46 24 1541 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/19f5a09be86e323d30089c19169aad36.mp4 78b1f1f52f2e9e35572d87061d40bc17 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/965764cce73b108c28ccc21cf8e947e0.pdf 2e7670f6cb5ccab79fa80beaac23d05e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Notes Length: (58:55) Charles Jarocki Persian Gulf War, June 1986 to March 1997 United States Air Force (00:05) Pre-War Training • • • • • • • Enlisted in the United States Air Force in 1986 Was sent to a military processing station in Fresno, CA He had been living in Clovis, CA, but had been bored with life and getting nowhere Had dropped out of college before enlisting and he felt that he had to get his life back together He wanted to follow in his father’s footsteps, who had fought in the Korean War Charles did well on his first test, so he was asked to take an electric data processing test Afterwards, he was chosen to go into the computer programming field (01:36) The Training Process • • • • On June 3rd, 1986 he left for the Air Force base in San Antonio, TX He went to basic military training in the 3707th training squadron with 50-60 other men Basic training lasted one and a half months and Charles found training enjoyable He next went to Keisler Air Force base in Biloxi, MS (02:25) Computer Programming School • • • • • Charles attended programming school for three months after he had gotten orders for his first permanent duty station at the Holloman Air Force base in New Mexico He was assigned to the 6585th test crew, in the computer science division, which did not pay well, but was a fun job Charles provided support to a central inertia test facility where they test inertial guidance systems for Air Force platforms There was a test range and a high speed test track Charles stayed in New Mexico for four years and had planned on going back to college (4:00) Re-enlistment • • In 1990 the Air Force had convinced Charles to stay longer in the same career field He then dropped out of New Mexico State University (4:35) Training Culture Shock • • Charles was from a large family and he was used to being around lots of people, but it was hard for him to get used to military life Everyone was made to be, act, and look the same in the Air Force �• • New Mexico had a much more different climate than he was used to, with very high humidity and equally high temperatures His job in basic training was to do typing in the office area where the drill instructors worked because he had learned to type in high school (6:30) Jeff Barkley • • • • • • Jeff was his assistant in San Antonio Jeff’s nickname was the “rat” and Charles’ nickname was the “house mouse” Charles had to study a lot in training in such areas as jobs, politics, insignia, and physical training There were some people that hated physical training so much that they would hide in the bathroom or the barracks for hours No one really wanted to do the running for miles really early in the morning Charles trained and had classes with females, who were called the “sister flight” (9:30) Pickles • • • • • • • Men became pickles after three days of training in which they would be allowed to obtain their fatigues Then they would go to the barber, get all their hair cut off, so that everyone looked completely different and Charles could not recognize anyone They then became “canned pickles” once the tailor sewed their nametag onto their uniform Air Force training is less physical than other armed forces, but there is more mental training Many people could not past their mental tests because they had not studied enough They were not allowed to make phone calls very often, which left Charles feeling very alienated The highlight of the day was receiving mail (12:40) Graduation • Graduation was a big deal, in which everyone got all dressed up and lots of guests attended (13:15) Tech School • • • • • • After graduation, Charles was shipped to Biloxi, MI where he spent three months in computer programming classes He had classes all day long, yet he felt he had more freedom on that base He did well on all of his tests and graduated from his computer programming classes There are only 20 bases world wide in which programmers can work He was then sent back to Holloman Air Force base in New Mexico for air fighter training Charles was in the 6585th test group for munitions and electronics on air-craft navigation systems �(16:50) One Stripe • • • • Charles started off as a one stripe, E-1 airman, and became a first class airman after a couple of years He also did test group photography and gained much experience in that field Charles went to the Air Force Community College for skill levels in his career field Charles won lots of competitions, such as Airman of the Quarter (19:15) White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico • • • • • A very large range with lots of space There was great flying weather so that plains could fly about 350 days/year Charles liked to take pictures while flying Once a pilot did an aerial Dive-Bomb, which made him feel like he was sick and suffocating They had been flying in a T-38 because Charles had won a competition (22:00) Animal Experiments • • • • • • • • Charles had gained a bonus for re-enlisting He went to the Air Force base in Dayton, OH There he worked on the Harry G. Armstrong Medical Research Laboratory They did tests to find out what would effect the Air Force personnel For example, they would do research on chemicals to learn what, if any, were the effects of exposure They experimented on animals: rats and mice Yet they wanted to do less experiments on animals, so they wanted to use computers for simulation Charles’ job was to support mini main frames which they were running simulations on (24:20) Wright State University • • • • While working in Ohio, Charles also attended classes to work on his Bachelors Degree in computer programming He went back to New Mexico to marry his wife Liz When they got back from their honeymoon, Charles received orders to travel over seas He had earlier volunteered for world wide extended tours (25:10) The Gulf War • • • • His lab in Ohio began to focus on chemicals to send to the war zone Everyone was constantly watching CNN and Charles felt very patriotic He was amazed at the sheer force applied and how quickly the Iraqis had given up There was a very decisive bombing campaign and the problems quickly deteriorated (26:45) Rhamstein Air Force base, Germany �• • • • • • The headquarters for the Unites States Air Force base in Europe were located in Germany Charles was assigned to the 1856 computer systems group, which provided all the computer support for the command Liz went with him to Germany, in which they both experience an immediate culture shock They both took two months worth of German lessons They lived near a massive military community with 35,000 Americans Charles and Liz had to live off the base because there was no vacant housing for them, which left them feeling isolated (31:10) 3186 Computer Systems Group • • • • • • • • They provided lots of support for the Air Force in the Persian Gulf However, they were not as busy when Charles arrived because the war was winding down There were lots of programmers with not much to do, which left many of them disgruntled, bored, with no work There was about twenty computer programmers and they were all experiencing low morale Charles found this to be a bad environment that did not sit well with him He worked on a system for the Surgeon General in order to manage their personnel He also worked on a mapping system for the air crafts called the Advanced Planning System He then began learning new types of programming and new languages (35:00) Real Work • • • • • • • • • He finally felt like he was actually part of the Air Force in Germany, whereas earlier he had just assisted in research There was new concern regarding the civil war in Yugoslavia, between the Serbs and the Croatians, in which many were left starving The Advanced Planning System helped air drops of food for relief, called “Provide Promise” They dropped Meals Ready to Eat, or MREs, off a C-130 aircraft It felt good to contribute and save lives He also worked on Operation “Deny Flight” to keep others from flying over Yugoslavia He worked on operating programs in Northern Italy He helped to keep the system up and running, wrote programs to extend the functionality of the system He spent five months in Italy and then went back to Germany (40:28) Joint Forces Air Commander • Charles helped to keep track of whom was flying in a particular area • The computer system helped him in air campaigns • He received good training in Germany and good discipline �(41:50) His Brother Larry Joins the Navy • Larry flew EP-3s for the Navy • They needed linguists in Yugoslavia, and Larry spoke Russian, which was similar • Larry traveled to Germany to receive more language training • There was a shortage of dictionaries from Yugoslavian to English • His brother liked the Air Force base better than his previous Navy base • In Germany, there were many universities to take classes at • The Air Force paid for Charles’ and his wives’ education; Charles finally received his Bachelor’s degree in Germany • He also received an Accommodation Medal and Meritory Service Medal • They made good friends in Germany and in France • Altogether he had traveled to the Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland, Belgium, Lichtenstein, Germany, and France (46:30) New Mexico • He received a binding request for employment from old officers in New Mexico • Began doing operational testing of C-Taps and other new systems • With the birth of both his children, he decided that he finally wanted out of the Air Force • He began taking classes for his Masters degree when officers asked him to work for the company TRW, on C-Taps, modeling and simulation (49:00) New Options after the Air Force • Charles became a Republican and greatly values the Department of Defense • He has a high opinion of people in the Armed Forces, especially those in combat • He was proud to be part of the greatest Air Force in the world • He is now a Department of Defense contractor and works for other aero-space companies • He lost his sense of security when he left the Air Force, which was difficult for him because he had been in the Air Force for eleven years • He was eventually awarded ten percent disability because he had got asthma from being stationed in high altitude areas � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JarockiC Title A name given to the resource Jarocki, Charles (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jarocki, Charles Description An account of the resource Charles Jarocki joined the United States Air Force in 1986 and was stationed in many different parts of the United States and Europe for eleven years. While in the Air Force, Charles received his Bachelors degree and his Masters degree in computer programming. He never experienced hands on combat because he had been called out over seas just as the Persian Gulf War was ending. Charles still works in the computer programming and engineering field and believes that the Air Force was a great experience for him. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Olson, Katie (Interviewer) Schiller-Jarocki, Elizabeth (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military United States. Air Force Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Veterans Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-03 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/70f81937519714ae928e15875039ae14.mp4 e0866bcec35f5e93511e5af18b692b0b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5e762643ee4dcdfdd9f3113141ca34a2.pdf fd74b4b7863ff8f908808f064b70d3a8 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Ray Janssen (00:47:03) (00:15) Background Information • Ray was born in Wisconsin in 1923 • They later moved to Michigan and his father bought a 40 acre farm, and also worked in a factory • They had almost lost the farm during the depression • Ray graduated in 1942 and began working until he was drafted in 1943 • He had not paid much attention to the news before Pearl Harbor was attacked (5:00) Training in Alabama • Ray trained at Camp Rucker in Alabama; the camp was very large and the weather was terribly hot • The marched and did many other activities while wearing gas masks • Ray trained for eight months in ordinance duties • Most of the sergeants were easy to work with as long as you did what you were supposed to do (11:20) Australia • Ray took a train from Alabama to San Francisco • They trained in California for another three weeks • They then boarded a liberty ship and headed for Australia • The trip lasted 30 days through the month of October, and they had to travel in a zigzag path the whole way • Ray lived in a tent with the 168th ordinance company outside of a large city in Australia • They were working with Australian civilians in supply warehouses and had nights off (18:50) Leyte • Ray left Australia after one year and headed for a Leyte in the Philippines, arriving a few weeks after the initial landing there • Their ship was attacked by kamikazes that caused great damage to the engine of the ship and killed their captain • Ray was hit in the thigh with shrapnel and taken to an old school house on the shore • He then stayed on a hospital ship for three days and was transferred to and aid center in New Guinea for four months (24:50) Philippines • Ray went back to work with his company and was working in light duty and supplies �• • • • He worked with civilians at the air port, who he though were all very nice people and all spoke perfect English Ray had time off to visit his brother in the Navy as his ship passed by From August till December Ray worked to evacuate all US supplies from the area They were breaking down the base and actually sunk or destroyed many of their supplies (34:05) Discharged • Ray boarded a ship and reached California on December 24th • He arrived in Fort Sheridan on January 4th and was discharged • Ray worked many odd jobs after his time in the service • He worked for three years in a muffler company and then was dye casting for another 5 years • He later went into manufacturing for 27 years before retiring � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JanssenR Title A name given to the resource Janssen, Raymond (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Janssen, Raymond Description An account of the resource Ray Janssen was born in Wisconsin in 1923 and then grew up on a farm in Michigan. He graduated from high school in 1942 and was drafted shortly after in 1943. Ray trained in terribly hot weather in Alabama for eight months and then trained in California for about three weeks before leaving for Australia. Ray worked with Australian civilians in supply warehouses for one year before traveling to Leyte, where he was wounded in a kamikaze attack on his ship. He recuperated on New Guinea and returned to duty in the Philippines at the end of the war, where he helped to destroy leftover supplies and munitions. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-08-15 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bc367cc9704d97db109f624931822d38.mp4 e3297fd7c9d1bb34140779423a4a630d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f0cd69a4ccab40bbd6aee4b05543a56b.pdf 80c05bb4f7d3c55789b57fd5c04a036b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project John Janssen (53:28) (00:25) Background Information • • • • • John was born on April 30, 1922 in Wisconsin His father bought a farm in Michigan in 1928 and they moved John graduated from high school in 1940; before that he had never paid attention to the news of what was going on in Europe He began working in a factory for 35 cents an hour and then moved to Kalamazoo, MI John enlisted in the Marine Corps on October 29, 1941 (4:20) Basic Training • • • Training was a big change in John’s life and it was hard for him to get used to They spent time drilling, doing calisthenics, and marching through swamps in South Carolina John was in South Carolina for about 3 months and then was shipped to Quantico, Virginia for guard duty at a Marine Corps base (8:40) Quantico • John was in Quantico from January 1942 through March 1943 • He helped directed traffic in five lanes by the main gate • In the year that he was in Virginia, he was on liberty once in Washington, DC (10:15) Working on an Air Craft Carrier • John was working with the gunnery crew on a Navy ship • They left from Virginia and traveled to South America to drop off supplies • They crossed through the Panama Canal while headed towards Pearl Harbor • John worked with Air Group 5 in Pearl Harbor and then headed towards Marcus Island (17:05) Marine Gunner • John remembered many kamikaze attacks while fighting in the Pacific • They hit back with radar-guided missiles, automatic rifles, and armor piercing shells • John felt all the men he worked with performed well while under attack (25:05) Ship Life • John spent two years altogether on a ship and found it to be very boring �• • He was a sergeant and had to guard deck every three days John spent his spare time reading and boxing (33:10) Time on Leave • While on leave John visited the New Hebrides and the Philippines • They brought their own beer because there were no bars on some of the islands • John really enjoyed spending time in the New Hebrides because they were many nice and interesting people • There were many USO shows on the islands (38:40) Okinawa • Near the end of the was kamikaze attacks increased • The US had been planning the invasion of Japan • No one had known anything about the atomic bomb and they all heard the surprising news on the radio • John landed in Japan to help take over an arsenal after the bombing • They took over Yokosuka and took all the arms away from Japanese soldiers • When they left Japan, they all had to strip down and were deloused with DDT (45:30) Traveling Back to the US • John rode in a small ship, stopping in Pearl Harbor, and then San Diego • The weather was rough for such a small ship and John was sick most of the time • John waited at the Great Lakes naval base in Chicago for two months; they had lost his papers and was not able to be discharged without them • Afterwards John began working in a factory and then started driving trucks � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JanssenJ Title A name given to the resource Janssen, John (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Janssen, John Description An account of the resource John Janssen was born on April 30, 1922 in Wisconsin and moved to Michigan in 1928. He graduated from high school in 1940 and joined the Marine Corps on October 29, 1941. John went through basic training in South Carolina, where they spent a lot of time marching through swamps. John then began working on an aircraft carrier as an anti-aircraft gunner and served in a series of battles in the Pacific, concluding with Okinawa. After Japan was bombed, John worked there breaking down an arsenal and taking weapons away from Japanese soldiers. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Marine Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-08-05 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c090eb8f93704e8e980b0917bd6c5dc1.mp4 577664d50e4eba78641701fe857d65e1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3f7e5d2f9c02a6fe59fff288630f2d9c.pdf eab4a7e27057cfd7545da2cfd225c865 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Steven Janicki (00:20:15) Transcribed by: Joan Raymer July 13, 2007 Interviewer: “Steve, can you give your name and where you were born?” Steven Anthony Janicki, I was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on February 4, 1924. Interviewer: “Where did you go to school and what was your early schooling like?” I was going to Sacred heart School on Grand Rapids, from the first grade to the ninth grade. From there I went to Davis Tech for the tenth grade period. Interviewer: “Right about this time how old were you when you went to Davis Tech to school?” Tenth grade, I was 16 years old and I went to school for one month in September. Interviewer: “Who were some of the guys you were hanging around with, and what age were they?” Bob Norton, Earl Williams, Bob Stevens, they were all 17 or 18 years old. They were going to Union High School and they belonged to the National Guard. Interviewer: “Was this something that appealed to you?” Not really, a lot of my friends that I hung around with, they went to CC Camp, because times were pretty tough and that the only place where they could go more or less to get a job. 2:32 The government fed them and gave them a little spending money, which they sent home. Interviewer: What was CC Camp?” The Civilian Conservation Corps. They went up north and planted trees in the forests and that’s about what that amounted to. Interviewer: “ Lets begin here, when did you start thinking about the National Guard?” I think maybe in July, because the fellas I told ya I was hanging around with, they were in the National Guard getting ready to go to Camp Grayling for 2 weeks and to me camp sounded pretty good. They had a Lake Marguerite at Camp Grayling where they could go swimming and the government fed them and gave them clothes and I thought that was a pretty good deal, but I was only 16 and when they did get back from camp they were telling me how great it was and how much fun they had and boy I thought that was the best thing that ever happened to anybody, so that’s when I started thinking about getting into the National Guard. 3:43 They also told me that there was a swimming pool at the armory and if I signed up or got in, I could use the swimming pool any time I wanted to. And for an indoor pool at that time, man, that was a luxury and a half. 4:02 They finally got me in there –I signed up on October 12, 1940 that was on a Friday and the fellas that 1 �helped me get in, they figured if I signed up on a Friday then once I signed the papers, Saturday and Sunday came along and nobody bothered about it because they all wanted the week-end off so, I was in. So I did, I signed up on Friday and I figured I was in and by Monday morning we were mobilized. 4:38 So there was no way they were going to kick me out because they were short on members, men and I think they were glad to have people come in. They never checked me; they never worried about my age. Interviewer: “What was the reaction of your family that you were joining up?” It kind of went over their head. I don’t think they realized what was happening. There was no response. It was hard times; it was still kind of depression like. Interviewer: “If you were 16 years old, did you look 16?” I don’t know. I don’t know how to answer that one. I tried to—you know, I tried to act big. It’s like these kids today that try to go buy a bottle of beer, they’re 18 or 19 years old and they try to look 21 so I don’t know how to answer that one. 5:46 Interviewer: “So your mobilized, lets get a better idea of what that means, what does it mean to be mobilized?” Well, you went out of the Michigan National Guard into the United States Army, that’s what it amounted to. You were under now the Federal Government’s jurisdiction. We started training, they gave me some clothes that didn’t fit, shoes that didn’t fit and we used to go up to Lookout Park, that’s up off of Division Avenue and we use to train there, march, close order drill and the usual stuff. 6:33 I think we did that for a couple of weeks and they started making plans to ship out to Louisiana. Interviewer: “Now this is for more formal training or basic training?” Well, the close order drill is generally what the army or any military service does right from the beginning. It teaches you coordination as a group, but it was the basic training. 7:07 Interviewer: “So now you’re being gathered up to go to Louisiana and these friends, these are guys you grew up with in this group?” Yes. I was in the same company with the people I hung around with mostly, all except the older ones that were married or—anybody that was 19 or older, they were out of my class, to me they were like “old men”. 7:39 Interviewer: “So give us an idea of how many people we’re talking about, that part of your group.” I think maybe 80, give or take 5 or 10 guys. Interviewer: “So how did you get to Louisiana?” We went to the Union Station, we boarded trains, I was in the baggage car, I stayed with the baggage, and the rest of the fellas they were in day coaches. I think it took us, I don’t know, it’s hard to recollect, maybe 2 or 3 days, but we marched up Monroe Avenue and 2 �right down to the train station and boarded the train, I think we left towards evening, maybe 7 or 8 o’clock. 8:34 Interviewer: “Why were you in the baggage compartment?” We took the baggage and I dumped our stuff and everything, uniforms, blankets, all our equipment that was all thrown in the baggage car. Interviewer: “Why were you there instead of in front with the rest of the guys?” There were a few more with me, the lowly ones, I was a “dog face”, they didn’t call them “dog faces” then, but that’s what you were considered, the “lowly one”. Interviewer: “So you arrive in Louisiana, describe what you found for us when you got there.” Well, we got out there and we got on some trucks and I think we went to Camp Beauregard and it was hot and we had OD clothes on, which are olive drab, woolen clothes and it was hot. I remember going into camp, they had tents up and I think there were 8 men to a tent. So, I think it was each squad had there own tent and we put all our equipment in there and that’s where it all became. 9:52 Interviewer: “Now this squad you’re referring to once again, are these your close friends that you grew up with?” No, no, There was only maybe one of them that I grew up with, the others were in different squads, maybe in the next tent or 2 tents down, but after a little bit you got to know everybody. Interviewer: “ Now just so—especially considering that this is so close to home, here in Grand Rapids, the guys that are in the tent next to you, maybe you didn’t know in grand Rapids, when you started to talk to tem, you found out what street they lived on, these were all Grand Rapids people, right?” All Grand Rapids people, ya, boy it’s kind of hard to recollect what we talked about. 10:41 Interviewer: “Just thinking as your getting to know people and they ask, “where are you from?” and you say, “I’m from Monroe Avenue or I was on Kalamazoo Avenue—I guess what I’m trying to get across is that during this period of training, you became good friends with these guys?” Right and I think the first thing you ask them was, “where did you go to school?” and it varied, some of them went to Creston, some of them went to Davis Tech, some of them went to Union High School, those that went to Union High School, our commanding officer was one of their teachers and I think that’s the reason they got into the National Guard and that was Captain Merl Howe. 11:30 Some of them went to South and Ottawa. Interviewer: “ So, your now in Louisiana, your in a squad, you’ve got a tent, give us an idea what your daily routine was like during the first stages of your training.” 3 �Well, you woke up in the morning at 5:30 and you had to fall out for roll call and after that you went back in your tent and you made up your bunk and cleaned up out in the bath house, you washed, I can’t say shave because I didn’t shave. Interviewer: “ I was just going to say, you didn’t mention shaving.” 12:21 No, no, I didn’t shave, but you cleaned up and then you went back to your tent and you waited for the mess call and then we went to eat breakfast and after breakfast we had about a half an hour or so and then we fell out, the company and we had back packs, our rifles and we went out in the field to drill. 12:54 That was more or less normal for the time we were there. Interviewer: “How would you describe the training? What kind of training did you have?” Well, the training, it was more or less something based on what the officers went through in WWI, nothing about trenches, but you know you kind of ran and zigzagged as if somebody was shooting at you and we hid behind trees and you crawled on the ground, but that was basically about it. Interviewer: “Now we mentioned shaving earlier, I understand there was an incident in which the shaving was brought up, would you talk about that?” We had our first full field inspection and the Lieutenant came out and he stood right—he come up to you and he stood right in front of you and he would look you right in the face and he looked at me and I thought Oh, Oh, and he said to me, “when was the last time you shaved?” and that struck me so funny, I busted out laughing and he called me a few choice words and he put me on KP for a week, which is Kitchen Police, and I still thought that was pretty funny and he called my squad leader who was Adrian Bush and he told him to take this kid out to the bath house and teach him how to shave. 14:45 That’s when I knew I was accepted. I thought that was the greatest thing that ever happened to me, somebody taught me to learn how to shave. That was the beginning. Interviewer: “I take it though, you really didn’t need to shave at that age?” Well, I had “peach fuzz”, that’s what we called it, but I didn’t think I needed to shave, but I think they did. 15:12 Interviewer: “ So, after this basic training in Louisiana, where was your group sent from there?” Well, we were there until, I don’t remember the month we got there, but we were there until April and while we were there they were building up Camp Livingston and we went from Camp Beauregard to Camp Livingston which was actually much better than Beauregard. We had gas stoves in our tent, the tents were elevated off the ground, they had wood floors and there we got our first bunch of draftees. 16:00 People that were brought in on the first draft and most of them were from the Grand Rapids area, which made in pretty nice, because some of the fellas that came in there, I knew them from Grand Rapids, they lived on the West side where I lived and I knew the. I was very surprised and shocked to see they were drafted, those that came in. 4 �Interviewer: “I want to continue from there, but before we do there was an incident you referred to back at Camp Beauregard, you talked about one of the officers wanted you to build—asked if you were a carpenter or not.” Oh ya, the Lieutenant he came up and that was the same Lieutenant that told the Corporal to take me down and teach me how to shave. He asked me if I was a carpenter and I told him no and he said, “well you are now” and he wanted me to build him a clothes rack and I told him, I said, “I have no idea on how to build a clothes rack” and he said, “well, your going to learn”. 17:14 They had officers tents, one man officers tent and the poles in there must have been maybe 2 ½ inches in diameter so, I went to the Supply Sergeant and I told him I had to build a rack and I had no idea how to do it and he told me to get a plank and nail the plank to the post in the back of the tent and get a wire and put it from one end of the plank up around the post and down the other end, put some nails in that plank and that’s the clothes rack. 17:49 Well I did that and that night it rained and this Lieutenant he just got his brand new set of “pinks”, officers clothes and in Louisiana it is all mud and clay and that clothes rack fell down and again, he came out storming and called me a few choice names and he put me again on KP, but this time for 30 days and like I say, at that time I kind of figured that I was “accepted” so, I took at the way it was. 18:28 Interviewer: “So, where is the other camp that you went to? You said that you went to Beauregard then you went to?” We went to Beauregard to Camp Livingston and we were there for up until Pearl Harbor. Interviewer: “Where is Camp Livingston?” In Louisiana. Interviewer: “Louisiana—was there a difference in the training or the routine from Beauregard to Livingston?” No, the training was the same. Everything was based on what these officers went through in WWI. We didn’t have a lot of the equipment, we simulated Jeeps, we didn’t really know what a Jeep was. If you were going down and we were out in the field you know, some of the G.I.’s would pass ya and they would holler, “peep, peep, I’m a Jeep” you know, everything was simulated. 19:33 Some of the machine guns were simulated. We weren’t build up with equipment the way we should have been, but then nobody knew this was coming on, but everything was pretty much based on what these officers went through during WWI, minus the trenches. Interviewer: “Do you need some water?” Please. Interviewer: “All right, so were at Camp Livingston and you said that the training is still pretty much the same, WWI related tactics and whatnot, what happened on Pearl Harbor day? What was your reaction to that?” Well, the week before Pearl Harbor they had a convoy going to New Orleans so, anybody that wanted to go could go for the weekend, we left on a Friday and we were heading out to a school in New Orleans and one of the friends from our company, his dad lived in 5 �New Orleans so, we went in a convoy and we stayed at his place, he lived over an oyster house in the French Quarter, but we were there for the weekend and had a good time and then Sunday morning about noon, we were scheduled to go back to Camp Livingston, so we had to meet at the school and we got into these army trucks and a car pulled up behind us and a woman showed us papers saying, ”War Declared” and I don’t know where she got that, but I remember when we were going through the south there by these gas stations they used to have a little bird cage and they had a couple of spark plugs tied up in there and underneath they had a sign that said, “War Declared on Old Spark Plugs” and I thought it struck me kind of funny that she had this sign that said “War Declared’ and that was the first thought that come to mind. 21:46 and after that I ignored it and we never heard anything about it until we got back into Camp Livingston and we went to our tents and everybody running around camp and somebody was hollering that Japan had attacked Pearl Harbor. 22:09 We got into our tent and our cots were gone, the mattresses were piled up in the tent, we were told to get our stuff and meet at the Company Street and we got into trucks and we went into, I don’t even remember the town, but we were guarding a lake that supplied the water to Barksdale Field and we were there for I think, a couple of weeks. At that time I drove a truck which took—I come back into camp and took the meals that were cooked at the camp over to the fellas at the lake and they ate and then I brought the stuff back and I’d be taking their meals to them. 23: 00 Interviewer: “Where did you learn to drive?’ At home, we had a 1927 Buick. My dad walked to work and he left the car home and at times I sneaked off and drove the car. Interviewer: “ Ok. I was just thinking, a 16 year old already driving a truck to the lake and back, that’s pretty amazing. What was the mood like amongst your group?” Quiet, somber, maybe a lot of guys were in deep thought. To me, I had no thought one way or another. To tell you the truth, I don’t think I could figure out what was going on. 23:50 I thought if anything, that we would be sent someplace to kind of stay in the country and never thought about leaving the country, that was the farthest thought from my mind. Interviewer: “Did you have any information about the devastation of Pearl Harbor? Did that have an effect, that a lot of American died there?” Not at that time, I don’t think we got too much of that. All we knew was that it was bombed and I don’t think it was really stressed, there wasn’t any TV or anything, everything we heard was over the radio and then when President Roosevelt got on the next day and he declared was on Japan and talked about a lot of devastation, a lot of killings and that was about it. 24:51 Interviewer: “So, you actually heard the speech live?” From Roosevelt, yes, on the radio and I remember him saying, “This day will live in infamy”. I think at that time he spoke to Congress and everybody was glued to the radio, but it was still far away. 25:14 I know it was our territory, but it wasn’t that close to home. 6 �Interviewer: “What was the next major change, where did you go from there?” Well, we were told that if we got foot lockers to send them home, which we did, we took them over someplace, I don’t remember where and they were going to ship them out for us and then we were going to Fort Devens, Massachussets, we were going to go—I thought we were going to go to Europe and a lot of the troops went by train. 26:02 I, with others, went in a convoy, we moved our trucks and I drove a truck with another fella by the name of Claire Earlywine, it was a gasoline truck, we were the last ones in the convoy and in case a truck ran out of gas, we supplied the gas, but we made a lot of stops between Alexandria Louisiana and Fort Devens and people along the way, when they saw us, they come out and they had cookies and milk and coffee, they were great. 26:44 We did get to Fort Devens and we stayed there for a while, I think it got pretty cold, I think I remember it snowing and then I think it was about February or March we moved out of there and we got on trains and we were heading out for California. 27:19 Interviewer: “Were you already formed into companies at that time?” All companies. Interviewer: “What Company were you in?” I was in company K, 126th Infantry. 27:36 Interviewer: “Where in California did you end up?” The Cow Palace, that is still there. I think that is the greatest trip I ever experienced. All the cars we traveled in were sleepers, we had Porters that lowered the berths, they did the berth for us, when we woke up in the morning they came back and they raised the berths up, they treated us like kings, that was quite an experience. 28:17 Interviewer: “Where in California did you end up?” San Francisco at the Cow Palace and we were there for, I don’t know, maybe a week. Interviewer: “It’s interesting because ending up on the West coast, was there any suspicion that maybe you weren’t going to go to Europe?” Well, we knew we weren’t going to go to Europe, but then again we didn’t know where we were going. 28:50 Europe was out of the question once we left Massachussets, going to California, I thought maybe we would more or less be guarding the coast and I had no idea we were going overseas. Interviewer: “So when did you find out you were going overseas and what was your reaction?” Well, we got on trucks and they took us to the pier and there was this luxury liner, the SS Lurline and man we looked at that and it was a huge ship. It was white, were the first troops that boarded it, there was still no talk about where we were going, but we knew we were going overseas, but as far as combat, I don’t think we give that much of a thought, because we didn’t know where we were going. 29:52 We could have been going to someplace that was out of the range of the Japanese or something, we never gave it a thought that we were going someplace that we were going to be fairly soon into combat. 7 �When we got on the Lauraline, man that was luxury. They still had civilian cooks on there, the swimming pool was drained of water and they put bunks up in there, our company, we slept on the fantail. 30:28 The food was out of this world, some of the guys had staterooms and it was really a luxury. Interviewer: “Now there is an ancient tradition crossing the International Date Line, did you go through any kind of a ceremony?” They had what they called initiation of going over the equator, we had King Neptune and we were shellbacks or pollywogs or something like that and once you got initiated you were—oh man, I can’t remember what they called it then, but we had guys that were walking around in grass skirts and they painted them, some of them had their hair shaved off their head, it was just really a crazy time, I think it was worse, I mean better, than Mardi Gras because when you have something like that when your on land or at home you don’t want to look like a complete idiot, but when your at sea and the only person that is going to see you is another guy, you don’t care what you look like, it was fun. 31:50 Interviewer: “So, what happened to you personally? What did they do to you?” Nothing, I was a bystander, I watched all of this. One of the guys that was in our tent, Frank Buise, he had all, his hair wasn’t shaved off, but it was zigzagged you know and he was a redhead and he looked like “Woody the Woodpecker”. You made fun of it, you joked of it, but after a couple days everything started getting back to normal. Interviewer: “How did you get out of this, you never crossed the equator before?” No, everybody wasn’t initiated, they didn’t have the time to—because there were so many troops on there, I don’t know how many thousands were on there, but there were quite a few. 32:37 To initiate each one of them would have taken, I don’t know, maybe a couple of days or so. Interviewer: “All right, so what about, this is your first time on a major ship or even a boat, what was your physical reaction to being on a boat for that long?” Well, I don’t know, I kind of enjoyed it, we would get out and you would see nothing but ocean and water and everybody seemed to have been in a, I don’t say a jovial mood, but it was a, I want to say, contained. 33:21 We did have our division orchestra on board ship and they played in the afternoon and in the evening, we had a fella that was a very good singer and I think his name was— I know his last name was Fisher and don’t get him mixed up with Eddie, I think his first name was Frank, in fact he just died maybe 4 or 5 years ago, but the going song at that time was “Tangerine” and of course the “Beer Barrel Polka” and we had some good entertainment. 33:59 That kind of took the worries off of everybody. Interviewer: “You know Bob Hartman talked about eating lemon drops because he was so seasick, did you have any reaction to seasickness?” A little bit, not too much, but some of the fellas in the bay when we left a harbor to get out into the open ocean, San Francisco bay was pretty rough and a lot of them got sick big time. I think I got maybe nauseated, but not to a point where I was really sick. 34:37 8 �Interviewer: “So, now where did you land?” Adelaide, the southern part of Australia, we landed there and people came out and they greeted us, people were very warm and friendly, of course they realized they needed us, we really went there to save them. We unloaded the ships, we went to camp, I don’t remember the name of the camp we went to, but that was our initial point and then from there we went to Brisbane and from Adelaide to Brisbane we had to change trains 3 different times. They had 3 different gauges of railroad, I think that’s the way the government operated, it was like going from Michigan to Ohio and the minute you hit the Ohio border, they had a different gauge railroad, you had to get off here, take off all your equipment and put it on the next train and go to that one and when you hit say Pennsylvania, you had to stop the train, get off, take your equipment and put it on another train because they had a different gauge railroad. 36:03 Interviewer: “By now you must realize your going into battle, you’re on foreign soil, did anybody tell you what you were going to do next?” No, no, we went into Brisbane and we did have some Australian officers come in and they were telling us about the way the Japanese operated, their experience with them, they told us about the Japanese tying themselves up in the trees, so that if you did walk into combat everything wasn’t on the ground, you had to be careful because they were up in the trees and even if you shot in the trees and killed one of them they wouldn’t fall out because they strapped themselves in, so that was something that had to be considered or thought about when we were going into combat. 37:08 Interviewer: “Now Steve, you’re training up to this point were WWI type tactics and now your entering into jungle conditions, did you have any clue what jungle conditions were going to look like?” No, not a thing, nothing at all, when we were in Brisbane all we had was some of the remarks that the Australians came in and told us about and they stressed that the Japanese are cunning, they’re ruthless, you had to be on the alert and realize that they are in trees. This was the initial point because when you go into combat you know, your scared and at the first burst of fire, your first thought comes that they are in front of you, but then again by them telling us, “you have to watch out for the trees” and everything else involved, your not going in there half cocked. 38:20 Interviewer: “So at this point in time, you’re in a totally different environment than Louisiana, where you issued any kind of clothes or camouflage for the jungle campaign?” They weren’t camouflage, we had, boy I’ll tell ya, I don’t even remember what we had now. Khakis maybe. Interviewer: “Well some of the guys had talked about some officer that had an idea about painting camouflage on.” It didn’t happen to us, it didn’t happen to us and I don’t know, I think we had dungarees, but I’m not quite sure, it doesn’t come to mind. 9 �Interviewer: “That’s all right. So where did you go from there? Oh, one other thing, I understand that the Australians that you were talking to actually had experience outside of the jungle, they were called “the rats of Tobruk” or something?” They fought in the middle east, they were in Tobruk and some of them did fight the Japanese and they came in—those that were in Tobruk and did fight the Japanese, their the ones that came and told us kind of what to expect because most of the Australian troops were still in the middle east. 39:56 They didn’t get home until sometime in 1943. Interviewer: “So, where did you go next?” We boarded liberty ships in Brisbane and the way I understand it, we were brought out into the Coral Sea as bait to try to draw the Japanese Navy out and our Navy engaged them in the battle of the Coral Sea as we were going towards Port Moresby, New Guinea, you could stand on the deck of the ship in the evening and see the reflections of the guns that were being fired in the sky. 40:46 Interviewer: “So, you arrived safely?” Well we had quite a storm in the Coral Sea, I’ve never seen a storm like this in all my life, we had a boat that was strapped down on the liberty ship, which I thought at the time was a yacht, but they called it a dingy I guess and there were a couple of soldiers sleeping in there and the wind pulled that boat right off the deck of the boat, pulled the bolts right off and the thing flew back maybe 5 or 6 miles and one of the other ships picked up the Australians that were in there, but it was quite an experience. 41:33 Interviewer: “So, where did you arrive?” Port Moresby. Interviewer: “What did you find there?” There wasn’t too much there, there were some G.I.’s there, but I don’t remember if they were ours or Australian. The first thing I remember as we were getting off the ship was there were a couple of bombers in the sky, but really, I don’t remember whether they were Japanese or they were our. 42:04 I think they were Japanese, but there was no firing going on and we moved from there to someplace about maybe 20 miles, I would say, north and west of Port Moresby. Interviewer: “At any time were you informed as to where you were going and what you would be doing?” Well, we knew we were going into combat, but we didn’t know how many troops we were facing, I don’t think anybody knew how many troops the Japanese had on the island, all I knew was that we were told that we’re going to have to take Buna and of course us being Americans you know, you figure well, were Americans, not going to be a bid problem, but we found out in a hurry that it would be. 43:07 Interview: “So how did you get to—were you marching on Buna at this point? What happened next?” No, after we got into a staging area, we were there I think a couple days and then they took us to the airport by truck and some of us flew about maybe halfway above the—into 10 �the Owen Stanley Mountains and we landed in a little airstrip there and from there on, we started trekking over the Owen Stanley Mountains. 43:44 Interviewer: “How was the weather?” The weather was hot, where we landed it was fairly decent, the clearing was pretty serene, but once we got out of that clearing and got into the jungle, the path towards Buna was maybe the width of a hand and a half or 2 feet or so. That is when we started running into rain, mud, the conditions started getting pretty rough. 44:17 Interviewer: “I’ve been in the jungle before, were there bugs and noises? Give us an idea of what it was like walking through there?” There were Macaws, what are they Parrots? Cockatoos, you hear all of that stuff, it’s kind of like what you see in a jungle movie, this is what you heard, the same sounds, but the deeper you got into the jungle, the Japanese where they were—we started coming in at one point and the Japanese were already in there and pushed back by the Australians, you didn’t hear too much of that anymore. 45:03 When we come into a village, the people knew we were coming, the natives, they moved their women right out of there and the kids, I think they were abused by the Japanese and they wanted no part of any outsider coming in so, they were out of the little villages, but we slogged through that stuff and then we got to a point to where, when your coming through the fields, it was nothing but mud and it rained every day at 3:00 in the afternoon and again at night about 11:00 and it was just indescribable, I don’t know how to put it, just mud, just plain mud. 45:48 Interviewer: “Now your climbing a hill or a mountain, so how do you, with all this equipment you got on and it’s muddy, you take a couple of steps up and what happens?” You take 2 steps up and you slide back about 50 feet, after a little bit you start taking your equipment and the stuff your pretty positive you’re not going to use, you start throwing it away. We took—the first thing I took off was the leggings, then you cut your pants off and you throw your razor away, you throw some of your other stuff away that you’re pretty sure you’re not going to need—mosquito bar, you throw that away, and after a few days, just before we hit the front line, some of the fellas started throwing away their rifles and their pistols, it was too heavy to carry. When we did finally get within 3 miles of the front line they realized that a lot of the equipment we had was gone, but they started airlifting it to us and by that time a lot of the guys were sick and they were sick big time. 47:04 Malaria, dengue fever, diarrhea, every imaginable disease that you would catch in a jungle, we started getting it. Interviewer: “So, what would happen to those soldiers that got sick?” Some of them that did get malaria, they were fortunate, they sent them back to a field hospital and they either sent them back to Australia and I understand some of them were sent back to the United States. 47:38 The others, once we got into the front line, we were desperate, we weren’t getting any replacements, unless you had a 105° fever or passed out, you stayed on the front line. 11 �Interviewer: “Before we get to the front line, let’s talk about how long did it take for you to get to the front line? Was it a couple days? Was it a week?” Oh, no, a couple weeks that I know of, a couple of weeks, I can’t give an exact amount. Interviewer: “I just want to get a general idea.” I would say a couple of weeks. Interviewer: “What were you eating?” They would drop us “bully beef”, which is corned beef, we had some I think “C” rations, they were little cans about that big, the best one was beans and hamburger. We did have some rice, they gave us—each of us had a handful of rice and they told us that when we stopped for the evening we could build a fire and we’d cook up our rice and we would share it, but you couldn’t built a fire because everything was saturated with water, so the rice didn’t do us any good. 49:03 The corned beef that they dropped us, a lot of guys got sick on it, it was actually putrid. Interviewer: “What about fruit? Bananas?” No, nothing like that. After a little bit we did see some banana trees, but they were all chopped down, not by machetes, but by machine gun fire, they were no fruits. 49:50 Interviewer: “So, when did you—what was your first indication that you were nearing the front lines? Did you hear machine gun fire? Did you hear guns? How did you know that you were right there at the front line?” Well, I don’t remember hearing any gun fire, if I’m not mistaken, I think we heard some artillery fire and we started walking—there was a clearing and when we got out of this clearing, we walked onto the jungle and we followed this path and then that’s when all hell broke lose. 50:38 That’s when we knew we were in big trouble. Some of the guys that walked in there never knew what hit them, we weren’t in there maybe 3 or 4 minutes and we lost quite a few guys, there was no screaming, no hollering, we were dumb founded, we didn’t know what to do, we actually didn’t know—we knew we were in a fight, but we didn’t know what was happening, we didn’t know which way to go, right or left, straight or back or whatever, but after a little bit we start thinking and we know were in big trouble. 51:30 So, we’re running for cover, we’re firing as we’re laying on the ground then you start realizing and thinking about what the Australians told ya, they’re not only in front of you, they’re above you, so you start shooting into the trees that are up, hoping you got some of them. At one time some of the Japanese would fire or they would shoot off fireworks and the fireworks would land behind you and that would scare the hell out of you because you didn’t know whether they were behind you, in front of you, it was quite an experience the first day. 52:16 Interviewer: “You know it’s hard to describe this kind of battle because if you were in Europe for example, you have an open field and you see guns ahead of you and you see the soldiers out, what was it like in your type of battle, could you see the guys to your right and your left, or in front of you, what was your field of vision like?” Limited, you could see somebody maybe 2 feet away, but the jungle was so overgrown that if they got about 4 feet away you had to make sure that it was them that you were— 12 �you knew they were on either side of you, but you weren’t sure, you had to be awfully careful that you didn’t lose your senses and shoot at anything that’s moving because after a little bit the least little movement, you’re raising your gun and your shooting. 53:12 Interviewer: “You know I have walked through the jungle many times, never in combat, but in the Boy Scouts and it can be a pretty noisy experience, tromping through—it’s not like you have a path there, so kind of give us an idea what the sounds were like at this time, did you hear rustling leaves around you and bullets going off, what’s going on?” You don’t hear so much of the rustling leaves, you hear the bullets going off, you hear some hollering, somebody would probably holler that it’s coming from the right or it’s coming from the left, so you kind of start shooting wherever the voice is coming from and then if your moving along you had to watch out because this was all swamp and if you stepped over say a log and you fell into a hole and you were in mud and water up to here, you’re wondering “how am I going to get out of this?” You certainly don’t want to let go of your rifle because that’s the only thing you got for protection. 54:15 You do, you turn around and you try to crawl back out and overall I would say it’s just instinct, you’re doing anything to keep yourself from getting killed and if you have to just dunk into your neck in this swamp and whatever, you do that to give yourself a push to get yourself up over the stump or whatever it is that’s laying there and then you’re—I don’t know how to finish that. 54:59 Interviewer: “Was there a point, you say in terms of instinct, was there a point where you could tell the difference between the sounds of their guns and your guns?” Well, their guns, you could tell if they were firing their rifles, the 25 caliber had kind of a snap to it, our guns had a hard bang, you could tell the difference between our rifles and their rifles, but when it came to the machine guns, the sounds were, I would say the same, you don’t pay no attention and all you knew was the machine guns were going off and you better duck someplace, you don’t know who’s firing, it could be them or us, but you were going to lay down and make doggone sure that you didn’t get it. 56:01 Interviewer: “What about things like hand grenades and mortar, what other kinds of weapons were being used?” Well, hand grenades, I don’t think we used hand grenades because we couldn’t see the enemy. We didn’t know where to throw them. I do understand that some guys would throw a grenade if they did see the Japs wherever they were and the Jap would pick it up and throw it back at them. I haven’t seen it, I haven’t done it, I don’t know. Interviewer: “Did you ever see a Japanese?” A couple of them, I saw them and you shoot and they’re not there no more. Interviewer: “Did you ever-- at some point, the battle either wound down or ended, how did it end?” It was quiet and all your doing is, your starting to move forward and you’re just wondering when is the next one going to start, because you’re always, you know that this one here was a little experience, but what are you going to hit on the next one, because they regroup also and they were wise in their ways, so each one ahead was going to be a little bit stronger than this one. 57:37 13 �Interviewer: “Now how were you organized at this time and was there a Sergeant or Lieutenant that come upon you and said we’re moving in this direction?” No, you would hear the Lieutenants say “we’re coming this way” or “we’re going that way” so you followed his voice, but there were no groups, I mean once it started you were kind of more or less on your own, you knew where the other guys were, but there was no regrouping and saying, were going here or were going there. I remember one time towards evening, the lieutenant came up and he said that a squad killed an officer and they left him there and he wanted 3 or 4 fellas to go down and guard this, it was a Japanese officer, so he sent 3 or 4 of us out and we thought this Lieutenant was crazy, we’re going to go guard a Japanese officer that was dead, but we were told that they do come back and do bury their officers, so when we got there, this officer was laying there and we stood there and looked at him and the guy said, “hey, to hell with him, he’s dead, we’re not staying here leaving ourselves wide open”, so we went back and the Lieutenant says,” well, was he taken care of? ”. We said, “ya”, and he said, “What happened to him?” We said, “we don’t know what happened to him, he was gone”, and we let it go at that. 59:22 Interviewer: “So, when nightfall came, what happened?” You dug a foxhole and you got in the foxhole and you stayed there. You didn’t dare move because if you moved, even your own men, not knowing who you were, would fire and then when you were in a foxhole, as long as the tide was out you were ok, but the minute the tide came in, the water from underneath came up into that foxhole and you’re laying in that water and mud too, so it was pretty rough. 59:57 Interviewer: “What kind of clothes were you wearing at this time? Was it cold or was it hot at night? What was it like?” The clothes we had on was what we left Port Moresby with, I would say they were dungarees or uh, mostly dungarees. 0:20 It wasn’t cold, but it did get cold when it rained. It was cold during the night, but not to a point where it’s freezing, very uncomfortable, but then in the morning when the sun came out you dried out in no time at all, it got pretty hot. 0:39 Interviewer: “So, did you have to dry your sox or anything like that?” No they rotted off of you, you didn’t worry about them. Your clothes actually started rotting off of you. At the last I did contact malaria, I passed out and I remember waking up in a field hospital on Townsville, Australia. They tell me that I was out for maybe 2 weeks. I did leave the front line with a 105° fever and if it was less than that you couldn’t leave. 1:26 I woke up in the hospital in Townsville and I’m sure when I left them it was the first part of January 1943. After a little bit in the hospital in Townsville, they sent me down to Sidney. I was in Sidney for a while and then I joined the 32nd again in New Castle, we were there taking boat training landing and after a while there I ended up back in the hospital with malaria and I don’t know how long I was in then. 2:21 After I got out, I was going to join our outfit back and they went up into New Guinea into Saidor. I didn’t join them there, I ended up back in the hospital, I must have been in and out of the hospital in Sidney for about a year’s time off and on. 2:46 14 �Interviewer: “A lot of people are not going to know what it’s like to have malaria, but describe the actual malaria, what it did to your body.” Malaria, when you get malaria you’ve got a 105 or whatever fever you got, you’re sweating, you’re clothes are saturated, you’re soaking wet and you’re freezing to death. 3:11 They’ll put blankets on you, they’ll put 10,12,15 blankets on you and it makes no difference, you’re freezing to death and all of a sudden you’re so hot, you have to take these covers off and you’re sweating and before you know, you’re getting delirious. Between sweating and freezing and delirium, you pass out and how they bring you to, I don’t know. 3:38 Interviewer: “So, over a period of time, you’re in bed, you recover and they take you out of the hospital.” Right. Interviewer: “You said in and out of hospitals.” In-between time, they put you—I was put in a base section outfit in Sydney. It was a dog track, they use to run Greyhound dogs there and a lot of these people that were in there, they worked in the offices for the government, they were all G.I.’s, they worked in the offices in Sidney, some of them worked in the motor pool, some of them were in transportation, they drove officers around, they drove visiting dignitaries and after a little bit, they put me in the motor pool and I worked in a part where they painted the automobiles, if they had an accident with them, they had a body shop and the guys repaired the things and we re-painted them olive drab. 4:46 Between that and back and forth to the hospital, back here and back there, it was kind of a regular routine, you would work for a while and you got sick and ended up in the hospital. 5:00 Interviewer: “So, the sickness would come on you gradually?” Oh, it came on, it didn’t come gradually, it came on when you started shivering you knew it was coming on and by the time they got to you, you were really more or less out of it. Interviewer: “Just jumping ahead, how long after the war did you continue to have that?” 5:23 I think I ended up in the hospital, rather I should say, I didn’t end up in the hospital here, I had malaria once, but it was no place near what it was when we were overseas and after I had it in Australia and I got into the motor pool there and after a little bit, I felt like I was doing pretty good so, I kind of requested that I go back to my outfit, I don’t know why, I think a man is a damn fool to do something like that, but they were starting to send men home on points and I don’t even know how they figured out their points, but if you had enough points you were next in line to go home so, I thought, “well, if I go back to my outfit, I should have more points than some of the replacements that just came in there, I just might be able to get sent home”, so I went and I joined them in New Guinea and we made a beach landing in Morotai. 6:37 Interviewer: “Why don’t you describe that because you said you had some training, some beach training already?” 15 �Ya, we had beach training then, we got on the LCI’s, landing craft infantry, and there was very little opposition on Morotai. So, I don’t say it was a piece of cake, but it was something that when the ramp dropped and you got off and ran onto shore, you made it. There wasn’t that much fighting there. 7:07 We were there for a while and we boarded liberty ships again and we went over to the Philippines and we landed at Leyte. We got off the liberty ship in Leyte, landed on the island of Leyte and I went up to the little town of Tacloban. There was a pineapple plantation there and by this time the jungle is entirely different from New Guinea. 7:48 It’s no more jungle, these are pineapple plantations, bananas, coconuts and whatever, but I ended up in a pineapple plantation and after about a week of fighting there, again I got malaria. 8:07 They took me back to the field hospital and they treated me and I started feeling pretty good so, I went along the beach there, walking around wondering what my next move will be, what’s going to happen to me and that’s when I saw 3 LCI’s coming in and 2 of them as they neared the shore, they went like this and they left a great big stream, that wake and everything, the 3rd one come in straight and they dropped the ramp and 2 guys come off and I looked and it was MacArthur, 2 guys grabbed him and took him off that ramp and put him in the water and they almost fell over and another guy had to come back and steady MacArthur and they figured the water was too deep, so they got him back on that ramp and they got him back on the LCI and they backed up raised the ramp and they brought him back in and they got closer and they lowered the ramp and 2 of the guys brought him out and they set him down in about a foot of water and he put his glasses on, he put his pipe in his mouth and he said, “I have returned” and some of the guys said, “well, where in the hell have you been?” 9:40 At that time, I just turned around, to me it made no difference, he had led us into slaughter in New Guinea and a lot of guys didn’t have any respect for him at all and I went back to the field hospital and the doctor came up and he said, “how are you feeling?” I told him, I said, “you know, I’m sick and tired of this whole damn thing” and he said, “boy you’re kind of”, I forget how he said that and I said, “well, I’ve been here a long time” and he said, “how long have you been here?” and I said, “I’ve been here since September of 1942” and I told him that I fought in New Guinea and Morotai and he said, “I think you’ve been here quite a while, I’ll make some arrangements for you” and I came down with malaria again and they got me on a hospital ship and I left the Philippines on a hospital ship and landed in San Francisco and from there I went to, on a train, well from there I went to what was that, Letterman General Hospital, I think that’s the one that’s in San Francisco, Letterman. 11:07 I was there for maybe a week and they sent me over to Camp Atterberry and when I got in Camp Atterberry they right away said that I could go home on furlough and I got home--I landed back in the states maybe the first week in January, the second week, then I got home, I think it was the last day of January. 11:35 I went into a bar on Coldbrook and Ionia, Kelly’s Bar, and I said, “I’d like a shot and a beer” and the guy looked at me and he said, ‘I can’t serve you, you’re not 21”. I was going to be 21 in 4 days, February 4th, so he said, “If you want anything to drink, you go upstairs, the refrigerator is full, help yourself”. I don’t want to drink that way, I want to drink with these people, but he let it go at that and my birthday was February 4th and my sister was going to bake a cake for me and she had no sugar so, I went to a little food store on the west side, about 2 blocks from where we lived and I bought 5 pounds of sugar, he sold it to me, you need a coupon and I didn’t have any, but I 16 �bought 5 pounds of sugar and it cost me $10.00. 12:40 I was glad to get it and she made me a birthday cake and that’s when things started to get a little bit better. Interviewer: “Describe your arrival back home. I mean, did they know you were alive?” They knew I was alive because I called home from San Francisco. I told them I was home, I was on American soil, I didn’t know when I was going to get home, but when I get home I will call you, or something to that effect. When I left Indianapolis on a train, it was day coach and we were pulling into the Union Depot in Grand Rapids and I knew that nobody was going to be at the depot for me because my dad was working in the furniture factory and my mom was home, my older sister, she was working in a defense plant, it was Applied Arts, I knew there wasn’t going to be anybody there, so when the train slowed down instead of getting off this side to go through the depot, I jumped off this side and I walked over Fulton Street bridge and I walked up Fulton Street and I just kind of took my time and I looked around and cried and I got home. 14:13 When my ma saw me, she cried and I cried and that was about it. Interviewer: “Steve, in your study there you’ve got several medals, one of them is a Bronze Star, was there a ceremony when you got it, did it just come in the mail?” All these medals that I got, I had to go through the legion in order to get them and it took me about 4 years to get them. I had to write to the Department of Records in St. Louis and then I got quite a few letters back from them stating that they had a fire there and they couldn’t find my records and I had to go through a board and as they were getting all this stuff together, I did have statements from officers from the 32nd, here in Grand Rapids, that were with me going through the islands, that verified that I was with them and fought with them in these different places and we sent all of that back into the department of records and they sent all of my medals to me. 15:43 There was no ceremony. Interviewer: “Why did you win the Bronze Star?” I think for being there. Interviewer: “That was enough?” That was enough I guess. Interviewer: “One of the questions I always ask at the end of an interview is, what did you personally feel you accomplished out there?” “Everlasting friendship.” 16:23 You never have friendship like this anyplace. The people you fought with, the people you live with, we know each other better than their parents know them or their wives, even to this day. You have a lot of faith in them, you have a lot of trust, you have a lot of respect and I think that’s all the guys’ want is respect. 16:50 Interviewer: “Steve, what do you think you personally got out of this experience, when you came back? Obviously, you were a 16 year old kid when you went there, what do you think—what changed, who was the Steve that came back?” 17 �Well, I grew up, I realized that you’re not as cocky as you were when you were home, you realize that people have feelings, you have to watch out how you approach people, you gotta treat people or you’ll learn to treat people the way—in short, you don’t want to hurt people. You want to treat them the way you would like to be treated and you have to realize that there are so many different people in this world, different religions, you have to respect their religious beliefs and I think you’re no better than the next person, you are who you are and when you go to bed at night and wake up in the morning and look at yourself in the mirror, you know who you are, you know what you did and what you have gone through, it gives you a damn good feeling that you accomplished something that you’re not ashamed of. 18:55 That’s it. Interviewer: “Recently the Michigan Military Museum hosted a seminar, The Great Lakes History Conference and a couple of you actually had a chance to get up in front of an audience and I just wanted to hear your reaction to that. It was the first time you guys ever got up in that kind of a situation and how do you think the audience responded and how did you guys react to the response?” Well, I think that’s a good thing that happened. It brought back a lot of memories, it brought back a lot of things that should be said that weren’t said and it brought back the openness of all of us getting together and talking about, a little bit, what we did or what we tried to do without making yourself, or trying to make yourself a hero, we’re not hero’s, we were all in this together and we all helped one another and I think the biggest word there is help. 20:15 That’s about it. Interviewer: “So, did you ever swim in that swimming pool?” You know they tore the dang thing down for the freeway. I never did get to swim in that pool. You know, I laugh about it now, it’s awful funny, but I don’t regret one thing, nothing that I went through, nothing, I don’t regret anything. Interviewer: “Very good.” 18 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JanickiS Title A name given to the resource Janicki, Steve (Interview transcript and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Janicki, Steve Description An account of the resource Steve Janicki served in the 126th Infantry Regiment, 32nd (Red Arrow) Division, during WW II. His history includes some colorful accounts of his joining the guard and going through basic training (he was 16 at the time, and not even shaving yet). He covers the trip to Australia by ocean liner, additional training in Australia, and the difficulties of fighting in the jungle. Illness took him out of action at Buna in New Guinea, but he rejoined his unit for some of the later battles, and tells of seeing MacArthur on Leyte in the Philippines. His history was featured in the documentary Nightmare in New Guinea. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-08-20 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aac8b731d4dc43b0dbd427a14e25df6c.mp4 ed938dca55165e99bc76d3b7210b8371 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/baa25344f77443fa5ffe54e1c8078ad2.pdf d608b165b6e69d084ca9a67b5197a66c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Name of War: World War II Interviewee Name: Don Jandernoa Length of Transcript: (01:45:15) Interviewer: ―Don, I wonder if we could start off with, when and where you were born.‖ I was born in the little town of Pewamo on the 29th of January 1924, a town of about 500 people. My father was a veterinarian and we always wanted to have farms also, so when I was about seven, he bought a farm on the edge of town and that’s where I grew up. 1:35 Interviewer: ―What was your early childhood like? Were you a farm boy so to speak?‖ Oh yes, we had chores from the time we moved to the farm and by the time I was ten or eleven, I was milking cows and running tractors. As a matter of fact, we got my grandpa’s Model T and at the age of eleven I was running that Model T around the farm and at the age of 14, in those days, you could get a full-unrestricted license, of course there weren’t a lot of cars in those days, so it was quite a different thing. (02:30) Interviewer: ―Now you are very tall, were you a tall child? I got most of my height by the time I was 14. I about 6’2 ½‖, I’m shrinking a little bit with old age. (02:42) Interviewer: ―What was your early schooling like?‖ One year in the Catholic school and then it was depression time and they couldn’t afford to keep the school open, so we went to the public school, which was very strict. I remember, for example, when I was a sophomore one of my buddies came out of the principal’s office with blood running down his cheek. We couldn’t get away with things. In those days you got disciplined. The worst thing that could happen was if you got in trouble in school and your parents found out because you got more discipline at home, but that was a different era and physical punishment was not unusual. (03:15) Interviewer: “So just for your grandchildren’s sake, did you end up in the principal’s office at all?‖ One time when I was about in the third grade and I thought I would die. I was told to go upstairs to the principal’s office. I can’t recall the reason anymore, but I survived. Interviewer: ―Your father was a farmer and your mother was a homemaker?‖ Yes, my mother came from Holland at the age of 20 and she spoke English so well that most people didn’t know that she was an immigrant. They met here in Grand Rapids; my father came here to veterinary school and graduated in 1916. The Grand Rapids Veterinary School also was part of a medical school and the five of us [children] are all still alive, all 70-88 and all in good health even though we have fought cancer and heart 1 �disease, one has had a kidney removed, but for the grace of God, I lost a brother at 46 from cancer, but that was 25 years ago. (04:39) Interviewer: ―What was farm life like during the depression?‖ It was tough, but you didn’t know it. We were poor, but nobody told us. We had a good time. We had six horses and a big old Fortson tractor with steel wheels. Later we got a better tractor, we got down to four horses and then 2 horses and then in 1940, my dad traded the last team of horses in for another tractor and the word spread around the community that ―doc Jandernoa, the veterinarian, he’s gone daft because you can’t farm without horses.‖ That’s the way it was in those days, if you had 80 acres that was considered to be a pretty good-sized farm. We had everything, some of us milked cows, we had a few beef cattle and we had sheep, horses, 450 chicks every spring and a couple hundred hogs. We never suffered for lack of food. We also had two big gardens and I don’t feel about those so fondly because I was the oldest boy and I had to do most of the hoeing, but I survived it and it didn’t hurt me. (05:50) Interviewer: ―Did your parents and your home have a radio?‖ Yes, we had one of those old models with the arched top. There are probably some of them still around, but we would crowd around it in the evening; of course we didn’t have any TV then. As a matter of fact we had a radio out in the barn and it was December 7th, a Sunday evening, and I was milking the cows and all of a sudden I heard on the radio that the Japs had attacked Pearl Harbor. I don’t know where the milk went, but I ran into the house and said, ―Turn on the radio, war!‖ and of course I wanted to go to war, but my dad had other ideas. (06:30) Interviewer: ―Let’s back track a little bit. The reason I got into the radio part of it was, were you aware of the rumblings of war that were going on in Germany and Japan?‖ Primarily, because we had an outstanding superintendent of our schools who also taught civics and history and he delighted in talking about current events. So we watched Germany, I started in school in ―37‖ and Germany was building up it’s armed forces and it was 1938, I believe when Neville Chamberlain went over and signed documents with Hitler. We had that paper in school and it said at the tip, ―Peace in Our Time‖ and it showed Chamberlain getting off the plane waving the papers and he thought he had peace. Then within six months Hitler just moved on you know. (07:20) Interviewer: ―It’s a very famous picture, I know just which one you are talking about.‖ ―The reason I asked that is, I’m trying to get at the heart of the reason why you would eventually want to join. You had some knowledge of what was going on, did you have, even at that age, any kind of opinion if it was wrong?‖ Hitler was very wrong and we were very anti-Hitler, but on the other hand there were a lot of Americans who said, ―Well that’s their war and we don’t want to get involved‖, including Senator Vandenberg, who was from Grand Rapids and a very powerful man in the house and senate at that time, he changed his mind and became very pro-war. (08:00) 2 �Interviewer: ― People don’t realize that Charles Lindbergh, a very famous major American hero at that time, was touring the country was saying that we shouldn’t get involved in another war in Europe. So the radio announcement was a shock to you and your family as well. What about your neighbors were there talk amongst your group at church or something?‖ Interviewer: The draft started, see Roosevelt saw the war coming on and a few others did, so we started building up machines and armaments. I remember, we started the draft and one of my friends, who is still alive, went into the army back in 1940 as I recall and he was in for five years, so as a few more guys got drafted, you became more and more aware and thought is that going to happen to be etc, etc. (08:47) Interviewer: ―What about your father? You alluded somewhat to there being a disagreement as to whether you should join. What was behind that?‖ Well, dad was in WWI as a Veterinarian with about 200 guys, and would you believe that in WWI they still had a few battles where they fought with cavalry with horses and sabers and his job was to keep the horses in shape for that and horses were used a lot to pull the trucks out of the mud because they had those trucks with chains that drove the back wheels etc. He had been over there and he had survived, he had pneumonia, he didn’t get injured, but he just said, ―Hey I was in the last was, we’re just going to skip this one‖. (09:26) I didn’t feel that way because I wanted to get in there, you know. I just wanted to get away into the military. Interviewer: “Eventually you did get into the military. What was the process in all of that and how did it happen?‖ Well, I graduated from school on May 15th of 1941 and my dad said, ―If you stay on the farm for a year and work, I’ll help you go through Michigan State, which was Michigan State College in those days and is now a University, and become a veterinarian, which seemed like a good deal, but then on the 7th of December when the Japs attacked, everything changed. My dad was opposed to my going and I kept working on the farm. On the 5th of September in 1942 I heard the air corps was having a test in Grand Rapids, I mean in Lansing, and it was in the afternoon about 1:30 or something like that. Anyway, I hitchhiked, now dad probably thought I was on one of the farms and my mom thought I was on another farm, but in those days you could hitchhike. I had hitchhiked to New York and Minnesota and everyplace, so I hitchhiked to Lansing and I walked into what I think was the Elks building and as you walked in you were about four feet above the main level and it was about the size of a basketball court out there and I first saw U of M, I saw Michigan State, I saw U of D, Aquinas, I don’t know about Aquinas, but Notre Dame and these guys had obviously been at school for at least a year because you don’t get a letter when you start college, you get it when you have been there a year or two. (11:07) I was thinking I was in over my head, just a high school kid with no extra training and I paused and thought, ―nobody knows I’m here, my mother doesn’t know I’m here and my dad doesn’t know I’m here and I can turn around and nobody will ever know except me and God.‖ By the grace of God, I went in and took the test. The test took a couple of hours and I think the only reason I did well was because I used to read, I read an awful lot and we got a good education, but not a broad education. I was short for example on calculus; I’d never had that. So when everyone had their test and they’re 3 �calling people half the guys had left and I went up to the table and I said, ―Sir I’ve got to milk the cows, can I leave?‖ He said, ―What’s your name?‖ I told him and he looks over here and he said, ―Oh ya, you got a good score, you stay.‖ So, out of 83 only eleven passed, think of the odds. (12:08) Then they started giving us physicals. You had to have perfect eyesight, 20-20, so out of the eleven only four passed and one had to come back for a recheck on his eyesight, one guy had a bad cold, one guy had a hearing problem and I was the only guy that could go right then. The guy said, ―sign right here‖ and I said, ―I can’t.‖ He said, ―You want to go into the air corps don’t you?‖ and I said, ―Ya‖ and he said, ―Well sign.‖ I said, ―I can’t, my dad will kill me‖ and I meant that because in those days you weren’t an adult until you were 21 and I’m only 18 now. My dad used to say, ―As long as you put your feet under my table, I make the final decisions‖ so, I hitchhiked back home and I started working on my father to let me go and finally in November he said, ―Look you’re not a very happy camper, you might as well go.‖ On the 11th of November 1942, I went to join the air corps. (13:00) Now they said, ―Were too busy, we can’t take you now‖ and I didn’t get in until January. Interviewer: ―Why the air corps as opposed to the army or navy?‖ At the age of eleven, I went to the Ionia Free Fair and I had a few dollars and there was a Ford tri-motor and it went across this rough parking lot that is still there and I thought it was very interesting and I went over there and my sister gave me my money because they didn’t want me to tag along with them so, they said they would meet me at so and so at (05:00). I stood out there for a while and a guy was there with a card table and I sign and I said, ―Mister, how much would it cost for me?‖ He said, ―Three dollars.‖ I had three bucks so that was my first flight. I can still remember that it was corrugated steel and it was like going into a corrugated steel building. There were steel ribs and there was no insulation or anything. It pounded across the field, but we got up in the air and I swear the guy started turning for the landing the minute he got the wheels off, but that’s the way they made money. (14:02) That was my first experience. My dad had a farm which was across the road from the Lansing Airport and as a little kid I used to go over there with him and I am talking about 5,6 and 7 now, and I would stand under a tree and watch those planes take off. I used to say, ―Lord, I don’t want anybody to get hurt, but if there’s going to be an accident anyway, why don’t you have it right over there so I can see it?‖ Kind of odd, but I remember that very well. Interviewer: ―I have heard from Army Air Corps guys from WWII tell a whole myriad of stories, but they all came down to sometime in their childhood, they either saw a plane or they got into a plane and that was it. They had to get into an airplane and they had to fly. Some of them washed out and ended up as bombardiers, navigators, etc., but a few of them became pilots. So what was the next step then? Your father finally relented, what was your mother’s opinion of all this?‖ Mom was very supportive, I think she wanted me to stay home, but she wouldn’t block me and I had an older sister who was very much in my corner and she worked on dad I’m sure. (15:10) Finally I got a telegram, in those days a lot of people didn’t have telephones, but we did because my dad was a veterinarian. I got a telegram and it said to report on the 28th of January 1943, in Detroit at the old Fort, Fort Wayne, which is still there today, and so for the first time in my life, my dad and my mother and the 6 children 4 �went out to a restaurant. First time, you didn’t do those things in those days because you didn’t have the money. We went to ―Chicken in the Rough‖, which was a block east of Grand River and Michigan Avenue in Lansing, on the NW corner. What you got was you got a basket with chicken and French fries and no utensils. We thought that was fantastic you know and I got on the bus and went to Detroit and then got on a train, coal fired, and it took us 56 hours to go from Detroit to Miami Beach and everyone had on white shirts, we didn’t have green shirts or blue shirts in those days. You were told to bring one set of underwear, that is all so, we got down there and we didn’t get our regular uniforms for eleven days. Did you ever see shat a white shirt looks like after it has been washed out eleven nights? Anyway, they put us up in a hotel, which was a dream because I expected we were going to be in tents, but during the service, the armed forces took over a lot of the civilian things. Well, they took over some of the nice hotels and ours was a three-story hotel, it was kind of inconvenient because I had to walk a whole block over to the ocean and I had never even seen the ocean before, and we had to walk a mile up to the golf course where we did our training. (16:52) Then we had mail call and for mail call we would line up in front of the hotel, there were just a few civilians, and we would line up in three ranks and you had to be very proper and turn etc. We had a guy by the name of Klink, a guy by the name of Clank, a guy by the name of Damm, a guy by the name of Jordan, whose fiancé wrote behind his name ―The man I love‖ and they couldn’t pronounce my name so, mail call went like this: Klink, Clank, Klink, Damm, Damm anybody seen Damm? The man I love, and finally Geronimo, and that was me. (17:22) so that was an experience I can---there were two little guys, Sammy and the Greek and they were not more than 5’6‖, but they had voices that were 10’10‖ and you could hear them for 10 miles. A great experience, good discipline, a lot of effort, sweat like mad, but just a great start. Interviewer: ―Let’s back up just a little bit to your arrival at the hotel. You’re with a group of people from where?‖ Michigan I believe. Interviewer: ―This is a new experience to you though, what were your first impressions of the army life so to speak?‖ I loved it because of the discipline you know, I loved to run and we did a lot of running, a lot of exercise. The guy that led the exercise was the coach at Yale, I can’t remember his name, but he was a rather stout guy and he was only about 5’8‖ and they had an elevated bench, not a bench, but a stand out there and he’d get up on there and he’d have a couple of hundred guys out there and he would say, ―Were all going to do push-ups and I would look out of the corner of my eye and he would say one and stop and he would say two and stop and catch his breath, three and stop and then we had to do 50 push-ups and then we had to do 50 sit-ups, but it was great because we were young and strong, we were selected, we had good health and they pushed us hard and we enjoyed it and the challenge. (18:48) Interviewer: ―Mostly when you think of ―Boot Camp‖ you think of barracks, you think of the parade ground, but you are saying this was different for you, you were training on a golf course. I have only met one other veteran that had an experience like that. 5 �You gotta be pretty darn lucky. I have a dear friend, he was with me here about a month ago and he tells everybody, ―I was in a tent and the water was running right through the tent and I’m down here in Louisiana and it’s muggy and he’s in that hotel.‖ (19:19) Interviewer: ―What about chow?‖ Chow was good. Chow was so good, in some places that if we were in town, we would go back to camp to eat and then go back to town. On the other hand, in Nashville Tennessee, the food was so bad that we would go through the line and dump it out, we weren’t assigned, all we had to do was pick up cigarettes because we were waiting for assignment, and we would go buy our food at the PX. I think I found a reason for that and didn’t say anything at the time, but I watched as a guy took a pound bag of sugar and put it in the back of a private car and I got a hunch there might have been a little bit of hanky-panky going on because sugar was scarce. Interviewer: ―So how long was basic training at the hotel and the golf course and that area?‖ That lasted for two months and then we got shifted to a college training detachment and they had so many people in the ―funnel‖ we call it, that they decided to put us in college for twenty weeks, and twenty weeks was to equal a year of college. We had sixteen classes. I went to North Carolina State and the only thing that bothered me was Calculus. I worked really hard because I didn’t have any college and I trained myself all through my service, to get up a few minutes before reveille, I don’t know how I did it, but I did. I would get up a few minutes early and get a shower and get going before the other guys. I studied hard and I got only ten weeks because at the end of ten weeks they shipped us out, but that counted as a year of college. (20:54) Interviewer: ―During this period of time, basic training and as you went through this college, were you aware of what was going on in the outside world, were you able to read the newspaper and things like that?‖ Oh, very much so, very much so. We lived in the college dorms with two to a room, which there would usually be, we had good food, excellent teachers and we were ―GungHo‖, we took speech, history, everything we had in high school, but on a higher level and those grades counted for a half a year of college. (21:26) Interviewer: ―Was there an elimination process in this period? Because I know that later on there was a washout process.‖ Next you go to Nashville, Tennessee and now you go through the physicals and other tests, and all of a sudden they say, ―‖Sorry buddy, but you’ll make a good navigator.‖ Everybody wanted to be a pilot, or they would say, ―Sorry buddy, we just got too many and you’re going to be a bombardier.‖ That is what actually happened. You were sent there and then you were sent on to Montgomery, Alabama for another two months in the summertime, very warm, very muggy, and we had to run seven miles. I loved that because I was a good long distance runner. They had 204 guys and I would beat 200 one time and 201 sometimes. There was one little guy about 5’8‖, I call him little, and I couldn’t beat him and I’m still mad at him, but that was great because you sweat like a 6 �hog and then we had so much salt, you come back in and you empty your pockets and walk in the shower with your clothes on and rinse them out and hang them up and put them out on the line and put another fatigue suit on and go to class. That was classless mostly. (22:45) That was a great experience. You talked about the parade grounds. It was the 4th of July that year and the general said, ―Were going to have a parade here.‖ It rained and it rained and he put us our on the field with these brooms, sweeping water off of the field and we finally had our parade and there were other generals there etc. and I would say there were several thousand guys, but I can’t remember the exact number. I can still remember that we had to stand at complete attention and you weren’t supposed to move a whisker and a guy falls over here and a guy falls over there and you wouldn’t dare pick him up. Someone would come up from the rear and carry them out. That was discipline. (23:27) Interviewer: ―Fainting because of the heat?‖ Yes, but the thing is, they locked their knees. When you’re standing, never lock your knees. You got to have a little give there. Interviewer “You moved from a small farm, Grand Rapids was not nearly the size that it is today, just in terms of perspective, you were from a very, very small town, you’re in this area and now you’re in the south. Did you notice any difference being in the south as opposed to being where you grew up?‖ A town of 500 people and yes, I got on this bus, I think it was a spur of the moment deal and there was nobody up front. There were at least four and if my memory is right, there were five blacks in the rear of the bus, so I decide heck I’m going to try this system so, I go to the back and sit down and the bus driver says, ―Hey young man, officer sir, you in the uniform, come up here.‖ I said, ― I’m comfortable where I am‖, and he said, ― You sit up here.‖ I said, ―Look, I’m sitting here.‖ He said, ― I won’t move the bus until you come up here.‖ The people around me said, ―Sir he means it, you go up there, we got to get home.‖ That was my first experience because I didn’t—there were no blacks where I grew up. I had not seen blacks except when we went to Grand Rapids and very rarely even then. (24.51) Interviewer: ―Were there other experiences in the south, not necessarily with blacks, but just in terms of--the culture is different, they talk differently?‖ We found that charming, they have a different language, you might say. They had the USO dances, you know, and you get acquainted with the girls and that was part of the fun of it and if you were in the air corps, well, that was real good. Later on when you got your wings—oh man, that meant a lot to a girl. ―I want to marry a man who has silver wings‖ or something like that or a ―Man who has silver wings‖, there was a song something like that. Interviewer: ―Once you completed your training there in the south, where did you go from there?‖ Then I went to Georgia and I got basic training in a PT 17, which is an open cockpit, twowing, a great plane, that was so good that they said, ―If you get into trouble, get your hands off because it will fly itself ―, and it did. From there we went to a PT 13, which is 7 �more like a fighter plane and it had sliding glass in the cockpit and you were enclosed and it would go about 250 miles an hour, which was a big step up and then from there, I hoped to get into the fighter planes, everybody wanted to be a fighter pilot. I couldn’t, the said, ―You’re too tall.‖ They sent me to a twin-engine plane flying at Moody Field, Georgia and that field is still open today, by the way. When I graduated from there, I was in class 44C, which means A, B, C, and would be March. Then I had ten days to come home, strut around in my Lieutenant bars— Interviewer: ―Let’s for the family’s sake, and I know you’re a modest man, but this is the opportunity, OK—come home in your uniform to the farm, your mom and dad and everyone is there—Come on Don what was that like?‖ Oh, picture in the paper, you know—the first guy that had, in that area, ever become a pilot and this was big time and I called some of my old girl friends and had a date here and had a date there, in fact, one of them was a nurse at St. Mary’s Hospital and I came over to see her and I took her out to Ramona Park, they still had a roller coaster there and I think they still had a the steamer on Reeds Lake there that you could go out for a ride on etc. (27:11) Then I went back and now they sent me back to Montgomery, Alabama for training in a B-24 , which is a four-engine plane. Now, this is where you got into the more serious, I mean if you couldn’t handle that plane you got weeded out, but that was successful. While I was there, they took a bunch of us and they flew us up to Topeka, Kansas and they said, ―We want you to look at this B29‖, which was far bigger. That’s the one that dropped the Atomic Bomb on Japan and that was the main plane for bombing Japan during the war. They said, ―You can fly this as a co-pilot or you can go back and fly your B-24’s.‖ I said, ―I want to be a pilot, I want to be in charge.‖ We went back and continued with the B-24’s and from there they sent us to Lincoln, Nebraska where we picked up a crew, I didn’t know any of them, a nine man crew, and we went to Boise, Idaho to Owen Field, which is now the main airfield for Boise, Idaho. (28:14) Interviewer: ―Now, was this crew from all over the country?‖ See, we were in the so called eastern command, so I had two from New York, two from Pennsylvania, one from Detroit, one from Minneapolis, one from Chicago, and one from Indiana. Interviewer: ―You’re in charge of this group. You’re not only responsible for their discipline etc., but their lives?‖ Yes. Interviewer: ―What was your first impression of this group? I realize it is a long time ago, but what was your impression?‖ Well, some of them shaped-up real quick. I had one guy who was quiet, you never could quite figure him out, he was a loner, but he was just a gunner so, he got by. My co-pilot, he was a very—he was a better pilot than I was, but he didn’t want to be first pilot, what he wanted was ―Wine, women and song‖. That proved to be a problem so, I kind of broke him of that, he came in one day and we were practicing in Boise, Idaho and we are practicing as if we were in combat and you come into this room and you got 28 crews there and they’re all lined up in rows of ten, ten, ten, ten and it’s 5:00 AM and you’re 8 �supposed to stand-up and say ―All present and accounted for sir‖, and fortunately my initial is ―J‖ so I’m in the middle of the alphabet so, they get down to ―D‖ or ―E‖ and he’s not there. He’s not home from the night before and all of a sudden this barrel of whiskey goes right by and sits down next to me and I said, ―All present and accounted for sir‖. So, I decided, by the grace of God, that I got to break him of this so, he was a good pilot and we were flying number two in that particular formation and we have to be a little bit above and behind this guy, and were supposed to be out here where if you overshoot, you hit him. Well, I tucked it in and were flying with oxygen masks, this is combat flying supposedly, and I said, ―Bill you’re taking over‖, and he had to put his seat up and he had his oxygen mask on and he’d sweat and sweat and I’d look over at him and take mercy and I’d say ―Bill, I’ll take it‖ and would take over just long enough to get the sweat wiped off and then I’d say, ―Bill, it’s all yours‖, and I just wore him out and he didn’t say anything. The next morning he came in and he said, ―Jando‖, you win. (30:26) And that was the last time that happened. Interviewer ―Jando?‖ They couldn’t pronounce my name so they called me ―Jando‖. Interviewer: “It took me a long time to figure that one out myself.‖ We thought it came from the Alsace Lorraine, but were not sure, were still trying to trace it. Interviewer: ―Anytime during this period of time, you could have washed out, right?‖ Yea, at this point –yea, I didn’t realize it, but there were some pilots that washed out. I’ve got a friend who was a co-pilot, he is very close to me and he was in our group. He said to me that he lost two first pilots that washed out, which really surprised me because you’d have thought that by the time they got that far—but that happens. Interviewer: ―So, at this point in time, how aware of the war are you? Do you know if you’re going to Japan, do you know if you’re going to Europe? (31:17) We wanted to—I think inherently I wanted to go to Europe. Japan—first of all, I couldn’t swim very well. Secondly, Japan is long distances and Europe; you’re more familiar with that because of your background and studies. So, they ship us from there, Boise, Idaho to Topeka, Kansas and we got up there and they said, ―Were going to shoot you out of here in four days on a train bound for Newport News, but you’re going to get a four day pass. You’re not going to get a four-day pass, we’ll give you a one day pass and a three day pass, but don’t show the three day pass to anybody until it’s valid. The one day is for the first day.‖ Well, these guys—we didn’t know this and we thought about how we were going to get home, two guys got to go to New York, two guys got to go to Pennsylvania, one to Detroit, one to Chicago, Minneapolis—so, I called my sister and I said, ―I’m going to write a check for $400.00 and I’m going to give each one of these guys 50 bucks that don’t have money so they can go home. (32:19) The guys from New York had to actually go home, get home at night, spend the night with their family and get on the train the next day to get back, but it was home and we didn’t know if we were ever going to see home again. It was very well done and it was a great experience and I often wondered how they got by because if the M.P. on the train says, ―I want to see your 9 �pass‖, and with a one day pass he asked where you were going and the soldier said, ―I’m going to New York‖, ―On a one day pass, baloney.‖ From there we went to Newport News and then shipped over. (32:50) Interviewer: ―I want to go back to something you kind of ran right over. You said that you didn’t know if you were going to see home again. I think in terms of your crew, they probably thought those thoughts as well, but you have to be thinking of it even more so because you’re in charge of this. Was that something you were aware of, even at that young age?‖ That’s the responsibility of being an officer and especially being a pilot and I was lucky, I was—I wouldn’t say I was cocky, but I was sure. I had a great deal of confidence in myself, I had a great relationship with the lord and I just figured that if I did everything they taught me and use what God gave me, it was going to work out all right. There were times in combat when I began to wonder if he was trying us a little bit too much, but we did get back. (33:41) Interviewer: ―I wanted that point made, that there was an awareness on your part that your responsibility to these men and the fact that it wasn’t playing games, this was for real.‖ Well, that ran—if you were a leader, so you’re an officer, say you’re a Colonel or a General, the guys that really did the job; they bled almost when we bled, and we were a team. The guys in England got far more early, they were there earlier than we were in Italy, see we were in southern Italy and we would read the Stars and Stripes, everybody read that, Bill Mauldin was always in there, Ernie Pyle was always in there, I’ve got a few of those and I wish that I had kept every one, but you try to keep current and you think, ―Gosh they got the heck shot out of them.‖ (34:32) These are our buddies, and I wondered if any of them were guys from the group I went to school with. Interviewer: ―So you’re now on the brink of going into actual combat. Where did you go from there?‖ We went to southern Italy to Taranto, this is by boat and going over you zig zag going like this and going like that to avoid the submarines. It was beautiful; we didn’t have any storms or anything on the way over. The officers were allowed on deck and you get up there on deck and you weren’t allowed to have any lights and you can see the other boats over there and you keep looking and wondering if that’s a periscope or is that a submarine. We got there and it took us 13 days, which was an awful long time. (35:14) Interviewer: ―Had you ever been on a ship that size before?‖ No, I never had been on a ship before. Interviewer: ―Did you get sick?‖ No, by the grace of god I didn’t get sick. So, we pulled into Taranto and Italy is like a boot and Taranto is way down here in the arch and it’s Taranto as I recall and there are half a dozen boats as I remember all side by side and we’re talking back and forth and we’re there about three or four hours and the word is that this is just a stop over and we 10 �will go on to India and we’re going to be flying the ―Hump‖. All of a sudden the word came to grab your bags and get off. We got off, walked about a quarter of a mile and got on a train, this was a cattle car train, open slats on the sides between the wood and straw in there to sleep on. We got in there and about dark, I would say we weren’t in there more than a half hour, it was a car close to being a cattle car and to the old cars from WWI and then the train moved. (36:16) I woke up and there are an awful lot of unhappy people outside and I didn’t like some of the language, I didn’t know what it was, it was Italian. So, my friend Frank Batami was from Lodi, New Jersey, right across from New York City and I said, ―Frank, you speak Italian, what’s going on?‖ He said, ―Don, sir, somebody stole the signal lantern and we ain’t moving until they get it back.‖ I said, ―Oh gosh, put your shoes on, put your shoes on.‖ So, we jumped out and had to jump about that far to the ground and we went to the first car and knocked on it and said, ―Hey guys, somebody stole the signal lantern and if we get it back with no problems, we won’t even care, but if we have to come in after it‖---nothing happened. (37:00) We went to the second one and then the third and the door opened about eight inches and a hand came out, I took the lantern, the door closed and I gave it to the signal man and we went. If not, we might be there yet. Interviewer: ―This was at night?‖ Yes, this was at night. It was 1:30 or 2:00 in the morning. Interviewer: “Where did you arrive at?‖ Went to Bari, which was the headquarters for the 15th Air Force, it is a coastal city. Italy has a thorn over on the side and Bari is right there. Rome is way up here and we are directly across from Naples. And that was the headquarters and we were fill-in troops, we didn’t have our own complement so, some went to this field and some went to another. Whoever lost the most crews, that’s where we went. We went to the 454th, which was near Charignola and the first night they didn’t have a place for us to sleep, but they said they had no tents set up for us, but they had a new dining room cafeteria, the cement was a little green, but they said it would be all right. We put several layers of blanket down and slept on green cement. We’re all 18, 20-22 and I never got up so stiff in my life as I did from sleeping on that green cement. (38:21) the food was good there, but it was very limited. We had bread, always-good bread and that was good, lots of canned peaches and Spam, Spam, Spam. Never got any fresh meat, never got any fresh milk, but we survived. Interviewer: ―Give us an idea what this area was like. Did you have barracks there, was it a town, what was it?‖ A town of tents and there was a big old farmhouse and apparently it was sort of like a southern plantation. This farmhouse was so big that you could get 200 men in the basement for briefing, so that’s where we—they had a big map on the wall. This is where we’re going to bomb and this is the time and then you get this confidential information and they say, ―You got to be here at this time, there at that time and if you can’t see it, you go over to this alternate target‖ and that sort of thing. (39:08) 11 �Interviewer: ―Walk me through the routine. What time do you get up? You go to the farmhouse, you get the briefing, who is at the briefing.‖ My memory is that we had to be at the briefing by 5:30, but you are supposed to have a meal before that and either walk over there or if you were late, you might even get a Jeep ride. You get out to your plane, check everything, get your parachutes, in fact we got parachutes before we went to the plane, and we would ride ten guys on a Jeep, plus the driver. It was crazy. You’re hanging on. You’re standing in front of the driver or anywhere at all and then you would get everything together and eventually they would say, ―Start your engines‖ and you test each one and then you’re all set and you’re talking back and forth. You have a check list two pages long, you have to check every engine for this, this and this and now you release the brakes on top of your pedals and you taxi out. You get in a long line of 28 and there is a man standing there in a Jeep and he’s got a flare gun, he checks the time, 7:42, and he shoots the flare and the first guy takes off and he waits so many seconds, I think it was a full minute and the second guy takes off. You have to circle and circle until everybody catches up because you want to fly in formation for a pattern bombing because you are not each one using your Norden bomb sight, you got two or three and you drop the formation based on the first plane. (40:58) You have to go round and round and then you also want to be in formation because each plane had 10 guns and if we got 28 ships in one group, that means we got 280 guns. In that way if you get attacked you got a real chance, but if you’re all alone, a fighter has much more maneuverability and your chances are not so good. (41:19) Interviewer: ―What was your first flight like?‖ They couldn’t find me and this guy shakes me and we were in a new tent. It was the 5th of December and we had been there since the 6th of November and it was a brand new tent and they didn’t know where I was and I was right close to the headquarters and this guy shakes me and on a first flight, you don’t fly with your crew, you fly with an experienced crew. So I’m the only guy and he shakes me up and he said, ―You only got 20 minutes and you got to be there or it’s a court martial offense, grab your clothes.‖ So I’m putting my clothes on in the Jeep and we get down there and of course I had no breakfast and I get in the first briefing with the crew, don’t know the crew and I sat down next to Al Faxton, who was a veteran of a pilot. I didn’t know this until many years later that Al had gotten into trouble. He got drunk and had stolen a Jeep, not a good thing for an officer. I understand that they put him in jail for a while and so he was on the bad list and so we got the worst plane that was there. (42:16) Everything is going fine I’m sitting over in the co-pilot’s seat and he is in the pilots seat and he said, ―Everything Ok?‖ and I said, ―Yup.‖ ―Ok, let’s go‖, and he releases the brakes and he falls over backwards. This was this old formed metal it wasn’t steel. In other words, it was formed and it broke off in the front. This was an old plane and he is lying back like this and the crew chief and the radio operator and I think maybe we won’t fly. No, he called to see if there were any machine gun boxes on the plane. They had about a half dozen and he told them to bring them up to the front. So, they moved his seat forward and put the boxes behind him and pushed the seat back. He said, ―Ok, let’s go.‖ If we had gotten shot up, we had no way of getting out. Anyway, we took off and were flying ―tail end Charlie‖, last place, the worst place and were going to Poland, the longest flight we ever made, so when you go that far you worry about gas and the last guy has the most amount of adjusting to do 12 �because the lead guy, he doesn’t make any adjustment and the next guy makes a little adjustment and the next a little more etc. and you got seven more over here and seven more over there and some down below and the further you are back the more jockeying you have to do. When we came off the target two guys went to Russia because they didn’t have enough gas. (43:42) Interviewer: ―Was that an ultimate target?‖ Well, no we went to Russia for safety. Russia was on our side. We were going to Auschwitz in Poland, which was within three miles of the concentration camp, the worst concentration camp, where they killed millions. We were told and I remember that yet, ―Don’t hit the camp, if you can’t see your target, which was the railroads yards, don’t drop.‖ Well, it was clear so we could see the target. After the war a lot of people thought it would have been better if we had bombed Auschwitz. We would have killed people, but we would have saved a lot of lives because we could put those ovens out of commission and we would have saved lives. (44:16) Interviewer: ―So, you’re ―tail end Charlie‖ and this is your first flight, not with your crew, what was the experience?‖ A lot of flak and I have never been sick on an airplane, but would you believe this was the only time and I always feel this is a sign of weakness, but not having had any breakfast and we’re on a bomb run and you have to keep it level and I have to ―Pitch my cookies‖ and I have my oxygen mask on and I take it off and I have a steel helmet on and I hold it like this and the only thing that would come up was green you know and that is why I didn’t wear it anymore after that, but anyway the pilot, he was very understanding and that is the only time I ever got sick and it was on my first mission. I think, ―Is this a sign of cowardliness or what?‖ But, as I remember, not having any breakfast might have had something to do with it. I just put the helmet aside and put the oxygen mask back on and went we got home. Some planes just didn’t make it back because they ran out of gas. (45:20) I don’t know how many we lost over the target, but I don’t recall that we lost very many that day. That wouldn’t be a prime area for the Germans to defend. They wanted to defend their big factories and their gas making facilities. (45:38) Interviewer: “What was the experience of flak on that mission? You had never experienced it before had you?‖ No. Interviewer: ―You had been told about it, you knew about it, how was the actual experience?‖ Just, people think about it. They’re shooting at you and they want to hit you, not exactly. As an example, flak was a shell, if I recall, that is about 3 ½‖ in diameter and it didn’t burst on contact, it burst at a certain height. They were all the time trying to figure out, ―Let’s see, they are 20,000 feet, they are 22,300 ft., and they crank that into their guns and into the shell and the shell goes up to that height and breaks, it explodes and if you are within a couple of hundred feet of it, I don’t know just how far, but a couple hundred feet you get bounced. The worst I remember was coming back with 85 holes in my plane, but a lot of guys had a lot more than that and if the plane, Bill, I can’t remember his last name, but I still remember, it was a day I didn’t fly and he said, ―Don, you have 13 �to come down to the flight line.‖ I had just got back and I said, ―Fine‖. We walk down the flight line, we go through the bomb bay, go up on the flight deck and here is his seat right there and right here within 8 inches of the back of his seat you could look down and see the ground right there. There was a hole about this big and then he said, ―Look up‖ and there’s a round hole right above it. Now this shell, we’re going over 250 miles an hour and the shell, gosh, who knows how fast that’s going, but it missed him by a tenth of a second. (47:13) It didn’t burst because it burst at a certain altitude. By the way, most of them were black, I don’t know why, but every now and then they send up a red one or a white one. Maybe that was for celebration or something. Interviewer: ―On that first flight, it is your first experience in combat, flak is going off, did you see other planes getting hit and going down?‖ I didn’t see anybody going down on that first run, that happened later on I saw a lot of them go down, but not on that one. You know, on average we might have lost 10% , but there might be some flights where you would lose 30% and early in the was they even lost more. By the time I was there, the good part of it was that we had fighter protection. They had taken the P-51, the P-38’s in particular and put extra gas on them so they could fly with us and they would go with us almost to the target and then they would wait and when we got off target. Our flight guys were the Tuskegee Airmen and these were black guys, bright guys, great pilots and they had a wonderful record, but this is segregation time and there were many people in the armed forces who said, ―We don’t want them in the armed forces, they’re just going to screw up. They can’t handle it. They don’t have the brains.‖ That is pure malarkey. These guys recognized, I forget how many hundred distinguished flying crosses they got, they got all sorts of records and while they protected our bomb groups, we never lost a bomber, they were that good. (48:53) Interviewer: ―when did they come into the picture? You went on this first raid and then there were other raids that you went on.‖ Ya, they were with us by the time I started the first raid. I don’t know whether they went all the way to Auschwitz with us or not, I can’t recall that, but if we would go to Vienna or Munich or Bratislava, Czechoslovakia or Ploesti, they would be with us and we would get within the bomb run and the last two minutes you got to be on level and that’s where the flak is. They would leave and after, they would come back. (49:32) Interviewer “So, standard operating procedure was not only because of the gasoline on the fighter, but their job was to escort you to the target and then you were on your own?‖ Yes, and then when you came off, they were back to escort you back again. Interviewer: ―Obviously the German fighters aren’t going to go into the flak either. They are going to be hitting you either before or after.‖ Right. They’re sitting up there waiting for us and they were particularly looking for the stragglers and even if you lost an engine, you tried to stay in formation because you had more safety. The guys that got shot down at that time in the war were mostly the guys that had a problem that they couldn’t keep up. (50:07) 14 �Interviewer: ―Over the next few missions, were there any ones in particular that you recall? Were there any experiences that you felt were new to you?‖ We went to the St. Valentines Tank Works and we had a new guy, you know, what do you call him? The officer who explains what you’re going to do, I forget the name for that. He’s up there and he is a Captain and I don’t know what his background was, but he said, ―Guys it’s a milk run.‖ And we sigh and think a milk run, no problem and he said, ―Here’s Linz, here’s Steiger and here’s Graz ―, as I remember. He said, ― Here is the St. Valentine Tank Works right in the middle‖, now, the St. Valentines Tank Works has no defense, no guns, so if you come in on this level, I think it was 40 or 50 degrees, you come in like this and you drop your bombs and you turn over here and you come out with say 140 degrees going this way, they can’t touch you because you are just out of range. Wow, we think this is pretty good. We go t up there and I tell you, that was one of the worst missions I ever saw. Three guys ahead of me got shot down and what happened, the mistake he made was this—he thought we were out of range of these guns, but forgot that those guns were not at sea level, he was figuring everything was at sea level and they were up here on the side of a mountain, 5-10 thousand feet high. They just peppered us. That was a bad one and another one was—we got a new guy from the United States who was a Major (51:41) and he had been training in the United States and a good pilot I was told and he was leading his first flight and he wanted to become a Colonel and so he had to lead. We’re going after a bridge up in Hungary as I remember that was April of 1945 and we’re carrying 3,000 lb. Bombs, just one per plane, normally we would have several 100 lb bombs., a few 250’s, several 500 lb. Bombs, but we were trying to get this bridge in the mountains, this railroad bridge and every plane had one 3,000 lb. bomb and they said, ―If we can pattern bomb, all we have to do is break off one part of that bridge, but don’t drop your bomb in the Adriatic if you can’t drop them on target. We haven’t got anymore and we have to keep these.‖ So, we get up there and I’m flying number 3, number 4, pardon me. You have three planes here. This is the lead plane and these two are on his wings. There’s three more like that and I’m number 4 down here, so I got a guy on the wing and there’s a guy below me. I’m in Charlie box over here. (52:45) The target is just behind this wall of weather, were out and everything is clear and we’re going higher and higher and it’s like somebody said, ―Hey, here is a wall and all you have to do is get up here and it’s all ok.‖ But, it was over 25,000 feet and we couldn’t be sure so, were weaving like this and when you get at 24,000 feet and you’re hanging on your ―Pops‖ as they call it. You just don’t have enough thickness of the air, I guess density is what they call it, and at the last minute he turns off. He didn’t turn off in time. We’re in Charlie box and we go into the clouds. Now, you talk about praying, as we go into the clouds, he also dropped his nose and we did too so, we’re going and going down and I’m thinking, ―What should I do? There’s a guy on each wing below me, there’s three up there, I better not do anything.‖ I didn’t do anything, I didn’t do anything and finally I said, ―Lord, I’m going to count to ten, I got to pull this thing out—we’re going over 450 miles an hour and we’re not supposed to go that fast.‖ At the count of 9, we broke out. This guy’s gone, this guy’s gone that guy down there’s gone the guy back there’s gone, but this guy is right there and if we would have pulled up we would have hit him so, you talk about prayer. Again, that’s part of the training, you learn to make decisions and you never know—you have to know how to parachute, you don’t practice that, but you have it in your mind. (54:25) 15 �Interviewer: ―Was there a sense the training was so accurate, the training was so intense and you had this definite focus, that it almost became 2nd nature, there were these things that you did.‖ It was but, it was also fear and we have to admit and it will be in the annals. You see, the Norden bomb sight, that was the bombardier and at that particular time everything was connected to that and he’s controlling the plane and he’s the lead one and if he gets shot down, his right hand man is doing the same thing. So, everybody’s flying off of him, ok? Now, if the flak is getting real bad and he gets afraid, all he has to do is turn the bombsight forward and when it hits a certain spot the bombs drop. Sometimes guys got afraid and dropped their bombs here instead of there. (55:23) That could happen. I was afraid many times and I wanted to get the heck out of there, but I said, ―No, I accepted this, I signed up and I was in for the duration.‖ Interviewer: “There did come an incident though that was far more dramatic than any of the other experiences.‖ Well, this is more of personal experience. We’re going to Mussbayrbaum oil refinery, which is right on the edge of Vienna, by the way, I want to bring this out into today’s world, Hitler produced approximately 90% of their petroleum from coal and they did that at Mussbayrbaum and what was the one over in Hungary? It will come to me in just a minute. They defended these very well so, we Re going over the Mussbayrbaum oil refinery and this is the first time I went over there, I went back twice getting shot bad and they get our wing tanks. We got sealing wing tanks normally, but we were losing gas, so we come down off Vienna, off Mussbayrbaum and we go over to Yugoslavia and we head down the Adriatic Sea, just off Yugoslavia. They wouldn’t shoot at us there because if you go over land, there might be a gun in there. We’re watching this gas and pretty soon oh, oh, we Re trying to make it to a landing strip with a 3,000 ft. runway, which is too short for our plane, but it was an emergency and maybe if we could get in there, we could put the parachutes out on each side and stop the plane before it hit the mountain at the end of the runway. (57:02) I’m glad we didn’t get there because when I did get there the following day, I found two B-24’s plastered against that wall up there, that mountain. So, by the grace of God, we ran out of gas 13 miles short and naturally I’m saying, ―Let’s get back over to land because we can’t get down there.‖ I turned left toward Yugoslavia and I could see a few mountains there and I know the Isle of Alavar was right there—Alavar is about 22 miles long and 2-4 miles wide and the peaks are up to, they say, 24-28 hundred, something like that, but there was a cloud cover almost solid, not quite solid, so we could see a few mountains so at 17,500, I told the guys to start bailing out. Well, it’s my job to hold the plane, so when I left the cockpit we’re at 7,500 feet and the ten crew member I had, they all drifted over the island. I didn’t have enough time, there was a strong North wind more by the grace of God than anything else. There was one other problem. In the plane, and this almost cost me my life, here is the cockpit and there’s a red button right down there and the only purpose of that red button is to give an S.O.S. if you are in dire need and we had a radio tower in southern Italy and we had one in Yugoslavia, or somewhere in our territory, and we had one close to the German lines and they would intersect like this, there is a name for it, but it escapes me, and they would say, ―We say 16 �it’s there and we say it’s there and he says it’s there.‖ They would find the spot and send out rescue people. (58:47) That day I had a strange, it wasn’t my regular pilot and that was his job and he didn’t push the button, so nobody looked for us. I bail out and I can’t make it to land, so I land in the water, get rid of my parachute, open my sea drop marker, which makes an area of about 50 –100 ft. in diameter, which is yellow, so if you are flying over you look and see it. Interviewer: ―Now, looking back for just a minute. What about your crew?‖ They all went out before me and they all drifted. Interviewer: ―You gave the order for them to go, so they went out and you came out last?‖ I came out last. Forty years later when I joined my association, which I didn’t even know existed, my name was listed in the magazine and I got a phone call from a guy and he said, ―I’ve been looking for you for over forty years and I only flew with you one time. You don’t know me, but I was your substitute bombardier and I only flew with you one time and then you bailed out. I’m not only looking for you, but I’m looking for the nose gunner because I want to see if the implant of my boot is still where I put it because he hesitated when he was supposed to bail out.‖ (60:00) Those guys fortunately all lit on land. One had an injured and the rest of them had only minor things. My navigator was a very religious guy and the only married man on the crew and he hit his head when he was going through an apple tree and he said, ―I can remember this, I was at attention on my back, with my hands folded in prayer and I’m looking up there’s this parachute up here and it’s waving in the wind and I don’t know if I’m in heaven or on earth.‖ Anyway, I lit in the water got rid of my parachute and I opened my ―Mae West‖, that was what we called the life jacket, and it came around your collar like this and around the front like this. It kept you back to keep your mouth out of the water and if you swam, you had to go like this. Then realizing that as I got soaked with water, I got heavier and heavier, I threw away my gun, threw away my knife, threw away my boots, threw away my gloves, threw away my hat or helmet or cap and started to swim. (01:01:10) It’s the 31st of January, I’m a quarter of a mile from shore and I’m not a good swimmer and I swam and swam and swam and yelled and yelled and prayed and prayed and swam and now I’m getting blue. Interviewer: ―It was cold?‖ The temperature is below 45 degrees. That’s the average temperature. They say it’s probably around 44 or 43. Pretty soon you can’t move anymore and so I’m still praying and still yelling as long as I could and finally I got to the point where I couldn’t talk and I look up and here comes a Spitfire, one of the best planes ever made. This is a British plane and he sees that air sea dye marker so, he comes down like this. Since we were all gone about an hour late, they finally sent people out looking for us. (01:02:03) He comes down and he goes back up like that and I said, ―Too bad, you could have been a hero—wait—if you drop a raft, I can’t get in it, you can’t land, you could have been a hero. Too bad.‖ He turns around and he comes back down and I said, ―Pull out, pull out you damn fool, you’ll kill yourself.‖ He goes up and he goes off. He sees something that I don’t see and as he disappears, somebody grabs me on the back and here was this fishing boat with four men in it, three of them were—one guy could barely stand, as a 17 �matter of fact he was in his 80’s, and only one guy under 65 and a 14 year old boy. My crew are bailing out over here and here is Havar and they walk this way, they knew we were in safe territory, I was over here on this side, so these guys were from this town of Storygrad and there getting wood and they debated whether they should help me. The week before, somebody had been out in the water fishing and a German patrol plane came down and riddled it and four guys got injured. So they are debating if they should go or not. The other problem was that the German patrol planes usually came down about 3:00 and they hadn’t been there and it is now (01:03:15) and is he late or isn’t he coming? They supposedly, after debating, the 14 year old boy said, ―We got to, we got to.‖ They prayed, I believe in prayer, but I’m glad they didn’t pray too long, and they started rowing. They say I was in the water for an hour. It’s been debated whether you can live that long in the water, but then more recently I have talked to doctors who said that if you’re young, in good health and have a desire to live, you can survive. (01:03:54) So they grabbed me at the last minute, pulled me in the boat, took all my clothes off except my shorts and this 14 year old boy had two pair of leggings, I call them, that came down to the knee and he took one of those off and put those on me, somebody gave me a shirt, somebody gave me a sweater and they start rowing. I’m sitting on the boat and I can’t talk and I can’t do much of anything and they row for a while and I’m beginning to feel a little bit and I smile a little bit—It’s funny, I don’t know why I did this, but I said ―Americanski‖, why I put the ski on it, that’s in Poland that is 500 miles away, maybe 800 , but later on, in fact last year, I met a guy who had a similar experience and he said, ―The first thing I said to the Yugoslav’s was ―Americanski‖.‖ So, I guess that’s us American. Anyway, they said, ―Ya, ya.‖ I said, ―Germans‖ and they said, ―That way.‖ They couldn’t speak any English. (01:04:51) They kept rowing and this kid kept massaging my legs and we got back to shore and they took me down—this town is built—it’s about three miles to this point down here and this town is built right around that little dot there and it’s an old town and this island was settled before the time of Christ. It’s all rock, beautiful water, good fishing, but all rock and very difficult to raise any food. They carried me like a guy who’s got a bad leg from football and they carried me down the street. We go upstairs and this is a building like you might see in any small town. Go to Lowell for example, the first floor of this building has got—it’s a retail store—tall 16-18 feet high and there’s going to be stairs outside where you can go up. The shopkeeper lives up above. So, they take me up there and they get me into a kitchen, which is surprisingly large. I would say maybe 14x14, which is large for a kitchen you come up the stairs and you go just like this there’s the kitchen and in that corner, in the opposite corner, is a stove just like we had back on the farm. It was a cook stove and you put the wood in here and the ashes are down here and here’s the oven and the smoke and the fire go around the it heats the reservoir of water over here and then goes on up. (01:06:16) So, they took me over there, opened the oven door and put a couple of sticks of wood in and set me on a chair and put my feet in the oven. Now, I don’t believe in cooking your legs, but that felt pretty good at the time and they really stuffed this stove. Then they took off everything I had up here and they started rubbing me. Then George arrived and George and I became good friends real quick. George was 75 years of age and I’m 21 and he had lived in St. Louis, Missouri from 1900 to 1925, so he spoke English very well. George sits where you are, I got my feet in the oven and everybody in town had to see me. This is the first American you 18 �know, so everybody clump, clump, clump up that stairs and they stand over there and they talk to George and George to me and back and forth , so were getting better and I’m feeling a little better and George says. ― You got a phone call.‖ ―Phone call? You got telephones?‖ ― Ya.‖ ―Where is it?‖ ―Down the street, can you walk?‖ ―I don’t know, but let’s try.‖ So, we go down there and the phone is on the side of a building and this is the part you speak in and the other part is on a rope and you put it up here, it’s the old stuff, so I said, ―Hello‖, and this voice said, ―Jando, oh it’s good to hear your voice.‖ And I said, ―Al how are ya‖, he was my navigator, and he said, ―Fine, how many you got with ya?‖ I said, ―I’m alone, how many you got?‖ and he said, ―Nine with me.‖ And I said, ―Wait a minute, nine and one is ten, what happened? Who’s missing?‖ He said, ― Batami.‖ ―Oh god‖ I said, ―How many parachutes did you count?‖ He said, ―I counted nine beside myself.‖ I said, ―that’s what I counted, do you suppose his parachute didn’t open?‖ (01:08:03) So, he said, ―look we got a Brit here and he’s got a stripped down American PT boat and he’s going to take us around in the morning. We’re going to come around and pick you up and we’re going to go back around the island and then we’re going to go down to Vis, where we wanted to be anyway, and then we’ll fly back to Italy.‖ But, he said, ―I guess all we can do is pray, are guys are ok, banged up a little bit.‖ So, I said, ―We have to pray.‖ So, we go back upstairs and George is talking and I’m still sitting by the fire and George says, ―Don,‖ by the way, they fed me something that looked like a Lima Bean, it was about that big and it was purple. I hated them, but when you’re in Rome you know—I ate it and they did have a little brown bread and they had chicory for coffee. That’s a green weed that has almost no leaves on it. That’s what their coffee was. And so I ate and their people kept coming up and finally George says, ―Don, this is very important. You are our guest and I want you to listen to me, you are our guest and we’re going to make you a gift. To my knowledge it’s the only one on the island and you must accept it. Do you understand me?‖ Ok. I trusted him. So, a man steps out of the line over here and he comes up and he’s got his hands like this. Just pretend you never heard this story. It’s the only one on the island, it’s the 31st of January 1945, and these people have known nothing but war since 1938, what’s in his hands? A thousand dollars if you guess it. He had a can of Spam. Of all the things that I didn’t want—I hate Spam. I had Spam for breakfast that morning; I had Spam the night before and the day before I didn’t fly and as I remember we had Spam for lunch. That was a part of our regular meal, we never had any fresh meat. We had a place to eat and a place to sleep, which wasn’t true of a lot of guys who were on the ground. 10:13 Anyway, I ate Spam. Now they want to have a drink and I didn’t drink in those days and I said, ―I’m sorry, I don’t drink.‖ Then he said, ―Oh, I got some good news, your man has been found and he is ok.‖ Well, Batami thought we were above the German lines and as he hid out it got colder and colder and there was a little snow on the ground, but not much and he got to thinking we were above the German lines and then he got to thinking, ‖Earlier in the evening I heard some of our guys laughing, so if they’re laughing it must be ok.‖ So, he walks into town and they call over etc. Now George says, ―You got to have a drink.‖ And I said, ―Ok.‖ So they gave us little glasses like this you know and 6 or 8 men over here by the wall and they line up everybody and they put this white lightning in there. I had never drank before, they had beer back on the farm as a kid, but I just decided in the service that was one thing I didn’t need to do. (01:11:05) So, now we have a toast to the three leaders of the free world. I asked the high school kids this and I 19 �laugh at how few of them can figure it out I say free world because if I just say world, some of them will say Hitler and we’re not going to toast Hitler. So, we would say, ―To Churchill, to Stalin, to Roosevelt.‖ They would leave and more guys would come in and we would do it again. ―To Roosevelt, Stalin, Churchill.‖ It was funny; I would love to have a picture of that. We were really excited I mean we were boisterous. ―To Churchill, to Roosevelt, to Stalin.‖ Finally I got to thinking, ―You know I’m probably the only American they have ever seen so, I can’t be a fool.‖ So, I sipped the stuff instead of drinking it and finally I said to George, ―I’m tired.‖ And George said, ―Ok.‖ I don’t think I was tired, I think I just wanted to get away. (01:12:05) Interviewer: ―How many shots did you have?‖ Oh gosh, I don’t know, I don’t know. I felt that we were warm on the inside I can remember that part. I would imagine it was pear juice or something like that. It was powerful. They put me to bed and they put me on a tick mattress and most people don’t know what a tick mattress is, but you take two pieces of canvas and you stitch them together all the way around and you leave one side open and you put rope through that and you stuff it with straw and you sleep on it. When the straw gets all matted down, you throw that away and put more straw in it. Then they gave me a cover and I swear it was that thick and it felt so good. (01:12:41) The next morning I had breakfast and about 10:00 the other guys came over there. I have some pictures of us on this ship that I should have brought along. We’re waving to everybody as we leave. They took us to this Brit, who later on became a good friend, and he came to America and we were good friends until his death about five years ago. We went around the island, down the beach, got on a C-47, flew back to Italy, had to do through a check at the hospital and five days later we are back over Germany. I figure the logic behind that was to get you back over that before you lose your cool. Interviewer: ―Did you have very many missions after that?‖ That was mission number five and from then on I flew with my own crew. I felt more comfortable then because I knew the men and I had a total of 23, so I had 18 more missions. We flew northern Italy, northern Yugoslavia, Bratislava, Czechoslovakia Munich, Linz as I remember, Steiger, St. Valentines, Vienna a couple three times, Hungary that one time we couldn’t drop the bomb that way that time. We couldn’t see the target. We had to carry that bomb home. (01:14:01) That was the difference, usually when you land you’re empty and you got little or no gas left, your bomb load is gone so you know how to land because that is the way you have been landing this plane all along, but if you got a heavy bomb load in there and you come in I thought, ―Boy you got to bring this thing in low‖, and I almost greased it. I think I was within two feet of the runway when I pulled the throttle back and it really hit hard. It wasn’t my fault, it was just that—and of course those bombs, just for the record, when we took off those bombs were not activated and when we landed they weren’t activated. What you did was—they had a little propeller in the front and they had a little wire through them so it couldn’t turn and as long as that wire was in there and you crashed, we had plenty of planes that crashed, the bomb wouldn’t burst unless it broke up on the ground. (01:14:51) So, when you got ready to drop them you had that wire out and if you 20 �brought them back, you had the wire back in, but just the idea that it’s back there is not the most comforting thought though. Interviewer: ―Give me an idea of—I’m not, I hope I’m not being callous here, you get up in the morning to go on another mission, you’ve got a crew of people at you’re responsible for, you know you’re going into danger—first mission, second mission you have to bail out at one point and after that you still have many missions to go. Does it become ritual? Does it become rote? Or is it that you are constantly on, are you worried about things or are you on automatic pilot? I’m trying to get a sense of what the experiences of going one mission and then another mission and another mission, it’s not like you got an end in sight, you’re going on these missions and people are being shot down.‖ Our objective was to get 35 missions in and whatever guy got 35, we celebrated and he could go home. Of course that’s what we were all hoping for, but then as the war went on we had more and more guys and more and more planes. We would put up the 15th Air Force on an all out day about 1500 planes. Normally it was about 1,000 and so you hoped that you would get your 35 in, but as the war went on and after our troops made the landing, they did that after we got over there, on the beaches of Normandy, but we’re fighting and it looks like we’re going to win, so we just said, ―Will we get done or not?‖ I think the test was near the target, you remained pretty well relaxed, you weren’t allowed to talk to one plane or another, you could talk within the plane and you had what we call an oxygen check about every ten minutes. (01:16:55) The problem was, you had to have oxygen. These planes were not pressurized and the way we kept our warmth is we had electric gloves and pants and jacket and they hooked that into the plane. We also had to have oxygen because we’re flying, you know, 22-24 thousand feet, so if you got disconnected from the oxygen , you could easily pass out and in the time I was there, I can only remember a couple that died that way. That was the idea of the oxygen check, you’re supposed to do it every so many minutes. (01:17:32) It wasn’t my responsibility, it was one of the crew members and if somebody didn’t do it and the guy was without oxygen long enough, that was it. Interviewer: ―So really, from my understanding is that you had enough routine things that had to be done before you got to target, but once you got to the target, you didn’t have control anymore? You were going to be shot at, you had control, but not the same kind of control you had getting up there?‖ You got control, you want to stay with your lead plane, you stay close and you don’t do any maneuvering at all as you get near the target. Later on as you are coming back home you might move out and you don’t have to be so careful, but the closer you get to the target, that’s where the stress is and a lot of prayers and when you saw a guy go down the first thing you do is get on the intercom and shout, ―Count the parachutes, count the parachutes.‖ You hope for ten and you didn’t always see ten. The problem with getting shot down is that say the plane loses a wing and starts into a spin, the chances of getting out are almost nil because it forces you up against the wall of the plane, so you prayed that you wouldn’t get into a gyro like that and have to go down with it. (01:18:56) If you bailed out you had a pretty good chance—I talked to two guys that bailed out, one broke his ankle, but he could still walk and they come down from the mountain in Germany and get a farmer and the farmer tells them to follow him into town and they 21 �near the town and here comes out a policeman and he tells them to kneel down and he puts his gun to their head like this and he pulls the trigger and it goes ―click, click‖ and he looks at it , points it in the air and ―Bang‖, and then the farmer says, ―Nix, nix.‖ You’re not supposed to kill an innocent—we’re enemies and he was a prisoner, but you’re not supposed to kill a prisoner. That was a guy that I knew, but I found this out long after the war. (01:19:46) The worst part when you bailed out was the fear that you would get shot from the ground or sometimes by a fighter plane. Last fall we had out annual reunion and we had about 150 guys there, this was of the bomb group and I had them sign in as a testimonial to the Tuskegee Airmen. I said, ―If you want to leave a message, I would like to know your name, what you remember and your message.‖ One guy said, ―Thanks for saving my life twice.‖ One guy said, ―thanks for saving my life, they were going to shoot me because I was in a parachute coming down in Austria and the German Messerschmitt was after me and you chased him off.‖ Messages like that. Interviewer: ‖I read every one of them because you gave me a copy. It was very moving.‖ That’s right, I gave you a copy. I wish I had thought of that, it should have been done 60 years ago. There is still the problem of racial. When we got out of the war we didn’t know any blacks. These guys saved out lives, but we weren’t supposed to mingle with them. Ridiculous. (01:20:55) Interviewer: ―To touch upon that, were you aware of, within your group, not just your crew, the group of people that you were around, initially there was a shift that went from, they didn’t want the Tuskegee airmen in there because they didn’t think they were competent, to the point that they were being asked to be on missions. Were you aware of that?‖ No, we were not aware of that, but it became apparent. We heard a little bit, but they kept those things quiet. I only know of one guy who met the Tuskegee Airmen before he went overseas and he was in Montgomery Alabama and he said that he knew the Chaplain real well and the chaplain took him down there and he met a few guys. He is the only man in all of my life—then I know of another guy who met one overseas, probably in town, but these guys, their bases weren’t near ours. They could be much closer up north because they didn’t have to fly as far. They didn’t have to get up when we did. We had to get things formulated and they just had to take off and fly. (01:21:58) they were very dedicated guys and I’ll tell ya, they had ―Red Tails‖ P51’s, a single engine plane, I think and most people think was the best fighter plane the U.S. had and they had red tails. That’s what they were distinguished by and they did one heck of a job. Interviewer: ―I think it’s commendable that you’ve made an effort to not only contact them, but you’re now a member of the Tuskegee Association.‖ Well, that came about; I have to tell you about it. I met one of them about six years ago and we became friends, he lives in Detroit, and I said, ―Dick, how many missions did you make?‖ He said, ―Eighteen and a half.‖ I Said, ― What do you mean eighteen and a half?‖ He said, ―I didn’t get back from the last one.‖ I said, ―Were you a P.O.W.?‖ He said, ―Yes, I remember waking up in this plowed field, I bailed out at low altitude. I was strafing in southern France and I had a broken leg and I’m lying in this muddy field that 22 �had been plowed and that helped. They healed my leg and they put me in prison.‖ I said, ―How many people were in that?‖ He said, ―Over ten thousand. Airmen, almost all of them were Airmen.‖ I said, ―How many were black?‖ He said, ―Seven.‖ I said, ―Only seven? How did your American officers treat you in the P.O.W. camp?‖ He didn’t answer me right away and then he said, ―Let’s put it this way, the German guards treated us better than our own fellow officers.‖ You can almost cry at that because these guys were risking their lives just like we were. (01:23:43) As I got to know these people and I went to a couple of their dinners down in Detroit, they are different than our group. We either charge no dues or charge $10.00 just to get the bulletins. They charge $85.00 a year. I said, ―What do you do with the money?‖ He said, ―Well, we have a program out at the Detroit city airport. We have four training planes and if a kid wants to learn to fly, we teach him to fly. We sponsor ROTC in the Detroit high schools because our kids need discipline.‖ They’re talking about black kids. He said, ―If they learn to fly and they like flying and they want to go on to become a commercial pilot, we’ll put them of to Western Michigan University at their flying school over there.‖ Last fall they got 30 new planes and I had no idea the program was that large, but WMU got 30 new planes for training. I said, ―Dick, how long have you been doing that?‖ He said, ―Oh, quite a while, some guys have gone through the program and become commercial airline pilots and retired. We started in the early 50’s.‖ They don’t tell anybody this and this is something so positive. I said, ―I would like to join an outfit like that.‖ To my knowledge, I’m the only white member of the Detroit chapter. (01:24:57) I carry my membership with me as a matter of fact. Here it is. I’m very proud of that. It is interesting to see that somebody—they are leaving a legacy and let me tell you what is happening to my two groups. I belong with these guys that all learned to fly at Douglas, Georgia in these little puddle jumpers with open cockpits, different classes, but we have that in common and we’ve got a carload of memorabilia and thank god we got a place, they finally put together a museum there and were going to take it down there, but the other group, which is all the people that flew in the 454th in Italy, a much larger group, we got carloads of stuff and nobody knows where to put it. There’s a legacy, but there is no legacy. These guys are leaving a continuing legacy because anybody who wants to support their ideas can join their group. We hold ours to members or their widows they have a great idea. Interviewer “I had the honor of meeting the Southern California Chapter of the Tuskegee Airmen because of my documentary on the Flying Tigers, I would go to air shows and hawk my product and I would be there with the Flying Tigers and there would be the Tuskegee airmen and the Navaho Code Talkers. For a period of about three years I had a chance to sit next to them and talk to them and my great honor with them is that I have a picture that was in their newsletter of me handing a copy of the Flying Tigers to the head of their organization in southern California and having them hand a copy of the Tuskegee airmen to me, so we were shaking hands and I still have that and I am very proud of that?‖ Interviewer: “I want to wind up with the first of all you were mentioning earlier that you figured that America was winning the was. Was there a point when you realized it was ending? Did it come at V-E day or did you actually see that it was ending very soon?‖ (01:27:15) 23 �I think we realized it. To become a Captain at that time, I was now a first Lieutenant and I had been there six months and to become a captain one of the requirements is that you had to lead a mission and they said, ―You’re ready and we’re going to schedule you.‖ I think the date was the 5th of May. Well, in April you’re having fewer flights, you’re reading that we’re advancing our troops and we think the end of the war is pretty close. We still lost guys on the very last mission, but anyway that flight that I was supposed to lead never went because we were winning the war. The war was over as I remember it the 10th or 12th of May. So, I never made that mission and I guess philosophically I would rather be a live Lieutenant than a dead Captain. (01:28:14) We realized it because there were fewer flights, they were less intense, we lost fewer planes and we had brought Germany to her knees by cutting off her fuel. Interviewer: ―What happened on the announcement of victory in Europe?‖ The camp went wild. I think there were some contrived fireworks, I don’t know where the beer came from, but there was a big party. We were ecstatic. It’s over, it’s over, it’s over. Then you got bored because you had nothing to do, so about a week or ten days later I got a letter from my friend Jack Daverin, who just died about a month ago, less than that, two weeks ago, and Jack was on a Red Cross ship. He was in the Army, but that was his job, going back and forth bringing back people who are injured. He had written to me three weeks earlier and said, ―I’m headed for Europe.‖ I thought he was giving me a message and I went down to one of my Captains and I told him my men were getting a little anxious and that I would like to take them out for a little gunnery practice, he said to take a plane, the war is over, so we go out and we shoot a few gunnery practices and then we flew over to Naples and we got binoculars with us and sure enough there’s his plane sitting in the harbor, so I go back and put the plane down and the next day I hitch hiked over there and he gave me some steak. Now, it’s three weeks old, but it was steak and he gave me some milk and that was three weeks old. I don’t know how they kept it, it wasn’t the best, but it was the first I’d had in a long time. We spent a night together and that was a great experience. (01:30:08) You did some stupid things too, I remember we’re cruising along, I don’t know if it was that flight or another one, we’re cruising along the shoreline watching everybody on shore, just looking. You’re supposed to be flying the plane and it’s awfully easy to get distracted, so I’m glad nothing happened. I could’ve easily, and some guys did, they got too low and ―Bingo.‖ Interviewer: ―Was there any talk about going to Japan?‖ All of us thought we were going to Japan. We flew back from southern Italy, the end of June we flew to Marrakech Africa, from Marrakech we flew to the Azores and the Azores were socked in. there are a few island around the mountains and the main runway was 11,000 feet long and it’s socked in and we’re coming in on radio. You have signals like this one is dod-dit and this one is dod-dit and in-between it buzzes and that’s the best thing you had for landing, but you didn’t know if you were on that side of the landing field or that side, so we’re in a storm and it’s raining like mad and we let down and I got nine guys with me and their all looking on and we get down to 300 feet and we finally saw water and all of a sudden we see a wall in front of us and it’s too late to turn either way, so what I did is bring it up and right there’s the runway. (01:31:43) I was about 200 feet below the runway. I have since talked to a guy who was there and I knew him for 24 �two years in the Air Corps and he said, ―Don, you weren’t the only one, that happened more than once. What a sigh of relief, it’s got to be there I hope. The first thing we did by the way and I haven’t asked this in a long time, but ―What do you think we asked for?‖ Interviewer: “Milk?‖ Milk and ice cream, those two things are what we wanted, we didn’t want no beer, we wanted milk and especially ice cream. I think everyone had two malted milks. Interviewer: “It was a taste of home.‖ A taste of home and from there we flew to Gander Newfoundland and from there to Westover Field where we parked our planes and they kept flying them out to Arizona where they put them in a row out there and let them set there for years and years. (01:32:36) We didn’t know that because we thought we were going to Japan. We get processed, we get on a train and there’s 13 cars in the train, the last one is not a sleeper, all the other 12 are sleepers, it takes off and it takes most of the day to get to Chicago, they let the last car off and the other 12 went to Seattle and I’m in the last car. It’s 3:00 Friday afternoon and I’m going through processing and this guy is looking at my stuff and he said, ―Sir, you can get out.‖ I said, ―Get out?‖ He said, ―Ya, you got all these points.‖ I said, ―Let’s do it.‖ He said, ―Oh no, I can’t do it today.‖ I said, ―Why?‖ He said, ―Haven’t got enough time. I’ll give you a three week leave and you come back and we’ll process your discharge.‖ I stood there for a minute and I said, ―Sergeant, what would happen if I stayed over the week-end?‖ He said, ―We would discharge you on Monday.‖ I said, ―I’ll be here.‖ (01:33:28) I thought as long as I could get out I’d had enough. I stayed overnight and the following Monday after discharge, I got home. Interviewer: ―Had you been communicating with your family on a regular basis?‖ One sister in particular and my mother and my dad would write. When my dad would write, he wrote a good letter. I doubt that he wrote more than six the whole time, but usually it was a long letter and then a few friends, guys that I knew that were in various parts of the world and you know every now and then you would get one that they had censored. Interviewer: ―Did you get the black mark or did you get the cut out?‖ Both types. But that’s what you had to do. I have a friend, who his first duty got overseas and they said, ―You’re going to censor these letters.‖ And he said, ―I’ve never done that.‖ He is still living. He is in Naples and he said, ―I have never done that.‖ And the guy said, ―Oh, you know what it’s all about.‖ This is December--November of 1944, and he said, ―I had to sit there and decide--.‖ By that time they had relaxed the rules, but they still had that idea. (01:34:44) Interviewer: ―So, when you left Chicago after being discharges, did V-J day happen anytime during that period?‖ I’m still in uniform and this is funny, I had an aunt and she was a nun, a Carmelite nun in Detroit and her duty in life, she had done this since she was in her 20’s, she was cloistered, whish means all they did was pray, and she was my godmother also, and so I decided to go down and visit her and thank her for her prayers etc., so I stayed over in 25 �Detroit and the next day was V-J Day. That’s where you want to be on V-J Day. I never got so many kisses by so many different women in all my life. I don’t know if I could go through that again or not. I have no complaints. (01:35:34) You walked down Woodward Avenue and they would grab you and hug you and you see the good thing was, I had my uniform on. They didn’t know that I was technically home for final discharge. I had a few more days to go, but it was a good place to be at the right time. Interviewer: ―The country celebrated, it was an outpouring of joy like you had not seen before?‖ Oh, I tell ya, it went on for a couple of days you know, but it was an outpouring of joy, I don’t know if anybody got any sleep that night, all I can remember in Detroit was the celebration and things being thrown out of windows. That was one of the things that worried me. I think somebody was drunk up there, but I had a wastepaper basket half full of water that landed two feet from me and I thought, ―Holy cats, what are we trying to do?‖ People do stupid things under those circumstances, but it was wonderful, the newspapers, I don’t know if I have any newspapers from that day, I should have. I probably do, I got a lot of things I haven’t got time to go through. When I get old, I’ll go through those. (01:36:39) Interviewer: ―For our final questions, there are actually two of them, One is and with as much detail as you can, and keep in mind that this is for your grand children who never met your parents, I would imagine. What was the experience, and you can be as emotional as you want, what was the experience of coming home safe, uninjured, in your uniform. You have done your duty for your country?‖ The grand children met my mother. You have a feeling of gratitude that you survived, you inquire again about the guys that didn’t make it, the guys who are missing in action. It is so good and you take off your uniform and you put on civilian clothes, you take the car if you have one, I didn’t, but my dad had one, or you take the pick-up and you go and visit your friends and you stop at the local tavern and you talk to anybody. (01:37:50) Everybody wants to talk to you. As I say, I didn’t drink in those days, I learned that later on and fortunately it never took over, but visiting friends. I got out in August and I could have gone to college that fall, but I thought, ―Hey, I got to have a little time.‖ I hitch hiked to Detroit and talked to the University of Detroit, I went over to Michigan State College, I hitch hiked over there and talked to the people over there and then I thought, ―Well, I’ll wait until next semester.‖ Then my dad wanted me to go deer hunting with him up north and I had never done that, I went small game hunting and worked on the farm and just tried to get back and relax and kind of put it out of your mind, but I remember the Blue Star Mothers and the Gold Star Mothers with the little—it was almost this size, a little bit smaller than that and the gold stars meant they had lost a son in service and the blue star was for having a son in service. (01:38:48) They put those in the windows and some people had 2,3 or 4 of those in the window. My mother was very active in the Blue Star Mothers and they were a fraternity you might say, they would meet and they would tell stories and my I wrote a letter one time about that experience of us bailing out and that got in the paper. I didn’t plan that or I would have written it a little bit better I guess. (01:39:15) 26 �Interviewer: ―Let me just get one more question in. Looking back on the experience you had in the military and I don’t mean just combat, I mean the whole experience of being in the military, how did that effect the person that you are today? How did it influence the person you are today?‖ Fortunately I came from a disciplined family, but I remember a lot of guys didn’t, but I think we had more discipline in our schools, I know we did in those days, and the guys that couldn’t knuckle under, they did things to you that you wouldn’t want done. I mean they made you drill when you didn’t want to drill. You might be dead tired and you still had to do thing. You had to do push-ups etc. A few guys rebelled, but they got weeded out. It got to a point where, now your getting near being an officer and a pilot and if they didn’t think you were good leadership material or a good pilot, they would call you a flight officer and that means that you could fly the plane, but you wouldn’t be the commander. Well, this one guy, a friend of mine was a flight officer and I thought, ―Gee, I like him etc.‖ We were flying B-24’s and he and I went up one day with just the crew chief and we’re practice flying and we went out and we did instrument flying etc. and we came back and there was a heavy cross wind and were going 90 degrees due east on this runway with this heavy crosswind and he’s flying. We got down on the ground, were in a crab like this, you had to in order to stay even and he gets within 40 feet of the ground and he panics. He gives it full throttle and he said, ―I can’t land this darn thing.‖ I said, ―Take it up, I’ll land it.‖ We circled around, came in on the same runway, got within a few feet, kicked the rudder real hard and the plane swung around and down we went. I thought afterwards, ―Now here’s a guy who panicked when the chips were down, when he had to make a decision.‖ Then I knew why he was not the commander, a nice guy, but you had to learn to make decisions and you had to do a lot of this stuff in advance and that is why they taught you—you didn’t ever practice parachuting, but you got out forward, the way the plane is going, so you get away from the plane. (01:41:35) You don’t pull your ripcord until you count ten and things like that and a lot of rules. It taught me a lot. I teach kids these days that if you’re going down a two lane highway and there’s a guy coming for you and all of a sudden there’s a guy in your lane, your job is to get off before he does and you hit him, you get to that shoulder. I’ve had to do that twice and the funny part of it was that it was within a mile, but it was going in different directions over near Ionia. One time the guy was drunk and the other time it was a farmer and I don’t know what he was doing, but he was passing and it was all fog. My point is it taught me to plan my life a little better, be prepared; I would like to think that a lot of the good things that have happened to me is because of that discipline. You have to—life is getting a hold of yourself, life is attitude. This is a B-24, I don’t care what kind of plane it is-- this would the kind that I flew. Here’s a plane it’s got four propellers and it’s got power. It’s loaded with gas and if I had the right attitude that plane is going to go up, but if I have the wrong attitude, it’s going to go down. The same is true of life. If we have a bad attitude, if we always think it’s going to go wrong, you know, I have had people—I know a lady, a nice lady and if you have a cold, she has a cold, if somebody’s got the flue, she is sure she has the flue. They always think about the worst. I was fortunately taught the other way. You think about the best. (01:43:09) I’ll just go into a quickie, because all of a sudden I see this thing over here. This story was written by the fourteen year old boy who I saved my life and so I brought him over—he was now sixty and his wife is now sixty, they are both teachers, his daughter thirty was a teacher, his son 27 �twenty eight went to work for Avis. I brought him over here in 1990 as my guests, took them all around Michigan, three weeks, Niagara Falls, Toronto, New York, Washington D.C. The boy and his sister could speak English fairly well. Two years later the Bosnian War breaks out and Vinko writes to me and says, ―Don, my son was in the army, they want him to go back in, I want you to bring him to the United States, I don’t want him to go back and get killed.‖ I thought, ―Ok I’ll bring him over here.‖ But then I talked to my friend Vahid, from Detroit, a very bright guy who has been over here since 1986 and an American citizen now and he said, ―Don, don’t do it.‖ I said, ―Why?‖ and he said, ― He doesn’t have an education and he is going to be flipping homburgs and be a very unhappy man.‖ I said, ―That makes sense.‖ (01:44:22) All of a sudden the thought struck me, and I swear to god it came from him and I appreciate that, now this kid is thirty years old, single, handsome, he could dive forty feet to spear a fish without a lung or anything, he can speak English, he has been to the United States, lets get him a job in the U.S. Embassy in Zagreb and Paul Henry was our congressman at the time and Paul helped me do that. He want in as a guard and within two years he is in charge of the motor pool and within five years he is in charge of not only the motor pool, but also the distribution of relief supplies. I talked to him in November and he is still doing that. (01:44:58) This has been fourteen years. Interviewer: “I think that is a great place to stop. I really appreciate this Don, I have been looking forward to this for a long time and I hope it wasn’t too much of an ordeal.‖ It was an ordeal for you. (01:45:15) 28 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JandernoaD Title A name given to the resource Jandernoa, Donald (Interview transcript and video), 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jandernoa, Donald Description An account of the resource Donald Jandernoa served in the Army Air Corps from 1943 to 1945. He trained as a B-24 pilot and flew missions for the 15th Air Force, based in Italy, in the later stages of the war. He describes the training process and his combat experiences in detail, including a mission on which he and his crew had to bail out along the Yugoslav coast and were rescued by local villagers. He also discusses the role of the Tuskegee airmen in protecting his unit. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-03-08 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0a972603bdf9a82c6fca2f4addf3a6c3.mp4 db9d0719272022b08cbf1b8e8eff3cb6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d80d4d084bbfc788813ad79aaa5dd3e6.pdf 2c0bd0885f52f2cb6b35179a78381c8a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Name of Interviewee: Edwin Jamros Name of War: World War II Interview Length (01:58:00) Pre-Enlistment  Born on May 1st, 1918 in Detroit, MI (0:50)  Enlisted in the Coast Guard on October 1st, 1940 (2:20)  Selected the Coast Guard because he knew we would go to war, and the lines were too long in the Army and too long of an enlistment for the Navy and Marines (3:00)  Lived in Brighton, MI at the time (3:40)  Farmed with his parents (1:20:40) Training  Went to Ellis Island, NYC for Basic (4:00)  Learned how to march, handle firearms and military code of ethics over 2-3 months  Assigned garbage detail during this time, which took 30 minutes each meal (5:15)  Drill instructors were First Class Boatswain’s Mate (5:30)  Had a hard time keeping in step with everybody else (5:45) Enlistment  Electrician’s Mate, First Class (2:00)  Mainly served in the European Theater, but was in on some of Africa, as well (6:30)  Also made a trip to Australia (6:50)  Served in the Armory at Ellis Island after Basic Training (7:40)  Did guard duty at the Captain of the Port’s office (7:55)  Pulled 12-8am duty sometimes, had to crack a few heads together (10:00)  Married on May 23, 1941, and wife came to New York to visit him in the fall, but he was deployed the same day (12:00)  Wife went back home to Detroit (13:00)  Was assigned as an Apprentice Electrician on the USS Joseph A Dickman (13:40)  Africa o Initially sailed for Nova Scotia and took on 18,000 British soldiers headed to Cape Town, South Africa (15:40) o Treated royally in Cape Town, and was on shore patrol during the first night (16:45) o Went to Bombay, India after Cape Town (18:30) o Three fastest ships took the troops to Singapore, but surrendered two days later because the Japanese had already taken the land (19:00) o Stayed two weeks in Bombay (19:20) o Learned many things about British rule in India (21:00) o Stopped back in Cape Town to pick up a load of graphite (23:15) �   o On the way home, stopped in Brazil for fuel during Carnival (23:30) o Stayed in Brazil for 2-3 days before coming back to New York (24:40) o Arrived home in January, had liberty every third day (25:30) o Met General Patton while conducting maneuvers off South Carolina (28:00) Australia o Took troops from New York to Panama (29:15) o Ship in front of his hit a rogue mine and disabled it (29:45) o Dropped new troops off in Panama, picked up veteran troops and brought them to Brisbane, Australia (30:00) o Had 320-350 sailors on the ship, but then it moved up to 5,000 people when troops were on board (32:10) o Had a three day party after they crossed the Equator (32:45) o Used a dunk tank for men that had never crossed the Equator before (35:10) o Stayed at port in Brisbane for 1 week (35:40) o Dropped off sailors and barges in New Caledonia (36:00) o Headed back to the Isthmus, and liberty on Balboa for three days (39:00) o Went back for repairs to Norfolk, VA, and he was sent to the Brooklyn Navy Yards to go to Motion Picture School (39:45) o Lived with his wife in a flat in Brooklyn (40:30) o Went to school because he was a projectionist on board his ship (41:00) o After war broke out, projectionist pay was taken away (42:00) Return to Africa o Rejoined the Dickman after repairs were finished (43:00) o Heard before he got his orders that his ship was going to North Africa to invade (45:15) o Was part of a massive convoy (45:30) o Invaded at Fedala in North Africa (46:00) o Initially on the outer ring of ships, but eventually moved to the inside ring so they could unload faster (47:15) o During unloading, ships in the convoy were torpedoed at exactly 6 pm (48:00) o After Fedala, they finished unloading at Casablanca (49:45) o Had to do it in the dark because of snipers (51:15) o Went to Mers el-Kebir for more training after that, and then home to Newport News for repairs (51:45) o Ships crew had to chip barnacles off the side and repaint it (53:30) Sicily o Went to Bermuda for supplies, but were fired upon by torpedoes before they got there (53:45) o Went home for supplies, but then went to Sicily after that (55:30) o Carried Darby’s Rangers on board his ship (55:45) o Participated in the landing in Sicily (58:00) Tape 2   Always landed troops at night (1:01:00) USS Dickman was bombed, had 23 shrapnel holes when the landing was over (1:03:15) �    Came back stateside after the landing in Sicily, had 10 days off and came home to Detroit (1:04:45) Had to check running lights every time they went stateside, only used in port (1:09:25) Took more troops back to Italy, brought supplies to Naples and landed troops at Salerno (1:06:45) Post-USS Dickman o Left the Mediterranean Sea, took troops to Scotland, preparing for D-Day (1:12:00) o Left the USS Dickman in 1944 and was transferred to the Tamarack out of Manitowoc, WI (1:15:00) o Stayed on the Tamarack for 5 months, entirely on the Great Lakes, as a submarine rescue ship (1:15:30) o Transferred to shore duty in Milwaukee, WI for 5 months (1:17:00) o Was transferred to Fort McHenry in Baltimore, MD to do guard duty just before discharge (1:24:00) o Discharged in Cleveland, OH on May 22, 1945 (1:25:00) o Kept in touch with family before the war by mail and phone calls (1:26:10) o Used V-Mail during the war. Mail was censored, but it was free postage and could only use one side of the sheet (1:27:00) o Most of the time, food was very good (1:29:00) o When there were troops aboard, they played a lot of poker, blackjack or other card games (1:38:30) Post-Enlistment  Adopted a child in December of 1949 (1:40:45)  Had two more boys (1:42:45)  After the Coast Guard, he bought 40 acres in Brighton, MI (1:47:00)  Sold the farm, moved in to Fowlerville, MI (1:47:45)  Moved to Ionia, then to Lansing to become an electrician inspector for the State of Michigan (1:48:25)  Retired in 1980, moved to Texas and Arkansas (1:49:15)  Moved to Potterville in 1992 (1:49:50)  Attended several reunions for the USS Dickman (1:50:30)  Never joined any veteran’s organization because he is a Mason (1:52:35)  Ribbons, medal and photographs shown (1:53:35) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JamrosE Title A name given to the resource Jamros, Edwin Francis (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jamros, Edwin Francis Description An account of the resource Edwin Jamros joined the US Coast Guard in 1940 because he knew the United States was going to war. After going to Ellis Island for basic training, he was assigned to the USS Joseph Dickman as an electrician's apprentice. While on the Dickman, he traveled to Africa, Australia, Italy and Scotland. His ship participated in the invasions of North Africa and Sicily. Edwin was discharged as an Electrician's Mate, First Class on May 22nd, 1945. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Erichsen, Wallace J. (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Coast Guard Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-03-21 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/56d2555bc0232db486f6335d789957c3.mp4 cda97747f0fedf3d9c133a3c6f92d43f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/08df525b5cee1c521c3cca183ce1b892.pdf bf258dd6daacfb7f976ea2e237226660 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Marvin Jalving (00:50:51) (00:10) Background Information • • • • • • • • • Marvin was born in 1924 in Holland, MI His parents had 8 children, six of whom were in the service during World War Two He entered the service in July of 1943 Marvin’s father had been a school teacher and then later became a banker They moved from Montana to Michigan when his father stopped teaching His mother had been a house wife His family did not suffer much during the depression because his father’s bank stayed open the whole time Marvin did not pay much attention to news of the war while he was in high school Marvin did not enjoy school or do well in his classes, but graduated in June of 1943 (3:30) Enlistment in the Air Corps • • • • • Marvin was very interested in flying and found the Air Corps to be more glamorous with better conditions than other branches of service He traveled from Holland to Chicago and then took a troop train to Miami, FL He trained through the fall of 1943 Basic training was demanding with marching, calisthenics, and waking up very early every day It was a nice area for training with good food and nice weather (6:15) Advanced Training • Marvin began student aviation training in New York • He then left on a troop train on New Year’s Day to travel to Nashville, TN for placement • The men could place into positions of gunner, pilot, navigator, or bombardier • Marvin took another train to Colorado for armament training • The classes were very different and difficult • He had gunnery training in Texas • He took another train to Nebraska and was assigned to a B-24 for flight training • They flew over Colorado and New Mexico dropping fake bombs over targets • Marvin began flying in B-17s, which were much safer and newer • He then went to Kansas for outfitting for overseas (11:00) Going Overseas • Marvin took a troop train to New Jersey for orientation and then boarded the Queen Elizabeth • The food on the ship was English and horrible and there were thousands of men on the ship • They traveled with a convoy and landed in Scotland • On Christmas Eve of 1944 they took a train to England • They stayed at a base near Ipswich and his sister worked in a nearby hospital �(17:40) Flight Missions • Marvin began flying missions in 1945 toward the end of the war • They were shooting out railroad yards and gasoline refineries • Most of the missions were in Germany with a few in France and England • The Germans were no longer sending up fighters because they were out of fuel • The Germans were still sending up a lot of flak (23:40) Missions Gone Wrong • Marvin had been flying over France when the oxygen stopped working and he had to eject • He woke up disoriented and was found by a French farmer and his son • They rolled him a cigarette out of some newspaper and his wife gave him some apple brandy, which made him pretty drunk • An Army truck came and picked him up and it took them six days to get back to England • They continued flying missions, which began to take a psychological toll on many of the men (29:45) Free Time on the Base • Marvin often rode bikes, exercised, went to church, wrote letters, and spent time in the recreational hall • After the war he was still in England doing boring jobs, such as KP • He took a liberty ship to Boston and was on furlough in December of 1945 • He had furlough for one month and had been with his family during VJ day (33:15) the Pacific • Marvin was sent to Santa Ana, CA and scheduled to go to the Pacific • He was angry that he might have to go overseas again • He spent more time on KP in CA and soon found that he had enough points to be discharged • He was sent back to Wisconsin and relaxed until he was finally discharged in October of 1945 (34:25) Michigan • Marvin moved back with his parents and began taking classes at Hope College • He did not like school and began working in transportation /trucking • His overall service experience was good, but many men got psychological problems because they could not accept the things that happened (39:35) Air Corps Reunion • The 34th bomb group has a reunion every year • Marvin has been to reunions in Tennessee, Colorado, Cincinnati, and Michigan • They are harder to attend as he gets older • He feels that he had been brainwashed by the Air Corps, but was fortunate that he was never wounded and that all his family members are ok (43:05) Showing of Pictures �/0/:' /'6 --r:o tq OLD I:. \1 13 r d~=< !-' C ;/2. /y fI c..1-l1 e 'f 6-A rJ uj:; IN ~:< /: ii!. <.~ (p (L.j.! I cA I;"~:i J r LC I "J::.\/ ~ Ift£1J A. t1/AMi -eE-Ar:::.f-I, FLPI'C,DA -r,/...!.- -rrlt!f. f',Al-l tip 5'-1 /il.. U i'~ "-' U l2~ '1' B.... "",.., <"'l::> 1"''''''1''\·'( fYI!;;." .',_h"','~ La 8<-- () N It c; I}+ -t:: ""t-.; U \',e;;-l"'- c ,,)"0 I'''','''''''/''_''''-t ~i"'} ,'V i cq:: TH t .. "'i- \A.f,~ -DA t" ~ f.'" f ,:.F,· ... ri\\,iL'~=.'.' "r.: R_";'(l,........... ..1''''f>',~'''., ,_~_';,-: _"'~_~ "i T H.e SPIt, ! fA; 6'{ 4tJD .s 0/""11: A,.,JD Ttfe,.,{..,o r tJ \) I !{;,A1 TO i,A/ Su WLI'>\ Et'1, M£:f\.li IN \ N'!? /YllLc> 'S:1'At·J"),';;.!,\ li\1 Ai 8-A P " ,v~ P A,-ri4 fifN "t' ~l ,5;- 12,~ " r;:;. \ (1 f,'1,~1~, !t~1 H-a l;/t + r:::(.21Y\') t' k+':: A'Ai v De; / t--J<;., Y A IZ l;);.x;. ~LevJ BAc;k I~ !..f'JTH r I'J tS f5 \iT R E-l-/-I l:;: x , ;,' ;- J)£TEr2N!,:-j£;) T.-\4=\I HAD ENOU~! I~!A/IJ, 1D ~T 1-\ A5S;6-r,J ~''):, TrfE, ~r!\ $.k O~ C.-J~,4rl6:£ 6- SOf<'t;:: ~Y'5HIP '1'-~4~1<,;:~ To /-~ \r CJ 'v 0. rf LA!~ Rf:-AS~/GJ-j­ t tJ ~ 4~. \lJ,l+iL.~f4t'>Me: \(~ PI1lHAPPr:,..,\ F-.'h. .r H-/t D 10 KEPOt<-! 'f"OrZSANTA A"!~I C/iLlFoItNIA,. t1HEte.. /v1'1 <u{2../-O!JGf1, Wfi/LEIvVAS n+t:?f~E I\, Y\! H I L.E ) POI titS- NoT Iv{ OCrl 0 f II>( l\! , [1, ~~,'.p__ , /",'\,,!, (:)(7:' 11 tJp K1 1) VT'! n y{//!.>: j DIS.c.rU1;:'&::=. r wAS &O','\!~ TO 1{'2..U!~,>~ '::'5LJ;; rtY. MADISON; 't-"/r;,e.,1"NJ) f3E!/'':c TvjO OTI-}£\Z &-·U'/s f!6-A/ JUST "ToO,"" IT f:/\S:; Vf../-nL r 'ilA.5 I fd?" � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JalvingM Title A name given to the resource Jalving, Marvin (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jalving, Marvin Description An account of the resource Marvin Jalving enlisted in the Army Air Corps in July of 1943 and was discharged in October of 1945. He went to England late in 1944 and flew 23 missions in B-17s, most of which were in Germany taking out train yards and gasoline refineries. After flying missions in Europe, George had been sent to California and scheduled to leave for the Pacific. He was relieved when he found that he had enough points to be discharged before he was sent to the Pacific. Personal narrative appended to interview outline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McCauslin, Kelly (Interviewer) Spring Lake District Library (Spring Lake, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army. Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-04-05 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/188f9a7602ee01a05bbc5f5ca8e53141.mp4 1d6da459297dd8842998898e47d476df https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/82815f107330c33267496c94da1c06b6.pdf b335674d7f7cfd4de3b9d992dd0262a3 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral History Interview Veteran: Richard Jakubczak Interviewed by James Smither Transcribed by Grace Balog Interviewer: We are talking today with Mr. Richard Jakubczak of Holland, Michigan. And the interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Now, can you start us off with some background on yourself. To begin with, where and when were you born? Veteran: I was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan. St. Mary’s Hospital, 1946, May 20th. Interviewer: Okay. Now, did you grow up in Grand Rapids? Veteran: Partially. I went to Holy Name of Jesus School. And then in about the 7th grade, we moved to a little town by Ada, Michigan, called Parnell. And went to a school called St. Patrick’s until the 10th grade. And then eventually, graduated from Lowell Senior High School. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Because St. Patrick’s closed their high school. Interviewer: Alright. Now, what did your family do for a living while you were growing up? Veteran: My father worked for Irwin Seating Company and my mother was a housewife. Interviewer: And how many kids were in the family? �Veteran: There was—I have—had an older brother, a younger sister, and I have a younger brother who is 17 years younger than I am. And my older brother has passed away. And he was about 15 months older than I was. So, we hung around. We did everything together. Interviewer: Alright. So, in what year did you graduate from high school? Veteran: I graduated in 1965. Interviewer: Okay. And then, what did you do once you graduated? Veteran: Well, that was the summer to play. I did have a job at a place called Lowell Engineering, when it was still located in Lowell. And besides that, it was just a summer of typical summer—what all kids are doing. After they graduate, you’re free. But you know, we used to live by a lake so we did a lot of swimming. I worked for the farmers. Threw a lot of hay bales in my time so…And just hung around. Interviewer: Okay. And did you have any plans beyond that for what you wanted to do next? (00:02:02) Veteran: I actually started at Kendall School of Design. And I went there for a year to try to get into—well, art design and that. And either the professors didn’t appeal to me or the structure that they wanted me to do didn’t appeal to me. So, I left. And once I left, I became A-1 for the draft. So, we were having some family problems about that time and I had an awful lot of arguments with my father. And after one argument, I just walked out of the house and said, “I am going to go join the Marines.” My father was in the Air Force. All his brothers, all my uncles, were in the Marines. My grandfather was in the Army. So, it was almost a tradition. But this—I was just leaving. I was going to go join the Marine Corps. And my older brother said, “No, no, don’t. We will go join the Navy. I will go join the Navy with you.” So, we both went down, saw the �recruiter, and joined the Navy. And 10 days later, we were on a 120-day delay plan. And about 10 days after we had signed up for the Navy, I got my draft notice. So, I called up and said, “Well, who has got me?” They said, “So, where do you want to go?” So, I just stayed with the Navy and went in. And when you go to boot camp at Great Lakes Naval Hospital—or Great Lakes Naval Yard, they gave you a list that you could put in and sign up for, to see what you want to do while you are in the Navy. Well, I had just passed the test for aviation. And I put that on the top of my list. And my older brother, again, said, “Corpsman! Put corpsman down. Just put it down the last—last on the list.” And little did we know, that they were drafting corpsmen at that time, just to go to replace the ones that were in Vietnam. So, we did and the next thing after graduation from boot camp, we went to corps school. Both of us. (00:04:17) Interviewer: Alright. Now, let’s…Go through the beginnings of the process. Now, did you a physical in Michigan? Or was your first physical actually done at Great Lakes? Veteran: Well, the first physical was in Detroit, Michigan. Actually, the second physical was also in Detroit, Michigan. When we got to Great Lakes, we had another physical. Interviewer: Alright. Now, at the first one—at Detroit—did you have people who had been called up for the draft and things like that there? Or…? Veteran: Yes. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: During the physical, or right after the physical, was taken, we were in this large auditorium. And there was quite a few of us. And they lined us up. And they said, “1, 2, 3, 4 Marine. 1, 2, 3…” Well, we ended up being Navy anyway. So, that’s why we went to Navy bootcamp. First, they asked for volunteers. �Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And then they said, “Okay, every 4th man is going to be a Marine.” Interviewer: But you were already enlisted and headed for the Navy so that— Veteran: Yep. Interviewer: --that didn’t matter for you. Veteran: But most of these were guys that had joined the Navy. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And technically, the Marine Corps is part of the Navy. Interviewer: It is? Oh, okay. Veteran: So, they had just went 1, 2, 3, 4—that’s the Marine. Interviewer: Alright. Because like I said, in other situations they have general troops and draftees who come in and then it’s Army and Marines and they do the same thing. Okay. Veteran: And— Interviewer: But this was a largely Navy group that you were— Veteran: That is correct. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And I mean, most of the guys there signed up. There was very little, back in 1966, there was very little people being drafted. [Note: There was a massive draft from Michigan later in the year] Most of the ones that we were around all joined at that point. �Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now when you got down to Great Lakes, they did a physical there. Was that more thorough than what you had in Detroit? Or was it the same thing all over again? (00:06:05) Veteran: It was—if you didn’t have anything major wrong with you, you were going to pass. It was the same thing as in Detroit. It was quick. And the whole thing—that day kind of like whizzed by. You get there at 5:30 in the morning. And they say, “Well, you’re going to sleep there. Make your bunk. And you’re going to get up at reveille.” Well, by the time you made your bunk, you’re going to lay down for about 5 minutes. So, we just kind of like laid down on the mattresses and slept for about 20 minutes. And then, the rest of that day was the physical, the haircut, getting your clothes, ID cards. All of that within the first few days—or the first day, I mean. Interviewer: Alright. And what was the—kind of the daily regimen like? What were you doing from day to day in boot camp? Veteran: Well, actually I got very—myself and my brother got very lucky. On the train going to Great Lakes from Grand Rapids, or from Detroit, a guy told us—he said, “Volunteer for morning clean up.” And what that did is we got to get up earlier than everybody else, have breakfast, and come back. And then, by that time, everybody else was up getting ready to go do physical therapy—or, physical education, doing your exercises and all that, doing personal inspections and everything else while all we had to do was—we made sure all the bunks were the right way, as cleaned up as—all the clothes were folded the right way. We had to wash our own clothes and tie them on lines. We had to make sure the knots were okay. And then we joined the rest of the company for the schooling because in the Navy, most of it was very little physical and a lot of education. And—because you had to learn the ways about the Navy. And so, the only time that I �stood a personal inspection was when the whole company stood a personal inspection. I didn’t have to do it every morning. Interviewer: Alright. Now, was there a lot of emphasis placed on discipline while you were there? (00:08:17) Veteran: I think—yes, there was. More discipline, I think, than a lot of the guys were used to. Because we had people from all over and believe me, some of those guys were extremely naïve. And didn’t meet a lot of different people. I mean, we had people from New York, California, Texas, Florida. We had them from all over. And the discipline in our small company was really not that hard. It just, to me, hearing other guys talk that have gone in through the Army and the Marine Corps, the Navy bootcamp is nothing compared to what the Army and Marine Corps go through. It was very lax. We did—you had to march and do all that kind of stuff. But mostly it was learning about the Navy. About ships. And of course, that was something I had never walked on. I never set foot on a ship the 4 years I was in the Navy. So, it was an interesting time. I actually was looking forward to boot camp. We worked for farmers the last 5-10 years and got pretty well-built. And we were strong. We threw a lot of hay bales. And actually, Navy boot camp got us out of shape. Interviewer: Alright. Well, I think that’s a first. But okay. And how long did the boot camp take? Veteran: Our boot camp was 12 weeks. Interviewer: Okay. And then when you complete boot camp, what’s the next step for you? (00:10:03) �Veteran: Got orders on the last week. And that was to Corps School. And you had 2 weeks off, 15 days off, and then you had to come back and we reported to Corps School. And basically, that’s what it was. It was a school. You marched to your classes but it wasn’t like boot camp at all. It was—that was your job. You just had to do it the military way. And so, Corps School was also 12 weeks. Interviewer: Okay. Now, what did they actually teach you? What specific sort of skills or things did—information—did they give you? Veteran: Basically, they taught us about the same things as an LPN, or Licensed Practical Nurse, is taught. How to work in a hospital. How to make beds the right way. The different diseases. Not so much first aid. Mostly, it was just working in a hospital. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And the different jobs that you would have to do in a hospital. They went through operating assistance all the way to emergency room assistance and just working on a ward. And we did that for a little bit too. Interviewer: But you weren’t really, at that point, getting trained to go into a combat situation and… Veteran: No. Interviewer: Accompany a Marine unit in the field, things like that? Veteran: Nothing. There was no combat. This was strictly to get you ready for the medical field in the Navy. Period. We did learn first aid. I think there was a—they spent about 3 to 5 days in �classrooms talking about it and showing you what the different wounds were. They also spent a couple days going over what the venereal diseases were. So, I mean, first aid was very little. Interviewer: Alright. What sort of people did they have teaching you at Corps School? Veteran: They were all lieutenant commanders or a little bit lower but all officers and nurses. And pretty much, it was a nurse that was in charge of the whole Corps School. And they worked at teaching us but they also spent time at Great Lakes Naval Hospital. Interviewer: Now, were the nurses men or women or both? (00:12:19) Veteran: When I was going to the Corps Schools, it was all women. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. And then at the point when you complete Corps School, do they then ask you—give you any choices about what your assignment might be? Or what happens at that point? Veteran: In the military, they don’t give you—they don’t ask you anymore. They just say, “This is what you’re going to do.” Unfortunately, they were—myself and my brother had an MOS of 84-04, which meant it was a field corpsman. And which also meant that you, after Corps School, you would go to Camp Lejeune, North Carolina and learn the Marine Corps way of doing things. Believe me, it was a lot different than the Navy. Interviewer: Oh, I bet. Veteran: We—in February of ’60— Interviewer: 7 now? Veteran: 7, I flew down—well, we flew down to Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. And we got in and their instructors were all staff sergeants or above. And they all were Vietnam veterans. Some �of them had more than one tour. And they had one goal and one goal in mind: to try to keep us alive when we have to go to Vietnam. So, they were hard on us. And they got us back in shape. I had—we had to follow a Marine who was probably 50—in his mid-50s. And he could do physical stuff that all us 19 and 20-year-olds and 18-year-olds, we could not keep up with this man for nothing in the world. And I think that always made his day, if he could get everybody just to finally get pooped out. Because he just made sure that—his goal was to get us back in shape and he really did. He got us in very good physical condition. Interviewer: Okay. Now, did you get some of the sort of the boot camp experience of the people screaming at you and all of that sort of thing? Or was this just a lot more focused on the actual training? (00:14:33) Veteran: This was actually focused on the actual training. They wanted to teach us how the Marines act in the field so we could know what was going on when we were there. And how to react under fire and what to do under fire. They also had medical staff there that—they were the ones that taught us actual first aid. You know, I can recall that we were practicing lots. And they gave us different people that were supposed to be injured in different ways. The scenario was it was an atomic blast and so you had wounded people and dead all over the place. And I started working on this one who has supposedly a stomach injury. And another corpsman was helping me when the instructor came up and he said, “Why are you working on this guy? Is he seriously hurt?” He said, “In a time of war, you leave him be and find the ones that are least injured, to get them back on the firing line.” That, for me, was one of the hardest things to try to adapt to. The ones that are hurt the worst are the ones that you want to help the most because a lot of those guys were going to die because they had to wait for you to take care of somebody who wasn’t �going to die but could still fight. So, that was one of the hardest lessons we had to learn. And even when I went to Vietnam, that was one of the hardest things we had to do. (00:16:26) Interviewer: Alright. Now, when you are in the training here, did they expect corpsmen with the Marines to carry weapons? Or was that not part of it? Veteran: Technically, according to the Geneva Convention, I was told that we were going to carry a 45, which we did. But it was not for us. It was for the protection of the wounded. That is how they got around the Geneva Convention. And I needed to use an M-16 a couple times when I was in Vietnam and there was always one on the ground. So, when I needed it, I didn’t have to carry it. They were already there. Interviewer: Did you have weapons training, beyond the 45? Veteran: We…I shot the M-16, the M-60, .50 caliber machine gun, the M-79 Blooper, which is a grenade launcher. I shot everything that I could possibly shoot just to get used to shooting it. I shot an AK-47. The Marines were very happy to let us shoot. But most of my shooting was done in Vietnam during fan fires. And at Camp Lejeune, we had an M-14 which we shot. Nice weapon, by the way. Little heavy for jungle fighting. And the 45. And I was—nobody was very good with the 45. They had to be really close for you to hit anything with the 45. The M-14 was an outstanding weapon. And I didn’t get to shoot the M-16 until we were actually in Vietnam. Interviewer: Alright. Now, how long did the Corps School last? (00:18:08) Veteran: In Camp Lejeune, it lasted 6 weeks. And most of that was learning how the Marines act in the field, how to move with the Marines and what to do under certain conditions. As an example, if you’re caught in an ambush, the whole goal is to have the suppressing fire so you’re not tied down, you’re actually going to the enemy. And that came to play because some—our �staff sergeant—sorry, I don’t remember names. I had made it a habit not to remember names and now, for the life of me, I can’t—the names I want to remember, I can’t. This staff sergeant that was our instructor taught us that when you get ambushed, you attack. So, they have this 3-day outing at the end of it before you graduate and we are a company of corpsman playing Marine. And we get ambushed by the Marines. So, we attacked. And we followed our instructor’s words to the letter and we actually pushed our attackers back into the swamp. And our staff sergeant came up and he was just angry as hell. And we couldn’t figure out why. We did what he did. He said we were supposed to die. We were not—he wanted to make an example of us and we were all supposed to die. We weren’t supposed to do what we did and I just—I was the one that spoke up because I have a big mouth. And I just says, “Sergeant, didn’t we do what you told us?” He said, “Yeah, damn it. You did.” He was a nice guy. He was a great guy. These guys were unbelievable. When we were out in the field for the training, these guys would come out of nowhere. And if I am laying in this one position, he would come up and say, “No, doc. Not there. Go to this hollow part right there. That puts you down a little lower and if they can’t see you, they can’t kill you.” And I turned around to thank him and he’s gone. I mean, these guys had one thing and one thing only: we are going to get you through Vietnam as best we can. So, we loved them. Interviewer: Okay. Now, at this point—you know, late into ’67—how much do you actually know about Vietnam and what was going on over there? (00:20:45) Veteran: That’s a very nice question. Absolutely nothing. I just knew we were going to Vietnam when…We were told in boot camp, “Don’t put down corpsman,” but we did anyway, “you’re going to go to Vietnam.” We didn’t know what Vietnam was. What’s Vietnam? And that was the �way it was all the way through. We started—you know, right about this time, we got more and more knowing that it was not a nice place to go. But by then, it was way too late. Interviewer: Yeah. Now, once you complete Corps School, what’s the next step for you? Veteran: The next step, I went back to Great Lakes Naval Hospital. I was the lucky one of the two. My brother got assigned to 3 North, which was an orthopedic ward. I got assigned a SOQ, which was a sick officer’s quarters. These were all semi-private rooms to private rooms up there on the 12th floor, looking over everything. And my brother had a ward that had 60 patients in it. These were all mostly guys that were wounded in Vietnam. And—because Great Lakes took an awful lot of patients from there. And in retrospect, I actually wish I would have gone with him to that ward. It would have got me better prepared to do what I had to do when I went to Vietnam. He was changing an awful lot of dressings down there. And gaining experience. And at that time, I thought I was the lucky one. But in fact, my brother was. Interviewer: Okay. Now, how long did they have you do this duty? (00:22:34) Veteran: We were supposed to work there for at least a year before we went to Vietnam. But we had been at that hospital less than—maybe 10 months. And we had—I got a call. I was working on the 12th floor and I got a call to go down to personnel. And when I got down there, my brother was down there. And I looked at him and he looked at me and said, “What’s up? What did we do?" First thing in the mind. And the chief came up and said, “Well, a Jakubczak got orders to go to Vietnam.” And we asked, “Which one?” Because his serial number was B510022. Mine was B510023. And he said, “It’s your choice.” We asked the chief what would happen. He said, “One of you would go and when he finishes his tour, he’ll come back and then the other one will go.” And my brother and I didn’t like that because if I go first, he’s sitting there wondering what’s �going on. And then when I come back, I know what’s going on so I am going to be worried about him. So, we talked the chief into taking us both. Me and my brother had the 2-2. He got the orders and I got volunteered but we were already on the list. All the corpsmen that went to Vietnam during my time, that I know of, were all volunteers. That was a job that we were supposed to do. So, that—we got time off. 30 days off in January. And towards the end of January, we flew to California to get shipped to Vietnam. Interviewer: Now, when you got to California, did they give you any kind of preparation? Any shots? Or any other training? Or…? (00:24:37) Veteran: I had already gotten my shots at Great Lakes before I left. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Everybody would—if they were in the medical field, they got them right there. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And when I got to California, all it was was just okay, we got to get you some green clothes like the Marines and a uniform and some combat boots and fatigues. And then it took a few days and we were only in California 4 days. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And then we—once we flew out, and I believe that was El Toro that we flew out of. We flew—I was in Japan for about 40 minutes while they fueled us. We never left the plane. And then we took off and ended up in Okinawa. Interviewer: Now, was this a military aircraft or a charter? Veteran: Yes. To get there. �Interviewer: Yeah. Alright. Veteran: From Okinawa to Vietnam, it was Continental. And the stewardesses were pretty goodlooking. And they were all volunteers, by the way. Greatest bunch of people. They knew where we were going because they had—they often did this many times. And made us as comfortable as they could possibly make us. And joking around the whole time there. It was a very nice flight. Interviewer: Now, was the flight all corpsmen? Or were there different personnel, kinds of personnel there? Veteran: It was all enlisted. Interviewer: All enlisted. (00:26:08) Veteran: There might have been some—there were some officers there but…maybe 10 or 12 officers. But the rest of the plane was full of enlisted men. Interviewer: Alright. But were they—were there just a few of you who were medical corpsmen and the rest were just regular grunts? Or…? Veteran: It was mixed. There were corpsmen on there, there was infantry, there was probably people there that were going to be in tanks. Artillery people. I mean, it was a mixture of everything. Interviewer: Alright. And you’re going over there essentially as replacements. You’re going go and join units that are in the field? Veteran: We were all replacements. Interviewer: Alright. �Veteran: And it was…We flew from Okinawa and landed in Vietnam. We are now in the Republic of Vietnam. Interviewer: And where did you land? Veteran: And it was in Da Nang. Interviewer: Da Nang. Okay. Veteran: And he was taxiing down the runway and it’s just getting hotter and hotter in the plane. And we were going, “I hope he turns the air conditioning on before too long.” And he comes to a stop and he says, “We are now turning the air conditioning off.” And it—as soon as he turned it off, the heat index immediately went to the roof. We had 4 men pass out from the heat. We could hardly wait to get out of the plane. It felt like you were being baked. It’s what it did. And when we got to the outside, it was just as hot outside as it was inside that plane. There was very little relief. There was a little bit of wind but it was—it was—they told us it was 110. So, it—leaving Michigan in February, it was 28 degrees and now we were in 110 degrees. Interviewer: Alright. Veteran: I believe in 1968, the average temperature for the whole year was 115. Interviewer: The average high probably. Veteran: The average—yeah. Interviewer: Yeah. Okay, now what did they do with you? You get off the plane. Now what happens? (00:28:13) Veteran: When I got off—when we got off the plane—we went into a large room and just sat around. This was where you were going to get your orders and where you were going to go. And �we are just sitting around, waiting for them to call our names. And they called out they were looking for volunteers. And we need corpsmen to go to Force Recon. And so, I said, “Okay.” I said, “I’ll do that.” And I was getting up to go and they’re—I am sitting with 4 other Marines and they all said, “Doc, sit down. You’re not volunteering for that.” I said, “Oh no? Why?” He says, “Trust us. You’re not volunteering for that.” So, I sat down and I ended up being assigned to a company called 4th Shore Party, an HST Company which was—they handled the logistics for the Marines out in the field. And they usually send—there was like 4 or 5 guys that would go on every operation or any large sweep that they needed to resupply with. And all—whatever they needed, they gave it to our radioman and he called it in and they’d send choppers in to resupply them. Whether it was ammo, medical supplies for me, food, anything that they needed was coordinated through 4th Shore Party in this area. So, that’s where I was assigned. And pretty much, I went with the company—people and companies—I went with was like the 3rd Marines. On one operation with the 5th Marines, the 27th Marines, the 9th Marines, and the 26th Marines. So, I was with a lot of different units for short periods of time when they needed to be resupplied. And that’s where, when we went out in the field, and whenever we had action, I would leave my small unit and go to where the fighting was so I could help the other corpsmen do their job. (00:30:24) Interviewer: Okay. So, you’re there nominally as corpsman for the people out of your own unit? Veteran: Right. Interviewer: But then when something happens, then you’re a corpsman— Veteran: That’s what I do. �Interviewer: --and you kind of go where needed. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. So, where did they actually have you based when you get to Vietnam? Veteran: We were actually based—4th Shore Party was actually right across from a place called Freedom Hill, where we called it Freedom Hill. And it was just outside a village we called Dog Patch. That is—I believe it was southwest of Da Nang. Interviewer: Alright. And physically, what was the country like around there? Veteran: Where I was, it was a lot of rice paddies that were dry. Some of them had water in them but very few. It was an extremely dry year in 1968 apparently. Mountainous. And once you got towards the mountains, there was a jungle. Pretty much that was about it. Interviewer: Okay. Now, what was the date when you arrived? Veteran: I arrived in country February 4th, 1968. Interviewer: Okay. And that’s going to be right after the start of the Tet Offensive. Veteran: It was 4 days after the start of the Tet Offensive. Interviewer: Now, was there much going on in your sector at that point? Or was it elsewhere in the country? Veteran: No. Actually, the other corpsmen said, “Boy, you just missed it. Last night they blew up an ammo dump and you could see it: flames and everything.” Yeah, we were just—they hit further north. Now, I know in Tet they hit a lot of different areas all the way down. But they didn’t do Da Nang quite as bad as what they did other places. So, I guess it was—we were kind �of like, you know, lucky. In a little bit lucky area. The areas around us, some of them, which were called Happy Valley, which by the way was not a happy valley. A lot of Vietnamese there. Elephant Valley, Dodge City, Arizona Territory. That was in an area called province—I think it was a province called Thuong Duc. And that—all of that was west and—west and southwest of Da Nang. (00:32:50) Interviewer: Alright. Now, were you in a base camp of some kind that you reported in? Or…? Veteran: I was in a battalion. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And that’s a large base camp. A company is roughly 187 men. And a battalion takes up or makes up 3 companies and a command group. So, yeah, there was about 400, maybe a little more, plus or minus to be exact. About 400 men there. Interviewer: Okay. At least as long as the units are at full strength, which they are not always. Veteran: My first assignment was—the first thing I did was they brought me to supply and I got a helmet, I got the flak jacket, and I got a .45 with a one clip for the .45 and two spares and a box of .45 ammo. Which, okay, that was fine. And everything—I am still in the mode that this is— we are still playing soldier. And so, they said, “Well, it’s time for you to go to your first assignment. We want you to go on a mine sweep because this is one of the things that this battalion also did.” So, I said, “Sure. Let’s go.” And then we went to by Marble Mountain. There was a battalion area there of 3rd LVTs. (00:34:23) �Veteran: And right outside Marble Mountain. And then there was a little village right next to that, right in front of the camp. So, that’s where we stayed when we were on this mine sweep. So, we would sweep the road through the village and go around up Highway 1 for about a mile and a half. And we would do that every morning. And that is not—it wasn’t bad duty because that is all you had to do all day. You could play cards. You could go to Enlisted Men’s Club. You could do anything. So, that’s not so bad. And that’s what I did for about 4 days. It was great. On the 5th day, this truck hit a mine. Now, the Marine’s mine sweepers were great for picking up metal. But they weren’t great for picking up hard, solid objects that weren’t metal. And the gooks knew this. So, they would build a mine out of wood with the explosive. Well that’s what this—it was a command detonated explosion. And it blew up a truck. And the first guy that I got to looked like he was slumped over in the front seat, or what was left of the front seat. And there was just—it was a bloody mess all over. And I reached over and pulled him and he had lost—he was—lost his head. It had a crooked jawline up here like this to the lower part, middle part, of the ear and all of this was gone. That was my first casualty. First guy I turned over. It…That was a shock. To say the least, that was a shock. But there was another guy there that I had to treat. So, I treated him. (00:36:18) Veteran: Actually, the one that was killed was horrible but the guy that was right next to him had two new deep cuts in his arm and that was it. Which was nice for this guy but—so, I put a battle dressing on and took care of him. But we looked for this man’s head for about 20 minutes and we couldn’t find it. And then I started to get scared. This was a place where I might not be able to get out of…alive, anyway. Now, I knew I stopped playing soldier at that moment. And then it was quite serious from that point on. �Interviewer: Okay. Now, when you were on a mission like this, were you spending nights out in the field? Was there another base camp or…? Veteran: They had—this aid station had 12 other corpsmen. But there was 3 of us that we were alternating in and out of the field. And I would work—they—this was easy duty usually, the mine sweep team. So, you would go out there and spend a week or two then come in and go on an operation. And I actually left after that incident. 5 days later, I went back to my base camp and they asked me would I go on operations and I said yes. So, my first operation was nice. It was not bad. It was off of Hill 110, which to be honest with you, I am not sure the location. But it is in around Hill 55. It is all south—south and southwest—of Da Nang. So, we jumped off Hill 110 and we were gone about 4 days out in the field. Couldn’t—didn’t see anything. It was just— turned out to be, you know, a long, hot walk in the middle of the jungle and then we came back. (00:38:29) Veteran: And we were going to stay on Hill 110 for a day and a half so they could come pick us up with trucks because they weren’t sure if they were going to use us on another operation right off the bat or not. So, that night they woke us up and we were in a tent on cots and they woke us up and said, “Get in the holes.” A hole is a foxhole. And so, we all did. Apparently, military intelligence, which later we would call an oxymoron, but military intelligence says there was a lot of movement around Hill 110. And we may be getting hit. So, we are all in there, waiting around. It’s—waiting for something to happen. And I get called, “Corpsman! Corpsman!” Nothing happened yet. And so, I run down to this other foxhole and apparently—I mean, I am getting nervous up there and apparently this guy was really getting nervous because he was hyperventilating. And the only way I could get him to stop was I took a large battle dressing and I—they were encased in plastic. So, I just—I took one, I took the plastic off the battle dressing �and I made a little bag out of it and I said, “Blow on this. Just breathe in and out with this and it will slow you down.” And then, the guy next to him, I said, “If he passes out, don’t worry about it because his breathing will go back to normal and he is just going to wake up.” But this guy is blowing in this bag and he’s slowing down. I said, “The only thing I want you guys to know is if you see gooks coming our way, shoot straight.” And then I went back to my hole. (00:40:28) Veteran: Well, about an hour and a half later, we start getting hit with mortars. And the mortars just—they came in from everywhere and they were hitting all areas of Hill 110. And we had a couple wounded and we got them to the aid station. I threw a battle dressing on them and we got them to the aid station where there is a doctor on the hill. And then, went back to the hole. And it died down for about what seemed to be like a half hour. And then they started walking them in on the wire. Now, there is concertina wire which is the same thing as barbed wire only it is a lot sharper, razor sharp. And it’s, the area where we are, it’s got concertina wire all the way around in front of us. And they walked the mortars in and they knocked one of the largest holes in that fence. And we just knew that we were going to be seeing gooks any time. Well, nothing happened. And it really, I mean, it was wide open but nothing happened. Well, as it turned out, later that—earlier that day—General Westmoreland was actually visiting the commander of Hill 110. And General Westmoreland left. And we thought that when the gooks still thought he was there and they were trying to get him. And when they found out that he wasn’t there, it wasn’t worth their sacrifice to try to take the hill. So, the attack never happened. (00:42:22) Veteran: But the next morning, when we went back to the tent where we were sleeping, and that tent was just like swiss cheese. And the cot that I was sleeping in, you could not—there was not a space open. If I would sit on it, I would fall through. It was like a—it was just riddled with �holes from shrapnel. So, that was—I considered myself really, really lucky. And then later that morning, we got picked up and I went back to our battalion headquarters again. Interviewer: Now, in this area, were you going in and out on trucks or did they use helicopters? Veteran: Both. Most of the time, if you took a truck, you were going to a specific location, some battalion area where you were going to kick off the operation. We did that on a number of occasions. They would drive you to Hill 110 and then you started humping from Hill 110 to wherever you wanted, wherever you were going to go. And on one occasion, they did that. It was—they gave us a USO Show. We were already there, waiting to get ready to go. And then all of a sudden, they decide we are going to throw you a USO Show. And everybody is having a good old time and, all of a sudden, it started dawning on everybody: why are they doing this? Why are they making these things so nice right now? And all the levity, it totally changed. And it didn’t matter what those people did on stage, it was dead quiet. Everybody was starting to think about what was—where we were going. And it was a good thing because we ended up going to Happy Valley that night. humping into it. (00:44:20) Interviewer: Okay. Now to back up a little bit, when you got into Vietnam, did they give you any kind of ‘Welcome to Vietnam’ orientation? Was there any sort of training that you got to prepare you to go into the field? Veteran: No. They did orientate us about Vietnam and the biggest thing they were worried about was syphilis. Gonorrhea. Venereal disease. “You will stay away from the women. Because if you don’t stay away from the women”—this was a big speech that we had— “you will get black syphilis. And if you get black syphilis, you can’t go home. They’re going to send you to an �island and they’re going to tell your parents that you died.” And this is what they were trying to tell me and I knew better. And I kind of like laughed it off. And but these guys, some of these Marines were paying really close attention. And there was no such thing as black syphilis. Never was. But they were trying to keep them away from the villages, is what they were doing. Interviewer: Alright. So— Veteran: Or, trying to keep—let’s—they were trying to keep the venereal disease down. Interviewer: Right. But they weren’t doing anything in terms of jungle survival training or other stuff like that? Veteran: No, they didn’t do—no. That’s…Unfortunately, that’s on the job training. And you learn really quick. Interviewer: Alright. So, take us into Happy Valley then. Veteran: Yeah. Yeah, that was…That was where I got introduced to more mortar fire and small arms fire. It was a no-named operation. It was just—just a sweep. And it lasted 7 days. Maybe. 6 or 7. You lose track of time real easy. And we got into free fire fights. And we had to medevac 4 or 5, which wasn’t bad. Nobody was killed. We had 4 or 5 wounded. (00:46:32) Veteran: Never saw anybody that we killed. If we killed anybody. You know, it was just hard fire fight, stopped, and when we got over to the ground, sometimes you could see blood trails. Sometimes you couldn’t see anything at all. A blood trail would tell us okay, well at least we either wounded somebody or they carried away their dead. And they liked to carry away their dead so you don’t know what you’re getting. �Interviewer: Alright. Now, when they got into fire fights, would they then bring in artillery or air support? Or were you just the guys on the ground? Veteran: Sometimes the fire fight would start and finish so fast…A lot of people think, you know, if they see a battle on tv or something, they think it lasts for hours and…But a lot of times, the fire fight alone will, you know, it will only last for a minute or so or less sometimes. It is just like bang! And then it is done. Sometimes it did last a lot. We were in certain areas under certain conditions where you needed artillery, you needed helicopters to come in for—with their support. Our artillery was pretty good. And if you give them the correct coordinates, and emphasis on correct coordinates, they would hit and they would hit what you wanted them to hit. And it was—they were ready to help if you needed help. There was also a time where Snoopy came in and Snoopy was a 130 cargo jet [note: the C-130 was propeller driven] that was fitted with mini guns and just kind of like flew in the—flew around. I mean, he could hit anything you wanted. And each mini gun fired, I was told, 5000 rounds a minute. And there was one time where we were hunkering down waiting and it didn’t look good until all of a sudden out of this clear blue sky, here comes Snoopy and things changed dramatically then. It’s—he made all the difference in the world. (00:48:51) Interviewer: So, do you have kind of a fairly regular cycle then of going on short and long patrols? And so forth? Veteran: You didn’t know if it was going to be a long patrol or short patrol. There was—it would depend on contact, mostly. Because the goal of the Marines was to make contact and kill the enemy. So, you really didn’t know whether you were going to be out for 4 days or 4 weeks. I know I went on one operation that, actually, it strung out for a real long time. Went on one operation and we went up in the hills. They called it ‘hill.’ A 1275. It was a mountain. But we �had to climb to the top because the enemy was supposed to be on top of this hill and we were going to climb up there and take it. Well, it was muddy and the mud was clay. So, every time you got so far up, you would slide down and you actually had to grab ahold of vines and roots from trees in order to get yourself up. And it took us all day to get to the top of that hill. And thank God, there was nobody up there when we got up there. The worst casualty I had that day was in the middle of the night, a Marine got—woke up screaming because he got cramps in both his legs and he couldn’t stop it so I had to sit on him in order to straighten out his legs so we could relieve his cramps. And that was the worst part of the casualty. (00:50:35) Veteran: And it was cold and rainy. And when I say it’s cold, it had to have been about only 80 degrees. And believe me, it is amazing how you can shiver in 80 degrees. It was very cold. But we searched the place; found nothing. And they said, “Okay, we are going to take you off the hill.” And so, choppers came to pick us up and we are going to put you on another operation that’s in the Go Noi Island area. That was a—they called it Go Noi Island because it wasn’t really an island. It was usually dry and had a couple rivers running by it. But in a rainy season, they would flood and it would totally make it an island just during the rainy season. So, they called it Go Noi Island, or at least that’s what our powers to be did. And so, when we finally got down into the heat and we were relaxing a little bit, they said, “Okay, we are going.” And then we took off. And it turned out to be we were going to be—it was a search and destroy. We were going to sweep through 3 villages, relocate the people, and then we were going to destroy the villages. They were all confirmed VC. So, that’s what we started: we started sweeping in off of Liberty Bridge. Liberty Bridge was a bridge that was very—just southwest—I keep saying southwest but it was just southwest of Da Nang. I forgot the name of the river that we needed so �that we could cross into the Go Noi Island. And we started our sweep and we started and we took 3rd LVTs with us. These were like landing crafts, like ducks. (00:52:36) Interviewer: Yeah. Were they tracked? Veteran: Yep, with tracks. And so, they were with us with this sweep. And we started getting harassing mortar fire and small arms fire. And it was strictly harassing. And that happened all afternoon and stopped and started again about early evening. And they called in jets in order to drop some bombs. But it was kind of unusual this time because usually when they see the jets, you know they are running. This time, they were shooting back at the jets as they were diving down. You could hear the small arms fire going—and they weren’t going towards us. They were shooting at the jets as they were coming. And made us a little nervous because that was unusual. At least, we thought it was unusual. So, we weren’t sure what to expect. And the next day—well, we made camp, dug in, and then we picked up in the middle of the night with very little noise and moved about 200 yards away from where we were. And about 2 hours later, or a short time later, mortars just started dropping in on our old position. And the arc light—we must have had a pretty smart colonel that was leading us. And we went back to the area first the next day. We went back to our old area and in the foxhole that I had dug, a mortar blew up. And I tell you, I had cold chills going down my back. (00:54:30) Veteran: So, we started our sweep again. Picked up from where we left off. And we were getting close to the first village and we start receiving small arms fire. And so, there was a fire fight that lasted about 20-25 minutes when we finally got started into that first village. Didn’t find anybody. Saw some blood. Didn’t find anybody, not even villagers. And out there were animals and that. It was like everybody fled. And so, they burned all the hootches. And dropped explosive down the well to blow the well up. And burned anything that could be used as food or �whatever. And continued on with our sweep. We got to the outskirts of the second…Just—or, the outskirts of that first village and we ran into, the small group that I was with, we ran into a family that was hiding in a bomb shelter. And we had an interpreter with us. And they pulled them all out and they started questioning them and I just was kind of like watching what they were doing when we started getting fired upon. Our area, you know, we all hit the ground and scattered for whatever protection we could find. And I crawled next to a bush line. Usually you talk about tree line? Well, this was a bush line and a hedgerow. And I tried to get down as low as I could because the firing started coming in my direction. (00:56:20) Veteran: And I was on my back and I am trying to dig in like this with as far—to get down as low as I could. And I am right next to the hedge line. The bushes were hanging over my head. And it made it very difficult to see me. And—but that was still—shots were still coming in my direction. And I just happened to look up and I was—I have this leaf about this far over my nose. And I just kind of focused on it. And then it was gone. That’s how close they were coming. And the Marines—there was like 4 or 5 others with me that stayed to interrogate these people. And they started firing in all directions because they weren’t quite sure where it was coming from. And I shot—I was shooting my .45 just, you know, okay I might not hit anything but maybe the noise will scare them. And they were close enough to where you could hear them messing with their weapons. You couldn’t see them but they were close enough to where this one had his—it must have been an AK-47—because it was an automatic that was shooting. And as—it was jammed. And we rose up instantly and started leaving the area, running out of the area, which was a good thing because they were—we no more than got out of where we were, mortars were dropping in the area where we were and they were walking them up behind us. And we were running. Ended up running through a cemetery. Vietnamese, I was told, they bury their dead �sitting up. Most of the old ways, they bury their dead sitting up. And I don’t know the religious reasons why but their gravesites are about 3-4 feet, maybe 4 feet, in diameter. They are round. And maybe 18 inches high off the ground. (00:58:35) Veteran: And we were running through this cemetery and jumping over graves and these mortars are getting really close. And I just fell behind one of the graves and a mortar hit on the other side of the grave. Run my clock, so to speak, really well. And when I looked up, I think I passed out for a couple seconds. There was dirt everywhere. And I just decided I couldn’t hear. And—but it was all—it was too quiet. I couldn’t hear nothing. So, I got up and ran. Outran the mortars but I still couldn’t hear anything. I could see other Marines and that but I couldn’t hear them. And I couldn’t even hear myself talk. And a guy came up to me and he said, “Doc! Someone is hurt!” And I had to yell at him, “What?!” And then he had—he finally had to—knew it, and yelled back loud enough to where I heard muffled. My hearing was coming back but it was just…It was— really shook my hearing. So, he said, “No, there’s a—one of the guys got wounded. And he’s back where you came from.” So, I said, “You stay here. I don’t want to work on two guys.” So, I ran back through the mortars. And the guy had a sucking chest wound. He was laying on his— laying up against a small hill and when we got there, we checked him over and it was his left side. You could see the air bubbling out of his chest. (01:00:26) Veteran: And it sounds really serious. For first aid, it is a real easy fix. You just plug up the air loss where the air—you’re losing air in your body. And then, I did that with the plastic on a battle dressing and just tightened. Put a battle dressing on him really, really tight. You know. And made him lay on that side so he could breathe easier. And then we picked him up on his good arm and another corpsman had come up just at the same time. And he grabbed the other �arm and we ran through the mortars again until we could get safely—him safely—out of the way. But you couldn’t stay there. So… Interviewer: Alright. This tape is about up. Did you find that at least once you had your job to do, did things kind of go automatically? I mean, you shift out of your own shock or fear or whatever that was when you were first running away, now into something else? Veteran: Actually yeah, your training kind of like takes over. For us, the training was there is a guy that needs you. You got to get to him. And you forget about everything. What is going on around you. You just concentrate on one thing: you are going to get to that injured guy. Because seconds count. And so, you kind of put blinders on. And it’s kind of cute when you see these movies and they are running like this through battlefield explosions. No, you go in…It is a straight line and that’s it. You make a beeline and that is it. None of this kitty corner things. And it has always worked. I am here today to talk about it so it has worked. (01:02:22) Interviewer: Now after this particular point in the action, did things quiet down for a while or did this just keep going? Veteran: No, we—for the night, it was still. We still got—I medevaced—memory is not so good. Approximately 16 WIAs, Wounded In Action. And we had 4 dead. Interviewer: Now, was this a company-sized sweep or a battalion? Veteran: This was a battalion-sized sweep. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And I did not—I don’t know where, I didn’t know where, all the companies were. So, I am not sure exactly where they were but it was a whole battalion. Yes. And I believe it was 1-7. �1-2-7. Yeah, 1, 2, and 3 of the 7th Marines. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Battalion of the 7th Marines. And this was 2-7. And so that night, there was harassing mortar fire. Not so much small arms fire, just mortar fire. And one of the LVTs was extremely lucky. RPG, Rocket Propelled Grenade, went through—was fired—at one of these landing craft. And it actually went through one wall and out the other and blew up. And it went through just above where a guy was sleeping. And we thought we were going to have to medevac him just for his nerves because he was really shook up. And he was just lucky enough it went through. Usually, they will go through one wall and blow up. Interviewer: Yeah. (01:04:13) Veteran: But apparently, I think, this gook got close enough to where the momentum of the rocket just pushed it all the way through. And then blew up. Lucky for this guy. But that’s—that next morning, we started going into the second village. And the second and third villages were almost together. They were very close so you almost—looks like one huge one. But there was supposed to be two. And we started getting very hard fire. And again, so there was another fire fight. And it took us about 40 minutes to get into the village. And when we did get into the village, we killed 5 old men. 4 old men and 5 really old ladies. And these—I am talking like grandpas and that and didn’t look like they could have been the ones that were shooting at us. And they had them all lined up. And I saw this mother holding her baby, crying. And I thought she was probably crying for someone who had died. And I noticed that she was holding a baby. And the arm was kind of out flung like this and it wasn’t moving. So, I went over there and I took the baby from the mother and—to see if it was okay. And well…it wasn’t. It was—we killed this infant. Had to have been about no more than 2 days old. I didn’t need to, after I took �her, I knew she was dead. And that was really hard. That was…That was—we killed total innocents with this. There was no enemy here. (01:06:24) Interviewer: Now, were these casualties from bombardment or from small arms fire? Veteran: Small arms fire. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And I gave her—I gave the baby back to the mother and I tried to tell her that it was…I was sorry and—but she was just not paying attention to anything. She’s…just was crying full out then. And with—that baby has bothered me since that day. I had her blood all over my hands and my shirt. And that infant had a profound affect on me. Now, did I pull the trigger? No. But we were the ones that did it. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: And I didn’t really think it was going to be bothering me after I got out of Vietnam but it effected the way I—for my own kids, I couldn’t hold them when they were babies. I kept seeing this little girl. And that was really hard. That was exceptionally hard. I couldn’t believe we did this. And then, the Marines now are going through all the hutches—the hooches—and setting them on fire. They’re blowing up the wells. They are kicking over the food, collecting all—the villagers were in these villages and they were collecting all the people and putting them all over in one area where trucks were going to come and relocate them. And when we were doing this, what snapped me out of it a little bit…A Marine came up to me and said there was this little girl and she was really sick. (01:08:31) �Veteran: And this little girl was about 13. 12 or 13—something like that. She was young. And she had extreme pain in the lower right quadrant. And she had a fever and another corpsman was—came up at the same time that I was, or came with me—and we felt her and then I felt her lower quadrant and it was extremely hot. And the only thing that we could think of is her—she is having an appendicitis attack. And the way it feels, it is going to burst. So, I told a Marine that was nearby, “Go get an interpreter.” And we started getting her ready so we could get her a chopper in here for emergency medevac to get her to a hospital. And this mother is just fighting with us. She just knows we are going to do the worst things to her daughter and end up killing her. But we are—I showed her my—I tried to show her my caduceus to, you know. I wore it on the collar. It is a battlefield caduceus. It is black. But I tried to show her that. She didn’t understand. But we were—we were—we got a cot and put the baby, or the girl, down and we were going to just bring her over to a chopper once the chopper started coming. And we couldn’t find the interpreter. The guy was not coming so we said, “We got to get her over to the area where the chopper is coming.” So, we went over to the area and the mother is coming with us. And she’s crying and she is fighting with us. I got a Marine that is holding her, her arms pinned. And she is fighting with all she can with this guy to try to get her daughter. She just says— knew—that we were going to kill her. That’s all she thought. (01:10:31) Veteran: And then, to get to the landing zone, we went right by these 200 villagers. And they were old men, old women, young women, and kids. And it was unbelievable. They all thought the same thing. And they all started crying. And I mean, it was more like a wail. I mean, tears were just pouring out of their heads. They were screaming. And all we wanted to do was just try to save this little girl. And it was the hardest thing. It was surreal. I couldn’t believe what was going on. We finally got an interpreter. He was coming up as we were putting the girl on the �chopper and this mother, right now, still doesn’t know what’s going on. She is hysterical. And finally, it took about 10 minutes for this interpreter to convince this mother we were trying to help her rather than kill her. And she was so worried that when she goes, I will never see her again. And I looked at the crew chief, I said, “Mother is going too.” And so, we—then the mother really calmed down a lot when we got her into the chopper with her daughter. But that whole…there had to be close to 200 people there, and they are all crying. They think now we are going to kill the mother and the daughter. And it was like…That was a time where I felt like I am up here watching me down there do whatever I had to do. (01:12:23) Veteran: It was—I just couldn’t believe I was seeing what I was seeing. That was hard to take. Those poor villagers. They just knew we were going to…We were going to kill them. I mean, after all, hell, we just went in there and destroyed their livelihood. Why would they think we were doing something good? And so you know, I actually thought at that time, you know, if we are doing this, we are on the wrong side. We are supposed to be helping these guys and we are not making friends here. We are making enemies here. I really figured we were going to lose back in 1968 at that time. And this was early May. That—because we were fighting for the wrong people. It was a really hard time for me. Interviewer: Now, after—now does the operation then kind of wind down after that? Because you have got— Veteran: No, this operation finally got a name and it was called Allen Brook. Allen Brook… Apparently, Go Noi Island was an area where the North would like to build up troops. And we had heard then that they were going to hit Da Nang like they did Huế in a mini Tet when half the year, I guess it was, instead of New Year it was half the year. And they were going to hit Da Nang like they did Huế. And we actually went, accidentally, right into them. They—I think they �were surprised and we were surprised. Now, after we went through this village, we started going into the tree lines. And when we were approaching a tree line, we got in a horrendous fire fight. (01:14:27) Veteran: And I have to tell you at the time, the temperature in Allen Brook really had a strong effect on…It was hot. It was extremely hot. It was above—around 110 or hotter. And in some valleys, it got as hot as 120, I guess. At least that is what I was told. But when the guys would fall on the ground in order to protect themselves and shoot back, the heat would come up and hit them in the face and they would pass out. That fire fight lasted a good hour. I ended up medevacing 44 wounded and 16 dead. And that was just the start of it. We started getting harassing mortar attacks, constant ambushes. But we had good—the colonel that was in charge of that battalion actually called up division and said, “Is it okay? We will pull out. We are getting an awful lot of contact.” They said, “No, you cannot pull out just because of the contact. It is good contact. You’re going to stay.” And I was still in there for about 10 days. And it was constant fire. We would march in a line and when we were coming up to a tree line or a hedgerow, we would get ready as best you could. And because when we got close enough, we were going to get into a fire fight. (01:16:21) Veteran: They had control of the ground area. They had caves everywhere. They knew the whole layout of the land and it was all…You know, we are here for the first time, like…And we weren’t fighting just the VC, we were fighting NVA soldiers. And they knew what they were doing. We—about the 4th…Time screws things up. After that fire fight, I medevaced all those guys. There was 9 corpsmen that started that operation with me. And we were down to 2. And there was a corpsman that had more time in country than I. He and I were talking and decided that okay, if he sees me going after a guy, he stays back. Or if I see him going after a guy, he �stays back because if we both go, until we get more relief and more corpsmen in here, we are the only 2. And we also made it a pact that as soon as everything was quiet, he and I would check all the wounded, just to make sure they were going to be good before—they would still be alive when the choppers came to get them out. And we went and were checking the wounded towards—it was like late afternoon, about this light out. It had about 3 hours of light left in the day and everything had quieted down so we were checking the wounded before the choppers came to lift them off. And I walked up to this one guy and he had both legs blown off above the knees. It was all in shreds from about mid-thigh down. And I immediately went to the tourniquets and, unfortunately, I could slide my hand under one and so I tightened them up like they should have been, as tight as I could get them on both of them. (01:18:42) Veteran: And checked his pulse. He wasn’t…I could feel a pulse but very faint. But he wasn’t doing good. And I called over for the other corpsman and I said, “Check his pulse. I think I felt one. I am not sure.” That is how light it was. “And I don’t feel it.” And so, we started CPR on him right away because I felt again and I might have felt my own pulse because I really pressed hard into his neck in order to feel it. And so, we started CPR on him. I was doing the heart and he was doing the breathing. And after a while, we switched because I was getting tired. And another Marine came up and was also helping us as best that he could. And I said, “You got to breathe for him for a little bit because we got to do a cutdown. We got to try and get some blood into him.” And—or, blood expanders. And that’s all we had. And I tried to get a vein and I couldn’t find a vein anywhere. And I—the other corpsman said, “Maybe we should do a cutdown.” Which is—we would take a scalpel and slice his arm here and then find a vein that way. And then put the needle in the vein. And so, that’s exactly what I did and I still couldn’t find a vein. I cut him really deep and I couldn’t find the vein. And he died. I don’t know if he �was dead already but he had to have been…I wanted so bad to find the guy that put the tourniquet on. I wanted to kill him. I know the guy was trying to save him. But you really got to put a tourniquet on good. (01:20:39) Veteran: You’re going to hurt the person to stop that blood. And you know, it was like we worked on this guy. It was dark, just about dark, by the time we stopped working on this guy. And I never felt more down in all my life. Interviewer: Now, did they get you out after that? Veteran: Because he…Hmmm? Because he…They count on you to save them. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: You know? I mean…And it is really hard when you can’t. I don’t remember the guys I saved. I remember the guys I lost. So, it was a pretty bad time. In fact, I was so low I…We were going back to our little area where we were going to spend the night and a guard yelled out, “Who goes there?” And I said, “Well, if you’re really good, you can shoot 2 corpsmen.” And I didn’t—at that time, I didn’t care if he shot me or not. That’s how bad I felt. But the next day, it is…There is going to be somebody that is going to need you. So, you just kind of like suck it up. That’s what you do. And that’s what I did. I sucked it up. And—because the next day wasn’t any better than the last. And we were in constant fire fights for going back and forth on that island. That’s all we did. We went from east to west and west to east. And got in all kinds of fire fights. Got in mortar attacks. And they finally decided, you know, these landing craft are pretty damn good targets. Why don’t we send them out of here. And so, they sent them out of here. 2 hours later we get a call—they get a call—on the radio saying that they got hit. (01:22:43) �Veteran: They’re in an ambush, they need help. So, we dropped everything. We have tanks with us so we are running behind the tanks in all this heat. And it takes us almost 2 hours to get to them. And once we link up—well, the ambush wasn’t for them. Interviewer: Oh… Veteran: The ambush was for us. They just kept going at them until we came and they had everything zeroed in. And when the mortars came down, it was direct hit all over the place. And it was in the middle of a dried-out rice paddy. And everybody is going for cover and I am going for cover. And I fall on my knees and I am going into a dike to get as close to the bottom of the dike as I could to get as much protection. And a mortar went off on the other side and I am on my knees and the next thing I know I am shaking my head and I am facing the other direction. It felt like someone had taken a baseball bat and hit me in the face. Well, I got a piece of shrapnel right here. And I was extremely lucky it didn’t go through my eye and into my brain. So…But I am bleeding really good. And I am really dazed and I don’t know what is going on yet. And I got one of my Marines yelling, “Corpsman!” So, I turn around and he’s working on some guys that are wounded. And he looks at me and says, “No, stay there. It’s okay.” (01:24:26) Veteran: And I just…I finally came to my senses and just said—I just said, “Fuck it.” And I grabbed my unit 1, which is the first aid kit. In the Navy, that is what we call our aid kits, is unit 1s. And I grabbed my unit 1 and went to the wounded, who turned out to be my lieutenant who was out there in the field with me. And I am working on him and he got up wounded and he is in shock and his right arm. And I am working on him and he is not—he’s out. He’s not with it at all so he had to have had part of a concussion or at least a severe concussion at the time. And I am just getting a battle dressing on and they start walking in mortars again and there is no place to go because I can’t leave him and he can’t go. So, I spread my flak jacket out and I lay over on �top of him and just covered my—I had my helmet on—and just covered it up like this. And stayed that way and got lucky nothing was…No shrapnel anywhere. And so, he started coming around finally and I finished the battle dressing on. And I figured okay, I am going to have to carry him. So, I start to pick him up and the mortars start coming in again. So, I lay him back down and I go right back over on top of him, just like I did before. It’s a 50/50 chance: 50% you could get hit, 50% you can’t. Well, I was on the good side again so when the mortars started letting up, I started to go to pick him up and he opened up his eyes and he said, “Doc!” which was a good sign. And I said, “Yeah, we got to get the hell out of here.” And I got him on his feet and put his good arm around my shoulder and around his waist and we got to a safer place. We…At the same time, there were 14 other wounded, 2 of which were very bad. And we had a really hard time stopping their bleeding. (01:26:42) Veteran: In fact, we stopped the—both of them were leg wounds. And one, his arm was almost tore off. And we got the bleeding stopped once and then it just started up again. And so, we worked hard and really had to almost put a tourniquet on him. His leg. But we got it stopped. The battle dressing—let’s just say the battle dressing was extremely tight. And I was wounded. And a chopper came in and picked up the other guys and I was putting them on, you know, and that other corpsman said, “Get on the chopper.” I said, “Get on the chopper?” He said, “Get on the chopper! We got 2 guys down there that if that bleeding starts again, they’re going to die and you’re wounded. So, get on the chopper.” And so, I was medevaced to the hospital. In fact, I helped the other corpsmen once we landed at the hospital. They come rushing into help you and I helped them carry these guys in on stretchers. I had one guy—he checked my face. He said, “Damn! You’re lucky. Another quarter of an inch and that would have gone right through.” I said, “Tell me. Yeah, I know. I was really lucky.” I didn’t feel really lucky. But I guess I really �was. And I wanted to get back out in the field. Okay, I did what I was supposed to do. So, I was going to spend the night at this hospital. And this is the hospital that was near Marble Mountain. (01:28:34) Veteran: Extremely safe. The bunkers there—a rocket could hit on top of them and you would just get dust. I mean, they were that strong. And we were…I was going to spend the night there at the hospital. Well, they started getting rocketed. And I got in a bunker and I was—it was a bunker that I was all by myself. It was pitch black in there. Or at least, I thought I was all by myself. And I am leaning up against the wall with my legs crouched up and my arms around my legs because I couldn’t—I was holding myself so tight, I couldn’t stop shaking. And I wanted to stop shaking. And I felt…bad because I was shaking. I felt like a coward because I was…I was that afraid. I was just glad that nobody could see what I was doing. I mean, I was humiliated. I couldn’t…You know, I had to stop shaking. Well, I stayed there the whole night. And about dawn the next morning, I climbed out of the bunker and went to the road and hitchhiked. Picked up a truck, or the truck picked me up. And I said, “I want to go to 4th Shore Party by Freedom Hill. Can you get me there?” “Yeah, no problem. Going that way anyway.” And he drops me off. And I walk in—I am walking into my battalion area—and they are all looking at me. They are all surprised to see me because word came in, they radioed it in, I was medevaced out, shrapnel to the face. And the first thing you think of if you got shrapnel to the face, like half his face is gone. (01:30:42) Veteran: And my doctor had to look at me, the doctor that’s in charge of the brigades, and he said, “You’re really lucky.” I was finally getting to the point, “Yeah, I was really lucky.” And I said, “I just—I got to get back out to the field. There is only one guy there, one other corpsman, and we need more.” So, they rustled up an ambulance and brought me to Hill 55. That’s where �this operation was jumped off at. And that’s where all the supply choppers came and that’s where we put all the supplies on. So, I waited for a CH-46 to come in, which is a banana shaped helicopter, and I hitched a ride back out there when they were bringing supplies. And the first thing everybody that I was with, they looked at me and said, “What the hell are you doing back out in this field?” I said, “Well, we are needed.” And we started joking around and the tank was moving in the back. And I—maybe 50-60 yards away all of a sudden, a huge explosion. And I looked up and I saw the tank up like this. And it came back down. So, I grabbed my unit 1 and I went over there. Someone was going to be hurt. Well, other than concussions, which we medevaced them out for because some of the bleeding was coming out their ears and they were bleeding through the nose, and a lot of them had bumps and bruises. We med—the crew of 4, we medevaced 2 of them. The other 2 were bumped up but they were okay. And we really felt that these guys got to get out of here. So, we shipped them off. (01:32:31) Veteran: And I went back to the guys and I said, “See? That’s why I am here.” They were a good bunch of guys. They always looked out for me. And one of the guys names that I do remember, and I will tell you why later, his name was Pool. Melvin Pool. He was an extremely close friend. And well, he ended up dying later. And he would—he was going to make sure that I had my hole dug first. When we stopped for the night, I would go around and check everybody; make sure that they had their salt pills, their malaria stuff. I would make—if we were going through water, I would check their feet, make sure that they didn’t have immersion foot or anything else that was wrong. And he would be—his hole—my hole was dug first and then he would dig his. We did everything. When we were on the mine sweep teams, we would play poker together. I mean, we’d spend up nights, just talking. Interviewer: So, he was a guy actually in your unit or in your— �Veteran: He was. He was with 4th Shore Party. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: Yeah. He was one of the guys that used to go out in the field with me. And he was a super nice guy. And about this time, the Marine Corps had started another operation and it was in close to the same area. In fact, the operations were so close, I wasn’t sure if I was on Allen Brook and this other operation, which was named Mameluke Thrust. And both these operations were so close and in the same area. Both of them were in…I guess you could say that when Allen Brook was winding down, Mameluke Thrust was picking up. (01:34:31) Veteran: And this one, Mameluke Thrust, was really in Thuong Duc Province. And that’s where Happy Valley is. And apparently, they were—we thought at Go Noi Island, it was what they were going to hit, Da Nang. Well, it wasn’t. It was Thuong Duc area where they were building up to hit Da Nang. And it just, it was the same thing: it was one fire fight after another. It was mortar attacks. It was always harassing. It would be a voracious fire fight. And then there wouldn’t be anything. I finally got relieved, only because of my brother. He’s got—he had malaria. And I—the only reason I got relieved was I got this call saying, “You better get back and see your brother. He’s got malaria.” So, they relieved me. And I’d go in and I’d see my brother at the malaria ward. And he tells me that, “I am glad that—I knew you were in a lot of shit,” he said. “Your guys from your battalion came over here to see you and the only Jakubczak they had in the hospital was in the malaria ward and they are telling all these people that he came in here with shrapnel to the face. And he—they finally brought him to the malaria ward and told him we are looking for a Jakubczak with your—a guy with your last name.” And he said, “Is that Dick?” Because that’s what he always called me. And they said, “Yeah.” He said, “That’s my �brother.” So, they searched that hospital from top to bottom, including the morgue. They were looking for me. And I didn’t tell anybody hey, I was leaving. I just left. (01:36:26) Veteran: And so, I went and saw him. He said, “Don’t worry about it.” He said, “When I knew you went back, I figured you were okay so I wrote the folks at home. I said, ‘Dick got hit with shrapnel to the face but don’t worry about it; he’s okay.’” My older brother was like that. I had to write a letter to say, ‘Yes, it was a very small piece of shrapnel. You can’t even see it where it hit my face. So, don’t worry about me.’ In other words, they would have been worried too. But from there, I went back and forth to either Mameluke Thrust or Allen Brook. Because they gave me a few days off and then I went back and I joined another corpsman that usually went out like that. His name was—his nickname was Mississippi. And—because he was from Mississippi. Now, he was an old Hillbilly. Tough old bird too. And he and I stayed together for a few more days and then he finally said, “Okay, you have had enough. You come back. Mississippi is taking over.” Because I had been in the field from end of April all the way through—this was in June. And so. they decided to give me some rest. So, I went back on the mine sweep team. And you—we considered that light duty. And it really was light duty. And we are sweeping the road and it was an unusual morning: no people were around. (01:38:23) Veteran: And usually, when we are going through the end of the village that we passed through every time, we carried fruit for the kids. And the kids would be out there begging for it. They weren’t out there, which made us really, really nervous. And so, we kind of like spread things out a little bit, got further apart, and started our sweep and we were on Highway 1. And we got to this one area where it was a lot of trees and shrubs on the one side and rice paddy on the other. And then, out of the blue like, small arms fire opened up. And 7 guys dropped. And that left me and the radioman. I don’t know why they didn’t get the radioman but they left him and he was �calling for help and I am dragging 1 Marine off the road to the other side for cover. And I grab his M-16 and I am shooting into the woods. Some of the other wounded Marines were shooting into the woods as they crawled off to the other side of the road, because it dropped down and it gave us protection. And the radioman was shooting into the woods as well. And we are all down there and it was just luck that there was a reactionary platoon forming up at the battalion area that was further up the road, no more than ¾ of a mile away. And they were already there. The trucks were there and I think they were there within 5 minutes, or less. And it seemed like 4 hours. A long time. Well, it could have been a whole day but it was only about 5 minutes. And they came in, started spraying the woods, and it was over. There was nothing, you know. (01:40:26) Veteran: And I started working on the wounded. And they came out and I don’t know if we got them or they got them because there was so much shooting. They came in and said, “Hey, we got 4. And got their IDs right here.” They were pulling them out and I said, “Holy crap.” I said, “They were young.” They said, “Yeah, their IDs say they are 11 and 12-year-olds.” Interviewer: Wow. Veteran: And when they opened up, they had AK-47s and they just—I mean, 7 men dropped, just like that. And I don’t know why I wasn’t hit. And I am sure the radioman doesn’t know, especially, doesn’t know why he wasn’t hit. And he’s talking on the radio. So, after that, it was quiet. Then it was a little nicer. But we—afterwards, the guys and I were playing pool, or poker, and because some of them were wounded and went down but they—we just patched them up and they stitched them up and they came back. And we are playing poker. I said, “So much for light duty.” It wasn’t light—it wasn’t so, there was no light duty there for anybody, I don’t think. Yeah, go ahead. �Interviewer: Now, does this…Do things wind down at a certain point? I mean, you had these larger operations that are ongoing. You are dealing with major concentrations of enemy forces but eventually those enemy groups normally will get shot up or leave. Does that calm things down or does it just continue with more of the same? (01:42:12) Veteran: For those, it did calm things down. But those were the two major operations that I was…The biggest. And I think it was the largest in I Corps in 19—for 1968. At least for the Marines that I was with. I guess it turned out that we were supposed to have killed, at the end of those operations, just Allen Brook, we killed 917 of the enemy. We had 187 killed and 1100—a little over a 1100 wounded. And then I think…I know I medevaced when it came to heat. And either heat, it was insect bites, it was—could have been illness. Or somebody just fell and broke a leg or whatever. I think we medevaced of them—had to have been—about another 200. So, I would say that Allen Brook was by far, for me, it was the largest operation I had ever been on. And it lasted, actually, it lasted all the way, I believe, to the end of July. And I wasn’t with it the whole time but and I think Mameluke Thrust started early June and went into October. And Mameluke Thrust killed almost as many Vietnamese as what we did. The other operations that I was on in company sweeps weren’t terribly bad. I mean, you’d medevac a few wounded, maybe 1 or 2 dead sometimes. Maybe no dead, just wounded. I know I medevaced a lot on different sweeps from just heat. (01:44:12) Veteran: There was one time where guys were passing out in the shade. We couldn’t go anymore and so they just said, “Sit down, drink water, and we are going to wait until when the sun goes down to leave.” And the guys were passing out. So, the only way I could cool them down is, luckily there was a river right where we were, was to immerse them in the water totally. So, everything was covered but their face. And I had the Marines, the other guys, holding the guys �up to keep them that way. And I had other Marines hitting the water with sticks because the water was full of water snakes and they are a very curious snake; not necessarily aggressive but very curious. And these guys are knocking the water like this. I medevaced 14 guys that afternoon just from the heat. It was either heat—most of it was heat stroke, a little bit of heat exhaustion, but out of the guys, there had to have been 10 heat strokes. And that’s unusual because you started drinking water in the morning and you, you know, as long as you could get water, you drank it. On one of the sweeps that I was on…And this—these are company sweeps. And so, you don’t really run into—if you’re by, you know, a company by itself doesn’t—isn’t really looking to see a run into a battalion or anything. But we are sweeping the hills and the captain that was leading us said, “We are going to go through a Montagnard village. So, pay respect. They are our allies and they like Americans a lot.” So, we got up to the village and it was really quiet. (01:46:04) Veteran: And we saw bodies laying around. And then we saw arms and we saw heads and we saw parts of legs. The North didn’t like the Montagnards. And I don’t know if they were trying to make an example of them. But they had hacked the whole village apart. I said—it sounds like there was 40 of them…villagers. Men, women, and children. And that was surreal. One of the guys said, “Don’t they believe they have to be whole? They got to be, in order to get into their heaven. They have to be all together.” And so, we spent the next, I don’t know, it was a while. A couple hours maybe, picking up pieces and parts and matching them up with…So they would be all together. That was hard. You’re walking around and you got this young kid’s arm in one hand and you got this one older guy’s leg in the other. And you’re walking up to them and you’re going—the way you’re doing it is by the way they were hacked so if it matched it, it was close. It might not have been the right one but if it was hit the same way, we put them together. And �picked up their heads and put them in place. And just had them all lined up in a straight row. And we left. (01:48:15) Interviewer: That’s— Veteran: That was hard. Interviewer: Yeah. That’s pretty ghastly. Veteran: Yeah. Interviewer: You heard it told by many good guys out there. Yeah. Veteran: But you know, that…We shouldn’t have…I don’t believe we should have been there in the first place. Maybe. Interviewer: Yeah. Well, that is sort of a hard call to make. But it is important to know kind of what goes on. And that…Certainly, the North and the Viet Cong had had their share of travesties. Veteran: They must have hated them. Interviewer: And more deliberately, you know, than most of anything we came up with. And that goes on too. And so yeah, you run into that. Now, do you spend your whole year in Vietnam, kind of continuing to walk through these things? Do they give you any breaks of any length or any R and R or anything like that? Veteran: R and R. Went to Bangkok. Greatest place I ever went, only because it was out of Vietnam. I came off one operation and I walked into the aid station. I just looked up at the chief and I said, “Get me out of the country.” I mean, I had had it. And he said, “I will see what I can do.” Came back, he said, “You want to wait 7 days, you can go to Australia.” And I said, “No. �get me out of this country.” He said, “You got it.” And they did. I don’t know how they did it. They got me a Marine green uniform because the corpsman can do that. They’re the only MOS in the military that can wear Marine greens or Navy blues. And they got me a whole uniform, a green Marine uniform, so I would be dressed the part to go on R and R. And went to the airport. Everything was done. This was like 2 days they did that. And went to the airport and this is how naïve I was: pot. The guy said, “You’re going to Bangkok. You get caught with pot in Bangkok, you’re going to go to jail for 10-15 years.” (01:50:41) Veteran: “No if, ands, or buts. You’re going to jail. We are going to put this basket in the room and turn the lights down. And then we are going to come back in about a minute and then you’re going to be on your own and no buts. We see pot, you don’t have to worry about a thing. Nothing will be done.” He did that and I got to tell you, he filled a whole bushel basket up with pot. I didn’t—I have never smoked my entire life. So, I didn’t have any pot. I was flabbergasted there was that much there. But then we went to Bangkok. I had a great time. Got away from the damn country, Vietnam, for 5 days and I was amazed. I went to a movie there and they tell you that at the end of the movie, they are going to show you a picture of the king and queen, then they are going to play their national anthem. You will not leave that theater early. And you will stand and give the proper salute that is needed. So, I was amazed. I was—I watched this dumb movie. It was 2000—2001, I believe. Interviewer: Space Odyssey? Veteran: Yes! Space Odyssey. And it was—it took me away from everything I wanted. That was the nice part. But at the end of the movie, I just, I purposely was watching to see if anybody was going to leave early. And they went through all the credits; nobody moved. And right at the last, �bam! There was a picture of the king and queen. Everybody stood up, they played the national anthem, their national anthem, and then we left. (01:52:34) Veteran: That was kind of—I mean, I was amazed at that. I said, “If they said, you know, we are going to play the national anthem at the end of a movie here in the United States, there wouldn’t be a seat that was occupied in that movie theater.” But that? Nobody moved. Nobody wanted to. It’s amazing. Bangkok has got some beautiful sights. Like the reclining Buddha. It’s like 100 feet long. And they had a Buddha that is maybe this high. Solid jade. Beautiful temples. Interviewer: Now, how far into your tour was the R and R? Veteran: This was around July. June: end of June. No, when I came out of the field, I said, “Get me out.” And so, I was kind of relaxed when I came back. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: Everybody is. Interviewer: Now, what was it like to have to go back? Veteran: You were fine. Everybody was, on the plane, was, you know, bullshitting and yelling and screaming and talking. Having a good old time. When you got about halfway home…Well, I don’t know what to call it; you’re not home. When you got about halfway back, it started quieting down. And when you were landing, it was dead silence. Because we knew what we were going to get into. Interviewer: Now, you went back to the same place that you left from and your unit it still there? �Veteran: That was continuing. Actually, in Allen Brook and Mameluke Thrust, I ended up going. I was on both those operations twice. Interviewer: So, you get to rejoin them while they are still— Veteran: Yep. I got lucky enough to be on both of them twice. (01:54:15) Interviewer: Did you get to a point where a lot of this was sort of routine or it kind of ran together? Or…was it always sort of different? Veteran: It is always different. The wounds were always different. The ambushes were kind of always different. I did get really down on Mameluke Thrust. I actually wrote home to my wife. I had a son that was 4 months old when I went to Vietnam. And I didn’t have any letters, letter writing paper and that, so they would—told us that they would mail anything; as long as you had the address on it, they would mail it. So, I took a C ration box and I was, I don’t know, I was really down. And I wrote a letter of goodbye to my son because I really felt that I wasn’t going to make it. I told him that I was sorry that I wasn’t going to be there to see him grow up. I never knew…I don’t know what happened to it because I put it in my pocket and I knew that they would find it because they check your bodies when you’re killed. And they would send it. That’s what I was figuring. But it wasn’t to be. It wasn’t to be. And it was constant like that. The mine sweep was nice. It was kind of—this was kind of fun. I am on the mine sweep team. And this is in end of…in July. I was on the mine sweep team and we were watching—they get the movies in at the battalion area—and we were watching To Sir, with Love. And watched the whole thing. Everybody is sitting around in the sand, having a good time. And they said, “No! Play that last song over again.” So, To Sir, with Love. So, they backed the film up and they started showing that and we started getting sniper fire from everywhere. And we all started running to our �hooches to get our weapons and stuff. And we are all looking at—we made the comment, “They must not have liked the movie.” (01:56:38) Interviewer: Right. Veteran: So, we are—everybody is in the holes all around because everybody is at 100%. So, the whole perimeter is chocked full of guys. And this is at 3rd LVTs. And on one side of 3rd LVTs is Marble Mountain and a village and on the other side is a beach. And we were at 100% that whole night. And off the beach usually came—there was a morning mist or early fog that was…usually hung around. And my hole happened to have been on the beach side. And early in the morning, the mist was there as usual only it started to lift a little earlier. I think it was just a little warmer and it started to lift. And you could see little…you could just barely see little dots out there. And they have reed boats that are about 4 feet in diameter. They are round. And in each one of those boats were 3 men. And they were like 40 or 45, something like that, of them. And I just all of a sudden heard .30 caliber machine guns opening up. And because, that mist had gotten raised a little bit too quickly and their surprise was not a surprise and they were just sitting ducks. And I think there was 60 bodies washed up on shore. And it was…there was no worry. I mean, everybody opened up. When those .30 calibers started shooting, it was…it wasn’t really a battle. It was really a massacre. They could shoot back but there was no place for them to go and there was no cover. And that morning, we had 60 bodies. It was one of the easiest fire fights that I was in. And no wounded. Nobody on our side got scratched. And—which was even the best thing in the world. (01:58:50) Interviewer: Now as this is all going on, what would you say the morale in the units you were serving with was like? Both your own and the ones you were attached to? �Veteran: The morale with the Marines was always high. I have never seen it low. If you’re in with a group of guys, there is always going to be one out of the group that is going to say something, that is going to crack everybody up. And you could be all morbid but that one guy is going to do something, somehow, and it is going to be laughter and…I think it is normal. It is okay. It…The Marine Corps? I have never seen anybody get low. Even in the battlefield, when you are putting your friends away. They were there to do a job. And the Marine Corps is very, very good at doing their job. It—the last operation I was on, it turned out to be mostly a really long walk, which was fine. We started off at midnight and we walked until, humped, until noon. Had a 10-minute lunch then we—then it was about 6 pm. And we were going to split up. (02:00:28) Veteran: And the guys that I—2 of the guys that I was with—said, “Hey! Come on with us.” They were going to go up and over a hill. And I said, “No. I’ll see you on the other side.” I wanted to take the easy route. Well, those 2 guys that went there, one was named Parker and the other one was named Melvin Pool. And we heard the explosion. It was a 250-pound mine. And Pool was…Mel was killed instantly. And Parker was…He was the one that tripped it. And he lived about 3 days. Never regained consciousness, but he lived for about 3 days. And I just keep thinking why? If I would have gone there, maybe I could have done something. Maybe they wouldn’t have tripped the booby trap. And those words are really unique: I’ll see you on the other side. And it’s hard because you are…you feel guilty you didn’t go with them. And why didn’t I go with them? Well, I didn’t want to hump the hill. I just spent 18 hours humping and I wanted to do the easy route. But…couldn’t be there to help them. I wanted to. There were times where I wanted to. I would have died with them, easily. And it wouldn’t have mattered to me one bit. (02:02:24) �Interviewer: How much time did you have left when that happened? Veteran: This was September. Latter part of September. They only—they kept me on mine sweep team after that. I would go back to my regular battalion area for a while. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: And they would then send me back to a…the sweep team. They didn’t…They said, “Nah, you did your share. You don’t need to go out in the field anymore.” And October and November and December mostly was a sweep team. Interviewer: Now by this time, had the personnel in your unit pretty well turned over with men rotating in and out? Or were there still guys that you had served with all along? Veteran: Oh, I am glad you asked that question. We had a Nicky New Guy who thought he knew everything. And you do. If you’re a corpsman, you have to think that way. Interviewer: Alright. We have kind of gotten toward the later stages of your tour. I’ve got a couple of kind of broader questions to ask. I mean, I have kind of asked about unit morale and things. Was there a difference in atmosphere between being in a base camp someplace and being up at the front lines, in terms of just attitudes of people or how they behaved? Veteran: I think that if you talk with most military guys, they would prefer the field versus being in the camp. You had to play soldier in the camp. You were a soldier in the field. And there is a big difference between the two. It was all spit and polish back at the base camp where you were doing what you were supposed to, what you were trained to do, in the field. And especially with the Nicky New Guys. (02:04:29) �Veteran: Nicky New Guys were…We called them FNGs. And they were a lot of fun. They were just as gung-ho as hell. We had this one that, he was 18 almost 19, but he was still 18 and he was going to go on his first operation. So, myself and 2 other corpsmen that had been on a lot of operations, we are telling him what to do and what not to do. One of the things was at night, when the mortars are going off, you stay in your hole. The guys will still be there and you’ll still be able to work on them after they stop. Don’t get out of your hole; it is the safest place to be. Well, he goes on this overnight operation and they get mortared. And someone yells, “Corpsman!” and he just gets up and takes off. Well, he gets hit with a piece of shrapnel and he gets hit with a piece of shrapnel in the head of the penis. And the body is a wonderful thing: everything went numb. He didn’t feel any pain but it bleeds a lot. So, you think you are dying. And he gets medevaced. He gets into the hospital and the first thing they do with wounds is debride them. They scrub them with a scrub brush. Unfortunately for him, the numbing went. They had to numb him with shots in order to make sure that he was going to be—he could take it. Well, the long story short, he thought he was—he didn’t even have sex yet—and he ended his sex life in Vietnam. And there is nothing there but nerves and they are still alive and it is mostly up here in your head. But you couldn’t convince this guy of it. And we gave him so much shit. We asked him if you wanted us to change his battle dressings. (02:06:39) Veteran: And as it turned out, it took about 4 weeks and finally healed. And he’s looking at one of these Playboy magazines in the crap room and he gets a hard on. And he tells everybody in the whole camp. He goes walking—he even told our commanding officer he got a hard on. Oh my God, was that embarrassing. He was—but it was not—we knew that he was going to be fine. That the only reason why nothing was working the way he wanted it to was because it was still �healing. And but, we made him pay for that the whole time. Told him, “Next time, you will listen. You will stay in your hole until it is done and then go take care of the wounded.” Interviewer: Yeah. So, you had a fair number of new guys coming because they were rotating men in and out all the time? Veteran: Yes. You are always…We came in individually. We left individually. And throughout that whole time, people are coming and going. I think there was…They probably left a month after I did. The 5th Marines came in and took part of 4th Shore Party. 5th Shore Party became 4th Shore Party. We occupied the same place because they didn’t have any other place to put them. And I think there was a couple of guys there that they came in country 30 days after I did and they were still there. But in between, the guys that were there when I showed up, they were all gone. And when I left, I was the oldest. I had the most seniority. (02:08:31) Interviewer: Right. Now, in principle, part of what they thought they were doing was you’d always have a veteran element on the ground. When you rotate the new man in, they could learn from the older ones and so forth. And so, you’d be able to maintain morale and unit performance and so forth. How well do you think that actually worked in practice? Veteran: Not worth a crap. Being honest with you. That works very well if you keep the guys there and the veterans are going to be there the same—the whole duration. When you send someone in individually, like they did us, you go through stages. And I think the first stage is you want to get in and blend in and be like the other guys. Then you become a veteran, either going—go out in the field once, you become a veteran. In about…You work well with others for about a few months. And I think from about 6 months on, then you—something clicks in the back of your head and it says, “You are over the hump. You got, you know, you’re on your way �down. All you have to do is survive.” And unfortunately, I think that’s what the vets, the veterans, the guys that knew what they were doing because they did it, started thinking: “I don’t care what I got to do. I am going to survive this. I am going to get the hell out of here.” And you did. Did it make me hesitate to go get a guy? No. But did I think about my own safety? You bet. Matter of fact, every man did, I think. (02:10:18) Interviewer: Now, did you keep an actual calendar for yourself and count days down? Veteran: Everybody kept a short-timer’s calendar. Mine was this nice little lady up there. Colored a little circle each time and she was fully covered by the time you left. Everybody had a short-timer’s calendar. Interviewer: Alright. Now, you mentioned sort of being back in the rear area and so forth. The spit and polish stiff, did you have officers or sergeants or whatever who got on your case if you didn’t look right or do something properly? Or…? Veteran: Medical is a little bit different. You still had to be reasonably, you know, spit and polish. But they kind of left medical people alone. We were there to treat them. They didn’t want to hassle us because they may have to come and see us one day. And so, I guess we were kind of lucky that way. In fact, when we—when I did fly back and landed in Okinawa to get shipped out, this gunny sergeant—we are all standing up—he said, “Attention!” And we all just look at him. “Attention!” and we just looked at him. He said, “Guys, I know you just came back,” he said, “But this is the States now and you got to do it. So, come on.” He was nice about it and he must have gone through several times. And so okay, then we did the soldier thing for him. But once I got back to Great Lakes, it was…They just want…It was spit and polish because you were in the Navy; back in the Navy. �Interviewer: Yeah. (02:12:06) Veteran: You had to wear the shine—your shoes didn’t have to be spit shined but they had to shine. And your clothes better have been looking pretty good. Interviewer: Alright. Now back in Vietnam, you had mentioned at one point when you were heading off to R and R, guys all started to produce their pot and so forth. Did you notice much by way of actual drug use in the places where you were? Veteran: Not where I was. I had heard that later in the latter part, in the mid ‘70s, they started really heavily. And I know they had problems with it but no, nobody…When you went in the field, you were cold stone sober because you needed to be cold stone sober. Nobody went—there is no such thing as a hallucination out in the battlefield. And you would not stand for it if anybody else was like that. He could get you killed. And you wouldn’t allow that. Interviewer: yeah. Now, would that go on if you were back on a base some place? Would there be…would you smell pot or were there guys lighting up or things like that? Or…? Veteran: Not…Actually, you know, no. Most of the Marines that I was with, at least in 1968, they were…We were drinkers. We had an enlisted men’s club that we could—you could drink beer. Now, they didn’t allow—the officers did not allow the enlisted to have liquor, hard liquor. They could get the beer but they couldn’t get the liquor. Interviewer: Yeah. Veteran: The Navy, however, especially Naval corpsmen, could get the liquor. Interviewer: Yeah. �Veteran: And when they got their monthly shot, or ration cards, they had a place for liquor on there. Well, they would give us that part of the ration card with the money and we would go and buy the liquor for them. Our ambulance would be full. There was only one requirement: we got one bottle off every case. And we had a well-stocked liquor cabinet, let me tell you. And they kind of—the officers really didn’t—if you got caught with it, you were in trouble. But they didn’t go looking for it. And most of the time, the guys spent their time in the enlisted club with Schlitz or Miller High Life or Budweiser. (02:14:35) Interviewer: Right. Okay, because you are also there—you are in Vietnam. You get through ’68 and ’68 is a pretty dramatic year back at home at the same time. You have Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy assassinated, you have race riots, you have the Democratic convention, you have all of this stuff going on. Were there any echoes or reverberations of any of that where you were? Veteran: I was going out in—we were going out in operations. We were in the back of a 6 by [6X6 truck] heading out when word came down that Martin Luther King was killed. And that was a shock for all of us, not just the guys who happened to have been black, but for all of us. I didn’t notice any repercussions. And again, they might have looked at me differently because I was medical. That I don’t know but I didn’t see it from across the way. When you go out in the field, one thing is going to happen: I am going to cover your back and you’re going to cover my back. And I’ll tell you what, I treated a lot of wounded and it’s all red. Their blood. And that’s the way they looked at it. You are brothers when you are out there. There’s no such thing as black and white when you’re out there. It was I will cover your back, you cover mine. �Interviewer: Okay. You get to the end of your—you survive your 12-month tour in Vietnam so you get into the early ’69. When do you actually physically leave Vietnam? (02:16:10) Veteran: Say that again. Interviewer: When did you actually leave Vietnam? Veteran: I left the…I actually left the—February 9th. I actually stayed, extended my tour, about 10 days because they were going to have a test for second class hospital corpsmen and so I stayed there because I would have been in transit when they gave the test. They give it all over the Navy at the same time. So, I took my test for second class in Vietnam before I left and left February 9th. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: And it was really quiet in the plane until, came over the loudspeaker, “We are now leaving the Republic of Vietnam.” And then there was one huge party. It was great. Best thing. I mean, we just had a good time. And again, it was Continental. The stewardesses were there and they just had a good time. I mean, they were super nice ladies. Made you feel really good. And they’re, back in 1968, they were only the ones that really kind of welcome you home. Interviewer: Where did you land? Veteran: I land…To be honest with you, the base—I thought it was El Toro, near the LA airport. Driving distance to the LA— Interviewer: Right. �Veteran: And we got there about 3:30 in the morning. Got down, actually kissed the cement. I actually did when I landed. And they marched us into this huge hangar and told us, “We need you to be quiet. We want you to know we are going to have everybody here processed out. You will be heading towards the airport by 6 in the morning for leave.” And I just said, “Okay, we will follow your orders.” And you just do it. And they did. There was like 250 of us. And they processed all; everybody out. And we were, myself and like 5 other guys, climbed into a cab and headed for LA. (02:18:23) Veteran: And we thought they were doing us a favor. Well, they were in a way because around 7 o’clock, the protesters would show up. And the guys there told us they are pelted with tomatoes, eggs, and yelled at and cussed at. And they were not happy so we are—you’re not going to see that. So…And we didn’t; not there. We got in that cab and that cab driver…Oh my word. That was the scariest cab ride I ever saw. I didn’t know what smog was but you couldn’t see the end of the car. I mean, you couldn’t even see the hood of the car. And he’s going at 75 miles an hour and we knew we were going to die on a California highway after making it through Vietnam. That was like a 40-minute drive before he got us to the airport. And he dropped everybody off and I was almost as relieved to get out of that cab as I was getting on that plane to leave Vietnam. It was all—I mean, it was a nice feeling. But he must have known what he was doing because he got us there. Interviewer: Right. Veteran: The first—you know, I got in the airport and we already got military tickets and that. So, we are guaranteed we are getting on the plane. And I get to the window really early but there is a guy right there from the airport. And he looked at me and said, “Just back from ‘Nam, huh?” �I said, “Yep.” “You’re going to be lucky enough to get on the plane.” And it didn’t sink in that…I didn’t really care. (02:20:13) Veteran: They have bars here and nobody is shooting at me. I don’t have to duck mortars. I didn’t really care. Didn’t bother me then. Until I started thinking about it later. And you know what? I was the very last person to get on that plane. And he sat me—I don’t know how he did it—next to an Oriental. And she saw me and she said, “You come back from Vietnam?” I said, “Yes.” She asked the stewardess if she could move. And the stewardess said, “Okay. Yeah.” And she came back and she said, “You know, if there was a place in first class, I would have put you in first class but it was full.” And that kind of helped a little bit. But didn’t sink in. I mean, I didn’t get no tomatoes or eggs or spit on like a lot of guys. But there were certain little digs that, when you start to think about it, that it wasn’t a warm welcome. And a lot of—I know a lot of guys took their uniforms off, put on civilian clothes. But it is kind of hard to show that you weren’t over there because you have a very deep tan and you’ve got short hair and there’s only one place you are getting that. You’re automatically put in the military. So, I was damn proud of that uniform. That Marine green uniform? I bled to get that. And I wasn’t about to take it off. No. Interviewer: Now, are you—do you get a leave to go home for a while here? And then you have to report back? Or how does that work? (02:22:08) Veteran: I…No, when you left, they gave you 30 days. We had 30 days off. And I had to report back to Great Lakes Naval Hospital. And I got there and there’s a group of corpsmen there and they are all being assigned and I am the last guy in the room. And I am kind of like waiting. Now, how come I am last? And a lieutenant commander nurse came up to me and she said, “We have a problem and we are not quite sure how to handle it.” And I said, “Well, what is the problem?” “Well, we are going to assign you to Ward 10 North, which is upper respiratory, �hepatitis, mono, and pneumonia.” And I said, “Well, I don’t see a problem with that. I’ll get the hang of it.” And she said, “No, that’s not the problem. The problem is there is a guy up there who has been running this as a senior corpsman, because that is what you are going to be: a senior corpsman. He’s been running it for the last 2 months…” And I don’t know why they didn’t—I mean, this is the military for Christ sakes. You go up there and say, “You’re not senior corpsman anymore, this guy is because he is more senior than you are.” And I am a third class, waiting to get my second class stripes. Third class is E-4 or corporal in the Marines and E-5 is a sergeant. And if you, you know, you just go in there and tell him. That’s the way the military does things. But they didn’t want to do that. They thought it was real touchy. So, I go up there and I let the guy run the ward a little bit until I knew what I was doing. And slowly but surely, I didn’t have to do—I didn’t have to tell him anything. The fact that I had more experience than he did. I could draw—I could start IVs a whole heck of a lot quicker. I could do tests that he— they—hesitate to do. And he just realized that I was more senior. And he just kind of like took the role as the guy, the second guy, in command, which he would have been anyway. (02:24:21) Veteran: What really did it was on this ward, this guy—he was a thief. He stole some cars. And the other corpsmen were afraid of him. Big guy. I mean, he stood about 6 inches taller than I am. And so, I had to look up to talk to him. And we had to give him a test. We had to put a tube down his nose, into his stomach, and draw out some fluid so we could test his stomach fluid. And 2 corpsmen I sent down to do it. I am the senior corpsman; I am not supposed to do things. And so, I sent them down there. And they came back and they said, “We couldn’t do it.” I said, “Why?” “I was afraid.” I said, “Okay, come on.” So, I grab the glass of water and the tube and a cup for the test fluid. And I walk up to the guy and look at him. I said, “See this tube? I am going to put it in your nose. You’re going to drink the water to make it easier. I am going to put it in �your stomach and clear out some fluid. Got it?” “Yep.” “Okay.” So, I start putting it in his nose and he started drinking and it was done in 5 minutes. It was not a big deal. And I said, “Thanks.” I left the room. That was…turned the page. Okay, you’re the boss and we follow whatever you say and that was that way. The ward was pretty nice. Every once in a while, I got to help out on 9 North at the Great Lakes, which is isolation. And that’s where they get the meningitis and things they don’t know what to do [with] and they are afraid that they might be catching. And I assisted the doctor a couple times with spinal taps. Only this guy…He was out of it. And he needed a spinal tap because that’s the only way you can tell what he’s got. (02:26:34) Veteran: And so the doctor, who I really got to know really good, said—told me—“Come on down. I need your help.” So, I came down and, “I need to do a spinal tap on this guy and he is moving around in his bed.” And I said, “This is going to be difficult, isn’t it?” He said, “Yeah, I think it is going to be difficult.” And I thought for a second and I said, “No sir, it’s not. You just get ready and I’ll tell you when.” And he got all his packages ready and got his gloves on. And I got up on the bed with the guy and I stuck my knee into his stomach, hard. That made him double over and then I put one arm over around his head and neck and the other one behind his knees and I pulled him around like that with both my knees in his…So, he was right there and I said, “Can you do it now?” And doc says, “I’ll do it in a hurry.” And he did. I asked him to because when he was about done, I said, “Can you hurry up?” He said, “Why?” I said, “Well sir, he’s biting my leg and he’s not through the clothes yet but he’s going to be soon.” And so, he said, “It’s done.” And he pulled the needle out and we straightened him out. But I had teeth marks in one leg. But it was…It was an interesting time. Interviewer: Alright. Now, do you get—did you spend the rest of your time in the Navy at Great Lakes then? �Veteran: Yep. Interviewer: Okay. Now, did you get—was it more like having a civilian job in a lot of ways now? (02:28:04) Veteran: Actually, yes. Once you were there. And that’s the way it usually is once you are out of boot camp. And once you are done with all of your training, it becomes a regular job. I drove back and forth and lived off base. And drove back and forth just like a regular job. And that was—that part was really nice. Yes, there was inspections. Yes, you had to be military appearance and—which was okay, that is what you are supposed to do. But it was—in the medical field, it’s like a regular job. And the officers are a lot easier to talk to. And you didn’t always have to call them ‘sir.’ Interviewer: Yeah. Now, did they make any effort to get you to stay in? Veteran: Actually, no because when…They had so many of them at that particular time. That— when I left, it was try to reduce the number of people. And so…And there were so many corpsmen that they didn’t need anybody. They had all they needed already. So, nope. It was— and it was really nice to run through that hospital doing all the final checks to get out of the service. Almost the same feeling as when you were getting ready to leave Vietnam. It was okay, this part of my life is done and I got to start over. Interviewer: Okay. Veteran: Very anxious to start over. Interviewer: So, what did you do when you got out? �Veteran: About a month before I got out, I took leave. And this was the hard part. I mean, I couldn’t believe that in near Grand Rapids, on the south side, a lot of industry. And I applied everywhere. And on the applications at that time, you had to put whether you were a veteran or not. And of course, you put veteran down. And after about—you fill out about 45-50 of them and they don’t want nothing to do with you because you’re the veteran, you stop putting veteran down. (02:30:11) Veteran: And they knew you were a veteran anyway. Just—my looks didn’t change that much. You still have that military appearance. And so, I actually thought I was going to have to draw unemployment but I had a brother-in-law that the only reason I got a job was because of the brother-in-law. And then I just…All I wanted to do was work. Get on with my life. Interviewer: What kind of job was it? Veteran: I actually—it started off as a processor for LB Johnson in Holland. Because when I came back, that’s where I ended up living: here in Holland. And worked there for a long time and went to a place called Acrofab in Zeeland. I tried selling insurance. I did a lot of different jobs and then I finally ended up at Padnos Iron and Metal: a scrap recycler. And I worked there for 30 years. And now I am retired. Been married for 33 years to my wife. Got 3 great sons. I had 4 but one of them died. But the 3 I got are still with me and going great. Proud of them all. Interviewer: Alright. Now, did you get involved eventually with any veterans groups or things like that? Or…? Veteran: I am glad you asked that question because I probably would have not brought anything up. It was amazing how the veterans groups treated veterans when they came back. We tried to join a VFW. You couldn’t join a VFW because it wasn’t a war. Tried to join the DAV; couldn’t �do that because this was just a police action. So, we just said, “Screw it. I mean, I don’t need you.” And a few years later, late ‘70s, early ‘80s, Vietnam Veterans of America started. (02:32:26) Veteran: And my wife Pat, she saw this small little article; hey, there is some vets getting together. Vietnam vets going to start a chapter. And I said, “No, I am not going to go because they’re just a bunch of cry-babies. Going to say oh we got robbed. We did this.” She said, “Well, just go anyway and if they do that, just leave.” So, I went there and there was 7 of us. And we were the original members of the Holland chapter. And make a long story short, our chapter just celebrated its 30th anniversary. And we have 93 members, active members. It’s hard to get them out because Vietnam veterans aren’t necessarily joiners now. And we act—we are very proud: we have a Michigan Wall with all the names of all those that were killed. And it’s been highly received around the area or wherever we bring it. And we just upgraded it. We went—we actually had another wall made so you can do imprinting better. And we also are—it’s just about done with getting the names. And they are going to send it in and we are going to have a section of the wall for the last few wars from the Gulf. In fact, it will all—it will go back down to Saudi Arabia and Africa when we lost those 200 Marines? All the Michigan names are on it and all the newer names are on that wall. So, then we display it wherever we are asked to. (02:34:12) Veteran: It is well-received. I am very proud of it. We really reach out to the veterans. And I am very proud of the fact that I lead a group, myself and one other guy, we lead a group support group for veterans, for all wars. It is called ‘Vet to Vet.’ And it doesn’t replace the VA for taking care of them but what it does do, it offers a safe haven so-to-speak to come in and talk. And while it is endorsed by the VA, it’s not part of it. And—but the VA likes us to do this so the guys will want to get to the VA to get some more help. This is to help bring out their problems. �Interviewer: Right. Now, did you find yourself having to deal with levels of things like survivor’s guilt or other kinds of PTSD symptoms eventually? Veteran: Anger. I still flinch at loud noises. I hate fireworks. Every Vietnam veteran I know, most of them don’t like fireworks. It’s hard to…Other than anger, it is hard to show emotion. I have a lot of the—I am 70% PTSD. And we are working out of it. What’s nice about the ‘Vet to Vet’ is not only am I helping other veterans but I also help myself at the same time. And I’ve gone through the VA. And it’s because of the VA that I am doing the ‘Vet to Vet.’ They were looking for a couple guys and I volunteered again. So…But it is very nice to see the guys when they come in and you know you’re helping them. So…I have actually been helping vets since ’68 anyway. (02:36:15) Interviewer: Now, do you see, as you look back to your time in the service—I mean, you brought some baggage out with you but do you see positive effects on you? Are you in some ways better or wiser because you had that experience? Veteran: Yeah, it’s affected us in a lot of bad ways. We know. But in the good ways? Yeah: selfconfidence, self-assurance, you’re not afraid to tackle things. If, you know—there are no problems that are bad. I’ll take you back to Vietnam and I’ll show you problems that are bad. But in the workforce? There is nothing bad. They’re just obstacles to overcome. And I don’t think I would have thought that way if I hadn’t gone through what I did. It’s a…It was a big help. It’s amazing because when—in fact, we talked about this at the last ‘Vet to Vet’ meeting. When we came home, we felt like we were grown up. And everybody around us were still kids. They didn’t mature. And I just believe that, in a way, yeah, Vietnam did make you stronger. Weaker in a lot of places but, overall, I think it made us stronger. And would we do it again? I haven’t met a �Vietnam veteran that said, even given the same circumstances and knowing what was going to go, we would still go back. Interviewer: Well, it makes for a very powerful story so I’d like to close here by thanking you for taking the time to tell it to me today. Veteran: You’re welcome. Thank you. (02:38:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JakubczakR1329V Title A name given to the resource Jakubczak, Richard (Interview transcript and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jakubczak, Richard Description An account of the resource Richard Jakubczak is from Grand Rapids Michigan and was born in May of 1946. After high school he worked at Lowell Engineering and as a farmer. He briefly attended Kendall School of Design, but dropped out in 1966 and he and his brother joined the Navy and volunteered for training as medical corpsmen. He completed his basic training and medical training at Great Lakes, Illinois, and then went to Camp LeJeune, North Carolina, for field training. He then worked at Great Lakes Naval Hospital for ten months, and went to Vietnam in February, 1968. He was assigned to the First Shore Party, which provided logistical support to Marine combat units in the field, and was regularly attached to combat units when on operations. He was based near Da Nang, and supported Marine units involved in Operations Allen Brook and Mameluke Thrust. He left Vietnam in February, 1969, and completed his enlistment at Great Lakes. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Marine Corps United States. Navy Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-10-14 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/abf6d6cc41156f889b88021ffde02c49.mp4 cdb90822c24bfe3df5f9705e9e12172e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/75afc84b994e7d7a318d863c41619c98.pdf 89911b46ff223d61d8cb35c7ac717db6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project George Jager (55:39) (00:30) Background Information • • • • • George was born in Kalamazoo, MI He moved to Imlay City, MI when he was 10 years old There were 9 kids in his family and his father worked on a farm George also worked on the farm and in a factory during the winter He was drafted in October of 1943 (02:06) Training • • • • • George was working on a farm when he heard about the attack on Pearl Harbor from the principle of his school He was sent to Fort Custer, MI and then to Camp Blanding, FL Many of the men he trained with were from the east coast They were trained to be replacements in Europe George was sent to Camp Shanks, NY to be deployed (08:50) Deployment • • • • • • • • • • • • • • He boarded the Ile De France, a troop ship convert [former luxury liner] with 8,000 men They left in April of 1944 and travelled without a convoy The ship landed at Glasgow, Scotland George went to south east London He was chosen to go to chemical warfare school In June he went back to his unit and they crossed the English Channel They landed on Omaha Beach on June 16, 10 days after D-Day George was taken to Cherbourg to join the 4th division They fought at St Lo He was considered a heavy weapons machine gunner At Mortain the Germans made a counter attack George was hit in the leg by a bullet and taken to a field hospital After he was treated he was sent back with his unit When he got back to his unit most of the men had been replaced (26:55) Germany • George went through Luxemburg and Belgium �• • • • • • • He was right next to the battle at Bastogne They went to Maastricht in the Netherlands and then up to the Hurtgen Forest in Germany On November 1, 1944 they were surrounded in the Hurtgen Forest with a lot of shelling going on George had a shell hit next to him and he coughed up blood for 3 days They were liberated by the 9th Division A doctor checked him out and he had swamp foot, so he was sent to a hospital in Belgium for 2 months After Belgium he was put on a hospital ship (31:42) Back to the US • • • • • • The hospital ship went to Boston and he mostly played games while aboard George was sent to a hospital in Durham, NC for a month He took 30 days leave and went home After his leave he went to Miami Beach, FL and was assigned to Camp Grant, IL in April, 1945 At camp grant he was assigned to be a squad leader for people coming back from Europe that were going to Japan George was discharged in December of 1945 (45:09) After Being Discharged • • • • • • • He has visited France and seen the cemeteries for soldiers When he was in Europe during the war he didn’t know what was going on in the concentration camps His faith and his girlfriend helped him through the war He got married on June 5, 1949 George lived in Grand Rapids, MI and worked for a mason Then he got his GED and went to Calvin College George started teaching after college �.lIl C f OotU ,::t•. . ," r~ :F TH[ H"aut IUtNHt),4 1l0TT(JlID",.. G7 WORLD WAR II CEM, ffi WORLD WAR I CEME .v,r- WORLD WAR I MONI ~ WORLD WAR liMON R M A N y ",08LlNl ' .....lIlIr'_. .~RG[N'AN . t • rO UG( ltn . 1t£t.lNl S o MILES 10 20 30 40 $0 60 70 80 90 100 Ed tftO·MB"ERSE3 cemetery memorials at these burial sites; controlling as to d esign and materials, providing regulations for and supervising erection of all monuments, memorials, buildings and other structures in permanent United States cemetery memorials on for eign soil; and controlling the design of U.S. private monuments 22 E3 and cooperating with American citi­ zens, states, municipalities, or asso­ ciations desiring to erect war memo­ rials outside the continental limits of the United States. It is not responsi­ ble for construction, maintenance or operation of cemeteries in the con­ tinental United States or its terri­ tories and possessions. COLMAfit • liPtNAL<:f) <: After World War I, the American Battle Monuments Commission erected a memorial chapel in each of the eight military cemeteries overseas already established by the War Department, as well as twelve monuments and two bronze tablets on the battlefields and elsewhere, to record the achievements of our Armed Forces. In 1934, the , War I overseas cemeteries transferred to the Commission l ecutive Order. The names and locations of World War I cemetery meme the number of burials and number of missing recorded at memorials are: �Hitler's Battle Against the Ten Commandments By Gary De M~r A s an unapologetic, bibliophile" , ", I am always on the lookout for long-forgotten books that contain flashes of wisdom that offer counsel for our day. While on a trip to Mi~hi­ gail, I spent the day at John K. King Used and Rare Books 'in downtown Detroit and another fun day rummag­ ing through the used book depart­ ments at Kregel Christian Books and Baker Book House in Grand Rapids. , Searching for books on-line has its advantages, but there is nothing like seeing tens ,of thousands of books you didn't know existed, apdyou've got to havel During this latest book hunt, J came across The Ten Command­ me~ts~' Te~. Sh.~~t No':eis '~j; Hitler S War Againstthe Moral Code written byRauschning in l 943'." I was shocked,at what! read in light of the present controversy overthe Ten Commandments, Just a week before finding The Ten Commandments, I had read the following from Harold O. J. Brown's book The Sensate Cul­ ture: Western Civilization Between Chaos and Transformation: , If there are no laws made in heaven, by what standards would human society organize itself? We do need.laws by.which to organize and structure our lives, but if God has not given them, where shall they come .from? There is only one an­ swer: We must make them our­ selves. Of course, if we make our own laws they will have .no more authority or force than what we our­ selves possess and can assert by means of the power at our disposal. In other words, law comes to repre­ sent not the will of the Creator but the will of the strongest creatures, This became the wide spread view, sometimes unexpressed but fre­ quently explicit, of mostWestem ' societies in the first partofthe twen­ tieth century, America's great legal statesman, Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., thought no differently in this re­ spect from the great dictator; Adolf . Hitler. Both of them believed that laws simply represent the will of dominant majority. Holmes was a courteous, urbane, sophisticated gentleman, but his idea oflaw would have offered no opposition tothe en­ actments of Hitler, wlio fora time reflected the will ,6i 'Ger~any,'s dominantmajoriry ',' : ,.Can such a comparison be made? Holmes and Hitler? Through its abor­ tion laws alone, America has killed nearly ten times the number Hitler killed. Appeals can no Ioiiger be made to a higher' law in defense of the unborn or anyone' else for that matter. To cite any of God's mandments is a violation of th'e court'scommandments. lri '1991, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court over­ turned a murderer's death sentence because the prosecutor quoted the' Bible in his closing arguments. A similar thing happened when a pros­ ecutor quoted the Bible's instructions on the death penalty for murder. A fixed law anchored in the character of God must be censored so a flexi­ ble law can replace it, a law that can be shaped and molded to fit the agenda of the new gods, whoever they may be. com­ ' , Hitler and his malleable henchmen hated God 's law. They knew that it was the only thing that stood between them and their new world order. The God of the Bible is described by Hitler as "that Asiatic tyrant." True freedom is freedom from God's law. Rauschning recounts the following ravings by Hitler while spending the . evening with him and other Nazi party loyalists at the Reich chancery: The day will come when I shall hold up against these commandFACTS PAGE 4 FEBRUARY 2004 ments the tables of a new law. And history will recognize our move­ ment as the great battle for humanity's liberation, a liberation from th~ curse ofMount Sin~i, from the dark stammerings of nomads who could no more trust their own sound instincts, who could un­ derstand the divine only in the form of a tyrant who orders one to do the very things one doesn't like, This is what we are fighting against: the . masochistic spirit of self-torment, J the curse of so-called morals, idol­ ized to protect the weak from the strong in the face of immortal law of battle, the great law of divine nature. Against the so-called ten commandments, against them we are fighting." , Sound familiar? For now, the ma­ terialists will' permit us to hang our displays ofthe Ten Co~andments in our homes and churches, but there can be no such standard forthe State. People of goodwillin Germany and beyonddid. no! believe Herman Rauschning. in 1937, and there are too many Christians today who won 't be lieve me about the Ten Command" ments battle today and wh~re it migh]:f\ lead. The courts are doing legalli~ what Hitler did through terror. ,~ ~ , least three supreme court justices, have declared that international la~ should be America's standard ofjus-, tice. tAnd what is the foundation of international law? Are Americans willing to adopt the moral world view of Europe? If Christians do not wake up, America is headed down the same dark path to destruction. BiblicalJVorld Views, December, 2003 - Dread Sovereign let my evening '~ ong like holy incenserise; Assist the offering of my tongue to reach the lofty skies. Isaac Watts � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JagerG Title A name given to the resource Jager, George (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jager, George Description An account of the resource George Jager grew up in Michigan and was drafted in 1943 and trained in Florida to be a replacement infantryman. In April of 1944 he went to England on a converted troop ship. George received chemical warfare training and then landed on Omaha Beach 10 days after D-day. He was a machine gunner and fought in battles at Normandy, Mortain, and the Hurtgen Forest. George was injured once at Mortain by a bullet and again at the Hurtganen Forest by a bomb. He was sent to a field hospital and then a back the US because of his swamp foot. He served for a short time after arriving home and then was discharged. After he was discharged he went to college and became a teacher. A map and magazine article are appended to interview outline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-01-20 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e6591c1de3f5b6c1ca07088f0e492532.m4v 741bd196de955df96ff611b419cb7d74 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/17d8d55a5f744e39bd29ca47c7a700e9.pdf 8d668df6c69e160b4ab58b55be52eeb5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Art Jacobs Disc one: (1:06:00) Disc two: (00:59:08) Disc one (1:00) Growing up in Michigan • • • • There was a lady that lived at the end of the road that gave music lessons He was interested in music and attended music lessons His father bought a general store in Morengo, MI He attended school in Morengo and had to walk a mile every day for school (3:00) The School House • • • • • The school held all grades through eighth He walked to school with his sister every day He remembers there were lots of windows in the school The school had a modern bathroom, while most buildings at the time were using outhouses They burned wood to heat the building (5:00) Morengo, MI • • • • • • • His mother was the post-master in this town He loved to go to his father’s store after school and get treats One time an alcoholic broke into the store in the middle of the night and drank a bunch of anti-freeze; he died There was a large room upstairs where they held dances They went bob-sledding in the winter There was a Native American family in the neighborhood and Art thought it was so cool that one of their sons could catch fish with his bare hands His parents sold the store in 1928 and used the money to move to Battle Creek and buy a gas station (9:00) The Gas Station • There was a really bad winter one year and his father had to work all through it • His father got a bad cold, which turned into pneumonia • His father passed away shortly after because penicillin had not been in use yet • His father died when he was six • His family then went through a series of moves, but his mom was able to keep the family together (10:28)1932: The Depression �• • • • • His mom only received 10% of the total money they had saved in the bank The depression wiped out all of their savings His sister helped the family making the most money at seventeen years old His mother worked as a seamstress His mom cooked very well (12:30) His Older Brother • He moved out early because he got married • His brother bought a new 1932 Ford Model A Roadster with a rumble seat (15:00) News from Europe in the 30s • He was young at the time and his interests were elsewhere • He does remember the Hindenburg explosion • There was no television for the news • The ship had left Germany for New Jersey • It blew up in an instance; it was gone in seconds • It was the first real disaster that left an impression on him (17:30) His Sister Gets Married • Art had to drop out of school in 1939 to go to work • His mother was alone and needed help with money (18:05) Pearl Harbor • He was at a friend’s house when he heard the news • He had been working at Eaton Manufacturing, in charge of blueprints when he was drafted for the war • It was a busy company because it was making valves for airplanes • To get his diploma, he went to summer school • He needed to take a test for the Navy Air Corps • His teacher was Mr. Van Andel, whose son was in the Naval Air Corps • He received A’s in his classes and passed them in weeks so he was able to get his diploma (21:25) September 30, 1943 • Art was called to active duty at the Wayne Hotel in Detroit • There were 435 cadets assembled in Detroit • Of 435, only 32 graduated with wings • Art graduated with wings (22:35) First Days in the Naval Air Corps • He went to Wesleyan University in Ohio • He continued his education to prepare to be a pilot in the Navy, which require more education and time than an Army pilot would need because they had to learn to fly off ships �• • They had to learn water, land, and celestial navigation as well as how to be a gunner, navigator and a pilot Training in the Army took 9 months while training in the Navy took 18 months (25:30) California • They were sent to the US Naval Air Station in Livermore • They were to learn advanced flying and were then sent to Corpus Christi Texas for the second largest Naval Air Station in the US • In July of 1944, he received his gold wings as a Naval Air Pilot • The rest of the 435 cadets had been washed out or re-assigned to another area • He then received a 30 day leave for vacation time off (28:20) Marriage • Art married his high school girlfriend on July 30th, 1944 • “I was one hot tamale.” • He then went to Atlanta for Instrument Flight Instructor School because his past instructor for Instrument Flying recommended him for the position • His wife went with him to Atlanta • They lived off base where he completed his instructions • His first naval assignment was in Beeville, Texas where he taught Flight Training School for cadets • They lived in a nice unit and he has good memories (31:00) Waldron Field Corpus Christi • He was in Advanced Fighter Pilot school teaching advanced flight tactics • He was even assigned his own unit • He eventually became the oldest instructor at Waldron Field (32:35) Tour of Duty Expires • He received orders to report to Seattle to board the Saratoga and his wife went back home to Battle Creek • D-Day occurred two days before he was supposed to ship off and his orders were cancelled • He then continued to train cadets • He was once again ordered to report to Seattle in August, and again his orders were cancelled two days before he left because they had dropped the bomb in Hiroshima (34:25) Overseas • He went on vacation with his discharge bonus for training so many; they went to Aruba and the Caribbean • Yet the Navy really discharges a certified pilot because it costs them $80,000.00 to train someone • He really just received a Release from Active Duty Certificate; he was still required to participate in reserve training �(36:25) Reserve Training in Battle Creek, Michigan • He became a “weekend warrior” • Every other weekend their unit was at Groes Field in Battle Creek, working through Friday, Saturday, and Sunday • Art became the Executive Officer of his unit, which is second in command • They were able to fly a lot of nice airplanes (38:00) Getting Into Trouble • “the more you fly, the more careless you get;” people become over-confident • Art had gotten a job as a district manager in Ohio • He had been home to see his relatives on the weekend • It was the fourth of July and there were thousands of people at the Battle Creek Fair while they were staying with their in-laws • He was on his way home when some guy was taunting him and caused him to fly too close to Bailey Park • The state police got the numbers off his plane and he got in trouble with the CEO for flying below 1500 feet in a congested area, for doing acrobatics over a congested area, and for doing acrobatics in a commercial flight lane • He had to report to the FAA guy I the tower, who also lived in Freemont, Ohio • He had to lay his hand on a Navy Regulation book and swear to never fly that way again in the future (45:45) 1954 Reduction in Force • The reserve weekend warrior program was abolished and he was just two years away from receiving his retirement pay • He was discharged early so he did not receive any retirement pay • He believes that every male should join the service to become a better man and to get straightened out • He was in the Navy for more than fourteen years and was full Lieutenant when he was done, which is equivalent to being a captain in the Army (48:20) A Member of the Masons • He was 27 years old when he joined the masons • He was good friends with a guy who was part of the Battle creek Lodge and he talked about the Masons a lot, but he was still in the reserves at the time • Art became part of the Bedford Lodge and also joined the Scottish Right, in which he became the Commander in Chief in Grand Rapids and received his 33rd degree • He was also part of the Red Cross and a life member of the Eastern Star (55:55) His Wife During the Service • She was always with him while he was in the service and she worked for Wolverine Insurance Company • She was also a nurse’s aide at Fort Custer; “she is a natural born care taker” • Art has a son and a daughter, four grandchildren, and ten great grandchildren (56:45)The Masonic Pathway �• • He had always been interested in music and carpentry Art had three heart attacks after his children moved out of the house (1:00:00) The Home • He and his wife moved to a home in 1999 and it was the best decision they had ever made • They both really enjoy living there and have made lots of friends (1:00:35) How the Service Has Influenced His Life • It taught him the principles of good living • The service left a great influence on Art and he has benefitted endlessly throughout his life • He was taught how to manage his problems • Art is very grateful to the Navy and to the Masonic Order Disc two (1:25) The Roaring Twenties • “They weren’t roaring for me.” • His sister had a good job and his mom was a seamstress • Art played lots of sports like basketball and baseball • His mom was steadily employed and never remarried when his father died • The only good memory he has of his dad is him laying in a casket with his big Masonic ring (5:20) The Stock Crash • His mom lost 90% of their money through the bank, the prohibition was in effect at the time and his dad always brewed his own beer (7:35) The Hindenburg Crash • It was the biggest, lighter than air ship ever (9:15) Meeting famous Baseball Players • They taught him how to throw a curve ball • At the time, he did not think to ask for their autographs (10:30) Tobacco Experience • He tried some chewing tobacco because he had seen baseball players chewing it; he tried it and it gave him a buzz and then he fell out of a tree house • Art has never tried tobacco again (11:45) Playing Stick Hockey • Art played stick hockey in his backyard, but without ice or a puck • Instead they used a carnation milk can for a puck • Once he was hit in the face and lost a tooth �(12:55) Cars • His mom did not drive • Art’s brother worked for a coach company in Battle Creek • Street cars disappeared from Battle Creek around 1935 (17:00) His Great-Great Grandmother • She was a famous lady from England who opened a spiritual camp in Vicksburg • She was a doctor who was known for her music and she played for three different presidents at the White House • She was also a spiritual advisor to President Lincoln • Charlie and Lewis were her sons and they were both Civil War veterans • Art’s grandmother received pension from them being in the Civil War (21:15) Charlie • Charlie “was a bit of a rogue.” • He wrote checks in his moms name and she prosecuted him for that • He then went to Jackson prison and was very upset about that • He killed himself in prison by ingesting sulfur (24:00) Lewis • He owned a newspaper in Vicksburg called the Union • He was a renown speaker and traveled a lot (25:00) Joseph • Joseph was his great-great grandmother’s husband • He was a Jew, also from England, who allegedly owned his own island (27:15) The 30s • In 1938 his sister got married and at the age of sixteen he had to drop out of school and work to support his mother • He only went to high school through the eleventh grade • Yet without a diploma he could not join the Air Corps of the Navy, so he had to go back to take classes in the summer • His mom then moved in with his sister when she had a baby and she was able to help to take care of the baby since his sister and her husband both worked (31:40) His Mother Dies • She died when she was 63 years old, yet she had never been sick • She died out of nowhere while she was giving his sister’s baby a bath on the kitchen table • The baby had been on the table alone for about two hours before his sister and her husband came home from work (34:25) The 30s �• • • • • His family did not own a car and they traveled by bus At the age of 16 he ran away and went to California on a freight train Art lived in hobo camps and was away from home for eight months He had left with his brother’s wives cousin They washed windows at hotels and begged for food (40:38) Art Comes Home • He was like a celebrity in high school for running away to California • He had a good time in California • His mom was not mad at him when he came home; his sister and her were both happy to see him again (45:00) The Navy • In the Navy he learned how to be a real man (45:50) Masonry • He always had that picture of his father with his huge Masonic ring stuck in his head • Art lived in the jurisdiction of Bedford and on September 3, 1948 he became a Master Mason • He went through the program very quickly and finished in two months (51:20) He was a commander of the Scottish Right (51:50) He helped in the Red Cross and was a member of the Eastern Star � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JacobsA Title A name given to the resource Jacobs, Art (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jacobs, Art Description An account of the resource Art Jacobs joined the Naval Air Corps in the 1930s. He was one of only 32 men that graduated with wings out of the original 435 men. He stayed in the Navy for a long time and eventually taught other young men advanced air fighting tactics. While he was called out to fight in World War twice, in both times his orders eventually were cancelled before he was actually shipped out. Art Had a rough childhood because his father died when he was only six and then he and his siblings had to help support their mother. Art enjoyed being in the Navy and believes that every male should serve at one point in their life. After life in the Navy, Art also became part of the Masons, the Red Cross, and the Eastern Star. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-11-17 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dec1810c6e9b9c1bf0f1305b72b02fee.mp4 ffd363e5d98bcf71ed2bbfa2cdaa89d8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3f8a699ea197b5e9613f654bb74b2f2b.pdf 75f5280824477e2df6dad7b4f0554c3d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Gloria Jackson Total Time – (32:56) Background      She was born on January 23, 1925 (00:31) Her parents were extremely nice o Her father worked at Wolverine Brass and her mother did not work (01:02) She had two sisters and two brothers (01:16) She remembers living through the Great Depression and it being hard to get certain commodities such as sugar and butter (01:49) o When she was in training, all of her food was taken care of so she never had to worry about the food shortages She grew up in Grand Rapids and went to Creston High School (02:10) o She had to walk two miles back and forth from school o She graduated in 1942 (02:48) Training/Cadet Nurse Corps – (02:52)        She got an opportunity to take an entrance exam at Butterworth Hospital in Grand Rapids, Michigan (02:57) o They accepted her into the Cadet Nurse Corps o At the time, the government took over and gave them all uniforms and paid their schooling She joined because she believed it would be a good profession to be in (04:17) Her first days were fun because she was able to meet a lot of new girls She trained at Wayne University in Detroit, Michigan for the first six months (04:53) o After the six months at Wayne University she went back to Butterworth Hospital until being sent back to Detroit (05:06) o For her last six months of training she was sent to Percy Jones Hospital (Battle Creek Sanitarium) in Battle Creek, Michigan (05:45) The best part of her training was being able to be in contact with a lot of people She remembers her instructors from training (07:36) After she graduated from her training she worked at Butterworth Hospital �                o She then transferred to Fort Custer near Battle Creek, Michigan (08:26) o She worked in the Mental Ward of the hospital where soldiers with mental problems would go o She stayed in this position for a couple of years (08:38) Once she got married, she transferred to a hospital in Des Moines, Iowa (08:47) o She had many different kinds of patients o There were some patients that had all of their limbs blown off At Battle Creek, some of the German POW’s were in the hospital (09:46) o The POW’s would help out in the hospital o She never got to know them very well o The POW’s were always treated well by the Americans (10:03) A normal day involved getting up early, being on duty at 7 A.M., getting off at 3:30 P.M., sometimes working nights, and off duty time was filled with any other activities that they wanted The hospitals then had much more personal contact than modern hospitals (11:36) o There was a lot more charting when she was working in the hospitals because patients would have to stay longer than they do now (12:03) She dealt with the traumatizing events in the hospital by not dwelling on them and focusing on her work She was able to stay in contact with her family during training through a telephone (13:02) o She was able to go home sometimes as well  They would have one day off every week (13:10) The food at the hospital was always good After their shifts, the nurses would often read, play cards together, go shopping, or any other leisure activity (13:53) o They would sometimes go out to Grand Haven or Holland, Michigan at the beach Many of the soldier patients would get together when they could to have fun and pass the time (15:05) The nurses were supposed to be in bed by 10 P.M. One of her friends at the hospital had a husband who was a POW (17:09) o He eventually came back to America and was fine One day in the hospital, one of her friends pulled her slip down to the floor (18:14) There was one time when a man was smoking in a room with oxygen tanks and he threw the cigar near the tank and there was a small explosion (19:08) There were always special meals for holidays o If she was not working, she would go home (19:55) The nurses received one week of vacation every year She was in Grand Rapids, Michigan the day the war ended (20:45) o All of the nurses went down to Monroe Avenue and celebrated o Personally, she thought it was great the war had ended  She was still young and did not understand the ramifications of war (21:21) � She did not understand how it affected the entire world After Training – (21:50)     After her training was finished, she went to get a job at a furniture factory (21:59) She then got a job in the cafeteria at Butterworth Hospital (22:16) Her experiences made her not like war and wish that there were more diplomatic answers for differences in the world (23:53) o She does not like the way things are currently going on in the world o She believes that we should take in honor in what we are doing and that we should fight for our country (24:19) Her experiences helped make her a person that can understand what it is like to be a patient (25:06) o She has more empathy for families and the patients � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JacksonG1259V Title A name given to the resource Jackson, Gloria (Interview outline and video), 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jackson, Gloria Description An account of the resource Gloria Jackson was born in 1925 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. She graduated from high school in 1942, just before being accepted into the Cadet Nursing Corps. She trained at Butterworth Hospital, Wayne University, and Percy Jones Hospital (Battle Creek Sanitarium). She also worked for some time in Des Moines, Iowa after getting married. She remembers seeing German POW's in the hospitals. Gloria was in Grand Rapids, Michigan when World War II ended. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Lane, Anna (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Cadet Nurse Corps Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-06-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/31a883c7715ffeca7c7012ff8781a0f3.m4v fb90b04ad0467e0f33b9fc11acd0be20 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f9caf603ba55d890b59619290c22b6ca.pdf 3ff0bb1cbc88a0457f1a8991d1ae7886 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Vietnam Era Dan Huver Interview Length: (00:19:30:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:14:00)  Born September 28, 1943 (00:00:14:00)  Served in the Army as a sergeant E-5 during the pre-Vietnam era (00:00:18:00)  Born in Lowell, Michigan at his parent’s farm (00:00:42:00)  Went to Lowell High School and graduated in 1962 (00:00:58:00)  After high school, Huver was not sure what he wanted to do; he thought about joining the Michigan State Police and going into law enforcement (00:01:07:00) o At that time, there were only two schools available for that type of training, each at different times of the year, and when Huver graduated, there were no schools available, so he decided to go into the Army (00:01:16:00)  When he enlisted, the military draft was in effect (00:01:35:00) o Ever male signed up for selective service when they were twenty-three or twentyfour and if a man’s name came up, then he served for two years (00:01:46:00) o Huver was eighteen and he decided that he would have his name moved up on the list; instead of enlist for three years, he got drafted to serve for two years (00:01:54:00)  In September 1962, Huver was inducted (00:02:17:00) o Initially, he went to Detroit, Michigan, passed his physical exam, then went on to Fort Knox, Kentucky for his basic training (00:02:24:00) o After eight weeks of basic training, Huver was selected to go to an NCO (Noncommissioned Officer) training school (00:02:35:00) o After NCO school, Huver went into the armor training where the men learned how to drive the tanks and how to fire off all of the tank’s armaments (00:02:51:00) Deployment (00:03:10:00)  After graduating from armored training, Huver went to advanced training at Fort Riley, Kansas, where the Army was preparing an airlift to Germany (00:03:10:00) o The Army was taking a complete division of troops and transporting them to Rhein-Main, Germany (00:03:24:00) o The Army did this every six months; in seventy-two hours, they took an entire division from Fort Riley and transported them to Germany and brought the troops in Germany back to Fort Riley (00:03:38:00) o Huver gained experience being involved in the airlift, such as learning to be at the right place at the right time; experience that allowed him to be promoted to sergeant (00:04:03:00)  After his promotion to sergeant, Huver was in charge of training troops (00:04:25:00) �    o When he came back to Fort Riley, it was at the beginning of the Vietnam conflict (00:04:35:00) o Everyone who took basic training went on to some sort of advanced training, such as armored or infantry (00:04:47:00) o The Army turned Fort Riley into an advanced training location for infantry, which meant that soldiers fresh out of basic training went to the fort for the advanced infantry training (00:05:03:00)  At that time, the instructors were focusing on Vietnam; how to training, protect, and advance the trainees (00:05:25:00) o At this time, Huver was an instructor at the fort (00:05:37:00) The experience in Germany was wonderful; the people were friendly towards all of the soldiers (00:05:52:00) o In the early 1960’s, the German people loved and looked up to the American soldiers; if the soldiers went off-base, German civilians would invite the soldiers in for dinner (00:06:03:00) While he was in the service, Huver’s girlfriend wrote him a letter every day; at mail call, he could count on his name being read (00:06:27:00) Huver also made several good friends while in the service (00:06:52:00) He had a lot of memorable experiences while in the service, but training the troops to go to Vietnam was the most stressful (00:07:42:00) o Because it was early in the war, the instructors were not exactly at that point in time that they knew what the military were getting into or how they should be training the troops; however, the instructors did the best that they could (00:07:55:00) Training cont’d (00:08:14:00)  Basic training was interesting (00:08:14:00) o Going from a high school farm boy into the Army meant discipline (00:08:18:00) o The men woke up at five in the morning; when reveille sounded and the lights came on, the men hit the floor running (00:08:26:00) o Every morning, the men did PT (Physical Training), calisthenics and ran two miles, all before breakfast (00:08:37:00) o Before the men got to eat breakfast, each man had to do fifty to sixty feet of monkey bars and if he fell, a man had to go to the back of the line; the men learned very fast that if they wanted to eat, they held on (00:08:51:00) o The training was good for a lot of the men; the heavier men lost weight and the regimentation helped all the men (00:09:22:00) o Huver enjoyed the training, but it was still tough (00:09:35:00)  Huver went into armor early on, but there were a lot of other avenues that Huver could have taken (00:09:50:00) o At that point in his life, he did not know what he wanted to do, so Huver just went with the flow; he still thought that when he got out of the military, he could still go into law enforcement (00:10:15:00) o However, he did not follow up on that avenue, although the military did offer wonderful military police programs (00:10:32:00) � When he arrived at Fort Riley, it was a culture shock; he came from Lowell high school, where it was all white males (00:11:06:00) o Because of the airlift to Germany, the Army had brought in troops from all over the United States to build up the division (00:11:22:00) o Huver figures that it was around 60 to seventy percent black troops in his division (00:11:38:00) Video pauses at 11:55 Germany / Fort Reilly cont’d / Post-Military Life (00:13:02:00)  The airlift from Fort Riley took Huver to Germany (00:13:02:00) o From there, the division spent six months doing maneuvers (00:13:06:00) o At that time, the Soviet Union had a large force that the United States had to defend against, so the division spent time preparing to fight them (00:13:11:00) o At one point, Huver went to Berlin and saw the Berlin Wall (00:13:20:00)  West Berlin was almost like the United States but when Huver went on a tour of East Berlin, the communists did not allow any cameras (00:14:08:00)  For the tour, Huver went through “Checkpoint Charlie”, which was just machine gun nests and barricades; when the tour bus went into East Berlin, it was like night and day (00:14:38:00) o West Berlin was busy, had industry, and socially, everything was going; in East Berlin, the buildings that had been bombed during World War II were not repaired and sometimes they just put a freshly painted façade over the bombed-out building (00:14:57:00)  It was interesting to take the tour and see East Berlin (00:15:39:00) o Huver met a lot of nice people while he was in Germany (00:15:51:00)  Eventually, the division airlifted back to the United States after six months and went back to Fort Riley (00:16:01:00) o While at Fort Riley, Huver helped with the training for soldiers before they went over to Vietnam (00:16:10:00) o Although the United States had some soldiers in Vietnam in late 1959, the conflict did not escalate until the mid-1960s (00:16:17:00) o To assist, the Army turned Fort Riley into an advanced infantry training location and Huver was assigned to a training station (00:16:36:00) o While training, he met a lot of troops that he and the other instructors prepared as best they could for what the soldiers would encounter in Vietnam (00:16:52:00) o At that point in time, Huver was a “short-timer”, which meant that he was getting close to the end of his two-year enlistment (00:17:12:00) o After the training, the Army shipped the entire division, the 1st Division, to Vietnam in July – August of 1964 (00:17:27:00)  Unfortunately, the division did not have the best results while in Vietnam (00:18:24:00) � When he was discharged, Huver went back to Lowell and at that point in time, he had married his high school sweetheart (00:18:32:00) o The couple stayed in the Lowell area and raised their family (00:18:57:00) o Huver’s State Police and law enforcement career never panned out, but everything worked out in the end (00:19:01:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Huver, Daniel (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Huver, Dan Description An account of the resource Dan Huver was born in September 1943 in Lowell, Michigan. After briefly thinking about joining a law enforcement academy, Huver requested that the military move his name up on the draft list so that they would draft him and he would only serve for two years instead of the three years had he enlisted. After he received NCO and armored training, Huver was part of an airlift to Germany, where his entire division performed maneuvers of six months. Following Germany, Huver returned to United States and served at Fort Riley, Kansas as an advanced infantry instructor for soldiers going to Vietnam. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Huver, Quinn (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-05-15 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HuverD Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/76e1eff6e7aa53559ad17b6a57662090.m4v d253aa1972d8aa8117c658576b363f83 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f743f1ef9c19f44c411b7a25bcb1b94c.pdf a024ce9635c73b13b3bc198ac60c08e4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project World War II J.W. Hurst Interview Length: (00:43:07:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:00:00)  Born July 1, 1918 (00:00:00:00)  Fought in World War II and served with the First Army Task Force (00:01:09:00)  Hurst served mostly with the infantry; his job involved calling back for artillery guns to shoot at enemy guns and trucks (00:01:37:00)  He landed on Omaha Beach a few minutes after the Marines [Rangers?]landed; maybe ten minutes or so after the Marines (00:02:27:00)  The military did not have any location in Tennessee, Hurst’s home state; instead, Hurst was told that he had to go to a base in Georgia to be sworn into the military (00:03:40:00) o At the time, the military picked people out of a hat or box; Hurst was not drafted, he was picked to be drafted (00:04:33:00)  He went to Georgia and was sworn into the military and originally joined the Air Force [Army Air Corps at the time] (00:05:14:00) o Both his sons also ended up in the Air Force (00:05:32:00) o He went into the Air Force, but they would not let him fly; Hurst eventually told his commander that he did not like the situation (00:05:58:00)  The commander asked Hurst what he wanted to get into because he could not keep Hurst as Hurst was not drafted (00:06:17:00)  Hurst said that he did not know and asked what openings the military had for him; the commander said that he would send Hurst back to North Carolina, “where they were jumping” (00:06:31:00)  The Air Force commander sent Hurst back to North Carolina but the men were not jumping out of airplanes; instead, they were jumping out of tall towers (00:07:01:00) o In North Carolina, Hurst’s first sergeant turned out to be a man that he had gone to school with (00:07:32:00) o At the time, the men had parachutes for jumping out of the tower and Hurst told the sergeant that he did not like the jumping (00:08:27:00)  Hurst had been used to working all the time (00:08:45:00)  The sergeant told Hurst to talk to the jump commander and Hurst told the commander that he did not much care for the jumping of off the tower; the parachute had barely opened by the time Hurst reached the ground (00:09:09:00)  Again, the commander said that he could not keep Hurst and asked Hurst where he wanted to go; again, Hurst said that he did not know (00:09:39:00)  The military eventually sent Hurst north to Vermont, which was extremely cold when Hurst got there (00:09:54:00) � o The Army used to take the man all over the place; one time, they took the men out and put down in a massive hole that the Army had dug (00:10:57:00) o The men were told to use their tools to climb up the embankment and get their equipment out with them; the men stayed in the hole for days before they finally climbed out of the hole (00:11:52:00)  One man eventually made it out, tied ropes to several trees, and then the men were able to pull their equipment out, including: guns, trucks, weapons carriers, and jeeps (00:12:19:00)  It took the men a long time to get out of the hole because they had to get their equipment out as well (00:13:09:00) Hurst stayed in Vermont and then he went to England and eventually fought in France (00:13:15:00) o He landed on Omaha beach, where he eventually got high enough that he could see smoke rising from a nearby city (00:13:40:00) o After they had landed, the Army turned Hurst’s unit around, took them back aboard the boats and through the Straits of Gibraltar, and had them land in Italy, on the heel of the boot (00:13:52:00)  During this landing, Hurst got off the same time as the infantry got off of the boats (00:14:08:00) Training cont’d / Service (00:14:46:00)  When he was in Vermont, Hurst’s unit went to New York state for a period then would go back to their base in Vermont (00:14:46:00) o Whenever the unit returned from New York, the unit commander said that he would take the men out for walks and runs of seven miles (00:16:06:00) o The men had to run seven miles out and seven miles back and when they returned to camp, the commander asked if anyone wanted to go to town (00:16:22:00)  Whenever the commander asked the question, the men from the South, Hurst included, raised their hands (00:16:56:00)  There were five men from the South in the unit and they all raised their hands to get into the city and see a show (00:17:05:00) o The commander told the men to be back at a certain time (00:17:40:00)  Hurst’s training was all over; he was in New York state, Vermont, and Virginia; on the trip to Virginia, Hurst drove a truck that pulled on of his unit’s four guns (00:18:04:00)  There were four batteries in the unit and each battery had four guns; Hurst was in “A” battery and he only had to worry about “A” battery, not “C” or “B” (00:18:39:00) o At any given time, three men from the unit were up with the infantry at the front and they all did the same job, calling back for the guns to fire at something (00:19:03:00) o The guns in the unit fired ninety-five pound shells (00:19:25:00)  England had a channel dividing it from the continent (00:20:23:00)  Hurst was in the service for four years, including two years training in the United States (00:20:50:00) o He did all types of training, including having to crawl under wires that the Army had pulled across a swamp (00:21:00:00) �    o The training was mostly to help the men prepare to land on Omaha beach (00:21:50:00) o Hurst also went to New York, Vermont, Virginia, and Tennessee (00:22:01:00)  Hurst’s grandfather had died and he asked his captain if he could go and see his grandfather buried (00:22:22:00)  The captain said that they had march orders to go to Rhode Island and Hurst asked if he could go to the funeral and meet the unit in Rhode Island (00:22:52:00)  When the captain asked who would carry Hurst’s equipment, Hurst said that it would be the same man who drove him to Tennessee (00:23:19:00) When his unit went to England, the Army took the unit out to the moors, where the unit’s trucks became stuck (00:23:54:00) o The men got the trucks out but getting one out first then pulling the rest out (00:24:30:00) At one point, Hurst almost got in trouble over a church (00:25:46:00) o One time, Hurst saw German’s in the church’s tower, so he called for an airburst round, which he received (00:26:09:00) o The ninety-five round airburst near the church and “B” and “C” batteries took their cue from the smoke and hit the church three times (00:26:27:00) o However, they accused Hurst of hitting the church and it took a long time to convince the Army that he was not at fault (00:26:50:00)  Hurst said that he ordered an airburst round to scare the Germans out of the church, which it did (00:27:11:00) o The church in question was in France and the Germans were climbing it so that they could see a long distance for their eighty-eight guns (00:27:32:00) Now, the situation in the military has changed (00:28:19:00) o For example, men no longer have to take training to land (00:28:25:00) Both of Hurst’s sons served in the military; one flew with a bomber and the other flew with a refueling plane (00:28:41:00) o The refueling plane flew right at the point of going into space (00:29:07:00) o One time, the refueling plane flew over the General Motors planet where Hurst worked; the plane had started refueling one plane over Canada and released it over the Mississippi River near Tennessee (00:29:46:00) o The other son flew in a bomber and helped drop bombs (00:30:36:00) Post-Military Life (00:30:48:00)  The one thing that bothered Hurst when he got out of the service was that he did not know how many people he killed (00:30:48:00) o He caught both trucks and tanks and the trucks were hauling either ammunition or soldiers to the front (00:31:07:00) o This fact bothered him, so Hurst went to see a doctor, where he meet a kid who had done the exact same thing Hurst was doing (00:31:36:00) o The kid asked if Hurst was bothered in the head and Hurst said yes, because by the time his unit reached a spot they had attacked, the spot had been cleaned up and the bodies taken away (00:31:58:00) �    This fact bothered Hurst because he could not get over how man people he had killed (00:32:36:00) o He did not know how many people he killed, but Hurts knew that he had killed some people (00:32:52:00) o One time, there was bunch of Germans that Hurst could see and he called back for one round to explode three feet off of the ground (00:33:06:00)  They battery sent the round in and that was when Hurst knew that men were killed; the round tore the group up and killed most of them (00:33:38:00) o When Hurst met the kid who had done the same thing, the kid said that he went to an herb doctor who was from India (00:34:24:00)  Hurst eventually went and the doctor told Hurst to rub a root on his tongue three times (00:35:20:00)  Whenever Hurst went to this doctor, the kid was always there (00:35:39:00)  Hurst went to the doctor three times and he took Hurst’s mind away from the men being killed (00:35:49:00)  When Hurst asked about going for a forth time, the doctor asked if Hurst wanted to die because if Hurst rubbed the herb on his tongue for a forth time, he would die (00:36:09:00)  The doctor said that Hurst used the exact amount that he wanted Hurst to use (00:36:51:00) Hurst was fairly young when he went into the military; he was about twenty years old when he went into the military (00:37:43:00) At one point, he started driving a caterpillar vehicle hauling dirt to pack down for the building a dame (00:38:22:00) o They then put Hurst another, larger, caterpillar vehicle and had him pushing down trees; one time, he accidentally turned too hard and broke a large axle of another vehicle (00:39:09:00) o The other vehicle was on the other side of a river and Hurst was pushing things back to him to the point that they could tie wires to the tree’s stump (00:40:32:00) He met his wife’s brother and sat with him and ate dinner; the brother eventually asked Hurst if he had a car (00:41:12:00) o Hurst said that he did because he had just purchased a new V-8, when the V-8’s had first come out (00:41:34:00) o The brother suggested that Hurst come with him and that was when Hurst met his future wife (00:41:48:00) Discussion of Hurst’s service pictures (00:43:07:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hurst, J.W. (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hurst, J.W. Description An account of the resource J.W. Hurst was born in July 1918. After enlisting in the military, Hurst bounced around training, including going into the Air Corps, going to paratroop training and finally receiving training in artillery. Hurst served with the First Army Task Force and participated in the landing on Omaha beach and the campaign in France. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Hoffman, Jake (Interviewer) Glamo, Jared (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-05-24 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HurstJW Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/02ea36ecb69977b609e7896d83ef34d4.pdf 3354bf07bf8f0e7ed54270cc73c97446 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Korean War Donald Hopper 17:33 Introduction (01:01)      Donald was born in Sault Saint Marie, Michigan on December 14, 1933. He had three brothers and three sisters. His older brother was in the Air Force and his younger brother was in the Army, but received a medical discharge due to a knee injury. Prior to his service, Donald was a student at the Michigan College of Mining and Technology, known today as Michigan Technical University (Michigan Tech). He enlisted in the Marine Corps because he wanted to be as prepared as he could prior to going into battle. Military (02:27)              The training was rigorous, strenuous and well worth while. Donald went to boot camp in San Diego, California and after that he went to Camp Pendleton where he learned advanced combat training. This lasted for eight additional weeks after boot camp. It was not difficult for Donald to adjust to military life. He got up at 3am and worked all day until they went to bed at 9pm that night. When they went to the mess hall, they stood outside in formation. They were admitted by platoon, and they were given five minutes to get in, get their food, eat it, and then be back out in formation. Not many people were able to really eat a full meal. (04:28) Donald served in California and Virginia. When Korea ended, he was stationed at Quantico, Virginia. The attitude was different back then, everybody was expected to serve. You were either drafted or enlisted but everyone served in some way. Adjustment back into civilian life was different, but it did not take long to shake off the military lifestyle and rejoin the civilian ranks. He restarted his schooling right after his discharge, so he didn’t have time to not adjust. (06:33) Over the years, he maintained contact with some of his friends from the service, but most of them are dead now. Going into boot camp, they were told that they would be there for over three months. And during that time, they were molded into Marines. After all these years, Donald still considers himself a Marine. One lesson that he learned was love of country. Also he learned that if he put his mind to doing something, he could do it. (08:27) �World War II Memories (08:45)       Donald was seven years old when Pearl Harbor was bombed, and he remembers when it happened. His dad was in his forties at the time and he had to register for the draft. He also fought in the first World War in France. He did not have to serve in the Second World War Sault St. Marie was a strategic location because of the locks that transported iron ore. Near his house, they had barrage balloon sites. These balloons were the size of a house, and were run up a cable and discouraged aircraft from flying around. (10:46) He and his friends would run errands for the soldiers stationed nearby, such as getting them ice cream and other things. His parents would also invite the troops over to their house for Sunday dinner. Marine Corps (12:15)         After completing advanced combat training at Camp Pendleton, most of the men that trained with Donald were sent to Korea. Donald missed out on the fierce fighting that was still going on in country. He was sent to an Army base, Fort Belvoir, in Virginia and took a course on topographical surveying. It was his function to layout where artillery was set and relay positions. He was then sent to Quantico, Virginia where he was assigned to the Marine Corps Equipment Board. They were sent new gear and equipment, such as ammunition, rifles and other combat gear. They would test this new gear and find out if the Marine Corps wanted to purchase it. Donald tested heavy construction equipment such as bulldozers, scrapers and loaders. He would go all over the country building roads with the new machines and testing them out. (14:55) He did that until the time he was discharged. One piece of advice Donald would like to share with future generations is to love your country, and do what you can to make it better. Think of the country and not think about yourself. America is a great place and we’re very fortunate to live here. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hopper, Donald (Interview outline), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hopper, Donald Description An account of the resource Donald was born in Sault Saint Marie, Michigan on December 14, 1933. He was seven years old when Pearl Harbor was bombed and remembers well life around his town during the war. When the Korean War erupted, he decided to join the United States Marine Corps. He was sent to boot camp in San Diego, California and then to Advanced Combat Training at Camp Pendleton, California. After his training, Donald was sent to Virginia where he took a course on topographical survey and later tested new construction equipment for Marine Corps use. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Zaenglein, Michaela (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-05-23 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HopperD1509V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8984308463273af78719ecbd681718a9.m4v 8d0ee3ebb38d45be0868cbe8599fe5bc https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7f8228a2f57b0abdf8cc4ab7da82561c.pdf 7658fa805e47bc017946a2f8c705f951 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Mike Higgins Length: 39:05 (00:05) Background Information   Mike was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on October 20, 1951 He was drafted into the Army and served in Vietnam (1:15) Training  Mike was first sent to Detroit with many other men for physicals and shots  Then they took a bus to Fort Knox, Kentucky where they continued with more tests and all had to get haircuts  He went through leadership school for 2 weeks after he finished basic training  Mike was very sick when he was first sent to Kentucky and it all made his basic training even worse for the first few weeks (7:50) Vietnam  They left on a jet towards Vietnam, but no one really had a good idea of where they were going or what was going on  Stepping off the plane was a huge shock because it was so terribly hot and humid in Vietnam  Despite the weather, Mike thought the country was very beautiful with many mountains and vegetation  He started with running perimeter patrols around a base where some support helicopters were held  They sometimes took ground fire, but Mike was never wounded  There were many racial problems between the American soldiers on his base and eventually all their weapons were taken away  Whenever there was an emergency, the men would have to hurry to get in line and receive their weapons (13:30) Average Days  Mike worked with all different types of people and learned to get along well with others  He felt he was a patriotic person, but the Vietnam war really made him lose trust in the government and he is now a much more cynical person  Mike wrote letters to his friends and family; some men recorded messages on cassette tapes  He felt that he had no control of what was going on while in Vietnam; it was very frustrating that they all fought for so long and then just gave up � Mike really missed his family and American food while in Vietnam (24:00) Leaving Vietnam  Mike never took any time on leave or R & R, so he was able to leave Vietnam a few months early  The paper work to get discharged and all the processing took forever  After going through all the processing, the Army would still send in a recruiter to see if the men would re-enlist  Mike arrived at an air base in California where there were many civilians waiting  Some of the people waiting were mean and calling them names, but the majority of civilians were nice to them  Mike took a plane back to Michigan and met his family at the airport  He later felt sick when he learned that the US was pulling out of Vietnam without finishing the war  He was relieved that the war was over, but sad about all the wasted lives and the fate of the South Vietnamese (31:15) After Service  Mike kept in touch with a few friends after he was discharged, but he was more focused on getting on with his old life  He took an apprenticeship in took and dye and began taking classes at Grand Rapids Community College  Mike learned a lot while in the service and while stationed in Vietnam, but would never do it again  He gained much discipline, learned to work well with different types of people � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Higgins, Mike (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Higgins, Mike Description An account of the resource Mike Higgins was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on October 20, 1951 and was drafted into the Army during the Vietnam War. He went through basic training at Fort Knox, Kentucky and then went to leadership school for 2 weeks. After training he was sent to Vietnam on jet and was completely shocked when he got off the plane by the very hot and humid weather. Mike worked as a cook in Vietnam and also on guard duty. He did not experience much combat, and reports of racial tensions at his base were so bad that some of the soldiers were disarmed most of the time. He was never injured and never took time off on leave or for R & R, so he was able to leave Vietnam a few months early. Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-05-31 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HigginsM Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b43d2e98c5571e97508e4ef929acc3df.m4v f1c9031bb1b66541c1a00143551b69f2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/29855bbd052b188dca80c60ca458cf74.pdf 1e2744ebef1bdc64f5496c44a84c7246 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Vietnam Interviewee: James Herrick Length of Interview: 00:46:10 Background:  Born May 21, 1947 in Kentucky  Served in Army, highest rank sergeant  Born in Kentucky, he was the front end of the baby boomers.  Both his father and his father-in-law served in WWII.  His dad worked as a retail clerk for Sears his whole life and his mother was a housewife. He is the oldest of four siblings.  Before he entered the service he had graduated high school and had taken one semester of college. He dropped out due to financial issues.  The pay that would come from the Army was very tempting, even though America was in the middle of the Vietnam War.  Because of the school he wanted to attend college on the GI bill, he decided to enter the Army. He was a volunteer, though the draft was very much in effect at the time.  He joined the Army because they had the lowest contract of time that he would have to served, at three years. The Army would also guarantee his education at the school of electronics, for radar. Training: (4:30)         The Army had two types of training: basic training and Advanced Infantry Training, or AIT. His basic training was at Fort Knox. When he trained there, Fort Knox was still focusing on training armored troops, so he would often see tanks and heavy weapons being used. It would often shake him up and distract him from his training. His AIT focused on combat engineering. It was cool for him because he got to blow stuff up. He worked with many different types of mines and plastic explosives while he was there. After his AIT training, he would then spend 8 months of electronics training at the Army Signal School at Fort Monmouth, New Jersey. As a volunteer in the Army he would spend a year in training that would later help him to get a job, and had two years left. Draftees had to serve two years. So even though he would spend as much time out in the field as draftees, he would have a year of training, which he found very beneficial. When he entered the Army at 19, he at first thought of it as an overgrown Boy Scout camp, so he found it very easy to adapt to military life. �   He said that because he knew when his end date was, it was easy enough to tolerate just about anything. One time while he was in basic training, his commanding officer had told him to “give him ten” which he would reply with a smart alack comment and had to give his CO 20 instead. It would be then that he would earn his “candy stripes” as a sergeant. Adapting to the food and barracks was never a problem for him either. In fact, he would have a certain appreciation for whatever he was given to eat and the bunk in the barracks was no different from his twin bed at home. Post Training: (9:55)     Before he had even joined the Army, he was engaged. The wedding plans were then wrapped around when he would be out of training. He would be married after his training at Fort Monmouth. His social life did not suffer so much. Although he did miss people back home, there were letters to keep in touch and he would make new friends in the Army. The first time he flew in a plane was during his basic training. At first he had taken a jet, which was smooth sailing, and then he had to transfer over to a prop plane, which was a completely different experience. When it was time to go to Vietnam, he would take the longest plane ride he had ever experienced, stopping at many places because there was not a big enough plane to get one halfway round the world at the time. Active Duty (12:55)           He arrived in Vietnam on New Year’s Eve. When he had first got off the plane, he thought to himself ‘Well time to pack up and go home, because it is too hot here.’ He then began looking for experienced soldiers who had been there a while to learn more about the area and what had been happening thus far. When they handed him an M-16, he had no idea what it was. He had trained with an M14 and a Carbine, but definitely not anything like this. When he went to practice with is new weapon, it would be the first time he would shoot a fully-automated weapon. He really enjoyed it. He would arrive in Vietnam the year of the Tet Offensive [1968]. Staying in the Saigon region, he considered himself relatively safe. As a trained radar technician, he would use search radar. He had to learn a little bit about the new radar gun, which was relatively small compared to earlier years. Some of the guys he had worked with lived differently than he had. He considers himself sheltered compared to some of the others. Some of the guys, especially the draftees, around him had trouble being away from home, or just being alone in general. These were hardships that never had bothered him, most likely because he was a volunteer. While he was there, he would also replace a technician who was supposed to test, calibrate and fix any of the equipment that needed attending too. Although this was not �                  the job he trained for, he had the most electronics training and his commander asked him to do this job as well. (19:00) The job itself was fairly simple enough to figure out and he had no trouble adjusting to his new job. The military manuals would be a great help. They worked relatively long days and with a two hour break after chow time that night. Usually they would play volleyball because of the confined space. After that they would go back to work for a couple of hours more. He would return from Vietnam early, near Christmas time. He would work in a machine tool company that creates control tools for different machines. It was a good job. Not long after his return he would have a baby. He would also go back to school for an engineering degree, which was about 9 months after he got back. Although he was in Vietnam for the Tet Offensive, he did not see any actual combat. The mortars however were always annoying. Cu Chi, the base camp where he would stay for most of his service. It was a very large base camp containing a small airstrip. The camp would contain battalion level maintenance. The camp itself was in a relatively safe area, maybe 25-30 miles away from Saigon. In fact, it would probably have been safe enough to travel without a rifle. (26:05) The night that the combat did start he was on bunker duty on the other side of camp, so he never really experienced it. Whenever he did get close to combat it would be the Viet Cong throwing mortars at them. Just when things would start to settle down, they would have more mortars thrown at them. Eventually, he would just sleep in the bunkers. When one of the firebases would need something fixed, he was always given a choice if he wanted to go out there or not. Usually he had the equipment brought to him, though a couple times he did go out there. For the most part it, the chances of being in actual combat were relatively low, unless you volunteered specifically for that. He recalls the ratio of 7 or 8 support units for every combat unit. While he was over there, he would make friends with some of the other electrical engineers, but did not make any lasting friendships. While there was some communication after he got back, there was very little. Communication with the people back home was kind of a joke for him. By the time the letter he sent had gotten back to his loved ones, and they get back to him, he could not really remember what he had written them. Because of the time between giving and receiving letters, it was useless to talk about problems because they were either so bad, there was nothing you could do, or they were solved. Instead it was easier to talk about things like the weather or future plans Receiving letters from home made him feel closer to home. For fun, there were mainly the volleyball games, but there were also card games. But after Tet, they were under a sort of lockdown. To escape the 5 mile camp walls he would volunteer to drive convoy into Saigon. �      On one of those rides, the vehicle in front of him blew up. They thought it was the Vietnamese, but it turned out to be a bad claymore in the trailer itself. (32:30) While he was there he had very little free time. When he did he would read a bit and there would be free time for chapel on Sunday. One of the things he remembers, is on the way to a firebase, his group passed by some Vietnamese working in the rice patties. They weren’t waving like normal so he was worried. Turned out there has been a fight there between the North Vietnamese and the South Vietnamese the day before. When they got to the base, they were not allowed to drive out of there, so they had one of the big helicopters fly the truck out of there instead. He considers himself lucky because he has mostly good memories. The only odd jobs he did were in training, like blowing stuff up. He never would use that skill in the field though. Post War: (38:40)            When the war ended he was already out of the service. He had three kids by then and had other things to worry about. The war had become a thing of the past. His end date was a transition for him. Things are different now when it comes to the soldiers who came home from the war. Now they are appreciated for what they have done. Then the soldiers who came home were despised. There was a tremendous amount of racial strife due to the civil changes occurring in the States. It was not the reception that the guys get now. The family would celebrate, but the public opinion was quite different. Adapting back to civilian life was easy for him too. He got a job right away and things went fairly smoothly. The only problem he had was one night when a neighbor’s truck backfired and he hit the floor. It was embarrassing, but it never happened again. He does not maintain any veteran membership. He considered his military life a very positive aspect of his life. He provided him training and money to get him into a school and a job. Like civilian life, there are some things he did not want to do, but you had to do it anyway. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Herrick, James (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Herrick, James Description An account of the resource James Herrick volunteered for the Army in 1967. He trained as an electronics technician and spent much of his time away from combat, on the base at Cu Chi. He was there through most of 1968, including during the Tet Offensive, but his base received mostly harassment fire, and he did not see combat. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Hop, Dylan (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-04-07 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HerrickJ1066V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b93df45f49e67016c8c33eb84af1fbd7.m4v 76facd1033edb1c2f24d695ee6f09459 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4cd93827bbd5518489d73ba695da3a67.pdf 5aff5e1824b7cc5aadf8febcb9e2c121 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Dale Hemphill Length: 18:47 (00:05) Background Information     Dale was born in Michigan in 1942 and grew up in Niles, MI His parents got divorced when he was 8 years old and he stayed with his father until he was 10 years old He then moved to Indiana with his mother and enlisted in the Navy in 1960 He signed on for 3 years of active duty and 3 years in the Reserves (2:05) Training  Dale was sent to San Diego, California for boot camp where he became part of the drill team and had a great time  He was then sent to a different base in California where he worked as an aviation store keeper (5:10) Alaska  Dale was sent to Alaska where he went through typing courses and later began administrative work  He was also operating heavy duty equipment, and tracking flight information  Dale felt that he was pretty lucky because he never got sent to Vietnam  His whole time in the Navy he was never actually stationed on a ship (10:00) After Service  Dale now designs clothes and other merchandise that show pride in America  He is friends with the man who designed the current version of the American flag  Dale receives many flags from service men overseas that they have signed for him  He has been working on the flag project since 1979, titled Flags Across America  Dale also has his own non-profit organization called Spirit of America  He often speaks at conventions, American Legion, takes part in parades and other clubs for veterans � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hemphill, Dale (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hemphill, Dale Description An account of the resource Dale Hemphill was born in Michigan in 1942 and later moved to Indiana with his mother when he was 10 years old. In 1960 he enlisted in the Navy for 3 years of active duty and 3 years in the Reserves. Dale went through boot camp in San Diego, California and was then stationed in California and later Alaska. After his time in the service he began working on a project called Flags Across America n 1979. He also started a non-profit organization called Spirit of America and he often travels around the country working on his project and organization. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bodnar, Christine (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-11-10 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HemphillD Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b5797bcb5b7f5c282be3d1b06bd3fd0a.m4v 79f91d81deeb5f6e432d8f39acb103d2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/167095013b2c7df20cebbfda33b28d75.pdf c8a5e8b55e164ea609fbfb9f3eda56cd PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Henry Lee Helmink Length of Interview (01:32:05) Background Born in Holland, Michigan, April 15, 1924 Father and mother owned a small farm (near Virginia Park in Allendale) before losing it during The Depression An uncle bought an oil company; began distributing oil Later owned a station in Holland; eventually got out of it His father worked at many different places Once worked at a sugar beet factory Helmink would wait at the back door for his father to get off work; the engineer there would let him in to watch the steam engine work His mother took care of his siblings: five sisters (two older, three younger) and a younger brother Stayed in school through high school, Holland High Lived in the many parks near Virginia Park Remembers hearing about Pearl Harbor (00:02:40)  His mother called in Helmink and a few of his siblings and listened to the living room radio  “Day of Infamy”  Was a junior in high school, knew what he would be doing next year; his mother was upset and worried about it Wasn’t thinking about enlisting, at the time; talked with his buddy about it in school (00:3:40) Both went to enlist in the Air Corps with a travelling unit in Muskegon � If they didn’t make it into the Air Corps, would join the Navy instead; didn’t want to be “Dough Boys” Helmink passed the test, but his friend (Sonny) didn’t  Sonny was one point off on his written test; told he could come back in six months to try again  Ended up joining the Navy after one more failed attempt  Helmink didn’t see him during the war Graduated from high school in 1934 (00:04:40)  Had signed up in October of that year; was working at a job: machine shop  Tool-and-Die apprentice Was in the newspaper already that he was going to be called into duty  This was the first his boss (superintendent) heard of it; was a little upset as he had just hired Helmink Could have gotten a deferment (job dealt with bearings and engines), but his mind was already set Very interested in aircraft Had been in an airplane previously, in an open biplane  Before final approach, the pilot shut off the engines and all he could hear was the wind whistling through the guidelines  His younger brother was with him, as well Basic Training (00:07:00) Called in January 27 (1943) Went to the train depot in Detroit (met with his older sister and her family while there); headed off to Miami Beach Many of the men were from Midwest Remembers the train ride being uncomfortable (hard seats, arms made of grape-iron); made a bed out of the chairs with another guy named Caseman �The next morning, stopped at Cincinnati; had breakfast there that had been prepared at a depot (Army) Got a little rough near Georgia, lots of hills Some cars, in between the old coaches, were old mail cars with wooden stoves Would cook hot dogs over them and eat it with peaches and mashed potatoes By the time they would get back to their seats, the paper plate and food were a mess; was a fun time Wasn’t sure where they were going until a little ways; went right to Miami Beach, Florida (00:09:30) Put into a nice hotel, but it was all stripped, except a bed One fellow could play the single piano that was there Many of the men caught colds Put four to six men in a room; wooden bunk beds First part of training: marching on a golf course (00:10:25)  It was funny because many of the guys were in sports coats and white shirts: no uniforms, yet Had Puerto Rican drill sergeants; were really short, loud, snappy guys, very fun and tolerant Learned how to march in a week, good formation Also did calisthenics, running; got in good shape Many of the guys were Helminks’s age; some were married (23-26 years old) After a couple of weeks, went up to Wittenberg College in Ohio (00:12:05)  Studied calculus and some sciences, English courses � Did what one would do in one year of college  Had excellent instructors, college professors  A lot of emphasis in health, athletic instruction Originally, two years of college were required to get into the Air Corp.s, but pilots were needed There for four months; some men were there less time because of their experience and education Pre-Flight Training (00:14:00) Went by train to Santa Ana, California for pre-flight and classification  Learned meteorology, Morse code, more calisthenics, psycho-motor tests (lots of them)  Tests included: depth perception, reaction time, etc.; remembers a particular test with a phonograph (00:14:30)  Air craft identification; given only 1/5 of a sec to recognize an aircraft (all the German and Japanese aircraft) Being prepared for actual flying and combat conditions; learned things that became secondnature, “be part of the airplane,” reflexes Classification Center: given a sheet to sign up for a certain job (didn’t always get that job); Helmink chose to be a pilot (00:16:05) Even went to night classes for Morse code Given a note on their sacks; Helmink became a pilot; some men were navigation or bombardiers  Needed to be commissioned for these designations  Some washed out, didn’t hear of them afterwards (some end up as engineers, etc.) Flight Training (00:18:00) There for 17 weeks Hadn’t gone home; finished pre-flight Started flight training; Tucson, Arizona, Ryan’s School of Aeronautics (private field, west of Tucson) Plane developed from a racing plane, BT-12’s (low-wing, open cockpit) Six men assigned to an instructor; J.N. Taylor, civilian instructor �Remembers the first time he flew in the plane (00:19:20)  Had one square mile of black top; going in triangle formation  Had to signal in order to communicate to the pilot (instructor)  Thought that he wasn’t going to get sick; instantaneously after that thought, Helmink became sick  Had to clean the plane after landing o Very common occurrence; had a friend who got sick every time o Friend had gotten through due to his grades in high school Helmink really enjoyed the training; had fabulous ground instructors (00:21:37)  Fly during the morning, ground training in the afternoon (calisthenics)  Reverse every other day  All instructors were enthusiastic and knowledgeable Read manuals usually after supper, had much to study; would talk with the other cadets Next was basic flight training with the Low Wing Ball T: big canopy, two pilots, bigger plane (00:22:40)  A flight inspector came in, gave instructor the permission to show the plane  Very low belly, “basement;” had runners as the floor; had many instruments  Learned to use the instruments, night flying, cross-country, formations  Eventually flew solo  In Bakersfield, California; Minter’s Field (non-civilian airport); all pilots Army Air Corp.  A lot more military approach, like military school In Tucson and Santa Ana, didn’t go off base much (L.A.) (00:24:55) Advance Flight Training (00:25:40) Early February ’44; Advanced Flight Training; Douglas, Arizona (south of Tucson) �Learned to fly twin-engine airplane; Cessna UC-78, “Bamboo Bomber”  Made of metal tubing with canopy covering; good planes  More instrument and cross-country flying  Instrument tests, required once a year A squadron leader (Captain Renny) tested him; flew in an AT-9  AT-9: engines ahead of the cockpit, very streamline, all metal Passed the test, given a white card, “released from instrument flying”  The only time he flew that plane Helmink never got in an accident (00:28:00) UC-78 landing gear, after being tucked in, sticks out about half a wheel Can always hear communication between the tower and the crew (to get everyone used to the lingo) over a com Heard over the com that a plane was having trouble with their landing gear (jammed) Everyone could see what was going on On that particular plane had to crank the lever many times to pull in the landing gear (crank 1300 times) Some planes had wooden propellers and others steel; this particular plane had wooden or “twin-bested cubs” Had to glide all the way down; turned off the engine and leveled it off with the starters, propellers horizontal; instructor had managed to land the plane without a scratch Assignments (00:30:00) Assigned to a combat unit after advanced flight training Had a large graduation class (500 students); in a large auditorium where assignments were being handed out Some men were lucky to get B-25 planes; B-25’s better to fly than B-17’s Transition school: learned to fly that plane �Some men were held back to be instructors for B-25’s; had never flown one before Helmink was going to be assigned this with seven other men, but Helmink’s name was then called over the com Handed new orders to go to Louisville, Kentucky (00:31:45)  Troop-Tick Carrier Command  Got to go home for the first time; delay in route (went back to Holland)  Remembers a woman behind him saying, “I wonder why that guy isn’t over in the war fightin’.” Laughed about it Went back to Louisville had different orders Syracuse, New York (00:33:00) Had DC-3’s there or C-47’s; learned to fly them; transition  1,000 horsepower engines, weighed about 35,000lbs. (loaded)  Started to learned low level flying; flew over Lake Placid  Being trained to fly in Burma (didn’t know this at the time)  Dropping logs over clearings, “bundle dropping”  Would hope to hit a target on the ground  Night flying, formation, single engine A lot of hills there, “lawn-mowing” There for a couple of months Orders back to Louisville, Kentucky (00:34:50) Three plants producing C-46’s there (Stannerford), Helmink was going to fly them Tested out by six test pilots for the C-46’s; quite a few hours of flying with them to be checked out C-46 vs. C-47 (planes rated by horsepower)  C-46 had two Pratt-Whitney Engines with 2000 horsepower each � C-47 had only 1050 horsepower engines  C-46, fully loaded, weighed 50,000lbs; could carry 10,000-12,000lbs.  C-47 could carry only 6,000-7,000lbs.  109ft. wingspans  Built well, reliable engines Already in the service for two years, didn’t think that the war would end before they finished training (00:36:25) Fourth Combat Cargo Group formed when Helmink arrived in New York  Four squadrons (13th, 14th, 15th, 16th)  Put in the 14th Squadron  Ended up in Louisville to finish training Picked up 100 new planes in Fort Wayne, Indiana; Army Air Force Base Got a brand new C-46 with only four hours on it Went to Florida Had a co-pilot, radio operator, crew chief (very important, stayed with the plane)  Would get used to certain people and ask for them to be assigned to the plane  Before Fort Wayne, had a guy picked out for crew chief  The crew chief then had someone picked out for radio operator  Never knew who would be co-pilot, varied often o Co-pilot would sometimes take over pilot duties Spent three days at West Palm Beach (00:38:40)  Learned how to ditch; getting out life rafts, etc. � Had the whole crew training, even the ground crew (18 people) The crew sat in seats that were on the side; removed the seats when arriving overseas  Never had any paratroopers, so didn’t put the seats back in Had to get creative: would make bunks from what they had; pile bags, etc. Karachi, India After the third day of training, took off to Puerto Rico (00:39:50) Had a sealed letter that they could open one hour into the flight, their orders Being sent to Karachi, India  Puerto Rico, flew down to the West Indies  Flew west to Brazil (Belem), landed; passed the equator and the Amazon mouth  Spent a night in each place  Natal, Brazil, spent an extra day there; 25 hour inspection o Crew chief and ground crew very busy o Went into the town, a lot of jungle  Flew to Ascension Island in the middle of the Atlantic o Did all their own navigation; navigator used a sextant when flying to the island o C-47 had a bubble over the top, so the navigator could use the sun o Would chart a heading often, did an arc of 40 miles to reach the island  Had another plane following them, didn’t have a navigator of their own  From Ascension Island to Accra, Ghana (Gold Coast at the time); the navigator finally got to sleep (only did ocean hops, sent back to US when arriving in Karachi)  Flew across South Central Sahara, stayed there for a night  From there to Khartoum, Sudan �o People in Accra were much darker than the people in South Central Sahara, more Arabian  Flew around Aden (southern Arabia); couldn’t fly through it because of the danger of headhunters  Arrived at Karachi; Thanksgiving Day, 1944  Total of 13 days flying Wasn’t feeling tired, was an adventure; everything was a big adventure for him (00:44:45)  Didn’t have as many connections to worry about as other men did Got a full-fledged turkey dinner when they arrived on base, excellent meal Took off after being fuel up and flew to Selet, India  Northeast corner of India, near the foothills of the Himalayas, next to Burma Army Corp. of Engineers had set up a camp with revetments (a large circular wall on top of black top) for the planes; protection from bombings Called it “Skunk Hollow;” had a lot of hills and strange trees, a lot of wildlife, too  Tigers, monkeys, panthers, snakes, mongooses  Had cement-floor buildings with bamboo structures with thatch roofs; had excellent carpenters There for a week, then went back to Karachi (00:48:10) Flew a couple flights out of Selet; Imphal, where Merrill’s Marauders had established an area after fighting of the Japanese  Engineers had started to put down landing strips  Carrying supplies Went back to Karachi; assigned to a British airbase (00:48:50) Testing gliders; wooden gliders on C-46’s � Looks like a B-26: round fuselage, high mid-wing, tricycle gear; everything glued together  Loaded the glider with 9000lbs. of lead shot in little bags; would attach to Helmink’s plane  Made nine tows  A pedestal was bolted down to the back; engines had wire sensors on each spark plug to check temperature, etc.  The glider cuts loose on its own Got to fly in the glider once, had an Australian test-pilot who usually flew it (00:50:25) Were being towed behind a Halifax 4-engine Bomber; quite a scary ride Remembers the rope being let go (nylon rope, very stretchy); pilot let the spoilers loose and they began to drop rapidly; aiming to land in the south corner of the field Landed in the dirt and stopped after rolling for 250ft; amazing Very effective for Europe during D-Day Had excellent living conditions; barracks, large dining hall (Indian food), an officer’s club; preferred to eat at a Chinese restaurant (00:53:05) There for about a month; went back to India, south of Selet, on the Indian-Burmese border  Called Argitella  Made a flew flights from there to Burma  P-38’s stationed there, one of the guys had a beautiful dragon painted on the side of his Chittagong (00:55:05) Shortly after that flew to a place called Chittagong; rest of his flight out of there Did a lot of cargo transportation; describes his flights to Bhamo Burma was all jungle; the British would make sure to make level landing fields (bulldoze and cut the jungle down) Had to be careful with ammunition; would fly over a range of mountains they called the “Little Hump” and make sure they didn’t get tail heavy �Had to land on the dirt landing strips; Mandalay had a landing strip laid with red bricks  British had extended it with tarpaper  Japanese had 105mm canons, always out of range (British also had the same guns) Had good facilities in Chittagong; floors were woven bamboo instead of cement (00:58:35) Very hot and humid climate Took shots for malaria; atabrine in the water  Side effects: skin would begin turning yellow Food wasn’t very good; limited memories of eating there  “Milk runs” There for six months; about 480 missions (four times a day) (01:01:25) Didn’t assist in loading and unloading; would watch to make sure they didn’t load too much  One time, was loading thin sheets of iron; the tires on his plane were close to blowing, had to stop them; was going to be a tough flight  Very close call with lifting; asked for the whole strip when landing One fellow had a fire in one of his engines, burned through the wing; lost the whole crew in the crash (01:05:00) Didn’t lose very many planes Total of 100 planes, had 85 crews in the air everyday; other 15 for maintenance, etc. Had the same plane for six months Went up to Myitkyina where they ran a 24 hour clock; could be scheduled to go out at 2AM Landed in a number of fields around Kunming, China The weather was atrocious there, monsoon season  Would take the southern root over the mountains and north going back � “Saddlebacks” o Extreme updrafts and downdrafts that lasted about 5-8 minutes worth of flight o Large buildup of ice on the leads o Lightening, static First time Helmink flew this flight, he was a pilot; met another pilot from Holland, Michigan, Bud Van Lier (01:10:25)  Gave pointers to Helmink; 17,000ft. peak It was scary every time he flew through the rough weather; “scud weather” (01:11:40) Had good fields in Kunming; started with thousands of people carrying large rocks that decreased in size, put sand over it and flattened it Never stayed overnight in Kunming Usually carried 21 barrels of 100-octane gas; aviation fuel, stockpiled Communists were beginning to fight; planning to bomb, heard the sirens going off and they would get out of there as quick as possible (Kunming) Didn’t see any of the American Combat Air Forces (01:14:00)  Protected overhead by British Hurricane fighters; would fly 33,000ft overhead  Had a radio tuned specifically to them  Never saw any Japanese planes except for one time at night Moving Gurkha troops from one field to another; secret night-mission Would turn on their landing lights on as they landed, line up with the person with a weapons carrier’s light Helmink was flying 40,000ft and a plane below him was calling in when the airfield was lit up with explosions The fellow flying below him was a Betty Bomber (a Japanese bomber) which is the same size as a C-47 Had dropped anti-personnel bombs �The Japanese bomber pilot spoke perfect English, couldn’t tell Had formation lights to identify planes (blue color) Had a close call in Chittagong with a runaway propeller (01:17:40)  Curtiss Electric Propellers: four-bladed, 14ft. diameter, pitch controlled electrically  Sometimes the propellers would go into really high pitch; over speed  Was taking off nicely, when he was suddenly turning because of the high pitch  Had to hit the toggle switch to stop it  Was having a hard time stopping, ran into the mud of the unfinished airfield November 1945, Helmink and his squadron were being taken back to Chabwa (India) (01:19:40)  Had blown up the planes instead of taking them back  150lb bombs Arrived in Chabwa in the afternoon; next morning go on a DC-4 (4-engine passenger airplane) and flown to Karachi Put on a general-class troop ship; first day to see Mt. Everest Took about 28 days to make it back; went through the Suez Canal Ran into a North Atlantic storm, 40ft. waves; very harrowing Arrived in New York Harbor on Christmas Eve Taken over to Fort Dix where they got rid of their foot lockers and bags Took a cab to Times Square with some guys and ate three meals that night (couldn’t eat any of the good food on the ship due to the weather)  Once hit a monster wave that made them loose control of the gutter; could hear all of the dishes come crashing down in the galley  Heard of a troop ship leaving from South Hampton turned back after losing six sailors Next day, reported to Fort Dix (01:24:45) � Went to Camp Atterbury, Indiana, by train Arrived home on New Year’s Day; remembers coming into Holland Station His folks and girlfriend knew he was coming back Remembers thinking how everything was like a dream when seeing a crossroads of railroads Got a job in GM, tool-and-die Felt like he didn’t change much; talked with a lot of the other guys about what they were going to do afterward (01:26:35)  Helmink seriously considered staying in the Air Corp. so he could fly more planes  Got offers from 25 different airlines to fly; other pilots spoke of troubles with being furloughed  Got a letter about joining TWA; took some tests; said he would be hired and have a seat in six months o Had to move if he wanted the job; had to speak to his wife o She didn’t want to go anywhere  Given more offers for corporate flying  Got to fly some jets over the years; flew all the time  Flown, at least, 28 different planes � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Helmink, Henry Lee (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Helmink, Henry Lee Description An account of the resource Henry Lee Helmink of Holland, Michigan, enlisted in 1943 and served during World War II as a pilot in the Army Air Corps. He flew C-46 and C-47 transport aircraft between bases in Burma, India and China, and would drop supplies to troops in the field. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-04-15 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HelminkHL Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7d27134d717332874b038e65e530a5b2.m4v 9b00d96e474e6a6f327facbfaad9dc49 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/be3510ae1f1b4a763cade1b7b0bb41a6.pdf 52b692701b3bba4a8c1067329e6f56a1 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Raymond Hawkins, Sr. Length: 24:09 (00:30) Training     Raymond was serving in the Navy towards the end of the Korean War, working as a communications technician He had enlisted in the Navy in hopes of traveling all around the world, and also because he had not wanted to be drafted into the Army Raymond went through basic training at Great Lakes Naval Academy in Chicago and was then stationed in Alaska He did not think that training was very fun, but it was very educational, learning nautical skills, Navy terms, weaponry, swimming, and survival skills (2:50) Average Days  While working in Aleutian Islands, the men would fish for salmon with their bare hands  He made many good friends and enjoyed working with them  Raymond did not ever see any combat and was able to keep in touch with him family by writing frequent letters  They lived in barracks in Alaska and often went bowling on their time off or watched movies  To learn survival skills they often had to sleep outside in the snow and it was freezing  In Puerto Rico they were able to spend time on the beach during their time off (6:20) Working in the Navy  Raymond had started off in Chicago, and was then sent to California for radio school and security training  They were often working on top secret information with the NSA and he thought many strange things were going on  Raymond got along well with the other men he worked with and his officers  Once he received orders that he was going to be discharged, he was sent from Puerto Rico to Norfolk, Virginia  Raymond had been married while he was in the service and had a son (9:20) Life After Service  It was a very nice day when Raymond was discharged, but he had hoped to travel more while in the Navy  Raymond decided not to re-enlist because his family needed him �     He went back to working at his father’s dental business and was expected to take it over one day, but he wished he had gone to college Raymond still keeps in contact with the men he served with and often emails them He continued to work in his father’s dental business for 40 years and is now retired Raymond has been retired or 12 years and keeps busy with his grandchildren and traveling He spent 4 years in the Navy and now thinks that every young man should spend a few years in the service � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hawkins, Raymond Sr. (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hawkins, Raymond Sr. Description An account of the resource Raymond Hawkins, Sr. served in the Navy during the end of the Korean War. He enlisted in the Navy with hopes of traveling and avoiding being drafted into the Army. Raymond went through basic training at Great Lakes Naval Academy in Chicago, Illinois. He then went through radio school and security training in California before he was stationed in Alaska. Raymond served as a radio technician in Alaska and Puerto Rico and was in the Navy for a total of 4 years. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jacobson, Zachary (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-06-03 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HawkinsSrR Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/74b965fc4808b144c14d233dc348d8ff.m4v 640f378cfe2b4b075bb66279db5ceb30 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cf5703acd434a5e6bfbffa44bcb01276.pdf 820b7633f9fedf24271680a3d223b4ed PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Raymond Hawkins, Jr. Length: 37:44 (00:10) Background Information       Raymond was born on July 7, 1956 in San Juan, Puerto Rico His father had been in the Navy and stationed in Puerto Rico when Raymond was born Raymond was a student at Michigan State University, training in the ROTC before he enlisted in the Army He was commissioned once he graduated and he became a 2nd Lieutenant Raymond was sent to Fort Riley, Kansas for about 1 month of basic training while in the ROTC and also went to Jump School at Fort Benning, Georgia Once he became a 2nd Lieutenant, Raymond was sent to Oklahoma for artillery officer basic training (3:20) Louisiana  After training Raymond was stationed at Fort Polk, Louisiana where it was very hot and there were tons of mosquitoes  Each individual unit there had their own cook and the food was very good  Raymond spent 3 years at Fort Polk before he was sent to Germany for another 3 years  While in Europe he was also able to travel to Spain and Italy  Once Raymond was finished in Germany he was sent to Oklahoma for more advanced training (5:35) Traveling  Once Raymond was off duty he worked as a defense contractor during the beginning of Desert Storm  He later worked in the Reserves through the latter part of Desert Storm  He was also in the Reserves after the 9/11 attack and then called up to serve in Bosnia  He felt Bosnia had once been a “westernized” country and had been torn apart by the war  There were elementary schools that had been turned into refugee areas for homeless people  There were graves everywhere and the men were threatened mostly by snipers  There were seldom ambushed, but there were also landmines everywhere left over from the Cold War  Part of their job was to remove the landmines and take weapons away from civilians (8:35) Working in Bosnia �     Raymond got along well with the other men he was working with and also the Bosnian civilians They used the internet for communications; telephone calls were too expensive They were seldom off duty for leisure and usually working 18 hours a day The men did a lot of logistics work, shipping supplies to soldiers in Afghanistan Overall Raymond had a good experience in Bosnia (11:45) Iraq  After Raymond was sent home from Bosnia, his unit was immediately mobilized again and he was sent back to Oklahoma  They began training other units that were to be deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan  Later that year his own unit was sent to Iraq, which was a very different atmosphere from Bosnia  They were never working at night, but it was still very noisy from all the bombs going off and he was never able to get any sleep  There were always rockets and mortars going off and IUDs on the roads  His unit continued working on logistics and supporting ground troops, driving civilian vehicles  To avoid the IUDs they go very fast, usually 90 MPG  Raymond spent 6 months in Iraq before he was once again sent to Oklahoma (15:55) After Service  Raymond continued training soldiers before they were to be shipped to Iraq or Afghanistan  He was overseas for 3.5 years and only spent 40 days of that time in his actual home on leave  Raymond had been married while overseas and had children, but they were a bit older and only one of them was still in school  His leave was hard on his wife and she was always very worried about him  Raymond found he had become pretty impatient in civilian life  He was used to having to make split second decisions and act quickly (21:41) Looking Back  Raymond is now retired and does not expect to ever be called up again  He felt very good once the Iraqis had their first election and was glad that they were showing the courage to get out and vote  He learned great problem solving skills, leadership, analytical and people skills from being in the Army  Raymond also learned to appreciate the many things Americans take for granted � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hawkins, Raymond Jr. (Interview outline and video) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hawkins, Raymond Jr. Description An account of the resource Raymond Hawkins, Jr. was born on July 7, 1956 in San Juan, Puerto Rico. His father was in the Navy and stationed in Puerto Rico at the time. Raymond went through ROTC while attending college at Michigan State University and was commissioned as 2nd Lieutenant once he graduated. He went through basic training at Fort Riley, Kansas and then through jump school at Fort Benning, Georgia. While in the service Raymond was stationed in Louisiana, Bosnia, and Oklahoma before he was discharged. He then worked as a defense contractor during Desert Storm and was serving in active duty in the Reserves during the second Iraq war. Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HawkinsJrR Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/24c2cee3d482970f9cb624eef4e101c9.m4v d3308ad31643532ef901213475bd0d06 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/684f06a4affd709ee6b37102ea09921d.pdf dd0effa68815aaed1f799cba0783a36a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II and the Korean War Era Peter Haven (as told by wife Carol and daughter Eloise) (36:40) Introduction (00:20)    Carol Haven worked for Gordon Food Service and she also worked at a Sonoco Station. She graduated from High School in 1933. After high school, she had relatives that worked at the Grand Rapids Brass Company and she was able to work there running a drill press. She worked there until she was married, on December 7, 1940. (02:16) China (2:20)          Her husband was in the service at the time, serving in China. His sister-in-law was Carol’s Sunday school teacher and that is how they were introduced. Her husband, Peter, was in the Army and in China from 1936 – March 4, 1938 and served as a library clerk for the 15th Infantry. (3:10) In China he was stationed at Kinjin One story that was relayed to his daughter, Eloise, fifty years later was that her father and his friend were sitting on the bank of a river and a group of Japanese soldiers had captured a little Chinese girl, gang raped her and then beheaded her. They proceeded to throw her body in the river. The US soldiers loved the Chinese, and Peter was a translator. One job he did was to help officiate weddings and verify who was who. Pictures that Peter had were of bodies stacked up, the invasion, and how the Japanese used the Chinese for bayonet practice, and other atrocities. (5:32) When he was learning Chinese, he approached a farmer and tried to say “may we have your wife do our laundry?” but after he said “may we have your wife” he couldn’t find the page that told him how to finish it and the farmer came at them with a hoe. He made a comment about what war does to you after seeing all the bodies and death. (6:25) Stateside (6:30)       After leaving China in 1938, the 15th Infantry was stationed at Fort Lewis, Washington. At the end of his four year enlistment in 1938, he returned home to Michigan. Shortly after he got home, Carol met him. He was working at a car place somewhere at the time. They knew each other for about two years before they got married. (7:45) In 1940 they were married, and Peter was paying close attention to world events in Europe and in China. � Peter remained in the reserves, and after a week of marriage, he was recalled to active duty. Recalled to Active Duty (9:00)          He was sent to Fort Custer, and remained there for some time. From there, he was sent to Fort Hood, Texas. (9:46) Carol joined him there in 1943 and it was her first time on a long train ride. In Texas, Peter was working as Military Police at the Provost Marshal'ss Office. They had a son born that was the result of a three day pass. (11:50) Life in Grand Rapids stayed relatively the same, with some rationing being implemented. They did not have much trouble getting things that they needed even with the rationing going on. (13:44) When Pearl Harbor was attacked, they were at a restaurant eating out, celebrating their wedding anniversary. When Peter had to leave, Bishop's Furniture Company, stored their furniture for five years while they were away for free. (15:25) Texas (15:50)       Carol brought her son and he really enjoyed the train ride. They got an apartment on base, and she put borax around the windows and doors to keep out the cockroaches. At the time, Peter was a staff sergeant. During the day, Carol would attend services for the families and got together with other wives and families. (17:56) There was a little town off base, which they went to. At the grocery store the prices were higher for soldiers than for the locals. Europe (19:13)          Peter was eventually shipped out to Europe, and Carol went back to Grand Rapids. She wrote him a letter everyday. He wrote when he could. His letters were censored by the military, and they had large lines that were blanked out. He wrote about his family and his son. He told a story that he was looking at the water, and that was censored. (21:50) Peter was serving with the quartermaster and by Normandy; he talked about digging a foxhole. The family has about three volumes of V-mail that he had sent. Peter said that he loved the people in England. (23:10) He also used to give part of his c-rations away, such as his cigarettes. Peter was in Europe until around 1945, when there was a B-17 that crashed into the Empire State Building, and Carol feared that Peter was on it. He was still in Europe. (25:05) Back to the States (25:30) � Once home, Peter eventually got a job at General Motors.  Peter remained in the inactive reserves, and was recalled for Korea. Korean War (27:14)    He was stationed at Fort Benjamin Harrison in Indiana. Back home, Carol remained in Grand Rapids at their apartment. His family believes that he worked as a troop handler of some kind, helping new recruits get to their proper duty stations. After the Wars (29:00)       Peter loved fishing, but his friends wanted him to go hunting, but he said “I heard enough gunfire in Europe, I don’t want to hear it here at home”. One story that was later revealed happened back in China when a rickshaw driver was being attacked by three Japanese soldiers and he broke off a tree branch and beat the Japanese. (30:55) The next day, a Japanese officer claimed that his Japanese soldiers were attacked by six American soldiers, unprovoked. No record has been found of the incident. (32:18) Peter may have been the first reservist called into duty from Grand Rapids. While her father was away, Eloise remembers the old record player that her father bought at the PX, they used to listen to old radio programs such as Boston Blackie, Green Door, The Stranger, The Shadow, before they had television. (34:22) Carol recalls that her son celebrated his first Christmas in Texas; the Army provided a meal for the families in the PX. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Haven, Peter (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Haven, Carol Haven, Eloise Description An account of the resource Carol Haven lived in Grand Rapids during World War II. Her husband, Peter, served in the United States Army and was sent to China, Europe and served in the states during Korea. He was a member of the 15th Infantry in China and was there from 1936-1938. In 1940 the two were married and a week later he was recalled to active duty because of the escalating conflict in Europe. During World War II, Peter worked for the Military Police in the US and in Europe. He was recalled again during Korea, and served in the US. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-02-14 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HavenP0342V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cef9801ad3d312781764526cd73f6764.m4v ce1353f834ac0fcfdf153d2f387dc4fb https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/de320bf439d32f9f0da282923ce45f9e.pdf e1be278337449eda4c64a6c634dc4429 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Desert Storm Era/Operation Iraqi Freedom Era Steve Hammond (1:49) Introduction (0:14)       Steve was born in Ionia, Michigan in 1964. He grew up there and graduated from high school in 1982. His dad worked for Consumers Power for over thirty two years and his mother worked for the U.S. Department of Agriculture. His family has a rich history of military service, his earliest relative, Daniel Wilson served in the Revolutionary War, he has found some Civil War veterans also one of which named Aaron Essex, is buried at the Veterans Cemetery on Monroe. He was in the New York Infantry. His grandfather was in World War I. (2:33) Steve’s dad and two of his dad’s brothers served in World War II. His dad graduated from high school in Ionia in 1944. After his father finished his basic training, he was put on a train that headed west to San Francisco. However, the train was late which caused him to miss his ship. Later he found out that the ship he missed was sunk in the battle of Leyte Gulf. (4:50) He served in the Seabees, and went to New Guinea and Guam. If the atomic bomb had not been dropped, his father most likely would have been sent to Japan, and could have been killed. (6:25) Joining the Military (6:33)       After working at a fast food restaurant, Burger Chef, he decided he would check out the military, part-time. He found out about a chef job, and then switched to a communications job. He had joined the Army National Guard. He went to Fort Jackson, South Carolina for his basic training. (8:08) Motivation for completing his training was his dad’s poor health. Not wanting to redo his training, he stayed with it. The National Guard did not have a good reputation since Vietnam. Training (10:55)    National Guardsman go through the same basic training as the regular Army, which is 8 weeks. Arriving at Fort Jackson, he is received in civilian clothes, and is then issued his military uniforms and a haircut. Steve struggled with the training because he knew that he was just going to be part-time and did not understand why he had to go through the regular training. He found out years later that it was in case he was activated. (12:29) �     Most of the men were not in good shape when they arrived. Steve could do two push-ups in two minutes when he arrived, once he completed training he could do fifty in two minutes. Along with physical conditioning, his training also consisted of rifle training with the M16, he had trouble sighting it in and aiming. While he struggled, he passed his rifle qualification. (14:16) During his bivouac week, he and his buddy were on a live fire range, he ran out of ammo before he could finish the exercise. He liked the control environment of the range. (16:28) He also had to do several different aptitude tests, including the ASVAB. Advanced Training (17:31)     Upon completion of his basic training, Steve was sent to Fort Gordon, Georgia for the Signal Corps to train for combat telecommunications. Land line teletype systems were used, and his training had lots of typing, generator use and field exercises. Everything was computerized. He credits the technology to the Commander-in-Chief, Ronald Reagan, for putting an emphasis on military technology. (19:47) This course lasted twelve weeks. After his advanced training, he was sent to his home unit. Home Unit (21:31)        Steve was attached to the 107th Supply and Service Battalion, in Ionia, Michigan. He was there from 1983 till late 1987. His job was to set up land line teletypes on field exercises and field telephones. The commitment to serve was one weekend a month, and two weeks during the summer when they went to Camp Grayling. (23:45) His service was done within Michigan, except when he went to schools such as at Camp Ashland, Nebraska which was an NCO (non-commissioned officer) training school. This school lasted about two weeks. When he went to the school he was an E-4, Specialist, and the school qualified him to pick up the next rank, sergeant. Promotions are slower in the National Guard compared to the regular Army. (25:40) Unit Transfer (26:21)      156th Signal Battalion, located in Ypsilanti, Michigan became Steve’s new unit from 1987 till 1993. He was working full-time at the prison, and he worked part-time for the Guard. He didn’t need any further training when he switched to the new unit. During Desert Storm, his unit was training to go to the Middle East. His unit was never activated. (29:05) His unit would work with other units to set up radio communications, like an engineer unit from the Upper Peninsula. �    He never liked the Governor’s Parade, and today doesn’t have much respect for politicians because he had to stand in formation and listen to the Governor speak, which often took a long time. (32:30) During Katrina, George W. Bush was blamed for not sending the Guard in to help, but the Pentagon can call up any unit at any time. His unit also trained for riots. Such as that in Detroit in 1993. He was almost extended because of the near-riot after a man was beat with flashlights by police. Nothing happened and he got out. (35:20) After ten years in the Army National Guard, he got out. Air National Guard (37:44)         His first deployment with the Air National Guard was to Alpena. Steve wanted to travel, and go overseas. So he became a mechanic with the A-10s. But later switched to the Civil Engineers, and was a plumber. (39:05) He was in the Air Guard beginning in March 1997. While in, he trained with personnel from NATO countries and other allies such as Canada, England, Latvia, Saudi Arabia, France and Israel. (41:02) At this time, he is still working full-time in corrections. His unit earned an outstanding award after training in Alpena, Michigan. RRR, Rapid Runway Repair, a task done during combat operations to quickly get runways repaired after being bombed by the enemy. He had to train for this in full chemical gear. One man passed out and Steve yelled to a major to call an ambulance, which he did. (43:29) Saudi Arabia (45:02)        Steve’s first big deployment was to Saudi Arabia in 2000. He had just been married, and his wife was seven months pregnant. They flew from Battle Creek to Detroit then to Baltimore, Ireland, Egypt, Kuwait and finally to Saudi Arabia. (48:29) The windows had to be shut and the lights off when flying into Saudi. They had a two plane escort, and when they landed, they had all Christian articles such as Bibles, crosses, stars of David, and all pornography taken, even Sports Illustrated or pictures of women playing sports. For this deployment he was given the anthrax shots, and he avoided his fourth shot. (51:07) At 1am in Kuwait it was 110 degrees, and when they got to Saudi Arabia at 8am it was 120 degrees in the shade. They were advised to just drink water. Having to remain hydrated, he had to urinate a lot and had to take his time doing things. Saudi Arabia is a kingdom not a nation, and it made him appreciate our freedom as Americans more than before. (53:10) Steve was based outside of Riyadh, and he was there about three weeks. He was ordered to stay on the base. Only a few people every month were allowed to leave base, and they had to be active duty. The soldiers had to wear covers over there body, both men and women, and the women would be hassled for walking in front of men. They were also encouraged to stay away �   from public executions that took place on Friday’s. These were done for crimes such as adultery. (55:52) The beginning of August he was able to come home. The plane reversed course on the return trip. The pilot said “Welcome to the United States” and everyone onboard cheered and clapped. (57:00) While in the airport in Baltimore, six men were missing when it was time to leave, they ended up leaving two men behind, and they arrived the next day. (59:26) At a retirement ceremony for one of the men left behind, Steve wanted to know where he was when they were left behind, and gave him a map of the Baltimore area for his gift. (1:02:04) Stateside, 9/11 (1:02:17)           June 2001, Steve was in the Black Hills of South Dakota, conducting civil engineering training. They traveled all around the area seeing local attractions such as Mount Rushmore, Deadwood, Little Big Horn, Custer State Park, Bad Lands and the Devil’s Tower. September 11, 2001 Steve had just bought a house in Walker (1:04:10) Steve had always wanted to see the World Trade Centers, and to watch them come down really bothered him. He remembers watching Peter Jennings lose it on TV, it was the first time he saw him do that. Watching the towers fall, Steve’s wife was scared that he was going to be activated. (1:06:43) He was given a tour of the Pentagon once, he wondered why they would attack such a solid structure, and thought the Capital building would have been a more demoralizing target, or the White House. (1:08:51) The main target for the US was the training camps in Afghanistan. Security was tightened on his base, requiring ID checks for everyone, even those in uniform. (1:10:13) He didn’t know what was going to happen to his unit, so he packed his bags just in case. As a civil engineer, his unit traveled to Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana, to fix up the area and make improvements. (1:12:23) After his time down south, in 2002, they found out they were leaving around Thanksgiving or Christmas back to Saudi Arabia. Back to Saudi Arabia (1:15:50)      The day after Thanksgiving they left for Battle Creek to go overseas. They went from Battle Creek to Detroit, Baltimore, Cyprus, Kuwait and then to Saudi Arabia. Flying into Saudi, they still had their windows down and lights off, they were flown in with four escort planes. (1:16:55) His role was the same as his previous deployment. They were there for a little over a month, he left just before Christmas. The weather was so much different, because it was winter. The hottest it got was around 65 degrees. (1:18:45) He was kept in the dark about the situation in Iraq and elsewhere. �  Again, he was not allowed off the base, except to fix a water leak near a small town outside of the base. The locals looked at them with hatred just because they were American service members. (1:20:27) His unit was not called to go into Iraq. England (1:22:03)    Steve and his unit were sent to Royal Air Force Base Mildenhall, located just north of London. England was very nice, but expensive. In London protesters were angry about the American presence in Iraq. What he liked best about being in England, every day they played God Save the Queen and then the Star-Bangled Banner. He liked saluting during that time out of respect for our NATO allies. (1:23:58) Israel (1:24:02)         The following year, his unit was sent to Israel in February and March. It was the same type of deployment as before, construction and repair, and they created buildings for United States Marines that were coming there. They went on a tour of the area, rented their own bus and traveled around to see all the sights. Steve was advised not to wear an American Flag or American sports team or university shirts. (1:26:25) At the Wailing Wall, a woman who was deployed with them wanted to go to the men’s side, but was talked out of it by the fact that UN guards were nearby ready to enforce local rules and regulations. (1:29:24) Haggling with a local vendor, Steve bought a paper weight of the city, he was advised by the tour guide never to take the first price that is given. He bought several rosaries for his family and had them blessed by a French priest at the tomb of Jesus. (1:34:00) One of the men with him had his wallet stolen. Back on the 2nd Saudi Tour (1:35:53)     TCN – Third Country Nationals, workers on the base from other countries, mostly from Pakistan. Steve watched some workers that were supposed to be delivering water working on something that he found suspicious, so he reported the activity. Two days later he was given a coin by the Command Chief Master Sergeant for the information that he gave. (1:37:09) The men were doing something in the dirt, near the fuel storage area. Last Deployment and Retirement (1:39:05) �      In Alpena, Michigan, Steve was asked to create a security outline for perimeter defenses. He inquired with other Guard units and a Marine unit to check with their manuals. Some of his ideas were placed in the Air Force manuals later on. He was given an Air Force Commendation Medal for the act. Around this time, he had 22 years in and thought it was time to retire. Steve was an E-6. National Guard and Reservists need to acquire 60 points a year for retirement. He wanted to go a little beyond just to be sure that he was eligible for retirement. (1:42:55) Steve has his pension from the government and will also draw a small check for around $50 a month from the State of Michigan for 20 years of service in the National Guard. (1:45:43) His time in the service affected his whole life. He was his son’s Cub Scout leader, and they wanted him because of his leadership skills and his attention to detail. Now, he is a leader in the Boy Scouts for his son. He carries great pride and faithfulness for his country and the American Flag. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hammond, Stephen (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hammond, Stephen Description An account of the resource Steve was born in Ionia, Michigan in 1964. He graduated from high school in 1982 and later joined the Army National Guard where he served as a telecommunications specialist. In 1997, Steve decided to switch to the Air National Guard because he wanted to travel and see the world. While with the Air National Guard, he transferred to the civil engineer unit as a plumber. He was sent to Saudi Arabia, England and Israel and worked at several military bases within the United States including Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana. He retired from the Guard around 2004. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. National Guard Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-01-29 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HammondS1476V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/39759d115559e7d94165bbc35ab370e5.m4v 743757d787a4cf10a7ddfaebbbb7f506 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d179621f28a366449d26eeb566848855.pdf 24d54c0f3e061d6f9a9c09ff26ac3a4a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project World War II Jim Hallberg Length of Interview (01:20:16) Background Born in Detroit, MI, January 11, 1921; moved around quite a bit Father was a farm insurance specialist, traveled a lot Finished high school, was preparing to go into college, but was called into the service  Graduated from Muskegon High School, 1939 Worked for Meta Pumps until he was drafted in the fall of 1941 Saving money for college, attending Junior College Heard about Pearl Harbor in Ft. Worth, Texas while bowling  Military police came in and told all men in the service to head back to their bases Training/Service (00:03:25) Drafted on October 13, 1941  Reported to Muskegon Armory, then to Kalamazoo for medical examination, then to Battle Creek where the men were split and sent to different forces  Hallberg was sent to Camp Waters, Texas Had been aware of the war going on in Europe, read the papers (00:04:19)  Wasn’t a complete surprise  His brother had been in the first draft [April 1941] Mainly strength training, did okay with this (00:05:06) No problem with the military discipline The other men he was training with had no problems, as well Was assigned KP as few times �Spent 13 weeks training  During training, Pearl Harbor was announced  Thought it was exciting because the war was on 34th Division (00:08:50) Waited for assignment after basic training  Put on a train and was sent east to Fort Dix, New Jersey  Was put on a unit as an RP (Replacement Personnel) Joined the 34th Division, 135th Infantry; National Guard (00:09:32)  Many of the men in that division were put back onto active duty  Hallberg and the other RP’s had to go in to put the unit up to full strength The unit he was joining was friendly and easy to become acquainted with In Fort Dix, was doing training similar to basic training in Texas (00:11:40)  M-1 Rifles, Browning Automatic Rifles, and machine guns  Browning automatic was very heavy  Only trained in small arms, no mortars Sometimes would send whole groups or fractions to do certain types of training (00:12:35)  At the time, the army did not know how to train soldiers for certain conditions  When Hallberg’s unit was sent to North Africa, it was very strange  No special training Went to New York for his honeymoon, had married at that time (00:13:30)  Given four days, the hotel room cost four dollars  Hallberg’s wife stayed only for those few days before going back, couldn’t stay on the base �Europe (00:16:25) A few days later, Hallberg was given orders to be sent out, April of 1942  Ship out on the “Aquitania,” went through the Northern Atlantic  Took the top bunk, bottom bunks were reserved for the men who got sea-sick  Had 4,200 men on the ship, converted ocean-liner, British ship  Sailed with one of the largest convoys, seas were rough  U-boats would skim in and out between the ships (00:18:00)  The seas were high throughout the trip, took about 14 or 15 days  Would train with weapons, tried to keep in shape (00:19:22)  Given two meals a day, ate British food Algeria (00:20:00) Landed in Northern Ireland, formed groups to go on missions to patrol Ulster disguised as sailors on an American Raider  on board cruiser HMS Sheffield, all men wore sailor suits, disguised as British sailors Northern Ireland, landed in April, stayed in a city outside of Belfast (00:21:11) When arriving, was invited by a pro-golf player to play golf, went every day they could to the country club (00:21:27) Hallberg did training when he wasn’t golfing When first arriving, men were split into groups of 600 men (00:22:40)  Was never told why he was chosen to do ranger duty  Didn’t know his mission, knew there would be an invasion in Algeria  Two of the destroyers had a special-built bows designed to break into the barriers around the port �Put on Destroyers at Gibraltar, put back into their military uniform (00:24:05)  Was given his mission and objective then [they were supposed to sail into the harbor at Algiers and seize control of it so that the rest of the fleet could sail in]  If they were given a signal by the Destroyers, they would have to pull back  The signal was given because one of the Destroyers had exploded Began fighting halfway back to the ships, SOS (00:25:25) Was on the “Malcolm,” Hallberg had been the first to step on shore (00:25:58)  Destroyers went right up to the docks, no smaller transport boats  Was planned this way  Went to the area they were supposed to capture, no one was there  Ships were being shot at as they went in, not at the people  Wasn’t told whether or not the French would fight (00:27:20)  Knew groups would be coming in from the east and west, but didn’t know who they were  Never got back to the boat  Put up enough fire to make the enemy soldiers believe they had artillery Captured (00:28:33) Fought nine hours before Hallberg’s group surrendered  Colonel decided this  Hallberg’s group was taken up to the prison  Made of stone and brick, old-fashioned  Most of Hallberg’s group was captured (about 600 men)  Put into housing developments, floors were mosaic and ice-cold  Hallberg got strep throat in November, British medical officer tended to him; took four days to recover � Only had jackets and blankets, no equipment  Were treated okay by their French captors, who soon became allies Division put him on MP duty (00:31:16)  Drove around in jeeps, patrolling and checking in case of trouble with the French  Made sure his group behaved  Couldn’t go to certain places, especially Casbah  Spent about five weeks on this duty Headed out east towards Tunisia (00:33:15)  Very dry, desert-like terrain; in winter it snowed hard  Lots of mud and rain, slept where they could  Four weeks of traveling Captured a few Germans, most surrendered (00:34:44)  First advance dealt with capturing prisoners Kasserine Pass (00:35:28) Sent to Kasserine Pass  First fight was a night attack, a lot of men were killed  Battalion Commander had been a prisoner before the war; was a kind man and good soldier; injured by fall into a grenade ditch  Hallberg was injured in this battle, as well  Couldn’t see much, only saw the enemy in the distance  The Germans were tough soldiers �The Army wasn’t prepared to fight this war (00:37:45)  Didn’t know how to prepare soldiers for fighting  Not well trained  Had only 10 American Tanks and the rest were British Hallberg was injured by walking out into a smokescreen, put there by the Americans, and falling 10 or 12 feet (00:39:33)  Broke four spinous processes in his vertebrae  Couldn’t get an operation, but it wasn’t bad enough to affect his walking  Was sent to the rear  Sent to Oran in a hospital ship  Went on a Weapons Carrier to Tunis, had been in the hospital for two months  Weapons Carrier- a six wheeled vehicle that carries six men with machine guns or small weapons, fairly small vehicle, open top The fighting in Tunisia was just finishing (00:42:50)  Hallberg’s first job was to direct traffic  British and French soldiers there The British were known for brewing tea in the middle of battle (00:43:38)  During battle, the British and Americans cooperated well together Wasn’t assigned a job to deal with surrendering German soldiers (00:45:00) Salerno and Anzio (00:45:34) Prepare for the landing in Salerno by training in Infantry Landing Craft [LCIs]  Given instructions, didn’t go along as a combat soldier  Worked in the kitchen at the HQ, cooked mostly for the personnel Was in one of the firsts waves to land on Salerno, Italy; September 1943 (00:47:36) �It was a bit frightening, went down the sides of the landing craft (LCI), not on a platform (00:48:50)  Doesn’t recall the event very well, just remembers getting off quickly  Headed out to his designated point, kept moving  Germans just heading out Recalls Anzio very clearly (00:50:45)  Had to sleep in dug-outs, stuck out there with nothing  Called for support from the Navy and they shot Big Berthas from an LCI, son of the editor of a newspaper in Hallberg’s hometown was the Commander of the ship  Big Berthas are able to be shot from 20 miles away Between Salerno and Anzio, 34th Division was caught up in quite a bit of the fighting (00:52:10)  A fight in Cassino Hallberg believes that if they had kept going into Rome, it would have been beneficial (00:53:15) The area of Anzio looks quite a bit like Michigan, landed on a beach (00:54:05)  Everyone had to dig in  Americans built an air strip right away  Ran pursuit ships after the Germans Still had a job in the kitchens (00:54:45) Germans would fire every once in a while, but not often (00:54:57)  Germans mainly did air attacks Last day of the War, outside of Bologna, Germans dropped anti-personnel bombs, killed 129 men (00:55:35) Was in Anzio for a couple of months, at most (00:56:15) �Como, Italy was Hallberg’s Division’s last objective (00:56:31) Met a lot of Italian civilians (00:56:43)  Once gave the civilians meat, hadn’t seen it in a long time  Isn’t sure if Italian civilians helped the Americans Stayed away from buildings, slept in tents or in the open (00:57:57) Didn’t stay in touch with people he was in previously, L-Company, 135th (00:58:30)  Was with the Division Headquarters Company  Mark Clark was his Army Commander in the 34th [in Italy] General Patton in Africa (00:59:27)  Fined people for not wearing a part of their uniform  Never had to see his speeches; whenever Hallberg saw him, he wasn’t in a military uniform  An arrogant man Worked for the Division’s Post Office along with his kitchen duties (01:01:35)  The Division had a lot of men  They would send out money and letters often  Had to censor the mail, same as they do today  Had two Japanese-American regiments [battalions]- had the most beautiful handwriting ever; very good fighters Takahashi- one of the Japanese-American soldiers would often speak with Hallberg (01:03:11)  Was treated poorly in America but was respected when fighting the War in Europe  Japanese-American soldiers were excellent soldiers and were wanted by most  Takahashi would talk about internment camps, but was proud of being in the Army �In Algiers, Hallberg was in a foxhole when a mortar shell landed near him, undetonated; he ran as fast as he could away from it (01:05:05) Lake Como, Germans surrender in Italy (01:06:05)  Hallberg saw the executed bodies of Mussolini and his mistress Petacci  The crowd was vehement towards them  Didn’t have to deal with German prisoners, went to Rome Returning Home (01:07:30) In Rome for three weeks, sent to Naples  Hallberg had 39 [89?] points because he was there for so long  Were building B-17’s, with bucket seats, to send men home  Naples to Dakar to Brazil  Got on a new DC-3, flew to the U.S  Discharged from Indiantown Camp (01:09:10)  Was the first time he ever flew an airplane; man from Michigan was flying the plane, attended Hallberg’s high school Went back to work for Norge but they had to lay people off due to financial troubles (01:10:11)  Was laid off because he wanted another man with five kids to keep his job  Went to work for another place and retired from there after 35 years Received a Soldier’s Bonus, and bought a lot to build his house (01:11:20)  Sold the lot to buy another house, received money from a friend, $13,500  Took 16 years to pay it off, was married then �Mrs. Hallberg (01:14:30) Hallberg was the same guy after the War, being a soldier is not the job he would ever want to keep  Had been with the same men for most of the War, 18 men from his hometown  His wife worked while he was fighting Did secretarial work, then went with her family to work at a shop inspecting 40mm shell cases (worked 10 hour days, the people went on strike), left the job to work at the office for GM (General Motors) Hallberg had been gone for 42 months; she kept working when he came back Would watch the newsreels at the theater, wanted to see if her husband was in them The other women were very kind; when Hallberg was in Fort Worth, his wife drove with four other women to visit (New Year’s Eve); also visited him at Fort Dix The Hallbergs formed lasting friendships during the War with those people � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hallberg, James (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hallberg, James Description An account of the resource Jim Hallberg of Muskegon, Michigan, was drafted into the army in October of 1941 and assigned to the 34th Division as an infantryman. He was part of the group sent directly into the harbor at Algiers to seize the port in November, 1943, and was captured by the French, who then changed sides and joined the Allies. He went on to fight at Kasserine Pass, where he was wounded. Because of his injury, he was switched to the division headquarters and stayed with them through Salerno, Cassino, Anzio and northern Italy. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-10-06 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HallbergJ Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d422f47adbff96e9d26836b2edbaab0d.m4v 49199bf44aeedf25f94f49890a8e35d9 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5722eebeb4b489a985137401de40041d.pdf 1cd63a0554989b24acb291c7400167fb PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Theodore Grevers Cold War Total Time: 19:23 Pre-Enlistment and Service (00:09)            Born in Chicago, IL in 1929. He was raised in The Netherlands before World War II, and his family was on the last ship out before Hitler invaded. (01:20) They moved to the United States, and a farm near Battle Creek. (02:08) He served in the Merchant Marine on an oil tanker between World War II and the Korean War. (02:40) The ship was sent to Colombia. (03:10) They had many different jobs on the ship. His main job was to either be in the engine room or be on watch. (04:30) They were warned not to get off of the ship in Colombia, as the conditions were very dangerous. (05:00) He returned to Michigan after his service, and opened a detective agency. He worked as a private investigator for his life. (08:30) The ship’s home port was Philadelphia, PA, where they dropped off the crude oil. (12:35) As a private investigator, he worked in Laos, Cambodia, and Thailand to try to get the POWs out of camps in Vietnam. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grevers, Theodore (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grevers, Theodore Description An account of the resource Theodore Grevers served in the Merchant Marine between World War II and the Korean War. Theodore grew up in the Netherlands, and moved to the United States right before Hitler invaded. He worked on an oil tanker in the Merchant Marines, which made runs between Colombia and Philadelphia. After his service, he founded a detective agency, which assisted in attempts at freeing US POWs during the Vietnam War. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Redford, Dakota (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Merchant marine--United States Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-05-30 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context GreversT Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives