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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e93c0f48797afe605c2f3f4a639d63ad.mp4
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Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
World War II
Raymond Fischer
Interview Length: (01:17:03:00)
Pre-enlistment & Training / Deployment (00:00:27:00)
Born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on November 27, 1924 (00:00:27:00)
Fischer’s father was a tool maker and during the hard times, i.e. strikes, he worked for the
railroads (00:00:42:00)
o His father managed to find work even through the Great Depression; he even
received awards from the military for the best production and the longest work
period without a breakdown (00:01:05:00)
Fischer went to school through the twelfth grade and then went to junior college; he
graduated from Greenville High School, but because he finished in February, Fischer
never went through the graduation ceremony (00:01:35:00)
Fischer eventually worked on a two hundred and twenty acre farm raising beans;
however, in August and September, when they were supposed to harvest the beans, he
was unavailable (00:02:04:00)
o The government said that they needed him, so he ended up going to Fort Custer in
Kalamazoo, Michigan and enlisted into the military in 1943 (00:02:27:00)
o Greenville, the town where Fischer lived, had a factory that produced gliders and
he worked there on a second shift; he worked on the farm in the morning and then
in the factory until midnight (00:02:52:00)
o Fischer’s father owned farm where Fischer worked; it was originally Fischer’s
grandfather’s farm, but it came to be owned by his son (00:03:16:00)
o Fischer tried to get a deferment but the government denied him and never gave
him a reason why (00:03:38:00)
He had a younger brother, but he was born in 1940, so he could not work
on the farm (00:03:56:00)
Fischer’s parents had also separated, which meant Fischer was essentially
on his own (00:04:04:00)
Very little happened when Fischer went to Fort Custer; he got acquainted with everybody
in the barracks and got his towel and toothbrush but he does not remember much after
that (00:04:23:00)
After Fort Custer, Fischer went home for a short visit then went to Camp Gruber,
Oklahoma for basic training (00:04:44:00)
o Camp Gruber was like any other Army base of the period; the barracks were on
stilts and although there were garbage cans everywhere, there were not a lot of
flies (00:05:04:00)
o The men had to make their beds to the point that a coin would bounce on top of
them (00:05:43:00)
�
o The men received some weapons training, but the training they received the most
of was crawling on their belly while people fired over their heads to make sure
that the men stayed down (00:05:58:00)
o Fischer followed all the orders he received (00:06:20:00)
After the war, Fischer went to Fort Hood, Texas and trained soldiers in the use of
mortars, sanitation and other duties (00:06:34:00)
Basic training last for three months and after the training, Fischer went home on furlough
then went back to the main base (00:06:58:00)
The men eventually ended up at Camp Phillips, Kansas just before they went overseas
and the camp was nothing to write about; the buildings were nothing more than tar paper
shacks (00:07:33:00)
o Fischer does not recall sleeping in bunks at the camp; the men just slept on the
floor (00:07:52:00)
After Camp Phillips, Fischer and his unit sailed overseas from New York City, although
he does not recall what type of ship it was or how large the ship was (00:08:19:00)
o He does remember soldiers singing a song as they sailed over to England
(00:08:33:00)
o When they arrived in England, the English had set up tents for the men to sleep
in; while in England, the damp weather caused Fischer to have to go to the
bathroom at night more than he did in the States (00:09:12:00)
Fischer arrived in England in April (00:09:46:00)
o While on the voyage over to England, the convoy Fischer’s ship was a part of
encountered very bad weather; at one point, they could not see the ship next to
them because the waves were so high (00:09:55:00)
One man was smoking a pipe and he ended up getting seasick; the weather
did not bother Fischer but he did not like it (00:10:04:00)
o They did not have any U-Boat threats on the voyage; they had ships all around
them and if one was attacked, Fischer did not know about it (00:10:28:00)
o Except for the weather, as far as Fischer knew, the voyage to England went
smoothly (00:10:45:00)
o The men disembarked in Liverpool, England and ended up camping outside a
small village that was a suburb of Liverpool (00:10:55:00)
The men were able to get out of their camp every once-in-awhile but not
very often (00:11:36:00)
Before they arrived in England, the men had been assigned to the 79th Infantry Division
(00:11:47:00)
D-Day / Combat (00:12:06:00)
On D-Day, the men were up early in the morning to get onto the boats; there were thick
ropes that the men had to climb down to get into the flat-bottomed land craft [note: the
79th Division landed on Utah Beach shortly after D-Day, but not on June 6]
(00:12:06:00)
o Fischer was part of the second wave and Fischer does not know how it happened,
but his captain allowed him to be with the kitchen group; some of the company
was already on the beach when Fischer landed (00:12:41:00)
�
o The Germans had strung barbed wire and large “Xs” across the beach as obstacles
that the men had to go around (00:12:58:00)
o The men did not make more than a half mile from the beach and they stayed in
their positions until July 3rd [note: by July 3, US forces had advanced well
beyond he original D-Day beaches and had taken Cherbourg--the July 3 attacks
were part of a major push south and Fischer's unit likely had been in position for
some time], when they made an attack and all “heck broke loose” (00:13:12:00)
Fischer stayed mostly in the same position until July 3rd; they made some
patrols and some of the captains leading those patrols died because of
booby-traps (00:14:10:00)
Fischer just happened to land with the cooks; he did not actually work
with the cooks (00:14:30:00)
Starting on July 3rd, Fischer’s unit began advancing and fighting against German
fortifications (00:14:38:00)
o The terrain the were advancing through was swampy; at on point, water was up to
Fischer’s chest and when he bent forward, the bottom of his helmet was just
barely above water (00:14:56:00)
Because German machine gun fire was just over his head, Fischer kept his
head as low as he could (00:15:08:00)
When they left the swamp, Fischer crawled on his stomach while the man
in front of him went on his hands and knees and he ended up getting shot
(00:15:15:00)
The men were not supposed to stop to help any wounded men, so
they left the man behind (00:15:26:00)
The men kept moving forward and that night, the Army brought in the
men’s sleeping bags (00:15:46:00)
o Every night, the men were expected to keep advancing and they did
(00:16:01:00)
o At the time, Fischer’s company was taking a large number of casualties; there was
replacement after replacement in the company (00:16:12:00)
One soldier was from New York, with a family, and he was leaning up
against a tree while up head, the Americans could not advance because the
Germans had dug a ditch (00:16:19:00)
The men was telling Fischer about his family when he was shot and
Fischer went down closest to the ground as he could; the man was a
replacement, so he did not know to duck (00:16:56:00)
Fischer told the replacements that whenever they were going to
attack, they should stay out of the line of tracers; one soldier did
not follow the orders and when they attacked the pillbox, he was
shot (00:17:14:00)
o The men could not use tanks while fighting in the hedgerows because they were
vulnerable once their undersides were exposed; meanwhile, the Germans set their
sights so mortar shells would land just under the tanks and explode (00:17:54:00)
One time, Fischer was in a hedgerow when mortar shells began dropping
in a line; Fischer reasoned the next round would land near him, so he
�
moved, and sure enough, the next round landed where he had just been
standing (00:18:15:00)
o Another time, Fischer was in a field about one hundred yards away from the
Germans when they started firing at him at the same time his company was
coming over the hedgerow; the company turned around and Fischer did not have
contact with them for the rest of the day, that night, or the next day (00:18:45:00)
Finally, the following night, Fischer crawled on his stomach to the
hedgerow, which he followed back to the road (00:19:15:00)
Fischer followed the road to a farmhouse that had a dog who barked at
him; after awhile, he decided that was not a good place to be, so he
continued down the road, got some leaves, laid his gun down and laid
himself down on his raincoat (00:19:27:00)
He continued on the next day and found his own company (00:20:01:00)
While he was waiting, Fischer was sitting on the ground listening as
British soldiers talked about how American uniforms made it easy for
their wallets to fall out; Fischer stood up and sure enough, his wallet was
on the ground (00:20:06:00)
Finally, some artillerymen decided to get Fischer back to his company
(00:20:44:00)
When he got back to his company, Fischer wanted to be on one side of a
hedgerow because on the other side as a three man outpost, which meant
less sleep; however, a sergeant would not allow it and he put Fischer on
the outpost (00:20:58:00)
That night, a German mortar round hit Fischer’s old foxhole on the
other side of the hedgerow, so the sergeant, who was trying to spite
Fischer, ended up saving his life (00:21:23:00)
o After July, the men were on the move and fighting (00:21:46:00)
On occasion, the men took over a town and the soldiers in the town were
Polish men in German uniforms, meaning they surrendered (00:22:20:00)
One time, Fischer was ordered to carry the anti-tank grenades, which he
did; at one point, the men went into a town and a German vehicle was
escaping, so someone grabbed Fischer’s weapons to attack (00:22:33:00)
Somehow, the pins on the rest of the rifle grenades were pulled and
Fischer continued to carry them around unawares (00:23:04:00)
In September, the men received new shoes and when he set down
the grenades, Fischer noticed there were not pins in the grenades,
so he went and asked his captain what he should do; the captain
recoiled away and told Fischer to bury them (00:23:16:00)
So Fischer went over to a tree on the downward slope of a hill, dug
a hole, and buried the grenades (00:23:41:00)
As the men went through France, they discovered the French women liked chocolate and
silk stockings (00:24:12:00)
The sewers ran right alone the streets and some places, there were stockyards right next
to the house; to keep the houses somewhat clean, the French wore wooden clogs with
slippers on the inside while they were outside and just the slippers whenever they were
inside their house (00:24:22:00)
�
While advancing across France, the Army would not allow the soldiers to go into Paris
because they were not in the proper uniforms; however, Fischer did end up seeing the
World War I trenches outside of Paris (00:25:22:00)
During the advance, the men did not move into Belgium until the end of October /
beginning of November (00:26:12:00)
o There was a big push against the Germans in the sector and the Army wanted the
79th involved, so they moved the division up there (00:26:18:00)
During the fighting in the hedgerows, the men were told not to drink the water because it
could be poisoned; the soldiers had gas cans full of hard ciders and the French had fiftyfive gallon drums full of the cider (00:26:39:00)
o One man drank too much of the cider and ended up charging across the river,
although thankfully, the Germans had left; behind them, the Germans left cognac
and other liquor underneath their beds in wire-mesh baskets (00:27:03:00)
In September, Fischer’s unit was relieved by fresh troops and they received a box with
food inside it; as they sat down to eat, the unit was called to re-enforce soldiers on a hill
Fischer’s unit had already taken (00:27:39:00)
o On the approach to the hill, the unit was hit with machine gun fire, but they still
had another fifty yards to go; the men made it through the machine gun fire by
running in spurts because they had figured out when the German gunners would
stop firing to rest (00:28:28:00)
o The men who had been on the hill left everything behind, including a bazooka;
they heard the tanks coming and they did not want to face them (00:29:03:00)
However, Fischer’s unit did not know there were tanks in the area until it
became dark (00:29:19:00)
o The unit stayed on the hill and held out until the German’s retreated; the tanks
never attacked but if they had, they would have buried the Americans alive
(00:29:37:00)
One time, Fischer was stationed in an outpost and the Americans were lobbing artillery
over their heads; the men could hear the shells whistling overhead (00:30:06:00)
o The colonel decided to keep Fischer busy by giving him a riddle involving an
apple seller and how many apples he had after he sold a certain amount; about
five minutes later, Fischer answered by determining what was possible
(00:30:30:00)
By the time they reached September, there was a small core of the Fischer’s company
that had a lot of experience; only ten to twenty percent of the men were from the original
company (00:31:59:00)
o The rest of the men in company were replacements and if the replacements
survived the combat, then they became better soldiers (00:32:06:00)
The men only received a break from combat for a week; they were told the Red Cross
had coffee and donuts and were told to bring their money, something Fischer thought was
pretty low (00:32:46:00)
o Fischer never went but that was what he was told (00:33:10:00)
During October, Fischer’s unit remained on the hill they had helped recapture from the
Germans in September (00:33:31:00)
�
o There were trenches zigzagged on the hill, as well as a pillbox that the Germans
were supposed to occupy, but instead they simply occupied a town at the base of
the hill (00:34:16:00)
o When the Americans attacked, the Germans caught the Americans in machine gun
cross-fire; when the attack did not advance, tanks were called in and the infantry
ordered to follow them (00:34:34:00)
One of the tank drivers became jittery and ended up going in reverse,
running over some of the infantry who had gotten behind it (00:35:03:00)
Fischer had not seen the tank move, so he did not get out of the trench,
meaning he survived (00:35:24:00)
o They moved the original tank and brought in fresh ones a couple of hours later;
the driver put the tank into high gear, the infantry followed behind, and the
Germans retreated (00:35:38:00)
As they were advancing across France, the men tended to walk (00:35:58:00)
On another occasion, Fischer’s unit advanced up another hill that had been pounded with
artillery; at the top of the hill, the men found the German lunch buckets (00:36:28:00)
o What the Germans had to eat makes Fischer wonder; the Americans were
supplied with the best food, although their water was not always the best
(00:36:31:00)
One time, there was muddy water in his foxhole and Fischer scoped it into
his canteen, put a filtration pill in, shook the canteen, let it sit for a minute,
then drank it (00:36:53:00)
o The Germans had bread and sausage, but not any mustard, ketchup, or peanut
butter to put on it (00:37:16:00)
The Russians were in even worse condition; they had to wrap paper
around their legs to keep warm (00:37:27:00)
Eventually, Fischer’s division moved into Belgium (00:38:07:00)
o Along the way, Fischer was able to go into the French Maginot Line; he saw the
bunks where the men slept and the multitude of weapons in the line, including
larger guns and machine guns (00:38:11:00)
Instead of attacking the line, the Germans simply went around it
(00:38:37:00)
o When Fischer’s unit arrived with tanks, Americans had already occupied the line;
the Germans had not expect the fortifications to be taken quickly but the German
soldiers occupying it surrendered anyway (00:38:49:00)
In November and December, the division moved back into France then into the southern
part of Germany (00:39:22:00)
Patrol and Capture (00:39:37:00)
While in Germany, the unit came across a town that was on fire; still, some of the
buildings were not on fire, so the men occupied them and were thankful for a roof over
their head (00:39:37:00)
o However, just as they were getting ready to go to bed at midnight / one o’clock,
the men received orders to go out on a patrol, during which Fischer was captured
by the Germans (00:39:51:00)
�
o During the patrol, the Americans ran into a well-guarded German outpost, who
fired machine guns across the road, but not at waist height; when Fischer
wondered why, he realized the Germans had soldiers on the other side of the road
as well (00:40:34:00)
The Americans did not know there were Germans on both sides of the
road (00:41:03:00)
o When Fischer went away from the machine gun fire, he went near the corner of a
building and there were three Germans in front of him; one German stuck his rifle
in front of Fischer’s face and after Fischer knocked the rifle away, the other two
Germans grabbed him (00:41:09:00)
o The Germans took Fischer to their commander, who asked if he was hungry or
cold; Fischer replied no to both and he was eventually sent into a church basement
with some other German soldiers who were lying around (00:41:34:00)
o Fischer eventually talked to a German colonel and was sent into a fruit seller with
a German soldier who had been to New York and could speak English; the soldier
said that he did not like New York and he was upset that after five years in the
German Navy, he had been transferred to the Army (00:42:23:00)
o Eventually, other prisoners came to the church and the Germans ended up with
seven total, including the lieutenant in-charge of the patrol, a man named Duncan;
Fischer knew the lieutenant since training but most of the other prisoners were
replacements (00:42:57:00)
The lieutenant originally began as a private like Fischer; he received the
promotion because of the number of casualties the unit took (00:43:34:00)
Fischer was only promoted to sergeant because he was one of the few
experienced soldiers left in the unit (00:44:19:00)
o During the patrol, Fischer was a squad leader and when they went out, they
searched for the enemy, but cautiously; when they heard a noise, they took notes
(00:44:40:00)
o The lieutenant had orders to make contact with friends and as they were
patrolling, he heard a sound and asked “who it was and to come forward and be
recognized”; after the third time, a German “burp gun” responded (00:44:57:00)
o While in the field, the men did not see many road signs because they were moving
through back-roads (00:45:53:00)
One time, the men were set to move across a road and take the other field when they
discovered Germans tanks in the field (00:45:59:00)
o The Germans made quite a commotion when they saw the Americans; they were
so shocked the Americans would attack the field, they ended up leaving
(00:46:13:00)
The Army always wanted to attack in the morning, which was a bad decision; the men
wanted to attack in the evening when the Germans were preparing to go to sleep
(00:46:29:00)
o At night, the Germans had “Bed-Check Charlie”, a single engine plane that would
fly around and look for any source of light; once he found a source of light,
German bombers would bomb the area (00:46:49:00)
�
Fischer once crossed a bridge while a German plane was dropping a
bomb; the bomb hit the bank of the river and missed the men by fifty
yards (00:47:02:00)
o The Germans did not normally attack the Americans at night (00:47:33:00)
On one occasion, Fischer saw a French woman dressed in German uniform and other
times, he saw Russian women with machine guns on their shoulders directing traffic
(00:47:36:00)
POW / End of the War (00:48:14:00)
Fischer never discussed being captured with Duncan (00:48:14:00)
o In the morning after being captured, Fischer and the other prisoners were taken
out of the church and marched away; as they left the church, some German antiaircraft gunners yelled that it was a long way to Berlin and the Americans could
not respond (00:48:27:00)
o As they marched away from the church, something passed through Fischer’s
system; whether it was relief or something else, he does not know but he was no
longer on the front lines (00:48:58:00)
One man even shot himself in the foot while the unit was away from the
front so he would not have to go back (00:49:26:00)
o Fischer had seen other men try to surrender to the Germans (00:49:56:00)
On a patrol before the advance in July, Fischer went across a river; on the
opposite bank was open field with some mounds of dirt (00:50:00:00)
When the Germans started firing, Fischer hit the ground and stayed there
until he heard friendly forces moving behind him; he became scared
because if the Americans attacked, he was going to right in the middle of
the fighting, so he decided to get out of there (00:50:30:00)
In short spurts, he finally made it back to the unit (00:50:57:00)
While they were pinned down, one of the men put up his hands and went
right for the Germans; Fischer never saw him again and he does not know
what happened to him (00:51:22:00)
The prisoners marched about twenty miles a day before arriving at a jailhouse, where
they ate pea soup out of their helmets; they continued marching from place to place
before going to a prison camp with all nationalities (00:51:51:00)
o The Germans had the prisoners separated by nationality and from there, the men
marched some more before getting into box cars for three days; while in the box
cars, the men only received a slice of bread and some blood sausage as their entire
ration (00:52:31:00)
From the box cars, the men did more marching to another prison cam p and after about a
week, thy finally reached the main POW camp (00:53:10:00)
The men received information one night as to the location of the American troops and the
location of the Russian troops; the Americans stood still while the Russian soldiers came
in (00:53:29:00)
o One day, all the German women and children went into the American line and the
next morning, they heard gunfire on the American side; the men decided the
�
Germans were gone, so they went through the fence and into the village
(00:53:56:00)
o There was baker in the village and when the soldiers asked if they could each take
a loaf, he agreed; however, when the Russians came into the village, they took the
pigs and where ever they went, they ate everything (00:54:29:00)
The Germans placed Fischer in the POW camp Stalag IV-B and all the men taken
prisoner with Fischer stayed together (00:55:10:00)
o Once in the camp, the men were sprayed and deloused before moving into their
barracks; at first, the men slept on the floor and each barrack received on brick of
compressed coal an hour (00:55:28:00)
o One of the Germans told Fischer not to drink the water because it would give him
diarrhea (00:55:50:00)
o When they were finally in the permanent camp, the men received rations,
normally seven or eight small potatoes, watery soup and a slice of bread
(00:56:05:00)
o There were different nationalities in the camp, including a Frenchman who knew
how to fight with his feet; the other men could not even get close to him
(00:56:41:00)
One time, the Frenchman and another man fought over potato skins; the
Frenchman peeled his potatoes with the belief he would eat the skins later
and the other man assumed the Frenchman did not want the skins
(00:56:53:00)
o Fischer does not know of any Russian prisoners in the camp; the only Russians
the men saw was after they were “captured” by the Russians (00:57:22:00)
Fischer was never properly released because the proper person was not
there to sign for either the Americans or the Russians (00:57:31:00)
Instead, the men went off on bicycles they had slowly built; four or five
guys headed for the American lines and Germans told them where the
American lines were (00:57:50:00)
One man eventually chickened out and returned to the Russians; once the
men go to the American lines and said they were Americans, they and
their bikes were carried across a bridge (00:58:20:00)
When the prisoners arrived in one city, they went into a hall that was not destroyed,
inside of which was a counter with Germans behind it; the men were told to take off their
watches and jewelry and give the Germans their wallets (00:58:53:00)
o The Germans dumped out the scrip into a pile while they took pictures of the
prisoners; once the pictures were done, the Germans returned to now empty
wallets and the prisoners’ dog-tags (00:59:25:00)
o Prior to that, the prisoners were taken into a house and ordered to take off their
packs by a German who asked if it was fair that he kept half their cigarettes and
gave the other half back; most of the men did not have cigarettes but those who
did had theirs divided amongst everyone (00:59:43:00)
o Another time, the men were interviewed; each man went into the house
individually, where they were asked who their company commanders were
(01:00:24:00)
�
Fischer said they knew just as much about it as he did; the interviewer
continued, alternating between asking if Fischer wanted different
amenities, such as food and a place to sleep, and who his company
commander was (01:00:43:00)
Finally, the interviewer got out a book and traced Fischer’s deployment
history, from New York to England to France (01:01:02:00)
When he was captured, Fischer’s family was told he was missing in action and that was
it; he does not know if they received word that he was a prisoner of war (01:02:41:00)
While in the prison camp, one group had greater access to information and they would
tell the other prisoners where the troops were (01:03:42:00)
There were mounds of dirt in the camp that covered the potatoes and one time, one of the
potatoes fell off the wagon and when someone picked it up, the Germans shot him
(01:04:02:00)
o Another time, the men were out on wood detail, picking up sticks to burn, and
American airplanes strafed them; the men were marching and the pilots did not
know any better (01:04:30:00)
As far as Fischer is concerned, the German guards treated him fairly; however, from the
beginning of the war to the end, the guard’s viewpoint changed (01:05:21:00)
When the freed men met the Russians at a college, the Russians were guarding the
perimeter; when the Americans said they would bring back cognac, the guard let them
out (01:05:24:00)
o Although they never found any cognac, the men searched the town and Fischer
ended up getting some German money as a souvenir (01:05:41:00)
o While the men were on the main floor of a building, there were Russians upstairs
who came and saw them; one Russian had a sour look on his face but when he
discovered the men were American, his mood changed (01:06:02:00)
For some reason or another, the Russians did not like the English
(01:06:18:00)
In the first part of the POW camp, the men had to sleep on the floor, head to foot, with
around one hundred men in each barracks; in the second barracks, the men had straw
bunks to sleep in, which was a little bit better (01:06:42:00)
o The men had a bowel movement, but only once every three days and they had no
other recreation; they could not go out and play baseball for example
(01:07:29:00)
That he knows of, no one tried to escape from the camp (01:07:47:00)
o One time, after being interviewed in a house, Fischer and some others marched
away from it and he considered escaping then; however, he questioned where he
could go once he did escape, so he stayed (01:07:53:00)
o The Germans kept the men in suspense, never knowing where they were going, so
the men would follow orders better (01:08:43:00)
During combat, Fischer was never injured, even when anti-tank guns fired bursts into
trees the men were amongst (01:08:56:00)
Fischer never saw the 79th Division again (01:09:42:00)
o He and some other men eventually made it back to Liverpool by way of a rickety
airplane from France; from Liverpool, the men got on a boat for the return trip to
the United States (01:09:56:00)
�o He does not remember most of the parts of his return journey (01:10:49:00)
o The men landed in New York and immediately got on a train that brought Fischer
back to Michigan (01:11:20:00)
Post-Military Life (01:11:38:00)
Fischer’s official discharge from the Army occurred in Houston, Texas (01:11:38:00)
o Once he got home to Grand Rapids, Fischer applied for unemployment and began
looking for jobs in the area, including at General Motors (01:12:35:00)
o He eventually found a job working at a machine shop, where he worked until
receiving a call from General Motors (01:12:51:00)
He apprenticed in tool- and dye-maker and eventually started working at a
tool- and dye- business (01:13:07:00)
o He went back to General Motors when their workers went on strike, applied for a
job, and was hired to work on the second shift; they decided the nurse would
examine him the next day (01:13:24:00)
However, the nurse came out of the door and saw him, which must made
an impression on her (01:13:48:00)
While he was an apprentice, Fischer got a steel chip in his eye and when
the doctor went to take it out, he froze the eye; as it turned out, there were
multiple pieces to take out (01:14:02:00)
When his mother asked what happened, Fischer explained it and
she must have turned up a hornets nest because when Fischer went
back to General Motors, the nurse saw him and told the doctor
about Fischer; the doctor asked if Fischer had a medical problem
and they discussed the incident with Fischer’s eye (01:14:26:00)
o Fischer ended up not getting the job with General Motors and he eventually got
another job working at a tool and dye shop (01:15:14:00)
In the service, Fischer discovered he could not trust anyone, he had to analyze a situation
for himself; he also discovered that everyone had their own opinion and there was no
point in arguing with them (01:16:14:00)
o If they did not have to agree, but Fischer would tell his opinion and that would be
the end of it (01:16:38:00)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FischerR2
Title
A name given to the resource
Fischer, Raymond (Interview outline and video), 2010
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Fischer, Raymond
Description
An account of the resource
Raymond Fischer was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1924 and after attending junior college and working in Greenville, Michigan, Fischer joined the military. Following training in Oklahoma, Fischer shipped overseas and as part of the 79th Infantry Division, participated in the Normandy campaign, fighting through swamps and hedgerows, in the advance across France and fighting along the German frontier in the fall of 1944. While on patrol at that time, he was taken prisoner, and he spent the rest of the war in a prison camp until Russian soldiers arrived. He and some other men left the camp on bicycles and made their way back to the American lines, and he was sent home from there.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2010-07-13
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/80a6bae2160daf86edc7607f7bb76c0d.mp4
1e68f20a4814cd2ca30252b2d946318f
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/84449272bd98cdc9d53c7e601db95cda.pdf
62f9c36437810bedd06e3796ce01d30b
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Ray Fischer
(01:33:15)
(00:01) Background Information
•
•
•
•
Ray was born in Grand Rapids, MI on November 27, 1924
He moved to a farm in Greenville, MI
After high school he got a job making glider planes for the war
Ray also did farm work and tried to get a deferment from the draft, but was denied
(06:53) Training
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
He was drafted and sent to Fort Custer, MI
Ray was sent to Camp Gruber, OK for basic training
Basic training lasted 3 months from October of 43
He did small arms training and was able to go to town a few times
Ray was then sent to Camp Phillips, KS for 1 month to prepare to go overseas
They had horrible barracks
He was sent to New York by train for deployment
(18:29) Deployment
•
•
•
•
Ray was in a large convoy and went through some rough waters
There was an entertainer on board
They landed in Liverpool, England
Ray stayed in a tent from April until May
(26:10) France
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
They went to France and had to wade through the water to get to shore
He was in the 2nd wave as an infantryman [The 79th Division landed on Utah Beach on
June 12, six days after D-Day, so “2nd wave” reference is unclear]
They were under machine gun fire and had to take cover
Ray was on the beach until July 3, 1944 [By this time, the division had participated in the
attack on Cherbourg, and then moved to the west coast of the Cotentin Peninsula, which
presumably is where the beach in question was.]
He had to go on patrols of the beach
On July 3rd they made an attack
He was in the 79th Division, 315th Infantry Regiment, F company
�(37: 25) Moving Through the Countryside
•
•
•
•
•
•
They moved south of Paris and saw trenches from WWI
His division was called to Belgium, but the siege [of Bastogne] was over by the time they
got there
Ray was sent to attack a pillbox, but was shot at by friendly fire
They were told not to drink water from wells because the Germans were poisoning them
Some of the soldiers filled gas cans with hard cider
Ray spent June through December in France
(49:17) Captured in Germany
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
They went into the a small German town, which was on fire
Their sergeant was shot and Ray was taken prisoner
He was taken to the basement of a church and guarded by a German soldier
7 Americans were taken prisoner total
They went from a house to a barn and were interrogated one at a time
The Germans had information about where he trained and where he had been during the
war
He was sent down a gravel road and put into a jailhouse
Ray was put in a boxcar for 3 days with no water and then moved to barracks
The barracks were called Stalag 4B and they had straw mattresses
They received 1 slice of bread, some small potatoes, and a small can of soup
Someone would come in at night and tell them where the troops were
One day they went through a hole in the fence and got some bread from a nearby bakery
(1:02:55) Liberated
•
•
A few days later they were liberated by the Russians, but had to wait to be released by the
Americans
They got sick of waiting so Ray and 2 others put together some bikes and rode 30 miles
to the Americans
(1:17:40) Discharge
•
•
•
•
Ray went to Le Havre, France and boarded a ship to the US
The military didn’t always tell them the truth about what was going on
He was proud that he never retreated during the war
After the war he went to work for GM
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FischerR1
Title
A name given to the resource
Fischer, Ray (Interview outline and video), 2003
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Fischer, Ray
Description
An account of the resource
Ray Fischer was born on November 27, 1924 and grew up on a farm in Greenville, Michigan. After high school he was drafted and trained in Oklahoma as an infantryman. He served in the 79th Division and fought in Normandy, France, Belgium and Germany. He was captured in Germany and spent a month in a prison camp before being liberated by the Russians.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer)
Collins, Carol (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Army
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2003-08-21
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9292fd083f04b0e0c9191cf72a83bbdc.mp4
65ff037b7fa144a5f18d8360226bf74c
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2e224f6eff56a5ac2b5a473ae0f65109.pdf
f7e98836d7e9897d44356364c5c0ab06
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: World War II
Interviewee name: Raymond Fink
Length of Interview: 47 minutes
Pre‐Enlistment (00:11)
•
Childhood (00:15)
o
•
Family (00:27)
o
•
Fink was born in what is now Kentwood, Michigan. (00:16)
Fink’s father was into farming and husbandry who owned his own land. (00:48)
Education (01:03)
o
Graduated from Berlin High School. (01:13) While he was still in 12th Grade he enlisted
with the U.S. Navy. (01:23) His mother picked up his diploma for him. (01:35)
o
As news of the war reached home, he did not pay much attention to what was going on.
(01:56)
Enlistment/Basic Training (01:58)
•
Why he joined (02:06)
o
•
He discusses that hearing about the conditions in the foxholes discouraged him from
joining the Army. Enlisting in the Navy during the summer of 1945 at the age of 17.
(02:14)
Where and what company he was with (02:45)
o
Fink was sent to Great Lakes, Illinois, where he was stationed with Company 693.
(02:50)
o
While there, he learned the rules, regulations, and basic know how of naval weapons.
(03:45) Fink mentions that he was assigned to work with 20‐mm guns. (04:33)
o
Describes one specific incident on Lake Michigan with weapons. (04:44)
o
Training consisted of 8 to 9 weeks of training. (05:18)
o
After serving at Great Lakes, Illinois, he took a leave of a few days to go home. (05:28)
Returning to Great Lakes afterwards he boarded a troop train for San Diego, California,
which took 4 to 5 days. Briefly describes what that experience entailed. (05:41)
�o
•
Before this trip he had not traveled outside of Michigan. (07:01)
Living conditions in San Diego (07:13)
o
While here for about a week, he heard news that that the A‐bomb had been dropped
over Nagasaki. Mentions that he was one of many soldiers to be picked for the invasion
force of Japan. (07:48)
o
Had jobs as a fireman and a mechanic in San Diego, with some previous book knowledge
gained from Great Lakes, Illinois. (08:32) As of August 15th, 1945 Fink was still waiting to
get shipped out when the Japanese had surrendered. (09:17) He was set in position to
replace overseas Navy men already stationed in the Pacific. (09:35)
Active Duty (09:48)
•
Background (10:20)
o Fink mentions that he went aboard a Navy attack transport, the APA [Onitia] loaded
with Navy men and some Marines. (10:13)
o Briefly describes their 13 day journey to Guam. (10:58)
•
While traveling, Fink mentions becoming seasick for 2 to 3 days of his trip there.
(11:12)
Briefly shares some memorable stories on the high seas. (11:42)
Guam (12:10)
o Pulling into harbor, Fink boarded a landing craft for shore. Landing in Guam during the
rainy season (12:42), many of the American troops weren’t prepared for the weather
conditions. (13:02)
o One particular story, Fink relates is finding water running through his tent and a skull of
some kind. Briefly describes this encounter. (13:17)
o While there, his assignment involved generator watching. (13:59) His job entailed
keeping the caterpillar‐diesel generators in operation. (14:05) Briefly describes one
funny encounter. (14:17)
o After that he got assigned to the naval operational base and worked as a boiler
operator. Describes his duties in some detail. (15:20)
o Fink mentions that upon his arrival many Japanese on Guam still had not surrendered.
(16:16) Often American Marines on patrol faced the dangers of Japanese snipers picking
them off. (16:30)
�
While living in [quanza] huts near a submarine base Guam Fink relates how a
Japanese soldier was stealing his laundry. (17:28)
To inform the Japanese that their country had surrendered, American soldiers
would drop leaflets into Japanese held areas and/or broadcast messages to
them telling them to surrender. What often was the case was that the Japanese
would not believe them and keep fighting. (19:15)
o For American families in particular, the death toll from American deaths because of
Japanese snipers was difficult. Fink mentions that he was based in Guam for 1‐year.
(19:49)
o Briefly mentions that Guam at the end of 1945 had been a staging ground for American
invasion forces on Japan. (20:53) Also mentions that Army vehicles were destroyed
after the war ended because they were no longer needed for the invasion of Japan.
(21:53)
o Over the course of his time in Guam, the 3rd Marine Division and some Navy Reserve
people were still stationed there until they were replaced. (22:35)
o Briefly describes his submarine experience in the Marinas Trench. (23:40)
•
Living conditions on Guam (26:10)
o The Red Cross hosted different events for the troops or else the troops would horse
around. (26:19)
o Briefly mentions the chain of command and who he reported too.(27:23)
o Fink at he kept up frequent contact with his family and friends. (27:47)
o Also held a job unloading mail and sorting it in the mailroom. Briefly describes his duties
here. (28:06)
o Also enjoyed playing cards, hiking, or traveling with friends. (30:10)
o Briefly mentions the story of him and a buddy who got lost in the jungle during a
typhoon with the constant fear of Japanese snipers sniping them. (31:27)
o In another story he discusses his experience encountering the 7th fleet. (32:11)
•
Returning home (33:09)
o A list was often published in a local newspaper sharing which naval ship personnel could
return home. (33:48)
�o Briefly discusses how the local Chamorros support of the Americans during Japanese
occupation were treated in Guam; the bombed out conditions of the local buildings and
the Pan‐American airport. (34:07)
o Left aboard the APA [Mackintower] for home. Briefly discusses some of his experiences
on the way home. (36:06)
o Upon anchoring in San Francisco harbor he boarded a train from there to Great Lakes,
IL. (37:47) From then on he was on inactive naval duty. (38:12)
After the service (38:21)
•
Adjusting to Home (38:31)
o
•
From here on out, his perspective changed and he entered an electrical school in
Chicago, Illinois. Afterwards he went and worked for Consumer’s Power. (38:41)
Personal Reflection (39:29)
o
Mentions how his perception and views of the world changed because of his time in the
service. (39:50)
o
Briefly discusses various trips around the world that he has made. (40:05) Among them
he discusses his trip to Russia in some detail. (42:20)
o
Also mentions a story of a German relative and his wartime experience in Leningrad
during the 2nd World War. (44:32)
o
End (46:43)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FinkR
Title
A name given to the resource
Fink, Raymond (Interview outline and video), 2009
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Fink, Raymond
Description
An account of the resource
Raymond Fink was a World War II veteran who served in the U.S. Navy Reserves from 1945 to 1946. In this account Fink discusses his pre-enlistment, enlistment and training, and his active duty while stationed out in the Pacific. Fink was stationed on Guam and describes living conditions there after the war.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Navy
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2009-04-14
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/47068c2b7dad0e9bcdabc9ac739018b0.mp4
620a54a7f765cbaae4b279894bc7cd94
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/eda209ae8bac8c15fd16f4c1b674c419.pdf
25cb378c48597c3de24fc3ef0e82fac1
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Rex Funnell
World War II
Total Time: 54:00
Childhood and Pre-Enlistment (00:01)
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
Born in Whitehall, Michigan in 1916
Father was a barber.
Graduated high school in 1933 at age 16 and worked at a grocery store.
Worked at the family meat market after his uncle had a stroke.
His cousin enlisted in the Air Corps near the beginning of the war.
He worked the midnight shift at the factory after the meat market.
Was drafted into the Army
Training (09:40)
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
Reported for training 10 days after being, on July 16th, 1943.
Was sworn in at Fort Custer, Michigan.
(10:35) Was then sent to Fort Bragg, North Carolina where he took basic training.
He was one of the older men at the camp.
Spent 6 months at Fort Bragg, and was then sent to Camp Gruber, Oklahoma
where they began training for a mule pack.
(15:45) He was then sent to Fort Sill, Oklahoma where he continued mule pack
training.
(17:00) In training, they had to learn everything there was to know about mules
and how to care for them.
They then went to Colorado, where they did some training, and then went to
California where they trained more.
(19:10) They were assigned to headquarters at this point, so they did not have to
participate in maneuvers.
(20:05) The Army then decided that they only needed one mule pack battalion, so
they were shipped to Fort Benning, Georgia and went through basic training
again.
(22:05) He was trained there to work in the message center, which controlled all
of the messages going in and out.
He was shipped out in December 1944.
Active Duty (24:05)
• He was sent to New York and then across the Atlantic on a converted cruise ship.
The weather was very rough on the way across. It took them around 14 days to
cross.
�• (27:10) They landed in Le Havre, France and stayed in a camp with pup tents for
around a month.
• (28:25) The were loaded into trucks and sent to a village in France near the
German border.
• (31:05) Their unit was involved in quite a bit of combat. He did not see much,
however, as he was in HQ most of the time.
• Most of the towns that they encountered were still intact, however the cities were
not.
• (35:05) As they moved forward through Germany, the fighting got less intense
because they were fighting older men and children.
• (36:30) Their unit went through Nuremburg, Augsburg, and Munich
• (37:35) Their infantry units liberated 2 concentration camps, one of which was in
Austria.
• (40:00) His unit ended up in Wels, Austria where they met the Russians.
• He was in Austria for around a month before he shipped home. He was shipped
back because his wife was seriously ill. He shipped from La Havre in France on a
victory ship to Boston, Massachusetts. He then went to Camp Atterbury, Indiana
where it took him 3 months to be discharged because of a hernia.
Post War (47:00)
•
•
Worked at a factory and then attended barber school in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Has stayed in some contact with the men in his unit, but most were from other
parts of the US so it was at times difficult.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FunnellR
Title
A name given to the resource
Funnell, Rex (Interview outline and video), 2009
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Funnell, Rex
Description
An account of the resource
Rex Funnell was born in Whitehall, Michigan and was drafted into the Army during World War II. He was trained initially to work with mules for mountain pack hauling, but his unit's function was changed so they didn't end up working with mules in combat. He worked in the message center for his unit during his time overseas. His unit was in France and Germany during the war.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Army
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2009-06-16
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/20ba62d98a10653477534fb6fdbbc982.mp4
53805c570323b7b527970796be6247bf
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0902c546327543f530d1902bdf6fe333.pdf
480cf8bd2a8bf537269f3e981befbc60
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Robert Fry
(00:55:58)
(00:40) Background Information
• Robert was born in 1970
• He was a specialist in the Army during Desert Storm
• Robert spent 2 years in Germany from 1988-1990 in the 8th Infantry Division
• He also spent 2 years in Kentucky from 1990-1992 with the 101st Airborne
(1:50) Boot Camp
• Robert enlisted when he was 18 years old after graduating high school
• He started boot camp in 1988 and thought it was fun, but very uniform
• There was a lot of training and physical work like doing push-ups and running
(2:40) Germany
• The original flight to Germany was delayed and the men were stranded in the
airport for 24 hours
(4:50) Medals
• Sharp Shooter
• Army Good Conduct Medal
• Overseas Service Ribbon for Germany
• Army Service Ribbon
• National Defense Service Ribbon
• Combat Infantry Badge
• South West Asia Service Medal
• Army Accommodation Medal
• Saudi Arabia/Kuwait Liberation Medal
(7:25) Entertainment
• Robert often made phone calls to friends and family back home
• The men watched movies, played pool, and played cards in the recreational center
(8:00) End of Time in the Service
• Robert’s service ended two weeks early in June of 1992
• He was very happy to be done, but knew he would miss all the friends he had
made
(8:30) Current Employment
• Robert is now working in armed security and spends time at the VFW
(9:10) College
�•
Robert took advantage of the GI Bill to attend college at Kendall Valley and
earned his associates in Security
(11:30) Specialist
• A Specialist is one rank above Private First Class
• It is a junior non-commissioned officer and right below corporal and sergeant
• There is a high level of responsibility; Robert was running his own fire team
• There are 7 people per fire team and 2 fire teams per squad
• A platoon is made of 4 squads
• They were border patrolling in Iraq
• It was 140 degrees during the day and 90 degrees at night
• They did most of their work at night
• Also they went on search and destroy missions looking for bunkers and bunker
complexes
(15:44) Mechanized Infantry in Germany
• They worked on very old vehicles from the 50s
• They had to fix them and keep them up and running so they could be used to train
with
(19:00) Thoughts on the Armed Service
• Robert backs the military 100% and supports the Iraq War
• He believes that the war needs to move at a quicker pace and things are currently
moving to slow
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FryR
Title
A name given to the resource
Fry, Robert (Interview outline and video), 2004
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Fry, Robert
Description
An account of the resource
Robert Fry was born in 1970 and enlisted in the Army shortly after graduating high school in 1988. He spent his time training in Kentucky and enjoyed boot camp. Robert earned many medals and ribbons during his time serving in Germany and in the Middle East. Robert led a fire team during Desert Storm, working on border patrol and search and destroy missions. After serving in the Army, Robert earned his associates in Security and is currently employed in armed security.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Roberts, Lauren (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Air Force
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2004-02-02
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c07e076589afd0e53ed45dba8bfea9b1.m4v
7fbf8940238f2e49624c5186b9c9a8cc
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e5a785349a593fbb37e7c51ab35aa293.pdf
20d34f87559dcc424404c8d79b4c36ce
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Name of War: World War II
Interviewee’s Name: John Frens
Length of Interview: 1hour 23mins.
Pre-Enlistment (00:05)
Childhood and Education (00:10)
o Frens was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on April 12, 1923. (00:13)
o Attended Grand Rapids Christian High and went on to attend Calvin College upon
his mother and sisters’ request to do so and stay out of the war as long as possible.
(00:31)
o The day Pearl Harbor was attacked his thoughts turned to the relatives who had
already joined the armed forces. At about this time in 1941 he was 18. (01:02)
Enlistment/Basic Training (01:33)
Why he joined up (01:52)
o Caught up in the patriotic fervor, Frens joined up and went through the selective
service process in Grand Rapids in November, 1941 [1942]. Was informed just
how long he was to wait. (02:27)
o After waiting three weeks, he reported to Chicago, Illinois where he was to join a
unit of the Army Air Force. (02:53)
Where he went (03:35)
o Officially sworn into the service on Dec. 11, 1942 Frens didn’t leave for Chicago
until late February, 1943. (03:41)
o Upon arriving in Chicago, Frens went to a warehouse where they put him and
others aboard a train with no disclosed location given. He ended up in Miami
Beach, Florida where the Army Air Corps had a base prepped for their training.
(04:07)
o Miami Beach, FL training (05:12)
�
Living arrangements consisted of staying in an apartment on the 7th floor
of a building with a group of men. Their days were full of marching and
training. Describes what this was like. (05:30)
While here, they were issued uniforms, however, the men serving there
knew that they were going to be staying there for much longer. They
continued to march and train with no idea where each one of them was
going. (06:17) Was soon shipped off to college. (07:15)
o Columbus, OH (07:23)
While here, Frens attended Capital University in an affluent part of
Columbus. (07:30)
While here for a two month period, Frens describes how classes here
compared to attending Calvin College. (07:43)
Was stationed here with men from around the U.S.A. One in particular
was Hank Fileastra from New Jersey who he came to become very good
friends with. Upon finishing school here he was sent to Nashville,
Tennessee (08:55)
o Nashville, TN (10:09)
The classification center back in the 1940s was the place trainees like him
became pilots and received their classifications and were placed where
they were needed. (10:20)
Took a round of tests in navigation, bombadiering, piloting, and other
duties. He did not make it through the first line and so he had the option of
going to navigational school instead. (10:40)
o Fort Myers, FL (11:19)
Before going to navigational school he was sidelined and headed for Fort
Myers, Florida where he attended gunnery school. Describes this training
in some detail. (11:30)
Following this short period he was sent on to Selma Field for actual
navigational training for a period of six months. (11:40)
o Selma Field, Monroe, LA (11:50)
Describes what training was like here and that he graduated from here on
May 20, 1944. (12:32)
�
Went home for a short time and then returned and was assigned to go on
to Lincoln, Nebraska where he was placed in a distribution area to be sent
to where he was needed. Briefly describes the feelings his family was
feeling about him and his deployment. (13:04)
o Other places he had trained/descriptions of bomber crew (14:40)
Further talks about his training in Pratt, Kansas, New Mexico and
Kearney, Nebraska in some detail. It was here where he was given his
equipment. From there he was sent to Fort Totten, New York where he
was put aboard a C-46 bound for India. (14:50)
Backs-up and describes his training with 5 officers and 6 enlisted men
while stationed in Pratt, Kansas and Clovis, New Mexico. Trained mainly
with B-29 crews and supposedly his crew were supposed to be sent as
replacements to India. (15:51)
Describes who his crew was and the responsibilities that each one of them
played aboard the B-29. Further goes on to explain what the plain was like
and its weapons’ compliment. (16:40)
Mentions that his flight pilot was well-equipped and experienced enough
to teach his crew the ins and outs of each of their responsibilities aboard
the bomber. It is because of this that they became one of the lead crews
later on. (19:05)
Active Duty (19:55)
China-Burma Campaign (20:13)
o India (20:15)
Briefly describes his journey to India aboard a transport plane. Upon
arriving in November, 1944; he and his crew were put in quarantine for 30
hours to be checked for potential diseases they may have brought over
with them. (20:48) Afterwards, they went by truck to Kharagpur Air Base,
near Kharagpur, India about 60 miles southeast of Calcutta. (21:05)
Frens describes what the heat was like, but doesn’t recall anything
significant about the smells. (21:35)
While stationed in the area in and around Calcutta Frens describes what
the homeless conditions were like there. (21:41)
�
The time there was spent practicing bombing runs on a practice island in
the middle of the Ganges. (22:01)
Also mentions what living conditions were like: what his weekly schedule
of activities looked like, and describes what the size of the compound was.
(23:05)
On a weekly basis, Frens went through a rotation in which he did some
flying and cleaning on other occasions. (23:47)
Many of the missions he went on were daylight ones. Before taking off he
describes what the pre-flight procedures they ran through were like with a
brief on each mission. (25:40)
Among the other duties he performed was recording and compiling data
on what transpired on each mission. (26:55)
o Pengshan, China– Western China (27:40)
Operating out of a base called A7 in this location his B-29 and others
could reach distances as far as Kyushu Island, China. Also describes how
hard it was to navigate and fly over the complicated terrain of the Hump
(the Himalayas). (28:02)
o Briefly describes what conditions his fist mission was like as they flew over the
Assam Valley. (29:16) While flying over the Himalayas he relates how his
bomber group was fighting two wars: the weather and the Japanese. (29:56)
o Stayed in constant contact with a radio base at A7 in the event they had to make
an emergency landing if mechanical failures occurred on the plane. (30:31)
Relates how many B-29s were lost while flying over the Himalayas. (30:57)
o Flew bombing missions over various sections of SE Asia which included
Rangoon, Burma, Bangkok, Thailand, and Singapore. Among the things they
bombed were bridges, transportation centers, and supply depots in Bangkok.
(31:40)
o In another instance, when the English pulled out of Singapore they left a dry dock
which the Japanese began to use. Bomber crews such as his eventually bombed it
sinking it. What is ironic about this is that the British later sent America a bill for
bombing it. (32:49)
Attitude of the bomber (32:58)
�
When bombing the Japanese, the attitude taken by bomber crews
was that they were bombing an enemy who were murdering the
local population. (33:14)
o The length of a bombing mission varied based on the distance from home base to
the targeted area. (34:17 )
o On another mission his crew worked on a photo-identification mission of which
they were up 30,000 feet when they were attacked by Japanese Zeros which they
saw out of their eight o’clock position. Receiving only a few hits to their bomber
no one ended up getting hurt. (35:50)
o In cases where they were attacked, bomber pilots would sometimes turn into the
enemy plane so that they would back off. Briefly describes what his crew was
responsible for while the pilot was flying the B-29. (36:45)
Missions over China (37:53)
o On one particular mission conducted in China his B-29 took off around dawn and
headed for their target on Kyushu Island along the Yellow Sea. (38:12)
Describes what transpired in his bomber as they sighted some ships. Upon
seeing them, the word was given and the bomb bay doors were open and
the bombs dropped on the ships at a lower altitude. After this was done the
bomb bay doors refused to close and so they flew all the way back to
Pengshan Air Base in Pengshan, China. (40:10)
On their way back, it was difficult going with the navigating and so they
called the base to get a reading on their position. (40:53)
Just as they landed two of their engines ran out of gas. Stayed two days
while their B-29 was being fixed. (41:43)
o On that mission, not a bomber crashed even though there had been an increased
likelihood of this happening. (42:38)
o Frens briefly describes how they identified the separation of officers and privates.
As bomber crews they made no distinctions unless they were friends. (44:21)
Living arrangements in China (45:23)
o Enlisted men and officers stayed in tents while they operated out of Pengshan Air
Base near Pengshan, China. When off duty they would go into Chengdu to have a
good time. Frens while here was a part of the 792nd Bomb Squadron, a part of the
�468th Bomb Group; 58th Bomb Wing of the 20th Air Force which consisted of 10
to 12 planes. (46:28)
o When on base, they would resupply other airplanes getting ready to fly over the
Himalayas. Transport B-29s made regular runs over the Himalayas to drop off
food and supplies since there was no system of communication. (46:54)
o
SEANAC a civilian organization with the Army Air Corps supplied his base out
of Calcutta. India. (47:48)
o Frens mentions serving with a Japanese American who helped to intercept
Japanese messages. However when it came to reading messages on flying
missions he could not come since he was a Nisei-(term referring to 2nd Generation
Japanese immigrant) of American citizenship. (49:15)
The Marianas (50:13)
o 30 days before being redeployed Frens mentions how the ground crews were
deployed through Australia. Upon receiving orders one day, Frens and his crew
were redeployed to Kunming for refueling and then sent on to the Philippines.
Enroute to Tinian and Saipan they were diverted. (50:56)
Refueling was done by Chinese workmen as was the case at the base in the
Chinese province of Chengdu specifically out of Pengshan Air Base.
(51:21)
o The purpose of their redeployment to the Marianas was that they would begin a
90-day blitzkrieg from May to August. (52:19)
By this time, the war in Europe was over and troops were en-route to the
Pacific. The Air War in the Pacific was going well with 400 to 600 B-29s
flying on a regular basis. (52:53)
Describes what the air field setup at North Field was like. (54:04)
o Once out of Clark Airfield they were assigned to a single runway called West
Field, Tinian with 40 planes operating out of there. (54:21)
With a difficult runway and sand dune on the edge of it, it was difficult
often times to build up enough speed to take off. (55:20)
During this time, continual bombing of Japan was done to avoid a landing.
(55:53)
Bombing runs to Japan (57:39)
�o While running missions, bomber crews received little Japanese air resistance but
upon closer approach of the Japanese mainland they would come under heavy
anti-aircraft fire. (58:49)
o On one such run, his B-29 was forced to make an emergence landing at Iwo Jima.
He describes what the crash landing was like while still enroute to Kobe, Japan,
their target. (59:25)
o Their plane was shot up pretty good but thankfully they didn’t lose anyone. When
they landed on Iwo Jima the downpour made the runway very slick. The plane
slide along it and then crashed into an embankment nose first. (1:00:30)
The only person to sustain injuries was the bombardier, who was later
sent to Guam. (1:01:41)
o Frens describes how the attitude between experienced men and substitutes was
bad. Briefly took part in four sea-and-rescue missions for another crew out of Iwo
Jima. Describes this experience in some detail. (1:02:46)
o After this time, he was reassigned to his home B-29 crew. (1:03:46)
o Briefly describes what the fighting was like on Saipan, Iwo Jima, and
Guadalcanal that he heard from others. (1:04:24)
o As the war in the Pacific began to come to an end the A-bomb was dropped.
Apparently this came as a surprise to everyone since a crew operating out of
North Field was responsible for the dropping. Finding out through the radio, Frens
relates how five to six days afterward the 2nd bomb was dropped. (1:05:55)
o Flew a few more missions after August 15th also. (1:07:03)
Attitude of air men (1:07:17)
Describes many of their reactions and how the initial attitude was
to check and see how many points they had until being sent home.
(1:07:31)
Going Home (1:07:47)
o Frens was sent home aboard a B-29 which stopped at Hawaii, and then Nathan’s
Air Force Base, California where he and his bomber crew separated and were
discharged. (1:07:54)
After the Service (1:08:50)
�
Background (1:09:05)
o Upon being discharged, Frens decided to keep his commission and stay in the
Reserves. (1:09:25)
o Was soon transferred to Fort McClellan after San Diego. (1:10:51)
o His pilot and he split up in Spokane, Washington where he took a train to
Chicago. While en-route they picked up some nurses in Coeur-d-Alene, Idaho.
(1:11:22)
Readjustment to Home (1:12:14)
o Upon coming home, the feelings among his whole family were very emotional
and moving since his whole family had survived the war. (1:12:47)
o Got home in October, 1945 upon which time he went back to Calvin College and
completed two more years there. Upon completing college, he moved to Ann
Arbor. (1:14:07)
o Other military service (1:14:30)
Received a message from Reserves saying that if he wanted to keep his
status he would need to do something. And so as an active member of the
reserve he attended meetings and conferences so that he could maintain
the required 30-pts to keep his status. He soon got a job in Chicago’s
O’Hare Airport with a flying unit in the National Guard. Was soon
redeployed to the Bahamas in 1958. (1:15:20)
o Wraps up by mentioning that he had received his degree at Calvin in education
and history. Afterwards he went on to get his Masters at University of Michigan
in Business Administration and settled in Chicago. (1:17:10)
o Further discusses how he had met his wife in college and their 54 years together.
(1:17:30)
Interview ends (1:19:54)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FrensJ
Title
A name given to the resource
Frens, John (Interview outline and video), 2003
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Frens, John
Description
An account of the resource
John Frens is a World War II veteran who served out of the 792nd Bomb Squadron of the U.S. Army Air Corps from December, 1942 to 1945, and remained in the reserves until 1958. He served in the Army Air Corps as a B-29 navigator. His unit was based first in India, then later in China and in the Marianas. He participated in bombing missions against Japanese positions in Southeast Asia and China, and later in the strategic bombing of Japan in 1945.
Contributor
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Boring, Frank (Interviewer)
Michigan Military Preservation Society (Grand Rapids, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army Air Corps
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eng
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2003-06-25
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
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application/pdf
video/mp4
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7d086047da9c1749375a75224c015956.mp4
1564900017cdee3b7fd3649838b0e9b7
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/16ce4ace3ecda7cc1b5fabe6620551db.pdf
9bd33bb56c025378b3f0bf532f2f2ac9
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Vietnam
Earl Freeman
Total Time – (31:31)
Enlistment/Training
· Enlisted because he had five other brothers that were in the military
o He knew that he could get the G.I. Bill afterwards and go to school
· He chose the Navy because he wanted to do as little of walking as possible and
because they had technical, civilian related jobs (01:26)
· He was living in Phillips, Maine when he enlisted (01:36)
· When he got out of boot camp, he had to wait for more training (01:56)
o Was in San Diego waiting for a ship to come back from Vietnam with
repairs done to it
· Stopped in Guam to train with Marines (2:27)
· Served in the UVT
Active Duty – (02:45)
· When he got to Vietnam, he was transferred around on river boats (02:54)
· Went by Tiger Island, Vietnam (Ong Ho)
o It was an area with a lot of heavy gunfire
· Get shrapnel in the sides of their boats
o Were able to eventually weld the holes up (03:27)
· His mailing address was the USS John S. McCain
· Was sent with a reconnaissance unit to re-cover fighter pilot, John McCain
o The Vietnamese captured McCain before his unit got there and he became
a POW
· Wore POW bracelets during the war in honor of John McCain
· Went on a mission to recover a space capsule (05:25)
· All higher ranking officers were on an aircraft carrier – where all of the astronauts
were sent
· All parts of his unit worked together in all of their jobs
o Sometimes he would serve as gunner, sometimes he would drive the boat
(06:27)
· Orders were given all day long and he just had to obey them
· He spent the majority of his time on the Cua Viet River and River Way (Mekong
Delta) (07:45)
· You did your orders no matter what
o If you were told to shoot something, you had to shoot it (08:13)
�· The rivers were very bushy and visibility was extremely low
o The Vietnamese had holes in the ground with lids over them
o When boats would guy by, the Vietnamese would come out and “light the
sky up” (09:00)
o He remembers that it was very scary
· He never knew when he was going to get shot at
· Saw a gun mount blow up that had someone in it
o He heard the man moaning afterwards (09:47)
· Was involved in earning the Meritorious Unit Citation (10:18)
o He earned it by facing combat when transporting 2 Marine advisors, a
South Vietnamese general, and Admirals
o As they picked up these officials, they sustained heavy gunfire (11:10)
o He was driving the boat – drove out as fast as he could
§ Nobody was hurt and they made it safely to their destination
· In order to earn the unit citation, it cannot be just one individual (11:51)
· He received the Combat Action Ribbon and the Vietnamese Service Medal – 4
stars for 4 years (12:17)
· His mother wrote the captain a letter saying that she was upset that her son had
not yet written her (13:32)
o The captain then forced him to write letters home and he had to prove that
he was sending them
· Went to Japan for a couple of weeks for R&R (14:19)
· Men entertained themselves at stations along the river
o They had make-shift bars, pool tables, etc (15:35)
· Traveled to Japan, Philippines, Hawaii, Thailand and Australia (16:24)
· He got along with all of his fellow soldiers (17:02)
o Never had problems with officers or enlisted men
· Feels closer to his fellow soldiers than his own brothers
o Always had to trust them – you would always watch each others back
(17:48)
· Has not seen any of his comrades in over 30 years
· He was questioned for an entire day before he was discharged (20:05)
· Had to go to see a career counselor that tried to get him to re-enlist (20:21)
o Was offered a nice re-enlistment package, bonus, and higher rank of pay
After the Service – (21:11)
·
·
·
·
After he was discharged, he graduated from Wyoming Park High School (21:25)
He eventually went to college
Became a meat cutter for 14 years
He went back to college to become a pipe fitter (21:58)
o He has installed fire sprinklers for 15 years (22:10)
· Enjoyed the trade school more than college
�· After coming back, life seemed normal, everyday life (23:15)
o Did not want unemployment because he did not think he deserved it
· He is a member of The American Legion (24:34)
o He chose The American Legion over other organizations because he felt
they do more for veterans
· He would like to see a President for the United States that has been in war, that
has military experience (26:54)
· The military helped discipline him (27:58)
· He thinks young people should consider the military for the experience and the
ability to travel (29:26)
· He would like to return to Thailand (29:59)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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FreemanE1120V
Title
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Freeman, Earl (Interview outline and video), 2005
Creator
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Freeman, Earl
Description
An account of the resource
Earl Freeman was living in Phillips, Maine when he enlisted into the Navy. He was greatly influenced by the military experience of all five of his brothers. After waiting for his ship in San Diego, Earl was sent to Guam for more training. From Guam, he was sent to Vietnam to serve in many capacities on the riverboats. The majority of his time was spent in the Mekong Delta. He saw a good deal of combat, and his unit received multiple citations.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Hirdes, Scott (Interviewer)
Anderson, Melissa (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Navy
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2005-05-15
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/af65dec0f2170b0580a9b4f3ab654045.mp4
f7f6b227c26d580f73493f0e983d8f77
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d1a442c504e296ea637103a93952cd63.pdf
d87ee49ae7890ef1e88a050805e63a0f
PDF Text
Text
Interview Notes
(Length: 0:51:29)
Raymond Frederick
World War II Veteran: Pacific Theater
United States Navy: 05/44 – 02/46
(00:00) Early Years:
Born in Kansas during the height of “Oil Boom”
Father was an oil field worker, came from a ranch in west Kansas near Greensboro
Father lost job in 1939 in the oil fields and went back to the area with his family to farm
Worked on the farm at 14 years old
(1:02)Pre-Enlistment Information:
Finished high school in Kansas
Married his wife in 1944 just prior his departure into the military.
After high school, it was very important to young men to join the military.
Hired by friend of his father for farming
Joined military in late spring of 1944
Went from a small town in Kansas to the Chicago area
There for 10 weeks for Navy training
(2:47) Enlistment/Training:
Boot camp type of training
Mainly conditioning for city people with little physical background
Needed to learn how to swim
Abandon ship exercises using generic boats
Rifle training
Lots of marching
Learning how to live away from Mom, Dad and/or wife
(4:05) Discipline
He did not go on report
He did not like it that the group would get punished for what one or two people did
Night marching used for punishment
“Grinder” was the name given to the training ground
Some people had problems showering and with punctuality in his barracks
He did not have a problem with discipline
�(05:27) Basic Training
He got a chance to come home for late October (Christmas time)
He was sent to Mississippi
Gunnery school was a big part of his training there
Selected because he had no background education in specialty areas
He was put in the Armed Guard, group of individuals to operate the gunnery protection for
the individual shifts.
Had to be trained to use a five-inch 38, five-inch 51, three-inch 50, 20mm, and small arms
weapons.
Was at Gunnery School at Louisiana for about seven to ten weeks
Fired ammunition over the Gulf of Mexico
(07:23) Shipping Out:
Caught an LST out of “Treasure Island”, New Orleans to Panama Canal
Housed at Cristóbal Naval Base for less a week
Caught S.S. “Beruie” going west through canal on December 25, 1944
Assignment to that ship for the next nine months
(08:25) Experiences to New Guinea:
Hauled gasoline to New Guinea and went back to San Francisco
Got seasick, not used to large ships
Thought LSG was the worst vessel because it rocked a lot, was on one for about seven days
around Cristóbal
Likes the ocean, but the vastness of it is overwhelming
Thought most beautiful water was the Coral Sea near Australia
The ship he traveled on was a solo vessel because the Japanese did not have a lot of
submarines to be used as a wolfpack
A sister ship ahead of them was hit but they did not answer the SOS because it was often
used as a trap for other vessels
Didn’t meet any enemy forces directly during voyage to New Guinea
(13:09) Merchant Marine and the Armed Guard:
Merchant Marine had about 31 to 33 people on board
About 24 Navy Armed Guards in charge of protecting the ship
The Armed Guard consisted of a full lieutenant (the commanding officer), a Third-Class
Petty Officer (Gunner classification), and rest were mostly Seamen.
Went from Seaman Second to Seaman First aboard the vessel
Jealousy between the two because the Navy was in charge of the protection of the ship and
the difference in pay of government and civilian
� Main mode of operations of the Armed Guard was to prevent enemy submarine crews from
boarding and destroying their vessels
Merchant Marines did see the Navy as helpful for the most part.
The two forces did eat together in a common mess hall
(17:22) Experiences at New Guinea:
Did not stop on the way to New Guinea, never saw land during voyage
He saw some mountains at the coast and surprised at the lack of sand
He saw plenty of sand in the Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean areas though
The supplies the ship unloaded were to be used for the push north to Guadalcanal
Had to wait two days for an opportunity to unload the cargo because of the traffic
While in New Guinea, there was an air raid over the mountains
He comments on the fact that if the bombing occurred at the harbor where the 200 ships
were docked full of cargo, they would have hit the jackpot
Saw a squadron or two of big bombers (dubbed “Bettys”)
(21:21) After New Guinea:
First went to San Francisco for new load of oil, then to the Admiralty Islands
At the Admiralty Islands, his captain got in trouble in the bay area of a small island for
smashing things up because he was drinking
Damage consisted of a few ships
As punishment, the captain was sent to Iran – through the Indian Ocean to the Persian Gulf
Had to drop anchor in the Persian Gulf for a dust-off
Collected engine oil that was used for steam-operated ships at Abadan, Iran and transported
it to Sri Lanka and New Guinea then to the States
Had to stop for food because a Merchant Marine on board took money for the food they
were supposed to have, thinking they were going back to the States for more, when the
captain of the vessel got in trouble and they were sent to Abadan
It was tough dealing with the food shortage
The officers in the Merchant Marines were sometimes unreliable
The Merchant Marine dealing in the food was in danger from the other Merchant Marines
(25:17) Merchant Marines:
Most of the Merchant Marines were people were from around bodies of water
Two of them were from the Great Lakes area
The sea-going Merchant Marine and lake-going Merchant Marine are different because the
lake–faring Merchant Marines thought the squalls on the lakes were worse than the ocean
Had good communication back then about weather conditions
Did not have radar, had to depend on eyewitness reports
Merchant Marines came from areas like New Jersey
Ship that they were on was built in Pennsylvania
� Most were heavy drinkers, played poker all night
Most did not hold with a “long-range view” of the world
(27:57) Second Mate:
Job of the Second Mate was to navigate the ship
Their Second Mate was very good at navigation
He also drank a lot and was temperamental
When they pulled into California, they had burned up the furnaces that heated the boilers
The equipment had to be replaced, so the boat was placed in a temporary dry-dock
After that was replaced, they went to the Admiralty Islands and then back to the States
(about a 40 day trip)
On the return trip the Second Mate said that he was leaving the boat when they got back
He got extremely drunk right when he left the vessel at California
The crew shanghaied him and brought him back aboard the vessel
After the Second Mate slept it off, he was enraged about being brought back to the ship
(30:07) Transferring Ships:
“Beruie” went back to Panama Canal and they disembarked and waited five days to catch a
new vessel at Panama City
“Richard F. John” – Liberty vessel loaded with building supplies, some tanks, and military
supplies
It headed to the Philippines at a very slow rate
Top speed of the vessel could not have been over 12 knots
Did not board vessel with the same group of Armed Guards, had two other people that he
was with on the other ship
Different approach to life, different personality on board the new vessel
Merchant Marines did not like the skipper because he was too much like the Navy
Less congeniality aboard the new ship
Traveled from Philippines to southern part of Texas west of Houston (took about 65 days)
(33:09) Off-Duty Time:
Drank Cokes and played Pinochle
Typically worked for four hours and off-duty for four hours
Not a lot of time for sleep
Had to stay on watch for renegade submarines
Given a rifle and had to watch for sharks in the Philippines
He finds it interesting that they were able to get Cokes by the case
Liked to play Pinochle because he did not gamble
They would also read, but no radio, had to maintain radio silence
�(33:55) End of the War:
When the war ended their vessel was halfway between the Philippines and Panama
Received word over the wireless
Continued the same mode of operations even though the war was over
Nobody believed that the Japanese believed that the war was over
Some ships still got hit by the Japanese military even after the war was over
After he got back from that trip he left the ship and took a leave of absence for a month to
go back home to Kansas
He was discharged from the service after he went back in February
He thought a little about staying the Navy because he did not have a job
His wife would have hated it if he stayed in the Navy
He decided to go back home to “Farm Country”
He did not have a lot of success at farming
He joined in a partnership with his father to run their farm, which required some business
knowledge
After calling it quits with farming, he got a job in the oil fields with an oil pipeline company
He worked for them for five years, then after downsizing, he went to work for another oil
pipeline company that was building a pipeline from Texas to Michigan
He then became a safety engineer and was shipped to Detroit where he lived for thirty years
before moving to Grand Rapids
(38:58) Reflection on Time in the Service and the Middle-Eastern World:
Gave him a broader view of the world
Did not go to a lot of big cities except New Orleans and a little bit of the West Coast of the
United States
The Iranians he met were stony-faced, unsmiling and seemed hostile and found the same
attitude from the Middle-Eastern population in Dearborn, Michigan
They seemed to have an attitude that they would not adjust to the world around us
He noticed while on the Euphrates River that on both sides there were people living in
shacks and all they did was grow dates and they had no interest in learning about Americans
He also noticed that a lot of the Middle-Eastern people still grew dates in Dearborn even
though they worked for Ford
He agrees that sometimes it takes a generation to become “Americanized” but it seems
strange to him that the next generation did not show more interest in it
Observed that the Middle-Eastern population in Michigan made no apologies for 9-11-01.
Finds the culture very different from his own
(45:39) Stories during the Voyages:
On the Indian Ocean, they had severe cyclones
They got caught in a 100mph wind cyclone and they were sitting high due to an empty hold
� The captain ordered that the starboard tanks filled with saltwater and that saved the ship
from capsizing
When they were tipped, the fires in the furnace went out and took about four hours to get
the furnaces fired up again
He was really afraid and thought the ship was done for during this episode
The powerful energy of the storm would cause the ship to bow
The noise of the catwalk buckling was loud but it actually stayed together
There was a guy drafted called “Pops” because he was the oldest guy around
“Pops” got off the ship at Hawaii and got very drunk and could not even get himself on the
ship so they had to sway a cargo net over the side and pick him up to bring him on board
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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FrederickR
Title
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Frederick, Raymond (Interview outline and video), 2008
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Frederick, Raymond
Description
An account of the resource
Raymond Frederick served in the U.S. Navy between 1944 and 1946 in the Armed Guard. He worked with the Merchant Marines in the transport of supplies throughout the Pacific Theater. He discusses what he was doing before the war, his experiences in working with the Merchant Marines, the various places he visited in the Navy and what happened after the war. He also expresses his views on Middle-Eastern culture, both from his exploits to Iran and in the United States.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Navy
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Merchant mariner
Merchant marine--United States
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2008-01-22
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0ddc8eb117c857c7aa2fbe059f4b1c04.mp4
9028e140a839023a255c5e70465163d1
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/96ab856cf833e20ccef37d9f93027115.pdf
3cf90677ab04769f3e2918fad1eb0395
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Patrick Frederick
(14:21)
Background Information (00:23)
Joined the service due to a family history of enlisting in the military. (00:25)
Patrick enlisted in the U.S. Army due to his desire to become a Military Police Officer. (00:40)
Training (00:56)
After enlisting, Patrick was sent by bus to Detroit, Michigan, where he was sent by plane to
Atlanta Georgia. He was then sent by bus to Fort McClellan, Alabama were he did his basic
training. (1:00)
Patrick’s first day of training was his 18th birthday. He was scared. (1:24)
Overview of Service (1:45)
He was given Basic training and Advanced Infantry Training. (1:50)
He was first stationed at Fort Carson, Colorado. (2:11)
Patrick was also stationed in Korea, Honduras, and Panama. (2:30)
While in Honduras, Patrick’s unit was fired upon. While in Panama his platoon also came under
fire just before Operation Just Cause (December 1989). (2:37)
While at Fort Carson, Colorado, Patrick pulled over a man who had a warrant out for his arrest
for murder. The alleged criminal tried to fight Patrick. Though wounded, Patrick fought the man
off until backup arrived. (3:43)
While in Panama, two men in Patrick’s company were kidnapped by enemy forces. They were
later released alive. (5:31)
He was fearful while in a fight in Honduras. He felt ill equipped and caught off guard. (6:06)
In Honduras Patrick’s unit was assigned to Black Hawk Helicopters. This was a common form of
transpiration for Patrick. (7:19)
Life in the Military (7:50)
While stateside, food was good. While in the field, the men almost always had field rations.
(7:51)
While in the field Patrick encountered many animals including lizards, snakes, spiders, jungle
cats, and fire ants. (8:35)
In Patrick’s off time he would often write home. (9:34)
End of Service (9:50)
His service did prepare him for a career in law enforcement. (9:54)
His last day in service was surreal to him. Patrick had been in the military since the age of 18,
when he got out he felt like he didn’t belong. (10:28)
After returning home, Patrick enrolled in a police academy. (11:10)
�
Patrick did make several close friends in the service. He is still in contact with them in 2011.
(11:45)
He has respect for service members serving. (12:28)
Patrick is not a member of any veteran’s organizations. (12:58)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FrederickP1359V
Title
A name given to the resource
Frederick, Patrick (Interview outline and video), 2011
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Frederick, Patrick
Description
An account of the resource
Fred was born in Wyoming Park, Michigan in 1920. Most of his family was also born and raised in the Wyoming area. He was drafted into the United States Army during World War II. He served overseas in the Philippines as a truck driver. Fred delivered needed supplies to the troops such as food, water and other essentials.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Frederick, Tanner (Interviewer)
Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2011-11-17
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8808661ec001378f932a07d052adbb21.mp4
054da75fd6db626cb769ee60fab4dfae
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1391a78efdbb8876e7c45e085672046d.pdf
a91bf352548178e17ee2b05b9be44377
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Vietnam War
Interviewee’s Name: James Frederick
Length of Interview: 20 minutes
Pre-Enlistment (00:11)
Childhood (00:13)
o Born in Plainwell, MI although he grew up in Allegan. (00:34)
Education (00:41)
o Attended Allegan High School and then graduated from Michigan State
University earning a Bachelor of Arts in Forestry. Later he would earn a Masters
in Public Administration from the University of Oklahoma. (00:56)
Enlistment/Basic Training (01:06)
Background (01:10)
o Completed advanced ROTC training while attending Michigan State University in
1965. (01:15)
o Was sworn in as a 1st Lieutenant in January 1966 and then called into active duty
in March, 1966. (01:20)
o Was commissioned into the armed forces as an officer in the U.S. Air Force.
(01:36)
Why he joined (01:59)
o Joined the U.S. Air Force out of a patriotic duty to serve his country during a time
of war. (02:03)
Where he went (02:15)
o Attended ROTC summer camp in 1964 at Bunker Hill Air Force Base near
Kokomo, IN. Was here for a period of 4 weeks. (02:36)
o Bunker Hill Air Force Base Training (02:40)
Briefly describes what sorts of exercises and training he underwent while
in basic training. (02:55)
�
While stationed here, he details what classes were like and that they were
specifically preparing him for his deployment to Vietnam eventually. At
the time he was attached to the 820th Red Horse Squadron which basically
was a heavy engineering construction squadron which was part of the Air
Force’s Heavy Construction Squadron. (03:18)
Active Duty ((04:03)
Vietnam (04:10)
o His squadron was stationed at Thuy Hoa Air Force Base, Vietnam for 10 days. He
and another engineer out of five in the unit were sent to Dà Nang, Vietnam.
(04:39)
o But because he was an augmentee he did not fly planes but flew with other
soldiers. Backs up and mentions what bases he stationed at in the states before
being deployed to Vietnam. (04:59)
o Briefly describes his journey to Vietnam and then moves into discussing what his
job assignment entailed as an assistant commissioned officer at Dà Nang. (05:53)
o For the first six months he was there, he was a cantonments officer in charge of
vertical construction of buildings, parachute towers, dormitories, and other
building projects. (06:05)
o Later on, serving as a field officer he was responsible for the building of aircraft
revetments and shelters and did runway maintenance. (06:33)
Dà Nang,Vietnam (07:05)
o Spent a total of 12 months in Vietnam of which he arrived three days before the
start of the Tet Offensive. During Tet, he remembers bullets flying every which
way with many rocket attacks as well. (07:17)
In one instance, a rocket exploded just 100 yards away from him. (07:50)
o Over the course of his 27 years of military career he mentions receiving various
campaign awards and citations. Contact with his family was done by letter,
recorder, or signal-side band radio. (09:16)
o Frederick describes how with the U.S. Navy’s access to the city they brought in a
regular supply of men and supplies to the city. In general, the food was excellent
from where he was standing. On a daily basis, Frederick worked 12 hours a day/ 7
days a week. (10:01)
o Living conditions (10:08)
�
When not on duty on weekends, Frederick liked to relax, sleep, and listen
to music. (10:47)
Briefly discusses what sorts of pranks he pulled while in the service.
(10:58)
o Describes what he thought of various officers and soldiers. And also mentions the
deep sense of brotherhood felt by all. (11:38)
After the Service (12:24)
Going Home (12:30)
o Came in through Cam Ranh Bay but left from Dà Nang, Vietnam for home. Spent
his last day with officer friends. (13:13)
o Briefly describes his flight journey home, of which ended at Norton Air Force
Base, CA near San Bernardino, CA. (13:40)
o Soon afterwards, his brother picked up him up and he spent 3 weeks in Michigan
before taking off again. (13:59
o A few weeks later he was stationed in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. (14:22)
Adjusting to Home (14:38)
o For the next couple of years, Frederick went back to school and got his Master’s
degree. (14:38)
o Briefly mentions that he kept in close contact with a few military friends. (14:45)
o Career-wise, he continued to serve in the armed forces until December, 1993 upon
which time he pursued other career endeavors. (15:20)
Reflection (16:26)
o Looking back at it, Frederick describes how his military experience influenced
him personally. (16:48)
o Upon further reflection, he mentions that he was 20 when he had joined up with
the Air Force and then he relates his impressions of the men and women he knew
and how they shaped him. (17:55)
o Wraps up by challenging others to appreciate the sacrifices that our men and
women in the U.S. Armed Services do to keep us free. (19:05)
o Interview completed (20:27)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FrederickJ
Title
A name given to the resource
Frederick, James (Interview outline and video), 2008
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Frederick, James
Description
An account of the resource
James Frederick is a Vietnam War veteran who served initially in the ROTC and then the U.S. Air Force from 1965 to 1993. In this account, Frederick discusses his pre-enlistment, enlistment, and basic training in the U.S. Serving his active duty in Vietnam, Frederick gives one a brief but detailed perspective of what fighting in Vietnam, specifically during the Tet Offensive, was like and his part in it.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sabri, Hannah (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2008-06-03
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/193a6b6b1c57bbb46bc30f6dcb6b7f53.mp4
0544a3347439f320de03b273d36324d4
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8b87d1892dbe81161105be1b731a2ccc.pdf
346f8d02ce7200829ab1513474c037ef
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
John Fowler
Vietnam War
52 minutes 9 seconds
(00:00:20) Early Life
-Born in Kansas City, Missouri in 1947
-Lived there for a few years
-He and his family moved around the country as he grew up
-Father was in sales management
-Spent three or four years in each city
-He worked for Continental Can
-Mother was a stay at home mom
-He has an older brother and a younger sister
-Went to high school for two years in Mt. Prospect, Illinois
-Moved back to Kansas City and completed high school there
-Graduated in 1965
(00:02:12) College
-Attended the University of Kansas
-Liberal arts education
-Went to college for three years
-In 1968 he dropped out for six months
-Rejoined school in spring 1968
-Didn’t do well upon returning in 1968
-He knew that he’d be drafted sooner than later
(00:03:03) Getting Drafted and Basic Training
-Volunteered for the draft in the fall of 1968
-Entered basic training in November 1968
-Reported to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri
-Training was tough
-Cold weather
-Flu
-Affected his physical performance
-Basic training was about two months
-Given leave for Christmas
-Finished basic training in January
-His drill sergeant had been a Vietnam veteran
(00:04:41) Awareness of the Vietnam War
-Confused about what the war was really about
-Saw Catholics and Buddhists fighting in South Vietnam
-Heard about the Gulf of Tonkin Incident and knew that war was coming
�(00:05:48) Advanced Infantry Training
-Went directly to advanced infantry training (AIT) at Fort Lewis, Washington
-Cold and snowy
-Told that they would all be sent to Vietnam
-His AIT specialization was infantry
-About 70% of his training company had infantry as their job designation
-Training lasted two months
(00:07:20) Noncommissioned Officer School (NCO School)
-Approached about NCO School three weeks before graduating from AIT
-He signed up for NCO School to further prepare himself for Vietnam
-This is in February 1969
-His unit wound up getting sent to South Korea
-He was given two weeks leave and he was sent to Fort Benning, Georgia
-NCO School was the same training as Officer Candidate School
-Focused more on fieldwork though, and less on classroom work
-Training lasted three months
-Became a platoon sergeant at an AIT unit at Fort Gordon, Georgia
-Led troops through training
-Given his sergeant stripes and orders for Vietnam at the end of training
(00:09:55) Details about NCO School
-He was glad that he was going to Vietnam with leadership experience
-Still didn’t prepare you for the reality of Vietnam
-He was tolerated by the other NCO’s at Fort Gordon
-They didn’t have to work as hard with new NCO’s around
-There was tension between older NCO’s (“lifers”) and newer NCO’s (“shake-n-bakes”)
-The older NCO’s had a lack of respect for the newer ones
-Adjusting to being in a position of leadership was difficult
(00:14:06) Deployment to Vietnam
-He was given thirty days of leave after Fort Gordon
-He had to report to Fort Dix, New Jersey
-Once there he was given jungle fatigues and specific deployment orders
-Family was expecting him to be sent to Vietnam
-He didn’t know what unit he was going to be in, or where he was going
-Stayed at Fort Dix for three days
-While there he was given more gear and basic advice
(00:15:51) Arriving in Vietnam
-Arrived in October 1969 in Long Binh, near Saigon
-Given more gear and pulled basic duties waiting for his assignment
-Assigned to 101st Airborne Division
-Surprised because he always associated the 101st with paratroopers
-Flown up to Da Nang then from there Camp Eagle
-Given basic introductory training at Camp Eagle
-Protocol and procedure in Vietnam
-How to watch for enemy sappers
-How to set up land mines and flares
-Training lasted a week and made him realize how unprepared he was
�(00:18:43) Camp Evans
-Assigned to Charlie Company 2nd Battalion of the 506th Infantry of the 101st Airborne Division
-They were stationed at Camp Evans
-Drove up there by truck
-His company was still on the demilitarized zone covering the 3rd Marines who were leaving
-They returned to base four days later
-His company had seen fighting in the A Shau Valley, at Hamburger Hill, and the DMZ
-Intimidating to try and relate to them and to assert his leadership
-He wanted to prove that he was knowledgeable
(00:20:42) In the Field-Overview
-Went into the field shortly after his company returned to base
-They patrolled the firebases in the area
-Spent Thanksgiving and Christmas in the field
-They had very little to no enemy contact
-Stayed in the foothills and the mountains
(00:22:17) In the Field-Details
-Each soldier carried an eighty pound backpack that contained:
-Weapons and ammunition
-Fresh, clean water
-Food to last their time in the field
-They got close to running out of food a few times
-Clothing
-An empty M16 ammo can to keep important material dry
-Claymore mines and grenades
-They covered one kilometer to two kilometers a day in the mountain
-They covered three kilometers to four kilometers a day if they were on easier terrain
(00:25:52) In the Field-Conditions and Relations
-If they went on hunter-killer operations they left their packs behind
-Rain and mud made travel even more difficult than it already was
-He always had a disconnect with the battle hardened soldiers
-Bonded better with “greener” soldiers
-He was able to gain their respect after a few months of proving his credibility
-He focused on finding good positions
-Focused on making sure they established secure perimeters at night
-They ultimately spent three months in and out of the field during monsoon season
(00:28:27) Beginning of Firebase Ripcord
-He didn’t realize how close they were to the enemy when Ripcord was being established
-He remembers seeing the bombardment and storming of Ripcord from a distance
-Knew something big was happening
-They were spared the details
-When the establishment of Firebase Ripcord began they lost a soldier early on
-Drove home the fact that the situation had changed
-Accounts part of his survivability to Captain Vasquez (the company commander)
-Former special forces
-Knew how to lead troops
�(00:32:48) Establishing Firebase Ripcord
-His company moved up the hill and established Firebase Ripcord
-Under Vasquez they made Ripcord a heavily fortified firebase
-Moving up the hill was oddly easy
-Once at the top they established security and started building
-They had the high ground which made it easily defendable
-All positions at Ripcord were underground
-No above ground structures
-First experience on Ripcord lasted three weeks
(00:37:11) Conditions At and Around Firebase Ripcord
-Patrolled the area around the firebase afterwards
-His company was operating at two thirds strength
-Casualties made them even weaker
-And a lack of replacements didn’t help
-Returned to Ripcord for about one week
-Treated it like a base camp
-Going back to Camp Evans felt like they were Stateside
-Spent a lot of time looking for enemy supply caches and bunkers
-Enemy contact was increasing at the time
-Enemy was beginning to appropriate American weaponry
-He was wounded by an enemy mine
(00:42:01) Camp Evans and USS Sanctuary
-He was sent back to Camp Evans for treatment
-Sent to the USS Sanctuary (hospital ship) for one week
-They determined that he was okay
-Returned to Camp Evans and received word that his company had been “wiped out”
-Wanted to go out immediately to help them
-His company had lost eight soldiers and taken multiple wounded
-His company was moved from Hill 902 to another one to provide security
(00:46:09) Leaving the Army and Coming Home
-He took R&R at Saigon and was advised to return to his company
-Stayed with his unit until the second week of August 1970
-Returned home and was able to leave the Army
-He had applied for an early out to return to college
-The University of Kansas accepted him back in
-Advised that there could be confrontations with the protestors
-Never ran into problems with protestors at the airports
(00:47:27) Life after the Army
-Went from Vietnam back to school within nine days
-He was underweight and nervous
-Experiencing culture shock being home
-Got an apartment and a car
-Did well in school this time
-Majored in English and business
-Never graduated due to trauma from Vietnam
-Got married
�-Found a job in sales and marketing
-Had a daughter
-Later entered therapy to deal with his trauma
-Wife recognized it early on
-Glad that he was able to make peace with it
-Glad that he is now able to reconnect with soldiers from Ripcord
-Appreciates the interactions he can have at the reunions
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FowlerJ1533V
Title
A name given to the resource
Fowler, John (Interview outline and video), 2013
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Fowler, John
Description
An account of the resource
John Fowler was born in Kansas City, Missouri in 1947. He attended college at the University of Kansas and eventually dropped out. In the fall of 1968 he volunteered for the draft and was sent to basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri and later AIT at Fort Lewis, Washington. After AIT he signed up for NCO school and in May he was promoted to the level of sergeant. In October he was deployed to Vietnam and was assigned to Charlie Company of the 2nd Battalion of the 506th Infantry of the 101st Airborne Division at Camp Evans. He and his unit participated in the establishment and operations around Firebase Ripcord until he was wounded in June, 1970. He left Vietnam in the second week of August 1970 and was discharged.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
McGregor, Michael (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2013-10-10
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1b9ecc71f3aa1e4e262f060db79e67f5.mp4
b832feba65593b15a64ba6440427f060
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/01d9483668b02b15aba290be13b8e33c.pdf
9621af61c772449b308c1185e6fb2e89
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Harry L. Fortier
43:23
Background Information (00:18)
Born August 5th 1952 in Ludington, Michigan (00:19)
Served in the Army Specialist 4th class (00:20)
Due to his father’s job, the family moved often.
He had lived in East Lancing, Ionia, and Saginaw where he spend the vast majority of
his youth (00:38)
He was the oldest of 9 children. There were 7 boys and 2 girls (1:09)
Being the oldest, he often had a lot of responsibility. From age 12 and up, he was
called upon to take care of his siblings at times (1:31)
Attended High school St. Peter and Paul area High School, a Catholic school in
Saginaw, Michigan (2:06)
Did not enlist but rather was drafted. (Vietnam had been happening for 10 years
approx. 1972) (2:19)
After receiving his draft notice he had been scared due to the high number of
casualties occurring in the Vietnam war.(3:30)
He used the voluntary draft which allowed him to pick when he wanted to go into
service and where he would do his basic training (4:02)
He had served in the Army for 2 years (17:10)
He got married to his wife Debbie after 1 year of service (17:15)
Basic training (4:17)
Took Basic training at Fort Knox, Kentucky (4:18)
He hoped that by training at this fort he would receive a military occupation that
would not place him on the front lines (4:20)
Tried to avoid Fort Polk, Louisiana, or “little Vietnam”, if at all possible as many of
the men who served here ended up being sent overseas. (4:50)
Ended up being a stevedore and was responsible for loading helicopters, trains,
ships, ext. (4:55)
Basic training felt like harsh football training (5:15)
Basic training included training of weapons, utilities (such as gas masks and
grenades) as well as following many orders (5:20)
He had witnessed some men intentionally hurt themselves or act insane so that they
could be discharged. (6:00)
While working he had been exposed to Black service members from the city who he
recalled would always play music they commonly heard in New York. He did not
care for it. (7:20)
Arapaho and Apaches where also enlisted in the military and often these two groups
would get in both physical and verbal arguments with one another. (8:00)
�After training (8:40)
Was sent to Fort Bragg North ,Carolina (8:54)
Visited home once in August of that year (Approx 1973) and then returned back in
September (9:10)
He spent Thanksgiving at Fort Eustis, Virginia, and Christmas at Fort Bragg, North
Carolina. (9:16)
This time had been very lonely for him (10:01)
Letters (and occasionally phone) had been the only form of communication between
him and his family and loved ones (11:57)
He was able to tell his family almost anything about his training and whereabouts
(13:03)
Feelings and opinions about training (14:00)
He wished he had maintained more contact with men he had trained with (14:10)
He felt and still feels a bond of brotherhood between himself and others who had
been serving in spite of the fact that he had never been in combat (15:55)
His only regret had been knowing what he knows now he could have been a bit
better of a soldier (16:50)
Life After service (16:58)
After his 2 years of service he traveled back to Michigan where they began raising a
family. (Approx 1975) (17:17)
Due to his inability to make very much money, he quickly joined the Army reserve.
(17:26)
Served 12-13 years in the Army Reserve (17:30)
Left the Army reserve after he was being asked to take on more responsibility but
did not have the time to contribute to it (17:46)
He regrets having left the Army Reserve (17:54)
After the Vietnam War was over in 1975 and when he returned from the Army the
war was still a very touchy topic and rarely discussed. (18:11)
His brother-in-law was spat on when he returned home from the Army (18:45)
After serving he had a college education benefit from the military (19:32)
Went back to college and got a degree (19:40)
He used V.A. benefits for home mortgages for his first home (19:46)
In college he studied industrial electronics and got an associates in applied sciences
and industrial engineering (19:28)
While in college he was also in the Army reserve and had 4 children (21:00)
Some additional training was required for service in the Army reserve (21:54)
Was an M.P. (military police) while in the reserve (22:30)
Service as an M.P. (23:05)
Served as a P.O.W. camp guard (23:11)
Was trained how to transport and deal with an “unruly” prisoner (23:30)
�
He enjoyed this position (24:23)
Some of the men he trained with were sent into the Gulf War in 1990 to run P.O.W.
camps. They said it had been nothing like the training and that the prisoners were
more subordinate (24:40)
He was always on the edge of going someplace but never actually was deployed
(25:55)
Additional Military service info (26:11)
He knew of 2 men who deserted (26:15)
He never considered going AWOL however, he did consider going to Canada (27:08)
The training he received and where he went was mostly by chance. (27:46)
By extending time of duty often one could select the type of job or training they
wanted. (28:00)
He did not feel that he would have liked to extend his serve due to the probability of
him serving in Germany (rumored to be very hard on family life) (29:20)
Added thoughts and memories (30:20)
Often visits the Vietnam memorial (30:30)
Often visits the Korean War monument (31:28)
Feels as though the contribution that the military makes is often taken for granted
(32:18)
The military taught him a lot about independence and perseverance (33:32)
Took the core values of the military very seriously and helped him in life (34:29)
The military also exposed him to the “dark underbelly” of humanity such as drugs,
addiction and self mutilation (36:10)
The training and connections with people were much appreciated (38:00)
Encouraged his children to go into service (38:20)
Also encourages other youths to enlist, and thinks the life lessons of the military are
very helpful (39:40)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FortierH1230V
Title
A name given to the resource
Fortier, Harry L. (Interview outline and video), 2011
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Fortier, Harry
Description
An account of the resource
Harry L. Fortier grew up in Saginaw, Michigan, and was drafted into the Army in 1972. He served primarily at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, loading and unloading helicopters, and did not have to go overseas. When he left the Army at the time when the Vietnam War was ending, he experienced some of the same negative treatment that returnees from Vietnam went through.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fortier, Hallie (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Army
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2011-05-31
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fb242b73c3521404cd66f7956818044e.mp4
9d8bcb84921613c7d4fdaa88a65ba41d
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d08ddd3886229de5412debf695d1fbbb.pdf
3a7f2ee432616d3e4717bfb7f31d7684
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Korean War
Interviewee’s Name: James Follis
Length of Interview: 32 mins.
Pre-Enlistment (00:30)
Childhood (00:33)
o Follis was born on April 2, 1933. He does not discuss anything from his
childhood but focuses wholeheartedly on his military background and experience.
(00:37)
Military Background (00:39)
o Served as a corporal in the Korean War. (00:40)
Enlistment/Basic Training (00:44)
Why he joined (00:46)
o He enlisted because he wanted to have his choice of armed service branch rather
than get drafted. (00:48)
o Joined up with the U.S. Army’s Security Agency at the age of 19 because he
thought it would be fun. (01:13)
Where he went (01:43)
o Was shipped off to Fort Riley, KS where he had his first taste of military basic
training. He discusses how his instructors always yelled at him and how it was in
his best interest to just listen and obey them. (02:03)
Active Duty (02:40)
Korea (02:46)
o Once he had completed basic training he set off for Seoul, Korea where he landed.
Was moved by BMZ from Tokyo, Japan to Seoul. Spent 11 months in Korea.
(03:07)
o Briefly describes his job as a radar operator with twelve others and its
responsibilities in some detail. (03:42)
As he mentions all their work was classified top-secret. (05:16)
�o Often, he could hear the sound of battle over the next hill while he worked.
(05:38)
o Memorable Moments (05:50)
Landing in Seoul. (05:55)
Kept in contact with his family by letter and (06:28)
Describes the holidays they celebrated and the food they ate while in
Korea. (07:01)
o While radio operators like him did not face much wartime stress they were very
much shunned by others for being part of the Army’s Security Agency. (08:03)
o On occasion, they could hear snipers shooting and would rush to grab their rifles
and go out on patrol. He only did this on one occasion. (08:47)
o Describes in detail, some of the pranks he and his unit pulled while in Korea.
(09:41)
After the Service (11:10)
o Background (11:22)
o When the war was complete, Follis mentions the various hunting expeditions he
went on. (11:48)
o Briefly mentions a few relatives and friends who served in Korea. (12:50)
o While on leave, Follis went to Tokyo for some R&R of which he spent shopping
and going to the bar. (14:01)
o Backs up and mentions the various places he was stationed in the U.S. such as
Fort Knox, KY and Camp Gordon, GA. (14:47)
o Going Home (16:47)
o During his first eighteen days in Korea, Follis describes how close his unit was to
the frontlines. (17:18)
o When he left Korea it took him 22 days to reach San Francisco, upon which time
went to the payroll office, got his check, and then flew home. Describes what
other soldiers usually had to do different than him because he was an intelligence
officer. (17:49)
o Other Stories (19:20)
�o Briefly shares what troubles, security guards like himself had with Army MPs and
tells a few stories to illustrate this point. (19:33)
o It came to the point, when he was attached to an infantry platoon and was kicked
out because of the pranks he pulled. (21:35)
o High school interviewer mentions that the grandfather was part of a rebel unit.
Briefly shares what living arrangements were like in Korea. (22:15)
o Adjusting to Home (24:47)
o He returned to the U.S. in March and did not get married until a year later.
(25:07)
o Afterwards, he went back to working for 7UP Distributing Co. and worked there
for the next 17 years. (26:16)
o Reflection (26:37)
o Describes how his military service affected his life and how it enriched the rest of
his life. Also mentions how his military experience affected his parents who had a
son with an FBI level clearance working as an intelligence officer in Korea.
(27:30)
o Interview completed (30:31)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FollisJ
Title
A name given to the resource
Follis, James (Interview outline and video), 2004
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Follis, James
Description
An account of the resource
James Follis is a Korean War veteran who served with the U.S. Army's Security Agency for a period of 11 months. In this account, Day discusses his pre-enlistment years, his enlistment and training in the U.S. During his service in Korea, although close to the fighting he did not take part in the fighting, instead his work as a radio operator and security required him to work with Top-Secret classified documents
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Strong, Heather (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2004-04-08
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/411b95fdbde45cd20a8cd40bdfc583cc.m4v
6163bbe55a88053bec2fad46c346e1ce
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/115438089b1ddffbbee292b1356d4635.pdf
5b2e7a4299e31fb54617b5bb4301292f
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Name of War: World War II
Name of Interviewee: Harold Folkema
Length of Interview: 1hr 20mins.
Pre-Enlistment (00:14)
Childhood and education (00:06)
o Attended Burton School through the 10th Grade in Grand Rapids, Michigan and
then joined the workforce. (00:19)
His Jobs (00:25)
o Describes briefly what work was like during the Depression, how he met his wife,
and married life. (00:45)
Enlistment and Basic Training (01:53)
Background (01:55)
o Was 21 when the draft was initiated. He got deferred for a little while because he
was married until he received a letter to report and go into the service. (02:11)
o Briefly describes how the draft worked and what happened once a recruit was
selected. Mentions how men were put into either 4F or 4A. For Folkema, he was
called into the service in 1943 and told to report to Detroit, Michigan, for
preliminary physicals and testing. (03:10)
After his time here, he stayed in Grand Rapids where he waited for a
notice to report. Once he received it, he went by train to Battle Creek
where he was at an army camp for a week and then went by train to
Florida to report for basic training. (05:09)
Florida (06:20)
o Went by bus to a training camp to be trained as an Army infantryman. During the
course of his 13 weeks here he describes what sorts of weapons he trained with and
his regular routine here. (06:31)
o Mentions what his drill sergeants were like and that he received training in the
usage of machine guns, carbines, .45 pistols, mortars, and hand grenades. Also
�underwent under-fire exercises to prepare him for what he would face once he was
overseas. (08:11)
o During his training there, the men never knew where they were going to end up: the
Pacific or Europe. They did however find out later that they were going to be sent to
[fight against] Germany. (10:19)
o During his 13 weeks of intensive training, he maintained a regular correspondence
with his wife by letter mentioning how his experience was and what he was facing.
Once out of basic training he went home, came back, fell sick and was in the
hospital for 10 days and was on furlough again until he was shipped to his next
station of duty. (11:34)
Fort Meade, Maryland (13:01)
o He was soon redeployed to Maryland. Briefly describes what the camp was like
here and what his regular routine consisted of. (13:11)
Journey to England (14:00)
o Mentions what his feelings were on the way to England and what the journey
consisted of. (14:25)
Active Duty (15:22)
In England (15:26)
o Arrived in Portsmouth, England where he was placed with the 1st Division as a
replacement. From his comrades he found out that he was in the best division in the
army. Later on he was part of the first wave to land on the Normandy beaches on DDay. Mentions that nobody knew when they were going to be pushing off for
France. (15:47)
o Describes briefly what training he received in England and what they did to prepare
for the invasion. Mentions how they learned to transfer from a troop ship to a
landing craft via a rope ladder carrying a carbine, bazooka, and a 40-pound pack.
He further mentions that they would be compacted 40 men to each landing craft.
(17:07)
Normandy Invasion (18:59)
o D-Day (19:05)
Briefly describes what he saw and heard as the troop ships came closer to
the Normandy shore as the warships fired on the beaches. As this was
�going on, describes how difficult it was for many men to get on to the
landing crafts via the rope ladder because the ship would be rolling up and
down in the water. Also briefly describes what the mood was like as the
landing crafts pushed towards the beaches (19:25)
Describes in some detail what occurred once the landing craft doors were
dropped and how he and his comrades were up to water to what seemed to
be up to their necks as they were being fired at with men falling
everywhere around him with the screams and shouts of men dying.
(25:18)
After spending [what seemed like?] hours in the water being fired at from
the shoreline a nearby colonel ordered them to move forward and told
them it would be better to die on the beach then in the water. As they
moved towards the beaches, soaking wet, they got rid of their equipment
and packs so that they would not be slowed down by the weight on their
backs to reach the beaches. Slogging their way forward many of the men
were killed by exploding land mines or machine gun fire. (26:31)
Once they came close enough to a pillbox they were out of range of the
big guns and were able to use flamethrowers and grenades to explode
them. Movement and attacking German beach defensives was done in a
straight line. (29:08)
Briefly describes one encounter in some detail where he and three others
volunteered to go get more ammunition from the dead on the beach.
Mentions that while all this was going on that they were under heavy
artillery and machine gun fire. (30:54)
They eventually made it back, distributed the ammo to the group of 10 or
12 there and dug in for the night. Describes what the events of the night
were like. (33:25)
o Events following D-Day +1 (34:53)
On the 2nd day of battle, he mentions that they ate K-rations salvaged from
the dead. Mentions that they spent the entire first day without eating.
(35:28)
As they slogged forward, Folkema mentions what the Normandy terrain
was like that they fought in. All the while those men were moving
forward, others were becoming casualties from exploding landmines and
daily skirmishes with the Germans. Briefly describes what his mission
�entailed as they were moving through the first town they made it through.
(36:41)
Briefly goes into some detail of what the reactions of civilians to the
Allies’ landing were like as they moved through the Normandy
countryside. (40:53)
Briefly describes the different types of skirmishes they encountered facing
the Germans. When faced with a German sniper in the area for instance
they would call the tanks for assistance to clear out snipers and then move
forward. (42:55)
o The Hedgerow Country fighting (44:09)
Briefly goes into some detail about what the battle situation was like while
fighting through the hedgerow country. Mentions facing off with French
women sympathetic to the German cause and the Germany Army itself.
(44:58)
It took them weeks to finally move out of the Hedgerow Country. The
food situation during this time was eating K-rations and drinking water
from streams. (46:51)
Once the kitchen staff caught up to the men he describes how the mood of
the men changed after that. Further describes what the mentality of the
men was like as they moved through the Hedgerows. (47:59)
o Farming terrain they encountered once out of the Hedgerow Country (49:29)
Describes how French civilians reacted to the Allied presence in France
and then mentions what the house-to-house fighting was like. Also,
mention that time was measured in days and hours. (49:42)
o Background to Battle of the Bulge/house-to-house fighting (51:28)
As they moved further towards Germany, he mentions how the fighting
became fiercer. When moving forward they were equipped with light
machine guns and then when taking defensive positions they would have
heavy machine guns at their disposal. (52:01)
Spends a great amount of time describing the carnage on the beaches and
water around Normandy. (54:03)
�
Briefly relates in some detail what resistance they faced while in and
around St. Lo although he was stationed 20 miles from where the actual
bombing was taking place in the town itself. (55:41)
On one encounter, when positioned in their foxhole in the Ardennes’
Forest he had to stop a buddy from running away from attacking German
tanks. (57:02)
Describes several close encounters with German snipers in some detail.
(58:00)
Describes another encounter where as they were clearing out a building
they discovered a group of German soldiers who they promptly captured.
Mentions that they middle-aged and older Germans would give up sooner
than younger German soldiers would fight to the death. (59:32)
o Siegfried Line (1:00:36)
Describes what his experience was like crossing the Siegfried Line before
reaching Aachen, Germany. (1:00:45)
o Battle of Aachen (1:01:35)
Describes how the fighting was house-to-house. The combat in some
places consisted of hand-to-hand and other places from far away. Moving
through this area they were given orders to use bayonets even though they
didn’t actually use them in actual combat here except at the Battle of the
Bulge. (1:02:05)
Briefly describes what the weather was like at the Battle of the Bulge and
how they camouflaged themselves in different types of terrains. (1:03:20)
Describes one encounter where he and three buddies spent three days
under a railroad bridge in Germany while on a reconnaissance mission
separated from their unit. After three days, Allied forces moved through
the region and picked them up. (1:04:55)
o Moving towards Germany (1:07:25)
Once under Patton’s charge, he describes how the speed of the Army was
faster. Describes some of the places they moved through during this time.
(1:07:28)
o Germany (1:08:09)
�
Goes into some detail about how he was wounded and events leading up
to it. (1:09:02)
Before crossing a bridge on the Ruhr River, he stepped on a mine,
upon which it blew his ankles apart and was then hauled by a
buddy to a nearby half track. From here he walked back to a first
aid station. (1:09:50)
o Southampton, England (1:11:13)
Describes what they did for him at the way station and then his
journey from Cherbourg, Germany where he had surgery in a field
hospital, and then from there went by plane to Southampton,
England where he had three months of recuperation. (1:11:25)
Spent much of his recuperation in a tent while area was bombed by
V-2 rockets. One of the nurses he knew was deeply affected by this
experience. Took two months to get back on his feet. (1:12:39)
o Brussels, Belgium (1:14:15)
Was then sent to Belgium where he was attached to the Leavenworth
Service. Was stationed in a shell building in Brussels where he was a
maintenance sergeant over German POWs. Briefly describes what their
duties were like. Also mentions that he had 85 points when the war ended.
(1:14:20)
After the Service (1:15:35)
o Going Home (1:15:52)
Mentions that he was put aboard a victory ship for the states. Took 13
days to reach Boston, Massachusetts where upon landing he took a train to
Indiana where he boarded another train for another train station. Briefly
describes what the homecoming reception was like with his wife and
daughter who had never seen him before that time. (1:16:46)
Celebrated the end of the war with a bowl of ice cream with a few buddies
just as others were boarding ship to go overseas. (1:18:49)
o Interview Ends (1:19:58)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
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RHC-27
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eng
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
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FolkemaH
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Folkema, Harold (Interview outline and video), 2002
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Folkema, Harold
Description
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Harold Folkema is a World War II veteran who served in the U.S. Army from 1943 to 1945. In this account, Folkema discusses his pre-enlistment, enlistment and training in the U.S. and England. Assigned to the 1st Infantry Division as a replacement in May 1944, he participated in the D-Day landing at Omaha Beach, and fought through Normandy, northern France, Belgium and into Germany, where he was wounded by a mine.
Contributor
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Boring, Frank (Interviewer)
Michigan Military Preservation Society (Grand Rapids, Mich.)
Subject
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Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
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eng
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
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Moving Image
Text
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
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2002-08-23
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
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application/pdf
video/mp4
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9ba8c8cd448ab52e7ecf83645719bcca.m4v
fc55c81336a5a17d11fdac9a58b190cd
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a47350cf0874b2c4ce6c9e727c12f8e1.pdf
141a38ee2113983ddc9f3bb2ec2a4344
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Dorothy Folkema
Interviewer: James Smither
Transcribed by Emilee G. Johnson, Western Michigan University
Length: 35:42
James Smither: We’re talking today with Dorothy Folkema of Kentwood, Michigan, the
interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans’
History Project. And Mrs. Folkema, can you begin by giving us some background
on yourself, to start with, tell us where and when you were born.
Dorothy Folkema: I was born in Grand Rapids, right on Knap????? Avenue, in fact, not far from,
not far out of town, but we didn’t stay on that farm long, we moved into a small
farm north of Lowell, in Keen?????? Township.
James Smither: And what year were you born?
Dorothy Folkema: I was born in 1922.
James Smither: And then when did you move out of Grand Rapids?
Dorothy Folkema: Well, I can’t even remember, I was just that young.
James Smither: And then did you grow up out there in the country?
Dorothy Folkema: Then, yes, then I grew up out there. Then we moved on a farm, and I
remember that, a farm in ???? Township, and I remember taking the cattle,
walking the cattle, 1:00 with my dad, and it was a small farm. And lovely
neighbors and there’s where I grew up and went to grade school and, until I
graduated, of course, in 8th grade. And then I came into Grand Rapids to live with
my older sister and go to school.
James Smither: Now, did your family keep that farm in the ‘30s, or?
Dorothy Folkema: My dad, my [unintelligible], they kept that farm for a long, long time. We had
a chestnut grove on the farm, and that was our way of making a good living.
Paying our farm off, I’m sure, and then my folks, my father passed away. That
was long after I was married. And then my mother finally had to sell the farm.
James Smither: Did your father do any other work during this period, or?
Dorothy Folkema: No, no. He was just a farmer.
James Smither: And was it the chestnuts themselves or the wood from the trees?
�Dorothy Folkema: No, the chestnuts themselves, and course, 2:00 they got a disease in them
and were wiped out completely. And that was kind of sad because they were
beautiful, they were a beautiful grove of trees.
James Smither: And then you said, once you finished 8th grade, so did you go to high school, or?
Dorothy Folkema: Then I went to, into Grand Rapids, in fact, right by the old Kent County
Airport. And I stayed with, and I lived with my sister and her family and went to
high school.
James Smither: And which high school did you attend?
Dorothy Folkema: Godwin.
James Smither: And how far was that from your home?
Dorothy Folkema: Oh, a mile. But my, I have a niece that’s two years younger than me, and she
drove a Model T Ford back and forth to school.
James Smither: Now, what year did you finish high school?
Dorothy Folkema: I didn’t. I quit high school to go to work. Because I started to go with my
husband, and of course, money was very short. 3:00 And jobs were very scarce
and I found a job, and so I quit school to go to work.
James Smither: All right. Now, when did you meet your husband?
Dorothy Folkema: I met my husband in 1939. Yeah, so ’39. On a blind date.
James Smither: Now, was he in school himself, or was he out working?
Dorothy Folkema: He was out working.
James Smither: And what kind of work was he doing?
Dorothy Folkema: Anything he could get. Jobs were very hard to find.
James Smither: And what kind of job did you find?
Dorothy Folkema: I went to work at Veltman Cookie Company. Cause I could get a job there.
James Smither: And what kind of work was that? What were you doing for them?
Dorothy Folkema: We packed cookies.
James Smither: Ok. What did that pay, do you remember?
�Dorothy Folkema: .25 cents an hour. If I worked 54 hours, I made $17.
James Smither: 54 hours? And did you do that regularly?
Dorothy Folkema: Well, we didn’t get that many hours in.
James Smither: And then when did you get married?
Dorothy Folkema: We got married in ’41. In April of ’41.
James Smither: And were you still working at the cookie company at that time?
Dorothy Folkema: Mmhmm, but then I quit, because, oh, I couldn’t be working because,
possibly, he could get called up for service, and it wouldn’t be a good idea I’d be
working.
James Smither: Well, why would that be a problem?
Dorothy Folkema: It was if, well he, he claimed that he had to take care of his family. His father
had passed away. Or, his father at that time was ill. And he claimed he had to
keep, take care of the family to keep out of service. He did everything to keep out
of service, I’ll be very frank. And it finally didn’t work.
James Smither: No, it didn’t work. And we have an interview with him in our collection how he
ended up on Omaha Beach on D-Day, so…
Dorothy Folkema: Yep, he ended up on Omaha Beach on D-Day. 5:00
James Smither: So, basically, what you were trying to do, was sort of help with his deferment
status.
Dorothy Folkema: Yes, uh huh. And we stayed with his folks.
James Smither: And then when did he get drafted?
Dorothy Folkema: He went in in, see, ’43, September of ’43. Our daughter was born in February
of ’43.
James Smither: And so you were living at his parents’ house, you had a baby at home, and he
gets drafted. All right. What did you do once he went off to train?
Dorothy Folkema: Well I stayed with, continued with his father that had passed away in January,
before our daughter was born. And then I stayed living with the family, there was
three children living at home, now. And I had a family. I had it good, I had a
wonderful family.
�James Smither: Now, tell me about, just what, sort of, daily life was like, in that period before
he’s gone. What kinds of problems or things 6:00 did you have to deal with then
that people today wouldn’t be familiar with?
Dorothy Folkema: Oh, I really can’t think I involved in, there was nothing.
James Smither: Well, what about things, you had rationing at that time?
Dorothy Folkema: I can’t remember what, possibly we did, but having three more children at
home, rationing wasn’t… You couldn’t afford to buy much anyway, so. [laughs]
James Smither: But did you have to use coupons to buy things like sugar?
Dorothy Folkema: Yes, we had to use coupons to buy sugar. I don’t think flour, and I can’t
remember, and shoes, and gasoline. Gasoline.
James Smither: Now, were the kinds of things you needed for, you know, your baby or your
children and so forth, were those relatively easy to get?
Dorothy Folkema: Yes, I mean, I had no problem with that. I, yeah, you could get that, 7:00
not the best in the West, but, I mean, it wasn’t like you could get today. If you had
a baby bottle, you didn’t throw it away. Cause there wasn’t, well, you couldn’t
afford to buy a lot of things anyway. No, my baby was well-supplied with
essentials that she needed.
James Smither: Ok, and what did you do for fun on the occasions that you got to have any? What
would you do for entertainment then?
Dorothy Folkema: At that time? Go to relatives. Went to a sister’s house. We could go to a
sister’s house and play cards. But we weren’t allowed to play cards at his house
because they were “devil cards.”
James Smither: Ok, and let’s see, did you go to church every week?
Dorothy Folkema: Oh, yes, went to church every Sunday. And grandma usually took care of the
baby. Let’s see, she’d go in the morning, and 8:00 I’d go at night and she’d take
care of my baby.
James Smither: Now, did you have a lot of friends your own age that you saw much of, or did
you not see much of them when you left school, or?
Dorothy Folkema: No, I didn’t see much of them after I left school. Relatives, family, and
course, my folks on the farm, we went out there. And my husband loved to go out
�there because he liked to hunt. And we’d go out to the farm quite often, because
he loved small game hunting.
James Smither: Now, did you have a radio that you listened to, or?
Dorothy Folkema: Yes, we listened to the radio, course, no television, at that time.
James Smither: And were there particular programs or things that you liked to listen to or you
remember, or?
Dorothy Folkema: Oh, I can’t remember any particular thing.
James Smither: Now, do you remember how you heard about Pearl Harbor?
Dorothy Folkema: Yes. 9:00 We were out, it was on a Sunday, we were out to the farm, out to
my folks, and we had the radio on in the car, on the way home. That’s when we
heard it. And we knew.
James Smither: Now at that point did you or your husband have siblings or relatives who were
already in the military at that time, or?
Dorothy Folkema: No, no.
James Smither: There was a draft already.
Dorothy Folkema: There was a draft already, oh, there, my husband’s birthday is October 13, or
October 16, and he, they had to register, and he had to register on his birthday, he,
yep. That was a sad day.
James Smither: Now, before he was actually called up, did he go and report different places or
do physicals and things like that?
Dorothy Folkema: Bigelow Field on Division Avenue, that’s where, and I got to where I didn’t
even want to ride down Division Avenue. 10:00 Because there was a fear of all
those, the numbers were listed.
James Smither: So the numbers were listed, you say, was there the equivalent of a lottery, or?
Dorothy Folkema: Yeah, to get called up!
James Smither: And they were calling up pretty large chunks of each group too, a lot of people.
Dorothy Folkema: Yes, but they weren’t, they called singled first and then married men with,
that had a dependent. I can’t just remember how it went, but, eventually, then, he
did get called up.
�James Smither: So he didn’t have a particular kind of job, then, that would give him necessarily a
deferment?
Dorothy Folkema: He worked at Kalvinator. He was doing war work at that time. But it wasn’t,
they didn’t defer him.
James Smither: At a certain point they just needed enough people to come in as replacements, so
he did that. All right, and then what was your response 11:00 sort of, as a
family, when you found out—
Dorothy Folkema: We were all devastated. That he would be getting called up and he had to go
in September.
James Smither: And were you following the news of the war pretty carefully, or paying
attention?
Dorothy Folkema: No. I ignored it. That’s how I handled it. His mother did, she followed it, and
it made a wreck out of her. And I, I’m in my married little life and my little girl
and, she was spoiled rotten, and made the best of it. That’s the way you did it. No
help, at that time, there was no help. People get all kinds of help today, there was
nothing. Nothing.
James Smither: And what kind of help are you referring to here?
Dorothy Folkema: Like babysitting. There was no daycare centers. There was no place to take
your child. You had to go to 12:00 work. He left. And I suppose I could’ve
gone back home on the farm with the folks, but there was nothing there. I vaguely
drove. I hardly drove before he left, I didn’t have a drivers’ license, and I said to, I
got a job at Lear’s and I hitch-hiked back and forth to work, and I didn’t drive,
because I didn’t drive much, I didn’t have a drivers’ license, and I said to one of
the girls at work, “I need a drivers’ license,” and she said, “Well, I’ll go with
you.” Bless her heart, her name was Irma, and she went with me, down on Hall
Street, to a little brick building, Snyder, I think his name was, took me for a ride
around the block, didn’t ask me to park [laughs], and gave me my drivers’
13:00 license. That’s how I got my drivers’ license.
James Smither: All right, I think a lot of people who go through driver education now would
think that’s a pretty good deal!
Dorothy Folkema: Oh, my goodness. There was no drivers education, course, there was no cars
on the road, either.
James Smither: Right. And he understood that you basically had to get to work, and…
�Dorothy Folkema: Mmhmm
James Smither: All right, now, tell me a little about the job. How did you get the job?
Dorothy Folkema: You went and put in an application. I had a friend, her name was Nellie and
she needed to go to work too, and I had to, so we both went and put our
application in and was hired. And oh, then, by that time, they hired everybody.
Anybody and everybody.
James Smither: So what kind of work were you doing there?
Dorothy Folkema: I did, I wound armatures.
James Smither: Can you describe that, physically, a little bit for people who don’t know what
that is?
Dorothy Folkema: Well, it’s a little gadget that goes in a motor, that’s all I can tell you. And you
wind wires in it and it’s precision work. And it was very, 14:00 very pleasant
work. Everyone was very pleasant to work with and you had a quota to get out
and I really enjoyed.
James Smither: So did you work in a big room with a bunch of other people?
Dorothy Folkema: Oh, yeah, you had your table and chair. Table and chair and the girl brought
your equipment to you and…
James Smither: So did you talk to other people while you…?
Dorothy Folkema: Oh yeah, you could, sure. Sure.
James Smither: And about how many people working together in the same place, do you think?
Dorothy Folkema: We probably had about ten or twelve.
James Smither: Ok, so it’s not a gigantic…
Dorothy Folkema: Well, there was people all around us in different sections working.
James Smither: Right. And you had your own particular section. And what sort of people are
working alongside you?
Dorothy Folkema: Oh, just people like myself, some of them were single girls, some were
married, husbands overseas, like myself.
James Smither: But all women?
�Dorothy Folkema: All women. Mmhmm. 15:00 The men, any man was young, under 18, or
crippled that couldn’t go to the service.
James Smither: Now were there men in other parts of the factory?
Dorothy Folkema: Oh, yeah, older men.
James Smither: Older men.
Dorothy Folkema: Older men, beyond going.
James Smither: Ok, and what did this job pay? Do you remember that?
Dorothy Folkema: .75 cents an hour.
James Smither: Ok, so it was a lot better than packing cookies then. All right. Now was your
husband sending money home or did part of his paycheck come to you?
Dorothy Folkema: Well, the government gave you $50 a month. And you got $20 if you had a
child, so I got $80 a month.
James Smither: So were you able to save anything at that time?
Dorothy Folkema: Oh, yes! I lived on my money that I made and I, yes. Can I tell you this story?
James Smither: Yes.
Dorothy Folkema: We had bought 16:00 a house in May. Jane was born in February and we
bought a little house in May. And it had renters in it, and we stayed, living with
his mother, and kept the renters in the house. They were an old couple. And they
paid $20 a month rent. So I got my $80 a month, and my $20 a month, and I put it
together, and paid for the house. Yep, and then saved money after that.
James Smither: Now, once your husband had headed off to go into training, did you write to each
other?
Dorothy Folkema: Oh yes, every day. We didn’t know what to write. I remember being so bored.
What do you write every day? You go to work, you get up in the morning, you
have breakfast, you go to work, you hitchhike, you get a ride with a truck driver,
you get to work. It was the same old thing every day, it was so bored. 17:00
And he couldn’t write anything. He wrote practically all the time, if he could, but
he couldn’t…
James Smither: He couldn’t say much.
�Dorothy Folkema: He couldn’t say much.
James Smither: Now, when he did write to you, did his letters sometimes come back with things
cut out of them?
Dorothy Folkema: Oh, yeah.
James Smither: Blacked out?
Dorothy Folkema: About all were blacked out.
James Smither: And did he also use the V Mails?
Dorothy Folkema: The V Mail. That was later, a little later on and then he used V Mail.
James Smither: Can you describe what the V Mail was or what it looked like?
Dorothy Folkema: It was a sheet of paper and it was, I think it was photographed. And you got
the photograph copy.
James Smither: So it almost looks like a negative copy, sort of white on black or whatever.
Dorothy Folkema: Yes.
James Smither: [unintelligible] Now those hold up pretty well.
Dorothy Folkema: Oh yeah, yeah. I wish I’d kept more of them.
James Smither: All right, now, did it help him to get letters from you, did he appreciate that?
Dorothy Folkema: Oh, yes, uh huh. I remember once incident, I wrote him a letter, if you ever
come home, I’ll rub your back every night. 18:00 And so he cut that out and
saved it. [laughs]
James Smither: Now, did he get to come home at all?
Dorothy Folkema: Oh no, no, no. Well, when he was in basic, yes. Not when he was in basic. He
was in basic training for six weeks, in Stark, Florida. And then after basic training
he came home, and then was going to be shipped right out. And he would’ve been
shipped to Italy, but then he got pneumonia, and was in the hospital, and then
came home on a convalescent furlough. And then was shipped right out from
there. And then he went to England, of course, I didn’t know that, but he went to
England.
James Smither: Well what was it like having him home again, just a little while after he got
started?
�Dorothy Folkema: Well, it was a pleasure, we had fun and went visiting, and course, we had the
baby and…
James Smither: And then once he heads out again, how long 19:00 did it take for you to hear
from him?
Dorothy Folkema: It was quite a while before I heard from him, and we were going to get this
little thing going where he put my middle initial, but we never could solve it. It
would be Dorothy I or E, or whatever, but we never could solve it.
James Smither: And that was supposed to tip off where he was.
Dorothy Folkema: Yeah, where he was, but he never could tell where he was. I had no idea
whether he went to Japan or whether he went to Europe.
James Smither: And then, you had mentioned before, you didn’t follow the news of the war, did
that change once he was in, or?
Dorothy Folkema: I followed to a certain extent, but no, when you have a family at home, how
can you listen to a radio that much? His mother, of course, I remember invasion
morning, 20:00 they were shouting “Invasion!” on the corner and selling papers
and all the invasion, we knew then he was in Europe. We knew that. We knew he
was in the invasion. And that was a dread. That was a hard time.
James Smither: And then how long after D-Day was it before you heard from him?
Dorothy Folkema: It was probably months. But a long time.
James Smither: So you really had no idea where he was.
Dorothy Folkema: I had no idea.
James Smither: Now was this a period when they were sending out telegrams to people
which…?
Dorothy Folkema: Yes, they were sending out telegrams, I think that somebody delivered a
telegram.
James Smither: If they were told that somebody was wounded or somebody was missing or
something like that.
Dorothy Folkema: Uh huh. And we had girls I worked with lost their husband. Or their husband,
as mine was, 21:00 wounded.
James Smither: And do you remember getting that notification.
�Dorothy Folkema: Oh, yes, I was a work and luckily that day, I had drove my car. Which was a
rarity because you didn’t have the gas, my tires weren’t good, and you were
always afraid of a breakdown. In fact, I worked on my own car, put in a head
gasket. And washed it, and to this day, I wash my own car. A girl came up to me,
the lead lady and says, you’re wanted at home. Well, I knew. It was in February.
And it was icy and I fell and I cut my knee, trying to get out in a hurry, and I got
home and the telegram was there, that he had been wounded in both legs and right
elbow. That’s all it said. 22:00 That’s what you’re left hanging with for weeks.
Then I got a little card that says, “progressing well.” Finally I got a letter from
him, and it says, “[unintelligible], but I’m sleeping between sheets for the first
time in months.” He was in the hospital. Then he was, the hospital was bombed,
while he was in the hospital, and one of the nurses right next to him was killed.
James Smither: Was that in England?
Dorothy Folkema: Mmhmm, that was in England, on the buzz bombs. He’ll tell you about the
buzz bombs. When you heard them it was safe, when they stopped, they were
landing. And he was in the hospital for three months.
James Smither: So pretty much until the end of the war, then, at that point.
Dorothy Folkema: Then he came out, no—
James Smither: Well, at least the end of the war in Europe. 23:00
Dorothy Folkema: No, no. He was in the hospital. Then he went into inactive service, and he
went into Belgium. Went into Brussels, Belgium. And he maintain?????, a
sergeant to a building there, and he told about taking Eisenhower up in the
elevator. And he sent, then he sent things home, sent boxes home, he even had our
little girl a white fur coat. And he got acquainted with the natives there, the
Belgium people and was invited for dinner, and then, of course, he had it real
good. Then, the war was over and he was mustered out, to his points, by his
points. And we counted points. Got so many points for being married, so many
points for having a child, so many points for every battle he was in. 24:00
Which he was in the Battle of the Bulge and the Hurtgen Forest, and…
James Smither: Yes, I believe he was in the First Division, which did a lot of fighting.
Dorothy Folkema: He was in the First Division, Sixteenth Infantry.
James Smither: And D-Day, all the way into the Battle of the Bulge, and that would add up a fair
number of points.
�Dorothy Folkema: But he talks, he doesn’t, he talked more of the Hurtgen Forest, he said that
was the worst. Worst of the Battle of the Bulge, to him, anyway.
James Smither: Right, that was particularly unpleasant fighting and it went on and on and on.
Dorothy Folkema: On and on. Mmhmm.
James Smither: Yeah, at least D-Day was short.
Dorothy Folkema: We used to go down in Florida to a memorial for Battle of the Bulge, and all
the Battle of the Bulge guys, men, were there and it was fun to hear all of them,
their comments, they all had stories to tell.
James Smither: Now, your husband himself wasn’t much of a talker.
Dorothy Folkema: No, no, no, no. You couldn’t get much words out of him. In fact, when he
came home from service, I knew nothing of what 25:00 he went through. Not a
clue. He went on with his life and never said a word. He never had any hang-ups,
he never had any problems, a lot of women were saying, “Oh my goodness, my
husband wakes up screaming,” never had that, never. I don’t know how I could’ve
handled it, if I did, I probably would’ve but I didn’t.
James Smither: That was one of the things at that time, the expectation was for a lot of these men
that they would stay quiet and you didn’t normally talk about that kind of thing.
Dorothy Folkema: He wasn’t talkative.
James Smither: He wasn’t talkative to you.
Dorothy Folkema: No.
James Smither: That did eventually change, though, he did start to tell his story.
Dorothy Folkema: Well, he did start that, when he started, then everybody, “Well! What’s
happened here?” You know, he did.
James Smither: Now, what sort of effect, do you think it had on you, 26:00 to kind of go
through that experience of having your husband drafted and taken off and you’re
having to just change your life and go in a different work and start to raise
children on your own? What kind of effect did that have on you?
Dorothy Folkema: I think it grew me up. [laughs] You grow up at kind of a faster rate, but still,
back in those days, women depended on their husbands for decisions, and the first
thing I wrote, I, in the house, which I was renting out, the furnace went,
something had to be done to the furnace, so I write to him, in service, and ask him
�what had to be done, was I to get a new furnace or get the furnace repaired? Well,
I get a letter back, “do what you think is best.” Well, I guess I’ve got to make
some decisions here.
James Smither: So did you get used to that pretty quickly?
Dorothy Folkema: Quite quick. [laughs] Quite quick. 27:00
James Smither: Did you, as you were trying to do that kind of thing, I mean, you’re managing
property, you’re working at a job, and so forth, was it sometimes difficult to get
people to listen to you or take you seriously because you were a woman or, was
that…?
Dorothy Folkema: I think people, I think the whole world started to change. The whole world
started to change. Women were home, doing housework and taking care of the
kids and I think women started to go out to work, they knew there was a world out
there for them and they were shocked. The whole world changed then. There was
no more of this little mouse in the corner.
James Smither: All right, you kind of had to take care of yourself and you did.
Dorothy Folkema: Yeah.
James Smither: Ok, now, after he came back, did you quit your job, or did you stay working?
Dorothy Folkema: No. You were immediately done working the war work was done. And I think
I drew unemployment for a little while, no then I didn’t go back to work and
wishing for another child, 28:00 which took me six years, for this one out here
[points]. [laughs] So, finally then, I had another little baby, kind of spoiled her.
James Smither: Now, what did you do for child care at that point, did your…?
Dorothy Folkema: You mean during the war? Why, my mother-in-law. I had it made. I got up in
the morning and went to work, she took care of my little girl.
James Smither: Now, were there women you were working with who had more trouble
finding…?
Dorothy Folkema: Didn’t, they had a terrible time. And I heard horror stories. They didn’t know
what to do, they couldn’t find, they had to go to work, they couldn’t find
somebody to take care of their children, and some of them were mistreated, that
one woman said her father was mean to her. She had to stay home. And I mean,
she didn’t get the check through to help her. And I’ve heard 29:00 a lot of
horror stories. I didn’t have that. I had a wonderful family, and we had fun and on
�a very occasion we went out to eat, on occasion, and my mother-in-law and I’d
take a little ride—a little ride, no gas, you know—and we’d go to the drug store,
which drug stores had ice cream places then, and we’d have a sundae, that was
our treat.
James Smither: Did you go to movies, or?
Dorothy Folkema: No. Not too much, no. I can’t remember ever going to a movie.
James Smither: Was that something your in-laws didn’t approve of?
Dorothy Folkema: I suppose, I suppose not. And how do you get there? There wasn’t that many
around.
James Smither: Right, cause you’re not right in town.
Dorothy Folkema: No.
James Smither: Right where the theaters were.
Dorothy Folkema: Occasionally, now once a month, there was a church in Godwin Heights that
30:00 had a dinner, and the girls I worked with would give me a dime for gas,
they’d pitch in a dime, and course, I don’t know how much gas was, couldn’t
have been very much, and we’d go out to Godwin Heights for dinner, to a church.
That was a treat. A big deal! [laughs]
James Smither: All right. Now, if you wanted to compare, sort of, what life was like for young
families then as opposed to now, what sort of basic differences would you point
to?
Dorothy Folkema: There was no help then. Young families now can get food stamps, they can
get welfare help, they can get all kinds of things out there for them. There was
nothing. There was no help.
James Smither: Yeah, this was a [unintelligible] there had been 31:00 New Deal programs and
things that had gone in, I mean, there were some beginnings of a welfare system
or something like that.
Dorothy Folkema: Well, it started a little bit helping, but it wasn’t advertised, or you didn’t know
it. Things weren’t expensive then either. I remember a doctor appointment was
$6. And I always paid for the doctor, I mean, I never ever walked out of a doctor’s
office without paying the bill. Never.
James Smither: Well, things were more affordable then, than they are now, I expect, for that.
�Dorothy Folkema: You managed. That came first. In fact, when my husband came home, my
daughter had eye trouble, and I had, we didn’t have insurance, there wasn’t even a
doctor then. I did some research on that one, 32:00 finally found a doctor in
Grand Rapids, that would take care of it, did for years, she still has eye trouble.
James Smither: Now, to think back during that period when Harold was away and you were
raising your daughter and so forth, are there particular events and things that
happened, particular memories that come back to you?
Dorothy Folkema: Yeah, my car broke down. [laughs] Yes. It wasn’t running good and there was
a gas station on the corner and that man was very helpful to me. And I was scared
to drive to the gas pump. I didn’t drive very good, you know. And my brother,
young brother-in-law, would take the car over and get gas, well when the car
wasn’t good, he’d give us some pointers. And he said, you’re going to have to put
in a new head gasket. So my little sister-in-law and I, and I think she’s probably
16, 33:00 we tore that car apart. We fixed it, we put a new head gasket in it.
And that man, that gas station man, his name was Cooper, he came over and
tightened the head, the bolts down for us, cause we didn’t have strength enough to
tighten the bolts down. [laughs]
James Smither: Well how did you know what to do, to take the engine apart?
Dorothy Folkema: I don’t know, we just knew what to do. [laughs] Just, he said, you got to take
the head gasket off and you have to get a new head gasket, put it on.
James Smither: Well had you ever worked on any machines out at the farm or anything like that,
had some idea of what an engine looked like?
Dorothy Folkema: No. But she was pretty smart on that stuff.
James Smither: Ok.
Dorothy Folkema: My little sister-in-law was pretty smart on that stuff.
James Smither: Well that is another thing that’s a little bit different, you had a lot of people in
your spare time to do things like take cars apart in those days.
Dorothy Folkema: Oh, well. And cars aren’t complicated like they are now. And then I’d ask
different ones, people to help me, and course, I always washed the car. Did it.
34:00 You just did it. You didn’t have any choice, you just did it.
James Smither: Now were there shortages on certain kinds of things, were there things you
wanted that you couldn’t get?
�Dorothy Folkema: Oh, yes, you couldn’t get clothes, you couldn’t get shoes. Nylons! [shakes
head] Oh, that was a disaster. I stood in many a lines to get nylons. My sister-inlaw and I’d go downtown shopping, we’d had a [unintelligible] right where we’d
park by the railroad tracks, and we’d go downtown shopping and stand in line to
get nylons. [laughs] [unintelligible]
James Smither: Did it ever work?
Dorothy Folkema: Yeah, oh sure.
James Smither: You had the right line at the right time.
Dorothy Folkema: Yeah.
James Smither: Were there other particular things that you really missed, or didn’t get a lot of
then?
Dorothy Folkema: No, because you didn’t have it anyways, so you didn’t miss it.
James Smither: Ok. All right. Are there other things you would like to add to the story here
before we close out? 35:00
Dorothy Folkema: Well, I know I stopped using sugar in my coffee. Because they gave us a little
pack of sugar and I kept… I’d go down to the dime store and get a cup of, get a
coffee and whenever I got coffee, I saved the packet, and my sister-in-law did too,
and then we’d make fudge. [laughs]
James Smither: [laughs] That’d take a lot of sugar packets. All right then. Thank you for coming
in and telling me your story today.
Dorothy Folkema: Well, I don’t think it’s a interesting story, but it’s a story.
James Smither: Well, all the information that we’ve got here is stuff that… You never know
what someone will do with this fifty years from now.
35:42
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
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Identifier
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FolkemaD
Title
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Folkema, Dorothy (Interview transcript and video), 2009
Creator
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Folkema, Dorothy
Description
An account of the resource
Dorothy Folkema was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, in 1922. She left high school after three years and went to work in a factory. She met her future husband, Harold Folkema, in 1939, and they were married in 1941. When the war started, she quit her job to protect her husband's deferment status, but he was drafted in 1943 and wound up on Omaha Beach on D-Day (see his interview in this archive). She had a child to take care of by then, and discusses different aspects of home front life while her husband was away.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Women
Language
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eng
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2009-10-27
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d2dde65c408cb20c215ebd63ce8ec90b.mp4
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/71bd0377bafb7999d4b8b6b85aad90a3.pdf
cbb90a6d6eefee30b316b1e02f18c08b
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Jack Floyd
(129:15)
Born in St Charles, MI July 2nd 1922
Pre Military
Had to walk two miles to school in Lake Orion MI
Family moved to Pontiac for only a year, then back to Lake Orion, Detroit area.
He describes his friends. Played Football.
Kid got killed playing football, he was not present.
Left school in Tenth grade
December of 1939 he was trapping Muskrats
Got a dollar a hide, ate the rest.
(12:15) CCC
In January 1940 Enlisted in the Civilian Conservation Corps in White Cloud, MI. Camp
on the White River
Did surveying the “old fashioned way” measured and surveying via chains
Lived in wooden barracks, he was 30 dollars per month, was issued cigarettes. (bought
them at CCC)
Discharged from CCC later that year.
Father got him a job at a tool and die shop until September when he got laid off.
Went back to trapping muskrats.
Reenlisted in the CCC in December, worked as surveyor and clerk.
(22:35) Pre-war Army
Spring of 1941 enlisted in the army at Fort Custer.
�Co. B/ 7th Engineer Battalion 5th Infantry Division “Red Diamond”
Was made a clerk because he knew how to type
Participated in field exercises in the lower Mississippi valley.
11th Infantry Regiment was sent to Iceland In September of 1941
Remained in Fort Custer.
On December 7, he was listening to the radio with his future wife.
(41:15) War Starts for Jack
He remained a clerk.
Went to Fort Hamilton, New York via traincar. Got Shots and inoculations, got on the
boat.
Large swells on the North Atlantic in January arrived in Iceland.
He built fortifications (pillboxes), in Iceland for 19 months.
He gives a description of his environs.
Became a squad leader, became a squad leader, then a corporal.
Victims of German submarines would wash ashore; it was his responsibility to bury hem.
The rest of the 5th Division arrived in Iceland
(54:55) England and Ireland
Moved to England, and then transferred to Northern Ireland.
Became sergeant in Ireland
Training 82nd Airborne, 2nd Infantry Division, 8th Infantry Division.
His unit loaded these divisions for the Normandy Invasion.
The 5th shipped out towards the end of June.
(102:15) Continental Europe
Front was 12 miles from the shore when they arrived, they relieved 1st Engineers/1st
Infantry Division
Made supply sergeant immediately before crossing the channel
�Disembarked 9th of July, immediately relieved the 1st Infantry
Engaged enemy, allies began to run low on fuel. Took Paris
Moving a 60 or 70 miles a day. The 3rd Army (Patton) created, with his division made
part of it. Met Patton (But can’t remember where or when)
Army ran out of gas at Metz. Buddy Alex got killed by surprise mortar attack. Jack
narrowly escaped death. (1:19:00)
Germans attacked on the 19th of December, the 5th ordered to link with the 101st in
Bastogne.
(END OF DISC)
Disc Two
(00:00)Bulge (cont.)
Was stationed in Kaansdorf, just returned from chow, sat down shell landed nearby,
threw him into air.
Was stationed on the Saar River across from the Germans, talked to general Patton, was
putting in minefield. (7:15)
(8:20) Crossing the Rhine
Unit crossed the River over reconstructed foot bridges. They reached their objective, only
to run right into machine gun nest. He jumped into a depression, but was shot in his
ankle.
Due to his injuries, he was evacuated to 52nd General Hospital unit in England until April.
Upon recovery he was sent Back to Germany via Luxemburg, stationed in Nuremburg
replacement hospital.
Reunited with his unit in Czechoslovakia
Regular army members of the 5th were separated to form the peacetime 5th Infantry
Division.
Oberammergau passion play
(20:30) Returned Home, Marriage
�4th of August, Returned by boat to Newport News, VA
Proposed and decided, and actually got license in the same day, in his military uniform.
Went back to school, finished High School.
(27:00) Reflections
3 sons eligible for the Vietnam draft. All except one went to school.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FloydJ
Title
A name given to the resource
Floyd, Jack (Interview outline and video), 2005
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Floyd, Jack
Description
An account of the resource
Jack Floyd served in the United States Army, 1st Engineers, 5th Infantry Division, during WW II. He was part of the Third Army and describes Normandy, the Battle of the Bulge, and General Patton. He also describes trapping, skinning and eating muskrats. He was involved in the Field Training exercises in the southern Mississippi River Valley, and was also stationed in Iceland, England, Ireland and continental Europe.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer)
Collins, Carol (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Veterans
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2005-09-01
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/862e229b1ff5975fb51489e11ec91ad3.mp4
ddfc021bbef5df3df05dd15020e23672
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PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
National Guard
Jim Flowers – Part 2
Total Time (01:46:50)
Re-Introduction / Review from Part I (00:00:02-00:07:52)
Back to the United States & Beyond (00:00:40)
Before Jim Flowers and his unit went back to the United States, they spent seven to ten days in
Kuwait as a period to just chill out from the combat they just saw; after Kuwait they headed to
their mobilization station in Ft. McCoy, Wisconsin (00:01:26)
From Ft. McCoy, Jim and his unit took a cargo plane over Lake Michigan to head back to
Michigan; they touched down at a municipal airport in Grayling, Michigan (00:03:27)
◦ As the plane was landing, he could see a parade of families waiting for the soldiers to get
back from duty and Jim called it an emotional high point in his life (00:03:59)
◦ In October 2004, Jim got offered to work at Camp Darby in Italy for three weeks and he
happily took the job (00:05:30)
▪ Although Jim and his men worked on major construction sites while at Camp Darby, he
mentions it was a “job well done” congratulations for their time in Iraq (00:06:28)
Training & Afghanistan (00:08:25)
Jim got picked up to do his first rotation in Afghanistan as an embedded trainer and advisor for
the Afghanistan security forces (the police, army, or border patrol of Afghanistan) (00:08:41)
◦ Jim and his unit trained in Michigan where a lot of it was tactical; when you look into it, the
training was really infantry training (00:10:25)
◦ The training in Michigan was primarily infantry training, small unit tactics, some
marksmanship and a little close quarters combat fundamentals (00:12:19)
◦ From there, Jim went to Ft. Riley, Kansas where the training was more in-depth; he learned
skills to train foreign forces, 120 hours of language training, cultural immersion training
(00:13:24)
◦ The Department of Defense contracted Afghan- now US citizens did language training and
cultural immersion training with the US forces; many activities would be roleplaying
scenarios where the Afghans would critique the soldiers afterwards (00:15:46)
▪ Jim and his unit headed to Afghanistan in May 2007 (00:17:30)
▪ From the airport, Jim headed to Camp Phoenix which was located in Kabul; they were at
Camp Phoenix for ten days where they were issued their assignments (00:18:22)
▪ By weeks three and four, Jim and the group saw the immensity of the training and
advising missions; the facilities and equipment were bad and the discipline of the
Afghan army was not much compared to the United States or NATO forces (00:21:18)
▪ Jim and his forces spent three months in Zormat to relieve the Afghanistan Police to
Jalalabad for training (00:23:56)
Jim described an incident at Zormat where a day prior, there was an attack by the
Taliban on the Afghan Police as he called it a reality check of what was to come
(00:26:12)
The Afghan National Civil Order Police (ANCOP) commander understood his
mission as primarily just to secure the district center in Zormat; but Jim had to
explain otherwise as there was a sort of disconnect between the overall missions
�(00:28:14)
◦ The month of January 2008 was a month long operation for Jim and his unit;
they searched the greater Zormat area (20-30 miles in radius), the intent was to
disrupt the logistics hubs of the Taliban so when they came back for their Spring
offensive, they'd come back to empty hubs (00:33:43)
◦ Overall they were pretty successful, after they set up a few security perimeters
around a village, Jim and the ANCOP team would go in and do searches for
weapons caches (00:34:51)
◦ Jim's ANCOP people performed really well at these searches which were around
30-40 officers; Jim and the US were there more as an advisory role than a
training role which is what they were trying to achieve (00:36:08)
▪ After Zormat, Jim went to assist another training team just South of
Jalalabad; he mentions this group of ANCOP people weren't as eager to trainhe comments that different forces will behave differently (00:38:27)
▪ The Minister of Education for the location South of Jalalabad received
supplies and was hoarding them and not distributing them; Jim and ANCOP
went in and got the supplies and distributed them to the village quite
peacefully- although Jim described it as a bit unnerving (00:41:13)
The Afghan attitude towards the United States really depended on what
area you were in; the more remote the location the more you had to work
to establish a relationship; it wasn't uncommon to have kids throw rocks
at US vehicles (00:44:13)
By the time Jim and his unit did two months in the Jalalabad area, they
were ready to pull out of Afghanistan; they staged some relief in place
forces and additional ANCOP forces in Ghazni and other areas
(00:45:39)
The last mission Jim did in Afghanistan was running a convoy of
ANCOP down to Ghazni to get the ANCOP situated in their area of
operation; this was around late April 2008 (00:46:26)
Some of the high points for Jim were capturing a Taliban leader in
Zormat in addition to capturing around 40 fighters there as well,
obtaining weapons caches, and response to numerous IED type incidents
(00:47:23)
◦ Jim's unit never sustained any casualties and the ANCOP had a few
wounded but overall there wasn't any casualties (00:48:07)
◦ He did have contact with people back home but the internet was
spotty; he worked out a deal with his wife- he called his wife once a
week on a satellite phone and normally e-mail her two-three times a
week if possible (00:51:14)
Back to the United States (00:52:35)
Jim went from Afghanistan to Kuwait, stayed a week there as they had a cool-down week to
decompress, flew back to Ft. Riley, Kansas for out-processing, and then landed at the
Lansing/Capital City Airport (00:54:08)
They arrived back home in late May/early June of 2008 (00:54:29)
◦ During the last couple months of Afghanistan, Jim knew he was going to fill a S3
Operations Officer position 507th Engineer Battalion, which is the battalion he commands
today (00:54:52)
�◦ In January 2009, Jim did a PCS move out to Ft. Leavonworth, Kansas to do a year long
command and general staff course- his wife went with home and his kids were grown and
out of the house at that time so it made the move a bit easier (00:55:41)
◦ At the time Jim was enrolled, the courses involved all branches of the military- army, navy,
marine as well- there was also military officers from different countries as well (00:57:11)
◦ Prior to leaving the command and general staff college, Jim was notified that he was going
to go into the executive officer position for the 507th Engineer Battalion- which was poised
for a 2010 Afghanistan deployment (which was put on hold til 2012) (00:58:34)
▪ Jim also got picked up to be the Operations Officer for the 46th Military Police
Command based out of Lansing, Michigan (00:59:16)
▪ Before re-deploying to Afghanistan, Jim had to do a commanders recon course; this took
place in January/February of 2012 with a small contingent of people and the unit was to
get in depth with the unit they were replacing and brief with them (01:04:14)
They were briefed on current tactics and procedures the Taliban were practicing
(01:04:57)
A sapper company are all combat engineers- they specialize in mine fields,
breaching obstacles, demolitions operations while a lot of the other engineer
companies are construction oriented (01:06:54)
Back to Afghanistan (01:07:30)
Jim and the unit mobilized out of Ft. Bliss, Texas in May of 2012 and then got into Afghanistan
on June 6th of 2012- they departed from Kuwait and flew into Afghanistan (01:08:57)
◦ They met up with 14th Engineer Battalion who were right in the middle of a major operation
(01:09:53)
◦ They were task-forced as “War Hammer” and took over the 14th Engineer Battalion after
two weeks and were then in the middle of a major operation, called “Operation Shrimp Net”
which was a large base closure and counter IED measure in South West Afghanistan
(01:10:36)
▪ Jim talks of mine-resistant vehicles that they had for Afghanistan but didn't have for
Iraq; if their vehicles were hit they would take some damage but the soldiers would walk
away and that wasn't the case for the non-mine-resistant vehicles in Iraq (01:12:36)
▪ He mentions that some of the IED's could be detonated by somebody who was watching
them (01:13:37)
▪ The detection rate for IED's for Jim's group was about 70-80%, so three out of ten they
found the hard way (01:14:53)
▪ Sometimes Jim found himself in need of their vehicles to be fixed and in some situations
contractors would fly out to where they were and fix what had to be done (01:18:21)
Camp Leatherneck and Camp Bastion hadn't sustained an attack for over a year
when they were hit once again when Jim and his unit were there (01:20:02)
Around Herat, there was a particularly dangerous place called the “Devils Elbow”
where there was IED after IED laid which was mostly done by opium growers
(01:21:31)
Jim and the unit spent a year in Afghanistan; overall the situation stayed the same
while they were there- they cleared about 250 IED's within a ten month timeframe,
built a lot of bridges, repaired bridges as well, and the situation on the ground didn't
change much if at all (01:24:42)
As far as clearing the area from the Taliban, Jim comments that it stayed pretty much
neutral for that time period (01:25:35)
�
The 205th Corps of the Afghan National Army had quite a bit of presence in that area
as well- the ANCOP was present as well along with border patrol, regular Afghan
Police Forces in place (01:26:00)
Jim and his unit worked a lot with other American and NATO forces; specifically the
1st Marine Expeditionary Forces, the British Infantry units, and others as well
(01:28:00)
Between the NATO, the British, Spanish forces, Marines, Army, and Afghan Forces,
each has their own perception of flexibility and time management as far as projects
go (01:30:54)
◦ As a 2nd in Command, Jim had to deal with two soldiers killed in action while
they were traveling back to Camp Leatherneck in a medevac vehicle; he
personally had to do the body identification (01:34:37)
◦ The whole process of what Jim dealt with was one of the most emotional events
that he had to deal with up until that time while in the military (01:35:12)
◦ There was one soldier who took the prior events very hard and had to be sent
home and wouldn't have been functional for the duration of the deployment but
overall there wasn't much battle stress or psychological stress (01:36:48)
▪ It was mandatory to spend two to three days in a battle stress clinic if an IED
did hit you (01:37:02)
▪ The main bridging operations dealt with replacing bridges that the Taliban
had previously blown up (01:40:07)
At the end of their deployment, they handed it off to the 307th Engineer
Battalion out of the 82nd Airborne Division out of Ft. Bragg, North
Carolina- they came in around February 2013 (01:41:29)
Back to the United States (01:42:39)
Jim and his unit got back to the United States in March of 2013 and arrived at Ft. Bliss and
went through all the same processing stuff as before (01:42:47)
They flew back into Battle Creek, Michigan and had a tremendous welcome by the Battle Creek
and Kalamazoo population (01:43:44)
◦ A month after Jim got back from Afghanistan he found out he was going to take command
of the 507th Engineer Battalion (01:45:01)
◦ He took command in June of 2013 (01:45:26)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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FlowersJ1565V2
Title
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Flowers, James (Interview outline and video, 2 of 2), 2014
Creator
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Flowers, James
Description
An account of the resource
Jim Flowers was born in Muskegon, Michigan in 1963. After he graduated high school, enlisted in the Air Force and did a tour on a strategic air command base on Guam. Back in the US, he completed college while still in the Air Force, and then spent a few years in civilian jobs before entering the Michigan National Guard in 1991. Commissioned as an officer in 1993, he eventually took a full time position with the Guard, and deployed to Iraq in 2003 and to Afghanistan in 2007 and 2012. He currently commands the 507th Engineer Battalion based in Kalamazoo, Michigan.
Contributor
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Smither, James (Interviewer)
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
United States. National Guard
Language
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eng
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2014-01-23
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/827947c59451a08527b5ffb49a2a7b36.mp4
ce501f6593517aaa9bda28d309b3c98f
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1f6f8704f342173c70b6cebb8bfb9e27.pdf
023a8b119878fa108df114b564ed5aa3
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
National Guard
Jim Flowers – Part 1
Total Time (01:40:56)
Introduction / Basic Training (00:00:08)
Jim Flowers was born in Muskegon, Michigan in 1963 (00:00:30)
◦ After graduating from high school, Jim entered the United States Air Force (00:01:06)
◦ Jim had one uncle serve in the Vietnam War and another uncle serve in the Korean War; but
he primarily wanted to join because he was a high school athlete and sought out a physical
challenge along with competition (00:01:35)
◦ He shipped off to basic training in the September of 1981 at Lackland Air Force Base (AFB)
in Texas; after basic training Jim was assigned to Andersen AFB in Guam (00:02:44)
▪ His basic training was only six weeks long- physically there wasn't much of a challenge
for Jim because he wrestled and ran cross-country in high school (00:03:06)
▪ He entered basic training with a few of his high school class mates and met up with even
more recruits from Michigan whom he still keeps in touch with (00:04:28)
After basic training, Jim entered into Technical School Training; these were about
four to five weeks long and dealt with instructions to the various types of heavy
equipment (00:06:30)
After that training, Jim entered a six week course of Air Base Ground Defense; it
was more of a mini-infantry school with heavy weapons qualification and
instruction- it was Jim's biggest challenge thus far (00:07:26)
Once he completed training at Texas, Jim went through a series of administrative
checks and travel instructions; from there he packed his bags and flew from
Lackland to San Francisco, California to Honolulu, Hawaii to Guam- all his flights
were commercial (00:08:59)
Jim remembers watching the news and hearing certain stories from his relatives
about the general backlash towards the war in Vietnam and the Vietnam veterans
(00:11:07)
He knew from a very young age that he wanted to go into the military and that
backlash that permeated about Vietnam did not deter him from his decision
(00:11:19)
Post Basic Training (00:11:20)
Jim was placed at Andersen AFB in Guam which was a strategic air command base; they had
several B-52 bombers, transient tankers and other aircraft as well that stopped by for fuel and
maintenance (00:12:27)
◦ Jim's primary responsibility was to repair flight lines if needed and heavy equipment
maintenance (00:12:48)
◦ He was also part of something called a “Red Horse” squadron which was a deployable air
force engineer element that on order could deploy to nearby places (00:13:06)
◦ Jim worked with the 43rd Engineering Squadron while in Guam- around 500 squad members
(00:13:29)
▪ For the most part, the squad was between the ages of 20 and 30 years old (00:14:10)
▪ They physical and daily routine of the job wasn't much for Jim to deal with at that age;
�▪
he did not mind the climate of Guam and notes that the beaches were quite nice- overall
he enjoyed his tour over there (00:15:37)
Predominantly the military was well received by the civilians of Guam unless there was
someone that misbehaved; unfortunately Jim notes that that was always an issue as
certain servicemen broke laws and local ordinances (00:16:27)
Jim was part of Temporary Duty (TDY) which assigned him to Darwin, Australia to
work with the Australian Royal Air Force (00:17:02)
Additionally, his Red Horse Squadron supported an exercise in Korea for a few
weeks; they trained as if they were supporting a combat operation in Korea- they
built runways and participated in some levels of demolition (00:18:02)
◦ When Jim initially signed up for duty, he signed on for six years; at that time he
had a choice between four and six years and the six year enlistment had an
immediate promotion to E3 (00:20:28)
◦ After Guam, Jim went to F.E Warren AFB in Cheyenne, Wyoming (00:20:55)
▪ Jim was still worked as a heavy equipment operator and worked on other
civil engineering projects throughout missile fields (00:21:36)
▪ He was assigned to the 90th Civil Engineer Squadron and there was around
500 members or so- similar to the group in Guam; he was part of a squadron
similar to Red Horse called “Prime Beef” which worked continentally
(00:22:22)
Jim enrolled in Larimie County Community College in Cheyenne; he
completed two years there and immediately enrolled into Chapman
University to pursue a Bachelors degree (00:23:06)
Jim got out of the Air Force and graduated college in May of 1987
(00:24:04)
Jim remembers going through readiness exercises near the end of the
Cold War several times a year (00:26:27)
Civilian Life (00:27:00)
At the time of the end of his six year enlistment, Jim and his family made the decision to get out
of the military and to use his degree for a civilian profession; he moved from Cheyenne back to
Michigan as he took a job as probation officer in Muskegon (00:27:45)
Jim notes that the criminal justice system is a very challenging environment to work in and he
knew we would not want to work there for his whole life- two years into it he decided it was not
for him (00:28:22)
◦ After that, Jim worked at the Friend of the Court office which does child custody and child
support enforcement; he did that for several years and picked up knowledge in terms of civil
litigation areas (00:28:54)
▪ He decided to go to law school in 1991 and moved to Lansing, Michigan to attend
Cooley Law School (00:29:14)
▪ At the time of Desert Storm, Jim decided he wanted to help the military out in some
capacity; he talked to an officer and was put in a National Guard Armory 30 miles from
his home (00:30:32)
National Guard Duty (00:30:32)
Jim joined the Michigan Army National Guard in September 1991 (00:30:40)
◦ He focused and balanced working with his officer commission program and going to law
�school at the same time- he graduated Cooley Law School in 1997 and passed the State Bar
exam in 1998 (00:31:39)
◦ He was also commissioned as an officer as of 1993 (00:31:50)
▪ His first job as an officer was platoon leader of the 1432nd Engineer Company based out
of Wyoming, Michigan (00:31:58)
Jim stayed with that company for a couple of years- until late 1995/early 1996 and
then was reassigned 1436th Engineer Company out of Montague, Michigan
(00:34:16)
Within a year, Jim was promoted to company executive officer- which was 2nd in
command of the company; he had to focus on personnel and administrative logistics,
maintenance and operational planning as well (00:35:15)
Jim stayed with the 1436 unit until 2000 where he was then assigned as the
commander of the 1438th Engineer Detachment out of Camp Grayling, Michigan
(00:36:41)
Jim's primary mission while in Montague was to be tasked to San Diego, California
to reinforce the Tijuana border roads in anti-drug missions (00:37:11)
◦ Jim commanded the 1438th which specialized in utilities; his personnel was
between 60 and 70 people where he had carpenters, plumbers, and other utility
workers (00:38:40)
◦ By November 2001, Jim got word that his unit was going to deploy to Iraq
(00:39:20)
▪ Jim notes that his unit did not receive a lot of details regarding their
deployment to Iraq, which was not uncommon (00:40:57)
▪ He mentions he got his timeframe a little off and did not actually receive
word of going to Iraq until 2003 (00:41:56)
He actually got word of deploying to Iraq in the November of 2002
where the build up of troops occurred (00:42:53)
The 1438th engineer detachment was sent to Kuwait to reach Iraq; Jim
flew from Ft. McCoy in Wisconsin to Germany and then onto Kuwait
International Airport (00:44:02)
Deployment to Iraq (00:44:02)
Jim Flowers got the instruction to meet up with the 101st Airborne Division in Mosul, Iraq
(00:44:37)
◦ Jim's equipment arrived two months before they did to Kuwait which meant other units
pilfered through and used what they could- the equipment was already in use or in bad
shape (00:45:36)
◦ He and his unit stayed at Camp Virginia which was close to the Kuwait/Iraq border; at that
point it was a big staging area (00:45:59)
◦ Initially Jim led a reconnaissance mission from Kuwait to Mosul to familiarize with the
routes and areas; it is a three day convoy (00:47:14)
▪ There was a culture shock for Jim as he crossed the DMZ border into Iraq as his unit
went in on their own without protection (00:48:08)
▪ He notes that the area he crossed into reminded him very much of a 3rd world nation
opposed to Kuwait (00:48:37)
Jim got a sense that they were immediately in a combat operation; seeing battle
damage that occurred from the initial entry triggered this (00:49:30)
�
While on their convoy, Jim's unit took mortar rounds while staying at Balad Air
Base; this was his first exposure that he realized he was in a war (00:51:52)
From Mosul to Balad, Jim and his unit encountered a few broke down Humvee
trucks and picked them up; an iraqi truck spilled into them and fortunately their was
not an explosion- to this day Jim doesn't know if they were insurgents or what
(00:54:55)
◦ Jim and his unit made the return trip and pretty much encountered the same
things as before- rocketed and or mortared which was a daily/nightly occurrence
(00:56:11)
◦ It took no longer than a week for Jim's unit to become fully operational while
they were in Mosul (00:58:42)
▪ The Mosul Air Field was their main mission- to maintain the civil
engineering infrastructure on the air field (00:58:57)
▪ Jim comments that there was a lot of insurgency activity surrounding them;
they were rocketed or mortared if not daily, every other day (01:01:08)
Jim and his unit were fortunate and never took any casualties while in
Iraq- he did send some of his soldiers home with medical issues as he
notes the drastic climate change between the midwest and the Middle
East (01:02:09)
Equipment damage happened quite a bit; vehicles were sprayed with
bullets and shrapnel as well as additional battle damage (01:03:29)
◦ Jim and his crew spent eight months in Mosul; from June 2003 to
January/February 2004 (01:03:43)
▪ There was a shift in mood in Mosul after Uday Hussein (eldest
son of Saddam Hussein) and Qusay Hussein (son of Saddam
Hussein) were killed; a celebratory mood but a notion of who was
going to run things next (01:05:00)
▪ There were celebratory firings into the sky after it was announced
via radio that Saddam Hussein had been killed; part of this is the
large Kurdish population in Mosul- the Kurds were part of
targeted killings by Saddam previously (01:07:01)
▪ Maintaining basic services and utilities in Iraq was a tremendous
issue at that time and probably so even now, comments Jim
(01:09:10)
▪ Once the 101st airborne was finished with their assignment, Jim's
unit was reassigned as well to the 2nd Brigade 25th Infantry
Division in Kirkuk, Iraq (01:11:31)
▪ Jim's unit went in to areas where other army units needed defense
perimeters and measures that were poorly built and fixed them up
for them (01:13:35)
▪ The 65th Engineer Battalion based out of Hawaii was shorthanded and Jim sliced out different parts of his units to go and
help them; they had the job of collecting explosives from
Saddam's prior war with Iran and to blow them up (01:15:16)
▪ By April of 2004, it Jim and his units' time to push out of Iraq;
they were replaced by a similar unit (01:16:48)
▪ Jim spent two weeks training the unit that was coming in to
replace them (01:17:23)
�▪
▪
▪
▪
▪
▪
▪
Part of Jim's work was to work with local Iraqis in Kirkuk and
Mosul to get local contractors to do work as well (01:19:09)
Jim worked with interpreter's and notes that probably around 90%
or more were university students that were ready and welcome to
a change in Iraq (01:20:59)
He felt more comfortable in the Kurdish capital of Kirkuk than
anywhere else- you could pretty much guarantee that you were
not going to get hit by IED's or insurgent attacks there (01:21:49)
Opposite of Kirkuk was the Baghdad where he and his unit got
glares from locals (01:22:22)
For a few minutes, Jim explains an issue he had with a few
insurgent trucks while leaving; his units hit an occupant of the
truck and they called a medevac in to treat the wounded insurgent
(01:27:14)
Jim describes going from the Iraqi/Kuwaiti border as a high
tension to a relaxed feeling (01:27:40)
The military gave Jim's unit a few weeks to decompress in
Kuwait and clean off the equipment (01:28:21)
Post Iraq (01:28:59)
May/June of 2004 Jim and his unit flew back to Ft. McCoy to do some demobilization
activities, medical things, and then were sent back home (01:28:59)
◦ Jim notes that even in 2004 the military didn't really know what they know today about
mental illness prevention; there were some suicide prevention events and they met with
social workers as well- once they got back to Michigan the National Guard did everything
they could to take care of them (01:30:12)
◦ He felt pretty peaceful for the first few months after he got back from Iraq; nothing that was
going on in the states was comparable to what happened in Iraq for Jim (01:31:23)
◦ After awhile, that feeling wears off and you have to kind of face the emotions eventually;
the experience is different for every soldier Jim notes (01:31:46)
▪ Jim did another over seas deployment training mission several months after he got back
from Iraq; He spent three weeks in Italy (01:33:06)
▪ He took his unit to Camp Darby in Pisa, Italy- they did their standard utility work; basic
road repair and landscaping as well (01:33:31)
The Italians were quite receptive and some even employed by the military and
worked on the base as well (01:34:20)
▪ In Jim's unit, about 10% of the soldiers were female (01:34:44)
He mentions that the female soldiers are just as capable as their male counterparts
and are true assets to the military (01:35:37)
After Italy, Jim was promoted to Major and assigned as a logistics officer for the
Engineer Brigade of the 38th Infantry Division- another Michigan National Guard
unit (01:35:56)
◦ Jim was tasked to Afghanistan to work with a brigade sized unit who specifically
were supposed to train the Afghan Army and Police force around 2007
(01:37:13)
◦ Jim and his unit trained at Ft. Riley, Kansas for four months; they trained on
Afghan culture and 120 hours of training on the language as well plus additional
�combat training (01:37:47)
▪ He mentions the Global War on Terror sent a message to the United States:
Be adaptable, be ready to take on non-standard missions (01:39:38)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FlowersJ1565V1
Title
A name given to the resource
Flowers, James (Interview outline and video, 1 of 2), 2014
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Flowers, James
Description
An account of the resource
Jim Flowers was born in Muskegon, Michigan in 1963. After he graduated high school, enlisted in the Air Force and did a tour on a strategic air command base on Guam. Back in the US, he completed college while still in the Air Force, and then spent a few years in civilian jobs before entering the Michigan National Guard in 1991. Commissioned as an officer in 1993, he eventually took a full time position with the Guard, and deployed to Iraq in 2003 and to Afghanistan in 2007 and 2012. He currently commands the 507th Engineer Battalion based in Kalamazoo, Michigan.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
United States. National Guard
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-01-23
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/01c4bcf64db203d9ac063fb8e510db85.mp4
0fda8ad4e2baa2033ed4a63243d09637
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/89eb8a14c2231b51662158b839653718.pdf
ea2a3f43be6646caacbbd6fa576aac5d
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview Notes
Length: 24:00
Jack Henry Flory
Vietnam War Veteran
United States Army: 1968 to 1970
4th Infantry Div.
(00:49) Pre-enlistment:
• He went to Michigan State University where he graduated and soon after was drafted
• Parents were not surprised by his enlistment, but a little worried
• He felt it was something he had to do
(1:23) Enlistment/Training:
• After physical he was sent to Kentucky for basic training (8 weeks long)
• Flew down to Ft.Sill, Oklahoma for artillery training
• Learned to use 105mm Howitzer (range 11 miles)
(2:54) Vietnam/Combat:
• While in Vietnam, as an assistant gunner, he was wounded by an enemy mortar round
• Mortar rounds are 82mm and are carried by infantry (10-12 rounds)
• His position was the first to be hit by the enemy mortar
• His position was defended with shelters made from sand bags
• Moved every 5-7 days
• In the attack on his position 25 soldiers were wounded and 1 was killed
(5:20) Food:
• Had a Mess Sergeant with 30 years experience
• Always had good food like: eggs, bacon, sandwiches, soups, casseroles, pork roast, and
beef roasts
• It was unknown how the Sergeant got the ingredients “in the Army you don’t ask
questions”
(6:12) Free Time:
• Waited for mail which came in everyday with supplies by helicopter
• Did normal housekeeping chores (laundry, cleaning)
• Cleaned M16 every 3 or 4 days along with the Howitzer
• Played cards and talked with buddies
(6:55) Mail:
• Communicated with home only through mail
• It took the mail 10 days to reach the US, and the same was true for mail coming to them
in Vietnam
• Sent letters daily if the fighting was not too intense
�(7:38) The Howitzer (tactic):
• Forward observers would look at a map with coordinates and call in the local of an
enemy position
• Artillery was aimed by way of a compass (360 degree circle)
• All the aiming was done manually
• First round was always a smoke round, and this was used to test their aim
• If forward observer said smoke good HE (high explosives) next, that meant their aim was
correct and that they were to fire their live rounds
• There are 6 guns in a battery, and they would be aimed at an area the size of half a
football field
• Communication was done by radio between the gunners and the observer
(9:52) Lessons Learned:
• They learned how to make their own showers and how to use and fix their
communication equipment
• Built improvised shelters, shelves, bunks, and storage areas
• Used ammo boxes for the improvised construction
(11:00) Transportation:
• They used Chinook helicopters to transport both their Howitzers and themselves
• The used the Chinooks anywhere from twice a day to once every two weeks
• His gun was the first to be put on the ground because he was the commander of the
central gun
• They would first drop off the infantry to protect the drop zone so that the Howitzers could
land safely, and then they would bring in the command group
(12:13) After Vietnam:
• He left the service 730 days after he had joined it
• Did not enjoy being enlisted but felt it was something he had to do
• He was in Fort Riley Kansas when the war ended
(12:35) Wounded:
• Was moved to the Veterans Administration Hospital in Philadelphia for two weeks
• Was allowed to go home on convalescent leave
• Then he had to go to Fort Riley Kansas where he became a finance clerk for the last 6
months of service
• He would have been able to leave the service after being wounded , but he had more than
180 days left before his service was suppose to end
(13:30) Friendships:
• Did not make as many close friendships because people would come and go so much
• Each person served only one year in Vietnam, and he was there for only 6 months
• He left Vietnam so quick because of his injury that he did not have time to get contact
info. from the buddies he did make while there
�•
When he served at Fort Riley he lived in an apartment complex with his wife in
Manhattan Kansas where they did make many friends
(14:36) After Vietnam continued:
• Worked for GE as a sale engineer
• Experience in the military had little application after the war
(15:09) Thoughts on Current Military Service:
• He thinks that people today in the all volunteer military want to serve and that is why
they joined, but during Vietnam people who were drafted just wanted to get it over with
(16:05) Veteran Organizations:
• Member of the Disabled American Veterans (DAV)
• Felt he should give back to those who sacrificed so much for their country
• He gives money to DAV to help veterans who still need help because of their disabilities
(16:40) Wounded continued:
• Injured on Halloween
• He was brought to the command bunker after trying to operate his Howitzer following
being hit by shrapnel
• A medivac helicopter came in and brought him to a MASH unit where he was treated
• He had a collapsed lung and shrapnel in his intestines
• He went from the MASH unit to a Air Force base and then to Japan for three weeks
• From Japan he was sent on a hospital plane to Chicago and then on to Philadelphia
• The force of the mortar explosion rolled him three times
• You could hear the Mortars as they came in, but usually the first one was off target
(21:16) Medals:
• He got a Purple Heart for his wounds and a Bronze Star for his valor
• He talks about why people got medals
(22:21) Pictures:
• Chinook helicopter transporting a 105mm Howitzer
• Bunkers he helped build
• Him standing next to M16s
• The Howitzer
• Him next to Howitzer
• Military Payment Certificate
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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FloryJ
Title
A name given to the resource
Flory, Jack Henry (Interview outline and video), 2007
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Flory, Jack Henry
Description
An account of the resource
Jack Flory served in the Army during Vietnam from 1968-70. A gunner in the 4th Infantry Division, he was trained to use a 105mm howitzer, and in this interview there is a lot that deals with the tactics and experience involved in transporting and operating that kind of artillery. He tells about being wounded in combat and the various locations he was sent due to his wound. We hear about his service after recovery. He discusses the difficulty in making friends in Vietnam, and how he and those he served with had to learn to improvise. There is some discussion in relation to his feelings about those who serve currently in the military, and we get some description of his involvement in veteran organizations. The interview ends with him showing some pictures of his howitzer, of a Chinook helicopter, and the shelters they constructed.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Blank, Bailey (Interviewer)
Gill, Sabriye (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Veterans
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2007-05-25
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/07ea3230fc9c81a209d4df31a8b5a326.mp4
c6fd69fd947e35ccf00c5f2f0c8842ab
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3aba1ca360e34ae5cee79092e6eb103e.pdf
222d2db86c1e178ecbfaf683947cad05
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Fred Fleischmann
(1:04:30)
Background Information (1:00)
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
Born November 17th 1950 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. (1:05)
Served in U. S. Air Force from October 1972-August 1976. (1:17)
Because Fred had a low draft number he figured he would enlist and join the Air Force rather
than be drafted. (1:35)
The draft number was done by birthday. The lower a draft number the more likely a man was to
be picked. (3:26)
He believed that the draft did a lot of good as it took some low socioeconomic whites and
minorities through education processes that helped them later in life. (4:30)
Only approx. 20% of the men who were drafted (to Fred’s knowledge) were sent to Vietnam.
(6:15)
Fred was living in Grand Rapids. He had just graduated from Calvin College before enlisting.
(7:32)
Training (7:35)
•
•
•
•
•
•
Fred attended basic training at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas. (7:36)
Men who learned the skills in basic training quickly were bothered significantly less. (8:05)
He joined the Air Force with the hopes of being a navigator. Unfortunately he could not do this
task due to poor vision. (9:04)
Fred was offered the position to be an education specialist where he would help select non
educated solders to take high school classes and potential officer candidates to take college
courses. This job was located in Washington D.C. (10:34)
He assisted approx 300-400 men obtain their high school diplomas. (12:00)
During the period of Fred’s service the Air Force was downsizing. Often men without educations
would be sent away from service. Because of the need for additional education Fred served a
vital position. (12:30)
Training cont. (13:50)
•
•
•
•
•
On his first days of service Fred was sent to Detroit, Michigan, to be processed and then by bus
to the airport where he was flown to Texas. He arrived at approx. 3 AM. (13:45)
The men arrived at the base at 5 AM. The men then began their first full day of training. (15:13)
Though the barracks had approx 5-8 toilets, often the men only used 2. This is because they
needed several to stay spotless in case of surprise inspections. (16:39)
During basic, the drill instructors were cautious about how long the men were in the heat as
some cadets did pass out. (18:10)
There was emphasis placed on discipline and cooperation with other men. (20:29)
Service in the Air Force (21:40)
�•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
Arrived at Andrews Air Force Base in late December of 1972 (21:50)
When the base received a contract, the money had to be spent or else the contract would not
be rewarded the following year. Because of this ridiculous things often happened such as
expanding an 18 hole golf course to 36 holes. (23:15)
Because of Fred’s close interaction with officers with his education position. He heard much of
the information about how the officers from Vietnam felt about the conflict. The officers were
very frustrated about how the releasing of POWs was written in the peace talks. (25:17)
In 1974 the county Fred was stationed in was desegregated. Because of this the black schools
were closed. To compensate for the lack of space, the school system had to use Military schools.
Fred had to assist with the desegregation as he was in charge of education for the base. (20:10)
Black kids were moved onto on base schools. The black children reacted very joyfully. (29:56)
The officer’s wives were not very happy that their children were going to school with black
children. (32:39)
Fred was also involved with protecting Richard Nixon during his second Inauguration at Union
Station. (33:24)
Machine gun nests were placed around Nixon’s parade route in case the protesters became
rowdy. (34:00)
The men were not given weapons while protecting Nixon. (35:24)
There was a homosexual man who was assigned to the education department with Fred. He also
had a man who was shell shocked assigned to him. He was eventually hauled off by several
nurses who worked in the psychiatric ward. (36:00)
Fred was encouraged to get a military driver's license. He did not like this idea as it would
increase his chances of being called to drive if men or supplies needed to be moved. (38:30)
To avoid getting the license, Fred purposely failed several driving exams. Eventually he was
given the license. (40:20)
Medals and Citation (40:55)
•
•
•
•
He was made a small arms specialist in basic training. (41:16)
He was also elected one of the 12 most outstanding air men of the year. (41:30)
Fred was awarded the Air Force service medal. (41:47)
Because Fred served alongside many officers who had served in conflicts, he herd stories of how
close the Cold War actually came to being hot. (43:00)
Life in the Service (43:45)
•
•
•
•
•
•
Men kept in touch with their family via phone and letter. (43:47)
The food was always fairly good and the men were well fed. (44:00)
Fred does not believe that his particular position was especially difficult or stressful. (44:20)
On Friday afternoons the education office was shut down. Then one man would run to the
liquor store. The high-ranking officers then watched the low ranking men clean. This was often
done for entertainment. (45:50)
The men did occasionally play pranks on one another for entertainment as well. (47:38)
The men who were drafted often had low IQs below 90. These men often took advantage of the
opportunity to pursue secondary education. (48:17)
Documents (50:00)
�•
•
•
•
Fred kept the papers from Nixon’s and Gerald R. Ford’s inaugurations. (50:10)
Once Fred and several other men met the Russian Olympic team. The team wanted Frisbees and
blue jeans. The military could not afford blue jeans but did give the men Frisbees. (51:16)
Photos of the Concorde aircraft. (52:00)
POWs from Vietnam were often processed through Andrews Air Force Base. (52:44)
End of Service (53:43)
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
Fred was released 6 weeks early in August of 1976 so that he could attend the University of
Maryland on the GI bill. (53:53)
He earned a bachelor’s degree for business and economics. (54:16)
There have been no reunions for Fred to attend. (55:40)
Fred served as a trouble shooter for several organizations as a career after his service. (57:14)
He also worked for 7 years in a linguistic department. (58:58)
Fred’s wife worked as a professor at Grand Valley State University. (59:40)
His opinion about war was not changed as a result of his service. He believes that is the United
States’ responsibility to defeat oppressors across the globe. (1:00:00)
After his service Fred found that he lost his time as a young man to begin a career. (1:02:11)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FleischmannFNoId
Title
A name given to the resource
Fleischmann, Frederick (Interview outline and video), 2005
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Fleischmann, Frederick
Description
An account of the resource
Fred Fleischmann, born November 17th 1950 in Grand Rapids Michigan, served in U. S. Air Force from October 1972-August 1976 after the Vietnam War as an educational consultant. After completing his basic at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas, Fred began working at the education department at Andrews Air Force Base outside Washington, DC. Here he assisted men with pursuing secondary education and college courses. He also served on security details at major events, including two presidential inaugurations.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
West, Andy (Interviewer)
Engelbert, Aaron (Interviewer)
Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Air Force
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2005-05-25
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/17ba9771c488c59052c4b8d55b17808b.mp4
9906731bc2ad979031e222045aca2cca
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/df32bad8be88a3d09c2ad9131798ecc3.pdf
376bf31760a142c7d2f7242948fc17df
PDF Text
Text
ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW
DEREK FLACK
Born: Detroit, Michigan
Resides: Byron Center, Michigan
Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project,
Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, February 7, 2013
Interviewer: Mr. Flack, can you begin by telling us a little bit about your own
personal background? For instance, where and when were you born?
I was born in Detroit, Michigan July 5, 1948.
Interviewer: Did you grow up there?
I grew up, born and bred there my whole life.
Interviewer: What did your family do, your father do?
My dad worked for Ford Motor Company and he was an automotive engineer and we had
the typical lower middle class and it was great. Growing up in—I had a brother and two
sisters at the time and I had a late sister later on, but yeah, we had a great life.
Interviewer: Did you live in the city?
I lived in Detroit, right.
Interviewer: Did you go to the public schools?
Public schools for most of the time and then my dad sent my sister Gwen and myself,
being the two oldest, to a parochial school for the last two years. 1:05 Then back to a
public school later on when we moved from Detroit to Dearborn and that‘s where I
graduated from in 1966.
Interviewer: Okay, what did you do upon graduation?
1
�Actually, prior to graduation my family life, at least from an eighteen year olds point of
view, kind of was going downhill, you know. So, what I did, and Vietnam was roaring,
and I was gung ho about the Marine Corps, so I went down to the recruiter and signed the
papers when I was seventeen. Of course I went home and told my parents and my mother
was absolutely shocked. My dad, he was stunned, he‘d been in WWII see, so he kind of
understood a little bit about it you know, although he didn‘t like Vietnam. 2:03 My
mom didn‘t like Vietnam, and little did I know that later on no one would like Vietnam,
but that‘s neither here nor there at that time, so they wouldn‘t sign for me to go in early
even though I graduated in June and I was turning eighteen in July. They said, ―No, you
have to wait until you‘re eighteen and you can do it. So two days after my eighteenth
birthday, on the 7th of July, I went to downtown Detroit and they swore me in, and I said,
―I do‖, and I did, and they whisked me off to San Diego, California for training.
Interviewer: Was that Camp Pendleton?
San Diego, there is a Marine corps recruit depot in San Diego, only two in the country,
San Diego, California and Parris Island, South Carolina.
Interviewer: Is that where you had your basic training then?
Basic training, right
Interviewer: Describe basic training in 1968?
Well, 1966, yeah 1966, well we flew to L.A. and caught another flight down to San
Diego. 3:09 We get out of the plane and into the terminal and the drill instructors, or
DI‘s, are there waiting for us, and of course they‘re out in the public, so they usher out
into these school busses with no seats, so you‘re standing. The base is right next to the
airport, so then they get on the bus and they are screaming at you. From that point on
2
�they are screaming at you and they‘re calling you every name you ever thought of and
then some.
Interviewer: Did you know they were going to do that when you went in?
No, no, I didn‘t think it was going to be easy, but I didn‘t think it would start off like that.
So it‘s the shock value that they‘re going for and they shock you right away. Some
people in our group, who would become part of our platoon, had fathers who had been in
the Marine Corps, so they knew what to expect. 4:04 My dad was in the Army Air
Corps in WWII, so there was nothing like that. Anyway, I stood there and I‘m grabbing
onto one of the poles as they‘re taking off and thinking, ―What did I get myself into? So,
they go around to the front of the base, they come in and they‘re screaming at you all the
way, you stop and they actually push you off the bus, they‘re pushing you know. There‘s
these two big sets of yellow foot prints and they yell, ―Get in the footprints‖, and they‘re
like you‘re standing at attention the way they‘re painted on the asphalt, and we‘re all in
one section, there was only enough of us for one, and they‘re yelling at us and this is by
the barber shop. 5:01 They have a group of six guys run in there, they‘re yelling at you
the whole time, running up the steps, into the chairs, the barber‘s there, zipp, zipp, zipp
zipp, and you‘re out. I mean you went in there with whatever hair you had and you came
out with absolutely nothing and I remember it was just, ―Wow‖. Finally after everyone
gets shorn of their hair, then they sort of march you, because you‘re not—you don‘t know
diddly squat about marching at this point, over to one of the receiving barracks‘ where
you pick up your gear. You‘re going through and they‘re throwing it into a box or sea
bag, you get a sea bag, and just dump it in there, just keep dumping, dumping, and finally
they run you over to the showers. 6:04 Everybody gets a shower and then you put on
3
�your—we had yellow sweat shirts, which said U.S. M. C., had the emblem and the whole
thing and we had a cover we put on, we had on our utility pants, tennis shoes and socks
and that was it. Then they march us across the base, about two O‘clock in the morning,
yelling and screaming at us, and it‘s like a herd moving down the street. These Quonset
Huts that they had at the time and they put so many in a Quonset Hut, and what happens,
you have these metal racks with mattresses on them and then you have something you put
over them called a ―fart sack‖, that‘s what they called it, so those of us that at least
figured that out, we‘re trying to get that over the mattress and the DI‘s would yell, ―Stop,
you‘re not going to do that right now, you‘re going to go to sleep and that‘s it‖. 7:00
So, we stopped, we stopped right where we were and then he said, ―You will now lay
down‖, and we were laying there at attention, you know and then he turns off the lights
and says, ―You are now asleep‖, and slams the door. I remember this quite distinctly.
Interviewer: Then how early did they wake you up the next morning?
This was the morning. How many hours later?
Interviewer: Yes
I would say maybe about three, three hours later and everybody‘s in their clothes still,
some of us were smart enough to say, ―We‘re going to stay in our clothes‖. So, we
jumped up and then what happens is we fall out in some sort of formation and they‘re
trying to get us by height or whatever they do, you know—oh geez, and as time went on
at boot camp we got better and better and better at doing these things. You got all
squared away and you‘re marching and you can do your manual of arms and all kinds of
good stuff you know. 8:01 I mean, and you‘re going through your basics, which could
4
�be an obstacle course or you‘re going to classroom on the history of the Marine Corps, or
first aid, or all kinds of good stuff. Actually that lasted—we were there for nine weeks.
Interviewer: As you were there, did you adjust to that reasonably well? I mean did
you learn the routine and mostly stay out of trouble, or how did you do?
Ha, ha, if you didn‘t you were crazy, you really were. I adjusted pretty darn well to it. I
accepted that, ―Hey, I‘m stuck for four years‖, and I wasn‘t drafted, see they had few
draftees in the Marine Corps at that time. Most of them were enlistees and so anyway,
we just—you adjusted and you learned. You learned to stay out of a lot of sight, you
know, you just—you‘re the mouse in the corner, you know. 9:00
You‘re going to get
along because we saw a guy who didn‘t—we had some guys who were injured, naturally.
One guy broke his leg and he had to go back through the system again after his leg was
healed up and so on, but there were some guys—back then what they use to do is, these
recruiter needed numbers back home to fill their quotas, and there were guys in there who
should never have been in there, who you could tell should never have been allowed to
enlist, they would never make it.
Interviewer: Just physically not strong enough or mentally they were not right?
Everything, everything, and the recruiters didn‘t care because it‘s numbers for them.
That became a real big deal after Vietnam. Anyway, what happened is that they would
weed out those individuals right then and there and they would be sent home because
they‘re unacceptable, or unfit for military service. 10:00 We were down to about, our
platoon, to about seventy five, seventy four, seventy three guys eventually.
Interviewer: Out of how many?
5
�Out of close to eighty, and I‘d come out of high school and I thought I was in pretty good
shape, but no—I got in shape though and it was quite an experience, boot camp because
they‘re screaming at you all the time and as time goes on, during the nine weeks, they‘re
screaming less, and less, and less, until finally at the very end you‘re almost buddy,
buddy with them. I mean they‘re nice to you because you do what you have to be doing.
A good example was, during the end of our time at boot camp we got to marching in
cadence real easy. We‘d be marching down one of the streets and we could see one of
the new recruit platoons coming towards us with the tee shirts on. 11:07 By that time
you‘ve shed all that new stuff and you‘re in your regular uniforms. Anyway, we could
see them coming and the DI that was with us, we had three for our platoon, didn‘t have to
say a word, not a word, we all saw what was coming and we began hitting the pavement
with our heels, bang, bang, bang, and we were loud, we were all in cadence and it was
beautiful. We‘re going by these guys, and it screwed them all up, you know, and the DI
that was with us, he was chuckling and the DI from the other platoon, he was really—he
said, ―What‘s the matter with you girls? What are you doing? You can‘t let them screw
you up like this‖. He knew what was going on and after we passed by we went down to a
normal march and you didn‘t have to tell anybody anything because it happened to us.
12:05 You do that, you know, and it‘s sort of a, I guess, a rite of passage when you can
all do that without anybody telling you when you‘re doing it in unison correctly and
rookies are just going by and their all screwed up, I mean we could hear them fumbling
around. It reminded us of what we‘d been not too many weeks earlier.
6
�Interviewer: Now, while you were there at boot camp, were they figuring out what
kind of specializations you’d go into and what kind of advanced training you would
get?
Yes, and what would happen was, you went through a battery of tests to determine—first
of all when you enlisted you had a contract, not that any of us knew what contracts were
about, some of them like me, I‘d asked to go into intelligence and I didn‘t make that. I
probably wasn‘t smart enough, I don‘t know. 13:00 Anyway, we had twelve batteries of
tests and in those test they began seeing what you‘re good at, you know. If you had a
guaranteed contract, which some people did, then those batteries of test would be geared
toward whatever that guarantee was, and there were very few guarantees. So, what
would happen was that we would go through and take the test ad after a while there
would be a break, we‘d go outside and if you smoked you could smoke and you still
couldn‘t do too much because you‘re still in boot camp. Then you go back inside and do
some more tests and then they would say, ―Okay‖, and call out names, and my name was
one of them that was going to stay for another battery of tests. I thought, ―Whoa, what in
the world‘s going on?‖ Well, little did I know that they thought I‘d be a good
communicator, so I took the test and at the end of boot camp I got my assignment. 14:06
Of course we all went up to Pendleton for ITR, everyone does that, and if you‘re a grunt
you had four weeks of ITR, if you weren‘t a grunt, you got two weeks of ITR.
Interviewer: What does ITR stand for?
Infantry Training Regiment, everybody gets that and then the grunts get more because
they‘re going to be infantry and eventually down the road beyond that, whereas someone
like me, they gave me the first two weeks only to familiarize me with a lot of stuff that
7
�turned out to be pretty useless, but nevertheless. I found out at boot camp that I was
going back to San Diego for training because I was going to be in communications. Do
you remember the old Gomer Pyle series? Remember the arcade and the whole thing?
That‘s where what used to be what‘s called Communications Electronics Battalion, used
to be and now it‘s moved out of there up north. 15:00 Anyway, that‘s where it was,
right along that old arcade were all barracks back there and that‘s where I was sent, back
there for communications school, and I was going to be what was called a Radio
Telegraph Operator. You‘d go through the school and you‘d learn the radios, you learned
Morse Code, you learned to get quicker, and quicker, and quicker at sending and
receiving and that became useless because we never used it again, everything was voice.
Interviewer: Were they using telephones and things like that?
No, it was radios, radios that you carry on your back. There‘s no more Morse Code,
although we had a couple gung ho NCO‘s later on and in another outfit who wanted to set
up a communications net to practice in when we‘re in Vietnam. The guy had a death
wish I swear he did, because in a combat zone you don‘t screw with people like that, you
don‘t hassle them. 16:00 When they‘re there, they‘re there for combat and you let them
be while they‘re back at base camp and then they go out again, you know. Anyway that‘s
an old, old story.
Interviewer: Describe a little bit, please, the certain equipment you’re trained on
and particularly the stuff you wind up using.
We learned all the radios. Some were huge radios, some were mounted on vehicles, and
some were mounted permanently in installations. Actually it was the same radio, it just
had a different designation where it was mounted, believe it or not, I swear to God.
8
�Anyway, we learned all that stuff and we learned how to use it, we learned, oh geez, of
course, the Morse Code, like I said and spent eighteen weeks doing that, which was a
waste of eighteen weeks as far as the Morse code went, and I never used it again. 17:01
I never ever, ever, used it again
Interviewer: Did you learn anything about the maintenance of the equipment,
repair of it or anything?
Well, no repairs, you learn—of course when you have the equipment you keep it clean
naturally, but you just use it and if it needs repair you send it over to a tech who--that‘s
his job, so you don‘t worry about that. I never had to worry about that kind of stuff.
Interviewer: Now, while you were training to use this equipment and this kind of
thing and learning the Morse Code, were they still keeping up with the conditioning
exercises and marches and stuff like that?
No—well, yes and no—what would happen, after a while you would—once in a while
you would get someone who would say, ―Well, we need to get your people out there and
run around the base‖, and we would do that once in a while. Not as often as we should
have and you have to understand something—back then it was different than it is now.
Now, they stress a lot of that stuff and that‘s good. 18:00 Back then they didn‘t and we
played pickup sports among our groups and that was great, but we didn‘t do a lot of
organized calisthenics like we had back at ITR or boot camp. I now look back at it and I
wish I had because it would have helped with the next unit that I went to after that, but I
got back into it right away with the next unit, so that wasn‘t any problem.
Interviewer: Now, this period where you’re training for this radio work in San
Diego, were you getting time to get off base and do things and so forth?
9
�Yes
Interviewer: What kind of stuff did you do when you weren’t on duty?
Well, San Diego at that time wasn‘t nearly as big as it is right now, and we use to walk
down Rosecrans Boulevard, I remember that name, I‘ll never forget that, it goes right
down town. They use to have things downtown, they had a naval base right next to us
where they had the naval recruits. 19:05 We got to get off base in civilian clothes and
they had to wear uniforms and you could see the navy guys, these little white Dixie cups
bobbing in the crowd and know that‘s the navy. We use to go down there and there were
all kinds of stuff. They had this town square in the middle and I don‘t know if it‘s still
there or not, and on Sunday mornings they had a preacher on every corner, I remember
that and it was kind of cool, you know. And then there were things like the San Diego
Zoo, and that was a great place to go, especially for picking up girls, and they had the
bars down there. Because there were two classes every day in communications school,
and this is the part that didn‘t hit me until later on, why they would have two classes a
day for communications while the Marine Corps was no nearly as huge as the army, why
would they need that many communicators? 20:07 Well, I was to find out later on –
anyway usually what we‘d do is we‘d hop a bus down to Tijuana, Mexico. Now,
Tijuana, Mexico back in 1966 was one jumping place. There were all kinds of things you
ever imagine down there, I mean all kinds. We‘d get out of school about ten or ten thirty
at night and we‘d be on liberty until seven o‘clock the next morning and we had guys
rolling in there drunk as a skunk, you know. Then we‘d get in there and we‘d have to
clean up the barracks and do that in a stupor, you know, clean the barracks up somehow
and then we got free time, so next to the barracks, usually, was a little grassy lot and the
10
�guys would sack out there for I don‘t know how many hours sleeping it off. 21:02 This
is the honest to God truth. Then we‘d have to get ready and head for formation for
school and we‘d stand for formation down farther in the arcade in the back part there was
another area. We‘d stand there for whatever things they wanted to tell us and then we‘d
go into the classrooms and we‘d put on the headphones and we‘d start the Morse code
thing and do that for hours on end.
Interviewer: After a week's time you’d need to go back to Tijuana.
That‘s right, exactly; it‘s time to go to Tijuana.
Interviewer: Where did they send you after San Diego?
I went back to Pendleton and there had been a unit authorized to be called the 5th Marine
Division, which had not been organized since WWII. The 5th Marine division was made
up of a number of units and one of those units is the 28th Marine Regiment, so I was
assigned to them, to the 3rd Battalion 28th Marines at that time. 22:01 We got up
there—I got up there with a bunch of the guys who were with me, we went to school
together and we‘re in the same—we‘re all spread throughout the 28th, but those of us in
the 3rd Battalion, you know, we stuck together and there was no one there. There was no
one up there, maybe two or three guys in 3rd Battalion and that was it, it was us and them.
I mean we had free run of everything, we could do what we wanted to do. It was great
because there was no one there, the unit was just forming, and as time went on more and
more people came into the unit and formed the units and so on, and then we got into a
regular routine, which sort of sucked because we liked being free, you know. Then after
a while the 28th Marines became a regular outfit and we all wondered when we were
going to Vietnam because one regiment, the 26th Regiment had already made it to
11
�Vietnam along with attached units. 23:00 They were over there and the 27th Marines,
which is the 3rd Regiment in the division was at Pendleton also. So, we just figured,
―When are we going to go?‖ We hear what‘s going on in Vietnam, we watch all this
stuff and we‘re thinking ―Geez‖, and then, of course, the Pueblo thing happened the end
of 1967 the beginning of 1968, and we thought, ―Oh my God, we‘re going to Korea‖, and
we didn‘t want to go to Korea, it‘s cold there and I said, ―I‘m going to Vietnam, it‘s
warmer‖, and I kid you not that‘s what I said. ―I don‘t want to go to Korea‖, I said, ―I‘ve
read the stories of the guys in Korea. I want to go to Vietnam, if I have a choice,
Vietnam, it‘s warmer‖, and now that didn‘t happen, as you know. It sort of was resolved
or whatever, and that whole year of 1967 we were training, you know, and doing really
useless stuff, I swear. 24:00 You would think, going through the training that we went
through, that you were going to fight Europe in WWII, that‘s the kind of training we got.
I‘m thinking, ―I know Vietnam‘s not like this even though I haven‘t been there. I‘ve
talked to enough guys who have come back, it‘s not like that, and I don‘t understand all
this stuff, you know‖.
Interviewer: Were there officers or noncoms assigned to your unit as they were
building it who’d been in Vietnam already?
Yeah, some had and some weren‘t, some who were in a long time had been In Korea. At
boot camp I even had a guy who, a gun and gunnery sergeant who was on Guadalcanal,
but that was boot camp and that‘s different. But, in the regular outfit some people just
hadn‘t been in contact with that, but they‘re just doing what they‘re ordered to do and
that‘s the whole thing. But, I thought to myself, ―This sounds more like the reading I‘ve
read about WWII and what they did there, and how it was. People I‘ve talked to who
12
�were in WWII—this isn‘t even like the Pacific in WWII. 25:02 I‘m thinking,
―Something‘s wrong here‖, and I didn‘t understand what was going on. So, comes the
end of the year, Pueblo, and then into 1968, and Vietnam is heating up, and we‘re
thinking, ―Okay, another year‖, and then it rolls around, around Valentine‘s Day, this
time of the year 1968. I had duty that night. I was corporal of the guard and the officer
of the day, he and I used to—the duty was to patrol at night during the week-ends, just
the barracks, walk them, come back and write your log in ―All okay‘, or whatever, you
know. No big deal. Anyway, we were sitting there, we had just gotten back off a practice
operation on ship, and those were fun 26:08
Interviewer: Were those practice landing operations?
Yeah, we use to come on shore on these landing craft you see in WWII where the ramps
drop, and I‘m thinking, ―If this happens in Vietnam, we‘re all going to get killed, because
where are you going to go?‖ Or the other where you‘re going to be on an Amtrack, and
on the Amtrack you would go from the troop ship over to an LSD and you would go on
board this LSD and the Amtrack‘s below and the big door in the back would open up and
they would roll out and they would go through the water about that high above the water
with maybe ten of you in this Amtrack and they roll up on the beach. These Amtrack‘s,
unlike the WWII Amtracks, unlike the WWII Amtracks, or the ones they have now,
dropped in the front. So, I‘m thinking, ―If this happens we‘re going to get killed, where
you are going to go? You can‘t hide anyplace, and at least if it drops in the back, you got
a place to hide‖. 27:02 I‘m thinking, ―Oh god‖, and we all those kinds of things. We
would climb up those nets and that was a joy, let me tell you, climbing up and down
those nets, especially when you have a whole lot of gear on.
13
�Interviewer: That’s what you’re using to get into the landing craft or whatever
you’re using?
In and out, yeah, and one time they had me loaded down with over a hundred pounds of
gear on this backboard, plus my personal gear and everything, you know. We were
motored out to the ship, the nets were down, and you grad onto the vertical ropes and you
climb up and it‘s tough. You got your helmet on , buckled, because you can‘t lose it,
you‘ve got this heavy M14, which was a great rifle, I‘ll tell ya, a great rifle, slung across
you, I had this backboard on me and I had a huge radio on top of that and below that I
had my own gear, so I‘m loaded down. 28:00 So, you get up to the top, the railing, and
you‘re tired, and what you do is you just reach over the top, you swing a leg over and you
just roll and you hit the deck. That‘s what you do, you hit the deck, you lay there and
you get up on your knees and then you stand up and you‘re leaning forward because you
have so much weight on your back.
Interviewer: So, you’ve done one of those exercises and you’re back at camp with
the offer of the day and what takes place?
So, what happens, all of a sudden sirens go off and I‘m thinking, ―What in the world is
going on?‖ Lights are going on, I run back to the company office and the OD‘s there and
I said, ―Sir, what is happening?‖ He said, ―We‘re having a recall, everybody who‘s off
base is being recalled.‖ He said, ―Those people who are away on leave, even as far away
from California as you can get, are being recalled‖. 29:00 California‘s west coast and
people are from all over the country and if they‘re on the east coast they‘ve got to get
back now. I thought, ―Whoa‖, and he said, ―Also we‘re having what‘s called a ―mout
out‖ where you get all your gear ready and you go‖, and I thought, ―Oh, come on now‖,
14
�and I said, ―Are we going to Vietnam?‖ He said, ―I have no idea where we‘re going‖.
This is just after Pueblo and North Korea and I‘m thinking, ―Oh geese, I hope it‘s warm‖.
Here I‘m from Michigan and I‘ve been in Michigan my whole life and I want a warm
climate and I should move to a warm climate anyway. Anyway, everybody came in,
even some of the people you never see after—see at 16:30, which is 4:30 in the
afternoon, is when liberty starts and when you see some of the lifer NCO‘s coming back
in, you know that something is up because they don‘t come in for nothing. 30:01 So,
here they‘re coming in and the regular office staff comes in, so I‘m relieved of my
corporal of the guard duty and the whole thing, and I hook back up with my
communications platoon and our comm chief, he was a pretty good guy, said, ―Okay,
everybody down to the comm shack‖, and he said, ―You, you, and you dial the motor
pool and get the comm sheets ready‖, so we ran down to the comm shack and we had
these mount out pallets, which were huge stacks of individual boxes, which were banded
together and you throw your stuff in there and nail the top on it and then the next one, the
next one, and the next one. He said, ―Okay, what I want you to do is I want you to start
busting apart the pallets‖, so we bust apart the pallets and we took each individual box
and we had our radios up on shelves on the wall s all the radios, and he said, ―Start
putting the radios in boxes and get everything ready to go‖. 31:03 We worked there, we
were doing this all the way until four o‘clock, five o‘clock in the morning, we didn‘t stop,
you know. Of course when you‘re nineteen you can do anything, I swear, and I wish I
was nineteen again, God. Anyway, we got all this stuff ready and we brought it outside
to a truck and they shipped it away and we‘re standing there with nothing to do. We said,
―We‘re done‖, and this communications chief we had was a first sergeant, he had been to
15
�Vietnam, so he said, ―Get over to the mess hall and get some chow‖. He said, ―They‘re
keeping it open all day long for all of you people‖, so I said, ―Okay‖, so we went over
and got some chow and went back to the barracks with nothing to do, so we started
playing cards, which was a way we killed time. 32:04 We played Pinochle, Casino, we
played Poker, we played everything, so we‘re just sitting in there all day long doing
nothing and wondering, ―What in the world is going on?‖ Finally someone comes in and
says, ―Okay, go down to the‖---across from us was another building, which was supply,
and he said, ―Okay, go down to supply and draw a seabag‖, and I thought, ―Well, I got a
seabag‖, and he said, ―Well draw another seabag‖, so we went down and we each drew
another seabag. These were those heavy canvas things they used to have, they were
heavy and then you fill them up and they‘re even heavier. Anyway, we came back and
he said, ―I want you to start putting things in that seabag you want to send home‖, and
they had these big boxes you could then put the seabag in the box, address it, and it
would be sent out, and we kept the original seabag. 33:00
We thought, ―Oh boy,
something‘s happening‖, so we all got that done, we‘re out in formation , it was at night,
evening I should say, and we‘re standing around and our CO says, ―Okay, in the
morning you‘ll be transferred to the 27th Marines, which is our sister regiment, still in the
states. We said, ―Okay‖, so we went back in squared up the rest of our stuff, cleaned up
the barracks and that was it. You couldn‘t get off base, nothing. I called my parents at
that point and said, ―I think we‘re going to Vietnam‖, so I gave them all kinds of—I said,
―I got $10,000 insurance‖, that‘s all that I had at the time, and I said, ―if something
happens to me, split it up among Marty, Gwen and Gloria‖. Christine wasn‘t there at that
time. 34:02 Anyway, I said, ―Okay, I think we‘re going ―, and the next morning trucks
16
�arrived in the back of the barracks. We had a big huge parking area back there and we all
jumped on trucks and downed us, Camp Margarita at Camp Pendleton where the 27th
Marines was. We got down there and it was chaos, absolute chaos. Here we had our
stateside utilities on, we had to wear our flak jackets and our helmets, our M14s,
everything. Where were we going to go? And our packs, we‘re ready to go. We get
down there and we‘re assigned to units and I was assigned to the 2nd Battalion of the 27th
Marines, and they said, ―Well, draw boots, jungle boots‖, and that told me Vietnam, no
Korea, Vietnam, because if we were going to Korea we‘d be keeping our leather boots, so
that was cool, I‘d rather go there. 35:02 Anyway, I drew boots, they didn‘t have my
size, I drew a size too small because that‘s all they had and I eventually gave those away.
I went back to the old leathers and then we got all the 27th Marines gear on trucks and
went up to El Toro Airbase and maybe you saw that in the movie ―Independence Day‖
when they had that fighter squadron, that‘s the base that we flew out of. We got up there
and we‘re sitting over by one of the hangers on the tarmac and we‘re just sitting there
with our gear with nothing to do, not even a PX nearby. So, I found a phone and made
one last phone call to my parents and told them, ―I think we‘re going‖. Sure enough, it
was later on that day, one of those big C-141‘s came in and our gears on a big metal
pallet all strapped down and we file in. 36:00 We got on our flak jackets, our helmets,
our M14‘s and we‘re sitting on this plane all in rows, gears in the back, and they take off
for Hawaii. We landed at Hickam for an hour for refueling and that was the first time I
had been to Hawaii. Then they took off and flew to Wake. Have you ever been to
Wake?
Interviewer: No
17
�Nothing there, I mean nothing there, we landed and it was hot, I mean this place is hot in
February, I mean it was like in the summer. Anyway, you land and all you see is water
around you, there‘s nothing there. There‘s a lot of FAA personnel that man the island
now, or back then, but still, you look around, water, they‘re only about that far above sea
level. So, we go into the terminal, the air conditioning, where we can just stretch our legs
and we walked around and found a couple of old WWII emplacements that were still
there, we refueled and off we go again. 37:04 Headed for the Philippines, and we
landed at Clark, which doesn‘t exist anymore because Mount Pinatubo destroyed that.
Landed at Clark, a big base, and we file off the plane with flak jackets, helmet, M14‘s,
and we start walking around the base. Air Force is really nervous; here you‘ve got all
these planes landing with all these marines with rifles. They weren‘t loaded, didn‘t have
any ammunition, but they were nervous, I kid you not. They hadn‘t seen anything like
this, maybe ever, and finally they told us in the terminal, stack arms and we could have
our run of the base, which was neat. Air Force lives like kings let me tell you, they really
do. 38:00 So, we went over to a group of barracks, each barracks has their own little
EM club, we walked in there and we began pounding down San Miguel beer, ten cents a
bottle. San Miguel is one of those beers that goes right through you, I mean there‘s no
stopping along the way, it goes in and goes through, and we pounded down a bunch of
those and when we got back to the terminal, we were there about five hours, and we took
off for Vietnam. We landed in Vietnam and we stayed the first night in Da Nang, and
from there our unit went out to a LZ right below Da Nang and the LZ was a one battalion
LZ. Well, there was already one battalion there, so our battalion kind of crowded—it got
kind of crowded you know.
18
�Interviewer: What is a LZ, a landing zone?
A landing zone, yeah, and we got down there and of course, all these guys are from the
3rd Battalion, 5th Marines who had been there a while. 39:00 We‘re all new guys and
they got jungle utilities, jungle boots, jungle this and jungle that, and M16s you know,
and here we are walking around in stateside utilities and a lot of us had on the leather
boots because they didn‘t have the jungle boots and all that kind of stuff, so you stood
out. So, we had to pitch pup tents because there wasn‘t enough for two battalions on the
base, so we pitched pup tents and we stayed like that for maybe a week or so and then the
3rd Battalion, 5th Marines left. They just had an assignment and they were gone, and it
was all ours, and we were there alone. We had gone out on patrols with them. We used
to walk down the roads on patrols and you have one side, guys from 3/5, that‘s what
Robby called them, 3/5, and guys over here from 2/27. 40:02 You could tell the
difference, it was a sharp difference, but we were learning as we were going. This was a
smart move on their part, learn, learn, OJT. I cannot stress to anyone who—about any
war that they‘re viewing, whether it‘s the two wars going on now or any war in the past
or any war in the future, OJT, if you can survive OJT you got it.
Interviewer: Now, was this area one where there was a lot of enemy activity?
This was during Tet, we landed during Tet. That‘s why we went over there, because
apparently it was so bad that they needed extra troops quick and we were part of the extra
troops for Tet, we landed during Tet. Yeah, we use to get hit and so on and we learned,
you learn and if you don‘t you die.
Interviewer: Were you dealing with snipers and mortars and things like that?
Everything
19
�Interviewer: Did you have larger units?
No, smaller units, snipers, mortars, rockets they were actually in large units, thank God,
at that point. 41:10 Later on we would with another outfit, but still—yeah, we‘re
learning. The idea is to learn because number one, no matter what anybody tells you,
your number one job in combat, I don‘t care what anybody tells you, is to stay alive. If
you don‘t stay alive you can‘t do anything else, number one job.
Interviewer: What kind of tricks or techniques were you able to learn that was
going to help you stay alive while doing these patrols?
Don‘t touch anything, don‘t touch, that‘s what got me eventually, somebody touched
something and I paid the consequence. But, don‘t touch anything--we had people—
unless you know what you‘re doing don‘t touch, because everything is booby trapped and
you just don‘t touch it. When you‘re on patrols always spread out when you‘re going on
these patrols. 42:07 You got about twenty yards between individuals contrary to what
you see on TV. You have a large space in there, let me tell you, because the larger the
space the fewer guys are going to get hit or killed.
Interviewer: When you were doing this were you going single file spacing that way
or were you spread out?
No, single file down—like road sweeps, and you walk down the road and you‘re looking
all around you, you‘re looking this way, that way, every which way, yeah. You have
people—of course I was in infantry, I was—they made me infantry for a short time like
that believe it or not. I was a radio operator, but they made me infantry for a very short
time and this is what the infantry did, and you have an assignment, or a mission to go out
to a certain point and you don‘t talk, you don‘t smoke, don‘t talk unless you have to
20
�because your noise carries. 43:08 You‘re making noise anyway, a group of guys and
yeah, you‘re just going down the road and you‘re looking around and it‘s boring, believe
it or not, war is boring for the most part. One thing you notice is the guy in front of you,
in his back pocket, usually has a little paperback book and what he‘ll do when he gets
time to sit down and rest, and he might not have to be out on perimeter, he‘ll sit down
and read a few pages of the book, and that‘s the way it was.
Interviewer: As you were going on these patrols, I mean was there every anything
actually to see or did shots come at you while walking?
Yeah, once in a while you get a sniper shooting at you, which is you know, hopefully
you‘re not going to get hit. Sometimes there‘s a unit out, there‘s the enemy and they
have a mortar and they drop mortars in on you. 44:03 Mortars you can hear coming and
the closer they‘re going to hit the less you hear, but still you get a little chance and you
hit the ground and you flatten out right away, it‘s just what you do. From there you do
what you‘re going to do, you know. That was with the 2/27, I was with them for—after
that little infantry stint I got in communications finally, and I was doing communications
with them, and actually what happened was that what I had done in the states for the 28th
Marines, I did with the 27th Marines, and later on with the other outfits. I was part of
what‘s called the tactical air control party, TAC party, and that‘s where you go out in the
field and you‘re the guy who‘s responsible—you‘re the communicator and the officer
who‘s supposed to be with you, key word is supposed to, is the person who calls in the air
strikes and resupplies medevac‘s. 45:07 Anyway, you carried the radio for the guy,
well I got news for you, we had very few officers and very few pilots, and it usually
21
�wound up that it was just me and that was it. I was with this outfit and I had the job of all
this stuff by myself, no one else, just me and that‘s what happened after a while.
Interviewer: So if you got into a situation where you needed air support what did
you do?
I would talk to the officer in charge out there. I‘d say, ―Skipper, what do you need? Can
I help you?‖ He says, ―What do you have on station?‖ You have nothing on station and I
said, ―I got nothing on station right now, but I can make a call and see what we can get
out here‖. 46:00 He has the forward observer for the artillery and he can call in a fire
mission, maybe, so it depends, it just depends if I can get somebody out there to help us
out if we need that help. What I would do—you see it in the documentaries, the guy
standing up with the radio on his back out in the middle of—―Shoot at me‖, that was me.
I‘d do that and bullets flying around me all time and I never got hit with a bullet, never
got hit, whizzing over my head, dropping next to me, you never know, and I‘m calling in
the air strikes, or whatever, and it‘s scary business. That was when I began to realize
why they had so many communications schools going through there. It was a job where
you didn‘t last too long usually, and you keep replacing communicators. Yeah, that was
with the 27th Marines and from there I left for the 7th Marines. 47:07 As I understand
later on, the 27th Marines was only going to stay there until the fall of 1968, and then all
the short timers were going to go into the 27th Marines and all the 27th Marines were
going back to the states as a unit.
Interviewer: You were a four year man, so they were going to assign you to
something that was going to stay out there longer?
22
�Well, I was surprised they didn‘t grab me earlier. Anyway, I went to the 7th Marines and
I wound up at the 7th Marines regimental headquarters, cushy job, I should have stayed
there, but guess what? I‘m not real bright see, and I was there for a while,
communications, and I did what I had to do.
Interviewer: Were you manning one of the big radios?
We had the small radios in the command bunker and whatever I was doing I was using
the small—the big radios didn‘t really—they were in Da Nang out in battalion [division?]
level, but in regimental level you didn‘t have hardly any of that stuff. 48:09 Anyway,
we‘re sitting there and we got the small radios, which are adequate, and are called PRC25‘s, small radios, carrying them on your back if you want. Anyway, I was there with the
7th Marines for a while, and like I said, I wasn‘t real bright, and I kept saying, ―I want to
get out of this place, I want to get out of this place, nothing‘s happening here‖. Little did
I know, so anyway, finally my company commander—see, when you‘re in
communication you‘re always part of headquarters support in the communications
platoon, and your NCO, the comm chief, they finally got sick of me and they transferred
me down to the 3rd Battalion 7th Marines, my last outfit. 49:01 I get down there and I‘ll
tell ya, I didn‘t know I stepped in it. Boy, I get down there and I was busy.
Interviewer: Where were they stationed?
Okay now, the LZ for 2/27 was right below Da Nang and the 7th Marines was over on
Hill 55, which is a little bit west.
Interviewer: is that Central Highlands country?
No, we were up at I Corps.
Interviewer: So, up in the northern part.
23
�Yeah, up at I Corps, and then a little southwest of Hill 55 was Hill 37 where the 3rd
battalion was and that‘s where I went to eventually. That was about, geez I‘m trying to
think, June 1, 1968, that I got to the 3rd Battalion 7th Marines. I get down there and I
didn‘t get a greeting like I got at the 7th Marine headquarters. My first night there they
rocketed us, oh my god, the first time I had these huge rockets coming at me,
unbelievable. 50:04 I mean we were crawling in the dirt trying to get away from where
they were hitting, you know. But anyway, I get down to the 3rd battalion and I check in
and there aren‘t many of us. Now, here you got four companies, four grunt companies,
four infantry companies in a battalion, and normally the way it‘s set up, when I learned it
in the states was a TAC party unit going out was an officer and two communicators. As I
learned with the 2/27, we didn‘t have enough people, and at regimental, regimental didn‘t
have to worry about that, Now, 3rd Battalion 7th Marines we didn‘t have enough people,
we had even less than 2/27 had, so what happens is that, I got to get back in to calling in
stuff like I used to , so I went out with another guy a couple times just to check me out
and to be sure that I knew what I was doing, and I did. 51:06 After that it was just a
grunt company and me. I‘d be assigned something and I‘d be going out and maybe it
would be Lima company, L Company, I‘d go out with them for a while, however long it
was and do what I do, airstrikes, resupplies, medevac‘s, the whole thing, and come back
in, just come back in just in time to do what we called the three s‘s, shit, shower and
shave, maybe catch some chow, and go back out again. The next company, maybe it‘s M
company, Mike, and you‘re back out again with them doing something.
Interviewer: So, do you think you were out in the field more than the regular
infantry guys?
24
�Yeah, the grunts
Interviewer: They got longer breaks between, but there weren’t enough of you
guys.
Yeah, they get longer breaks and we just had to keep doing it, and doing it, and doing it,
so the odds keep going down on me. 52:00
Interviewer: What kind of fighting was going on here? Were you engaging sort of
North Vietnamese forces as far as you can tell?
Usually Vietcong— well, Vietcong during Tet had been pretty much wiped out and
NVA, North Vietnamese forces, were moving in, and yeah, we would engage them. You
hardly ever find any bodies, they were good at picking up their bodies and going, they
really were, and yeah, there was a lot of that.
Interviewer: Were these mostly small scale fire fights?
Small scales, yeah, yeah, we did—the one—a couple of times we‘d assault the tree lines,
there was a large unit in there and we don‘t know how many we killed. All I know is that
we found three bodies and when we reported to Stars and Stripes, they came out and said
we‘d killed three hundred—propaganda, I swear, god it was horrible, we‘d read the Stars
and Stripes and just laugh. 53:02 When they talk about something you were involved in
and you knew it was different, we‘d say, ―Geez‖.
Interviewer: So, if you’re doing a fight like that you assume they had an actual
target to attack?
Oh yeah
Interviewer: They bring in artillery, airpower, and then send you guys in?
25
�Oh yeah, in fact when we hit the tree line, we hit it with artillery for two days straight, we
hit it with airstrikes two days straight and we went in behind flame tanks after that, oh
yeah.
Interviewer: There couldn’t be anybody left after that.
You‘d be surprised, you‘d be surprised, those suckers were tough and they were well dug
in and they were tough, oh yeah. We go to the tree line and we go behind the tanks with
the flames and we do what‘s called recon by fire. You put your M-16 on automatic and
you‘re spraying, and it‘s called recon by fire, and we‘d do that. Unbelievable, and we
went to the tree line and we stopped for the night and someone, I don‘t know what
happened, but someone didn‘t—I got separated from the CO, I don‘t know why, I don‘t
know how. 54:10 I kept walking and finally I get up to a point and I realize there‘s no
one going by me anymore. I look around and I don‘t see anybody and I‘m thinking, ―Oh
shit, what did I do?‖ And here I‘m out in the middle of nowhere. So, there was a ditch
and it had just rained, so I slid down the ditch and lay on the one muddy wall. I‘m lying
there with my file in my hand and my radio on my back and I‘m thinking, ―Oh God, what
the hell did I do? I got to stay here until daylight at least‖, so I‘m there until daylight.
Daylight comes around and I‘m awake because you‘re scared. 55:00 I peeked my head
up and I don‘t see anything and I thought, ―Oh, geez‖. I could call on the radio, I could
do that, but during the night you don‘t want to do that. In the daytime it‘s different
because it‘s a little different anyway. So, I peek my head up farther and I see a guy
sitting about thirty yards away, one of our guys. I thought, ―Oh God thanks‖, so I made
my way over to him and I said, ―Where the hell are we?‖ He said, ―Who the hell are
you?‖ I said, ―I‘m the forward air controller, I got separated from the CO‖, and he said,
26
�―The CO is back there, a hundred yards‖ , and I thought, ―Oh shit‖, and I said, ―Okay,
okay‖. He said, ―Just—we got guys all along here, just make your way back‖. I‘ll tell
ya, talk about stupid. 56:04 I told you I wasn‘t real bright, you know. Anyway, that
was one time, and another time I was attached to India Company, I Company, and India
Company, at that time, had a CO, how can I describe him? He was not well thought of,
put it that way, and he lived up to that expectation, he did. He was a Captain and he used
to, when he was with our battalion, he was given jobs that were easy jobs, relatively
speaking, road sweeps and stuff like that, which you can get into trouble, but your odds
of getting into huge trouble are diminished. 57:01
He used to be given those kind of
jobs because the battalion CO didn‘t think that he was—I don‘t know for a fact that he
thought this, but with the actions, and easy jobs is a reason why, and also, he was a very
important person, this Captain, he had political clout, yes, big political clout. So, the idea
was not to let him get into too much trouble. Anyway, needless to say, India was doing a
road sweep between the hills—one of the platoons of India was on Hill 37 and the rest of
it was over on Hill 65, and the idea was for me, as forward air controller, to go with this
platoon over to this Hill 65, meet up with the rest of the company that is going to do the
road sweep, over to Hill 52 and drop off a convoy for the army. 58:02 Now, at this
time, what happens is that—every battalion has an air officer, a pilot, and we had an F-4
pilot that was the air officer and had never been out in the field, a great guy, pilots are
fabulous people, I mean they really are great. I loved them and that‘s why I loved the job
that I had, I could deal with pilots, you know. They were fabulous people, I loved the
pilot. So anyway, they decided we were going to do a regular setup this time where we
have an officer and two communicators, which was ―wow‖, just like the book says. So,
27
�Lieutenant Ferguson, the pilot, everybody called him ―Fergie‖, he was going to go out for
the first time , otherwise he stayed in the battalion the whole time, he didn‘t go anyplace,
but he would—he hooked up with then, with Jim Logan and myself and I was carrying
one radio and Jim was carrying another radio and Fergie was just himself. 59:02 I‘m
assuming that Fergie was so nervous about going out in the field that he got drunker than
a skunk the night before, typical, and I mean he was wasted. So, we got him over to the
platoon and we hooked up and went over to Hill 65. There, they had tanks, Amtracks,
and six by‘s, and this was all going to be part of a convoy going out to Hill 52 to meet
with the army who‘s coming in from Thuong Duc to pick up their supplies. Thuong Duc
was also, one of the areas where we would go to rescue if they got hit. Anyway, so were
going out there and Fergie is so drunk –we‘re on top of the Amtrack and in the back of
the back of the Amtrack is the ventilator or the ―dog house‘ and he‘s back there sleeping
off his hangover. 00:03 Jim and I are up in front and we‘re going down the road, we got
a tank in front of us, we got tanks behind us and you got six by‘s and Amtracks you
know.
Interviewer: So, you got your lieutenant and your Captain arguing about what to
do.
Yeah, so finally the Captain says, ―This is a direct order Lieutenant, get your people on
top of these two vehicles and we‘re going back‖, but he climbs on top of two vehicles.
I‘m on the first Amtrack and I‘m sitting right behind the driver, who is down in his hole,
and I‘m sitting there and next to me is the Lieutenant in charge of the Amtracks. He‘s
sitting there with a sand bagged air cooled 30 caliber and next to him is Jim Logan, my
buddy and then behind me is a mass of humanity and Fergie‘s still back in the ―dog
28
�house‖ still sleeping it off. He tied one on, so anyway, we‘re going down the road and
pick up the guys we dropped off, and the tank treads are about that wide and Amtrack
treads are about this wide, so the driver is putting his treads in their tracks. 1:10 He
figures, if there‘s a mine out there he‘s going to get it, not us, a smart guy. So, we‘re
going down the road picking up guys and we‘re to almost where we started from and
once we do that ―pow‖, we put the pedal to the metal and we‘re out of there. Well, sitting
over in the bushes, as we always called him, ―Luke the Gook‖ with a detonator in his
hand. That means if you run over the mine it won‘t go off until he pushes the plunger, so
I‘m sure when he was our Amtrack with so many guys on top, he‘s saying, ―Oh my God,
what a target‖. The tank rolls over, nothing happens, our Amtrack rolls over and right
when the back of the Amtrack where the engines at, he pushes it and ―wham‖. 2:01
This Amtrack weighs about sixty two tons.
Interviewer: This is one of those—
Amphibious vehicles and you also use them on land too; they used them in Iraq that way
too, on land. Anyway, he blows it and this thing weighs about sixty two tons, not
including the people on top, their gear, the fuel, the ammunition, whatever gear is inside,
so who knows how much this sucker weighs. This whole thing goes up almost on nose,
imagine that? Here I am right in the very front and I‘m looking at the dirt in the road all
of a sudden in front of my face. It happened so fast, you cannot believe, and if that thing
had gone all the way over, I wouldn‘t be sitting here today, we‘d all have been dead
except the ones that were blown off. Anyway, I‘m sitting there and I‘m thinking, ―uh,
oh‖, and the road is in front of my face and I‘m stunned because, ―What in the world?‖
3:01 The thing drops back down on what‘s left of its tracks. Well these things are
29
�maybe eight feet in the air, tops, and I jump off, hit the ground running and there‘s some
barbed wire next to the road, busted right through that, down through the bushes, into a
dry rice paddy. I‘m lying there; I‘m flat on my face, lying there, I‘m just lying there
waiting for the assault. My rifle was gone, my radio was gone, I didn‘t know where
anybody else was, guys were around me, I could see that, and nothing. I thought, ―Oh
geez‖, and I wait, and I wait, and I wait, nothing, nothing happens, so I get up and I walk
back up the embankment and there‘s the Amtrack burning. The driver‘s still in the hole
and there‘s a guy laying on top burning. The driver jumps out of his hole, throws him off
the top onto the ground and they smother the fire, but the guy eventually died. 4:05
there was no one else on top of the Amtrack, so I walk around and I‘m looking for Jim. I
find him, and I said, ―Where‘s Fergie?‖ He said, ―I don‘t know, I don‘t know‖, and I
said, ―Geez, we got to find him‖, so we walked around and seventy five yards away
here‘s Fergie lying on a mound, burned about the face, the hands, the neck, all the
exposed areas. His clothes were burned, he was right over the explosion and he got
thrown seventy five yards away. What happened, I didn‘t have my radio and there was a
grunt infantry walking around dazed and I said, ―Come here, you‘re mine, kneel down‖,
and I dialed in my frequency and I called in the medevac‘s. 5:00 Fortunately, what
happened was our area was being partially being taken over by the 1st Battalion 5th
Marines and all there choppers were going back and forth bringing their people and when
I called in the medevac‘s they diverted them. I medevaced seventeen guys out of that
mess and then we brought thirteen back with us with all the rest of the vehicles, yeah. I
never saw Lieutenant Moore again—he was—I don‘t know whatever happened to him. I
know the Captain wasn‘t on the Amtrack and I saw him on TV this past weekend while I
30
�was snowmobiling up in Kalkaska. It was something going on in Washington and he was
in the audience, never forget a face, never forget a face, even though it‘s thirty some
years later. 6:02
Interviewer: Who was this fella anyway?
Captain Charles Robb
Interviewer: Oh my
You know who he was?
Interviewer: Naturally, the son-in-law of Lynden Johnson, right?
Exactly, he married Lynden Johnson‘s—it was Linda Bird and he became a US Senator
from Virginia. Yeah, well after that, Captain Robb got transferred up to division G-4,
which is transportation and supply and I never heard from him again, how‘s that?
Interviewer: Now, how much longer did you stay with this unit?
I was just attached to them, I was with the 3rd of the 7th Marines and I did other
operations. Like I say, we went out one time and we were going through a woods and the
enemy saw us and they dropped mortars in on us and one mortar dropped on a group of
guys and right in the center. Whew, knocked them all down, a couple guys got chopped
up pretty good from the shrapnel. 7:02
I was about thirty yards away, the concussion
knocked me over, I mean it‘s that much. It depended, just doing different things with
different outfits and what happened, in the summer of 1968, this is before this Amtrack
thing, every regiment has four infantry, grunt companies, and one night Lima and Kilo
were out on a sweep and I was with Mike. Mike came back in, so I came back to base
camp and I got my three ess‘s and a little more and it was great. All of a sudden we
heard that Lima and Kilo had run into a reinforced North Vietnamese Army force, a
31
�reinforced battalion or something, and there was a hell of a fight going on, and that Kilo
had gotten hit bad, real bad. 8:02 So, I was assigned back to Mike again and we went
back out there and linked up with Lima. We got out there and the company commander
and of, of course, sat down and we sent our guys out and we set up a perimeter. What
happened is that Lima was licking it‘s wounds, they weren‘t hit so bad, but Kilo got
wiped out. I mean our company guys, we were never full strength, no one was full
strength over there, so we‘re talking over a hundred guys easily, maybe a hundred and
fifty guys, and I don‘t know how many got killed, but a ton of them. So, we had these
big Chinook choppers, so what happened, every guy out there, who was available, one
would grab the arms and one would grab the legs, they would walk to the back of the
chopper and drop the body off, out the side, come back around, grab another body and
around and so on and so forth. 9:04 I don‘t know how many choppers of dead I
medevaced out of Kilo, just they wiped out that company something fierce. So, we went
with Lima sweeping for that battalion and never found them, made it back to base camp
and we were, all of a sudden, a three company battalion. We operated that way until
September when what was left of Kilo they formed a whole new company around them.
Now, you got to understand this, when they‘re forming a whole new company around—
these are mostly new guys from the states who don‘t know their ass from a hole in the
ground, they really don‘t, like me once. Again, I‘m not too bright, and I should have
been more cognizant of that fact. 10:02 I went out with them on their second or third
time out and you‘re going through ojt at this point for them, so we went out in a blocking
force, which is a pretty easy job, you set in and you block while somebody pushes the
enemy toward you and you pick them off. It gets kind of hairy because bullets are flying
32
�all over the place and you never know, you know. Anyway, so we‘re out there and
finally the 2nd Battalion 7th Marines had been the pushing force. They pushed toward us,
got up to us, and that was it. Then we all went our separate ways, and a long story short,
we went someplace, they went someplace, and we were where we were for a day or so
and then we went back to this place where they were and they went someplace else, and
that‘s where the end of the world happened. We landed there and I was out with a guy
named Holcomb, a new guy, showing him the ropes. 11:08 I told him how to do this,
and this, and this, and I said, ―This is how we‘re going to do it‖, and so on. The first
thing I had written down was how to do a medevac, the very first thing. I said, ―This is
how you do a medevac‖. I wrote it down for him in a little booklet and I said, ―Just
watch what I do and you learn, and that‘s the way you learn‘, so anyway, he was there
and we walked around the whole area looking for a place to stay for the night, someplace
to lay down and so on, you know. Here were all these grunts in the area and they picked
all the good spots first, so we got back to where we started from. So, I said, ―Nah, let‘s
just take the poncho‖, and there was a big berm of dirt, ―We‘ll stake it up on top, stretch
it across and stake it at the bottom. We‘ll sleep underneath and we‘re done‖, so that‘s
what we did. 12:04 There was a pathway through the berm to a dyke going across this
ditch. The company CO was on the other side and I thought, ―We‘re okay, no big deal‖,
so that night we sat in and that was it. The next morning I get up , and being the senior
person for the air control, I figure, ―I‘m going to go over and talk to the CO and see what
he‘s going to do that day and if he needs anything on station, and what does he need‖, it
was part of my job. So again, not real bright, I get up, it was about seven o‘clock in the
morning as I remember correctly, and I walk through that opening in the berm, start
33
�walking across this dyke, there was a guy standing there and he was pulling on this tree
and I didn‘t pay any attention to it and I should have. 13:02 ‗Don‘t touch anything‖, I
learned that, ―Don‘t touch anything unless you know what you‘re doing‖, well, these
guys didn‘t know anything. I get about eight feet past this guy and the world blew up,
just unbelievable, I just, you can‘t imagine, everything just ―whoo‖. I was standing there
and I had lit up, I smoked at the time and had a cigarette in I don‘t know which one of
these two hand, I forgot which one. I had this hand out in front of me and I saw this
finger go and this is all in a few seconds. I turned it toward me and it was cut right off
straight and I thought, ―If that‘s all there is, I‘m lucky‖, because I‘d seen enough guys
getting blown up and shot up and I knew how bad it could get, and then the concussion
knocks you over. I hit the ground and I‘m lying there and I look around and everything is
red and I thought, ―Oh God‖, and a few other things. 14:10 So then what I did, I rolled
over and I looked down at my feet because being in the job I was in I knew a lot of guys
who ran into land mine, I knew it was a land mine automatically, lost their feet, so I
looked down at my feet to see if they were still there. I looked down and they were still
there and I thought, ―If I roll on my stomach, will they come with me?‖ No joke, I rolled
and they came with me and I thought, ―Yeah, I made it‖. I rolled over and got up on my
elbows and I began screaming for a corpsman, and the corpsman was real close by, but I
think it took him five years to get there, I swear to god, just the time lapse. He gets over
there, reaches down and rolls me back over on my back and began cutting clothes off of
me. 15:05 I‘m sure he hit me with morphine, I don‘t know for a fact, they bandaged me
up like a mummy, I didn‘t know what was wrong with me, all I knew is when I rolled,
―Do not bend your knees‖. If there‘s shrapnel in there you don‘t want to—that was my
34
�thinking anyway, so he rolled me back and I‘m lying there and I looked over to my left
and I had a watch on this hand that‘s the scar, it was still on, it was inside the wrist, and I
thought, ―Whoa‖, the face was all blown out, the band was broken in half, so I twisted
my wrist over and each side could flop either way, but it stayed inside my wrist, you
know. 16:00 So, I shook my wrist and it fell out, and I‘m thinking the whole time, I
don‘t feel any pain, maybe because of a shot, maybe morphine, I don‘t know. Anyway,
I‘m lying there and they cut the clothes off me, and let me tell you something, when
you‘re lying naked out in the field, in the morning after it rains, it‘s cold, I mean it‘s cold.
They threw me into a poncho, and that‘s cold, let me tell you, that‘s cold, it really is. It‘s
just like being on an operating table without any blankets on there and it‘s cold in that
operating room, so I‘m out there in the middle of the field, totally naked now, all
bandaged up, and it‘s cold. I‘m thinking, ―Awe geez‖, so they, good old Holcomb, calls
in the medevac just like I taught him. He did a good job and he was all alone out there.
just like I used to be, all alone. 17:02 Then from there I flew into Da Nang, and the
Marine Corps use to use these old H-34 Choctaws from the Korean War. You could run
faster than they could fly. They had the big door on the side and the big bulbous nose
and the wheels were fixed down all the time, so they came out, it was early in the
morning, emergency medevac, flew me into Da Nang, and I got in there and we landed.
They rushed out to grab me and rushed me into the emergency. I‘m lying there and all
these IV poles are all around me and I‘m thinking, ―What in the world is all this stuff?‖
Then I passed out, I had lost so much blood.
Interviewer: Were you hit in the body as well?
35
�Well, what it did , it blew off—it was on the left side, I was in mid step when it went off,
it blew off about a third of the left calf, it pulverized the entire left leg going up to the left
buttocks. 18:07 I got it in the left arm, inside of the right leg, which means both knees
got it, and I just got a knee replacement by the way, which was after all these years it
finally wore out. Then I got something in the left eye and didn‘t know it, little pieces that
I found out later on. I lost so much blood that I had cardiac arrest, I guess it was an
embolism had formed in one of my veins and it broke loose and went to my heart and I
was dead. The last think they recorded, according to the records, was four and a half
minutes of no activity, so I was gone to the other side. What‘s really weird is somehow
the doctor got me back, obviously, I‘m sitting here today. 19:04 I told you about the
books that you read and war is boring except for the times you‘re out in the field and
something happens, but that doesn‘t happen all the time, it really doesn‘t, it‘s just the
normal patrols and routine and it‘s boring, but you‘ve got to be alert, and if you get a
chance you sit down and you read something, whatever you can do, you know.
Something they show on TV, of guys when they sit down and they‘re playing cards a
little bit, or whatever, well that happens, that happens. I‘m an avid reader and you read
whatever you can get ahold of, in Vietnam not a whole lot to read, let me tell ya. So, I
had read this one—I had read two books, no a bunch of books, but one book I remember
especially, the last one, about the Marines in WWI. That‘s all there was to read, so I read
it. 20:00 So anyway, so here I am and I‘m out, okay? My mind is somewhere and I‘m
fighting Vietnam in my mind, and I‘m also fighting WWI in my mind. Mix those two
together and that‘s a trip. When I finally came to I was disoriented, I knew I was in a
hospital, but other than that—I had amnesia, couldn‘t remember who I was, nothing, and
36
�I had—in fact it was so bad, I found out from a buddy of mine who was a crew chief on a
Chinook, he told me , because he was there when I was there and he got hit about the
time I got hit, and he told me, he said, ―Yeah, we used to do these medevac‘s and go out
to the USS Sanctuary, which is a hospital ship, or was a hospital ship at that time‖. 21:03
I said, ―Yeah, I was out there for a while. I remember quite distinctly being out there.
They used to put me in a wheelchair, strap me in so I wouldn‘t fall out and wheel me out
on the deck for fresh air, it was great‖. ―Yeah‖, he said, ―People we brought out to the
Sanctuary were scheduled to die‖. I said, ―Really‖, Gordy, he was the crew chief and he
said, ―Yeah, they were scheduled to die, the ones we brought out there‖. I said, ―Whoa,
no one told me that, if I‘d gotten orders I‘d have done that, but I didn‘t, so what can I
say?‖ So, I made it off the Sanctuary, and through the system back to the states, and
wound up in Great Lakes over here by Chicago, and then, of course, recovery after that. I
went to college, got a degree and became a teacher, God help me. 22:02 I stayed with
that a few years and realized that was not for me.
Interviewer: What level were you teaching?
Junior high and high and the people who hired me loved me, I was good, they loved me,
but I just couldn‘t—it wasn‘t for me. So, then I did something else and something else,
and back during the seventies jobs were bad, not as bad as they are now, but they were
bad back then, and you take what you can get. Finally I got a job working for the
Disabled American Veterans, a service organization. The perfect job for me and I
worked there for twenty-one years, and fortunately they were into state retirement, the
same way my teaching was. I worked for the State of Michigan a while, that was state
retirement and it was beautiful, it all bundled together. I worked for the veterans for
37
�twenty-one years and I was a service officer. 23:00
I‘d do the claims, I‘d counsel them,
I‘d do this, that, and everything, you know and I retired and I‘m happy. Really, that‘s
been my life more or less.
Interviewer: A couple of basic questions, and one of them is, as you really got into
things in Vietnam, the routine, patrolling, and the different assignments you were
getting, and stuff was kind of blowing up around you, and that kind of thing, were
you wondering why you were there, did you have some understanding?
No, no, no, I put that all out of my mind. It was a job I had to do and I was sort of numb
to that.
Interviewer: Where you thinking kind of day to day?
Day to day
Interviewer: Were you counting how long—
Was I counting the days? You betcha, I had a calendar, a plain white calendar back at
base camp and I‘d be marking off the days, you know, although I have to be honest about
it, I planned on extending. 24:01 I had a younger brother coming up behind me and at
the time, the word was, it wasn‘t official, was that if you were in service and you were in
Vietnam and you had a sibling who, say got drafted or whatever, they couldn‘t be sent to
Vietnam while you were there. So, even though Marty was six years younger than me, I
had no idea what was going to happen and I thought, ―I‘m going to stay here forever if I
have to, if I have to‖, just so Marty wouldn‘t have to do it and whoo, it was scary.
Interviewer: To look back at the whole thing now, how do you think that whole
experience affected you as a person?
38
�It‘s amazing, it took me thirteen years after I go home—see I was retired out medically
from the Marine Corps, It was that bad. 25:01 It took me thirteen years after that to
fully come to grips with what happened. I was just going through life, I‘d gotten married,
then kids and all—it wasn‘t kids yet, I‘d gotten married and waited for kids, and it was
about thirteen years, and I never really thought about it. I used to talk about it a lot, like I
do now, I can do that now easily again, but I used to do that, but It never really hit me
right there. I could see myself every day how badly chopped up I was, and I knew it was
going to get worse, which it has, I‘ll tell you that, it really does, old age plus all this stuff,
it‘s not a lot of fun, I‘ll tell ya. I didn‘t—I ignored it and then one day I was doing a
claim at the VA, I worked with the Disabled American Veterans, and I was doing my
own claim. 26:04 I knew my parents had received telegrams after I had been hit, from
the Marine Corps, tell how bad I was and what my status was, and they were not great, let
me tell you, they were not great. They were saying, basically, this kid ought to die, he
probably will die, so be prepared, that‘s what the sum of the whole thing is, it was that
bad. I remember, when I got home I looked at those, my mom had them, I read them and
it still didn‘t hit me, even reading the telegrams and I was through it. Finally, thirteen
years later I was doing a claim at the VA, trying to get an extra benefit here or there, or
whatever, you know, and I called my mom, and I was married at the time, and I said to
her, I said, ―Mom, I‘m doing a claim with the VA and I need to use those telegrams‖.
27:04 ―Well‖, she said, ―I don‘t really want to give them, even though they‘re about
you, I don‘t want to give them out. Why don‘t I have your father make copies of them at
work?‖ My father was an automotive engineer and he could go in to work, to the copy
machine, and do anything he wanted to do, you know. So, my mom gathered up the
39
�telegrams and gave them to my dad, he went into work and made copies, and then came
back and the copies were waiting for me at home, or at my parents‘ house. I said to my
wife, ―I‘m going to go over and get the copies later on‖, and what happened was, we
were moving out here. I‘d just gotten the job here, and we were over by Detroit, so our
apartment was all chaos. We had a bar stool sitting in the middle of the floor, so I‘m
sitting on the bar stool with the phone there. 28:05 I‘m sitting there and the phone
rings, my wife gives me the phone, and I‘m sitting on the bar stool talking to my mom. I
said, ―Yeah mom‖, and she said, ―Your father called and said that he had made the copies
and he‘ll bring them home‖, and I said, ―Great, I‘ll be over later on‖, but she said, ―I just
realized I had forgotten to give him one of the telegrams‖, and I said, ―Well‖, I said,
―Gee, I don‘t know if it‘s important or not, why don‘t you read it to me and I‘ll see if It‘s
important‖. A stupid thing to do, God that was so stupid I couldn‘t believe I said that, I
wasn‘t thinking. So, anyway, she reads the telegram to me over the phone, and I‘m
sitting there and I‘m thinking about it and it hits me, the first time in thirteen years, the
first time. 29:00 I went nuts, my wife is just getting ready to go to work, and I‘m sitting
there, I take the phone over my head and slam it into the floor, and my wife is saying,
―What the hell is going on?‖ I started crying uncontrollably, I went to the door, up
against the door, and I‘m pounding on the door, and I‘m thinking, ―Oh my God‖, it gets
me going a little right now, you know, and I‘m thinking, ‗What the hell happened?‖ It
was me, and so my wife picks up the phone and she says, ―Mom‖, she says, and my mom
is going crazy on the other end of the phone, and she says, ―Mom I‘ll get back to you
later, something is wrong with Derek‖, and finally she got me calmed down. I sat down
and I just—it was horrible, I just cried and I told her, I said, ―Geez, that was me‖. 30:00
40
�So, finally I got it together the end of the day, went over to see my parents and we sat
down and we talked at the kitchen table and we cried, God we cried and ever since then
it‘s been better, but I‘ll tell you, traumatic.
Interviewer: What kind of support were you able to get from the Veterans
Administration, or anybody else?
I‘m your typical vet, I‘m in denial, you know, I really am, I‘m in denial, I always was,
but not anymore, I don‘t deny anything anymore, I just don‘t do it, it‘s not worth it. I
went to the VA, of course I had medical problems and dealing with the VA, I went to
them a lot. 31:07 My wife would go with me once in a while and she got disgusted with
it, you know, because it was a crazy system. It got better, but still it never—I never went
for anything emotional, and I never dealt with it and I should have, I should have and I
didn‘t do that until the very end, after I got divorced years later, but then I had already
come to grips with it myself and I was well past that. They had group for people who had
PTSD and everybody who‘s in combat has PTSD, I don‘t care what anybody tells you,
everybody‘s got it to some degree and how you deal with it then is something else too. I
used to—in the very beginning I had nightmares, but I got over that. 32:03 All the stuff
that I saw, I was able to internalize and handle that, and being in the job that I was in,
working for the DAV, that was the greatest counseling in the world. Here I am talking to
people like me, I don‘t care what war they‘re in, we can relate and it‘s therapy. I don‘t
care what anybody tells you, it‘s therapy. We could talk about thing, or different places
we were at, or wars, or whatever, or how things were, and it was great. I get my job done
and they walk out and I always had a goal and that was, anybody that walked in my
office would walk out receiving more than they ever expected to, that was my goal all the
41
�years that I worked, and I lived up to that. I figured, I want to give them everything, and
I did that. 33:02 I did a pretty good job too, all the years that I worked. Like I say, it‘s
one of those things—the VA, as far as the system, the bureaucracy—one thing I always,
and I almost got fired for this, I always—I told my boss this, the hierarch of the DAV, of
course they‘re invested in the VA, my boss was one of them at the time, at least one of
the bosses I had, and I‘d say, ―Mike, this is stupid‖. I said, ―Here we are veterans and the
system is now that you have to go to the clinic here in town, which doesn‘t have a whole
lot of capabilities‖, but they handle basic stuff. If you need more you have to go to a
veteran‘s hospital. How far away is that? 34:01 In this case, not Battle Creek because
that‘s the best Psychiatric unit, and maybe I should have wound up there, I don‘t know,
but you go to Ann Arbor, or Detroit, or Allen park at the time. Yet anybody here in
town, and this was one of the big things, anyone on Medicaid could go locally for
anything they wanted. I said, ―They treat us like second class citizens‖. I used to be
rather vociferous about that and almost got fired, but I didn‘t though. Even though Mike
sympathized with me, he never went to the VA, he was the boss, so he made more
money, he had good health insurance like we did, but he would go privately for all that
stuff and so did everybody else who could do that. That‘s what I do now, my insurance
is fabulous now, I don‘t go to the VA for anything, because I can get it locally,
everything I can get locally and then all I have to do is wait for the end of the year on my
medical, if I have any prescriptions, I take it off my taxes. 35:07 I have to wait a year
for it and with the VA you get it right now. So, you have to wait or go through the
hassle, and that was always the problem with the VA, I just—when I had my hip done
two years ago, my hip wore out because of limping on my left leg for thirty-five plus
42
�years, the right hop wore out, it never got hit. I had that done locally and if I had the VA
do it, I‘d have to go over to Ann Arbor or Detroit, come on now.
Interviewer: A different kind of question. When you got back from Vietnam and
you’re out of the hospital, did you talk to people much about being in Vietnam and
did people ask you stuff?
Remember, I was in denial, so it was easy. I didn‘t get emotional about it and it was very
easy to do that. You find people like you who had been there and you talk about it over a
couple of beers, or whatever, good old times, you know, and you do that. 36:07
Interviewer: Did people who hadn’t been there want to know anything about it, or
did you get treated oddly because you had been there?
At that point it wasn‘t like it was in the sixties, okay. Now, I understand, people had told
me that in the sixties when they came back that they were spit on and called baby killers,
I don‘t remember that because I went through the hospital system on the way back, so I
never—and then when I was in college, I don‘t—there was none of that stuff when I was
in college. People would talk to me about it and that was in the seventies, the early
seventies, 71, 72, 73, and whatever, you know. Yeah, but no, there wasn‘t any of that
stuff, I don‘t remember any of that, and I don‘t know if it ever happened, to tell you the
truth. I know people who didn‘t like the war, and that‘s fine, and I don‘t blame them. I
didn‘t like it and I was there. 37:00 It‘s one of those things, yeah, that you—I didn‘t get
any of that.
Interviewer: As a final thing, if you were going to give any advice, maybe to
military families now, people who’ve got relatives, maybe, over I Iraq or
43
�Afghanistan, or anything like that, about how to support the family members, and
so forth, who are there, what can you tell them?
Well, it‘s a little different now; unfortunately we have a very small group now bearing
the burden. Not like when I was there, we had a large group bearing the burden. That‘s
unfortunate, the war is unfortunate, let‘s put it that way, but you have to, if you‘re a
military family, or a friend of a military family, when these people come home, both men
and women now, when I was there you didn‘t have women in combat, all men, and the
only women you saw in uniform were the nurses, basically that was about it. 38:06
You have to treat them with a lot of respect, you really do, because they‘re bearing a
burden now that even we weren‘t asked to bear, even when I was in Vietnam. Now they
have these ungodly tours, now you have a total obligation that you always sign up for and
you enact part of that obligation you signed up for and the rest is inactive. That‘s what
we were under and they‘re still under that now, except there‘s so few troops they‘re going
for the entire obligation and they‘re keeping you in, I mean, that‘s what they‘ve been
doing. I‘s tough, it‘s duration without saying duration like in WWII. In WW II at least
they‘d say duration and even then though these guys in combat in WWII would go into
combat for whatever short time, they‘d be pulled back and they would go in again, and
pulled back. 39:04 You would go back in and be pulled back, now in Iraq and
Afghanistan you‘re never pulled back, you‘re there all the time, and if the tour is even
longer and you have more tours, no wonder you got a higher PTSD rate going on right
now, no wonder, talk about abusing people, that‘s what it‘s doing. Again, it depends on
the individual, some individuals can take a lot, some individuals can‘t, some individuals
see more, some individuals don‘t, it‘s a whole mix of things. If you‘re a friend of a
44
�family you have to give them consideration, you really do, and we didn‘t have that back
in Vietnam. In WWI I guess they all hung together because they were all together and it
was different.
Interviewer: And there were a lot of them. 40:01
Korea was treated much—and Vietnam were very similar in that way, you didn‘t really
hang together as much as you did in WWII, even though it was a short time after WWII.
Vietnam was that much later and you didn‘t hang together and that‘s the problem it‘s—
and then you see a lot of spouses on TV talking about the VA system. I‘m not talking
about the Walter Reed thing they had, that‘s part of DOD still, except you can get out of
that and it‘s run by the VA now and it‘s a hassle. While you in, medical care is beautiful,
it‘s fabulous, and then when you get to the outpatient, while you‘re still in the service and
when you‘re not actually in the hospital ward all the time , it‘s a little better, except for
this thing out at Walter Reed where someone screwed up there royal, and the VA, you get
out and you‘re on your own. Unless somebody tells you what‘s going on, you‘re picking
up little bits of information here and there and everywhere, you don‘t know. 41:08
That‘s where people like me come in with our jobs. We spread the word, not that we did
a great job, we did what we could, and yeah, it‘s a tough time. When both these wars
started I had my misgivings, I did, I really did, I had misgivings about it. They were
saying in and out real quick , well we can do that, with a great military you can do that,
but afterward, that‘s where the hassle comes in and it‘s a mess.
Interviewer: We do what we can to provide whatever support we can.
That‘s right, it‘s—you really have to support these people, it‘s—I have a lot of friends of
mine that are Vietnam vets an, of course, after Desert Storm and guys came back from
45
�that very short thing they had going and they got the parades and the accolade‘s and that.
42:03 The guys my age were saying, ―We didn‘t get any of that stuff‘. We got nothing,
we got ignored and I used to say, ―Hey that‘s just the way it is, you can‘t change it‖, and
now with the guys coming back there‘s—again they‘re getting accolade‘s, thanks and the
whole thing, you know, and that‘s great, you should do that, but still some of the guys my
age, we‘re hanging together and we didn‘t get any of that stuff
Interviewer: That’s in part because of what happened with you guys. They began
to realize, after Korea, that it was not fair.
Exactly, that‘s exactly, Korea wasn‘t fair, same thing that happened in Korea happened in
Vietnam.
Interviewer: You have to separate the politics from it, and at least part of that
lesson seems to have sunk in.
You really do—the guy across the street from me, Marine Corps reserve, spent a tour in
Iraq, he came home and I went over and talked to him right away. He knew I retired, you
know, I mean, I understand, I understand. 43:07 I told him, I said, ―You‘re back, you
weren‘t hurt, thank God‖, and we talked a bit and then another guy across the street,
Larry, he was in the service during Vietnam, did make it to Vietnam, but he was in, and
his son is in the Marine Corps and fortunately for him, his son is in a specialty that he‘ll
never go to Iraq or Afghanistan, it‘s one of those jobs, you know, he‘s—so he‘s lucky,
yeah, lucky, and we‘ve talked and I tell him, I say, ―Jeff, geese, you‘re lucky, you‘re not
missing anything, believe me‖. He sees me hobbling around and I do what I do, I‘m on
motorcycles, I just got through snowmobiling, so I do things, but I say, ―Hey, it‘s tough,
it‘s tough‖. I‘m going to be sixty in July, come on sixty. 44:05 I want to be sixty real
46
�bad, I really do. The decade of my fifties was not great. Three major operations, my
forth minor operation is coming up next month, I retired, got divorced, all in ten years,
how‘s that?
Interviewer: Well, let’s hope for a better decade.
Now, let‘s go for the sixties, huh?
Interviewer: Thank you very much for talking to us.
47
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
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1914-
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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FlackD
Title
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Flack, Derek (Interview transcript and video), 2008
Creator
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Flack, Derek
Description
An account of the resource
Derek Flack is a Vietnam veteran who served in the U.S. Marine Corps from July, 1966 to April, 1969. Flack provides detailed discussions of training in California and service in Vietnam during and after the Tet Offensive. Flack was wounded in action and eventually sent back to the US, where he has worked extensively with veterans' organizations.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.)
BCTV
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Army. Medical Corps
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Video recordings
Language
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eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2008-01-29
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/41930243c464f8ee578e0db60a156e3b.mp4
6a6c66f2a31a9a9971a7e8db201540b6
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cb4b92034b7e2a36084d9177549d7594.pdf
fe4eb31d3d7d5996530d9b7c424ad080
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Projects
Charles Fisher
(1:49:00)
Background information (00:27)
He was born in Irish Hills, Michigan in 1921. (00:32)
His dad died of a heart attack when he was 2 in 1923. (00:59)
When he was 4 in 1925 his family moved to Wyandot, Michigan. (1:07)
While living in Wyandot he often shot rats and snakes for entertainment. This is
what led to him being such a good shot in his military service. (1:40)
His mother remarried but kept his real father’s last name. (2:01)
He had 4 brothers and sisters. (2:41)
He stayed in school through the 8th grade (approx. 1935). He attended a catholic
school called St. Patrick’s. (3:18)
At age 16 (1937) he managed gas stations. After that, he worked in a metal shop
factory. (4:04)
Before the age of 18 he was skilled in the trades of die setting and machine repair.
He was a floor man of production machine shop when Pearl Harbor happened in
December of 1941. (6:35)
Because he was married and had a 2 year old daughter he didn’t have to go into
service but he decided to volunteer. (8:20)
He enlisted in approx. 1943. (9:20)
His job offered him a deferment if he wanted it (9:40)
He enlisted in Flat Rock, Michigan. (10:00)
He was next sent to Great Lakes Naval Base (10:46)
Basic training (11:00)
His basic training took place in Arkansas but he did not recall what base. (11:10)
Basic training included a lot of training with fire arms as well as physical training
such as crawling under barbed wire with machine guns firing overhead and lots of
marching. (11:30)
There was a lot of emphasis placed on discipline and following orders during basic
training. (13:05)
He did not think it was too difficult to adjust to military life. (13:30)
The first thing the men had to do when arriving for basic training was scrubbing
pots and pans. (14:41)
He was about 3 years older than the other men he trained with. Because of this, men
tended to look up to him. (15:15)
One of his friends he had form his unit recounted that he was seen as a leader.
(17:00)
After his basic training was complete he was given 10 days leave during which he
went home. (17:46)
�
Next he was sent to Camp Butner North Carolina. Here he was placed in the 89th
devotion (18:09)
Here the men were kept busy (18:58)
He spent about 15-26 days in North Carolina. (20:26)
After being assigned deviations, he was sent to Boston to sail to New York and then
Europe. (20:58)
He sailed on a victory ship. (21:34)
The voyage over in the winter of 1944 was fairly calm, however coming back was
rough. (22:48)
While on the voyage he saw a U.S. destroyer and he heard depth charges deployed
when below deck. (23:50)
The food was horrible. Salt water was used for much of the cooking. (24:30)
Arrival in France (25:20)
Once in France he was placed in a camp. While there his food accidentally went to
England so the men were given toast and gravy till food could be sent to them.
(25:26)
While here he was made to dig foxholes in wet terrain and get in it to prepare them
for battle. (26:00)
He left the base to go inland in a blizzard; he saw a truck driving that had 8 bodies in
its back stacked on top of one another. (26:40)
He moved inland in trucks. (27:40)
Action in Europe (28:00)
He is moving in post the Battle of the Bulge. (post January 1945) (28:03)
When he reached the area where the Battle of the Bulge took place his unit was just
helping clean up. Most of the heavy fighting was over. (28:35)
When he left North Carolina he was made 1st Scout. (28:50)
Because of his 1st Scout rank, he was at times asked to do special things like check
bridges and lead his men when going into hostile territory. (29:20)
His time in action overlaps and runs together. He does not remember his first action.
(30:30)
He didn’t have a way of telling when there were Germans besides sight. (31:35)
He was put on assignment once to go capture a German, but he surrendered so the
task was fairly simple. (32:06)
He was assigned to check bridges for security approx. 6 times. (32:38)
His movement took him through Luxemburg, Belgium, Germany and Hungary.
(32:50)
The countryside was dotted with many bombed out buildings. (33:23)
He fought in mostly farm land. This he liked better than traveling in cities. (34:02)
Because he was point man often, he also had to look for mines. When a man found a
mine, he placed a handkerchief on it to mark it. (35:15)
�
He and his unit fought mostly infantry. (36:30)
He did not experience very many encounters with artillery or aircraft aside for one
encounter when he was in a house and heard a germen jet fly overhead. (32:03)
He thought the German soldiers were well trained and intelligent. However near the
end of the war, the Germans turned to old men and boys and they were less skilled.
(37:59)
He did encounter SS troops. These soldiers were much more disciplined (39:20)
The closest he got to an SS soldier was when he was the first American soldier into a
concentration camp. (40:00)
Seeing the concentration camp made him angry. The day after Americans entered,
General Eisenhower made every individual in the town come out and look at what
the Germans were doing. (41:10)
He knew nothing of these camps before he discovered one himself. (42:11)
Encounters with civilians (42:30)
Most of the civilians stayed in their homes when he and his unit passed through.
(42:40)
On one occasion he approached a door to a house and heard children screaming.
This made him think of his daughter. (43:00)
One of the civilians was used to signal the approach of oncoming American soldiers.
(43:20)
On this occasion the Germans did not attack but rather retreated to the other side of
the town. But while they were escaping he shot one of the men attempting to escape
on a bicycle. (44:20)
He himself never got injured in ombat. (46:25)
He went through 2 rifles. One he broke attempting to break his fall. (46:48)
Specific memories (47:10)
He had to cross the Moselle River 3 times. (47:20)
When reaching the top of a hill overlooking the river he realized how easy a target
he and his unit were when crossing. (48:20)
They crossed the Moselle River in rafts. (48:40)
On one occasion one of his friends was killed by a grenade. (52:40)
Another one of the men was killed by a grenade that detonated while on his belt.
(43:38)
When Germans surrendered they would put their hands up and at the same time
knock their helmets off and put their hands on their head. (54:20)
His unit crossed the Rhine River in DUKWs (an amphibious vehicle.) (55:42)
He crossed the Rhine River at 3 AM with no resistance. (56:17)
Post German surrender April 1945 (56:30)
He remembered being told to stop and let the Russians take Berlin when outside the
city. (56:50)
�
The Russians where mostly big people and they had a bullish personality. (57:20)
After the German surrender there was a group of Germans he encountered who
wanted to keep fighting. (58:59)
This encounter resulted in the death of a machine gun operator in his unit. (1:00:30)
There was a little town he encountered were some Germans were holding out. He
and some other men were sent in. (1:02:17)
The Germans fired upon him and his unit. He took cover. (1:03:36)
The unit pulled out. But Charles was not informed his unit had left. So he shot
rounds along a creek where the fire was coming from. Using the suppressing fire he
successful escaped. (1:04:49)
This encounter was the last active combat he was in. (1:06:08)
The Occupation of Germany, Germany post April 1945. (1:06:22)
He and his unit were sent to France thinking they were going home. However the
war was still occurring with the U.S. and Japan. (1:06:31)
He was made a truck driver who delivered fuel. (1:07:09)
One day he was smoking a cigar he almost caused an ignition of the gasoline.
(1:09:08)
He disliked truck drivers in the army because they didn’t fight, stole rations, and had
sex with French girls. (1:10:19)
He didn’t have enough points to go home so he was sent to Innsbruck, Austria.
(1:12:28)
He was stationed at an Austrian cavalry barracks. (1:13:06)
He built a sign while there for his division and regiment. (1:13:40)
He also painted all the states on the windows of their mess hall. (1:15:02)
While painting he was provided with several German artists who were prisoners of
war to aid in his project. (1:17:34)
Most of the prisoners where the same age as the U.S. soldiers. (1:18:35)
He was in Austria from (approx. June of 1945-December 1946)(1:19:41)
He recalls Russian soldiers getting drunk on another side of the river and shooting
at the U.S. solders. (1:20:00)
Once while on patrol the Russians opened fire on him. (1:21:01)
There was a bar and a dance hall near the cleverly base for entertainment. (1:22:04)
Girls were aloud in to dance with. (1:22:45)
He learned a little bit of the German language as well as the French language.
(1:23:30)
When coming back from checking a bridge to see if it was booby trapped, he visited
the Colonels who had a nice feather bed and a hot meal. (1:24:27)
He went to one of the houses he was stationed in and asked for bread and wine. He
was invited in and was given a full dinner. (1:26:15)
This house that offered food was in a very rural area. (1:28:40)
�Leaving Germany (1:29:40)
The men were sent home individually rather than his entire unit as a time. (1:29:50)
He went home on a victory ship. It took 10 days. (1:29:45)
Some of the victory ships broke in half due to the conditions. (1:30:34)
The weather on the trip back was bad and he did not believe he would make it
home. (1:31:00)
He landed on (Staten Island) New York. (1:31:13)
Once here he was placed on a train and sent back to Camp McCoy, Wisconsin.
(1:31:50)
At Camp McCoy he was given a brief discharge as part of his discharge. (1:32:23)
There was no encouragement for him to join the reserves. (1:32:58)
He went back to Jackson Michigan(1:33:35)
When he was out of the army he worked in supervision in factories due to his floor
experience before the war. (1:33:44)
At age 27 he was superintended of 2 factories and at age 35 he was general manager
of a factory. (1:33:52)
He quit the job after his wages where cut and the factory was sold. (1:34:16)
He ran another business after quitting his factory management job. (1:36:20)
In the recession of 1957 he worked in fabrications and stamping of metal. (1:37:50)
He then decided to sell his factory and become a Freelance sales representative.
(1:39:10)
In 1957 he bought a home on the shore of Lake Michigan for 37,000$ (1:40:00)
His wife died in 1993. (1:41:20)
Effects of Service (1:42:30)
It was a great experience he would not want to trade for anything but he would not
want to do it over either. (1:42:40)
He used to have nightmares about encounters he had in the service. (1:43:05)
He still dreams of it but in a positive way. (1:43:30)
When he returned for service he was a very jealous man and easily angered. This led
experts to believe that he may have had PTSD. (1:43:50)
A lot of this anger originated from the absence of help readjusting to society.
(1:44:17)
His military experience did make him want to strive to obtain a higher degree of
proficiency in his work. (1:46:23)
On one occasion he made his wife go to the unemployment agency because he was
too embarrassed to go there himself. (1:46:59)
�Charles Fisher Home Movie
(1:00:09)
*Note: Because this is a different interview the time coding starts over. Also because
information is repeated from the first interview some information is spoken but not
rewritten on the outline.
Home movie (post April 1945) (00:10)
The men are traveling from France to Austria. (1946). (00:14)
The Danube River is depicted. (00:55)
Typical towns had clock towers. (1:08)
The Austrian cleverly barracks. (1:22)
Here there was a Russian American Check point. (2:00)
He before the war in 1943. He had his tooth kicked out. (4:30)
Beginning of interview (6:20)
People were very supportive of the war when it began in late 1942. (7:17)
Some men thought if they got a job making military parts they wouldn’t have to go
into the service. (7:45)
His child was 2 years old when he left in 1943 and 4 when he got back in 1945.
(8:00)
His wife was not too unhappy he enlisted. She frequently visited him in basic
training. (8:30)
The more extensive training (I and R) was training to capture German soldiers. He
was also trained on how to operate all vehicles even some German ones such as a
motorcycle. (9:54)
He was given the choice of being a scout or a sniper after training. (10:40)
He chose not to be a sniper. (11:40)
1st Scouts had a high mortality rate. (12:05)
He was in the 89th infantry division, 353rd Regiment in Patton’s 3rd Army. (13:12)
He ate primarily K rations. They included typically, among other things, a packet of
coffee and a solid piece of chocolate. (14:40)
He was supposed to be issued rations however being in the front lines he was often
not able to get any and had to ask civilians for bread. (17:49)
He also had difficulty receiving mail while in combat. (19:20)
When he returned to HQ after checking if a bridge was booby trapped, he was told
that he could sleep in the HQ building for the night and he would not be woken up
until he was done sleeping. (23:08)
He was issued a small book that gave useful information on languages he might
encounter such as German and French. (24:40)
While traveling he often encountered dead cattle and livestock in the country side.
(26:29)
�
The men typically slept in foxholes. If the men knew they would be staying in it for
an extended period they would often add things such as shelves for food or a place
to make coffee. (27:00)
If it was raining or snowing he would use fur branches to make a shelter over his
foxhole. (28:20)
On one occasion he tackled one of his fellow soldiers for being an “army bully” and
stealing some of the candy he had received from home. (31:06)
He did not receive discipline for this action however he did for giving some French
civilians cigarettes. (32:28)
He captured a German soldier only to have him later be shot by his Sergeant. (33:00)
One night while in the foxhole, the man he was with was so afraid his teeth were
chattering. (35:35)
Latter, the man who was beside him in the foxhole was made a hero after an entire
unit of German soldiers surrendered to him near the end of the war. (36:34)
Encounter with the concentration camp. (37:45)
He had no knowledge of the genocide of the Jews but saw slander of the Jews in
towns he passed. (38:50)
Once in the camps, the prisoners were often robbed of their valuables including gold
teeth. (39:30)
The town’s people near the camp claimed to know nothing of what was going on
inside the camps. (40:26)
End of the war (April 1945) (41:00)
He was still required to go on night patrols even after the end of the war in April of
1945. (42:27)
One a night patrol after the German surrender, a Sergeant was killed on a night
patrol. (45:00)
The return home. (47:12)
He came home by train to Detroit. (47:40)
The army gave him a lot of spam to eat. Because of this, he never wanted to eat it
again. (48:40)
When he came home the hilarity of the war being over had subsided. (49:50)
He stayed with his sister in Jackson Michigan after finding a job as a die setter.
(51:00)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
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1914-
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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FisherC1118V
Title
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Fisher, Charles (Interview outline and video), 2011
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Fisher, Charles
Description
An account of the resource
Charles Fisher served as a 1st scout in the 89th infantry division 353rd regiment of Patton's 3rd Army. During this interview Charles Fisher's recounts action during his service from 1943 to 1946 including one occasion in which he was the first American solider to enter a concentration camp. He also touches briefly on is home life including his employment and management of factories. This interview includes a supplemental video with some home movie footage that he shot in Europe after the war and an earlier interview recorded by his daughters.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Camp, Suzanne (Interviewer)
Rightmire, Joan (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2011-06-07
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0172a3062d99f398fe9d50ff85b609b2.mp4
47193585c128ed708a6a9b8adb3709a1
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c054b3817ef2220ab3d9fb19c8bc0a84.pdf
c488c9f2b653536c0f2819fdfed5c4f0
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Vietnam
Interviewee: Mike Fields
Length of Interview: 01:03:44
Background:
He was born of 1939 in Seattle, Washington.
He was only there a month or so before he mom moved back to southern California to be
with his dad.
They lived in different cities around Los Angeles until he was 7 years old, and then they
moved to Oregon.
His father worked at a defense plant, building planes.
After he moved to Oregon, his father worked as a mechanic.
He would attend high school then.
Back then you were subject to the draft when you turned 18 and he didn’t want to be in
the Army and march everywhere, nor did he want to be in the Navy and get sea sick.
And he always liked planes.
He thought they had they had the best looking uniform, except for the Marine Corps
blues.
He decided to join the Air Force because he grew up in a small farming community and
there were really no other talents to learn besides farming and he didn’t really want to do
that. So the military looked like a good option.
Originally he intended to make it a career.
He would enlist in 1957, right after high school, but there was a waiting list. He would
be officially inducted on July 17th.
He would be sent to Lackland Air Force Base, in Texas. It is now the only Air Force
Basic Training Camp open today. They used to have two more, one in California and one
in New York, but now they have consolidated everything.
Training (3:40)
The training consisted of some classroom time.
An hour was spent on military courtesies and how to recognize the different ranks and the
different services.
There was also drilling.
They also had 3 days of survival training, where at the end they would have to qualify to
receive their weapon. You have to qualify once a year to make sure that you keep up
with it.
He thinks everyone has problems adjusting to basic training. It’s a very big culture
shock. After the first week or so though there were no problems.
Discipline and obeying orders was a huge part of their training. They had to call anyone
above their own rand sir, which was normally reserved for the commissioned officers.
�
If it was above 90 degrees, all outside training was suspended. So they spent the
afternoon training inside one day, and they practiced saluting.
Training lasted 12 weeks.
After that he ended up going to Airborne Radio Repair School, which was located at
Scott Air Force Base, Illinois.
The facility there was much more relaxed.
The buildings were very old and they had to use coal for heating.
Each person had to have their fair share of firing duty. They all had to march to class in
formation, they had to address all their instructors as sir even though some of them were
civilians and some of them were females.
They taught them about 6 weeks of basic electronic theory. After learning about it, they
would have to put back together some things that their instructors had taken apart. They
had about 6 or 7 different sets to fix.
They radios that the crew used and some of the navigation stuff that was used as well.
He would pass doing well enough.
While he was there he would have a Class A liberty pass. You carry it with you and
whenever you’re not on duty you can leave the post.
There were dances or movies they could do for fun.
They were neighbors with the people of that community and they tried to treat them with
respect. Anyone who caused trouble was dealt with harshly.
There’s always guys going off and getting drunk. Since Scott was federally owned
property things cannot be dealt with there by the local police. There was one time when
this guy was being chased by the cops, for what, he doesn’t know. And he drove through
the main gate and the guard at the gate stopped the cop, because he was not allowed in
there.
After he completed the radio training he was sent to Portland, Oregon for his first
assignment.
Active Duty (9:40)
He would live 90 miles from home.
He would be assigned to the 460th Fighter Interceptor Group at the Air Defense
Command. Today, ADC doesn’t exist as it was taken over by Strategic Air Command
because they tend to run both tactical and intercept missions.
Originally, when he got there they had Korean vintage F-89’s, Scorpions. A good
aircraft but not a loved one. Usually if you lost one engine, you went down.
Shortly after he got there they transitioned to F-102’s which were top-of-the-line at the
time. They were the first plane that could go faster than the speed of sound at level flight.
He would work as an aircraft radio repairman.
They had more non-coms than ordinary enlisted men. There were so many WWII and
Korean veterans there, killing time until retirement, that there was no room for
advancement.
So he was cross-trained to be an administrative clerk, which was the only place you could
earn rank because there was no retention.
�
He had to give up the stripes to become a clerk, but he got his stripes back on minimum
time and grade.
He would spend about a year as a radio repairman.
While working in that position he would check the planes before they went out and
checked them when they came back. In between then, you studied what the Air Force
called technical orders, or TO’s, and they were all manuals about the aircraft.
You just make yourself as familiar with the planes as you could. And when you got gone
with them, you would look through the TO’s of the equipment. Every piece of
equipment had its own TO, right down to the spare tire on the jeep.
You would get tested periodically for your skill levels. The Air Force has skill levels at
1,3,5,7, and 9. And you can only go to a certain rank at each skill level. Once you’ve
achieved that level, you start practicing for the next level. Each year you are tested at
that skill level.
He believes that is smart. It makes sure people haven’t been goofing off and losing their
skills, forgetting things.
When he was there, the Cold War was going on. He had two instances of where he
thought a war with Russia might break out.
The first one was when he was sent to Labrador. And while he was up there, they had
the Berlin Wall crisis. They had all of the military services on alert. A lot of reserves
had been called into action in Europe.
The second time he was transferred to K.I. Sawyer Base, near Marquette, Michigan. And
while he was up there, the Cuban Missile Crisis at the time.
His brother was in the Navy at the time, assigned to an old WWII liberty ship in the
Philippines. They made a record of going from the Philippines, through the Panama
Canal and up to Cuba, with a load of ready Marines.
Living Portland, it sort of felt like a regular job, but they also had regular tests, tactical
evaluations and operation readiness evaluations. During these, a siren would go off in the
early morning hours, and the base would be run exactly as if you were in war, for a
couple of days at least.
Normally, when the siren goes off, you grab your nearest clothes and get to your station.
Then as soon as things calm down, the non-commissioned officer will go around and
send people to the barracks to change their clothes and then to the mess hall, to get
something to eat. And then they would come back, and resume normal duties.
When he became a clerk, during simulated wartime conditions, non-essential personnel
are put on other duties. So he was placed on a turnaround crew. When the F-102’s came
in, you would have to basically prepare them for another mission. And this is stuff
you’re not initially trained for. And the chief officer usually wasn’t there.
Instead there would be one of the crew who was there who told you what to do.
While he was working as a clerk, he worked for the chief of maintenance. His office
was in the hanger and he was in charge of maintenance of all the aircraft there.
They had maintenance orders, maintenance directives to type up all the time. Letters
needed to be typed. Fortunately, he had two semester of typing in high school.
He would live on base at that time, but would go off base with his liberty pass. (18:30)
Eventually, he would get transferred to Labrador. These would be a routine transfer that
occurred every couple of years.
�Labrador (18:50)
He wanted to go to Germany or Japan, but everybody did. He got lucky.
They worst part about being in Labrador was that he was supposed to serve a year of duty
and he was sent back a month early. 3 weeks before Bob Hope came up.
They were on a mountain top, 10 miles from the main base. He worked at a radar sight.
They had a “bus”, a 2-ton truck with a house built on the back of it, to take people to and
from the radar sight.
There, they made him the squadron mail clerk, and he was also the courier. He would
have a truck to use to go and get mail. He was not allowed to let anyone ride in the cab
with him, but he could bring people in the back.
The weather there is very much like the U.P. The lakes were great fishing, according to
some.
There were about 300-400 people working at the radar station. They had their own
storage, mess hall, and everything.
It would be the same as working on the base except for the time of duty. On the base,
you had to serve 18 months while at the radar station you only had to serve a year.
They had easy access to the base, but had to make sure they could be back in time to
attend to their duties.
They even had their own radio station up there. He was a volunteer DJ up there. The
Canadian government would not let them put up an antenna. But they found another way
to get their station not only out to eastern Canada, but also up to Greenland.
They played a little bit of everything on the station.
The base primarily a fighter base. They did have refueling aircraft there. They also had
modified B-29’s.
Occasionally, it would be a place for planes to stop by in transit to and from the Atlantic,
but more often those went to New Finland. Politically, Labrador is part of Newfoundland.
There were some natives there who worked for them. Apparently they paid better than
the Canadian Air Force.
There was a village not too far from where they were at called Happy Valley.
There was a bar there, where occasionally some of the boys would get liquored. One
time, one decided that he wanted to take on a few Mounties. Minimum requirements for
Mounties at the time were 6’6” and 250 lbs. And this guy was pretty average. It really
shows courage out of the bottle.
At the time of the Berlin Wall Crisis, they were going about their normal duties. The
base was being used as a midway stop for all military aircraft.
Later on, he was working there and someone, they don’t know who it was, only that they
were military, blew up a couple of radio towers in the desert in Utah. It caused so much
of a panic that they were given their weapons with live ammunition; the first time since
basic training they had live ammo.
Come to find out, it was the work of the IRA, in 1960 when they were still really active.
The second line of defense looked for soviet aircraft. He never heard anything if there
were any aircraft because it was a strictly a need to know basis.
Back when he was in Portland, the ADC and the Canadian Air Defense got together and
created NORAD. They would have one of their fighters go out to the Bering Sea and
�
turn off their identification. The point of the exercise was to see how far he got before
they could identify it. He got a bit into Alaska, but never made it to Canada.
While in Labrador, if they had any unidentified bogeys they would send fighters up to try
and identify the craft as well.
He would then be transferred to K.I. Sawyer
K.I. Sawyer (28:25)
It’s near Marquette, Michigan.
That part of the U.P. is populated with people from Finland, or at least their descendants.
They were good people, but when you got in town and they did not like military people.
You would have to wait 20-30 minutes before getting a glass of water.
He doesn’t really understand the hostility other than other branches of the service, who
don’t try to get along with the locals.
There again, when they were up there they got to go off base and visit the cities.
While he was there, they had $2 pay days. This is where they would try to give out as
much pay as they could in $2 bills. This is supposed to bring attention to the locals just
how much military is there. No other action was taken. And of course, everybody gets
the day off.
It didn’t do any good. The only good he can think of with the locals was when they said
they were going to close K.I. Sawyer. Suddenly they were very “buddy-buddy”
He served with all kinds of people from all different walks of life.
He didn’t feel like there were any cultural or racial tensions while he was on base. He
saw tension within ethnic groups, but never between ethnic groups.
Of the 70 men that he trained with about half were African American. They were good
guys. Some of them were from the streets and needed some polishing, but they were
good guys. They were a little defensive, but if he had lived their life, he probably would
have been too.
As long as you could pass the physical, the Air Force would take pretty much anybody.
He did know a man who was inducted in Portland and he got down to Lackland and when
they had him do all of the testing, they had to send him home because he was slightly
retarded. A wonderful person who wanted to help and contribute.
Morale was pretty good most of the time on the bases that he served. The Air Force tried
to make it that way as much as they could.
First of all the food was great. He was in 6 years and 4 months and he only had 2 meals
where they were iffy.
They had steak every Sunday dinner, served on china. Every Friday some kind of
seafood. They had lobster tails once in a while.
The Air Force keeps morale up with goodies, like good food and pride in their
professionalism. If you don’t keep up with the professional standards, you will be
involuntarily cross-trained or you will be reclassified to a civilian. Depending on what
you did decided if you were discharged with honor, dishonorably or less than honorably
conditions.
The Air Force tends to be lenient with people in that regard.
�
When he was at KI Sawyer, he was on the Standardization Board. It was his job to make
sure crews maintained efficiency at their jobs.
A lot of it was top secret, so he can’t say a whole lot about it, but these were full crews
with gunner, teaching gunners and tanker crews.
Then he was pulled out of there and moved to the alert facility and things there were very
relaxed, unless the alarm goes off.
When they have nuclear weapons on a plane, they are not allowed to board alone; they
have to have someone else with them. It’s called a two-man policy.
Well, one day something had happened and everybody was in a scramble and one man
tried to board a plane by himself. He was stopped by a security guard and would later
complain to his boss that he was stopped.
But the boss didn’t do anything for the man, saying that the man did what he was trained
to do, and if he hadn’t he would be on his way out of the Air Force. (39:30)
That young lieutenant learned a lesson that day. He honestly thought he was doing the
right thing, but he learned.
He was up there for when the Cuban Missile Crisis happened. But he was stuck
underground from when Kennedy made his speech until December 22, so he didn’t get to
see a whole lot of what was happening in the world.
They had a lot to do; otherwise the men on duty would go bonkers. So they were kept
pretty busy.
The intensity level was pretty much the same and they were already ready.
He remembers Kennedy saying that they were to respect Khrushchev as a peace seeker.
He would be in the Air Force for another year after this happened.
He considered reenlisting, but he was getting really bored. The only thing they offered
him was a position as a general’s orderly. It’s not a bad duty, but he just didn’t want to
do that.
He had no idea what he wanted to do, even when he got that.
It was probably the dumbest thing he ever did, leaving the Air Force. But if he had not
gotten out then he probably would never have met his wife. So, he believes things
happen for a reason.
Post Duty (45:45)
After he got out of the Air Force, he went and lived with his mother in Illinois and got a
job at a bookstore down there.
He became engaged to a girl who lived in Grand Rapids and moved up here to live near
here. The engagement, however, did not work out.
He stayed in Grand Rapids anyway and worked as a bookkeeper for an oil company.
Then he worked as an aircraft instrument calibrator for a company that is now closed.
He would spend most of his adult life doing electrical work, mostly with vending
machines.
For the last 3 or 4 years he worked as a PC Engineer.
The Air Force gave him a lot of self-confidence. He learned that he could do a lot more
than he thought he could do. He found out in Lackland that his IQ was 125.
�
He believes that people should join the armed forces to give themselves a sense of worth
and self-confidence.
He also believes that they should do away with the requirement of a high school diploma
to get kids off the street and something to do. He believes it will give them a purpose.
One time in basic training, one man went AWOL. Then next day, they found out he was
AWOL in the Marine Corps. So he would be in double trouble when they catch him.
He extended his enlistment by 4 months so he could go to Europe, England for a
temporary duty there. He enjoyed thoroughly. He still did clerical work while he was
there for USAFE, United States Air Force Europe.
He got into Cambridge quite frequently, but he got into London once. He got to a theater
and saw the opening of James Bond: From Russia with Love.
The English were very friendly to him and he really enjoyed his time over there.
While he was over there, there was a problem with men taking women into their tents to
have “personal time”. They were not allowed to be in the tents. So that personal time
was spent in the neighboring fields instead. But, if the girl didn’t say “yes” then you
would be forced to marry her. (58:30)
He would also have his first experience with traffic circles, or roundabouts over there.
Their electrical system there is all underground from the years of the blitz. Even though
there were no more blitzes, it’s useful because they don’t have the outages like we do
here.
It’s very expensive to own a car over there, so they make them last.
He really wanted to spend some time touring Ireland and Scotland, but he didn’t have the
time.
When he was in Portland, he used to ride up with some of the men driving the WWII
transports.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FieldsM
Title
A name given to the resource
Fields, Mike (Interview outline and video), 2010
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Fields, Mike
Description
An account of the resource
Mike Fields served in the United States Air Force from 1957 to 1963. He trained as an aircraft radio technician, but wound up performing a wide assortment of duties on air bases in Oregon, Labrador and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Most of his assignments were with units involved in defense against possible attacks from the Soviet Union.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2010-07-27
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/53d38664ac4729fae1a3bb7cd93b405e.mp4
ea0a8b59b5a8f174087d5e5743d14a1a
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3f0b63f5631c1a86616fb681956869d1.pdf
fd9d865a208f95ed0dd073afd847d57a
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Leonard Feerick Jr.
(00:53:00)
Introduction (00:10)
Family and Friend (00:15)
•
•
Born in Sparta, MI on February 8, 1925 in his home, delivered by a midwife.
Feerick Jr. mentioned that he attended K-12 in a very small room which has
long since been demolished. (04:12)
Pre-enlistment (05:34)
•
Feerick describes the shock and dismay that people had when Pearl Harbor
was attacked. What followed were feelings of hatred towards Japanese
Americans. He mentions the resentment Americans had towards them. (06:04)
Enlistment and Basic training (07:34)
•
Feerick Jr. mentions that he didn’t want to join the navy. While he was in line
at the recruitment station in Detroit the navy representative took everyone
who was in line up to a certain point and those people joined the navy. (07:34)
•
Afterwards, he went to the reception center in Fort Custer, MI to take tests to
help the armored forces determine where to best place him. They saw that he
had mechanic skills and so they placed him in the army air corps. (08:37)
•
Went to Miami Beach, FL for basic training. Unlike many trainees who had to
train in the dust, he trained on the beach. (09:35) Stayed in Palmer House and
describes his living arrangements. Had previously picked up his uniform at
Fort Custer.
•
Typical days usually consisted of waking up; reporting for roll call, cleaning
their hotel rooms, and drilling. Briefly mentions that while marching they
were expected to sing. (15:36) Conducted close-ordered drills at a golf course.
His training was nothing as difficult as what the typical marine or infantryman
went through.
•
Spent 6 weeks there. (17:32) Afterwards, went to Gulfport, Mississippi where
he went to mechanical training school. Feerick Jr. learned about hydraulics,
physics, etc. (19:37) Frequently listened to the radio of news of the war
abroad.
�•
At one point, he and a few other soldiers were taken out of mechanical school
before graduating and sent on ships to England. While waiting for a ship to
take them to England they did nothing. (22:47)
•
From there, he went to Camp Kilmer, NJ but on the way spent a few days in
Greensboro, NC where a few of the men came down with measles and were
quarantined for a few weeks. (24:16)
The Crossing (24:31)
•
From Camp Kilmer, NJ they boarded a French cruise ship, recently converted
into a passenger ship, and were crowded in it by the thousands. (24:31)
•
Briefly describes the regular emergency drills that they had while aboard ship
during the crossing and that many came down with sea sickness.
England (27:14)
•
Landed in Liverpool, England and was there a few days. He than went to an
airfield where a combination of British-American fighter pilots were
stationed. While there, Feerick Jr. briefly mentions the small barracks he
shared with a small group of Canadians and colonials. (27:14)
•
From there, he went to Sudbury, England where he was supposed to be trained
in how to handle bombers but wasn’t. (28:35) Instead, he had various
responsibilities in the officer’s mess hall and cafeteria. (30:40)
•
Feerick Jr. briefly mentions various exercises done by Mustang fighters over
the base as they would fight mock battles. (33:14) Mentions that one pilot
always buzzed by the house of the superior officer who transferred him off the
base.
•
Describes the atmosphere of living on the base. (35:23) He mentions that
often when he went to bed his bunkmates played cards. (37:33)
•
At around the time of the Battle of the Bulge, he was transferred to Tinsworth,
England where he underwent infantry training. Tells of a particular sergeant
who had psychological problems because of his time in a bunker when a shell
exploded near his position. (39:22)
•
It was soldiers like this that trained Feerick Jr. and others how to shoot a gun,
crawl through trenches, and drill. He mentions that he crawled under chicken
wire. Shares his personal thoughts. (41:14)
•
On one occasion, an instructor pulled a rip cord on a hand grenade and threw
it. Feerick Jr. mentions diving for cover as the grenade exploded scattering
�guns and men alike. (42:32) The point of the exercise was to see how the
trainees reacted.
France and Germany (46:05)
•
After training in England, the war in Europe came to an end. Feerick Jr.
mentions that he was then sent to France where he went to clerk-typist school
in preparation for working for the military government in Berlin, Germany.
•
Worked in Berlin, Germany on the Russians-side of the Berlin Wall. Briefly
describes traveling the Autobahn and shares his thoughts on that.
•
Briefly describes a few encounters with German people and their feelings of
Allied occupation. (46:05) He further describes the hostility that the Russians
had towards Americans on their side of the wall. In one encounter, he was
touring East Berlin on a tour bus and wanted to get off to see the sights but
wasn’t allowed to. Describes what the average Russian was like.
Going Home (48:56)
•
Feerick Jr. was discharged at Camp Atterbury in December 1945. Describes
how civilians were more than willing to entertain troops and the heartfelt
welcome of a grateful nation at their return.
After the War (50:11)
•
Took a train from Camp Atterbury to Grand Rapids, MI. From there got a ride
from a gentleman to Sparta. Shared his thoughts about how united the country
was behind the troops. (51:08) Briefly mentions his thoughts on New York
people. (53:51)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
FeerickL
Title
A name given to the resource
Feerick, Jr, Leonard (Interview outline and video), 2009
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Feerick, Leonard
Description
An account of the resource
Leonard Feerick, Jr. served in the US Army Air Corps during World War II. He trained in Miami, Florida, and Gulfport, Mississippi, and was eventually stationed in England where he worked in ground support on an airbase. Toward the end of the war, he was transferred to the infantry, and eventually served with the Army of Occupation in Berlin.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2009-02-11
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives