home-made cookies and coffee for all. What a kindness. Then we were off to Travis Air Force Base. We arrived in Travis just before midnight on 27 October 1969. I called Lil and Carol and a group of us took a Taxi to San Francisco International Airport. Carol and her new husband Greg met me and we went to their apartment in San Jose. I again called Lil and had a short rest. We arose early and I put on civilian clothes because at Travis we were told flying in uniform might result in harassment by members of the peace movement. By 0800 Greg, Carol and I were back in San Francisco at the airport to catch my flight bound for Chicago. I arrived at O’Hare at about 1400 in the afternoon, Called Li, and put on my uniform. I flew out of Chicago at about 1530 and arrived in Kalazamoo at about 1615 in the afternoon. Lil met me and drove me to our apartment at 3485 Kenbrook Court where I saw my son Keith for the first time. He was then 5 ?? months old. My first words to him were ”aren’t you something.” I had made the journey. It is a part of my life forever. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brodie, Craig (Interview outline and video), 2014 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brodie, Craig Description An account of the resource Craig Brodie was born in Plattsburgh, New York in 1941 and grew up Newtown, Connecticut. He attended the University of Vermont and Army ROTC there and received his commission in 1963 He served in Germany with the 4th Medium Tank Battalion of the 68th Armored Regiment as well as the 3rd Squadron of the 8th Cavalry participating in training maneuvers and border patrol of the East/West German border. He then served at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds and deployed to Vietnam in 1968. He commanded the 590th Maintenance Company at Bearcat, a base outside of Saigon. After Vietnam he served in different positions in the US and Korea, and retired at the rank of colonel. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-03-06 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BrodieC1577V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/608d346d90886e39000eb865b69d7ef8.mp4 d6155e87765d8da09ca94b1112f17b19 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/848abae08aee24479888300df927140b.pdf a33ec2fc769fbf309dcd49472996c7be PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Phil Brockschmidt (01:24:36) (00:25) Background Information • Phil played football a lot in school and did not enjoy studying • He also liked hunting, fishing, and working on the farm • He was also involved in track, basketball, and the student council (6:05) Pearl Harbor • Phil heard news of the attack on the radio from Franklin Roosevelt • He was only 14 years old and already wanted to join the service • His mother was petrified by news of the attack (7:15) Joining the Service • Phil was only 15 years old and passed all the necessary tests • They told him he would need his father’s signature to join at such a young age • He chose the Navy because his father had been in the Navy during World War I • Indoctrination took place in Detroit (9:00) Boot Camp • Phil attended boot camp at Great Lakes Naval Base in Chicago • He was in detention camp for six weeks • They had to get up every day at 4:00am and spend hours marching • Phil continued with weapons training in Virginia (16:20) Waiting to go Overseas • Phil took a train to Brooklyn • He waited along with about 10,000 other men to be assigned to a ship (21:15) Russia • Phil was a gunner on a large merchant ship that traveled in a convoy • They were hit by a torpedo from a U-boat and had to transfer onto a different ship • Soon after, the other ship was hit also • They were traveling to Russia to deliver oil • He thought that the Russians were mean, ugly, and unpleasant • There were many Merchant Marines on his ship • It took about 80 days for a round trip to Russia • There were no duties on the ship and the trip was very boring (33:45) Brooklyn • After dropping off the oil, they would always return to Brooklyn to reload • The men got about 5 days off for liberty �• Phil said he spent his time off “chasing women” in New York (34:50) SS Terrain • They loaded up this oil tanker and headed for Rio De Janeiro • Then they got an emergency call from North Africa • They turned near Brazil and headed for North Africa • The Queen Elizabeth was near the Rock of Gibraltar and desperately needed oil • The ship had been stranded and carrying thousands of men (42:20) US Navy Air Corps • Phil took a train from New York to Main and was transferred in the Navy Air Corps • They were working on boxes of parts for building airplanes that would eventually be shipped all over the world • He then began building lockers for various bunkers • None of the men from the Navy enjoyed their new position in the Air Corps (47:20) Aviation Ordinance Squadron • Phil did not like his position so he volunteered to be a striker in the Aviation Ordinance Squadron • They built practice targets for those training on planes and also helped them to practice shooting • Phil found flying to be boring because they often did nothing for three hours on the plane • Phil was called for detachment duty in Bermuda (58:30) Rhode Island • Phil was transferred back to the US from Bermuda • His girlfriend in Michigan was murdered and he had time off to go to her funeral • He was called to testify in a trial, but the Navy would not allow him to do so • He was then transferred back to Maine and then went on to Massachusetts where he worked as an ordinance man for three different aircraft (01:00:03) Cuba • Phil had been on his way to Cuba for an assignment, but the ship had stopped in Miami for a few days • Phil witnessed a bar fight in which a man died • He then had to testify in a court martial trial while the other men continued on to Cuba • Afterwards Phil took a plane to Cuba, but found he was weeks behind the other men who had left before him (01:05:35) Puerto Rico • Phil was transferred to Puerto Rico because he was behind on training • Here he was a senior ordinance man �• • The other men there in the Navy were scared to fly, but they were required to do so four hours a month Phil took on their hours in exchange for more time off when he was not flying (01:08:50) Discharge Points • Phil had received enough points to be discharged from service • It was the end of the war and his squadron was disbanded • He went back to Miami and was told that he had to make his own travel arrangements back to Chicago to be discharged � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brockschmidt, Philip E. (Interview outline and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brockschmidt, Philip E. Description An account of the resource Phil Brockschmidt knew that he wanted to join the armed service after Pearl Harbor was attacked and joined the Navy when he was only 15 years old. He took many long trips traveling in a convoy to Russia to deliver oil. Phil was eventually transferred into the Navy Air Corps and was disappointed with the transfer. In the Navy Air Corps Phil traveled to Rio De Janeiro, Brazil, Africa, Miami, Cuba, and Puerto Rico working as an ordinance man. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-10-18 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BrockschmidtP Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f94fb7ed75d8c69ff25eed70394df60e.mp4 f7465cfab8ad257a765b8f9792277b41 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/089e0a3fa9d1419975942ccb50293d39.pdf 21839a2c15d20099afb07fc46e3c3b2a PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW JOE BRINN Born: Portsmouth, Virginia Resides: Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, February 23, 2013 Interviewer: Now Mr. Brinn, can you begin by giving us a little basic background on yourself? To start with, where and when were you born? I was born February 17th 1950 in Portsmouth, Virginia. Interviewer: What did your family do at that time? My dad just got out of the service, he was in the Merchant Marines during WWII and my uncle was living in Michigan and proposed to him to move to Michigan to seek work in the automotive industry, which was obviously flourishing back then. I was two years old and we relocated to Ithaca, Michigan, and I resided there until I was about fourteen years old. Interviewer: Where did you move after that? We lived on a farm and my dad did odd things. He worked at a steel mill almost his entire life, plus we had a full time farm, and then about, like I said, the age of fourteen they decided it was time to move on and we moved to the Rochester area, they bought a home and relocated there. 1:15 Interviewer: What kind of work was he doing then? He was still working in a steel mill. Interviewer: Did you finish high school? 1 �I did not, I actually quit school at sixteen years old, and I met, at the time, the girl that was going to be my wife, we were fifteen and due to unusual circumstances we decided we wanted to get married and we got married at sixteen. We both quit school and started a life. Interviewer: What kind of work did you do then? At sixteen it was tough, I did odd jobs, worked for contractors, did tire work, made pizzas, anything you could do at sixteen years old to make a living for your family. Interviewer: How long did you continue on that before you went into the military? 2:02 I was seventeen when I decided to enter into the military, so basically I worked for about a year and then I needed to have something where I had steady income coming in. The Vietnam War was going on and I anticipated that I‟d be going to Vietnam as soon as I applied for the military, but it was something that I was willing to do. Interviewer: What year was that? I went into the service in March of 1967. Interviewer: At that time, what did you know about Vietnam and the Vietnam War? I knew very little, to be honest with you, other than what was portrayed on TV. I‟d catch a few newscasts, but I really didn‟t know anything about it. Growing up as this kind of farm boy, I was kind of backwoods and didn‟t understand a lot about the real world. So, I thought going into the military, or even going to Vietnam, was an adventurous thing, because I‟d never been away from home and this was going to be unique and different and it was. 3:08 2 �Interviewer: What did your family think of this idea? They were not too keen on me going into the service, especially my mother, she was very upset. She understood what was going on in Vietnam from what she saw on TV and was deathly afraid that I was not going to return. Interviewer: Where did they send you then for basic training? I went to Fort Knox, Kentucky for basic training. Interviewer: How would you describe that facility and the training experience of basic? It was so much different than what it is now. It was a rough time, and I‟d never been so mistreated in my life. Yelled and cussed at, name called, and up at the crack of dawn, which I was used to anyway. 4:00 But, I would have to go run three or four miles every morning carrying packs, and it didn‟t matter what the weather was like outside, you were still out there doing your marches and drills and training. I was a little taken aback, I was a little worried that I was not going to be able to complete it. Interviewer: What kind of physical shape were you in at the time? Actually, I was in pretty good shape, being a farm boy, although I never worked out and never went to gyms. When you get up at five o‟clock to feed the chickens and the hogs and you work for two or three hours before going to school and getting back from school you go right back to the farm to work. I was actually in pretty good shape, and I was definitely thinner, I was about a hundred and thirty five pounds. Interviewer: Did you have much trouble adjusting to the discipline and all the stuff that goes with army life? 3 �Actually no, the discipline, I thought, was good, actually, for me. I was fairly disciplined anyway. 5:00 My mother and father taught me well, they believed in discipline and back then it was a stick and a whip, so I knew not to backtalk, or do anything wrong, and to treat people as they should be treated. So, that actually did fairly well for me in the service and, actually, throughout my entire career in the service. Interviewer: Was there a point in basic training when you began to feel you were getting the hang of this and you could do it? Yeah, actually about three or four weeks in, I had a very tall, muscular, black drill sergeant and he seemed to take a liking to me, I guess because of my backwoods thinking. I didn‟t smoke and I didn‟t drink, so he kind of took me aside and would give me hints after hours. “You need to look at this, you need to try this and this is what you need to work on”. 6:01 I guess that one on one experience from him, even though he was one mean SOB during the drills; he treated me kindly and with respect and that gave me a new focus on it. I realized this was not going to be as hard as I thought it was. Interviewer: Where did they send you after basic? What did you do then? I thought I was going to Vietnam, but I was told, at that time, you had to be eighteen years old to go to Vietnam. My aptitude test, showed very well, mechanical ability, so they sent me to Fort Rucker to train as a crew chief on helicopters. Interviewer: Where is Fort Rucker? Fort Rucker, Alabama Interviewer: Crew chief on helicopters, what does that kind of job consist of? Well, that was performing the day to day maintenance. Keeping the helicopters in tip top shape, and it was, actually, a good part of all the maintenance that was required, even to 4 �the point of what they call depot maintenance, going into the third echelon of maintenance. 7:06 Your sole purpose in life was to maintain that helicopter daily and then fly with it when it flew. Helping the pilots land and take off safely, and then if you had mechanical problems, take care of those as soon as possible. Interviewer: Now, what type, or types, of helicopters did you train in? At that time, they were UH-1 Delta models. Interviewer: Can you describe that for a lay person? What did it look like and what does it do? It was a standard helicopter that was used during Vietnam. It was made by Bell Helicopters, it carried, roughly, eight to ten passengers in the back, it had bench row seats, and then tow cubby holes, one on each that the gunner and crew chief would sit in, and then the pilot and co-pilot, both of them having control of the aircraft. It was a single rotor, fully articulated system, with a tail rotor. 8:02 Interviewer: They would have fifty caliber machine guns on each side? M-60 machine guns Interviewer: M-60, fifty calibers? No, 7.62 M-60 machine guns [.30 caliber] Interviewer: So basically, in addition to being the repair man, you also do double duty as a gunner if the occasion arises? Not in non-war time, or in flying CONUS [continental US] or in Europe, but in Vietnam, that is again, your primary function is to be the crew chief, but when you flew, you reverted to being a gunner. Interviewer: How long of a process was that for you? 5 �That was about two and a half month training after basic training. Then after I came out of what they call AIT, Advanced Infantry Training, I picked up the MOS and I stayed at Fort Rucker until I was—no actually—I‟m sorry, we moved—no, I stayed at Fort Rucker after AIT. 9:12 I continued to do training and flying as a crew chief only. Interviewer: Did they send you to Vietnam from there? What happened? Yeah, I got orders about a month after my eighteenth birthday, which was kind of unique. I assumed it was going to be coming. Crew chiefs and gunners were in high demand because of the high fatality and injury rate in Vietnam. You‟re in the direct line of fire, so they rotated those out fairly quickly and needed replacements, so within two and a half or three weeks after my eighteenth birthday, I received notification that I was going to Vietnam and had my orders to deploy in my hand, probably, a week later. Interviewer: Did they let you go home before they sent you overseas? 10:01 No, and actually the last thing they wanted to have you do is to leave their control at that time because there were still a lot of people that were in the military for other reasons and had no intentions of going to Vietnam, or when the time came they had to go were going AWOL, so once you had your orders for Vietnam they took tight control. Interviewer: Now what’s the physical process by which they get you out to Vietnam, how do they get you there? My case was rather unique. Instead of going as an individual where they deploy, where you actually report to duty station, they would load you up with your equipment and then put you on a plane and send you over there; they sent me to Fort Campbell, Kentucky for thirty days as a deployment unit. They were building up a brand new unit and they were bringing in troops, some with experience, and some like myself with only a year 6 �experience, some straight out of AIT. 11:03 After they got as many people as they needed to fill the positions, they packed us all up on a C-141 with our duffle bags on our backs, rifles in hand , helmets on our heads, and packed just like sardines in a 141 and flew us straight to Vietnam. Interviewer: Was this the unit then that you served with while you were over there? Actually no, it‟s—what they were doing in Vietnam when these new units had been activated and arrived in Vietnam, the last thing they wanted was to have an entire unit of brand new soldiers that never served any time in Vietnam whatsoever, so as soon as you arrived you‟d go to “in processing”, and they would basically take about three quarters of those new people and scatter them around the country to the existing units, and then rotate those troops that had already been there for five, six, eight months, and put them in the new unit that was arriving, so they could help train. 12:08 Interviewer: They’re doing the best they can to combine the experience with the new resources however well they wanted to work it. Exactly Interviewer: Where did you first land in Vietnam? We landed in—actually we landed in Pleiku, which was unusual. Normally troops would arrive in Saigon and be bused, or trucked, to their unit. Our unit, since we were a complete unit, we landed right in Pleiku, which was an army airfield large enough to handle C-141‟s easily. They off loaded us there and again, with our duffle bags, and rifles, and helmets in tow, we went right over to an in briefing, in a bleacher setting, and from there went right into three days of Vietnam orientation. 13:00 7 �Interviewer: What was your first impression of Vietnam when you get off the plane? Did you notice anything distinctive or not? Landing at an army airfield really didn‟t look a whole lot different other than you realize the instead of concrete or asphalt runways, they were what they call PSP, or metal runways, and bunkers everywhere, sandbags, so you immediately realize that you‟re in hostile territory. It was hot and humid, and growing up mostly in Michigan I was not ready for that immediate temperature change. It kind of sucked the breath right out of you as soon as you open the door and step on the ground. Interviewer: What kind of information, or orientation, did you get those first three days, what did they do at that point? That was pretty intense, and we actually received training on the--even though we‟d had basic training on how to fire the M-60. 14:06 They now gave you a little more detailed weapon knowledge and how to use a weapon in combat. The actually ran us through a combat scenario. They went through medical emergencies, how to handle bullet wounds, and then what to expect in Vietnam from when you get to your unit, when you plan to leave, what your rotation date would be, and all in all it was pretty good information. I don‟t think a lot of troops received that because I was coming direct to a unit and we were an entire unit, the training was pretty intense and pretty knowledgeable. Interviewer: What specific unit were you assigned to when you got through that process? The unit I went to was--it was actually called the 480th TC, which was a transportation corps, depot maintenance, so instead of being a crew chief, I was actually being sent over there to perform engine overhauls and transmission overhauls. 15:11 But again, 8 �because they needed crew chiefs, as soon as they looked at my MOS, when I arrived there, they realized that not only do I have a maintenance background, but I was also a crew chief engineer, so they immediately plucked me out of that and put me in a, at that time it was A Troop 77th Air Cav, assigned to, or attached to, the 4th Infantry Division. Interviewer: What was your experience like once you joined that unit? It was very unique and I had never been in that kind of environment before, very cliquish, people—they looked at newbies as unusual characters, and they didn‟t really want to associate with you when you first came out there. 16:00 Again, it‟s that mentality as I picked that up again later on, that you don‟t want to make too good of friends because that friend might not be around too long, whether it be from an injury or death, or rotation. So, you develop very short term relationships, and then you find yourself finding one or two guys that would become close to you, but the rest of the group, you just kind of stood off and weren‟t that close with them. Interviewer: Physically were they placed at Pleiku or were they out in the field? We were placed out of Pleiku, actually at Camp Enari. There were three base camps at Pleiku and the 4th Infantry Division was headquartered at Camp Enari and our unit was kind of a--whatever the worst place was at Camp Enari, that‟s where they put this unit, you know. We weren‟t really part of the 4th Division, so what the division personnel looked at us as, “We really don‟t want them, but we gotta have them type of thing, so put them over here away from us”. 17:08 So, we lived in an almost swampy condition, and it was constantly under water and a sandbag with a wooden hooch, which was out billets where we slept. It actually, they put this up just before we got there, so they had wood sides with a tent top and sandbags all around, but a miserable location. I think I saw a 9 �shower once every week, week and a half and even though we were in base camp you‟re fortunate to get a shower. Interviewer: What did you actually do for the 4th Infantry you were assigned to? What was your job? I was again a kind of unique thing. The 4th Infantry division was a—they had a grid of areas they were responsible for and they would assign us what they call a “hunt, kill mission”. We were an Air Cav unit, so we had our own infantry assigned to our unit, which was—so we would carry our own infantry with us wherever we went. 18:10 We had a scout platoon, which was the 0-86 Scout Birds, we had our own gunships and at the time they were C model gunships and later replaced with Cobras. Then the lift platoon, which I was assigned to as a gunner crew chief, were the UH-1, at that time, D model Hueys to, basically, carry the infantry to the locations and drop them off. The 4th Infantry Division would give us several grids and we would work those grids doing hunt and search and when we would locate the enemy, insert our ground troops and use the gunships to suppress fire and kill the enemy. Interviewer: If you were air mobile and the rest of the 4th Division was not, did they give you guys the worst jobs, or the ones that were the farthest out? 19:04 We worked further away. We would sometimes go and spend thirty to forty-five days at firebases, because where we needed to work the grid, we needed to do the hunt, kill, and search teams, would be too far remote for us to get fuel. They would relocate us to firebases and we would work out of those firebases where we could have some security, get our fuel, eat meals, and fly out to our grid, to work those grids during the day and 10 �come back, sometimes at night, sometimes we‟d find other areas that we could spend the night at and provide our own security with our own infantry. Interviewer: Now, when you get to where you—were you assigned to a specific helicopter with a specific crew or did they move you around? How did that work? Pilots would, in most cases, rotate around to different birds. A crew chief was assigned to a helicopter and that was your helicopter for the length of your tour. 20:01 I remember the last three of my aircraft. It‟s pretty much what you remembered, everybody remembered, the last of the three was 017, and that‟s the bird I flew every day, and it was almost every day, very seldom did you get a day off. Then I had a gunner assigned to me. Even though I was a gunner, you needed to have a gunner on the other side and he would maintain and take care of your guns for you while I would do the maintenance on the aircraft. You would go out to the aircraft, do all the maintenance, prepare for flight, the pilots would come out, and some pilots would try to stick with the bird because they would get to know it. Every aircraft had unusual characteristics that were unique to that aircraft, some had a lot of power, and some were underpowered, some maneuvered rather well, some had vibrations that nobody wanted to fly, so sometimes the luck of the draw, the pilots, when they would get there, their mission commander would assign them their aircraft, so sometimes we‟d get the same pilots several days in a row and sometimes we‟d get a new pilot. 21:06 Interviewer: Do you remember the first time you went out on a combat mission? Vaguely, it—again the first thirty to forty-five days went real, real quick. I didn‟t— again I wasn‟t real sure of what was going on, I still had my country background and I wasn‟t used to doing the things they did and how they did them, so the first thirty to 11 �forty-five days I don‟t remember a whole lot about it. It just seemed like you were just lying down and going to sleep and they were getting you up, or you were listening to rockets coming in at night, and I just wasn‟t prepared for that. You couldn‟t get to sleep, you, again, didn‟t have any friendships, so it took a while, almost two months, before I developed some good friendships, and then we started, for lack of a better term, fun with the assignment. 22:06 It wasn‟t any fun the first couple of months. Interviewer: You really, kind of, had to learn the ropes and figure out what exactly was going on, what you had to do, and that kind of thing? Yeah, it was—they really, as a crew chief, they pretty much threw you to the wolves. Here‟s an aircraft, you‟re a crew chief, here‟s a log book, do your thing. Interviewer: So, you were supposed to know what to do and go and do it? Pretty much so, because you were flying in combat, and I was, after my initial three days of training, and then upon reassignment, they went through a kind of a basic “what you need to do for the unit, this is where you sign in, this is the mess hall”, and the next day I was on a mission. Interviewer: Now, were the missions themselves, were they dangerous, where you getting shot at and shot down? Constantly, and I brought back pictures of my tour and I‟ve got pictures where we were riddled with bullet holes. 23:07 There was almost as many patches on an aircraft as there was the initial sheet metal for the aircraft. Interviewer: Now, the helicopters that you would fly, did they ever actually get shot down? 12 �A number of them primarily scout birds, which were—their sole mission in life was to go out there and be a flying target. There would be two small helicopters, room for four people, but you‟d only have a pilot and then a scout in the right seat, and some of those had mini guns, and some of them wouldn‟t have mini guns, the scout would use a M-16. But, they would fly around, low level, by the top of the trees, very slow, intentionally to draw fire. As a scout you‟re hoping to identify hostiles before they identify you, but obviously, they can hear you coming for several miles around. 24:04 So, when tracers would come up towards you that‟s the first idea that you‟ve identified the enemy, when you‟d see the red tracers coming at you. They would pop smoke and get out of the area as fast as possible and call in the gunships to suppress fire, and then we‟d be at basecamp somewhere, our infantry, we‟d carry as many as thirteen in an aircraft, fully loaded with their packs and guns, when it was really only rates for nine or ten people, not including their packs, so we were usually flying with overweight conditions all of the time, again with high humidity, high altitudes, and we‟d get a call from the commanding control aircraft that they hit a hot spot and call in the infantry. 25:00 We‟d actually find a LZ, go in and land and let the infantry off and report back to basecamp and wait for them to call us back to pick them up. Interviewer: Were you basically with the same unit for the full tour or did you rotate out to a different unit at some point, or was this pretty much what you did for the full year? I did that for one year, yeah, same unit, same guys other than what they call deros, people were—because they staggered them, putting new people, old people, and some people 13 �who had extended their tours remained in those units, so you‟re constantly having people rotate in and out, but I stayed in that unit for the entire year. Interviewer: How would you generally characterize the morale of the unit? The kinds of attitudes the men take toward what they were doing and that sort of thing. Surprisingly, our unit, because we were a small unit and we had a mission and everybody had a pretty good idea of what they needed to do, and we had to watch our own backs, it was pretty good for the most sake. 26:10 Some of our infantry, I think, were a little upset they didn‟t—most of the infantry were your draftees, and most of the people that were pilots or crew chiefs either volunteered for the service or had little better jobs than the infantry where you‟re out there ground pounding and in the direct line of fire whenever they insert you until the time they pick you up, but overall the morale was pretty good. Interviewer: Were some phases of that year more intense than others in terms of the amount, and kind, of fighting going on? At times—there was one time we went to Ban Me Thuot, which was a basecamp in the central highlands and it was a hot bed, the entire area. 27:00 there were a lot of Vietcong coming across the border from Laos and, at that time, we were not allowed to fly into Laos or Cambodia, so there was no way to prevent these Vietcong from coming in, so they dispatched us down to a base camp and we stayed there for almost ninety days working out of tents, and cold meals and no showers, sour milk, the whole gambit. It seemed like every day we were flying into hot areas. When we came back almost every aircraft would have bullet holes, we had a number of people wounded, primarily the infantry. A couple of pilots had been wounded, several scout birds had been shot down , 14 �and that ninety days was pretty tough and then on top of that they [North Vietnamese sappers] actually came in and infiltrated out camp at night and while we were sleeping in tents, were throwing satchel charges into our tents. 28:01 Being a base camp, this was actually being run by the Air Force instead of the army and security was a little lax, so they actually came in and ran through the areas throwing--satchel charges are, basically, bags filled with C-4 or explosives and the would pull the pin or light the fuse and throw them into the tents where everybody was sleeping. Interviewer: Did the people at the base figure that the Cavalry guys would provide the security for them? No, we were usually gone all the time. The air force provided their own security, it‟s just that this was a fairly new base camp and nothing was really set up very well. Nothing against the Air Force, but they intended to do things a little different than the Army. The Army would go in and set up an airfield, set up security and start working, where the air force would come in and set up their officers club, their NCO club and their showers, and later down the road they would, maybe, get to security and the other things that were necessary. 29:05 Interviewer: Now, were you ever actually in the camp when one of these attacks took place? At night, yeah Interviewer: So, what do you do when that starts? Run for cover, run for cover—I mean they‟re going off—fortunately for me I was third tent in the line, so the first two tents, the satchel charges had already gone off and by the time they got to ours we were already running for cover. You just—there wasn‟t a whole 15 �lot you could do, because you didn‟t know—it‟s dark time and you don‟t know who the enemy is, you can‟t see anything, just find some bunkers or sand bags to get behind and lay low and wait for the all clear. Interviewer: Were they generally making trouble or were they trying to get to the helicopters? They were trying to blow up the helicopters, yeah. Interviewer: Did that ever work? Not while I was there, no, we were pretty fortunate. After I left the unit they did. My unit relocated and they were able to go in and actually destroy about fifty percent of the helicopters one evening. 30:02 But, while we were there, at that time, there were—our infantry actually caught the infiltrators after about the fourth or fifth satchel charge, and they had already caught the ones, and killed the ones that were going towards the aircraft, so they had, basically, three or four teams go after ammo bunkers, go after personnel, and go after aircraft. Interviewer: We’re talking about some of the actual experiences and you had a phase where you spent about ninety days away from the base at Pleiku, and faced some intense activity. Was this a—now you’re there, during your serving over there, that’s when the Tet offensive took place. Correct Interviewer: Were you in Pleiku or were you in some other area? No, actually we were assigned a couple of areas. Actually, shortly after I arrived in Vietnam, it was probably within thirty days, we were called in at night, probably about midnight, or one o‟clock in the morning, that a base camp not far from us was overrun. 16 �31:10 We loaded up, of course you always carried weapons and ammunition ready to go, so we loaded up even more because they said that the base camp wasn‟t going to last more than an hour and we had to get there, and we had a thirty minute flight to get there, a place called Dak To. We arrived there and we had a couple of aircraft put what they call firelights, they were twenty-seven landing lights all pooled together in a big circle and they would mount these inside of a helicopter and it was like a huge search light. So, we flew those out there and lit the area. They were shooting flares off, but you can‟t have flares going off into the artillery rounds with helicopters coming in for support. 32:00 We lit up that area as we made our approaches in to see what the problem was and there were literally thousands of Vietcong rushing the side of this base camp, which was actually on the side of a tall hill with strands of barbed wire, actually eight strands at different levels, claymore mines, trip flares, and everything you could think of there to protect them, and there were literally over a thousand, if not more, Vietcong rushing them and they had already rushed onto the fifth strand of barbed wire by the time we got there, with only three to go before they had actually overrun the basecamp. We lit that area up with the lights because we could see that—later on I realized that this was a tactic the Vietcong had done much like Chinese and the Koreans had done during previous wars, sacrificing their bodies to go further up the hill, laying themselves on top of barbed wire, knowing full well that they were to be pummeled with machine gun fire. 33:07 They would, basically, just throw themselves until the next group, or next wave, could go the next leg up the hill. We laid down suppressive fire for four to six hours, constantly go back and refuel, reload and go back and continue to lay fire until daylight and then it just seemed to disappear, and that was my first actual gun battle. I realized if I encountered 17 �these Vietcong as a single soldier, they impressed me as somebody willing to do anything, whether there was a cause, or their country, or whatever; it was going to be a touch year ahead. Interviewer: Did you see much of the South Vietnamese military personnel? We had several imbedded with us, both as interrogators and some as interpreters. 34:04 We did a lot with the Montagnards, which was a group of tribesmen, I mean as backwoods as you‟ll ever get, loincloths, using crossbows and bow and arrows to hunt with. The Vietcong hated them and were killing them, so the military realized that early on in the war and would go in and befriend them, and provide them with weapons, and they were true hunters. They also hated the Vietcong because they realized their lives were at stake if they did not try to wipe them out. Because we were a small unit, we could work with them, and they would actually go flying with us and point out suspected Vietcong areas. For the most part they were very helpful and you could trust them, but the South Vietnamese soldiers weren‟t as trustworthy. 35:07 Interviewer: Did you have any kind of firsthand experience of that, or awareness of things that happened with the unit as far as that? Not actually, just what everybody talked about. They would give us intel and by the time you got there, there was absolutely nothing there, so the intel wasn‟t as great as it should have been. They weren‟t as dedicated, I don‟t think, to the cause as the Americans were. But, on the other hand, the actual—and those, I think, were more the inline troops. Many of them were drafted and put into service, and they didn‟t want to be there any more than some of the U.S. military. There was one occasion, our infantry had captured a couple of Vietcong and they were being interrogated by the Vietnamese regulars, and some of those 18 �could be extremely tough. 36:08 I mean, they would go to the extreme on occasion and the interrogations were pretty extreme. They got one of the Vietcong to say he knew where an ammo stash was where they could find a bunch of weapons, and some Vietcong were hiding out. They dispatched my aircraft and put me on board as the gunner to go locate this guy, with this guy‟s help, but to be honest, I think this guy was just saying whatever he could say, because we didn‟t every really find anything. I was over in the cubby hole manning my gun and I looked back and the Vietnamese regular was interrogating rather intensely. I looked back to patrol my area and the last thing I remember was the Vietcong coming out of the side of the aircraft. 37:04 They say he jumped, but I‟m not sure that was the case, but there was no proof to that matter. That was how the nationals sometimes treated the enemy in combat. Interviewer: Kind of a reminder of what a nasty business war can sometimes be, especially a civil war, and that’s somewhat what that was. Now, over the course of that year that you’re serving there with your Cavalry, did the aircraft that you were serving with, or the crew you were serving with, did they take casualties, or were you mostly the machine guys? No, many of our aircraft were damaged or—I‟ve got pictures of bullet holes coming through—I had an M-60 machine gun and, of course, we‟d man that and we‟d go into a hot LZ and we‟d fire, lay suppressive fire, and taking hits. 38:07 You could actually hear them popping into the side of the aircraft, whizzing by your head and, again, being a backwood young kid I thought I was invincible, so—they would provide you with what they called at that time “chicken plates”, or armor plating, but I never wore that, I just felt invincible and nothing was going to harm me. I would go out there and I would stand on 19 �the side of the skids going into hot LZ‟s because I thought I could do a better job of finding the enemy and laying down suppressive fire with using Thompson sub-machine guns or a grease gun, or just my M-16 with bullets whizzing all around me. One time I locked my M-60 into place and six rounds came up through where my head would have been over as I was firing the M-60, and I‟d locked it and laid back and six rounds came right through that, right through our fuel tank, right through—I mean there was a pattern of six bullet holes right there. 39:00 There were a number of occasions where troops were injured and we had to go in a pick up our infantry in hot LZ‟s. It seemed like most of the time, especially that time of the war, we seemed to be taking a lot more casualties and more hits than some of the other units further south. Interviewer: Now, did you, yourself, ever get hit? I never got hurt and I guess that‟s why I thought I was invincible. I had many close calls, but—we landed on one LZ to pick up our troops, a hot LZ, they were being fired at, we knew it was hot, we came in and we touched down on the ground, the troops were jumping in and a mortar landed about four feet in front of us. It took out all the windshields, the glass, the side doors were all buckled, the front of the aircraft was completely buckled, we had shrapnel everywhere, yet the aircraft was still running. 40:01 We were still--I was actually hanging onto guys that were hanging on to the skids trying to get into the aircraft to get out of there, it was such a hot LZ. Rounds were going off everywhere, Willie Pete [white phosphorous] grenades, and that mortar went off, and even wearing a, at that time it was called an SPH-4 helmet, which was supposed to be an anti-ballistic helmet for flying, the noise was so loud that I couldn‟t hear anything. The pilots took off even when the windshields were gone and the nose buckled, we knew we 20 �had to get out of there because other aircraft were coming in behind us to pick up their troops, and as soon as we took off the aircraft shuddered and shook like we thought we were going to fall right out of the sky. It was all we could do to get in the air, and I‟m hanging on to, actually one guy, I‟m hanging onto his ammo belt to keep him from falling out of the aircraft. 41:00 They were just hanging everywhere to get out of there. We probably had fourteen or fifteen troops on board and, again, we never carried more than thirteen, and even that was a tough go. I think we got about fifty-five knots the aircraft was shaking so bad we thought it was just going to fly apart. Cobras had been laying down suppressive fire as we took off and one of those cobras came up alongside of us and said, “Guys we need to set down somewhere, there‟s pieces flying everywhere”, so they went ahead and found a spot that we could actually set down in, even though we knew it still could—we weren‟t that far away, maybe three or four clicks away and the Vietcong were so heavily into that last LZ that it would take them no time to reach us. But, we sat down, set up a perimeter and we shut the aircraft down and realized we were missing three feet of both blades. 42:04 The mortar had landed just about four or five feet in front of us, with the blades turning, and the impact took rocks and shrapnel right up and just took off three feet of both blades. We were flying—I mean we needed all the blade to fly with that many troops and missing three feet, it was hard to imagine we were still flying, but we knew we had to get out of there, so I got up there with a pair of pliers and—rotor blades are, basically, a honeycomb interior with aluminum and magnesium skin on the outside, and it was all jagged, so I got up there with pliers and cut away and straightened as much as I could. One blade had more missing than the other, so it was completely out of balance, so I took ”thousand miles an hour” tape which was basically, 21 �duct tape, but with a little bit better adhesive power, and I wrapped that around the blades, trying to visibly watch it until I got it close enough to level with the winds of tape on that blade to get it so it was somewhat balanced. 43:10 Then we took off again and tried to get back to basecamp, which we succeeded in doing, but we could still only do about sixty or sixty-five knots with the gunships flying around us, giving us cover and protection until we got back to basecamp. Interviewer: Was that sort of your scariest event, or most dangerous, in your flying? No, I was really not that scared. I guess with the immaturity and the back woods life style, I really wasn‟t scared, a lot of adrenalin, actually more excitement, you know, we‟d had a lot of close encounters, had a lot of fire, but to have that come that close, it actually, I wanted more, to be honest with you, I was ready to go back out. 44:00 When we landed at base camp I asked if there was any aircraft available so I could continue to fly while mine was being repaired. Interviewer: Over the course of that year, while you were out there, did you get any R&R time, or time away from the front line? There was time available, but I didn‟t take any. Basically again, being very young, I had a family, a new daughter and money was what we needed more than anything, so we pretty much—to go on R&R would mean you were going to have to spend money to do that, so I stayed there almost the entire year without any time off other than local time. They actually required me to take four or five days off and I stay right there in base camp and listen to music, I‟d listen to music and go to the NCO club. 45:00 22 �Interviewer: One of the sort of standard critiques, largely cliché, about the soldiers in Vietnam, and so forth, is they were drinking, doing drugs and doing all sorts of things especially if they were off duty, or not actually in anything combat. On the other hand, a lot of people said that did not happen a lot when you’re up on the front lines, or anywhere near them. What would go on in basecamp during quiet times, what would people actually do? Most of the time it was drinking that was your release you know. Of course the military made it very inexpensive for you to buy alcohol. A case of beer, I think, was three dollars and twenty-five cents for a case of beer, cigarettes were free, alcohol was three or four dollars for a quart of alcohol, so they made that, unfortunately, readily available, and fairly inexpensive. 46:02 Being so young I did not drink, I did pick up smoking only because everybody else seemed to do that, and I thought, “Well, it must be the in thing”, and cigarettes were free, and that was something I didn‟t have to pay for, so I did take up smoking. But, the guys I hung around with, again everybody found their little cliques, there were groups that tended to smoke a lot of hashish and marijuana, other groups tended to drink a lot when they were free. I had three or four guys I hung around with and we‟d just sit around and listen to music and talk about things back home and we‟d go out and work on aircraft, that was out off time. People couldn‟t believe that I‟d actually go out there and wash and wax my helicopter during my down days. I took pride in it, it was my pride and joy, and I wanted that thing to be the best of all the aircraft, so I spent, even my free time during the day, out in the airfield. 47:08 I went through that aircraft, every safe wire, every nut and bolt to make sure that nothing was going to come off and nothing was going to go wrong. 23 �Interviewer: Do you think, for you that was a good way to keep your head on straight or stay focused? Yeah, it gave me purpose. Again, I‟ve always had this thing about doing the best no matter what it is, being the top of whatever I can do, making sure that what I‟m responsible for no one‟s going to come back and say, “Well, that didn‟t work, that wasn‟t any good”, so I‟d very seldom would—I‟d be out there all day long, I‟d sit with my crew chief buddies and we‟d go out there and just hang out in the aircraft, going through our log books, reading manuals, and we‟d actually quiz each other on test questions out of manuals just to keep ourselves sharp. 48:04 Sometimes we would take apart components that weren‟t necessarily needing to be cleaned or repaired or replaced, but just to make sure that there was nothing wrong with them and we would do that in pairs or two or three of together would go over to one of the other guys' aircraft and just scour it and work it over. Interviewer: Did you also have a sense that a lot of other people depended you and what you did affected a lot of people beyond just yourselves? I think that was one of the things that caused us to, aside from wanting to be the best, it was knowing that my aircraft, if it failed with ten to thirteen troops beside the pilot, copilot and gunner, could perish or what if it broke down at basecamp and we couldn‟t pick these guys up when they‟re calling us in, so I felt that my aircraft was instrumental, it needed to be tops and I needed to be with it where it went. 49:08 My aircraft never flew without me. It‟s very unusual for helicopters, sometimes when guys would go on leave or R&R, somebody else would crew their aircraft or they‟d bring in—you‟d have a second crew chief in some cases, so you‟d crew it on odd days and they‟d crew it on even 24 �days, but my aircraft never flew without me, I always flew on it every day, or almost every day. There would be three or four days where we would be in for depot maintenance, repairing sheet metal, or twice we actually had a tailbone replaced because we landed in a fresh new LZ where they used a daisy picker to cut an area, which would knock down trees and leave them about three to five feet high, which were actually stumps, and we had a band new pilot come in, fresh in Vietnam and he was flying with us and I told him to flare, flare, and I told him to pick up and he misunderstood my communication and we landed right on a stump. 50:13 Right on the tailbone, and I told him to lift up and he pulled forward and ripped the whole bottom of the tailbone off. Luckily no control damage, but twice the same pilot, we had to have tailbones replaced because of him, so then it would be down for four or five days, but again, I would never leave the aircraft, even when it was doing depot maintenance, I was actually in there wrenching with the civilian contractors who were doing transmission overhauls and replacing tailbones, I wanted to see everything they did to make sure it was done the right way. Interviewer: How much contact did you have with home during that year you were over there? Other than letters, none Interviewer: So, you didn’t get a chance to make a phone call or anything else like that? No 51:00 It was one of those things where we were gone so much and when you did come back to base camp they did have a radio set up and you could do radio phone calls, but you had to put your name on the list and wait for that and sometimes it could be three, 25 �four or five days before your name would come up and I‟d already be gone on another mission. Interviewer: How regular were the letters? It would vary and you‟d get stacks of them at a time because they‟d get held up and all of a sudden you‟d get three or four letters in a batch and then you wouldn‟t have anything for a week to ten days. A lot of times, because we were in other base camps, we‟d have to wait another week to ten days before they‟d fly in our mail and our sundry packets with our candy and cigarettes and stuff in them. We wouldn‟t get those everyday like a lot of the other units. Interviewer: Now, did you have much of a sense, during that year when you were there, how the larger war was actually going, or whether or not what you were doing was accomplishing much? 52:05 I thought we were doing everything we could do, overall, not just our unit, but the military, until we were sitting waiting to extract our unit, our infantry, and occasionally we would go and sit around an aircraft and turn the radios on and listen to the chatter that was going on around us. We‟d hear some radio communications from base camps to headquarters, actually back to the units that were actually—usually the infantry themselves, and some of the things that would transpire over the radio I started to get disheartened with the way things, in some cases, were being handled where units were being overrun and calling for extraction or assistance, and headquarters saying, “Just nam it up, man it up, fight it out, can‟t help you”. 53:03 Here we‟d sit, within a matter of fifteen, twenty minutes from the location where we could provide support, but we would call and let them know that we were available, and they refused to take assistance. I 26 �couldn‟t understand why some of those cases would take place, but again, not knowing the workings of some of those commanders and how they would do things and what those units were supposed to do, but I just felt like, in many cases, some of these units would phone in wolves and when they needed assistance it wouldn‟t arrive. Interviewer: Was that more likely to happen at the latter part of your tour, or early, or just periodically? About midway through we seemed to hear more of that, about early 1969. Interviewer: So, now you’re after Tet and all of that? Yes Interviewer: But, the fighting was still very intense and there was a lot of fighting still going on in that phase of the war. Yes 54:00 Interviewer: What sort of a toll did your year out there in the field have on you? Did you wear down at all physically or mentally, or do you think, as far as you could tell, you were in as good a condition to operate effectively eleven month in? I think missing home, the stress of not having decent meals, eating C rations, and it seemed to me we were eating more C rations than we should have had to at times, and sometimes not getting proper hygiene. I‟m, I think to this day, I have to have a shower every day and I think it‟s because of Vietnam. Having to wear wet clothes—clean— when we were back at basecamp we did have maid service. 55:04 They would have hooch maids come in while you were gone. You would set your clothes in a corner and they would go out and wash your clothes and fold them for you, and when you came back shine your boots. We always had two pair of boots and they would be setting there and 27 �when we came back they would be shined, back in basecamp, but most of the time your clothes were always wet, so you were always putting on wet clothes. I just wanted dry clothes so bad. I wanted to take a shower, and we did have hot showers at base camp, but again, you stood in line for those and they weren‟t always hot and you just never felt clean, even after a shower. So, when I came back from Vietnam I got to have clean clothes every day and I got to shower every day. I got to feel like I‟m clean all the time. Interviewer: Now, as your year in Vietnam sort of got towards the end, did they change your assignment, did you do anything differently than a month or so earlier? 56:06 Yeah, the last couple of months seemed to be like we were getting less and less heavy combat requirements and were doing a lot more BS. Again, I think it was, at the time, the infantry commander, the 4th Division commander, didn‟t really understand the role of an air cav unit and we seemed to be going back and reworking areas that we already worked, and go out and spend a week and a half, two weeks, working the grid knowing there was absolutely nothing going to be in there. People were starting to get the idea like, “They want us here wasting our time and what are we doing?” They didn‟t want to go out and fly missions and they were actually calling in sick and saying, “I got a sick stomach, I can‟t fly today”, and for a while there, there would be times when we need two scouts with two in reserve, two guns with two in reserve, a command control helicopter and then all the lift perks, and we were going out with fifty percent of our capability because people were finding excuses not to go out. 57:15 Interviewer: So, at some point there is a certain morale cost or something that hit the unit. 28 �I think a lot of that, and I believe this because of later on having been a detachment commander and being in charge of units, it all goes back to that commander, you know, how he treats his troops and the kind of information they get. When we would get information about a particular mission and they would detail what the suspected enemy was and what we needed to do, about what we had in reserve, what units were going to be follow up and back up to us, you felt the purpose and you could go out there and do your job, but when you just—they come out and say, “Ok, were going today”, “Where we going?” “Don‟t know, they‟ll brief us in air”, “What are we going to do?” “Don‟t know, when we get there they‟ll tell us”. There‟s no purpose in it, you needed to have that reason for going to begin with. 58:12 Then having pieces of information along the way just wasn‟t adequate. Interviewer: Are there other particular incidents that happened to you during that year in Vietnam that kind of stand out in your memory that you haven’t brought up here yet? There was one time I was flying—I did a lot of command and control--I would volunteer my aircraft for command and control and I had a—about three months in they changed engines and I got one of the brand new H model engines that had more power, so my aircraft had more power than most. Everyone wanted to fly it, but the air mission commander—platoon leaders particularly--wanted my aircraft, so the air mission commander would usually fly command and control, and that would be the aircraft that basically fly a little above everybody else, control the other aircraft they needed to go work this grid, keep an eye on the other aircraft and call in the gunships when you saw fire. 59:11 We had two scout birds working an area, we didn‟t have a lot of information 29 �about it other than there were some known Vietcong in the area. We took some small arms fire, but it was very sporadic, nothing intense, we didn‟t think it was any large units in there and my job at that time was to keep track of the aircraft. The air mission commander would be flying around and they‟re busy looking at maps and doing everything, and my job was to keep an eye on the two scout birds, and they would fly, basically, over the top of the trees. I lost track of one and I told the air mission commander, “I‟ve lost one of the birds and we need to circle back to the left”, and we circled back to the left and kept circling and finally we saw a wisp of smoke coming up through the trees and this was a very, very dense jungle. 00:07 You couldn‟t see the ground at all no matter where you hovered to. We flew right over the smoke and occasionally we‟d get some small arms fire going on and some tracers coming at us, but we could not see where the smoke was coming from, but there was definitely one scout bird missing. Our infantry were still, probably thirty minutes away, so the air mission commander asked me if I would volunteer to repel down into the jungle and go in and see what had happened. Again, being young and immature I thought, „Repel that, yeah, I‟ll do that”. The problem was, we needed to find a place, that wasn‟t as dense, that I could get through the jungle, through the trees. So, I repelled down with a M-16 and two bandoliers of ammunition and got into the top of the trees and lowered myself down through the trees. 1:11 You have no radio contact, so I repelled down and I got within about five feet of the ground, which I was at the end of the rope and again, the pilots above cannot see through the trees, they have no idea and I can‟t tell them. I have no radio contact and can‟t tell them to lower me a little further, so I just went off the end of the rope and landed on my rear end on the ground and once they realized the rope was 30 �free they rolled it back up and continued to circle around the area. 2:05 Unfortunately the only area they could find less dense for me to repel into was about a mile and a half, maybe, from the smoke, so I had to hump it through the dense jungle on foot, on ground, M-16 in hand knowing that the enemy was there, but I needed to get over to find that scout bird to see if there was any survivors. I was not a ground pounder, so I was— during my entire tour that was the one time that made my heart jump the most. I was the most scared and the unsure of what to do. Again, because it was so dense I couldn‟t really—I couldn‟t see the smoke, so I just had to take my bearings from when I repelled about where I needed to go, 3:02 So, I worked my way toward the downed aircraft and when I got there I realized there was no survivors. The aircraft actually impacted a tree and it was a very huge tree, it was about twenty feet in diameter and the aircraft had impacted it. I don‟t know if it was shot down, had an engine fire or what happened. Scout birds carry a lot of ammunition with them, a lot of Willie Pete grenades and phosphorus grenades, hand grenades, and the aircraft was on fire and all this ammunition was going off around me, but I had to get up close enough to make sure that there were no survivors, so I worked my way up there with rounds whizzing by me from this aircraft fire that sparked off the ammunition. I got up to the scout on the right side and he had impacted the tree so hard that his helmet had split in half and half his helmet was stuck in the tree. 4:06 I pulled him out of the aircraft, laid him down and went around to the other side and the cyclic stick of the aircraft had impacted into the pilots chest, so it took me some while to get him off of that and I pulled him out and I covered him with their ponchos and went back to the aircraft and popped a smoke so they could—at that time they had gone back and got a rope ladder and had another control and command bird 31 �come in and take their place. They got a rope ladder and lowered the rope ladder and I climbed back up and let them know that I secured the two bodies and they did not survive and the aircraft was totaled. 5:00 So, they asked me to go back down , get the dog tags, to secure any weapons, make sure, if they were still functionable, to destroy those. So, I did that, got the dog tags, came back and went up the rope ladder again. Then we located an LZ big enough that an aircraft could actually land in. It was an LZ about five or six clicks away and we brought in the infantry so they could go in and retrieve the bodies. Surprisingly, the air mission commander now decides that we‟re going to go back to Pleiku, not to the basecamp that we were working out of, right to Pleiku. Instead of landing in---they always had areas where aircraft would park and there were sandbags and fifty-five gallon drums and you would land between those, and this time instead of landing in the place for my aircraft, we landed up by the headquarters building. 6:06 I‟m assuming for the air mission commander to get out and report what happened. When we landed we shut the aircraft down and the air mission commander looked back at me and said, “Joe, you need to get out and go see that guy standing out there”, so I decided, “I‟m probably going to give an air mission report”, and I get over there and realize—and I was so taken back I don‟t remember the General's name. At the time it was the Fourth Infantry Division General that was standing there, a two star General. He called me up and called me to attention and read off an award and gave me a Bronze Star with a V and pinned it on my chest at that time. That was the first time I‟d gotten an award and I had no idea what that meant and I guess to get an impact award in Vietnam is pretty unique and to get it from a two star General is even more unique. 7:03 To this day, I don‟t 32 �think I did anything out of the ordinary. I did what was asked of me and I probably would have felt better if I could have pulled them out alive. Interviewer: Still that was a pretty challenging mission assignment that you had there. You weren’t trained to drop through the jungle or anything else like that, but you managed to keep your bearings, physically get there, and do that particular job and that’s pretty far beyond the conventional call of duty. Of course, another thing about that duration a lot of people didn’t think that you probably could deal with it, but you did and that was just in placed where the right people were not watching and here, at least, the officers could see, and experienced officers knew how to report stuff, “Okay, you really did step up and do something exceptional”, and I think anybody listening to that story can tell, “I wonder if I would have done that well?” That certainly seems to be a case where you did the right thing. 8:03 Finally, you get to the end of your year in Vietnam. Did you get sent directly back to the states, or what happened when that year tour was over? Yeah, I rotated out, on my normal deros, left the unit and was reassigned as a crew chief on a helicopter at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Interviewer: Did they let you go home? Yeah, yeah, they did, we actually got thirty days‟ vacation, so the great thing about the military was you got thirty days a year and I always took advantage of those, and that was the first thirty days I ever actually had entirely and we took all thirty days in a row. Interviewer: Did things seem different than they were when you left? Yeah, coming back was—I thought we were doing the right thing over there and I thought, for the most part—they shielded us in Vietnam and you don‟t know exactly 33 �what‟s going on. 9:06 New troops would come over and tell you it was a nightmare back in the United States, you‟re not going to like it, things are—it‟s not a happy environment, you know, but you shoved it under the rug as being unimportant or not really true, or just somebody making a story up and I guess I got the rude awakening when I came back. They flew me into Oakland and they huddled us into a little room and said, “You need to get out of your military clothes”. “Why?” “Just trust me, you don‟t— dress in your civilian clothes, you don‟t want to be in your military clothes, and we‟re going to rush you out of this building and you‟re going to sit here and wait until your aircraft is ready to take off, and you‟re going to run out to your aircraft”. I thought, “That‟s really weird, I wonder what‟s going on?” 10:00 Then we could hear all the demonstrators out in the hallway yelling. Some troops were going to go get taxis to go home and stuff, and some were still in their uniforms. I walked out the door and stood in the hallway and watched the demonstrators calling soldiers that I‟d come back with “baby killers‟ and all kids of names, throwing blood, if it was fake or not I don‟t know, but it was red in color and they were throwing it on them and hitting them with signs. It was very disheartening, so I actually rushed back in the building and shut the door because I didn‟t want to be any part of that and I didn‟t know what was going on and to me it didn‟t make any sense what was happening, so I wasn‟t sure, I didn‟t know what to think of it. When it came time for my plane to leave they opened the side door under the tarmac and they said, „That‟s your aircraft”, and it was a civilian aircraft, “Run out there”, and they actually had a staircase you walked up to get in the plane, it wasn‟t a skywalk or anything. 11:10 I brought back a souvenir from Vietnam. There was a time where we actually went in and we caught a lot of Vietcong, actually they were NVA 34 �regulars, brand new troops in the open, and our gunships had caught them in the open and we killed them all. There were roughly about two platoons, roughly twenty individuals there. We killed them all in the open, so we landed our infantry down in there to make sure they were all dead. I got out, I was with the air mission commander, flying with the air mission commander so I got to walk around and the bird stayed there on the LZ. We went around inspecting the bodies and I was collecting stuff from them that I thought was unique, so I picked up a weapon, SKS, brand new with a pack and some other stuff. 12:08 so, I was bringing that stuff back with me and low and behold they, of all things, when you think about it now, to bring back a weapon from Vietnam all you need to do is get an import, export license and it costs you seven dollars and you can actually carry it with you on the plane. So, I‟ve got an SKS on my shoulder and my duffle bag and people aren‟t supposed to know I‟m in the military and I‟m rushing to an aircraft to get on board. Actually, I climbed up the ladder and got inside the aircraft and they said, “You can‟t take that back to your seat, give me your weapon”, and they put it in the stewardesses clothes closet right up in front, so there‟s my—a rifle loaded right in the aircraft and to think that you could do that then compared to now days. There was one seat on the airplane empty and I sat down in that seat. The guy next to me, I could tell, was military, just from his look, he‟s in civilian clothes, but we never looked at each other. 13:00 We sat there and taxied off and finally he looked my way and I looked his. I didn‟t tell this story earlier, but I actually went in the service under the buddy plan. One of my buddies from my home town and I, at that time, both decided to go in the service together and we were promised we‟d be in a buddy plan, and we went to basic training together. But, they don‟t tell you that buddy plan means that‟s as far as you go. We went 35 �off different paths after that and I never spoke to him and we never had any letters going back and forth and I don‟t know what happened to him, but here he was sitting in the seat next to me. Of all things, he was coming back from Korea and I was coming back from Vietnam. Of all things, to sit down next to him and both of us ending our tours of duty, his in Korea and mine in Vietnam and being on the same plane going home, it was something. Interviewer: How much time did you have left in your enlistment when you got back? I had a year. 14:02 I enlisted for three years, I‟d spent a year in it and going through basic training and almost a year prior to going to Vietnam, and then a year in Vietnam, so I still had a year left. When I came back, again money was tight, we had a child and at the time they were offering a bonus if you reenlisted, but you had to have so much—you couldn‟t just reenlist, you had to wait so long, so I had to wait about five or six months and then I reenlisted for the maximum at that time, which was six years. They gave me ten thousand dollars cash, which after taxes and everything ended up to be about eighty five hundred dollars. To me that was a ton of money back then, so I did it just for that money. 15:00 I didn‟t have any idea whether or not I wanted to stay in the military. I kind of figured I did, I kind of liked what I was doing being a crew chief and I liked being associated with the military even though Vietnam was still negative and there was still a lot going on about Vietnam, I still thought the military had done well by me and I owed them something, especially since they were going to pay me to stay in. Interviewer: Now, you said you went to Fort Bragg. Was that the only place you were stationed or did they move you around? 36 �No, after Fort Bragg, I spent three years at Fort Bragg, and a common thing after twenty years in the military, we pretty much moved every three years, we could bank on that. In the army you could assume that three years was the maximum of anyplace you were ever going to be, so we never unpacked everything fully. You go somewhere and you‟d stay there two or two and a half years, and you‟d get orders. After Fort Bragg I went to Germany and spent three years in Germany. 16:02 Interviewer: Which three years were those? It was 1972-1975 Interviewer: In that period of time, what was the atmosphere like over there as far as how the Germans and Europeans viewed the American servicemen, and what life was like in the military there? Overall we enjoyed the tour in Germany. I now had a son besides a daughter, so I had two children and we looked at it as a learning experience in Germany. We toured, and took our kids everywhere we went, loved Germany and for the most part, loved the people in Germany. Unfortunately we were in—I was assigned to another Cav unit and the Cav unit's role, this Cav unit's role, and at the time the cold war is still going on and we‟re still, basically, enemies with Russia and East Germany, and we were responsible for what was known as Fulda Gap. 17:03 It was an area where, if there was going to be a war, the Russians and the East Germans were going to come through what was known as Fulda Gap. Our role in life was to delay them coming through the Fulda Gap. We actually had tank killers, an air Cav unit assigned to an armor unit, an armored squadron that was an air Cav troop. We were the only aviation unit so our M-60 tanks and our tank killers would—and we trained for this, we‟d go up there and spend thirty to forty-five 37 �days training every three months on how to stop the enemy from coming through there. The tank killers would—there goal was to blow up the tanks in the front of the formation, just assume how they would be coming across with their heavy tanks and artillery, and knock those out to stop or slow down the traffic coming through and then our aircraft would go in and do strafing runs on the enemy, 18:05 smaller vehicles and the infantry, you know, and they told us when we first got there, if something was to happen, we had a life expectancy of three minutes, so it‟s something you just live with, and again, I never thought that ever was going to happen. I could not see a war with Russia, but we still trained for it every day. Interviewer: Now, while you’re stationed over there, in the Middle East war with Israel was going on, and did that affect you in terms of works or anything like that? Not for us because our primary mission was the Fulda Gap. We were constantly going to Graff or Hohenfels to do armor training and it seemed to me I spent more time in the field training for war than I ever spent back in base camp. A little different, they would actually go in and set up tents and they had a mess hall, so it was a little bit different environment than what you had it Vietnam, but it was a lot of time training. 19:10 That was actually a good thing because you didn‟t have idle time and we were a well-honed fighting machine. Our troop was, and I was proud of everybody there and everybody respected that. They all—we‟d have parties when we came back and we partied together and I got a lot of unique experience out of that. I actually went back to school, first I got my GED and then went back after I got my GED and said, “that‟s just a piece of paper, I need to actually get my education”, so I went back and finished my high school and go my diploma and then we actually had we actually had Embry Riddle Aeronautical 38 �University and they would have professors attached to us. We‟d go out for training and they would set up a tent and we‟d go in to college classes at night or early morning. 20:07 They would have these set up in between training missions, so I got a two year degree going to night school. I look at it as they afforded me that—the capability of doing that, so I was going to take full opportunity of that and get my degree. Interviewer: After Germany where did you go? Back stateside, back to Fort Rucker, because I had so much experience as a crew chief and maintenance background. They actually assigned me as an instructor for aircraft maintenance training; it was actually AIT training for OH-58s at the time. They got rid of the OH-6‟s. They have since been replaced with scout birds with OH-58s and I had been crewing both of those, UH-1s and OH-58s, so they assigned me as an instructor. Interviewer: At a certain point you kind of change your specialization don’t you? You get new training? 21:06 Well, I went to a lot of different training of a lot of things. I was always wanting to take that next level. I volunteered; I took instructor training courses, higher maintenance courses, I was also, like I said, working at night getting my college degree. I was always looking for that little extra edge, you know, to get that next rank because rank was really required education training. “What did you do over and above the next guy to be promoted over him?” Both of you, just because you had five years in the service, you had to have points, and points came from extra training. So, I volunteered for a lot of extra training and extra-curricular activities to get that extra edge. 22:03 I was actually m85 and m86 ahead of my peers. Interviewer: At some point you also trained to be a pilot. 39 �While I was at Fort Rucker training, enlisted to be helicopter mechanics, I realized that the only thing for me, and the rest of my career, was going to be an enlisted person and that was very limiting. Once you become a first sergeant, E7s, there wasn‟t much to that and I wanted to fly. I‟d been in the back being a crew chief and there had been a number of occasions where they actually let me fly the aircraft, and I felt pretty confident, and maybe cocky, that I could actually fly this thing. So, while I was at Fort Rucker, the warrant officer training was at Fort Rucker, so I approached them about going to flight school. Well, they had a rule at that time, they didn‟t want prior enlisted. Vietnam had wound down; they had an overabundance of warrant officers that they were actually getting rid of. 23:04 So to go to flight school at that time as a prior enlisted, they‟d rather have fresh people coming out of college that didn‟t have any bad habits as enlisted members. After about three months I was actually approached. They were putting together a pilot program, something the military decided to do, and they actually put together an entire class of all prior enlisted, so they asked me to join this group if I wanted to go through this test pilot and if we succeeded we‟d become pilots and we‟d be W-1s at the end of that. It was pretty unique, I went to—we had thirty four students all going to flight school together. All of us were E5s or E6‟s with anywhere from seven to ten years of prior enlisted experience. The test, actually, went rather well, mostly because of our military background and knew the training that was involved. 24:08 We weren‟t bothered by people telling us that our boots weren‟t shined enough or that we had to roll our socks tighter, or our underwear weren‟t in line, or our name tags weren‟t straight, so we, actually, fared rather well in the training to be an officer, and in the flight training we were even better because most of us, again, had been prior enlisted and had 40 �been around helicopters. We started off with thirty four and we graduated thirty two. Typical warrant officer classes, when they‟d have all new students fresh out of college, or maybe they were ROTC graduates [during Vietnam, warrant officers who flew helicopters were often even younger and had little or no college experience], they would start with a class of thirty three to thirty five and by the time they would graduate they would have twelve to fifteen, because of the dropout rate. 25:02 Interviewer: You guys knew a whole lot about what it was like to actually be in a helicopter and what it felt like and an awful lot about what’s happening and being that close to the pilots you’re going to know a fair amount anyway. It wasn‟t so much about the aircraft; it was knowing that—because unlike officers that went to flight school, they‟d already gone to officer training. Officer training was only three months, flight training was nine months, so the first six months of your nine month period, was actually intense officer training. Attention to detail, formation at five thirty in the morning and go run for five miles, everything that had to do with learning to be an officer. In my eyes it was not learning to be an officer, it was learning a regiment, learning the details, knowing what to expect and how to handle people. 26:03 So we would have to do that and when as soon as that was done, go in and shower and rush to classes and do our aviation training that officers were doing. They were home with their wives, get up in the morning, shower, and go have a nice meal, and then go to flight school classes and sit in a classroom. We were competing with them, basically, as warrant officer candidates after being up for four or five hours in a strict physical and mental regiment. We‟d actually—they‟d get us out in the morning in formation and say, “You got five minutes to empty your locker out”, and we‟d have to rush up there and 41 �throw everything out of our locker onto the floor and come back out in formation. They‟d say, “You go three minutes to put it back in place”, so we‟d have to rush back up there and put everything back in place and then they‟d come through and do an inspection. It was just mind games, you know, but it was all something to influence your training. 27:00 but, we had to now contend with all the school work and learning. Learning how to fly an aircraft, learning meteorology, learning instrument flying, all the things that a pilot needed to know, while officers that were taking the flight school portion of it would do the training, go home at night to their wives and a nice home cooked meal. My wife was living on base and I didn‟t see her for almost the first six months. Occasionally she would come out to where we were in formation and wave and the kids would come out and say, “Hi”, but we pretty much didn‟t see them, we lived in a barracks, like basic training, only worse. Interviewer: Once you got through that, what kind of an assignment did you get? Rather unique and I guess based on my background and my experience level, I graduated as a W1, which was where you start out at, and they immediately assigned me to Hunter Army Airfield, which is in Savannah, Georgia. 28:09 It was a new aviation unit. The air force had just moved out of Hunter Airfield and turned it over to the army, so a new unit was assigned there, and they gave me an assignment to go into Hunter Army Airfield. I had never been there and I had no idea, except I heard good things about that assignment was going to be really, really nice and you‟re imagine—I‟ve never seen an army base before, actually, in town. This was neat and right in the town of Savannah, on the outskirts of Savannah. When I got there as a W1—typically you report to CW3s and CW4s or you report to Lieutenants or Captains, and you‟re just going to be a pilot and , 42 �basically, that‟s all you‟re going to do. They looked at my ten years of aviation maintenance background and as a W1 I was thrust into a command position as a platoon leader in charge of aircraft maintenance and about thirty six crew chiefs as a W1. 29:06 Of course, it didn‟t really bother me, I‟d been a staff sergeant, I handled it the same as I did the staff sergeant, so I ran the maintenance platoon for about a year and a half as a W1 and then as a W2, which is very unusual to have a W1, or even a W2 hold a command position. Interviewer: I’m watching a little bit our time here and so forth, but basically you stay in and you become a pilot. How long did you stay in? I retired after twenty years. I had another tour in Germany, a couple stateside assignments, had envisioned myself as getting a fixed wing transition, I‟d always been rotary wing and I wanted to go to fly regular aircraft. While I was in Germany, my career manager, back in the Pentagon, I knew rather well, was going to assign me to Hawaii with a fixed wing transition in route and as we got ready to leave Germany he ended up being reassigned and I got a career manager who said, “No, no, you‟re background‟, and I later on became a safety officer too. 30:13 I did safety and accident investigation, actually, aircraft crash investigation and because of my background I was required to be at Fort Knox, Kentucky and Hawaii was out. I get to Fort Knox and I said, “My twenty years are in, I‟m putting in my retirement papers”. Interviewer: Now we’re doing this interview in conjunction with the LZ Michigan here in West Michigan, and part of that purpose there is to kind of give a belated welcome back to Vietnam veterans and the like, and one of the things we’re interested in was the reception you got when you came back and you talked about 43 �that and the protesters and activist and that sort of thing. The other side of it, after you came back did you talk to anybody about what you experienced? 31:05 Are there military people or family or anything like that? Not really, no, not until my reunion two years ago. I spoke very little about Vietnam, what had happened and what had transpired over there. It was—I felt it was something in me that no one else needed to do. For the most part there was still a lot of negativity about Vietnam, even years later. It was as though you don‟t really want to let people know you‟re a veteran from Vietnam, you know, just keep it quiet. It wasn‟t until my reunion a couple of years ago, I was invited to that, I went down there and everybody there, we all had a common cause, a common goal and a common thread and we spoke openly about our tour. Interviewer: We were talking about your experience of actually starting to talk a little bit about the experiences, and so forth. 32:01 How did you wind up meeting up with the other veterans of the unit? I guess they had done a web search and found my name, my name popped up and they called me and asked me if I‟d be interested in coming to the reunion. They, actually, had six or seven of them and were still locating people, so I decided to go there have a reunion. It was, actually, held at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, which is the—our unit was deactivated after Vietnam and they reactivated the unit for Iraq and Afghanistan, so they‟re located out of Fort Campbell, so not only was it our old troops, but we got to mix and talk to all the new troops of our unit, so that was a unique experience. Interviewer: What sort of response did the present day soldiers have to you guys? 44 �Actually, like—I thought they would be kind of like, “Oh yeah, these old guys, what do they know?” No, they actually respected us. 33:03 They—it‟s pretty amazing, they would ask us questions about what happened, how things went over there, how things are different now, they treated us with a lot of respect. I was really impressed and they still do, from the unit commanders on down to the soldiers, they, actually, wear old Vietnam fatigues and at the reunions for us, and come to the dinners and celebrations. It‟s very heartwarming to know that there are young guys out there that still respect the old guys for what they did. Interviewer: What do you think, now, of the way in which our culture and society today kind of treats the men and women that were serving in Iraq and Afghanistan? I think it‟s great, I really do, and I utilize my ability as an owner of a magazine and also, as a motor cycle rider, to go to a lot of events, primarily military or veteran oriented. 34:07 The outpouring of support and love by the American people is—It‟s something I wish we‟d of had when we came back for Vietnam, but you can‟t go back and do that, but what they‟re doing now is unprecedented. I guess the overflow from that is, because of the support that they are giving to the Iraq and Afghanistan troops that are returning, there‟s a lot more presents, there‟s a lot more thought going into the fact that Vietnam troo9ps didn‟t get that, so we have a lot of people come up to us, come up to me, and I wear a symbol that I was a veteran and that I was in Vietnam because I‟m proud of that fact now, and people come up and shake my hand and thank me for my service. Apologizing for how things were handled back then even though many of them were not even born, so that‟s very heartwarming. To have people come up and thank you for what we did in Vietnam over forty years ago. 35:03 45 �Interviewer: Finally recognizing at some level to detach the war, which is largely a political thing, from the people that have to go and fight it. Yeah, that‟s what I explain. I do some radio segments and I write a veterans corner in my magazine, explaining veterans‟ benefits, where to go to get things. There are a ton of homeless veterans out there, a lot of them from Vietnam, that there‟s services, places for them to go, so I use that veterans corner to—as a release for me, and to help my fellow soldiers. To let them know that there are things out there, and there are people out there that do care and understand what they went through, also what I went through, but again, I don‟t feel that it was as negative for me as-- when I listen to some other soldiers stories and I feel that they might have had a worse time and a harder time than I did. Interviewer: That makes for a very good story and I would just like to close by thanking you for coming in and telling it today. Thank you for having me, I appreciate it. 36:05 46 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brinn, Joseph (Interview transcript and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brinn, Joseph Description An account of the resource Joe Brinn was born in 1950 in Virginia and eventually moved with his family to Michigan, where he grew up. He got married at age 16 and dropped out of high school, and a year later decided to join the military. He received basic training at Ft. Knox, and then Ft. Rucker to train as a Helicopter Crew Chief. He landed in Pleiku, Vietnam, in 1968 and was assigned to the 77th Air Cavalry which was attached to the 4th Infantry Division and worked as a crew chief. His unit did "hunt/kill" missions and he did maintenance on the aircraft as well. During his time in Vietnam, he flew many combat missions, notably over Dak To, but he was never wounded; although there were many close calls. Mr. Brinn was awarded a Bronze Star after for repelling down from a helicopter to recover a lost aircraft, which he found out crashed; and even though there were no survivors he secured the bodies. After Vietnam, he continued his military career, eventually becoming a warrant officer and helicopter pilot, and retired after twenty years. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-06-30 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BrinnJ0032V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3f9b66295c878766a365a4464cb051b4.mp4 09830d68f8fd117e86451715014637e8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bd6132aee608b287479b698d83675ce5.pdf 8241e847b9021d044a98729cabe2bcf0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Korean War Era William Brinkman Length of Interview (00:18:40) Background Served in the U.S. Army during Korean War; highest rank: Captain Born in Los Angeles, California, November 11, 1930 Mother died when he was 5, raised by his father; has one sister Has been married for 48 years, has a large family Father served in WWI Training (00:01:15) Attended a military school, a recruitment officer spoke to his father about Officer’s Candidate School  Had graduated from the honors military academy as Battalion Commander, Lieutenant Colonel the Honor Cadet  Tested for Officer’s Candidate School, given a contract by the Government  Was commissioned as 2nd Lieutenant  Served at Fort Riley, Kansas, and Fort Benning, Georgia The Korean War started two days after he entered training in 1950 (00:02:15) Went to Fort Riley for basic training and leadership training Transferred to Fort Benning for Infantry Officer training school Didn’t have difficulty with military life, military school helped immensely  Used to discipline Was a part of the first class of officer’s training since WWII, 180-day Wonders After receiving his commission, sent to Indiantown Gap, Pennsylvania (00:03:20) Had to have a commission for six months before going into combat �Taught classes for night patrolling and patrolling Germany (00:03:50) There for three weeks, sent to Germany instead of Korea Shipped with 43rd Infantry (his division), 28th Infantry and 4th Armor Divisions to Germany Berlin Airlift situation [crisis was in 1948], had to stop the Russians from taking over Europe From Indiantown Gap to Camp Pickett, Virginia; there for seven days, paraded through Norfolk to the troop ship Ship called General M.B. Stewart, sailed for 10 days from Norfolk to Germany (00:04:50)  Landed in Bremerhaven, Germany; was a beautiful day, had a band greet them with the song “I Wonder Who She’s Kissing” From Bremerhaven to Y-69, near Heidelberg; waited for their heavy equipment to arrive (tanks, heavy artillery, etc.) Division was split up in Augsburg, put into the 102nd Infantry Regiment; other two regiments sent to other major cities nearby Major objective was to protect the cities and split up the Russians; had certain defenses (00:06:00)  Had to continue doing this until the Russians reached the Rhine River where NATO troops would come in  Final line of defense at the Rhine, were prepared  Didn’t have to go to war 102nd Infantry Regiment is the oldest in the Army; first commanded in Quebec against the French during the French and Indian War Primarily stayed in Augsburg with the 102nd Never had any major incidents, no one killed Some of the training they went through was dangerous; Infiltration Course: crawl under machine gun fire that was shooting 18 inches above the ground, had to crawl (00:08:00)  Would climb through barbwire, sometimes shells would go off � One kid was killed when he jumped up after seeing a rattlesnake Mostly did patrolling in Germany, very sporadic hours  When a alert happened would have to move to the assembly area Doc O’Donnell (00:09:40) Had a friend in Officer’s Training name Doc O’Donnell who had difficulty with the physical training  40% of the men washed out during OSC  Doc went to the West Coast, then was sent to Korea  Had a platoon of infantry, had 40 men under him  Were patrolling when hit by a Chinese company; 4:1 against  Doc took machine gun fire against both his legs, one of the men were killed; pinned down by enemy fire  Called the Platoon Sergeant for Browning Automatic Rifles and hand grenades to disperse the enemy and cover the men  Covered their retreat, never heard from him again; saved 38 men’s lives  Awarded the Distinguished Service Cross posthumously After Service (00:12:45) Stayed in touch with his family by letter mostly, sometimes phone (expensive); had no problems receiving mail For recreation: German bars, opera, visited places Would attend clubs: Officer’s Club, NCO Clubs, Servicemen’s Clubs Returned home in 1954, talked into attending school for a degree Was able to readjust to civilian life easily; studied a lot, received 2 degrees in 4 years (lots of study and no social life) A part of the American Legion (25 years); Finance Officer of his post; keeps in touch with a lot of veterans, but none that he served with His service gave him a higher sense of patriotism, provided him with an education �Graduated from the University of Arizona in Tucson, got a job with Martin Marietta in the Aerospace Division, assigned to the Gemini Launch Vehicle Team (00:15:20)  Got to go to Cape Canaveral, met all of the astronauts there  Great friend with Gus Grissom; met Chaffee, Gordon Cooper, Ed White While in Germany, the Regimental Commander signed him up for taking the Honor Guard down for the retirement parade for the general of NATO (00:16:15)  Had 150 men, job was to train them and get them ready  Required a height of 6ft, had new uniforms  Retirement parade for General Dwight D. Eisenhower in Frankfurt, Germany  Place where the 1936 Olympics were held  Had all of the Allies there, given a 21-gun salute  Marched in groups of 5,000 men each Had a good experience with the military; if you do your job and have discipline, you can do well in military and life � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brinkman, William (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brinkman, William Description An account of the resource After graduating from a military academy, William Brinkman attended Officer's Candidate School where he was given a commission as 2nd Lieutenant. He served during the Korean War, but his division, and a couple of others, were sent to Germany, instead, to guard against the Russians. He served in the 102nd Regiment, 43rd Infantry Division. He also tells the story of his OCS classmate, Doc O'Donnell, who was killed in Korea. After the war, he worked for Martin Marietta and was involved with the space program. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jenkins, Sara (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-11-27 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BrinkmanW Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b1259e0592b340754f598d500f699348.pdf c3508c46b4cc671b453b92b8519b0d7b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Jarvis Brink Cold War Interview Length: 11 minutes 9 seconds (00:00:04) Early Life and Overview of Service -From Zeeland, Michigan -Attended Holland High School -Graduated in 1953 -Joined the Army in 1954 -Served for two years -It was a whole new experience serving in the Army -Strange experience to leave the small town environment for the first time -Feels that it is, in some ways, emotionally similar to leaving for college -Surviving basic training relied on learning how to follow orders and accept the rules -Initially difficult for him to adjust to that -Spent a few months training in Kentucky -Stationed at Fort Hood, Texas for eighteen months -Worked as a mechanic in the motor pool of one of the Armored Divisions -Service made him mature and taught him how to accept authority (00:02:07) Volunteering for the Draft -After graduating from high school he had a job -Not a very good job though -Better jobs refused to hire someone if they hadn’t completed draft service yet -He went to the local draft board and volunteered for the draft -Meant that he would be drafted sooner as opposed to later (00:03:03) Basic and Advanced Training -He was trained to be a gun mechanic after he completed basic training -Trained how to repair the .30 and .50 caliber machine guns mounted on tanks -Training for that was in Kentucky and lasted eight weeks -Difficult to adjust to military living while in basic training -Lived in cramped, older barracks at Fort Knox, Kentucky -Had to live by the Army’s schedule -No personal time during two months of basic training -Had no money during basic training -Only got paid $78 a month -Eventually was granted some weekend leave while being trained to be a gun mechanic (00:05:09) Deployments while in the Army -Took basic and advanced training at Fort Knox, Kentucky for four months -Stationed at Fort Hood, Texas for eighteen months -Returned to Fort Knox for further training on being a gun mechanic -He wanted to have an overseas deployment -Wanted to visit Germany -He would have had to reenlist to be granted that and was not interested in that �(00:05:48) Personal Relationships While in the Army -He formed temporary friendships while he was in the Army -They were not long lasting friendships and faded after he was discharged -Wrote his parents a letter once a week -Wrote letters to, and received letters from, his friends back home -Only used the telephone a handful of times during his two years of service -Used it to call his parents -Calls were expensive -Telephones were generally reserved for special occasions and emergencies (00:06:56) Peacetime and Returning Home -He wanted to do his service while there was no warfare -The Korean War had ended about six months prior to his joining the Army -Had to use trains to get across the country -Took a train from Fort Hood to Chicago -Eighteen hour trip -Had to sleep in the seat because there were no beds on the train -He was allowed to return home on leave every six months -He was treated more like an adult by his friends and family whenever he came home (00:08:22) Involvement with Other Veterans -He has made connections with other veterans -Not the people that he served with though -Feels that having a connection with other veterans has been good for reminiscing -Also good because they understand and experienced the same things he did (00:08:46) Reflections on Service -Feels that it made him a better person in terms of loyalty -Instilled in him a sense of commitment to his nation and his fellow countrymen -Taught him that there is more to life than making money -Instilled in him life values -Honesty, integrity, self-reliance, and confidence (00:09:48) Parents’ Reaction to His Service -He was the first in his family to serve in any branch of the military -His induction into the Army was difficult for his parents -He was an only child -They wanted him to wait as long as he could to get drafted (00:10:37) Final Thoughts on Veterans -Glad that we now show respect for our veterans and current members of the military -Feels that combat veterans especially deserve respect -Especially those that suffered greatly in combat Interview ends at 00:11:09 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brink, Jarvis (Interview outline), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brink, Jarvis Description An account of the resource Jarvis Brink is a Cold War veteran from Zeeland, Michigan where he attended Holland High School and graduated from there in 1953. In 1954 he joined the Army and served for two years. He received basic training at Fort Knox, Kentucky and was stationed at Fort Hood, Texas for eighteen months working as a machine gun mechanic on tanks in the motor pool for one of the armored tank divisions stationed there. During his time at Fort Hood he returned to Fort Knox and received more training on how to repair the .30 and .50 caliber mounted machine guns. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Scholl, Amanda (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-05-25 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BrinkJ1497V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/88e0ee41c6004326c21cc6de861fecb2.mp4 2ad7bed00d6efad6459c037c0abc2f54 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2c44802df60fda0bcb7d87f779c8c5fe.pdf e78f25fe8aa8fce86639c67663f94c6a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview EMT - Iraq War Dianne Brigalia Length of Interview: 19:11 Name of interviewer unknown. Using XX to signify interviewer. (00:02) XX: This is Dianne Brigalia. And you served as an EMT, right? In Iraq. And we’re interviewing at about 5:00 (p.m.) on May 29, 2009. So, why were you interested in becoming an EMT in the military? (00:17) DB: Um, I was interested mainly because I knew I wasn’t ready to go to college yet, so I chose to join the Army. I always wanted to be a doctor, so I knew I wanted to do anything in medical, so that’s why I decided to become a medic. XX: So what was your training for becoming a medic? DB: Well, first we had to do the nine weeks of basic training, just like everybody does. There’s all different MOS’s or jobs there. And then for our training we go to Fort Sam Houston, in Texas, for about three months. And there we first learned CPR, and got certified in CPR. And then after that we did our EMT certification, which was most of…most of the class was the EMT certification. And got licensed in that. It was a lot of hands on training, with CPR. And giving patients shots. Starting IVs and how to assess patients. And they mainly focused on doing these in the field, without having the conveniences that you would have in the real hospital. You would have to build your own hospital and learn how to work with nothing, basically. (01:48) DB: Mainly a lot of hands on, and problem solving and working with what you have. XX: So basically in was like a simulation for out in the field? DB: Yep. We did field training also. That was the last week of our training, was out in the field. XX: So how was your military life? How was food, sleeping arrangements? DB: The food in the field was not bad. The MREs, which is the food in the bag, basically. But a lot of the time, they bring the food to you, in the field, which is really nice, so you get real food. It’s not like eating at home, of course, but it really wasn’t that bad. But, like, when I got to Fort Riley, Kansas, we had our own food, so it was nice, cause we lived in our own house. So, a lot different than Korea and anywhere else, where you had to eat out of the dfac. But it wasn’t bad. �(03:05) XX: All right. So, where did you serve? Can you describe where you got shipped to, or… DB: My first duty station was Korea. Which was where I met my husband. I was in 2nd Engineer Battalion, which was on [unclear]. I worked mainly in the aid station on post. And we also had field problems there. And I would get sent to different units to help them with their field problems. And at Fort Riley I worked in the hospital, which was a lot different. It was a nice break. But there, I worked in the surgery center and I worked in the emergency room, for the rest of my time there. So it was a good experience. XX: So, were most of your cases like bullet wounds, mostly? (04:04) DB: We had a few. (laughs) Yeah. Mainly, we did like sick call and took care of easy stuff. But yeah, we had bullet wounds and more difficult stuff. And there’s a lot of older men in the military, too. So we had a lot of heart attacks and stuff like that. XX: Did you have any cases with diseases? Like, I don’t know if there was like malaria there… DB: Um, there’s actually a lot of STDs, that we saw. (laughs) A lot of STDs. So, I learned a lot about STDs. I never thought I would learn about those in the Army, but I did. And it was interesting. Other than that, no, there’s really was not many other disease. (05:17) XX: What about friendships? You know, would you get really close with your battalion? DB: That was…that was really hard for me. ‘Cause I get really close to people and I don’t like…it’s bad for me, saying good-bye. But. My husband, obviously I got close to him, and we got married, but yeah, I had, every place that I went, friends. And they’re always coming and going, which makes it really difficult, but… XX: So how did you stay in touch with people that you knew back home. With letters, or email… (05:56) DB: Um, there were a lot of letters. We didn’t really have computers in Korea, so it was hard to do the email thing. But a lot of letters. And we had cell phones. Once we got to Kansas, we…there was more email. But a lot of letters to begin with. And then email and phone calls. XX: What does it feel like to get a letter and say, oh my gosh, you know… DB: Well, I can relate that to basic training, because it was like gold, really. It was the best feeling to get a letter in the mail. Which seems small to some people, but it was a big deal. It made you feel really good. Especially when you can’t have contact with anybody. �(06:50) XX: Did you get, like, packages from like schools…I know in like elementary school, we did a package that we sent to a guy in the military. DB: Yeah. My mom sent…well, my mom is a bus driver, so she had a kid, and a teacher that really liked her, and my mom…she found out that she had a daughter in the military. So they one time sent me a box of all these cards from a second grade class. It was really cool. It was really cool. So I wrote them a letter back and everything. So, yeah, I got one of those. It was really cool. XX: That’s cool. So, what did you do when you were off-duty? (07:34) DB: Um, we did a lot of relaxing and hanging out, really. We…I was on a softball team, when I was in Kansas. I don’t know. Well, in Korea, we went out and saw the country. We went anywhere that we possibly could, so that was really cool. Other than that, we just relaxed, had barbeques. Hung out and had a good time. XX: So what was the return home like? DB: When I got out completely? XX: Yes. (08:23) DB: Oh. Well, it was a really long drive. With a baby, and two cars, and a cat and a dog. But, it was really cool coming home. They had a surprise party for us when I got home, and I cried like a baby, of course, cause I totally wasn’t expecting it. But, it was after that, after the honeymoon phase of coming home was over, it was actually really hard. I found it really hard to get a job. I still haven’t been able to get a job. Mark got a job, like six months later, but, it was really weird. It’s weird coming home and not having the job and the insurance and everything that you had before. And living life in the real world. The civilian world, as we called it. Um, it was, it was a lot more difficult adjustment than I thought it was going to be. But it was good in the end, because I was glad to be home. (09:30) XX: So how do you think serving in the military has affected your life? DB: Well, it gave me my family. Um, I learned a lot. I’m in nursing school now and my experiences in the Army and all my training, it’s prepared me for what I’m going to do next. Um, it definitely gave me people skills, that made me not quite as shy as I was, which I’m happy about. It basically was the biggest learning experience of my life and I’m glad that I did it. XX: So what kind of life lessons have you learned? �DB: Um, well, (laughs). I don’t know. I learned a lot about myself and that I am very easy to get addicted to things. Like alcohol and stuff like that. Well, alcohol. Well, when you’re in the Army…when I was in the Army, you have a lot of free time and people drink. And I got in trouble a few times and I learned a lot from it. I don’t know if this is good for high school stuff, but (laughs), um, that was probably my biggest lesson, actually. Was learning that I’m easily influenced by things like that. And I had to take a step back for a while and re-evaluate what I wanted to do with my life, because if I was going to accomplish anything, I had to grow up. So, I had to grow up really fast, which is a good thing. (11:36) DB: Um, I don’t know other than that what life lessons. I think that I’m…I think I learned that family is important. I think I took people in my family for granted before I went into the military, but I learned that it is very important and you need those people there, because they’re your biggest support. XX: So what did you have to do…like if you got in trouble, what was your punishment? DB: I got in trouble a couple of times, in Korea. When you get in trouble, you have to talk to your commander, and your first sergeant and your NCOIC, the people above you. You have to have, basically, it’s a meeting that you have to have with them. And a lot of paperwork. And, um, the first time I got in trouble, they took pay from me. They can actually take your pay. They took my rank from me, so they lower me from a PFC back down to a private. Which also takes your pay, cause you’re going down a pay grade. And they can give you extra duty, which is basically doing chores around post. As soon as you get off work, and, until whatever time they tell you to do it. Like, raking, or cleaning things. Mowing the lawn. Anything they can think of. It’s not fun. So that, too. They can make you go to alcohol classes. All kinds of fun stuff. (13:13) XX: So, back to your family. You said you met your husband in Korea. DB: Right. XX: So do you want to tell us a little bit about that, your relationship, or how it was influenced by you guys being in different places maybe, or anything like that. DB: Um, we met there, and we pretty much decided that we were going to get married, so, um, so we actually were really good friends before anything. We were both with different people. So…somehow it came together. He actually extended for an extra year in Korea and I ended up going to Fort Riley, and that was really hard. We had already decided before that that we were going to get married, but um, that was really hard being away from him. It was awful, actually. And then he went back to Korea, and he was there for another six months and I was in Fort Riley, planning a wedding, by myself. And it was really hard. And then he actually got orders to Fort Riley, so we were stationed in the same place, which is a good thing, cause I don’t know what I would have done otherwise. But we got married and he had to go to Iraq three months later. Which was awful. But we made it through that year. And we got out and now we’re here. �(15:04) XX: That’s good. So you guys got married while you were both in the military, while he was still in the military? DB: Yeah. We were both in the military when we got married. And we were both in Kansas when we got married. Yep. And we both pretty much got out at the same time, so there was never one of us in or one of us out. XX: That is a good thing. DB: Yeah. XX: Well, I think that’s about all I have. Like if there’s anything else, like if you wanna talk about your uniform a little bit… DB: Um…sure. (gets up to get uniform) I’ll bring it over here. This is my uniform. It’s missing a couple of awards, and this is my specialist rank (points to pin on left sleeve). I was a sergeant and I got pregnant and I didn’t wear this when I got promoted because I was pregnant, so I never changed my rank. (Points to patch on upper left sleeve) This is the unit I was in. My last unit, for Medac, because I worked in the hospital on Fort Riley. (points to bar on lower left sleeve) This is just for the three years I was in the service. Every three years, you put another one on. This is the medical insignia. They are different on every uniform, depending on what your MOS was. This is my badge for M16. That’s sharp shooter. And this is my 9 mil. My 9 millimeter metal. Those are for shooting on the range and you have to qualify and you get a certain ranking. (17:05) DB: (points to bars) And these are my awards. I’m missing my ARCOM and my AM, but this is a good conduct metal. You get that for being in the military for a certain amount of time. These we got after…these are for the global war on terrorism, so we got these after we went into Iraq. Everybody got those if they were in the military at that time. Um, this is my Korean defense metal, I believe. I don’t remember. This is the one you get when you graduate from AIT, which is my medic school. And this is for going overseas. And, that’s about it. XX: Do you know what the pins are, there on the shoulders? (18:13) DB: Oh, these are my unit insignia, also. Um, we have a beret that we wear and that goes on the beret, also, too, so you know when you walk by someone what unit they’re in. so everyone will have different ones of these, too. Depending on what unit they’re in. XX: And one last question about your uniform. DB: Sure. �XX: Does it still fit? (18:45) DB: (laughs) Not so much. I don’t know, I haven’t tried it on but I’m sure it fits. Just without buttoning it. Um, I don’t know. But I don’t think so. I’m not going to embarrass myself and try either. (laughter) (19:09) XX: All right. Well, thank you very much for letting me interview you. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brigalia, Dianne (Interview transcript and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brigalia, Dianne Description An account of the resource Diane Brigalia enlisted in the Army after high school because she had always been interested in becoming a doctor, but was not yet ready for college. She went through 9 weeks of basic training and then was sent to Fort San Houston in Texas for EMT training. They mostly focused on field simulations and learned how to put together make shift medical centers and basically work with very few materials. Diane was stationed in Korea after she finished training and worked at the field station with the Second Engineer Battalion. She met her husband in Korea and they later got married when they were both stationed at Fort Riley in Texas. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ober, Samantha (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-05-29 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BrigaliaD Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2ee2831d802042be1ea09c879369e83e.mp4 d9f9863818e95ee6cf4287e4b7ce1a1d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7ac53a918d24b2f8bc1e3f47b8b10b17.pdf 6efa807032fcc8f86affbf9c089e2812 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Fred Breuninger Length: 34:43 (00:03) Background Information and Training • • • • • Fred was born on April 22, 1922 His father was a banker He enlisted in the Air Force He had gone to Castle Lake Military Academy so he knew how to do all of the drills and marching The basic training was in Midland, Texas and then he was moved to Sheppard Field, Texas (5:25) Deployment • • • • • • • • • • • • Fred was sent to England with the 8th Air Force He went over on a troopship called the Queen Mary [converted luxury liner] Fred stayed in a state room above the water level Once they got to Europe they had B-24 bombers He was with the 446th bomb group There were about 50 bases each with 50 bombers Fred was part of the HQ company Most of the activity happened early in the morning He was in the S3 operations part of the HQ During his stay in England he would work nights one week and days the next There wasn’t much down time, they just worked and slept Fred stayed in an officers’ hut (22:10) War Ends • • • • • They packed up the base and Fred flew home in a B-24 Everyone thought they were going to Japan next When they got to the US they were told they were going to be discharged Fred took a plane to South Dakota and was discharged He went back to Michigan and became a traveling sales manager � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Breuninger, Fred (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Breuninger, Fred Description An account of the resource Fred Breuninger was born on April 22, 1922 and enlisted in the Air Force during WWII. He had gone to Castle Lake Military Academy, and was put into a HQ company. Fred was sent to England with the 8th Air Force in the 446th bomb group that used B-24 planes. He was part of operations in the HQ Company. They would work 14 hour shifts and alternate from days one week to nights the next. After VE day Fred went back to the US and thought he was going to be sent to Japan, but was discharged and returned home to Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dion, Ben (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Air Force World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-06-01 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BreuningerF Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ee3a09f69be9367a363e1cec1d526bac.mp4 cc960ec6292baacdf3a10b2a33a651ba https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/991eab97791ee426e2850e6e05abd6bb.pdf 5bca74b6fd69c267babef0b8f733eb92 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW DONALD BRAZONES TAPE III Born: Racine, Wisconsin Resides: Byron Center, Michigan Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, August 23, 2011 Interviewer: We’re continuing our conversation with Mr. Donald Brazones of Byron Center, Michigan. We got to the point in your story where you had been shot down over Germany, fished out of the Rhine, and taken by the German police and turned over to the Wehmacht and the Luftwaffe. You were just being held at this point, in town, and a bombing raid begins and they take you out of your cell and into a bomb shelter and we pick-up the story there. Who was in there with you? First of all I have to restate that. I was not in a bomb shelter; we just went across the road and into another building. This building was more bomb proof than the one we were in and I’m not exactly sure, but we went down into the basement where maybe this other one didn’t have a basement. I don’t know why they took me over there. 1:13 Then while I was in there, and there were many people in there and I suppose they were employees of whatever was there, I don’t know. I didn’t feel very comfortable because I had a German guard there and yesterday I dropped all these bombs on these—I didn’t drop them—we didn’t because we got shot down before we could drop them, but anyway, the air force dropped the bombs there. Here again, I was nervous about the crowd. I wasn’t worried about my guard; he was a very nice guy as far as I was 1 �concerned, but I’m always concerned about the crowd and what they might think or do. 2:09 Interviewer: Did they know who you were? I have no idea because there was no discussion at all there. The bombs, when they started bombing that place—first of all I don’t know what that place was. I wish I did because I was in the aid center or hospital or whatever it was and I couldn’t figure out why they were bombing this, so it must have been something else or the bombs were spread out. Anyhow, down in the basement the bombs started coming down and it was just absolutely devastating, the concussions of the bombs and although they were concrete walls when they hit it felt almost like rubber. 3:10 The walls would actually move like rubber and also, they dropped incendiary bombs because the incendiary bombs came down where we were. They came through the vent window down into the area where we were and were burning this phosphorus was burning. The Germans had obviously gone through this before and knew all about it and yelled, ―sand, sand, sand‖. They had to get sand to put over those bombs and it looked to be routine, but me, being new to being bombed, I was scared out of my pants. 4:02 Then, after the bombing, my guard took me out and we walked over to the road and the first thing he did—when the first car came down he flagged it down and there was a German officer in there, and he went and said something to him and I don’t know what. He said, ―OK, come get in‖, and I got in the car and we rode out of the area. I guess they thought the bombing was over and went back to their normal living. We went to, I believe it was Frankfurt, and we got out of the car and we went into a restaurant and had our lunch and our lunch was potato soup and a beer, he bought me a beer too. I thought it must be German because their beer 2 �is like coffee or something, so that was enjoyable, and then—I don’t know if I’m getting mixed up here or not, but then, I think, we went to Oberursel, which is just a little outside of Frankfurt. 5:51 Oberursel, I’m not sure what that name means in German, but it was an interrogation center and apparently the prisoners were taken there. They took me there and put me in a room with just a little low bed, and the mattresses on those beds are straw, and they closed the door and it’s dark in there. 6:28 They have shutters on the windows, sliding shutters, and the only light that came in was through the cracks between the boards. I just lay there with nothing to do, nothing to read, and nothing to do anything you just lay there. 6:50 Interviewer: I have a question for you. When you bailed out and you landed in the river, you took off your boots, what did you have on your feet by this time? I had shoes, they fit over the shoes Interviewer: You did have shoes? Yeah Interviewer: I was wondering about that because I had visions of you going around in stocking feet the whole time. Thank god I had them, and in fact later, when you’re up there in the Baltic, I wished I had some boots there. Interviewer: They have you in the cell and it’s dark except for the light between the slats. Then three times a day they come in and give you some food, and the food—at breakfast time it’s usually a piece of black bread with jam of some type on it and I can’t remember what we had to drink. I don’t know if it was tea or what it was, I can’t remember, but we 3 �had something to drink. 7:54 Then at noon you would get a bowl of cabbage soup, no meat in it, just cabbage, and that was ok because I was getting hungry about this time anyhow. In the evening, I can’t remember exactly what we had there, but normally it’s just a piece of black bread and water, but nobody talks to you and the next day, the same thing, nobody talks to you. You lay there, and the third day it’s the same thing, and then the fourth day you get your turn at interrogation. 8:43 The interrogation officer, they take you into his office and you sit there and he, of course, speaks perfect English and knows about the United States, and apparently has been doing this for a long time. You go in there and you sit down and he’s very, very kind and asks me if I want a cigarette and I said, ―No, I don’t want a cigarette‖. I didn’t want to be chums with him at all. So then we start talking and I can’t remember much of the small talk, but apparently he could notice that I was relaxing a little bit or something because he offered me the cigarettes again. I said, ―ok‖, and I took it and he sort of smiled when I did that. He had done this for so many years and of course, it was my first time. 10:05 So, then we start talking and he brings out a big book and it’s a book on the 91st Bomb Group, and he pages through it and he has pictures of the hangar and the runways and everything, and a list of all the personnel. Before that he was trying to get me to say what I was and what I belonged to and I just said, ―I’m in the air force, in the air corps in the United States, and I was shot down on a bombing mission‖, and then he brought out this big book with all the information on the 91st Bomb Group. 10:59 He said, ―We’ve been at war for five years and we know as much about you as you know about us and you can’t tell me anything that I don’t know‖, and I said, ―fine‖. I think that was—Oh, did I tell you, when I wouldn’t tell him anything to start with, I just told him my name and I was with the 4 �American air force, he said, ―ok, we’ll just have you shot as a spy‖, and I said, ―you know I’m not a spy‖, ―no, I don’t know that, you could be a spy‖ he said. I’m not speaking all this out loud; I’m doing a lot of thinking on my own. 11:59 I’m thinking, ―if you’ve been at war for five years, you know damn well I’m not a spy, I was just shot out of the air this noon‖, so anyhow, that was the end of that. He took me back to my room and then the next morning I saw that my door was open a little bit. I think I forgot to say at the beginning, when I went there they took your shoes and your belt, so if you escaped you were going to have to hold your pants up and find someplace to walk, so that’s pretty smart. I looked out, nobody said anything, but I heard a little action out in the general area there, there were rooms all around there. 12:52 I looked outside and there were my shoes and belt and nobody said anything to me, but if they were there they were meant for me to put on, so I put them back on. Then people started gathering out in the central area, other prisoners and guards. Nobody said anything to be, but if they’re there I’m going to go there because that’s getting out of this place. I think back today, that if I only knew what the Germans were doing over there, as far as gassing people and killing them, I don’t think I would have gotten into a line unless I knew where it was going. Of course, me being ignorant of that, I just got in line and said, ―fine, we’re getting out of here‖. 13:53 That’s when they took us over to a train depot, I think, and then we got on the train and this car, and I don’t know how many other cars, but in our car it was just all prisoners, recent people who got shot down. The German trains, and I don’t know if it’s that way all over, and I think it was too in England, but the trains are built so they have the walkway on one side of the train and then the compartments are along there. They put us, I think eight of us, in this compartment and there are two seats 5 �and you sit and look at each other and that was it. 14:55 There had to be guards outside, I don’t remember seeing any, but the train started moving and going and I think it probably took two days to go up to Barth, which is up on the Baltic Sea in Pomerania. On the way, and at that time, the air force, the P47’s and the P51’s had a good time shooting at trains and sure enough we could hear one coming down, yak,yak,yak,yak, and he was apparently spraying the train and we all hit the floor. 16:07 You tried to protect yourself as much as you possibly could, but that only lasted a few minutes and that was over. The thing that happens is, when that train gets hit the doors get locked and the guards leave because they don’t want any part of that, and I can understand that. Anyhow, we got up to Barth, which is where Stalag I was and I think they disconnected our car from the rest of the train, so our car was the only one at the dock there, at the depot. 17:07 They got us all out, we’re standing there in a line, and a German officer comes up and I can’t really remember what he said or anything, from there on we could see the city of Barth because it’s—Barth had this, I’ll call it a cathedral or a church of some kind, and you could always—there was a significant identification of Barth. We saw that and they didn’t take us there, they took us away from there and into the barracks area of the prison. 18:04 I don’t think there’s anything very important from there, you’re just in a room, at barracks and a room, and the room, our room at the time, had fourteen prisoners in it. They had double bunks and the room was about 14x20, so you were kind of cozy in there. At least by this time you felt sort of secure getting there after all this havoc coming down into getting there. 19:03 You felt kind of secure. The prisoners who—this part of the prison camp was being built at this time, this was a new barracks we went into, and there were some prisoners in that barracks, but not all the 6 �rooms yet, and that’s why they were taking us in there, but the prisoners that were there, of course, were very kind and very considerate. They knew we were hungry, so they would bring out some of their food and they would share it with us. The one thing I got was a can of salmon about that big, and I said to myself, ―you don’t like salmon‖, but they opened it up and I ate the whole damn thing. 20:05 It wasn’t what I liked, but I was hungry, and it was actually very good that day, and I still love salmon. Interviewer: Did the prisoners explain to you what the rules of the place were, or how you had to act or behave, or what you had to watch out for? I believe so, I really can’t remember specifically. They had to because they were there and we just came, yes. I’ll just explain the daily life there. At least once a day a horse drawn wagon was driven into our compound and on it were big piles of potatoes, or rutabagas, and water, and they had special kettle, and it must have been for the field mess, maybe I should call it, that they would heat. 21:39 They would heat barley, and they had big pails of barley, maybe like a milk pail, so they would come and dump that and each barracks would come up and take their share of what there was, and also some black bread, so that was our meals and subsistence for quite a while. In addition to that though we were allotted one Red Cross parcel, now the Red Cross parcel, that was made up by the International Red Cross in Switzerland, but it was the American Red Cross. 22:38 In that they had good foods that we liked, and that’s where that can of salmon came from, or we’d get a can of pate, which is a liver spread, a big can of oleo margarine, and that’s significant and I’ll talk about that later, and a can of Spam and what you call D bars, about that size and very thick and very dark chocolate. 23:32 I guess it was made with good stuff, vitamins or something in them to help you. They had those in K-rations 7 �for the army, the American army they were in the K-rations. You were supposed to get one, supposed to get one Red Cross parcel per person per week—that’s right, there were also five packs of cigarettes in there, and cigarettes became very important because that was your money—I better not get off track here, but let me continue with that as long as I went there. In this compound you always—and when I found out what being in the service is, it’s really an experience because there are so many different people in the service and they all have different talents. 24:40 Sure enough, in our compound we had some guys who set up a store and you would have your cans of salmon, spam and cigarettes and everything in there and you could go in and buy stuff with cigarettes. One cigarette would buy you a can of something, or something like that, so I just wanted to explain that. Interviewer: You were talking about the daily routine, so they bring you the food, and did they actually give you the Red Cross parcels? Oh, yeah, they had the Red Cross parcels and then the barracks captain would distribute so many to each room and then the room would really put everything they had in the, away in a cabinet, so when it came time to eat we would distribute some of this food. 25:58 For instance, a can of Spam, you know how big a can of Spam is, about that big, and you would have to slice that in fourteen even slices. Later, the camp got more crowded and they had to accommodate the new prisoners, they came in each room and put a third bunk high, so now we had twenty people in our room, in the same room 14x20. You got very friendly, and then when you had this feast of Spam, you had to cut it in twenty slices, so the slices got smaller. 26:47 That was the only meat you had and you treated it like roasted Spam, not like an old Spam sandwich. Anyway, then your 8 �meals were—this was supplementing the German rations, which were very, very scarce. If you had to live on German rations, you wouldn’t live too long. We experienced that after Christmas. I got shot down in September and then in December, Christmas, we had a gorgeous meal and the main entrée was roasted Spam, and about that time too they stopped giving us potatoes. 27:47 They probably ran out of them, I don’t know, but then we got rutabagas, great big rutabagas like that, and some of the men in the camp were apparently farmers or knew about farming, and they said, ―usually you feed these to cattle‖, but we were just happy to get them. From Christmas to Easter the Red Cross parcels got spread out farther and farther, and instead of getting, well, we got hardly any—we got some, between Christmas and Easter we got some, but we mostly got rutabagas. The only meat you got was, they said it was horses, horsemeat. 29:02 Of course the stories go around that when a horse gets killed on the front, they bring it in here and feed it to the prisoners, so we don’t know about that except that was the only meat you had and it was very, very little of that. There was one day we got some meat and we don’t know what it was, but –I’ll tell you another thing. The way you cooked and kept warm in your room was, there was a stove, a coal stove or a wood stove about that long and that wide, sort of a narrow one, and then you would get a ration of coal briquettes a day, they were whatever your allotment was, ten a day, or whatever it was, so you used that to keep warm and to cook. 30:18 It was the only way you could cook anything, so during that period, that starvation period, we got so hungry that when we boiled the rutabagas, we decided that nothing was going to go to waste, so when we took the rutabagas out of the water, we drank the water thinking that maybe there was something good in the water. Rather than throwing it out on the ground, we drank it. 9 �Interviewer: Why was the oleomargarine important? Oh, I got to tell you that and I’m glad you asked. In our barracks there were no lights, I guess there was one, one light with a pull chain in this big room. 31:23 At night you had to close the shutters on the windows, you could not have them open, so we’re sitting in the dark, so somebody again figured it out that if they took their belt and cut a piece off of it, we had web belts, the GI belt, and stick it in the oleomargarine and light it, you would have a lamp. That’s what we had for light at night, burned the oleomargarine. Interviewer: What sort of contact or interaction did you have with the German guards? 32:10 The German guards would come in generally at roll call, every morning they had roll call and everyone had to get out of the barracks. They would line us up and then the guards would count and then they would report to the commandant there. If they were off you had to stand there and they had to recount and check the barracks. Well, they always left a barracks guard in there and they left a barracks guard in there for two reasons, he could usually speak German, and when the guard came in they became real friendly and then they would barter with the German guard about something, whatever it was you wanted to get. 33:19 Here again, I think the mode of payment was cigarettes or it could have been food from the parcels we got. That’s how the exchange would happen and that’s how you got different things in your barracks and rooms that were not GI issue. Interviewer: How was the health of the men in the camp? Were the men getting sick or having problems? I would say generally that the health was ok. 34:08 What happened to me though was—soon after Christmas, I can’t remember exactly when it was, I had a very sore 10 �throat, so I went on sick call and the doctor was British, the doctor was a prisoner also, and there were quite a few British in our camp. They were probably there first because they were fighting a lot longer than we were. This British doctor came and looked at my throat and he screamed out AH! I thought he meant for me to say AH, but he said, ― No, no, that was just an exclamation of what I saw in there‖. 35:15 My tonsils were just all coated with something, so they took me out and put me in isolation. It was just a room and there were two beds in the room and both of us were quarantined. They said I had Diphtheria, so the treatment for Diphtheria was Diphtheria serum or whatever it is. They came and they had a syringe, it had to be that long and, of course, as you’re looking at a syringe the size always gets bigger, and it was amazing because they filled it up and in by butt they squeezed the whole thing, left the needle in and unscrewed the reservoir and got it filled up again and screwed it back on and gave it to me again. 36:28 I remember how much it was, it was 30,000 British units or something like that and that was my treatment. Within a day I started puffing up all over my body. I was just puffing up and the Dr. came in and looked and I had a reaction to the stuff that they gave me. He came in and gave me one shot in the arm too to counteract what they had given me. The swelling went down and from then on I never got anything that I can remember. 37:24 I must have gotten medication every day, I don’t know, but I was in there about a month though. Then when I went back to the barracks they gave me a very wonderful thing. It was a can of cod liver oil. I don’t think that there would be enough money to make me take a spoon of cod liver oil when I’m normal, but I had to take that three times a day and being in the condition my body was, I just looked forward to the time when I could get some more cod liver oil. 38:18 11 �Interviewer: Well I hope it has some interesting nutrients in it. Probably more than rutabaga juice Interviewer: Most likely I’m sure that’s why they were giving it to me, to build me back up. I read stuff about fish oil being so good for you, and cod liver oil at that time, and I don’t know if it was in your youth, but at that time it was quite common. Interviewer: It was just going out of style, and as far as I could tell it was probably a good thing at that point. I was just—maybe that became popular during the depression or something, I don’t know. Interviewer: An old cure all kind of thing and it had a lot of vitamins and stuff in it. They keep talking about fish oil and anyhow, I think the point I’m trying to make here is that I was so darn hungry anything like that would really taste good, so I was looking forward to it every day. 39:24 Finally when the can was empty I got sad. Interviewer: In general you really didn’t have much contact with the Germans? They just left you alone in the compound most of the time? No contact with the Germans at all. In our compound there was a, I’m going to guess, and I heard this someplace, ten acres was our compound, and around the compound was a double barbed wire fence about ten feet tall and between the two fences they had an entanglement of barbed wire. 40:05 On the inside part of the wall, twenty feet from the inside of the barbed wire, they had one single strand of barbed wire, nailed to a post about this high, all the way around the compound. The reason why they had that was for the security of the Germans and anyone that crossed that single barbed wire was shot. 12 �We had guard towers all around and they would shoot you. You were told that, not to go over that fence and I never did, but when you walked around the compound you would walk right next to the fence all the time and that was our exercise and entertainment and everything was the walk. 41:12 We walked and walked and walked around that compound all the way, all the time and everybody did, so it was like a big parade. Interviewer: While you were there, were there people who would actually go over the wire or try to get out or by then were they behaving themselves? I would guess that they were behaving themselves more and I have no idea what it was earlier in the war, but I do to, and I’ll tell you about that. Oh, yeah, we heard one story, I did not see it, but I heard a story that—you know, we would have air raids too. The British and Americans would come and bomb around there and when the planes came, when these big planes, and our planes too, came they would blow the siren, and we had to get back into the barracks, close the shutters on the windows and stay in the barracks 42:22 One time, a person apparently did not hear the siren, so he came running out of the barracks and as he got out he realized that there was nobody out there and went to go back, but they shot him from the tower. I didn’t see it, but that’s the story that went around and I have no reason to believe it’s not true. 42:52 Interviewer: What shows up, at least in the history book, is that earlier on there were various escape attempts and those got dealt with harshly enough that eventually orders came from the outside, and said that the American and British prisoners were not under any obligation to escape and they should just stay where they were, so you had an earlier phase and by the time you got there, some of that 13 �may have kicked in, so you understood you would just mostly stay there and not try to crawl out or anything else like that. Well, if that is true that is a good thing, because in Stalag III they had this great escape and they dug down. Our barracks were up on stilts, the compound I went in, the barracks were up on stilts and in previous compounds they weren’t, so what would happen is, they would take this stove that was in the corner, take it off and put it on the side, and then they would take up some bricks, the stove had a brick bottom there, and then they would dig down from there. 44:17 If a guard was coming or anything they would take the stove and put it back up there and twiddle your thumbs while he’s walking around. I’ve read stories about this, so they had a very sophisticated method of digging and tunneling and when they would dig in that dirt, then the prisoners would take the dirt and put it in their pockets and then when they were walking around the compound they would get rid of the dirt, and they had to get rid of the dirt somehow. 45:17 I’m thinking, they had to be sure to spread it so the color of the dirt didn’t change otherwise they would suspect, but of course, they’re always suspecting someone tunneling out and getting out of there. In Stag Luft III, it was a very sophisticated tunnel and you would almost think that they were miners or something. Interviewer: They may have had some miners and they did have some miners in the camp. They went down there and they built some rails so they could crawl on their belly to the next area and very, very sophisticated. 46:12 One day they decided that it was time to dig up, so they could escape, and they went up, and I have to sort of guess at this, but their tunnel that came up was not far enough away from the outside, so the Germans, in 14 �fact, saw it and when all of the prisoners came up and spread themselves out, all of a sudden they were all captured, recaptured and they were all shot. Interviewer: When they recaptured prisoners, they didn’t always kill them, but they did often enough and it was just hard enough for any of them to get out of Germany at all, that the allied commanders decided they didn’t need to do that anymore, but as far as you can tell, the time that you were in the camp that you were in, there were not any organized efforts to escape or things like that, you were just waiting? 47:26 Not with me, and anyone that was anyone that was connected, of course, would be tight lipped, you don’t broadcast that to anybody. Interviewer: We talked about different aspects of the conditions in the camp. The food supply goes down over the course of time, and aside from walking, did you have any kinds of things for entertainment or recreation? Did you organize any kind of events or do things like that? Well, I went into the camp in September of 1944 and the invasion happened in June and the allied forces were getting closer and closer to Germany and in fact, when I got shot down I guess, they were at the German border. 48:30 There was not too much stuff going on, playing I mean, before that. They played ball, the prisoners played ball, they put on plays, and I wouldn’t doubt if that they had a band. The closer we got to the end of the war, and when the Germans had less and less, I mean, I don’t think the people in Barth had much more than we had. 49:33 Interviewer: They were getting short on food. So, there wasn’t a whole lot more going on there and you weren’t getting anything interesting coming in. What kinds 15 �of things did they trade? When swapping and bartering with the guards, what kinds of things could they get? Well, I think one of the things I remember was a radio and it was probably one of the most important things that they bartered for. I don’t know, but I guess I have to guess, if I was a German I would be smart and I wouldn’t give them a whole radio, I would give them a part of a radio. Give me some more food and I’ll give you another part of the radio, and I sort of think that’s the way it was, but I don’t know. 50:28 So, we had a radio and we could get, when I say we, I mean the whole prison, broadcasts from the BBC. Then they would take this information and write it out on a sheet of paper and— how would they copy that? Maybe they just---they had to have more than one sheet of paper, so they had to do it many times, because this got passed around to all of the prisoners in the barracks, so every night you would wait for that, someone to come and give you that paper, so that would tell you what you never get out of the Germans, you would get out of the BBC. 51:25 Where the troops were, what they captured, mostly about the war. Interviewer: Did you get any letters from home or could you write? I got letters from home, yes, and it took about three months before I got my first letter. I wrote some, but you can’t have much to say really. Even on the incoming letters, they were read by German censers because parts were all blacked out and you could see it, and I don’t think the American censors would do that. I wrote a few letters home, but they never got any of them. An interesting thing, and I don’t know if you’ve heard this before, but at that time, when you first became a prisoner, you had a chance to send a message home and you sent that message home by, I guess the Red Cross handled that, and you 16 �wrote the message that you wanted to send home to your parents and they would broadcast this over short wave. 53:29 There were a lot of short wave people, operators. Interviewer: Ham radio operators? Ham radio operators on the east coast, and they would pick-up these messages and go to find the families. This is what we heard last night, this is what we got and I got some of those yet. They would also write a letter to your parents telling them what they heard, ―your son might be a prisoner of war‖, so that was interesting. Interviewer: Were there other details or parts of the prisoner story? Yeah, this—when you first became a prisoner, they would give you a bowl about like that, a cup, and a knife, fork and spoon. The knife, fork and spoon being the normal tableware that you have here, and that was it. 54:44 But again, these different people as prisoners, they figured out that wasn’t enough and how could we cook our food because we have no pans or anything. Another thing that was in the Red Cross parcel was a can of klim, milk spelled backwards, and it was powdered milk. After that was gone, and somebody had figured out years before, that if you took that knife and put it down into that empty can, you could get the bottom out real nice. 55:43 So, then you had a nice flat piece of metal and I’ll just say they made it so you could put it together. They would take one end and bend it up and take this one and bend it up an put it together and put pressure on it, and you end up with a sheet of metal from cans. Then they would turn up the edges and had a pan, so that’s how you could cook your food. Interviewer: Now, were you able to do things like shave? Did you have razors or anything like that? 17 �I was twenty years old then and I didn’t have to shave very much. I can’t tell you because I don’t remember. 56:44 Interviewer: Did the men around you grow beards and things? No Interviewer: So, somebody was able to shave if they needed to. Yeah, but I don’t ever remember seeing safety razors, so they had to have it. Interviewer: The Germans were letting you have metal things, knives and forks and spoons, etc., maybe they weren’t too worried about you having sharp objects and things like that. Well, they were because again, it didn’t take prisoners very long to learn that if you rub that knife on a rock you can make it nice and sharp and pointed and it would become a lethal weapon, so that’s what they did. 57:30 There’s another thing here that—talking about the ingenuity of the prisoners—the bunks were wood framed and the bed part was framed, but then to make a bottom in it, it wasn’t solid. It had seven wood slats about that wide and long enough to fit into the bed frame and then you had the straw ticking for a mattress, so what you would have to do was space those seven slats so you wouldn’t fall through. Some of the, not very many, a few of the prisoners, if I had pictures it would be interesting to see, would make different things from these slats. 58:42 Well, I don’t know if they stole them from other people’s beds or their own, but they used these slats, and of course, what kind of instruments did you have? What kind of tools did you have? A knife, a fork and a spoon, so they would take this knife and they would take a rock and make big teeth in it, so now it became a saw and you sawed pieces of it out of this bed slat for the size and shape for anything that you wanted, you would do that. One 18 �man there, one boy there made a violin and I have a picture of that too. I think it’s in the museum now. Can you imagine that, making a violin? 59:47 Interviewer: He had a lot of time on his hands I guess. With the limited tools and everything, it looks just like a store bought violin. Interviewer: This tape is just about out and have you covered most of what you can think of? Well, they did have a library and there were various books in the library and I didn’t visit that very much. What else? That’s about it I guess. Interviewer: Now, as the war went on, you’re in the eastern part of Germany and the Soviets are getting closer and closer to you, was there a point at which they made you all get out and leave the camp for the west, or did you stay at the camp until the Soviets got there? : 43 That’s interesting, with the radio, we knew what was happening in the war. We knew where the American were and where the Russians were. As the war went on, we would get some news that the Russians had advanced some more, and at night some of these guys would open up their shutters and open up their windows and yell, ―come on Joe‖, calling for Joseph Stalin. We knew exactly what was happening and so did the Germans, of course. 1:46 One day all of the Germans left, they all left the camp. No more guards, no more nothing and guess what, the next day Joe comes, the Russian army is there and they go—these troops came from Stalingrad and they were hard soldiers. They had seen a lot and they were hurt a lot and they came on horses, which is interesting. 2:41 When they came into Barth, the story goes, they would go into a house and they would take their gun and point it at whoever answered the door and say, ‖Schnapps‖, and 19 �they had to get some Schnapps for them. Then, this one afternoon—we were up on the Baltic Sea, right on the shores, and there was a peninsula that went out like that and here’s this Russian going down on the peninsula, we could see him, as fast as he could go on a horse and he had a machine gun in his hand and he’s shooting off the bullets as he’s going and I thought, ―oh, my god, this is really something‖. We were more scared of the Russians than we were of the Germans because we didn’t know what they were going to do. 3:41 Interviewer: What did the Russians do? When they got to your camp did they just wave at you or go on or what? Well, they raided the city first and did what they wanted to do there and then they came up to the camp and they said, ―ok, we’re going to take you back to Russia and we will repatriate you to Russia‖, and our officers in charge said, ―no, we’re not going to Russia, we’re going to wait here until our troops get here. We’ve already notified the air force and they’re going to come in and fly us out‖, and somehow they made this guy understand that. 4:37 I’ll tell you one other thing though, what they did do for us is that, a day or two after they came there, they put on what we call a USO show, and song and dance and everything, and it was amazing. You would see these Russians do that Russian dance where they cross their arms and kick their feet like that, and it was a good show. We couldn’t understand anything they said, but their dancing was interesting. Then, it must be a day or two after that, and I can’t remember how long it was, possibly a week from the time we were liberated until the time the 8th Air Force flew in there. Interviewer: So, there was an airbase somewhere in the area they could land at? 5:30 20 �There was an airbase right outside of Barth. I don’t know how much you know about Barth, but the other thing about Barth is that it was some sort of a sub-depot for the Luftwaffe, that airbase. Also, in the city there was a concentration camp and we didn’t— I should say we did know because at times you would see some people out there in the field working and they had on striped suits and these hats, I think you would call them a tam for us, and stripes, and they were hauling stuff out of the flak zone, there was a flak zone there, and airplane parts, they would take them and distribute them out in the fields, and I don’t know why. 6:53 Maybe to keep the prisoners-Interviewer: There were prisoners held in the town and there were you guys outside of it. There must have been and I don’t know where they were held. Interviewer: At least there was a labor camp in the area of some kind? Yes, and like I say, a concentration camp was right in the middle of the city, and when the Russians liberated us, our officers in charge went around and they found in the city of Barth, prisoners being held in the basements of buildings and they were chained to the wall and some were dead and some were alive. 7:48 They released—those that were dead, they got rid of them, but those that were alive, our officers made the Germans do this, the German civilians in the city. ―You get out and clean up that place‖. It was a stinking mess and they made it there and they knew it was there. They got them to clean it up with a bunch of tears in the eyes of my men. I’m kind of mixing this up, but when we were leaving we had to all march down to the airport, to the runways, and when we saw this concentration camp in the city, that was the first time we knew it was there, there 21 �were bars on the windows and everything, and we walked by it then. 8:51 What was your question? Interviewer: I was asking you how you wound up getting out? Oh yeah, our air force came in and flew us out, and it was interesting because it was the 91st. Bomb Group that came and got us. The planes were all lined up and flying in, in a line, landing, coming around, sitting like that, shutting off two engines, we piled into the airplanes, filled it up, they started the two engines again and went and took off. Interesting because you read articles about that. They took us into France to a camp called Camp Lucky Strike, and we got showers and deloused and some food, some good food. 9:59 Interviewer: Did you have any problems getting adjusted to eating good food again? Well, we didn’t, because before the Russians came, somehow or other we got a bunch of Red Cross parcels, so we had a lot to eat and we got sick. The body wasn’t used to that kind of food, especially that much of it, so a whole bunch of us were sick, but that was about a two week period and we were already on our way to recovery by the time we got to Lucky Strike. 10:58 We had good food there and it didn’t bother us, but it bothered other people. Interviewer: When they got you out and they took you to Lucky Strike, did anyone debrief you? Did anyone ask you questions about your experience or anything like that, at that time? They just brought you in there and? They brought us in there and as I remember, we had choices of going home or you could go back to England and go home from there. We decided, me and a couple of my friends 22 �there, we’d go back to England. And one of the closest friends I had there was from New York, but his father was Scottish, so he wanted to go up to Scotland to see where his father was born and raised, so I went with him. 12:08 I’m not sure how long we were gone, but we were gone and then we went to, also in Scotland they have—do you know anything about Scotland at all? They have this castle up on the hill and the Scottish army puts on a show and it’s unbelievable, it’s really good. Interviewer: Edinburgh 12:45 We went back there after the war and saw another one, and Laraine had her picture taken with one of these guards. From there we—where did we leave from? It might have been Scotland. Interviewer: Did you take a ship home? Yeah, it couldn’t have been Scotland it had to be-Interviewer: Well, you could have gone out of Glasgow. All the troops weren’t up there, just a couple of us, anyhow, we got back to London, or wherever it was, maybe we left fro Liverpool I’m not sure. 13:51 Interviewer: Liverpool is quite possible. Anyhow, we got on a ship to go home, that was another-Interviewer: So, you sail out of Liverpool. Do you remember what kind of ship you were on? Was it a regular transport or Liner? Well, when we got up there, I’ll always remember, that in the harbor was the Queen Mary and man, we thought we were going to go home on the Queen Mary because it’s so nice, so they march us out, we go onto the dock, and onto a liberty ship that apparently carried sugar up there because there was sugar spilled around and the bees were flying 23 �around. 15:00 We said, ―what the hell are we doing here, we’re supposed to go home on the Queen Mary‖. That was our ride home, the liberty ship, and it was empty so it rode kind of high in the water and we had some pretty good rides as we were going up and down like this. It was kind of interesting and many, many of the guys got sick. I won’t even say this on the—anyway, our ride home was on this liberty ship, an empty liberty ship and it was not a very nice ride home. 16:11 Interviewer: Did they have bunks built into it or hammocks? What was it? I really can’t remember, so I really don’t know. Interviewer: But it was not the Queen Mary? No, it was not the Queen Mary she was in the harbor. Interviewer: Do you remember where you landed in the U.S.? Yes, we landed in Boston. Interviewer: From there did they let you get on a train and go home or did you have to go someplace to be discharged, what did you do? We went home, I think we got home somehow. I was home and I had a ninety-day leave, I think, so I had time to get reaclimated to civilian life in the United States. 17:17 However, the war in Japan was still going on and after my experience, I decided that I was going to do no more fighting with anyone, so I did everything I could to extend the time of my vacation. That’s why I stayed in England two or three weeks longer than I had to. I did not want to go to Japan and I don’t know of any prisoners that did, but it’s possible, I don’t know that. I didn’t want to take a chance. 24 �Interviewer: Well, they had the point system in place and they could calculate is you had enough to be discharged. Presumably, if you were a POW you would have had quite a few. 18:18 I think I was short a few of them. You needed 85 and I had 83 or something like that. I was thinking how I could get two more points. When I was shot down and I was in the plane and the plane lurched forward like that, the equipment in the plane came down and hit us, and it hit me on the back of the leg here and it drew some blood, but mostly a bruise. In order to get a Purple Heart you have to shed some blood and you get five points or something like that, and I was trying to figure out how I could get those points and get out, but I never did apply for it. 19:24 I decided there were too many other guys that really deserved the Purple Heart. Interviewer: Did the war with Japan come to an end before you had to go back, so that took care of it? Yes, my home was in Racine, Wisconsin and I was there, and one night I was out playing cards with the boys and drinking a little beer and when it was time to go home, I started driving, and I wasn’t driving too far, and all of a sudden this policeman is in back of me and he pulled me over. I didn’t think I did anything wrong and he comes over and he said, ―quick, turn on your radio, I think the war is over‖, so he got in my car and listened. 20:29 ―The war is over and isn’t that super?‖ That was kind of interesting. He wasn’t worried about how much beer I had; he just wanted to listen to the radio. Interviewer: Once the war ended, did you still have to go and report someplace to get officially discharged? 25 �Like I said, I was on a long leave and after that I had to go to North Carolina to get discharged. I went there and they took your history and everything and got your discharge papers. 21:08 Interviewer: Now, once you’re finally out, what do you wind up doing at that point? Do you go to college or go to work? Well, I first went on what was called fifty-two twenty. Fifty-two weeks you get twenty dollars unemployment and it wasn’t a year, maybe it was twenty-six twenty, but I think they extended that. I fooled around and I played golf and I felt sorry for myself, so I thought, ―I spent all that time in the clink, I’m going to enjoy myself a little bit. I’m not going to rush into work or anything as long as I can, I’m just going to enjoy myself‖, and there was a friend of mine that I went to high school with, and he was with Patton’s 3rd Army and he was home, so we caroused around for a few weeks. 22:25 After that I went to work. I went to work in a factory, both of us did, and we were assembling big hydraulic jacks and that was just something to do. Later I decided to go to college and the University of Wisconsin had opened up an extension in Racine where you could go for your first two years, in Racine. 23:25 After that I went to Madison and graduated in 1949. Interviewer: What did you have a degree in? I had a split—I had a degree in business, I had a split major of marketing and finance. I was always conniving; I got a split major because I could get out of college six months earlier. There was one required subject that I had to take for a marketing degree, but it wasn’t offered in that semester. I didn’t want to fool around for a semester, so I took a split major and got out of there, so that’s what I did. 24:19 26 �Interviewer: All right, once you had the degree, what did you do? There are two things I did real quickly, and the first one was to marry my beautiful wife. Before that I applied for a job at Oscar Meyer and Company and they accepted me and I told my boss, ―I can’t go to work for another couple weeks because I’m getting married tomorrow‖, or the next day or whatever it was. So that was that, we got married, we went on our honeymoon, we came back and I went to work for the Oscar Meyer Co. 25:04 Interviewer: Now, to look back on the whole thing now, and this is maybe too big a question, how do you think that whole experience in the military wound up affecting you? Were you a little different person or saw things differently than you would have if you hadn’t gone through that? That can’t be answered because I was eighteen when I went in, I was twenty when I got out, twenty-one when I got out, and those are kind of the tough years for a boy growing up , so had I not gone in there, I don’t know what would happen to me, I don’t know. I know that my experience in the service was good. I enjoyed it even though I had some interesting things happen. Interviewer: There are certainly parts you would not want to repeat. 26:03 No, but the service was good for me and I enjoyed the service. I’ll tell you one more thing. My son that was here the other day and he must have been about eighteen when the Vietnam War was going on and he said he wanted to go in the service and fight in Vietnam, and I said, ―no, you can’t go there. I’ll pay your way to Canada, but you’re not going to Vietnam‖. I felt Vietnam was a rotten war and we never should have been there killing all those innocent people. Interviewer: Did he not get drafted, so it wasn’t an issue? 27 �No, he didn’t get drafted and it’s too bad too because the service would have done him good. He would have enjoyed the service I think, and maybe not, at least I think he would. 27:10 Interviewer: I talk to quite a few veterans and the majority of them say that it’s a good experience and something that everyone aught to go through, or have, but a lot of them will say except for the war part. If you don’t have to fight a war, then it’s a pretty good thing. I really hate war and I think it’s the most stupid thing that mankind can do, people shooting people, why? Why are you doing that? Interviewer: You go and you look at the reasons for it and it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. If you look at where Japan is today opposed to what they thought they wanted to be when they wanted to build themselves and empire, and they didn’t need an empire, they got out of it. Look at Germany, what did we do? We defeated them and then, bam; we flew all this food into Germany. Germany, I can understand, I can understand that war, that maniac really had to be stopped and obviously there was no one else who could do it. In fact, we had a hard time preparing for it, so I think war is stupid. 28:36 Interviewer: One thing you learn when you talk to enough people who have been in it, it really is a pretty terrible thing and you do your best to avoid it. Part of the point of this whole project, in a way, is to let people who really don’t know anything about it, understand how bad it really is and how much goes on beyond what we see in the movies or other kinds of places. 28 �Well, I was thinking that the best place I could have served this war was in the air, and the nice part about that is, you don’t see the gory part of war. You don’t have to take your rifle and point it at this young man’s head just because he’s using a different uniform or different kind of helmet. I don’t hate that guy, why should I kill him; it doesn’t make any sense to me. I wish, I hope, I really think Obama will get us out of this damn war mentality. We’ve been in it so long, I don’t know. 29:50 Interviewer: Well, the country is pretty tired of it, you’re not alone in that sentiment, and that’s part of why he got elected. Certainly anybody who can recognize what a problem it is will want to get it out. It’s a little bit beyond our control here, but in the meantime, what you have done, is you’ve told us a really remarkable story and it’s a very valuable part of our collection. I want to thank you again for taking the time to talk to us. Well, thank you for being here. 30:13 29 �30 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Brazones, Donald L. (Interview transcript and video, 2 of 2), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brazones Donald L. Description An account of the resource Born in Racine, Wisconsin, Donald Brazones enlisted into the Army Air Corps at the age of 18 in retaliation to the Japanese's bombing of Pearl Harbor. Brazones trained to be a navigator and was sent to England to fly missions over Europe. On Brazones' 18th mission, he was shot down and captured by German Officers. His interview is a detailed recollection of his time in the service, especially his memories from the day he was shot down, and his subsequent capture, imprisonment and release from captivity. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-04-06 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BrazonesD2 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives