54 24 1541 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/933f8dc11f2bf534d4c2787a341804b4.pdf 9be1b5b837a0b267cc18907957961d5f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Korean War Era Robert Drew Introduction (00:00:02) • Born March 16th, 1930 in Decatur, Indiana (00:00:42) ◦ Robert Drew lived in a farm community for his whole life til age 19 with his family of eight; six from the Drew family along with his grandfather and grandmother (00:01:14) ◦ The farm era of Drew's life revolved around the time period of the Great Depression which made things difficult because there wasn't much employment due to the depression time in his early years (00:02:37) ◦ His family had farm produce to keep them afloat so it wasn't too bad, although there was a lack of money (00:03:06) ▪ Robert was the first and only in his family to enter the military (00:03:32) • Robert was motivated to go into the military by being able to choose his own branch rather than to be drafted somewhere he did not want to go; he enlisted in the Air Force (00:04:03) • Robert joined the National Guard first while still going to school; he was able to choose his branch of service and at that time was unaware of any other branch of service which he could of joined; this took place in Ft. Wayne, Indiana (00:04:29) Air Force (00:04:43) • Robert's job was with the Tactical Air Force and was attached to a radar unit; the radar unit was on the front lines; they didn't have any equipment at the airfield he was at the time, and Robert did not take any basic training (00:05:21) • Robert did air traffic control and listened to planes and saw how they were lined up in order in landing procedure so there wasn't two landing at the same time; in this time period the planes changed from propellor to jet engine (00:06:33) ◦ Robert enlisted for three years and then got his discharge and enlisted for another year (00:07:44) ▪ Robert got his discharge after three years because the Korean War had ended in 1953; Robert started school in September of 1953 (00:08:15) • He went to school on a suggestion from a high school teacher; he went to Ball State Teachers College in Muncie, Indiana (00:08:40) • With the Government Issue (GI) Bill, the government paid Robert $110 per month to go to college (00:09:43) ◦ After Robert graduated college in 1957, he went right into teaching; Robert took a job in Zeeland, Michigan in the fall of 1957 and is still there today (00:10:19) Life in the Barracks (00:13:47) • Because the Korean War was winding down when Robert arrived, as a radar operator, Robert remembers his equipment not being up to date (00:14:15) • Robert remembers doing very little radar operating work due to the lack of equipment (00:15:01) • Robert did a lot of volunteer duty, one such as main gate duty; he had a .45 but never shot nor knew how to use it (00:17:16) • From around (00:17:20) til (00:22:01) Robert explains the different rankings of the Air Force at �• • the time and how each one could be achieved Robert was stationed at Shaw Air Force Base in South Carolina when his time came up for a Staff Sergeant promotion by the review board where they held an hour interrogation by the officers; Robert passed but was only under National Guard jurisdiction and told him he was going to be discharged (00:24:07) ◦ Robert traveled around quite a bit but was never issued a National Guard vehicle so they had to use their own cars (00:26:21) ▪ Unless the men had guard duty, they had weekends off; Robert went to church often and traveled as much as he could (00:28:00) ▪ Robert had a 1948 Plymouth Club Coupe to drive around in; it was his favorite vehicle and he still wishes he had it today (00:28:29) It was easy for Robert and his family to keep in touch as he had mail call every day even though they did not have a telephone; letter writing was the primary way too keep in touch (00:29:07) Post Military Life (00:30:31) • Robert taught in 29 years in Zeeland, for his whole career; he was offered early retirement which he took, Robert and his wife traveled quite a bit and did basic volunteer work (00:31:03) • Robert viewed the military as good experience although he mentions he didn't accomplish anything there because of the time period and the end of the war; he was on 24 hour notice to Korea and had his stuff packed (00:31:42) • The overall discipline and having a crew of men where Robert made the decisions carried over to his school career (00:33:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Drew, Robert (Interview outline), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Drew, Robert Description An account of the resource Robert Drew was born on March 16th, 1930 in Decatur, Indiana. Robert was the first and only member of his family to enter the military. He joined the National Guard while going to school and then chose to join the Air Force before the United States had a chance to draft him to a branch of service he would have not preferred. Robert was part of the Tactical Air Force unit and did air traffic control. He never left the United States due to the timing of the war. Robert was discharged after three years because the Korean War came to an end. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Drew, Marissa (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. National Guard United States. Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-04-06 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DrewR1502V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ee64eb7041c99c44d613ac3dc3ce7549.mp4 f4a102244067968c454c570027afce85 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3900b3f503d07e8a96c255e00298f3d8.pdf 710bbfb821a2928d03816561c86952e5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Projects Richard Doyle (1:48:02) Back ground information (00:15)             Was born in Bellows Falls, Vermont on September 6th 1945 (00:17) He has lived his entire life in Vermont and still resides there. (00:26) He grew up in a relatively small town of 3,500 residents. (00:33) He attended high school and graduated in 1963. (00:43) He attended a Catholic grade school. (00:59) He attended a prep school after high school for a year in 1963 before attending the University of Vermont for 4.5 years (approx 1964-1969) (1:14) He Graduated from the University of Vermont in May of 1969 (1:27) He was a history major. (1:32) His mother was a hairdresser. (1:50) His father worked his first career on railroads and his second career in a machine shop. (2:00) His degree was awarded to him while in basic training. (2:44) He received his draft notice in January or February of 1969. (3:03) Basic Training (3:05)                After receiving his notice he went to Fort Dix, New Jersey. (3:10) He didn’t believe the army would waste his talents by placing him in the infantry. (3:20) 90% of his company was national guardsmen and after they finished their training they were going home. He realized that for him this would not be the case. (3:49) He received orders to undergo advanced infantry training. (4:43) He went to Fort Lewis Washington for his infantry training. (4:50) After his testing he was interviewed and offered an opportunity to attend Language school or a position in the Officer Candidate School. (5:00) He went directly from basic training to advanced Infantry training with no leave in between. (6:15) Advanced infantry training lasted 6-9 weeks. (6:23) In advanced Infantry training (AIT) there was much more running than in basic as well as educate in squad tactics checking for booby traps and more field problems. (6:50) In AIT he was also trained on TOWS, LAWS, and bazookas. (7:36) He was trained on the M14 in basic training but switched to the M16 for AIT. (7:48) After finishing training he was given a 2 week leave before being sent to Vietnam. (8:42) He was sent out to Vietnam from Fort Lewis, Washington. (4:08) All the men he saw in AIT were primarily draftees. (9:46) A very small number of the men he trained with received order to Germany. (10:16) � He attempted to apply for NCO school however he was unable to be accepted because his infantry score on his tests was too low. (10:40) Arrival in Vietnam (13:20)           He flew from Sea-Tac Airport in Seattle Washington, to Alaska, to Japan, and finally to Long Binh Vietnam. (13:50) The heat in Vietnam was overwhelming. (14:06) Being infantry he was immediately assigned for guard duty at Long Binh. This shift was often at night which led to him having free time during the day. (14:54) He still had to make formation to see where and when he would be assigned. (15:28) He was assigned to 1st infantry Division who at the time (October 1969) were headquartered in Di An and Lai Khe(15:40) He flew in a C-140 to Dau Tieng which was a headquarters. (16:11) Between Dau Tieng and Long Binh he was sent to Di An where he received some training. (16:40) While in Di An he was given 3-4 days of sniper training. This entailed training on the M-14 at extended distances and then with a scope. (16:53) He did not have a high enough score to go on from sniper school. (18:03) He was offered a job as a clerk but did not get high enough scores on his typing test. (18:53) Service in the Black Lions (the 2nd battalion, 28th infantry) (19:20)            He was assigned to the 2/28 Infantry. The Black Lions. (19:22) He joined the company while it was in the field. He was told to take his underwear and throw it away because it was useless. (19:48) They were staying at a very very small firebase. It had sand bag bunkers and mortar pits. (20:35) While stationed at this base the men took part in mine sweeping activity. This must be done every day. (22:10) At the time of his arrival, 1st infantry had been operating primarily against Viet Cong units. (22:22) The area in witch he was stationed was booby trap rich. (23:30) In the time he was stationed there, there was never a mine uncovered on the road. (23:50) There were several close calls with booby traps while out in the field. (24:27) One of their responsibilities was to set up perimeters around rice paddies so that the VC couldn’t steal rice. (25:00) One of his tasks also entailed covering a sniper who was set in a small tower. (25:55) Contact with the VC entailed occasional sniper fire as well as encounters with bunkers. (26:34) Clearing of a bunker (January 2nd 1970) (27:30)  His platoon leader was informed that something suspicious was found and he was eager for any action. (27:55) �       Shortly after investigating, there was a massive explosion. (29:03) 2 VC bunkers were found. When the platoon leader investigated the bunker he set off a booby trap. This explosion hit both the platoon leader and his RTO. (29:30) Being the first one on the scene, he saw the RTO first and when he turned him over to look at him he knew instantly that he was dead. (30:35) 10 days before this incident he was the platoon leader’s RTO. (31:37) The Platoon leader wasn’t killed by the explosion but he was unconscious. (31:58) By using the men’s shirts and 2 poles, a stretcher was made to carry the platoon leader back to a medevac. (33:16) This was his first encounter with death and injury in the war. (34:00) Service in the Black Lions (cont.) (34:50)     At this time, his unit was preparing to be taken out of Vietnam in late January of 1970 (34:56) He felt that every life that was lost after the president said the U.S. would pull out of Vietnam was a wasted life. (36:18) He, as well as many others, was told that his unit would be disbanded and that he was to go somewhere else. (36:48) This mentality crated a bond that lead to very significant friendships with soldiers he served with. (37:08) The Rubber Plantation. (37:38)      For Christmas, a party was held in this field where the men were given beer. (3 beers per person) (37:57) After the part was over the men were placed back in the field and he was placed into the jungle next to the [Michelin] Rubber Plantation. (38:27) Here he found a bunker complex that was 6-7 bunkers. They were very fresh. (38:35) He was assigned to 12 o’clock to 3 o’clock for a 100 meter sweep. (39:15) During this sweep he was required to cross a clearing. While in the middle of this clearing a machine gun began firing. This however was another group of G.I.s firing upon VC. (39:50) Service in the 2nd of the 2nd (41:05)       There was poor communication when assigning the men to other units. (41:04) He was sent to the 2nd of the 2nd which was a mechanized infantry battalion. (41:11) The foliage on the river banks [this relates to part of his service with 2/28] was very think right at the edge of the river and beyond that the terrain was composed of rice paddies. (42:16) When stopped at night half the men would be on the boat and half would be placed on land. (42:49) His assignment on the boat only lasted a couple weeks until a new unit rotated onto the duty. (43:15) He was treated as a new guy even though he was not when he was in the 2nd of the 2nd (43:50) �         He knew approx 3-4 men as who came with him from his former unit. (44:33) At night, a mechanized unit would send a man with a radio out 100 meters away from the unit and he and the new men from his former unit were often selected for this job. (44:55) In one occasion a personnel transport unit exploded and several men were injured. (45:40) A .50 Cal. Machine gun was placed on top of the armored personal carriers; the user of these always had to wear a flak jacket. (47:35) He stayed with the 2nd of the 2nd for about a month (48:08) While traveling to Di An and planning to turn in their equipment for use by the ARVN [South Viethamese Army], the company was pulled into a large field and unloaded all ammunition and supplies and placed it in a pile to later be collected. 2 men deployed a smoke grenade that caught the tall grass on fire and then caught all the ammunition on fire. This action resulted in his sergeant being struck by a stay round and dying. (48:20) The fire took a few hours to die down. (51:32) The armored personnel carriers were to be turned in at Di An. (52:11) There was a small award ceremony for the 2nd of the 2nd but he was not awarded anything. (53:00) Service in the 101st, Delta Company, 1/506 (54:00)                When he was sent to the 101st Airborne Division in late February of 1970. He had heard bad things about theunit and was nervous. (55:00) The men of the 101st were very pleased to see new men. (55:55) He was then sent to Camp Evans where he underwent a 1 week long training. Here they discussed booby traps, NVAs [North Vietnamese Army], and larger scale tactics. (56:30) He underwent this training after having 6 months in the field. This drastically changed his perception of the training. (57:33) He was then sent to Delta Company in March of 1970, who were in the field on a mountain. (58:33) They were very glad to have seasoned men joining their company. (59:50) In this company he made many air assaults from helicopters. (1:00:04) In the 101st he was assigned to Delta Company, 1st of the 506 Infantry, second platoon. (1:01:32) He was much more welcome in Delta Company than when he was in the 2nd of the 2nd. (1:01:51) After going Delta Company he was immediately flown out to the company’s position. (1:03:01) The Company did a lot of work in mountainous terrain. (1:04:16) In April of 1970 at 1:00 AM another platoon had satchel charges thrown into their perimeter. He and his platoon were called upon to aid the soldiers under attack. However when they arrived the satchel charges had stopped. (1:04:40) One of the soldiers in the platoon under attack had taken a hit in his buttocks. He believed that such wounds had been fatal. (1:07:05) A medevac was called in to take out the wounded man that night. However due to the weather conditions, it was very difficult for the men to be spotted. (1:09:20) Doyle and another soldier escorted two men carrying the stretcher with the wounded soldier outside the perimeter to a small hilltop above some of the fog so that they could signal the medevac. (1:10:40) �             When serving in the 2nd and the 28th he would often be set up in “ambush mode” set up on a line with some security going the other way. Claymores were often used as booby traps to warn of oncoming troops. (1:11:30) While in the First Infantry Division he was not allowed to have ponchos only poncho liners. However in the 101st he was allowed to have both. (1:13:26) Ponchos were believed to be very noisy and when wet would reflect light which could lead to giving away positions. (1:14:00) On his first night in the field with his squad in the 101st, the squad leader put a man on first watch whom he knew would fall asleep. This way, he would not wake up the next man, and they could all sleep all night. Doyle knew that this exposed the unit to attack, and complained to the platoon sergeant. (1:14:57) After bringing up the issue of men sleeping on watch it did not happen again. (1:17:35) The different terrain each assignment was stationed in also meant different missions. (1:18:00) The day after the satchel attack the 2nd and 3rd platoons had been hit by mortars. (1:18:54) The following day the platoon moved position. However they were once again attacked by sappers with satchel charges. (1:20:00) During this encounter he took some light shrapnel and his ears began bleeding. (1:21:40) Air support was called in; however, they were unable to spot their position so a flare had to be popped in order to signal their position. (1:21:59) The following day (April 10th 1970) so many men had been wounded that the company was extracted from the field and placed at Camp Evans. (1:22:42) After being regrouped, the company was sent to a Firebase Rakkasan. (1:23:40) Though his wounds were not very serious he was awarded a Purple Heart after this encounter. (1:24:02) Action at Firebase Ripcord (April 1970) (1:24:30)           He had been operated on twice already since being in Vietnam. (1:24:44) Both encounters had been for wounds that became infected and a separate infection of his underarm. (1:25:22) While at the Rakkasan, he suffered from an infection of his hand from cellulitis. (1:26:06) He was given penicillin pills which he knew were not strong enough to solve the problem but the doctor would not listen. When the condition got worse, he was sent back to Camp Evans. (1:26:20) While at Camp Evans he was put on bunker guard. He was given this duty in spite being so injured from his infection that he was unable to pick up a weapon. (1:27:00) The doctor again insisted on giving him penicillin pills instead of shots, so he decided to take pain pills instead of the penicillin. As a result, his hand became so swollen that he had to be medevaced to Phu Bai. (1:27:27) From here he was sent to several hospitals ultimately resulting in him missing 27 days of service. (1:28:00) While in the hospital his platoon had been involved in a large firefight on May 7th where 7 died. (1:28:20) In the battle, a lot of the men he knew and trusted were killed. This furthered the belief in the idea that he was unable to trust the people around him. (1:29:58) He returned to his platoon in May and received R&R in Bangkok in June of 1970 (1:30:30) �      When returning to his platoon on Firebase Kathryn in late June of 1970 he was offered the position of the liaison between the supply sergeant and the platoon. (1:31:34) In spite only having been in Delta Company for 4 months, he was now one of the more experienced men due to the loss of soldiers. (1:33:20) On July 20th 1970 he was sitting on the tarmac with all the supplies for Delta Company when the transport meant for Ripcord was shot down. (1:33:30) He felt a lot of survivor’s guilt as a result of this occurrence and powerless. (1:34:33) He moved a lot, depending on where Delta Company was stationed. (1:35:16) One of the most valuable things to have was a cold soda. (1:35:40) Completion of Duty (1:36:50)      When being sent back to the states he shipped out of Cam Ranh Bay on October 1st of 1970 and arrived in Fort Lewis. (1:36:53) He was still required to be in the army till May 1971 (1:37:35) He was then placed in a mechanized infantry unit (4th infantry)(1:37:47) He was first in his board which is how he came to be a Sergeant. (1:48:05) He won very many awards and honors while here, leading him to be sent to the promotion board. (1:39:36) Culture of Units (1:40:00)    Drug use was a big use as well as race. But drugs were less common on the field than in the rear. (1:40:25) There was a lot of self segregation (1:41:05) In the 101st race and drug use had been the least of all other positions he had. (1:42:38 Later service (1:42:58)        He wore his class A uniform to get a cheap flight, but after the plane took off he when into the men’s room and removed it. (1:43:05) 2 years and 2 months later (approx. 1972) he was offered a position with the M.P. which he agreed to if he was made a staff sergeant. (1:43:24) He was made a correctional counselor but after his unit was disbanded he was made a Platoon leader. (1:44:26) In June of 1993 he made Sergeant Major. (1:45:30) On September 11th 2001, he was scheduled to go to ground zero for 2 weeks. (1:46:05) He served on the planning of the invasion of Afghanistan. (1:47:00) He was involved in the setup of Guantanamo Prison. (1:47:10) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Doyle, Richard (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Doyle, Richard Description An account of the resource Richard Doyle was born in Vermont and drafted into the US Army as he finished college in 1969. He trained as an infantryman and served in two different battalions in the 1st Infantry Division before being reassigned to the 101st. He served with D Company, 1/506 Infantry, from March until October, 1970 and participated in the Ripcord campaign. After returning from Vietnam, he stayed in the Army and eventually became an MP. He participated in the planning of the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 and the establishment of the facility for Al Qaida prisoners at Guantanamo. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McGregor, Michael (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-10-06 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DoyleR1277V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3e71c310a43dd284b673f5344f70a591.mp4 9face28aa0326467b6877adcbc8236eb https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/690f375bf7333a45156f467964b5f284.pdf cab48289e5aee0022c25b9d3491944b8 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Mildred Jane Doyle Interviewer: Frank Boring Transcribed by Emilee G. Johnson, Western Michigan University Length: 57:00 Interview begins at 3:05 Frank Boring: Let’s begin with your name and where and when you were born. Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, my name is Jane, Mildred Jane, but I go by Jane, Doyle. My maiden name is Baessler. I was born in Grand Rapids. 1921, October 1921. Frank Boring: 1921? What was your early schooling like here in Grand Rapids? Mildred Jane Doyle: I went to what was then Lafayette School, it’s now Vandenberg Academy of Arts, I think. I went to grade school there and then I went to South High School in the 7th grade and graduated from South High School in ’39. And then I went to what was then Grand Rapids Junior College in 1940 and University of Michigan 1941 to ’43. Frank Boring: Now, at that time, as a girl, 4:05 how did you figure out that you were going to go to college, I mean, a lot of girls were either going to be married or else they’re going to be a teacher, or a nurse or something, what was the—how did you decide that you were going to go in to college? Mildred Jane Doyle: My parents, from the time I can remember, said that we were going to go to college because they never had. My mother went through the 6th grade and my father came from Germany and he went to correspondence school after he got to this country, and worked for the railroad and they both wanted us to, there were 4 of us, and they wanted us to have a good education. Frank Boring: So education was part of your whole [garbled] Mildred Jane Doyle: It was very important. Frank Boring: That’s wonderful. Did you know what you wanted to do when you went to school? Mildred Jane Doyle: No. Frank Boring: So they pretty much picked it out for you? �Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, my brother was an architect, and he went to the University of Michigan and I always admired my brother so much that I thought, that’s what I want to do. So I went there and went into interior design. 5:05 Frank Boring: Ok. All right. Now, you’re in college, studying interior design, but the war is brewing out there. Were you aware of what was going on in Germany and Japan during that period? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, I was because in Junior College, I was talking engineering drawing at that time, so I could transfer to U of M, and the professor, or, the instructor in engineering class came in and told the class, which was all boys, I was the only girl in the class, that there was going to be a summer program to train pilots. See, that was 1939. And the war was already brewing in Europe, and so the United States, well the Air Force decided that they needed more pilots and so they started the civilian pilot training program. Frank Boring: Was this Army Air Corps? Mildred Jane Doyle: It was Army Air Corps at that time. Frank Boring: Cause we didn’t have an Air Force at that time. [garbled] 6:05 So you’re the one girl in all this class of guys, ok, and they’re offering this pilots thing, was there any reaction to you volunteering to get involved in, did they think you were nuts or something? Mildred Jane Doyle: I don’t know what they thought, I didn’t care, I wanted to do it. Frank Boring: Good for you! Mildred Jane Doyle: So I thought, oh this sounds great, I want to do this. Frank Boring: So what was the process of actually signing up for this thing? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well I had to go through the physical and when they first started the program, they said women had to be 5’4’’, the same height as men. And so I thought, well that lets me out, but I thought, “Maybe I can stretch 2 inches!” [laughs] So I tried to stretch and everything, but then they lowered it to 5’2 1/2’’, so I just got it. Frank Boring: Just got in. Yeah, my mom is 5’ 2’’ actually, so… [laughs] Mildred Jane Doyle: So I had to take the physical and then we had ground school training, and went out there, and we were split into three classes at the airport. 7:05 Frank Boring: Now, you’re still in school? �Mildred Jane Doyle: I was in junior college. It was the summer, summer of 1940. Frank Boring: Ok! So, where did you train? Mildred Jane Doyle: We trained at the airport in Grand Rapids. Frank Boring: In Grand Rapids? Mildred Jane Doyle: We had our ground training school at junior college. Frank Boring: Oh, ok. Ground school is mainly like school classes, that kind of thing? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes. You have to have so many hours of ground school and pass the ground school test. Frank Boring: How many people were in a class? Mildred Jane Doyle: There were 30 altogether. Frank Boring: How many women? Mildred Jane Doyle: There were 3, but I was the only one that got my license. Frank Boring: That eventually passed? Three women out of the whole 30. Was there any kind of reaction from the guys, that you’re there? I mean, it’s so unusual! Mildred Jane Doyle: No, because I played in the band too. Frank Boring: Ok. Mildred Jane Doyle: And so, there were a lot of them from the band that were in that class. Frank Boring: Oh, ok! So you were accepted. Mildred Jane Doyle: I was accepted. Frank Boring: Oh, ok, I’m glad to hear that. Mildred Jane Doyle: And when I was in high school, I was an ROTC sponsor, so 8:05 I was accepted in that. I tried all these things [laughs] that sounded interesting! Frank Boring: An adventurous young lady. Oh my goodness! Ok, so ground school is pretty much classroom kind of stuff, all right. But now you’re getting into the actual training flying. Tell us about that—what is that experience like? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, I had to get out to the airport and my parents didn’t have a car, so that was a little problem, but I found a way to get out there. I think probably the bus or the �street car, maybe, I don’t know what went out there at that time. But it was every day, we had flight instruction. And after 6 hours, we soloed, and there was 36 hours of flight. Frank Boring: What kind of airplane were you flying? Mildred Jane Doyle: It was a Piper Cub. Frank Boring: Oh, ok. One seat? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, it was a tandem one, one in back of the other. Frank Boring: Ok, so the instructor would sit behind you. Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes. Frank Boring: You would then have to taxi and take off 9:05 and all the basic stuff first and eventually, you got a chance to solo. Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes. Frank Boring: What was that like? Mildred Jane Doyle: Oh, that was quite an experience! [laughs] But we had acrobatics too, we had an area where we would go out and do acrobatics and loops and we had to go through all those things in case of emergency, you know how to handle the plane. So I got my pilot license that summer. Frank Boring: That summer you’re living at home? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes. Frank Boring: Ok, and you’re taking the trolley or however—a Mildred Jane Doyle: Yeah, I don’t remember how I got there, but I got there! [laughs] Frank Boring: That’s the important thing. [laughs] Mildred Jane Doyle: I might’ve walked there. [laughs] Just to get there. Frank Boring: The actual training base itself, was it like one airplane, two airplanes, twenty airplanes, how big was this place? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, there were the two air services at the airport at that time, and there was Northern Air Service and Becker Air Service. And so there were twenty of them that were training 10:05 at Northern and ten at Becker. And so there was several planes but I think we only ever used one, I don’t remember. �Frank Boring: So the airport as we see it now, all our offices out at the airport, there nothing like that now… Mildred Jane Doyle: No, this was at the end of Madison Avenue. The old airport. Frank Boring: Ok, ok. All right. And so this was just, what kind of a runway was it? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, commercial planes came in and the Ford Tri Motor came in. And I think there was probably United Airlines flight in. They were small, but, it was just commercially too. Frank Boring: Ok. Was there a building out there and hangars and things like that? Mildred Jane Doyle: There were two hangars. Frank Boring: Ok. Just two hangars. Mildred Jane Doyle: Two hangars. Frank Boring: Two hangars. Oh my goodness. Was there a tower or anything? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes, there was a tower. Frank Boring: I’m just trying to visualize it, because I look at an airport today and you’re talking modern airport with the roads and all that. Mildred Jane Doyle: 11:05 It extended from about 28th Street, where Madison went just past 28th Street, I think. And from there over to about 42nd, 44th. It wasn’t too large but it was large enough for planes of that time period coming in. Frank Boring: Sure, sure. Was this an exciting time for you? Mildred Jane Doyle: Oh, it was. I loved it. [laughs] Frank Boring: We were talking before the interview and before we got on camera about how I had talked to so many pilots, I grew up in an airline family and pilots just have this excitement, they’re flying! They’re flying! Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, there were quite a few of them, fellows that weren’t in the program yet, they weren’t instructors but they were flying out there and they were barnstormers. Frank Boring: Oh my goodness. Mildred Jane Doyle: So I went barnstorming a few times with them too. �Frank Boring: You did? For those people who don’t know what barnstorming is, 12:05 explain what is barnstorming? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, they would fly to some small field out in the country and anybody that wanted to go up for a ride, they take for a ride and then they would do some stunts and that type thing. Frank Boring: Because this is before television, this is before all that kind of mass communications that we have, so it was exciting for people to see somebody actually get into a piece of wood… [laughs] Mildred Jane Doyle: [laughs] canvas and wood. Frank Boring: Canvas and wood, and fly around. And you say you barnstormed? Mildred Jane Doyle: I went with them. Frank Boring: Oh ok. Mildred Jane Doyle: And I flew some with them, but I didn’t do any of the acrobatics because I didn’t have my license. Frank Boring: So, when did you graduate, I mean, get your pilot’s license? What year was that? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, that was 1940 that I got my private license. Frank Boring: Right. Mildred Jane Doyle: And that was 35 hours of flight time. Frank Boring: What was the purpose of getting a pilot’s license? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, so I could fly if I wanted to. Frank Boring: Yeah, but is there any kind of career idea here, or? 13:05 Mildred Jane Doyle: No, not really. Well, I kind of wanted to be an airline stewardess but at that time you had to be a nurse to be an airline stewardess. And I couldn’t be a nurse! [laughs] That was one thing I couldn’t do. So I thought, well, maybe I can fly instead. Frank Boring: Because, the reason why I’m asking, Jane, is there really wasn’t many options, it’s not like you could go fly for UPS or go fly for United Airlines at that time. Mildred Jane Doyle: There were a few women in the country who were instructors at that time, but not very many because when the war started, there were about 39 that had, or about �45 that had commercial licenses or instructor’s license. And that was in the entire country at that time. Frank Boring: So, once you had your pilot’s license, you’re still in school? Mildred Jane Doyle: Mmhmm. Frank Boring: What happened next? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, then I went down to University of Michigan after that summer and you could, they had an advanced program down there but they wouldn’t let women 14:05 in it. Frank Boring: Even though you had a license? Mildred Jane Doyle: Even though I had a license. And in the advanced program, you’d get a commercial license. So, they had the Civil Air Patrol at that time, so I flew with the Civil Air Patrol to keep up my hours. You had to have so many hours a year. Frank Boring: What purpose, because, once again, people don’t know, what’s the Civil Air Patrol? Mildred Jane Doyle: It was a civilian group that was formed to, as observation pilots or rescue pilots and it still exists, the Civil Air Patrol. They did rescue work, looking for downed planes or something like that. Frank Boring: So this is almost like the fireman, these are volunteers, and you had to fly. So, something happens, maybe there’s a fire in a forest or something and you’d fly over to try and find people that may be on the ground? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes, it was more observation. Frank Boring: Observation? Ok. Mildred Jane Doyle: And of course, I didn’t have a plane, 15:05 so I flew with anybody that would take me. [laughs] Frank Boring: What happened next? In terms of American, Pearl Harbor is looming in the distance here. Is that the next major thing that happened to you? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, that’s, right after Pearl Harbor, that’s when I got a telegram from Jacqueline Cochran and she was looking for any women pilots in the country who were interested, that had a pilot license, for training. �Frank Boring: Ok, let’s not jump ahead too fast. Where were you and what was your reaction— how’d you find out about the attack on Pearl Harbor? Mildred Jane Doyle: I was in school at the time, it was a Sunday morning and I’d gone over to do some extra work over in the drafting room over in the College of Architecture, and while I was working there, someone came in and announced it. One of the other students had heard it on the radio, I presume. Frank Boring: Did you know where Pearl Harbor was? Mildred Jane Doyle: I knew where it was but I didn’t really know too much about it, 16:05 but I knew there was a Navy base there. Frank Boring: What was the reaction of the people around you? Mildred Jane Doyle: Everybody was just stunned because that was going to change mostly the men’s lives that were all there at school and a lot of them went right away or were drafted, well, they weren’t drafted but they signed up for the service. Frank Boring: So the school, and I told you earlier, I talked with Mary Jean Brooks, she was in college at the same time, it was like the whole college just disappeared, just the men, it was gone, is that what happened? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, quite a few but then they brought in programs, the Navy brought in the program that, V-12 or something, they had programs that the men would come and take so many courses at the university. And I think that probably kept them going during the war. Frank Boring: Yeah. They were— Mildred Jane Doyle: Military programs. Frank Boring: Yeah, military programs came in. But it was a completely different environment. Mildred Jane Doyle: Yeah, it was. Frank Boring: What was your reaction to Pearl Harbor? 17:05 In terms of you, personally, how, obviously, you said the men were either going to be drafted or they had to join, how was your reaction? Mildred Jane Doyle: I was just stunned, I don’t know what my reaction was but I know it was quite an experience to hear that at that time, I think we all probably went home and turned on our radios to see what was happening. �Frank Boring: Yeah, yeah. You know, the vets, certainly, that I’ve talked to, that remember that day so vividly, as you have, their course was set, they either waited to be drafted or they said, I’m going to join, so there was this purpose. What about you? Where there options, did you think about options you had or? Cause you didn’t have to go. Mildred Jane Doyle: No, but they weren’t really taking women yet at that time, see. So as soon as I got the telegram that they were looking for women pilots, why, I wanted to do it. Frank Boring: Explain who Cochran was. Mildred Jane Doyle: Jacqueline Cochran was head of the WASP program, she had, 18:05 she was an old-time pilot. Frank Boring: Did you know of her before? Mildred Jane Doyle: I had heard of her. Frank Boring: Ok. Mildred Jane Doyle: And she had won the Bendix Air Race, which was well know. Frank Boring: Oh, it’s like the Grand Prix! That was big! Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes, and she had won that. That was in 1938, and then she was invited by Eleanor Roosevelt to come and meet she and the president, and then she at the time said that if there was ever a time that women pilots were needed, that she was sure she could get enough women pilots to serve. And so she sent out this telegram for those that were interested. And of course I responded right away. [laughs] But I promised my parents that I would finish college first before I went in. Frank Boring: Well let’s, I realize this was a long time ago and it’s difficult to dig through all those cobwebs sometimes but, 19:05 when you got the telegram, what was your reaction to that? Mildred Jane Doyle: Oh, I was thrilled, because I thought, here was my chance to really fly! And do something. Frank Boring: How old were you? You were about 20-something right? Twenty…? Mildred Jane Doyle: This was 1942. Frank Boring: ’42, ok, so… Mildred Jane Doyle: I was 21. Frank Boring: 21 years old. �Mildred Jane Doyle: Mmhmm. Frank Boring: And here’s this woman that you’d heard about, she won the Bendix and you got this telegram saying, are you with—what does the telegram actually say? Mildred Jane Doyle: Just if I was interested and wanted more information to respond to it and more information would follow. Frank Boring: So what happened next, what did you do? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, I just waited and then finally I got the notice to go to Selfridge Field. Frank Boring: Wait a minute, you didn’t just wait 20:05 because you responded, right? [SKIP IN DVD] Frank Boring: Were you part of the first wave or the second wave or the third or? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, right about in the middle. Frank Boring: Ok, ok. So women had already gone through this? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes, every month there was a new class. And they had started in Houston because there wasn’t any place for them to go. And they say, we paid our own way there and there were no uniforms or anything. Frank Boring: Wow. Well, what did you wear? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, then when we were there we wore these coveralls. Frank Boring: You talking about one of those, the zipper, you step into in one of those one piece things? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well there were no zippers, they had buttons. Frank Boring: Oh, ok. Mildred Jane Doyle: They were a coverall, a one-piece coverall. Frank Boring: Yeah, yeah. I know what you mean now. Mildred Jane Doyle: And the flight suits we had, it was November, you know, when I started training down there, and we flew open-cockpit planes. So our flight suits were the heavy leather ones with sheep lining and they were rather large too and the boots were large. Everything was large, helmets. Frank Boring: Like canvas? �Mildred Jane Doyle: No, it was a leather helmet. Frank Boring: Leather helmet, 21:05 ok. Covering the ears? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yeah. Frank Boring: Ok. All right, yeah, yeah. What were you flying? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well when we got there, we flew PT19s, which was the Fairchild’s. It was the first trainer and after about 4 hours in that, they brought in Stearmans which is the PT17. Frank Boring: Which is what the men were training in too. The Stearman, yeah. Mildred Jane Doyle: So we finished our primary training in Stearmans. Frank Boring: Now where were you staying? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, there were barracks on the base, and we stayed there and ate there and we could get off for a few hours on the weekend sometimes. Frank Boring: Into Sweetwater? [laughs] The metropolis of Sweetwater? [laughs] Mildred Jane Doyle: [laughs] Well, there wasn’t much in Sweetwater. Frank Boring: Well, give me, let me try to understand the actual base itself. How many barracks were there, I mean, not an exact number, but, approximately? Two, three? Mildred Jane Doyle: No, maybe ten. But they were long barracks 22:05 with a courtyard in between. There were six of us in one room. And there was a little— Frank Boring: Stacked bunks? Mildred Jane Doyle: No, side by side. Then there was the bathroom in between and then six more on the other side. Frank Boring: Showers? Mildred Jane Doyle: There were showers, yes. Frank Boring: Ok, so there were showers, where did you eat? Mildred Jane Doyle: We ate in the mess hall. Frank Boring: So there was actually a physical mess hall. [garbled] just like you see in the military [garbled] slop, slop, slop? �Mildred Jane Doyle: Green beans, I never wanted to see another green bean again. [laughs] Even for breakfast, green beans. And then we had physical, PT, physical training. And ground school— Frank Boring: What was a typical day like? I mean, like you get up in the morning, explain how that whole day went. Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, we got up with the bugle call. And it was about 6 o’clock in the morning, the bugle call. And then we went to the mess hall and ate. And then it was divided 23:05 that one group would go to flight school and the other group would go to flight training. Now, we were divided into two groups and there were, let’s see, about 40 in my class, so 20 in each group. Frank Boring: And you were part of the, which part were you with? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, alphabetically. So it went to the middle of the alphabet. So I was in one group, but like I say, one group would go to flight training while the other was in ground school, and the next week it would change, alternate. Frank Boring: Alternate. Mildred Jane Doyle: We had flight school in the morning, we had flight work in the morning, and then we had ground school in the afternoon. Frank Boring: I see. And sometimes vice versa? Mildred Jane Doyle: And sometimes vice versa. Frank Boring: What was the physical training like? Mildred Jane Doyle: It was calisthenics and push ups and chin—when you go like that [motions], [laughs] everything! Frank Boring: Was there a drill instructor? Mildred Jane Doyle: Mmhmm. Frank Boring: Male or female. Mildred Jane Doyle: Male. Frank Boring: Obviously 24:05 in the movies and TV, they’re screaming in your face. Mildred Jane Doyle: [laughs] It was sort of like that. Frank Boring: Was it? Ok. So they were really… �Mildred Jane Doyle: We had to go through the same training the cadets went through. It was the same program. Frank Boring: Was there any, and I know we’re talking about school here, but was there any indication that they were treating you differently than they were the men? Mildred Jane Doyle: Some of the instructors, they were civilian instructors that we had, and there were some of them that sort of resented that we were getting military training and they weren’t in the service. Frank Boring: Themself. Mildred Jane Doyle: Some people had problems, but if you didn’t get out of line, why, you were all right. Frank Boring: You pretty much just did what you were told to do. How did you put up with the physical, I mean, did you adapt ok and were physically healthy and, 25:05 it was hard but you could get through it? You’re tired at the end of the night? Mildred Jane Doyle: Oh, yes. And getting up in the morning, I’m not a morning person, so that was bad. [laughs] And then we had barracks inspection where you had to have everything just spotless. It was the same training. Frank Boring: It’s interesting because you’re civilians yet you’re being treated like you’re in the military. It’s basic training! Mildred Jane Doyle: It was, uh huh. And even after we graduated, we were still civilians, but we were under military orders. Frank Boring: At that time, did you get communication from outside, did you get newspapers, radio, did you know what was going on in the world? Mildred Jane Doyle: Not much, mostly through letter from home and that type of thing. Frank Boring: So you were communicating with your family? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes. Frank Boring: Did you keep those letters? Mildred Jane Doyle: No. I didn’t. [laughs] Frank Boring: Oh! Don’t tell a historian that, not on television! All right. 26:05 Were you homesick? �Mildred Jane Doyle: Not really, I was too busy to be homesick. I was doing something that I liked to do. Frank Boring: Yeah, that’s what I figured. Mildred Jane Doyle: And I just kept in touch with my parents and knew what was going on at home, so. And they were thrilled that I was in it. Frank Boring: What about concern for your brother? Where was he? Mildred Jane Doyle: He was in the Pacific on a destroyer and his destroyer was hit, but he came out of it all right. Frank Boring: But there was still concern there. Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes. Frank Boring: What’s going to happen? Mildred Jane Doyle: Mmhmm. Frank Boring: You graduated. Was there a ceremony? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes. Frank Boring: What was that like? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, Jacqueline Cochran and General Arnold came. Frank Boring: [gasp] Hap Arnold? Wow! Mildred Jane Doyle: And we were presented our wings. And see, for the first few classes, Jacqueline Cochran bought the wings, the military, they wouldn’t even buy the wings for us. And so, 27:05 up until about 2 classes before mine, the wings were different for each class. When they started out in the Ferry Command, they had the gold bonnet, and after that the wings had the number of the class on it, but then it was a standard wing with a diamond shape in the center for the rest of the classes. And I can remember graduation very well because when Jacqueline Cochran gave me my wings, she said, “How did you get in here?” Because I was so short! [laughs] And one of the girls, one of my best friends, was one of my barracks mates was almost 6 feet tall and the two of us were around together most of the time, and they called us Mutt and Jeff! [laughs] But I kept trying to stretch. And when I’d fly I’d have to take 3 pillows with me. Frank Boring: Oh my goodness! That moment when Cochran pins on your wings, that had to be amazing. �Mildred Jane Doyle: It was. My parents had come too, from Grand Rapids, 28:05 they came down for the ceremony and they were there. Frank Boring: See the closest I can associate to that, was I made Eagle Scout in the Boy Scouts and my father was the one that pinned on my medal and I will always remember that for the rest of my life, that moment where they just, and you’re just standing there and…you got your wings. Mildred Jane Doyle: See they would have a parade of all the classes, march by a reviewing stand, and the same as the cadets program. Frank Boring: Did Cochran make a speech? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes. Frank Boring: It was a inspirational, you women are, I mean, what was the gist of it, what do you remember about it? Mildred Jane Doyle: I don’t remember. [laughs] Frank Boring: So what happened after graduation? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well then I got a flight back to, I happened to know a fellow that was from Detroit and he was stationed at a nearby air base. And so he got leave 29:05 and flew me back to Detroit. [laughs] Frank Boring: This is something unheard of today, there’s no way this could happen. But I’ve talked to other vets from this area who were pilots, one of whom he married his wife, flew her back to Grand Rapids before they were married, flew her back there and that really impressed her that he could fly her to Grand Rapids in his airplane. Mildred Jane Doyle: Yeah, we flew into Romulus and then I got the train home from Romulus. Frank Boring: Wow. Well, what were your options then, I mean, what are you supposed to be doing after you graduated? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, I had orders to go to Freedman Field in Seymour, Indiana, there were 10 days, we had 10 days leave. And then I had to report to Seymour, Indiana, June 1. Frank Boring: And you got there by train? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes. That was another train ride I remember. [laughs] Getting out and taking the cab back to the base and… �Frank Boring: Oh my goodness. Were you being paid during this period of time? Did you have a salary? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes, we got $200 a month. We got the same, I think the same 30:05 as the officers got at that time. Frank Boring: 200 bucks a month during…that’s a lot of money, actually. Mildred Jane Doyle: Mmhmm. But see, we had to pay for our own lodging and everything, so— Frank Boring: Yeah, your expenses were not covered. Mildred Jane Doyle: Yeah, but we were in [garbled], but I was lucky cause I got to stay in the nurses’ quarters on the base. They didn’t know where to put me when I got there. Frank Boring: All men, it’s all men there. Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, there were two other WASPs there, but they were living in town. And so when I got there, they said if I wanted to live in the nurses’ quarters, I could live there. And so that was convenient cause then I could walk to the flight line. Frank Boring: Give us an idea of this base, cause it’s a big place? Mildred Jane Doyle: It was a good-sized base it was the Advanced 1 Training School. In fact, the field is still there and they have reunions now 31:05 for people who were stationed there to get to go back. Frank Boring: So these nurses, were they in training? Mildred Jane Doyle: No, they were nurses for the base hospital. Frank Boring: Hospital. So this is a pretty big base. Mildred Jane Doyle: It was a good-sized base. Frank Boring: All right, what was your daily routine like during that period. You’re living with the nurses, there’s three, two others… Mildred Jane Doyle: Two others. Frank Boring: Two others in town. Mildred Jane Doyle: We were all assigned to the maintenance hangar. So we did test flights. Frank Boring: So every morning you would go there to the flight line, and what did you do? �Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, there was usually a flight that had to be tested every day. And if there wasn’t, why lots of times there were other personnel from the base that had to be flown to one of the other bases or supplies or something and we’d do those flights. Frank Boring: What kind of airplanes are we talking about? Mildred Jane Doyle: It was the advanced one-engine AT-10 Trainer. Frank Boring: They’re still trainers. Mildred Jane Doyle: Yeah. Frank Boring: So even though you’re ferrying people to destinations around the area, 32:05 you’re still doing it in a trainer? Mildred Jane Doyle: Mmhmm. It was a good-sized trainer, it had the two seats. Frank Boring: Two seats. Somebody comes to the base and they need to fly to X, somewhere, and so you get an assignment saying you need to go here. How did you know how to get there? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well we had [garbled] and flight map and… Frank Boring: What are the maps like in those days, were you flying by landmarks? Mildred Jane Doyle: Mostly by landmarks, but during training, we did have instrument training. So I had an instrument license. We never flew actual instrument flights but we had the Link Trainer, so we got the instrument rating. The only radio communication was, at that time, was a beam. And you flew, it was either dot dash or dash dot and it you flew on the beam you got the solid signal. If you got off the beam 33:05 on the right you’d get another signal and on the left you’d get the other signal. Frank Boring: These are not open cockpit now, are they? Mildred Jane Doyle: No. Frank Boring: Now you have closed cockpit, ok. What were you dressed like at this time, what were you wearing? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well after we graduated, we did get a uniform. And we had to pay for our uniform. [laughs] It was a blue, they called it Santiago blue. And it was a jacket an d slacks and a skirt and a purse and a hat. Frank Boring: The slacks you wore when you were flying, and the skirt you wore when you were at formal things, like that. �Mildred Jane Doyle: Yeah. And one time when I was flying, I had to go to, Cincinnati, I think it was, and I had my slacks on. And I had a flat tire when I got up there, so I had to stay overnight, and they wouldn’t let me in the dining room of the hotel because I had slacks on. [laughs] And I said, “Well, this is a uniform, this is all I have.” And they said, “Sorry, you can’t eat in here.” [laughs] Frank Boring: I was just going to ask about that, yep. It’s amazing to thing about, that time, women in slacks. 34:05 Today, you know, we think about jeans and… Mildred Jane Doyle: Yeah, it’s casual apparel now. Frank Boring: But they wouldn’t let you in to eat because you had slacks on. There’s three of you, then at this base, basically doing the same types of things, right? You were talking about testing aircraft, what did that entail? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well if one of the cadets came in and said, you know, something was wrong with the plane, we’d take it up for a test flight and see what was wrong and then maintenance would work on it. And then after engine change, it had to have so many hours of slow time on the planes, and we’d do that. So we were busy, the three of us. Frank Boring: Was there any social life? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes. [laughs] That’s where I met my husband. [laughs] Frank Boring: Ok, let’s get down to it, here. Well, what happened? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, there really wasn’t that much social life on the base, except for 35:05 the married people that were on the base. But some of the married people would accept me very well and we would do things together. And they were friends of my husband’s so we would do things together. Frank Boring: Well, how did you meet him? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, he happened to be a check pilot and I had to be checked out in the AT-10. [laughs] Frank Boring: You’re in your slacks and your uniform and you walk up to meet this guy you’ve never seen before. Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, I was supposed to be checked out by somebody else but he said, “Let me do it.” [laughs] Frank Boring: Oh, really? You realize, of course, I’m going to interview him and I’m going to get his side of the story. �Mildred Jane Doyle: So that’s how I met him and he said, you know, would you like to go out for dinner, and things like that, so. Frank Boring: Oh my goodness. How long was that period of time, it terms of your dating, you’re still at work and everything but now you’re dating, you’re going to dinner, movies, things like that? Mildred Jane Doyle: Mmhmm. 36:05 He had been an instructor for quite a few years so he had quite a few friends there. So we did quite a few things off the base. Frank Boring: Did you like him from the beginning? Mildred Jane Doyle: No, I was scared of him. [laughs] Frank Boring: Cause he was an instructor with experience. Mildred Jane Doyle: Cause he was so strict. I remember one time coming in for a landing and he cut the engines on me, you know, and I had to quick respond and he was a good instructor, very good. Frank Boring: That’s wonderful. I’m going to ask him the same questions, by the way. I know in my parents’ case, I talked to my dad about how he met my mom and how my mom…you know sometimes the stories don’t always sync up. Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, that’s it, I was walking down the road to the flight line, probably a week after I’d been there and he came along and wanted to know if I wanted a ride and I said, “No, I’ll walk.” [laughs] I wasn’t too sure at first. Frank Boring: How long was that period of time 37:05 where you were working…where’d you go next from there? Mildred Jane Doyle: I stayed there because the program ended then in December of ’44. This was June of ’44 that I went there, and September we got a notice that the program might be disbanded because the vote was coming up in Congress whether to make us part of the military and it didn’t pass, so the program was going to be disbanded in December. Frank Boring: What is W-A-S-P? Mildred Jane Doyle: Women’s Airforce Service Pilots. Frank Boring: But they were not considered a part of the American military. Mildred Jane Doyle: No. It wasn’t until 1977 that Congress approved legislation to make us part of…that gave us veterans status. And then it took two years after that, we were finally �discharged. [laughs] We hadn't been in the service but we got a discharge, 38:05 an honorable discharge. So it was a lot of politics going on at that time. Frank Boring: So technically you were in the military, if you didn’t get discharged, you were in the military for some 30 years or something. That’s amazing. How did you hear about the V-E Day, the Victory in Europe? Do you remember the Victory in Europe? The Nazis had been defeated. Mildred Jane Doyle: Yeah, I trying to think if that’s… I remember about Japan, but I don’t remember V-E Day. Frank Boring: Ok, but you were still there, you were still at that training base? [garbled] Mildred Jane Doyle: I don’t think so. When was V-E Day? [laughs] Frank Boring: May of ’45. Mildred Jane Doyle: See, the base was closed and I was 39:05 already out by then. Frank Boring: You were already out of the WASPs, ok. Mildred Jane Doyle: Yeah, I think we were out in Dodge City, Kansas at that time cause he was still in the service. Frank Boring: Well, did you get married at that time? Mildred Jane Doyle: I got married in August of ’44. Frank Boring: All right, so you meet him for the first time, he’s very intimidating because he’s this instructor, he’s very strict. Ok. But he’s dating you, he’s wooing you, did he pop the question there? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yeah. Frank Boring: Ok. So he asked for your hand in marriage. Mildred Jane Doyle: We got married there at the air base. And one of the other WASPs had met her husband there and they were supposed to get married that date and he outranked the other fellow, so they had to wait a week. [laughs] Frank Boring: Well what about your respective parents, his parents and your parents, they were not there, right? Mildred Jane Doyle: No. 40:05 They didn’t really approve. Frank Boring: Really? �Mildred Jane Doyle: No, they thought it was sort of hasty, but it was. Frank Boring: They were concerned because it’s just the military and you’re just meeting this guy, very short period of time. But you’re stuck together for how many years? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, 61 now. So it worked. Frank Boring: It worked! Mildred Jane Doyle: It worked. It’s amazing, other couples I know too, at the same time, knew each other just a short period of time, they’re still together. Frank Boring: The experience, then, during that period of time, as a WASP there, did you go outside of there, or pretty much that was your military service was there? Mildred Jane Doyle: I got orders to go to Panama City, Florida, to B-26 training for tow-target. And it was just at the same time that I got the notice that the program was going to be disbanded. So instead of going to Florida, I had to turn right around and come back. We could resign. 41:05 And so, I resigned in October. And the program was disbanded in December. Frank Boring: Did you have any idea that you were part of, at that time, what we now know as the WASPs, ok, and there’s a lot of publicity about it, it’s part of American history now, did you have any idea that you were part of this ground-breaking, new, pioneer, all those kind of words that you probably never used back then, did you have any idea back then? Mildred Jane Doyle: No and it wasn’t really till, well, for 20 years afterwards, well 40 years afterwards, because it was from 1944 to 1977, when an article came out in the paper that the first woman pilot for the military was graduating from the Air Force academy. And that stirred things up, the WASPs got busy then, with the help of General Arnold’s son, he lobbied to get the legislation through that we were part of the military. 42:05 But for that 40-year period, nobody knew who the WASPs were, really. Frank Boring: Once you resigned from the program, you’re married, where’d you go from there? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well the base closed then in December too, the first of January, so from there, why, we went to Dodge City, Kansas. Frank Boring: Your husband? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yeah. Frank Boring: He was assigned there? �Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes. And then to San Antonio, Texas, and then Douglas, Arizona, because the war was ending then, in fact, when we were on our way to Douglas, Arizona, that’s when the Japanese surrendered. Frank Boring: You heard on the radio? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yeah, in the car. I think we were in Kansas then. Frank Boring: What was your reaction? Mildred Jane Doyle: Oh, we were just thrilled it was going to be over with. Frank Boring: Was your brother already back? Mildred Jane Doyle: I don’t remember. I don’t think so. 43:05 Frank Boring: Cause I’m just thinking the relief must also have been directed toward your brother’s finally going to get back. Well, what did your husband decide to do after V-J Day was, where did you go? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, then he stayed in a while, then, he was in Japan after the war. Frank Boring: Oh Occupation of Japan. You stayed here? Mildred Jane Doyle: Mmhmm, I stayed here. I was all set to go over there but because he had no previous overseas experience, he was an instructor during the war, I’d get to the top of the list and then I’d go to the bottom of the list for dependents because others that had overseas experience were chosen first. Frank Boring: How long was he overseas? Mildred Jane Doyle: He was, oh, about 18 months…maybe a year, but it was quite a while. Frank Boring: Yeah. Where did you stay? Mildred Jane Doyle: I stayed at home with my parents. Frank Boring: And you communicated by letter? Mildred Jane Doyle: Mmhmm. Frank Boring: He didn’t keep any of those? Mildred Jane Doyle: No. [laughs] 44:05 Frank Boring: Oh! �Mildred Jane Doyle: I didn’t think about it at the time. Frank Boring: I know, I understand. When you stayed at your parents’ house, what did you do for livelihood, did you just stay there and you were…did you go to work or? Mildred Jane Doyle: I got a job around Christmas time, downtown in Grand Rapids. But then I had a child, one child so I stayed at home and helped them out. Frank Boring: Yeah. What about flying though? Mildred Jane Doyle: I went out to the airport to keep up my license. But I finally decided it wasn’t worth it because, unless I could fly for a purpose—just to rent a plane and fly to keep up, it didn’t, I did it for a while, but then I thought, well… Frank Boring: Was there any thought on your part to become a pilot commercially, or were there opportunities? 45:05 Mildred Jane Doyle: Not many opportunities, not around here. There were in California and areas like that where there were a lot of aviation enterprises but around this area there weren’t. Frank Boring: And you wanted to stay here. Mildred Jane Doyle: Mmhmm. Frank Boring: Because of family, because of…? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yeah, and well, when he came back from Japan, he got out of the service and stayed in the reserve and kept going to Selfridge Field once a month for training. Frank Boring: Well why didn’t you move back to where he lived? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, there wasn’t anything over there. You ever heard of Cuba City, Wisconsin? Frank Boring: No. Mildred Jane Doyle: [laughs] That’s where he was from. [laughs] Frank Boring: Ok, not a lot to do in Cuba City. Mildred Jane Doyle: We were over there, he was looking for work over there around the Milwaukee area, but then one of my parents’ neighbors knew of an opening here, so we came back here and he worked for that company for 30 years. �Frank Boring: Wow. Ok, so you settled down, in Grand Rapids, raised a family. 46:05 When you were living your life as a wife, as a mother, your husband is working, were there ever thoughts of nostalgia for flying and all that? Mildred Jane Doyle: Very much so. Frank Boring: Yeah? Well, tell me about it. Mildred Jane Doyle: Still, as soon as I hear an airplane, I look up. But I always wished I had kept on, flying some. Frank Boring: There’s nothing like it, huh? Mildred Jane Doyle: No, that’s it. It’s just, when you’re sitting up there and looking down on everything, you’re in a different world. And it’s really, it’s a wonderful experience. I don’t care about flying commercially because they go so you can’t even see the ground at high altitude. And you know, cramped, it’s just a small plane flying around, it’s just a different feeling. Frank Boring: When the 1970s arrives 47:05 and the first woman was recognized, how did you find out about that and what was your reaction to it? Mildred Jane Doyle: There was an article in Grand Rapids’ paper, her picture was in [garbled] first woman pilot for the military. And I thought, that’s not right! We were all, all of us were part of that, really. We flew every military plane there was, the WASPs did, and even the B-29, some flew that. Frank Boring: Well, you saw this in the paper, your reaction, as you just stated was, wait a minute, this isn’t right. I mean, I’m sure you were happy for her. Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes. Frank Boring: Well what happened after? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, shortly after that I started getting letters and petitions for signatures to make us part of the military, to recognize 48:05 us as having been pilots for the military. Frank Boring: And then soon afterwards? Mildred Jane Doyle: It took it quite a while, the Stars and Stripes newspaper kept, weekly, sending us issues telling us what was going on. And it took quite a while before it was finally approved. Frank Boring: I grew up on the Stars and Stripes, I know exactly the things that— �Mildred Jane Doyle: So, yeah, I saved all those. Frank Boring: Oh, wow, you do have those. Mildred Jane Doyle: I have those. I have a lot of other things, but not letters. [laughs] Frank Boring: Ok. All right, you are now forgiven. The process took a period of time, but once it was finally decided that, you know, they were recognizing you, what was your reaction to that? Mildred Jane Doyle: Oh, I was glad to be recognized. Cause then I got the discharge afterwards so… Frank Boring: Did you feel you were part of the military the whole period of time you were in? 49:05 Mildred Jane Doyle: While we were training and while I was at Seymour. Cause I say, you had to follow military orders and everything, so. Frank Boring: You know, a similar thing happened, I interviewed several nurses, they were Red Cross, they weren’t military, they were Red Cross. And then, finally, they were military nurses. And it’s, you know, you look back on that period of time, and then flash forward to now, and we take these things for granted today. Nobody, I don’t want to say nobody, but there just seems to be this forgotten part of the pioneers that were involved. And I know you never thought of yourself as a pioneer, but really, I mean, when you stop to think about it, you broke ground for people. You gave opportunities to people that are 20 years old today and have all these options, all these options. Mildred Jane Doyle: That’s it, they recruit women for the military now, where then, at that time, well, I think, the Navy, 50:05 the women work actually in the Navy, after a time they were considered part of the military. Frank Boring: Yeah, that’s what happened to Mary Jean. Did you follow the career of Cochran? Mildred Jane Doyle: Yes, because we had reunions and she was a part of the reunions. And then she even invited us all out to her ranch in California, for one of the reunions, it was out there. And she was a real pioneer in women’s aviation. Frank Boring: Well she was the public face of it, and as you say, she really pushed for it. Mildred Jane Doyle: There was Cochran and Amelia Earhart and Nancy Love, they were really the three [garbled] women pilots. But there was one way back before that, I know, I have a book, the history of women in aviation. And they started out 51:05 more or less as hanging from balloons and different things, you know, in circuses and walking wings and �that type of thing, but the first woman pilot got her license in about 1929, something like that. Frank Boring: Wow, yeah. These reunions that you refer to, the one where Cochran was at, what was that experience like? You’re amongst all these fellow pilots, you don’t know many of them or maybe you don’t know any of them, but you’re part of a common group, though. Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, those of us that were in the same class would sort of go to the reunions and stay more or less with the people from their classes. But then those that were stationed at different bases had contact with the others. And I know here in Michigan, there’s about eight in Michigan now. Frank Boring: Oh ok. I, because of my father, I’m very closely related 52:05 to the Flying Tigers, the Flying Tigers reunions, and I feel that sense of family, because they were part of a common experience, do you feel that way with your group? Mildred Jane Doyle: When you’re with them you do, that you’re all part of one big group. Frank Boring: And now that you’ve been recognized, now that the world knows what a WASP is and it’s in the books and whatnot, when you go to reunions now, is there more of a sharing of this experience, this feeling of belonging to this group? Mildred Jane Doyle: Well, that’s it, there’s fewer and fewer every year. And so the reunions are getting smaller. They still have the reunions every two years. I didn’t go to the last one in Washington. But, just a couple of months ago, it wasn’t an actual reunion in Washington but we were invited to come 53:05 go through the White House and I didn’t get to do that either. But you know, the group has stuck together, you know, and trying to carry on the legacy and there’s some that have really been promoting the legacy of the WASPs and trying to do things that they will be remembered. Frank Boring: They should be. And you know, we were talking before we actually started the oral history interview, that, so many of the vets that I talk to, they were, course, 20 years old, 18, 19, 22, you’re focused on what you’re doing, your world was falling apart around you, you had to do your part to make sure we have the freedoms that we have today. It’s, I guess it’s amazing to me because, I was one of the lucky ones that didn’t have to go to war. And you’re part of a story that will live forever. Let me ask you this: your experience 54:05 in the WASPs, in the military, and we’ll call it that because they finally recognized it in the 1970s, how did that shape you as a person? Mildred Jane Doyle: I get upset now with the protestors and people that disregard, well not disregard, but have no respect for the flag, and things that go on now, I think, they have �no idea what people went through to make the country as it is and to protest and do that type of thing, I get upset with them. Frank Boring: You raised a family. Did you instill into your children the values that you got from your parents, the education, for example, did you really stress to them the importance of education, 55:05 stress to them the importance of being who they are, to find their own voice. Mildred Jane Doyle: I think so, I have five children and one didn’t go to college, no problem there, but the others all did and they’ve all turned out very well. Frank Boring: Cause I was very impressed with the fact that when we first started this interview, you talked about your parents stressing education, stressing how important it was for you. And when you stop to think about the number of women of your generation whose parents basically said, get married, have kids, you want to be a nurse, all right, be a nurse, but they encouraged you to go beyond. Mildred Jane Doyle: I probably didn’t as much with my children, I don’t know, tried to but probably not as much as my parents did. Because it was really important to them. Because they said, when I got the notice to join the WASPs, they said, finish your education first and I said, I will. 56:05 Because I respected them for what they had gone through to put me through college. Frank Boring: Let’s go back to moments that you remember from the WASP period. We’ve gone chronologically through, we’ve kind of walked through, but are there any stories that kind of stick out for you? Things that happened when you were a WASP? Either on a flight or? Mildred Jane Doyle: I remember one flight, it was a cross-country, an extended cross-country flight, and it was in Advanced Training, we had to take a 500-mile cross-country flight. And it was from Sweetwater through Oklahoma and Arkansas and I think Louisiana and Mississippi, around that area. And course, we had our instrument training at that time, but we had never flown instruments 57:00 At 57:00, interview begins fast forwarding, then stops. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Doyle, Mildred Jane (Interview transcript and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Doyle, Mildred Jane Description An account of the resource Mildred Doyle was born in 1921 in Grand Rapids, Michigan and served in the Womens Airforce Service Pilots Corp. She became a pilot during college, and then was requested to serve in the WASP corp. She worked, after training, on Freeman Field in Seymour, Indiana as a test pilot and ferrying people around the area. She went home when the WASPs were disbanded, and served as a homemaker in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Air Force World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-06-26 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DoyleJ Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/01b26df368630f0e967ff152d87cbe1c.m4v 23b7a32f613640e146f3ab3dfb15dedd https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9063e84106e0150819d116dc782cb7db.pdf 242e4fc07a0b4a4a5b9f5e3ce09fd986 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project World War II William Doucette Length of Interview (00:51:10) Background (00:00:35) Born in 1921; the Upper Peninsula of Michigan in the copper mining region Father worked for two dollars a day, four days a week; family of eight children Father had developed a lung condition from World War I; put in the duty of night watchman  His father kept that job until 1941 when Doucette was able to send him money to move to Chicago Doucette finished high school; went to Chicago to apply for a job  An engineering department of a company  Didn’t have a degree, but had five years of engineering and architectural experience from high school  Was sent to Brookeville, Indiana to get more practical experience  Put together caskets for an automatic sprinkling system  Stayed at a boarding house for seven dollars a week  Worked for two years at different plants and companies Was 17 at the time and hated that he had to move around so often  Would often write home saying how he wanted to return, but he didn’t have enough money to do so  “This is the age of specialization,” his father always encouraged him At the age of 19, he got into the engineering department in 1941; moved to Chicago  Made enough money to send for his father and two sisters  His sisters also got jobs �Heard about Pearl Harbor over the radio (00:04:40) During high school, was aware of the War in Europe and felt Hitler needed to be stopped Training (00:05:05) Signed up for the CMTC (Citizen’s Military Training Camp) Summer Program for 2 years  Lived in tents with the infantry at Fort Brady in Sault Sainte Marie  1st year, was 15 (had to be 16 to get in, so Doucette told them he was); hitchhiked there (took about four days)  Did a lot close-order drill; officer candidate, a four-year program, commission  Qualified in: 1918 Springfield rifle, 50 caliber machine gun (WWI vintage), 40 caliber pistol, gas mask drills (chlorine, phosgene, and mustard gas) o The camp had canisters of poisonous gas from WWI o Had to identify the gas before putting on the mask, if the mask was put on too quickly, that person would be sent back to do it again o Did this so that they knew whether or not a gas was being used, recognition; phosgene had the most innocuous smell, like freshly mown hay  Went to work at the age of 19, so Doucette was not able to finish the program Aviation Cadet Program (00:07:50) January or February, checked out the Navy, Marines, Army, as well as, the Aviation Cadet Program Aviation Cadet Program was very strict  Had to be at least 20 but younger than 25  Very strict mental and physical conditions  Needed two years of college  The requirements then changed to taking an equivalency test, which Doucette passed o Was a very slow process, had to take physical examinations o Wait a couple months later to take a mental examination o Sworn in months afterwards �Started May of ’42 (00:08:50) Went to Nashville, Tennessee for classification Then Kelly Field in San Antonio, Texas for Pre-flight  Involved a great deal of discipline; had a great deal more of close-order drill (marching in formation) than the army  For close-order drill, wore white gloves (so they had to be very precise) and carried rifles with fixed bayonets  Formal retreat parade every night with white gloves  A lot of classes: Theory of Flight, map reading, Morse Code, plane identification (by silhouette), ship identification also by silhouette (had to identify Japanese, British, German, etc. ships and planes)  Doucette did well with his classes, enjoyed it  Busy from 6AM-9PM, only an hour of down-time, didn’t get leave to go into town  10PM, lights out  A lot of classes, the instructors were mainly officers, had some civilian instructors 9 weeks of training (Pre-flight) Went into Primary Training in Hatbox Field, Muskogee, Oklahoma (00:11:47)  Flew a PT-17 (Primary Trainer No. 17), 175 Horsepower with Allison Inline Engine  Was an exhilarating feeling  Accidents did happen because some cadets panicked, a few died After Primary, went into Basic Flight Training (00:12:55)  Flew many different planes, still all single engine  All had a sliding covers, two seaters (for an instructor)  Washed-out during this time �“Check Flight” (00:13:48) Had an instructor for Theory in Flight, said they were going out for a Check Flight  Kind of like an impartial review, another instructor would attend this  Tell the pilots everything they need to do before the flight begins; did a string of aerobatics  Went into a spin (shouldn’t be below 4500 square feet), altimeters were not very accurate; did most of it by feel o Didn’t know the instructor that was evaluating him  Wasn’t aware of a problem with the spin until he pulled back in the stick; the instructor did this, as well, but then he passed out, momentarily  Pulled out of the spin without any trouble, other than that; landed and waited for the good news  Was told that his “recklessness” would get him killed and that they didn’t have enough planes to spare; basically told that he could no longer continue in the program o Felt that the instructor had been drinking (a rule in flight training: no alcohol 24 hours before a flight), and that is what contributed to his passing out Instrument Flying School (00:18:33) Was shipped out after this; went to Coffeyville, Kansas where he just hung around Stayed there for two or three weeks, heard about Instrument Flying School in Randolph Field, Texas where he applied and was accepted  Wasn’t qualified for In-flight training, but could train in a simulator  Link Trainer, basically learn how to fly by instrument (Doucette describes it in more detail in the interview) (00:19:40)  Was like a civilian job, eight hour shifts  Had Captain and Majors come in, too  Eventually became a Corporal �New Guinea and Philippines (00:22:00) Chose to go overseas, felt he wasn’t doing enough  Did a lot of survival training  Camp Kearns outside of Salt Lake City, Utah  There for about three weeks Went to Camp Stoneman in Pittsburg, California where he waited to be shipped out 4000 men in a freighter Goal was Hollandia, New Guinea in 31 days, no stops  Boring, crowded, frightening; no convoy  Was never told where they were going; the journey took so long because the Japanese controlled the Pacific  Only knew they were heading quite a ways south Arrived in New Guinea, ’44 (00:25:50) During the journey, the men seldom went on deck; there were a few storms Describes a submarine alert (00:26:50) The first thing they saw were nude native men on the beach (00:27:50) Doucette and the others stayed in tents Eventually went to Finschhafen (New Guinea) then Leyte (Philippines), around late ’44 (00:29:05) Didn’t do much, volunteered to drive trucks and jeeps, also stood guard Went to Tacloban Air Base on Leyte. One time, heard a scraping on the side of the tent and thought it may have been an intruder (Japanese were known for infiltrating Air Force Bases and camps); and readied his Thomson sub-machine gun he was standing guard with; prematurely �cocked it and blew six holes into the top of the tent, found out later that it was an animal scraping against the side (in the Philippines at this time) (00:29:55) The Japanese would infiltrate mainly for food Some of the Filipino citizens, mainly women and children, would come by the base to do laundry or receive food Went to Andorra, Philippines then Floridablanca; about 50 miles away from Manila (00:33:33) Did very little there, stopped paying him for four months; didn’t have a place to spend the money anyway When going to Manila, saw only wrecked buildings Left the Philippines from Floridablanca, didn’t know where he was being sent to (00:34:55) Being sent to a convoy; the driver was extremely reluctant to drive through the Zigzag Pass  A mountain pass, treacherous  Proceeded very slowly  A Runner informed them that the Japanese had put down a log-jam across the road  Heard sporadic gunfire, they were firing at the convoy  One infantryman who said he’d known where the Japanese were firing from, ran off  Doucette followed him  Ran into what looked like a 15 year old kid with his hands up; the infantry man shot and killed him  Doucette was aghast and asked him why he did that  Then three Filipinos came out, dragged the corpse out of the stream and began kicking his head (the Japanese were known for having gold crowned teeth); Ducett thought it was brutal � The child the infantryman had killed had been rigged with a bomb Okinawa, Japan (00:38:44) Went to Okinawa, Japan Could see and hear, from a distance, the planes (some were Kamikaze) and gunfire Had no official assignment, just kept moving Heard Roosevelt died, at this time; didn’t know who Truman was Was there when they dropped the Atomic Bomb, didn’t realize what it actually was (00:40:14) Home (00:40:40) When he heard that the Japanese had surrendered, he thought, “The war is won.”  This was in August  Rumors of “Golden Gate in 48”  Had absolutely nothing to do  Watched outdoor movies  Knew he was leaving when his name was on the list  Went onto a freighter; arrived on a DUKW (pronounced “duck,” amphibious trucks)  Left before Christmas; the trip would usually only take five days, but it took 21 for Doucette’s freighter o The ship had lost a screw in its propeller Made it to the Columbia River, finally home (00:43:30)  January 3rd: landed in Vancouver Barracks, Washington,; February 6 (1946): arrived home  Kind of a negative experience, no one there to welcome them, 2 AM � Was tested for everything (disease), Doucette felt livid that he had to be tested  Later, never picked up his medals; but got them in 1948 because of his daughter o Ducett lists the medals he received  Before coming home, he had never called; a telegram had been sent saying, “Arrived safely. Please do not contact me.” Arrived home at 1 AM, his mother answered the door and said, “I knew you would come home, so I left the Christmas tree up.” It was February 6 (00:47:40) Went back to his previous work, got into the Engineering Department, then sales Eventually became the President of the company at age 50, followed his father’s advice Feels that his time in the military was a waste of his time (00:49:35)  Feels that, if he were to do it again, he would have gone to Officer’s Candidate School instead of Aviation School Younger people now-a-days do not realize that the United States’ Army had been smaller than Switzerland’s, during the onset of the war. The Air Force was smaller than Romania’s. Doucette feels that the United States’ large productive capacity was possible because of the people back home � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Doucette, William (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Doucette, William Description An account of the resource William Doucette first began his military career in the Civilian Military Training Corps at the age of 15. Leaving after two year to find work in Chicago, Doucette eventually came back to join the Aviation Cadet Program. After making it to his Basic Flight Training, Doucette was washed out after a "check flight"during which the instructor had passed out. This eventually led Doucette to go work at an Instrument Training School, until he volunteered for overseas duty. He served as a driver and mechanic in New Guinea and the Philippines. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Forces Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-06-18 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DoucetteW Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3b64fab5c2c59382ccace774efd51c68.mp4 a36394a28c0f0c151513341bdea715b0 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/49759ed0e37a3fce2144a8de4c0833b5.pdf 1beadcf4de4666249c86759d55cde22c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Vietnam War Edward Dorstewitz Interview Length: (00:49:47:00) Interview conducted with Dorstewitz’s wife, Peggy Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:59:00)  Dorstewitz grew up in Coloma, Michigan and as far his wife knows, none of his family members ever served in the military (00:00:59:00)  After graduating from Coloma High School, Dorstewitz attending Ferris State University, opting to go to classes year-round, so he would finish early (00:01:42:00) o Dorstewitz’s deferment lasted until late spring/early summer but because Dorstewitz finished in January, he received his draft notice in January; however, the Army gave Dorstewitz the option to wait, so although he was drafted in January, Dorstewitz did not actually report until April (00:01:54:00) o In the manner that Dorstewitz entered the military, it appeared he had enlisted instead of having been drafted; therefore, Dorstewitz appeared to be a volunteer as opposed to a draftee (00:02:33:00)  Dorstewitz served from April 1969 until November 1970, having received an early-out because he chose to re-up and stay in Vietnam longer, which was a difficult decision; however, in return for staying longer in Vietnam, when Dorstewitz came home, he was discharged and did not have to receive an assignment in the United States (00:02:48:00) o A typical deployment lasted twelve months but Dorstewitz’s lasted eighteen so he could come home and immediately receive his discharge (00:03:16:00)  Dorstewitz went through basic training at Fort Knox, Kentucky (00:03:28:00) o Dorstewitz spoke of tests that all the soldiers had to take and he ended up going into the infantry, although he ended up becoming a specialist within the infantry, scoring high on his marksmanship tests; eventually, Dorstewitz received the designation of being a mortarman (00:03:41:00)  Dorstewitz started his training in April and deployed to Vietnam in November but there was a period of roughly a month where Dorstewitz was “in flux” and he spent the month at Fort Lewis, Washington before actually shipping out (00:04:09:00)  When Dorstewitz deployed, he and the other soldiers deploying with him flew to Vietnam; the flight took Dorstewitz and the other soldiers from Seattle to Anchorage, Alaska, then to Hong Kong, and finally into Vietnam (00:04:33:00) o Within the larger group of soldiers who Dorstewitz deployed with, there were a couple of smaller groups of soldiers who deployed as a group but the majority trickled off and went individually (00:06:03:00) Deployment (00:06:12:00)  Once in Vietnam, Dorstewitz stayed with the same group of soldiers for the entire regular part of his tour but when he chose to re-up, Dorstewitz left the group (00:06:12:00) �    Dorstewitz arrived in Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam and from there, went to Nam Penh, which was where his unit was located (00:06:35:00) o When Dorstewitz first joined unit, the unit was performing what Dorstewitz described as “beating the brush”; the soldiers would be sent out on patrols in order to find and engage the enemy (00:06:57:00)  Eventually, Dorstewitz received an assignment as a driver (00:07:16:00)  When the soldiers went out on a patrol, they would usually go out for the day before setting up a position to spend the night; the positions would be ringed with claymore mines and wire, with the soldiers inside and the next day, the soldiers would take everything down and move on (00:07:25:00) o The first assignment Dorstewitz’s unit had was patrolling along Highway 1 both to make sure the highway stayed clear of the enemy and to maintain a military presence along the highway (00:07:45:00) o Overall, Dorstewitz’s unit did not have a lot of contact with the enemy, although every now and then, there were some engagements (00:08:11:00) o The soldiers searched for mines and Dorstewitz sent home photographs and letters discussing how the soldiers took turns go out in front of the unit (00:08:16:00)  Dorstewitz’s unit had some Vietnamese defectors from the Viet Cong who worked with the soldiers and knew what to look for; the defectors would often walk ahead of the unit to look for the mines (00:08:25:00) o Dorstewitz’s unit did not engage a lot of the enemy; when the unit was on the highway, the enemy tended to stay away (00:08:55:00) Apart from the Vietnamese defectors, later on, when Dorstewitz’s unit was camped outside of Cambodia and would perform missions within Cambodia at night, the soldiers worked with local Montagnard tribesmen (00:09:43:00) In terms of the regular Vietnamese population, Dorstewitz believed that they were an incredibly patient people, a fact which amazed him (00:10:33:00) o The Vietnamese people who Dorstewitz ended up encountering were nice, friendly, and kind towards him (00:10:55:00) o As well, Dorstewitz really admired the Montagnards, who Dorstewitz felt were incredible (00:11:04:00) o Soldiers in Dorstewitz’s unit tended to not go into villages alone because the unit was either in the bush or in camp; the soldiers did find enemy camps but every time, the camps were empty (00:11:23:00)  There was always evidence of the enemy within the empty camps and some times, the soldiers arrived just after the enemy had left; there would be paperwork and other materials lying around to show that the enemy had just left the camp (00:11:45:00) From time to time, Dorstewitz’s unit would engage the enemy, especially if the unit was out on a patrol and had set up in a position; the enemy tended to not bother the unit when the unit was on the move but when the unit set up in a position, then the enemy would engage them (00:12:05:00) o When the enemy did engage, the soldiers would fire their weapons as well as try to fire mortars and once the fighting was over, the soldiers would advance out in order to overtake and capture any wounded enemy soldiers (00:12:20:00) �   o At one point, while Dorstewitz’s unit was patrol along the highway, another unit became involved in an engagement with the enemy, there were bodies left over and Dorstewitz’s unit had to take care of the bodies (00:12:38:00) The unit would spend weeks at a time in the field, although sometimes, it was longer, maybe a month or more, to the point that the soldiers’ clothes would begin rotting off their bodies (00:13:09:00) o Eventually, the soldiers would be brought back into a base camp, which tended to have modern amenities, including movie theaters; Dorstewitz thought it was neat that one of the camps even had a “steakhouse” (00:13:22:00) o On two separate occasions, when the unit came back into a base camp, Dorstewitz and several other soldiers stayed in a structure they had built out of sandbags and ammo boxes that had a rudimentary roof over it; typically, between seven and nine soldiers stayed within the bunker (00:14:02:00)  Those soldiers were the group who Dorstewitz spent most of his time with and at one point, he sent home a picture of the group to his mother; in the picture, it was Christmas Eve and even though the soldiers were raggedy looking, they had still set up a small Christmas tree (00:14:25:00)  In the picture, a couple of soldiers looked gaunt and raggedy while a couple of other soldiers looked plump and fresh; according to Dorstewitz, the later couple of soldiers were the replacements who had just arrived in the unit and it still had not sunk in yet as to where they were and what they were doing (00:15:04:00)  Whenever it was a replacement’s turn to stand watch, the older soldiers did not allow the replacement to stand watch alone because the replacement did not quite get what exactly they needed to do (00:15:30:00) Dorstewitz had his twenty-first birthday while he was in Vietnam and most of the other soldiers in his group were of similar ages, although there were a couple who were older, around twenty-four (00:16:01:00) On one occasion, the soldiers felt that they were in a relatively stable area, so as they set up their claymores and wire for the perimeter, Dorstewitz decided to take his boots off because he had not had them off in weeks (00:16:40:00) o Dorstewitz set up a cot and placed the boots underneath the cot; at some point, an explosion blew Dorstewitz out of the cot, inflicting him a fairly large number of shrapnel wounds (00:17:01:00)  Even for several years after Dorstewitz met his wife, pieces of shrapnel would work their way to the surface, so Dorstewitz had to take a pair of tweezers and pull the metal out (00:17:24:00) o According to Dorstewitz, as soon as an enemy attack began, the mortarmen would begin firing mortars, although it seemed like an eternity between the time the mortars were fired until they impacted (00:17:55:00)  However, as soon as the first rounds landed, the enemy would disperse because there was no cover from the impacting rounds (00:18:10:00)  The mortarmen’s goal was to lay down rounds as quick as they could all around the perimeter; if there was firing in between, the mortarmen would then adjust their fire accordingly (00:18:19:00) �    During another encounter, the unit had set up in an a not-terrible good area but a general was coming out to inspect the soldiers (00:18:55:00) o The general came out by helicopter but the activity alerted the enemy that there were soldiers in the area, so the enemy began firing at the soldiers (00:19:04:00) o Everyone else frozen but Dorstewitz began running because the soldiers needed to fire something; Dorstewitz was so low to the ground that he ended up hitting the ankle of a soldier who was going with other way with his shoulder (00:19:22:00) o Once at his mortar, Dorstewitz needed to get onto his knees to fire and although the mortar was in an exposed area, Dorstewitz did the job anyway (00:19:55:00)  Dorstewitz always felt he had a weird kind of lucky because this and several other times, he could have been wounded (00:20:12:00) o Dorstewitz keep firing the mortar and once the rounds began to impact, he was able to adjust his fire (00:20:22:00) Whenever he communicated in letters home, Dorstewitz would just tell everyone that he was fine, nothing was wrong, and to not worry about him (00:20:57:00) o Dorstewitz’s wife has read some of the letters and it is difficult to comprehend what Dorstewitz’s mother had been going through; Dorstewitz was the youngest and she had to wait for letters that did not always come on time (00:21:20:00) o Overall, most of the time, Dorstewitz was just trying to not make anyone worry about him (00:21:42:00) Dorstewitz also called home a couple of times using the MARS system; the soldiers did not get to choose when they could call but put their names on a list (00:21:59:00) o Dorstewitz was also supposed to be able to call home when he went on R&R but, although the Army kept telling him he would be able to go, Dorstewitz never went on an R&R (00:22:29:00)  Dorstewitz’s parents wanted Dorstewitz to try to get R&R to Hawaii and their goal was to fly to Hawaii and see him; however, Dorstewitz reasoned that would be difficult, so he instead put in a request for R&R in Hong Kong, which someone had told his was cool (00:22:42:00)  However, the Army kept putting him off, so Dorstewitz finally put in a request for Australia and received the R&R about a month before he was scheduled to go home (00:23:02:00) o In letters home, Dorstewitz wrote about all the letters and packages he received from home, both from his family and friends of his mother (00:23:43:00)  In her Christmas package, Dorstewitz’s mother sent a wreath, a small Christmas tree, and several other items (00:24:05:00)  Dorstewitz would also mention how every now and then, a soldier would get down, but most because the soldier was homesick (00:24:27:00) When Dorstewitz received his discharge in November, he was able to make it home in time for Thanksgiving (00:24:44:00) o During the last few months, Dorstewitz’s letters home showed he was beginning to get nervous and Dorstewitz would say that it was really scary to be a shorttimer because that was when a lot of soldiers let their guard down (00:25:01:00)  However, Dorstewitz eventually began making plans for all the things he was going to do once he finally got home, including traveling to Europe with some of the other soldiers in the platoon (00:25:25:00) �   o When Dorstewitz arrived back in the United States, he visited a friend from the platoon who lived in San Francisco, which upset Dorstewitz’s parents, who wanted him to come straight home (00:25:41:00) Around the time he received his shrapnel wounds, Dorstewitz also received significant hearing loss and while recovering from the shrapnel wounds, Dorstewitz did some hearing tests and the doctor said his hear loss was profound and they recommended he not be in an area with noise (00:26:04:00) o However, it was a difficult recommendation for Dorstewitz because he was a mortarman; instead, Dorstewitz was moved to a different platoon (00:26:28:00) o Not only was Dorstewitz disappointed about losing his chance to see his friends but he also lost an upcoming promotion to be a sergeant, which he would only have received if he continued working as a mortarman (00:26:33:00) o The mortarmen did not use any hearing protection and most times, the soldiers did not even wear their helmets, which tended to be in the way (00:27:08:00) According to Dorstewitz, the soldiers had pretty free access to marijuana and beer; in a letter home, Dorstewitz wrote that the three things the soldiers had to drink were: soda, water, and beer, although if a soldier appeared either drunk, hung over, or high, then there were consequences (00:27:30:00) When he left Vietnam, Dorstewitz returned via Fort Lewis (00:28:21:00) o When he returned, Dorstewitz did not have much trouble with protestors at the airport when he arrived (00:28:34:00) Post-Military Live / Reflections (00:28:45:00)  Dorstewitz was from a small town and just by talking with him, one could not have guessed that he had served in the military; for a lot of the time that Dorstewitz and his wife were married, his wife got the impression that Dorstewitz felt he was lucky but that he owed a lot because he had made it through but a lot of guys did not (00:28:45:00) o Nevertheless, the experience still affected Dorstewitz and caused him to have several variables, such as not having guns in the house and not going camping; when Dorstewitz’s wife asked why he did not want to go camping, Dorstewitz said that the last time he had camped, people were shooting at him (00:29:30:00) o Another quirk Dorstewitz picked up was that he could not sleep in a room where his head was near a window; Dorstewitz and his wife did not talk about it but it reached the point where whenever they would go to a place, she would look to make sure everything was set (00:30:47:00)  Even before he met his wife, Dorstewitz knew he was sick, although he did not know what exactly from (00:31:32:00)  Growing up, Dorstewitz’s father had owned a business and all Dorstewitz wanted to do was work with his father; therefore, when Dorstewitz went to college, he took courses that would best serve him at the business, which made drafting supplies (00:31:44:00) o However, when Dorstewitz left school, he was drafted, so the plan for working with his father got put to the wayside (00:32:10:00) o Initially, Dorstewitz’s brother was not interested in working at the business but while Dorstewitz was in the military, his brother married and began working in the business; thus, when Dorstewitz came home, there was no place in the business for him (00:32:15:00) �        Although their father tried to arrange it so both brothers could work in the shop, it did not work out and because the older brother had already been working there, he stayed in the job (00:32:31:00) When Dorstewitz’s wife met him, he was working as a bouncer at a bar (00:32:47:00) o Soon after the two met, Dorstewitz began looking for another job, although his criteria confused his wife, although he eventually explained that he was looking for the job with the best medical insurance (00:33:05:00) o Not long after, Dorstewitz began presenting symptoms of Hodgkin’s disease, which was always there; however, the disease in a way made the couple’s lives better because they never took one day for granted (00:33:31:00) When Dorstewitz was older, his brother started his own business and Dorstewitz’s father asked him to come back to the business and Dorstewitz and his wife eventually ended up purchasing the business (00:34:26:00) While Dorstewitz’s unit had been patrolling along Highway 1, most of the area had been deforested from “Agent Orange”, although the soldiers did not it (00:34:49:00) o When Dorstewitz got sick, his family did not even know about “Agent Orange” then either, although there was always a suspicion because even before his tour ended, Dorstewitz was sick, having lost fifty pounds of weight (00:35:00:00) When his symptoms started, Dorstewitz initially went to a local doctor before going to the University of Michigan to undergo tests to determine the stage of the disease and what treatment to use, which in Dorstewitz’s case was radiation (00:36:22:00) o Dorstewitz finished radiation in August and in November, went to the V.A.; when he initially came home, Dorstewitz went to the V.A., who said he had nothing wrong with him, but this time, he had a definitive diagnosis (00:36:52:00) o However, the V.A. said that although Dorstewitz had a Hodgkin’s diagnosis, there was no correlation to Dorstewitz’s time in the service (00:37:42:00) o Nevertheless, in 1979, the V.A. came out and reported that Hodgkin’s disease could be caused by “Agent Orange” (00:38:01:00) o Dorstewitz’s symptoms eventually reappeared and in 2003, while he was in the hospital, Dorstewitz tried to have his case re-opened at the V.A. but they denied him again (00:38:43:00) After Dorstewitz passed away, his wife decided to apply again and after two years of nearly constant work, Dorstewitz’s wife asked for a hearing, went to Detroit, and the V.A. finally correlated Dorstewitz’s Hodgkin’s disease to “Agent Orange” (00:39:39:00) o While Dorstewitz’s wife was waiting at an American Legion hall, a man from the V.A. came over and said that he was going to walk Dorstewitz’s case through because he should have never been denied (00:41:55:00) As long as Dorstewitz’s wife knew him, Dorstewitz did not communicate with anyone who he had served with, although she did come across a not book with address of some of the soldiers (00:45:32:00) o Nevertheless, when he initially returned home, Dorstewitz did receive some letters from former comrades and he did end up hitch-hiking across Europe with the soldier who lived in San Francisco (00:45:46:00)  When the duo reached Amsterdam, the other soldier met a lady, so Dorstewitz continued the tour by himself (00:46:01:00) When Dorstewitz passed away, he received a full military burial (00:46:32:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dorstewitz, Peggy (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dorstewitz, Edward Dorstewitz, Peggy Description An account of the resource Interview with Peggy Dorstewitz about her husband Edward Dorstewitz. Edward grew up in Coloma, Michigan and after graduating from high school, attending Ferris State University, going year-round so he could finish his studies early. After completing his degree, Dorstewitz received his draft notification and went to Fort Knox, Kentucky for his training. Once he completed his training, Dorstewitz deployed to Vietnam and joined a unit patrolling along Highway 1, where he stayed for the remainder of his tour. Much later, after Dorstewitz had returned home, he became sick and it was eventually determined that his sickness resulted from contact with the chemical "Agent Orange". Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Massa, Richard (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-05-02 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DorstewitzE Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6c0aae5e72ced6d0362e0ffcfcc74d95.mp4 5d378ae9197d5c7bfc354528d89c0cbb https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/024ede69d6834100e00436a68a8d6b8b.pdf 2c827b36bd6e93c0a9b031a65acefe0e PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW RICHARD DORSEY Born: 1946 in Gary, Indiana Resides: Belmont, Michigan Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, March 13, 2012 Interviewer: To begin with Mr. Dorsey, can you tell us where and when you were born? I was born in 1946 in Gary, Indiana. Interviewer: What did your family do for a living in those days? My father and mother were both teachers in, especially in the music area. Interviewer: Did you grow up in Gary or did you move somewhere else? Yes I did, I grew up in Gary and after I was drafted from that location. Interviewer: Did you go to private schools, or public ones? Public schools Interviewer: What was—what kind of a place was Gary, Indiana in the late fifties and early sixties? It was a thriving small metropolis, and of course, the center of its industry was the steel industry. Things were booming then, at that time, and Gary was a very cultural, active community and certainly vibrant with employment, and people made money, especially those that weren’t skilled. 1:21 Interviewer: it was also a place; at least by the late sixties it had seen its share of racial problems and other issues. Was there much of that going on before you left, or were you aware of much of that? 1 �There was a racial divide, but I did not get exposed to that to any extent. Interviewer: The high school that you went to, was that mostly while kids? Yes it was Interviewer: When did you receive your draft notice? Actually, after I left high school I went and played around with college a little bit, but it just wasn’t the right time for me, and I actually tried to join the Air Force, and I had a bad knee so I couldn’t. 2:08 Six months later, when I was about twenty years old, the draft sought me out and said my knee was fine. I was drafted at that time, in 1968. Interviewer: Had you been working then and doing other things? Yes, at the time, as a matter of fact, I was a lifeguard for the YMCA, as I recall. Interviewer: What did you know about the Vietnam War before you were drafted? I was somewhat naïve about the Vietnam Was, I knew it was going on, the spin on it from the circles I ran in, was that it was good, that it was taking care of communist aggression, so it was all the right twist at that time, again in the circles that I ran in. 3:01 Interviewer: For the most part, at least in 1966 and 1967, a lot of the news coverage was still fairly positive, and we were winning. Yes, exactly, and the problem was, at the time that I was drafted, the war was really escalating, but of course, the spin on it was that we were doing great things and having wins of battles and such as that. Interviewer: Did you have relatives who had been in the service, or did you not know much about that kind of thing? My father was in the Navy, my brother was in the Air Force, and another brother was in the Army. 2 �Interviewer: So, on some level going into the service was a fairly normal thing to do? The normal thing to do given the circles I ran in. It was the normal thing to do once the country called you, you responded and so forth. As far as the political climate, especially around Vietnam, I was oblivious to anything. Interviewer: Where did they send you then for basic training? Fort Bliss, Texas, and I initially went down to Kentucky, but they didn’t have enough room. 4:06 As I said, the war was escalating, they were trying to draft a lot more people, so they had to send me to Fort Bliss, Texas for my basic training. Interviewer: Where in Texas is Fort Bliss? Close to the Mexican border, about in the central part of the state. Interviewer: Near El Paso? Yes, exactly Interviewer: That’s kind of off on one end there. That’s my naivety; I thought it was in the central part of the state. Interviewer: How would you describe the facility when you got there? Very nice, very clean, and it was a good experience other than the bad connotations of basic training, it was a very clean facility. Interviewer: Did the facility have new buildings and things like that? Relatively new, I would say relatively new. Interviewer: So, you weren’t just stuck in a WWII vintage barracks or something like that? Exactly 5:05 3 �Interviewer: Now, What kind of a reception did you get when you arrived down at Fort Bliss? Oh, they were so glad to see me. It was the typical scenario where the drill sergeant, as soon as you get off the bus he starts barking at you and the whole shot. It’s all designed to break your previous mental position and be receptive to what they had in store for you. I can look back and see that now. Interviewer: How well, or quickly, did you adjust to that? Well, it was a blur, to be honest with you, at the very start. I did not expect to be drafted in the first place because I had just gotten rejected by the Air Force, but it was a bit of a blur and of course, literally, you were run through lines to get shots and other things, almost like a bunch of cattle, and very impersonal. 6:07 Interviewer: But, as far as you can tell you just went along with it? Just went along and adjusted to it, and I finally got my arms around it a little bit. Interviewer: Aside from just learning the discipline and following orders, what else did basic consist of when you were in it? What else did basic consist of? Interviewer: Yeah Discipline, again breaking—I personally didn’t have a lot of baggage to bring in, but some did, and the program that they had was very adept at getting everybody in the same mold at the most part. Where they were receptive to the training, horrible schedules, we would get to bed late at night, early in the morning, the drill sergeants were ridiculous in what they expected, and what they inspected. 7:07 The training was very demanding, and I just remember being constantly tired all the time. We would have to go places in 4 �cattle trucks, literally standing up, rather than nice buses and all that. They had a lot to do in a little bit of time. They had to get us ready for Vietnam is what it was, and so, they put you through the mill. Interviewer: Then did you get weapons training along with that? Yes, some basic weapons training there, but it became more advanced in my advanced infantry training from there at my next assignment. Interviewer: Now, from the beginning were you using M16s and modern weapons, or were you using older ones? Primarily the M14s at that stage Interviewer: Did they have you do a lot of physical training, a lot of marching and hiking? 8:05 Marching, hiking, just a lot of physical conditioning, and all for a purpose, and that was very demanding as well. I remember that, now that you bring it up. Interviewer: Were you in reasonably good shape when you started, or did you have to get in shape? Actually I was, you know, I was a lifeguard at the YMCA, and that put me in incredible shape because I had time between classes where I didn’t have to do a lot, so I swam a lot. That exercise really prepared me much more than I realized, for that time, it really did. Interviewer: Now, What kind of people were you training along side? How old were they, and where were they from? Close to my age, maybe a year younger, maybe a year older, and from the Gary area, from the Chicago area, the northwest Indiana area, and that sort of thing, and quite a bit from Chicago. 9:01 5 �Interviewer: So, it was a specific group taken out of particular region and brought down, at least to train together? Correct, that is correct Interviewer: How long did the basic training last? Eight weeks Interviewer: Then you moved on to advanced training after that, and did you stay at Fort Bliss or did you go somewhere else? Someplace else, and I was assigned to the infantry, and I guess that was, they called it, my MOS if I recall right. So, I went to Fort Polk, Louisiana for advanced infantry training. Interviewer: Was Fort Polk any different from Fort Bliss? It was an older facility, a much older barracks, and it was, I’m sure, designed to replicate what we would be facing in Vietnam. So, there were a lot of swampy conditions, humid conditions, and the topography was very similar to what we encountered ultimately in Vietnam. Interviewer: Describe a little bit the actual training program. 10:01 Well, of course, it continued to be intensive, but of course as I recall, and I’m sure there’s a lot that I have forgotten about, but certainly the advanced weapons mechanics retained the M14, and all that surrounds that, but the machine gun, I got intensive training on that, and also, the M16, and the 45 caliber pistol, so we got much more intensive training on those things. On tactics, on evading the enemy if we were separated from our group in Vietnam and how you did that. Survival training, and that sort of thing, as I recall. Very 6 �interesting scenarios, taking a chicken and taking it from catching it all the way to cooking it and eating it, which wasn’t real appetizing. 11:08 Interviewer: Now, were your instructors, at that point, people who had been to Vietnam? Yes, that’s right Interviewer: How much did they tell you, or what kinds of things did they tell you to expect? They didn’t say a whole lot, other than the fact that you knew that you were tentatively facing a serious situation, and they meant business is what it amounted to. Interviewer: AIT, was that another eight weeks, or was it longer than that? It was another eight weeks, that is correct. Interviewer: What happened when you finished that? Then I got a brief respite, and then I was shipped over to Vietnam, which might have been in June, and I don’t know if the time is right, but if my math is right that would have put me just past the eight weeks, a little time to say goodbye to the family, and then shipping out. 12:10 Interviewer: About June of 1968, or pretty close to that Right Interviewer: How did they get you physically to Vietnam? I had to report to Chicago, where they flew me to Washington, the state of Washington, and there I received my orders, how I was to be flown out, and what group I was to be with. I cannot recall, but it was certainly a safe area—we flew to Japan for refueling, and 7 �then on to Vietnam, and it certainly was a safe area that I came into, and I can’t recall the name of the city. Interviewer: You don’t know whether you went to—some people went to the Saigon area, some flew to Da Nang; some flew to Cam Ranh Bay. Cam Ranh Bay sounds very familiar to me. 13:06 Interviewer: That, actually, might have been the safest option. Right Interviewer: Did they fly you in a commercial jet or a military one? Commercial, yes Interviewer: Was it all soldiers on that plane or were there civilians? Yes, as a matter of fact, it was all soldiers, and very few amenities. Interviewer: What was your first impression of Vietnam when you got off the plane? First impression of Vietnam—of course, landing in a safe area and the area we landed in was not a jungle area, it was much more open, and at that point again, it was like a blur because as soon as you landed you were shuffled through a number of stations, and then finally carted out by helicopter to where you were to be assigned, so it was a quick blur as well as I can remember. 14:05 Interviewer: Do you remember it being hot? Very hot Interviewer: Was there any kind of distinctive smell in the place where you got off? Interesting—not there, not that I recall. There were other smells later on, in the air, that I’ll never forget, but not there. 8 �Interviewer: Kind of away fro the agricultural zones and some of the others that got interesting. So basically, they’re whisking you off in other directions, basically follow us through that process, you get off the plane, they take you off the runway, and do you stay in that area for a while to get assigned? Just for a couple of days--until they could process your specific orders, and then be assigned to a specific unit. If I recall right, it was relatively quick—a relatively short time in Cam Ranh Bay before I was put on a larger helicopter and up to the DMZ, is where I was assigned initially. 15:14 Interviewer: What unit were you assigned to? The 1st Air Cavalry, the 2nd of the 7th, it’s called the Garryowen division, and unfortunately after George Custer who lost everything in his battle, but that’s what it was. Interviewer: So, 7th Cavalry, 1st Regiment, 7th Calvary Division Right Interviewer: The 1st Cavalry had— It was 2nd Cav—no, 1st, no Interviewer: 2nd Brigade—there are a lot of different numbers they juggled around because they took battalions from different regiments and brigade them together within the division. I think you probably know it better than I do. [Maybe, but I screwed up in the interview-2nd Battalion, 7th Regiment, 1st Cavalry Division] Interviewer: But initially you’re with the 7th Cavalry, and that sticks with you at that point. Discharge papers list you, at some point, with the 8th Cavalry. 9 �It wasn’t the 8th Cavalry, it must have been the 8th Brigade or even some other distinctive group, but it was always 2nd of the 7th, yes. 16:16 Interviewer: You were with them—what condition was the unit in, as far as you tell, when you joined it? Had they taken a lot of casualties or were they pretty close to full strength? When I joined it seemed relatively docile in the sense that they weren’t anxious about enemy fire upon them, or being attacked, or whatever. It was just the unknown at the time—what was I walking into? And sensing that it wasn’t a big deal, what I walked into. Interviewer: You were joining the unit basically as an individual, so the unit was already there and you were going to join them in the field. Were there a lot of them going at the same time? There were two of us, as I recall, going to join that unit, on that day that were assigned to that particular group. 17:13 Interviewer: So, you’re assigned to a particular platoon and squad, so you get introduced to a certain group of men at that point? It turned out, as I understand, we were replacing people that were being sent back home, so the two of actually, almost got into the same squad, of the bigger unit. That was very interesting. Interviewer: What impression did you have of the men in the unit? You said they didn’t seem to be too concerned about what was going on. 10 �Well, for the most part, somewhat impersonal, like, “Ok, here’s some new green troops coming in, and I haven’t got time for you right now”, and that sort of thing. Not that they were bad, they just didn’t go out of their way to welcome you. 18:01 Interviewer: Physically what were the conditions like? How would you describe the area? The area was quite open; not mountains, but hills, small hills, but a lot of flat land, and somewhat dry, and, of course, warm. Interviewer: What were your living conditions? Were you sleeping out in the open? Living conditions—that was my biggest shock, initially, living conditions, because when you first got supplied to get to your assignment, you were given some basic things, one of which was an air mattress, and an air mattress is like gold, and it just wasn’t seen by many people. I also had a poncho that served as half of a tent that I built with another person, and we slept in that underneath those ponchos, that served as a tent, wherever we were. 19:20 We were not in an area that had buildings, we were out in the field. Interviewer: Were you dug in? Did you have foxholes or bunkers or things like that? Where we were, we had foxholes, not all the time, and sometimes we were so transient we didn’t have time to dig them, and the necessity for them was very minimal because by and large, unless we stayed in an area for several days, then we would dig foxholes, but by and large we weren’t attacked by anybody up there. They had already seen a lot of trouble and the area had been secured, but you ran into booby traps and a few snipers, probably kids, and that was it. 20:07 Interviewer: What were the daily activities up there while you were by the DMZ? 11 �The daily activities, as strange as it sounds, something they didn’t teach you in training in basic or advanced infantry training, is that you go to the bathroom out in the field. that sounds rather silly, but the first time I thought, “What do I do?” So I went outside the perimeter and did my little thing, and I saw a helicopter going over my head and thought, “I wish they would go away”. Then very quickly you adjusted and became part of the landscape and all of your functions then meshed with the environment that you were in, at least for me. Interviewer: Were you not supposed to go outside the perimeter? Well, you were supposed to do it at restricted times, and in certain areas, because you would typically have an outpost beyond the perimeter, so you could stay between the outpost and the perimeter as long as long as there wasn’t any imminent danger. 21:18 Interviewer: But they hadn’t created any other kind of facilities for you? No, you took your shovel and you dug a trench and you straddled it, and that was it. I hope that was not too graphic. Interviewer: In some of the places there was sort of, in the fortified camps and things like that, there were other sorts of systems, latrines or things like that. They did not have outhouses and it was very rustic. Interviewer: Did you do a lot of patrolling or did you just stay in one place? We did patrolling, as squads on a very limited basis, but we did patrolling, and ran into very little resistance in that area. Interviewer: What impression did you have of the leadership of the unit, from the sergeants or lieutenants and things like that? 22:12 12 �The leadership—you were very detached from the lieutenants, and the captain, at least at my level you were, and by and large people were somewhat impersonal. Although, they grew more personal and warm to you the longer you stuck around and became one of the group that was watching each other’s back, so to speak. Interviewer: About how long did that process take, do you think? Probably about a month, for me anyhow Interviewer: So, you have that adjustment process and you’re still up in the DMZ area. About how long did you stay in that sector? About four months Interviewer: Did the circumstances stay pretty much the same the whole time? Absolutely, other than—probably the biggest challenge was the monsoons coming in and dealing with that. 23:12 That was harder—although, there were incidents with booby traps where men were killed with them, but they were few and far between. Interviewer: Were the booby traps mainly in the form of mines? Yes, mines in the ground or the type that would jump up and explode up in the air, just above head height and that sort of thing. Interviewer: Now eventually you get news that you’re moving out and going somewhere else? Yes Interviewer: Where do you go next? They put us in helicopters and took us down near Saigon; I think it was Da Nang [Da Nang is still in the north, but they may have flown through there on the way down] as a matter of fact. Then we regrouped there and very quickly, we weren’t there very long, 13 �quickly flew us in mass, with a number of Huey helicopters, out to what was called virgin territory. Virgin in where no GI’s had ever been, out west of Saigon, on the Cambodian boarder. 24:12 Interviewer: Was there a landing zone cleared for you or was it open country? It wasn’t real open, the landing zone had not been cleared, and we established the landing zone and created it from day one. Interviewer: Was this sort of a new experience for you, to fly into enemy territory like that, or had you been going places in helicopters before that? To a small degree, you had a little bit of that experience up north, but when you flew into the unit that was out in the field, it was pretty well secured. When we flew in down south it was like—your eyes opened up and thinking, “What am I walking into?” Fortunately, it was not what they call a hot LZ situation where you fly into all sort of enemy resistance. 25:06 It was, for whatever reason, we received no resistance. Interviewer: In this case they didn’t quite know you were coming, or if they did they weren’t opposing you. Apparently, right Interviewer: Basically you get there, now, was this a whole battalion going together, or company or squad? That was primarily a company that went into that particular area. Interviewer: Once you landed what did you do? Then it was a matter of securing the area, making sure before anything was done we got some outposts out to the outside of the perimeter we were trying to establish, by virtue of digging foxholes and creating an area we would operate patrols out of in order to see if 14 �the area was clear, or if we were going to face resistance. 26:07 I also ultimately found out we were close to the Ho Chi Minh Trail, and there was a design to start to see or intercept some of the traffic coming down through that trail. When we landed we immediately got some people out—once we realized we weren’t getting resistance, we had a few people stationed in strategic areas and then proceeded to dig the foxholes and have the little hootches made out of ponchos and all that, in order to start to create a stable environment out of which to operate. Interviewer: Now, did you have things like concertina wire or mines or things like that as well? We didn’t have concertina wire, but we did, after we established a little more stability within the camp, we almost at the same time were putting out claymore mines and things like that as preventive measures. 27:06 Interviewer: How long did it take for you to start to attract the enemy's attention? Very quickly, as a matter of fact it turned out, and it was our squad that I was assigned to, that had the first confrontation. Interviewer: What happened at that point? When they finally started to send out patrols, after things were established, our group was the first one assigned to a patrol headed by a very green Lieutenant. Again, I didn’t find out until later—he took us out and he got lost, and we went further than we were supposed to go. Consequently, when he finally realized where we were, and where we had to go to get back to the landing zone, as we started to walk back we walked right into a major regiment of North Vietnamese, not just Vietcong, that was pretty well 15 �entrenched. 28:17 I’m sure they were surprised because I don’t think they expected us to be quite out where we were. Interviewer: So, basically once you bump into them, so do you try to get away from them or what? We were absolutely pinned down flat with fire, and I would say as close, frankly, to this blue wall. Very thick jungle was this topography, and I remember not being able to see—what was it 20-25 feet? I remember not being able to see anything, but the fire was so intense and so low, you couldn’t even be in a sitting position, we had to be prone on the ground. 29:08 With that being our first real conflict, nobody knew what to do, frankly of our unit. Unfortunately the Lieutenant didn’t either, he was more scared than we were, and he was in the back of the whole patrol, so we stuck initially. Then all of a sudden—it’s very interesting that even with the lack of direction by this Lieutenant, all of a sudden everybody started to regroup within themselves and then we started to act as a unit, and putting into force all the training we had. It was more mechanical than anything, so we started strategically plant machine gunners and spread out as much as possible even though most of it was crawling, to protect ourselves, I do remember that. 30:02 Interviewer: How did that situation resolve its self then? I remember that when we first ran into them our point man—it’s interesting, our point man was a guy that I came into the country with. He got the point job and I got the grenadier job and those are the two most hated jobs. The grenadier job because of all the weight of all the bigger ammunition, and the point man, naturally, because you put yourself in danger. He was shot immediately in the chest and I remember being on the 16 �left flank, totally pinned down and not knowing what was going on. At one point I remember a projectile coming up over the canopy and I looked at it rather strangely and I thought, “What was that?” All of a sudden it hit me-- it was an enemy grenade, and it actually rolled towards me. Well, the enemy had cut down trees to build the bunkers, and right next to me was a stump maybe three feet high. 31:07 Instinctively, I rolled over behind the stump, it rolled to the other side and blew up, and of course nothing happened to me other than I knew I was scared to death. At that time we finally realized that the commander, who was a Captain, was coming out from the landing zone to help us. The problem was, the enemy was between us and him, he didn’t know it, he got shot and killed immediately, his radio operator got shot and killed immediately, and several others were killed or wounded in that group. So, they couldn’t help us any more—this was a, as I found out later of course, it was a crack North Vietnamese group. So, it turned out that the man that was to replace our killed company commander happened to be flying in on a helicopter to go to another unit. 32:14 He heard on the radio what was going on and proceeded, with his helicopter sitting quite a bit above us, took and led us out and away from the enemy, because we didn’t know where the enemy was and who was what because the Lieutenant had no idea where we were. Interviewer: But, he’s got a radio operator with him who can talk to the helicopter? That is correct, and the radio operator talked with this Captain who was coming in for another unit, was pulled back out and then we took a really roundabout way, even in the dark at the last, to get back to the landing zone, and we were guided by this helicopter because he could see where there was a probable safe way to go. 33:05 The enemy, for whatever reason, did not want to engage us any more. As soon as we started to back off 17 �and the other rescuing group started to retreat as well, they let us go. I don’t know if they were too small, I was told their group was quite large, but whether the group was too small or not ready to attack, I don’t know what the problem was on their part. We then made it back to the landing zone. Interviewer: While you were out there did you have any kind of artillery or air support? No artillery, no air Interviewer: Often, once the Americans knew where a large formation was, then they would bring all of that in. There were other skirmishes later where we had that, but the problem was there was so many GI’s close to the enemy they couldn’t fire the artillery, and air support, I don’t even remember any planes even coming overhead on that one. 34:04 The attack initially was so small that they probably didn’t focus on that as a priority to send the planes out. Interviewer: A larger enemy unit, once spotted, becomes a target and once you’re out of view they pull away, and they may know that in any case. Well, that certainly was a pretty dramatic initiation there all at once. Do you remember at all what you felt like after you had gotten back out? Somewhat shaken a bit, however it’s interesting, I think it put a resolve in the group and stepped us up a couple levels above where we were, because all of a sudden we got ready, we knew we were in something serious, and it wasn’t like the booby traps and once in a while a sniper, like up north, here all of a sudden your training came back into focus and it was ok, now let’s do it. 35:04 If I can add, it turns out that that captain that was flying in for another unit, knew the captain that was killed, and asked to be 18 �reassigned to our unit, which he was, and he then took over the reins, and his—we’ll talk about it later, but his leadership is what really helped us in our resolve, in our organization and everything. He was a crack officer. Interviewer: Do you have a sense of how old he was at the time? Probably about six years older than me, probably about twenty-six, I believe. Interviewer: At that time he would have seemed to you maybe, as kind of an older guy? An older guy and I hated him from the start. He was the father that was very dictatorial, you do this, and you do this, and I don’t want any feedback, and if you didn’t understand the whys and wherefores, it was just—you were to do what he said, and accept it for face value without any understanding. 36:13 So, you grew quickly to dislike him because of that. Interviewer: So, after that first incident, were you pretty regularly in contact with the enemy, or did you have longer periods of lulls, what were you doing basically? We had pretty regular contact with the enemy from that point forward. There were several other landing zones throughout the time that I was in Vietnam, that we created, and for various purposes all along the Cambodian boarder, but we started running pretty steady into other problems. Let me back up, and I forget which is the larger a brigade or a battalion? 37:05 Interviewer: The brigade is larger. Ok, the battalion, it was the battalion that established this landing zone, not the company. There were four companies within this landing zone, that’s coming back to me, so forgive me for forgetting that. By and large what turned out, and I’m getting far ahead, but we’ll 19 �come back to the various questions you have. We, as a company, B Company, Bravo Company, very seldom had the first attack of all the companies. We were primarily, until later on, the company that was saving the other companies. 37:59 And it became aware to me as I became some seasoned, and certainly more mature with understanding after I left Vietnam, that this commander that I really disliked, was really going solely by the book, he was very sharp, very smart, very wise, and his strategies and methodologies were so sharp, I think the enemy recognized that, and they knew better than to try to attack him. The other companies were sloppy, and they were constantly being attacked, and we would have to go out and rescue them, but it was a constant thing. The other companies—well, we had our injuries, not too many deaths in our company, but the other companies had a lot of deaths and a lot of injuries, and they constantly had to get replaced for that. 39:00 Interviewer: Was your company essentially sent on the same kinds of assignments and missions and they were? Yes we were, yes we were, the same patrols, the same occasional search and destroy missions, and all that. We had the same orders, the same marching orders, as the other companies, as they went out in different geographic areas. Again, we found out later, we were right by the enemy, and we discovered that later, but we were not attacked. Interviewer: So, in this case, it wasn’t as if you were being held back by the company commander to be the fire brigade, you just happened to be the one that was in the position to help when they needed help? That is correct 20 �Interviewer: Did you see evidence of developed enemy placements in the area? Did they have a lot of—did they have tunnels, caves, underground bunkers and things like that or were they moving around? Fortunately I was too big to be the tunnel rat, so to speak. 40:05 I think that’s what they called them, the person that would investigate the tunnels when we would discover them. And they were frequent, as well as some of the bunker complexes, and much of the time vacated. There were evidences, although there wasn’t any garbage or any other evidence, it was just stumbling across these things. They were very clean with what they did. I’m talking about either the Vietcong, or the North Vietnamese troops. Interviewer: So, there were a lot of them around. How did you go about trying to find the enemy? What—if you are doing a search and destroy mission, or something like that, how does that seem to work? Well, methodically, as I recall, we’d have short patrols, short—after establishing a landing zone, short patrols, and then gradually widening the patrols, or a dedicated sweep through an area that was a suspected enemy territory, or a trail that they used a lot. 41:12 Interviewer: When you were doing these things did they do any artillery, air preparation or bombardment, or did you go in first? Yes, frequently, we had artillery, on some occasions we had fighter that would come over with napalm bombs and drop them just over our head onto the enemy that was attacking our established positions, and probably, and this may be off—I can recall in my time there, some B52 bomb strikes very, very close to us when there was, obviously, a very large force out there to deal with Interviewer: Ok, When the B52s hit, could you feel it where you were? 42:04 21 �It was incredible, you could never see the B52s unless you really strained. Of course, you had orders to stay still because they had some navigation, which I didn’t know at the time that let them know where to drop the bombs. They were incredibly accurate, but they were so close to us that, literally, I would go a couple feet off the ground with the explosions. That was just a couple times, don’t get me wrong, it wasn’t every time they dropped them, but I remember a couple were very close situations. With huge encampments they had to do that. Interviewer: Did the landing zones themselves come under attack either with mortar fire or rockets, or sappers, or anything else? 43:03 It came under attack from those things, plus being assaulted by the enemy. Interviewer: Do you remember any specific incidents out of those attacks or certain characteristics of them that stick with you? I just remember when the first incoming of any nature came into the camp it wasn’t always followed by an attack by the enemy themselves, but you would dive into your foxhole and hope for the best, and fortunately most of the time those attacks of mortars and such, caused minimal physical damage to the men. Probably the best recollection I have of being assaulted, although they never fully breached the perimeter. 44:04 I remember the enemy troops were so high, I believe on marijuana, that you would almost cut out their legs from under them and they would start crawling towards you until you killed them. Just incredible, and that’s probably the most significant. Then the next day you go out and there are dead enemy bodies all over, and you do what clearing and collecting of things for intelligence and all that you need to, but a very interesting situation. 22 �Interviewer: What opinion did you have of these people who were doing this to you? We had gained such an intense dislike for these people—they were not only not good, but they were sneaky, they were doing things for the wrong reasons, we were the pure enemy and out to do you in, and of course, that was the ultimate, is preservation of yourself, beside the bigger political scene that was involved. 45:18 Interviewer: Did you have a certain sort of respect for somebody willing to do that much or go that far to get rid of you, or did you not really think of it in those terms? Actually, I had some respect on one hand, for many of the attacks that we had, and what they went through, but I still hated them, all right, a strange element there. Other times they were no better than a dog. I can remember that frequently it was very calm out, and of course, it was very humid and very hot, we would be sitting in a landing zone in a jungle area, and it was a distinctive marijuana smell—it’s a funny thing, and my son still doesn’t believe me to this day, I have never had one marijuana smoke. 46:14 I’m not saying good for me or anything like that, I just didn’t, because I was so concerned, in Vietnam, in having my wits about me, I didn’t want anything affecting me. It isn’t a noble thing at all; it’s just self-preservation. There was something so distinctive about the marijuana smell, and it just floated through the air, and that usually preceded the attacks the next day. That was at night that we would sense that, and we would be hit the next day. A couple times we were hit at night, but not very often. Interviewer: You mentioned that you got—the enemy is using marijuana etc., and did the people out in the field, the American soldiers, did they do much in the way of using drugs? 47:01 23 �Oh yeah, some of them were, and we had access. Villagers would come out and find us even though we didn’t see the village, the villagers would find us, especially when we were closer in our deployment to the villages. They would come out, and we would never be under attack then, they come out and dress their kids up in all sorts of great ways, and so on and so forth, and they would offer a lot to us. Many of the soldiers could not deal with things, took them up on it, and bought whatever they could of the drugs that they could take. Interviewer: Now, was their enough of that sort of thing to cause problems within the units? If there was, I was never aware of it. It was pretty much kept under wraps, either ignored or the ones using it were careful how they used it. Interviewer: So, it wasn’t as if a unit was not functioning in a moment of crisis, or when it needed to because of that? 48:04 You know, it’s a funny thing too—as I recall, most of the time the group I was with were never under that influence, and again, I don’t know why, but we just weren’t. I suspect that the others had been through so much garbage with the initial confrontations with the enemy, they had to do it just to maintain their sanity, I don’t know. Interviewer: Another issue that sort of comes up a lot with units in Vietnam is racial or ethnic issues. What kind of mix of people did you have in you platoon? The kind of mix of people--I would put it at probably seventy-five percent Caucasian, and twenty-five percent African American. Interviewer: Did the different groups mostly keep to themselves? 24 �Absolutely, when it was relaxing time, or down time, the blacks were off by themselves. The whites were off by themselves, and even those groups had other splits too. 49:19 But, by and large, the blacks had the attitude, in our unit, that they weren’t going to extend themselves for anything to endanger themselves, but they would obey the rules. We tolerated each other until it came to a scrimmage, and all of a sudden there was no color. It’s the funniest thing , it was distinctive, absolutely distinctive, once the fighting started , and all of us, black and white, were drawn into the battle. You would have some black and some white that would be chicken, hide in a foxhole behind us, the enemy's foxhole, bunkers of the enemy behind us, and there wasn’t any distinction between black and white. 50:19 There were some black and white up on the front line of the assault, so it wasn’t a color thing it was an individual thing, but the ones that were really fighting, you had no concern about the guy next to you, regardless of his color, doing what he had to help you out and visa versa. Interviewer: Now did you spend, pretty much, the rest of your time in Vietnam in this particular sector, in this specific area? Yes, primarily because it became such a hot area, it was recognized as a critical encampment in a place, a trail, a primary trail, the Ho Chi Minh Trail, of which you would get a lot of side trails off, and establishment of many, many enemy troops. 51:18 Interviewer: How long were you actually out there? Did you spend the whole year in Vietnam, or did you leave early? I spent one year in Vietnam, the whole year in the field. Interviewer: So, you’re there in that sector the better part of eight months, or something like that? 25 �That’s correct Interviewer: Over the course of that time, did you have a lot of turnover in personnel, were men going in and out, being wounded? The biggest turnover of personnel we had because of wounded or killed in action. You had some ready to leave because they put in a year, but that was a small percentage to be honest. 52:07 Most did not see the full year for one reason or another, at least with the group I was with. Interviewer: Basically, but if people were in on their own sort of calendars, or whatever, they would come in at different times and leave at different times? Yes Interviewer: Over the course of the year, most of your unit would have turned over while you were there? Yes, by virtue of the calendar most of the unit would have turned over, but it turned over two to three times within that year, although that was the bigger perspective. Interviewer: So, in that process, do you kind of move up in rank and seniority, get promoted, or get assignments beyond being just a rifleman? Yes, I did, and actually I became a radio operator, I was on a squad level finally, I was a grenadier, then a rifleman, and then became a radio operator. 53:08 I liked that because it kept me—I was more in the middle of the action of knowing what was going on, I’m talking about, and by virtue of knowing what was going on you had to many times be more up at the front of the action, with your boss, to determine what was going on, what was needed and so on and so forth, but I liked that. I remember the radio operator for the whole company, not just the platoon, but the company, had finished his year and was 26 �going home, and they pulled me up from squad level to company level with—surprised me, and I didn’t know why, but obviously I was able to do some things that they were comfortable with. 54:02 So, I came alongside this Captain I didn’t like, and actually started to be his radio operator, for him, and over the other operators in the company. Interviewer: By the time you became his radio operator, had you developed a certain respect for him yet, or was he still disliked? Oh, much more, and by virtue of being intimately in everything, by virtue of communicating while we were on patrol, to the radio, or even being part of the strategy with the key sergeants in the rest of the platoons and squads. I became much more knowledgeable of what was going on, and really started to gain more respect for his presence, his knowledge, and wisdom, the whole shot. 55:01 Interviewer: Now, were there particular operations that you did that were of a larger scale than others? I mean, did you get involved with certain things and brigade level actions, or was it pretty much all company, platoon, battalion stuff? There were a handful of brigade sweeps, and there was one specific battalion sweep that they put us on. I remember that they did not want the enemy to know where we were, so we went quite a few days without any supplies being sent in as we started to go out on this sweep. We started on that battalion sweep, again not running into much. There were many other times before that, that we would either run into the enemy or villagers hiding in the enemies bunkers and so on, so forth. 56:08 But, we started on the sweep, and the Captain I mentioned to you was a very gung ho fellow. His father, it turns out, was a General, was a three star General, so he had career in his mind for the military, and already had that ingrained in him to a great degree. He wanted to get first hand into a 27 �battle instead of always coming in after a battle and trying to help out some other group, which is frequently what we had to do. Let me back up if I may, Jim, because something else came to mind. One of the larger engagements that we ran into—one company that was the worst of all the companies in running into problems, and losing most of their men, ran into a major force in one of their larger patrols. 57:11 It turns out they ran into a massive hospital complex of the North Vietnamese, extremely massive, of underground hospital rooms, and tunnels, and everything else extraordinary. The company was probably, seventy-five percent wiped out from the standpoint of wounded or killed. Our company, part of our company was selected to go in and rescue them in the midst of this massive force. So, we finally go in there, in that area, in the dark, and we managed to walk around, somehow anticipated, and somehow they knew what the safest way was to get to this stranded company, what was left of it.. 58:10 We got to them, pulled them all back in—there was a small area of bamboo, and other jungle that we were in, and all of a sudden the word came down, everybody stay quiet, not engage the enemy, and don’t move. We were a relatively small force, relatively, and it turns out, at that point, probably thirty or forty feet away from us, the whole complex had been evacuated by the enemy, probably right in front of us. If we had engaged them we would have all gotten killed because there were so many of them. So, they let them go, we pulled—we sensed they were out—we pulled back with the injured and dead company people, got them made in the perimeter, and that’s when the B52 bomb strike came in. 59:11 That’s when I was raised off the ground because it was so close to us, and that was by accident because they had no idea that was there. So, that was the first one, and the second one 28 �was this other battalion sweep—I hope I’m not making this too long for you Jim? Interviewer: Oh, no The second battalion sweep—we were on the far edge with the rest of the battalion, and we had already been going on it, as I recall, probably two or three days. When we went through an area, our Captain told the first sergeant, “take the squad down over here, I’m not sure what’s down in this lower area here to our side. No one else has been through, but let’s make sure we have that cleared as we go through”, so we started going through with the rest of the company. 60:00 This squad happened to run right into a bunker complex of the enemy, and immediately our Captain ran off to rescue them, even ahead of our troops, and, of course, I had to be with him as the radio operator. I remember him running so fast, and me having all this weight on my body, thinking, “What are we doing?” The first sergeant was injured, as well as a few others, and by that time we had become a family in a sense, if you can understand that. The whole company went over, followed the Captain, and it was the most unorganized focus I had ever seen him have. I was concerned for the group he sent over there, and he had a real tizzy for the first sergeant; it turns out, I was told later, who was sent there to make sure was protected because they saw bigger and better things for him, bigger commands, all right? 1:09 As well as the rest of the squad that was attacked, he was concerned about them, but he was real excited about confronting, first hand, the enemy. I remember us getting down to that area, with the whole company disorganization of chaotic, strategic movement, and he identified where the squad was, and sent some of the company over to be with them, and at the same time there was a bunker right in front of where we were at the moment. We had already started to walk through the bunker complex—I remember even seeing clothes 29 �strung out, and they didn’t even know we were there. I remember, they just weren’t expecting us. 2:04 So, they had quickly evacuated some of those bunkers, and we started to walk through them without resistance. We ran up to one bunker that was firing quite heavily at us, the Captain turned to the group, there was a group of about six of us in the command group, and he turned to us and said, “I want to take this bunker”. He looked at me and said, “Rich, you take a small group around and attack this entrance, there’s another side entrance I’m going to go around to with a couple men”. We got out of a jungle area into what was a clearing just before the bunker, and all of a sudden everything blew. It is every interesting, one of the two fellows with me was a black fellow from New Orleans it turns out. 3:03 He saw more in New Orleans than many of us saw in Vietnam. He was a hardened street guy, very hardened; I mean scars on his face from gang confrontations and all that. I mean, he had been through it, and he had been put in the command post because he had two weeks to go before he was scheduled to leave the country, and they wanted to keep him safe. Vividly, Jim, I remember him turning to me, the strangest look in his eye, and he told me, “let’s go get em”. This was a guy that did not stick his neck out for any other situation up to that point. That was part of what made it so distinctive, along with his being what they called “a short timer”. We proceeded to assault this bunker. 4:01 He went to one trail and I went to another trail, and this fellow, his name was Hughie Williams, as a matter of fact, it turns out in a visit to the Vietnam memorial, they have his section of the wall in Smithsonian, the strangest thing, his name was there, and it just blew us all away. We had to get close together, on this trail, before we got out in the clearing, and as soon as we got out in the clearing he got shot in the head and thrown back into me. I proceeded to start to go, the other guy 30 �was also shot and killed, that was with me, and for some reason they didn’t have a clear shot at me. Bullets started coming down the trail towards me, and I suspect you’ve heard it before Jim; it’s incredible slow motion of what takes place. 5:01 It’s almost like b-ab-o-o-m, b-a-b-o-o-m, b-a-b-o-o-m, and if there could be a funny side to this—I saw the bullets come down the trail, I don’t remember training for that, and I thought, and this is my mentality of my upbringing, I thought, “What would John Wayne do?” That is not a joke, that is honestly what I thought, and I thought, “get out of the way, stupid”, and so, I flipped, and of course it was all happening very quick, and they got a bead on me and shot at my head, knocked off my helmet, and grazed my head, didn’t penetrate my skull. Well, I ended up on my back, my helmet off, my eyes open, and I thought, “I’m going to pretend I’m dead”, and it was all instinctive. 6:00 The firing stopped within seconds after that, and I then got up and ran behind a tree, and I remember the Captain being brought by a medic over to me at that tree—how graphic am I supposed to get? Interviewer: As much as you have to, to tell the story. His arm was blown in half, and the medic had me hold together his arm while he put, and I found out later, was a pressure bandage on to get him ready to be medivaced. At the same time, he was continuing to give me orders, to call in medivac, call in support troops, to get withdrawal to those who had other wounded and needed to get back to the area, and then radio orders to the other sergeants, other platoon sergeants, of how to reposition their troops and then how to finish attacking the enemy. 7:02 It turns out that he was in a state of shock—I’m going to jump quite a bit ahead—1993 I got a call from a sergeant, and he started to back down, and finally he said, “Were you in Vietnam with the 1st Air Cav?” A long story short, it turns out the sergeant that I served with, and very closely 31 �served with, and he saw my name in a publication, and out of that thought he would try to contact me, and that was the first contact I’d had. Right after that, the Captain I served with, his life ended up being spared. He called me up and he was serving in the White House as a drug czar in the 90’s under Clinton. He called me up and I was working at the time with Cornerstone University here in Grand Rapids. 8:01 They came running back from the switchboard and said, “the White House is on the phone and they want to speak to you”, and I thought it was a joke or something, but they were dead serious, they were stunned, well it turned out to be him, and he said, “I thought you were killed that day”. He doesn’t remember me holding his arm together because he was in shock, but his mind was so ingrained with his responsibilities, that he popped out the orders left and right. He became the youngest four star General to be commissioned, unreal—his name is Barry McCaffrey. Interviewer: Oh, sure A brilliant guy, and I didn’t know back when I hated him in Vietnam, when I was a kid, a stupid, snot nosed kid. How brilliant this guy was, just extraordinary. 8:54 Ok, let me back up, so, we put him together, started to go back, and I remember the medic saying “there’s the enemy, shoot em”, and I looked around and said, “what, where?” He grabbed my rifle and started to spray into the bunkers that were behind us and we were going back to get to medivac. It turns out that several of our own men had gotten scared and hid in those bunkers. Oh, I so detested them because they weren’t helping the situation. So, the medivac could not land because it was such thick jungle. They had to hoist him up, but they finally got him out and then some of the rest of us that weren’t so drastically injured could finally be treated by the field hospital at that time. But, that was 32 �the most distinctive thing, what happened in the rest of the battalions, I don’t know. 9:55 But, in days ensuing, they ran into a massive force, maybe the company, and at least the brigade of that battalion that was in that area, that was in the outskirts of the enemy. Interviewer: How far into your tour was that? Do you have any sense? That was March 9th, and I’ll never forget that day of 1969. Interviewer: You were pretty well into it then, you had been out there for some time? Yes, correct Interviewer: You’re spending a lot of time out there and you’re largely---did you get breaks? Did you get R&R? Did you get to go out of the combat zone at all? Not me up to that point in time. I was due for an R&R, by virtue of my seniority, to get some place, and I frankly wanted to look at another round eyed person, and I asked for Australia, everybody asked for Australia, so I had to wait until my seniority got to me, and I eventually went there after that skirmish. 11:06 I can’t remember when it was, if it was the end of March or April when I finally got to go. That would have been the first break. Interviewer: You never got to go back away from the front lines? You were pretty much always in the field? Always, and the only exception to that was right after that intensive skirmish where I was injured and the captain was injured, and many others killed—I remember one guy, still alive, had his face blown off at point blank range in that whole skirmish—I remember it was just an intense time. We found out later we were at the edge of a huge force. Right after that, I remember our unit was finally given some down time in the secured area 33 �outside Phuoc Vinh, I do remember the name of that town. 12:03 I spent a week in the rear, they had stitched me up, and things finally—ended up they put me back out in the field, and I was so jumpy, Jim, it was not funny. To the point where I thought artillery, our own artillery going overhead, from way out in the field, I thought was incoming for us, and I remember diving in, it must have been a six-foot foxhole that had been there for a while, and I remember hurting my head because I landed on my head, but that’s how jumpy I was. After that, I honestly don’t know if I was as effective as I was before. Before, I really had it together by virtue of the training, not because I was so good, but by virtue of the training, I’m talking about, and acting out what I was supposed to do, listening to orders, and handling my responsibilities, and so on and so forth. 12:57 Interviewer: Now did you continue to serve as the company radio operator, or did you do something else after that? No, I did, I did, and it was distinctive. Of course when you become close to someone like that it became, with this Captain, even in the two months I was serving with him. The captain that replaced him, I just had trouble finding quite that same level of respect for him, and I’m sure it was just because I was so attached to the other man, not that he was bad; I just didn’t get very close to the other captain. Interviewer: Over the course of time, that kind of intense experience does tend to take it’s toll on you, and you felt like you weren’t as effective later on as you had been for a certain stage there before that. Did you see that in the men around you, or were you not really paying attention? Yeah, I did, and you know, two things stand out. 13:58 I’m not afraid to say I was scared, and I functioned, but it was under fear. I remember the distinctive marijuana 34 �smell, but the crack of the AK47’s that they primarily used, was distinctive, and that crack, when I heard that crack—before I was injured—I mean I had a couple other mortar round incidents, and I still got some shrapnel in me, but I mean serious injury. Before that time that crack meant engage, and after that time that crack meant, “oh, no”, it was a different kind of fear. The other was an attack fear, and this other was withdrawal fear. 14:56 Interviewer: Did you see that kind of thing in the men around you too, if they were out there long enough? Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely, the ones I was with anyhow. Interviewer: Another dimension of this, you mentioned a while back that there were cases where you were near villages, and civilians would come out and sell you things etc. How much contact, or how much did you actually see of the civilian population, because you’re never in the cities or places like that? Very little, and when we swept in an area that was close to a village it was a refreshing time. You would get pop sold for ridiculous amounts of money, I mean it was a real treat, and all of a sudden it was real people, and for whatever reason they put on a front as being very friendly. They—of course having to live in that had to be a different kind of experience for sure, but they were trying to take advantage as much as they could to survive, and take advantage of the GI’s, and all this and that. 16:01 And, they dealt with you at arms length, and tried to be warm at the same time, but it was purposeful warmth, not to get close to you, but just to get out of you what they could. Very infrequently would we do that, close enough to see the villages and that would be a real treat. 35 �Interviewer: As far as you could tell the North Vietnamese weren’t really using the villages as their bases of operations or anything? Oh, there were some operations that we had intelligence that they were definitely, especially the Viet Cong, were using villages, and we would sweep through some of these villages, and I recall, my experiences when we did that, or even found some villagers hiding in an enemy bunker out some places when we were doing a search and destroy, and treating them with the utmost respect. 17:08 Totally different than what came out of the My Lai incident, and the explosiveness of that incident to the people to where we were all like that, and it just wasn’t like that, Jim. I never experienced it, I never heard of it happening, and it was a very isolated situation, but unfortunately with the unpopularity of the war, that was a great thing to take off on, and fuel all those negative feelings. Interviewer: It struck me at some point as opposed to the poster child of WWII, it was Audie Murphy, and who was the poster child for Vietnam, it was William Calley, and what was the most famous name of a soldier coming out of there, and that could be it. Interesting Jim, interesting Interviewer: You didn’t have the same level of contact with the civilian population as some of the people in the rear areas did and all that kind of stuff. It was just kind of on occasions? 18:10 When I was injured and I spent some time in the rear, I became more aware of--the military personnel were in the rear enjoying extraordinary comforts, cots, barbers, and massages, and all this and that going on. Secure, scared they might get a mortar once in a 36 �great while, and I’m thinking, “What are you talking about? What are you scared for? This is incredibly good”, but the small majority of us were out in the field, and I thought, “that’s really not fair”, but I also felt proud about it at the same time, and I was ready to do my duty, in spite of the strange feelings. Interviewer: So, basically you went to a rear area hospital then after your head injury in that incident. Basically what was the care like there, did they take good care of you when you were back there, or what? 19:05 Oh yeah, good care, and certainly there was some physical healing, but I’m sure they knew there was mental healing, and let me write some letters home, and that was started because I was not married at that time, and I didn’t want my mother to know I was injured and being that close to death, or many other times I had been involved in those things, she didn’t know any of that stuff. But I was given an opportunity to write, and I wrote to a sibling and told him to share with the others, and things like that. I was pretty much alone as I recall. The others remained in the field, or were so severely injured they had to go to Japan, or other places for work. Interviewer: In general, did you communicate much with people at home? Did you write regularly or get letters? 19:57 Yeah, and one of my fonder memories, when the moon would be full it was like daylight when you were sitting in the foxhole standing guard, and you would sit there and write and be able to see what you were writing, and I enjoyed that. I would frequently get boxes, care boxes from home, and I had fun with that. You would cherish the letters that would come out to the field with the supplies. 37 �Interviewer: Now, as you got towards the end of your year, were you counting down how long you had to stay? Big time, hugely counting down, and became more and more nervous as the time came closer. Of course, we didn’t get into major battles or skirmishes to the point where it would have been a problem for me. I remember being taken back to the secure area to where we’d be processed out, and in a couple days I was on a commercial liner headed back home, and thrilled to death. 21:00 Interviewer: Before we pick up on that, you got an R&R to actually go Australia. Can you tell me about that experience? Well, it was, as strange as it may sound, a wholesome experience. I stayed in the Sydney area, went with a fellow that I knew in the company, and we were just going to stay together, and we met some girls, and one of them was Oriental even though we went there to try to be with some round-eyed women. She was part of a bigger family that owned a ranch, and they took him back to the ranch, so he could spend time with the family. The girl I was with was a wholesome girl, dumb naïve me, maybe there were other things going on, but I just was the wholesome side. I saw what I wanted to see, and experienced what I wanted to experience. I remember being clean in Sydney, oh yeah, you experience some of the animals, so you can say you saw them, and send back some boomerangs to the family, and things like that. 22:10 It was a total relax time. You stuck out like a sore thumb, and people knew you were a GI, big time, even though you tried to put civilian clothes on, it didn’t work, with the short haircut and the posture and everything else. Interviewer: How long did you get to be there? 38 �A week Interviewer: What was it like having to go back? Not fun, and a matter of fact, when I got back I was given orders to get on a helicopter to go back to my unit, and I purposely, spent another, probably three days, reluctantly, know what to do. I found some places to sleep, some barracks that weren’t occupied, to try to determine what I was going to do. 23:02 Finally I sucked it up, and got on a helicopter and went out, and they turned their back and said, “ok, you’re here, we’ll let it go”. That’s what it amounted to, but I was not wanting to do that. Interviewer: Are there particularly any recollections that you got in the field there that you haven’t brought in, and want to add to the story before they take you home, or do you thing you hit the main ones? I had some that are standing out in my mind, but there were countless times, and specific dates, in December and January, largely when we were rescuing other companies, that we were in the middle of the thick of it trying to save them. 24:05 Sometimes it was just trying to distract the enemy; so they could fall back, when they were between us and the rest of our company—the rest of our battalion, yes battalion, from another company. So, we were distracting and yet in incredibly close situations of life and death. I mean, just real intense, and discovering even more so, from some of the many reunions that I’ve had since 1993, It is the General who would bring us back together, especially some of us sergeants, I retained the rank of sergeant obviously—move up, being the company RTO. 25:04 And we would recount things, and in almost everyone of those battles they mention my name, the handful of guys that would always hide in the back, and I remember them being reassigned to some of the companies needing to get their group 39 �larger again because of the casualties, and then becoming casualties because they were useless people. I remember that, and I remember disliking them so much for not pulling together like I thought we all were at that time. I’m trying to remember any distinctive things, Jim. Just incredibly hot—I’m a person, even at that time when I was physically fit, I think I was about 150 or 160 pounds, I think it was 160, I would carry the most water of the whole company on me. 26:08 I would carry bladders, two gallons full, five—a couple two gallons and three one gallons, at one point, one time we didn’t get supplies, I remember there were five on my back. I didn’t care, I had to have fluid because I sweat so much, but I remember the jungles being so incredibly thick, I remember being impatient with the point man and taking over. The point man was taking my machete and whacking through the undergrowth, and we’d finally start to move, very humid, other than the monsoons up north, it was all very hot and humid weather down below. We, one time went through a rubber plantation and we thought we had an enemy group, and it turns out we didn’t encounter them, if there was they got away. This is probably the most significant. 27:03 I remember several times, us finally having the enemy, I’ll just call him that, on the run. I can’t tell you how many times we were told to stop. We were given orders, from back in the rear; we’re not to go any further across the border. I mean, we were so close to taking and destroying the enemy, it’s not funny, and then we got into political games, and then there was huge frustration, Jim, huge frustration. That was so disenheartening, but our captain was really good, he would regroup us, and get us pumped up, and we would go and try to attack again. 40 �Interviewer: Now, aside from the question of the border, did you have issues with rules of engagement, or were you mostly in free fire zones where you could fire when you needed to? 28:00 Pretty much in free fire zones. Interviewer: The DMZ is pretty much like that because there are civilians up there. Yes Interviewer: Then at least outside of those villages anyway Yeah, I’m definitely talking about down by the—by Saigon, by the Cambodian boarder, yeah. Interviewer: Right Except a couple time we went through villages, and we were told to be very careful. Interviewer: Right At those times—fortunately we didn’t engage the enemy, at least in what we recognized as the enemy, and treated the others totally respectful, including the property and everything else. Interviewer: Over the course of that year, especially as you got to the last couple of months of it, after your Captain had been hurt, did you think at all about whether you were getting anywhere or making any progress? Did you feel like you were kind of accomplishing things or was it just continuing on kind of a treadmill? I felt like I was spinning wheels at that point in time, and I didn’t see any purpose to what we were doing, other than pure survival, totally. 29:05 The impetus to be aggressive against the enemy was gone at that point in time. 41 �Interviewer: Finally you do get your chance to get out, and you get to go home now. They pulled you out of the rear, and how do they get you back to the states? By commercial jet, I think it was American Airlines, or was it TWA? It may have been at that time. A stripped down, very basic version, hardly—didn’t have anything to eat, there were stewardesses, commercial airline stewardesses there, but they had extremely little contact with us, but we were ecstatic, so we didn’t care about anything, other than it being an extremely long flight, that’s how we got back. 30:00 I was flown into—oh my—I think I was flown back to California, yeah, it was California I flew back to, and then I got on a commercial—no, I got on a military flight and ended up ultimately, in Gary, but I can’t remember. Interviewer: Now, do you go home in uniform, or did you switch to civilian clothing somewhere along the way somewhere? Well, this is an area that’s probably the most difficult, other than some of the traumatic things that I experienced in the war, was the experience when I got home. I remember the plane landing in California, and I looked up and wondered, “Where are the people going to be that are welcoming us home?” Got off the plane, went through the terminal, didn’t have anybody spitting on me, but I had people walking over to the other side of the corridor to stay away from me. 31:04 I thought, “What’s going on here?” Then, stupid old me, because all I had over there was military communications of one sort or another, and of course, they were always going to talk up the right stuff, then I realized that not only was the war hated, but we were hated, and I’ve forgotten—forgiven, that may sound too strong, but I don’t know if I’ve forgiven the people for that. That’s the most disturbing thing. I’m not able to show much emotion and I’m having trouble dealing 42 �with that, but what will bring me the closest to tears is the welcoming of the other current war veterans home. 31:56 I don’t begrudge them that, that’s not where I’m coming from, but what I didn’t get, and I found out it was much more widespread, that General, the Captain that became general, he got spit on in the face. In fact, he wrote a couple books, and I got—that’s my claim to fame, I was in the books. He related that, after he returned he was spit in the face when he, and his wife were walking into a government building. It just really threw him off, but that’s probably the most difficult thing , dumb as it sounds, and almost ahead of the war trauma, alright? Interviewer: Now, you get yourself back home finally. What did you do then, once you got back to Gary? 32:54 They gave me thirty days, and of course, the immediate family, they all, “it’s great, you’re home, we’ll honor you”, but I never felt it. I didn’t feel it, I felt it was forced more than anything, and just because they loved me, I was part of the family, and that sort of thing. Nothing distinctive about the thirty days--I was assigned to D.C. from there to go, according to my orders, to the Honor Guard. I thought, “oh, that’s nice”, a nice little finish to my six months is what it was. I got there and they said, “you have to re-up for two years”, and I said, “What are you talking about?” The said, “the training is six months alone, for what you’ll have to do”, and I said, “I’m not re-upping for nothing, I’m not going to stay in this army any longer than I have to”, so they made me a drill sergeant at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, of all things, so that’s how I finished out my time, being able to dish out to the new troops what I had to take. 33:58 So, I put on the hat of a drill sergeant and I, unfortunately, played it up to the hilt, but with the design in mind that 43 �I knew many of them were going to face potentially dangerous situations, and I was intent on them being ready for that. Interviewer: Did you tell them much of anything about Vietnam, or did you just not do that because that’s not what a drill sergeant does? No, we did not, I remember putting on a demeanor of a true drill sergeant and being a real jerk, is what it is. It was to the point that some of the recruits could have mopped up the floor with me, and through a number of situations, they were told by another sergeant, to take me out, and I remember them saying, “he’s crazy”, so my role was fulfilled. They listened to everything I did from day one, but at the end of the cycle I was treating them right too. 35:09 Once they finally finished accomplishing what they were supposed to in that basic training. Interviewer: Now, finally having—you get your discharge now, it’s early 1970 by then, and what do you do in terms of picking up your life at that point? I remember going back and knowing I had to get a job. When I left the army, I wanted to leave the army, and any connection I had with it, and Vietnam behind me because I became painfully aware of the feelings about that whole situation. Didn’t understand them fully because I’d been taught like—this is right, they’re wrong, take care of them, this aggression, da, da, da, and then hearing, we were all wet, so it was very confusing. 36:10 So, I thought—further, the distaste that I experienced with the Vietnam War, and all that were in it together, I didn’t want people to know, so I stayed away from that subject in my life like that was never a part of my life, to the extreme. Interviewer: Did you go back to school or start working? 44 �Yeah, I started to work, and had some great experiences at work, ended going back, at age thirty-five, to get a college degree with a family and a full time job, not the best way to do it, but all of a sudden that finally became beneficial to me, it was fun to do, it was a huge struggle, but it was an enormous satisfaction of the accomplishment because I was ready to interact and all. 37:18 Of course, being a little older I could relate different things, even though I felt funny with a largely standard college crowd, like they would look like, “What are you doing here, old man?” You could relate to the professor in much more of a life experience way, and that made it a rich time. Interviewer: Where did you go to college? Toledo University, as a matter of fact. Interviewer: What kind of work had you been doing before you went to college? I worked with the phone company. I became the district manager in four states over hotels, with the Howard Johnson Company, back in their heyday, in the seventies. Through a variety of things that occurred, I was going into college work, but I was redirected to be the business manager, administrator is what I think they called me, of an extremely large church and Christian school in Toledo in 1982. 38:23 they had a staff of eight guys, and they needed somebody to head up the finance group, their maintenance, their printers, their computers, the school, all the personnel, all the human resources type thing, and all this and that, so the pastors could do their functions in a spiritual way, and so, I guess that sounds like I did the unspiritual part, huh? So, I did that for eight years, and then I was invited to Cornerstone University in 1990, and came here to Grand Rapids for that. 38:59 I came as the director of estate planning, a totally different field than what I had been in. 45 �Interviewer: Then do you also have a connection with the Salvation Army, is it? No, I’m with the Salvation Army, doing essentially that work of—they have given me the title of Planned Giving Director, of the division, Western Michigan, and Northern Indiana Division, and it’s essentially estate planning work, but it’s raising deferred funds for the Salvation Army, is what it is, Jim. Interviewer: You wound up working for various religious organizations, or institutions, was faith or spirituality part of your life back when you were out there in Vietnam? Absolutely not—it’s interesting—when, back when that came to me—came to, then started rolling on the ground, I remember the machine gunner flying off to the side and out of the way, me rolling over behind the stump, and I rolled back over. I thought, “I’m ok, I went to church when I was young”, and my mother was always took me there. 40:10 My father died when I was about nine years old, and my mom raised me the rest of the way, and she always took me to church. I thought, “ok, I know there’s a God, I’m just going to pray to him”, but as soon as I started to pray I stopped because I thought, “I don’t know God”. I went through all of Vietnam without any direct relations, if you would call it that, with God. But, an unbelievable peace, strange in one sense, but I felt comfortable, and as I said, I got a grenade would, I got shrapnel wounds, and I still got some shrapnel in me. 41:07 I remember recruits saying, “One firefight, you were dynamic. We never would have made it without your being so solid, and such under fire”. We were off on the flank in one firefight. There was an enemy, some enemy behind us we didn’t know about, and their tracers were white—tracers were coming right over my head, but I didn’t know it, and I never told them I had no idea—I made them 46 �think I was really good, you know, and really tough. But, through all those things, many close encounters, and obviously being shot in the head, just inch and I wouldn’t be here talking with you, I know. Extraordinary situations, I went through all that without a faith, one that I could identify, ok? 42:07 Interviewer: Now, if you had to look back over that whole experience in the military, you’ve addressed parts of this already, but how would you say all of the affected you or changed you? Were you different at all when you came out, or did you know more when you came out than when you went in? Know more about what? Interviewer: Well, either yourself or the world around you in the one way, or do you think you were a different person than you were when you went in? I think, at least through the early nineties, I did a magnificent job of compartmentalizing everything up to that point in time. I had a compartment of my association with the war, and all that it did to me, and I locked the door and kept it in that little corner of my mind, ok? 43:06 So, I functioned as a normal person, what you call normal, productive person, let me put it that way, in society. I established a family, a good group of friends, I was doing good work, both in the secular environment as well as a full time Christian vocational environment, felt very satisfied until I was discovered in the early nineties, and it has been, frankly, very hard since then until now. A lot of things have come back, and that’s what I have trouble dealing with. 44:07 All of a sudden that door unlocked, and I don’t know who got the key to unlock it, but it’s not been a fun ride. In the sense that during the time that I was able to lock that door, and people close to me found out I was a drill sergeant, they would say, “you’re not the kind of guy to ever be a drill 47 �sergeant”, they couldn’t picture me, but that was the way I was coming across to them. The last few years have been real hard relationally. When people—I’m still married, it didn’t cause a divorce, it certainly caused pressures. My wife didn’t understand, and doesn’t to this day, not fully. She accepts some things, but she doesn’t understand. 45:01 I’m not faulting her for that, she just can’t. I’ve had a couple reunions, many ones in southern Michigan, with some of the guys that I served with. I’ve had a couple larger ones in Washington D.C., including an interesting reunion with that General, which is, of course, emotional by itself, though I didn’t show it, it was, inside, very emotional. Coming up to those reunions, I dreaded them, going to them, to the point that I would even be late for the start time of those reunions. Yet, after I went to them I felt encouraged because I got to share with other guys that went through some of the same garbage. 45:58 You hear all sorts of different stories, and, of course, some of them it’s everybody’s perspective, so I take it all with a grain of salt, but I still struggle profusely. I just missed one in July, and I’ll miss one in D.C., probably in November, because I just can’t face up to it. The General has invited me to it. He still has great connections and we get to go to the Vietnam Center, it’s around Veterans Day, there’s a wall ceremony and we get special front row seats, and recognized, and we can go to the wreath laying ceremony, by the President, and he really treats us right and all that, but in spite of all that good stuff, it’s still just really hard to deal with. Interviewer: Well, given that, I would like to close and thank you for coming and giving your time to tell me your story. You’ve done a good job and there’s a lot here that people are going to learn from. Thank you very much. 47:05 Thank you, Jim. 48 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dorsey, Richard (Interview transcript and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dorsey, Richard Description An account of the resource Richard Dorsey was born in 1946 in Gary, Indiana. After graduating from high school and briefly attending college, Dorsey attempted to the join the Air Force, who denied him because of a bad knee, although the Army eventually drafted him. Following basic training at Fort Bliss, Texas and advanced training at Fort Polk, Louisiana, Dorsey deployed to Vietnam in 1968 and was assigned to the 1st Cavalry Division near the DMZ. After several months, the division moved south to an area near the Cambodian border and stayed there for the rest of his tour. Dorsey's company saw a lot of combat, and due to combat losses and troop rotation, he became a radio operator, and eventually his company commander's radio operator. After his tour, he served as a drill instructor at Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-09-23 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DorseyR Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/31d4b3b24efbde84aa99498d5ed8025e.mp4 c7f1fde5758c8855e9ea0f185d9dc15c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e8d05c40823a7f803de07793aec11404.pdf 3adf32d8d6c49a95794e8487707242a5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project George Dorman Cold War/Vietnam War 36 minutes 36 seconds (00:00:12) Early Life and Enlisting in the Air Force -Born on May 25, 1930 in Manistique, Michigan (Upper Peninsula) -He quit high school at the age of seventeen, so that he could join the military -Growing up during WWII made him want to serve -Cousins had been killed in action during WWII -Parents wouldn’t allow him to join the military early -Joined the Air Force on June 16, 1948 after he turned eighteen -Joined when the Army Air Corps became the Air Force (00:01:44) Training and Deployment to Guam -Sent to Lackland Air Force Base, San Antonio, Texas for basic training -Basic training lasted thirteen weeks -Given thirty days of leave after he completed basic training -Got deployed to Guam -Originally supposed to go to Clark Field in the Philippines -He was stationed at Northwest Field -They had three squadrons of P-47 fighters from WWII -One squadron was the former Flying Tigers -Supposed to give the P-47s to the Filipino Air Force -Planes were unfit for flying -Seventy five planes wound up getting scrapped and buried on the island (00:04:05) National and International Deployments -After Guam he was sent to Howard Air Force Base in the Panama Canal Zone -Stationed with the 23rd Fighter Wing -Got moved from Howard AFB to Albrook Air Force Base closer to the Panama Canal -Spent a total of thirty months in Panama -After Panama he was sent to Kelly Air Force Base, San Antonio, Texas -Served there for a year -Received orders to be transferred to French Morocco -Part of Army Airways Communications System (AACS) unit -Stationed at Nouasseur Air Force Base outside of Casablanca -Served thirty months in French Morocco -After Morocco he was shipped to Kinross Air Force Base, Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan -Served two years there -Transferred to Stewart Air Force Base in New York -Part of the support air craft unit for West Point -Served two years there -After Stewart Air Force Base he was sent to Thule Air Force Base in Greenland -He believed that growing up in Upper Peninsula, Michigan would prepare him -20mph winds and -40oF temperature was a shock to him �-Served a year in Greenland -Sent to Montana to work with the Air Force nuclear missile operations -Insured that if silos and missile facilities needed service they received it -Served a year in Montana -Got sent to Torrejon Air Force Base, Madrid, Spain -U.S. Air Force was supporting the Spanish Air Force -U.S. gave Spain aircraft -In return the U.S. was allowed to use Spanish airbases -Served three years in Spain -After Spain he was sent to Fairchild Air Force Base, Spokane, Washington -Served two years there -By now he had already served twenty years in the Air Force (00:09:59) Deployment to Vietnam -Voluntarily went to Vietnam -Wanted to be a part of the war and fight alongside his friends -He was deployed to the 7th Air Force Headquarters at Tan Son Nhut -His job was to help turn American airbases over to the South Vietnamese Air Force -Helped establish schools at Binh Thuy, Da Nang, and Saigon -Taught South Vietnamese pilots how to operate American equipment -Got to know a large amount of South Vietnamese pilots in the process -Travelled extensively around Vietnam as part of his duty -Was able to see Pleiku and Bien Hoa areas as well -There was a definite cultural divide between the Americans and the Vietnamese -Had a good relationship with them nonetheless -Served a year in Vietnam (00:12:30) Coming Home & Leaving the Air Force -Returned home and was stationed at K.I. Sawyer Air Force Base, Marquette, Michigan -By this time had enough service time to retire -Stationed only ninety miles from his hometown -Hated being stationed at K.I. Sawyer Air Force Base -Did not enjoy working with bomber crews -More involved work than with fighter pilots -Completely different attitude -Discharged out of K.I. Sawyer Air Force Base -Left active duty Air Force after twenty three years of service -Stayed in the Air Force Reserves for seven years -Had a total of thirty years of service (00:14:20) Life after the Air Force -Went to Muskegon, Michigan -Got a job as a union representative for Service Employees International -Was able to get the job because a close friend was a union official -Helped organize school, city, and other public employees -Worked for them for three years -Went back to school at Muskegon Community College -Graduated with honors -Became the head of television programming at the school �-Joined a material handling company in Grand Rapids, Michigan -Ultimately retired from that (00:16:54) Reflections on Service -Learned a lot (academically speaking) from serving in the Air Force -Did not graduate from high school before joining, so training was a learning experience -Found being in a supply squadron to be an interesting duty -Learned to get along with people from a variety of different regional and ethnic backgrounds -Proud to have been in the Air Force when it became its own branch of the Armed Forces -Remembers a major change being their uniforms being changed from green to blue -Learned to obey orders -Thankful that he joined the Air Force instead of the Army (00:22:22) Memorable Details about Deployment to Guam -Remembers the KP (kitchen patrol) squadron going on strike -They were thrown in jail by the Air Force police -He and his squadron became the replacement squadron for KP -Found that the food was infested with bugs -Had to walk across the base just to take a shower -Water was cold -Entire base was outdated and had been originally built during WWII -Enjoyed the temperature at Guam -Always looked forward to drinking Coca Cola on break -Deployment to Guam was an interesting experience for an eighteen year old -Especially being able to see the famed P-47 Flying Tigers (00:26:27) Memorable Details about Deployment to French Morocco -Worked at Nouasseur Air Base depot outside of Casablanca -Lived in the city of Casablanca -Had to deal with roadblocks and French military checkpoints -French and the Arabs were at war with each other -Always had to immediately identify oneself as an American -On his way to taking his wife to the base to give birth to their child got stopped at a checkpoint -Had a French soldier put a machine gun to his head -Allowed to go through after a French officer realized he was an American -Wife was able to give birth to their son at the base hospital (00:28:51) Further Reflections -Wished that he had stayed in, and graduated from, high school prior to enlisting -Mathematics courses in the Air Force were a shock to him -Air Force tutor helped him pass the classes though (00:30:10) Further Early History -He could have had a job if he had stayed in Manistique and graduated high school -Did not want to stay in Manistique -Would have worked for his father’s cement contractor business (00:30:43) Supply Squadron Stories -Worked with the F-102 fighter jets -Had a request for a F-102 jet engine in the middle of the night -Had it delivered to the engine shop -Turns out that an F-102 was leaking jet fuel out of the engine �-Engine manufacturer representative and shop officer modified the jet engine -Not allowed without government approval -Had their unit’s test pilot fly it to check it for safety -Had to help a young pilot who ran his jet into a hangar door -Ripped off the left wing tip -Helped get the wing repaired -Same test pilot from the engine story checked the safety of the repaired wing -Modification on the jet engine worked extremely well -Representative and shop officer were rewarded for their ingenuity -Air Force worked with Howard Hughes’ company -He had perks from having connections with the Howard Hughes representative -Worked with an aircraft called the Scorpion -Prone to crashing -Friend refused to fly it after crashing in it -As a result got kicked out of the Air Force � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dorman, George (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dorman, George Description An account of the resource George Dorman was born in Manistique, Michigan, in 1930. He grew up in Manistique and enlisted in the Air Force in 1948. Over the course of twenty years he was deployed to Guam, the Panama Canal Zone, Texas, French Morocco, Michigan, New York, Greenland, Montana, Spain, and Washington, and then volunteered for Vietnam. He was attached to the 7th Air Force Headquarters in Tan Son Nhut and was a part of an operation that was helping to turn American airbases in Vietnam into South Vietnamese airbases. He served a year in Vietnam and returned to Michigan for his final deployment to K.I. Sawyer Air Force Base in Marquette, Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Coccia, Kayleigh (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-03-23 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DormanG1501V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/55325d8f52a38f74976fd5c19ac20317.m4v c2dfa2a026b6c408b1b4af6b08069484 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0b2b7f87fbb7335e1477f5191027ef18.pdf 0afa59ad2bb456e00de1c4258c3ab054 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project World War II Joseph Dorgan Length of Interview (00:16:58) Introduction (00:00:00) Born November 10, 1925 Served in World War II in the Navy Highest Rank was Postman’s Mate 2nd Class Birthplace: Washington, D.C. 1925 Enlisted in the Navy when he was 17, still had been in high school Found the Navy to be the most interesting of the three services Wasn’t difficult to adapt to military life Service (00:01:35) Training was only three weeks, took that long due to vaccinations  Learned very little, learned about the Navy and what it meant to be there, peacetime  Would have been 3-6 months of training, but they needed the people  Dec., 7 1941 was the start of the War, Dorgan had to wait another year to get in Served most of his time on Naval Armed Guard, naval gun crews on merchant ships (00:02:28)  U.S. Naval Armed Guard  Brooklyn, NY was the home base for Atlantic crossings; transferred to the West Coast to San Diego  Made a trip as far as the Philippines Stationed on merchant ships that carried military goods, convoys as big as 100 ships (00:03:40)  Sometimes destroyers escorted the ships Saw very little action, just went back and forth across the N. Atlantic (00:04:16) Had seen some ships get hit by torpedoes (00:05:10) �When off duty, would go to the nearest bar (00:05:30)  Some men would be on board long lengths of time, 2 to 3 years, so the first thing they’d do is get a drink 20-25 men per merchant ship, all seamen and a couple bosun's mates (00:06:05)  Had four hour watches which changed by rotation, quite boring  Nowhere near the action in the Pacific End of Service (00:07:30) Not sure where he was when the War ended, probably out at sea  Down near San Diego, processed there  Dorgan still had a year to serve because he signed up for 4 years  Was transferred to Washington, D.C., where his home was One Marine and one sailor would act as police, this is what Dorgan’s duty was onshore (00:08:50)  Shore Patrol Wasn’t difficult to readjust to civilian life, quite young when he had joined Didn’t stay in contact with fellow veterans His time in the Navy helped him grow up, even though it wasn’t interesting (00:10:10)  When aboard ship, would go weeks or days without seeing anything  Played a lot of cards The ship weighed 10,000 tons (00:12:05)  Sometimes carried ammunitions or bombs Dorgan feels he was blessed because some of the other men on the ship had been a part of ships that had been attacked by enemy submarines �Matured in the Navy, learned discipline (00:13:35) Returned home by taking a train to New York to Washington, D.C. (00:14:15)  Had a two older brothers in the war, Air Force and Navy  One was a gunner in the Air Force and the other served on submarines and merchant ships  On Dorgan’s ship, would either fire a 3in. 0.50mm at the bow of the ship; 4 in.0.50 or 5in. 0.38 in the stern; or a 0.20mm machine gun, ships had four on starboard and four on portside  Ships had tight living spaces because it included the merchant ship’s crew � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dorgan, Joseph (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dorgan, Joseph Description An account of the resource Joseph Dorgan enlisted into the Navy in 1942 at the age of 17 during the Second World War. He served a majority of his time in the Armed Naval Guard. on merchant ships in convoys in the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Pitsch, Eric (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-05-30 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DorganJ Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b1916580d512150f18b67869dbe5663a.m4v e5c3a3874d060d25029a5715b7e07401 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/56fc44b291540f424e5f64953a732235.pdf 232f369464d7712502ea42bf0593eba4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project World War II Mark Doren Length of Interview (01:02:22) Introduction Is very happy to do the interview, glad that someone will get to hear what he has to say and understand what really happened Part of the Battle of the Bulge, one of the most well known campaigns If the invasion of Normandy had not been successful, Doren isn’t sure where we would be today (00:01:48)  Germans had been heading to England, who had nearly given up, the French had already capitulated; Germany had gotten far  Eisenhower had already planned the invasion o Loss was unbelievable but inevitable; Eisenhower knew it would be dangerous and costly; already prepared a script for the press if the invasion failed o “If this invasion fails, our men have fought valiantly. They’ve done everything they could; and if there is any blame to be laid, it’s on my planning.”---General Eisenhower (00:03:55) o Doren thought that was quite a statement, especially in later years after the War  Joined the units later that went through France, Belgium, Luxembourg; all heading to Berlin (00:04:40) Part of the Battle of the Bulge, one of the most noted campaigns (00:05:05)  Happened during Germany’s worst blizzard in recorded history  Couldn’t see fences in the field because the snow covered them; bitterly cold  Part of the 86th Reconnaissance Battalion o Main job to run reconnaissance for the company and its attachments  When getting close to Belgium, the Bastogne area, Germans made a big breakthrough; our forces suffered great losses (00:06:00) �  101st Airborne dropped [drove] into Bastogne, Doren’s unit [4thArmored Division] went in to relieve them Hundreds and thousands [not all that many killed out of the 101st] of Paratroopers slaughtered there o Saw the remains of what was left (helmets) o Bitterly cold  Made two attempts to get into Bastogne  Was hard to get into because German artillery were zeroed in there  Would have to back off and then attempt again  Bastogne was one the last places that Hitler pushed for in order to stop the Americans; Doren was part of the unit that overtook the Germans Drafted (00:09:00) Didn’t have many ambitions to be in the Army, was married and had three children Received a letter saying he was chosen to be in the Army; “Congratulations you’ve been selected to a part of the Army.” Had gotten a 6 month deferment the first time because of his job, but eventually went Was 26 years old at the time Didn’t have a problem with basic training, wished he could have gone home at the end of each day During training, always wound up in a group acquainted with mechanics  Did a lot of mechanic work for Chevrolet in Grand Rapids Constantly interviewed and put into a different position; put with men who had all done mechanic work Was supposed to be sent to a Specialist School in Florida; dealt with electronics, engineering, radio, and mechanics (00:12:15) The night before getting out of basic training, the found out they wouldn’t continue with Specialist School, sent to another camp  All mechanic training thrown out the window, but Doren saw it as a blessing in disguise � Difficult to operate as a mechanic in the Army 86th Reconnaissance Battalion Assigned to the 86th Reconnaissance Battalion, assigned to the Motor Pool (00:13:03)  Approached by the Captain who knew he had done mechanic work, this worried Doren because something obviously happened to the man who previously filled the spot he was being assigned  Introduced to the Motor Pool’s Sergeant  Didn’t understand how to check vehicles the “Army Way”  After being spoken to several times on the matter, the Sergeant eventually pulled Doren aside and told him as long as he kept the motors running, he was fine it o Army did their mechanics by the number, very confusing because he was never taught this o The Sergeant was previously a Ford mechanic, so he didn’t like the system either  Doren then describes what the Motor Pool is… (00:15:24) o Had 100 vehicles in his unit, alone o Some ran for 24 hours a day o Unit started down in France after the Invasion of Normandy  Battle of the Bulge occurred in Germany, never got to Berlin When travelling, tried to make as far as they could, constant travel (00:17:15)  Whenever walking through villages, they passed right through as long as they didn’t run into any resistance  Some villages hung white sheets out their windows to show they had surrendered  Rode in a truck with 50 caliber machine gun on top, back end with a 30 caliber; pull in a trailer behind it with spare parts o His unit reminded him of the “Beverly Hillbillies’” trucks  Would take trucks along the way or strip abandoned trucks of their wheels � A lot of the time was where the action was because they were called to the front to fix machinery  Didn’t know where they were going, knew they had a destination Did a lot of reconnaissance work at night and on foot (00:21:05) Weimar, Germany (00:21:38) Was just a normal morning when they were ordered to a destination that was being surrounded by other American troops  They were moving in on a concentration camp  Just outside of Weimar, Germany  Nobody knew what it was, saw a large towering smokestack; thought it was a factory  Went over a hill and saw a large concentration camp; high barbed fences  No opposition because the Germans had already escaped  Opened the gates and people came flooding out o It was hard to believe that human beings were treating other human beings like animals o The camp was like a boxed-in pen o They had been worked until they couldn’t work anymore o Germans had started burying many of those who died in mass graves  When the troops moved in, the furnaces still contained ashes o Doren took some pictures of it  Couple of days later, had the German citizens walk through there; may not have know what was going on there; most said they were unaware o Doren found that hard to believe  Eisenhower had sent a man over to get reports (00:26:28) o Had the troops take the citizens through the camp to make them aware of it �Doren had taken some pictures, and when he went back to America, he’d shown the pictures and people didn’t believe it happened (00:27:25)  It bothered him a lot that people didn’t believe it, it still does Good Soldier’s Medal (00:29:20) Once rescued someone from a burning plane; was something that happened, had little to do with the camps Standing in the “Chow Line,” after combat; a pilot was giving rides in a little German biplane Saw the plane coming over the trees, and it stalled then took a nose-dive Crashed in front of the place and Doren’s friend and he ran to the plane Cut a couple cables on the plane and hauled the burning man out The plane exploded when they got him out; didn’t realize there was another person in there, a girl who used to hand out coffee and donuts to the men Was in the War for about 18 months (00:33:20) Had recruited him because most of the younger men had already been drafted Battle of the Bulge was where the heaviest of losses occurred  This was why they stopped putting people through Specialist School; most went into infantry and heavy weapons  Men didn’t want to go into reconnaissance due to the danger it posed; “Sticking your neck out”  Main thing that needed to be done was to be assigned to a unit or company, otherwise you’d be herded around like cattle  Would never recommend this to any men, need a place where you belong Was never sure whether or not the mail would arrive or would be received (00:35:20)  Mail Call  His wife didn’t receive letters often, a lot of things were censored � Thought that it was a fortunate delay because rumors, contrary to now-a-days, traveled much slower and caused much less panic for the families at home o Rumors were often spread that the 86th Reconnaissance Battalion had been annihilated o Would use it as a tactical advantage to move from place to place, would white wash the cars to belie their identity (00:37:33) o Usually travelled in the black of night to surprise the enemy Remembers Gen. George Patton, made a very big impression on Doren (00:39:25)  Had two 45 Revolvers with pearl handles, his trademark  Always had his aides around him and a beautiful blonde “fräulein” at his side  Many people didn’t have many good things to say about him After reading many things on the War through the years; Doren realized why so many big speakers had gathered at one place for a rally in a combat area (00:40:30)  The spring before the Battle at Rhine River, in 1945  Had aircraft circling the area for protection  Thousands of troops there  One of the statements made (by Patton), “If you get across the Rhine River, g as far as you can as fast as you can because somebody is going to be behind you.” Started moving the next day, got across the Rhine River, pontoon bridge (00:41:53)  The bridge would dip when a truck drove on it, men had to pretty much run uphill  Under a smokescreen, Germans tried to bomb the bridge  Got on the other side and started moving; half-track runs about 50-60 mph  The man driving their truck was from Kentucky, a “hillbilly,” he only could see out of a slot about one foot in width o Made a couple remarks about getting out of there �o The kid at the top, with the machine gun, agreed with him; “Turn this thing around!”  Made a u-turn down into a field; as this happened, Doren was faced with foxholes filled with German soldiers  Fortunately, they made it back onto the road and into one of the little towns nearby for protection  That night, fixed so many tires, that he lost count; many were flattened by shrapnel  Germans were using flares to find the bridge; Doren and his crew fixed tires from the light of these flares o Very efficient at fixing tires after that; used a lot of tubing and hot patch Stayed in the town a couple days, then the aircraft came in to take care of the artillery (00:45:33)  Usually tried to find a building for protection; used a tarp as a lean-to against the halftrack when this wasn’t possible  Most of the time, they slept outside in the snow o Bastogne- there for two weeks, slept in a “shell hole” One of his most memorable memories (00:47:19)  On the way to France, crossed the English Channel  40 and 8 (“Can pack 40 men or 8 horses), packed into these box cars  3 days and 3 nights across France, on Christmas Eve.  Very narrow cars; same cars that the Germans used to carry prisoners in  Promised a Christmas Dinner in Neufchâteau, France, but Christmas had already passed  Given a barn with fresh straw, instead; thought that they had it made o Got used to thinking these as small luxuries  Most of the cooking was the same; get rations, very hard for the cooks to catch up to feeding the men o Would often cook for themselves and catch wild game; rabbits, chickens �o Had pots and pans hanging from their trucks; also had burners o The Mess Sergeant would often stay with the Maintenance Crew even though they would often be in the front lines and even beyond it Was in a little farm town (00:52:00)  Had outposts along the river, volunteered to take provision and supplies to these men  Weasel- a track vehicle, usually carried personnel  A tank column came through as they were going over  One of the tanks ran over the hogs; one of the men on Doren’s truck said, “Pick me up when you come back!” then he jumped over the side  Went to each post; along with giving supplies, they had to inform the men what the password for the day was o Had a new password everyday  On the way back, Doren saw his buddy carrying a hunk of ham; fresh meat for the day o It was an everyday thing, had to make things funny in order to keep their sanity (00:54:30)  Eventually got in trouble with taking all the chickens o They were caught once, but they were never reprimanded o Also caught rabbits, the town raised rabbits  The driver, the “hillbilly boy,” liked to cook; so he would often cook  Describes a technique on how to make coffee (00:56:35) Wouldn’t take million for the experience he had, but wouldn’t do it again for two million (00:57:23) Everybody hooted and yelled when the War was over (00:58:39)  Was in a small town, “enclosure,” when they heard the Germans had capitulated � A day after the announcement, the German civilians were going to church; the kids were all crisply dressed with a white shirts and collars with leather pants and suspenders, the little girls dressed in clean white dresses o This always impressed Doren; in spite of all that they went through, they could still continue some kind of normalcy with their lives o They were very kind people, they were just doing what they were told  Would often swap ration smokes for candy; always filled his gas flask with candy and give what he could to the children  Often used the German civilians’ homes for quarter, would try to get along with them as well as they could  Was very good with children � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Doren, Mark (Interview outline and video) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Doren, Mark Description An account of the resource Mark Doren was born in 1919 in Kent City, Michigan and served into the Army in World War II. He was drafted into the Army and attended basic training in Florida and was then sent to Europe. He served in the 6th Armored in France and Germany as a mechanic, and was part of the group that liberated the Buchenwald Concentration Camp. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Steffen, Carrie (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DorenM2 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/01ac9c0e7a92668e0f4e76b481558bf0.mp4 9c51c3e59de12191d456fa41c468c670 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1f6db079dc1639d85535bcfcfbfbd3e0.pdf 6a8afc9a135201c9805eeb5273550a7b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Mark Doren World War II Total Time: 1:42:15 Pre-War (0:00:05) • • • • • • • Born in 1919 in Kent City, Michigan. Attended a small rural school. Did not complete high school, and went to work for farmers in the area Was working for a mechanic when Pearl Harbor happened. In 1942, he started working for Sachler Products in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He was called by the draft board, and his Uncle was on this draft board. He was given a deferment the first time around, but not the second time. He was married and had three children when he was drafted into the Army. Training (0:09:26) • • • • • Boarded the train at Union Station in Grand Rapids and was sent to Florida for basic training. His drill sergeant was somewhat good and somewhat bad. On a typical day, they would have two minutes to wake up and get in formation. They would have some calisthenics and eat later in the morning. (0:14:28)Part of the reason why he was sent to Camp Blanding, Florida, for basic was that it was meant for soldiers destined to become mechanics and who would be receiving such training after basic. However, he didn’t receive the training because they changed up the camp to be infantry and heavy weapons training while he was there. After basic training, he was given a few weeks leave, and was then sent to Camp Myles Standish in Taunton, Massachusetts. Active Duty (0:19:00) • • • • During his time at Camp Myles Standish, they kept the normal army regimen while they waited for the boat to take them to Europe. (0:20:23) The ship they crossed on was the SS Washington, which was a converted luxury liner. He had never been on the ocean before this point. The ship sailed across the Atlantic alone. He landed in Liverpool, England and was sent to a camp where they slept in tents. With stone floors and a charcoal burner. They waited here for assignment as a replacement. (0:27:40) They crossed the English Channel in a small boat where they had to stay for a time. They finally crossed in late 1944 and landed in Le Havre, France. �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • (0:30:58) Was then sent to Metz, France via train. It took them several days They rode in the box cars on the train. They were placed in horse stalls when they got to their destination, and they were given weapons there. He was given a .45 Automatic. (0:38:30) At this point, he was taken to the 6th Armored Division 86th Reconnaissance Battalion by a ride in the back of a truck. He arrived in a bombed out town [Bastogne?] on New Years Eve. He worked in the motor pool of the 6th Armored because of his background in mechanics. (0:44:40) They were moving through France and Germany, and they were often assigned to lines of tanks. His first experience of battle involved seeing a dead German with his hand sticking out of the snow, and it still bothers him. They were able to tell the difference between artillery and gunfire because of the noise and tracers. There were several occasions where he had close calls. On one occasion, he was ambushed and had a piece of shell land in the space between him and the man next to him. The wounded that they had were taken behind the lines for medical relief. (0:55:10) General Gerow had a meeting with his men at one point, which he attended, before they crossed the Rhine River. They had to take and hold a town on the other side of the river, which was difficult. (1:03:05) He was part of the battles for Bastogne. They had several difficult assignments with which he was involved. Remembers seeing columns and columns of prisoners that were not led by any American troops. He recalls the victory coming over the radio. After hostilities ceased, the 6th Armored was disbanded, but they stayed in one town until the Russians took it over. He did not have good impression of the Russians. (1:16:40) His group was part of the group that liberated Buchenwald Concentration Camp. There were still people occupying the site when he was there. Remembers the poor shape of the people in the camp, and looking like they were almost death. He did not know what the camp was when he initially came across it. Remembers hooks on the walls of one building where the guards would hang people. He saw furnaces still full of burned human remains. There were no Germans when they got there. He had some contact with civilians when he was in Germany. He even had some correspondence with some German civilians after the war. He was transferred away from the 6th Armored Division to the 3rd and then 12th Armored Divisions and was then allowed to come home in December 1945. (1:39:15) His brother died in Europe, in a crash in his B-17 Bomber. Post-Service (1:33:54) �• • Shipped out of France and got sick on the way home. It took them 12 days. Arrived in New York harbor. Was discharged at Camp Atterbury, Indiana, and returned to Grand Rapids to his family. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Doren, Mark (Interview outline and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Doren, Mark Description An account of the resource Mark Doren was born in 1919 in Kent City, Michigan and served into the Army in World War II. He was drafted into the Army and attended basic training in Florida and was then sent to Europe. He served in the 6th Armored in France and Germany as a mechanic, and was part of the group that liberated the Buchenwald Concentration Camp. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Michigan Military Preservation Society (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-06-26 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DorenM1 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ec4f9dca451aabc66c0502d7a3f6489d.mp4 8c2e87b8dc559479f39329b530671e35 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b891300ec92508dc2db3be2ec99ad19d.pdf 60ea283bbfb9bbe8b41e202588c5e168 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Derk Doornbos World War II Total Time: 1:45:05 Pre-War (0:00:20) • • • • • Born in 1920 in Stannen, Netherlands. Moved to Chicago, Illinois when he was 6 months old. He then moved to Muskegon Heights, Michigan. Worked in a dairy farm when he was 15, and then worked in the Civilian Conservation Corps when he was 17. Volunteered for the Army in 1941. Training (0:07:35) • • • • • • Was sent to Battle Creek, MI and then to Camp Roberts, California. (0:8:10) Was at Camp Roberts when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. Was then sent to San Francisco, California and was assigned to the 15th Infantry Regiment of the 3rd Division. They would sometimes train in Port Lewis, Washington. (0:12:10) Was shipped from there to Tacoma, Washington and then to San Diego, CA and then to Port Orange, California. (13:14) In September, 1942 he was shipped to Camp Pickett, Virginia where they practiced landing on islands. Active Duty (15:10) • • • • • • • • • He was then put on a boat and shipped to Fedala, Morroco, where they took the city of Casablanca from the Vichy French forces there. Moved to Rabat, and stayed in Morocco for a while while they helped to liberate it. (0:19:30) Then crossed through Algeria and Tunisia. (0:20:23) They caught the tail end of the fighting in Tunisia, where he ended up in the hospital for malaria. (0:22:15) He was then sent to Sicily where they made a beach landing and took the island in one month. (0:25:25) They then landed at Salerno, Italy. (0:26:00) They fought through the Gustav Line in Italy, where the Germans and Italians had put up a heavy fight. (0:27:00) They were then counterattacked at Anzio by 5 divisions of Germans and other Axis troops for 4 months. They eventually broke through the Axis lines. (0:31:50) They marched into Rome and took the city without a fight. �• • • • • • • • • • (0:35:10) He was then shipped back to Naples, Italy where they were sent to Saint Tropez where he made his 5th landing of the war. (0:36:05) At the time of the Battle of the Bulge he was sent to Alsace to fight with the French 1st Army. (0:38:00) Was sent to an area near Switzerland to try to break through the German lines, and was also sent to the Saar area. He spent 190 days continuously fighting. Eventually, he finally crossed the Rhine at Worms. (0:39:40) They were part of the outfit that iberated Dachau Concentration Camp. (0:41:20) His unit was part of the unit that took control of Berchtesgaden. (0:45:30) They then pushed on to Raastadt, Austria and meet the Russians. He recalls the large numbers of Germans that were surrendering. Took a number of trips to Thionville, France to arrange for troops to come home. Was eventually allowed to come home in July 1945. He was flown home, which took around a month. Spends quite a bit of time on the DVD going though his collection of artifacts from the War. Post War (1:30:00) • After the war, he worked a number of jobs before he settled down and ran the sign department of the Ottawa County (Michigan) Road Commission. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Doornbos, Derk (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Doornbos, Derk Description An account of the resource Derk Doonbos was born in the Netherlands in 1920 and immigrated to the United States when he was very young. He served in the Army during World War II. He was trained as an Infantryman. He served in North Africa, where he caught malaria. He also served in Italy, fighting in Anzio and taking Rome. He was then sent to Southern France, where he landed at Saint Tropez. He also fought in northern France and into Germany and was part of the group that liberated Dachau. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McCauslin, Kelly Spring Lake District Library (Spring Lake, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-03-08 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DoornbosD Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7b2e59588753d4a0f91ba7cd7eb80654.mp4 0c84c718b95518d4b0381c43bf767aa1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/49189ef3b7178dd5e81f6200cf2c44c9.pdf 2dec4e5aa71b2d3d994e5189bd709663 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project William Donner (00:24:12) (00:26) Pre-Service Born Leelanau Co., MI, on a farm 2 younger bros Grad Traverse City HS Worked MI Milk producer association (45 years) as product tester (1:10) Service Drafted at 23, during Korean War, didn't want go. Summer 1951 at Camp Cook April left San Francisco for Japan At Camp Cook Sept. - April Medical training, by merit of former profession, link dubious,; worked KP and Guard duty as well In Korea, worked 4 miles behind lines as medical evac Arrived in Tokyo, moved to Honshu, remarks on Khoi pond (not his word) Helped as helo evac. Fever from rat bites, mortality of 6%, sent live sample to lab. Divisional CO trying to secure promotion, causing causalities Often set up near rivers GI's naked in river. Suffered severe dysentery Venereal disease among GI's required circumcision, penicillin shoots. Instance of cabin, mother and daughter provided sexual services to GI's (16:15) Impressions of Seoul, Japan and US Army Converted to Catholicism in Japan Locals asked for religious medals Friendly fire incident destroyed plane Returned home via Japan � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Donner, William (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Donner, William Description An account of the resource William Donner is a native of Northern Michigan. Donner worked in agriculture until the Korean War, at which time he entered the United States Army and was trained in medical evacuation. He describes his experiences as a GI on the Korean peninsula and the Japanese home islands. Donner discusses venereal disease and interactions with the natives. Donner converted to Catholicism while in Korea. He returned to agriculture after release from sevice. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-08-16 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DonnerW Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7403efbd87a4b34333b57ec839d8f314.pdf 9349c87cd2e37e0c1da8999c3eb3ceff PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam War James Donnelly? 13:53 Introduction (00:22)    James was originally from Saginaw, Michigan. When he received his draft notice, he had just come home from his 2nd shift job and his mother was crying and she had the letter in her hand. She handed it to him and when he opened it and read it he learned that he was being drafted. He was 19 years old. He had only been out of high school about nine months. (02:23) James was drafted into the United States Army. Military Service (02:30)               It was hard to adapt to military life because he had never been away from home. He felt lost in basic training and he needed to find someone who knew the ropes. James felt that way for a few months until he was able to acclimatize himself to army life. Basic training consisted of physical exercise and lots of classes. Some of the training was field exercises at [Camp Willis], they had land navigation classes that were tested in the field. This was in San Antonio, Texas. (04:50) In Vietnam, the climate is hot and humid and very tropical. While there, James did not go out in the field, but instead served as a medic within the compound that he was stationed. When he first went into the service, he took initial tests and he qualified for medical training. (06:12) He was able to keep in touch with his family while gone, using a MARS (Military Auxiliary Radio System). This would relay calls to Hawaii and then on to your home state. This was not done often because it was very expensive for the people receiving the call. James spent fourteen months in country, and was there in 1970 and celebrated Thanksgiving and Christmas in Vietnam. At that time in Vietnam it was towards the end of the war and the troops were beginning to be brought home. (08:42) James was sent home in November 1971. When he arrived back home, he never felt like he was being treated poorly like many other Vietnam vets were. (10:33) James thinks that it was happening, but he just did not realize it. He was given a lot of help from the Unemployment Agency and he was able to pick the job of his choice. Adjusting back to life in the states was not too hard for him, but home life was different because he was more independent and knew what he wanted to do. Almost immediately after being home, he lost touch with the men he served with. (12:34) � While in the military, James learned to appreciate his family more, especially his parents. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Donnelly, James Francis (Interview outline), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Donnelly, James Description An account of the resource James was drafted into the United States Army in 1970 and spent fourteen months in Vietnam as a medic. He was able to stay on his base and never went into the field. He returned home in November 1971. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Michaud, JJ (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-03-28 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DonnellyJ1500V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fddee7221b89d7a379b24baf8aef4817.pdf b4352ab2dfb12b7d0ab189a2a3bf8b1d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Operation Desert Storm Daniel Donnelly Total Time – (18:36) Background     Before serving in the military, he was in high school (00:21) He enlisted into the Navy He chose to be in the Navy o He enlisted with a friend (00:38) When he enlisted he was on the Navy Enlistment Buddy Program o It is affiliated with Major League Baseball teams  They took their oath at a Detroit Tigers game (01:15) Enlistment/Active Duty – (01:24)          Once the baseball game was done they got on a bus and traveled to Great Lakes, Illinois for boot camp (01:29) He was in submarine service in the Navy o He had departed for his deployment three days before Operation Desert Storm started (01:58) o He was out at sea when Operation Desert Storm ended He never saw any active combat (02:35) He served as an electrician and worked with nuclear propulsion operations (03:06) o He would deal with all electrical distribution on the submarine o He also assisted to start up and shut down nuclear plants When he would go on patrol, there were “fitness tests” for the submarines o There were also emergency blows that were tested for getting to the surface (04:34) He never had fear of claustrophobia aboard the submarines (05:26) While on the submarines, all of the food was non-perishable The soldiers on board the submarines would play cards or watch movies to pass the time (06:30) He had very limited contact with his friends and family o They were able to maintain contact through E-grams that had a limit of 150 letters (07:08) o They were allowed twelve on each patrol �    Holidays were never celebrated very often o Celebrations were generally through the patrols (08:13)  They would sometimes have gambling nights when they were halfway through their patrol He learned discipline and an ability to rely on others (08:46) Operation Desert Storm was not a significant even for his unit (09:36) o The soldiers day-to-day life changed very little He was able to make good friends on the submarine but does not stay in contact with many of them After the Service – (11:06)            After he left the service he went back to school (11:16) o He went to Grand Rapids Community College and received his Associate’s Degree o He was then accepted to the University of Michigan where he received his Bachelor’s Degree in chemical engineering (11:22) He went on to work at the Amway Corporation His experience during the service helped motivate him and get him “on a better track” (11:58) He believes the U.S. involvement in the War on Terror is important to secure American freedom He received the Navy Achievement Award for his service on the submarine (13:15) o He was in charge of 8-9 people He also received the Sea Service Ribbon for simply going out to sea (13:42) He received the Humanitarian Service Medal as well The Chief of the Watch was the highest position he could achieve on the submarine (14:43) o The Chief of the Watch was the officer in charge of many operations inside the submarine o He achieved this role but only stood for one watch (16:04)  It was a voluntary position He was on a Ballistic Missile Submarine (16:21) o In war-time situation there job was to remain undetected until they needed to use their weapons After the military he served in the National Guard o It was all during peace time (17:15) o He once did a maintenance operation in Germany He achieved an E-6 ranking � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Donnelly, Daniel (Interview outline), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Donnelly, Daniel Description An account of the resource Daniel Donnelly was a student in high school before he decided to enlist into the Navy under the Navy Enlistment Buddy Program. After taking his oath at a Detroit Tigers game, Daniel was sent to Great Lakes, Illinois for basic training. He departed for his deployment three days before Operation Desert Storm began and returned five days after it had ended. Daniel never saw active combat but served as an electrician and worked with nuclear propulsion operations aboard a Ballistic Missile Submarine. After the service, Daniel received his Associate's Degree from Grand Rapids Community College and a Bachelor's Degree in Chemical Engineering from the University of Michigan. After school he began working at Amway Corporation where he remains an employee. Daniel believes his experience helped motivate him and get him on the right track in life. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Seper, Paul (Interviewer) Seper, Laurie (Interviewer) Ruhlman, Ben (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-11-09 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DonnellyD1358V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4fb9b2b550b25157f88cb3c7032a8cb3.mp4 adb64cc241349e77cd9bcf018ca24522 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b1fe04c7c1807c8a4269ec4acd6438c5.pdf 078d483afff26e00983f7b4a9a1c26ab PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Vietnam War James Doctor Interview Total Time: 1:49:30 Background  (00:12) Born in Muskegon, Michigan, in 1947  (00:27) Dad worked at Continental Motors, mom was a housewife but also worked for a floral designer  (1:00) Had two older brothers; one was involved the Korean War  (1:50) Graduated from high school in 1966  (2:30) Knew his college grades would get him drafted, so he decided to enlist o Enlisted in the first part of 1969 o June 29th was when he officially went into the service  (3:07) Didn’t know a lot about the Vietnam conflict before enlisting  (3:23) In 1965 started working at Meijer Incorporated and worked there for 44 years  (3:35) Wanted to be a police officer; attempted to get into police departments when he knew he would be drafted soon o Was not accepted initially o But got a letter telling him he was accepted after he was already in Vietnam Training  (4:30) Basic training at Ft. Knox  (4:48) Very hot while training  (5:07) Got leaves 3-4 weeks into training  (5:20) A lot of drilling, practice on gunnery, bayonet training  (6:08) A lot of emphasis on discipline; did pushups if one messed up o Mr. Doctor in particular had some problems staying in step while marching �o Had to run around the outside of the company if this happened  (6:55) Made up his mind going in that he was going to do the best he possibly could, so therefore not so hard to adjust with this attitude  (7:36) Most of the guys training with him did the best they could, some did the minimum, and there were a few that refused to conform o One committed suicide o One went AWOL  (8:22) A few of the trainees from Michigan, but mostly from all over the US  (8:45) This was the first time he associated with people who had southern accents, and this made it a bit hard to understand some guys  (9:08) 21 years old when he went in the service, older than most of the guys there, considered the “old guy”  (9:23) Basic training was 8 weeks  (9:29) Ft. Lee, Virginia, got assigned to be a small arms repair specialist o Got this assignment through military testing; had 3 choices, this was his last one, but he said it worked out  (10:15) Worked on everything from a 45 caliber pistol to a rifle o Took them apart, put them back together o He thought it was interesting; always liked mechanical stuff o Graduated w/Honors o Training lasted 8 weeks  (11:57) 30 day leave  (12:09) December 7th, flew out to Ft. Ord, California o Stayed for a few days o Flew on a commercial flight to Vietnam  (12:38) Traveled in uniform  (13:20) He said in Virginia people were supportive of the military, but warned about protesters in California, told to be careful if they went off base  (14:05) Plane kept having mechanical problems �o Landed in Hawaii, Guam, Philippines before Vietnam Vietnam  (14:48) Mr. Doctor says he’ll never forget when they opened the door of the plane, there was a horrid smell o A guy from the Air Force warned them about what to do if their plane was attacked o (15:42) Got used to the horrid smell after a week  (15:49) Either landed in Bien Hoa or Long Binh  (16:10) Went to FTA (First Team Academy. 1st Cavalry Division training for service in Vietnam) o Basic jungle training o Fired more weapons; some of which he was already familiar with o Helped them get used to the country o Pamphlets with information about customs, etc o Instructors were those who had been in the jungle already o Felt that most of the information they taught them was helpful o Had to take repelling class out of a tower  (18:25) When he got to FTA, he was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 30th Field Artillery Regiment, 1st Cavalry Division  (18:44) Went to Phuoc Vinh o Then assigned to B battery o Helicopter took them to firebase  (19:14) Fire support base was temporary/permanent o Not going to pick it up and move it o Describes the different units there o Including 4 or 5 artillery units o Guns are split up; put on separate fire support bases o He was in the battery’s rear area – about 13 or 14 of them �o Probably a couple thousand of them at the support base o “Tent City”  (21:06) They used to get hit with mortars and 122mm rockets  (21:22) Mentions a ground hugging radar unit with them that set off a siren if they saw something coming  (21:47) When he first got there, they were hit by things a couple times a week o By the time he left, they went over a month without getting attacked  (23:12) Described the attacks when he first got there as harassment o At different ends of the base o One time they hit a bunker in the ammo dump   Hit with a mortar round (24:20) When he got on the base, originally assigned as the small arms repair specialist o A few weeks later, the supply sergeant was gone, and he became a temporary supply sergeant o He ended up being the permanent supply sergeant – promoted to E5 sergeant o He arrived as an E4  (26:07) For this job, he got up early and ate breakfast o Did paperwork – had to move around sometimes to get what he needed  (27:48) Two people in the battery that sign for everything: battery commander and supply sergeant o Supply sergeant signs stuff out o Trucks and mechanical stuff to motor sergeant o They signed it out, made sure it was accounted for o Anything they needed, he assigned it to them or ordered it for them o He made sure everyone had what they were supposed to have  (29:03) A weapons inspection was also required o Mr. Doctor made sure the serial number on the gun was correct – if it wasn’t, they tried finding out who had the weapon and exchange around � (29:42) The biggest hassle was that someone would accidentally grab someone else’s M16 o A lot of paperwork involved  (30:23) Supply sergeants have to be good at trading/bartering  (31:35) Tried to get everyone what they needed; tried to not go into the jungle that often  (32:10) The only time stuff would come up missing was when they did tactical moves o When they decide they didn’t need gun support in a certain area because infantry unit was moving from one place to another o Combat move – there is a way in the military in a combat move where you can write stuff off o It happened because some things were a hassle to move  (33:42) Very little contact with Vietnamese nationals o They (civilian workers) were allowed in after security check at 8 in the morning, had to be off base by 9; then gates were closed  (34:07) Mr. Doctor employed some Montagnard people o Hired them to do some work that the Americans didn’t like to do o This included filling sandbags o They were paid 300 piasters a day o He gave them C-ration meals also o 300 piasters = 1 US dollar o They were very loyal to US troops o Lived in village – village elders were in charge where they came from o Talks about how they chew betel nut; blackened their teeth o Good with crossbows  (37:08) Says the Vietnamese treated the montagnard people like US citizens treated blacks in the 30’s and 40’s o They were more trustworthy than regular Vietnamese  (37:42) There was a Vietnamese group that opened a pizza stand � (37:55) They went to the village and bought charcoal, occasionally bought steaks  (38:12) There was a small laundry near them also o Didn’t necessarily clean their clothes properly; not everything came back  (38:40) Laundry in Song Be; a man named Mr. Loc did their laundry very well o Invited them into his house o Kids cleaned their weapons outside o They always asked him whether or not it was going to be a good night to sleep  (40:40) Says he thinks a lot of the citizens knew what was going on but were afraid of the consequences if they said too much  (41:00) There were local bars, brothels o Never got involved with prostitutes, but some people in the rear area did  (42:40) Never got involved with marijuana; always wanted to be alert  (43:00) Had “beer people” and “bong people” – Mr. Doctor was one of the “beer people”  (43:40) Talks about opening tent doors and getting hit with a giant smoke cloud from marijuana  (44:20) Could get beer for $2.45 a case o One of his jobs when he went to Long Binh or Bien Hoa was to get beer  (46:03) Drug use happened mostly on off-duty hours  (47:50) Mentions that he has facebook communications with some of the captains he worked for o Always had good relationships with them  (50:05) In the rear area there weren’t really any officers  (51:08) Supply sergeant (Mr. Doctor’s job) works for battery commander o Anyone other than the battery commander cannot tell the supply sergeant to issue any military equipment w/out the battery commander’s authorization o The 2nd Lieutenant came in, he was issuing him uniform, boots, M16 o The Lieutenant asked for a .45, Mr. Doctor could not issue him one �o The lieutenant asked who was allowed to have them, which was awkward, since the supply sergeant could have one while the lieutenant could not o The Lieutenant asked for his .45 and was very persistent o He even went to another sergeant to ask for the .45 o He ended up being a forward observer  (55:25) There was a lieutenant he worked with that wanted him to come out and visit his family after the war was over  (55:57) Helicopters would take Mr. Doctor out to different bases o Made sure the guys were getting all the supplies they were supposed to be getting o Talks about this one guy who always messed up his gun o Mr. Doctor gave him a lesson on how to do it properly – disassemble & reassemble o (56:55) Flew around on a Chinook, and some Hueys, also rode in a Loach o (57:46) They once flew back in a Chinook that had rotor problems  (1:00:06) Mentions fling on a Caribou, a relatively small transport plane. As they were coming back, the crew chief instructed them to wear seatbelts because they had lost an engine o (1:00:50) Remembers seeing fire trucks near the landing strip  (1:01:41) Says the scariest thing for him was either on the back of a 123 or 130 o Sitting on the back jumpseat, as they were bringing up the ramp, had his feet dangling o Caught the tip of his boot in the ramp o He yelled “stop!” and the ramp was stopped, and the worst thing that happened was the tip of his boot crunched o From then on he crossed his feet while sitting in an aircraft  (1:02:49) On the ground, the closest he got to being hit was when he first got there, with rockets and mortars going off o The rockets were 122’s �o Done sporadically  (1:04:20) Talks about a piece of a 122 rocket that he spray painted black and used as a paper weight  (1:04:45) He was not allowed to take it home because it was war material  (1:05:11) Talks about a time where he almost could have gotten a purple heart o Had to go out in the morning with troops, take claymore detonators out because the helicopters could accidentally set them off o Went out with troops to make sure someone didn’t put them back in o One morning they were doing this, and “Charlie” (Viet Cong or North Vietnamese) decided to drop mortars on the base o (1:06:15) Mr. Doctor accidentally cut himself with razor wire while running back o Went to a medic to have it stitched up and had a tetanus shot o Someone wanted him to fill out paperwork for a Purple Heart o He didn’t feel right about it  (1:08:06) Sometimes helped out with medical unit o Helped unload helicopters, moved casualties and injured people into hospitals o (1:09:00) Talked about white phosphorous  (1:10:00) Flew out to one of the gun platoons in Song Be, caught a ride o Took longer than he thought it should take o They landed in an area they weren’t familiar with o The crew chief says to him, “you were never here”- they were in Cambodia o Many enemy supplies captured and destroyed in Cambodia o After this, mortar attacks on their base reduced drastically  (1:11:56) He said he didn’t know a lot about the war as a bigger picture other than what he was involved in o In terms of Vietnam as a whole, he wasn’t sure where he was o Didn’t see a full map of the country until much later  (1:13:14) They started to pull out units when he was over there o Transfers in from different units � (1:13:53) Spent a little over 10 months in Vietnam Going Home  (1:14:30) Within two days of getting orders to leave, he was back home in the USA o Was still wearing fatigues when he got home  (1:15:26) Brought back a NVA bush knife o Used it for splitting wood o Made in England o Not sure how it got to Vietnam  (1:16:50) Wanted to go to Australia while in Vietnam, but never took R&R because he left early because his dad needed surgery; that’s when he went home  (1:18:48) Got back to the states in the end of October of 1970  (1:19:00) Still in the military at this point, but got leave to go see his dad  (1:19:30) Assigned to Ft. Sheridan, Illinois o Said they had no real use for him and knew he would get out of the service early o Was an NCO at a transit holding detachment o Here, he processed people in who had gone AWOL, or deserted, after they turned themselves in to MP’s o He was one of the ones who would provide them with meals, uniforms, place to sleep o The company commander was also getting out of the service o Very relaxed o (1:20:47) He and the other NCO’s worked for 24 hrs on, 48 hours off o (1:21:33) they worked it out to stay there for 48 hrs – which meant they got 96 hrs off o The company commander allowed it o Went to Michigan on his off time o Said this wasn’t smart because he often didn’t sleep �o (1:23:00) Said there was an Italian place next to Ft. Sheridan that brought them food o (1:23:17) A guy that went AWOL came in who didn’t like NCO’s or taking instructions  The guy was huge  Watching a movie and it went past the time lights went off, let him watch it  Didn’t want to risk running into trouble with him o (1:25:08) He asked the guy if he wanted anything from the Italian restaurant  There was never any problems with him  (1:25:58) Most of the time he got along with everyone  (1:26:12) When in Ft. Lee, after graduating w/Honors and got automatic promotion, rank allowed him to march troops back and forth to classes o He wasn’t that much into it o A black soldier didn’t take it seriously o Filed a complaint when Mr. Doctor told him to stay in step o Said he called him a bad name o (1:28:38) Two other black soldiers testified for Mr. Doctor o The other guy got in trouble and didn’t graduate for filing a false complaint  (1:31:45) In the combat area, he thinks most of the people looked past prejudices  (1:32:14) Talked about a black guy that kept messing up wherever he went, he was into “black power,” prejudiced o Threw a grenade somewhere, injured people o A sergeant went after him with a machine gun o There was talk/controversy about it  (1:35:22) They tried to get Mr. Doctor to reenlist a couple times  (1:37:45) After he finished at Ft. Sheridan, Meijer hired him back under the GI Reemployment Bill o Retired 44 years later �o Retired in 2009  (1:38:15) He said the service taught him to be more mature, responsible, how to deal with money o Wouldn’t have been his first choice, but he believes the service taught him a lot  (1:39:23) Regrets the exposure to the Agent Orange o Nobody knew anything about it then o Had a couple friends who died from it  (1:40:31) Has some friends who were in the Korean War that call him and other Vietnam vets “Vietnam Crybabies,” for blaming diabetes, etc on Agent Orange o VA says it really was from Agent Orange  (1:41:19) Tells Korean Vets that if the Vietnam Memorial hadn’t been built, theirs wouldn’t have been built  (1:42:02) Says it’s a shame that it took our country so long to build a memorial (including for WW2 vets), but they started it  (1:42:28) At this time, the Vietnam vets were the highest educated group that had been in the military  (1:42:40) Says drug use wasn’t that bad compared to the amount of people o During the other wars, it wasn’t covered by the media so that’s why it didn’t seem as bad  (1:43:21) Mr. Doctor’s dad wanted him to join the VFW o He did o He didn’t get what he considered to be a great welcome o They acted like it wasn’t a real war, not great reception o For 6 or 7 years, paid his dues, but never went again  (1:44:45) Transferred to a different VFW  (1:44:58) Family members didn’t talk a lot about it  (1:46:56) Thought about doing the interview so future generations can know about it � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Doctor, James (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Doctor, James Description An account of the resource James Doctor is from Muskegon, Michigan. He enlisted in the Army in 1969 to avoid being drafted. He received his basic training at Ft. Knox, and AIT at Ft. Lee; where he was assigned to be a small arms repair specialist. Here, he graduated with Honors. Once he got to Vietnam he was assigned to B Battery, 1/30 Field Artillery, 1st Cavalry Division, and became its supply sergeant. He was based in his battery's rear area, but made regular flights out to the battery's forward positions, including one in Cambodia, as well as to the Saigon area to get supplies. Once he returned home, he worked at Ft. Sheridan as an NCO at a transit holding detachment until he was discharged. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-07-07 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DoctorJ1140V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aaa98df801f9f7fccb4d1974b292cf11.mp4 092698976fd5caab3b5f483536ec6cd1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e361b9d30d00761a4e86afd1ad54da54.pdf 880cb3a0b5a5954ebd957ab27cdafc80 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Edward Dochod 53:46 Introduction (00:18) We’re talking today with Mr. Edward Dochod of Grand Rapids, Michigan, and the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Now, Mr. Dochod, can you start with some background on yourself, and to begin with where and when were you born? Grand Rapids, Michigan. January 1st, 1919. Very good, now did you grow up in Grand Rapids? Yes I did. All right, and did you finish high school? No, I went through 11th grade. Okay, and then, why did you leave school then? Well, I wanted to go to work. Now, what did your family do for a living when you were a kid? My dad was in furniture, all his life. And I had a couple of brothers that were caretakers of bowling alleys, and I had a sister, she did babysitting. Did your dad keep his job during the depression? No, he was laid off during the depression. But he always found an odd job to pick up a few bucks and that. When you went to work what kind of job did you get? Oh, I got in a factory the first time, at the Grand Rapids Plating Company. Then I got in with the Hoover Vacuum Cleaning machine outfit and then I went to McEnerny Spring and Wire, Dowler-Jarvis, American Seating, then I started maintenance work at one catholic school. Then I ended my maintenance work at Saint Ann‟s Home on Leonard Street. I worked there twenty years; I retired from there last November twenty five years ago. �All right, so that’s your full career. Now, before you went into the Army, what jobs were you in then, the very first jobs? (2:19) That was the last one I worked at, McEnerny's Spring and Wire, then I went into service. Do you remember hearing about Pearl Harbor? No, I just remember what I read in the papers, the bombing of Pearl Harbor and that. After that happened, did you think about enlisting? No, I didn‟t think of enlisting. Were you married at that time? Yes I was. Did you have any children yet, or on the way? Yes, I had three of them. Ok, so you had things to do at home. Oh yeah. When did you receive your draft notice? Oh, it was sometime in January of 42‟. After you got the draft notice, what did you do? I kept working at McEnerny‟s until about three weeks, then I said that‟s enough, I‟m taking a vacation before I go into the Army. And then where did you go first for the Army? Fort Custer, Michigan. Now was that just processing there? That was just first entry, then I went to South Carolina, Fort Jackson. I had my basic training there. From there I went to Fort Devens, Massachusetts and I was assigned to the division and that, to the 45th Division. (4:27) Ok, let’s back up a little bit to Fort Jackson, how did they get you from Fort Custer to Fort Jackson? �They took me down there by bus. A bus? All the way from Michigan to South Carolina? Yeah So, not a train? Oh yeah, we went on a train too. Had you made long train trips before that? No. Had you been very far outside Michigan before that? Well, I was the furthest I was away from Michigan was at that camp in North Carolina. So, what was basic training like? Basic training was all infantry, different guns and weapons that we used in the infantry and that. Rifle range, pistol range, bayonet course, and how to give emergency first aid into battle, when you‟re in battle if you can‟t get in touch with the aid. Did they have a lot of emphasis on discipline? Oh yeah. How easy was it for you to adjust to life in the Army? (6:04) It took quite a while after I got through with basic training. There was people with the training academy that thought they were generals, but when we got through with basic training, we seen some of those corporals and that and you can kiss my butt now, I‟m done with you guys. They acted like generals, but that was their job. Now, when you were at Fort Jackson, do you know where the other men were from, the men you were training with? Oh, I met a lot of men from all over the country; from many different states. And did you ever get off the base at Fort Jackson, did you go any place else? Oh went out to town, when we had a weekend pass. And then, did you notice the racial segregation there? �Did I what? Well, you know, that was the south and the south was segregated in those days. Did you notice that? Well, I noticed it some, yeah. And did you know it was going to be like that? Yes and No. Because it’s a little different from how they did things here. Oh, I guess so. How long was basic training? Thirty two weeks. So, for over half a year? Now it‟s cut down to practically, so many weeks. Right, two or three months. So your in Fort Jackson for a long time, and then after that? After our basic training at Fort Jackson, we went to Fort Devens. So, some of your training was at Fort Devens, it wasn’t just at Fort Jackson, ok. When you’re at Fort Devens, is that near Boston? (8:08) Boston, yeah. So did you get a little bit more time to go into town? Oh yeah, we got our weekend passes and that to go to town. And now and then we would get a furlough to go home for a week and come back. So you got to see your family before you went overseas. Yeah. What Division were you a part of? �I was always with the 45th Division, then when I went to the discharge camps, I was assigned with the 103rd Division, because that division was going home; Being deported back to the United States, ahead of the 45th Division. They took the high pertinent first. And you had been in so early, and you had been a combat infantryman all that time, you had a lot of points. The 45th Division, was that a National Guard Division? That‟s an old National Guard unit from Fort Sill, Oklahoma. That’s what I thought. My father-in-law was in that, a little later. So you had a bunch of older guys who were guardsmen or men who had been in the unit already? Oh yeah, a lot of the older men, they got discharged on account of their age. So, most of the Division was sort of new men who were added to it? Well, mostly new men. So, there were some guys who were actually from Oklahoma and then you had all the extra guys from everywhere else. Yeah, that‟s true. Alright, now when did you ship out? Ship out, it was July 10, 1943. And what kind of ship did they put you on? (10:12) Well, it was a transfer from a civilian ship to a military boat, I can‟t think of the name of the ship. But when you crossed the Atlantic, were you on the civilian ship or on the military? No, we were on the military. And, about how many men do you think were on the boat with you? Well, a whole division, they were big boats. So, several thousand men probably. They were transferred from civilian ships into military boats. So, converted ocean liners. �Yeah. Ok, those could hold thousands of men, all right. Did you sail in a convoy? Yeah, in a convoy. And, what was the weather like when you went across? Oh, pretty rough before the invasion. We thought they were going to call the invasion off, but we went through it. Now, the invasion then was the Sicily landings in July of 43’ and Salerno is in September. When you crossed the Atlantic, what was the first stop you made? First stop we made was Sicily. You didn’t stop in North Africa first? Yeah, we stopped at first in North Africa for a few days. Then from there we had our combat assignments and went for the invasion of Sicily. Now when you went across, were there already Americans ashore when you landed in Sicily? No. So you were making a beach landing? (12:04) We were making all beach landings. Can you describe a little bit what that’s like? They load you up on… It was hell, we were being bombed and strafed and machine gun fire, they had barbed wire entanglements, we had to put them bangalore torpedoes to blow them barbed wire entanglements out of the way so we could get on land. Ok, now how much training did you have for a beach invasion, had you ever practiced one before? No. Did they put you in the small landing craft to go up to the beach? Oh yeah, they put them in landing invasion boats, they hit the shore and when you hit the shore they opened that flap door and there you went. �How did you get in the landing boat? You're in a bigger transport ship, how do you get in the landing craft? We went down on cargo nets, they had a big rope cargo net on the side of the ship and we went down like monkeys into the invasion boats. How much gear did you carry when you made that landing? We had all our equipment, we had packs on our back and our ammunition and everything, we were packed down like a camel. Did guys have problems getting into the landing boat? Oh no, a lot of the landing boats were shot and sunk from bombs and that, and we kept going through that fire and we were getting artillery fire from the beach. And do you know which beach you landed at or what town you were near? (14:09) No, I don‟t know. They had names for the beaches but I don‟t remember their names. Ok, well we can look that up, and when we put it on the internet we’ll note all that. So, you land then on shore and you use bangalore torpedoes to blow through the wire, and once you got through the wire, then what? Then we moved forward, to go after one town after another town. Right near the beach, once you got through the wire were there a lot of Germans or did they get away? Oh, I guess so. The shore was full of Germans protecting their shoreline, we had machine gun fire, artillery fire, mortar fire, bomb fire, strafing of enemy planes. So how did you get rid of them? Well, our outfits did their best of shooting them out of the sky, and us infantryman did the best of killing them all I mean. So then you break through the beach defenses then, and were the Germans counterattacking in those first days? Oh, they tried a counterattack, but we always knocked off the counterattack. Then we went forward and took our objective and that. Right, so when they counterattacked you, did they have tanks? Oh yeah, they had everything but the kitchen sink. �Now, your infantry unit, what could you do about a German tank? Well, we did the best we could. Did you get air support or naval guns? Oh yeah, we had naval support and air support, but then the enemy was shooting at them and that too, you know. Now, were you fighting pretty constantly then in Sicily, or did you get any breaks? No, we just kept on moving. One objective after the other. No much stopping either or no relief, you just kept going. No stopping and helping your wounded buddy, just move, move. What kind of casualties was your company taking? (16:42) From machine gun fire and air strafing from the air force and that, the bombing and mortar shells, everything but the kitchen sink. I‟m surprised we didn‟t get the sink thrown at us. Now, out of your original platoon or your company, how many of the men were still with you at the end of that campaign? Oh, not very many. We got a lot of replacements. Were you just a rifleman that whole time? Yup. Did you become a squad leader or anything like that? No, towards the end I was in a squad but I was like second in command of each squad I mean. So, you still had some sergeants and things like that? Oh yeah. As your moving across Sicily, what do you remember about the country, what sort of land was it? Oh, it was mostly blown up country, but some of the little cities we passed through were really nice. The villagers would go out to see that they were liberated from the Germans and they waved the American flags you know. They come out into the street and brought us flowers, and girls coming out to us, they were so glad to see us. Alright, did you go all the way up to the tip of Sicily? (18:38) �After each objective, we got, sort of, a few days of rest, then we trained for more goings on forward what our objective would be. Were a lot of the Germans in caves or in the sides of mountains? Oh yeah, they had their dug outs and everything hidden, all well camouflaged, or in buildings and that, we were a perfect target for them. Does an infantry company carry any sort of heavier weapons, did you have bazookas or flame throwers? We had heavy field artillery behind us, we had tank support, air support, but if the weather was bad, we didn‟t get much air support. But when it cleared up, here they came. And we saw big bombers in the air and we said, “Hey, go give em‟ hell and that”. Alright, so now, about how long do you think the campaign in Sicily was? Was it about a month or a month and a half? Oh, all of that. Do you get much of a break before you land in Italy? (20:10) Not much, we got maybe a couple of days, and back up the front. So now you have to make another landing. We get through with one, then we practiced for more amphibious landings. Dry runs we called them. So now you’re getting training after you’ve already done it once. Yeah. Where did you land in Italy? We landed in near Naples. Now, the area where you landed, was there a lot of opposition there? Not too much. Salerno was bad but Naples was not as bad. Anzio Beach was the worst. �Oh yeah, and that’s later. So, you land near Naples, so this time you’re not being shot at a lot, were there still some Germans around? Still some Germans around. And then, after you landed, then what did you do? We kept on moving forward, we kept on moving forward for so many days, then you would get a couple days off then back again, forward, forward. Ok, now eventually those movements kind of stall don’t they? You get stuck someplace? Oh yeah, we got held back quite a few times. Was that at Cassino or in that area? Cassino was really a bad place; we couldn‟t get to that monastery on the mountain there. The Germans were just like in a lighthouse, looking down our rifle barrels. Did your division fight at Cassino or in a different place in the line? After we got, they were sent to the Pacific after we were sent home. That’s much later. What we’re doing here is following your division through its campaign. Now, you’re getting in to the end of 1943, and the Germans are holding the Cassino line, their going to hold that all winter, and we don’t really move, ok, were you fighting along that line for a while? (22:46) Oh yeah. And physically, can you describe the conditions there? It was hell on earth. We were wondering if we were ever going to get out of there alive. But, finally the Air Force came through and our long range artillery got through ok, and blasted the hell out of that monastery. That will come later after the Anzio invasion. What was the weather like at the end of 43’? Miserable. Rain, rain, rain. We dug our foxholes and like laying a swimming pool, I mean. Did you cross the rivers to attack, like that Volturno? Oh yeah, we had to go in boats across the Volturno and that, oh yeah. What kind of boat would you use? �We used them, we had a name for them boats and that. Were they metal boats that you put together or rubber rafts or what were they? It was sort of a boat put together, I mean. And the Remagen Bridge was really a tough battle. Again, that’s later. Before we knocked it out. You mentioned at a certain point your division gets pulled out of the Cassino front, because you go to Anzio. Yeah. Now, was your division going into Anzio right at the start? Were you part of the invasion? (24:36) We were the main force of the invasion, when we landed in Anzio. There was other divisions on our flanks, but we were the main division. Right, one corps landed, the 3rd Division, 36th Division and you guys. Ok, and you're right in the middle. Can you describe the Anzio landing, what was that like? Oh, that was, we were stuck on the beach there for three days, because the Air Force couldn‟t get through and that. Then after that, we had many, many casualties, we thought we were going to get blown off that landing, but after three days, our Air Force got through and opened up some room for us to go forward and that. Dead, laying dead all over the place. When you first landed, like on the very first day, were there a lot of Germans yet? I don‟t know where all them Germans came from, but that beachhead was full of Germans. Cause some of the reports say there weren’t too many there right away, but then they all came and attacked you. Well yeah. Alright, you’re stuck, you get a little bit more room, and then basically do you just dig in and hang on, or are you attacking a lot or defending? We were defending then we attack. Defending then we attack. Get reorganized, push again. There were also some British forces there; did you see much of them? (26:29) Oh yeah, we had some British forces with us and that too. �And did you see much of them? No, but we, they had funny humor, we met some of them and they joked with us. They were laughing their heads off, us G.I.‟s and we said „what the hell is so funny‟ and that. I think that still happens. Yeah, yeah. And you’re stuck in Anzio for a long time, right, for months before you get out. Was there a point in Anzio where it got easier or at least felt like you were winning? Was there a turning point anywhere? Well, I think they were all good points after we start to move and go and that. We felt that we were starting to win. Now, did you get tank support, did you get armor coming in to help? Oh yeah, and then when we attacked we always had that armor help, and field artillery help, a lot of them wouldn‟t get the right range before the observer could raise the artillery fire, landed on our troops and that. Now, the Germans had some really big guns? Oh, we used to call her the Anzio Express, we could hear that thing, that thing shot for a good forty miles I think. It was a big railroad gun. And when they knocked it out we come by there and theirs your Anzio Express over there all blown to hell and that. Did that gun mostly fire at the port, or did you get those shells landing on your lines? (28:32) Well, we got them on top of us too. We could hear our big shells, would give us such close support we thought they were going land right on us, but they landed right in front of us. Once you finally break out from Anzio, were there still very many guys left that you trained with or was everybody else a replacement? Well, most of the old timers were gone and we met a lot of new replacements that come in. Then from Anzio we moved forward until we come to Rome. Well, Rome was an open city, so we relaxed there in Rome, trained for more targets and that, in Italy and that. But then not too long after that, you start preparing for the next invasion? They were there. We thought we knocked them all out, but hell no. �So, there were still more Germans in Italy to fight first. Lot of Germans that surrendered were glad that they surrendered, I mean. So you saw some of the German prisoners in Italy then? Oh yeah. What did they look like to you? They smelled. Were they regular military age? Yeah, just like us. Now, at a certain point then, because in August your division lands in southern France? (30:31) Yeah. How much of a break did you get before you made that landing? We had a couple of weeks. To relieve the pressure off the Normandy landing and you know, we didn‟t meet much force, but the second day we were there, they sent in a bunch of Germans. So they didn’t fight you right on the beach so much, they were in the hills. And you know, we noticed we were barely inside that beach and we seen G.I.‟s having sex with gals already. So the French were very happy to see you. Oh yes. But, pretty soon it’s back to business. Do you remember what town you landed near? It was early morning, but I can‟t remember the name of the towns. You run into some Germans in the interior, but do you move pretty quickly though? Oh yeah, we started reaching our objective a lot more faster, cause they were losing more and more Germans I mean. Did they have as many tanks and aircraft as they had before? �They had just as much stuff as we had, but a lot of it was slowly knocked out, knocked out. And once you knocked them out they couldn’t replace them? They couldn‟t replace them fast enough because their factories were being bombed. And their rail lines too. (32:29) Yeah, that‟s right. So now, do you go into Marseille the big city or did you just go up the valley north, up the Rhone River Valley? No, we went up into the valley and I ended up, where you going get sent back to the states, we went to Marseille. So you did that on the way back, but not on the way in. Yeah, on the way back. As you’re working your way up north into France, was there as much battle damage as there was in Italy? Oh, there was a lot of damage, and a lot of towns were evacuated. We found little kids coming to us, we would give them our k-rations, they were so glad to see us and that you know. And then, did you get stuck or did you slow down eventually? Because you’re going up north, you get up closer to Germany. Oh yeah, we got stuck, slowing down and that. And we liberated the Dachau concentration camp that was just outside Munich, Germany, and our final stop was Munich, Germany. We took control of Munich; we had our military headquarters set in a Munich City Hall To go back before that, go back into France again, you kind of get up into northeast France, and that’s kind of where you’ll be in the fall of 1944. Yeah. Now, were you still trying to clear out those last parts of France then, and before the Battle of the Bulge you’re still in France? I was still in a part of France. Was the German resistance tougher at that point? (34:40) �No, it started weakening. We were feeling, boy maybe the end was coming. Then we reached Rome and that, oh we were so glad, we were in the rest area for quite a while. Then they took us to town to the Rome Opera House where they showed us the American version stage show, “This is the Army”. So, you got some breaks. Beautiful opera house, those ushers wore them stockings with short pants just like in George Washington days. Alright, now, you get into the end of 1944, what was the winter like? The winter 1944-45, was that a cold winter? Oh yeah. Especially when we left Germany, I would have come up to Germany to the Vachies woods and that. That was awful cold country through there, it was hell all the way, I can say. Cause that’s where you have to go through part of the Siegfried line, the German fortifications along their border? (36:19) What? Did the Germans have a lot of fortifications along their border, the Siegfried line? Oh yeah, lots and lots of fortifications. But they were very weak. They had, oh, I forgot those German names of the lines and that. But all their lines got weaker and weaker as we kept advancing and that. Did you cross the Rhine River at Remagen or someplace else? Rhine River. Yeah, where did you cross the Rhine. Was it Remagen or somewhere else? Right near the Remagen bridge. And could you see the bridge when you were crossing? Oh yeah. Did you go over in boats? Yup. Were those the same kind of boats or were they bigger boats? No, same kind of boats and that. �And when you were crossing, were the Germans shooting at you? Oh, still there oh yeah. Now, once you kind of got across the Rhine and your getting into Germany, did the country look different from France or Italy? No, but it was getting more peaceful, I mean the war. Cause it was coming near the end for Germany. Were you capturing a lot of prisoners then? Oh man, they were giving up by the hundreds. They were glad to surrender. Were their some who kept fighting though? Oh yeah. Could you tell the difference between the SS and the regular guys? No, no, no. Yeah, but we could tell they were sort of rookies cause they didn‟t know how to go about it I mean. Where you take the veteran soldier, he knows how to. Were they using a lot of very young soldiers now? Did they have teenage boys? (38:14) They were using the women, everything. Older men, boys, they were running out of people. When you moved through a town in Germany, how did the civilians behave? They were happy to see us. So they were glad it was over? Oh yeah. Their towns all destroyed, I don‟t know where they hid from all that shelling and that, but in front of us, they were glad to see us. But I don‟t know if they really meant to see us or forced to see us. You said you got to Dachau, the concentration camp, now, were the inmates still there? Were the prisoners still there? Oh yeah, they were giving us their dry moldy bread, kissing our dirty combat boots, so glad. There were a couple of Polish prisoners I talked to, and they were so happy to see us, they looked like human skeletons I mean. They used to burn I don‟t know how many thousands of �people a day out of those incinerators. That black smoke used to come out of them smoke stacks and the smell of death was something I‟ll never forget. Now, were the German guards still there or had they gone away? Most of them had gone away. And then you got in and you went into Munich. About how long were you in Munich then? A couple months? (40:29) Yeah, I would say we were there a couple of months, then we went to a rest area and prepared for coming back home. That took quite a while. While you were still in Munich, what duties did you have? What did you do in Munich? Well, there was not so much to do, the war was practically over I mean, and we were glad to see what Munich looks like. We know it was bombed out, and that was good enough for us. And a lot of those German people coming and offered us beer as we marching through you know. Did they have rules about no fraternizing? They‟d knock so many points off you if you were caught fraternizing with the frauleins. Oh yeah, because you had to have 85 points to be discharged and for every infraction you got caught, you got knocked down on those points. So, a good way of making men behave. But there wasn’t a lot of work to do or anything, just kind of spending time there? Because they had the other outfits that came in after the war had ended, like mop up outfits and that you know. So you got actually taken out of your own unit and assigned to another unit to go home? (42:13) Yeah, we were assigned to the 103rd Division. Cause the 45th was being sent to the Pacific because the war wasn‟t over there yet in the Pacific. They sent you back down to Marseille, France, what was the trip home like? Glad and before we hit Boston commonwealth pier, they had boats with orchestras while you listened to the harbor and big bands in the harbor and you know. But when we walked down the gangplank and we kissed ole‟ mother earth, boy good ole‟ USA. What kind of ship were you on this time? Oh, this was a US Frederick [Liese], it was a converted luxury ship into a troop carrier. �So you didn’t have to go in a liberty ship or anything like that? No, no, no. And what was the weather like on the way back? Not too bad, it got stormy there for a while, we were glad that no German submarines were still around you know. Yeah, because you didn’t have to do a convoy anymore. No, no, no. When did you get back to the states? 45‟ August, I think it was in August sometimes of 45‟. Once you landed, what did they do with you? They sent us to an induction center, then they sent us to a camp in Pennsylvania. Then from Pennsylvania, we were waiting to get on our trains that was heading to Michigan. Did they discharge you in Pennsylvania? (44:26) Yeah, I got my discharge in Pennsylvania. Alright, and then, when did you get home? I got home, it was sometimes in October. We got discharged on the 1st of October, and there was sometimes, I think about the 3rd or so of October that I got home. So you had to spend a few weeks in the other camps before you got to go home? No, we went to this one camp, they called it Camp Lucky Strike, that was the camp to go home. That was back in France. Yeah. What kind of reception did you get when you got home? Did your family know you were coming? Oh man, we got such a welcome, like big war heroes and that. Oh the hugs and kisses from people we didn‟t even know you know, American flags waving. �While you were overseas, how much communication did you have with people at home, do they write letters to you? Well, we could write V-letters, and they would get the letter home and it would be in a small photograph. Right, the V-Mail. Yeah the V-Mail. Did they write to you a lot? Oh yeah, we were glad when it was mail call, if we didn‟t no mail we forget we were lost. But a lot of times, while the mail was being brought over they were shot down or bombed out. So did you have some periods where you go a few weeks before you got a letter? How long would it be between letters? (46:32) Oh, quite a while sometimes. Now, you also mentioned, you went to the Rome Opera House, did you ever get to see a USO show or anything like that? We saw Al Jolson, and quite a few other top stars that come visit us with the US, Bob Hope, yeah, it was quite a few USO people. Was that after the war was over? Yeah, yeah. Even at break times when we were in the rest areas the USO would come in there you know, pass the Frances Langford and that, come around and give us kisses and that you know. How would you describe the morale of the company, were the men, you know, in good spirits most of the time? Some of them were, and low spirited, most of them were good spirited I mean. Did you have good leaders? A couple of them, I could have…but most of the leaders were, our company commander got killed in one of the battles, Captain Afly, he was from Colorado, he was the greatest captain. They had a stretcher bearer, who‟s that? that‟s Captain Afly, oh my. What were the bad ones like, what made somebody a bad officer or a bad sergeant? (48:30) �Some of them, came from Officer Training School, we called them 90 day Wonders, they thought they were four star generals. We were all experienced fighters and that; we thought „who the hell is that?‟ 90 day Wonder. The smart ones, did they learn from you? Oh yeah, they learned our ways in a hurry, and they turned out to be pretty good officers. If you think back a little bit on the time that you spend over in Europe, are there other particular events or memories that you have, that you haven’t talked about yet? Oh, when we had that big gathering at Nuremberg, where Hitler started his, his way and that, oh that was a big outside stadium and that, and thousands of soldiers all reviewing the things we went through and that. So, you had a big Army review in Nuremberg, ok, and did you travel around in Germany otherwise, or just stay in Munich? No, we didn‟t do much of that. I remember we used to call General Patton, Blood and Guts. We‟d say, „yeah, his guts and our blood‟. You were in the 7th Army, he’s 3rd Army so he’s not usually your problem. Yeah, they got transferred over to the 3rd Army then. You did work with him for a while. Did that make a difference in terms of how your unit was used? (50:31) Some of them had different methods that we didn‟t like. But who were we to argue about four stars, I mean you know. Shut our mouths or else we‟ll get shoved in a can. Did you have any impression of General Patch? He was the 7th Army commander. Yeah, he was a good leader, General Patch. We all liked him, he was better than ole‟ Blood and Guts. He took care of the men? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Once you went through all of this stuff, what effect do you think this experience had on you, did you learn anything over the course of all those years? Did you change a little? All I said I learned, I‟m glad I‟m still alive, that I made it through ok. And I said, when I ever get home, I had rifles home and pistols, I said I‟m going to get rid of those things. And I sure �did, when I got home. I learned a big lesson out of the war. And that‟s what these war-mongers and that, like today wars going on. So you weren’t very happy when we invaded Iraq then? When we went in to Iraq and places like that, you didn’t like that? No. War is nasty, war is bad and you saw it first hand. Now, were you able to, kind of go home and pick up with your life where you left off? (52:21) We did, we did I mean. It was memories I used to have, nightmares of the war and that, I‟d get up screaming and that in bed and I thought „oh, I‟m just home, I‟m ok‟, scary as hell. Memories that you‟ll never forget. That‟s how I feel about these boys going into war today, why, why, why all this war. Why can‟t the world live in peace. War-mongers, that‟s what I call them, I mean. Always someone trying to capture, and Hitler, he come pretty close. But in the end you guys stopped him, alright; well it makes for a very good story so thank you for taking the time to talk to me today. Well, thank you, a pleasure. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dochod, Edward (Interview transcript and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dochod, Edward Description An account of the resource Edward Dochod was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on January 1, 1919. He grew up in the area and was drafted into the Army in January 1942. He was sent to Fort Custer, Fort Jackson and Fort Devens before being sent on a ship across the Atlantic to North Africa. He took part in the invasion of Sicily, Italy, fought at Cassino and Anzio, and then landed in southern France. Edward and the rest of the 45th Division then fought across France and on into Germany, and liberated the concentration camp, Dachau, on their way to Munich. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-07-26 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DochodE1488V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0fa2a700e3d10d141de05b5f1df97461.mp4 28f4df294cde7efd4bc0464f43cdeab8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/47a5616e69d21c4a6701d2c0590a4656.pdf 227bdcde681ae4306cc1991ca20266a6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Korean War Interviewee Name: James Dingman Length of Interview: 1hr 6mins (36mins.) Pre-Enlistment (00:19) • Childhood (00:22) o Dingman was born in Sparta, Michigan in 1934. (00:25) • Family (00:26) o Dingman’s father was a factory worker while his mother was a homemaker. (00:35) o Growing up, Dingman lived in Boston Square in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He lived here until he got married. (01:25) o Describes his family’s wartime experience during WWII in some detail. (02:07) • Education (02:51) o Attended West Ottawa Hills High in Grand Rapids. Afterwards, he joined the ROTC. (02:58) Enlistment/Basic Training (03:18) • High school ROTC (03:42) o While in the ROTC, he received training army instruction along with the shooting of 22 rifles and learning from the drill sergeants about army marching, drilling, etc. (04:35) o After doing ROTC training for a little while he decided to join the National Guard and pursue a career with them. (04:55) • National Guard (05:26) o When he had joined up, Dingman lied about his age so he could be admitted. He did this while still in high school. His training with the National Guard was similar to that of his ROTC training. (05:50) �• ƒ Briefly discusses what a typical day in the National Guard looked like while still attending high school classes on top of that. (06:54) ƒ Many of the men that he got to know while training had served in World War II. (07:22) ƒ The Guard unit he was a part of was the 126th Reg., a branch of the Michigan Nat. Guard. (08:22) ƒ Joined the National Guard in 1949 but did not graduate high school until 1952. (08:55) Background to the Korean War (09:06) o While he was still undergoing basic training the Korean War broke out. It was about 1950. (09:22) o He mentions that units from the 45th and 46th Infantry Divisions began getting ready to be deployed to Korea. (09:25) When it came time for the Army to decide what units to send their unit but skipped over it; taking the 47th Division, a Marine reserve unit, instead. (10:03) o Dingman shares his thoughts and perceptions of his military career and of the war during this time. (11:10) o Once he had finished high school, he met his wife in 1955 and once 1956 rolled around he had to decide what to do about his career plans. (11:58) o He chose his wife and kids and then to become a police officer. (12:42) o Goes into some detail about what skills and leadership he received. Later, after being promoted to a sergeant and even later as a 1st Lieutenant he used what he learned to teach different. (14:12) Briefly mentions that as a 1st Lieutenant part of his job involved teaching different classes. (15:10) Active Duty (15:10) • Camp Grayling (15:16) o Briefly discusses his experience here in some detail and what a typical day looked like. (15:43) o Spent 12 years in the National Guard, rising to the rank of a first lieutenant. Ended his career because it was conflicting with his police career. (19:47) �o In conjunction with his Guard duties he began a career in law enforcement, of which eventually both jobs became too much for him to handle and thus he dropped the Guard. (20:36) o Also, while with the Guard he took classes and among the things he studied was weapons’ use and explosives. (22:07) o Briefly discusses the training he received in the recruit’s school and the police academy. (22:21) After the Service (22:30) • Career as a police officer (23:20) o Briefly discusses what the crime environment was like in Grand Rapids during the 1950s and 60s. (23:50) o Dingman mentions that most of the crime he encountered was domestic— prostitution, drugs, thievery, and armed robberies. Describes some stories with this. (25:03) o Served on the force for 33 years and during that time downtown Grand Rapids changed dramatically. Briefly describes its change and some of the events in some detail. (26:45) o Briefly describes his encounter with the race riots that went on during the late 1960s. (27:54) o While on the force, Dingman served with a variety of black Americans who described what the general stereotypical perceptions of them was by white officers. (29:21) o Dingman left the force in 1989. (30:18) o Briefly describes some of the jobs he had afterwards. (30:31) o Briefly shares some other Guard stories in some detail. (31:45) • Reflection (34:00) o Dingman briefly shares his thoughts on what he got out of the Guard. Among the things he got out of it was a sense of pride and learning discipline while in the Armed Service. (34:47) �o Interview Ends (36:23) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dingman, James (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dingman, James Description An account of the resource James Dingman is a Korean War veteran who served in the ROTC and then the U.S. National Guard from 1949 to 1961. In this account, Dingman discusses his pre-enlistment, enlistment and training and active duty in the U.S. Dingman also discusses what growing up during WWII was like, and his police career as a whole. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-06-02 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DingmanJ Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/250250e095c89addcb791c52a0c0e644.mp4 281a730799e454cc83e859cc8a29b587 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d4a8dab743d1596a6e2df67cc502e81a.pdf 90d6b03aaf0c76e3eb7d56290dfae7e3 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Newton Dilley (1:38:32) Disc One (1:00:00) (00:17) Background Information • • • • • Newton was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan He is 84 years old and graduated from high school in 1941 Newton Graduated from Yale Law School in 1950 He had attended college at Colgate for three months before Pearl Harbor was hit He enlisted shortly after because he knew he would be drafted soon anyway (4:30) Enlistment • • • • Newton had been attending college in New York and enlisted in Syracuse in December of 1942 and he was able to complete the current semester in school He had bad eyes so he could not join the Navy or the Air Corps He was called to active duty in June of 1943 and went to Fort Custer in Battle Creek, MI They were then sent to Camp Roberts in California (7:10) Camp Roberts • • • • This camp was near a very small town, but it was a nice camp with wooden barracks in the dessert country Newton was with different types of men from all over the country Before enlisting, Newton had not paid much attention to the news of the war The instructors that trained them did not have any combat experience (12:45) Training • • They trained hard every day in areas such as rifle training, field training, marksmanship, compass work, overnight hikes, and mechanics They worked with mortars, machine guns, ammo, and rifles (14:30) Army Specialized Training Program (ASTP) • • Many of the men in this program had some college education The army had been short on engineers, so they were transferred to a different area to train for engineering in ASTP �• • Soon after the Army decided that they did have enough engineers and many of the men were reassigned to infantry divisions all over the country He was transferred to the 12th Armored division in Texas (16:20) Texas • • • • • • In June of 1944 Newton was assigned to the headquarters platoon of the 56th armored infantry battalion of the 12th armored division He trained with the reconnaissance platoon in areas of patrol, guides, kp, and many other odd jobs Newton worked with Jeeps, tanks, half-tracks, and scout cars Many of the new guys were given the worst jobs in the reconnaissance platoon Also people from college were given tough jobs Newton trained until September 5th, 1944 (20:00) Overseas • • • • They were shipped to the New York boarding area where there were three ships They left for Europe on October 1st, 1944 on a converted passenger liner They had to go through the typical “abandon ship training” There were no bad incidents on the trip to Liverpool (21:15) England • They did some more training after they arrived in England • They were living outside in tents and Newton got the flu • It was freezing, wet, and damp • He was in the hospital for one and a half weeks • He asked to be discharged because his division was leaving soon for France and he did not want to have to be a replacement in another division • The men did not have much time off while in England • They received technical advice and were trained to deal with Germans • They trained with bazookas, anti-tank weapons, and with infantry training (26:50) France, November 1944 • Parts of France were completely destroyed, but Paris had been liberated by the time they had arrived • Newton was assigned to General Patch’s 7th army • They had landed in southern France and came up along the eastern border • Newton joined them near Alsace where he had his first combat experience (28:00) Alsace �• • • • • • • The battle was not very difficult or bloody at first They were given easy objectives, which were to clean out the German resistance He was involved in small engagements to gain experience At night he stayed in a foxhole and got frost bite The Germans had better weapons and clothing than the Americans Many US soldiers stole clothing off German bodies, especially during the cold winter months Newton was not on the front line for a very long time (34:20) Artillery Spotting • Newton would be in an outpost with a radio to make sure that the shells were landing in the correct area (35:15) The Frontlines at Herlsheim • Newton was on an outpost when one of their tanks was hit by mortar shell • Altogether his division had 1700 lost, wounded, dead, or captured men in one week • It was difficult to travel because there were canals and rivers all over the countryside • The Germans had the overwhelming fire power of 88s • The 17th infantry division had basically been destroyed in two days • His division lost 29 tanks in one attack (40:20) The German Nordwind Attack • There was not a large German presence near the Rhine • The Germans were contained by US soldiers (42:00) OCS • Newton had signed up for Officer Candidate School earlier in the US, but had forgotten about it while in Europe • In April of 1945 he was shipped to France for OCS and stayed there through June • Newton was allowed one week leave to visit Paris • He remembered the carnage and difficulty in overtaking German equipment and personnel • He saw many burned out tanks and dead horses • It was hard to advance because there were so much abandoned German equipment, which was mostly destroyed from US aircraft (45:00) The Battle of the Bulge • Newton was never involved in the combat of the Bulge, but he as in a supporting position to the West �• He crossed the Rhine through Germany in the Spring of 1945 • They were called the mystery division because they did not want the Germans to know that the 12th had been added to Patton’s force • Newton had once been driving along in a Jeep when he saw a German soldier peeking out of a house • He stopped and went up to the house all by himself to investigate • The house had been full of German soldiers who had been waiting to surrender; many of them were hungry and drunk (51:20) The Last Few Weeks in Germany • The German infantry had been hiding all over the countryside and they lost many US soldiers • Whoever had not gained 60 service points would soon be sent over to fight in the Pacific (53:30) Alsace • The civilians in France were very nice, but the weather was miserable and he had to sleep in a potato bin to keep warm at night • The civilians had been thrilled to be liberated (55:50) Germans • They had once caught a German who had shot and killed a well-liked officer and he was later executed • The civilians were cooperative, especially after they had crossed over the Rhine • He had an overall good experience when dealing with German civilians Disc Two (38:32) (00:15) OCS Transfer • They had been marching along constantly in Germany • The school in Paris was full of soldiers from all nations • The training was in the beautiful countryside, with about 100 men • Roosevelt had died while he was in a replacement depot and he remembered that better than when the Germans surrendered (7:40) Roosevelt • Newton thought he was a great president • Newton is a very liberal person, while his family had been full of Republicans (8:30) The 80th infantry division • Newton finished in OCS in June, about five weeks after VE Day �• • He was assigned to the 80th infantry division in southern Bavaria He worked with the 80th for about 6 months and then went to Czechoslovakia to work with trucking companies, which were made up mostly of black men • Most of the armed services had been segregated then, although black units still had white officers • Newton worked on maintenance, transporting personnel and equipment (14:30) The End of the War • Newton only had 49 points and needed 60 to end his time in the service • He did not get home until September of 1946 • Meanwhile he was part of the armored occupation for over a year • He was later discharged in Camp Cook, Illinois • Newton stayed in the reserves for 7 years until he was married in 1952 • He never got called to duty in Korea (17:00) Back to School • Newton only needed one more year of college to graduate and he was finished in 1947 • He then went on to Yale Law School, which had been full of veterans • His overall experience in the service was positive and he met lots of great people and learned a great deal �Summary of Alva Newton Dilley Army Service Based Upon My Prior Summary of Army Records, Dated 11/19/04 and the Summary of Relevant Dates from the Book "Hellcats - the 12~ Armored Division World War II" by John C. Ferguson, Prepared on 12/1/04 1. I enlisted in the Army Enlisted Reserve Corps (ERC) in Syracuse while at Colgate on Dec. 12, 1942. I was 19 years old. I reported for Active Duty at Battle Creek, Ft. Custer, MI, on June 9, 1943, and served as an enlisted man until June 15, 1945, when I was discharged upon graduation from Officer Candidate School (CClS) in France, in order to receive an appointment as a Second Lieutenant, on June 16, 1945. I was made a First Lieutenant on August 17, 1946, and was relieved from Active Duty on September 24, 1946, at the age of 23. I then continued in the Army Reserve until finally discharged from the Reserves on Dec. 19, 1952. I was 29 years old. Accordingly, I actually served for slightly more than 10 years (Dec., 1942 to Dec., 1952) of which my active service was from June 9, 1943 until September 24, 1946, which would be 3 years and 3 months. 2. After reporting for duty at Ft. Custer on June 9, 1943, I was transferred by train to the Infantry Replacement Training Center at Camp Roberts, California. I have a certificate of the completion of that 17 weeks of training, which gives the dates of June 28 to October 23, 1943. Camp Roberts was located approximately half way between Los Angeles and San Francisco near a small town named Paso Robles. I don't know if the camp still exists. 3. I was then transferred to Santa Rosa, California at the end of October, 1943 for the purpose of being assigned to the Army Specialized Training Program. (ASTP). There is a telegram in the file I sent to Mother and Dad, dated 11/20/43 from Santa Rosa saying I had been accepted in ASTP for a 21 month engineering course. I have an order, dated January 28, 1944, ordering me to New Mexico College of Agricultural & Mining Arts at Las Cruces. I have no further documentation regarding my time in ASTP but the reverse side of my 1\ Separation Qualification Recor~' says that I attended New Mexico A&M for a period of six weeks, at which time the Army disbanded ASTP and all of us were assigned to various Army units throughout the country. These assignments were strictly by chance, with no particular rhyme or reason and I, together with approximately 20 or 30 classmates, was assigned to the 12 t h Armored Division, which was then stationed at Abilene, TX. "...... �4. I arrived in Abilene, in March, 1944, to join the 12 t h Armored Division and was assigned to the Reconnaissance Platoon of Headquarters Company of the 56 t h Armored Infantry Battalion (AlB). The only order I have during my training in Texas is an order dated September 4, 1944 awarding me the Expert Infantry Badge. I was in training, in preparation for going overseas, from March to September, 1944. 5. On September 5, the Division boarded the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railroad at View, Texas and arrived at Camp Shanks, New York, which was a staging area for embarkation. A week later, we were transferred by ferry across the Hudson to the New York Port of Embarkation and the Division boarded three ships for transfer to Europe. I was on the SS Empress of Australia. We arrived October 1, 1944 at Liverpool, England and were transferred from there by train to the Salisbury Plain near Andover and assigned to Tidworth Barracks and lived in a tent camp called Pennings Camp. There is a reference in my medical record to having influenza for which I was hospitalized in England, and I remember requesting that I be discharged from the hospital in order not to miss being with the Division a few days later when it shipped out to France. A few days after November 9, we arrived at LeHavre, France aboard an LST (landing ship, tank) after crossing the channel. We traveled a few miles inland and set up camp near Auffey. On November 29, we were assigned "to the 7 t h Army under General Patch and the Division saw its first action on December 5, 1944, near Kirrberg & Weisslingen, France. On December 10, the Division attacked Rohrbach and captured Bettwiller on December 12. 6. On December 16, 1944, the German Army launched the Battle of the Bulge in the Ardennes Forest in Luxemberg & Belgium. They also launched Operation Nordwind in Alsace and established a bridgehead across the Rhine at Gambsheim on January 5, 1945. January 8, 1945 was the first attack on Herrlisheim. Tanks of the 56 t h AlB were unable to cross the Zorn River and encountered heavy resistance and casualties around the waterworks. Several units of the 56 t h were isolated and chopped up by German tanks and artillery and withdrew to Rohrwiller. On January 16, 1945, a second maj or attack on Herrlisheim began and on the 17 t h the Germans destroyed or captured 29 tanks, plus an additional 12 tanks that were destroyed on the 16 t h • On the 18 t h , most of the 17 t h Armored Infantry Battalion were either killed or captured. On January 19, 1945, the Division was relieved by the 36 t h Infantry Division. The 12 t h Armored lost 1,700 men killed, captured or C'...... �wounded and most of the 43 r d Tank Battalion and the 17 t h AlB were wiped out. 7. I have an order dated January 7, 1945 awarding me the Combat Infantry Badge. On January 22, we were transferred to the 2 nd French Corps of the 1 s t French Army for the purpose of clearing the Colmar Pocket, an 850 square mile salient held by the Germans on the French side of the Rhine south of Strasbourg. The Colmar Pocket was cleared by Feb. 5 and we were then withdrawn and went into reserve. On March 10, 1945, the Division was joined by 12 Platoons of black Infantry, which were assigned to each of the 3 Infantry Battalions as Company D. The Division was transferred to the 3 r d Army under General Patton on March 17, 1945. We moved northwest, crossing into Luxemburg and entered Germany at Trier. We became known as the 'Mystery Division" in an effort to hide the movement of the Division from the Germans. The 56 t h AlB was the first element of the Division to reach the Rhine. Most of the Division crossed the Rhine at Worms and moved toward Wurzburg. We were reassigned to the 7 t h Army on March 24 and were at Wurzburg around April 3. Although I have no documentation, I estimate I left the Division to go to OCS somewhere around Wurzburg. I do recall having a short leave in Paris before having to report to OCS at Fountinbleau. My OCS Certificate shows that I was in training there for my Commission from April 20 to June 16, 1945. I was awarded Expert Marksman Recognition on May 4, 1945. The war in Europe ended on May 8, 1945, while I was in OCS. 8. I was discharged on June 15, 1945 as an enlisted man for the purpose of accepting an appointment and Commission as a Second Lieutenant, Infantry, United States Army. I received my Commission on June 16 and on that date I have an order assigning me to the 2 n d Reinforcement Depot for reassignment to a new unit. On July 23, 1945, I was assigned to the 319 t h Infantry Regiment of the 80 t h Infantry Division, and was assigned to Headquarters Company of the 1s t Battalion. At this point, all Army personnel in Europe was divided up on the basis of a 'point system' called 'Adjusted Service Ratinif' to determine who would stay in Europe on occupation duty and who would be sent to the Pacific to continue the war against Japan. Based upon the schedule, I had 49 points, which qualified me for reassignment to the Far East. An August 14, 1945 letter from the 56 t h AlB of the 12 t h Armored Division shows that I was entitled to Bronze Service Stars for the 'Rhineland" and 'Central Europe" campaigns. While serving ".... �wi th the 80 t h Infantry Division, I was stationed in Southern Germany (Bavaria) and Chekoslovakia. 9. October 5, 1945, I was transferred from the 80 t h Infantry Division to the 467 t h Quartermaster Group and assigned to the 3600 Quartermaster Truck Company on October 8, 1945. From that date, until the end of August, 1946, I served with various Quartermaster Trucking Companies, including the 3357 t h Quartermaster Truck Company and the 3718 Quartermaster Truck Company. I was stationed at various locations in Germany with the Trucking Companies. 10. My 'Certificate of Service" shows I left Europe on August 1, 1946, but there is a letter in the file to Senator Vandenberg (obviously as a result of my father's inquiry) advising him that I left Europe on July 31, 1946. I arrived at Camp Kilmer, New Jersey, on August 12, 1946, and on August 17, I was granted leave to go home, was appointed a First Lieutenant, Infantry, and was also appointed to the Officer Reserve Corps. I was relieved from active duty on September 24, 1946 and continued thereafter as a member of the Officer Reserve Corps, being finally discharged from the Reserve Corps on December 19, 1952. Ann and I were married on February 16, 1952. 11. My various Army records show that I received the 'decoration, service medals and citations" . following 2 Bronze Battle Stars for the Rhineland and Central Europe Campaigns American Theater Ribbon EAME Theater Ribbon (not sure exactly what these letters stand for but I believe it is the European Theater) 3 Overseas Service Bars Victory Medal Expert, Ml Rifle Second Class Gunner, Machine Gun (MG) Combat Infantry Badge Good Conduct Medal Expert Infantry Badge Expert Marksman Received at OCS � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dilley, Alva Newton (Interview outline, video, and papers, 2 of 2), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dilley, Alva Newton Description An account of the resource Newton Dilley joined the Army in 1943 and worked with the 12th Armored Division during his time in the Army Specialized Training Program. He was eventually assigned to the 56th Armored Infantry battalion of the 12th Armored Division. He saw combat in Alsace and southwestern Germany, and before the war ended was called to finish Officer Candidate School and eventually spent more that a year working with the Army of Occupation. After his time in the service, Newton went to Yale Law School and became a lawyer. A summary of service written by Dilley is appended to his interview outline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-10-01 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DilleyN2 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aa0df0a9be249fed769d22dd22ce8511.mp4 d0f43aceeb0e3a4a38ebb72f6c262083 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/76875812cfb4671a650411989385db91.pdf 4e4547c6079d38e81db43bd57fc9e3fd PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Newton Dilley (1:38:32) Disc One (1:00:00) (00:17) Background Information • • • • • Newton was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan He is 84 years old and graduated from high school in 1941 Newton Graduated from Yale Law School in 1950 He had attended college at Colgate for three months before Pearl Harbor was hit He enlisted shortly after because he knew he would be drafted soon anyway (4:30) Enlistment • • • • Newton had been attending college in New York and enlisted in Syracuse in December of 1942 and he was able to complete the current semester in school He had bad eyes so he could not join the Navy or the Air Corps He was called to active duty in June of 1943 and went to Fort Custer in Battle Creek, MI They were then sent to Camp Roberts in California (7:10) Camp Roberts • • • • This camp was near a very small town, but it was a nice camp with wooden barracks in the dessert country Newton was with different types of men from all over the country Before enlisting, Newton had not paid much attention to the news of the war The instructors that trained them did not have any combat experience (12:45) Training • • They trained hard every day in areas such as rifle training, field training, marksmanship, compass work, overnight hikes, and mechanics They worked with mortars, machine guns, ammo, and rifles (14:30) Army Specialized Training Program (ASTP) • • Many of the men in this program had some college education The army had been short on engineers, so they were transferred to a different area to train for engineering in ASTP �• • Soon after the Army decided that they did have enough engineers and many of the men were reassigned to infantry divisions all over the country He was transferred to the 12th Armored division in Texas (16:20) Texas • • • • • • In June of 1944 Newton was assigned to the headquarters platoon of the 56th armored infantry battalion of the 12th armored division He trained with the reconnaissance platoon in areas of patrol, guides, kp, and many other odd jobs Newton worked with Jeeps, tanks, half-tracks, and scout cars Many of the new guys were given the worst jobs in the reconnaissance platoon Also people from college were given tough jobs Newton trained until September 5th, 1944 (20:00) Overseas • • • • They were shipped to the New York boarding area where there were three ships They left for Europe on October 1st, 1944 on a converted passenger liner They had to go through the typical “abandon ship training” There were no bad incidents on the trip to Liverpool (21:15) England • They did some more training after they arrived in England • They were living outside in tents and Newton got the flu • It was freezing, wet, and damp • He was in the hospital for one and a half weeks • He asked to be discharged because his division was leaving soon for France and he did not want to have to be a replacement in another division • The men did not have much time off while in England • They received technical advice and were trained to deal with Germans • They trained with bazookas, anti-tank weapons, and with infantry training (26:50) France, November 1944 • Parts of France were completely destroyed, but Paris had been liberated by the time they had arrived • Newton was assigned to General Patch’s 7th army • They had landed in southern France and came up along the eastern border • Newton joined them near Alsace where he had his first combat experience (28:00) Alsace �• • • • • • • The battle was not very difficult or bloody at first They were given easy objectives, which were to clean out the German resistance He was involved in small engagements to gain experience At night he stayed in a foxhole and got frost bite The Germans had better weapons and clothing than the Americans Many US soldiers stole clothing off German bodies, especially during the cold winter months Newton was not on the front line for a very long time (34:20) Artillery Spotting • Newton would be in an outpost with a radio to make sure that the shells were landing in the correct area (35:15) The Frontlines at Herlsheim • Newton was on an outpost when one of their tanks was hit by mortar shell • Altogether his division had 1700 lost, wounded, dead, or captured men in one week • It was difficult to travel because there were canals and rivers all over the countryside • The Germans had the overwhelming fire power of 88s • The 17th infantry division had basically been destroyed in two days • His division lost 29 tanks in one attack (40:20) The German Nordwind Attack • There was not a large German presence near the Rhine • The Germans were contained by US soldiers (42:00) OCS • Newton had signed up for Officer Candidate School earlier in the US, but had forgotten about it while in Europe • In April of 1945 he was shipped to France for OCS and stayed there through June • Newton was allowed one week leave to visit Paris • He remembered the carnage and difficulty in overtaking German equipment and personnel • He saw many burned out tanks and dead horses • It was hard to advance because there were so much abandoned German equipment, which was mostly destroyed from US aircraft (45:00) The Battle of the Bulge • Newton was never involved in the combat of the Bulge, but he as in a supporting position to the West �• He crossed the Rhine through Germany in the Spring of 1945 • They were called the mystery division because they did not want the Germans to know that the 12th had been added to Patton’s force • Newton had once been driving along in a Jeep when he saw a German soldier peeking out of a house • He stopped and went up to the house all by himself to investigate • The house had been full of German soldiers who had been waiting to surrender; many of them were hungry and drunk (51:20) The Last Few Weeks in Germany • The German infantry had been hiding all over the countryside and they lost many US soldiers • Whoever had not gained 60 service points would soon be sent over to fight in the Pacific (53:30) Alsace • The civilians in France were very nice, but the weather was miserable and he had to sleep in a potato bin to keep warm at night • The civilians had been thrilled to be liberated (55:50) Germans • They had once caught a German who had shot and killed a well-liked officer and he was later executed • The civilians were cooperative, especially after they had crossed over the Rhine • He had an overall good experience when dealing with German civilians Disc Two (38:32) (00:15) OCS Transfer • They had been marching along constantly in Germany • The school in Paris was full of soldiers from all nations • The training was in the beautiful countryside, with about 100 men • Roosevelt had died while he was in a replacement depot and he remembered that better than when the Germans surrendered (7:40) Roosevelt • Newton thought he was a great president • Newton is a very liberal person, while his family had been full of Republicans (8:30) The 80th infantry division • Newton finished in OCS in June, about five weeks after VE Day �• • He was assigned to the 80th infantry division in southern Bavaria He worked with the 80th for about 6 months and then went to Czechoslovakia to work with trucking companies, which were made up mostly of black men • Most of the armed services had been segregated then, although black units still had white officers • Newton worked on maintenance, transporting personnel and equipment (14:30) The End of the War • Newton only had 49 points and needed 60 to end his time in the service • He did not get home until September of 1946 • Meanwhile he was part of the armored occupation for over a year • He was later discharged in Camp Cook, Illinois • Newton stayed in the reserves for 7 years until he was married in 1952 • He never got called to duty in Korea (17:00) Back to School • Newton only needed one more year of college to graduate and he was finished in 1947 • He then went on to Yale Law School, which had been full of veterans • His overall experience in the service was positive and he met lots of great people and learned a great deal � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dilley, Alva Newton (Interview outline, video, and papers, 1 of 2), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dilley, Alva Newton Description An account of the resource Newton Dilley joined the Army in 1943 and worked with the 12th Armored Division during his time in the Army Specialized Training Program. He was eventually assigned to the 56th Armored Infantry battalion of the 12th Armored Division. He saw combat in Alsace and southwestern Germany, and before the war ended was called to finish Officer Candidate School and eventually spent more that a year working with the Army of Occupation. After his time in the service, Newton went to Yale Law School and became a lawyer. A summary of service written by Dilley is appended to his interview outline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-10-01 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DilleyN1 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4a17bfd1a39abacbaf0c399483307ba1.mp4 cca7f99aeec54a6596e2f145c553db49 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/98f6ab43eaccc349179768337836976e.pdf ab899af09cf0fcf6e1af60182ba19b26 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Claude Dies Vietnam War Total Time: 31:48 (split into two parts) Pre-War (00:38) • • • Born in 1945. (15:05) Was in a family of 12. Was drafted at 20, and joined the Marines. Training (02:40) • • Attended boot camp at MCRD in San Diego, CA. (18:30) After boot camp, he was sent to the Air Radio Electronics School, where they were trained in ground to air radios. Active Duty (08:59) • • He worked at the New River Air Base, in Jacksonville, NC where he had to rewire almost the entire base. He was there for 2 years. The base was built in the World War II era and was not upgraded until they worked on it. He left the service in December 1968. Post-Service (13:00) • Worked in Avionics after the war. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dies, Claude (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dies, Claude Description An account of the resource Claude Dies was born in 1945 and served in the Vietnam War with the Marine Corps. He was trained in the area of Air Radio Electronics after basic training, and was sent to New River Air Base in Jacksonville, North Carolina where he spent most of his tour of duty working as an electrician on rewiring the base. After his time in the service, he worked in Avionics. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Partridge, Ellen (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Marine Corps Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-05-29 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DiesC Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d96f2d1bba8b976be34351eeda25e25b.mp4 f328c66816264b260101d960158f5e40 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b4d1f5f75f2ed07946def03e4f58a743.pdf dc635f2f4dee4cb911da94336abeff41 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee: Henry Diedering Length of Interview: 00:32:48 Background           He was born in Drenthe, one of the 11 provinces of the Netherlands on July 6, 1926. After a few years his family would move to Limburg, the most southern province of the Netherlands, so his father could work in the coal mines. He would grow up in Heerlen. His father would not work as a coal miner, underground, but he would work in the machine shop. He would have 7 grades of education at a Christian school. That was the end of school and then he would start working. He would work on the vegetable market, selling vegetables, but was fired because he spilled some gas on the floor of the garage while trying to fill up the truck that was used to transport the veggies in. After that he began to work at a drug store. He would deliver medications to the village people on a bicycle. Before the invasion, he had no idea of what was going on in Europe. After France and England had declared war on Germany, it was assumed that the Nether lands would remain neutral. His home town would be close to the German border. When the Germans invaded, he remembers being in the 2nd story of his house and seeing the Germans come to invade through a field nearby and even saw them come out of the parachutes. There were not Dutch troops in the town that he saw, so the Germans just walked right in. German Occupation (3:50)       When the Germans occupied his home town, things would be very different. There was a shortage of food, and there were restrictions placed on the Jews in the town. He would graduate then and work at the jobs he described before. He remembers standing in the food line, waiting to get soup. At the time, he did not know of any resistance that the Dutch were trying to do against the Germans. Later on, he would find out of a group of people that he knew who were forming a resistance group, who were found out by the Germans. They would be sent to Germany and killed. His family would not have any trouble with the Germans. His father would keep a radio under the floorboards of the living room and listen to transmissions that were sent from England, in Dutch. �       When the Germans would come to check on the families, his father would go and hide in the field when they came. You had to be careful and could not even trust your neighbor. He remembers three doors down from his house was a collaborator, who would have told the Germans, if he had found out about the radio. About a year later, in 1941 or’42, the Germans would start taking things like radios, bicycles, food, and anything brass. They wanted the metal for the war. After the Allies had begun to attack Germany, he would see aircraft go by frequently. He would see big drones being sent over by the Allies to attack Germany. He would also hear a lot of V-1 and V-2 rockets that the Germans had launched to attack England. He knew that if they had gone quiet that they were coming down. There were no direct hits by any of the German missiles in his area. His life, more or less, changed drastically when he became 18, in 1944. When the men turned 18, they had to report to Germany where they would be placed in work camps, or they would help to serve the German Army by digging hole for them and such. He wanted no part of that, so all on his own he took a train to Rotterdam to look for a job. He would get one on a ship on the Rhine River. He would go up to Switzerland and back down to Rotterdam working his job. When the Allied Forces attacked Normandy and began bombing, his ship would get bombed in the process, leaving him without a job. This was in October of 1944. Refugee (8:52)         He stayed in the air raid shelter for a while, but was chased out because the shelter was only for the women and children. So then he became a refugee in Germany and tried to get back into the Netherlands. While he was there he had only the clothes on his back. He would survive by going into abandoned or blown up homes, eating any food that he could find, or sometimes going without. He would eventually find himself in a small German village, where he was more or less adopted. There was only one man in the village, a carpenter who had broken his arm. The rest of the men were working the anti-aircraft fire in the bigger cities. He would work in the village helping get the women and children to the shelter in exchange for food and he would bring cookies that the women made to the men in the cities. The men, in turn would give him cigarettes, which was more important than food for some. One day, a group of Canadian soldier would come to the town and one of them would speak Dutch. He would tell the man that he was a Hollander and that he wanted to go back home. They would help him get back to Holland in early 1945. As a refugee, he did speak the German language. He would learn most of it when he worked on the ship. He was supposed to serve in the German Camps, but since he went to work in Rotterdam, where there was not much control on checking the people, he was able to escape the Germans. After the ship he worked on was bombed, he and some of the others who worked on the ship would go to a nearby market, where a group of German soldiers would take everything from them, including their identification. �   The Allies would see them in a group and begin shooting at them. The Germans would run away and he and the others would scatter. He would not see any of them again. His family had no knowledge of him leaving at all. For a year, his family never heard from him and he from them. He would get back home in early ’45. He was there for 5 weeks when he saw a poster that advertised to fight the Japanese by joining the Marines and training in the United States. He would sign up for it, as he had no desire to stay home. To the United States; Training (15:00)             Via Belgium, he would go to England and then be shipped to the United States in an LST. He would ride to the US with a group of American soldiers who had served in Normandy. The ride over there was terrible. Some guys got in their hammocks and never left. Many got sea sick and the food was terrible. He did not get sea sick himself. He would arrive in Norfolk, Virginia and would be sent to boot camp for training. He would train with other Dutch Marines, in the Dutch Army. His expectation is that he would help with the invasion of Japan, but by the time his training was done, Japan had quit the war. He was trained to be a cook. He had cooked when he worked on the Rhine. He was not given a choice of his training. He would work as a Sergeant, 1st Class and would work as a cook, serving 250 Marines. He would get physical and weapons training while he was there as well. It was hard at first. They were pretty rough. He was being trained by Americans and knew very little English. He would then be shipped to Indonesia, where there was Japanese occupation. Just before he was shipped out, he had a week where he could go anywhere. He and his buddy would go to visit his buddy’s uncle who lived in Chicago. On the trip there, he was bitten by a bug and ended up in the Great Lakes Naval Hospital for a week. He asked for an extension but was denied. He would go back to North Carolina to rejoin the unit. And they shipped out from there to go to Indonesia. Indonesia (18:40)  They would travel by boat through the Mediterranean Sea, the Suez Canal, through the Indian Ocean and stopped at Calcutta, India.  He did have a chance to get of the ship there and remembers people dying of starvation on the streets.  They would continue on up to Singapore, but were not allowed to land there immediately. So they spent some time in a rubber plantation before being able to land in East Java.  He would be stationed in the town of Surabaya for almost three years.  When he first got there, he first saw a native, primitive lifestyle compared to the Netherlands and most certainly the United States. But the people there were friendly. It was the extremists and those who were fighting for their independence who gave them the trouble. �                The company that he was with would do some fighting and he remembers that they did have to bury some of the men. He would not personally see much combat, as he worked in the kitchen. A typical day was an early start, making sure that everyone got fed. He would also organize the activities for the day. He had about half a dozen people working for him in the kitchen. All of them were Dutch soldiers. He would move through many different towns. As his company would progress, he would move with them. It was very hot, every day there. It did not have a huge effect on the Dutch soldiers, though did not wear as many clothes as they normally would. They had problems with bugs. He got bit by a scorpion one time. There was good medical care, a few may have caught malaria, but most of them would be ok when it came to diseases. He did not take anything to prevent malaria himself. He would serve more inland, in not so swampy areas. The Dutch would finally get control of Indonesia, but the Allied Troops would eventually let them have their liberty. As a soldier, he could not tell much of what was going on politically. There were no major changes that occurred while he was there for the three years. He would personally have a lot of contact with the civilian population there, because he would buy stuff, or borrow dishes from them. There were also some Dutch people in the area, which had grown up there or lived there. Eventually they would get the orders that their time was up. They were all ready to go back home. Home (25:35)          They would head home on a troop transport ship. They got back to the Netherlands, but were ignored by the local people. It was comparable to the US locals coming back from Vietnam. They were never recognized as soldiers. The average person did not care about the whole colonial thing that was going on in Indonesia. He would go back to his home town for just a few weeks and then he would go to another town and stayed with his aunt. There he would get a job as a tool and die maker. He would do this from 1948-1950, until he was allowed to immigrate to the United States. He decided to go to the US because he had been here and he loved it here. There were also more job opportunities available in the US. His family did not care much about it. His family was not so much a “normal family” like most. His mother died when he was 10 and his father would marry the housekeeper. They would have two daughters and the sons from his previous marriage would be neglected. That’s why he moved out. In 1950, he would go to the United States. �           He would move to Chicago at first and lived with his buddy’s uncle for about three months. He had already met his girlfriend at the time, and eventually got sick of writing letters and moved up to Grand Rapids. He would work as a tool and die maker. But he had learned everything in centimeters and millimeters, not inches and feet. It took too long for him to do his job, so the boss had him sweep floors instead. Then he got a job dairy farm and he would become a milk man. After that he would become his own boss and he would make bread. His business would become the Harvest Health food store. His brothers would come over in 1955 and 1966. They came because he encouraged them to and they were not happy in the Netherlands. (29:50) Looking back at the time when his father had the radio, he did not know much about the war. He was too young to care. There were some Germans in the area, but not many. He did not see the war in the Netherlands actually happen as he was out of the country at the time. While he was there, there was simply not a lot of food for people to eat, though people did grow their own food. It would be more toward the end of the war, when he was in Amsterdam, den Haag and Rotterdam that he would see people starving in the streets. His life in the Marines would give him a sense of independence, but he already had that as a refugee and back home. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Diedering, Henry (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Diedering, Henry Description An account of the resource Henry Diedering was a teenager in the Netherlands when the Germans took over in 1940. He describes life in his home town under occupation, and of his efforts to avoid being impressed as a forced laborer by the Germans when he turned 18. He made his way to Rotterdam and got a job on a cargo ship on the Rhine River, and worked on it until the ship was damaged by Allied air attack. After that, he tried to make his way home, staying in damaged and abandoned houses, until he found a German village that had no able-bodied men in it, and where he worked for the villagers until the spring of 1945, when the Canadians took over the area. Seeing few opportunities at home, he enlisted in the Dutch Marine Corps and was sent to Indonesia, where the Dutch were attempting to reassert control, and was sent home after the Dutch agreed to leave. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-02-25 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DiederingH Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6bfd15b5da21612e93f331d72c9119e3.m4v ffb7b2a8f1a8cc2812e8d96449217f2f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/899ad6baa4930f5d445e421988df6edb.pdf cf6836eb0df35d753dc8bf186ebc8bc5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project World War II Jake DeWitt Length of Interview (00:40:42) Background Born in 1922, Grand Rapids, MI Hall Street School Father worked for the Tanglefoot Co.  Made fly paper Family was large (four younger sisters) DeWitt was in an accident that broke both of his legs; put into an ungraded room in Hall Street School Sent to Davis Tech (on Division Ave.) to learn a trade  Learned typesetting and electric welding Got a job at Western Union; sister working at Bissell Went to get a job there, got it right away (15 years old, 1930’s) Heard of news about the war in Europe, didn’t pay much attention (00:03:40) Heard about Pearl Harbor over the radio, was shocked Knew he was going to be drafted soon; had lost his job when the war started  Went to the Recruiting Station with a buddy; chose the Navy Sent to Detroit for a check-up Chose the Navy because he didn’t want to be in the mud One of his friends (who was too old to be drafted) received letters from the other boys in the Army and other branches One particular friend, in the Army, had written about the poor conditions he was in �Assignment: USS Roper (00:06:05) Camp Green Bay, Milwaukee; went to New York, Pier 92 (Roper) During basic training: a lot of marching; learned to take orders Wasn’t bothered by basic training; in good physical shape No weapons training; no training about ships (shortage of sailors, out in 28 days) Joined to Roper in early 1943 (late 1942) Roper was a beautiful ship (a Destroyer) (00:08:00)  Excellent Captain; a career Navy man  Changed commanders after sinking a German U-Boat, the U-85  Built like a submarine; maneuverable, went faster than the newer battle ships being built  Very distinctive: four smoke stacks Had picked up a pregnant woman stranded at sea; gave birth to a boy The boy grew up to go into the Navy, as well First job involved sailing up and down the coast of Virginia (00:10:05)  Place loaded with German ships and submarines Assigned as Gunner’s Mate; usually on the galley deckhouse  Had a radioman who would update them during action (5 other men on the deck) PBY (flying boat); “Sub Chasers”  Would spot German subs and inform the ship  Would drop charges and oil would start coming to the surface if direct hit  Germans sometimes used decoys (oil spills, etc.) to simulate a hit Before DeWitt had come on, there was a chase dealing with a submarine which had surfaced due to lack of power (00:12:20) Didn’t keep track of time (months); followed routine (00:13:00) �Assigned to convoy duty; Straits of Gibraltar  Traveled with Liberty Ships (200-300 ships in a convoy); very hard to handle, would zigzag often  German torpedoes had difficulty hitting them Sometimes there were storms as they crossed the Atlantic  All that could be seen were waves; like a cork on the water  Terrifying experience, at first; got used to it  Navy life is repetitive After leaving France, went through the Panama Canal to Guam then Okinawa (00:15:25) Didn’t stay in the convoy long; left the “Frog Men” aka Navy Seals in rubber boats  Assisting them to land in Southern France (didn’t know where they were at the time) After dropping them off, picked up some North African soldiers in the French Army Didn’t go ashore often; Sicily, Italy The whole city (Naples) was leveled, cathedrals still stood  Stayed for six hours, not much time Convoy Duty: Straits of Gibraltar (00:18:00) Didn’t see any German submarines in the Mediterranean; saw them in the Straits of Gibraltar  Had sunk a couple there (when the convoy was with them)  Subs had sunk three ships while they were going out; ships peeled off When they got closer (to Europe) saw quite a few Bombers flying (American)  Incredibly loud roar whenever they flew over Didn’t see much of the local population when on shore, mostly personnel Received letters from his family; not married, yet (not until convalescent leave)  A lot of his letters were censored, cut up �After convoy duty, went to Charleston, South Carolina, made LS-20 (previously APD-147); two of the ship’s smokestacks were removed (00:21:15)  Sent to Okinawa afterwards  Carried four landing crafts on their ships; used for naval invasions Lived in the barracks in Charleston Wasn’t sure how long they were onshore; given plenty of liberty, couldn’t go home Guam (00:23:00) Sent through the Panama Canal to Guam  Lost one of the sailors there, didn’t get back on the boat (stayed on shore)  Sailed straight to Guam; didn’t always sail alone The new captain was considered a “90-day Wonder” (Lieutenant, fresh from the Academy); was a good fellow Officers kept to themselves, separated usually; DeWitt talked to everyone anyway (00:25:05)  Didn’t know much about the captain Stayed in Guam and loaded up for supplies before going to Okinawa; part of the first wave Ship was hit by an oil tanker trying to refuel; went back (to Guam)  Had been reported sunk as two of their landing barges were seen floating around  Had been too close to the tanker (10ft apart), so both barges were swiped off  When getting back to Guam, the authority there did not believe what had happened  The hull had a 12ft gash; the fresh water was put on the port side to make the ship lean on its side  Didn’t take too long to fix; didn’t replace their landing craft The “frog men” would come aboard only when they were needed to get to shore �Okinawa (00:28:45) It was hell over in Okinawa The Japanese would swim out from the islands with dynamite on them; on the ship, would have machine guns trained on the water, told to shoot whatever was floating  DeWitt shot six times and four of the six exploded Also being attacked from the air; all the time (300 miles from Japan)  Would use their own guns to shoot aircraft Ships were anchored (six or seven) and DeWitt’s ship was in the front; started a smoke screen Could only see a cloud of smoke; Betty’s (twin engine bombers) flew over and didn’t know where to bomb  Had to dampen towels and hold them over their mouths and noses in order to breath No kamikazes; attacked by fighters The tactics at the beginning of the War (by the Navy) were to turn broadside in order to have more firepower, were actually giving the planes bigger (and easier) targets Later in the War, would turn so their tail would face the plane, would make the plane pull up and miss DeWitt’s ship was hit by a plane (a fighter plane); had orders to not fire because Marines were having dog fights above their ships (00:31:35)  The plane that had hit them was actually on fire as it crashed into them  Hit the Chief’s Quarters  DeWitt was at the bow manning his gun (number one gun)  Plane hit the starboard (right side) of the ship  DeWitt and the other men were knocked off their guns by the impact o The Japanese pilot’s body actually landed where DeWitt was sitting before the crash  Broke his arm and had a bone sticking out from his skin �Recuperation and Discharge (00:34:10) Went to Hope, a hospital ship, but they didn’t have the technology to remove some of the bone fragments Sent to Guam; didn’t have the machine either Flew to Pearl Harbor; wound up in Oceanside, California, a Marine hospital  Arm was in a sling the whole time  Germany had surrendered the day DeWitt had his surgery (it was actually the announcement of the end of the war)  Wounded on the 25th of May  Stayed in the hospital quite a while; didn’t get discharged until around Christmas Sorted out letters at the hospital to get liberty (00:36:20)  Would just walk around mainly due to his injury o Memphis (had wound up there after his surgery) Married on October 26, 1945; had known her from before the war, had written letters (00:37:25) Went back to work for Bissell; stayed with them for 44 years Learned how to obey orders; how to get along with all kinds of people (00:38:45) Started going to reunions in 1991 Stayed in touch with some of the guys from his ship In the Navy, they never stood still, there was always something to do and they did them happily � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource DeWitt, Jake (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DeWitt, Jake Description An account of the resource Jake DeWitt served during the Second World War as a Gunner's Mate on the USS Roper, a destroyer from WWI. The Roper patrolled the Virginia coast where it sunk its first German submarine, then travelled to the Straits of Gibraltar for convoy duty. She was eventually struck near Okinawa when a Japanese fighter plane crashed into the side of the ship injuring DeWitt. Dewitt was eventually discharged after recovering from his arm injury. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-02-16 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DeWittJ Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a3d187dac404755081bc6c7113f0e059.mp4 1da2ee31c150b701e2c15b9c36cfca9a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3eaabf892ef1f95c6095294d041288b2.pdf 7406a04c4a7a16c97dee95698afba76f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Arthur DeWitt World War II Interview Length: (01:01:59:00) Pre-Enlistment / Training / Deployment (00:00:26:00) · DeWitt was born in Lapeer, Michigan on October 1st, 1921; however, his mother died when he was three and his family then moved to Kalamazoo, Michigan (00:00:26:00) o While DeWitt was young, his father worked for the Coast Guard; although DeWitt does not know where exactly his father was stationed, he believes it was in Grand Haven, Michigan (00:00:55:00) · DeWitt actually joined the Michigan National Guard before his senior year of high school, which caused him to miss out on his senior year (00:01:22:00) o When DeWitt joined the National Guard, he had been out drinking with two of his friends from high school, DeWitt got pretty drunk, and the friends managed to get him down to the enlistment offices; DeWitt was so drunk, he enlisted in the National Guard without even realizing it (00:01:43:00) § The next morning, people from the National Guard called DeWitt to inform him he had enlisted in the National Guard but he had no idea what they were talking about (00:02:03:00) · Once he had joined the National Guard, DeWitt went through his basic training in Kalamazoo (00:02:30:00) · When DeWitt first joined the National Guard, it was part-time until October 1940, when the National Guard was officially mobilized by the federal government; after mobilizing on Oct. 15th, the soldiers left for Camp Beauregard, Louisiana on Oct. 19th (00:03:17:00) o DeWitt cannot remember much about Camp Beauregard (00:03:47:00) § For the most part, DeWitt remembers the heat, being in the swamps, and having to deal with the local fauna, including alligators (00:04:26:00) · At one point, DeWitt’s unit was on a three- or four-day exercise in the field and one morning, he woke up and a coral snake was sitting next to his leg (00:04:43:00) o Another soldier killed the snake because DeWitt was barefoot and as DeWitt reached for his canteen cup so he could get a cup of coffee, a black widow spider crawled out of the cup (00:05:45:00) · As well, DeWitt was twice bitten by scorpions, once in Louisiana and once when he had deployed to New Guinea (00:06:01:00) o While at Camp Beauregard, DeWitt and the other soldiers went through various types of training, including bayonet and rifle training; basically, any training related to the infantry (00:06:30:00) § For the most part, the soldiers trained with World War I-era weapons, including the M1903 Springfield rifle (00:06:53:00) § Initially, DeWitt went through training to be a regular infantryman but was eventually converted into a B.A.R. (Browning Automatic Rifle) gunner; �however, DeWitt does not know why the decision was made to make him into a BAR gunner (00:07:12:00) · For the most part, nobody wanted to be a BAR gunner or a machine gunner because those two assignments tended to draw a lot of attention from the enemy (00:07:36:00) o DeWitt does not remember having too much trouble adapting to life in the military; for one, he was not very homesick because he and his parents were not close to each other to being with (00:07:55:00) o Every now and then, DeWitt and the other soldiers would receive passes to go into New Orleans, where they would go bar-hopping and to movies (00:08:42:00) o When the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor happened in Dec. 1941, DeWitt and the other soldiers were on an exercise; when news about the attack came in, the men were called in from the exercise and listened on the radio as President Roosevelt gave his speech on the radio and declared war (00:09:38:00) § By the next day, the soldiers in the camp were sent out to defend various key locations in the local area (00:09:48:00) o At the time, the soldiers were being trained for the possibility of combat in the European theater (00:10:35:00) § In fact, DeWitt and the other soldiers made it as far as Boston, Massachusetts before General Douglas McArthur decided he needed their division in the Pacific; this meant the soldiers received training for both the European theater and the Pacific theater (00:10:51:00) · However, some of the training the men received for the European theater, such as bayonet training, was useless once the soldiers got into the Pacific theater (00:11:11:00) · DeWitt does not remember much about the various train trips he and the other soldiers took back and forth across the country (00:11:56:00) o Eventually, the soldiers made out to California, where they boarded the U.S.S. Lurline, which was a large cruise ship that the Navy had converted to be a troop transport (00:12:14:00) § DeWitt and the other soldiers experienced terrible living conditions on the Lurline because they were positioned in the hold of the ship and the heat and smell were tremendous (00:12:30:00) · Although the soldiers were technically not supposed to, DeWitt would crawl onto the deck of the ship at night to get some fresh air (00:12:43:00) · On the other hand, the food aboard the ship was pretty good; however, most of the soldiers were sea-sick off and on during the voyage and could not eat anything anyway (00:12:50:00) § The weather during the voyage was beautiful (00:13:17:00) § During the voyage across the Pacific, the Lurline was part of a larger convoy of ships; although DeWitt cannot remember the exact number of ships, he does remember there being U.S. Navy destroyers sprinkled in amongst the troop transports (00:13:39:00) · After the Lurline finished the voyage across the Pacific, the ship docked in Adelaide, Australia (00:13:53:00) �o Once in Adelaide, the soldiers stayed aboard the ship and DeWitt remembers being able to look out and see people on the shore; when the Lurline left California, DeWitt had no idea he would eventually end up in Australia, only that he was deploying somewhere overseas (00:14:06:00) § Years after the war, DeWitt remembers hearing the as the convoy the Lurline was a part of sailed through the Coral Sea, Japanese naval forces were actively trying to attack the convoy (00:14:47:00) o Adelaide was a nice city and DeWitt remembers there being a large number of churches in the city (00:15:08:00) § Although DeWitt managed to meet a couple of girls in the city, the Army kept pretty close tabs on all the soldiers (00:15:25:00) o The soldiers were not in Adelaide too long before they had to move up to Brisbane by train (00:15:32:00) § At one point during the trip from Adelaide to Brisbane, the grade of the railroad tracks was so steep that all the soldiers had to get off the train and help push the train up (00:15:52:00) o Once the soldiers were in Brisbane, they went through additional training, specifically focusing on jungle training because by then, the soldiers knew they would be fighting in the jungle (00:16:11:00) § The jungle training in Brisbane was different from the training the soldiers had already gone through; for the most part, the training focused on what the soldiers might encounter in the jungle (00:16:24:00) § However, for DeWitt, training was training and he could not recognize anything than was significantly different from the training he and the other soldiers had already done (00:16:38:00) · DeWitt does not remember any part of the training focusing on the tactics being used by the Japanese because nobody really knew about what the Japanese tactics were (00:17:01:00) · When it became time for them to leave Brisbane, DeWitt and the other soldiers boarded a ship that carried them to Port Moresby on New Guinea (00:17:28:00) o DeWitt does not recall a lot about Port Moresby other than maybe a couple of buildings (00:17:43:00) o After the soldiers landed at Port Moresby, they stayed in the town for awhile, which was when DeWitt was bitten by a scorpion for the second time (00:17:55:00) § From what the soldiers understood, the Japanese were about thirty miles away from Port Moresby when they landed (00:18:06:00) o DeWitt is not exactly sure how long he and the other soldiers spent in Port Moresby but he figures it was around a week (00:18:48:00) o Once they finally did leave the town, the soldiers headed towards the Owen Stanley mountains in the center of the island (00:19:03:00) § Some of the soldiers in DeWitt’s division flew part of the way then walked the remainder while other soldiers walked all the way from Port Moresby; DeWitt’s unit was one of the units that flew over the Owen Stanley mountains and landed at an airbase situated between the Owen Stanley mountains and another mountain chain and from there, the �soldiers walked the rest of the way (00:19:05:00) § DeWitt cannot recall the whole march up the second mountain chain, only various incidents, such as looking down from the top of the mountains and seeing a vast expanse of trees (00:20:13:00) · DeWitt does remember that the weather was extremely hot and muggy (00:20:13:00) § As they marched, DeWitt and the other soldiers were trying to carry their equipment and supplies as lightly as they could; almost every day, the soldiers “disposed” of something to make their loads lighter (00:20:45:00) · For the most part, DeWitt got rid of the supplies and equipment that he did not think would be necessary (00:20:58:00) § During the march over the mountains, DeWitt does not recall his unit ever encountering Japanese forces (00:21:36:00) Buna, New Guinea (00:21:54:00) · Eventually, the soldiers reached the area around the village of Buna and DeWitt remembers there being a lot of swamp land around the village (00:21:54:00) o DeWitt remembers that the Japanese attacked the night after the soldiers had arrived in Buna and settled into the village (00:22:24:00) § DeWitt cannot recall whether the American forces taking any casualties during the first Japanese attack (00:22:47:00) o It rained every night and would fill the foxholes that the soldiers had dug with water; if the soldiers had to go to the bathroom, the waste would be floating on the water because the soldiers did not dare get out of their foxholes (00:23:47:00) § The soldiers stayed in their foxholes out of fear of possible Japanese patrols in the area, especially at night (00:24:14:00) · DeWitt does not recall ever putting out anything that would make noise if an Japanese patrol was near (00:24:42:00) · DeWitt does not remember too much about the battle of Buna itself; he witnessed so much that he has tried to block part of it out (00:25:14:00) o DeWitt does remember that toward the end of the fighting, all the soldiers were fatigued and when a couple of soldiers started acting carelessly, giving away the position of the unit, so DeWitt, being one of the more experienced of the remaining soldiers, had to knock the soldiers out the butt of his rifle (00:25:47:00) o A couple of days later, DeWitt and the other soldiers had engaged the Japanese and DeWitt himself “lost his head”; he started charging towards the enemy but tripped and fell (00:26:24:00) § Another soldier helped DeWitt back to the main line and DeWitt managed to compose himself (00:26:53:00) § Most of the men changed while around Buna; having the being in combat daily, only eating what food they could find, etc., affected all of the soldiers to one degree or another (00:27:23:00) o Over the course of the fighting, DeWitt’s unit tried to make progress every day but the Japanese had strategically placed snipers and fortified pillboxes, both of which made any progress difficult (00:27:51:00) �§ If the soldiers had had access to either artillery or air strikes, DeWitt figures his unit could have successfully advanced into Buna in only a couple of weeks (00:28:14:00) § The division did have three small tanks and those represented the only heavy artillery available to the soldiers (00:28:57:00) · At one point, DeWitt was in the lead group of an attack being supported by the tanks and the next thing he knew, all three of the tanks were in flames (00:29:10:00) · None of the crewmen made it out and the fire was so intense that none of the infantry could get close enough to help (00:29:24:00) o During the Buna campaign, unlike most of the other soldiers, DeWitt did not get sick from one of the various tropical diseases (00:31:22:00) § DeWitt had made up his mind that he would not get sick and took preventative measures, so he was one of the last soldiers in his unit not to be sick and able to walk to the airplane once the unit was finally relieved by other American forces (00:31:43:00) · The remainder of the soldiers had either been wiped out by malaria or had been wounded during the fighting (00:32:01:00) · DeWitt does not remember the exact number of soldiers in his company who made it through the fighting at Buna completely unscathed, although he figures it was only around four or five total; the remainder of the soldiers in the company was either wounded, killed, or infected with a disease and had to be pulled out before the end of the battle (00:32:12:00) o Once the fighting at Buna was over, DeWitt was not allowed to go into Buna to see the Japanese positions; he was immediately pulled out and sent back to Australia (00:33:58:00) o Because of the nightly rains, the soldiers had a steady supply of water; however, what food they managed to find, they often had to take food carried on the bodies of dead soldiers as well as eat whatever food they could find, such as coconuts that had been knocked off trees by gun and mortar fire (00:33:20:00) § DeWitt ate so much coconut that when he finally got home, he told his wife never to have coconut in their house (00:33:13:00) § Apart from food, DeWitt also gathered up any spare ammunition from the bodies of dead soldiers (00:34:16:00) · During his time on New Guinea, although some of the other soldiers did, DeWitt did not have any contact with the native population (00:34:28:00) · Once DeWitt was finally pulled off of New Guinea, he and the other soldiers were placed on a boat and sent back to Australia (00:34:45:00) o Getting off of New Guinea was a great relief for DeWitt and the other soldiers because they knew they were going back to a land of civilization (00:34:58:00) o The ship from New Guinea landed in a small town in northern Australia and DeWitt promptly came down with malaria; through a series of circumstances, DeWitt ended up at a hospital in Sydney, Australia (00:35:20:00) § DeWitt was in the hospital for two weeks, at which point he learned he was being promoted to technical sergeant; however, he ran afoul of one of �the nurses in the hospital and ended up be re-assigned to a different division, which ended up costing him his promotion (00:36:06:00) · DeWitt was not happy in the hospital and accepted the reassignment so he could just get out of there (00:36:55:00) o Once out of the hospital, DeWitt was assigned to the 41st Infantry Division, which had yet to be in actual combat; when DeWitt first joined his new company, he was the only combat veteran in the entire company (00:37:03:00) § DeWitt got along real well with the soldiers in his new company, who treated him very well (00:37:18:00) § The division consisted of soldiers from New York state and other New England states (00:37:24:00) 41st Infantry Division / End of Deployment / Reflections (00:37:44:00) · When DeWitt left the hospital in Sydney and joined the 41st Infantry, the division had already deployed to New Guinea (00:37:44:00) o After DeWitt joined the 41st Infantry in New Guinea, the division launched an attack against the Japanese-held island of Biak (00:38:05:00) § Although the fighting on Biak was not at intense as the fighting around Buna, it was still rough (00:38:11:00) · One notable different between the fighting DeWitt did around Buna and the fighting he did on Biak was that Biak was all dry ground, unlike the swamps surrounding Buna (00:38:17:00) · Again, as with Buna, DeWitt does not remember the soldiers having any artillery or air support (00:38:26:00) At one point, DeWitt’s company was engaged with Japanese forces and he § had his BAR laying in front of him when the next thing he knew, the gun splintered from a 50-caliber round hitting it (00:39:01:00) · The loss of his BAR ended DeWitt’s time as a BAR gunner and he became a regular rifleman (00:39:18:00) o Following Biak, the 41st launched attacks against several different islands in the Philippines, including the island of Mindanao (00:39:32:00) § However, the fighting then was not too severe and the men saw very little actual combat (00:39:42:00) · In truth, the 41st Infantry saw nothing close to what the 32nd Infantry had to go through (00:39:50:00) · Nevertheless, the soldiers were still undersupplied and to resort to eating birds and coconuts (00:40:14:00) o While DeWitt was stationed on Biak, one day, his company had set up a defensive position for the night and three other soldiers who knew DeWitt had combat experience tried to get DeWitt to take them up a nearby hill; however, DeWitt was hesitant out of fear of a Japanese attack (00:40:41:00) § However, the other soldier eventually talked DeWitt into taking them up the hill and once the group was at the top of the hill, they ran into an empty Japanese camp with several bottles of sake (00:41:12:00) § DeWitt and the other soldiers started drinking the sake when DeWitt heard rustling sounds in the bush; DeWitt then alerted the other soldiers that they �had company and told them what to do (00:41:28:00) § DeWitt moved to the south and came upon an opening in the brush that had a Japanese soldier standing in the middle of it (00:41:48:00) § DeWitt initially froze but he thought the Japanese soldier was carrying a gun, so he pulled up his rifle, which promptly jammed; however, it was then that DeWitt noticed the Japanese soldier had not been carrying a gun but was carrying a stick (00:41:58:00) § The Japanese soldier charged at DeWitt, the two men got into hand-tohand combat and eventually ended up in the nearby river, where DeWitt was able to restrain the Japanese soldier (00:42:23:00) § DeWitt initially suggested taking the Japanese soldier prisoner but one of the other soldiers on the shore ended up shooting and killing the soldier anyway (00:42:45:00) o Another time, DeWitt jumped a Japanese soldier as he walked out of a cave because he wanted to take the soldier prisoner (00:43:41:00) § DeWitt and his company had just landed and they knew the Japanese were in the cave, so they used grenades and a flame thrower to flush the enemy out of the caves (00:44:20:00) § At the time, DeWitt and the other soldiers were under orders to take prisoners whenever they could so they could get information from them about the Japanese positions (00:44:38:00) § When the company returned to camp, the commanders wanted to courtmartial DeWitt but the following day, before anything could happen, the company was in combat (00:44:53:00) · During the fighting, DeWitt managed to save the life of the commanding officer, who then decided to drop to the court-martial against DeWitt (00:45:03:00) · DeWitt was actually court-martialed four different times; however, each of the four times, he was either in the United States or Australia, never near the front (00:45:34:00) o DeWitt was court-martialed because he kept going AWOL (Absent Without Leave) from his unit (00:45:57:00) o The punishments normally lasted only thirty days and during the second courtmartial, DeWitt was assigned to beating rocks with a sledgehammer (00:46:07:00) § It was hot and when DeWitt told the guard he needed water, the guard ignored him; however, the second time DeWitt said he needed water, the guard pointed his gun at DeWitt, so DeWitt hit the guard with his sledgehammer (00:46:34:00) § The other guard actually came to the defense of DeWitt and said that DeWitt had been asking for water but the first guard was not letting him have any (00:47:09:00) o None of DeWitt’s court-martials ever resulted from any serious type of an offense by DeWitt (00:47:32:00) · When DeWitt joined the 41st, he tried to tell the other soldiers in his company what advice he knew about fighting in the jungle (00:47:47:00) o Two of the biggest lessons DeWitt gave was telling the soldiers to use their �instincts and to not try to be a hero (00:48:10:00) o According to DeWitt’s advice, the soldier’s training would only take them so far and the rest was luck; the soldiers who were lucky were the soldiers who survived the fighting (00:48:26:00) · DeWitt’s company spent a month or two stationed on Mindanao before moving to the nearby island (00:49:31:00) o The fighting in the Philippines was much more docile compared to the fighting DeWitt had gone through on New Guinea (00:49:47:00) o Although he is unsure exactly how it happened, DeWitt somehow ended up being assigned to an intelligence section, which involved going on patrols with infantry units to find any useful information regarding the Japanese forces (00:50:07:00) § One time, DeWitt and another soldier from the intelligence section went out on patrol with a squad to investigate reports of the Japanese attacking a village to the north of the American position (00:50:22:00) § One day, two or three Filipinos talked DeWitt into going onto a hilltop with them and after four or five hours, the group made contact with Japanese forces; DeWitt started to give orders to position the group but when he looked around, everyone was gone (00:50:44:00) · Luckily, DeWitt was able to sneak out of the area and make it back to camp (00:51:17:00) o The local population was underfed, so DeWitt would go out with three or four canoes and use dynamite to fish (00:51:44:00) o When DeWitt was assigned to the intelligence section, he did not receive any formal training for the assignment (00:52:50:00) § There were eight soldiers in the section, with a sergeant as the leader and a corporal as his second-in-command (00:52:56:00) § The assignment was relatively safe, which meant none of the soldiers were ever killed; this was why, in a year-and-a-half of being with the intelligence section, DeWitt was never promoted (00:53:10:00) · However, the soldier did remain connected to the rest of the infantry and whenever the soldiers went out on a patrol, they had to carry a weapon (00:53:25:00) o While stationed in the Philippines, the twenty-year-old DeWitt ended up marrying a sixteen-year-old Filipino girl (00:53:44:00) § The girl’s father allowed DeWitt to marry his daughter only if DeWitt paid him fifty pesos (00:53:57:00) § Technically, none of the soldiers were supposed to marry any locals but DeWitt managed to convince a friend who agreed to dress up as a minister to perform the “wedding” (00:54:12:00) § DeWitt was with his new wife for about two weeks before he accumulated enough points to transfer home (00:54:20:00) · Before DeWitt transferred home, another soldier offered DeWitt seventy-five pesos for his “wife” (00:54:30:00) § Once it became time for DeWitt to rotate home, he was boarding a ship when someone told him some people were asking for him; as it turned out, it was his “wife” and her father, who was carrying a knife (00:54:51:00) �· · · · · · The girl figured DeWitt was going to bring her back to the United States but he had no way of doing so (00:55:16:00) The Japanese did not officially surrender until DeWitt had already left the Philippines; the official announcement came while DeWitt was still aboard the ship carrying from the Philippines back to the United States (00:55:45:00) One of the times DeWitt went AWOL, it was in Australia (00:57:02:00) o The civilians in the nearby town had come to like the soldiers and the soldiers would often go into the town to drink (00:57:09:00) o One time, one of the other soldiers ordered thirty beers, which caused DeWitt to question him, say they could not drink that many beers (00:57:30:00) § However, when the waitress brought the beers out, there were only twenty eight, so the soldier took the tray and threw it, and all the beers, against the wall (00:57:53:00) Once DeWitt returned to the United States, he went home and it was not more than three weeks before his father was pressuring him to get a job (00:58:17:00) o Initially, DeWitt briefly worked at a paper mill, then spent three months working at the local post office, then another company for three months, before settling in at Kalamazoo Paper, where he stayed for fifty-two years (00:58:42:00) Looking back, DeWitt would like to think that his time serving in the Army helped educate him, including taking some correspondence courses while he was deployed to the Pacific (00:59:21:00) o However, being in the infantry did not afford DeWitt too much time to think about getting an education (01:00:06:00) At one point, while DeWitt and the other soldiers were AWOL in Australia, someone mentioned see MPs and DeWitt, being by himself, took off running through the local neighborhood to get away (01:00:49:00) o Eventually, DeWitt hid in a women’s bathroom; as he hid, he told a nearby women not to tell the MPs where he was hiding but when the MPs did come up, the woman told them DeWitt was hiding in the women’s bathroom (01:01:12:00) o When the MPs took DeWitt back to the hotel to gather his belongings, around fifty people came up telling the MPs to let DeWitt go because he had been nice to them at some point (01:01:29:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource DeWitt, Arthur (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DeWitt, Arthur Description An account of the resource Arthur DeWitt was born in Lapeer, Michigan in 1921, and grew up in Kalamazoo. While a senior in high school, DeWitt joined the Michigan National Guard, and his unit, Company C of the 126th Infantry Regiment, was called up soon afterward, causing him to miss most of his senior year. His unit was sent to Camp Beauregard, Louisiana for training, and he became a BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) gunner. In the spring of 1942, his division was sent first to Boston, then to San Francisco, and from there to Australia. They were shipped to New Guinea in September, and participating in the fighting around Buna. One of the few men in his company to get through Buna unscathed and healthy, he came down with malaria soon after returning to Australia, and was reassigned to the 41st Division. He served with the 41st on Biak, and then on Mindanao in the Philippines, and was rotated home shortly before the end of the war. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-04-08 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DeWittA0236V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/54ab2b04cd154c3b44907388a1bd73e3.mp4 2c6b73d59010374570ef72bff2dac2bd https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/afe8728b09446016fe5a0bfc6a44e8d3.pdf eb200edc591377e708de5315bec2f1b5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Al DeWitt (01:00:02) (00:19) Background Information • • • • Al was born in Grand Rapids, MI in April His stepfather was in the gladiola business, but they lost their farm and had to move Al stopped going to high school so he could help his family with money He joined the Air Corps in 1942 and went into the cadets (04:55) Training • • • • Al was assigned to be a glider pilot in Roswell, NM He was sent to Walker Air Force Base and had civilian pilot training Al took a test not knowing what it was and then found out he had an IQ of 143 They had to do KPs even though they had too high of a rank because there wasn’t anyone else to do it (14:48) After Glider School • • • • • • • • • He was sent to Fresno, CA and then to Sioux Falls, SD for radio school Al didn’t want to go through basic training again, so he wrote a letter to a general to get back into cadets The general approved his request and he was sent to Denver, CO He didn’t do much in Denver, but he met some soldiers coming back from the war in Europe Al was then sent back to Santa Ana, CA and they let him pick up where he left of in cadet school He was sent to King City, CA to fly Stearmans and then sent to Drew Field in Tampa, FL In Tampa he got the badge for the 8th Air Force and flew P-51s Next he was sent to Bakersfield He then got out of the Air force and went home to start a family and buy a farm (31:40) Korean War • • • • • • In 1951 Al got called back into service because the Korean war He spent another 21 months in the Air Force Al was first sent to Roswell, NM where he was a test pilot He flew AT-6s and would sometimes bring people up to do acrobatics In December he was sent to Rapid City where they did training flights Al was a B-36 crew member �• • • • On one occasion an engine caught fire and they had to make an emergency landing in a field The B-36 was a large plane with 6 prop engines and 4 jet engines They simulated electronic bombings Al would fly over Russia at a very high altitude and the Russians didn’t have anything that could go that high (57:35) Discharge • • • Al left the Air Force in 1953 He Farmed in Allendale, MI The Air Force gave him discipline and made him strong � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dewitt, Al (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dewitt, Al Description An account of the resource Al Dewitt was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan and joined the Army Air Corps in 1942. Al was assigned to be a glider pilot and received his glider wings. He then trained as a fighter pilot but remained based in the US. He became a farmer after the war, but was called back into duty for 21 months during the Korean War. He was first a test pilot for the AT-6 and then was put on a B-36 crew. They did training runs and went over Russia at high altitudes, and Al survived a particularly dangerous crash landing. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings United States. Army. Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-08-07 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DeWittAl Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives