55 24 1541 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/764075f45e1759a8e559d668aa6e5c34.mp4 c7439faced3f6f3b66f85da9b6d00017 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/566aef1290835da46e9d709f45878d9c.pdf 85b7007ace741655a2f632c12641db8e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Richard Devries (00:32:31) (00:15) Background Information • • • Richard was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan and went to Saranac high school He enlisted in the Army in 1960 and became part of the mortar crew for the National Guard Before enlisting, Richard had previously lived on a farm (1:20) The Army Reserve • • • • • • Richard chose this area because he had a few uncles in the reserve He learned better discipline in training They traveled to Missouri for training in the summer and it was very hot Training was not too difficult for him because he had previously ran in track in high school and played baseball He had no combat experience He had been in training during the war in Vietnam but had never been called to duty (3:05) Army Title • Richard worked on a mortar crew and helped plot coordinates (3:30) Worst Experience • His worst experience while in the service was when he got poison oak in California and it took a very long time to go away (4:00) Richard had been awarded a sharp shooter badge (4:20) Activities • • • • • • While in California they were allowed to have the weekends off Many of the men would go to town on the weekends to hang out Richard was often homesick and wrote many letters If you do what you are told, then you will be treated well He went to church every Sunday morning and it always made him feel better He did not keep a journal or a log of his experiences �(7:50) Friends in the Service • • • • The men from Michigan hung out with others from Wisconsin He does not have many pictures to remember his experiences He was pretty good friends with everyone he worked with and the officers as well Some men in the service he worked with passed out after running for too long (9:45) The End of his Service • • • • He was discharged around 1965, or about 42 years ago, but it is hard to remember He then worked for 32 years at Steelcase It was easy for Richard to get back into his normal routine He made three really good friends while he was in the service (12:15) Experience in the Service • • • • Richard realized that you can’t control wars and that they are predictable He still attends some reunions The service taught him to appreciate what he left behind All the armed forces are very important and they help support our free country � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Devries, Richard (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devries, Richard Description An account of the resource Richard Devries joined the Army Reserve after high school and worked on a mortar crew to plot coordinates. Richard trained in Missouri during the Vietnam War but was never called to duty. Richard enjoyed his time in the service and made lots of friends. After serving, Richard got a job at Steelcase and now believes that all areas of the service are very important to support our free country. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Led Better, Brandon (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military United States. Army Reserve Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Veterans Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-04 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DevriesR Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/023b2b2b57553b4fa412e0b6e07ac5d8.mp4 35f0a12bb824f5700af0e6e448140a0c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2e776eb0894635c716e5be69027049ae.pdf 0096ca4c0382f9eb844314f0c4f73e87 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Milton DeVries (00:34:34) (00:00) Background • Born in 1918 • Father worked in a flooring factory • Mother died when he was six years old o Moved in with an aunt and uncle in Jenison, MI o Went to Sand Hill • Moved back to Wyoming after his father remarried • Graduated from Grandville High School in 1936 • Worked in the factory, with his father, until it closed in 1937 • Worked “odd jobs” from 1937-39 • Hired at General Motors in 1939, and worked in material handling (02:35) Joining the US Army • Drafted • Went to Fort Custer, Battle Creek, MI in April 1941 o Worked in “pits” – maintaining a shooting range • Went to Camp Beauregard, LA from Fort Custer o Underwent basic training o Member of Company F-127th Infantry Regiment, 32nd Division � Mostly new recruits in company � Most members were from Cheboygan, WI o Assigned to do “grunt work” – picking up cigarette butts o Was a newer camp, with tents used as room and board for recruits (06:00) Training • Simulated war • Weather was hot and rainy – similar to weather in Pacific Theater • Stayed from May 1941 until early-1942 o Was sent to Massachusetts • October 1941 – largest US army operation until that point o Was captured, and was a POW for a few days • Used World War I-era weapons and equipment • Soldiers had to walk • Went to Alexandria when he had weekend passes (08:05) o Describes Alexandria o 20-30 miles away from camp • Was a regular infantryman o Trained in rifle department �(09:35) Pearl Harbor • Troops had to be ready to mobilize quickly • Stayed in Massachusetts until February or March • Was scheduled to go to Europe on the SS Normandy o Normandy burned o Sent to help Gen. MacArthur • Sent to San Francisco o Prepared to be shipped out to Pacific Theater o Was a strange experience, because Mr. DeVries had never left MI (11:37) San Francisco and Australia • Stationed in Fort Ord o Issued new equipment o Stayed for a month • Shipped to Australia o Felt “fortunate” to be assigned to submarine watch duty � Did not have to wait for lunch • Got sick when he saw other soldiers getting sick (14:04) o Describes how other soldiers got sick • Landed in Adelaide, Australia in late-April, 1942 (15:00) o Was originally supposed to land in Sydney, but the Japanese found out about the landing o Stationed in Australian camps � Camps were vacated, because Australian troops were in Egypt o At first ate Australian food, such as mutton � Many men threw it away � Later bought bread from local farmers � Some men were able to get eggs o Stayed in Adelaide for three to four months o Went into town whenever he could � Describes Adelaide as a “nice” town o Did not do much training • Left Adelaide for Brisbane, Australia (18:18) o Troops had to vacate trains each time they approached a “state” border, because the railroads were privately owned o Underwent training, by American officers, in Brisbane (19:57) New Guinea • Went aboard a Liberty Ship – arrived right after Thanksgiving • Landed in Port Moresby o Describes it as a small town with “just a few buildings” o Japanese would bomb at night, but no casualties were suffered • Went to Japanese air field after it was captured by the 126th Infantry o Troops ordered to scatter after landing, to avoid being bombed o Lots of jungle surrounded the air field o Some trails were found around the air field �� � Japanese set up gunners on the trails US soldiers encouraged to walk through the jungle (22:45) Encounters with the Japanese and battle • Scheduled for action on Christmas o Rivers slowed the infantry down o DeVries was in the last boat that the Japanese let cross the river, before firing upon other boats o Joined by 30-40 men • DeVries “didn’t really see the Japanese” o Troops were ordered not to fire o His company was never directly attacked by the Japanese, at this point • Joined the siege of Buna mission in January 1943 o Japanese troops were well-fortified, causing US soldiers to attack Japanese soldiers from close-range o Except for a possible mortar, there was no artillery or air support o No support from Australian troops o Got “fire” from Japanese in tall grass on 2 January 1943 (27:58) � One of DeVries’ friends was killed � DeVries was shot while trying to throw a grenade • Went into shock • Was pulled back across the river, and taken to an aid station o Stayed 10 days o Had to have intestines sewed up � No pain killers � Could not drink – given a wet rag to chew on o His incision tore open on 14 or 15 January � No doctor was available at the aid station � Was taped and sewed up • Landed in Port Moresby on 16 January o Stayed in a hospital tent o Later boarded an Australian hospital ship • Went to Sydney from Port Moresby o Stayed in a hotel-turned-hospital until 1 May 1943 (31:15) Return to the US • Went back to US from hospital o Left when he was able to walk o Rode on a boat with Australians who were to be trained in Canada • Landed in San Francisco, and stayed in a hospital o Was transferred to a hospital in Battle Creek, MI • After the hospital stay, he went on a two-day tour of giving Bond-Selling speeches in Detroit o Talked about his experiences in the war o Spoke mostly to workers at the plants in Detroit �• o Was well-received o Returned to Battle Creek after the tour Discharged on 16 August o Got his job back at GM 30 days later � Another worker left for the military, so took over his bookkeeping job � Worked at GM for the next 30 years o Got married following his discharged (34:34) Reflections on his experience • Had nightmares for several months after he was discharged • He had drastically aged, physically, during his time in the service • Feels that he grew up a little bit in the army • Believes that “you can survive with pain.” • Feels that the Japanese soldiers were in the war for the same reason that he was � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Devries, Milton H. (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devries, Milton H. Description An account of the resource Milton Devries was drafted in 1941 and sent to Camp Beauregard, Louisiana, to join the 127th Infantry Regiment, 32nd Division. He served with this unit on New Guinea, where he was badly wounded at Buna. After an extended hospital stay, he saw duty in Australia and the United States before being discharged. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-10-04 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DevriesM Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4627f039a4ccb193c6abeb6f40f9066f.mp4 bb9b176b56697f04b4d80b223a82f571 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dbc666c41b7c7d0ec7d0bcd68eb2fd97.pdf b12a01359ad39d89ee1bf6f8f9537674 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Air Force, Air National Guard: pre-Iraq, Iraq Autumn DeRoo Length of Interview: 52:36 (00:00) JS: We’re here today with Autumn DeRoo of Holland, Michigan. The interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State Veteran’s History project. Autumn, can you start by giving us a bit of background on yourself. For instance, where and when were you born? AD: I was born in 1979, in Holland, Michigan. So I grew up in western Michigan. JS: Okay. And can you say a little bit about your family background. AD: Well, I have parents who were divorced when I was young, and… ooh, what else. What would you like me to say? JS: Well, like your maiden name is Chavez, for instance. AD: Yes. It is. My dad is Hispanic and my mom is Dutch. So it’s a unique combination. So I grew up in west Michigan, Holland particularly. Went to West Ottawa High School, graduated in 1997, from there. I don’t know what else to say. JS: Well, from that point, did you join the Air Force from there? AD: I did. I signed up prior to graduating from high school. I knew very early on in high school that I didn’t want to pursue a college education. Because I didn’t really know how, because it was not available to me. My parents didn’t go to college. And that weren’t really familiar with that. It was, you graduate from high school and you go on into the work force. (01:17) JS: What kind of student were you in high school? AD: Not a very good one. (laughs) Not a very good one. I was quite bored a lot of the time. I wasn’t interested in a lot of the subjects. And I don’t think I was really well prepared at home, for schooling, whether it was the high school level or the college level. And so I was not real interested in the studies in high school. So…I didn’t really do much with that. JS: Okay. And where did you get the idea of joining the military? AD: Well, I have a family background, of the military. My great uncles, two of them, they had a full career. My dad was in the military. He served in Vietnam. My grandfather and my great grandfather were all in the military. I didn’t really think too much about it but my uncle, I spoke to him more and I got a little bit more information from him and he helped me to make the �decision on what was best for me. And, you know, as far as the branches and what the service could offer for me. (02:31) JS: So what was appealing to you about the Air Force? AD: Well, the biggest thing was it was a job and training. I didn’t really know about the benefits until much later. But that’s exactly what I needed. I didn’t want to work in a factory. I didn’t want to have my parents life, essentially. Cause that’s what you did at that age. You would go to high school and sometimes not even finish and then you would go straight into a factory and you know, do whatever job was available to you. But I knew that wasn’t really how to make a future for myself. So I really wanted to have some sort of training, some sort of skill. So I knew that the military, in speaking with my uncle, would be able to offer those skills to me, that training, and give me a career. So that’s my primary reason for joining and having that opportunity. (03:23) JS: Why the Air Force rather than the Army or the Navy or something like that? AD: Well, my original thought was to be a Marine. I really wanted to be one of those hard-core Marines and join more for the patriotic type, kind of my more naïve thought of that. But after speaking with my uncle, and of course, I was seventeen when I joined, so I needed both parents signature, and they were really against the Marines and any sort of combat job. So they signed off on the Air Force, and my uncle, of course, after speaking with him, he was in the Navy, and he thought that would be a good way to go, so I decided with the Air Force. JS: Okay. And once you sign up, what’s the induction process and so forth? What happens next? (04:19) AD: Well, you meet with a recruiter and they kind of give you a lot of information. Very overwhelming. You don’t know, if you go alone or if you don’t go with somebody who knows the process, you don’t really know what to expect and it’s kind of hard to thumb through all the information. But, I went with my uncle to the first meeting and I decided it was really for me. He gave me my options. Also, having my uncle there to really kind of walk me through the process and know what I can and cannot do, was very helpful. So you see the recruiter and you cedide whether or not it’s for you and you sign up. I was in the delayed enlistment program, which was, you sign up in high school and until you graduate and you’re ready to be shipped off. that’s what they call it, the delayed enlistment program. Then after I graduated I decided, I went to the military processing center in Lansing, and that’s where you decide, you know, what you want to do in the military. (05:29) AD: My uncle also mentioned that you really need to sign up for a guaranteed job, or they can throw you in categories and groups and you don’t know. And I really knew at that time in 1997, that I really wanted to do something in computers, in technology. I was really interested in that �portion of what was coming. And so I went for that career and I said this is the job that I want, and I don’t want to go in with just sort of an open field. I want to sign up for that job. So I signed up for that job. And then all of your dates are kind of around, scheduled around, what you want to do. So then after that you just kind of wait until you’re shipped off to basic training. (06:18) JS: Okay. Now do they do any kind of testing at this stage, you know, to find out what your aptitudes are, if you’re qualified for particular types of training? AD: Yes. Actually. I forgot about that. It’s called the ASVAB. Um, it’s a military standardized testing and they try to place people where they’ll be successful. It is an aptitude test. They have, well, when I went through, they had four different categories and they would test your skills, so they can put people where they’d be most successful, most comfortable, and where they would grow and work out. And, so, there’s a test that you do take, prior to going to the military processing center in Lansing to decide where your career is going to go. (07:05) JS: Okay. So when you’re meeting with them, they already have the tests results so they can be looking at that, or does that come in later? AD: Um, now I think it’s all automated. So, yeah, I think you do get it. When I took it, it was paper and pencil and [purple?] sheets. So I got a raw score the next day, but then my score would come later on. But, I’m almost certain that it’s all computerized now. JS: Right. Well, basically, you did well enough on that, despite the spotty school career prior to going into that, that you could go where you wanted to go. AD: Yes. Yes, I was able to meet the criteria for the career choice that I took. So… JS: And where then did they send you for basic training? (07:49) AD: I was in San Antonio, at Lackland Air Force Base. That is where the Air Force basic training is located at. JS: And what did that consist of? AD: Um, looking back, it all just seems kind of silly. Not the training. The training was intense. It was very serious and helpful and really was an incredible experience looking back. At the time, it wasn’t necessarily the most fun. JS: So what do they have you do? AD: Well, it’s a lot less intensive than the other branches, from what I’ve heard. You have your physical training. You have your mental training. You have a lot of different classes, as far as military history and, you know, kind of going over what the Air Force is about. You learn a lot �of the different regulations and policies and they just are trying to educate you, to make you understand about the military. And how we work and how we function. And they kind of go on with those kinds of classroom work. So you have classroom work, you have the physical work. You have the drilling. Which consists of the marching and those types of formations and whatnot. Then, goodness, I’m trying to remember, it seems so far back. (09:16) AD: Just a bunch of different trainings. Ultimately, they’re really trying to reshape you into a military minded person. They’re not trying to change you. They’re not trying to make you somebody different. They’re just trying to shift your values and how you live your life. And what’s important for the military. JS: Okay. How much emphasis was there on discipline and following orders? AD: Lots of discipline and following orders. So there was a heavy emphasis. I mean, ultimately that’s really what the military is about. The discipline is throughout your career. It’ll be throughout your life, if that’s something you take to heart. Um, following orders is very important. It’s not like what you see in the movies. That’s very extreme. It’s just very important, I mean, especially during intense times. And I’ve never been in a war situation, but I can imagine that those orders need to be followed without question. And that’s certainly something that they try to emphasize, because in times of war and intense moments, you would really have to, you can’t think about it and you can’t question it, you just have to do and trust that your officers and your non-commissioned officers, they really know what they’re talking about. (10:39) JS: Were you surprised by any of the stuff they had you do, or were there things that you didn’t expect, or was it pretty much what you thought it would be going in? AD: I can’t, ummm… as far as basic training, there was the cleaning. I mean, you had your details and whatnot and they were very focused on cleaning and laundry, and…you had certain people who did laundry, and certain people who cleaned the barracks and certain people who cleaned the latrines, certain people who did certain things, and so that was really interesting to me. But it builds a sense of that’s your job, you need to hold responsibility for it, not only to you and the person you’re working with, but to the entire group. Because if you are not successful, you know, sweeping the floor, it seems so irrelevant, but if you’re not successful with that, then the entire group is not successful. And so, even though if you’re not actually doing that, it may sound silly, but it really is a good exercise to bring a bunch of people who don’t know each other together and we need to work together as a team and really, um, you know, make this happen. So it was kind of a training exercise, which was, it was quite interesting. (12:00) JS: Okay. What was the most difficult or challenging of that first stage of training? AD: The mental aspect. You know, at seventeen, it wasn’t my first time away from home, but you know, you kind of get used to your life. To your, I don’t want to say freedoms, but you’re used to just coming and going as you please. It really gets mentally draining, as far as you know, �trying to go down that route. But at the end of training, you’re really, you’re used to it. And it’s something that is very important and it becomes a part of you, so the mental part and trying to get through the training, and worried about any sort of failure, I think that was my toughest obstacle in that part of the training. JS: So were you in good physical condition when you went in? So you could handle the exercise and physical training and that kind of thing? (12:58) AD: Yeah, I wasn’t in the best. I didn’t run, like four miles a day, or anything. But I wasn’t overweight or had heart problems or asthma or any of those types of problems that would become an obstacle to doing the physical part. I was just average. Average high school kid, McDonald’s and life, and non-exercise life, so… JS: All right. Now what kind of people were you training alongside of at that point? You know, where were they from, what kind of backgrounds did they have? AD: All over. I mean, I remember there was people of all ages. Seventeen year olds. There were people in their twenties and thirties. I want to say, oh, not at that point, we didn’t have the older. There was this one woman I knew, she was much older. Um, but, we had people who were in the civil air patrol. People who didn’t graduate high school, people who did college for a little while. It was, it’s just such an array of different people and different backgrounds, people in the training. There’s men, women, I mean, in my whole bunk or dorm or whatever it’s called, I can’t even remember, you know, it’s part of the barracks, the women’s barracks. I mean, it was full. We had sixty women just in my flight alone, so it wasn’t very limited on women, and I mean, there’s all sort of different people from different backgrounds. (14:29) JS: Okay. Now when you finish the basic training, what do you do next? AD: You go on to your technical training. They will send you to, um, whatever base your technical training is. It’s all over the United States, so um, that’s pretty much what you do next. You just go to directly into your career field training. JS: Okay. So where do they send you? (14:55) AD: Biloxi, Mississippi. Keesler Air Force Base. That is where the Computer Communications Operation is housed out of. That’s my career field and so that’s where home is for training. JS: And what kind of a place was it physically? In Lackland, we have a really big extensive base, so what was Keesler like? AD: It was much smaller than Lackland. Of course, Lackland is big. It’s over across a couple of roads, and you know, just ginormous. But Keesler is smaller. It’s right on the coast. Right �across the street is the Gulf of Mexico, so it’s smaller. But it’s still bigger in comparison to some of the bases that I’ve worked at, so it’s probably average. (15:45) JS: Okay. How many people were you training with? Did you have kind of a class or a cadre that you were with, or how did that work? AD: Yes, you do have, you have classes starting each week. And you have, I want to say an average sized class. Maybe fifteen. Twenty people, roughly. Um, but you would start out, you had one class starting out one week and the following week you had another class. And if you failed, then you would jump back into the other class. But, pretty much everyone stayed with their class and then at the end, you would have your graduation with your particular class that you were in. JS: Okay. So what actual skills or training were you picking up at this point? (16:29) AD: For mine, it was the computer communication skills. So we were doing a lot of work, hardware, software, networking, um, what else were we doing. We did a lot of the fundamentals and principles of technology, of computers in general. And the infrastructures of networks. We did a lot of that type of work. They cram it all into three months, so you were working quite long and a lot of homework and a lot of studying. JS: Now did you get any time off? Like did you go to the beach, or anything like that? AD: Sort of. Right after basic training, after six weeks of this hard drilling and away from everything, no phone calls, no sort of luxuries, you go into your technical training. So to prevent people from going completely wild, you graduate into steps into your luxuries. So, the first two weeks, you’re still wearing your full uniform. You have a certain curfew. You can’t do certain things. And then the next two weeks, you might be able to take your uniform off in the vening and wear civilian clothes. (17:49) AD: Um, but you still have curfews and stuff. So you kind of graduate into the different steps of what your luxuries are. Um, and then ultimately by the last step, you can go off base, you have extended curfews, you can do certain things. That’s the ultimate goal. But the reason they do that is so that you can just gradually step out of the hardcore basic training drilling and mentalities. So you kind of ease out of it. JS: What was the gender balance in your class? Was it about even, men and women, or more of one or the other? AD: No, it was more men. My career field definitely has a lot more men. I don’t know about today, but there was definitely a lot more men than women. I think there was myself and I want to say, two or three other women, in my class. �(18:51) JS: Okay. I guess part of it is we think of it as the computer science side of things, you have a lot more men, if you think communications, you might have more women in there, or something like that. But the group you were in, at that point, it was still largely male. Were there any issues with that dynamic or were you all just kind of in this together so it didn’t matter? AD: Well, we were all in it together, so I don’t really think that there was any sort of imbalance there. I mean, there wasn’t any “I’m doing this better.” There was a lot of, at this stage, there was a lot of we’re all working together, we all have the same goal, we all want to succeed and learn, so we’d ask each other questions. We very much worked as a team. But we also had retrainees in there, which ae people who are in the military and are changing their career field. And so we had a lot of some older presence in there. And some actual experience presence. Um, so that was good to know and have that network and support. And they were just really helpful in military knowledge in general as well as with the classroom. (20:03) JS: So that’s about a three month span, you said, that you’re there? AD: Yes. My class was a three month span. You have classes depending on the career that can be six weeks all the way to a year, two years, when you get into the extensive, like when you get into linguists. But my particular one was sixteen weeks. JS: And once you complete that, what comes next? AD: Well, towards the end of your training, you will get your first assignment. So then you prepare, you start preparing to go to that assignment. And so, it can be anywhere. You, they give you a dream sheet, is what they call it. Because ultimately, that’s what it is. It’s this is where I’d like to go. But they can pretty much send you anywhere. If you really don’t want to go overseas, I think that you can request that. Especially with your first assignment. I didn’t get an overseas assignment but I can’t remember really exactly how that works. But I ended up going back to San Antonio, at Brooks Air Force Base. And that was my first assignment. (21:10) JS: Okay. And what kind of work were you doing there? AD: Um, a bunch of different work. We had, I worked for the small computer center, which is basically a fixing of the computers. They really you know, they do the hardware and the software and they resolve any sort of issues there. I also worked for the inventory. We kept all of the base inventory. So we had to be responsible, be accountable for all the equipment on base. So I worked for them as well. Um, and I worked for the Help Desk a few times, just kind of filling in and whatnot. But those were my primary jobs, at Brooks. JS: All right. Again, what was sort of the routine like there? (22:00) �AD: Well, when you first come in as an Airman Basic, which I was, you have to live in dorms and you have to live on base until a certain time. So I lived in a dorm on base. Um, and so that was kind of incorporated into the routine. And then, you know, it was just very much a Monday through Friday, 8-5 job. Just go in and do work. That base in particular, didn’t have the odd shifts and hours. It was a very day job. Because they had a lot of civilians who worked there. Um, they did, what are those things called? They’re those machines that, um, gosh, I can’t remember. They’re those machines that they put you in it… JS: Are they flight simulators? AD: Well, they did have flight simulators, but they did some sort of, I can’t really remember. Like if you have some sort of injury and they put you into these. JS: Oh, MRI’s? (23:04) AD: No, there more of…I can’t remember. JS: Okay. AD: Sorry, I just can’t but it was a really interesting aspect of that base, but I didn’t work there, so it wasn’t really that important to me. I can’t rembmer what they were called. But they did have flight simulators. JS: What was, as far as you could tell, what was the main function of the base? What did they do there as opposed to Lackland or someplace else? AD: Um, pretty much the unit, that unit I was telling you about, that was their main function. They were really losing the functionality of the base. And it’s now a city base. I spoke to somebody the other day, and they now have a Best Buy on it, and it’s no longer a guarded air force base. I mean, like, they have shopping centers and whatnot on it. So it’s not really, I mean, it was being phased out, so there wasn’t a real strong mission there. (24:03) JS: I guess in the late ‘90s, generally, the military was doing a lot of downsizing, and so forth. Was that really noticeable to you, from your perspective at the time? Were you seeing that things were changing or shifting or is that something you figure out later? AD: I think it’s stuff that you figure out later. At that time, from what I understood, before I got there, they really weren’t getting a lot of new people. And once I got there, we were getting people all the time. So, I didn’t really notice it then. But then looking back at it now, it kind of made sense because ultimately the base closed, as kind of an air force base and is now a city base, whatever that may mean. (24:48) JS: All right. Now how long did you spend in that assignment? �AD: I want to say I was there from ’97 to ’99, so a couple of years. A little over a couple of years. JS: All right. And do they just kind of routinely move people around or do you request changes, or, what’s your next step? AD: I actually requested the next change. I was ready for a different job and to move on. They do occasionally have assignments that come out. You know, looking for someone of this qualification to go here. Um, or, when it’s time for assignments, you can be thrown in the mix and you’ll get assigned wherever. So this assignment came out to go to Colorado Springs, Colorado. And so I applied for it and I actually was assigned to, for that assignment. That’s where I ended up next. (25:45) JS: Okay. And then what kind of job did you have there? AD: Well, I worked for Cheyenne Mountain Air Base. Um, it’s the mountain complex that you see on Stargate SG-1. (laughs) So everyone is, is that where you were working? Is that the real one? It’s not the real picture, I don’t think. Um, but that was really interesting. The complex is inside the mountain. It’s on these huge springs. I mean, the building is on these huge springs. You have a couple of blast doors that you have to go through. And you have to take the bus inside the mountain, or you can walk, but it’s a long walk. So I was doing pretty much the same thing. I worked for US Base Command and NORAD. I worked on the help desk. For a few years. And I’ve done odds and ends. I’ve done different jobs here and there. Network administrator, NT administrator, just different jobs. (26:45) JS: All right. And what was the atmosphere like at this place, as opposed to the other bases you were at? Did it have a different feel to it because of the nature of duty there, or… AD: It did. I think that’s a good observation. I think, it maybe did feel a little more important. I don’t want to say that any mission is not important, because they all are, um, but being nineteen, at that time, it’s nice to feel like you have more of an importance that just doing an 8-5 job and you know, fixing computers. While that seems…that it still important, but at that time, I felt like this job was more important because of the nature of the US Base Command and NORAD, that’s who I was working for, (27:30) JS: And how long did you spend there? AD: Three years. JS: And were you still, now were you able to live off the base, or were you still on it, or what were you doing? �AD: I started living on the base. I was still a lower ranking. But at that time, I was at Colorado, I was eligible to move off base, and so then, yes, I did, transition to living on my own. JS: Now that’s also the area where the Air Force Academy is. Was there any connection, or back and forth, between the base and the academy, or… AD: I didn’t have any work connection with the Air Force Academy. Um, it’s a beautiful, beautiful base. The hospital, our military hospital is up there, so I have gone up there. But no work relation. Um, Cheyenne Mountain and Peterson Air Force Base, those two are very connected and I actually worked on both. Of Peterson and Cheyenne Mountain. And then there’s another one, Schriever Air Force Base, I’m not sure whether it’s still there. But so it was a large military community. (28:34) JS: Now, were you working at Cheyenne Mountain at the time of 9-11? AD: I was. I was. Very…um, everyone tells me it’s an interesting story, but it was my everyday life. So, um, I was thinking about that this morning. If that would come up. But, yeah, the morning of, you know, they talk about knowing where and what you were doing, Kennedy, Pearl Harbor, stuff like that. I mean, you don’t know that until you experience it, and you know, I can tell you exactly where I was sitting, exactly what I was eating. I had just come on for duty. Um, and next thing you know, two people came running down the stairs and flipped on the news, cause they had access to a tv, on the third floor, and so, all of this unveiled and happened and then we just pretty much had to sit and wait, wait for orders and wait to see what was going to happen. Um, they shut down the Mountain. Closed the blast doors. It was just an intense time. Because I worked for, I worked in the NORAD, where they watched the air and space and so we really had to make sure that everything was functioning properly. We really had to be on high alert, because of everything that was going on. Everything with the airplanes, and the whole air traffic, and so that was what the monitor, you know, of. And so that was a really interesting and tense time. (30:11) JS: Cause at that point, they basically emptied the skies. All aircraft had to land and get everybody down and so forth, and so you’d in part, be monitoring that. Now basically, you were just providing service. You weren’t necessarily watching the radar or anything like that, at that point. AD: No. No. We provided the service. I worked at the Help Desk at that time. And so if anything were to go down, or if anything was needed, that’s kind of what our function was. And we had to really be on the ball, especially with the communication factor. Because we had to make sure that our communications, obviously they’re secure. But we had, also we had to make sure that the communications lines remained opened and that they could have that communication outside to the necessary parties. Um, so we had to really make sure that everything was up and running and smoothly. JS: How long did you stay locked down? �(31:13) AD: Oooh, I think, this was about 7. Our shift was 7 to 3. I don’t remember getting out of there at 3. It was a while afterward. Um, they sent some people home. Some people were required to stay due to the nature of their job, but they did swap out the shifts because they didn’t know what was going to happen. I did stay past the shift, and they had to call in the next shift, but I can’t exactly remember how long, but it was quite some time. JS: And then did you do things at all differently after that, or were there other kinds of things that you had to do following up on all of this, or did life go back to normal pretty quickly? (32:05) AD: No. Life took a very long time to get back, and not to normal. It hasn’t been normal since then on a military base. Ultimately, all of the bases were closed down for days, I actually lived on base at that time, and I actually couldn’t get back on base, so that was kind of difficult. I had to find a place to crash for the night, you know, because I couldn’t get back home. So, you know, I mean, just really secure. Um, really intense and it stayed that way for a very long time. Our operations within work were very high paced, intense as well, and because of the somber mood of everybody, that was just something that we just really focused on work, and we just really made it happen, because you don’t, I mean, it was a tragic time. And that’s what you focus on. You want to make it right. And you want everything to work. And you don’t want anything to fail because you don’t want anything like this to happen again. So that was kind of the mood and the tone that was set. (33:20) JS: All right. Now, not too long after that, we launched the invasion into Afghanistan, all that kind of thing. Was that anything that had any kind of connection to what you were doing at Cheyenne Mountain? Or was that other people’s business and you just did your stuff? AD: That was pretty much other people’s, you know, missions and whatnot. And honestly, I didn’t really know a lot about what was happening in the Middle East until I was on my next base, in Europe. So until we actually launched the war, or the military operation on Iraq, so…I wasn’t really aware of what was going on because our missions were not directly related to that. JS: Okay. Now when do you switch to your next assignment, when do you move out? (34:11) AD: In 2002, is when I ended up going to my next assignment. Which was Lisbon, Portugal. It was a NATO assignment. So it was not necessarily an American geared mission. It was an overall NATO mission. JS: Well, can you talk a little about what was going on there, in Lisbon, what you were doing there? AD: Um, it was actually kind of the same as at Cheyenne Mountain. I was kind of working in a support department. But I wasn’t actually at a NATO base, I was at a Portuguese Air Base, that �had a NATO contingent. And so there were only four Americans there. Three officers and myself, an enlisted person. So there were four of us working. I did kind of the computer, techy stuff and they did their positions. And I worked very closely with the Portuguese military, that’s pretty much the majority who was there. I had one Spanish military person and one Italian military person, who I was working with too, so that was quite interesting. (35:24) JS: How was working in that situation different from working in an American base? AD: Well, um, that was, well…that was really an interesting time. The only women that were in this contingent, um, they were secretaries. There were two. They were secretaries and very much treated as such. So that was kind of interesting, trying to be taken serious and, um, being able to do my job, because, you know, it’s a different culture. So that was very interesting. And just the military, how they’re just relaxed with rules and regulations. I mean, we worked in a bunker, underground. But they all smoked. You can all smoke, as so that was certainly different. Coffee breaks were all the time, which I didn’t mind so much. They had good coffee, or [beaka], as they would it. And it’s certainly just a different mentality. It’s very relaxed. I mean, they’re very serious about their job and they take pride in their job. But it isn’t as intense…I don’t know, it’s more of a relaxed feel. And people are like, we have a mission, we have a job, but it’s also more of a peace mission, so it’s not intense. (36:58) JS: Now, what kind of activities were they serving or supporting out of that base? Were they connected to peace-keeping efforts in south eastern Europe, like that? Or could you not really tell what they were doing? AD: Well, a lot of it was hard, because even though the NATO language was English, um, I want to say 97 to 98 percent of the people who worked there were all Portuguese. So a lot of the conversations and whatnot took place in Portuguese. And um, so I really didn’t understand the mission fully. I knew that it was kind of like a NORAD mission, I mean you can see they had their monitors where they would monitor the air, but I want to say it was more that they were monitoring the military aircraft versus any sort of civilian aircraft. So, and they were connected to all of the other NATO combined operations center. And we were all kind of connected that way. But as for the actual goal and mission, it’s kind of fuzzy to me just because they all spoke Portuguese. (38:10) JS: Now did you live on the base or someplace else? AD: Off the base. All of the Americans over there, we didn’t have any sort of on-base housing. There is one other NATO facility which is actually considered the NATO base, in that area, that we kind of headquartered out of, in Oeiras. And that was kind of where our stuff was. But we all lived out in the communities. JS: So did you have an apartment some place? �AD: Yes. I had a condo in one of the small villages. Um, where a lot of Americans lived and whatnot. It was very accessible to trains and all of the tourist area, which was nice, cause they speak English. And it was located close to the beach, and really a lot of the nice area, so that was really nice, just to experience the culture in that way. (39:04) JS: Okay, and now, you’re working with a lot of European men and so forth, and you mentioned that they weren’t quite sure what to do with female military personnel, did that ever become a problem? Did you face any kind of harassment, or was it not at that level? AD: It wasn’t at that level. It wasn’t at any sort of harassment level. It was more of an irritation level and just being strong minded, I guess. I’ll put it nicely. They would, I would kind of…I wouldn’t necessarily be mean, but I would be verbally strong and hold my ground, so you know, let them know that I am here and I can do the job and whatnot. So ultimately, after a few months, you know, I don’t think from my personal perspective that they came to trust that, you know, but at least they didn’t just make me sit at a computer, and you know, try to make me be their secretary. (40:22) JS: Okay. So they would have wanted you to do things that weren’t part of your job description as far as little jobs for them, or… AD: Um, not necessarily for them. I think they just needed to employ me, but they didn’t want to employ me how I was supposed to be used. So I think it’s a big culture, and women in the military for them is recent. So I didn’t, at first, I took it a little personal, but then after learning more about the culture and stuff, I kind of figured out how I kind of needed to bypass that and I didn’t entirely do that. But, you know, I was able to do what was needed of me. And it worked. (41:16) JS: Okay. And how long did you spend there? AD: Two years. JS: Now, you’re there then when the invasion of Iraq starts, and all of that kind of thing. How did that affect what went on at the base when you were there, what you were doing? AD: It didn’t affect our mission. It did affect the person… I don’t want to say personalities. It did affect the mood there. You know, a lot of people that I worked with, they didn’t agree with Americans. They certainly did not like George Bush. And they made it, they were very vocal about it. They made that clear. Um, the best way I found was just to stay out of it. Not to really voice any opinion or side, or what I thought, or just let them talk about it, you know, let them at least talk to an American so they feel like they’ve been heard. So let them talk about it and that’s fine. Everyone has the right to their opinion. I mean, Americans have their same beliefs, which is what these people were saying. I mean, fine. You can have your opinion and whatnot and I’m not going to say that you’re wrong or unjustified. I’ll let you talk to make yourself feel better. So that was very interesting. I heard a lot of, you know, America this. But a lot of people were �really, they could see the bigger picture. So you had both sides. So it was kind of nice to see that you had both sides, of people viewing the bigger picture and um, really supporting and understanding of the United States. But then you also had people who were concerned, just like we all are. So that was kind of interesting. (43:05) JS: All right. Did they transfer people out, or did any of the Americans who were working during that period go somewhere else or did they get re-assigned, or were they in a different enough kind of assignment that the stuff didn’t really affect them? AD: We did have one. He was sent over to a NATO position in Turkey. I don’t know exactly what he was doing over there. I was actually supposed to go with him, but that kind of got called off or something. I don’t know really what happened with that, but the both of us were supposed to go over to Turkey and do some stuff over there, but he was over there, I wanna say, for only a month. And that was the only impact that my little contingent had. The rest of us we were not impacted at all. (43:59) JS: Right. Okay. Now, as you’re moving through these different positions, are you getting promotions or extra training, or things like that at this time? Cause you come out as a sergeant eventually. So where does that fit into things? Do you get additional training or courses along the way, or new certifications, or what happens? AD: Yes. You are constantly in a state of training. All the time. Um, you have, your first few ranks as airmen as pretty much automatic with time in service. But you have on the job training. After your initial technical training, you do course work by book. So you’re doing career development courses is what they are called. (44:45) AD: And then you have different training opportunities depending on your job. You can be sent on temporary duty, TDY, to a base for training, you can get it in house, you’re constantly, it’s a constant state of training and learning. Which is very beneficial. So that part is alays going to be happening, but as far as the promotion part, um, the first few ranks you are just automatically promoted. But then once you start getting to the sergeant ranks, E5, E6, all of those, you have to start testing. And so I was tested for Staff Sergeant my first time and I actually made it then. So I was a Staff Sergeant very early on. Five years I think. So that was a benefit for me. And then my last rank, an E6, which was a technical sergeant, I earned when I was in the Air National Guard. (45:45) JS: Okay, so now after you finish the stint in Portugal, what did you do at that point? AD: That’s when I decided to leave the military. Um, I still had a contract with the military but they had, at this point, it’s called fore-shaping. They’re really trying to minimize the force, I don’t know if it’s due to budget reasons or what. It seemed silly at the time, that they were doing this because of the war that was going on. But you know, the Air Force doesn’t have a lot of �mobility units that have direct relation to the war. A lot of communications and pilots and things like that, so I was able to get out, on the fore-shaping, and I decided to leave. And then I joined the Air National Guard, after. (46:37) JS: What motivated the decision to leave? AD: Well, I was bouncing around and moving around so much, I was just ready to be in one place and have a consistent job. I was ready really for consistency in my life. How old was I? Gosh, I don’t even know. You know, I was in my mid-twenties and I was just really ready, you know to have some sort of solid life. And so I decided it was probably in my best interest to leave. Um, and so that was the choice that I made. And I decided to come back to my home state of Michigan and see what opportunities were out here for me. (47:21) JS: All right. Now what were, what were your responsibilities with the Air National Guard? You just had to be on call or available at that point, or what did you do? AD: One weekend a month. Pretty much. And there were some exercises that they had, periodically. I was pretty much in the Air National Guard from 2004 ‘til last spring. So it was pretty much one weekend a month. I had time off and had times that I would go out to the base and work sporadically, but nothing with a significant chunk of time. JS: And what base would you go to? AD: Um, it was Battle Creek Air National Guard Base. Um, they have, I think that’s the closest one. Next to Detroit. (48:09) JS: Now, so then what else were you doing? You get back home and then what do you decide to do at that point? AD: Well, the military gave me a lot of skills and I was just really looking for a professional career in the technical field. And so I spent six months looking for a job, and doing interviews. And I interviewed with Grand Valley and they offered me a position in June of 2005. JS: So you didn’t actually choose to go to college, or to take a degree, or… AD: At that time, no. I had done college work previously. I’d taken random classes here and there. But I hadn’t really decided that I wanted to go to college. I was thinking about it. I had the Montgomery GI Bill. I was thinking about it, but at that point in my life I still wasn’t ready. And I didn’t really know the value of a college education at that point, either. (49:11) �JS: And do you find that you’re sort of able to do the kinds of work that you want to do, just coming out with your military experience and credentials? Does that get you where you want to go at this point? AD: It certainly has been beneficial to getting my career now. I don’t necessarily, I mean, I like my job but I’m very much a geek at heart. I really like to tinker around with the computers and really do get involved with that type of work. And that’s not something that is necessarily the focus of my job here. Um, but I really enjoy what I do. JS: Okay. When you were looking for a job was it an issue that you didn’t have a college degree, for any of the places you were applying, or… (50:02) AD: I know that that was a huge thing. They really wanted a bachelor’s degree. I, at that time, again, I was thinking, oh well, I have that eight years experience of high technology, so I was just thinking that should be beneficial, but also I think a lot of it, I didn’t know the civilian world. The only thing I know is the military, and I still struggle with that today, so going out there and looking for a job, interviewing, resumes, any of that stuff, I had no idea at all. And, um, the bachelor’s degree as well, that was a lot of the requirements for the jobs I was applying for. You know, that is, that is something that is needed out there, so again, the mentality from my family, you go out and you get a job. You don’t need a degree, a college degree. And so I still didn’t understand the value of a college education at that point. (51:03) JS: Okay. Now if you’re looking at your own experience, what do you think your time in the service did for you? AD: Oh, it did so much. It really gave me maturity. It gave me a sense of purpose. It gave me, it just gave so much to me, discipline, a work ethic. I mean, it made me stronger person. There’s just so much. And it’s not just the technical portion or my job skills, that’s not really what I feel the military gave me, even though they gave that to me. I feel it’s the life portion is really what they gave to me. They gave me a life and something that I didn’t necessarily have before. So I really value that. JS: Do you think it really made you a more independent person or someone who could really function better on her own, or… (52:00) AD: Definitely. Definitely gave me a lot of independence, a lot of confidence that, it’s okay, I can be who I am, I can be independent, as a woman I can be smart, or I can do this, or, you know, they don’t have the mentality where you’re going to fail. And they’re always, you can do it. I mean, you have to. You don’t really have choice. So I think that’s been really beneficial. JS: All right. Anything you’d like to add to the record before we close this out? AD: No, I don’t think so. �JS: You did a good job, telling your story. So thank you for laying it out for me today. AD: Thank you. (52:36) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource DeRoo, Autumn (Interview transcript and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DeRoo, Autumn Description An account of the resource Autumn DeRoo made the choice to join the Air Force at the age of 17 early in her high school career. Going into a technological field, dealing mainly with computers, Deroo was able to work at Cheyenne Mountain with NORAD and the U.S. Base Command in the States, and was there at the time of the 9/11 attacks. She later served on a NATO base in Portugal, where she was when the Iraq War started in 2003. She eventually left the military as a Technical Sergeant and now works at Grand Valley State University. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force United States. National Guard Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-12-01 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DerooA Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fc35a8b8a98c59a22c3561df0acfba19.mp4 651f0e3e33ac37a0f009eb6d79f5169b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/40841bc2d9e0c426f4dc68e7323bb474.pdf 4d8a383ba81cee0c3472eede4554afec PDF Text Text Grand Valley State Veterans History Project Valeria Dellinger WWII Veteran United States Army (42:03) (00:23)Detroit Michigan  Valeria was born April 4 1925 at her grandmothers home in Detroit  Valeria’s father worked for Ford Motor Company and her mother was a stay at home mother  Their house was on the west side of Detroit by St. Lawrence Church. Valeria remembers playing jacks on her porch when she was young.  (3:40)Valeria remembers starting pre-school in Detroit and attending a Catholic school for 6th and 7th grade. It takes two years of Catholic school to be confirmed.  (5:20)Valeria returned to public school for 8th grade and on thru high school. She attended Chadsey High School on the west side of Detroit. Valeria was 5’9” in high school so she played basketball and did very well at it.  She attended her senior prom with a fellow she can not remember his name.  She did graduate high school.  (7:40)After graduation she worked for Michigan Bell training to be a telephone operator  Valeria was 18 years old when she graduated  Valeria was at the movies when Pearl Harbor was attacked. Her mom told her when she returned home. She had no idea where Pearl Harbor was.  Her cousin went into the Coast Guard and his ship was bombed and died.  Her younger cousin went into the Coast Guard also and he didn’t weigh enough and was told to eat bananas so he would weigh enough. He came home safe  (10:00)Valeria also had a female cousin who was a year older than her that also went into the war. She says that her entire family was set on Japan not winning this war.  Valeria went to the movies twice a week and they would give newsreels about the war during the movies. She remembers seeing television for the first time and thought it was great to have the movies in her own home.  Valeria originally tried to enlist into the Marine Corps but was told they had enough women enlisted already. She wanted to serve her country anyway possible so she enlisted into the Army.  To enlist, she had to go to the recruiting office and be sworn in. Her parents also had to sign for her to do this. She remembers while in basic training she was investigated because she was supposed to go to Los Alamos. (12:20)Basic Training-Des Moines Iowa  Valeria’s uniform needed to be altered because she was tall and thin. She said they were nice uniforms though.  During basic training, Valeria attended classes, drilled and marched. She said there was no rifle training.  The Army had prior knowledge of her experience with the telephone company. �   Valeria was in basic training for about six weeks. (13:50)Valeria was in basic training in the spring of 1945. She was interviewed after basic training on where she wanted to work at. She wanted to be a nurse’s aide but was told they had enough of them. She was told they need switchboard operators in the south west. They did not tell in it was in Los Alamos.  Valeria took a train along with civilians and service men and women to Los Alamos.  (15:35) Valeria was surprised to pull into Santa Fe, New Mexico. She wondered where she was with such a small city.  Before going to Los Alamos they had to go to Oak Ridge Tennessee for a physical and a psychological testing to be performed. One female was traveling with her from basic training to Tennessee and to New Mexico.  Valeria was asked by the psychologist what company of people she preferred, men or women? She answered women. He asked if she planned on getting married. She said yes and he let her go. Her friend was asked the same question and answered men to the first question and he told her he needed to see her back again.  (18:00)She met her husband in 1946 [1945?] during the Battle of the Bulge while he was serving in the war. He was from North Carolina but recently died on Christmas Day. He put in 20 years in the service. (19:00)New Mexico  Valeria spent time her with dances, the movies, and at the PX where you could purchase Coca Cola. She said they could be involved with sports but she decided not to. All of this was on the base.  Valeria did not have to do KP duty. They had Mexicans doing all of those duties.  You were not allowed to listen in on conversations or ask questions. She didn’t mind because she wasn’t curious.  Valeria has a book about what was expected of them.  (21:10)She went to a dance with a fellow and met another guy from his barracks. He asked her to the movies and ended marrying him. She says she was very shy at the time so she double dated with her friend and her boyfriend.  Valeria’s husband had previously served in Germany but re-enlisted and was sent to New Mexico.  (24:00)Valeria’s husband’s brother was a prisoner of war during the Battle of the Bulge and escaped. She remembers her husband saying that he hated the Germans but figured that was a result of having to fight them in the war. She did not ask her husband much about the war thinking he probably would not have wanted to talk about it anyways.  She says she served until November 1946 when she was discharged. She was engaged at the time.  Her husbands name was A.G. She called him Bill. (25:33)Home in Michigan  Once Valeria was discharged she came home. She obtained clothes for their wedding and headed back to New Mexico. (25:50)Los Alamos, New Mexico  May 1947 she was married at Los Alamos where he was still stationed. She received a job for the civil service as a switchboard operator.  Valeria’s husband was transferred to Albuquerque, New Mexico  Valeria had a daughter in 1948 and discontinued working at this point. �   Her husband was a security guard and MP at this point. In 1952 her son was born. (28:40)Valeria’s husband was asked to go to the Pacific for service. He did not tell her it was for Hydrogen bomb testing. At this point, Valeria returned home to Detroit. Her son was four months old at this time.  In 1953, Valeria said she saw it in the news that they had tested the hydrogen bomb. Her husband was there a year and she knew he would be coming home at that point.  (30:30)1953, Valeria’s husband requested to be transferred to North Carolina at Fort Bragg. Valeria moved to North Carolina till they divorced in 1956.  Valeria took her two children back to Detroit and did not remarry.  Valeria’s children are Linda and Alan.  Linda is a housewife with no children and Alan works with construction building new homes. He married a woman with two children but no biological children. There are two grandchildren Gabriel and Kylie.  (34:00) Valeria’s mother’s maiden name was Katherine Puskarz and her father was Joseph Wysick. Her grandmother’s name was Mary.  Valeria has two younger siblings, Raymond and Theresa. They called her Tessie.  (35:20)Valeria came to the Veterans home when she couldn’t take care of herself. She had an apartment in Farmington Hills. Her son lives in Rockford.  She said something happened to her mind that made things too complicated for her to handle alone. Her daughter found the facility on the internet.  (38:00)Her daughter in law comes and visits her once a week and does all her laundry for her and brings it to her.  Valeria enjoys being at the Veterans home. She says she is kept busy. She enjoys playing bingo. (40:50)Affects of the war on Valeria’s life  Valeria feels that the service made her more outgoing and met many women and men during her time in the service that became great friends. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dellinger, Valeria (Interview outline and video), 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dellinger, Valeria Description An account of the resource Valeria Dellinger was a veteran of WWII in the United States Army in 1945 and 1946. She served in Los Alamos, New Mexico as a switchboard operator for the military at the time of the development of the atomic bomb. She married her husband after she was discharged in 1946. He remained a MP for the military and transferred to the Pacific when they were testing the atomic bomb, while she stayed on at Los Alamos in the civil service for a while before moving to Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army. Women's Army Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-10-16 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DellingerV0226V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bfee8717107ab8137c7b89b197700106.mp4 79e43f77e701c5edf9da624825eec743 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/587dd550edd41e8c5474d86128db401f.pdf 735a9964bb63677d6f38a67f33bf0dd4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam War Frank Delfino 1:50:42 Introduction (00:22)        Frank was born in Boston, Massachusetts on January 21, 1949. His parents were Frank and Dora. He has a younger brother and a much younger sister. His father was a World War II veteran. Franks‟ father worked as a construction insulator, and his mother was a hairdresser and a home maker. Frank graduated from high school on June 8, 1966. After graduating, he flunked out of college twice. In those days, everyone was thinking of how they could get out of going to Vietnam. (02:21) On his 20th birthday in 1969, Frank was working at the United States Postal Service when he delivered his own draft notice. (04:50) He began to train himself by doing push ups and other things to get into better shape before he went to basic training. He left for basic training on February 25, 1969 during a blinding snow storm. Military Training (05:37)             When he had his physical, he remembers people having letters getting themselves out of service, while others were eliminated from military service due to previous sports injuries like bad knees, ankles, perforated eardrums and other things. Frank reported to Fort Jackson, South Carolina after a 26 hour train ride from Boston. When he arrived, he was sick with an upper respiratory illness and was admitted to the infirmary. (07:45) Because of his illness, he was in the infirmary for three weeks. Frank was with a great group of guys who worked together and did well during basic training. (09:45) Looking back on basic, Frank and his group did not have any disciplinary issues. (11:39) The better they did allowed them to get liberties that were available such as four hours each Sunday. One drill sergeant was the army boxing champion and offered to teach boxing lessons for anyone who wanted them. Frank took him up on it and learned from him. Basic training lasted 8 weeks. After that, they stayed at Fort Jackson for AIT (Advanced Infantry Training). While there, they learned more about the army and weaponry. (13:37) Most of his instructors in both basic training and AIT had spent time in Vietnam. Much of the training was geared for Vietnam. They would be woken up in the middle of the night to perform marches and other things to get them used to being on the move at short notice. �                 In AIT they did lots of obstacle courses, rappelling and other physical conditioning that would prepare them for Vietnam. (15:54) The training not only built physical confidence for Frank but also mental confidence. He realized that he could be a leader, which led him to become a squad leader. While walking through the woods, they would have pop-up targets that they would shoot at with blank ammunition. During patrols they would have to cross rivers and streams up to their necks and learn to hold their rifles and other gear above their heads. (17:45) AIT lasted for another 8 weeks. After that, Frank signed up for mortar school. They asked for volunteers to go to mortar school and then be sent to Korea. Mortar training was also done at Fort Jackson, which lasted three weeks. Frank and his unit did so well; they broke every training record they could at mortar school. On May 10, 1969, the 101st lost a large amount of NCO‟s at Hamburger Hill. That battle changed the plan to send Frank to Korea. They were instead sent to the NCO training program at Fort Benning, Georgia and then on to Vietnam. (20:43) Frank and another man went in and spoke to their captain to protest the decision. They all ended up at Fort Benning anyway. After thirty days of leave, Frank reported to Fort Benning on July 20, 1969, the same day that Neil Armstrong landed on the moon. (22:43) They were treated very well because they were soon to be non-commissioned officers and they did not start training until the next day because the instructors wanted them to all see the moon landing. There was no yelling or screaming while at NCO school; it was more like an Ivy League college. NCO school was enjoyable and Frank learned a lot while there. Most of the exercises were done in the field, and they had classroom instruction with movies. (25:45) NCO school lasted twelve weeks; Frank graduated in the upper third of his class on October 10, 1969. His dad and brother came down for his graduation and then he was given about a 12-14 day leave. From there, he was assigned to be the training NCO at Fort Riley in charge of physical training. (27:19) He was in charge of getting the officers up at 5:30 am and making them run and do other exercises. He was told by the colonel that he was in charge of physical conditioning of the men. Frank came up with a training plan that was approved by the commanding officer and he told Frank that if any of the officers had a problem with him running the show as a buck sergeant to let him know immediately. Frank always had the men fall out wearing baseball caps, white shirts, and bloused boots, but no rank. Frank stayed there until January, when he was given a month leave at home before he was sent to Vietnam. (30:10) Vietnam (30:20)  Frank went from Logan Airport in Boston to [McChord Air Force Base] in New Jersey straight to Guam and then on to Bien Hoa. He landed at 5:30 am February 8, 1970. �                  When he got off the plane and went into the receiving building, he saw five or six hundred men waiting to go home. One of them ran up to Frank, held him up, and yelled “Look! Fresh meat for Charlie!”. Frank was scared when he got to Vietnam because he had been watching the whole thing unfold since 1963 on television and he knew what was going on there. (32:47) They were processed in and stayed in a transitional barracks for two to three nights. They took incoming mortars that night and he was put in charge of a section of the wall on guard duty. The smell of the country was like body odor, fish, and extreme humidity. He also was in charge of KP duty and he had to pull graves registration, which was going through the bodies of the dead and checking them in. (34:47) Frank stayed in the transitional area for three days until they were all brought out to a staging area, some thirty guys in total. A sergeant came over and told them they were going to the 101st. (38:00) They were flown to Phu Bai and waited for four to five hours before someone came down from Camp Evans to pick them up. They were sent north in a convoy with several other vehicles that were all guarded. Since Frank worked at the Post Office, he was sent to the 101st mailroom and stayed there for two weeks. After that, he was given a combat assignment in the jungle near Firebase Ripcord. (40:40) When he landed in the jungle, his squad was waiting for him. Frank was considered an FNG „Fucking New Guy‟, and he could tell by the look on the faces of his men that they were worried. Right away, he told the men that he wanted to get out of there alive, and he wanted them to leave with him. Frank told his radio operator to babysit him for the first month and help him along. (42:25) Frank pitched in and helped with tasks like hauling the machine guns and other things because he wanted to establish unit cohesiveness. He was petrified for the entire time he was out in the bush and he did not get three hours of sleep for three and a half months. (44:45) It was the tail end of monsoon season, so it was wet and humid. Frank was so scared out there, but he never showed it because he had to lead his men. His mission was to search and destroy, but they did not get hit very often. They did get a lot of mortar incomings and they found booby traps. They worked along Highway One to the A Shau Valley. He would go out for a week and then come back in. (47:15) Franks experience in the field was that they never knew what was going to happen the next hour. Frank was with Charlie Company, 1/506th, 101st Airborne. He operated between Camp Evans and Ripcord. They worked the jungle, trails and some of the rivers. They would go out and set up camp, then see what they could drum up. They always moved in squad size and they had four squads. (49:36) For the first month, Frank lost a lot of weight and had a tough time acclimatizing to the climate of Vietnam. After seeing what the NVA and Viet Cong did to their own people for helping the Americans, Frank began to lose the fear of being hit and just wanted to get them back. �        They called Frank “Sergeant Kaboom” because he loved to call in airstrikes and then sit back and watch them come in. He was also great with a map; he always knew where he was and where everyone else was too. (51:12) Frank felt that once he got there, things were starting to wind down. From February to mid May, it was relatively quiet and he thought he had the enemy on the run. (53:30) He had a Kit Carson Scout with them that was a former Viet Cong and about 16 years old. Frank‟s mother sent panty hose, make-up, hair spray and many other things for the boy‟s family. After that, he was like Frank‟s body guard, he loved him. They also had a dog unit attached to them for a little while. Frank had three MOS‟s, Eleven Bravo (basic infantry), Eleven Charlie (mortar man) and Eleven Foxtrot (intelligence specialist). Because of his intelligence background, he was sent to Camp Evans to run the base defense at the Headquarters TOC. (56:00) He did not want the job, but he was told that he was the only man in the company with that MOS. When he left his men, Frank told them he would send them something back out. Frank knew what they needed so he sent socks, foot powder, food, beer, ice, boots, undershirts, shorts, shoelaces, candy, writing paper, and a few Playboy magazines. (57:44) For his new job, he coordinated base security and flights going in and out of the base. He would usually start around 4 or 5 in the afternoon, and work until 6 or 7 am. During that time, they moved personnel and material to and from the firebases. He also organized the wounded being sent back to the rear. (59:25) He did all this without any form of technology besides a rotary phone and two crank radios. They used shackle codes that changed every twenty four hours. These were passwords that everybody needed to know. Frank‟s call sign on the radio was „Boston Blackie‟. (1:01:05) Ripcord (1:01:35)          Frank knew that something was going on up at Firebase Ripcord, but he was so busy running the TOC (Tactical Operations Center) that he did not pay much attention to it. Because he did such a good job, he was more or less left alone by his superiors. (1:03:38) Frank worked with a man named Steve McCarthy, who was a good friend and helped him get through the experience. The daily routine for them was when they first got into the office they would check the logs from the night before for any activity, enemy contacts, reinforcement requirements and anything else that needed to be done. (1:05:24) Because he ran the TOC, he was able to get to know everybody in several different units and could acquire things if they were needed. He knew where everything was and how to get anything that someone asked him for. Once he got out of the field, it was much like a normal job. (1:07:32) Towards the end of Ripcord, it began to get his attention. Racial tensions came around June 1970 and a rumor came through that said the black soldiers were going to try to take the TOC. He went in to the colonel and told him immediately. He then went down to the armory and got an M-60 [machine gun] and he bolted it to his desk. Frank also contacted every unit and sent out a directive that said �     that anyone that went down to the TOC and tried to compromise base security would be shot on sight. (1:09:29) One day, he took a flight up to Ripcord around June and asked the men what they needed. He arranged to get the men what they requested. Frank only went up there twice, once for the meet and greet and to see what they needed, and then again to survey the area. (1:11:35) On July 4th, things really escalated and they really started sending a lot of air strikes and support up to Ripcord. On July 22 and 23, they began to organize a massive amount of helicopters to go up there and remove the equipment, guns and evacuate personnel. (1:14:23) Frank will never forget seeing the men that came off the helicopters when they returned from Ripcord. He sent everyone to the TOC to help get the wounded off the choppers and to the appropriate areas. The men looked like they had just looked into the face of the devil himself. (1:16:50) Life on Camp Evans (1:18:32)           Life on the base was very different than life in the field. He showered twice a week with hot water, which was great. There were no cuts, scrapes, leeches, pongee sticks and they had a mess hall. (1:19:28) Frank had a freezer in the TOC and he had his father send them popsicles from home. They would then use these as a medium for trade. He could get steak, lobster, shrimp and many other things for them. Being back in the rear, they also had to deal with people that wanted to stay out of the field. They also had „dope hooch‟ which was where people went to smoke dope. (1:21:42) Every night, Frank would go out along the line and check each bunker. He would find men sleeping while on duty or smoking dope and he gave each one an Article 15 on the spot. He told them that if he caught them again they would be sent straight to the brig. They also had a Black Power movement on the base. There were nine black soldiers that refused to go out in the field. They were referred to as the “Evans Nine”. The men were locked up until they were able to be sent to Long Binh Jail. (1:23:13) Heroin was two dollars a bag in the villages. Frank never did any drugs of any kind while in Vietnam. Camp Evans also had a lot of marijuana. (1:25:55) Morale was pretty good on base while Frank was there. They would get incoming mortars from time to time, but otherwise, since it was a big base the enemy couldn‟t do much to them. Once they were showing a movie on a Friday night, when they had incomings come in and they all just took off. (1:27:18) They had Vietnamese nationals that worked on the base, but Frank never trusted them and once they caught a worker stepping off the distance between the TOC and the other buildings. Frank caught the guy and had him arrested. Another worker that worked in the base laundry was a Viet Cong sympathizer. (1:29:27) According to Frank, the real heroes of the Vietnam War were the nurses and the scout dogs. �       Frank was in Vietnam for 10 months and 20 days. After Ripcord things really quieted down and they had a long lull. When he picked up the mail one day, he learned that he was going home on December 21st, which was forty days from then. He didn‟t tell anyone because he wanted to surprise his family. To pass the time he would commandeer a pilot and take helicopter rides around the area.(1:31:47) A friend of Frank‟s from Boston had an uncle that was a two star general. One day he called and told Frank that he was going to send a command helicopter down to pick him up and bring him to a change of command ceremony in Da Nang. Frank attended the ceremony with General Westmoreland, General Abrams, the Vice President of Vietnam and the American Ambassador. When he got there, a lieutenant was the door man and he told Frank to beat it before he had him arrested. Frank told the lieutenant to find General Collins, which he did and they had a great party. (1:36:56) Vietnam wasn‟t all bad for Frank, it was peaks and valleys. They had a Halloween party and a horrible excuse for a Christmas tree. Frank did lose four friends while in Vietnam. (1:38:27) Frank had a chance to go to Sydney, Australia on R&R, but instead he went home early. Back in the States (1:40:59)       Frank left Fort Lewis, Washington on December 24. He arrived home on Christmas morning at 9:30 am. He snuck in the house and he could hear his parents talking in the other room. He walked in and surprised them. Frank was so skinny when he got home, he weighed 118 lbs. (1:42:49) Once he was home, Frank began working at the Post Office again two weeks after getting back from Vietnam. He was put on the night shift, and because of the amount of stress he had been under, he did not get a full nights sleep until June. (1:45:08) At work, he started to exhibit anger. One of his supervisors at work was a Marine who served in Korea. He had it out for him and one day it came to fighting. A year later he quit the Postal Service and on April 1972 he began working as an insulator like his father. (1:47:15) Frank also began taking a few college courses which he was successful at. Looking back, Frank wishes he would have finished his education sooner. He stayed in the insulation business and retired in 2005. He has lived and worked in 41 states and has been a boss, general foreman and a superintendent. His service in Vietnam enabled him to look at any task with confidence and perform any task well. He graduated from the University of Massachusetts in Boston in 1989 with a degree in marketing and management. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Delfino, Frank (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Delfino, Frank Description An account of the resource Frank was born in Boston, Massachusetts on January 21, 1949. He graduated from high school in June 1966 and had two unsuccessful attempts at college. He worked for the United States Postal Service and received his draft notice on his twentieth birthday 1969. Frank was drafted into the United States Army. After basic training and AIT, he attended mortar school and the NCO training school in Fort Benning, Georgia. He served for several months as the training NCO at Fort Riley before being sent to Vietnam. Frank was attached to Charlie Company, 1/506th, 101st Airborne and was stationed out of Camp Evans. Frank was involved with Firebase Ripcord and later operated the TOC at Camp Evans and was in charge of base defenses. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-10-10 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DelfinoF1547V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/083702f9e400cbb7658068ad190113ec.mp4 1a383ce965436c627b86e1fe1bc71bc2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2c0062f586254d5a2566250abc7681d2.pdf faf6e0aa0bd5e1d1ebf56e0a47aa4ee5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Merle Delagrange Vietnam War 1 hour 17 minutes 2 seconds (00:00:17) Early Life Pt. 1 -Born in Grantwood, Indiana on January 23, 1950 -At the age of ten they moved to Ohio -He went to high school at Fairview High School in Sherwood, Ohio -Didn’t graduate -Met his wife in 1968 (00:01:18) Getting Drafted -Received a notice for an Army physical -Got married to his wife on March 8, 1969 -Two months later on May 6, 1969 he had to report for basic training -Drafted out of Cleveland, Ohio and sent to Fort Campbell, Kentucky (00:02:07) Early Life Pt. 2 -Father was a farmer until 1962 -After 1962 his father drove concrete trucks for a living -Mother was a stay at home mom -He had eight siblings -Three brothers and five sisters (00:02:45) Awareness of Vietnam War -Older friends were being drafted and sent to Vietnam -Remembers hearing about a major battle on the radio -Had a feeling that he’d eventually have to go fight in Vietnam (00:03:30) Basic Training -Sent to Fort Campbell, Kentucky for basic training -At first didn’t care for basic training -Remembers that there was a competitive nature to everything they did -All drill instructors were Vietnam veterans except for one -They all worked to instill in the recruits lessons they had learned from Vietnam -Focused on hand to hand combat and other infantry training -Qualified with the M60 machine gun and the M14 rifle -Basic training lasted nine weeks (00:07:27) Advanced Infantry Training -Received his orders to report for advanced infantry training (AIT) at the end of basic training -For two weeks before AIT he spent that time in the hospital due to a broken shin -Saw critically wounded Vietnam veterans first hand -Graduated from basic and went to Fort Polk, Louisiana for AIT -AIT lasted nine weeks -Completely different environment than basic training -More relaxed in some aspects, given the weekends off -All while he was there he knew he’d have to go to Vietnam �-Remembers Fort Polk having a mock up Vietnamese village for training exercises -On the last day they were told they would be kept stateside (00:12:50) Fort Carson -After AIT he was sent to Fort Carson, Colorado -He was allowed to live off base with his wife -Stationed there for five months -While there he was assigned to th 5th Mechanized Infantry Division -Went on maneuvers in the Rocky Mountains -Worked with Vietnam veterans -They told him that the war was coming to an end -During the time there his wife got pregnant -After five months he received his orders for deployment to Vietnam (00:15:21) Deployment to Vietnam -After receiving orders for Vietnam he was given thirty days of leave -Shipped out of the United States from the Oakland Replacement Depot, California -Arrived in Bien Hoa Air Base on April 28, 1970 -Remembers the first thing he noticed was that Vietnam was hot and it stunk -Taken by bus from the airport to the Army base in Bien Hoa -Told that he and the other new soldiers would guard the bunkers -During that time he was able to write to his wife, but she couldn’t write back -He didn’t have an actual military address yet (00:18:14) Camp Evans Pt. 1 -On May 1, 1970 the invasion of Cambodia began -Some friends of his were sent to aid in the fighting -On the same day he received his assignment orders -He had been advised to try and stay out of the 101st Airborne Division -His assignment was to Delta Company, 1st of the 506th of the 101st Airborne -Arrived at Camp Evans on May 7, 1970 -Received introductory Vietnam training -Booby traps, surviving in the field, information about the Vietnamese, animals (00:20:17) In the Field Pt. 1 -On May 17, 1970 he was flown to Firebase Rakkasan -Being around Vietnam veterans at Fort Carson had helped prepare him a little bit better -Veterans in the field still avoided the new guys though -Safety hazard being around inexperienced soldiers -Made contact the next day in the field -Called in an airstrike -The bombs missed the enemy and almost hit them instead -He and his unit moved into the NVAs old position on the ridge and set up camp there -Had 155mm howitzers covering their position -That night started calling in artillery fire against the NVA near them -Remembers their position taking a direct hit -Quick thinking saved his life -Their unit lost a soldier that night due to friendly fire (00:28:23) Camp Evans Pt. 2 -He was wounded during the friendly fire incident and was sent back to Camp Evans �-In the field hospital he saw the severe wounds that other soldiers had sustained during the fight -He was eventually transferred to another hospital at Phu Bai -Stayed there temporarily -After he was released from the hospital he spent a tense night in Phu Bai’s training area -The next day he caught a convoy that took him back to Camp Evans -Once there he met with his sergeant and got placed on latrine duty for the time being (00:33:51) In the Field Pt. 2 -Three days after returning to Camp Evans he returned to the field and joined 3rd Platoon -Conducted a large amount of ambush operations -Moved through the jungle towards Firebase Kathryn -Spent a few days there in June 1970 -Remembers a friend from Alpha Company getting killed -Had known him and been friends with him since AIT -On June 20th another friend was killed by a booby trap -A defecting Viet Cong soldier had placed the booby trap when he “surrendered” -The unit turned him over to the South Vietnamese Army -Remembers finding a caved in U.S. bunker position -Soldiers inside had been killed when the structure collapsed -Sappers were getting more skilled at infiltrating their positions -On July 4, 1970 they were called up for a stand down -Returned to Camp Evans and enjoyed Independence Day there (00:41:20) The Battle of Firebase Ripcord-Landing -He and his unit were called up to go and support the forces at Firebase Ripcord -On July 19 they were flown up to Triple Hill near Firebase Ripcord -On the morning of July 20 they were flown from Triple Hill to Hill 805 -Dropped into a “hot” (under fire) landing zone -Had to immediately establish a defensive position -Operated as an assistant to the M60 machine gunner until the machine gun broke (00:46:14) The Battle of Firebase Ripcord-Extraction and Rescue by Delta Company -On July 21 at daybreak the NVA started to bombard their position with mortar fire -Later in the day there was a brief lull in the fire for them to change positions -The Vietnamese were able to follow and harass them as they moved -After a while they were able to move to a landing zone for extraction -As the medevac helicopters came in the Vietnamese were shooting at those as well -Delta Company 2nd of 506th came in to extract them (D/1/506) -Escorted by D/2/506 to an adjacent area for extraction -By the time they finally touched down at Camp Evans they had suffered severe losses -He was grateful to be among the survivors -Had another stand down at Camp Evans starting on July 21 when they returned from Ripcord -Able to visit their company’s wounded at a rear hospital (00:55:45) In the Field Pt. 3 -Had to lead his platoon through the Lowlands after losses suffered at Firebase Ripcord -Led his unit back to Firebase Kathryn -By October 1970 he had been promoted to sergeant -It took three weeks for his company to get rebuilt after Ripcord -Replacements didn’t know how to adjust to being in a unit that went through Ripcord �-Remembers being at Camp Evans when Firebase Ripcord was evacuated and demolished -Spent the rest of his tour at either Firebase Kathryn or Firebase Rakkasan -When the monsoon season began the unit went to Firebase Rakkasan -After the battle at Ripcord contact with Vietnamese combatants dropped significantly -Booby traps were still a prominent threat -Knew that the Viet Cong were still out in the jungle watching every move they made -Went to Camp Evans for a minor stand down before going on R&R (01:04:35) R&R -Towards the end of his tour he went on R&R -Son had been born on September 26, 1970 -His wife and three month old son were able to meet him in Hawaii -Remembers that leaving them to return to Vietnam was extremely difficult -Spent last part of December 1970 and early part of January 1971 in Hawaii on R&R -Remembers his wife being concerned because he acted disappointed upon holding his son -Later explained that it was foreign being around something innocent and alive (01:08:12) End of Deployment and Coming Home -Last part of his tour was fairly uneventful -Basic patrolling -Very little enemy contact -Left Vietnam out of Cam Ranh Bay -Arrived in Fort Lewis, Washington -Got discharged out of the Army there -Given a bonus at the end of his service due to making the rank of sergeant -Got home on March 28, 1971 -Met his wife, son, and mom at the Fort Wayne, Indiana airport -Never faced harassment when he came home -Knew friends that were abused by protestors -Flew into both airports at Fort Lewis and Fort Wayne without incident -Got his old job back as a house painter (01:12:54) National Guard -In 1976 he joined the Army National Guard on a whim -Signed up for a year -Wound up serving with other Vietnam veterans -Spent eighteen years in the National Guard -Retired as a sergeant first class -Spent twenty years all toll in the Army -He had been in the 193rd Infantry Company -Comprised mostly of combat veterans -Later on became a mess sergeant -Easier than being in the field after he broke his back in a car accident � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Delagrange, Merle (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Delagrange, Merle Description An account of the resource Merle Delagrange was born in 1950 in Grantwood, Indiana. He was newly married and living in Ohio when he was drafted in 1969. After training at Fort Campbell, Kentucky and Fort Polk, Louisiana, he was stationed at Fort Carson, Colorado until he received his orders to be deployed to Vietnam. He arrived in Vietnam on April 28, 1970 and was assigned to D Company, 1st Battalion. 506th Regiment, 101st Airborne Division stationed at Camp Evans. He was wounded in a friendly fire incident in early May, but soon rejoined the unit and was with them when they were heavily engaged Firebase Ripcord in July and had to be rescued by another unit. Throughout the rest of his tour he led a platoon on patrols until he left Vietnam and returned home on March 28, 1971. He joined the National Guard in 1976 where he stayed with the 193rd Infantry Company for eighteen years and retired as a sergeant first class. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McGregor, Michael (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army United States. National Guard Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-10-11 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DelagrangeM1532V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7c515748e2ca49673d2535e3ac0b9b0f.mp4 570444fb825631d34d3a07be9a103138 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2f107b4c4bc82a25581a8f065487905c.pdf 1e9445a8ab64a5ff10ded8377811a6e7 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project George DeBaar (1:22:08) (00:25) Background • (00:25) He was born in Grand Rapids, MI, on the Southeast side of town. He was born on Ewing Street, near the intersection of Hall and Kalamazoo. He was born on April 13, 1923. • (00:51) His father was a “huckster.” He sold fruits and vegetables out of a horsedrawn carriage, and later a truck. He had to add more services to the route later because of competition with grocery stores. He was also a garbageman. He and his wife had bought a house in 1927, and the Depression hit in 1929. They managed to keep the house. • (02:42) George’s mother was seven months pregnant when she married his father. Both of his parents had been previously married and lost their previous spouses to the 1918 flu epidemic. George had two half brothers, one from each parent. • (03:34) He did not finish high school before the war. He dropped out after tenth grade, probably due to boredom although he does not recall the exact reasons. He finished high school after coming back from the service. • (03:59) He worked at the Michigan Bakery on the corner of Division of Wealthy. He helped load trucks. He did not follow international events at the time. • (04:40) He heard about Pearly Harbor on the radio. Some of his friends enlisted after the attacks. His father advised him to not enlist early, but to follow through if he was drafted. • (05:23) He was drafted in January of 1943. He was inducted into the Army on January 15th, 1943. He signed up at Fort Custer in Battle Creek. (05:55) Training/Enlistment • (05:55) “Everything was a secret” in the Army. They were never informed of their assignments until the last possible time. They got on a train without knowing where they were sent. They realized lady they were being sent to Fort Brady in Sault St. Marie. They used a ferry to cross the Mackinac Straits as there was not a bridge at that time. • (07:08) Fort Brady was cold and very snowy. They had “real winters” at Fort Brady. He did basic training at Fort Brady, and was assigned to guard duty at the Soo Locks and the Canadian Locks. • (07:48) The main focus of basic training was getting into military physical condition and learning military discipline. His stomach muscles ached from the daily calisthenic routines. They exercised in a gym until the weather improved. • (09:00) The drill sergeants were stern, but fair and respected. • (09:48) He does not recall having disciplinary issues, but he thinks he probably had some minor issues. Most of the men adjusted to the military well, but there were some men who had issues adjusting. Just before they were to ship out overseas, some of the men held up a movie theater. �• • • (11:38) At Fort Brady, they joined a pre-established unit. It was originally the 131st Infantry, and was later re-named as the 156th Infantry. He was in Company F. (12:10) They left Fort Brady in August and were sent to New York. On September 5th, 1943 they shipped out. (12:40) The Soo Locks were a “showcase” and they had to keep their arms maintained especially well. They were to set “an example to the rest of the world.” They were established as guards, and had a different assignment each time. They were not Military Police, they simply served as guards. (13:43) Active Duty • (13:43) They were sent out the U.S.S. Alexander, which was a troop transport ship. They were sent out in one of the largest convoys of the war. Some of the men with a cynical sense of humor remarked “we’ll probably never see that again,” when they passed the Statue of Liberty. They didn’t, because they came back by a different route. • (14:14) They hit a bad storm and the ship sprang a leak. They lost three men overboard during the storm. • (15:35) They had funerals for the three men lost at sea. The waves were very severe, and sometimes the other ships would temporarily disappear underneath them. • (16:03) Their ship stopped at Halifax, Nova Scotia to be dry-docked. They were put on the Queen Elizabeth, which already has a sizable load of Canadian soldiers. • (16:47) The Queen Elizabeth did not have a convoy, although it did initially have a fighter plane escort. The ship changed direction every seven minutes as well. • (17:25) They landed in Glasgow, Scotland. They were sent by a train to Elfricone, England, near the southern coast. • (18:00) They were trained for D-Day and trained in LCVPs, a type of small landing craft. He was issued an M-1 rifle, and was in a rifle platoon. • (19:49) They had several accidents in training. They were fired at with live ammunition, while sheltered by a bunker. They were shot at with enemy ammunition and friendly ammunition to learn the differences in sounds. During this type of drill, a machine gunner accidentally shot thirteen men and killed five of them. • (20:46) Most men were inexperienced in that they had not seen combat. However many of them were older recruits and had had more training. • (21:22) His unit was recommended to do guard duty in London because of their service as guards at the Soo Locks. (22:32) Guard Duty in London • (22:32) The CIA checked on them frequently. The blinds and curtains in all the windows were shut at headquarters. Sometimes the CIA agents would stage break-ins to see how quickly they were resolved. • (24:05) He learned to recognize many of the top-tier men. He remembers liking General Bradley. The guards had to check the identification of every man who �• • • • entered the central room, even when they had just left for a drink of water or to visit the restroom. Some of the officers under General Bradley resented being stopped for their identification, despite the fact that it was standard procedure. General Bradley simply followed procedure without comment. (24:56) He does not recall other officers specifically. He remembers it being a mix of American and British officers. (25:40) When he was off duty he would have a good time in London. (26:18) London was a temporary assignment, only until regular Military Police came to the area. It took a long time for the MPs to arrive. (26:41) Next they were assigned to Eisenhower’s headquarters. (27:45) Duty in France • (27:15) They guarded a headquarters building in Reimss, France for a while. • (27:55) Later they were sent to St. Germain with Eisenhower. They also guarded his home in Reims. His company was dispersed to serve as guards in a variety of places, usually guarded different locations of importance to Eisenhower. • (28:40) He went to London initially around the end of 1943, he went with Eisenhower around 1944. • (30:44) London had evidence of bombing from the Luftwaffe. They were still under attack while he was there. They went into bomb shelters frequently, not so much because of the direct blasts from the bombs because of the shrapnel. Women operated the anti-aircraft guns. • (31:47) Aircraft made large explosions when they crashed or lost parts. The buzz bombs were “terrible” as well. He was nearly hit by a buzz bomb after breakfast one Sunday morning. In the field they used trenches to avoid the bombs. • (34:04) Once there was an air raid while he was on duty. A large bomb was dropped somewhat close to him, but it was a dud. The Germans used phosphorous bombs, to make them burn better. There was an arms race in terms of the explosives. He was never close enough to a bomb to feel the shockwaves, but he did hear them very frequently. He did not see Eisenhower very often in London. • (37:51) They had come to France about twenty days after D-Day. They went to a French town called Bayeux, which was demolished. • (39:06) They went over beaches, and past hedgerows. The first night they used pup tents. The Luftwaffe came over them in the night at around 11:00 pm, and they felt vibrations. It turned out that they were very near an anti-aircraft cannon. During that night, he wondered what was going on. • (41:01) They kept going on through France, and stayed in tents mostly. • (42:20) They served as guard behind the lines, but sometimes not as far behind as he would have liked. They were never under artillery fire, but they were frequently under aerial bombardment. Some other men in his company were probably under artillery fire. • (43:00) They saw civilians in France. They did not communicate with them much, because of the language barrier. The outdoor public urinals in France shocked him. They were often greeted by French families. �• • • • • • • • • • • • (43:41) He remembers one of the men got eggs sometimes by trading them for cigarettes. The fresh eggs were a luxury, and they usually had powdered eggs. Sometimes he had better food when he was at Eisenhower’s house. (44:57) They did sometimes spend time with the English. (45:06) After Reims, he spend some time in St. Germain. He was there during the Battle of the Bulge. They met with the CIA each day for thirty three days. The CIA had used motorcycles. (46:56) Next he moved to Versailles, and he was again with Eisenhower. He had main gate duty, he thinks it might have been because tall. They usually knew who was coming to visit Eisenhower ahead of time. (47:57) He saw Patton once, but that was later. His company used two jeeps to guard Eisenhower. Motorcycles had been used previously, but they proved unable to endure the cobblestone roads. The men using the motorcycles were also hurt. (49:03) He was selected to drive a jeep; it was his favorite assignment. (49:49) He drove the jeep without the top on, and frequently drove it as fast as it could go. It went only about seventy miles an hour or so, and at one point he had trouble keeping up. He usually took orders from Eisenhower’s driver. (55:55) He was a PFC at this point. His supervisor commented that he should have a higher rank and offered to get it taken care of, but he declined. The reason he was only a PFC was because he had had some personality conflicts with a superior officer earlier on. (52:39) He had come up for Corporal in the Infantry, but he turned the position down. The commissioned officers and the non-commissioned officers had some conflicts, and he decided to side with his friends. His superior officer resented his rejection of the post, and gave him the duties of a Corporal without the pay or rank increases. (54:39) He went in to Paris a few times, the public urinals on the street shocked him. (55:13) The French weren’t usually after their money, but the English sometimes were. (55:54) He went under the Eiffel Tower, and passed the Arc de Triomphe and went to Versailles. He visited where the WWI Treaty had been signed. (57:40) Service in Germany/Post-War • (58:31) He went to Germany after the war ended. He was in Reims when the war ended. • (58:53) Eisenhower had his own cow in Germany. Sometimes he and Eisenhower exchanged pleasantries, but sometimes Eisenhower seemed weighed down by his responsibilities and did not speak much. • (01:00:06) Sometimes when Eisenhower was away, his men would drink too much and otherwise take advantage of the situation. • (01:00:43) He hated powdered eggs, and while with Eisenhower he sometimes got real eggs and real milk. • (01:01:37) He usually got the better food by being friends with the cooks. Some of the cooks were black. He sometimes saw black soldiers, but not often. �• • • (01:03:31) He did not see German representatives up close, but he sometimes saw them in cars. Eisenhower took over a train formerly used by the Germans. He would accompany Eisenhower on train trips occasionally. (01:05:51) Eisenhower had a Headquarters in Frankfurt, and a home elsewhere in Germany. The GI’s sometimes evicted Germans from their homes. Eisenhower had a very nice house in Germany. He also had several Cadillacs, one was armored. (01:06:42) There was to be no fraternizing with the Germans, even after the war was officially over. However, there was fraternizing, and frequently. This was “on the sly.” (01:09:04) Post-War • (01:09:04) He had Thanksgiving on the boat back home. The movements of the sea moved their food around on the tables. • (01:09:35) The Queen Elizabeth was the best ship. While on the Queen Elizabeth it was incredibly crowded. He did not have bad weather on the Queen Elizabeth. They took the Queen Elizabeth to Europe. • (01:10:54) Eisenhower took over the IG-Farben building in Frankfurt, which was at that time the largest office building in the world. • (01:11:48) He saw many displaced persons. They were transported about by train. He felt sorry for them, but he didn’t interact with them much. • (01:13:57) “The American people don’t know what war is, it is hell.” • (01:14:13) While in Germany they would rope off an area and search the homes. They would search for weapons primarily. They would first ask if they had any weapons, and if they were told truthfully if they had some, they simply confiscated them. There were heavier consequences if they were lied to. They also asked for any drawers or cupboards to be unlocked, if the Germans would not unlock them, then they would smash them. They didn’t usually find much. • (01:16:49) They were somewhat worried about a Nazi resurgence. While in England they had been taught for hours and hours “kill or be killed.” They had taught hand to hand combat. • (01:18:23) They landed in Boston, and he went to Chicago. He took a train to Kalamazoo, and then took a taxi to Grand Rapids with some friends. They split the cab fair. • (01:19:14) He was discharged December 8th, 1945. He arrived home on about the tenth. One of his friends came to his house, and then he and his family dropped his friend off at his church. • (01:20:09) He still sees his friend, Bill, for lunch occasionally. • (01:20:39) After the Army, he lived off his stipend for awhile. He did not go to school on the GI Bill. He worked at Keeler for thirty-nine years. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource DeBaar, George (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DeBaar, George Description An account of the resource George DeBaar was born in Grand Rapids, MI, and was drafted in January of 1943. He served at Fort Brady at Sault St. Marie, as part of the 131st Infantry (later the 156th). His unit served as guards at the base, and near the Soo Locks and the Canadian Locks. Because of this experience as serving as guards, his company was selected to serve as Eisenhower's guards. He served in London, during which time the CIA subjected them to mock break-ins to ensure security. He also served as Eisenhower's personal guard in Reims. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-08-14 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DeBaarG Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/997fe04ba46848accfba0ca7b8f015ad.mp4 3be1604de6b4e5e1f3d76e38b82c7f49 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dd8630a9a5e81a0bca48e1efd447b54f.pdf f261cc08c069b5d07525fff6e3c67ff2 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project William Deary (1:38:17) Background Information (00:07)            Born in Pontiac, Michigan on July 31st 1925 (00:09) William grew up in Pontiac. (00:20) His father was trained as a painter in England. He was a painter contractor until the Depression. At that time he began working in bakery car. (00:26) William graduated high school in December of 1943. (1:18) He learned of Pearl Harbor on the radio. (1:38) He was paying attention to the conflicts occurring in Europe during the early 1940s. (2:00) William thought that the war would be over before he would be old enough to be drafted. (2:30) William volunteered to be drafted into the U.S. (Army) Air Force in the spring of 1943. (2:56) While waiting for his request and tests to clear with the Air Force, William worked in a GM factory. (3:50) William entered the Air Force on December 15th 1943. (4:15) For basic, William was sent to Fort Sheridan, Illinois then Miami Beach, Florida. (4:26) Basic Training (4:45)       At cadet training in Miami Beach, William was assigned to be a gunner. (5:00) At Miami Beach the men were tested on coordination, and physiological wellness. (5:49) There was emphasis on physical training and discipline. (6:25) The men lived in a hotel during training. The beds were replaced with cots and the elevators were disabled so the men had to use the stairs. (7:00) There was a mess hall constructed for the soldiers in Miami Beach. (8:08) Miami Beach was not under blackout while William was there. (8:39) Gunnery School (9:00)          William was then sent to Laredo, Texas for gunnery school. The men were trained on the guns they would fire and how to fire on and at a moving aircraft. (9:00) To teach soldiers how to lead a target, the men were trained on skeet shotgun shooting, and shooting off of a moving flatbed truck. (9:35) The men were also trained on an automatic BB gun that shot at paper airplanes. (10:38) The men were in Laredo for 3-4 months. (11:14) The men were allowed to go to Mexico for 1 day. (11:26) After Laredo, William was sent to Lincoln, Nebraska were he was assigned to his crew. (12:35) After a week in Lincoln and a 1 week furlough, William was sent to Boise, Idaho were the crew trained. (12:43) In Boise the men practiced shooting at airborne targets. (14:00) The men stayed in Boise Idaho for approx. 3-4 months. (15:15) �    William was very close with his crew. (16:22) The turrets were assigned by height. The tallest person received the upper turret. The smallest person was given the ball turret. (17:00) William was assigned the nose turret. (17:29) Williams first time in the air was in Boise Idaho. (18:16) Voyage Overseas (18:50)            The men were to be sent off as replacements. (18:54) William was sent via Victory ship to Naples. Than he was sent by train to his base. (19:00) He sailed out of Virginia in the fall of 1944. (19:10) William traveled in a convoy and was required to wear a life preserver at all times. (19:38) The seas were rough and there was a constant fear of submarine attacks. (20:35) It took approx 1 month to get to Naples, Italy. (21:30) The ships stopped once in Sicily. (21:33) He went to the 450th Bomb Group. (21:53) William was assigned a barracks to live. (23:00) The radio man and the tail gunner had gone AWOL before they went overseas. (24:00) The men were put in the air almost immediately after arriving. (24:35) Service in Europe (25:00)            William and his crew flew 8 missions. (25:04) He served in a B-24 four engine bomber. (25:30) The first mission William flew was in Southern Germany. The flak on this mission exploded 100 feet below the bombers due to tin foil used to distract radar. (25:40) William was also assigned on a mission were a mountain was bombed to cause an avalanche over a rail road. (26:50) While attacking Vienna, the men experienced cloud cover and needed to bomb by radar. This caused confusion amongst the formation of bombers. (28:57) While bombing Albania, the men were assigned to bomb a bridge. The bridge was missed but the town beside it was destroyed. (30:04) On his final mission he was shot down after his bombs were dropped. The men bailed out in Hungary. (30:50) After he bailed out, William's parachute almost didn’t deploy. To his luck he landed in a muddy plowed field. (33:00) The copilot had died due to parachute complications. (34:30) William was eventually discovered by Hungarian soldiers. (35:50) After all the men were found they were transferred by German truck to a Hungarian air force base. (37:00) Capture (38:10)   After they were captured the men had their watches, hand guns, and other things confiscated from them (38:11) The men were fed with cabbage or carrot soup. (38:44) �                 One by one the men were taken from their cell and interrogated. The men were threatened to be shot if they were spies. (39:10) The men were then sent down to another cell were they found a Russian pilot. (39:50) William was held there for about three days. (40:47) The Hungarian guards admitted that they hated the Germans, but they hated the Russians even more. (41:30) After being turned over to the Germans, the men were sent to a larger town in Hungary where they stayed in a hotel-like room. Here the men were interrogated once more by a German sergeant. (42:11) After 3 days there, the men were given a ride toward Vienna Austria. (43:00) Once in Vienna the men were sent via passenger train to a Gestapo station. (45:21) While at the Gestapo station, French laborers their begged William for his food. When the French were spotted begging, they were beaten. (47:05) The men were then transported to an interrogation camp that had fliers from all allied forces aside from the Russians. (48:10) While at the camp, William was sent to a solitary confinement cell 10 feet long by 6 feet wide. This lasted 3 days. (48:40) The Germans knew lots of information about the men, such as former work records, in an attempt to scare them. (49:58) The men were not beaten. (51:07) When released to a transit camp in Frankfurt in the winter of 1944/1945 the men could hear guns for the Battle of the Bulge. (51:30) The transit camp was very nice. The men had flush toilets, springs in their bed and good food. (51:45) The men were also allowed to watch (movies of) the 1936 Olympic Games and had access to the library. (53:28) William voluntarily stayed at the camp with 3 of his other crew men. The men were later shipped by boxcar to Berlin, Germany, due to overpopulation of the camp. (55:07) The train was attacked by an air raid. (56:40) Prison camp near Berlin (58:04)      Orders changed and the men were sent 30 miles south to a ground force camp instead of Berlin. (58:20) The prisoners were quarantined for 2 weeks due to a break out of scarlet fever. (58:36) The men were fed pea soup, and artificial tea. The tea was often used for shaving because it was hot. (59:45) The men were also given straw mattresses stacked 5 high. Some of the beds were used for firewood. (1:00:50) After 3 months, the food began improving because the men were given Red Cross parcels. (1:03:05) �     The men had very little knowledge as to why the conditions of the camp were steadily improving. (1:04:07) There was a British compound on one side of the camp and a Russian compound on another. The British compound had a radio that gave news on the war. (1:06:25) The Russians were constantly being beaten at the base. (1:07:30) William never had to fire his gun while in the air. He was always afraid of encountering a German jet. (1:08:50) William’s camp was liberated by the Russians in early summer of 1945. (1:09:33) Life after Liberation (1:10:06)        The men from William's barracks were made the guards of the camp. Men were not allowed out or in. (1:10:06) He was ordered to stay in the camp several weeks after it was liberated before the men could leave. (1:12:14) The men walked 6 miles to an officers' camp that he was made to clean up for American officers who would be arriving. (1:13:20) While going back to his original barracks, William saw many dead bodies, in spite of the fact that the war was over. (1:15:15) A convoy came to pick up the American soldiers but the Russians did not allow them to leave. Because of this, William and 2 of his close friends escaped the camp and walked 40 miles to the U.S. line. (1:16:20) After being picked up by a convoy, William was transported to Camp Lucky Strike in France. (1:19:06) William traveled back on a converted ocean liner. The trip over was much faster and much more smooth than the one going over. (1:19:34) Return the U.S. (1:20:21)        After arriving in the U.S. William was given a 60 day furlough. It bothered him that many were not given a good physical. (1:20:25) William was then sent to Miami Beach. Here the men were given better physicals. (1:21:16) He was then sent to Laredo where William awaited his discharge. (1:22:40) William exited the military as a Staff Sergeant. (1:23:40) William failed his exit physical due to a spot on his lungs. He was transported to Denver, Colorado to be treated. (1:24:53) William exited the military in May of 1946. (1:26:06) His family was aware that William was missing in action. They were not told he was captured. (1:27:26) Life after Service (1:28:20) �  William first worked on the staff in a Boy Scout camp after his discharge. He also wanted to return to college. (1:28:22) While in prison, William watched smokers scrape tobacco off the floor just to smoke a few puffs. (1:32:00) Effects of service (1:33:30)  William believes his military experience made him more of a man. (1:33:33)  He did make many connection and friends while in the service. (1:36:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Deary, William (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Deary, William Description An account of the resource William Deary, born in Pontiac, Michigan in July 31st 1925. He enlisted in the Army Air Force in 1943, and was sent first to Miami Beach for basic training, and then to Laredo, Texas, and Boise, Idaho, for training as a gunner. He was sent to Italy in 1944 and joined a B-24 squadron in the 15th Air Force. He flew eight missions late in 1944, and his plane was shot down over Hungary on the final mission. He was captured and moved through an assortment of interrogation centers and camps in Hungary, Austria and Germany before being assigned to a prison camp outside of Berlin. When the Russians who liberated the camp refused to let the men leave, Deary and two other men took off on their own and made their way back to American lines, after which he was sent home. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-08-26 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DearyW1180V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f878bf5d58452617914a6ba03df4d6fc.mp4 93a00f744f335795b8c6ba9a5dcbb03e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ca4b50c32c4559d29023dc455f45b719.pdf 8f7a9f98e1ecc26a600b7cfd90a02335 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Ollie Dean World War II 41 minutes 7 seconds (00:50) Early Life -Born in Kalamazoo, Michigan -May 1, 1927 -Family moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan during the Great Depression -Father opened an automobile radio business -Attended Ottawa Hills High School -Graduated in 1945 (01:23) Enlistment -Joined the Navy in early 1945 -Remembers Pearl Harbor -Sunday football game between Washington and Chicago was interrupted by news -Everyone was stunned at first before getting organized -During high school was in the ROTC (Reserve Officers’ Training Corps) -Did basic drills -Target practice -Paid a lot of attention to war through radio and the newspapers -Enlisted because “it was just the thing to do” -Only 17 years old when he enlisted -Had to have parents’ consent (05:20) Training -Sent to Great Lakes Naval Station in Chicago -Huge camp -Lots of marching involved -Made company commander because of prior involvement with the ROTC (05:54) Deployment -From Great Lakes was sent to Camp Shoemaker in California -Spent 3 or 4 days there -Boarded ship (06:10) More on Training -Had gunnery training -Quad 40’s, 5 inch, and 20mm -Had rifle training -Had boat training �(8:10) USS Cheleb -Auxiliary Cargo Attack (AKA) ship -Loaded with flour, rice and sugar -Went to Caroline Islands after a brief ammunition supply stop in Hawaii -Long voyage -Stayed in Caroline Islands at Ulithi -Warm -Headquarters for Composite Service Squadron -Massive dry dock for damaged vessels -Japanese still had a base at Trook -One night there was a kamikaze attack -One plane hit the USS Bonhomme Richard -Second plane crashed into a sandbar -Traveled north and passed through a typhoon -Lost some ships as a result -Got to Okinawa -Landing craft had been pushed about one mile inland from the storm (11:45) USS Mt. McKinley -Boarded the USS Mt. McKinley -Destination was the Inland Sea of Japan -Communications vessel -Most likely gathering intelligence for the planned invasion of Japan (12:10) More on the USS Cheleb -Traveled to Caroline Islands alone without a convoy -Did not zig zag -No worries about Japanese submarines -Went to general quarters half hour before sunrise and half hour before sunset -Prime time for attacks (12:45) More on the USS Mt. McKinley -Remembers traveling to the Inland Sea -Ordered to general quarters for a drill -Changed to “not a drill” -Attacked, but it wasn’t terribly serious, frightening though as he recalls -After this wound up in Vladivostok (discussed later) and rejoined the Cheleb -Details of the USS Mt. McKinley -Huge, repurposed cargo ship -Command and communication -Had a destroyer escort -Lots of electronics on board -Japanese Navy was nonexistent at this point, so it was relatively safe �(14:40) Sasebo, Japan -Spent some time in Sasebo, Japan -Post war/post Vladivostok on board USS Mt. McKinley (discussed later) -Had been a primary Japanese naval city -Massive cranes that could pick up ships -Massive submarines were stationed there -Saw the sub that sank the USS Indianapolis (15:50) Naval Duties -Manned a 5 inch turret -Couldn’t see much beyond the scope -Complex firing system -Had to keep triggers compressed and “bubbles” aligned to actually fire the gun (16:50) Vladivostok, Russia -Impressed by the women’s aid in the war effort -Introduced to vodka there -Departed from there for Tsingtao, China (17:35) Tsingtao, China -Went to Tsingtao on the USS Cheleb -Anchored 15 miles offshore because of massive tidal difference -Very modern city (18:40) Shanghai -Went from Tsingtao to Shanghai -Saw bodies floating in the Huang Ho River -Came in with a hospital ship -Tied up at Holt’s Wharf -Docked in front of a British hospital ship -Former British POW’s were on board being cared for -Mostly doctors and nurses that had been POW’s -Most were husbands and wives -Kept in good shape by the Japanese to keep other prisoners healthy -Invited their families on board the USS Cheleb for ice cream -Took part in the evacuation of White Russians -Met young woman and spent a leave with her -She was terrified about leaving -Destiny was either a prison camp in Russia or death -Stayed in Shanghai for three weeks -Not much prolonged contact with the Chinese population -Locals never bothered U.S. troops -Watched Chinese workers paint navy ships from their river boats -Unloaded sugar, rice, and flour -Doesn’t recall a Chinese military or police presence (23:33) Philippines (Some time after Hong Kong, discussed later) -First time seeing Japanese POW’s -They were large men not the stereotypically small men -They had been Imperial Marines from Korea -Had stopped at the isle of Negros for water �(24:45) Hong Kong -Complicated way of getting into the city -Sail directly towards a cliff, quickly zig zag, and once you’re around the cliff you see the city -Could not understand why the Chinese sector was called Victoria -British sector had a Chinese name -Only spent a week there delivering supplies -Allowed to go ashore briefly -Given a ration of three cans of beer -Played touch football (26:25) More on Shanghai -Remembers ripping pants getting into a rickshaw -Driver took them to a hole in the wall tailor -Told to sit on a stool on the sidewalk -Took off pants -Left sitting there while the tailor repaired the pants -Eventually got to see the simple, but involved repair process -Involved spit and a primitive iron -Couldn’t tell where pants had been ripped -While sitting there without his pants he attracted a small crowd -People just laughed at the absurdity of the situation -No harm was done -Chinese were orderly, courteous, and helpful (28:28) Formosa (After Hong Kong) -Went to the island of Formosa (now Taiwan) for water -Only stayed there for two days (28:45) Return Voyage -Stopped in the Philippines briefly -Went back to the United States (29:10) More on Sasebo, Japan -Stayed on the naval base there -Some sailors went ashore and visited area where atomic bomb had been dropped on Hiroshima -Note: Based on Sasebo’s location, Nagasaki’s location, and Hiroshima’s location they most likely visited Nagasaki and not Hiroshima -Returned and said that the surrounding area had not been directly damaged (30:20) More on the Return Voyage -Went up to the Aleutian Islands, Alaska and from there went down to Seattle, Washington -Tied up at Piers 90 and 91 (30:38) Seattle, Washington -Attached to a decommissioning detail -Had a crew of fifteen sailors -Removed critical equipment from ships -Sealed guns -Prepared ships for being towed to the boneyard at Tacoma -Mostly worked on cargo ships (“Liberties) and personnel ships -Stayed there for three months �(31:50) Back to Great Lakes and Coming Home -Returned to Great Lakes by troop train -Left over transportation from World War I -Told to buy three days’ worth of underwear -Threw dirty pairs out the window -Discharged at Great Lakes -Parents picked him up and he returned to Grand Rapids -High school diploma had been mailed to him (33:20) Post War Living -Enrolled at Grand Rapids Community College -Only stayed for a month because father had a massive heart attack -Took over business -After that went into sales -Worked in sales for fifteen years -Traveled a lot -Regrets not getting to see children grow up -Enrolled in college (at Aquinas) -Worked at a Kroeger’s warehouse at night -Wife worked at Aquinas -He and his sons got in for free because of this -She was the first Protestant to get hired by Aquinas -She was in charge of the dorms -1966 to 1970 were the best years -Going to college full time -Working at night -Building a cottage in Oceana County -After college got back into sales because of a lack of teaching jobs -Stayed in Michigan this time (35:20) Reflections on Service -“Grew up in a helluva hurry” -Got out of the Navy when he was nineteen -Upset that he couldn’t drink -Joined the VFW so that he could legally drink at meetings -Many young veterans were disenfranchised about the hypocrisy -Feels he had good timing -Feels that the Navy late in the war had been the safest bet -Sailing in boats had influenced his choice -Remembers never getting sea sick -Remembers almost getting pulled off the ship during the typhoon -Remembers black sailors being on board -Segregated, but treated fairly well -Used as servants to the officers -Segregation bothered him -Had been friends with a black kid in high school -Remembers going to Idlewild with him and seeing Duke Ellington, Count Basie, and Ella Fitzgerald there by happenstance � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dean, Oliver "Ollie" (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dean, Oliver Description An account of the resource Ollie Dean is a World War II veteran that was born in 1927 in Kalamazoo, Michigan and grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan. In early 1945 at the age of seventeen he joined the U.S. Navy and after training at Great Lakes Naval Station in Chicago was deployed to the Pacific Theatre and Southeast Asia aboard the U.S.S. Cheleb, a Navy cargo ship. He also served on the U.S.S. Mt. McKinley, a communications ship, on a cruise through the Inland Sea of Japan and up to Vladivostok. With the Cheleb, he spent time in Shanghai and Tsingtao while the Japanese were being evacuated from China. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-11-14 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DeanO1558V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/29f5b14e74af85baa1054700fd9b9271.mp4 bbe5c370d135734666f0534ffc96cead https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/501ac6fee8dbae63347281a27006a97e.pdf c017434d6666a193d5ac8245dd37ef0b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Lawrence (Larry) Dean (00:27:00) Introduction (00:13) Pre-Enlistment (00:21) • Born in Muskegon Heights, MI on June 30, 1934. • Father’s name was Oliver C. Dean and he was of German descent, while his mother was Catherine A. Robinson and she was of English descent. • His father worked for manufacturer Manning, Maxwell, & More and eventually became deputy sheriff. Remembers accompanying his dad to various places. (02:42) Father worked in sheriff’s department for 3-4 years. His mother was a housewife in the 30s. (04:06) • Describes briefly his time in grade school. Afterwards, he went to Muskegon Heights Junior High School. (06:37) During his time there he was diagnosed with epilepsy. Graduated high school but forgot to pick up his diploma the night of graduation. Attended Moody Bible Institute in Chicago for two years but couldn’t afford to continue and so didn’t graduate. Enlistment and Training (10:55) • Went to see the Army recruiter who told him that since he was 7 years free of epilepsy attacks he was able to join. (11:20) • Dean mentions that he took basic training in at Fort Sam Houston and San Antonio, TX and then served at Valley Forge Army Hospital. • Had 10 years prior experience before working as a surgical orderly. Briefly describes his time as an orderly. (13:05) Spoke to a nurse who told him about an opening in the Army Medical Corps. Mentions that the army saw his prior experience and sent him to work in that hospital. • Briefly describes basic training. Dean remembers crawling hands and knees, to the ground under barbed wire. (14:14) Didn’t receive additional medical training. Spent his 2-year service time in Valley Forge Army Hospital. �Brief Retirement Period and Enlistment Again (14:30) • Upon his discharge, Dean married. He worked for the cities of Chicago, Illinois and Pomona, Colorado as a garbage man for a while. (15:53) • In 1968, he enlisted and was in the service again for 3 months and was than dismissed by the army because he was an epileptic. After his Service (18:19) • Worked for Goodwill in Muskegon for a while and then was sent to Grand Rapids in 1981. (18:24) Was married for approximately 8 years and then was divorced. Briefly discusses how that came about. (20:01) He then moved back to Michigan and lived where he is now for 23 years. Briefly mentions his volunteer experiences with the nursing home. (26:48) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dean, Lawrence A. (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dean, Lawrence A. Description An account of the resource Lawrence L. Dean served in the U.S. Army Medical Corps from 1957 to 1959 in the U.S. In this account he discusses his pre-enlistment years, enlistment and training in the U.S., and his service. Dean concludes by discussing his life after the war and mentioning that he also served briefly for 3 months in 1968. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-03-19 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DeanL Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/533427d4655e2ded132bc207e671aacd.mp4 d22bf7a9b8fa3e917b1f82fc02eaf3f3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/426029bc8aeb53a14bfdd753863445a4.pdf eaa4f15fbda877826befb4e03084203f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Douglas G. Dean (00:43:00) Introduction (00:28) Family and Friends (00:40) • • • Born in Detroit in 1946. His dad died when he was only twelve. Had no brothers or sisters. Lived with his mom in the same house for 57 years before selling it. From an early age he loved music. Went to grade school and high school in Berkley. Graduated Berkley High School in 1965. Briefly mentions his sports activities in school. (03:10) Pre-enlistment Years (03:15) • Dean mentions working for Berkley Lanes afterwards for 5-10 years. Got married his high school sweetheart in August 1965. Joined the army in November 1966 just after being married. Was informed by letter to report to Fort Knox, Kentucky. Enlistment and Training (06:37) • • Went to Fort Knox, Kentucky where he underwent basic training. Describes his time there. Prior to basic training he was in the hospital for two weeks because of pneumonia. Ended up making up those 2 weeks he missed. (07:52) Mentions wife’s reaction and life with his wife. (09:06) While at Fort Knox, he was trained for funeral/laundry/bath detail. Describes the responsibilities of his work. Afterwards, he goes on to work in grave registration in Vietnam. (10:28) Vietnam (11:45) • • • Was assigned to grave registration. Was responsible for the care of bodies. (10:55) Only served there for 3 months. Dean elaborates in some detail about his job in grave. His jobs entailed plugging the wounds of bodies and the taking off of clothes of the wounded in the hospital he worked for. Prior to the service he had volunteered on many occasions in hospitals. (12:40) Tells of one encounter in which one person he knew from basic training came in and was in pretty bad shape. �• • • • • • Describes in detail, how the wounded would come into the hospital. In one case, a wounded man came in with a mauled face and was screaming when he grabbed Dean’s arm. At that moment, he died right then and there. Dean had to pry the man’s arm off his arm because he died right then. (15:05) Shares his personal thoughts on the incident. Dean mentions that he had no dreams about the event after the war. He tolerated the work. Mentions that the work kept him up for 10-18 hours a day. (17:04) Also tells of how the personal affects of soldiers were put aside for the remains but also mentioned that the remains were sent back nude. (17:39) Dean mentions how they would fly the bodies out of Danang, Vietnam and from there fly them back to the states. Mentions that when bodies came to them they would clean and dress their wounds and then would be put in body bags to be refrigerated to wait for shipping back to the states. (19:12) Dean mentions that identification was sometimes difficult. Describes some of the horrific corpses that came in that he worked on. (20:35) His unit was responsible for the care of the bodies from the Vietnamese, Army, and the Air Force, while the Marines took care of the bodies from the Marines, Navy, and the Koreans. (21:03) Mentions how Marine morticians usually worked on 400-500 bodies a day. Describes one encounter in which a North Vietnamese soldier was brought in and had his arms and legs broken. Mentions what the heat was like and the state of the bodies after being exposed to it. (23:29) Still remembers the smell and heat of war. Korea (23:44) • • • • After three months he was sent to Korea where he worked in a mortuary. The majority of forensic technicians and pathologists he worked with were Korean. Dean mentions that he never knew what he would see next in Vietnam. Over 90% of the guys he worked on were under 21. (25:10) Never did come into any contact with any Vietnamese. While in Korea, he went on one search and recovery mission looking for an APC that exploded a few days before. Dean says that they found heads, a couple of feet, and boots. (26:04) Dean describes Korean funerals. They would beat their heads against the casket and cry a lot. Left Korea in 1968. Going Home (28:29) • After 13 months in Korea and a total of 21 months in the service, he mentions flying back to the states in a commercial airline plane. (29:11) Left from Cam Ranh, Vietnam and flew to California. From California, he flew home to �Detroit at which point he was out. (30:45) His mother was still alive at this point. After the war (30:51) • • After being discharged, he describes the time that he took care of his mother. Mentions his divorce briefly. (31:41) After returning from the service, he spent his time learning the carpenter and electrical trade upon which he found a job working for his wife’s sister’s man. Had no problems adjusting to civilian life. For a period of 10-12 years he worked for Neutron installing ceiling fans. Dean discusses his battle with pancreatitis and his surgery. Was in the hospital for 9 months. Shares his personal thoughts on the war. Recommends that youngsters spend a year in the military. (43:10) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dean, Douglas G. (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dean, Douglas G. Description An account of the resource Douglas G. Dean who served in the Army from 1966 to 1968. In this account, he discusses his pre-enlistment years, enlistment and training in the U.S. and combat experiences abroad in Vietnam and Korea. He served in a grave registration unit and was stationed in Vietnam and Korea, and describes some of his experiences in detail. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-29 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DeanD Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/17fa563c2ea4b63a7daee27f0b439aa2.mp4 8c206dd029c3af907c8bcbf26a12276f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/08d04b4e39a99905d94154d29aac7de0.pdf 5b6d5e5f87d5fc741b27f0269e07d4e7 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Korean War Arnold De Loof Interview Length: (00:18:45:00) Early Life (00:00:01:00)  De Loof was born on a farm (00:00:35:00)  He had a family of 10 including himself, seven siblings, and his parents. (00:00:37:00)  Until he was about 11 years old, he had grown up during WWII. (00:00:48:00)  Went to a single-room schoolhouse as a young boy. (00:01:16:00)  De Loof spent his time ice skating, playing football, and general partaking in activities that didn’t require “a lot of money”. (00:01:28:00) o “Hardly anybody had any money in those days”. (00:01:31:00)  De Loof received up to a tenth grade education. (00:01:42:00)  His father passed away when he was nine years old. (00:02:03:00) o After his father’s passing, his mother had to go to work at General Motors in Grand Rapids to support the family. (00:02:10:00) o His grandmother began to live at the family home when his mother went to work. (00:02:50:00)  As he entered his teenage years, De Loof took on some small jobs such as mowing lawns and hauling hay. (00:03:14:00) o At 16, he got his first “real” job at a furniture factory. (00:03:27:00)  When he enlisted in the military, his girlfriend at the time left him because she did not want to date someone who wasn’t nearby. (00:03:52:00)  De Loof decided to enlist because he did not have a job at the time and wanted to “go see the world”. (00:04:30:00) o Until that time, he had only ever been to Texas and Mississippi. (00:04:041:00) Basic Training (00:04:57:00)  “We marched a lot”. (00:04:59:00)  As he was an Air Force trainee, he did not receive any foot combat instruction because those in the Air Force were responisble solely for airborne activity. (00:05:25:00)  The extent of De Loof’s training was “how to come and go in a military manner”. (00:05:40:00)  At first, De Loof was being trained to be a cook. After asking many times to be transferred to another training unit, he was placed in supply room squadron where he stayed for 6-8 months. He was transferred again after this length of time to be trained as a fireman, which title he assumed for the rest of his military days. (00:06:21:00)  De Loof’s department dealt with structural, chemical, and aircraft fires. (00:07:01:00) Active Duty (00:07:18:00)  One fire occurred at a “tank farm”, each of which held about 6,000 gallons of fuel, and took several days to completely recover. All the fuel was lost. (00:07:22:00)  De Loof kept in touch with his family by writing letters. (00:08:00:00) �        On the weekends, one of the mess halls on base would be turned into a “club” for the men’s’ enjoyment. They were able to drink beer and gamble on these nights, though De Loof never gambled himself. (00:09:33:00) o There was also a bowling alley, ping pong tables, and a gymnasium with spaces for various sports. (00:10:10:00) The place where the base was located was previously a home to an Eskimo village, which was moved north for the sake of construction. (00:10:40:00) o For this reason, the Eskimos did not wish to affiliate with the American troops. They also isolated themselves from the Americans to avoid illness. Some died due to intolerance of foreign disease. (00:11:10:00) De Loof made some friends that he was able to keep in touch with over the years. (00:12:10:00) o One friend, in particular, currently lives in Baton Rouge and De Loof pays him a visit once a year. (00:12:17:00) When he returned home, De Loof worked for Goodyear in Grand Rapids. (00:13:00:00) o His job was to install and recap, or rejuvenate, tires. (00:13:09:00) When he was dismissed, De Loof’s active military service time had expired but he was still required to complete four years on reserve. (00:13:40:00) o His reserve or “stand- by” time was loosely structured. De Loof was only required to “let them know where [he] was” so if he was needed for combat, he could be located with ease. (00:13:46:00) He started working one week after returning from South Korea. (00:14:20:00) o Besides Goodyear, De Loof also worked for a paper mill, a gas station, and a car dealership. (00:14:30:00) o He eventually bought a gas station that used to work in. His father- in- law was the previous owner, and De Loof managed it for 15 years. (00:15:00:00) o After closing the gas station, he began to drive cargo trucks for a living. He remained in this field until he retired. (00:15:11:00) De Loof never joined any veteran’s organizations. (00:17:00:00) o After he was ineligible for the VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars), he did not pursue any others. (00:17:00:00) o To be affiliated with VFW, one must have experience in a “war zone”. Even so, most of those involved in the Korean War had a hard time joining this organization because this was “not a declared war”. (00:17:17:00) If he had the choice, De Loof would join the service again. (00:18:20:00) o He did and saw things he would not have otherwise if he hadn’t enlisted. (00:18:23:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource De Loof, Arnold (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource De Loof, Arnold Description An account of the resource Arnold De Loof grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and enlisted in the Air Force during the Korean War. After training, he was sent to Alaska and Korea, where he did supply work and eventually became a fireman. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Holmgren, Eric Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Air Force Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-05-29 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DeLoofA1261V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/99d7cc386ab20c05732a0a6029c87efb.mp4 effcff342bf5aea6923809d5e1601701 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e5cfaa3f0950278128ceb650cd27aa89.pdf ab12ee7e3b63d3205b56212c856b9d8c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Walter De Leeuw (36:33) (00:01) Background Information • • • • • • • • • • • • Walter was born in southern Netherlands in 1934 He was 5 years old when the Germans came into his town The Germans took over the schools to use them as barracks His family had 9 children and it was hard for his parents to support them after the occupation Walter’s father was a captain on a tug boat 2 of his brothers were forced to go to Germany and work in a factory They could see V-1 and V-2 missiles go over their town Sometimes the missiles would malfunction and hit his town The Allies came into town and had to rebuild the bridges, but the Germans kept bombing them again Walter and his family were evacuated to a farm and their house was demolished They couldn’t buy much and were very hungry the last year of the war Some of the Dutch were communicating with the allies to try and help them (10:57) After the War • • • • The Allies took over the schools for a few months after the war ended There was plenty of food after the war The southern part of the Netherlands was liberated on November 5 and the north was liberated in December [parts of the north remained under German control until the war ended] Walter graduated from a tech school (16:45) Coming to America • • • • • Walter landed in NY and took a plane to Grand Rapids, MI He stayed on his uncles farm when he got there in the winter There wasn’t much to do on the farm and there weren’t any jobs until spring He found a temporary job at a marina Walter got a draft notice and decided to enlist in the Army (23:05) Training • • • • • He didn’t have any problems with going to basic training because he was in good shape Walter was sent to Fort Dix After Fort Dix he was sent to Frankfurt, Germany He had to go to field duty in southern Germany In the US he trained in a tank unit, but when he was sent to Germany they moved him to an artillery unit �• • • • • • • In the artillery unit they used 105mm howitzers The tanks he drove in the US were M-48s and they could go up to 40 mph Tank crews had 4 people While in Germany he could take leave and go to Austria, Switzerland, or France Walter went into the HQ company and drove jeeps for forward reconnaissance He arrived in Germany in 1959 and stayed for 2 years Walter got married while in Germany (32:45) After His Service • • • • Walter went back to the US and was discharged He started a job as a draftsman Then he worked at a factory He didn’t join a veterans club because he felt it wouldn’t be right since he didn’t serve during a war � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource de Leeuw, Walter (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource de Leeuw, Walter Description An account of the resource Walter de Leeuw was born in the Netherlands in 1937 and lived there during the German occupation of the country. He later emigrated to the US, and served in the US Army between 1959 and 1961. He trained at Fort Dix, New Jersey, and served in Germany with armored and artillery units. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Montagna, Douglas (Interviewer) Great Lakes Naval Memorial & Museum (Muskegon, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Moving Image Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-11-13 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DeLeeuwW Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/40df57f75b88ad92a5cc63d95e600c4f.mp4 e6c91cea0ffe74c4df8e4d68e320b04b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/20c01a77fa4da5b2b37bde4480ff88de.pdf a95c8d57300977593451413556a805ea PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project James de la Cruz (01:28:29) (00:15) Background Information • • • • • • • James was born in Texas in November of 1945 He described his parents as peasants and very poor They did not have any property or any of their own crops, but helped work on other’s lands His parents were from the Rio Grande Valley in Texas James moved to Michigan with his parents when he was one year old and his older brother moved to Mexico to live with his grandmother His father began working as a migrant worker in Bay City and later found work in Grand Rapids James grew up in a small shack in Grand Rapids, often moving around and going to different schools (13:30) Pending War • James graduated from high school in 1964 and was sure that he would soon receive a draft notice • He felt that he did want to serve, but not in the Army and on the ground in the jungle • James had taken ROTC in high school for 3 years and was well prepared for the service • He went through POW training, learned about foraging, being a leader and taking orders, map reading, and marksmanship • James enlisted in the Air Force in November of 1965 (18:30) Training • James left Grand Rapids on a bus after his induction in Detroit • They were sworn in and then brought to stay in a hotel near • Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas • They spent a lot of time keeping their barracks clean and in order, drilling, and marching • James quickly became a squad leader while a few others washed out • He tried to remain neutral and not join any specific groups or cliques; he just wanted training to be over as soon as possible • When he was finished training he was able to go back to Grand Rapids for a few weeks on leave (24:50) Tampa, FL �• • • • • • • • After training in Texas, James went to tech school for a short time in Illinois He learned about mechanics in repair classes and stayed in very old barracks that were very cold James was then sent to McDeal Air Force Base in Florida, which was like being on vacation The base was much nicer than the one in Illinois and they did not work too hard It was like a civilian job, working 8-5, and then they were free to do what they wanted James worked with equipment to help support aircraft, such as hydraulic driven bomb lifts, generator sets, AC units, air compressors, gas drivers, diesel drivers, and electric drivers There were about 30 air men working per shift; they were never overloaded, but always had plenty of work James spent 14 months living at McDeal Air Force Base (35:15) Thailand • James left with a small group of men from the base in Florida and headed over the Pacific • He had been looking forward to going overseas and had no fear of going • James was glad that he was not going to Vietnam and that he would not be fighting in the jungle • They had a very long commercial flight from California • They landed in Bangkok where there were many different GIs from other branches • There were also Canadians, Australians, and British people (40:20) Ubon • They flew from Bangkok to Ubon where many of the GIs already had learned to speak Thai • James was very impressed and wanted to quickly learn Thai himself • They stayed at a very old barracks on the base with 30 men per building • The weather was warm, tropical, and it rained every day • James was working on F-1 fighter bombers, KC-130s, cargo planes, small one man surveillance planes, helicopters, and black dragons • He was working on some very impressive aircraft and helping to maintain aircraft, similar to his duties in Florida (49:15) Tinker Air Force Base • James was transferred to Oklahoma and still maintaining aircraft, using mostly diesel equipment • He stayed with a mobile communications group living off base in tents in a field • They set up a mobile communications center with satellites, radar, radios… �(51:10) Thailand October 1967-1968 • There were aircraft often leaving from the base, but James never knew where they were going or any details of their missions • He only worked on engines, not plane weapons or armaments and did not ever communicate with the flight crews • Mechanics were only allowed to go to certain areas of the base; others were off limits • James was aware that some of the missions were flying out to Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia (56:40) Living on Base • They worked with some civilians on base that helped mostly with services and translation • James had gone through orientation when he first arrived and they were warned about traveling to certain areas in Ubon and to avoid certain activities • James had been up drinking in town very late and wondered to an area he had been told not to go to • He saw a bunch of people covered in some type of shawls and walking in a straight line • It was very strange, but he realized that when they got closer to him that they were all lepers • The Thai people had very different customs and culture from Americans; they were much more caring and considerate • There were some USO shows on base and the King of Thailand also came to visit (01:10:10) Bangkok • James only spent about six days in Bangkok altogether; 3 days when arriving in Thailand and 3 days when leaving • When he first arrived, much of his memory is a blur because it was all so exciting and different • He had not wanted to upset anyone and tried to be quiet on the sidelines, following military and societal rules • He had a more adventurous time when he was leaving the country • James went on a bus tour around the city with a friend, but the time went by very quickly • After all the time spent in Thailand James really missed pizza, drive-in theaters, and American women (01:14:00) Oklahoma • James had been living off base in a mobile home with other men in the military • There was not much to do in Oklahoma; they were in a college town that was full of bars • It was always hard to make friends in a military town with the regular civilians • It seemed like the people knew that the service men would only be there temporarily and did not want to make friends with anyone that would be leaving soon �• • • • James was starting to miss his family and wanted to go back to Grand Rapids He had signed up for 4 years of service, but was offered a chance to get out 9 months early He had been offered a promotion and bonus to resign, but declined, which he now regrets 10-15 years after being in the service James really began to miss his time in the Air Force (01:22:25) Discharged 1969 • After his time in the service it was easy for James to get a job and the economy was doing well • He worked for Central Air Lines for a while at the Kent County Airport in Grand Rapids • James also worked at the Metro Airport for North Central Airlines, and at GM for a while • He eventually ended up working for the US Postal Service and has been for 19 years; he is eligible for retirement now • James believes that the best experiences of his past were while in the Air Force and he would do it all over again � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource De la Cruz, James (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource De La Cruz, James Description An account of the resource James de la Cruz was born in Texas in 1945 and moved to Michigan when he was one year old. James spent 3 years in the ROTC while going to school in Grand Rapids, Michigan. James enlisted in the Air Force in 1965 and was sent to Texas for basic training. He also spent time training in Illinois for mechanics training. His first duty station was in Tampa, Florida where he spent 14 months maintaining aircraft on base. James then left for Ubon, Thailand where he was stationed for a year maintaining aircraft. After Thailand, James was sent to Tinker Base in Oklahoma before being discharged 9 months early. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Air Force Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-11-13 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DeLaCruzJ Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/75e678e1d7fe8a11ef6e0390ab31f049.mp4 954f716c8c75c0987134e44306dee3fe https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8479b825f53894b8e16676efe6c37a07.pdf 9e17805bf7cf40bc0231d33f3945915e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Cornelius “Casey” DeJonge (00:46:06) (00:17) Background Information • Born in the Netherlands • Family (of 6 at the time) came to Grand Rapids, MI in 1929 when he was 9 years old • The move was sponsored by family they had in Grand Rapids • Came from a seafaring family- 11 past relatives had been captains of ships • Father had no job in Netherlands but was in construction in America then in his final years he was in the Muller Bakery Company baking cakes • Cornelius only went to school through grade 9 (1:57) Developments in Europe as Nazis began to take over • (1:57-2:12) Was on his way to Pontiac, Michigan doing a brick job when he got notice of Japan attacking • Had relatives still in the Netherlands when the Nazis took over o His niece was run over by a Nazi tank o Uncle (father’s brother) had a small boat which enabled him to be spared (2:49) Joining the Merchant Marine • Began a US citizen in 1935; went into the Merchant Marine in 1943 • Was a brick layer for government buildings and worked at a magnesium plant in Nevada which kept him from being drafted • Left Nevada because his wife had a baby and went to Michigan • He was going to be drafted then read an article that said that he could “sail the seven seas with other clean cut young men just like him in the merchant marine.” • To sign up, Casey hitchhiked to Detroit • Passed the test and went to Sheepshead bay New York to train • Training was 16 weeks and was the same as one would get in the army • After four weeks, if he wanted to go right away, he could go as a mess man or in the storage department so he did • Training was marching, pile out of bed at four in the morning outside in the nude, gymnastics, boxing • Was 24 during this time; there were younger men with him and older as well • Had no prior experience (5:05) The First Trip: England • Out of New York �• (5:18-5:31) Last trip took him through the Panama Canal to the Pacific to the Philippines and he was on an ammunition ship • The ship was the Joshua Thomas and it went to England • Unloaded in England then loaded back up to go to North Africa • The ship was a liberty ship • (6:10-6:21) Once went to Russia and the ship carried electric trains • The ship sailed in a convoy (all of the ships he were on did except the Pacific) • Not on this first trip but on a different one, there were 105 ships in the convoy, each one mile apart • This first voyage was mid-summer, 1943 • (7:04-7:35) Trip from New York to Alabama there was a big U-boat scare and “a lot of ships were sunk along that coast; I think a lot of American people aren’t aware of that.” • (7:35-7:53) The convoy was not attacked during his first voyage but when he went to Russia, one went up the Clyde River in Scotland and sank a ship at 8 in the morning • (7:53-8:15) Casey always chose the 4 to 8 watch because then he didn’t have to work (chip decks, paint etc) because the maritime union stipulated that one could only work between 8am and 4pm (8:15) The men of the Merchant Marine • A lot of American men but some foreigners • The Portuguese were a large group of capable seamen • (8:47-9:04) Portuguese and Hollanders historically do not get along but Casey had a good friend who was Portuguese • (9:08) Captains o Most were old o Sometimes they were drunks o Had chief engineers on every ship who never did anything • (9:50) Boat Problems o One problem: went to Russia and once electric trains were taken off the ship, the electric cables used to keep them in place were left to hang off the ship and got tangled in the screw • (10:40) When the boat left Russia it loaded up with wood crating material o Each piece of wood was measured by a Russian girl or sailors who wanted to get paid overtime ƒ One Russian girl was an artist and gave him a nice painted picture of a farm scene and she wrote on the back “To Casey, For Remember” • (11:48) Club where Vodka was served where men could meet girls • (12:39) Went to Archangel, not Murmansk o (12:44) Russian government gave merchant marines 60 or 100 rubles but could not give American sailors money so they gave them perfume �(13:28) The Trip to Russia • Trip began in Scotland • Convoy before them had 48 ships and only 4 made it back • He was issued very heavy material (rubber outfit) to keep warm in; if he had fallen in, he could’ve lasted 20 minutes • Friend who was a policeman from New York got sick, was sent to a Russian destroyer then later died and was buried at sea (14:55) Off Duty • Hired someone to take his place on the ship so he could get off in England for a dollar an hour or it could have been a dollar a watch • Casey spent a lot of time in English cemeteries looking a gravestones and also crossed the London bridge quite a few times o (15:45) Ended up helping to rebuild London Bridge in Lake Havasu, Arizona later on in the 1970s (16:00) On the Ship • On duty jobs: Steering and lookout o Couldn’t see anything as a lookout and was never required to go up in the crow’s nest, they always were put either on the forepeak or the bow • (18:06) Off-Duty at Sea: Slept, spent time in mess hall o His crew of 45 men had a waiter that would bring their food to them and at every meal, they could choose from three different meats o Got paid on way back to New York one time to throw meat overboard because the next group of men on the ship wanted fresh meat • (19:50) Navy Personnel on the Ship o 8 20 millimeter guns, 1 3 inch anti-aircraft gun, 5 inch surface gun and Casey always volunteered to load 20 mm guns o Naval guns and smoke bombs only had to be used once when the ship was attacked in the Mediterranean and this is when he got a combat bar (21:00) Places Visited • London, England o Missed the ship one time and had to be transported by train through England • Algiers, Algeria o Went here right after the invasion but not much damage • Russia o Worst experience o Fish and cabbage was given out and stoves could only be used if four people were using them at a time and the people lived in dormitories • (23:48) Casbah, Algiers o Scary place where army servicemen were not allowed to go • (23:97) Could go to Iran �• (24:45) Unloading in Russia was done by women and it was the only place where there was a soldier at the end of the gangway and the worst thing someone could bring ashore was a magazine • (26:50) Allowed two days off for every week on the ship so he went home to see his wife o When he came back he would have to pick a new ship, and could only turn down 2, and if you did, you would automatically be on the third ship; Casey always picked the first and tried to get a ship headed to dry dock so his wife could come with him (28:00) Pay • 100 dollars a month was sent to his wife • Casey’s wife did not have a job • He got paid at the end of the trip in cash in the officers mess hall (29:23) Caribbean, Panama Canal, Pacific • Going through the Panama Canal was a surprise because everything in the ship had a UK label • They then loaded up ammunition in Alabama and went through the canal to get to the Philippines • Went in to Manila once or twice a week to get the mail • One time in Manila he got in a truck with other soldiers and the driver told him to lay down for awhile because they were going through “suicide pass” where there were still snipers because the war was still going on the 11 months he was there • Fake money was all over the streets in Manila • Filipinos were friendly and mostly Catholic • The only other place he went to in the Pacific was the Marshall Island atoll of Eniwetok o Casey had a few beers there was very popular when each person was given two beers because he did not drink (33:00) Returning to Civilian Life • Left Merchant Marine in 1946 because the war ended • Got off the ship in Seattle, went all the way home then was telegraphed to come back to the ship to get paid • Unaware as to how much he was paid • Had to buy his own clothes and transportation but was paid more than some naval personnel • Had a lack of benefits after he got out but today he has the VA which covers his numerous prescriptions • (36:00) One memory that stood out in Casey’s mind was when someone got murdered on the ship in Algiers; stabbed to death • The coast guard were the merchant marines policemen �• (37:19) One day the galley chimney was not working so there were no hot meals to go around o A British destroyer then came close to the ship and dropped two depth charges because the men on Casey’s ship said that they would not get out of their seats until they got a hot meal; the charges got them out of their seats • Experienced a major storm where the gangway broke o Casey was told to go up to the forepeak and lock the padlock in there because there were valuables there • One time in the Philippines, a Captain asked a steward if the laundry was being done onshore because a lot of blue bedspreads were gone; it turned out they were being sold for clothing, especially in North Africa (40:45) Reflection • He loved it and believed it was a nice way to live but he had to get back to his family • Became a foreman where he had worked before the war then went into business alone • Later he went to Bahrain with the church to build hospitals, then to Oman then to Basra, Iraq and built a school             � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource De Jonge, Cornelius (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource De Jonge, Cornelius Description An account of the resource Cornelius "Casey" De Jonge was born in the Netherlands, became a US citizen in 1935, and served in the Merchant Marines between 1943 and 1943. He tells of a series of voyages in the Atlantic, Mediterranean and Pacific, including some difficult trips to Russia via the Arctic route. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Merchant mariner World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-03-06 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DeJongeC Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/727fa9e77abfb241c783b9f8790e8d13.mp4 de875f5a5635dc6c3f4585b8f188c381 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4be26c81880a021172b035d79d6678f6.pdf 41e77aa8a880b01da56b889d59a55288 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Edward de Blécourt (01:22:46) (00:25) Background Information • • • • • Edward was born in Phoenix, Arizona on October 9, 1981 and later moved to Michigan when he was 5 years old Edward’s father was an electrical engineer and his mother stayed at home He graduated from high school in May of 2000 and joined the Army Reserve on September 11, 2000 because he wanted to travel and get out of Michigan Edward was in the Army Reserve while working two other jobs He had just started college and finished basic training when the towers were attacked in New York (2:30) Basic Training October 2000 • Edward was sent to Fort Leonard Wood in Missouri for basic training and AIT • It was freezing cold during training while they were drilling and working with artillery • Edward was training with all different types of people from all over the US • He began Advanced Infantry Training working with large trucks and tractor trailers in different types of weather and terrain • Edward trained for 6 months and then only had to report one weekend a month • He had been working with the 180th Transportation Company in Muskegon, MI (8:30) After 9/11 • Edward was called up for service after 9/11 into Fort Custer in Michigan • The atmosphere was very stressful and it seemed like no one knew what was going on • Many of the people there had previously fought during Desert Storm • All the rules tightened and everyone was more strict • In January of 2003 Edward was involuntarily transferred to Delaware and only had three days to get ready • They were sent to Fort Dix in New Jersey and taking tests before leaving • Edward was part of a new unit, the 946th and just getting to know everyone (14:20) Iraq • Edward received orders to leave in march and was on an 18 hour flight to Kuwait • They arrived on April 4, 2003 and the place smelled terrible • Landing was kind of scary and chaotic with everyone running all over the place • He had gone from training in the freezing cold to a very hot environment • They were staying in tents at Camp Wolf with no cots or sleeping bags �• Another unit had to move in also and the place was very crowded (21:00) Living Quarters • The Company began looking for somewhere else to stay and checked about three other camps, which were all full • They slept outside for a few days and then ended setting up in a huge warehouse that had about 18,000 people living in it • They began going on missions from Kuwait into Iraq and delivering fuel and gas • There were many people on the side of the road begging • They often got stuck in Iraq because it was too late to travel across the country • They would have to sleep outside near their trucks; it was very hot with many bugs and sandstorms (27:30) Progress of the War • Edward and others did not know anything about what was going on with the progress of the war • He would have to stand in line for four hours for a phone call and only had twenty minutes to talk • There was no Stars and Stripes for any news, just rumors • Edward continued delivering supplies, but often the AC in the trucks malfunctioned and the temperature could reach 140 degrees • They drove as quickly as possible to avoid being attacked and so that they could get back to their living quarters on time (39:30) QRF • The men continued to be told that they would be going home any time, probably next month • They were then told that they were doing so well that they would have to remain there for another 6 months • They were sent back to Kuwait and formed the QRF: Quick Reaction Force and basically guarding in Kuwait for 5 months in anticipation of an attack • They were very bored and there was usually no work to be done • Edward often played video games and it was nice because there was AC • He went into Kuwait City a few times and everyone there was very nice (47:30) Waiting to Leave • Edward had since learned a little bit of Arabic and some cultural customs • He went on a few humanitarian missions and got to know a few civilians • Many heard that they would not be in Iraq for a whole year so that the government would not have to pay them veterans benefits �• They were continually pulled off missions and replaced, told they were going home the next day, but then something would always go wrong (50:45) Back in the US • Edward left Camp Wolf and stopped in Amsterdam and then landed in New Jersey • They stayed at Fort Dix for two weeks and then were sent back to Michigan • It was hard for Edward to get back to civilian life and he continued in the Reserve until March of 2008 • Edward began attending college again at Davenport University and had to eventually get surgery on both his knees • Driving very fast for long periods of time over rough terrain had messed up his knees • The government paid for his surgery, but it took years for it to all get set up (1:02:10) Driving in the Desert • There were no roads in the desert or infrastructure • The roads that do exist are in very poor condition and have been through battle • Many trucks went into Iraq and were shortly completely destroyed • There was dust everywhere and often accidents • They always had to drive too fast to meet their deadlines • Sometimes they would be traveling in a convoy of 100 trucks (1:12:15) Looking Back • Edward was not part of an established unit, but would have like to have been working in a hierarchy with people he knew and trusted • Many times things were confusing and no one knew who was in charge � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource de Blécourt, Edward (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource de Blécourt, Edward Description An account of the resource Edward de Blécourt was born in Arizona in 1981 and later moved to Michigan. He joined the Army Reserve in 2000 and was called to active duty after 9/11. He was sent to Kuwait in March of 2003 and served as a machine gunner on trucks that delivered fuel to bases all over Iraq, but primarily on the Kuwait-Baghdad highway. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army Reserve Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-09-02 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DeBlecourtE Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6b172811871820a013d0e4f270f4036e.mp4 892ceeec6e407878e6a69846dcb4c299 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e64eae7b242635538362e32917fb5926.pdf 764caf8501c220ec19b6b99acf2a4b1b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Operation Iraqi Freedom Interviewee’s Name: Mike Day Interview Length: 45 minutes Pre-Enlistment (00:30) • Childhood (00:35) o Born in Napa Valley, California in September, 1984. At age 2, he and his parents moved first to Whitehall and then Grand Rapids, Michigan. (00:37) • Family (0:42) o Growing up, his father worked as a fiber optics man on televisions. (00:51) • Education (01:08) o In high school, Day mentions being a small town boy involved in activities such as going to the beach and spending time with friends. (01:32) o When 9/11 hit, Day was age 17 and was in the principal’s office and he relates how he saw the World Trade Center being attacked. (01:41) Enlistment/Basic Training (02:03) • Why he joined (02:14) o Upon completion of high school, being that he was 17 and not quite eligible to gin up for the service, he didn’t know what he was going to do. In April, 2003 he walked into a recruiter’s office and signed up and was on his way to Fort Knox for basic training by May to be in the National Guard. (02:30) • Where he went (03:10) o Fort Knox basic training (03:17) ƒ Describes his attendance of basic training at Fort Knox in some detail. (03:23) ƒ Day mentions how his drill sergeants yelled at new recruits like him. (04:04) �ƒ Basic for Day lasted about 9 weeks in three phases: Red in which they underwent intensive training, White in which they eased up on a trainee and blue phase in which they allowed the trainee to make phone calls home. At the end of it, he was given a 1-day pass to visit family and friends. (05:00) o Fort Leonard Wood training (05:37) ƒ Was shipped for from Fort Knox to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri where he spent 5 ½ weeks training and learning how to operate trucks. Mentions this experience in some detail. (05:44) ƒ Day spends some time describing some of his military responsibilities with the big military trucks he worked with. (06:05) During his stay there, he received a letter detailing what he could expect when he was deploying to Iraq. After this experience he went home unsure if he was ready for school yet. (07:17) o Other activities (07:31) ƒ Briefly describes his work with 7up and the day he was called up by the National Guard to go to Detroit and then Grayling, Michigan to pick up his training equipment. (07:50) ƒ Briefly describes in some detail summer training and forward operation base experiences. (08:50) ƒ At about that time, he was still living with his parents when he received a call from his staff sergeant who told him to report to the 1461st Transportation Company(09:36) A week later he was attached to the 61st Transportation Company doing some drills, and then off to Camp Atterbury, Indiana. (10:20) ƒ His impressions of Iraq up to this point were all based on what he heard from the media. (10:45) o Camp Atterbury training (11:10) ƒ Went down to Camp Atterbury, where he trained for 3 months in 1st Aid and road marching. (11:18) ƒ Had a lot of training in the searching and disarming of IEDs before encountering them in Iraq. Day mentions what his body armor consisted of. (12:02) Once deployed in Iraq, he was issued an additional 20 pounds of body armor for the weak points in his vest. (13:23) �ƒ The type of weapons he trained was M-4s and M-16s. (13:33) ƒ After 3 months there, he was sent by air aboard a C-130 aircraft, making a brief stop in Germany and flew on to Kuwait. (14:48) Active Duty (14:55) • Where he went (15:05) o Camp Speicher background (15:10) ƒ Geographically, Camp Speicher is in Northern Iraq near Tikrit, Iraq. He briefly describes his impressions of Iraq. (15:14) ƒ Being attached to a heavy transportation unit his responsibilities included transporting Abraham tanks, heavy equipment, and other equipment places. (16:32) ƒ On base, he briefly mentions different interactions with other American military branches and British personnel. (16:52) o Military missions (17:35) ƒ On his first mission, Day went to Baghdad where he was pulled out of transport platoon duty because he was found to have computer skills and because of this he was put in charge to head up a MWR. (17:40) ƒ Afterwards, he received a mission from his CO to go to Camp Liberty in Baghdad. (18:13) ƒ • About that time, the level of danger was potentially dangerous. Sometimes they came across IEDs but rarely he was ever shot at. (18:52) • Briefly describes the setup of a typical convoy looked like and how to look for IEDs. His first mission took place at about November 2006. (19:58) • Got fired at by a bunch of tracers. Called in the men in the gun trucks who fired their 50-calibers. Briefly describes what transpires when a mine blows a tire. (21:14) • Briefly describes how an IED blows up a humvee, and/or a convoy truck. (22:52) Briefly describes his daily schedule. (24:03) �o Living conditions (25:39) ƒ Among the places, Day mentions being deployed are Camp Liberty in Baghdad; Camp Speicher near Tikrit; and Camp Anaconda in Balad, Iraq. According to Day these camps each had their own feels. (27:43) ƒ Contact with Iraqi civilians was limited. The most he saw were shepherds herding their sheep until he got to the big cities where it was more heavily populated. (28:33) ƒ Was in Iraq for 11 ½ months with his National Guard unit. For the most part respect was shown all around with the various branches. (29:30) ƒ The unit his unit was to replace showed them their duties and responsibilities and where to go. (30:57) o Other activities (31:50) ƒ On one encounter, Day was attached to a unit an area called Area 51 a place where Kuwaiti civilians and refugees congregated. Attached with 5 others who were mostly interpreters he was responsible for the care of 500 internationals. (32:54) Briefly describes his time with them. (33:05) o Going Home (34:46) ƒ Before going home, Day trained the new replacements and then went back to Camp Atterbury, Indiana where he spent 4 days. Was then paraded onto a parade field in Jackson, Michigan with many other officers to hear Gov. Granholm and other generals speak to them and then to be discharged afterwards. (35:10) ƒ Mentions that he had a few more drills with the 61st before returning to the 1463rd unit out of Wyoming, Michigan. (35:54) After the Service (36:10) • Adjusting to Home (36:15) o Spent the first couple of days in shock and readjusting to ordinary life. Also spent time with friends and family. (36:31s) o Afterwards, he went on to attend MCC for a while and then to GVSU. (36:47) o While readjusting to civilian life, he relates how with the mentality of showing no emotions and surviving everyday ruined many relationships he pursued afterwards. (37:42) �• Military service after he was discharged (38:02) o Day is currently spending another 3 years in the military mainly because it offers him the chance for a payment bonus. To kids who might want to join the military he mentions how positive the training and discipline he learned as a result of joining the Armed Services. Also mentions that they should know what they are signing up for before joining. (38:40) o Day wraps by mentioning that the military forced him to grow up and briefly mentions what his future plans were. (41:43) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Day, Mike (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Day, Mike Description An account of the resource Mike Day was a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom who is currently serving in the National Guard. His recent term of deployment lasted about 11 ½ months. In this account, Day discusses his pre-enlistment year, his enlistment and training in the U.S. His term of active duty in Iraq has taken him to various camps and cities in Iraq as part of a transportation company. Among his duties included serving as a convoy truck operator transporting military equipment to their destinations. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Kentwood, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-05-19 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DayM Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/73135690e5d1641abfb8e006e61f9a1d.mp4 d3034ddcc6d3543d11dcbe9f824d0904 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f091fa35239e20c5417f8bbd581fc920.pdf 43e8b521e5657402361c02c7db0ccb22 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam War Harold Day 38:52 Introduction (00:24)       Harold was born in Ava, Missouri on June 26, 1949. He grew up there with his family that was in the restaurant business along with farming. Harold went up to tenth grade in high school; he then moved to Kansas City and eventually began working for General Motors. He worked there for ten years before getting into the auto body business. Harold was drafted on April 8, 1969 into the United States Army. At that point, he knew that a war was going on and that people were getting killed. He went on with his life until they came looking for him. He had an uncle that was in World War I, but no other relatives that were veterans. Military Training (02:15)               Harold was sent to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri for his basic training. When they first got to training, they were given their uniforms and then the training started. The instructors were tough, but they needed to be to get them in shape. Harold did not have any trouble adjusting to military life, since he was used to having discipline growing up. Most of the instructors were likely Vietnam Vets but he wasn’t sure. Basic training lasted 8 weeks, followed by AIT (Advanced Individual Training). (04:12) While at AIT, each man was assigned their MOS (Military Occupational Specialty), Harold’s was Eleven Delta, armored. AIT was conducted at Fort Knox, Kentucky. AIT differed from basic training because along with the physical aspect of training, they also learned their individual jobs. Harold was trained on the M114 (armored personnel carrier) and tanks (M48, M60). All aspects of the vehicle are learned such as being the mechanic, driver and other jobs on the vehicle crew. When he was drafted, he knew he was going to Vietnam. AIT was an additional 8 weeks. After that training was completed, Harold was sent home for thirty days and then was sent to Vietnam. Vietnam (05:58)  Harold went to Oakland, and was flown to Hawaii, Guam and then to Vietnam on a chartered commercial flight. �             His first impression of the country of Vietnam was hot and muggy. Their plane landed in Long Binh, a large base outside of Saigon. They landed during the day, and they were immediately sent through processing which included being issued their jungle fatigues. (07:06) The processing into country took about threes days, and Harold was then assigned to the 1st Battalion, 4th Cavalry, 1st Infantry Division. They were based out of Lai Khe, which is located north of Saigon. The area around the base was farms, rice fields and a rubber plantation called “The Michelin”. Harold’s unit was an armored one that included M113 APC’s and M48 tanks. He was made a tank driver. He joined them when they were out in the field. He was trucked out to his unit and he began working. Before he went out in the field, he was given some initial in-country training about booby traps and other things to be mindful of while in Vietnam by the 1st Division. (09:46) In their area of operations, not much was going on, but they ran convoys and some shooting but not much. One APC was called out one night and while driving through a mud hole a command detonated mine was set off and injured some people. They primarily worked within their armored unit, and Harold did not feel in danger with the unit at that time. The civilians would come out and see the soldiers as they drove by in their tanks. They would ask for candy and c-rations. (11:54) The morale was good with the men, everything they did was routine and not to demanding. They did not have any big issues with drugs, and Harold let his fellow soldiers know that his number one goal was to get home safe and he would not let anything jeopardize that. Harold was with the tank unit from September till the first or second week of November. He did not like the tank commander on his vehicle, so he volunteered to go to sniper school. (13:48) Sniper Training and Operations (13:55)        Harold heard on the radio that they were looking for volunteers for sniper school so he decided to sign-up. As a boy, he hunted and was familiar with shooting. Out of 23 shooters that completed the course, he graduated 5th. Sniper training was a lot of shooting; they did not receive any training on missions or anything other than shooting. When he was given his diploma after graduating the course, General Wolf told the men that if they were misused, get a hold of him and he would get things fixed. After that training they were sent around in teams observing the country side in towers that were air lifted around the area. (15:48) While doing that, they did not see many Vietnamese, most likely because the tower was clearly visible to everyone, especially the enemy. �      Harold did not feel exposed or vulnerable in the towers because he could see and hit the enemy long before they could hit him. He remained with the 1st Infantry Division until they pulled out February 1970, then he was reassigned to the 101st Airborne. Harold knew that being sent to another unit that was up north was more dangerous because things were more hostile up there. They were flown on a C-130 north to Camp Eagle where the division headquarters was located. (17:38) With the 101st, they started using helicopters instead of trucks. Harold and one other sniper were put with a reconnaissance unit and missions began almost immediately. The first month of operating, did not have a drastic amount of enemy activity. They were operating around Hue City, A Shau Valley and Khe Sanh. (19:45) They performed various missions including basic reconnaissance, rescue operations and anything else that came up. The snipers basically operated as regular infantry and he got along great with the other men. Ripcord (21:28)            One day they came around asking for volunteers to go up to Firebase Ripcord for perimeter guard, they volunteered for 10 days but ended up staying for 30. This was in June when they were there. The base was in the mountains and was just like any other firebase to them. Harold and his sniper partner did not find out what really happened there until thirty years later. They began taking mortar rounds one day, and after the attack, they paced the hits off and one was 13 feet from his position and another was 9 feet. (23:28) As perimeter guard, Harold does not recall any targets to shoot at while there. In a five day period 10 men from his troop were killed, including 7 killed on July 8th. It still bothers him to this day, because he always wonders if there was something else that he could have done to keep them alive. They had more enemy in the area than they could have ever anticipated. Harold feels that the upper echelon of leadership truly cared about the men and they did everything they could to keep them safe and out of harm’s way. Harold has learned more about this in the last few years after reading and studying on the subject and from attending the Ripcord reunions. (26:03) After Ripcord was abandoned, he continued to work in the area. When he had thirty days left in country, the First Sergeant came up and asked Harold if he could weld. He told him that he could so he had to make some kitchen sinks to keep him out of the field. 10 days left in country, Harold was sent out in the field and he was then asked to extend for 58 days and then after that he would be given an early out. He decided to go home and serve his remaining time in the states where he had a better survival rate. When Harold got home, he was stationed at Fort Hood, Texas and he served another seven months and then got out of the army. Looking Back (27:40) �        Back in the armor unit, when they would shut down for the night they would park the vehicles in a circle like a wagon train. They would then erect a protective fence that would catch RPG’s. Most of the time they were given hot meals, but when a vehicle broke down or something else happened they might miss it. Once, they got stuck in the mud and it caused them to miss their cold beers and hot meals. (28:52) When they got stuck, they would hook APC’s to the tank and pull them out. On one occasion it took ten APC’s back to back pulling to get Harold’s tank out of a mud hole. With the 1st Infantry Division, they spent most of their time out in field. When Harold was with the 101st, they used helicopters for entry and extractions. They also worked hand in hand with the Army Rangers. (30:28) 50% of his time in Vietnam was spent in the field. They were on base more than a regular infantry unit was. On their reconnaissance patrols they would find weapons, information and documents and they would find these in bunkers that people left behind. July 8th was the worst day for him in Vietnam because seven of his fellow soldiers were killed. (32:28) After July 8th, the morale of the unit went down due to the mourning of their losses, but they continued with their mission. Replacements were sent to replace the losses, but not right away. Back in the States (33:29)        When he was sent back to Fort Hood, a buddy of his told him in order to not pull duty for thirty days to stay gone, which he did successfully. They didn’t do much, they would run maneuvers in the field and chase deer with tracks but they had it easy. Harold did not pay much attention to the war protesters. He got his job back at General Motors in Kansas City and later got into auto body painting. After working in Kansas City, he moved down to Texas in the 1980s and once he retired he moved back to Missouri. (35:55) His military service made him more disciplined and allowed him to be able to handle the outside world in a better way. It made him tougher, and he would do it again if he could. Give him a gun and he’s ready to go. When he was living in Texas near Fort Hood, he met a Vietnam vet that got Harold in touch with General Harrison who was the commanding officer of the 3rd Brigade during Ripcord. Harold got to know him and his wife and he was invited to attend a reunion in Springfield, Missouri. This is now the third Ripcord reunion that Harold has attended. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Day, Harold (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Day, Harold Description An account of the resource Harold was born in Ava, Missouri on June 26, 1949. He worked for General Motors in Kansas City before being drafted into the United States Army in 1969. After basic training, Harold was made a crewman on armored vehicles such as M114 APC's and M48 and M60 tanks. He was sent to Vietnam and assigned to the 1st Battalion, 4th Cavalry, 1st Infantry Division. Harold served as a tank driver before volunteering to go to sniper school. He graduated fifth in his class and was later reassigned with the 101st Airborne. Harold spent thirty days on Firebase Ripcord. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-10-11 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DayH1544V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fd7ee07a4371dd0ba6db7f06542cc6c4.mp4 ec1e8bbf639f81f0271ffd6e79f4469a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7511877d5ef0b2e85704d8b4d29cc49c.pdf 9099764bd120bee72b686eae98190571 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Wayne Davis (00:31:45) (0:20) The Early Years • Born in Benton Harbor June 6, 1957 • Had 1 sister and 3 brothers • Dad worked at Superior Steel and later at the Benton Harbor Public Schools from where he retired • Mom also worked and retired from the Benton Harbor Public Schools (1:24) Before Grade School • Went to Alabama during the summers to visit grandparents o One time Davis stayed a full year with his grandparents down in Alabama • Both sets of grandparents lived in Alabama o His dad’s father was named Claude or “Wig” because he was bald  Claude was a farmer and also ran a barber shop out of his home o His mom’s father was named Gus Shackleford  Gus worked at the paper mill (2:19) Alabama • Played with cousins • Segregation was extremely prevalent o Davis and his family still had to sit on the back of the bus o Separate washrooms • Played with cousins o Cowboys and Indians, army, rode bikes, etc. • Saturday mornings, Davis helped his grandpa Claude load up trucks with crops to take to market • Saturday afternoons, Davis sold peanuts his grandpa roasted in his grandpa’s barber shop o The barber shop was located right behind the house o It was more of a side business, opened mainly on Saturday afternoons and Friday nights (4:25) School • Elementary School o Went to McCoy which was 4 blocks from his house o Played the trumpet and also baseball • Junior High o Continued to play trumpet o Favorite class was math and typing  Liked typing because only boy in the class!  The reason he took typing was because during the summer Davis had broken his hip playing football; the typing class replaced Davis’ gym class • Benton Harbor High School �o Played in the band until 10th grade o 11th and 12th grade Davis worked at Jewel as a bagger and a stocker  Enjoyed job because got to meet a lot of people (8:20) School Dances • Attended many school dances • When missed his curfew, his mom would sit behind the door with a broom; when Davis would finally get in, his mom would hit him with the broom and then would have Davis’ father say a few words to Davis o Davis’ father would say, “Just try to make curfew and make Mom happy!” (9:50) Cars • First car = ’66 Chevy Impala • Second car = ’68 Buick Skylark (10:15) Enlisting in the Military • Spent one year at John Wesley College in Michigan but decided it wasn’t for him and that he was going to enlist with a few buddies • When returned home from college in April, told mom he was going to Detroit to visit a girl friend but instead Davis was actually going to Detriot to enlist • Enlisted in the Army • Day after enlisted, Davis was sent to Fort Knox, Kentucky (11:25) Training • Felt a lot like football practice • Specialized in supply • Went to Virginia to attend Supply School • After school, sent to Germany for 4 years with the 42nd Medical Company (12:15) Supply School • It was a self-paced school that usually took 12 weeks to complete • Davis finished it in 6 weeks • Food was decent but the food in Germany was even better (13:10) Why Germany • Everyone who enlisted was asked where they would want to travel to • So Davis was sent to Germany on a plane o 10 hour flight on a DC-10 (13:40) Germany • Arrived in Frankfurt where Davis was assigned to the 42nd Medical Company • Davis and the Company were sent to Nuremburg • Stayed in the Merrill Barracks which were nicknamed the “Gangster Hotel” o One of Hitler’s old headquarters  All types of underground tunnels; the tunnels were blocked off so Davis was not able to go through the tunnels o Just down the road was a park called Duzendteich  There were 12 ponds that Hitler used as landing pads for his planes; he would drain the pond, land his planes, and then refill the pond with water. (15:00) Language • Language was not a problem �The younger people spoke both English and German so Davis never had to learn German (15:19) Other Places Davis Visited • Rome, Paris, Greece, and Spain (15:40) Rome and Paris • Rome o Took a tour bus around • Paris o Davis went on his own o Took a 16 hour train ride from Germany to Paris o Met up with his cousin who was playing pro-basketball o Stayed 30 days (Davis was on his 30 day leave) o Followed the team around (17:40) Responsibilities at Base Camp in Germany • At first, took care of dirty laundry, ordering clothes and shoes • Switched to the Motor Pool o Dispatched out ambulances  Kept track of mileage and scheduled maintenance (18:19) Places Visited in Germany • Went to one USO outdoor concert • Saw auto races • Olympic Village • Dachau (19:00) Dachau • Visited Dachau, one of Hitler’s concentration camps • Very interesting and very sad • Davis said he could still smell the burning flesh (20:20) After Germany • Returned home and served in the Reserves for 6 years with the military police o Returned to Germany one summer for training (20:55) Military Police • Stationed in: Denver, Fort Benjamin Harrison in Indianapolis, and also in Little Rock, Arkansas • Arkansas o Was sent there for 2 months to guard the Cubans [from Mariel Boatlift?] o Scary situation but because members of the police force, they were allowed to carry .45s and guns unlike the National Guard o The military police were flown down to Arkansas and given riot gear to wear o Stayed in barracks right next to where the Cubans were being held  Cuban men, women, and children were living behind barbed wire fences in tents (23:40) Jobs • While in the Reserves, worked for Hugh’s Plastics for 2 years o Loaded trucks • �Also had a part-time job as a caretaker for John Stubbleson (?), who was considered the wealthiest man in St. Joseph (25:19) Marriage • Had a wonderful social life • Married twice • First time for 13 years and then divorced (no children) • Second time for 10 years and then divorced o Has one 9 year old daughter who comes and visits every other weekend (27:10) Other Jobs • Came to Grand Rapids in the early 1980s with his first wife • Became head custodian for Park Congregational Church for 7 years o Davis was there when the huge fire broke out o If Davis hadn’t closed everything up as he always did, the fire would have been MUCH worse o The fire was caused by arson; someone broke into the church • Became custodian in the Grand Rapids Public Schools for 15 years • Later, served on the Chamber of Commerce as a Supervisor of grounds keeping for 4 years • In 2005, got sick and came to the Veteran’s Home (30:35) How Service Affected His Life • Davis said that he got to see parts of the world he otherwise would have probably never seen. • � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Davis, Wayne Keith (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Davis, Wayne Keith Description An account of the resource Wayne Keith Davis is a Veteran who served in the United States Army during peacetime from the late 1970s to the late 1980s in Germany and in the United States. Born in 1957, Davis talks about his childhood growing up in Benton Harbor and his summers spent in Alabama visiting his grandparents. In Alabama, Davis remembers facing segregation and also selling peanuts at his grandpa's barber shop. Upon enlisting, Davis went to Supply School in Virginia and then was flown to Germany where he became a member of the 42nd Medical Company. After spending his four year term in Germany, Davis returned to the United States and served in the Reserve for another six years as a member of the military police. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-03-14 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DavisW Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1282cebb72d25fa64552b1b73cbf368b.mp4 6403ee7e8c78c27cc64dd9b5c2f5ddeb https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5927de4e44d279e1440b67f6a1b198c9.pdf ae65d69d5d218473352eb025c2037942 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Phil Davis Vietnam War Total Time: 08:38 Active Duty (00:40) • • • • Was in I Corps sector, in Northern Vietnam. Was a pilot in the Air Force. Joined the Air Force at the age of specifically because of the draft. Was in Kentucky when his service ended, and he remembers being very happy. Post War (5:30) • • Got a job when he got back to the United States, and tried to get back into education but by the time he would have been able to take advantage of the GI bill he was entrenched into his job. Joined the American Legion 20 years after he returned. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Davis, Phil (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Davis, Phil Description An account of the resource Phil Davis served in the Air Force during the Vietnam War. He joined the Air Force because of his low draft number, and he was sent to Vietnam and served in the I Corps sector as a pilot. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Vanloon, Danielle (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Air Force Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-05-26 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DavisP Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/581eab3f0456f5e843234a1f5b785825.mp4 2b140f69bdc7dbaf8056daaecedfc08d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0077ea3343d784fa24765bcf66945fd5.pdf ab521396eb9069bf10bf044e233a4c64 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW KEN DAVID Born: January 1950, Gerard, Ohio Resides: Niles, Ohio Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, October 26, 2012 Interviewer: Can you start us off with some background on yourself, where and when were you born for instance? I was born in January of 1950 in the small town of Gerard and currently living in Niles. Interviewer: Did you grow up in Gerard? Yes, I grew up in Gerard. Interviewer: What did your family do for a living then? My mom was a housewife, she was a stay home mom, and my dad worked. Interviewer: What kind of a job did he have? He was a machinist Interviewer: Was he working in sort of a factory or repair shop? Yes, in factories, yes Interviewer: How many kids were in the family? I have a brother and two sisters. Interviewer: Did you go to public schools there? Yes, public school and public high school. 1:04 Interviewer: When did you graduate from high school? I graduated in 1968 and got drafted in 1969. Interviewer: What did you do between graduation and when you got drafted? 1 �I was recruited by the state of Ohio Highway Department and I worked in the centrifuge on black top plants, testing black top. Interviewer: How did you wind up with that? They came to the school and they went through certain records and they picked like seven of us and they hired two of us. Interviewer: Now, in your school, did most kids, at that point, not go to college? Most of them went to college. Interviewer: They did go to college. The ones that did not go to college got drafted. Interviewer: At the time that you got drafted, how much did you know about the war in Vietnam or what was going on over there? Nothing—they never talked about it in school. Interviewer: You didn’t see stuff in TV? 2:04 I didn‟t even know where it was. Interviewer: But you were aware of the draft though? Oh yes Interviewer: And were you expecting that sooner or later they would catch up with you? Yes Interviewer: Once you do get drafted then, take us through the process. You get your notice and then what do you do? 2 �I had to go downtown; they put us on a bus and took us to the Cleveland regional office. All day physical and that was the first time, you passed or failed, and we got on the bus and came home and waited for the next notice to come and report. Interviewer: When people went in for the physical, were there people who tried to find ways to beat the system? Yes, there were many, many. Some protested religiously, some wore sheets; some poured actual packets of water in the urine test. 3:10 Some acted up, and they just called the MP‟s, they hauled them across the hall and told them they were Marines and everybody calmed right down. Interviewer: People tried stuff, but it didn’t work? No, soap under the armpits to get their blood pressure up, it was all kinds of things. Interviewer: But you didn’t pull any of that stuff yourself? No, no need to. Interviewer: So, basically you were willing to go, and figured your country calls you have to go? Yes Interviewer: So, how long did you have to wait around before you got your instructions on reporting for basic? Not long Interviewer: Where did they send you for basic training? They sent me to Fort Campbell, Kentucky, for August and September, and from there I went to Fort Polk, Louisiana until January. 4:04 Interviewer: All right, describe what basic training consisted of at Fort Campbell? 3 �They told us from day one that we were all going to a country called Vietnam, and they taught us everything to be able to survive from the basics to the most extreme. Interviewer: So, they were actually teaching you about conditions in Vietnam or trying to? They were, like I told the doctors before, they were programing us. In basic training they broke us down both physically and mentally, so we would react to different commands from our drill sergeants and once they got to that point we were functioning just like a group of, not boys anymore, but people following orders and not thinking about what the orders are, just reacting. 5:07 Interviewer: Now, how easy or how hard was it for you to make the adjustment to that? It was very hard, you come out of high school, you‟re all smiles and happy go lucky and then they‟re trying to get you into an environment that is hostile, if you looked the wrong way you‟re dead, if you act the wrong way, you‟re dead, and they really prepared us mentally. Interviewer: Now, were there—did you push back with the training, or did you just try to work with it the best you could? I did the best I could in whatever they were trying to teach us. Interviewer: Did you have people who were trying to resist, argue or fight back? Yes Interviewer: How does that play out, what kind of things would they do? 6:00 4 �They would recycle them. They would start them off in another training brigade as day one, and those who couldn‟t cope the second time around, most of them got a hardship discharge, unsuitable for the military. Interviewer: What proportion of the guys that you started out training with kind of finished the basic training on schedule? The majority of them Interviewer: Physically what kind of condition were you in when you went in? Nineteen years old. Basic physical health, but after basic training your mind was equipped to take on five Marines and beat them. Interviewer: Did you build up your physical strength or endurance as a trainee? Does the physical training do that or were you in pretty much the shape you needed to be already? No, the guys that were a little bit overweight, they went through more PT training, and for the rest of us, every day was the same routine to build up our endurance. 7:11 Interviewer: Now the guys that were teaching you, were they guys who had been to Vietnam or were they just drill instructors? We had one drill instructor that was in Vietnam, was wounded and came back to be an instructor. The rest of them, they‟re going through training just like the rest of us, in preparation of going over, and they were all sergeants. Interviewer: So they had been through the NCO training at this point and not rotated over yet. Okay, then you go to Fort Polk for AIT, that’s your next stop. Physically what was Fort Polk like or that area like? 5 �As the bus pulled in there were big signs called Tiger Land, and it was more God's country, open. 8:03 More physical training, more weapons training, escape invasion training, they started feeding us a hardboiled egg and a piece of toast for breakfast to shrink our stomachs in preparation for what was coming. Interviewer: Did they have forests or swampy areas around for you to train in? Yes, it was all wetlands, and a lot of times they would take us out and give us degrees and you had to find your way back, and it was all nasty and dirty. Interviewer: Were there problems with alligators or snakes and things like that? I didn‟t see any, no Interviewer: Now, the men who were training you at this level, had more of them been to Vietnam at this point? The same way, some were and some weren‟t. 9:00 Interviewer: Did they try to give you any kind of training in terms of how to deal with civilian populations, or populated areas, or was this just all out in the swamps? It was military vs. military Interviewer: About how long did this last? It was another eight weeks or ten weeks. Interviewer: What kind of MOS did you come out with? Eleven Charlie, which is a mortar, but they also trained us on the M16, the M14, the M60, LAWs, they gave it all to us. My specialty was the mortars, but when we got to Vietnam it was an infantry rifle. 6 �Interviewer: It’s what you’d need when you got there. When you complete AIT, do they let you go homer before sending you overseas, or do you get a post in the states first? 10:04 They asked for those who wanted to go to jump school, they could go to jump school and the other ones could go home for five days before going to California to be shipped out. Interviewer: Which option did you take? I went home for five days. Interviewer: what was it like to go home and know that you’re going off to Vietnam next? My family was sad, but I knew that I had to do what I had to do. Interviewer: Physically, how did they get you out to Vietnam? What was the process? From California they put us on a United commercial jet with stewardesses and meals, and flew us to Hawaii and then to Guam, another island, and then on to Vietnam. Interviewer: What was that atmosphere in the plane going over? Was this a chartered one for the military? Yes Interviewer: What was it like on that plane? 11:02 I passed out and didn‟t wake up until we got to Hawaii. My buddy nest to me said they couldn‟t wake me up, but I was emotionally drained because we were on the plane for twenty three hours and going over in your mind—you don‟t know what to expect. At nineteen years old I had been trained to kill people and am I going to be able to shoot somebody? 7 �Interviewer: What was you first impression of Vietnam when you got off the plane? It was hitting a brick wall as you stepped off the plane because you were so conditioned to the air conditioning on the plane. We landed in January and it was like walking into the twilight zone. Interviewer: Where did you land in Vietnam? 12:00 Bien Hoa Interviewer: You get off the plane and what do they do with you? They just put us in formation, called off the names and assigned you to a company. I remember doing KP, and then they shipped us off to what they call SERTS training for a week. Our instructors wore black hats, we lived in hooches. We were fenced in and during the day they would take us outside the wire on patrols, trying to prep us for when they put us in the real jungle. Interviewer: What kinds of things do they want you to learn, or what sort of preparation are you getting? Follow orders and if they say “stop”, you freeze, no question. Interviewer: Did they teach you how to spot booby traps and things like that? 13:07 Most of that was done in training. There was more that they showed us there that was on the job training more or less. Interviewer: Are they still focusing on just dealing with enemy military forces as opposed to people in civilian areas or things like that? They told us that where they were going to send us was strictly regular NVA army. Interviewer: Did you at this point, know what unit you were going to join? 8 �No Interviewer: But they had some idea? They had it all mapped out. When we finished out search, I remember, they put me and somebody else on a helicopter took us out in the jungle, and that‟s when I met my Lieutenant and graded myself on target. 14:07 Interviewer: What unit did they assign you to? I was in the 2nd platoon, Delta [Company], 1st [Battalion] of the 506th [Regiment]. Interviewer: In the 101st Airborne. 101st Airborne, Air Mobile, Air Assault Interviewer: Where were they based at the time you joined them? At Camp Evans, which was up north in the high country, and the first month we just patrolled the low land. About two months later we hit the A Shau Valley. Interviewer: Let’s talk about that first part first. They take you up—the helicopter—did they take you to Camp Evans or did they take you to a smaller place where your company was or how did that work? From Bien Hoa, from the airport, they put us on a Chinook, there was a bunch of us, and flew us up north, got off at Camp Evans, and from there they assigned. 15:06 Interviewer: Was your company at Camp Evans when you got there? They were in the field. Interviewer: Did you wait for them to come back from the field? No, they took me out. Interviewer: How did you get you out? By Helicopter 9 �Interviewer: So they fly you out, you go in and you join the company. What sort of a reception do you get when you get there? “Your cherry is here, you‟re blood.” Interviewer: Once you joined them, did anybody make an effort to kind of explain to you what was going on or give you any advice on what to do? The ones that I met at that time, they try to help you out, they tell you where to go, and the squad leader points you in more directions. Interviewer: Do you remember going out on patrol with them for the first time? Yes Interviewer: What was that like, or what do you remember about it? 16:00 They kept saying, “This is the real thing”. Interviewer: What was the country like that you were patrolling in? Was it open country or grassland? It was open grassland with little hills on it. Interviewer: When you were moving, were you going just as a squad, or platoon, or whole company? As the 2nd platoon Interviewer: About how many men were in the platoon when you joined it? I don‟t remember that, but there was there were about eighteen or twenty of us when we got shot up the last time. Interviewer: Do you remember how big your squad was when you joined that? I would say we had four squads, and maybe five or six in a squad. 10 �Interviewer: And when you go out, initially, where did they put you in the squad? Did they make you walk point right away, or the rear, or in the middle someplace? 17:04 Just—they had their point men already trained and they just put you in line somewhere. Interviewer: When you move through that open country, how far apart would you be normally? We were five or six feet. Interviewer: Now, were there trails in those places, or would you just walk in the grass or what? Our sergeant—from our sergeant we set off the trails. Trails always end up in an ambush, so we made our own trails. Interviewer: On that first patrol did you have any kind of contact? No contact, we saw them, but we had no contact. Interviewer: Now, when you were at Camp Evans, based at Camp Evans, did you spend time camped out overnight outside of the perimeter, at times, or were you just mostly inside of it at night? 18:03 The whole time I was there I night have slept on a cot three times. It was strictly all jungle. We would go out thirty-five or forty-five days and come back in. Interviewer: How long were you at Camp Evans before you started doing that? From the time I got to Evans and went through, I would guess it a week of KP duty, and a week on certs and then right out in the jungle. Interviewer: You get up there, and talk about SERTS, was this the training we talked about or was this another level of training? 11 �This was training in country, which were the procedures they wanted us to follow in country. Interviewer: Was this specific to the 101st? Yes Interviewer: All right, but once that’s done they’re pretty quickly sending you out into the jungle areas as opposed to—because you’re talking about going through grass and the hills. How long were you doing that? 19:12 I guess maybe a month or a month and a half. Interviewer: While you were doing that were you sleeping out in the field? Oh yes Interviewer: So, at night what would you do? We would set up in a perimeter. There were two guys in a squad and one would sleep and one would stay awake, and then they would shift back and forth all night. Interviewer: When you set up a perimeter, what kind of defenses would you have? We would set up the claymores, and the trip flares in front of us in case something did happen to sneak in. Interviewer: But, they’re not bringing in concertina wire or things like that? No, that was only on the fire support bases. Interviewer: Would you dig in at all? Sometimes we would, and sometimes, if the vegetation was high enough, just--- 20:09 Interviewer: Did the enemy try to probe those perimeters at all, or did they ever shoot mortars at you, or things like that? Yes, many times, like when we were in the valley. Satchel charges, mortars. 12 �Interviewer: But, were they doing it around Evans? No, that was pretty much quiet. Interviewer: Then when they tell you that you’re heading off into the jungle now, and you’re going to head off, did the veteran guys in the unit say, “Ok, this is going to be different or harder, or did you just go? We just went. Interviewer: How did they get you out of there? By helicopter again Interviewer: Were you going to an established firebase or a new LZ, what was it? It could just be an open spot in the jungle. It could be a regular fire support base that was leaving another company. 21:12 They told us very little, they just threw us on and dropped us off. Interviewer: Do you remember sort of going out into the jungle the first time, the first of those trips out, or do they all run together now? They all run together, and once you go to the first one they‟re all the same. Some are hotter, some are quiet. Interviewer: Describe, a little bit, the country you’re operating in now, the jungle terrain, physically what does it look like to you as you’re going through it? Lowlands, there were creeks, wetlands, grass, and our feet were always wet, and at night you always change your socks and put the other ones around your neck until they fried the next day, leaches, and when we got to the mountains, in the valley, the rains were cold at night and you could see your breath. 22:08 The rain lasted a long time and you were just miserable. 13 �Interviewer: Did you have any way to keep yourselves dry? Did you have ponchos? Our policy was, we didn‟t take ponchos because they made too much noise. The dinks would hear the noise and they would come. All we had was tropical blankets. Interviewer: Now, when you would—how long would you be out there on patrol at one time? How long were you away from the base? The first time was thirty some days. We came in for a day, got resupplied, showered and shaved and went back out the next day, and that was forty-five days. We came back in and the last time was--- 23:07 Interviewer: Now was there a sort of routine when you’re out on one of these long patrols out in the jungle, what happens day to day? You try to be quiet; you can hear somebody talking a long, long way away. No noise, no animals, just quiet. I had the answer on the radio as low as it would go, wrapped in a towel, and tied, trying to keep the noise down. Interviewer: So were you working as an RTO then? Yes, when my Lieutenant's radio man went to the Captain to be his radio man, they asked me to walk point or carry the radio. I said, “This is a no brainer, give me the radio”. There again, they gave us radio class training also. Interviewer: How heavy was the radio? Too heavy, and we had trouble with the batteries. 24:04 They made me carry two extra batteries because they would just go dead all of a sudden. Interviewer: Now, were these radios that had big, long antennas on them, or did you have a short antenna? 14 �In the beginning I had a big, long, flimsy antenna, and then I got a better antenna, that they sent me that was shorter. Interviewer: At certain points the RTO’s were targets for snipers, or anybody, and those big long antennas were a giveaway. Yes, I carried mine wrapped down and it was tied on, so I tried to conceal it. Interviewer: So, you were the RTO for your platoon leader then? Yes Interviewer: How early on did you get that assignment? Probably after a month, I‟m guessing. Interviewer: So, basically most of the time you’re walking around in the jungle carrying the radio? Yes, communicating with the other squads and the Captain. 25:09 Interviewer: Alright and when you moved through a jungle area, how would you go about doing that? Would you still stay off the trails or would you have to use them sometimes? We stayed off the trails. The trails were nothing but trouble. Interviewer: Were there other units that were using them and getting into trouble? Ambushes, yes Interviewer: But, if you’re going through jungle, aren’t you having to cut your way through with machetes or something? Sometimes, and sometimes you‟re just pulling and working your way through. If we did a click a day we were happy. 15 �Interviewer: So, in order to keep fairly quiet, you can’t just be chopping away hard on a scale like that? No Interviewer: Would you move by day or by night? By day, and as it was getting dark we always set up for nighttime. Interviewer: When you set up for nighttime, were you setting up as a company or a platoon? 26:08 As a platoon, even though the company was assigned to a certain region, each platoon had its own place to setup for the night and we got those from the Captain. Interviewer: As you prepare to setup for the night, what are the steps you take, or what happens there as you get ready for the overnight? If the ground is pure rock, we dug in the best we could, set our flares and claymores, in preparation for the long night to come. Interviewer: How often did you have contact then, whether by day or by night? Once we got in the valley and the mountains with the regular army, it seemed like every day. 27:03 Interviewer: Would you see much of them during the day or sometimes find them, or mostly at night when they came after you? Sometimes you would see them crossing, if you were high enough in the mountains, and most of the time they came after us at night. Interviewer: Did they have a standard procedure for doing that? They hit us with satchel charges first and then come in. 16 �Interviewer: How big was one of these satchel charges? Did you ever see one that hadn’t blown up? Yes, I was throwing them back at them at one point. Interviewer: How close would they have to be to throw them? The ones that we found, that didn‟t go off, were so big, so square, two inches square, six inches big, they were yellow dynamite with a blasting cap that they pulled that starts the fuse, wrapped in plastic. 28:13 Some of them were more sophisticated, but it would take your arm off or your leg off. Interviewer: Now, they throw those first—were they pretty much sort of throwing those blind in your general direction? Did they target individual foxholes? No, they kind of knew where everybody was setting up for the night, most of the time. Sometimes they would just throw them and get lucky and most of them that came in took somebody out. Interviewer: After they throw the satchel charges, what happens next? By this time we‟re all returning fire, except for the last battle, they just kept coming. Interviewer: The ones before the last battle then, are they just kind of testing you to see what happens? Yes 29:07 Interviewer: Then you fire, and if you’re firing then, can they see your gun flashes or things like that and know where you are? We used tracers going out. Interviewer: It would seem to me if they’re usually getting somebody effectively, were you constantly losing men? 17 �Yes Interviewer: Would you get replacements sent out to you in the field, or would you just keep getting smaller and smaller? We kept getting smaller and smaller and when they got replacements in the rear, they came out in a chopper. Interviewer: How long did it take—by the time you went out into the jungle, did you already feel like you were part of the unit and knew what you were doing, or did you still feel like the new guy at that point? After about thirty days you weren‟t the new guy anymore. 30:01 Interviewer: By the time you’re in the jungle, you’re at least part of the squad or the platoon at this point, and know who those guys are? Yes Interviewer: So, when they do bring in the replacements to your unit, did you have anything to do with them or try to help them? No, once I became the Lieutenant's radio man I stuck with the Lieutenant and the sergeant, we were always in communication. Interviewer: Did you work well with the Lieutenant? Yes, up to a point. When the Captain got ambushed one night the radio man lost his leg and died of a heart attack a couple of days later at the hospital, my Lieutenant, Fletcher, he turned on me, got real cold. We had a confrontation one night and that‟s when he broke down and he said he got real close with his first radio man and it tore him up when he died. 31:05 He didn‟t get close to me and I understood why and I said, “You be what you have to be”. 18 �Interviewer: It wears on the officers as much as anybody. Yes, the stress, I didn‟t care if he was an officer or not, if you have a problem, talk to me. Interviewer: So, you have a period there of several months when you’re spending a lot of time going on these long patrols. Go in, take some losses, get some probing attacks etc. Now, did you, at that time, conduct any operations that seemed to be successful, or doing what they were supposed to be doing? Were you able to ambush them, or make trouble for them? At certain times we go and ambush sites, nothing ever happened. It was always daytime skirmishes, or at nighttime for sure. 32:06 Interviewer: In a daytime skirmish, how would that play out? They would hit and run. We‟d send a little patrol out, they would hit at them, but they would hide. Interviewer: How much to you actually see of them, at least before the final fight? During the day very little except when they would sneak, and they had tunnels everywhere. Interviewer: Did you ever uncover tunnels or bunkers, or find any of those? Yes, we found a—we came around the bottom of a mountain, on a little higher ground, and there was a bunker complex, highly sophisticated for a company of a larger size. They had a latrine all bamboo lashed, but they weren‟t there. 33:12 A lot of, lot of bunkers, and they were setup at a good ambush site to protect the people inside. Interviewer: Except, they weren’t there when you got there? No, they had moved on. 19 �Interviewer: When you find a bunker complex like that, what happens, do you call in somebody to blow it up? We go through all the hooches with what we have, and we didn‟t blow anything up on this one, we just moved in, investigated, and moved out. Interviewer: Now, as the Lieutenant's radio operator, do you have any better idea of what’s going on, or what you’re supposed to be doing, or is it still mostly mysterious? As far as our missions, it was—people in the rear knew what we were doing. 34:06 They would send us out there to patrol the area and we just had to relay what we„d find, and so forth, back. Interviewer: Now, when you did make contact of one kind or another, or come under attack at night, Were you able to call in air support or artillery support? Yes, one time we called in fighters for us and they dropped napalm. Helicopters came out, airships came out, artillery, mortar support, and most of it was all there. I had all the frequencies to go to, to ask for support. Interviewer: Now, when the Vietnamese would attack you, what kind of fire power did they have besides their satchel charges? They would have their AK47‟s, and the last battle they hit us with machine guns, tear gas, they hit us with it all when we come in and landed. 35:11 Interviewer: Now, before you’re in the last battle, you’re going on patrols etc. How are you getting supplies? As we ran low, we called in resupply. I never set numbers on the radio. We had a “nasty shackle”, and a “nasty shackle” was just a dirty word for zero to nine. I would say “nasty 20 �shackle” like “alpha, “bravo”, which gave them a number of what we had left and they would set up a resupply and a helicopter would come out. Interviewer: Would you sometimes make a hole in the canopy for them to come through, or would you have open places for them to land? 36:03 Sometimes they would fly by and drop us cases of C4, det cord, and then we would set up a site big enough and we would blow one charge and the helicopter would come in before the dust settled and either get us out or give us what we needed and move out quick. Interviewer: But, the idea was to do it quickly because there were bad guys in the area. Yes, they would hear the noise and they would come. Interviewer: Now, did you have situations on these patrols where the helicopters were coming under fire anyway? Yes, at one point as the helicopters were coming out, they were getting shot down. Interviewer: Did you have some of those missions that were aborted because of that? Yes, we were already in the jungle, we had low water, low ammo, and finally a helicopter made it through. Interviewer: Were you also getting medevac’s coming in and taking out your wounded as they got hit? Only if the weather was good 37:06 For a night attack, they wouldn‟t come in. We had a guy, he had a big white dot on his helicopter, he was a ghost rider, and he came in, we were in the mountains, we were socked in, and a guy was dying, he had to go, and this guy came out and we talked him in by the side of the mountain, the echo. He came 21 �straight down and you couldn‟t see in front of you from the fog and mist and everything, so he shut her down and he said, “I‟m only shutting her down for ten minutes and if it doesn‟t clear, I‟, out of here. We loaded him up, and he waited, and ten minutes later he fired up and he said, “I‟m going straight up and if the echo doesn‟t sound right let me know”. The guy did survive. 38:06 Interviewer: So, you had some good pilots? Yes, we had some good pilots. We had some pilots that were afraid, but the majority of the pilots were good and that‟s why we‟re here. Interviewer: Now, were there occasions where they could bring you extra supplies or better food, or things like that, or drop in a case of beer, or did that not happen when you were out there? I can remember times when they would resupply us there would be an ammo canister with a plastic bag and it had either hot rice, or maybe spaghetti, but that wasn‟t too often. Interviewer: Occasional hot food, but that’s pretty much it. Yes Interviewer: What do you do for water when you’re out there, do you drink out of streams, or do you just--I‟d carry a quart and a half gallon canteen. 39:00 In the mountains the streams were pure, clean, and we would dump out the water they would send us, it was nasty, and we‟d drink from the streams. Interviewer: What are you doing for food at that point? We had our C rations. Occasionally we‟d get a dehydrated meal, but most of it was C‟s. 22 �Interviewer: When you got back to base camp after being out for a month, or whatever, than what was the process there? We‟d leave our ruck at the pad, take our M16 and walk down to the barber shop, and get a shave and a haircut. Interviewer: Did they use Vietnamese barbers? Yes, we had Vietnamese barbers on base. 40:01 Interviewer: Did you wonder about them at all? I said, “They‟re going to kill me with a straight razor, and they‟re going to do it here or in the jungle”. Interviewer: Would there be a lot of Vietnamese working on the bases during the day? I don‟t know Interviewer: Now there long enough to know? Not there long enough to find out what‟s going on. Interviewer: Would they issue you new fatigues when you go in? We had a bunch of fatigues I our duffle bags and we would just throw the ones we had on away and grab a new set. At one point they actually sent us out clean fatigues, but with different names you know, but they were clean. Interviewer: So, you have a certain kind of regular routine or pattern that you follow at times, but then the last patrol you go out on that’s the one that gets really ugly? Very ugly 23 �Interviewer: Take us through that patrol the best you can. You’re going out and what happens? 41:04 The last battle? Interviewer: Yes, how long are you out there in the field before that battle actually happens this time? We took off from a fire support base. It was a company assault, there were twenty one helicopters, and at least six guys in each helicopter. The helicopter would come in, land, and we would load up and take off. As you kept flying a big circle until we were leaded and we took off for an abandoned fire support base. The gun ships were on the first helicopter and on the way in they fired their rockets just to prep the area, and then the first helicopter landed. The helicopter I was on was the last to land. They started shooting at us, so we would pop red smoke, the other ones detoured away. 42:07 Our medic was on the other side of the helicopter, and he took a chest wound as he was getting off. They hit us with machine guns, tear gas, and it was a very, very hot LZ. The sergeants in charge and the squad leaders, we set up a very fast perimeter, we took care of business and they kind of folded back. The other helicopters came in, we made a big perimeter on top of the old mountain and that night it was quiet. That‟s was on may 5th, and on May 6th I did some patrolling on the bottom. 43:00 The one patrol that Greg was in, they were going up the hill and the dink jumped up. They had no place to go, and Roger, who was on point, he just fell back, and as he rolled back he took an AK in the rump, it wasn‟t a death wound, but it hurt like hell. That night, on May 6th, it was quiet until about two or three o‟clock in the morning and then they hit us. Our 2nd platoon was 24 �the only one on the mountain at this time, the other ones had all moved off, and the mountain top was too big for us to secure, we were spaced that far. 44:01 Interviewer: Were you spaced all around the clearing or just in one end of it? We were in a circle, somewhat, we were spaced that far, not closer like we normally did. The position to the left of me popped a grenade, minutes before I just asked for a sitrep [situation report], and everybody gave me their sitrep. Then I heard the grenade pop, he sat up and then it was the 4th of July. He took a—there was a dink right in front of him and when he sat up he gave away his position. He took a full mag, either AK or M16, the position to the right of me, they were dead, and the position to the right of them, they were already dead. 45:04 They had crawled in and slit their throats. Satchel charges were coming in everywhere and going off, they counted twenty some charges that didn‟t go off around me. At one point I was looking down at the top of the mountain, watching the battle and didn‟t understand what was happening. I kept saying, “I got to get back and help them, I got to get back and help them”. Interviewer: So, where are you relative to the rest of the men in the platoon at this point? You had your circle and part of it got broken into. They came up our side. It was me, sarge, Lieutenant, we were on this part of the mountain here, and we had people to right, people to the left and all the way around the circle. 46:09 it was basically sheer rock coming up this way and sheer rock here, but that‟s the side he decided to come up. Moments after the battle started the sergeant‟s weapon jammed; he grabbed the radio off me, and went to the center of the circle. When I came to, I still had my hand on my weapon. I took care of business, they were close, 25 �they were closer to me than you are right now, whether they were getting ready to pick my body I don‟t know, but I took care of business. Interviewer: So, were you knocked out by concussion from a blast? Probably for the satchel charges at that point, many of them. 47:01 Interviewer: Ok, but did you remember the sergeant taking your radio? No Interviewer: So, basically— When I came to—sarge said, in the hospital, that I was out for a long time. When I came to, my ear drums were gone, I heard nothing. I saw those dinks looking at me every time a charge would go off, and I did what I had to do. At this time I realized the sarge wasn‟t next to me, the lieutenant was lifeless, and every time a flash would go off I‟d see a new face. I had a basic lead M16 with twenty-one magazines and carried an extra seven. Sarge kept yelling, “Go help little David, they‟re all dead”, and I realized I was the only one left of basically on half a perimeter circle. 48:04 Finally Greg, who was the “thumper man”, grenadier, he said, “Got to do something‟, so he came running. As he was running toward sarg, he was running into the dinks. The thumper has to make seven revolutions to be armed on the warhead, and they were going right through the dinks. In the hospital they asked Sims, “What did you do?” He said, “I got dinks up there with holes in them”, well they didn‟t explode, so they went through them. To sarg he got some and from sarg to me he got more. Interviewer: Did they know where you were? You were firing, so they guessed that was you, at that point? Yes. We always made sure where our positions were before the lights went out. 49:03 26 �Interviewer: did you stay in your position then and just fire from there, or did you try to move and get to where the sergeant was? I stayed there because if I would have left, nobody would have made it. Then finally Greg made it to me, a dink jumped up real close, shot an RPG, it went between us, it exploded behind us, we both received shrapnel and as Greg was thumping his thumper he got shot in the side. He went down, but we held that part of the perimeter. Daylight came and the 3rd platoon was at the bottom of the hill on another little knoll, and as they made their way, when the battle started, they got ambushed, so it took them a while to take care of the ambush. 50:05 They finally made their way to us at daylight, and as they came up the backside, over to us, the sergeant came running over to help me my position with Greg. He got shot, I carried him back and that‟s when one of the medics was there and said, “You‟re not going anywhere soldier, stay here”, and that‟s when other people from the 3rd platoon---at one point Greg called in a flare ship, he can‟t hear, his eardrums are bleeding, he‟s screaming for help, and at one point the first flare ship out landed right behind me. I didn‟t even know. I was either out or I was too busy doing what I had to do. 51:00 The intense—when the doc told me I was wounded, that‟s when I said “ouch‟. Up to that point I had no idea I was wounded. The adrenalin was pumping so much that I had no pain. Interviewer: Was this shrapnel from the RPG? From the RPG, yes, and my back was peppered, I‟m sure it looked like a screen. Interviewer: At some point do they medevac you out of there? As everything got secured more, they called in for the medevacs, and they loaded up the guys that were the worst and then on the last helicopter out there was myself, Greg, sarge 27 �we called Greek, and our forward observer who called in the—we finally got a forward observer, he had direct contact with the artillery in the rear for our position, for fire. 52:05 Interviewer: So, were you able to get---how close in do they call for artillery in that situation, practically on top of you? We popped our flares in front of us as the gun ships were coming in, so they wouldn‟t go beyond a certain point. When the flares ran out we lit our C4 and popped it in front of us, so they had some kind idea of how far to come in. Interviewer: Now, were you doing that while you were in your original position at night? Yes, and I would jump from my hole to the sarge‟s hole. It was all rock, so the holes weren‟t that deep, but as the charges would come in I would jump and they would go off. Interviewer: So, you would go back and forth between those and not just stay in one place and wait for them. No Interviewer: While you’re doing all that, how long of time do you think this took, the fire fight you’re in, five hours or not? 53:05 From the time it started, on the Intel report, I think it lasted like three hours. During that time we had no recollection. It wasn‟t, in fact, until I applied for the intelligence reports that we actually knew what happened, and why it happened. The Generals in the rear knew that there was a battalion of NVA in our area where our company was held, but they didn‟t tell us that. 28 �Interviewer: And they targeted, specifically, your platoon, and the ambushed another one. Was there a 3rd platoon in the company out there somewhere? The 3rd platoon was at the bottom of the hill. Interviewer: Right, and what was your platoon? We were the 2nd platoon. Interviewer: Where was the 1st platoon? The 1st platoon, I have no recollection. They were out there somewhere. Interviewer: When you’re in that kind of situation, are you just kind of reacting automatically or do you have some kind of survival sense, and do you not even know why you did what you did? 54:02 You just do what they trained you to do. Interviewer: Now, you survived this, do they take you—do you go back to Evans or where do you go? They took us to an aid station, from the aid station they flew us to—they flew ne to 67 evac, and I met Greg and Greek at the hospital. Interviewer: Where was that? In Nam, close to Camp Evans Interviewer: So, it’s still at that area? That same area, yes Interviewer: How long were you in the hospital? Every day they would, after they stabilized me and did what they had to do, every day they would work me closer to Cam Ranh Bay, which was in the southern part, and I got 29 �shot up on May 7th, and I was home, back in the states for Memorial Day. 55:07 I spent four months in the hospital. Interviewer: What hospital were you in then in the states/ I ended up at Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, in the veterans hospital. Interviewer: After all of that, do you get discharged, or do you still have time left? I had a year left. They trained me for four months, I was off, I was five months in the hospital, I had a little less than a year to go, well eleven months. When I was discharged from the hospital they told me I was a clerk and they sent me to Fort Dix, New Jersey. Interviewer: Was that where you spent the rest of your time? Yes, the rest of my year. Interviewer: What did you do there? What was life like then in the last year? 56:00 It was hard readjusting from the hospital right back to civilian life. Military life stateside, it was—people around me, they didn‟t want to talk about it or listen about it. You know, I kept everything inside. You still had your quirks from nam, noises, didn‟t trust people, etc. Interviewer: What was the actual work you were doing there? I was in charge of the National Guard, crybabies that wanted to go home before their training was over. Interviewer: Were you just processing their paperwork? Just paperwork and record keeping to make sure their records were up to snuff. Interviewer: Was this just a nine to five sort of job? Basically 30 �Interviewer: Did you live on the base? I lived on the base, still had duties to company, KP, they assigned me to a burial detail. 57:03 They started one up because of the boys coming back. People were requesting military funerals I did five of those and I told the old man, “I can‟t do this anymore”. Interviewer: What proportion of the men around you, that you had been working with, had been to Vietnam already? I would say half. Interviewer: Did you guys talk to each other, or did you just kind of stay in your own? We stayed in our own perimeters. Interviewer: Were there things you could do to blow off steam or relive tension? Did you go into New York, or do anything like that? No, I kind of stayed low and did my time. Interviewer: Were you communicating with family during this time? Yes Interviewer: What were you telling them? What were you saying to them? That everything was fine and don‟t worry. 58: 03 When I got to the hospital they made us write a letter, and when mom got it, it was in a nice clean envelope and she wouldn‟t open it, she thought something happened because all her other mail, guys would give it to me and I would put it in a paper sack, but it was dirty fingerprints on most of the letters. You know, they got dirty. When the helicopter came out, I made sure the mail bag got on the helicopter to go back. 31 �Interviewer: When you were out there in the field, in Vietnam, how often would you write? Once a month Interviewer: Were you getting stuff from home? Occasionally you would get a care package and they would send it out and you would share it with the people with you. Interviewer: Were you able to tell the people at home what to send? Did you send any requests back? Yes, I sent a request back for my dad to send me a sheath knife. They didn‟t give us any knives. 59:06 Salted Pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, anything with salt because the salt pills just weren‟t getting it. They packed stuff in popcorn and if there were no bugs in the popcorn when it got to us, we ate the popcorn, and cookies. Interviewer: Did you cook popcorn out in the field? It was all popped, they used it for packing. Interviewer: Oh, alright. To fill in the spaces Interviewer: Basically you family, at this point, doesn’t have any idea what it was that you were really doing while you were out there? No, they didn‟t Interviewer: So, you just kind of go through those last eleven months at Fort Dix, kind of do the job? 00:02 Just bide my time 32 �Interviewer: So, you get to the end—did anybody make any effort to get you to reenlist or anything like that? No, they had my ceremony thirty days before I got out, and the recruiting officer said, “I know you‟re not going to re-up”, and I said, “You‟re right”. Interviewer: You had your ceremony, what are you referring to? The sarge put me in for the Medal of Honor for that night, I ended up with the Distinguished Service Cross, and they included my award ceremony on base with the retirement ceremony. They had a band and refreshments, my parents came up, and the General presented me, and said that was the highest award he has ever given anybody in his career. 1:03 Interviewer: Now, did that—how did you feel about that at that time? did it mean something to you? I didn‟t even know what it was, the rank of the medal. Interviewer: But they were making all of this show over you. On some level did you appreciate that, or would you rather have been left alone then? At that point I had very mixed emotions. Why are they honoring me for the ones that got killed? Interviewer: Now, we’ve gotten you, in your story here, to the point where you’ve come to the end of your time. You’ve been given the DSC etc., and the army has figured out they are not going to get you to come back, so you get discharged then in 1971. What do you do then once you’re out? 2:08 For a while I did nothing, and then I went back with the highway department. Interviewer: Did you stay with them? 33 �No, I moved on to different jobs. I worked a while and moved on to another job. Interviewer: Were you having just a hard time adjusting to civilian life after all the stuff you went through? Yes, it was hard Interviewer: What kind of—was there any kind of support provided by the VA or anybody else? I knew of no support at all, I was on my own. I kept to myself and what little friends I had, I kept them. Interviewer: Did you have friends who were your friends before you went off and came back to? Yes, dear friends, no Interviewer: Had any of your friends gone to Vietnam too, or just you? 3:07 Just me Interviewer: Was the moving on from job to job just kind of part of it? Were you just restless or impatient with things? I tried to better myself. I got in one place and they laid me off, and I finally landed a job at a construction outfit and did paper work and I was with him for nine years. Interviewer: Did you just kind of stay with construction or did you move on? No, at that point is when I lost it and I went to counseling, and moved on with my life the best I could. Interviewer: How did you wind up involved with the Ripcord Association? 4:02 Doing research and having my brother Greg locate me, and get in touch with me. I found the sarge and the three of us started getting together and answering a lot of questions we 34 �had for forty years, and finding this happened two months after we got shot up, and a lot of people had survived us, and Maureen [the hilltop where the last fight took place was called Maureen, and the rebuilt company fought near Firebase Ripcord in July, 1970] went on Ripcord and it was good getting associated with Ripcord. We all have different stories to tell, different emotions, and met the people that replaced us. Met the people who went from Maureen to Ripcord, and what they went through, and it‟s a good healing process. 5:06 Interviewer: Are you now retired or still working? I‟m still working and planning on retiring in January. Interviewer: What kind of work are you doing now? I‟m in heating, cooking and refrigeration out of our local, back home. Interviewer: To look back on the whole thing, if you had to go through it all again, would you have gone done it, or at least accepted the draft and gone forward with it? I‟d do it tomorrow Interviewer: What do you see as the positive aspect of the experience for you? Are you in some way better or wiser for what you went through? 6:00 I appreciate life, I appreciate friends, I don‟t take things for granted, and a lot of people don‟t accept me for that. Interviewer: At this point do you know who you are? I have a real good idea of who I am, and what I‟m still capable of doing. Interviewer: Well, you have a compelling story and you tell it well, and I want to thank you for taking the time to share it with us. 35 �Thank you sir 6:38 36 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource David, Kenneth (Interview transcript and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource David, Kenneth Description An account of the resource Ken David was born in Girard, Ohio in January of 1950. He graduated from high school in 1968 and was drafted a year later. He took basic training at Ft. Campbell, Kentucky, and Infantry AIT at Ft. Polk, Louisiana, and was sent to Vietnam in the fall of 1969. He was assigned to the 2nd platoon, D/1/506th Infantry, 101st Airborne Division. His company patrolled first in the lowlands near the coast south of the DMZ for a month, then spent about six weeks in the A Shau Valley at the end of the year. They then worked in the hill country to the north and west of the A Shau, and in early May the company's perimeter was hit by sappers, who overran the positions of David's platoon. He kept on fighting through the night, and was eventually joined by one of his friends. He was badly wounded in the fight and sent back to the US, and spent the rest of his hitch as a clerk at Fort Dix, New Jersey. He received the Distinguished Service Cross for his actions in his last battle. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-10-07 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DavidK1276V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e9994c7e30fbe19fc9c476d87a8f744b.mp4 62d0be77b534e542e1d4be62c24065b4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/546c04ed563d1780c1439ca09fd84ae3.pdf dace005f7355c38cc09982008ca71bc5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Karol Darling Interviewer: James Smither Transcribed by Emilee G. Johnson, Western Michigan University Length: 26:55 James Smither: Today we’re talking with Karol Darling of Byron Center, Michigan, the interviewer is James Smither of Grand Valley State University. Mrs. Darling, can you start by telling us just a little about your own background, for instance, where were you born and where did you grow up? Karol Darling: Oh, I was born up in the little thumb of Michigan in a tiny little town called Yale. And I can’t remember just how long I lived there and then we moved. My dad was a pharmacist and so he would get transferred every now and then and the family would move. I was the oldest of 4 children. And I can remember we moved to Detroit and lived in about 3 different houses in Detroit while I was growing up. And I know when I was in the 9th grade, we lived in Muskegon, Michigan, but just for one year. And then we moved— Well, one time we lived in Pontiac, Michigan when I was young. And then when I got older 1:00 we lived in Pontiac again. And that’s where I went to high school. That’s where I lived when I got into the WAVES. James Smither: All right, let’s see, tell us a little bit about those experiences, now, when you were in Muskegon, what do you remember about being there? Because that’s a West Michigan place. Karol Darling: Well I remember fishing on the Muskegon River. My dad would come home from work and my mother’d have a picnic packed and we’d dash out to the river there and the thing I remember about that mostly was, I had this fishing pole, this bamboo pole, and I’d put that in the water and I got a fish right away and I yelled, “I got a fish! I got a fish!” And I scared all the fish away for the rest of the fishermen. And it was a catfish that I had caught. And I remember the sand dunes. Sunday when my dad had off, 2:00 we would go for a ride, and we would frequently end up at the sand dunes and then you could out and you could climb up those big sand dunes and run down. I doubt if you can do that anymore. James Smither: No, most of them are protected now. Karol Darling: That’s what I thought, but we had the fun of doing that when I was growing up. James Smither: And you were also going on the radio? �Karol Darling: Well— James Smither: Singing on the radio? Karol Darling: Yes. From the time we were fairly young, like the time I was in the 9th grade, my dad, who was quite a musician, taught us harmony. And I had a brother and two sisters. And at that time, my brother’s voice hadn’t changed, so it was me and my next youngest sister and my brother, who is just a year younger than I am. And we had this trio. And I don’t remember why, but for some reason, we sang at the radio station in Muskegon, and I think it was a supper club something or other, and we sang there, and they liked it so much, 3:00 that they wanted us to do this every week and my dad said, “No way, you’re not doing that.” So my dad didn’t want us in show business in any way. James Smither: But you’re only there for a year, so they can’t get ahold of you too badly anyway. Karol Darling: No. James Smither: And then you go back to Pontiac, now, in what year did you graduate from high school? Karol Darling: 1939. James Smither: All right. And then, what did you do once you graduated? Karol Darling: I worked at Waite’s Department Store, which is a wonderful store there, owned by Mr. Waite, and I worked in several different departments there, for— I worked there for several years. I worked in cosmetics, and then I worked in jewelry and accessories, and then they promoted me, and I went downstairs and worked with the buyer. I was like an assistant buyer, although I didn’t buy anything. But I had that title. James Smither: Now, 4:00 before Pearl Harbor, do you remember paying much attention to what was going on in the world, were you aware that there was a war going on in Europe and that sort of thing? Karol Darling: Probably vaguely, but not a lot. James Smither: Ok. Karol Darling: My life— The important things in my life probably took precedence over that. James Smither: All right, now, in some point in there, your brother joined the Marine Corps, didn’t he? �Karol Darling: Yeah, he did, when he got out of high school. The only job he could find was driving a truck and he didn’t want to do that, and there wasn’t money for him to go to college, so he joined the Marine Corps. James Smither: Was that in 1940, maybe, if he was a year younger than you, or? Karol Darling: It probably was 1940, yeah. James Smither: Ok. Now with him in the Marine Corps, did you think at all about how you might get into a war and he might get into it, or did that not really occur to you until after Pearl Harbor? Karol Darling: It didn’t occur to me until after. I don’t believe I thought much about it, I just thought it was nice that Keith had this nice uniform and that he could do something that he really wanted to do, but it wasn’t that important 5:00 in my life. James Smither: Right. Now, when Pearl Harbor happens, do you remember how you heard about that, or what you thought at the time? Karol Darling: It was a horrible feeling when that happened. We heard Roosevelt when he announced it, and we knew then that we were in a war, that they had attacked us. And I can remember very strongly hearing about that. And probably, I was at home, and I think it was a Sunday night. James Smither: It was. Karol Darling: Because I was home and I heard it on the radio and of course my brother was in the Marine Corps. We were pretty upset with that. Very upset with that. And life changed from then on too, it really changed. James Smither: What was it, you know, in what ways did life, sort of, in Michigan, in Pontiac, whatever, how did that change for you? What did you notice changing? Karol Darling: Well, all the old boyfriends were 6:00 drafted and went off to war. And I remember when I was working at Wait’s???, there weren’t any boys, and I was of dating age, but there were no boys to date. And I can remember that. So a bunch of us girls who worked at the store, on Saturday nights, we’d find a place to go. And we’d go out, you know, and have this whole table of girls out at different places, wherever you could go at night. I don’t remember much about where we went, other than we went once to have our fortune told. Over near Selfridge Field, which is an air field. James Smither: Right. �Karol Darling: Over there. And I can definitely remember that. Having my fortune told. James Smither: Now were there sort of events organized by the USO or anybody that you might get to go and meet some of the guys at the bases or things like that. Karol Darling: Oh yeah. The USO, I have a letter in my scrapbook thanking me for coming to this, and it was a dance, and we had the strict rules where 7:00 we could go to this dance, and dance with these soldiers, whoever was there. But there were strict rules, you couldn’t go outside with them, you couldn’t leave with them, you had to just go there, dance, and then that was it, and I got this thank you letter for them. And one other thing I remember is, when we, my sisters, at that time, my brother, of course, was gone, when his voice changed was when he was out of the trio and my younger sister was in. And we sang at a USO benefit in Pontiac at the high school. I have an old picture of us standing up there, singing. Our trio. So I remember the USO. James Smither: All right, now, how is it that you wound up joining the WAVES? Karol Darling: Well, I can remember, I had a friend who used to come over to the house and spend the night and we talked a lot about things, and one of the things we talked about was, they’d started the WAVES. 8:00 Thought maybe we should, maybe we should do this. And it ended up that I did do it and she didn’t. James Smither: But when did you sign up? Karol Darling: 1943. 1943. So it wasn’t too long after the war started that I signed up. James Smither: Right. Because it was pretty early in the year, I think, when you started training. Karol Darling: Mmhmm. It was. James Smither: Ok, now once you’d signed up, where did you go and what did they have you do? Karol Darling: The first place I went was Cedar Falls, Iowa. James Smither: That’s the logical place to have the Navy, I guess. Karol Darling: [laughs] Cedar Falls, Iowa! I can remember, I lived in Pontiac, and I can remember my mother and dad driving me to the train station. I had to take a train from there to Chicago, where I would meet up with whoever it was who was going to take us to Cedar Falls, were going to be, like, chaperones, or whatever. James Smither: Right. �Karol Darling: Anyway, that was my first time ever going away from home, my first time on a train. I’d never been on a train before. And I liked the train ride. And it stopped in Jackson, Michigan and picked up some other girls that stopped on the way, and I remember sitting next to this girl and I wrote down her address, her home address. Never used it, but anyway, she was joining the WAVES too. So we got to Chicago, and then there was quite a group of us that ended up in Chicago and they put us on another train, and we took that train to Cedar Falls, Iowa. We were escorted there by the officers in the Navy. And we were escorted there and there we lived, that was a teachers’ college, and we lived in a building called Bartlett Hall. 10:00 And they had us 4 to a room in bunk beds. And that’s where we learned all about the Navy and the history of the Navy and how to make a bed with square corners, and how to keep your room neat, and all the Navy language. And there we were given aptitude tests and intelligence tests and we marched everywhere we went, we learned that. And we were fitted for uniforms, cause when we first were there, we didn’t have them. And the uniforms were designed by Mainbocher???, who probably nobody will remember, but this person was famous in New York as a designer. And this person designed the uniforms. And they had to measured us, we had to go to a certain store, where they measured us, took all the measurements and then after about 2 weeks we had our uniforms. 11:00 And we marched everywhere we went. We had to do the calisthenics, we had to take all these tests, and our life was pretty regimented. James Smither: Who did they have teaching you or training you? Karol Darling: It was always women, that I remember, but women who were officers in the Navy. That’s what I remember about it. James Smither: Ok, where would they have come from? Had the Navy had a limited number of women in it already, do you think, or were they recruited just to do this? Karol Darling: I really don’t know. I just don’t know. They probably were already— Well, only nurses would have been in the Navy. I don’t know. James Smither: So but were these older women, then, or? Karol Darling: Yes, most of them were older. You had to be a college graduate in order to be an officer. So, they evidently got them from somewhere, and trained them. Cause, I don’t remember, I don’t remember any men 12:00 handling us, but my memory might not be quite that good. James Smither: Now how prepared were they—because you were in the first group of WAVES going in, right? �Karol Darling: Yes. Wherever I went we were just the first WAVES there. So it seemed to me, they were probably pretty well prepared, because, at Bartlett Hall, that had, that whole dormitory there, the students weren’t there, they had to put them somewhere else, and we took over that whole dormitory. And so that seemed like it was well-prepared. The uniforms, we had to wait 2 weeks, and I suppose if you joined the Navy later, you got a uniform right away. James Smither: Unless they were actually still measuring people for uniforms. I don’t think they usually did for the men. Karol Darling: I doubt if they were doing that. James Smither: Now, what was life like there, was it very regimented and they were just, all of your time was under their control, or? Karol Darling: It was pretty much regimented, but we did have some time, because I can remember 13:00 going out in the snow. And there were one of the students, some boy there, and I can remember, I think I have a picture of him in my scrap book, I can’t remember anything about him or his name or anything, but I think we walked together. And we did have off-duty time, some of it, where we were not that regimented. We could go for walks, we really didn’t—but I don’t remember going anywhere off that campus then, we pretty much had to stay there, but we did have some time off. I don’t remember exactly what we did on our time off. James Smither: Ok. But how many of you were in this group of WAVES, do you think? Karol Darling: Oh, I think it was over a thousand. James Smither: All at once in that college, or total around the country? Karol Darling: I’m thinking at that college. I think I have somewhere in my scrapbook, I think I have that and the figure 14:00 1,500 comes to my mind, I’m not sure if I’m right, but then…Would there have been that many in that Bartlett Hall building? It was a big building and 4 to a room. James Smither: It’s possible if there were 2 or 3 places where they were doing it, but a lot of you were certainly together there at one time. Karol Darling: Yeah, there were a lot of us were there. James Smither: Now how long do you think you were there? Karol Darling: 6 weeks. �James Smither: Ok. Karol Darling: I think I was there 6 weeks. James Smither: And after those 6 weeks, where did they send you? Karol Darling: Oh, well, during that 6 weeks, we had to take all kinds of tests and they would tell us all the different things that we could learn, so, for what we would do next. And so, I wanted to go into the airplane part of this, and they had link trainers, they had a lot of control tower, and different things that you could go involving planes. And one of them was the link trainer, and they described it, and course, I thought that would be really 15:00 nice, I’d love to do that. So you had to take special tests for that. And one of the tests I remember was going to this big auditorium and there was full of WAVES, and when it came your turn, you had to go up in front and you had a microphone and you had to answer everything, all these questions through a microphone and I think they were checking your voice to see how well it would carry, whether you could handle this. And I did get that. And so when I knew I got that, I was really, really happy. Then I went home. I believe I was home for Christmas, on leave, before I went to Atlanta, and then I left Pontiac and went to Atlanta, Georgia, which is where I trained to be a link trainer. James Smither: Ok, and how long did they have you in Atlanta? Karol Darling: I’m not sure. James Smither: Ok. A couple of months, or? Karol Darling: I think it was about a couple of months. James Smither: Now tell us a little about and what you did. 16:00 what the link trainer was and how it worked Karol Darling: The link trainer is like a small, it looks like a really small airplane. And it’s on a bellows, and it has the nose and the tail and you get in, you climb up and get into this and you have a, there’s a hood you pull the hood over. And then it’s all dark and the only thing you can see in there are the instruments in front of you, that’s all you can see. And someone sits at a desk, the trainer sits at a desk, it’s a pretty big desk and it has this piece of paper and it has what they called a crab, which was I think about that high, and you put it on the paper, and when you turn it on, you instructed the pilot what he was supposed to do, his next maneuver, and the crab then would do exactly, on this piece of paper, would do what 17:00 he did in the plane. Follow the right path or not the right path. And you had to keep �instructing them and you talked with them, on the microphone, into this link trainer. James Smither: Ok. So essentially this was a flight simulator, I guess that’s what we might call it. Karol Darling: That’s exactly what it was, yes. James Smither: And then, you were managing them. Now, did you have, what sort of did you have control over, were you just telling them what to do and the simulator sort of did the rest, or you kept track of it, or? Karol Darling: The crab kept track of exactly what they did in there, and you had to correct them if they were doing something wrong, and they had, I don’t remember what their procedures were, but there were certain procedures that they had to pass and you would probably do a pilot more than one time. I think each flight was probably about an hour, it was quite a while. And then that same pilot might come on another day, and do another hour. 18:00 And there were different procedures they had to do because, the ones I was training, were going to fly the torpedo bomber fires, the TBFs, and they were going to take off from the deck of an aircraft carrier and land, so these were the things that we had to teach them. Special procedures of how they would take off and how they would land. James Smither: Now the people that you were training, were these guys who had not yet had any real flight training, was this the stage before they’d flown airplanes or had they flown planes already? Karol Darling: Oh, they had flown a lot. This was their last train before they went out on an aircraft carrier and went out into the war. They had already done all their training, this was the last thing. James Smither: So they knew how to fly and that sort of thing, but you were kind of preparing them for the special conditions involved in flying off of a carrier and flying this particular type of aircraft. Karol Darling: That’s right. James Smither: Do you think there were also things that simulated torpedo bombing runs and so forth that they did as far as you can tell, or? 19:00 Karol Darling: I think so, and I can remember, I can distinctly remember at one point, during the middle, they came up with this brand new thing we had to teach them, it was very, very important. Now I don’t remember what this was, but it was a certain procedure, something very new that was going to be very helpful. I can remember �everybody was excited about this. But, it’s so long ago, I don’t remember just what it was. James Smither: Now, what kind of accommodations did you have when you were in Atlanta? Where did they put you? Karol Darling: Oh, we lived in the Biltmore Hotel, which sounds luxurious, and it sort of was. They didn’t have barracks for us or anything, because they were already filled with the Navy people. So, but they moved more beds into a room, we would be 3 to a room. And it would be a long hallway, and I can remember at the end of the hallway, there was a desk. And no one could, we had to take turns being on duty. When you were on duty, you sat at that desk, and I think you took a 4-hour duty, 20:00 it was on like, all night. And you had to only let people who were qualified to pass through there, you had to stop anyone else from going down that hallway because it was full of women sleeping. James Smither: The last thing you want is a bunch of Navy guys coming down there. Karol Darling: Yeah. And Army. I met an Army guy while I was there. He came up to me in the hall, I don’t know what he was doing there, but I remember meeting him, and I remember he took me to breakfast in the Biltmore Hotel, I think it was every Sunday morning we had off, he took me to breakfast there. It must’ve been my time off, because while we were there, you had to eat with your group. James Smither: Right. Now, did you get out much and see anything of the city at all, while you were in Atlanta, or? Karol Darling: Yes, you had your day off. I think you had one day a week off. So you could go downtown, you could go to the beach. 21:00 You were pretty much free on your time off to do what you wanted to do. James Smither: Now what was it like living in the South? Were there things different than like in Michigan or Iowa or whatever? Karol Darling: Oh, yes. Atlanta was different. I had never been away from Michigan in all my life. Atlanta was different. It was in Jacksonville that we went to the beach on our day off, not Atlanta. Atlanta, I would go downtown and shop in the stores. I didn’t buy anything because we didn’t have much money. But I would go downtown. Sometimes I’d have a roommate to go, and sometimes I’d just be alone. Just roam through the stores. That was about all I did on my time off. �James Smither: And did it register with you that you were in a segregated society and that there were places where white people went where black people didn’t, or anything like that? Karol Darling: Now that you mention it, I think that did come up. It seems to me that there was a conversation about a great place to each fried chicken. 22:00 Southern fried chicken, which of course, I’d never had. And I can remember someone saying, “Well, don’t go there!” That’s all I remember is being told, “Don’t go there!” So there was, that did come up. It did come up. James Smither: Now, you complete your training in Atlanta, and then they move you on from there to Jacksonville. Now, what sort of place was that? Karol Darling: We lived in a barracks there. On the Navy base. That’s where we lived, 4 to a room. Back in Atlanta, though, I remember, we ate, we didn’t eat at the Biltmore at first, some of us, we ate in different places. Some of us ate, and we always marched to wherever we were going to eat. We ate at a hotel, at first, and the waiter served us, just like 23:00 you were a hotel guest, and I can remember sitting there and looking down, and here was this fish on my plate. There was a whole fish with eyes and the head. I was horrified, all of us, we were pretty horrified with that. But that was where we ate. And then we ate at the Naval base some. And I can remember that was back when smoking was ok. And I can remember eating there and this little tiny guy in a uniform came around hollering, “Philip Morris,” whatever that was, there was something you could see on, you heard on the radio or in the movies or something, where, “Call for Philip Morris.” And he, you know, passed out little packages of cigarettes to everybody. We all got cigarettes. I can’t imagine that now. Then we did eat at the…we ate at Georgia Tech for a while too, with the students. Karol Darling: So those are the 3 places 24:00 I remember then, then when we were moved to Jacksonville, Florida, we lived in the barracks on the Naval base there. They were really ready for us there. James Smither: Ok. And what were you doing in Jacksonville, then? Is that the actual training of pilots now? Karol Darling: Yes, that was where we started. And there were 4 of us to a room. We had bunk beds, and 2 of my roommates taught PBY fliers, the ones that landed on the water. James Smither: Seaplanes, yes. �Karol Darling: And Leah Davis and I taught the TBF pilots, so we, she and I were in the same building, after that training. James Smither: Now, how many pilots do you think you trained? Karol Darling: I don’t remember how many. If I had my log book, I suppose I could look it up and see, but I don’t know. James Smither: Because I noticed in the log book, you seem to have the same names listed in several different sessions. Karol Darling: Yeah, I did have, because they had to have different 25:00—some of them didn’t pass the training. They had to come back and do it again. And there was one, I think that these were all officers that I was teaching, there was one ensign there, he came from a very wealthy family, and I can remember, his mother came—I only heard this, I wasn’t involved in it—his mother came, it was one of them I was teaching, and he wasn’t very good. His mother came, and gave a humungous party for him right there in Jacksonville. I can just definitely remember that. I don’t remember his name, but I remember he didn’t do too well in the link trainer. Some of them did real well, and some of them, it was very difficult for them. They had a hard time passing it. James Smither: What sort of people were they, or what kind of…? Do you remember much at all about them except that they were just young men? Karol Darling: Yeah, they were just nice, 26:00 normal young men. Young men who were in the service. They were in the Navy, so, they had to have enlisted if they were in the Navy cause I don’t believe, I don’t believe they drafted you. James Smither: Draftees go into the Navy, but usually, if you were going to be an officer, commonly you would have enlisted and these men would have been college graduates who had cases too at that point. But most of them would have been enlisted. Karol Darling: Yeah. Funny how some of these memories start coming back! James Smither: Yes, they do. Now, about how long do you think you were based in Jacksonville? Karol Darling: It wasn’t a year. Because then, I’m not exactly sure what happened, but something with my health came up while I was there, and this ensign 27:00 Schwaub, Ensign Schwaub, had put me in the hospital, and I was in the hospital, I was there for I think several weeks, I’m not exactly sure how long. That part has �gone pretty vague, but the thing I remember most was they pulled all my wisdom teeth. I think they were trying to find out what they could do to fix me, they figured something was wrong health-wise, and eventually, there was another WAVE in there. I forget, I don’t know, she had some illness too, and I remember she would always get all these Hershey bars, and she would say, “It’s ok, you can eat all these you want as long as you” she did something, she drank something after she ate those that made it all right, so this was kind of strange. But eventually, then there, they did send me home with a good discharge. So, that ended my Navy career. 28:00 James Smither: Ok. Well let’s go back into it for a little bit. What other particular incidents and things do you remember about the time you spent in Jacksonville? Now, you’re a flight trainer, but you’re based on the ground. Did you ever actually get to go up in an airplane? Karol Darling: Well the only time I got up to go in an airplane, was flying home, of course, when I had to leave, cause I would always fly. And then, the ensign who ran the building that I taught in, he, I believe he wanted to be a flier, but he didn’t make it. So, but he could fly. So, Leah, my roommate and I, both wanted to get in an airplane in the worst way, so he took us one day he had off, he took us out to the airfield, not the Navy airfield, but the real one, and he evidently rented a small plane there, which he flew now and then, and he took each of us, he could only take us one at a time, and he took us each up and he did 29:00 all these fancy maneuvers, flying upside down and what they called a loop-the-loop, flying around and around. We just thought that was great. Didn’t get sick or anything, just loved it. Thought it was wonderful. And I can remember once I flew home one time on leave, I flew home once from there, and it was very foggy and nasty weather outside and I can remember sitting there and I talked with a stewardess, I think that’s what we called them then, and I said, “We flying on instruments?” And she said, “Yes.” I was thrilled. We were flying on instruments. That’s great. James Smither: Just hope the pilot had the right training first. Karol Darling: Yeah! James Smither: Ok, now, what else could you do in Jacksonville? You said you could go to the beach there and that kind of thing, what else was there to do there? Karol Darling: Well, you could go to the beach when you had time off, and we always could get in a bus right there at the base, you had to walk quite a ways, but you got on a bus. And you could go into town or you could go to the 30:00 beach. And, which I did every now and then, and there was some boy there that, someone in �the Army, I think it was, who took me to the beach on my day off now and then. Then you did always have the duty, then you did always have a day off, leave. And then, one time, my roommates, I had Emily Jump, Dorothy McClanahan, Leah Davis, and me, and we all had, I think we had a couple of days off, because Emily, who was from Boston, and she had lived a pretty high life there, with her family, she said we should go to Ponta Viedra Beach???? SPELL and stay in a motel, hotel, or whatever it was. And we did, the four of us, and we didn’t have to wear our uniforms, we had time off. We went there and we stayed overnight. 31:00 And I can remember how wonderful that seemed to me. We stayed in this wonderful place at Ponta Viedra Beach, Florida. James Smither: Now, how many WAVES do you think were on the base in Jacksonville, were there a lot of you or just a handful? Karol Darling: There were quite a lot of us there. Cause, there were, like the building that I taught in, the TBF, there were a lot of us teaching there, and the PBY building had a lot of them there, and I remember the barracks was pretty big. Then there was a mess hall, you know, where we had to go to eat. And you had just certain hours where you ate. We had a wonderful big swimming pool, though. That was one of the best things about it, that we had this swimming pool with diving boards. And the only place I had ever been swimming was in Lake Huron, I grew up in Port Huron and my family had a camp that we set up every summer 32:00 and we all stayed there for weeks in the summer and went swimming in the lake, but I’d never been swimming in a pool before. This was a big pool with a low diving board and a high diving board and I can remember I got so brave that my roommates told me, “Oh, try the high board,” and I even tried the high board. Did a jackknife and did it off the high board. That was a pretty good education in swimming. James Smither: What range of jobs did women have there? There were WAVES doing the flight simulators, but what else were they doing? Karol Darling: I don’t really know. I don’t really know. I know some of them trained in, like, control tower, and then some of them would have been mechanics, airplane mechanics, so there were a lot of different fields you could get into and were there, a lot of them there in Jacksonville. I don’t remember how many buildings we had. That’s kind of a long time ago. James Smither: Now, who’s supervising you 33:00 as you were doing your jobs or in the barracks, things like that, who was in charge of you? �Karol Darling: Well the one, only Ensign Schwaub is the only one I remember being in charge of us in the building. He was the only one. And I can remember we did have to get back in the link trainer and go through and do some more training while we were there, every now and then, we did do that ourselves so that we were more familiar with it, so we knew how to handle that. James Smither: Now back in the barracks, what kind of system did they have for security, and keeping the wrong people out or that sort of thing? Karol Darling: We all had to take turns having the duty. 24 hours a day, everybody there had to take their turn having the duty. James Smither: So, you’re pretty much policing yourselves, in effect? Karol Darling: Mmhmm, yeah, we pretty much did. I think there probably was at least an ensign or some kind of officer in each of the buildings to kind of watch over us. Make sure we did right. James Smither: But it was a little bit different than what is was back out there in Cedar Falls, with women in charge of things 34:00 and in charge of you. And they may have been teachers themselves, professionals in civilian life who could have [garbled] things that are similar. Karol Darling: Yeah, that might’ve been. James Smither: At a college and so forth, a teachers’ college, they may have had some people to draw on for that. Karol Darling: We didn’t question anything, we were there just to do. And we did it. James Smither: How much discipline did they actually have in the WAVES? I mean, they train the men, and so forth, and there’s a lot of “obey orders” and “follow orders” and the whole drill sergeant. Karol Darling: We had the same thing. We drilled all the time, marching, I can remember marching, a huge platoon of us marching through the streets in Atlanta, Georgia. And it was some special event or something, and we were part of the parade, or whatever it was and there were a lot of us there. We had to learn a lot of different marches. And we were very disciplined in that. You had to do everything just right. James Smither: And what happened if you didn’t? �Karol Darling: Well, I don’t remember, cause I think I did it right. 35:00 That’s all I remember. I don’t remember having any discipline, I just did what I was told to do. James Smither: Now, were there people that you were training with, either, in Iowa or Atlanta, that were having a hard time making it, or doing what you were supposed to do or were they pretty consistently successful? Karol Darling: Pretty much successful but there were some exceptions to that. I remember one of the girls didn’t like it and her mother, she got her mother to come and tell them what it was all about and I think she didn’t get an honorable discharge. So, that’s that. James Smither: What do you think morale was like for the WAVES? Were you pretty upbeat and enjoying what you were doing? Karol Darling: It seemed like pretty much that way, and my roommate, I can remember, one of my roommates did not stay in. And two of them did, 36:00 Emily Jump and Leah Davis stayed in. But oh, I remember now, Leah Davis, she met someone, Leah’s family were Jewish, her father was in the cigar-making business in Boston, and I can remember, she met someone, and she just fell head-over-heels. This happened a lot in the Navy. I think people were lonely, and this guy was, I don’t know the Army or the Navy, but she met him there, so it might have been Navy. And I can remember, she ran away, and got time off, and they got married. But it was not a successful marriage, I can remember that. And the other roommate, Dottie, she had a boyfriend, and I think, she just missed him so bad, that she wanted to go home. She wanted him. So, I remember those things, so there were some hurdles 37:00 that a lot of people had to get over. James Smither: Now did they allow married women in the WAVES, or if you got married did you have to leave? Karol Darling: I guess they must’ve allowed it, if Leah married— James Smither: Leah stayed in? Karol Darling: Yeah, she stayed in. Yeah, so it must be that they did allow that. James Smither: What if a woman got pregnant, or did that not come up, so you don’t know about that? Karol Darling: The only thing I know about that is, one of the women who was in my room in Atlanta, there were three of us there. When we went home on leave, she came �back and I know she had an abortion, so I think that’s how she solved her problem. Cause I can remember her being deathly ill, and not wanting anyone to know this, 38:00 but somehow or other they found out, the officers didn’t find out and nobody told on her, but some of them knew she was really ill, cause I’m sure she had that done in Atlanta, illegally. But, I remember she was one of my roommates there. So that was a pretty sad situation there, really, pretty sad. So those things did happen. Being in the service wasn’t all that easy. James Smither: What were the challenges for you, or what made the service difficult for you in certain ways? Or things that you didn’t like about it? Karol Darling: Oh, I think I liked most everything about it, I don’t remember anything I didn’t like. But I’d never been away from home before, and although I was 21 years old, I was probably, I was very unsophisticated, I had lived a very sheltered life at home with big family, and 39:00 I was very lonesome for my family. And my father was a pharmacist, owned a drug store then, and he had a hard time getting help there and I remember wishing that I could go home and help my dad in the drug store. So it was kind of a lonely time in a lot of ways, and I’m sure other people had their problems with this too. Some of the girls were a lot more sophisticated, they had travelled, this was my first time away from home, my first time on a train, you know, just first of a lot of things for me. James Smither: But you did a pretty good job of staying out of trouble there. Karol Darling: I didn’t ever get in trouble. That was one thing. I obeyed, I obeyed. Because I didn’t question it. I can remember my roommate, Emily, saying, “Ours but to do or die,” when we were in Cedar Falls training, our very first training, she was telling us how we had to obey, we had to obey. 40:00 “Ours but to do or die, we have to do this.” So we all shaped up and Emily helped us. James Smither: Are there other things and experiences in service you might have had that stick out or come back to you that you haven’t mentioned to us yet? Karol Darling: Oh, I remember my brother, Keith, who was in the Marine Corps, he was born on my first birthday, so we were just a year apart in age. And he and I had leave at the same time, we went home to our family and had leave together. And there was a big write-up in the paper about us and a picture in the paper and all about how wonderful it was. And we had a lot of pictures there, and of course, and we had two uniforms, we had the Navy uniform and we had a dress uniform, which was all white, so I wore the white uniform for the picture with my brother. 41:00 It was nice. �James Smither: Other things that stand out or kind of come back to you if you think about that time? Karol Darling: I pretty much told you just about everything. Seems like. James Smither: Now you, basically, they decide that you were sick or whatever, and they decide that, they give you the discharge, they send you home, do you remember about when that was? Was it ’44, or? Karol Darling: I think it was late 19-, late 19-, the end of 1943. James Smither: Ok. Karol Darling: Cause I was in for over a year. About that length of time. James Smither: All right. And then what did you do once you got home? Karol Darling: Well, I think I went to work in my father’s drug store. He was happy to have me. I think that was what I did. I went home. James Smither: And then, how long after that did you get married? Karol Darling: I got married in 1944. 42:00 1944. In May of 1944. James Smither: And when did you meet your husband? Karol Darling: Well, I had met him before I went in the Navy, cause he was in school at Michigan State, and he was in the ROTC, so he was allowed to finish his senior year there, graduate, but then went right into the Army after that, cause the war had started. He went into service right after that, in the Army. He was an officer. A lieutenant in the Army. So, I had met him when I was working at Wait’s??? Department Store, and he was in college and then we got married in 1944 when he was home on leave. He called me up on the phone and proposed over the telephone. Then he came home and we got married in May. James Smither: And then 43:00 after the war when you got home, did you continue working or did you just stay home at that point? Karol Darling: I didn’t work after I was married. I didn’t work. He had worked at General Motors as a summer student while he was in college, so when he got out of the service, he went back to General Motors and had a very menial, low-paying job to start with there, but worked his way up very well. But we lived in a, it was very hard to find a place to live back then after the war, you know, the food was rationed, the war years were pretty hard on you. And after the war, the food was still rationed. And they hadn’t built any houses, they hadn’t manufactured any �cars, there were so many things like that that happened. And my brother had a friend whose father 44:00 was in the banking business, maybe it was the mortgage department or something, cause he found us an apartment in Detroit, where my husband was working. Found us this old apartment, we were just thrilled, just to have a place to live, it was just wonderful. So I remember that. James Smither: So how long did it take for things to sort of go back to normal? Because you’re talking about, rationing is going on, after the war. Karol Darling: Yeah, it was. James Smither: Do you have a sense of how long that went on? Karol Darling: I don’t really remember how long it went on. Cause I remember entertaining my in-laws for the first time in my little apartment, and you had to have coupons in order to buy meat, there were a lot of things that you had to have your ration coupons for, and I can remember that. And I don’t think I served them any meat, I think I served them pancakes or something for dinner, 45:00 which was pretty much a disaster, according to my in-laws. But, I didn’t know any better, I guess! It was hard. James Smither: Ok. Then how’d you wind up in West Michigan? Karol Darling: Well, we lived on the other side of the state in a subdivision called Fox Trot, we lived there and raised our boys there. We lived there 27 years. And my husband took an early retirement for health reasons from General Motors, and he just did not want to stay there, so he wanted to move to North Carolina. And we had friends who had done that, moved from where we lived to North Carolina, and he was by then retired from General Motors and wanted to move so we did move to North Carolina and we lived there for 46:00 17 years and our three sons would come and visit us now and then, we decided the house we lived in was too hard to take care of and we should move to a smaller place, we were getting older, so we should move to a smaller place, we were looking for different places in Henderson, North Carolina, where we lived, that were like retirement places. So our boys came down one at a time and they decided, they weren’t building things very well there, they didn’t like the way things were there, and it was too far away and we should come back to Michigan. Because it was too hard for them to come and see us in our old age. So they convinced us we needed to come back to Michigan, and they really worked on us, and that’s why we ended up here. James Smither: Well thank you for taking time to talk with us today. �Karol Darling: Thank you. 46:56 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Darling, Karol (Interview transcript and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Darling, Karol Description An account of the resource Karol Darling was born Michigan in 1921 and joined the Navy in 1931 and trained in the Wave Program. She worked in Georgia and Florida training pilots in the Navy to take off from air craft carriers. Karol was discharged after working in Jacksonville for one year due to an illness. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Naval Reserve. Women's Reserve World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-03-24 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DarlingK Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6c3291e9a6ad8822dac613f7062dab25.mp4 c0cda1ecbaaf3d9a1b637cb4ef6925be https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/20428d33e3cdadfb1ab937acd574a4a8.pdf 962d3b47547aaedfecb18d9988c640d4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Civilian Service Interviewee: Ed Darling Length of Interview: 1hr 6mins Pre-Enlistment (00:12) • Childhood (00:14) o Darling was born in his parents’ farm home in Alpine Township, Michigan, on June 20, 1924. (00:25) o Growing up, Darling lived and worked on his father’s farm until he was old enough to work elsewhere. (00:37) o Once he became of age, the draft board put pressure on him to enlist but he deferred several times to avoid having to serve and yet eventually his time ran out and he had to enlist. (00:57) o Describes what it took to get a deferment. The reason for his deferment was doing farm-type work at the time. (01:20) • Education (01:58) o Stayed in school until 9th Grade but then dropped out because he had gotten sick of it. (02:05) His Jobs (02:18) o Describes what jobs he held and what the responsibilities were of each one. He mentions that on one of his jobs several German POWs worked with him in Sparta picking apples. (02:37) o About the time, Pearl Harbor was attacked Darling was 17. He continued to follow the news of the war. (04:20) Enlistment/Training (05:38) • Where he went (05:41) o Darling joined the armed service on September 15, 1944. From May to September Darling was still in basic training. (05:45) o Got engaged to his wife on May 2, 1945 and was married in 1947. (06:44) o Backs up again, and mentions that after he was drafted he reported to an office building for paperwork in Grand Rapids and then onto to Detroit for a medical physical. (07:30) o 4 weeks afterwards he was sent to Fort Sheridan, Illinois for induction. (08:21) • Camp Robinson training (08:42) o From here, he was sent to Camp Robinson near Little Rock, Arkansas. Describes the trip there in some detail. (08:50) o He then describes his experience at Camp Robinson in some detail. Briefly describes what the men he trained with were like. He and his fellow draftees were training here for the invasion of Japan. (09:15) �o His training consisted of bayonet and rifle training. This training also consisted of marching. (11:01) o Briefly describes how the drill sergeants treated draftees. (12:40) o On one specific encounter, Darling describes how a rifle grenade exploded blowing up his ear drum. (14:06) o Reviews the fact that his training lasted from May, to September upon which time he was shuffled around the country to different bases such as Fort Riley, Kansas, Fort Ord, California, Camp Anderson, California, and then overseas. (15:40) • Traveling overseas (17:01) o Left the U.S. aboard a troop transport bound on the northward circular route to Yokohama Bay, Japan. Describes what this experience was like. (17:14) Active Duty (19:01) • Japan (19:03) o Landed in Yokohama, in the dark and from there boarded a train. Describes his o o o o o o train experience aboard an original steam engine. (20:12) Stayed at a supply depot for up to 10 days in a 20-man tent. (20:40) A little later, he was assigned to the 4025th Signal Service Group where he served as a driver shuttling officers to various functions. (21:41) ƒ On one occasion, he drove a captain to a camera ship where the officer bought him a camera. (22:26) As a driver, serving in Tokyo he describes what the city was like and what damage American strategic bombing did to the city buildings. (24:13) Among the buildings not bombed was the Imperial Palace and important buildings up on the hill which were not in located in the industrial area. (26:03) On Christmas Eve, he and a few other piled into a truck to St. Xavier Church where they celebrated Christmas. Describes what the reaction of the civilians was to the soldiers. The service he attended was done all in Japanese. The Japanese he worked with spoke no English so he couldn’t understand what was being said. (27:20) While he was assigned to the 4025th (Mobile) Signal Service Group he and his unit’s job was to respond to any emergencies that broke out around Japan if any occurred with their trucks. (30:42) On a few encounters, his unit witnessed a number of beheadings around the area of Shimbashi, Japan. (31:46) ƒ According to the account of a Japanese soldier, from the northern regions of Hokkaidō he informed Darling of what his service was like while stationed in Manchuria. This Japanese soldier discussed how the Japanese felt towards the Chinese while they occupied the Manchuria region during the war. (32:15) After this time, Darling was reassigned to the 71st Signaling Service Group or the 71st Signal Battalion, a new group which had just been formed to better manage the paperwork. (33:24) ƒ His battalion was stationed 5 miles outside of Tokyo in an abandoned warehouse near Tokyo Bay. His unit was responsible for the distribution �and inventory of supplies to any unit that needed them. Describes this in some detail. (34:23) ƒ Briefly describes what each of his team member’s roles was and where their routes took them. When not doing this, Darling filed and sorted paperwork. (36:29) ƒ Describes what his supply officer was like. (38:03) Sightseeing (40:10) ƒ Briefly describes what a 5-day work week looked like. (40:12) • Among the things he mentions is some of the people he bumped into such as MacArthur’s driver and other officers. (42:21) ƒ On weekends, he and a few friends went sightseeing. On one occasion they climbed Mt. Fuji, aka in Japanese (Fujiyama) (43:45) ƒ Briefly discusses some of the experiences he had with the Japanese people in some detail. Once they realized the U.S. army was there to do a job and not to conquer they felt more at ease with the American soldiers.(44:38) ƒ Briefly describes a visit he had with a few Australians who were in the area during his stay there. (47:20) ƒ On one encounter, he and his unit found a hidden ammunition dump stocked with artillery pieces behind a railroad which they confiscated. This supply of weapons and ammo would have been used against the Americans had they invaded Japan. (48:48) Leaving for Home (52:46) o Darling mentions that he received individual orders on when he could go home; while other soldiers were usually sent home after they had accumulated 120 points. (53:02) o The Japanese Noritake tea set he received from a local Japanese laborer was probably the best thing he said he got out of Japan among the other things he received. (54:54) o Went home aboard a LST called the Marine Swivel, operated by some 1st Marines of the Merchant Marines. Briefly describes what they were like. (56:47) Back in the States (59:14) o Landed at Oakland, CA where he took a day to rest. Afterwards he boarded a Southern Pacific train bound for Fort Sheridan, Illinois where he was soon to be discharged. Was not discharged until Dec. 15th 1946. (1:01:16) After the Service (1:01:47) • Adjusting to Home (1:01:57) o Once home, Darling took a job working in the Medical Arch Pharmacy stocking medicines. Spent 30 years in drug distribution, handling orders for hospitals, and retail. (1:02:36) • Reflection (1:03:45) o Darling describes how the service made him grow up and become an adult. (1:04:01) o While with the Army, he enjoyed the service very much. (1:05:13) �• Interview Ends (1:06:41) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Darling, Ed (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Darling, Ed Description An account of the resource Ed Darling is a World War II veteran who served in the U.S. Army from September 1944 to December 1946. In this account, Darling discusses his pre-enlistment, enlistment and training in the U.S., and his active duty in Japan during the military occupation of their country. Darling takes a depth look of what occupational life in Japan was like for an Army soldier and mentions a number of social encounters with former Japanese soldiers. He briefly describes what his duties consisted of and what the attitude of the Japanese people was like towards the U.S. occupational forces. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-05-21 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DarlingE Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cf93d3ea31d017714663de671f188ce3.pdf 1f9671dc4ecd8af4c7a1faf8ccb4255e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Vietnam War Wesley Daniels (15:02) Background Information (00:20)    Served in the Marine Corps (00:20) Wesley joined the Marines after being influenced by many of his school friends who also enlisted. (00:40) Wesley believed he would be drafted if he didn’t first enlist. (1:18) Service (1:30)         He served in Helicopter Squadron 647, which was based just south of Da Nang. (1:42) Wesley served as a squadron clerk. He handled much of the administrative business of his squadron. (1:47) After several months working as a clerk he asked to be transferred to a ground unit so he had a chance to fight. Instead he was told to go on a helicopter flight and then visit the hospital. He changed his mind as a result. (2:55) Wesley felt pretty safe in his area of work. (4:50) He wrote many letters and was once allowed to call home in order to talk with his family. (5:40) The men would often go to China Beach for recreation where the men were able to drink beer and relax. (6:52) Wesley went to Australia for some R&R. For his second R&R he went to Bangkok, Thailand. (7:30) He was able to see fire fights happening at night from the base that he was stationed at. (8:50) End of Service (10:35)      Wesley was excited to leave Vietnam. After being home for a week, he began attending Junior college. He did not experience much protesting when he returned from service. (11:34) He does not believe his military experience affected his life as a civilian too greatly. (12:40) He is a member of veterans' organizations. (13:30) Over all, Wesley was glad to have a chance to serve his country. (14:24) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Daniels, Wesley (Interview outline), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Daniels, Wesley Description An account of the resource Wesley Daniels enlisted in the Marine Corps and served during the Vietnam War. He Served in Helicopter Squadron 647 and worked as a clerk. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Plattner, Spencer (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Marine Corps Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-07 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DanielsW1357V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives