51 24 1541 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e49ea5c8911db509d630dc3ee85f424b.mp4 6052d5bb59c1eb5a97c1e50b4fcfc7ba https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e567fd8b5c3457ffab3accbcd536d3f7.pdf ee97b91fe0521317ad79abddd7e263c5 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW MARTIN GLENNON Tape # 1& # 2 Born: December 26, 1949 in Hammond, Indiana Resides: Valparaiso, Indiana Interviewed by: Mike Mc Gregor GVSU Veterans History Project, and James Smither PhD GVSU Veterans History Project Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, December 19, 2012 Interviewer: To get started Martin, where and when were you born? Hammond, Indiana, 1949, on December 26th Interviewer: Did you grow up in Hammond? I grew up in, actually Whiting. Whiting, Indiana, which is right next door to Hammond, but I only stayed there five years. I didn’t really grow up there. We moved to Gary, Indiana. Interviewer: To Gary Gary, Indiana, and I was there until sixteen, and at sixteen we moved to Highland, Indiana, and that’s where I got drafted, from Highland. Interviewer: What did you parents do? My father was an insurance agent and my mother was just a homemaker. 1:03 Interviewer: Did you have any brothers or sisters? I had two sisters and no brothers, and I was the oldest. Interviewer: Where did you graduate from high school from? I graduated from Bishop Noll, Hammond Bishop Noll. My parents sent me to Bishop Noll. Interviewer: What did you do after high school? 1 �After high school I was going to college when I got drafted. I dropped a class and then they got me. Interviewer: So, how long were you in college? I was only in college for a year, less than a year, actually, and it was during the time when I came out of high school and went into college that I dropped a class, and that was 1969. Interviewer: 1969, what class did you drop? It was an English class, yeah. Interviewer: Did you at that point, when you dropped the class, realize that you would lose the student deferment? Well, I went to—some of my friends were in Vietnam and I went to the office and they told me, they informed me about that. 2:07 There was a picture of Uncle Sam, ―I Want You‖, behind them and they said, ―That guy wants you‖. If you drop this class, he may get you, and they were right. Interviewer: So, you dropped the class, and then you’re up for grabs in the draft. What did you know about Vietnam at that time? All I knew was that I had some friends over there and I got a letter from them and they told me what was going on and to be honest with you, I wanted to do my duty as a citizen of the United States. I was willing to go, I was willing to be—I didn’t go out and enlist, but I was willing, if I got drafted, not to go to Canada, but to do what I had to do. My father was in WWII and he was also a medic, so when I went in to basic training, and they had that one question toward the end, ―What do you want to do?‖ I said, ―Ok, I wouldn’t mind being a medic, my father was a medic‖. 3:13 2 �Interviewer: So, you got your draft notice and where did you go then? I went to Fort Leonard Wood. Interviewer: Before Leonard Wood, did you go to the induction center in Chicago? Oh yeah, I went to Chicago to the induction center, right. Interviewer: How long were you there? I don’t know maybe a day. They took us through really quick. If your blood pressure was too high they kicked you out, if you had flat feet they kicked you out. Fortunately, I guess, for me, I was in good health, but they sent me over there, but my whole experience, I will say, even though it was painful, it had a silver lining. Interviewer: When you were at the induction center in Chicago, were there guys trying to get out, faking symptoms or different things? 4:07 I did not see any doing that. Interviewer: So, you finished your tour in Chicago there, you took your one step forward when they swore you in, and they put you on a bus to Fort Leonard Wood? Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, yeah Interviewer: How long was that bus ride? I don’t know, maybe—I don’t know how many hours, ten hours maybe. Interviewer: Tell me about arriving at Fort Leonard Wood. What happened in that part? Fort Leonard Wood had a—there was a—I had a tall black guy, Sergeant Saunders, I still remember him. I can still see him in my sleep; actually, he was really kind of rough. He was in, he was a Vietnam veteran, and he was there to train us, so if we went there we could survive, and he was rough on us, but that’s okay. 5:03 We probably needed it, I 3 �know I needed to get in shape and everything, and so at the end of the basic training he even mentioned, ―Now, look at Martin, he’s only five feet seven and he did good on his training and stuff, you know‖, so I got sort of an accommodation from him, sort of like a—he kind of favored me a little bit and I appreciated that, but I did my best to do what he said. Interviewer: What all did you do in basic training? Well, we just did the PT and got in shape. Then we went through some classes for things that we needed to know, and physical training exercises. We did a lot running. Interviewer: Rifle training, bayonet training? 6:00 Rifle training, yeah rifle training to, M16’s, not M16’s, for some treason they had M14’s. They had a few M16’s, but not very many in 1969 and I don’t know why. Interviewer: What was the hardest part of basic training for you? It wasn’t hard. It was not hard at all because I was in track in high school and I was in fairly good shape, so I got through everything okay. Interviewer: A good runner. That’s right Interviewer: Now, when you got to Fort Leonard Wood, you went through the reception center and is that where they asked you about your MOS, and what job you would like to do, or was that later in basic? Well, it was at the end of the class, of the basic training class. 7:01 What would you like to do? What do you have a favor for? I said, ―Ok, I wouldn’t mind being a medic like my father‖. Interviewer: So, you expressed a preference for being a medic. 4 �They looked at my scores and everything and they said, ―You could be a medic‖. I preferred a hospital, but they sent me as a combat infantry. Interviewer: So, now you graduate from basic and you have orders for AIT? Yes, right, AIT at Fort Sam Houston, Texas. Interviewer: Did you have a leave before you went down to Fort Sam? Yes, we had a two week leave. Interviewer: I should backtrack, when were you drafted? I was drafted in August of 1969. Interviewer: August of 1969 Yes, August 5th Interviewer: So, then you got to fort Sam around November sometime? Yes Interviewer: How long was the AIT at Fort Sam? 8:00 At Fort Sam, I believe that it was—I mean we’re talking forty years ago, it was about, it was supposed to be about eleven or twelve weeks. They told us, ―We’re shortening you a week or two because they need you. They need medics in Vietnam, you know‖, and I said, ―Oh my goodness‖ to my friend, which actually, my friend Frank, he ended up coming to the same unit I did. Frank Gonzales, he was also a medic and he was a recon medic and I was a regular platoon medic, and I was making a joke with him, ―Man, they need medics because they’re getting wounded so fast, or what’s going on there?‖ I said, ―Well, we gotta do what we gotta do‖. Interviewer: Describe the medic training that you got in the AIT. What did that involve? 9:03 5 �They gave us all kinds of training to be able to keep the guys alive until the helicopter gets there, and then they take over from there and get them to the right place, you know, to get their healing. Interviewer: So, to do that, what did they have to train you to do? How to prevent shock? Right, how to prevent shock, mainly stop the bleeding, you have to give them morphine, make sure that you’re giving them the right—that you’re giving them morphine if you’re not supposed to, certain wounds, maybe, a head wound or something that you’re not supposed to. So, that’s what they mainly taught us, and so I learned it and when I went there I did exactly what they said. And it worked. 10:02 Interviewer: During the AIT would you have some hands on practice, experience dressing wounds? Oh yeah Interviewer: Practice in dressing wounds, how was that conducted? Well, I thought that it was conducted—I don’t have any problems with it, they showed us how to put on the Band-Aids, put on the wraps for whatever type of wound it is. They showed us videos, well, I think they were 8MM or 16MM, but they showed us the pictures and what to do and how to treat it. It was great and I enjoyed it. Interviewer: So, you had visual training and the presentation. Then did you have hands on training? Yes we did, we wrapped each other’s arms and legs and we also did shots, we gave shots to one another. First we did it in an orange and then we said, ―Okay now, the guy next to you, you get a shot from him‖. 11:07 I’ll tell you thought, a few of them broke off that 6 �needle and that was terrible. By accident the needle broke off in there and they had to send them and get that out, you know, medically. Interviewer: All during your training were they specifically gearing you for Vietnam? They were gearing us for Vietnam, very much, without a doubt. Interviewer: Was it your expectation that everybody was going to go to Vietnam then? Well, they said some would go to Germany, but probably a lot of you, I mean even the basic training DI, Sergeant Saunders, said, ―A lot of you will go to Vietnam‖. Actually, Sergeant Saunders was a little bit sad. It seemed like he was almost crying when we left because he knew what we were going to go through, and I’m sure that some of those guys didn’t make it. 12:00 Interviewer: Was Sergeant Saunders a Vietnam veteran? Yes he was Interviewer: Now, your training at Fort Sam is winding down, what orders did you get then? The orders I got were Vietnam, and I called my family, parents and stuff, and they said, ―Oh no‖, and I said, ―Don’t worry about it mom, I know Paul Walla is over there and he’s okay‖. Paul Walla was a friend of mine, he was a couple years older than me, and he went over there too, and so I said, ―Ok, I’m not worried about it, you know‖. I had a good mental attitude towards it, you know. Interviewer: So, you got your orders, you know you’re going to Vietnam, and then did you have a leave? 7 �Yes, a two week leave, my friends had a little party for me and all that stuff you know, and I ended up going to, I shouldn’t have, but my friend took me to downtown Gary where the girls were, and everything. 13:06 And then he said, ―Hey, this guy’s going to Vietnam‖, so the thing is that we went up—this is really a funny story too, we went up the two stories and my friend, fortunately, was like a body builder, he was a tall guy and he was strong. I wasn’t as big as him and he took me up there and when we got up there and we paid our money, all of a sudden we found out, ―Hey this is a scam and something is going to happen, something is going to come down on the second story‖, so then these two big black guys came up, you know, but fortunately for me Peter was bigger than Africa. 14:00 We got ripped off and I actually went down stairs. Peter said, ―Go down stairs real quick, Martin and I’ll take care of them, don’t worry about it‖, and I got hit on the back of the head with brass knuckles and started bleeding, going down stairs, but these two guys went up after him and he took care of them. He knocked them out. I don’t know what he did, but they didn’t come back down when he did. He ran back down and then he got in the car. I was dazed, but the hooker down on the street was going through my pockets, but because I was dazed and I was bleeding I didn’t do too much, but he got in the car, honked the horn, and said, ―Please, please, come on Martin hurry up, so I ran across and fortunately made it. I went into the—I had a little knot there. 15:02 Interviewer: So, even before going to Vietnam you got your first combat experience? That’s for sure, yeah 8 �Interviewer: Ok, so you had your party and then then you had to leave. Where did you go, the region area? Well, we went to, let’s see, that one base where everybody goes to in Vietnam when they come in, Cam Ranh Bay. Interviewer: Cam Ranh Bay, where did you go in the states to ship out? To ship out I went to Chicago. Interviewer: Chicago, and then you went to Fort Lewis or Oakland? I went to Oakland, yeah Interviewer: And then you shipped out of Oakland? Yeah, and the funny thing about Oakland is that when we’re coming in, those guys are coming in a line back, you know, and these guys are looking pretty disheveled. We’re going in and saying, ―How was it?‖ They’re just shaking their heads, that’s all. 16:04 Interviewer: When you saw them there, that’s your first view of, kind of the reality of the situation, and looking at those guys did you have some second thoughts? Well, you couldn’t bail then. It was impossible; you just had to go through it. Interviewer: Okay, so you flew out of the San Francisco area, and you ended up in Cam Ranh Bay. That’s right Interviewer: As you’re getting off the plane, what is your first impression or thought of Vietnam? Actually, we came in at night and couldn’t see it until a couple of days later, because we had to stay there at Cam Ranh Bay until we got our unit that we went to. My friend, Frank Gonzales, which was another medic which I was with, he was there too, and then 9 �we both were on the same floor and they said, after about three days or five days, I think it was five days, finally our call came up. 17:13 ―101st Airborne, you’re going in the 101st, Frank Gonzales, Martin Glennon‖, and a couple other guys. Interviewer: So, you arrived at about January, the end of January or February? The beginning of January Interviewer: So, now you got orders for the 101st. What was your thought? My thought was, ―Wasn’t that the ones that fought in WWII at Bastogne or something?‖ I thought, ―Man that must be a tough unit. Were they going?‖ Going up north, you know where the Marines were or something like that. I said, ―Well, okay‖. Interviewer: Did you ever question, “Why me?” Because never went to jump school or anything. 18:04 Exactly, I said, ―I didn’t even go to jump school‖, and they said, ―Don’t worry about it, nobody's jumping in Vietnam anyway‖. Interviewer: Okay, so you leave Cam Ranh Bay, and then where do you go? After I left Cam Ranh Bay we go to—we went up to Camp Eagle. From Camp Eagle, after a couple days, we went to Camp Evans. They said, ―You’re going to be with the 2nd of the 506 and you have to go through SERT School, which is jungle initiation school. In SERT School we were taught what to do, how to take care of the troops and we went out on different excursions around the base and were shown things like, what to look out for, punji sticks and all that kind of stuff. Interviewer: What was your search training as a medic any different than say somebody coming in as a grunt, or was everybody the same? 19:10 It was different 10 �Interviewer: So, they had specialized search training for medics? Yes they did, and Gerald Cafferty, he was another one who was a Silver Star winner. He went to Charlie Company; Frank Gonzales went to Echo Company. Gonzales, he’s deceased now, but I mean, in his honor I’d tell his story, he was a fine medic, a good man. Echo Company was recon, a five man [five squad] unit, and then Gerald Cafferty was Charlie Company and he actually got a silver star, and he’s not here at this. Interviewer: You guys went for SERTS together? Yes, we went to SERTS together and I had a bronze star and the guy that was a conscientious objector, Delta Company, he’s not here right now, but he went—was with Delta Company. 20:05 When we were surrounded by enemy soldiers, Delta Company, actually, was the company that came and got us, so I saw him when I was leaving. He was a conscientious objector and he took care of us. Those guys—there were fifty-one wounded and twelve killed on July 22nd, and that was my last day in the field too. I went to Charlie Company after that. Interviewer: I just want to back track to your training now. When I was in, a lot of the conscientious objectors went through the medic training. When you were going through your AIT, were there many CO’s there? Yeah, there were a few of them, but I can’t say there were many, but there were some. Interviewer: Mostly for religious reasons? Yes Interviewer: So, you go through SERTS, and now—when you got assigned to the 101st, were you assigned to a medical company and they assigned you out to the rifle companies, how did that assignment work? 21:07 11 �Headquarters Company, Headquarters Company will divvy you out where you want to go. Interviewer: So, now you were assigned to A- 2nd of 506? 2nd platoon, yes Interviewer: So, when you—okay, you finish SERTS, tell me about the process of joining your unit, joining Alpha Company. Okay, when we went to join our unit, I went to my unit and I went with Lieutenant Kelly, not the same one that had that problem in Vietnam and had eliminated that whole village. Not the same Lieutenant Kelly [William Calley], a different one. I make that distinction because a lot of people think I was in that unit. But, Lieutenant Kelly was the Lieutenant that for two or three months I had him before Lieutenant Lee, which you didn’t talk to yet. 22:05 Lieutenant Lee was a very good Lieutenant. Unfortunately Lieutenant Kelly, he was different, he was—to try to keep us alive, sometimes he would call up the Lieutenant Commander [company commander?] and say, ―Hey, how about putting us in this AO, or something, so we got in very little contact for two months, very little. So, it wasn’t until the Ripcord came in, that operation, that we really started having contact then. Interviewer: When you joined the company, what was your basic load as a medic? What equipment would you carry? I would carry this big back pack on my back. It was probably about thirty pounds at least, thirty pounds and it had the Dextran, all of the bandages, morphine, and it had all of the stuff in it. A couple big things of Dextran, blood filler, because when the guys would 12 �lose blood you would have to get the fluid back in them or they would go into shock , so that’s what they taught us, to keep them out of shock and keep them alive. Interviewer: So, your medic kit was about thirty pounds? Right Interviewer: How about your personal gear? My personal gear, also, was about fifteen to twenty pounds, so we’re talking about a double pack on my back. Interviewer: Did you carry a weapon? Yeah, I chose the M16, I could have had a 45, but I took the M16. Interviewer: How much ammunition did you carry? I just had a bandolier or two that just went around the front. 24:03 Interviewer: Okay, in joining Alpha, we talked about the basic load that you carried and everything. In joining the company, did you feel physically challenged because of the demands of humping the hills? I did not; it wasn’t too much for me because, like I was telling you, I was in track and in fairly good shape, so it wasn’t that bad. The only time that I said something to the commander, who was a Captain [Burkhart], the Captain before Captain Hawkins, and there was a commander and he wanted—I don’t understand this, but for some reason this Captain came into our—took our whole four platoons and he wanted to sweep the whole area, which was, maybe, my goodness, it must have been at least five miles and he didn’t want to stop. 25:07 Some of the guys were really getting tired so, I went up to them and I said, ―Look these guys are really, really tired. We’ve been walking for a couple miles, three miles, four miles, let’s stop and take a break‖, and he said, ―If we stop and 13 �take a break they’ll get a bead on us‖, which is understandable. I understand that, but I think even a three or a five minute break, it wouldn’t have been that bad, but he said, ―No, we have to keep going‖, so I think he was a little bit afraid that we were going to get hit, you know. He took us all, real quick, as a sweep, and usually when that happens the NVA doesn’t do anything, anyway you know, they kind of back off and say, ―We’ll just see what they’re doing‖, Interviewer: The reason I asked that is because it sounds like you’re It was more classroom related kind of lab related as opposed to the extension of the physical training from basic as dud some of the other IT’s. 26:12 When you first joined them, what kinds of calls for your talent would you get? You didn’t have much significant contact at that point. Well, there were booby traps. The one Kit Carson scout, his name—I believe his name was Tong or Tau, they got strange names, you know. Tong, Tau, something like that, and he actually was seventeen years old , he already had a couple children, at seventeen, and he was married and he walked on point for us with a transistor radio listening to Vietnamese music and alerts. 27:12 He was listening to alerts from South Vietnamese radio, he would listen to that too, and I didn’t really think that he was watching the road, the path very much and, of course, it became true, he didn’t watch the path and he did trip a booby trap and I did try to save his life. He was my first causality. I tried to save him for forty-five minutes, and he didn’t come in. He was alive when he left me, but I heard that he died on the way to Camp Evans to Charlie 326 Med. Interviewer: That was your first casualty—I guess I should back track. You were a medic with the 2nd platoon. Were you the only medic with the platoon? 14 �Every medic had a platoon. I was the medic 2nd platoon, 1st platoon was Danny Freest, and 3rd platoon was a medic named Doc Draper. 28:14 Doc Draper was from Indiana, so I had a good relationship with him. I talked with him a lot when we got together. Sometime they would just take platoons out one way, and another platoon that way, but when you got together then I would talk to him, you know. Interviewer: So, each platoon had a medic. Was there also a medic with the company's CP? Was that the senior medic? That was sort of the senior medic. He usually had a rank higher and he was in there a little while and that medic was Doc Kalestone. Interviewer: So the injury to the Kit Carson, which was fairly extensive, was that your first? All over his body and his mouth 29:02 Interviewer: What other complaints did you deal with in terms of soldiers? Okay, fortunately when you went out in the field, there wasn’t any messing around and they didn’t usually smoke marijuana. They did in the rear, but not when it’s fairly dangerous out there. They were—everybody watched everybody’s back and made sure they were alert. Interviewer: What kinds of ailments did you see? Did you see a lot of jungle rot? Did you see a lot of boils? Jungle rot, yeah, and I sent a couple guys back because they’d get a scratch one day and the next day their whole arm was all double size. One guy got a scratch in his neck and I’m not kidding you, his neck looked like a bull’s neck, and he went to the rear. 30:03 15 �Later I worked at Charlie med and I was putting in penicillin and giving penicillin shorts. You had to clean that thing out, and that was nasty. Interviewer: So, that was the most prevalent kinds of things that you dealt with? Yeah Interviewer: Did normal little cuts get septic? Yes they did if you didn’t treat them right, right away. Interviewer: Did you have a lot of APC capsules too? That was always our complaint. Well, I gave out those pink capsules every day, you know, for Dapsone, and then the big orange one once a week for malaria. Interviewer: Once a week for malaria. Yeah Interviewer: That was your responsibility as the platoon medic to do that? Yes, that was once a day we gave out the little ones, and the other one once every four days or something like that, but I made sure that I gave it out because that was my responsibility and I didn’t want anybody on my watch to get what the mosquitoes bring. 31:16 Interviewer: Did you have to keep any records of the malaria medication? No records, no records at all. Even the morphine, they knew back in the rear that I had two morphines, but later when we went down to Eagle Beach for stand down, I had two of the morphines stolen from my backpack when I went to eat. I came back and somebody had rummaged through it. They thought it was me, but it wasn’t me, it was not me. I told them I would take a lie detector test because it wasn’t me. 16 �Interviewer: Obviously morphine, we consider that a controlled substance was there any kind of accounting of it for you? Did you have to sign for it when you got some and turn it back? 32:05 I didn’t have to sign for anything. The only thing is they had there record that they gave it to me, and then if I used it, and I had to get more, I had to tell them how I used it. But, those two were stolen at the Eagle Beach stand down and there was nothing I could do about it, but they said, ―Are you sure you didn’t use it yourself?‖ I said, ―It wasn’t me‖. Interviewer: How did you discover they were gone? Was your pack just open? Yeah, my pack was open when I came back from lunch. Interviewer: So, now in Alpha Company the first two months were kind of uneventful. Were you patrolling in what we call the flatland area around Camp Evans, or were you out in the hills? No, we were in the mountains. 33:02 I remember one time when Lieutenant Kelly said, ―I’m getting a case of grenades, guys, and we’re going to have a little grenade practice‖. We were in an area where it didn’t really matter too much, so they kind of had us in a more safe area. Like I said, Lieutenant Kelly would get us in a safe area, sort of, and that was good. That was good, so he got this case of grenades and we all got some grenades, two or three grenades. And he said, ―Get on line, get on line‖. Interviewer: So, Lieutenant Kelly brought a case of grenades out and said you were going to have some practice, so what happened? Okay, then a whole bunch of guys, ten or twelve guys on line, thirteen, fifteen, had two grenades each and we threw them down the side of the hill and they got caught up in the trees. There were a few trees and somehow they got caught in the trees and the shrapnel 17 �came back on us. 34:16 And five guys got wounded, and I turned around to go into the foxhole and then I got a piece of shrapnel and it’s still there in the back of my neck, so five guys got Purple Hearts for that. That was my first Purple Heart. Interviewer: So, you got a Purple Heart for grenade practice and not enemy attack? Yeah, and I had to take shrapnel out of guys for the whole next month, little pieces of shrapnel would come up and I knew that they would come up, so I said, ―Don’t worry about it, it will come up after a couple of days or a week, or something and we’ll pull it out with tweezers‖. One guy had a little piece right in his nose and after two weeks I pulled it out. 35:07 I couldn’t really get it out and he said, ―let me work on it doc‖, and he got my mirror and he got it out finally. Interviewer: Would you use tweezers or forceps? Like tweezers or forceps type of things, yeah Interviewer: Was anybody injured seriously enough to be medevaced? No, just small little shrapnel things Interviewer: What did the Lieutenant say after that? He said nothing. He said, ―Sorry guys‖, and that’s about it, you know. I should have said something about the trees, ―Make sure you don’t get in the trees‖. Interviewer: When you would be operating with the platoon, would you basically stay with the command section of the platoon? Yes, I would 36:00 18 �Second interview section with James Smither PhD GVSU Veterans History Project Interviewer: In your initial interview session that we did back at the Ripcord reunion in Indianapolis last fall, one of the things you talked about a little bit was your time in basic training. You mentioned, in particular, that you had decided for yourself that you were kind of going to go ahead and do the best job you could and that the sergeant, the drill sergeant, very much appreciated that. What were the other guys in basic like? What attitudes did they bring with them when they came into camp? Most of the guys that came in, many of them were drafted. Some were actually NG’s, National Guard, some were, they believed wanted to go lifers, so those people that believed that they were going to stay there a while seemed to have more perspective that they wanted to be there, but many of the people that were drafted, like myself, we just said, ―Ok, we’ll go through these two years‖. 1:10 ―We’ll go through it and that will be it. Because we were drafted we’ll do the best job we can‖. Interviewer: Was that a fairly common attitude among you guys? I think so, yeah Interviewer: Were their people who were trying to push against it, or didn’t want to adjust to being in the army? Maybe a few, maybe a few, and usually they did something wrong and they would send them back or—but not very many. 19 �Interviewer: So, even at this stage in the war now, the anti-war movement has to some extent picked up and there’s more publicity, once you got drafted an awful lot of guys are still going to say, “Ok, I’m going to do my job”. There are more of them that said that than went to Canada. Interviewer: By quite a bit, yeah Yeah Interviewer: Something we tend to lose track of. 2:00 Now, you’ve gone through basic, you’ve signed up to be a medic, you’ve done Medical Corps training down at Fort Sam Houston, now you mentioned that in your medical training that you got a lot of things designed to prepare you for Vietnam, in terms of combat wounds and things like that. Did they try to teach you anything about what Vietnam its self was like, the culture, the people, or what you were going to have to do? Yes they did. They had a mock Vietnamese village even that they set up, and they showed us maybe a few things, words like mamasan, papasan, and, you know, what these things are and they actually tried to help us to be able to understand them a little bit. The only way you could really understand them is to live there with them and so, that’s the way that they did it. 3:06 Interviewer: So, they did try to prepare you as much as they could for the general environment you were going to get in? Yes Interviewer: Once you finish your training, you go home on leave, they get you to Vietnam, and you arrive in Vietnam, was it January of 1969? January, 1970 20 �Interviewer: 1970 rather, you were drafted in 1969. You arrive there in January and then you’re assigned to the 101st Airborne, and you go out---now, did you join your company and platoon, was that at Camp Evans or Camp Eagle? At Camp Evans we were sent to SERTS training in the RTS and there they told us which actual company we would be in and I was assigned to Alpha Company 2nd in 506 Infantry. Interviewer: Right, you are going to be a medic then for the 2nd platoon, so we’ve done that. Then, was the platoon at Camp Evans or was it out in the field somewhere? 4:05 The home for Alpha, 2nd of the 506 was at Camp Evans, but at that time they were in the field. Interviewer: So, did you chopper out to join them? Yes, I choppered out to join them. Interviewer: When you joined the platoon, what kind of reception did you get? Well, I got a handshake from the outgoing medic and he said, ―Once you get out, stay out, out of the jungle as much as possible‖, and I said, ―Ok, I will‖, and he said, ―Just keep your head down and do your job, and these guys will love you and they will protect you‖, and they did. Interviewer: But they didn’t do anything else in helping you get oriented? Was he taking the chopper out? He was taking the chopper out, and I was taking the chopper in. Interviewer: What kind of reception did you get from the men in the platoon? 21 �I got a good reception, some of them came up to me and introduced themselves and said, ―Doc, if I get wounded I want you to just do your best job on me‖, and I said, ―I will, I promise I will‖. 5:07 One thing that, after a while that I noticed that they liked, is every day I went to each one of them and gave them their tablet for malaria, anti- malaria, and once every four days the big orange one, which is for a different type of malaria. They actually felt confident in that, and the only day that I didn’t do it, that I didn’t give it out, they said later, was the day we got surrounded by NVA soldiers. Interviewer: There was other stuff going on. All right, so when you start going out in the field then, are they trying to coach you at all, or tell you what to do, or just staying behind the Lieutenant? Not really, they didn’t really coach me too much. I just—we knew to stay in line, you know, when we’re going down a path or something, and the point man would always check out. 6:06 We had a Kit Carson Scout, we always had a Kit Carson Scout, which was a Vietnamese. Interviewer: You mentioned in your first interview session that you had a Kit Carson Scout with you early on and he was your first casualty Yes, he was my first casualty after two weeks. He was going down—he was only seventeen and a half years old. I still remember it, he had a transistor radio in his ear and he actually tripped a booby trap. He was probably just not watching where that little wire was that he tripped. Interviewer: Now, was it normal for you to use the trails as opposed to trying to go through the jungle? Yes, it was more normal to use the trails. 22 �Interviewer: But, you were aware that’s what got booby trapped? We were aware, and the point man and the slack man were supposed to check that out, you know. But, at that time, for some reason, they actually missed it. 7:00 The point man missed it, but the Kit Carson Scout, I think, was the second there, or third there, and he tripped it, so I don’t know what happened there. Interviewer: All right, now do you remember who your original company commander was when you got there? Yes, my original company Captain was Burkhart, and then my Lieutenant was Lieutenant Kelly. Interviewer: And you talked a little bit about Kelly in the first interview session that you did. You pointed out that he was someone who kind of liked keep the platoon out of trouble if he could. Yes, that’s true, he did. Interviewer: All right, now, how long did you have those two commanders, or when did they go out? The first commander, Lieutenant Kelly, I only had for probably two months, two months, because he was short and his time was up. 8:00 But, however, through him at that one location, we did bring in some grenades, in which I did get friendly fire, and five guys got wounded. Friendly fire, through grenade practice, in which we were on top of a hill and we threw them down the side of the hill, the two or three grenades that each one had, and then some of them got stuck in the trees, and they came back on us, and five guys got friendly fire, and I was one. Interviewer: Right, and did Lieutenant Kelly last long after that? 23 �Lieutenant Kelly, he was on his last months and he didn’t last long after that, not at all. He was pretty well replaced after that. Interviewer: That was kind of a silly thing to do. Yes it was Interviewer: And then your company commander, how long did he stick around? Captain Burkhart stayed a little bit longer, maybe a month longer or so, but he was pretty much on the end also, of his time there, out in the field. 9:12 Interviewer: Did you have time to build any particular impression of him as a leader, or commander, compared to what you saw later? Captain Burkhart, I would say, was not one that would stay in the jungle very much. In actuality he was pretty aloof. Pretty aloof, and I didn’t actually see him that much. The one time I do remember is that we were going down a—he said, ―We want to go to these—we want to check out these three or four clicks‖, and he came in and he led our three or four platoon, at the time, and this was early, before April, and we went down humping through the jungle and I remember it was the longest hump we ever made in one particular time. 10:07 Usually it’s, maybe, a couple clicks, but this was like four or five clicks, four clicks at least, and everybody was getting tired and saying, ―Let’s stop‖, and he kept saying, ―No, no, we can’t stop, we have to keep going ―. Possibly because he knew that if we stopped they would get a bead on us and their mortar, their NVA mortar men would start shooting, and the VC would start shooting, so we just kept going, but we were exhausted. I remember going to him and saying, ―Sir, we need to take a break, come on, please, these guys are really complaining and these are my men, you know, in my platoon‖, and he said, ―Well, Martin, we have to keep going‖. 24 �Interviewer: Did he have you all going on a single trail or was he trying to have the company fan out into a larger area? 11:01 It was a single trail. Interviewer: The whole company just down one trail? There were three or four companies [platoons] right in a row, just right through it, yeah, fast, quickly. Interviewer: Now, did anybody trip any booby traps that time? No booby traps and we didn’t see any NVA. They probably saw us and they were probably watching, and they were waiting for us to stop, probably. Interviewer: Now, at what point did you—now at a certain point things start to change in terms of what the unit does. The Lieutenant rotates out, you get a new one in and after that Burkhart gets replaced etc., and then they start moving the platoon to different places? Yes Interviewer: We’re going to pick up your story there, at that point. Okay, when Lieutenant Widjeskog came in, he was new from West Point and everything, and some of us wondered if he was going to make it or not. 12:00 However, he actually proved to be a very good Lieutenant, a very good Lieutenant, and he helped out us guys and I would say that he was top notch, but in the beginning we weren’t sure until about a month or so later when we had more confidence in him. This was right before Ripcord started on April 1st. Then on April 1st we went in and then we knew that we could trust him. He took care of the men, but he also obeyed his commands that he got from the higher up and by that time then, our Captain was changed to Captain Hawkins. 25 �Interviewer: All right, and what did you know about Hawkins or what his background was? All I knew was that he was a Captain that actually wasn’t a Captain when he first came in, but he got a higher rank because of his skills in the jungle and they put him up as Captain. 13:04 Interviewer: What kind of style of command did he have as opposed to Burkhart? He was more commanding. He was more hands on, we saw him more and so, I would say that he had a little bit greater understanding skill of the terrain and he probably knew the forest better than Burkhart too. Interviewer: About how large do you think your company was when the ripcord Campaign started? When the Ripcord Campaign started, I think we ended up having about a hundred and twenty or twenty –five. Interviewer: So, for that period in the Vietnam era, that’s a pretty strong unit. A fairly strong company, a hundred, a hundred and twenty-five, and that’s including, actually, four platoons. By the time we did get hit, later on, we were down to seventy and only three platoons. 14:03 Interviewer: Now, talk a little bit about the Ripcord Campaign its self. Where was it relative to Camp Evans or places you had been before that and what were you doing there? Well, we were on firebase O’Reilly, and firebase O’Reilly was closer to the coast. The firebase Ripcord, they say, was a firebase earlier by the Marines a couple two or three years earlier, so it was re—and I do not know the name of it. However, I do know that it 26 �was about seven miles from Hamburger Hill, seven miles inland from Hamburger Hill. Hamburger Hill was closer to the A Shau Valley and on the edge of the A Shau Valley, but we still—here are some different things here. 15:01 I don’t know if you can see this, but Ripcord here, Hamburger Hill seven miles, right there. Interviewer: Very close to each other, sort of mountainous terrain with jungles and valleys and so forth. Mountainous terrain, jungles and valleys, yes Interviewer: Firebases tended to be built on cleared off hilltops. Yes Interviewer: So, you could mount artillery there and so forth? Yes Interviewer: Okay, What did your unit start doing then in April? In April we were on different missions and actually what we did was we were given order, of course, from higher up and they said to go this this area, go to that area, so we just did what they said. We went to different areas and I was the medic and I was to keep them alive. So, for the most part we checked out places where we thought the enemy might be and sometimes they weren’t really there. 16:00 Maybe they passed through, but maybe a few times we did see contact, but the enemy continually wanted to dominate the hills surrounding Ripcord. There were various hills, Hill 1000, Hill 805, all these hills—Hill 1000 had many, many of the enemy on it and that is one time I know we lost Wieland Norris. 27 �Interviewer: Now, as you’re say into April here and into May kind of before ripcord heats up. Were you working out of O’Reilly and doing patrols out of there initially, or were you being put on hills in the Ripcord area? Initially we went in with the April 1st, Alpha Company went in with the rest of the companies, and then we were pulled back, actually. 17:00 I do remember that when we first went on the hill one of the senior medics, from the rear, was there with the Captain and he actually went out there and there was a guy wounded out there on Ripcord, and Ripcord had no barbed wire, had nothing, and they just got onto it and he went out and he heroically went out and took care of that guy. I was very impressed on his heroism as a medic and I liked the guy, but later on he had a lot of emotional problems and stuff and he was not—he went back to the rear and actually, before the end of my time there, he actually shot himself, but he lived by the grace of God the bullet did not kill him, but he lost an eye, 18:06 One of the Captains, Burnside I think, Burnside or something, Captain, Dr. Burnside, a Charlie med saved his life. Interviewer: Now, do you remember the first real firefight you got caught up in? One of the first firefights that I did get caught up in was the one with Whalen Norris. We were around there and Norris was with another platoon and because we stood down, the platoon stood down, that we actually—the battalion commander said, Lieutenant Colonel Lucas, "We need somebody to walk point. Is there anybody in the company that will walk point?‖ 19:01 Wieland Norris did raise his hand and his slack man was another guy from his other platoon and they started going up the hill and, of course, there was an actual ambush up there and he was shot. There wasn’t anything that anybody could do, he needed an immediate operation and I was the medic, supposed to be the medic, but 28 �because he came from the other platoon, the other platoon medic said, ―I will take care of him, he was my man‖, and the other medic went over there. Interviewer: Now, off camera you had filled in a little bit of context to the story. How was it that the battalion commander had to go and ask for somebody to go and take the lead? Where was he operating? Where were they going? The battalion commander, he had a—he was in a Loach going back and forth watching and looking at the hill and he was a pilot and he did that every once and a while. 20:03 He would do things like that, drop off grenades for us and things like that. He was very hand on, a hand on--Lieutenant Colonel Lucas was very hands on, he had his pilot’s license and he could go out there and search things out. Interviewer: Where was he sending these men and what kind of problem was there with that? He was sending them up to the top of the hill, which I believe was Hill 1000 and there was a lot of cover so he couldn’t see anything, you know, but he wanted to send the men up there and so then that’s what happened. The squad went up there and they got wounded. The second guy got wounded in his chest, another guy got wounded just through his chin and I still remember him just showing me his little wound on his chin because the bullet just grazed his chin, the third guy. 21:02 But, the second guy got it on the side, but it wasn’t life threatening, but Wieland Norris’s was life threatening and within five minutes he was gone. Interviewer: Was your platoon following them in, or were you back around Ripcord? 29 �My platoon was set back—I remember we were behind a log and somewhere just waiting to go up. Had they went to the very top, we had of went up there right behind them all. Interviewer: Did people expect that there was going to be an ambush set up, up there? Yes, many of the guys that had been out there six months or more they did. They thought for sure, without a shadow of a doubt, and that’s why they stood down and they didn’t go. Interviewer: So, basically they were—normally, I guess, when you talk about a stand down, it’s when a unit is brought back from the field and are resting, but now did Colonel Lucas try to send them right back out again? 22:02 That, or was it that he was just looking around for volunteers at that point? He was looking for volunteers when the first group wouldn’t go. Interviewer: Okay, but you have a group that’s saying, “We don’t want to go”. Yes, because we know that there’s an ambush out there. That’s what was happening. Interviewer: At this point you do have ordinary soldiers, at some point, kind of challenging the orders they are getting from higher levels on the ground because they can get them killed? Yes Interviewer: It was a little bit different situation than what you would have had a few years earlier in Vietnam, and they were aware of some change going on? Yes, but there were still some men in the company that did go up, so even though these guys---sometimes when a soldier gets short time and they know they only have a month left, they don’t want to go and do things like this, and some of these guys were like that. 23:00 30 �Interviewer: Then, basically Ripcord goes on and it’s May, June, July. What is your—before things get really ugly in July, what kind of a pattern was there to your activity or what things stand out in your mind about what went on in that middle phase? Well, I remember one time, I think it was Hill 805 that we were security for one of the other companies, I believe Delta Company, and they were going up and they were continually getting hit. We were on the other side, another hill over watching it and the enemy didn’t know we were there. So we were the ones that helped them out a lot that night, in that ambush, you know. And the enemy was shocked that we were over there, shooting at the enemy, so they backed down. I remember that and that was probably in May. In June is when, I believer, when Whalen Norris was killed, in June. 24:07 Interviewer: Now, in that period there, in May and June, what kinds of loses was your platoon or your company taking? My particular platoon was not taking as many as the other companies. Charlie company took a whole lot, Bravo Company, they had their time, Alpha Company, Delta had their time. Alpha company was the last one to have a major contact, which was July 22nd, the day before they pulled out. We were surrounded by four hundred NVA soldiers. Interviewer: While you were out there were you spending a lot of nights just out in the field, or were you normally on a hilltop or in the firebase? Where were would you be? 25:00 We would be—we would find a night defensive position and then the battalion commander and the CP, I mean the actual Captain, would be conversing with the battalion commander which way he wanted us to go and he would say it’s okay to go this 31 �way and so, the Captain would say, ―Okay, this company go forth, you go first‖, this platoon, I mean, go first and, that’s the way it was. Then I believe it was on July 20th or 21st, is when we found the commo wire, and then the commo wire was linked into, from the transistor radio and we had an interpreter, a Vietnamese interpreter, that was, I believe, his last name was Hoang and he actually had a lot of intel that he actually gave to the battalion commander, which caused him, the battalion commander, feel, I believe, that it’s time to back off. 26:08 We knew it was time to back off after, I believe, the Chinook took the big round into the motor and it knocked it down on top of the ammo dump on the 18th of July, and they knew, and they think---and they couldn’t get ammo back in there, so they were probably thinking that it’s time to leave. When they heard the communications they tapped into it, and the enemy did send somebody back to check the commo wire because they heard the scratching noise and one of the men in our company, and was in my platoon even, it was either Sparkie Jornell or it was Schultz. They had gotten the one guy, the one NVA, and then the other one was sent with a blood trail, which they tried to follow, but they never found the guy. 27:06 The NVA, he probably made it back and everything was fine, but the first one was killed, the NVA, and I remember that. Interviewer: The North Vietnamese are running communication wire through the jungle between the different units, all right, and so you got an unusual piece of intelligence there now, did anything happen when you were out at night camped out in the jungle someplace around Ripcord? Did the enemy try to probe your positions? 32 �The NVA was probing our positions, especially when the commo wire was in, and during this time I was really praying a lot. 28:07 My friend, Bill Molvey, he prayed and read the bible out there, and I started reading the bible and I read it all through. I made a commitment to god, to Jesus, you know, and so I believe that helped me through this because it helped me focus on-- and gave me some strength. That night, before the big battle, they were probing our positions and I actually said to the sergeant that got shot through the jaw the next day, I said to him, ―I smell the enemy out there‖, and he said, ―Doc, you’ve been out here too long, you’ve been out here too long‖, and I said, ―No, I really do small them‖, because they had a specific small. They smelled like rice and also, chicken and they had shrimp and they mixed things in and you could smell it. 29:09 He didn’t believe me, but the next day we did get surrounded by NVA soldiers and I knew they were probing us that night and I was on night guard for an hour and a half or so, or two hours and I knew that they were, but they didn’t come. Interviewer: Did you ever actually get attacked during the night? We, particularly, did not get attacked during that night. Interviewer: Or earlier nights? A couple of the platoons got a few NVA coming in, but not really, not really. We had the special mines out, which were with the thousand BB’s. Interviewer: Were they claymores? Claymore mines and the enemy, they were very, very afraid of that because they definitely put some men wounded and killed on their side, that they didn’t want to get near those things. 30:06 We put them out all around our night defense positions. 33 �Interviewer: Now, were these set up so that the American soldiers would trigger them? Yes, they would just click it and it would go off. Interviewer: Did you ever have anybody kind of get jumpy and blow off a claymore when he didn’t need to? I think that happened once or twice, yeah. Interviewer: What was the experience level of the soldiers in your platoon, do you think? Many of them were draftees, some of them were like Lieutenant Lee, he was a West Pointer. A few of them were sergeants, they came in E3’s, and there were a few ―shake and bakes‖ too. ―Shake and bake’, they put them through real quick and brought them over to Vietnam real quick and actually, I think that Sergeant Brown was a ―shake and bake‖, the one that said that to me. 31:07 Interviewer: Now, were these mostly men who hadn’t seen combat yet? Yes, they were mostly men who didn’t see combat, that is correct. Interviewer: Now, as you’re kind of—did you get to spend much of ant time, actually, on the base at Ripcord itself? We spent about two or three weeks on Ripcord, yes we did. Interviewer: And what were you doing while you were up there? We were just being night defensive, and we would be around the bunker and around the circle, and just kind of keeping it safe for the night. Checking the jungle for movement and things like that. Interviewer: Would you send patrols out during the day or listening posts? 34 �Sometimes they would, they would, yes. At that time, though, they had a new thing where they would actually put a sensor out and they started putting sensors out all the way around them, so they knew when somebody was walking near it or something like that. 32:08 And then they would give the intel to the chief commander and things like that. Interviewer: Now, while you were on Ripcord, were you taking much incoming fire? The incoming fire at Ripcord while we were there was minimal to starting July 1st, 1970 to July 23rd. Every night, every day, they got fire. 51 Cal fire, they got AK-47 fire, they got mortars every single day, and it was constant for twenty three days, and the twenty third day is when they left. Interviewer: Now, did you prefer to be down there in the jungle or up on the base? After July 1st I would rather have been in the jungle to be honest with you. The jungle had more cover and they just didn’t—if we moved around they didn’t—usually it was a little safer, actually. 33:08 But the firebase was being watched and they were going to overrun it, you know, it was just a matter of time. Interviewer: Did you have that feeling at the time that things were getting worse, or were you just focusing on your job and staying alive? I was focusing on my job as a medic, mainly, and trying to stay alive of course, that’s what everybody tried to do. On the 22nd, when we got attacked, that’s when fifty one were wounded and twelve were killed in a five hour battle. Interviewer: Before that did you have a sense that the battle was not going the right way, or were you not thinking about it? 35 �Well, we were thinking when the Chinook fell on the ammo dump that was it, you know. It was probably not going the right way. Fortunately the enemy didn’t know that. 34:03 They didn’t realize that it fell on the ammo dump, and we found this out from General Harrison, who went to talk to the opposing general, and they said that they did not know that it fell on the ammo dump. Had they known, he told General Harrison, they probably would have attacked that night, but they did not know that it was the ammo dump. They thought that particular Chinook, it was just an explosion from the Chinook and that the Chinook might have been bringing in something that they didn’t realize it was on the ammo dump. Interviewer: I suppose they were used to having the American having mountains of ammo anyway, so what’s one big explosion and that sort of thing. Right, right Interviewer: They didn’t actually attack the perimeter of the base either. They didn’t try to get up into it. No, there was—a few times they tried to get up, but they never got very far, never got very far in the wire. They never got through the wires. 35:01 Interviewer: The defensive position its self, was well laid out. Right Interviewer: Were there other incidents, or things, that kind of stand out in your memory before your big attack? Things that happened that set that up? Well, I remember one thing that stood out. I remember when we left O’Reilly and we were going to—toward the place where we found the combo wire. One night—this is how it was, we knew that we were going to get attacked. Everybody knew that we were 36 �going to get attacked and honestly, I even stopped eating a little bit. I ate one meal a day. I remember it was almost like I was fasting, and I was hyper vigilant, and I kid you not, this one day, between the time we left O’Reilly and we were at the commo spot, or it was the day after the commo spot, that I heard a voice say, ―Your company is going to be wiped out‖. 36:13 I don’t know if it was an imaginary voice or the devil telling me that, or whatever, you know, but I heard it and I still remember it and it’s been forty years, and I still remember that. So, I said, ―Okay‖, and I even turned around because I thought somebody was saying something, but it was a voice, you know, so everybody knew that we were going to get it. And that one, I remember this one guy, he—we were setting the night defensive position and he actually shot himself in the foot to get out of the jungle. We had to pull in a medevac to get him. It was about three days before we got surrounded, so the enemy knew we were there when that medivac came in. 37:03 They knew we were out there in the jungle someplace. They were watching us, but we moved around every night. Interviewer: Tell me about, kind of, the climax of the battle, what led to that and what happened that day. Well, I remember the morning of July 22nd and that we were supposed to leave at eleven AM or so, eleven in the morning, ten thirty or eleven, and go to the one hill that Captain Hawkins felt was the best extraction point for us to get out. So, what happened was the Lieutenant Commander [Lieutenant Colonel] on Ripcord, which was Lucas, said, ―No, we want you to go a different direction‖, and I remember, I don’t know if it was— somebody was talking and saying, ―Well, the commander is trying to get us to go a different direction and Captain Hawkins wants us to go to a night defensive position, the 37 �place going a different way from the night defensive position‖. 38:11 There was some bickering going on the morning we were supposed to leave. Early in the morning Captain Hawkins sent a squad out to go and check out that night defensive position. Nothing happened, so they thought it was going to be secure and good, but actually the enemy probably saw them and it probably would have been even worse than what happened. When he got back and Captain, I mean Lieutenant Lucas, no Lieutenant Colonel Lucas told him to go a different direction, he finally said, ―Yes, we’ll go the other direction‖, and so, my company, my platoon, 2nd platoon, was chosen to go first as point. Always the point element gets hit the worst. 39:00 So, we were sort of walking a different direction and actually, we started walking out of it and when we actually saw an NVA soldier. We hunkered down and he told the Lieutenant and the Lieutenant said, ―Well, why didn’t you shoot?‖ I don’t know who that was that did that, but probably Lieutenant Widjeskog will be able to tell you more information about that one. Interviewer: Basically it was probably a new guy, or , who hadn’t had that happen before. Yeah, and that morning I remember, of July 22nd, right before we went out that other direction, I know that I made—I opened up my Gideon New Testament and I wrote my name down and I said, ―I’ll do whatever you want God. I’ll do whatever you want. I just want to get out of here alive. Get me out of here, Lord‖, so it was kind like a deal I did with God and I accepted Jesus’s plan for my life. 40:04 I became a Chaplain later and that’s what I’m doing now, I’m a Chaplain for veterans. But, actually after the battle started, the other two platoons were swamped with the enemy and they were just creeping up on us and we didn’t know it. 38 �Interviewer: So, they sort of let your platoon pass through the ambush and so they went after the rest of the company? Yes, they went through and they actually got between my platoon, the 2nd platoon and the two other platoons and they were working on those other two platoons, but my platoon was up a little knoll, a little bit higher ground, so every time they tried to come up on us, we just threw a grenade down the side when we heard anything. 41:00 I remember that one time during that five hours where they tried to swamp my platoon over there and Lieutenant Lee said, ―Everybody get in a circle‖, and everybody got in a circle and then, ―Get your M16 in front of you. If you see anything or hear anything then we’re going to shoot‖, and then we all got in a circle and then the sappers, the sappers came up. They had these satchel charges, and we had, I don’t know, ten satchel charges thrown in our group, so it was pandemonium, but when that happened everybody opened up in a circle around us. It was like a protective shield and they all backed out. No NVA got up, no sappers got in our little circle. 42:00 They didn’t get-- but I remember one was fighting with Sparky Jornell, who was killed, Sparky Jornell was killed by shrapnel or a bullet during that time, and he was behind a big stump and every time he’d come out Sparky would shoot and then he’d go back behind the stump and the other guy would come out and it was going back and forth, back and forth for a half an hour or forty minutes. So, I actually lost it a little in the beginning of the battle and I kind of like started saying ―Jesus help me, Jesus help, help‖, and Tom Schultz was on the corner, maybe about twenty feet away from me, or twenty-five, and he came back to me and he said, ―Martin, I think we’re going to make it, we’re going to make it, I think we’re going to make it through this, don’t worry about it, you’ll be okay, we’ll be okay‖. 43:04 I said, ―Okay Tom, 39 �you’re right‖, and I calmed down. Then he went to the edge of the perimeter and we never saw him until the next day and he was shot and killed later on, Tom Schultz, I’ll never forget that, he calmed me down and it was probably one of the last things he did before he died, and God bless him. He helped me to refocus, you know, ―We’re going to make it, yes‖, and then my other friend, who was a radio man was Bill Molvey, Bill Molvey’s from Pennsylvania, I just met him at the forty year reunion just now, and he actually—I’ve been trying to find him for forty years and I finally found him, and he came to the reunion and he remembered that. 44:01 His radio went out, they were trying to bring in jets with 250 pound bombs, and everybody’s radio went out in my platoon, so we couldn’t do it. We couldn’t even communicate with the other two platoons for at least forty minutes, forty-five, or fifty minutes. But, they were trying to work with these radios and one of them was shot up and his wasn’t working well and finally he got it working, and I’ll tell you we were praying hard. He was right next to me, and I still get calls from him every week, and I talked to him yesterday, you know, Bill Molvey, he’s really a good guy, and he was the other radio man. The Lieutenant Widjeskog had one and Bill Molvey was one for I believe it was Brown, Sergeant Brown, he had one, and maybe there were two or three in it, but one of the radios was down and the others got messed up. 45:02 Interviewer: Now, did you ever find out what happened to the sapper that Sparky was having the shootout with? I believe that he was killed and they pulled back his body because we never found his body. To be honest with you, the only bodies that we found the next day, of the NVA, were those that were so close that the NVA night people that were supposed to pull back 40 �the bodies, they couldn’t go that close because they were in our wire, but that one time I wasn’t there at the other two platoons, some of the other men will probably tell you this, at one time the enemy came so close on the other two platoons, that they came up and were starting to shoot our guys, and one guy was on top of another guy, and the guy, I remember, had a sapper throw a satchel charge and it blinded him and the other two platoons, what I understand. 46:03 And he actually had a body on top of him. The body on top of him was the guy that was dead and then the NVA shot that body. But, he was underneath, but he kicked him, he was underneath and he kicked him, but he didn’t move, and they probably thought, ―Okay, that guy's dead too‖, but he wasn’t, he was alive, but he was blinded by a satchel charge and he made it through that and he told—I remember him telling me that and it was really something. Interviewer: Now, what ended the fight? You said it was going on something like five hours, did you get to call in any air strikes, or what was it that broke it? What broke it, I believe, was the F4’s started dropping 250 pound bombs, and the F4 actually came in and that’s when the radio started working, and we started saying, ―Okay, pop smoke‖, and we popped the smoke to show them our position. 47:05 We said, ―Get in as close as possible‖, and Captain Hawkins was saying the same thing. His was working and ours finally started working, our radio started working and then they popped the smoke and then they brought in 250 pound bombs that actually shattered—I remember this one guy, I forgot his name right now, but I know what his face looks like and everything, but he actually came to me and he said, ―Doc, I’m bleeding‖, and it was on his ear because his eardrum was perforated because of the 250 pound bombs. But, they taught us always to open our mouth when we knew that bombs were coming. 41 �Everybody said, ―Open your mouth‖, it’s some kind of thing, ―open your mouth because they’re going to drop 250 pound bombs‖, so I did that myself and I didn’t have that, but this other guy on the edge of the perimeter did have that and came down to see me. 48:01 I remember this guy named Swain, he was somewhat wounded and he was on the edge of the perimeter, and this other guy, and I can’t remember his name, but he’s the one, the other guy with the bleeding in the ear. Interviewer: Now, were you treating them during the firefight or did you--? As much as I could, I was treating men during the firefight, and then Captain, I mean Sergeant Brown stood up and he got a bullet through his cheek. It went in one side and out the other and took out some teeth, but it missed his jugular vein and he was very fortunate. I gave him dextran and he wrote me a full letter on the 28th of July that he thanked me for being like an angel that helped him, so he made it through that. Interviewer: Now, did you get hit yourself in that action? Yeah, when they threw in the satchel charges I got a piece of shrapnel that just grazed my temple. 49:05 It hit me and it’s still there today, and it never—nothing ever happened, but I do set off at the airports, these things. ―You got something on you don’t you, you got something on you?‖ I said, ―No, it’s shrapnel‖. Interviewer: So, the enemy eventually pulls back after the bombing strike. Did you then go down and try to help the other platoons or what did you do then? Yes, after that we were all hurting and we went back to rejoin the other two platoons, and the first time we tried there was one NVA in between us. They got in between us and we couldn’t get back two hours late before that, three hours before that. They wanted to separate us. 50:03 So, what happened was, the one guy was between us and we had 42 �tried and then we tried a half hour later and he was gone, he pulled back. All the NVA pulled back after the five hours. So, we were able to get back with them and I was walking around putting patches on everybody. I still remember this one guy named Rick, he had been shot through the lung, and I had this Vaseline thing that they taught us in San Antonio, ―Put the Vaseline thing on, hold it and don’t let the air come through on both sides‖, so that’s what I did and then I had to have another trooper—I said, ―Look, you hold this because I have to go and take care of the other men‖, and he lived, that guy, and I remember it. Interviewer: How did they get you out of there? Well, the next morning we were—if they would have attacked us that night it would have been terrible because everybody—51:06 But I think the enemy, the NVA, were also very, very wounded themselves and many killed. So, they backed off totally and they gave us a night. We gave them a night and they gave us a night. I remember during the night they were constantly shooting the flares over us to show light and one of the, one guy that wasn’t wounded, ironically, when they shoot these flares, this little metal thing comes down and it hit this guy on the skull and he said, ―I can’t believe this, I was wounded by one of these things and I wasn’t wounded during the battle‖. So, he got hit and got a little wound because of this thing that fell on top of him. 52:00 Interviewer: Do you have a sense of how many men were medevaced out while you were still there? Nobody was medevaced until the next morning. We all had to stay and one man was so wounded that he was bleeding in his abdomen and all I could do was tell him, ―Look, we just got to keep pressure on it, and in the morning we’ll get you out‖. Nobody could be 43 �moved out that night, nobody, the night of July 22nd to the 23rd. But, the next morning, the 23rd, Delta Company walked in towards us and the Captain from the Delta Company, and I forgot his name right now [Captain Rollison], he was very, very, a good friend of the Captain Hawkins, and since then has passed away of liver problems and he was a really good Captain, Delta Company Captain, and he came in with a sawed off shotgun, I still remember that. 53:00 He came in with his men with a sawed off shotgun. About two platoons came with him, or something like that, maybe one and a half platoons, but these guys walked in from probably a mile away and they said they couldn’t find us, so we had to take our M16’s and shoot. One guy took a M16 and shot. The Captain said, ―Shoot the M16 one time‖, and then they heard us, from the hearing of it they came to us and they cut a LZ. They had—they were able to cut a LZ, they had those lumberjack things and they cut the LZ and got it ready for---and there was twenty or twenty one Hueys that came in and got us all out. Interviewer: How many men in the company were still able to function and stay in the field at that point? Everybody was—fifty one were wounded and twelve killed and the next day another guy died of wounds, I remember. 54:03 the guy that had the wound on the intestines, he died, I remember. Actually the—some of the platoons that was wounded, some of them weren’t wounded bad enough to be sent back, so they stayed in the base camp and got fixed up for a month or so, or a month and a half and then some of them went out again. Interviewer: What happened to you at the end of this? At that end I was in the jungle six and a half months. The medics were told, ―You’re going to be in the jungle six months and then we’re going to pull you back and you’ll be 44 �in the base camp‖. I said, ―I’ve been in there six and a half months‖, I told the guy at the medical thing and he said, ―Martin, we don’t have any replacements, you might have to go back‖, and I said, ―I can’t go back, I can’t go back anymore, this is too much for me to handle‖, and they said, ―Okay Martin, we’ll see what we can do‖. 55:05 So, actually I got transferred to Charlie Company, 2nd of 326 Charlie, which actually was on Camp Evans and then I worked at the base camp in a little dispensary hospital where they brought guys in that had cellulitis and stuff, and took care of them, and had minor wounds. Some of those guys that were wounded went on that camp 326 hospital and some of them went to Da Nang too. Interviewer: So, did you stay there then for the rest of your tour? I stayed there for the rest of my tour until December of 1970. So, I was out of the jungle the end of July. Interviewer: What was daily life like now that you’re back at Camp Evans with sort of a regular job? At Camp Evans my rotation was, I had—I was like an orderly at the hospital, at the camp hospital at Camp Evans 326. 56:09 And Charlie 326 and that’s where the medevacs came in at. Anything that was minor stayed at Camp Evans and anything more major went to someplace else. We had at least thirty beds and during that time they were almost always filled or at least half filled or three quarters filled, and that’s what my job was every day. Interviewer: Would you meet the medevacs where they landed or did you stay back at the ward? 45 �No, we stayed back at the ward. There were other medics that would take care of that portion and bring them over to the ward if they went to us, otherwise they took them on to Da Nang, or even to Japan. Japan had a big hospital, or if they had to be shipped out, to Japan or to Germany or the U.S. 57:03 Interviewer: All right, did you get to work a regular schedule now? Yes, I started working a regular schedule just like an orderly, or like a nurse. We did IV’s and all that, which the nurses would do in the states, we did. We filled the—we took the cellulitis, we gave them Penicillin for it, and we had to clean those things out every day and put in this special medication in those holes. I remember one guy came in, he cellulitis, and honestly, his neck, the next day, was like a bulls neck. That’s how big it got and we had to give him double Penicillin. We had to take that all out and clean that out and put this special gauze in there and sometimes it got in there and we had to clean it twice a day and it was a dirty job, but this was our job and we did it. Interviewer: What did you do when you were off duty? 58:04 Before I go there I want to make a tribute to one soldier and his name is Eric DeVille, Eric DeVille was from the other company. He was one of the other company men and 2nd of the 501st, or whatever. He came in and I found out that he was from my home town in Indiana, and I didn’t even know him before that and I didn’t know he was in the 101st Airborne, and in actuality he was a grunt, he was a point man, God bless him, and he went through a heck of a rough time. He came in for cellulitis and then later when we got back in the states we got back together, had a meal, and talked and stuff. But he had an addiction problem and unfortunately and he actually robbed the Highland Bank. 59:02 The Highland Bank and they brought—he said, ―Put in money‖, and he had a big 46 �sack with fifty thousand dollars, and when he went out the police were all around and they said, ―Drop it, Eric DeVille, drop it, we know you had some problems, but you can’t do this‖, and unfortunately he picked his pistol up like that and they shot him through the heart and he died. God bless him, he had PTSD and he could have been helped had the VA at that time known how to help people, but they’re a lot better at it now and they’re doing a wonderful job now, but at that time—I, myself, had PTSD. Interviewer: Now, in the base camp area were there problems with people using drugs or other issues that you were aware of? 60:00 Okay, I’m going to tell you a story. When I was in the base camp, I was on the ward, and one of the men that was in the platoon, or he was in another platoon, came to me and said, ―Hey Doc, I got something for you‖, and I said, ―What?‖ I said, ―What are you talking about?‖ He said, ―I got this special Marijuana, it’s laced with Opium, and you’ll never have anything like it‖, and he said, ―Try it Doc, here‖, and I did try it and that’s the first time I ever tried anything like that, and to be honest with you, that night I did not sleep well. I woke up in a sweat. I was sweating from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet and I had a dream that the devil came through the back of the hooch and was wanting to knock me out, and that was the last day I ever took anything like that. 1:02 I just threw it away and said--I ran to the ward and I said, ―Please watch me over this night‖, so I slept on the ward that night. Then in the morning I had a headache and I never did anything like that again, that was terrible. Interviewer: Was there a lot of it kind of going on around? Yeah, it was going on around base camp a little bit, but actually there was a lot of drinking to because we had a little—we started like a little club and it was a dugout down 47 �under there. It was like hooch that was underneath the ground, so it was our special place we would go to and we had people who would shift work, working down there at night. 2:03 Interviewer: When you’re out there in the field with a line company like that—now when you’re out with a line company like that, you mentioned briefly in the first interview, if you’re out there nobody’s going to light up or something like that. Right, on the front line, because it’s detrimental to the security of the company and of the platoons. Sergeants, you know, all of the guys backed off, you know, when we really were in an area that was very, very volatile, they all backed off. There’s no doubt about it, I never saw any of them do anything, and they would always say, ―You got to be alert‖. Interviewer: Now, when you’re living on the base camp, would you have Vietnamese civilians there with you or what were they doing? On the base camp there were Vietnamese civilians like you saw in that picture. 3:02 The would come and they would clean and they would do thing, and the only thing is, that some of the time those were VC too, so you didn’t know, you really didn’t know for sure. Interviewer: Did you have a curfew system or something on the base? Yeah, a curfew system, they left at a certain time. Six or seven o’clock was there time to go and they went back to their village and came back the next day. They had their own security, little badge or whatever, the next day. Interviewer: Did men from the base go into the village too or did they stay? 48 �Men have told me they went into the villages, and I went to the village a couple times with the battalion nurse and four or five other people to do what they call the Vietnamization. They said, ―Okay look‖, they would have an interpreter say, ―We’re here to help. Does anybody have some physical problems? We have Penicillin, we have different stuff that can help you‖, so they would get village people coming all the time to have us look at this, and look at that. 4:13 So, we would bandage it up and we would give them a shot, or whatever they needed. We did that as Vietnamization, and I did that between—when I came out of the Ripcord situation to when I left, for those three months. It was for about three or three and a half months. I got a thirty day drop, so I left thirty days short. Interviewer: As far as you can tell, what kind of attitude did the Vietnamese people have toward you or how did they act? The Vietnamese people were—I would say that they were a little bit—it was to us, it’s like you can’t trust them. 5:07 They could be NVA, they could be Viet Cong at night, we don’t know, so to be honest with you, but I remember there were some girls, Vietnamese girls that came in, and they sold things in the camp. Now, those girls—all the guys were in line to get to their village, to get to their house, you know. I know I struck out every time I tried. I wasn’t no Don Juan or I wasn’t John Wayne or nothing. Interviewer: It was probably healthier that way. Yeah, right, exactly so, but I remember my friend, which my friend Jake Jacobs, he’s a Marine from Hammond. Jake Jacobs, he told me a story. He was going into a village and he was actually having a relationship with this one girl, a Vietnamese girl. 6:05 And he told me that he was in bed with her, or something and then all of a sudden the 49 �NVA or the VC in the village came in and started knocking on the door and said, ―You have someone there, or something?‖ So, he had to get in the closet and put stuff on him and hope that this guy didn’t find him, or that he might have been shot, you know, and the girl covered for him, fortunately, but he said he still remembers it and he was scared to death that he was going to be shot, or something, and so he told me that story. Interviewer: The time comes and you get to leave. What’s the physical process for getting you back to the U.S.? Well, they would tell us, ―Okay, you guys are going to ship out this certain day‖, so we would go to the air, you know where the planes come in on Camp Evans, or the helicopters take us. 7:14 Then we went from there to Da Nang, and in Da Nang they had a big jet that took us, all one hundred or so, a hundred, a hundred and fifty or so, that day. Interviewer: Now was this a chartered commercial jet or was this a military one? I think it was a military, yeah, it was military one. Interviewer: There were no stewardesses? There might have been a few, but we all were holding our breath until we got off, and then everybody started saying, ―Yeah, you’re out‖, you know, and yeah, when we got up in the air, everybody cheered, everybody cheered. Interviewer: When you were at the airport waiting to get out, did you see anybody coming in? Were there new guys coming in when you were leaving, or did you not see them? 8:04 Yeah, well over there, there were new guys coming in, not in Da Nang, we didn’t see it, but when we got into the United States we saw them. We were coming off, going out and 50 �they were coming in, and they were all saying, ―How was it, how was it?‖ Some of were looking down like that. ―Don’t worry about it‖, or ―Watch your back‖. Interviewer: Where did you land in the states? Oakland, Oakland, California Interviewer: Did you land on the airbase, or did you come right to the airport? Right to the airport, right to the airport Interviewer: Now, when you got there did you see any war protestors or things like that there? In 1970 there were not as many, but when I was going out then there were some there. 9:02 Interviewer: So there were actually more, and you saw more in 1969 than in 1970? Late 1969 and early 1970 Interviewer: By the time you were coming back they weren’t sending as many over. They weren’t sending as many over, they stopped. Interviewer: At this point did you still have time left in the service, or were you just about done? At this time I had six and a half months left. When I got back I got my orders to go to Fort Knox in two weeks after that. So, what I actually did was I went to Fort Knox after that and for six and a half months I was at Fort Knox. Interviewer: What did you do at Fort Knox? At Fort Knox I worked in a ward. I was like an orderly, taking people's name down, and then giving them shots for whatever they needed. Giving some Penicillin and things like that. 10:01 51 �Interviewer: Did you have any sense of what the mood or morale was like at Fort Knox while you were there? At Fort Knox it was great, it was just like a regular job, to be honest with you. After we were done with our shift we had free time, and at that time I got a car, so I drove there, to fort Knox, and back, so it was pretty good. I actually got a car when I was on my leave, because I had saved up money and they put it in the bank for me and everything. Interviewer: Now, who were you—were you just dealing with, sort of, the hospital personnel on your own little part of the base, or did you work with just a lot of recruits in training they were going through during that time? At Fort Knox they didn’t do recruiting or training. The only thing they did at Fort Knox was train people for tank warfare, so there was an artillery unit there and there might have been some other things. Now, recently I heard they are training in Fort Knox, even for basic training, which I didn’t know. 11:04 Interviewer: Fort Knox was a big basic training camp all through the Vietnam era, it was also a very big base with different parts to the base. Yeah, I was on a different part of the base and I didn’t have any basic training people, none. All these guys, most of them were the tank people and mechanized unit people. Interviewer: Were there a lot of guys there who had already been to Vietnam? There were a lot of guys that were Vietnam people, yeah. I remember the first time I saw real conflict between black and white was on Fort Knox. At Fort Knox there were black guys, black soldiers there and white soldiers and some of these guys were from the Deep South and they did not get along. 12:00 It was like oil and water, and I remember this one guy , this one black guy was smarting off to the one white guy from the south and the 52 �white guy from the south took, you know, one of these things, these scrub thing with things this long and he just hit the guy. The other guy started hitting him back and they both had bad wounds and they both were bleeding, and it was just terrible. We had to go in and I think the campus police came, you know. Interviewer: The MP’s come in. Yeah, they took care of it, but I remember also, that was the first time I realized, ―I really got to watch my wallet‖, because I had, at Fort Knox, I took a shower and in the middle of my shower I said, ―Did I shut my shower door, shut my locker? Did I lock it?‖ 13:05 I said, ―No‖, so I ran back there in my skivvies, and sure enough my wallet was missing. There was this one black guy, short, kind of thin, black guy, walking down the stairs and I went up to him and I said, ―You took my wallet didn’t you?‖ I said, ―You took my wallet, I know you did‖, and he said, ―I don’t know what you’re talking about. I don’t know what you’re talking about‖, but I said, ―I really don’t care about the money. All I care about is my driver’s license and my important other things in there‖, because I only had two hundred dollars, or something, in there. So, a couple days later, in the shower, somebody told me, I was in the barracks, and they said, ―Martin, when we cleaned the bathroom, behind the show, I mean on the window sill, was your wallet‖, and it had my driver’s license and my important stuff, but my money was gone. 14:14 I knew it was that guy, I knew it was him, but I couldn’t prove it. Interviewer: Did anybody, at any point, try to get you to re-up, to stay in? At the end of my tour at Fort Knox, two E6 sergeants, one of them working there and there was an E8 guy, he was in there like eighteen or sixteen years, he said to me, ―Martin, do you know what, it’s really not that bad staying in. I’ve been in here for‖, I 53 �don’t know, ten or fifteen years, I can’t remember exactly what he said, ―It’s not that bad if you’re not on the front lines‖. 15:04 ―It’s just like a regular job, you get time off‖, and I said, ―I know that it’s like that, but I do not want to go back to Vietnam. The only way‖— see, I tried to re-up in Vietnam and that’s something I forgot to tell you about. I tried to re-up when we were in O’Reilly. I went back to Camp Evans and I talked to them and I said, ―I’m willing to re-up for some more years if I can get the next step up‖, which was 91 Charlie. 91 Charlie is like a glorified registered nurse, right below a registered nurse, and you would do almost everything that a registered nurse would do, but you’re not a registered nurse. They said, ―Martin, there is this 91 Charlie, you can go into it if you want to, but I’ll be honest with you, you’re going to have to go back to the states and train and there’s no guarantee that you’re not going to come back here‖, and I said, ―I’m not going to do it then‖. 16:11 They had all the papers set up and I remember this sergeant the next day I came in he started cussing at me and he said, ―I did these papers and are you saying no?‖ I said, ―No, I’m sorry you can’t guarantee me that I’m not going to come back here‖, and I said, ―I can’t sign then‖, and he cussed me out and he said, ―Get back to the blankity, blank field then‖, but I never really went back in the field, I just stayed in the base camp with the 326 Charlie. Interviewer: So, when do you finally get discharged? I got discharged in August of 1971. Interviewer: What did you do then once you were out? Once I was out, my father was in insurance and he said I could work with him as long as I wanted to, and I did a little bit. 17:11 I got a job at the steel mill being a laborer, I got that job. It was good money, but it was real hot. They gave me the base job, and I 54 �remember going and cleaning underneath the gas furnace. It was so hot and I said, ―Man, what am I doing this for? Do I really want to do this?‖ So, then I made a decision soon after that, that I would go back into insurance with my father. So, I went and finished in insurance, and stuff, and I started going to this church, a deliverance church, where they prayed for you and cast out evil spirits on stuff off of you, and I went to that church for ten years, and that’s where I met my wife too. 18:01 Actually that church helped me out a lot. Even the VA said, ―Well, you’re not taking tranquilizers and stuff, you’re doing okay there, I guess, just keep going‖. Then I redid my vow. I made my commitment and me and my wife went to Bible College. I wasn’t married when I went to Bible College, but we married within a year of me going to Bible College. Interviewer: Since then you became a Chaplain? Yes Interviewer: How did that happen? Well, I got my license; I got my license for ministry, being ordination from the bible college I went to. I went three years and I did the GI Bill, the GI Bill paid for that. So, after that—the first year I asked my wife to marry me and she okayed it and I said, ―Unless I have the pastor okay it, your parents say okay, and my parents say okay, then it will happen, otherwise it’s not going to happen‖. 19:06 So, all of them said, ―Okay, Martin, you should get married‖, so I did. Then the rest is history. Me and my wife finished school down there and then my first two children were born in Pensacola, Florida. So then, after college, I decided that I was going to start a church, or something in Gary, Indiana, which was one of the roughest parts of Indiana, Gary. So, I did, I started it and it was just a flop. It was a terrible flop. I was sent people that threw me 55 �pennies from—while I was preaching and things like that happened. One guy actually committed a rape, you know, and it was just a big mess. 20:00 It was like, ―Lord, do you really want me doing this? Do you really want me doing this?‖ It was a depression and it seemed like the economy was down. I lived in a small section of Gary that did not have an insurance agency, in Black Oak, Gary, which is like ten thousand people, but no—it was like a small town, but no insurance agency. Nobody wanted to be there because it was too rough. So, I opened up an insurance agency. I felt like the lord said, ―Okay, go ahead and open up an insurance agency, you have your license‖. After the first year it was really a rough year to a year and a half, but after that it went off like a rocket. So, I’ve been doing insurance to provide for my family. I continued the ministry with doing things and being Chaplin for, and now I’m the Chaplin for the Vietnam Veterans of America, VVA, all of the veterans, so that’s what I do. 21:06 Interviewer: All right, and thanks for a good story and taking the time to tell it to me. Sure 56 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Glennon, Martin (Interview transcript and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Glennon, Martin Description An account of the resource Martin Glennon, born in Hammond, Indiana in 1946, served in the U.S. army as a medic from 1969 to 1971. He went to Vietnam in January, 1970. For the six months of his service in Vietnam, he was a field medic with A Company, 2/506 Infantry, in the 101st Airborne Division. While in this unit, he served in the Ripcord Campaign and survived the most costly firefight of the campaign. He was then stationed at Camp Evans working at a field hospital for the remainder of his time in country. When returning to the U.S. he spent another six months at Fort Knox working as an orderly. He was discharged in 1971 and is now a Chaplain for the Vietnam Veterans of America. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McGregor, Michael (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-10-08 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GlennonM1270V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8148e0be8beaada71a201e47dcbd1b16.mp4 726972006765f8e1997db36638fc36f4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d33745bf25d7c9e92342afde377be8ad.pdf 80ed07a6451de18f64ad37e1e0b4fc75 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Greg Glazier (41:12) (00:10) Background Information • Greg was born on April 8, 1967 • He enlisted in the Army in 1985 when he was 18 years old • Greg went to high school in Lansing and has 2 sisters and a brother • He enlisted because he was bored and wanted to do something different • He wanted to travel and to make some money • Greg felt that the Marines were too hard core and he does not like to fly, so he chose the Army (2:30) Training • There were lots of people yelling and screaming at him; they shaved all his hair off • He worked from 4:30 am till 10pm and only received 3 meals a day • Training was scary and he did not know anyone • He was trained in Fort Knox, Kentucky and had one instructor from Michigan (6:35) In Germany for 5 Years • Greg was stationed in Germany and had been called upon to go to Iraq, but it fell through • He had to guard American houses and keep watch for terrorists • Often he checked school busses for bombs • For his MOS job, he was a tank crew member (13:50) M-1 Abrams Tank • These weighed 55 tons and Greg started out as a driver • He then helped loading shells for the main gun, which were 120 mm shells • He ended up as a gunner and tank commander (16:15) Germany • They ate very starchy foods with lots of carbs; he gained 30 pounds • It was very stressful because he never got enough sleep • The men drank a lot on the weekends • He was often able to call his friends and family • He had time on leave to visit Paris and Amsterdam • Most of his time on leave was for a month in which he went back to the US • His family once visited him in Switzerland (24:50) The End of His Service • His time ended on February 1, 1995 and it was weird because he had been gone for so long • Greg went back to Fort Knox and then back to Michigan where he was married �• • • • He went back to school and received his Bachelors Degree in 2003 from the University of Phoenix He works with computers doing research in Grand Rapids The GI bill helped pay for college, up to $25,000 plus an extra $1,000 a month Greg now likes to spend his time camping, golfing, and playing softball (32:35) Overall Experience • Greg believes that it is good for anyone to spend time in the service; it helps them to mature and meet all kinds of different people • It provides discipline and good working ethics � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Glazier, Gregory (Interview transcript and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Glazier, Gregory A Description An account of the resource Gregory Glazier was born in Alma, Michigan in 1967. Gregory enlisted in the Army in 1985 and was part of the 1st Armored Division for 10 years. For most of his time in the service, Gregory was stationed in Germany where he guarded American housing areas and kept watch for terrorist activity. Gregory was also a tank crew member and his duties included driver, loading 120mm shells, gunner, and eventually tank commander. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Betts, Taylor (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-04-13 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GlazierG Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1dcdc0832ad09c161401d75f8ef96de1.mp4 d0b886ab6db7bd9397412d65416ea9b0 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8aa95fb2d1dc2955625ab33c07f93eca.pdf 082de21a9fd3cce84e0d6cba88da054f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Alida Glas Length of Interview: 42:35 (00:08) JS: We’re talking today with Alida Glas of Kentwood, Michigan. The interviewer is James Smither of Grand Valley State University. Mrs. Glas, can you start by telling us a little bit about your personal background? For instance, where were you born? AG: I was born in Broek op Langedijk, North Holland. JS: And is that near a city? AG: It’s north of, about twenty miles north of Amsterdam. JS: Okay. And what year were you born? AG: I was born in 1930. JS: Okay. Right. Now what did your family do? AG: My dad worked for a marketplace. We had mostly truck farming in the area. He worked at the place where they would bring it to market. JS: Okay. And where did you go to school? AG: I went to school, a Christian school in Broek op Landedijk. And I went to high school in Noord-Scharwoude, it was the village over. JS: Okay. Now, as the war in Europe was starting, the German attacked Poland in 1939 and so forth, were you aware at all of what was going on? Or did your father talk about that sort of thing? AG: My dad was called up. He was in the Army, in Den Helder, which was a coastal town north of us. (01:16) JS: So he would have been a reservist. About how old do you think he was then? AG: He must have been about mid-thirties. JS: What was his reaction to being called up? �AG: Well, he knew it was necessary. He didn’t like it. JS: Now did he, or the people in your community, did they hope the Germans would just leave the Netherlands alone? Cause in World War I, the Germans, they invaded Belgium, but they left the Netherlands neutral. What were people thinking then? AG: Well, I think they realized they weren’t going to escape this time. And we couldn’t stay neutral. They had hoped to. (01:57) JS: All right. So there’s a period there of a few months where not much is happening. And then in May of 1940, the Germans attack the Netherlands. What do you remember about those events? Or what did you see or hear about them? AG: Well, I remember waking up real early in the morning, by what I thought was the neighbor lady’s beating the rug. Cause it was Friday morning and it was usually house-cleaning days for the Dutch ladies. And they would hang their rugs on the clothesline and be beating them. And I thought, what? My neighbor is awful early, and waking me up like that. Then we heard the noise of the airplanes and they were bombing the airfield, close by. (02:40) JS: All right. And what happened to your father? Was your father away from the action, or… AG: Well, he was north of there. And there actually wasn’t any fighting there, because they dropped parachuters in the center of the country, close to Amsterdam and Utrecht. And Haag, and that’s where most of the fighting was. JS: And did you hear much about it, what actually happened, when the Germans landed? AG: Well, we listened to the radio all day, of course. It was…the whole thing was very scary. And hard to imagine what was going on. JS: Now, did you see any Germans before the surrender? AG: No. (03:30) JS: And do you remember hearing about any events or things that happened, while the fighting was gong on? AG: Well, we knew that a lot of our soldiers were being killed. And, I was kind of glad that my dad was where he was. But the fighting only lasted about five days, and that’s when they bombed Rotterdam. And they bombed Rotterdam, not just the harbor but the whole city. And that’s when the Queen gave up, the government… �JS: All right. Was there an announcement over the radio, that the country was surrendering, or… AG: (nods head) Yeah. They had no choice. (04:15) JS: All right. Now, then what happened in your community after the surrender? Did Germans come in? Did government change? AG: Not at first. We were just a small town. So we didn’t notice it that much. My dad came home and he was very angry. He said, "I didn’t even fire a shot." And, he was really…very angry about the whole thing. JS: What political preferences, or affiliations did your father have? AG: Well, it was a Christian party. Yeah, he was involved in that. JS: Now was it a Christian democratic party that didn’t like the Nazis? AG: (laughs) That’s for sure. He…I don’t know how to say this, but they were involved, he was very much involved in it. And it was mainly through the Christian Reformed Church, that this party was from, and the Reformed Church. I think they were about eleven parties in Holland. Instead of joining together…they should have done that, but… (05:32) JS: There were some conservative parties in some countries that affiliated with the Nazis or made friends with them. And others didn’t. So it was sort of clear that he did not like them? AG: Oh, no. Oh, no. He was very anti-Nazi. JS: Now did he continue working in the same job that he had before? AG: Yes. Yes. JS: Now, you said at first you didn’t notice much change, or difference in things. Now what kinds of things started to change as the war went on? Or in what ways did you rally start to feel the effect of the situation? AG: Well, we…everything was being rationed, you know. And the products of the vegetables, all that was sent to Germany by the trainload. And we stood in line for everything. I mean, I remember standing in line for a bunch of carrots. To this day, I hate to stand in line. JS: Now did you have a garden or anything at your own house? Were you able to grow anything? �AG: Not much. There were people who were the farmers themselves, you know, the truck farmers. They had some gardens. But my dad worked at the place where they brought the stuff for sale, so quite often they would give him some, of their products. (06:55) JS: Now was there less and less stuff for sale, as the war went on? AG: Oh, yeah. We had rationing for everything. Even for textile products, I mean, so many points is what they called them, for clothing, towels, sheets. I mean, we had nothing any more. I mean, it wore out and you couldn’t replace it. JS: Did your family do better, do you think, than some other people that were in the village, or was everyone kind of sharing what they had? AG: I don’t think we did better. I think the ones that had their own farm did much better. We ate pretty poorly there, for quite a while. JS: In what other ways did the war affect the community or the people within it? (07:43) AG: Well, we did get occupation in our village after a while, and they took over the bigger homes. Our home was not bigger, fortunately. But right next door, they were in the home. And the home across the street. So you were surrounded by those people. JS: Okay. So the German soldiers there, what impression did you have of them? What did they look like? How did they behave? AG: They didn’t behave very well. I mean, the homes that they were in, some were better than others, but some they would just deliberately destroy, I think. And the people who had to give up their homes, they could have a room in the back. And fend for themselves. They took over the best part of the house. (08:39) JS: And did they just take things from the house or wreck things? AG: (nods head) Yeah. And later on in the war, after the invasion began they would dig up to the front yard, to put gun emplacements in the front yard. If it was in the bend of the road, then they would be able to take care of that whole street. With the gun. JS: Now, did you have much contact or communication with the German soldiers? Did you talk to any of them? AG: No. My dad, the place where he worked, they had most of their stuff stored. Cause it was a big storage place, also, for the fruits and vegetables that were sold there. And they had all their hay there, cause they were still horse cavalry. �JS: Well, the Germans had horse drawn transportation for everything but the motorized divisions, so… AG: That’s right. JS: Most of the regular units, or certainly the ones that would be in occupation in the Netherlands, yeah, they would get around with horses and horse carts. (09:33) AG: Right. And they had their hay and their straw, all that was stored in that building there. So my dad, he talked to one of the soldiers, and he was an Austrian and he was compelled to occupy the country, so he got along okay with him. JS: Now did your father ever speak any German? AG: Somewhat. He always read a lot. He was self-taught. JS: You mentioned before the interview that your father was also interested in writing, and writing for newspapers. Did he… AG: Yeah, he was writing editorials. Pieces for the paper. JS: Now, what was…so there were still independent newspapers being published in the Netherlands then? AG: (nods yes) They just had to be careful what they said. (10:04) JS: How careful was your father in what he wrote? AG: Not too careful. JS: What kinds of things could he write about? AG: Well, he would tell them the things that weren’t right with the country, you know. And I was a child. I didn’t read so much of that. JS: Right. Right. But he found ways to do it that didn’t get him arrested. AG: That’s right. (10:45) JS: Now describe a bit about the German soldiers, themselves. How old do you think they were? Were these older men? Were they boys? �AG: They were older men, but not the commanders. They were in their twenties, I think. But a lot of them were older me, especially later on in the war, they were really…well, you know, you would call them older men, in their late forties. JS: Now were their people in your village or community who were friendly with the Germans, or got along with them? AG: (nods yes) Yes. Absolutely. And they were…they were shunned in the village. People did not want to go around with them. (11:30) JS: Did most people in the village just try to stay away from the Germans? AG: Yeah. JS: Now what happened to the population of the village? Were there people who had to leave and go work in Germany, or anything like that? AG: Well, they disappeared, you know, as soon as they had a calling up. They wouldn’t go. JS: Explain that. A calling up? What do you mean by that? AG: Well, being called up for the service. For working in Germany. As soon as you were eighteen, you were eligible to work in Germany, in the munitions factories. And you were…people just didn’t want to do that, so those boys disappeared. JS: And where did they go? AG: They would hide in other towns. They just wouldn’t have the papers. (12:21) JS: Right. AG: And so we had an underground working. They would go out on raids and steal papers. From… JS: Right. Steal identification papers. AG: Yes. And they would make out their own papers. They had forgeries. So in order to get food, you had to have your papers. JS: Now were the Germans sort of trying to catch these people, or did they have Dutch police helping them? AG: Oh, yes. We had raids. There was quite a bit of that. �JS: Now did any of the raids ever come in your house? AG: They did, yeah. JS: Can you describe a little bit what happened when… (13:01) AG: Well, they’d just go through the whole house, you know. And they were rough with everything. And sometimes you could tell that they had been told to go. There were betrayers in the village. And they were running an illegal press in the neighboring village, that my dad was also involved with. Cause we were listening to a radio illegally. We were supposed to turn in the radios. JS: Now were you able…did you listen to the BBC? AG: Right. In fact, we had our neighbor’s radio. He had a beautiful radio. And he was afraid to keep it. So my dad told him, I’ll take care of it for ya. JS: Now did he have a place to hide the radio? AG: Well, our house was built, the bottom part was brick, the top was wood. And no insulation. There was a bedroom upstairs and in the top of the bedroom, in the attic where he could barely bend over, that’s where the radio was. But it was on the street side. And I think anybody being on the street would be able to hear it. (Laughs) So one night, I remember that real well, he was up there and some of the neighbors came in. And they would trust people, to hear the latest news. Especially towards the end of the war, we were really getting desperate. So he was listening to it, and it was after curfew, and we hear the steps in front of the house. Well, we knew, we had the Germans right next door. We knew their steps. They had the heavy boots. And they stopped right in front of our house while my dad is listening to the radio upstairs. (14:54) AG: So, we managed to tell him to turn it off right away, because he hadn’t noticed. And we all kind of panicked. JS: That would be pretty scary at that point. AG: So a couple of the guys said we’ll go outside and see what’s going on, because, we were afraid. Cause if we were caught, we would have been sent to a concentration camp, the whole bunch of us. JS: Now did that happen to some people in your village? Were there families that got arrested and taken away? AG: Well, yeah. Not very many though, because they usually got warning in time. Those fellas went outside in the pitch dark. One went one way and the other went the other way and they �meet each other in the middle and the each thought the other was a German. So they grabbed each other by the throat and started fighting and they realized… JS: Oh, that they had found each other. (Laughter) (15:47) AG: So I mean some strange things happened, you know. JS: Now you could learn things that were happening in the war by listening to the BBC. Also, could you observe anything…for instance, a lot of Allied bombers flew back and forth over the Netherlands. Could you see those as they flew over? AG: Oh, yeah. We were right in the flight path. And hundreds of them would go over at once, you know. It was unbelievable. The windows would be rattling. It was very scary. Not so much on the way over, but coming back. You could hear if the engines weren’t going right. You knew that some of them were crippled. JS: So damaged planes were flying over. Did any planes crash? Or parachute… (16:33) AG: One did. Right, oh, I’d say, a couple of hundred yards right behind our house. And the pilot ejected. And he was never caught. So I think somebody in the village helped him, we never knew who, but he must have taken care of him. They would send them through Belgium to Spain, and back to England. JS: Right. Through the underground network. And, now, did you have anti-aircraft defenses in your area? Did the Germans have those kinds of defenses someplace else? AG: Oh, no. They were there. In the airfield close by. (17:16) JS: Now, about what time of the day or night did the aircraft go by, normally? AG: Well, they went during the day and they went at night. JS: That’s right. Because the Americans went during the day and the British went at night. So… AG: And they’d come back in the night. And, I didn’t sleep very good after that plane crash. Cause I’d be listening. You’d wake up and you’d be shivering in your bed. And you’d wonder…you’d listen if the engines would go all right. You could hear it on the engine if something was wrong. JS: Now were there places near where you lived that actually got attacked by aircraft? Positions that got bombed, or were you in a quiet enough place that that didn’t happen? �(17:57) AG: Well, towards the last winter, in fact the last year of the war, they told us not to go into anything that was moving, cause they’d come and they shoot…they shot at everything that moved. Boats or buses or cars. So everything came to a standstill. JS: Right, because they were…how far were you from the areas that the Allies occupied in the fall of ’44? Cause they went into the Netherlands, they attacked at Arnhem, but that would have been some way east and south of where you were. AG: Right. (18:28) JS: Now when that invasion is going on, were you hoping and learning about that and hoping they would keep going? AG: Oh, yeah. We heard it over the BBC. That’s all we heard, because according to the Germans, everything was going fine for them. Their news, you just couldn’t listen to it. JS: So the German news continued to act like basically everything was okay? AG: Oh, yeah. They had strategic withdrawals. (laughs) You know, that’s how they used to tell us. So… (19:00) JS: So they did to some extent concede that this was actually happening. What the outcome was there on the continent and that they were moving forward. AG: Oh course, they were winning that battle, at Arnhem. And that was terrible. My dad thought, now we’re never going to get out from under. And he was always listening to the BBC and he knew what was going on. JS: Now did you know any people who wound up being involved in the Resistance, or… AG: Oh, yeah. JS: How old… were they all different ages, or… AG: Well, most of them were young fellas. The ones, as soon as they were fifteen, you had what you call your personal papers. And by the time they were eighteen, they were sent to Germany. And those fellas all disappeared. We had one at our house. I didn’t see much of him, but he slept in our barn, in the attic. But in the day time, he was gone and worked on the illegal press. (20:04) JS: So you people really were right in the middle of things. �AG: Oh, yes. We were. JS: And you could have gotten into a while lot of trouble, if the wrong ones found out. But I would guess that…if the Germans never came in and found anything, and they didn’t arrest your father… AG: No. The press was not at our house. But he would have the papers. In fact, I personally delivered some of those papers to people that we trusted. (20:31) JS: So you had your list. AG: Yeah. JS: I have the impression that most of the people in the village were pretty much on the same side you were. AG: They were. But there were some that were more afraid than others. JS: Now in what other ways did the war sort of affect life in your village? For instance, did you have… were there refugees who came through? AG: Yes. We had refugees mostly from Den Helder, which was the city where my dad was. On the coast. And that was bombed. And those people all came walking down. And there was really no organization. They were just taken in by people as they went along. (21:14) JS: And did your family take any people in? AG: We had one man there for a while. But our house was small. It was really a two bedroom home. There was not, you know, very well suited to have too many people in there. JS: Right. And I think with what you had written about your experience before, you mentioned that there was a young girl who stayed with you at some point? AG: Yeah. JS: Can you tell us a little bit about her? AG: Well, she came with her sister, walking. They came for food, you know. They lived in Haarlem and they came with a handcart. And they came to get food. And they stopped at our house. It was towards evening and I think they were just dead tired. So my mom took them in and we shared what food we had with them. And the older sister went back home, and she stayed with us. She was my age. And she stayed with us for the rest of the war. (22:09) �JS: About how long was that then? AG: A couple years. JS: All right. Did you get to know her very well? Did she keep to herself? AG: Well, I knew her very well. We slept in the same bedroom, I mean. But she was very closed mouth and I always wondered about her. And I think her name was, it was a German name, I wondered if something was wrong, because she never talked about her folks. (22:34) JS: Is it possible she was Jewish, or just… AG: No. She wasn’t Jewish. But I wonder if they were collaborators. On her folks side. Because we never heard from her folks and she never talked about them. JS: Of course, if they had been collaborators, they might have been better taken care of and wouldn’t have had to go looking for food. AG: That’s true, yeah. JS: It was very hard to tell. And she wasn’t telling you anything… AG: She wasn’t telling us a thing. But, I got along okay with her. And we were, we went to school. She was in high school, the same as I was. JS: Now how many children were in your family? AG: I had a sister that was four years younger and then a brother was twelve years younger. We were spread out. And my fourth…my other brother wasn’t born until after the war. (23:26) JS: Okay. And let’s see, you were talking about different kinds of rationing and shortages and so forth. So food, clothing. Did it affect fuel, heating? AG: Yeah. We used to have just a round stove in the living room. And we used to burn coal in there, you know. But coal was very hard to get, so we ended up having to burn wood. But it was hard to get wood, because in the first place there aren’t as many trees, like there are in Michigan. So, there weren’t any trees left in the village. JS: Was your father able to get scrap wood from where he worked, or anything like that? AG: Oh, whatever he could find, yep. And like I said, they were so desperate, they were stealing the railroad ties from between the tracks. So, a lot of stuff went on at night after curfew that shouldn’t have been. �(24:25) JS: Now did the Germans over the course of time get increasingly harsh or angry? Did their behavior get worse as the war went on, or did they stay about the same? AG: Yeah. Well, you know, these were older guys, and I think a lot of them were Austrians that didn’t really want to be there in the first place. But there were some that were pretty nasty. Yep. JS: By the end of the war, what kind of food did you have? The stories go that the civilian populations in the Netherlands gather less and less food and the Germans took more and more away from them, because the Dutch didn’t help them enough. AG: Well, we, ah, my dad managed to get sugar beets. And I remember standing there over a big tub, grating them. And then we cooked the pulp and used the syrup for bread. And the bread that they had was terrible. And I remember they said it was made from beans instead of from flour. It was just…it would stick to your mouth and you could hardly chew it. A terrible taste. It filled your stomach, but that was it. Then we had that syrup over it. And then, somebody had a poppy field. And they got oil from that. You know, they tried to get a bottle of this…And I remember there wasn’t anything to make clothes from and we did our knitting, of course. And I remember going to the back country on the bike and getting a sheep skin from a farm. This was illegal too. (26:11) AG: And, but my mom had gotten a hold of a spinning wheel and we cleaned it, the sheep skin, ourselves and she spun yarn. It wasn’t the best. There were a lot of knobs in it, but at least I could knit myself a sweater. JS: But there was enough yarn there to make something you could actually use? AG: Yeah. JS: Yeah. A lot of this kind of thing is very difficult for a lot of Americans to imagine, because we did not go through that kind of thing here and did not have those kinds of things for a very long time. Are there other things like that that you remember? Things that characterize what it was like to live there at that time? AG: Well, the bikes. You know, it was all traffic by bike. And the tires wore out and there was no replacement for it. So, then they came with wooden tires. And that was terrible. (laughter) So, we tried it once and we said we’d rather walk. So I went to high school, so I had to walk to our village and then the next village and then the third village, I was in the high school. So I walked quite a ways every day. JS: About how long did it take you to walk to school? (27:25) AG: Oh, about forty minutes. And then we’d stay for lunch, such as it was. But there were times when there was no bread. We could always get some potatoes because we lived in an area �where a lot of potatoes were grown. So I’d walk home at noon and then back to school again. Got my exercise. JS: Right. Were the farmers able to kind of hide away some of what they grew? AG: I think they probably did, yeah. They couldn’t possibly control everything, you know. But for people who did not grow their own, it was very hard. (28:02) JS: Now you were probably still a little better off than people in the cities… AG: Oh, yeah. JS: At least there were farmers around and you were… AG: People in the cities, they were starving, absolutely. Living in the country, we didn’t do so well either. We did get a lot of disease. And my dad had to work out in the cold, with not really enough warm clothing. He developed lung problems. And then the whole family had dysentery. Cause of the food we had, which was pretty awful. JS: What kind of medical care did you have? AG: Well, there wasn’t anything. There were no medications. So, they said beets was good for dysentery, so we ate beets. (laughs) JS: Were there any doctors around? AG: We had a doctor in the village, but like I said, everything was in short supply. And, it was just pretty awful. (29:03) JS: Now, were you aware of the kinds of things the Germans were doing, and that the Jews were being deported? AG: Oh, yeah. Well, at first we didn’t want to believe it, until they started going through the village too, you know. And even if you were Aryan, as they called it, and you were married to a Jew, they considered you a Jew. And the same with the children. It was unbelievable. And they stole everything they had. A lot of the Jews, especially in the Amsterdam area, were better off. they had nice possessions and that was all stolen from them. You read the book from Anne Frank, and you know. (29:47) JS: Now during the war, did you know that the Germans were actually taking people off and killing them, or did you just think they were going into prison camps somewhere? �AG: We thought they were going into concentration camps. Later on we heard through the BBC what was happening to them, too, you know. JS: Okay. Now, do you remember what it was like as the war was coming to an end? In the spring of 1945, the Allies actually get into Germany. Your area was still being controlled by the Germans. What was it like to be listening to that? AG: Oh, we lived for the radio news. We really did. JS: As it got close to the end, did the Germans begin to change their behavior at all, to begin to think that maybe these people know? (30:33) AG: Well, yeah. They did allow us, in April, they did allow us to have bread sent from Sweden, who was neutral. And it was white bread from Sweden, and like I said, it tasted like cake. (laughs) We hadn’t had bread like that for years. JS: But did they continue to search for resisters, and radios and all that? AG: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Some were pretty mean, too. But we couldn’t wait for it to end. JS: Now, did our father ever get into trouble, get questioned or interrogated, things like that? AG: Well, one time when there was a raid, he just happened to run into them. And then the fella, the soldier that was walking ahead of the wagon that had the prisoners in it, he told him, Dableiben. Stay right there. And he walked on and Dad didn’t stay right there. So, he ran, into the marketplace where there were a lot of different buildings and he managed to find a hiding place. But that…where we lived, it was mostly canals. And farmers would go to work by boat. And they’d have maybe one acre lot here, and one there, and it was all surrounded by water. So, the minute we had warnings about the raids, they all took to the fields. And since there weren’t any helicopters, they could get away with that. Hide out in the boats in the canals. (32:19) JS: The boats in the canals is where you could get out of sight relatively easily. Now did the Germans let them keep the boats? AG: Well, it was their livelihood. It was the only way they could get their produce off the field. So they had to leave them the boats. And, uh, it just was a good thing that we had that. JS: All right. Now, how did you learned that the war was over, that the Germans actually surrendered? AG: Well, we heard news the day before that they surrendered, but we, so we all, I think I was in bed already, and the news went through. Of course, we couldn’t stay in bed then. (laughs) And we all ran outside and everybody was in the street, making a lot of noise, and happy. �JS: What did the Germans in the town do? (33:10) AG: And then the Germans started shooting in the air, because it wasn’t official yet. And I thought, we’re going to get killed now, the day before? You know. So we all ran back home again. It was just so frightening. They were just flexing their muscles yet, again, I guess. JS: And then what happened the next day? AG: The next day, the Germans walked out. JS: So they just left? They just left everything behind. AG: Yep. They didn’t look quite so brave then. And we were dancing in the street. (33:43) JS: Now how long was it before any Allied forces or any Dutch people working with them came into your village? AG: Well, most of them were in the southern part of the Netherlands. And we had Canadians troops, mostly. And we would see them come by on motorcycles and they would go to the official buildings. In fact, one of them kind of stopped, I was kind of mad about that…I was standing there with a couple of girls and a Canadian on a big bike stopped and asked for the distribution center, and I was the only one that understood him, and I was trying to explain it and one of the girls hops on the bike and off she went. (Laughter) I wasn’t happy about that, I know that. But, anyway, that’s what happened. (34:33) JS: How long was it before you started to get in some food and things like that? AG: Oh, that still took a while. We did get a lot of stuff already in April, because they were dropping it. They dropped it from the planes. JS: Oh, okay. And then the Germans didn’t manage to take all of that? AG: No. They didn’t. They let us have it. I think they realized by then that it was the end for them. And we used to get Spam, which was wonderful stuff. And corned beef hash and stuff we’d never had before. And I think a lot of people get sick, because there, all of a sudden, we had rich food. And I remember, my mom and I both had hepatitis. We were sick when the war was over, and it was kind of hard, because then we weren’t allowed to eat all of that. JS: Right. It took a while to get your system to be able to handle those things. AG: That’s right. (35:32) �JS: Now what did your father do after the war then? AG: He went back to his job in the village. But he was very unhappy with it. JS: What did he want to do? AG: Well, he had wanted to be a teacher, but he was the only son with ten sisters and he had to be on the farm. His dad wouldn’t allow him to go study. And he had taught himself some German. Because they had had an exchange student from Hungary, in World War I, I guess. So from him, he learned to speak German. (36:09) JS: And then he also, I guess, learned to write well enough to be writing for that newspaper. AG: Oh, yeah. He was a very smart man. He just didn’t have the education. And so he was just really disgusted that things went right back to the people who had collaborated and had been hiding all this time, while they let the underground do all the work. So he said, I want to go to America. JS: So he wasn’t able to continue writing for the regular newspaper, then? AG: No. The man came right back, the one who was so afraid before. (36:45) JS: So he decides to go to America. So when do you move to America? AG: In ’48. JS: And where did your family go? Did they come out here to Michigan? AG: We came here with an empty liberty ship, cause there weren’t any liners at that time. So we were the only passengers on board. And they had hauled coal to Europe. It was a pretty dirty ship, because of the coal dust. JS: Do you remember what time of year it was? AG: Yeah. September. JS: And what was the weather like on the ocean? AG: Well, we were on the ship for thirteen days because we had to go around because of hurricane season. JS: Okay. (37:23) �AG: We weren’t in a hurricane ourselves but the sea was pretty rough. And we slept in sick bay, in the back. And that was right above the screw, you know. And the ship would be going up, and that screw would (motions a spin). They were afraid it would fly off. In fact, we were all assigned to different life boats already. The whole things was kind of scary. JS: Well, sure. Because, well, had you ever been in a bigger boat than the ones on the canals? AG: No. I was brought up on the water. It didn’t scare me as far to be on a boat, but that storm got my attention. JS: All right. Once you got to America, where did you go? AG: Our sponsor lived in Maryland, on the eastern shore. So that’s where we…we landed in Newport News. Of course, he was waiting for us a couple of days already and we were late because of the hurricane. So he was not a very happy man when we came. And he had a big three hundred and fifty acre estate, he used to work for the government. But at that time, I guess, Truman got in too, and he was a Republican, so he was out of favor, and… (38:47) JS: Well, the Republicans hadn’t been in favor for quite some time, but… AG: Well, we didn’t know that much about it. Well, we knew Roosevelt, of course. We loved Roosevelt. So my dad was a gardener there. And I worked as an upstairs maid, because it was a big estate. And I didn’t trust my English enough to look for other work. And besides, they were our sponsor, they wanted us to work for them. And we did. And then their grandma came into town and Grandma was not the easiest person to live with. So they had got a little bungalow for her in town and they wanted me to take care of her. Well, I lasted three months and that’s was it. Because that lady belonged in a home. She wasn’t really normal anymore, you know. So then I ended up in New Jersey. Cause people in New Jersey had a farm in Maryland and they loaned me to them. And they were Dutch, originally. And they wanted to have a Dutch maid, so I ended up in New Jersey. In Upper Montclair. Lived there for a year and a half and then my folks moved to Michigan because my dad had a sister in Michigan. (40:03) JS: And what did your father do when he got to Michigan? AG: He worked for a factory. And then he worked for the city of Kalamazoo. And then…but his health was bad then, by that time. He died of a heart attack at 55. And, uh, so I was in New Jersey for a year and a half, and then came to Kalamazoo and that’s where I met my husband. (40:32) JS: All right. Well, it’s a pretty remarkable story. Are there other things about that time that you remember that we haven’t talked about yet? You’ve done a pretty good job of covering the things that you’ve written about before. AG: Um hmmm… �JS: How do you think the whole experience affected you as a person? AG: Well, I tell you, when I first came here, and I would hear sirens, I’d start crying. I don’t know why but I just couldn’t control myself. But it was just those raids, they were so scary. And it took a couple of years, to get over that. JS: Do you think you had to grow up a little bit faster, just because of all of the stuff that went on around you? AG: Yes. And then also because I was the oldest in the family, and we had a small store for a while. And I used to have to deliver the groceries. My dad used to do that. My mom ran the grocery store while he worked at the marketplace. And then I had to deliver the groceries because he was in a sanitarium for half a year because his lungs were bad. So I think, yeah, I had to grow up a lot faster than… JS: Now did they have the store during the war or after it? (41:51) AG: We had it during the war. But we ate the inventory. So after a couple of years, we had to close the store. My dad had caught a bad cold and it was, he went to the eastern part of Holland, which was higher ground. Not as damp as where we lived. And it was better for his lungs and that’s where he was for half a year. So, I had to help my mom quite a bit. JS: All right. Well, we’re glad you came out this well and that you’re here to tell us your story today. So thank you very much for coming in. AG: You’re welcome. (42:35) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Glas, Alida (Interview transcript and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Glas, Alida Description An account of the resource Alida Glas was a teenager in the Netherlands during WW II. In this account, Glas discusses family and friends, the invasion of Holland, and life during the German occupation. She mentions the activities of the Dutch Underground, the effects of the food shortage in the Netherlands, and what German troops were like in her village. Glas concludes by discussing her life after the war and some of her thoughts on the war. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-02-21 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GlasA Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e48f9013f39801c6c1c263ad12158e2c.mp4 2298499e5c83b81fd8f805ee308da9ec https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/03e713ba61256eba31ccabf3e79180ee.pdf 320d8349e012aae5e8b33d39d041093e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Rita Glanz Length of Interview: 41:30 (02:03) JS: We’re talking today with Mrs. Rita Glanz of Kentwood, Michigan. The interviewer is James Smither of Grand Valley State University. Mrs. Glanz, can you start by telling us just a little bit about yourself. To begin, where were you born? RG: I was born in Vienna, Austria. JS: In what year? RG: 1938. JS: 1938 or 1933? What year were you born? RG: Oh, 1933. Sorry. I was born in 1933, but my first memory is 1938. November 19th, actually, when they took my father away. JS: Explain a little bit about the background. Your family is Jewish. RG: Yeah. My family is Jewish. My father was in the feather business. Which back in those days was apparently very profitable. JS: What do people do with pillows? Was it stuff pillows or other things? (02:55) RG: (laughs) We used to have mattresses that were made of feathers. Comforters used feathers. He had two places. One for the comforters and mattresses and pillows. And another one, women used to wear boas. Hat feathers. Various things. So that was another place. And he owned an apartment building. And, back in those days, my mother was very sick. I didn’t know why. She was in bed a lot. We, I had a nanny and we had a maid and a washer-woman. And my father was pretty well-off. (03:48) RG: But then November 10th, 1938, they came and they took him away. I remember my mother screaming. And…back in those days, apparently, you could still bribe your way out. JS: The Germans had only taken over Austria in April that year, so the Nazi’s hadn’t really been there that long yet. And you still would have had Austrian police officials and things like that. �RG: Yeah, but they were all Nazis. Because I remember looking out the window, and (makes face). Well, this was after they took him away, actually. And they were beating up people in the street. And, uh, anyway, he bribed his way out. Three days later he came home. (04:41) RG: One thing that really sticks in my mind. His sister came over and they had taken her husband away too. He had a hardware business. And she was sitting on the bench in the hallway…well, as a young child this sticks in my mind…all of a sudden, she was talking to him and she must have fainted, and my father ran and got a bucket of water and threw it at her. This really impressed me. But they had taken him, my uncle, to Dachau. They loaded them all on the truck. But my father got out with the proviso that he leave the country immediately. So he went and left for Switzerland, but he left illegally. So they put him into a labor camp, digging roads. And, uh… (05:50) JS: Now, were there…did he tell you much about that? I mean, were there a lot of Jews who wound up doing that kind of thing? RG: Yeah. Yeah. It was a big, big community. In fact, well, that’s skipping a lot but I met several people after I came to New York, but they were in that camp. And, as a result of him going to Switzerland, and writing letters, he got to put me on this Kindertransport. (06:24) JS: Can you explain what that was? RG: This is a system whereby the English people let in ten thousand Jewish children. Between the end of 1938 and July of 1939. I got out on the next to the last train. July 11, 1939. And, I remember my nurse took me to the station, cause as I said, my mother was really sick. And I had two cousins that came along, a girl and a boy, who later ended up in what was later Palestine. They escaped. And, it was a horrendous trip, because I remember, I guess crossing the English Channel…I have motion sickness. Which I found out then. I was very very sick. (07:27) RG: I got put…we all got put into this orphanage in London. Rows and rows of beds. And a few times, people came and took us out for walks. I guess, like I said, this was July of ’39, and England hadn’t declared war yet. JS: Right. The war hadn’t started yet. RG: And I remember, someone took about six of us for a walk and a lady came out and bought us a box of Black Magic chocolates. It was such a nice surprise. Cause I’m a chocoholic anyway. And then, around in September, people used to come around, looking at us, and this wonderful couple came, Harry and Frieda Morgan, and they adopted…well, they took me with the proviso that it was for the duration of the war. And they lived in Coventry, which it turned out was very very badly bombed. �(08:41) RG: So when they first took me, I didn’t speak a word of English and they didn’t speak a word of German. It was terrible, but they sent me to school. And the kids used to throw rocks at me and call me “Nazi.” So, I learned English very fast, because I explained to them that I was running from the Nazis too. So, I think in two or three weeks, I was really making myself understood. And we lived, like I said in Coventry, and each time the bombing was really bad. Like at night, they would drop the bombs and you could go outside and read a newspaper, that’s how bright…it was as bright as this studio. (09:33) JS: So this happened on a lot of different nights? RG: Every night. They were bombing. Because Coventry was practically wiped off the face of the map, if you’ve ever heard of it. JS: Yeah, yeah. RG: And we lived at 36..3 Altamont Green. No, 37 Altamont Green Road, I remember. The first place, but then it got so so bad, we moved further down the road. To 363 Altamont Green Road. And it just kept getting worse. Like… JS: Now was this just kind of still in a kind of built up area, like a suburb? RG: Yeah. Coventry is, yeah, we were like on the outskirts of Coventry, but it didn’t matter. It was a very industrialized city. I think they supplied rubber, or made airplanes, or whatever. JS: Yeah. A whole lot of factories were there and that’s why it was targeted. (10:27) RG: So, then my adopted family, I called them “Aunt” and “Uncle,” they were conscientious objectors. Christians, called Christadelphian religion, they…he was a stretcher bearer in the hospital, and she was an air raid warden, so most of my time, I spent under the stairs. We had what was called an Anderson table. It was steel, with netting. And I slept in the closet, under the table. With my cat, Tubbins. JS: Now did they have children? RG: No. JS: About how old were they at the time, do you think? RG: Oh, they must have been in their early forties. And the reason they took me is because my name was Rita, and they had always wanted a child to name Rita. (11:23) �RG: So, anyway, the bombing just got worse and worse. Like I said, they bombed the waterworks. And we didn’t have water for several days and then they put pipes above ground. And, you had to boil the water all the time. And, also, this is funny to tell about it now, but they told you to take a bath only once a week. And first I…it was only like six inches of water. First I took a bath, then my Aunt Frieda took a bath, then my uncle, in the same water. Which now seems like inconceivable, but we managed. And we didn’t have that much food either. But my uncle used to grow vegetables, so sometimes for supper, that’s all we had. We roasted an onion in the fireplace. That’s what we had for supper. It was good though. And every day, she made rice pudding, which now, I won’t touch rice pudding. For seven years, rice pudding was a bit much. (12:42) RG: And then it just got worse and worse. So we moved to another little suburb of Coventry. It was called Nuneaton. Which was much better. There wasn’t as much bombing. And suddenly the war was over. But I didn’t want to leave them, because I didn’t hardly even remember my mother. Or my father, you know. But in the interim, I had gotten a letter from my father that my mother had died. But I don’t really know if she died, or was put to death. Because back then they used to put sick people to death. JS: Yes, they did. (13:33) RG: But, years and years later, a cousin of mine, um, went to Vienna and he put her name on my grandmother’s tombstone, so…I don’t know what happened to her. And, anyway, I didn’t want to leave England, because to me, these people were my only family. But my father, he wrote a letter to the Prime Minister, Churchill, the king at the time, that he wanted to get me out of there, I don’t know why. And in the meantime, his brother-in-law, my uncle who had been in Dachau, he had a sister in Brooklyn, and as a result, she was able to get him out of Dachau. Early ’39. He was in there like six months. And get him to a place called Kitchener Camp, in England, which was like a rehabilitation camp. (14:48) RG: But he was never rehabilitated. He was like a nervous mental wreck. And because of this sister of his in Brooklyn, he was able, with my aunt, to come to America. But they couldn’t stand New York, cause like I said, he was such a mess, so they went to relatives that had escaped in the First World War, and gone to Birmingham, Alabama. And so that’s where they lived. And my father threw all of his letter-writing…see, I would have legally been belonging to my aunt and uncle by September of…from Setember of ’39 through September of ’46. The seven years would have been up, but he wanted me out of there. So he got me out of there in May, of 1946. To Birmingham, Alabama. (16:05) JS: Let’s back up a little bit. I’d like you to fill in a little bit more of the story. You lived there in England, in the Coventry area for seven years. Now, once you had begun to make yourself understood there, in school, how did you get along with the kids in school? �RG: Oh, great. I was really happy there, you know. I felt at home. And I made lots of friends. I felt like, well, my aunt and uncle, I felt like they were my parents, because, as I said, I hadn’t seen my father since I was five. My mother since I was six. And then, I knew she was dead. My father taught himself English in Switzerland, and he used to write letters. (17:01) JS: Now did you remember any of your German then, at that point? Or did you lose track of that? RG: Not really. No, I like blocked it out of my memory. However, well, to skip back then, if you want me to, I lived in Birmingham, Alabama, which I thought I’d died and gone to hell. Cause back in those days, the worst thing was being black and the next worst thing was being Jewish. JS: Right. RG: This was in 1946. God, I hated it. Plus it was so hot, coming from a European climate. And in fact, when I got to the railroad station…back in those days, trains, everything was segregated, and I, myself, had never seen an Afro-American person. And the terrific, intense heat when I got off the train…I was still wearing winter clothes. This was May 13, 1946. Uh, I thought when I saw these black people, I thought that was a deep suntan, because it was so…you have no conception the heat, from…coming from Europe to that. (18:27) RG: So, I really hated it there. Back those days, America had a quota system, I don’t know if they do now. And I was on the Austrian quota, that’s why I was able to come here in ’46. But my father had been…back in those days, sometimes it was Poland, sometimes it was Russia, in 1914. When his family escaped and went to Austria. So he was on the Polish quota, which the United States had on a lower quota system. So he didn’t get here until 1947. And when he got off the train, my aunt said “That’s your father.” And I really really didn’t know him. Because he had been a business man prior to my… JS: Right. Right. RG: And then for seven years he’d been digging roads. He was real thin and he didn’t look like the same person…I didn’t have that overwhelming feeling, like wow. That’s my father. You know. But anyway, he hated Birmingham, too. So he stayed like two weeks. And he went to New York. And people that he had done business with prior to the war, and started with the feather business. Because he was working for someone. It wasn’t his own business. (20:02) JS: Right. RG: So I stayed in Birmingham until 1949, and he used to write letters…you know, how lonely he is, blah blah blah. So I thought I would go to New York, because I had heard better things about New York. And I went there and he put me up with some friends of his, from Switzerland. �So I only saw him on weekends anyway. And then on my seventeenth birthday, I made a lot of friends in Brooklyn, and they made me a surprise birthday party. It was a Saturday night. I called him up to tell him and he wasn’t home. And the next morning he came to the house where I was staying and said, “c’mon get up. I got married last night.” So he had married this woman that he had also met in Switzerland. From Stuttgart, and her husband had been killed. (21:10) RG: And, back in those days, it was hard to get apartments and everything. JS: Right. RG: So they had gotten a furnished apartment in Queens, New York. And that was also a funny story. The people that lived in the other floor, they were also, had lived in England, and the mother-in-law, she came over one day and she was talking and she said, “Yes, I came over on the ship called the Drottningholm.” Which was the ship I came on. And she said, “Oh my goodness, you’re the little girl they carried on board screaming.” She remembered me. And I was seasick the whole ten days. It took ten days. (22:00) RG: And then finally, they were able…my father was able to get an apartment in Brooklyn. We moved to Brooklyn. We moved to…back in those days, it was the biggest high school in the United States, Erasmus Hall. And I graduated from Erasmus Hall and went into Brooklyn College for two years. And I quit to get married. And said I would go back within a year. Oh, well, yes. It’s fifty four years later and I never did. Unfortunately. And, I met my husband in Brooklyn and, he had escaped, I think I mentioned, from Germany. And was in Ireland. So we were always in next door countries. When I came to Alabama, he came to Connecticut. JS: Not quite so next door. RG: Well, (laughs). He came to Brooklyn and I came to Brooklyn and that’s how we met. JS: And how much older was he than you? RG: A lot. Eleven years actually. JS: Did he say much about what it was like to be in Ireland during the war? (23:17) RG: Yeah, well, what happened was the Jewish community in Ireland donated land. And a lot of these kids…well, some of them were older, in their twenties, or fifteen, sixteen, seventeen. But they built it up, made it like a farm. And they grew vegetables and stuff, for the soldiers. And it was in Drogheda, and he went back in 1980, no I think 1990, went and looked at it. They didn’t have hardly any bombing. JS: Was he in Northern Ireland, the British part, or… okay. Because if he was in the Irish Republic, that was a neutral country at that point. �(24:12) Note: sound quality shifts at this point. Difficult to hear RG. RG: So then, he had family that also escaped in 1914, and ended up in Connecticut. And that’s how he…put an ad in the paper, and anybody related to Nathan [unclear] Glanz, back then, you used to have two last names. And he immediately got an answer from a great aunt of his. And so she sponsored him and within three weeks, he was there to see her. Cause the German quota was larger. JS: Right. RG: So, that’s my story. That’s how I, uh… (25:12) JS: Okay. If we may, I’d like to go back a little bit here, to what was going on in England. During that period when you were living in Coventry and so forth, how much were you aware of what was going in in Europe and the world? Were you paying attention to that kind of thing? RG: Oh, yeah. We used to… (Brief interruption to change microphone.) (26:03) JS: I was asking you about following news of the war and so forth. So how did you learned about things? RG: Well, we read the newspaper. And we had broadcasts every night, on the radio. There was no such thing as tv. And they used to play, every night, the national anthems of each allied country. On the radio. We always stayed up to listen to that. And, you know, you knew what was going on, somewhat. Not everything. JS: How worried did people seem to be, in the first couple of years in the war? RG: Very. Very worried. England, when I first got adopted, seemed to think, from what I understood, that Hitler was going to be there any day. This was in September of ’39. Well, that was when the war started. And, yeah. We had so many air raids. (27:18) RG: And it was…two specific times I remember… as I said, my uncle was a stretcher bearer. And he was gone for five days. I think it was in 1940 or ’41, I don’t know. We had straight bombing. It just never ever stopped. JS: Yeah. It was late in 1940, was a major attack. RG: And we didn’t see him for five days. You know, my aunt was frantic. And then he finally came home. And of course, they bombed the hospital, too. And then Coventry was very famous for its cathedral. And the shell of the cathedral is still standing. I mean, I’ve been back, many many times. And it was just like an empty hole. And the only thing that was left, which was �amazing to most people, was a little plaque that said “In God We Trust.” Which is still there. And now next to it, they’ve built this beautiful ultra-modern cathedral, which is very controversial because people think it’s a little too modern. But basically, Coventry was like wiped off the map. They bombed everything. JS: And was there a lot of damage in the neighborhoods that you were living in, at least at first? (28:47) RG: Yeah. I remember walking to school and the houses were like piles of rubble. Once I saw a hand, an arm. Another time, this was terrible, I saw a head sticking out. And we had our classes, mostly, in the air raid shelter, because…and we would have a little board, a little blackboard like this (motions a square with her hands), each, with a little piece of chalk. Cause we had no paper. JS: Right. RG: In fact, this is ridiculous, but we didn’t even have toilet paper. We used to have to use newspaper. I mean people here can’t comprehend what it was like. It’s hard for me, even, to comprehend what it was like at that time. But, like I say, certain things, I’ll never forget. (29:47) RG: Like in Vienna, they used to walk along and women, men, kids, they used to say “Sieg Heil.” It was unbelievable. That’s why it’s really hard to comprehend how people can be that way. JS: Did your father tell you much about what life was like in Vienna before the Nazis got there? RG: Oh, it was wonderful. That’s why I said to him, how come you kept staying there? So he said, well, what do you think, that I would ever believe that this crazy person would make something of himself. We never thought it would happen. And I had two businesses. I had an apartment building. We had everything. And I wasn’t going to leave because I thought nothing would ever happen. And, now, he had nothing. (30:54) RG: I mean, he tried to get like retribution, or whatever it’s called, but he never did. But he died, he was 89 years old. Here, he died in Brooklyn, so at least he had some peace. But, ah, he kept…I used to say to him, why didn’t you leave before? Because I’ve spoken to several people that did leave, and he said, why would you leave your business, your property and everything. Because this was a crazy person. (31:42) JS: Yeah. And it was a little bit different being in Austria, rather than being in Germany, too. RG: Well, from what I understand, the Austrians were worse than the Germans, as far as being anti-semitic. Then I had an aunt and uncle, they were both physicians, and they were head of what was called the Krankenkase, which was like socialized medicine. And they were able to �get out with their two sons to the Dominican Republic. And then…that was my mother’s brother and his wife. Then my father had a sister, another sister, that was able with her husband to get to Mexico. Because people, if you had a visa, you got on a boat, if you had enough money and you didn’t even know where you were going. (32:39) RG: So, like I said, my father was one of eight. But they all got killed. And my mother, her brother and sister and her husband and child, they were all killed. But one story, which I will never forget, this was right, the day after they took my father away. November. We had an egg man, which we used to call the schwendler, which meant “the swindler.” He came all the time, delivered eggs and the cook would always give him coffee and everything. It was like, friendly person. Well, the day after they took my father away, he came to the house, and we had this big china closet, like, which I didn’t realize, but there was a bunch of gold dishes in there. Which I certainly didn’t care about. And he came and he took my doll carriage and he went like this (motions with her hands), and swept these gold dishes into the doll carriage. And was pushing it away and I was screaming and grabbing his leg. And my nurse came over and she’s pulling me away. (34:00) RG: I mean, later, when I came to Birmingham, my aunt told me “those dishes were real gold,” because my mother’s brother had owned a goldmine. And, I mean, I didn’t really care about the dishes. But my doll carriage, that was a very upsetting, traumatizing thing for me. Which seems silly now, but… JS: It doesn’t sound silly at all. RG: I can’t forget…I can still see his face. And like I say, he must have been aware of what was going on because why else did he come the day after they took my father away. JS: That’s also right at the time when they had Kristallnacht. RG: It was Kristallnacht. November 10th. But, anyway, I told you I forgot my German. So when my father married my step-mother, she was illiterate in all languages. So I was trying to teach her English to become a citizen. And my German all came back to me. She never did learn English. Because I was teaching her, well, back then, there’s forty eight states in the United States, you know. And five boroughs in New York. And I took her for her citizenship papers and they asked her how many states in the United States, and she said, “funf,”which is five. But then they passed her anyway. But that’s how my German came back to me. But I don’t like to speak German because it brings back too many bad memories. (35:56) JS: Sure. Now in England, you had there’s a period early in the war where the Germans do a lot of bombing, and this is a phase after that, where a lot of that lightened up. Did life get somewhat more normal or were there continually raids at night? �RG: Oh, in Coventry, it was like every night. We had…they did two hours daylight savings time. Which was ridiculous. Because they thought they wouldn’t come if it was daylight. Well, like I told you that one instance, they bombed five days and nights straight. JS: Right. RG: And it was terrible…I can’t really remember. It was a nightly thing it seemed like, every night. JS: Throughout 1940 and ’41, they did a lot. After that, they were running lower on bombers and needed them other places. RG: Yeah. JS: But they still did conduct raids. (36:58) RG: A lot. And then I told you we moved to Nuneaton. It was like Kentwood to Grand Rapids, maybe. So it wasn’t as bad, but you could hear. And when the war was over, it was June 6, I remember we had this big block party. And my aunt made me a costume out of the blackout curtain. I mean, that was her job. She used to go around as an air raid warden, looking for little specks of light coming through the window. But Nuneaton never did get bombed that much, but Coventry was unbelievable. (37:55) JS: Now did you see anything of American or foreign soldiers during the war? Were they based anywhere around there? RG: I saw a baseball game. Yep. American soldiers. A bunch of us went and we were sitting in the stands. And they were playing baseball. And this one friend, her name was Marie, and the baseball came and hit her right here. (points to forehead) And she was, like, unconscious for quite a while. That was my first impression of baseball. Ugh…and then also there was this, let’s see, a distant distant relative. He must have been in the American Navy. And he came over. My aunt in Birmingham had told him where we were living and everything. And he was stationed not far from Coventry. And he came (laughs) and he brought Planter’s peanuts, two one pound cans, and as I said, we had hardly any food and certainly hardly any candy, everything was rationed. So I pigged out on these Planter’s peanuts. (39:19) RG: And it was around Christmas time, and one day I just passed out, and I had a ruptured appendix. And apparently, what the doctor had said back then, it was from eating all these peanuts. Aggravated my appendix and caused it to rupture. But that was my, ah, being a pig, actually. And another time my aunt had sent me from America, some chewing gum. And I was caught in class, chewing gum. Which you weren’t allowed to chew. We didn’t have any gum. So I got kept after school, I was walking home by myself. It was about 4 o’clock and sirens went, and it was the rule that you had to get into an air raid shelter. Cause we had them along the �road. But most people had their own. In the house. So I went in and it was empty. I stayed there a while and it was dark. And I was scared of the dark. I must have been about eight, I think. So I started to run away from the shelter. And there was a direct hit on the air raid shelter. (40:38) JS: Oh, wow. RG: So I guess I had a guardian angel someplace cause I had a couple of narrow escapes. But, other than that, I guess I’m lucky to be alive. Because most of my family didn’t make it. So… (41:04) JS: As families go, you had a pretty good record. You had relatives who got out. RG: Yeah. Two aunts. And my mother’s brother. They later got to New York. Of course, they’re all dead now. But, yeah, they managed to get out. JS: It’s a remarkable story and thank you for telling it to us today. RG: You’re welcome. I’m glad I survived to tell it. (Laughs) (41:30) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Glanz, Rita (Interview transcript and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Glanz, Rita Description An account of the resource Rita Glanz was one of the 10,000 Jewish children saved before WWII started as a result of the Kinder Transport. Her father, a successful businessman, was driven out of Austria and into Switzerland by the Nazis. Mrs. Glanz was taken in by a couple from Coventry, in Great Britain, and remained with them for the duration of the war. Afterwards, her father wrote letters to Winston Churchill and George VI, and managed to get his daughter out of there. She spent three years with relatives in Birmingham, Alabama. She grew up in New York, graduated from high schoo, and spent two years in college before getting married. Her husband had escaped from Germany to Ireland, eventually coming to the United States. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-04-24 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GlanzR Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b816b565351be9b30af0be8f3525821d.mp4 0e91185107acdebc177c4757f12573d6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/763f0d1a3ab54e0e3d0d0c878f0e9b5f.pdf e4bc100e49d4c8b966e98ec4fb68943b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Troy Girke (1:01:22) (01:25) Background Information • Troy was born in Allegan, MI • He has one brother and a very close family • He had a fun childhood in the country where he was able to spend a lot of time hunting and fishing (2:15) The Service • Troy joined the Navy in 1983 and spent 20 years in the service • He had thought about joining only shortly when he was very young • He tried to get his brother to join with him, but it was during hunting season, so he joined shortly after Troy • He chose the Navy because he thought that he would be more safe on a boat (4:40) Training • Troy went from Detroit to Great Lakes Naval Base in Illinois for boot camp • He was very busy every day and time went by quickly (7:00) 9/11 • His most memorable moments were during his time spent in Afghanistan and Desert Storm • He was on a flight deck working on a turnover when he heard the news of 9/11 • He had previously been deployed in Singapore and near India (9:40) Getting Ready for Afghanistan • The ship was full of many weapons; more than he had seen anywhere in his entire life • He was working on the flight deck of an air craft carrier and saw many missiles launched • He never experienced any combat, but did visit many combat zones (13:05) A World Cruise on the Kitty Hawk • His brother was in the same battle group so they went to the Philippines and Africa together • They were allowed some time on leave and went on a four day safari in Africa (14:50) Showing of pictures • He never lost anyone close, but has many friends that are on their fourth or fifth tour of Iraq • The USS Midway was the first ship that he was on • He traveled to Africa, Australia, Spain, France, Bahrain, the UAE, Korea, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, and the Philippines �• • Most of his medals were earned by “being in the right place at the right time” Others are for doing above and beyond what is expected of you (20:30) Aboard the Ships • The food was not very good; there was not much seasoning because it would be hard to please 5,000 different people • Sometimes he would eat roast beef for three weeks in a row • He was able to email his family and friends often • The ships had phones on them and everyone was given a phone card • Everyone had to start work every day at 6:30am (25:35) Entertainment • The watched movies and TV, listened to the radio, played cards and dominos • There were some USO shows and they were visited by the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders (34:20) Showing of Pictures • He last time was spent on Operation Enduring Freedom • He had been stationed in Japan, Alaska, and California • His highest rank reached was E-6 (35:45) Time After the Service • He still has many dreams about the Navy and believes that they will continue, since it took up 20 years of his life • He now is more safety conscious (51:00) Reading of Retirement Speech (53:35) Showing of Foreign Currency � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Girke, Troy (Interview outline and video), 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Girke, Troy A Description An account of the resource Troy Girke was born in Allegan, Michigan in 1963 and enlisted in the United States Navy in 1983. Troy remained with the Navy for 20 years and traveled to Africa, Australia, Spain, France, Bahrain, UAE, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, and the Philippines. The most memorable moment for Troy was when he heard the news of 9/11. Troy was in the Navy for a significant amount of time and explains the changes that took place within the institution over time. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Timmerman, Austin (Interviewer) Espinoza, Maria Fernanda (Interviewer) First Baptist Church of Otsego (Otsego, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-04-02 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GirkeT Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/263a1c6b8f94698252fde018c5bdac53.m4v 611a350ad95af192b7e46dd526930242 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/02163796e87c12acaf188a0b579b0000.pdf 133e8e919026de44334a8d38399269f0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Gregory Gilmore Length of Interview (00:08:11) Background/Training Served from 1962 until 1968 Volunteered for the draft Basic Training in Fort Knox, Kentucky  Quite stressful, rigorous training physically and mentally  Get through with determination and survival Service (00:00:55) Went down to Fort Lee, Virginia after training Cuban Missile Crisis, deployed to Miami, Florida Quartermaster Corps  Supplied troops and acted as back-up combat unit  Didn’t see combat Food was good Entertainment through writing letters, playing pool and cards, going out to clubs, drinking One of the guys in his unit once tried to make home-made wine, ended up bursting in his locker and spilling into the rooms All Officers were well trained and good men Was happy when his service time ended Hopes no one has to go to war, but sometimes it’s necessary Doesn’t attend reunions All of his training helped prepare him for life; it’s a good experience Stayed in touch with his family via letter and phone calls, family also visited a few times Did some relaxing after being let out of the service �Went back to school only for medical training for the Fire Department Made some good friends in the service but didn’t stay in touch with them for long Worked in a Sport’s goods store for a few years with his father, then worked for the B. F. Goodrich Avionics and Aeronautics Division; retired after 23 years Military is a good base for young men Learn to function under stress � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gilmore, Gregory (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilmore, Gregory Description An account of the resource Gregory Gilmore volunteered for the draft and served from 1962 to 1968. He was deployed to Miami, Florida during the Cuban Missile Crisis as a part of the Quartermaster Corps. He was based in the United States during his time in the service. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fox, Sandra (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army United States. National Guard Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-06-06 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GilmoreG Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8a4e3deb26de009c8a15ec6c99db5cf4.mp4 6dd397f7dbf074e3dead774fe85f93a6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/df6f9c0227fea70eb7f7b70f19dab334.pdf ee1f511bbecd8104a2c9ee3a9b861203 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Denny Gillem Vietnam War (Note: This session covers the material missing from the original interview, mostly dealing with his second tour in Vietnam) Interview Length: (01:48:51:00) Review of West Point / 1st Vietnam Tour (00:01:02:00)  Gillem initially had two years of college with the intention of getting into the military academy at West Point; Gillem eventually succeeded in getting into the academy, on his third attempt (00:01:02:00) o In the four years Gillem was at West Point, he had one elective every year and other than that, all the classes were geared around making he and the other students engineering majors (00:01:12:00) o Gillem’s pervious two years of college only counted for one credit, in American History, which gave him the chance to take another elective (00:01:29:00) o Gillem did fairly well, finishing at the top of the bottom third of his graduating class (00:01:39:00) o More so than the grades, the experience at West Point molded Gillem, which along with high school and college ROTC, helped set the values that Gillem followed and continues to follow (00:01:53:00) o One of Gillem’s tactical officers at the academy helped steer Gillem in the direction of joining the infantry branch of the Army, a direction Gillem had already been considering (00:02:23:00)  Joining the infantry was Gillem’s first choice after graduating from West Point and he was given it (00:02:35:00) o Gillem graduated from West Point in 1964 (00:02:49:00)  After graduation, Gillem received a thirty-day leave before reporting to Fort Benning, Georgia to attend Airborne and Ranger school (00:03:14:00) o Interestingly, in the year Gillem began at Fort Benning and in the following year, the Army decided that all West Point graduates would not attend their branch’s Basic Course (00:03:35:00)  Although there was an Infantry Officer Basic Course that all the other officers went to, Gillem and the other West Point graduates in the infantry for those two years did not (00:03:46:00)  Instead, the West Pointers were required to attend OJT, part of which was a mandatory period in Ranger school (00:03:51:00)  OJT did not bother Gillem but the officers who had gone into the other branches, such as the Signals Corps or Air Defense Artillery did not like it as much (00:04:14:00)  The Ranger school headquarters was located at Fort Benning and that was where the first three weeks of the Ranger training took place; after the three weeks at Fort Benning, the men went to Dahlonega, Georgia for the �  mountain phase of the training, which lasted an additional three weeks, then spent the final three weeks training in the swamps surrounding Eglin Air Force Base in Florida (00:04:39:00) o During the four years Gillem was at West Point, he never saw Army beat Navy in their annual football game; however, the first year after he graduated, Gillem was in the swamp-training phase of Ranger school and on the day before the game, the men had gone through several days of long, wet patrols (00:05:01:00)  The men were trucked onto the base late at night and after cleaning their equipment, they all went to bed (00:05:35:00)  The following day was the Army – Navy game and although Gillem made it into the day room to watch the game, he slept through most of it; however, it was the first time he saw Army beat Navy (00:05:43:00) Gillem graduated from Ranger school just before Christmas, 1964 and received some leave time before reporting to Fort Carson, Colorado to join 2nd Battalion, 11th Infantry Regiment as a platoon leader (00:06:17:00) o The 11th Infantry was mechanized infantry and although Gillem did not know too much about mechanized infantry, it was an easy subject to learn if an officer had a platoon sergeant who was willing to teach them (00:06:33:00)  Gillem himself had an incredible platoon sergeant, a man who had been in the Army since the end of World War II, was captured during the Korean War and held for about a year, and after being released at the end of the war, decided to get out of the Army (00:06:42:00)  The sergeant left the Army, found a civilian job, and got married but after two years of being a civilian, he decided civilian life was not for him and when he told his wife, she told him to go and that she would be waiting for him to return (00:07:05:00)  The sergeant re-enlisted but the Army brought him back as a private; he had worked his way up to sergeant by the time Gillem was assigned to be the platoon leader (00:07:21:00)  Gillem got as good a training as a second lieutenant could receive from the sergeant (00:07:48:00)  The pressure on Gillem and the other lieutenants to perform their job properly, having gone through all the training they had, as tremendous; although some lieutenants failed to heed their sergeant’s advice or received bad advice, the majority of the lieutenants grew in large part to the advice they received from their sergeants (00:08:16:00) The first large contingent of US Army ground forces, not just advisors, arrived in Vietnam in June but even before they arrived, Gillem had volunteered in May for assignment to Vietnam, as an advisor (00:09:20:00) o Although his request for assignment as an advisor was denied, the following month, Gillem received orders for assignment to Vietnam (00:09:43:00)  By then, the Army had decided to deploy three brigades, the 173rd Airborne Brigade, the 1st Brigade of the 101st Airborne Division, and the 2nd Brigade of the 1st Infantry Division, and Gillem was the first officer replacement sent to the 1st Infantry (00:09:46:00) �o When he received his orders for Vietnam, Gillem was told to report to Travis Air Force Base in California, where he boarded a transport plane for the flight over to Vietnam (00:10:04:00)  When Gillem got off the plane in Vietnam, he had no idea where he was going or what he was going to be doing (00:10:14:00) o During the tour, the fighting in the area where Gillem was assigned was not overly intense, usually fighting against small units or individuals; nevertheless, it was still scary the first time a bullet flew past Gillem (00:10:40:00) o It was very common to rotate officers between combat and non-combat units, both so that the officers in the non-combat units could eventually gain some combat experience and to ensure that there were always experienced, combattested officers in the various units (00:11:11:00)  Routinely, an officer would start in the field in a combat unit then rotate into the non-combat unit (00:11:21:00)  In Gillem’s particular case, his company commander, a fellow West Pointer, was selected to be the aide for the division’s newly-arrived commanding general (00:11:31:00)  Gillem kept in touch with the captain and several months after the captain moved to be the commanding general’s aide, the captain told Gillem that there was a new one-star general arriving in the division and Gillem asked of there was any chance he might have a shot at the new general’s aide position (00:12:01:00)  Ultimately, Gillem received the aide position for the new general; although Gillem does not know or remember exactly how he received the position, part of it came from the fact the general wanted a West Pointer as his aide (00:12:32:00)  When he first took the aide position, Gillem had no clue what he would eventually be exposed to by working with the newly-arrived general (00:13:34:00) o If given the choice at the time of his rotation to the aide position, Gillem would have preferred to stay in the field, but only as a platoon leader or company commander (00:14:07:00)  However, the probability was higher that Gillem would end up working on an officer’s staff (00:14:13:00)  Gillem was a good platoon leader; he liked the soldiers in the platoon and they liked him back (00:14:21:00)  Throughout the platoon, Gillem remembers that all the NCOs were one rank too junior for their position; the platoon sergeant was an E-6 although the position was supposed to be an E-7, the squad leaders were E-5s, which as an E-6 position, etc. (00:14:45:00)  When the 1st Infantry was told they were deploying a brigade to Vietnam, the commanders combed through all three brigades in the division to make a single brigade where all the officers and NCOs were the correct rank (00:15:05:00) o Gillem’s initial platoon sergeant was an experienced E-7 but the sergeant was eventually promoted to a different � position and an E-6 already in the platoon was given the platoon sergeant position (00:15:24:00) o For the most part, the sergeants in Gillem’s platoon were all experienced, having been in the Army for several years and been in combat for several months before Gillem arrived (00:15:35:00)  At the time, rank promotion was extremely slow and when Gillem was told he would be receiving a sergeant’s promotion to give to a soldier, he had to decide which soldier to give it to (00:16:42:00) o After thinking about the decision, Gillem decided to give the promotion to a soldier from Chicago who had shown immense courage under fire (00:16:51:00) o When Gillem talked with the other sergeants about the decision, one of the squad leaders advocated for a soldier in his squad, reminding Gillem of some of the trouble the original selection had been in (00:17:02:00) o Gillem relented and promoted the second soldier, who, although he was qualified for the promotion, had not shown the courage under fire the other soldier had (00:17:17:00) o At the time, the war was not expected to take long and part of the question was whether they wanted the soldier to be a sergeant during peace time (00:17:38:00) Gillem’s first tour in Vietnam ended in October 1966, after which, he returned to the United States (00:18:47:00) o Just before Gillem deployed to Vietnam in 1965, he had become engaged and when he returned home in 1966, he got married (00:19:02:00)  The biggest problem Gillem faced once he was home was that when he had deployed to Vietnam, he was a 2nd lieutenant and when he returned home, he was only a couple of months away from promotion to captain; during his wedding, Gillem had planned on wearing his dress uniform but only had the insignia for a 2nd lieutenant (00:19:28:00)  Gillem did not want to buy the 1st lieutenant insignia to only wear once, so before the wedding, someone suggested taking model airplane paint and painting the 2nd lieutenant insignia silver to look like a 1st lieutenant insignia (00:19:47:00) o While Gillem was in Vietnam, his original assignment when he came home was to join the “Old Guard”, the 3rd Infantry Regiment stationed at Fort Myer, Virginia (00:20:47:00)  However, around that time, the Army was beginning to accelerate promotions and by that time, Gillem had spent a year in-grade as a 1st lieutenant; whereas it normally took three years in-grade for promotion from 1st lieutenant to captain, Gillem would receive the promotion in thirteen months (00:21:03:00)  At that time, the 3rd Infantry was not in need of captains but lieutenants, so when Gillem arrived at his fiancée’s house, which he had listed as his �leave address, there were orders sending him to the 101st Airborne Division (00:21:23:00)  Although he was a little disappointed not to be going to the 3rd Infantry, Gillem was not too disappointed (00:21:37:00) 101st Airborne Division / 1967 Detroit riots (00:21:57:00)  After Gillem and his wife married, they took a short honeymoon before packing a trailer with all the gifts they had received from their wedding and heading to Fort Campbell, Kentucky, where the 101st Airborne was stationed (00:21:57:00) o When they arrived at the base, Gillem was delighted to find out he was in line to become a rifle company commander (00:22:13:00)  Initially, he was made the rifle company executive officer for several months before receiving the promotion to company commander after the previous company commander moved to the battalion staff (00:22:16:00)  Gillem was given command of C Company, 2nd Battalion, 501st Infantry Regiment, 2nd Brigade, 101st Airborne Division (00:22:31:00) o When Gillem first arrived at the base, he went through a reception center, where he was told which unit he would be assigned to (00:23:01:00)  Someone from the 2nd Brigade picked up Gillem and took him to the 2nd Battalion, where someone else took him to C Company (00:23:09:00)  The entire series of events was very casual and Gillem felt accepted immediately in the unit (00:23:14:00)  At the time, there were not very many personnel who had combat experience and the fact Gillem was joining the unit with combat experience made him quite welcome (00:23:30:00)  Gillem was extremely excited to take command of an airborne rifle company (00:23:41:00) o Gillem and his wife slowly settled into the area, finding an apartment for four or five months until they received housing on the base (00:23:54:00) o Fort Campbell was right on the southern border of Kentucky; the northern half of the base is in Kentucky and the southern half is in Tennessee (00:24:04:00)  The base was located in a nice area but it was very rural, with the largest settlement, Clarksville, being five miles away in Tennessee (00:24:42:00) o Gillem reported to the base in December 1966, just before Christmas (00:24:45:00) o When Gillem first arrived at the division, there was not any expectation that the brigade would eventually deploy to Vietnam; although a brigade from the 101st Airborne was already deployed to Vietnam, the remainder of the division had no deployment expectations (00:24:59:00) o When Gillem took command of his company, the draft was going on but soldiers had to volunteer to join the airborne (00:25:14:00)  Therefore, all of the soldiers in Gillem’s were young volunteers who were full of adrenaline; on occasion, the soldiers would get in trouble and Gillem would have to take care of the problem but on the whole, the soldiers trained hard (00:25:26:00)  The company had a pretty solid mix of ethnicities (00:25:48:00) � The original company first sergeant was a black man and was on sick leave when Gillem arrived to take over command of the company (00:25:51:00) o While the first sergeant was on sick leave, Gillem worked with the acting first sergeant, a platoon sergeant from one of the platoons in the company (00:26:07:00) o After Gillem had been with the company for about a month, the original first sergeant returned to the company and left two impressions on Gillem (00:26:17:00)  First, the sergeant was in incredible shape to begin with and second, when the company went out for its morning run, the sergeant ran circles around the rest of the company for the entire run (00:26:25:00)  There was a tremendous mix of soldiers in the company, with ethnicities range from black and white to Hispanic and homes in both the North and the South (00:26:43:00) o One of both the positives and negatives of the Army is that the soldiers were treated like who they were (00:27:05:00) o The soldiers were able to, for the most part, look past any differences and work well together (00:27:27:00) o Gillem was not aware of any problems in the company based on race, let alone, the division (00:27:35:00) o The ethnic diversity amongst the soldiers continued up and down the entire chain of command, with both the battalion executive officer and the captain who Gillem took over for being black men (00:27:49:00)  Gillem remembers when the original first sergeant returned to the company, he addressed the other men and said that now that Gillem was in charge, the men had two options for haircuts, a black sidewall or a white sidewall (00:27:59:00)  In some ways, the situation in the company was an ideal situation for Gillem when he took command (00:28:45:00)  Although the company did not have all the ranks they would have wanted, regarding the NCOs, most of the soldiers were at their correct rank and most had not been rush promoted to those ranks, which would happen later (00:28:47:00)  Normally, if a draftee volunteered for the airborne, the company would only see the man for eighteen months, only after he had finished all his training, and he would normally leave as a PFC (Private, First Class) (00:29:12:00)  The promotion and experience system was one that worked well and one that Gillem liked to see (00:29:27:00) o Although not a training company, Gillem’s company went through training constantly (00:29:44:00) � One of the benefits Gillem earned from his time as an aide was he realized what available to him (00:29:48:00)  During his first couple of weeks in command of the company, Gillem was traveling around to find the different areas on the base and when he wanted to see the base’s maneuver area, he requested a helicopter (00:29:55:00) o Had Gillem not been an aide, it would have never occurred to him to request a helicopter (00:30:06:00) o By using the helicopter, Gillem had a chance to see the entire maneuver area from the air (00:30:13:00)  During training, Gillem would send the soldiers out as individual platoons, although they would also go as an entire company and sometimes, as an entire battalion (00:30:21:00)  During the training, Gillem integrated his experiences from serving in Vietnam (00:31:00:00) o At this time, the 101st Airborne and its sister division, the 82nd Airborne, were still airborne units (trained to make parachute landings, as opposed to airmobile units, which moved by helicopter) and were the strategic reserve for the Army (00:31:08:00)  At least one unit within one of the divisions was always on stand-by, ready to go if needed; typically, it was a battalion that would be ready to go in twenty-four hours and a company ready to go in three hours (00:31:19:00)  Gillem’s company pulled its fair share of this rotation, which meant they had to stay on somewhat higher alert level in the event that they did have to deploy to a location (00:31:33:00)  The concept of being airmobile was just one mission that the divisions could potentially perform (00:31:54:00)  Around the time Gillem was going through Ranger school was when the Army first developed the concept of the airmobile force, which eventually became the 1st Air Cavalry Division (00:32:03:00)  Although the 101st had more helicopters than conventional aircraft when Gillem arrived, airmobile was just one mission the division could do; the soldiers in the division still had the traditional role of jumping out of airplanes (00:32:16:00)  Jumping out of the airplanes was good for Gillem; he was afraid of heights and jumping out of the airplanes was one of the ways he overcame that fears (00:32:28:00)  Whenever Gillem’s company was on stand-by and received an alert, the soldiers would line up on the parade ground with their equipment then head to the parachute building; however, if the parachute building was locked up, the soldiers knew it was a drill (00:32:48:00)  At one point, the division received a new commanding general and during one of the “drills”, the men were sleeping in their trucks when the general came down and started yelling at them, saying they should be training or cleaning their rifles (00:33:01:00) � o Gillem’s battalion commander got in the general’s face and said that the men would not be there if their rifles were not ready to go and that soldiers in a combat situation did not know when they would be sleeping next, so they should be sleeping (00:33:30:00) o Gillem had been standing about six feet away from the conversation and he thought he was going to die; he never thought anyone would talk to a general like that but in the end, it worked (00:33:43:00) The one time the company did deploy from an alert was to attend to the 1967 Detroit riots (00:34:04:00)  The deployment happened less than a month after a new battalion commander had taken command (00:34:10:00)  Usually, one Friday morning every month, the battalion had command reveille, where the soldiers would stand in formation an hour early and the commanders would go through announcements and promotions within the unit (00:34:18:00)  On the Friday before that month’s normal command reveille, Gillem received a phone call early in the morning saying that he needed to report in (00:34:32:00) o Gillem figured the call was from the new battalion commander, mistaking alert for something else, so Gillem made a mental note to chew the battalion commander out for making the mistake (00:34:44:00)  Gillem packed up his gear and when he arrived in, he saw that the battalion commander had not made a mistake; the brigade had been selected to go into Detroit to deal with the riots (00:34:59:00)  The men in the company had no idea what they were going to be doing; a fourth of the men had combat experience from Vietnam and for a couple of the older soldiers, Korea (00:35:14:00)  The brigade loaded onto C-130 transports and flew to Selfridge Air National Guard base outside of Detroit (00:35:35:00) o When the brigade got off the C-130, the base personnel did not know what to do with them, so the soldiers dug in at the base, something Gillem figures the Air Force was not too happy about (00:35:45:00)  After awhile, the men eventually boarded Michigan National Guard trucks to be moved into Detroit (00:36:04:00)  Up until that point, the soldiers had yet to see an angry, riotous person or hear of anything that was out of place (00:36:14:00) o As the soldiers rode in the trucks through the city, it was like a normal trip through any city (00:36:27:00)  The soldiers were eventually placed in a junior high school and moved into various classrooms (00:36:34:00) �      Once the soldiers had settled in, Gillem was given the job of starting combat patrols around the neighborhood to see what was going on (00:36:57:00) o Gillem had re-enforced rifle platoons equipped with flak jackets, fixed bayonets, and loaded weapons going through the neighborhood (00:37:05:00) The majority of the rioting was occurring in downtown Detroit and was spreading in two directions; the brigade was stationed where the two directions intersected, although there had not been any rioting within the immediate area (00:37:13:00) o The residents were so happy to see the soldiers that Gillem’s biggest problem was all the people trying to bring the soldiers food and girls wanting to flirt with his soldiers (00:37:30:00) o The patrols would be moving down the street, ready for an attack, and people would be smiling, waving, honking their car horns, offering food, etc. (00:37:42:00) o It became clear to the soldiers that they were not in too much danger (00:37:53:00) One of the challenges was the men had been advised that the enemy was going to try and poison them (00:38:09:00) o Therefore, although the locals were bringing the soldiers a host of different food, the soldiers could not accept any of it and were forced to eat C-Rations (00:38:21:00) The biggest problem Gillem had was that whenever the soldiers were not on duty, they would be standing next to the fence surrounding the school’s playground three-deep and on the outside of the fence were girls five-deep (00:38:48:00) o Although it made for happy soldiers, it was difficult for Gillem to control the situation; however, he did not bemoan having to do it (00:39:07:00) One night, Gillem was sleeping when someone grabbed him and told him to get to the operations center because there was information that the rioters were going to attack a power station and the soldiers needed to get there (00:39:26:00) o Gillem threw a couple of platoons in some trucks, got in a jeep himself, and went to the power station, only to find the National Guard had already been at the power station for a month (00:39:40:00) o However, the National Guard soldiers thought Gillem’s force was relieving them and left (00:39:51:00) Fairly regularly, Gillem would send fire teams of five or six soldiers with fire trucks and those soldiers often encountered rioters (00:40:08:00) � o In the two weeks that the brigade was in Detroit, Gillem himself never saw an angry person, or at least, a person who was angry at Gillem (00:40:08:00) o For the most part, Gillem’s soldiers did not confront rioters; the National Guard soldiers did encounter rioters and Gillem’s soldiers assisted them by taking over guard positions and allow the National Guard soldiers to focus on dealing with the rioters (00:41:01:00)  The worst thing Gillem did was court-martial a couple of soldiers who either lived in the area or had a girlfriend in the area and left the school; when the soldiers returned after a day, Gillem courtmartialed them, which he did not like having to do (00:41:22:00)  Once the National Guard had the situation under control, the brigade mounted back up and returned to Fort Campbell (00:41:44:00)  Before they deployed to Detroit, the soldiers had not received much in the way of crowd-control training, apart from a few drills (00:41:59:00)  While in Detroit, the soldiers followed the rule that only an officer could authorize them to shoot; the rule somewhat worried Gillem when he sent out the fire teams with the fire trucks because they were only commanded by a sergeant (00:42:09:00) The brigade deployed to Detroit in August 1967 and after the brigade had returned to Fort Campbell, rumors started swirling that the remainder of the division would soon be deploying to Vietnam (00:42:44:00) o Roughly another month passed before the soldiers were formally told that they would be deploying to Vietnam (00:43:01:00) o At the time, the Army had a policy that officers could be required to serve a second tour in Vietnam but enlisted personnel did not (00:43:08:00)  Therefore, all the enlisted personnel who had already served a tour in Vietnam and did not want to go for a second tour were transferred to the 82nd Airborne and all the personnel in the 82nd who had not served in Vietnam transferred to the 101st as fillers (00:43:19:00)  However, the division was still understrength, so the Army did a search and found every airborne-qualified enlisted man in the Army who had not yet served in Vietnam and transferred them to the 101st (00:43:34:00)  The new personnel ranged from satellite communicators to bulldozer repairmen (00:43:46:00)  Gillem’s company received twenty-five replacements, after which the replacements went into the field for three weeks for infantry training (00:43:55:00)  For the most part, the attitude of the replacements was shock (00:44:12:00)  At one point, the 173rd Airborne got into a large fight in Vietnam and took a large number of casualties (00:44:28:00) o The 101st was the only source of airborne-qualified soldiers, so every company in the division had to give up a sergeant and four privates (00:44:36:00) � Gillem personally did not send his best soldiers to the 173rd and as a whole, the removal of the replacements for the 173rd helped the 101st shake off some of the lower grade soldiers (00:44:49:00) o Prior to the entire division deploying, advanced parties were sent over by ship carrying the division’s supplies (00:45:10:00)  Gillem sent one officer and a dozen enlisted men as his company’s advanced party and they left roughly four weeks before the remainder of the company (00:45:18:00) o During the last 48 hours before the deployment, all the soldiers in the division were confined to the base (00:45:42:00)  Gillem’s executive officer lived off the base, so Gillem and his wife offered to let the executive officer and his wife use the guest bedroom in the Gillem’s house on base (00:45:47:00) o When the day to deploy finally came, the soldiers boarded C-141 transports and left for Vietnam (00:45:55:00)  The division commander had told the soldiers that when they got off the plane, they would all have loaded weapons; however, the Air Force policy forbid this (00:46:03:00)  There was some negotiating and it was eventually worked out that at the last moments before the soldiers got off the plane, they were issued loaded magazines (00:46:27:00)  Each soldier placed the magazine in his weapon but did not chamber a round (00:46:42:00)  There was some equipment with the soldiers on the flight and some of the planes were carrying only equipment (00:47:11:00)  The division had pre-shipped a lot of the equipment and a lot of equipment, such as 106mm recoilless anti-tank rifles, was left behind at Fort Campbell (00:47:28:00)  From what Gillem can remember, the planes made three stops total from Fort Campbell to Vietnam (00:47:53:00)  For sure, the planes stopped on the west coast of the United States, on Hawaii, and one other place (00:47:57:00) 2nd Vietnam Tour (00:48:08:00)  The planes landed at Bien Hoa Air Force base in Vietnam, an area Gillem knew from his first tour in Vietnam (00:48:08:00) o When the planes landed at Bien Hoa, there were trucks already waiting to pick up the soldiers (00:48:16:00) o Most replacements came through Bien Hoa and most of the personnel working on the base were not thrilled with the idea of the soldiers carrying around loaded weapons on the flight line (00:48:21:00)  However, although he might ridicule the decision, Gillem believes carrying the weapons was a good thing because carrying the weapons helped set the attitude of the soldiers (00:48:40:00) �   The soldiers spent the night at Bien Hoa and the next day, moved to an already established base camp; the division briefly stayed at the base before moving to Cu Chi, where it stayed for several weeks (00:48:52:00) o Once the division settled in a Cu Chi, the soldiers began running operations and it became apparent then that something was going on with the enemy (00:49:21:00) The division arrived in Vietnam a handful of days before Christmas 1967 (00:49:33:00) When the Tet Offensive happened at the end of January 1968, it did not catch everyone by surprise (00:49:48:00) o Prior to the actual offensive, there had been indications of trouble in I Corps, in the northern part of the South Vietnam (00:49:52:00) o Then, one day, the entire 2nd Brigade was flown to LZ El Paso, which later became known as Camp Eagle, just outside of Hue (00:50:00:00) o Once the brigade arrived at El Paso, they set up the position and had just begun operations when the Tet ceasefire occurred; when the ceasefire happened, the soldiers were told they to stay in their barracks and get some rest (00:50:20:00)  However, when the battalion S-2 was circling around Hue in a helicopter, he ended up taking fire and was nearly shot down; however, nobody could figure out why there was enemy fire from Hue (00:50:36:00)  As it turned out, the North Vietnamese had successfully taken control of Hue, which the soldiers did not know (00:50:52:00) o All of a sudden, it was a whole new ballgame and the offensive consisted of some of the most intense fighting Gillem had ever seen (00:50:57:00)  When the offensive started, the Marines were responsible for I Corps and in the areas where they did control, the Marines had control; however, they could not be everywhere and the North Vietnamese had figured out where the Marines were located and where they were not (00:51:10:00)  There was a large area filled with trees, bamboo, and undergrowth about a mile-and-a-half north of Hue along the main highway and the enemy had been occupied that particular area so long that they had set up, amongst other things, a fully-functioning OCS (Officer Candidate School) for Viet Cong personnel (00:51:27:00) o The 101st eventually had to fight its way into the area and it was amazing what they ran into (00:52:14:00) o During the offensive, Gillem’s battalion had the job of fighting up to the walls surrounding Hue (00:52:29:00)  During the advance, the battalion fought its way into a small Vietnamese village; however, it got real quiet as the soldiers entered the village (00:52:35:00)  In one respect, the quiet was normal because the enemy had withdrawn but it was normally not that quiet (00:52:42:00)  Once the soldiers advanced enough into the village, they saw that the entire population of the village, men, women, and children, had been stood against a couple of walls and were shot (00:52:50:00)  Seeing the dead villagers was an incredible shock for the soldiers; however, because they were in pursuit of the enemy and could not �   stop, the only thing Gillem could do was have his medic check to make sure all the villagers were actually dead (00:53:11:00) Another time, the battalion had to attack across a field in a traditional, World War II-era, battalion-sized attack (00:53:23:00)  The soldiers had advanced across most of the field before the enemy began firing on them (00:53:37:00)  At one point during the attack, a platoon sergeant in the other company that was attacking with Gillem’s company was hit in his private parts by a dummy rifle grenade (00:53:50:00) o The sergeant was in pain on the ground and the giggle that passed through the assault line was incredible (00:54:24:00)  In the end, the attack was successful, with the battalion advancing across the field and successfully sweeping out the enemy (00:54:56:00) o The enemy gunfire was not terribly accurate and Gillem believes once the enemy saw the strength of the attack, they pulled back, although plenty were still left (00:55:02:00) Once they had secured the area, the soldiers began patrolling and found out the enemy had a large number of spider holes in the area, with men in them who were ready to fight (00:55:22:00)  Gillem lost several soldiers by shots that no one could identify where it came from (00:55:38:00)  One time, one soldier was hit and the other soldiers began firing at the tree tops, figuring it was a sniper, when in fact, the enemy shooter was in a spider hole (00:55:44:00)  It rained that heavily that night and Gillem remembers coming under rocket fire (00:55:57:00) o As it turned out, the place where the battalion had dug in was a place where a previous unit had already been dug in (00:56:13:00)  All of the sudden, Gillem heard the sound of a rocket coming in, then a “slurping” sound; the rocket had landed in a mud-filled trench and instead of going off, slid down the trench (00:56:24:00)  Gillem called the dud rocket into battalion headquarters and was asked to measure the size of the rocket; Gillem sarcastically replied asked if the person wanted him to get out of his trench under incoming fire, find the rocket, use a flash-flight, and measure the rocket (00:56:48:00) o When the person said they did, Gillem told them “no” (00:57:16:00) After the battalion frontal attack, Gillem’s company lost around eight or ten soldiers out of the one hundred soldiers in the company (00:57:40:00)  One of the soldiers as a black sergeant with a distinctive part of white on his hands (00:57:51:00) � o Gillem remembers walking past where the medics had established a “morgue” for the dead bodies waiting to be transferred out and see the hand of the sergeant sticking out from a poncho (00:58:03:00) o From the beginning of the advance towards Hue until the soldiers set up their position was the better part of a week (00:58:49:00)  As the battalion got closer to the wall, the fighting became less intense with only an occasional sniper, so that by the final day, it was pretty mundane (00:59:22:00)  During that time, the men also received a resupply, including a copy of the Stars & Stripes newspaper, in which the headline read Marines Retake Hue (00:59:32:00) Once Gillem’s battalion finished fighting around Hue, they were moved through a series of fire bases to the north of Hue, where they began running combat operations (01:00:10:00) o Ultimately, the battalion ended up at Camp Evans, which was a base that originally had been established by the Marines (01:00:22:00)  Camp Evans was already quite full when the decision was made to move the battalion there, so the battalion was forced to set up their position on the outside of the camp (01:00:39:00)  Just outside the camp was the camp trash dump and someone decided the battalion would set up a perimeter around the trash dump (01:00:52:00)  Having the perimeter around the trash dump was interesting because the soldiers found more supplies in the trash dump than through their own re-supply system (01:00:58:00) o The men managed to find supplies such as rain suits and slings for rifles (01:01:06:00) o Gillem’s first sergeant always had a crew searching through the dump to find anything useful that the previous units at Camp Evans might have thrown away (01:01:18:00) o One day, a helicopter from the base flew out and found a supply ship that was supposed to dock in Hue but could not because of the fighting still happening within the city (01:01:25:00)  The ship was refrigerated and had sailed from the United States carrying fresh steaks (01:01:42:00)  The helicopter landed on the deck and the crew of the re-supply ship, not know what to do regarding the situation in Hue, gave the pilot as many steaks as he wanted (01:01:46:00)  Once the pilot returned, for one day, all the men ate during the three meals was steak (01:02:03:00) o The fighting the soldiers encountered whenever they went out from Camp Evans was wildly intense (01:02:32:00)  For awhile, there would be nothing then the men would receive orders to patrol near a hill that the enemy was known to occupy; sometimes, the soldiers would patrol near the hill and find nothing and other times, they patrolled and find the enemy (01:02:38:00) �o One day, Gillem’s company had just come in from the field, which meant the soldiers had the day off (01:03:02:00)  Gillem was in the battalion operations center when someone noticed that one of the companies in the field was not moving very fast (01:03:09:00)  Someone called out to the company to see why the company was not moving very fast and they were told that the entire company had diarrhea (01:03:22:00) o Because Camp Evans was closer to the DMZ, Gillem’s company was now facing off with North Vietnamese regulars (01:03:55:00)  Usually, the soldiers did not see the NVA, although there was one time when the company was working along a river and managed to flush a large contingent of NVA troops into the open (01:04:02:00)  The next day, the company was working along a different river and was often the case, there were irrigation ditches running perpendicular to the river; at one point, there was a large irrigation ditch with a town on the other side (01:04:22:00)  As the company approached the irrigation ditch, it came under intense enemy gunfire (01:04:41:00)  Fortunately, Gillem managed to get either Air Force or Marine Corps air cover to attack the enemy but the soldiers still had to advance through the town (01:04:45:00)  Gillem managed to get a squad across a small land bridge but the squad was taking a large amount a enemy gunfire that they were starting to take casualties (01:04:51:00) o One of the soldiers was wounded so badly that the others did not know if they could move him; Gillem ended up sacrificing his one item of comfort, an air mattress, because he inflated the air mattress, placed the injured soldier on it and floated the soldier down to the river to a spot where he could be safely medi-vaced out (01:05:12:00)  Ultimately, the company fought its way into the town with assistance from the air strikes (01:05:37:00)  There were a lot of people in the town and all through all of them claimed to be just residents, some of them obviously were not (01:05:45:00) o The soldiers managed to identify one man who was clearly being non-cooperative (01:05:55:00)  The company had a Vietnamese interpreter handling the interrogations (01:06:14:00)  Gillem wanted to advance the company into the next village and wanted to know what the man knew, so he walked up next to the man, said “fire in the hole” and shot a .45 caliber round into the ground next to the man’s foot (01:06:20:00)  Although Gillem intentionally missed the foot, the man immediately started talking (01:06:38:00) �   Gillem was annoyed that he needed information about the area and the man had it but withheld it while still claiming to be a friendly (01:06:52:00)  Once the company had the information, they advanced into the next village and did encounter a large firefight (01:07:12:00)  After the fighting near the river, nothing really happened with the company and one day, the company was operating near a river and all the men stunk, so Gillem told have the men to take off their equipment and go swimming in the river (01:07:18:00) The morale amongst the soldiers in the company was pretty good (01:07:51:00) o The one thing that Gillem noticed was whenever the company was in the field, moral was good; problems happened whenever the company was stationed on a base, with knowledge that the base had never been hit by the enemy, yet the soldiers still had to be alert (01:07:54:00)  Gillem rarely had issues in his company to begin with because the company rarely spent extended amounts of time stationed on bases (01:08:11:00)  Whenever the company was on a base, it was often a fire base that had been hit at some point, so the soldiers knew there was the possibility it could happen again (01:08:17:00) One of the last operations Gillem took part in during the tour was when the battalion was flown to a location next to the South China Sea and ordered to advance into the mountains (01:08:44:00) o The enemy was really well dug-in on certain mountains but for the soldiers, it was difficult for themselves to dig in because the mountains did not have the best soil for digging in (01:08:56:00) o One night, Gillem’s company was occupying a ridge top and there was so much enemy activity below them that the soldiers were shooting through all their ammunition (01:09:21:00)  The company was taking a lot of enemy gunfire but most of it was not overly accurate (01:09:38:00)  At one point, Gillem had a C-123 gunship circling overheard, spraying the entire area for a couple of hours (01:09:46:00)  The next day, there was nobody below the ridge line and the next night, it was like the first night; however, the soldiers started taking casualties during the second night (01:09:58:00)  During the second night, helicopters were constantly flying in, both the resupply the soldiers and to carry out any wounded (01:10:10:00)  At one point, Gillem carried a wounded soldier onto a helicopter and he was just turning to walk back to his command post when someone else was running past and hit him; Gillem had played football but nobody had ever hit him that hard (01:10:17:00)  The next day, Gillem himself needed evacuation because he could not feel much below his hips (01:10:43:00) Division G-3 / End of Tour (01:10:43:00) � When Gillem was evacuated, he had been in command of the company for one year at Fort Campbell and four months in Vietnam and the Army decided that was long enough for him and moved a replacement captain to the unit (01:11:06:00) o Ultimately, the decision was made to move Gillem to the division level; however, Gillem did not need to report to the division for a couple of weeks, so when his battalion was attached to another brigade, Gillem was sent to the other brigade as a liaison officer for the two weeks (01:11:26:00)  The other brigade was fighting in one of the valleys leading into Hue and was having a tremendous amount of contact with the enemy (01:11:59:00)  Gillem remembers the brigade commander talking with the division commander on the radio, giving the division commander an update on the situation (01:12:11:00)  The division commander asked about how many enemy had been killed and when the brigade commander said it was a small number, the division commander said the number was not good enough and the brigade should have killed more (01:12:55:00)  The brigade commander sardonically asked how many enemy should be dead and when the division commander gave him a figure, the brigade commander said that was how many enemy soldiers were dead (01:13:10:00)  The exchange between the two commanders shocked Gillem (01:13:24:00) o Once the two weeks passed, Gillem reported to the division’s G-3 section to be the night duty officer (01:13:40:00) o About a month after Gillem moved to the G-3, the division’s commanding general was relieved and another general was brought in; the new general happened to be the other assistant division commander when Gillem had served as an aide to the general during his first tour in Vietnam (01:13:57:00)  When the new commanding general arrived, he address the division staff and said although there were rumors that some of the reports regarding enemy activity were false, if the rumors were true, then they were going to fix the problems (01:14:22:00)  Because Gillem was the night duty officer, three-quarters of the time, he had nothing to do, so he was given the job of reviewing the reports by the G-3 (01:14:32:00)  As part of the review, Gillem had to contact officers who had since left the various units to make sure the information in the official reports were accurate (01:14:40:00)  Gillem had never been prouder than re-reading the reports to make sure they were accurate (01:14:50:00)  He re-read reports of battles that he had fought in and founds those numbers were padded as well (01:14:56:00) o When Gillem was a company commander, if his company was involved in fighting, he would report to his battalion, the battalion would report the battle to the brigade and the brigade would report the battle to the division (01:16:30:00) �o Once he was with the G-3, Gillem’s job was to keep track of all the action going on in the division’s area for the entire night (01:16:41:00)  Sometimes, there was fighting going on and sometimes, there was not any fighting going on (01:16:53:00) o One of the funnier stories Gillem heard was when the division received a new aviation officer, an officer who had come from being a senior general’s personal pilot (01:17:06:00)  At some point, the general decided that since he was flying so much, he would get his own pilot wings and fly himself around; however, the condition was that the general could fly, so long as he flew with an instructor/pilot at all times (01:17:22:00)  One day, the instructor/pilot showed up and found the general already waiting in the airplane; although he assumed the general had gone through the pre-flight preparation, the instructor/pilot went through pre-flight preparation anyway (01:17:45:00)  As the instructor/pilot went through the pre-flight preparation, the general said there was something wrong with the pedals of the airplane (01:17:58:00)  The instructor/pilot told the general to take both his feet off the pedals, the press down only one, which caused the pedal to move perfectly fine (01:18:14:00) o For the most part, Gillem’s job was keeping track of all the information and making sure that everything was up-to-date (01:18:41:00)  In the morning, Gillem would brief the day shift to report to the general about what, if anything, had happened during the night and what any specific units had planned for the next day (01:18:46:00)  Because he worked during the night and had the days off, whenever an officer needed to be sent somewhere, Gillem was often the officer chosen to be sent off to do liaison work (01:19:05:00) o Gillem remembers that the base would occasionally take enemy rocket fire; however, the enemy rocket fire happened infrequently and was not very intense to begin with (01:19:27:00)  One time, Gillem was walking out of his barracks when a jeep went roaring past; Gillem yelled at them to slow down but when he later found out the crew was taking a soldier injured in a rocket attack to the aid station, he went and apologized (01:19:38:00) o When he was an aide, Gillem remembers watching the process of the division from the general’s perspective; once he started working in the G-3, he got the perspective of the workers at the division level (01:20:07:00) o At the time Gillem was with the division, there were five major subordinate commands in the division: the three infantry brigades, division artillery, and a support command (01:20:52:00)  However, the support command was normally medevacing soldiers or delivering supplies and the artillery was often working with the infantry brigades, so for the most part, Gillem only needed to worry about the three infantry brigades (01:20:59:00) � Typically, Gillem would interact with the brigade-level operations officer and did not bother talking with officers from the company- or battalionlevel (01:21:06:00)  The brigades rarely moved and when they did move, the division knew exactly where they were, so Gillem did not have much problem maintain communication with the brigades’ operations officers (01:21:19:00)  For the most part, if the information was unavailable, Gillem would report it as such, such as saying the brigade did not know what was happening or a battalion had yet to report in their current situation (01:21:26:00)  When Gillem was doing the numbers corrections in the after-action reports, that was when he interacted with officers at the company- and battalion-level (01:21:41:00)  One thing that the operations was absolutely forbidden to do was interfere with communications (01:21:46:00)  When Gillem was serving as an aide, whenever there was fighting, the general was always flying over the battle (01:23:14:00) o At those times, Gillem’s job was to keep the radio lines open in case the general needed to talk with someone; however, he cannot recall the general directly talking with company and platoon leaders on the ground below him, although he is not sure it did not happen (01:23:26:00) o This when Gillem acted as a liaison officer were times such as when another division would be working with the 101st and there needed to be direct interaction between both division staffs (01:24:04:00)  Other times, as would often happen, another brigade was assigned to the division and someone needed to interact face-to-face with the other brigade’s staff (01:24:12:00)  The work was not particularly exciting or memorable; in fact, it mostly annoyed Gillem because he was losing sleep while going on the liaison missions (01:24:21:00) o Because he had served on the ground, Gillem believes he had a good sense of how the fighting was going (01:24:54:00)  Whenever someone would say something was happening in a specific area, Gillem could picture it in his mind because he had either already been over the area on foot or flown over it (01:24:56:00)  The only place where the division was really pressing forward was up a large valley; although the fighting in the valley was hard, the soldiers knew it was going to be hard, which made the fighting somewhat predictable (01:25:17:00)  Although there were occasional missteps, such as an air strike hitting the wrong area, Gillem does not recall any situations where the officers felt like the situation was getting too out of control for the soldiers (01:25:33:00) �   Gillem’s tour ended at the end of November 1968 and he made it back home to the United States almost a month early (01:26:00:00) o Based on Gillem’s recollection, as it became the fall of 1968, things were quieting down; the soldiers had to go further out to find a fight (01:26:22:00)  Although there was still plenty of fighting to be done, it was not in the immediate vicinity of Hue (01:26:32:00) o Although Gillem acknowledges that there needs to be certain rules governing how the soldiers fought, at a certain point, the soldiers have to be allowed to go look for and engage the enemy (01:27:51:00)  Most of the time, the soldiers had the freedom to look for the enemy but in at certain times, they did not and it was very frustrating (01:28:01:00)  For example, the fact that the Ho Chi Minh Trail, despite being a combat area, was off-limits (01:28:10:00)  When Gillem was an aide, one of the things his general decided was he wanted to see Cambodia, so the general and Gillem took a helicopter and flew along a river bordering Cambodia (01:28:36:00)  As the helicopter flew under the tree canopy, it began taking enemy gunfire from the Cambodian side of the river (01:28:48:00)  There was not a doubt in Gillem mind that the enemy was in Cambodia but the Americans never went after them (01:28:58:00)  Being a platoon leader on the ground, Gillem was not affected too much by this but when he was in a position to see the bigger picture, it was frustrating (01:29:08:00) Occasionally, the division would have South Vietnamese military liaisons working with them (01:29:23:00) o More so, Gillem remembers that when he had been an aide, the general had planned an offensive with the intention of picking a fight with the enemy forces (01:29:26:00)  The general briefed the South Vietnamese military about the plan and said that while the main division would attack in one direction, a small column of bulldozers would go in another direction, towards an Special Forces camp (01:29:52:00)  In reality, the column of bulldozers was really an armored cavalry squadron, consisting of tanks and armored personnel carries; the hope was that the enemy would attack the column, which they did (01:30:08:00)  When the enemy attacked, there was a whole division waiting to respond to the attack (01:30:20:00)  Briefing the South Vietnamese military was deliberate in the belief that there had to be at least a few South Vietnamese personnel who were working for the enemy (01:30:28:00) st o The 101 tended to work less with the South Vietnamese military, mostly because the ARVN soldiers were not around all that much (01:30:38:00) Gillem remembers during his second tour that he made it a point that every evening, almost without exception, he would write a letter to his wife (01:31:28:00) o Gillem’s wife would write letters to him in return but often, he would receive a stack of letters one day then not receive anything for several days (01:31:38:00) � o Nevertheless, the communication presented in the letters was good, both for Gillem and for his wife (01:31:46:00) o For whatever reason, Gillem’s executive officer in the company never wrote to his wife, so Gillem’s letters, apart from keeping his own wife up-to-date, helped keep the executive officer’s wife up-to-date (01:31:52:00) The normal routine for the battalion when Gillem was the company commander was a company’s first sergeant stayed in the rear and pushed supplies to the front; however, Gillem’s first sergeant wanted to be at the front, so he negotiated with the executive officer so the executive officer stayed in the rear while the first sergeant traveled to the front (01:32:37:00) o Once the switch happened, whenever Gillem was in the field, the first sergeant was always there with back-up radios and spare parts; although his executive officer was an outstanding officer, he did not have the experience of twenty plus years in the Army, at the first sergeant did (01:32:48:00) Misc. Recollections (01:34:33:00)  One of the things that the Army did in Vietnam was rapidly accelerate the promotion process (01:34:33:00) o If a draftee or enlistee scored high enough on aptitude tests, the Army would offer them sergeant school; the men who took this route became known as “shake n’ bake” sergeants (01:34:39:00)  The school lasted for several weeks, at the end of which, the soldiers was promoted to an E-5 sergeant (01:34:56:00) o When Gillem first enlisted in the Army, it took eighteen months of service to reach 1st lieutenant and four years to captain; by the end of the war, it was a year to 1st lieutenant and a year to captain (01:35:09:00) o Although the rank was still there, there was a lack of experience, which ultimately hurt the Army (01:35:20:00) o When the draft ended, some of the problems with the soldiers ended as well, although not all of them (01:35:29:00)  After Vietnam, Gillem made stops at graduate school and the Armed Forces Staff College before deploying to Germany (01:35:33:00) o In Germany, there were issues with soldiers using drugs, having apathetic attitudes, etc. (01:34:42:00) o One of the largest problems was “Project 100,000”, which was a proposal to enlist soldiers who normally would not have even been allowed to enlist for various reasons (01:35:57:00)  Once the Project 100,000 soldiers enlisted, something needed to be done with them and additional education seemed like the best prospect (01:36:12:00)  Some of the soldiers accepted the additional education but others did not; for those that did not, life in the Army was just something for them to do and they were the soldiers who caused the most problems for the Army (01:36:20:00) �   o As well, there were problems with gangs and racial divisions; although these issues did not happen in huge amounts, they were still large enough to make things difficult (01:36:32:00) o While in Germany, Gillem served as a battalion executive officer and at one point, he was asked by a soldier in the battalion to speak to the soldier’s GED class (01:36:57:00)  Gillem said he would and on the graduation day, there were forty soldiers in the class when Gillem made his speech (01:37:22:00)  During the speech, Gillem made a joke about generals, not knowing that the student who had asked him to speak was a general’s jeep driver and the general had slipped into the back of the room (01:37:34:00)  All of the soldiers knew the general was in the room, so they all laughed at the joke (01:37:52:00) o Gillem deployed to Germany in 1974 and returned to the United States in 1977 (01:38:40:00) While in Germany on his second tour, while Gillem was working in the G-3, there was a promotion board to major, which was the next logical step for promotion, with Gillem being a captain (01:39:14:00) o Traditionally, when the Army considered promotions, they looked at the rank they were planning on promoting to then selected the top 5% of the next lowest rank for promotion; however, while Gillem was in Germany, the Army selected not only the top 5% of captains from promotion to major but also the next 5%, the group Gillem was part of (01:39:23:00)  Gillem was selected for promotion to major having only four years of service; however, he did not actually receive the promotion until he had about five-and-a-half years of service (01:39:43:00)  The promotion lists were designed to last for roughly a year to a year-anda-half and Gillem’s list did; the next promotion list took eight years to completely exhaust and the next one took almost as long (01:40:07:00)  Therefore, Gillem received promotion to major ten years before most of his peers because he had a been selected for promotion just before the promotions stopped (01:40:26:00) Although it is a fairly well-known fact that Vietnam veterans were abused when they returned home, Gillem was not (01:41:43:00) o Having come home and gone straight through military schools before deploying to Germany, Gillem knew that the abuses were happening but they never happened to him or anyone around him (01:41:50:00) Gillem’s last assignment was as an advisor to the Michigan National Guard, which at the time, was very different from the current National Guards (01:42:19:00) o At the time, the National Guard was essentially a general reserve in the eventuality of a conflict but did not expect to be activated for anything other than that (01:42:24:00) o Therefore, the motivation amongst the National Guard personnel was different but not too shocking because that was the way it had always been (01:42:38:00) �  Gillem does not think he experienced much of the culture change that occurred within the Army; if he did, he did not pay too much attention to it (01:43:03:00) Looking at the current situation in the United States, Gillem believes that Vietnam veterans have taken it upon themselves to make sure that the treatment they received does not happen to the returning soldiers now (01:44:05:00) o From what Gillem had seen, the next time the United States commits a significant amount of military forces to a conflict, the Congress should have to pass a declaration of war, which would place the country on a war footing (01:44:26:00)  Gillem reminds his students that on certain days during World War II, the country went onto rationing (01:44:38:00) o For the most part, Gillem sees that the majority of the American military personnel are treated well; however, there is also a large number of people in American who denigrate military service (01:45:01:00) o The major issue Gillem sees is the most important 1% in America is the 1% who choose to serve in the military; for most people, service in the military is not something they want to do or they want their children to do (01:45:32:00)  The military is more isolated than ever before because the military personnel are “strange” for wanting to serve (01:46:00:00)  As well, the military is so small and the requirement of personnel to serve consecutive tours has opened up new areas for concern; Gillem does not believe Americans have gotten close to problems such as PTSD and brain injuries (01:46:14:00)  These problems will further distance the military from the everyday public, who have not had to go through the experiences that the military personnel did (01:46:50:00)  Gillem sees a widening gulf between the normal, everyday American public and the people who go off for military service (01:47:00:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gillem, Denny (Interview outline and video, 2 of 2), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gillem, Denny Description An account of the resource This interview replaces the missing portion from his original interview in 2004, and primarily covers the period between the end of his first tour in Vietnam in late 1966 to the end of his second tour in 1968. During this period, Gillem was assigned to the 101st Airborne Division, based at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, as a rifle company commander. He and his brigade were sent to Detroit in the summer of 1967 in response to the race riots there, and soon afterward received orders for Vietnam. They arrived late in the year and were initially based at Cu Chi, but went up to the area north of Hue just before the Tet Offensive started in 1968, and participated in the American counterattacks and recapture of Hue, and in followup campaigns in the I Corps sector. Gillem was reassigned to division headquarters after about four months in Vietnam, and spent the rest of his tour with the division's operations (G-3) section. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-05-27 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GillemD1198V2 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b782aa1d207025128b6cae333a4e7ca7.mp4 de816569e26ae7d3df60fba051a5b0bc https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/466812f1eb1a9536bdda7dfb598a5bf0.pdf ab49d5eeb9ca173ba646973f820cce5f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Denny Gillem Vietnam War Total Time: 2:47:00 Childhood and Pre-Enlistment (00:00:00) • • • • • • • • • Born June 4th 1941 in Sacramento, California. Father was an architect. Attended Catholic School. Took ROTC in High School. Intended during this time to become part of the military and hopefully get into West Point. Was also in the Boy Scouts during his childhood. Applied to West Point but did not get in on the first try. After this, attended a junior college in California and then enrolled at a Military Junior College in New Mexico at age 19. On the third try, was accepted into West Point after his Congressman’s appointment dropped out. Was accepted in the middle of June and classes began in July. West Point (00:11:45) • • • • • • • • • • Was told where to be on what day, he showed up and was greeted in a very rough way. Was screamed at and harassed by the older cadets on the first day. The Cadet officer in charge wore a red sash and he gave orders on day one. He was first issued standard sweats and then was issued his uniform after the fact. Very few of the Cadets, other than him, had any military experience. (00:19:15) For initiation, he was marched to Trophy Point. Each barracks had a Upperclassman Squad Leader and they led them on this march. Each barracks had around 120 people and there were around 800 men total in his class. He described the different names for the different class levels. For instance, a Plebe is a freshman, and a Firsty is a senior. Also, Beast Barracks was the nickname for barracks for the newest guys at the school. (00:24:58) A typical day began with the Cadets waking themselves up and going to Reveille formation, and then the Cadets made their beds for inspection. After that, they went to breakfast. Food was served family style on platters. Breakfast was an opportunity for Upperclassmen to pick on Plebes. Much of the day’s activities consisted of physical training and some class work. On some days, the Cadets would camp. They would march or be trucked to the site. There were ways that underclassmen could get back at upperclassmen. After the summer, the recruits were placed in new barracks with some upper classmen �• • • • • Jobs for the Plebes were rotated between different positions between their barracks. His class had a 20% heavier work load then other classes. Work consisted of Mathematics, History, and Foreign Language among others. At times, Plebes were made to entertain the other classes at dinner. (00:40:05) Decided that Infantry was his first choice once he graduated. Training (00:41:00) • • • • • • Moved on to Fort Benning, Georgia after West Point. (00:41:50) Attended Ranger School. At the point in history when he served, the Rangers did not have special dedicated units. They just completed specialist training and then went into regular infantry units. Generally did not see any significantly different treatment from any of the people he met. Became a rifle platoon leader in a mechanized unit. (00:50:15) Graduated Ranger School in December 1964 and Reported to duty in January 1965. In June 1965 requested to serve in Vietnam, but his request was denied as there were only Advisors there at the time. Active Duty (00:53:30) • • • • • • • • After he was approved for Active Duty, he reported to Travis Air Force Base and flew to Vietnam. Remembers being fearful during the flight. Remembers how hot and humid it was when he got off the plane. (00:55:45) Stayed overnight at the base, and was then shipped out to the 2nd Brigade 1st Infantry Division as a replacement. Joined the platoon in the middle of an operation that they had been on for a week. This was the only time in the war he had ever been in a platoon that had the proper ranking structure. (00:57:55) Recalls at one point that he was told to set up an ambush at a location that didn’t exist, and so he made his own revisions to the mission. A month later, he was told to ambush the same position and he remembers being very angry about this. This was his first exposure to the difficulties of the army. He was given no specific instructions on how to deal with the enemy. Missions were called ‘Search and Destroy’ missions to find Vietcong and kill them. The only way that one could see the enemy in the jungle was in a crawl position and often they were simply firing at the noises they heard. During this time, the platoons would go out into the jungle for several days and then they would go back to base camp for several days and then back out again. (01:08:00) He recalls one particular instance of North Vietnamese atrocities which occurred during his second tour of duty. He fought into a village outside the city of Hue. Several men, women, and children were machine gunned just minutes before they arrived. �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • (01:09:10) Had some training on booby traps in Vietnam, but had no other training before he arrived. Only lost one soldier in his first tour. When he was there, he had a sense that he was winning because they never lost a fight. Didn’t get much news from home. His fiancé wrote him daily and his parents wrote him weekly, but other than that he was pretty ignorant to what was going on at home. (01:16:50) All of his men were enlistees and thus they were better soldiers as a general rule. Six months into his tour he was transferred to be an Aide de Camp to a One Star General named General Hollingsworth. The general was kind for the first month but became very tough the last 5 months. Did not hold reporters in high esteem. Most of the reporters were there for a story. (01:28:50) Had some contact with the South Vietnamese and for the most part he liked them. (01:32:45) Had some interaction with the local population. Held an amount of respect for the people of Vietnam. He did some shopping in the local areas, including Saigon. Recalls one episode where he almost had to work with a smuggler to get beer for the generals at his camp. However, he did not have to in the end. (01:44:00) Was hurt during his second tour of duty, and he was replaced as commander of a rifle company. He went to division HQ from there. (01:47:05) He recalls when he was at Division HQ that he was required to do a complete recount of the enemy casualty figures given while the previous general was in charge. Through the recount they figured out that the initial numbers were inflated by around 3 to 1. (01:52:35) Worked in the Operations Center after the recount. This was the control center for operations in the vicinity. He worked the night shift. Came to Division HQ in March 1968. There were daily briefings which let the Operations Center know what was to happen each day. (01:55:40) The Operations Center occasionally worked with the South Vietnamese. US commanders worked with South Vietnamese units through South Vietnamese command centers. Their brigade was sent to the North near the DMZ with the 101st Airborne Division to reinforce the Marines in I Corps. Was aware of the Anti-War movement in the US, and did not like the reaction of the public. (02:03:00) By the time he was rotated home, I Corps was in charge of cleaning up after the Tet Offensive. (02:07:30) He had the choice to do another tour in Vietnam but he did not because he wanted to get home to his wife. While in his second tour he was promoted to Major and he was also selected to go to the Army Officer Advanced Course at Fort Knox, Kentucky. This is an academic-style training regimen by which tactics and logistics were taught. �• • • • • • (02:11:51) After Army Officer Advanced Course, got an offer from West Point to teach and an offer for graduate school from University of Texas-El Paso to major in Political Science and International Relations. He decided to go to graduate school. Got his masters degree. The Army required a utilization tour for those who had earned their graduate degrees on Army money, so after graduating he was sent to the ROTC department at Stanford. Also worked on his second graduate degree at Stanford. (02:20:30) After his time at Stanford, he attended the Armed Forces Staff College in Norfolk, Virginia and then was placed as second in command of the Mechanized Infantry Battalion in Germany. This was the 26th Infantry Battalion. He was assigned as the Operations Officer and was then promoted to Executive Officer of the Battalion, which was his title for most of 3 years he was there. There was a lot of international training during his time there. Was in Germany during the mid-1970s. NOTE : 14 SECOND ERROR IN DISC (02:29:48) At the end of his tour in Germany, he was Assigned to the US Readiness Command in Tampa, Florida, and he worked as a Joint Planner in the Planning Section of the Command. He was initially responsible for the plan for general war in Europe and the backup plan for war in the Middle East. He was then rotated to the position responsible for the plan for war in the Middle East. The command was responsible for sending troops to combat zones in case of the war, so he had to keep track of where units were in the US and abroad. This was a top secret assignment. Was in this position for 4 years. They wrote what became the first draft of Desert Shield. (02:25:25) He then worked as the Professor of Military Science at the University of Tampa. He enjoyed his experience at the university. (02:39:10) He was then transferred to Wyoming, Michigan as an Army advisor to the Michigan National Guard. He was the Brigade Advisor to the 46th Infantry Brigade. After two years in Wyoming, he retired. Post-Army (02:40:50) • Discusses his views on Patriotism and how his Army experience affected him. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gillem, Denny (Interview outline and video, 1 of 2), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gillem, Denny Description An account of the resource Denny Gillem was born in Sacramento, California, in 1941. He intended to make the military his career during his high school years, and applied to West Point several times before being accepted. After West Point, he was trained as an Army Ranger, and served two tours of duty in Vietnam. After his tours, he attended the Army Officers Advanced Course at Fort Knox, Kentucky, and was the director of the ROTC at Stanford University. He then attended the Army Forces Staff College and became second in command of the 26th Infantry Battalion in Germany. He was then reassigned to Tampa, Florida, and the US Readiness Command. He also worked at the University of Tampa as a Professor of Military Sciences. He was then transferred to Wyoming, Michigan, to be the Army Advisor to the 46th Battalion of the Michigan National Guard. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Michigan Military Preservation Society (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-11-03 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GillemD Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d41ebe88106ea411e4e3c946e58ac2e7.mp4 fa16394d3c3c71ee97a2a46984315a07 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f7c61eee54520c3f73f8afc31730bd7c.pdf 721380d39739f6ecb13df8b0f4deb865 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Richard Gillard (01:35:00) Pre-Enlistment (00:21) • Childhood (00:23) • • • • Gillard was born in Muskegon, MI on March 14th, 1919. Family (00:50) • Gillard’s father was a salesman for E.M. Shelving Company while his mother was a house wife who was the first female bank clerk in Muskegon. (00:56) • Gillard’s father served in the 39th ‘Polar Bear’ Division in Russia about the time Richard was born. (00:56) Education (01:42) • Graduated Muskegon High School in 1937. (01:46) • Went to Muskegon Community for 2 years and then attended the University of Michigan where he studied dentistry. While in school he found he wasn’t cut out for dentistry so he dropped. (01:52) Job (02:22) • Soon afterwards, Gillard worked for Charlotte Walker Inc. He describes his primary responsibilities there. Enlistment/Training (02:50) • • Influences (03:30) • When Pearl Harbor was attacked Gillard like many young men rushed to enlist because he felt it was his patriotic duty to serve his country. (03:31) • Gillard was drafted on July 6th 1942 upon which he went to Fort Custer, MI Relevant info regarding the service (04:11) �• • • While at Fort Custer he describes some of the odd jobs he did while there • From there he went to Jefferson Barracks, Missouri for army induction and gunnery training. (04:19) • He describes briefly the weather conditions there, what life was like in the Jefferson Barracks, and the men he served with. (04:56) Daily/Work conditions (05:57) • Briefly describes what he did in basic training. (06:44) • After basic training he was transferred to Fort Lowry outside of Denver where he underwent air corps training, bomb loading, and training in 50-caliber machine guns. (06:34) • Afterwards, he was transferred to St. Louis where he went to powerturret school to learn about aircraft maintenance. (08:50) While there he received training in the functioning and maintenance of power turrets aboard B-24s. (10:01) • After graduating power-turret school went by train to Salt Lake City, Utah for advanced training. (10:48) • Went to California from there for more training. (11:23) Briefly describes his feelings as he disembarked from Stockton, CA on Valentine’s Day 1943, and the largest American-passenger ship of 10,000 people aboard. (13:39) Describes his time aboard the troop ship briefly. (14:18) Shipping out (15:37) • Briefly mentions his time aboard the ship and trip across the Pacific with no convoy support doing nothing more than a zigzag course. Gillard mentions that troops were dropped off first at Wellington, New Zealand, and then at Melbourne, Australia. (15:52) • Gillard briefly backs up and highlights a few instances with MPs. (16:31) • From Melbourne, Australia, Gillard’s next stop was Bombay, India where he had his first encounter seeing beggars on the street. (19:26) Stayed there for a few days. �• Briefly describes his time in Egypt and his visits to Cairo, Alexandria, and the pyramids. (22:29) Active Duty (22:40) • Battles/campaigns/activities (22:41) • • North Africa (22:42)  As Gillard was visiting these Egyptian sights the Germans and English were fighting the Battle of El Alamein. Gillard describes his feelings as he traveled towards Tunisia.(22:58) Along the way he remembers seeing wrecked jeeps and tanks. (23:16)  From there he reported to an airfield just south of Benghazi, Libya. (23:47)  Gillard describes one encounter there where he loaded tubs of machine guns, mortars, belts of ammo, and bombs. His superiors then would often times just toggle the switches on these bombs. He describes his feelings about that. (24:23)  Gillard’s company was attached to the British 8th Army and their job was to service bomber planes. (25:39) At about this time, bombers flew long-range low level bombing runs over Europe. He was based in North Africa for 4 months before being transferred to Italy. (27:17) Palestine (27:40)  On one occasion, Gillard describes going on a supply run to Palestine to pick up supplies for troops in Tunisia. (27:48)  While they were there they were told that German paratroopers had made a dead drop onto their home base. (28:33)  Tells of how he spent a whole week in Palestine visiting Jerusalem and Bethlehem. Further elaborates on a time when one of his friend’s on sentry duty killed a bunch of goats that he mistook for Germans. (29:08)  In another encounter, Gillard elaborates on how British gurkha troops dealt with German paratroopers by the fact that they �used swords and daggers and how the Germans felt about them. (30:07) • Daily/Working conditions – • In Palestine (30:28)  • In North Africa (33:07)  • Briefly elaborates on the daily routine and responsibilities that he conducted. (34:41) Battles/campaigns/activities continued… (36:36) • • During his brief stay in Palestine, Gillard met an Arab girl who he briefly elaborates on in some detail. Also mentions that had the Arabs known he was with her she would have been resented in their eyes. (30:54) Briefly describes the atmosphere of the people there. North Africa (36:36)  Gillard also mentions that they never had any power turret maintenance problems. (36:38)  Summer 1943 Gillard was transferred to Tunisia to a city called Sfax. (37:16) For about a week there the weather was rainy and nothing but muddy and wet on the ground for planes to take off. (38:15)He spent much of his time with a local teacher visiting Tunis and the ancient sites there. (40:08)  From Tunis, they ran bombing missions into Austria. (40:33)  On Thanksgiving 1943 Gillard boarded a liberty ship bound for Italy. (41:27)  Gillard goes back and discusses what desert conditions were like under perimeter tents in the Libyan Desert and an experience with locusts. (1:01:40) Daily life/working conditions – • Italy (41:57)  Landing at Brindisi, Italy, they went on to capture an airfield near Lecce, which from there they conducted bombing �missions into Germany, Rome, and Monte Cassino. (42:35) Took a lot of men and time to destroy Monte Cassino because bombing runs weren’t done below 20,000 feet when bombing factories. (43:50) •  Didn’t fly many missions to support the troops. (44:16)  Describes briefly his visits to Rome and his audience with the Pope. (45:06)  Gillard describes how friendly the Italians living outside his base were. Also mentions in some detail an encounter with an Italian outside the base. (47:07)  While stationed at his base (47:53) Gillard was a secretary performing duties such as typing various other things. Also mentions meeting a certain Douglas Duffy who he had a correspondence with for several years. (48:49) Battles/campaigns continued • Description of bomber missions (50:18)  Gillard mentions that bombers almost always had fighter escorts. In early bombing runs the lead bombers would have to stall briefly so as to let the other bombers lifting off get into formation. Bombers would then fly alone until they reached the border of enemy territory where they would be joined by fighter escorts. Overtime, plane fighting evolved so much that Mustangs eventually came on the scene. (51:53)  Briefly discusses bombing missions conducted in Yugoslavia. (53:34)  Gillard mentions that in one instance that a B-24 pilot returned with just 2 engines even though this was not ordinarily the case the pilot was able to land the plane. (55:24)  Gillard mentions that his base eventually resorted to having soldiers on 12-hour guard duty of aircraft because of previous sabotage. (56:38)  Gillard notes that group HQ found out that many air-force officers had previously come out of civilian life and joined the service. (59:05) �• • Other activities in Italy (1:06:44) • While working at HQ’s office in Lecce, Italy Gillard mentions being involved with reconnaissance. He mentions that he helped to organize social events for the locals. (1:04:55) He also discusses a peculiar instance with an Italian baroness and her daughter. (1:06:08) • Also mentions that they continued their bombing campaigns throughout Austria, Germany, parts of Romania, Bulgaria, and Yugoslavia. Their focus was in bombing the ball-bearing factories in those areas. (1:10:14) • June 1944 Gillard paid another visit to Rome. Describes his personal thoughts of its people and his trips throughout Italy to his wife. (1:11:29) • As American and Russian forces pushed on into Germany bombing missions became less and less. (1:12:39) • On May 6th 1945 they were marched down to the docks ready to leave. Wasn’t there for the celebrations that happened on VE-day. (1:13:36) • Had just passed through the Straits of Gibraltar on May 8th when news reached them that the Germans had surrendered. (1:13:47) Briefly discusses the excitement the soldiers felt when FDR died because he was such a good president. (1:15:42) • Gillard briefly describes a few instances in which soldiers brought local girls to bed with them (1:16:32) and that no disciplinary actions were taken. Activities in United States (1:19:34) • Landed in Hampton Roads, VA. Upon arriving back in the states they were given 2 weeks leave. During that time Gillard took a train to Muskegon and spent his 2 weeks there. (1:20:03) • Upon getting back, he went to Sioux Falls, South Dakota to supposedly reorganize the B-29s to go the Pacific. Wasn’t there long since news came that Japan surrendered in August 1945. (1:20:36) • Spent a month in Sioux Falls organizing discharges for soldiers who had less points then he did to get out. (1:21:37) Gillard had accumulated 140 points. �• Discharge, why he left (1:22:14) • Gillard was discharged around September [8th/9th] because he had accumulated the necessary points to leave. After the service (1:22:20) • Adjusting to home (1:22:36) • After being discharged, Gillard took a train for Chicago and reported to Fort Sheridan and then was able to make it back in time to reenroll into the University of Michigan. Graduating from there with a major in History and Political Science he got a job selling insurance. Discusses his personal thoughts. (1:23:10) • Discusses other career directions that he took and how he met his wife. (1:24:35) • Wraps up by mentioning that his military service helped him to grasp a better awareness of the world and how blessed he was at being uninjured during the war. (1:28:02) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gillard, Richard (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gillard, Richard Description An account of the resource Richard Gillard served in the U.S. Army Air Corps from June 1942 to September 1945 during World War II. In this account, Gillard discusses his pre-enlistment, enlistment and training and his combat experience abroad in North Africa and Italy. Gillard mentions aspects of war not generally discussed such as bombing missions conducted into Yugoslavia, Romania, and Germany and the maintenance aspects of B-24s. Gillard concludes with his life after the war and his thoughts on service in the army. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army. Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-04-29 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GillardR Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/06b7c5a031999e48c2321bbcda347223.mp4 6d063be20723141f03f6c1e75505163f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bff40ea1645af1665fb5bb22dd5a9b1b.pdf 35c3260600c73fe85ed82a8f7c197e03 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee name: Ray Vincent Gill Length of Interview: 1hr. 22 minutes Pre-Enlistment (00:13) • Childhood (00:17) o Raymond Vincent Gill was born into an immigrant family in 1926, the first of their children to be born in America. His father, a former British Navy man, upon arriving took a job working at a steel mill near Cleveland, Ohio at about the time of his birth. (00:52) • Education (00:56) o The place he grew up was a melting pot of diverse cultures. He describes his early childhood years briefly while attending school. (01:18) o The four junior colleges in the area where he grew up were divided based on ethnicity while there was one high school in his town. (02:17) o Describes the town he grew up in and various high school activities he was a part of. (03:12) o First heard about Pearl Harbor after going to a band concert with a few buddies from the parking attendant who told them of the event. (04:11) Briefly describes his reaction to the attack. (05:01) o While still in high school, at the age of 17, he relates how government recruiters came to his school and administered a round of tests to students with the purpose of selecting those that passed for the Army Specialized Training Program. (06:02) o Education/Training in Army Specialized Training Program (06:11) ƒ Where he went and who he trained with (06:16) • Sufficed to say he passed and was soon sent to Purdue University where he briefly describes what classes he took and what type of military tactics they learned there. Was there for 16 weeks with no time for entertainment. (06:33) • Living Conditions during basic training (06:40) �o Training to become a mechanical engineer, the basic training was tough. Because the Normandy Invasion fighting was getting tougher the army program was broken up/ For Gill this meant that because he was 17 when he joined the program that the army could not touch him until he turned 18 to sign up for active duty. (09:34) o After completing about six credits of college courses he dropped out because he was needed at home. His mother did not think he needed college because she considered it a waste of time and that family was more important. (10:31) Enlistment/Basic Training (10:58) • Where he went and what company he served with (11:05) o Was sent to Fort Benjamin Harrison, Indiana where he was inducted. Ran through a round of tests which he passed before moving on to basic training. (11:20) o Spent 17 weeks at Camp Wheeler, Georgia near Macon during the summer and fall months. Briefly describes what the layout of the camp was like and mentions where some of the people he lived within the barracks came from. (11:40) o Describes his instructors in some detail. In addition, he mentions what he was taught and also having an experience with one of his instructors later on after the war. (12:50) o Following basic training, he went home for a short time to visit family. Afterwards, he reported to the 76th Division at Camp McCoy, Wisconsin. (15:59) ƒ While here he briefly describes his cadre training. Briefly describes what it was like to run military maneuvers in the snow was like. (17:05) ƒ Was soon told that his whole cadre division was soon to leave for Europe. (18:12) As time went by the Army developed a new type of combat boot for the infantry to wear. (18:33) ƒ Briefly goes into his training to become a 1st scout rifleman in the first squad of the 76th Division. (19:46) Active Duty (20:40) • Campaign Background (20:56) �o Left from Camp Myles Standish in Massachusetts aboard a special troop transport the morning after he had taken a train from the place he had been training previously. (21:10) Left the U.S. for Europe in November 1944 for Europe. Had graduated high school the previous January 1944. (21:50) o Left aboard the SS Sea Owl in a convoy of 42 ships. (22:10) On his trip overseas his convoy was approached by German U-boats upon which they dropped many depth charges to scare them off. Describes living conditions while aboard in some detail. (23:03) o Their destination supposedly France turned out to be instead a trip to Portsmouth, England and then by night to Bournemouth, England a resort town. (24:54) While there returning veterans already in combat would come to them with stories with action from the front. (25:27) • Living conditions in England (25:50) o While stationed in England, Gill mentions that he spent much of his time practicing his saxophone and performing with an army band at various clubs in the area. The band he was a part of was a dance band which played for 30 solid nights for the army troops in the area. (26:25) o Was asked on several occasions he wanted to be promoted to sergeant which he refused b/c it would take him away from the 13-man band he was a part of. (28:10) o On one instance, after obtaining permission from his chaplain he took a train to visit some relatives living in England. While on the train he mentions a story of meeting a tweet couple in his train compartment. He mentions that wherever he traveled that he had been given special orders to keep quiet about his duties and to remove any unit designations for fear they might be discovered by spies. Interestingly enough also aboard with him were six British sailors who he describes in some detail. (29:45) • France (33:01) o Soon afterwards he was deferred back to a rifleman and then went by ship to Le Havre, France which the Germans had destroyed. The buildings he saw had been reduced to rumble and mention that he was awed by the devastation. By this time the Allies were continuing to move towards Germany by truck when possible. (33:55) o During winter 1944 Gill describes briefly what camping conditions were like in the harsh weather conditions as his unit moved towards the Bulge. (34:42) �o Was part of the group in February 1945 that helped to push the Germans back into Germany. (35:51) o Mentions one instance in some detail of an encounter of the Allies and Germans exchanging shell fire over a particular river which he didn’t remember. While this occurred, men were not allowed to make fires and so they dug deep pits to try to keep warm. The greatest danger American soldiers like him faced was frostbite. (37:11) o During one instance while on patrol and dressed in camouflage clothing he moved by night to an observation tower to observe German movements. To communicate their positions they used signals to keep in contact with each other. (38:51) • Movement towards Luxembourg (40:50) o Gill mentions as they proceeded towards the Sauer River region to town called Echternach, Luxembourg where near there his regiment the 417D was assigned to build a bridge across the river since all the previous bridges in the area had been blown up by the Nazis. The building of this pontoon bridge cost many men frostbite. (41:40) o His regiment the 385th with the aid of the 304th Regiment and the 317th Regiment attempted to make the river crossing. (42:17) o About the time of the Sauer River crossing, Gill mentions that the river was at flood stage and was flowing very fast. The crossing of the pontoon bridge very difficult being that they were being fired on by German machine guns and German heavy artillery. The 417th eventually made the crossing and sustained 80% causalities and was never as effective after that. (43:12) o Upon crossing the Sauer River the Allies ran into the Siegfried Line and there was heavy fighting that occurred. One would usually have to jump over a dead body as they crossed the river and on the other side the Allied units regrouped. (44:17) o Upon approaching the Siegfried Line demolition engineers made a path through the tank traps for the tanks to make their way to the front. Gill describes what the German line composed of. They went through the line 3 times before the way was clear for tanks to penetrate. (45:20) o Inside the Siegfried Line the terrain was bumpy and was dotted with machine gun nests, artillery emplacements, and mortars. Scouts like him were responsible for identifying artillery placements. The fighting along the line was very savage. (46:57) �ƒ Often the PFCs and even the officers didn’t know where they were going. Causality rates were very high. (48:34) From January to May his regiment went through 9 different regiment commanders because the other ones were either killed or wounded. Eventually the line was overrun. (49:20) ƒ When it was overrun, Allied infantry men had to navigate the maze of concrete pill boxes and destroy them with flamethrowers. As the war progressed a tank artillery was developed to deal with pillboxes. (50:02) ƒ During one instance, Gill had to crawl over a little stream and then move towards a few pillboxes. He and his unit were pinned down for several hours. It was cold and muddy that day. (52:41) A friend of his, Vincent Lamberto, charged the German position and sprayed the pillbox with bullets. His action led to the Germans surrender at that specific pillbox. (53:51) His friend then cracked because he had lost a sense of reality. (55:03) ƒ Describes in some detail the thousands of Allied soldiers marching in columns of twos along the road with the armor usually taking the lead and battling German tanks. On one occasion, when they came to a town the Germans were ready for them. Gill would go into town and then report back that he was getting shot at and Allied tanks would be dispatched to that area. (56:27) ƒ Usually what happened was that the Germans would let the scouts go through and then when the rest of the column came up they would fire on them. As the war continued, the Germans realized they were losing and mass desertions followed. As the number of German officers decreased, German soldiers more and more didn’t know what to do whereas American soldiers and officers were taught to improvise. (59:10) • Briefly describes the pattern of town-taking and where once prisoners were taken what they did with their prisoners. (1:00:20) • On one occasion, he and a few other scouts were approaching an empty farm building and realized there was a German machine gun nest right there. The Germans positioned there immediately surrendered. The ammo man was a 14 year old kid. (1:00:52) • Germany (1:01:21) o In Germany, an organization called the Volkssturm served as the defense of towns in the area. Women acted as supporting roles. (1:01:25) �o In towns where the Gestapo or SS were there was heavy fighting where otherwise there would just be sporadic fighting. (1:02:37) In other places, ordinary folks surrendered or fled to the next own. As they moved along, Allied soldiers rounded up all the firearms. (1:03:34) o As they moved further into Germany’s depths, especially in the country where many Germans were just farmers didn’t want any part of the war and surrendered. (1:04:46) o Near the Czech border, Gill mentions that they dug foxholes in anticipation of meeting the Russians who came in with their wives [?] singing and dancing. (1:05:52) Upon meeting them, many Russians traded weapons with the Americans. The Russians, Gill mentions, lived off the land with no regard to German welfare whatsoever. (1:06:50) o The Allied Army was then given orders from the “Big Three” from the Yalta Conference that Germany was to be divided up into military zones. (1:07:45) o Gill mentions that the land they had just fought so hard to free from the Nazis was to become part of the Russian military zone. Gill shares his thoughts on this issue. (1:08:30) o With the end of the war in sight, many Germans tried to surrender to U.S. soldiers but were turned around and ordered to surrender to Russian forces that then pillaged and raped many German women because of the previous treatment of the Nazis during their invasion of Russia. (1:09:21) o Gill mentions that he was standing in a foxhole with water up to his calves on VE Day when he was ordered to report to service company headquarters to report to the regiment dance band. (1:10:25) He was then sent to the rear where he found out that he had combat fatigue and here again was asked if he wanted to be a sergeant upon which he refused. (1:11:48) • Battle for the Rhine (1:12:17) o Gill briefly backs up and describes what conditions had been like for the four month period that he had been trudging towards Germany with only two showers. (1:14:00) • Germany’s Occupation (1:14:37) o Gill and other Allied soldiers tried to reestablish some German political order while maintaining its towns also. (1:14:52) �o Sometimes, his dance band would go around and play for captured laborers who had been enslaved by the Nazis from other countries. They did this until their division was disbanded. (1:15:35) o Mentions that with only 42 points he was sent back to France with a traveling show which traveled around Europe while all the while accumulating discharge points. Was then discharged in May 1946. (1:16:38) o At about the time the war in Europe ended he was sent to France where he was stationed in Compiegne, France waiting to be shipped to Japan. Was near a depot station when the war officially ended. (1:18:17) o While touring through one town he auditioned with another band and got in and stayed on in Europe later on. Upon being discharged the next day, he received separate orders to join the Dixieland Band in Compiegne. (1:19:20) o Stayed on in France after he was discharged and joined a traveling soldiers band touring Europe for a while before going home. (1:20:32) o Wraps up by mentioning that he had more stories he could tell for a later time. (1:21:33)   � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gill, Raymond (Interview outline and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gill, Raymond Description An account of the resource Ray Gill is a World War II veteran who served with the U.S. Army from 1941 to May 1946. In this account, Gill discusses his pre-enlistment, enlistment and basic training. He also discusses his active duty and how difficult the fighting was in France, Luxembourg, and Germany. He talks about soldiers living conditions, and the occupation of Germany. Gill also toured with a dance band throughout Europe. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Michigan Military Preservation Society (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-06-26 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GillR Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3efda927628120a6bebd6213057b8688.mp4 a29ad08391a250f24c711d47ed78268d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cfb15a8c1bbaf9dbc45854cdbc27f2ae.pdf b2c487ed0c213d8117a770f63cd28b70 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Andrew Gill (22:03) Background Information (00:10)       Born May 9th 1966 in England. (00:10) Served in the Royal Navy. (00:11) His father served as a detective. He also has 1 brother and 1 sister. (00:43) Since a child, Andrew always wanted to join the Royal Navy. (1:05) He had no direct family in the military, however his father did work on submarines during World War II. When he joined the Navy he had just turned 18 (1984). (1:58) Training (2:10)      After joining the Navy, Andrew was sent by train to Dartmouth, England, in September of 1984. (2:11) He passed out of the Naval College in December of 1985. (2:49) He was somewhat prepared for military life as his interests prior to joining helped him prepare and inform himself on the Navy practices. (3:10) Andrew is still in contact with some of his friends he had met while in the Navy. (4:00) He was given a chance to enter the German Naval College which was interesting to many of the cadets. The training appeared to be very similar to the British Naval College. (4:31) Service (5:18)       Andrew spent much time in the North and South Atlantic in 1988. (5:24) He also served in the Pacific and Caribbean. (6:22) Andrew also had a service where he sailed around the world. (6:40) The Royal Navy worked with a U.S. aircraft carrier to enforce a no fly zone. (7:45) Letters and mail was how the men contacted home. Depending on where the ship was mail could take 1-4 weeks to get to its intended location. (8:21) Near the end of his service men were aloud 1 ten minute phone call once a week via satellite phone. (9:13) End of Service (9:38)    Several weeks ahead of time, sailors tell family and friends that the ship will be coming into port. Often times, there is a military band there to greet the sailors. (9:47) Adjusting to civilian life was seen as very odd. One thing that was odd was the different language Andrew required as a result of being in the Navy. (10:58) It took time to adjust to the wife’s and kid’s routine. (11:40) Moving to the U.S. (12:00) �     He came to the U.S. in May of 2000. Andrew left the Royal Navy in April of 2000. (12:00) His wife was American. This influenced him to move to the U.S. Military life was difficult with a wife and children. (12:21) He served 16 years in the Navy (1984-2000). (12:50) He very much dislikes being late. (13:25) Andrew is also a stickler for having a tidy room. He believes this is due to his military experience. (14:23) Life in the Navy (15:10)        At sea, Andrew was lucky enough to have his own cabin while at sea. This room consisted of a pull out desk, a sink, and a bunk. (15:11) Andrew’s main job was to steer the ship. He was a seaman officer and was a member of the executive branch which ran navigation. (16:02) He was also assigned a group of sailors that he was in charge of. (17:44) Andrew was later made a warfare officer. This meant he was responsible for the ship’s battle tactics. (18:26) The sailors very much liked seeing different countries as a result of being in the Navy. Military life also gave him appreciation of what he had at home. (19:00) Early on in his service, he served in a NATO unit. He enjoyed seeing the many different cultures as a result of this service. (20:27) He believes that his time in the military was very useful and would encourage others to pursue it. (21:14) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gill, Andrew (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gill, Andrew Description An account of the resource Andrew Gill, Born May 9th 1966 in England, served in the Royal Navy from September of 1984-April of 2000. During his service, Andrew served on many cruises including one that evolved NATO operations as well as another that traveled around the world. His primary tasks included ship navigation as well as warfare tactics. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Maczka, Lillian (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, British Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-05-31 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GillA1397V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7fbc35c3b094161066ec94c875470932.mp4 07ee7056d99908901815083001ef215e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8a067c476895def358369a3132506971.pdf be4666abb041879eff31e77091af78a9 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Freddie Gilbert Vietnam War 1 hour 23 minutes (00:23) Early Life -Born in Vermont on June 12, 1949 -Grew up in Prairieville, Maryland -Had been adopted by father’s brother (uncle) when he was 5 months old -Biological father was a WWII veteran that couldn’t support another child -Uncle (adopted father) worked at Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland -Civilian employee: tested artillery pieces to see if they fired properly -Graduated high school in 1969 -Worked for Veteran’s Administration until he was married and drafted -Worked as a male dietician at the VA -Job did not grant him deferment -Met his future wife when he was 16 at a dance competition -Made extra money in dance competitions -Received his draft notice in 1969 in Alton, Maryland after getting marriage license -Ordered to report May 19 -Had gone to physical earlier to register for the draft -Lots of men were trying to get out of the draft (08:55) Training at Fort Bragg -Went to Fort Bragg, North Carolina for ten weeks of basic training -Training was about transforming civilians into soldiers -Physically and psychologically disciplined already (for the most part) -Drill sergeants could, and would, “beat up” recruits that were out of line -Idea was to prepare you for war -Knew about Vietnam growing up, saw the early reports on TV -Basic broke down into 2 zero weeks (preparation, receiving gear) and 8 weeks of actual training (13:10) Training at Fort McClellan -Sent to Fort McClellan, Alabama for further training to become an 11-Bravo (regular infantry) -10 weeks -Hoped he would get selected for NCO (officer) training -Originally was going to be sent to Fort Polk, but there was a meningitis outbreak there -Given a 12 day leave at the end of training -Training consisted of: -Hand to hand combat -Running Vietnam oriented scenarios (mock villages) -Good training, but it didn’t prepare you for the reality of Vietnam -Trainers were recent Vietnam veterans �(16:45) Deployment -After 12 days of leave had to get to Travis Air Force Base in California -Placed in hangar -MP’s (military police) kept at entrances and exits to keep soldiers in -Stayed there for a day and a half -Walked from the hangar right into a waiting jet -Took a chartered 747, 28 hour flight (19:17) Arrival in Vietnam -Landed outside of Saigon -It was hot, stank -Burning smell -Decaying smell -Told that 101st Airborne needed troops -Arrived in October 1969 -Not given a friendly welcome by the present troops -Transferred to Camp Evans via C-130 -Given another week of training there before being sent into the field -Booby traps -General information about Vietnam -A little helicopter training -Assigned to D Company of the 2nd Battalion, 506th Regiment, of the 101st Airborne Division -Went to clerk for pencil and paper -Heard firefight on the radio -Realized the gravity of the situation -D Company returned to base from the field -Not a warm welcome for recruits -Some leaders were helpful, gave morale boosts, others not so much -Stand down for D Company, then they would be sent into the fields (27:30) Flatlands -Sent to the flatlands (near coast) -First few months were uneventful -Went to Firebase Jack -Ate pretty well -Little to no enemy activity (28:40) A Shau Valley -Sent to the A Shau Valley in the Spring of 1970 -Action picked up and gradually intensified -Original job was to be an ammo bearer for the M60 machine gunner -Promoted to E4 Squad Lead (point man) -Stayed off the trails -Rigged with booby traps -Watched by the NVA -Had one man behind him to watch the tops and sides -Kept 75 yards ahead of everyone else -“Sacrificial lamb” if they got killed that meant the main body didn’t suffer -Usually the NVA waited for radio operators and officers �-NVA were masters of close quarters combat -Knew that explosive capabilities were worthless at close range (34:15) Firebase Ripcord -Starting in March the military tried to establish Firebase Ripcord -First attempts were unsuccessful -D Company sent to Firebase Ripcord in mid- April -Acted as security for the artillery -Reinforced perimeter -Acted as security for 30 days then rotated to jungle patrols -Key tactical position for bombarding the Ho Chi Minh Trail -Encountered ambushes and booby traps fairly regularly in the field -Tried to attack NVA bunkers -Never able to get that close -Too dug in -Bombardment didn’t work either -Took part in the push for Hill 1000 (38:55) Battle of Firebase Ripcord-Rescuing Alpha Company -Remembers that rescuing Alpha Company was the worst part of fighting -D Company was in the rear for training when the NVA made a push to dislodge the firebase -D Company was told to immediately report -Told to rescue Alpha Company -In and out kind of mission -Tried to get out of walking point, but to no avail -Loaded up on helicopters with only ammunition and water -Landing zones were getting hit by enemy gunfire and were too hot to land -Returned to the helipad and would try again the next day (46:30) Rescuing Alpha Company Pt. 2 -Made another attempt on the second day -Landing zones were still dangerously hot -Sergeant Skinner jumped from helicopter and stormed enemy position -Shot and had to be evacuated -Took another casualty trying to land -Moved towards shooting and maintained radio contact -Moved quickly to become a difficult target -Forty minutes of running -Alpha Company was surrounded on the top of a very small hill -NVA was closing in from almost all sides -Rescue went fairly well -Had to clear new landing zone for helicopters -Able to rescue 56 soldiers from Alpha Company -He (Freddie) boarded the last helicopter -Almost didn’t make it out because the helicopter hit a tree and almost had to set down -Last major battle of the Vietnam War: 248 American casualties �(55:00) Coming Home -Returned to Camp Evans -Got a call that his mother died -Pulled out after 10 months of a tour -Red Cross brought him home -Harassed when he came home -Called a baby killer -Friends and former employer turned on him -Afraid of Vietnam veterans (57:45) Enlisting in the Army -Decided to re-up because he knew the Army -Given $10,000 -Promoted to E5 (sergeant) -Became a trainer at the Aberdeen Proving Ground -Trained officer candidates at Aberdeen Proving Ground (1:01:50) Emotional Impact of War -Battle of Firebase Ripcord left a deep emotional impact -So much carnage for a 19 year old -Prisoners were treated better than soldiers and returning veterans -Felt that it was his duty to comply with the draft and go to Vietnam -Would do it again if he had to -Profound emotional connection to comrades -“All we had in Vietnam was each other” (1:05:10) More on his Military Career-Germany -First stationed at Fort Dix -Transferred to Bamberg Army Base in Germany -Did a lot of training -Worked in conjunction with other NATO forces -Volunteers had a better attitude and outlook than draftees did -Draft was not an effect way to get soldiers -Army began to change over time -Began to become more a means to an end for young men -Some still joined out of patriotism -Wife liked Germany -Germans liked Americans -Facilities were provided for his children -Spent 5 years in Germany (1:09:00) Military Career-Fort Meade and the Shooting Team -Came home from Germany because adopted mother was having major surgery -Sent to Fort Mead -Given 90 days -Military wanted to find something for his reassignment -Placed with the Army Shooting Team -Having the background of combat infantry allowed him to skip preliminary process -Given 90 days to prove his worth -Made the cut �-Performed at West Point in front of huge audience -Traveled around in luxury -Met the president -Became a sniper instructor -Stayed in it for 6 years (1:11:25) Military Career-Korea DMZ -Stationed in Korea -Got promoted over time -Had fallen behind -Needed to brush up on mechanized tactics and basic tactics for soldiers -First was a squad leader -Later on was made platoon leader -Stationed on the DMZ (demilitarized zone) -Went on patrols on the DMZ -South Korean civilians liked to watch the American infantry get ready to go on patrols -Not a lot of action on the DMZ -“We looked at them and they looked at us” -If either party crossed the DMZ they were liable to be shot at -DMZ boundaries were not marked well -Lots of ordinance scattered across the DMZ (minefields specifically) (1:14:15) More about Korea-President Reagan Visits DMZ and General Info -Went to Korea alone -Visited Seoul -Had to be on pass list to be able to go on leave no matter who you were -Koreans viewed Americans well -Had no interaction with the South Korean military -President Reagan visited near the DMZ -Lots of pomp and circumstance -Placed on full alert just in case -Stayed in Korea for 12 months (1:18:30) Later Military Career -Came back to California and served with the 7th Infantry Division -Did more time with the Army Shooting Team -June 1st 1989 retired from the Army after 20 years of service (1:19:50) Life after the Military -Not ready to retire -Only knew military style work -Got into the civilian guard business -Became a lieutenant in the Pinkerton Guard Business -Guarded NASA facilities -Guarded GE facilities -Guarded facilities working with the NSA -Military experience was perfect for guard job -Intrinsic need to protect people and things -Still works for Pinkerton, has been in it for 24 years -Loves the job, loves the structure, and does not want to retire anytime soon � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gilbert, Freddie (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Freddie Description An account of the resource Freddie Gilbert is a Vietnam War veteran born in1949 in Vermont and was raised in Prairieville, Maryland. In 1969 he was drafted for the Vietnam War and was attached to D Company in 2nd and 506th of the 101st Airborne. His unit was heavily engaged in the fighting around Firebase Ripcord in 1970. After the war he enlisted in the Army and served as a trainer and made that his career until he retired from service on June 1st 1989. Afterwards he took a job in the civilian security sector with the Pinkerton Guard Business and is still serving with them. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-10-10 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GilbertF1549V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/04136b4baac82e697ac295885f72a766.mp4 cde6ff13778c0203981650a3757af711 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/df58c494eac0810388b20af8ddc40721.pdf 24b9126187bf4fc3552532006dafd30d PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW CAROL GILBERT Conflict: Vietnam Era Born: 1950 in Nuremburg, Germany Resides: Odenton, Maryland Interviewed by: Janet Coryell, PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project Transcribed by: Claire Herhold, January 19, 2015 Interviewer: Carol, let’s start with a little background information. If you would, can you tell us where you were born? Sure, my father was in the military and I was born in Nuremburg, Germany on July 25, 1950. Interviewer: And did you spend a long time in Germany? We were there just for two years and then we came back to the states. Then my father got out of the military and went into the reserves and worked up in Methuen, Massachusetts. And when the Cuban Crisis came back, his unit was called back into active duty and he stayed active duty. Interviewer: Because you still lived there in Massachusetts? (1:00) We lived in Massachusetts, then we moved to Texas when I was thirteen, and then he got orders for Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland when I was fourteen. Interviewer: And you spent a lot of years there. And he retired out of Aberdeen Proving Ground so that’s actually … and Maryland is actually, I claim, my home. Interviewer: When did you meet your husband? I met him at a teen club at Aberdeen Proving Ground. He used to dance in a dance contest where they would pay the contestants fifty dollars and they would split it between the boy and girl; he got twenty five, she’d get twenty five. Interviewer: This is rock and roll? It was rock and roll. Splits, hand springs… �Interviewer: Oh my gosh! In fact, he could still do it to this day. When we go to weddings with a friend of ours that was a teenager with us, he’ll start doing the footwork and everything, and I’m going…uh! I hang my head. [laughs] I’m going, we’re getting too old for this! But that’s how I met him. We started going steady October 2nd, 1965. (2:03) Interviewer: You still remember! Yes. Interviewer: And so you were how old? Fifteen. Interviewer: Fifteen. And you’re still with him all these years later. Yeah. He was sixteen, I was fifteen. We’d been to three proms. Interviewer: So you were in the same high school together. No, we were in different high schools. He went to Perryville High, I went to Aberdeen High. Interviewer: Did you get married right out of high school? A year later. A year later we got married. It’s like, in our era, you got married or you went to college, in that era. And so we got married. April 12th was our wedding day and I said to my husband, I said, “We’ve got to go get our marriage license.” I did not need a signer because I was eighteen in the state of Maryland, but he needed a signer because the male had to be twenty one or older. Interviewer: Right. So we get them and I just looked and I said, “Why don’t you go see what number you are for the draft board.” (3:01) And he said, “Ok.” So he came back and he said, “I need to talk to you.” �And I said, “Oh.” And his mom was there. And we found out the draft notice was mailed out the week before that. Interviewer: So he hadn’t actually gotten it yet? He did not get it yet. Interviewer: He had a number like four or something. We had not… he still has his draft notice at home. The original one. So he was supposed to leave April 10th. Interviewer: So what did you do about the wedding? I kind of called my father who was still in the military, and I said, “Dad…” He was a command sergeant major…and I said, “You’ve got to do something. This is your money.” Interviewer: You had a big wedding planned. Well, I had seven attendants. It was a rainbow wedding that I always… everybody was in different colors. Interviewer: Oh, how pretty! And it was all of our high school friends and cousins and everything in it. We had to go to the draft board and sat in front of four people. It was myself, my mother and father, him, and his mother and father. (4:02) And we got a thirty day deferment. So the day of the wedding, we come out of the church after we had our Catholic mass, which lasted an hour, and we came out and his mother was out there with an envelope and it was his draft notice and the date was…he left May 19th. Interviewer: And what did you do when he left? Did you move back with your parents? Were you living by yourself? �I moved in with his father and mother for a while, and then I moved with my mom and dad when they lived at Aberdeen Proving Ground. Freddy went to Fort Bragg for Basic. Right out of Fort Bragg, we went to Fort McClellan, to AIT [Advanced Individual Training]. He came home October 2nd, left October 22nd, and during that time I got pregnant with our first one. Interviewer: But you didn’t know yet. Nope [laughs]. They weren’t that modern! Three months later it was like, Oh! You’re pregnant! Interviewer: And how did you let him know? By letters. I wrote every night, every day to him. (5:02) Interviewer: Wow. Does he still have the letters? He has the letters and I have letters from him. And I used to get piles of letters at one time, and I’m going, why am I getting like five letters today? And when he came back I said, “why?” And he said, “Because I would sit and date them different dates. Because I never knew when I was going to have the time to write, but our agreement was we would write at least every other day to each other.” [laughs] So I do have the letters and I sent pictures as I got pregnant, bigger and bigger. And he sent pictures of him with his six pack [laughs]. Interviewer: Now he wasn’t able to come home for the birth or anything like that. No, nope. My father kept on saying to me… the due date was July 10th…and my father kept on saying, “Give me ten dollars.” And I says, “I don’t have ten dollars! I’m living off of …” He never made over five hundred dollars a month until he made E-5. So when he was in ‘Nam, he was a private and then he made Spec-4 and that was like three hundred and fifty a month. (6:10) And I said, “I don’t have an extra ten dollars! You know, I’m pregnant. I have to start thinking about diapers and this and that. I don’t have an extra ten dollars.” He said, “Well, I need ten dollars because I want to send ten dollars and bet.” And my father never bet on anything. And �he says, “To the Lloyds of London. And say that you are going to have your baby on your birthday within two hours of your birth date.” He said, “For your ten dollars, you can win ten thousand dollars on a bet.” Interviewer: Okay… I says, “I’m not giving you ten dollars.” To this very day I say, “Dad, you should have done the ten dollars!” [laughs] Interviewer: So he was right? He was right. Interviewer: Oh my gosh! My son is twenty years and a minute and a half younger than me. Interviewer: Oh, that must have hurt. [laughs] And in the delivery room they sang “Happy Birthday.” (7:02) And then they got a wire to Freddy. And I got a rose. I have, to this very day, I don’t know where the rose came … everybody in the family said…it had to be the Red Cross, is the only thing I could think of. Interviewer: That’s nice. And he got the word that everything was fine. Everything went well. You have a son. And how he got his name, is the guys in his platoon put their names in a hat. Because I told him, I will name the girl, you name the boy. And that’s how he’s Daniel Warren. He’s named after one of the guys in his platoon, was Danny Ferrara, and another guy named Warren, and it happened to be my father’s name too. Interviewer: That’s wonderful. So that’s how my son got his name. �Interviewer: That’s really neat. And he was about three or four months old when your husband came home then? Freddy came home in September. (8:00) He was born in July, July 25th. Fred came home in September because his mother passed away. And we got word from the Red Cross and they didn’t let him come home. And then, of course, I went to my father again. I said, “This is the second request. Does he have to go back?” Because he was due to come back in October. And so he did his paperwork and since he was thirty days short they let him stay stateside. So he did not have to go back to ‘Nam. Interviewer: And did he continue in the service after that? He continued in the service. When he turned twenty one he decided…he worked for the VA hospital before he got drafted. So of course, at that time they kept your jobs open. But you don’t have to work in the same job, but they had to hire you back. And his supervisor said, “You don’t want to come back to the young vet hospital. Number one, you’re going to probably see guys that have gone through, and you’ll see the roughness.” So on his twenty first birthday, he decided to stay in the military. (9:03) So he spent his twenty years in the military. Interviewer: Were you working during the time that he was in the military, when you had small children? I stayed home. I worked some. I stayed at home most of the time because I wanted to raise the kids. Interviewer: When you worked, what did you do? I did bookkeeping. I went to school for hotel management. And then when I didn’t work, and we went back, I went into real estate for property management and title work. And I do that to this day. �Interviewer: And did your kids…you kind of grew up at a very interesting time in our culture where you’ve got the women’s movement and the anti-war movement and the civil rights movement…did any of those have an impact on your life or did they affect the way your children saw your job? Or did they affect the way you picked a job or worked? I tried to pick so I would be at home with the kids. And even when I worked, I made sure I got home within in an hour of their time, and that’s how I picked a job because I’m very familyorientated. (10:06) And we were young. You know, the first one was born when I was twenty. The second was when I was twenty three. And we were young parents and with Freddy staying in the military, he got into training, and he was gone a lot. And I’m going, you know, these kids need some structure. That’s the problem with this world now is that the kids don’t have any structure. So I wanted to stay at home so I started babysitting for friends and to this day we’re still friends. I started babysitting in 1977. Interviewer: And that was people who… now were you still living on base at this point? We were living at Fort Meade, Maryland at that time. Interviewer: So these are all army friends? Mmm hmm. It seems like when he decided to stay in the military, all of our…I don’t want to say “civilian friends” but that’s what they actually are…they looked at us as that we had leprosy. (11:00) They did not want to have anything to do with us. Interviewer: Now is that part of the anti-war movement? I believe that’s what it was. They said, “We worried about him when he was in Vietnam. I’m not worrying about him anymore.” Interviewer: Wow. That must have hurt. �It was leprosy. I felt that we … and even being stationed at Aberdeen Proving Ground, we were just fifteen miles from his high school and all the kids he went to school with. We had very little conversation with any of them. Interviewer: That must have been very difficult for you. It was very hard. Because being a teenager, a young wife, you know, I went to school with these girls. We were in their weddings. I was their maid of honor. We were their best mans [sic] and everything else and all of a sudden I have nothing to do with you. Interviewer: Did that last even after Vietnam? It’s still. We’ll talk. They still live in the same towns in Perryville and still have cliques. (12:01) I finally talked Freddy for his fortieth high school reunion, let’s go. Let’s go! And we went, and there was, you know, roughly about twenty five at his. And they still…we talk on Facebook. You know how you…it’s like a commercial. You go to church when you get married and when someone dies. [laughs] That’s how I feel! We see each other when someone passes away or when their kids get married we always get an invitation, but like… it’s just our military friends. To this very day. Interviewer: So the army sort of became your family. Yep. Interviewer: What about your birth families? Were they supportive of your decisions to go into the army and to get married and stay with an army man? I have to admit that my parents never … did they back us? Yes. My dad was a military person. But my parents always let us do our own decisions. My mother had a saying: “you’re not going to come back to me ten years from now and say it’s your fault you got divorced. You should have told me you didn’t like him.” (13:09) And that’s actually with our kids. I don’t pick their �girlfriends. I didn’t pick their boyfriends. We supported them. When they fell, we’re there to pick you up. But my parents never put any stress. They liked Freddy. Did they love Freddy? They didn’t like his actions. After Vietnam, they weren’t crazy about his actions because he would do weird stuff like they all did. And we fought some. And, you know, I’ll tell anybody, marriage is a …and I’ve told my kids this…marriage is a two-way street. When it becomes oneway, that’s when you’ve got to get out. And it’s communication and understanding. We’ve been married since ’69. Interviewer: That’s a long time. It’s been a long…and he made a remark the other day. He said, “you know, I’ve been married more than half of my life!” [laughs] (14:03) Interviewer: [laughs] A lot more! You don’t look at it that way. But we’re also friends. It’s the communication that you have to have. Interviewer: So it must have been very hard for you as a wife of someone who was a soldier in a very unpopular war. It was. It was. Interviewer: How did you cope? Coped by myself and with other military wives. We went to Germany in ’73 and he was squad sergeant there. And I, like, adopted the new wives because it’s like, the thing with the military wife, my saying…and I think it comes back from my background…is Freddy decided the military to be his life, to be his job. I had to support that. The military came first. His family came second. (15:00) I raised the kids. He was gone a lot, TDY [Temporary Duty]. So I raised the kids. Everybody says, “Oh, you’ve got so polite kids. Your grandchildren are so polite. �They shake your hand and say, ‘yes, sir,’ ‘no, sir.’” Freddy says to … “Man, I did such a good job.” No, honey. You helped make them, but guess what? [laughs] I raised them. I was there at the soccer games. I was there at the cheerleading game, the football games for the daughter. And I said…because he was TDY all the time. He left, he was in the Marshall training unit from Fort Meade, he left in April and he’s back in October. But he’d pop in on weekends when they were… Interviewer: So the summers when the kids were home all the time, he wasn’t anywhere near? Nope, and I just kept…I think that’s why I’m so involved with the grandchildren. I was always involved with the kids. Because I wanted them to know we were here. Interviewer: Did the kids resent the military and the degree to which they missed their dad? (16:00) If you talked to my son right now and he’s forty three years old, he will say yes. He says, “I never had a dad.” He says, “That’s why I’m different with my son. I go to every baseball game. Because I used to look up at the stands and it was always my mom.” Interviewer: What about your daughter? My daughter, she’s very close to Fred. And he didn’t see any cheerleading because he was gone. And I think they had a bond that no one…daughters and fathers have something. I don’t know what it is. But he had a bond. And my son, I think, resents a little of it. When he was a teenager…but I said, boys are different. Girls you kind of cuddle more and watch over. You can take care, you know…at that time, oh, the boys can take care of themselves. It’s the girls that the heart gets broken. (17:01) Which it’s not true! The boys get heartbroken too with first love or �whatever. I said, but my son met the guys…we have gatherings that we hold in Maryland like every two years, we’ll have a gathering. And the first one my son got to meet some of the guys. Interviewer: And these are all Ripcord people? And these are all Ripcord people and they bring their families. And the kids can hear. And my son went and stood up in front of everybody with tears in his eyes and said, “I want to thank all of yous for letting my father come home. I understand my father finally.” Interviewer: So it took that long? It took that year, that long, for him to understand his father. Interviewer: So if Freddy didn’t talk much about his experiences when he back? No. Very little. Interviewer: Did he talk to you? I mean, he didn’t talk to the kids. He talked to some, sometimes with me. I could tell by his…he has a lot of body language, so I could tell he’s get…he never watched any movies, nothing on TV. He will not watch any war stories. (18:05) With him staying in the military and training, he focused on his training. So his was training troops that knew nothing about Ripcord. They knew about Vietnam. “Oh you’re a Vietnam vet.” You know. But they didn’t know because Ripcord was never known. It was all hush-hush. So to say, he talked some, but not a lot and I think that’s why he has such strong body language because it’s coming out. And he didn’t really know how. Interviewer: Has it benefitted him having this connection with Ripcord now? Ripcord has saved us, saved him. The kids can tell you, he’s a different person. Interviewer: That’s wonderful. Why do you think that is? Because he met the guys and they talk and they all have gone through the same thing. And I’ve talked to several of the wives. There’s some that’s here the first time and one’s been married just �like us, dated through high school and everything. And she says, “He never talked. (19:08) He never talked to us but we knew something was wrong. But since they’ve been meeting and Ripcord…” We’re a family. It’s not our school reunion. You know, when you go and say I’m going to a school reunion. You’re going to see the guy you dated when you were in the tenth grade and never seen him again. So we are a family and we keep in contact by Facebook and email. We keep in contact with… “Are you going to the reunion?” And blah blah blah. We do Facetime. Jay, one of his sergeants, will call and he’s out deer hunting and he says, “Man, look at this deer!” And we’ll keep in contact. Ripcord has been a savior to my husband. Completely different person. Interviewer: Because when he came back from Vietnam, like a lot of soldiers I imagine, he didn’t get any kind of appreciation… Nothing. Interviewer: Now some soldiers talked about they had been spit on or called names or whatever. Had that happened to him? (20:01) I picked him up at the airport. He was spit on and he was called a f-ing murderer. Right in front of me and my mother. And we were right up by the Washington airport. Interviewer: Just some passerby? It was passerby, hippie, that we called hippie, with the long hair and the hippiefied. Interviewer: What did you do? Nothing. It was like, I don’t believe what I just heard. I don’t believe it. Interviewer: Was he in uniform? �He was in uniform. He was in uniform. In fact, when we were coming out of the airport, one of the other guys from his high school was going into ‘Nam, going to ‘Nam. They bypassed right in the airport. Interviewer: Did they say anything to each other? And Freddy just said, “Good luck.” Interviewer: Wow. Said, “Good luck.” And like, Freddy he goes and sometimes I think he has maybe a chip on his shoulder because he doesn’t have a Purple Heart. He was never wounded in Vietnam. (21:04) He was…four out of his unit that never got wounded. And he says, “You know, what we went through, I don’t see how I never got wounded. I really don’t.” Interviewer: What was his position there? Point man, which is actually the first person that goes out into the jungle. Interviewer: And he managed to do that and not get shot? Yep. Interviewer: That’s pretty remarkable. And I told him a guardian angel was on him. Interviewer: At the very least. That’s all I have to…that’s the only thing I can say. Guardian angel was sitting on his shoulder. And he met a priest in Vietnam. It was Father Mathis, if I’m not mistaken. He came to Aberdeen Proving Ground and I was eight months pregnant at the time. He called me and I went and met him. He says, “You know, two weeks ago I was giving mass and your husband was there and I told him I was going to Aberdeen Proving Ground and I would look you up.” And he says, “What do you do during the day?” and everything and I says, “You know, my father, with �being in the military, I never listened to any news.” (22:06) When the news came on, he listened to it, I left it. I left it. He said, “You need to go somewhere.” He said, “You believe what your husband tells you in the letters because if you start thinking, you’ll go crazy.” Interviewer: And did you do that? Did you leave? I used to leave every news report. I used to leave. Interviewer: When he came back, did you start watching the news? Yes, [laughs] I did. I thought, “Wow! This is why I really didn’t want to watch the news!” But he would never. He wouldn’t. Interviewer: Freddy? Yep. He would not. Interviewer: So avoiding talking about it, avoiding looking at it. Yep. It was in the back of his head and he avoided everything. It’s like, we talk now about guys going to VA for therapy and everything. He’s never been to VA for therapy. I keep on saying, “You need to go to the VA.” (23:01) He says, “No, I don’t.” And I have to admit, he doesn’t. Because the Ripcord family is his therapy and he keeps in touch. We go once a month to go up and see Frank Marshall up in New Jersey. Just take a ride. I go, “Frank, we’re getting out of town. We’re coming up for dinner.” We come back home that night or we may stay over. But that’s his therapy, being around these guys. Interviewer: Does that help you too? It does. It really does because I hear stories and I’m going, “Man! You did that? You did this?” And I understand. Interviewer: Does it surprise you, some of the things you hear that he did? Yes. �Interviewer: Why is that? Because I can actually see him at the age of twenty, twenty one, doing that. Because I look at my grandson now, eighteen. I’m going, “Oh my God. I was married at nineteen! That’s a year older than…” And then I’m going, “Your grandfather was drafted.” And I’m looking at him, I’m going, “Look how young you look!” (24:00) And I’m going, “Oh my God, you were doing that at the same age as our, two years more, than what our oldest grandchild will be doing. How did you do it?” And Freddy just looked at it as a job. He was brought up in a strict family. You work for your living. So the military, he looked at the appointment as his job. How he ever made it, I don’t know because he doesn’t know his North, South, East or West [laughs]. I do all the driving! If I go and say, “Give someone directions from our house to his best friend’s house, Sam’s house.” He couldn’t tell you what street. “Just go down there and then you turn and then go down.” Interviewer: But not which direction you turn? Nope. Interviewer: What do you suppose accounts for that? I think because he was brought up in a family that lived off the land. His father hunted. He killed his first deer at nine. So I think when he got in the jungle, it was like, “Hey, I’m hunting. (25:02) So I have to watch for this, have to watch for this.” That’s the only thing I can think that … but to put him on land now? Lord, have mercy! Everybody have trouble going anywhere with him. Even if it’s straight 95 from Maryland to Florida, he would get lost. Somehow. He was in a backup one time on 95 up in Maryland. I was up in Massachusetts visiting my aunt. He calls me, on his cell phone, “I don’t know how to get out of this backup.” He says, “It was a twenty seven mile, twenty seven mile…twenty seven car pileup because of fog.” I said, “Well, �what exit are you at?” “I’m at exit twenty two.” I said, “Well, is that Route 7?” “Yeah.” I said, “Get off at Route 7.” “I can’t get off Route 7!” I says, “It goes the same was as 95!” I said… Interviewer: Trust me! [laughs] And he did. He stayed for seven hours in that backup. (26:01) Finally he got off of it after he got past Baltimore and he kind of knew his way and it was 11:30 at night he called. He said, “I’m home.” And I tease him all the time. “How did you do this in ‘Nam? How did you do this in ‘Nam?” Interviewer: It sounds like you two make a pretty good team. We do [laughs]. Interviewer: You said you’d been brought up Catholic. And was he as well? He was brought up Catholic. I was not. Interviewer: Oh, okay. I was not brought up Catholic. I was brought up in a very Methodist, strict household. Interviewer: Was there a problem when you two married? Yes and no. Interviewer: Because that was before the days of Vatican II, so… I had to convert. I’m a strong believer because I was brought up in a Methodist…we went to Sunday School every Sunday. I was involved. I taught Sunday School when I was a teenager. And I used to see the kids have one parent there, not two. And I said to my husband, I always said, when I got married it was going to be one religion in the household. (27:08) I’m not going to pull the kids apart. You know, this one go there, that one goes there. I said, I’m not going to do it. Becoming Catholic…in those days, you went to Catechism and they convert a lot. And I �said, how can I ask him to come to my religion? So I made the decision to go, to become Catholic. Interviewer: You didn’t think it would be fair to ask him to become…? I didn’t think so because his parents were still very much, his mother was very much into the Catholic religion. Every time she got sick, it was on a Sunday and when she died it was on a Sunday. Interviewer: Okay. So she just was…if they went on vacation, first thing she looked for was a church. What time was Mass? She made sure she went to Mass. (28:00) So that’s how he was brought up. You went to church. So I says, well, I’ll convert. So I sat my parents down and I just said, “I’m converting and we want to have a full mass for our wedding.” And my father says, “That’s your decision.” Interviewer: Going back to that thing where they’re not going to tell you how to do it. Okay. Yep. They said, “It’s your decision.” Interviewer: Was the church important to you all as a family growing or did you drift away? It was but then we drifted away with being in the military, him being gone. When he came home we went to church, you know, on leave. We went to church all the time with the kids. We didn’t push it on our kids because it was actually pushed on Freddy. You have to do this. And Freddy was one, from being in the military, “I’m not making my kids have to do anything. I’m going to ask. If they want to do it, that’s fine. If they don’t want to do it, it’s fine with me too. Because �they have to live with their own feelings.” (29:01) And that’s how we brought our kids up. Do they go to church now? No, but they do their own thing. Interviewer: Lots of changes from… It’s a lot…you know, when we went to church, you went to church. Interviewer: Right. I just think the more, the generations are getting pushback… I mean, Sunday School used to be a big thing when I went to Sunday School. It was, oh, let’s get dressed up. We’d do this. They kids just, they’re not into it anymore and the parents are pushing it. Most of the kids’ parents both work. My mother never worked. She stayed home. The father brought the money in. Nowadays… Interviewer: And you were sort of half and half. Mmm hmm. And so nowadays, mothers and fathers both work. So they look at, probably, weekends, instead of wasting… you know, it’s not wasted time but they look at wasted time going to church for an hour, hour and a half. We could be doing something else, doing yard work, doing this, doing that. Interviewer: Having fun. Sleeping in. All those other things. (30:02) That’s what…mainly. Interviewer: Now you were outside Washington, D.C. then for most of your adult life, I guess. Did you pay a lot of attention to politics that were going on in the capital? No. I stayed away from politics to be very honest with you. I’m a strong believer…the kids used to say, “Who are you voting for?” I said, “Whoever wins.” And that’s what my mother used to tell us. I says, “Who are you going to vote for?” “Whoever wins.” �Interviewer: And was that true or did you just say that because you didn’t want to tell them? Half of it was yes, half of it was no [laughs]. Interviewer: I won’t ask which half! [laughs] Yeah, I did good. I came from Massachusetts. It was always the Kennedys. That’s how I was brought up. That’s how Massachusetts…Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy. (31:00) And then when they got out, it was like, oh, what do I do? Where do I go? Do I want to be a Democrat? Do I want to be this? Do I just want to be a middle? I says, let me be in the middle and see which way I want to go and everything. Interviewer: Well, when you say you didn’t pay a whole lot of attention to politics, did you in terms of the war? So when Johnson announced he was going escalate the war, did you notice that? Or did you notice when Nixon said we’re leaving? I did notice that because it was in our era, but after that it was like politics just went over my head because we weren’t involved anymore. When they did the wall and when they closed the war or whatever, I said to myself, thank God! But during Desert Storm, Freddy got a letter and it said in the letter…and we were already retired out of the military but they can actually pull you back in ‘til you’re fifty five. (32:02) Interviewer: Yeah, I’ve heard that. So he got his letter and I says, “This letter states that you can tell your employer that you got your letter and you will have a forty eight hour notice.” Interviewer: And who was he working for at that point? CSC. He worked with CSC which is science computer corporation [Computer Sciences Corporation] and he’s head of security. �Interviewer: Oh, okay. And so I said, “What are you going to do if you get called?” He says, “I don’t know.” I said, “What do you mean you don’t know?” He said, “Well, I don’t know. I’m a little older now. I’m a little heavier now.” He says, “Now, if I can go back and do my instruction I’ll go in a minute.” He says, “But to go out there and do that PT and all that running. I don’t know about all that. I’m a little over the hill.” And he didn’t have to get called back but he did get his little notice. Interviewer: Did us going to war again in, well, Iraq and Afghanistan and all this other…does it bring back bad memories for him? (33:05) And for you as well? Do you know that was the first time from Vietnam, when Desert Storm, when everything started coming out about Vietnam. He used to watch the welcomes on TV. Interviewer: What did he think? He hated it. Interviewer: Why is that? Because he said, “We deserved that too.” Interviewer: Yeah. We deserved it. We didn’t deserve to be called murderers. We didn’t deserve to be spit on or have, like I said, all of our friends just disowned us. He said, “We don’t deserve that.” And I try to tell him that we learn from each war what not to do. And like I spoke with you before that the Iraq and the Afghanistan… their parents are the Vietnam era. So do they want their kids to be felt like what America did to the Vietnams? (34:00) No. So that’s why they’re getting all these welcomes. Plus, like I told Freddy, he didn’t go in as a unit. He left Maryland as one person. And met up, in Vietnam, and then got a unit. Now, they just take units so you’re with your �friend in reserves, well you’re going to Iraq with him. So they do it as a unit now. They don’t do individuals. Interviewer: Does that make a big difference do you think? I think it does. Interviewer: How so? Because they know each other. Right now, they know where you’re going in. To not know…in Vietnam, Freddy went over to Vietnam not knowing nobody except for a couple guys who went through AIT and basic training with him and they met up in San Francisco and went over with the big bird over Vietnam and then they stayed together. Michael [Grim? illegible] was one who got killed in Vietnam, and a couple other guys that Freddy met and they stayed together but… (35:04) I think it makes a difference going as a group because you train as a group all summer long or…instead of one person, then you get trained. Interviewer: So it’s that companion, companionship’s really important. Mmm hmm. I think it is. Interviewer: How about for you? For me, I tried to hook up with the wives from the Ripcord and people can say that…there’s a couple that comes from Oklahoma, Linda and Rudy Foreman, and she says, “You know Carole, we met three years ago. I feel like we’ve been friends for years.” And we see each other once a year. Interviewer: It’s that military experience and Vietnam experience. It’s just a closeness and we communicate. And we can talk what we go through. Because you can’t talk to your girlfriend whose husband’s never been in Vietnam. She’ll look at you and go, �“You’re crazy!” you know? (36:03) “My husband’s not that way.” But now they open up and we realize we have all lived the hell with the guys, so we’re not alone. Interviewer: When you say that, if I can, what kind of hell was it? Not knowing. Walking on eggshells almost every day. Interviewer: After he’s back? After he’s back. Interviewer: It’s bad enough when he’s there. After he’s back… Walking on eggshells. Interviewer: What were you afraid was going to happen? You hear of horror stories. You hear of guys going off the deep end, killing their families. Interviewer: Right. You hear of them killing themselves. You hear of them turning into alcoholics. You hear of them turning to heroin, doing pot every day. And you’re fearing, is this what he’s coming back like this? That was a lot of my thought too. (37:00) Interviewer: So you were worried before he even showed up at the door? I was worried before he even…he left…I’ll put it this way. He left as my young husband, happy and loving life. He came back almost hating life. The difference was … and the coldness. He had more cold and I remember when his mother passed away. She passed away at his house and the people came in to take her and he said, “Don’t zip the bag.” Interviewer: Why’s that? And I said to him… so they went and zipped the bag. They put his mom in the body bag and zipped the bag. He zipped it back down. He said, “I asked you not to do that.” And I’m going, well what’s the problem? I’m thinking to myself, what’s the problem here? They zipped again. �And he zipped it. He said, “Don’t take her out of there. Don’t do that again in this house.” And what it was, it was looking at a body bag. (38:02) Interviewer: Oh. Well, yeah. It was looking at his friends being in body bags. Interviewer: Right. So and then he explained to me. Not one tear ever came out of him when his mother died until we get to the graveside and everybody left and he collapsed. And he just keeps everything balled up inside until something hits. So it’s also what I used to tell the kids. We walk on eggshells because we don’t know what’s going to … he’s not a violent man but just the hurt, hurtness. And you don’t want to see your loved one hurt. Interviewer: No. But then you don’t know how to comfort him. Interviewer: Which makes it very hard for you. And the kids and stuff, so… But now, like I said, since he’s found the Ripcord, a completely different person. Interviewer: So the young husbands come back. It really is! Interviewer: That’s nice. (39:00) I’m glad. You know, the smile and the happiness. He’s always been happy go-lucky. Even at his work, they’re, “Oh, he’s the greatest guy!” And I’m going, “Oh my god, if you ever knew.” [laughs] If you ever knew what I have lived with! But that’s between the families and everything. And he is a happy go-lucky guy. And doing this every year and we try to tell all the Ripcord vets, “you need to get your story out.” �Interviewer: Yes, you do. Keep telling them that. You need to get your story out. Call your… we’ve got Veterans’ Day coming up. Go home, write your newspaper. Send them the article that’s on our website about the 502. You were in this, and you’d be surprised how many newspapers will call you. Interviewer: There does seem to be a real shift in people’s perceptions of how they need to treat veterans. Even the ones from that era. (40:03) My father-in-law’s a World War II vet and we go, we take him to John Hopkins and we go to John Hopkins and some lady came up to him, we were in a lab, and she says, “Can I take a picture of you and your father together?” And I said, “Freddy…” Because he had his Vietnam hat on. He says, “You don’t see this much, a Vietnam vet and a World War II vet together.” She said, “Can I please take your picture?” And I knew about it because she sent me the picture on the iPhone. I’m going, “Whose is this telephone number?” [laughs] “Who’s this taking a picture of my husband?” And it was down at John Hopkins lab. And I said, that’s where America has come. They have finally, I want to say, broken the era that vets are demanding people and to be proud that you are a vet. You don’t have to hide anymore. (41:01) Interviewer: You’re a veterans’ wife. Let me tell you, I have a shirt that says, “I’m a Veterans’ Wife” and I wear it quite a bit and I’m proud of it. Interviewer: Good. You should be. And we all should be. Interviewer: Thank you so much for telling your story. Well, thank you for asking. I’ve enjoyed it. Interviewer: So have we. �I hope we get some news out to people. You don’t have to hide. Interviewer: That’s good. Thank you. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gilbert, Carol (Interview transcript and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Carol Description An account of the resource Carol Gilbert was born in Nuremburg, Germany on July 25, 1950. After two years in Germany, her family moved back to the United States. She got married soon after graduating high school, but unfortunately her husband was drafted to Vietnam soon after. Freddie Gilbert went to Fort Bragg, North Carolina for basic training and Fort McClellan, Alabama for advanced individual training. After that, Freddie Gilbert briefly visited home, and Carol Gilbert became pregnant during that time. The two exchanged letters daily, and Carol Gilbert sent him a telegram when their son was born. Freddie Gilbert came home a few months later and continued his service in Fort Meade, Maryland. While her husband served, Carol Gilbert worked as a bookkeeper and a babysitter. While they were living on base, some of their friends did not support the war and were hostile to the Gilberts. To this day, the Gilberts’ closest friends are those who have served in the military. They still meet with some of their military friends regularly, and Carol Gilbert is always surprised when hearing about her husband’s service in Vietnam. In 1973, Freddie Gilbert was deployed to Germany and Carol Gilbert befriended many military wives while she was there. Even at home, Freddie Gilbert was often on Temporary Duty, so Carol Gilbert did most of the work raising their children because her husband was usually away. Carol Gilbert converted from Methodist to Catholic when she got marries because Freddie Gilbert was Catholic. Religion was important to them, but they did not attend church as often when Freddie Gilbert was away. When he came back on leave, they went to church as a family but did not force their kids to join them. After Freddie Gilbert was discharged from the military and working for Computer Sciences Corporation, he received a letter notifying him that he could get called back into the military until he was 55. Fortunately, he was not called back. Carol Gilbert recalls her husband's demeanor becoming cold when he came back from Vietnam. However, joining the Fire Support Base Ripcord Association helped him return to his "happy-go-lucky" self. Now that America is past the era when veterans were called murderers and belittled in public, Carol Gilbert is proud to be a veterans’ wife. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Coryell, Janet (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-10-09 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GilbertC1548V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7aaa1ec2b6e9a1595d5e57237cfaffb2.mp4 66a44f831f2e805ee316d227691d2823 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8b9a28bf38b14682dbaf1ed480f07aa6.pdf 4f143ab1b77f6946a069d443ae32e3f1 PDF Text Text GVSU Veteran’s History Project Korean War Lyle Gibbs Interview Total Time: 34:44            (00:03) Decided to join the army with a couple of uncles; signed up for three years o Assigned to 1st Cavalry Division in Japan o Spent 21 months in Japan o Occupation duty, guard duty, lots of training (1:12) Had just turned 19 when he went to Japan o Enjoyed it here; took many pictures and traveled during his time off o Stationed in Tokyo (2:03) Took pictures of General MacArthur but they had to be destroyed later (2:39) After being in Japan, he was sent to Korea when the war started there in 1950 (3:01) When they were shipped over to Korea, much of their division had little training and inexperienced leaders o Considered 40% combat ready when they transferred to Korea (3:53) Remembers landing in a town called Po Hang Dong o Saw a lot of village people o Sent into the hills later that night o Communicated with the Company Commander o Two dead lieutenants the next morning (5:00) The next day they went on a train to a battlefield south of Taejon, Korea o Didn’t hardly have time to set up o A sergeant came by and said he lost his whole platoon o Were then loaded on trucks and fired rifles on their way out (6:56) Pusan Perimeter – they finally had enough troops to make a solid line o Enemy couldn’t get through their lines from this moment on o For awhile they worried that they’d be run off into the ocean because they were so outnumbered (7:37) Inchon Invasion – Mr. Gibbs was in the 7th division o They went up the coastline and attacked, which significantly reduced the North Korean troops o Got orders to join the Marines (8:25) 1st Regiment in Pyongyang; captured this city (capital) (8:40) Got orders to capture Shenyang Po, which was a port city o Got a ride on the front bumper of a big truck; it was very cold at the time o No enemy troops in this location, kept moving �              (9:15) Ended up a half mile from Yalu River o Burning village o Could see Chinese troops coming from across the border (11:08) Their army commander ended up being killed in a jeep accident o The next commander had to get rid of other commanders who weren’t doing their jobs right o His first orders were to take charge and not to retreat; “Let the Chinese know who’s boss.” (12:03) Was relieved shortly after this o Later got orders to attack a big hill o Each company was assigned a ridge line; sent up in 15 minute increments o Mr. Gibbs’ company went up the valley, they saw Chinese troops approaching (13:30) Later he learned he’d be going back to the US (14:15) The next day they were attacked but ran off the enemy (14:35) Spent 11.5 months in Korea (14:43) Mr. Gibbs was in charge of a mortar section o In charge of this the first month he was in Korea o Later took over as platoon sergeant o Was later in charge of 42 men (15:23) Mr. Gibbs recalls many times where he was almost killed (15:36) He didn’t particularly like the army but he made the best of his time there (15:55) When he got back to the US, many people weren’t in favor of the Korean War o Was one of the last people to get sent home (16:40) When he returned to the US, he had another 10 months left in the army o Trained recruits o Korean veterans in the company o Commander was a reserve officer and didn’t like the combat veterans; gave them bad deals  Mr. Gibbs had an opportunity to tell the commander what he thought about how he ran the company  3 days later he was transferred to the Troop Movement Office – this was advantageous for Mr. Gibbs  Worked here until he got discharged; about 4 months before he got out of the army (18:33) 22 at the time he was discharged; went into the service at 18 (18:47) Says his army experience changed him o Had malaria when he got home, didn’t realize he had it while overseas (21:23) Ended up being good friends with the battalion commander �     (22:54) Made friends in the army but some of them were killed (23:40) Said it’s good to join the army if there isn’t war going on because of the traveling experience (26:10) Was put in for a silver star but the paperwork wasn’t filed right; Mr. Gibbs tore up the papers o Said there were many people who got medals but didn’t deserve them (28:50) Recalls a time where they captured some North Koreans during a firefight o This was when he got put in for a silver star o Believes the company commander deserved a Medal of Honor (34:27) Appreciates the time he spent in the service but wouldn’t want to do it again � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gibbs, Lyle (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gibbs, Lyle Description An account of the resource Lyle Gibbs enlisted in the Army in the late 1940s and was assigned to the 1st Cavalry Division in Japan. When the Korean War broke out, his unit joined the fighting early on, was driven back to the Pusan Perimeter, where they held. He then joined the 7th Division and served with it on the drive toward the Yalu and back. He saw a good deal of combat, and spent time leading a mortar section and later serving as a platoon sergeant. After ten months, he rotated home and completed the last few months of his enlistment in the US. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Colton (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-05-16 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GibbsL1059V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/540dcf0b9249f90ebe5841d02af944a2.mp4 8cc71c759d1226aa3ac77fa4b259644a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f5f1eef9df230517ab495716c31c49b0.pdf baf86f6d524c03e0c435e4594bcf4cee PDF Text Text Byron Gibbs (1:18:33) (00:15) Background Information • • • • • • Byron was born in Clare, Michigan on December 7, 1916 His father was a banker and his mother stayed at home His father lost his job during the depression and had to sell magazines During high school Byron mowed lawns for 15 cents apiece and worked part time in a grocery store He graduated from high school in 1934 and began going to Michigan Tech, where he had received a scholarship Byron graduated from college in 1938 and after that it was hard for him to find a job (6:45) Drafted 1941 • Byron had been living in East Detroit and was well aware of the impending war; the Detroit airport often had bomber planes leaving for Europe with British insignia on them • Byron was sent to Camp Grant Illinois for testing and then to Camp Livingston in Louisiana • He began training with Company C of the 126th Infantry Unit (13:15) Training • During training Byron learned how to take care of weapons, worked on KP, drilled and marched a lot • He had been training when Pearl Harbor was attacked and they realized that the US would be getting more involved in the war • Things began to change on base and they were worried about sabotage, so Byron spent some time guarding bridges (18:25) Overseas 1942 • Byron was sent to Massachusetts and assumed that he would be going to Europe, but then was sent on a train to San Francisco • They were sent on a luxury linger through the Pacific and the weather was nice • There was good food on the ship, but not enough bunks and Byron had to sleep on deck • The trip lasted 10 days to reach Australia (26:40) Australia • Byron landed in Adelaide and continued training • They stayed in a hotel and then later took train to Brisbane • They had to switch trains every time they reached a different part of Australia because they all used different size rails �• Byron had more training in Brisbane and marched throughout the country side (36:30) Buna • The area was very hilly and covered with very tall grass • The first day there they were bringing in supplies to the Australian soldiers • They eventually took over the positions of the Australians and began attacking the Japanese • The Japanese never fought at night; they changed their positions at night and always held their positions during the day, never moving forward • Byron had a rifle from WWI that only held 5 shots • He had been working with company C, but was later transferred to a signal corps (43:00) Leaving New Guinea • Byron had applied for a position in the signal corps and received it because he had a degree in electrical engineering • It was good news because he got to go back to the US; the weather in New Guinea had been horrible and it continuously rained • He was told he told he would have to walk back to the airstrip, which was about 100 miles away, but he got a ride in a jeep • He then took a train to Port Moresby where he actually got to sit down to a meal • Byron flew back to Australia and then went back to the US (49:50) Signal Corps Training • Byron was working near Harvard and intercepting code to look for enemy communications • He had more classes at MIT, engineering refresher courses with other men that had engineering degrees • Byron was later sent to Florida for radar training with planes flying over the golf • He worked on anti-sub radar patrol in Palm Beach (54:40) Manila • There were many dead Japanese scattered on the ground and still some stragglers left over throughout the woods • The area showed signs of destruction and all the lights had been blown out so it was completely dark at night • Byron was an officer in charge at the signal center and they worked with quite a few civilians, who got along well with the Americans • Byron worked on cryptography with the signal corps and they worked together with some Australians �• • They Americans and Australians did not like to share their information and kept to themselves Much of the Australian equipment was old and outdated (1:02:05) General MacArthur • MacArthur had come to the Philippines to visit his office • The city streets were filled with men and civilians waiting to just get a glimpse of him as he passed by in his Jeep • The civilians saw him as a liberator and the American men thought very highly of him • Byron had known he was coming and was up to speed on daily news while working at the signal center (1:08:40) The End of the War • Byron was still working a lot in the signal center even after the Japanese had surrendered • He had been just short a few points of being sent home • Byron was eventually discharged and sent back to the West coast for processing • He went back to Michigan and quickly found a job working for a chemical company • Byron got married after being discharged and continued with the same company for 34 years • He also worked in the active reserve and attended meetings in Lansing, Michigan once a week � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gibbs, Byron (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gibbs, Byron Description An account of the resource Byron Gibbs was born in Clare, Michigan on December 7, 1916. He graduated from college in 1938 and was drafted into the Army in 1941. Byron trained in Louisiana with Company C of the 126th Infantry Regiment, 32nd (Red Arrow) Division, and was sent to Australia in 1942. They continued training in Australia, traveling to Adelaide and Brisbane and then were sent to New Guinea, where his unit fought at Buna. While that campaign continued, he was transferred back to the US for signal corps training, and eventually returned to the Pacific and served as a signalman at MacArthur's headquarters in the Philippines. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-10-19 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GibbsB Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4a24d080e09693dbc0e94208141fe7e8.mp4 cc1920548bca90a08247dbdfe3a400c5 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4402c7864c1ab0892a4e8bc911f9b214.pdf a53ee69fde0fe774ee4289bcd167998e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Jerome Gennrich World War II 1 hour 1 minute 31 seconds (00:00:34) Early Life -Born on August 11, 1923 in Detroit, Michigan -Attended a Catholic school through eighth grade -Did not attend high school -His father believed that he needed to get a job instead -Father, Anthony, worked as a carpenter and as a cabinet maker -Mother, Martha, was a housewife -He had five siblings -Three brothers and two sisters -Grew up in Detroit -Did odd jobs in woodworking for a while before he got a job through Chrysler -Worked at the Jefferson Plant in Detroit (00:06:06) Getting Drafted -He was sitting in the family living room when he heard FDR’s speech concerning Pearl Harbor -His father told him that he was going to go to war and fight -Jerome’s one brother was 4F (unfit for service) -Jerome’s other brother had already served in the military -Received a draft notice in the mail ordering him to report to the induction center in Detroit (00:08:23) Induction and Basic Training -While at the induction center he pulled KP (kitchen patrol) duty for a day -The next day he and the other recruits were shipped to Camp Kearns, Salt Lake City, Utah -Army base on the Great Salt Lake and outside of the Salt Lake City -Remembers that basic training was fairly uneventful -Mostly consisted of basic combat techniques -Hand to hand combat especially -Taught how to march -Taught how to properly clean and use a rifle -Made friends while in basic training -Arrived at Camp Kearns and began basic training in late spring of 1942 -First few days there were mostly forgettable and focused on learning to obey orders -Trained with an enjoyable group of people -Went on forced marches that lasted eight hours -Completed basic training in mid-summer of 1942 (00:13:00) Deployment to Europe -Shipped to New York City to board a troop ship there -The ship he went over on was the “Empress of Russia” -Dirty and cramped vessel -Eventually made landfall in a town near Glasgow, Scotland -Voyage took one hundred days [?] due to having to avoid U-Boats and German air raids �(00:14:35) Deployment to Northern Ireland -Went to a place near Belfast, Ireland after Scotland and made camp there -Met his first girlfriend while stationed in Belfast -Her name was Anne Mulvaney -Northern Irish high school girl -Met each other through a mutual friend -He was not in any specific unit at this point -Carried out ordinary camp duties during the day -Given nights and weekends off -Took liberty in Belfast so that he could visit Anne -Didn’t leave Northern Ireland until after the landing at D-Day and Normandy was secured (00:18:14) Deployment to France & Military Police Duty -Crossed to France by way of ship -Spent a night in a French chateau -After France he and his unit moved into Luxembourg and then Belgium -He was attached to a military police unit -Supported the 8th Air Force Army Air Corps while in England -Guarded bombers and a fuel depot -Supported the 9th Air Force Army Air Corps while in France -Guarded fighter planes -Did not spend much time in France -Primary duty there was to protect the aircraft (00:21:09) Belgium -Moved into Belgium, so that they could cross the Rhine River into Germany -Working with the 12th of 62nd Military Police Company -Just ordinary soldiers that were being used for police purposes -Had crossed through Luxembourg to reach Belgium -Made camp for a few days in Liege, Belgium (00:23:00) Germany -From Belgium he and his unit crossed the Rhine River into Germany -Crossed south of the Remagen/Ludendorff Bridge into Germany -Area had been laid to waste over the course of the war -German soldiers were surrendering and retreating en masse -Became responsible for guarding German POWs -Got decorated for crossing the Rhine River -His unit was responsible for guarding thousands of German prisoners -Kept them in a makeshift prison camp near Ansbach, Germany (00:26:26) Contact with the Enemy -Never saw direct combat with German forces -Remembers V1 and V2 rockets hitting London -British Spitfire fighters would take off and try to shoot them down -His unit never took casualties over the course of the war -He was never wounded -Only went to the field hospital in Londonderry due to pneumonia (00:28:22) Leaving Europe and Coming Home Pt. 1 -Shipped out of Germany in outdated boxcars �-Returned to the Belgian coast and boarded a liberty ship there (00:29:58) Details about the POWs Pt. 1 -German POWs were fed and allowed to maintain a sense of organization -Not treated any better or worse than Allied soldiers -Always kept them in the Ansbach prison camp -Didn’t have to transfer them to England, France, or to the U.S. (00:31:17) Living Conditions Pt. 1 -Never moved further east than Ansbach, Germany -Never entered into Austria -Area was occupied by the Russians -Some supplies were hard to get -Fresh fruit was particularly rare -Had to eat canned fruit instead -Never went hungry during his time in Europe (00:33:39) Details about the POWs Pt. 2 -He was able to be friendly with some of the POWs -A fair amount of them were just regular foot soldiers -SS and Gestapo troops were moved to separate camps -Some of the POWs could speak some English -They taught him a little bit of German as well -Didn’t keep in touch with any of the POWs that he made friends with (00:35:23) Living Conditions Pt. 2 -Lived in barracks while in Europe -Spent two winters in the English Isles and the winter of 1944-45 in mainland Europe -In both places they had access to stoves for heating -Lived in tents in Northern Ireland -Learned how to quickly accept, adapt, and adjust to different living conditions (00:36:29) Commendations and Rank -He was awarded various campaign ribbons -One of which was due to crossing into Germany -Awarded Army Good Conduct Medal for excellent behavior and efficiency -He was awarded the European Theatre of Operations Medal -Attained the rank of private first class (00:37:30) Personal Relationships in the Army Pt. 1 -Formed a lasting friendship with one soldier that he served with -Man was from Indiana -Wound up marrying an Irish girl and they both moved to the U.S. (00:38:11) Leaving Europe and Coming Home Pt. 2 -He was in Ansbach, Germany for Victory in Europe (VE) Day May 1945 -In December 1945 they were loaded onto boxcars and were shipped back to the coast -Boarded a liberty ship on the coast of Belgium -Only took a week to make it back to the United States -No longer had to worry about avoiding German submarines or aircraft -Landed in New York City -Went to Camp Atterbury, Indiana to get discharged from the Army -Formally left the Army in early January 1946 �-Felt a sense of homesickness upon leaving the Army -Knew that he would miss the rigidity of military living -Returned home to his parents in Detroit -Went to his father’s place of work and rode back to the house with him (00:42:07) Downtime in the Army and Emotional Adjustments -Stayed in touch with family and friends by way of letters -Used V-Mail (mail service that used microfilm to speed up postal system) -Made no telephone calls home while he was overseas -At first he found it stressful readjusting to civilian life -Got refused being served at bars because he was underage despite his veteran status -Didn’t feel stressed while serving in Europe -Took it one day at a time -Treated it like a regular job -Got treated to USO shows in Europe -Saw famous people, like Bob Hope, perform for them -Famous bands would come over and perform for them as well -Played pool during downtime -Allowed to go into Ansbach, Germany for liberty -German citizens were not happy with the American presence -Also was able to visit other German cities that had been deemed safe and secure (00:46:23) Details about the POWs Pt. 3 -Remembers having to stop a German prisoner that ran past his guard post -Thought that the prisoner was trying to do something illegal -Fired a few warning shots in the air and the prisoner stopped -Turns out that it was just a simple misunderstanding on the prisoner’s part -German prisoners were fairly complacent being prisoners of war -They were happy as long as they continued to have food and a bed (00:48:07) Concentration Camps -Remembers seeing the concentration camps -Didn’t take part in any of the liberations -Saw one first hand after it had been liberated by the Allies (00:49:31) Personal Relationships in the Army Pt. 2 -While in the Army he had been led by a mix of officers -Some were competent and others were totally inept -Generally got along with his fellow soldiers -Wishes that he had taken the time to record day to day life in a journal (00:50:18) Life after the War Pt. 1 -After being discharged from the Army he took a few weeks to rest -He eventually returned to work for Chrysler at the Jefferson Plant -Made that his lifelong civilian career -Worked for Chrysler for forty two years -Retired from Chrysler in the late 1980s -Worked as a parts dispatcher -Chose not to return to school upon returning home (00:52:32) Involvement with Veterans’ Groups -Joined the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) �-Joined the American Legion -Eventually let that membership lapse and chose not to renew it -Was more active, and is still active, in the VFW -Didn’t form any long term friendships while in either group (00:53:39) Reflections on Service -Service made him realize that regular people are just used as pawns by governments -Learned that governments have no respect for their citizens -Remembers that the U.S. Army had issues with segregation -Never made an effort to go to, or host, a reunion with his former unit -Service made him a different person -Taught him to respect other people’s rights -Taught him that everyone is entitled to their opinions and beliefs (00:56:30) Life after the War Pt. 2 -Got married after the war to a woman named Helen -They have been married for sixty three years -She still lives in their home in Detroit while he’s in the Veteran’s Hospital -They had three children -Two sons: Jerome Jr. and Hans -One daughter: Faith � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gennrich, Jerome (Interview outline and video), 2014 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gennrich, Jerome Description An account of the resource Jerome Gennrich was born in 1923 in Detroit, Michigan. Prior to serving in the Army he worked for Chrysler at the Jefferson Plant. He was drafted in early 1942 and trained at Camp Kearns outside of Salt Lake City, Utah. Later that year he was sent across the Atlantic and served first in Northern Ireland and then in England, providing security for airbases used by the 8th and 9th Air Forces. After D-Day he was deployed to France and was attached to the 12th of the 62nd Military Police Company. He and his unit moved through France, Luxembourg, Belgium, crossed the Rhine River into Germany. His unit guarded German prisoners of war at a camp near Ansbach until he was sent home in December, 1945. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Erichsen, Wallace (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-01-24 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GennrichJ1570V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/61a92d967ef25ef6f65c0c7637fb4e65.mp4 899f19259fedeedf5ff39cb01cd520a0 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cfd750e093a355ce51a7f03eebb7a02a.pdf bb375da6c2fdfd062a8c156056adb6f6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Notes Length: 45:56 Lawrence Millard Gary WWII Veteran United States Army; November 1942 to March 1946 Infantry (0:00) Info - Born January 1st 1932 (Says 1992, later clarified as '32) Lived in Wheaton, IL Was registered for draft, but volunteered to enter early (2:42) Training Entered at Fort Grant, IL BCT at Camp House, TX Unit was F Co 341st Infantry Regiment (86th "Blackhawk" Div) Received Additional mechanics training at Ft Benning, GA and Amphibious training in CA (9:14) Deployments Embarked NY, NY to Le Havre, France. Deployed to Metz Part of 4-Man vehicle recon team ambushed at intersection; German fixed positions with interlocking fields of fire; Officer KIA, Gary wounded - no citation. Sent to the eagle's nest, entire formation recalled to the U.S., assigned to Camp Grubbers, OK Assigned to the Philippines, VJ Day in route, secured isolated pockets of resistance in northern Luzon (25:45) Conditions - Discusses disparities in conditions between Officers and Enlisted Hispanics in his unit, no negroes (not his exact words) Discussed Patton and Eisenhower Discussed pay and habits Married 1 1/2 years out of service (42:56) Various photos and documents � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gary, Lawrence M. (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gary, Lawrence M. Description An account of the resource Lawrence M. Gary is a WW II Veteran who served in the United States Army in both the European and Pacific Theaters. He was assigned to F Co 341st Infantry Regiment (86th "Blackhawk" Div.), spending the majority of his military service time in the divisional motor pool. Although he saw very little combat personally, he nonetheless witnessed the trauma and destruction that befell the peoples of Europe and South-East Asia during the twilight of WW II. Towards the end of the interview various forms, clippings and photos are displayed. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Gary, Joan (Interviewer) Waslawski, Sheila (Interviewer) Kavalam, Sonya (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Veterans Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-05-23 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GaryL Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f78475ecdfdddd444f9c1f7d90b1685a.mp4 bcf9dcc1a6664f6dcc00a50039d0a5da https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a18227c5dd06840602813a4aa9542d9d.pdf 9f549411fd60ff47ae6ed74890a4331d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Korean War Interviewee name: Donald Gary Length of Interview: 1hour 1minute Pre-Enlistment (00:45) • Childhood (00:50) o Gary was born in Rochester, New York in 1930. (01:10) • Family (01:11) o Grew up with 4 brothers and 1 sister. His father worked first as a landscaper but when the Depression came along he ended up as a foundry worker. (01:57) During this time his father had an unfortunate incident happen while Gary was in the service. Between 53’ and 54’ a 750 pound piece of 2 by 10 foundry material fell on his leg and shattered it. (02:40) • Education (03:10) o Gary finished high school and then attended Davenport University. Discusses how he moved out to Michigan and why he did so. (03:18) • Background to military service (04:55) o Gary devotes quite a bit of attention to his other brothers’ military experiences. One brother served with the National Guard of which he went to the Pacific. (05:15) ƒ Another brother was in the 101st Division in the Battle of Bastogne of which he describes briefly. (05:57) ƒ Also mentions that both survived the war and what happened to each of them afterwards. (07:08) ƒ A 3rd brother who had been in the Air Force went down to Panama and did photography work. (08:09) o Gary didn’t give much thought of serving until the war in Korea broke out. (08:53) Joined the military voluntarily on December 9th, 1950. (09:04) He mentions that he did not attend basic which was located at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas but instead was held in Rochester, New York until January. On �January 2nd he and 2 others were flown to the base which was located near San Antonio, Texas, of which upon arriving he had the option of choosing which branch he could join. (09:40) Enlistment/Basic Training (09:48) • Why he joined (09:58) o Joined the air force because he always had wanted to be an air force pilot. (10:07) o Discusses his first impressions of flying in an airplane since he had never flown in his life before that time. (11:09) • Where he went and what company he served with (11:36) o Briefly describes his first impressions of his training and of the instructors who trained him. (11:50) Mentions that he adapted easily to basic training while others got into trouble with girls. (12:50) ƒ Discusses briefly what types of trouble and punishments new recruits got into. (13:44) o The men he trained with during his 3 week period there were both white and black. The military at that time was desegregated. (14:31) ƒ Brief history lesson on how the military had moved with the times where as the state of Texas “was still fighting the Civil War.” (15:18) o For a brief period during and after basic training he worked in the office in Lubbock, Texas and describes his time there briefly. (16:05) ƒ Discusses how he became qualified for his office position. (17:25) Active Duty (18:05) • Where he went after basic training (18:06) o Spent 8 months in Lubbock and expected to be shipped out to Korea at anytime. (18:20) o From there he spent some time in Wichita, Kansas. (19:07) ƒ While in Wichita, for almost a year, he mentions how he met his wife and that while there he served as a statistical specialist. Briefly describes his responsibilities on base. (19:40) �ƒ Describes an encounter in some detail with a problematic sergeant who was giving one of his black employees problems in the office. (21:58) ƒ Also mentions how before he had come to the office there how relaxed the atmosphere but then once he was there the office became so much more efficient under his authority. (24:45) o From Wichita, he spent a period of 3 months in Denver, Colorado taking a course at a local university. (25:34) o • Afterwards, he went back to Wichita for an extended period of time. (26:16) ƒ While there, he talked with a friend who told him that he would soon be shipped out to Ramstein Air Base, Germany with the 12th Air Force. (26:45) ƒ Before he heard that he was going to Germany he believed he was bound for Korea all along. (27:23) Germany (27:31) o Background (27:32) ƒ Gives a brief history background of the events of the Cold War and its effects on Germany. (27:33) ƒ Gary mentions that he was on the base defense team digging trenches and practicing defensive measures. (27:40) ƒ He was based at the 12th Air Force Headquarters Base at Ramstein, Germany (28:00) Briefly describes the base he was stationed at in some detail. (28:24) ƒ He also mentions that the area and environment around Ramstein, this area being around the Black Forest was very historic. (28:44) ƒ According to his orders before he left for Germany he was supposed to head to Wiesbaden, Germany but instead was ordered to Ramstein instead. (30:32) ƒ Briefly backs up and describes his November Atlantic crossing aboard a bananas boat. Took 10 days to travel to Bremerhaven, Germany where he boarded a train to get to his destination. (31:10) �o While in Germany, he makes note of how the bigger German cities were repaired fairly well while the smaller towns still showed signs of the affects of WWII. (33:32) o Gary would often when he went into town wheel and deal with many of the German civilians. While on base, he mentions that Germans were responsible for the cooking and the cleaning of the barracks. (34:46) o During the German occupation, the U.S. dollars he possessed were converted to Marks. (36:14) o His main job while there his job was aircraft reporting which entailed compiling a list of the condition of all aircraft belonging to the 12th Air Force. (37:34) o Briefly mentions an incident of a CO-19 transport aircraft crashing in the Alps. (38:39) o Mentions that while in Wichita while being in charge of the record keeping that he had maintained very good records. While in Germany however he didn’t do any recordkeeping because it was handled by women in Germany. (40:44) o Environment in the office (41:40) ƒ Compared with his office experience in the U.S. to Germany he worked with more women in Germany for a number of reasons which he details a little a bit. (42:07) ƒ Many of the men he worked with pressured him to become an officer of which he didn’t agree to because it would mean prolonging his service until age 65. (43:03) o Briefly describes taking a military tour of Europe with a few of his buddies and visiting the different American military bases around from Luxembourg down to Rome, Italy. (44:33) o Briefly mentions a story of a friend who could speak 5 languages and their time with the USO while visiting Heidelberg. (47:28) After the Service (49:10) • Returning Home (49:30) o His military tour in Europe ended in December 1954. Gary mentions that he flew home by airplane and landed in New York where his wife picked him up. (49:52) • Adjusting to Home (50:40) �o After 14 months away, his wife was happy to see him. Mentions that he wasn’t completed discharged until December 9th, 1954. (51:05) o After arriving back, they went and lived in Rochester. (52:17) o For the next 2 months, he and his wife went to the library and researched places to live and finally decided on moving to Grand Rapids because it was well known for its furniture. For Gary, he had always wanted to pursue a career in furniture. (55:38) o Attended Davenport University and upon graduating got a job working for Diesel Equipment doing maintenance-type work (57:51) o Briefly discusses his other career pursuits and attending Aquinas College studying accounting. (59:26) Before long, he did some work in accounting.(59:45) • Reflection (59:54) o Wraps up his interview by discussing what the military taught him about life and people and the long-term benefits that it gave him. (1:01:21) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gary, Donald (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gary, Donald Description An account of the resource Donald Gary is a Korean War era veteran who served with the U.S. Air Force from December 1950 to December 1954. In this account, Gary discusses his pre-enlistment, enlistment and basic training. He worked in the accounting department and kept Air Force inventories. He discusses his activities in Germany and the U.S. during his active duty in serving with the U.S. Air Force. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Air Force Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-09-30 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GaryD Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f4c7bc4d052a2aa8345a8c54d6ea1054.mp4 e79111cff69e01734b84fc2e426b6e80 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0f9b5854ff6da98fd2e7ad97bf661325.pdf 76dd1f7387c4852b30e59cbd37d67ac8 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Curly Garner Length: 33:19 (00:11) Background Information and Training • • • • • Curly tried to enlist when he was 17 years old, but was rejected due to medical problems He went to work for a construction company While he was working construction in San Francisco, California, he enlisted in the Coast Guard At that time the Coast Guard was part of the Navy Curley trained at Government Island in Alameda, California (3:06) Deployment • • • • • • • Curley was sent to the Aleutian Islands and patrolled near the top of Japan during World War II He patrolled near the top of Japan They would try and rescue planes that went down Once they thought there was a sub, so they dropped depth charges There was a flash back that ignited some oil and a man from the engine room died of burns Sometimes they had to go into a harbor because the seas would get to rough Curly thought it was exiting to drop depth charges (7:49) Conditions • • • • • • • • The weather was bad all of the time, it was hazy, dark, windy and cold An officer jumped into the rough sea to save 3 men that had washed off a ship and received a medal for it Curly wrote letters home to pass time and keep in touch They always had coffee, but sometimes had to eat cold sandwiches because it was too rough to cook He didn’t have any pressure or stress They could watch movies aboard the ship Curly went to a USO show while at port They could visit the Army bases (18:00) End of the War �• • • • • • • • • • • Curly took a 30 day leave after boot camp He was supposed to go Japan, but got a position as a storekeeper Curly was discharged in San Francisco His duty during the war was to relay commands from the captain during his service After his discharge he did electric, heating, and plumbing Curly worked at a grocery store He then went to work as a postmaster until he retired Curly still keeps in touch with a couple of his friends from the war He belongs to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the American Legion, and the American Veteran Association Curly thinks “war is hell but it is necessary” The service broadened his perspective of the world, was a good experience, and made him mature � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Garner, Curly (Interview outline and video), 2003 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Garner, Curly Description An account of the resource Curly Garner enlisted in the Coast Guard shortly after graduating from high school. He trained on Government Island in California and was sent to the Aleutian Islands during WWII. Their job was to try and rescue pilots that went down near the top of Japan. The conditions on the ship were good except the weather. After the war ended he was almost sent to be part of the occupation of Japan, but was discharged instead. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Phillips, Meredith (Interviewer) Otsego Public Library (Otsego, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Coast Guard World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2003-12-22 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GarnerC Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0af0b147d38a3b3b6621231ca7d81e3f.mp4 5259d374eb4d536e9284f8e1d332a1e8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/eb243824ad01bb6e48d3f4f8662fe8db.pdf 7d64bc3116621c4b351a29367628839e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Lawrence Gardner (01:06:56) (00:15) Background Information • • • • • • Lawrence was born in Illinois near the Mississippi River His father worked for the railroad and often was transferred around the state Many of Lawrence’s family members were working in the circus He went to school at Saint Thomas Academy and later got a job working as a machinist Many of his friends had been joining the service after the war started and Lawrence felt that it was his duty to do so also He enlisted in the Marines in June of 1942 (09:15) Basic Training • Lawrence took a train to Chicago and then to San Diego where he was outfitted with a uniform that did not actually fit him • He was sent to boot camp in Chicago where they often trained for gas attacks • The training was tough with much discipline and they spent a lot of time running, marching, and climbing walls • Lawrence had been older than the other men and many of them called him “dad” (13:45) Training Classes • While waiting to leave for Guadalcanal, Lawrence was chosen to travel to Michigan and take classes • He first was sent to Abrams Aerial Service Company where he worked with aerial photography and reconnaissance • He later took classes at Michigan State University in Lansing and stayed in a hotel near the capitol building (20:20) North Carolina • Lawrence had weapons training in NC, working with .30 caliber machine guns that were air cooled and water cooled .50 caliber machine guns • Lawrence got married to his girlfriend from Illinois while in NC • She later followed him to California where she worked with the Marine Corps • Lawrence became part of the 4th Marine Division while in CA (24:00) Map Making • Lawrence left on the USS Pillsbury from San Diego to Hawaii �• • • • • • From Hawaii they headed for Iwo Jima but were accidently hit by another US ship and about 300 men were killed Lawrence then had to go back to Hawaii where he began working on a base in Maui His job was to make maps for invasion of islands in the Pacific, like Iwo Jima, Saipan, Tinian, and Okinawa Lawrence would first fly over the island and take pictures of the terrain He would sometimes land on the island and scout the area He was working with commanders to find the best route for an attack (34:55) Iwo Jima • The island was surrounded with ships and Lawrence took a landing craft to shore • There were bodies floating all over in the water • 3 divisions had been on the island with about 70,000 men • It was hard for them to advance past the beach and many of the landing craft had sunk • Lawrence eventually made it to a base near the landing strip and saw many B-29s • He volunteered to fight on the front lines and help relieve some of the men that had been there for weeks without any breaks (44:25) Japanese Soldiers • There were many Japanese hiding underground behind trap doors; they would jump out of their hiding spots, surprising and shooting the American soldiers • They had once found a Japanese man waiting in their chow line • He was dressed in an American uniform and spoke English (47:15) Okinawa • On march 15, 1945 Lawrence left Iwo Jima on a ship to Okinawa with a floating reserve group • They ended up being diverted to Guam because of the huge storms going through the Pacific at that time • Lawrence was sent back to Hawaii and discharged shortly after arriving in Chicago (55:35) Working in the US • Lawrence took a bus from Chicago back home in Rockford, Illinois • He was not able to get his job back working as a machinist, though he had been told that they would hold his position for him • He later moved to Michigan and began working for the Michigan Gas Utility Company � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gardner, Lawrence D. (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gardner, Lawrence D. Description An account of the resource Lawrence Gardner was born in Illinois near the Mississippi River and enlisted in the Marine Corps during WWII. He was pulled out of basic training to take courses in aerial photography. He served in the Pacific and helped to plan the invasions of Saipan, Tinian, Iwo Jima and Okinawa. He worked as a mapmaker with the 4th Marine Division, and at times served on the islands that the division attacked. On Iwo Jima, he volunteered to serve in the front lines when his division was short of men. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Marine Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-11-14 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GardnerL Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/15c033bb274588c43f3f04eed0ac16c5.mp4 a081d37c16a4a9923ddf1d06927b0d23 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/46dcc6251de35840bac8ee51d1bbd54b.pdf 090b85d9244d32e979d5202c9b7b33f5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Fred Garcia Vietnam War Total Time: 27:58 Childhood and Pre-Enlistment (00:18)     Born in Lansing, MI in 1948 Obtained a Masters Degree from Michigan State University in Administration Father was a World War II Veteran (01:20) Drafted into the Army in 1968 Training (01:48)    Attended Basic Training at Fort Knox, KY (01:55) Took Advanced Infantry Training at Fort Polk, LA. (02:02) He was selected at Fort Polk for a special unit. To be selected, they had to score very well on both the IQ and PT tests. There were 30 men in this unit. They had special training while they were at Fort Polk. Active Duty (04:40)     He was sent to Fort Meyers, VA to work a desk clerk job and training ASA troops for night missions and duty. (05:38) He was then sent to the DMZ in Vietnam, but was then shortly sent to the DMZ in Korea. (08:02) He was involved in some brief firefights while in Korea. (09:10) They had some dog handlers in his unit. Post-Service (11:05)   He went to college after coming back from Korea, and worked as a teacher after he graduated. He has two sons. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Garcia, Fred (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Garcia, Fred Description An account of the resource Fred Garcia was born in 1948 and served in the Army during the Vietnam War. Fred was drafted into the Army in 1968, and was trained as an infantryman. He spent his time on active duty as a desk clerk, training troops, and in the Demilitarized Zones in both Korea and Vietnam. After his time in the service, he worked as a teacher. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-06-16 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GarciaF1130V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/114458b51f24920110166f4821b65941.mp4 6f3fb28353f41d53bb9bac7ae1a103ff https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/27a55b90bb62fe9d72e0290c39714ab9.pdf 51b702b3027ce6df3e0bdb070aa0901b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Subject: George B. Gane Interviewer: Dr. James Smither Interview Length: 46 minutes Introduction (00:15) Family and Friends (01:12) • Gane mentions that his father was a salesman. His father served in the Canadian Army during World War I as an ambulance driver. • Born and raised in Grand Rapids, Gane graduated from South High School in 1942. (01:33) Pre-enlistment (01:47) • Gane mentions that for a short time he worked in a machine shop and a packaging job. Joined the military in early 1943. • Afterwards, Gane mentions being sent to Fort Custer, MI. Further describes how one could which branch of service they wanted to serve in. He chose the air corps. Enlistment and Training (03:10) • From Fort Custer, he went to a Floridian country club. While there he took a few tests to determine what he was best eligible for. • Afterwards, they sent him to armory school at Buckley Field, 20 miles outside of Denver, CO. In one encounter there he tells of how FDR came and reviewed the troops. • Gane also mentions that they taught him how to put together guns and clean them and work with the turrets. • From there he went to a gunnery school in Texas. Tells of an encounter in which they would practice shooting targets on a railroad track. • From gunnery school, Gane mentions his time flying in the back of an 18.6 two-seater plane. These types of planes were what pilots usually started their training in. (08:28) • Gane mentions that from Texas he was sent to Walla Walla, Washington where he met up with all personnel to undergo more training. �• From Walla Walla, they went to Rapid City, SD where they flew out of there for a few months. (10:23) Gane describes his service with his lead crew. Tells of how each group has 8 crews; with 2 lead crews per squadron. • Gane describes his one year training going from base to base around the U.S. Mentions service at Rapid City, SD; Walla Walla, Washington; Redwood, OR; Nebraska; and Paiute, TX. • Doesn’t mention much about his crossing across the Atlantic. Gane does mention though that they first went to Newfoundland and then were sent to Britain. Bombing Campaign in Europe (15:05) • While in Britain, Gane describes his time as a waist gunner aboard a B-17. Gives a brief description of the different jobs that a crew aboard a B-17 had. He mentions that they usually flew at 25,000 to 30,000 feet. Also, discusses his crew in some detail. • Gane was based near Norfolk, England. He describes his time there briefly. Gane mentions that they started bombing raids in February 1944 over Europe. Most of the time he remembers getting one engine shot out 20-25% of the time by flak. Describes the general conditions of what being under heavy flak fire entailed. • Gane describes the relationship between bomber and fighter crews during the war in Germany. On their 2nd bombing run to Berlin he mentions that they lost three engines. Describes in some detail the 2nd attack over Berlin and getting credit for shooting down a German aircraft. (29:48) • Gane briefly mentions their bombing attacks in Poland. (30:58) He describes an encounter in which a friend of his got shot down over Denmark. He relates how he was rescued by the underground and smuggled to Sweden where he was picked up and sent to London, England where Gane had to come in to identify him. • Afterwards Gane briefly describes his service aboard a radar ship version of a B-17. Mentions that he did this from February to September 1944. (34:30) • He briefly mentions what life was like in England and that there were no problems with the local populace. While stationed there he supervised a skeet range and trained crews for a few months. At Christmas he went home. (37:44) Going Home (39:42) �• Afterwards, they sent Gane to a gunnery-instructor school in Paiute, TX. He describes how they put in charge of the training crews there. Briefly mentions that he flew 30 combat missions and got out in September 1945. After the war (41:18) • After Gane was discharged, he returned to Grand Rapids where he mentions working for Peter Pan Bakery for three ears as a bakery deliver going from house to house. Afterwards, Gane worked for 35 years at a local electronic parts house. Following that he moved to Owosso, MI and lived there for 10 years and came back. Shared his personal thoughts on his time in the service and what he learned from it. (44:50) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gane, George B. (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gane, George B. Description An account of the resource George B. Gane is a WW II veteran who served in the U.S. Army Air Corps with the 92nd Bomber Wing from 1944 to 1945. In this account he discusses his pre-enlistment years, enlistment and training in the U.S., and bombing missions in Europe. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army. Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-25 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GaneG Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6c5c85c682192afd4da4948469fd2989.m4v a819b331963fe0ef4e076caecbf61d63 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3e552cf0fb8852e65e0d95401af77fbb.pdf ad8b0d1a2a88a9b23c3e6ae71081f71f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project World War II Rosadell Galmish Wolf on Elvin Jay Galmish Background (00:00:00) 2nd Lieutenant, Army Air Corps Died September 5, 1944 in service of his country Born in Cochranton, Pennsylvania, May 19, 1921 Grew up on a farm Finished high school in Cochranton Training (00:01:13) He enlisted in the military when he was 21, Air Force  Interested in learning to fly Married his wife, Rosadell Galmish (the interviewee), in July before entering the service His wife went in to teach that year After enlisting, he waited until January for his notice (00:02:30)  Had a job during these months of waiting Went to the Aviation Cadet Center in San Antonio, Texas for training No telephones available freely at the time, very strict on its usage  Would be allowed calls once in a while No flight training at the cadet center, just basic training  Lots of testing: recognition and identification of different planes, instant recognition  Very strict training, couldn’t talk often to his family  Was in training for about 6 months, end of May went on to the next phase of training Flight Training (00:05:07) Flight training in Vernon, Texas. Rosadell traveled by train to join him there � She never traveled anywhere, especially never by herself  He had good grades in his training, so he was able to go into town during the weekend  They had planned to meet on Friday, but he wasn’t there  That weekend, Rosadell found out that his weekends now started on Saturdays instead of Fridays  The woman, whose house they would be staying at had gone to meet her, but had gone to the wrong train station  Rosadell stayed in the woman’s daughter’s room that was being rented out Elvin was having a hard time with flying because he would get air sick (00:07:35)  His instructor gave him one last time to see if he could overcome it  If he didn’t, he would be taken out of the program  He didn’t get air sick on that flight and could finish training Went to Enid, Oklahoma for the next level of training (00:08:30) Rosadell shared a room with another cadet’s wife Elvin would have to do night flights; he would sometimes fly over his wife’s apartment and he would dip his wings so she could see him (00:09:35) The woman she was staying with had a son and was worried about Polio and moved back home; Rosadell then had to stay by herself (00:10:00) Went to Frederick, Oklahoma for his next phase of training (00:10:46)  Took a car with another couple to get there  Rosadell taught at the school there, part-time November 3, Elvin got his wings (00:12:30)  Elvin had forgotten his uniform for the ceremony so he came back and visited his wife for a little while during school After graduation, Elvin was given time to go back home for 10 days; had been training for a year (00:13:40) �Delrio, Texas was his next destination; Rosadell couldn’t join him (00:14:04)  She eventually was given a guest room at the base; December 6  Was given the chance to fly in a B-76 In January, Elvin finished his B-76 training and went to Freeport, Louisiana; Barksdale Air Field (00:15:20)  Met his crew there  Permitted to live off base, but motels weren’t as common during the ‘40’s  Stayed at a cabin with another couple Rosadell tells a story about her sister coming in to visit her (00:16:49) Training completed there (00:19:25) Didn’t enter the war right away, stayed in Freeport (00:19:42)  Wanted to have some leave time so Elvin could get Rosadell back home; she was expecting a baby, at the time  Didn’t get the leave time, was scheduled to go to Europe  Last time Rosadell saw him was when he left to go back to the field, April His crew and he was sent to New Jersey until May (00:21:27) The day before his birthday, in May, his crew reached England (00:22:04)  Went by ship He was stationed in England but Rosadell doesn’t know where (00:22:43) He wrote when he could, can guess that it was a month before he started making flights (00:23:05)  All letters were censored, couldn’t talk about flights but could say little things  End of June, Rosadell can guess, is when he began flying (00:24:05)  Once mentioned, in his letters, that he had been in London (00:25:00) � Lived in a regular barracks, but never went in-depth about much because he wasn’t allowed  The only thing he ever mentioned, about flights, was that he could always tell how close the flak was because of his co-pilot He wasn’t involved in D-day, arrived too early (00:26:40)  Was able to push the Germans back enough to make a small airport  Elvin was stationed there, near Omaha Beach  Mentioned in a letter that he had been issued a helmet which he used it to clean his clothes  Rosadell was happy he wrote about this because when they sent his footlocker back, all of his clothing was discolored Combat took place mainly over Germany (00:29:10) At the end of the War, the tail gunner of Elvin’s plane had survived (00:29:25)  He told Rosadell that they were all set to be sent to the Pacific Theater of Operations, was glad they weren’t Elvin was awarded the Air Medal with three clusters and a Purple Heart (00:30:20) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Galmish, Elvin (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Galmish, Elvin Description An account of the resource Rosadell Galmish Wolf, wife of 2nd Lieutenant Elvin Jay Galmish, tells the story of her husband during World War II from her perspective. Elvin Jay Galmish enlisted in the Army Air Corps at the age of 21 and trained to be a pilot. His wife traveled with him during his training until he was sent to Europe in 1944 where died in service of his country. He was a bomber pilot, based first in England and then in France (so presumably with the 9th Air Force). Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Vandermyde, Nicholas John (Interviewer) Jacobs, Lucas Christopher (Interviewer) Forest Hills Eastern High School (Ada, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Women Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-06-09 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GalmishE Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/842bfe0caa44bae6967fb50b3337f75a.m4v a4eff80cbb5400f0ecc837d98da35217 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bbc7ba7eed9e667664525135d25af7d7.pdf f0afabf74b473a2d4afd7315d2ec2022 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Title: Galloway, Leonard (Interview outline and video), 2009 Subject: World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American; United States. Army Air Corps Description: Leonard Galloway was born on August 3, 1925 in Huron, South Dakota. He enlisted in the Army Air Corps when he was 17 years old because he did not want to be drafted and because he had always wanted to fly. Leonard went through basic training in Texas and then was sent to the University of Mississippi for training classes. The war ended just as he was getting into advanced flight courses and he was disappointed because he had really wanted to fly in Europe. Creator: Galloway, Leonard Contributor (Interviewer/Affiliation): Galloway, Carson (Interviewer); Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Date: 2009-05-27 Digital Identification: LGalloway � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Galloway, Leonard (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Galloway, Leonard Description An account of the resource Leonard Galloway was born on August 3, 1925 in Huron, South Dakota. He enlisted in the Army Air Corps when he was 17 years old because he did not want to be drafted and because he had always wanted to fly. Leonard went through basic training in Texas and then was sent to the University of Mississippi for training classes. The war ended just as he was getting into advanced flight courses and he was disappointed because he had really wanted to fly in Europe. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Galloway, Carson (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-05-27 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GallowayL Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives