44 24 1541 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c4aaca68f5daa2940eee9707a9840425.mp4 e5c5f374bf75a387b943fcf818eaaba8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6db4bbcc5e5f0474beafcc040b5c01c5.pdf b9279c3a8baed70e8c7e7bfc6c357707 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW DENTON K. KIME Born: Niles, Michigan March 11, 1942 Resides: Interviewed by: Richard Massa, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, February 7, 2014 My name is Denton Kime; date of birth is March 11, 1942. Once again, my name is Denton Kime, date of birth 3/11/1942. Interviewer: Today is Thursday, January 14, 2010. We are at Lake Michigan College in Benton Harbor, Michigan and our interviewee is Denton Kime. Denny was born on March 11, 1942 in Niles, Michigan. The interviewer is Richard Massa. We are performing this interview as part of the Veterans History Project being conducted by Grand Valley State University in Allendale, Michigan. Denny, let’s start with a little background. Where were you born and where did you grow up during your high school years? Niles, Michigan was my home town. We lived east of Niles in Howard Township of Cass County, a little resort area called Baron Lake. 1:06 I grew up in the neighborhood at Baron Lake, I went to high school at Niles. I graduated from Niles in 1960, and was active in athletics, student activities, after school work, week-ends etc. I went off to college and went to Albion College. My interest was pre-medical, I had visions of becoming a doctor, but basically I went to Albion, because I was able to play football there. I wasn’t able to play football at Notre Dame where I wanted to go, but I wasn’t big enough, or good enough, so Albion was a good choice for me. I had four years there, I failed to graduate on time, I neglected to complete a couple of graduation requirements, 1 �so once I was no longer a student at Albion I received a draft notice. 2:01 I was invited to join the United States military. They ordered me to report for the Army and I went to the draft board with a plea to be allowed to join the Marines. I had always looked up to the marines. I had a neighbor who was in the Korean War, with the Marines in the Korean War. My father had always talked about serving in the military, he had missed both WWI and WWII, and his favorite branch would have been the marines. If he could have gone in, he would have gone into the Marines, so I was kind of leaning towards the marines. The draft board said, “If they’ll have you, that’s good enough for us”, so then I went to the marine recruiter and the rest is history. Interviewer: As a college graduate, do they offer an officer candidate program, or anything like that? Yes they do, but I wasn’t a graduate. 3:00 I missed graduation, as I say, I hadn’t completed a couple requirements. I was short two semester hours of credit and I had failed to complete a second year of the foreign language, so in my case I would have been eligible for officer candidate school after a tour of duty in Vietnam. That was the way it was set up with the Marines, you come in, go through your basic and do your tour of duty, thirteen months at that time, and then you can make application for OCS, or various other schools that require a college background. In my case, I was interested in flying. The neighbor marine that I mentioned was a pilot and I thought that I would like to fly. Another fellow and I, at the college, had gone to the Air Force school—not the Air Force school, but the—I guess they call it the assessment center, and we had come away with very high scores. 4:05 So, I did the same thing with the navy flight assessment program and received high scores there, so I would have been eligible to fly at that time, had I 2 �graduated, but it didn’t work out. I didn’t graduate, so I couldn’t fly right then, I had to serve a tour in Vietnam, so I ended up going the hard way. Interviewer: Where did you go for the basic training? San Diego, recruit depot, San Diego Interviewer: How long was that? My basic was twelve weeks. Interviewer: Then did you go into any specialty training beyond basic? Advance Infantry Tactics, my military specialty was 03-11, which was a combat infantryman. Following basic training I had about a fifteen day furlough and that was right around the Christmas holiday, Christmas and New Year’s. 5:04 I reported back to, in this case, Camp Pendleton, and we underwent what was called advanced infantry training. It was small group training with platoon and squad activities, fire teams, and we were involved with that kind of training for about four weeks. Then they sent us off to staging battalion, this was at Camp Pendleton as well, and we were there about three weeks before being deployed to Vietnam. Interviewer: Did you have any—were you married at the time or still single? No, I was a single person. Interviewer: In this final bit of training, was that done as a squad that then went over in a whole unit, or were individuals scattered? That’s a good question. I went as an individual replacement, and I was nicknamed an IR, as Individual replacements were. Our training was all small weapons, or small squad tactics. 6:03 Teams of four, eight, twelve, sixteen and then we multiplied sixteens, you know, thirty-two and then another thirty-two to make a platoon. There were four squads 3 �for a platoon, the way the Marine Corps had it set up at that time. The people that I trained with, however, went different directions once we got to Vietnam. We went over on a ship and I was one of the lucky guys that got to ride a troop ship for twenty days with about eighteen hundred crazy marines. I got to read a lot of books, a lot of PT, scrubbed a lot of rusty walls, rails and things like that, trying to maintain some of the ship. After twenty days we arrived in Da Nang, and we were all individual replacements except for one group. There was one company of marines, I don’t remember what the designation was now, but they went together. 7:04 The rest of us were individuals and when we got to Da Nang we split and went in different directions. Interviewer: Do you remember your send off? Was there any kind of a ceremony? Did you have family in your fifteen day furlough? No, no, my dad put me on the train in Niles after my basic training furlough, and rode the train—there was no one, just my dad was with me at the train station. I rode the train into Detroit, there was a pick-up there from Fort Wayne, and there was a processing center at that time in Detroit. We stayed overnight in Detroit and then we were bussed out to the Detroit Metro Airport the next morning, and we flew, then, from Detroit to San Diego. No hoopla, no send-off, just get up and go. Interviewer: On your troop ship going across the Pacific, did you get to stop in Hawaii or anything? No—yes we did. 8:04 We stopped, it was Hoka Reef, we stopped in Naha, Naha Harbor in the Philippines and we had twelve hours of short leave for those who wanted to go. So, two other marines and I went in and we found a little restaurant and had some food, some Japanese food. A little while later we were overnight in Pearl Harbor taking 4 �on supplies and fuel and picking up some officers that were going to Vietnam, but we were not allowed to get off the ship at that time. So, I had fourteen hours in Naha and no hours in Pearl Harbor and that was it. Interviewer: Do you recall when you landed in Da Nang; you said it was, what was your feeling, or impressions at that time? 9:00 Well, we all floated in Da Nang, just a big kind of gangplank kind of thing, down and back and I remember thinking, “This is the place where I’m going to die”. I was thinking that, because I landed in Da Nang on the tenth of March, my birthday was the eleventh of March and I was going to be twenty-four years old. For years, and I don’t know why, I had always thought I’d be dead before I was twenty-five. I just—something was going to happen, car wreck, a tree is going to fall on me, something, and I don’t know why I felt that way, but I did. When I landed in Da Nang on the tenth of March, a day ahead of my twenty-fourth birthday, I said, “This is it”. This is where I’m going to die. Then I just went on, I got met by the people who I was going to be assigned to and we went from there. 10:02 Interviewer: What kind of a group was that? Was it a squad or a platoon? Well, I went as an individual replacement, a fellow that was there ahead of me, in that particular slot, had rotated back home, he had served thirteen months. He was gone and I didn’t see him. I was assigned to a squad and then, subsequently, I was assigned to a fire team within the squad. All of our tactics, like I say, were wrapped around the squads, squads and platoons at that time. I was the only one to go into my particular platoon from the group that had been on the ship, from the group that had been at Camp Pendleton, so I didn’t know anybody. There were people there who had been there since 5 �the marines first landed in Vietnam in force, about 1965, in October [March]. 11:00 A couple of the fellows had come in--a sergeant and a staff sergeant had come in with the first group. My squad leader was a corporal and he came in November of 1965, and I don’t know when the rest of them came in. They were all fresh in country, actually, and hadn’t been there a year yet, and this was in March of 1966. The first deployments of large company, or battalion, size groups came in October of 1965. I was during that buildup time. Interviewer: Did your twenty days of travel on the ship count toward your thirteen months? Yes, it did, it did, which was good news. Interviewer: Once your squad started going out as a fire group, what type terrain were you in? Was it in lowlands, or up in the mountains? 12:02 Da Nang is right on the South China Sea and there’s a large river that comes in there. It was a deep water port and it also had a very large airbase. It was in a huge valley, a huge river valley. That valley had to be two miles across and as flat as could be. Of course it went inland, probably twenty-five, or thirty miles and then it started narrowing down and getting close to where the hills began. But, in the Da Nang area itself, where we were, it was pretty flat. Across the river there were a couple mountains, one was called Monkey Mountain and one was called Marble Mountain and they were there on what would have been the south side of the river. 13:00 Then to the north, a couple miles out of town, there were a series of hills of fairly low elevation, and that was the early, interior border of the valley, but basically it was flat. It was rice paddies; it was vegetable fields, lots and lots of little hamlets where people had been relocated from the interior to get away 6 �from the Vietcong, to get away from the fighting that was going on interior. These relocation camps were set up around Da Nang and it was a relatively secure area when I was there. It became a little bit more unstable as time went on and the Vietcong began to put pressure on Da Nang, because Da Nang was—it was critical to the United States as a supply area. 14:00 There were no highways to bring materials into Vietnam across terrain from other countries. We had Laos on one corner and Cambodia on another corner and both had claimed neutrality. North Vietnam, of course, on the other side of the DMZ , so the only way to bring supplies in was either with aircraft, or with the navy, you know, the vessels, aquatic vessels. We were the deep water port and the big airbase, all weather, all vehicles, airbase in the northern part of South Vietnam. Interviewer: So, you were always in the Da Nang area? My service was always in the Da Nang area, yeah. Interviewer: What did your patrols do? We—the company that I was assigned to, Delta Company; we were tasked with the security of the airport on the south end of the airport, and there was another marine company that had the north end of the airport and we just—we had a perimeter that had been established and our work was to reinforce that perimeter. 15:03 That meant building of barriers of concertina wire, engineers put in mines, and we did clearing operations where the vegetation was removed, so we had clear fields of fire. We relocated villages and buildings that were in the free fire zone, or the cleared zone. Work parties every day, nighttime patrols, and listening posts. We would go out, and not every night, if we weren’t on a nighttime patrol outside the perimeters, we were on firing positions, at the perimeter, and that was every day. During the day, if we weren’t 7 �involved in a work party, building barriers, or barricades, or developing new ones that were there, we were in the perimeter firing positions, the gun positions. 16:01 it alternated, but it was around the clock, it was twenty-four seven. We’d catch sleep when we could, and about the only regular thing was an afternoon meal. Chow hall was available to us around five, between five and six o’clock in the afternoon. If we were going on daytime patrols and leaving in the morning, we could catch breakfast in the chow hall. the lunch was always C rations, no matter where—we were either out on patrol, or we were working , but in either regard, we had C rations, but we did have one hot meal a day, that was a good thing. Interviewer: Now, the patrols that were outside the concertina barrier there, can you describe what would go on with that? Did you encounter the enemy within that range? 17:00 When I was there the Vietcong had not got, in large numbers, close to Da Nang, they were moving in that directions down the valley, and that was to the west and the southwest of the city. They hadn’t gotten there in large number, so what we encountered was, basically, some booby traps. For the most part it was a relocation area where civilians had been moved to get them out of harm’s way and our job was to make a presence and let people know that we were there. We were, however, looking for the booby traps, material that could be used for weapons, caches of arms, food, any of those kinds of things, and trying to make contact with the civilians to let them know that we were on their side. 18:00 We did encounter a few, what we called, suspicious persons. The interesting thing was, at that time when you would go looking for people, you would find old people, lots of old people, and you’d find lots of young people. Young, meaning 8 �up to about ten, eleven and twelve and after that you didn’t see any young people and they had gone off to be in the military, the ARVN, the Republic of Vietnam, South Vietnam army, or they were serving with the Vietcong and they weren’t home. If you went into one of these little vills and found a man of age twenty, twenty-one, or twentytwo, you want to be suspicious of that person, because he shouldn’t be there and he should be with one of these other designated units. 19:00 Well, they had identification cards and they also had access to fake identification cards and all we could do was check their ID’s and if they had a valid ID, we let them go. If there was any question, we would bring them back to the company area and there were some Vietnamese interpreters there and they would be interrogated. We did find people, and we did bring them back and I can’t tell you what happened to any one of them, I know they went through an interrogation process and chances are some were released and some were detained, it just depended on the answers they gave at the time. But, it was a relatively quiet time and I served in the Da Nang area airbase from March until the end of April and then we packed up our stuff and moved to an area called Hill 55, which is about ten, or twelve, miles southwest of Da Nang, it’s out in this valley that I told you about. 20:00 The hill was not really a big hill; fifty- five means that it was fifty-five meters above sea level, and that was the highest elevation point on that hill. It was high enough that you could see out across the valley. Another marine company had been there and they rotated with us, so now we’re at Hill 55, and this other Marine company came back and took up positions at the south end of the airbase, and then things changed dramatically. Now our task was not a perimeter security situation. Hill 55 was a firebase, there was some artillery pieces set up there, big artillery, 155 mm, 155’s, and then there were some 9 �smaller tubes there as well. Some tanks that were set up—it basically was an artillery firebase to provide support to the units working the valley. 21:02 The area of the valley that we were going to be working was called “Dodge City”, and it was called “Dodge City” primarily because of a reference to the old western, “Dodge City”, with the vigilantes, the bad guys, and the good guys, the shootouts in the streets and the rough and tumble way of life. All of the “Dodge City” area was a free fire zone, anything there was fair game, but we had to be careful, because there were little hamlets. As long as the people were in the hamlets it wasn’t a free fire zone, but if they were out away from the hamlets, then they could become targets. That put them in jeopardy, because that’s where the rice fields were and they had to come out and operate their rice fields. 22:00 So, we had a tough time, sometimes, deciding about valid targets, and most of the time we erred on the side of caution. These people had to make a living, work the fields, and we walked through the fields the same as they did, you know, on our search and clear missions, and that was our new task. Once we got to Hill 55 our task was to clear the Vietcong from the area, find and destroy anything that would give them support, weapons, food, caches, explosives, anything like that. Interviewer: Did you find those things often? Every day, we found stuff every day, and lots of it, and one of the side effects of that was, the area was infested with booby traps. If you look at the history that goes with that, the Vietcong had been fighting the French for many, many years. 23:03 Finally they had kicked the French out in the middle fifties and the United States, wanting to shore up South Vietnam, provided support to the South Vietnam military and government. We had instructors there, these were the Special Forces people, and other instructional 10 �personnel, but they were viewed the same as the French by the Vietcong and by the North Vietnamese. These were foreign people and they weren’t welcome, so there was a continuing—once the French were defeated, the Vietcong and the North Vietnamese continued—they had a goal of reuniting North and South Vietnam. 24:00 The country had been split by the peace accords of 1954 or 1955, I forget the year, after the French were defeated. There was a mission from the north to reunited North and South Vietnam, and because we were, the United States was, and some of the other foreign countries in there, helping the South Vietnamese government, we were then targets. They wanted us gone like they wanted the French gone, so they continued their war effort, even after the war with the French stopped. Well, when the marines came into the area in 1965 and 1966, the Vietcong had a ten year head start on them, on this buildup of defensive and offensive weaponry, and they were very good about the booby traps, there were all kinds of things that they were very clever about. 25:00 Interviewer: If they set so many booby traps around, how did they manage to avoid them when another group that wasn’t a part of the ones setting the traps? One of the interesting things was the hamlets, the little villages, were pretty much selfcontained and the peoples stayed in those villages and they knew where the booby traps were. Interviewer: Did we find out the code to how you know where there is a booby trap? What it looks like or how to avoid them? Yeah, yeah, there were some tells [?] on some of them that helped us find them, but the Vietcong would put these booby traps in place and they would inform the locals and say, “This is an area where you want to stay away from”, and the locals did. Or, in the case of 11 �the one that injured me--this was a foot trap on the—there was a path between two rows of banana palms. 26:00 We were--in the United States we tend to travel on the right side of the road, in vehicles, and we also tend to travel on the right side of the road when we’re walking on paths and sidewalks, and the Vietcong knew that. They’re smart and they watched us, so they put booby traps, not on the path, but to the side and they put them to the side, so where, if you’re walking on this, because we were told, “Don’t walk on the paths because there’s booby traps in there”. Well, they’re one step ahead of us and now the booby traps off the path where we’re walking. Sometimes you could see them and the one that got me was a foot trap and it was covered with a woven bamboo cover sprinkled over with dirt and I didn’t see it until I stepped in it, and it was rigged to blow up. 27:00 But, sometimes those, if they’ve been there for a while, would kind of get swayback, so as you walk along you’re scanning the ground and you’re looking for little depressions, because the ground was pretty flat and it is clay, it’s hard, I mean firm. A little depression in a clay area, or a flat area, shouldn’t be there and that was one of the tells. Along the banana palms you just look for trip wires and you had to be real careful, because they were clever about hiding trip wires. With the bamboo, they would split bamboo lengthwise and put the explosive charge in between the two halves of the bamboo and let it come back together naturally and then there would be a trip wire. A lot of times these were placed shoulder high with the trip wires up here, and we’re, of course, looking for the ones that are down there on the ground, because we’re use to finding them on the ground, so then you run into it with your head. 28:02 Interviewer: Having to be real careful walking along, how far could you go, in say, an hour? 12 �I never really measured that and I don’t know. We’d go out at first light and we’d come back when the sun was going down and we’d be on the move most of the day with the stops in between. If we found booby traps, we’d blow them up. The engineers were with us and they’d just put composition C-4 on it and it would blow it. If we found spider holes, they were little holes in the ground where snipers would jump out, we’d blow those. A lot of those spider holes, we found out later, I found out later after I was back home, that they, actually, were connected to underground tunnel networks. We didn’t realize that at first when we were there, we thought they were just holes dug in the ground and the snipers would get in these holes at nighttime, and then when it got daylight an the Marines came by, or the United States forces came by they would lift the lid up enough to get a rifle shot off and then they’d drop back in the hole. 29:08 Well, these are all located in tree lines and foliage, so they’re not easy to see from any distance. If you’re not looking in the direction where the spider holes are, you don’t see the lid go up and down. Occasionally the lid would come up and you might be able to get a visual on that particular area, but most of the time you didn’t see them. So, it was probing, you know, we’d know that they were there someplace, so we’d go and we’d probe with the rifles with bayonets, and we’d just kind of poke and look for something, and these covers would come loose and we’d put explosives in them and destroy them. Interviewer: You mentioned that was you were out on one of these patrols, you actually stepped on one of the booby traps and did you have medics as part of your patrol group” 30:07 We did, we had a navy corpsman and he was attached to our platoon. He went with us whenever we went out, in fact, he was with us all the time, he was kind of like our base 13 �doctor. If we had any medical issue, we’d go and see Doc Cooper. We never knew his first name; we just always called him Cooper. But, he was with us on all of our field operations and I will tell you, he was busy every day. We took casualties every day. As a matter of fact, the unit I was assigned to, Delta Company of the 1st Battalion, 9th Marine Regiment. 1-9, the 1st Battalion of the 9th, had the nickname “The walking dead” and that came directly from Vietnam. That unit, that 9th Marine Regiment, had over ninety percent casualties during its tour in Vietnam, during its two and a half years that it served in Vietnam. 31:07 Of the people assigned to that regiment ninety percent, well, it was about ninety two percent, that were injured, or killed. We held the record for the Marines and about eighty three or eighty four percent of those casualties were from booby traps, and most of them came from Hill 55 and the—well, Dodge City. Then there was another area and I forget what that was called now, but that was a little farther south and a little bit more to the west, but it was also very hot as far as booby traps were concerned. Interviewer: Out on these patrols, did you ever encounter ambush situations? No, while I was there, the only encountering we ran into was snipers and booby traps. 32:00 No firefights, no rockets, no mortars, it was pretty quiet most of the time, except when we triggered something. Now, you asked a little earlier about medevac and the medics. We had medical support, we had corpsmen with us, and in the case of injuries we always would call in a medevac chopper. They responded and were with us very shortly, in five or—well, closer to ten minutes. People were transported to a field hospital somewhere around Da Nang; I’m not sure where that was. In my case I was injured, medevac came in, and they took me to this field hospital. The doctors did a quick look at me, made an assessment and said, “There’s nothing we can do here for this 14 �one, he needs to go to the hospital ship”. 33:00 At that time, Hospital Ship Repose was stationed just off shore at Da Nang and it was in the South China Sea. So, I was put back on the medevac and out to the hospital ship. I was there for about ten days and then I was transferred back to the United States on an air force C-130 I believe it was, Star Lifter. I don’t know what the number is, but it was a big ship that was rigged up as an inflight hospital. It took a load of casualties back to the states. Interviewer: Once you were out at Hill 55 then you didn’t have an opportunity to go back to off the lines area, you went directly, due to your injury, on the way back? Before you went out to Hill 55 did you have an opportunity for any leave, or recreation? No, R&R was available after about six months, roughly, to the Marines at that time. 34:05 I was only there two months before I was injured, so I missed going to Bangkok and Pearl Harbor, and Honolulu and Saigon. Actually, Saigon was a destination city and I didn’t get to go there either. Not like Bud Baker, his story, and it was an R&R town also. But, I was never eligible; I hadn’t served long enough, so I didn’t get any R&R. Interviewer: The first couple of months did you interact with the local, the natives, to any extent? Not much, and of course, when we were on patrols, you know, we tried to leave a soft footprint, we tried to do our job, yet not disturb them very much, although our presence was intrusive. 35:00 The little people were fascinated, the young ones, the children, were fascinated by the American military and primarily because of the size. The Vietnamese people are very small and the American military’s—we had a lot of big guys. The Vietnamese were very sensitive to skin color. In their own ethnic groups skin color 15 �is very important to them and they were fascinated by the black Americans, they wanted to touch the black Americans and the American Indians, Native Americans, because they had kind of a rusty orangish kind of complexion, and the Hispanics. They were just curious about that, it was something they hadn’t seen, so they were fascinated by that. 36:02 The little ones would come up and they would put their hands up, they wanted to touch. Of course, they were poor and so, they were always looking for handouts. Some of the early military people had handed out gum, or candy and so, the word got around that the Americans are coming along, you come up, put your hand out and maybe you’ll get something, it depends on the individuals. We were told to not do that and, “don’t encourage that kind of thing”. It was, really, a sadness, because they were beautiful little children, very poor, but yet, if they were around us and somebody started shooting at us, they were in the way as well, so it was better for them to just not to be where we were. 37:00 They were curious and they would come a running. Interviewer: During the time you were in Vietnam di you communicate regularly with your family back in Niles? Yah, I tried to write, I tried to write a couple of times a week. We didn’t have any particular time when we could do it, just a few minutes now, or then. We had mail call about every other day and it took about ten days for a letter to transfer from Vietnam to home, or from home to Vietnam. My mother was real good about sending care packages, cookies and gum, some things that made the day go along, you know, some deodorant, some razor blades, safety razors, and that kind of stuff. We always shared that with everybody. 38:02 If I got some cookies, whoever happened to be around, we’d pass those around. We did not have the kinds of set ups that are here today, there was no e- 16 �mail, there were not computers, there were no telephones. There was a military channel available for emergencies that would hook into shortwave radio setups in the United States and in foreign countries and they could patch communication s through from Vietnam back to the US, but that was a real cumbersome thing, it was difficult to get it together and it was almost not available to everybody. It was just a very serious emergency kind of contact, but it did work, so we relied on letters, cards and letters. Interviewer: Now, when you wrote your letters and did your communication, did you get the family and accurate picture of the dangerous situation you were in, or did you try to keep a lighter face on it? 39:08 Well, I tried to be positive about it, but I told them what was going on and some of the things that were hazards. They knew, when you’re in a combat situation, people have a general understanding that it’s a dangerous place. They may not know the specifics of what’s going to cause the cause the danger, or what might be the concentration. You know, I can talk about a booby trap , but maybe in their minds, you know, they think of booby traps as being everyplace, no matter where you step, no matter where you stand, no matter where you sit down, or what you touch. It’s a perspective kind of thing, so it’s difficult, sometimes, to not create fear, or alarm, but at the same time, I try to be accurate. 40:08 Telling about what was going on, telling about the people, the plants and the animals, and the food that we were eating, and the work that we were doing. I invited them all to come to Vietnam on a visiting tour when the war was over, it’s a beautiful country. Interviewer: Have you gone back? I went back in April of this year, yes sir, an absolutely beautiful country. 17 �Interviewer: What was your feeling as you landed there this time? It was a little different and, actually, I was glad to go back. I went with a group of other veterans and our spouses and we got into Vietnam, it was a guided tour, guided by people who had been there before, a group of United States Marine veterans that started a company out of Texas and they take groups back to Vietnam. 41:00 We were curious, all of us who had served there, we had the curiosity of what was it like now compared to what it was like in the sixties , or seventies, when we were there and, of course, there were very few relics, or remnants of the war, it’s mostly gone, except in certain areas that are set aside kind of like museums, little museums and you could go there and see some of the artifacts that were collected during the war. For the most part, it’s a vibrant country, it’s got new buildings, everything was destroyed during the war—I can’t say everything, but most everything was destroyed in the war, so in the last thirty-five years, or so, all this is new. The population is very young, as an average, and all of the young people came after the war, so their memory is of different things. 42:03 The older citizens remember the war and we had occasion to talk to a lot of the older Vietnamese people, those that had lived in South Vietnam, some that had lived in North Vietnam, we talked to North Vietnam army soldiers, veterans, and we talked with Vietcong veterans. Interviewer: How did that interaction go? Surprisingly, it was a very comfortable setting. We kind of thought they might hold anger and have a retaliatory sense about them, but not at all. They were—the Vietnamese people—well, a large part of the population is Buddhist, not all of them by any means, but a large part is Buddhist and there is a sense of living in the present. 43:01 They live today, they cherish their history, in fact, we saw buildings there that were two and three 18 �thousand years old and still being used, religious structures, but these folks tend to live in the present and they had moved beyond the war. They said the war was over. Their goal was achieve, the North Vietnamese goal was achieve, that is, get the foreign powers out of the country, get them out, and of course they did, so they were successful and they were happy with their victory, and they claim it as such. The liberation forces won, according to them, and that was true. They reunited the North and South Vietnam into one Vietnam. South Vietnam’s government crumbled and was taken over by the communists. 44:03 But, the people, they’re hard working, their industrious, they’re clever, they have a beautiful sense of humor, they’re, in a modern sense—it was interesting to see, they pack cell phones like we have cell phones here and they—you go out through the countryside and you see a straw, or a palm thatched hooch, house, and up on top of it is a satellite dish. They’re living the old way, yet they have the new things incorporated. Interviewer: Now, as part of your traveling around, were you able to, or did you have a desire, to go back to some of the areas you patrolled? We did indeed; Vietnam Battlefield Tours sponsored our group. They inventoried us before the trip and they said to us, “Where did you serve? Do you want to go back to where you served? Is there any other place in Vietnam you want to see?” 45:05 they tailored the trip so everybody who went, got to go wherever they wanted to go and they hit it one hundred percent. Every vet got back to where he had served and we had one guy that had served in five different places and we got all five of them. The tour people put it together. They took me back to Da Nang, and actually spent two days there, not just because of me, but because of the surrounding area. We were standing on Hill 55 19 �again and it’s significantly different today, it’s just a lot of grass and weeds, small brush and things like that, all the military stuff is gone. All the bases are dismantled, all firebases are gone, all the landing zones are gone, and all the observation posts are gone with the exception of a few of the air bases that the Vietnamese army is using. 46:02 they’ve maintained the runways and they have the buildings looking sharp, they’ve got them clean and neat, “strack” they call it, and they really take care of it. Interviewer: Getting back to you exit from Vietnam, where did you enter back into the United States? Well, from hospital ship Repose, I was transferred back to—I had my choice of a hospital in California, near Clark airbase, or Bethesda Naval Hospital in Bethesda, Maryland and I chose Bethesda, because it was closer to Michigan. I figured my family would have a better chance of coming to see me, being in Bethesda, as opposed to being in California. I could have gone either place, it was my choice, so I was at Bethesda and I spent about three months there and then I was released to go home. 47:00 Interviewer: Did your family make it out to Maryland? They did, my dad and mom were out, my sis came a couple of friends from college who lived not too far away came over and there was a gal from high school who had moved and was living in Virginia, not too far away, she came to visit. As I got a little better on, after things started to heal a little bit, I was able to get out of there on week-ends, so I was invited to go to a couple of different locations and be guest of the family, these were folks I’d gone to school with. Interviewer: Do you remember the feeling of what it was like to be back on American soil, relief or achievement? 20 �Well, it was interesting, because I came back—when I left the hospital ship I was pretty much blind. 48:00 I could see light, I could see dark, but beyond that I couldn’t, so I knew that it was daylight leaving the hospital ship. When I got to the United States it was dark time. I don’t know what time it was, but it was, as it turned out, sometime in the morning, two o’clock, three o’clock, four o’clock in the morning, something like that, and I was transferred immediately from the airplane, into the ambulance, to the hospital, and through the in processing and into the big squad bay where there were, probably, thirty beds. It was something like that, it was a big long room with beds on either side and there were ten, or twelve, beds on either side, maybe a little bit more. That all happened at night, it all happened when I couldn’t see very much, so my first recollections were just sounds. 49:01 Sounds of the airport, sounds of the ambulance, sounds of the people talking and equipment being moved around and so on, and then I was in bed. It was weeks, literally, before I could see well enough to even know what the room looked like, or have a chance to look outside. It was summertime, it was, probably, July by then and that was, probably, the first time where I could look out and see grass and green trees and recognize them as being part of the United States and not bamboo, or banana palms, which were the dominant vegetation in the Da Nang area. Interviewer: Now, then you say your rehabilitation there took three months? Roughly Interviewer: Then once you were released from the hospital, was that the end of your obligation in the service? 50:03 No, no, I’m still receiving treatment. I had damage to both eyes and my ears. I go once a year to the Kellogg Eye Center in Ann Arbor for assessment. I just had a laser procedure 21 �done on my right eye here in October, late October last year, to remove some scarring that occurred a long time ago, but it was getting worse on the little membrane that cover the lens , which is inside the eye. So, I had that work done and I’ve had corneal transplants, I’ve had an inner ocular lens put in one side and the work has all be, basically, to my eyes. 51:01 I’ve lost a little bit of hearing, but I’m not bad enough yet that I have to wear hearing aids and I’m okay with that right now, but it’s an ongoing thing. I put eye drops in every day, my left eye, which is the one we did the corneal transplant, that’s on going, that’s forever. I was pretty fortunate, with the damage that was done; the doctors did a pretty good job of salvaging me and the eyes and then actually rebuilding one of the eyes. I use my left eye now, primarily, my right eye is kind of a spare, it goes with me, but it doesn’t do much. I’m trying to encourage it to come back on line, but so far. Interviewer: After the three months in the hospital though, were you released from the Marine Corps? I was put on medical reserve. The technical thing was, I was reassigned and they didn’t want me to go back on active duty, because of my injuries. 52:02 I was put on medical reserve and about a year later I had to go to a VA hospital in, I went to Southfield, which is southwest of Detroit and went through a physical examination there. It was determined that the injuries I had were permanent, so at that point I was discharged, well following the paperwork process, I was discharged for medical reasons. It’s not the same, technically it’s like an honorable discharge, but it’s not. I mean, there’s no penalty associated with it, they don’t call it honorable because it wasn’t honorable it was because of medical. I got a medical discharge and that was the last time I was there. 53:01 22 �About five years after that I had to fill out some paper work and send it through, with a statement from an optometrist, no an ophthalmologist, an eye doctor, regarding the condition of my eyes, but I haven’t heard anything from them since. I get disability compensation ever since, well, ever since I got back, it started right away. Interviewer: Then when you were released you came back to the Niles area? Actually, I came back to Niles only for a very short time. I had earned some GI Bill benefits, I hadn’t graduated from college, so I went back to school with the idea of graduating and I didn’t do a good job of it, I failed, flunked out again, so then I went to work. I was in Albion and I went to work in a factory there, just labor, punch presses and spot welders, and things of that nature, and not knowing what I was going to do. 54:09 I’d pretty much burned my bridges at Albion and I didn’t have a degree, I didn’t have anything I could market, as far as job training was concerned. My vision wasn’t good. I thought at one time I might go into the state police and that was before I was in the service, but I thought about doing that, but I couldn’t go into the state police now, because of my visual impairment, so that was not available to me. So, I just kind of got a job and got through the day and paid the bills, you know, just lived day by day not knowing what I was going to do. Then I had an opportunity to go to a wedding, my best friend's brother was getting married. 55:01 I was invited to his wedding and it was going to be in Lansing. I was seeing a young lady at the time, so I asked her if she would go with me to this wedding. She said she would, so we went up to Lansing. We were there enjoying the day with our friends, my friends, and she was just meeting these people. Well, as it turns out, my friend's dad worked in the school system and he had become friends with the superintendent in that school system and the superintendent had 23 �been invited to the wedding. While I was there we got into a conversation with my friend's dad about needing some teachers to fill certain positions in the school, so my friends dad said, “Well, you need to talk to Willy Bill”, and that was the girl that I was dating, “she’s a teacher, maybe she’ll come and teach for you”. Well, the superintendent did talk to Wilma and she said, “I can’t, I’ve got a contract for this year, but you should talk to Denny, he’s got a science background, you’re looking for a science teacher and he’s got a major in Biology”. 56:09 So, the superintendent came to me and said, “would you be interested in teaching high school Biology?” I had never thought about doing that and I said, “I’ll have to think about it”, and he said, “Well, you come down to our school on Monday about two o’clock and you can meet with the high school principal and you can let us know and in the meantime you think about it”. So, I did and I went in and met with the principal and he said, “Here, let me show you the room you’re going to work in”, so we went to look at the old-- and this was an old high school. I went to look at the old science lab and he said, “I have to go, I have to meet with some parents, and when you’re done go see Janet”, who was the secretary. He said, “She’s got a contract there and some books that you can take a look in”. 57:04 Well, this was in August and school started about two weeks later, so I signed the contract. I had no idea what I was going to do , but I was eligible to teach in Michigan at that time, under the law. I had over a hundred and twenty semester hours of course work, I was a double major and I could qualify as a full time substitute under the guidelines that were in effect then. Quite honestly, they were looking for most anybody that would walk in off the street, the way it worked out. I went to school there, I taught three years and then I had to go back to school, because the state laws changed and now teachers, who were full time teachers, 24 �had to be fully certified. 58:00 So, now after teaching three years I had to go back to school and get certified to be a teacher, which I did. I went back to Albion, and I had written them a letter and asked them if I could come back and finish up, and they were gracious enough to give me another chance. So, after being a senior four different times, I graduated. Then I had to do student teaching, which I did, and then I was a full time teacher, although I continued to take education classes. I had to get twenty some hours of education work to make my license permanent, so I did that in the first two years that I was teaching. I mean it would have been the fourth and fifth year, and then I continued on and I was a public school teacher for thirty one years before I retired. Interviewer: Back in this area? In Eau Claire, yes, I was teacher, coach, councilor, vice principle for three and a half years, and adjunct faculty for Lake Michigan College. 59:01 I taught biological science, I had a pretty good career as a teacher, and I, quite honestly, I fell into it because of being at that wedding, the superintendent of Eau Claire being there at that wedding, and the gal that I was dating having already signed a contract, otherwise it might have gone a different direction. Interviewer: So, did your military experiences help you any with your life afterward? Yes, self-discipline, getting through Marine Corps boot camp and AIT was a challenge, it was a serious challenge and it pushed me beyond what I thought my limits were. Vietnam was another serious challenge and that put me way beyond what I thought my limits were. 60:00 The discipline that developed out of that and the awareness that you can go farther than you think you are able to go, I think helped out, especially in the 25 �coaching end of things. It was easier for me to encourage the young people to work hard and to keep working hard even though things might not be going their way. Try to be positive about stuff and look for a way to get the job done and don’t complain about what you’re doing. If you got a job to do, find a way to get it done and do it legally and do it fairly, do it within the rules. Yeah, it helped that way. Interviewer: Is there anything else you would like to recall? Only that every once in a while I get a pang of guilt about not serving thirteen months. That was the tour duty and I only served two months. 1:00 Interviewer: That passes pretty rapidly though doesn’t it? I’ve learned to manage it, but it didn’t seem right, you know, three months in basic training, a month in AIT, and almost a month on the ship going over. Almost four months in the hospital after being injured and I was only in country two months and somehow it doesn’t balance out. But, that’s one of those existential karma things that I don’t spend a lot of time with. I’m a very fortunate person, I could have been dead, I could have been maimed in such a way that my life would have been way different and it just turned out that I had a pretty good life, so I’m okay with it, and we get to do these things too—be good people. Going back, if you’re interested in going back, get in touch with this “Vietnam Battlefield Tours” group. I can get you a contact if you want to find out about it. 2:00 It was a very interesting experience. It was fun, it was educational, we saw lots and lots of stuff that was cultural, and we got into places that the average tourist couldn’t get into, because they, over the years, made connections with the Vietnamese government. We had to have certain permissions; we had government provided interpreters, tour guides, which was real interesting, because these people have 26 �to be very careful what they say, because they work for the government. Although it’s not intrusive, it’s interesting to note that the world in Vietnam is controlled by the communist party. For example, if you want to vote in an election, you’re welcome to vote. You register like here, you go to the polling place, you can cast your ballot and you can vote. 3:03 However, you do not have a choice as to who the candidates are going to be, there are no primaries. The party politic picks the people who are going to be the candidates and you can vote for them, or not, but you only get to vote for one person, because that’s the only candidate that’s going to be on the ballot for that job in that location. You can work, you can earn a living, you can keep most of it, you have to pay taxes like we do here, but you can gain wealth and it’s a pretty interesting country. The food is great—beautiful tourism; there are beaches, beautiful beaches on the South China Sea. The hotels we stayed in were all four star, five star hotels with several floors, six, seven, eight, nine floors. They’re all new within the last thirty years, or so. 4:02 There is hot water, all you want, refrigeration, air conditioning, television, e-mail, internet, and it’s a buzzing town with lots and lots of street vendors, and they love to sell you stuff. You’ve got to be careful with the street vendors, because there are so many of them and they have—they’ll sell you whatever you need and they come from everywhere. We were out at this one observation post, I don’t remember where it was now exactly, centered in the central part of Vietnam, and we were headed south on our bus. We stopped here just because it was a spot that use to be pretty important in the war and now it’s just overgrown with grass and vines and stuff, but there were still a couple of French bunkers in there and there were still a couple of—they’re knocked down pretty much now, but firing positions that had been put together. 5:05 27 This is out—no villages, no �hamlets, there’s nothing, you got this road going down through this open area, and here’s this hill off to the side. We stopped and went up the hill and we turned and looked back down and where the bus was and around the bus were about fifteen, or so, of these street vendors on bicycles. Where did they come from? There were no buildings; there was nothing around where they could have been hiding. I don’t know where they came from, but there they were and, of course, they wanted to sell us stuff. It’s fun, it really is, and I’d say to go, you pay one money, it pays your room, your travel, all your food, and the only expenses you have in addition to that would be tips for the drivers if you wanted that, or stuff that you buy from the vendors, or at meals if you want an alcohol cocktail or a drink, that’s not included. 6:10 Teas is included in the—soft drinks are included; water is included, bottled water, so if you don’t drink beer, or whiskey you save a lot of money. I’m done unless you have other questions. Interviewer: No, I don’t think so and thank you very much. 6:31 28 �29 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KimeD Title A name given to the resource Kime, Denton (Interview transcript and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kime, Denton Description An account of the resource Denton Kime was born on March 11, 1942 in Niles, Michigan. After graduating from high school in 1960, Kime attended Albion College, although he did not graduate because he failed to complete some of the graduation requirements. Once out of Albion, Kime received his draft notification and after joining the Marines, went to the Recruit Depot San Diego for training. After completing his basic and advanced training, Kime deployed to Vietnam and spent his entire tour in the area around the city of Da Nang. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Massa, Richard (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-01-14 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c630011abb715331e09c97427fd056df.mp4 59bd8554cec864dbdf9b96767b3bc626 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8deeb5c6141098a35f8d251e71475434.pdf bbc171173ad4b99553d3880ea6afd065 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW DORA KILMER Born: 1924 in Plymouth, England. Resides: Grand Rapids, Michigan Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project Transcribed by: Claire Herhold, January 17, 2013 Interviewer: Dora, can you begin with some background on yourself? To start with, where and when were you born? I was born in 1924 which makes me 88 next June, and my father was a deep sea fisherman. The whole family, for generations, were deep sea fishermen, and he would go away for a week and come home for a day and a half, and it was always exciting every week to be able to see him. Interviewer: And what port did you live in? Plymouth. During the war, my father was commandeered, called up even though he was forty something because of his knowledge of the sea, because the young officers didn‟t really have it and so they just really liked him because he was able to help them so much. 1:03 And he was made a warrant officer, and then after the war he went back to his living again. But five years after the war, his ship hit a mine that had never been swept and they all disappeared. And his brother was on the ship too. But anyway, he had a hard life. You know, fishing is a hard life. Interviewer: During the 1930s, you have the Depression and the economic problems and so forth. Because of the nature of his job, could he always make a living? Yes, yes. And my mother was a wonderful manager and she…Before the war, like you say, we knew it was coming and they were digging air raid shelters in 1938, and then it started in 1939. 2:03 Interviewer: And what kind of education did you have? �Well, I had elementary school and then, at ten or ten and a half in England you all take a scholarship, and if you pass the scholarship you get to go to high school. And it‟s sad really, because children even committed suicide over it, you know, and it divided sisters and brothers. But fortunately my sister, she passed and I passed, and we went to Plymouth High School which was the top of the list, because depending on where you passed was which school you were eligible to go to, so I was very lucky there. But we had to wait three months for the results, and believe me…I knew I‟d passed the math but I wasn‟t so sure about the essays and all that. But anyway, my mother was scrubbing the floor because it was a Monday and she…after the washing and all that, she‟d scrub the floor. 3:06 And she was scrubbing the floor and I came home, and I guess I was a bit of a devil, and I said, “We got our results but I didn‟t pass.” And she was scrubbing harder and she said, “Well, if you did your best that‟s all you can do.” And here I did very well, really. So, anyway. Interviewer: So how did you finish that then? Well, you were supposed to stay then until you were like 18, 17 and take your O-levels and everything like that, but my sister who was two years and eight months older than me, she left school when she was 15 and she worked in an office and was making money. And I was so jealous that I kept on to my father all the time and he finally took me to Prior‟s Academy and I took a twelve month course there, which I finished in six months because I was so thrilled. It was shorthand and typing and business. 4:00 And then I worked for a gas company for the next six years. Interviewer: My original question was, you were playing a trick on your mother. You came home, you said you didn’t pass. Now was there a punch line? �Oh yes, because then I told her right…what I was so tickled about was she just said, “well, if you did your best.” I always remember that. And then I said, “No, no, mum. I did pass.” They had a lot to put up with with me, I think. Interviewer: When the war actually starts then, in ’39, how long was it before they called up your father and made him go in? I think it was maybe a year or two. I‟m not sure exactly, but I think it was a year or two. Interviewer: Was he involved simply with training people or did he go out on ships? No, no, he was actually on a … you know, we had a lot of convoys around England because, you know, we didn‟t have enough food for everybody, even rationing. 5:05 And he was on an escort vessel, anti-submarine, and many a time, many a time, he would be…his ship and a couple of…because the Germans used to come over on E-boats from France, because they were in France, and they would glide in on their engines so the radar stuff didn‟t do any good, and they would, you know, just destroy the ships. And he was lucky that way, but he went through a lot. But what was so awful is that he didn‟t know what was happening to us while he was gone, because we had such bad air raids, and one time they came… he came into our port and they couldn‟t come in to land because of the devastation of the bombing and he didn‟t know. I remember his face, it was utterly gray when he came and found we were all right, because it was such a bad raid. 6:05 And so, it was hard. Interviewer: Was he sailing on Atlantic convoys, or just convoys along the English coast? Just around the coast. And they had commandeered a private ship for the Navy, the one he was on, and then fitted it out with all their equipment, and because of my father‟s age he was demobilized immediately when the war ended and they had a skeleton crew on it going back to �its owners, its civilian owners, and it collided with a destroyer and went down, and after it had been through all that time. Interviewer: When he was on that duty, how long would he be gone? Oh, sometimes several weeks because they went into different ports, I guess. He went over on D-day as an escort ship too. 7:03 But his life was cut off when he was fifty…fifty six he was, it was in 1950. Interviewer: Once the war started, how quickly was it before the Germans started to attack Plymouth? Our first air raid was in June, the next year. Interviewer: 1940? 1940. And from then on it got to be relentless. We had in our town, we had 70,000 houses bombed. That‟s a lot. And fifty churches. And a lot of people killed, and the worst raids were in 1941, in March and April. April was the worst and then they just flattened the whole business section of the city. In fact, after the war they were able to just redesign the whole thing. Interviewer: Where did your family live? We lived in a district…you know, they‟d go by churches then. 8:02 We lived in a district, St. Jude‟s, and it was about, I would say, about a mile from the city, so you know, we had…I know we had our windows shot out of our house, one side, you know, from when they hit a church that was close by and we had fire bombs that we used to put out with stirrup pumps and we got so good at that, because they used to drop them in what, like, you call baskets, thousands at a time, and we got so good at that that the Germans put an explosive nose in some of them, but you never knew which it was so you couldn‟t go out with your stirrup pump. You had to use sand bags, and wait to see if it was going to explode or not. Well, we got pretty good at that too, so �then they bombed us with phosphorous bombs. You‟d think you‟d got it out and the next thing it would flare up again. I don‟t understand how that works, but it did. 9:01 Interviewer: What did your family do if the air raid sirens went off? And you eventually were an air raid warden, so you’re working, but what did the family do when the raids happened? Well, the government, they would reinforce a cellar in every so many houses because we were row houses, you know. And they would reinforce and they were supposed to do ours. Well, the day they were supposed to do it, my great-uncle who lived in the same house as us, died suddenly and so they did the next door. But my mother always said later that she wished they‟d gone ahead and done ours because she had…my brother was only three at the time, three or four years old, and she‟d have to get him up and she used to try to get…well, she made me get up. I‟d rather have stay in bed, I was always so tired. But we used to, several families would come there, and I used to just lay on the floor with a cushion, you know and we‟d stay there. 10:08 I hated that. In fact, I didn‟t realize it, when I became a warden I was glad to be out and see what was going on. You know, when the bombs…the bombs come down like this. Well, when the plane comes toward you, you can be… if you‟re going to be scared, be scared then, because when it got overhead and passed by you didn‟t have to worry anymore until the next wave came around. And I liked…when you‟re in a shelter, you don‟t know what‟s going on. All you hear‟s all this racket and the whistles of the bombs and everything. Interviewer: How long would the raids last? Oh, several hours. And a lot of times, they would be just alerts because they would be passing over, probably to go to Birmingham or something and so…but, I don‟t know, we kind of used to �try to judge whether we needed to get up and go to the shelter, but that was only at night. 11:06 We never did during the day. We just carried on with everything. Interviewer: When the war started, you were working in an office in the city at that point? Yes. Interviewer: What business did you work for then? It was Plymouth & Stonehouse Gas Company, and the gas works were in Plymouth, not where the offices were. And our office was a great big building in the middle of the town, and when the town was destroyed they bombed…ours was completely destroyed, but we had a strong room downstairs that we used to keep all the ledgers every night. And the men firewatched during the night, so they got a lot of stuff out. And so, then we had to go find…all these businesses had to find places, private homes and all that, but we had a little shop it was, actually. 12:00 It was a four story tall, like a row building too, and it had … and that‟s where we moved to, but I didn‟t know that when we were first bombed out. You know, you didn‟t have telephones and so you just had to kind of try to find somebody who knew whether we‟d set up business again. And then when we moved there, the men firewatched at night and the women, of which there weren‟t very many because before the war it was just men in the office because they would start a boy from one of the high schools on his career, and they told me it was a temporary job when I first got it. And then about a year later, the secretary (that‟s really the head one), he sent for me and said my job was permanent. 13:02 That made me feel good. Interviewer: How did you wind up becoming an air raid warden? Well, one of the boys in the office, he was called up later, but he and I used to go to movies together, we were just really good friends, and so he suggested that we went to these classes. Now he lived in a different area than I did, so we didn‟t go to the same post but that‟s how I �became an air raid warden. But that‟s not a full time job, you see, but every time the siren went off at night you had to go, or you went, you know. Interviewer: What did the classes consist of? What were they teaching you? Well, first aid and make sure everybody‟s light was out, you know. You had to patrol to see all the lights were blacked out in the houses because you couldn‟t show a chink of light and then they also…we had to take of elderly people and get them to a shelter, and things like that you know. 14:09 Patrol the street, things like that. But yet the air raid post itself, we had our…we used to play table tennis in the next building that this was adjoined to, and we used to have dances every once in a while and social gatherings and so, even then, we made fun of that. In fact, I dated a boy from there that was one of the air raid wardens, and he used to see me home and then we‟d do our smooching outside the back door and then later on, after the raid was over, he‟d see me home again. And my mother used to say, “That air raid, that siren, you know, the all-clear went off a long time ago. What took you so long?” It was all, you know, very innocent. Interviewer: When the air raids were actually happening, would you be outside? 15:04 Yes. Interviewer: Ok. So you were at that point trying to help people get to shelters. Yes. We didn‟t go into the post at all during the air raid, but we had certain times of the week we did duty there, you know, just in regular time. But the nearest I was to a bomb was, the air raid post I was at was in the recreation area that had once been kind of marshy, I guess, years ago, and they dropped this, I don‟t know if it was a land mine…it was a heck of a big bomb, and I was seeing this elderly lady to the shelter and the blast, it was from here out to the end of Zena‟s house out in the yard, that far. Just that close, and the blast blew us down the steps into the shelter. We were alright, but we were covered with all the wet silt stuff, like or mud…no �mud, it was black, it was wet. 16:04 I guess it was the bomb went so deep that it got up the marshy stuff underneath. Interviewer: And actually it’s quite possible that the wet soil might have something to do with why you didn’t get more badly hurt. Yes, well I‟m sure of that, I‟m pretty sure of that because we were pretty close to that bomb. Interviewer: At what point did Americans start coming into Plymouth? That was in nineteen forty…maybe the end of 1943, and then I met Harry in early ‟44. And it was such an unusual way I met him because we had companion posts and there was the other post that was a companion to ours and the head warden there was, his son was going to be eighteen and was going to go off to the war next day, so they had rented, or not rented, they had had his party in the school and he wanted more girls there. 17:04 But I didn‟t know there were going to be Americans there, I never once dreamed, you know. But in his private life his was a news agent and his son used to go and deliver papers and he got friendly with these Americans. Well, this other girl at the post, she said, “Well, I‟d like to go but I‟m not going to go unless you go.” So I thought, well ok. And so I put on a red silk dress and then went to pick her up on the way, and because I was late, I‟m always late, her mother said, “Well, she‟s gone already.” And I can remember standing there and thinking, I don‟t really want to go. But I did because she was kind of a fussy girl and I thought that she‟d be mad at me. So, I went and there were these Americans there and I remember Harry and two others sang a trio, they sang “Carolina Moon” because that‟s where one of them was from, and they did a good job. 18:04 And then we played all these games and he partnered with me every game. And so, then after it was over, that was that. I went home and then the…we had such good eats and you know, anytime you could get good eats during the war it was good so we … the next day, they sent a message over to say to �come over to the post there because they had some of the good eats left, so I went. Well, I didn‟t know that Harry was going to be there and he was and so he saw me home and then we dated and then from then on… Interviewer: What kind of assignment did he have? What was he doing there? He was a motor machinist mate, and they had in the…in Plymouth, a bay, it was called the sound, Plymouth Sound. 19:02 And they had all these landing craft that they used to, they really got to know every bit of it because they repaired them, they conditioned them, they kept them up and ran around in them and everything. And that‟s… they were in Quonset huts down below one of the bridges, and that‟s what they did and then when D-day happened then that was a really important job, you know, because they had to dig a trench and had these little pup tents over it up on top of the hill, oh I forget the name of the beach. And they had to clear the beach and fix them. Interviewer: You mean, over on the French side? Yes. Interviewer: So probably Omaha beach because there’s a big hill. Omaha, that‟s it. Interviewer: So he gets sent over there for a while to work on that? Because for a long time they were using Omaha to move men and supplies back and forth, they kept using the landing craft. 20:08 Yes, he was on that beach for a while, when they…mostly for the first, all the waves going in. But then he went to Saint-Malo and was there for a while, and so he had some experiences. But then his mother had a stroke and after, oh it was in 1945, it was in the spring of 1945, when things were starting to get better, and he was sent home. Well, by that time we were engaged, �and he was sent home because his mother had a stroke. But then he was able to come back again because our wedding had been planned. 21:00 Interviewer: What did your parents think of him? Well, she [Zena Smith] said it all, they didn‟t approve at all, but they liked him, but they didn‟t approve at all, because they didn‟t want me to go away. In fact, people had a hard time asking after me, after I left, because my mother would just break down in tears. It was hard. You see, when you‟re young like that, you‟re in love and that‟s it. You don‟t realize what it‟s like to leave your country and your family. It‟s awful. I don‟t recommend anybody do it. Interviewer: Before we kind of get farther into that part, tell me a little bit about, sort of, daily life in Plymouth during the war. Well, we were rationed and, but fortunately until my father went into the Navy then he brought fish home. 22:02 We always had fish for two days. We didn‟t have any refrigeration so you had to eat it. But it was wonderful. I never got tired of fish, and I think that‟s why I‟ve bee so healthy most of my life is because I had such…fish. We used to eat it for breakfast sometimes even, and I loved it. Interviewer: What did you do when he was off in the Navy then? Well, then there was one of my uncles that was still fishing. He‟d bring us some sometimes, you know, not all the time. And then we had the rations like everyone else. My mother was so good at managing the rations. She really was, because we used to get two shillings and six pence, which I think at that time was a half a dollar. And we used to… you know, if you had five, say, in the household you‟d get a joint on Sunday or maybe a little bit of other meat, but that‟s not very much, you know. 23:01 And then we had one egg a week, sometimes more in the summer. And we had an ounce of butter, two ounces of margarine, two ounces of lard, because we always �made pastry with lard in England, it was used quite a lot. And then we had…I mean, even candy was rationed. You got used to it, you know. You just got used to it. But I didn‟t know about under the counter stuff, like you asked. If that went on, I didn‟t know it. Interviewer: What proportion of the population…did people leave and go other places when Plymouth got bombed? Did other children, people go into the country or elsewhere? Yes, actually, they only had very little evacuation from Plymouth. I don‟t know why. But I know that one time, I think it was in 1944, my father, at that time he must have been out, you know, in the Navy, and he was so worried about us with all the raids and everything, he made us go to the country for two months. 24:14 We couldn‟t wait to get home. My mother said, “I look out one window and I see cows and I look out another and I see cows.” I used to go back to Plymouth every day on the train to my job, and a lot of other people. Well, we packed it after about six weeks, but it gave him the peace for that length of time. Interviewer: Did Plymouth become a target for the German buzz bombs or things like that? Or just the regular planes? No, that was just London, London mostly. And I was in London one time when they had buzz bombs come over. You never knew where they were going to fall. They got used to that too, you know. 25:00 We just carried on during the war, and … I don‟t know, that‟s the time…the age I was then, that‟s the time you‟re dating. Now, it was horrible not to be able to have much clothes. I know my father, when he was in the Navy went to the officers‟ club and got my sister and I the smallest men‟s good pajamas so we didn‟t have to spend coupons on that. And then boyfriends sometimes would give you a few, not for any favors though. Interviewer: When did you actually get married? 1945. �Interviewer: When? After the war was over or while it was still on? Well, it was just about ending. In fact, it was the day after…I didn‟t realize it „til Zena said, it was the day after she got married „cause I was married on August the 2nd. Interviewer: Did the Americans help out with the ceremony? Because Zena got her cake from them. 26:07 No, they didn‟t have anything to do…of course, he was in the Navy, you know. But my mother, I mean, there was a restaurant that used to cater some. You can get, I think…maybe we were allowed extra coupons, I don‟t remember, but that‟s where we had our… oh what am I trying to say? Interviewer: Reception? Yes. Geez, old age. And I was married in the parish church and Harry‟s, one of his buddies was best man. I have a picture here. My sister was bridesmaid. I didn‟t have anybody give me, or lend me a wedding dress. 27:00 Interviewer: Did he have to go home first and leave you behind or how did that work? Yes, he did. Because when the war was over he had to go home. Well, in the meantime I got pregnant and I had, I couldn‟t go until the following April, May because of the age of the baby. She was just a couple months old. And so then we were delayed because we had to go to a seaside resort before we went to Southampton to go get all together and then they had a dock strike in New York and so our ship didn‟t go so we were a couple of weeks in that hotel. And then, I wasn‟t lucky enough, well I don‟t know about lucky after hearing… wasn‟t on the Queen Mary or the Queen Elizabeth. I was on the E. B. Alexander, and it took fourteen days. 28:02 And then the babies, young babies had to be kept in the nursery on the boat, because they weren‟t allowed in the cabins, the little tiny ones like mine was. So they had a sick bay on the �ship and unknown to me during the voyage but I found out towards the end of the voyage, three babies died. So after we got into New York I saw a couple of different babies near my daughter‟s crib and I said, “Oh, I haven‟t seen them.” They said, “They were in sick bay. They‟ve closed sick bay.” Well, what do you think happened then? My daughter got sick. She almost died. She went down to below eleven pounds when she was…by the time she was six months old she was below eleven pounds. I don‟t know how much less than that she was before. And but see, I wouldn‟t have been exposed to that because my husband was going to come to New York to meet me and they told us when we were in Bournemouth with that delay not… they strongly advised us to let the government see us to our destination, not have our husbands meet us, which doesn‟t make sense a bit to me. 29:18 And I had to call him on the phone to tell him this and he said, “No. I‟m coming to meet you. I‟ve got it all arranged.” And I said, “No, no.” You know how you want to do what you‟re supposed to do, do what you‟re told. And if he had met me, she wouldn‟t have gotten sick. They wanted to put her in a hospital in New York, and all I wanted to do was get out of there and get to where I was going and see about it then, so they let me take her, they said if I‟d call a doctor as soon as I got there, which of course I did. And then the doctor was going to put her in hospital and people, Harry‟s friends said, “Oh don‟t let them do that because they‟ve got staph there.” Well, of course I didn‟t even know what staph was. I thought he was talking about … Interviewer: The people and not the infection. 30:01 And then the first meal I had there, these friends had a meal for me and somebody said would you care for some sweet potatoes? And I thought, “Oh my god, they even put sugar in their potatoes.” Now I love them. Interviewer: Do you know what was wrong with your daughter? �Well, yes. It was dysentery. And what they did to, they finally got rid of…I think it‟s called kaopectate. Whatever it is, it‟s some kind of clay that goes down and takes the disease away, and that‟s how…she, it‟s a wonder she didn‟t die. Interviewer: You got very lucky there. What was your husband doing now that he was back from the war? Over here? Well, he was a great mechanic and it fared him well through life. 31:00 But he started, you know, just as a mechanic and didn‟t make very much but before I came over he had…with whatever they get, or whatever he had sent home to save, he was able to put a down payment on this little house. And so we couldn‟t move into it for about two months because right after the war, housing was so short that even if you sold your house you could live in it „til the people got out…it was like a … So I got there in May and we moved into our house in July and I remember we bought some furniture, and the way we did that was …we always did this, if we had to borrow money for furniture we go on that four months, 30, 60, 90, and you didn‟t have to pay any interest. We did that with the department store there and that‟s the way we furnished. Interviewer: And where were you living at that time? 32:00 In Fairmont, West Virginia, which, believe me, was a … well, you know, you go to a coal mining state, and you‟ve been raised by the sea, lived by the sea and that‟s all you‟ve known and then to…that was hard. I‟m not going to say that wasn‟t hard. Interviewer: How long did you stay there? Well, I stayed there for, let me see, I guess forty years. And I didn‟t realize…you know, I always felt I wanted to get out of West Virginia and so I left a lot of friends there that probably, if I‟d had hindsight, you know, I wouldn‟t have left there. But I wouldn‟t have met Zena and it‟s �been so wonderful to meet these war brides. That‟s the highlight of my month to have lunch, and there‟s only so few left. 33:01 Interviewer: Did your husband eventually have his own garage or his own business? Oh yes. He had his own business. He worked…after he was, after about a year, maybe a year and a half, he got a telephone call and it was from some business, automotive, you know, rebuilding business, and offered him a job as over them all, and he wore a suit to work then. And he did very well and eventually he started his own business and he also invented a wonderful thing that, they used to call it, the “methane buster.” And it got patented and it was this machine, this big machine that he invented. They‟d go put it down in the mines and it would turn the methane into regular fuel, so it was a dual purpose. 34:03 A lot of mines use that in West Virginia. Now they couldn‟t use it in the real, real deep mines but they did…they still have it now. And so he was really, really knowledgeable about engines. There wasn‟t a thing he didn‟t know about engines. Interviewer: When you went out to West Virginia, how did the people out there treat you? His family or the ones around? His family were in another town. We were in a town about twenty three miles…his mother was still living and she came and stayed with us for a while. He had two sisters, and his mother spent most of her life with one of them. I mean, most of her later life. And then, it was when I had my third child that she had a stroke just before that, and I was only able to visit her one time and then I had my last child, and so I always know exactly, you know, when she died, because she died… 35:11 But I saw her, and I gave her, fed her some ice cream and things when she was in the hospital, but that was sad. �Interviewer: But were the people in the community welcoming to you? Or did they just think you were strange? Yes, very nice, very nice. I had some funny episodes, you know, things happening. Things I‟d ask for at the store and they‟d scratch their heads. And the bus…I remember the bus was two or three blocks away and I was used to it stopping outside my door in England, a double-decker bus, you know. Oh, and I didn‟t tell you, I wasn‟t supposed to have another child for four years because my first child‟s birth was so difficult but the doctor, he said you probably won‟t get pregnant because your womb is tilted. 36:07 Well, I thought I wouldn‟t get …well, right away. Now here comes number two child. I couldn‟t drive, we didn‟t have a car, not for several years, and so I used to take them both up two or three blocks to get on the bus to go into town. But it was different, you know, just very, very different. And another thing is my husband was a workaholic and I don‟t know but…you know, when you meet someone in a different…you don‟t know that you‟re not really the same, you know? And I can remember always at home you were always there at meal time unless you were gone somewhere else that they knew about, and he would not come home. And we had a phone, I thought that was wonderful, and he wouldn‟t even take the time to call. 37:02 Now, I wasn‟t used to that. And I remember going to the door, you know, I wanted to be a perfect little wife and had the meals nice and I would be at the doorway, furious. So that was hard to get used to, but I got used to it. You get used to anything eventually, if almost as bad as World War Two. And if I called him to say, “Are you going to be home?” because he did, he worked really hard, he was always a worker. And he‟d say “I don‟t know, I don‟t know yet.” I‟d say, “Could you give me an idea of the time because I need to know.” And he‟d say, “Oh sometime between seven and nine.” So it was hard, but as I say, I got used to it. Now I had two children and so I just dealt with it, you know. �Interviewer: Did you get to go back to England? Well, that‟s another thing. Because of the difficult birth of my first child, and the second birth after it, I had terrible inflammation. 38:00 I was in pain. I used to pass out almost on the middle of the floor, and I had two children to take care of. So I went to the doctors and they wanted to operate. Well, I didn‟t have anyone to take of the two children, although my neighbors, I know the neighbors we were so friendly with would have, but there was two of them and I…so I elected to go home and have it. And so I took the two babies home and I went on the Queen Elizabeth and it didn‟t have stabilizers and they got seasick, I got seasick, Jennifer came down with a whooping cough on the way over. And so when I went through customs in Southampton the officers, you know, they used to really look in your bags then and he started to open it up and I saw my father over behind the barrier and I started crying. He just x-ed everything and sent me on my way. 39:01 Then I went home again in ‟56 and the girls were nine and ten, or … yeah, nine and ten, and my little boy was four years old. And one of our friends said, “when you see somebody over in England you say to them „up your bloody buckets, jocko.‟” I said you shouldn‟t tell them that. I guess they were over in England and somebody had said that or something. It‟s “up your buttocks,” actually, but “buckets,” so here‟s Tommy saying, “up your bloody buckets, jocko,” and they‟d say, “what did you say, my dear?” I had good friends, they were just mischievous. Anyway, and then I didn‟t get to home again until 1961 when I went by myself then because the bishop of West Virginia was taking some ministers and their wives over with them on kind of a pilgrimage where they‟d go into parishes over there. 40:06 And they had some seats left over and I got to go over, fly over, that‟s the first time I flew for $125, and then I went, you know, down to my home then and while they were doing their thing. And later on �some of those parishes, they did the same thing from over there, and I helped to entertain a really nice minister and his wife from somewhere in England. Life goes on, doesn‟t it? Interviewer: Yes, and thanks for a good story here. Anything else you’d like to add to the record here, before we close out? Well, for the record I would like to say that in 1944 Glenn Miller performed for the troops in Plymouth at the theater and, Harry was in France, so it must have been later in ‟44, and so one of his buddies that didn‟t go over took me to this because it was for servicemen, you know. 41:11 And oh, that show was fabulous. Glenn Miller, I mean, he played “String of Pearls” and all this stuff and then he signed autographs, but I didn‟t go up and get an autograph. I wish I had, but whoever was taking me needed…and so, the picture was in the paper, and then that was the last performance he ever gave. And you know, he was famous, Glenn Miller, and they made a movie about him after. But his plane was on the way over to Paris to arrange for the band to come over to entertain the troops and never got there. God, that‟s horrible isn‟t it. 42:00 Interviewer: Well, thank you very much for taking the time to tell me your story today. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KilmerD1343V Title A name given to the resource Kilmer, Dora (Interview transcript and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kilmer, Dora Description An account of the resource Dora Kilmer was born in Plymouth, England, in 1924. After high school, she worked for a gas company in the office and eventually worked as an air raid warden. As an air raid warden, she patrolled outside and assisted others in getting into the shelters during the raids. She met an American soldier stationed there and married him in 1945 towards the end of the war. Eventually, she went back to the US with her husband and lived in West Virginia, and eventually Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-01 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bbfbe8b5d3ea961249bee80f8cd206f0.mp4 ed24d4ef369e3617e8bc7dec2831041f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/90c7712fe8113fcfb1d57bd9980d9652.pdf 0bab37e033b7c4c677fce360b25a909c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Greg Kiekintveld Vietnam War Interview Length: (01:44:25:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:12:00)   Kiekintveld was born in Holland, Michigan in May 1949 (00:00:12:00) o While Kiekintveld was growing up, his mother was a stay-at-home mom who sold Avon products on the side and his father worked for the post office, first as a mail carrier then as a supervisor (00:00:24:00) o Growing up, Kiekintveld attended public schools and graduated from Holland High School in 1968 (00:00:43:00) After he graduated from high school, Kiekintveld spent some time building houses before he was drafted into the military (00:00:57:00) o Kiekintveld had a 1A draft status all the way through high school, although he should have had a student deferment; this meant that once Kiekintveld was out of high school, colleges and universities did not even look at him (00:01:07:00)  Kiekintveld and his family argued with the draft board that he should have a student deferment but they eventually gave up when they were told that they could not sue the draft board (00:01:33:00) o Initially, Kiekintveld tried to join the SeaBees (Naval engineers) because he figured they would be easier than enlisting in the Army; however, there was a long wait list of draftees trying to join the SeaBees (00:01:50:00) o Kiekintveld does not remember exactly when he received his draft notice but he was officially drafted in March 1969 (00:02:04:00)  Kiekintveld had already gone through a military physical while he was still in high school (00:02:26:00)  While at the physical, Kiekintveld does not recall anyone trying to actively beat the system and get a draft status other than 1A; mostly, the men were complaining that they did not want to be drafted (00:02:54:00)  Once he was officially drafted, Kiekintveld went through another physical and he recalls the man behind him asking if he could cut in front of Kiekintveld so he could stand by his friend (00:03:04:00)  Kiekintveld did not care and let the man cut him; however, the recruiters eventually counted off one through ten and had the tenth man step forward to join the Marine Corps and lo and behold, that man was the tenth man (00:03:15:00)  Kiekintveld recalls another man had a bad limp because one of his legs was shorter than the other; however, the man was still drafted because the recruiters said the man could be a clerk (00:03:43:00) � Following the second physical, Kiekintveld and the other draftees spent the night in Detroit and the following day, they were bused to Fort Knox, Kentucky to begin their basic training (00:04:05:00) o The reception that Kiekintveld and the other draftees received at Fort Knox was the typical reception that all new draftees received; the draftees were now the military‟s and they were told to forget their civilian lives (00:04:16:00)  It was not the reception that Kiekintveld was expecting but he kept his mouth shut and did as he was told (00:04:36:00) o The training company that Kiekintveld was with did a lot of physical training, going through a PT test almost every day before supper (00:04:59:00)  The physical training did not bother Kiekintveld too much because he was in pretty good physical shape, having played football in high school and having done construction work before being drafted (00:05:23:00) o There was a large amount of emphasis on discipline, with push-ups being the most common method of punishment for breaking the rules, such as back-talking the instructors or breaking formation (00:05:48:00)  During the first couple of days, the drill instructors made it clear that they were going to break the civilian habits of the new arrivals and were going to instill military minds into the new arrivals (00:06:14:00)  Because of his long last name and the fact that very few of the drill instructors could pronounce it, Kiekintveld was very seldom called for assignments such as KP (00:06:35:00) o Adjusting to life in the military was kind hard for Kiekintveld at first because he was not used to taking orders from others; however, he reasoned that if everyone else could, he could as well, so he put his mind to it (00:07:08:00) o On the whole, the drill instructors tended to pick on the trainees who were not as cooperative with the training (00:08:04:00)  On some occasions, Kiekintveld felt sorry for those trainees, but it was mostly for the soldiers who did not have the physical abilities to keep up with everyone else (00:08:15:00)  If a trainee really could not keep up with the rest of the group, he was often recycled to the next class, with the instructors trying to build the soldier up physically (00:08:43:00) o During his first basic training session, Kiekintveld ended up coming down with pneumonia and was in the hospital for two weeks (00:09:09:00) o Once he got out of the hospital, Kiekintveld had to start the basic training all over again; although he was somewhat bummed out by that, there was nothing he could do about it (00:09:18:00) o There was a mixture of people from different backgrounds in each training company; there was not a black company and white company (00:10:22:00) o Kiekintveld and the other trainees went through a series of aptitude tests and two of the questions were where they would like to be stationed and what they would like to do (00:10:58:00)  Kiekintveld does not remember where he put that he would like to go but he remembers putting that he would like to do construction (00:11:12:00) �   The basic training lasted for around six to eight weeks and towards the end of the training, Kiekintveld found out he would be going to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri for his AIT (Advanced Individual Training) to be a combat engineer (00:11:27:00) o While at Fort Leonard Wood, Kiekintveld trained to be a floating bridge builder, to erect massive floating bridges (00:12:01:00)  Originally, the soldiers in the program built their bridges during the day but towards the end of the training, they had to build a bridge a night using massive spotlights (00:12:18:00)  Apart from training to be a bridge builder, Kiekintveld also received some training in demolitions and using various weapons; however, most of the training still focused on the bridge building (00:12:34:00) o When compared to basic training, AIT was not nearly as physical and not as degrading to the trainees (00:12:58:00)  The instructors treated the trainees a little bit better but the instructors still gave orders (00:13:08:00)  For the most part, the trainees had a fairly regular daily schedule compared to basic training, when the trainees were sometimes woken up at three in the morning to make five mile marches (00:13:27:00)  While in AIT, the trainees were allowed to leave the base a couple of times on weekends; however, there was not a major city near the fort for the soldiers to visit (00:13:45:00) o The drill sergeants during basic training were almost all Vietnam veterans and they constantly re-enforced the idea that the trainees needed to kill their enemies, mostly by downgrading the enemy to something that was less than human (00:14:17:00)  The drill instructors left the task of explaining the conditions in Vietnam to someone else; they were focused on killing the enemy (00:14:57:00)  On the other hand, the instructors at AIT were a combination of professional engineers and soldiers who had served in Vietnam; a handful of the instructors had been to Vietnam but most were akin college engineering professors (00:15:36:00) o About a third of the instruction at AIT was in the classroom, with the remaining two thirds used for hands-on instruction (00:15:58:00) Prior to actually going to Vietnam, Kiekintveld did not know too much about what was happening in Vietnam; he did not pay too much attention to the news stories bout it when he was growing up (00:16:18:00) o Kiekintveld had a couple of friends in high school who wanted to join the Marine Corps together but Kiekintveld declined (00:16:59:00) Kiekintveld completed his AIT in about another six weeks, after which he returned to Holland for two weeks before leaving for his deployment to Vietnam (00:17:39:00) o When he initially started to deploy to Vietnam, Kiekintveld first flew to California, although he does not recall where exactly (presumably Oakland) (00:17:50:00)  While in California, Kiekintveld and the other soldiers stayed in a massive warehouse divided into large cubicles labeled “A”, “B”, “C”, etc.; every so often, a cubicle would be called out and all the soldiers in that cubicle �o would board buses to go to the airport for a flight to Vietnam (00:18:03:00)  At the time, the President said he was only sending fifty thousand new soldiers to but in reality was sending sixty thousand; Congress eventually found out about the extra ten thousand soldiers, so Kiekintveld stayed in California for an extra two weeks until Congress let up the pressure on investigating the situation (00:18:47:00)  Kiekintveld does not recall where exactly the warehouse was located because he and the other soldiers were confined to the building (00:19:15:00)  The only things the soldiers could do was lie around their cubicles reading magazines; they were not allowed to write letters to their families or even go outside (00:19:46:00)  Once Kiekintveld‟s cubicle finally received their call to board the buses, it was almost a relief (00:20:01:00) Once Kiekintveld and the other soldiers in his cubicle finally did leave for Vietnam, they flew aboard a chartered civilian aircraft (00:20:11:00)  The flight over to Vietnam stopped in Hawaii to refuel; when in Hawaii, the soldiers got off the aircraft and went into a warehouse while the ground crew refueled the plane (00:20:22:00) Vietnam (00:20:44:00)  Kiekintveld believes he arrived in Vietnam at Cam Ranh Bay but he is not exactly sure (00:20:44:00) o Kiekintveld remembers that when the aircraft arrived, the soldiers hurried off and boarded buses with steel meshing over the windows to stop grenades from coming into the bus (00:20:56:00) o Kiekintveld remembers that it was nighttime when the aircraft arrived in Vietnam and when they opened the doors, the heat and the smell just overwhelmed the soldiers (00:21:18:00) o Kiekintveld and the other soldiers spent the night on the base and the next morning gathered in formation and received assignments to their new units (00:21:41:00)  Kiekintveld was assigned to the 101st Airborne Division, so he and the other soldiers who were assigned to the division were taken to a division training area near Cam Ranh Bay (00:21:51:00)  Kiekintveld and the other soldiers spent two weeks at the training area where they received additional training as well as their jungle fatigues and their weapons (00:22:11:00)  Kiekintveld remembers that at one point during the training, he and some other soldiers were on a large bridge over what the soldiers noticed was a dry riverbed; it started raining soon after and when the soldiers later crossed over the bridge again, there was about three feet of water covering the bridge (00:22:24:00) �  The bridge had been built on a floodplain and as the soldiers crossed back over, Kiekintveld was carrying his wallet and camera in his pants pockets and they were both ruined (00:22:45:00)  At this time, Kiekintveld only knew that he was being assigned to the 101st Airborne (00:23:09:00) o After the two weeks of additional training, the Army assigned Kiekintveld to the 326th Engineer Battalion (00:23:14:00)  The additional training consisted of the soldiers learning about enemy tripwires and booby traps, training for when they encountered ambushes, and several other types of tactical training (00:23:36:00)  Kiekintveld had received some tactical training while at Fort Leonard Wood but because he had been an engineer, he did not have all the infantry training (00:23:53:00)  However, once in Vietnam, everyone received a refresher course in the infantry tactical training, regardless of whether the soldier was infantry or not (00:24:13:00)  Looking back, the course did quite a bit of good for Kiekintveld (00:24:30:00)  Kiekintveld remembers that when the soldiers were called to formation at the end of the training and he was assigned to the 326th Engineers, a couple of other soldiers who he had been with at Fort Leonard Wood were assigned to a mortar company and an infantry company (00:24:38:00)  When the soldiers complained that they had been trained as engineers, the instructors said that they needed mortarmen and infantrymen (00:24:57:00)  Once a soldier was in country, his AIT did not really mean anything because the Army placed soldiers where they needed soldiers (00:25:07:00) After receiving his assignment, Kiekintveld first reported to the battalion headquarters and as assigned to “B” Company, so he reported to the B Company headquarters at Camp Evans (00:25:21:00) o After spending a couple of days at Camp Evans, Kiekintveld went into the A Shau Valley to join his platoon, where his platoon leader assigned him to be a demolition man (00:25:31:00) o When Kiekintveld said he only had a couple of hours training as a demolition man, the platoon leader said Kiekintveld was going to learn (00:25:41:00) o Kiekintveld reached the battalion headquarters onboard a deuce-and-a-half truck that was part of a larger convoy traveling from Cam Ranh Bay to the camp; the distance between the two camps was so long that the convoy ended up having to stop overnight (00:26:09:00) o Kiekintveld did not actually receive his weapon until he joined up with B company in the field (00:27:10:00) o To actually join B company, Kiekintveld flew out aboard a resupply helicopter flying out to the company, which was stationed on Firebase Rendezvous, although when Kiekintveld arrived at Rendezvous, the firebase was being taken apart because monsoon season had been fast approaching (00:27:22:00) �  When he flew over the mountains and into the A Shau to reach Rendezvous, Kiekintveld thought it was a beautiful place, apart from the bomb craters caused by the B-52 strikes (00:28:17:00)  Rendezvous had been built on a flat area located between a couple of mountains that American forces also occupied (00:29:01:00)  Kiekintveld remembers that one of the tanks being pulled out of the A Shau ended up getting stuck in the mud up to its turret, so that was when Kiekintveld learned how to blow up a tank (00:29:41:00)  Other engineers had built a dam near Rendezvous and as the American forces pulled back, the commanders wanted the dam destroyed, so Kiekintveld received orders to blow the dam up (00:30:11:00) o Kiekintveld arrived in Vietnam towards the middle of August and joined his company around Sept. 1st (00:30:31:00) o For the most part, during the dismantling of Rendezvous, the enemy left Kiekintveld and the other engineers alone (00:30:55:00)  During the last couple of days, most of the other personnel were off the firebase, which meant Kiekintveld and the remaining forces had to work during the day then stay up at night to provide guard duty; during a fortyeight hour period, none of the soldiers on the firebase received any sleep (00:30:57:00)  The first day was not so bad but by the second day, the soldiers were wondering if they would be able to work, then pull a twohour guard duty that night (00:31:11:00)  Kiekintveld and another soldier ended up spending the entire night in a foxhole talking back and forth to keep each other awake (00:31:22:00)  Kiekintveld and the other engineers were the last ones to leave the firebase, along with the remaining contingent of infantry (00:31:53:00) After leaving Rendezvous, Kiekintveld and the other engineers returned to base camp for a brief period before deploying to other positions (00:32:04:00) o Kiekintveld was stationed on numerous firebases and helped build numerous other firebases (00:32:13:00) o During the monsoons, the engineers did “life-saving missions”, which involved going into an area and creating a two-helicopter sized LZ (landing zone) for damaged helicopters or troops needing to be picked up (00:32:20:00) o When creating an LZ, the engineers normally had aircraft bomb two or three different hilltops before actually going into the area (00:33:01:00)  Once the engineers finally did go into the area, they would make one or two false entrances in order to spook the enemy before making their real entrance (00:33:21:00)  With the bombings, the initial LZ was large enough to fit a single helicopter (00:33:29:00)  Once on the ground, the engineers would set demolition charges on the trees that the bombings had blown down and any others around the LZ to expand the entire LZ (00:33:35:00) �  Kiekintveld normally tried to create an LZ that could accommodate three or four helicopters because during a combat assault, the more helicopters that could land at an LZ meant more soldiers on the ground at one time (00:33:44:00)  Eventually, Kiekintveld commanded a three-man demolition team and they would often work independently of the other engineers in clearing an LZ (00:34:14:00)  Normally, the initial assault on a location for an LZ consisted of the engineers‟ helicopter plus an additional two helicopters of infantry to be used as support and security while the engineers finished setting up the charges around the LZ (00:34:35:00) o There were a couple incidents where the engineers came under fire while going into an LZ; however, it was often not critical that an LZ be made in a certain location, so the helicopters would simply pull out if they were under fire and go to another area that was prepped (00:34:55:00)  Sometimes, the enemy waited until the engineers were actually on the ground before attacking (00:35:18:00) o However, the engineers always had Cobra gunships circling overhead while they worked to provide support, as well as jet fighters on stand-by (00:35:23:00) For the most part, Kiekintveld and his demolition team operated out of Camp Evans and worked largely with the 1st Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment, which supplied the infantry forces to protect Kiekintveld and his team when they were building the firebases (00:36:03:00) o Camp Evans was a fairly good-sized base and Kiekintveld remembers that once inside the main gate, to the right was a heavy engineer unit and then Kiekintveld‟s unit, with the helicopter area behind them (00:36:30:00)  A civilian engineering company was located on the base and they worked to supply the power and water to the base (00:37:08:00)  While at the base, Kiekintveld and the other engineers slept in Army cots covered in mosquito netting inside a hooch; the walls of the hooch were partially plywood, with the remaining top being screen with black rubber on the inside that the engineers rolled down at night (00:37:43:00)  Outside the hooch were fifty-five gallon barrels filled with sand so that if a mortar round struck near the hooch, the barrels would catch any of the shrapnel (00:38:14:00)  Between each hooch was a bunker where the engineers could go in the event of an enemy mortar or artillery strike (00:38:32:00)  Kiekintveld‟s hooch was divided into two rooms; one room was reserved for the squad leader and the assistant squad leader (00:38:38:00)  During the monsoons, Kiekintveld and the other engineers did some work for the SeaBees, building a rappelling tower so the SeaBees could keep in shape (00:38:46:00)  Kiekintveld and the other engineers ate with the SeaBees when they worked with them and noticed that the Navy food was markedly better than the Army food (00:39:06:00) � o Towards the end of the construction of the rappelling tower, Kiekintveld and the others managed to get hold of a Navy uniform, so they took one of the SeaBees‟ deuce-and-a-halfs and loaded it with cot mattresses (00:39:20:00) o The engineers painted their company insignia and numbers out the truck, so the SeaBees never found out who had taken the truck or the cot mattresses (00:39:49:00) o Eventually, the company commander came in for an inspection, so the engineers had to drive the truck to another part of the base so they would not get into trouble for having an extra truck (00:40:02:00)  Kiekintveld‟s company had its own club where the engineers could drink beer and on the outside was a blank plywood wall where they were able to show movies (00:40:32:00)  Kiekintveld remembers that one of the movies they watched was John Wayne‟s Vietnam film “the Green Berets” and everyone laughed at it (00:40:45:00)  The seats for the movies were helicopter blades that had been too damaged to be re-used on a helicopter and were placed on cement blocks (00:40:54:00)  Enemy mortar and rocket attacks were a common occurrence while Kiekintveld was stationed on the base (00:41:15:00)  The base had a radar system intended to sound a warning before the mortar rounds hit but to Kiekintveld, it seemed like the mortar rounds usually hit before the sirens went of (00:41:20:00)  For the most part, the mortar and rocket strikes did not phase Kiekintveld too much; if the rounds started to get closer to where Kiekintveld was, then he became a little more nervous, but not too much (00:41:42:00)  From what Kiekintveld could tell, the attacks were targeting the flight line and the helicopters, which meant the helicopter unit stationed behind the engineers tended to get attacked more than the engineers did (00:41:57:00)  The mortar and rocket attacks often did not do too much damage, although one time, Camp Eagle was hit and the engineers had to go in and help re-organize and repair the base (00:42:21:00)  There were a handful of Vietnamese civilians working on Camp Evans, mostly in the PX and as barbers (00:42:52:00) Kiekintveld himself did not spend too much time in Camp Evans, preferring to spend time in the field (00:43:02:00) Firebase Ripcord / End of Tour (00:43:18:00) � The monsoons lasted for a couple of months and once they ended, Kiekintveld and the other engineers began taking part in numerous operations, including Republic Square and Texas Star, which Firebase Ripcord was a part of (00:43:18:00) o Once the monsoons ended, American forces tried to push back into the A Shau Valley but they never made it; instead, they had their butts kicked by the enemy forces in the valley (00:43:53:00)  American forces would make a combat assault into an area but would have to pull out after only a day because many times, they were overrun by the sheer numbers of enemy personnel (00:44:41:00) o The fighting around Firebase Ripcord represented the last major involvement that the 101st Airborne had in the area and that battle ended up dragging into an extremely long campaign (00:44:56:00)  Kiekintveld himself spent time on Ripcord itself and on several smaller firebases that surrounded the main firebase (00:45:28:00)  Here again, Kiekintveld and the other engineers spent much of their time building additional firebases using the previous method of having fighters bomb the intended area where they would then build the firebase (00:45:41:00)  The first thing the engineers would do once they were on an LZ would be blowing any remaining trees off the hilltop and hopefully, by the afternoon, they would be able to bring artillery onto the firebase (00:45:57:00) o As the artillery would be coming in, the engineers would still be placing charges on the trees surrounding the firebase to blow them out as well (00:46:12:00) o Sometimes, the engineers worked for several days blowing trees out of the different fields of fire for the firebase, eventually clearing a one- or two-hundred yard expanse around the firebase (00:46:25:00)  Once the trees were taken care of, the engineers would focus on helping set up the perimeter defenses for the firebase (00:46:40:00)  For the first couple of days, the only protection and shelter the engineers had were foxholes with a tarp occasionally stretched over the top (00:46:48:00)  Off and on, the engineers would come under enemy mortar attacks while they were working, so the engineers would try to make it to a foxhole for protection (00:47:06:00) o Some of the hills where the firebases were made were very rocky, making it difficult to dig a foxhole, so the engineers used shaped-charges and cratering rounds to create the foxholes (00:47:26:00) o The 101st did a combat assault against Ripcord in March but were thrown off and made another assault on April 1st, although it too was unsuccessful (00:48:53:00)  During the second assault, Kiekintveld‟s best friend ended up being killed (00:49:06:00) � o o o At the time of the second assault, Kiekintveld was working on a smaller firebase nearby, Firebase Gladiator, which had artillery positioned on it meant to support Ripcord (00:49:07:00)  Kiekintveld and the other soldiers in Gladiator could see the smoke from the enemy rounds on Ripcord during the second assault on April 1st (00:49:18:00)  Once they began hearing the sounds of the fighting at Ripcord, Kiekintveld and the others stopped to listen to the radio chatter and casualty reports from Ripcord (00:49:46:00) A third combat assault was made against Ripcord in May and Kiekintveld took part in that assault (00:49:57:00)  The third assault was fairly successful and was when the engineers actually began building Ripcord (00:50:04:00)  Kiekintveld helped make the foxholes before a bulldozer was brought in to build bunkers and gun pits for the artillery, which originally just sat on top of the mountain (00:50:13:00)  The bunkers normally consisted over several layers of sandbags as protection and often, three or four bunkers were interlocked and connected (00:51:17:00)  The bunkers were well put together and could protect the occupants from about anything the enemy fired at them (00:51:37:00) o It took a lot to actually destroy the bunkers whenever the Americans pulled off a firebase (00:52:17:00) While Kiekintveld was stationed on Gladiator, the enemy launched a ground assault and while Kiekintveld was stationed on another firebase, the Americans had to call in the “Puff the Magic Dragon” gunship (00:52:54:00)  Puff was a AC-130 aircraft that had two miniguns mounted onboard that fired several thousands rounds per minute as the aircraft circled the firebase, laying down a continuous stream of gunfire (00:53:10:00)  The aircraft also dropped flares that burned brighter than normal sunlight (00:53:43:00)  It was terrifying to watch the tracer rounds, which looked like a constant stream of light going from the aircraft to the ground (00:54:16:00) Another time, a B-52 strike was called on a nearby location and all the soldiers were told to hunker down in their foxholes, although many disregarded the order (00:54:54:00)  Kiekintveld and some other soldiers were sitting on the side of the hill when they began to feel the ground shake; also of the sudden, they heard a “thunk” sound and looking down, they saw a piece of shrapnel eight to nine inches long between them into the mountain (00:55:07:00)  Needless to say, all the soldiers got into their respective foxholes (00:55:33:00)  One of the soldiers had never drunk or smoked before then but after the shrapnel, the other soldiers could not get him to stop; Kiekintveld was � scared but he had never seen someone shake so bad in his life (00:55:37:00) o Kiekintveld himself only ever saw dead enemy soldiers; whenever the enemy attacked at night, the only thing Kiekintveld could see were the muzzle flashes from the enemy weapons (00:56:45:00)  Because of their location, Kiekintveld and the other engineers only dealt with NVA (North Vietnamese Army) forces, never with the VC (Viet Cong) (00:57:01:00)  Often, attacks at night involved enemy sappers, who sometimes were almost naked when they attacked the firebase (00:57:15:00)  To slow the enemy attacks, the engineers placed tanglefoot all along the side of the mountain; tanglefoot was twisted barbed wire placed several inches off the ground with trip flares mixed in (00:57:23:00)  However, at one point, an enemy sapper who had surrendered showed how he and the other sappers could crawl underneath the wire using bamboo sticks as props (00:57:49:00) As his tour continued, the only real change that Kiekintveld noticed about himself was that he started counting the days until he could go home (00:59:01:00) o Kiekintveld did not care about the people or why the Americans were in Vietnam; he just wanted to go home (00:59:10:00) o While he was in Vietnam, Kiekintveld honestly did not think that he was going to make it home for several reasons (00:59:20:00)  The largest reason was because of the work he had to do; he had several close encounters with explosives, including the single time he ever used a timed fuse (00:59:24:00)  At other times, Kiekintveld carried an M-60 machine gun and machine gunners were one of the first people that enemy soldiers liked to shoot at (00:59:36:00)  When he was using the timed fuse, Kiekintveld and his team were clearing an LZ and although they normally used detonation cord and an electric blasting cap to set off the explosives, at this LZ, all they had were timed fuses (01:00:27:00) o With the timed fuse, Kiekintveld first cut a chunk off and lit it with his lighter to gauge the burn time (01:00:45:00) o Once he had everything figured out, he readied explosives to detonate after three or four minutes; however, ten minutes went by and nothing happened (01:01:04:00) o Half an hour went by and Kiekintveld was just getting out from under his cover to check the fuse when the explosives finally went off (01:01:09:00) o Kiekintveld was injured once while working on building a firebase after someone accidentally fell while carrying a roll of concertina wire that rolled down to hill (01:01:56:00)  When the roll hit Kiekintveld, it broke his nose and cut him up to the point that he was in the medical center for several days (01:02:13:00) � o o o o o While on stationed on Ripcord, Kiekintveld was once blown into a foxhole and another time, he does not know how it happened but he was standing in a foxhole when a good-sized rock hit him in his right hip (01:02:41:00)  Being 21 years-old, Kiekintveld thought he could just walk the pain off and be black and blue for a couple of days; however, as he got older, Kiekintveld has had trouble with his right hip (01:02:57:00)  The blasting from the explosions ruined Kiekintveld‟s hearing to the point that he has needed to use hearing aids since 2005 (01:03:21:00) The process of rotating soldiers in an out of units did not work for Kiekintveld; he was in the field until one or two days before he returned home (01:04:12:00)  The company First Sergeant was an African-American and whenever another African-American soldier joined the company, the First Sergeant assigned the soldier jobs in the rear area (01:04:24:00)  When the Army offered Kiekintveld an early out if he would stay in the field for an additional two weeks to teach the replacement soldiers, Kiekintveld said “no” (01:04:36:00)  Instead, Kiekintveld did his six months of stateside duty, although it was extremely boring (01:04:54:00) When Kiekintveld first joined his unit, some of the older soldiers taught Kiekintveld what he needed to do (01:05:03:00)  For the most part, Kiekintveld usually worked with the same two soldiers as part of a three-man team clearing LZs (01:05:11:00)  When the engineers needed to clear firebases was when they joined together into larger squads and platoons (01:05:29:00)  However, even in the larger groups, Kiekintveld remained incharge of doing the demolition work (01:05:35:00) For the most part, Kiekintveld hung out with the other soldiers in his sections, although the section often hung with a group of infantry soldiers and a bond grew between the two smaller groups (01:06:03:00)  At one point, Kiekintveld volunteered to go on a night ambush with the group of infantry; Kiekintveld almost did go on the ambush but his platoon leader was on the firebase at the same time and he stopped Kiekintveld from going (01:06:26:00)  As one of Kiekintveld‟s friends became short-timed, the friend did not have any field experience, having served as a jeep driver, and although Kiekintveld tried to talk him out of it, the friend was part of the combat assault against Ripcord on April 1st; for years, Kiekintveld has had survivor‟s guilt but has slowly overcome it (01:06:54:00)  Kiekintveld and the other soldier were very good friends, with the other soldier having clean clothes and cold beer waiting for Kiekintveld whenever he came out of the field (01:08:01:00) Morale amongst the soldiers in Kiekintveld‟s unit was pretty good, with almost all of the soldiers getting along with one another (01:08:25:00) Doing the job and doing the job right were very important to Kiekintveld and he made sure that the others did the job right as well (01:08:40:00) �    Kiekintveld would tell the soldiers which trees needed to come down and if the tree did not come down after the explosion, then the soldier who set the charge was given an axe to finish the job (01:08:49:00)  There were soldiers who did not want to do the work but if they chose not to work, then there were consequences (01:09:30:00)  Most of the soldiers would adapt and Kiekintveld would not allow drugs or alcohol in the field (01:09:48:00)  As far as Kiekintveld knows, there were not any drugs harder than marijuana being used by soldiers on the base (01:10:49:00) o Towards the end of Kiekintveld‟s tour, he began to notice more racial tension amongst the soldiers (01:11:35:00)  Most of the tension resulted from the newly-arrived soldiers, who were carrying over the sentiments prevalent back in the United States at the time; Kiekintveld himself did not know too much about what was going on back home (01:11:45:00) o Where Kiekintveld and his men were stationed, they never received any news about what was happening in the United States (01:12:23:00)  Camp Evans sort of felt like a “no-man‟s-land”, with the camp receiving what seemed like everyone else‟s leftovers (01:12:54:00) When he was stationed in the rear area, Kiekintveld had the opportunity to go to a Bob Hope show (01:13:47:00) o One day, Kiekintveld was sitting around when someone told him to board a deuce-and-a-half to go to Camp Eagle but did not say why (01:13:56:00) o Once Kiekintveld was at Camp Eagle, he and the other soldiers sat in a specially built rotunda, where the was a sign that said “Bob Hope” (01:14:01:00) o Kiekintveld and the other men from his company ended up sitting quite far back but one of the men received permission to go up to the front rows in order to take pictures of Bob Hope (01:14:21:00) Twice, while his unit was on stand-down, Kiekintveld was able to watch Filipino rock bands that had been brought in as entertainment (01:14:50:00) o The first time, Kiekintveld‟s company had been in the field for sixty days, which was a long time, to the point that uniforms were rotting off soldiers‟ backs, and when they landed back in the company area, the company commander, having seen the condition they were in, sent them to the rest area at Eagle Beach (01:14:57:00)  By the time the soldiers arrived at Eagle Beach, someone had arranged for clean clothes and all the soldiers were allowed to take showers (01:15:28:00) o Later, Kiekintveld had another opportunity to go to Eagle Beach as part of another stand-down (01:15:34:00) o While at Eagle Beach, the soldiers could attend USO shows involving the Filipino bands, although they could not understand what the bands were singing; for the most part, the soldiers were drunk the entire time they were there (01:15:40:00) Towards the end of his tour, Kiekintveld went on an R&R (Rest and Recuperation) to Thailand (01:15:57:00) �o   Initially, Kiekintveld had an R&R scheduled to go to Hawaii to visit his parents and fiancée but that trip was canceled (01:16:05:00) o After the scrubbed R&R, Kiekintveld decided he was not going to take one; the fighting was so intense that if he could get out and go somewhere, if even for a week, Kiekintveld decided he would take the R&R (01:16:13:00) o Getting away for the week did not really help Kiekintveld because he still came back to the same stuff that was happening when he left (01:16:54:00) The fighting to retake the A Shau Valley was extremely intense during 1970; no matter where the soldiers turned, it always seemed like it was three or four companies on a firebase surrounded by around five enemy battalions (01:17:05:00) o Kiekintveld believes that the removal of the 1st Marine Division further exacerbated the problem because the division‟s withdrawal spread the remaining forces even thinner (01:17:49:00) o Most of the soldiers knew that the enemy vastly outnumbered them and for the most part, the odds were stacked in the enemy‟s favor (01:18:34:00)  Word would spread around a firebase that the enemy might outnumber the soldiers as much as fifty to one (01:18:37:00) o Building the firebases was almost more dangerous than actually serving on a finished firebase because while Kiekintveld and the other engineers were building a firebase, the only protection they had were fields of fire; there was not any barbed wire or perimeter defenses around the firebase (01:18:53:00) Kiekintveld‟s primary method of communication with people back home was in the form of letters, although he did do a cassette recording one time, after which he vowed never to do that again (01:19:24:00) o With a letter, Kiekintveld could read the letter, then burn it and be done with it; when he listened to the cassette tape, Kiekintveld heard the voices from back home, which made him homesick and it took him days to get over the feeling (01:19:44:00)  Kiekintveld does not understand how soldiers today are able to do it, being able to get on a computer and talk with their families or make a telephone call to their families (01:20:05:00) o Kiekintveld did receive some care packages from home, with his mother sending cookies and candy (01:20:44:00)  However, Kiekintveld did not eat a lot of candy, so when the packages did arrive, he often shared them with the rest of the soldiers (01:20:52:00)  Kiekintveld‟s mother also sent grape-flavored Kool-Aid for the water and WD-40 to help clean Kiekintveld‟s rifle (01:21:05:00) o In his letters home, Kiekintveld tended to generalize his experiences and did not say too much about what was actually going on; in their letters, Kiekintveld‟s family would talk about home and what was going on there (01:22:32:00) o At one point, Kiekintveld received a letter with a newspaper clipping saying that an old high school friend had been killed in the fighting (01:22:03:00)  Kiekintveld did not even know the friend was serving in the military and for several days after he received the letter with the newspaper clipping, Kiekintveld was in a very foul mood (01:22:11:00) �     Because he and the other soldiers did not receive a lot of news based on where they were stationed, Kiekintveld did not know there was a large anti-war movement going on in the United States (01:22:37:00) Periodically, Kiekintveld and the other engineers would be called in to recover downed helicopters (01:24:03:00) o Depending on the situation, during some of the recoveries, the engineers attached the remains of the downed helicopter to another helicopter to be pulled out; other times, the engineers had to destroy the remains of the helicopter (01:24:21:00) Kiekintveld‟s impression of the helicopter pilots and crews were that they were a crazy group of people; the crews did numerous pieces of remarkable flying, both in flying the soldiers in and out of areas using Hueys and Chinooks and in providing support to the soldiers using Cobras (01:24:38:00) o Without the helicopter pilots and crews, Kiekintveld and the other soldiers would not be around (01:25:26:00) Most of the officers in Kiekintveld‟s unit were decent; a couple of the officers were shake „n bake or ROTC and they tended to do most everything by the book, even if that method was not always the safest (01:26:52:00) o However, there was one officer about whom Kiekintveld himself sent in paperwork accusing the officer of desertion (01:27:19:00)  Kiekintveld‟s unit was going into a hot LZ and the officer refused to get off the helicopter (01:27:27:00)  Once the fighting ended, Kiekintveld got onto the radio and requested desertion paperwork for the officer (01:27:36:00)  When Kiekintveld got back to the company, the officer was not around, which Kiekintveld took as a sign, although he does not know exactly what happened (01:27:45:00) o During his tour, Kiekintveld had two company commanders and two platoon leaders (01:28:01:00) o If anything, Kiekintveld spent more time working with the officers commanding the various infantry units than with the officers from his own unit (01:28:54:00) Keeping a “short-timers” calendar was not allowed in Kiekintveld‟s unit, although Kiekintveld does not understand why (01:29:11:00) o However, because Kiekintveld had his own room, he was able to keep a secret calendar for himself (01:29:19:00) o As he became a short-timer, Kiekintveld continued doing the same things he had previously done; Kiekintveld knew he was getting close to the end of his tour but he did not actively count the days until the tour ended (01:29:44:00) Post-Vietnam Military Service / Post-Military Life (01:30:01:00)  Once the time actually came for Kiekintveld to leave, he was sent to the rear area, where he turned in all his equipment and weapon and picked up the necessary paperwork (01:30:01:00) o The initial route took Kiekintveld from Bein Ouit to another chartered civilian aircraft for the flight back to the United States (01:30:24:00) �o    During the flight, once the announcement was made that the aircraft was no longer in Vietnamese airspace, all the soldiers yelled and cheered (01:30:49:00) o Kiekintveld slept for most of the flight back to the United States (01:30:59:00) o While Kiekintveld and the other soldiers were loading onto the aircraft to go home, they saw another aircraft arrive carrying fresh soldiers (01:31:06:00) The flight back from Vietnam landed in Oakland, where Kiekintveld processed out and received a free meal, what ever he wanted to eat (01:31:31:00) o Kiekintveld ordered a steak dinner but it stayed in him for all of ten minutes; his body was not used to that rich of food (01:31:45:00) o When the flight landed, all the soldiers were allowed to take showers and were given clean clothes; while the soldiers ate their meals, their dress uniforms were tailored with their individual patches (01:32:05:00) o Kiekintveld remembers walking down a hallway at the airport and it was almost like he had the plague, because people would walk around him; Kiekintveld and the other soldiers did not receive any verbal taunts (01:32:39:00) o On the flight from California, Kiekintveld initially wanted to fly to Grand Rapids, Michigan but could not, so he ended up flying first to Wisconsin then on to Muskegon, Michigan (01:33:01:00)  During one of the flights, was a couple was sitting on one side of the aisle and their young son was next to Kiekintveld on the other (01:33:29:00)  The couple talked to the stewardess and Kiekintveld was escorted to a seat in the back of the plane because the couple did not want their son sitting next to him (01:33:37:00)  Kiekintveld sat in the back of the plane by himself but the stewardess had small bottles of whisky on the beverage cart and told Kiekintveld to help himself (01:33:47:00) Kiekintveld had a very short leave to be at home before having to finish out his enlistment and during the leave, he married his fiancée (01:34:12:00) When he reported back to the Army, Kiekintveld went to Fort Belvoir, Virginia, where his entire company consisted of Vietnam veterans and they all received training in riot control (01:34:44:00) o Apart from the riot control training, Kiekintveld was sent to work in a small carpenter shop on the base (01:35:01:00) o Kiekintveld lived off-base and one night, he and his company were called onto the base and told to get into formation, where the soldiers were assigned their weapons (01:35:23:00)  The soldiers were told that they were going to Washington D.C. because the Black Panthers were in the city and government officials were worried about the possibilities of riots (01:35:34:00)  The soldiers asked where the ammunition was for their weapons and were told that they did not get any (01:35:43:00)  The whole company dropped their rifles of the ground and said that they were not going and when the officers threatened to court martiial them, Kiekintveld pointed out how bad it would look if they court-martialed an entire company (01:35:50:00) �    All the soldiers were Vietnam veterans and they refused to die in the streets of Washington D.C. with an empty rifle (01:36:06:00)  Instead of issuing ammunition to the soldiers, the officers sent the entire company home (01:36:13:00) o Kiekintveld‟s wife was able to live with him and they rented a small mobile home that actually cost more than Kiekintveld made in an entire month; therefore, it was good that the couple had some money stored away (01:36:36:00) Kiekintveld finally left the military in Spring 1971 (01:37:33:00) o After he left the military, Kiekintveld was unemployed for a while before his father got him a part-time job working in the post office (01:37:35:00) o Eventually, Kiekintveld found a full-time job working in construction, building houses, where he stayed for twenty years (01:38:01:00) Around 2002/2003, doctors diagnosed Kiekintveld with having PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder) after Kiekintveld began having problems with nightmares and flashbacks to Vietnam (01:39:01:00) o Kiekintveld then began traveling to Grand Rapids to consult a psychiatrist and to attend PTSD groups (01:39:10:00) o In 2004, Kiekintveld went to the north side of Chicago to attend a six-week, inhouse PTSD seminar; by 2005, Kiekintveld received full disability due to the effects of PTSD (01:39:15:00) o While Kiekintveld had been stationed at Fort Belvoir, the Army had not made any effort to provide assistance to Kiekintveld and the other soldiers who had mental struggles with their experiences (01:40:02:00)  Prior to his discharge, a doctor asked Kiekintveld if there were any physical problems; however, if Kiekintveld said there were, it meant he would have to stay for another six weeks so even if there had been, Kiekintveld would have lied, just so he could go home (01:40:09:00) o Once he returned home from his service, Kiekintveld did not say too much about having been in the service and having been to Vietnam (01:40:43:00)  Kiekintveld knew in his heart that there was something wrong inside but he feared saying anything out of fear that he would be locked up in a mental institution (01:40:51:00)  As the years went on, the situation stayed the same until all of sudden, Kiekintveld could no longer control it, which was when he began having the nightmares and flashbacks (01:41:23:00) o For two years, one of Kiekintveld‟s friends kept saying that Kiekintveld needed help and needed to talk with someone (01:42:32:00) Kiekintveld notices that with the soldiers returning home today, not only are the soldiers being welcomed home, but there is so much more information about PTSD that it is only a matter of getting the soldiers to ask for help (01:43:02:00) o Kiekintveld makes it a point of shaking the soldiers hands and point out that the VA is there for them (01:43:35:00) o Kiekintveld‟s philosophy is that if he can help one veteran, then he is doing his job; he had one veteran help him and he is continuing the assistance (01:43:55:00) �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KiekintveldtG1349V Title A name given to the resource Kiekintveld, Gregory (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kiekintveld, Gregory Description An account of the resource Greg Kiekintveld was born in Holland, Michigan in May 1949. After graduating from high school in 1968, he worked in construction until he was drafted into the Army in March, 1969. Following basic training at Fort Knox, Kentucky, the Army sent Kiekintveld to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri for advanced training to be a combat engineer. Once Kiekintveld completed the training at Fort Leonard Wood, Kiekintveld deployed to Vietnam and joined B Company, 326th Engineer Battalion, 101st Airborne Division. While with the 326th Engineers, Kiekintveld had two primary assignments. First, he oversaw a small team tasked with creating landing zones in advance of an assault by infantry from other units in the 101st Airborne. Second, as part of a larger unit, either platoon- or company-sized he helped with construction and demolition of hilltop firebases for the division. His unit was based at Camp Evans, and operated in the hills and valleys of the northern part of South Vietnam. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-03-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f90c93193a0f6d13fd3227ceedad0ff1.pdf 3debf9bcd8edd91082086a7c4ef991bd PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran's History Project Vietnam War Paul Kieda Total Time (00:11:19) Introduction (00:00:17)  Paul Kieda was born February 8th, 1949 (00:00:30) ◦ He served for the United States Maine Corps during the Vietnam War; his highest rank achieved was E4 or Corporal (00:00:43) ◦ Right before the war, Paul was in high school working part time at a gas station (00:00:55) ▪ Paul thought it was his duty to join the war effort; his grandfather served in WWI, his dad was in the Navy in WWII, and his uncle served in the Army in WWII (00:01:23) ▪ His younger brother went into the Marine Corps after he did (00:01:37)  Although Paul joined the Marine Corps, he still received his draft notice from the Army (00:01:54) Training Camp & Beyond (00:02:00)  Paul notes that boot camp was hard; he arrived in San Diego, California- after they got off the plane and onto the bus, the training had started harshly (00:02:21) ◦ The physical training was tough: push-ups, sit-ups, running everywhere, and if recruits did anything wrong it resulted in push-ups (00:03:16) ◦ (From (00:04:03- 00:05:16) Paul shows how some punishment was dealt out to recruits & explains quonset huts)) ▪ After California, Paul went to Camp Pendleton in San Diego, California for advanced infantry training (00:05:28)  After being sent to Memphis, Tennessee, he was sent to Lakehurst, New Jersey where he went to school for launch and recovery (00:05:52)  After New Jersey, Paul went to Beaufort, South Carolina; following South Carolina, Paul volunteered for service in Vietnam (00:06:27)  After being sent to Okinawa, Paul mentions half the crew went to Japan and the other half went to Vietnam- unhappily, he was sent to Japan in 1968 (00:06:44) ◦ While in Japan pilots were trained, aircrafts were launched, additional training as well (00:07:39) ◦ Paul communicated with letters, commenting that they don't have like they do now as far as communication goes (00:07:53) ▪ He remembers the Red Cross calling when him and his wife had their first child; that was their only phone call in 15 months (00:08:11) Coming Home (00:08:15)  Paul notes that the veterans back then were not as popular as they were today; he saw a sign that said “dogs and servicemen keep off the grass” (00:08:38) ◦ He came back during the middle of the night so protestors couldn't see him (00:08:47) ▪ Paul received 30 days leave once he got home; his daughter was six months old when he first seen her (00:09:24) ▪ He was assigned to El Toro, California; he bought a car and drove out there and got �▪ himself an apartment (00:09:42) He doesn't regret enlisting and was glad he went (00:09:50)  He was in a project through Ford Motor Company which tried to rehabilitate servicemen to civilian life; he worked part-time everyday in a body shop (00:10:20)  Paul was back at home in Michigan when the war ended; he felt really sorry for the guys who were in the war then (00:11:05) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KiedaP1513V Title A name given to the resource Kieda, Paul (Interview outline), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kieda, Paul Description An account of the resource Paul Kieda was born in 1949 and enlisted in the Marine Corps after high school. He trained as an aircraft mechanic and volunteered for Vietnam, but was assigned to Okinawa instead. Here he serviced aircraft used for training as well as combat missions. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fennema, Lauren (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-05-26 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7bc92d384b2ae6f129e4889d2b61b059.mp4 4a13c7164c4374f08a50cf7f4e0e879e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d9c88bb92f0e9027f4e0dc6624229216.pdf ea32e3044767623375a3d1a6ec0eeb17 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Tim Kidd (00:28:16) (00:25) Background Information • • • • • Tim was born in Michigan on August 20, 1951 He grew up in a close knit family His parents were from Ohio and his father’s family have immigrated to the US from Ireland in 1746 Tim went to school at John Hill elementary and graduated from Hill high school in 1970 He was involved in the choir and played many instruments (5:40) Life After High School • • • Tim had attempted to join the Air Force, Marines, and the Army He was drafted into the Army and graduated from basic training at Fort Knox, Tennessee in July of 1971 He traveled to California for supply training (7:20) Vietnam • • • • • Tim was sent to Vietnam in a plane and arrived in an area that, to him, looked just like another American military base He began working in security on tankers and ships, doing some supply work He had to watch the civilian population to prevent them from stealing any of their supplies He also did security work checking Korean convoys and a bit of guard duty Tim enjoyed his work in Vietnam, but could not stand the heat (11:50) The “Bad Boy Platoon” • Most of the men in this platoon had messed up in the field or got caught doing something wrong • Many of them became alcoholics and began using drugs • Tim was in this platoon, and while he did not get addicted to drugs, he did drink a lot more during his time in the platoon (13:15) Back to the US • Tim traveled back the US in an airplane in 1972 • He was sent to a fort in Texas and worked on testing new equipment before it was shipped out • Tim was completely done with his service in 1973 (14:20) The Nave • Tim was bored with civilian life and joined the Navy, expecting to have a military career �• • • • • He had a choice to take classes or directly board ship; he chose the latter He found this was a bad choice because he was on a ship for two years straight and often sea sick He witnessed many large storms near Cuba with 20 foot waves Tim made many great friends in the Navy He traveled to Saint Charles, Jamaica, Naples, Spain, Rome, the Vatican, and Guantanamo Bay (18:50) Finished with the Navy • Tim was finished in 1975 and was on unemployment for a year • He joined the Reserves and was part of the 309 Civil Affairs Unit in Michigan • He was then decommissioned and joined the 176th Support Unit until 1984 • Tim continued supply training while in the Reserves (24:08) After the Reserves • Tim had diabetes, which kept him from working often and he retired in 1991 • He is now living in the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KiddT Title A name given to the resource Kidd, Timothy A. (Interview outline and video), 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kidd, Timothy A. Description An account of the resource Tim Kidd was born in Michigan on August 20, 1951 and graduated from high school in 1970. Shortly after graduating, Tim was drafted into the Army and went through basic training in Fort Knox, Tennessee. Tim then had supply training in California and was then shipped out to Vietnam. Tim did mostly security work in Vietnam, guarding ships and inspecting convoys. After Tim was discharged from the Army, he felt that he did not enjoy civilian life and joined the Navy. Tim spent time in the Reserves after the Navy, but had to retire in 1991 due to his class 1 diabetes. He now resides in the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army United States. Navy Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-12-12 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/90d854782d167eb850b3912bbb23fb85.mp4 6b6a5800a886690db4eaa956bf80b6b6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aabbea770882776be2a33a25d37b1271.pdf 3acd7a32ac0a627023cd27dd90661ea4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Fred Kerkstra (00:35:10) (00:10) Background Information • • • • Fred was born in Byron Center, Michigan in 1923 and grew up on a farm Fred did not go to high school and began helping his father with the farm after grade school He heard the news of Pearl Harbor on the radio, but had not worried about getting drafted Fred was drafted into the Army in February of 1943 (2:30) Training • • • • • He was sent to Fort Custer in Battle Creek, MI and then told that he was going to be sent into the Army Air Corps, rather than the infantry, because they were short on gunners Fred traveled to Miami, Florida for basic training for three months He then went to Colorado for gunnery and armory training and then back to Florida for advanced training They went through training in planes, shooting at targets in B-25s and A-20s Fred was a tale-gunner and trained all together for 13 months (8:00) Leaving the United States • Fred was assigned to a plane crew of five other men; a pilot, co-pilot, bombardier, radio operator, turret gunner, and a tail gunner • They went to Hawaii for a few months and were not doing much work • They then went to Australia and continued to not do much • Fred enjoyed being in Australia and felt that the people were very nice (12:45) New Guinea • Fred was staying in a base near an airfield for three months and there were thunderstorms every day • On their missions they were mostly attacking Japanese planes and areas where ammunition was stored • Fred was hit only once out of the 40 missions he went on • They all flew for four months before the first plane was even hit (19:30) Moreton Island • Fred flew another ten missions near Indonesia and then took leave in Australia �• • • • • They were staying in tents in Luzon and attacking Chinese islands They had a crash landing in China during their last mission They crashed near a river bank and everyone was ok, but they were three hours away from the nearest America base The men stayed in a Chinese hotel and everyone was very nice to them It took them two weeks to get back to the base, then they flew in a B-29 back to Guam (27:50) The End of the War • Fred had enough points to stop flying missions and was sent back to the United States • He took leave for a month and then was sent to Santa Anna, California to start teaching classes, but never ended up doing so because the war had ended by the time he reached California �~. ����) ~.;/.c C:C?-o. 0-ey:;t0- --zf:.e /I/{/& ~1t'- <V.~- '-4~"",-_~ ~_l( )~j'-04"A~)-<' rt~~~:C2, /JL<.'L'1- ~j:[-i~,~'f~ ~f!~_ tttu> ~,~' i(;7~ ~~'C/£:~d?" r--yv-'~l P/(~V~ 7J--~­ '-'J-v~,~/' ~x- ~~~~~ ~r-n-,~~r ~,1-eJ ~.~ ~~ Vi/~/L ~/~'~ 4-d-~R ~t-cV''L/f!a--, {Lf~ L~1- ~ -it t2~~v."(f U~~;~ )~wrk ~ aJ!~ T;~ ~~~~~~~ d/_~{ ~ /gIl::v~~~ _2/~,,~ ~:&? ~/ ~_7,YrL.--st:tct/ G(, V\,~,\ ~ 4--~'-1- GL--4--- v r'-d/tf to-~~ ~:::~~'- /'\2-~'Y-.~'~""'~<--C:'<­ {r",.(,-~ ~~~V~-'-~~ ~) -Q.g-c.~u~-~ '~-~ O!--' ~Vl-- '/J-.J--~~(/K l.-v-O/J /~vC'Z-.,k-cf! ~v;t~ Cv ~,~ ;?k- ~ ~ ~- -v,'V 27:' e-{i~T ~~-c r--£;/~-r, ~~ ~T ~. .-~ .......~ 2-v ,-0U Ch"- /!~. 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'J =,-...--ti~ /f'~/k:'t( {~~d- o-~e-/~-cf0;,'~~, L-J'v'J /C/Vy\.-Gu C'-...G) -)-V'-e.. .-do-rJ-/vhro(f 'd-.--L.J!?£· ?or~. )".A.e.~ ~ f ~ ItYt-- ~-~ -3 -::l~c f~ '~.f<-' ~~;c:~ -I-; --''''''''<.-£2e, ~). .ci<-j(' ~ (reZ ~Ct:-- ~~ '.k Cu2-~~ o--c.~-, I ,.1 �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KerkstraF Title A name given to the resource Kerkstra, Fredrick (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kerkstra, Fredrick Description An account of the resource Fred Kerkstra was born in Byron Center, Michigan in 1923 and grew up on a farm. He was drafted in February of 1943 and sent to Fort Custer in Battle Creek, Michigan. At the time, the Army Air Corps was short on gunners and Fred and had been lucky enough to be transferred into the Air Corps. He trained for 13 months in Florida and Colorado and became a tail gunner on a B-25. Fred traveled to Hawaii, Australia, China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Luzon, New Guinea, Guadalcanal, and Formosa. Fred went on 40 missions altogether while in the Pacific. Personal narrative of military service is appended interview outline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Air Force World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-05-20 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a0cc1e11ea2893222ea0d7b6ecb83d2c.m4v eec562dd252015b365457b410ca3e280 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b5af20fccbf361a64743b3cf340e636b.pdf 7b237f9f629e1c23b23f1a05dd1948ee PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Rodney Kenyon (46:25)  Background (00:10)  Born July 27 1933 (00:20)  Served during the Korean War and achieved the rank of Seaman (00:24)  Born in Middleville, Michigan (00:33)  Attended Thornapple-Kellogg High School  June 1952, he enlisted in the navy after receiving draft notice for the army, even though he had previously been in the naval reserve (00:50)  He went to naval reserve center after receiving the draft notice for the army, and was placed into the navy (02:00)  Went into the navy because of a great love for the navy (02:15)  He was homesick while serving in the army (02:50)  He was determined to do the best he could (03:40)  He was trained in fire drills and sea-faring (04:05)  After training he was assigned to a destroyer flotilla in Newport, Rhode Island (05:00)  He had typing experience in high school which qualified him to be a radioman (05:30)  He spent all of his time deployed on the east coast of the United states (06:10)  He was assigned to many ships because the Admiral would change his flagship often to any boat in port, 21 ships in sixteen months (06:40)  Sometime he was assigned multiple times to different ships without leaving port  Experience in England (08:25)  Went to London the week after the coronation of the queen 1953 (08:35) � They would practice maneuvers between the US Navy and US Air Force and the British Navy, which included air shows (08:50)  They would communicate by air mail to family back home (10:20)  The mail usually took no longer than five days (11:05)  The food was fine (11:25)  Grew up with two brothers and one sister (11:35)  They had about five cooks on board a destroyer to feed 350 crewmen (12:20)  He got along well with the officers, didn’t spend a lot of time with the enlisted crew because he was a radio man. He became good friends with one of the captains (13:50)  Entertainment (16:35)  Letters from home (16:40)  Married on boot leave (16:45)  His mother wrote him often (16:55)  Gambling on ships, but he never got involved (17:35)  He and his wife were saving money to buy a home (18:00)  While on leave the USO would give away tickets to sports and shows (18:40)  Service ended, he couldn’t wait to get out (19:30)  He was in the navy for 22 months ten days and eight hours (19:45)  The last six months he was assigned to the deck crew because of his record for changing ships (21 ships in sixteen months) (20:05)  He was assigned to a liberty boat (20:35)  The liberty boat is a craft that holds thirty-five to forty sailors and goes back and forth from ship to shore transporting (20:45)  It took about twenty minutes to go from ship to shore and another twenty to get back (21:15)  One of his experiences on a liberty boat took place during an extremely foggy night (21:55) � The officer on deck hadn’t received word that all the launches were canceled (22:00)  He wasn’t able to see the launch so he approached his officer and requested a compass in case the boat got lost on the way to shore (22:40)  The officer refused and accused him of insubordination (23:15)  So he was sent off on the boat without a compass, forty-five minutes after being in the liberty boat without seeing land, Rodney Kenyon assumed command to direct it to land (25:15)  He went to the bow of the ship and used a pole to feel in the water for rocks and land (25:40)  After being at the bow for a while he heard automobiles in the distance and directed the ship in that direction (26:10)  They found land (26:10)  He organized the crew, five all together, and pulled the boat on shore (26:30)  They were faced with a cliff and heard automobile traffic at the top so he led them in scaling the cliff (27:30)  He flagged down a marine patrol car (28:00)  The marine patrol accused them of deserting (28:40)  The Marines brought them to Newport because they were unable to contact the sailors command ship (29:10)  The marines handcuffed the group of five to benches (located at the boat landing) for the night (30:00)  They were picked up the next morning by the officer who had refused to give him a compass the night before (30:20)  Scariest moment of his naval career (31:00)  Korean experience (31:20)  His Admiral asked him to sign over for another three months of service in order to serve near Korea (32:00)  He refused the offer (34:00) � After his service ended he spent a couple days with his wife and then went back to work at his family’s dealership (35:30)  He joined the American Legion (36:00)  He was denied from joining the VFW because he hadn’t fought over in Korea (36:20)  He joined up with the Caledonia American Legion, Middleville did not have a post at the time, and has been with them since (37:40)  Service and experience changed his life around (38:40)  After his service he appreciated his town of Middleville (40:00)  (40:10) end � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KenyonR Title A name given to the resource Kenyon, Rodney (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kenyon, Rodney Description An account of the resource Rodney Kenyon enlisted in the US Navy in 1952 to avoid being drafted into the army and sent to Korea. He was assigned to the commodore's staff in a destroyer flotilla based in Newport, Rhode Island. He followed his commander from ship to ship, and eventually served on 21 different vessels before being assigned to duty on the base at Newport. He made regular trips across the Atlantic, but never served in a combat zone. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kenyon, Shelby (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-05-25 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1616617b89c9a13ce391dd3222510876.mp4 be2e6d592399ac8445a2d1a4f5ba2e0b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4cc5a163c078eaf7627901f2ac03ef9e.pdf e5caaae6e6824bf131567d9a08fb347e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam War Dave Kenyon 45:39 Introduction (00:15)         Dave was born in Binghamton, New York on February 20, 1949. His father worked at a furniture manufacturing company and his mother worked for General Electric. They had four kids in the family, two brothers and one sister, and he was the second child. Dave graduated from high school in January 1967. After he graduated, he got a job at a flooring store working with carpet and ceramic. He was aware of Vietnam at the time, and he heard of people going there and being killed. His cousins were getting draft notices, but he did not watch much on the television. Dave received his own draft notice in 1968. He was given his physical and other testing there in Binghamton. (02:15) He doesn’t remember anyone trying hard to get out of military service while getting his physical. The physical was basic, mostly vitals. Dave was sent to Syracuse and flown to Fort Dix in March 1969. Training (03:09)           Basic training was conducted at Fort Dix. When he got there, they spent a couple of days for orientation which was when they were issued their uniforms and were checked into training. The first time they met their drill sergeant, he scared them all. Adjusting to military life was a little tough, especially waking up early and learning all the military discipline. Physical training, marching and weapons training were the main focuses of basic training. (04:30) Dave was in pretty good shape going in, so it did not bother him much. Most of the people in basic training with Dave were all from the east coast area. He also went in with his cousin. Most of the men were draftees. One red-headed sergeant that Dave remembers was a Vietnam veteran. Basic training lasted for 8 weeks, and then he was sent to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri for AIT (Advanced Infantry Training). Dave was training to be a combat engineer. (06:47) AIT was much tougher physically than basic training. It was also more challenging mentally because of the classes and new things he had to learn about being an engineer but also the infantry aspect of shooting rifles and throwing hand grenades. �       They trained on an M-14 but once they got to Vietnam they were all issued M-16s. Dave was one of three men to max the PT (Physical Training) test. The instructors were also good, with some of them being Vietnam vets themselves, especially the demolition instructors. They did not get much training on being in Vietnam, just specialty training on being an engineer. AIT was another 8 weeks followed by 10 days leave back home. (08:42) While home on leave, he was stopped by a police officer for speeding but when Dave told him he was going to Vietnam he was let go without a ticket. When he came back from leave they were sent to Oakland, California. They flew commercially to Hawaii for refueling then on to Okinawa. From there, they went directly to Vietnam and flew into Cam Ranh Bay. Vietnam (10:11)                Dave’s first impression of Vietnam was that it was hot and sticky. The men he saw that were going home were all smiling, and it made him wonder what he was getting into. Once they got in country, they had a few days of indoctrination before he was assigned to the 101st Airborne Division. He was attached to the 326th Engineer Battalion. They were flown on a C-130 to Camp Eagle. At Camp Eagle, they were issued more gear and then trucked up to Camp Evans. Dave was in B Company. And when he first got there, he was called a ‘cherry’ and a ‘rookie’ by the men who were already there. (12:46) They were in camp for a couple weeks before he was sent into the field. That time on base was spent conducting special training like rappelling and walking out of a Chinook Helicopter and other things that the 101st made all new members go through. Dave arrived in Vietnam in August 1969. To clear an LZ (Landing Zone), they were given chainsaws and they cut down all the trees, they then used explosives for other things. One time he remembers having to rappel out of a helicopter. (14:50) One mission that he went on they had to clear booby traps in some buildings. He caught some shrapnel in his arm on that mission. They also went mine sweeping on the roads and found a large amount of TNT and blew it in place. After it was blown, another unit would come in and fix the road. Dave’s unit was designated for demolition, clearing and building firebases. They ran concertina wire, set trip wires and claymores. At night they had to pull guard duty, but they were usually brought back to the rear as soon as they were done. (16:30) When Dave arrived at Camp Evans, he met one of his best friends from school, John Hulver, who fought at Hamburger Hill. When the monsoons were coming, they blew up a dam and Dave never saw so much mud in his life. This was done in the A Shau Valley, and nothing could be done during the monsoon season because of the poor weather. Dave never saw the enemy the whole time he was there. Camp Evans was his home base for the duration of his tour in Vietnam. (18:35) In December, they went on a mission up to the DMZ, but he was back for Christmas. �          While in the rear, he re-built the mess hall and built an NCO club. Dave was always busy and normally worked by himself. The mess hall put out some good meals while in the rear, and the only time he had to eat c-rations was when they were out in the field. Dave had seven men in his squad. They were often sent out on missions by squad and they worked for a variety of different battalions. (20:24) In the rear, whites hung out with whites and blacks hung out with blacks. Men were usually either a pothead or a boozer, but he did not see much racial tension or fights. Other than marijuana, Dave did not see any other drugs, nor did he partake of them. He did drink beer that could be bought at the PX or the NCO club. In the field, most men did not smoke pot or drink beer. (22:44) Dave went to Hue and the Perfume River, and while there he noticed that everything was Americanized. Everything the Vietnamese people had was from the United States. The impression that Dave had with the locals was that they didn’t want them there. At the time, he felt that he was in Vietnam because he was called by his country to serve; now he feels that it was all politics and big business. (24:22) In March, the monsoon season was over and they went out and started building firebases. Ripcord (24:45)          The next big event that happened was in April when Dave went up to Ripcord, they arrived on the 1st of April and they were hit that day. They landed at a hot LZ. When they landed, he noticed there was no foliage due to bombings and Agent Orange. They planned on placing artillery on the hill that was Firebase Ripcord. Dave spent all day there and was mortared continuously and when night fell they were forced off Ripcord and hiked through the jungle in the dark a mile or two away. (27:03) He was dropped off with Bravo Company 2/506th. Dave spent the night there and a lieutenant came around and asked for volunteers to go back up the hill and bring back some bodies of three men that had been killed the previous day. They were not shot at when they were extracting the bodies. (28:30) After a while, they were brought back to Camp Evans and the grunts they were with stayed out in the field. Ten days later, they went back up to Ripcord with Charlie Company. They used bulldozers to build bunkers and he worked there for 2-3 weeks. Dave used Bangalore torpedoes from World War II to build some of these bunkers. Lieutenant Smith was in charge of the engineers and he served as platoon leader. (30:21) They blew up lots of tree stumps and cleared fields of fire. For the artillery positions, they were leveled off by the bulldozers. Dave also filled sand bags for several days. When they were staying at Ripcord, they slept in foxholes and they had to pull guard duty at night too. They did not receive any additional attacks or incomings after the April 1st attack. After the base was completed, Dave was sent back to the rear and was later sent to another artillery unit and performed some tile work. (32:52) At that point, Dave did not have a sense of what was going on in the war around him and he did not read Stars and Stripes or listen to the radio. �           During the summer when Ripcord was getting hit, Dave was not aware of it because his squad had been pulled out. At Camp Evans, they would sometimes get a rocket or mortar attack, but nothing serious and always sporadic. (34:57) They did not have much fun, but he did go to Eagle Beach once. Dave did not go on R&R because he did not know if he would be able to go back to Vietnam. One man he knew extended for two months to get an early out and was later killed, so Dave said he would never do that. Contact with the states was limited to letters from his parents and his family. He asked his family to send him magazines and jiffy-pop. Other things could be purchased on base at Camp Evans. (36:38) The new officers did a lot of stupid things and didn’t have much common sense. Civilians did the men’s laundry and they had to keep up on military uniform regulations while in the rear. Dave mostly did what he was told to do so that he didn’t rock the boat, but some men refused to do things like rappelling from the tower or practice. (38:50) The unit kept getting replacements and the new guys were taught by the older guys that had been there for a while. Dave left Vietnam in August. He turned in his gear at Camp Evans, and when they arrived at [Camron Bay] he noticed a huge difference in the lights. When he got on the plane, they were happy to be going home but he didn’t notice any new guys coming in as he was leaving. (40:52) Back in the States (41:09)        Their plane landed at Fort Lewis, Washington and they stayed there for a day or two before going back to New York. Dave flew home in uniform but did not have any problems with protestors. He was just happy to be back in the world. When he arrived back home, he still had six months left in service. He was stationed at Fort Belvoir and worked as a training NCO. The only duty he had was to come up with a training schedule for the guys. He did not have to pull any guard duty and he was able to go home every weekend. They mentioned re-enlisting, but he never thought about it because he knew he would be back in Vietnam in a year or two. Dave was discharged in March 1971. He took a couple of weeks off and then got a job working for as a carpenter. (43:22) After his friend was killed, he never complained about anything. He did learn discipline while in the army and it made him a better person. He also gained more appreciation for the things he had back in the states. He never spoke to anyone about Vietnam, and he finally began to when others like him started coming out and speaking about their experiences. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KenyonD1543V Title A name given to the resource Kenyon, Dave (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kenyon, Dave Description An account of the resource Dave was born on February 20, 1949 in Binghamton, New York. He graduated from high school in 1967 and he received his draft notice in 1968. He was sent to Fort Dix for basic training and Fort Leonard Wood for AIT. Dave served as a combat engineer and was sent to Vietnam in August 1969. He was assigned to the 326th Engineer Battalion, 101st Division. As an engineer, Dave helped build firebases, including Ripcord. He made it back to the United States in August 1970 and was discharged from the army in March 1971. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-10-12 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/81c82b89621306f0c568f51d24ce9eeb.mp4 45c3555154446af7e9007dfbe6d4c18f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a3da94f295aaaad9793da700d5955682.pdf 06c6831ac15cf5c0f6614766f31f3236 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II John Kennaugh Total Time – (01:02:17) Background        He was born in Rockford, Illinois on March 4, 1923 (00:16) After three years, his family moved to Belvedere, Illinois o He lived there until 1935 (00:32) From Belvedere, his family then moved to Dixon, Illinois (00:42) o He grew up in Dixon, Illinois His family moved to Dixon because his father got a job at the Freeman Shoe Company (00:54) o His dad ended up deciding to go on his own and become an electrician There were two children in his family o He had a younger brother (01:14) He finished his schooling at Dixon High School in 1941 (01:23) After high school, he went to work with an engineering company doing land surveying Enlistment/Basic Training – (01:50)   While in Dixon, he was a part of the Illinois Reserve Militia – They took the place of the National Guard during the war (01:53) o He had access to the armory  He was playing basketball in the armory when he heard about Pearl Harbor (02:07) With the Illinois Reserve Militia he became a Drill Instructor o There were two different occasions where they were sent out on duty (02:24)  One was a train wreck outside of Dixon – He was posted in the mail car  The second was when he went to Savanna, Illinois where they guarded the Illinois side of the bridge going over the Mississippi River o They drilled and trained once a week (03:13) o The Militia was a volunteer position �               After Pearl Harbor he considered enlisting into the military – he was going to wait to get drafted (03:40) He received his draft notice in early 1943 He reported for duty in February of 1943 (04:01) Because of his background with the militia, he was responsible of getting men from Dixon to Chicago, Illinois When they got to Chicago, they received their physical inspection (04:40) He was sent to Camp Grant in Rockford, Illinois for basic training (05:05) When he got to basic training, he had some advantages because of his previous experience o One of the Drill Instructors asked if anyone had any drill experience – his friends shouted his name out o He was asked to stay on as a Drill Instructor but he declined (06:24) Aside from drilling, the soldiers were involved in building tents that were built up (07:10) o They also dug trenches, helped move supplies at a hospital, and other odd jobs (07:39) o He took some written exams at Camp Grant as well – he scored 136/150 (08:34) From Camp Grant he went to St. Petersburg, Florida where the soldiers were put up in a hotel for a short time (08:52) o They drilled out on the streets (08:57) o They were then moved out to “Tent City” located on a golf course o The sun did not shine until 10 A.M. (09:23) o His basic training actually occurred in St. Petersburg, Florida Most of the men there were meant to go into the Army Air Forces o He was trained to be part of the ground crew (10:12)  They were meant to maintain planes that could maintain a newly acquired base  When a squadron of planes would come out, they could maintain the planes until their ground crews could go forward (10:27)  At the time, the Japanese were almost at the point of getting into India After St. Petersburg, he had courses in handling bombs, handling fuses, training as an ordinance individual, etc. He trained in Utah, Iowa, and Texas (12:20) o He learned to drive trucks in Texas o In the same training period, he was on a couple of convoys being sent up to new trucks – they would then drive them back to the base He received training in Utah on how to handle bombs, fuses, etc. (13:14) Iowa was the last base before departing for active duty (13:34) o He was responsible for drilling his own people, training his people on fuses and bombs – he was an instructor at the time (13:48) He had been in training for nearly one and a half years before receiving his orders to go overseas (14:08) o At this point it was the middle of 1944 (14:19) �    He had received some leave time There were no other men that went through all of the same training that he did (15:12) Iowa is where his group came together His group departed from California – they had to do some drilling there to keep them busy (15:50) Active Duty – India – (16:12)           They were deployed on a transport ship (16:20) o They were on the sea for thirty-three days o They stopped in Australia for one day but were not allowed to get off (16:34) o They were taken to Bombay (Mumbai), India (16:42) The ship sailed by itself o They sailed in a zigzag pattern (17:13) His time on the ship was spent playing cards and doing other activities While on the ship they went through one storm where the ship would hit the waves and then drop (18:02) o He does not recall any of the men getting seasick o He did not spend much time on deck (18:27)  There were too many men for everyone to be on deck at the same time Once he gets to Bombay, they were dropped off at the docks where he got all of his mail o He received nearly three dozen letters (18:57) o Many of the men had tears in their eyes when they received their letters The men were then sent on train from Bombay to an airbase in northeastern India (19:20) o The train was interesting in that the restroom on board was a cubicle area with a hole in the ground (19:45) o At the different stops, the number of people looking for help was incredible o They played a lot of cards on the train o The train was covered but not enclosed (20:36) The men were surprised at what the Indians looked like, seeing the beggars, the housing was something they had never seen before, etc. At the airbase, he would go see a movie every night (21:52) o Two nights in a row, with a clear sky, the moon was blue At the Airbase, he was waiting to go on duty (22:34) o His particular services were not needed o Some of the soldiers would play baseball during the day (22:43) After having gone to Calcutta to buy some things to send home, he found out that he could not send home a bundle heavier than 10 lbs. (23:08) �  There were many American units on the base as well – there were different squadrons present They had to take a malaria killing medicine every day until they left the country (24:23) Active Duty – India/Burma/China – (24:40)      After staying at the base for some time, his next assignment was to go to Cox’s Bazaar in what is now Bangladesh (24:53) o Ten men were sent there to move munitions from a ship to a new munitions dump (25:02) o They stayed in housing that were pole structures with straw roofs (25:41) o While in Cox’s Bazaar, he and another soldier were responsible for getting two trucks “in shape” (26:13)  They were part of the motor pool o He was able to eat British food while he was there (26:31)  On Christmas Eve, some of the soldiers were invited to celebrate with some British soldiers – It was the one time in his life where he got drunk (27:26)  He was not a big drinker and the others knew that During his time in India, he found out that there was a need to work with pilots that were removing wounded from the front lines in Burma (29:10) o He volunteered to work with the pilots (29:28)  He would set up the camp, get the food, prepare the water for washing, got supplies for the chef, etc.  He worked with the pilots three or four different times (29:51)  The last time he worked with them a pilot took him to his next air base at “Rangoon” (Yangon), Burma (29:59)  When they arrived, the pilot made a sharp turn and the engine stopped – they ended up landing on a black top road (30:28)  One of the struts his the edge of the road and they ran into a cemetery wall  When the plane crash landed, he just “hung on” (31:07)  The pilot did a good job of keeping it under control His cargo squadron then needed someone to go into China so he volunteered to go (31:53) They stopped in Kunming, China (32:06) o It was a woody area – he went and walked around in the woods  While he was in the woods, he was shot at by a Chinese soldier (32:34)  He eventually made it back to camp without any harm (33:03) They then went to an airbase near Xi’an, China (33:15) o When he arrived and settled in, he learned that a Transport Squadron planes had crashed (33:34) �           o He went to HQ to volunteer for recovery  He was elected to go with a two others and an interpreter (33:58) The trip was seven days o They were driven to the first mountain range – they were kept overnight in a house – their beds were overtop a fireplace (34:30) When they climbed the mountain ranges to where the plane crashed, they had decided that they better have a good meal before they get to the last village (35:06) o When they arrived in the village, there was a committee there to welcome them in (35:57) o They found out that there was a 12 course meal waiting for them (36:33) o They stayed in the village for two nights After staying in the village, they went to where the plane was (37:40) o When they arrived, they found that the plane had belly-flopped on the peak of the mountain (37:47)  The cabin broke loose and the seven G.I.’s flew out through the opening (38:04)  They were responsible for recovering the bodies  There were mule skinners that were going to haul the bodies back to the base (39:07)  Before the bodies were taken to the base, they were taken to the village where a worship service took place – the Chinese offered their forms of prayer When they went to the crash site they climbed the entire way (41:54) o At one point they were walking on a very narrow ridge o The hike was not short o The plane was very flattened (42:37) At one point on the hike, the sole of his shoe began to fall off When he returned to the base, he was surprised that one of the doctors gave him half a bottle of liquor (44:55) o He did not drink, but his fellow comrades enjoyed it o He was surprised to learn that he had become a Sergeant (45:16) From that point, everything was “slow-going” for him They were all buying their time before they were shipped home After leaving China, he set sail for America on a ship (46:27) o When they arrived at the base in California, there was a large buffet waiting for the soldiers (46:37) o When he was in India and China he missed fresh eggs, ice cream, and some other foods (47:39) When he remembers back to India and China, he remembers playing baseball (48:50) o One time he flipped over the catcher at home plate and he bruised his shoulder When he was in the training stage, he helped prepare 100 lb. bombs that were dummy bombs used for practice (49:55) o They were filled with sand (50:03) �  o All he did was haul the bombs to the plane and another group would handle the actual loading of the bombs When he was in India and China, he was always at a distance from the actual war (51:11) o However, when he was in Burma he was actually in the Combat Zone but was not where the fighting was going on o At one point, some of the pilots were worried about flying their planes without protection  He was able to get boxes of hand grenades to give to the pilots after having tea with a British supply man (53:02) o When he was in Cox’s Bazaar, all of the soldiers were British  At Cox’s Bazaar he was driving along the pavement when he found out that he was in the wrong place (54:21) The soldiers would sometimes have houseboys that would take care of their things (55:16) After the Service – (56:31)          After he landed in the United States, the military tried to convince him to re-enlist (56:45) o He did not re-enlist because he wanted to go to college When he got home on February 8, 1946 he was surprised to see a Christmas tree on a small table (57:19) o His parents had kept it up for him until he returned home Before he had left for overseas he had developed a code system with his parents so that they could know where he was (57:40) He started going to school in the Fall of 1946 (58:46) He worked with an engineering firm between the service and school He went to North Central College in Naperville, Illinois (59:05) o It was a church related college o It is much different now than what it was when he went there o He was one of the first G.I.’s to go to the college (59:39) o He studied Engineering Science and he worked in land surveying After he worked with the surveying company, he began working in public administration (01:00:55) He worked in Western Springs, Illinois as a City manager He eventually became a City manager of Wyoming, Michigan (01:02:14) o He was the first city manager for the city � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KennaughJ1460V Title A name given to the resource Kennaugh, John (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kennaugh, John Description An account of the resource John Kennaugh was born in Rockford, Illinois in 1923. He became part of the Illinois Reserve Militia, which took the place of the National Guard. John was drafted in February of 1943 and was sent to Camp Grant, Illinois for basic training. He also trained in St. Petersburg, Florida, Utah, Iowa, and Texas. John was then deployed on a transport ship for thirty-three days before landing in Bombay, India. After being stationed at [Ninga] airbase for some time, he was sent to Cox's Bazar in Bangladesh. In India, John worked with pilots that were recovering body's form the front lines of Burma. He then volunteered himself for similar work in China where he passed through Xi'an and Kunming, China. Upon hearing of a Transport Squadron plane that had crashed, John was sent alongside two others and an interpreter to recover the soldiers. After finishing his work in China, John was sent to California, went to school, and eventually became a City manager. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Air Forces World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-10-16 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3b51f3be9f6ce3853a04b209beed06a1.mp4 83cbd477b4031690526fed639a15d001 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8f32b153ad6ac8fb72da1fe71772d3f2.pdf bf41190c311eba5b393e9cb035db908d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee: Lewis Kelsey Length of Interview: 01:22:25 Background                 He was born in Reed City, Michigan on March 24, 1923. He lost the farm when he was 10, during the depression. He would move to a small town in Eaton County. His father would rent a farm. He would go to a small country school. If you heard an airplane, the teacher would take them all outside to see an airplane. He would make it through 12th grade in high school. He graduated in 1942. He was in school when Pearl Harbor happened. He remembers hearing about it the next day when he went to school. When he found out about the war, he still wanted to finish school. There was only one man who enlisted immediately out of high school. After high school, he was enrolled at a National Youth Administration to learn about airplane mechanics. While he was in that school, his instructor was a retired Marine airplane mechanic and he got Kelsey to join the Marines. He had heard somewhere that there was going to be a new type of plane coming out and he really wanted to fly one of them. Unfortunately, he got the draft notice before he could sign up. He would report to his physical January 2, 1943. He was sworn in at the Armory in Kalamazoo. He was given a choice: go now to Fort Custer or wait a week and go to Camp Grant. He would take the week to see his sister in Big Rapids and go to Camp Grant on the 9th. He was there for two day and left in full uniform and dress coat. From there he was sent to Keesler Field, Mississippi. It was in the 90’s. Training (5:25)      It took them 2 days and 2 nights by train. The only thing that sticks out in his mind about the trip is that one guy had to be taken off the train and into an ambulance. He never did find out what happened. He had to walk out to the base. He thought it was a pretty nice base. There were a lot of B-36 planes there. He got basic training there. He was doing exercises, marching, and discipline. He applied for aviation school while he was there. �     When he went through the physical for aviation school, he was disqualified because his left eye was deemed not good enough. Even though when he had his first physical, he had almost perfect eyesight. The man telling him this showed him that because of his left eye, he was left with a blind spot. He understood, then, but he was still upset that he would be unable to go. Learning Army discipline wasn’t too hard for him. One time he missed a command and he had to run three laps around the Army field. Basic training lasted about 3 months. He would learn more about Air school when he transferred to Las Vegas, Nevada. Las Vegas (10:00)         It was very intensive training there. He had to learn how to take a machine gun apart and put it back together, blindfolded. He did an awful lot of shooting. He would first learn how to shoot a 50 caliber gun on the ground. They would have to shoot it at posts. The last 4 weeks they went up in airplanes and practices there. At the end of his training, he was flabbergasted to learn that he was one of the top 10 gunners and was invited to stay at a hotel in Vegas to celebrate. Las Vegas was not a big town then, but still good size. That night at the hotel he would meet a couple of actors and a singer. She would not sing for them that night, but she did sit at the table and eat supper with them. He was not getting any other training other than gunnery training. When he was done with gunnery training, he was shipped to Amarillo, Texas, for flight mechanic school. Amarillo (13:05)            He was learning all about the B-17. He was there almost 6 months. That was a very little amount of time to have to figure out everything that had to be done to learn about that plane, but he made do. His main responsibility was to transfer fuel. He would always have to make sure that no one was smoking. He would also take care of any problems while in flight. The fuel was stored in the wings. He had a lot of weekends off or got an evening pass to go see the city. There were no overnight passes. He remembers, they were done with their training, and he had hemorrhaged in the bowels. He spent 3 days in the hospital. He liked being there. It was a good town. His favorite town was Longview, Texas. He forgot to tell about his story from Keesler to Las Vegas: they went all the way around the mountain and into Utah. He does not know why they went so much out of the way, but they did. After his training and hospital time are done in Texas, he is transferred to Salt Lake City. �       When he was at Salt Lake City, he was assigned to an air crew. He was only there for a few days. From there they went to Peyote, Texas. That was another horrible place. He would take his combat training there. He would be transferred to a few more places and finally over the Atlantic. There were engine troubles along way and a guy in Iceland fixed it for them. When they went across the Atlantic, it was the entire crew. Europe (19:30)                 From Iceland he went to Belfast, Northern Ireland for a couple of days. From there he would get on a boat to go to Scotland and from there, he would take a train to Snetterton Heath. He would join the 338th Squadron 96th Bomb Group. The group would spend 2 years overseas and 200 missions. While at Snetterton Heath, they would live in Quonset huts, 12 men to a hut. There was a little coal stove in the thing, though there was not much coal to burn it. He does not recall even using it. He remembers his first mission, he went to Mulhouse], France. He remembers seeing the Swiss Alps. The plane that he would use for his first mission would get stuck in the mud before he ever had the chance to actually use it. It would only last 3 or 4 mission, as it would go down shortly after. He was with the same crew that he came over with throughout his time in Europe. He would lose 3 men. One of those men was born in Mexico City and did not have citizenship. An officer of the crew would find this out and the guy was pulled from any missions until his paperwork was completed. The officer was nice about it and explained what was going on to both the man and the rest of the crew, as the man was very well liked by all of them there. Because he was a citizen of Mexico wearing a US Army suit, he could have been executed for being a spy, legally. It turns out that the man was killed later on in a firefight, before they completed their mission. His pilot was from New Orleans. Copilot was a banker in NY. His navigator was a big honking kid from Memphis, TN. The bombardier was a Jewish boy from Philadelphia. The top gunner was the oldest and he was from Nashville, TN. The tail gunner was from Pittsburgh. There were others as well. Just before he left Texas, he turned 21. He was then one of the “old men” and that would give them five “old men” and five “kids” on their crew. His first mission was a milk run into eastern France (27:15) He bombed something, but he doesn’t remember what. He thinks it was a rail barge. This was April 1944. The squadrons would fly as a group. They would fly 3 squadrons as a group and each squadron would put up 7 airplanes, totaling 21. �                     He and his crew were in the 45th Combat Wing. Each squadron would put a wing on so all the planes would have an equal amount of cover fire. They would fly the planes close enough to keep the enemy aircraft from going through. Once in a while, they had an accident where two planes bumped together. Usually you would lose those planes. In the 30 missions he flew, he saw enemy aircraft four times, after seeing it one other time. Two of those four times, there were never any shots fired. The enemy aircraft did shoot at them. They did take a hit. The hydraulics system once caught on fire. The bombardier started screaming that they were on fire and to abandon ship. The big navigator, who was a really calm person, calmed the man down and said they would take care of the ship. And they did. The fire was put out, but the hydraulics system was gone, so everything had to be done manually. When he was flying these missions, a lot of times he could not see the ground at all. That was why they had a radar system on the plane. They would not bomb something unless they did see the target though. He does recall that on D-Day, they did drop bombs on a railway in a little town. The bulk of his missions were over France, though some of them were over Germany. (34:15) He bombed Paris a couple of times. It was terrible because they had really good antiaircraft fire at the time. He did bomb Berlin and received anti-aircraft fire there too. He saw enemy fire four times and they had attack them twice in the thirty missions that they had. To get near the ball bearing works or petroleum works, would mean that you would most likely see enemy fire. The worst place to attack was the ball bearing plant at Frankfurt. He went there once and that was enough. He did other missions rather than bombing missions. One time he went over France and they dropped supplies to the French underground. They never got above an 800 ft. altitude that day. He went there as a group and there was a big open field. They had the three groups that went and they left a lot of stuff. The French would have had to work real hard in order to get everything before the Germans got there. His plane got damaged from ground fire as well. In fact, he got a piece of shrapnel from the anti-aircraft fire. It was pulled from his headset. With the way he was standing, he thinks that if he had turned just a bit, the shrapnel would have gone completely through his earphone instead of catching onto it. Not one of his air crew were injured. On an average mission took him about 10 hours. When he completed his 30 missions that was it for him. While he was there, the requirement was raised, but they had completed their missions before that had happened. He only flew a few months. He was there in April and he finished in August. The last five missions took longer than the first twenty-five did. �            The last five missions took them to Czechoslovakia, twice to Poland, eastern Germany and another place. These missions weren’t necessarily more dangerous, just long. He did fly one mission with another crew, so he did not have to meet that last mission. After the 25th mission they were supposed to be at a rest home for a week, they were there 20 days. The psychiatrist would not release one of their men. The oldest man there was an alcoholic, so they would not let him go back. (40:30) Eventually, he would get sobered up and was allowed back into the missions. He was their turret gunner and he was a good shot. When he wasn’t flying missions, he would do normal exercises and play games. Every few days they would give you a two-day pass to London. He would also try to look for his brother. He knew he was in the 8th Fighter Command Headquarters, working as a cook, but he did not know how to find him. He was sent down to Operations, they would be able to tell him where he was at. So he went there and the clerk said that he could help him and it would only take a few minutes. The clerk disappeared for a couple of minutes and out came a major. The major told him that there was nothing that he could do for him. It would take him 30 years to figure out why he couldn’t find anything out. He would read Eisenhower’s Crusade in Europe book and finally figure out where he was. The reason they could not give him any information was because his brother was in the same compound that Eisenhower was. Just a few days later, his brother would come to find him. He told him how to find him in London. London (0:43:30)          His brother was allowed to stay with a 24 hour pass. He would give his brother his own bunk for the night. At 3am a guy came in to wake him up for a mission. Instead of waking up Lewis, the man would wake up his brother. He offered to take his brother on a mission, over England, but his brother would never fly. Lewis would eventually get a 48 hour pass to go see his brother in England. When his brother got off duty they would go to a pub. They would go to the local dog races several times. His brother’s friend, who was intimate with the world of gambling on the races, would help them out and tell them which dogs to bet on. When they got to the final race the dog they bet on was a scrawny little thing, but he ended up winning. Lewis’ brother could not believe it. He would send home $810 that month. (47:40) He would have luck with cards as well. While he was in London, he saw the House of Wax there, the Tower of London and he would see some of the bombed parts of London as well. While still in London, a buzz bomb had made it through the lines. He heard it quit running and there was quite an explosion. �                    He had to leave the next day, so he did not see the damage done. But he would return two weeks later to check it out. The place smelled so bad because they had not removed all the bodies yet. Once you smell that, you never forget. He and he crew would go in with five other crews, and they would only come out themselves. When they first got to the war, they would have fighter protection. As the newer planes came out, they would be escorted all the way to the target. The worst anti-aircraft fire mission they went on was Paris. They lost six planes that day. Most of their planes would be destroyed in anti-aircraft fire. One plane was on fire everywhere. He could see the copilot trying to keep the plane under control while the fires were being put out. It’s a good thing too, or else they may have been taken out that day too. He doesn’t know if anyone got out of the planes. There was a time when two planes bumped together. One came down and hit the other. The bottom plane split in half. The gunner and another man would fall to their death, from 30,000 ft. One of the crews had become POW. One man was an escapee, but the rest of his crew was still prisoners. (56:55) He remembers when he flew one of their first B-17 flights. He and his crew were carrying two 2,000lbs bombs. The bombardier would yell “Bombs Away!” but nothing happened. He was ordered up there to see if he could do something about it. But they were one ton bombs; there was nothing he could do. He would go back to the front and tell them there was nothing he could do. They sent him back again to see if he could do something. They eventually decided to land the plane at the farthest runway from the base. While he was helping the pilot, he did not even notice the plane touch down. If those bombs had come loose, they would have been blown to smithereens! It turns out there was a piece of the plane that was corroded a little bit. They had a heck of a time getting those bombs out of the plane. He did not get involved too much. It would be a couple of days after he completed his thirty missions when a sergeant came in and ordered them to pack their bags, clear the field, it was time to go home. When they got ready to go, he was ordered to put his stuff in a jeep, while the rest of his crew was ordered to put their stuff in a truck to be taken to the airport. When he got to where he was going, he was informed that he was under arrest for absence without leave for five weeks. His captain would come down to try to figure out what was going on. After giving the captain the information that was required he would have to stay not only on base, but he was restricted to the squadron area. The only time he could leave was to go to the mess hall. He was there for a couple of days and there was nothing to do. The man in charge told him that it was going to take a bit to figure out what was going on and asked him if there was something he would like to do. He wanted to see his brother back in London. The man was ready to give him a 7 day pass. He would go to London for a week and when he came back, he found out the man did not put those 7 days on his record yet. � That was a great thing, because when he got back to the US, he would come down with the chickenpox. This would prevent him from reporting to Miami, where he was supposed to go. Back to the USA (1:07:45)      After he got better, he reported to Miami. From there, he was sent back to Amarillo, Texas. He was there for a while and then was sent to Kingman, Arizona. There he was made a physical training instructor. He tried out for the baseball team there, but did not make it. This would not matter in the end because he was sent to San Antonio for physical instructor school. There he learned how to work with the guys coming through and teach them how to use hand-to-hand combat. From there, he went back to Kingman, but they were shutting the base down. He was sent to Laredo, Texas where he would be discharged. Post Duty (1:10:10)               He took a bus home to Michigan. By then the war was over. On his was back on the bus, there was a Marine sergeant sitting in front of him and in front of the Marine was a woman. The woman was complaining that the war was over and she wished it had gone on longer because she and her husband were living so well. The Marine got so upset that he socked her in the face. There was blood everywhere. At the next bus stop, the driver had her get off and told her to catch the next bus. He doesn’t know what kinds of reports went on from there, but he figured there must have been something. The Marine had broken some of her teeth, but even the bus driver thought the lady was asking for it. Once he got back home, he would work for the Kalamazoo paper company for a while. He would help out with the farm as well, with his brother and his father. His brother would eventually leave and go to Hopkins. It would be in 1957 that he would realize that he had enough of farming. The “family farm” was not the thing anymore. He had bought 120 acres of land to work, but it was not bringing in the kind of money that it had before. He would get a job at the Kalamazoo post office in 1963. Working two full-time jobs was too much for him, so he finally sold the farm. He would stay in the postal service for 30 years. The day he was discharged, the psychiatrist there told them that they would never forget this. He feels he is a better man after serving in the army. You don’t think much in the way of “I’m not going to make it”; you often think those things happen to others, but it can happen to you too. A single man on his crew was injured during combat, and that was his own fault for going out the wrong hatch and getting his finger caught. �       The pilot on his crew was a good pilot. (1:15:20) The man was barely big enough to be a bomber pilot. His crew would become the lead crew; this would happen via the pilot becoming the lead pilot. His squadron commander was sent to his camp to get combat experience. He would eventually be promoted to Brigadier General. He remembers when he was marching one time in England, he was a 1937 Buick. He was paying so much attention to the car, he did not realize there was a general in it, saluting him. Jimmy Stewart was actually a good officer. Apparently he was a general. He did find a way of getting answers from home, by mail quickly. Within a week he got a letters from his two sisters, his brother, and his mother. He had sent his letter home on a B-25. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KelseyL Title A name given to the resource Kelsey, Lewis (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kelsey, Lewis Description An account of the resource Lewis Kelsey was drafted into the army in 1942. He initially was sent for pilot training, but a problem with one eye made him a gunner and flight engineer instead. He trained in B-17s, and his crew was sent to the 8th Air Force in England in April, 1944. He flew 30 missions between April and August, and was then sent back home to serve as an instructor. Most of his missions were over France, supporting the Normandy invasion, but he also flew missions over Germany, Czechoslovakia and Poland. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-11-04 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b642b0c2bfa91d4c1b59b94b5ec567b3.mp4 23f01fa47b4696c453c38f02e824da44 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c9dc698257d992255815f5b7682a72cf.pdf 932251fbaf95ab03bfa145460d2e9942 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Kenneth Kelly (01:47:10) Background • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Born on a farm in Coopersville, MI. (0:24) One of nine children, six boys and three girls (00:30) His father, Asa Kelly, was a WWI veteran. (00:36) His mother was Hazel Easterly, who came from a family with thirteen children. (00:42) Big families were common in those days, as more children helped work on the farm. (00:53) Graduated High School in June of 1943. (00:58) Enlisted in the U.S. Navy construction battalions, the Sea Bees. (1:13) Born on 8/21/1925. (1:19) His family did relatively well during the Depression, despite having a large family. Everyone at the time was in a similar situation. (1:38) Suspects his parents may have had a harder time than the children. (1:52) His father was a school teacher. His mother died in 1937. (2:04) His eldest sister graduated high school the same year his mother died. She acted like a surrogate mother to the younger children. (2:06) Recounts that his father did have a harder time during the depression. (2:30) Three of his brothers served in the Army during WWII (2:45) Father was stationed at “Camp Custer,” which was later “Fort Custer.” (3:00) His father was a Lieutenant during WWI. (3:16) During WWI Asa confiscated a set of dice from some gambling soldiers, and took them home after the war. (3:23) Kenneth's oldest brother went to MSU (all but one went to MSU) and enrolled in the ROTC program at MSU. His brother graduated in 1941. (3:44) His brother was sent to Camp Custer for training. (4:06) Asa and Hazel were married when he was training in Camp Custer, and their eldest son was born in Battle Creek. (4:19) Kenneth spent fifty years selling overhead cranes and monorail equipment. (4:37) After Fort Custer became an industrial park, Japanese and German firms invested in the area. Kenneth sold equipment to these firms. (4:47) Comments on the irony of selling equipment to the Germans and Japanese, when he had fought them in WWII. (5:04) Kenneth did not participate in ROTC, he had only gone to High School at that time. ROTC was not a high school program at the time. (5:16) Enlisted as an apprentice seamen. (5:31) Pre-Enlistment • • • • Served two years, seven months as part of the Navy's construction team. (5:34) Many boys at his high school were worried about being drafted right after graduating. (5:50) Eight to ten boys at his school enlisted prior to graduating. Upon their return from the war they were given diplomas, despite not finishing school. (6:04) Pearl Harbor was attacked when he was sixteen. (6:31) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • At the time of the attack, he was at home listening to a radio show on a Sunday afternoon. The attack was interrupted with an announcement. (6:44) Had no idea where Pearl Harbor was located, but the radio soon informed them. (7:04) The attack took everyone by surprise. The war was brought home to them in a way they had not expected. They had known that President Roosevelt was helping the British, but being very young he hadn't read up about the situation in depth. (7:22) People became even more worried about the draft. (7:54) Some men enlisted in order to avoid being assigned to the Army when they were drafted. (8:07) Men drafted into the army usually became “dog faces” or infantry. (8:09) Worked part time at a local gas station. (8:26) Gasoline was rationed at the time, so he had to learn how to handle the ration coupons. (8:37) The ration was four gallons per week. (9:08) Four gallons per week was not very much, but it was enough for most people to get by at the time. (9:10) A few people cheated the system. (9:25) The gas station was frequently audited by government officials in order to prevent cheating. (9:43) While he was still in high school, he researched the different military branches in order to decide which to enlist in. (10:07) The Navy looked like the best branch for him. The Navy usually had clean beds, good food, and clean clothes. (10:52) A few times in the South Pacific he had to struggle. The lack of fresh water was the most frequent problem. (11:08) Training • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Camp Perry, near Williamsburg, VA was the start of his training. (11:36) Almost all of the Sea Bees were trained at Camp Perry. There were 350,000 Sea Bees in WWII. (11:50) A battalion was formed by eleven hundred men. (12:00) He arrived in Camp Perry in August, left in late October or early November. The next location was in Gulfport, MS. (12:31) At the Tampali Bay base he was given advance training. (12:31) Military training—marching, how to salute, and obey orders was trained at Camp Perry. (12:40) At Tampali Bay, he was given infantry training. The Sea Bees were very involved during invasions. (12:55) The infantry training was for self-defense. (13:26) Primary duty of the Sea Bees was to build bases for other operations. These bases were used by all branches of the military. Most of the bases were in the Pacific. (13:36) Continued his infantry training. (14:07) Went out on bivouac. (14:21) He was surprised at the cold weather in Mississippi. He thought it would be much warmer. (14:36) The tents they slept in weren't fire-resistant. (14:50) They had to get firewood, and store it in the tents. (15:07) Men were put on duty to watch for tent fires. (15:07) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • When he was on guard duty, he often stole wood from other tents. (15:48) Practiced invasions on an island in the Gulf of Mexico. (15:56) While in Mississippi, he went on “liberty” for twelve to twenty-four hours. He usually went to New Orleans during his leave. (16:00) He enlisted at age seventeen. He turned eighteen during training. (16:34) Couldn't drink because he was only seventeen. (16:54) The Navy Blue uniform had three stripes on the collar, and three on the cuffs. Many men in the Navy rolled back there cuffs past the stripes. One day as he was on liberty, some military policeman stopped his group of friends. His friends all had there sleeves rolled back, but he did not. As a result his friends were taken to the holding pen for being out of uniform. Afterwards, he always kept his cuffs unrolled. (16:58-17:45) Camp Perry is still around, but in a different form. He tried visiting the area again twenty-five years later, but was not allowed in. He found out it was the training base, or “Farm” for the CIA. (18:19-18:43) While in Camp Perry the men were formed into battalions. (19:03) He was in the 127th battalion. They trained as a battalion from that point forward. (19:08) The Navy needed men immediately in the Pacific, and they asked the battalion to select men to send out early. The battalions selected men they didn't like. As a result, one of his friends was selected, but he was not. His friend talked him to volunteering. His action was following the advice of a chief petty officer. (19:2519:56) [DVD skips] (20:24-20:28) [DVD skips again] (21:00-21:13) The term “polliwog” was a Navy term for someone who hadn't crossed Equator. Someone who had was called a “shellback.” When he crossed the equator he was given a certificate, and subjected to an initiation. (21:30) His initiation was simply being squirted with sea-water. Some of the other men were smeared with axle grease. The initiation was usually more severe, but there were so many recruits involved it was difficult. (21:34) Had to bow to a man dressed as King Neptune as part of the initiation. (22:17) He purchased some war bonds for $18.75. They matured into $25 bonds later on. He used the bonds to finance part of his wedding. (22:38) Shipped out • • • • • • • • Took off for the Pacific, through the Panama Canal. (23:23) The only time he had fresh water showers was while crossing the Panama canal. The fresh water was from a nearby lake. (23:37) Stopped at the Galapagos Islands, but did not go ashore. (23:55) The destroyer escort had to refuel. (24:00) Destroyer refueled again in Tahiti, and again in New Caledonia. While in New Caledonia, US Navy airplanes flew overhead. One of the planes had engine problems and crashed in the ocean. The men on the plane deployed an orange raft and were picked up by the destroyer. (24:16) New Hebrides Islands were among the first islands used as advance bases. The islands were used to build up supplies and troops. (25:17) At the Espiritu Santu Island he was taken off the boat. There were no barracks on the island, so they slept in a church. (25:52) Had a steel helmet, and a 1933 Springfield rfle. (26:36) �• When sleeping in church, he slept on a pew and used his backpack as a pillow. He slept cradling his rifle. (26:45) • He was put on another ship, this time an LST (Landing Ship Tank) and went to Guadalcanal. They stopped for one day, and were put on another ship. (26:58) • Next they were sent to Kuko Beach. (27:11) • Spend two weeks in New Guinea. (27:19) • Put to work at New Guinea. He worked nights at the ammunitions facility loading and unloading ammunition onto trucks. (27:38) • Got a bad sliver while working, and went to sick bay for treatment. Despite the medical treatment and disinfectant he came down with a severe infection. Part of his finger had to be removed. (28:08) • He was put on another ship, which was a badly maintained “rust bucket.” He still had not seen any combat at this point. (28:50) • Headed for the Admiralty Islands on a convoy with two destroyer escorts. (29:05) • His ship's engine stopped running. All the men were told to watch for submarine periscopes. One of the destroyers came back to check on them, but the other ships kept going. (29:22) • The radio on the ship was also nonfunctional, so the men on the destroyer and the convoy had to use megaphones. (29:50) • They didn't know how long the delay would be. (30:23) • The destroyer had to keep up with the rest of the convoy, and would not be able to stay behind permanently. (30:42) • Experienced electricians on board the ship were able to fix the problems. (30:55) • They managed to catch up with the rest of the convoy. (31:07) • Sailed onto Los Negros islands. (31:15) • Time spent in transit was three months. The battle they had been sent to assist in was still on-going. (31:23) Medals and Symbols • Received a medal for the Asiatic Pacific Theater. He also received two battle-stars, one for the Admiralties, and one for Okinawa. He also received a victory medal and a Good Conduct medal. (31:53) • The symbol with eagle and a circle was put on the uniforms. (31:57) • in 1995 he received a pin as part of the reunion. The inscription reads A grateful nation remembers, WWII 1995 1945.” (33:38) • Joined the 78th Sea Bee regiment, which was one of three in the area. The 40th and 2nd regiments were also used. His initial battalion was split three ways to join the other battalions (34:01) • The symbol on his sweatshirt was drawn by Disney artists in 1943 before he joined the 78th. The 78th had been based in Oxnard, CA and some men had asked the artists to draw them a symbol. The symbol is a fighting bee with a tommy-gun, a monkey wrench and a hammer. (34:16) • The new members of the 78th were not well liked by the older members. The senior members had been deployed from October to November of 1943, and when the new recruits came they knew they wouldn't be going back home soon. (35:49) Admiralties • The men were given tents, which were sixteen feet by sixteen feet. He was part of C Company. They were told where to put the tent, and given stakes. The wooden stakes did not work because of the ground, so they had to get new metal reinforced stakes. (36:42) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • He was on a sandy beach, with palm trees. (37:47) The trees were coconut palms. He enjoyed the pleasant weather, 150 miles from the Equator. (38:20) Most of the men walked about shirtless, in shorts and a cap. Many had sunburns. (38:51) The camp was near a captured air base. It was the first area they had taken. (39:05) Expanded and enlarged the existing air field for four engine bombers. (39:22) The Japanese airfields were not large enough for the large planes, such as the B-24 bombers. (39:23) The bombers began their raids at any hour, but often very early. (40:18) Around 4:00 AM they heard a loud crash, so they went to check the fuel supplies. They had fuel for the bulldozers, dump trucks, cranes, and other construction equipment. (40:35) A plane crashed into the nearby Sea Bee (40th regiment) and exploded. Thirty men were killed, and seventy wounded. (40:59) The area was a mess. He and some others found four unexploded bombs in a whole near the crashed bomber. (41:35) The Sea Bees included older men with construction experience. The average age of the Sea Bees was 37, the average age of the Marine Corps was around 23. Twentyfive men in his regiment were WWI veterans. (42:05) The Sea Bees had learned to improvise with building materials and food supplies. They cut down trees to build a dock in the area. (42:47) Some of the lumber from the mill was inconsistent, although it was good quality overall. They usually used tropical woods, like teak. (44:02) The Sea Bees were often complimented by higher officers because of their speed. Kenneth explains they used shifts to work 24/7. Also, the men didn't have much else to do. Work was a way to relieve boredom. (44:28) End of the war • When the war ended he was driving a tractor at 2 AM in Okinawa. He had been deployed for eighteen months. (45:06) • In Okinawa, he worked on an airfield for B29 bombers. (45:49) • The airstrip was two miles long. (46:00) • It was impossible to hear the air raid sirens over the noise of the tractors. They only knew of an air raid when shots were fired. (46:19) • During bombing raids, most of the Sea Bees hid under their tractors. They were never hit by the bombers as they were after the ships. (46:59) • Heard people cheering while he was running the tractor. He talked to the antiaircraft men, thinking that perhaps there had been a raid, and was informed that the war was over. (47:20) • He shut down the tractor and went back to camp. He was scolded for quitting early. (47:37) Back in the Admiralties, earlier • Worked on the dock at the Admiralties. The Admiralties was the largest base, it was constructed for invasion and re-taking of the Philippines. The area had good harbor facilities. (48:00) • Worked under General MacArthur. (48:44) • While he worked at the dock there were many types of ships: Navy, ammunition, tankers, troop ships, hospital ships, and little boats. (49:00) • One of his friends told him “hey, look” and he saw a huge pillar of smoke and flame. �(49:18) • He had to get under shelter, so he hid underneath a crane. (49:37) • An ammunition ship with three hundred men on board exploded. The hull of the ship was later found with the dead men. Seventy-five men on other ships were killed by debris. (49:58) • Quonset huts were used as a multi-purpose building, everything from barracks and hospitals to warehouses. (51:27) Pictures, Miscellaneous stories(51:59-1:10:46) • The official term of the tents they used was a “shelter-half,” each man carried half a tent which he joined to other halves. (53:26) • Patrol Nat Balintae disappeared during the war. Nat had painted the pictures he showed to the interviewer earlier. (54:10) • While on board, they had a ship-store. At the ship-store they could buy toothpaste, candy, and other items. The store ran at a profit and used the proceeds to create a log book at the end of the war. (55:00) • Phoebe the Sea Bee was in the book, also by Disney. (56:52) • Was in an article by the Grand Rapids Press. (57:19) • His eldest brother was in the Army for thirty years. (57:38) • Ran into his second eldest brother at Okinawa. (57:50) • Has a Japanese pistol from Okinawa. The pistol was based off the German Luger. His brother was in the invasion of Okinawa, and often patrolled behind enemy lines in the anti-tank platoon. He came across a dead Japanese officer and a dead girl. They believed the man had shot the girl and them himself. (59:91) • [Tape switched] (59:36) • In the Grand Rapids Press, there was a picture of him before he joined the Navy. (59:44) • Picture of the Gulfport, MS Sea Bee reunion. (1:00:00) • New Sea bees were also at the reunion. (1:00:26) • They picked coral out of the sea, and used it like concrete. The coral was crushed and then bonded like concrete. (1:01:57) • He operated a “sheep's foot roller.” (1:01:31) • Aleut Island, built an airfield on Panan Island. (1:01:39) • Has a picture of the airfield, which one of his comrades obtained online. The website indicating wrongly that the airfield was built by British and Australians. (1:02:52) • Picture of the cemetery and th chapel. (1:03:39) • The Sea Bees did a lot of earthmoving and drainage. (1:04:13) • Constructed a water tower, which converted salt water into freshwater. (1:04:38) • Has the original plans for Okinawa. They were never fully implemented as the war ended. (1:06:31) • Picture of the exploded fuel pumps, and of an explosion used to mine the coral. (1:07:06) • In November 1944, he was disappointed at not being sent on leave to Australasia. (1:07:45) • There was a brothel in Noumea, which was on the French island of New Caledonia. The US Navy had a special room at the brothel. (1:08:32) • Their chapel was multi-denominational. They held Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish services. (1:08:50) • A picture of a Japanese small craft which was re-built and used by the Navy. (1:10:00) �• • • The camp was about fifty feet from a cliff overlooking the ocean. (1:10:39) Was nominated President of his WWII association. (1:11:00) Two of his grandchildren are GVSU graduates. (1:11:42) Training • Was not trained by WWI veterans. He was trained by members of the US Marines who had served in Panama. (1:11:53) • The Marines hadn't had much experience training other Sea Bee units. The Sea Bees did not respond well to the Marine trainers, as it was full of older experienced construction men. The Marines often cursed at the Sea Bees during training, which the men objected to. Eventually, the some of Sea Bees challenged the Marines to a fight, and won. (1:12:20) • The Marines stopped cursing at the men. (1:13:20) • His commanding officer was a WWI vet, and so were some of the military policemen. (1:13:39) • WWI vets talked somewhat about their experiences in WWI. Most conversation was based on living conditions around the country. (1:14:15) • It was easy to tell where someone was from, based on their accents. (1:14:48) • Believes he was trained adequately for his experiences. (1:15:42) Time in Transport • Took three months for them to get to the assigned location. (1:15:54) • Exercised using calisthenics. (1:15:54) • One of the men on the ship developed spinal meningitis, and parts of the ship were quarantined. (1:16:12) • As a result of the quarantine, they always went to the mess hall last. (1:16:20) • No one else came down with meningitis. The one man who had it recovered. (1:16:46) • Two meals a day. One day they found worms in the beefaroni and complained. They were then given new food. (1:17:22) • The men were often stinky. The saltwater showers and lard-based soap left them unpleasantly greasy, so they showered less. (1:17:35) • Two typhoons while they were in Okinawa, which sink some ships. It also split their tent. (1:18:22) • Tent curtain was kept up most of the time, because of the heat. Everything got wet as a result. (1:19:20) Interaction with civilians • Had direct contact with citizens. (1:19:32) • The Admiralties were all black. (1:19:38) • He sometimes visited civilians, but not frequently. Other men visited more frequently. (1:19:51) • Most of the people were friendly to the Americans. (1:20:06) • Believes this is still true today, mostly. (1:20:20) • Okinawa was more developed. (1:20:43) • Okinawans are not Japanese, and generally dislike the Japanese. He found this out during the reunion. (1:21:00) • During the war, the Japanese told the Okinawans horror stories about the Americans—that they would kill all the men, and rape the women. (1:21:27) • Okinawans moved with the Japanese to avoid the Americans. (1:21:45) • The US Navy was ordered to attack the Japanese • 140,000 civilians were killed in addition to 100,000 Japanese, 9,000 US Army and �• Marines, and 5,000 Navy. (1:22:00) Truman used two atomic bombs. Some of the men worried the Japanese might have atomic bombs. (1:22:50) Leisure • He was allowed to on “liberty” a few times, but he had nowhere to go. (1:23:30) • On the way the way to Okinawa he spent about a week on a small recreation island. (1:23:48) • The recreation island had tennis courts, basketball courts, and he could drink all the beer he wanted. (1:24:20) • Remembers many of the Navy men getting in drunken fights on the island, but that was just good fun at the time. (1:24:34) • Had a pretty good time at the Navy camps. (1:24:50) • Built a base facility to take care of minesweepers. (1:25:04) • The kitchen (where?) had an ice machine. While on active duty the men where allowed two beers a week. He and his friends usually saved up the beer for time off. (1:25:27) • On Sundays they would get the beer, ice from the kitchen, buy cigars and play poker. (1:25:53) Communication/visits his family, other remarks • He was able to keep in contact with his family through the mail service. (1:26:15) • The mail was censored, so he couldn't tell his family where he was located. (1:26:21) • Despite being a teacher, his father did not write many letters, and the letters he did write were only a few paragraphs. (1:26:34) • His aunts on his mother's side sent him letters frequently. (1:26:45) • He managed to find out his brother Dale was on Okinawa, and that his cousin was on another nearby island. He found out from his aunts. (1:27:16) • One day an Army chief came into the base with two grubby soldiers. The men entered the officer tent, and came out shortly after. The two soldiers then removed their helmets, and one of the men was his brother Dale. (1:27:56) • Dale had used the truck ID numbers to find him. Dale had come to the area to visit some wounded men as well. (1:28:55) • Kenneth visited his brother frequently, but had to take a gun with him every time he left the base (1:29:17) • During every battle he was given a gun, which he had to return at the end. (1:29:37) • Did not have any kamikaze scares with during his various voyages. (1:29:52) • He did not directly interact with the Japanese. He was only involved with the Japanese during the frequent air raids. (1:29:55) • The Navy frequently played movies at night in an outdoor theater. He quit one of the movies early because of an air raid, but other men stayed at the movie. (1:30:20) Reunion • The reunion was a wonderful experience for him. (1:30:44) • He flew in on a plane from Osaka, Japan. (1:31:07) • Got off the plane at the Naha airport, which was the capital of Okinawa. (1:31:07) • There were forty to fifty people waiting for them, they all clapped. They were glad to see the Americans return. (1:31:33) • Each night of the reunion had a special ceremony, with different services. Five wreaths were thrown in the water for the dead. (1:31:49) • A memorial hospital in the area was named after a sailor who had been awarded a �• • • • • • • • • • • medal of honor. The sailor was at the reunion. (1:32:12) Went jogging in Osaka. They stayed at a fancy hotel. The flight was going to leave at 11:00. He was jogging with an eighty-five year old, and he was seventy at the time. The man was his room-mate at the hotel, and had been a shipmate during WWII. (1:32:54) He went down a long street, and intended doing a loop around a traffic island. Instead he got lost, and all the street signs were in Japanese. (1:34:01) Came across a taxi, asked for directions. Had to ask for directions multiple times. Eventually he came across a woman who gave him elaborate directions in perfect English (1:34:44) He had left around 6:00 AM, the hotel had a checkout time of 7:00 AM. He got back to the hotel, and his room mate had put his bags outside the room (1:34:54) His roommate’s grandson was in the Marines. He had a broken ankle and had accompanied them on the reunion. (1:35:45) The Commander of the Navy was at the Reunion, and introduced to the grandson. (1:36:10) The Okinawans had a special ceremony for the dead (from the earlier mentioned battle). They listed off the names of each person killed, it took three days and two nights. (1:36:24) They had built a remembrance garden full of trees and pillars. Each pillar was inscribed with the names of the dead. (1:36:50) At the ceremony, Americans and Japanese planted trees together in the garden. (1:37:10) His brother died in 1985, he missed him at the ceremony. (1:37:25) He was in Okinawa for a week. Post-War life • Spent twenty-two years in the Reserves. (1:37:40) • Trained men for Vietnam and Korea. (1:38:48) • Enlisted 1947, began taking a commission in 1949. (1:37:54) • Retired from the Reserves in 1969. (1:38:06) • Trained men in Muskegon, Flint, and Lansing for a short time. (1:38:09) • Was the President of Kelly Sales and Engineering Co. He went to college at MSU. (1:38:30) • Started the business in 19693, operated until 2002. (1:39:00) • Sons joined in the business. (1:39:11) • The business closed in 2002. He retired from the business in 1990, but he still works as an engineer. (1:39:22) Opinions on the War in Iraq • He doesn't think the draft would be appropriate for the war in Iraq, as there are sufficient numbers of volunteers. (1:39:53) • His grandson is in the Army, and will be leaving for his second tour soon. (1:40:07) • Is of the opinion that enlisted men and women accept their job and duty. (1:40:15) • Believes they are welcomed by the Iraqis, especially the youth. (1:40:31) • A unit of Sea Bees is deployed in Iraq, re-building infrastructure and improving existing infrastructure. (1:40:37) More post-War • After the war he was still very young. Discharge was based on a points system, and he had few points due to his age. (1:41:22) • He came home for thirty days near Thanksgiving. He went to a Navy field and �• • • • • • • • • • became military policeman afterwards. (1:41:53) He rode trains from Chicago to Buffalo and back in order to track men. (1:42:16) Had a lot of free times while he was an MP. (1:42:32) Spend most of his free time looking for girls, as did most of his friends. One of his friends had a fake ID he used to buy liquor, and was caught. And jailed for seven days (1:42:48) When they were looking for girls, they weren't really looking for sex, just dance partners and a good time. (1:43:21) He went to a roller-skating rink, and was told the Aragon ball-room in Northwest Chicago would be a good place for girls. (1:43:28) Went to the place, a band was playing. It was a nice place. (1:43:46) It was a special party at the ball-room, so there were no girls without escorts. He complained to the girl running the candy corner, and she gave him the phone number of two of her girlfriends. (1:44:04) He talked to the girls, and they both showed up. He got to pick which one he danced with because he'd made the phone call. He picked Ruth, and married her that September, which was eight months later. She was from Winfield, IL. (1:44:44) He has three sons, seven grandchildren, and five great grandchildren. (1:45:16) Three of his brothers were in the service. Two of his brothers married women who were in the service. His second eldest brother married a woman who had been in the Women’s Army Corps, and his eldest married an Army nurse. (1:45:32) • Ruth had three older brothers in the military. His two sisters married Army men. (1:46:37) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KellyK Title A name given to the resource Kelly, Kenneth (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kelly, Kenneth Description An account of the resource Kenneth Kelly was born on a farm in Coopersville, MI in 1925. He enlisted in the Navy in 1943 and served in a construction battalion (Seabees) in the Pacific theater, primarily in the Admiralties and on Okinawa. He relates several of his experiences while working on war construction projects, and focuses mostly on camp life. He also served in the Reserves for thirty years. The interview includes a description of his experience of the 1995 reunion at Okinawa. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McCauslin, Kelly (Interviewer) Spring Lake District Library (Spring Lake, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-01-19 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/266ee9dd2fc0009ad37acbbec85c20c1.m4v ea5c822007150bfe0ae60e460ae56777 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/63df4bb869ad4a0ace6ded55d3b1ba90.pdf 0e41438bea578748eaf58ac0bb801937 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II George Keller Length of interview (1:30:02) (00:04) Background Was born on a Michigan farm in 1916 and was one of seven siblings. (00:12) Brother was inducted into World War I when George was 2 years old, 1918. (00:29) All of his sibling suffered from diabetes and bad hearing. (01:05) Started grade school in a rural school. (01:25) Family moved to Everett, where he went to school and graduated in 1935. (01:45) Enjoyed school because he was too small to play sports. (01:59) Graduated in the height of the Depression. (02:18) Father had died in 1932, when he was 16 years old. (02:22) Went back to school to become a qualified teacher. (02:28) Moved to Ottawa county to teach for a few years before getting his degree. (04:11) Taught in several rural schools. Had been principal in several small schools. (04:42) Was teaching at a four-room school when Pearl Harbor happened in 1941. (08:15) Was drafted in February, 1943. (08:39) Admits that he hadn’t paid much attention to the war in Europe before Pearl Harbor. (08:51) Was married in 1942. Describes the difficulty of dealing of being drafted. (11:32) (13:32) Basic Training First reported to Camp Custer to take his physical. (13:42) Trained at Camp Claiborne, LA, along the Sabine River. Stayed there for six months (13:50) Were told that they would be practicing maneuvers in swamplands for three months. (14:40) Explains how he was promoted from a Private to a Sergeant. (14:50) Describes the basic training process. Recalls that the rigor of basic training forced him to grow up very quickly. (16:14) Describes some of the difficulty he had with the running courses. (17:35) His specialized job included checking the morning reports of several companies. Describes the difficulty of this because everything was done by hand. (19:26) Trained with the 103rd Division, which had fought in World War I. (22:24) Stayed in Louisiana from February until November. (23:51) Division moved to Texas from August to November, where they were on maneuvers. Describes the conditions during this time. (24:59) Wife came around Christmas and stayed until July. (26:37) Division was called the “Cactus Division.” (26:53) Division went to Texas for glider training. Learned to pack parachutes. (27:22) Describes his living situation while in Texas. (32:47) Recalls his friendship with his typist, who had an anthropology degree from Stanford �University. (36:20) Divison was sent to Southern France in September on a Liberty Ship from Camp Shanks, NY. (38:25) (40:13) Service in Europe Arrived in Marseilles, France with a convoy. (40:13) Walked for 22 miles north of Marseilles to a new Delta Base. Most troops continued on trucks, but theirs didn’t. Describes traveling through the rain. (40:35) At one point, their division wasn’t able to receive rations. Describes meeting a woman who helped them find food and provided a place for them to stay. For a couple weeks, they would listen to the BBC there, which was against the law. (42:11) Traveled north before reaching the Rhine at Worth, France. (45:12) Describes his work in the headquarters, which required him to keep track of casualties. (49:20) Describes his disdain with the living conditions of the civilians. (51:24) Towards the end of the war, his division ended up in Innsbruck, Austria. Division was instructed to ‘liberate’ the city. Describes the experience. (52:24) After clearing out the southern half, they turned the area into a camp. (53:40) Describes meeting a couple women who had snuck back into town. (54:13) Stayed in Innsbruck for about three months, until he received orders to work at General Patton’s headquarters near Munich. Described the comfortable living and working conditions. (55:34) Describes his contact with General Patton. Was often asked to type up top secret endorsements. (58:01) Describes his experience with a coworker who was fratenizing with the Germans. (59:36) Discuss Patton’s political troubles. (1:02:25) Describes Patton as a “picturesque person” who was not disliked during the war. (1:04:16) During this time, he was “so busy [that he] didn’t know what he was doing.” He worked to keep track of the movements of all of the soldiers that were being sent home. Describes the scope of the headquarters’ duties. (1:07:18) Describes his frustration with the women he worked with. (1:09:43) Before he was discharged, he was allowed to attend any university in Europe. Attended the Univeristy of Edinburgh. (05:32) Didn’t enroll in classes because he wanted to learn about the school system in Europe. Found that it was very similar. (06:23) Returned to the United States in December, 1945 from Scotland after his detached service from Hamburg, Germany. Describes his experience having to sleep at Camp Lucky Strike, near Le Havre, France while waiting for reliable transportation. (1:10:37) (1:14:02) Life After Service Returned home in January and recalls that the North Atlantic was very foggy. (1:14:02) Mentions his fascination with historical poetry and astronomy. (1:14:17) Landed in New York before taking a train to Camp Atterbury, Indiana. (1:15:15) Arrived home on January 9. (1:15:44) Worked at a Kelvinator Refrigerators Plant in Wyoming before working with computers. �(1:16:00) Received a call from [Compton] who asked him to be a principal because of his military background. Worked there for about four or five years. (1:17:15) Describes his life with his family and some of the hobbies he enjoyed. (1:18:22) Recalls that his experience in the military made him a man. Says that it was an experience he wouldn’t want to repeat, but he thinks it was worthwhile, nonetheless. (1:19:37) Retired in 1974. (1:25:05) Taught for a total of 35 years. Now he enjoys teaching bible study. (1:28:42) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KellerG Title A name given to the resource Keller, George (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keller, George Description An account of the resource George Keller grew up in Michigan and before his service during World War II, he taught in several rural schools and was a principal for a few small schools. He was drafted in February of 1943, and sent to Louisiana to train with the 103rd Division. He was assigned to the divisional headquarters because of his clerical skills, and was promoted from Private to Sergeant so that his rank fit his position. His division landed in Marseille in the fall of 1944 and joined the 7th Army in Alsace. In 1945, they crossed the Rhine and ended the war in Innsbruck, Austria. After thw ear was over, he was transferred to General Patton's headquarters in Munich, where he worked for several months before being shipped home. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-05-28 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/07f0e6dc43746931a3690af30f2367c7.mp4 5dc77942d8053aa2e780e3a718dcaed3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2becb78cc72f3e08bb134f14bcd5ae87.pdf 814bbe3c46490c1072b21df8cb490ed7 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Herman Keizer Pre-Vietnam, Vietnam War, and Post -Vietnam 2 hours 12 minutes Interview begins @ 00:03:30 (00:03:32) Early Life -Born in Chicago, Illinois on May 21, 1938 -Oldest of seven children -Had lots of opportunities growing up in Chicago -Moved to the suburb of Cicero at the age of six -Went to a Christian Reformed school until second grade -Went to a Lutheran grammar school after second grade -Good teachers and small classes -Went to J. Sterling High School in Cicero -Had a full time job at the time and also went to school -Wanted to go into the ministry -Was heavily involved in the church at a young age -Started teaching Sunday School -Considered going to the Calvin College Seminary -Wanted a Classically driven education -Calvin was also Christian Reformed so it was their denomination of belief (00:09:11) Calvin College -Took a year off after high school to save money -While at Calvin he worked part time jobs -Went broke by the first part of his senior year -Had no frame of reference for a higher education -Came from a family and an area where higher education was nonexistent -College was foreign to him, and difficult (00:11:39) Draft and Training Overview -One year before graduation got drafted in 1962 -Taking a break from college made him liable to be drafted -Was sent to Fort Knox, Kentucky for basic training -Chaplain’s wife heard him singing during a service and told him he should join the choir -Chaplain asked him if he wanted to become a Chaplain’s Assistant -Went to Fort Dix, New Jersey for Clerical Training -Sent to Fort Belvoir, Virginia for a permanent deployment (00:13:45) Details on Basic Training -Goal is to strip you of your identity -Same haircut, same uniform, act the same -You start to become a soldier gradually -It felt like a series of small graduations at the end of each week -Learning how to march, handle a rifle, and live in the field �-Took a twenty mile march at the end of field training -Army struggles with making it seem like you’re part of a constant team -Needs to instill a cohort system for bonding (train together, fight together) -There was not a lot of emotional conflict -Studied to be a chaplain and trained to be a soldier -A Chaplain’s Assistant meant he would protect the chaplain (00:18:16) Military and Chaplaincy -Being in the military helped to push him towards the end goal of becoming a chaplain -Saw how instrumental chaplains were in the military -Ran into clergy from all different faiths -Enlightening experience, the differences didn’t matter -Saw cooperation without compromising of faith -Remembers that chaplains were important for the morale of soldiers (00:22:40) Cuban Missile Crisis and Fort Belvoir -Knew of trouble in Vietnam, but the main concern was Cuba -Got deployed to Florida in the event that an invasion was launched -Helped engineers at Fort Belvoir get ready to move down to Florida Coast -Worked full time with the chaplain at Fort Belvoir -Would have had to go in with the first wave if Cuba was invaded -Chaplains would have been extremely necessary and would have needed protection -Confidentiality was key and instrumental for advocacy amongst the soldiers -With confidential information he could challenge officers that were being unethical -Confronted a 4 star general once -Tremendous sense of excitement and foreboding during the Cuban Missile Crisis -Only twenty miles away from Washington D.C. -Heard news about Cuba in real time because of how close he was to the capitol -Nuclear strike was a very real threat -Was ready to go fight if necessary -Knew severity of nuclear warfare -Threat of nuclear holocaust was an everyday part of civilian life -Saw tapes that showed the extreme power of a nuclear weapon (00:31:38) JFK Assassination -Just got off guard duty at Fort Belvoir when he saw the report that JFK had been assassinated -Immediately told his company commander -Held memorial services -Busy time because of planning for memorials -Fort Myer and Fort Belvoir engineers built the first eternal flame -There wasn’t a lot of time to reflect or mourn the president’s death -Tremendous increase in paranoia over Russian and/or Cuban involvement in JFK’s death -Community involvement in the march to Arlington Cemetery was stirring (00:34:34) Returning to Calvin College -Returned to Calvin College to pursue an education in the Seminary -Got married to a nurse from Blodgett Hospital in 1964 -Finished Calvin in 1965 -More discipline and older age was helpful in completing studies -G.I. Bill helped to negate the major monetary concerns �-Had a clear direction as to what he wanted to get out of college -Spent three years in the Calvin College Seminary after that -Confined area for studying scripture, theology, and ethics -Took comprehensive exam -Hebrew, Greek, and theology were major subjects -Exams helped pull the knowledge together -After comprehensive exam took classical exam (00:39:20) Military Requirements for Chaplaincy -Being a chaplain in the Army required formal education -A Masters in Theology to be specific -Needed to be a part of a religion that has constituency and can sponsor you -Army wanted to curtail fraud -Needed to have endorsement from religion that could be retracted if necessary -Kept people who weren’t equipped to be chaplains out of that service -Had to be able to have a split allegiance to both the U.S Army and Christianity -Would not compromise faith for orders -Graduating from Seminary was just one step -Had to go through Classical and then on to being ordained (00:45:51) Becoming a Chaplain and Fort Gordon, Georgia -Parents supported chaplaincy decision -Wished he would have aimed for getting a church instead though -Fuller Avenue Christian Reformed Church called him for chaplaincy -At this point also got Captain’s Commission from the Army -Got ordained and endorsed -Had to go active duty -Deployment was to Fort Gordon, Georgia -Didn’t know anyone that was already there -Chaplains that hadn’t already gone through basic training weren’t forced to go through that -Instead they were given physical training and an education on the Geneva Convention -Having military experience was helpful at Fort Gordon -Could get right into his chaplaincy -Soldiers trusted him because he was trained -Fort Gordon was a signal center at the time -Wide array of people were there -Fort was active twenty four hours a day (00:51:40) Deployment to Vietnam -Buildup was happening -Knew that within six months he would have to go to Vietnam -Did four months of signal school -Did two months of physical training to be prepared to be in a combat zone -Was flown to Vietnam in a chartered commercial flight -Landed in Tan Son Nhut Air Base -Noticed that Vietnam had its own smell -Food, feces, and the smell of open sewage -Senses were bombarded getting off the plane -Hot and humid as well �-Assigned to the 1st Infantry Division northeast of Saigon -Specifically assigned to the 1st Battalion of 26th Regiment of the 1st Infantry Division (00:54:54) Lai Khe -Sent to Lai Khe -Former rubber plantation in southern Vietnam near Saigon -Met the chaplain that he was replacing -Warned of and briefed on the difficult times that he would experience -Was greeted by Colonel Radcliffe -Told that he could move freely between the base camp and Lai Khe -Keizer requested that he would be allowed to go out into the field -Colonel resisted at first and then acquiesced -Given the rundown about being in the field -He was allowed to pick units that he felt needed the morale boost the most -Admired the abilities of commanders -Could organize and manage the artillery, air, and ground movements -Had to deal with uncharted jungles (01:03:26) In the Field-The 1st Time -First time in the field was uneventful -Secured a positioned so that other troops could move in -Discovered signs of Viet Cong and North Vietnamese presence -Felt good not causing problems by being there -Could be a soldier and a minister -Gave affirmation the commander and eased his wariness (01:05:38) In the Field-The 3rd Time -Third time that they went out they made contact -Point man stopped because he saw a booby trap -Claymore mines were set off remotely by the Viet Cong -Viet Cong opened fire but weren’t able to wound or kill anyone -U.S. troops reacted immediately and killed fifteen V.C. -Remembers that the engagement was loud, and heard bullets going over his head -Seeing the damage of a Claymore mine was unsettling -There was fear, but being afraid was healthy and helpful -Moved the V.C. bodies, searched them for intel and tried to pick up the trail -Kept moving trying to stay on their trail -Slow, persistent, and deliberate -Never found them -Spent two days in the field and then returned to the firebase (01:11:05) Discovery of a Base -Bulldozer collapsed into a bunker while clearing foliage -Five story deep tunnel system used by the Viet Cong -Complex and intricate (hospital, communications, and sophisticated flue system) -Found a cemetery -Finding a cemetery indicated they were on top of a large base -Viet Cong were extremely dug in and tenacious (01:13:30) International Relations -Did not have a lot of contact with South Vietnamese troops at first �-After the U.S. special forces and the South Vietnamese Army invaded Cambodia contact with the South Vietnamese increased -There were racial tensions between local indigenous people and the South Vietnamese -Interacted with the Australians -Replaced chaplain that was going on R&R -Not a lot of South Vietnamese chaplains -South Korean chaplains were fairly common (01:16:45) Daily Routine in Vietnam -Services were not bound to Sundays -Where the chaplain went and when he went was when the service was -He and a Catholic priest would fly out together from their base camp everyday -Upon returning he would eat dinner, shower, and then go to the hospital until midnight -During services in the field there was cooperation -Protestants guarded the Catholics and vice versa -Tried to bring Jewish literature and incorporate Jewish scripture for Jewish soldiers (01:19:33) Cambodia -Discovered that they were in the middle of a Viet Cong training ground -At night they got hit by mortar and rocket fire -Sustained a concussion, skull fracture, and shrapnel wounds -Had to fight through the night -He was given a flak jacket and a .45 pistol -Went and tended to the wounded -Aided medic who was treating a soldier that was severely wounded -Prayed and comforted the soldiers that were mortally wounded -Stayed on the base and was treated there -Wanted to stay with the soldiers -Conducted a memorial service the next day (01:25:57) An Khe and Coming Home -Returned to An Khe after Cambodia -4th Infantry was being rotated into An Khe -Helipad had been altered -Pilot wasn’t accustomed to the different helipad -Helicopter crashed -He fell out and broke both of his arms -Went to the hospital at An Khe -Stabilized there -Move to Camp Zama, Japan -Further stabilization, surgery, and medical processing -Sent to the Great Lakes Naval Hospital in Illinois -Stayed there for five months -Got to reunite with his wife, parents, and see his son who was nine months old (01:28:54) Fort Carson and Background on Drugs & Alcohol Program -Sent to Fort Carson, Colorado -Acted as a hospital chaplain -Still needed to meet with physical therapists because of broken arms -Went to a variety of Ivy League schools to gather info for drug & alcohol program �-Was eventually sent to the Pentagon to deliver information and program outline -Problems existed in Europe concerning race relations and drugs -Sent to Wurzburg, Germany as a special advisor for the commander of the 4th Infantry Division -Cocaine and heroin were prevalent in Vietnam -Extremely pure and also very cheap -“A $5 habit a day in Vietnam was $100 a day in New York.” -Alcohol was also a major problem amongst soldiers (01:32:45) Drugs & Alcohol Program Details -Worked with clinical psychologist and psychiatrist in a detox ward in Germany -Program was not meant to be a medical model -Just a way to get the command involved with the issue at hand -Put together briefing -Believed that it would take a combination of leadership from best lieutenant colonels and education -Taught about urine analysis and drug education -Saw unethical conduct in Schaffenburg, Germany -Commander was concerned about maintaining reputation -Didn’t want to be seen as a commander of drug users -Needed to know how to help them -Briefed the Commander of Army Europe on the situation -Got assigned to train drug abuse counselors all over Europe -Established a drug education school in Bremerhaven, Germany -Ran it for two years (01:36:31) Chaplaincy in the States -Returned to the U.S. -Went to chaplain advanced course -Learned how to serve commanders at the next highest level -Selected for advanced civilian schooling -Sent to Columbia University Teachers’ College for one year -Got a Master’s in education -Spent two years in the faculty at Brooklyn -Spent two years in Fort Monmouth -Was part of the staff at first and then became a trainer -Supposed to go back to Europe -Wound up getting placed in a newly formed position -Served Deputy Chief of Staff Maxwell Thurman -Got invited to social functions thrown by Thurman -Worked for him for three years -Wrote papers for the chief of staff concerning leadership -Wrote a paper detailing the conduct for helping Army families (01:41:45) September 11, 2001 -Was working at the State Department -Special advisor to the ambassador for International Religious Freedom -Coworker came in and said that the World Trade Center had been hit -Saw the second plane hit on live TV -Bomb warning went off in the State Department to evacuate �-Had to go through a special computer shutdown procedure for security purposes -Was prepared to go over to the Pentagon to address the Unified Chaplains over lunch -Saw smoke pouring out of the Pentagon -Advised State Department employees to go home -Walked over to the Pentagon -Volunteers were gathering to go and gather the dead -Some was asking for a person with mortuary experience -He helped to establish a basic mortuary -Went into the center courtyard of the Pentagon and helped the firefighters there -Started to visit surrounding hospitals (01:45:04) Post 9/11 -Asked to help with security the next day at the State Department -Compiled list of countries that were active in the World Trade Center -Helped to discern that it was not an attack on America, it was an attack on the world -Lost a lot of good friends in the Pentagon on 9/11 (01:48:50) Reflections on Service -Spent forty years in the Army -It gave him the opportunity to be able to work for soldiers and their families -Got to be responsible for all of the chaplains from all of the branches in Europe -Saw monumental occurrences in modern history -Rwanda, the Ivory Coast, Bosnia, and Kosovo -Was able to see firsthand the fall of the Soviet Union -Helped reestablish chaplaincy positions in Eastern European countries -Sense of accomplishment being able to see first chaplains graduate from those countries -Feels like he is part of a distinguished legacy of servicemen � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KeizerH0437V Title A name given to the resource Keizer, Herman (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keizer, Herman Description An account of the resource Herman Keizer was born in Chicago, Illinois, in 1938 and grew up in the suburb of Cicero. He attended Calvin College in Michigan and was drafted in 1962. He trained at Fort Knox, Kentucky for basic training, and on to Fort Dix, New Jersey for clerical training, and was deployed to Fort Belvoir, Virginia, where he served as a chaplain's assistant. He was on standby during the Cuban Missile Crisis. After completing seminary at Calvin College he became an Army chaplain and served in Vietnam with the 1st Infantry Division at the time of the Cambodian incursion in 1970. After the war he served as a high ranking chaplain in Europe, the United States, the State Department, and the Pentagon until his retirement. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-07-25 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/65ecfc5d5214cdf99d6ddf3aadfe8e5a.mp4 88bdd2ccb53fc0914d3cfe94a961ec10 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3f6e657103b5058980cb58a9451976e3.pdf 932251fbaf95ab03bfa145460d2e9942 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Kenneth Kelly (01:47:10) Background • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Born on a farm in Coopersville, MI. (0:24) One of nine children, six boys and three girls (00:30) His father, Asa Kelly, was a WWI veteran. (00:36) His mother was Hazel Easterly, who came from a family with thirteen children. (00:42) Big families were common in those days, as more children helped work on the farm. (00:53) Graduated High School in June of 1943. (00:58) Enlisted in the U.S. Navy construction battalions, the Sea Bees. (1:13) Born on 8/21/1925. (1:19) His family did relatively well during the Depression, despite having a large family. Everyone at the time was in a similar situation. (1:38) Suspects his parents may have had a harder time than the children. (1:52) His father was a school teacher. His mother died in 1937. (2:04) His eldest sister graduated high school the same year his mother died. She acted like a surrogate mother to the younger children. (2:06) Recounts that his father did have a harder time during the depression. (2:30) Three of his brothers served in the Army during WWII (2:45) Father was stationed at “Camp Custer,” which was later “Fort Custer.” (3:00) His father was a Lieutenant during WWI. (3:16) During WWI Asa confiscated a set of dice from some gambling soldiers, and took them home after the war. (3:23) Kenneth's oldest brother went to MSU (all but one went to MSU) and enrolled in the ROTC program at MSU. His brother graduated in 1941. (3:44) His brother was sent to Camp Custer for training. (4:06) Asa and Hazel were married when he was training in Camp Custer, and their eldest son was born in Battle Creek. (4:19) Kenneth spent fifty years selling overhead cranes and monorail equipment. (4:37) After Fort Custer became an industrial park, Japanese and German firms invested in the area. Kenneth sold equipment to these firms. (4:47) Comments on the irony of selling equipment to the Germans and Japanese, when he had fought them in WWII. (5:04) Kenneth did not participate in ROTC, he had only gone to High School at that time. ROTC was not a high school program at the time. (5:16) Enlisted as an apprentice seamen. (5:31) Pre-Enlistment • • • • Served two years, seven months as part of the Navy's construction team. (5:34) Many boys at his high school were worried about being drafted right after graduating. (5:50) Eight to ten boys at his school enlisted prior to graduating. Upon their return from the war they were given diplomas, despite not finishing school. (6:04) Pearl Harbor was attacked when he was sixteen. (6:31) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • At the time of the attack, he was at home listening to a radio show on a Sunday afternoon. The attack was interrupted with an announcement. (6:44) Had no idea where Pearl Harbor was located, but the radio soon informed them. (7:04) The attack took everyone by surprise. The war was brought home to them in a way they had not expected. They had known that President Roosevelt was helping the British, but being very young he hadn't read up about the situation in depth. (7:22) People became even more worried about the draft. (7:54) Some men enlisted in order to avoid being assigned to the Army when they were drafted. (8:07) Men drafted into the army usually became “dog faces” or infantry. (8:09) Worked part time at a local gas station. (8:26) Gasoline was rationed at the time, so he had to learn how to handle the ration coupons. (8:37) The ration was four gallons per week. (9:08) Four gallons per week was not very much, but it was enough for most people to get by at the time. (9:10) A few people cheated the system. (9:25) The gas station was frequently audited by government officials in order to prevent cheating. (9:43) While he was still in high school, he researched the different military branches in order to decide which to enlist in. (10:07) The Navy looked like the best branch for him. The Navy usually had clean beds, good food, and clean clothes. (10:52) A few times in the South Pacific he had to struggle. The lack of fresh water was the most frequent problem. (11:08) Training • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Camp Perry, near Williamsburg, VA was the start of his training. (11:36) Almost all of the Sea Bees were trained at Camp Perry. There were 350,000 Sea Bees in WWII. (11:50) A battalion was formed by eleven hundred men. (12:00) He arrived in Camp Perry in August, left in late October or early November. The next location was in Gulfport, MS. (12:31) At the Tampali Bay base he was given advance training. (12:31) Military training—marching, how to salute, and obey orders was trained at Camp Perry. (12:40) At Tampali Bay, he was given infantry training. The Sea Bees were very involved during invasions. (12:55) The infantry training was for self-defense. (13:26) Primary duty of the Sea Bees was to build bases for other operations. These bases were used by all branches of the military. Most of the bases were in the Pacific. (13:36) Continued his infantry training. (14:07) Went out on bivouac. (14:21) He was surprised at the cold weather in Mississippi. He thought it would be much warmer. (14:36) The tents they slept in weren't fire-resistant. (14:50) They had to get firewood, and store it in the tents. (15:07) Men were put on duty to watch for tent fires. (15:07) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • When he was on guard duty, he often stole wood from other tents. (15:48) Practiced invasions on an island in the Gulf of Mexico. (15:56) While in Mississippi, he went on “liberty” for twelve to twenty-four hours. He usually went to New Orleans during his leave. (16:00) He enlisted at age seventeen. He turned eighteen during training. (16:34) Couldn't drink because he was only seventeen. (16:54) The Navy Blue uniform had three stripes on the collar, and three on the cuffs. Many men in the Navy rolled back there cuffs past the stripes. One day as he was on liberty, some military policeman stopped his group of friends. His friends all had there sleeves rolled back, but he did not. As a result his friends were taken to the holding pen for being out of uniform. Afterwards, he always kept his cuffs unrolled. (16:58-17:45) Camp Perry is still around, but in a different form. He tried visiting the area again twenty-five years later, but was not allowed in. He found out it was the training base, or “Farm” for the CIA. (18:19-18:43) While in Camp Perry the men were formed into battalions. (19:03) He was in the 127th battalion. They trained as a battalion from that point forward. (19:08) The Navy needed men immediately in the Pacific, and they asked the battalion to select men to send out early. The battalions selected men they didn't like. As a result, one of his friends was selected, but he was not. His friend talked him to volunteering. His action was following the advice of a chief petty officer. (19:2519:56) [DVD skips] (20:24-20:28) [DVD skips again] (21:00-21:13) The term “polliwog” was a Navy term for someone who hadn't crossed Equator. Someone who had was called a “shellback.” When he crossed the equator he was given a certificate, and subjected to an initiation. (21:30) His initiation was simply being squirted with sea-water. Some of the other men were smeared with axle grease. The initiation was usually more severe, but there were so many recruits involved it was difficult. (21:34) Had to bow to a man dressed as King Neptune as part of the initiation. (22:17) He purchased some war bonds for $18.75. They matured into $25 bonds later on. He used the bonds to finance part of his wedding. (22:38) Shipped out • • • • • • • • Took off for the Pacific, through the Panama Canal. (23:23) The only time he had fresh water showers was while crossing the Panama canal. The fresh water was from a nearby lake. (23:37) Stopped at the Galapagos Islands, but did not go ashore. (23:55) The destroyer escort had to refuel. (24:00) Destroyer refueled again in Tahiti, and again in New Caledonia. While in New Caledonia, US Navy airplanes flew overhead. One of the planes had engine problems and crashed in the ocean. The men on the plane deployed an orange raft and were picked up by the destroyer. (24:16) New Hebrides Islands were among the first islands used as advance bases. The islands were used to build up supplies and troops. (25:17) At the Espiritu Santu Island he was taken off the boat. There were no barracks on the island, so they slept in a church. (25:52) Had a steel helmet, and a 1933 Springfield rfle. (26:36) �• When sleeping in church, he slept on a pew and used his backpack as a pillow. He slept cradling his rifle. (26:45) • He was put on another ship, this time an LST (Landing Ship Tank) and went to Guadalcanal. They stopped for one day, and were put on another ship. (26:58) • Next they were sent to Kuko Beach. (27:11) • Spend two weeks in New Guinea. (27:19) • Put to work at New Guinea. He worked nights at the ammunitions facility loading and unloading ammunition onto trucks. (27:38) • Got a bad sliver while working, and went to sick bay for treatment. Despite the medical treatment and disinfectant he came down with a severe infection. Part of his finger had to be removed. (28:08) • He was put on another ship, which was a badly maintained “rust bucket.” He still had not seen any combat at this point. (28:50) • Headed for the Admiralty Islands on a convoy with two destroyer escorts. (29:05) • His ship's engine stopped running. All the men were told to watch for submarine periscopes. One of the destroyers came back to check on them, but the other ships kept going. (29:22) • The radio on the ship was also nonfunctional, so the men on the destroyer and the convoy had to use megaphones. (29:50) • They didn't know how long the delay would be. (30:23) • The destroyer had to keep up with the rest of the convoy, and would not be able to stay behind permanently. (30:42) • Experienced electricians on board the ship were able to fix the problems. (30:55) • They managed to catch up with the rest of the convoy. (31:07) • Sailed onto Los Negros islands. (31:15) • Time spent in transit was three months. The battle they had been sent to assist in was still on-going. (31:23) Medals and Symbols • Received a medal for the Asiatic Pacific Theater. He also received two battle-stars, one for the Admiralties, and one for Okinawa. He also received a victory medal and a Good Conduct medal. (31:53) • The symbol with eagle and a circle was put on the uniforms. (31:57) • in 1995 he received a pin as part of the reunion. The inscription reads A grateful nation remembers, WWII 1995 1945.” (33:38) • Joined the 78th Sea Bee regiment, which was one of three in the area. The 40th and 2nd regiments were also used. His initial battalion was split three ways to join the other battalions (34:01) • The symbol on his sweatshirt was drawn by Disney artists in 1943 before he joined the 78th. The 78th had been based in Oxnard, CA and some men had asked the artists to draw them a symbol. The symbol is a fighting bee with a tommy-gun, a monkey wrench and a hammer. (34:16) • The new members of the 78th were not well liked by the older members. The senior members had been deployed from October to November of 1943, and when the new recruits came they knew they wouldn't be going back home soon. (35:49) Admiralties • The men were given tents, which were sixteen feet by sixteen feet. He was part of C Company. They were told where to put the tent, and given stakes. The wooden stakes did not work because of the ground, so they had to get new metal reinforced stakes. (36:42) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • He was on a sandy beach, with palm trees. (37:47) The trees were coconut palms. He enjoyed the pleasant weather, 150 miles from the Equator. (38:20) Most of the men walked about shirtless, in shorts and a cap. Many had sunburns. (38:51) The camp was near a captured air base. It was the first area they had taken. (39:05) Expanded and enlarged the existing air field for four engine bombers. (39:22) The Japanese airfields were not large enough for the large planes, such as the B-24 bombers. (39:23) The bombers began their raids at any hour, but often very early. (40:18) Around 4:00 AM they heard a loud crash, so they went to check the fuel supplies. They had fuel for the bulldozers, dump trucks, cranes, and other construction equipment. (40:35) A plane crashed into the nearby Sea Bee (40th regiment) and exploded. Thirty men were killed, and seventy wounded. (40:59) The area was a mess. He and some others found four unexploded bombs in a whole near the crashed bomber. (41:35) The Sea Bees included older men with construction experience. The average age of the Sea Bees was 37, the average age of the Marine Corps was around 23. Twentyfive men in his regiment were WWI veterans. (42:05) The Sea Bees had learned to improvise with building materials and food supplies. They cut down trees to build a dock in the area. (42:47) Some of the lumber from the mill was inconsistent, although it was good quality overall. They usually used tropical woods, like teak. (44:02) The Sea Bees were often complimented by higher officers because of their speed. Kenneth explains they used shifts to work 24/7. Also, the men didn't have much else to do. Work was a way to relieve boredom. (44:28) End of the war • When the war ended he was driving a tractor at 2 AM in Okinawa. He had been deployed for eighteen months. (45:06) • In Okinawa, he worked on an airfield for B29 bombers. (45:49) • The airstrip was two miles long. (46:00) • It was impossible to hear the air raid sirens over the noise of the tractors. They only knew of an air raid when shots were fired. (46:19) • During bombing raids, most of the Sea Bees hid under their tractors. They were never hit by the bombers as they were after the ships. (46:59) • Heard people cheering while he was running the tractor. He talked to the antiaircraft men, thinking that perhaps there had been a raid, and was informed that the war was over. (47:20) • He shut down the tractor and went back to camp. He was scolded for quitting early. (47:37) Back in the Admiralties, earlier • Worked on the dock at the Admiralties. The Admiralties was the largest base, it was constructed for invasion and re-taking of the Philippines. The area had good harbor facilities. (48:00) • Worked under General MacArthur. (48:44) • While he worked at the dock there were many types of ships: Navy, ammunition, tankers, troop ships, hospital ships, and little boats. (49:00) • One of his friends told him “hey, look” and he saw a huge pillar of smoke and flame. �(49:18) • He had to get under shelter, so he hid underneath a crane. (49:37) • An ammunition ship with three hundred men on board exploded. The hull of the ship was later found with the dead men. Seventy-five men on other ships were killed by debris. (49:58) • Quonset huts were used as a multi-purpose building, everything from barracks and hospitals to warehouses. (51:27) Pictures, Miscellaneous stories(51:59-1:10:46) • The official term of the tents they used was a “shelter-half,” each man carried half a tent which he joined to other halves. (53:26) • Patrol Nat Balintae disappeared during the war. Nat had painted the pictures he showed to the interviewer earlier. (54:10) • While on board, they had a ship-store. At the ship-store they could buy toothpaste, candy, and other items. The store ran at a profit and used the proceeds to create a log book at the end of the war. (55:00) • Phoebe the Sea Bee was in the book, also by Disney. (56:52) • Was in an article by the Grand Rapids Press. (57:19) • His eldest brother was in the Army for thirty years. (57:38) • Ran into his second eldest brother at Okinawa. (57:50) • Has a Japanese pistol from Okinawa. The pistol was based off the German Luger. His brother was in the invasion of Okinawa, and often patrolled behind enemy lines in the anti-tank platoon. He came across a dead Japanese officer and a dead girl. They believed the man had shot the girl and them himself. (59:91) • [Tape switched] (59:36) • In the Grand Rapids Press, there was a picture of him before he joined the Navy. (59:44) • Picture of the Gulfport, MS Sea Bee reunion. (1:00:00) • New Sea bees were also at the reunion. (1:00:26) • They picked coral out of the sea, and used it like concrete. The coral was crushed and then bonded like concrete. (1:01:57) • He operated a “sheep's foot roller.” (1:01:31) • Aleut Island, built an airfield on Panan Island. (1:01:39) • Has a picture of the airfield, which one of his comrades obtained online. The website indicating wrongly that the airfield was built by British and Australians. (1:02:52) • Picture of the cemetery and th chapel. (1:03:39) • The Sea Bees did a lot of earthmoving and drainage. (1:04:13) • Constructed a water tower, which converted salt water into freshwater. (1:04:38) • Has the original plans for Okinawa. They were never fully implemented as the war ended. (1:06:31) • Picture of the exploded fuel pumps, and of an explosion used to mine the coral. (1:07:06) • In November 1944, he was disappointed at not being sent on leave to Australasia. (1:07:45) • There was a brothel in Noumea, which was on the French island of New Caledonia. The US Navy had a special room at the brothel. (1:08:32) • Their chapel was multi-denominational. They held Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish services. (1:08:50) • A picture of a Japanese small craft which was re-built and used by the Navy. (1:10:00) �• • • The camp was about fifty feet from a cliff overlooking the ocean. (1:10:39) Was nominated President of his WWII association. (1:11:00) Two of his grandchildren are GVSU graduates. (1:11:42) Training • Was not trained by WWI veterans. He was trained by members of the US Marines who had served in Panama. (1:11:53) • The Marines hadn't had much experience training other Sea Bee units. The Sea Bees did not respond well to the Marine trainers, as it was full of older experienced construction men. The Marines often cursed at the Sea Bees during training, which the men objected to. Eventually, the some of Sea Bees challenged the Marines to a fight, and won. (1:12:20) • The Marines stopped cursing at the men. (1:13:20) • His commanding officer was a WWI vet, and so were some of the military policemen. (1:13:39) • WWI vets talked somewhat about their experiences in WWI. Most conversation was based on living conditions around the country. (1:14:15) • It was easy to tell where someone was from, based on their accents. (1:14:48) • Believes he was trained adequately for his experiences. (1:15:42) Time in Transport • Took three months for them to get to the assigned location. (1:15:54) • Exercised using calisthenics. (1:15:54) • One of the men on the ship developed spinal meningitis, and parts of the ship were quarantined. (1:16:12) • As a result of the quarantine, they always went to the mess hall last. (1:16:20) • No one else came down with meningitis. The one man who had it recovered. (1:16:46) • Two meals a day. One day they found worms in the beefaroni and complained. They were then given new food. (1:17:22) • The men were often stinky. The saltwater showers and lard-based soap left them unpleasantly greasy, so they showered less. (1:17:35) • Two typhoons while they were in Okinawa, which sink some ships. It also split their tent. (1:18:22) • Tent curtain was kept up most of the time, because of the heat. Everything got wet as a result. (1:19:20) Interaction with civilians • Had direct contact with citizens. (1:19:32) • The Admiralties were all black. (1:19:38) • He sometimes visited civilians, but not frequently. Other men visited more frequently. (1:19:51) • Most of the people were friendly to the Americans. (1:20:06) • Believes this is still true today, mostly. (1:20:20) • Okinawa was more developed. (1:20:43) • Okinawans are not Japanese, and generally dislike the Japanese. He found this out during the reunion. (1:21:00) • During the war, the Japanese told the Okinawans horror stories about the Americans—that they would kill all the men, and rape the women. (1:21:27) • Okinawans moved with the Japanese to avoid the Americans. (1:21:45) • The US Navy was ordered to attack the Japanese • 140,000 civilians were killed in addition to 100,000 Japanese, 9,000 US Army and �• Marines, and 5,000 Navy. (1:22:00) Truman used two atomic bombs. Some of the men worried the Japanese might have atomic bombs. (1:22:50) Leisure • He was allowed to on “liberty” a few times, but he had nowhere to go. (1:23:30) • On the way the way to Okinawa he spent about a week on a small recreation island. (1:23:48) • The recreation island had tennis courts, basketball courts, and he could drink all the beer he wanted. (1:24:20) • Remembers many of the Navy men getting in drunken fights on the island, but that was just good fun at the time. (1:24:34) • Had a pretty good time at the Navy camps. (1:24:50) • Built a base facility to take care of minesweepers. (1:25:04) • The kitchen (where?) had an ice machine. While on active duty the men where allowed two beers a week. He and his friends usually saved up the beer for time off. (1:25:27) • On Sundays they would get the beer, ice from the kitchen, buy cigars and play poker. (1:25:53) Communication/visits his family, other remarks • He was able to keep in contact with his family through the mail service. (1:26:15) • The mail was censored, so he couldn't tell his family where he was located. (1:26:21) • Despite being a teacher, his father did not write many letters, and the letters he did write were only a few paragraphs. (1:26:34) • His aunts on his mother's side sent him letters frequently. (1:26:45) • He managed to find out his brother Dale was on Okinawa, and that his cousin was on another nearby island. He found out from his aunts. (1:27:16) • One day an Army chief came into the base with two grubby soldiers. The men entered the officer tent, and came out shortly after. The two soldiers then removed their helmets, and one of the men was his brother Dale. (1:27:56) • Dale had used the truck ID numbers to find him. Dale had come to the area to visit some wounded men as well. (1:28:55) • Kenneth visited his brother frequently, but had to take a gun with him every time he left the base (1:29:17) • During every battle he was given a gun, which he had to return at the end. (1:29:37) • Did not have any kamikaze scares with during his various voyages. (1:29:52) • He did not directly interact with the Japanese. He was only involved with the Japanese during the frequent air raids. (1:29:55) • The Navy frequently played movies at night in an outdoor theater. He quit one of the movies early because of an air raid, but other men stayed at the movie. (1:30:20) Reunion • The reunion was a wonderful experience for him. (1:30:44) • He flew in on a plane from Osaka, Japan. (1:31:07) • Got off the plane at the Naha airport, which was the capital of Okinawa. (1:31:07) • There were forty to fifty people waiting for them, they all clapped. They were glad to see the Americans return. (1:31:33) • Each night of the reunion had a special ceremony, with different services. Five wreaths were thrown in the water for the dead. (1:31:49) • A memorial hospital in the area was named after a sailor who had been awarded a �• • • • • • • • • • • medal of honor. The sailor was at the reunion. (1:32:12) Went jogging in Osaka. They stayed at a fancy hotel. The flight was going to leave at 11:00. He was jogging with an eighty-five year old, and he was seventy at the time. The man was his room-mate at the hotel, and had been a shipmate during WWII. (1:32:54) He went down a long street, and intended doing a loop around a traffic island. Instead he got lost, and all the street signs were in Japanese. (1:34:01) Came across a taxi, asked for directions. Had to ask for directions multiple times. Eventually he came across a woman who gave him elaborate directions in perfect English (1:34:44) He had left around 6:00 AM, the hotel had a checkout time of 7:00 AM. He got back to the hotel, and his room mate had put his bags outside the room (1:34:54) His roommate’s grandson was in the Marines. He had a broken ankle and had accompanied them on the reunion. (1:35:45) The Commander of the Navy was at the Reunion, and introduced to the grandson. (1:36:10) The Okinawans had a special ceremony for the dead (from the earlier mentioned battle). They listed off the names of each person killed, it took three days and two nights. (1:36:24) They had built a remembrance garden full of trees and pillars. Each pillar was inscribed with the names of the dead. (1:36:50) At the ceremony, Americans and Japanese planted trees together in the garden. (1:37:10) His brother died in 1985, he missed him at the ceremony. (1:37:25) He was in Okinawa for a week. Post-War life • Spent twenty-two years in the Reserves. (1:37:40) • Trained men for Vietnam and Korea. (1:38:48) • Enlisted 1947, began taking a commission in 1949. (1:37:54) • Retired from the Reserves in 1969. (1:38:06) • Trained men in Muskegon, Flint, and Lansing for a short time. (1:38:09) • Was the President of Kelly Sales and Engineering Co. He went to college at MSU. (1:38:30) • Started the business in 19693, operated until 2002. (1:39:00) • Sons joined in the business. (1:39:11) • The business closed in 2002. He retired from the business in 1990, but he still works as an engineer. (1:39:22) Opinions on the War in Iraq • He doesn't think the draft would be appropriate for the war in Iraq, as there are sufficient numbers of volunteers. (1:39:53) • His grandson is in the Army, and will be leaving for his second tour soon. (1:40:07) • Is of the opinion that enlisted men and women accept their job and duty. (1:40:15) • Believes they are welcomed by the Iraqis, especially the youth. (1:40:31) • A unit of Sea Bees is deployed in Iraq, re-building infrastructure and improving existing infrastructure. (1:40:37) More post-War • After the war he was still very young. Discharge was based on a points system, and he had few points due to his age. (1:41:22) • He came home for thirty days near Thanksgiving. He went to a Navy field and �• • • • • • • • • • became military policeman afterwards. (1:41:53) He rode trains from Chicago to Buffalo and back in order to track men. (1:42:16) Had a lot of free times while he was an MP. (1:42:32) Spend most of his free time looking for girls, as did most of his friends. One of his friends had a fake ID he used to buy liquor, and was caught. And jailed for seven days (1:42:48) When they were looking for girls, they weren't really looking for sex, just dance partners and a good time. (1:43:21) He went to a roller-skating rink, and was told the Aragon ball-room in Northwest Chicago would be a good place for girls. (1:43:28) Went to the place, a band was playing. It was a nice place. (1:43:46) It was a special party at the ball-room, so there were no girls without escorts. He complained to the girl running the candy corner, and she gave him the phone number of two of her girlfriends. (1:44:04) He talked to the girls, and they both showed up. He got to pick which one he danced with because he'd made the phone call. He picked Ruth, and married her that September, which was eight months later. She was from Winfield, IL. (1:44:44) He has three sons, seven grandchildren, and five great grandchildren. (1:45:16) Three of his brothers were in the service. Two of his brothers married women who were in the service. His second eldest brother married a woman who had been in the Women’s Army Corps, and his eldest married an Army nurse. (1:45:32) • Ruth had three older brothers in the military. His two sisters married Army men. (1:46:37) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KeithE Title A name given to the resource Keith III, Elvin W. (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keith, Elvin W. Description An account of the resource Elvin W. Keith III was born on April 14, 1933. He went to Westchester State Teachers College and then joined the Marines. He started out in the platoon leader's class and then was promoted from a Field Commander to the Company Commander. Elvin was stationed in Vietnam and was assigned to the Motor Transport Battalion of the Third Marine Division. After Vietnam he was stationed at Camp Lajune, North Carolina where he trained to become a Regimental Motor Transport Officer. After his time in the service, Elvin began working for the FBI in Texas and he now teaches classes in Michigan at Baker College. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ericksen, Wallace J. (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Marine Corps Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-11-24 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7ca00e33edd83093bc38728cb01d6d7f.mp4 e478d1c77c6e815a5eff4bca08c56448 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f23c838d7d2de7c6297d979201f4a0ae.pdf a1962c92a9c3a3a1616293cb5957e137 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Richard Keberle (28:44) (00:04) Background Information • When Richard was younger he broke a lot of his toys • His family did not have much money during the Depression • He was born in Cleveland, Ohio in November of 1931 • His father was a maintenance supervisor • His mother worked for a short time during World War Two • He went to school at West Technical high school (3:50) Activities at School • Richard often played marbles with his friends • He did not get involved in any sports, but did enjoy lifting weights • He was interested in airplanes while he was in high school but was not sure if he would be going to college or joining the service (7:20) Pearl Harbor • Richard was only about ten years old when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor • Many people did not even know where the base was even located • He graduated from high school in 1950 (8:30) The Korean War • Richard joined the National Guard after high school • Many people became part of the Air Force after it was renamed after the Air National Guard • They were phasing out the P-51s and bringing in new jets • Richard started out as a mechanic and then went on to do clerical work • They changed the Air Corps to the Air Force around 1951 and everyone was issued new uniforms (13:00) The National Guard • Richard joined the National Guard in eleventh grade and just trained on weekends • He worked as a civilian employee in the Air National Guard in Michigan after high school • He eventually became aid to a General who had been an Ace in World War Two • The General made him Master Sergeant (18:40) Life After the Air Force • It was tough to make any money for a living for a long time • He tried owning a gas station, a car-sales company, and eventually ended up doing well in the restaurant business • He also worked as a salesman for Sysco Foods after he sold his restaurant � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KeberleR Title A name given to the resource Keberle, Richard (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keberle, Richard Description An account of the resource Richard Keberle was born in Ohio during the beginning of the Depression. His family did not have very much money and he joined the National Guard in eleventh grade. After graduating from high school, Richard spent more of his time in the Air National Guard, which eventually became part of the Air Force, serving between 1949 and 1954. Richard remembers the changes that took place while the Air Force was being created. Keberle served as a clerk and did not fight in the Korean War. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Veterans Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-05-15 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ba99682e0486d836f1923e1fe9917eed.pdf 6ec6459ff2027337039390da15079f9a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of Interviewee: Ernie Kaufman Name of War: Other veterans & civilians Length of Interview: (00:33:05) Background  Comments on the differences from his childhood to the present o “We weren’t at horse and buggies, we had cars, but not much else has changed since then.” (00:37)  used to live in a house on Lincoln Lake Rd. were he farmed a farm (01:22)  Describes a story about a group of Indians that came down and set up camp near where his family had their farm o Were just stories, he never witnessed them (02:02)  Lives on Clyde River Dr. o Dug out an Indian Burial ground while putting in a sewer system 10 years prior (02:25)  Comments on the schools o Had lots of smaller schools in his day, not one big one o Teachers seemed a lot more strict as well, “but times change” (03:27) Enlistment  Drafted in the 11th grade o He wanted to go serve anyway, After the attack on Pearl Harbor (04:20)  He didn’t think too much about Pearl Harbor after it had happened (04:50)  November of 1945 went for his physical, didn’t think he would have been drafted o He was drafted by the beginning of April (05:33) Training  Went to boot camp in Texas (06:02)  Not angry at being drafted, he was doing his duty (06:12)  It was his chance to get out and see the world (06:28)  Was at boot camp for a few weeks (06:45)  At one point he couldn’t remember his serial number and was sent to KP for a few days  Regular routine training at the boot camp, marching etc. (07:40) Deployment  Shipped out of Amarilla by train to Biloxi Mississippi to a radar school (08:00)  Volunteered to go to a certain place o Went to the South Pacific (08:14)  Didn’t want to go to Europe, he wanted to see the world (08:32)  Went to Camp Stone (**) in San Francisco  There for a week (08:50)  Put on a troop ship to Hawaii o Unloaded 2/3 of the cargo there (09:00) �  The ship held a lot of cargo, and it took them seven days to unload what they needed to get off (09:17) Went to Wake Island o Not there for very long at all, maybe a day (09:30) Guam  Went to Guam o Got sea sickness on the ride over a lot (09:40)  Hit a typhoon on the way to Guam (10:00)  Got to Guam, put in trucks and went to North West Field (?) (10:37)  Everything was torn t pieces when they arrived, Sea Bees were sent in to build barracks and get generators up (11:00)  “Guam was not a country, just a big rock with jungle all over it” (11:49)  Set up places for soldiers to stay when it rained, not there to help rebuild the towns and villages (12:04)  It rained almost once every day (12:17)  Stayed away from locals (12:33)  They were told not to talk to the locals (12:45)  Stayed in North West field for around two months (13:01)  Sent to the North air and sea rescue base o Had 17 good boats (13:13)  North West field was converted into a B29 base (13:31)  Hot, sticky weather, always wet (13:41)  Locals not hostile  No place to go on the island so they really couldn’t  There were a lot of bases on the island, with little huts dispersed throughout (14:09)  The Locals would go through the bases trash all the time (14:57)  Working on a runway that had a drop off near the end of it, he saw a man jump off the side (15:33)  Was in Guam for about a year (16:05) Sapien  Went to Sapien on a plane  Flew in turned around and flew back out, doesn’t know why (16:17)  His job on the plane was to check the landing gear (17:05)  Everything he did he had volunteered to do (17:25)  Was with the Air and Sea Rescue Headquarters message squadron  He liked it because he knew what was going on before anyone else did (17:30)  A typical day went as follows: Got up around 5 a.m., went to chow, went to their job, left around 1 p.m. for chow, then went to an assigned job around the base (18:08)  They were assigned different jobs in the afternoons (19:01)  Didn’t so much rescuing, everything was going smoothly (19:39)  He saw them do drops o The drops had enough food for 10 men for 30 days (20:06) �      Stayed with the message center for most of his stay in Guam (20:36) He got into trouble with his officials a lot (21:36) Glad he wasn’t in Guam for the actual fighting during the war (22:39) The Japanese were well fortified (22:41) They went out into the jungle when they were bored (23:00) They built all their own runways and barracks, because there wasn’t anything there before (23:57)  Explains the leper colony o No one on the base caught leprosy (25:11)  Dark-skinned people were in the colony o Explains how people get dark skin (26:00)  People in colony came from the islands (26:40) Discharge/ Life After the War  Got out of the Service in 1948 (27:00)  Put into Camp Stoneman prior to discharge and was placed on guard duty, picked up garbage (27:44)  Explained the brig and how it worked (30:37)  He was stationed here on guard duty for a month (31:03)  He couldn’t be discharged until his physical and dental work came back, and they were really sow about the dental work (31:20)  Went back to Grand Rapids area after he was discharged (31:44)  Worked for “Generous Motors,” [General Motors] (31:54)  Life back in Michigan was nice until his first winter, he liked the warm weather in the South Pacific (32:00)  Glad he got home (32:36) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KaufmanE Title A name given to the resource Kaufman, Ernie (Interview outline), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kaufman, Earnest W. Description An account of the resource Ernie Kaufman grew up in Lowell, Michigan, and was drafted into the army in 1946. He trained in Texas and Mississippi, and was then shipped to Guam. He did construction work on bases there, and then transferred to Air/Sea Rescue, where he worked in the message headquarters section. He was discharged in 1948. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Lowell Area Historical Museum (Lowell, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-06-26 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ef7a68847f23f55905e3428bed36a34d.mp4 c18ee040821f7774a7c7be2d33b6bf72 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/085400fb4589b370ea5f95639e53a602.pdf 92d9fde3e3c0e31071bb29bd16410b0a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Donald Katt (01:01:33) (00:20) Background Information • • • • • • • • • Donald was born in Ferrysberg, Michigan on November 28, 1925 His parents and grandparents had lived in the small town for all their lives He had 8 brothers and sisters and his dad died in 1931 when he was only 5 years old Life was pretty hard during the depression, but they always had enough to eat because his mother received lots of help from other family members His father had previously owned a grocery store, but it burned down months after his death Donald went to Grand Haven Christian School and then Grand Haven High School, graduating in 1943 He never attempted to get into college because he assumed that he would be drafted into the service Many people that he went to school had been enlisting and he received his draft card in 1943 after graduation No one wanted to skip the draft because they were all anxious to fight the Germans and Japanese (3:30) Basic Training • Donald trained in Florida for 17 weeks • He then went to Alabama for advanced training • In October of 1944 he went to New York for his shipment overseas • They traveled in a convoy and the trip lasted 13 days (4:20) England • They arrived in England on November 28, 1944 and stayed there for one month • They took a ship called the Cheshire across the channel, heading for the Battle of the Bulge • They arrived in France and their duty was to contain 50,000 Germans in one area; there was a lot of artillery fighting and he often went on night patrols • The men slept in fox holes and it was very cold during the winter months • Donald and his men fought with about 40,000 French troops • He was in Europe for about 9 months and earned a combat infantry badge • The whole time he was there he kept a diary, which he was not supposed to do in case it fell into the wrong hands • His division still meets for reunions every 2 years (11:30) Pearl Harbor • When Pearl Harbor was attacked, Donald was only 16 years old and a sophomore in high school �• • • • The attack was a big shock to everyone; no one thought that they would be attacked by the Japanese Afterwards, many young men wanted to join the military He remembers when many goods and food products were beginning to be rationed, such as wheat, oil, and tin; gas was the hardest to cut back on Donald had two brothers in the Army, with one in New Guinea and the other in Singapore (16:00) Donald is Called to Active Duty • Donald went to Chicago to the Great Lakes base for testing, but found out that men were only needed in the infantry at the time • Donald had very strict training in Florida and was often on KP • He went through weapons training with an M-1 and eventually got a sharp-shooter medal • They went on 25-mile hikes at 10 pm that lasted until 6 am • They also had to be able to run for 45 miles • Donald had gained 15 pounds of muscle in his 17 weeks of training (21:25) Training in Alabama • This was more bivouacking work • They would go about 30 miles into the bush and work with machine guns • The training was much more intense, heavy military training • Donald trained altogether from February until October in 1944 (23:10) The Trip Overseas • She ship carried 8,000 men and was called the USS George Washington; it was a converted cruise ship • The living quarters were very tight • The whole time they had to zigzag to avoid German submarines • Donald was often on guard duty while on the trip • They traveled with a 13 ship convoy, but none of the ships were as big as the one that Donald traveled on • There were about 12,000 people altogether traveling in the convoy • The trip took place in November and there were many storms that made lots of people sick (27:15) Southampton • They convoy arrived in England on November 28, but the supply ship had fallen behind and they did not have much food for quite a few days • They left on Christmas Eve towards France on the Cheshire ship and the other ship, the Leopold, hand been sunk along the way • They traveled in box cars to an airfield in France (31:35) French Troops • They had been working with about 40,000 French troops and it had been hard to communicate �• • • The American men bartered with French civilians, trading US soap and cigarettes for French food The Americans got along well with the French troops The French did not have as many weapons as the Americans and they were not uniform (35:40) The Army of Occupation • Donald lived in a nice area near a river in Germany, where they just had to watch over Germans during the occupation • Donald was there for four months and then he went to a “tent city” in Marseilles to wait for Americans to be sent to fight in the Pacific • He then went to Austria for 8 months to once again serve in the Army of Occupation • He had time off to learn to ski, traveling to Switzerland • They had often been guarding a railroad station from attacks and got to know many Austrians • Donald was discharged on June 6 • While in Europe he wrote to his mom, friends, and girlfriend about three times a week each (44:30) Life After the Service • Donald took some classes in office management and learned a lot about accounting • He got a job in a small shop with only about 15 other employees • He then started a business with a friend, but they ended up not getting along and Donald sold his share • He then took classes at Davenport College in Grand Rapids, MI • He received his Associates degree in office management • Donald was working with concrete products in Ferrysberg and Muskegon • He became the township treasurer in 1955 and held the position for 38 years, retiring in 1992 (49:20) 50th Reunion Tour • Donald traveled with his wife and division to Amsterdam, Nicoise, Marseille, and Paris • They attended a ceremony near the Eiffel Tower • They went to many nice restaurants, ate great food, and drank lots of wine • The tour lasted 2 weeks and the French Navy took them out on their ships • They visited towns where previous battles had been fought and were awarded new medals � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KattD Title A name given to the resource Katt, Donald G. (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Katt, Donald G. Description An account of the resource Donald Katt served with the 66th Infantry Division during WW II. He was drafted in 1943, trained mostly in Alabama, and went to Europe late in 1944. He served in France and Germany. Most of his comments are on training, working with French troops, and serving on occupation duty in Germany. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McCauslin, Kelly (Interviewer) Spring Lake District Library (Spring Lake, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-01-08 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/512bcfdb21c67d8fd8810c0d1c8c6323.mp4 551c462bad506db3d1c3e199cb2664b7 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f3772e98ceb369a536a81201c3a4ebcf.pdf 6d64bd252e14aba12a861fcc4c5234d2 PDF Text Text August Katsma (1:00:45) (00:01) Background Information • August was born on November 11, 1917 in Grand Rapids, Michigan • His father worked in the furniture business • He left school in 1934 to work • August worked in a plating room, in construction, and at a metal office furniture manufacturer • In 1937 he joined the National Guard and was put into the 126th infantry • He played for the band in the National Guard • In the 126th infantry he was assigned to be a medic • He got married and then he was drafted after Pearl Harbor was attacked • August was working when he heard about Pearl Harbor being attacked and was concerned about what was going on overseas before the attack • On April 22, 1941 he was drafted (11:12) Training • He was sent to Fort Custer and then to Fort Riley in Kansas for Military Police training • August was taught how to do police work for about three months • He had basic training at the same time as his MP training • Next he was sent to Fort Meyer, Virginia where the officers were very strict • They had to put on full gear and march for 40 miles • His job was to do guard duty and he remained there until late 1941 • He was then sent to Boeing Field and put on the plotting board • August was part of the coastal artillery unit as a private • He was sent to a special service camp in North Carolina to be in their band and orchestra • They put on shows for the servicemen and raised money for the war �• He was also in charge of the recreation hall • August was reassigned to Camp Sibert, Alabama to Grey’s Registration Unit (28:52) Deployment • On his way to the Philippines they stopped at Pearl Harbor and August had one day leave to go on the island • After they left for Manila, the end of the war was announced • August worked in the morgue and had to document the dead • There were thousands of dead people that could not be identified • They left Manila on February 6, 1946 (36:35) Before Leaving for the Philippines • August was sent to Camp Buckner, North Carolina • He played big band music for the officers until very late at night with no extra pay • Most of the officers did not treat him well while he was in the service • August received 20 days leave when his wife was giving birth • He went into Washington DC twice; • once on leave and once during a storm because he had to direct traffic (45:06) Discharge • From Manila August went back to Hawaii on a steamer and then to San Diego • They took a train to Fort Sheridan and the whole time the Army didn’t want anyone to see the soldiers for a unknown reason • When they got to Fort Sheridan the Army tried to get them to re-enlist, but August was not interested • After his discharge he got on a bus and went home • He worked at GM and then went into trucking • August worked at Associated Trucking for 27.5 years • He lost respect for the Army because of the way he was treated � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KatsmaA Title A name given to the resource Katsma, August (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Katsma, August Description An account of the resource August Katsma was born on November 11, 1917 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. In 1937 he joined the National Guard as a medic in the 126th infantry. After the National Guard he got married and then was drafted into the Army. August trained as an MP and was in the Army's band. He was sent to North Carolina to a special service camp as a band member to raise money and play for the servicemen. Next he was sent to Camp Sibert, Alabama to Grey's Registration Unit and then Deployed to Manila in the Philippines. In Manila he worked at the morgue where he documented casualties of the war. August was sent back to the United states in February, 1946 and discharged. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-01-22 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b2779b2581d3e16c8cb95feb8e962f56.mp4 2eccd7fd2151ccb6e355f57fea74a68b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0a0b6eb0dc2ae8d5bb6ee7d916a943ab.pdf ed1dd17d86d116398872f25ae509733d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Iraq Interviewee: Joshua Karr Length of Interview: 01:02:30 Background                  He was born in 1979 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. His family grew up in Wyoming, but by the time he was born they lived in Marne, where he grew up. His dad is a Master Electrician. His mom worked at the Post Office. He started high school at Kenowa, but his parents decided to home school him for the last three years of his high school. He finished school in 1998. After school, he went out and got himself a couple jobs. He was a cook at 2 or 3 different restaurants in the following 3 or 4 years. When the 9/11 attacks happened he was actually sleeping. He had an apartment with his brother, who had woken him up to watch the T.V. At first he didn’t know why he got up to see a plane hit a building, but then he saw the second one get hit. And then someone hit the pentagon, and he knew it was war. He would speak to his recruiter 2 months later and months after that he was in boot camp. He had considered joining the military before. When he was 18, he spoke to a recruiter, but decided that it wasn’t for him at the time. He had checked in with the Navy when he was 18 because they had sent him some junk mail saying that his test scores had qualified him for the nuclear program. When he did decide to sign up for the military, he just decided it was his turn to go to war. He figured that every generation has to serve and it was his turn. His dad was the only man from his immediate family who did not go into the military. He was going to but his wife said that he couldn’t because he had kids. Two of his brothers were Navy; one of them was a lifer. He had another brother who was a Marine. After he decided to join, he had to go through some pre-screening at the recruiter’s office. They checked for height and weight requirements, criminal record and other basic things. There would be further criminal screening and ongoing physical tests after that. He would go to boot camp at Great Lakes, in Chicago. Great Lakes (4:30)    When he got there, it was the only Navy basic training camp left. They wanted to centralize because they felt too spread out having three different locations. There were about 10 groups of 80 men each who would be graduating every Friday. The training that he got was 8-10 weeks long. �                        The men in his group were from all over the country, a couple from a different part of the world. They were mostly between 18 and 20. One guy was 17½ because his parents signed a release to get him in early. He doesn’t think there was anyone in his division who was older than he was. They were close enough in age that they didn’t feel so different from each other. The basic training program didn’t allow anyone to feel differently from one another either. During his training he would have some classroom time, but it was difficult to stay awake during that because they also had a sleep deprivation program as well. No one would sleep more than 3 hours on any given night all through basic training. There was a lot of physical training. He remembers a lot of marching, but they didn’t run. He said that they were made to run everywhere in summer, but he was there in winter. Some of the guys who were below average had to run everywhere anyway. Because of the training style, he would still have to run every day in boot camp. The main emphasis of the camp was discipline and order. They wanted the men there to learn the nautical terms, learn how to wear uniforms, etc. but the main thing they had to learn was to shut up and follow orders. Adjusting to the lifestyle varied among the men of his group. Some of them would never figure it out. They actually have a reverse training transfer to keep you in boot camp indefinitely. One guy was there for 9 months and petitioned to get a promotion. You were supposed to be promoted to E2 after 9 months. Some guys there lived for it and it was much easier for them. One of the drill instructors he had who was kind of scary. He would not speak until it was time to discipline someone. Another one threw a lot of tantrums and was more lively than frightening. There was one who was just like one of the guys. He figured that was just the way things worked out, to have different kinds of drill instructors. In retrospect, he thinks it may have been that way on purpose to keep things balanced. Once he is done with boot camp, he went to Machinist School, which was also in Great Lakes. (8:34) He had to wait 3 days to have the bus take them basically across the street. This training was more academic. There was probably 15-20 guys to a class. It was the basics of mechanical works, including what things were called to how they worked. He would get a little bit of everything from electrical to plumbing. All the instructors were military Machinist Mates, except for one of his classes was an engineer. All of them were NCO’s mostly E6’s, a couple were E5’s. There were different phases of liberty. The one he was in allowed him to roam freely, but he had to be in his uniform if he was coming or going from base. There was not much to do around there, mostly he and his friends would take the train up and down the Lake Michigan coast and hit different cities along the way. Kenosha was probably where they spent the most time. �  After this portion of his training was done, he got 2 weeks of home leave to go see his family before shipping out. He would go to San Diego, where he served aboard the USS Constellation for about a year. Active Duty (11:45) The Pacific                 The “Conny” was a huge aircraft carrier, about three football fields long on top. It was tall, about 8 decks and 11 levels. It took about 3,000 men to actually run the boat and another 2-3,000 to man the aircraft on there. The enlisted men slept in rooms filled with racks. He measured his once, it was 1½ x 2 x 6 feet long. 18 cubic feet was pretty standard for each person. If you were taller than that your feet get crunched up and you don’t sleep as well as some of the smaller guys. There were two main mess decks for food. You basically stood in line until you got your food. Standing in line was probably one of the most important parts of his training, at least he thinks. He had never actually seen the ocean before he joined the Navy. When they had first gone out to sea, he had expected there to be some sort of sea sickness but there wasn’t. The carrier was just too big to be unbalanced. He could feel them go under way, but there was no rocking of any sort. He was in the fire room side of the main space, which made him a boiler operator. Since he was brand new, he was a messenger. He went around and took readings of the equipment and reported them to the guy who was actually supposed to take the readings so he could sign the log. He would run to whatever shop he needed to visit because that’s what messengers did. He did that for about 7 months. There was always something new happening, so it was never too boring. They had really pushed for different hours of guard time. At first it was 6 hours of guard time and 6 hours of down time. Most of them spent their down time sleeping because it was so hot. Eventually they got down to 4 and 8 and he managed to qualify for an upper level man. This job was a lot more interesting than his last one because he got to control the valves that controlled the boiler feed water. The boiler was a 1200 PI Foster boiler, which burned diesel fuel. The keel was laid in 1968 and the boilers were original equipment. It took a lot to keep them maintained. Almost every time they shut it down there was something they had to fix. The control systems were newer. The original watch team would have needed 50 men to operate it. They were down to about 12 men. So having about 5,000 men on the ship was more efficient than they were before. This allowed for more airplanes to be on the ship. �                       When he was based in San Diego, they were never in port there for more than a couple of weeks. They were getting ready to deploy so they were out at sea a lot testing equipment. Most of the little trials they did lasted anywhere from 1-3 weeks, but some of them went longer. At some point, they did circles around Hawaii. They would also go through the China Sea. They would stop by Hong Kong and Singapore. They would also go into the Persian Gulf. But when they got him to the base, he had to go home. So when they got to the base, they got him on a plane and finished going around the world from there back to Grand Rapids. He would fly back from Grand Rapids and got back on the ship when the war was officially declared in Iraq. They all knew it was time for the war and the only reason that they watched the news was to find out if they had declared war yet. While they were headed across the Pacific and into the Gulf, they mostly worked and slept. There were a lot of jokes going on to try and keep the place lively. Mostly they just worked and slept. When they flew him out they used both military and civilian airplanes. He was not in uniform because they were so close to war. Once they found out the war was official, everyone was very happy. They had kept the boat going, but it was pointless. All they did was drive it around in circles. Now, they had what they finally signed up to do. (22:10) Watching the news didn’t really help anyway, because they did not know what was really going on. They didn’t see the things that he saw. One time he saw a goat floating in the water, dead and bloated. Mostly though, he saw valves and gauges. There were ships all over when they got to the Arabian Sea. He saw ships from Canada, Australia, Britain, and many more from all over. They did manage to get into port at Bahrein and when they got there, they were told that there was a curse that if you did not go and see the tree of life, which was a tree growing out in the desert, that you were doomed to go back 7 times. He’s been there 6 times and has never seen the tree. He spent about 4 months in that tour in the Gulf. From there they would go to Australia. By the time they had arrived there, they would be the third aircraft carrier to dock. They would land in Perth. The Australian people were happy that the soldiers were there to help boost their economy, but they were kind of sick of soldiers by the time that his ship arrived there. During his time at sea, he would get a chance to go on land and visit at the places his ship stopped. As a junior enlisted, his liberty time was around 8 or 9 when the sun when down before he had to be back aboard the ship. In the friendlier countries, he was allowed to stay out all night. So when he got to Australia, he got off the ship and got a hotel room. He slept for about 18 hours because there was nothing there to wake him up. �         In Hong Kong, the civilians did not really notice them. He and his buddy got lost and tried to get directions from this older white man, but he didn’t understand them. His buddy would also lose his ATM card while in Hong Kong as well. He put it in an ATM machine and he didn’t know if it was because you were supposed to put the numbers in a different order or what, but they heard the shredder going in the machine and he lost his card. They finally found an office building and walked in. He felt like he had asked it 100 times, “Does anybody here speak English?” and this little guy popped up and was very excited, saying that he spoke English. He was very happy to help them out. After they left Australia, they reported into Hawaii, Pear Harbor, and stayed there for a couple of days. It was fun. He remembers a couple of older guys talking about the exchange rate there, but he didn’t believe them. Turns out you did have to exchange. It was very expensive as almost everything was twice as much as the dollar bills that they had. From there they went back to San Diego. They would decommission the Constellation when they got back. The crew would spend a lot of time gutting the ship and trying to put it back in its original condition. They were not going to scrap it, but they were basically mothballing it. This would take a couple of months. He stayed on the ship as long as he would let him. He did not want to stay in a barracks. The Atlantic (29:00)           When they were done with the ship, they could decide what they wanted to do next. While he was on the phone with his detailer, someone told him to go to Air Conditioning and Refrigeration School. So he did. And from there he would head to the east coast. He would go to Air Conditioning and Refrigeration School, around the Norfolk area for about 10 weeks. That was mostly classroom education with a little bit of laboratory. They knew that there was no point in really giving them a lot of hands-on experience because he would either be put on a new boat, which wouldn’t really need maintenance, or he would be put on an older one, where he would learn on the job. When he was in Port, it was mostly like a 9-5 job, but it was 6-4, so he got a lot of time off. The people there didn’t have a lot of opinion on the military as they were so used to it being right there in town. It wasn’t like a small town where there was a lot of support for soldiers, but they did not hate them either. He would be assigned to the USS Enterprise. It would be around the same time as the Constellation, so a bit older. This ship would be nuclear powered. He had to operate and maintain huge air conditioning units on the ship. One of them weighed 300 tons! He would also have to maintain refrigeration units as well, weighing about 5 tons. He would also have to maintain all of the peripheral units as well, like the ice makers and the water pipes. �                     It was a lot of work keeping them maintained because it was all old equipment. They had plenty of men to keep things running. There was more work sometimes more than others, but they had a pretty good maintenance system. However, some things just can’t be prevented. The nastiest job he had as a repairman was when he had to climb into the mud drum on the Constellation. It was gross. On both of the ships he had to work in the bilge. There are a lot of leaks and it is really gross down there. His work ranges from repairing pipes to replacing motors, to getting them repainted. When he finished the schooling, he would have to fly out to meet the Enterprise, which had already gone out to sea. After landing near a port, they took a private ex-military ship out to the Enterprise. When they got close enough they took a Puma to the carrier. When they got there, there was an induct orientation. They had a two-week course that went over everything. They covered racial sensitivity to where places are located on the ship. About 10% of the crew was female and they had all the same jobs as the men did. The atmosphere on the ship was uniform based. It didn’t matter your color or your gender, it depended on what uniform you wore. (39:30) Khaki enlisted are E7-E9, there are kind of elite and a group all of their own. Their job is mostly paperwork and office work. They didn’t really do anything anymore. To get to E7 was around 15 years, so many of these are career people. Most of them stayed in about 30 years. When there was time off you could go to the movie. He went to a bar in downtown Norfolk. When you are at sea, there was closed circuit T.V. on board. Sometimes, Hollywood stars would come on their ships and promote their movies. They would get to watch them before anybody else. Ben Affleck came out with his movie Paycheck. The movie was awful. Drew Carey came out once, some baseball player as well. Sometimes they would get time to use the email or the phone. The phone was almost impossible to get through, but the emailing was a little more convenient. There times when they shut down the computers so no one could use them. When they turn them back on, there was usually a line of people waiting to use them. He likes the snail mail, aka the postal service mail. Part of it was because his mom worked for the post office. Another thing was because it would almost a guarantee that you would get something. There would be times when some would accidentally get knocked overboard and your care packages were not always in good condition. He wrote home a lot. When he say something was really neat to him he would write home. He doesn’t know about mail, but all electronic communication is subject to monitoring and termination if necessary. When he was on the Enterprise they went to the Persian Gulf. There was a port there near Dubai where they would get off and look around. They called it “the sandbox”. It �                  was just a piece of land the military bought or borrowed or something and built a huge wall around it. Sometimes if it was safe enough they could take a cab out to Dubai. He was over there on the Enterprise from 2004-2006. They would travel to a couple of different places in that time. They once went to England and it happened to be the 4th of July. That was a really bad idea. There were a lot of fights and they ran out of handcuffs so a security officer had to come back and grab a bunch of zip-ties. A lot of the fights started in pubs and the Americans would celebrate and the British would not really care about it. When they got back under way he did get to talk to some of the guys who were in the fights. The fights were mostly American Pride vs. the British Pride. He would also go through the Suez Canal, but he didn’t go topside. Instead he had to watch a machine that wasn’t running. He thought it was really stupid. But some of the guys who were topside said if they had rock they could throw to one side and hit Africa and throw to the other side to hit Europe. Egypt had a bunch of tanks parked up on the ridge there in case any of the passing ships started something. (50:00) He remembers when they went to Seattle. It took about 3 weeks to get there, mostly because Navy ships don’t travel in straight lines. But he remembers pulling into the port and he smelled the pine trees and he just wanted off the ship. He wanted trees instead of people. You get tired of people eventually when on a ship. He would mostly hang out with the guys he worked with. When he was in Norfolk he kept to himself. When his time was up, he considered staying on, but he really didn’t want it. Advancement exams were part of it. He would advance quickly at first, but eventually he got passed over for E5 promotion. So when it was time for him to get out they tempted him with E5 promotion, but he felt they had missed their chance for that. He felt that he served his time. He had no idea what he wanted to do when he got back. He had GI bill eligibility and he thought he would go to school eventually, but what he really wanted was to relax and get some “any Joe” job, which he did. He would work at a liquor store for a while. He loved it, but he didn’t know why. January of 2006 was when he went out. Post Duty (54:55)    When he got out, he was actually home, on terminal leave. He kind of had mixed feelings about that because he was still in, but he wasn’t. It was just weird. He would go to college as Grand Rapids Community College. With an Associates Degree, he thought he would have a higher paid job. �           He thought the experience he got on the ship would help him get a job, but that didn’t help either. When he met with the heating and cooling guys, they didn’t want to retrain him from what he saw on the ship to what he would see in homes. From his experience in the Navy, he would always remember going around the world twice. Even before he learned to drive. He also got to serve his country in a time of need. He also feels that he has some pretty awesome bragging rights for where he’s been and what he’s done. One time, he looked up the word veteran in the dictionary, just to see what it said, and it is synonymous with the word “old”. So he feels old. He thinks everyone should do it. In fact, if everyone did join, then they could probably shorten the enlistment time from 4 years to 2 years. Mostly though, he thinks that if everyone served, this country would be a bit stronger. When they were on the Enterprise, they found videos on the ship. They don’t know who made them or when, but they watched them. One was about a man who found a bra on the ship and took it to the incinerator room and burned it. He thought it was a pretty funny movie. He would see some of the natives in Bahrein were burning the US flag. It was a little unsettling. There was also a time where he heard a man shouting a prayer and they didn’t know what to do. It was strange. Before he got off at any of the places, he had to learn about some of the things that you did or did not do when at that specific city. For example, giving an Arab the “thumbs up” is like giving us the middle finger. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KarrJ Title A name given to the resource Karr, Joshua (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Karr, Joshua Description An account of the resource Joshua Karr served in the US Navy from 2002-2006, during the war with Iraq. The first half of his enlistment would be spent in the Pacific on the USS Constellation, which was sent to the Persian Gulf when the Iraq War started. He worked primarily in the engine room. When the Constellation was decommissioned, he transferred to the Enterprise, which was based at Norfolk and cruised in the Atlantic. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-01-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bfd1bbc46c7ae8634ec2279f9aefbbb3.mp4 95ae53ba598f219cfa2cb0f1aee6a371 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/22c6bd8a9e07a74fa519becd67ade019.pdf 20279d331adf7ed449d36c8918ea2068 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Iraq War John Kangas Interview Total Time: 1:13:07 Background  (00:17) Raised in Cedar Springs, MI o Born in 1981  (00:30) His mom stays at home, and dad works at GM  (00:38) Graduated in 2000 o Became a father shortly after graduating o Worked, and got laid off o Was unemployed when 9/11 happened o Lived with his parents at the time, saw it happen on the news  (1:41) Says that enlisting didn’t have much to do with 9/11, the biggest reason was that he was unemployed o Remembers selling coupon books door to door  (2:02) Initially went to the Air Force, but they turned him down because he had a child  (2:18) Went over to the Army  (2:30) Went to recruiting office, took practice test, then to Lansing o Very high pressure situation  (3:15) According to his test, there were jobs that he qualified for, but half of them were filled o Had to pick from 4 choices o He picked radar  (3:40) Mentions that there is a lot of lying that went on in the recruitment process  (4:20) Radar was considered a combat arms job o The guy who told him about the job was a career NCO � (4:44) Mr. Kangas went on a delayed entry program, lasted two weeks Training  (5:12) Went to Ft. Sill, Oklahoma, for training  (5:20) As soon as they got there, 2 AM, went to bed o Remembers reading and writing on the bunk  (5:53) Said the facilities dated to before Vietnam, except for the training sites  (6:20) During the first weeks, his experience depended on knowledge of the military and regulations, said most of them didn’t know much o Didn’t understand why they cleaned the barracks at 3 AM in the dark until he got out and understood the regulations o It was because the drill sergeants didn’t want to get caught  (7:23) A lot of emphasis on physical training o Ran 6-8 miles a day, but they were told they only ran 3 miles o Said he wasn’t in great shape when he got there o Basic training got him into very good shape  (8:15) Basic training lasted 6 weeks  (8:23) People couldn’t “wash out”, but sometimes people were kicked out o Those who were trying to figure out how to get out failed, because there was no way out  (9:22) In his unit, the drill sergeants kept them at the same pace the entire time, even at graduation and afterwards o They found out their drill sergeants weren’t getting down time because of 9/11  (10:10) Drill sergeants kicked everyone out after graduation; Mr. Kangas said this was illegal  (10:30) Went to AIT, got actual job title here o Stayed at Sill  (11:07) About 4 others he trained with in basic who went over to AIT with him  (11:15) This was where he learned about his job and physical training every morning � (11:27) At this level, drill sergeants treated them better  (12:00) In AIT, he learned mobile radar, all on trucks o About 9 weeks o A big part of the training was learning how to set up  (13:08) Talks about fire guard duty o When everyone else is sleeping, someone had to stay up, and they rotated Overseas  (13:46) Got shipped to Germany after training  (14:00) Sent over in October, 2002 to Bamberg  (14:20) “Joined the fold” on arrival, assigned to a unit  (14:28) Assigned to Unit 1/33, 1st Battalion, 33rd Field Artillery  (14:53) When he first showed up, half of his unit was gone because of rotations  (15:30) Said they were training for Kosovo  (15:57) Used radar to specifically identify mortar positions, looking for aircraft, etc.  (16:11) Spent a year in Germany  (16:22) Woke up, worked out, did radar run times o If radar wasn’t run, it would break down o If there wasn’t anything happening, someone would create something for them to do o Talks about putting up tents  (17:02) Got weekends and government holidays off o German holidays would count depending on the sergeant’s opinion o Drank a lot during his time off o Tried to fight for his wife and child to come over to Germany, but it was hard to do  (18:05) Said there was an MWR, had big screen TV, maybe some video games  (18:32) When he first got to Germany, all of the equipment they used was from Vietnam o They had tape decks, other equipment from the 80’s �o He heard that Germany was the last to get newer technology  (20:06) Found out he was going to Iraq 8 months into his first assignment  (20:37) When the Iraq conflict first started, they couldn’t go anywhere at first because the Germans were angry and protesting o Couldn’t go out to drink o Mostly locked down o Watched CNN just as much as civilians  (21:54) Mentions that in Iraq, they stayed in one spot, protecting the bases  (22:27) Mr. Kangas feels that they should have spent more time showing them how to use the radar because that was the main focus o There was some training though  (23:05) Went to Iraq in 2004 during winter o About February  (23:40) First they went to Kuwait, did some training and learned more about what they’d be doing in Iraq  (24:04) They took all of their equipment and convoyed to their destination o 4 day drive through Iraq  (24:17) In the first month, they were at Balad, Anaconda Air Force Base  (24:44) Mr. Kangas said the drive there was “brutal,” no sleep o He was driving, and they picked up hitch hikers  (25:20) Says that if their vehicle looked impervious, the enemies would understand it to be impervious  (26:20) Remembers that IED strikes would back things up and make driving across the country even longer o Convoys delayed by a half an hour, etc o Emphasis put on keeping track of convoys  (27:11) At Balad, there weren’t enough radar units o Needed 6, they only had 4  (28:06) Went to a small base in Iraq that was about 30 miles north of the previous one �o Got mortared every day o It was in the middle of a town, so it was hard to point the radar specifically  (29:05) There were other parts of the 1st infantry division there  (29:22) At that point, they were just defending themselves o Pointed radar and sent infantry over to handle it  (29:50) Stayed there for about 2 months and moved to another base which was between Balad and Fallujah o They lived in an old hanger o Cleaned it up o Easier place to operate than before o Two different types of radars, Mr. Kangas was on the smaller one o The big radar was large enough to jam the radars at Anaconda o At the same time, the enemy was making the same adjustments o “Cat and mouse”  (32:06) Talked about civilian populations o Stayed “hunkered down”  (33:17) Stayed in the 3rd place most of his deployment  (33:54) His total time in Iraq was a year  (34:09) Wasn’t really sure how long he’d be staying o When they got there, their sister unit was replaced by the 1st Cavalry o They went home, got off the plane and back on o They also thought they may not be there a whole year  (35:10) All of the 1st infantry division went at the same time o His battalion was split up because of their job o His group was called a battery, set up just like a field artillery unit  (36:12) 6 guys in his radar unit  (36:36) There were ups and downs in their morale o Going into the war, they were told it would end soon, told to prepare for only being in 6 months �o After they got out, 15 month deployments started happening  (37:16) Says his section was lucky to have no casualties, but a lot of close calls  (37:44) He did see damaging effects of battle; mentions that wounded people from the insurgency came in and out o Talked about scandals, heard screams o Saw casualties, but nobody in his unit got hurt  (38:31) Reaction to getting mortared became 2nd nature because it happened so often o One officer was skittish  (39:17) Said there was nothing else to do but accept the reality of being attacked  (39:38) Used to be random targets  (41:53) After he finished a year, 3 day process to Germany o At the time, they took a military flight right back to Germany as opposed to staying in Kuwait or a couple of weeks  (43:00) Mr. Kangas had 6-8 months left on his enlistment o Spent the rest of his time in Germany  (43:20) He said the Germans weren’t very happy to see them o But their economy depended on them  (44:31) Learned very little German because most of the time he was training o Everyone on the base knew English  (45:01) At the end of his enlistment, they tried to get him to reenlist o Told him he would get recalled o High pressure situation o The impression he got was that they told him he would fail o They offered him a choice of duty station, enlistment bonus, and a guarantee for the next rank o Mr. Kangas felt this wasn’t right  (46:40) He was a specialist E4; corporal  (47:00) When one first enlists, it’s an 8 year commitment o 4 years active, 4 years inactive �o At any point within that time frame, he could get called back  (47:34) Got back to US in October 2005 o Was on unemployment for 6 months o Got to spend time with wife and daughter o Got to travel around the country a bit o Worked at Costco o Eventually worked at a dial-up internet company, then to Comcast o Tech support at Comcast  (48:19) After working at Comcast for about a year, he got a letter with orders o Had to call a number and set up plane tickets  (49:18) Sent to Ft. Benning, Georgia, for two weeks o Didn’t know where he was going after that o Spent the first week in civilian clothes; there was a lot of drinking o In-processing, medical stuff o There were people there who’d been seriously injured and they were trying to push them through o Lots of retirees came back o Also Vietnam vets o He said that older people were trying to get back in with the promise of more money, and the younger people were trying to get out  (51:31) It was supposed to be a refresher in basic training, but Mr. Kangas didn’t feel that it was o AIT training was the same thing; also spent time drinking o Nobody knew what was going on o At Ft. Sill, he knew he would be supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom, but didn’t know the capacity of it o The last two days there, got orders, sent to Ft. Hood, Texas  (52:54) Said that nobody knew who they were at Ft. Hood o At airport for 4 hours �o Medical units who were rotating out picked them up; they didn’t know what to do with them o (53:44) Did nothing for two weeks but watch movies o Was attached to the Wyoming National Guard o Unit was 1st in the 15th Fires Brigade  (54:20) They went through an interview process for a job o Found out they would be driving trucks from Kuwait to Iraq o Had nothing to do what they’d previously done in the military  (55:40) At Ft. Hood, they went through a crash course of what it meant to be in the Army o 4 months of deployment in Ft. Hood o Went back to Iraq  (57:19) Stayed in Kuwait first, like the first time  (57:51) Went back to Iraq on July 4th, 2009 o Same situation as before, except less attacks o Never fired his weapon once during this time o Drove 4-8 hours from Kuwait to Iraq back and forth o 7-8 months of this o (59:17) They drove out at night; there wasn’t really a strict schedule o On a night time schedule  (1:01:05) When he got recalled, there were a lot of women in his unit (none the first time)  (1:01:40) Said that work was done effectively, but worried that if something happened, he may not be able to trust the guy next to him  (1:03:00) More than a quarter of his unit was made of returning veterans o They stuck together  (1:03:35) Said there wasn’t any problems in his unit with women, but heard about a lot of rape that happened in other units o Because of this, there were sexual harassment briefs � (1:05:30) Said it was combative between his unit and the National Guard unit  (1:06:26) Saw that stress was getting to others in the recall unit even though it was a lower combat situation o Stress was 10x higher o Some people were so angry about being recalled; stuck the entire year  (1:07:00) He said after the first time they lightly talked about PTSD, but not much because they saw it as a sign of weakness o Talked about a guy who needed help, addicted to sleeping pills, said he needed help himself, ended up dying in Iraq on a motorcycle o On the 2nd deployment, the mentality that PTSD was weakness had changed  (1:08:25) Said that basic training was made easier the second time o They were trying to mitigate suicides  (1:09:15) Mr. Kangas bought his own plane ticket home after he was done Going Home  (1:09:54) When they got back to Ft. Hood, it was a race to leave  (1:10:03) Got back home in late March or early April of 2010  (1:10:12) Worked for a few months, laid off, was on unemployment  (1:10:19) Had plans to go back to school  (1:10:31) Said that he learned to be punctual, other positive effects, but something negative is alcoholism o Knows many people who served that drink a lot  (1:11:24) When they got back to Germany, drug use was high among military members o Meth and ecstasy available  (1:12:26) He says the stress of his job was unique; sometimes sat in the box for days at a time by his self waiting for something to happen o Complete boredom to absolute fear in a second  (1:12:56) Says that he would do it all over again � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KangasJ1115V Title A name given to the resource Kangas, John (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kangas, John Description An account of the resource John Kangas was born in Cedar Springs, Michigan in 1981. After graduating high school he was unemployed for awhile before enlisting in the army in 2001. He received his training at Ft. Sill. He worked the radar, assigned to 1st Battalion, 33rd Field Artillery. Mr. Kangas spent almost a year in Germany before going to Iraq. He worked on three different bases in or near Balad and Fallujah while staying in Iraq for a year. He then spent more time in Germany before going home. He was recalled into the military in 2009 and served in Iraq for another 7-8 months driving a truck back and forth from Kuwait to Iraq. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-06-09 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/adea33192e217ac7a33534c1762113e0.mp4 ad8ce1d10843f698089a6b23c48a1bab https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5c71b9d4af925071aed1a350ca0b661d.pdf edf6085c23f90cff013087a0e1c92e41 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project John Kandra (1:15:01) Background Information (00:12)            Born in February, 1925 in Beaverdale, Pennsylvania (a small coal mining town)(00:12) His father worked as an electrician in the mines. (00:30) His father was able to keep his job off and on during the 1930s. (00:50) There were 8 children in his family. Only 6 lived in the house. (1:18) He attended public school in Beaverdale (1:46) He registered for the draft in February and was drafted in March of 1943 while still in high school. (2:00) He heard about Pearl Harbor while working in the church on Sunday for the service. (2:36) He knew a little about the conflict in Europe. He did think the U.S. would be involved. (3:11) His two older brothers were drafted as well. (3:44) He was happy to be drafted and serve his country. (4:20) He was sent to Fort Meade, Maryland for basic training. . (4:37) Basic training (4:40)                 He was bused to Fort Meade, Maryland (outside of Baltimore) (4:40) The base had permanent barracks that the men stayed in. (5:00) He stayed at Fort Meade for approx. 3 weeks. Here he was processed and his physical condition inspected. Due to an aptitude test, he was found to be good at electronics. (5:20) He was then sent by train to Camp Van Dorn Mississippi. (5:50) The train occasionally stopped. All together the trip took several days. (6:19) Camp Van Dorn is near the Louisiana border. (6:55) This camp was used for an engineer battalion. Here the men were trained on road construction, bridge construction, and mine detection. (7:23) At the time only one battalion was stationed at Camp Van Dorn, but it was divided into A, B, and C companies. (7:50) He served in the 164th Combat Engineer Battalion, Company B. (8:16) During training, he had calisthenics for an hour at 6AM. After the men had breakfast. Then the men were trained in particular schools. (8:22) The men started their training with basic aspects such as riffle work and an extreme emphases on discipline. (8:50) Adjusting to military life was not too difficult for him. (9:20) He was given KP duty. This was often a punishment for disobeying orders. (10:11) Basic training lasted 13 weeks. (10:30) After basic, the men were given specialized engineer training. (10:35) He ended up being a radioman so such skills were not as applicable to what he actually did in combat. (11:20) �       After basic training, the men were sent on a field trip in upstate Mississippi to practice maneuvers. (12:07) He was based at Camp Van Dorn for almost a year from 1943-1944. (12:55) While off duty, there was a theater at the base the men could visit. (13:23) He did go off bases. The men would often go to Baton Rouge or New Orleans, Louisiana. The soldiers were often treated well in towns. (13:50) Due to the base’s proximity, it was difficult to observe the segregation of the south. (14:40) The men were sent home on one occasion. (15:00) The soldiers he came form were from all over the U.S. (15:47) Voyage to England (16:00)                        He was shipped overseas in February 1944. He sent out of Camp Shanks, New Jersey, on a converted cruise ship to England. (16:19) The ship traveled in a convoy. (17:45) He landed in Wales England. From here they traveled in to Chipping Norton. Here they stayed in tents. (18:45) Here he was still caring out some engineering training. (19:40) He was selected to be educated in Morse code. He studied at Oxford to learn this. (20:20) He had to be able to write and receive 30 words a minute. (20:58) Most people he trained with could pass. (21:29) The codes and the frequency that the military used frequently changed. (20:19) A radioman was required to stay at the radio he operated for 4 hours at a time. (23:10) He was given 3 weeks to learn the code and several more to learn how to operate the radio. (23:30) While studding at Oxford he stayed in tents on campus. (23:51) He spent about 8 hours a day learning code so he did not see every much of the campus. (24:16) When returning to his unit, he was given a radio to put in his platoon’s truck. (24:30) The console was also mounted on the command car. This console could only receive not transmit. (24:50) If the platoons needed to transmit back, then a runner was sent. (24:40) On D day (June 6th 1944) he was still stationed in England. He believed he would be sent in D+1 but instead was sent in on June 27th 1944 due to the number of troops that were ahead of him in the order to be sent to France. (26:15) The men were sent across the English Channel in LSTs. (27:00) He shipped to France from Southampton. (27:52) When he and the vehicles were unloaded from the LSTs he was in neck high water. (28:30) He arrived on Utah beach on June 27th 1944. (29:15) (29:20) The country side and the beach were war damaged. Towns varied based on whether or not they were hit with bombs. (30:32) He recalls coming across many of the gliders the U.S. deployed. (31:00) Service in Europe (32:00)  His first assignment was near St. Lo ,France to check roads for mines and repair road damage. (32:07) �                    His was assigned to serve with Patton. While here, a sergeant he served under was demoted for not saluting Patton as he rode by on a jeep. (32:39) He was in the St. Lo area for approx. 2-3 weeks. While we was there, he did witness some of the carpet bombing of the town. (33:50) While in a convoy passing through a small town, he came under attacked by a German aircraft. But the plane was shot down by a .50 caliber machine gun mounted on the back of a jeep. (35:04) He recalls artillery hitting approx. 30-50 yards away. He was not hit. (36:30) He followed Patton into Paris where he was assigned to construct a bridge across the Seine River (37:20) The bridge was approx 600 ft. but only took 7 hours to complete in spite being shelled during construction. Both company A an C worked on construction. (39:38) While in Paris he was given some time to see sights within the city. (40:14) After completing the bridge in Paris, he followed Patton east. (40:30) Company B built 19 bridges. Altogether the company built 41 bridges. The bridges constructed varied by design based on the scenario. (41:00) When in a town, often soldiers would sleep in the hay in a barn. Often civilians would offer the soldiers food. (41:48) The French would also try to trade things with the soldiers. (43:00) Finding French wine was also prized. (43:33) He and the other men were given The Stars and Stripes, a newspaper offered to the soldiers to give them information on the war effort. (44:47) Though at this time (fall of 1944) there is heavy fighting going on in France, his company has only had to build bridges not engage in combat. (45:10) When Patton was called into the Battle of the Bulge, his company followed but stopped at the edge of the battle field. Here the men rebuilt bridges and checked mines on forest roads. (46:00) While on a mine clearing job, his platoon encountered some German soldiers and were forced to fall back. (47:26) In early 1945 his unit was switched to the 7th army. (47:52) In January [March?] 1945 he built a bridge on the Rhine River. (48:00) He noticed less fighting after entering Germany. He recalls seeing a lot of young German soldiers who were captured. (50:16) He recalled seeing German civilians. He recalls they were fairly kind to the U.S. soldiers. (50:50) Germany Surrenders (51:00)        He recalls being near Austria at the time of the German surrender in May 1945. (51:30) After the German surrender he went to Salzburg Austria. Here the solders stayed in apartment buildings the military commandeered. (52:28) At this time there was not very much for the soldiers too be doing. He was given the task of cutting men’s hair. (53:10) He recalls the Austrians being very friendly to the American soldiers. (53:45) Salzburg was not subjected to bomb damage. However Hitler’s home he visited in the Alps was. (54:45) He went to Linz, Austria to do bridge and road repair. (55:00) There was talk of the men being sent to the Pacific however his company had slim odds of being picked to go because it would be so costly to transport the men and their equipment. (56:00) � He rode in boxcars from Austria to the English Channel. This train trip took several days in December of 1945. (56:48) Voyage home and life after service (57:00)       He was sent by boat and landed in New York Harbor. (57:32) He was discharged in December of 1945 at Fort Meade. (57:52) Upon returning he attended the American Television Institute in Chicago to get a degree in television engineering. Here is where he met his wife. (58:07) He worked for WLAV a T.V./radio station in Grand Rapids, Michigan. (58:34) He then worked for Grand Rapids Television where he repaired televisions. (59:40) Then he and 2 others set up Advanced T.V. witch set up home security systems and did large cable wiring projects. (1:00:02) Thoughts on service (1:01:04)    He believes that his time in the service taught him a lot. And that without it he and other soldiers would not be as successful as they are today. (1:01:06) When attending college he went to school all year for 36 months (3 years). (1:01:30) For a while he was in the army reserve. (approx. 2 years.) He was not involved in any other veteran’s organizations. (1:02:14 Visiting the World War II Memorial (1:02:45)    When he landed in Baltimore there were people there to greet the veterans. (1:02:57) He rode on a bus to see all the memorials as well as statues commemorating peoples and the events. (1:03:10) While on the plane back home, the men had a mail call that was compiled of letters form family. (1:04:36) Life During War (1:05:00)           He saw Bob Hope and Bring Crosby at USO shows during the year. (1:05:22) He also saw Dinah Shore at a USO show. (1:06:00) He was under artillery fire for most of the time out of the year. (1:06:30) His platoon did take casualties, however not as many as on the front line. (1:07:10) He does not recall his company having been struck by artillery. (1:07:50) When he arrived in Germany, the men often were under fire from German aircraft. However later on in the war, there were less German aircraft attacks. (1:08:15) It was common for sights of bridge buildings to come under fire. (1:08:43) He recalls a captain in his company had accidentally shot himself in the leg while attending to pull out a German pistol he had. (1:09:40) He recalls men taking souvenirs such as paintings; however he refused to partake in this as it was technically against the rules. The only thing he took was a small accordion that was given to him. (1:11:11) One of the Captains in his company received disciplinary measures as result of stealing some paintings from a house or looting. (1:12:02) �  He recalls that many Austrians were glad to see the Americans and glad that the war was over. The only time civilians were angry at U.S. solders was when they were looting or destroying property. (1:12:45) While in Nancy France, the men found a German Ambulance that he used as a command and put radio equipment in. it was used until it broke down. (1:25:38) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KandraJ1341V Title A name given to the resource Kandra, John (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kandra, John Description An account of the resource John Kandra, born in Beaverdale Pennsylvania in February of 1925, served as a radio operator in the 164th Combat Engineer Battalion from 1943 to 1945 in France and central Europe during the Second World War. He did most of his training at Camp Van Dorn however received specialized training in Morse code at Oxford University while stationed in England. During his service, Kandra spent most of his time relating messages between commanders, checking roads for mines, repairing roads, and repairing bridges. Thought he was never on the front lines his company did come under artillery and aircraft fire. Later in his life he used his training to work in television in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-01-26 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7ba824bb322615e812de1da010c5ded9.mp4 3620ce1f700bf57fe1fd5b3d3d6df2aa https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/52e1e0f56d9cbc0ce4f3e51b88c450a6.pdf ec80a03c650085215f72b7d4bb03ec6d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Edmond W. Kaminski Let’s begin with your name and where and when you were born. I’m Edmond W. Kaminski, born in Wayland, Michigan, out on the farm in 1918, September the 4th, 1918. What was your early schooling like? You’re out on the farm, was there a school house you had to walk to? Well we did have a school right next door. It was just a grade school and at that time it was an English school of course. I couldn’t speak English. I just spoke Polish. I went there the first day and it only lasted about three days and then finally I went back and they taught me to speak English. And after that, then I went to the Hilliards Michigan, Saint Stanislaus Catholic School. I was there for four years. Back up for a second here. You said that the school was “next door?” That’s right. Now, you realize of course that your great-great-great grandchildren are not going to believe the story of about “I had to twenty miles to go to school…” and all that? We had to walk three or four miles. Just for the record, I want to make sure that they understand. In the wintertime, too. So after elementary school you got into high school? Yes. We moved from the farm because of my dad’s health. We moved into town and then I went to grade school in Wayland, Michigan and finished my high school there through twelfth grade at Wayland High School. Now this is the depression? That’s right. So how was it for your family? 1:35 Well, it wasn’t too bad because we were on a farm. We had food to eat and we grew pickles and all that sort of stuff so we managed very well. �Did you pick up any particular skills? Were you a farmer or were you working on the equipment? No. No, we just did the farm work that we were supposed to do. Then after Dad thought that he’d be okay, we got the second farm. It was what they call, it had a river in the back and what they call a sugar bush. Dad was sick in bed and he said, “Boys [my brothers] go out there and tap the Maple trees.” So we did. We thought we did. One Sunday my uncle came over and he says, “The sap’s not running.” So my Uncle went out there and we’d tapped all the Ash trees. So we’d made a big mistake. That was funny! Then we moved back into Wayland, Michigan. Okay. What did you do after high school? After high school I went to the Wayland Ford Garage and I started washing cars. Then I started to be a mechanic. I went to mechanical school in Detroit, Ford Motor Company and became a full-fledged mechanic. Wow! How old were you about that time? Oh, I think between, well from eighteen until I went into the Army. So where you and what was your reaction to the announcement of Pearl Harbor happening? I was working that Sunday. I heard it over the radio. I had to work once every third Sunday. I recall that very much. I heard that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor. What was the reaction of the guys around you? Well there was just three of us there; two other gentlemen that were working there. Of course they were older than I was and we didn’t know what to think of it. Here it comes. Were you at all aware, at least somewhat aware of what was going on in Europe? Yes we knew things were not going real well because of Europe and Hitler and he was invading all the other countries too, you know. Well, he invaded Poland. 4:12 Poland. That’s right. Did that have an effect on your family at all? Was there talk about it? Well a little bit because my wife’s father was born in Poland. 2 �So Pearl Harbor happens. You are right in the age group. Right in that age group. What happened? Well, I knew I was…we were all drafted at that time. And I had to wait approximately a year. I was the last group of the draft to be going into the Army. Do you know why? Pardon me? Do you know why? Do I know why? Why did it take you a whole year to get in? I don’t know why my name come. It just happened that way. So, once you got the notice that “Uncle Sam wants you” where did you have to report to? I remember this very clearly. My sister’s birthday, January the sixth and I had to report to in Michigan here, at Battle Creek. I forget the name of the…… Fort Custer? Fort Custer, Fort Custer. I was there approximately a week. They interviewed us and took your blood tests and all of that and shots and then from there I was transferred to for basic training in Fort Benning, Georgia. No, no. Excuse me. Fort Knox, Kentucky. Okay. Now, you get there by train? No, they took us there by truck. Oh, wow. By truck we went there. Had you already been issued your uniforms by that time? Yes. They were issued when we were in Michigan. 3 �Okay. Now you’re in your uniforms. You’ve got some kind of duffle bag or something like that? Yes a duffle bag with everything in it. About how many guys – I don’t want exact numbers, but – how many guys were in this convoy of trucks? Are we talking about a dozen or a hundred? There were probably thirty or forty of us. Okay. Right from there. There were several people from Grand Rapids and the Michigan area that were in that group. Okay. Now you were older than some of these guys, weren’t you? Yes I was, a little bit older and some were younger. Some were possibly underage. Yeah. We found that out over time. You arrive by truck into Kentucky. Fort Knox. For basic. Fort Knox, okay. I want you to for me. Did you arrive in the daytime or the night time? Daytime. All right. You’re getting out of the trucks. You’re brand new. 6:43 Brand new. What am I seeing? What’s there? We don’t know. It’s all new. What do I do next? So you just listen. What are you actually seeing? I mean, how big is this place? It’s just huge. It is huge. You know the big barracks and all of these other trucks and Jeeps running around and all of the people in their uniforms and we didn’t how to salute or anything. No. So there’s guys marching off in the distance. There were people marching. 4 �Noise. There was noise going on. Noise, yes. That’s true. So somebody’s there to greet you. Was that your drill sergeant? Truthfully I can’t say that. But somebody actually got you to… There was someone there to tell us what to do and how to stand and how to take orders and march. Where did they take you initially? To the barracks? Yes they took us to the barracks to assign us to our beds, cots, and so on and showed you how to fix them up so everything would look neat. “Put your shoes here.” Right. “Clothes there.” Clothes there. They dropped the nickel on there to bounce off the bed? That’s true. Were these two tiered barracks or…the bunks themselves? The bunks were single bunks. Single bunks. Okay. The barracks itself was two stories high. Yes. All right. Now I know this is going back a long ways. First day: or at least your first remembrance of your first day - what was your first day like? Well the first day they woke us up I’d say probably six o’clock in the morning for breakfast and take it to the kitchen. Everyone had breakfast. Everybody goes in line and gets what you want to get and go from there. And after breakfast you go back and then they take you out and give you how you drill. Everybody’s drilling doing “hut, two, three, four…” Right, right. Left, right, left right. Yup. 5 �Correct. Were you issued weapons to do the…? Not at that time, no. Not at that time. We didn’t… So this is real basic stuff. 8:59 The first week was just basic things and then they went into seeing that I was a mechanic. They asked you that and then they had me driving a truck at first carrying…. So they actually, they found… We’re talking about the Army here, right? They actually figured out that you knew how to do something and they assigned you something you could do. Yes. What they call a six-by-six. Okay. And then they’d put people in trucks and take you to different areas and show you different things… Once you drove these guys out there did you have to then get out of the truck and start participating with them? Yes. Okay. All right. Then you’d had to clean the truck up when we come back. Well you had triple duty then! Just about. Well you’ve got to drive, you’ve go through all this stuff and you’ve got to wash it too. After the second week which we were there….which we weren’t supposed to do this but they let us off for the weekend. So there were three fellows from Benton Harbor and he had his car there. We managed on a Saturday to come home. My dad would meet me in Benton Harbor and take me home and then the next day he’d take me back and then we’d be back in time to go back Monday morning. Did you talk with your dad about the experience? 6 �Yes. Yes. He was quite interested in it. My two brothers were home too; two sisters. My mother was…you know how mothers are when their children get the service. I remember we were there eight weeks, going through all this together and I was home and we got a quick telephone call. “Get back as quick as you can because you’re going to be transferred.” We just did make it back in time to be transferred from Fort Knox to Camp Bowie in Texas. Okay. Now what was that experience like? Well, we went by train there to Camp Bowie in Texas and it was in the middle of Texas. It was near a town called Brownwood, Texas. I remember that it was a dry county. Their radio station was KBWD. Keep Brownwood Dry. We were not too far from Fort Worth or Dallas at that time. Okay. 11:25 Then we were assigned our tanks from there. But of course when we were living there, we were in six men to a tent. They were tents with floors in it and about four foot high wooden sides that had a stove in the middle to keep you warm. So this is a cold…this is wintertime? …That you’re in Texas? Yes. Okay. Yes. That would be in February. Okay. February, oh, okay. It got cold at night. Now, the fort in Texas was what…? Camp Bowie. Bowie, okay. B-o-w-i-e. Camp Bowie then was completely different than Knox because you didn’t have actual buildings, right? You’re saying that, tent city? It was all tents; tent city. All tents, tent city yes. How big was this? Was there a lot of people there? 7 �There was a lot of people there, yes. It wasn’t as big as Fort Knox but it was good sized. Before you arrived in Bowie, had you already been informed that you were going to be part of this tank group? Yes. Well, how did you find out? Well prior to going there that’s when they first started us driving. I drove a tank for the first time when I was in Fort Knox. Okay. Then they taught you to drive over there and I was taught how to get out in case something should happen or anything. You had an escape hatch on the bottom if you needed it and go from there. Did you enjoy the experience of driving a tank? It was fun. It was something different. It kept you busy. You didn’t have time to think about what was going on at home because you were busy all the time. I met a lot of friends; very good people. Now, I assume since you had all this experience with tanks, you had no problems with the tanks, right? You would just drive all over the place? No. No? What happened? It was a lot different than the trucks. It was pretty heavy. You know it weighed about thirty tons. Wow! It was big. Any incidents that you can comment upon? Yes. After we were there probably three weeks, we had a convoy of tanks and it was very dusty, very dry country. We were going quite fast and an awful lot of dust came up. I think there were four tanks that could not see where they were going. Of course I was not one of those but these four tanks rear-ended each other - did a lot of damage. Luckily, only one person was injured. 8 �Okay. That’s good. It just goes to show. That’s the kind of dangers that are out there. You can’t see and you’ve got this huge, heavy… 13:57 It’s huge. …piece of equipment. What was the tank that you were driving? It was the old type tank that had a seventy-five millimeter on the right hand side and then it had machine gun, a thirty caliber machine gun up in the turret. Okay. Now back in then in order to get inside the tank….like the new ones they’ve got, you get in from the top, but these you come in from the side. You come in from the side and the gunner and the radio operator would be in there, too. Well, how many people were in this egg? Five. What were their jobs? My was job was driving the tank. Right. Driving the tank all the time. Then what? Who else was in there? Then they had a tank commander, gunner and the radio operator and then the system tank driver. Okay. Who handled the machine gun when you needed it? The gentleman that…either the tank commander or the gunner, the one who put the shells in … Okay. Did you feel like you took to this? That this was not as difficult as perhaps, you know? Some people come to certain things naturally whether they’re a sniper or a radio operator. What did you feel like in terms of your tank, the tank itself? Well, I don’t know. I would say that seeing that we’re going to go to war, we just learned to get used to it and do it the right way. 9 �Yeah. All right. Once you got to Camp Bowie then, what was your daily routine there like? 15:41 It was in the morning, breakfast and then you’d have your go out an march and do all that everyday, same thing. Lunch and going to practically the same routine of how…mostly if you’re in a convoy, at fifty yard intervals. Okay. And try to keep it that way all the time and then you’d go and break up and go to the side, like if you’re making an attack of some kind, you know. So this was all maneuvers? All maneuvers, right. What is it strategy? “This is what happens when this happens. If this happens, go to there.” That’s true. Was there classroom instruction as well? Yes. It happened in the afternoon. Okay. They’d show you pictures, you know and all of that and how to clean the gun and how to use it and how to load it and all that. Was there any indication at that point of where you were going? Europe or the Pacific or…? No. None whatsoever. All right. But in terms of the tanks, were they telling you what the enemy tanks were like? No. Not at that time. Wow. Not at that time. Wow. So you’re only learning what you have and what you’re going to be operating but then the strategy is how to maneuver and… 10 �I do not recall how long we were there but we were there possibly two to three months, I would say that. Then we knew we were going to be shipped out to Fort Benning, Georgia. Okay. We went by train there. We were going to be attached to the Officer’s Infantry Training School there and they also had the paratroopers there. We were camped right next to the paratroopers. Do you recall which group that was? Which paratroopers? I’ve interviewed… No I do not. They were a tough bunch. I interviewed a gentleman who was with the 101st, one of the guys who dropped into Normandy and one of the comments he made was that they thought they were really tough until they went into town to prove it and they come back with a couple of broken teeth, or something. I remember after I got out of the Army one of the gentlemen was a paratrooper, he was one of the few who came back alive. Yeah. Now, once you finished up with your training there, where did you go next? What do you mean? In Georgia? Yes. Well, we were trained with the Infantry Officer’s Training School… Okay. …and they built tank traps. Ah… They’d build tank traps and then we’d run our tanks, try to go through those tank traps. And some of them they built pretty good because you couldn’t get through them. Some of them were not that good and once they’d leave, why then we’d just start up and move over again. 18:45 So now in addition to the training you had kind of amongst yourselves, you’re now working with another group? Another group. 11 �Okay. We also worked with a couple of Chilean officers there, too. Really? They were riding in the tank turrets. I remember, recalled one day we’d have an area where it was rather rough going and they told us to go over rough and we came to one area where there was a drop off of about ten feet and we went over this thing and I might have hit it a little hard because we found out later it was the officer that broke his ribs…in a tank trap. What kind of terrain was at that place? You mentioned that… It was clay and dirt and whenever it rained it was muddy. But we were all in barracks there, all wooden barracks there just like…but not like it was in Camp Bowie. Right. Did you get… …and then at the top of this they had, we were near the Chattahoochee River which is between Georgia and Alabama. They have these, what do they call them? They call them pontoons and they chose four of us to test out the pontoons on the Chattahoochee River. We started out at one hundred fifty yard intervals and then they came closer to a hundred and seventy-five and then at sixty, two of us went down. The tanks disappeared in the river. We were lucky to get out. Well, what did you do to get out? Well, we just got out. They were there watching us so they wanted to know how close the pontoons were before…what they could take, you know. Right. Right. That was quite interesting. Interesting! Panic would come to my mind. You could have drowned because the tanks went down in a hurry. So you actually went, you actually went down as you’re sinking. But you already knew what to do, right? I mean, you… Oh, we knew it. They told us how. So there was like an escape hatch? 12 �We were prepared for it. We wore, at that time we wore life protectors. We knew we could get out if we had to. All right. So then you, all floated up. You looked around. Everybody was… I was the only one in the tank. Oh. Wait a minute now… I was the only one. Four drivers; four tanks and four drivers. Oh, my gosh! You didn’t say that before. 21:13 Then from there we knew that we were going to go overseas to Europe. Okay, so you actually got informed this time. We were informed then in January we got on a train and went to Virginia. By airplane? No, no, no, no, no. Train? Train, yes. By train - tanks and everything. Then we got on a boat there and went overseas. It was rough. We hit some rough weather. Some people got sick and then we ended up in Casablanca after the invasion was already done. Okay. So let’s try and visualize this now. You’re arriving by ship to Casablanca. We were in a big convoy and all, you know, Naval boats all around us and everything. And then one time we, one of the boats, something went wrong with it and the rest of the convoy went on and then they left about three destroyers to protect them. Then they repaired it and they caught up with the rest of them. How did you get ashore? Just the regular ashore, you know. They just docked us and the invasion was made at Casablanca already. Right. And when we arrived, of course there were a lot of ships that were sunk. 13 �So you saw the aftermath? Aftermath of it, yes. Okay. Yes, yes. We saw that aftermath of that. What was your reaction to that? Wow! And it was a hot day when we arrived there at that time. Very hot. Yeah. You’re in the desert area. This is hot stuff. See all the Arabs there, you know. Right. And we landed. Was there a difference in smell of the place? Yes. You could smell the camels and all the Arabs wearing their long gowns or whatever you call it. Right. Right. It was probably cooler than what you were wearing though. Yeah. Then I remember the first night we had our pup tents. Everybody slept in a pup tent and it got cold at night, very cold at night. You always used a blanket and all of that. So what was the first night…the first night you were basically just settling in, right? Just settled down, right. And, as I think you’ve explained this is a lot of people here. A lot of people. You’re assigned now though, right? Yes, our whole outfit. The whole 760th Tank Battalion was there. Okay. Okay. Which is approximately how many people? Well, there’s A, B, C, D….let’s see, one, two, five….probably thirty five tanks. 14 �Okay. And how many personnel, just roughly? Five to a tank and then there was Headquarters Company and then there was Service Company and all of that. Okay. Okay. All right. Possibly, a hundred and fifty, a hundred and seventy-five people, something like that. Okay. Okay. Okay. Were you the only ones there or were there other ones there as well? Oh there was other people there too; other outfits, too. Okay. So this is a pretty huge operation. A big, huge operation. Where did you go from there? The next morning, for example, where did you go from there? 24:31 Well we stayed there about three days. Oh, okay. …In Casablanca and just about that time I recall very distinctly seeing President Roosevelt and Churchill. They were there. We were pulling military police duty and I got to see them there at that time, which - that made my day. Well there were there for the conference? For a conference, yes. The Casablanca Conference. The Casablanca Conference, yes. So you were an MP. Does that mean that you were actually guarding the area there? Guarding the area because we were waiting for our tanks to arrive. Oh, okay. Then we after we stayed there a while, they moved us to a place called Port Lyautey. 15 �Let me just….I realize that this is a difficult question because you didn’t sound like you went up and shook hands with Churchill and smoked a cigar, but…you know, you’re a very young man, this is our wartime President, Roosevelt, Churchill, of course, is famous. What was your impression of them? A lot. I thought a lot of both of them, you know; just the idea of seeing the two big shots there which I never expected to see. I mean, both of them were so unique looking. Churchill, of course, anyways kind of looked, resembled a bulldog. Yes, yes, he did. But he had a unique…the way he talked was different! You heard him? Oh, yes. We heard him talk. I was right up close to him. Oh, my goodness! So, give us an idea of what, how you were positioned? I mean… Well, they was all sitting over there, you know and then doing MP duty, I probably was within twenty feet of them. I got a good look at him. Were they just sitting there talking, or were they actually officially discussing things? Well, they were discussing things but, yeah. It lasted probably ten minutes and then we left. Okay. So we got a good look at him. Wow! That’s amazing. A moment in history. Yeah. And you were there! That’s true. After guard duty, MP duty there, the tanks arrived. Then our tanks arrived and we went on the French Moroccan border, with our tanks to guard it which is in Port Lyautey. At Port Lyautey, it was right out of the Mediterranean Sea. Then there was a big Air Force base over there, big jobs. They’d go out on the 16 �reconnaissance out over the ocean and the Mediterranean Seas and we’d watch them come back; some of them with holes in them because they’d been shot. That must have been a sight. Yes. The Mediterranean Sea, the airplanes up above…. When they were out, we watched them take off and come back. Did you have any idea where you were going next at that time? Did they tell you where you were going? No. We assumed that we were going to be in battle in there against the Germans but it just so happened that we did not catch any of it. 27:40 Yes. But I did meet General Patton there. How did that happen? He had his pearl handles on, but he said some words that I don’t think would be appreciated. Well, give us, I mean without using the exact words, give us a flavor of what he was...in other words, he got up to speak to your group? Yeah. Yeah. He said, “A lot of tank commanders are getting killed but they’re going around with their heads sticking on a turret like on a wedding day.” Do you understand? Yep. Yep. Yep. That’s the exact words that he said. Wow. So his purpose in standing there addressing you was to kind of warn you about what was coming up? Yes. And how long did he talk? Probably twenty minutes. Wow! 17 �Twenty minutes all of that. What was your impression of him? I thought that he was tough. But I understand is that he told people that he wouldn’t ask anyone to go anywhere but there wouldn’t be a place that he would not go. In other words, he would go anywhere, you know. Anywhere he would tell you to go, he would go. Right. Yes. That’s the last I saw of him after that. Obviously I’ve seen pictures, I’ve seen film footage but I never saw him in the flesh. Was he inspiring, I mean what was your impression of him? Well everything he said, he meant. That’s for sure and you could hear him. He had a good, loud voice and you knew what he was saying and if they didn’t….I remember one time someone was wearing his hat off sides and man, he went over and straightened it out. “This is the way I want it worn.” Not to me, but other people. Right. So, spit and polish! Right. The reason why I’m asking in detail is because there’s not that many people who have had that kind of close contact with a historical figure, you know? Of course he was larger than life. Yes, he was. As you said, he had the pearl handled revolvers and the helmet, and everything was literally just perfectly creased… After we left Port Lyautey we went to what they call the Cork Forest. It was all cork trees and we bivouacked there for quite a while and it was getting towards the end of the ward and at that time they had a bunch of tanks made by Chrysler Corporation and they were not very good so they donated them to the French people and about twelve of us volunteered to go back into South Africa [?] to their headquarters and we went probably a hundred miles south of there and delivered these tanks to these people. Of course, the water tank…I don’t know if you’re familiar with a tank or not, but the water tanks that they had would hold your water for drinking? 30:56 Right. 18 �Well, we were not out a half an hour but we went to get a drink of water and no water. They’d drained it all and put wine in them! We were looking for water. That lasted about two weeks before we came back. So you’re drinking wine the whole time? Well, we managed to get some water. We had to dilute it so we wouldn’t get sick. A few of them did drink a little bit of wine. And then from there, the war ended in Africa and then they were preparing to invade Italy. No, they went to…what’s that island there? Sicily? Sicily, yeah. We were not on the invasion of Sicily. We waited for all of that and then they was waiting for, lining them up to go to Italy, just south of Naples. Now, did you – during this period of time – where did you get your news from? Pardon? Where did you get your news from? Well, every tank had a…we all had radios in the tanks. You could hear that on that, too. So you’d actually listen to the invasion of Sicily or you could hear, “South Africa’s been taken?” Oh, yeah. You could hear all that. There were radios around. People always had radios. We listened to the news; how they’re doing and they took Sicily quite easily. Now, so far you have not seen combat? No combat, no. None whatsoever. But you’re about to? We’re about to, yes. So let’s talk about the next stage in… The next stage we went to Tunisia, I think it was. I think that’s it. We all loaded onto LSTs and make invasion of Italy. Now, were you aware that you’re invading Italy? Oh yes, yes. We were aware. 19 �So they briefed you? They told you… They briefed us, yes. They briefed us on it very thoroughly. All of them were going through and the unit that we were on had motor problems. So we turned around and went back and reloaded again. By the time we got them reloaded and went back, the invasion was already completed. Oh, wow! South of Naples. We then landed in Naples and boy, that harbor was just a mess! Well, what do you mean? Well, there was a lot of ships that were sunk. Ships that there were sunk and there was, you know, ships that were sunk in order to do it, you couldn’t believe the damage that was done. The bombings ahead of time, you know. When we come in, why now and again, a German plane or two would come by and take a crack at you. We’d shoot back at them if we could. Yeah. Are these just random or are we talking about whole armadas coming over at you? No, not then. They were mostly just single planes; harassments more than likely. I see. When you arrived in Naples, when you say the harbor and everything was all littered with debris and whatnot, what about when you actually landed on the land? Was there debris and was there.. It was all buildings shot up and everything but a lot of people around. Glad to meet us. Yeah. How was the reaction of the Italians? Very good; very good. They treated us real well. They treated us real well. They loved us. So, in a sense, you felt like you were the – I mean maybe not you yourself, in your own personal thing, but liberated. They were happy? They were happy to be liberated, that’s true. Yeah. Okay. All right. That’s true, very true. They were happy to be liberated. Now, once you landed did you just get into a convoy and start traveling through or did you stay in Naples for a while? 20 �We stayed outside of Naples for about two weeks. 34:52 In tents? No with the tanks in our pup tents. Right. I know. Pup tents are … I’ve slept in them, right? I know what you’re talking about! Two to a pup tent. We did all our sleeping and everything. What are you eating? C rations. They’re not good. But now and then after the war started, so of course then they prepared us for the war which was the first one we saw was the, not the Po Valley…Rapido River. That’s where we went first. We had four battle stars in Italy. So, let’s set up the battle then. Who’s participating? What are we looking at going to this battle? All the tanks were…I remember the night before we went to battle. We were amongst the 155 millimeter Long Toms. What are those? It’s a hundred..it’s a big gun. Okay. This is artillery? This is artillery. It could probably shoot ten, twelve miles a shell. And they went off that night. We thought we were being air raided. Everyone hid under a tank. 21 �But this was our guys shooting. This was our guys shooting. We learned in a hurry. Wow! Loud! Loud; very loud. This is really, really loud. Oh, there was sixteen of these guns were there. We were in the area. We’re not just shooting a couple of rounds, right? Laying down a big barrage. Could you see the glow of the explosions or is it too far away? Oh yes, you could see the glow of the explosions and the light, of course, it would light up all night, you know. You could almost read a newspaper just from the flashes of guns. Wow! So you don’t get much sleep that night. No, no not too much. But in the morning, what happened? In the morning we got ready and they give us our instructions where we were to go. Okay. And we went the first attack was at Rapido River. Now by “we” who are we talking about? Our whole outfit, along with the 36th Infantry Division. Okay. So you’re actually going in with an infantry division? With an infantry division. Are they using you for cover? Yes. Uses us as cover. So the tanks are moving forward and the infantry was… 22 �Infantry were ahead of us. Oh, ahead of you? Oh yes. Definitely ahead of us. Oh. Definitely ahead of us. All right. Of course they didn’t have any protection, which we did. Yeah. Well, lead us through now. You’re moving forward… 37:24 We’re moving forward. We’re coming to the river and then the engineers would build pontoons over the bridge to cross, for the tanks to cross. Was there resistance? A lot of resistance. Oh, like what? Well this first lasted about six days to make our first big advancement. Okay. After we crossed the river we took a few casualties and the infantry took a lot of casualties. Well, I’m not trying to get gory details and I know this is a difficult time for you, but I’m trying to get an idea of what was being shot at you? Were there other tanks on the other end? Well, there’s tanks… Machine guns? What was coming at you? Tanks, tanks and they had their big gunners. Eighty-eight and they used that for artillery. They used it for anti-aircraft and everything and you could hear that shell coming. It was just “woo, woo, woo, woo, woo…” all the time. There was no let up. This is constant. 23 �No let up, yeah. Yeah. No let up. Are you advancing and stopping, advancing and stopping? Advancing and stopping, yes but we’re far enough apart, we stop and then you wait and try to put a screen over your tent to hide it, you know… Camouflage. Camouflage. I couldn’t think of the word. Right. That’s all right. There’s going to be a lull, of course. And if you’re sitting there, sometimes well, you’d hear one of these eighty-eights coming. They were probably getting ready to see where you’re at. They’d play one long and one short and then the third one, you’d move. You’d get used to it. That’s interesting. All right. So, they’re shooting from this direction. They’ll shoot one long and then they’ll shoot one short and then that’s when you got out of the way. Got out of the way. You knew it was for you. Right. And the tanks weren’t all close together. They’d go, you know, far apart and cover different areas. And some of them be going up a mountain and the mountains were treacherous. Well, let me ask you…I already promised you that I was going to asked stupid questions so here’s one of them. What were you shooting at? What was your tank shooting at? Well, other tanks. Okay. Okay. Then after I had this tank, it had a seventy-five and a seventy-six millimeter on it, they took me out of that and they took me into a different type tank. It was wide open and 24 �they used it just primarily as artillery. It had a hundred five millimeter on it, which is a big gun. What does “wide open” mean? No turret. Oh. You had not protection at all, just the front and the sides. They had four platoons of those and I was put in one of those platoons and then the tanks would go ahead of us and then if they needed us, we’d come in and give them that, but we laid down the barrage ahead of the infantry. 40:31 I see. We had all types of shells, armor piercing. And, oh, I remember one time when we had the other tank we were in a bad area where the Germans had what they called a bazooka. Not a bazooka, it was Screaming Mimi. Oh. And it was…it sounded like a bunch of dogs and cats fighting and it would explode and it had a concussion, a big concussion. If you got too close to it, it would make you deaf or anything. They couldn’t get this, find out where it was so they finally found out where it was going in and out of a tunnel and they took my tank and we got all sulfur shots, it just burns, you know, and we put twenty-two shells into that tunnel and it never came out again. You know this is where they would have…they’d bring it out and shoot… Bring it out. …and then it would go back in again. Yeah. Okay. And it made a horrendous noise. Oh, yeah, that’s right. They called it Screaming Mimi. Screaming Mimi. Over the six day period, just so we have an understanding here. The battle is constant. Constant. There’s a little bit of a lull maybe here and there? 25 �A little bit here, yes. The most, I’ve got a book on it…I think the most, the biggest stretch that we had of battle was a hundred and eighteen days in a row, total three hundred and something. Wow. I have that in writing. So what happened when you got to the river? You were able to cross the river? We waited and waited for the infantry to take over and then we’d try to eliminate the other, the enemy then they’d have….their guns were very powerful. They were accurate. Yeah. Because our seventy-fives would not penetrate the German tank. Right. But the seventy-sixes would. Okay. We had German tanks at eighty-eight. The way they explained it is “In an out or stay there and play tag with you.” And then one advantage we did have with the guns that we had was that armor piercing was a high explosive. It would burst. Okay. That’s what that would do. Were you up against the Tiger Tanks? Yes, we were. Okay. Several of them. At that time, now I’m not a military historian, but at that time, that was the most powerful tank. It was very powerful, yeah. Well, they put eighty-eights on everything just about. Yeah. 26 �A lot of machine gun fire. This was some of the elite Germans that you were up against? Yes. That you were up against? Yes. The Panzer Divisions. The Panzer Divisions. The Panzer Divisions. They didn’t give up easy. That was when we were fighting, Anzio, of course was going on at that time to, which we were not in Anzio, we were below Cassino. Okay. Then, as we advanced mountain by mountain, we’d gain a little here and there and then we got stalled for a long time at the Cassino because the Cassino was up there. I don’t know if you heard about it or not. I have, but let’s….before we get there, you had mentioned earlier just in passing about the difficulty going up these mountains. Let’s talk about that. 44:00 Well, the roads are not made for tanks and you drive up very carefully. There were a couple of them that lost it, rolled off, just tumbled over. Some of them did. And then you’d go through these little towns and up on the top of the mountain, why, the roads were very narrow and I drove for the captain that time, before I got this other tank and it was where I was wounded. Well, I don’t want to jump too far ahead. What was the experience of driving in those treacherous conditions? I mean, you know, I picture you… Well, they would the tank commander would tell you where to go and how to do it. You listened to him. They’d be out in front of you telling where to go. Okay. So, “go left. Go right.” “Go left, go right” and something like that, yes. But there’s got to be, I mean, this is dirt roads. This… It’s scary. This is not like it’s.. 27 �No, it’s gravel, it’s stone mostly from the mountains. Oh, okay. And they were just trails put up there. We took a chance to go up and go back down again. When you go up the mountain though, are you in the process of fighting? Not all the time. Trying to get up into certain areas. If you were trying to get to certain areas, other tanks that were backing up with their firepower so that you can get into position to save yourself. Okay. And shoot at other ones. And then the other ones, and then of course, when you out in the level, then it would be tank-on-tank. Yeah. Which was gruesome, sometimes. But we understood what it was. Just a lot of heavy…. It took a lot of nerve and what most of them did, and I don’t like to say it but take some cognac. Yeah. And that would cut your nerves down. Yeah. What about your hearing? Did you have any protection? No. They never had protection of course. 45:59 Wow! See I drove the tank and I always had the…attached to the radio to the tank commander. Okay, so you’ve got headphones on. I’ve got headphones on, yes. But still, you’ve got this… 28 �You still got that… Shooting and there’s shooting and they’re shooting at you and it’s got to be loud. That’s got to be loud. Was the next major battle Cassino for you? Yes. It was Cassino. So you were involved in the battle of Cassino? It took a long time. Of course they were way up there. They could see everything because after the war a bunch of us went back over there and we got to get up there and see what it was like. They could see anything and everything coming at you. Before they took Cassino, we were at Mount Porchia and Mount Trocchio - Porchia, which is below, between two big here, and they were all of our tanks, the whole unit. Approximately how many are you talking about? All the forty tanks, all… Forty? Forty of us, yeah. If they come over there, they could bomb us out easily. And at that time is when they started bombing Casssino. Devil, you know twins, and the big bombers and all of that stuff and dive bombers and everything and then they started going at this river going into Cassino and it wasn’t very successful. It took…I don’t know how long it took but it took a long time before we were able to get them out of there. Did you have the German aircraft circling you? Oh by the way, when we were between Mount Porchia and Mount Trocchio waiting for it, a German fighter plane come over and he was real low. He was looking down. You could see it looking at us like that and it was a gentleman from Ionia happened to be in this turret at this time. He had a fifty caliber machine gun. Ta…ta…ta…ta He hit him and put him right inside a mountain. Everybody saw that. That was the end of him. Well let’s say. In terms of what you were, your group was getting, was it mostly artillery or was it also a lot of… Towards the end of the war, then I had my open tank. Right. 29 �And they use this as artillery. We also had a C, D Company, which is light tanks. These light tanks is what they used mostly to climb up. They come up from the backside on the Cassino. I see. They did it that way. But you never drove those? No, I never drove a light tank, just a medium tank. Ours was a medium tank, too. Okay. Now, this may be an unfair question but you’re driving a tank. You’re part of this huge effort. Did you have any sense of the strategy that was going on? I know you admired Patton… Telling you what to do? Yeah. Yes. So you felt like, “Okay. I know I’m only in this one part, here. This is my job. I’ve got to do this but I feel confident that somebody is figuring out the big picture.” That’s right. Did you? Yes. Yes. Okay. Our company commanders were good at that. Okay. Before we did anything, they went into it very carefully and tried to not lose any men and tanks and stuff. Yes. But we did. I think it’s important that what you said, “They tried not to lose any men.” It wasn’t just some, “Go out there and attack that.” There was strategy; there was… 30 �It was. When it was fought, it was heavy. Everything was flying and you just go in to save yourself. Go in and do the best you can. Yeah. And then after that, after Cassino was captured, on our last big push when they started out from the West side of Italy, not Cassino, but where whatchacallit was hurt, ex-President. I’ll think of it. Then they started their last big push and we decided everybody was firing at the same time. We were putting out something like sixteen to seventeen rounds per minute, a hundred and five millimeter at night. Everybody was opening up and everything and my tank commander he played the guitar. He left the guitar out and just from the concussion, it just burst his guitar just all to pieces. We did that for about four hours before we started our big push towards Rome. When you say “push forward” are you talking about under resistance? Under resistance, trying to eliminate… So you’ve got soldiers out there, the infantry is out there. Tanks shooting, stuff coming at you. Soldiers, infantry, we had the Indian Gurkhas with us too. Oh, they were good. They were quiet, very quiet. I remember one time I was on guard duty and they’d come around and steal your helmet and they’d if it goes down and around like this, it was German but they said, “Americano.” They’d sneak up on you. You couldn’t even hear them. Yes, that’s scary. The Indian Gurkhas were wonderful. They’d carry their women right with them, too. 51:57 Wow! They had their special knives and all that stuff? That’s right, that’s right – to slit their throat, I assume. Wow! That’s amazing! The push towards Rome, did you have any sense, I know you told me you had radio contact and you kind of know what’s going on in the war, did you have any sense of whether we were winning or losing? Yes. We thought we were winning because we were gaining ground all the time. We were just hoping to find out whether they would run out of troops and no resistance whatsoever and so that it would be a little easier. So far… 31 �But even after we did have it tough, at night we’d still fire periodically, like as if we were going to go just to keep them awake. Yeah. No. Yeah, yeah. The push towards Rome though, was that….did you feel any sense of it’s getting harder, they’re giving us more? The first part, the first three or four days it was rough. It was rough. We lost a lot of people and the infantry lost a lot too. We didn’t have replacements for them right away. We lost a few tanks. Any of your buddies? Two of them. Yes, two very good buddies. Then we were also with the Indian Gurkhas and we were with the 82nd Infantry – 88th or 82nd. It was a colored outfit. We went across this one river and it was after Rome so I forget what pass it was but we got across this river and they deserted us. We lost fourteen tanks that day. We had to go back and get them back again. They just completely deserted us. All that was left was us but we managed to get away and then we captured them back again. Wow. The fighting was that fierce. Yes. They just got scared, wouldn’t fight and wouldn’t put up a fight like the other people did. The infantry troops that were in front were getting the brunt of this? They were getting the brunt of it, yes. They would dig their foxholes and we were also with the Japanese Americans. Oh, really? Yes. We were with the Japanese Americans too and they were good. They could do a very, very good…they were like the Gurkhas. Wow! They were very good. It was 40…I don’t know what regiment it was, 42nd regiment or something like that. See, the 36th Infantry was out of Texas and the 88th was out of Oklahoma and the 91st Division was with us those too, several divisions, and we were with the British, too. Oh, wow! The Japanese Americans that you saw, they were also in front of you? Yes, they were. 32 �So that’s why you were able to see how fierce they were? How fierce they were fighting, yes. They had high casualties. They had very high casualties. But I don’t know whether I can say it to you now or not, but after the war, I mentioned this before - we went up to the monastery in the hotel and at that time these Japanese Americans were getting a citation from Italy and I have a picture of one of the gentlemen who was with me that got the citation. We were happy to be at the hotel when they were getting that, after the war. That was 1990. You know what’s amazing is that as you are a young man and you’re in all this you had no idea that you are witnessing historic events, you know…a black regiment; a Japanese American regiment. These are completely new to American military and the difficulties they went through to fight. Oh, I forgot to tell you again. When we were in Cassino, this was rough, we were in near Cassino and got into the town and their 88 was close. Of course we were buttoned up, we didn’t open up. Right. And the 88 shot about fifty feet to the left of me. It went underneath my tank, underneath my seat, out the side and got the tank next to it. Two tanks with one shot. The only way I got out of it, all of us got out of it, we dropped the trap door and got out that way and the gentleman that was behind us, he was from Michigan here, Ada, Michigan. He shot that 88 and put it out of commission. That was close. It exploded… No, it went under. It didn’t explode. It was so close, it went right on through and got the next tank to it. That was something. Boy, it was noisy. It really put the tank out of commission. What happens your tank is completely destroyed? You get out and wait for another one. Well right here. [He points to the picture on his sweatshirt] I’ve got a tank. It says “War in Italy.” This tank hit a landmine and I was in it and we got out of it. This picture was in Life Magazine. The tank that you were in. 33 �Yes. I didn’t get hurt. Nobody got hurt. My grandson got the picture – I’ve got the picture here and put it on here for me. I’m quite proud of him. Let me ask you this, how many tanks did you go through? Three, lost three tanks. Wow and survived every one of them! Yep. Without a scratch? Well, I got this one scratch here. I’ve got this scratch here between the eye, towards the end of the war. What happened? We were driving and a shell lifted the end of us and the gun was out here, it was still this open job, it was open. It hit the tube of the gun and glanced off and hit me. I had goggles on and I split my goggles right in half. The scar is right here. You can see that. I can see that, yeah. So I got out a little early. I got five points for that after the war. But it was something that I never expected to see or hear or anything like that. There were times when you’d take a break and enjoy yourself and play volleyball or something and we did get to go back to Rome on a break. We were to get the break - we stopped at a place called Lake Bracciano. There’s a big lake, a huge lake and there’s a lot of whitefish in there and people didn’t know how to catch the fish so a bunch of the guys took hand grenades. They dropped the hand grenades in the water and then the fish would come up. Boom! A bunch of whitefish laying there, eh? There’s lunch or dinner! Yeah. Then we got to go up to Rome. I did… Were you part of the actual liberation of Rome? Yes. We pulled into Rome and oh, my gosh! Everybody just loves you. Everybody just sort of…we pulled into Rome and took over and everybody just...you get out of tanks and “Praise you God” and everything and the women are kissing you and all that stuff and it was really an experience. Let’s try it out. You yourself, okay? As you are coming into Rome, it’s been taken, right? You’re coming into Rome as part of a convoy? 34 �Part of a convoy – trucks and Jeeps and trip tanks and everything. So you start to come in and what do you see? People flocking out onto the street. All right. Okay. Throwing flowers at you. Throwing bouquets, cheering and everything; jumping up on the tank and everything. It was just great. People were, they were liberated, you know! They’d been under war for that long. The only think I can say is they did not touch the Basilica or anything like that. The Germans stayed away from that. 1:00:42 Wow! I did get to see the Pope. A bunch of us did see the Pope. How did that happen? That was, well we were out at bivouac at Lake Bracciano. They brought us back and took us in there and there were probably three hundred of us. He talked to us. It was really something. You’ve met some amazing people! It was interesting. Wow. Did the Pope speak English? Yes. A little bit – not like this last one, the Polish one. This one. So basically he was blessing you, thanking you. Blessing us and thanking us for all our help. That had to feel good! There was no damage whatsoever within the Vatican. The Germans stayed away from it. Rome is beautiful. I’ve been there – not under the circumstances you’re talking about. Well, I was there in 1990 too. Oh, okay. Yeah. By then it was black! Soot and all that kind of thing. 35 �Cassino, Cassino, it was nothing left, just rubble. Now it’s all built up. So once you went through the liberation of Rome, did you stay in Rome or did you guys just go all the way through the city and you went somewhere’s else? No we went on to Rome probably twenty miles and then we rested for about two weeks and then went on to the final push to the Po Valley which there wasn’t much resistance from there. By that time, were you getting a lot of prisoners of war? A lot of prisoners of war coming, periodic fire but not too much; not much at all. Were you a witness to, because I’ve talk to a lot of the infantry guys and whatnot where you are moving along and all the sudden just, people started coming out with their hands up. People started coming out with their hands up, yes. They were mostly young people. That’s what I wanted to ask you. They were young people. Because you had talked about the Panzer divisions and the…but what were you seeing now in the way of soldiers? Of our soldiers now? No, the surrendering soldiers. What do they look like? Well, they were young and they seemed happy. They seemed happy. They were away from it, you know. They know they are going to be okay and as far as I could see, we treated the Germans real well. They were captured. We captured quite a few of them. Would they basically just come out of the woodwork, so to speak with their hands up? No guns or just guns thrown down? They’d come out, drop their guns and come back at you and their hands up and oh, probably three, four hundred at a time sometimes at the end of the war. Now, it wasn’t your job to take care of them? No. So basically somebody… 36 �We just led them back. I don’t know who took care of them. I have no idea. The reason that I know that they were young, after the war – remember I told you we were there? Yeah. We found a German cemetery and it was well taken care of. There was a Panzer Division and there were graves that were there, a lot of Polish kids, fifteen, sixteen years old and there were ages on them Like my name, Kaminski… Right. My wife’s name, Malinowski…they were in the German cemetery, all young Polish people. They were conscripted? Yeah. They were killed. Did you ever run into any SS as they were surrendering? Yes, yes, yes. They would wait until the end. They would wait until the end. They had their self-propelled guns and their tanks too and some of them in tanks. They’d finally come through and it would hurt them to surrender because they were really true SS troops. They were tough. You could tell the difference? Yes, you could. I asked other vets and they said they could tell. You could tell because the look on their face was, “Why am I giving up?” Wow. Scary. But these young kids, you just felt sorry for them. Did you see old people too? Just the French people. Oh, okay because I run into people who have talked about not only the younger ones, but old guys. 37 �When we were up in the front lines, we ask the people in German, “Wo die Deutsch sind?” “Where did the Germans go? “Ils sont tout allé “They went away.” Then they’d tell us that they’d killed all their chickens and took away. Once in a while when we got hungry, we’d pick up a couple of these chickens. Get a gun…have a fresh chicken. Yeah. And it was good. So, what was the last part of your military experience there? You got injured, but what happened after that? After that, we were injured, we went to the Po Valley and there was very little fighting there. It was all green where they grow a lot of stuff and men, we assembled and we backed into - I forget the name of the town. I’ve got it in pictures, the name of the town. We got out all of our equipment, laid it all out, tank on tank and people in front of it and they’d come around and the General would inspect it and we were all done with it there and then they sent us home. So where were you on V-E Day, Victory in Europe? Near Genoa. How did you hear about it? On the radio. Okay. On the radio. We were all happy. I was going to say, what was the reaction of the guys? Very, very pleased to have nothing coming at you. I’ve heard about guys shooting guns in the air and breaking open bottles of wine. Oh, we did have wine I forgot to tell ya. When we were in Casablanca, we had a lot of wine there. A lot of the guys drank it and they were sick. I got a little sick once from wine. Oh, my gosh! Another time when we were below Rome, the Germans had their wine cellars in dirt things you know and then they have little areas to go like that. And we tried to find them and the Italians would really, really guard them. So we finally found this one. I had a 45 38 �on me and I plugged two holes into it and so we got our wine. Everybody was looking for that. Immediately after you got injured, what was the process of taking care of you. Did you have a medic take you somewhere? To a field hospital? They had a medic take it out, yeah and there was a piece in there. Still? No, they took it out. I was probably out of service about three days and then I went back until the end of the war. But it hurt and it bled quite a bit. Well, you’re lucky it didn’t hit your eye. I’m lucky. It could have hit an eye. You’re lucky it could have gone through your brain… Yeah, they shell did, probably thirty yards to the left, glanced off the tube and then into my… So. I couldn’t see for a while. Oh, wow! It knocked out your sight. You literally…that had to be scary. It was. I hoped, I thought I might have lost an eye, but I did not. When you were treated for that, were you in a field hospital? Yes. What was around you? Did you see casualties around? A lot of casualties, yes. But you were blind at that moment. Yes. So all you could do is hear things. Is hear things. But at that time, when we were – no before that when we went to this one town, we took an awful bunch of casualties. I think it was on Saint Lucia up on the 39 �mountaintop over there. Right there is where we got hit the hardest. We lost an awful lot of men. It was before Rome. No, after Rome, excuse me. After Rome. Let me ask you this, V-E Day, was there any chance of you being a part of the invasion of Japan? No. Not…there was to other outfits because it was all by numbers. You had so many points. I had enough points to go home right from Italy. Okay. So I went home. I got on a boat and went home from there. Where were you when V-J Day was announced? Around Genoa. Also? Okay. It was all there and then went by truck, got on a…I think, I don’t know…forget what place we went out of right now to go back home. V-E Day, V-J Day, it’s all over with. You know you’re going home. What were you thinking? Happy. Happy to get home, see my family. Get on with your life? Yes. That’s the one thing I hear so much is that, you know, “It’s over with. We did our part. Now it’s time to get on with my life.” After that, I got back working as a mechanic at a bus company and I went into the insurance business after that. Yes. Well let’s talk about the homecoming. Where did you dock when you came back? New York. Now, the Statue of Liberty, right? Yes, we saw that. 40 �What was your reaction? Great to see! Great to see, yes, yes. Because it’s home. You’re back. It was home, yes. I remember going home by train. Did they know you were coming? Yes, they knew I was coming. Okay. So you arrive by train? By train back here to Grand Rapids. And who’s waiting for you? My girlfriend! My wife now. Lucille. I saw her before I saw my parents! 1:10:54 Oh wow! That’s one sweet lady, that she’d come out there before your parents even showed up. Yep. Come on! What was that like? Seeing her… Wonderful! Just great. You get off the train. You’re in uniform? Yes. I got off the train in my uniform, yes. It’s been a great fifty-eight years with her. Did she give you a hug? Oh, yes. That must have felt good! It was great! So from there, where did the two of you go? We got married the following November. No, I mean did you go to your parents’ then? 41 �We went to her house first, you know. She was at the train station to meet me and we went to her house. We got into her sister’s car and she took me home to Whalen. Come on! This is for your great-grandchildren, okay? What was that moment like? It was wonderful, yeah. I can’t explain it. It was just great! Mom came up and gave me a big hug and Dad did too. Oh, my gosh. 42 �Brothers and sisters. You’re back home. Back home and it was great. I’ll never forget it. Yeah. I’ll never forget it. I have one more question for you. I’m not referring to the battle experience per se, but your overall military experience and I mean from the very beginning when you got drafted, you went through boot camp, you went through all this experience and finally, you got home. How did your military experience shape the person that you are today? Well, it changed me quite a bit! I grew up. I grew up quite a bit. I’ll never forget after the war was over, we had some friends from our outfit from Washington all over, went to a dance hall here. Somebody dropped a firecracker. You could tell everyone who was in the service. They hit the floor. It was that way. You were nervous. 1:13:11 Yeah. Did you talk about the war at all afterwards? Not too much, not too much. Sometime, people now days – they don’t care to hear about it. I don’t know why, but they don’t talk about it much now. Yeah, but it’s… Sometimes it’s discouraging to me that they don’t do that. It does to me. Well, I hope you realize that what we’re doing here is just the opposite. We’re trying to get people to talk about it. It’s important, at least in my opinion that we get these stories down now. The experiences of what you went through. I know I have two grandsons I got the book on it and they are quite interested in it. They should be. You know, I know that you don’t think this way, because I know so many other vets I talk to, but I think it’s important for you to realize…I was talking to you about the school programs I do. I go in and train kids on how to do oral histories and get them involved in the Library of Congress Veterans’ History Project. You may not think you yourself are responsible but it’s you and your generation – my father’s generation - the ones that stood up to Hitler and to the Japanese and we have the freedoms we have today because of what you went through. Because of what we did, right. I feel that way. 43 �Good. I’m very glad. I feel that way. And you have the mark to prove it! Yes. Right there and thank goodness you came back in one piece. One piece, thank goodness is right. Thank you very much Frank, it’s been a pleasure. It’s been a pleasure too, sir. 44 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KaminskiE1 Title A name given to the resource Kaminski, Edmond W. (Interview transcript and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kaminski, Edmond W. Description An account of the resource Edmond Kaminski served with the 760th Tank Battalion in Italy during World War II. His account includes discussions of armored training and combat in a series of battles in Italy, including Cassino. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-05-04 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f98bea83810af34582ac6852ad73024e.mp4 9033846ed16bb22ec70227af193636fc https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dfd5225323cd4061dcb3fb243bb1e7a7.pdf 215963001522fc1601e8a912d4fb9ca6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Edmund Kaminski (01:09:24) (00:01) Background Information • • • • Ed was born on a farm near Wayland, MI He couldn’t speak English when he first went to school Ed graduated high school in 1936 and began working for Ford Motors Ed was drafted and went in with the last group on January 6, 1942 (03:35) Training • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • He was sent to Fort Custer and then to Fort Knox, KY At Fort Knox he went through basic training, drove trucks, and early model tanks The tanks had a 5 person crew: a driver, assistant driver, tank commander, radio operator, and a gunner Ed was sent to Texas in March He was at a new camp and they slept in tents They trained with rifles and machine guns He had to learn all of the stations of the tank Ed was in Texas for a year and was organized into a unit There was a HQ, maintenance, A,B,C and D companies and the A-D companies each had 5 tanks They were the 760th Tank Battalion The unit was sent to Fort Benning, GA, by train Ed trained with the infantry on how to make and get out of tank traps He started working with Sherman tanks that had a 75mm cannon, a .30 caliber, and a .50 caliber machine gun In Texas he could go into Brownsville to dance Ed was at Fort Benning for about a year Right before Christmas of 1942 they went to Camp Pickett, VA to deploy (16:37) Deployment • They loaded their tanks and got on a troopship • About half way over they were told they were going to Casablanca in Africa • It was about 2-3 months after the invasion, which had taken place towards the end of 1942 • They were on a Liberty Ship in a convoy �• Their boat’s motor broke, so 3 cruisers waited for them and then they caught up with the convoy • Ed was assigned to be an MP when he got to Casablanca • Roosevelt and Churchill came there for a conference • They had to wait 2 months for their tanks • Ed went to the Cork Forest and still didn’t see any action • They played cards and had a track meet to pass the time • He was a corporal and then while he was still in Africa made T4 sergeant • The unit went to Oran and then was sent to Italy (25:50) Italy • Ed landed in Naples, Italy towards the beginning of the Italian invasion • In Africa they would sell the Arabs used tea leaves to get back at them for selling bad eggs • He was in an independent tank company that supported the infantry • Italy had a lot of mountains and it was sometimes hard to maneuver a tank • The infantry gave them targets • New shells and new tanks came into use • Ed was put in an open 105mm artillery tank [M7 Priest] • They encountered German tanks and destroyed at least three of them • His tank hit a double mine and it threw the track off • There were a lot of casualties especially when there was tank to tank combat • Ed sometimes used his tank as artillery by digging a hole and backing the tank into it to get more range • The Germans had strong tanks with an 88mm cannon that could go right through another tank • They moved on to Cassino and fought the Germans • Then they went around Cassino and back in when it was taken • The unit took about a month break (39:20) Northern Italy • They captured Rome and about 300 people including Ed got to see the pope • His crew remained the same throughout the war in Europe • Ed was hit between the eyes with a piece of shrapnel, but was stitched up and returned to his unit the same day • Sometimes they were told to fire at the Germans with no particular target, just to harass them �• There were a lot of German prisoners towards the end of the war; most of them were young, but some were SS and had to be watched closely • Cassino was the most dangerous place • Ed was teamed up with the 92nd infantry and they took a town, but the infantry retreated so Ed’s unit had to leave some tanks behind • They didn’t see many German planes • The Italians were grateful and would take the soldiers in to feed them • Ed would give the Italian children candy (58:24) War Ends in Europe • • • • • • • • On September 9, 1945 Ed left for home because he had enough points It took 2 weeks to get back on a troopship Ed was discharged in Virginia and took a train back to Grand Rapids, MI He got married on November 15, 1945 Ed worked at a bus company and then retired from an insurance company after working there for 24 years When he was in Casablanca he saw General Patton He fought with Gurkha British soldiers from Nepal that were good at sneaking up on people Ed visited Europe about 12 Years ago to see some of the places he had been during the war ��,. I -War in Ita IY (conlinued) .I , .i ., ~~. ~~~ Off Ihe side 01 aroad ha s r"l kd this dam aged U. S . SlllTma n IIwdillm tank . It is per mun cntly out of co m m iss ion with its right t rn ck blown off. Also its AA gun on lop is d cstro ved . Ev .',' !-Ill' Irees nrc snell-m urk ed a lid o nly slud.tereJ wal18 n -iuui n of l.he huilding iu th e buck grou ml. American field Service ambulance, in use by the Bri tish, J'npt i.. ~ I is mired deep ill Itu lian mud. On its (':1.f l) o ll flf'~(~ ne t ,""hi,:'~ ~'~~ _ :l ! .: ; ~ ::prt "1.J. 0 -c r t ! ~l., ·: d l. ~ ek t o ~ tillc il ;r'JltI '; ;...-:nU;'l ri s t ru l ers . The cha in Oil th e bumper has probably beou IJ sNI ill a vain attemp t to ext ract it fro m the mud . � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KaminskiE2 Title A name given to the resource Kaminski, Edmond W. (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kaminski, Edmond Description An account of the resource Edmond Kaminski served with the 760th Tank Battalion in Italy during World War II. His account includes discussions of armored training and combat in a series of battles in Italy, including Cassino. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-05-27 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e6da76a46c499cd135011f366e10e3df.m4v f1e32535ee0ff8f693a24377cca37ced https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1cfe22f3217121e03bd5a82e5f12203b.pdf 7e80a428eb0536b2022dad569534b22a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Harry Kamer Length of Interview: 46:23 Background Information (00:10)  Born in Hudsonville, Michigan, outside of Grand Rapids.  He has three brothers and three sisters  He grew up living on small farm of 60 acres that his family kept up during the depression.  His parents were poor and always struggled to keep the farm.  His father worked in a factory to help pay for farm  He did not finish high school, only went to the 8th grade. He helped out on his family’s farm and worked for other farmers harvesting celery as well  Pearl Harbor was heard about from the news on the radio. They did not have TVs then. (3:00)  He assumed he would be drafted, so he was prepared for it to happen and did not have hard feelings about it. Enlistment and Training (4:05)  In February of ‘ 43 he was drafted  First he was sent to Chicago for interviews  Sent to Fort McClellan, Alabama for basic training.  There the land was very hilly and they had to do much exercising and walking  The rules were strict and the drill sergeants were fair  He spent 6 weeks in basic training  Went to Illinois and Norfolk, Virginia for advanced training and to be shipped to Africa � He first went to Africa on a troop ship and landed in Casablanca after two weeks(7:20)  They were trained in Casablanca  They stayed in tents for the duration in Casablanca  As a group they left for Italy on a ship and a barge Italy (10:55)  They landed in Salerno, Italy  He was assigned to the 34th division of the infantry.  He was assigned to the anti-tank company. His job was to operate anti- tank gun which was a 37 millimeter.  He did not have training for gun in basic but was just given the gun and told to go use it.  Many of the people in his unit had experience and knew what to do  Not long after landing they went into combat  In combat for the first time in Cassino Italy. (13:35) o They were shelled at night and when they dispersed because they didn’t have cover and he got lost. o He didn’t get back to his unit for a while. He became sick and finally got back to the unit to be treated.  The Germans would shell when they noticed movement.  Once they found a spy that was radioing the Germans when there was troop movement. (16:06)  He went back to Naples then on to Anzio.  In Anzio He was in a squad of five that was in the outpost in the front line. They were a protection post. o They couldn’t stick their heads out because of how close they were to the Germans. o In a dugout all had to lay one way to fit. In there until wounded. They were there for weeks under cover. o  Didn’t have any way of communicating with others.. Flat land. They were wounded at night. o A motor shell landed in the hole and exploded. �o Only their feet and legs were injured. They were still able to walk. o They had a jeep nearby to go back for help to the field hospital.  He had to stay in hospital for three months then had to recover for three more months.(22:15)  When he rejoined unit they were north of Rome. The weather was cold and windy.  When he rejoined his unit, they were always on the move. Artillery had moved up to front and they were hit badly by German planes.  He was with the infantry and did not do a lot of fighting, but still had bullets flying by constantly. (26:21)  He spent a lot of time in fox holes along the frontlines.  They used a truck to travel from place to place.  He was able to see Rome and Genova.  Italians had a low class[poor?] country and weren’t very hostile  German prisoners were loaded into trucks. Usually they cooperated well.  Saw [heard about?] Gestapo line up women and children and shoot them.(29:55) After the War (33:00)  Went back home in a troop ship. Took only a week to get home rather than two.  Landed back home and went back to Chicago for discharge.  Went home as soon as he could. Was gone for over 3 years.  Went back to work in Grand Rapids for 30 years.  Lost hearing from artillery firing  Those serving deserve praise for fighting for the country  He had a reevaluation for his hearing and his wound. Receives $132 pension a month. �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KamerH Title A name given to the resource Kamer, Harry (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kamer, Harry Description An account of the resource Harry Kamer was born in Hudsonville, Michigan, and during the depression. He left school after 8th grade to help on the farm, and was drafted in 1943. He was shipped to North Africa and trained there before joining the 34th Division for the campaigns at Cassino, Anzio and Northern Italy. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-12-14 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives