45 24 1541 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/948877c8bd3a1d4881c6064da76d5dec.mp4 df5b1e07636e5a7890057fc4b413fa9d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1a61e3f2bc57756564f12aca21223ef2.pdf 3397f8172cb9aa37f9462b64e46d9c1d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Adolph Kalafut (01:04:23) (00:20) Background Information • Adolph was born in Chicago, IL on September 3, 1924 • His father was a immigrant from Poland who owned a bar that operated during the prohibition • His father also spent four years in the US Army • His parents wanted to have a good education and they paid for him to go to a military academy, which he really enjoyed • Adolph spent four years at the academy, which was similar to West Point • He joined the Marine Corps two months after graduating from the academy • Adolph had already been training in marching, organization, tactics, etc… • There was a gunnery at the school and their teachers were personnel from the Navy and Army • Adolph knew that he would be one step ahead of everyone else when he joined the Marine Corps (8:00) The Beginning of the War • Adolph had been at the Academy and noticed that things were getting harder • The seniors were all enlisting even before graduating • He had been interested in the Marine Corps; both of his brothers had joined the Army and neither of them liked it • Adolph enlisted in the Marine Corps on September 15, 1943 • He trained at the San Diego Marine Corps base for 10 weeks • Adolph had been well prepared and found training to be very ease, but he was not going to mention his earlier training because he did not want to put himself above everyone else • The only thing different from the academy was the type of guns that they trained with • He got in trouble for not shaving properly and had to shave his entire body as punishment (13:50) Camp Pendleton, CA • Adolph had been reassigned where he went through further training and awaited further instructions • They were training with light ammunition weapons, grenades, and maneuvers • Adolph was sent to parachute training school for five months • They ran five miles a day and went through paratrooper training • The Paratrooper program was soon dismantled and his unit became part of the newly formed the 5th Marine Division. (20:20) Hawaii �• • • • • Adolph received 30 days leave before being sent to Hawaii in 1944 He met his brother in California while on liberty Adolph then took a transport ship to Honolulu where he trained on a base before leaving for Iwo Jima He had never before heard about Iwo Jima and many men knew nothing about it They were told they had to secure an island 600 miles off the coast of Japan to help out the Air Force (28:20) Iwo Jima • Adolph worked with the 5th Marine Division and their main objective was to secure the high ground to their left • The 26th, 27th, and 28th Marines were all in the area securing other parts • The Japanese were to their right and water was behind them • The island was four miles wide, and landing was very difficult and confusing • They did not expect the Japanese to fight back • The island was obstructed with dead bodies everywhere and the smell was horrible (35:15) Landing • Adolph was in a landing craft near the beach; there was only one area where they could successfully land and the Japanese were expecting them • He then ran quickly to find a fox hole and take cover • Adolph was on the island for 6 days when the US flag was raised • He said it was a very emotional moment and a beautiful sight • Adolph lost a lot of good friends at Iwo Jima; he said that it was the most difficult time in his life (43:30) Wounded • Adolph had been on his way back to the landing area on the island when he was hit by 3 pieces of shrapnel and a received bullet wounds • Two men picked him up and helped to set him out of the way of more danger • He was then brought to the beach and put aboard a hospital ship • They operated on him and left the shrapnel because its removal would create even more damage • Adolph spent 6 days on the hospital ship and then 2 weeks in a hospital in Guam • Adolph was transferred to a hospital in Honolulu for 3 weeks, spent 10 days in a naval hospital, and then a hospital in Chicago for 9 more months • Adolph was again operated on many years later to finally remove the shrapnel (49:30) Life After the Marines • Adolph had spent so much time recovering in the veterans hospital that he eventually began working there • He went to college for 4.5 years and all expenses were paid • He then began working with mental patients at the Los Angles VA hospital for 13 years �• • Adolph was transferred to Battle Creek, MI where he became a program coordinator for the drug and alcohol unit His best experience was working in Battle Creek and he spent 15 years there �Iwo Jima Prior to February 19th, '45, D Dayan Two, it is unlikely that one in ten million Americans had ever heard of Iwo, let alone have any idea where it was! It is one of the three Volcano Islands, some 600 miles south of Japan. Iwo is but 2~ miles wide at its widest. It is about five miles long. Less than 8 square miles and with but one building above ground. Yet, it was "home" to over 22,000 Japanese soldiers and Korean slave-laborers who built the islands fortifications. All Iwo's forces lived, "below the deck," in an extensive network of rooms and connecting tunnels that provided quarters for all 22,OOO! We had "guesstimated" an enemy force of, "12,OOO!" The enemy had suffered no real damage from 90 days of pre-invasion bombing! The first wave landed shortly after 9am, Feb., 19th, 1945. In just 37 days we lost 6,824 plus another 19, 000 wounded. Was Iwo a futile battle? No! The 6,824 dead helped save the lives of 27,000+ airmen, Iwo was a Jap fighter base. The fighters attacked our bombers going to and returning from Japan. The bombers left from Saipan and Tinian, located some 600+ miles south of Iwo. Now, Iwo was a safe haven for all the crippled planes from mid-March until the war's end, Aug.15. The island "secured, the survivors began leaving Iwo, March 27th. I was one. But, I was no hero, just a grateful survivor who had landed not long after the famous flag-raising atop Suribachi on Feb. 23rd. As the troopship pulled away from Iwo, I stood on the fantail looking aft. Iwo looked like a drab high-top shoe, the high point being Mt. Suribachi. Pre-invasion bombing had never touched Suribachi's hidden weapons that wreaked havoc on the Marines, crowded on the beaches, until: "At last, a battleship at near point-blank range takes out the guns in Suribachi's caves." More than 21, 000 Japanese were killed on Iwo. A few surrendered along with the Korean slave-laborers. During the battle, official signs had been posted "We need a few of the enemy to interrogate." The general response was, "OK, But do you mind if they're dead?" "Gunny, Manilla John" Basilone joined the Corps in peacetime. He had served in the Philippines---hence the nickname, "Manilla John." On Guadalcanal in '42, and with his squad largely decimated, Basilone, with a 50 Cal. machine gun, wiped-out more than 100 of the enemy during a Bonzai attack. In the White House, FDR presented Basilone with the Medal of Honor. Then he was assigned to a civilian team for a War Bond drive. Recently mar:.ied (and to a Marine) the Medal of Honor winner could have sat out the war stateside! Basilone was sandwiched between Hollywood stars in an open convertible starting the War Bond drive. He did not last long. He went to hi~ superiors and asked/demanded, "to be returned to a combat unit." He ~oined the 5th Marine Divis10n on the island of Hawaii. Untested by batLle, the 5th was prepar~.ng for Iwo. On D Day, not long after H H~'lr, John Basilone was killed by shrapnel. On his arm was tatooed the three words that had governed his life as a Marine, "Death Before Dishonor." To ·John Basilone, for a Marine to be selling war bonds during war was unacceptable. IT was dishonorable. He had told his superiors, "I did not join the Corps to sell war bonds! I joined to defend and fight for my country. II John Basilone lives forever as an heroic role model for all Marines. Roger E. Greeley NOTE: $2 per copy. FIFTY PERCENT of the receipts will be donated to the National Museum of the Marine Corps, Quantico, VA. �AND STILL THEY CAME Dedicated to all who served on Iwo Bnd es@cially in memory of, "Manilla" John Basilone. Iwo Jima: desolate, discarded, shoe of ash and rock carved and dug in to by the yellow hand. Fortified, impregnable but barren, bleak no sign of life was in our sight, just black volcanic ash. Below their deck the mind and tool worked fast to stem the human tide. Yes. they too knew how much there was to gai.n. And still they came! 0900, long snap and Suribachi shook but deep within the guns were crouched to greet the first ashore. The beach was wide, soft and shifting, a checker board with every square assigned to weapons far removed. Their heavy guns and giant mortars tore up the crowded strand where eager youth was savaged. Their helmets, guns and parts of men as only war can maim, jarred the grime and smoke filled air. At last, a battleship, at near point-blank range, takes out the guns in Suribachi's caves. And still they came! The night was light, star shells and flares, the rocket's trail. There was no rest anywhere. The raw wind and stinging rain pounded the shadowy rock and everywhere the agony of death. Far too many die and do not live to see us set the Rising Sun. And still they came! The tanks with tongues of flame grumble up a slope. A Corpsman kneels to bind a wound and becomes himself a casualty. The, "Meat Grinder," exacts an awesome, bloody, toll, a dead Marine for near every yard and wounded for each foot. But the enemy is losing now, his fighting's almost done. Our casualties are mounting but the battle's nearly wont The sky was blue and cloudless. The wind was soft and warm. Nearby, "Old Glory," standing guard was waving her, "Good-bye." I looked upon the crosses so white, so quiet here and thought of all the homes and hearts that never would be full for what was buried here. But now the road is shorter. True, not free of rocks, just about the same. Besides, look up ahead of you fairly singing in the wind, "Old Glory" seems to speak and say ..•..•........... nyou bet, and still they came!W * * *we did our time in Hell. Sixty years have passed * since The Marines on Iwo Jima served their country well. "Where uncommon valor was a common virtue, "Adm.Nimitz said After viewing all the crosses that marked the 1000s dead. Our tradition is a long one. It's marched on many feet. But, no Marine has ever heard a bugler blow, -Retreat!" The Corps has many heroes; they will not stand alone As others learn the legacies of men like Basilone. It wasn't for the money or the medals heroes wear It was discipline and duty that kept men fighting there. In 37 days, we lost siz thousana eight-hundred, twenty-four But 27,000 airmen lived; was this not worth fighting for? Grateful, for this haven and when learning of our losses The flyboys thanked us warmly and saluted all the crosses. But, what we honor most from Iwo's battle-cry Is that men kept going forward knowing they might die. To our Esprit de Corps, we must never, ever say, "Good-bye II For everything worth doing embraces----------Semper Fi!tI ff1J01 ::. f..et:,L '­ USHCR, 414 674, 1942-1946 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KalafutA Title A name given to the resource Kalafut, Adolph (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kalafut, Adolph Description An account of the resource Adolph Kalafut was born in Chicago, Illinois on September 3, 1924. His father had been a Polish immigrant that owned and operated a bar during Prohibition. His parents wanted him to have an excellent education and paid for him to go to school at a military academy that was similar to West Point. Adolph enlisted in the Marines on September 15, 1943. Training was very easy for him and he was well prepared. Adolph was sent to Iwo Jima after training and it was a very difficult experience for him. He was wounded while in Iwo Jima and it took him about a year to recover. Adolph later worked in a VA hospital in Los Angeles and in Battle Creek, Michigan. Accounts of Iwo Jima from a Marine are appended to interview outline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-08-05 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b50e89fbad365f420780ae1171a1f76e.mp4 4c19a8aeda905f3a5272f3a8da7eb676 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/27348c0d596f127975c2696c05d274dd.pdf 6ed0f7d88d24c972683dfac4892a8f50 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project World War II Alfred Justice Interview Total Time: 59:39 Background  (00:14) Born in September 1920 in Raven, Virginia  Stayed here until he entered the service  (00:34) Family worked in the coal fields  (00:54) Had one brother and three sisters  (1:14) Mr. Justice’s father had a job on and off during the Depression era o Worked as an electrician  (2:00) Didn’t graduate from high school right away  (2:21) Joined the army in September of 1939 o Joined because as a young man, it was hard to find places to go, things to do, no chance of employment o Went to the service for survival Training  (3:11) Ft. Knox, Kentucky, for basic training  (3:30) The guy who trained them was very tough o Always told the recruits that the tough men died during the war o Was a courier o Drill instructor wouldn’t allow any of the recruits to have beer with him o “When you get to be soldiers, we’ll drink plenty of beer, but not until then.”  (4:30) At first, Mr. Justice loved his new life in the army  (5:17) They did drill training, calisthenics o No forced marches  (5:37) Basic training lasted two months  (5:49) Assigned to a gun squad – stayed at Ft. Knox  (7:26) Stayed at Ft. Knox after Pearl Harbor for a time  (7:31) Eventually went to Ft. Custer (before Pearl Harbor) at Battle Creek, Michigan o First troops to enter Ft. Custer to stay since WWI  (7:58) Ft. Custer was full of tents when they got there  (8:40) In the summer of 1941, he switched to tank destroyers  (9:15) When they got here, they were creating a cadre for the battalion �               (9:30) Remembers the first job he had was being picked for a school assignment to teach tactics for tankers at Ft. Hood, Texas (10:19) Stayed in Texas for a couple of years, and then went to Ft. Jackson, South Carolina (10:41) Mr. Justice was in Battle Creek when Pearl Harbor happened o Recalls drinking beer with his friends around this time (11:52) After Pearl Harbor, Mr. Justice said he took his job in the army more seriously (12:11) In Texas, Mr. Justice trained other men to fight in tanks o At this point, he didn’t have any background experience in this area (12:32) Remembers going to the classroom one morning o Three Marine officers in his class that weren’t supposed to be there o They clashed instantly, but somehow they learned to live with each other o They ended up being friends – said if he ever wanted to join the Marines, they would do anything they possibly could to welcome him with a rank (15:05) At the time, Mr. Justice recalls that the big weapon was a 76 mm gun o Eventually went to 90 mm and a 3 inch o After the war, they still had 3 inch o These guns were mounted on turrets o One could fire these from inside the tank (16:45) At Ft. Hood, they went out on a lot of maneuvers o Went to firing range o “Out in the boondocks constantly” (17:29) Stayed in Ft. Hood until they were deployed (17:49) In South Carolina and Texas, he worked in a training unit (18:07) Mr. Justice was a staff sergeant (20:00) They were out in the country o At this point, they just opened up the reservation and most things were still being built (20:29) In South Carolina, Mr. Justice said it was a nice facility, much different than in Texas (21:20) Mr. Justice said he never believed that he wanted to be sent “into action,” but once it got to that point, he expected and accepted it (21:42) Was surprised that it took so long to be sent overseas Overseas  (22:00) Sailed out from New York City  (23:15) Was told that he would ride the Queen Mary �                  (24:05) Said that the only good thing about the ship was that an orchestra was aboard (24:33) The ship sailed alone because of its speed o But they still used the zig zag maneuver (25:00) Going over, the weather was great, but not so much going back (25:12) Took almost a week going over the Atlantic, but about three weeks going back home on a Liberty Ship (25:39) Landed near Glasgow, Scotland (25:50) Moved to England for awhile (27:24) Landed in France o They went over on a Landing Ship Tank (LST) o Fired up tanks, went ashore o Mr. Justice was a platoon sergeant o In charge of four tanks o Drove from France to Belgium in tanks (28:45) No fighting while he drove over, doesn’t even remember hearing a rifle shot (29:38) At this point, the weather started getting cold and snowy (30:10) Saw civilians; intermingled (30:34) Mr. Justice says that he was surprised that the German population accepted them; sincerity (31:07) Mr. Justice said the first time they went into action was probably an outside incident (31:58) Mr. Justice said he always thought the Germans weren’t good marksmen o Thought the reason for this was that Hitler didn’t have the source or money to buy practice ammunition o Germans missed when they fired at them (32:59) Mr. Justice said they fired at mostly single personnel (33:09) When they encountered tanks, guns were not effective o They knew not to engage in fighting when German tanks were involved (35:06) After the Battle of the Bulge, Mr. Justice said the Germans were confused; “all but done” o Believes at this point the enemy didn’t have a will to fight o This is when they were fighting in open country (35:49) Remembers seeing civilians as they moved across Germany (36:22) Mr. Justice noticed that German women took up with American men o A German doctor he talked to said it would be the same if German men came to America if it was under the same position o The doctor commented on how strong the American troops were �             (38:23) Mr. Justice said there were some American troops who weren’t behaving very well o One guy went into a house and raped a teenager o This man was court martialed and sent back to Kansas (Ft. Leavenworth) o Not aware of stealing and looting, though (39:18) Slept in houses if they were available (40:20) Mr. Justice was around Darmstadt when the war ended (41:26) At this time, Mr. Justice was in charge of around 60 men o Was an officer at this point (42:00) Shortly before the Battle of the Bulge, Mr. Justice was promoted o The man he replaced was hurt (42:34) After being promoted, he continued the same job he had with the same men (43:05) Saw concentration camps in Germany o One day they happened to come upon it o The gates were opened o Mr. Justice’s unit helped clean up o Remembers seeing hundreds of bodies stacked on top of farm equipment being hauled away o Saw displaced persons; they were scared and hungry  Wandered around  Talked to them as best as they could with language barrier  Most of the ones he contacted were Polish  They wanted to go back to Poland (46:17) Remembers seeing villages o One time he was assigned to a hospital o Remembers having to double check when somebody was dead o These were soldiers in the hospitals o Gangrene, etc. o Here, Mr. Justice said he learned what misery meant o None of these guys had aspirin or anything (48:56) Mr. Justice had more than enough points to get out of the service (49:23) After Japan surrendered, Mr. Justice was still in Germany (49:35) Mr. Justice doesn’t remember others leaving in his unit before him o Quite a few left with him (50:12) Before the Germans surrendered, he was able to go to the French Riviera o He had a stomach disorder, so he was sent here to convalesce o Was here for about a month (51:02) Earlier, he stayed in London �o A month in England before Germany Going Home  (51:48) Sailed out of England on the Liberty Ship o Sea Hawk o Took at least three weeks to get back to the US o The seas were very rough – everyone got sick o They thought they were going to sink  (53:28) Went to Camp Patrick Henry, Virginia o Mr. Justice was put in charge of the troop train coming back to Indianapolis  (53:50) Discharged at Camp Atterbury, Indiana  (54:08) Went home to Niles, Michigan o Met wife at Camp Custer o Was married in 1943  (55:11) Tried a job at Tyler Refrigeration, and eventually worked at a railroad company, which he stayed at the rest of his working life o Was a trainman o Also worked as a switchman o Fireman on an engine  (58:31) Mr. Justice believes he was very different when he came back from the army � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JusticeA1139V Title A name given to the resource Justice, Alfred (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Justice, Alfred Description An account of the resource Alfred Justice was born in southwestern Virginia. He joined the army in September of 1939 mostly because it was impossible to find a job as a young man during that time. Mr. Justice received his training at Ft. Knox, and was stationed at Fort Custer at the time of Pearl Harbor. For the first three years of the war, he trained other soldiers in tanks and tank destroyers at Fort Custer, Fort Hood and Fort Jackson before finally sailing to England with a tank battalion. Landing in France late in 1944, his battalion participated in the Battle of the Bulge, where he received a battlefield commission, and went on into Germany, where he saw concentration camps and displaced persons, and remained for several months after the end of the war. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-07-07 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c9f14aa35a393b1b13ff1e8eb5fe90f7.mp4 86871b3c8ee560e592e8456369fa8d77 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1cf635fc7828bbbf51d42b0c7b1af8ad.pdf 0370989bd2f17e0f850f9b5b11353493 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Vietnam Name of Interviewee: Ron Joyner Length of Interview: 00:31:02 Background:  Born May 1948.  Served in the US Army in Vietnam and the Cold War  He was born in Macon, Georgia.  His father was a farmer and his mother was a housewife. He has one sister.  Before he entered the service, he went to the University of Georgia. He had a business degree, and was hoping to do something with accounting.  He finished school and was drafted in the 1st lottery. His number was 35.  He was all ready to attend graduate school, when he got his draft notice. He had gone through all the physical tests, and with a number like 35, he knew that he was going to be headed to war.  He went into the Army and served his time. When he got back he picked up where he had left off, and went on from there.  He was the first in his immediate family who served in the military. Basic Training (2:30)           He left early in the year of 1970 to go to Fort Jackson, South Caroline, where he took basic training. He thought basic training was an interesting event. It was there you got used to the military, and got used to being away from your family for the first time. It was an interesting time. He found it was more difficult mentally, rather than physically, getting used to the regiment, the discipline, and getting through it. It was also difficult getting used to the South Carolina weather. During that time, there was a lot of controversy about the war in Vietnam, and a lot of people were moving to Canada. (4:00) The biggest deal was getting used to it all. Suddenly your whole world was upside down. He actually found the experience to be quite fun. He met a lot of great guys when he was there. He knew of his neighbor leaving for Canada, instead of getting drafted. He believes it was a personal choice, even if he did not agree with it. Even today, you can see the divide in the culture world about the choices that people made back then. He did not want to leave, because he knew that he would want to come back. He also did not want to have to tell his kids and grandkids that he did that. He was married when he was drafted. Flight School (5:45) �       After he got done with basic training, he went to flight school for helicopter training. He went to Fort Rucker, Alabama for his additional training. Because he was young, and in good shape, he did not find any of the physical training to be difficult at all. The biggest difficulty was adapting to the disciplined life there. Even today he still folds his socks a certain way, and puts them in certain places in his dresser. One thing he really learned was to live with people from all over the country, who lead very different live than he did. It was quite a learning experience adapting to others. (7:20) It would all add to the comradely that he had with the people there. Active Duty (8:02)          He served both in Vietnam and in Germany, during the Cold War. While he served in the Army, in both places, he learned a lot about teamwork. He learned that in order to be successful you had to have confidence that the people were going to do their job, so you could do yours. In Germany, it was a period of time, when you did not always have the best equipment as it was going to Vietnam and Southeast Asia. Looking back in history, he thinks that the people working in those areas were incredible. He remembers doing patrols in Germany, and he did not think much about it. Years later, however, he looks back on how his and others duties brought about the Cold War. When he served in Vietnam, he and everyone around him were worried about the Domino Theory. They worried that if one country fell to communism, others would follow. (10:40) He thinks that is why they fought so hard in Vietnam to keep from losing. At the end of the day, they lost to Vietnam, but did not see the Domino they feared so much. The same happened while he served in Germany. He believes that the strength that America had in keeping communism from spreading would be the ultimate key in achieving victory. Looking back now, he says that we actually won. Germany (12:05)       Germany was great. It was a very different country than the USA. He lived with a German family while he was there and it was a great experience. They welcomed them with open arms and became part of that family. They went to all the festivals with them. When he was there, he remembers using a very outdated helicopter. They were in the process of getting rid of those and eventually brought in a new model. However, this newer model had some problems, and they were all grounded for several months. An army of engineers was sent in to try to fix the problem. There was not a lot to do at the time, but it was great to be in Germany. �        His wife was there with him, and they traveled the countryside. The neighbors and family they lived with then, they still keep in contact today. His daughter was born in Germany as well. A year ago, his wife took her back to Germany to see where she was born and to see the family. It was a rewarding time. And there was good food too and good beer. (14:25) When his daughter was born, the army had missed the due date considerably. One morning, his wife started having labor pains. He was told not to go to the hospital until the labor pains were more consistent. And they were a long way from the hospital. She called her husband at work, but he told her to wait. His friend’s wife went over to the house and stayed with her until he got home. That night she kicked him out of bed and demanded to go to the hospital. They drove to the hospital in the snow. They tried to get over a hill, but a train was coming, so they slid all the way back down the hill and waited for the train and started again. When he got her to the hospital, they said it was going to be a while, and sent him home. He got back to the house and fell asleep at the kitchen table. He woke up to the smell of boiling, burning coffee. He went back to the hospital, where he found his wife walking around, trying to get the baby to drop. He thinks they must have walked 25 miles that day. Finally the doctors just took the baby by C-section. (18:25) Vietnam (19:26)             Vietnam did not have many big battles. There were some firefights. Instead it was more like an air raid. He brought people in to fight and when they needed more, he brought more in. He always equated it to a good bus driver. It is difficult sometimes, knowing you have lost friends. The friendships he formed still were alive today. They kept in touch mainly by letters. One time he got a phone call that was nice. Most of the time, people just tried to make it through the day. They were all in a bad situation, and they grew close. A camaraderie formed, and they are still close today. A couple of them recently passed away due to cancer. Years later, everyone remembers the funny things that happened. People do not ever try to remember the bad, because it was always there. You never forget the bad, but what really lights you up is the funny things, and each other. When Vietnam ended, he was traveling in Georgia. He went into a hotel and heard it on the television. He knew that morning that it was basically over, and when they showed the chaos of the evacuation of the embassy, he knew it was over, regardless of how you felt about it. (24:25) The end of the Cold War was a much more joyous time, as it was a clear victory. He remembers turning on the T.V. and watching the Germans take hammers to the wall. Everyone was drinking and having a good time. �Post Duty (26:00)  He had been out of the army 2 years after Vietnam ended.  Everyone knew it was ending, just not the specifics.  He likes to look at the Ford Museum that is here in town, because Ford was president at the time. There are a lot of really neat things that he sees there. He believes that President did a wonderful job at the time.  His family was overjoyed to see him come home, though society as a whole was not particularly welcoming.  There was always coolness to some people.  He was glad to be home and be a civilian at the time.  He kept in touch with letters, phone calls, and some visiting. Mostly phone calls though.  He has not been involved with any veteran’s organizations after he got done. He got out and picked up where he left off and made a career after that.  The Army and the experiences that went with it had a great impact on him. He learned to get along with other people; he learned that can-do attitude can get you a long ways. Everything he learned there served him well in his future. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JoynerR1066V Title A name given to the resource Joyner, Ron (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Joyner, Ron Description An account of the resource Ron Joyner was drafted into the Army in 1970 as part of the first group to be drafted through the lottery system. He volunteered for helicopter pilot training, which he took at Fort Rucker, Alabama, and was then sent to Germany. From there, he was sent to Vietnam toward the end of American involvement there. Most of his missions in Vietnam involved ferrying troops into the field and bringing them back again, and he does not recall being involved in any large battles. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Blakeney, Julia (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-06-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5155184a52b32781744b04ae2c1c852e.mp4 2ebafc5f19a213bf6c0e7c739852f272 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3ef1fa10ad02f546f3a47302f3c0a9d1.pdf d57b9067e47f6336e118379f5ad40cdb PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam Era James Jouppi 1:35:52 Introduction (00:42)               Jim was born in Long Island, New York on December 10, 1948. Before he went to school, his father was in the Marine Corps and the family moved to Newport, Virginia when his father was called into service during Korea. They also lived in North Carolina, New York and eventually made contact with the automobile industry in Detroit. The family moved back to New York, where Jim went to high school at Concordia Prep in Bronxville. (02:11) It was an all boy’s prep school, and Jim graduated in 1966. After high school, Jim went to Cornell. He did not know what he wanted to do, but he was good at math and science. He also applied to MIT, but was not admitted. He flunked out his freshman year. Because he did not want to be drafted, his father sent him to Transylvania College in Lexington, Kentucky. Jim stayed there for one year, before going back to Cornell. He graduated with a degree in Civil Engineering To learn more about the Vietnam War, Jim joined the Vietnamese Mobilization Committee. (05:11) The group did not protest, but instead researched and studied the war and shared the truth. Jim was opposed to the Vietnam War because it was not about the people, he felt that it was really a war against communism and the Russians, and was just fought in Vietnam. Jim graduated from Cornell in 1971. Two weeks after he graduated, he received his draft notice and had to report to the draft board and was given his physical. (07:09) During the process, he was denied conscientious objector status because he was a Lutheran and that was not a passive religion. Jim had a medical problem with his hand that he wanted to have checked out, so instead of going to basic training, he was given a voucher to stay at a hotel next door to the draft board office. He was also given food vouchers and train fare for him to go and get his medical record. The doctor checked out his hand and said that he could give him a six month deferment and then be drafted or be drafted now. He chose to take the deferment. (09:32) Peace Corps (10:17)  Jim was inducted into the Peace Corps in August. He drove a taxi for five weeks before he joined. �          Prior to his departure, he took a bus to Detroit to visit his parents and then went to San Jose, California and left for Thailand. Jim was interested in joining the Peace Corps because he wanted to do something with his life. He tried out with the Environmental Protection Agency, but failed due to his poor eyesight. When he joined the Peace Corps, he was 1A, and could have been drafted at any time. At the time, the Peace Corps had five areas they worked in, Asia, South America and Africa were some of them. He did not have a preference, but was sent to Thailand. (12:55) Jim’s group was the first to be trained entirely in country. Before leaving, they went to San Francisco and rode the trolley cars. When they left, they had an unexpected overnight stay in Hong Kong. Everything was very nice and they stayed at a luxury hotel which was top notch. (14:26) They arrived in Thailand in the middle of the night, now one day late, and the Peace Corps staff was there at the airport to greet them and put lei’s around their necks and welcomed them. Jim was then taken to a policemen’s resort to undergo his training. The group consisted of eleven engineers and construction volunteers and one agriculturist. The agricultural volunteer could not figure out why he was there with the civil engineers. Jim later found out that the man was approached by the CIA and was asked to join but he had already joined the Peace Corps. The man was sent home and joined a different group. (16:45) Thailand (17:20)            The training that the group was given included survey work, drafting, blueprint design, and building spill ways for drainage water. Since they did not have any earth moving equipment, everything had to be dug by hand. One cubic meter, per villager, per day. They also had intensive language courses, which lasted six hours a day, with only an hour or two devoted to the technical aspects. (19:41) Jim was also taken around to some of the temples and received other cultural training. The training program lasted eight weeks, and once he completed it, they were sent to a northern province for two weeks to conduct a practice project. (21:32) During the project, the Thai military came and guarded the interpreters for reasons that Jim never figured out. Twenty to thirty soldiers came everyday. After that, they were sent to Bangkok and were sworn in, and then they were given their actual assignments. Jim was stationed on the Mekong River in north east Thailand (23:43) The Peace Corps informed them that they were employed by the Thai Government, but the government did not know why they were there. One volunteer was developing an urban homestead, and improved the house and built a water system creating running water. (26:26) To keep track of the workers, paperwork was often filed, and they were given per diem for being there even though no real work was being done. (28:50) �                   Most of the forms were not filled out truthfully, because the men felt it was a joke and just something they had to do, which caused some tension between Jim and the others. (30:07) Jim was planning several projects, but when they were about to begin, the Thai Foreign Service officer said they didn’t want them to be done, so four of the six projects that year were cancelled. For the other projects that year, Jim gave one to his friend who wanted to get away from his wife for a couple of months and the sixth was the least funded of all of them but it turned out pretty well. (32:52) Jim had a good relationship with the locals, including a village head man, whom he stayed with. The head man's wife cooked food for them, and Jim would bring her food from the market because he did not care for the local cuisine of locusts, frogs and red ants that they would often eat. Jim could speak central Thai, which was different than the dialect of where he was staying. By smoking marijuana, Jim learned that the awkwardness of the situation went away while he was high, so he smoked it with his G.I. buddies. (34:54) He would also smoke from a communal bong, which helped break down the cultural barriers that they had. The work he was doing was in 1973. Other work that was done, involved paid workers from another adjoining province. Jim always wondered how they could afford that, and he later learned the CIA was working out of the province that the workers had come from. (38:06) The American presence was high within the towns and city centers. The G.I.s had no restrictions, except a midnight curfew. Where Jim was, they had 52 G.I. bars. The girls that went into the bars had to have a valid VD card (Venereal Disease) to make sure they did not have any diseases that could be transferred to the servicemen. To get into a bar without having their cards checked, the women would often ask Jim to accompany them into the bar, because girls with an American did not have to show their cards. (40:18) VD was a fairly big problem, and Jim contracted it twice himself. The servicemen could live off of base in a pretty nice place for only fifty dollars a month. And sometimes a couple of men would share it. The houses had electricity, and piped water, but would not have a refrigerator or a flush toilet. The Air Force had a Civic Action zone ten miles around the base. They had particular interest there and watched for communists. (42:34) Roads were built and maintained there and bridges were also built. Jim also sponsored an English speaking school, but he was not allowed to teach so he got G.I.’s to teach the classes. The Air Force also hosted the MEDCAP (Medical Civil Action Program) which provided medical and dental attention to the locals. (44:50) Jim lived outside of town a couple of miles and had a big two story home. He also had a motorcycle, which he drove into town. His house did not have electricity or running water. �     The adjustment to the lower standard of living was easy for Jim. He was considered to be wealthy in Thailand. (46:47) The standard tour for the Peace Corps is two years, with many people serving in Thailand extending to stay longer. Thailand had the highest extension rate out of any other country at that time. (48:29) The rate of extension was higher for men than women. Jim believes this is because of the cultural perceptions that Thai men held for women. (50:02) Jim always believed that women of good standing would not be socially interested in the Americans there, but he was approached by two at a bar one day and they said they wanted to get to know him, which was unusual. The two wanted to teach him Thai, and he found himself attached to one of them and he extended for a third year. She was a government worker who had a law degree from one of the best universities in Thailand. (52:50) Back in the States (54:43)              Jim left Thailand in 1973 after being there for three years. His goal was to get a job and bring his Thai girlfriend to the states. He found employment as a civil engineer trainee in Denver, Colorado. Jim wrote to her everyday and asked her to come and live with him. However, she was never able to come. Jim found out that the Peace Corps director had very close ties to the CIA, and was there to keep the Peace Corps from interfering in the war effort in Vietnam. (56:32) This country director terminated early and left almost exactly when President Nixon resigned. While still in country, Jim feels that the American people had no idea what they were doing nor did they care. (58:47) Once, Jim asked the headman if the main road going into town was safe from the communists. (1:00:23) The headman would never leave his water buffalo out at night because he was afraid of the communists stealing it. The headman also believed there were ghosts that lived along the road because there was no village around. While driving back to the village early one morning he spotted a taunt wire that went across the entire road that was pinned to the ground on both sides, below it were strange coiled wires. (1:04:45) Jim went back to the headman and alerted him that it was there. He thought that it was a communist land mine, and he wanted to send other villagers to guard it while he went to the Air Base for help. The headman called a town meeting and told Jim that it was simply a rabbit trap and not a mine. (1:07:12) Jim was very embarrassed and went back up the road to where he had seen the rabbit trap and saw a boy from the village taking it down. Today, Jim believes that the communist insurgency was trumped up by the CIA for various reasons. (1:09:59) When he was back in the states, he did not have a marketable skill and he did not want to pursue civil engineering. � He later joined the Army when he was thirty four years old; to get G.I. Bill benefits and then went to the Post Office. (1:13:08) Joining the Army (1:13:34)                Jim did not want to join, but he had a friend that was in and said that if he could get a medical job it would be like any other job, but with good benefits. The recruiter only had a quota of two people per month. Jim conducted his basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. When he did his field training his roommate said that it was thirty below. He became a medic and had his advanced training at Fort Sam Houston in Texas. (1:15:33) Jim’s first permanent duty station was in Germany for a year and a half and then he was stationed in Alabama for the last year of his service. He served a total of three years. He enlisted in the Army in November 1983. In basic training, the other recruits viewed him as the old man. Some of the recruits were from the streets and had no discipline at all. Those recruits were weeded out quickly. The other men he was with were very supportive. (1:17:02) While in Germany, he was stationed in Kitzingen near Heidelberg. Jim earned the field medical badge while stationed in Germany. In basic training, the recruits were told that war had broken out and that they were going to be sent there, but it was a trick the Drill Sergeants played on the recruits. (1:19:37) The Americans could go into the Soviet territory and the Soviets could go into American territory, and there was no real fear from a war with the Soviet Union. One of the NCO’s at Fort Leonard Wood was a Vietnam veteran, Jim also served with a man in Germany that served two tours in Vietnam. (1:21:36) When Jim was in Germany, the locals did not really care for the Americans. The women would not throw themselves at Americans like what he encountered in Thailand. (1:23:14) He tried to learn the language, but he could not speak it around the airbase because everyone spoke English. Civilian Life (1:24:40)        After Jim was discharged from the service, he worked for [CFAT], which was a company that prepared missionaries going out into the field. (1:25:34) He stayed there for a year, then moved to Grand Rapids and went to the Jordan Energy Institute, which did not turn out well because there was not much market at the time. In 1988, Jim went to England and studied Tropical Public Health Civil Engineering and obtained his Master’s Degree. After that, he applied to the Peace Corps again once he returned to the states but was turned down because he was too political. Then he got a job at the Post Office. (1:27:06) Jim has been back to Thailand several times. Jim was married in 2002 to his pen pal that he had been in contact with. �      Thailand is quite different now than it was then. They have electricity, telephones and running water. He went back in 1985, when plane tickets were not so expensive. He visited again in 1997, 2007 and 2012. On his last visit, he met up with the headman that he worked with during the Peace Corps, and he still remembered him. (1:29:48) When he was there, he saw that the government has issued large water urns that collect rain water, which gives the people a clean source of fresh water to use and drink. During all the times he was there, he has never had any health problems. Except when he first arrived, he got Montezuma’s Revenge, but has never gotten it since. (1:31:23) Jim feels that his time in the Peace Corps was important, and also feels that glorifying war should not be done. Instead, he feels that people should be sent to foreign countries to help the people, not kill them. He does not feel patriotism about watching Memorial Day services, and does not feel like the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are protecting him. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JouppiJ1486V Title A name given to the resource Jouppi, James (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jouppi, James Description An account of the resource James was born on Long Island, December 10, 1948. His father was in the Marine Corps and served in Korea. The family moved around during his childhood but they eventually settled back in New York. After graduating from high school in 1966, Jim went to Cornell University. He flunked out and tried another school to avoid the draft. He later graduated from Cornell with a degree in Civil Engineering. He joined the Peace Corps in 1971 and was stationed in Thailand. After being there for three years, he returned home and eventually joined the United States Army and served as a medic in Germany. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Peace Corps (U.S.) Vietnam Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-05-30 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4224cbaaae123c0daf0de4589a970dac.mp4 e511e85a16f5380682569c0280e07f68 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b1884403e5516763d3763f075d3d071d.pdf e69090dbb9c3803dfe417d8859e44fac PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Herm Jongsma (01:26:00) Pre Enlistment • Had to transfer to numerous schools as he was growing up (00:45) • Born in 1931 (01:45) • Father sold apples and baked goods on the street corner (02:00) • His father would also listen to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir on WGN as he got dressed in the morning (03:30) • Herm later joined the school choirs as well as the church choir (04:30) • Graduated mid-year in 1950 (05:20) • Father opened a floral shop when he was in high school (06:25) • Too young to understand what it meant when America went to the Second World War (07:33) • Didn’t truly appreciate the deaths and the impact it had on people (08:00) • During high school, Herm took a college prep course (09:15) • Decided to become a heating engineer after high school (09:30) • Had to serve an apprenticeship before you could get into the trade (11:00) • After being turned down for an apprenticeship, he decided to go to Calvin College (12:10) • Decided to be a math teacher while at Calvin (13:30) • After getting a bad grade in math, he decided to switch to a biology major (15:00) • Decided in 1952 to join the military after he heard about Korea (15:30) • Wanted to be a pilot or navigator (15:45) • Was informed by the recruiting office that Truman had stopped enlistment in the Air Cadet program (16:30) Draft and Training • Was drafted before he made a decision about which branch he wanted to serve in (17:15) • Went to Great Lakes Naval Training Center to be inducted (17:30) • Then flew to California (17:35) • Had never flown before, and thought it was really nice until they hit turbulence (17:55) • Had to make a forced emergency landing in Arizona (18:20) • Had basic training at Fort Ord (18:45) • Scheduled to go to Intelligence School (19:00) • A lot of PT and physical activity involved in basic training (19:25) • Used live ordinance towards the end to make sure people stayed down (19:30) • Never was comfortable with bayonet practice (20:00) • 8 week program, and some were shipped out after that (20:15) �• • • • Came down with chicken pox, which set him back 3 days in training, and was forced to join a new unit (20:45) Had seven days between the end of basic training and the beginning of intelligence school, but had to take a full leave before that (22:00) Went to light mechanics school at Fort Ord instead (22:30) Could be stationed anywhere in the far East (23:00) Korea • Got new orders in Tokyo to go to Korea (23:15) • Went to Pusan, Korea, and was in the combat zone (23:20) • Thought he would be running around as a driver on call instead of a mechanic (24:40) • Was bombed on the first day he was there, however (25:50) • Had to quickly learn the difference between incoming and outgoing shells (26:30) • Also had to deal with shrapnel as he drove around the camp (28:30) • Only let his brother know that he was in a combat zone (29:00) • Volunteered to go work with the Greek Expeditionary Force, which was attached with the 15th Regiment, 3rd Division (29:45) • Greek force was a battalion large (30:00) • Only time he heard English was with the few other Americans who were there (30:45) • Had ripe olives, olive oil, cognac and ouzo delivered to the officers tent from Greece (31:30) • When guests came, they went to Officers Mess tent and served water glasses of cognac (33:00) • Greeks were very organized, professional, very military (34:45) • Very skilled in hand to hand combat (36:00) • Herm’s job was to maintain contact with the Koreans and companies of the 15th Regiment (36:30) • Was stationed right behind Outpost Harry the whole time (38:00) • Outpost Harry had direct access to Seoul, so China wanted to have it (39:50) • Had several battles around the Outpost, sometimes at night, and affected him emotionally (41:20) • Many of the attacks were reminiscent of trench fighting in World War One (41:50) • Often outmanned 20-30 to 1 (43:15) • Each wave of men got closer and closer past the Concertina wire (43:40) • The Chinese reported that 4200 men died in 9 days (44:00) • 100 men defended the outpost for a day, then were refreshed the next day (44:45) • Only 2 men were listed MIA, and one captured from the Greek army during the whole war (45:20) • When the artillery let up, you knew the attack was coming from the soldiers (46:15) • Had to use hand to hand combat frequently (47:00) • Often wondered why he walked out of the war with no wounds (47:15) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Thinks that while the darkest times were occurring, he recalled a song from the Mormon Tabernacle Choir that helped him not be alone (48:00) Nobody ever asked him about combat or Korea when he got home (49:00) Never told his parents that he was in combat, made up stories in letters (49:20) Told his youngest brother years later that he was in combat (51:30) Believes the real heroes of the war were the ones who paid the ultimate price (52:20) Feels that the United States did not provide them with proper equipment for the war (53:20) Received M1’s, which is very accurate, but not good in close contact or at night (54:30) Chinese used the “burp” gun, which wasn’t accurate, which doesn’t matter at night (55:00) Herm later acquired a grease gun, which was similar to the burp gun (56:00) Carried it in his jeep at all times (56:20) Towards the end of the war, the Chinese used a lot of heavy artillery (56:45) Russians also gave the North Koreans T-34 tanks (57:00) United States ruled the air for the whole war (58:00) Took very heavy hit, and was called off the line with the Greeks (01:00:00) Loaded in to trucks and quickly moved away because the Chinese broke through a line (01:01:00) All the artillery was no more than 6-8 feet in front of the other (01:01:30) All of it was going at once (01:01:40) Got to their destination and Herm waited, but moved off to the side just in case artillery hit up there (01:02:45) Koreans had turned and ran where the Chinese broke through, but were able to plug the line back up (01:03:30) Ceasefire • A few weeks later, the Armistice was signed (01:03:40) • Stayed in his foxhole while the artillery was going over head, until the very second they agreed to a cease-fire (01:04:40) • Spent 5 or 6 months on the front lines (01:04:50) • Greeks imported more units after the ceasefire (01:05:00) • Got a lot of downtime after the ceasefire, went to Japan for a little bit (01:05:30) • Met a lot of Greeks, celebrated Easter with them and played soccer with them (01:06:05) • The whole Greek army attends church when they were able to have it (01:07:00) • Met some Koreans and traveled throughout South Korea during this time, as well (01:07:50) After the War • Was invited back in 2006 by the Korean government to visit as guests of the Korean government for 6 days (01:08:15) • Toured a museum, and saw a diorama of the wave attack he experienced (01:09:00) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Older Korean people were very thankful to him for his service (01:10:20) Korean children are taught English (01:11:05) Was discharged 30 days early at Great Lakes (01:11:50) Returned to school a totally different man (01:12:15) Began teaching school in southern California in a suburb of Los Angeles (01:12:40) Each summer break he would take classes at various California colleges for graduate school training (01:12:50) After 5 years, he had 2 sons and wanted to get his masters degree (01:13:20) His salary was 3500 dollars, which also included coaching (01:13:40) Signed up for a National Science Foundation grant and was accepted for that (01:14:00) Went to the University of Michigan for his masters (01:14:30) Did work with electron micography there (01:14:50) Went back to teach high school in Joliet, IL for 29 years (01:15:20) Taught in the classroom, chairperson of the math/science department and administrator of the building (01:16:00) Had 5 deans and 8 counselors under him, but did not like that part of his job (01:16:50) Loved teaching, not administrating (01:17:00) Went back to the classroom (01:17:15) Taught gifted kids (01:17:30) Was asked by the administration at the district level for his last 11 years (01:17:50) Also taught at anatomy and physiology at a Lewis University and Joliet Jr. College (01:18:20) Retired to MI because of his brother and wife (01:19:00) Works with the Tell America group to tell high school students about the Korean War (01:19:30) Wants kids to understand why America went to Korea in the first place (01:20:00) Gives the kids a history of why Korea happened, starting in 1910, when the Japanese invade Korea (01:21:00) Russia didn’t want to let the North Koreans have elections, which divided the country (01:23:50) Has one member of Tell America that was a prisoner of war, which is very interesting to hear his stories (01:25:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JongsmaH Title A name given to the resource Jongsma, Herm (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jongsma, Herm Description An account of the resource Herm Jongsma was born in 1931, during the Depression. As a result he moved around a lot as a child, but ended up going to Calvin College for a brief time. He was drafted to the Army in 1952 to serve in the Korean War. He was a light mechanic, but served as a liaison with the Greek battalion on the front line north of Seoul. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-09-18 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c6a3c0cd2d2c0c65a257f2fa093c697e.mp4 6d7cd64d98dff37d046821799b63ff86 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7124a05e8f74261d489ef2eaada5c6d7.pdf dbbac86dd7df1543ed5516eabf97ff76 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Vietnam War William Jones Interview Length: (01:30:17:00) Pre-Enlistment / Training (00:00:09:00)  Born on June 26, 1947 in Kalamazoo, Michigan (00:00:09:00)  Jones’ mother’s family lived in New Hampshire while his father’s family lived in Ionia, Michigan; he split his time between living in Michigan and living in New Hampshire, with the bulk of his younger years spent living in New Hampshire (00:00:17:00) o Jones attended Catholic parochial school and then Manchester West High School in Manchester, NH; he originally took the entrance exam for another high school but the majority of his friends were attending West High School, so he decided to attend there instead (00:00:35:00)  Jones’ father worked as a truck driver and his mother was an LPN (Licensed Practical Nurse) (00:01:22:00) o After school, Jones normally stayed with his grandparents until his father was able to pick him up after his father got out of work (00:01:34:00)  When he was a senior in high school, Jones considered joining the Air Force; everyone in his family had either served in World War I, World War II, or the Korean War and his father in particular had served in the Air Force (00:02:10:00) o However, in February 1966, Jones happened to be in a Marine Corps recruiting station, where he talked with a gunnery sergeant (00:02:35:00) o At the time, the Corps only offered three and four year enlistments and one of Jones’ main motivations was to serve long enough that his GI Bill would pay for his college (00:02:47:00) o Due to the draft, Jones realized he had to decide quickly because if he was drafted, the military was going to put them where they wanted (00:03:24:00) o Jones chose the Marine Corps over the Air Force because he liked the dress uniforms and the Corps had a solid history; because he had been a history buff in high school, Jones liked the history of the Corps (00:04:04:00)  The Air Force also had a good history fighting in World War II and Korea, but Jones liked the Corps’ history more (00:04:20:00)  When he joined in 1966, Jones had a ninety-day delay program, so he did not ship out until August 1966, during which he and his family watched the news and saw what was going on in Vietnam (00:04:41:00) o Jones also discussed the war in his history class with his teacher, a former Marine pilot during the Korean War (00:05:05:00) o Apart from discussing the war, Jones also talked about the anti-war protests going on around the country (00:05:27:00)  Before joining the Corps, Jones wrote a letter with the help of his girlfriend to the Manchester Union Leader, a statewide newspaper, deriding the anti-war protestors (00:05:29:00) �   Based of a film shown by the Marine recruiter, Jones explained that despite it being an unpopular war, the soldiers went where they were ordered to go (00:06:35:00)  The next day’s morning edition of the paper had the letter in it on the top of the front page and the paper wanted Jones to come in and have his picture taken and redo part of the letter (00:08:02:00)  Jones expected the letter to go into the “letters to the editor” section and when he wrote several other letters later, that was where they went (00:08:41:00) Jones went to Parris Island, South Carolina, for boot camp (00:09:28:00) o The men were picked up from the airport by buses and their recruiter had told them what to expect but it was not them same until the men experienced it for themselves (00:09:37:00) o The recruits actually arrived a day late because they missed the flight out of Newark, New Jersey (00:09:50:00) o They got onto the base at eleven o’clock at night and when they went through the main gate of the base, the men were talking amongst themselves about how they needed to be ready (00:10:09:00) o When they got on the base, a drill instructor got on the bus, explained that the men now belonged to the Marine Corps and that when he said so, the men were to get off the bus and stand on the yellow footprints outside (00:10:40:00) o The men went through the barracks and signed the paperwork, then moved through the showers and finally through processing, which included being issued clothes (00:11:25:00) o After processing, the men moved to an area, were told their drill instructors would pick them up later and told not to sleep; however, they rotated men as guards while the others slept (00:11:59:00) o At four in the morning, their drill instructors picked the men up and marched them back to their barracks; while the other platoons were able to place their bags on trucks, Jones’ platoon had to carry their bags on their backs (00:12:39:00) o The next morning, the men went through testing, which helped the Corps with training as well as helping decide which job description they would have and whether they would receive any additional military schooling (00:13:15:00)  Jones was lucky and the Corps sent him to three different schools in Quantico, Virginia (00:13:42:00) The boot camp experience was pretty close to the experience portrayed in movies such as Full Metal Jacket (00:14:04:00) o One major difference was the men did not take live ammunition off the firing range; they gave the men three opportunities to get rid of their live ammunition and if they did not, then the men faced possible time in jail for each round they still had on them (00:14:07:00) o The men had four drill instructors who were good to the men but firm; if any of the men screwed up, they got in trouble (00:14:42:00)  The men slept in air-conditioned barracks and sometimes after dinner, when one man or another had screwed up, the drill instructors made the � men due large amounts of PT (physical training) and they turned the air conditioning off in the barracks (00:15:58:00)  One man’s muscles cramped up, so Jones and some other men had to put cold towels on the muscles in an attempt to get the muscles to relax (00:16:32:00) o One recruit referred to his rifle as a gun and the drill instructor told the man to bring over his “weapon”; when the recruit did so, the instructor told him it was a weapon, not a gun, and the recruit was going to dance around the barracks with his rifle until he realized that (00:17:03:00)  The other men had to stand and watch the recruit dance without smiling, which was difficult (00:17:42:00) The training was difficult because the instructors had condensed twelve weeks of training into eight and seeing and hearing what other platoons had to go through while the men were resting made Jones realize how rugged the training was going to be (00:18:15:00) o During bayonet training, Jones’ opponent hit Jones in a place he was not supposed to, so Jones hit the opponent twice in the head (00:18:41:00) o When the men were about to graduate, they had to go on a three-mile run but Jones had hurt his knee during hand-to-hand combat training, so the drill instructor said he and a few other men who were injured did not have to run to course (00:19:14:00)  Word eventually came down that the men might have to run the course on graduation day, so the drill instructor had to explain that the men were injured (00:19:55:00)  The injured men were given the choice and Jones decided to run the course, during which two of his buddies stayed near the back and paced him through (00:20:13:00) o Two weeks before graduation, Jones looked back and questioned whether he would have gone through the training again (00:20:47:00)  He decided that he would because everyone else in his family had gone through boot camp and Jones used to hear the stories (00:21:05:00) o The first time Jones and the other men were standing in the food line when one of the drill instructors got right in a man’s face and derided the man for crying (00:21:44:00)  The incident made Jones question whether he had made the correct decision in joining the Marine Corps over the Air Force (00:22:14:00) o There were more heavyset men in the platoon called “fat bodies” and the drill instructors made sure that the men who had to eat lightly ate separate amounts of food (00:22:26:00) o The drill instructors still cared about the men; for example, during about the third week, Jones got a blister near his Achilles tendon and although he tried not to show it, the senior drill instructor caught it (00:23:08:00)  When Jones explained he had a blister, the drill instructor asked to see it and when Jones showed him, the instructor sent him to sick bay (00:23:38:00) �    When Jones returned to the barracks, the senior drill instructor chewed him out for trying to hide the blister; he explained that despite appearances, the drill instructors did care about the men (00:24:16:00) o There were one hundred men in the platoon and six men ended up washing out but they did end up picking up three stragglers (00:24:44:00) After completing the eight week boot camp, the men had a graduation day, during which Jones was able to see his mother and his girlfriend and was able to be with them until seven o’clock that evening (00:25:43:00) o The men then received their orders at eight o’clock that night for where they were assigned to go (00:25:57:00) o There were also some reservists in the platoon and the drill instructors chided them and tried to get them to switch to a full enlistment (00:26:02:00) o Half the platoon received WESTPAC orders, meaning they were going to Vietnam (00:26:34:00)  Jones did not want to go right away to Vietnam, so he discussed getting school through the Marines with his recruiter and having passed the aptitude test, Jones was able to (00:26:43:00) o The men had to shut their lights off by nine o’clock and they were told that someone would be coming in later to make sure their lights were off (00:27:09:00)  The one drill instructor who had been to Vietnam talked with the men who had WESTPAC orders and explained what to expect while telling the men who would receive schooling that they were blessed and that if they eventually went to Vietnam, they needed to hear it too (00:27:22:00) The next day, the men boarded the buses for Advanced Infantry Training at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina (00:27:56:00) o The experience there was a lot better than the eight weeks of boot camp; the men had a lot more freedom in the barracks and when they were eating (00:28:08:00) o It was nice to be called “Marine” because the men had earned the title, although it eventually reached the point that the men wanted to be called by their names, not just “Marine” (00:28:44:00) o The men lived in good barracks and ate good food (00:29:07:00) o The men went though all the different types of training, including: night training, an infiltration course with bobby-traps, as well as weapons training with the M1 Garand, the M-60, grenade launchers, and hand grenades (00:29:09:00) o Some of the instructors had spent time in Vietnam while others had only served as instructors up until that point (00:30:34:00) o The training lasted for weeks and Jones was able to go home for Thanksgiving after he reported to the base at Quantico, Virginia (00:30:56:00) Jones went to Quantico for more schooling (00:31:07:00) o The Marines sent Jones through logistics training as well as a little bit of intelligence training, training with optical instruments, such as range-finders on tanks and fire-control scopes mounted on 105mm artillery guns, and supply training (00:31:26:00)  There was a little bit of a difference between logistics training and supply training but they were mostly doing the same thing (00:31:57:00) � In logistics, Jones worked with combat support, warehousing, and unit requisition forms and he worked with supply units to organize how the supplies arrived and who received them (00:32:04:00)  With some units, Jones and others had to make sure that they had all their supplies aboard ship when the units left the United States and sailed to Vietnam (00:32:34:00)  The ships would be in port two weeks before leaving, so Jones and others would make sure everything was in order (00:33:17:00)  Jones and the other men knew what each unit would need if they were going to a specific area and would pack the ship with it, as well as some extra supplies the men thought the unit might need once they were in the field (00:34:19:00) o Jones stayed in Quantico for two weeks and completed his schooling before receiving his orders for Vietnam (00:34:45:00) Vietnam Deployment (00:35:01:00)  Jones got to Vietnam on a flight from California to Da Nang (00:35:01:00) o The military used a combination of civil airliners and military aircraft to transport soldiers to and from the country (00:35:20:00)  Jones’ first impression of Vietnam when he got of the plane was the heat (00:35:33:00)  After reporting in, Jones and the other men went to see the corpsman, who talked with the men about what to expect climate wise (00:35:38:00) o The corpsman also advised the men not to get sun-burned and to that end, the military provided sunscreen (00:35:53:00)  Following the corpsman’s lecture, Jones and the other men went through indoctrination then reported to headquarters supply for the 1st Marine Division in Da Nang although the main division was headquartered in Saigon as part of I Corps (00:36:34:00) o Jones’ duties will in Saigon consisted of warehousing and preparing manifests (00:37:02:00) o Jones was a corporal at the time and worked with the more senior NCOs as well as the unit’s XO (executive officer) and CO (commanding officer) (00:37:06:00)  The unit’s CO was a captain who had risen through the ranks, which was nice because if a man screwed up, the CO would chew him out but he also knew what the men were going through (00:35:01:00)  The CO might deride the men and call them names but he also respected them (00:37:44:00) o The men worked in the warehouse section of the base in Da Nang, making sure the supplies coming in the United States was correct, and in offices on another part of the base (00:38:16:00) o Mostly, Jones’ unit worked as combat support (00:38:54:00)  Whenever a Marine unit would request supplies, the requisition form would move through various units in the chain of command although sometimes, the forms came directly to the unit (00:39:00:00)  The men then had to process the form and there were times Jones spent more time in the office working on forms than in the warehouse organizing the supplies (00:39:17:00) �    Once the forms were complete, the men organized the requested supplies on a palette that was then loaded onto either a Chinook helicopter or a Deuce-and-a-Half truck (00:39:34:00)  The men supplied Marine units in the field, meaning sometimes the requisition forms were for survey equipment or more weapons, ammunition or provisions (00:40:04:00) o The men also worked with communication units if the units needed new communication equipment, while other logistical units worked with the Marine air wing (00:40:55:00) o The men also did inventory control making sure they had enough inventory of the supplies they needed (00:41:45:00)  After completing their inventories, the men sent requisition forms back stateside for the supplies they needed (00:41:59:00) Jones wishes the system had been more efficient than it actually was; the system was efficient but Jones and others wanted to get the supplies out quicker to the units who requested them (00:42:27:00) o Apart from paperwork, the men also dealt with some bureaucracy that made sure everything was done the way it was supposed to be done (00:42:55:00)  Jones and two other corporals got in trouble when a Marine unit requested equipment they needed badly, such as ammunition and M-60 machine guns, and the three men jumped said unit ahead of other units waiting in the queue (00:43:21:00)  When the XO found out, the men explained that they thought the one unit was more of a priority than the other units but the XO did not view it that way (00:44:13:00) When Jones returned to the United States, Marines in the frontline units told him that he did what he had to do so that they could do what they had to do (00:44:50:00) o Jones and the others felt a little guilt because they were not out in the field fighting, especially when they heard stories from other soldiers (00:44:57:00) While on the base, the men had to watch out for saboteurs amongst the large civilian population that worked on the base (00:45:52:00) o The men tried not to let their guard down because even though they were in a “secure” area, they had to remember where they were, a country they were at war with (00:46:04:00) o One time, a guard did see something and they captured a Vietnamese who was marking the base off for mortar strikes (00:46:21:00) o During the Tet Offensive, the base was attacked and Viet Cong tried to get onto the base three different times (00:47:03:00)  During the offensive, the men on the base scrambled to get to the different locations assigned to them (00:47:36:00)  Jones’ unit was expected to go out into the compound with their weapons with the explanation that the job of any Marine was to be a rifleman first, everything else second (00:47:47:00)  The men went out to bunkers with their weapons and secured their building (00:48:09:00) �     During the offensive, a lot of the enemy were stopped at the gate but some did make it onto the base, but they too were stopped before they could do any real damage to the base (00:48:30:00)  It was scary to get shot at but the men’s adrenaline was going and they did not think about it until after the fighting stopped (00:48:39:00)  There were also some mortar and rocket attacks on the base but those were concentrated around where the aircraft were sitting; however, the pilots flew the aircraft out quickly so the attacks would not damage any (00:49:17:00)  The mortar and rocket fire was target but the men were able to repeal it rather easily (00:49:48:00) Jones did not much contact with any Vietnamese, civilian or military (00:50:09:00) o Once in awhile, someone from the Vietnamese military would come into their area and talk with the CO (00:50:11:00) o Some of the female Vietnamese civilians on the base washed clothes while the Vietnamese men helped clean the barracks (00:50:30:00) The men stayed in barracks on the base along with men from other units in the Marines headquarters (00:50:52:00) Jones was able to get off the base a couple of times but he mostly stayed on because he felt more secure there (00:51:32:00) o It was possible for soldiers to go into the civilian parts of Da Nang although whenever they did go, the soldiers went in as a group (00:51:50:00)  A couple of men took weapons with them in holsters (00:52:12:00) o There were still a few men who took more risks and went into the city more frequently (00:52:25:00) Jones believes that the morale within his unit was good; the men knew the situation and what they had to do (00:52:47:00) o Occasionally, there were some men who got in trouble, but as not talking properly to an officer, and they were punished but there was never any major incident within the unit (00:53:11:00) o When he got to Vietnam, Jones tried to do his job they way his superiors wanted him to do the job (00:53:32:00)  However, on some occasions, Jones and other men improvised and cut a few corners to get the job done faster (00:53:46:00) o The men somewhat tried to keep abreast of the situation in the field and they would see units coming in from the field (00:54:30:00) o The Americans were supposed to be in Vietnam to help to South Vietnamese and Jones remembers one time in the barracks talking amongst themselves and comparing the conflict to the American Civil War (00:55:05:00)  At times, the men felt like they were being held back from doing their job they way they wanted to do it (00:55:28:00)  The men also felt that, based on their own impressions, sometimes the units in the field were handcuffed in doing their job (00:56:01:00)  However, the men did not want to become too involved in the political aspects; they were there to do a job, so they kept their heads down and pushed through (00:56:42:00) � Although Jones never actually went down to Saigon, some men in the unit did end up going (00:57:03:00) o On the other hand, when the men were able to go out of the country, Jones and some other men went to the Philippines (00:57:18:00) o There was also had in-country R&R, which consisted of going to Saigon or another area in the country (00:57:45:00) o A couple of times, the men went to the beach and had a party (00:58:20:00) Post-Vietnam Service (00:58:33:00)  Jones spent twelve months in Vietnam (00:58:33:00) o One night while walking to see a movie, he felt pain on his; he had cysts in both his feet but they had never bothered him (00:58:40:00) o He was due to rotate back to stateside and the Marines told him that they wanted the leg pain looked at when he got stateside (00:59:03:00) o When he got back to Quantico, he had surgery on both his feet at the Naval hospital to remove the cysts and was laid up for about a month (00:59:12:00)  After he got out of the hospital, Jones was assigned to the headquarters battery at Quantico; he was told he would be stateside for six months but after three, he received orders for Guantánamo Bay, Cuba (00:59:53:00)  When he got to Guantánamo Bay, Jones was assigned to the Marines barracks, where he ended up working with the Navy due to his training in logistics and supply (01:00:13:00) o He also worked with base security and the Marines assigned to guard the fenceline of the base (01:00:42:00)  A friend of Jones in the Navy commented when his ship stopped at the base that the men on the base had a “fort-like mentality” given the base’s location on the island (01:01:11:00) o Technically the base was still part of Cuba and the American government paid rent to him every year for it through a Swiss bank account (01:01:35:00) o At the time, the perimeter was always manned by Marines guards and although there was a Cuba guard post, no one ever manned it, which is not the case today (01:02:34:00) o The Cuban civilians were nice to the personnel on the base and as a result, there were eighty civilian Cuban workers on the base; some worked in the base’s bowling alley and others in the snack bar within the bowling alley (01:03:13:00)  One time, Jones and another man were driving a jeep past the outpost when the Marines manning the outpost asked if they wanted hamburgers; the Cubans working at the snack bar were going to make extra hamburgers and give them to the guards as they left (01:03:43:00)  Both Jones and the other Marine said they would, so the guards told them when to come back and when they did, the Cubans had left three paper bags full of hamburgers (01:04:21:00) o Whenever the men checked the perimeter, they knew they were being watched by Cubans on the other side (01:04:59:00)  The Marines had alerts but they were more like training in the event that the Cubans would come through the base’s first, second, or third line of defense (01:05:52:00) �o People in the administration build would tip the Marines off as to when their colonel set the timer for everything to go off; an alert might go off at four in the morning but the men would already be dressed in the their uniforms and had all their equipment nearby (01:06:07:00) o Jones’ detachment of Marines slept in a separate building from the main barracks and they were able to get into their jeeps and move out faster (01:06:37:00)  The barracks were on a hill that the men had to go down before joining the road that led out to the perimeter and the main gate (01:06:50:00) o The Marines went through the drills once a month and one time, the alert went off in the middle of the week and normally the drills did not take place until the end of the week (01:07:37:00)  The men all rolled out and at that particular time, Jones was walking to the barracks; when he heard the alert, he looked out into the bay and saw three Navy destroyers beginning to maneuver (01:07:51:00)  Everyone else began moving and looking for the ammunition, which was padlocked; the men ended up breaking the padlocks with the butts of a couple of rifles, after which they passed out the ammunition (01:08:17:00)  The trucks rolled up and Jones ordered his to make sure the road was secure so that the rest of the men could get down the hill and out to the perimeter (01:08:50:00)  When Jones left, he took extra ammunition with him for the men manning the north perimeter of the base; when he got there, he ordered the platoon back from the first line of defense to the third line (01:09:24:00)  There were three guards to a guard tower and each guard had five rounds apiece for his rifle (01:09:54:00) o Jones heard that shortly after the Cuban Missile Crisis, a Marine in a guard tower wanted to test if the rifle could really go one thousand yards and he inadvertently killed a Cuban soldier, which caused a firestorm at the UN and the guards only having five rounds; whether the story is true or not, Jones does not know (01:10:22:00) o Five rounds apiece would not do much so the guards were told to fall back to the third line of defense to pick up extra ammunition (01:10:58:00)  Jones also brought a jeep with a mounted M-60 machine gun and when he arrived, he and the other men waited (01:11:17:00)  Jones later heard that the Marines set a record time in getting out the perimeter and into position (01:11:22:00)  The men eventually found out that the colonel had been trying to set the alert to go off for Thursday and had accidentally tripped it; normally the men had classes after breakfast but on that day, the classes were cancelled and the mess hall stayed open through the midday meal so the men could unwind (01:11:34:00) o Another time, Jones and some other men were off-duty and standing near the outdoor movie theater when they saw a Russian ship moving across the canal, something was which not allowed on Sundays (01:12:09:00) �    As two Navy tugs went to investigate, the men went back, got their uniforms on, and then drove to the north perimeter and got into a guard tower to get a better view of the situation (01:12:30:00)  There was a sandbar separating the canals and when the two tugs arrived, they tried to stop the ship but the Russian captain kept forcing the ship forward (01:12:55:00)  One of the destroyers eventually weighed anchor and went to GQ (general quarters) and the men watched as jeeps mounted with M-60s and a .50 caliber moved along the perimeter (01:13:11:00)  The men also learned that the other Marine platoons had been readied near the barracks in case anything did happen (01:13:48:00)  Fortunately, nothing happened during the incident; the Russian captain eventually stopped the ship and the Navy tugs were able to get a hold of it (01:13:57:00) Jones spent twelve months at Guantánamo Bay, after which he still had another year left on his enlistment (01:14:28:00) o Once, Jones had the opportunity to be a disc jockey for the Armed Forces radio on the base and one night, a general on the base came through the radio station and he asked Jones if he liked doing the job; Jones said he did and the general suggested doing it as an MOS (01:14:53:00)  The general said he would have Jones out of Guantánamo Bay within a week and taken to wherever they trained the broadcasters (01:15:52:00)  However, if he wanted to do that MOS, Jones might possibly have had to extend his enlistment for another four, possibly six years, whereas if he got out of the military, he could go to college and then be able to make more money (01:16:02:00)  Jones though about the offer but the general wanted an answer the next morning; however, Jones was still leery about the extended commitment he would have to give and he declined (01:16:34:00) At one point, Jones did give some consideration to staying in the military; he could do night class at college but staying in meant more inspections and peace time activities now that the Vietnam War was winding down (01:17:01:00) When he left Guantánamo Bay, Jones was given three choices as to where he wanted to go and he put Quantico first, Camp Lejeune second, and Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, which was near where he had lived in New Hampshire, third (01:10:22:00) o He got Camp Lejeune, so he joined the 2nd Marines Division, 10th Marines Headquarters Battalion, where he went back to doing supply; Jones’ new CO was similar to his former CO in Vietnam, willing to let the men get away with certain things (01:17:58:00)  On one occasion, some men took their time off and went to Washington D.C., which they were not supposed to do, and their car ended up breaking down; when the men got back to the base, they told the CO the truth and as punishment, the men had to paint the barracks one hour each night for five days (01:18:17:00) �o Another time, the CO put through Jones through military driver school because Jones went and moved a six-by because he got tired of waiting for his deuce-anda-half to load (01:20:01:00)  Jones did so well that every so often, the regimental gunnery sergeant would request that Jones help him as an instructor at the driving school (01:20:32:00) Post-Military Life (01:20:56:00)  When he finally did get out of the military, Jones attended Michigan State University and graduated with degrees in HR and business (01:20:56:00)  He made the conscious decision that if someone asked him whether he had served, Jones would say he had served in the United State Marine Corps but he would not go beyond that (01:21:11:00) o He knew what the negative viewpoint of former soldiers was that had been propagated by the media (01:21:25:00) o When he was asked one time, Jones said he did serve in the Marines but he considered all the soldiers to be his comrades-in-arms and they did not need to be treated badly (01:21:49:00)  Jones did see a lot of the anti-war protests when he was in Quantico and when he and other men would leave the base dressed in civilian clothes (01:22:30:00) o One time, Jones and some other men saw some protestors about to burn the American flag; Jones and the other men ran over, knocked to protestors down, and protected the flag (01:22:48:00) o Two of the protestors got up and complained to the D.C. cops, who said they had not seen a thing; later on, one of the cops pulled the men aside and thanked them because they could not do what the men did (01:23:03:00) o The men also visited Arlington Cemetery, which left a major impression on them (01:23:31:00)  After getting his degrees, Jones went into sales because he liked that line of work (01:23:53:00) o He eventually went to work for a placement agency where he worked for twelve years before he had a chance to create a franchise offering temp and permanent workers, which he has done for the past twelve to fourteen years (01:23:58:00)  Jones learned more about sacrifice while serving in the military as well as more respect, which reinforced what he had learned when he was younger (01:24:39:00) o During the first Desert Storm, Jones and other veterans made the decision that those soldiers would not go through what they went through, so every week the veterans marched down the main street of Holland (01:25:04:00) o During an anti-war protest in downtown Grand Rapids, Michigan for the more recent war in Iraq, Jones called into a local television station and commented about how the protestors needed to realize how things would be different and how the protestors needed to show respect for the soldiers (01:25:51:00)  Jones had no problem protesting government policies but he draws the line at protesting against the troops; the troops are deployed where ever they are told to go (01:26:58:00) �  Although he was close to some men who ended up dying, Jones realized that they were either in a warring country, in Vietnam, or in the middle of the Cold War, at Guantánamo Bay and death could happen at any time (01:27:54:00) o There were some Vietnam veterans serving at Guantánamo Bay and they realized they had to protect not only the civilians on the base but also the Marines who had come fresh out of boot camp (01:28:19:00) He did not go to the Vietnam Memorial when it first opened but he did end up going with some other people later (01:28:57:00) o He went with a lady friend and they took their time going down; when they eventually found the name of a friend of Jones’, they made a rubbing (01:28:15:00) o The lady friend later told him that one moment Jones doing fine and the next moment, he was crying, after which the others who were there gathered around Jones and supported him (01:29:43:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JonesW Title A name given to the resource Jones, Williams (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jones, William Description An account of the resource Born in Kalamazoo, Michigan in 1947, William Jones divided his younger years growing up between Ionia, Michigan and Manchester, New Hampshire. After graduating from high school in Manchester, Jones followed family tradition and enlisted in the military, specifically the Marine Corps. After completing basic training at Parris Island, South Carolina and Advanced Individual Training (AIT) at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, Jones went to the Marine Corps' base at Quantico, Virginia for training in supply and logistics. When he finished training at Quantico, Jones deployed to Vietnam, where he served with the 1st Marine Division in Da Nang as part of a supply and logistics unit. Following a yearlong tour in Vietnam, Jones returned to the United States before deploying overseas again, this time to Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. Once his tour at Guantánamo Bay was complete, Jones returned to Camp Lejeune, where he finished the remainder of his enlistment. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-02-10 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/68d112d64ca0ae5c40bbf2eaaf6709f0.mp4 21fec26c549578257e0f101af9bd4314 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5766154773b902b65783445294d650fb.pdf a8c900603472652a00586dbb2c776297 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Bobby Jones Total Time – (40:44) Background             He was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on July 6, 1925 (00:34) He stayed in one place when he was a kid His dad worked at a local bakery (01:03) o He then went to work at Ramona Park in East Grand Rapids, Michigan He was an only son (01:18) He graduated from Creston High School (01:26) o There were roughly seven or eight black kids in the school o For the most part, they were treated well (01:45) He played in the band in school His father had a job throughout the 1930’s (02:16) He heard about Pearl Harbor through the news (02:46) o He heard on the radio o The Monday after Pearl Harbor was almost a typical day (03:03) Before Pearl Harbor happened, he knew very little of what was going on in the war He graduated from high school in 1943 (03:47) He received a draft notice two months after he graduated He did not have many plans for after high school Enlistment/Training – (04:11)    After he received the draft notice, he went to North Carolina (04:19) o Before he left for North Carolina, they stopped in Detroit, Michigan (04:36) o The racial composition of the men leaving was mixed (04:58) When he left, he was leaving straight for the Marines o He had been asked if he wanted Army or Navy – he responded by telling them that he preferred the Marines (05:31) While he was going through the northern states, the races were separated on the train o He did not sleep on the train (06:16) �          o The train did not go straight into the camp When he was first greeted when he arrived at the camp, the men were treated normally (06:46) He was then sent to Montford Point Camp (06:57) o It was a camp set up specifically for black Marines o He arrived during the day (07:12) The Drill Instructors treated the troops like their inferiors (07:47) o They taught them where they were and what they were there for  They also taught them what they could do and what they should not do (07:54) In Boot Camp training he was taught to obey o The majority of the exercise was marching (08:37) o They did not receive any weapons training o The Marines were strongly encouraged to make their beds properly and keep their uniforms clean (08:55)  They were just told to do it  If they did not do it, they would get hit (09:08) o They were trying to break people down so that they would obey orders o He knew nothing about the Marine Corps when he entered (09:34) Most of the men that he trained with moved out (10:00) o He stayed in North Carolina At Montford Point Camp he helped train some new recruits coming in (10:28) The Drill Instructors at the camp were white (10:43) o He had more contact with the Drill Instructors than the Officers He was eventually shipped to Okinawa (11:10) o He had previously been in Iwo Jima (11:28) o He was there in the early part of 1945 (11:34) At Montford Point, he had to get up at 6 A.M. and would work until 4 P.M. o There were no opportunities to go off base  He was part of the base personnel (12:17) o When he left, some of the black men had become Corporals or Sergeants o When he left he was a Corporal (12:36) o He had been following the news of the war – he would hear and read about it  He was just wondering where he was going to go (13:00) o They trained him on rifles during his year at the camp o He had not shot a gun when he was growing up (13:47) Montford Point Camp celebrated the holidays but he does not remember anything special Active Duty – (14:58)  When he found out that he was leaving Montford Point, he was taken to Virginia where he went aboard a ship headed to the Pacific �                o He got sick on the voyage (15:41) o The ship sailed in a convoy (15:49) o They traveled through the Panama Canal o All of the soldiers being shipped over were black (16:32) o At this point he was not with his unit On the way through the Pacific, the convoy stopped in Guam (17:08) When he arrived at Iwo Jima, there was still some shooting going on (17:27) o He served on guard duty while there (17:59) o He cannot remember hearing any shooting going on o He was stationed near an air strip He is then sent to Okinawa (19:05) o He was assigned to clean (19:53) When on Iwo Jima, he saw some Japanese aircraft and Japanese men o The aircraft were kamikaze planes or bombers (20:56) o He was never very close to any of the fighting or air attacks He always did what he was told to do He was glad that he did not have to be a combat soldier (22:31) He remembers hearing about the atomic bomb When he was on Guam or any of the other islands, he never saw any of the civilian populations (23:33) Before the black troops arrived in the Pacific, the white soldiers had told all of the women that the black men had tails and to stay away from them (24:16) After he came back to the United States he stayed in the military o He asked if he could reenlist and stay (25:15) o He became a Drill Instructor He enjoyed being a Drill Instructor because it was different and he had never been in that position before (25:27) o The men below him would listen to what he said o He did not receive any training o It was new to have black instructors (26:02) As an instructor he has more freedom to leave the base if he would like o Drinking was the only thing to do for soldiers that left the base (26:59) When he was training men, there were a couple of instructors o He was typically responsible for leading marches (27:36) He slept in separate barracks from the men o The white men were segregated from the black men (27:48) After his reenlistment was up, he decided that it was time for him to leave (28:13) o He had no idea what he wanted to do after the military When he was a Drill Instructor he would make men salute him while standing over a barrel of water. Consequently, they would fall into the barrel because they would bring their feet together (28:29) o The same kinds of things were done to him when he was in training �After the Service – (29:14)             When he was discharged in 1948, he returned home to Grand Rapids, Michigan (29:15) He looked for a job when he was back He never considered going to college (29:28) He eventually found a factory job (29:40) o He stayed in the factory for nearly forty-two years (29:51) o He worked on an assembly line o He became the shop steward (30:09) He got married in 1949 o His wife was someone that he had not known from before he went into service (30:33) His cousin would write to him while he was in the service o They grew up together o Some of his aunts would send some letters as well (31:06)  His aunts took him under their wing after his mother died when he was very young He had three children His wife was strict (32:28) o She was the first black telephone operator in Lansing, Michigan o When she got engaged, she asked for a transfer – they had to take a vote in Grand Rapids, Michigan to see if they were willing to accept her (32:47)  She worked for the company for over forty years  She had received her job in Lansing with help from the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People) (33:17)  They were forcing some of the companies to hire people of color o His wife’s brother was Malcolm X (34:01)  Malcolm X would go to their home (35:12)  There was no honor at the time of being relatives with Malcolm X  It would be private when he would go over He was the only member of his family in the service (36:32) If he had to do it all over again, he would (36:40) o He would also pick the Marines The service helped him learn to obey o He truly enjoyed his time in the Marine Corps (37:26) He received a Congressional Gold Medal for his time at Montford Point Camp (40:04) o He said that they did not need to give him a medal for his time there because he did it to serve his country and that is what he wanted to do � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JonesB1461V Title A name given to the resource Jones, Bobby (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jones, Bobby Jones, Steven Jones, Deborah Description An account of the resource Bobby Jones was born in July of 1925 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He graduated from Creston High School where he was one of eight African American students. After receiving his draft notice two months after graduation, Bobby left for Montford Point Camp in North Carolina for Basic Training. He stayed and helped train new recruits once Basic Training was completed. Bobby then boarded a ship in Virginia for Okinawa. En route to Okinawa, he passed through the Panama Canal, Guam, and Iwo Jima. When he returned to the United States, Bobby reenlisted for four years and became a Drill Instructor. He remembers the training facilities being segregated between blacks and whites. In 1949 he married the sister of Malcolm X. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Marine Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-10-18 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c44a420d4bfdde9cebce09bdbbaaa952.mp4 1d20dc209eb722d56bfdef93d436ee38 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/74fc409d131534a9a06c394a3751677f.pdf b6c6f1d106c786c82eb159826c202ede PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Name of War: Vietnam War Name of Interviewee: Bert Jones II Length of Interview (00:22:38) Background (00:00:03)  Born on Sept 9, 1949  Served in Vietnam/Cambodia for the United States’ Army  Highest rank achieved, E4  Father was a Veteran of World War II; oldest brother was 30 years in the Navy, retired; Uncles were Veterans, one in particular was a WWII, Korean War, and Vietnam Veteran  Dad was a truck driver, mother was a house wife  Had two brothers and four sisters  Born in Grand Rapids, MI Training (00:01:55)  Went through eight weeks of basic and eight weeks of AIT  Was a part of a “permanent party” at Fort Sill, Oklahoma for four or five months, went to Vietnam from there  Did RVM training for a couple weeks, taught about Vietnam  Was an eighteen year old, did fairly well adapting to the Army life Tan Yen Province, Vietnam (00:03:24)  Was a combat soldier, saw a lot of combat in Vietnam and Cambodia  Fought enemy soldiers who would cross the borders from Cambodia and run back for protection until U.S. soldiers got the okay to go into Cambodia  Appreciates Nixon for allowing the cross into Cambodia  Served in the Tan Yen Province of Vietnam almost exclusively; in Cambodia for only 45 days (00:04:00)  Tan Yen Province, near the Black Virgin Mountain and Cambodian border (00:04:24)  Jones could always see that mountain from anywhere in Tan Yen  Never gained control of the mountain, had control of the top and had fire support bases at the bottom  Had B-52 strikes on it daily, but still couldn’t gain control  Mainly Vietcong and North Vietnamese soldiers in there  There may have been a 6,000 bed hospital in the mountain (00:5:23)  Heard stories that they could send soldiers up there and, from the sides, rock walls would slide open; also had all kinds of artillery  Lots of supply tunnels that went pass the fire support bases  Never saw any of this but confident that this is all true  Communicated with his family via mail, would sometimes take a long time to receive mail (00:06:16)  Was a highlight to Jones’ day when he received mail �   Was in a lot of remote places where choppers couldn’t reach them Mail was delivered by chopper, as well as, food and water Didn’t form many friendships; would not because they usually ended up dying (00:07:00)  Was a “full time soldier”, so he did not do very much besides fighting (00:07:22)  It was tough for soldiers, especially with the heat, bugs, and combat; but the people had it worse (00:07:45)  No food, would sometimes fight over garbage left behind  It bothered Jones to watch them do this, especially children; will never forget the suffering Feels numb to his emotions when in battle (00:08:54)  Doesn’t hit you until afterwards, saw some horrific things After Vietnam (00:9:30)  Was at home, in Freeport, MI, when the Vietnam War ended  Watched the end of it on T.V.  It was disheartening to watch what he fought so hard for be given back so easily  It was a bitter-sweet ending; glad to see everyone come back, but to have fought for nothing was a bitter ending; waste of money and lives (00:10:15)  Not pro-war, but feels that if you start something, you finish it  When coming back home, had some problems, “isolated incidences”, with people (00:11:03)  Was treated by family well though, that’s what counts  Hard to see people so cold to the War because of the negative press; like Iraq (00:11:46)  It was like they’re trying to turn you against your own people  It was tough to readjust, drank a lot, but his wife helped him get through it (00:12:50)  Started going to reunions/conferences for Veterans about four years ago (00:13:30)  Was impressed with it, feels like a huge therapy session with thousands of others Veterans  A lot of “negative numbers”/statistics on Vietnam Veterans, so the conference helps Veterans deal with their struggles  Lots of drinking, partying, and camaraderie  Recommends it for others who are struggling, very uplifting  Have professional speakers and programs  Happens annually  Only contacted one person he served with, a man from Missouri (00:15:10)  A cool experience, was in the “Battle of Pine Ridge” with him  After being in the War, Jones’ appreciates the U.S.A and life a lot more (00:16:54)  Thought it strange that the people trying to kill you in war don’t even know you; hard to rationalize and justify (00:17:45)  Uses his music to get through his struggles after the War; needs to focus on something else (00:18:40)  Gets better over the years, easier to deal with �  Might be ready to go to the monument (00:19:33) Wants people to remember, that when we send troops off to war, they are our people, our brothers, sisters, mothers, and fathers; no matter what, we must stand by them, for or against the war (00:22:01) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JonesB Title A name given to the resource Jones, Bert R., II (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jones, Bert R. Description An account of the resource Bert Jones II was a combat soldier in the Vietnam War for the U.S. Army. He mainly fought in the Tan Yen Province, but was in Cambodia for 45 days, as well. He does not discuss in specific detail what he did during the War, but he does describe the emotional impact it caused. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Canada, Kelsey (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-06-01 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/68cfec5319c4250a12ca1c2dc0e38264.mp4 9daf9d3e382a35085146b24a192f4617 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e75648f805dd75ad826109db8961659a.pdf 144f2c4b9e96bb4c9978dd4e739ba6db PDF Text Text William Johnson (1:17:06) (00:03) Background Information • • • • William was born November 21, 1923 in Grand Rapids, MI William graduated high school and then Enlisted in the Air Corps weather school In 1943 he was released to the draft He was drafted on September 2, 1943 (2:49) Training • • • • • • • William was sent to Fort Custer for basic training He was then sent to Camp Gruber, OK and was assigned to the infantry First he was in the 42nd infantry and then he transferred into the 79th infantry division William was assigned to communications in the regiment HQ message center He was part of C company They sent him to Camp Phillips, KA for 2 months William was then sent to Camp Miles Standish, MA and boarded a ship to go to Europe (8:24) Deployment • • • • • • • • • • • They met the convoy east of Greenland He was on a converted cruise ship and it took him about a week to get there It was the middle of winter and sometimes the waves were about 20 feet They unloaded in Liverpool and were trucked to Manchester William was in England until June 6 He was picked to go ahead of the division in a small group and left for Normandy on a Victory ship There were a lot of casualties on the beach and there was still fighting going on in the area They had to wait for another division to clear out a village behind the beach before they could move in William was shot at when he would deliver messages in a jeep from HQ to battalion The messages were sent by sealed envelopes and telephone They delivered the Stars and Stripes newspaper (18:20) Paris and Germany • • Their division moved just north of Paris and while they were there Paris was liberated William didn’t go into Paris �• • • • • • • • • • They went to Lorraine and then Alsace His division was some of the first troops in Germany There wasn’t much resistance because the Germans were worn out He was able to go in a concentration camp when they liberated it When the war was over he was part of the Army of Occupation in Czechoslovakia William was in Germany on VE day They were scheduled to go to Japan His unit went to the border of East and West Germany He lost some hearing from the bombings beginning at Normandy William was also hit in the shin with shrapnel at Normandy, but didn’t want to get taken to the hospital for it (38:50) Heading Back to the US • • • • • • • • • • He went into combat duty for 2 weeks and did guard duty William had enough points to go home and he was just waiting for the orders He took some weekend passes and went to the Riviera William got on a boat at Marseilles around Thanksgiving of 1945 It was a liberty ship and it took them 29 days to get back across William and a lot of others got sea sick because they were on a smaller boat They got off in Virginia and took a train to Atterbury, IN William was discharged and went back to Grand Rapids He owned a gas station and a plating company William is the only one left out of the 8 in his message center unit � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonW Title A name given to the resource Johnson, William (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, William Description An account of the resource William Johnson served in a regimental communications center in the 79th Division in Europe during World War II. He landed on Utah Beach with an advance party shortly after D-Day, and participated in the campaigns in Normandy, France and Germany. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dilly, Keaton (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-02 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2050f79d3486889ee884dc965f0ebd80.mp4 495ed39a6042b6690b1f9c420ca0095d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/846f380ffdf9894315f810beca434d8d.pdf 0c4bcc87a6c9e0ac9b03eceefbb599ec PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Mae Johnson Total Time – (29:18) Background · She was born in Waterbury, Connecticut on July 14, 1919 (00:18) · She graduated from Leavenworth High School (00:24) · Some of the men from her high school were being sent into the Army and the girls wanted to keep them happy so they would join a club to write to them and send them goodies · She graduated in 1937 (01:01) · After she graduated she stayed at home and earned some money so she could go to nursing school · She attended nursing school in Greenwich, Connecticut (01:39) o She became sick and could not finish school · After she could not finish nursing school, she did a lot of babysitting jobs and worked at a company that made parts for gyroscopes (02:07) · When the attacks on Pearl Harbor happened, she was at home with her dad (02:48) · She then travels out to California with a friend and is forced to find work there o She worked for a steel company o She did some kind of work for the military · In California she had a job working with a bastard file (03:34) · She remained in California until she could make enough money to return home to Connecticut · When she returned to Connecticut, she decided to join the service in the Woman’s Army Corps (WAC) (05:41) Enlistment/Training – (05:54) · She enlisted in New Haven, Connecticut (06:02) · She was then sent to Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia for basic training (06:12) · In basic training there was a lot of marching, schoolwork, etc. o She always feared that she would fall out of step when marching (07:05) �Active Duty – (07:38) · After basic training in Georgia, she was sent to Hot Springs, Arkansas (07:40) · She was stationed at a hospital in Arkansas · In Hot Springs, her job was to do everything except for charting (08:57) o The nurses would do charting and the dispensing of medication o She was assigned to the Surgical and Medical Wards · It was a large adjustment of living with so many women and in such small quarters (10:11) · She believes that the veterans coming in bolstered the officers working at the hospital · She was then sent to Fort Sheridan, Illinois at the base hospital (11:22) o She did the same kind of work at Fort Sheridan as before · She was in Illinois in the earlier part of 1945 (12:45) · Fort Sheridan had barracks for the officers · Her parents were happy that she enlisted · Fort Sheridan had a lot of potential for activities because it was so close to Chicago, Illinois (16:18) · In Chicago, she enjoyed going to the museums o One time she was given tickets to the Northwestern football game · There was a hotel on Michigan Avenue in Chicago that allowed servicemen and women to lodge for free (18:43) o She stayed there several times · She had met her future husband while at Fort Sheridan · When he proposed she said, “No way. I am not marrying any man that’s going to smoke a cigarette.” (19:32) o He picked her over the cigarettes · They got married at the Fort Sheridan Chapel (20:14) o Both of their parents came to the wedding and met the night before the wedding · She was still in the WAC when she got married (21:51) · Their first son was born in 1949 and their second in 1951 · At the wedding, their wedding cake was made by a German POW who was one of the cooks (24:31) · She saw a lot of the German POW’s and SS guards at Fort Sheridan (25:12) · The German prisoners were treated very well · One time she became very close to a patient that had her face shattered (26:58) o She was constantly with the injured patient § She would try to emotionally sooth her · It was heartbreaking to see the men at the Army and Navy General Hospitals (27:54) · She was very happy that she went into the Army · She found the previous nursing training as very helpful for her (28:41) �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonM1348V Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Mae (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Mae Description An account of the resource Mae Johnson was born in Waterbury, Connecticut, in 1919. She graduated from Leavenworth High School in 1937 and eventually went to nursing school. Because she could not finish nursing school, Mae traveled to California with a friend. After visiting California, she decided she would enlist in Woman's Army Corps (WAC) in New Haven, Connecticut. She was then sent to Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia for basic training. After basic training, Mae was sent to Hot Springs, Arkansas where she worked in a hospital as she was assigned to the Surgical and Medical Wards. Once she was finished in Arkansas in early 1945, she was sent to Fort Sheridan, Illinois where she maintained a similar position as before. While at Fort Sheridan she met her future husband and met many German POWs. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army. Women's Army Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-08 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/082269c4a9bd70e423eccc04e893e519.mp4 49f779bbc52a2d57ec2aec689a8e099f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9896d672e6e998e7816ccc28e6ecea88.pdf 95ca4bac358091c92b05fcaf79f6b659 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Forrest Johnson World War II (1:24:20) Background Information (1:20)           Born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, on January 18th 1922. (1:22) His father was a millwright (1:33) His father kept this job until they fired him. The then found another job that he worked till he retired. He did not have trouble keeping work during the Depression. (2:15) He graduated from Davis Tech high school in 1941. He met his wife in high school. (2:33) He has been married twice. His second wife being a German woman. (3:24) The night of Pearl Harbor happened he decided to marry his high school girl friend. (3:57) He tried to volunteer for the military. He went to the Army Air Corps in Muskegon. He made it in but was rejected due to his color blindness. (4:37) He was rejected from the Marines as well because they knew of his color blindness. (5:20) He had a son before going into service. (5:45) He was drafted in 1943 (6:20) Basic training (7:05)               He first went to Camp Bowie, Texas. (7:08) He attempted to join the 215th Combat Police but failed. (7:25) Unable to make it as an MP, he was sent to Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio, Texas, to go into basic infantry. (7:50) In the early stages of basic the men did a lot of hiking. They had not yet been assigned a weapon. (8:30) He joined the 95th infantry Division. All the new men were kept together. (10:00) The men were sent to Camp Needles, California. The men were sent to the base by train. The trip took 3 days. (11:12) The men were then loaded on to trucks and taken to another camp in California which was a tent city in the “middle of nowhere.” (11:37) While the men were performing a drill some got lost in the mountains and were lost for 3 days. (12:15) After discovered the men were sent back to the camp via truck. (13:20) The men did many maneuvers during training. The company was seen as being too old of age to be applicable in combat. The average age of his division was 34. (14:24) In order to drop the average age many men were replaced with younger soldiers. After the average age was dropped the men were given new equipment. (15:20) From California the men were sent to Pennsylvania. Here he recalls having rappelling exercises. (15:44) While rappelling, one of the men fell. He was not injured. (17:58) He was in Pennsylvania for about 2 weeks. Here they did more maneuvers. (20:07) �       His platoon had to train other troops here on climbing after they were trained on the subject. (21:00) While the engineers were building a bridge, one of them drowned and the bridge was not completed. (22:25) His platoon frequently ran maneuvers where the men had to take a machine gun position. (23:33) When returning from a maneuver, the jeep that carried him popped 3 tires trying to get back to the base. (24:38) In the later part of his training in Pennsylvania, his platoon was assigned ASTP men who were younger. (The program sent promising recruits to colleges to prepare them for engineer training, but was abruptly cancelled and the men were reassigned to the infantry.) This dropped the average age of the company significantly. (25:31) The men were then given new equipment such as rifles. Forrest however, was not assigned a new rifle. (25:41) From Pennsylvania the men were sent to Camp Miles Standish in Massachusetts. (25:58) Voyage to Europe (26:30)        The men were then sent over on a confiscated French cruise liner from New York to Liverpool, England, in August of 1944. (26:54) The trip took 5 days. (27:25) From Liverpool the men went to Watford via train. (28:10) He recalls being able to see the castles while in England. (28:51) On October 10th 1944, the company was sent from England to Omaha Beach. (29:45) There was a dock. The men claimed down a rope later into an LST. He recalls a Colonel broke his ankle trying to make it form the boat to the landing crafts. (30:40) The beach looked burned out and ravaged. (31:30) Service in Europe (31:32)               The men were then sent via train to Carentan, France. (31:37) Because troop shipments had very low priority, any trip by train the men took was always very long. (32:03) There were 42 men in a 40 man box car. Most had to lay on their own duffle bags. (32:14) To solve space issues, Forrest took telephone wire and made himself a hammock. He was the first soldier to do this. (32:46) The men then stopped at Nancy, France. He stayed there for 30 days. (33:24) He only had 15 men in his company [platoon?] at this time. (34:25) While in Nancy, a fellow soldiered captured several patrolling Germans. (35:30) The men gave the Germans their C-rations. They said they hadn’t eaten in 3 days. (37:00) Though the Germans were on the opposite side of the Moselle River, the men were never fired upon. (37:38) The men found cattle on a farm and took it to eat. (39:34) The men were then loaded on to trucks and sent up to Metz. (41:30) He wasn’t put on a 50. Cal. Machine gun for approx. 8-10 days. (42:07) In a battle on a bridge, 15 men were wounded and 15 where killed. (43:00) His captain was wounded twice. The first time he was sent to a Paris hospital. (46:04) �Action at Amanvillers. (46:30)       He had to take the town of Amanvillers after the 5th Division had taken and then lost it. (46:53) The company came under sniper fire. The men took cover and Forrest ran into a building and out the back. While on the back side of the building he took fire by a sniper. (47:48) As the company continued to advance up the street he was hit with either a mortar or an 88. This hit shattered his riffle and sent wood shrapnel from the stock into his foot. (49:05) A piece of the shrapnel from his rifle was taken out in 2003. (49:23) After being wounded, the men were unable to get a stretcher to Forrest’s position. He had to be carried back about 1000 yards before being taken to CP. He was then taken via jeep to a hospital in Reims. (49:50) 2 of his friends in his company also were wounded badly by artillery. (51:53) Service after Wound (52:00)                Forrest was then taken to the U.K. on a medical ship. (52:50) The ship had very luxurious accommodations when compared to field conditions. (53:42) He was then taken to Manchester, England where he was placed in an American hospital. (53:56) His foot was infected with maggots after it was wounded but he got much of them out when being operated on in Paris. (56:04) The wound stunk just like the dead bodies he saw in the field. (57:10) The cast was removed from his foot in Manchester. (57:41) Over all he had approx. 4 casts placed on his foot. (58:20) While voyaging to Boston Harbor the medical ship spotted a submarine. Depth charges were dropped as a defense. (58:27) He landed at Pier 6 in Boston Harbor (approx January 28th 1945) (1:00:14) He was then taken to Stockton, Massachusetts for approx 1 week then he was sent to Gardner General Hospital outside of Chicago. (1:00:26) 8 days after Forrest was wounded his company was in combat that resulted in 30 casualties. (1:00:56) General Patton once visited his company and others to give “pep talks” Patton swore a lot during his speech. (1:02:02) He was discharged on December 15th 1944. However he was still being operated on till almost March of 1945. (1:04:23) During his operations, doctors concluded that Forrest had osteomyelitis, or, infection of the bone. (1:05:15) He still has shrapnel from his rifle and from the artillery shell still in his body. (1:07:23) Life after service (1:07:55)   He held 3-4 jobs after his service including time in a brass factory. He could not stand on his feet for long period while working. (1:08:00) He then worked at GM for approx. 30 years. (1:08:34) Final Thoughts on Service (1:09:00) �        He likes telling his story. (1:09:50) He never tried to deliberately kill a German soldier, only wound them. This idea as fostered by the belief that it takes 4 men to care for a wounded one and only one to bury a dead one. (1:10:14) He recalls carrying ammunition for the BAR man at time so that he could lay down fire more easily. (1:12:34) Forrest has a Nazi Flag souvenir that was signed by all the men in his company. (1:14:56) The flag was taken down in Hamm, Germany. (1:16:24) The flag was given to him at a reunion by the flag's owner. (1:18:30) The Flag came from an S.S. building. (1:20:07) His service got him in a book General George Patton and his lower level troops. (1:24:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonF1334V Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Forrest (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Forrest Description An account of the resource Forrest Johnson, born in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Johnson served in the U.S. Army during World War II. After Pearl Harbor, he tried to join the Army Air Corps and the Marine Corps, but both rejected him due to colorblindness. The Army drafted him in 1943. He was eventually sent to Fort Sam Houston, Texas, to join the 378th Regiment, 95th Division, and went with them to train in the California desert before shipping to England in August, 1944. In October, they went to France and joined the 3rd Army at Nancy. Johnson participated in several battles near Metz, and was wounded at Amanvillers in November. The wound ended his military career early, sending him to hospitals in France, England and the US, and he was discharged in early 1945. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-01-10 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a8ab383d4f0f74caf94e90724cb56742.mp4 76ff939cdb55fdc1eef6ca6da7627323 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7a54ee49be5edacd9f9618755540c0cc.pdf 3b54ce923883daa841b9f0d82eddf483 PDF Text Text GrandValleyStateUniversity Veterans History Project Fay Johnson () Background Information ()                    He was born in LowellMichigan in (approx. 1925). He had one older brother. (00:49) He was in the Martin School District, but he was so far away from Martin schools that his tuition was sent t East Grand Rapids. (2:21:00) Due to overcrowding in East Grand Rapids, Fay had to be sent to yet another school district. (3:00) Fay finished school up to the 11th grade at East Grand Rapids Michigan. (3:30) His least favorite class was Latin. (4:15) Fay regularly hitchhiked to get to school. (4:34) Fay did not enjoy going to EastGrand RapidsHigh School but his mother insisted he attend it because it was seen as the most elite Grand Rapids school. (5:35) Fay transferred to Lowell High School in 1942. (6:14) During Fay’s first day in Lowell, the seniors were on strike during count day. (6:40) Mostly Fay road the bus, occasionally Fay and his brother would drive the car. (7:44) Fay had an older brother named Bill Johnson. (9:25) He served on student council. He did not play any sports because if he had he had no way to get home when practices were completed. (10:11) He met his future wife while in high school. (12:00) Fay’s father was a mechanic. He like building things but had trouble focusing on a single project until completion. (13:22) His mother was a housewife. (14:11) While a child, Fay was in the Boy Scouts and would go camping often. Fay worked as a caddy at a golf course when older. He made 75 cents an hour. (15:30) Fay also worked on a celery farm when he was young. (16:01) Fay and his family also ran a small family farm that often raised 1 crop. (18:04) Because there was no deferment offered as a result of working at a golf course, the employees there were often only old men and teenagers. (19:04) Junior College (20:28)    Fay was taking a lot of science classes, however he found it had to seriously pursue an education because he knew of his unavoidable possibility of being drafted. After 2 months of college Fay enlisted in the U.S. Navy in November of 1943. (20:34) Not only did everyone already want to get involved in the war, but also if Fay enlisted he was allowed to choose his own branch. (21:19) After enlisting, Fay was sent by train to Detroit. Here the men were given a physical. (22:22) Basic Training (23:12)  In November of 1943 Fay was sent by train to boot camp in Idaho. The trip took approx 2-3 days. (23:19) �         Fay’s highest rank was Fire Control 2nd class. (23:57) The men first had to take their clothes and ship them back home when they arrived at boot camp. The men were then issued military uniforms. (24:56) The barracks was a great big 2 story building that housed 140 men. (25:35) The men were issued dress blues and undressed blues, some jeans and a jean shirt, socks, underwear, shirts, and 2 pairs of shoes. (26:00) The men had to fit all of their clothes into a sea bag. (26:47) At night, it was not uncommon to hear men cry because they were homesick. Other men were happy to be in the Navy because it was the first time they had ever had 3 meals a day. (27:39) In boot camp the men did close order drill with wooden rifles and learn to tie knots. (28:12) Men would occasionally have to do guard and patrol duty. (29:20) Fay was originally made a radio technician after completing his aptitude test. (30:54) Service School (31:34)          After given 15 days of leave Fay was sent to service school in downtown Chicago. This lasted 6 weeks. (31:34) Fay was sent to GulfportMississippi, via train for his next portion of training. The trip took 3 days. (32:26) Fay continued his education of mathematics and electronics in Mississippi. The training lasted 6 weeks. (33:42) After Fay had some difficulties with his training he was sent to Fire Control school. (34:00) Fay was then sent to Great Lakes Naval Base in Illinois for Fire Control school. (34:43) As a fire control man, Fay worked on many of the ship's guns. (35:50) In November of 1944 Fay was sent to Treasure Island in San FranciscoCalifornia, where he was assigned to a ship. (36:40) After about a week, Fay was assigned aboard the USS Terry, a destroyer. He was given the task of maintaining equipment and standing watch. (37:38) The men were given leave before being sent out overseas. (39:38) Voyage to the Pacific (40:30)       The ship stopped first in Pearl HarborHawaii. The men were allowed to leave the ship when not on watch. (40:38) If the men were allowed off the ship they most often had to be back on board by 6 PM. (42:07) Planes would tow targets for the fire control men to practice their anti aircraft fire. (42:40) When leaving Pearl Harbor the ship left in a convoy. (43:10) The men were preparing for the invasions of Iwo Jima and Saipan. (43:27) Fay did not meet very many civilians while in Saipan. Many had committed suicide of a cliff over fear of the U.S. soldiers killing and raping them. (44:13) Invasion of (February 1945) (45:33)     The men thought taking Iwo Jima would only take 10 days. (45:58) The landing zones were shelled heavily for 3 days before landing. (46:48) A picture of the ordnance department. All men were necessary on the maintenance and firing of the gun. (48:40) The insignia on each man’s arm signified their position and job. (50:00) �    When ships were not firing they were sent to the North end of the island on radar picket duty. (50:33) While on watch the men often played pinochle. (51:01) While on watch, the ship was attacked by a Japanese bomber. A torpedo was dropped but missed the ship. (52:09) The ship did have several holes punched in it by enemy fire while at Iwo Jima. Divers had to be sent under the ship to patch the holes. Later welders were implored to make more permanent repairs. (53:30) Repairs in the U.S. (55:17)      Fay and his ship were sent back to PearHarbor then back to San Francisco for repairs. (55:17) The Ship was in San Francisco for 2 months. Most of the men (including Fay) mere sent home via train (55:30) Before the ship left again the men had to restock the ship as well as implore target practice. (56:00) Because of a change in position that Fay was undergoing he was required to go to gunnery school. This lasted 3-4 weeks. (56:44) The ship did eventually ship out of San Diego. As the men returned to the Pacific they were placed in Task Force 58 off of Japan. (57:10) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonF1299V Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Fay (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Fay Description An account of the resource Fay Johnson, born in Lowell Michigan in 1925, served in the U.S. Navy from 1943 to 1945 in the Pacific during World War II. After completing his basic training, Fay was sent to specialty school where he eventually was made a fire controller. After training, Fay was placed aboard the destroyer USS Terry and sailed to Saipan and then took part in the invasion of Iwo Jima. The ship encountered some damage during the invasion and needed to be sent back to San Francisco for repairs, and returned to duty off the coast of Japan before the end of the war. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Blough, Nick (Interviewer) Blough, Ivan (Interviewer) Lowell Area Historical Museum (Lowell, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-11-16 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d4de345f4d2c65e89c7db0bdc8dcf05a.mp4 db1c9dd60ec87e58466dbcf4ccc0f085 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fa245d751082c5b91b0b108db61b9f1b.pdf baaa10d73c4500b89fbca2f3aaf901ca PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Fay Johnson (52:52) (00:35) Background Information • • • • Fay grew up in Grand Rapids, MI He went to East Grand Rapids Schools Fay graduated from Lowell High School in 1943 He enlisted in the Navy in November 1943 (03:55) Training • • • • • • • • • • Fay was sent to Idaho for boot camp Boot camp lasted 6 weeks He was sent to radio tech school in Chicago, IL for 6 weeks Fay then went to Gulfport, Mississippi for advanced radio school, but didn’t pass He went to Great Lakes Naval Training Center for fire control school In November 1944 he was assigned to the destroyer USS Terry Fay was a computer operator on a Mark 1 computer that would determine where to fire shells He thought the service schools were great From GLNTC he could go into Chicago or go home on the weekends Fire control was part of the ordinance company (10:32) USS Terry • • • • • • • • • • • Fay boarded the USS Terry in San Francisco They went to Iwo Jima Their objective was to fire at spots on the island when the marines gave them coordinates Sometimes while they were getting the coordinates they could hear Japanese in the background The USS Terry was there for 3-4 weeks and then was put on picket duty They were sent up to Japan to notify people of planes leaving Japan and to pick up any pilots that went down A Japanese plane dropped a bomb, but missed them On the way back to Iwo Jima they were hit by three shells from a small island and 11 people were killed They had to go back to San Francisco to get repaired A lot of things had to get replaced and it took 70 days Fay was able to go home on a 30 day leave in April 1945 while the ship was being fixed �(18:40) Victory in Japan • • • • • • • • • • • • They went to Japan to get ready for the invasion Their ship was assigned to escort an aircraft carrier to Japan Soldiers were being transferred from Europe to prepare for the invasion The atom bombs were dropped and the Japanese surrendered They were assigned to escort the USS Detroit to the surrendering ceremonies in Tokyo Harbor The soldiers could go to shore, but they had to carry a pistol Fay would barter with cigarettes He went to Tokyo and Yokohama They were then assigned to escort the mine sweepers There wasn’t much to do and they had to paint the ship a lot He still meets up with people from the USS Terry at reunions There were about 350 people stationed on the USS Terry and now there are only 25-30 left (33:04) Discharge • • • • • • • The ship was going to be decommissioned, so they were sent to San Pedro Harbor in Los Angeles, CA in April, 1946 Fay had enough points to go home He was discharged at GLNTC and went back to Grand Rapids Fay went back to college and joined the Navy reserves He worked at his father’s plating company at night It was all too much for him so he quit the Navy and college The Navy contacted him and said he was supposed to report to Detroit because his letter of resignation had not been accepted (36:45) Korean War • Fay was married and had a kid • He was sent to Chicago because he had polio and the Navy didn’t know what to do with him • They sent him to San Francisco with the Pacific Reserve Fleet • Fay sent in applications to get a discharge • He was transferred to the USS Chief in San Pedro • Fay got his papers approved and went home (44:44) After the Navy �• • • • Fay is now a member of the American Legion He learned to fly with the GI Bill Fay could get surplus equipment for his father’s company He feels that all veterans are equal � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonF Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Fay (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Fay Description An account of the resource Fay Johnson was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan and graduated from Lowell High School. After high school he joined the Navy and first trained as a radio tech and then a fire controller. He was assigned to the USS Terry and boarded it in November 1944. They went to Iwo Jima and their mission was to fire at targets on the island given to them by the marines. They were at Iwo Jima for 3-4 weeks and then went on picket duty between Japan and Iwo Jima. On their way back to Iwo Jima they were hit three times and had to go to San Francisco to get repaired. After they were repaired they were getting ready for the Japanese invasion, but the war ended. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Moore, Debra (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-08-25 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f900bff396272523b0e0d4f66483ab5f.mp4 0c064cb5f280b0a974f46640246279a3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/248fa884eb6d9bcd5b312a24ef53ba80.pdf 74c57e6578a3a128c864e9f164f7fe12 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of Interviewee: Al Johnson Name of War: World War II Length of Interview: (01:17:23) Childhood and Pre-Enlistment (0:00:00)       Born in Columbus, OH in 1923. Father was in the Army and worked as an ROTC instructor. Moved around and ended up in Grand Rapids, MI. His brother was drafted in 1942 and became an Army Engineer. Graduated high school in 1942 and worked in a factory in Muskegon, MI making gaskets. Was drafted into the army. Training (0:04:40)          Reported to Fort Custer, MI and was shipped to Abilene, TX for basic training. (0:05:08) After basic training, when to the Army Hospital in San Antonio, TX and trained to be a scrub nurse. He was there for 3 months. (0:06:26) Was shipped to a holding camp in Denver, CO, where he found out about OSS and signed up. He was there for 2-3 months. (0:08:40) he was shipped to the Congressional Country Club in Washington, DC where he took basic OSS training. (0:10:35) He was trained with a group of French-Canadians, as he spoke some French. (0:12:05) He spent 4-5 months training. He was able to get off of base quite a bit during training. (0:14:30) He was given training in weapons near present day Camp David, MD. (0:16:30) His unit was trained in guerilla warfare, primarily to work with the French Underground. Active Duty (0:17:10)      He was shipped across the Atlantic to North Africa in a convoy. He was on a Liberty Ship. There was quite a bit of seasickness on the crossing. (0:20:10) Landed in Casablanca, Morocco where they were put in boxcars and shipped to Algiers, Algeria. (0:21:30) In Algiers, they took further parachute training. (0:24:40) After Algeria, they were taken Brockhall Manor in England, where they took more parachute training. Uniquely, they learned to jump from balloons. �                 (0:26:10) In August, 1944 he was sent to France with 15 other men. His mission there was to take a hydroelectric dam that was crucial to the allied invasion of Southern France. (0:29:50) He was taken over France in a B-24 that was specially fitted for their operation. He was supposed to jump at 1000 ft but had to jump at 500 ft because of pilot error. They were met on the ground by French resistance fighters who took them to various locations in the area. They were moved at night. (0:36:30) They took the dam without firing a shot. There were Germans at the dam when they arrived but they withdrew before the ultimatum that was given to them. (0:39:55) At one point, he ambushed a group of SS, and got lost after the battle. However, he was eventually found by his own group. (0:43:30) His unit eventually captured an airfield and got picked up by a C-47 Cargo plane. (0:44:50) He was taken back to England by the end of September 1944. (0:45:35) At this point, he was given the option of either joining the regular Army or being shipped to China, so his whole unit chose to be shipped to China. (0:46:10) Before they were shipped to China, they were given a 30 day furlough in the US. (0:46:40) After the furlough, they were shipped to San Diego and boarded a ship which took them to Mumbai, India. The ship that they crossed on was a former passenger liner which held around 5000 men. The journey took them around 30 days. (0:49:38) Once he got to India, he boarded a train to Calcutta. He vividly remembers the poverty he saw while on the train. (0:50:44) He then drove the Burma road to China. He drove Jeep which was pulling a small howitzer. They moved at a rate of 100 miles per day for 7 days. (0:54:00) He crossed a small, one lane bridge from Burma into China. (0:54:45) He was stationed on the outskirts of the city of Kunming, China. They were housed in a compound just north of the city, where they trained Chinese soldiers in parachuting and combat. (0:57:50) He was given the assignment to keep the Japanese from taking Chinese rice. They actively fought the Japanese and had two of their men wounded. (1:01:10) He found out that the war had ended by radio. However, he had to stay in China an extra 30 days, because of the civil war that was breaking out. (1:02:30) He got to the city of Hanyang, where he worked for a while in medicine in the area. He also worked providing medical care for the Chinese Nationalist Army. (1:10:20) After 30 days, they were flown to Calcutta and taken by boat back to the US. Post-War (1:11:47)  He attended Grand Rapids Junior College after the war, and worked in a factory and as an office manager. �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonE Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Ellsworth (Al) (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Ellsworth Description An account of the resource Al Johnson was born in Columbus, Ohio, and served in the OSS during World War II. He was drafted into the Army after high school, and was selected for OSS after basic training. He was sent to England, and then parachuted into France where his unit helped the French resistance secure a dam. He was then shipped to China where he helped train the Chinese Army to fight the Japanese. After the war, he stayed in China for 30 days to help the Nationalist Army, and was then shipped home. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-15 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b49983a4c959c59b64d270c102cb9f9d.mp4 d3511e9b25c5f9389a12697bd8b18765 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/85341148876e3e871f153489f3f0cdea.pdf 2d9f7123758f237e3e31567c9c9be20d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Edward Johnson 1 World War II Interview Length: (02:02:22:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:18:00)  Johnson was born in Greenville, Michigan on May 25th, 1919 (00:00:18:00)  When Johnson was born, his mother worked as a secretary and his father worked as a carpenter; however, before the Great Depression, his family purchased an eighty-acre farm outside of Greenville (00:00:27:00) o Because he did not have any siblings while growing up, Johnson spent a lot of time playing with his dog (00:01:07:00) o For the main cash crop of the farm, Johnson’s family grew potatoes, as well as oats and wheat (00:01:28:00) o Johnson’s family managed to keep the farm, although it was by the very skinniest of margins; without help from President Roosevelt’s policy, the family was close to losing the farm towards the end of the Depression because they were unable to make the necessary interest payments (00:01:41:00)  Growing up, Johnson attended a one-room schoolhouse, where there were nine grades and only a single teacher (00:02:14:00) o Johnson had to walk to the schoolhouse but he thought nothing of it because it was something he had to do (00:02:24:00) o After Johnson finished eighth grade, an arrangement was made whereby he would go live with his grandparents to attend high school (00:02:57:00)  Johnson graduated from high school in 1938, after which he found a job working for a potato business; immediately after he started high school, Johnson was placed in a program to educate him on being a farmer (00:03:18:00) o The business where Johnson worked was very large, at one point the largest in Michigan (00:03:51:00) o Eventually, Johnson briefly held another job before joining the Wolverine Shoe and Tanning Company (00:04:01:00)  Because Johnson played a lot of baseball and Wolverine had a good baseball team, Johnson suspects the company was looking to hire a baseball player when he got the job (00:04:08:00)  When Johnson told his father that Wolverine had offered him a job, his father told him to take it (00:04:29:00)  Johnson was drafted into the military on June 4th, 1941 (00:05:01:00) o After being drafted, Johnson first reported to Fort Custer in Kalamazoo [Battle Creek], Michigan; although the fort had a lot of buildings when Johnson arrived, it was still not too impressive for him (00:05:23:00) o Johnson was only at Fort Custer for processing and after which, he was sent to Camp Boyd, Texas, located about an hour outside of Fort Worth (00:05:56:00)  Johnson rode a train from Michigan to Texas and although he had never been on that long of a train ride before, he does not remember too much �about the trip, apart from being impressed with the number of men who were riding in the train with him (00:06:16:00) o When Johnson arrived in Texas, he was given a choice of what he would like to be trained for and he signed up to be a mechanic (00:06:52:00) o Before going through the mechanic school, Johnson went through the traditional basic training, with all the marching and physical training usually associated with that (00:07:07:00)  The marching and physical training was not a problem for Johnson, who, having grown up on a farm, knew how to work and do physicallydemanding jobs (00:07:22:00)  Discipline was part of the normal procedure and Johnson did not have a problem with it; there were some men who had problems with one thing or another but the discipline helped straighten them out (00:07:44:00)  For example, one man had a habit of chewing tobacco and after being warned three times to stop, was ordered to report to the sergeant, where he was forced to dig a hole 8’x8’x6’ and bury the chewing tobacco in the middle of the hole (00:08:06:00) o Later, the man told Johnson that originally, he had not placed the tobacco in the middle of the hole, so he had to go back down, place the tobacco exactly in the middle of the hole before filling the hole back in (00:08:31:00)  Another man like to sing during the long marches and although the other men liked it, their first sergeant did not, so he ordered the man to shut up; the man did but a couple of minutes later, was singing again (00:08:47:00) o The exchange between the sergeant and the singer happened three times and after the third time, the sergeant said that when they returned to the barracks, he and the singer were going to sort out the problem (00:09:14:00)  Although the other men wanted to watch the exchange between the two men, they were not allowed to (00:09:33:00) o Eventually, the singer came back looking not too worse for wear and the sergeant came back beat to a pulp; the only thing the sergeant said was that both men had learned their lesson (00:09:38:00) o During his mechanics training, Johnson’s group included another man from Greenville who was already a full-fledged mechanic and just under the upper age limit for someone to be drafted (00:10:22:00)  The training started with the men learning the different parts of the engine and while the others learned, the old mechanic would be in the back on the room sleeping because he knew it all already (00:10:51:00)  The mechanic was called to the front of the room and told to explain everything that the instructor had been teaching the other men; without missing a beat, the mechanic drew a perfect generator on the blackboard and labeled all its parts (00:11:10:00) �    In the end, the majority of Johnson’s training ended up coming from the mechanic after the men had finished with their normal training for the day or hour (00:11:35:00)  The men were training to work with ¾-ton Dodge, six-cylinder truck engines (00:11:48:00) o Overall, the mechanic’s training was good and after Johnson and the other men finished, they were transferred to the 36th Infantry Division (00:12:13:00)  One of the men who went through the mechanics training with Johnson was assigned to be a carburetion specialist and when Johnson pointed out that there were already mechanics in the division and they would probably not get to work, the other man suggested the two transfer out of the division (00:12:32:00) The two men transferred out of the 36th Infantry and joined the 1st Infantry Division stationed at Fort Indiantown Gap in Pennsylvania, which was the staging area for the entire division (00:13:01:00) o When Johnson and the other man joined the 1st Infantry, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor had yet to happen (00:13:17:00)  When the attack did happen, Johnson was sitting in a tent with twelve other men; after hearing about the attack, the men started packing because they thought they would be shipped out the next day (00:13:26:00)  At the time, the men were training with wooden guns; there was talk that the country might go to war and the men were still marching around with wooden guns (00:13:43:00) While Johnson was in Texas, he and the other men trained in desert combat and one time, while on an extended exercise, there was a snake in the path Johnson was taking, so he had to go into the section of the soldier next to him (00:14:01:00) o There were so many snake bites in the unit that the base hospital was constantly full; eventually, all the men were called in to learn how to properly treat snake bites (00:14:52:00) When the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor happened, Johnson remembers wondering how he was going to fight with a wooden gun (00:15:38:00) Deployment to Europe / North Africa (00:16:06:00)  When Johnson and the other soldier joined the 1st Infantry at Indiantown Gap, the division was already getting ready to deploy and when the two men arrived, they were greeted by a pair of majors (00:16:06:00) o Both majors were friendly and they took the two men to the headquarters company of 1st Battalion, 16th Infantry Regiment, where the two were then handed off to the sergeant they would be working under (00:16:41:00)  When he was a civilian, the sergeant Johnson and the other man were assigned to had worked as a foreman for a power company, so he had the leadership qualities already built in (00:17:11:00)  The sergeant want to know what Johnson and the other soldier’s backgrounds were because their paperwork had not come through yet and when they said they were mechanics, he took them down to the company motor pool (00:17:28:00) �  Joining the regiment was not a problem because the sergeant made sure Johnson and the other man were comfortable; when Johnson joined the 36th Infantry, he was a Northerner being sent to a division made up of primarily Southerners (00:17:49:00) o A lot of the men who were in the 1st Infantry when Johnson arrived were old-time Army and had been together a long time (00:18:31:00) o When Johnson and the other man arrived, the division was getting ready to deploy to Europe, so Johnson and the other man were immediately given a large amount of semi-secret information (00:18:43:00) o One night, Johnson received orders that the division would be moving and that night, the division moved to New York, where the men boarded the Queen Mary luxury ocean-liner (00:18:54:00)  After the men were aboard the ship, supplies continued to be loaded for several days and at one point, Johnson remembers looking out the port hole, seeing all the supplies being loaded, and thinking that the ship was not going to be able to make the voyage (00:19:15:00)  The men were eventually briefed about what they needed to do while aboard the ship and the only major problem they faced was the possibility of a fire (00:19:39:00)  Johnson pointed out to the carburetion specialist that they did not mention anything about submarines (00:19:49:00)  Once aboard, the men were given life vests and packed into an area four or five men deep (00:20:05:00)  Four-and-a-half days after they boarded, the men were told it would be a 4,000 mile voyage and after the ship sailed out of New York and crossed the Atlantic, ended up in Scotland (00:20:15:00)  The weather during the journey was good (00:20:54:00) When the ship arrived in Scotland, Scottish bagpipers were there to greet the soldiers as they unloaded (00:21:14:00) o As they unloaded, the men were a little upset because they had not yet been fed that day; however, as the men were taken to a waiting train, some of the local Scots gave them home-made pot pies (00:21:39:00)  Once the men were settled aboard the train, they could eat the pies, which were individually wrapped in four pieces of newspaper and were enough for a full meal (00:21:52:00)  As the train left Scotland, it had special orders and went flying through the Scottish and English countryside (00:22:11:00) o The train eventually took the men to Tidworth Barracks, which were built on the Salisbury Plain and were primarily home to a British cavalry unit (00:22:27:00)  As the men were settling in, a German Me-109 fighter came in low and attack the barracks (00:22:47:00)  During the first night, the men turned on the radio and heard Axis Sally welcome the 1st Infantry Division to England; the men had tried hard to keep their movements hidden but to no avail (00:23:15:00) o Johnson was eventually given the assignment of driving one of the jeeps and taking care of the jeep for a major (00:23:34:00) �  The first time Johnson drove for the major was to Scotland when he drove the major to a meeting planning an invasion of Africa; however, Johnson did not know the meeting was about this (00:23:51:00)  The meeting was sixty miles away and when Johnson picked up the major, he said they had to make it there in forty-five minutes; although Johnson said it could not be done, a sergeant told him to do it anyway, so Johnson calculated the speed he would need to go in order to make the meeting on time (00:24:06:00)  All the roads in Scotland were narrow and all the bridges were hump-backed, so going top speed would often cause the jeeps to fly into the air (00:24:27:00)  Nevertheless, Johnson managed to get to the meeting on time; when the arrived, the major told Johnson that he had been through war but he had never had a ride quite like that (00:25:07:00) o Johnson spent three or four months in England before the 1st Infantry shipped out again (00:25:52:00)  While in England, Johnson visited Stonehenge, although the information explained to him did not sink in while he was there; looking back, it was a nice trip and Johnson should have enjoyed it but at the time, all he and the other soldiers saw were a bunch of rocks (00:26:35:00)  Other than Stonehenge, Johnson and the other men were not allowed to leave their barracks (00:26:59:00) o Before the division left England, Johnson and the other drivers received training in how to properly care for their vehicles (00:27:12:00) After the men finished testing their vehicles and finished the training, they and their vehicles were loaded back aboard ships, which then left England (00:27:54:00) o Once they had left England, Johnson figures the ships must have sailed nearly halfway back to the United States to join another convoy of ships also headed to North Africa (00:28:02:00) o When the ships from England joined the other convoy, the combined convoy ran into a large storm; although most of the crew aboard the ship got sick, Johnson himself did not (00:28:16:00)  At one point during the storm, Johnson was laying on the deck when the captain of the ship called him over to talk; as the two talked, the captain complained how all his crew, who were supposed to be helping the soldiers, were sick themselves (00:28:39:00)  During the storm, the captain and first mate had to work together turning the engine on and off because whenever the ship pitched high enough, the propeller came out of the water and needed to be turned off before going back into the water (00:29:40:00) o It seemed like the ships were at sea for about ten days before they meet up with the other group, after which both groups headed for their destination, although none of the soldiers knew where that was (00:30:37:00)  Once the ships were about halfway to their destination, the commanders finally told the soldiers where they were going (00:30:51:00) �  o During the voyage, the men kept thinking about the possibility of an enemy submarine attack (00:30:58:00) o Eventually, the ships sailed through the Straits of Gibraltar and Johnson noticed lights on the Moroccan side of the straits; to Johnson, it seemed crazy to see lights on during the middle of a war (00:31:05:00) o After the ships had sailed through the straits, the men were told exactly where the landings were going to be attempted (00:31:18:00) During the landing, Johnson’s jeep was the first to go into the water and as he pulled onto the beach, he was told to turn the jeep sideways; as Johnson turned the jeep, someone shot at him for the first time (00:31:26:00) o Johnson looked up and saw that it was a soldier in the French Foreign Legion who had shot at him (00:32:01:00) o Once all the other soldiers had landed, Johnson’s unit was sent to Taforaoui airport, which was fifty to six miles inland from the beach (00:32:18:00)  B-17 bombers were landing at the airport and the soldiers were told to form a perimeter around the airport because the commanders thought the Germans might drop in some paratroopers (00:32:48:00)  The soldiers stayed at Taforaoui for an extended period of time, between fifteen and twenty days (00:33:06:00)  The men set up tents at the airport but whenever a bomber would fly in, the tents would be blown over; it upset the soldiers because they had to keep building their tents (00:33:39:00) o Although there was a lot of fighting in the nearby city of Oran, Johnson’s unit never became involved in it (00:33:58:00) o Johnson and the other soldiers spent several days hanging around the airport before their unit finally moved into a series of different positions (00:34:12:00)  Johnson himself was constantly driving because his major was being sent all over the place (00:34:42:00) o The roads closer to the beach, where everyone lived, were okay; however, for the most part, the soldiers were operating further into the desert and the roads there amounted to little more than trails (00:35:04:00)  Operating in the desert was un-pleasant, thanks to high heat, sand storms, and local insects (00:35:17:00) Although the bulk of the 1st Infantry was hit at the Battle of Kasserine Pass, Johnson’s regiment did not; the regiment did fight in the American counter-attack after the battle was over (00:35:34:00) o After the counter-attack, a sergeant came in and said he had a job for Johnson; when Johnson asked what the job was, the sergeant asked if Johnson knew anything about German half-tracks (00:35:58:00)  Johnson said he knew a little bit about the German engine, so the two men went into a valley, where there was a German half-track sitting in a gully that the retreating Germans had left behind (00:36:11:00)  Four or five other soldiers went with Johnson and the sergeant to look over the half-track for any booby-traps and after everything was taken care of, Johnson crawled inside (00:36:25:00) � Once inside, Johnson hit the start button and the half-track’s engine started immediately; Johnson then shifted the half-track into reverse and back it out of the gully (00:36:45:00)  As Johnson backed the half-track out, the sergeant was smiling and he kept say, “it works” (00:36:57:00)  In order to drive the half-track, Johnson had to lay on his stomach and look through a periscope (00:37:06:00) o Whenever his regiment was actually involved in any fighting, Johnson’s job was to drive around the major to wherever he needed to go; Johnson was not expected to take a rifle and go fight in a foxhole unless he was called upon (00:37:37:00)  Johnson and the other men in the battalion headquarters were capable of fighting in the foxholes but their jobs were to drive (00:37:52:00)  For the most part, Johnson and the other men did portion of their work at night; Johnson even received special training on how to drive at night (00:38:02:00)  However, Johnson was often blind during the day from having driven at night (00:38:16:00)  Johnson also did work during the day, such as driving around an observer who was looking for targets for artillery units to attack (00:38:24:00)  At one point, a sergeant came up to Johnson and introduced an artillery observer from the division who wanted someone to drive him into a valley (00:38:41:00) o As Johnson and the observer got into the jeep, the observer said he had a few instructions for Johnson; if the observer yelled “go”, Johnson was supposed to jump out and not worry about what happened to the jeep (00:38:57:00)  Johnson started driving up the valley and all of a sudden, he heard the observer say “go”; Johnson jumped out of one side of the jeep as the observe jumped out of the other side (00:39:19:00)  After he had jumped out, Johnson looked up and saw a flight of six German Me-109s overhead; one of the fighters peeled off, looked around, and returned to the group (00:39:49:00)  As Johnson and the observer got the jeep, Johnson asked the observer how he had managed to spot the fighters because Johnson had been looking for enemy fighters as well (00:40:01:00) o The observer explained that on the horizon, there would always be a spot indicating that the fighters would be coming (00:40:35:00)  Apart from Kasserine Pass, the only other time Johnson was relatively close to the fighting in North Africa was at Latourine (00:41:15:00)  At Latourine, someone made a mistake and the unit’s commander was captured by the Germans (00:41:42:00) o When the other unit was captured, Johnson was only seventy-five or one-hundred yards away with the commander’s equipment in his jeep (00:41:49:00) �  o Johnson returned to the remainder of his unit, organized the commander’s equipment and waited with the others for any news about what happened (00:42:12:00)  About twenty days later, the men received orders to pick up the commander and some other soldiers who the Germans had previously taken prisoner; all the German ships in the harbor had been sunk and there was no way for the Germans to get the POWs back to Europe (00:42:20:00)  The first time Johnson’s unit moved through the valley, they were constantly setting up defensive positions (00:43:28:00)  At one point, Johnson went to the top of a mountain where an American unit was positioned; Johnson knew officers in the other unit from being a driver, which was why he was allowed onto the summit (00:43:31:00)  From the top of the mountain, Johnson watched as individual American tanks advanced up the valley, only to be quickly knocked out by German fire (00:43:42:00) o When Johnson asked what was happening, an nearby officer explained that a German 88mm gun further up the valley and the American tanks could not stand up to the gun’s firepower (00:43:56:00)  The next day, there was a new group of tanks that began advancing into the valley and the same thing happened again (00:44:07:00) At different times, German soldiers went through the American lines, advanced four or five miles into the American rear area, placed notes on the American communications, and retreated back without being caught (00:44:25:00) o Everything time this happened, Johnson would think about how poorly trained he and the other American soldiers were, to let the Germans through their lines without doing anything (00:44:42:00) o However, as the fighting continued, Johnson and the other soldiers slowly learned what they needed to, such as where to hide, what to look for, etc. (00:44:54:00)  At one point, Johnson’s unit was on the backside of a hill that they had already attacked and been repealed from three times; as the men were looking for spots to dig in, Johnson saw a black line running down the side of the hill (00:45:06:00)  Johnson yelled for the others to stop and for a sergeant to come over; the sergeant came over and after Johnson pointed to the line, the sergeant called someone from headquarters (00:45:29:00)  Someone else eventually came up, hooked another line to the black line and all the soldiers back away; some pulled the line and there was a massive explosion, caused by a series of mines hooked to the original line (00:45:58:00) o At the onset of the fighting, there was so much that the soldiers did not know how to do; nevertheless, they caught on pretty fast as to what things needed to be done (00:46:21:00) During the fighting, the Americans did not have any air support because the German fighters maintained air superiority (00:46:33:00) �     o One day, a German Ju-88 dive-bomber flew over the American position with a 500-lbs bomb but was hit in the left engine (00:46:46:00)  The bombers pilot rolled the plane over and dropped the bomb, which headed towards where Johnson was; however, at the last moment, the bomb veered to the side and ended up hitting the area where the unit’s medics and ambulance were stationed (00:47:01:00) On the whole, Johnson and the other soldier’s experiences in North Africa were not very good (00:47:42:00) o However, towards the end of the campaign, Johnson’s unit managed to capture over 50,000 German soldiers; when the soldiers surrendered, all 50,000 were located on a single hillside (00:47:45:00) After the campaign was over, Johnson’s unit moved back to Oran, where the men were issued new uniforms; because the soldiers never had time to clean themselves, Johnson figures by then, the uniforms were about ready to rot off the soldiers (00:48:04:00) o During the campaign, apart from not being able to clean themselves, the men’s health was relatively good (00:48:27:00) o Johnson remembers sending a letter home asking for a red bandana to tie over his forehead; without the bandana, within hours, his forehead was like mud from the combination of sweat and sandstorms (00:48:35:00)  One day, the men were caught in a sandstorm and although it was a clear day, once the storm started, it was like night; the men could not even tell if someone was standing beside them (00:48:56:00) At one point during the campaign, a half-track was brought to the unit and Johnson, being a mechanic, was given the job of driving it (00:49:13:00) o Apart from driving the half-track, during the sandstorms, it was a job in and of itself keeping the bogies of the half-track free of sand and able to operate at all times (00:49:25:00) o Along with carrying soldiers, Johnson also used his half-track to carry around mines and booby-traps, as well as shovels and anything else the soldiers needed to dig in with (00:49:56:00) o The half-track was driven using a large steering wheel and whenever he drove, Johnson had to make sure his thumbs were not gripping the steering wheel; if the steering wheel started to spin and his thumbs were gripping the wheel, then they could be broken easily (00:50:20:00)  Driving the half-track was difficult because the machine was clunky and Johnson always needed to apply a certain amount of pressure to do anything (00:50:31:00) Once back in Oran, Johnson and some of the other men went for a drink and there were girls from the United States in the bar where they went (00:51:18:00) o The men immediately wanted to talk with the girls because they had not heard anything from home except for letters (00:51:28:00) o The first thing the girl told Johnson when he tried to talk with her was that he stunk (00:51:37:00) The Bedouin tribesmen that the men would encounter would often steal different things from them; the tribesmen would beg, borrow, and steal to get what they needed from the soldiers (00:52:13:00) �o At one point, Johnson’s unit was setting up a defensive position in the Atlas Mountains and as the men worked, they planned on teaching the local population how to use the modern weapons (00:52:31:00)  Although the locals did have firearms, when they came to talk with the soldiers, one rifle only had one round left and another only had three rounds left (00:53:21:00)  The soldiers taught the locals exactly what they had been taught during training, but the locals did not care so much about that (00:53:35:00)  After the training, the soldiers took the locals on a hill to see how they could shoot and from the three-hundred yards away, each local hit a rock a foot-and-a-half across several times (00:53:52:00) o Another time, the men were told to work with a different group of people named Goumers [Goums], who liked using knifes in combat (00:54:08:00)  The tribesmen had no problem laying in the desert for an entire day to bring back information; although the soldiers were told where the tribesmen would be stationed, they could not find them (00:54:24:00)  Following one of the tribesmen’s missions, Johnson and the other soldiers, who at the time were having trouble keeping enough water around to drink, were sent to work with them (00:54:52:00)  As Johnson was working with one of the tribesmen, someone grabbed his canteen, which was a no-no; Johnson had a gun in his hand so he swung around to see who it was (00:55:04:00) o As Johnson swung around, a French officer who was translating between the tribesmen and the soldiers waved for him to stop (00:55:18:00)  Johnson continued working and eventually, the person who had taken his canteen brought it back; however, when he took a drink from the canteen, he found that the person had filled the canteen with wine (00:55:31:00) o The wine quenched the soldiers’ thirst; instead of taking a drink once every ten minutes, they were taking a drink once every hour (00:55:56:00) o At one point, while still in the Atlas Mountains, Johnson was given a jeep to go pick up a major (00:56:25:00)  Once Johnson picked up the major, they drove over forty miles into noman’s-land (00:56:41:00)  Before leaving, the major had the jeep specially out-fitted for the mission, so there were extra hand grenades and a machine guns, as well as both men’s rifles (00:56:52:00)  As the jeep started up a hillside, the major told him to stop; Johnson did and the two men started walk towards the top of the hill (00:57:04:00)  As they continued up the hillside, the two men ran into an alcove with running water, where the major said that both he and Johnson were going to take a bath (00:57:12:00) �  After crawling into the alcove, Johnson and the major stripped down, and lowered themselves into separate holes, to the point the water came up to their necks (00:57:36:00) Johnson and the major only stayed in the holes for three minutes before climbing out and as they crawled out of the alcove, Johnson noticed black spots running through the water; when Johnson asked what the spots were, the major said they were lice and explained that the whole area used the alcove to clean themselves (00:58:24:00) Invasion of Sicily / England (00:59:43:00)  As the men stayed in Oran, the 1st Infantry was a whole was getting ready for another invasion (00:59:43:00) o However, unlike the invasion of North Africa, the commanders told the men where they would be invading (00:59:48:00) o Eventually, the men were loaded onto boats, sailed across the Mediterranean Sea and landed at Gela, Sicily; during the landing, Johnson was the first soldier to go ashore in Gela (00:59:53:00)  During the landing, Johnson was driving a jeep for a couple of officers, although he does not remember who the officers were (01:00:16:00) o After he landed, Johnson went up to an abandoned enemy shore battery, whose nameplate read “Fisher”, which indicated that the battery had been built in the United States (01:00:26:00) o After all the troops had landed, they began to move in-land and ran into a fiveacre watermelon patch; there was not a watermelon left in the patch by the time the soldiers finished moving through it (01:00:48:00)  Eventually, headquarters company had set up about three or four miles in-land from the beach and at one point, a soldier came up and requested permission from the company commander to go get some of his relatives, who lived on a nearby hill; the commander said okay, which caught Johnson off-guard (01:01:25:00)  Rumors were constantly passing between the soldiers that German paratroopers were going to eventually land at their position (01:02:10:00) o One night, the American ships began launching flares above Johnson’s position because there were paratroops in the air; however, Johnson was not sure the paratroopers were Germans (01:02:19:00) o One of the paratroopers landed in the company’s position, so Johnson advanced with his gun drawn towards the paratrooper, who turned out to be an American paratrooper, not a German (01:02:33:00) o Johnson helped the paratrooper out of his parachute and the paratrooper told Johnson to keep the parachute, which was made of silk, in his foxhole; Johnson kept the parachute and after the war, had a silk scarf made out of it (01:02:44:00)  As the soldiers continued moving in-land, they eventually became involved in a heavy firefight with the Germans (01:03:23:00) o Prior to the firefight, Johnson was called back and ordered to carry an important message from the company back to the beach (01:03:35:00) o When Johnson arrived at the beach, the first officer’s vehicle he saw belong to General Theodore Roosevelt Jr.; however, Gen. Roosevelt stopped Johnson �   before he could say anything, said that General George Patton was coming onto the beach, and Johnson was to give the message to him (01:03:50:00)  Although the orders did not enthuse Johnson, he reported to Gen. Patton that German tanks would be breaking through the American lines; although Johnson never saw any more of Patton, none of the books written about the early part of the Sicily invasion mention that Patton and the officers knew the German tanks were going to break through the American lines (01:04:14:00) o After making his report to Gen. Patton, Johnson returned to headquarters company and when he told the other men what had happened with Gen. Patton, all the other men laughed (01:05:38:00) Prior to the invasion, Johnson remembers hearing Gen. Patton apologize to Johnson’s division for slapping one of the soldiers in the division (01:06:42:00) o Most of the men did not care one way or another because the soldier the general had slapped ended up making the invasion anyway (01:06:57:00) While the division was in Africa, Gen. Roosevelt, who was the assistant division commander, would visit Johnson’s company with maps to inform the men about what the current situation was (01:07:37:00) o For the most part, the soldiers did not know anything, except that the enemy was out there somewhere (01:07:56:00) o Like Gen. Roosevelt, the 1st Infantry Division’s commander, General Terry Allen, was a “soldier’s general”; Gen. Allen was a fighting general and as far as he was concerned, the soldiers did not have to worry too much about spit and polish (01:08:20:00)  Nevertheless, Gen. Allen got the job done and the soldiers respected him for that (01:08:32:00) o The general who followed Gen. Allen as the division commander, General Clarence R. Huebner, did place more of an emphasis on the spit and polish aspect of the soldiers’ lives (01:08:38:00) Once the soldiers had successfully moved away from the beaches, they began moving into the mountains (01:09:06:00) o However, moving into the mountains turned out to be very bad for the Johnson and the other drivers because they were unable to successfully navigate their vehicles; ultimately, pack mules were brought in to carry the ammunition up the other soldiers (01:09:11:00)  However, some of the mules would not listen to the soldiers, so the soldiers had to find soldiers who knew how to work with mules (01:09:22:00)  At some points, the “roads” leading into the mountains were only a little over a foot wide; nevertheless, the mules were sure-footed enough to successfully navigate the roads (01:09:31:00) o From Johnson’s perspective, the fighting eventually devolved into a fight between the various artillery units (01:09:45:00)  For the most part, the shells that the enemy would fire at the soldiers was just as bad as the shrapnel that came from the explosions (01:09:56:00) �  Whenever the soldiers would build protection, a shell would come in an knock it all down; the soldiers could not dig in, so they were forced to build their protection above ground (01:10:06:00) o Johnson’s company eventually ended up in the town of Troina, which was located near the middle of the island, on the west side of Mt. Etna (01:10:24:00) Back when Johnson’s company was in Africa, right after the company had first set up, they were attacked by enemy aircraft and ended up losing their colonel, a lieutenant, and another soldier (01:10:54:00) o As the fighting continued, both in Africa and in Sicily, the company was constantly being hit by enemy aircraft, as well as by enemy artillery, which was very good (01:11:11:00)  However, the American artillery often proved to be just as good was the German artillery (01:11:21:00)  One time, Johnson was out with a group that became cut off from the company and unable to make it back (01:11:53:00)  The major leading the group called on artillery to help and eventually, the soldiers were able to make a break for the American lines (01:12:04:00)  After the soldiers made it back, the colonel was called into headquarters and reprimanded for the amount of artillery used to assist the soldiers (01:12:37:00) o The colonel replied that it took eighteen years to make a man and only eighteen seconds to make a round of ammunition; once the colonel said that, the commanding officer dismissed him (01:12:53:00) o Once in Sicily, Johnson’s battalion did suffer a high number of casualties among the officers, although the casualties were mostly confined to the officers in “A”, “B”, and “C” companies (01:13:39:00)  The majority of the officer casualties resulted from the fact that officers often led their forces from the front (01:13:51:00)  From the first time Johnson and the other men joined the 1st Infantry, they were exposed to the division’s motto: “No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great-Duty First” (01:14:10:00)  Although the majority of the officers in the unit were good, there were a few who were questionable and almost got Johnson killed on several different occasions (01:14:23:00)  However, by the time those incidents occurred, Johnson had enough experience to know, that although he should not question the officers, they were doing something wrong (01:14:34:00)  One time, Johnson would tell that his group, carrying supplies to “A” Company, was headed in the wrong direction; the group eventually managed to sort itself out and made it to “A” Company just before dawn, although the “A” Company commander was furious that they had no shown up earlier (01:14:47:00) o When Johnson group made it back to headquarters company, Johnson’s commander called him into his office �     and told him to get the officer who had led the group into the commander’s office (01:15:28:00) o Once in the office, the officer admitted that the group had made a mistake; when the commander asked who corrected the mistake, the officer said Johnson had (01:15:48:00) o Following the incident, Johnson began receiving more information about where he would be going with the different groups (01:16:01:00)  Another time, while the battalion was in central France, the same officer who had led the bumbled group to re-supply “A” Company was leading a recon with a 14-ton vehicle (01:16:11:00) o Johnson could not understand why the officer had chosen to use a 14-ton vehicle for the recon, when a jeep would have worked much better (01:16:34:00) o At one point, Johnson was preparing to move the vehicle through an opening when an enemy round passed in-front of the vehicle (01:16:45:00) o Johnson asked the officer if the officer still wanted to do the recon and the officer told Johnson to turn the vehicle around and get out of there (01:17:05:00) Once their unit was stationed at Troina in Sicily, Johnson and the other soldiers were sent to sleep on a hillside; Johnson did not realize it at the time but the “hillside” he and the men were sleeping on was the backside of Mt. Etna (01:17:45:00) o As Johnson settled in, he heard rumble but initially passed it off as just more incoming enemy artillery (01:17:56:00) o However, nothing happened and Johnson heard another rumble; again, nothing happened, except that the top of Etna began to smoke (01:18:06:00) o Although the Americans had a large amount of enemy soldiers trapped on the island, from what Johnson has read on the campaign, mistakes were made that allowed a good portion of those soldiers to escape (01:18:26:00) Sicily was not an easy fight for Johnson and the other soldiers; from what Johnson can remember, his unit’s companies took around 30 to 40 percent casualties (01:19:08:00) Once the men were at Troina, they were told that they were being shipped back to England; however, there was a time lapse between when the soldiers left Sicily and arrived in England where they were stuck at sea (01:19:37:00) o The soldiers returned to England aboard ships and to Johnson, it seemed like the soldiers were at sea for a long time (01:20:59:00) Once back in England, one of the assignments the men were ordered to do was construct a series of barbed-wire beach obstacles in case the Germans ever decided to attack England (01:21:20:00) o However, most of the soldiers realized the work was just something to keep them busy (01:21:28:00) The soldiers ended up spending quite a long time in England and they ended up staying in the homes of civilian English families (01:21:36:00) o The English were constantly asking if the soldiers knew where the soldiers would be going next but the soldiers never knew for sure (01:21:48:00) �  o Johnson himself ended up celebrating Christmas with the family whom he was staying with (01:22:07:00)  The woman who owned the house where he was staying had been preparing for Christmas for six months ahead of time (01:22:13:00) o One thing Johnson noticed as that regardless of what social standing they had before the war, all the English were brought to the same level (01:23:00:00) Johnson’s unit did not do too much while it was stationed in England and there was a lot of wasted time (01:23:21:00) Johnson made it into London once and another time, he was at the beach and watched as a cripple airplane flew overhead (01:23:32:00) o Johnson and the other soldiers did see the massive damage that the German V-1 and V-2 rockets caused; London itself was almost flattened from the rockets when Johnson went to visit the city (01:24:01:00)  Later in the war, Johnson’s unit was so close to the launch point for the rockets that they were mistakenly attacked by American aircraft who were trying to attack the launch point (01:24:28:00)  Another time, Johnson was stationed near Frankfurt when he saw something rise up from the ground; Johnson told his commander about it, who then sent the information up the chain of command (01:24:53:00)  About a week later, Johnson got a notice back that he had witnessed a V-2 rocket launch (01:25:13:00)  While in England, Johnson and the other soldiers saw incoming V-1s and V-2s; however, they saw more of the V-1 than the V-2 (01:25:30:00) Invasion of Normandy / End of the War (01:26:21:00)  As it became closer to the invasion of Normandy, Johnson began driving around more at night with his jeep (01:26:21:00) o One night, Johnson had to drive an officer, newly-arrived from the United States; the officer fell asleep and when he woke up, in his mind, Johnson was driving the jeep on the wrong side of the road (01:26:35:00)  The officer grabbed the wheel but Johnson stopped him and reprimanded him; Johnson was the driver of the jeep, he knew what he was doing, and they were on the right side of the road for England (01:26:49:00)  Later, Johnson had to dodge something in the road but the officer did not believe him and ordered Johnson to back the jeep up to prove there was something in the road to dodge (01:27:11:00)  Johnson backed the jeep up fifty yards and in the middle of the road was a large hole (01:27:21:00) o After the experience with the newly-arrived officer, whenever he was assigned to drive around an officer, Johnson would ask if the officer was new and if the officer understood that Johnson would be doing the driving (01:27:42:00) o Johnson drove so much at night that he was eventually able to drive upwards of 70MPH, using the shadows and the feel of the jeep on the road (01:27:58:00) o During the night, the headlights were “blacked out”, covered in canvas with only a tiny slit allowing light through; however, the slits were not meant to help the driver but to make him visible to anyone else on the road (01:28:27:00) �    When someone saw the slits on the headlights, they knew they were about twenty feet away from the other vehicle (01:28:41:00) Once it became time to begin the actually preparation for the Normandy invasion, Johnson's unit moved to around Plymouth (01:29:03:00) o Recently, Johnson has read that there were around two million soldiers stationed around Plymouth prior to the invasion, including not just American soldiers but also British soldiers and soldiers from the other Allied nations (01:29:12:00) o Once in Plymouth, Johnson was assigned to drive a half-track, which was much harder to hide from the enemy than a jeep (01:29:25:00)  Nevertheless, the soldiers were moved into a secluded area and told to wait for information (01:29:33:00) o As the men waited, the English countryside was covered with vehicles, ranging from tanks to trucks (01:29:58:00) Eventually, loaded on a Landing Craft-Tank (an LCT); apart from Johnson and a sergeant, the other things on the LCT were a large stack on dynamite towards the back of the ship, an L-10 Bulldozer, Johnson’s half-track, a small medical group, and three soldiers who operated the bulldozer (01:30:07:00) o The LCT went out once, on June 5th, but returned to the port soon after due to inclement weather on the English Channel, with waves averaging around six to seven feet (01:31:08:00)  Luckily, the LCT was a larger ship, which meant Johnson and the other soldiers did not receive the buffeting from the wind that the smaller landing craft received (01:31:29:00) o Prior to the landing, wherever Johnson looked around the LCT, he would see ships (01:31:51:00) o Johnson and the other men found out where they would be going just before they boarded the LCT; the Supreme Allied Commander, General Dwight Eisenhower, was there and he told the men information about where they were going to be invading (01:32:26:00)  Nevertheless, the period after the LCT had returned to port for the inclement weather was a little confusing; the men did not know what was happening when all of a sudden, the LCT started moving (01:32:57:00) The LCT eventually moved out, got into its assigned position before new orders were given; at 5:30, a bullhorn attached to the lead ship ordered Johnson’s LCT to move in, which it did (01:33:25:00) o The LCT had moved fifty to one hundred feet towards the shore when the bullhorn came on again and ordered the LCT to come back; the LCT had hit a mine, which blew the entire from end of the ship off and made it impossible for the ship to go forward (01:34:26:00) o As the ship was trying to move back, it was hit by all sorts of enemy fire, everything from shore batteries and machine guns to mortars and direct fire from German soldiers (01:34:56:00) o The ship began listing to one side and eventually caught fire; once the ship was on fire, Johnson grabbed a nearby fire extinguisher, climbed up, and had just about completely put the fire out when the extinguisher ran out (01:35:15:00) �     The fire came back and hit Johnson in his face before someone else threw up another extinguisher, which Johnson grabbed and used to put out the remainder of the fire (01:35:38:00) o Once the fire was out, Johnson, who was confused as to why the LCT was not moving, climbed up higher on the ship and saw that the captain of the ship had lost a leg and had been knocked out (01:36:03:00) o Johnson took charge of the situation and talked through the speaking tube to the engine room to get the LCT to go back (01:36:16:00) o Eventually, the LCT ended up in front of a destroyer, which promptly yelled at the LCT to get out of the way; Johnson managed to maneuver the LCT to the side of the destroyer and was close enough so that when the destroyer launched a broadside, the heat from the guns was strong enough to almost burn Johnson and the other men on the LCT (01:36:44:00) o The LCT drifted as wave after wave of ships passed them to go in for the invasion; eventually, an ammunition ship after the back end of the fleet stopped and allowed the men on the LCT to board (01:37:18:00)  The soldiers medical detachment survived but Johnson does not know what happened to the three other soldiers who were also on the ship; Johnson’s sergeant also survived and he recommended Johnson receive the Silver Star (01:37:45:00) o Eventually, the LCT was assigned a new captain and was sent back in to complete the landing (01:38:10:00)  The landing attempt was awkward for the LCT because thanks to the damage from the mine, every time the LCT would go forward, the ship would take on water (01:38:31:00)  However, the new captain knew how to properly handle this problem and was able to successfully land the ship (01:38:38:00) o As the LCT moved to land on Omaha Beach, Johnson and the other soldiers saw the remnants that remained of the first twenty minutes of the invasion (01:38:59:00) After the LCT had landed, the sergeant disembarked first and took command of the offloading of the ship (01:39:14:00) o Once off the LCT, Johnson and the other soldiers had no trouble getting off the beach; once the ship was unloaded, Johnson and the sergeant were able to make their way to where the headquarters company had set up their position, four miles from the beach (01:39:18:00) o By the time the LCT finally managed to land, it was getting to be later in the morning (01:39:37:00) As the LCT was trying to fall back, that was when Johnson and the other soldiers heard the naval bombardment that was supposed to loosen up the German defenses (01:41:10:00) Although Johnson himself was not fired upon as he exited the beach, there was still gunfire happening off to his right (01:41:46:00) After Johnson and the sergeant re-joined the headquarters company, they dug in and waited for something to happen, although nothing ever did; Johnson attributes part of this �   to the fact the company was not meant to be a fighting unit, whereas the other companies in the battalion did take heavy casualties (01:42:19:00) o To Johnson, it seemed like the entire battalion was in the same place for an extended period of time, which Johnson equated to the battalion licking its wounds from the fighting (01:42:52:00) o Once the entire unit was back together and had organized their artillery, they began to move out, although Johnson cannot remember where to (01:43:07:00) As the battalion continued advancing inland, they eventually entered the hedgerows (bocage) that divided up the land; once the soldiers were in the bocage, Johnson had very little in the way of assignments because it was difficult for Johnson to drive his halftrack in the thick hedgerows (01:44:11:00) o For the most part, any work that was done was done during the night and on some nights, Johnson would carry supplies to the front with his halftrack (01:44:22:00)  One time, Johnson’s ammunition carrier was supposed to be full of ammunition but was instead full of whiskey for the soldiers (01:44:45:00)  Johnson ended up getting inspected by a general during the trip; when the general asked what was in the ammunition carrier, Johnson lied and said ammunition (01:44:59:00) o Inspections on the front were not uncommon; several times, the soldiers had to line up for an inspection while under enemy fire (01:45:37:00) By the time of the Normandy invasion, Johnson’s headquarters company had experience almost a 100% turnover in officers, either from casualties or officers transferring out of the unit; this meant that during Normandy, there was a large portion of new officers in the unit (01:46:06:00) o However, Johnson and the other enlisted personnel never really got close to the officers; both groups did their jobs and Johnson himself spent most of his time with a sergeant who he worked well with (01:46:19:00) During the Allied breakout from the town of St Lô, Johnson remembers that the 1st Infantry was a follow-up unit to another division (01:46:52:00) o Johnson remembers that prior to the actual attack, aircraft from the Air Force flew overhead for about four hours; the 1st Infantry was stationed two-and-a-half miles away from the front lines and as each wave of aircraft flew overhead, their bombs fell a little closer to the soldiers (01:47:07:00)  The bombs from the last wave were so close that some fell on American lines and one ended up killing a high-ranking American General, Lesley McNair (01:47:53:00) o Once the bombings were over and the division stationed in front of the 1st Infantry managed to break out, Johnson’s unit took off and continued advancing to the point that the vehicles ran out of gas (01:48:42:00)  Once they had run out of gas, all the vehicles were lined up along the side of the road, which worried Johnson (01:49:09:00)  Eventually, gasoline was brought up for the vehicles and Johnson put between forty and fifty gallons of gasoline into the half-track’s three fuel tanks (01:49:29:00) �     o After they had re-fueled, the vehicles took off again and covered another twenty to thirty miles; the system of advance far away from their previous position continued for the next couple of weeks (01:49:45:00) o Later, when reading about the breakout, Johnson discovered at both Gen. Patton and Gen. Eisenhower liked the effort put forth by the 1st Infantry during the breakout (01:50:01:00) o As the division advanced through the French countryside, Johnson did not see too much in the way of French civilians; it was still too hot for them to be out in the open (01:50:51:00) The Allied advance was stalled once they reached the Siegfried Line¸ German defensive line; although the soldiers skirted the line, they still encountered several days of heavy fighting at the end of the line (01:51:16:00) Prior to the Siegfried Line¸ the 1st Infantry was in the reserve when the 26th Infantry Division attacked the German city if Aachen (01:51:46:00) o Johnson remembers watching as the entire city was destroyed by direct fire from 155mm howitzers (01:51:56:00) o During the 26th Infantry’s attack, Johnson had a foxhole dug on a hill outside the city and one night, after he came back from working, the sergeant yelled for Johnson to come over to his foxhole (01:52:13:00)  When Johnson asked why, the sergeant told Johnson he had a visit in his foxhole and to check it in the morning; in the morning, Johnson found a dud 190mm round in the bottom of his foxhole (01:52:23:00)  Even through Johnson’s unit was supposedly in reserve, stuff was still getting close to them (01:52:44:00) Johnson remembers going through the town of Düren, the first German city the soldiers went through; while going through Düren, Johnson remembers looking at the buildings and seeing some of the German civilians with guns in their hands (01:52:49:00) o Johnson normally carried his own weapon stung across his chest but when he saw the civilians with their guns, he put the gun in his hand; prior to entering the town, the soldiers had been told that the civilians might not be friendly (01:53:02:00) After leaving Aachen, Johnson’s unit was sent to the town of Schmidt, which was located in the Hürtgen Forest (01:53:49:00) o The fighting in the forest took a heavy toll on the American forces and the forest itself, which was huge, was ripped to pieces; the soldiers had a bet going that if anyone could find a tree that had not been hit, he got fifty cents (01:54:35:00)  At one point, the Americans had roughly 10,000 soldiers in the hospital for frozen feet (01:55:03:00)  The Germans were using airburst artillery rounds, so any place the Americans stayed had to have protection from those rounds (01:55:39:00)  After he came home, Johnson read that the Americans did not gain a thing while fighting in the forest but ended up losing a substantial number of soldiers (01:55:54:00) From what he can remember, Johnson and the other soldiers never really received any time “off” from the fighting (01:56:27:00) �   o The soldiers did receive a short rest period after fighting in the Hürtgen Forest; Johnson pulled his half-track into the company’s new position, unloaded and went into town (01:56:38:00) o However, while Johnson was in town, someone said that an alert had gone up for all the soldiers to return to their units; by the time Johnson returned to the company area, someone had already partially loaded his half-track (01:57:12:00)  However, the person who had started to load the half-track did not know how to do it properly, so Johnson had to unload everything and re-load it properly (01:57:20:00) o The soldiers were on a forty-eight hour alert and sure enough, the orders eventually came through for them to pull out (01:57:28:00) o However, as the regiment was moving out, vehicles were coming from the other direction, which clogged the road; Johnson’s colonel and an officer in-charge of the other vehicles shouted at each other in the middle of the road as to which vehicles had the right-of-way on the road (01:57:42:00) Once the entire 1st Infantry had moved into position along the northern part of the bulge in the Ardennes forest, Johnson remembers that a special artillery unit from the corpslevel was sent to the division (01:58:30:00) o The addition of the special artillery unit gave the division an impressive amount of artillery, everything from corps-level, through division- and regimental-level, to mortars at the company level (01:58:43:00) o When the Germans finally did attack, the fighting was terrible; although German forces did create a smaller bulge in the American lines, they never managed to break through, at least where the 1st Infantry was positioned (01:58:47:00)  During the fighting, it seemed as though the American artillery was firing as fast a machine guns (01:59:16:00) o During the fighting, the Germans attempted to dress some of their soldiers in American uniforms and have them cross the American lines; however, the soldiers in Johnson’s unit were able to see through the ruse (01:59:34:00) As far as Johnson can remember, once the fighting in the Ardennes died down, the 1st Infantry stayed in its position (02:00:34:00) Throughout the entire war, Johnson and the other soldiers never really slept in buildings that much; for the most part, buildings were avoided because they were often being hit by enemy fire (02:01:31:00) o The soldiers did a lot of night fighting and would have to fight whether it was raining or snowing; according to their old commander, the enemy did not like to fight at night, so that was when the soldiers would fight them (02:01:47:00)  At one point, Johnson was taking supplies to the front in the winter while wearing all white and managed to sneak up on a group of soldiers; it ended with a carbine barrel being stuck in Johnson’s stomach (02:02:22:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonE1347V1 Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Edward (Interview outline and video, 1 of 2), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Edward Description An account of the resource Edward Johnson was born in Greenville, Michigan in 1919, and was drafted into the Army in 1941. After training to be a mechanic at Camp Boyd, Texas, Johnson joined Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion 16th Infantry, 1st Infantry Division. He went to England with this unit in 1942, and stayed with it through campaigns in North Africa, Sicily, Normandy, the Hurtgen Forest, Battle of the Bulge and the invasion of Germany, ending up in Czechoslovakia when the war ended. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-28 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8ac02a6c1449f8e94c00629de97d7578.mp4 f6dcd0d97b460fd1af07890b03eb6da0 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6654d77d14c5cfd83241a51344917c61.pdf d8948ac04757ea47dc2aaf6774e12a6b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project World War II Edward Johnson 2 Interview Length: (01:30:07:00) Recap of Experience / Vignettes (00:00:49:00)  While Johnson’s unit was in Africa, there was a problem with the unit’s jeeps, where the engines would hesitate; this worried the men because, given that they were working at night, they did not want the engine to hesitate (00:00:49:00) o When Johnson first joined the headquarters company, another soldier joined with him and the other soldier specialized in working with carburetors, so the two decided to take one of the jeep’s carburetors apart to try to fix the problem (00:01:18:00)  Eventually, the other soldier figured the problem was with the carburetor’s metering rod, which dictated how much fuel went into the carburetor at a given point (00:01:30:00) o Johnson and the other soldier kept fooling with the carburetor for several days, making slight adjustments to the metering rod each time before they got the correct setting (00:02:08:00) o Once they fixed the problem, Johnson and the other soldier turned the carburetor back in; although it did not seem like a major engineering feat, it was important to Johnson and the other soldier because they had figured the problem out by themselves (00:02:19:00) o Prior to Johnson and the other soldier’s fix, whenever someone would push down the accelerator in a jeep, there would be a slight hesitation before the jeep would begin to move (00:02:47:00)  The soldiers did not like the hesitation because at worst, the jeep might not move at all (00:02:52:00)  While in the desert, the constant dust was both a hindrance in maintaining the unit’s vehicles and on the soldiers as well (00:03:19:00) o As well, the temperatures fluctuated greatly, from being very hot during the day to very cold at night (00:03:25:00)  Around Christmas 1942, Johnson’s unit was short on food; the unit had been falling back and were unable to receive their food re-supplies (00:03:51:00) o Eventually, the regimental officers told the men that the German submarines were doing their job and sinking the re-supply ships, which meant there were shortages throughout the American forces (00:04:01:00) o After that, the men were “turned loose” to look for supplies, which mostly consisted of going to the local tangerine trees, where the soldiers were able to harvest tangerines by the bucket-full (00:04:16:00) o As well, the soldiers were able to buy bottles of the local wine for about fifty cents or less per bottle (00:04:36:00)  Some of the soldiers became so drunk that they started throwing hand grenades over a wall to make noise (00:04:56:00) �    o Eventually, command came down wanting to know what all the racket was about; the officers straightened everything out then called all the men together to explain their current situation, which helped alleviate some of the problems (00:05:02:00) o The entire situation was very touch-and-go for a long time; Johnson believes that they came very close to destruction from within, due to a combination of the wine and the food shortage (00:05:17:00) In 1943, Johnson’s unit went to the Casablanca Conference (00:05:34:00) o While at the conference, Johnson saw British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, American President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Admiral Ernest King, and General Dwight D. Eisenhower, among others (00:05:44:00)  For the most part, Johnson and the other soldiers did not recognize the commanders from the Navy or the Air Corps (00:06:22:00) o During the conference, Johnson’s unit performed a demonstration for all the commanders (00:06:32:00) o Being at the conference was interesting for Johnson and the other soldiers; the men were seated no less than fifty feet away from all those high-ranking military officers and senior politicians (00:06:42:00) o In order to get from Algeria back to Morocco, Johnson and the other soldiers had to travel by truck (00:07:02:00) Eventually, the soldiers received some time off while in Oran, Algeria, so they went looking for a beer-garden (00:08:01:00) o To that end, Johnson and a group of soldiers were in “downtown” Oran when a group of other men said they were going to a spot and invited Johnson’s group to come with them; although no one in Johnson’s group knew anyone in the other group, Johnson’s group went anyway (00:08:11:00) o The combined groups went to a beer-garden and had a couple of beers each when all of a sudden, someone came scream out of an upstairs room, which was shortly followed by the arrival of MPs (00:08:27:00) o Although Johnson and the other soldiers in his group were off-duty, they were not supposed to be in section of the city and they knew that; as it turned out, the soldiers were in the Kasbah section of the city (00:08:43:00) o Thankfully, Johnson’s group managed to get out of the area without any of them being caught by the MPs (00:09:24:00) Although a lot of other things happened while Johnson was in Africa, he does not consider them to be that important (00:09:53:00) o For the most part, towards the end of the campaign, Johnson and the other soldiers were getting ready to move into Sicily (00:10:01:00) In his first interview, Johnson told the story of reporting back to a group of high-ranking generals during the Sicily campaign on a day when the Germans launched a counterattack; however, after going back through, Johnson realized that his version was not entirely accurate (00:10:24:00) o During the counter-attack, the German Hermann Goering Division used tanks to attack the American lines where Johnson’s unit was positioned; the Germans so overpowered the Americans that Johnson and the other soldiers were told to stay in the foxholes and let the tanks through (00:10:32:00) �o As the Germans counter-attacked, Johnson was with his regimental commander when the regimental commander was hit and killed (00:10:48:00)  It was prior to dying that the regimental commander ordered Johnson to report back the generals that the German tanks had broken through the American lines (00:10:54:00) o Three or four of the German did manage to successfully break through the entire American line (00:11:13:00) o After Johnson reported the message and returned to his unit, some of the other soldiers were laughing at the fact that during the counter-attack, a couple of generals had to “hit the dirt” (00:11:21:00) o The reason Johnson had to carry the commander’s message in person to the generals was not only were the American’s communication abilities bad but another regiment had also lost its commander, leading to confusion (00:12:02:00)  Prior to being killed, the regimental commander had worked a lot with Johnson doing forward observations, so during the counter-attack, Johnson was right beside him (00:12:24:00)  During the counter-attack, the area where Johnson and the commander were positioned came under mortar attack; while in cover, Johnson could turn his head and watch as the mortar rounds came in (00:12:40:00)  One of the mortar rounds kicked up a stone that shot into the commander’s face (00:12:56:00) o During the counter-attack, headquarters company would have been over-run had it not been for the arrival of an artillery company in the regiment (00:13:12:00)  The breakthrough on the counter-attack consisted only of German tanks; the Americans were able to keep the German infantry at bay (00:13:36:00)  When the other company arrived, those soldiers were able to knock out several of the German tanks, as well as capture three German 88mm antiaircraft guns (00:13:47:00)  The company commander knew the effectiveness of the 88mms against tanks, so once they had captured the three guns, the soldiers used them against the German tanks (00:14:02:00)  The artillery company was normally equipped with 105mm howitzers, which could fire an armor-piercing round that was also effective against German tanks (00:14:17:00)  The combination of the 105mms and the 88mms, plus the arrival of some air-support turned the German counter-attack back (00:14:25:00)  However, for a period, Johnson seriously thought that his company was going to be pushed back (00:14:37:00) o Prior to the day he died, the regimental commander and Johnson had been in several scrapes, but they were never anything too serious (00:14:50:00)  The regimental commander was a former West Point graduate and did not believe in the idea of stay back behind the lines (00:14:55:00)  At times, Johnson would wonder why he and the commander would go off by themselves without any support; however, the commander seemed to know what he was doing (00:15:27:00) �      While in the field, because he did not want anyone to know the information, the commander never wore any insignia that identified him as an officer; as well, while in the field, there was not to be any saluting (00:15:54:00)  The commander believed in leading the from the front, which caused him to be captured several times by the enemy, although the soldiers managed to get him back each time (00:16:10:00) o By the end of the German counter-attack, the Americans managed to capture around forty to fifty thousand German soldiers (00:16:30:00) During the fighting in Sicily, Johnson and the other soldiers could not understand how the Germans managed to escape when the Allied forces had them trapped (00:16:56:00) For the most part, given the terrain and where he was and was not able to travel with his jeep, Johnson did not have too much work during the Sicily campaign (00:17:22:00) Eventually, Johnson’s unit was pulled out of Sicily and began making preparations for their next operation, including breaking in a new regimental commander who joined the regiment while it was still in Sicily (00:17:35:00) o Once the unit was out of the fighting in Sicily, the new commander took the regiment into the mountains to “teach them how to fire a rifle”, although all of the soldiers had already earned their marksmanship credentials (00:17:49:00)  Each soldier went through about three hundred rounds apiece, to prove that they knew how to use their weapons (00:18:05:00) o Before his arrival, Johnson and the other soldiers were told that their new regiment commander was a strict disciplinarian who placed a large emphasis on the spit and polish aspect of their lives (00:18:17:00)  This information gave the soldiers a skewed view of the new commander before he even arrived at the regiment but in the end, the commander turned out to be just fine (00:18:30:00) By the time they returned to England, Johnson figured that he and the other soldiers had traveled over 10,000 miles just by water (00:18:45:00) o At certain times, Johnson and the other soldiers were better sailors then the actually sailors aboard the ships (00:18:58:00) After they were back in England, Johnson and the other soldiers were kept busy with various training exercises; which ended up involving several bad incidents (00:19:06:00) o While in England, Johnson and the other soldiers ended up living with various English families and one of their staple meals was Brussels sprouts and SPAM; however, the men ate whatever was available (00:20:05:00) o The soldiers spent quite a long time in England as the invasion plans were set and they knew what was going to be happening (00:20:38:00) o Johnson and the other soldiers in his regiment often wondered why their regiment and the 1st Infantry Division in general was used so much (00:20:52:00)  Eventually, the soldiers found out that both General Patton and General Eisenhower liked the 1st Infantry, so whenever there was a special mission, the 1st Infantry was chosen to carry it out (00:20:56:00) �Normandy / Post – D-Day (00:21:35:00)  Once the soldiers deployed over to France, Johnson’s unit eventually set up a position fifteen miles away from the landing areas (00:21:35:00) o Every night at ten o’clock, a German airplane would fly over the position and the men began calling it “Schicklgruber” (00:21:42:00) o On the third night that the unit was dug in, another group of soldiers came up behind Johnson’s unit and began digging in as well; as the other soldiers dug in, Johnson was sent to see who they were (00:21:55:00)  The other soldiers were part of a 90mm anti-aircraft unit and as Johnson was explaining about the nightly fly-over, the soldiers said they knew about the fly-over (00:22:02:00)  The soldiers said that if the German airplane flew over that night and did not change anything from the previous nights, they were going to shoot him down (00:22:14:00)  At ten o’clock, the German airplane began flying over and the antiaircraft soldiers waited and waited before firing; all four guns fired at the same time and managed to take down the airplane (00:22:33:00)  Johnson went back the next day and all the anti-aircraft soldiers were happy because it was their first time on the line and the airplane was the first one they had shot down (00:22:46:00) o When someone asked how the soldiers came up with the name “Schicklgruber”, Johnson explained that it was the last name of Hitler’s father before he changed it to Hitler (00:23:51:00) o The entire situation made Johnson and the other soldiers feel better because it showed that they were at least receiving more support, especially against the German’s 88mm (00:24:10:00)  Although Johnson’s regiment was receiving more support from other units during the Normandy campaign, part of this was off-set by the influx of replacement soldiers who did not have any experience of being in combat (00:25:11:00) o On several occasions, Johnson and the other veteran soldiers in the regiment were scared of replacement soldiers because the replacements keep screw up; however, the commanders would come down and say it was the job of Johnson and the other veterans to teach the replacements (00:25:20:00)  In the headquarters company in particular, there were not as many replacement soldiers, so training them was not a problem that Johnson had to deal with (00:25:46:00) o As well, all the companies in the regiments were losing their officers at an extraordinary rate (00:25:57:00)  As Johnson mentioned during the first interview, the pre-breakout bombing outside of St. Lo was a shock to the soldiers; they were only half a mile away from the last bomb dropped when they started two-and-a-half miles when the bombing started (00:26:13:00) o As a result of the bombs dropping short of their intended target, the Americans lost not only two high-ranking generals but also nearly an entire regiment of soldiers (00:26:42:00)  Following the St. Lo breakout, Johnson’s memory becomes a little fuzzy about what happened and where he went (00:27:09:00) � o From what Johnson does remember, it seemed like the 1st Infantry was following Gen. Patton’s advance but the division also seemed to be going all over the place in France (00:27:17:00) o Eventually, the division was pulled into a large fight at the German Siegfried Defensive line; from what Johnson can remember, the fighting took place at the end of the defensive line (00:27:28:00)  Initially, the soldiers were able to move through the line relatively easily; it was when they came back and tried to attack in a different direction that they ran into problems (00:28:02:00)  The fighting lasted for about three to four days, during which it was extremely hot; it eventually reached the point that units were placing resupplies of water over re-supplies of ammunition (00:28:11:00)  Johnson was given the assignment to take three half-tracks loaded with water up to the front line (00:28:34:00) o Once Johnson reached the drop-off point, a pair of regimental commanders were at the drop-off point, waiting for the water (00:28:47:00) o As the supplies were unloaded, Johnson went into one of the regimental headquarters and inside, there were six different telephones, all ringing at once (00:29:04:00) o Both the regimental commanders were desperate to get the re-supplies and replacement soldiers (00:29:29:00)  One of the commanders said that at one point, if he had thirty-two soldiers remaining in one of his companies, he would be fortunate (00:30:09:00)  After the fighting was over, the soldiers were told they managed to take out three German divisions while only losing one American division, which just happened to be the 1st Infantry (00:30:16:00)  However, that was not the first time the 1st Infantry was beaten up; after Normandy, the companies in the division were riddled with casualties (00:30:34:00) o After the invasion, Johnson and some of the other soldiers figured that the division had lost around thirty to thirty-five percent of their total troop strength (00:30:47:00) o As far as Johnson can remember, following the massive fight in the Siegfried line, the 1st Infantry first moved to the city of Aachen, then to an area around the Ruhr river, then to the city of Bonn (00:31:01:00)  In particular, Johnson remembers Bonn because the city was the home of the Leica camera company and he remembers the rear echelon forces rushing into the city to “capture” the camera supply (00:31:10:00) During one of the breakouts following the Normandy invasion, the men did not know where they were going but were traveling at break-neck speed regardless (00:31:59:00) o All of a sudden, the advance stopped and when Johnson looked around, he saw people; he and the other soldiers did not realize that they were on the outskirts of Paris (00:32:18:00) �   o As the men were waiting, someone jumped on the side of Johnson’s half-track and as it turned out, that person spoke English (00:32:27:00) o Johnson grabbed his gun, opened the half-track’s hatch, and looked at the man, who claimed he was from Chicago; when Johnson asked what the man was doing there, the man said he wanted to share a drink with Johnson (00:32:35:00)  The man claimed that he would also “teach” Johnson how to drink, so after taking the first drink, he handed the bottle to Johnson, who also took a drink (00:32:58:00) o When Johnson again asked what the man was doing in the outskirts of Paris, the man explained that he had been caught at the beginning of the war and unable to make it back to the United States (00:33:34:00) o The man explained that he had buried the bottle once the war started and that was the first time it had seen daylight since then; as well, Johnson was the first American the man had seen to share the bottle with (00:33:47:00) o Although they made it to the outskirts of the city, Johnson and the other soldiers never made it into the city; instead, the 1st Infantry went around the city while other units went through the middle (00:33:58:00) Around Christmas 1944, Johnson believes the 1st Infantry was in Luxembourg and one day, Johnson and other solider were in Johnson’s half-track when Johnson stopped the half-track next to a house that had partially been built into an embankment (00:35:15:00) o A couple of old ladies came out of the house and motioned for the two soldiers to come over, which they did, although neither could speak the language; eventually, both sides worked out that it was Christmas time and the two women wanted the soldiers to have Christmas dinner with them (00:35:46:00) o On the designated date and time, Johnson and the other soldier went back to the house and the two women had a Christmas dinner of chicken and all the trimmings prepared (00:36:22:00)  However, right in the middle of the dinner, a German V-1 “Buzz Bomb” flew overhead, which caused everyone to stop eating (00:36:44:00) o After the dinner, the two women explained that they had to go into the basement from something, which turned out to be wine that was special and only meant to be drunk on Christmas (00:37:10:00) o Although Johnson and the other soldier should have gotten the names and address of the two women, it was not something they thought about (00:37:47:00) At one point, Johnson was on guard-duty and a series of German V-2 rockets flew overhead; however, Johnson and the other guards had no idea what was going on, only that something was happening in the distance (00:38:51:00) o About a week later, word came back that Johnson and the other guards had witnessed the launch of V-2s (00:39:23:00) o The Germans were always good a pulling things out, such as the V-2, that forced the soldiers to always be on their toes (00:39:38:00) After the fighting around the Siegfried line, the fighting let up for a while although Johnson does remember from time to time having his half-track get stuck in mud because the half-track was not very good at traversing mud (00:39:56:00) o Eventually, the soldiers were given an alert to be ready to move and again, Johnson took off as fast as the half-track would allow him (00:40:22:00) � o After some time, the soldiers arrived at a funny-looking bridge; the name “Remagen” did not mean anything to Johnson at the time but he did know that crossing the Rhine, the river that the bridge spanned was a big deal (00:40:41:00)  Johnson and the soldiers crossed the river using the old railroad bridge that had spanned the river before the war (00:41:07:00)  While crossing, Johnson had to be careful where he drove because the bridge itself was not very stable; conversely, all Johnson wanted to do was reach the other side (00:41:16:00) o The soldiers crossed the bridge around noon and sat along the bank of the river for a couple of hours (00:41:36:00)  Suddenly, Johnson heard a loud “bang”, turned his head, and saw that the railroad bridge had collapsed; the only thing remaining from the bridge were a pair of pillars standing in the river (00:42:03:00)  Later, Johnson returned to the area and saw one of the pontoon bridges that had been built to replace the collapsed bridge (00:42:35:00) Johnson does not remember anything significant happening until his unit moved into the mountains (00:43:32:00) o As they moved through the mountains, the soldiers were capturing a large amount of German soldiers; however, for the most part, the German soldiers did not give up easily and fought right to the very end (00:43:52:00) o During the advance, the soldiers heard about the massacre that occurred near the village of Malmedy (00:45:15:00) o Soon after hearing about the Malmedy massacre, Johnson founded a sculptured Hitler head in an SS headquarters and a Nazi flag in a backroom of a stadium in Nuremberg (00:45:48:00) o By this, Johnson and the other soldiers were seeing scores of German prisoners; whenever they encountered German soldiers, Johnson’s job was to find an officer to take care of them because Johnson’s unit did not have the ability to effectively take care of the prisoners (00:46:52:00)  For the most part, the prisoners Johnson saw fell into one of two categories, either very old or very young (00:47:21:00)  The soldiers tended to keep more of an eye on the younger prisoners or members of the SS (00:47:26:00)  Starting with the breakout from Normandy, Johnson’s unit was capturing hundreds and hundreds of prisoners (00:47:52:00)  Every night, the soldiers would catch a couple of dozen German prisoners (00:48:05:00)  As well, as the soldiers advanced through Germany, they had to deal with civilians who were retreating west, in order to avoid the Russian advance from the east (00:48:20:00)  In particular, it was difficult to use the highways because the civilians wanted to head east while the soldiers were advancing west (00:48:36:00)  Eventually, Johnson ended up carrying civilians from the front to the rear area (00:48:57:00) �  After North Africa, the 1st Infantry’s division commander left to take command of the 36th Infantry Division and lead that division during the invasion of Sicily [Terry Allen actually stayed with the 1st Division into the Sicilian campaign, but was then relieved and eventually led the 95th Division] (00:49:29:00) o After about the fourth day of fighting, the general came through Johnson’s area to assess the situation and Johnson was sent to talk with him; however, Johnson was not told he would be meeting a general (00:49:45:00)  Johnson asked the general what it was like leading different troops into battle and the only thing the general could say was it was different (00:50:34:00)  Johnson asked if the general was there to rejoin the division but the general only said was he had flown over to see the division (00:50:45:00) o Soon after his meeting with the general, Johnson’s sergeant sent out Johnson on another assignment (00:50:54:00)  Johnson reported to the area where the sergeant had told him to go and as it turned out, Johnson and some other soldiers were receiving commendation medals (00:51:00:00)  Prior to the ceremony, Johnson did not even know he had earned a medal, so he was stunned by what was happening (00:51:28:00)  Johnson ended up having to ask a colonel what the medal was that he had earned; the colonel told him it was a Silver Star, an award that Johnson should be proud of (00:51:51:00)  Later one, Johnson chided the sergeant for not telling him ahead of time what was happening because Johnson felt kind of stupid walking into a tent filled with generals and not knowing what was going on (00:52:33:00) o Another good officer that the soldiers had was General Clift Andrus, who Johnson worked with while in Africa (00:52:56:00)  Andrus was an older officer, having served during World War I, and he treated the soldiers like they were his sons (00:53:09:00) o Being a member of headquarters company meant that Johnson met several different generals, who always seemed to be around (00:53:24:00)  General Clarence Huebner, who commanded the division between General Terry Allen and Gen. Andrus, was not the friendliest towards the enlisted men and would often look down his nose at them (00:53:41:00)  On the other hand, Gen. Allen was a soldier’s general who did not believe in the “spit and polish” aspect of a soldier’s life (00:53:52:00) When the war ended, Johnson was stationed in the town of Cheb, in what was then part of Czechoslovakia (00:54:17:00) o When Johnson and the other soldiers arrived in Czechoslovakia, the Czechoslovaks did not know how to react to the soldiers or whether or not they could trust them (00:54:35:00) o There were a lot of mountains in the area surrounding Cheb, which meant the majority of the roads were not very good (00:54:51:00) o While in Cheb, soldiers from the division ended up capturing a couple of German generals amongst all the German soldiers who were surrendering (00:55:02:00) �   However, even as the Germans were retreating, they would not run and forced the Americans to fight for everything (00:55:11:00) o Once word finally came down that the war was over, the sergeant came around and when Johnson said that he did not believe it, the sergeant told him he would ask again (00:55:40:00)  By ten o’clock, the sergeant had come back and confirmed that the war was indeed over (00:55:56:00)  The surprise for Johnson personally was, once he and the other soldiers heard the war was over, there was not a sound made in their area (00:56:01:00)  To Johnson, it was surprising the none of the soldiers wanted to celebrate the end of the war (00:56:27:00) o Johnson and the other soldiers did not spend too long at Cheb before being assigned to clear out a German air base (00:56:39:00)  However, some of the old-timers in the division were called in and told they were being shipped home (00:56:54:00)  During this time, Johnson and some other soldiers kept trying to obtain passes to visit the “rats nest” but were repeatedly denied (00:57:02:00) o Although Johnson did at one point meet Russian soldiers, he does not remember where exactly that was (00:58:14:00)  Johnson remembers that a Russian soldier wanted Johnson’s canteen and proceeded to fill the canteen half-full of vodka (00:58:32:00)  From what Johnson and the other soldiers saw, the Russians were a mean bunch and did horrible things to a group of POWs they had previously captured (00:59:05:00) o While traveling through Germany, Johnson did see groups of displaced persons, although he does not remember where (00:59:33:00)  Other times, Johnson and the other soldiers were made to walk through the Jewish concentration camps (00:59:42:00)  All the displaced persons moving around made it a mess for the soldiers to try to move (01:00:05:00) Once it was time for him to go home, Johnson and some other soldiers traveled back to the French port of Le Havre and made the trip back to the United States, which turned out to not be a pleasant trip (01:00:19:00) o For the trip, Johnson and the other soldiers were placed aboard a Liberty Ship, which Johnson thought was the wrong name for that type of ship (01:00:39:00) o The lead-up to Le Havre is a blank for Johnson, apart from the fact that he and the other soldiers were constantly moving (01:01:01:00)  For the most part, the soldiers moved around by train, although Johnson does not remember specifics, except that he and the other soldiers carried all their supplies in their backpacks (01:01:12:00) Back during the Battle of the Bulge, Johnson’s unit was deployed near the Belgian town of St. Vith and had pushed out too far from the other American forces, which caused them to be hit by their own artillery (01:02:06:00) �o It only took a couple of rounds for the artillerymen to figure out that Johnson’s unit was being accidentally bombarded, it was still a bad experience (01:02:27:00) o After the shelling, Johnson’s unit was moved back to rejoin the remainder of the American forces (01:02:33:00) o At some point during the fighting, German forces managed to break though the 1st Infantry’s lines not far from Johnson’s unit (01:02:45:00)  Once word of the breakthrough came through, Johnson’s unit was lined up in a way that they had never done before, followed by all the artillery, waiting for the German attack (01:02:52:00)  When the Germans finally did attack, all the artillery, along with incoming airplanes, stooped the Germans cold; the Germans did not break through the defensive line set up by Johnson’s unit (01:03:31:00)  Johnson did not realize that the area his unit had been assigned to was such a key place; near the unit was an ammunition dump that none of the soldiers knew about and that ammunition dump was one of the objectives for the German forces trying to break through (01:04:06:00)  Johnson remembers that when he and the other soldiers tried to get forward to plug the hole, the highway was full of American soldiers trying to get away from the advancing Germans (01:04:25:00)  At one point, there was an argument between two soldiers as to who had the right-of-way (01:04:44:00) End of Enlistment / Civilian Life (01:05:25:00)  Once Johnson got on the Liberty Ship at Le Havre, nothing much happened, although Johnson was sweating out the journey regardless (01:05:25:00) o Although he never got seasick, Johnson was more concerned that the ship was not going to make it back to the United States; he had made it that far but the ship was not going to make it (01:05:31:00) o The journey ended up taking several days longer to get from Le Havre back to the United States than it had for Johnson to sail aboard the Queen Mary liner from the United States to Europe (01:05:57:00)  Apart from being slow, the Johnson believed the Liberty ship was poorly made; the ship constantly made noises that made Johnson believe the ship was going to collapse (01:06:26:00) o Once the ship came closer to the United States, Johnson and the other soldiers had to “straighten up”, such as correcting their language, because they were going to be civilians again (01:06:34:00) o Johnson remembers the ship pulling into New York Harbor and seeing the Statue of Liberty, which was a welcome sight (01:06:54:00) o The night that they arrived, Johnson and the other soldiers were treated to a large steak dinner; unfortunately, Johnson and some of the other soldiers ended up getting sick as a result of the dinner because they had not eaten anything like that for months (01:07:24:00) �  The dinner was held in a warehouse with rows of tables and at one end of the warehouse were crates full of supplies destined to be sent to Russia; on the crates was a big sign that read “Horse Meat” (01:07:44:00)  Although the people tried to help the soldiers, the soldiers were in shock from being home, so it did not matter one way or the other (01:08:10:00) After New York, Johnson and some of the other soldiers were sent to Fort Sheridan, Illinois to be officially checked out (01:08:33:00) o Once Johnson got to Fort Sheridan, he found out he had an ulcerated tooth, which required him to visit the base’s hospital (01:09:17:00)  While at the hospital, Johnson ended up meeting his future wife, who was working at the hospital (01:09:25:00)  Johnson arrived at the hospital with a group of soldiers and they all went into a large ward, which was meant to acclimate the soldiers to being in the hospital (01:09:41:00)  However, by that point, Johnson was not in a very good mood because he did not like being sent to the hospital (01:10:01:00)  When the nurses first came to check on him, Johnson told them to leave him along and they did for a while, until an officer from overseas asked why Johnson was being ornery (01:10:10:00)  Eventually, the hospital staff managed to get Johnson settled down and got his tooth taken care of (01:10:36:00)  Over time, Johnson noticed that the same nurse was checking on him and when he finally asked her why she kept coming back, the nurse said that she liked Johnson (01:10:53:00) o Instead of receiving a traditional discharge, Johnson ended up receiving a medical discharge because he had spent three or four months in the hospital (01:11:12:00) o Because he had been out of touch with home for so long, cultural, everything, such as music, was new to him (01:11:36:00)  The adjustment of going from the front line to the “front bed” was a little much for Johnson (01:11:47:00) o At the time of his discharge, Johnson figures he probably weighed one-hundredand-twenty pounds, soaking wet, and he, like the other soldiers, was beat up (01:11:56:00) o Realizing that he did not have as much pressure on him as he did during combat was a tremendous factor for Johnson and he was in an adjustment period for a long time, even after his discharge (01:12:15:00)  Going from everyday life in combat to having people who had not been overseas taking care of him was a big adjustment and sometimes, it did not go over well (01:12:34:00)  One of the first things Johnson would look for on the people who would take care of him was whether or not they had an overseas service ribbons (01:12:59:00) o One of the people was a major and Johnson ended up hitting it off with him right away; when Johnson said he might be taking things too far in his reaction, the major said �   that he was not and Johnson’s state-of-mind was a normal reaction that most people did not understand (01:13:03:00) o On V-J Day, Johnson told the person in-charge of the ward he was in that he was going out that night; although the person said “no”, Johnson disregarded that, put on his clothes behind everyone’s back, and put his hospital gown back on over the clothes (01:14:07:00)  Johnson knew where the back entrance to the hospital was, so he slipped out and went to downtown Chicago (01:14:35:00)  Johnson was wearing all his ribbons on his uniform, so he did not buy a drink the entire night; in fact, drinks were coming from Johnson’s right and left and he did a pretty good job at putting them away (01:14:46:00)  About one o’clock in the morning, Johnson headed back to the hospital; when he arrived back, the head of the ward was waiting for him (01:14:59:00)  Most of the soldiers who could drink did so; Johnson figures it was a way of dealing with what was going on (01:15:28:00) o As he stayed in the hospital, Johnson continued to gain weight, gaining thirty pounds in only thirty days; Johnson ended up eating Milky Way candy bars by the carton (01:15:46:00)  While in the hospital, Johnson also ended up giving up smoking (01:16:02:00)  On the voyage from Le Havre to the United States, there was a priest aboard the Liberty ship and when Johnson said that he was going to quit smoking, the priest condescendingly said “I bet you are” (01:16:22:00)  The priest gave Johnson his name and number and told Johnson to call him in six months to see if he really did quit smoking (01:16:48:00)  When the priest asked Johnson what made him think he could quit smoking, Johnson said it was simply mind over matter and if Johnson had the mind to do it, then he would do it (01:16:55:00)  Although the priest said it was not that simply, that was the challenge for Johnson (01:17:05:00) Johnson’s period of adjustment back to civilian life lasted for roughly four years, right up until he went back to school (01:17:01:00) o Up until that point, Johnson did not have the faintest idea that he was capable of doing anything like that (01:17:39:00)  Eventually, someone in Grand Rapids put Johnson through a series of tests that said he was able to do it (01:17:45:00) While Johnson was still in the hospital, the women who had been coming to see him continued to do so and eventually, they decided to get married (01:18:15:00) o Johnson’s future wife visited for about four months while he was going through rehab before they decided to get married without telling her parents until the last minute (01:18:54:00) Johnson finally returned home to Greenville in either late 1945 or early 1946 (01:19:59:00) �  o Once he was finally home, Johnson went to work for his father, who was then working as a carpenter after he and Johnson’s mother had moved off their farm and into Greenville (01:20:22:00)  While Johnson was growing up during the Great Depression, apart from working on the family farm, his father also worked as a Bell Telephone repairman; having that little extra job was the difference between a family making or not making it during the depression (01:20:42:00)  Prior to Johnson’s father, both Johnson’s grandfather and greatgrandfather had worked as carpenters (01:20:58:00)  At the time, putting up wallpaper was extremely popular, so Johnson’s primary job was putting up the paste for the wallpaper apart with other odd jobs (01:21:12:00) o In the meantime, Johnson joined the VFW in Greenville, which had an influx of new membership following the war (01:21:31:00) o Eventually, Johnson and his wife bought their first house for only six thousand dollars (01:21:50:00) o Although he had a job and his family, Johnson was still floating around, not really know what he wanted to do with his life (01:22:17:00)  Eventually, someone suggested a counselor in nearby Grand Rapids who specialized in working with veterans, so Johnson made an appointment to talk with him (01:22:21:00)  During the appointment, Johnson went through a battery of different tests before the counselor told Johnson to come back in a couple of weeks, at which point (01:22:34:00)  When Johnson returned, the counselor informed him that he was capable of going to college and listed off several colleges that Johnson could choose from (01:22:47:00) Eventually, Johnson chose to go to Ferris State University, located in Big Rapids, Michigan and spent the next several years at the university (01:22:58:00) o While at the university, Johnson changed his mind several times about his major before finally settling on earning degrees in history and accounting (01:23:16:00) o Johnson ended up earning his degree in only three years because he elected to attend classes in the summer (01:23:42:00)  However, at the end of his third year, Johnson was called in and told there was a man looking to hire a principal and Johnson was up for an interview (01:23:481:00)  Johnson was initially hesitant but during the interview, the man told Johnson about the school and Johnson ended up taking the position, which was in Maple City, Michigan (01:24:02:00) Johnson took the job and after a couple of years, the school district decided to consolidate, so he spent three or four years working on consolidating three schools into one school (01:24:34:00) o Once the school were consolidated, the administrations from each of the three schools had to agree as to who would continue working for the newly-consolidate school (01:25:07:00) �  o Johnson began looking around for other jobs and eventually found a job working at another school, one that had never had a principal before (01:25:21:00)  Johnson interviewed for the job and was hired to the a principal in the Roscommon, Michigan school district, where he stayed for nine or ten years (01:25:47:00) o After Roscommon, took a job working in Bellaire, Michigan before returning home to Greenville when Johnson’s father died (01:20:01:00) o Eventually, the opportunity came along for Johnson to head up a Council For Aging Program, so he applied and received the position (01:26:29:00)  Johnson stayed in the position for eight or nine years before going into selling insurance; after a while, Johnson decided to start his own insurance company (01:27:02:00) o Eventually, Johnson came full circle and began working with his son, who was a contractor, doing construction work (01:27:37:00)  When he was eighty-three years old, Johnson ended up working with his son to build a house for their minister (01:27:51:00) During one of his times working as a principal, Johnson was not only the principal but the head of the local Chamber of Commerce; however, Johnson eventually told the local school board that it was a problem because he was constantly being called out of the school to deal with issues (01:28:27:00) o However, the school board wanted Johnson to keep the job, so he stayed on as both the principal and the head of the Chamber of Commerce (01:28:41:00) Doing the interviews for the project was hard for Johnson because he would try to pull back the memories and would inevitable miss some details, which he would then remember later on (01:29:31:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonE1347V2 Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Edward (Interview outline and video, 2 of 2), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Edward Description An account of the resource Edward Johnson was born in Greenville, Michigan in 1919, and was drafted into the Army in 1941. After training to be a mechanic at Camp Boyd, Texas, Johnson joined Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion 16th Infantry, 1st Infantry Division. He went to England with this unit in 1942, and stayed with it through campaigns in North Africa, Sicily, Normandy, the Hurtgen Forest, Battle of the Bulge and the invasion of Germany, ending up in Czechoslovakia when the war ended. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-28 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/01e4c64f0ddeafadce3ac1177a01fcf5.mp4 d34df26fe75546aedba3393e8f76fd38 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ca82835f3c4958be97225381343bfaac.pdf 1afaacf8951c3f7c810715f916a30fdc PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Donald Johnson (01:05:00) (00:10) Before Joining the Service • • • Donald went to South High school in Grand Rapids, MI It was a good school; they treated the few German and Japanese students well He enlisted because he had wanted to join the Navy and his dad and brother had both been in the Navy (1:30) First Days in Service • • • • • • It was strenuous, enjoyable, and different It was like a fun training camp They had to run everyday He first went to Great Lakes Boot Camp He was then off to sea on the USS President Polk on the Pacific Ocean He was shipped off immediately after boot camp (2:30) Most Memorable Time on Ship • Going through a typhoon; a lot of water crashed on top of the ship near Okinawa, but everyone was ok afterwards (3:05) Passing of Extra Time • • • He worked every day and played cards at night He was a clerk/secretary during the day, taking care of records for engineers Donald also helped with Court Martial records (4:00) Never Celebrated Holidays • • They were at sea when Roosevelt died; it was April at the time and they were just coming into Pearl harbor He did not receive any Christmas letters from his relatives until April (4:45) Life Without the Military • • He could have went to college instead, yet he is happy with the decisions he has made in the past Donald believes that everyone should spend some time in the service (5:20) Food • It was pretty good food, but it was all powdered �• • • • • No one liked the food at first, but they all got used to it They were able to consume three meals a day There was lots of sheep and mutton, which he hated He also did not like Australian food Every Wednesday they had beans for breakfast (6:10) Combat • • • • • He experienced combat three times They were disembarking troops in the Philippines with MacArthur Combat with troops in Okinawa There was also a Kamikaze attack near the Philippines They would constantly move troops around to avoid the Japanese (7:30) Change in World Perspective • • He was too young at the time to take in the whole experience He just wanted to get back to regular life (7:50) Friends in the Service • • He made good friends; he met Bob who became one of his best friends He would enlist all over again given the chance (8:35) Positive Experience • In the service, you experience growth very quickly (9:15) Living Quarters • They slept three deep, but it was comfortable (10:15) Post-War Life • • • Afterwards, he worked on the railroad He went to school for GM for six months, but he hated that He later went into the carpentry business, which was enjoyable because he liked building houses, it gave him a good life and a good living (11:15) The Last Days in the Service • • He was discharging US POWs in Chicago when he was released and then he came back to Grand Rapids The war was over and he was no longer needed (12:05) Pearl harbor • At the time he had been working a long shift at a truck store and heard of it on the news (12:45) Veterans Organizations/Activities �• • He has been part of the American Legion for 55 years He has attended two reunions for the ship, yet most men from that time are now dead (14:00) Going Over Pictures • • • Pictures of the luxury liner ship in 1940 Pictures of when he was in the Navy Going over various trips which there are pictures of (16:45) First Impressions of the Ship • • • It looked scary He has pictures of all the crew They crossed over the equator many times (19:20) 65 Years Ago • • • The war was long ago and he is very old now It is strange that so much time has passed since then He used to go with friends to Pearl Harbor to drink (22:00) Talking About Football and Basketball (23:00) Working on the Ship • • • • • • • They started at 8am every day Everyone worked seven days a week There was much help needed to run the ship and there was no such thing as a day off Donald only worked during the day He worked in an office because he was good at typing It was a good thing that he took that extra typing class in school otherwise he would have had to work in the engine room He had the most “cushy” job on the ship (26:00) The Dentist • There was a dentist on his ship, yet not many men had dental problems on his ship • When they met up with other ships those men needed lots of dental work and the dentist finally got something to do (26:40) The Surgeon • He only operated once on the ship because the men did not experience much combat (28:00) Don’s Special job • Every day he had to figure out how far the ship had traveled in miles • He had to calculate how much fuel and water they used • He would then turn his charts into an engineering officer • There was also a navigator that figured their traveling distance by the stars �• They had automatic steering on the ship, but it is still antique compared to today’s standards (31:50) Islands in the Middle of the Ocean • When they first spotted the various small islands, they always thought they were finally landing at an actual country • There are tons of small islands throughout the ocean that no one has ever heard of • No one lives on the islands • In the Pacific there is no thunder and no lightening, yet there are bad storms with lots of wind • New Guinea has lots of mountains (34:05) The Island of New Guinea • There are lots of people living in New Guinea [New Caledonia} • They speak French and it is near Australia • There was a bar in New Guinea they always went to, with really short ceilings and it was very smoky • He remembers weird things like that bar • Donald wonders what island people even do for a living because they would have to import everything except vegetables and livestock (36:30) Rubber • We needed rubber during the war; “that was what half the fight was over.” • They also needed silk; “you never hear of silk anymore.” • Women used to wear lots of silk • The Japanese had taken the rubber and silk away from us when they invaded all the small Pacific Islands • Donald does believe that rubber bands are even made from actual rubber anymore (38:15) Island Near Australia • There was lots of palm oil, like maple syrup • In Guam there were big plantations where they made soap and cream; they are probably not in business anymore • Everything is synthetic now; you never see rubber trees (40:00) Future Outlook • Everything moved so slow until the 19th century, now everything is so fast paced • Young people today will not see so much change, but anything could happen in the future (40:50) The Service • He never had anything against the service • He doesn’t remember anyone ever being afraid while they were there • They got up one hour before sunrise in the mornings to look for submarines • No one was scared of being hit by a submarine, they just wanted to spot them • Ground service in the Army would be frightening �(42:40) The “Blacks” • “Blacks” were a little strange • There were 26 black people on the ship, but they were segregated • They never saw them on the ship; they worked for officers and served food • They were a different culture at the time (43:45) Kamikazes • He was standing on the upper level of the ship with his friend Bob when Kamikazes started flying above them • One hit the ship right in front of them and knocked lots of people into the water • The next one missed and landed in the water; it was not hard to miss a ship • It was like watching a bomb coming at you; there was nowhere to go (44:55) The Philippines • There were very different people there; they did not know anything; they were like animals • They did not take baths or brush their teeth; it was a hard thing to see • They ate food from the trees and did not wear any clothes (46:40) New Guinea • No one wore clothes there; it was like a “porn show” • The women were not allowed to wear shirts because the sunshine protected them from TB (47:30) The Service Today • It is so advanced; it’s a whole different world • Donald does not know if it is worse or better • It seems impossible that we were once in the Dark Ages and people had the plague • We were barbarians; history is hard to comprehend; there were so many wars in the past • The king of England set up the Magna Carta and then there were normal governments • Donald does not understand how people lived like that in the past � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JohnsonD Title A name given to the resource Johnson, Donald (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Johnson, Donald Description An account of the resource Donald Johnson served in the Navy during WW II. He traveled mostly aboard a luxury ship that had been remodeled into a Navy ship. Johnson's crew traveled throughout the Pacific to Australia, Guam, and the Philippines. Johnson experienced combat three times while in the Pacific and also discussed his experience with Japanese Kamikazes. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Sayfie, Aaron (Interviewer) Forest Hills Eastern High Schools (Ada, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Veterans Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-05-19 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/64cb0b6055503f44c5449522ebc5e985.mp4 30097b5cb4425469f267212c5cb18bb6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9aa8ab1611c614b0ca4221e4668dcd56.pdf f4d9d8e355e3b89f3143b2178c76e7e5 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW ROBERT HAYHURST Born: Resides: Interviewed by: Maxine Sarafino, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, February 18, 2014 Interviewer: My name is Robert Edward Hayhurst. Interviewer: My name is Maxine Serafino and I’ll be interviewing Robert Hayhurst today for Lake Michigan College. We’re doing this for the Library of Congress and the Lest We Forget group. Interviewer: Robert, could you tell me about your family, where you grew up, and siblings? I was born in Waukesha, Wisconsin on February 2, 1943. I’m the oldest of four children; I have a brother Richard, a sister Carol and a sister Janet. Most of our childhood was spent in northwestern Wisconsin, in New Richmond, Wisconsin and I graduated from high school there. After graduation from high school I attended the University of Wisconsin Stout in Menominee, Wisconsin 1:03 Interviewer: Did you graduated from there? Yes Interviewer: What degree? A degree in industrial technology, the Vietnam War was going on and the draft was on everyone’s minds, and I decided to enlist in the army and pursue activities as a special agent in the military intelligence. 1 �Interviewer: Why the army? I guess—my father was a first sergeant in WWII. I had an uncle that was killed in Italy in WWII, but mainly, I guess, because of the military intelligence that I wanted to get into. That field as opposed to--most of my friends and colleagues, at the time, were being drafted and sent right to the infantry. 2:01 Interviewer: What years did you serve? 1966 – 1969, and after basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, I was sent to Fort Holabird, Maryland—Baltimore, Maryland and the intelligence training right there at Fort Holabird. Interviewer: How long did that take? I was about a five month course, almost twenty-four hours a day, in all aspects of intelligence from information gathering, to counter intelligence, to interrogations, to just a lot of different areas of intelligence. From there, the graduating class, which was, and consisted of a hundred and nine, a third was army. 3:04 Another third were marines, and then there was a smattering of civilian intelligence from the National Security Agency, the State Department, some naval intelligence personnel, because this was thee military intelligence training school that the government had. Interviewer: Did you get any survival type training? Yes, a little bit, but not much. Intelligence, at that time, we’re talking forty-two years ago, or forty-three years ago, you’re put into lots of different types of units, so they had to train you for different things. Some were combat units, doing intelligence work for a certain unit. 4:03 I guess I was very fortunate, in my three year career in the army. Following graduation from the intelligence school, I was sent to Germany. The cold war 2 �was still going on; I spent a year in Stuttgart, Germany at the 66th Military Intelligence Group Headquarters outside of Stuttgart. There the intelligence in Germany at the time, Europe, all of Europe, was counteracting intelligence efforts from the Russians and from the East Germans. There was, at that time, offensive intelligence and counter intelligence, and then in counter intelligence there was offensive counter intelligence and defensive counter intelligences. 5:00 How you’re dealing with the enemy and how you are throwing off their plans, and then how you’re protecting you own personnel, or your own units by providing good background investigations for security clearances and that sort of thing. That was one type that was going on in Germany. At the end of 1967, I volunteered, because the war was going on and I wanted a little different kind of action, I volunteered for a transfer to Vietnam. I was sent to Vietnam and there I was, after an initiation period, or a period of, I guess, being familiar with the country and what was happening in Vietnam, I was sent up to Hue, the city of Hue, to be a member of a five man team, military intelligence team, which was the 1st Battalion of the 525th MI Group. 6:05 Hue is an old imperial city about sixty Kilometers south of the demilitarized zone. The five man unit, we lived in a house, an old French provincial house, upstairs were our bedrooms and downstairs were our offices. We were probably three, or four, blocks from the local MACV compound, a military compound, we were given civilian identification, United States civilian identification, not part of the military, because we were doing a lot of other types of intelligence work over there. Primarily gathering intelligence about the enemy, about the Vietcong and about the North Vietnamese troops that we infiltrating. 7:00 But, at the same time we’re doing intelligence work, counter intelligence work for our military. All ranks, high officers, full colonels and on down, anyone needing security 3 �clearance has to get these background investigations and our unit would provide that also. So, the way the military is, in the rank and file, when we were sent to an artillery unit, or infantry unit, or whatever, and you had to interview, or investigate a member of the unit to update their clearance, sometimes we had to wear different uniforms. Sometimes we had to wear a captain's uniform, or a major's uniform, lieutenant's uniform, sometimes just a sergeant's uniform. 8:03 Interviewer: So you fit in more? So the people we are talking with are more comfortable. There were a number of high ranking army officers that would not want to talk to a sergeant or a lowly lieutenant, so then we had to put a different uniform on, a different ID, and they felt comfortable then, they wouldn’t want to talk to someone low anyway. Interviewer: What did you think of Vietnam when you got there? You’d been in Germany. This was a whole different experience, intelligence wise a whole different experience, but that part of Vietnam was culturally very interesting. The city of Hue was the—it meant a great deal to the South Vietnamese and to the North Vietnamese. 9:00 The University of Hue was there, leaders from both the north and the south were graduates of the University of Hue. It would be like years ago in our Civil War where members of the south and members of the north both graduated from West Point together, and that’s what the University of Hue had in common with those folks, and the old imperial city with the Citadel and the seat of power for the rulers of the time. It was a very interesting city, very compacted, maybe a hundred and fifty thousand people living in an area much 4 �smaller than—much, much smaller than Benton Harbor, or St. Joseph, but anyway, it was very interesting, very interesting. Interviewer: Is that what you did most of your time there? 10:00 Yes, until the Tet Offensive broke out, the 1968 Tet Offensive. Part of my function before the Tet Offensive was work with Australian troops, Korean troops, and of course, our own units and South Vietnamese units in the area. We were the first unit that would do interrogation of captured NVA soldiers, or NVA soldiers that defected. With the help of interpreters we would interrogate them for information. Interviewer: Were they brought to you where you were at? How did that work? We were brought to them, they were being held in confinement and we were brought to them to get as much information as we could about why they were there and what was happening on their side, and then turn that information over to authorities. 11:01 The units that needed that information. It was a real different mixed experience in the intelligence services in Vietnam, much different than Germany, much different, because you’re fighting a different—there’s a different purpose, there’s a different enemy, there’s a different kind of action, you know. Also, we were involved in—because of the civilian identification that we had, we were being posed as American advisors to the South Vietnamese government, helping them build bridges and roads, improving their crops and better rice and all those different things, that was our cover, but we were there for intelligence purposes. I’m not giving away any secrets, this was a—I’m sure it has changed greatly since then. 12:00 The effort of the intelligence service, you know, very interesting. 5 �Interviewer: Anything else happen while you were there? How did it go? You had your job to do. I had a chance to visit a lot of different units in that I Corps of South Vietnam, up to Khe Sanh, up to Quang Tri, those are quite remote units , or areas, and there were some battles and things that took place while I was visiting for a couple of days doing jobs in Khe Sanh. They were invaded. Interesting, you were flown in up there and flown back in various size planes, not helicopters, fixed wing aircraft. A lot of our other travels were through—Air America would take us around in small planes. 13:01 Interviewer: What was Air America? It was a government funded, sponsored, type of civilian air unit. Small planes, two and four passenger planes that could take off and land very quickly, very powerful, could take off on a short runway not much longer than this room, and just get airborne and travel, you know, as opposed to helicopters. They must have contracted, contracted with our government to do this sort of thing, shuttle individuals around. At the end of January 1968, we were all caught by surprise when the 1968 Tet Offensive hit. Would you like to hear a little bit about that from my perspective? 14:03 It all started the evening of, as I remember, January 30th, or early in the morning of the 31st. Leading up to that, most every night--our house is in the city, on the western bank of the river, the new part of the city, and a half mile, or maybe a quarter mile from the actual outskirts of Hue, we’d hear machine gun fire and mortar fire almost every night for a while. It was NVA units interacting without either our military or the South Vietnamese military, but it’s very commonplace, except that particular night it started and didn’t let up. 15:01 It kept on all night long and more and more guns and all of a sudden some planes were activated. 6 �Normally, planes weren’t activated, but the planes were activated, South Vietnamese aircraft and American aircraft trying to repel the enemy. When daybreak hit early in the morning of January 31st, our bedrooms were on the second floor and we look outside and we see columns of troops, North Vietnamese army troops, walking up the street, just like they own the street. I thought, ―Oh man, we’re behind enemy lines already‖, you know, and the platoon took a position at the corner up the block at an intersection. You could tell they were not Vietcong, they were units of the NVA and how they were dressed. 16:06 They had branches of--tree branches and stuff stuck in their helmets and backpacks. We were five men in this unit, and we just waited for them to contact, or interact, with us and right next door there was a naval intelligence unit with four men there, so we joined forces in their house. There were nine of us and when the North Vietnamese troops started going house to house getting everybody out, whether you’re South Vietnamese or Americans like we were, we resisted and we pooled our weapons together. We didn’t have that many weapons, a few boxes of hand grenades and fourteen rifles, 45 caliber pistols, and three, or four, 45 caliber sub machine guns. 17:09 We also had some phosphorus grenades. We were in a pretty big house, a concrete type of house now, and it had a third floor and we fought from the third floor. We destroyed our intelligence files by dropping phosphorus grenades into our file cabinets and melting those. Some of the fellows decided to keep their civilian ID’s. I did and another fellow said, ―No, we’ll put our military ID’s on‖, so we put our dog tags on and destroyed the fake cover ID’s and kept our military ID’s. 18:04 I figured that if we were going to be killed, or captured, I’d just go out as United States Army. We fought them off that day, different surges they made and two of the fellows were killed. All night long, of just 7 �sporadic firing all night long of January 31st, and then the 1st of February, in the morning, late morning, we ran out of ammunition and we had to surrender. We had killed a number of their men and they killed two of ours. We had a number of injured, three injured. 19:03 It’s a scary feeling when--we’re on the third floor, going downstairs not knowing what’s ahead of you, you know, if you’re going to be shot on the spot, or what. All they knew is we were Americans, they didn’t know what our roles were; I don’t think they knew what our roles were, but we’re the enemy, we’re Americans. They took us down the street, three or four blocks behind the houses, because they had to protect us, because the South Vietnamese and the American forces were fighting to get that part of the city back, so they had to protect us and they put us in a house. A house they occupied, a pretty good size house, and the house was occupied by Phillip Manhart. 20:00 He was a federal service officer for the state department and was a very—the highest ranking state department official in that part of Vietnam. He had been captured some time before; anyway, we spent that day in that house. That night six of us in a shower, a six by six shower tied up with communication wire holding our elbows back, you know, tied at the elbows. They took our boots away from us and that was it. The next day, on the 2nd of February, the night of the 2nd, they took us out of town under the cover of darkness. 21:00 But, all the time we were in that house there are dive bombers from our Air Force and marines and the South Vietnamese Air Force, fighting in that part of the city, so they had to protect us from being shot by our own people, you know. They marched us out of town, the evening of the 2nd, my birthday, my twenty fifth birthday, and under dark, obviously. We were barefoot, arms tied behind our backs, and we marched out, I’m guessing it was to the west. I thought to the west and north of Hue, 8 �through some fields, roads, we had to cross a river, they put us in boats and took us across the river. 22:00 Bombing and shelling is going on all the time and they knew where to take us so we wouldn’t get shelled, or bombed, by our own forces that night. We went through some villages and we spent the next day in a little village, and we’d sleep in the day and march at night until they got us into the foothills west of Hue. A few more days march and we made it to a camp in the lower part of the mountains that was a staging area for the North Vietnam army coming into South Vietnam, and sort of a hospital unit for their wounded, you know. By that time they had gathered twenty-six of us two civilians, two ladies, one was a doctor, and one was a school teacher from Holland, Michigan. They had been over there five, or six, years in their civilian work, being a medical doctor, or a teacher in a South Vietnamese school, but they’re foreigners and they got picked up. 23:03 There was a French Canadian that did not speak English, he was from Montreal, and there were a number of civilian contractors from the Pacific Architects and Engineers that were captured. They were builders and different things and they were captured, and then there were Marines and Army personnel that made up the twenty-six of us all totaled. Some were injured, four, or five, were injured pretty badly. After two weeks in this camp, with interrogations every day, they finally found an English speaking person to come down from Hanoi that could speak English and talk to us. We could communicate with our guards by the limited knowledge of the language of Vietnamese that we knew, but for the most part when we really wanted to communicate with our guards that were holding us, they spoke French. 24:01 Some of our personnel had French in high school, French language training, so we spoke French until this English speaking person came. Then the interrogations got a little stiffer, and it 9 �was something, because of my training, we just knew that this is part of the game, you know. We were interrogating there men, so it was something we expected. After two weeks at that camp they gave us our boots back, and the twenty-one healthiest ones, they put us on a march heading straight west to Laos. They told us that this march was going to take ten to twelve days and we got a gunny sack with twenty pounds of rice to carry on our back and we set out. 25:01 Now we’re in the jungle and in this jungle we’re traveling at night and it was up hills, craters and river and everything else we’re crossing heading towards Laos. We’re going to the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Laos and then they were going to take us north and then into North Vietnam--North Vietnam to continue on the Ho Che Minh Trail and then eventually to Hanoi. Well, after four days of that march another fellow and me, Edward Dearing, who’s a member of our office, of our unit, we decided to make a run for it and escape. We talked to all of the other twenty-one to see if they wanted to come with us. Civilians, no, some were injured; some didn’t know how to swim, some were afraid and said, ―Well, we’ll take our chances, and they may release us in a couple months‖. 26:04 They said, ―The war’s going a certain direction and let’s not endanger ourselves, let’s just see what happens. We’ll be captives and we’ll be released in a few months‖. That’s what they kept telling us, ―You’ll be released, you’ll be released‖, but I was worried, because of my intelligence training and my job, and what we knew about the other units in the whole area that it wouldn’t be a good experience to be seriously interrogated. So, we got the blessing of our appointed commanders, ―Yes, go ahead, it’s your duty to escape‖. We took off right after breakfast, if you call it breakfast, the morning of the 23rd of February. 27:00 The daily routine on the march is such that we’re on these trails going through the jungle, the mountainous jungle, we’re in 10 �the mountains now, and the trails are not any more than, maybe, six feet wide and it’s a thick jungle wall on both sides. In this march, two, or three, times a day they would have us get off the trail. Get off the trail and sit in the bushes and just wait, because the North Vietnamese units are going the other direction and this is one of their highways we’re on, and the North Vietnamese troops are going the other direction. They’re looking at us and we’re looking at them. They’re carrying their weapons and they’ve got, in some cases, women and children carrying rockets for them, and mortars. We get off the trail and let them pass and we keep going the other direction, you know. 28:00 They’ve been doing this for years and they know how to work, so they—early in the morning they’ll start a campfire covered by a hutch that they make of branches and leaves, and everything else, to hide the smoke, and they’ll cook enough rice for that meal and to make rice balls the size of a big snowball. That’s your breakfast in the morning, a bowl of rice with a little rock salt, and you pack another ball in leaves and carry that with you and stop halfway through the day and that’s your lunch too. At nighttime, when it gets dark, you stop walking and they build another fire and cook rice for the night time, and that’s what the twenty pounds of rice that everybody had to carry was for. There had to be enough rice for all of us to get to the next camp, which was I don’t know how many miles away in North Vietnam. 29:00 We did not wait for that, after the 23rd of February, after that first meal, we’re down by a creek washing our utensils and the guards, they’re washing their utensils, and we’ve been captured now for over three weeks and we’re way inside enemy territory, and I think they knew that if we tried to escape someone will pick us up, someone will recapture us, shoot us, whatever, you know. They didn’t really have to worry about us like they did early on. There were a number of us washing our utensils by 11 �the creek and the guard turned the other way and went back around the bushes to his campsite, or packing things up to move on that morning. We took off in the other direction down the trail and got to this river we had crossed the day before. 30:01 We jumped in the river, swam across, got on the bank on the other side, and we just didn’t move for about two hours, it seemed like quite a long time, to see if anyone was following us. No one followed us, so then we crept back down to the river. This is a river that’s fifty, maybe a hundred feet across, a fast moving river out of the mountains, cold, but flowed very fast, so we got in the river and floated on the river out of the mountains. We knew that pilots, back then, that were shot down in Vietnam were told to get to the seacoast and you’ll be picked up at the seacoast. Planes are up and down the seacoast and they’ll find survivors that way, so we figured, ―Well, our best chance is to get to the seacoast‖. Vietnam, being a narrow country, parallel, right along the ocean there, and all rivers flow to the sea, so well just ride this river to the sea, you know, that was our idea. 31:02 We floated out of the mountains, stopped about every hour, or hour and a half, just to warm up a little bit and pick leaches off of us, rest a little bit, and then get back in and keep floating down. Towards the end of that day, almost dark, we heard some noise ahead of us and it was a North Vietnamese Army unit back off that river, oh, maybe fifty yards, or so. They were near the river, but not on the river, but we could hear them and we peeked up so we could see them, so we stayed in the water and floated real slowly by the back where they couldn’t see us. We were on their side, because if we were on the other side they could see us. 32:00 So, we went past them and kept on going and the river started getting slower and slower and wider and wider, and we spotted a road on the other side of the river with a lot of American boot prints all 12 �over it, fresh boot prints. We swam across the river and looked it over and said, ―We’ve kind of had it with the river‖. We were really cold and this is February and cold temperatures and everything, of course, and we decided to walk that road and see where that took us. I’m not sure, a couple of miles maybe and we got to a Marine outpost, an artillery outpost. We didn’t know it was Marines, we just could hear, we could hear Americans talking in the dark, and the dusk, we didn’t know who they were, but they were Americans, so we thought, ―Well let’s just walk into this unit and see what it is‖. 33:02 It was a Marine military artillery unit and we were lucky again, because we—one fellow stopped us and said, ―What are you doing here? You just walked right through a mine field to get to us. They just had a big killing zone‖, and we said, ―We were just following the boot prints‖, and he said, ―We put those there for a purpose‖. We missed all these mines. These posts, out in the countryside where these units were, they had their rows of tents and their different buildings, there communications and their soldiers units and whatever. 34:01 But, then they had a fence with machine gun units all around and then they had their artillery guns pointed in various directions and then they had this big, almost a hundred yards of killing zone, all cleared, so that anybody coming, they could certainly see them and they were hidden, anybody had to come across that open field to— and that was called a killing zone. That’s what—we walked right through it on this road. The other fellow and myself were both the same, six foot three, so we didn’t not look like an indigenous Vietnamese person. We stood as tall as we could, so they could see who we were, and we had beards. They let us come right in and we made it. 35:00 We figured-we talked with the commanding officer, a young Captain, we looked at aerial photos of the whole area and he kind of new the river we were on and he had aerial 13 �photos at his disposal. We were there a couple three days, because they were so far out in the area that they did not—they had not had a meal in a week and they were down to two C rations a day, they were getting low on ammunition, and it was so far out that the, in that time in February, that the air cover, I mean the cloud cover, was so low that their supplies, they wouldn’t fly them in to them, because it was so dangerous, they had to fly so low. So, we had to wait three days before someone came to pick us up and fly us out of there. 36:00 We got to know those fellows pretty well and he figured we were very close, if not in Laos, very close to Laos when we escaped. We had to make our way across the northern part of South Vietnam and I’m guessing it was thirty-five to forty miles that we traveled, you know, before we found this unit. Interviewer: How did they treat you when you were on your march? Oh, there were only four armed guards and the English speaking leader—good, they didn’t beat us, or anything else. They were—they helped us get across various rivers, they knew, obviously, where they were going and how long it would take us. 37:04 The one river we escaped in, we had to cross that river, we crossed that river the day before we escaped. They kept warning us about that river, but they said, ―Don’t worry, we’ll help you get across, we’ll carry the rice for you across the river‖, and it was deep, wide and no bridges, except they had a bridge. Their bridge was a steel cable about three, or four feet below the water, tight, all the way across the water, under the water. Part of it was a log and part of it was some cable and then there was a cable about a foot above the water that you couldn’t see from the air. You hung onto that cable, the water is up to about your waist and you just went along on that bridge underneath the water and that’s how they went across, that’s how the troops went back and forth, so a little bit of 14 �engineering out there to keep it camouflaged. 38:00 They were helpful and did their job. You know, I thank my lucky stars that we were captured by the North Vietnamese as opposed to the Vietcong that was in the area, because they did not take prisoners. These we were captured by professional soldiers, young, they were younger, some were, I’m guessing, were seventeen, eighteen, twenty years old, but they were very organized and very professional in their job, you know. Interviewer: What were your accommodations like when you were with them, traveling? You sleep out I the open, raining, cold, on the ground. 39:00 And three of us slept together, front to back, front to back on the ground and about every hour we would rotate and put another person in the middle and we would take turns on the outside and keep doing that, because it was so cold at night. Thirty-five to forty degrees was the average night time temperature up in the mountains and raining lots of times, so you’re just shivering and shivering and wet. The guards had little tents, hammocks that they would put between the trees, but we’re on the ground, we’d just lie on the ground. In that three plus week period, I went from two hundred and fifteen pounds to a hundred and fifty five pounds when I checked into the first hospital they took us to. 40:02 I had a wound on my foot, infection, but you were burning so many calories and that’s where—the rice didn’t help you and just keeping warm you’re burning calories, so that’s where the weight loss came. The movement and then you’re just cold and shivering, so your body is trying to generate heat. That’s what I thought was why we were losing weight so fast, and you didn’t drink water, you didn’t dare drink their water. In the evening they would finish cooking the rice, we all shared the big pot, took turns, all of us, guards, captives, all 15 �captives shared and when the rice was done they’d fill it up with water and throw in a few handfuls of tea leaves and boil it, and then we all drank that tea, you know, because we figured it was going to be safe then. 41:00 the guards said, ―Don’t drink the water, wait until we cook this rice and make the tea, then drink the tea‖, so that’s the only water we had. Interviewer: Did you have dysentery or anything like that? No, I don’t know what you call it, I think it was very common, at least I did and a few others, and I did not have a bowel movement for sixteen days. I’m sure part of it’s the emotion and part of it’s the—I’m guessing your body might have shut down a little bit, or whatever, but didn’t ever have the urge to go. You’re eating this rice and that’s the only medical problem, that and the infection. 42:02 Interviewer: How did you get the infection in your foot? By walking on the rocks and different things, back when we first left town. Interviewer: Before they gave your boots back? Yes, before they gave our boots back for that long march. They marched us for three, or four, days barefoot, because they didn’t want you to escape, you know. Interviewer: where did you go from there, after you got picked up from the Marines? Yes, they kept on calling the Marines to come and get us, because that was a marine unit and they wouldn’t come to get us, so this young captain said, ―Well, to heck with that noise‖, and they called a unit of the 101st Airborne, army, and these guys said, ―We’ll be right over‖, so they came right over, picked the two of us up, brought their mail for them, brought big bags of mail that the unit hadn’t had for a week, or so, or a couple of weeks, 16 �and they brought some rations for them, just as if they were a marine unit. 43:02 there was a lady, a Vietnamese lady that was in the camp, I’m not sure what her job was, but she got a ride with us when we left and they took us to Phu Bai, a military unit that was close, a compound that was close. In the 101st Airborne group, was a helicopter, it was a gunship, had room enough for us, the three of us, in the middle of it, the doors were open with a door gunner and the pilot and co-pilot up front. They picked us up and I thought they were going to fly us straight to Phu Bai about ten miles away. I’m just guessing that’s where, but no, these fellows were flying just above the trees and zigzagging back and forth, back and forth, so I said, ―What are you guys doing? Why aren’t we going straight?‖ Well, they were just looking for some action and I thought, ―That’s pretty good‖, the Marines didn’t want to come in there, but This army group thought they would just have a little fun that day. 44:04 We didn’t see anything, but we got there and got put into a hospital. Members of our unit, we were all part of the same group, and they started debriefing us. We took showers, of course, and all that for the first time, and we slept with tape recorders for a couple nights there, and tape recorders were running all the time in case we mumbled something, or whatever, you know, debriefing us. Then we went from there to Da Nang for a day or so, and then to another hospital and from there we got flown down to Saigon. That was another couple weeks down there in the hospital at Long Binh. Interviewer: What was the main reason they had you hospitalized so much? Was it weight loss? 45:00 Weight loss and infection and everything else, yeah, and checking us out thoroughly, plus the debriefing. The debriefing took a good couple of weeks, you know, constantly going 17 �over and over what we saw, describing everyone, all of our captors, the people that were captured with us, obviously their names, everything we knew about them, our captors, what the NVA was like, how many, who they were and even markings. It was just so much information to give, there was an awful lot and maybe we were trained to be very observant, I don’t know--routes, and buildings and everything to be helpful, just to be helpful, you know. We finally got that report finished and mine was twenty-eight pages. 46:02 I had to read it and It was single spaced and twenty-eight pages and they had to go through and proof it, and proof it, to make sure they got it right and then sign it. Interviewer: What did you do after that? They gave us a choice and they said, the Army--and we met some high ranking officials and stuff , because we, at the time, 1968, they told us we were the tenth and eleventh prisoners to escape in the whole history of the war. That’s all, from the time it started, heavily started, back in the early sixties, you know, so we were kind of the oddities there. They came in one day and said, ―You’re going to get a choice, the choice of an assignment in Vietnam, or the choice of assignment anywhere else in the world‖. 47:03 they knew I came from Germany and the other fellow, he was assigned in the states, I think it was in Portland, Oregon, so he said, ―You get three choices, give me your three choices right now‖, and I said, ―I’ll take Milwaukee, Wisconsin, as my first choice, Chicago second, and Minneapolis/St. Paul the third, my family was close and all that. Okay, they took right down and the other fellow says, ―Portland, Oregon, Portland, Oregon, Portland, Oregon‖, and he was from New Jersey, but anyway, so we got our first choices. They shipped us back and I had a year or so, a year and a half, a year and four months to go before I was—my three years were up. So, I’m back in the army again and 18 �I’m in the Milwaukee field office. It was an eight man unit there, civilian clothes and because I was coming in they had to kick somebody else out of that office and send them someplace else. 48:07 One of the civilians I would guess—so that year in the United States military intelligence was another whole different picture that I was not familiar with, so I got to see three different types of intelligence operations. I thought I was very fortunate, you know, Europe was different, the war zone was different in Vietnam, and now we’re in the United States and very interesting. It came down to the end ,in 1969, to get released and then they made me big offers to stay in, you know, re-up bonus money and the choice of assignments, more schooling, and much more rank. 49:02 I said, ―No‖, so I left the military in 1969 and went back to Stout, to Wisconsin Stout and got a master degree in communications technology and got married and started having children and ended up here in Michigan. Interviewer: Did you know about the war protests going on over here when you were in Vietnam? Yes, we saw it going over. When I flew to Vietnam we left from the Oakland army base near San Francisco. There was a lot of protesting done there and that was in 1967. When we came back from Vietnam we landed in San Francisco—a big three hundred passenger, both trips, over and back, a big three hundred passenger commercial airline we were on and most of them were military people that were on there. 50:07 They were in uniform, all services, all ranks, and some civilians. To and from Vietnam, we stopped in Hawaii, and that kind of thing, we stopped in Guam, you know, and we came back to San Francisco, the plane lands out on the tarmac, not up at the terminal, but out on the tarmac. We walked down the stairs and across—a couple of hundred yards across to the terminal, 19 �and the airline people said, ―Now, when you get to the terminal, when you walk in that gate, expect to find an awful lot of people there, protesters and stuff, stay away from them. We’ll have guards lines up and ropes, so you stay within the ropes, don’t get over them‖, so sure enough, we—and there were fifty, or so. 51:02 For every plane coming in, that was their job, to harass the troops. We were getting spit at, yelled at, and stuff thrown at us, signs, you know, but spitting mostly. I’m walking in and I have my uniform on—I’m walking in with a bunch of other fellow that I don’t know what— Marines and Army and stuff, and I thought these guys—these guys were hardened killers and just served a year in Vietnam, in their units, and I thought, ―Jeez, I wonder if these protesters really know how close—these guys wouldn’t think twice, if they were touched, or grabbed, of turning around and attacking them, eliminating them with their bare hands, not with guns‖. 52:12 But, how dangerous for those protesters it could be—you know, these fellows coming back from a war zone, they’re—they have a whole different outlook on life, because they’ve been, for the most part, killing people for a year. Some of the jobs, not all of them, but some of them were like that. Anyway, that was really hard to listen to, you know I think because of our experience, we were given a month off before we were to report to our next assignment in Milwaukee, so I went home and I don’t even know what happened to that month. 53:00 You just came from the experience I had and what really happened, and I’m here, I’m back home, sitting in my parents living room and watching TV at night getting the update on the war and the war is still going on. Walter Cronkite is showing the battle for Hue every night and how they’re trying to recapture the city and I was just there. I was just in all that sort of stuff, you know, a few weeks before and it just—―What just happened to my life?‖ That’s what you think. 20 �Anyway, you report to Milwaukee in a month and I had a real good assignment there. My commanding officer was a fellow that had just returned from Vietnam in a different military intelligence unit, so we had a lot in common and we got along great. 54:04 It was a good experience, it really was. Interviewer: Do you think you might have had an advantage, being older than the average eighteen? Maybe, being twenty-five, yeah, I don’t know, just—probably. Interviewer: How do you feel about that whole experience, now, looking back over the years? How has it affected your life? Well, I think it’s had a pretty good outlook, I mean I had a—I think from my perspective, in the jobs I’ve had, I see co-workers getting very, very frustrated, or uptight, or have high levels of anxiety in their jobs to get the job done right, and worrying about this, or this, I never had that. 55:08 I thought, ―Gosh, what we’re worrying about here on our job is not a life or death situation, we’ve got more things to worry about than that‖, and I think that helped me prepare, take me through the day, and the months. I was a professional educator. The last twelve years I worked, I was the assistant superintendent of schools and you’re dealing with boards of education and all types of things on a professional level, and the stress level is high, but I never let it bother me, not a bot, you know. So, I think it probably helped me. Interviewer: Did your family do anything special when you came home? 56:00 My dad was an old first sergeant, very, very tough and had served in the army in the invasion of North Africa and ended up in Sicily, in Naples, Pala Naples, and yeah, there were some parties in the town, the small town I was from, some nice parties and stuff. 21 �57:10 Excuse me—but up until about five years ago, my mother and father were the only ones that said, ―Welcome home‖. I think there was some other-- maybe high school--some of my friends might have said ―Welcome home‖, but no one else did, you know. Yeah, there were some nice—in that month I was home there were a few events and they wanted me to speak and it was difficult for me to speak. 58:00 Over the course of my professional career I was asked to speak a couple different times to high school classes, history classes, and maybe a few others, but there I’m talking to some students, high school students, about ancient history. They weren’t even born yet, let alone and that’s—it would be like the interest I might have had as a kid in the 1st WW, or the Spanish American War. It happened decades ago, so it meant nothing to them, you know, they just had to sit there and listen to this guest speaker who came in, that the teacher got in , but some kids were interested and some asked good questions, but I guess that, you know. Like I said, I had a year to go in the army yet and had to get back in the game, you had an obligation to do. 59:05 About that time, in Milwaukee, we were having some riots, there were riots here in Detroit. There were riots, if you want to call them riots, in Chicago at the 1968 presidential convention. Being an intelligence unit, civilian clothes, we had to come over and help the units that were over here in Detroit and Chicago. I was assigned to guard, but not really guard, because the secret service was also in that game, but to be on the outskirts of a lot of the action in the crowd, and assigned to Senator Musky while he was in and around Chicago. These were all the jobs the military was providing, working with the FBI office and the secret service offices. :09 In the riots in Milwaukee, about Martin Luther King’s death and in Detroit with the burnings and stuff, we had to go over and help those units out. The intelligence unit is 22 �not very big, you know eight or ten men and that’s it, there’s not a whole company of them, so you’re questioning all kinds of people, and taking pictures--all these ―rebel rousers‖ from out of town that would bust in there to cause the trouble--from the south, or wherever they were coming from. We had to identify these people, and in essence something that was changed because of that, shortly after that, and the Ellsberg Papers, we were spying on American citizens and the military had to stop that, as a result of those kinds of actions. 1:00 Students for Democratic Society, we had to keep an eye on that group that were in the various colleges, and Madison, Wisconsin was a big, another big group over there. I mean, it—the country was going through quite a change, you know, with these protests and the whole bit. I guess from an experience level, it was really something to be a part of it, just trying to do what you’re told to do, and now that’s all changed, history and the operation policies all changed and the military can’t do that anymore. Now it’s civilian agencies that are in charge of that, not the military. Interviewer: Anything else you would like to talk about your experience in Vietnam? 2:00 Five years later, May of 1973, I get an invitation, beautiful calligraphy, an invitation to the White House for dinner. I was married then, two kids then, and the government flew my wife and I out for five days in Washington DC, dinner at the White House with the President, and all the ex-prisoners that were released in February and March from Hanoi were there and there were close to six hundred ex-prisoners and their wives, or their girlfriends, or their mothers. The State Department put this big function on, and like I said, it was four or five, days we were there. 3:00 We were at the State Department for some real nice meetings with the President and Secretary Kissinger, a lot of military 23 �officials and then we were at various functions at the place we were staying. The put us up in the Washington Hilton, and the other big hotels, because there were so many people, we’re talking fourteen, fifteen hundred people, counting the spouses, or whatever. I got to meet the fellows I was captured with, the ones that survived. Three were killed, died on the trail, heading to Hanoi. None of the group I was with was kept in Hanoi, the famous ―Hanoi Hilton‖. The intelligence team members that I was with were kept about sixty miles north of Hanoi, in a small village. 4:07 Five years and two months, with two to three years, each one of them, in solitary confinement and no contact with any other Americans. All of them had real bad intestinal problems from the food and disease and whatever else, and mental problems. It was good to see them; they didn’t know that we had made it, so we had some nice parties with those folks and their wives, and stuff. We were told, when they got on the planes in Hanoi to be sent back, one of the first things they said was ―What ever happened to Hayhurst, whatever happened to Hayhurst?‖ They said, ―He made it back, he made it out‖, and they were real happy. 5:03 I got to talk with them and I said, ―When we left that morning and took off, what did yo folks do? What really happened to the rest of you?‖ he said, ―The guards didn’t know you were gone until later in the afternoon‖, because this is a long skinny trail going up and all over and they can’t keep track of the twenty-one of us spread out, maybe, over three hundred yards probably, and they can’t see—and they weren’t counting or whatever, you know. We’d been together with them for how many days then, and they weren’t worried about any of us attacking tem, or escaping, so the guards were real lax. They said, ―No, they didn’t know you were gone until later in the day and we’d taken your bags of rice and divvied it out, so there was nothing left‖, so they covered for us, but 24 �they were told that we were finally captured by another unit on the trail and executed immediately, so nobody else try it. 6:06 That is the story they were told, but they were tickled to death that we made it. We’ve been in contact over the years, and it’s been a very good association. All the ex POW’s from Vietnam, once a year, have a—you go to the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida for a physical, and there’s been data collected on these six hundred—now there’s probably five hundred and fifty left, because some have passed away, from all services. You don’t all go together and you have a whole year to get down there and go through a three, or four, day physical, where they’re collecting information on mental and physical conditions, so they have a big research study, so the fellows that I knew, we try to time ourselves, so we can get there at the same time and have some fun for the week and go back home, and that’s been a nice experience. Interviewer: Anything else? No, I can’t think of anything. Interviewer: Thank you You’re welcome 7:30 25 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hayhurst, Robert (Interview transcript and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hayhurst, Robert Description An account of the resource Robert Hayhurst was born in Wisconsin in 1943. After completing college, he enlisted in the Army in 1966 and trained in military intelligence. He was initially posted to Germany, but requested a transfer to Vietnam in 1967. He was assigned to a military intelligence unit based in Hue. His unit was small and headquartered in the city rather than on a military base, so when the Tet Offensive began in 1968, his unit were besieged in their house and eventually captured by the North Vietnamese and smuggled out of Hue. While being marched overland toward Laos, he and one other prisoner escaped their captors and made it back to American lines. After extensive debriefing, he accepted reassignment to the United States for the last year of his enlistment, and was discharged in 1969. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Serafino, Meg (Interviewer) Lest We Forget Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-09-17 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HayhurstR1031V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cc571b8ca888f772c01e656c2c6716ff.mp4 60d923946aded01ae8e32b34219e9597 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3572081f85593ed295e550631fbba53c.pdf 5e11726c3cb06aebbf4862dd33eda674 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam Jim Harris Total Time – (01:17:00) Background • • • • • • • • • • He was born in South Dakota on December 29, 1941 (00:27) When he was eight years old, his family moved to Minneapolis He graduate from Richfield High School in Minneapolis in 1959 (00:37) His father was a physician o He grew up expecting to a doctor as well (00:51) He attended Carleton College in Northfield, Minnesota (00:57) o He majored in chemistry o He was a captain on the wrestling team Growing up he had some thoughts of going into the military o Having a family and being in the military appeared to disruptive for him (01:20) He graduated from Carleton College in 1963 (01:28) In Fall of 1964 he started at the University of Minnesota Medical School where he eventually graduated from in June of 1968 (01:37) The military, at this point, was not taking anyone directly out of medical school (01:58) He had four years of medical school and one year of internship (03:04) o He finished his internship in 1969 Enlistment/Training – (03:13) • • • • • • • He had orders to report – he had been drafted (03:18) o He had taken his physical before he was done with his internship There was an assumption that the military would use him as a doctor (04:13) He is sent for training at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio, Texas (04:14) o At training, there were field drills as well as classroom work In basic training, the military did not expect the doctors to be like everyone else (05:03) He is kept at Fort Sam for six weeks Nearly everyone in his unit had received their orders to report to Vietnam before they had finished training (05:24) There were a couple hundred men in the classes together (06:06) �• • o They were pretty much herded through the process He had orders to report to Vietnam o They had a week of leave before they were sent After his leave, he planned on taking a bus from San Francisco Airport to Travis Air Force Base where he would leave from (06:49) o The bus traveling to the base had sold eighty tickets for fifteen seats o The last ticket on his plane to Vietnam was given to the guy in front of him (07:11) Active Duty – (08:04) • • • • • • • • • • • • He then took a plane from San Francisco, California to Hawaii (08:08) o The plane refueled at Wake Island before going to Tan Son Nhut, Vietnam (08:26) He landed in the middle of the night o It was quiet when they landed After they landed, all of the soldiers loaded up onto buses to go to Long Binh, Vietnam (08:49) o Here they filled out all of their paperwork He then caught a ride to the 44th Med Brigade (09:07) His assignment was the 2nd Mobile Army Surgery Hospital in Lai Khe, Vietnam (09:13) His first impression of Vietnam was that it was not very much different than he expected o It was somewhat difficult to adjust to the military life but not necessarily to Vietnam (10:28) o It was the realization that he was in Vietnam that was strange He remembers talking to a Medic that was at Pearl Harbor and all he could say was that “it was awful” (11:30) o It is hard to be able to fully relay the experience to someone that was not there o He does not have the communication skills to explain exactly what it was like The reception in Lai Khe was typical o They lived in hooches (13:29) o The doctors got more space than other soldiers When he was there, it was a main base camp for the 1st Infantry Division (14:05) o The 1st Infantry was in the process of being withdrawn o Once the 1st Infantry got to a low level, the hospital was closed (14:24) He was at work within twenty-four hours of being there They took care of a lot of Vietnamese and civilian casualties (14:54) o There G.I.’s would come in during the evening There were very few casualties or injuries that were inflicted by the Vietnamese or American armies (16:00) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • o The majority of the civilian injuries were intentionally inflicted by the North Vietnamese (16:11)  They targeted the civilians to intimidate them so they would help them out The MASH Unit had three operating rooms and fifteen to twenty doctors (16:41) o There were also a couple of wards with nearly twenty beds in each one They did most of the stabilization The military did a good job of spreading the casualties around (17:04) There was an emergency room where there were six stretchers that were sometimes all filled up (17:19) The majority of the patients that he saw needed major amputations in their lower limbs (17:41) The Vietnamese are sent to Vietnamese hospitals for stabilization They had heard that the Vietnamese hospitals were not very good (18:03) Sometimes they cared for North Vietnamese prisoners (18:07) The North Vietnamese were treated the same as everyone else (18:38) o There were Military Police (MPs) with the NVA soldiers at all times  The MPs were there to protect the NVA soldiers from other patients or soldiers (19:06) Beyond the fifteen doctors, there were some extra technicians, lab people, three anesthesiologists, and some others (19:42) o There was a nursing staff as well (20:02)  There were male and female nurses From where he was, he knew that Nixon was pulling soldiers out, but they did not know that he was trying to pull everyone out (21:56) o The morale of the soldiers on the field was poor o He was busy enough taking care of patients that he did not pay attention to many other things There were not many interesting places to visit off the base (22:34) He spent the majority of his time on the actual base He was able to stay in contact with those at home through letters and a tape recorder (24:04) He stayed with the MASH unit for roughly three months (24:13) When the MASH unit was taken down, he was transferred to Phu Loi, Vietnam (24:21) Phu Loi was the head air strip and a maintenance base His job at Phu Loi was one of two physicians in dispensary that would function as an office that would take sick calls (24:45) o There were several thousand people on the base There was not very much enemy activity at Phu Loi (25:39) They treated mostly American military people and occasional civilians (26:08) He was at Phu Loi for a couple of months when he heard that he was going into the 101st Airborne Division (27:25) He never recognized the drug abuse if there was any around him o The soldiers realized that they could not come to work drugged �• • o The soldiers were doing their jobs properly (28:32) He moved to the 101st after the middle of May He joined them at Camp Evans (30:08) Active Duty – Firebase Ripcord – (30:12) • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • He then went with his unit [2nd Battalion, 506th Infantry] to Firebase Ripcord (30:22) o He knew very little about Ripcord at this point When soldiers did not go to the firebases, they would hang around aid stations and rear areas (31:36) Unlike many of the other soldiers, he was not resistant to going to Firebase Ripcord (31:54) As he approached Ripcord, it looked like a sand pile on the top of a hill The mountains were not high but they were steep (32:39) o The nearest American road was ten miles away o The nearest North Vietnamese road was four miles away The aid station was divided into three areas o There was one room that was just big enough for a stretcher o The other rooms were slightly larger – one of them held supplies and it was where they would sleep (34:25) At the aid station, he had a one year medic, several field medics, and himself (34:37) He gets to Firebase Ripcord at the end of May of 1970 At this time he had heard about everything, but they did not take much incoming resistance o He was told that “you are at the firebase, but the firebase is not the field.” (35:33) Before the siege proper began, he would go out on the hill and look around Casualties on the field were medevaced to other areas (36:18) o The casualties that he dealt with were those on the firebase He was able to get to know many of the soldiers at the firebase pretty well (37:09) The weather was perfect on top of the hill (38:16) Initially it did not seem like it was a bad place to be Around the 1st of July the first bombardments began taking place (38:50) o It was several days before anyone on the hill had been injured (38:52) Nearby on Hill 902, the Charlie company was being hit hard o Hill 902 was close to Ripcord o Some of his men had been in Charlie company (39:55) If medics were in the field for six months, they would try and pull them out (40:35) After the fighting on Hill 902, the last three weeks on Ripcord, soldiers rarely went outside (41:12) �• • • • • • • • His aid station was blown up by a Chinook Helicopter that had crashed (41:16) When the Chinook crash occurred, he was outside and could hear the impact of the bullets hitting the side of the helicopter (41:49) o He could see the Chinook falling and knew he had to get cover Before the Chinook crash there were many casualties that came in o They would receive them in bunches (43:40)  There were three days that were particularly bad o The casualties log book burned when the Chinook crashed (44:03) o He suspects that twenty men were killed on the hill and nearly one hundred were injured (44:13)  The hill only had roughly three hundred men As time went on, the bombardments occurred more frequently and they were increasingly more accurate Because the aid station was blown up, they worked off of large metal canisters that had aid supplies (46:51) o The used the TOC (Tactical Operations Center) as the new aid station (47:09) The aid station simply gave soldiers basic treatment before they were flown out He believes that it would have taken an entire brigade to reinforce them if they were to stay They were then ordered to pull out (48:52) Active Duty - Firebase Ripcord Evacuation & Remainder of Service – (49:24) • • • • • • • During the evacuation, there were still many casualties He remembers his experiences with Colonel Lucas that he was an excellent leader, communicator, and would give up his life for his fellow soldiers During Ripcord he was injured the day before they evacuated (55:06) o There were some casualties from a mortar round so they loaded them up and saw a mortar round hit where the helicopter was  He realized that the NVA would send the next mortar round right where they wanted it o They then loaded a second helicopter full of casualties  An NVA mortar round hit exactly where that helicopter had been (55:58) o He was running away from the site when he was hit in the back of the leg with a small piece of shrapnel (56:04)  He never told anyone about it until later There was a lot of confusion during the evacuation (56:55) There was a ten second time span between mortar rounds o Soldiers would wait for the ten second period and load up the helicopter and then take off as quick as possible (57:15) He remembers jumping into his helicopter and having to pull someone else on with him (57:51) He was in one of the middle crews to evacuate �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • The helicopter that he was on had been hit with a frag and was leaking hydraulic fluid (58:20) o He landed in Camp Evans At Camp Evans, the soldiers just sat around for a day or two and then went back to work (59:22) He still had four months remaining in his time of service (59:57) He then went to Firebase Katherine for nearly a month (01:00:04) o He was then sent to Firebase Rakkasan before going on R&R for a week (01:00:12) On R&R he went to Hong Kong o He was able to go around and buy camera lenses, take pictures, and enjoy his time (01:00:55) o It was not very tough for him to get back on the plane to Vietnam (01:01:01) There were casualties after Ripcord, but the war had quieted down quite a bit There were many men that had jungle sicknesses and cuts on their hands from grabbing wildlife in the jungle (01:02:10) He was not expected to take care of the really bad situations Near the end of his service, the majority of the men in his unit were new (01:02:40) o It was a different war at that point (01:03:37) Many of the men realized that using drugs in the field would get them killed (01:04:01) o There was an amnesty program that began for soldiers for drug abuse Heroin showed up in his place in the beginning of September in 1970 (01:05:01) o There was no heroin use in his unit o Many did not realize that cocaine was addictive  Some of the men could not even stand up when they went into the amnesty program (01:05:26) o It was 95% pure o Many of the men thought that it was cocaine and did not realize they were snorting heroin o Soldiers could buy drugs just outside the gate to Camp Evans (01:06:09) o Drug abuse could not be prevented When he was at the end of his tour he was not counting down the days until the last few (01:06:56 He leaves around Thanksgiving of 1970 (01:07:25) He traveled from Cam Ranh Bay to Seattle and then on to Minneapolis (01:07:34) o He traveled by plane until Minneapolis and then drove home He did not experience any protestors at the airports (01:08:01) When he gets home he is on holiday leave On January 4, 1971 he had to report to Fort Lee in Virginia (01:08:14) o He was supposed to be there on the first or second of January but called to see if he could stay at home longer �• • He spent some time at Fort Lee before spending nearly four months at Fort Pickett in Virginia (01:09:40) o There was only one doctor at Fort Pickett o During the summer, it was a National Guard training area o He would treat soldiers with field injuries from field exercises (01:10:27)  There were men that had to be treated from breaking their legs playing baseball o One of the troops took part in a local rodeo and got gored by a bull (01:10:53) He virtually dismissed any anti-war movements (01:11:26) o They did not respect the movements After the Service – (01:12:35) • • • • • • His day to leave for home was in October of 1971 (01:12:41) He began his Surgery Training Program in January at the Hennepin County General Hospital (01:12:44) The Army did not make an effort to get him to stay in the service o He one day felt pressure when the hospital commander wanted to talk to him The Surgery Training Program was five years long (01:14:18) After he passed his boards, he started his own practice o He is still a practicing doctor in Worthington, Minnesota (01:14:42) He feels that war can conditions a person's attitude (01:15:24) o You have a different attitude of what is important and what is not o You also have a different attitude of what is risk and what is not � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Harris, James (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Harris, James Description An account of the resource Jim Harris was born in South Dakota on December 29, 1941, and later moved to Minneapolis. After college, medical school and a year of internship, he was drafted into the Army in 1969. He trained at Fort Sam Houston in Texas, and was then sent to Vietnam. He served initially in a MASH unit with the 1st Division at Lai Khe, and when the division pulled out, he was transferred to Phu Loi, and then to the 101st Airborne Division at Camp Evans. In May, 1970 he voluntarily set up the battalion aid station on Firebase Ripcord, and stayed there until the base was evacuated in July. He remained with the battalion for the rest of his tour, serving on several different firebases, and went home late in the year. He completed his enlistment at Fort Pickett, Virginia. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-06-01 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HarrisJ1445V Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d5ec16d755532bbef1ce6d09f1beb288.mp4 fd083317bfe7abdbed55b62b1d3d6d48 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4ea30830d7424f319c315b45a6d2e9e2.pdf 5f00b4661883bc3e49456009f2ca00f2 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW Tom Jillson Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, November 19, 2013 Interviewer: Mr. Jillson, can you begin by giving us a little bit of background on yourself, starting with where and when were you born? Sure, I was born in 1947 at Butterworth Hospital, right here in the Grand Rapids area. East Grand Rapids is where we lived, in the home of Gerald Ford, and my family did know and meet them. As a matter of fact, drove to Washington DC and met them and went through the oval office when he was down there, as a matter of fact. And I had conversations, through the mail, with Gerald Ford. It was kind of interesting growing up in East Grand Rapids, and it’s a little better to do area and surprisingly, most of the kids that graduated high school in East Grand Rapids went on to college, immediately, and I’m sure my parents had that plan for me as well. Interviewer: What did your father do for a living? My father was an insurance state agent, which meant he was a consultant, effectively, to the agents around the state of Michigan. 1:05 He traveled and he was home, probably, most every weekend, but the four days in the middle of the week, he was out visiting throughout the state. Halfway through my growing up he got transferred to Traverse City, Michigan and started a home office for the Home Insurance Company, in his home, and traveled from there, which was a lot less cumbersome for us, because we got to have him home a lot more, at that time. But, that was only three years and it was 7th, 8th, 9th and partway into the 10th grade and then we moved back down to East Grand Rapids and I took over my high school work at East Grand Rapids High School. About the time I 1 �was ready to graduate a buddy of mine decided that it was time to go and look at the military and see what the recruiters had to say, so I went along with him. 2:02 he didn’t join, but I did, that same day as a matter of fact. I joined the Air Force and got kind of excited about it. The reason I chose the Air Force is my brother Victor, who's a few years older than me, a twin to my brother David, joined the Air Force and was stationed in Biloxi, Mississippi, working in electronics and that was exciting to me. Electronics technology, and when he came home on leave he would build a radio, or something like that, and I got really excited that the Air Force could do that kind of thing for people. So, that was kind of what I had in mind, I wanted to join the air force, learn technology, and I did. As a matter of fact, in the first few months I got into technology. Halfway through my training, which I’ll get into in just a moment, but first of all I joined in June, graduated in June, joined in June, and was shipped out to Detroit to get mustered in and do all the paperwork. 3:05 It took about three or four days to get through all the mustering process because I had some hearing problems they said, so they put me through all sorts of tests and finally passed me through and sent me down to Lackland Air Force Base for basic training. This was right at the beginning of the real rush of kids joining the military, because of Vietnam in 1965. Interviewer: That rush to join the military, was that a rush to avoid being drafted or was it a call coming out to serve your country, because they needed people? I felt the patriotism the reason that I joined. I felt the draw, because I wanted to get in the military, I wanted to help stop the bad things that were going on. I don’t think it had anything to do with missing the draft, and again, I’d only been eighteen for a few weeks and it hadn’t even entered my mind that would happen. 4:00 It didn’t bother me, 2 �because I was ready for it and it was the right thing to do. College material, I could have gone to college and probably would have signed up for Grand Rapids Community College in the autumn, but I heard the nice recruiter talking about all the things I could get out of the military, education benefits, which I did use once I got out. When I joined the air force, got switched down to Texas, to get into Lackland Air Force Base, they had shortened the basic training from the normal thirteen weeks, or twelve weeks, to about a five to six week impacted training, and then they would send us out to whatever training we were going to go through for our career and finish it up at that point. Interviewer: Describe that first phase of training and what that experience was like. The Lackland Air Force Base and the basic training, I talked about it many times, and as a matter of fact, when my older brother, the twin of Victor, who had already been in and out of the air force, joined about a year and a half later and I’d visited him at Lackland Air Force Base when he was going through it. 5:08 The proof of what I’m going to say, I can describe as I watched him. Lackland Air force Base, or any basic training for any military purposes, and they can attest to this, I think their job is to break you down to a two year old and then build you back up into a man or woman, if it’s a woman joining the military. They did a very, very good job of making you feel totally inadequate, but then start building some belief in myself and to trust in the people that were directing me, the officers and NCO’s, etc., that were in control of whatever our lives were at that time. We learned how to dress, we learned how to shave, and we learned how to make sure our haircut looked good, polish our shoes. 6:00 To spend four hours polishing your shoes to the spit shine, shine seemed like a very inane thing to do, however it was important to the process, to make us feel proud of what we had. If there was a little dot of water on 3 �our shoe, we knew that it was a bad thing. Today I don’t care if I walk through the snow and ice, but back then it made a big difference. Interviewer: Did you have a sense that the people who were, the drill instructors and so forth, that there was sort of a logic to it and if you learn to do it their way you were fine, or did they play more games with your head than that? They played a lot of games with all of our heads and some of the people that were appointed as our student, or our squad leaders, or whatever, that weren’t any further along than we were, but were somehow recognized as being a leader, or having leadership talent, I don’t think that they had a clue of what the overall plan of what basic training was, but certainly there was a plan. 7:08 The intent had probably worked for two hundred years, to bring somebody in, getting them to trust the people that were going to tell them what to do when they got to the battlefield, or whatever else. To be able to respond quickly in the way they were told to and not just start thinking, “Maybe that’s not a good idea. Maybe I’ll just not do that”. Anyway, they got to that point with all of us. Sergeant Cahill, I remember him to this day getting right up to my nose and looking for the whiskers that—I hadn’t grown any beard up to that point, or anything else and that’s why I kind of have one now. I had to be clean shaven and they ran me through the whole role, noticed that I had a couple whiskers showing and I should have shaved better, or whatever. He was a nice guy, but you couldn’t see that during the day. 8:03 You could only see that during his down time, and whenever we got a chance to just sit down and you know, whatever. He would drink a beer and we would drink our milk until we turned twenty-one. Interviewer: Now, when you got through that phase, what did you do next? 4 �That phase went so quickly, it was unbelievable. I learned marching tactics and I learned all sorts of things. We did an awful lot of marching and an awful lot of calisthenics and an awful lot of that kind of stuff. It felt like a couple of weeks went by and all of a sudden the six weeks was over and I was shipped out to where--I didn’t know where I was going to, they didn’t tell me that I was going to go up to Chanute Air Force Base in Illinois and learn electronics. I said, “Fine, that sounds good”, and they wanted me to get into this electronics that was a fifty-four week training program. “Okay, that’s technology, that’s exciting, that’s building the radios that my brother did.” 9:03 The interesting thing is, that it was really geared toward the “Hound Dog Missile”, which was phased out before I got done with training, so they transferred me out of that. But, during that period of time, since I was in the long electronics course, there were some people that came in just to be an electrician. They might have been there for twelve weeks, or sixteen weeks and then they’re gone. I was in the fifty-four week program, so almost immediately, when I got to Chanute Air Force Base, I was appointed as a “Green Rope”, which was a squad leader and holding that green rope just meant that I had a little bit of authority over these six or seven guys that were in my barracks. After that first batch of kids had graduated and gone to being an electrician, or whatever else, I was appointed as a “Red Rope”. I’d moved up a stage, which meant I was in charge of a whole squadron—a whole; I think it was larger than a squadron. 10:00 I can’t remember what the group was, but that “Red Rope” meant that “Green Ropes” reported to me and we had discussions about what to do about specific infractions of the rules, you know, to make things nicer for the kids that were—I always called them kids once I got to that authority level and I was younger than most of them. Some of the fellas came in halfway through 5 �college or at twenty or twenty-one years old and here I am still eighteen or nineteen. But, that didn’t matter, nor did it matter even for the career folks. They always had young kids coming in as 2nd Lieutenants that were their boss, regardless if they’d been in the service for thirty years, but they only had seven stripes and reported to this little guy that came in new and had been in the military for two weeks, and the 2nd Lieutenant could tell him what to do. It was an interesting hierarchy and it didn’t take me long to realize that I was not going to be a career military. 11:03 I was in there for the short term, I was in there for my four years of duty and that was it. But, I also felt that I really wanted to do what I joined the military for, and thinking Vietnam at that I joined, I wanted to get to Vietnam. I didn’t think I was going to get there. After Chanute, after the training the decision halfway through that the Hound Dog Missile’s not going to go forward, that we’re not going to continue this program for these folks, you have a choice, you can either get into cryptology or you can get in accounting, and I didn’t think that cryptology was really career directed towards outside the military, and I knew I wasn’t going to be career military, so I chose accounting and that was probably a good move. They switched me down to Webb Air Force Base, which is a little base in Texas, in West Texas. 12:00 When I flew in the first time to that base, in the airplane I looked out the windows and there were lights forever. I thought it was the biggest city in world and, “How come I didn’t hear about this?” We got down there and found the town was probably about thirty-six hundred people, maybe four thousand people, and all these lights were the oil wells in West Texas. We flew into that and realized this was just the towers and the pumps out there in the wilderness. In Texas, West Texas, there’s nothing for fifty miles in every direction. The town was called Big Spring and the big spring was 6 �a little tiny trickle at the park in the middle of town, and that was about it. The closest actual water that you could swim in was seventeen miles out of town. It was a leveed up reservoir and it was kind of interesting and we drove out there quite a few times. I worked like a regular job for two and a half years while I was stationed in Texas and got to know a lot of the local folks and meet some of the families of some of the other people that lived in that area. 13:06 My roommate happened to be in charge of the civilian, or actually the kids of the military. I can’t remember what they actually called it, it was not a U.S.O., or something like that and we had those as well. They had a place where the kids of the officers could go to and kind of play and he was the director of that, so I got to go along with him on his job quite often and he got to meet quite a few of the folks. I suspect it was my relationship with one of the Colonel’s daughters that perked him up a bit and that’s probably why I ended up going to Vietnam. He said, “I don’t think so”, so he shipped me out. Interviewer: What did your duties actually consist of while you there on the base? I was in accounting and there I was a straight accounting clerk. I did payroll, runs, interestingly, computers, which is what I’m doing now; I work for a company called Trivalant, which is a network group now. 14:05 Back then I was a key punch operator. Even in the mid-sixties I was working in computers and technology, but the interesting thing then was, instead of doing paychecks we would do these keypunch cards and there was a keypunch card for every employee, every payroll run , and we’d have to take that box of cards for all these folks over to the computer, run them through to alphabetize them twenty-six times, one for every letter of the alphabet to get them all A through Z. then we would carry that back and we’d actually run those cards through a check printer 7 �that duplicate the information, basically, on the check and put the payroll together. I also did temporary duty. Probably the most important thing that happened during those two and a half years was I learned my first sales words from one of the clerks that worked alongside of me and his name was Bill Boyer. 15:03 I couldn’t figure out why all these officers and all these folks that came in to do their temporary paperwork would always gravitate towards Bill rather than me. At that particular time in my life I couldn’t understand why anybody would spend any moments of their life talking about sports, or talking about anything besides the business at hand. My job was my job and that was why I was there, but Bill always took the time to listen. He never shared one thing about him, he always listened and what he always said to people was, “Is that right? That’s really interesting, what else happened?” He asked questions and he showed interest and he showed me, really, how to sell. To listen and to care about people and it was not overt for him, he didn’t know he was this, but I was learning from him and I really appreciated that. 16:05 That memory has stuck with me all the way through. I didn’t become a sales person, I was an accountant at that time, remember, and I didn’t become a sales person until, probably, two years after I got out of the military and realized—put those two pieces together ad kind of went on in that direction. Interviewer: At that time, there was no particular profit to be generated by you coming to that realization? No commissions, or anything else, but it’s just that I felt, “Why do they like him and why do they not like me?” Well, it’s because he cared and he didn’t do anything different except listen, so I learned how to listen at that time. 8 �Interviewer: And you knew the Colonel’s daughter well enough to get sent somewhere else. Yeah Interviewer: How was that, did you just get a notice sent to you? Absolutely, and it wasn’t too long after a couple dates and she probably mentioned to her dad that she was seeing this enlisted guy and he probably shook his head and I think I even got sent to talk to the Chaplain for a moment to hear him say, “It’s probably not a good idea for you to go along with your buddy to the Spice anymore and see this particular girl”. 17:11 Whatever, she was good, I mean it was nice and I was a good straight up guy, but it still wasn’t something that he wanted to deal with. At least that’s my suspicion; I have no proof other than the Chaplain telling me that. But yes, I just did get a notice that within two weeks I would be shipped out and I had two weeks of vacation, or two weeks of leave that I could take beforehand. I went back home, got ready, got shipped out to—took an airplane, took a commercial plane over to California and waited for three days to get a transport plane. We were expecting to take a commercial plane over there and by the time three days had gone by and we’re sitting in this airport, we were ready to take anything. 18:04 We ended up going on a transport plane, a C-140, with a box, a cardboard box of sandwiches that was our lunch as we went over there. We stopped in Hawaii for about thirty-five minutes and I happened to know the senior master sergeant that was stationed with me back in Texas that was stationed there, so I called him and let him know that I was coming in. He hustled over and we got to talk to each other for about fifteen minutes and then I had to take off. We went over to Wake Island, which was a—you say Wake Island and you think that’s an actual place to 9 �go, but there were like about twelve people on the island wearing T-shirts and shorts and that was it. We got more gas, flew out and dropped off some boxes that we had taken to them and flew over to Da Nang. We landed in Da Nang on April 18th, I believe and it was 1968. 19:04 It was a good time, we came in during the day and it was a good time just to get adjusted for about three days. I didn’t know where I was going to be, or what I was—who I was going to work for, or whatever, but it was quickly assigned where I was going to be in the barracks with the other accounting folks. My only task for the first six months was to be a clerk at the airport, at where all the airplanes come in for all the military coming into the country, or the military going out of country and going back home, or even civilians. The first five or six months I had to meet every airplane and what that entailed was one airplane. Almost every day it was one airplane about eleven o’clock at night, so the good news about that was I didn’t have to work during the day, didn’t have to report to the office, didn’t have to do anything, I just waited until the airplane showed up. 20:00 It was about a forty-five to fifty minute task to make sure everybody went through and traded their money from green money they couldn’t use in country to the military pay certificates, which I traded for each one of the quarters, dines, nickel’s in dollars, ten dollars and twenty, I think we had the twenties at that time. Interviewer: So, why wouldn’t they just let people use American money or bring their money in with them? A couple of reasons, first of all, green money around the world is always on the black market, people wanting to get the green money just for whatever reason and there was a value to it, so you would actually pay more in whatever trade that they were giving, so we wanted to keep it out of the military hands. That was the intent of the military pay 10 �certificates and that had happened since WWII. Every conflict, every combat zone, folks were given this paper money. 21:00 Another couple of reasons why is because of the jingling change that the marines and the army didn’t want in their pockets, because it would be a giveaway that somebody was there if you’re trying to hide and that’s not a good thing, but a little piece of paper, which is worth five cents, doesn’t jingle. So, they wanted to get the change out of the hands of the military as well. So truly, every dine, every penny, not pennies, they could keep pennies for whatever reason, but there wasn’t that many of them, obviously, but every nickel up had to be switched for paper and that was my job. The first five months I did that and then I did get a couple tasks of taking cash out of the office in Da Nang and we had to take a helicopter, or a transport plane, or whatever down to a couple little cities, or towns around, to pay contractors, Australian contractors, Canadian contractors, and others. 22:03 Some of them didn’t want checks, some of them didn’t want MPC’s, so we had to actually take them green money. I had a Marine sergeant that went with me, he was my guard, and we never really got into too much trouble. I had the bracelet around my wrist taking this money down to them and the Marine sergeant was my body guard for that purpose. We went down to Pleiku, which is a little town, probably, forty miles or fifty miles south of Da Nang. Da Nang was right on the border right near the demilitarized zone. Da Nang was an interesting place too, the China Beach television show was taken on China Beach, which was about twelve or thirteen miles out of town and right on the ocean. An interesting thing I mentioned in the first five months, I didn’t work except at night, so I had to find things to do during the day and one of the interesting things I did was I found a camera. 23:03 I had television in my barracks, so everybody kind of gathered into my booth, my little 11 �cube that I lived in, to watch, I think we had Bonanza, and we even had Star Trek at that time and that was a fun time, we actually had good times. I had the benefit of getting to know some of the people that were in the barracks all day long, because I had nothing better to do, no work to do, no work assigned until the first sergeant found out that I was free and found things for me to do. We played cards, and I didn’t see, but I’m sure there was stuff going around. You always hear about Vietnam and drugs and all that kind of thing, but I did not see that. I guess the crowd that gathered around me, and the crowd that happened to be around me, was not that group. Interviewer: You were in a barracks with a bunch of accountants, right? 24:00 Well yeah, maybe that’s it, that’s the reason, but we did get into poker and we did get into roulette wheels and we did get into some of the gambling stuff, which was somewhat condoned. We did it openly, out in the middle of the barracks. Barracks, barracks and then the latrines were all up the middle of the area and the inside of those barracks was where the airplanes, fighter jets, and everything, were kind of stores, but it was interesting to me that around the perimeter of the base they put the personnel, knowing that the rickets and snipers and everything else were right on the outside edge. There were two fences right on the outside edge with barbed wire and control towers and everything else, two separated lines in the demilitarized zone we had around our base. It was probably about forty yards between those two fences. 25:00 The other interesting thing to me too was, along with the personnel and the barracks around the edge of the base, the hospital was set right on the corner, on the outside edge, where the helicopter came in to bring in the wounded and everything else, was right there on the edge and we’d always have snipers out there just taking pot shots at the helicopter pilots and it 12 �didn’t seem smart to me. But, that’s the way they built the base and intended it. I guess there’s no protection when you’re flying in anyway, whether you’re sixty yards further in, or whatever. Interviewer: In general, what was the country like was it hilly or really flat? The monsoon area, the area that I was in had a lot of vegetation. The interesting thing in the buildings that we worked and lived in, when we first got there we were interested to find that in the United States you see all the plugs in the walls close to the floor, just a foot and a half up from the floor. 26:04 All the power and everything else was five feet up, they were up in the middle of the wall and we could never figure it out until monsoon season came through and the water in our accounting offices, and everything else, everything was built to withstand about a foot and a half of water trenching through there for two, or three, or five day period of time when the monsoons would hit. But Vietnam, in that area, was very lush a lot trees, a lot of green, a lot of dirt roads, there was almost nothing paved, but between Da Nang and China Beach there was a good paved highway and every day there was probably six, or seven, buses that would take us from the base out to China Beach, so we could actually go to the beach, and the beach was fun. It was probably the most beautiful beach I’ve ever been on. 27:01 We had about seven, or eight military guys on blankets and there were no girls. There was a whole batch of Vietnamese kids that would hover on the edge of the beach, kind of down towards town. They weren’t really allowed on the beach, per se, but sometimes they got there and there wasn’t any way to keep them off. It was interesting that after I’d been there, probably, three, four, or five months and got to know some of the people around and even some of the kids and got to recognize them, and they got to recognize me, that sometimes they 13 �would steal things from blankets when military guys would go into the water, or whatever. You’ve got to watch out for the water in Vietnam too, the jellyfish, sharks, and all sorts of stuff. I learned that first hand on seeing those jellyfish, “Oh those are pretty”, and they’re kind of dangerous too, so don’t step on them. 28:00 But anyway, the beach is beautiful, they even had a PX, which was a store, and they had a restaurant where you could get a hamburger, you could get french fries, you could get a milk shake, of course I only made twenty-one hundred dollars the year I was in Vietnam, so I didn’t have a lot of cash to spend, but a hamburger only cost fifteen cents. You’ve got to realize that cigarettes only cost twenty-one cents, but we were rationed and I didn’t smoke, so I had a little more extra money than some of the folks. I could trade my rations to somebody else that smoked, twenty-one cents, or whatever, I didn’t care. Interviewer: Aside from going to the beach when you were going off base, was there anyplace else you could go? Well, there’s certainly places to go, there was an NCO club, which I went to all the time, and I would also go to the—not the NCO, just the enlisted club, but they had shows that would come in. 29:00 Monkey Mountain, if you’ve ever heard that term in Vietnam, was very close to us as well and that was where the marines were stationed. They garnered quite a few national, international, stars that would come over. Bob Hope got there, I think, one time during the year, but I couldn’t get out there, I was either working, probably meeting that airplane, or whatever when he was in town, but there were several important people that would come, and there were some singers and the ones that we really enjoyed the most were the Korean bands that would come in and imitate American singers. Those guys were fantastic, they couldn’t speak English, but they could sing 14 �those songs. I’m sure there was Chuck Berry in every single one of them and they did some good stuff. I actually had a pretty good time most of the time that I was in Vietnam. 30:01 There were good people and I made some good friendships. I actually worked part time for the Chase Manhattan Bank that also had an office. I was in accounting and they needed tellers and they hired a fella by the name of Rumbah, I can’t remember his first name that worked with me. They hired me just to be a clerk, probably for only four months, but I always tell people that in Vietnam I worked for Chase Manhattan Bank. I was just a teller for that, but it really was just a part time thing. I was really a teller for the government. The last six months, besides taking some cash, and that only happened three or four time, to some contractors I was assigned the negative side of trading those military facetive tickets, instead of meeting the airplanes for the guys coming in and going out, I had to go to the hospitals and go from bed to bed to bed for that were either wounded or getting shipped back because they were sick or whatever else. 31:05 if they were ill mentally, or whatever else, I had to go and take their cash and trade that for them as well and I guess I got good at it because that kept me in that job until I was ready to leave. I was looking forward to it every minute and sang the songs like everybody else did and it was getting short and getting ready to get out of the military. When I did I was right out of the military, but it was a couple of months before my four years was up, but it was time. It was a good four years, the second piece of the story happened to be mustering out and being told, “You shouldn’t wear your uniform outside the base, because people don’t like the military and they don’t like the Vietnam War”. I know I heard part of that, but I never really realized how negative the feeling was and how pervasive the feeling was about Vietnam. 32:06 I thought I was doing 15 �something good, I was very patriotic about it and I was getting paid, I don’t know, twenty-five extra dollars, because of being in a combat zone, and I finally fulfilled the reason I joined the military by getting to Vietnam and I thank that Colonel for that. I would have felt cheated spending four years in the military, during Vietnam, sitting in Texas, or sitting anyplace. I’m glad I went and I’m glad I was there. I grew up a lot , I was ready for college when I got out of the military and I wasn’t ready before I got into the military. But, the interesting story that has to be told about anybody that was in Vietnam, at that time, is the attitude for the next ten years after I got out of the military. Nobody wanted to hear the stories, nobody could drag out those intimate little things that happened during that particular day, or that particular time, nobody wanted to hear it. 33:01 My parents didn’t want to hear it. You know, I told them one or two stories and okay, that was enough. Now they know everything about what I did in the military. Go on to what’s going to happen in the future, none of my friends wanted to talk about it and it just didn’t come up in normal conversation. Probably seven or eight months after I got out of the air force, maybe it was even later than that, maybe it was like 1972, a couple of years later, that the state of Michigan sent us a check saying, “Thank you for your work in Vietnam”, and it was a check for fifty bucks, and it was almost like a slap in the face. Every single one of us that ever talked about it said, “I can buy dinner, and thank, oh boy”. It wasn’t a thank you , it was sweeping us under the carpet and saying that they did something for us. For fifty bucks, I didn’t do that for fifty bucks, I didn’t do that for anything but the freedoms of the United States and everything else. 34:03 maybe I was misguided, I don’t know, but I think I wasn’t, I think I did the right thing. It wasn’t until ten years, maybe twelve, fifteen years afterwards that I took a job, took an advisory 16 �position, at a company in Holland, Michigan called Can-Do, which is a help group that does interviewing and resume building and they do a lot of things for people that are looking for work. I think they do the unemployment activities in Ottawa County as well. Can-Do was a helping group that had an advisory group that was really what the advisors did was to refer volunteers, find placed that would give money and whatever else. We were just basically advisors of how to do the training and how to do some of this other stuff. 35:02 I was invited to be an advisor and it sounded like a great idea, so I did. The person that met me at the door and was going to drive me over to where this first meeting was, was a fellow my the name of Michael Vu and I’m sure his first name wasn’t really Michael, it was probably Wung Phau Vu, or something like that, but he changed it and Enlishized it when he got shopped over as a young kid, probably ten or twelve years old in 1972 when they escaped from Vietnam and come over to the United States and centered there. He was the one that happened to pick me up and I noticed that he was Vietnamese. You can tell the difference between a Vietnamese, a Korean and Chinese person once you’ve been there and know. There are major differences, and he was, obviously, a very nice young Vietnamese fella. I mentioned that I was in Vietnam and his eyes got wide. 36:01 He stopped the car, we were already driving, he stopped the car, I didn’t know what the heck was happening, he got out of the car, came around to the side where I was, made me get out of the car, held out his hand and shook my hand and said, “Thank you”. I’m going to do it again, I cried, I had ever been told “Thank you”, except for that stupid fifty dollars. Nobody had cared, but I got it from him and he had made it his mission and his issue to say “Thank you “ to everyone that he ever met that 17 �was in Vietnam and did that job. So, I made it my issue and my mission, to do the same thing, so I’m sorry to choke up like that. 37:01 Interviewer: The contrast to that response, coming home, is pretty traumatic and it’s a reminder here that we were in places like Korea and Vietnam. And we wonder if that will come out, in the end, for Iraq and Afghanistan as well. Many of the people who were there actually saw what the Americans were doing as something other than being a bunch of imperialists, or whatever, and that they really were people and they were trying to help. You have to remember that the story is that complicated and that’s part of it too. It wasn’t so much the time I spent in the military, because I knew what I was doing then, but it was the fifteen years between leaving and being told that the muster out saying, “You might not want to wear your uniform out there. As a matter of fact, if you don’t need them, throw them away”, and I did, which is kind of—I feel really bad about that because I could have used those fifteen o’fives in some of these military parades that they have on Veterans Day and the Fourth of July, and marched in and walked in as a veteran, but I didn’t have my uniforms and I would have liked to have kept that. 38:04 I think I kept the hat with the emblem on it, but that was it and I didn’t have the rest of the blues. But, it was that fifteen years of wanting to talk, I’m sure, wanting to just get it off and talk about all the good, bad, or indifferent things that happened, and things I saw, especially the bed to bed in the hospitals, but nobody wanted to hear it, but he wanted to say, “Thank you”. Interviewer: Now, I want to back up to a couple other dimensions of that period in Vietnam. You were talking about the layout of the base and driven away as a 18 �perimeter and talking about having rockets fired at you. To what extent were you aware, while you were there, that you were in a war zone? You had, in many ways, a civilian type job, but was there—did the base get fired upon and regularly and by what? 39:03 Probably once a month, or so, and maybe a couple times during the Tet period and whatever. Rockets were definitely sent at us and what was kind of interesting about that is we could hear those rockets coming from way away, and we could almost tell how far past, or whether they were coming close or whatever else. A lot of the fellas got kind of jaded, they thought they could tell that the rocket wasn’t going to touch the barracks, or whatever else, so they just stayed in their beds, or whatever. I was pretty conscientious about getting out and getting down to that bunker myself. But a couple times it was kind of interesting. After the rocket attack, it might have been ten o’clock in the morning or the middle of the day and you get these rockets coming over and it wasn’t always at two o’clock in the morning, in the middle of the night. These guys would sit out, probably half a mile from the base, and they’d just set up this little launching pad and they’d lob a couple of rockets in. 40:05 What they were trying to do was take out the airplanes and jets that were in the center, or maybe the Huey helicopters, or whatever. But, I saw the devastation that those rockets made even in the middle of the street, right in front of our barracks, where one hit. It blasted the concrete and the tar, or whatever was on there, probably six or seven inches, completely away. A seven or eight foot hole went down about eight feet, but the military was so good at repairing things that probably within forty-five minutes you couldn’t tell it was ever done. They filled up that hole, they put that stuff back on the—you could see that it wasn’t the way it was before, but it was solid 19 �and ready to drive over in forty-five minutes to an hour. I’ve got a lot of pictures of the things that—things like that, but I didn’t get really close. 41:02 The only times I was ever really given a gun, a rifle, I can’t call it a gun, it was a rifle, was a couple times when we had noticed that the insurgents, or the Vietcong, were close, because we were close to the demilitarized zone, we were close to the north. They were coming close and they were in the area, and they would issue us, if we were on call for protection of the perimeter, they would issue us a rifle and six bullets. I was always wondering what good were six bullets. I mean, and if I see somebody I would probably shoot all six and now what do I do, walk away or run, or whatever? Is seems like they should have given us enough to get us by for the whole evening, or whatever. This was a semi—M-16. Interviewer: So, it was pretty easy to squeeze off all six bullets. Yeah, bam and they’re all gone. 42:02 Interviewer: So, you had, sort of, regular Army and Marine guards, or things like that, around the base? Sure, we had the guys in the huts around the edge and we also had the MP’s that were always there. They were really in charge of the perimeter guard, but me as an accountant; I guess that I was on call a couple of times, because I remember getting that rifle and the issue of the six bullets. Interviewer: Once you had the rifle, what did you do? We were actually led out to one edge of the airport and we were stationed there and spread out with one or two people that were kind of in charge of the group, and they would just leave us there for forty-five minutes and never saw anything, maybe closer to 20 �two or three hours and never saw or heard anything, so then they got us up and walked us back and we turned in our rifle and turned in our bullets. Interviewer: Now, did it appear there were sniper attacks, did that go on? 43:02 I didn’t see any, or hear any, but I heard about several of them that were sniping at the helicopters that were coming off the helicopter pad by the hospital. I got told by the nurses, again I got to know the nurses and I got to know the folks over at the hospital when I was going through and stationed at that particular point in the accounting office. But, I got to know some of the Vietnamese mamasans that worked in the different barracks, to clean up. There was at least two assigned to every building. Interesting people and I even got invited to one of their homes for an evening meal, which was unheard of. I didn’t know of anybody else that got that kind of invitation, so I must have done something right, or whatever. She invited me to meet her parents and they lived in a little village kind of connected to the base, but not on the base. 44:01 We had to actually go through the exit gate, but their little hut was outside of that. I had a dinner that I could not describe and I had no idea what we were eating, but I did my best at tasting. Interviewer: Were there concerns, or security concerns, about any Vietnamese people working on the base? Of course, we always worried about what these—and I guess they had some kind of interview process and whatever else, but some of the mamasans were fifty years old and some of them could have been thirty years old and looked fifty as well, I don’t know, but some of them were twelve, thirteen and fourteen years old. The interesting thing is that they have different concepts of what’s right and what’s moral, or whatever. Nudity is not 21 �anything to them and they would go in these barracks and the mamasans would walk right down where all the guys were taking their showers and they’d be taking their own shower. 45:04 It didn’t matter to them. It’s just an interesting concept to adjust to. There was no sex involved, it was just weird. They just don’t have the same feelings about some of the things that we do, but they were there just as part of the family and their jobs, and, actually, one of the things I liked about it was, they would polish our shoes. They wouldn’t do the spit shine stuff, but they would polish our shoes, they would dust the room, make the beds, even, for those folks that weren’t there during the day and it was kind of like having a maid. Interviewer: Were there other Vietnamese working on the base other than military or civilians? A few, there were definitely some translators that we needed. We had some translators on the accounting office that we pulled in whenever one of the foreign nationals or one of the military of the Vietnam that were working with us would come in and they’d have money and we’d have to switch that over, or they’d have some other business to do with the accounting office and we’d have to talk to. 46:07 We had half a dozen of the secretaries who were Vietnamese girls that worked in our accounting office and, certainly, there were the waitresses in the different places. They weren’t all military employees that worked in the restaurants and the NCO and officers clubs. There were quite a few civilians that worked throughout the base. Interviewer: What were the dates that you were actually in Vietnam? April of 1968 through April of 1969. 22 �Interviewer: That’s a period when you had-- the Tet Offensive started early in the year and then you had the ramifications that played out after that. Yeah, we knew it was going on, but it didn’t feel any different on a day to day basis. Whether that was going on or it was just—we saw heightened activities going on, more trucks going in and out and marines coming through. 47:07 Air Force, Marines and Army have a great relationship, especially at the supply folks. Marines seem to get the better food for whatever reason. Interviewer: That’s not what the Marines will tell you. You know, except they traded most of that food to get other things that they wanted like boots and we—for whatever reason the Air Force got better boots, better fatigues, I don’t know, whatever, but they wanted to trade those things over. But, we had a lot of steak outings thanks to the Marines, but they also wanted their money taken care of too, so we kind of had something over them and we took care of the finances for a lot of the different military activities, it wasn’t just Air Force. Interviewer: Did you have any idea sense of how the war effort, itself, was going? We were pretty well kept in touch with it. 48:00 Whether it was reality or not, I don’t know. We had the—we definitely had the local radio stations, and because I had the only TV set in the area, I got to see some of the little Vietnam news stations and some of it was overlaid with American words and stuff and it was kind of fun to try to understand what was going on from their aspect as well. It was probably even less sophisticated than the community type TV station like this. I mean, they had TV stations, but they were probably put in the back room of a warehouse or something and they put a camera up and 23 �started shooting. They would do news articles and they would have some woman talk about the weather, or whatever and it was kind of fun to watch that. Interviewer: Did you have any sense of whether the war effort itself was going well or not? 49:00 I still don’t know how it was going. To this day I really don’t know if there was an up and down. We were there for a particular job, and I was there for a totally different job than fighting the war. I was just support. Accounting and finance and doing paperwork and making sure the cogs of the business actually went through. Interviewer: I guess the place where you would see a certain amount of it would be when you would go into the hospital and so forth, when you’re dealing with the wounded men and that kind of thing. Sure, and talking to the Marine guys that we got to know. Even out to China Beach when I was on my little daily R&R’s. I tell you, I went out there as often as I possibly could, so I took—the bus driver knew me by name, so I’d get on there and we’d have a nice ride. I would take pictures of some of the—he would actually drive a little bit different once in a while, so I could see and take pictures of some of the fancier homes. 50:00 There were fancy homes over there and there were gates communities over there. I’ve even gotten pictures of, what looked like to me, a mansion that had a nice cement wall built around it and nice foliage in there and a bunch of people hanging around in there. Very oriental looking, but it was, really, kind of cool. The driver would take me into the different areas. Now, downtown Da Nang and downtown Pleiku, it could not possibly be considered a downtown anyplace else, but in those areas. The dirt roads that were the side streets that were narrow enough to get, maybe, two motorcycles and maybe three 24 �bicycles, but not two cars at the same time going down those roads. The things I was looking for to take pictures of, totally different than East Grand Rapids, Michigan, or Hudsonville, where I live now, or anything else in the United States. 51:04 There are no places in the whole United States that I can even imagine that were anything close to this and I’ve been to the four corners, I’ve been out to Arizona and I’ve driven through the deserts out there. That is not what I mean, this is where people live that are so at the low end of the scales, in terms of homes and housing, and yearly and annual incomes, and all that kind of thing. I don’t think they had much, but there are also, the hierarchy, the people that ran the government, and I’m sure they had those nice homes. Somebody had money, someplace, but what they did and how they got through day to day, I don’t know and I don’t know what they were. Interviewer: It was part of a larger political issue. A sure thing when you have people living in that much poverty. That much money and that much poverty with nothing in between and there’s nothing in between. There’s no middle class and I never saw a middle class at all. Interviewer: You talked about going into, and seeing, downtown Da Nang or Pleiku, or so forth. What occasions did you have to go into those places? 52:04 The reason I went to Pleiku was to take money to contractors. Something, probably, in my Captain’s head decided that I would be a good person to send out there. It was not an overt progression; it was just that one day I got this assignment. Interviewer: That was a little further away, now did people go off the base and into DA Nang for any reason otherwise? 25 �No, you had to have a special pass; you had to have a special reason. You had to have escort. They were not able to just walk off the base and just wander around in Vietnam. You didn’t do that and they had to know where you were, you had to have a pass, you had to have papers, you had to have reasons. Even if you’re going close to the edge of the base, you had to be—you could be collared and questioned and try to figure out why you’re doing something that’s a little abnormal. 53:02 Interviewer: It makes for a kind of insular existence there with the base and with these people and you’re aware of certain parts of what’s going on around you, but not necessarily others and you focus pretty much on the task. You focus on the task and what was interesting is that most people worked, went to the NCO Club. They had slot machines and, you know, it was fun, it was—they had drinks and they were cheap. You could get almost anything you needed to for a nickel. I mean, it was just—the PX down the street, or the PX that you could get to the store. You could buy anything that you wanted at government discount rate or whatever. Money was not too much of an issue. Nobody had any, we only had probably seventy-five dollars every paycheck, or even that, I wouldn’t be surprised. We had everything taken care of, we had our clothes and we had our housing, and medical, everything was taken care of there. 54:04 If we had a toothache, or something, we could get that taken care of at no cost. I can’t imagine wanting for much, except, maybe, a picture frame or a radio. I did get a nice camera while I was over there. I got an Ishika. Hong Kong people would come over and they would build you a suit for seventeen dollars, or eighteen dollars. A complete suit, coat, vest, pants, and they fit it to you and everything else for eighteen bucks and that was it. I did take my R&R to Australia and I had a wonderful time in Australia. 26 �That could be another forty-five minutes of discussion just for the two weeks I was down there. I got conned by a guy in Australia that said he worked for the Australian Embassy. I found out much later that he didn’t, but we gave him money, but he usually spent it on us, buying us drinks and everything else. 55:04 The day we tripped up on it, I went down there on a Christmas week, or a couple of weeks and the day he got tripped up on, his—for whatever reason he promised he was going to take us out on the Embassy yacht and there wasn’t an Embassy yacht, but whatever, he was going to take us out. He must have known he was going away for a couple of weeks, or something, because he knew that we would find out that there wasn’t one, because we showed up trying to get on the Embassy yacht. We came up to the Embassy and knocked on the door and mentioned this guy’s name and they said, “We’ve been looking for him for quite a while. He doesn’t work for us, but by the way, we’re having our Christmas party and would you two guys like to come up and join?” We said, “Yeah, wonderful”, and we got invited to the Canadian Embassy Christmas party and got to meet some people there. I got to meet a family called the Stewarts. 56:00 Mr. Stewart and the lady that asked me to come was Christine Stewart and her father owned Stewart Wines, which was a very large winery in Australia. I got invited over to their home for a Christmas party and for Christmas Day and they treated me just like family. I felt like I was home for that period of time and these are Australian folks that didn’t know anything about me, but had invited me to this Christmas party at the Embassy and then she invited me to her home for Christmas parties. It was, actually, a neighborhood party that they got together with and the interesting thing that happened at this party was, they had just gotten, in that neighborhood, the police had just gotten a Breathalyzer that they were going to start 27 �testing, and they took it, brought it to this party to show off their Breathalyzer and this was 1968, so it was Christmas of 1968. 57:00 So, Christine and I got to know each other pretty well, and her older sister had married a navy guy. They had already moved back to the United States and he had gotten out of the service. But, she was pregnant at the time I was at this Christmas party, the sister was, and I wanted Christine to come and visit her in July of the next year. I would be out of the military at that time and I was going to be home in Michigan. Her parents, and Christine, asked me if I would meet Christine at the airport in New York and drive her up to Buffalo, which was not a short drive. She didn’t know anything about the United States, or what she could do, or how she was going to get to the next leg. I said, “Sure”, so in July, after I got out of the military, I drove to New York, saw an old girlfriend there for a while, but ended up marrying the old girlfriend. I met Christine at the airport and drove her up to her sister’s house and spent two, or three, nice days there as well. 58:02 The plan was that Christine would also come and visit me in Michigan afterwards, but Iended up getting engaged to this other girl. Interviewer: Alright, now once you did come back from Vietnam, then what did you do next? First of all, I went back to the job that I’d had before. I worked at Meijer's, Meijer's Markets at the Thrifty Acres No. 11 on 28th Street and Kalamazoo, their first one. I worked at Thrifty Acres there as a marking clerk, working in the marking room, putting little tags with prices on them. I went right back there and they gave me my job back even though they didn’t have to. I don’t think the rules were that they had to give me my job back after four years, but they did, and I started working and within two months from 28 �that job—I kept that job, but I also worked at Spartan Stores. 59:00 Now, competitive issues the way they are between Spartan Stores and Thrifty Acres, I was in an ideal position. I was in the marking room pricing at Thrifty Acres, and I was an inventory clerk dealing with pricing in inventory at Spartan Stores. The perfect place to have all the information and I was without a clue. They didn’t know that I worked at either place. Either place didn’t know that I was working the other, but I worked at Meijer's there another six months, or so, and worked at Spartan for another couple of years. But, that’s what I did immediately and then I took a job as a warehouse guy at—warehouse and accounting. I still thought I was going to be an accountant for a company called Celanese Corporation and DeVoe Paint and started working at a warehouse in Grand Rapids. For about six or seven months I worked in the office as the accountant and a sales job happened to pop up and I asked if I could have a couple accounts, just small accounts that we were doing business with, like Amway, would be a good account to take on. 00:09 I built that company revenue from DeVoe Paint from seventeen, or eighteen dollars a month, you know, they would just come in and buy a gallon of paint, or whatever, to about twenty to thirty thousand dollars’ worth of business and at that time it was a pretty good business. Then I started—they came up with a product, special to DeVoe Paint, which is a type of hypo- latex and it was an area where a lot of guys were getting out of the military, they were building a lot of apartments complexes and a lot of other kinds of things were happening that housing was becoming a very big thing and necessary for the military guys getting out. So, this hypo-latex was a onetime shot. It would build up to twenty-one, twenty-two mils on a wall without draping, so that was, again, kind of towards helping the military, but it was a product that we were doing. 1:08 The closest 29 �thing I got to working with the military again, after the military—the progression was getting out, warehouse accounting, thinking I was going into accounting, I took classes at community college nights, weekends, I worked three jobs and I worked even at Howard Johnson's at night to do studying. I was just newly married, coming up in August or September of that year. The year I got out—going to college, two jobs, at least, and sometimes three, just making ends meet and then soon after that having a family and going through that. But, in the middle of the seventies, which is about ten years later, or eight years later, an organization was in town called United Electronics Institute, which was a tech school. It has molded into, and I’ll tell you a little UEI to ITT Tech, which is still here in town. 2:07 I was a sales manager there, but at the beginning I was hired by group called George Shinn and Associates, which was a consulting firm to tech schools. What they did, they taught tech schools and trade schools and business schools how to recruit veterans. How to go to the Criss Cross directory, the Polk Directory and find the names as you go through there page by page and find that they were a veteran, or military. Education, paid by the military, we had the ability of using the Veterans Administration money and UEI was a hurting school. They had seventy students in the school, but these veterans coming back from the military and getting out of the service, finally started—instead of UEI going out to the high schools and trying to draw in graduating high school seniors, we started, and impacted my job, actually paid by George Shinn, not by UEI, paid by George Shinn and Associates consultants, to get the recruits from the military. 3:16 I built that school, just in the two years from 1977 through 1979, from seventy students in the school to over four hundred, with almost two hundred of that four hundred, primed and ready to start in July of 1969, when ITT Tech, ITT 30 �Educational Services, decided they wanted to buy UEI. There were ten schools across the country and only two of them were growing. Grand Rapids, where I was active, they made me the assistant manager of there as soon as I started getting some of these numbers and a fella by the name of Fred Weber was the director, the sales director, and he just kind of put him arm around me and let me work. 4:04 About halfway through 1969, when ITT started, George Shinn and Associates wanted to know why I was so successful and why these other ten, and they were consulting to all ten, why they weren’t. They called me down to North Carolina to a meeting to tell them all my secrets. I said, “Okay, I’ll tell you all my secrets. I work seven days a week, I work twelve hours a day, I set up ten to twelve interviews every single day, I call for four hours a day and I get all these people coming in and I play Ping Pong with them. We had three Ping Pong tables and all my sales guy were active playing Ping Pong with all these Vietnam veterans, and we recruited—I had, again, two hundred and fifty eight students primes for the July start in 1969. 5:02 The sale was culminated before those students actually showed up, because there was an encumbrance of those funds. ITT had to pay me as if those kids showed up, a month and a half before they actually showed up for school, so I got the largest commission check ever given by that company, for bringing those two hundred and fifty students in. Probably about a hundred and eighty of them showed up, but I got paid for all two hundred and fifty of them, as if they showed up, just to get rid of the encumbrance. But, that was veterans and we continued to bring veterans in with the plans that George Shinn had shown us how to do, but I was actually hired by ITT Tech when they came in. Straight commission with UEI, company car, expense account, and everything else, but it was all based on George Shinn’s plan of bringing in—George 31 �Shinn, by the way, won the Pulitzer Prize for writing a book, or something, it was a pretty important thing, and part of his talent was in recruiting. 6:03 That is what he promoted, that was his own company. Portland, Oregon and Grand Rapids, Michigan were the only schools that ITT bought, and now at ITT Tech, I’m still an advisor to them, still on their advisory board, and it’s still a good school and they’re teaching a lot of different things at this point. I worked for them about five more years after that and a lot of interesting things happened there. I was director of sales and we had some amazing years, but most of it was due to the veterans coming out of the Vietnam era, so if you ever went to ITT as a veteran it was probably because of somebody like me. I’ve always been kind of drawn to helping as many as I can. Interviewer: If you look back on the whole thing, how do you think your time in the military wound up affecting you overall? 7:01 I would have been a totally different person, probably wouldn’t have learned those sales words from Bill Boyer, and I would probably be a totally different type of person. If I had tried to go to college at that time I would have failed miserably. I would have stayed with my job at Meijer and I probably would still be working at Meijer as a clerk in the back room, or something, I don’t know, I really don’t know. I pat myself on the back all the time thinking I’m better than that, but I don’t know. The military definitely took me down to a two year old and grew me back up to being somebody self-sufficient. If you ask my wife about whether I can be self-sufficient, she would say no, but I know I can, if I want to, I’ve got those options. 32 �Interviewer: All right, are there any other kind of individual events that stick in your mind, or come back to you a lot from your time in the service that you haven’t mentioned yet? 8:01 The time I spent in Texas was probably an interesting time, basically, because it was do different from anything else I’ve ever done. For that tow and a half years I had no parents, I had no responsibilities, I had my job to go to, I had my own car, I had my own income, I had my own friends, and again, I didn’t have brothers around or anything else, I just was totally free. When I got out of the military and back home and lived at home for probably four months before I got my own apartment and I ended up getting married pretty quickly after that, marrying that girl from New York that I went and visited when I picked up Christine. That two and a half years was—West Texas is totally different than Michigan too. 9:00 I keep going back to those two and a half years, wondering if I got out of the military and gone back there—because I had friends there, I could have gone, and I was even asked to go and I’d be a Texan instead of somebody from Michigan. I don’t think too much about Chanute Air Force Base. I was there for that training and that seemed like one long day. I was there for, probably, four months, or so, and just don’t remember much of it except the Pizza that got delivered at night. Regularly the Pizza truck would come by and they had the most wonderful little Pizzas with sausage on. When I go out to Fricano’s, here locally, they got the sausage that tastes just like those little Pizzas they had down there delivered in those little trucks. I had a good time in the military, but I definitely would not have been a good career military person. Interviewer: Well, it makes for a good story and thanks for coming in and telling it to us. 10:02 33 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JillsonT Title A name given to the resource Jillson, Tom (Interview transcript and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jillson, Tom Description An account of the resource Tom Jillson was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1947 and grew up in East Grand Rapids, Michigan. He joined the Air Force upon graduating high school and was initially trained as an electrical specialist, but was then transferred to accounting. He was stationed at Webb AFB in Texas for two years of his service and was then shipped to Vietnam for the remainder of his enlistment period. His job in Vietnam was a clerk, trading American money for Military bills. He remained in Da Nang for the greater part of his time in Vietnam. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Air Force World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-12-18 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/035dd9ec4996646df9df97cab29de420.mp4 95e8619f52b08c41b878a2b2fb0117e7 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d686200e48deeaecfed7b1a2f5b4eedc.pdf f084e88e97b90403e31204167e7e292d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Stuart Jennings (1:00:29) (00:05) Background Information • Born in Benton Harbor, Michigan on 03/28/1926 • Stuart was born into a normal middle class family • The depression had struck while he was growing up and it taught him to share, do things on his own, and treat people well • He was the Lieutenant of Safety School in fifth grade and First Lieutenant in sixth grade • Stuart played baseball in elementary school and was on the track team in high school • He graduated from high school in 1943 (2:20) The Air Corps in Texas • Stuart was a cadet in the Air Corps and became barracks corporal • He served in this position for 2.5 years • Stuart helped wounded patients from hospital to hospital by flying them in a C-47 (4:40) Building Houses • After serving he built houses because there was a housing boom in the US • Stuart found it interesting that you could take a pile of lumber and turn it into a house • He took a break from building houses and traveled to Mexico (6:00) GM • Stuart was a foreman in Dayton, Ohio for 4 years • Yet they eventually asked him to work third shift, so he quit and moved to Florida • He eventually retired and built a cabin in the mountains of North Carolina • Afterwards he and his wife moved back to Florida because they got lonely living alone in the mountains (7:00) Marriage • Stuart and his second wife had six children combined • Together they had nine grandchildren • All six of their children have successful jobs • They taught them to work hard, be honest, and to give 110% (10:30) Working in Florida • Stuart was the manager of a RV manufacturing company • He was the chairman of the research and development product planning committee • He was able to buy a forty foot yacht in Key Largo �(14:15) Hobbies • Stuart enjoyed working with wood • His father and grandfather both worked in the wood business • In his past, he has built 12 airplanes, 16-foot long canoes, furniture (19:20) Experimental Air Association • This group put on yearly air shows and many pilots were volunteers and those who had retired from the service (24:00) Life in the Masonic Home • Stuart and his wife could not easily take care of themselves anymore • Their kids did not feel that they were ready to move there (28:30) His Second Marriage 1959 • His wife, Dorothy, is from Lansing • She was a singer in many different Michigan bands • They met through her brothers (36:15) The Depression • The Depression effected many different people in very different ways • It taught many people his age important values (41:50) The Masonry (42:15) Relatives in the Service • In 1766 Stuart’s family immigrated from England to Virginia • He had two relatives that fought in the Revolutionary War • His two grand fathers fought in the War of 1812 and in the Civil War • His dad was in World War One, he was in World War Two, and two of his sons were in Viet Nam • He has a grandson in the Marines stationed in Africa (50:15) Air Force Training • Stuart was not drafted; he enlisted because he liked planes • Speaking of the men he transported to different hospitals, Stuart said that “some men were wounded so badly, it was pathetic.” • Stuart never went overseas • He thought that joining the service was a good experience, but he would never repeat it • He also feels that every many should have to serve some time in his life � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JenningsS Title A name given to the resource Jennings, Stuart (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jennings, Stuart Description An account of the resource Stuart Jennings was born during the beginning of the Depression in Michigan. He said that growing up through that taught him to share, to do things on his own and to treat people well. After graduation Stuart became a cadet in the Army Air Corps in Texas and eventually a Barracks Corporal in the Air Corps. Stuart never experienced combat or went overseas. His job was to fly wounded men back and forth from hospitals in the United States. After his time in the service, Stuart got involved in the post-war house building boom after the war. The business allowed him to make a good living and travel. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Air Force Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-05-26 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a021bf5af175360e617cb9bf2f1731fe.mp4 e78dccfb87fac6953ea01aeb246ffc79 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c9e2853ef112be8fad9745b9ec3ca633.pdf e7725b2ce302134f434dca928ca91849 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Richard Jeltema (32:32) (00:22) Background Information • • • • • Richard was born in Grand Rapids, MI in 1927 His father worked in local trucking He went to Davis Tech high school Richard heard about the attack on Pearl Harbor on the radio He was going to be drafted into the Army so he enlisted in the Navy (03:54) Training • • • • • • • • • • Richard was sent to Great Lakes Naval Academy in Chicago, IL He didn’t get to finish high school, but he got enough credits from enlisting so he did graduate Boot camp was about 2 months long Richard chose to go into the submarine service He was sent to New London, CT to go to sub school Richard took classes on all of the systems of the sub for 3 to 4 months When he was in high school he was in machine shop They trained on WW2 subs He was first in the engine room and then moved into the auxiliary systems room Richard was stationed at New London for about 5 months (12:35) Deployment • • • • • • • • • • Richard shipped out on a troop transport ship to San Diego, Ca and then to Pearl Harbor He joined the Sea Dog sub with about 6 other new men on a 65 person crew They would go out to sea for 4 to 6 weeks at a time About 75% of the time they were on the surface He went to Guam, Okinawa, Australia, China, and Russia In China they were hit by a destroyer and it bent the periscope, so Richard had to make a plug for the hole when they took the periscope off Richard thought that China was dirty and poor, but things were quiet there They looked for mine fields off the coast of Russia for a week The sub didn’t stay in one place for that long They went to Melbourne, Australia and were able to go swimming on the beach �(20:19) Conditions • • • • • • • Richard liked being on a sub There were not any African Americans on board because everything was still segregated The officers were very friendly They would play cards, read, and ate well Sometimes they would be accompanied by other ships Richard was on the sub for over 2 years; most of the time the sub was at ports The sub had pretty much the same crew the whole time (27:51) Discharge • • • • Richard finished his service in December 1948 Richard went home and managed a gas station Then he worked at GM until he retired The Military made him more mature and built up his confidence � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JeltemaR Title A name given to the resource Jeltema, Richard (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jeltema, Richard Description An account of the resource Richard Jeltema was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in December 1927. He enlisted in the Navy during high school. Richard chose to go into the submarine service and was stationed in New London, Connecticut. He was assigned to a submarine in Pearl Harbor and went to places like Guam, Okinawa, Australia, China and Russia between 1947and 1948. While working on the sub Richard was a mechanic in the auxiliary systems room. The sub mostly patrolled, but on one occasion searched for mines off the coast of Russia. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-02-17 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/640b065d26d6919cd6b79514957581af.mp4 1516c05f68cfc32e41cbad34797fda60 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4d49b9ee8293c7a27b139ac7a7429138.pdf 9395dc1d44c0df6332e8e3319df35fbf PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Harry Jelsema World War II Total Time: 0:52:30 Childhood and Pre-Enlistment (0:00:15) • • • • Born on a farm in Allegan, MI Father was a vegetable farmer Went to school through the 8th grade. He was the only brother who worked on his father’s farm. Was able to obtain several deferments which allowed him to stay out of the service for a time to help out on the farm, but was finally drafted into the Army in July 1944. Training (0:04:51) • • Was sent to Camp Robertson, AR near Little Rock. This was where he got his basic training here. After basic, was sent to Camp Kilmer, NJ which was a staging Area. He then boarded the Queen Mary and crossed the Atlantic in January 1945. Active Duty (0:08:01) • • • • • • • • • • • • Landed in England, and stayed 3-4 days and then went on boats to Le Havre and there they got on troop trains to the front lines of combat. (0:12:13) Was taken to a replacement depot, and was directed by officers to their assigned units. Hi3s unit was in the Hurtgen Forest off of the immediate front line. He got there after the heaviest of the fighting. Joined a rifle company of the 121st Infantry Regiment of the 8th Infantry Division . It was snowy and cold when they got there. They would keep warm by putting on extra clothing. They moved out from their holding pattern after 10 days. This was when they moved out of the forest. (0:21:40) They crossed the Ruhr River and then the Rhine River and fought some with the retreating Germans. The terrain in this area was mostly a farming region. He had some contact with civilians. (0:25:15) Took many German prisoners during this time. (0:26:20) Saw different units of black troops during his time over there. (0:28:05) Ended up in the northern part of Germany, where they made contact with the Russian Army. Lived in un-occupied houses after the War officially ended, and their unit did not have any specific assignment while they were there. �• • • • • • • (0:30:20) Got back on a boat to come to the states, where he was supposed to do a week refresher course and then was supposed to be shipped over to Japan, but they surrendered before they could get to the Pacific. He was subsequently shipped to Fort Leonard Wood., MO where the 8th Infantry Division was disbanded. He was taken into the 2nd Infantry Division. He was then sent to Camp Carson, CO and was there for 6 months. While he was at Camp Carson, he was transferred into the Company HQ and was assigned to what amounted to essentially a 9-5 job. He would occasionally hitchhike to Denver on his time off. Was discharged in middle 1946. Was assigned to carry a bazooka, but never actually used it in combat. Post-Service (0:36:40) • After he was discharged, went back to Michigan and worked in a factory and as a truck driver. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JelsemaH Title A name given to the resource Jelsema, Harry (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jelsema, Harry Description An account of the resource Harry Jelsema was born to a farmer in Allegan, Michigan and served in the Army during World War II. He was drafted in 1944, and sent to basic training and after that to Europe, where he was a bazooka man. He fought in Northern France, Belgium, and Northern Germany, eventually meeting the Soviets. He was then shipped back to the US and was supposed to go to Japan, but the war ended before this could happen. He worked a desk job at Fort Carson, Colorado until he was discharged in 1946. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-11-11 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/34987d470face9b58599784142077064.mp4 6e283d4ad9fc2a8a5d8375f893db47ad https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6f98e2da1cde7a61b070bbb42f97cde7.pdf 435e680b74fece730899cb21838f4a67 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project James Jefferson (00:47:13) (00:15) Background Information • • • • James was born in Newark, NJ on July 13, 1924 James grew up in a community where Italians, Jews, and African Americans all got along He worked while in high school and had always wanted to be in the Navy He decided he wanted to join the Merchant Marines and lied about his age to get in (1:30) Basic Training • • • • • • • James had basic training in Rhode Island He worked with maintenance and operations of marine engine equipment It was November and very cold near the New York harbor James took classes where he learned the operations of engines and boilers He was then tested to work in the engine room James was the only black man out of 95 people in the class, but never felt any discrimination He did began to feel discrimination once he began working on the ship (6:20) First Ship Assignment • • • • • • • James was assigned to work on a golf oil tanker His first day entering the steam engine room was amazing His title was fireman, but had been told by the chief engineer that no blacks could operate as the fireman James challenged him by pointing out that the union shop steward who had given him the assignment would not like being overruled, and the chief signed him on James had a very rough time on the ship, due to constant supervision from the still unhappy chief, but it helped him to become a strong fireman and learn the job quickly James went on a voyage to Liverpool in February of 1944 James was also the youngest man on the ship (18:25) Crewmen • James got along with most of the other men on the ship from the engine room • He felt that there were a few ignorant and racist people on the ship, but most of the men were civil to him • James thought that the natives from Spain, Italy and the Middle East were all very friendly �• He was disturbed by the “untouchable” population in India and the way that they were treated (31:10) End of the War • In May James had been coming back from a trip in the Pacific • He arrived in Los Angeles and everyone was celebrating • The government had been storing oil and supplies on barges and offering commissions to merchant seamen to live on the barges and keep them secure • James had been thinking about taking the commission, but was discharged shortly after the war (36:50) More traveling • James continued to sail until 1971 • He traveled near the Suez Canal, around Africa, and to Somalia • James felt that the liberty ships were the worst because they were slow and cheaply made • The US began to focus more on speed and outsource ship building to other countries • There are no more merchant marines and the US buys all their ship from foreigners • After retiring from the Merchant Marine, James began doing industrial maintenance for the military at Fort Dix � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context JeffersonJ Title A name given to the resource Jefferson, James (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jefferson, James Description An account of the resource James Jefferson was born in New Jersey on July 13, 1924 and grew up in an integrated community. After high school James joined the Merchant Marines and was trained on Hoffman Island in New York Harbor. He enjoyed the training and did not feel discriminated against there, despite being the only black man in his class. When he signed aboard his first ship, however, he had to deal with a racist chief engineer who tried and failed to keep him off the ship. He describes some of his experiences in sailing around the world during and after World War II. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Merchant mariner World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Merchant marine--United States Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-05-21 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives