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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6ab263495ca4f6426d643bea777500a0.mp4
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b60966b87e7935ac43ea765ad8ba7738.pdf
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PDF Text
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Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Iraq
Christopher Notestine
Total Time (00:52:44)
Introduction (00:00:09)
Christopher was born in Charlevoix County, Michigan on July 26th, 1980 (00:00:21)
He has a younger brother and grew up with both parents and comments it was a “white picket
fence” type of family (00:00:55)
◦ Christopher had no major motivation to join the Army as he just drove by the recruiting
office one day and thought that's where he wanted his life to go (00:01:21)
◦ He worked as a roofer before he started basic training at the age of 19 (00:02:06)
◦ Christopher did his basic training at Ft. Benning in Georgia and trained as 11 Bravo
(Infantry) (00:03:15)
▪ After AIT and basic training, he showed a knack for weapons and did a few more weeks
of additional training in Dragon and Javelin weapons systems (00:05:26)
▪ Christopher spent a few weeks at home and then headed out to Ft. Lewis in Washington
(00:06:35)
▪ He was part of the 2nd Battalion 23rd Infantry that worked with Stryker vehicles
(00:07:04)
▪ His unit was originally decommissioned; eventually they became recommissioned and
became the 23rd Infantry Stryker Combat Team (00:09:16)
His units did hard training as they wanted to get the units up and running- they
trained in Yakima, Washington at high altitudes; this was all prior to the September
11th, 2001 attacks (00:11:09)
They went to JRTC Ft. Polk, Louisiana for about a month and then to NTC in Ft.
Irwin, California (00:11:40)
The attacks of September 11th occurred right before he left for Louisiana and
California while he was in Washington (00:11:57)
◦ Christopher was told he was going to train before heading overseas- he didn't
have a clue where he would be heading at the time though- about eight months
later Christopher and his unit were in Iraq (00:13:54)
◦ At the time he remembers he and his unit being gung-ho about getting revenge
for what had happened- even though he comments now that he didn't know what
was going on then and just wanted to go do something because Americans were
killed (00:14:28)
▪ In preparation to go to Iraq, there was physical and mental testing done- he
said they just went and jumped on a plane and left as they didn't have any
plans and then just went to war (00:15:36)
Deployment in Iraq (00:15:58)
Christopher and his unit landed in Kuwait and went to a base just south of the border of Iraq
and waited there for about a week for their vehicles to get there (00:16:02)
It was October of 2003 and very hot- weather in triple digit degrees (00:16:28)
�◦ After the vehicles showed up he mentions the Army figured out their vehicles weren't RPG
proof so they had to rework the vehicles which took a couple days (00:17:36)
◦ He describes the process of moving north towards Iraq as they witnessed chaos and mayhem
and didn't really have any guidelines on how to deal with it all- they didn't stop because of
IED's (00:18:24)
▪ One of the first bases Christopher went to was Anaconda- “it was horrible” he comments
while he laughs about it (00:20:43)
▪ The living situation was pretty bad at the camp so they slept in their trucks for about a
month (00:21:24)
One of the Stryker units' duties was to be the first group there after a base had been
mortared- he says that the mortars were hit and they'd be out the gate before anyone
called them out there (00:23:09)
nine out of ten times they wouldn't be able to catch who was mortaring them but if
they did catch them, they would (00:24:11)
◦ Christopher mentions there was all types of ethnicities and genders represented
in his unit- he says he thinks every unit in the Army is like that (00:26:08)
◦ He jokes that tires were their best technology in detecting IED's (00:27:39)
▪ A lot of the raids he was involved with dealt with insurgents who were
weapons dealers- a lot of the time there wasn't anything there (00:29:14)
▪ The nature of the fighting stayed the same as he mentions Saddam Hussein's
forces used mortars and the insurgents or other people that didn't want the
United States there used IED's- all the action was jumbled together
(00:32:19)
▪ After they spent about nine-ten months in Mosul, Iraq, they showed the next
group of soldiers what they did and advised them on what to do; they handed
over their Strykers and were shipped out Diamondback Airfield across the
Tigris River (00:33:16)
On the way to Diamondback, one of their C130 planes got hit and had to
do an emergency landing between their and Kuwait (00:34:31)
Back to the United States (00:35:10)
The homecoming process was very long as Christopher just wanted to see his family but had to
go through and be 100% accountable to the Army and their check-ins (00:35:30)
Christopher and his unit got about a month's time worth of leave (00:37:52)
◦ He got married a few months before he deployed and had the wedding ceremony when he
returned from Iraq (00:38:59)
▪ Christopher was injured in Iraq by an IED and couldn't do infantry anymore; he didn't
feel his service was complete- he joined the National Guard and came to the 1434th
Engineer unit out of Grayling, Michigan and has been there since 2005 (00:40:25)
▪ Christopher gets the impression that the Iraqi's don't really care to change their ways and
it angers him that the United States is still there and not much has happened although he
acknowledges he's sure not everyone is like that (00:41:34)
Back to Iraq (00:42:36)
Christopher and his unit were doing construction missions on his 2nd deployment to Iraq; they
would go out to certain bases and build police stations or army style barracks for the local
police (00:43:05)
�
He was deployed for eight months with few additional months of training (00:44:06)
◦ His unit went through specialized combat training but Christopher didn't have to because he
was previously in the Army; they trained at Ft. McCoy in Wisconsin for about a month or so
(00:44:35)
◦ If his unit needed anything he was the go-to guy for fixing things (00:46:51)
◦ The timeframe for his deployment was 2009-2010 (00:47:37)
Back to the United States (00:48:16)
The homecoming the 2nd time around was in Grayling, Michigan and was a lot different: there
was not much checking in with the National Guard and they saw their families and friends
immediately (00:48:37)
He mentions he didn't do a darn thing for about three weeks after he got home from Iraq
(00:49:44)
◦ He went back to work for the National Guard; he had to go to Wisconsin to do inventory
(00:50:32)
◦ Christopher and his unit went to El Salvador; they built four or five school houses for kids
but they spent several million dollars- he says it would have been cheaper to contract it out
(00:51:42)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
NotestineC1576V
Title
A name given to the resource
Notestine, Christopher (Interview outline and video), 2014
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Notestine, Christopher
Description
An account of the resource
Christopher Notestine was born in Charlevoix County, Michigan, in 1980. He joined the Army at the age of 19 and did his basic training at Ft. Benning in Georgia. He became part of the 2nd Battalion 23rd Infantry which used Strykers. Christopher and his unit went to Iraq in October of 2003 and mostly stayed in Mosul, Iraq. He was injured by an IED in Iraq and could no longer serve as part of the infantry so he enlisted with the National Guard in the 1434th Engineer Battalion based out of Grayling, Michigan. He went back to Iraq in 2009-2010 as part of a construction unit. He continued to work for the National Guard after he got home from Iraq in 2010.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Dashner, Matthew (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
United States. National Guard
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-03-08
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c9780f149bdf08b8b64a41f2cc06504f.mp4
5d4974a7d45c06ae802e9f3b1d792b16
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7766bf419342c25cb6f45ca4ccbee2ea.pdf
e71fc46439db6b31a150f2d54e25afe6
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Wayne Monroe
(00:38:30)
(00:00) Personal Background
• Born in Byron Center, MI
• Describes his parents’ employment
o Father was a teacher
(01:20) The outbreak of the War and the bombing of Pearl Harbor
• Was in school when he heard about it
o Too young to be drafted
o Teacher was drafted
• Learned most of what he knew about the war from newspapers
(02:52) Enlisting in the Navy
• Joined when he was still in high school in 1944
• Physical performed in Detroit
• Describes Great Lakes Naval Station
o What it looked like
o Basic training (10 weeks long)
o Required courses (6 weeks of classroom work)
(05:25) Shipped to San Francisco
• Placed on an oilier named Kaskaskia
(06:50) Pacific Theater in 1945
(08:15) War Duties
• Provided fuel for other ships
• Lived on the boat – did not set foot on land for six months
(10:52) Encounters with Japanese forces
• The closer to Japan he got, the more kamikazes he saw
o Kamikazes were mostly hit fighters
o Many kamikaze pilots jumped ship before the plane exploded
o Describes an instance where his ship almost got hit
� A different US ship got hit
o Describes a scenario where kamikazes interrupted the fueling of two ships
• Most of the larger battles were over by the time he got to the Pacific Theater
• Describes an encounter with a Japanese submarine
(16:57) The Ship
• One of five of its class; from Boston
�•
•
•
•
•
Able to stay with fleet – refueled at 30 knots
Took injured people
o Able to board injured onto other ships
o Brought in replacements for injured soldiers
Large cooler inside stored food
Ship had128 men; was 552 feet long
Describes a scenario where a carrier once came too close and hit his ship
(20:25) Okinawa Mission
• Describes encounters with “suicide swimmers”
• Mentions that he was below deck most of the time, and couldn’t actually see most
of the action
(23:18) Other Missions
• Went to Northern Japan following the battle at Okinawa
o Involved in bombarding
• Describes hearing about the atomic bomb dropping and Japan’s surrender
• Went to Tokyo after the end of the war
o Mentions that there was still some activity following the war’s end
o Treated well by the Japanese, but once witnessed a man who fell on his
sword
(28:20) Life After Japan
• Watched the signing of the armistice
• Ship fueled in Shanghai
o Describes Shanghai
o Stayed until Christmas
• Went to Taiwan for one week, then Hong Kong
o Describes Hong Kong
• Went to Saudi Arabia for fuel
o Mentions and describes a stop in Singapore
o Describes Saudi Arabia
(32:55) Return to the United States
• Returned to San Francisco on 1 July 1946
o Went to GLNS from there
o Returned to Byron Center from GLNS
• Accepted a job with his father at Reynolds Aluminum
(35:12) Reflections on the Navy
• A “nice experience,” but would not do it again
• Got very little sleep, due to the busy schedule
• Tells a story about being fired at while entering the mess hall
• Tells a story about a young officer who learned to shoot at anything that moved
�(38:30) The Crew
• Some members were experienced, yet others were not
o The ship was under repair when he joined
� Many older members were transferred
� Many new recruits were placed on the ship
• Many fellow crew members earned enough points to leave
o Many soldiers had “frozen” points – were not allowed to leave
o Older soldiers had skills that were needed
• Describes the upward mobility within the Navy
o Was offered promotions, but did not take them
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MonroeW
Title
A name given to the resource
Monroe, Wayne S. (Interview outline and video), 2007
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Monroe, Wayne S.
Description
An account of the resource
Wayne Monroe served in the US Navy between 1944 and 1946. Her served as a crewman on USS Kaskaskia, a large oiler, and saw action at Okinawa, where he witnessed kamikaze attacks. After the war, he sailed to Japan, China and Arabia before returning home to be discharged.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.)
BCTV
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Navy
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2007-10-23
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d4e5285cefb4094a0c90624f77d94b50.mp4
d5aee7e417fde9d15dd3dc52e1f5da92
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9a09121924534b85e6ca32b2ea74bf7d.pdf
f0f489f4eb30d8df88d9f803ab7bb2ad
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
Vietnam War / Post-Vietnam Era
Trinh Nguyen
Interview Length: (01:10:02:00)
Early Life (00:00:19:00)
Born in 1941 in a rural village in the Mekong Delta of South Vietnam (00:00:19:00)
Nguyen grew up in the rural part of the country with his parents and grandparents, who
made their living by planting rice; his family’s lives were not prosperous but they were
okay (00:00:32:00)
o One of Nguyen’s cousins eventually went to Saigon to study and become an
engineer while his other cousin went to France to study; Nguyen’s aunt was a
landlord, meaning she had money to send both cousins to school (00:00:55:00)
During the time Nguyen lived in the rural country, the Vietnamese were fighting with the
French, meaning the villagers needed security for their homes (00:01:34:00)
o Nguyen began going to school in 1949, when the French set up an outpost near
their village to take care of security (00:01:54:00)
o Nguyen and most of the other children in the village ended up going to the school
at the outpost, which was about two kilometers away from the village; the
children walked there everyday and some other children in the school had to walk
farther (00:02:14:00)
Everyone had to walk to go to places because, at that time, they had no
means of communication or transportation (00:02:37:00)
o Nguyen went to the French school for four years before going to My Tho for high
school, where he lived with his uncle-in-law (00:03:07:00)
Nguyen was too young to remember any of the fighting between the Viet Minh and the
French, partly due to there not being any form of communication in Nguyen’s region;
they did not have radio or even newspapers (00:03:51:00)
o He does recall going to his neighbor’s and hearing about the Viet Minh victory at
Dien Bien Phu; everybody in Vietnam loved that victory because they wanted to
drive the French out and gain independence for the country (00:04:11:00)
o Both Nguyen’s uncle and father-in-law left to fight with the Viet Minh; both men
were gone for about two years before returning and Nguyen does not know why
they left the Viet Minh (00:04:41:00)
Nguyen attended high school from 1953 until 1962; after graduating in 1962, he went to
Saigon to attend the university for dentistry, but only for a year (00:05:33:00)
o However, Nguyen could not make any money to live as a student, so his uncle-inlaw, a policeman in My Tho, told him to put in an application with the police
force, which he did (00:05:51:00)
When he was attending high school, Nguyen had his first opportunity to vote, which he
did for Ngo Dinh Diem (00:06:34:00)
o After the election of Diem, social life in the country was very good; everyone had
easy lives to lead and things were good (00:06:48:00)
�o Nguyen only knew a little about the communist efforts in South Vietnam, mostly
because he was not interested in the political issues; he does remember one group,
the South Vietnamese Liberation Front, formed to fight against Diem’s
government (00:07:28:00)
Nguyen remembers being told the group was directed by communists from
North Vietnam (00:07:57:00)
o Before he joined the police, Nguyen knew very little about the communists,
although some of his friends in the village did leave to join them (00:08:24:00)
Police Service (00:09:02:00)
When he applied to join the police, Nguyen’s uncle-in-law wrote a letter which made
joining easier for Nguyen and after turning in the application, Nguyen had an interview in
the central police headquarters in Saigon before he was hired (00:09:02:00)
o Nguyen received the first part of his police training, which he received in 1963 at
a police center in Vung Tau, consisted of learning about: law enforcement, police
administration, fire-marshal techniques, and the communists (00:09:45:00)
o The training lasted for twelve months and after the first section, the trainees
attended special courses at another police center in Saigon; the trainees also
practiced at several different police centers all over South Vietnam (00:10:33:00)
Two weeks after completing his training, Nguyen received a job offer as a police officer;
however, the job was working as a secretary (00:11:18:00)
Nguyen eventually got a job working in the My Tho police department with the special
forces before moving to the uniform police then on to police administration and the
judicial police (00:11:47:00)
o He spent four years with the special police force as a secretary and eight years
working in the other branches of the department, including time at the police
center training others (00:12:12:00)
o Nguyen spent most of his time working in an office, meaning that he did not have
a lot of contact with the communists, although there was a lot of communist
activity in the area, namely bombings at different public locations, including:
markets, schools, and shopping malls (00:12:49:00)
Nguyen finally came to the conclusion that the communists did not care
about the lives of people, they cared about defeating the Republic of
Vietnam (00:13:42:00)
In 1967, Nguyen got a job working for the judicial police in [Mokwo] (00:14:05:00)
o When he went to Mokwo, Nguyen had to take an American plane because the
Viet Cong controlled the road to Mokwo; because of the flight, Nguyen had some
contact with Americans and he found them to be very good, kind, and fervent in
their duty (00:14:21:00)
One day, Nguyen talked with a GI who had come to their office and he
describes the American as being kind and honest; the soldier had been in
college before joining the military and Nguyen viewed him as not only a
man of the United States, but as a man of the world (00:15:06:00)
Because the Vietnamese have their embassy in the United States, people have forgotten
just how bad the Viet Cong were and Nguyen believes teachers must show their students
this fact and to not let them be deceived by the Viet Cong (00:16:01:00)
�
o No one can imagine what the Viet Cong think and do because Americans are kind
and honest; Americans know very little about the Viet Cong because the door was
almost shut (00:16:43:00)
o The Vietnamese government owns the radio and television stations, as well as the
newspapers, so the news they give is not always the truth (00:17:12:00)
In 1968, during the Tet Offensive, fighting with the Viet Cong spilled over into Nguyen’s
province (00:18:39:00)
o One day, they gathered one hundred people inside the police station to fight
against the Viet Cong; during the night, Nguyen slept in a ceiling-less bunker and
during Viet Cong shells, he was nervous because he had no ceiling (00:18:52:00)
During that night, none of the shells hit anyone (00:19:35:00)
o The next day, the police officers went out of the police station and Nguyen saw
numerous Viet Cong lying in fields; however, other Viet Cong hide with the
population and the men had to search for them (00:19:58:00)
o After the offensive, Viet Cong activity in Nguyen’s region slowed down a little
but they still sent mortar rounds into town every day (00:20:51:00)
Nguyen did not get much information about the conflict in other parts of the country
because his duty was to deal with the conventional criminals in the region (00:22:16:00)
o It is hard to say whether there was more crime in South Vietnam or in the United
States because the United States is so large with a large population (00:22:49:00)
o Not many crimes actually happened in Nguyen’s province (00:23:11:00)
The communists eventually defeated the South Vietnamese government because the
South Vietnamese government did not do good work for the people (00:24:01:00)
o After the Diem government collapsed, the following government was good in
working with the United States, not in managing the country (00:24:26:00)
o Nguyen figured it would take the communists two or three years to defeat the
South; in actuality, it only took a year after the withdrawal of the Americans for
the South Vietnamese government to fall (00:25:09:00)
o The South Vietnamese government could not stop the communist advance partly
because the United States cut off aid to the South Vietnamese government,
meaning the South Vietnamese did not have enough ammunition or gasoline to
continue fighting (00:25:32:00)
At the end of April 1975, the communists came to Mokwo to seize the police
headquarters and when they did so, the police officers did not fight them (00:26:35:00)
o After they took everything from the police headquarters, including: weapons,
ammunition, and money, the communists placed all the police officers in prisons,
what they called “re-education camps” (00:27:11:00)
Re-education Camp (00:27:46:00)
Nguyen was originally kept in one camp in [Veitang] and in 1976, the communists chose
to move some of the men; Nguyen was not chosen but those who were ended up going to
a camp in the North (00:27:46:00)
o From Veitang, most of the prisoners moved to another camp in [Kin Nam], where
Nguyen stayed until 1982 (00:28:12:00)
o Nguyen originally went into one small camp while other prisoners built the main
camp (00:28:54:00)
�
o While at the camp, the prisoners had to attend a discussions with the communist
leaders of the camp, who took turns teaching (00:29:09:00)
One day, the speaker said that their country was very rich in natural
resources and that all they only had to dig into the ground to find metal
sheets to put on their roofs (00:29:26:00)
Another day, the speaker told of how a North Vietnamese pilot flew into a
cloud, turned off his engine, and waited for an American plane; once he
saw an American plane, the pilot turned on the engine and rushed out to
attack the American (00:30:05:00)
The communists also tried to say that the police officers and the
government were the enemy of the people and in the classes, they
explained their reasoning for the distinction (00:31:04:00)
o Apart from police officers, there were also prisoners from the South Vietnamese
Army as well as common criminals; however, the groups were divided into teams:
the political team and the criminal team (00:32:24:00)
Neither team spent time with the other, which including having different
rooms for different teams (00:32:57:00)
Nguyen married his wife in 1971 when he worked in Veitang and when he went into
prisoner, his oldest son was two years old and his wife was pregnant with their second
child (00:33:09:00)
o When he was in prisoner, Nguyen’s house was seized by the communists and his
family was ordered to move out without any of their possessions (00:33:46:00)
o His wife eventually went to live with her mother in the city, who shared not only
her home, but also her business with (00:34:08:00)
Every day, they purchased different products, including rice and meat, and
transported to Saigon before returning with different products, such as pest
control items and chemical fertilizer (00:34:22:00)
The two women had to keep their business deals secret because if the
communists found out, they would confiscate all the products the women
had purchased (00:34:55:00)
At the time, it was difficult to make enough money to survive
(00:35:22:00)
o The officials in the area knew Nguyen had served with the former South
Vietnamese government and his wife had a hard time with the communists, in
particular, their neighbor (00:35:43:00)
When the communists came to his house in Veitang, they saw pictures of
Nguyen’s father but not a picture of Ho Chi Minh; when they ordered her
to take down the pictures of Nguyen’s father, she protested because of her
pregnancy but the communists persisted (00:36:02:00)
They persisted because Nguyen had the label of being an enemy of
the people (00:36:28:00)
While in the camps, the communists wanted the prisoners to confess that what they had
down before imprisonment was wrong (00:37:01:00)
o One day, they wanted the prisoners to write out what they had done wrong in the
past; Nguyen did write it out because what he had done was not as bad as some of
the other things (00:37:22:00)
�
The communists said that if prisoners did not tell the “truth”, their time in
the prison would be prolonged (00:38:35:00)
o The communists gave good speeches and on some occasions, Nguyen was moved
by a speech; however, the more he lived with them, the more Nguyen realized that
the communists deceived him (00:38:51:00)
At first, Nguyen and the other prisoners believed what the communists
said, but over time, they began to see things differently; what the
communists said was different from what they did (00:39:41:00)
Nguyen did have some contact with his wife while he was in the camps; after about two
years, Nguyen was able to contact his family and request supplies (00:40:07:00)
o Nguyen’s wife would send him food but never rice because if she sent rice, that
meant the government was not feeding the prisoners enough (00:40:32:00)
o The prisoners had to labor every day and they only received one and a half bowls
of rice at lunch and dinner with a little bit of meat, usually pork, or fish and
vegetables (00:41:10:00)
When he first got to the camp, the piece of pork was the size of a finger,
but over time, its size slowly decreased (00:41:38:00)
The quantity was so little that the men in the team agreed to collect all the
meat for one day, usually six pieces for the seven men, and only one
person received meat that day; the prisoner who received the team’s meat
ration rotated between the men and on their days without meat, the men
only ate rice (00:41:59:00)
However, because they received supplies from their families, the prisoners
felt better (00:42:49:00)
o The criminal prisoners never received supplies from their families, which meant
most of them died because of hunger (00:43:06:00)
The political prisoners, like Nguyen, did share some of the supplies they
received from their families with the criminal prisoners (00:43:16:00)
When in the camp, the communists took anyone who had worked in a hospital and put
them into a separate team to take care of the other prisoners (00:43:36:00)
o The prisoners had to go around the country looking for “medicine” and if anyone
got sick, then they went to this team; however, there was no medicine comparable
to the medicine available in the United States (00:43:49:00)
The political prisoners survived in large part due to the supplies they received from their
families (00:44:35:00)
When the prisoners were first arrived at the camp, the communists told the prisoners that
in three months, they would be released; however, after the three months, nothing had
happened, to which the communists said that after one year, the prisoners would be
released (00:45:09:00)
o The communists later increased the amount to three years and continued to lie to
deceive the prisoners (00:45:31:00)
One time while laboring, the prisoners were ordered to turn a twenty hectare forest into
rice fields using tools and equipment made by other prisoners (00:46:01:00)
o Once they had cut down a tree, the prisoners had to carry it on their shoulders
back to the camp, about five kilometers away (00:46:22:00)
�
o After the forest was cut down, the prisoners were ordered to dig up the roots of
the trees, which they also had to take back to the camp to use as burning material
for the prisoners (00:46:36:00)
o When the forest was completely gone, the prisoners had to prepare the soil fir the
rice and the one machine in the camp that made the process faster kept breaking,
so the men had to prepare the field by hand (00:47:04:00)
o The labor force in the camp was too large, so some of the men went to other areas
to work and earn money for the leaders of the camp (00:47:55:00)
To get to the other jobs, the prisoners had to walk through areas loyal to
the communists; when they asked for the water, the villagers told them to
get it from the wells themselves (00:48:12:00)
About two years later, when the villagers saw the prisoners in the distance,
they left food and meat on the road as a gift; the people had realized that
the communists were cruel (00:48:45:00)
The men labored and waited until their name was called in a meeting; they heard a little
about U.S. government assistance but they could not do anything (00:50:18:00)
o The prisoners were released one right after another, not as one large group; every
six months, someone else was released (00:50:51:00)
o Nguyen does not remember anything special happening when his name was
called, only being happy to hear it called (00:51:26:00)
o Before he went into the camp, Nguyen had a golden ring that the communists
took and when he asked for it back upon release, the communists said they could
not find it (00:51:37:00)
o In his release papers, the communists had written that he was born in rural village
but Nguyen knew that if he went back to the village, the communist control would
be very strict; instead, Nguyen told his wife to bride the communist officials to
change the papers so he and his family could got into the city (00:52:20:00)
Release / Immigration to the United States (00:53:07:00)
Upon his release, Nguyen lived with his wife and children in My Tho (00:53:07:00)
o Whenever Nguyen’s wife visited him in the camp, she brought the children with
her (00:53:24:00)
During the first two years after his release, Nguyen was under police control; every
month, he had to go to the police station where police officers marked his appearance in a
booklet (00:53:40:00)
o Nguyen was not allowed to travel outside the province and was expected to
participate in various public affairs, such as cleaning up the streets or working at a
collective farm, but with no pay (00:54:09:00)
o Every day, Nguyen rode a bicycle six kilometers to work with his sister planting
rice and if there were no jobs in the field, he worked with a friend repairing
bicycles (00:54:45:00)
o Nguyen worked in the public jobs every three months and each jobs lasted for
about ten days (00:55:38:00)
In one public job, Nguyen worked at a collective farm for ten days;
however, when he was supposed to go for the second section, he bribed
the leader of the farm to not have to go (00:55:47:00)
�
At the local level, the communists chose people from the area to be the officials; at the
city level and higher, the official was from the North (00:56:37:00)
According to Nguyen, the communists did nothing good for the people; the good things
they did do were for communist party members and their families (00:57:27:00)
o When building a bridge or repairing a road, the first thing the communists did was
think about how much money they would receive (00:57:40:00)
o Since the communists controlled the country, they practiced suppression of the
people; the communists did not care about the people’s happiness or their lives
(00:58:06:00)
Nguyen made his way to the United States in 1992, meaning he spent ten years under the
communist regime (00:58:40:00)
o In 1988, Nguyen heard word about a departure program organized by the U.S.
government and one of Nguyen’s friends gave an application to the U.S. embassy
in Thailand, who helped raise the funds necessary to bride the officials needed get
the friend out of the country (00:59:04:00)
o Nguyen originally could not afford to bribe the officials but in 1990, he borrowed
enough money from a friend to get his application to go through, which took
another two years to complete (00:59:38:00)
o Paying officials is a custom in Vietnam; to get anything to go through, a person
had to pay an official and if a person did not pay, then their paperwork would not
go through (01:00:50:00)
The need to pay officials was not as serious under the former South
Vietnamese government as it was under the communists because the South
Vietnamese had the law; if a bad thing happened, then the law could detect
it, whereas, under the communists, the law did not matter (01:01:21:00)
The different officials tried to protect one another (01:01:48:00)
o At the time, Nguyen did not have to hide any of his activities because it had
become normal for everyone (01:02:28:00)
When they first prepared to leave, Nguyen and his family got on a plane for Thailand and
from Thailand, they went to the United States, specifically, Michigan (01:03:01:00)
o The family went to Michigan because in Vietnam, Nguyen had a friend who’s
daughter lived in Grand Rapids and she sponsored the family to move to
Michigan (01:03:26:00)
o Nguyen and his family had some challenges when they first arrived in the United
States but they were not too big because Nguyen knew how to speak English;
moreover, Americans were always patient and willing to help the family
(01:04:01:00)
o Nguyen did manage to find a job, although at the time, there were not many jobs
available; he found a job working in a school helping other Vietnamese
(01:04:34:00)
o After working in the schools, Nguyen did some manual labor; Nguyen’s wife also
got a job after a year (01:05:26:00)
Nguyen and his family tried to lead honest lives because they were
thankful to the U.S. government and the American people (01:05:57:00)
o When the family first arrived in the United States, there was already a Vietnamese
community in Grand Rapids, so they helped the family (01:06:22:00)
�
Nguyen spent ten difficult years under the communists and those years made him want to
leave the country; he and his family were poor and they did not have enough money to
live their lives (01:07:04:00)
o Nguyen’s children were not allowed to go to the university except for the
agricultural college; the communists did not want them to leave the town so they
could easily Nguyen (01:07:28:00)
o On the other hand, in the United States, Nguyen’s children could go to any
college they wanted to and the family had freedoms (01:08:12:00)
Nguyen suggests that if anyone wants to visit a communist Asian country, be it China or
Vietnam, then that person should not just stay in the city; they should go into the villages
and the heartlands because then they can hear what the people have to say (01:09:18:00)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
NguyenT
Title
A name given to the resource
Nguyen, Trinh (Interview outline and video), 2009
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Nguyen, Trinh
Description
An account of the resource
Trinh Nguyen was born in a rural village in the Mekong Delta of South Vietnam. After attending a school at a French military outpost, Nguyen went traveled to Saigon to go to college. After a single year of dentistry schooling, Nguyen joined the South Vietnamese police force, where he worked through the entirety of the Vietnam War. Following the Northern victory, the communists gathered all former employees of the South Vietnamese government, including Nguyen, and placed them in re-education camps. In reality, the camps were nothing more than prisons. Nguyen stayed in the camp until 1982 before his release and he and his family stayed in Vietnam until 1992, when they immigrated to the United States.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975-Personal narratives, American
Vietnam War, 1961-1975-Personal narratives, Vietnamese
Other veterans & civilians-Personal narratives, American
Other veterans & civilians-Personal narratives, Vietnamese
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2009-12-03
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1a9a43de76ed919b26006dd1690dd057.mp4
65f976eec609047647227ddbf438a3af
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/db032cda3f93d6a3f278ef3d20d56b85.pdf
29f801eaf07616010d37c575441ef742
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Gary Mitchell.
(1:34:32)
Introduction (0:00)
U.S. Marine pilot during the Korean War. (21:28)
Born In Wolf River,, Wisconsin. (00:27)
He was a Colonel and retired as a Lieutenant Colonel. (1:49)
Served from 1951 until 1959. (1:58)
Because his aircraft was shot down he was a prisoner of war for 10 months in the People's
Republic of China. (2:19)
Has received a Purple Heart, the Bronze Star and the POW award. (2:45)
Background Information (3:15)
Born September 4th 1945 [1934?] in Wolf River, Wisconsin. (3:15)
His father was a cook in logging camps. His mother was employed along with him. (3:38)
He had one sister and one brother, however the brother passed away young. (4:00)
(5:00)
He attended high school in Bruce Wisconsin. (5:11)
He left high school in 1951.(7:10)
He went into the Marine Corps in October of 1951. (7:23)
He had lasting friends in high school but since many have passed away. (7:36)
His father worked as a cook in logging camps from age 17 almost to his death. (8:25)
He commonly spent time with the lumberjacks while in the camp and learned much about the
European cultures each group came from. (10:25)
He worked for a logging company while in high school. Here he preformed many tasks, mostly
he helped with trimming the trees. (11:02)
He did some sharpening of tools such as saws and axes. (14:00)
There was a blacksmith at the camp. (15:08)
When he was nine he started trapping and he started his own trap line. (15:25)
He had a timber wolf that he had trained. (16:50)
While on his trap line he found abandoned bear cubs. He cared for them for 4 months. (18:00)
A badger tried stealing food while he was trapping and his timber wolf attacked it. (20:09)
In the spring he and the loggers would also collect maple sap. (21:00)
He completed high school through the Marine Corp. (23:47)
He never attended college. (24:35)
He enlisted in the Marine Corps at age 17 in 1952 [1951?]. He was then sent off to basic training.
(25:07)
Basic training (25:19)
He first attended basic at the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in San Diego California (25:37)
�
Basic lasted at the most 5 months. (26:08)
He remembers other disliking his drill instructors but he didn’t mind them. (26:28)
The training in basic was brutal. (26:44)
His platoon had approx. 38 men from all over the U.S. Of which, he was the youngest. (27:25)
Next he was sent to flight training at Cherry Point, North Carolina. (28:32)
He was taken as a pilot because the Marine Corps was in need of men to fly aircraft. (29:15)
He had a pilot’s license prior to entering the service. He received this private training in
Wisconsin. (29:20)
He flew primarily jets. (30:00)
He flew a J3 Cub once in his private training but did not like it. (30:18)
He did his private training in a 2 seat Cessna 140. (31:07)
He then trained in Pensacola Florida. (31:57)
He stayed at Cherry Point, North Carolina, on 3 different occasions. The first being for 1 year the
next being for 1.5 years and the third time being for 2.5 years. (32:10)
He did his military training in F3D, the Corsair, and the AT6. (32:52)
He was a Master Sergeant when he started flight training in approx 1952, 1953 and ended as a
Second Lieutenant. (34:18)
In Pensacola, Florida, he had his most strenuous training learning aerial maneuvers. He trained
in the F3D Sky Knight twin Jet. (35:15)
The training he underwent was accelerated. As a young soldier, trainers were nervous about his
performance. (36:53)]
When he was deployed in Korea he was there for 4 days before making his first flight. He was
sent as an individual not as a unit. (37:55)
Service in the Korean Conflict (38:00)
Once in Korea he was placed in a Squadron VF 62 part of the First Marine Air Wing. (38:37)
VF 62 was based K6 south of Seoul, Korea. (39:43)
There were many aircraft station at K6 including prop planes. (41:09)
There were approx. 300 men stationed at K6. It was mostly Marines but there were some Army
Air Corps on the base. (42:36)
Some maintenance was also prepared on K6. (43:02)
The men drank sleep and flew. The man could be called to fly a plane at any minute and as a
result where often on guard. (43:30)
The building had about 3 hangers. Some men stayed in tents. (43:50)
The food was good and always available. (44:16)
His job was to fly the F3D Sky Knight specifically. (44:45)
The F3D Sky Knight sat 2 men. The man on the left worked radar and guidance. The man on the
right flew the aircraft. (45:02)
Though he loved the aircraft, it was full of many kinks when it was received. (45:30)
He flew 2-3 missions a day. (46:43)
The missions where “seek, hunt, and kill.” (47:10)
The plane was equipped with machine guns in the wing, napalm bombes, and sidewinder
rockets. (47:38)
The missions varied in length depending on task or gas in the airplane’s tank. 2 hours at the
most. (48:41)
The average pilot was in his 20s or 30s. (49:40)
�Missing in Action and Imprisonment (1953-1954)(50:16)
He flew along the shore and locked on to an enemy aircraft below him. A rocket was fired and
hit the enemy air craft. (50:29)
5 minutes after heading out to sea both engines burned out. He and his copilot had to bail out in
the ocean. (51:00)
When the men hit the water they both broke their knees. (51:21)
The men had vests on but the water was very cold. He was picked up by the Chinese the next
morning. (52:14)
He was in the ocean north of North Korea. (53:07)
After arriving on shore the men where beaten by the Chinese. (53:21)
He was placed in a camp with 200 Americans. The men had no clothes and were rarely fed. Men
died every day. His copilot was beaten and stabbed often. (53:40)
The Chinese wanted to know all they could about his aircraft. When the copilot was unwilling to
tell them anything, he was bayoneted. (54:53)
There was a name for the prison camp he was in but he tried to block out as much as he could
about it. (55:14)
He was in the prison camp for approx. 1 year. He was released near the end of the war. (55:44)
When the war was ended the he was released. With his knees broken he had to push himself
with his hands to the signing of the peace papers on a bridge. (56:02)
At the time of his release some men beat him once again. But several of his commanding
officers at the sighing shot them with a Thompson submachine gun. (57:14)
Recovery and service in the U.S. (58:00)
He was in hospitals for 2 years in order to recover from his imprisonment (1954-1956). His legs
never fully recovered. (58:18)
Being unable to walk, he was sent back to the states and stayed in 4-5 Marine Hospitals (58:55)
From his torture, a thin rod was placed through his chest. Men were hesitant to remove it
because they may have killed him. (59:26)
The rod was removed in California. He was awake when the surgery was done. This almost killed
him. (1:00:20)
He had his surgery done at a naval hospital in Southern California for almost a year for
rehabilitation. (1:20:37)
After being rehabilitated he was placed back on duty and was moved around from different
Marine and Navy bases. (1:04:05)
Much of the things about imprisonment and POW camps were kept from incoming soldiers.
However he wanted to tell new soldiers what could happen and what to do and not do if it did
happen. (1:04:27)
He came down with Meniere’s disease when he was taken of active duty. (1:04:53)
He was discharged in 1960 at Cherry Point, North Carolina. (1:05:48
After being rehabilitated he did not do very much retraining in new aircraft. He mostly did
ground instruction on weapons system. Most of this was done at Cherry Point. (1:06:33)
At the end of his imprisonment in China, all 200 men he was imprisoned with had been killed. [?]
(1:08:35)
Life after discharge (1:09:00)
�
He still struggles psychologically from his imprisonment. (1:09:12)
He was planning on having a full military career. He was still called back after retiring to talk to
new recruits about POW camps. (1:09:55)
10 months after his discharge he received a call from Bill Lear. He requested aid to build an
aircraft for the military. The plane was a twin engine Cessna. (1:10:45)
12 months later the plane was finished. He said that Gary was to be the first to fly it. (1:12:29)
He aided in the mass production of this air craft. (1:13:14)
The aircraft Bill Lear had him fly was modified to be flown without the use of legs. (1:14:00)
The planes where then shipped to Hawaii for test flights. The aircraft were placed on an old
World War II runway where he and Bill Lear could practice flying. (1:14:40)
42 of these planes were produced, all of which were sold to the military. (1:16:42)
Gary was then assigned to train men in a factory that Bill Lear owned. (1:17:08)
When he worked at the gyro factory he found that men were taking stickers off of gyros that
recognized them as dysfunctional for a functional one. The men who did this went to prison for
12 months. (1:18:16)
He was then contacted by Don Bowman and asked to assist in marketing for Canadian Lakes.
(1:20:10)
He worked there for about 10 years. He started in the mid 60s and ended in the mid 70s.
(1:21:56)
He then began working in sales. (1:23:31)
He designed a new wheel chair for a woman who was pregnant and in a wheel chair. (1:24:05)
He was with a woman, Linda, and was with her for 8 years. They did not have any children.
(1:25:21)
He didn’t join a veterans organization till late in his life, however, he was asked to speak to them
on many occasions. (1:26:05)
He did not go back to school on the GI bill. (1:26:58)
His friends have all moved out west or died that he made in the service. (1:27:20)
He feels guilty that all the people in the camp died because he didn’t talk when interrogated.
(1:28:47)
The men who are in the Legion have helped him cope with his emotional distress. (1:29:29)
He has 3 grandsons who are serving in the Marine Corps. (1:30:28)
He doesn’t believe that the conflict his sons are fighting in is necessary. (1:30:55)
He had 5 children and 13 grand children. (1:31:01)
He was served at the clinic for 4 years. (1:31:40)
Sarah, the commandant at the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans in 2011was much appreciated
by Gary. (1:32:07)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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MitchellG1292V
Title
A name given to the resource
Mitchell, Gary (Interview outline and video), 2011
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Mitchell, Gary
Description
An account of the resource
Gary Mitchell, of Wolf River Wisconsin, enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1951 at the age of 17. Despite his age, he was able to train as a pilot due to a shortage of combat pilots. Sent to Korea in 1952, he flew multiple combat missions over enemy territory before mechanical problems forced him to bail out off the North Korean coast. He and his copilot were picked up by the Chinese, who regularly beat them in an effort to gain information about their aircraft. He was released at Panmunjon at the time of the signing of the armistice, and then underwent several years of medical treatment for injuries suffered in the bailout and while in prison, and then served as an instructor on Marine and Navy bases until he was discharged in 1959.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Erichsen, Wallace (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
United States. Marine Corps
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2011-09-06
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/53a2a803fce2176f53ca487c661d842b.mp4
d3d1604d0861cfed40c5acc09c086265
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e76177ea4def18bd34b885844a2d4c28.pdf
c73007aafd78b61e31a42d42ca964415
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Vietnam War
Luc Nguyen
Interview Length: (00:57:26:00)
Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:18:00)
Nguyen’s father originally lived in the northern part of Vietnam but following the
August Revolution in 1955, he had to move to the southern part of Vietnam because he
was a member of the Nationalist Party; many of Nguyen’s father’s comrades within the
party were captured and killed by communists (00:00:18:00)
o When he moved south, Nguyen’s father moved to Saigon, where he met and
married Ngueyn’s mother (00:01:04:00)
o In 1948, Nguyen’s father became a member of the Vietnamese National Army,
which was a newly-established army (00:01:48:00)
At the time, the French Army still remained in Vietnam and assisted in
training the soldiers in the Vietnamese National Army (00:01:49:00)
o Nguyen's father received his discharge from the Army in 1954 (00:02:01:00)
After Vietnam divided into two states, Nguyen’s father worked to bring his family from
North Vietnam into South Vietnam with his Army unit (00:02:19:00)
o Still, it was a relatively peacefully time, so Nguyen’s father was given his
discharge from the Army to become a farmer, although he had to rent the land he
worked on (00:02:37:00)
Nguyen grew up on the farms where his father worked, growing rice (00:02:53:00)
o Growing up, Nguyen attended public schools from elementary until high school
before studying mathematics and general physics at the University of Saigon in
1966 (00:03:50:00)
At the time, Nguyen and his father supported President Diem but after Diem died,
Nguyen and his father no longer supported the military government; therefore, in 1966,
Nguyen did not have a desire to join the South Vietnamese military because he did not
respect the generals leading the Army (00:04:23:00)
At that time, Nguyen and his family knew that the international communists wanted to
promote Communism all over the world (00:05:30:00)
o Through his relatives who had escaped from the North, Nguyen knew about the
Viet Minh; as well, his mother was originally from the Mekong Delta area and
when Nguyen’s family would visit his mother’s family, they would see
communists in the Delta who were very brutal (00:05:47:00)
The communists in the Delta made everyone fear them; if someone did not
fear them, then the communists would visit the person at night and would
either kill or capture the person (00:06:11:00)
During 1966 and 1967, Nguyen was in Saigon, so he saw many American soldiers there
and although he did not like their presence in his country, Nguyen knew that the South
Vietnamese needed the soldiers there (00:06:55:00)
o Still, the Americans soldiers treated the local Vietnamese very well (00:07:29:00)
�
During the North Vietnamese’s Tet Offensive in 1968, Nguyen witnessed a lot of fires
and smoke all over the city as well as dead North Vietnamese soldiers laying on the
ground (00:07:48:00)
o At night, the North Vietnamese would launch rockets into the city, destroying
buildings and houses, as well as killing a lot of people (00:08:20:00)
o Nguyen felt bad about this and it helped him decided to enlist in the South
Vietnamese Army (00:08:30:00)
However, Nguyen was allowed to keep going to school because he was
the only son in his family and his parents were both over sixty years of age
(00:08:44:00)
After he enlisted, Nguyen spent four years at the National Military Academy, which was
divided between two “seasons”; during the nine month “study season”, Nguyen he
learned mathematics, science, military technology, and history while during the two-anda-half “military season”, Nguyen trained in military combat (00:09:05:00)
o Most of the schedule used at the Academy was borrowed from the American’s
West Point Military Academy and there were numerous American advisors at the
Academy who came from both West Point and the Naval Academy in Annapolis,
Maryland (00:10:06:00)
o Although combat turned out to be different from what Nguyen was taught at the
Academy, basic things were still the same (00:10:36:00)
Some Vietnamese Army officers had been in combat and they taught the
students at the Academy (00:10:50:00)
Deployment (00:11:06:00)
Nguyen completed his studies at the National Military Academy and joined the Army as
another major North Vietnamese offensive was beginning to wind down; Nguyen ended
up taking part in only a single battle from the offensive (00:11:06:00)
At first, Nguyen was assigned to be a reconnaissance platoon leader in a scout company
in the 25th Infantry Division (00:12:00:00)
o Within Nguyen’s platoon, there were three teams who would be dropped in the
jungle to look for the enemy and gather information about them (00:12:30:00)
The first time Nguyen was in combat, the province where the fighting took place was
largely jungle and when Nguyen and his soldiers went into the area, they were scared
because a large communist unit was the area (00:12:59:00)
o Fortunately, Nguyen and his soldiers did not find the communist unit and the
communist unit did not find Nguyen and his soldiers (00:13:22:00)
o Sometimes, Nguyen and his soldiers deployed by helicopter but most of the time,
they had to walk into an area because after the Paris Treaty, the war slowed down
(00:13:36:00)
In the beginning of 1974, Nguyen became the commander of an infantry company in 2nd
Battalion, 46th Brigade, although it was still in the 25th Infantry (00:14:13:00)
o A standard infantry company was supposed to have one hundred and sixty-one
members but a scout company had one hundred and twenty-seven members; when
Nguyen joined his new infantry company in 1974, the company had a full
complement of soldiers (00:14:41:00)
�
o However, the fighting Nguyen faced with the infantry company was different than
what he experienced with the scout company; with the infantry company, they
were fighting against much larger enemy units (00:15:08:00)
In the scout company, the soldiers were just looking for intelligence about
the enemy (00:15:22:00)
On some occasions, the scout company was placed into situations where it required the
entire company and Nguyen remembers on one occasion in January 1974, the company
was in a camp when the enemy brought an entire regiment to attack them (00:15:57:00)
o Nguyen was wounded for the first time during this fighting (00:16:38:00)
o During the battle, another South Vietnamese unit reinforced the scout company,
which was fighting the entire enemy regiment by itself (00:16:57:00)
o By this time, the South Vietnamese were not receiving any air or artillery support
from the Americans, who had left; when he came out of the field, Nguyen saw
that all the American support was gone (00:17:14:00)
Nguyen only saw a B-52 bombardment two or three times but that was the
extent of it (00:17:28:00)
Nevertheless, Nguyen managed to receive support from South Vietnamese
units, who had taken over the roles of the Americans (00:17:45:00)
Most of the soldiers within Nguyen’s units were from all over South Vietnam, although
there were a few from the North (00:18:05:00)
o The ages of the soldiers range from eighteen year olds to soldiers who were in
their thirties (00:18:32:00)
o Only a few of the soldiers actually wanted to be in the Army but because it was
war time, all the soldiers needed to be in the military (00:18:51:00)
Nguyen’s soldiers did have contact with local Vietnamese civilians but in the three years
he was in combat, Nguyen and his units very rarely went back to a base; when he was
commander of the infantry company, Nguyen returned to base one time to check on
supplies for the company (00:19:14:00)
Around the time Nguyen took command of his infantry company, the communists began
increasing their attacks, forcing Nguyen’s soldiers to fight all the time (00:20:20:00)
o Nguyen remembers that in one year, he and his soldiers went on between ten and
twenty individual combat operations, which was a high number (00:20:39:00)
o However, not too many of Nguyen’s soldiers became casualties; Nguyen recalls
that around twenty of his soldiers were casualties (00:21:24:00)
One time, when three soldiers were killed, it was considered a large
number of casualties (00:21:37:00)
o While Nguyen was in command of the company, the fighting varied; sometimes,
the communists would attack Nguyen’s company and sometimes, Nguyen’s
company would look for the enemy (00:21:56:00)
o The enemy soldiers were armed with Kalashnikov rifles, grenade launchers, 107
mm and 122 mm rocket launchers, and 130 mm howitzers; the enemy had an
entire artillery regiment of howitzers (00:22:06:00)
On the other hand, Nguyen believes that his soldiers had better weapons
than the enemy soldiers; as well, Nguyen’s soldiers also had more
ammunition than the enemy (00:22:44:00)
�
However, after the Paris Treaty, the American military aid was
reduced, forcing Nguyen and his soldiers to conserve every bullet
and every piece of equipment (00:23:17:00)
When the enemy launched their final offensive, they had upgrade their
weaponry to include SAMs (Surface-to-Air Missiles) and TOWs (AntiTank missiles) (00:24:01:00)
Although Nguyen and his soldiers also had access to TOW
missiles, they did not use them because the missiles were too
expensive; on the other hand, the enemy were able use TOWs
everywhere and not just against tanks but also against South
Vietnamese soldiers (00:24:24:00)
o On some occasions, Nguyen and his soldiers worked with South Vietnamese
armored forces and in June 1974, when the enemy launched an attack, Nguyen’s
larger unit included a company of ten armored vehicles (00:24:49:00)
However, the armored vehicles were only able to stay in one location
because the soldiers did not have the fuel necessary to move them to
different locations (00:25:33:00)
o At one point, the North Vietnamese occupied the 22nd National Highway and
although Nguyen does not know the exact number of North Vietnamese units that
were there, it took his entire battalion to re-open the highway (00:26:24:00)
During the re-taking of the highway, Nguyen’s company was designated a
ten kilometer section of the highway and the soldiers had to fight the
North Vietnamese forces in that section (00:26:43:00)
The land on both sides of the highway was largely rubber plantations and
Nguyen and his soldiers had to fight the North Vietnamese positioned in
the plantations (00:27:02:00)
o During this time, the soldiers in Nguyen’s company did their jobs well; all the
soldiers knew that they had to fight because if they did not fight, then they were
going to die (00:27:31:00)
Although a few soldiers did desert from the unit, the vast majority stayed
to fight (00:27:55:00)
o During the fighting, Nguyen did not know what was going on in the other parts of
the country because he did not have access to newspapers or radios (00:28:23:00)
o On several occasions, superior officers visited Nguyen’s unit to relay orders, after
which Nguyen would have to address his soldiers about what they needed to do
(00:28:48:00)
o In this period, the soldiers had some supplies, but not a lot; their food supplies
consisted of a small amount of dried food, so the soldiers had to cook rice
(00:29:31:00)
The first time he was wounded, Nguyen’s unit was in a base that came under a mortar
attack; when he stood to guide his own 82 mm mortars, an enemy mortar round exploded
behind him, sending two pieces of shrapnel into Nguyen (00:30:19:00)
o However, the shrapnel wounds were minor injuries and Nguyen returned to his
unit rather quickly (00:31:06:00)
When the North Vietnamese launched their final major offensive in 1975, Nguyen had
just led his company in the re-taking of the 22nd National Highway (00:31:32:00)
�o However, Nguyen himself was in the hospital because a wound sustained from a
rocket launched out of Cambodia (00:31:54:00)
As Nguyen was standing, he heard the sound of the rocket approaching, so
he laid down and the rocket exploded about ten meters away from where
Nguyen laid (00:32:08:00)
Although Nguyen laid down, his helmet was still high and debris from the
explosion hit Nguyen’s helmet, breaking the helmet and knocking Nguyen
unconscious; Nguyen also received a shoulder injury but the injury was
not as serious (00:32:21:00)
o Nguyen spent more than a month in the hospital going through surgery for the
injuries to his head; only a small piece of shrapnel went into his head but another
piece went into Nguyen’s ear (00:32:56:00)
Nguyen stayed at the hospital and waited to go in front of the medical
committee, who would decide whether or not he could return to combat
(00:33:30:00)
When the war ended, Nguyen was still in the hospital (00:33:50:00)
Post-War Life / Reflections (00:34:05:00)
When the war ended, Nguyen went home because when the communists came to the
hospital where Nguyen was staying, they ordered everyone to leave; Nguyen saw
wounded soldiers wrapped in badges unconsciously riding in a pedal-taxi (00:34:05:00)
o While in the hospital, Nguyen overheard a conversation that the communists
could kill anybody who could not get out of the hospital (00:34:34:00)
o Once out of the hospital, Nguyen went home to see his family and going to the
Mekong Delta to see his mother, which was where the communists captured him
and placed him into a re-education camp (00:34:56:00)
When Nguyen first left the hospital, the communists knew who he was but
they did not care at that time (00:35:29:00)
The communists arrested Nguyen because at that time, if Nguyen had
stayed home until June, he would have been fine but because it was in
May, he did not have to proper paperwork (00:35:38:00)
Everyone who was a former South Vietnamese soldier was captured by
the communists if he tried to go somewhere (00:36:19:00)
When the communists first captured Nguyen, they brought him a camp along the Mekong
River, where Nguyen stayed for eleven months; while in the camp, Nguyen and the
others received an education about communism and were also labeled as “betrayers” and
“American servants” (00:36:43:00)
o The communists also wanted Nguyen to confess to something criminal that he had
done but what Nguyen and the others described was not criminal, so the
communists did not believe them (00:37:43:00)
o After eleven months, Nguyen and the others were moved to another camp and at
the new camp, Nguyen had to work (00:38:10:00)
Although Nguyen mostly dug canals, some of the prisoners had to clear
mines while others had to build barracks and get supplies for the
communist forces (00:38:35:00)
�
o While in the camps, the prisoners did not have enough food and the did not
receive any medical care from the communists; however, the prisoners were able
to grow a few vegetables alongside their barracks (00:39:17:00)
In 1977, Nguyen’s family was able to begin visiting him and when they
visited every three months, Nguyen’s family brought food with them for
Nguyen (00:39:49:00)
Nguyen had married in 1973 and he and his wife had a daughter;
while Nguyen was in the re-education camp, his wife lived with
her family (00:40:04:00)
o In the second camp Nguyen was sent to, the prisoner population included not only
soldiers but regular criminals and political prisoners as well; the regular criminals
were treated differently than the soldiers and political prisoners (00:41:03:00)
The former soldiers helped each other but the regular criminals did not
have help from anyone (00:41:27:00)
o While out on the work projects for the camp, Nguyen rarely had contact with the
civilian population in an area; although Nguyen saw the civilians, the communists
did not allow the prisoners to have contact with the civilians (00:42:13:00)
Nguyen remembers when he and the other prisoners moved from one
camp to another in the back of a truck, someone rode alongside the truck
on a motorbicycle asking where the prisoners had come and where they
were going, as well as throwing some food for the prisoners (00:42:47:00)
o Nguyen was finally released from the prisoners in February 1982, almost seven
years after he was first captured (00:43:43:00)
Nguyen believes the reason the communists released him was form
international pressure; at some point, Nguyen heard about the negotiations
between the United States and Vietnam over the prisoners (00:43:59:00)
After he was released from prisoners, it was almost another eight years until Nguyen
immigrated to the United States (00:44:26:00)
o During those eight years, Nguyen continued living with his family and working in
various jobs, including producing clothing and rubber bands (00:44:34:00)
o After Nguyen was initially released, local officials made trouble for him because
they knew he was a political prisoner; however, Nguyen’s wife bribed the
officials, making Nguyen’s life easier (00:45:07:00)
o The products Nguyen and his family produced were legal but when they wanted
to sell them, it was illegal because they could only sell their products to the
government; however, there was no profit in selling to the government, so they
tried to sell them on their own (00:45:33:00)
However, if the government caught them trying to sell the products, then
the government could confiscate all the products (00:45:34:00)
o During this time, it was hard for Nguyen and his family to survive than before the
communists came (00:46:54:00)
In 1985, Nguyen’s uncle who lived in the United States sent Nguyen a letter, letting
Nguyen know about the negotiation between the United States and Vietnam and
expressing hope that Nguyen and his family would immigrate to the United States, with
Nguyen’s uncle as their sponsor (00:47:07:00)
o Nguyen finally left Vietnam in February 1993 (00:47:38:00)
�
o When Nguyen tried to emigrate, officials from the Vietnamese government
required Nguyen to fill out paperwork as well as pay some money, although
Nguyen does not remember the amount; before Nguyen’s family even got an
interview, they had to spend money (00:48:07:00)
o Once Nguyen left Vietnam, he flew directly to Michigan because his uncle was
living in Michigan (00:48:55:00)
While in high school and in the prison camp, Nguyen learned some
English, although he did not study any English while at the military
academy (00:49:17:00)
When Nguyen immigrated to the United States, he brought five members
of his family: himself, his wife, his daughter, and two sons (00:49:48:00)
After about five months in the United States, Nguyen managed to get a job
working as a lathe machine operator (00:50:01:00)
o In Nguyen’s mind, the most important thing he had to do was support his children
and help them to become good citizens, so he helped send them to college, with
one in medical school and one in law school (00:50:41:00)
o The most difficult thing for Nguyen to learn in the United States was what to say
because some Americans spoke too fast for him and then he had to take time to
try and understand what they had said (00:51:23:00)
o When he arrived in the United States, Nguyen saw that the Americans were goodhearted and they helped Nguyen and his family when they arrived (00:51:52:00)
If given the opportunity, Nguyen would return to Vietnam to visit but so long as the
communists are there, he would never go back (00:52:10:00)
The experience that Nguyen always remembers the most about his time as a soldier was
the battle of Thai Neigh (00:52:55:00)
o During the fighting, the North Vietnamese sent two divisions, including artillery
and armored units but the South Vietnamese only had a single brigade and two
local battalions in the town (00:53:11:00)
o The battle lasted for ten days and although the fighting was very hard for the
South Vietnamese soldiers, they were successful in their defense of the city
(00:53:45:00)
o In this battle alone, Nguyen saw that at least one hundred North Vietnamese
soldiers died (00:54:13:00)
o After the ten days, the North Vietnamese forces withdrew and the South
Vietnamese intelligence let the soldiers know that a North Vietnamese general
had been killed in the fighting, which caused the withdrawal (00:54:34:00)
Nguyen wants it to be known that the Vietnamese appreciated the assistance provided by
the Americans during the war (00:56:15:00)
o However, Nguyen also feels that the decision by the Kennedy Administration to
remove President Diem led to the collapse of the South Vietnamese (00:56:28:00)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
NguyenL
Title
A name given to the resource
Nguyen, Luc (Interview outline and video), 2010
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Nguyen, Luc
Description
An account of the resource
Luc Nguyen's father escaped from North Vietnam when he was a young man and following his service in the South Vietnamese Army (ARVN), became a farmer. Nguyen himself grew up on the farms where his father worked before attending the University of Saigon. Having witnessed things during the 1968 Tet Offensive, Nguyen decided to enlist and spent several years at the National Military Academy. Once he completed his time at the academy, Nguyen became a platoon leader in a scout company before taking command of his own infantry company. Eventually, during the North Vietnamese Army's final offensive, Nguyen received wounds from a rocket explosion and while he was in the hospital, the war ended. After the war, Nguyen spent several years in re-education camps before his release. Following his release, Nguyen and his family spent several years in Vietnam before immigrating to the United States in 1993.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, Vietnamese
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, Vietnamese
Vietnam (Republic)
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2010-01-22
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ca09c852ea75abc87d53c685085ffd83.mp4
e229210d7d5b1d1f32f2c5bc7b9effa0
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5089889f044272d52aba94100cbff991.pdf
b30b2deb4be8808396e689da948c4947
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Joseph Mitch
(48:46)
(00:20) Background Information
•
•
•
•
•
•
Joseph was born in Pennsylvania in 1919
His father was a coal miner and his mother stayed at home
Joseph finished school through the third grade
After that he sold scrap metal that he had found on the streets
He eventually became a loan shark and made 25% interest
He also made money betting on games
(2:45) The Army
•
•
•
Joseph was drafted into the Army in 1941
They almost rejected him because of his low IQ
He trained at Camp Polk, Louisiana; they did not like Northerners there and were pretty
prejudiced
(5:30) Training
•
•
•
They did a lot of training out in the desert
They did not have to march around in camps
He worked on tank destroyers
(8:00) Loan Sharking
•
•
•
•
Many enlisted men borrowed from him and he made tons of money
The other officers thought he was just a “flunkie”
Joseph can’t read but he has a very good memory
The food in the service was not very good
(10:15) England
•
•
•
•
He went before the invasion, in 1942 and was there for 3 or 4 years
Joseph never got seasick while traveling on the ocean liner with convoys
They did not communicate much with the British military
On his time of he would visit London and they had a lot of nice shops
�(16:50) Combat
•
•
•
•
They got involved in combat right away
The hedge rows were hard to fight in
His tank destroyer was never hit
Joseph also helped infantry in Normandy
(19:50) France
• He said that the French were happy to see them
• They did not experience much combat while traveling through France
• They did have to fight in some forests
• There was lots of battle damage in France
(26:15) Germany
• There the people were strong and tough to deal with
• Joseph was able to learn quite a bit of German
• They traveled to the far East of Germany
• He was still in Germany when the war was over
(31:45) The End of the War
• Joseph was surprised when he heard that the war was over
• He was in Europe when Japan was bombed
• Many men thought they would have to go on to Japan
(33:30) The End of his Service
• Joseph was still a loan shark after the war
• He bought a house in Pennsylvania
• He did not get married until 1947
• Lots of people did not like him because of his occupation and how well off it made him
• The Army did not affect his life very much afterwards
(39:00) The Battalion
• Joseph worked with all the same men for the whole period that he was in the service
• Most of them were Northerners and discriminated against by those from the South
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
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1914-
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
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Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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MitchJ
Title
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Mitch, Joseph (Interview outline and video), 2007
Creator
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Mitch, Joseph
Description
An account of the resource
Joseph Mitch was born in Pennsylvania in 1919 and drafted into the Army in 1941. He had gone to school only through the third grade, and never learned to read. Because of his illiteracy, he scored poorly on aptitude tests, and the Army almost did not take him because of his low IQ. Before being drafted, Joseph had made money as a loan shark, and he continued to do so through the service and afterwards. Mitch traveled to England, Germany, and France where he served in a Tank Destroyer battalion in the 3rd Armored Division, and was discharged in 1946.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Video recordings
Language
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eng
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2007-10-30
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
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application/pdf
video/mp4
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a7c610cf497638645ae7457fa07374f7.mp4
e59bfcecdcb11e9c44c11c7a6021f193
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5536496fa9d2097758f45d71d5555b3c.pdf
8d59a08713f1ca451dfd90e5ea6f3298
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
Will Miner
East Africa / Somalia
Interview Length: (01:17:52:00)
Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:15:00)
Miner was born Lennon, Michigan, a small town outside of Flint, Michigan, in 1973 and
his family stayed in Lennon until Miner was three before moving to a farm northeast of
Flint (00:00:15:00)
o The Miner’s farm was forty acres, although the family worked an additional onehundred-and-twenty acres belong to Miner’s grandparents and some family
friends (00:00:38:00)
For the most part, the Miners grew: hay, grain, and corn, as well as had
pasture for cattle (00:00:49:00)
o Apart from the farm, Miner’s father worked for Buick and his mother worked for
the country library (00:00:58:00)
Miner attended a small high school northwest of Lapeer, Michigan called Lakeville High
School, which took students from three small towns in the area (00:01:15:00)
o After graduating from high school, Miner attended Grand Valley State University
for a year; he had initially planned on joining the Marines but the Gulf War was
going on at that point and his mother convinced him to wait a year before
enlisting and to try out college (00:01:34:00)
Miner had decided that he wanted to join the Marines when he was young,
around six or seven years old (00:01:55:00)
Most everyone in Miner’s family had served in the military, either
the Army or Marines, so Miner kind of knew he would serve as
well; Miner’s father was the only person in Miner’s family not to
served (00:02:01:00)
As the Gulf War was going on, Miner closely followed what was
happening; by that point, Miner had done a lot of study of military history
and contemporary military tactics (00:02:27:00)
Based on his own background knowledge, even Miner was
surprised as to how fast the Gulf War went; Miner had used the
Arab-Israeli wars as comparison but even those were slow in
comparison to the Gulf War (00:02:53:00)
By late spring / early summer of 1992, Miner had met a girl while at Grand Valley State
and they had discussed marriage, which Miner could afford to do if he enlisted in the
Marines; Miner went to talk with a recruiter, who set everything up for Miner to officially
join in November, although Miner actually went in August (00:03:14:00)
o As far as basic training, Miner had no clue what to expect; the only thing Miner
knew when he enlisted was that he wanted to go into the infantry because he
wanted to be a reconnaissance Marine (00:03:54:00)
Prior to actually choosing the infantry, Miner’s recruiter had laid out some
other options, such as joining the air wing, which would allow Miner to
�
get a nicely paying job at an airport once his enlistment ended; however,
Miner was adamant about joining the infantry (00:04:10:00)
For training, recruits from Michigan could either go to the East Coast or the West Coast
and Miner ended up going to the West Coast, to the Marine Corps Training Depot in San
Diego, California and Camp Pendleton, further up the Pacific Coast (00:04:36:00)
o When the recruits first arrived in San Diego, the drill instructors waited until night
time to make sure Miner and the other recruits were as disoriented as possible
before they brought them to the training depot (00:04:52:00)
A couple of drill instructors met the recruits at the airport and would have
the recruits sit with their legs crossed, staring into their lap as they waited;
other people in the airport walked by and over time, Miner felt as though
he and the other recruits looked out-of-place (00:05:06:00)
Eventually, the recruits piled onto a bus and were taken to the training
depot, which was right next to the airport; once at the depot, the bus drives
around the base a couple of times, just so known of the men knew where
they were in relation to anything specific (00:05:26:00)
When the bus finally stopped, the receiving drill instructors came on,
yelling for the recruits to get off the bus and stand on the series of yellow
footprints that had been painted outside (00:05:36:00)
An initial surprise for Miner was that the first twenty-four hours of the
“training” as paperwork, including filling out the recruits’ records and
their medical history, as well as various tests (00:06:15:00)
For some of the recruits, standing in the lines was too much and
that caused them to “snap” and begin acting out (00:06:54:00)
Because the recruits came from all different parts of the country,
the instructors did not allow the men to eat or sleep, so that all the
recruits would acclimate and be on similar cycles (00:07:16:00)
After completing the paperwork, all the recruits had to strip and they were
all forced to take a shower; by then, more recruits had arrived, bring the
group total close to eighty, and all the recruits were smashed into showers
meant for only twenty (00:07:42:00)
After the showers, the recruits were taken to the barracks and allowed to
lay down for a couple of hours; it is hard to say how long the instructors
let the recruits sleep because by that point, none of the recruits even knew
what time it was (00:08:04:00)
By that point, even Miner was thinking that there was no way he
was going to get through the experience (00:08:28:00)
o During the first few days of training, Miner and the other recruits went through
more testing and received all of their equipment and supplies (00:08:40:00)
As traumatic as the initial arrival were, the drill instructors still made an
effort to ease the recruits into the training, if only to limit the culture shock
on the recruits (00:09:00:00)
It took about a week for Miner and the other recruits to get through all of
the necessary in-processing (00:09:24:00)
�
o Apart from Miner’s group of friends from the Grand Rapids area who had all
enlisted together, most of the other recruits were from west of the Mississippi
River (00:09:35:00)
Most of the recruits were around Miner’s age, although Miner himself was
considered “old” because he waited a year before enlisting; a couple of the
recruits were old than many but they were exceptions (00:10:05:00)
Male and female recruits were not trained together; at the time, the
training depot in San Diego was all male recruits and the training deport at
Parris Island, South Carolina segregated males and females (00:10:42:00)
Once the training began in earnest, the recruits fell into a sort of regular routine, which
somewhat surprised Miner (00:11:07:00)
o The training was divided into the three phases: (00:11:09:00)
During the first phase, the recruits learned a variety of things, such as how
to march properly and also spent a lot of time in classrooms, learning
about the various wars and battles the Marines had fought in, the different
laws of combat, etc. (00:11:15:00)
During the second phase, the recruits actually began their field training at
nearby Camp Pendleton; here, the recruits did training at the fire range, as
well as small unit tactics, etc. (00:11:44:00)
The third phase was a “polish” phase, where the recruits worked on their
drill procedures, did their swimming qualifications, etc. (00:11:55:00)
o During the training, there was an emphasis placed on discipline, although how
much of an emphasis varied from training unit to training unit (00:12:16:00)
Each of the different training companies had its own “style” and Miner
suspects this was done on purpose so the recruits in one company would
have a feeling of distinction from the other companies (00:12:25:00)
In particular, there was a lot of discipline when the recruits were in the
field; once the recruits received an order while in the field, they were not
allowed to do anything other than that order (00:12:54:00)
When someone would screw up, the most common response from the drill
instructors was to get in the recruit’s face and yell at them (00:13:31:00)
There is a common myth that the drill instructors were not allowed
to touch the recruits and although this is partly true, the drill
instructors compensated by yelling at the recruits (00:13:35:00)
Later on, the drill instructors would get more creative and would
have the recruits doing odd assignments (00:13:44:00)
o The strangest thing the Miner can remember was during the
field training, the recruits had to stand outside their tents
with their rifles and count off (00:13:56:00)
Somehow, the count was always screwed up and
Miner remembers thinking how surreal it was that
he and the other recruits were grown men, standing
on a hillside in their underwear at three in the
morning and they could not count off number
properly (00:14:08:00)
�
As well, the drill instructors used old stand-bys, such as making
the recruits do push-ups or having them hold their rifles out in
front of their body for an extended period of time (00:14:24:00)
If a recruit really screwed up, one of the drill instructors might hit
him in the stomach, but that was very rare; when it did happen, the
recruits did not make too big a deal out of it because in their
minds, they knew they deserved the punishment (00:14:30:00)
o Physically, it was not hard for Miner to adjust to military life because he had
prepared for that part by exercising (00:14:46:00)
Conversely, Miner was not prepared for the isolation from his family;
apart from a form letter at the beginning of training, the recruits were not
allowed to send out any mail and they did not receive any incoming mail
until the first month of training (00:14:52:00)
o Although all of the recruits liked to claim that their drill instructors were the
craziest, one of the instructors in Miner’s training unit seemed to be more so than
the other instructors (00:15:22:00)
The instructor took great pleasure in seeing people washout of the training,
so although Miner’s training unit started out with eighty-five recruits, it
ended in the low sixties (00:15:28:00)
Although some of the washouts were due to injury, most were
recruits who had had enough and just quit (00:15:42:00)
When Miner and the other recruits finally finished the training, they were allowed to go
home for a week (00:15:59:00)
o During Miner’s basic training, President Clinton was elected and he began
making the military go through budget cuts, particularly in regards to the training
(00:16:05:00)
Therefore, Miner’s group was one of the last to go through MCT (Marine
Combat Training), which lasted for about a month and was a review of
everything the recruits had learned during basic training (00:16:18:00)
o After MCT, Miner went to the Infantry School, which was also located on Camp
Pendleton (00:16:34:00)
The Infantry School was a six-week course and it was there that the
recruits really got into the different specifics of what their individual
MOSs (Military Occupational Specialty) might be (00:16:41:00)
Apart from training with the basic three infantry weapons: the M16 rifle,
the M203 grenade launcher, and the M249 SAW (Squad Automatic
Weapon) light machine gun (00:16:56:00)
Apart from those three weapons, the recruits also trained with the
M2 heavy machine gun, the M19 automatic grenade launcher, and
the M64 anti-tank rocket (00:17:19:00)
The training did not have a budget for the recruits to train with nightvision equipment, so that had to wait until later schools or when the
recruits joined their new units (00:17:46:00)
There was some night vision equipment, such as a night-vision
scope from the Vietnam War, that the men could practice with but
nothing too spectacular (00:17:54:00)
�
At that point, the recruits were not training with helicopters or landing
craft; there were some practice helicopters the recruits could practice
roping out of (00:18:18:00)
Within line infantry battalions, there were specific companies for boats,
helicopters, and tracks (armored) and any in-depth training related to those
assignments was held until the recruits joined those units (00:18:30:00)
1st Recon / First Deployment (00:19:01:00)
After completing the infantry school, Miner was sent to join his new unit (00:19:01:00)
o Due to the Clinton Administration budget cuts, a lot of units were phased out
completely; one of the units to be phased out were the reconnaissance battalions
that Miner had hoped to join (00:19:12:00)
Instead, one of the companies from the a division’s reconnaissance
battalion plus the battalion’s indoctrination platoon merged with a
battalion of LAVs (Light Armored Vehicles), effectively turning the LAV
battalion the 1st Recon Battalion (00:19:22:00)
Once Miner finished he training, he received orders to join the
newly-formed 1st Recon Battalion, where the company from the
old reconnaissance battalion would provide reconnaissance for the
LAVs (00:19:36:00)
The other three companies in the reconnaissance battalion were assigned
to a different regiments (00:19:46:00)
The phasing-out of the reconnaissance battalions was a somewhat
controversial move because the battalions were seen as somewhat
prestigious (00:19:58:00)
o When he joined the 1st Recon, Miner went through an indoctrination process,
which involved going through a scout training program (00:20:14:00)
As it turned out, 1st Recon was stationed on Camp Pendleton, next to
where Miner had gone through his previous training (00:20:35:00)
During the indoctrination process, Miner was doing “all the really fun
stuff”, such as riding around on rubber boats, jumping from helicopters
into the ocean, etc. (00:20:59:00)
Part of the indoctrination process involved Miner do memory
games where the instructors laid out items, allowed Miner thirty
seconds to look at them, had Miner go on a three mile run and then
had him try to remember as much as possible as to how the items
were laid out in relation to each other (00:21:12:00)
Miner learned how to measure the gradients of beaches, the size
and strength of bridges, etc. (00:21:34:00)
When Miner first joined the battalion, it was with a larger group of men
and they all went through the indoctrination together (00:21:49:00)
Once the men completed the indoctrination, they were parsed out
to the individual companies in the battalion to join a scout team in
the company (00:21:53:00)
o Once Miner joined a company-level scout team, he was surprised to learn that
there was not much in the way of a daily routine (00:22:14:00)
�
When Miner first joined the unit, he was told that the unit was going to be
deployed in the winter of 1993/1994, so Miner assumed that the men were
going to be training to get ready (00:22:21:00)
Instead, on most days, the men would sit around, cleaning their weapons
and the like (00:22:45:00)
On a typical day, the men got up in the morning and ran for two
hours, returned to their area and lifted weights or went to the pool
and swam, broke for lunch, and then did weapons maintenance in
the afternoon (00:22:49:00)
The daily routine was not as fantastical as Miner had imagined and
he remembers mentioned to the scout team leader that if the men
were to war at that point, they would all be killed (00:23:06:00)
Eventually, the training did increase and Miner remembers one of the first
things the scout team did was travel to the Marine Corps base at
Twentynine Palms, California for additional training (00:23:20:00)
o Once Miner and the other men got situated into the scout teams, they realized it
was like a regular 9-to-5 job, which gave the men freedom to do what they wanted
in the time they were not on duty (00:23:50:00)
However, most of the men compensated this freedom by “going crazy”,
such as going to the bars and strip clubs in San Diego (00:24:04:00)
Although the men could drink on-base was at the various enlisted
clubs; however, there were no girls there, so most of the men went
across the U.S.-Mexican border to Tijuana (00:24:14:00)
Some of the men would purchase new cars, although some of the
older men tried to keep an eye on the younger ones to make sure
they did not spend all their money (00:24:34:00)
o While Miner was in boot camp, he received a letter from his mother saying that
Miner was a great person and he was going to get through this; however, Miner
had no idea what she was talking about (00:24:47:00)
It was not until later that Miner received a Dear John letter from the girl he
had met at Grand Valley State (00:25:02:00)
Although Miner had talked to the girl on occasion during his
training and had gone home to talk with her while on leave, they
just decided to break everything off (00:25:17:00)
In a way, Miner was relieved that he had broken off the relationship with
the girl because he saw other men who came into the unit with families
and they had a rough time of it, especially when the unit would go off for
six weeks at a time to train (00:25:28:00)
o Once the men started doing training, the experience started living up to what
Miner’s expectations had been (00:26:05:00)
Miner’s mentor in the unit, his scout team leader, had gone through
scout/sniper school and done a lot of really neat stuff that Miner found
interesting (00:26:11:00)
The team leader was twenty-nine at the time and was considered
an old man by Marine Corps standards (00:26:44:00)
�
Because Miner was extra motivated, compared to the other men in
the scout team, the team leader took Miner under his wing and
taught him a lot of the stuff that he knew (00:20:56:00)
o For the most part, the other men in Miner’s unit had joined the Marine Corps for a
variety of different reasons, with the most common reason being that they had
always wanted to try it (00:27:10:00)
However, Miner’s best friend in the unit was Jewish kid from
Massachusetts who had gotten into some trouble back home that upset his
parents and to spite them, the friend joined the Marines (00:27:18:00)
o Although Miner had wanted to take some classes while in the Marines, there was
never any time to take them (00:28:08:00)
Miner did try to do some correspondence courses while he was deployed
but most of those did not work out; he did complete a philosophy course
through the University of Syracuse but he never received a grade for the
class (00:28:15:00)
Miner joined the 1st Recon in April 1993 and the battalion shipped out in January 1994;
the men started their “build-up” six months prior to the deployment (00:28:43:00)
o The “build-up” was officially named Special Operations Capable training and
consisted of the men going through a series of schools, learning about tactics such
as embassy evacuation, hostage rescue, etc. (00:29:02:00)
o Early on, the men knew that they were going to be part of the UN involvement in
Somalia; at this point, the Black Hawk Down incident had not occurred, so the
Marines were going to be a supporting role to the Special Forces deployed in the
country (00:29:36:00)
However, when the incident occurred in October, the entire operation
changed and the plan was to remove all American forces from Somalia by
March 1994 (00:29:55:00)
Miner remembers he walked into the base PX (Post Exchange) and
saw a picture of one of the downed helicopter pilots being dragged
through the streets on the cover of a magazine (00:30:07:00)
o Miner remembers he paused and thought about how in a
couple of months, he was going to be in the middle of that;
still he and the other Marines were “pissed off and ready to
go” (00:30:22:00)
o Although there had always been a rivalry between the
Army Rangers and the Marines, when it came down to it, it
was about supporting another fighting person
(00:30:32:00)
o By Fall 1993, everything had been ironed out for Miner and the Marines to deploy
and it was early to mid-January 1994 when they actually deployed (00:30:56:00)
Miner returned home to Michigan on leave for Christmas 1993 and shortly
after he returned to California, boarded a ship with the other Marines to
deploy (00:31:05:00)
The Marines sailed on an LSD (Landing Ship, Dock), the U.S.S.
Anchorage; the Anchorage was the first ship in its class, which meant it
was very old by the time Miner sailed aboard it (00:31:22:00)
�
After leaving California, the Anchorage joined an Amphibious
Ready Group consisting of an LHD (Landing Helicopter Dock),
which carried helicopters, two LSDs and an LST (Landing Ship,
Tank), which carried armored vehicles (00:31:38:00)
After leaving California, the Ready Group sailed to Singapore, where they
picked up their ammunition, and then directly to Somalia (00:32:19:00)
Miner actually liked sailing aboard the ship, which he found to be
somewhat relaxing (00:32:32:00)
o However, by the time the ships had sailed across the
Pacific, the men were tired of open water and the first
island they saw, they discussed how nice it would be to just
land and stay there (00:30:48:00)
o Life aboard the ships was very cramped, which completely
change the men’s sense of “personal space” (00:33:02:00)
From what Miner can remember, it took the ships about three
weeks to sail from California to Singapore (00:33:37:00)
o There was an Amphibious Ready Group already deployed
to Somalia, so the commanders were not in too much of a
rush to get Miner’s Ready Group there (00:33:59:00)
After the Ready Group left Singapore, the intended destination was
Somalia; however, the situation in the country had heated up, so
the men received additional intelligence briefings and situationspecific training, such as riot training (00:34:12:00)
The landing in Somalia was an interesting event because prior to the actual landing, the
ships sat visible off the coast for a while, in what Miner suspects was an attempt to
intimidate the local warlords (00:35:21:00)
o Miner remembers looking out and seeing an aircraft carrier and destroyers sitting
there as well and not believing that they had “lost” the conflict; by that point, the
men considered Somalia to be a lost-cause (00:35:34:00)
o As the ships sat, Miner remembers being unimpressed with Mogadishu, which he
expected to be more built-up (00:35:50:00)
A lot of fighting occurred at night and Miner and the other Marines would
watch from the ship as tracer rounds flew through the city and helicopters
would fly overhead and launch attacks (00:35:58:00)
o Apart from the American forces in the UN coalition, there was also an Italian
contingent, a Pakistani contingent, a Saudi Arabian contingent, and a German
contingent (00:36:15:00)
o During the briefings prior to the landings, Miner and the other Marines were
preparing themselves for an old-fashioned, World War II-style landing
(00:36:26:00)
Although the men knew it was not going to be a “hot” landing, they did
not know what to expect and prepared for the worst (00:36:36:00)
o When the landings finally happened, the men boarded landing crafts and actually
landed to the south of Mogadishu (00:37:03:00)
�
The landing craft arrived at the beach around mid-morning and as the men
rolled off, Miner remembers that the first thing he saw was a Somalia man
squatting down to relieve himself (00:37:13:00)
Once ashore, the men began doing patrols around the local settlements,
which were little more than mud huts with wooden fences made from
sticks and briars (00:37:36:00)
o The Marines did not start performing actual missions in Mogadishu until later in
the week (00:37:57:00)
The warlords had been raiding the villages where the Marines were but
stopped when the Marines arrived; the warlords knew the Marines were
only staying for a short period of time, so they decided to lay low and wait
until the Marines left (00:38:10:00)
However, some of the younger Somalis would occasionally get
wound-up and take pot shots at the Marines (00:38:40:00)
Initially, the Marine’s first mission in Mogadishu was escorting an
electronic warfare vehicle up to the Mogadishu airport (00:39:01:00)
During the missions, Miner was again unimpressed with
Mogadishu; he had been expecting a “big” city with tallish
buildings but almost everywhere, the buildings ranged from one to
three stories tall (00:39:28:00)
When the Marines arrived at the airport with the electronic warfare
vehicle, the personnel at the airport looked at the Marines as
though they were aliens; the personnel there were walking around
in their shorts and t-shirts (00:39:49:00)
At the airport, the Marines were positioned next to a group of
German fallschirmjägers (paratroopers), who thought the Marines
were cool-looking and took pictures with them (00:40:12:00)
The day after the Marines left, enemy forces ended up hitting the
gate they had used with rockets (00:40:28:00)
Apart from the escort assignment, the Marines mostly did security patrols
around the various UN buildings in the city (00:40:38:00)
By that point, Miner does not believe the UN aid effort was still going on;
if there was an aid effort, it was not very intense (00:40:50:00)
There was a Swedish-run hospital in the city that took care of
wounded fighters and civilians (00:40:57:00)
o Miner saw quite a bit of the local Somali population; in fact, one of the most
beautiful women he ever saw was there (00:41:25:00)
Prior to landing, the Marines had received warnings against interacting
with the Somali women because the women had to live under strict
Islamic law (00:41:31:00)
There was always this one particular woman that the men would see and
although Miner wanted to wave at her, he never did (00:41:50:00)
Finally, one day, Miner decided to wave to her and as the men
drove past, he did; in response, the woman shyly turned her head
away (00:42:00:00)
�
The other major interaction Miner had with the local population was when
the Marines would set up road blocks (00:42:11:00)
o From the way they were dressed to their overall attitude, Miner did not have a
good impression of the other American forces in the city (00:42:46:00)
The German contingent did patrols in the city and the Saudi Arabian
contingent were all business; if someone came up or the Saudis felt
particularly threatened, they just shot (00:42:52:00)
The Marines never saw the Italian contingent and they only saw the
Malaysian contingent very briefly (00:43:36:00)
o It is hard for Miner to remember exactly how many days he was deployed in
Somalia because during that time, he and the other Marines were living a day-today existence (00:43:47:00)
The Marines arrived in Somalia prior to Miner’s birthday, so he used his
birthday as a sort of baseline and he figures it was a couple of weeks after
that before they left (00:43:54:00)
The men would go on patrols, go back out to the ships, land again, and go
on more patrols (00:44:04:00)
o For the most part, the Marines never really encountered any actually enemy
opposition (00:44:24:00)
On occasion, the enemy would make probes of the perimeter at night; the
men would hear rustling but they had no way of knowing if it was an
animal or a person (00:44:31:00)
Once the Marines thought whatever it was had gotten close
enough, they would launch a flare, which would cause whatever it
was to stop and inevitably, leave (00:44:45:00)
Although the men had been warned about the possibility of enemy mines
and were told to watch for garbage along the side of the road, it was
nothing like it was in Iraq or Afghanistan later (00:45:01:00)
The Somalis did not have remote detonation capabilities and had to
use good, old-fashioned mines, which did not worry the Marines
too much (00:45:08:00)
If there was a “disturbance” in the road, the Marines would just
drive around it (00:45:15:00)
After leaving Somalia, there was a plan in place for the Marines to go into Rwanda,
although it never materialized; the Marines did go to northern Kenya to train the Kenyan
military to stop warlords from raid across the Kenyan-Somali border (00:45:31:00)
o The operations in Kenya were cool because it gave the Marines a chance to live
with the local population and get to know them (00:46:02:00)
o Operations in Kenya were different than those in Somalia because the Marines
were operating in a jungle-environment (00:46:10:00)
Although the men would sleep in their vehicles, they would spend time
with the local Kenyan population and would train with the local militia
forces (00:46:21:00)
The local population was still living in grass huts, so the Marines must
have seemed like spacemen stepping off a flying saucer (00:46:42:00)
�
The adults would often stand back and watch the Marines but the
children would come right up to them, who would share candy
with the children (00:46:53:00)
o The men did not spend more than a week at the border before they returned to
their ship (00:47:12:00)
The men did receive some liberty time and were able to go into Mombasa,
Kenya, which was fun (00:47:18:00)
Mombasa was more in line with what Miner had expected the
African cities to be (00:47:28:00)
Before leaving East Africa, the Marines had to go through “pass and review”, which
involved the men wearing their quasi-dress uniforms and standing at attention as a sign of
respect (00:48:08:00)
o Having to go through the ceremony upset some of the men because in their minds,
they had still lost the fighting (00:48:21:00)
After the “pass and review”, the ships stayed in the area for a little while longer, in the
event something broke out, before eventually sailing to Australia, which was what all the
men had been waiting for (00:48:31:00)
o The ships sailed to Fremantle and Perth, Australia; Fremantle was the harbor town
and Perth was the larger city (00:48:43:00)
o The Marines stayed in Australia for five days and luckily, one of Miner’s friends
was in-charge of the duty roster, so Miner never had to stand guard (00:48:51:00)
Instead, Miner and his friends partied the entire time they were there,
sleeping maybe two nights during the five days (00:48:58:00)
o From Australia, the ships sailed to the Philippines and then on to Hawaii before
finally returning to California (00:49:12:00)
o Miner did not realize that the seasons flipped once someone crossed the equator,
so the men went from 130° plus in East Africa to Australia, where it was winter
and freezing cold (00:50:02:00)
Return Home / 2nd Deployment (00:50:51:00)
When the men returned to San Diego, it was odd for them because they got off the boats,
turned in their equipment and were able to go out; however, the people around them had
no idea what the men had done or gone through (00:50:51:00)
o Miner was somewhat resentful of the fact that people did not know what they had
done; the only real news he saw about them was when his mother mailed him a
small newspaper clipping about the men’s deployment (00:51:31:00)
o After they had returned, the men had some downtime, which so men used to go
on leave, while other slipped into a more relaxing schedule, closer to the 9-to-5
schedule the men had followed prior to deploying (00:52:06:00)
o A couple of months after the men had returned to San Diego, word came down
that they were going to deploy again; Miner personally was okay with the orders
because he enjoyed being aboard the ship and traveling around (00:52:26:00)
o Initially, Miner and his roommate had planned to try and join Force Recon, which
was the Marines’ version of the Navy SEALs; however, Miner had gotten a little
out-of-shape by this time (00:52:43:00)
�
Nevertheless, the roommate tried out for the unit, failed the first time, tried
out a second time, and made it (00:52:59:00)
When the roommate made it, it motivated Miner, who began
getting back into shape (00:53:04:00)
Although Miner did fairly well during his first tryout, he still failed;
however, he figured that if he tried out a second time, he would make it
through (00:53:12:00)
However, by this point, Miner had met a girl from L.A. and he began
rethinking joining Force Recon; if he joined the unit, he would have to
extend his enlistment at least another two years to account for all the
training he would need to go through (00:53:21:00)
Instead, Miner decided against trying out a second time and decided to just
go through with his second deployment (00:53:41:00)
When he enlisted, Miner had always intended to go through a single enlistment, nothing
more; Miner had liked going to Grand Valley State and decided that he would like to go
back there (00:53:51:00)
Eventually, Miner began his second deployment in November 1995 (00:54:27:00)
o By the time of the second deployment, Miner’s mentor in the scout team had
moved on and Miner had taken his place as the scout team leader (00:54:51:00)
During the build-up prior to the deployment, Miner was busy training
some of the new men in the scout team (00:55:56:00)
o The deployment was expected to be relatively easy, so the ships sailed to Japan
and Hong Kong before continuing on to the Persian Gulf; at that point, there was
nothing really going on (00:55:16:00)
o On the voyage across the Pacific, the ships were hit by extremely powerful
storms; Miner’s ship’s commander had been in the Navy for thirty-two years and
according to him, those were the worst storms he had ever seen (00:55:36:00)
There were fifty to sixty foot swells at some points, with waves coming
over the flight decks on the backs of the ships (00:55:46:00)
There were a few days where the men were confined to their berths and
they had to take belts to secure themselves (00:55:54:00)
Miner thought they were going to sink but the Navy sailors said “no, U.S.
Navy ships do not just sink” (00:56:06:00)
Miner eventually became used to the swells because he never really got
seasick; it reached the point that Miner was the one who was sent to the
mess to bring back the food for everyone else (00:56:19:00)
During the storms, the ships were sealed to keep anyone from going ondeck, although Miner remembers once sticking his head outside and being
scared of how violent the ocean looked (00:57:11:00)
It almost looked as though the ocean were alive and trying to kill
them (00:57:26:00)
o The attitude of the men during the second deployment was much less serious and
much more toned back (00:57:39:00)
During the Somalia deployment, the men had made pacts that if they were
going to be captured, they would shot each other (00:57:44:00)
�
The men had heard the stories about what had happened to men
who were captured and tortured and none of them wanted to go
through that (00:57:54:00)
The men were always told to remember that when they went ashore, they
were not only Marines but also U.S. diplomats and they were to not make
the U.S. look bad (00:58:12:00)
The men did a lot of diplomatic missions, such as going to an
orphanage in Singapore and fixing the children’s bicycles or
building a Special Olympics workout center in the United Arab
Emirates (U.A.E.) (00:58:29:00)
The men also did training with the various militaries, such as
jungle training with the Singapore Army and a lot of training with
the U.A.E. military (00:58:45:00)
o Previously, the U.A.E. had purchased some of the new
Russian BMP-3s Infantry Fighting Vehicle, so the Marines
were climbing all over them as the Russian advisors told
them to get down (00:58:56:00)
Miner had his camera with him and was taking
pictures of the interior of the vehicle because up
until that point, no one had seen the interior of one
before (00:59:07:00)
The BMP-3 was the Russian version of an armored
personnel carrier; however, because it was Russian,
it was much more cramped and far more
uncomfortable than Western versions (00:59:16:00)
Although the vehicle was considered high-tech by
the Russians, once Miner got the pictures
developed, the Marine commanders were somewhat
unimpressed with it (00:59:29:00)
o At the time, the BMP-3s in the U.A.E. were assigned to a
U.A.E. mechanized infantry unit that the Marines were
training with (01:00:22:00)
o The Marines would train with the U.A.E. forces for a little
bit, go off and do their own training, then come back and
train more with the U.A.E. forces (01:00:39:00)
None of the U.A.E. soldiers spoke English and the
Marines had not been assigned an interpreter but
both sides managed to communicate using hand
signals (01:00:46:00)
Although the Russian advisors for the BMP-3s
spoke English, none of them spoke Arabic either
(01:01:01:00)
o The nature of Miner’s unit was that he and the other Marines in the unit did not
have as much interaction with officers (01:01:29:00)
Often, the scouts would be flown out to an area to perform an operation
and would meet up with ground transport later; although some of the scout
�
could be done from vehicles, some of it still needed to be done by men on
the ground (01:01:34:00)
For example, during one part of the deployment, the scouts spent
time in Kuwait and the entire time, they were in positions along the
Kuwaiti-Iraqi border (01:01:53:00)
o At one point, intelligence showed that the Iraqi armored
forces were mobilizing towards the border, so Miner and
the other men were briefed on how they would do delaying
actions all the way back to Kuwait City (01:02:08:00)
Outside of Kuwait city were a series of hills and
once the men reached them, they were to turn
around and make their last stand (01:02:32:00)
However, the Americans flew tanks along the
border and the Kuwaitis brought up their own
armored forces, which caused the Iraqis to back
down and return to their base (01:02:43:00)
o Prior to the deployment, Miner’s scout team received some new members, one of
whom was an older man, around thirty to thirty-one years old; whenever the ships
would pull into port, instead of going out and drinking at the bars, Miner would
stay behind with that Marine (01:03:13:00)
The man had been to college and knew the history of all the places where
the men went; therefore, when the men arrived in Malaysia, the man
explained how the Dutch and Spanish had fought over it (01:03:33:00)
Another time, the men were in Bahrain and Miner and the man
snuck off the base to visit an archeological site (01:03:58:00)
Because of the other man, Miner was able to get much more culturally out
of his second deployment than his first deployment and was better able to
appreciate the cultures of the other countries (01:04:05:00)
The deployment ended in Spring 1996 and the men returned to San Diego; for the most
part, the return to San Diego was the same as it had been following the first deployment,
although this time Miner had a girlfriend waiting for him (01:04:22:00)
o After he had returned to San Diego, Miner became an instructor for the scout
school, which involved a lot of classroom time, teaching things such as vehicle
identification and tracking (01:04:43:00)
During his first deployment, Miner was promoted meritoriously, which meant he had
attained higher ranks fairly early; by the end of his enlistment, he was told that if he
stayed in, he could make a great career out of the Marines (01:05:18:00)
o When Miner mentioned he want to go to school, he was told he could go to school
and become an officer (01:05:31:00)
o Although Miner was seriously considering re-upping, a series of circumstances
happened that caused him to change his mind (01:05:35:00)
Post-Military Life (01:06:24:00)
Once he was finally out of the military in the summer of 1996, Miner returned to
Michigan and to Grand Valley State with the intention of double-majoring in History and
Archeology/Anthropology (01:06:24:00)
�
o Readjusting to civilian life was extremely difficult because Miner was so used to
life in the military (01:06:33:00)
If he went out and blew his entire paycheck in the Marines, it was not as
big a deal because he could still come back, sleep in the barracks, and eat
in the mess hall (01:06:39:00)
o Miner did stay in the Marine Corps reserves, mostly because he was not quite
ready to let go yet (01:06:53:00)
However, the reserves were far different than the active-duty, with far less
discipline amongst the men (01:07:00:00)
After staying in them for about a year, Miner finally left the activereserves; although Miner stayed on the inactive-reserves, which meant
there was a chance he could be recalled, that was never really something
he worried about and he finally left all together in 2000 (01:07:24:00)
o While going to school, Miner met his wife and took time off and on, such as when
his children were born, before finally graduating in 2003 with a degree in
Archeology/Anthropology (History became his minor) (01:08:24:00)
o After graduating, Miner was looking at attending graduate school at Michigan
Tech (01:08:45:00)
However, he and his wife had three children at the time and it would have
been too much, so Miner put away the idea of going to grad school for a
couple of years (01:08:52:00)
From his time in the Marines, the main thing Miner gained was an appreciation for how
the rest of the world lives (01:09:21:00)
o Based on Miner’s own opinions, people in the United States do not realize how
insulted they are from a lot of the realities of life (01:09:27:00)
For example, while in Somalia, people were being killed on a daily basis
but it was considered an everyday course of life; although this was
shocking to the Marines, it was normal for the Somalis (01:09:35:00)
In the main village where the men would stay, there was a teenage
goat and sheep herder and would walk his animals to the water
hole every day and then back (01:10:08:00)
o The Marines were positioned in an observation post along
the route the herder took and he would wave to them as he
passed (01:10:24:00)
o However, one day, the herder walked past, waved to the
Marines, took a few steps, and exploded; dead sheep where
knocked to the side and the herder’s body was thrown into
the air (01:10:30:00)
o Initially, the men thought they were under attack, so they
hunkered down and then speculated that the herder had
walked into a mine field (01:10:47:00)
o The herder did not die right away and after a few moments,
Miner volunteered to go out because he was an aide man
for the unit (01:10:53:00)
�
However, as Miner got up, the platoon sergeant told
him he could not go because they had no way of
know what was out there (01:11:11:00)
o Although Miner initially thought about going out anyway,
he did not; instead, he went back and the men watched as
the herder bled to death (01:11:36:00)
o As the men were sitting there, Miner remembers a woman
coming up; Miner had seen other people grieve over a
death but he had never seen the type of grief that was on
that woman’s face (01:12:05:00)
The woman was pulling her hair out, screaming at
the ground, hitting the Marines, etc. (01:12:20:00)
The men later found out that the herder was the
woman’s last child; all her other children had
starved to death (01:12:44:00)
Other times, the men saw people living in grass huts and being completely
happy with it, which is totally opposite of how Miner thinks most
Americans would react (01:12:58:00)
Whenever the men traveled in and out of Mogadishu, they saw the burned out wreckage
of vehicles that had been destroyed in previous fighting (01:13:50:00)
o Even the airport had the remains of MiG-21 jets that had been burnt out and
destroyed (01:14:01:00)
o The men knew that they were in a war zone; all of the buildings had at least a few
bullet holes in them (01:14:10:00)
As a call back to his time in the military, Miner still wears his wristwatch on the inside of
his wrist (01:14:47:00)
o Whenever the men were hunting enemy snipers, the reflection from wristwatches
could be seen from far away (01:14:55:00)
Miner admits to suffering from some mild PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder);
although he has had some bad dreams, it is nothing compared to what the veterans of Iraq
and Afghanistan are going through with their own PTSD (01:15:14:00)
o Miner ends up having to sleep with a gun within arm’s length of him because that
was something engrained into the culture of the Marines (01:15:31:00)
When the attacks happened on 9/11, Miner did give some thought to re-enlisting in the
military (01:16:12:00)
o Miner’s old roommate from college, who had joined the Army, served in Bosnia
and was slated to go to Afghanistan before he managed to get out because of the
things he had seen in Bosnia (01:16:14:00)
o However, before the roommate was discharged, he called Miner and told him that
he could get Miner to Afghanistan; all Miner had to do was join the Army
because the Special Forces were looking for new recruits (01:16:57:00)
o Although Miner thought about it, he knew in the back of his mind there was no
way it was going to happen, especially when he talked with his wife; if he was not
going to go to grad school, there was no way he was going to pack everything up
and go fight on the side of some mountain in Afghanistan (01:17:16:00)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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MinerW1466V
Title
A name given to the resource
Miner, William (Interview outline and video), 2012
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Miner, William
Description
An account of the resource
Will Miner was born in Lennon, Michigan in 1973. After graduating from high school, Miner attended Grand Valley State University for a year before deciding to enlist in the Marine Corps. Once he completed his basic training at the Marine Corps Training Depot in San Diego, California and his advanced training at Camp Pendleton, California, Miner joined the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion. In January 1994, Miner and the remainder of the 1st Recon deployed to East Africa to take part in the American operations in the region. Apart from operations in Somalia, Miner and the battalion briefly served in Kenya and Rwanda before returning to the United States. After a year, Miner deployed a second time, this time to the Persian Gulf region, where he participated in operations in the U.A.E. and Kuwait, amongst other places.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.)
WKTV
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
United States. Marine Corps
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2012-11-20
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6d2403dc0aa80bedcc4992266a015932.m4v
a94020c5b3a3bcb330216b978617054f
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/95ccbbb6df4750fdc8558244bc30f3e3.pdf
d69df5acb2c3d28ee67b5ea2cfd2c11b
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Vietnam War
Che Nguyen
(43:42)
Introduction (00:20)
Che was born in the capital city of Hanoi in Vietnam in 1940.
Growing up his family worked as farmers.
When he was a child, he lived in the French controlled area.
He spent twelve years in school, and graduated high school. After high school, Che
joined the Army. (02:29)
Like many other Vietnamese kids, he felt that he had to do something for his country. He
joined the Army in 1962.
Military (03:00)
Upon joining, he chose to go to officer training school, which lasted one year.
There he learned how to lead and fight with different units and learned about the different
ranks.
After school he graduated as a lieutenant.
He was stationed with the 46th Regiment located in the center of Vietnam.
At that time, the Viet Cong and the NVA (North Vietnamese Army) were very strong.
The NVA and Viet Cong would often hide in the high mountains and in the jungle.
Che served with that unit for four years, from 1962 – 1966. After that he was discharged
from the Army.
Second Enlistment (06:57)
He then lived in Saigon and worked as a teacher.
Che worked as a teacher for about one year.
In 1968, after the Tet Offensive, he rejoined the Army.
He was in Saigon when the Tet Offensive began. (8:42)
His new unit was stationed around Saigon, and he served as the company executive
officer in a combat unit. (10:16)
His unit was involved in many battles.
When his unit was fighting, they had new weapons that were similar to those being used
by the American units.
He only remembers one battle, which was his last.
He rejoined the Army in 1968 and stayed in until 1975. (12:34)
In his last battle, at An Xuan Loc, he was the Battalion Commander.
When he fought the NVA and the VC, his unit was very successful and won many times.
�
After 1968, the NVA and VC were drawn out into the cities, so they did not have to fight
in the mountains or in the jungles. (15:03)
Che was promoted to Battalion Commander in 1972, at the battle of Au Loc, after his
commander was killed.
His battalion took the airfield in [Quan Long], afterwards a Lieutenant General awarded
him a Bronze Star with V. (16:47)
The men who served under him were good soldiers who fought very well.
Towards the end of the war, his unit had difficulties getting supplies, sometime after
1973. The United States promised supplies to the South Vietnamese Army but Congress
would not approve, so they went without. (18:50)
In his last battle, they fought for twelve days.
They defeated three divisions of NVA there. Che and his men destroyed 37 T-54 and
PT-76 tanks that were being used by the NVA. (20:32)
Che only had one division of men versus the three divisions from the North, and yet the
South won the battle.
The North had far better supplies than the South.
His battalion held the mountain called Che Mountain, with an artillery battery of 155mm.
They needed to stop the attack from the north. They were attacked from all sides, and
were attacked all day long, but they could not break through Che’s lines. (22:52)
At night, they sent Sappers to infiltrate his lines.
In the end, the NVA realized they couldn’t win the battle or take the position, so they
decided to go around. (24:51)
When the NVA changed their plan, Che was ordered to abandon An Xuan Loc and
moved back to protect Bien Hoa.
They remained there until the war ended.
Prison Camp (26:00)
After the surrender of the South to the North, the men were ordered to stop fighting and
go home. Che arrived home and was later arrested by the NVA and put in prison. (26:19)
He was home for about a month before the NVA came for him.
The prison camp was separated by rank, he was with the majors. He was transferred
many times.
The treatment that he was given while at the camp was very bad. (28:39)
The re-education camps were used for revenge against the South. They were told they
were just puppets for South Vietnam.
Che was forced to perform hard labor, including going into the jungle to cut timber,
plowing fields and farm work (31:16)
The prisoners were not given enough food, and were always very hungry. He would get
a bowl of rice once a week; his family was able to send food later on.
He never had any contact with the people who lived around the camp. (32:49)
Che also did not receive any medical care while there. If someone would get sick, there
was no medicine available for the person.
Many of the prisoners died while being held there. At least 8-10 men died that he knew.
(34:00)
�Released from Camp/Civilian Life after the War (34:23)
Che was there for five years, and was released with a group of other prisoners.
He was married in 1968, and he had three children. While in prison, his wife had to
manage the family and care for the children by herself.
Che feels that he was treated worse than some of the other prisoners because he was an
officer that fought for the south.
Once released from prison, he began working as a tailor. (36:25)
Che had many troubles with the local police, every week he had to report to the local
police as to what he did everyday. He did this for three years. After the three years, he
was only required to report in every two weeks, then once a month and finally they forgot
about him.
Coming to the United States (37:40)
He found out that he could go to the United States through a military program, so he
applied and waited about two years before he was approved and could leave Vietnam.
They left Vietnam in 1992 and went to Detroit, Michigan. The family chose Detroit
because Che had a friend that sponsored him to come. Che brought his entire family with
him. (39:42)
Adjusting to the United States was very easy, because of the many opportunities to find a
job and educational opportunities for his children. Learning English was the hardest part.
Looking back to his military service, from 1969-1972 he went on many missions with the
United States Army. (41:30)
Che also had military advisors attached to his unit. He had a good relationship with those
Americans.
When he arrived in America, Che began working as a painter.
Today, two of his children graduated from university and two graduated from college.
One lives in Florida, one lives in Chicago and the other two live with him in Detroit.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
NguyenC0603V
Title
A name given to the resource
Nguyen, Che (Interview outline and video), 2010
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Nguyen, Che
Description
An account of the resource
Che was born in Hanoi, Vietnam in 1940. After graduating from high school, he joined the army so that he could serve his country. He was sent to officer training school and graduated as a lieutenant. He served in the army from 1962 – 1966. After the Tet Offensive in 1968, Che decided to rejoin the army. He was sent to many towns and villages surrounding Saigon, and later fought in the battle of An Xuan Loc as a battalion commander. After the war ended, Che spent five years in a prison camp for his military involvement. He moved with his family to the United States in 1992 and settled in Detroit, Michigan.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, Vietnamese
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, Vietnamese
Vietnam (Republic)
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2010-07-03
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6838c93aa7a85ef8f94312ddc2f6b015.m4v
c03372db7c4d86e80156c62ecb41618b
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/34e4f9e8298a0f9e740a8dd431731054.pdf
5441a961724c992fae781f230e513f15
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Vietnam
Interviewee: Doug Mills
Length of Interview: 00:18:45
Background
Drafted into Army in November 1965; 20 years old
Training (00:30)
Trained in Fort Riley, Kansas
July 1966 assigned to the 199th Infantry Brigade and 504th Police Platoon
Vietnam (00: 50)
Sent to Vietnam in September of 1966
October 1966: began different operations: Ganston and Lancaster
Operation Addleboro: Backup support for Company A and helped take out wounded.
After finished went back to guarding the landing zone.
Began operation Cedar Falls; land mines constantly blowing American vehicles
Set up road blocks and increased security which brought Cedar Falls to an end
Operation Junction City began and they moved to the Cambodian border; here they
would round up members of the North Vietnamese Army
Spent the rest of Vietnam guarding the northernmost POW camp in Chu Lai
Returned home in September of 1967
Post War (03:28)
Lived as a civilian
Reactions to Vietnam (04:00)
First reaction of Vietnam: remembers machine guns, mortar and instant fear. It took
them a while to realize that what they heard was miles away and they did not have
anything to worry about currently.
Looking back, it scares him more now to realize what he did in Vietnam then back when
it all happened.
Terrible effects of seeing what he saw in Vietnam
“Agent Orange” was sprayed on him every morning by the US Air Force; believes he has
problems from it. (05:33)
Training (cont.)
�
Inducted into training in Detroit and sent to Tennessee for the first set of shots with many
in his graduating class due to the draft.
Did most of his training in Fort Riley, Kansas. Said that it was a good training program
and it would hurt kids today.
Sent to Fort Benning, Georgia for heavy weapons training.
In POW training, they were taught about the Geneva Convention.
Remembering Combat (08:00)
When working with the POW’s, he saw a lot of the country when he transported
prisoners between hospitals and camps.
Experience “combat”, as described by snipers shooting at him and his team, and mortar
fire for 6 or 7 months, on and off. It was never like anything seen in modern day war
films. Never actually saw the enemy.
Never explored the NVA tunnels, though they are a tourist attraction today. He said that
some of his buddies went back and explored them.
Spent some time trying to take a mountain that had a 3 story hospital built into it. Once
they had taken it, the NV moved out and once they moved out when the war was over,
the NV had all moved back.
Returning Home (11:15)
Hardest part is leaving a combat zone and finding themselves back in the world. It’s
mind-blowing because everything is still the same here. It was nice to be home.
People bought him drinks to thank him for his service and to welcome him home.
He recalled that he was pretty wired when he came home, and it would not have taken
much to make him violent.
When he was in combat he got as close to the ground as he could. He said “I was not a
hero, I survived, and I did what I was told.”
Stays in close contact with his sergeant and three other guys that served with him.
Most places they went, they used helicopters, especially the Chinook.
Politics (15:20)
His does not hold Nixon and his policies in high regard..
He said that LBJ learned what a tragedy the war in Vietnam was and it killed him.
Said Eisenhower administration got them into the war with all the promises and contracts
that were set up to protect against aggression, and it was the Kennedy administration that
got them out, though with much trouble.
Worked with soldiers from different countries: South Vietnamese, Korean soldiers, the
Filipinos, and Australians.
He said that one has to remember that this was a war that was fought by kids, as is the
war today.
He is hoping that Obama will end both the Afghan and Iraq wars today so they do not
turn into Vietnam.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MillsD
Title
A name given to the resource
Mills, Doug (Interview outline and video), 2010
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Mills, Doug
Description
An account of the resource
Doug Mills was drafted into the United States Army in 1965. He trained in Tennessee, Kansas and Georgia before being sent to Vietnam with the 199th Brigade. He served as a heavy weapons unit MP and would look after POW's for the last few months of his service before returning home.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Bouwens, Taylor (Interviewer)
Couture, Nick (Interviewer)
Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2010-05-25
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/80fafbfa85c3629a99e3ff6dfdfa6d8e.mp4
c0fd8a128e8c087ed9e30825f10c4b9a
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4902b722bcd9f74bd3cb033fe006404c.pdf
212af401e895608771f6bbcff83a185f
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Donald Newton
(00:59:50)
(0:00:20) Pre-Enlistment
•
•
•
•
•
•
Graduated High School in 1942 at 16 years old.
Put to work on NRA project before enlistment
(0:01:16) Father had own business during Great Depression- a gas station
Didn’t follow World War II before Pearl Harbor
Got accepted into Navy three days before 18th birthday. Preferred the Navy
because he was told conditions were better than in the Army
Joined the Navy because he went to the movies and saw people with legs and
arms missing, and he figured that in the Navy he had better chance at this not
happening
(0:08:10) Training
•
•
They went to Great Lakes Naval Station in Chicago, then to Navy Pier where he
learned different types of engines. He then went to Navy Submarine School in
New London, Connecticut.
(0:09:10) While he was there he was in Spritz’s Navy. He considers this tougher
than the Marine Corps. They had to perform many different tests which
eliminated many men very quickly. About 1 in 10 men were accepted into the
submarine corp. Eye tests, coordination tests, and other tests were given to the
men.
(0:11:55) Active Duty
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
After training, was assigned to Manitowoc Shipbuilding Company in Manitowoc,
Wisconsin. They built submarines there. While the USS Icefish was being built,
he went to school to learn about submarines.
(0:13:15) Ship went through Chicago River on a barge, then down the Mississippi
River. He met the ship in New Orleans, and was on leave while the boat was en
route. Proceeded though Panama Canal and then were bombed for first time.
(0:13:45) Was in forward engine room when this happened. Ship was travelling
on surface. They were bombed by American aircraft. Pilot of Aircraft made error.
53 American subs were lost during the war years
Was a good feeling for him to be underwater, he said it was like being in a whale.
(0:17:25) Sailors had to get used living conditions.
(0:18:15) During the first encounter with Japanese, a depth charge attack drove
them to exceed crush depth by 100 feet, which was a very dangerous situation for
crew of the sub. He was not able to talk about this experience until recently, and
�•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
was unable to do interviews because of it. He considers himself to be very lucky
to be alive. When he was discharged, was told to go home and forget everything,
and to not accept interviews by the Navy. The USS Icefish sprang 231 leaks after
depth charges. They sank to point of sub creaking. They were down very deep. He
had to fix the leaks in the engine room during this process. He does not remember
being afraid, just saying “They’re trying to kill us!” All of the leaks were stopped
in less than two minutes, and they were able to get to neutral buoyancy, and they
had to wait for surface to be clear. They were hit directly several times, and were
forced to use salad oil in hydraulics on way to Pearl Harbor to repair.
He remembers the sounds. When a depth charge hit water, sound man would yell
“splash” and then they could hear the detonator on the depth charges click right
before the explosions.
Destroyers looked for subs with sound gear.
72 men and 10 officers were on the ship. There were three watches, and two
officers mess cooks.
(0:27:17) Twenty percent of the crew changed with each run. He was transferred
once to Relief Control 42, but this was only on paper. Ended up staying with the
Icefish.
Really liked the Australian people. They had Sunday dinners when they were in
Perth with a family.
(0:32:55) They spent time in different ways. They did 4 hours in and 8 hours off.
They could do different things, he studied in his spare time, became officer. He
could have been a first class officer, but instead decided to return to Grand
Rapids, MI to help his father with his filling station.
(0:34:50) His station on the surface job was to load the 40mm gun on the top of
the sub. In one instance, a plane had spotted some lifeboats. A small Japanese
ship had tried to get the men in the lifeboats, and when they saw the sub they
retreated to shore. Guns on the shore attempted to aim at the sub, but the aim was
too low.
They were ordered to not harass Japanese fishing ships unless they had
contraband.
They sunk a troop ship with 6000 Japanese, and he saw many different troops
jump off the ship. The Japanese depth charged them anyway, likely killing more
Japanese soldiers than doing any damage to their sub
(0:44:30) They were told to proceed directly to Pearl Harbor once the war had
ended and the peace treaty was signed in Tokyo. When they reached Pearl
Harbor, they were told to proceed directly to San Francisco.
(0:45:30)After the war, they were sent to San Diego to train the sonar people.
(0:47:30) Post-Service
•
•
•
•
He decided to come home from the service after his father had a heart attack
He was told by the Navy not to talk about their experiences until the 1970s when
the information was declassified.
He kept in touch with some of the people on his ship.
He took over the station. He got married when he was 29 years old.
�•
•
•
He worked as engineering company in Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Then worked for an appliance store, then owned a mobile home park, and then
worked for the Postal Service.
He enjoyed his time in the Navy, and he says that it prepared him for the future
well.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
NewtonD
Title
A name given to the resource
Newton, Donald (Interview outline and video), 2008
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Newton, Donald
Description
An account of the resource
Donald Newton was born in Grand Rapids, MI and graduated from high school at age 16. When he was eligible, he joined the Navy and did basic training at Great Lakes Naval Station. He then moved to submarine training at New London, CT. He was then assigned to the USS Icefish and patrolled the Pacific Ocean, making attacks on various different Japanese vessels.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Montagna, Douglas (Interviewer)
Great Lakes Naval Memorial & Museum (Muskegon, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Navy
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Moving Image
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2008-09-29
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/801770a1e20d9a019b57dfa90dedbdee.mp4
9e38677c3bb99709879f6f131152dee5
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f794658e42f602bfdf06039e89d60162.pdf
b6fd3679df2f96681a8b0e803f9f05e5
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Noel Miller
Vietnam War
1 hour 33 minutes 44 seconds
(00:00:08) Early Life
-Born in Lima, Ohio on March 23, 1949
-Mother and father owned a family farm in Harrod, Ohio
-Brought up on that farm until he was five years old
-Moved to Findley, Ohio and spent the rest of his childhood there
-Father was a corporate pilot and worked for Cooper Rubber & Tire Company
-Worked as a commercial pilot for TWA for two years after WWII
-Graduated from Findley High School in 1967
-Wasn’t sure what he wanted to do in life
-Had aspirations of being a firefighter
(00:01:39) Awareness of Vietnam War and Pre-Enlistment
-Heard about fighting in Vietnam, but didn’t know much about it
-He knew that even college graduates were getting drafted
-If he knew he was going to get drafted he wanted to get military service out of the way
-Didn’t want to be an infantryman
-Helicopters mesmerized him from an early age
(00:02:48) Enlisting in the Army
-Enlisted in the Army to fly helicopters
-Enlisted in April 1968
-Had orders to leave in early June 1968
(00:03:06) Flight Physical and Basic Training
-Reported to Columbus, Ohio on June 10, 1968
-Allowed to specify what he wanted his occupation to be
-Had taken, and passed, the aviation aptitude test
-Had to take a flight physical
-Grueling physical test
-Passed it
-Sent to Fort Polk, Louisiana for basic training
-Spent ten weeks there
-Arrived in the middle of the night
-Disoriented and confused upon arrival
-Didn’t know what to expect
-Took two weeks to go through processing
-Paperwork, testing, more physicals, and adapting to military life
-Given the same training that the infantry received
(00:06:53) Morale and Conditions in Basic Training
-Most men were draftees
-Terrible morale, some desertion occurred, and one recruit committed suicide
-He knew that he wanted to make it through basic training to enter flight school
�-Hot and humid weather while training in Louisiana
-There were high rates of illiteracy and a lack of discipline
(00:10:06) Drill Sergeants
-Senior drill sergeant was tough, but had a good heart
-Vietnam veteran, tall, loud, but lovable
-Other drill sergeant was an alcoholic
-One drill sergeant was intimidating, but was quiet and well humored
-Senior drill sergeant was eventually killed doing his third tour in Vietnam
(00:12:12) Training at Fort Walters, Texas
-After basic training he was placed on a bus and sent to Fort Walters, Texas
-Given a day of liberty before training began
-Greeted by officers berating him and the other recruits
-Class started with two hundred seventy five warrant officer candidates
-Seventy five quit on the first day
-Warrant officers were specialists in one area
-For him it was learning to fly a helicopter
-Given the privileges of being an officer without the responsibility
-Easier to get into than officer candidate school
(00:15:42) Details about Fort Walters
-Fort Walters was the primary helicopter training school
-First month was spent on pre-flight training
-Classes mixed with processing and physical training
-Twenty four hours of harassment
-Stayed in three man rooms
-Gear was expected to be perfectly organized
-Took four weeks to get used to what was expected of recruits
-Rewarded/punished on a merit/demerit system
-A weekend pass was granted if you had less than five thousand demerits
-A minor error was worth one thousand demerits
-Taught to work as a team and depend on each other for protection
-Two men were dismissed from flight school for protesting system
(00:22:43) Learning to Fly at Fort Walters
-Learning to hover was extremely difficult
-The entire program of learning to fly was rigorous
-Picked up solo flying within ten hours of flight time
-Flight training was split into three stages
-Pre solo, primary, and advanced
-Flew in TH55 helicopters as well as Bell 13’s and Hillers (larger helicopter)
-Flying a Huey was like “flying a house” compared to the training helicopters
-Graduated from primary training after five months
(00:26:00) Instrument Training at Fort Rucker, Alabama
-Sent to Fort Rucker, Alabama for four months instrument training
-Taught how to rely on flying with instruments only
-Spent four weeks learning the basics
-After four weeks of learning the basics went on to advanced instrument training
-Had to fly a “check ride” (final exam) to pass flight training
�(00:28:40) Graduating from Flight Training
-By the end of training in May 1969 only eighty eight men graduated
-Before he graduated he spent time flying the UH-1 (Huey)
-Learned how to do tactical flying
-Before graduating they had to spend two weeks in the field
-Had to fly a training mission to pick up Airborne graduates from Fort Bragg
-Mechanical issue on his helicopter forced him to turn back
-Got extra tactical training as a result
-Graduation was split into two days
-On the first day they got their officer bars and on the second they got their wings
-Family showed up for graduation
-After the first day they had a party at the officers’ club
-Almost missed the second ceremony the next day
(00:33:06) Conditions at Fort Rucker
-Culture in south Alabama was vastly different than Ohio
-Excellent food
-Very Southern
-Enjoyable except for the bugs and the heat
-Fort Rucker was the most relaxed part of training
-As long as discipline was maintained the recruits were left alone
(00:35:35) Deployment to Vietnam
-Given thirty days of leave before reporting for deployment
-Reported to San Francisco, California
-Two days of paperwork before departing
-Left the country on a chartered airliner
-Flew up to Anchorage, Alaska to refuel
-From Alaska they flew to Bien Hoa Air Base near Saigon, Vietnam
(00:36:22) Arriving in Vietnam
-First impression of Vietnam was that it was hot, humid, and smelled awful
-Attached to 101st Airborne Division for a week of training
-Officially attached to A Troop, 2nd Squadron, 17th Cavalry, 101st Airborne Division
-Stationed in the I Corps region of Vietnam
-South Vietnam was split into four corps: I, II, III, IV
-Taught how to get used to the sounds, smells, and sights of fighting in Vietnam
(00:38:17) Camp Eagle
-Placed on C-130 cargo plane and flown up to A Troop
-Camp Eagle outside the city of Hue
-Camp Eagle was dug in and had a variety of aircraft
-A Troop was in charge of reconnaissance
-Relatively independent
-Worked with “hunter-killer” teams in the field
-Arrived at Camp Eagle in the middle of the night
-Told to find an empty bunk
(00:42:24) Adjusting to Vietnam
-Waking up in Vietnam was a shock
-Camp Eagle was surrounded by a field, made up of huts, a basic latrine, and helipads
�-Housing was extremely primitive
-Had to get used to feeling vulnerable to enemy artillery and enemy sappers
(00:45:23) First Assignment and Area of Operations
-First assignment was to fill sandbags
-Had to build sandbag fortifications that were ten feet high
-Started flying missions after a week
-Given option about what missions he could fly
-Chose to fly scouting missions because it meant the most flight time and action
-Flew an OH-6 Cayuse “Loach”
-Worked with an experienced scout to learn how to be a scout
-Taught to throw smoke grenades out the door to mark enemy positions
-Training lasted about a month
-Armed with a mini-gun that could fire four thousand rounds a minute
-Also carried smoke grenades, frag grenades, white phosphorus (incendiary) grenades
-Initial area of operations was the A Shau Valley
(00:49:01) Hamburger Hill
-His unit was involved in the Battle of Hamburger Hill
-He arrived a week after the fighting began
-Took enemy for the first time at Hamburger Hill
-Soldier from his unit initiated the battle by firing on North Vietnamese that were there
-By the time he arrived the hill had been leveled by bombardments
(00:52:01) Daily Routine in the A Shau Valley
-Started every day by flying “first light” missions (survey of firebases)
-Left at 6:15 AM to patrol the A Shau Valley
-Had to look for enemy activity and report it to Cobra gunship that followed him
-Landed at a firebase in the Valley and refuel
-Flew a “first light” mission down the Laotian border looking for NVA activity
-Had to fly at tree top level and deal with triple canopy jungle
-One time, on patrol, he found a downed Marine helicopter
-It had disappeared three years ago
-Only saw it because of the orange body
-Infantry was inserted to verify and investigate
-No bodies were found
-After first light missions flew support for the 3rd Battalion
-Flew in various areas they operated in looking for the enemy
-Stayed in the A Shau Valley from late June 1969 to January 1970
(00:56:01) Quang Tri
-Got sent to Quang Tri at the end of January 1970 in the middle of the night
-Located near the DMZ (demilitarized zone)
-Marine airbase
-Kept there a week before being told their assignment
-Assignment at Quang Tri was to support the 5th Marines leaving the DMZ
-Whole unit was moved at once to support the Marines there
-Flew scouting missions for a month at Quang Tri
�(00:56:55) Flying in Vietnam
-Monsoons made it difficult to fly
-Heavy rain and thick fog made it impossible to carry out scouting missions
-Almost had to spend the night in the A Shau Valley because of thick fog
-Used the minimal sunlight as a guide back to base
-Remembers training a new scout that managed to shoot a giant lizard from four thousand feet
-Flying down Highway 1 he got to pull tight, fast maneuvers
-Almost hit a Chinook helicopter that was doing the same thing
(01:00:57) Combat in Vietnam
-Learned how to shoot his .38 pistol from the helicopter
-Inaccurate and ineffective
-Kept holster between his legs for added protection
-Used mini-gun to wipe out NVA that were on the DMZ
-NVA had no idea what the helicopters were
-Remembers killing three NVA with no effort
-Realization didn’t sink in until later in the day
(01:03:18) Conditions on the DMZ
-DMZ had been softened by bombing runs
-NVA on the DMZ were still battle hardened and entrenched though
-NVA possessed high powered anti-aircraft guns
-Helicopter pilots avoided the Ho Chi Minh Trail
-B-52 bombers were ineffective at breaking the determination of the NVA
(01:05:04) My Lac
-Got transferred to My Lac for scouting missions
-Northwest of Quang Tri
-Mostly used for refueling and rearming
-Close to Khe Sanh
-Khe Sanh had been abandoned by the U.S. at this point
-Flew for the commanding officer there for about a month
-Commanding officer wanted a hog’s skull from one of the wild pigs at Khe Sanh
-Never managed to get one
-Remembers a colonel and pilot flew out to survey damage done by U.S. artillery
-Shot down within minutes
-Colonel took eighty gunshots
-Pilot took seventy gunshots
-After that he didn’t want to be a scout anymore
(01:07:27) Flying with a Lift Platoon
-After scouting flew Hueys or “slicks”
-Not as exciting
-Transferred to lift platoon (dealt with moving people and supplies)
-Spent the first half of 1970 doing lift platoon work
-Last five months of deployment
-Continued to operate in DMZ area
(01:08:22) Last Scouting Mission
-Last scouting mission was to extract a colonel from Dong Ha Mountain
-Monsoons had been on for three weeks
�-Awful visibility
-Had to use minimal sunlight to navigate
-Extracted him safely to Quang Tri
(01:09:48) Downed Aircraft Duty and Other Extractions
-A Troop was placed on downed aircraft duty for all of I Corps
-Extract downed personnel 24/7 anywhere in I Corps
-Aided the medevac helicopters by extracting some wounded
-Remembers a group of Army Rangers that needed extraction
-Pinned by a company of NVA, begging for help
-No ammo or rig to extract them with
-Eventually got an aerial bombardment in to wipe out the NVA around them
-Extracted surviving eight (out of twelve) Rangers
-Practiced rappelling into landing zones one day
-He opted out of trying it
-The day after that they had to fly into a “hot” (active) landing zone
-By the time they arrived the landing zone was cold (inactive)
-He had to fly his helicopter into the treetop after an infantryman cut the rope
-Rotor blades got chewed up
-Made it back to base but the $20,000 rotors were ruined
(01:15:40) Awareness of the Status of the War
-Had no idea how the war was actually going (good or bad)
-They mostly focused on helping each other
-Helped the ARVN (South Vietnamese Army) units occasionally
-He just wanted to do his duty and go home
(01:16:34) Vietnamese Civilians
-Saw very little of the Vietnamese civilians
-All cities and towns were off limits
-A special pass was required just to pass through the city of Hue
-Went through Hue and took some pictures
-It was an ancient Asian city
-He saw dead cats and dogs hanging in the marketplace
-Some Vietnamese civilians worked at Camp Eagle
-Maintenance workers
-One Vietnamese worker accidentally ruined the base’s generator
-Old Vietnamese man was the barber for a while
-Replacement from States became the barber after him
-Used the Vietnamese for some laundry services
-They used buffalo dung to heat the furnaces to dry the clothes
(01:19:51) General Morale in Vietnam
-Pilots were enthusiastic and enjoyed flying
-Infantry morale was terrible especially among the draftees
-He loved flying and flew every day for nine months
(01:20:52) Drugs and Race in Vietnam
-There were rumors of drugs being used by the infantry
-New pilot stumbled into the infantry latrine and saw some soldiers smoking weed
-Same pilot was later tasked with finding a missing swimming pool
�-He never saw racial tension while at Camp Eagle
-He and the rest of the pilots had to deal with Marines at Quang Tri who were troublemakers
(01:24:32) Patriotic Commander at Quang Tri
-New commander was particularly enthusiastic about serving
-Wanted to orchestrate a patriotic smoke display involving the helicopters
-Didn’t work at all
-Same commander wanted to greet the Thunderbirds with a white smoke display
-Accidentally used riot gas and they inadvertently tear gassed all of Quang Tri
(01:26:30) Leaving Vietnam
-Got out of Vietnam two and a half weeks earlier than he was supposed to
-He was supposed to fly a scouting mission
-Turned out that he was actually supposed to be in Cam Ranh Bay
-Got sent there and then sent home
-Saw a lot of warfare while in Vietnam which was expected
(01:28:19) Christmas 1969
-Looked forward to seeing Bob Hope perform for Christmas 1969 at Camp Eagle
-After a night of drinking on Christmas Eve he was selected to patrol Christmas Day
-He wanted to fly first light as quickly as possible and get back to base for the show
-While on patrol he orchestrated things so that mail and care packages could be dropped off
-Never got to see Bob Hope perform
-Helping the troops on Christmas Day was more of a reward than seeing the show
(01:31:17) Buying an MG after the War
-Later in life he bought an MG sports car
-He found a plate in the map pocket in the glove box
-Warrant officer candidate tag from Fort Walters in 1969
-Original owner had driven the MG at Fort Walters in 1969
-He (Noel) also drove an MG at Fort Walters in 1969
-He got into contact with the previous owner through his insurance agency
-They met and talked about Vietnam and he showed the MG to the original owner
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Veterans History Project
Creator
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Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
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1914-
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
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Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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MillerN1563V
Title
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Miller, Noel (Interview outline and video), 2013
Creator
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Miller, Noel
Description
An account of the resource
Noel Miller was born in Lima, Ohio in 1949. He grew up in Ohio, and after high school he wasn't sure what to do and decided to enlist in the Army in April 1968. He completed basic training at Fort Polk, Louisiana and helicopter aviation training at Fort Walters, Texas and Fort Rucker, Alabama where he graduated from in May 1969. He was deployed to Vietnam in June 1969 and was assigned to A Troop, 2nd Squadron, 17th Cavalry of the 101st Airborne Division stationed at Camp Eagle outside of Hue. From June 1969 to January 1970 he served at Camp Eagle and flew scouting patrols in the A Shau Valley until he and the rest of his unit was transferred to Quang Tri and My Lac located near the DMZ where he would serve the last five months of his deployment.
Contributor
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Smither, James (Interviewer)
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
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eng
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2013-12-19
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
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application/pdf
video/mp4
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d32d7e8b85c55e5744f532e2078c6400.mp4
f4d3f7abf6d394cda078942f01f639b4
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2f3f19fe2daa932285eabc1b0c6252b8.pdf
b9f0f61327b1246453e21a3ef9d7b72a
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Vietnam War
Tim Newman
2:02:52
Introduction (00:21)
Tim was born in Buffalo, New York on February 25, 1948, in the lower east side of the
city. His family lived in a two room apartment until his father moved them into a two
family house which gave the family three bedrooms.
He went through a Catholic grade school, and then attended a public high school. This
was a culture shock for him because it was the first time that he mingled with inner-city
kids.
The high school was Emerson Vocational High School. There he took up drafting and
tool design, with the ambition of opening his own drafting shop and own his own
business. He also wanted to be a professional basketball player but two things held him
back: talent and height.
Along with playing basketball, he also ran cross-country and track. (1:56)
After high school, he went to a business school, but with two months to go until
graduation, he was drafted. Since it was not an accredited school, he did not qualify for a
student deferment.
At that point, Tim did not know much about Vietnam, he paid more attention to sports.
Basic Training (3:42)
He reported in on October 6, 1969. He was twenty years old. After getting his draft
notice, he reported to the draft board and they were given their physical. At the time,
many people were trying to get out of the service.
Tim‟s father was a Marine in the South Pacific, his grandfather and his great-grandfather
were also in the service. He felt that it was his duty to serve. (5:50)
He reported to Fort Dix, New Jersey and again got another culture shock about being
yelled and screamed at before he even got off the bus.
From Buffalo to New Jersey, they were flown, and then took a series of busses to the
base. Upon arrival, they were still in their civilian clothes, they took everything and
shipped it home and were then issued their uniforms, given another physical and
paperwork. (7:40)
Basic training was the best thing that ever happened to Tim, because he was broken down
and then built back up and made him see what he could do and accomplish. He was
trained to react and make decisions. The training was good and tough.
When in basic, he had to crawl through mud, shoot a rifle, throw grenades and taught you
military life. Later, he was given the chance to fill out applications about where he would
be best suited job wise, he chose typing and computers. (10:20)
He failed the typing test, so he stayed where he was.
�
His confidence grew so much, as well as his trust in his fellow soldiers. Even though he
thought much of his basic training was stupid, he would come to see the wisdom in the
program. He got up at 3am, had to “shit, shower and shave” in fifteen minutes. (12:01)
At 3:30 am they were standing on the PT (physical training) field waiting to exercise.
Their drill sergeant was an animal, he could do one handed push-ups without even
bothering him. They also did push-ups, sit-ups and ran. Tim went into the service
weighing 128 pounds and left weighing 170. (13:09)
Most of the men with him were 18 or 19, some of them enlisted, while others were
drafted. Meeting all the different people was another culture shock; such as men from the
west coast who were really laid back, the rednecks from the south, the blacks from the
south who did not get along with the rednecks, then the men from the north such as New
York and Michigan. (15:08)
They had one guy that was just like the comic strip character Sad Sack, his nickname was
Scooter, and he always screwed up everything that he did. When they graduated,
everyone had their gear and pack on for their final parade ceremony and Scooter's pack
and poncho unraveled and dragged behind him like a tail. Tim said he has many good
memories of basic training such as that.
Knowing that he would benefit from the training in the long run, he went with and made
the best of it. (17:15)
Advanced Training (17:18)
After basic, Tim was sent to Fort Lewis, Washington for his advanced training. There,
they were not yelled at and were treated with more respect. They were also given
weekend leave; they often traveled to Seattle, Portland and British Columbia. Even
though British Columbia was off limits because it was in Canada, they snuck there on
occasion to sight see.
On base, different religious denominations would take soldiers into their homes for the
weekend which did not count as leave. While there they would get good home cooked
meals and a comfortable bed to sleep in. The family that took him had seven daughters
that aged from two to twelve. (19:17)
At advanced training, he was assigned to the infantry. There he learned more about
shooting, field work, such as camping and survival training, and learned about more than
just the M-16, but also pistols, machine guns and grenade launchers. (21:45)
Fort Lewis was set up for World War II, not Vietnam. Much of their training was in a
classroom setting. Their training lacked the realistic elements of jungle warfare or urban
village training. (23:47)
Vietnam was a war without boundaries, nothing was off limits, and they were taught to
expect constant movement and how the enemy was thinking at the time. (26:38)
Tim finished AIT (Advanced Infantry Training) in January. He was then given a two
week leave to go home. He had already been given orders to Vietnam. 90% of the men
with him in AIT went to Vietnam.
His parents took him to the airport and no one was talking when suddenly on the radio
“I‟m Leaving on a Jet Plane” started playing. (28:03)
�
From the airport, he was sent to Fort Ord for processing over to Vietnam. Within 24
hours of arrival you‟re already shipped out; Tim remembers being assigned a bunk, but
he never was given a chance to sleep in it.
Vietnam (29:03)
The tour started the minute you got on the plane, so Day 1 was spent flying overseas.
The stewardesses started out being nice and good looking, but when you were half way
there they were middle aged, and when you got to Vietnam you got the old ones.
They stopped at Hawaii for an hour layover, which was uneventful because the airport
was closed and it was night time. (29:38)
Tim remembers the first thing to hit him once he got off the plane in Vietnam was the
heat and humidity. Their plane landed in Phu Bai. Once he arrived, they again went
through processing which included more paper work, and some training.
The plane landed during the day under military escort Phantoms. Some of the training
that they got at this time was what they would encounter in country as far as diseases,
insects, and how to perform field hygiene. (31:15)
All men were assigned their units while at Phu Bai, Tim was one of four that was picked
for the 101st Airborne Division. He was then put on a C-47 and taken to his unit at Camp
Evans. (33:00)
Tim was assigned to the 101st Airborne, 2nd Battalion, 506th Regiment. He did not see
them until he went out into the field. To reduce his rucksack weight from 90 pounds to
50 pounds, he removed underwear, socks, books and other miscellaneous items that he
would not need. He was told to bring a toothbrush, one pair of socks, no underwear,
ammunition, rifle, two bandoliers and hand grenades.
When he finally made it to the field, they landed in a hot LZ (landing zone) and he was
fired upon. (35:19)
His unit was in the mountains and hills, and he was assigned to Alpha Company, he was
taken in by a group of men who were also from New York, they called themselves the
Yankees. (37:45)
After landing under fire, the firefight went on for about another half hour. Tim laid low
until it died down, because he did not know what to do or what was going on.
They told him “to listen, respect his surroundings, respect your enemy and hopefully
you‟ll make it through” (39:38)
When Tim‟s company got a new CO, Hawkins, he said he would follow that man to Hell
and back. He had a great amount of respect for him.
His first field time was two weeks, and it was always wet, and rained constantly. They
always kept an extra pair of socks to keep their feet dry. (41:57)
During his first field experience, they had one enemy contact. They were hit at night, and
their Lieutenant gave the order “on line charge”, Tim was the assistant machine gunner
for a man named Tiny, who was 6‟6”, 250 lbs who manned an M-60. (43:26)
They had a couple of guys who got wounded, so Tim had to get the wounded out and
picked them up with a poncho, and had to haul them uphill and one click away at night.
The man he was carrying had a leg wound, and he was given morphine and every time
they bumped something he would scream and swear in pain. Tim later found out that that
man died on the helicopter from shock and loss of blood. (45:58)
�
After that, they were brought back into the rear for a couple of day‟s stand-down, and
while in the rear they had their weapons taken away and locked up in a locker.
Most of the attacks on the rear base were mostly mortar rounds landing in the base.
Camp Evans was a big base that had the 101st, two helicopter squadrons, the motor pool,
a PX and many other things. (47:50)
Some of the men would smoke drugs while in the rear, but never in the field. They
would also drink, and experienced racial tensions between the whites and blacks.
Tension also existed between the rear personnel and the field soldiers. (49:50)
Ripcord (50:38)
They always traveled around their AO (Area of Operation) in helicopters, and when they
were not at a firebase at night, they would pull guard duty that started around 6 or 7 pm
and each watch would last two hours. Tim always liked to do the first or last watch
because they got the most uninterrupted sleep. (52:44)
At night the platoon would dig trenches or foxholes if needed, and set up their hooch‟s to
sleep in. All they had to eat was C-rations, which came in a case of 24 meals that each
man would carry in his rucksack, along with their water, ammunition and other things
they would require. (54:39)
Each man in the platoon would often carry extra ammo for the M-60 gunner, which they
happily did. Great lengths were taken to keep their ammo clean and dry, especially the
M-60 ammo.
During the summer, Tim would carry between 10-12 quarts of water. One water bladder
would hold 5 quarts, 2- 2quart containers, and 2- 1 quart containers that totaled around
12. The water alone would weigh twenty pounds. (56:39)
Average rucksack weight was 50-60 lbs.
While they set up Firebase Ripcord, Tim worked a lot of guard duty, and worked one
week on, one week off.
Tim did not know the significance of the area or of Ripcord at the time. (58:53)
When Tim first joined the unit, the platoon leader was on his way out and the new one
was Pahissa, he was killed at Ripcord. His platoon [company?] had 60-65 men and his
squad size was 10-12. They were under strength for most of the time, with sizes getting
smaller as Ripcord went on. (1:01:04)
Tim was in the Ripcord area in late spring, March, April, May and June 1970, he was
moving in the hills around Ripcord, and would periodically rotate onto the base at
Ripcord. Being on the base was eerie.
Time on the base was boring, because they had nothing to do except pull guard duty and
relieve the other men on watch. (1:03:05)
It was uneventful on the base, except when mortars came in from the VC.
They would also patrol 100-200 meters outside the wire to do security and search for
weapons and such.
Between March and July 22, they had experienced 32 firefights. Some major, some
minor. They found lots of spider holes while on patrol in the hills.
Hawkins was the new company commander that came from Delta Company. At first,
Tim was scared of him. (1:06:10)
�
Tim describes Hawkins as like John Wayne, but he tried not to put his men into a position
where they couldn‟t win, but Tim thought he was a soldier‟s soldier. He has a high
amount of respect for him. He was able to perform five different things at once and not
falter at any of them.
Hawkins respected his men and got their respect in return. (1:09:19)
Once the entire battalion was called back to Camp Evans, each man was given new
fatigues, boots, web gear, a fresh haircut, took a shower and stood in formation while
General Abrams flew over in a helicopter. Afterwards, they had to turn in all their new
equipment and were back in the field.
Bombardment of Ripcord intensified on July 1st. During that time, Tim‟s company was
doing a lot of recon. Their Kit Carson Scout found a phone line along the trail and they
tapped into it and were listening to the enemy talking back and forth. He found out that
they knew about them, what they were doing, and where they were. (1:12:05)
On the radio, the scout also learned that the NVA had two battalions ready to attack
Ripcord.
After moving out of the area that night, Tim said that they could smell the NVA, they
were that close. (1:14:52)
The platoon was supposed to be extracted at 1pm the following afternoon, but they were
attacked, and the battle lasted over six hours. Their position was overrun, so the
company commander, Hawkins, called in a 250 lb. bomb to be dropped on their location.
(1:16:14)
At this point, Tim was a rifleman. (1:17:44)
After the bomb hit, the enemy started to retreat, and Tim and his platoon began to form a
line. The casualties for the battle were 14 dead, 56 wounded and 6 that were unscathed.
Out of the 56 wounded, 14 could still fire their weapon. (1:19:44)
Once the perimeter was made, Hawkins had to leave the seriously wounded outside the
perimeter because they could not spread out enough to cover them all. The moans and
cries of the men left out there was horrible for the men inside.
Gunships and flare-ships stayed on scene all night, which kept them all alive.
During the night, the men thought they would be overrun, but they found out years later
that they had killed all the enemy leaders and the NVA were so scattered that they could
not mobilize another attack. (1:21:57)
That day they were attacked by an entire battalion of NVA regulars against 76 American
soldiers.
Delta Company was supposed to come in that night to relieve Alpha Company, but due to
fire on the LZ, they were forced to wait till morning. They left at 6am and took 45
minutes to make it within a mile of their perimeter. (1:23:14)
Delta then came under fire, and was forced to leave their rear squad behind and hurried to
Alpha.
The point man for Delta could not believe the amount of dead bodies and carnage that
they saw. Tim had to retrieve the bodies of those left outside the perimeter and bring
them to the helicopters. Hawkins was the last man off the battlefield and Tim credits his
actions that day for keeping as many alive as there was. (1:25:16)
�
When they were extracted they were sent to the rear at Eagle Beach for a week of stand
down. While there, they had a memorial for the 14 men killed. Tim remembers that after
the memorial service, everyone stayed in their barracks for two days. (1:27:09)
Twenty men in the company were left still able to perform their duty; those men were
divided into other companies.
Tim was reassigned as the company RTO for 1st Platoon, 1st Squad. They were also
resupplied with gear and equipment and also a fresh company of soldiers.
All of the new officers were fresh out of West Point and had no combat experience.
(1:29:24)
Towards the end of the war, the men were placed in positions where they wouldn‟t be hit.
The last six months of Tim‟s tour they were only hit once or twice.
Tim left the field in January, and left country in July.
Winding Down (1:30:56)
To entertain the troops, they had a tent that they could watch movies, a bar and a steamy
cream (a place for the men to have a good time).
Officers and Enlisted facilities were together, and a bottle of beer cost a nickel, a shot and
a beer cost fifty cents.
They also had a beach that they could enjoy.
The base was relatively secure, with little chance of being hit.
The rear bases had civilian populations that lived on them, such as „hooch mates‟ who
were paid by the troops to clean their living quarters, shine their boots and they also
worked in the PX and in the kitchen. (1:32:46)
While they were paid by the United States Government, they were also sympathizers with
the VC, and they were blamed for walking rounds onto target while on base during night
attacks.
Not much was seen of the Vietnamese military. American pilots would often fly with a
Vietnamese pilot because it was known that the American knew the country better than
the natives, and the Vietnamese helicopter pilots usually got lost. (1:34:21)
Kit Carson scouts were also used by the American Military, they were recruited by
dropping pamphlets by helicopter, which offered to send them to the States to
Americanize them, pay them and in turn they would give away the positions of the VC
and NVA. To protect their families, they were placed in special camps.
In Tim‟s experience, the Kit Carson program did not work very well. In many cases the
Kit Carson intentionally placed American platoons into ambushes, and then turned to the
other side. (1:36:46)
The Kit Carson in Tim‟s platoon disappeared during Ripcord. The men often did not
trust them.
Ripcord events were not really known until 1985, because the war was winding down and
men were not supposed to be engaged in heavy combat. (1:38:40)
After ten months, Tim was granted R&R in Australia. Everyone out in the field got one
week recreation either in country or out. Japan, Taiwan, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Australia
and Hawaii were some of the choices. Though Hawaii was mostly reserved for married
men because it was closer for families to come and visit them.
�
Single men usually chose Australia, because they were sick of seeing oriental people and
wanted to get away. (1:40:08)
They flew on commercial jets, once he had been given his orders, a colonel wanted to go
to Australia too, but it was full so he tried to use rank to bump Tim off the flight. Since
Tim had ten months in country and the colonel only had eight or nine months, Tim was
able to keep his ticket.
Three guys went AWOL while there, a major, an NCO and a noncom.
The Australian attitude was excellent towards the Americans, they could tell the
Americans because of their short haircut and they were all sun burnt.
At a clothing depot, for two hundred dollars, a weeks worth of clothing could be
purchased.
Australians would approach the Americans and thank them for their service and share
tips on finding the best restaurants and where they could find action. (1:42:12)
Once, Tim was sitting in a small mom and pop restaurant and he was approached by a
young couple, they had him finish his meal with them and then took him on a tour of the
city in their little Volkswagen Beetle, and then dropped him off at his hotel and wished
him good luck.
Australian military service was for twelve years, but four to eight of it was in school.
Once returning to Vietnam, he did not have to go back into the field. His Top (Master
Sergeant) only had one or two months left, so he got Tim a job as a driver for the
Assistant Commander of the Base. (1:43:58)
He was given a drivers test, and learned to drive a stick. But he was on call twenty four
hours a day, so he did not have any other duties. If the Lieutenant Colonel had to go to a
village off base or driven around on base, Tim was required to drive him.
Leaving Country (1:45:08)
When they were leaving, they were outside, and they saw the shadow of a plane.
Suddenly, spotlights were turned on and there was the plane. The men all ran to the
plane in fear of being hit by mortars.
The flight attendants were all middle-aged women, and as they got closer and closer to
the States they got younger and younger.
Ten minutes into the flight, everyone was dead silent and they all cried because of the
men they left behind and for those who were killed.
The flight coming home took forever. Their plane landed at Fort Lewis. Mid flight, they
stopped in Alaska to get their change of orders. The men were all in their summer
fatigues and it was twenty degrees below zero at the Alaskan airport. (1:47:45)
From Alaska, they went to Guam for refueling then on to Fort Lewis.
Tim arrived home at 2am. He was supposed to report to Fort Benning, Georgia for the
rest of his tour. Instead he was sent to Fort Lewis and then was given orders home.
(1:50:01)
Tim flew coach and had to sit next an old lady, who turned and saw that he was wearing
an Army uniform. She asked him if he was one of the good guys who went to Germany
or stayed in the States, he said “No, I was in Vietnam” and she said “Oh, one of those
guys”. She then called the stewardess and refused to sit next to him, and said that either
she or he be moved. She was moved to first class.
�
Once home, Tim received by his parents with tears of joy, but his friends did not know
how to react to him and he did not know how to react to them either. One long time
buddy took him out when he first went home, showed him how he could pop wheelies in
his car, went to a few bars and has not seen him since. (1:52:17)
Tim did not have anything in common with his friends or family and shut himself up for
a long time.
Tim was then on inactive reserve for four years, but did not have to report for duty.
He went back to his old job at the shoe store, and was made manager. He stayed in retail
for a while and tried to keep an active social life. Tim also had two months of school left
so he returned and got two degrees, one in sales management and the other in marketing
management.
While in school, Tim met his wife during the second week of classes and has been with
her ever since. (1:55:00)
It took Tim thirty years before he could really talk about his experiences. His kids helped
him be able to talk about it, because they were really interested and proud of his service.
Five years ago, he was able to get into a PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) group
that has helped him.
It was not until about ten years ago that he opened back up to his family and gained
additional support from them. (1:57:32)
Tim feels that Vietnam Vets are just now getting the recognition that they deserve. He
went down to his father‟s VFW to join, but was turned away because he was a Vietnam
Vet and they said that it was not a war it was a conflict, and besides that they lost the war.
Tim was told that he did not belong with them. Tim‟s father went back with him and
asked why he was not able to join. They told him kid or no kid, he can‟t join. So Tim‟s
father went over and grabbed his file, tore it up and said “If you won‟t have my kid you
won‟t have me anymore”; his father never went back to the post. (1:59:26)
Tim feels that the veterans coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan are getting the
treatment they deserve, but he has a love/hate relationship with them. He loves that they
went and served their country, but hates all the publicity that they get and he is envious of
them.
Once he retires, Tim would like to work with the VA to help veterans coming back with
similar physical and mental conditions. (2:01:06)
PTSD treatment did not really exist until about fifteen years ago. When he first went to
the VA for PTSD, he was told to quick drinking and stop taking aspirin and he would be
okay.
Tim does not like that the public still looks at Vietnam Veterans as baby killers and
druggies, because there are many good veterans out there.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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NewmanT1463V
Title
A name given to the resource
Newman, Timothy (Interview outline and video), 2012
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Newman, Timothy
Description
An account of the resource
Tim was born in Buffalo, New York in 1948, and was drafted in the United States Army in 1969. After becoming an infantryman, Tim was sent to Vietnam and was assigned to the 101st Airborne, 2/506th, A Company. He served with his company through the Ripcord campaign during the spring of 1970 and was one of the handful of men in his company to survive it unscathed. He spent most of his tour in the field, but served the final weeks as a jeep driver at Camp Evans.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Army
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012-11-11
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/db1f8a95e07117f0984ee28f486b277a.mp4
f6584f68244e99565ae2981e320aab54
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/22d822fd5322ed2f7437b8ffa4ca12a1.pdf
4d425a54419a8580657d1520dd4646ca
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of Interview: Woodrow Neumann
Name of War: World War II
Length of Interview: (00:34:12)
(00:15) Background Information
•
•
•
•
•
Woodrow was born in Flint, Michigan on July 8, 1918
He came from a German Catholic family with 9 brothers and 4 sisters
Woodrow’s father worked as a machinist for Buick, but lost the house during the
Depression and then his family moved to Mount Morris
Woodrow went to Saint Mary’s Catholic School in Flint through 8th grade and then went
to Mount Morris High School
After high school Woodrow worked for about two years before being drafted in 1941
(4:40) Training
•
•
•
•
•
Woodrow was stationed in San Francisco for training and he found it to be very boring
Woodrow wanted to get into more action and volunteered to be in the Air Corps
He was transferred to Fort Bragg in North Carolina where he went through a lot of testing
before training to be a paratrooper
There was mostly infantry training; the men would jump into wooded areas out of C46s
and C47s and get ready for combat after landing
Woodrow graduated and received his paratrooper wings
(9:30) Europe
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
Woodrow was part of the 101st Airborne Division and sent to England
They dropped in on France on D Day
The trip across the Atlantic was nice, the weather was good and he did not get sick
The men were stationed about 60 miles from London and worked for several months
preparing for the drop
They were allowed 2 breaks a week when they went into town and hung out in bars
Woodrow thought all the people there were nice and enjoyed working with the British
soldiers
Things became more strict and the men trained more often as they got closer to D Day
The men did not know when they were dropping until the night before
�(15:00) France
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
The men arrived at the airport at about 3 in the morning
It was very dark as they flew over the channel and they could not see a thing
The men were dropped 6 miles from shore before the beach troops landed
The idea was for them to attack the enemy and push them towards shore toward the beach
troops
25 men were dropped out of Woodrow’s plane and he was the sergeant on board
Thousands of men were dropped out of the 101st, 82nd, and 17th [the 17th was not involved
in the Normandy invasion] Airborne Divisions
Woodrow could not see where he was landing and hit a hill badly, breaking his leg
Woodrow was very scared because he could barely walk and was worried about being
attacked
He eventually hobbled along and found his men, who helped him make it out of the area
and found a medic
Woodrow was put on a ship and taken to England
(22:14) Back to US
•
•
•
Woodrow had his leg set and bandaged in England; he was in the hospital for three days
He got on a ship headed to the US and remained in another hospital after landing for a
short amount of time
Woodrow then went back to the paratroop school and became an instructor
(27:05) Michigan
• Woodrow took some time off and then began selling cars at Applegate Chevrolet in Flint
for 18 years
• He got married in 1947 and thought he did not want any kids because he would not want
them to have to fight in any wars like he did
• Woodrow later greatly regretted now having any children
• He is now living at the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
NeumannW
Title
A name given to the resource
Neumann, Woodrow J., (Interview outline and video), 2007
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Neumann, Woodrow J.
Description
An account of the resource
Woodrow Neumann was born in Flint, Michigan on July 8, 1918. He grew up in a large family of 14 children and went to a Catholic school. After graduating high school Woodrow worked for 2 years before being drafted. He went through basic training in San Francisco and then went to paratrooper school at Fort Brag in North Carolina. Woodrow was part of the group of men that dropped into France on D Day, but unfortunately broke his leg landing. Woodrow was transferred to a hospital in England and then sent back to the US. He then became an instructor at the paratrooper school.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer)
Collins, Carol (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2007-05-15
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e5a52eff36c0523d32e7f7e583641498.mp4
c4bf91abc06a562446734c704ba26967
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5e35b7ff92a07afb27b6569f59b6cedd.pdf
09818a0c6812640ca13dea49a7584c3e
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Larry Nelson
World War II
1 hour 6 minutes 34 seconds
(00:00:16) Early Life
-Born in Warren, Ohio in 1924
-Grew up in Warren and attended high school there
-Father was an accountant
-Mother was a housewife
-Father worked for Republic Steel Corporation
-Kept his job through the Great Depression
-Still was affected by pay cuts
-Grew up an only child
-His father was very interested in flight and aircraft and took Larry to air shows and airports
(00:01:35) Start of WWII and Military Involvement
-Remembers that his father followed the war in Europe before America got involved
-He eventually got involved with the military because of his father’s interest in the war
-Mother wasn’t happy about his joining the military
-In 1942 he signed up for the Air Cadets at Ohio State University
-Sponsored by the U.S. Army Air Corps
-Had tried to enlist in the Navy and got told that he was only eligible for the Army
-At Ohio State University ROTC (rear officers’ training corps) was mandatory
-Being in the Air Cadets satisfied that requirement
-Remembers sitting at his desk doing homework when his father told him about Pearl Harbor
-Remembers how somber his father was and didn’t grasp the severity until later
-Started noticing friends joining the armed forces
-He joined the Army with an understanding that he would be deferred for four years
-Two months later after joining his deferment was cancelled
(00:04:43) Army Air Corps Primary Training
-First phase of training was primary training in San Antonio, Texas
-Was sent there in February 1943
-Primary training was essentially an accelerated form of Army basic training
-Given physical and mental tests
-Passing those put him on the track to becoming a pilot
-Based on your test you would either become a bomber pilot or a fighter pilot
-He was selected, and wanted to be a fighter pilot
-Had been inspired by the air races that he had seen as a kid
-Primary training consisted of a lot of physical training during the first few weeks
-Spent most of the time running and doing calisthenics
-Primary training lasted about two or three months
(00:08:32) Army Air Corps Flight Training
-Sent to Chickasaw, Oklahoma for fighter pilot training
-Trained with Fairchild PT19: open cockpit, low winged, and fun to fly
�-First part of pilot training lasted two months
-Trained with sixty other trainees
-Fair amount of them dropped out because they couldn’t grasp flying
-Had civilian instructors training them
-One was a Czech military pilot
(00:10:50) Army Air Corps Basic Training
-After Chickasaw they started training with the Vultee BT 13 Valiant
-Learned how to perform aerial maneuvers in the BT 13
-Flight training in the BT 13 was accelerated
-Had to be ready to move onto the advanced course in two months
-Because of this the Air Corps wanted men who had had some college experience
-Some trainees just couldn’t keep up during basic training or others died
-During this second part of training they were operating out of Coffeyville, Kansas
-Soldiers nicknamed it “Coffinville” because of high rate of trainees dying
-Flew training missions at night and cross country
-Prepared for flying at any time and to anywhere
-At each base during training he always had to find two things for downtime:
-A girl to date and a restaurant that could make him a BLT and a chocolate shake
-Remembers dating a banker’s daughter
-Got to drive the father’s brand new car as a result
(00:14:36) Army Air Corps Advanced Training
-Went to advanced training in Texas
-Worked with the AT6: high powered training aircraft
-Got introduced to flying the P40 fighter plane
-Had to learn how to fly it on his own
-No room for an instructor to fly with him
-Flying the P40 was an extremely different experience
-Incredibly powerful aircraft
-Remembers the first time he took off in one
-Most trainees were skilled enough that by advanced training accidents rarely if never happened
-Trained with thirty other trainees
-Same soldiers that he had started with
(00:17:41) P47 Thunderbolt Training
-After advanced training he was sent to Bruning, Nebraska
-Began training with the P47 Thunderbolt
-Larger, heavier aircraft
-Once again had to learn how to fly it on his own because it was a single seat aircraft
-Started off by simply learning how to fly the aircraft
-Later graduated on to learning how to properly fly in formation
(00:19:18) Weapons Training with the P47 Thunderbolt
-Sent to Pierre, South Dakota for weapons training in the P47
-Skip bombing: flying in low and skipping a bomb into a target
-Strafing a target with machine guns
-Tow target: One plane towed a target while the other planes shot at the moving target
-Never encountered female pilots during his training
-There weren’t very many training accidents during weapons training
�-Some pilots did crash on a rare occasion during a dive bombing training run
-Learned how to skip a bomb into a hangar
-Also was taught how to properly use wing tip gas tanks as skip bombs
-After two months P47 training was complete
(00:22:12) Deployment to Europe
-After completing all of his training he was sent to Baton Rouge, Louisiana in August 1943
-Spent a month there practicing and preparing to be deployed
-Remembers that the place smelled like oil
-Sent to Norfolk, Virginia to board the Queen Elizabeth troop transport with 15000 other soldiers
-Took five days to travel from the United States to the English Isles
-Moved quickly because they didn’t travel with an escort
-Landed in Glasgow, Scotland
-Started to get organized and prepared to set up in England
-Remembers doing kitchen duty on the ship and plucking feathers off of chickens
-Remembers a soldier from Texas snuck a coyote pup on board with him
-Wound up flying a few missions with him
-Eventually got killed by being run over by an Army truck
-Seasickness was a problem on the voyage over
(00:26:55) Getting Established in England
-After Glasgow, Scotland they were moved to Shrewsbury, England
-Thunderbolt base was nearby
-Became active after D-Day happened
-Ten pilots were selected to be the replacements for the 78th Fighter Group
-Spent a month in Shrewsbury, England
-English men didn’t care for the American men
-Visited London
-English girls and older people welcomed the Americans
-Got attached to the 78th Fighter Group in Duxford outside of Cambridge
-He was part of the 82nd Squadron
-Practiced his flying for a month while waiting in Duxford
(00:30:23) First Missions
-First mission that he took part in was a “maximum effort” missions
-All available aircraft were called up to participate
-He was given a clunker P47 and it couldn’t even really get airborne
-Crashed into the trees at the end of the runway
-Wasn’t injured or blamed for the plane crashing
-Afterwards was assigned a brand new P47
-Second mission a week later went very well
-He was able to keep up and do what he was supposed to do
-Ran into forty German Me-109s while escorting American bombers
-Managed to scatter the enemy fighters and complete the mission
(00:32:57) Mission Conditions
-Usually sent out three squadrons with each bombing run
-One squadron would attack ground targets while the other two protected the bombers
-The squadrons would swap during missions to attack and defend
-When one attack run was over another squadron would swoop in
�-He and the other P47s never really had planned targets
-Looked for “targets of opportunity”
-Remembers targeting trains specifically during missions
-Bombers targeted the cities of Munster and Cologne especially
-Always managed to avoid bombing or strafing the Cologne Cathedral
(00:34:38) Encounters with the Enemy and Aircraft Quality
-Remembers the first, and only time that he shot down a German aircraft
-It was the jet powered Me-262
-Able to catch it just as it was taking off
-Allies had better pilots, better planes, and there were more risk takers in the ranks
-All in all it made for a better air force
-Used the P47 not only for attacks and defending bombers, but also for dogfighting
-In December 1944 they switched from flying the P47 to flying the P51 Mustang
-Mustang was easier to fly
-Lighter, more powerful, and more nimble
-The German Me-109 was comparable to just about anything the Allies had
-The German Fw-190 was not as good as the other German aircraft
-The German Me-262 was fast, sleek, and one of the first jet fighters
-Pilots weren’t very good though and it was terrible on gas
(00:39:24) Interactions with the English in Duxford
-Community around Duxford was a typical English one
-Small town, more to do in Cambridge
-Lots of pubs to attend in the area
-Remembers that the ceilings were so low you had to duck
-Went to dances fairly regularly
(00:40:18) Flight Conditions
-Sometimes got woken up at 4 AM because you were one of the scheduled pilots for that day
-If it was a “maximum effort” mission everyone got up at the same time
-On the days that you flew missions you were rewarded with a fresh egg for breakfast
-Considered a luxury and a treat
-Bomber crews had to be up at 2 or 3 AM
-Took off first then the fighters took off later and caught up to them
-Fighters flew above and below the bombers for optimum defense
-Usually created massive formations of aircraft
-Flak posed a far greater threat to bombers than to fighters
-Does remember one fighter next to him taking a direct flak hit though
-Usually flew at around 15,000 feet
-German fighters usually looked for isolated groups of bombers that weren’t as defended
-Strategy was to fly straight at the German fighters, opening fire to scatter them
-Flew from right after D-Day all the way up to Victory in Europe Day (May 8, 1945)
-Flew sixty six missions
(00:45:19) Relationship with Other Soldiers
-Squadron lost a fair amount of guys
-Either killed or shot down and he never found out what happened to those shot down
-Tried to ignore the absence of those that were shot down, made it easier
-By the end of the war he and one other pilot were the only original members left
�-He never got hit by enemy fire
-Had a ground crew of three personnel
-A crew chief, an armorer, and a weapons technician
-Armorer and armorer’s family later attended his wedding
-Maintained a strong connection over the years
-Made lifelong friendships with other pilots that he met during the war
(00:48:33) Awareness of the War’s Progress
-He and the other soldiers were kept fairly well informed of the war’s progress
-Regularly shown maps showing the advancing Allied frontlines
-Given briefings that gave details of how much progress the Allies were making
-Read the Stars and Stripes military newspaper
-Also offered news telling how the war was going for the Allies
(00:49:08) Battle of the Bulge
-When the Battle of the Bulge began their flight activity increased
-Some pilots had to fly two missions a day
-Frequency of “maximum effort” missions increased
-Allied soldiers wore colored vests to denote that they weren’t enemy targets
-Also usually had soldiers on the ground coordinating targets for pilots
-Tanks and railroad cars took top priority for attacks
-Focus was denying armored firepower and supplies to the Germans
-.50 caliber armor piercing incendiary rounds were extremely effective against tanks
-Bombs were still the weapon of choice against armor though
-Winter weather made it harder to fly missions
-Snowstorms and low clouds were highly detrimental to visibility
(00:52:05) Other Details and Later Missions
-Didn’t like to fly over
-Remembers flying raids against the V2 Rocket facility located at Peenemunde
-Started flying missions to Berlin in January 1945
-P51 allowed for longer range due to better fuel capacity
-Attacked everything that they could around and in Berlin
-Missions to Berlin were extremely long
(00:52:55) USO Shows
-Movie stars would routinely visit the base as a part of the USO shows
-Got to meet the movie star Marlena Dietrich
-Got an autograph from her
-Also got to see Bing Crosby, Bob Hope, and Francis Langford
-Remembers that it was always a big occasion when a USO show was on
(00:55:12) End of the War and Coming Home Pt. 1
-Looked forward to the end of the war in Europe
-But knew that he would have to go and fight in the Pacific and Japan
-Got sent to Santa Anna, California after two weeks of leave
-His orders were to be deployed to Okinawa
-After the atomic bombs were dropped that deployment was cancelled
-He was sent to Fort Thomas, Kentucky to wait to be discharged
-Those with the most “points” (combat time, commendations) got out first
-He was one of the first ones discharged
�-Recommended to go to the University of Pennsylvania
-Passed their tests but found out he would have to go for four years
-They wouldn’t accept any of the credits from Ohio State
-Returned to Ohio State and got his degree in two and a half years
-Remembers when President Roosevelt died
-Everyone was extremely somber
-News travelled quickly concerning that
-Didn’t know much, if anything about Harry Truman
(00:57:23) Details about Rank and Other Memories of the War
-By the end of the war he was the most experienced pilot left in his squadron
-His position was element leader
-Equivalent to a 1st Lieutenant in the Army
-Led four planes in an element
-Two pairs per element and each pair tended to work independently
-Had a few close calls during his time in the service
-Oddly enough nothing really during combat, but during his training missions
-Got lost flying over the Gulf of Mexico once
-Was able to find his way to Corpus Christi, Texas and land there
(01:00:31) End of the War and Coming Home Pt. 2
-Before Germany surrendered he knew that the war in the Pacific would drag on longer
-He was in England when Germany surrendered
-Went back to the United States on a much smaller ship
-Only capable of carrying a couple hundred soldiers
-Landed in Norfolk, Virginia and took a train back to Ohio for a couple weeks leave
-Always was astounded by the level of organization necessary to carry out the war effort
-Traveled across the country to California by train in club cars
-Took the Santa Fe Scout to California
-No air conditioning in the cars, humid, and no air circulation
-Allowed to stop in towns along the way to get food at restaurants
-Remembers that troop trains took priority on the tracks
(01:03:50) Life after the War and Reflections on Service
-When the war ended and he was discharged there was no push to reenlist
-Military made it very apparent that the decision was entirely his
-He chose not to reenlist
-Knew some pilots that stayed in and went on to fly jets for the Air Force
-At Ohio State University he majored in accounting-general business
-Got an accounting job in Kalamazoo, Michigan and moved there
-Worked in accounting for thirty six years
-Still lives in Kalamazoo
-Military gave him direction in life
-Wife was the first girl that he met at Ohio State
-Had two classes together during his junior year
-They’ve been married for sixty seven years
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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NelsonL1650V
Title
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Nelson, Larry (Interview outline and video), 2014
Creator
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Nelson, Larry
Description
An account of the resource
Larry Nelson was born in Warren, Ohio in 1924. He grew up there and attended high school there. After graduating from high school he attended Ohio State University, and after Pearl Harbor was bombed he decided to enlist in the Army Air Corps to become a fighter pilot. Beginning in February 1943 he trained at San Antonio, Texas; Chickasha, Oklahoma; Coffeyville, Kansas; back to Texas; Bruning, Nebraska; and wrapping up at Pierre, South Dakota. In 1944 he was sent over to Europe as a P47 Thunderbolt pilot where he joined the 82nd Squadron of the 78th Fighter Group stationed in Duxford, England. During his time in war he escorted bombers on raids to Munster and Cologne, asset denial missions all over Europe, and wrapped up flying a P51 Mustang during the Battle of the Bulge and conducting bombings raids on Berlin from December 1944 to VE Day.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army Air Corps
Language
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eng
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2014-06-23
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
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application/pdf
video/mp4
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/eaf23c0e1583a7c63136d74894c2b4aa.m4v
f1682d33167f476d7d4563d2dca79d23
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/543bb6b2f61de5337923d010d40b6f94.pdf
cf3d8d73a0dbf9e45572e214c0885812
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
Vietnam War
Richard Millard Jr.
Length of Interview (01:32:20)
Background
Born in Cleveland, Ohio; Feb. 28, 1950
Moved from Maple Heights to Highland Heights, there for elementary school, then settled in
Parmo, Ohio
Father was a WWII Veteran, worked in Opti Co., very good father
Mother was a housewife, divorced when Millard was 13
Both parents eventually remarried and Richard eventually went to live with his father
Remembers playing on the railroad tracks behind his home
Grew up in a time where people left their doors unlocked, everyone knew each other and would
watch out for each other (00:03:00)
Would play baseball, go outside, never watched TV; remembers when TV went to color
and it was amazing, only a few channels in color
Parents didn’t have to worry about where their children were because they knew
everyone would watch out for them, strong sense of community
Did all regular summer activities
Didn’t really understand what was going on when his parents divorced, but they tried to explain
it the best they could; stayed in contact with both parents, very loving
Older sister, younger sister, younger brother; all very close
Would listen to records with his older sister when he was younger
Didn’t play anything seriously, just recreation (baseball, basketball, football, etc.)
Got involved in theatre during middle school, plays; didn’t get into it heavily
�Father had a large family, 7 brothers and 1 sister; all of his brothers were WWII Veterans, as
well; Father had to get signed consent from his parents to go into the War, age 16/17 (00:09:30)
Most served in Army or the Air Force
Graduated from Mid Park High School, when he was living with his father; 1970
June 18th enlisted in camp; was 20 at the time; had started late in school after being taken ill with
pneumonia as a child
Joined the Air Force, recruiting station was in Rio, Ohio
Could have gotten into the Army, but wanted to be in the Air Force; have to graduate
from high school to be in the Air Force
Got straight A’s the last two years of high school because he had a goal, wanted to be in
the Air Force
On first day of enlistment, his Father’s advice was to never volunteer for anything (00:13:55)
Volunteered for almost anything anyway
Was rough to transition from civilian to military life
Have to be extremely disciplined, neat, and prompt; very controlled, regimental
At the time didn’t enjoy it, but looks back on it and realizes he did
Made some good friendships
A wonderful experience, hard to explain it to someone who hasn’t been in the military
Didn’t matter what field one went into, at the time (00:15:55)
Had a friend who wanted to be a cook (“No one ever wanted to be a cook!”), was in
security at the time
Security and Cook were two things no one wanted to be in, often drafted people into
doing it
Millard wanted to be in Security Police
�Lackland Air Base, San Antonio, Texas (00:16:50)
Very small base [Lackland was very large, but was divided into separate camps, some of
which were smaller], at that time, small town
Stayed on base during training
Basic Training lasted about six weeks (June 18th-July 29th, 1970); Police Security Training six
more weeks (finished September 1970)
Before Security Police training, showed a demonstration of the dogs there; dog-handling
program, loved animals
Volunteered to get what he wanted; went into dog-handling school, 12 week program
Paired off with a dog best suited for the trainee (00:18:50)
The dogs were already familiar with the program, already trained
Had to familiarize themselves with the dog, and then begin basic training: basic
commands (hands and voice)
Had to read quite a bit about dog training, a lot of on-the-job training
Sentry dogs, attack dogs, etc.
Had to be careful around them, would sometimes attack the handler to test for dominance; used
the choke chain for discipline
Millard weighed about 130lbs. during this time, so hefting 80lbs. animal took a bit of
work
Shown first aid for the dog (00:23:05)
Worked with veterinarians
Didn’t stay with the dogs all the time, had kennels; one dog for 12 weeks
Advanced training included attacking people; instructor would be fully dressed in a attack suit
Patrol Dog Program just beginning to develop; friendlier, could allow people to pet them unlike
Sentry Dogs
Being taught both, but in Vietnam, only Sentry Dogs
�Went to one other program, heavy demand of dog-handlers in Vietnam (00:26:10)
Wanted to go to Vietnam because his father was a Veteran; sense of duty
AZR Training, combat preparedness and training; trained without the dog
Made as realistic as possible, wilderness training: how to set up perimeters, preparing for
attack, live firing, preparing for combat situations (all done near or on the base)
Four weeks of training; slept outside in the woods, no barracks (00:28:30)
AZR stands for Security Police Combat Preparedness Course
Seven months total of training at Lackland (00:29:35)
Given a small break before being sent to Vietnam, went home in January ’71 for about one
month
Wore his uniform home, looking sharp; time went by very fast
Flew to California, Travis Air Force Base; used civilian planes to transport soldiers to Vietnam
Stopped in Alaska first (near Fairbanks) experienced the cold there; landed in Tan Son
Nhut Air Base
Very warm during that time (March 5, 1971) (00:33:50)
Right outside of Saigon (Ho Chi Minh City currently), could see it from the base
Assigned ahead of time what bases they were going to be in; was asked which they would
like go to
Went to Cam Ranh Bay, on the coast
Stored a lot of bombs, ammunition, planes there; also a Navy base, Army, Marines, etc.
Sent to 43rd Security Police Squadron, dog-handlers lived in a separate section; ‘hooches’
(00:36:00)
After being assigned living areas, taken in a truck to ‘Canine Hill’ where the dogs were kenneled
Assigned a dog to work with, no choice; dogs stayed there for the whole time
Millard worked with a dog that was eight years old and had been there since it was
trained (probably since the beginning)
�
They were mean dogs, knew what was happening
Would work perimeters; canine-handlers would give the alert, used radio, if perimeter was
penetrated
Worked at night, dogs would give the alert signal
Would use R-16’s, light-weight automatic/semi-automatic weapon
Dog leash in one hand and weapon slung over the shoulder of the other
Sometimes would be false alarms, animals, sounds, etc.
Dogs stayed at the kennel, would groom, train, and play with them during the day (00:40:55)
Near the bay, could swim with the dogs to cool them down during particularly hot days;
bathed them to keep the ticks off
Two shifts: earlier and later, 6-12 hours
1st shift, first to be on the post, no one to relieve; dropped off in trucks
‘Kilo Post’ code used by dog-handlers; had about 20 posts
50 dogs all together and 20-25 per shift
Six days on and one day off, still doing training on days off
’71: a lot of bases being attacked during this time by the Viet Cong (00:44:35)
“Vietnamization Program” U.S. getting ready to leave, training VP’s
Knew that South Vietnam would collapse once U.S. troops pulled out; weren’t prepared
enough or organized
Out at the post by themselves, rarely spoke with others; had to patrol (00:45:45)
Millard was very attached to the dog he worked with, acted as a protector and buddy; very hard
to leave them after a year, a special bond
Friends from the military, stays in contact with them through organizations
Cam Ranh often had rocket attacks, made a lot of noise, but little damage, very inaccurate
(00:48:55)
�
Would be given warnings over the intercom of incoming attacks
Had a lot of “Sapper Attacks” by Viet Cong or the “others” who were fighting for the North
(00:51:10)
May 23, 1971 had a particularly large sapper attack; attacked the POL area where jet fuel was
stored, lubricants, etc.
Had three dog posts in that area, Millard was on the other side of the base
Had a friend who was in security and dog-handling training with him in that area along
with a few others
There was a firefight and explosions, called for help; sighting of about 8 Viet Cong
sappers who were trying to penetrate the camp
Were carrying satchels of explosions to place in the POL area, but they didn’t get in
Eventually backup arrived
The next day, found where the sappers had been camped
Had bounties on dog-handlers in Vietnam, would be in the front lines detecting and patrolling
Army would ask for volunteers to go out on patrols
Took their jobs seriously because people’s lives depended on them and the dogs
especially
Dogs did tracking, tunneling, etc.; trained to do just about anything to save people’s lives
(00:57:25)
Another attack in the bomb storage area, August 25, 1971; “sappers” (00:58:15)
Bombs stored: 200, 500, 1000, 10,000 lbs. bombs; very large area
Security and canine posts there, could patrol right next to the bombs, close enough to
touch
Satchel charges were thrown in and a lot of it went up, the whole area; wasn’t too near it
It is unimaginable to those who weren’t there, incredibly bright and loud
Was on the bay at that time and his dog was going crazy
Had to keep patrolling, wasn’t easy; didn’t lose anyone, dogs were more alert
�Didn’t handle any Water Detection dogs, Navy used these dogs (01:03:50)
Spoke with some of the Navy handlers, were ‘brothers-in-arms”
A part of a national dog-handler organization, all branches; meet every two years in
different cities all over the country
Hoping to go to one next year, still keeps in contact with friends through email, phone,
etc.
The dogs were being left there, considered equipment; left in March ’72 (01:06:10)
Heard Cam Ranh was closed in August, four months after he left
Some dogs were shipped back to U.S., some to Thailand, Philippines, etc.
Given another leave after Vietnam; got out through Tan Son Nhut (01:08:25)
Back to the United States and went home for a month
Assigned to another base before leaving Vietnam; 4 years Active Duty in the Air Force
Wasn’t due to get out until ’74, had another two and a half years of service left
Given a “Dream Sheet”
Sent to some of the coldest bases; Maine, etc.
Many complained and eventually they were given a choice between England or Germany
Millard chose England, Upper Heyford Air Base as a dog-handler
Arrived April ’72 (left Vietnam in March ’72)
Had to go through English Military Dog Training; Denton, England (01:10:55)
Was a little different: terms, commands, etc.
Worked with patrol dogs
The difference between patrol dogs and sentry dogs, is that patrol dogs allow more
people near them if the handler lets them
“1st Louies” (in Vietnam) (01:12:30)
�More strict protocol in England; never did any State-side (01:13:45)
Travelled all over England; lived off-base, Burford, England
Lived with four other guys, rented a house, quaint town and houses
Would go to the pub down the street where they played darts
Drank what they called “Bitter Drink”
Enjoyed it immensely, very different from Vietnam
Very accepting civilian population
Got into dog racing, which was a popular sport in England
Groomed and trained his own greyhounds
Did it for fun, not money
Did some coursing, as well; chased hares in the fields
Five days on and three days off, more free days in England (01:18:00)
During Base Alert, had to work longer hours
Had some dogs and handlers in law enforcement, but mostly did night patrol
During the time when there were problems with the Irish
Nothing serious happened when he was there, less to worry about compared to Vietnam
Sometimes the Sergeant would come out with an attack suit to make sure everyone was
still alert
Wanted to stay in England after he was discharged (01:20:30)
Bought a car through the military (because he was military personnel), was a deal
Couldn’t keep the car
�Went to be discharged in the base in New Jersey (01:22:05)
There for a couple of days
Still had two years of Inactive Duty to serve
Didn’t get his discharge papers until ‘76
Went back home for about a month, had to get a passport (had a Military ID, could go anywhere)
Was a civilian
Went back to England, still had his greyhounds but not his military dog (Tasha)
Still raced them and visited many race tracks (Oxford, London, Wales, etc.)
Stayed in England for 13 months, then went back home (01:24:20)
Had to sell his dogs
Wanted to get into dog racing in the U.S., but it is too much of a business
Travelled a bit, was a wanderer
Worked odd jobs, wasn’t hard to find work, worked in some resorts in Florida; there for a year
Went to college after coming back (’77); a community college outside of Cleveland, ’77-‘79
Stopped short of getting his Associate’s in Small Business Management and Marketing
Didn’t take the general credits, but did all of his major classes
Was working and attending school at the same time
After graduating in ’79 left Ohio, transferred to a school in Florida; met his wife there (late
1980’s)
Married in January of ’82, daughter born in ‘82
Did divorce, but still get along well together
Eventually moved to Grand Rapids to stay close to his daughter
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MillardRJr
Title
A name given to the resource
Millard, Richard Jr. (Interview outline and video), 2006
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Millard, Richard Jr.
Description
An account of the resource
Richard Millard Jr. was strongly influenced by his father at an early age to join the service. After graduating high school, he enlisted into the Air Force where he became a part of the Security Police, and, eventually, a dog-handler. He was stationed at Cam Ranh Bay in 1971-72, and then sent to England for a year.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer)
Collins, Carol (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Language
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eng
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2006-12-04
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
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application/pdf
video/mp4
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/db975ae3178c4d262e3c717a3afd947b.mp4
3a2dfd3ee2f6fdc3632b1274afc80e9d
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9397a234160bffdd30c6b74015b4f42a.pdf
9196801e469afa84cc4f756eb6795167
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Duane Neff
(00:51:00)
Introduction:
Mr. Neff was born in Odessa, Michigan. His father worked as a milkman, then Consumers
Energy, and after he was laid off there he laid down blacktop. Duane graduated from high
school in Carson City, MI, in 1942. He was drafted the next February.
Military training
Duane's military training began in Fort Custer, and he was then transferred to Atlantic City. He
recounts his first lengthy train ride on an electric train. After Atlantic City he was transferred to
Greensboro.
After being drafted, he was initially put in the Navy. Duane was irritated at this because his
father had been in the Air Corps during WWI and he wanted to follow in his father's footsteps.
Eventually, he managed to get the matter sorted out. (3:45)
The next transfer was to Drew Field, where he learned radio training and ground observer
training. He explains that ground observer training is the practice by which military personnel
learn to quickly identify what type of aircraft is flying overheard. Generally, "quickly" is ten
seconds or less. (4:42)
Also while in Drew Field he was trained in Morse Code. Despite his training, he says he never
learned Morse Code effectively. (5:00)
Next he was transferred to Tampa for a period of 3-6 months. (5:30)
While in Tampa, he spent most of his time at the local beaches looking for girls. (5:42)
Dancing was another common entertainment during his stay at Tampa. While dancing one night,
he hurt his leg. (6:20)
While in Tampa, he and others were formed into a formal military unit near a race track. (6:49)
He notes that the men in his unit came from all over America, and that he is still friends with
some of them. (7:14)
Next he was transferred to Mississippi, for amphibious training. (7:34)
Mr. Neff notes the various types of planes present at the base (7:56)
Later on, he is transferred to Fresno, CA for desert training. He notes that this is the same
location where the Japanese interment camps were located. (8:24)
�He expresses his disagreement with the Japanese interments. (9:09)
His next transfer was to Pittsburgh, CA. (9:20)
During February of 1944 he is shipped out to active duty. (9:41)
Deployment
He notes he was excited and interested to begin active duty. He also notes they were served
sauerkraut and wheaties, and that everyone but himself got horribly seasick. (9:52)
Duane's ship left San Francisco without an escort, and went South and East, along New Zealand,
and Australia. He was unloaded at Finschaefen, New Guinea.
Duty in the Phillipines
Preparation begins for the invasion of the Phillipines. (11:26)
During his time in the Phillipines, he comes across Filipinos. He explains that relations between
U.S. military officers and the natives were generally cordial, and that they often traded with
them. Gum and cigarettes were generally traded for jewelry. (11:26)
He notes that the natives lived in the jungles. (12:38)
Duane notes that disease, especially malaria, was problematic for his unit. He notes briefly that
he has had malaria. (12:51)
Recounts experiences of "jungle rot" prevalent in his unit. He blames the "jungle rot" on their
insisting on wearing wet shoes. (13:00)
Duane praises the two doctors in his unit for combating disease. (13:15)
Recounts one of the doctors being shot. (13:35)
Duane notes that the Japanese bombing was not a major problem for him in the Phillipines.
(14:82)
Duane briefly discusses the buildup of a major naval battle (15:38)
Notes that the part of the problem for the US forces was that his ship had run aground. (16:00)
The LST was full of gasoline, although he didn't know it at the time (17:00)
Smoke screens, aerial bombing are problematic. Nothing came close to him personally. (17:12)
He notes that the cook operated the machine gun. He explains that the cook was proficient with
the weapon, although he did damage some of their own structure. (17:49)
Explains there were no casualties during the unloading. (18:27)
�He discusses the seven casualties of his unit, and explains there bodies were never found. (18:46)
He notes that the Catholic chaplain at the permanent base was shot. (19:00)
Japanese paratroopers begin assault on the base. (19:50)
Japanese come with half a dozen transports (20:16)
Paratroopers are stopped with a Thompson machine gun. (21:10)
Paratrooper attack is not accompanied by other types of attack (21:36)
Starving Japanese soldiers come to American base for food. The Americans feed them, and then
lock them up. (21:45)
Other types of interaction between American and Japanese troops. (22:00)
Japanese air raids (23:42)
Attacks are usually at night (24:10)
Discusses fighter pilots and commander. (24:38)
Filipinos were generally friendly to Americans, in part because the Japanese treated them
cruelly. Service economy emerges between Filipinos and Americans. (25:00)
Movies were shown outside at the base with a film projector. Shows came to the base as well,
such as Jerry Colona, Bob Hope, and the Oklahoma stage show. Dances were not prevalent as
earlier however. (25:54)
Despite the moist, hot climate, the movie equipment did not seem to have problems. (27:44)
Renault Stadium in Manila is a bombed out area (28:32)
Goes to Clark field, where he sees an impressive amount of airplanes. (29:56)
Flies frequently, noting islands (30:36)
Supply planes need help (31:12)
Supply plane has problems getting in the air. (32:20)
Notices a problem with the tire, which turns out to only be a sticker for the recently replaced tire.
(33:00)
Colonel saves Duane from going to prison. Truckloads of mail from New Guinea had been
backed up, resulting in the mail bags becoming water damaged. Duane disposes of the ruined
�mail bags by burning them, thinking that he was saving someone else the trouble of their
disposal. The post-master charges him with destroying government property, but the Col. agrees
with Duane and he is not sent to prison. (34:35-36:00)
Duane has more problems with the mail when another officer fraudulently signs Duane's name
for a delivered watch. The mail inspector has Duane sign his name dozens of times, and
concludes that the earlier signature was a forgery. (36:29-37:46)
Plays cribbage with some of his friends, one of whom he taught to play the game. He notes that
he was playing cribbage when the war ended. (38:25)
After the War
Discusses point system for discharges. (38:36)
Duane was due out on December of 1945, at which point he came down with malaria. (38:46)
He leaves the Phillipines on the Sacagewea. (39:00)
Notes that 37 of the people on the Sacagewea were white, and the rest were black. (39:56)
1200 miles off the coast of Hawaii, the ship is set aflame by a grease fire. The grease fire was
caused by frying donuts in turbulent seas. Despite the fire, Duane continues playing the movie.
No one comes to notify the people watching movies, but they figure it out when smoke comes
into the room. Everyone lays down on the floor to avoid the smoke. A large black man comes in
and helps people out of the room. The fire is put out afterwards. (40:19-42:18)
The Sacagawea was supposed to dock in Seattle, but the officials order them to stop at Hawaii
due to damage from the fire. He also notes they are low on food. The repairs are made midtransit, and they are then told to land in San Francisco instead. Once in San Francisco he is put
on a cruise ship and sent to Angel Island, where they have a meal of T-bone steaks and milk.
(42:36-44:09)
Discharged at Fort Sheldon. (45:42)
Returns to Michigan. He files for unemployment, but never collects as he is soon hired by
Consumers Energy. He works for Consumers Energy for forty years and then retires. (45:4346:45)
Expresses gratitude for his time in the military. Explains he didn't find it pleasant at the time, but
is glad he went. If he had to do it again, he'd be a cook (47:00-47:44)
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Veterans History Project
Creator
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Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
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1914-
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
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Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
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Identifier
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NeffD
Title
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Neff, Duane (Interview outline and video), 2007
Creator
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Neff, Duane L.
Description
An account of the resource
Duane Neff served in the US Army Air Corps between 1943 and 1946. He served with an air warning unit that worked mostly with fighter squadrons in the Philippines. He discusses encounters with the Japanese and with Filipinos, and incidents that took place on base before and after the war's end. When heading home, the ship he was on caught fire and had to make an emergency stop in Hawaii.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Army. Air Corps
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2007-12-06
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7389406afcf4e25836ef6915219f9e05.mp4
5f72f72967542677fe65a5114cbd7376
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cf332048ae99aebb90e21a2a1f685271.pdf
5f5e384c54ac6662f61ef3a160b5a094
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview Notes
Length:1:01
Wendell Miles
WWII Veteran
Provost Marshal and Judge Advocate General; 1943 to –(?)
1:12 Born in Holland Michigan
1:45 Born in 1916
2:09 Discussing being the smallest member of his family and how he played the drum
3:12 He went to Hope College, During college he was a sailor. He was a member of the
Debate team
5:18 He went to Wyoming to get his masters degree and write laws for the legislature.
6:06 He then went to the University of Michigan law school
6:56 In 1941he was listening to the symphony when he heard the Pearl Harbor was
bombed.
8:00 He did not know if he was going to be able to finish at Michigan
8:36 He never knew if he was going to be drafted.
8:57 He took the Bar Exam and passed
9:43 on October 2 1943 he signed up
10:14 He tried to join the navy as an officer he was denied because of his height
10:55 He went into the Army as a Private
11:38 He got injured in basic he broke his ankle; he spent a month in the hospital.
12:31 He ended up in Fort Riley Kansas he became a member of the Provost Marshal
corps
14:14 He describes how he got in trouble at Kansas he through a fire cracker down the
hall where the officers were eating.
15:55 He told the officers that he was the one who did it
�16:26 He was put on permanent KP duty.
18:10 He was told to apply to OCS
18:53 He describes OCS and the application process
20:26 He was accepted to OCS he shows the picture of his Class at OCS
21:30 He says that OCS is the worst place in the Army the men picked on him because he
was a Lawyer
23:01 He talks about how he got along in OCS he played craps and poker.
23:59 He discusses how he had to appear before a General at the end of his term of OCS.
The General fires off a few hard questions
26:16 He answered the questions correctly.
28:18 He is still discussing OCS, He says that his friend was kicked out of OCS.
30:43 He discusses tensions between the officer candidates, who were college graduates,
and the noncoms who were training them, career men without even high school degrees
who treated them badly.
32:53 He went to Texas at a POW camp he lectured men of why we fight. He says that he
was not found of Roosevelt.
33:03 He talked to the German POWs he said that most of them were not really Germans.
35:01 He says that most of the Germans were smart and that they put on plays and had
Kangaroo Courts.
37:07 He tried to explain what Democracy was.
37:42 Every other night there would be a German would be convicted at these Kangaroo
courts.
38:50 He went to some of theses plays and translated for the Cornell in charge.
39:21 He tried to talk to these Germans to convert them to democratic values.
40:18 He transferred men to different camps, hoping to separate the hard core Nazis from
the others.
41:32 After Camp Hood he went to Oregon
43:13 He was a Lawyer for about six months in Oregon at Camp White
�44:51 He went east to New Jersey he spent four hours there and then went on a boat to
Europe. He spent three or four days in the ship until the convoy was sent out. Everyone
on the ship was sick. He was in a convoy of eighty ships
46:03 He was sitting outside of Scotland the nets were holding the ships back because of
the submarines
48:00 He got there in 1944
48:43 He describes his captain he says that he was the dumbest person he knew
49:45 His captain got drunk and told him what he thought of him.
50:09 He describes White night and Black night, He says that the English People are not
that brilliant
51:03 He describes the racial disparity and the whites and blacks fighting.
51:44 He said that he was very busy there.
52:12 He took a ship full of POWs back to the U.S and he got three days off.
53:11 He says that he went to a prison in Illinois to recruit prisoners for the army and said
to the prisoners that he had more respect for the German POWs than he did for the
prisoners because they fought for there country.
55:27 He discusses how the prisoners got ready to go to Europe.
57:53 He discusses the treatment of these prisoners
58:19 He got his on a rack of six (?) on the Queen Elizabeth he said it was quit a chore.
59:42 He thought that it was a good and a bad idea that they had prisoners to fight.
1:01 He was making constant trips to go to the front.
Lost the end.
�·The HollaI!!tD~!~y!!,ing Sentinel
Zeelaftd, s.ug.tuck~ DouglU,
FORTY-SEVENTH YEAR-NO. 89
w..t
Ollv.. HUdto,,"llIe. Fennville, Hamilton, E.at Saugatuck, Morrtello P~rk. Central Park, Vlrah,'. P.rk, Jenl,on Park, Macatawa Puk. North Shore Drive. and District No.2
HOLLAND, MICHIGAN, SATURDAY. OCTOBER 17,1942
EIGHT PAGES-PRICE THREE CENTS
SOVIETS AGAIN YIELD AT STALINGRAD
Another Group of Holland Selectees Report for Duty at Fort Cu~t~r
Admit Defenses '"
I May· Be Split by
Ii Gennan Wedge
I
I
Dakar ClasL Denied;
Bag of Axis Planes at
Malta Over 100 Mark
By Unlkd Prtss
The Soviet defense of StaUn
J1'I.d appetl'(.'d to. have taken a
tum tOf' the worse today with
mcee Nazi
gains apinst· the
reeteess-mee factories which have
been the bulwark of the Red
anny stand.
Mogcow reported that tor the
fourth time in two days Soviet
fQrees have Iallen back under
thl!o Intense preswre of German
tanks and ground t.rooJM: directed
a&aibst a narrow front where the
.Nui .ObjeCtiv.e is the banks of
~ Volga river.
The Russians said tJ!t')' had re
tired only a .hort 6tance and
in good crder and that the cee,
mana bad not reached the, river
German claims, however, said the
VO]l:a was reached on a broaden~
ing front. The RussIaM admit
I ted there. was. acute "dang", tne
th e Nazl W«Ige would dIvide the
StalinCl'1ld defense arm)".
The Germans were said to be
.: [ IUUerlna- heavy losses. One- Rus
,
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f
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~; ~:; =~I1~id
l;'ogg 1~~)4::
lone part. or the front and 151
tanks destroyed,
Berlin clalmed that Nul troops
had entered. tbe . "R~ barricade"
h:tory which WlU described as
one of two remaining Soviet
strong points in SblJngrad. Tile
other was the "Red October"
WOI"b which was said to 00 sur
rounde9. RUSli;an troops north
west of Stalingrad were said to
have been isolated.
Despite the StaUngrad develop
ments, President Mihail Kalin]n
in a review of the war Mid the
sltuatlon generally wes more rev
. ~~blEl for _ R_US.sia than' ~." )lear
The above group of selectees
left -Holland Friday noon .to , report for duty in the army at
Fort Custer. They are· (left to
right). First row, Carl Jay' .Mar-
'eus, Wendell Alverson Miles,
Marvin J. Overway, Melvin James
Van. buren, Delwin Harris Andersen, .Herman Harold· Banger
and Benjamin Wagner; second
row, Wallace William Grant'l Theunis Hoort, and William Ger
John Buursma, Jr., Bernard Jac- rit De Graaf; third row,. Gordon
ob Vail De Lune, Harold Marvin Van Voorst, Walter Scott I B. Ver Hulst, Allen Taylor and
Burke, George Bernard Wilner, I Robert Woldring,
.
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Honorable Wendell A. Miles:
Soldier, Prosecutor, Professor,
Court Historian, and Judge Extraordinaire
.lIhi5 i5sue'isdedicated to Federal District Judge
Wendell Alverson Miles, who celebrated his 90th
birthday April 17,2006, and is still going strong. Judge
Miles was instrumental in establishing the Historical
Society for the United States District Court for the
Western District of Michigan only a few years ago and,
at meetings of the Society's board of trustees, graces us
with reminiscences of litigation. gone by and character
sketches of judges, lawyers, and witnesses, By dedicating
this issue of the Journal to Judge Miles, we express our
sincere thanks and deep gratitude for all that he has
bestowed on the bench, the bar, and the entire West
Michigan community.
Patrick E. Mears
�---....---..e-----.. . --
Stereoscope
I
I
History of the Sixth Circuit Court ofAppeals
Presented by Michael Barone, SeniorWriter/or U.S. News And World Report
at the Sixth CircuitJudicial Conference
Detroit, Michigan, May 19, 2006
Thank you. It's a great honor to be asked to speak to the
Sixth Circuit Judicial Conference. You know, I understand
that out on the West Coast, the Ninth Circuit also voted to
have a Circuit Conference. But the Supreme Court reversed
them nine to nothing. It's a special honor for one who was
once a law clerk in the Sixth Circuit, for the late Judge
Wade H. McCree, Jr. I'm very glad to see in the audience
a friend so many of us know and have long admired, Mrs.
Dores McCree. And I'm happy to be able to say that also
in the audience are the two people who have contributed
more to my life and whatever success I've had than anyone
else--my parents, Jerry and Alice Barone.
It's good to be back in Detroit and to reminisce about
my own days as a Sixth Circuit law clerk. I must say that I
felt very grand and exalted in those days. As one of two law
clerks, I had a huge office in the Federal Building on Fort
Street, something like 40 feet long and 30 feet wide, with
20-foot ceilings, bookshelves
with hundreds of volumes
u-,,'"",
of the Federal Reports, a huge desk with the high-tech
equipment of the day-an IBM Selectric typewriter-and
a conference table that seated 14. But I was taken aback a
little when Judge McCree told me that I had better enjoy it,
because I would never again have a larger office unless I was
.• appointed a federal judge. Well, I'm still waiting for that
appointment, but as usual, Judge McCree was right: every
office I've had since then has been smaller than the one
before. My office at U.S. News is about 10 feet by 8 feet,
and it has chairs that will seat two visitors in a pinch.
I have many memories of my two years at the Sixth
Circuit--of listening to oral argument of cases in the
beautiful courtroom in Cincinnati, delivered in all the
accents that you hear from Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, and
· Tennessee. I remember hearing moonshine prosecutions
· being defended, somewhat perfunctorily, by a young
· assistant U.S. attorney from Nashville named Fred
· Thompson, who went on to become a lead counsel on the
Watergate Committee and a U.S. senator-and then to
achieve real fame as an actor. I remember Judge McCree
· showing me that he was able to recite in Latin more of the
opening lines of the Aeneid than I could remember. and
then completely overtopping me by reciting in ancient
Greek lines from the Anabasis. I remember occasionally
going down the elevator in the Federal Building to
4
Congressman John Conyers's office and being greeted by his
receptionist, Rosa Parks.
Those were in many ways grim years in Detroit. In
1967, I had worked as an intern in the office of the mayor
of Detroit, Jerome Cavanagh, and was at his side during
the six-day riot in July 1967; at one point he asked me,
a first-year law student, whether he had authority to
order a curfew. In the years of my clerkship, there was
great controversy over the district court's decision in the
Detroit busing case, ordering busing of students from
the central city to the suburbs. While I was a clerk, there
were raging protests of the Vietnam war and the so-called
Moratorium. But in Judge McCree's chambers and in the
Sixth Circuit courtroom in Cincinnati, things were more
serene. Not because Judge McCree and his colleagueswere
unaware of the turbulence in the outer world, but because
they were dedicated to do justice, impartially, under law.
They disagreed on particular cases, but I never heard
Judge McCree utter a disparaging word about any of his
colleagues-and knew instinctively that he would never
tolerate any from his clerks,
Since my days as a law clerk, I have gone on to other
things. I did practice law-for four billable hours-and got
paid for two of them. Then I went into political writing,
with the first edition of my Almanac of American Politics,
and into political consulting and then journalism. From
law to political consulting to journalism--each profession
paying lessthan the one before, and each held in less
esteem. I guess my next profession is selling used cars.
This evening I'd like to talk to you about history-with
perhaps just a little politics thrown in. As I was pondering
what I'd talk to you about, I thought suddenly ofone of
my favorite history books, David Hackett Fischer's Albion
Seed. And it struck me that Albion Seedtells us a lot about
the Sixth Circuit-about the people who settled and now
live in these four states, the nation's second most populous
federal judicial circuit, and, I would argue, the one which in
many ways is the circuit most typical of America as a whole.
The central argument of Albion Seed is that the
American colonies were settled by four distinct groups
from four separate parts of the British Isles, who brought
with them distinctive folkways which have ever since
characterized those regions of America and the regions to
s
s
s
�---...---~-~--- .....--
Winter 2007
I
which the descendants of those settlers moved and have
characterized those later immigrants who came from other
parts of the world to each of those regions. Folkways, in
Fischer's book, include all manner of things-from speech
patterns to building styles, marriage and sex and child
rearing, religion and food and dress, ideas of rank and ideas
of order and ideas of freedom.
New England was settled by people from East Anglia,
the region of England northeast of London-Puritans.
Virginia and the Chesapeake colonies were settled by
people from the West Country of England, Cavaliers and
their indentured servants. The Delaware River Valley,
Pennsylvania and New Jersey and Delaware, were settled
by Englishmen from the North Midlands, many of
them Quakers. And the Appalachian borderlands, from
Pennsylvania south through the Carolinas, were settled
by North Britons, people from the North of England, the
Scottish borders and Northern Ireland-Presbyterians.
I can't do justice in any short time to the richness of
Fischer's characterization of the folkways that these people
brought from the different regions of the British Isles to the
different regions of America. But let me try to characterize
them briefly.
The New Englanders believed in moral improvement,
to be enforced on others; high literacy; and what Fischer
calls ordered liberty. Transferred across the sea, the Norfolk
whine of East Anglia becam€tlft!'New England twang that
we have heard in our own time even from New Englanders
who were the descendants of later immigrants like John
F. Kennedy and Michael Dukakis. The New Englanders
may have been slave traders in the colonies, but in time
their stern morality led them to lead America's antislavery
movement-and, another instance that would have
surprised their ancestors, the movement for Prohibition.
The Virginians were the descendants of West Country
Cavaliers, gentlemen who believed in honor and also in
rank, and their indentured servants who saw themselves, as
their ancestors had been in England, of a lower order.'The
Cavaliers would fight for their idea of hegemonic liberty, as
George Washington and Lighthorse Harry Lee did in the
American Revolution and as Robert E. Lee and Stonewall
Jackson did in the Civil War.
The North Midlands people who settled the Delaware
Valleybelieved in a stern morality, bur unlike the Ne~
Englanders, they did not believe in community morality but
in individual morality: you should do your best as you saw
it in your light but not try to impose your way on others
what Fischer calls reciprocalliberry.
The people who settled the Appalachian chain, mostly
in the last few years before the American Revolution, came
from the fighting borderlands of Britain and Ireland, where
I
armed brawls and clan feuds led to pitched battles in the
seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. They were fiercely
egalitarian, in many cases Presbyterians who believed that
men-and women-should all read and interpret the Bible
in their own way, and be ready to fight those who did wrong
by their family-what Fischer calls natural liberty.
Of course, none of these groups of settlers landed
immediately in the states that now make up the Sixth
Circuit. Bur in the first years of the Republic, and even in a
few years before the Revolution, they did-and left imprints
that are still visible today.
The first to come were the Virginians, over the
Cumberland Gap, into the green lands of Kentucky, in
the 1770s and 1780s; and remember that Kentucky was
admitted to the Union in 1792, just one year after that
other mountain republic, Vermont. The prototype is Henry
Clay, originally from Virginia, the gallant champion of
the West, a major leader in American politics from 1811,
when he was elected Speaker of the House, until his death
in 1852. You can still see the Cavalier culture, I think, in
the Bluegrassregion of Kentucky, with the manicured horse
farms around Lexington, and you can see its spirit in Derby
Day in Louisville every May.
Then came the mountain people, over the Appalachians,
into parts of Kentucky and especially Tennessee, which
was admitted to the Union in 1796. The prototype here is
Andrew Jackson, born poor and fighting the English before
he was a teenager. A self-made man, he was violently in love
with his wife-so violently that he killed men in duels for
saying bad things about her. The Jacksonian spirit still lives
on as a vital force in America; as the foreign policy scholar
Walter Russell Mead put it, ''I'm peaceable and tolerant, but
if you threaten my family, I'll kill you." And it lives on in
country music, with its headquarters in Andrew Jackson's
home town of Nashville.
Then came, more quietly, the North Midlanders from
the Delaware Valley. They moved into parts of Ohio, which
was admitted to the Union in 1803, and left their imprint
especiallyon Cincinnati, the biggest city in the interior of
the United States at the time of the Civil War and after. If
you look at the street map of downtown Cincinnati and
turn it sideways, you will see the street map of Center City
Philadelphia, with numbered streets running one way and
named streets with the same names-Race, Vine, Walnut,
Chestnut-running the other. German immigrants did
much to establish the character of Cincinnati, as they had
in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania some years before, and
they took on the character of the North Midlands folkways.
Perhaps we have them to thank not only for Philadelphia
scrapple but also four-way Cincinnati chili.
5
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I
And then there are the New Englanders. In the years
after the American Revolution, New England Yankees
rapidly moved west, through Upstate New York and into the
northeast corner ofOhio - the Western Reserve, originally
set out as part of Connecticut in 1784. The New England
diaspora rapidly moved west, settling northern Ohio and
southern Michigan, establishing congregational churches
and dozens of colleges, including Oberlin College. the first
American college to admit women and blacks, and Hillsdale
College, which a few years later followed its example. They
were the founders of the Republican party and the northeast
corner of Ohio, represented in the 1860s and 1870s by
future President James Garfield, which was the most
Republican congressional district in the country. Immigrants
from southern and eastern Europe moved into Cleveland and
Detroit, but these cities still kept some of their New England
folkways.
As David Hackett Fischer acknowledges, his four
categories of colonists were not the only people who settled
America. There were the New Yorkers, with a culture that
derives from its original Dutch settlers, and which has not
been much transplanted to the rest of the country; although
Hillary Rodham Clinton, who grew up in the Chicago
suburbs, has assured us that she has always been a New York
Yankees fan, and has now been elected a senator from New
York. Consider Americans of African descent, who bring a
heritage of special oppt~on and special richness to the rest
of us. It was across the Ohio River, between Bracken County,
Kentucky, and Brown County, Ohio, that Liza escaped to
freedom across the frozen ice floes in Uncle TOm Cabin
which was written by Harriet Beecher Stowe of Cincinnati.
In the far southwest corner of the Sixth Circuit, in Memphis,
Tennessee, there is the black community that gave birth to
blues music and rhythm and blues. and inspired a poor white
in the housing projects, Elvis Presley.
The boundaries of the 12 judicial circuits of the United
States Court of Appeals were established in the 19th century
and modified in the 20th-and may be modified in the
21st if some of the western states that want to get out from
under the heel of the 9th Circuit get their way. But as 1
look at all the circuits, I think that the Sixth Circuit, more
than any other. is made up of Americans who derive from
all the traditions that David Hackett Fischer describes in
Albion Seed. And 1 think one proof of that comes from
politics. Crunching numbers as I like to do--I can't think of
s
s
6
anything more fun than staying up and calculating political
percentages for different groups of states and districts-I
have noticed a pattern. The four states of the Sixth Circuit,
aggregated together, have voted almost exactly as the nation
as a whole for more than 40 years. The Sixth Circuit voted
for President Bush in 2000 and 2004, for President Clinton
in 1992 and 1996, for the first President Bush in 1988, for
President Reagan in 1980 and 1984, for President Carter (by
a very narrow margin-but so did the nation) in 1976, for
President Nixon in 1968 and 1972, for President Johnson in
1964. You have to go back to 1960 to find an election where
the Sixth Circuit voted the opposite way from the nation as
a whole, and mostly because Ohio went more for Richard
Nixon than anyone expected. As then, candidate Kennedy
said, in a rousing rally in Columbus, "I don't know where I
get more cheers and fewer votes."
.
If you look at the results of the 2004 presidential election
by circuit you see the same thing. The First, Second and
Third Circuits on the East Coast gave all their electoral votes
to John Kerry. So, obviously, did the D. C. Circuit. The
Ninth Circuit, where California casts more votes than the
rest of the states combined, voted for Kerry, and so did the
Seventh Circuit, where the Chicago area outvoted downstate.
and Indiana and Wisconsin were tied. The Fifth and Tenth
Circuits in the West voted heavily for George W. Bush; so, by
lesser margins, did the Fourth and Eleventh Circuits in the
South and the Eighth Circuit in the Great Plains west of the
Mississippi River. The four states of the Sixth Circuit voted
52 percent for George W. Bush and 47 percent for John
Kerry-just one percent more for Bush and less for Kerry
than the country as a whole, the closest circuit to the national
average. Indeed, going back to 1960, the Sixth Circuit has
never voted more than two percent away ftom the average of
the nation as a whole.
Is there a message here that is relevant to your work in
doing justice in the federal courts? Only this, I think, that
within your jurisdiction you have, more than the judges
of any other circuit, the whole of America proportionately
represented, presenting to you, I suspect, the whole range of
legal issues and challenges before judges in this country
even if you still get a disproportionate number of moonshine
cases. The Sixth Circuit is. more than any other, America in
full. It was a privilege to serve there, and it- is an honor to be
here tonight. Thank you.
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Wmte.r 2007 .
I
Curriculum Vitae of Michael Barone
Michael Barone is a senior
writer for u.s. News & World
Report. He grew up in Detroit
and Birmingham, Michigan. Mr.
Barone graduated from Harvard
College (1966) and Yale Law
School (1969) and was editor of
the Harvard Crimson and the Yale
Law Journal.
Mr. Barone served as law
clerk to Judge Wade H. McCree,
jr., of the United States Court
of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit
from 1969 to 1971. From 1974 to 1981, he was a vice
president of the polling firm of Peter D. Hart Research
Associates. From 1981 to 1988, he was a member of the
editorial page staff of the Washington Post. From 1989 to
1996, and again from 1998 to present, he has been a senior
writer with U.S. News & World Report. From 1996 to 1998,
he was a senior stalf editor at Reader's Digest.
Mr. Barone is the principalco-author of The Almanac
ofAmerican Politics, published by National Journal every two
years. The first edition appeared in 1971, and the 15th edition,
The AlmanacofAmerican Politics 2000, appeared in July 1999.
He is also the author of Our Country: The Shaping ofAmerica
from Roosevelt to Reagan (Free Press, 1990). His essays have
appeared in severalother books, including Our Harvard and
Beyond the Godfather. Over the years he has written for many
publications, including The Economist, The New }Ork TImes,
the DetroitNews, the DetroitFree Press, the Moek(y Standard,
the New Republic, NationalReview. the American Spectator,
American Enterprise. the Times Literary SupplemC1lt, the Daily
Telegraph ofLondon, and the Italian publication, Libra Aperto.
Mr. Barone is a regular panelist for the McLAughlin Group
and has appeared on many other television programs and
networks, including the Fox News Channel, MSNBC, CNBC,
CNN, Meet thePress, This Moek, TOday, Good Morning America,
Hardball, Crossfire, the British Broadcasting Company, ITN
of Britain, the Canadian Broadcasting Company, and the
Australian Broadcasting Company.
Mr. Barone lives in Washington, D.C. He has traveled to
all 50 states and all 435 congressional districts. He has also
traveled to 37 foreign countries and has reponed on the most
recent elections in Mexico, Italy, Russia, and Britain.
Western District Historical Society Mission
The Historical Society was created to research, collect and preserve the history of the lawyers, judges and cases
that have comprised the federal court community in Western Michigan and the Upper Peninsula, and to share this
information with the public in an effort to promote a better understanding of the region, the court and the rule oflaw.
7
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I
I
Interview with Judge Wendell A. Miles, Recipient of
FBA Service to the Profession Award
The followingis the record ofan interviewofFederal DistrictCourtJudge Wendell A. Milesconducted in
December 1998, by Patrick Mears and Michelle Le~que in Judge Miles' chambers. The following is nota verbatim
transcript ofthe interview, but-isa summary that hopefully captures its essence andflavor.
MEARS: Can you ten us something about your family
background?
hand carved, wooden desk in my office was at one time
my father's courtroom bench in Grand Haven.
JUDGE MILES: I was born on April 17, 1916, in Holland,
Michigan. My father, Fred T. Miles, was the son of
a farmer and Civil War veteran. My mother, Dena
D. Alverson Miles, was the daughter of a Methodist
preacher and Civil War veteran. My father was one of
seven children and left school when he was in the fifth
grade. Later, at age 17, he enrolled in Hope College
and was later awarded an honorary degree from that
institution. I was one of three children. My brother,
Frederick T. Miles, was the probate judge for Ottawa
County for 28 years, and my brother, Lloyd George
Miles was a school teacher in Grand Haven, Michigan.
My father was ,elected as circuit court judge for Ottawa
"'-County in 1928 and held that position until 1948. The
I grew up in Holland and received my bachelor of arts
degree from Hope College in 1938. The next year, I was
awarded a master's degree from the University ofWyo
ming in Laramie. From mere, I entered The University
of Michigan Law School, where I received my juris
doctorate in May 1942. My father swore me in as an
attorney after I passed the Michigan bar examination.
MEARS: I understarid that you were in the United States
Army during World War II.
JUDGE MILES: I was inducted into the army in October
1942 at Fort Custer, Michigan, and took my basic
training at Fort Riley; Kansas. I graduated as provost
marshal from officers' candidate school in April 1943
and. was assigned to Camp Hood in Texas.
My first assignment was to interview
German Afrika Korps prisoners being held
there. I was picked for this duty because I
had-taken two years of German at Hope
College. I was ultimately able to speak fluent
German because of the coaching I received
fro~ a German Wehrmacht sergeant who
had attended Columbia University before
the war. In interviewing these prisoners, I
wo~ld classify them according to a spectrum
of political attitudes so that they could
be segregated in prison according to their
political philosophy. We put all the ardent
Nazis in one camp, for example, so that they
would not intimidate and physically harm
other German POWs who held moderate
political views. I also caught these prisoners
about the American political system. They
were generally amazed that, during 1944,
in the midst of the war, we would hold a
presidential
election.
JudgeMiles in the European 17U'(ltI!r during IJiJrld lIftr If
.....
8
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In August of 1944, I landed at Normandy only two
months after D-Day in General Patton's Third Army.
My assignment there was to interview German POWs
immediately after their capture to obtain information
on gun emplacements, the location of German reserves,
and the like. It was important for us to obtain this
information quickly to save American lives. I performed
this duty in France, Belgium, and Germany as the Third
Army advanced into the Reich. I also made three trips
with German POWs across the Atlantic Ocean to the
United States.
When the European war ended, my company was
scheduled to be transferred to the Pacific front, but I
didn't want to go there. I had enough earned "points"
to permit me to be released from active duty. On my
release, I enrolled in a special course at the Sorbonne in
Paris and was then assigned in April 1945 to try black
marketeering cases as a JAG officer in Marseille. These
trials were held in Marseille because U.S. Army supplies
would be delivered there for distribution to the troops in
the Seventh Army. Many of the defendants being tried
were members of the army who would sell these supplies
to French civilians on the black market. During my stay
in Marseille, I would often fly to Rome for weekends on
U.S. bombers. I would either sit on the floor of the plane
or i~ the bomb rack, w.h!';.~we would be called "shark
meat" by the pilots. The greatest American whom I ever
met; Bob Hope, carne to Marseille along with Jerry
Colonna and Frances Langford to perform for the GIs.
They would put on four shows a day, seven days a week.
MEARS: Where were you stationed after these black market
trials ended?
JUDGE.MILES: I was then transferred to Srrasbourg,
France, as a U.S. claims and liaison officer. It was in
Strasbourg that I lost my first trial, which involved a
French wine producer who sued the U.S. Army for
damages caused when the army commandeered his
chateau and drank the wine stored there. I argued that
this was "combat damage" that was not compensable,
but the judge disagreed with me. He said in his bench
opinion that "American soldiers only drink water."
It was in Strasbourg that I met my wife, Mariette
Bru~kert, who was the daughter of a French banker. I
would accompany her to the opera and other events
there. She had a brother who was in the French
Underground during the war but who was captured and
killed by the Gestapo. Another brother was in the French
Navy and survived the naval battle of Mers-el-Kabir off
the Algerian coast. After the war, this brother lived in
Judge Miles in uniform tounng Europe afterIE ckJJ~
Tunisia but then moved back to France after Tunisian
independence was gained. He is now 85 yearsold and
visited us here last summer.
MEARS: When did you marry Mariette?
JUDGE MILES: We were married on June 8, 1946, in
a Catholic church in Strasbourg, even though I was
raised as a Methodist. After our wedding, we moved
to Heidelberg, Germany, where I was a law officerin
the Third Army's General Court. Life was very good
there. We lived in a requisitioned house and had a car,
chauffeur, and gardener. We would hunt wild boar,
rabbits, and moose in the nearby forests. Later, I was
transferred to Stuttgart. I remember holding a meeting
there with German civilians who were applying for
licenses to conduct business in Occupied Germany. At
the beginning of the meeting, I asked the people in the
room who had been a Nazi. At first, only one man stood
up and admitted that he had been a member of the Nazi
parry. I said to the room that we have to givehonest
men like him a job to rebuild Germany. After I said that,
others in the room admitted to being party members. At
that time, I was tempted to live in Europe, and my father
recognized this. He told me that he would resign from
the bench and join me in the practice of law if I returned
home. So I did, and arrived in Holland on Christmas
Eve 1947. My father resigned at the end of the year, and
we became law partners in Holland.
MEARS: Weren't you later elected as prosecuting attorney for
Ottawa County?
9
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I
I
During his campaign against Yonkman, Gerry Ford
made good use of this story.
MEARS: When were you appointed United States Attorney?
JUDGE MILES: I was appointed to this post in 1953 by
President Eisenhower and was re-appointed by him in
1957 after his re-election. This was the best job that I
ever had. When I started, I had only two assistants to
help me. Myoid office was in the building that now
houses the Grand Rapids Art Museum. In 1960, I was
nominated by the Michigan Republican Party to run
for attorney general. I had been urged to run for this
position earlier by the then-U.S. Attorney General
William Rogers, who was a good friend of Richard
Nixon. In fact, it was Bill Rodgers who wrote Nixon's
"Checkers Speech" that saved him from being let go as
Eisenhower's running mate during the 1952 election.
0" th«:lOth da,l' (1JI/(I' 1C)'H, I was in G1asb'vll'. S("otlaTld.
It hodjus: been (JIlT/DUlICrd that Hitler had beenassossi
noted and them IVa., gll'atic!,,' and celebration. I went into a
photo simp and became a Scotsman. Eteryone expectedthe
war to be terminated in 1() clays.
On election day in 1960, when I lost the race for
attorney general, I was approached by a trial lawyer
who asked me to join his law firm. I agreed, and this
firm ultimately became known as Miles, Mika, Meyers.
Beckett and jones. In private practice, I represented
plaintiffs and defendants in almost every category of
cases. In 1962, I was appointed special counsel for the
City of Grand Rapids. I acted as chief trial counsel for
the city in all urban renewal/condemnation cases that
resulted in the rebirth of the downtown business district.
In a number of these cases, my opponent was Harold
Sawyer, who was then a partner at Warner; Norcross &
judd. In April 1967, I argued before the United States
Supreme Court the "one man, one vote" caseof Sailors
u BoardofEducation ofthe CountyofKent, which is
reported at 387 U.S. 105,87 S.Ct. 1549 (1967). I also
argued and won an important appeal "in Lewis v Cityof
Grand Rapids, 356 F.2d 276 (6th Cir. 1966).
MEARS: When were you appointed to the federal bench?
JUDGE MILES: I was elected to this position in 1948,
and was re-elected twice afterwards. It was during this
time that I became good friends with Gerald Ford,
who was then practicing with Phil Buchen in Grand
Rapids. Phil introduced me to Gerry. In 1948, Ford
defeated Congressman Barney Yonkman and was elected
to Congress. When I was a GI in Northern France, a
delegation of U.S. congressmen, including Yonkman
and Claire Booth Luce, visited our company. Ms. Luce
discovered that I was from Yonkman's congressional
district and called him on a field phone to let him know
that I was there. Yonkman said that he was "too tired"
to visit me and later went to visit his daughter in Nice.
10
; JUDGE MILES: I was appointed a United States district
judge for the Western District of Michigan on April
17, 1974, exactly seven years after I argued the Sailors
case before the United States Supreme Court. I assumed
the bench on May 4, 1974. Before that, I had been the
circuit judge for Ottawa and Allegan counties since June
1970 when I was appointed to that position by then
Governor William Milliken. When I was appointed,
I had to work seven days a week for a long period of
time to dispose of 600 cases that were backlogged in
the system. In some of these cases, I would read trial
transcripts and then issue an opinion.
�Wmter2007
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MEARS: Can you tell us about your career as a federal district court judge?
JUDGE MILES: When I was appointed in 1974, I joined Judge Fox as the
second judge for this district. That year, I handled about 65 percent
of the 1,540 pending civil cases in this district. I was busier than I
had been as circuit court judge in Ottawa and Allegan counties. My
criminal case docket would be called at 8:30 a.m. and would last
until I :00 p.m. I would then hear my civil cases starting at 2:00 p.m.,
and that session would normally end at 6:00 p.m. This lasted until
1977, when three new federal district court judges were appointed
for this district. I have had so many wonderful times as a federal
judge. I have tried cases at Sault Ste. Marie, Mackinac Island, and
Marquette. I especially love Marquette, because I am an avid skier. I
also attended football and hockey games at Northern Michigan Uni
versity when I held court up there.
I am especially proud of being one of seven hand-picked judges on the
United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. I was appointed
to this position in 1989. This court hears only top-secret matters that I
cannot discuss with anyone other than the other six judges. We take no
papers into these hearings and render decisions right after the hearing
is held. It is a fascinating job.
MEARS: Do you have any special advice for practicing lawyers?
JUDGE MILES: Earn a reputation for being thorough and honest. Admit
possible weaknesses in your case but vigorously argue why your case
should be decided in your favor. Avoid being personal. Ifyou do that,
the judges aqAj~ies will like and respect you, and your fellow lawyers
will accept you as a mediator and arbitrator.
Judge Miles as United States Attorney
(19.53-196()).
II
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In This Issue
History of the Sixth Circuit Court ofAppeals
.4
Interview with Judge Wendell A. Miles, Recipient of
FBA Service to the Profession Award
I
8
I
NONPROFIT
U.S. POSTAGE PAID
LANSING, MI
PERMIT #191
STATE BAR OF MICHIGAN
MICHAEL FRANCK BUILDING
306 TOWNSEND STREET
LANSING, MI 48933-2012
www.michbar.org
James A Mitchell
Price Heneveld Cooper DeWitt & Litton
PO Box 2567
695 Kenmoor Ave SE
Grand Rapids M' 49546-2375
I, I" II ,I" I 1.1"',,1,1 I, ",1,1,. I 1,1, "I ,',1,1,1", I,'", ,II'
�Stereoscope
, -
- - -.....I- - - -..e..' - - - -....The following is a reprint ofJudge Miles' official biographical summary in the
official History of the Sixth Circuit, which may be found at: www.ca6.uscourts.
govllib_histiCourtsldistrict%20courtIMJlWDMlljudgeslwam-bio.html
WendellAlverson Miles{1916-)
United States District Court,
Westem District of Michigan
(1974- )
Nominated: March 29.1974
Con6nnecl: April 10. 1974
Appointed: April 17. 1974
Entered on puty: May 9. 1974
ChiefJudge: January I. 1980-April 17. 1986
Senior Status: May 6. 1986
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•
April 17, 1916, Holland, Michigan
•
Hope College, B.A., 1938
•
University ofWyoming, M.A., 1939
•
University of Michigan, J.D., 1942
•
United States Army, 1942-1947
•
Miles & Miles. Holland, Michigan. 1948-1953
•
Miles, Mika, Meyers & Beckett, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1961-1970
•
Circuit Judge, 20th Judicial Circuit of Michigan, 1970-1974
•
Judge, U. S. District Court, Western District of Michigan, 1974-1986
•
Chief judge, U. S. District Court, Western District of Michigan, 1980-1986
•
Senior Judge, U. S. District Court, Western District of Michigan, 1986-present
•
Judge, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, 1989-1996
•
Western District of Michigan Court Historian. 2000-present
:'::;:!"'; ;~:
�--------..e-----.. .--
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•
I
• Prosecuting Attorney, Ottawa County, Michigan, 1949-1953
• United States Attorney, Western District of Michigan, 1953-1960
•
•
•
Instructor, Hope College, 1948-1953
Instructor. American Institute of Banking, 1953-1960
Adjunct Professor, Hope College, 1979-present
• Special Counsel, Grand Rapids School Board. 1961-1970
Special Counsel. City of Grand Rapids, 1961-1970
• SpecialTrial Counsel. Michigan Consolidated. 1962-1970
•
General Counsel, Ferris State College. 1965-1970
•
Grand Rapids Bar Association Board of Directors, 1963
State Bar of Michigan
•
American Bar Association
• Fellow, American Bar Foundation
• Federal Bar Association
• Fellow, Federal Bar Foundation
•
Ottawa County Bar Association
• 20th Judictil~cuit Bar Association, 1948-1960; president, 1952
•
American Judicature Society
•
Grand Rapids Inns of Court, 1995-present
'.~~::;;.:';~~: ..~:f.;,~.~ ..;:,:'j! :v·:;;:-~:~~
Civ.iC&;Qthef .
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•
Holland Board of Education, 1951-1953; president, 196 I-1963
•
Penisular 9ub. 1948-present
Macatawa Bay Yacht Club, 1948-presenr
•
Holland Board of Governors, University of Michigan Club, 1955-present
•
Mason. 32;degree
Chairman. Statewide Republican Policy Constitution and Revision Commission, 1962
•
Vice Chairman, Michigan Higher Education Commission. 1974-1985
•
Grand Rapids Torch Club, 1953-presenr; president, 1974
•
Grand Rapids Rotary Club. 1974-present
• Honorary LL.D., Detroit College of Law, 1979
Honorary LL.D., Hope College, 1980
3
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MilesW
Title
A name given to the resource
Miles, Wendell A. (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2007
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Miles, Wendell A.
Description
An account of the resource
Wendell Miles was born in Holland, Michigan. He went to Hope College, then to the University of Wyoming to get his masters degree. From there he went to the University of Michigan for law school. He became a lawyer and joined the Army as a private. After getting in trouble for throwing a fire cracker in the officers mess, he went to school to become an Officer. After graduating OCS he went to Camp Hood, Texas where he looked after the German POWs. After leaving this duty station he traveled between Europe and the U.S transferring POWs and inmates who went to jail for not honoring the draft. After the war ended in Europe, he worked as a JAG (Judge Advocate General) dealing first with contraband stolen by US soldiers, and was stationed in Marseille and Strasbourg. Miles went on to become a Federal District Court Judge. Newspaper article, biographical notes, and a 2006 published interview is appended to the interview outline.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.)
BCTV
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Video recordings
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Army
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2007-05-20
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/30537ff352df6942e6a769ec0c56ae4a.mp4
642b247fd42a472d59d18e6cfac40652
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1ac9e103607a714f3060876ccafa3df1.pdf
21cc1c88630de3a39afb9098686b7e3c
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Gerald Naughton
(00:33:47)
(00:20) Background Information
•
•
•
•
Gerald was born in Chicago, IL on December 29, 1931
His mother left his father when he was five years old
They moved to Battle Creek, MI and lived with his grandparents
His mom began working in a bakery and remarried in 1942
(7:10) School
•
•
•
•
•
Gerald went to elementary school in Battle Creek
He went to high school in Barry County and played football
His stepfather was working for United Steel and Wire Company
Gerald graduated in 1950
He began working for Kellogg while taking classes Michigan State University
(12:15) The Navy Reserve 1955
•
•
•
•
Gerald had been working for Consumers Power Company where he came into contact
with Agent Orange
He was in the Navy Reserve also, but wanted to be in the service full time
He boarded a LST in Benton Harbor, MI
Gerald also traveled on APA ships
(19:30) The USS Wisconsin
•
Gerald worked on this ship in the laundry room
(20:30) School
•
Gerald was interested in farming and took agricultural classes
(22:50) The Navy
•
•
Gerald was in the navy for 17 years during the Korean War and Vietnam
He was making $350.00 a month and received a $450.00 bonus when he was discharged
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
NaughtonG
Title
A name given to the resource
Naughton, Gerald (Interview outline and video), 2008
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Naughton, Gerald
Description
An account of the resource
Gerald Naughton was born in Chicago, Illinois on December 29, 1931. He moved to Michigan when he was five years old and graduated from high school in 1950. Gerald joined the Navy reserve in 1955 and was later in the Navy full time. He was in the Navy for 17 years during the Korean War and Vietnam. Gerald now resides in the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer)
Collins, Carol (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Naval Reserve
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2008-09-11
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cdd5028190cb9c52f01dc11f3393d411.mp4
710ec301fb7dc33f3cfbff1dd7138758
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a519d87d27d1c4221c54b2257f2c97a9.pdf
5366cca4f3e88cddb305d26aca2f4043
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Louis Miles
(00:58:26)
(00:15) Background Information
•
•
•
•
•
Louis was born in Grand Rapids and had to walk to his Catholic school every day
His father was a carpenter and was still able to work through the depression
There were eleven kids in his family
He went to Union high school and graduated in 1938
He then worked for the Grand Rapids Bus Company as a mechanic
(4:45) Pearl Harbor
•
•
•
•
He had not paid attention to the news until Pearl Harbor had been struck
Roosevelt had been focusing on domestic economic policy
He was drafted shortly after Pearl Harbor was hit
They were shipped to Wisconsin and then to Camp Hood, Texas
(7:20) Training
•
•
•
•
They worked on maneuvers, shooting, with machine guns, routine training
They were only in Texas for basic training and he was then assigned to a cadre to train
others before they left for Europe
They worked with 30 caliber machine guns and sub-machine guns, which are not very
accurate
He was ranked sergeant while training and worked with two different companies
(13:40) The Trip Overseas
• They were sent to Camp Shanks, New York
• They all had to get spinal shots to prevent yellow fever
• Louis was part of company D of the 409th infantry, 103rd division
• During the trip they were wary of German submarines
• Louis was part of a heavy weapons company and they worked on the very top of the ship
(18:50) France
•
•
•
They were in Marseilles for a week
Four months later they moved north into Alsace to put up a road block
They were using bazookas to shoot German tanks
�•
•
•
The lieutenant commanding his unit disobeyed orders and put the squad in a house rather
than by the bridge they were guarding. The house came under tank fire, and they had to
surrender
Louis got shrapnel in his shoulder and shortly before his unit surrendered
They were put in a German prison camp
(27:40) The Rhine River
(29:30) Reunions
•
Louis goes to reunions every year and this year a reunion will be held at Fort Custer, in
Battle Creek, Michigan
(31:00) The Prison Camp
•
•
•
•
•
•
There were many guard dogs at the prison camp and they had to stay underground to
avoid them
There were Sikhs from India and Russians in the camp
The Germans treated the Russians the worst
The Indian army had been working with the British
The British had sent over bombing squads that dropped flares surrounding the camp in
order to mark it so that they could avoid hitting it when they bombed Nuremburg
They eventually left the camp and were made to walk south for a long time
(39:20) Christmas
•
A truck came to deliver bear to all the troops on the holiday
(42:20) Camp Work
•
•
The non-combatants had to do all the manual labor
The British army commandos were interrogated and tortured, and memorized as much as
they could so that they could about their torturers so that they could find them after the
war
(44:55) The End of the War
•
•
•
The Germans had reaching into Russia when the war came to an end
Louis had received orders that he would be headed home on a LST
He was treated well when he got back to the US; he received government aid and free
cigarettes
(50:30) The US
�•
•
•
•
Louis arrived back in New York and he was in charge of the mess hall at the fort
Each man was issued a new full combat outfit
They took a train to Grand Rapids, Michigan where he met his brother in law
He went to work for the bus company again for a few years and then went to work as a
truck mechanic
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MilesL
Title
A name given to the resource
Miles, Louis (Interview outline and video), 2007
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Miles, Louis
Description
An account of the resource
Louis Miles served in Europe as part of the 103rd Infantry Division in 1944. Prior to being sent to Europe, Louis had worked in training other men in the Army. While in Europe, Louis worked on damaged bridges and roads. Shortly after arriving at the front in Alsace, he was captured by Germans and then spent the rest of the war in a German prison camp with British, Russian, and Indian prisoners.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Army
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2007-12-04
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/57df04b7cd6c6ff5e83a0633de549f6c.mp4
ed7f095eb1b7472c28203356848e4567
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/402e92f9ea2b5a3e5f3111a880c9bd69.pdf
a4ef1bae8af539fceb860dc863d658a0
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
World War II
Rich Natte
Total Time (33:37)
Background
He was born on August 10, 1924 in Grand Rapids, Michigan (00:19)
His father died when he was ten years old (01:08)
At the age of sixteen he had to quit school to go to work to provide for the family
(01:18)
He had two sisters that lived at home
He was able to find a job at a furniture company (01:39)
He was able to get a job there because one of his sisters worked in the office
(01:57)
o His sister was already married
One of his older sisters was handicapped and could not work and the younger
sister was still in school
At the furniture company he worked in the machine room (02:55)
o It was the only job at the time that he was qualified for
There were not many available jobs because of the Depression
(03:31)
o He worked there for two years before being drafted
Enlistment/Basic Training – (03:43)
After he was drafted he was sent to Gulfport, Mississippi for basic training
(03:49)
He was in basic training for six weeks (04:55)
Basic training included getting the soldiers in shape
He was then sent to a carpentry school in Virginia (05:27)
o He was chosen because he had worked in the furniture factory
o He was told that he would be doing maintenance on bases (06:25)
o The school lasted for roughly six weeks (07:40)
o He was only asked one question before getting accepted into the school
(08:46)
He was classified as “semi-skilled” (08:52)
�Active Duty – (10:01)
After carpentry school, he was sent to Rhode Island for nearly a month before
getting shipped out (10:11)
o The soldiers did nothing in Rhode Island
They landed close to Norwich, England (10:44)
At one point on the voyage the soldiers were told that their ship was being
followed by a German submarine (10:57)
He was in Norwich, England roughly one month
While he was in Norwich he was just waiting to get deployed to a base (11:35)
He was then assigned to an airbase close to Norwich (12:08)
o When he arrived, he helped maintain the airbase (12:34)
o There was a building that they would work out of that included plumbers,
architects, etc.
o He was issued a bicycle to get around on the airbase
At night he would have free time that he could go into the city (13:24)
o He and some other soldiers would ride their bicycles into town
o They would often go to see a movie, get some food, drink some English
beer, and many other activities
At the airbases the trucks would often unload by backing up and slamming on
their brakes (14:26)
o There were multiple times where bombs would go off – they sometimes
killed some soldiers
One time a B-24 came in to have work done on it
o When the plane came in it slid and blew up (15:41)
o There were roughly nine men that were killed from the crash
He saw one of the American bombers approaching the air field being shot at by
German aircraft
o The American bomber crash landed in a local field (17:41)
He saw Buzz Bombs fly overhead at some points (18:01)
o Many of the Buzz Bombs were shot down by American planes
o The bombs flew so low that they were out of the range of the radar (18:46)
He served with the 491st Engineer Battalion
o He had temporarily served with the 492nd Engineer Battalion when the
airbase was temporarily shut down
They were sent there to help clean up and do maintenance work
(20:13)
He was only there for a few weeks
After the war was over in Europe, he went to France (20:50)
o He was in France for one month
o While he was there he did not do anything – he was just waiting to be
assigned (21:12)
o They believed they were going to be shipped to the Pacific
�
He received an honor from a battle that he was not in – his whole company
received the award even though only some were involved (22:31)
He was sent back to America via ship (23:31)
o They landed in New York and the first thing he saw was the Statue of
Liberty
When he landed in America, he received a 45 day leave (25:54)
o It was technically a furlough but they did not call it that
o He went home for the 45 days
o He was able to see his family and hang out with his friends (26:22)
He was discharged roughly two or three months after he had been back from leave
During his last few months the men tried to stay physically active
o They would play basketball, go into town, etc.
o It was much more relaxed once the soldiers came back to the United States
(27:48)
o He was waiting to earn enough points to be discharged
He was let go from Europe before others with more points because his job was
less important (28:37)
After the Service – (29:40)
Once he was discharged he was supposed to take a train home but instead rode
with a friend from Grand Rapids (29:57)
o When he got home he just walked in the front door
o His family was at the train station waiting for him
He then looked for work but was unable to find any (31:03)
o He ended up unemployed for some time
o He eventually found a job with a builder
o The builder did not have a car – he had to drive his boss around (32:11)
His military experience helped him learn a lot about taking care of himself
(33:03)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
NatteR0594V
Title
A name given to the resource
Natte, Richard (Interview outline and video), 2008
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Natte, Richard
Description
An account of the resource
Rich Natte was born in 1924 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He was forced to quit his schooling at the age of sixteen so that he could provide for his family. Rich found a job at a local furniture store until being drafted in 1943. He spent six weeks at basic training in Gulf Port, Mississippi and spent an additional six weeks at a carpentry school in Virginia. Rich was then sent from Rhode Island to Norwich, England where he served with the 491st Engineer Battalion doing airbase maintenance. After the war was over he spent one more month in France before being sent home and discharged.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Natte, Jeremiah (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2008-06-28
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/91fd653cabf68e6955cc8169304a7951.mp4
7fd889e51e86034c909a7197e4147b4f
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Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
World War II
Joseph Naperola
1:21:49
Introduction (00:48)
Joseph was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1923.
His father was a blacksmith, working with horses and similar work.
During World War I his father did not register to fight, he went before the judge and his
father told him that he couldn‟t fight his countrymen. They were of German descent.
There were three kids in the family. (02:29)
Joseph joined the National Guard prior to the war began. His brother was the first
sergeant and he wanted him to join, so Joe signed up at age fourteen. His brother covered
up the fact that he was underage. (04:04)
National Guard (04:10)
Joseph was given a rifle that was from World War I and was so rusted that it could not be
cleaned. As a punishment, Joe had to stay every night and clean all the rifles.
During an inspection by the General at their armory on Michigan Avenue, Joe pulled a
prank by placing a blank shell into one of the rifles that he was cleaning. When the shell
was found, the captain in charge of Joe knew it was him. (07:21)
After that, Joe was labeled a trouble maker.
While at Camp Grayling for summer training, they had a little Italian man that was called
the „chow hound‟ and after he was done eating he would go around and eat people‟s
desert. Joe was told not to eat his desert because they put CC pills (Army issued
laxatives) in it. The man was sent to the hospital, and they had to tell how many pills
were in it. Joe told them “Six pills in each desert”. (09:30)
„Bunking‟ was a practice done by the senior men to the junior. They come in the middle
of the night and flip their bunks. This was usually done after some drinking. Joe was
bunked once, and the second time he was ready and awake with his bayonet out. They
later came back and bunked him a second time, but they never came back after that.
(11:47)
A staff sergeant would wake him up at night to go on watch by shaking his stomach.
After the second time, he came up swinging and just missed his chin. He grabbed him by
the toes after that. (14:20)
His unit was mobilized in October 1940 and sent down to Louisiana to train. Joe was still
in high school then and had to stay and finish tenth grade. After his unit was federalized,
he became a civilian and was later drafted into the Army.
The Regular Army (15:38)
He was in the honor guard, and whenever all the VIP‟s came in like President Roosevelt
and the Russian leaders they had to greet them in full uniform.
�
He was also able to function as the staff driver for the officers and other visitors.
Joe was 19 when he was drafted in 1942 or early 1943.
Since he already went through basic training while in the National Guard, he was sent
right to an elite military police unit that was training in Fort Custer. (17:49)
Part of that training was to get up at five in the morning and run around the drill field.
They weren‟t supposed to do that before breakfast, but they did.
After he left Fort Custer, they were sent to Miami Beach, which Joe enjoyed very much.
While conducting training they were sitting under a coconut tree and one fell and hit a
man in the head and knocked him out. They did not conduct any more training under
coconut trees after that. (19:13)
They stayed at the Park Central Hotel when they were in Miami. Each room had about
six men, since he was the biggest guy there; he took the bunk by the window.
Joe was having MP training there.
Overseas (21:33)
Joe was sent overseas and it took 13 days by boat. It was a liberty ship and 3,000 men all
sailed on the same ship.
There was a constant line for food; it ran all the way around the ship.
To skip the line, he put on his MP uniform and was able to cut right through.
Joe was with the 1250th MP Company. (23:28)
During the crossing, Joe never got used to the rough water. They had swells that were so
high, they were told to stay away from the railings because if you fell off they wouldn‟t
stop and pick you up.
Because the shower facilities on ship used salt water, Joe and some other men found that
rainwater collected on the deck in bins and they bathed there in fresh water rather than
use the salt.
They sailed as part of a convoy, and they didn‟t see any U-boats, but he knew they were
out there. (25:22)
The first place they landed was in Scotland. That is where he got his first taste of the
English language.
After landing in Scotland, they took a train to their base that was thirty miles from
London. He was apart of a detachment that had to greet all the VIP‟s that landed there.
Because of that, he was given good treatment.
As a staff driver, he was a favorite because he drove 70 miles an hour when the speed
limit was 60. (27:33)
Driving to London once, he doubled over the steering wheel because of a pain in his side.
He later found out that it was his appendix and he had to have surgery. After three days,
you couldn‟t even tell that he had any problems at all. (29:29)
Joe was driving his motorcycle on a gravel road and lost control and drove down into a
deep ditch. He walked a quarter mile through the ditch to find a way out. He hurt his
knee in the accident and he was continuously told that it would heal. After that he
patrolled in a Jeep. (31:41)
On his patrols, he had four small towns that he was in charge of. He liked to patrol by
himself, because then he could stop in each tavern and talk and joke with the people. He
was looking for G.I.‟s that were out of line in the towns.
�
He once found a lieutenant and captain that were giving a bar owner trouble. He told the
two to cool it and they tried to argue with him. He threatened to take away their flight
pay, and the two quieted right down. (34:18)
Joe never had much trouble while on patrol.
When Joe was in a pub, two Polish soldiers were there talking. Then they spoke in polish
and Joe answered them. He learned Polish when he was three or four.
As a staff driver, he drove high ranking officers which had very nice cars to drive.
(36:30)
Royal Air Force Duty (38:19)
Joe got a duty assignment with the Royal Air Force (RAF) chasing prisoners.
While on patrol, he found some prisoners that they were looking for. He forgot to load
his .45 pistol and the prisoners knew it. He pulled the slide back and put a round in the
chamber by hand. He yelled at the men to come back, but they laughed at him. They
came back after he threatened to shot them. (42:02)
When he came back to base, he forgot his gun was loaded and he went to turn it back in
and accidentally fired two shots into the ceiling of the guard shack. Joe‟s CO had just
received a compliment from the commanding general about how nice the guard shack
was and that it did not have any holes in the roof. (44:47)
He was attached to the 9th Air Force. Each man in the unit was given a presidential unit
citation for meritorious service. Joe got three or four battle stars on account of their
bombing missions. (46:15)
Joe was coming back from London once driving a staff car going about 80 or 90 mph
when he blew the engine. The mechanic that came to help him was the prisoner that he
almost shot. It turned out that the engine had no oil in it. (48:50)
While serving on the honor guard, he saw President Roosevelt and others. The men that
did this duty were supposed to be the best, later a man came up to him and told him that
he had two different shoes on. (50:30)
When Joe was sitting eating supper, a plane came in for a landing. Joe said “It‟s
Charlie!” (Charlie was the name for the Germans). They ran out there and found out that
it was a new pilot and he thought he was in Belgium.
At the Emergency Landing Strips, they had lines of fuel oil along the field. They lighted
the two sides up when a plane was coming in and they called it FIDO (Fog Dispersal)
(53:00)
A B-24 came in for a landing once and went to the end of the field and crashed.
Everyone on board was dead. They hadn‟t been killed during the crash but were dead
while on board. Joe said it was a miracle the plane landed the way it did.
For rifle training, Joe used a Springfield and he qualified six times. The sergeant told
him he didn‟t qualify but he had six rounds in the bull‟s-eye. He qualified for rifle expert
that day. (57:42)
While in London, he stopped at a restaurant that served meat. It was one of the few
around that still did because it was so hard to find. Another soldier came up to him and
told him that this neighborhood used to have a lot of cats, but they were all gone. (59:15)
Bombs from the Germans would often hit London while he was there.
�
He was treated very well by the English people. He felt no resentment from them about
his money or privileges as an MP. (1:01:10)
Joe ran a private enterprise while there which involved a three penny piece, which was
smaller than a dime but it was solid silver. He had a Jewish friend that told him to drill
some holes in the coins to make bracelets. They made them up and sold them to a
jeweler and they made money hand over fist. (1:04:36)
Also for some fun, he would pick up .50 cal rounds when he had to go to crash sites.
They used to put these rounds in a stove and wait for them to go off. When they would
go off, they would yell “Air Raid!” and watch people just start running. (1:06:55)
When the Germans surrendered, Joe was in England. When he flew home, he went in a
B-17 that had no windows. He would go up to the nose of the plane because it was the
only warm place.
On his way home, they stopped in Africa, and they were warned not to touch the plane
when they were getting off because it was so hot out. (1:09:33)
He was asked by the pilot and co-pilot to come up to the cockpit. They wanted to take a
break so they told Joe to sit in there and steer the plane while they were gone.
Back to the States (1:10:58)
Joe made it back to the United States in 1946. Most of his time was spent in England.
With stops in Marseille, France and Africa.
They landed in Detroit, Michigan. And he eventually made it back to Grand Rapids.
He went back to his truck driving job, but they had replaced him. They made him a
mechanic instead. Joe was also married later. (1:13:32)
All his records were destroyed by Vietnam protesters, and when he put in for disability he
was unable to get help.
Joe‟s brother was injured on D-Day plus 59 and he got out as a Major.
He was quite the singer back then and when his brother was injured he made his wife a
record and the song was named „Josephine‟. After she died he found out that she was in
love with him. (1:16:25)
Looking back, when he first left Grand Rapids, he had seven or eight of his girlfriends
there to see him off.
Joe‟s girlfriend from England followed him home and they were married. (1:18:56)
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Veterans History Project
Creator
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Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
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1914-
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
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Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
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NaperolaJ1482V
Title
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Naperola, Joseph (Interview outline and video), 2013
Creator
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Naperola, Joseph
Description
An account of the resource
Joe was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1923. He joined the National Guard when he was fourteen years old and served until his unit was federalized in 1940. He was drafted into the Army in 1942 and was sent to be an MP at Fort Custer, Michigan. Joe was sent to England where he patrolled four small towns about thirty miles outside of London. While in country, he also was part of the honor guard and was a staff driver for officers. Joe was sent back to the United States in 1946 after the war had ended.
Contributor
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Smither, James (Interviewer)
Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.)
WKTV
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Army Air Corps
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Language
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eng
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2013-05-02
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
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application/pdf
video/mp4
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
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ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW
JOHN MIHALKO
Born: June 6, 1947
Resides: Lakeview, Colorado
Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project,
Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, December 10, 2012
Interviewer: Now John, start us off with some background on yourself, and to
begin with where and when were you born?
I was born on June 6, 1947 in a small patriotic town in New Jersey called Whippany.
Interviewer: Did you grow up there?
Yes, I was born and raised there.
Interviewer: How many kids were in your family?
Five
Interviewer: Where were you in the sequence?
I was the middle kid. My father died when I was very young and he was a WWII
veteran. He was only forty-five when he died and he left five kids, and he left my mother
a widow at age forty with five kids.
Interviewer: What did she do then, at that point?
She was a waitress in a diner most of the time, and you know that waitresses don‟t make
a lot of money, so as we grew up we got jobs and gave my mother money to keep the
house going.
Interviewer: Did she remarry?
No, she never remarried.
Interviewer: She looked after you.
1
�She buried three men, my father and two boyfriends, but she never remarried. 1:01
Interviewer: When did you finish high school?
Well, I was supposed to graduate in 1965, but I was having so much fun I stayed another
year. I graduated in 1966.
Interviewer: Once you finished high school what did you do?
I got into warehousing and that‟s been my career up until the present.
Interviewer: How long was it between the time you finished school and when you
got drafted?
Three years
Interviewer: Over the course of that time, were you expecting, maybe, to get
drafted or did you just not think about it?
I thought about it—my buddy wanted me to enlist in the navy with him, but I didn‟t want
to do four years because I had a good civilian job and I knew that I was going to go back
to the same company so, he said, “Well, you know you‟re going to get drafted into the
army”, and I said, “Well, that‟s the way it goes”. 2:00
Interviewer: When did you get your draft notice?
I had to report August the 18th 1969.
Interviewer: Now, at that point, how much did you know about what had been
going on over in Vietnam?
Oh, a lot—when the marines landed in 1965 in Da Nang, I wanted to quit high school and
join because I thought, “That war‟s going to be over in no time, and with the marines
there it‟s going to be over”, but my mother and oldest sister said, “You‟re not doing
anything until you graduate from high school. So, when I finally get out of high school I
2
�lucked into this job that‟s been my career for the rest of my life, so I knew what was
going on. 1966 came and went and we were still there, 1967 came and went and we were
still there, 1968—and then in 1969 I said, “Wow we‟ve been there four years and we‟re
still there, there‟s something wrong”, but then in 1969, that‟s when I got my notice.
Interviewer: What was your reaction when you finally got the draft notice? 3:02
I knew it was coming. I had to take my physical in May of 1969 and then within thirty
days I got this thing that gave me the dates of when to report. I was curious, to say the
least, but I went.
Interviewer: Now, you went and did the physical and the initial screenings and
things like that and getting medical tests. Were there people who were trying to find
ways to beat the system?
Oh yeah, but it didn‟t matter.
Interviewer: What kinds of things did they try?
They would say they were either alcoholics, drug addicts, or gay, but it didn‟t matter. If
you were overweight you were going in, if you were underweight you were going in. If
you walked in with a Seeing Eye Dog, you were going in. I was underweight and I
should have never been taken, but I was in.
Interviewer: In a different year they might have rejected you.
I only know about mine, so I don‟t know
Interviewer: Where did they send you then for basic training? 4:02
I got lucky and they sent me to Fort Dix, which is in New Jersey. I was supposed to go to
Fort Bragg, but when they were telling you where you were going I had to go to the
bathroom and when I came back a guy said, “Where are you going?” I said, “I don‟t
3
�know”, and he said, “Where were you sitting?” I pointed and there was somebody else
there, and he said, “Ok, you can go to Dix”. What they did was, they went down the line
and said, “You‟re going to Bragg, You‟re going to Dix, Bragg, Dix, Bragg Dix”, and they
did the same thing in North Carolina. They were sending the North Carolina guys to Fort
Dix and the New Jersey guys to Fort Bragg, I can‟t understand it.
Interviewer: When you got to Fort Dix, what did you learn about the guys you were
training along with? You had some from North Carolina, or whatever, but were
they mostly east coast people who were there?
I think so
Interviewer: What kind of a sort of ethnic mix was there? Were there black
soldiers?
Oh yeah, you name it, they were all there.
Interviewer: Did you notice anything in the terms of age range of these guys?
No, when you‟re in basic training you don‟t have time to think. You‟re up at the crack of
dawn; you go out on night maneuvers. 5:08
Interviewer: What did basic training consist of for you?
A little bit of everything, but in my opinion—the only thing that I really learned was the
M16, which I didn‟t get until my last week of basic training. I trained on the M14, and
they were using M16‟s in Vietnam, and it didn‟t make any sense.
Interviewer: How much emphasis was there on discipline and following orders?
Hardly any, we never had a barracks inspection. I thought it was going to be like—there
was a movie out, a story about the DI and I thought that was what the military was.
Interviewer: But not at Fort Dix?
4
�To me it was a joke. Growing up in Whippany, New Jersey, we played army all the time
when we were kids. We were always out in the woods. My house was surrounded by
woods, so living in the jungle and stuff like that, you know, not a big deal. 6:08 But, as
far as what they taught us, I didn‟t get much out of it, believe me.
Interviewer: Did you have any idea of what the background of the drill instructors
was? Had some of them been to Vietnam and back?
The drill instructors, I don‟t think they were, but a lot of the cadre was Vietnam vets.
Interviewer: How long then does basic training last?
It started in August and we graduated in October, it was roughly three months.
Interviewer: What do you do after that?
You‟re supposed to get a leave to go home and then report back and then they would
send you to your AIT, but they wouldn‟t let any of us off the base. As a matter of fact,
the day after graduation my sister was getting married and she wanted me to give her
away at her wedding and they wouldn‟t let me off the base.
Interviewer: Did they offer any explanation of that?
Nope, I think they were afraid of desertions, I don‟t know, so, I had to sit on Fort Dis for
three days doing nothing. 7:06 Then they put us on a bus and bused us to—I don‟t
know which airport we went to. No, they bused us to Philadelphia; we got on a civilian
jet and went to Fort Lewis, Washington.
Interviewer: Now, did you get an AIT?
Oh yeah,, that‟s where I took my jungle training, in the dead of winter in Fort Lewis,
Washington. It doesn‟t make sense.
Interviewer: No
5
�The terrain was definitely—we were in the mountains all the time and that‟s where I
ended up in Vietnam, but the weather was—I couldn‟t get my head into jungle training
with the snow, and it rains constantly in Fort Lewis. But, at least there I got an M16 from
day one, but it was basically the same type of training, but you did a little more of it and
that was a little better. 8:03
Interviewer: Was this just general infantry jungle training or was it specialized?
No, just general stuff, basically the same stuff you did in basic, you just did a little more
of it.
Interviewer: Was this physically demanding work?
No, I don‟t think so, working in warehousing, that‟s a physical job anyway.
Interviewer: So, you were in good enough physical shape, so that wasn’t a problem
for you. How long then does the AIT last?
Another three months
Interviewer: Now, do you go home at that point?
That I did, and then I got a two week leave. We started on October 18th and we graduated
on December the 18th.
Interviewer: So, you get to go home for Christmas.
I got to go home and I think they gave me ten days, but I took about twenty because we
already had orders for Vietnam, and I said to myself, “What are they going to do to me,
I‟m going to Vietnam?”
Interviewer: Did you have to report back to Fort Lewis?
Fort Lewis again 9:01
6
�Interviewer: And when you got back, was there any question about where you had
been?
I had to go to courts and boards and they didn‟t say anything or do anything, and in a
couple of days they issued us jungle fatigues, in Fort Lewis, and we were on a plane off
to Vietnam.
Interviewer: Did they fly you in a chartered commercial jet or in a military plane?
It was a commercial jet.
Interviewer: So, they had stewardesses on and that sort of thing?
Yeah, and the flight over is really bad. The stewardesses partly smile because they‟re
looking at guys who are going to war and they‟re thinking, “This guy might get killed”.
We‟re the same way; you could hear a pin drop on the airplane.
Interviewer: Did you stop anyplace on the way?
Hawaii—they let us off the plane at the Hawaii airport dressed in our jungle fatigues and
people are staring at you, civilians. We get back on the plane and we landed in Guam to
refuel, and that was scary. Guam was the hottest—that was hotter than Vietnam, I
couldn‟t believe it. It‟s an island in the middle of the Pacific and when they opened that
door there was just a blast of hot air, and I said, “Man, if Vietnam is going to be hotter
than this, this ain‟t going to be good”. 10:06
Interviewer: What was your reaction when you actually got off the plane in
Vietnam?
We landed in Cam Ranh Bay and the United States built that port and it‟s beautiful. That
had a larger PX than the PX‟s here in the states. You could buy a car there and when you
got home it would be at your house. I never saw a PX that big.
7
�Interviewer: Did you stay there any amount of time or did they ship you out?
One day, one day, it‟s all paperwork. I thought once we landed and got off the plane
they would hand you a rifle and a helmet and you were going out, but no, it‟s just endless
paperwork. Endless paperwork at Cam Ranh Bay, and they flew us to Phu Bai and then
it was more paperwork there and then we went to camp, I think we went to Camp Eagle
and from Camp Eagle to Camp Evans, and at Camp Evans, that‟s when I found out I was
going to be in the 3rd brigade and then the 2nd of the 506. 11:06
Interviewer: All right, and then which company did they put you in?
E Company, Echo Company, and here‟s another side to that, E Company in any infantry
Battalion is the mortar platoon. I said, “I don‟t know one end of a mortar from another.
I‟m going to be in a mortar platoon, I mean?” But, E company also has your
reconnaissance platoon, which I didn‟t know about, and LZ cutters, and snipers. When I
got to E Company, like I said, I thought I was going to be in the mortar platoon. This
young sergeant comes out and he says, “You guys are lucky”, and there was like twelve
new guys at the time, “You pick what you‟re going to be in “, so one guy raises his hand,
I wasn‟t going to raise my hand for anything, I‟d been in the army long enough. 12:05
He said, “You have your choice of recon or LZ cutter”, so one guy raises his hand and
said, “Well, what is an LZ cutter?” He said, “That‟s a good deal, you only go out to the
jungle one day and you repel out of a helicopter with a chain saw and a hundred pounds
of C4 strapped on your back and you blow the top off a mountain”. I‟m sitting there
thinking, “That doesn‟t sound good to me”, so another guy raises his hand and says,
“What‟s recon?” “That‟s even better”, he says, “You go out into the jungle for one week,
one week at a time, you have to wear a helmet, that‟s one of the status symbols or recon,
8
�you have to wear camouflage fatigues, we don‟t have any right now, and you carry
everything you own on your back and your job is to look for the bad guys”. So, now
everybody raised there hand and said, “We‟ll take recon”.
Interviewer: Of course, I don’t know, did it occur to them that the bad guys might
try to shoot them? 13:01
No, it occurred to us, but repelling out of a helicopter at two hundred feet with a chain
saw and a hundred pounds of C4, nobody there to protect you, that doesn‟t sound good to
me.
Interviewer: So, recon, at that point is a better deal?
Oh yeah
Interviewer: Having made that particular choice then, what do they do with you?
We had to wait, it was a couple days before—all the recon teams were out in the jungle,
so we did a little repelling and stuff like that. The recon platoon came in, I think, after
about two days. They were coming down to the company area and I never saw such
dirty, grubby guys in my like, but they were happy to see us and it was a good
experience. I met my first platoon leader, at teenager, he scared the hell out of me
because he was a lot younger than me, but he was a very good platoon leader.
Interviewer: How many men, do you think, were in that platoon that came in?
When I first got there we had five eight man teams. When I left we had two ten man
teams. 14:01
Interviewer: Did the group of guys you were with, did that fill them out to the five
eight man teams?
Yeah
9
�Interviewer: So you got forty, you actually got a full strength platoon when you
start.
Yes
Interviewer: Once they come in, do you spend a few days in base camp or do you—
while they get cleaned up?
We went out—see, stand down for recon is only one day, so they came in and then the
next day they‟re out again. So, I got to meet my platoon leader, he assigned me to Bravo
team, I got to meet my team leader, and then the next thing, „boom”, out you went.
Interviewer: Did they do anything to get you oriented or give you any advice before
you headed out, or did they just say, “Do what we do”?
Well, luckily, the guys in recon are very, very tight and the old guys they show you,
because they just dump all the C rations in front of you and I said, “How much do I
take?” He said, “You can take as much as you want. Just pick what you want and load it
up”, he said, “Remember you‟ve got to carry it all”. 15: 09 I had food stuffed in my
pockets, in my rucksack and I couldn‟t get up or move. I had to jettison some of it.
Interviewer: Do you have a sense of how much your total pack weighed by the time
you got up?
About ninety pounds
Interviewer: How much did you weigh at the time?
A hundred and thirty eight
Interviewer: About how hot was it?
I don‟t know the temperature, but it had to be in the nineties with a hundred percent
humidity, I don‟t know, but it was brutally hot. When you got out to the jungle and got
10
�on your feet and started walking, I don‟t think you went ten yards and you were already
dripping with sweat.
Interviewer: Your first patrol, you said you’re out for a week at a time, so were you
out for a full week then?
We were out two weeks, we got socked in. Actually most of my missions lasted two
weeks. They said a week, but when it started raining and you got socked in, you were out
there. 16:05 Our missions lasted, roughly, two weeks. The longest I was out in the
jungle was forty-four days. That‟s forty-four days without a shower, a shave, or a change
of clothes.
Interviewer: What do you remember about that first trip out in the jungle?
Not too much, it was a routine patrol. I don‟t know how many clicks we went. It was
hard keeping up with the other guys. They put me on rear security, the last guy and I
knew I had to keep turning around and looking to see if we were being followed. When I
would turn around and look again, I couldn‟t see anybody, so I had to hustle to catch up
to them. I didn‟t like rear security.
Interviewer: How long did you have to do that?
Only two missions and my second mission out was my first firefight.
Interviewer: So, on your first mission you’re going to, were you wondering where
everybody was, or were you just happy you weren’t being shot at?
Oh yeah, well, I don‟t know—you know, it‟s hard to remember. I remember some things
about the first mission. 17:02
Luckily, they had me set up with an old timer and he
and he was nice. He showed me how to do the claim, which we did in basic AIT anyway,
11
�but he showed me the sneaky way to do it and the right way to do it, so yeah, the old
timers were good.
Interviewer: When you’re out on one of these patrols, you’re out overnight multiple
times, but you’re moving every day?
Yes
Interviewer: Ok, What do you do when you’re just setup overnight, how does that
work?
We try to setup in like a circle, we have two-man positions, you would actually sleep
with your partner, one of us would use his poncho for the floor, which we slept on, and
the other for a roof, sort of like a tent. We‟d sleep under there, and they gave us for—it
got very cold at night in the jungle, people don‟t realize that, we froze at night. It got
cold and the wind was always blowing. 18:00 You go to bed soaking wet and you don‟t
dry off until you‟re asleep. But, they gave us, it was like a sweater, a light weight
sweater, and we would put that on, and we had a poncho liner and that was our blanket,
which was very warm, and that was it.
Interviewer: Do you setup before dark, or after dark?
Right around dusk—we didn‟t like to move around at night because you couldn‟t see
anything anyway, you couldn‟t see your hand in front of your face.
Interviewer: Now, when you’re camped overnight, what, you mentioned—
You had to pull guard duty every night.
Interviewer: You’re in two-man teams and you trade off who’s awake and who gets
to sleep?
12
�No, we pick who‟s going to take first watch, second watch, etc. If you got an eight man
team, then you only have to pull one watch. First watch and last watch were the best, if
you got last watch you got seven hours sleep, but nobody ever slept the full eight hours.
Either a rock would poke you in the side, or a piece—because you had to hack part of the
jungle to lie down in. 19:05 You were never comfortable.
Interviewer: Did you—how long did it take to kind of get used to sleeping in the
jungle, or learn what sounds to worry about and which ones not to?
No, there were no sounds. I never heard birds chirping, nothing. The jungle, the jungle,
it‟s very, very beautiful, but the animals and the birds, and things like that, when humans
move in, they move out. I cannot recall hearing any kind of—I did hear a tiger roar one
night, that scared the hell out of me, I didn‟t know they had tigers in Vietnam. We were
on the top of a mountain and he was somewhere down in the valley, but that thing echoed
and reverberated, that was very scary.
Interviewer: The first mission ends, now, did you encounter any enemy on that first
time out?
No
Interviewer: Were there any booby traps or things like that?
No 20:00
Interviewer: It was really quiet, then tell me about the second one then. How you
do get in a firefight?
The second mission we had our platoon leader with us, teenager, the young guy, and as
soon as we got off the LZ we started—there was a trail leading off the LZ and we were
going down into a valley, and again, I was on rear security and they saw sandal prints.
13
�The North Vietnamese didn‟t wear boots, they sore sandals made out of American tires.
You would see the print and you might be able to read Goodrich. I didn‟t get to see the
sandal prints, being the last guy, everybody‟s walking over them. But, the guy in front of
me turned around and he said, “We got footprints in the trail”. We found, also, there was
an American, and old pineapple grenade from WWII. It was like half buried in the trail,
and I don‟t know if it was booby trapped or anything, but the guy in front of me said,
“Watch out you don‟t step over the grenade”. So, when we got to the bottom we had to
cross this—there was a little river or stream. 21:02 We got to the other side and our
platoon leader was very excited and said, “I want to call up and set up for the ambush, but
I got to get an ok, you know”. See, recon, they did not want us to make contact because
we were such a small number and we carry no M60‟s, nothing like that. They just
wanted us to find the bad guys, just report it, and then get out, ok? But, our platoon
leader, he says, “This is good, men, were going to have--”, so he called up higher, I guess
he called battalion, but he convinced them to let us stay down there and setup an ambush.
We did, it took us about two days, but I wasn‟t on that ambush, but that other new guy,
he, on that day, he was out there, I think it was like February 11th, 1970, and he was just
sitting there looking around and one lone NVA soldier carrying a big bag of rice crossed
the stream and he shot him, he got him, so that made the Lieutenant very, very happy,
you know. 22:02 He had a big bag of rice and he was going to feed a whole bunch of
people. Anyway, what we did was, there was a sandbar in the middle of the stream and
we put his body on the sandbar and we put a live grenade under him with the pin pulled
in case—the North Vietnamese, they come back for their dead, just like we do, so we
figured, now we got bait so we‟re very happy, but nothing happened for three days. I
14
�would go out on the ambush, you know we kept changing the ambush teams and after
three days the bodies bloated up, you know and bugs are on it and it‟s smelling pretty
nasty. Valentine‟s Day, 1970, that‟s when it hit the fan. I was on that ambush that day
and I was staring at the body, and I‟m thinking about home, “It‟s Valentine‟s Day and all
my buddies back home are going out with their girlfriends and giving them candy, or
whatever. The guys that are married are thinking about their wives, and here I am staring
at a dead body, hoping more of his buddies come out, so we can kill them too”. 23:07
That‟s exactly what happened.
Interviewer: So, they walk right into the ambush?
They‟re very, very smart. One guy walked out on the other side of the stream, and he
saw his buddy immediately, and he went right back, and he was just out. And we waited
maybe ten or fifteen minutes and he poked his head out again. Then he came out and he
got into the water, and very, very slowly he started approaching his buddy. He got out
about a couple of feet and another guy came out, and then another guy, and another guy.
We had about five or six of them in the water, and we only had like three or four guys on
the ambush. We were already outnumbered, and all we got is M16‟s. There was like five
of them, and then finally one of the veterans, one of the old timers in our group, he
thought one of them saw us, so we just opened up and dropped them all. 24:03 It was
over in less than three seconds. That‟s one thing I remember from AIT, they said, “A
perfectly executed ambush should be over in under three seconds. If it takes longer,
you‟re probably going to lose”, and this was over in like three seconds, one thousand and
one, one thousand and two, one thousand and three, and they were all dead. The water
was red with blood, so then what we had to do was strip them. We had to get the bodies,
15
�get them out of the water and get them onto the land. We were supposed to take
everything they had, even their underwear, but we weren‟t going to do that. We left them
with some dignity, but they wanted all that stuff because they can get a lot of intelligence
from it, you know. Was the uniform new, was it old, the weapon, what kind of condition
it was in, we took everything, everything except their underwear. Then while that was
going on, all of a sudden, we didn‟t know it, there was a whole lot more of them behind
them and they started firing RPG‟s at us. 25:02 That‟s the first time I ever heard a RPG
and it scared the hell out of me, and it was taking off the tops of trees, which told me that
they were coming down the side of the mountain. They were still too far, too high up,
and they were just firing blindly. So they inserted, the battalion, inserted a line company
behind us and they came to our rescue.
Interviewer: Now did you pull back yourselves, or did you stay where you were?
No, I stayed on our—you know, the shoreline, we had the bodies and all that. We
dragged them, and we just started firing at them even though we couldn‟t see anything.
But, they weren‟t in any hurry to cross that stream, and we weren‟t in any hurry to have
them come across that stream. I don‟t know how many of them there were, but they were
firing a lot of RPG‟s, which tells me there were a lot of them. What the NVA use to do,
if they were moving in large numbers, they would send out a small patrol out in front to
lead the way, and if the small patrol ran into anything, they could tell by fire we were
giving, if there up against a large force or a small force. 26:03 There were only three of
us, three or four of us shooting, so they knew there were not a lot of Americans there, so
then they came up and opened up with everything they had.
16
�Interviewer: So, with a short ambush, maybe one of the advantages is that it’s
harder for them to tell what you have.
Like I said, they took their time getting into that water. I mean, we got every one of
them, they didn‟t have a chance.
Interviewer: All right, then you go back—did you go back to base camp at that
point?
The next day, we went back the next day, but we had to spend the night. But we had the
line out there, and they were around us for security and everything, and they were giving
it to those poor guys, saying, “What did you get us into now?” They were looking at all
the bodies, the water was just red, red, bright red, and they were going, “What did you get
us into now?” “We can‟t help it”.
Interviewer: After this patrol do you just go back to base camp for one day?
One day, and you‟re out again. 27:05
Interviewer: You mentioned before that you were rear security in the first two, and
after that what did you do?
The team leader asked me to walk point. I said, “Is this guy crazy, I‟m still new”, but
actually I wasn‟t, I was already in my first firefight. I was put up for a Bronze Star with a
V, I got my CIB, so I figured, “Well, I can do it if he has faith in me”, and I walked point
from then on, day in and day out for the rest of my tour. I became assistant team leader
and when he left I was the team leader, and I still walked point. Nobody else—nobody
wants to walk point, it‟s the most dangerous job there is.
Interviewer: So, why were you doing it then?
17
�I‟m a little guy, number one, you know, and I was born and raised in the woods. The
jungle didn‟t--I didn‟t like it, but nobody else wanted to do it and I figured I was the best
qualified for the job. 28:00
Interviewer: What kind of skills do you need to do that job well?
You have to have a good slack man, the guy that‟s walking right behind you, and I had
my slack man walk like that far behind me, and if I was looking straight ahead, I wanted
him looking from side to side. If I was looking down, I wanted him to be looking straight
ahead. You have to work in tandem.
Interviewer: Wasn’t the standard advice not to bunch up or not to have guys
together?
Oh yeah, I don‟t care, four eyes are better than two.
Interviewer: did you normally walk on the trails?
Oh yeah, we did, our job—you have to be quieter in the line companies. If you‟re
breaking brush going through the jungle, you can be heard sure—we walked the trails all
the time because you‟re not making any noise.
Interviewer: Now, how common was it for them to be booby trapped?
The NVA, I‟ll give them credit, they didn‟t booby trap a whole lot. They might booby
trap a LZ, especially a fresh LZ, because they knew that GI‟s were coming in, but as far
as punji pits and all that, they didn‟t do that. 29:05 As a matter of fact, the NVA looked
down on the VC. The NVA were very proud, they were professional soldiers, just like
the American GI‟s. The VC, they were just farmers carrying a rifle. They looked down
on the VC, and I learned that from my NVA scout. He would tell us, “Oh, he‟s VC,
number ten, NVA, he‟s good, he‟s good”.
18
�Interviewer: Now, was the NVA scout with your unit when you joined it, or did he
come in later?
Shortly afterwards
Interviewer: You got to know him fairly well over the course of time?
Yes, very well
Interviewer: What did you learn about him?
He was very well educated, the North Vietnamese, as a whole, are very well educated and
the south Vietnamese are not. The North Vietnamese are taught American history, he
knew a lot of our American Presidents, and he was an amazing young man. I don‟t know
how old he was, and he didn‟t really speak a lot of English. 30:04 I couldn‟t speak any
Vietnamese, but we could communicate. I learned a lot from that guy, I liked him and I
trusted him.
Interviewer: Did he tell you anything about his family, or how he wound up being
on your side?
He told me he came from a family—he had five brothers and he said they were all in the
NVA, and I don‟t know where he fit in that family, but he said his oldest brother was a
Colonel, and he said, “If the Americans leave, the North Vietnamese are going to come
and take over the country, and my own brother‟s going to kill me”.
Interviewer: Did he explain what he was doing being on your side?
No, I never asked him. I did ask him why he came over to our side, and he held up one
finger, number one, B52”s, and he said all the NVA were terrified of the B52‟s.
Rightfully so, because you can‟t see them, hear them, nothing, and all of a sudden the
19
�earth disintegrates. 31:04 They were terrified of B52‟s. Then he held up two fingers
and he said, “Number two, America never loses, told me”.
Interviewer: That’s what he learned in his history class?
I don‟t know if he learned it in his history class, but that‟s what he deduced from it. He
said, “America never loses”.
Interviewer: How effective, or useful, was he when you were on patrol.
Well, in the “Ripcord” book, my team discovered a North Vietnamese telephone line and
we tapped it, and he‟s the one that found the line. I‟m a good point man and I missed it,
and my slack man missed it, everybody missed it, and he‟s the one that found it, and he
turned white as a ghost. He was holding it up and he said, “Beaucoup NVA, beaucoup
NVA, boocoo NVA, di di mau”. He was terrified and he wanted out of there.
Interviewer: What does di di mau mean?
It means, get out, leave. 32:00 Recon, when were in the jungle we never talk, if we talk
at all we whisper, we never talk like we‟re talking now. Even if we think we‟re in a safe
area, we still do not talk, we whisper at all times. But, he was getting very loud, and then
when he saw me, because I heard all this noise behind me, I didn‟t know—I was starting
to go u the side of a mountain and I heard this racket. I turned around and he‟s holding
the wire and he‟s calling me, and he‟s saying, “John, John, beauoup NVA, di di mau”,
and he kept saying it. I had to put my hand over his mouth and now I‟m getting scared,
so he found the telephone line.
Interviewer: I’m going to go back a little bit. How many patrols did you go on
roughly?
20
�In my whole tour, I don‟t know. That mission in July, that was my thirteenth time to the
jungle, and after that---I did maybe twenty five or thirty, I don‟t know. 33:00
Interviewer: Does that kind of work take its toll on you physically or mentally?
Both, yeah—on the helicopter flight out nobody talks. You‟re deeply involved in
thinking, “Is this the time I‟m not coming back?” The flight back though, everybody‟s
happy. Everybody‟s smiling and happy. It takes its toll mentally and physically too. My
knees bother me all the time and that‟s from carrying all that weight. I‟ve got arthritis,
and that‟s from sleeping on the cold wet ground all the time. It takes its toll, but it
doesn‟t happen overnight. I remember on my second time out, the old timers, it took
them like ten minutes before they could straighten out , and I laughed at them, I was
teasing them, I said, “I‟m three years older than you”, and they said, “Wait six months,
you‟re going to be just like us”, and it‟s true. 34:01
Interviewer: On what proportion of your patrols did you actually make contact
with the enemy, so you think?
Oh gee, I don‟t know, we had more than our share of firefights, but to put a number on it,
I don‟t know.
Interviewer: Was it most of the time, or---over half?
No, I don‟t think it was half, maybe a third of the time, maybe a little more, I don‟t know.
Interviewer: What was the worst one you got into that you can recall?
The one where I got shot and actually the second worst one was when we had to go
through and retrieve American bodies. I had never seen a dead American. I saw a lot of
dead NVA, but I had never saw a dead American.
Interviewer: Was that before Ripcord?
21
�No, it was during the whole Ripcord episode, and it took place on Triple Hill. We had
three of our recon teams were basically within a click of each other, and one of our teams
detected North Vietnamese all around them and they got hit, and they had two wounded
guys. 35:05 They called in a medevac and the team leader—the medevac was on its
way out, but he told them, “Were still in contact, don‟t—wait for the Cobras to get there”.
I think the medevac people were the bravest people in the world. This guy wasn‟t going
to wait. He heard there were two wounded Americans and he came out. He didn‟t wait
for Cobra escorts and there was no place to land, so they lowered the jungle penetrators.
“You know what that is, correct?”
Interviewer: You should explain that for the benefit of the audience here.
Jungle penetrator, they can do it two ways. If the man was unconscious they would lower
down a basket, it‟s called the Stokes litter basket, and you put him in the basket and they
would pull him up. If the wounded were ambulatory, they weren‟t that seriously
wounded, they would lower down this little seat. It opened up and one guy would get in.
They would send one from one side of the helicopter and one from the other side. They
would lower them down and the guys would get on the seats and they would hoist them
up. 36:04 But, they also had an explosive device because a lot of times they would raise
up the wires would get caught in the foliage. So, they could blow the cable, so the
helicopter could get out of there. Our two wounded were ambulatory and they lowered
the two seats down and they got them on them, and as they were raising them up, they
were up about three feet, and then a NVA soldier with a RPG shot the medivac and blew
it out of the sky in a big ball of flame. The most heroic thing I ever saw was watching
that thing explode and the crew chief had the presence of mind to blow the cable before
22
�that got around the helicopter. That guy knew he was going to die, and everybody on the
helicopter, but he still had the presence of mind to think of the two guys coming up, my
guys, and he blew the cable and the guys fell down about five feet--but still, watching
that helicopter go down in a ball of flame. 37:07 Then we got in a firefight, we got
there and we did kill the NVA that blew up the helicopter, we killed another NVA, and
we took one prisoner. It was very somber indeed, and then the next day—oh, they sent in
a line company to help us out, you know, with the firefight, and the next day we got word
that we had to go and get the bodies. I thought it was like the movies, they sent people
out to do that. Well, grave registration, or whatever you want to call it. We got to the
helicopter, but even before you got to the helicopter, I can smell it right now, you could
even smell the death, it smelled like a barbeque. It‟s a very sweet and a very think smell
and it even got in your mouth, you could taste it, and if you didn‟t know it was dead
people, you would think, “This smells like barbeque”. 38:07 But, you knew it was dead
and it was Americans, so it was very emotional. I can still smell it right now, I can smell
it. We had to pull the bodies out and they were frozen in position, and when we grabbed
an arm, it fell off; they were burned beyond recognition, like lumps of coal. We got all
five of them out and in body bags and we had to hump them to the nearest LZ site. The
strangest think about that, we had them in the body bags, but the jungle kept tearing the
bags, and it was like the jungle did not want them to leave, and we would have to stop
every once in a while because a body part would fall out, and you would have to put it
back in. They were hard to carry and finally we decided-- luckily they gave us a whole
lot of body bags because the jungle was just tearing them to pieces. 39:05 so we loaded
those body bags into fresh body bags and we tied the body bags—we cut down trees and
23
�we tied them on there, like the old African safaris did with dead animals, and that‟s how
we got them out. It seemed very undignified, but it worked in the jungle. We had them
on our shoulders now instead of down. So, we got them to the LZ and a helicopter came
in and we threw the bodies on and when the helicopter left they called back on the radio
and they said, “Wait on the LZ for a while”, and we did and the people—the people that
picked up the bodies, the medivac people themselves, they knew the dead people. They
came back out with a cold case of beer. The first and only time I had a can of beer in the
jungle, and they had it packed in ice and everything. 40:05 We also took the grenade
launcher down to the medivac and we gave it to those guys and it was something, but that
was very, very sad. Dead Americans and they were burnt to a crisp.
Interviewer: Over the course of the time that you were with your platoon, what
kind of losses did your unit take?
Recon your very lucky, number one, nobody on my team died, nobody, I‟m very proud of
that. A lot of, because I was the point man and the assistant team leader. If you were on
my team you lived. Everybody got the Purple Heart in the whole—except me, I turned
down three Purple Hearts. There was no blood, no pain, I don‟t want the medal.
Interviewer: You did have one pretty close scrape though, and you actually brought
along an artifact here to show that. Can you explain what went on with that?
Yeah, that was on the wiretap mission. I got shot at point blank range by an enemy RPD
machine gun, NVA machine gun. 41:06 That‟s the equivalent of our M60, and I took a
burst right in the chest, right in the heart, and my bandolier saved my life. You can see it
totally destroyed this magazine, I had to pull that one out and throw it away, and the
rounds continued into this magazine, and you can see the hole in the front and the two
24
�heads of bullets coming out the other side. The first question everybody asked me was,
“Did you feel it? Did it knock you down?” I didn‟t feel it when it hit me, I didn‟t feel
anything, and just your natural reactions take over. 42:07 I hit the ground and while I
was laying there I heard all this noise coming out of my chest and it was the bullets from
the first magazine falling out. When I looked down and saw the hole, that‟s when I
realized I had been shot. I laid on that LZ for I don‟t know how long. I knew my guys
didn‟t leave me, but I couldn‟t see them and I knew they were going to call in Cobra air
support, but I still didn‟t know how I was going to get out of there because I was laying
on a bald LZ with no cover. To this day I don‟t know why that North Vietnamese soldier
didn‟t finish me off. I know he saw my chest explode and maybe he thought I was dead.
Like I said, I played dead.
Interviewer: Now were you by yourself at this point?
I had my slack man with me, he was with me, but he didn‟t get shot. 43:00 I was the
only one that got shot, and like I said, I was just lying there. My personal opinion is, I
think that North Vietnamese soldier was waiting for the rest of our guys to come across
and try to retrieve our bodies, so that‟s why he didn‟t shoot at me anymore. That‟s what I
think, I don‟t know. I did throw one grenade at the guy and when I threw it I cursed
myself and then I said, “If this doesn‟t get him”, because I couldn‟t see him, I had no idea
where he was, but he had to be in a bunker, a well hid bunker. When I threw the grenade
I cursed myself and said, “If this doesn‟t get him he‟s definitely going to finish us off
now”, but he didn‟t.
Interviewer: What role did your platoon play in the larger Ripcord operation?
What kinds of things were you doing?
25
�What I can tell you, that ambush in February of 1970, that alerted the whole battalion
that the NVA were moving back out into our area of the mountains. 44:04 So, that was
a valuable piece. Now, what they did with all the stuff we sent in, they analyzed all that
stuff, and we did a lot of—when we found bunker complexes we would record them and
tell them where they were, you know, and all that stuff. When we captured stuff, we
turned it in. We captured a lot of enemy weapons, destroyed a lot of rice, we found a lot
of caches. So in the broad—I don‟t know.
Interviewer: Did you get ambushed yourselves, or did parts of your platoon get
ambushed?
Only that mission, the wiretap mission, you know, when I got hit. Most of my firefights,
we initiated the contact and they never knew we were there. A lot of time when we
would catch them they would be sitting down eating rice. They had no guards out
checking things, and we‟d walk right in on them while they were eating rice.
Interviewer: Now, your referring to the wiretap mission, was it actually going back
to that line that your scout captured to try to tap it? 45:04
Yes
Interviewer: What happened when you went out and did that?
Well, we found the line on our first day. Once we got out there I found this nice place to
set up for the night. The next morning as we were moving out that‟s when our scout
found the line. Then they, I don‟t know who gave the order, I don‟t know if it was
battalion or who, but they wanted us to tap the line. I said to my team, “We don‟t have
any equipment to tap a line”. I figured once we found that line our mission was over,
they were going to pull us out of there and send in the people that do all that stuff. The
26
�team leader said, “They‟re going to send out the equipment to us”, and I said, “You‟ve
got to be kidding”. He said, “A helicopter‟s going to come right over our position and
lower it”. I said, “Every North Vietnamese in this is going to know right where we‟re
at”, but that‟s what they did, a helicopter came out, and they would take up what we took
off the line and drop some more stuff every day, and we didn‟t move for three days.
46:02 Every night I thought we were going to get wiped out, but they never came
looking for us and I don‟t know why, I have no idea.
Interviewer: Did you get ambushed going out?
On our last day, it was July 2nd, they said, “Ok”, they gave us coordinates to a landing
zone, we had all day to get there, and they were going to pick us up the next morning. I
found a nice landing zone on the top of this mountain, and I went up to the top of the
mountain. It was overgrown and you could see that nobody had been up there for years,
so I asked our team leader if he would call up and see if we could get picked up from
there because I knew that this was safe. But they insisted we go to the LZ that they
requested and that‟s where we got out and that‟s when I got hit.
Interviewer: You talked about you were hit with the round that wound up in the
magazine. Were you hit in other places?
No
Interviewer: Okay, but did that just knock you out?
No, I didn‟t feel a thing. 47:04 I heard the burst and your instant reaction is you hit the
ground. I looked behind me and I saw the dirt had been chewed up behind me, and I
knew it was an enemy machine gun because an AK has a very distinct sound and that
wasn‟t it. It sounded like it was coming from behind me, and that‟s why I was looking
27
�behind me, but it was in front of me. Sound is very funny in the mountains, you really—
and we‟re on the top, almost on the top, of this mountain and with the wind blowing you
really can‟t tell where it‟s coming from.
Interviewer: All right, after they take you off that LZ do you get time in the rear?
I have to finish—before we got out, now, I got out, the Cobras cane and I low crawled
backwards across the North Vietnamese that we shot, and who had initiated all this mess,
and I got back to our guys and I thought for sure they were going to let us go back to the
other LZ. 48:09 This is a hot LZ, I don‟t know how many NVA, but there were a lot of
them, a whole lot more than what we had. But they still insisted that we stay there
because the helicopter‟s, they‟re in route. I‟d already been shot, and I said, “Junior, this
is insanity”, and he said, “They‟re on their way”, so he said, “Who wants to volunteer to
get on the helicopter first?” I said, “They already had a shot at me, I‟ll go”. I waited
until I could see the helicopter coming and me and my slack man we went running, and I
was almost in the exact same place where I was—the helicopter, I had a hold of its skid,
and as soon as I grabbed the skid the door gunner jumped up and went like this and the
helicopter left, and I ran back again and said, “Junior, what happened, what happened?”
He said, “They shot the pilot”, so the co-pilot had to get the plane out. 49:00 They
finally re-landed and they said we could go to the LZ that I picked out in the first place.
Interviewer: Did you make it back there safely?
Oh, yes we got out okay
Interviewer: Once you get back do you get any kind of break at that point?
One day
Interviewer: And you go out again?
28
�Out again
Interviewer: Now, did you get any longer breaks over the course of your tour?
Yeah, they would rotate companies, or platoons to Eagle Beach. I think I got to Eagle
Beach three times. You would have a battalion stand down where the whole battalion
comes in from the jungle. You get new uniforms, boots, you know, but that didn‟t
happen that often. My whole tour was basically in the jungle every day.
Interviewer: Now, when you did go to the rear, was that comfortable or relief?
50:05
You got to unwind and you went to the EM club and you could drink beer. I think beer
was ten cents a can, but you know, most of us were careful not to go crazy and really get
drunk, because the next day you were going out and you didn‟t want to go out in the
jungle with a hangover.
Interviewer: Now, when they went to the rear did people in your unit use
marijuana and things like that?
I never saw it, but I could smell it.
Interviewer: In the field, did they do things like that?
No
Interviewer: Did they even smoke cigarettes in the field?
Oh yeah, oh yeah
Interviewer: What would they do at night?
You didn‟t smoke at night. You could see—your senses get so—you‟re like a blind man
with his senses. You could see better, you could hear better, and just a thing from a
cigarette, you could see that so far away, and you could smell the tobacco. We didn‟t
29
�smoke at night at all, never. 51:04 I‟m only speaking about my team and recon, and I
don‟t know about others.
Interviewer: How would you rate or characterize the morale of your platoon during
the time you were with it. What was the attitude of most of the guys?
We were upbeat, we were always cracking jokes. We got very close to one another, it
was a brotherhood. I was closer to the people on my team than I was to my own brother.
You could actually read their minds and they could read your mind, it‟s amazing, it‟s
amazing.
Interviewer: Now, were all the men in your unit white except for the Vietnamese?
No, we had a mixture of blacks, we had a Chicano, we had everybody, we had boys from
the south, we had boys from the north, and we came from all over.
Interviewer: Were you ever aware of racial tensions or things like that?
In the rear, in the rear you would see it, but never out in the field, never, never in the
jungle, never. 52:05
Interviewer: In the rear, was it just kind of self-segregation, guys hanging together?
Yeah, yeah, you know, a lot of times the southern guys would hang together. There were
problems in the rear, there were a lot of problems in the rear, and sometimes I felt safer in
the jungle. But, as far as our teams and everything, there were never any problems. As a
matter of fact, we had a couple of black guys in the recon platoon and they would hang
with us when we got to the rear. Every once in a while they would go and visit if they
had a buddy in one of the other companies, but it‟s a brotherhood, that‟s all I can say.
Interviewer: What kind of attitude did you have toward your officers? Was there a
gap between the officers and the enlisted men?
30
�No, that‟s one good thing about the 101st, the officers, see, the officers get to pick which
division they want to go to. We didn‟t; we had to go wherever they sent us. 53:06 And
a lot of the officers they wanted the 101st Airborne, 1sr Cav, so most of our officers were
very good, I liked all of our platoon leaders, CO‟s, but you know, we didn‟t get to see
them that much. If you‟re in a line company, you got four platoons and you got four
platoon leaders, so you saw your platoon leaders every day. In recon there‟s only one
platoon leader, but there‟s five teams, so you would only see your platoon leader every
fifth mission, so we were basically on our own.
Interviewer: Now, you said over the course of the year, the strength of the platoon
eventually went down. Were you losing guys that weren’t being replaced or were
they moving them out?
The troop withdrawal was going on big time in 1970, so most of the guys we lost, like I
said, in recon we only lost two men the whole year, killed in action, two. One was a
platoon leader and still—he was only with us for two days and I still cannot put a face on
that man, he was only with us two days. 54:05 We lost a point man from another team,
and that‟s the only two recon guys that died. We lost a lot when they got wounded, or
maybe they got send somewhere else, and we just weren‟t getting replacements.
Interviewer: Did you ever take and R&R anywhere?
Yeah, I went to Sydney.
Interviewer: How did that process work? Do you sign up someplace or do you get
to pick where you go?
Yeah, you had a choice. When I was there you could go to Sydney, Bangkok, Thailand,
Hong Kong, I think it was Hong Kong, or Hawaii. And a lot of the married guys,
31
�naturally, they took Hawaii, so they could see their wives. I‟d always wanted to see
Australia, I put in for Australia and I got it. As a matter of fact, I ran into one of the guys
who was in recon, but he re-upped to get out of the field. 55:01 I ran into him and what
they would do was they would fly you to Da Nang and from Da Nang you would go to
wherever you were going. And there he was in Da Nang. I hadn‟t seen him for months
and months, so we went on R&R together.
Interviewer: What was there to do in Sdney?
Sydney was great, the Australians love Americans, they still do, and the Australian
women love American men. They do not like Australian men, but they love us. As a
matter of fact, they had a place it was called King's Cross and it was a whole section, and
they made you feel at home. They had one bar called “The Texas Tavern”, and they
were great people. I loved Australia, great people.
Interviewer: What was it like to have to get back on a plane and go back to
Vietnam?
That was hard, and that‟s why I didn‟t take my R&R until very late in my tour. A lot of
guys after two months said, “I want to go on R&R”. I went very late in my tour and it
was still hard once I got back. And it‟s scary to go back out in the jungle after having
clean sheets, drinking and women and having a good time. 56:02 I‟m having a good
time in Australia and now I have to come back to the middle of nowhere, so that was kind
of hard.
Interviewer: How much time did you have left of your tour when you got back?
Two months, if that.
32
�Interviewer: Toward the end of it, as it’s getting short, did they do anything
different with you, or give you different assignments, or did you just stay with your
unit the whole time?
Well, the way it was supposed to work was, you were supposed to do six months in the
field and then six months in the rear and they would find a rear job for you. That never
happened with me, I did my whole tour in the jungle and I didn‟t know it was my last
mission, but when I got back I looked it up on the bulletin board, and I was leaving the
next day, so I did my whole tour in the jungle. I never got my rear job, never.
Interviewer: What was the response of your team when you told them you were
leaving?
I had a very good platoon leader. The whole platoon was on stand down, they presented
me a lighter with my nickname on it and everything and I got to make a little speech, and
in a way it was kind of hard to leave, you know. 57:09 But, I had watched the guys
before me leave and it‟s very bittersweet. You want to leave, but again, you‟ve become
so close to these guys that you feel for them. It was very bittersweet, but I was happy to
leave, but again, I was sad too.
Interviewer: Physically, how do they get you back to the states?
It‟s amazingly fast, again we out-process, so I had to go back to brigade headquarters at
Camp Evans, and then I had to go to Camp Eagle and out-process out of there, Phu Bai,
the whole thing was repeated in reverse. Then they flew us to Cam Ranh Bay and
processed out of the country. It took about a day to get all that done and then you‟re on a
plane and back to Fort Lewis, Washington where they issued you your new uniform and
you got a steak dinner. 58:06 The people that waited on you were the people going over
33
�to Vietnam and they had a million questions for you, I mean. But you got to pick out
your steak and they gave you your back pay and off to the airport you went and home. I
was home within thirty-six hours of leaving Camp Evans. I was home sitting in my
living room.
Interviewer: The route that you took did you encounter any anti-war protestors at
the airport or anything like that?
No, I was—number one, I got very drunk at the Seattle airport. I had to wait eight hours
for my plane, so what else was there to do? No, I was very lucky. I didn‟t get a non-stop
flight and our plane must have stopped at every airport from Seattle, Washington to New
York City. We stopped in Cleveland, we stopped in Detroit, and we stopped somewhere
else too. 59:01 I landed in New York City because my older sister lived in Manhattan
and I didn‟t know how I was going to get to her apartment, but I was sitting next to a guy
who was going home on leave and he said his mother was picking him up at the airport,
and his mother said that she would take me there, and she did. I got a ride from Kennedy
airport to downtown Manhattan. I surprised everybody in my family one at a time.
Nobody knew when I was coming home, I wouldn‟t tell them.
Interviewer: Now, you’ve got a fairly extensive collection of photographs etc. from
your time in the service. How hard was it for a guy in a recon unit to be carrying a
camera?
I was the only one that had a camera, and I carried it in my side pocket.
Interviewer: Was it easy to get film or to get things developed?
I bought the camera at the PX in Camp Evans and it came with a roll of film. But every
time I got to the rear and go to the PX to get film there was never any film. 00:05 So, I
34
�asked my mother to send me film. My mother would have been the greatest supply
sergeant in the world. She sent me—I got more care packages than anyone, and how she
did it, I don‟t know. She told me she spent eleven hundred dollars just in postage to send
all those packages to Vietnam, and my mother was a waitress.
Interviewer: This tape is out, so we’re going to stop here. How did you get your
pictures developed?
They developed them right there at Camp Evans.
Interviewer: Then did you send pictures home?
Everybody in my family would get a portion of the pictures, and then they would all get
together, and my youngest sister put them all in albums for me.
Interviewer: Now, because you were in the jungle all the time, you didn’t see much
of the civilian population? 1:00
No, we only got a one say stand down and they didn‟t want you to—you couldn‟t leave
Camp Evans unless you had a medical condition in which had to be treated, maybe, at
Camp Eagle. Even then you have to go to the gate and the MP would flag somebody
down and ask if they were going to Camp Eagle, so you could get a ride. They didn‟t let
us out of Camp Evans.
Interviewer: Once you get back to the states, you’re home and discharges, what do
you do?
I went back to my old job.
Interviewer: Now, when you came back did you talk to people about your
experiences in Vietnam?
35
�Well, my close friends, I wrote them all letters and they all knew what I was doing, they
already knew, so they didn‟t—not too many people asked me questions.
Interviewer: At what point did you start to talk more to people about what you saw,
or share more of your stories?
That started in the 1980‟s, there was a school teacher, who I had never met, called our
local American Legion, and he wanted to know if there were any Vietnam vets that
would like to talk to the kids. 2:12 They recommended me and the teacher called me
up. I‟m a very private person and at first I wasn‟t going to do it, plus I was just talking to
this guy on the phone, and he told me he had all kinds of Vietnam vets come in and talk
to his students. He said he even had a draft dodger come in, which I wasn‟t too crazy
about that aspect. See, I didn‟t know what this teacher was looking for. He said he had
politicians come in, he had draft dodgers come in, he had soldiers that were against the
war that came in, he wanted to know if there was somebody, you know, I guess,
somebody like me. I was reluctant and I said to the teacher, “I‟ll tell you what, I‟ll do it,
but I have to meet you face to face and we‟ll sit down and have talk and if we hit it off
I‟ll do it, and if we don‟t hit it off, I‟m not doing it”. This guy, this teacher, he works—
he was a teacher and he drove a taxi cab at night. 3:09 He came over to my house and
he said he could only stay for about an hour, but he ended up staying for four hours. We
talked and when we were done I said, “Ok, I‟ll do it”, and I said, “Do you want me to
make up some kind of a little game plan?” He said, “No, just do what we just did”, and I
said, “Ok, when do you want me?” He said, “How about tomorrow?” And then I did,
and he combined two of his classes, and that‟s still the favorite class I ever did. They
were very smart kids, and I can‟t say enough about the high school kids. They want to
36
�know and you can‟t B.S. them, they know, they‟re smart, but they want to know what
you went through. One of the kids in his class was a foreign exchange student from
Israel. She was a young girl, she was eighteen and she was in her senior year, and when I
was done all the kids came up and they wanted to talk more, and shake my hand. 4:07
This girl said, “When I graduate and go back to Israel, I‟ll be going, it‟s mandatory male
or female, you be in their army. But, you know, nobody‟s heard of John Mihalko in
Israel, but when I get there people are going to know who you are”, and that made me
feel ten feet high. But, all the kids were that way. Then they asked me to come back and
I went back again a couple of weeks later and they all took up a collection and gave me
money, which I didn‟t want to take. I said, “No, no, no”, and they insisted I take the
money, and I donated it to our Ripcord Association, but that‟s just the kind of kids they
were. It‟s amazing, and I‟ve had so many great experiences. I‟ve been lecturing for
twenty-five years now, and I‟m still doing it in Colorado today. I‟ve never had a bad
class and I enjoy it. 5:00
Interviewer: Now, are there stories, or things, you make a point of including in
those presentations that you managed to leave out of this interview so far?
No, what I do is, I give them a brief overview of what I did and then I want questions
from them. In all truthfulness, girls ask more questions than boys. All boys want to hear
about it blood and guts. Girls really make me think. But, I love doing it and I‟ve been
doing it for a long time.
Interviewer: Did you encounter much hostility, or whatever, because you were a
Vietnam veteran? Did that create a problem for you at certain points?
37
�Not in my town. I told you I‟m from Whippany, New Jersey, and even the town
Whippany comes an Indian name that means “the land of the willows”, willow trees. The
people from my town were there before the French and Indian War, we weren‟t even a
country yet, and it‟s a very patriotic little town, so I didn‟t have any problems going back.
6:01 Like I said, I went back to my job I had and as I traveled, yeah, I could see
hostility, I mean a lot of the old veterans didn‟t want anything to do with us. But, I think
that‟s true in all wars, because I know the WWI guys looked down on the WWII guys,
and the Korean guys were the quietest. A lot of them fought in WWII and Korea, or
Korea and Vietnam. The Korean guys are the quietest, see, the Vietnam guys, most of
us, we‟re outspoken, and I‟m sure there were Vietnam guys that looked down on the
Desert Storm guys because that thing was over so fast, I mean—but, that was over fast
because our country learned from the mistakes of Vietnam, I firmly believe that. They
went into it to win it and they won it.
Interviewer: And in that case got out again. When you look back at the time you
spent in the service, what kind of an effect do you think that had on you in the end?
7:03
I value each and every day. I‟m still the same person I was, but I enjoy things more.
When I came home and I got into my house, I turned on the water and I watched the
water run and then I turned it off real quick because I didn‟t want to waste it, but it was
nice seeing running water. I opened the refrigerator and I said, „Wow, I don‟t have to
carry ninety pounds on my back anymore‟. Things like that, I couldn‟t sleep in a bed for
a long time. I slept on the floor for months, so that part changed me, but I‟m still the
same person. I still have the same beliefs and ideals.
38
�Interviewer: Well, you got a good story, you’ve had some practice telling it, but you
do a good job. Thank you very much for taking the time to talk to me.
Thanks for having me. 7:57
39
�40
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
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1914-
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
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Identifier
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MihalkoJ1280V
Title
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Mihalko, John (Interview transcript and video), 2011
Creator
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Mihalko, John
Description
An account of the resource
John Mihalko was born in a patriotic town called Whippany in New Jersey. After graduating high school he worked in warehousing for three years before getting drafted. He got his training at Fort Dix. In Fort Lewis, he got his jungle training. Sent to Vietnam in January, 1970, he was assigned to the reconnaissance platoon of the 2nd Battalion, 506th Infantry, in the 101st Airborne Division. He survived his year in the field, and went on twenty-five or more patrols. His unit was involved in the fighting around Firebase Ripcord between March and July, 1970. Mihalko later helped found the Ripcord Association and organize the first reunion of veterans of that campaign.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Army
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2011-10-06
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
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application/pdf
video/mp4
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a922723d7ed0ef4967c134e30c15aa5e.mp4
9c42bc1f6989e69adc915bc2b7c5cc3c
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7c6ad7a6eaf6c3af3e8f3f4f5578a39d.pdf
344998a2216c4ba4139591be6f0dd0ba
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Korean War
Name of Interviewee: Sherwin Nagelkirk
Length of Interview: (01:39:36)
(00:20) Background Information
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
Sherwin was born in Zeeland, Michigan during the Depression and lived with his
grandparents for 9 years while his father worked on their farm
In 1940 his father felt well off enough to buy his own farm and they moved near Grand
Haven, Michigan
It was a very old house with no running electricity and they had to boil water to heat it
Sherwin began working on his uncle’s farm after he graduated from high school
In July of 1951 Sherwin got a job working for American Seating Company, but should
have continued working on his uncle’s farm
He had not realized at the time that working on a farm was preventing him from being
drafted
About one month after he quit working on the farm he received a draft notice from the
Army
Sherwin had been engaged when he was drafted and it was very hard for him leaving his
fiancée and his family
Sherwin was inducted in Lansing and then was sent to Fort Custer in Battle Creek,
Michigan for more physicals and paperwork
(7:15) Basic Training
•
Sherwin was sent to Fort Riley in Kansas where he spent 16 weeks going through basic
infantry training
•
Training was not hard for him because he had grown up on a farm and had it pretty hard
as a kid
•
He also did well with rifle training because he had spent much time hunting
•
Sherwin did not enjoy night maneuvers and felt pretty lazy by that time of the day
•
One night while they were on maneuvers he hid from everyone till it was very quiet and
then snuck back in the barracks when everyone was sleeping
(14:00) Overseas
•
The men were sent to Oakland, California and later received their orders that they were to
be sent to Korea
�•
There were about 3,000 men on the ship, a converted luxury liner
•
The trip took 14 days and 4 of them they were in a terrible storm that made everyone sea
sick
•
To make things worse they all ate bad turkey one day and had food poisoning
•
They landed in Yokohama, Japan and made their way towards camp near Tokyo
•
They later took a different ship to Inchon, Korea
(18:50) Korea
•
They men got off their ship and made their way through the streets of Inchon while
children begged them for food
•
They took a train quite a ways and then loaded onto trucks; all the time they were
traveling it was freezing cold with no heat
•
Sherwin was assigned to the 25th Infantry Division, 35th Regiment, Fox Company
•
He was quickly started on guard duty and worked also on digging trenches near outposts
to keep in contact with the line
•
Once the trenches were dug they practiced firing M-1s and BARs
(28:30) Heartbreak Ridge
•
Sherwin often worked on guard duty at night near the outposts
•
It was always very cold and snowing all night long, almost too cold to be outside
•
The men would trade working one hour and then have one hour off so that they would
not get sick or frost bite
•
About 6 weeks after arriving in Korea they moved into a reserve area for more training
and were then assigned to work at Heartbreak Ridge
•
Upon arrival they could tell that there had been a massive battle in the area because there
were stinking body parts sticking out all over the ground
•
They only worked at night and were carrying many logs to build traps and set up areas
for machine guns
(38:50) Wounded
•
Sherwin was a corporal and he and his men had been ordered to build a new outpost on
July 4, 1952
•
There were about 6 men assigned for the job; some were to work while others stood
guard
�•
Sherwin kept hearing noises and called out to whoever was coming
•
His sergeant was alarmed when no one answered and threw a grenade towards where the
noise was coming from
•
Moments later another grenade was thrown in between Sherwin’s feet and went off
•
It was a poorly built Chinese grenade, so he was not mortally wounded
•
His men began shooting and there were mortars going off everywhere for a while
•
Eventually the enemy fire ceased and Sherwin was brought near the line to see a medic
•
The medic told him he would have to be evacuated and he was brought to a field hospital
•
Sherwin enjoyed being in the field hospital because he got to take a shower every day and
wear clean clothes
•
5 days later he was told he would have to go back to the line because they needed his cot
for men that were wounded more severely
(47:50) New Position
•
The men were given a new position across from the front line
•
They later had a presentation and Sherwin was awarded a silver star
•
They were staying in bunkers behind a large hill and it was raining constantly
•
Later the men had to travel about 5 miles along side a mountain and there was a strange
liquid oozing out of the ground the entire way
•
Sherwin believed it was from all the rain mixing with the buried bodies
(57:00) Kojido Island
• The men were relieved of their positions on Heartbreak Ridge and sent to Kojido Island
where all the prisoners were being kept
• They took trucks and stopped on Pusan before boarding a ship to be sent to the island
• They island was very far away from the Ridge and the weather was completely the
opposite; nice and warm
• Sherwin spent time watching over the prisoners while they were on work detail
• After he left there was an uprising and fight between the Chinese and Korean prisoners so
they had to keep them on separate islands
• Sherwin later had R & R in Japan and flew there in a plane
�• The city he visited was very crowded with people driving cars, trucks, and scooters; no
one ever used the breaks but were always using their horns
(1:08:25) Moving North
•
They left the island and moved North through Korea
•
It seemed like they were in no hurry to get to their location because they were making
many random unnecessary stops
•
They continued North and it was getting very cold; they always had to sleep outside
•
The men were only allowed a certain amount of kerosene per tent for heat
•
One of Sherwin’s friends stole some extra kerosene and he was later demoted and court
marshaled
•
A few days after reaching their destination Sherwin received orders in the middle of the
night that he would be going back to the US
(1:18:45) Back to US
•
Sherwin and a few other men took some trucks down towards the coast and later were in
Sasebo, Japan
•
They loaded onto a ship and this trip took 18 days; they landed in Seattle in the middle of
the night
•
There was a welcoming ceremony for them the next day and it was all very exciting
•
Sherwin took a bus through Washington and then a train to Fort Custer
•
He had a 30 day furlough, but still had another 3 months to serve
•
Sherwin was then sent to Fort Sheridan in Illinois where he was ordered to a small base
to watch over Chicago for unidentified flying aircraft
•
He did not like the men he was working with; they were all very lazy and at any given
time about 25% of them were AWOL
(1:28:10) Discharged
•
Sherwin was “released” from the Army, but not yet discharged
•
He got married on August 13, 1953 and had had 3 children by December 1956
•
He then received a letter from the reserves noting that he was “no longer available” for
service because he had too many dependants
•
Sherwin was finally discharged in 1959
�•
He began working for American Seating Company again and retired 38 years later
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
NagelkirkS
Title
A name given to the resource
Nagelkirk, Shewin J. (Interview outline and video), 2009
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Nagelkirk, Shewin J
Description
An account of the resource
Sherwin Nagelkirk was born in Zeeland, Michigan and lived with his grandparents growing up during the Depression while his father worked on their farm. Sherwin was drafted into the Army shortly after graduating from high school in 1951. He went through basic training at Fort Riley in Kansas and then received orders to go to Korea. Once in Korea Sherwin was assigned to the 25th Infantry Division of the 35th Regiment, Fox Company. He was wounded in the Heartbreak Ridge sector, where he won a Silver Star. He later worked on guarding prisoners on Kojido island.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2009-04-16
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4c6d22d411df999502a4e7f2b6b57157.m4v
2b0e7859de7f2a8facb2ca18d01612d7
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/df67396f899f4560c4c18aead5dedd12.pdf
91dee1205571597f5c2f486aac7fde5d
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Interviewee’s Name: John Michels
Name of War: World War II
Length: (00:38:53)
(00:10) Background Information
John was born on March 22, 1920 in Park Ridge, Illinois
John grew up in Illinois and was drafted into the Army after graduating from high school
He chose to go into the Army Air Force because he had always been intrigued by
airplanes and wanted to by a pilot
They would not let him be a pilot because he was color blind and he then decided to
become an engineer
(3:25) Training
John went to school in Boston where he learned basic information on aircraft for 2
months
He then took more classes in Wisconsin for another 2 months studying engineering and
repairs of aircraft
They went through a bit of training at an Air Force base in Texas and then formed their
squadrons to take off to San Francisco, and then the Pacific
(7:55) Leaving California
They took off from San Francisco and landed first in Hawaii, then Christmas Island, and
a few others
Each plane was carrying 2-400 gallon tanks in its cabin because the flight would last 16
hours
They could not fly faster than 199 mph and reached about 15,000 feet
The squadron eventually landed in Townsend, Australia and waited for their base on New
Guinea to be completed
(9:30) New Guinea
Their base was at Port Moresby near the airstrip, which was mostly just made up of
flattened grass
John was very scared the first time he left New Guinea on a mission to drop off supplies
After they had been living on the base for a while the Japanese had taken most of the
island
John was a technical sergeant, but often flew as co-pilot and had to help the pilots fly
�(16:45) Missions
Whenever they saw Japanese beyond trees in the horizon they would dive into the cover
of the trees
They could not fly very high and just made it over the mountains of New Guinea
They left for missions at the same time every day
Most of the mountains ranged from 18,000-22,000 [8,000-12,000?], while the planes
could only reach 15,000 feet
They had to search for valleys between the mountains to fly through, which was often
difficult because it was cloudy so far up and hard to see
(24:25) Biak Island
John was later stationed on Biak Island, north of New Guinea, for about a year
It rained for about fifteen minutes right around 4:00 pm every day and then it would be
nice and sunny
It was a fun place to be stationed and they often spent time swimming on the beach
They lived in tents above the ground on stilts to keep out the many snakes and poisonous
spiders
There were many young Japanese snipers hiding in the trees
(29:10) End of Service
John left Asia in November of 1944 and had been serving in the Pacific for 2 years
Instead of flying back they took a ship, which he did not enjoy and the trip lasted 30 days
There were two separate times where the engine had problems in the middle of the ocean
and they had to sit there and worry about being attacked by submarines
They landed in Los Angeles and then flew to an Air Force base in Utica, New York
John had the second largest amount of points of all the men in his squadron
Those who did not have enough points would continue fighting in the Pacific
John remained stationed in New York, but broke his leg and spent 6 months recuperating
He was later sent to Miami, Florida in 1945 to be discharged
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MichelsJ
Title
A name given to the resource
Michels, John H. (Interview outline and video), 2004
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Michels, John H.
Description
An account of the resource
John Michels was born on March 22, 1920 in Park Ridge, Illinois and was drafted into the Army after graduating from high school. He was given the option of joining the Army Air Force, but not allowed to become a pilot because he was color blind. John then chose to go into engineering and took classes for aircraft in Boston and in Wisconsin before he became a technical sergeant. He was later stationed at Fort Moresby in New Guinea where they flew on missions every day delivering supplies to troops throughout the Pacific. After that John was also stationed on Biak Island and eventually gathered enough points to be sent back to the States before the war had ended. John was discharged in Miami, Florida in 1945.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mangione, Nathaniel (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2004-05-06
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives