21 24 1541 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b56006ec58b2c820a44c940938adcc38.mp4 62bd8c620319ec76090554ebea25c04d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0ab7572c5cc8ab7a1e49d5c309c61b4b.pdf ebd668d8c076ee3268a0f58dd47b7cb7 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans' History Project John Baker III Post-Korean War Cold War (00:00:11) Early Life, World War II, and the Korean War -Born in Kalamazoo, Michigan in 1935 -Grew up in Kalamazoo -Remembers ration stamps during World War II -Wasn't too concerned about the war because he was so young -Only ten years old when the war ended -Remembers a lot of young men joining the military -Soldiers from Fort Custer came to Kalamazoo on Friday nights -There was a night club, called “High Club Hollywood” popular with the troops -Some uncles, cousins and his older brother served during the war -He was 15 years old when the Korean War began -Thought about the possibility of getting drafted if the war lasted long enough -Didn't think about the war too much -Got his GED when he entered the Army (00:03:00) Enlisting in the Army -Wanted to get married and was looking for a full-time job -Had a part-time job at a local grocery store, but that wouldn't be good enough to start a family -The mid-1950s were a bad time for employment -Knew that he didn't want to enlist in the Navy -Uncomfortable with being so far from land -Enlisted in the Army with the promise that he and his best friend would serve together -Army didn't make good on that promise -Went into the Army knowing you would get whatever assignment the Army gave you -Signed up for four years -Wanted to get training with roto scrapers and tractor operator training -Planned on working for the township after he got out of the Army -Felt the Army would be good job training -Sent to Detroit for processing and a physical -Enlisted in 1954 (00:07:12) Basic Training -Sent to Camp Chaffee, Arkansas for basic training -Located in the hills and swamps -Terrible for digging foxholes -Had to clear a field of rocks -One drill instructor named Sergeant Pigg was a great instructor -Tough during training, but good to soldiers once the day was done -Remembers one man nicknamed “Sergeant Slaughter” that was in charge of bayonet training -First time that he had ever heard so much profanity, and so much of it directed at him -Feels that R. Lee Ermy's character from Full Metal Jacket is an accurate depiction of drill sergeants -Physical training was difficult for him, but it brought best out of him -Some men couldn't handle the training -They were either held back, discharged, or beaten into submission -Basic training lasted for about a month to a month and a half �(00�:11:47) Specialized Training -Sent to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri for specialized training -Learned how to build Bailey bridges -Portable, prefabricated truss bridge designed by the British during WWII -Able to support a tank -Remembers men wanting to go home -Worked with timber trestle bridges -Had to construct one then tear it down -Trained there for a month -Planned on going to a heavy engineering school in West Virginia (00:15:00) Assignment to Alaska -Sent to Fort Lewis, Washington and got assigned to Alaska -Assigned to a machine shop in Alaska -Sailed from Fort Lewis to Alaska -A lot of the men got seasick because they had never been to sea -Nobody ate much during the voyage -Went on a troop transport -Pulled into Whittier, Alaska -Small base of Camp Sullivan -Boarded a train and went to Fairbanks -Assigned to Eielson Air Force Base -Had empty barracks for Army personnel -Arrived in Alaska in May 1954 (00:17:46) Stationed at Eielson Air Force Base -Worked in the machine shop in the Adak Building -Building from Adak moved to Eielson Air Force Base -Had a couple lathes, a small mill, and a lot of basic hand tools -Received almost no machine shop training other than some experience as a civilian -Assigned to be the carpenter in the machine shop -Sergeant agreed to give him a little training, but the rest of it he had to learn on his own -Realized in hindsight how rewarding the work was -Made parts to repair broken items -Had to make parts to modify a 120mm gun -Someone fired a nearby 120mm emplacement and he thought he was dead -Army and the Air Force shared the base -Air Force brought in material the Army needed -Stationed there for two years (00:21:24) Winter & Summer in Alaska -Noticed that the married men had a lot of children -There wasn't much to do during the winter except that -Went on drills during the winter -Went on one bivouac for two weeks during the winter -Had a mobile machine shop truck for use during the bivouac -Meant he could use his electric razor because the tools needed electricity -Shared a tent with five other soldiers -Coldest it got during the winter was -54°F -No problems with frostbite -Army made sure the men had adequate gear for the winter -Dealt with mosquitoes in the summer �-After the summer solstice the sun didn't set for too long at night -Remembers reading the newspaper at 2 AM with sunlight (00:25:42) Downtime in Alaska -Read newspapers and drank 3.2% beer -Spent time with his wife and daughter -There was married housing for sergeants and their wives -Part of a carpool with the other married sergeants and their wives -Wives went to the PX to get food because local shops were too expensive -Resulted in the men having to hitchhike 30 miles home (00:28:52) Cold War -Only focused on what was happening in Alaska -Not in Europe or around the United States -Interested in the jets that flew over Alaska -Jets had 45 minutes to take off and intercept a possible enemy aircraft -Ground personnel had only 30 minutes to react -Aware of the possibility of a Soviet attack -Had procedures to move out of the base quickly -Gathered gear and loaded it onto trucks (00:32:24) Door Incident -There was a door in the machine shop that didn't close properly if it wasn't shut hard enough -The men complained if the door didn't shut because it allowed the wind in -One time John slammed the door shut to insure that it closed all the way -Resulted in a huge sheet of ice falling and breaking his nose (00:33:29) Stationed at Fort Lewis -Sent back to Fort Lewis, Washington -Assigned to work as a truck mechanic -Minimal experience with mechanic work -Only experience he had was from working on cars as boy -Greased trucks, changed their oil, and performed inspections -Lived on the base and off the base -There were more things to do in Washington than in Alaska -Stayed outside of the city -Base was 15 minutes from Tacoma -Wife was pregnant at the time -Work at Fort Lewis was similar to a civilian day job -Didn't have emergency drills for a Soviet attack like in Alaska (00:37:14) End of Service -No encouragement from the Army to reenlist -Disappointed about not getting to continue his machine shop work at Fort Lewis -Got to do different tasks in the Army, but not what he wanted -Thought about reenlisting so he could serve in West Germany with his brother -Reconsidered after thinking about how disappointing the four years had been -Contracted meningitis at the end of his enlistment -Had only two weeks left of his enlistment -Army told his parents to come to Fort Lewis -Thought he wouldn't survive the infection -Spent about two months in the hospital -Friends snuck beer into the hospital for him -Supposed to get discharged on April 15, 1958 �-Meningitis delayed his discharge until June 18, 1958 (00:40:05) Life after the Army -Returned to Kalamazoo, Michigan -Employment opportunities opened up due to machine shop experience -Worked for the Kalamazoo Sled Company -Father worked for them during the Great Depression -Made $1.30 an hour -This is compared to $42 a month in the Army -Army helped with paying for children though -Received $130 a month allowance since he was married and had a child -Worked in a paper mill -Made a career out of working for the Upjohn Company -Attended a trade school -Paid for by the GI Bill (00:43:48) Reflections on Service -Would do a lot of things differently if he did it again -Grew up a lot -Sergeant Pigg made him grow up a lot -Realized that none of the training was dangerous, just uncomfortable at times -Gained practical skills from the Army -While in Alaska he used his new machine shop skills to make candle holders for his wife (00:45:49) Honor Flight -Oldest daughter encouraged him to go on the May 2015 Talons Out Honor Flight -Trip to Washington DC to honor veterans from WWII, Korea, and the postwar era -Overwhelming experience -Worthwhile trip -Day started at 5:30 AM and got back to Michigan at 11 PM -Participated in a big parade and got treated to multiple meals throughout the day -Celebration ended at East Kentwood High School -Greeted and thanked by thousands of people -Once in a lifetime experience � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context BakerJ1916V Title A name given to the resource Baker, John H III (Interview outline and video), 2016 Description An account of the resource John Baker III was born in Kalamzoo, Michigan in 1935. He grew up in Kalamazoo and enlisted in the Army in 1954. John received basic training at Camp Chaffee, Arkansas and engineer training at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. Upon completion of his training he was sent to Fort Lewis, Washington where he took a ship to Alaska. He was assigned to Eielson Air Force Base near Fairbanks, Alaska for two years and worked in the machine shop. Upon completion of duty in Alaska he returned to Fort Lewis, Washington and served for two years as a truck mechanic. At the end of his service he contracted meningitis, and once he recovered from that was discharged from the Army on June 18, 1958. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Baker, John H. III Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-02-05 Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8f3f7e8d8b716855bb7d55f9deb9abbf.m4v bea81b94a4fd3d77f6792f423f56ec74 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bbe61ac1090882b5b1630a9a57a064ee.pdf 7068b035c13e1c96833a85fd9a623ac0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Annemarie Hortman World War II – Civilian Part 1 – 1 hour 56 minutes 24 seconds (00:00:18) Early Life - Rangsdorf -Born in Rangsdorf, Germany, on April 14, 1939 -Mother worked before Annemarie’s birth, but stayed home to care for her -Father served in the Wehrmacht in Italy -Uncle served on the Russian Front and was killed-in-action -Father beat her, because he hated her -It was a relief for him to report for service and go away -Forced her to goosestep like a fascist soldier, and he hit her if she didn’t walk right (00:03:34) Early Life – Ingolstadt -Moved to Ingolstadt (near Munich) when she was a year old and mother was pregnant with brother -Traveled there by train -Remembers the train stopping by a ditch, and the passengers being ordered off the train -Heard an air raid siren -Didn’t know what it meant -Stayed in Ingolstadt until September 1940 -Stayed with her mother and grandmother -Put a blanket in front of the windows at night because of air raids -Never remembers her mother giving the Nazi salute -Remembers a siren at night -Told to put on two pairs of underwear and socks, a winter coat, boots, a hat, and gloves -Mother and grandmother had bag full of important documents and family jewelry -Went to the bomb shelter in Ingolstadt -Built into a hill -Went through an iron door, down a flight of concrete steps into a concrete chamber -There were wooden benches along the walls -Noticed there was no other exit, and started to cry -Then she looked up and saw air vents, which comforted her -Came back to her grandmother’s house after the raid and saw it was fine -Brother was born in Ingolstadt in August 1940 (00:18:40) Early Life – Return to Rangsdorf -Moved into another house when they returned to Rangsdorf -Remembers an old man that was their neighbor -All of the children called him “uncle” and loved him -Lived in a duplex house on the ground floor -Remembers a woman that lived there that her mother instructed her to call “aunt” -She and her brother were never allowed to go too far from the house -Remembers she and her brother breaking their mother’s umbrella by using it like a small boat -The house they lived in belonged to a Nazi officer -The woman they called “aunt” was the officer’s wife -Father came home during this time -The Nazi officer came back, and they never saw him or the “aunt” ever again -Her mother was allowed more food because she had two children �-Father brought home canned fruit from Italy, but didn’t give any of it to the family -He brought it to his mistress instead -Lived in several different houses in Rangsdorf -Only moved personal belongings, never furniture -Moved from cottage to cottage (most likely former vacation homes of wealthy Germans) -Always had the feeling that someone lived there, and there were forbidden rooms -Most likely Jewish citizens hiding in the houses -Stayed in a larger house for one night in the last two years of the war -Stayed with an older man -She and her family lived upstairs (00:32:34) The Fall of Germany Pt. 1 -Russians bombed them day and night -Always going up and down the stairs, stopped bothering to change clothes -Remembers a Russian bomb landing near the house -Adult went upstairs and went outside -She got a bloody nose -Possibly from the concussion -All but that house and one other house survived -The rest of the neighborhood was destroyed -Numerous neighbors killed in that raid -Last major action she remembers of the war (00:38:09) Food in the War -Mother usually bought flour, sugar, and other basic food items -Remembers her younger brother expressing his younger -Knows that some neighbors got extra food -Most likely feeding hidden Jewish citizens -Near the end of the war, resorted to eating beets, dandelions, and wild nuts -The old man they lived with found some fresh tomatoes and gave them to Annemarie’s mother (00:41:45) The Fall of Germany Pt. 2 -In 1945, the war came closer to Rangsdorf -Russians were on the offensive, pushing toward Berlin -Dealt with five or six months of near continuous air raids and bombardment -Starvation was more of a problem for her during the war than direct violence (00:43:03) Russian Occupation -Russians came into Rangsdorf and labeled anything they wanted as “contraband” -Confiscated the “contraband” for themselves -Remembers a Russian soldier choking her, her brother, and her mother -Neighbor got her and her brother away from the soldier -The Russian soldier gave up the intimidation and left -She told her mother that she hated the Russians -Mother told her never to hate anyone just because of their country of origin -Stuck with her her whole life -Also told Annemarie to question why the Russians were so violent -Possibly getting revenge for how Germans treated Russians -She and other children hid in a neighbor’s rabbit cages when Russian soldiers came around -Remembers playing near a bomb shelter -Russian soldier ordered her to get away from it -There was a live bomb near the shelter; soldier didn’t want Annemarie to get hurt -Russians took food from the grocery store �-German men tried to get some boxes of food while a Russian plane strafed them -Mother went down to the grocery store and grabbed a box of food while being shot at -Wound up being a box of candy, not real food like she wanted -Russians came the next day and took everything, even Annemarie’s backpack -One of the Russian soldiers broke a candy bar in half -Gave each half to Annemarie and her brother -Russian soldiers routinely searched their house -Cut open the mattress to look for mattress (00:53:38) Living in Post-War Rangsdorf -Moved into an abandoned villa -Father came home briefly after the war, then visited periodically to steal food -Bringing the stolen food to his mistress in Berlin -Got Annemarie’s mother pregnant -Her mother found out the name and address of the mistress -Confronted the mistress, said she was pregnant, and to leave the father alone -Mistress refused -Moved to another place in Ramsdorf around Christmas 1946 -She and her brother gathered pine branches to give to their mother to make her happy -Father tried to take away the pine branches, but her mother intervened -Mother took the pine branches to Berlin, and traded them for a little food as a Christmas gift -While her father was home, Annemarie got in a fight and lost -She came home from the fight, crying, and her father beat her -Told her to go find the boy, fight him again, and win (which she did) Tape stops here, and starts at (00:00:00) for Part 2, however this is not the “Part 2 disc” (00:00:11) Living in Post-War Ingolstadt -Father visited only to steal food -Mother decided to leave Rangsdorf in 1947 -Moved back to Ingolstadt and stayed with her grandmother (mother’s mother) for a while -Ingolstadt had been bombed, but was in better shape than Rangsdorf -Occupied by American soldiers, not Russian soldiers -Collected coal from trains -She and her brother took a train to Berlin for an adventure -Brother decided they should climb across the bridge’s structure to get over the rail yard -Police officer caught her and her brother at the other side of the bridge -Put them on a bridge back to Rangsdorf (00:05:02) Getting to Ingolstadt -Mother decided they needed to leave Rangsdorf to get away from the father -Went to Berlin and got stopped by German officials -Ordered to return to Rangsdorf -Mother, Annemarie’s infant sister, little brother, and herself started walking on the highway -Remembers sleeping under an overpass -Kept walking and got to the East/West German border -Russian soldiers forbade them from going through the checkpoint -An old German man told them to go off the road, under a bridge, into the woods -Stayed quiet and walked through the woods -Waited for the Russian guard to pass, then they continued -Ate a can of cold soup then passed into West Germany �-Stood at the top of a hill and could still see the Russian checkpoint -Picked up the highway and continued walking until they reached a train station in Bavaria -Mother put them on a train and planned on joining them later -Annemarie and her brother got off the train, but their mother wasn’t there -Red Cross officials cared for them until their mother came back to the train station -Finally boarded a train together and got to Ingolstadt (00:19:50) Interactions with Russian Soldiers -Remembers learning a Russian swear word from watching Russian soldiers trying to ride a bike -They heard her repeating it and told her not to say it because it was a bad word -Some of the Russians spoke limited German -One female Russian soldier taught them how to ask for food from Russian soldiers -Taught them a word that would endear them to the Russians -Showed her that not all of the Russian soldiers were bad (00:22:56) Living in Ingolstadt (Post War) Pt. 1 -Grandfather had everything confiscated by the Nazis, for speaking against Hitler -Lost his home, job, and truck -Sent to an insane asylum, then jail, then used for hard labor -In 1947 he built a new house in Ingolstadt -Grandfather had been a baker, but also made money dealing in scrap metal and scrap clothing -Released from custody after the war -Found his confiscated vehicle in the possession of a Nazi officer -Officer’s mother sold it to him -Officer came home and forced the grandfather to buy it again -By 1947 he had rebuilt his life -They stayed with her grandfather in Ingolstadt -Grandfather had a cow that Annemarie cared for -Built a barn and got a piglet -Insects chewed off the piglet’s ears, so they let it live in the house -Put it back in the barn once it was grown -Someone shot and killed the pig -Grandfather had the meat processed, but she and her family couldn’t eat it (00:32:54) Going to School Pt. 1 -Had only six months of school in Rangsdorf -Lost her hearing due to abscesses in her ears (possibly caused by bomb concussion) -Eventually resolved itself, but never completely regained her hearing (00:36:17) Living in Ingolstadt (Post War) Pt. 2 -Grandfather was self-sufficient and built everything he needed -This included buildings and necessary machines -Step-grandmother was Swiss -People disliked her because she was brutally honest and Swiss -Annemaried liked her step-grandmother because she was good and kind to Annemarie -Had trouble finding an apartment in Ingolstadt due to Germans that fled East Germany -They refused to leave Ingolstadt and returned to East Germany -Mother finally got an apartment in Ingolstadt -Remembers watching motorcycle races -There were a lot of American soldiers in Ingolstadt -Majority of them were good -Some of them were bad and committed rapes -American soldiers gave them food �-Russian soldiers had just thrown food on the ground -Amusement to watch children fight for food -Noticed some economic and social changes happening in Germany -Immediately after the war people had to buy food on credit -Grandfather gave them candy and made his own liquor -The apartment they moved into had been a former soldier’s home (00:48:57) Going to School Pt. 2 -Began going to school normally in Ingolstadt -Forced to speak High German, not Bavarian German -7th grade teacher didn’t like her very much -5th grade teacher liked her and defended her from the 7th / 8th grade teacher -Allowed her to graduate as an 8th grader despite only finishing 7th grade -Went to occupational school -Studied business for one semester, but decided she didn’t like it -Studied engineering, but didn’t complete the course -Got married before she got an engineering job -Thinks the 7th grade teacher may have been a former Nazi officer -Didn’t like Annemarie because she looked Jewish (darker hair, non-Aryan features) Part 2 – 1 hour 52 minutes 34 seconds (00:00:28) Finding a Colt -Right after the war ended they went looking for her paternal grandmother in Rangsdorf -Saw a field of dead soldiers and dead livestock -Found half of a dead soldier -She and her brother wanted their mother to fix him like a doll -Didn’t understand that a human couldn’t be fixed like that -A colt came up to them and started following them -Little brother wanted to keep the horse as a pet -Passed a wooded area and saw six dead German soldiers -Got to the village where the grandmother lived -House was bombed out and abandoned -Mother went inside and found some sugar -Went to an aunt’s apartment and it was bombed out too -Russian soldier came up and demanded the horse -The children refused -Another Russian soldier wanted to make a deal: a can of meat for the horse -Their mother insisted they make the exchange -Mother could read English -Knew it was canned pork from the United States (00:07:08) Finding a German Grenade -In a swamp near Rangsdorf she and some other children found a German hand grenade -Didn’t know what it was and they started playing catch with it -A teenager came up to them and took the grenade -Threw it into the swamp where it exploded (00:08:55) Collecting Apples -She and her brother went to the swamp near Rangsdorf to scavenge for mushrooms -One of Annemarie’s friends came along and told them where they could find apples -Brought them to an abandoned house with an apple orchard �-Filled their bag and began walking home -A Russian soldier wanted an apple, and Annemarie agreed to sell to him -He bought two apples for 20 Deutsche Marks -When she got home her mother told her to never deal with Russian soldiers again (00:12:50) Acting in Ingolstadt -Maternal grandmother and grandfather were divorced, but saw them both in Ingolstadt -Grandmother had been an actress -Got Annemarie involved with acting -She did skits where she played an old woman or another skit where she danced -Started acting when she was 12 years old and did it until she was 17 years old -Performed at beer gardens doing song and dance routines -Remembers dancing with a professional foxtrot dancer -Didn’t know she could keep up with him -Later learned that that dancer had been her grandmother’s dancing partner in the acting days (00:24:23) Meeting Her First Husband -Met her first husband through a gypsy friend -She had been at a move and three boys followed her home, and her friend drove them off -After that incident she was at a dance hall late into the night -Friend’s boyfriend’s friend (an American soldier) offered to drive her home -After that he started pursuing her -The American soldier started visiting her every weekend and writing her letters -Her mother and stepfather grew to like him -Met her first husband in 1957 -At the time she was going to school for engineering and working as a seamstress -Took an engineering test and tried to get a job with Audi -They wanted her, but the quota was filled -Asked her to come back next year, but she got married in that time -One weekend Charlie (the GI) didn’t visit or write her any letters -She worried that he was in trouble -When he showed up she realized she loved him and wanted to marry him (00:35:42) Marriage to First Husband -Made an agreement to live in Germany for a few years then move to the United States -Had a good marriage with Charlie when they lived in Germany -Had a daughter together and they were a happy family (00:37:40) Divorcing First Husband -In 1960 they moved to the United States -He flew back to the US with the Air Force -Annemarie and her daughter flew to New York City then to Pittsburgh -Her in-laws picked her up at Pittsburgh and mother-in-law instantly disliked her -Charlie showed up three days later -She found out that he was going with other women behind Annemarie’s back -Found his wallet and realized he lied about how much money he made -Gave her a meager stipend and spent the rest of his money on mistresses -Found one of his mistress's phone number -Started the divorce process and kicked him out of the house -Called the mistress and said she could have Charlie, because she didn’t want him -Moved into a trailer with her daughter, but couldn’t find a park -Ex mother-in-law had connections and kept Annemarie out of the parks -Found a private park and moved there �-Ex-mother-in-law found out where Annemarie lived -Started sending men to Annemarie to proposition her for sex to harass her -Ex mother-in-law stole Annemarie’s television -Ex mother-in-law started picking up Annemarie’s daughter from the babysitter -Had to go through five babysitters to avoid the woman -Friends advised her to get legal help -Charlie had a powerful lawyer though, stopping Annemarie from taking legal action (00:51:42) Second Marriage -Got tricked into marrying another man -Lived together from 1963 to 1964 -He abused her and her daughter -In spring 1964 she called her parents to get plane tickets to Germany -Returned to Ingolstadt with her daughter -Husband followed them two weeks later -Fortunately they worked opposite shifts in Germany -Met her old friend’s fiance and befriended him -Husband was convinced the fiance was pursuing Annemarie -Her husband tried to slit her throat then started to beat her -He left and she immediately started packing to get out of the house -He came home and punched through the door’s window -She woke up in an ambulance en route to a hospital -Wrote a letter to his boss in the US and got him sent back to the US -He left then sent tickets to her to go to the US -She couldn’t stay in Germany or he would come back -Moved to New York City -Stayed with a cousin for a couple weeks then got a job as a housekeeper for a lawyer Tape starts over at 00:00:00 however the story continues (00:00:04) Living in New York City and Oregon -Worked for the lawyer and cared for his baby girl -She had a terrible diaper rash and Annemarie cured it -Worked for the lawyer for a while until private detectives started coming to the house -Looking for Annemarie on behalf of the second husband -Went out to Oregon to be with an old friend on her wedding day -Friend decided not to get married, but fortunately it got her out of New York City -Did odd jobs and got assistance from welfare (paid for rent and electricity) -Got food from a pantry once a month -Met a couple through a friend -They were good people, had children, and Annemarie’s daughter got along with the children -Couple wanted to move back to Michigan and have Annemarie and her daughter join them -They could live with them (00:08:26) Living in Michigan -Lived with the family from Oregon -Got a job in Grand Rapids, Michigan, as a seamstress -Experienced discrimination for being an immigrant -As a result she befriended other shunned, immigrant workers -Did good work as a seamstress and got a better job �(00:14:33) Marrying Bill Hortman -Met a man named Bill through one of her coworkers -Started dating him, but was worried he would be like her previous husbands -Realized he was a good man -Married Bill Hortman -He taught her how to golf -They had two sons together, and Bill adopted her daughter -Had to get the adoption approval from Charlie -Ex-mother-in-law and her sister showed up demanding that Annemarie come home -To get married to Bill she had to get divorced from her second husband -They had separated, but never gotten a divorce -Told him that she was pregnant and that prompted him to divorce her -He dragged his feet for a while, then began the process -Annemarie told the ex-mother-in-law to leave her alone -Charlie’s mother tried to manipulate her by saying Charlie was in an abusive relationship -Annemarie told her that he could deal with it -Also had to deal with her second husband’s car payments because he couldn’t make them -She had cosigned -Eventually got away from that -Charlie’s mother stopped bothering her after seeing how Annemarie and Bill loved each other -She and Bill fought, but he never held a grudge or followed other women -Bill served in the Marines as an aircraft mechanic in World War II (00:36:57) Relationship with Parents (Adult Life) -Her mother and stepfather started visiting in 1972 -Visited every three or four years -During a visit in 2000 her stepfather had a stroke -Stepfather enjoyed the US and always wanted to stay -Flew stepfather back to Germany for treatment after his stroke for treatment by his doctor -He recovered from the stroke -In 2005 she flew back to Ingolstadt because her stepfather was in bad shape -Her mother took care of him at home -It was wonderful to see her mother in such a loving relationship (00:44:34) Annnemarie’s Biological Father -She never had contact with biological father in her adult life -She has a photo of him from the 1950s -Only keeps it as a part of the family record -Biological father had tried to molest her in Ingolstadt -Grandfather stopped him -Not long after that incident Annemarie’s mother divorced the father -He came back once to try and take her brother -Her brother had lived with him for a few years -He never let him get any gifts from Annemarie or her mother � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HortmanA1944V2 Title A name given to the resource Hortman, Annemarie (Interview outline and video 2), 2016 Description An account of the resource Annemarie Hortman was born in Rangsdorf, Germany, on April 14, 1939. When she was only a year old she moved to Ingolstadt and stayed there until September 1940. At such a young age and that early in the war she remembers getting off a train during an air raid, and going into a community bomb shelter in Ingolstadt. For the rest of the war, Annemarie lived in Rangsdorf. During the last six months of the war she experienced daily bombings due to the Soviet Union’s invasion of Germany and final push toward Berlin. After Germany’s surrender, she and her family stayed in Rangsdorf during part of the Soviet occupation enduring the random and often arbitrary brutality of the Soviet troops. In 1947, Annemarie, her mother, her brother, and sister fled Rangsdorf on foot and sneaked across the East/West German border. They walked to Ingolstadt where she lived until she got married to an American serviceman. Annemarie and her first husband had a child and moved to the United States in 1960. Due to her husband’s infidelity the first marriage failed, and after moving around the country and a second divorce, she met Bill Hortman and settled down with him in Walker, Michigan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hortman, Annemarie Boettner Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-09-16 Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7f557900793211aa7f56c1e7c82cebe7.m4v 358c7facb71e3867489b09e588533994 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d3822c283ef9e881f0436359490972a9.pdf 7068b035c13e1c96833a85fd9a623ac0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Annemarie Hortman World War II – Civilian Part 1 – 1 hour 56 minutes 24 seconds (00:00:18) Early Life - Rangsdorf -Born in Rangsdorf, Germany, on April 14, 1939 -Mother worked before Annemarie’s birth, but stayed home to care for her -Father served in the Wehrmacht in Italy -Uncle served on the Russian Front and was killed-in-action -Father beat her, because he hated her -It was a relief for him to report for service and go away -Forced her to goosestep like a fascist soldier, and he hit her if she didn’t walk right (00:03:34) Early Life – Ingolstadt -Moved to Ingolstadt (near Munich) when she was a year old and mother was pregnant with brother -Traveled there by train -Remembers the train stopping by a ditch, and the passengers being ordered off the train -Heard an air raid siren -Didn’t know what it meant -Stayed in Ingolstadt until September 1940 -Stayed with her mother and grandmother -Put a blanket in front of the windows at night because of air raids -Never remembers her mother giving the Nazi salute -Remembers a siren at night -Told to put on two pairs of underwear and socks, a winter coat, boots, a hat, and gloves -Mother and grandmother had bag full of important documents and family jewelry -Went to the bomb shelter in Ingolstadt -Built into a hill -Went through an iron door, down a flight of concrete steps into a concrete chamber -There were wooden benches along the walls -Noticed there was no other exit, and started to cry -Then she looked up and saw air vents, which comforted her -Came back to her grandmother’s house after the raid and saw it was fine -Brother was born in Ingolstadt in August 1940 (00:18:40) Early Life – Return to Rangsdorf -Moved into another house when they returned to Rangsdorf -Remembers an old man that was their neighbor -All of the children called him “uncle” and loved him -Lived in a duplex house on the ground floor -Remembers a woman that lived there that her mother instructed her to call “aunt” -She and her brother were never allowed to go too far from the house -Remembers she and her brother breaking their mother’s umbrella by using it like a small boat -The house they lived in belonged to a Nazi officer -The woman they called “aunt” was the officer’s wife -Father came home during this time -The Nazi officer came back, and they never saw him or the “aunt” ever again -Her mother was allowed more food because she had two children �-Father brought home canned fruit from Italy, but didn’t give any of it to the family -He brought it to his mistress instead -Lived in several different houses in Rangsdorf -Only moved personal belongings, never furniture -Moved from cottage to cottage (most likely former vacation homes of wealthy Germans) -Always had the feeling that someone lived there, and there were forbidden rooms -Most likely Jewish citizens hiding in the houses -Stayed in a larger house for one night in the last two years of the war -Stayed with an older man -She and her family lived upstairs (00:32:34) The Fall of Germany Pt. 1 -Russians bombed them day and night -Always going up and down the stairs, stopped bothering to change clothes -Remembers a Russian bomb landing near the house -Adult went upstairs and went outside -She got a bloody nose -Possibly from the concussion -All but that house and one other house survived -The rest of the neighborhood was destroyed -Numerous neighbors killed in that raid -Last major action she remembers of the war (00:38:09) Food in the War -Mother usually bought flour, sugar, and other basic food items -Remembers her younger brother expressing his younger -Knows that some neighbors got extra food -Most likely feeding hidden Jewish citizens -Near the end of the war, resorted to eating beets, dandelions, and wild nuts -The old man they lived with found some fresh tomatoes and gave them to Annemarie’s mother (00:41:45) The Fall of Germany Pt. 2 -In 1945, the war came closer to Rangsdorf -Russians were on the offensive, pushing toward Berlin -Dealt with five or six months of near continuous air raids and bombardment -Starvation was more of a problem for her during the war than direct violence (00:43:03) Russian Occupation -Russians came into Rangsdorf and labeled anything they wanted as “contraband” -Confiscated the “contraband” for themselves -Remembers a Russian soldier choking her, her brother, and her mother -Neighbor got her and her brother away from the soldier -The Russian soldier gave up the intimidation and left -She told her mother that she hated the Russians -Mother told her never to hate anyone just because of their country of origin -Stuck with her her whole life -Also told Annemarie to question why the Russians were so violent -Possibly getting revenge for how Germans treated Russians -She and other children hid in a neighbor’s rabbit cages when Russian soldiers came around -Remembers playing near a bomb shelter -Russian soldier ordered her to get away from it -There was a live bomb near the shelter; soldier didn’t want Annemarie to get hurt -Russians took food from the grocery store �-German men tried to get some boxes of food while a Russian plane strafed them -Mother went down to the grocery store and grabbed a box of food while being shot at -Wound up being a box of candy, not real food like she wanted -Russians came the next day and took everything, even Annemarie’s backpack -One of the Russian soldiers broke a candy bar in half -Gave each half to Annemarie and her brother -Russian soldiers routinely searched their house -Cut open the mattress to look for mattress (00:53:38) Living in Post-War Rangsdorf -Moved into an abandoned villa -Father came home briefly after the war, then visited periodically to steal food -Bringing the stolen food to his mistress in Berlin -Got Annemarie’s mother pregnant -Her mother found out the name and address of the mistress -Confronted the mistress, said she was pregnant, and to leave the father alone -Mistress refused -Moved to another place in Ramsdorf around Christmas 1946 -She and her brother gathered pine branches to give to their mother to make her happy -Father tried to take away the pine branches, but her mother intervened -Mother took the pine branches to Berlin, and traded them for a little food as a Christmas gift -While her father was home, Annemarie got in a fight and lost -She came home from the fight, crying, and her father beat her -Told her to go find the boy, fight him again, and win (which she did) Tape stops here, and starts at (00:00:00) for Part 2, however this is not the “Part 2 disc” (00:00:11) Living in Post-War Ingolstadt -Father visited only to steal food -Mother decided to leave Rangsdorf in 1947 -Moved back to Ingolstadt and stayed with her grandmother (mother’s mother) for a while -Ingolstadt had been bombed, but was in better shape than Rangsdorf -Occupied by American soldiers, not Russian soldiers -Collected coal from trains -She and her brother took a train to Berlin for an adventure -Brother decided they should climb across the bridge’s structure to get over the rail yard -Police officer caught her and her brother at the other side of the bridge -Put them on a bridge back to Rangsdorf (00:05:02) Getting to Ingolstadt -Mother decided they needed to leave Rangsdorf to get away from the father -Went to Berlin and got stopped by German officials -Ordered to return to Rangsdorf -Mother, Annemarie’s infant sister, little brother, and herself started walking on the highway -Remembers sleeping under an overpass -Kept walking and got to the East/West German border -Russian soldiers forbade them from going through the checkpoint -An old German man told them to go off the road, under a bridge, into the woods -Stayed quiet and walked through the woods -Waited for the Russian guard to pass, then they continued -Ate a can of cold soup then passed into West Germany �-Stood at the top of a hill and could still see the Russian checkpoint -Picked up the highway and continued walking until they reached a train station in Bavaria -Mother put them on a train and planned on joining them later -Annemarie and her brother got off the train, but their mother wasn’t there -Red Cross officials cared for them until their mother came back to the train station -Finally boarded a train together and got to Ingolstadt (00:19:50) Interactions with Russian Soldiers -Remembers learning a Russian swear word from watching Russian soldiers trying to ride a bike -They heard her repeating it and told her not to say it because it was a bad word -Some of the Russians spoke limited German -One female Russian soldier taught them how to ask for food from Russian soldiers -Taught them a word that would endear them to the Russians -Showed her that not all of the Russian soldiers were bad (00:22:56) Living in Ingolstadt (Post War) Pt. 1 -Grandfather had everything confiscated by the Nazis, for speaking against Hitler -Lost his home, job, and truck -Sent to an insane asylum, then jail, then used for hard labor -In 1947 he built a new house in Ingolstadt -Grandfather had been a baker, but also made money dealing in scrap metal and scrap clothing -Released from custody after the war -Found his confiscated vehicle in the possession of a Nazi officer -Officer’s mother sold it to him -Officer came home and forced the grandfather to buy it again -By 1947 he had rebuilt his life -They stayed with her grandfather in Ingolstadt -Grandfather had a cow that Annemarie cared for -Built a barn and got a piglet -Insects chewed off the piglet’s ears, so they let it live in the house -Put it back in the barn once it was grown -Someone shot and killed the pig -Grandfather had the meat processed, but she and her family couldn’t eat it (00:32:54) Going to School Pt. 1 -Had only six months of school in Rangsdorf -Lost her hearing due to abscesses in her ears (possibly caused by bomb concussion) -Eventually resolved itself, but never completely regained her hearing (00:36:17) Living in Ingolstadt (Post War) Pt. 2 -Grandfather was self-sufficient and built everything he needed -This included buildings and necessary machines -Step-grandmother was Swiss -People disliked her because she was brutally honest and Swiss -Annemaried liked her step-grandmother because she was good and kind to Annemarie -Had trouble finding an apartment in Ingolstadt due to Germans that fled East Germany -They refused to leave Ingolstadt and returned to East Germany -Mother finally got an apartment in Ingolstadt -Remembers watching motorcycle races -There were a lot of American soldiers in Ingolstadt -Majority of them were good -Some of them were bad and committed rapes -American soldiers gave them food �-Russian soldiers had just thrown food on the ground -Amusement to watch children fight for food -Noticed some economic and social changes happening in Germany -Immediately after the war people had to buy food on credit -Grandfather gave them candy and made his own liquor -The apartment they moved into had been a former soldier’s home (00:48:57) Going to School Pt. 2 -Began going to school normally in Ingolstadt -Forced to speak High German, not Bavarian German -7th grade teacher didn’t like her very much -5th grade teacher liked her and defended her from the 7th / 8th grade teacher -Allowed her to graduate as an 8th grader despite only finishing 7th grade -Went to occupational school -Studied business for one semester, but decided she didn’t like it -Studied engineering, but didn’t complete the course -Got married before she got an engineering job -Thinks the 7th grade teacher may have been a former Nazi officer -Didn’t like Annemarie because she looked Jewish (darker hair, non-Aryan features) Part 2 – 1 hour 52 minutes 34 seconds (00:00:28) Finding a Colt -Right after the war ended they went looking for her paternal grandmother in Rangsdorf -Saw a field of dead soldiers and dead livestock -Found half of a dead soldier -She and her brother wanted their mother to fix him like a doll -Didn’t understand that a human couldn’t be fixed like that -A colt came up to them and started following them -Little brother wanted to keep the horse as a pet -Passed a wooded area and saw six dead German soldiers -Got to the village where the grandmother lived -House was bombed out and abandoned -Mother went inside and found some sugar -Went to an aunt’s apartment and it was bombed out too -Russian soldier came up and demanded the horse -The children refused -Another Russian soldier wanted to make a deal: a can of meat for the horse -Their mother insisted they make the exchange -Mother could read English -Knew it was canned pork from the United States (00:07:08) Finding a German Grenade -In a swamp near Rangsdorf she and some other children found a German hand grenade -Didn’t know what it was and they started playing catch with it -A teenager came up to them and took the grenade -Threw it into the swamp where it exploded (00:08:55) Collecting Apples -She and her brother went to the swamp near Rangsdorf to scavenge for mushrooms -One of Annemarie’s friends came along and told them where they could find apples -Brought them to an abandoned house with an apple orchard �-Filled their bag and began walking home -A Russian soldier wanted an apple, and Annemarie agreed to sell to him -He bought two apples for 20 Deutsche Marks -When she got home her mother told her to never deal with Russian soldiers again (00:12:50) Acting in Ingolstadt -Maternal grandmother and grandfather were divorced, but saw them both in Ingolstadt -Grandmother had been an actress -Got Annemarie involved with acting -She did skits where she played an old woman or another skit where she danced -Started acting when she was 12 years old and did it until she was 17 years old -Performed at beer gardens doing song and dance routines -Remembers dancing with a professional foxtrot dancer -Didn’t know she could keep up with him -Later learned that that dancer had been her grandmother’s dancing partner in the acting days (00:24:23) Meeting Her First Husband -Met her first husband through a gypsy friend -She had been at a move and three boys followed her home, and her friend drove them off -After that incident she was at a dance hall late into the night -Friend’s boyfriend’s friend (an American soldier) offered to drive her home -After that he started pursuing her -The American soldier started visiting her every weekend and writing her letters -Her mother and stepfather grew to like him -Met her first husband in 1957 -At the time she was going to school for engineering and working as a seamstress -Took an engineering test and tried to get a job with Audi -They wanted her, but the quota was filled -Asked her to come back next year, but she got married in that time -One weekend Charlie (the GI) didn’t visit or write her any letters -She worried that he was in trouble -When he showed up she realized she loved him and wanted to marry him (00:35:42) Marriage to First Husband -Made an agreement to live in Germany for a few years then move to the United States -Had a good marriage with Charlie when they lived in Germany -Had a daughter together and they were a happy family (00:37:40) Divorcing First Husband -In 1960 they moved to the United States -He flew back to the US with the Air Force -Annemarie and her daughter flew to New York City then to Pittsburgh -Her in-laws picked her up at Pittsburgh and mother-in-law instantly disliked her -Charlie showed up three days later -She found out that he was going with other women behind Annemarie’s back -Found his wallet and realized he lied about how much money he made -Gave her a meager stipend and spent the rest of his money on mistresses -Found one of his mistress's phone number -Started the divorce process and kicked him out of the house -Called the mistress and said she could have Charlie, because she didn’t want him -Moved into a trailer with her daughter, but couldn’t find a park -Ex mother-in-law had connections and kept Annemarie out of the parks -Found a private park and moved there �-Ex-mother-in-law found out where Annemarie lived -Started sending men to Annemarie to proposition her for sex to harass her -Ex mother-in-law stole Annemarie’s television -Ex mother-in-law started picking up Annemarie’s daughter from the babysitter -Had to go through five babysitters to avoid the woman -Friends advised her to get legal help -Charlie had a powerful lawyer though, stopping Annemarie from taking legal action (00:51:42) Second Marriage -Got tricked into marrying another man -Lived together from 1963 to 1964 -He abused her and her daughter -In spring 1964 she called her parents to get plane tickets to Germany -Returned to Ingolstadt with her daughter -Husband followed them two weeks later -Fortunately they worked opposite shifts in Germany -Met her old friend’s fiance and befriended him -Husband was convinced the fiance was pursuing Annemarie -Her husband tried to slit her throat then started to beat her -He left and she immediately started packing to get out of the house -He came home and punched through the door’s window -She woke up in an ambulance en route to a hospital -Wrote a letter to his boss in the US and got him sent back to the US -He left then sent tickets to her to go to the US -She couldn’t stay in Germany or he would come back -Moved to New York City -Stayed with a cousin for a couple weeks then got a job as a housekeeper for a lawyer Tape starts over at 00:00:00 however the story continues (00:00:04) Living in New York City and Oregon -Worked for the lawyer and cared for his baby girl -She had a terrible diaper rash and Annemarie cured it -Worked for the lawyer for a while until private detectives started coming to the house -Looking for Annemarie on behalf of the second husband -Went out to Oregon to be with an old friend on her wedding day -Friend decided not to get married, but fortunately it got her out of New York City -Did odd jobs and got assistance from welfare (paid for rent and electricity) -Got food from a pantry once a month -Met a couple through a friend -They were good people, had children, and Annemarie’s daughter got along with the children -Couple wanted to move back to Michigan and have Annemarie and her daughter join them -They could live with them (00:08:26) Living in Michigan -Lived with the family from Oregon -Got a job in Grand Rapids, Michigan, as a seamstress -Experienced discrimination for being an immigrant -As a result she befriended other shunned, immigrant workers -Did good work as a seamstress and got a better job �(00:14:33) Marrying Bill Hortman -Met a man named Bill through one of her coworkers -Started dating him, but was worried he would be like her previous husbands -Realized he was a good man -Married Bill Hortman -He taught her how to golf -They had two sons together, and Bill adopted her daughter -Had to get the adoption approval from Charlie -Ex-mother-in-law and her sister showed up demanding that Annemarie come home -To get married to Bill she had to get divorced from her second husband -They had separated, but never gotten a divorce -Told him that she was pregnant and that prompted him to divorce her -He dragged his feet for a while, then began the process -Annemarie told the ex-mother-in-law to leave her alone -Charlie’s mother tried to manipulate her by saying Charlie was in an abusive relationship -Annemarie told her that he could deal with it -Also had to deal with her second husband’s car payments because he couldn’t make them -She had cosigned -Eventually got away from that -Charlie’s mother stopped bothering her after seeing how Annemarie and Bill loved each other -She and Bill fought, but he never held a grudge or followed other women -Bill served in the Marines as an aircraft mechanic in World War II (00:36:57) Relationship with Parents (Adult Life) -Her mother and stepfather started visiting in 1972 -Visited every three or four years -During a visit in 2000 her stepfather had a stroke -Stepfather enjoyed the US and always wanted to stay -Flew stepfather back to Germany for treatment after his stroke for treatment by his doctor -He recovered from the stroke -In 2005 she flew back to Ingolstadt because her stepfather was in bad shape -Her mother took care of him at home -It was wonderful to see her mother in such a loving relationship (00:44:34) Annnemarie’s Biological Father -She never had contact with biological father in her adult life -She has a photo of him from the 1950s -Only keeps it as a part of the family record -Biological father had tried to molest her in Ingolstadt -Grandfather stopped him -Not long after that incident Annemarie’s mother divorced the father -He came back once to try and take her brother -Her brother had lived with him for a few years -He never let him get any gifts from Annemarie or her mother � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context HortmanA1944V1 Title A name given to the resource Hortman, Annemarie (Interview outline and video 1), 2016 Description An account of the resource Annemarie Hortman was born in Rangsdorf, Germany, on April 14, 1939. When she was only a year old she moved to Ingolstadt and stayed there until September 1940. At such a young age and that early in the war she remembers getting off a train during an air raid, and going into a community bomb shelter in Ingolstadt. For the rest of the war, Annemarie lived in Rangsdorf. During the last six months of the war she experienced daily bombings due to the Soviet Union’s invasion of Germany and final push toward Berlin. After Germany’s surrender, she and her family stayed in Rangsdorf during part of the Soviet occupation enduring the random and often arbitrary brutality of the Soviet troops. In 1947, Annemarie, her mother, her brother, and sister fled Rangsdorf on foot and sneaked across the East/West German border. They walked to Ingolstadt where she lived until she got married to an American serviceman. Annemarie and her first husband had a child and moved to the United States in 1960. Due to her husband’s infidelity the first marriage failed, and after moving around the country and a second divorce, she met Bill Hortman and settled down with him in Walker, Michigan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hortman, Annemarie Boettner Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Language A language of the resource eng Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-09-16 Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/96936028d896e99a5f4fefb022ba2aa8.mp4 57e6aa0252839b10febe5cef0bfcf3b7 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5e26910a49cd306c7ff98141956ece71.pdf be0d8b7a25011e81f4ac4f2eb8d844cf PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Notes Length: 1:00:41 Ben VanSlooten WWII Veteran United States Army; May 13, 1943 – October 30, 1946 Transportation (0:20) Reaction to Nazi Party coming to power • United States seemed to think that it was Europe’s problem • Discussion of history of the rise of the Nazi Party (1:08) United States opinion of war • U.S. wanted no part in war; felt it was Europe’s problem • After invasions took place in Europe, there was a peace time draft (1:50) Pearl Harbor • Shocked the US • Surprised that someone dared to attack us • Afterward, there was concern that Japan might attack the west coast o West coast = poorly defended (3:08) Home Front • Most factories began producing wartime materials like landing crafts, airplanes, etc. • Women entered the work force o Rosie the Riveter • Rations • Increasing number of people drafted • U.S. O. came into being and provided entertainment • Schools sold war stamps for $18.25 which could become a $25 bond at maturity • ROTC • People were careful not to say anything that would aid the enemy o Posters with the slogan “Loose Lips Sink Ships!” (4:54) VanSlooten’s wartime experience • His dad was a farmer • People took rationing very seriously; some items were scarce o Sugar, gas, clothing • After high school, worked for a sub-contractor of Cessna Aircrafts making glider planes • When turned 18, he was drafted o Drafted December 19 • Before being drafted, he and his friends would look for metal to melt down for the war (scrap metal) (6:20) Before the Service • Worked part time for a trucking company • Defense plant �• Because worked at a plant helping war effort, VanSlooten was offered deferment from draft status • All his friends were in the military and so decided to go into the Army instead (7:04) Basic training • Armory in Grand Rapids where took a bus to Holland, MI where boarded train to Kalamazoo then Camp Grant in Illinois for uniforms, shots, and tests • Went to a camp in Pennsylvania where assigned to battalions o 4 companies – A, B, C, D • VanSlooten was only one from group to be assigned to Company C o Lonely at first o Youngest man in Company • After 3 months was given leave before shipped overseas • No travel on planes, just buses and trains which were crowded o Even though crowded, servicemen were often sent to the front of the line! o Seemed that everyone tried their best to do nice for the soldiers (9:10) To Europe • 10 days crossing the North Atlantic • Got very seasick • Arrived in Scotland o Had to have small boats ferry soldiers to shore because the docks were not made to hold the big ships • Watched Queen Elizabeth or Queen Mary sail in (9:55) Introduction to war • Air raids and barrage balloons • D-Day o Floating unloading docks o Bombers o Troop carrier planes carrying paratroopers to land behind the fortifications o Omaha Beach was met with terrible resistance; horrendous number of casualties o Utah Beach was successful; troops pushed through the first day (11:08)German v. US production • US in a better situation • Germans had many factories bombed and also used up many men and supplies on the Russian Front (11:18) Ernie Pyle • War correspondent • “lived” with the troops during the war and wrote about his experiences • Wrote: o “This is Your Way” o “Final Chapter” o “Brave Men” ƒ The book’s dedication reads: “In a solemn salute to those thousands of our comrades, brave, brave men that they were, for whom there will be no homecoming ever.” �(12:56) D-Day • VanSlooten was in Foy, England – near Plymouth, England • Half of Company left the day before but bad seas so came back • VanSlooten’s company became the first American ship to sail into port at Antwerp, Belgium • To get there, a British minesweeper sailed first • When arrived, there were many reporters and photographers (14:06) Invasion of Holland • Became a re-supply outfit • Loaded gliders to go to England to drop supplies • Military operation in Netherlands o British man, Montgomery, called it “Market Basket” (Market Garden) o 90% successful (16:07) Belgium • Unloaded ships and moved cargo to trucks that went to supply the front lines • Red Ball Express o First priority trucks o Front license plates had a red ball o When came through, everyone else got out of the way so could pick up gas or whatever else they needed • Friend in outfit from New York o Never drove before in a big 6 by 6 Army truck o Hard to keep up with convoy o One day, completely demolished a vegetable stand by the side of the road o VanSlooten’s friend never made it home (17:48) Locations throughout WWII • Overseas about 2 ½ years • Base in England with 29th infantry division (the division that hit Omaha and had terrible casualties) • Flew in planes and would kick supplies and aid out of the C-47s (19:00) Battle of the Bulge • Was in Belgium during the Battle of the Bulge • The weather had been so hazy that when the weather lifted, everybody felt huge relief because the fighter planes and bombers could help the soldiers in the trenches out. • Everybody in his company was given rifles and started to set up defensive lines • Lucky because the Germans never got that far • Story o Heard that some guys who played in an Army band (who had probably never held a rifle in their life) were given rifles and told to “fall in”. (21:25) Reaction of the Belgium people to the US entry into Belgium • Belgium people were very friendly • There were American barracks and German barracks; US kicked Germans out and interesting because on the wall in the German barracks, there were murals showing clean shaven German soldiers shooting down scraggily American troops �• Some Belgium people were probably sympathetic to the Germans but did not admit it. • Seemed like the girls were most sympathetic to the Germans • When the Germans left, the girls who showed sympathies to the Germans were shunned • Dangerous on the streets o One girl went out for something at night and did not come back o The German army snatched her up and put her in a work camp o Her parents had no idea where she was (26:04) War over • Elated feeling, victorious, no more killings, could go home! o Able to go home about 5 months after the war ended • To kill time, they would play baseball, basketball, football, used to referee for basketball games (28:00) Other duties while in war • Clerical work o Morning reports o When guys were missing, would document o Condolence letters o Take care of some of the sick leave guys • Writing so many condolence letters was hard • If had enough time to think about the people receiving the letters, it was rough • You got used to writing the letters but not hardened to it (33:34) Interactions with soldiers from other countries • Chow lines in Belgium o Everyone had mess kits o You would go through the chow lines and put all food in pail o Lots of Belgium civilians would be at the end of the line where would clean out pails o Soldiers would try to leave a little extra food in their pails so that the Belgium people would get some food • France o On a rest leave in Paris, Allied troops were served lots of dry wine not sweet wine; everyone was trying to get sweet wine o A soldier rattled off some words in French and soon everyone was served sweet wine o VanSlooten turned around and saw that the guy who rattled off the French was from North Africa with a huge scar across his face and neck with yellowish teeth…all he remembers thinking is that he was glad that guy was on his side! (36:21) Reunion • First time in house, it felt so small • GI Bill • Great to see those who made it home • Not too many people he knew from home were killed �(40:50) Companies • He was in Company C o Company B also went to Europe o Company A and B went to the Pacific (41:53) Combat • Didn’t fight in hand-to-hand combat but saw a lot of bombing • Germans had jet planes by the end of the war • Planes went so fast that would often miss their targets! (41:59) Stories from the war • Not personally involved in hand to hand combat • Talked to a sergeant from the 29th infantry (Omaha Beach) o Combat was horrific o Germans would wait with machine guns and just slaughter the soldiers coming in on gliders o Some units suffered 100% casualties (43:50) Tanks • On D-Day for landing, the tanks had huge inner-tubes around them so that they could “float” to shore • No one made it • Credit to all the troops because all drove right off of ship into certain death (44:31) First air raid • In Plymouth, England • VanSlooten was in the orderly room at night • CODE PURPLE, which meant hit the air raid shelters or trenches right now! • VanSlooten was a Battalion Runner o Run messages to camp headquarters o Always would have steel helmet and gas mask in cabinet o Shared room with supply sergeant who was very jumpy – always kept his helmet and gas mask on his bed • When got back, found gas mask and helmet gone, his roommate’s had taken VanSlooten’s and forgot his own on his bed • When VanSlooten saw his roommate, it was so funny because the helmet didn’t fit him – it was down to his shoulders (48:48) Procedure with air raids • Go to shelters or trenches or underground shelters (51:54) What war taught • Marveled at the sacrifices patriots made • Unfortunately, keeping the peace in not a unilateral decision (53:04) Kamikaze • Had a good friend who was on a pocket carrier • Came under kamikaze attack • Friend survived (55:23) England • VanSlooten was around a big Navy instillation • He was offered a place to shower, to eat steak with them, and to watch a movie �• • o Was really well taken care of VanSlooten was curious why he was being treated so well The guy said he was at Normandy the day after D-Day and anything he could do for a soldier, he will. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanSlootenB Title A name given to the resource VanSlooten, Ben (Interview outline and video), 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource VanSlooten, Ben Description An account of the resource Ben VanSlooten served in the United States Army during WW II from May 13, 1943 to October 30, 1946 in the European Theater. VanSlooten discusses life on the home front, his time in basic training, D-Day, the Battle of the Bulge, Operation "Market Basket" (Market Garden), interactions with soldiers from other countries, and his first air raid. He talks about the chow lines in Belgium, a restaurant in France, acts of kindness in England, and the Red Ball Express in Belgium. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Howard, Scott (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-05-31 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a144c4f1d20e90eb8a523e8ae28eaf34.pdf 70a5996f0a5a88f49286794a463611dd PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam Robert Vandermolen Total Time – (18:22) Background • • • • He enlisted August 26, 1974 Nearly all of his family had served (00:32) He says that everyone is lucky to go to war and come back out (01:20) He gained a lot of respect from his father for serving (01:47) Active Duty – (01:51) • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • When he came home, everyone hated the military men (02:01) o A rock band tried to pick a fight with him on his way home He did not get to know any of the Vietnamese people (02:30) It was extremely hot and humid (02:50) He served in a combat mission in Cambodia (03:21) o It was finally declassified in 2000 He worked with mortars, machine guns, explosives, etc during the war (04:20) o He was part of fire support  They would fire explosives to thin out the enemy (04:59) His division was known as the “walking dead” (05:17) The food was very bad during the war It was not very difficult to get acclimated to life when he came home There was extensive training (06:20) o Yet, no one is prepared to go into war (06:48) He flew to Vietnam He landed in Yokohama, Japan (07:19) o Was snowed in here – then traveled to Okinawa o From Okinawa, they traveled to U-Tapao, Thailand where they exchanged for operations in Cambodia (07:39) o Did evacuations from Phnom Penh, Cambodia and Saigon (Ho Chi Minh City), Vietnam (07:44) He was there near the end of the war Most of the soldiers serving did not think that they would ever go home He keeps in touch with some of the guys he served with (09:08) He spent some time in the Philippines and then went to Korea (10:37) Every country was extremely different to go to Many of the natives in the different countries tried to rob them (11:12) �• • • • • • He enjoyed Thailand the most o The people were nice (11:56) He trained with the Navy, but did not spend much time with any other branch (12:52) o The Marines were self-contained He believes the Marine Corps will open up young men’s eyes (14:00) o The marines changes a person for life  Positive changes He believes that war is like a disease (14:40) He began seeing the war more realistically when he returned (14:57) He was 18 years old when he went into the Marines (15:35) After the Service – (17:03) • • • • After the marines, he sold cars (17:10) He then began working on oilrigs (17:20) He worked on building bridges for some time as well (17:55) Also spent some time working with metal fabrication � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VandermolenR0995V Title A name given to the resource Vandermolen, Robert (Interview outline), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Vandermolen, Robert Description An account of the resource Robert Vandermolen enlisted into the Marine Corps in 1974 when he was 18 years old. He spent several weeks training before he was sent to Yokohama, Japan. From Japan, he traveled to Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, the Philippines, and Korea. In Vietnam and Cambodia, he assisted with the evacuations of civilians when their governments fell. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mitleer, Katherine (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Marine Corps Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-05-08 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/477456467f891c0a199346fbd5fa8d24.mp4 08a5145afd65f2b69cb514a2ccd0acae https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/60e8d80bcf22a0a0d973d15d6e46cf54.pdf c4046b118b9f88e198a58b897231a8fc PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Cold War Era Interviewee: Ken Vandenberg Length of Interview: 00:23:25 Background:          Born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, in 1938. Mother was a homemaker and his father was a farmer He as 3 brothers and 3 sisters. One of his brothers passed away when his was only 4 months old. Before he entered the service, he worked at a dairy, bottling milk and processing different dairy products. After the war, he worked at a delivery man and delivered dairy products for 22 years. His uncle served as a sergeant major in the Dutch military during WWII. He was a very educated man, and a high officer. Ken spent some time with his uncle while he was in the service and he thought that his uncle was top notch and a great man. (2:05) He was once told that his uncle was wanted by Hitler. Nazi soldiers came to his grandmother’s house and asked for him. She said he was not there. They told her if she was lying they would kill her too. However, they did not find him, as she kept him well hidden. He also had a brother that was stationed in Korea during the Korean War. Ken was drafted for service in the Army in December and entered in January, 1962. Training (3:35)           Early days of training were busy. They were doing so many things that it seemed like such a short time. He was hoping things would slow down and they eventually did when he got stationed in Fort Knox, Kentucky. Things started going back to normal when they settled in at Fort Knox for basic training, but that first week was hectic. He did a lot of marching while he was there. They also did a lot of target practice with the M-1 Rifle. He also did some other training, though he cannot recall what it was. After basic he was sent to Fort Gordon, Georgia, for his military police training. (5:10) There were a lot of different things he had to do for training while he was there. One thing he had to learn was map reading. Another part of his training was self-defense. He learned a lot of judo and karate. He also had to take classes while he was there on the things that military police had to do. After training was complete, he was shipped to France to serve for two years. �  Adapting to military life was not that easy. It was all about following orders. It was also about being part of a team. Sometimes you forget that you are in the military and you would be outside cleaning sidewalk cracks with a toothbrush. Active Duty France (7:10)               He served in La Rochelle, France during the Cold War Era. During his time in the military, he heard a lot about the Bay of Pigs. Russia had been sending weapons to Cuba, which the United States viewed as a threat. So he and others were preparing to leave to go to Cuba, if necessary. Where he was stationed, the MP’s were a really close unit. Most of them got along pretty good together. He stayed in touch with his friends and family back home through letters mostly. However, if it was a special occasion, like his parent’s anniversary, he phoned home. He often forgot what time it was back home because of the time difference. So when he called home, it was the middle of the night. He got it from his dad because of it. (9:15) When he was off duty, he did a lot of bowling. He really enjoyed it. He had a company commander who loved bowlers. He and his bowling buddy were invited to a tournament because of their averages. They also played softball, and a little football. He was not really scared, but mostly apprehensive, especially when the Bay of Pigs came about. However, when Russia pulled their ships out, things got back to normal. While he was in France, he worked in the military police. He did a lot of patrolling. He also did guard duty at different bases, but he mostly did patrolling. He got out of the Army on December 7,1963. Post Duty (11:49)            He thought the world of President Kennedy, and he was assassinated by Oswald. He though Kennedy was the greatest commander-in-chief. When he got out of the service to visit family and friends. His brother owned a farm and needed help picking corn, since they did not have the big combines yet. After he was done at the farm, he went back to work at the dairy as a driver/salesman. He is not a member of any veterans’ organizations. In the little village of Martin, he and other veterans from every era, get together and talk about things and march around in parades. (14:10) While he was in the service, there were no women in the MP unit. He shows some of the things he used to use while he was a military policeman. First, a nightstick. Many people think you use this to beat the bad guys up, but really it is supposed to be used to fend the guy off, so you can pull out your gun. All military police carry a .45 with 6 rounds of ammo. �                    He also has an album from his time in Europe. Some of it is from when he had some time off and took a trip to the Netherlands. There is also a photo of him when he made soldier of the month. (16:10) How you get to be the solider of the month, they ask you questions about military, civilian and other question, to make sure that you are kind of up-to-date about what is going on around the world. They also want to know how you are doing in sports or politics, or whatever. You never know what they are going to ask, but he must have done pretty well because he won it. He also has a hat from his time in the service. He used to have all of the emblems on there, which were made of gold. However, when he got out, a friend of his was going into the MP, so he sold him all of the emblems. He never had to shine them because they never corroded. He wished he would have kept it, but back then he did not think it would have made a difference. He also has his discharge papers. He ended up getting out 2 months early because his mother was sick. She was complaining to everyone that she was never going to see her youngest son again. He does not remember who told him that but he went to his company commander and they got him back home (18:50) While he was on duty one night, the transportation sergeant had been in his vehicle downtown and he had too much to drink. He was sitting in his car at a red light, and when it turned green, he did not move. So Ken and his partner went to check it out and found him sleeping. Ken decided that if he did not give him any trouble he would drive the man back to his base and get him off the road. So that’s what they did. The next morning the sergeant woke up and did not remember how he got home. Ken told him that he drove the guy back here. The guy told him that when it was time for Ken to go home to come see him, because he would make sure that Ken flew home. (20:30) So when he was ready to go home, he went back to see him and sure enough he flew home. He went to Paris and got on the plane and as they were shipping out, they were called back. Turns out that one of the planes tires blew. While they were working on the tire, they were taken to a hotel near the airfield to get some food. While they were out, it was discovered that the plane’s brakes were out. If that tire had not blown, he could have died. He was nervous after that, and the guy who was going home on emergency, because his wife was having a baby was more nervous than he was. (22:05) When he got home, arriving at Fort Dix, he was told that if he stayed an extra couple of days, he would just get discharged and he would not have to come back. So he waited. He was in the Reserves until December 1967. Then, he was truly discharged. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VandenbergK0994V Title A name given to the resource Vandenberg, Kenneth (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Vandenberg, Kenneth Description An account of the resource Ken Vandenberg of Grand Rapids, Michigan, was drafted into the Army in 1961. After basic training at Fort Knox, he went to Fort Gordon, Georgia for military police training, and was then sent to La Rochelle, France, where he served until 1963. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Yonker, Lauren Prins, Amanda Yonker, Alyssa Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-04-24 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9a4b882e154de6265b49d152fbe3babe.mp4 e96da53a94cf4f3473f3ecb25991e012 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ebb867bab9acb013d7d28729953ac7ab.pdf 916e994e2c9eddd29339b9dc84b48cfb PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam Hung Q Vu Total Time – (01:03:08) Background/Family Moves/Working on the American Military Base             He was born in Nam Dinh, Vietnam in 1952 (00:24) His father and mother were farmers – they owned their own land (00:46) o His father was in the military later in his life In 1954, when the French left, his family moved to the south because they were Catholic (01:38) o The Catholics could not get along with the Communists (01:45) It was very hard to move to the south because his family lived in the countryside o His father had to go and find work – he told the family that if he did not return in one week that they were to go to the city (02:27) o There was a large migration of Catholics and others that worked with the French that migrated south His family settled in Bien Hoa, Vietnam (03:50) o It was roughly 25km outside of Saigon, Vietnam At this point his father became a worker in a factory (04:10) o He worked in the sugar factory until 1960 o After 1960, his father joined the armed forces (04:36) He studied in Catholic school – it was a private education (04:48) o When he was in high school they learned in Vietnamese (05:27) o When they had to take another language, he took English and French The war became increasingly popular in the 1960’s (popular in terms of acknowledgement) (06:24) o They were near the Long Binh Military Base The Communists were traveling south His father was stationed near their home (07:13) He finished high school in 1970 (07:23) In 1967, when he was in high school, he worked in the American military base (07:57) o The Americans hired a lot of Vietnamese that wanted to help with supplies, etc. o The supplies would be used to build churches, schools, and other buildings (08:34) o A lot of the supplies from the Americans were meant to build up the civilian life o He worked in the mess hall on the military base (09:11) �  When he was working on the base, he was able to learn from the Americans o He learned the language, the customs, etc. (09:36)  He learned about Thanksgiving, presents, Christmas, and other customs After he graduated from high school he wanted to go to Saigon University of Law (10:12) o He did not want to be a lawyer but he wanted to study international law o He wanted to be a Vietnamese ambassador (10:30) o He attended for two years Enlistment/Basic Training/Training in the United States – (10:59)              In 1972, he joined the Vietnamese Air Force (11:03) o The Americans had previously been the source of all air support – when they pulled out, the Vietnamese Air Force had to take over o The goal of the Americans was to train Vietnamese pilots to take over once they left (11:41) He enlisted during the major Communist offensive [spring 1972] The soldiers had to qualify to become pilots (12:00) Many of the Vietnamese in the south saw the North Vietnamese as synonymous with Viet Cong (12:22) o To them, VC meant Vietnamese Communist He was sent to the Vietnamese Air Force Center for Basic Training (13:21) o He spent a couple of months there for training o He learned basic training skills (13:31) The soldiers studied English, and after a couple of months, they had to take a test (13:49) There were Vietnamese that were trained in the United States that taught the courses Once the soldiers passed the English test, they were sent to the United States for more training (15:08) o He went to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas (15:15) o At Lackland Air Force Base he was able to meet a lot of people from around the world that were studying English there as well o He was with an international program (16:09) He was learning specialized language that was useful for being a pilot (16:44) They studied six hours a day In the free time the soldiers could go and visit friends, visit the cities, or do anything else that they wanted (17:15) The move to the United States was not extremely difficult for him because he had previously studied the American culture and customs in his English courses (17:47) He remembers that on Sunday there would be a bus going from the church to the base o They would go and pray for nearly an hour and then have lunch (18:32) �             o They would then go and visit the Alamo, or go and do some other activity He was in the language training for nearly two months (19:09) He was then sent to train in Medina, Texas (19:20) o He was in an Officer Training School (19:26) At Medina he was training with other internationals He initially trained on the T 41 aircraft in South Texas (21:44) After about two or three months he was sent to Sheppard Air Force Base in Wichita Falls, Texas (22:17) At the time, his instructor was a military officer (22:23) Before the soldiers learned how to fly a jet, they had to take a survival course for roughly two months o They learned how to jam the parachutes, guide the parachutes, and how to parachute in general After the survival training, he is then taught how to fly jet aircraft (23:16) o He trained in T-37 (23:32) o The training for the T-37 was roughly nine months long He had to learn four different kinds of aspects to flying: contact navigation, night flying, formation, and instruments (24:08) As he was going through the training, there were others that were incapable of finishing and had to drop out of the program (24:56) o Some failed the English courses, some failed survival courses, some failed the T-41 or T-37 training as well There were roughly 20 in his class when they started – they finished with roughly 15 (26:23) After the T-37 training, he followed his schedule that he received when he came to the United States o He was supposed to learn and train on the T-38, but after President Nixon resigned, they were no longer able to train on it (27:05) o Because his training was cancelled, he was sent back to Vietnam (27:41) At the time, he did not know that they were being cut off from the program Pilot Training in Vietnam/Prisoner – (28:30)     When he arrived in Vietnam, he was sent to Phan Rang Air Base (28:43) o They were allowed to fly around with an Officer with higher rank so that they could gain experience (29:07) o He essentially received further training in Vietnam There were some aircraft in Phan Rang Air Base that would fly on combat missions (29:40) o Experienced pilots were the only ones that would fly on the combat missions because they did not want anything to happen to the aircraft He joined his squadron in late 1974 and early 1975 (30:02) The Vietnamese Air Force had problems of not having enough bombs, fuel, weapons, and other supplies (30:33) �               The North Vietnamese never used aircraft against them o They only used their Army and tanks (31:25) During the last months of the war, they were all paying attention to what was happening (31:35) His squad had to move from he middle to the south in [Long Xuyen], Vietnam They did not know all of what was going on in the politics but they knew that they were fighting to protect the country (32:00) When Saigon fell on April 29, he was in Long Xuyen (32:30) o On April 29, he got off the base and heard that the new leaders wanted the Americans to move out of the country in twenty-four hours  They knew that it was the end of the war (33:15) After April 30, he stayed in Saigon, Vietnam (33:29) o He did not want to return home in Bien Hoa because he was afraid that the Tet Offensive [or attacks by communists on supporters of the South Vietnamese government, as had occurred during Tet 1968]was still going on and that bad things would happen to him (33:40) o He told his brother to go to Saigon where he was to get him if nothing happens in Bien Hoa (34:14)  He stayed with a friend in Saigon and waited o A week later his brother went to Saigon and took him home (34:28) After being home for a month he was sent to a prison camp (35:08) His father was in the low ranks during this time – he was not taken to the prisoner camp He believed he was going to report in Bien Hoa for a short program but he was actually being sent off to a labor camp (36:24) There were many that were sent to the labor camp – included teachers, military men, and many other professionals The camp was like an old military camp (37:43) o The laborers were organized by rank o They were controlled by military men and not policemen (38:27) While he was in the camp, there was not enough food for the prisoners (39:00) o They were told that if they wanted the prisoners killed, it was easy o They said that they did not want to kill them like that (39:20) o The prisoners were sent to the field, working hard, without food Before Saigon fell, most of the people in the city were in good health, but after the city fell, there was not enough food to keep everyone healthy (39:40) The prisoners were never supplied with clothes – they had to wear whatever they had brought with them o They worked in the rain and sunshine – eight or nine hour days (40:15) They were later allowed to visit with their families o They knew that they did not have enough food or medicine for the prisoners (40:45)  That is why they allowed the families to send food and medicine (40:59) �     The work was farm work, jungle work, and simply dependent on what was needed The Vietnamese government called the camps re-education camps (42:10) o Their main purpose was to brainwash the prisoners and use free labor They were taught to believe that they were freeing the south from foreigners like the United States (42:48) o The Vietnamese government treated them like the enemy (43:11) o The prisoners were required to say and do certain things  They had to write about everything that had happened in their lives (43:37)  They did this so that the prisoners would feel guilty with the country (43:58)  They wanted the prisoners to think the Vietnamese government was a hero o The prisoners talked about all of these things in the secret (44:20)  They were able to understand each other  Sometimes they could speak, but they also used sign language (44:46) There were some prisoners that would report other prisoners talking or activities He had to stay in the prison camp for a little more than three years (45:02) Release from Prison/Escaping to the United States – (45:19)        When he was released, he went home with his parents The prisoners were released individually (45:40) When he got home and reported to his local police, they questioned him on why he went to the United States (46:42) o He told them that he went there for pilot training o They told him that he actually went there for CIA training (46:55) o Because they believed he was CIA, they made him report every month about what he was doing (47:40)  He had to report every month until 1990 o He never had to write that he had worked for the CIA, he was just told that he had (48:00) He did a lot of different general labor so that he could survive He had friends that owned small factories – he would go and help them with accounting (49:01) The people in his neighborhood were asked about him by the policemen (50:00) o After they were asked, the police left (50:19) o The local community was helpful and supportive of him He had a classmate that was a pilot as well – he found out that his classmate had left the country in 1975 (51:02) o He was able to meet his friend's sister o They eventually got married (51:25) o Her father has a very high rank in the military (51:28) �                    He spent ten years in a prison camp as well (51:36) They got married in 1980 o When they got married, his wife’s father was still in the prison (52:13) He tried to escape Vietnam by boat many times o He knew that he had a tie to the United States (52:36) o He knew the type of life that could be lived in the United States o He told one of his friends that if he could go to the United States with him, he could help with the transition (52:56)  They let him, but he could not go In one attempt, he and his wife were half a day away when they were caught by a patrol boat (53:14) o It was the only time that he was actually caught It was difficult to plan an escape from the country because there were so many policemen (54:07) o They would have to know who to bribe and how to use their money (54:21) American President Ronald Reagan had a program in 1989 with the Vietnamese Communists that allowed any Vietnamese individual who was imprisoned for three years to move to the United States (55:34) In 1990, he got an interview and came to the United States in June of 1990 (56:19) o He told the interviewer that they had a relative that lived in Grand Rapids, Michigan – his wife’s brother lived there o They were then sponsored to go to Grand Rapids, Michigan (56:55) When he arrived he only had twenty dollars in his pocket He received some help from the local diocese (57:39) o He also received some help from the welfare program He enrolled into the community college to study tool and die manufacturing (58:04) After two and a half years his wife came o She first worked in a restaurant (58:23) o She opened her own business two years later Once he graduated from college he got a job working with tool and die (58:40) He has two kids (58:49) o When they arrived, his children were in elementary school and did not know any English His children each graduated from Grand Valley State University in Allendale, Michigan (01:00:07) Both of his children are now chiropractors It took his children roughly one year to learn English (01:00:40) Two years later and his daughter was very proficient He worked with Vietnamese immigrants that could not speak English (01:01:14) He is able to relate with the Vietnamese that come to America He can not imagine what life would be like if his family was still in Vietnam (01:02:55) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VuH0901V Title A name given to the resource Vu, Hung Q (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Vu, Hung Q Description An account of the resource Hung Q Vu was born in Nam Dinh, Vietnam in 1952. In 1954 his family moved to Bien Hoa, Vietnam because they were Catholic and faced oppression from the Communists. He studied at the Saigon University of Law and eventually joined the Vietnamese Air Force in 1972. After passing an English test in Basic Training, Vu was sent to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas and Shepherd Air Force Base for further pilot training. Vu trained on the T-41 and T-37. He met back up with his squad at Phan Rang Air Base in Vietnam in late 1974. Vu was captured and sent to a labor camp. Eventually Vu and his wife were able, after many attempts, to escape to the United States under a program started by Ronald Reagan in 1989. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, Vietnamese Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-06-04 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8c4fba11b969e0539f664df2ff9877c1.mp4 6bcd34fede5ce1801db030e482d1d867 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/67382544e5f1853c78576412ed5598a4.pdf d39feccde683d4f62583c995641a6242 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam Hung Vu Total Time – (33:01) Background             He was born in Hanoi, Vietnam in 1952 (00:24) His father worked with the National Government of Vietnam and his mother had a small jewelry shop o The National Government of Vietnam was being managed by the French (00:42) After the Geneva Peace Accord in 1954, his family settled in Saigon, Vietnam His father worked for a planning office in Saigon (01:08) o He worked with the educational aspect of Vietnam (01:19) o He believes that his fathers job was a higher position with better pay He graduated from a French high school (02:12) o There were two different kinds of schools in Vietnam  There were the public schools for very smart kids (02:29)  There were private schools as well His father decided it was better to have his kids in private education than in the public system (03:22) o He was trying to get him the best education that he could Before 1968, he did not pay much attention to the war in Vietnam (04:04) o The war was not strong enough to worry about the war o His family would not talk about the war or politics at home (04:31) In general, the area he was living in did not have problems with the Viet Cong o The suburbs that were farther out had the problems (04:50) He noticed the Americans coming to the country o He saw convoys and quite a lot of civilians (05:13) o He gained the impression that the Vietnamese loved the Americans (05:35)  He had no idea if it was different outside of Saigon o He saw a lot of military aircraft going overhead When the Tet Offensive began in 1968, it did not effect him at all (06:17) o He lived in the 3rd District of Saigon When the offensive began, nothing seemed very different for him (07:02) There were some firefights around local airbases as well (07:18) o The offensive did not take place in all of Saigon, just in certain areas (07:25) �Enlistment/Training – (07:40)     He enlisted into the military in 1970 (07:48) o He was able to choose which branch of the military that he wanted to go into o It was his dream to join the Navy (08:08)  He did not want to join the Army because it was more dangerous for them He received electrician and electronic military training (08:35) The training program was six months long Before he received his technical training he had been in Basic Training (08:51) o In Basic Training, he learned how to survive, survive when boats sink, how to shoot, etc. o He was an Ordinary Seaman once he was done with training (09:15) Active Duty – (09:20)            After his training he was assigned to the 34th and 35th [Tien Giang] (09:25) o Their job was to carry a reinforced fishing boat  The boat was the size of about a semi-truck and a half (09:48)  It was roughly 10 feet wide as well o The boat was made of wood (10:09) He was operating in [Tien Giang] (10:22) He was operating in small lakes and other inland waterways (11:09) The area where he was stationed had heavy Viet Cong (11:26) He was there working on boats for roughly one year and a half (12:03) He would spend three days on boats and then two days on base o He worked to maintain the boats o They were diesel engine boats (12:37) o They sounded exactly like fishing boats The boats were used in military operations by patrolling an area (12:57) o They would stop and check identification of the boatmen (13:03) o They work to control the area He was never in a firefight of any kind He was told to knock on the boat every time a fishing boat was stopped (13:42) o You can tell if there is something in the boat from knocking on it Most of the boats that were stopped were fishing boats (14:01) o Most of the fishermen were very friendly and did not mind being stopped When he was on base he was in a small camp with about 150 soldiers (14:51) o The soldiers wives and children were there as well o They would make sure there were no civilians living near the base �        This ensured that no Viet Cong could live or hide among the villagers (15:15) o His base was never attacked with anything The Americans never went through where he was working After he was working in that district for about a year and a half, he moved back close to his hometown (16:13) o His work was very similar – he was working in the shipyard (16:20) o He worked with all types of boats o When boats would have troubles they would bring them in to be worked on He worked on boat maintenance for the rest of the war (16:59) As the Americans are on the way out, he did not notice any changes (17:29) o With his rank he was not involved with what was going on in the base o He knew what his job was and he did that (17:43) During the 1970’s, he was able to learn from the news that the war had heavy fighting In February and March of 1975, he began to realize that the Communists might actually come in and take over (18:45) o They lost a couple of the zones The Viet Cong and NVA did not have a naval presence (20:10) Leaving Vietnam/Life in America – (20:22)     He flew out of the country at the end of the war (20:28) o His sister was a stewardess and was able to get him and his younger brother out of the country o The rest of his family had to stay behind o His older brother was in jail for six and a half years (21:21) He flew out on a C-130 military transport (21:49) o He flew from Vietnam to Guam and then went to the Philippines for one month o After the Philippines he went to Fort Chaffee in Arkansas (22:13) When he was in Philippines he was handled with the American Red Cross because he had some English in his background o They would use him to interpret (22:45) o The Philippines had some facilities for them to stay in  In Guam, it was more like a refugee camp (23:06)  They were living in the open He stayed at Fort Chaffee, Arkansas for over two months (23:19) o He handled in the mess halls and worked alongside the American Red Cross o They tried to teach the Vietnamese on how to live in America (23:36)  There were handbooks, classes at night, movies, etc. o There were roughly 40-50,000 Vietnamese there  There were around 20-30 barracks where they would stay (24:23) �            Standale Christian Reformed Church in Standale, Michigan sponsored him to come to Michigan o He only knew that Michigan was cold and had a lot of snow (24:53) When he arrived he had a job at a nursing home o Some worked in the kitchen and some were told to be nurse's aides (25:27) He lived in an old apartment building behind the nursing home (26:01) He had no problem adopting a new type of life (26:23) o When he was in the Navy he did not work with the American Navy but he spent six months speaking English with the American Navy o Because of his previous French education, the European style of living resonated much more with him than that of Vietnam (27:03)  Learning French helped him learn English much easier After he worked for the hospital he went to work for a die casting company (27:48) o The company was in Sparta, Michigan o The company used a government program that allowed for any refugee to be educated on a skill they wanted to learn (28:10)  He chose to train on the keypunch (28:20) He currently works for the Xpedx Paper Company (28:29) o He works in the shipping and receiving He has a family and got married o He married his first wife in 1979 (28:59) o In 1996 he remarried a Vietnamese lady During the fall of Vietnam, many in the south were not allowed to go to school There are current problems because communists took over Catholic lands (30:13) He would only want to return to Vietnam if the government changed (30:58) He has contact with relatives from his mothers side of the family When he thinks back to his time in the Vietnamese Navy, he wishes that he could have done better (32:01) o He would have been more independent o If he could start over again, he would do everything more than 100% � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VuH0889V Title A name given to the resource Vu, Hung M (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Vu, Hung M Description An account of the resource Hung M Vu was born in Hanoi, Vietnam in 1952. His father worked in the National Government of Vietnam, managed by the French. After the Geneva Peace Accord in 1954, Vu's family moved to Saigon, Vietnam and settled there. He lived in Saigon when the Tet Offensive took place but it did not affect him. He joined the Navy in 1970 and received electronic and electrician military training. He initially worked on rivers on a reinforced fishing boat, stopping any potential threats. Vu eventually moved closer to home and worked in a shipyard fixing and working on boats. Because his sister was a stewardess, Vu was able to get a flight out of Vietnam in 1975. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, Vietnamese Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-04-02 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b1cbdf7bdfc284c52c8393cc24a2ef13.mp4 3c9bb73b6449d53f5767d986e66d20eb https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/acc485e75f3a9ee992de6e9723951609.pdf a774a856e361e2270f56e981ab974295 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Desert Storm Name of Interviewee: James Vonk Length of Interview: 00:28:10 Background:        Born September 3, 1965. He served as a corporal in the US Marine Corps. His mom served as wife and mother. His brother, Michael, served in the Army in the late 90’s. He was attending Calvin College, and in his 3rd year he decided to drop out and join the Marine Corps. He had always thought about doing it, and he thought that if he was going to, he needed to do it now, because back then, when he joined, the Marines wouldn’t take anyone over 27 years old. His dad would ask him why he would join the Marine Corps, and he didn’t know if it was to prove something, but he thought someone has to do it. So he signed up for the Marine Corps Infantry. Training (2:10)            He would spend three months at the Marine Corps recruit depot in San Diego. Then he spent another three months at Camp Pendleton, California for Infantry training. From there, he would go through many other training excursions, from learning how to jump out of a helicopter to learning how to run in snow shoes. He remembers boot camp the most. When you first realize what you had done, it is almost like being on a different planet. He had spare time on Sunday mornings, which they spend washing their clothes, prepping their gear, and other things. There was little or no free time for him in boot camp. Infantry training school was a lot like boot camp. You do a lot of running, you learn how to shoot different types of guns and it was nothing too different from what he experienced during his time at boot camp. ITS was like boot camp lite. He did get weekends off and he was allowed to make phone calls back home. He had to take the ASVAB when he entered the service. He thinks that there may be a required High School Diploma or GED, but he doesn’t know for sure. If you wanted to go into Army Intelligence or something like that, you may need an advance degree or special training. The physical took place at the MEPS Center in Detroit. It took almost a full day, herding you from one section to the other in groups of about 20-30. His unit was special operations qualified. This meant that his unit could do several different assaults, and were qualified for several different specialties. �     He never was Jump qualified, and he had wished he had got that. The biggest change, socially, was that there were almost no females around. Almost 95% of the jobs available to the Marines were closed to women, so it was a big change that he saw when he first entered the service. The food was not as bad as everyone says it is. C-rations are terrible, but the chow hall was ok, and if you got off the Marine Corps base and onto an Air Force base, the chow there was pretty good. You live in a squad bay, which is filled with bunks occupied by 30-40 other guys. This was not too difficult for him, but it was still new. Once he was done with training, he was stationed in Camp Pendleton, California. From there he would do some special training in Norway and such. But he would spend most of his time in Okinawa, Japan. Active Duty (7:50)              Desert Storm began while they were on Okinawa, and they prepared for deployment to Iraq. They would not make it to Iraq however, as the ground war only took 3 days or so. The rest was Air war. From there, he went down to the Philippines for a 2-3 month stay, and back to Okinawa for the rest of his duty and then he would go back stateside from there. That would take about a year. He would form some friendships while down there. Other than your wife and kids, there are not stronger bonds made. You live with these guys 24/7, you go through all the hardships together, and the bond gets really strong. There is one guy that he contacts the most, but has not contacted him in a couple of years now. He has a few other guys that he would talk to after the time they spent in service together. He traveled to Japan in a civilian aircraft. They crossed the International Date Line on December 24, and landed on December 26. So the joke they had was that they really did miss Christmas. While he was in Japan, he would stay in contact via mail. Phone contact was very expensive, so mail call was a big deal for him while he was serving. Things today are different, of course, with computers and such. He said there were a lot of times where you were not very hygienic. This is why they cut your hair very short. It helped to prevent lice; it kept enemies from pulling on it in battle too. He would carry baby wipes to keep the worst away. After about two weeks in the field, he says you would be pretty ripe and ready for a shower. He did get to meet civilians, but did not make any lasting relationships because of the language barrier. He and his buddies would go to town and eat Japanese food, but he thinks the people there did not care for them too much. He would also see some of the worst things, likes bars or prostitutes. During his off time, he and his buddies would try to get scuba diving in. �        They would go to the capital city or the Air Force base to watch baseball games. If the chow was good you would go back for seconds. They would also go to a PX, which was similar to a mall. While he was there, he would also have to take special classes to learn how to drive on the other side of the road. He would show his international driving license. There was never really too much time off to go on huge excursions, so you did what you could. There was also a bowling alley on the Air Force base. He would stay a year total between the Philippines and Okinawa. While in the Philippines, your tour of duty was only 3 months, so they got you in and out pretty quickly. Subic Bay was a home to a large Navy base. He would serve as guard to the Navy personnel stationed there. Camp Hanson, in Okinawa, housed probably no more than 750 Marines. He and the others would travel together a unit. Post Duty (16:15)                 After the war he came back to Grand Rapids and began working at a Spartan store warehouse at the time. He found out quickly that it was not what he wanted to do the rest of his life. So he went back to Davenport and finished his degree in International Business. He did not have any difficulty adjusting to life when he got back to the US. Funny enough, what he missed the most was driving. Though he would drive a little bit in Japan he did not drive often enough. It was nice seeing places that you were most familiar with, things that you never really notice until you come back. He was married before he went into the service, but it didn’t last after that. He would write to his Mom and Dad, because his Mom would worry constantly. He would always write to his wife, but other than that he never really wrote to anybody else. His father did not encourage nor discourage his son from joining the war. His biggest question was why the Marine Corps Infantry. He believes that there is a tremendous amount that people can get out of going into the service. Even if you hated every minute of it, it really opens your eyes to what is important to you. He would not discourage people from joining it. He would get his rank from the time in his service. It wasn’t that difficult. He would get one of his awards for going above and beyond what was expected of him. Though most of them were unit awards and not individual honors. He goes through different items that he has from his time in the service. Pictures, cards, certification, and a Marine Corps Handbook, though he doubts anyone has read the whole thing. He would try to pick up stuff wherever he went. He also has some old uniforms lying around from his time in service as well. The coolest thing he thinks he has is a flak jacket. It’s very heavy, but not bullet proof. It was supposed to protect you from some of the shrapnel from the explosions. It did stop � a handgun round. He had to wear it while training in boot camp in southern California. It was miserable. (26:15) He also has a gun that the Navy Seals use. He got it after he got out of the service. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VonkJ0997V Title A name given to the resource Vonk, James (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Vonk, James Description An account of the resource James Vonk of Grand Rapids, Michigan, left college in the late 1980s to enlist in the Marine Corps. He was sent to Okinawa, and was based there at the time of Desert Storm. His company was scheduled to go to Iraq, but the ground war ended so quickly that they did not have to go. Instead, they spent several months at Subic Bay in the Philippines, and then returned to Okinawa. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Schafer, Kailee (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Marine Corps Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-06-03 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2f277260ce2029913b6683b251423dcd.mp4 722dbdd14e37ff51d7cbbb304fc53837 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/87d406f6a4fd8d2e13ec914de5f14b4f.pdf dcaf8ce595f71d7579a05eaa19557c13 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Jerry Von Holt (1:50:47) (00:15) Background Information • • Jerry was born on May 16, 1930 in Quincy, Illinois He liked to play pranks when he was younger; he ran all over town and was very restless • Jerry dropped out of school his junior year because he was failing algebra and typing (16:50) Enlistment 1947 • • • Jerry thought he would be able to take some time off when he had quit going to school His father found out that he had dropped out and wanted him to start working Jerry helped is father work in his car service garage, but enlisted in the Navy shortly after at only 17 years old (22:30) Training • Jerry was sent to Saint Louis and then to Los Angeles • He had boot camp in San Diego along with a group of Marines • They also had to go to classes, which was nice because it kept them from marching all day long in the hot weather • After boot camp Jerry went to electrician school for 6 weeks • He could not finish the program because he had never been very good at math • They still allowed him to be an “electrician striker” (34:00) Draft Boat • Jerry boarded a draft boat as an “electrician striker” • They traveled around many islands and he spent a lot of time fishing (38:25) South Korea • Jerry then boarded a destroyer and headed into the Pacific • They arrived in Seoul • Jerry did a lot of shopping and took many pictures while in South Korea • He met a nice Canadian that showed him around • Actual combat started about a month after he had arrived (54:15) A Break From the Navy �• • Jerry had only signed into Navy for a short amount of time and had been discharged three days before any actual fighting began He had been looking for work, but was still too young to find a decent job; most places would not hire him until he was 21 (57:40) Back in the Navy • Jerry could not find a decent job so he signed back into the Navy for another 6 years • He became a seaman on a rescue ship • He never ran into any problems on the ship or encountered any actual fighting • He also boarded a destroyer and traveled many times near Korea for about 30 days at a time • He traveled back to Japan, and also the Philippines and Hong Kong (1:04:15) Japan • Jerry worked on shore duty in Japan from 1953-55 • He started working in crash boats and then worked as a fireman for 4 months • They often had fake fire drills at 3 in the morning • He had his own place off their base that only cost $15/month • Jerry stayed here often during his time off • They had lots of time off; usually working on for 2 days and then 2 days off (1:08:05) The end of His Time in the Pacific • Everyone on the ship back home was an alcoholic • Jerry had to stop drinking so much when he got back because alcohol cost about 8 times more in the US • He was discharged in San Diego • Shortly after being discharged, Jerry worked on a tug boat in Seattle � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VonHoltJ Title A name given to the resource Von Holt, Jerry (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Von Holt, Jerry Description An account of the resource Jerry Von Holt served in the US Navy from 1947 to 1956. He served on ships and at bases across the Pacific, including Korea and Japan. He served on destroyers that patrolled Korean waters, but did not see combat. He also received firefighting and rescue training. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-29 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/739ef4a09deea9d8cadbff726bee03f7.mp4 b72907707f330043255dca2c0a1ee7ce https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2a37ec41c47a00dccee77e536e27a71b.pdf 8625ab621c237948d9ae9bd4c5620b75 PDF Text Text Interview Notes Length (51:23) Donald Vogel Vietnam War Veteran United States Navy (00:20) Pre Enlistment. • Graduated from High School 1966 • Joined Naval Reserve right out of high school. (01:57) • Sent to San Francisco • When in San Francisco, assigned to Assault Craft Division 13, which worked on shallow amphibious assault boats. • These assault boats held four men and worked on coastlines and rivers throughout Vietnam. (02:40) Active Duty. • Arrived in Vietnam in October 1967. • Returned home in mid 1968. • When stateside, he was stationed in Coronado, California. • Worked as an engine mechanic on Naval boats. (03:45) Second Tour. • Sent for a second tour in Vietnam in September 1968. • Was in Vietnam through the beginning of 1969. (04:24) Living Conditions in Vietnam. • Traveled with his company for the entire tour, never stayed in one place. • He helped deliver troops, machinery and supplies. • Operated between Da Nang and the DMZ. • There were no sleeping quarters on the boat; instead they slept on the floor. • His ship was 80 ft. long. • At times the men were housed on the larger amphibious assault ships which had sleeping quarters, showers, and a hot meal. (07:51) Daily Activities • Mission was to supply troops, not a combat mission. • After breakfast, he would check all components of the boat to make sure it was working correctly. • The men would receive their orders and carry out that particular mission for the day. • The majority of missions were carried out calmly and peacefully. • 90% of the time was spent working with the Marine Corps. �(13:35) Description of the Boat. • Large open area in front where troops were held. • The back of the boat held the pilothouse flanked by two 50-caliber machine guns. (15:00) Duties aboard the boat. • He manned one of the machine guns next to the pilothouse and was also responsible for the maintenance of the ship. • He often stayed up late into the night working on the boat. (15:36) Injuries • Although they came under fire, no one in his crew was ever injured in Vietnam. • Out of the four boats that traveled together, there were only a couple serious injuries. (17:00) Difficulties about being in Vietnam • He had been married for three months when he left and missed his wife a great deal. • It also felt like his entire life was on hold while he was in Vietnam. • The death and destruction around him reminded him of his own mortality. • It was also difficult for him to comprehend that someone was out there and was trying to kill him as their sole mission. • Soldiers encountered evil, which he believes attributes to the soldiers returning home very different. (24:05) The shock of dealing with so many deaths. • He never got used to the amount of death he witnessed. • Watched three truckloads of bodies being loaded onto a plane for shipment home during his first weeks overseas. • He had to detach himself from the amount of death surrounding him and his company. • Was very close friends with a chaplain who was trained to help with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder who helped him deal with the morbidity of war when he returned home. (30:30) Communication. • His main communication method with his family was letter writing. • He wrote a letter to his wife every day, who also wrote him every day. • The mail system was very sporadic. • Only twice was he able to call his wife, both times from the Philippines, this took about 40 minutes for connection for only 20 minutes of talk time. • He is envious of the men in Iraq for having the ability to use the internet and telephone calls. • He also used reel-to-reel tape recordings to send messages to his wife. • He still has every letter sent during his time in Vietnam. (36:05) Most Vivid Memory. �• • The shock at the sheer amount of death he experienced when he first arrived in Vietnam. The sounds of helicopters and fireworks still trigger memories. (38:47) Political thoughts during Vietnam. • He was 18 when he joined and admits he was not very aware of politics. • Soldiers are not political, but obedient to those ranking above him. • He believes that the Vietnam War was a just cause. • While the military did some “dumb things” and lost the war, he feels the cause was just. (47:30) Comparisons between Vietnam and Iraq. • He thinks the battle compares politically. • However, the death toll is far less in Iraq than it was in Vietnam. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VogelD Title A name given to the resource Vogel, Donald (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Vogel, Donald Description An account of the resource Vogel served in the U. S. Navy both stateside and during two tours overseas during the Vietnam War. He joined the Navy immediately after high school to avoid being drafted. Vogel recalls his experiences during basic training, his time spent in Vietnam, and the technology used during the war. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Morgan (Interviewer) Forest Hills Eastern High School (Ada, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-03 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f318aec8b57112735175f759fa2e40d3.mp4 370f89c92958ce16f467f333843bced5 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/268f2a08e6c04dab2526feb2d0b64b95.pdf f95ced3568c6ae695fd5695940d9b6a4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Jan Viveen (57:49) Background Information (00:35)       Born in 1918 in a small village in North Brabant, Netherlands. (00:40) His father worked selling fish that were shipped in and sold in the market. (1:15) Because there was no refrigeration, all the fish had to be sold the day they were received. (2:37) He was educated through high school in the Netherlands. He graduated in approx. 1935. (3:00) After graduating jobs were scarce. Jan took a job in a hardware store where he worked for 1 year before he joined the army. (3:30) He was drafted in 1936. This was normal, most young men were drafted. (4:36) Basic Training (4:57)        The men were given weapons training. (5:00) The men had to march approx. 35 miles. There was a lot of physical training. (5:33) The Dutch army placed high emphasis on military discipline. (5:59) Training typically lasted 1.5 years. (6:27) Before the Germans invaded the Netherlands in 1940, Jan paid much attention to the events occurring in Europe. (7:55) Jan expected a German invasion. (8:35) Most Dutch people were afraid of and disliked the Germans. (9:06) German Invasion of the Netherlands (May 10th 1940) (9:50)      Jan was on the border behind the Erft river manning an anti-tank gun. (9:57) Jan did not defend a bridge crossing, only the river. (10:52) The anti tank gun was a 47 mm. (11:27) The men started fighting at noon. By 5 AM German planes flew overhead and Netherlands was invaded. For Jan the war was over. (12:00) At this point Jan’s unit was forced to surrender. (12:26) Life as a POW (12:30)        The men were shipped by train into Germany. The train trip to the German/Polish border took 4 days. (12:35) On the 4 day train trip the men did not receive food or water. Some people died. (13:25) Jan was then placed in a conventional POW camp. (13:55) Jan was placed with other prisoners from France and Belgium but was kept separate from the Polish. (14:11) He was in the prison camp for 4 months. (14:33) The men were treated fairly well if they didn’t act out. Food was scarce. (14:44) One slice of bread at 6 AM and one bowl of soup at 6 PM. (15:03) �      The men could not take baths or showers. (15:55) Jan personally didn’t know of any prisoners who died of disease. (16:09) Jan mostly stayed with people from his native country. (16:15) The prison guards were average soldiers. (16:51) The men slept on boards without mattresses. (17:18) Jan signed a form to be released that said the men would not take any actions against the Germans. Jan was released after 4 months in the camp. (17:48) Service after Imprisonment (18:10)     He returned home by train on open freight cars. (18:14) When he arrived back in the Netherlands he and his fellow soldiers were met with much appreciation. (18:58) Jan stayed in the Army and was transferred to The Hague, Netherlands.(20:22) Here he would occasionally march. However he had little to do while stationed there. He did that for approx 1 month before he was dismissed out of the army in late 1940. (20:46) Life after Military Service (21:20)     After his discharge he ventured back home. (21:26) Jan acquired a job on a railroad by coal mines in the southern part of the Netherlands. Here he regulated the filling and emptying of box cars. (22:00) He worked with Dutch civilians and never saw German officers. He had the job until the end of the war in 1945. (22:48) He had this job for approx 12 years. (23:07) Life under Nazi Occupation (23:15)             There was very little relationship or interaction between the Dutch and the Germans until 1942. At this time supplies began to run short for the Dutch civilians. (23:27) He was married in 1942 during the occupation. (24:07) The civilians got food using coupons. The coupons were exchanged for the specific types of food indicated on the coupons. (24:38) Food was scarcer in the big city. (25:20) He was aware of resistance in the Netherlands. (26:00) Jan assisted shot down Allied airmen by providing them with places to stay and cover and aid in their return back to Allied territory. (26:41) Resistance members were regularly caught. They were never heard of after the Germens seized them. (27:56) The civilians were unable to have radios. They still hid them and listened at night. This is how they were informed. (28:30) In 1944 Jan’s house was destroyed after a bombing raid. He then walked to his parents' home (29:40) The bombers were targeting bridges. It took 12 tries to destroy the bridges. (30:18) Sittard in South Limburg was seized by Allied forces 20 minutes after the allied bombing. (31:20) In the spring of 1945 is when Jan’s city was liberated. (32:17) �  The mine and the railroads never shut down during military conflict. All of the coal mined went to Germany. (32:53) The winter of 1944/1945 was very difficult with recourses, such as food, running low. (33:30) Jan’s Work in Germany (34:02)           In the spring of 1945, the Dutch were told that they would be transferred to work in Germany. After no one showed up, 13 Dutch men were captured and killed. Once again the call went out for workers. This time 4,000 Dutch civilians marched to Germany for work transfer. (34:04) They marched 30 miles into Germany. A lot of people died on the march. (35:07) After the march, the men were taken by train to a labor camp in Germany. (35:18) Jan and his brother were forced to work as army guards until the Americans liberated the camp. (36:00) There were some people helping the Germans while they occupied Germany. (37:43) Jan’s wife stayed back in the Netherlands while Jan and the men were transferred for work. (39:34) The women were also sent to another location. Jan’s wife and sisters were allowed to say in the Netherlands because her brother was the head of the fire department. (40:11) More food was given to Jan in the labor camp than when he was a prisoner. The food was still low. (41:11) After Americans liberated the town, immediately Jan and his brother in law traveled home. The trip took 4 days. (41:53) Other men had a motorcycle. To travel. This motorcycle however, was confiscated by allied forces. (43:30) Life after the War (43:55)     After the war there were still fuel and food shortages. (44:00) Jan immediately took back his job at the railroad. (44:15) Housing was in short supply due to the amount that was destroyed by bombing runs. (44:43) It took several years before everything was restored by normal. (45:00) Move to the U.S. (45:23)      The U.S. offered to move Jan to the U.S. because he was bombed out during the war and survived he was offered an opportunity to move to the U.S. in December of 1956. (45:30) Jan was fluent in English before moving to the U.S. (46:31) Because the committee that offered him to travel to the U.S. was in Western Michigan, Jan immediately moved to Grand Rapids Michigan upon his arrival. (46:45) Jan began work in a factory making furniture for 4 years. (47:24) Later Jan worked in a print shop for 22 years. After this he retired. (47:52) Final Thoughts on Service and War (48:27)    The civilians were always afraid of being killed or harmed by the Germans. (48:58) He recalls the disappearance of the Jews and the yellow star badges. (49:22) Jan had a radio which he hid somewhere in the attic. (50:22) �    Near the end of the occupation, German soldiers came into his parent’s house to sleep. His father told them to leave after coming home and finding them and surprisingly they did. (51:28) He didn’t travel seeing to many other travelers when he and his brother in law traveled back to the Netherlands. (53:11) The area was completely bombed out after the war. (55:46) The bombing continued up until the Allies liberated the city. (56:51) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ViveenJ0829V Title A name given to the resource Viveen, Jan (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Viveen, Jan Description An account of the resource Jan Viveen, born in 1918 in a small village in North Brabant in the Netherlands. After completing high school in 1936, he was drafted into the Dutch Army in 1936. At the time of the German invasion in 1940, he was manning an antitank gun on the banks of the Erft River, and stayed there until his unit was ordered to surrender. He spent about four months in a POW camp before being allowed to return home. After that, he worked in a rail yard and aided downed Allied airmen. In the spring of 1945, he was sent to a labor camp in Germany, and remained there until the liberation. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-09-07 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/24e5b1f819eccef0d39d40e9983e72ad.m4v d79ff38001215e523b797dafa9fbf841 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/90f9b98c23cf460e00831078a21f27ba.pdf 5bd2520e141ccb62220ec8fb2ed63919 PDF Text Text Interview Notes Interview Length (42:55) Ross Vincent US Army Air Corps World War II Pre-Enlistment Born in Kendallville, Indiana on December 20th, 1924 (0:20) Mother was a teacher and his father was a mechanic (0:40) Father lost his job during the Depression, income came solely from his mother (1:25) Grew up in Hillsdale, Michigan (2:10) Heard about Pearl Harbor on the radio on Sunday morning (2:40) Was drafted in 1943, just out of high school (3:30) Training Went to Fort Custer in Battle Creek (4:30) Was supposed to go to Europe as an MP, but passed the Air Corps exam so he was sent to Texas for training (5:10) First went to San Antonio (5:30) Sent him to Toledo, OH for his CTD (College Training Detachment) (6:10) Civilians with Piper Cubs gave them 6 hours of flight training (6:40) Took all the book education necessary, passed it and went back to Texas (7:10) Spent most of his time studying and working in Ohio (7:35) Lights went out by 9pm, but they had a flashlight to read and study by (8:10) In Texas, he went through a semi-training in the form of marching until he was assigned to Hondo, a navigation school (9:10) Was assigned as a B-24 navigator after Hondo, and was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant (9:25) Opted out of pilot training because he liked riding in planes, not flying them (10:15) As a navigator, had to learn how to use a sextant, drift meters and radar towards the end of the war (10:35) Training lasted for a year and a half, until 1945 (12:15) Then sent to the Pacific (12:30) After they became a crew, they were sent to Walla Walla, Washington, to get the pilot and gunners (12:45) Practiced flying together (13:20) After that, they were sent to San Francisco and flew out to Hawaii (13:30) Service overseas Replaced a crew that went down, but was not the main reason they were assigned to the unit (14:20) Was trained to bomb Japan, and was told to expect 50% casualties (15:20) From Hawaii, the crew took a ship to the island of Morotai (16:15) �Was in a convoy, and had several submarine scares (16:45) Primitive facilities on Morotai, but very well put together (18:00) Airbase was right on the edge of the jungle (18:20) Had an excellent mess hall and mechanics (18:30) Much of the air crew would help the mechanics out during down times (18:50) Wrote letters, and had to get accustomed to the climate during down times, as well (19:30) Living arrangements were on stilts because of the animals and snakes (19:50) Still had Japanese fighters on the island while he was there (21:45) Figured there were still several hundred soldiers on the island while they were there (22:30) Was advised to stay out of the jungle (22:45) Flew 3 combat missions while on Morotai (23:20) First one was bombing the oil fields in Borneo (23:30) Would send one squadron at a time during these raids (23:50) Would also fly on patrol to locate Japanese ships (24:15) Flew 8-10 patrol missions while on Morotai (24:30) Found several enemy ships (25:00) Never encountered Japanese aircraft or anti-aircraft fire while on missions (27:15) Moved to Clark Field, located in the Philippines (28:00) Had nice barracks, good facilities (28:15) Was assigned more ground duties instead of flying (28:30) Was an I&E officer (28:45) Kept people busy doing things they enjoyed (29:00) Set up a photography unit on base so pictures could be developed (29:40) Had many Filipinos under his command (30:05) Philippine people were very appreciative of the American presence in the Philippines (31:00) Left the Philippines in August of 1946 (32:40) Went to Manila during his stay, saw it in very good shape (33:00) Big buildings downtown blown up, but the rest of the city was fine (33:20) Attended class in Manila (33:50) Was impressed by the fact that the Filipinos celebrate when people die, but not when they are born (35:00) Was ready to go home before he got his orders (36:00) Post-Service Was discharged at Fort Sheridan, Illinois (36:15) Supposed to be there for 3 days, but was asked to stay in the Army Air Corps (36:45) Ended up staying in Fort Sheridan for 6 days, and signed up for Active Reserve in order to leave the Air Corps (37:00) Was promoted to Lieutenant Colonel, and was assigned to sell the new Air Force Academy (39:10) Was assigned an area in Michigan, and looked at the grades of top students to recruit them (39:40) Received no compensation for that, and spent a lot of money on gas (40:10) Was originally a tool and die maker during the day, but went into banking eventually (40:15) Feels like the military fine-tuned him as an individual (41:20) �Air Corps gave statements saying one had taken so many classes, and he took enough finance classes (42:20) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VincentR Title A name given to the resource Vincent, Ross (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Vincent, Ross Description An account of the resource Ross Vincent was drafted into the Army during World War II. Initially assigned as an MP, Ross took the Air Corps exam, and was sent to Army Air Corps training, eventually becoming a navigator in the Pacific, specifically based off the island of Morotai. After several months, his crew was assigned to Clark Field, in the Philippines, where he became an Information and Education officer. Ross was discharged in 1946, but stayed in the Active Reserves. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-09-16 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a0e21b46bfc46fc1777bb12c12268bf4.mp4 ab2a85c0fc26ed88a2adec684404ec96 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8809efaa112e8f002dd985ba6d3c5fcd.pdf 339897c07d5178ab03de1d1e449d443b PDF Text Text GVSU Veteran’s History Project Korean War Norman Vermerris Total Time: 27:54               (00:12) Birthday is February 22nd, 1931 (00:27) Worked in the Air Force; highest rank was a Staff Sergeant (00:43) Enlisted in Grand Rapids, Michigan with seven of his friends o They decided to join the Air Force (1:04) Korean War started in June of 1953 [1950] o Instead of being drafted into the Army, he and his friends wanted to join the Air Force o October or November when they enlisted o Physicals were in Lansing (1:44) January 7th, 1951 when they went into the service o Wet by train to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas (2:15) Most of the guys that were with him were from Michigan, but one was from Texas (2:27) After Basic Training, Mr. Vermerris was sent to Biloxi, Mississippi to go to Radio School o Afterwards, they had to choose between Airborne, Ground Radio, or be an instructor o He ended up in the Airborne, was pleased with this (3:07) Sent to an Air Force Base in Tacoma, Washington o There was a C-124 Operation as well as a school for pilots and co-pilots o Flew over the Pacific and the Atlantic o They flew to most of the islands in the Pacific (5:10) They also flew over to the East Coast; made shuttles from Maine into Greenland, as well as Iceland (5:54) They helped move B-29 outfit from England to the United States o Strategic Air Force [Command] at the time; England also had cargo planes (6:52) They also flew to Alaska (7:00) Remembers flying from Greenland to the Washington Air Force Base – McCord (7:36) Also flew into Japan with cargo (7:47) Eventually in Tacoma they moved his outfit to Florida o After this was when he went overseas and was stationed in Japan o Flew from Japan to Korea o Was on a Troop Carrier; 6th Squadron Combat Cargo �               (9:40) Flew over food, ammunition, etc. (9:49) Originally was going to be a part of the combat crew for a year, but then a truce was signed in 1953 (10:18) Later, in the 315 group, there was a C-46 that was going to be flown back to the US o Mr. Vermerris was sent to Brady Air Force Base in the southern islands of Japan o Was going to put in extra tanks in the planes so they could go to the US o Eventually decided against this, so Mr. Vermerris couldn’t be rotated back to the US o Stayed until 1954 (12:15) Often flew from Pusan to places in Japan as well (13:03) Brady Air Force Base was on the coast of Japan, 7 feet above sea level (13:24) When he was still in a Japanese city, there was a Korea pilot who flew a plane into the base; deflected from North Korea; was given a large sum of money o He was also supposed to go to the United States o Airplane was flown to Okinawa o They later picked up the airplane o Eventually flew it to Dayton, Ohio (17:47) Once Mr. Vermerris was in Patterson Field, he hitchhiked home (20:18) While he was in school training, he also learned how to navigate (21:00) Mentioned that he used to meet one of the guys he signed up for the Air Force with o This friend was a photographer o Met most of the guys he signed up with in various places during the service (22:11) Was in the service from January of 1951 until December of 1954 (23:17) Remembers bringing POW’s from Korea into Japan (23:35) Mr. Vermerris worked mostly in supplies (23:44) He also went to Indochina and supplied the French with things o Also flew into the northern capitol of Vietnam (26:55) Remembers snow-steps in Greenland (27:37) Was in Japan when the [Korean] war officially ended � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VermerrisN0890V Title A name given to the resource Vermerris, Norman (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Vermerris, Norman Description An account of the resource Mr. Vermerris is from Michigan and was born on February 22nd, 1931. In 1951, he and some friends decided to join the Air Force instead of waiting to get drafted for Korea. He received his training at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas, and then to Biloxi, Mississippi to learn how to use a radio. He chose to be in the Airborne. His job in the service consisted of supplying troops in Japan, Korea, and he even traveled to Greenland and Iceland. He was in the Air Force for three years. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Otten, Tim (Interviewer) Wassenaar, Austin (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-02-17 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a5b2a2171a4d0527f56a7f5e38f2004b.mp4 216bcf791808b3451e1e740eb5e81460 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/82e7d22ebea4632b929d14e072980f94.pdf c5f1ffd0d48a739c8a19017cd77a706d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Oral history interview transcript Erwin Veneklase Born: February 24,1920 WWII Veteran United States Army, 1939 to 1943 2nd Battalion, 126th Infantry Regiment, 32nd (Red Arrow) Division Transcribed: by Joan Raymer, May 29, 2007 Everyone Calls me Irv, so feel free to. Interviewer: “To begin, I want to know what your experience was in Grand Rapids before the war.” Before the war, I had a couple of jobs. I worked in the furniture factory and the idea of going into the service was pretty good because the money looked larger so going into the service would up the alley, so I went in. 1:50 Interviewer: “What would you say the atmosphere of Grand Rapids was before the war?” Before the war, Grand Rapids was a very knit community. You had sections of Grand Rapids that were Polish you were in one section. Lithuanians or Dutch it was pretty well segregated like that. Other than that, things were great. Interviewer: “So when the government called up troops what made you join?” I was in when they called us up. Why I joined? Just like any other young guys, I didn’t want to have my mother and dad tell me when to get in etc. I learned the hard way. I went into the service and I had some guy tell me when to get up and when to go to bed. 3:08 Interviewer: “What did your family think about your joining the military?” They didn’t have any feelings what so ever. I just went in and went down to Louisiana with the rest of them. It was just another experience, that’s all. Interviewer: “When you joined the 32nd, did you have any idea what the history of it was?” No, I had no idea. All I know is we met down there nights at Michigan Street at the old Armory and spend 2 hours down there and get paid for it. Interviewer: “What did you do in those 2 hours?” Oh, they would lecture or they would read books. Just kind of goof off for 2 hours really. Interviewer: “How did you feel when you found out there was a war happening or there was a war coming?” 1 �Do you want to rephrase that? 4:38 Interviewer: “How did you feel personally that there was a war and you are going to be called into service or going to fight?” See we were down in Louisiana when they hit the harbor, so we had already been in better than a year, so we were more or less expecting something. We were going in October and we were supposed to be released in October, but they didn’t and down there it was “over the hill in October”. Then they hit the harbor and after the harbor you expect anything and everything. They got us out to Frisco as best they could. 5:45 Interviewer: “So when Pearl Harbor was bombed, what were your first thoughts?” Go over there and kick the sh-- out of them. I mean go over there and do our job. Sorry, my language isn’t the best. Interviewer: “So explain please your daily routine in Australia, I mean in the boot camp in Louisiana.” Get up in the morning, make up your bunk, go through the line, get something to eat, go through the line again to get a jelly and peanut butter sandwich, get together and go out to the “boondocks”. There were a lot of swamps. 7:00 Interviewer: “What did you think about the peacetime maneuver, the fake army and the battle they had?” Well it’s just one of those things. Your following the lead that’s all, your part of the unit and you do what they tell you to do. Interviewer: “Do you feel that it helped you later on, that it helped you training?” Now that I’m older and think back, yes because first of all you got to know the guys you’re with and they become like family and secondly, you learn to take orders and follow orders. I guess that’s about it. 8:11 Interviewer: “Was that hard, learning how to take orders, or did that just come natural being in the military?” All I can tell you is, if you go into the service and they tell you to do something, you had better do it. Interviewer: “What was your first reaction when they told you that you were going to head to Ireland, which is where I believe your division was first heading, but they changed course and headed to the South Pacific?” Well, like I say, you wonder who is directing the show. “Lets get the show on the road and on the right track”. 9:00 You know this war is going on so why go through all the motions and then end up in Frisco to get out into the Pacific, but orders are orders and they aught to know what they are doing. Interviewer: “Did that upset your mindset at all? Your expecting to go into Europe and fight the Germans and it got changed.” No, it didn’t for me because I knew we were going over to do a job, but didn’t know where. After we got on the boat we realized we were going. 2 �Interviewer: “How was your first travel across the Pacific? I’m assuming it is your first time across the ocean. What was you experience like?” Going out of the harbor, was like riding an elevator and I was on the back deck and this was a luxury liner and it was just up and down. I don’t think there were too many guys that weren’t sick. It was a rough night, but hey, you get through it. Interviewer: “Did they pack you on there pretty good?” Well, they didn’t leave too many spots open, I’ll say that. Interviewer: “Did you have any particular experience with the King Neptune Ceremony going across the equator?” Not really. I can’t say I did, no. Interviewer: “What was you first impression of Australia? You came off the boat and what was the first thing that struck you?” They are very, very pleasant people and I always thought I would like to go back, but of course I never did. I never had the money to go back, but they are great people. 11:32 They had the highest respect for the U.S. In fact, at that time they were part of England and what they thought of England wasn’t to put in the books. Interviewer: “Did you feel like you were acting like a savior to the Australians?” No, they accepted us as part of them. They were very, very cordial. We couldn’t ask for better. The Australians had already sacrificed a lot, which we found out after being there. I was making more money in the service than a guy working in an ammo factory seven days a week. Back then, they had to pay such a large amount of money from their wages to England and of course since then it has changed. 12:46 They are on their own, but back then, that’s the way it was. Interviewer: “Did your relationship with the Australians change after you were in combat with them?” My relationship with the Australians, in combat, was nothing but the best. In fact, I probably learned more from the Australians about actual combat than the army ever taught me. I’ll never forget, we got into New Guinea and I was assigned to be behind the natives, the “Gooks”, the carriers and they gave me a Thompson and we had the big 50gallon drum and he said, “yank, why don’t you put a sign on your head?” He said, “It’s short burst and its rattle, rattle. It’s probably one of the first, the most important things I ever learned from them, the Australians. 14:13 They were tremendous fighters. Interviewer: “ Did you feel you had to work your way up to what they became? Did you look up to them as a roll model?” When I went on patrol under one of their leaders, yes. After we got up over the hump, up over the mountain, yes. It was very good. Their Sergeant was like our Captains and it was very, very, I mean he knew his job. If you ask, I will tell you later on and explain what I meant by that remark. After you lose a lot of guys, my job was changed so I was, from watching the natives carrying, after all your stuff runs out, plus the fact, the natives 3 �are only going to go so far, they’re not going into the real combat zone. 15:40 That’s when I was assigned to the headquarters and I had communications experience so Interviewer: “What was involved in being part of the Headquarter Company?” Making sure if we could possibly run lines to the forward lines of the lines company back so the battalion commander could have communications with the front lines. 16:25 It wasn’t always possible, but we did as much as we could. There again, I mean you guys are probably thinking about high frequency radios and that, we didn’t have them. While we were going up over the hump a plane come over and pushed it out the door and that was it. Do you have any idea how they found us? I’ll tell ya, we put a white panel on the ground and that’s what signaled where we were. Obviously it took the Japs about ten days until they realized the same signal. That was about the end of the natives. They got out of there. 17:30 Interviewer: “Now before you said that you learned a lot from the Australians. How did you feel about your overall training that the military gave you?” Like you said, you got a job to do and they tell you what to do and you do it. That’s about the way I can explain it. Obviously if you get into close combat, then it’s head to head. Sure you’re told to protect a certain portion, but it’s head to head. There again you got to remember that the Japanese were just like the people in Iraq right now, they sacrificed themselves. It was an honor for them to die for the country, so we had to be watching out for that. The Australians taught me that you don’t take prisoners because there is no place to keep them and if you did you’d have to feed them and we were getting hungry anyway. 19:02 That’s why these people right now are saying about the atrocities, well, they don’t know what war is like because you r whole feeling, I was brought up and raised Catholic and you don’t kill, but hey, when the first one whistles by your ear, the second one you don’t take a chance. 19:39 I mean this is the way it goes. In a split second, your whole instinct changes so you become a member of the group. The guys in the unit are like brothers. They fight for each other. Interviewer: “How important was that brotherhood?” Extremely important, because when one went down, you tried to get them back so they could be taken care of. The medics, they were with us, they were walking with us. The army is supposed to have the Red Cross, the Australian, you don’t do it, you don’t advertise what you are because you’re the first one their going to get. 21:12 Interviewer: “How did new recruits take to them? Did it take a while before you finally trusted them and before you considered them equals?” New recruits, you had to have enough members to be a combat unit, so when they draft, they took the draftees and put them in there. They had very little training really, so a lot of them, their experiences had to be the hard way. 22:03 Interviewer: “Now Mr. Veneklase, I want to go back a little bit and I want to understand what was your very first impression when you landed on Buna, landed on New Guinea?” 4 �It is the most useless feeling because you are on the landing craft and they drop that gate and you’re in water chest high, you have the gun over your head and your dead meat if somebody’s there because they have your chest and head to shoot at. 22:54 It was “get out of that water and take cover”. This is what happened. It’s an eerie feeling to be the target and not be able to shoot back. Interviewer: “Did you understand what your mission was when you landed or were you clueless as to what you were supposed to do?” If you study far enough, you find out the communications weren’t that great. Just like today, you got the problems in Washington and we had it the same way, the left hand didn’t know what the right hand was going to do. For us, we weren’t told what we were going to do or how or why. All we knew was to follow orders and the orders were to hit the trail and go up over the hump. 24:07 We were supposed to protect one side of Australia, so we had already been there and that’s what we did. Interviewer: “What was your most striking experience crossing the hump?” Striking experience, I guess being bombed and strafed. Like I said, the Japanese took that white sign and used it to their advantage and they did a pretty good job. Interviewer: “What was it like living day and night with an enemy so close and being bombed nightly?” They didn’t bomb during the night. They would bomb and strafe during the day. It was just take cover and hope and pray for the best. At night, well you don’t sleep. You rest, but you don’t sleep, because you’re always waiting to hear some noise or some movement because in the jungle there, when you take a position in the dark, you don’t move because one of your own guys could shoot you. 25:59 It’s just one of those things, you rest, but you don’t sleep, you don’t fight the mosquitoes and that. By that time you get so used to being bit by mosquitoes and things, so what. Sure you try to get comfortable, but it was impossible because you walk through the rivers and your boots are wet. You can’t take you boots off so about the only time they came off is when they rotted off. 26:46 There again, the supplies wasn’t there. Interviewer: “So what does it mean to sleep with one eye open?” Explain that if you can. Well, you get rest, but you can’t sleep. In other words your body rests, but you don’t get any sleep because of the fact that you know the enemy is out there and any movement is your just waiting to defend yourself. Interviewer: “What was the weather like?” Hot, rainy, we went through rain forests. You could almost set your watch by it. Rain, but there again you dry out. I remember that they dropped supplies to us because the guys going through, some of their pants were ripped etc. and the first drop they gave us was blue jeans. 28:39 Interviewer: “What did it feel like in the jungle? How did the jungle feel and smell?” 5 �After being down in Louisiana you got used to that kind of a smell. That kind of smell is a moldy type smell and I guess we got used to it in Louisiana. Interviewer: “What type of diseases and illness was there that you and everybody experienced in the South Pacific?” I can’t speak about everybody; I can only speak about myself. Malaria and dingy fever, jungle rot, now that I think about it, I must have laid about 5 days before being found. I picked up a worm that gives the natives big puffed bellies; well I picked up one of those worms. Nervousness, I still refuse to watch a war movie. 30:25 Taps still gives me chills. Interviewer: “You mentioned that you laid 5 days.” I had to and the reason I say that is because we cut the cable between Buna village and Buna Mission and Sergeant Botcher, who is trying to get his citizenship back, and by that time “stuttering Smith” was our battalion commander and if you would talk to him like you and I are talking now, he would stutter something fierce, but when he got mad, he didn’t stutter. You knew what he meant. I don’t know, I guess I can’t say too much. In my opinion, Botcher was the guy that did more for the 32nd division in New Guinea than any of the officers ever did because after that night he gave the orders and Botcher said “sir with your permission I’ll take my squad out on the beach. Were going to have a counter attack”, because he had gone through the war in Spain and this is where he got the experience. He was dead right. He wasn’t promoted from a Sergeant to a Captain I believe, but he deserved that plus. He was killed later on from what I understand. Interviewer: “What did it take to be a good leader in the situations you were in?” 33:14 To be a good leader? To have as much knowledge of the situation as possible and have a lot of “be dumb and go after em”. Like I said, before we captured Buna village and Buna Mission, I was sent on patrol with this Australian and I was one of the patrols and made a sharp right on the trail and he picked up a stick and threw it and they had machine guns right around the corner and had we tried to go around there we would have all been wiped out. I didn’t realize there was that much brass up there, Eicherberger came up there and he asked this Australian, “what’s the matter” and or course the Australian’s click there heels and throw the highball and he said “twin machine guns right around the bend sir”. Eicherberger said, “Get around there and wipe them out” and the Australian clicked his heels, threw another highball and said ‘yes sir, were right behind ya”. Eicherberger never said word one; he just turned and got out of there. 34:53 You asked me what I thought about the Australians, well, that’s what. Interviewer: “ What was your mind set of the Japanese before you went into combat?” They were just another person, but once you get into combat they’re an enemy and it’s either you or them and you make sure it’s them and not you. Like I said, they tied themselves in trees, snipers, in the jungle you try to move forward in a single line and they just picked out the guy they wanted and “bam” and they’d have him. Obviously they just gave their position away, so they just get hit and dangle like a tire from a tree. Just dangle. Sure they screamed and sure, if they had a squad they’d try to come forward with their hands up to try to surrender. You don’t take the enemy; I mean you can’t take 6 �a prisoner. This is what the Australians told me,” You let them go by and then you hit them in the back of the head with the but of a gun and then cut their throat, but be sure you cut it deep enough so they can’t scream”. 37:03 If it was today, they would say it’s atrocities. That’s part of combat, and never, never be taken a prisoner because the Japs were tremendous on torture before they killed you. They would try to get as much information as they could. Interviewer: “ Mr. Veneklase, what was your reaction when you saw the Japanese for the first time?” First time? The first Japanese I saw was, we landed at, it was at Townsby or something like that. We tried to stay away from Port Moresby because it was the base of the attack unit. 38:22 They tried to get us to skirt it on our way so we could support the Australians on their right hand side. The first Japanese I saw was there and they were, I’d rather not say what they were doing, but they had been down there and the Australians had them. 38:57 Interviewer: “What was your first experience with the Japanese in combat?” First experience, real experience is when Neal Tambor, who was from the north end, the two of us were supposed to be pulling up, making sure the natives didn’t run off with the supplies and to this day I can’t tell you how or why the natives could sense, they could sense a Japanese plane long before we could and when they started to run, you took cover. 39:58 Well, Neal and I were standing there and he dove one way and I dove the other and we found part of his foot. So it must have landed right between his legs. I took a little of the shrapnel and that was about the first real bad experience I had in combat. 40:25 To see somebody, just like you and I are sitting here talking and “pst “ he’s gone that’s all. He was from the north end and I was from the north end and we probably lived a mile apart, went to the same school. There’s a fine line between love and hate and about that time is when the line changes from love to hate. From then on it’s “get everyone of them people you can”. 41:29 Interviewer: “If you had to say, what was your greatest fear when you were out in the jungle?” “Was it the Japs themselves?” That and going upstairs to have the good lord pass judgment I guess. That was the biggest fear. You don’t think of, I guess, fear, you got a job to do and you find one and you hit em. You get em, that’s all. I remember we got closer to the village in Mission and they got set up a couple of cocoanut trees and dug a bunker behind it. Cocoanut trees, you could shoot a canon at them and I don’t think it would penetrate, anyway, this guy volunteered, we would give them all the fire we could and he was going to go up there an drop a couple of grenades, at least one grenade behind them and he did, we gave him all the fire power to keep their heads down. They just had enough room between the trees to shoot from. He went up, pulled the pin, threw it in the bunker and they picked it up and threw it back and it blew part of him away. He is laying there moaning and groaning and hollering for help. There is nothing you can do, if you stood up you would be dead meat. 43:46 That was another experience that I can recall very, very vividly. To this day I believe we had WWI ammunition because it was early and the fact that everything they had was going over to Europe. So all we were doing was a holding 7 �power really now that you think of it to keep the Japanese out of Australia. 44:24 If they ever got to Australia, God help us, I don’t think we would ever have stopped them, but that’s the way things go. Interviewer: “did your hatred for the enemy drive you?” Definitely. In fact, I would say that I was discharged from the hospital and got back to Grand Rapids, if I had run into a Jap in the street, I’d have cut his throat and I wouldn’t have even blinked an eye. 45:15 I would just cut his throat period. That’s how much you get to hate them. Sure, you mellow over time, but it takes time to mellow too. Some of the things you went through and saw, it’s absolutely hate. Interviewer: “How do you feel about the Japanese now that you’ve grown older?” How do I feel towards them? Their fine, their a human being and they should be treated as such. I have very strong thoughts about why we went over and kicked the “living hell out of them” and then turn around and buy all of their automobiles, but I’m not very happy about that, but that’s the way the country went so there is nothing I can do about it. 46:34 Interviewer: “You mentioned that you were Catholic. How much of a roll did your religion play?” Very, very, very much, in fact I had my knife and my rosary and that’s the two things I brought back with me. They didn’t want me to keep the knife I had, but it wasn’t listed as something the government had given me so they let me have it. Interviewer: “Did your view on your religious life change at all when you were in the heat of battle?” My view, I don’t know what you mean by my view of my religious life. Interviewer: “Let me re phrase that. Your personal religion, your catholic religion, did that change at all during battle?” If it did, it got greater because of the fact that you didn’t know if you were going to here today or tomorrow, so you trusted everything into the hands of the lord. There is no such thing as an atheist in combat. They can say what they want, but hey, when you get them down to the “nitty gritty “ they know somebody’s calling the shots so their ideas change. 48:50 Interviewer: “ Mr. Veneklase, I want to get back to Buna and the Kakoda Trail. What was the Kakoda Trail and can you describe what it was like?” It’s a dirt trail with stone that you could walk on. I mean it’s through the country, a way of getting from one point to another. It wasn’t direct; it went by the country’s side. Obviously you come through a valley, you walk through the river, and there were no bridges so you just hit from one to another and get through as fast as you can. It’s open water and a dead area if there is anybody there so you get through as fast as possible. 50:14 8 �Interviewer: “Supply factor was very crucial on the kakoda Trail. How did that affect you and moral and the army in general?” They couldn’t find us for three days to drop to us so and I don’t know why. They never told us, probably because the Japanese had come over and bombed Moresby, I don’t know. All I know is we went three days without supplies before they could drop to us. I’m sure that’s exactly the way that I picked up that worm, because we came through the village and it looked like a chicken, it’s head went off and raw chicken doesn’t taste that bad if your hungry, but I’m sure that’s the way I got that worm. In my own mind I’m sure of it. 51:42 Interviewer: “What were those 3 days like?” Have you ever gone without food for a day? Well, I would suggest that you try it sometime. You’ll appreciate a hamburger or a peanut butter sandwich. You’ll think you lived like a king. 52:20 Interviewer: “Did the experience you had during the great depression growing up, did that help you adjust to these circumstances?” It helped me because my father of course was very, very strict with us and at a meal he said, “It’s on your plate, you eat it”. He didn’t care if you liked it or not, if it was on your plate he didn’t care how long it took, but you ate it. My mother took hamburg, which was about all we could afford, and she could make a meal out of hamburg so many different ways and thank god that she could and I was in a big family. 53:21 Interviewer: “What was the food like in the army?” Better than nothing, but you get used to it. After all, the guys are cooks, but their not chefs so whatever they have, enjoy it. 54:00 Interviewer: “ I understand Mr. Veneklase that you were wounded in battle. Would you please describe that?” I got hit with shrapnel from that bomb that killed Neal or Bud Tambor. The medic pulled it out and put a patch on it and the following day, he was killed. When I got back to the hospital they said, I showed them the scar and they said that I would have to prove that it was from enemy fire. So how are you going to prove it when the two guys are dead? There is no way of proving it. At that point I said “well keep the damn medal”. 55:18 Interviewer: “Was that your ticket home?” No, no, the worm was, they couldn’t treat me overseas. They had to bring me back to the states and the treatment for it. They told me they got rid of it and a couple three years ago a doctor told me, “you still got it, they got it under control, but you still got it”, but I’m alive. That was the reason they had to bring me back. Back, stop to think, they didn’t have hospital ships back then. I came back on an old Dutch freighter. 56:17 They took me down to a hospital in Temple, Texas. Probably by this time it’s probably closed. Klosky General. 56:33 Interviewer: “Now did you, when you were away from your fellow comrades and being wounded, how does that feel?” 56:54 9 �I was conscious, but when they came over after they captured the Buna Village and Buna Mission, I must of got real close to one of them because I was out and when I came to the seaplane was there and they obviously wouldn’t have a seaplane in the bay there if the Japs were that close. 57:28 It had to be at least 5 days and when I came to, I was on the backboard and the guy said “how would you like a dry cigarette?” It was like a stick of gold. It was a guy from the Salvation Army. So you can figure out the time that was spent between the time they struck and the time that I came to I don’t know what happened. I don’t know how many, what happened or how long it took for sure. I only know is that they got me out of there. 58:07 Interviewer: “You mentioned, Mr. Veneklase, a cigarette. How much of a factor were cigarettes and even beer?” I never drank and I never smoked until I went in the service. My dad, like I say, was very strict and I played a lot of baseball so he was death on it. He asked, “Do you want to smoke or play ball?” I wouldn’t give up ball. You ask about his being strict, yes he, the kids in the neighborhood went to Berean Baptist Church and you got to remember this is back when you walked into a different church, it’s a no, no. Today it’s nothing, but I went up there and I got to go to their picnic and I came home with a brand new glove and a ball, a baseball, and I couldn’t wait to show my dad. Showed it to him. “Where did you get it”? Told him, he never said a word, just put his shoes on and said “come on were going back up to that requiem and give them back that ball and glove. That’s just like stealing it, it doesn’t belong to you”. That was probably one of the best lessons I ever learned. 00:29 Interviewer: “How was coming home after the war was over?” I was home long before the war was over. I got out in 1943 and the war ended in 1945. I was married in 1944. A lot of celebration and I had a wife and a son. We didn’t have a car; we didn’t have money for a car. :53 Wherever we went , we walked. There again, like I say, I could talk to you like a father, these kids today, your spoiled. Interviewer: “When was the first car you got?” 16. Interviewer: “Did your dad give it to you? You had to have some way of getting it”. No, I worked on a farm when I was younger. Generally speaking kids get cars today given to them. 1:37 Back then it was a luxury. 10 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VeneklaseE Title A name given to the resource Veneklase, Erwin T. (Interview transcript and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Veneklase, Erwin T. Description An account of the resource Erwin Veneklase served in the 2nd Battalion, 126th Infantry Regiment, 32nd (Red Arrow) Division between 1939 and 1945. He enlisted in the National Guard in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and trained with his unit in Louisiana before beign shipped first to the East Coast and then back across country to Australia and New Guinea, where they were the first American troops to reinforce the Australians. His battalion crossed the Owen Stanley mountains on foot without adequate supplies or ligistical support, and then fought at Buna from Novl 1942 to Jan. 1943. He became seriously ill at the end of that campaign and was eventually shipped back to the U.S. His account is one of the interviews featured in the documentary Nightmare in New Guinea produced by Grand Valley State University. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mingerink, Jon (Interviewer) Mingerink, Rick (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-11-04 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/14ef37546db8ad385ef31d3c9c9d6281.mp4 6370ca2f2efe348619b1c8318a54ef9f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/051cf740657724ba8d0b25dc6f3e5726.pdf 6b9c72fb107ea72f3e67e4eb6de585b3 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran History Project Francisco Vega Part 2 (46:44) Interviewer: “We had gotten in your story up to the period of the Battle of the Bulge and we want to talk about that. You mentioned to me of an incident that took place when you were first in Normandy.” Yes, I was very much impressed and sometimes I think, how can I be that impressed with all the activity that was going on, the firing, the shooting, the people dying, you could see them just dropping wounded and others asking you for help, but I was very much impressed by some of the things that we did as young guys. One of the things that stayed with me—we were getting into a lot of mines and all of a sudden I saw this tank coming about and it’s got chains in front and they are flailing and just exploding mines and everybody is running in back of the tank to get through the hedgerow country and those are the things that have stayed with me, that whoever came about doing those things. Another thing I remember—it did not take too long to realize that whatever our work was, when we landed we had weapons in our hands and it was almost the rule that if somebody is facing you, they shouldn’t be, they should be going the other way so, you were very careful in a way, but I remember our carbines, they had a cartridge clip that you stuck on the bottom and once it was fired you were supposed to get another one and it didn’t take us long and we got two cartridges and used tape and tied them together. 1:53 When one cartridge was used up, you just turned it over and put it back in there, and a number of things like that. We had a—shortly after we got into Chantilly the word got around that we were going to have “Brooklyn chicken” and here we had been getting rations, C rations and K rations and all of that was like cardboard, but 1 �what is was, our cook had taken Spam and deep fat fried it and powdered eggs and we just thought it was a good big banquet, but nobody was telling any of these things, things we were putting together on equipment and things like that. 2:43 I do not know how this was done, one of the reasons we wanted to get to the Eiffel Tower is we understood the Germans had crystallized a number of communication cables and then we had two guys working on this, all Bell Telephone people, that repaired it and made it usable again so, naturally you had to be impressed. These guys were very unassuming, they were tinkerers, but they would get things done and constantly I heard they say, “All I want is to get back and get my little green truck”, I guess they would use a green truck when they would go and do repairs in homes etc., but I just thought I would mention that to you. 3:22 We started then at Chantilly we started getting some word that there was some activity behind the German lines and we would get this again because we were working right with the war room, which was Eisenhower’s right hand and he has to be informed. This is the reason I make the ----------before the breakthrough in the Ardennes, the Battle of the Bulge and the next thing I hear was, “ we have to get our guy out of there”, he’s in the Ardennes, and I heard them talking, I heard the adjutant, we’re all in the same room as Sergeant Major and I was in charge of administration stuff and I heard them talking and saying they needed to find someone and I said, “what is he going to do?” And they said he needed to drive the mechanics jeep, there were two trucks and we didn’t know what we were going to find out there , but we had to get that guy out. 4:22 They said to bring out the equipment or destroy it so, I said I would drive it, but then the Colonel was coming down the stairs and said, “what’s this I hear you’re volunteering for what?” And I said, “I want to drive the jeep, Colonel”, and he said, “we only have you and one helper now in administration”, and he would see me type at times and I would get that stuff out quick because I didn’t have to hunt and peck because I had 2 �worked with numbers so long so he said, “I don’t think so sergeant”, and I said, “I am insisting you let me go”, and he said, “why do you want to go?” 5:03 I said, “you and your guys have come across Africa and you’ve got all this experience and you’re going to deny me this one chance?” I did go and I drove the jeep and it was loaded down and I was the only one in the jeep and there were tool boxes in there that they thought they might need. I had hand grenades on me, I had a Thompson submachine gun mounted on the side, I had a carbine in there, I forgot what else as far as weapons that were there, but I, we started driving and it was getting dark, we were driving at night, and the only thing we had for lights, I was following the second truck, all they had for light was a little square of light that you could see—there were no big lights or anything. 6:00 We’re moving on that—when we would get to a corner to turn and it was at night and what happens is the jeep has a short wheel base and anytime you hit gravel you lose traction and start spinning and that happened to me twice. The guy in front could see that I was not behind him, my headlights were little tiny slits in the cover of the headlights and they came back and wanted to know what was the matter, did I know how to drive the thing. There was fighting going on around us so, we get to Reims and we are going to Ardennes where the fighting was going on and I remember as we get to the river, it is a very high bridge and it had been bombed so they are not using it. 7:19 They said they were going to cross it and as we get close to the river the engineers had put together what looked like a children’s--Interviewer: “Tinker toy bridge?” Well, like rubber boats. Like what you would have in the back yard for a child and they had joined them and on top of that they had planking. This thing is across this river and I would say this river was about twice as wide as the Grand River downtown. We had to cross this thing with branches coming down, if I were the Germans I would be a mile up the river and put a big tree in 3 �there or something, this was going through my mind. First the trucks went and got through and I’m following, but I could just feel this thing moving, but we got through on that and we started going through some villages. 8:20 We get to one village, this is daytime, we slept in Reims, I remember I slept under the jeep with air force wool stuff on and we get to this town and there’s a—it’s pretty bombed out, the streets are pretty bad so we are going very slow, but the German people are very close to us with their houses and stuff and I was expecting a grenade anytime on that thing because they could just flip it from a window or something, but as we get close to the center part of town, they had a little plaza and you couldn’t go straight and you would go around the side and here’s this fellow standing in the middle of this little plaza with a tuxedo and a top hat on. 9:15 I thought it was the mayor saying hello or something and we didn’t stop and we kept on going and we came to another location where there were a lot of displaced persons and prisoners of war and I thought it was some kind of a concentration camp because they had them in a group, but along the street there was a ditch and the people I saw were well fed, they were fat and big and they were guards and the people were there with there arms crossed on there stomachs and what they did is they cut the stomachs of the prisoners to give them a slow death and these guys were sitting there with their intestines in their hands just dying. 10:17 The guards of the camps were doing that. Interviewer: “That’s got to be stuff that’s happening later on in the war, not the Battle of the Bulge phase.” We’re going to the Battle of the Bulge. Interviewer: “In the battle of the bulge you’re still in Belgium and France, not where the camps were.” 4 �This I can—I mentioned to you that we’re in Germany—we’re in some country that is not France when we crossed the Rhine. Interviewer: “It sounds like you’re crossing the Rhine, but I t sounds to me like you got some parts of the going into Germany story mixed up with the Battle of the Bulge story because in the bulge story, you were still in an area that was friendly to you and in the camps story the camps were all in Germany. 10:54 We got to Montigny [Malmédy?] and I saw guys that had been shot there, it was snow. The worst thing we started seeing was many of these soldiers were frozen. This is past where the prisoners were, there was no snow there that I can recall, but it was cold. As we started moving, we saw the GI’s, they had trench rolls, but they were frozen on them. We saw some of the wounded and as we started getting through we found our man and he was not where any of the troops were or anything like that, and he comes out and he is very happy to see us. I don’t know who had the map or compass or anything out and as we started getting through we finally found our man he was not where any of the troops were or anything like that. We got there and he comes out very happy to see us. I don’t know who had the map or the compass or anything out—before this happened, this one night before we got to where he is, I kept wondering that is these guys are spread out again and they don’t come back where do I go? I have no road map, nothing. 12:01 That’s the way things were going so, when we got to—it was dark and I don’t know just what location, but there was firing going on and I got myself away from the truck and the next thing, I heard somebody yell and it was English help or something and I slowed down and it was dark and I couldn’t see anything except I could tell there was somebody out there maybe 100 feet away from the road and by then the guys started coming back, one of them came back walking and again he said, “you’ve got to keep up with us”, and there was fighting going on 5 �all around there and I said, “I know”, and he said, “why did you stop?” I said, “Because somebody needs help”, and we had to stop because this guys yelling out there. 12:59 And he said, “you’re hearing things”, so it took a little while and we went out there and here’s a truck, Red Ball Express loaded. A small truck with five gallon cans on it and the gasoline is spilling all over the place and we’re getting fired at and I don’t know where it’s coming from or anything and we got him out, this guy is caught, but the guys got him out and put him in the jeep and dropped him off where some American soldiers were and we asked them if they had a field hospital or a medic or something. I don’t know what happened to him. That was one incident and we kept on going and we got to where this fellow with a truck with a piece of equipment was and he said, “let’s get out of here, let’s get out, let’s get out”, There’s a lot of shooting going on now and I said, “we cannot take the equipment.” 13:57 We had long silver tubes like pipe, it was an explosive, Magnesium, I think it was Magnesium and so he had all the Magnesium set up, we got some more and put it on everything we could. 14:20 When we left England, they made us get rid of everything, any correspondence, anything that could identify you and it was the same thing at that moment, we didn’t want the Germans to capture it or whatever happened. Any Identification—fingerprints or whatever they would use. Everything melted, those magnesium bombs—just white stuff and got back and got back to Chantilly, but there was an experience there—we ran into quite a few American soldiers—I don’t think that—I did not get into Bastogne, I did not see that. As far as the incident for example, the gasoline for Patton, we were getting messages even before that Patton was going to stop at a certain point and Patton wasn’t answering. 15:07 He was out there and not answering us so then we sent a message out saying “no more gasoline” and that’s the way we stopped him to the best of my recollection because there were messages going out, but I don’t know if he was going to Berlin or Bastogne, 6 �but he ended up in Bastogne and we saw some of that for him to get there and coordinate this thing—this is not an expressway or highway with maps and there were a number of places we got to, especially on the way back, where leaving we burned the stuff and the people were just screaming at us, they were angry because things had come through and they had gone over their equipment, they had carts and animals. 15:56 Interviewer: “You had refugees trying to get out of the way and our equipment is going back and forth with Americans retreating and advancing and it was pretty confusing.” There was another town where we were and I found out later was the Netherlands, on the strip, I don’t know where, I have it written down somewhere on that, but that was our experience in Ardennes. We got back and it didn’t take long before we started to back up right away. We had a ceremony there; I think it was before I went to Ardennes, where they presented, I think, fifty bronze stars to this outfit and decorations for the colonel, but these were all guys that were in Africa together. 16:42 I remember the incident there, another thing that’s unusual—we had one fella who came in from Africa and they had all been together, I think he was from New Jersey and he didn’t give a darn about anything and he now became a sergeant major and I think he had about forty promotions from pfc and back and they would promote him and he doesn’t care, but he was the one, when we got to Chantilly, he took one of the little buildings that we had and set it up as a barber shop and you would walk in there and he had all kinds of bottle that he put water in and colored it like you would always see in a barber shop. 17:26 It was nice to see that you could get a haircut, but we would get a haircut over in Chantilly from the French and what they would do was they would just pull your shirt back and blow the hair, but with this fella, he would give you the feeling that it was a little bit better and more like what you would get at home. He was one of the persons who received the bronze star and it was wintertime and they had us all in 7 �formation in the street and in two rows. I forget who the officer was that came to present the bronze stars and he would pin them on them. Well I’m in the second row and the sergeant tells the colonel that he, I don’t know what his name was, doesn’t want to come out and he tells the sergeant to get him out here. Now here is a guy with a long history like I mentioned and the colonel said to get him and bring him out here and he comes back and stands there and I think it is the general who is presenting the stars and he’s giving a talk and he’s pinning them on and so this guy comes out and he stands right next to me and all he is wearing are shoes. 18:40 Nothing else and it’s so cold all his hair is just standing out and I thought, “oh no, what’s going to happen here and the colonel saw it and he didn’t say a word and the general comes along and finishes that row and stands back and of course he stands right there and he has the medal to give him and he looks and I’m standing right next to him, I ‘m not getting a medal, and nobody says a word, but the word has gotten around that this guy is naked so, the colonel puts it on the guys shoulder and says,” you’ve earned it”, and he moves on. 19:23 You run into these incidents that are so far removed from what you see on the reporting on TV there. Things are going on there a lot of things like that took place. 19:34 I came back and I was transferred, I prepared all the reports, and I think you have to have seventy five or seventy four points to come back and I think my army discharge shows I missed it by two points and I had done all that work for thirteen hundred people over there and the colonel comes over and talks to me and he said, “I feel badly you know that”. And I said, “Yes, I know that”. Interviewer: “So basically the rest of the company was getting to go home, but you were staying.” Yes, I had to go to another company, long lines, I can’t think of their name right now or the number and they were in Bagustadt [Ingolstadt?]. 8 �Interviewer “In Germany, yes.” These long lines were going to be moving also very quickly and he said, “I can’t thank you enough”, and I said “fine” .for getting all the records, everything was—and suddenly we found out where we had been, we didn’t know the name of Omaha Beach, we knew the names of all the other battles because they had to be put in the records and they had to be done individually so, this is what I did. 20:43 Then he said, “you’ll be going home soon, your going to long lines and they are moving also”, and I said, “ok, thank you”, I had also gone on a furlough To Nice, from there they gave us a chance for a week so, we went on that and came back again. It was quite an experience, I think it took us—but Kissingen—we had gone past Chantilly, past Kissingen, we were in Germany, I went to the Black Forest. Another incident on that—we had been on the rations and I know that when we went to the black forest there were beautiful streams there and somebody saw there were trout in there and it wasn’t long before the grenades went in and they got the trout and we had fresh fish on that. 21:37 I had an incident there when were getting to Lechstadt and I started getting there with an early group and that and I started getting a toothache and I end up with a toothache—wisdom teeth and it was really bad so, I had to do something and I said not to send me back that it would go away, but they said it wouldn’t and that there was a dentist there and they told me to go see him. I went in to the dentist and the first thing he saw me he started talking and he said, “my name is Sullivan and I’m Jewish and he was nervous and he put me in his chair and his chair is run by a fellow who speaks Spanish, but I think he was Pilipino and the chair looked like a sewing machine that turned the drill. 22:43 He said, “take the chair, but I don’t have any anesthetic, it’s coming in from somewhere”, and I said, “I can’t wait Dr. it is really bad”, and he said, “you have two of them, not just one”, and I said, “I want you to take them out”, and he said, “without anesthetic”? I said, “do whatever you have to 9 �do and take them out”, so he said, “let me get some volunteers”. He goes out and they strap me in this chair like you see, my arms and everything and these guys are holding my head and he said, “ok now, I’m going to have to cut around the gum” he explained to them, these guys that are holding me and he cut around the gum and it’s just like hearing things break, like pencils cracking and he said to the guy, “let me have an elevator”, and it’s like a long screw driver and he puts it under the tooth and snaps it out. 23:43 Then he does the same thing with the other one and then it hit me, just like somebody hit me in my head, on the front of my head, just like a blow. So then he said, “OK, now were going to do something to stop the bleeding”, it was a powder—what did they call it? It is used when you get cut—anyway he put the powder in to stop the bleeding, but he said, “you are going to go to bed and don’t walk because you can hemorrhage and really bleed”, and they gave me more powder and they stopped bleeding. I went to the place where I was staying that we had taken over, I guess it was a spa deal so, I went in and they knew what had happened and they were all talking about it and they said, “you’re crazy to have done that”, and I said, “It was that I can’t do anything, it was just getting worse” so, they took me up to this room where I was staying, we had just gotten there, I put my duffle bag in there and I get in bed and they put this great big pillow, it was like a big pillow that is made of feathers on there. 25:10 Interviewer: “A featherbed”. I had never seen one of those and they put me on that and then he comes over and says, “The colonel heard about it and he sent you something for you to drink”, and it was whiskey, which the officers had—we didn’t have it. I took a glass and I wanted to knock myself out and I woke up at some point and I started to bleed and I put some more of that powder on it, I can’t think of the name, but I was just fascinated how that powder just stopped the bleeding. That was over 10 �with and we started getting the people back and from that I went to Nice and they took us to Frankfort, or some large city, where there were planes and we got into a C-47 and the fella said, “don’t use the first two seats on this side and what had happened was shrapnel had come in and you had metal. The seats were like trays that you have in a cafeteria, but they’re all just stamped in there, the seat were stamped with no cushion or anything so, we sat on that and the sergeant with the plane, an enlisted man, said to me and the guy on the other side, the right side, “I want you to watch and if you see a bolt shaking like it’s going to come loose, let me know and we’ll stop the plane. It was what you call it, a covered engine”? 26:37 Interviewer: “Yeah”. So we take off and of course you get this whistling coming in through the holes in the seats and the pilot says, “I’m going to fly low enough so you can see over Switzerland, the Alps and Lake Geneva. I didn’t care where I was because I was concerned about the darn plane and the bolt. We went to Marseilles and we landed and this bolt pops out and I told the crew chief and he said he would take care of it and I said, “were in Marseilles now”, and he said, “your getting off, we just have to wait until a plane lands”, well, another plane came in, a B-17, and it came in and never stopped, it went right into the water. 27:30 They were having problems with shot up planes, but I don’t think the guys drown or anything. We got off the plane and they took us to Nice from there. We got good food and rest, they took us back and I finished preparing the papers for the outfit to leave and I went to Bonnstadt and there again they had displaced persons and many of them had broken bones and they had not been set and I don’t know if it was from beatings or what, but their legs were bent between the knee and the ankle, they were just completely bent. Their arms—they had been really mistreated and others had been hit and had their teeth knocked out, but this was all on my getting ready to leave. From there they took us to 11 �a train, forty and eight, box cars, and I forget how many of us were in there and again, it didn’t take us long to get a fire going and something that I ended up using later on at Willow Run. At the University of Michigan when I was living at Willow Run, we took a can of sand and somebody had some gasoline and we poured the gasoline on the sand and light that because there were no seats. It was a cattle car. 29:02 We left there and got to La Havre and left on a brand new ship, the Wilson Victory, it was one of those that was made in a week or so and it was brand new, it did not have a ballast on it. We ran into a—it was very good because it was all clean and as we went down, we had some kind of dividers for the hammocks which were for sleeping and we had our duffle bags, but we started leaving on that and we started getting some food. They wouldn’t give us any milk, I wanted some, but they didn’t give us milk. It was a brand new ship so, we started out and this first thing you know we ran into one whale of a storm. I mean the front of that ship was going out of the water and slamming down, the propeller was whirling in the wind and it just went from bad to worse. 30:06 I don’t know what happened to the ships that may have been with us, but at one time a big beam got loose on the fore and it chopped a number of the posts with the hammocks and that’s another incidence where somebody yelled, “get the duffle bags” and we all got our duffle bags and just went after that beam and covered it and got on top of it just like it were a human being. That is another incident I can remember on that trip, there were no delays, no submarines or anything. Interviewer: “Do you remember when it was that you were sailing out? Was it after the war was over now?” No, I was discharged December 15th of 1944, no 1945. Interviewer: “The war was over then.” It was just over because it was just ending at that time, the “Battle of the Bulge” just took place. 12 �Interviewer: “The bulge is December of 1944 into 1945 and Germany surrenders in May of 1945.” I was discharged in December of 1945 so, that took place before this. All the time I was there, I was in a combat zone so were the other guys. There were snipers, land mines and we could not talk to the population, and in fact we were prohibited from doing it. 31:30 We learned four words in German very early that they taught us, even before we got to the beach head— rausmitten(get out of here), tun(halt), and I forget what the other two were, but those four words were what we would use. We would not do anything with the German people because we didn’t know if they were friend or foe, even in civilian clothes. 31:56 So the moment it ended I was on my way back. I was discharged in December, whatever time it took to get from Bonnstadt to La Havre and coming across. Interviewer: “Well your discharge has your services coming in the middle of 1945.” My discharge came in December of 1945 at Fort Sam Houston. Interviewer: “Yes, but that’s still seven months after the war is over basically, but you got far enough to be in Germany which means you’re there in 1945 when the Germans are surrendering and all of that. You’re saying while you were there, you didn’t really have contact with the Germans.” I didn’t have anything to do with the surrender, I had no details on that and by then we were— our outfit was ready to get back, some of the fellows did go to the pacific, they signed up for that, I didn’t consider that, I had met this girl in Peoria, which I married in 1946. 32:52 I had my own business before I went in the service and I wanted to get back to work. I had people working for me before I came out of high school, but that wasn’t unusual in our family, we were 13 �working and studying, but I wanted to get back to do something else. I wanted more studies, I had been to Oklahoma A&M, Bradley, LSU etc., and I was fascinated and we always had encyclopedias at the house too, but no sooner than it was over I thought I was fortunate to get through all this stuff and I saw a number of guys that were hit. We had a fellow by the name of Garcia, I can’t remember his first name, but he drove a, he was a courier in a jeep and he was not very tall, but he would go from Chantilly to a number of towns along the boarder where the army was and their messages, they didn’t want to send anyway but by currier so, he would get into his jeep and he would scoot down and he had some metal stuff that he had put on the jeep on the side and he would drive that way. 33:55 Well, he ended up with a broken back. I remember they brought him back and he was hit by something on the jeep and was knocked off the highway and got a broken back so, they brought him back to, we were in Chantilly then, and they returned him to the states. Just a number of incidents like that and I’ve been keeping track of some of these things as I remember them, but it is unusual because some of these people who have written and to be honest with you, they have taken somebody else’s word without proof on that, they just want to sell some books and we have to address a recent situation, he wrote the WWII—it was on television—The War— Interviewer: “Ken Burns.” Ken Burns, and he had done this before and because of the communications we have now with the computer it is instant across the country you know, but he had written book where he did not recognize any countries that spoke Spanish. Jazz, some of the greatest jazz musicians, Latin America even today, that’s well known, and you have many of the black jazz musician and Latinos, he didn’t recognize them. He wrote about baseball and sports and he didn’t recognize any of the Hispanic players. Reggie Jackson, his middle name is Martinez, and today how many 14 �do we have in each one of the leagues and they have been around for a long time. When he wrote about the war, he didn’t recognize the Latinos and many won the Medal of Honor and by ethnic breakdown it’s the largest group. 35:41 That is one of the reasons when I saw what you were doing and not that I was going to mention it-- it is not recorded. Now you are doing it. Interviewer: “Yeah, there is a group at the University of Texas that have conducted a lot of these. They aren’t run by historians and there are some issues with the quality of what they are doing, but they at least have made a fairly substantial collection. That was available to Burns at the time, but he just didn’t know about it or think about it and that was pretty embarrassing when that happened because there was no good reason for it.” 36:17 In addition, he is doing it with tax money and I work for myself and you pay taxes, you want to see that money go to doing some good for us and not to eliminate people who have made a contribution fighting for this country, which is the highest thing that you can do. When people don’t want to go to war somebody has to and there comes a time I think when we have a Bush right now and anybody that wants to run for president better have a tremendous confidence in them, any political office, to want the job because you’re going to get people who you don’t do anything right. I remember when at Pearl Harbor they came over and attacked us and all we were asked in most of these cases we don’t stay there as the colonials did years ago. All we have asked is a small piece of ground to bury our dead in the National Cemeteries and they are there. The same thing for example when we had the towers bombed in New York, they came over for whatever reason, but within hours there wasn’t a plane in the sky. The president sent out—and he was not in Washington you know— 15 �Interviewer: “He was down in Florida.” Within hours every plane was on the ground so, this took a lot of support and a lot of determination to do it just like Truman coming to drop the atomic bomb. 37:41 If we stop to think what was going on in the South Pacific, all the people who were dying there and again because of the attack on Pearl Harbor. Somebody makes the decisions and they’re tough so, I have to say we have had some pretty darn good people as head of our government and when they are there they become what the demand are of the time and at that point. Like we talk about ken Burns, now he has additional funding to write some more, but he’s getting now caught because the people are writing to the sponsors. This is our system of government—free enterprise—fine you make money and you spend it on something, but you want your return on that. 38:26 Interviewer: “Let’s try turn it back here to your own story. Back at the time you spent in the army, how do you think that affected you as a person?” Oh my gosh, it’s—you’ve been recording for an hour and a half or two hours and it will take me about three hours to give you examples of the change. Interviewer: “Well then, give me one good one.” When I said I worked for myself, before I came out of high school I had two cars. I went to a private school, OK? I had no credit cards, but if I didn’t have $200.00 in my pocket to me it was almost like a mortal sin. In other words it gave me the freedom of buying things and I had people working for me, but I wasn’t the only one in my family. All six of us, boys and girls all have had their own business, but then to get exposed to the nation that was using by force to train to fight to the point of dropping the atomic bomb that is a tremendous dedication of a group of people, I don’t care who they are—short, tall, catholic, protestant, but it came and we joined together on that and we had the people who brought us together. When you take Roosevelt for 16 �one, Patton, Arnold who flew the first bombing mission in B25’s and taking off from a carrier to bomb Tokyo to let them know we’re hear and we’ll get back with you. All of these things are people who are unbelievable and you go through any of our city blocks and I would say you have twenty houses in a block or fifteen every on e of these people is possibly a different religion and somehow we get along. You go to countries where the religion is the same—even dictators where they have the same government, they can’t get along. So, what is it that we have here? Well, if you read the constitution it tells you a little bit about it. I take my hat, for example when you take the change; it is almost a change that I would say that I have gone through when Roosevelt died. 40:40 I was in Chantilly and I was on the Teletype and the message comes through in code. We have cryptographers right next to us and the guy comes over before he gives it to the war room and says, “look what came in, the president died”, for Roosevelt to die— he had brought this country out of a depression –during the depression, I worked for ten cents a week for two weeks. We were in very, very bad shape and all of a sudden Roosevelt died and he is the one that took us out of the Pearl Harbor and we’re winning the war—my first thought was that we lost the war, but we didn’t know of any other president—it was Roosevelt and the Democrats, we heard of Hoover—well he made a mistake and it was bad, but we didn’t hear— now who is going to follow up? 42:37 My gosh we saw a picture of the guy Truman and he’s coming out of Texas and he’s got a Stetson hat on and there was no big smile, no charm, Roosevelt was like Kennedy, they didn’t have to talk, they projected themselves and all of a sudden you see this guy who had not finished college, who had been in bankruptcy, Truman, and we had a war going on, this is not over and look at what he lived up to—the GI Bill, he did away with the racism and discrimination in the armed forces, he brought them together so, these are the changes that I see, but almost—I’m not even a part of it, it’s just too big on that and it’s still 17 �going on. I think one thing we should publicize is, any of these people who are thinking of invading us, Iraq or for a time it was Russia and let them know that just that part of the constitution that we had before the Supreme Court that we’re entitled to a gun so, they should think if they are going to invade America, every time they walk on our blocks, these people have guns in their houses, they don’t have to put an army together and they have done this since the colonial times. 42:58 Interviewer: “I remember Humphrey Bogart pointing that out in a movie during the Second World War. The Germans should be careful about going to—it was Casablanca— certain parts of New York you didn’t want to go. Well you have told a remarkable story here and I would just like to thank you for coming in and doing this. I’m still active in the community and the same with my children, I have three daughters and one is Margaret Vega, she is with Kendall, she’s a professor of art and our oldest, Sue, is a housewife and her son is graduating from the University of Hawaii, he got a scholarship there and our youngest one Liz, she use to be an anchor here at channel 8 so, I’m familiar with some of the work that you do, but she here and went to New York to get a station on it’s feet. She was constantly being offered private secretary jobs and she took one with Turner Television and I remember when she mentioned that I asked her what she was going to do and she said they wanted her to train some of their people when they appear on television before congress and the public etc. They wanted her to get more training so, she was sent to—she had a masters already out of Michigan State University, but she had worked at Aquinas and Michigan State and also in Rochester at the university there, so schooling was very big part. They sent her to Denver for some schooling there in finance and they sent her to England, Turner did, for economics and she starts going across the country, she’s married and has two children, her husband runs like our 18 �VanAndel Arena here, in Rochester New York, good tax payers. They started sending her across the country doing film and training people—Garner and some of the movie people making commercials, she’s in charge of that and the first thing you know she wants to make a change and is going to the west coast and I ask her where she is going to go from what she has now and she said she was going to Xerox because they were in trouble. They had offered her quite a job and she was leaving for Mexico in two weeks. They have a big mess down there and she had a whole staff to put together to straighten it out. Being able to communicate is great. She lives in Rochester and they closed the whole operation in Mexico and in the last year she has developed a system using the Xerox equipment they make and that she was recognized for by all the other companies—IBM and all of them, they gave her a big reception in Boston and from there she was given a big reception at the white house for this equipment. She just got back from England about a month ago putting the equipment in operation and right now she is in Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore for the same thing. So that when I mention to you that I have been involved in a number of things, this is the younger generation and you have the hope of doing anything you want to do and if anybody tells you that you can’t do it say good by to them. 46:34 there are a lot of opportunities all the time. Interviewer: “I think that makes a good concluding point here. Thank you for coming on.” Thanks for the invitation and thanks for the work you’re doing. 46:44 19 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VegaF2 Title A name given to the resource Vega, Francisco M. (Interview transcript, video, and papers, 2 of 3), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Vega, Francisco M. Description An account of the resource Francisco Vega was born in San Antonio, Texas. He tried to enlist in the military immediately after Pearl Harbor, but was initially rejected because of his Mexican ancestry. He eventually did enlist in the Army Air Corps, and began a long process in which he used his talents and persuasive skills to find increasingly interesting assignments, eventually training as a teletype operator with a signals unit that landed on Omaha Beach on D-Day and was eventually part of Eisenhower's headquarters. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army. Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-03-07 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3a76bbf8f01cd69750e4f551218db552.mp4 8cfe3faaf5f3207836651040044e8d1f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6234fb26fb171ce5d15028f2baa6fd67.pdf 1704484d88e51b385cd157030f44cce8 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Francisco Vega Part 3 (36:14) Interviewer: “We are talking again with Francisco Vega. We are going to pick up with the end of WWII and go on from there. Mr. Vega, in the first interview we had basically covered your early life and your military career pretty much up to the end of the Second World War. You had further experiences after that, both in Europe at the end of WWII and then in the period of the Korean conflict, and so we would like to pick up the story basically, where were you when the war in Europe ended? Were you in France at that point still?” No, I was in Germany, we had been in France at Chantilly, and we had just moved to Kissingen in Germany and on the way there of course, we saw quite a bit of the country of France and Belgium and different things that had taken place such as the bombardment of the cities. The thing about Kissingen—I ended up going to the Ardennes. I volunteered to get one of our people out of there, we had special equipment and it was type ten equipment, which today we call satellites and it has to be from high point to high point. We were a mobile outfit. 1:30 Interviewer: “You talked about doing that in our first interview. That was during the war still during the Ardennes offensive because we had to get that out of there ahead of the Germans. From there just let me take it to the end of the war. That’s when we found out changes were being made. I was busy putting together the records. Our battalion had over 1300 people and we had myself and one other person. That’s all to take care of all the personnel records for the company, Headquarters Company, so we were very busy. Other than that, we thought it was, but 1 �we had not seen the end of the war itself and some of the people volunteered to go to the Pacific so, there were more records to get ready. Then I found out that you need a certain number of points—I had all these records of people who had been in Africa, who had been across northern Africa, and then into the landings in Europe. 2:30 We had been in five campaigns, all this coming together as the records are being put together. We realized—I think at one point someone said, “Do you realize how long we have been in a combat zone?” They said, “Eighteen months from the time we landed in Normandy until after the Ardennes and now we were getting ready to leave”. So, I found out I do not have—I miss returning with my outfit by two points. Interviewer: “Because your unit had already been in existence and you joined it as a replacement so, those guys had been in Africa etc., and they had more points than you and they could all be discharged, but you’re still there.” Right, and even with the five campaigns I was in, I still was missing a couple of points. I remember the colonel came over and he said, “I’ll arrange it so you go from here to Neustadt, it’s a long lines company, communications lines, and you won’t be there long. I feel badly that you’re not returning with us, but just get ready to leave.” That was it, I went to Neustadt and joined this outfit and while I was there I was able to see a great number of DP’s, displaced persons, many had broken limbs that had mended crooked and had not been set or anything. 3:51 I was there not more than two weeks and then I was asked to get ready to leave. They took us to the railroad station and there were “forty and eight” boxcars open and I joined with another bunch of guys and we started on the train back to Le Havre. So, you can see—from Germany all the way to the port of Le Havre. Remember, we had no seats and we had no toilets, we had nothing— 2 �Interviewer: “What was the weather like?” Very cold at that time. What we did, and of course there were a number of things, the people, the American soldier was so resourceful and we picked up five gallon cans of gasoline and other guys picked up containers and put sand in them and we would put the gasoline into the sand and light it, we were very careful because it was just an open flame, but that’s the way we came all the way to the port. 4:49 We get to the port and the different groups, they call them Chesterfield Camp and they have different names. Interviewer: “Yes they had a whole bunch of different camps and they were all named after different cigarette brands for some reason.” And from there they took us to the ship and we came on the Wilson Victory, now these were the new victory ships and this one was brand new, it had just come from the states and I don’t believe it had been used for anything yet. 5:20 Not a load of anything so, they put us on that and we left Le Havre, we left France. With that, we had a very, very rough trip. This ship would go down and I’m not a navy person, but it would go way up and come down and the motor would be whirling up in the air grinding away. We had on the area we were in, there was a beam that come loose and it just came right across the floor and we had a post with hammocks on the entire floor and it just cut them like they were butter and again using resourcefulness, we immediately grabbed our duffle bags are we went after that beam and threw ourselves and all our stuff on top to stop it. 6:12 We made it through and like I say, the storm was a very bad one, but we got through and landed at Camp Kilmer New Jersey, that’s the next place I can recall. I started making phone calls and one of the things that I was concerned about in Europe, a great deal, was I wanted to get back and marry this girl I had met and I was more afraid of not accomplishing that part of my life than I was of getting killed there, but this is the person I 3 �married in 1946 and we are still married. I finally went from there to the railroad station and when we got to Camp Kilmer, at the dock, I remember stepping out and possibly ten feet high there were boxes of small milk bottles in cartons and we hadn’t had any milk and we started drinking it and it got many of us sick. From there we went again to the railroad station and they took us down to—well, I went down to Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio and things started— events were getting into place and I remember getting into the railroad station in San Antonio and there was one fellow that came by and said, “well, I’m playing golf over the week end, are you going to be caddying?” It was a very quick reaction, but his lip was cut and they had to take him and get him some stitches, but again I did not fell racism or anything, but it just felt that this was not something that I wanted and I reacted to it. 7:58 Again, these were the changes that had come about, none of us had to put up with anything, we had volunteered many of us, and from there I remember calling home and my dad asked if I was ready to leave and he would pick me up, but I said I would take the bus and I’ll get home just fine. I will have a couple of days and they were processing us and we were at Dodd Field, part of Fort Sam Houston, and I remember we were in this four car garage, open, and I heard the sound of a plane and this young soldier processing us yelled, “the plane is strafing” or something like that and we hit the floor and then they started laughing, but anyway, we picked him up and put him in the shower, clothes and all. That was an experience of the changes that were coming about and we were still reacting on that. 9:08 From there, I remember that one of the persons that was there—he kept looking at me for a while, he was a big first sergeant, the kind you would like to see in a movie, he had a big pot belly, he had medals on and everything else, and he said, “Hi” to me, he said, “You made it”, and I said, “Yes”, and he had a purple heart on and I said, “I wasn’t dumb enough to get one of those”. We were joking and I said, “What the heck did you do?” I only have my staff sergeant 4 �chevrons on, I had received a promotion to sergeant major, but he said, “I didn’t keep my butt down” and I said, “You were hit there? Are you joking?” We were just joking talking about that. 10:05 Then I said, “You know, I remember you for another reason , you were the guy that had me pack those one pound bags of saltpeter”, and he said, “oh, we do that all the time”. That was just another incident from there. I left there in the morning, I was discharged and I took my discharge and went to the bus and went home and I arrived home and of course the family was waiting, I had called them, and I remember my mother was crying and I thought—she’s crying, she’s happy, but she kept on crying for a while and I said, “mother, I’m going to be here now”. When I was talking with the first sergeant, he asked me what I was going to do and he said, “are you staying in the reserve?” I said, “you know I have been wanting to get a commission, maybe I should do that”, so I signed up for the reserve—that was the beginning of it. 10:57 The final deal. I get home and we sit down and we talked an my mother said, “I do have something for you”, and this by the way—I’m a little bit ahead of the story because this is after I’d been in Grand Rapids. When I was there I met with the family, I made a trip to Mexico, my aunt Simona, a grandmother, an uncle, aunts and cousins were there and my aunt said, “You know I made a promise while you were in the service, that if you come back we will keep this promise”, in Spanish it is called amunda, like an order that you agree to do something. 11:42 We went to the church, to the sanctuary of Our Lady of Guadalupe, and the promise she had made was that if I came back alive that she and I would walk from, on our knees, from the door of the church to the altar, which we kept on that, we did that. Again these are just part of the cultural side and I respected their wishes and I was very happy that’s what got me back. I returned to San Antonio and had a job right away with the Veterans Administration Communications Division because of my typing and this is in January or February of 1946. My wife and I, the girl I was going to 5 �marry, we agree to get married in May of 1946. 12:35 We were married, we returned to San Antonio—we were married in St. Louis, Missouri, and one of the fellows that landed with me in Normandy, he was our best man. We returned to San Antonio and we left for Grand Rapids— we found a school out there, the University of Michigan, for what reason I still don’t know, I liked the name and I had been to three other schools before in the army, universities, so when we could not get into the U of M because every state university was giving preferences to their state veterans. My wife had met Jean Adrianse, a Grand Rapids family here, while she was in Chicago, my wife was working for the Social Security Administration and living at the YWCA and this is where Jean also lived so, she mentioned Aquinas that was just getting started so, we came up and it was September of 1946. When I left the Veterans Administration I believe from the time I worked for them, in a few months I received about four promotions, paid promotions, because what I was doing was typing records and of course my typing speed was there. 13:57 Interviewer: “You were fast and you had a lot of experience with records by this time too.” And with numbers, that I was something I had done before I went in the service. I had about two years working as a billing clerk and that was just all numbers. We came up here in September of 1946 and in 1948 I went to the University of Michigan School of Business Administration and while I was there I met George Heartwell, the father of our present mayor, and he was just out of the navy and I was just out of the army and we lived next to each other at Willow Run Village in Ypsilanti. 14:39 We returned to San Antonio in January of 1951 and my wife was working at the Grand Rapids Press at the time, in the old building across from the veterans park, and there was an ad in the paper and I called my wife and she asked me why I wanted to apply for a job if we were leaving for San Antonio? I said, “we are”, and she said, “Were leaving in January?” I said, “yes, and this was October. During that last year, 1950, we were living on Norwood St. and 6 �I saw a job opening at the Eastown theater, they had a sign out there and I went in and talked to the owner at that time, Allen Johnson, and he said, “do you want that job”? And I said, “Yes”, and he was surprised, and he said, “No, that’s a woman’s job”, and I said, “Do you pay for this”? He said, “Yes”, and I said, “I’ll take it, I live right around the corner here”, so I took that and it was a big joke for a while because people were not used to that, but it was a good experience and I ended up managing the Wealthy Theater, the Four Star, the Family and the Eastown and that was a chain owned by Allen Johnson and the film was supplied by a Detroit organization. 16:03 In October of that year, that’s when I called my wife and said, “There’s a box ad in the paper and I would like to know who it is”, and she asked again if we were leaving for San Antonio and I told her yes. She told me the job was with Resurrection Cemetery, the Catholic Diocese, they were down on lower Monroe where those new buildings are now and I went over there and they said, “Look, there’s a fellow, Harry, he’s from Kansas City, he was up here to get Resurrection Cemetery started, it being the second Catholic Cemetery in the nation with no upright monuments. 16:50 I knew nothing about the cemetery business, but he talked to me, Harry Graff, and he said it was commission and here is what you do. You take this book; these pages and you study them. I said, “I have a couple of questions”, and he said, “Don’t worry about the questions, the people will have all the answers for you”, and he had come from Kansas City. The thing was, he didn’t know much about the business himself, but I believed him, he was in charge. 17:18 From October to January, I started calling and just telling people who I was and explained the facility of Resurrection Cemetery and could I have an appointment. Well, once I was there I would tell them that I was only going to be there a short time and did they have any questions well, I will finish in about fifteen minutes, but I lucked out all the way through because people did not want to talk about this, that they were going to die and be put here—that fact that 7 �they knew how long I was going to be there encouraged them to listen a little bit. 17:53 We left in January by then, the first week in January of 1951, I set a national sales record, I was told it was a national sales record, I sold seventeen contracts in one week. Yes, I made some money, we had a brand new 1951 Buick Special, custom made furniture and so, we left for San Antonio. When I was leaving I got a phone call from Mr. James Harrington who was helping the Catholic Church develop Resurrection Cemetery and the other one was in Kansas City Missouri, and he wanted to know why I was leaving and what was it that I didn’t like. I said, “No”, and he said, “Have you ever made this kind of money before that you are making?” I said, “not with a piece of paper and a pen”, and he said, “Well, you’re going back to San Antonio now?” I said, “yes”, I’m stopping in Peoria to see my in-laws”, and he said, “Could you stop by Kansas City?” I said, “sure”, and we stopped by there on the way down, he took us to the country club, we had wild game, it was just a beautiful place and he kept asking me “do you know what you’re going to do when you get to San Antonio?” I said “no”, and he said, “Why did you leave this when you were making this money?” I said, “I have made more money than this, I had my own business before I came out of high school, but never with just a pen and a contract”. He said, “If there is anything that you need, please give me a call, I enjoyed talking with you”, I went to his home—I was just there a couple of days and so, we left on that basis and as we were leaving he said, “There is one thing you can do for me, will you please check on these demographics for Corpus Christi, the church has called and they also want one of these cemeteries”. And I said, “Fine, I will be happy to do it”. I get back to San Antonio and this—I’m back to my early comment that I was ahead of my changes in life, and when I arrived in San Antonio my mother is crying, my dad is there, everybody is happy, but at the same time mother finally said, “I have something for you”, and I said, “What is it?” It was this envelope and I said, “ I do not know what it is, why 8 �are you crying?” He said, “If you look at the address, it’s the army”. 20:20 It was thick and I opened it up. I’m being recalled from the Air Force Reserve to be in the Korean War. I thought “oh my gosh”, I was just planning my life, starting a family etc., and I think I had to report the next day. We got there on a weekend and on Monday I’m at Brooks Field. When I walked in there I said, “Look, possibly could I get an extension?” They said, “no, walk over here”, and they swore me in and they said, “we are going to save time, we are going to issue you your clothing”, so, I came home with my duffle bag again. 21:06 In the meantime, I said, “I’ll get the work for Mr. Harrington”, and I did get to the library to look up the diocese and population etc. I called him back and gave him the information and he said, “Well, have you made up your mind what you’re going to do?” I said, “Yes Mr. Harrington”, and he said, “So quickly?” I said, “Oh yeah”, and he said, “What are you going to do?” I said, “I’m going back in the army”, and there was just silence. 21:33 He had never been able to go into the army because he had a problem with his feet and he said, “Would you repeat that?” I said, “I’m going back in the army, I’ve been called back”. He said, “Do you want to go back?” And I said, “No, not really”, and he said, “Francisco, with the record that you have, and what you did in the military, why are you being called back?” I said, “Mr. Harrington, I don’t know, but I have my clothing and everything and I am supposed to get back there”. He would speak like Missouri—slow, with talk measured, and he said, “What are you doing tomorrow?” I said, “Well, I think I have three days to put things together”. And he said, “Would you meet me at the airport?” He said, “I’ll let you know what time, what flight I’m arriving” so, he flew in. 22:23 He go into Brooks Field and it was either a full colonel or a one star general we ended up talking to and Mr. Harrington starts talking to him. He said, “I’m Bud Harrington from Kansas city, Missouri”, I can almost hear him talking this way, and he said, “I understand that Mr. Vega is being called back to Korea”, 9 �and this fellow was straight backed and he said, “That is correct” and Harrington said, “Well, I’m here to ask if you can give him an extension”, and he said, “No, we cannot do that”, and Harrington said, “Well, how about some time so he can straighten out his personal affairs?” “Sir, we cannot do that”, and Mr. Harrington said, “May I use your phone?” He picks up the phone and I’m trying to keep from smiling and laughing only because of what then followed. He called and said, “This is Bud Harrington”, and I think he said, “Is Harry there?” And then he started talking and he said, “Oh fine, fine”. The Muhlbach Hotel was part of Harrington’s family and a well-known name for a brewery and wealth etc. Well, pretty soon this officer who was in charge, he got the drift of what might be the person at the end of the line and it took me a little while longer, but then this officer, he kept telling Mr. Harrington, “It’s fine, It’s fine”, he didn’t want any part of it and then Mr. Harrington said something and he said, “Do you want to talk to him?” 24:14 This really got this officer quite concerned and Mr. Harrington said, “No, we’ve got it taken care of,” and that was the end of it. To this day, all I know is whoever was at the end of the line was important to the moment there. When I got the extension of thirty days, I did some more work for Mr. Harrington and he told them—“This is what this man has made and he is still working for me, he just got these demographics” so, he was telling the truth so, I get the extension—I still had only a certain number of days and all the furniture we had bought, by the way, had still not arrived in San Antonio and we found out the truck had gone into a ditch and it was all ruined. It had been in the water for some time. We went from there, the last week-end— I had to report on Monday, and I told my wife—“Look, I just want some time by myself, I’m going fishing” so, I went to the outskirts of the San Antonio River or one of the rivers and I remember I had a fly rod which I had not used in years and I didn’t even have bait on it, I just have a knot on it to get it out there and while I’m sitting out there this fellow comes along the 10 �river and it’s not populated and he’s in work clothes and he stops and he walks a little bit closer to me, he was about a half a block away when I saw him, and he finally gets close enough and he said, “Sir”, and I didn’t say anything because I had my own self pity or anger that I let myself get into situations like that. 26:00 Finally he said, “You got a cigarette?” I didn’t want to talk to anybody and I said, “Yes”, I was smoking at the time and I gave him a cigarette and he moves away and he asked for a match so, I gave him a match and I said, “Look, would you mind leaving me alone? I don’t want to be rude, but I’m out here going over something that I have to go over in my own mind”. 26:24 He lit the cigarette and smoked and as he was leaving he said, “When you get there tomorrow, you ask for this person”, and I let out a stream of profanity and I said, “Leave me alone you bum, just mind your own business”. Anyway, he left and when I go there to report the next morning the first sergeant said, “Please go into the office with the officer there”, and I walked in and this fellow from the river was sitting there. 27:02 Now, how this came about—I have had experience with even less explanation at Omaha Beach and I got through a lot of stuff, but here’s another one that came—he said, “This is for you—the orders— you do not have to report, you were called up by mistake”. I said, “How many people are you calling up by mistake?” He said, “If I were you I would get out of here” so, I walked out and I stayed I stayed there just long enough for that term to end and I didn’t sign up again, but I did want to get the commission and that’s why I stayed in there and that was the end of my time in the service. 27:54 Interviewer: “Who do you think was the person on the other end of that telephone Mr. Harrington was calling?” I think it was Harry Truman, they knew each other and Harry Truman had offices and a suite at the Muhlbach Hotel, so this is why—I never asked Mr. Harrington because later on I went back 11 �to work with him, but it was such an unusual thing, I wouldn’t ask. I respected the guy and that’s whom I thought he was calling and that’s whom the officers thought he was calling and it took me a little while to catch on. 28:39 Very unusual things, very unusual things that I experienced, like this fellow coming along the river and how did he know—I must have said something to him for him to tell me. He said, “ When you go in there, you ask for this person”, and I didn’t ask for anyone, I just went in because I didn’t believe him, that there was anyone that could help me anyway. 29:03 Interviewer “Kind of a strange business so, once you had that sorted out, did you go to work for Mr. Harrington then? Was that the upshot of that since you didn’t have to stay in the army?” No, I gave Mr. Harrington the information and my sister and I started talking about doing something in business and she said, “Let me show you something”, she had been making these sandals, they were flat and made of toweling cloth—what do they call it? Interviewer: “Terry cloth?” Yes, terry cloth, they were made from that and you just slipped into them. She had the machine there at the house and she was doing that and I said, “How long have you been doing this?” and she said, “Anytime I want to, I just do some work on this, but I want to tell you something I believe we can do, do you remember the Rizik brothers?” We grew up with them and they were Syrian or Lebanese, I don’t recall, they were Middle Eastern people, and I said, “Sure, Mike and Theresa”, we had been in elementary school, and she said, “I think we can get some work from them”, and I said, “How much work?” 30:17 She said, “Why don’t you go talk to them?” So, I went down town to the Juvenile Manufacturing Co. and they owned the building that took up the entire block and was about four or five stories high. Inside it was all embroidery and equipment 12 �for the manufacturing of clothing etc. I walked in with Mike and he asked how my mother was and the family and I told him they were fine. I said, “My sister is doing some machine embroidery and I thought I might be able to get some work from you for her, for us and he said, “What do you have? What kind of work?” So, I took out some samples and he said, “You can do this here?” And I said, “Yes”. He said, “Were sending all this stuff out to Dallas because we cannot get somebody here that can do this”. And it was just simply—well, it could be a number of things-- the samples I took were just a little piece of cloth with the face of a cat—one line drawn, almost like a cartoon deal and it could be done in a matter of seconds with a chain stitch like the machine that is putting a name on something. 31:28 So, he said, “I can give you quite a bit of business with us”, and I said, “Ok, please put it in writing”. Fine, he put it in writing and I go back home and I said, “I’ve got a letter here that will give us about as much work as we can handle”, and I asked my sister what we will need and she said, “Well, we better get two more machines or get one more machine”, and we took a room that was adjacent to the garage and started working on that. 32:00 I go back to Mike and he said, “I have an order, I’ll have it delivered for you”, and he sends out the beginning of a hundred forty thousand dozen. I think we finished forty thousand at $1.00 a dozen. Then my sister started training other people that had graduated with her from a technical school in San Antonio, Texas and we started getting a lot, we were just given flat pieces and it just developed into—we were doing anything that was printed we could put into embroidering. I had people that had a new breed of cattle that was developed and they wanted for shows. We would take a piece of felt, blue or white and embroider the photograph on there and of course there was very good money in that. These people treated these cattle like children, it was their pride and joy and the breeding and everything that went with it. 33:04 We got into working with furniture manufacturers, for the 13 �inside of caskets, we got into volume. By then we had three shifts working and Mr. Harrington called me and he said, “Could you break away and come up for a week-end?” I said, “Sure”, and my wife stayed in Peoria and by then we had our first child and I went to Kansas City and Mr. Harrington said, “Look, I’m in Albany and Troy and I’m not getting results, I have to have Grand Rapids—I have Kansas City”. Mr. Harrington had owned banks and automobile distributorships, Kaiser, Frazier, and he was a businessperson. He said, “Would you be interested in checking out to seeing if you can tell these guys how you made your sales?” I said, “Mr. Harrington, I just asked the people if I could explain the services we have.” So, I started there in Kansas City and the first thing I had to do—when I went into the first meeting there was a fellow who puts his feet up on the table and he has a small knife and he is cleaning his fingernails the first thing I did was ask him to wait until after the meeting if he wanted to talk to me. I said, “You have been fired”. So, the rest of them got the drift too. 34:29 They started listening and we started getting sales. Mr. Harrington said, “How would you like to handle the sales contracts?” I said, “Mr. Harrington, I’ve got an infant company there in embroidery, let me talk to my sister”. My sister and I talked and she said, “If you want to stay it will be fine”, and I said, “Ok, why don’t you take my share of the company for $1.00”. We had all kinds of equipment and machines, we had power-cutting tools—we had many things going. Interviewer: “That was all in San Antonio right?” That was in San Antonio. Interviewer: “Why were you up in Peoria at this point?” At this point I had come back to Peoria to be with my wife. She was also in agreement and so I just went back to Kansas City and whatever I had in San Antonio stayed there for quite a while, but I started then hiring and training the people for Albany connected to Detroit cemeteries and 14 �Grand Rapids. Then there was a change; Harry Graff wanted to return to Kansas city and Mr. Harrington asked me if I had any suggestion about who we put in there and I said, “Mr. Harrington, how about me?” 35:43 He said, “Why do you want to go there?” It was a big operation and I said, “I like the fishing and I like the hunting, I don’t like the cloudy days, but I think my wife will like it, she was born in Idaho and raised in Peoria, Illinois and like the changes in climate.” 36:03 Interviewer: “The seasons.” We came back to Grand Rapids again, George Heartwell had just moved to Grand Rapids from Detroit and he was heading Citizens Mortgage, he was a graduate attorney, but he went into the mortgage business and again we were like lost brothers. We had enjoyed many fishing trips, many hunting trips, the family came along and it’s been a very nice experience here and that about brings me up to working with you in the great job that you are doing. 36:40 Interviewer: “Well thank you very much for coming in and finishing the story for us.” Thank you very much again. 15 ��L.' ~onorable 11liscbarge . . I· . . f?hteJ ~ ~ ~ ' FRANCTSCO Oompany 'A" ~ v~GA 1700th 18 199 154 J ~.~~ ~ starrl S1gna l Service I • Serge~nt , '. Barta Hon(A1nl) ~~~}!f- ~~ae~~[7~~~~., - !?7;{a_~~ ~ <a~~ I /fd ' Army of tqe Jtniteil llJta,es I --- I '- ..... .,.,J " ae~' " n4 a ~_/~, ~~ [$a##[7~ . ~ ad ~ I 7' .._~ .__':::-:'] ." ; . -.J :' II . ) I I I �kh t. LAST NAME. 'IIIIT HU'E • MIDDLI HONORABLE I INITUL a. DISCHARGE AIIU SEILIAL '..J I"~ HO. I. OUOI / •. A'M O•• UVICI COMPONINT I 18 199 154 to O •• "'NIZATION Sig C A!JS II, I 7. OATI0' UPUATlaN •. S/S~t PUCI 0' .IPAUTIONSeparat i'.:m Center 1709~h Signal Ser,,;ice Dn (AVfjJ) 9 Dec 45 Fort Sam Houston Texas •. PUMANINTAaONI•• 'ONMULING pUIPa.u 3,21G 'il 'l'ravi is st I'II'H II. PUCI a, "ITN j Texas San Antonio 7 Bexar ibounty 28 Feb 22 ta. Ie SOUGHT San Antonio Tex~s U. COLO' nil coLa. HUN HIIOH7 WIIGHT /17.110.DIPeND. SEle 9 Drown Brown 610" 121 Las. 0 ) 10. ADDIIESS '"011 WHICH IN'LOUIEN' DATE 0' I'.' WILL , II. CIYILIAN aa , DATe 0' I'·' II DATI0' INLISTMINT 22 Cct 4211 .NDUCTION U. II. OCCUPATION Typist II TAR Y HISTORY DU C IO"'C"'tl"'.4A2C"YI o' •••• 'cc .II. '''0 /1'. 110. 1-37.32 MIL or PLACE 2 2 IItTI' INTO SIAYICI I st~ Rctg San Antonio Tex3.s I I 10. MILlTAIrOCCUPATIONAL SPICIALTY ANDNO. Adrnlnistrntlvc Gpecidist .I a, "THU ANDCAMPA'IINt Ho rmandy Central 31. 1'!athern .:Ie. WOUNDS l"rance R"CEIVED Good 1 Service IN ACTION Arden,' nes American Condut't StripJ I TYPHOID I TITANU' I.MUNIZATION SeRYIC.. IMONTHS GO 33 ••.• 'C.) I 45 IDATS 1 G 17 a •. P.,O•• UYICI I '1II0,.tHS I 1 31. 1 II o;;/3gt il I... vi No ne 1 , ~\I"I", . .'0; , r 'A' .... II,,' .,. n.VICI 'CHOOUATTENDID - General Basic " .l.-.. II ' ',.wI 0 _1';;..f _ (Th,s ~pa". 10' C\ ••• •••• ,~I .•I.I. '?' n ,,,. _. r-s-._ • ~. J' ••. A I. . I ••. INSURANCE I V'.u ?~./ 0 A T A NOTICE / J ~ a G-;.••••.• IDUCATID. (Yeora) ,. /, ••••• 'Z , •••••• I, e;tt U••••• "=j (j -1._' I I! •• .• DATIa, "U'VAL 15 May 44 2 Dec 45 I PAY ... 5 AND ItITUIN US w~ < J ';..s' 11'.1 - .•.. ,.:___ , U. s. EAT.IE ,'fI&JDilry • t.e. , .•,. h •• !h·~ .~.·t"".l·l~ I\dmini.r.mioa 10 I". aad (or the fll~u" ~a", "I ..• .t~, '''(\' "1 i'··a".·II!"P I-tndlt aadu rit~ In of rhe 5rrvlCrmr1l' Rn:t '11, a U'""',;l1I' DUTINATION 44 24 Uov 45 I n OUTSIDC CONTINeNTAL 2 },fa'r ae. HleNUTeMADINILD Ii IlltVICI DATIa, DIPUTUU 6 Jul 45 IDATS 7 I·,edal With Victory Ribbon I OTHI'rjPh~I~) I rOaEIG •• SlltYICI IYIEARS J-:AJ[1~ Campaign Award compl.'rn 01 above it.ml or .ntry 01 oth., lI.ms ,p.cIII.d in W. D. DI,.cliv.s) ..•:I: Laoel Dutton I Issued • ASR Score (2 Sep 1945) - 76 I I, 1,1 SI. 0•. PtISO" SIGHATUIIE IIING IIPA-IIIATEO • II: IT. ~fl/7~i! WD 1 AGiO .0aM 53.5' November 1944 ThJS 101m ~u~r.sede. all pleV;OU.f I ~ P•.••~~.?az j(.rlj. \jr.IFT~.l}j""'CPJlIS.~s (rr.z~~d ed'IIon2 arganizalion •• lgna'ure) 1 t nn I'er-s Ofrtcer 01 WD AGO F"orm.S3 and SS lor .nli.,.d person. .nh,l.d 'A an lIano,abl. Di.eha,q.. whIch will not b. u.••d aIr., ,eceipt 01 ,hI. r.vII/on. -_._~ \ I DATil 19Jan44 27!~eb45 TOTALUN"N 0' .ERYICI 17. CONTINENTAL Rhineland 'I'hen'ter I Caml?a~gn Medal Hed:),l I Ueri torioua Unit 3 Ov~rscas Service Dars :: LATEST 18Aor441 rlAa. I ILIU••• U••"u"•••••UTl (I.•.. lnlanl'y.aviatlonandma'hman.hlpbadg Sharpshooter Carl1ine 17 Feb 44 II Hone •• ALLPOI 'I' .• AND CITATION' stars ... !jl)? II, Europe DeCORATIONI Bronze I 1.'1' !: o �/ . R~.§lBl.Q.IiJ2 I I HEADQUARTERS I 1709TH SIGNAL SERVICE BATTALION (AVN) I APO 696, U S Army ~28 I August 1945. I SPECIALORDERS) I NUMBER •••••• 73) I • I I . . '1. 1ST LT ROBERT T. CARTON,0580604, AC. Co "en. l709th 816 Serv Bn (A~), 1s .placed on TDY. for a period of one. (1) day, eft o/a 4 Sep :+945, wP Hq. USFET and Wiesbaden M1litary. Germany. tor dy in conn~ation w!5Ignal Activities •. Upon compl ot TOI, he wlll ret to pror~~ orgn and ata. TDNby 1vlT. i- . . 2. Tec 4 samuel S. Mekler, 32498716. Hq Det. 1709th S1g Serv an (Avn), is~laced on TDY, for a period of five (5) days. eff o/a 5 Sep 19~5~ WP Complegne. Franae. for dy In connectlon wjSlgna1 Supply Act~vlties. Upon compl or TDY. ~e will rat. to proper orgn and sta. tDN by Mr. I 3. i I Co "A", 1709tl Tea '6 Paul J. ~ eller 1 12 440 g Serv an (Avn Sig Serv Bn ~vn. a trt n gr. t qDe. and is atct;ld to. 00 ."A It , l709th 81g Serv ~n (Avn) for rat only. EDCMR: 4 Sep 1945.J No travel involved.: . " I I 4. S6t franoisco / V I ' M. .' I " Vega, 18199154. Hq Det, 1709th Sig Serv Sn (Avn) It is ~PPOinte~ .an Pars Sst Major. for the 1709th Sig Serv Bn (Avn), vice, S/66t;·tHarley Q. lohaerrer Jr, 36181755. transferred. I 5. 'I'm, tol I' . . Care dire -, ! EDCMR: 4 S'ep 1945. ' • m ASGMT"- ~ HELD. I 1ST LT (82Q) ROBERT T. CARTON00 ·0", 1709th (0224) AO~. Sig Serv Bn (Am) 1ST LT (92Q) JOSEPH;BREOHER I 01643574 (0220) Si8 C Co "A", 1709th Sig Serv Bn (Avn) 0580604 . r~ I Serv ~~ (~~7~)tt~: EDCMR: 4 Sep 1945- No tra.vel i i ,I ~o:;S~o3~fi~31~~9t64~tg No travel involved. I I· Hq, ASGD, involved.. wp 00 MSW, 1709th 51S Serv Bn (.Avn) . . Co "Bit, 1709tb 5il$ 5erv Bn (Am) . ' ~:r~B;~ tI~~?5 e 1 I 7. 50 much of par 5. SO 72. this oSf perta1ntng to transfer of EMfr Co "B". l709th 5le Serv En \Avn) to Hq Det, l709th Sig Serv (Avn), 1s amended 1)0 include: "No t~ve1 involved". . Sn I t I §I , i I -1- I 1~.;.1~ ! �J IN r/Ii ~ r./ !.tf+ V~SIDN C v ll-TLG:.- ~ cj !NVAS"fO C. tI I«S fLlt-lS-)...I r.) 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Welght ••••••• 'fl'l.....;.;.:~ ......Ib.. ;,. •••••••••..•tone··)..~ti· •• Color hair ••.Iil.""'.~~or eye••••P.~.9.~Ple"lon .•••~ •••••••• Scart or dl.dnliul.hinll mark •••••••••••••••••••.••..•••••••••••••••••••••.••• ......................... . _ ~~.~ : ~:~.:~ . ~ .r" . --_._---- ....•• f � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VegaF3 Title A name given to the resource Vega, Francisco M. (Interview transcript, video, and papers, 3 of 3), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Vega, Francisco M. Description An account of the resource Francisco Vega was born in San Antonio, Texas. He tried to enlist in the military immediately after Pearl Harbor, but was initially rejected because of his Mexican ancestry. He eventually did enlist in the Army Air Corps, and began a long process in which he used his talents and persuasive skills to find increasingly interesting assignments, eventually training as a teletype operator with a signals unit that landed on Omaha Beach on D-Day and was eventually part of Eisenhower's headquarters. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army. Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-03-07 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6947c221911969200c44ea6a1e307117.mp4 471d88e1fb1d2b37ac2786ee32328275 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/94e630aadab9eb3f6579e7bad07f8a2d.pdf 6d7247e77e53a87bf3152496ca272647 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Francisco Vega Part 1 (59:46) “We are talking today with Francisco Vega of Grand Rapids, Michigan. The interviewer is James Smither of Grand Valley State University. Mr. Vega, can you begin by telling us just a little bit about your personal background, for instance, where and when were you born?” I was born in San Antonio, Texas on February 28, 1922. Before we start talking I would like to give you the title of what I am going to be talking about and that will be, “Snafu”, July 4th 2008 and “Snafu” simply means, “Situation normal, all fouled up”, and you will see from the very beginning of my lifetime in the service that there were a number of experiences that fall into that category. 00:56 “Can you tell me a little bit about your family? What did your parents do?” My father was the regional manager for the National Life Insurance Company in San Antonio; he had a large territory there. He also had his own business before that; a supermarket, and he had businesses in Mexico. My mother’s family was from Mexico and I had two uncles there, uncle Landino and uncle Francisco, he plays a part in my talking with you about this. They were in the wholesale food business and they owned orchards. They owned a very large piece of land and they were professionals. 1:41 Out of the six of us in my family, I am the oldest of the six. All of us have had our own businesses. Here in Grand Rapids I had my-- the youngest of the boys, Larry, he’s been in the business for forty-two years in financing, a family budget service. Anyway, we do work for ourselves with the thinking that if you work for yourself you create jobs for other people and all that. “How long had your father’s family been in Texas?” 1 �My father’s family was in Texas since Texas was part of Mexico. On my mother’s side, again is a tradition tied closely to service to country and community, and she is a descendent of General Santaro Topia, my mother’s name was Sarlospa Topia Vega and she is a great granddaughter of this general Topia who was a governor and military commander of Puebla during the battle of Cinco de Mayo on May 5, 1862. 2:38 His father, General Antonio Topia, joined in the cry for independence when they started the fight for independence from Mexico in September 16, 1810, so we grew up with a written history seeing all these items as part of our family, but never trying to reach that height or trying to imitate anyone. It was just there and I still have the two original letters as part of my legacy. One from the president Benito Juarez of Mexico to my ancestor and one from General Ignacia Zaragoza, who was in charge of the battle on them. 3:18 “In addition to having all that in family history too, your mother had some education too didn’t she?” Yes, as a teacher in a teachers college, Normal College in Saltillo. “Let’s see now, you were born in 1921, when did you finish high school?” In 1940. “What kind of high school did you go to?” I went to Central Catholic High School, it’s a military school—private—It is interesting that you asked me that question now because that was the first time, it was 1938 when I started there, that I could use my own name. All the time, and I have the records, that I was in elementary school in San Antonio, junior high school, for junior high school I was at Washington Irving, still I graduated from there by the name of Mike. They wouldn’t let me use my own name and this was all part of what you—the redevelopment of our country, some of the racism and discrimination. 4:19 It never bothered me because I thought, they don’t know what they’re 2 �doing, but if they want to call me Mike, fine. It wasn’t until I started Central that—I talked to my father and I said, “Dad, this business of Mike has to go”, and he said, “You understand why it happened”, and I said, “Sure”, but when we registered and were paying, it was—you paid, it was not public, I used Francisco after that. 4:45 ‘What proportion of the students at your high school were Mexican American rather than Anglos? Were you kind of unusual there?” Possibly when I was there maybe five or ten percent. “OK, so there were some, but it was still a little bit unusual at that point?” Yes, it required money and that limited a lot of people, just like today. You go to the universities, sometimes you go to a junior college, which gives you more affordability financially, or if you want to go to Harvard, Yale, Columbia or the U of M, you need the money for that. 5:28 “Right, now, what did you do after you finished high school? What did you do next?” Well, I had a scholarship to a business college because of my typing speed and it didn’t take long before jobs were coming in and being offered to people there at the college and so I took a job as a typist for an industrial company, AB Frain Company, and you would type invoices and that again gave me a lot of experience. This is what I did all day long and the invoices were on a roll and being fed into this typewriter. Then you had a comptometer, which is a paperless calculator and so, we would figure out four and a half dozen at twelve dollars a dozen. You multiplied it and put it in the statement or invoice. 6:22 I stayed with that until I went in the service, until December 7th 1941. “On December 7, 1941, how did you learn about the Pearl Harbor attack?” 3 �Every Sunday I would go out hunting, every Sunday morning at dawn with a friend of mine named George Cabina and we would hunt for rabbits just south of San Antonio. It was all country, it was no houses around and we always used .22 rifles and again we had been in military school and we had rifle range so we were familiar with guns. We would shoot the rabbits, clean them, come back and give them to some of the neighbors. Again we were very strong in the depression, not too different from what we’re going through now in our country, but then we went to mass at noon. 7:24 Having gotten up that early, I would come back and go back to bed and this is December 7th. So, I remember that my father came and said, now keep in mind— there is no television, no computers, just radio, and he comes in and said, “Would you get up Pancho, this is some news coming”, and he spoke English, and he said, “They’re talking about Japan”, and I said, “Dad, I’ll get up after while, we don’t have to, I don’t have to get up to go to mass at noon until 11:30 or 11:00”. Well, he came back again and after a while he said, “They’re talking about pearls”, and he said, “There’s a lot of excitement on that ant they’re just giving pieces of information”. So, finally I got up and of course we never heard of Pearl Harbor, we had not heard a number of things that were happening at that time and I would say within two hours, I had this call from my mother’s older brother, more or less a senior member of the family from Monterey, and he said, “You heard the news?” and I said, “Yes, uncle”, and he said, “Your country is being attacked, don’t wait to be called, offer your services”. 8:37 Again, that volunteering service to your country. This is Sunday, and Monday morning I went out—I went to the coast guard, I went to the infantry, which we have—in San Antonio, Fort Sam Houston, Kelly Field, Randolph Field, the military installations around, I went to every branch of the service, the Marines, the Merchant Marines, all of them and the one thing they were telling me at that time was, “We are not taking Mexicans at this time”. 9:03 Again this is—it did not surprise 4 �me too much because I would not—I always felt—I know who I am, so I don’t know what their problem is and here we are being attacked and this is the answer you are getting. I tried every branch of the service and now I did come back and said, “Dad, I did apply and I’m sure they will be calling me”, I think he knew that I was not telling the truth and this came out after I came out of the service, not before. But, I tried again and the same thing was on Tuesday so, I did register. I did not want—I did want to have a serial number of 1 because that meant that I had volunteered. 9:47 Number 3 meant that you were drafted. Nothing wrong with it except that being in military school, we all talked about being prepared to serve. So, with that I came across a newspaper, a full page ad, it was in the San Antonio Express and the San Antonio Light, that’s the name of the newspapers, that if you enlisted, if you had military service and you enlisted now you could remain within the Eighth Service Command, which was the San Antonio region, for the duration of the war. In fact that’s they way you were going in, being called for the duration of the war, not twelve months or anything. So, I went in and I signed up—there was one other person that went in at the same time and his name was Lica Lopez and he signed up, well he stayed in that region the entire war, in the Quartermaster Corps. I went in and the next thing I know I’m at Fort Sam Houston, Texas. I’m there a couple of days and I’m taken over to Dodd Field, which is part of Fort Sam Houston, one of oldest air fields in the country, next to the one, I think in Ohio. 10:52 There I am introduced to two sergeants in the regular army and they said, “We understand that you have experience so, you need to get over here and we need to test you on compliance”, and I said, “Fine”. There were a bunch of other soldiers; it was a close order drill, four by squads, and two by squads at that time. So, with that he said, “Get packed, you’re going to Kelly” so, I went to Kelly Field and I arrived there and he said—oh, while I was still at Fort Sam Houston, I was only 5 �there about four or five days, but I also had to do some work there and I remember this first sergeant, who I saw again after I came out of the service, and he was a typical first sergeant that you expect to see—big pot belly, a big guy and a big voice that didn’t need any assistance to be heard, and he called me and he said, “Now you go over to that little building over there, it was no bigger than a one stall garage, and he said, “You’ll find some brown bags in there, fill them up with one pound of what’s in those barrels”. 12:03 So, that’s what I was doing and it was Saltpeter so, Saltpeter in those bags was taken and mixed in with the food, with the mashed potatoes, and that was to keep the sex drive down in the soldiers. I did not know this when I first started hearing about it even before I left Fort Sam Houston and it got to be kind of a joke, and they said, ‘Where did you end up?” And I said, “In that shack over there filling one pound bags”, and they said, “Did you get into it yourself?” And I said, “No, they told me what it was about”, but that was part of the army life at that time. 12:42 Well, from there I went to Kelly Field and I arrived there with this other fellow and the first sergeant comes out and he said, “Now you’re in the air corps”, there was no air force at the time, and he said, “You are a squadron leader, each one of you” and he said, I think, “You have 20 men and they’re coming in”, when he said, “coming in”, the draft was on, a nationwide draft, and it means that they were arriving in trains, entire trains and you’re talking to people who don’t want to be there. So, with that he said, “There’s a train coming in”, and he told me to go meet them and he said, “You have four people here now that have been with us two weeks and each one is your flight leader, platoon sergeant”. 13:36 So, I talked to them and they just kept telling me, “We don’t want to be here” , and I said, “Well, I’m in charge and you’re going to do it the air corps way or you’ll do it my way”. I learned this from ROTC and they didn’t know what I was talking about right away, but they knew it was business now. So, with that, I divided 200 people arriving into fifty 6 �each and each one would get these guys. We were in charge of taking these new recruits to get shots, haircuts, their clothing, teach tem how to march, take them out on the rifle range, and a couple of incidents, and this is why the word I use “snafu”, you start seeing mix up. 14:25 We did not have enough rifles and we were using two by fours in some cases to demonstrate how to march and carry a rifle. There was a grenade range there at Kelly and it was simply an area that was surrounded by some sandbags and on one side was like a deep pit, a ravine, and you had four grenades and so, they gave me the four grenades and they said, “Do you know how to use them?” I said, “Well, yes, you pull the pin and get rid of it”, and so with that I took the four squad leaders and showed them how to do it—you have the guys watch you—we only had one grenade, and then you throw it over. Well, one of the guys got sick and I took his place so, I’m standing there, like we are here, and I said, “the rest of you just watch and you’re not going to do this now, here’s the grenade, you pull the pin like this and you drop it”, and I gave it to the fellow and I said, “Now you do the same thing like that”. 15:29 As I’m talking, the next thing I hear from him is “Like this sarge?” and he’s pulled the pin, and we’re standing and the last thing I wanted to do was get him excited or anything and he sensed right away that something was very wrong and I grabbed his hand and he wouldn’t open it so, I kneed him pretty badly, I must have raised him off the ground a good eight inches and I got it and threw it and it exploded. 15:58 then I went, that afternoon when I got through, I went to the headquarters and I talked to the first sergeant and I said, “Sergeant, I have to report, we had a problem at the grenade range” and he’s joking and he said, “with one grenade?” “Yeah, with one grenade”. He said, “What happened?” Well, here comes the colonel from the office when he heard me saying we had a problem and he said, “Why did you have a grenade?” And I said, “Well, I was given four of them” and he turns to the first sergeant and said, “That was supposed to been stopped two weeks 7 �ago, no more grenades.” 16:28 That was another thing, the word just did not get down quick enough. On the shots—you would just hear moans at night from all these guys that were getting these shots and some day you can see my record of them for that time for yellow jaundice, for yellow fever, for a number of them, but what they would do was they would take all these soldiers and they had just a jacket, I was trying to think of the name of it, it was OD work clothes and they would tie it around their waist and we would be marching, going to this building and when we got close to the building it went down like a funnel and as you got inside this corridor on either side were small windows and there were medics there I guess, I don’t think they were doctors, but these guys would go in with their hands on their hips like this and as they went by, they would get a shot in one arm and a shot in the other arm. 17:26 By the time they got to the end of the hall, some of them were in pretty bad shape from the pain and swelling. The regular army guys would be standing outside and they would start joking to these guys and say, ”Aw, don’t worry about it, when you get to the end look out for the square needle” and the guys, some of them would pass out. It was bad enough they were going through all of this, but these are the experiences that I said are totally unexpected, some of them you can laugh at. 18:05 From there I did go and finish my training of all these guys. We had a kitchen, we had a—it was a village and we were between Kelly Field and at Kelly Field they also had the enlisted men’s barracks, it was called and English name, Buckingham Palace. They told us to look at it and it was of course very fancy that you had telephone booths with an easy chair and they told us right away, “That’s not for you” so, they took us to this place where you had cots and drill grounds and that. 18:43 From there—we had people there from all walks of life. There was one fellow from Wisconsin and he asked me, “Do you know a printing shop here in San Antonio where I can get something printed?” I said, “Sure, I have an uncle that’s in that” so, I gave him the address and he sent 8 �somebody out because we couldn’t get off base, but he was very resourceful and he had a sideways cross, now they were taking everybody, there was no discrimination in that. Well, he had some cards printed and he sent them all to Milwaukee and saying, “Your son is in service, remember him in your prayers and don’t forget to send him a little gift”, and he was getting mail back of everything you could imagine on this so, he was getting candy, he was getting clothes, he was getting gloves, money and he just kept it up as long as I knew him and he was in there. 19:45 These are developments of what was going on when they were bringing in the civilian part, because this was civilian army. “How long were you doing that drill instructor work?” From October until January of 1943. This is about; I think it was January of 1943 when I arrived at Baton Rouge, Louisiana for the JAG School. Interviewer: “Tell us how you wound up going there.” By working, we couldn’t get off the base and I think you had to wait two or three months before we could get off, but on Sunday—my record of typing was recorded and I remember that this officer came in, I think it was the officer of the day, and called my name and said, “We need some help at headquarters”, and they wouldn’t ask you, you were told. 20:42 I said, “What is it about?” He said, “Well, you can type”, and this is what was used. So, as I’m typing, here comes this, it was like a Western Union teletype with all the information of schools that were available and as I was looking at them and I asked the officer of the day, “Is this available for anyone?” and he said, “Yes, did you see something you like?” I said, “Well, not yet”, I went to a military institute and I didn’t want military. I wanted a different experience. Pretty soon here come the Adjutant General and Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge and I had never been there, but I asked him I said, “ Is that one available?” And he said, “Do you want to go there?” And I said, 9 �“Yes” and he said, “Go pack, you leave in the morning”. So, I left by bus and I went to Baton Rouge and arrived there at night and they put us into the stadium, it was a very big stadium and I remember we were just beginning to fall asleep, it was getting dark and we heard this growl, a tremendous growl right outside the windows, at least it felt that way, and we started to wonder what the heck was going on , if it was a joke or something. 22:00 It was a growl and it just didn’t—it continued crying out so, we find out it’s a Bengal Tiger which is the mascot of LSU. I was there and we went through quite a bit of training and I received my first promotion from there, PFC. “What kind of training were you getting?” Army regulations. We went through everything that’s covered by it and it was there that I first found out what provisional meant when it is assigned to a unit. When a designation is attached to a unit it means that group is expendable. You’re going in there and chances are you are going to die and you can be replaced by anyone regardless of rank on that so, It’s very important for the higher echelons in command to know that they don’t have to look for another sergeant to replace a sergeant, they can put in a warrant officer, they can put in anyone they want to get the job done. 23:03 I finished there in January, I think it was a two or three month deal on that and upon graduation form that they assigned me to Altus, Oklahoma and I was called in, with my bags and everything, and they said, “Well, you’re leaving on the train and here are your tickets”. No, on the bus and he said, “Here are your tickets and ten dollars” and he said, “You’ll get the rest of your money and everything when you arrive”. Altus, I didn’t know where Altus was, but it is across Texas and that is a long way. So, I get to Altus again about late afternoon and I couldn’t find—I didn’t have a place to stay. They didn’t tell me where to report or anything and I had to wait until the next day to leave by train to Altus from Wichita Falls, Texas so, I went to a 10 �military policeman and I told him I had these orders that said I as supposed to be in Altus and he said, “The train doesn’t leave until tomorrow”, and he said, “Have you been to Altus before?” I said, “No”, and he said, “You are going to want to get out of there as soon as you can, if you can, if you can stay on the train, just stay on the train.” He was familiar with it and he said, “If you need a place to stay, you can stay in jail here with us” so, I slept that night in the jail. The next morning they take me to the station and there’s a coal burning engine and one car attached to it and that car is divided in half with a curtain and It’s passengers and freight and the back of that car is open and doesn’t have a door and this is wintertime. 24:53 So, I’m the only passenger— we get on that and start going and it didn’t take long before the smoke and everything starts getting inside and is just swirling inside and the cold. Finally we arrive at Altus and all that is there is like a four-stall garage and no one is there. It’s raining and there’s mud all over the place, but then a guy comes over from the engine, they didn’t have anybody else on that car, and he says, “This is where you get off”. There’s a ladder to walk on from the train to this garage, which is very close, it’s about ten or twelve feet away from the rail line, but nothing else, it’s allopen and mud. 25:42 So, I got out and waited there and finally a Jeep came up and I got on there to go to the Altus air base. As we started getting there, I could see all these barracks, one story, not two story, but they’re tied down with cable, cable goes over the roof of it and is anchored down in the ground. I guess that gives you a clue that there was a lot of wind out there. The outfit I joined there was UC 78 planes made of canvas, all silver, they had twin engines and were used for training navigators. 26:11 I would say that within a week—one of the things, there was “Lonesome George” that use to be on television, I don’t know if you remember him from early television. He played the guitar and had a kind of deadpan face. Well, he was stationed there, he was an officer in training there and the only reason I remember is because I 11 �would hear him play the guitar once in a while on that. One of the days that we woke up, we had quite a storm and the next day we went out there and there were just shreds, all these planes had been cut to shreds by hail. There were just pieces of it. 26:56 “Now what kind of work were you doing on that base?” Well, being a—administration—in other word I had gone to school and I was in headquarters again. And I usually ended up in headquarters because of that, which meant they put me at the center of information. While I was there, I received two promotions, Corporal and then Sergeant, but on the air base they sent a group of mechanics who repaired all the planes and some of them, they just tore them down and put new canvas on them. Then there was another opportunity to go to school, except I had to give up rank, which meant I had to give-up money. So, I went to that, it was to engineering school at Oklahoma A&M, today’s Oklahoma State. Engineering, I really was not looking forward to it, engineering was not exactly my best grades in school, but I signed up for it, actually I took anything to get out of Altus by then. 28:01 I was there at Oklahoma A&M and pretty soon they expanded the program, the person in charge of that, his brother was in charge of the water works in San Antonio and he had seen my records and one time he said “Hi” to me. One time when I was in the office there in the headquarters, he said, “Do you want to leave Oklahoma?” And I said, “Where to?” He said, “We’re opening up an expanded branch of this in Peoria, Illinois, at Bradley University, at that time it was Bradley Polytechnic Institute, so I said, “Sure, what’s the change?” He said, “No, it’s engineering and it will be accelerated”. Again, I signed up for that and I was in charge of the group. We arrived in Peoria at the railroad station. We were the first soldiers there since World War 1, so the whole town was out waiting to give us a welcome. 28:54 they have a brewery there, a beer and I forget the name of it, maybe Pabst Blue Ribbon, the other one is Hiram Walker whiskey and of 12 �course they were greeting us with bottles of each all up and down the street. We were on the streetcar coming out and the bands were playing and of course this was a surprise to us, we didn’t expect anything like that. We get there and they are not prepared to receive us, they just were putting everything together, their food, their cafeteria, the lodging, we didn’t have any mattresses for about a week. That means that we had the springs and double-decker beds, but no mattresses on them, but they greeted us nicely and the first thing they informed us he said, “This program that you have here now is scheduled for you to finish four years of college in eighteen months. 29:46 Outside of Sunday morning, we were going to school until eleven o’clock at night right around the clock and I don’t know how many classes. The math, I was able to memorize it and that got me through. I think there were two hundred or four hundred, I forget on that, but half of them washed out at the end of sixty days. Ninety days another group washed out and it wasn’t too long after that that they decided to close the program and I washed out about that time in chemistry. 30:15 Even though I had taken the course three times, the exam three times, the professor said, “Just keep with it and you’ll be able to do it”. Well, I had gone through algebra, calculus, integral calculus, geometry, this was besides the history and everything else we were taking, the physics and so on. 30:36 I said, “No, I think this is as much as I can go on this thing”. They had just taken, about a month before, the entire group had been taken to a hospital and they were all unconscious, they rushed us in ambulances and cars—food poisoning or something. Also, I lost a lot of weight—some of the best bunch of people I ever met, were part of that group—a lot of talent. 31:00 We had one fellow by the name of Jimmy Webb and on his duffle bad he had his initials JEW, which was when we were fighting Hitler and they were persecuting the Jews so, I remember him from that. The thing was—we had a professor of physics, we called him “Rapid Rudy” and he liked nothing more than to really show you how 13 �much he knew, at least that’s the impression he gave us. Keep in mind, I am talking about twenty year olds, but he would start at the upper corner of the blackboard and start writing formulas right across and it seemed like the blackboard was twenty or thirty feet wide, and from that he would then turn around and say, “Alright get the answer”, now, we did not use computers, we used logarithm tables, we used slide rules and Jimmy Webb was a very quiet individual and he would come up with the answer in less than five minutes. 32:03 We would time the guy and we were all looking at our logarithm tables and the slide rule and so on and he had the answer. It turns out that his family were army people, his father had been in artillery, his grandfather had been in artillery and they worked with math all the time and I think he must have had the logarithm tables memorized or something, but that was one of the individuals that I met there that were very nice. 32:28 When they closed that program I ended up going to Jeffersonburg, Missouri, one of the worst places I have ever been in, but before that, the group that ended there was one of the last groups that washed out before I did. When they closed the program, they ended up in California under special training. They ended up in two invasions in the Pacific and I would say all of them were killed, just about all of them because there was a reunion called at Bradley after the war and I was unable to go, but I think four showed up, and they said they would not hold another one. 33:06 One was this person who came in and had half of his face blown off and he had artificial work that had been done and they said it was just too much on that. That was the group out of Bradley. From there I went to Jefferson Barracks, again I’m a private now, the next thing I know I’m on KP, kitchen police, which means that you work in the kitchen, but you get up, I think they wake you up at 3:00 AM in the morning and you start going to the kitchen and peeling potatoes and getting everything done. Then you have breakfast late, but then you go back to bed. 33:45 You will have to get up again to clean up 14 �everything about 10:00. Well, I did that for about a week or so and coming back to the barracks one day, there’s a notice on there that they need firemen and anything is better than what I’m doing so, I went and told them I would take the job and they didn’t ask you if you had gone to school to learn that so, I took it and I was in charge of three two story barracks and the dental clinic. It didn’t take long, I’m rushing around, I had never used a coal furnace at all and I didn’t know how it burned or kept. So anyway, I’m putting coal into it and the dental clinic is about a block away, so I go to the dental clinic and you have people sleeping in the three barracks, but nothing in the dental clinic so, I figure I don’t have to come back to the dental clinic so, I will just load this thing up, which I did. It was a separate building adjacent, tied into the clinic, but it was the furnace, big doors and I just loaded it up and I remember it had a whistle on top, an emergency whistle, and I just leaded it up and I started running back and forth from one barracks to another and even carrying hot coals because they were going out on me. 35:07 finally my turn ended and another guy came in and he started, he knew what to do. I went to my barracks and went to sleep and they came and woke me up and this buck sergeant said, “You’re to report to headquarters”, and I go over there and this major, he said, “You were in charge last night of the—as the fireman?” I said, “Yes” and he said, “Would you go look at the dental clinic and come back and report to me what happened?” Fine, I go out there and there are a lot of fire engines around there and I go in and there’s steam coming out of the toilets and where the furnace was, the windows had collapsed, they had just melted off, the whistle that was on top of the thing was on the floor, the whole furnace, there was no structure to the furnace, it was all melted down on the floor and where the whistle had been, you see a hole had been blown through the concrete roof. 36:10 They were asking me, “What did you do?” I said, “I put coal into the thing”, and they said, “How much coal did you put in?” and the guy s were there, the 15 �doctors and dentists and they said, “You got to come and look at this”, everything that was open had steam coming out of it, the toilets, everything was steam coming out of it. 36:32 “Did you put coal into the furnace or just into the building?” No, the furnace was a big box and it had doors and you could open them up and put in the coal, and the shovels were about this wide so, I just loaded it up with coal and when I left it, it wasn’t on fire, it wasn’t burning, but it was—the coals were underneath—I guess it was that pretty soon everything got going on it and what was left was about this high on the floor, everything had melted. 36:56 So, I go back to the major and he said, “I saw it, now tell me how did you do it?” I explained to him and he said, “Have you ever used coal before?” I said, “No”, and he said, “Why did you volunteer for the job?” I said, “To get out of KP”, and he said, “Where were you rated?” and I said, “San Antonio”, and he said, “What did you use?” I said, “Natural Gas, we would open up—light up the match and that’s it”, and he said, “Ah, you better go pack, you’re leaving right away”. 37:27 So, he sent me to North Carolina and I was there for a while and I was drilling when they asked me to do that again. Then I went to Miles Standish, Camp Miles Standish outside of Boston. That was another experience, it was—they had a lot of big boulders where I arrived there, two story barracks and this must have been the latter part of April or early part of May, it’s part of my service record, but there were paratroopers and some of these paratroopers, they had just a strip of hair going down the middle of their head like that, but they would get up at the second story barracks level and you had stairs coming down and a little platform, and they would jump from there and they would just roll, hit the ground, roll and get up again and do it again. They were having a good time and I was very tempted to ask them to let me do that, just out of curiosity to see how they were doing it, but that’s one group that I saw there. 38:34 The other, we had a Blimp that almost came down on top of us there. There was a 16 �lot of fog and I remember it pulled up very quickly. It just got away and I think it almost came down on top of some of the buildings there, but from there they took us to Boston and this is all happening very rapidly, it fact my entire time in the service was very busy and we went to Boston, it was at night or late evening, anyway it was dark and they got us onto this ship and they said that it was the ship that the king and queen of England used for their vacation, we never saw those quarters, I don’t know what they were like, but we started going down and down until we got down to the metal, iron, and then they gave us some hammocks. They were all hanging on a post and you would take it and hang it to the other post m but these hammocks were made for people, I think, who were four feet tall and as we were going out the next day, I didn’t hear them move or anything, but we could hear the water right below us. 39:54 So, we were down pretty close to the outside of the ship I guess. The hammocks didn’t work at all, I felt like my legs were being bent backwards so, I didn’t use that. Then of course, we had water on the floor and it was moving around on that. Finally when we went out we were going, we could tell from the sun, we were going –the sun was on out left so, we were going East, ya, we were going East, coming out, it was on this side of us. 40:30 We were in a convoy and as far as we could see, it was just ships on that, a lot of them. “When was it? May of 1944, was that it?” Yes, I arrived in Liverpool on May 15th of 1944. “A couple of things before we get there. First of all, were you assigned to a unit at this point or were you simply going over as an individual replacement?” I think—as a private you were not told too much on that—we were just a group of soldiers that were there, I don’t know if we were replacements or— 17 �“You were not with a particular company with its own officers, noncoms and regular group?” No, not at that time. “Then when you were crossing the ocean, you were with a convoy etc. What was the weather like?” It was not as smooth as I would have liked to have seen, but it was not as bad as coming back. That is another—and I’ll get into it. What we did see for example, was most of the convoy, the number ships were to our right, we had some to the left, but we could see the end of it, maybe four or five rows of ships. Then we had about four deaths on that and they took the soldiers and they put a piece of metal between their legs, I don’t know what it was on that, and they put them on a piece of wood on the side of the ship, there was an American flag, and they tipped that board and the body just slid down into the ocean. 42:06 There were four that died. “What did they die from?” I don’t know, as a private, like I say, you don’t get to see too much, you just go there, but what also was of interest was when we had a drill as were to go when you were out—if you were out on top—I don’t think you could get everybody that was on that ship, or any of these ships, on the top deck. All of a sudden we started hearing what sounded like wailing dogs, the destroyers, that sound that they make, and the next thing we knew their was an explosion and it was quite a bit of distance from us, but it was submarines. 42:52 they blew quite a few of the ships , all of a sudden you would hear some explosion and you saw the smoke on that, and these destroyers going in and out and dropping their depth charges. This one time, I’m on the deck because it was my turn to get up there, and we had the Rabbi, we had a minister, we had a priest, they had told us if you wanted to go the confession or council or anything and I remember all of a sudden 18 �somebody yelled, “A submarine”, and these ships were actually not that close together, but all of a sudden here’s a periscope, right to our right on that and I thought, “My gosh, it’s going to crash into us”, but you could see the periscope, you couldn’t miss it at all so, then they started yelling for us to get to the—“Catholics over here”—and I’m catholic so, the others called the Jewish people and everyone—so, were there and this priest tells me something I had never heard and I wished I’d known about it—he said, “You’re getting general absolution”, which means you don’t have to confess your sins or say anything, all your sins are forgiven type of thing. 44:12 I’m thinking, “Why didn’t they tell us before we get to confession and sweat blood sometimes because you took somebody’s pencil or something”, but that was another experience I had. The submarine went down, it disappeared, but the destroyers came right in and dropped depth bombs and followed through and all that. We arrived in Liverpool, England on May 15th of 1944. If you can keep in mind the date, and keep in mind that on June 6th, less than thirty days, at dawn, I’m in Normandy at Omaha Beach. When we landed again, we went to, I think, Uxbridge, England and went into this barracks, they assigned us to it—again, we nothing about the invasion, we knew nothing that was going on and there were trucks and tanks all over the place if you looked around the streets and I thought it was just the war. 45:12 A lot of buildings were destroyed, you could tell that, but as we get to Uxbridge they take us to this barracks, it was a very small room and they had a double cot in there and they said, “Well, you better go here”, they were all English soldiers and they said, “Come over here and get your biscuits”, and I thought we were going to eat. Ignorance is so nice until you find reality, but we go in and they give us two cushions and they were canvas, and that was your mattress. You put them in these beds that were made of scrap wood that was what they could afford to do it. Then they gave us some coal in a bag, it wasn’t coal because the size of the stove was about—almost the size of a 19 �large corn flakes box , it wasn’t very big and this material they gave us looked like slag and we never could get it started and I think it was a nice gesture to make us feel good. We never got that started, but from there I was called in to work at headquarters again and I went in and I started doing some typing and here I saw a message come through from the 392nd Signal company, the company—and of course I could see the records and everything else was there and they had just come across Africa and had gone into Sicily, Italy and now they were brought into England. I couldn’t get, even in my wildest imagination, that I was that close to the invasion or why they were there, but it was a communications company and there again, I had gone from the infantry at Sam Houston, to Dodd Field, the air force, to Kelly Field, the Air force, then the air corps., and now I’m getting into the signal corps. 47:06 Then I was with the JAG while I was in school. I thought for a second, “Well they have to be experienced, they have to have training” so, I asked the sergeant, the first sergeant, “Can I join this outfit?” and he said, “What do you know about them?” and I said, “Nothing, I just started working here this morning” , and he said, “How long have you been in England?” And I said, “I just arrived yesterday”, and he said, “Ok, let me check on it”. It was very disarming and the next thing I know, he comes over and he called me and he said, “Come with me”, and I went in and he was a one star general in there and he said, “I need to ask you some questions”, “What do you know about that outfit and why do you want to join it?” “Where are you from?” Everything you could imagine and finally I said, “Look, all I’m doing here is typing”, and he said, “I hope you’re not competing with everyone else that’s here getting the job done” and fortunately the sergeant spoke up and said, “He’s one of the fastest typers we’ve had”, and the general said, “Ok, you can wait outside”. Well, I went back and started working and pretty soon here comes the first sergeant and he said, “Pack your bags, you’re leaving for the 392nd”, and I didn’t ask any questions so, I got my duffle bag and I 20 �went on a train to London and there I had to transfer to, I can’t remember, but I ended up in the Windsor Castle area. 48:36 While I was there in London, I saw a fellow selling some stuff and it looked like Tacos and anything of food, because we’re not getting enough food and the food that was given to us on the ship coming across was lamb, boiled and that was not exactly what I was used to coming out of Texas where you have a lot of meat you know. So, I bought these Tacos and I don’t know what I paid him for it, and I took one bite into it, I don’t know what was in it, but it was very dry, almost like sawdust and I didn’t say anything, I wrapped it up and put it in my duffle bag, but that would give you an indication as to the conditions in England at that time, they were in very dire straights from all this bombing they had gone through. 49:18 So, they took me to the 392nd and the person I was sent to was Chuck Lyons from Lansing, he was the teletype chief and he interviewed me and he said, “Ok, you can report and get your paper work done and so on”, and the next day I’m reporting to him. Chuck Lyons, he is in a building where—what’s the name of the Princess? She married a Prince—she’s been with Weight Watchers advertising now-- 50:01 “Sarah Ferguson”. Yes, Sarah Ferguson, where she’s been living—this was a castle, but we just went in the side door and that room is where they had the teletypes, and by the way, at this point we were living in perimital tents and there were cots all around and we’re in there, and the next morning was— that evening I went and checked on there and I talked to some of the guys and they said, “You are going to report to Chuck in the morning”, and the next morning I woke up and there’s barb wire around each one of all these tents—again, part of the war and I didn’t think much about it— So, the next morning this fellow says, “I’m your escort”, and it was an English Commando on that and he had boots that had iron, like a horse shoe, on the heel and he was in his full uniform 21 �so, he escorted us to this house, this castle where they were, and Chuck said, “Ok, come over and let me test you out” so, he sat me at this teletype and told me to take a little while and get familiar with it. 51:26 He said, “have you ever used a teletype?” I said, “No”, and he said, “It’s the same as a typewriter” so, I practiced for about twenty minutes or so and then he said, “Why don’t you go ahead and start typing this” so, I started typing and it jammed and I didn’t think I was nervous so, I tried it again and it jammed again and then he came over and he said, “Well, leave that one alone, come over here”, and he put me on another teletype and I started typing on that on and that one jammed and he comes over to me and he said, “Ok, what’s your typing speed? What’s the highest you ever hit?” I said, “A hundred and seventeen words a minute” and he was from Lansing and we never met afterwards and he said, “Let me tell you what’s happened. The first one you used was the American Teletype and that can only type seventy-two words a minute. The one you’re using now is English and that can only go to seventy-seven, you have no problem, your with me in my outfit”. 52:25 This was the 392nd Signal Company Aviation. So, with that we started getting ready. We were escorted back and forth for the short time that I was there. This commando, at one point he said, “----------Espanol, Do you speak Spanish?” I said, “Ya”, and he said, “I’ve been studying some”, and I am wondering if he has family from Spain or something, and he said, “I’m looking forward to getting to Spain or Latin America after the war” so, we hit it off pretty well. So, at one point we exchanged a gift. I don’t know what I gave him, it was food or something and he gave me a book of his training, which I still have and it is quite an unusual book, but he had two pages with a piece of paper in there and he said, “Now, you remember these two items, One of them is, if you ever capture a person and you don’t want to stay around, here’s what you do—just find a sapling and put one leg around it and the other one underneath and have him sit down and he cannot get out of that”. 53:36 “The 22 �other is, if you are ever captured and you want to escape and it’s a matter of life and death, you get a stick and make a point on it, you can use your teeth, make a point on it and you drive it through their neck and up into their palate”. This all happened in a very short time, but he gave me this book which has a number of things to help you. We’re talking about staying alive at that time. The thinking and mentality and so on. 54:05 From there, about two days later, I woke up with a tremendous problem breathing and they had intentionally thrown tear gas into our area, testing us and of course with a drilling I had done, we all had our gas masks with us, and at one point I smelled it and I just put it on and blew out and tightened the straps and these other guys that were there from the 392nd that had come across Africa, they were choking, they were running into the barbed wire and the barbed wire is the kind that they had for cutting. 54:47 “Razor wire”. Ya, and they were grabbing it trying to get out and they were—out of a sound sleep, you’re being gassed and not knowing what’s going on—the next day I started talking with them and I said, “You guys didn’t put your gas masks on”, they were angry and they said, “We don’t know how to do that”, and I said, “What do you mean you don’t know? Your coming out of Africa, Sicily, Italy and you couldn’t put your gas mask on?” And I asked them, “Did you get any training?” and they said, “Well, we’re from New Jersey Bell, Ma Bell, and our training was to put on spikes, climb a telephone pole and they took us out to a point in New Jersey and sent us out to Egypt, Cairo”. You would hear them talk Cairo, and all these places they had been, but they knew nothing about gas masks and then I knew—I thought, “Oh, my gosh, what did I get myself into?” 55:38 If they couldn’t use a gas mask, what’s going to happen when it’s time to shoot a gun or something? Well, it didn’t take us long to find out. On the evening of—by the way we’re a mobile outfit, and we had a teletype cryptographer’s radio, telephone, everything in 23 �communications, there were over thirteen hundred people as part of this battalion and many of them had come in as a group, they had been together for so long that the Lieutenant Colonel, which is the highest rank you could have in the battalion, I think he was a 2nd Lieutenant when they got into Egypt, and they were technicians—just out of the ordinary, they were just—they could build, they could do a lot of things with wiring and communications and radio and everything else. 56:37 so, when we started getting ready I see they had like a pick-up truck and a small box, almost the size of a camper that you see there that they loaded on the box and that was the mobile office. That would carry some of the guys that had Morse code, the Teletype, photographers, we had airplanes, we had Jeeps, we had motorcycles couriers, it was a pretty complete outfit. 57:06 So, the evening of June 5th, that afternoon they told us we’re ready to go and that means you just grab your equipment—we had a gas mask, we had ammunition, we had carbines, we had our food, and we had a raincoat. I don’t know who let the contract to make that thing, but we wore that more than anything else, it was just big heavy rubber. We get to Southampton and we’re being loaded, this is late afternoon of the 5th and getting dark. There I remember this one fellow, he had drumsticks and while we were waiting for quite a while for the ships and everything else, the trucks, there were many ships for our outfit, I don’t know how many there were. We didn’t get to see what some people write about a half a mile away—I cannot tell you that, I can tell you what I saw right next to me. 58:16 This fellow, he had drumsticks and he would sit there while we’re waiting and use his helmet and he would play with the drumsticks. I guess he was a professional. He had a phonograph about this size and there were some small records that he could play on that, but these small phonographs were the ones that were dropped behind the lines with messages for the maquis, for the underground. I learned that later, but there was one song they would play, “I’m going to move way out on the 24 �edges of town cause I don’t want anybody always foolin around—I wanna buy a refrigerator cause I don’t want the ice man comin’ around—I don’t want anybody foolin’ around”, and he would play that over and over—you can see that I can still remember it, and so then we started getting on the ship. We got on the ship and started moving out, but we couldn’t see anything because it was dark and then as we started getting out and could see more of a contrast than light because this is very early in the morning—as far as you could see—ships—there’s no end to them just like someone was actually painting them out there. 59:33 then all of a sudden we heard the planes coming over with the white stripes on them, markings. “Taking paratroopers over, yes”. Well, this is what I found out later, we had some people from out outfit that landed there with the paratroopers or before. They were the ones who guided— “The pathfinders”. Pathfinders, they come into play later too, how these guys joined us. So, we’re moving on the thing and the next thing that we know is we stop and they start dropping netting over the side. Now, I had gone through all this training of climbing on that at Kelly Field and everyplace, but then those nets were held by two posts, telephone poles, and you go one side and down the other and I remember that there was a fellow by the name of Pelletier in our outfit and he was from Boston, quite a heavy guy and older than we were, maybe twenty nine or thirty, but quite heavy and he didn’t want to go over the side because he was afraid so, they put him on the side for awhile and then they asked us to go over. :54 Next we’re getting on these barges where the front drops— “LCVP’s, the little landing craft?” 25 �Ya, landing craft so, they put one of our trucks in there and they put a jeep in there and then they want us to start getting in, getting over the side of the net. Just about then there was this terrible explosion to my right and I think it was a battleship of some size that started firing because we’re quite a distance away, I didn’t realize we were that far away from the beach. They start firing and I remember turning around and saying, “What the heck’s wrong with ya?” They were firing so close, like they would listen—it was just a reaction now of this. 1:44 “At this point did you know, any of you, what you were supposed to be doing and why you were there? Had they told you anything yet?” That is why I refer to this whole operation as “snafu”, July 4th, 2008. This is about as close as I can tell you about what happened on that—no, we did not know. We did not know of example, the biggest thing that happened right there is, as they dropped this net and we started going over, was that it was too short. “Oh… that is not good”. It was too short by say eight feet short. “So, you had to jump off the net down into the boat?” The thing was, every training we had we went up and down a net that was fixed. This net for example, the ship was rocking and it would go out and then slam into the ship, and your loaded down with so much gear. 2:43 They started going down and some of the guys would get at the end and there are more coming down and more coming down and loading and that was a real slaughter of guys right there. Some were floating between the ship and being crushed and I could see again, heads bobbing around there and all kinds of pieces of people. I started going down and I remember this one guy who was next to me—I don’t know who was running those things, the Navy or Coast Guard—I don’t know who they were—sailors, let’s put it that way. 26 �3:19 Anyway, I’m telling this one guys, jump, jump, and I was watching and this guy finally jumped, but he ended up straddling the landing barge, it had a little divider type of thing and he ended up straddling that and that was the end of him, he had to be put back on the ship. They tied him with a big heavy rope and got him over the side and fortunately got him down. When the fellow tells me to jump, jump and he starts yelling and he says jump, jump, and all this time I’m waiting for the ships to come together and the net to be in the right spot and I turned around and let him have about ten different swear words in a row and he was surprised when he heard me swearing that much, but I finally managed to jump, but I was on the inside. 4:17 We started moving out and we were getting shells and we were getting shrapnel very quickly because the Germans were within firing—we couldn’t see the land yet clearly. “Was it still dark?” Yes, it was dark, it was still—you could see the flashes and hear the firing. The firing, once it started, I don’t think it stopped day and night. Just like when you go down town to the 4th of July and you hear the fireworks start, except it didn’t stop. 4:55 There were ships and planes going over and all kinds of fighting going on, but as we started moving out, I remember thinking, “Why didn’t somebody think of hanging mattresses or something on the sides of this thing”, because it would ricochet, if someone was firing the shrapnel—you could hear it. “Bounce around inside the landing craft?” Guys would get hurt. I did not get hurt in any of the things like that, but as we got close to the beaches, the Colonel was in the jeep with the first sergeant, with a British liaison, which again goes back to—not a very tall fellow, and he was strictly “hot dog”, he would not wear a helmet. He had a beret on and he had a pistol that hung to his side and tied down to his leg, very much of a cowboy and the muzzle of the gun in the holster was down just to his knee and this is what was 27 �happening there. 6:00 All of our equipment by the way, had been prepared to run under water for quite a distance. I’m trying to think of the material they used, it was like Vaseline. “ An oil or grease kind of stuff, yes”. Then they had the exhaust pipe and an extension on that and all the wires had cosmoline, all the wires had this material because, you don’t see it today, but the rain we had yesterday. Most of the cars would not have been running at that time because the wires—the water would get right into the wires and stop any electricity from running properly. 6:44 As we get closer to the beach head here’s this Jeep in front, then the one truck—communications, I don’t know what it was, but I’m guessing it was a teletype, but we had more than one piece of equipment like that on other landing barges from other ships that were also taking off, but we didn’t know who to follow or anything. 7:11 There were no directions at all and I don’t think anybody knew— there’s land, get on it, and this is about the way the thinking was. Most of the thinking, just generalizing, was “We’re going over there, we’re going to kill Hitler, and we’re going to come back”, and that is about the general thinking. Well, as we started moving out then we started getting closer to the beach head and I found out later it was Omaha Beach on that, it’s part of my record, but as we started getting in there were a lot of tripod obstacles with bombs on them and I think a lot of them were being set off by the Germans firing. 7:57 We couldn’t see the Germans—could not see the enemy at all, not at Omaha Beach. They were shooting from fortification that they had—I’m trying to think of the name. “Pillboxes and bunkers”. Pillboxes, but they were just shooting out of those openings they had in them and they were just raking the beachhead, plus all these mines. We started getting close, I mentioned to you before that John Wayne was not there, none of the movie stars were there and I know they have done a 28 �good job on it and it was necessary, but we didn’t know where to go. 8:37 I remember as the Jeep goes off, there was a plank with holes in it and they use those for making emergency landing fields, which they built right there on top afterwards to land some planes, but as our landing barge starts going on that thing, the front drops on there and the next thing as they start to drive off it just goes like this and the Jeep goes underwater. 9:14 The only thing that was on top was the exhaust and the beret of this English guy was spinning on top and even then with everything that’s going on, the fighting, what you are seeing, humans all over the place, insides, everything is all over, I remember things like that. I think it was partly to lighten up a little bit because there was nobody there to hold your hand or anything. 9:46 “At the point where you’re landing, were there infantry already on the beach?” The ones that were there, ya there was some infantry, but a lot of them were against the wall— we couldn’t go anywhere. “Do you have a sense of how far it was from the water line to the sea wall?” Well, from the edge of the water to the sea wall, not over 100 feet. “So it was pretty close?” Then when we started coming in to try to find a place and we’re coming through for example where there are a lot of bodies just floating all over the place, like they were asleep, a lot of them together, they were just floating and pieces of people and so on. 10:30 then as we started getting—I do not know to this day how I ended up on the beach because the next thing I know this Jeep is on there and the truck drove off and the next thing I know is this tremendous explosion, not one, but several and I’m in the sand. Now whether I jumped over the edge of that thing or ended up thrown on the sand and as I’m getting ready to move I hear this guy in Spanish, I don’t know who it was or anything, but it’s just like saying today “Cool manner” and 29 �they use an expression today “awesome” this was at that time and in Spanish, I don’t know who it was, but I heard it right next to me on the sand and the next thing I heard him next to me and I turn around and he’s got a hole in his helmet. 11:29 I heard the thump of the metal, but it was close. I don’t know who he was, but he spoke Spanish and that’s how he ended up. It was about this time again we were just getting strafed, the machine guns are coming, and we were strafed by some German planes. There was one incident, I had another one later. The next thing is— our logo was painted on our duffle bag and all of our equipment—the orange ace of spades, and I remember at some point I looked up to my right and there’s a Jeep abandoned, it’s got nobody in it and it’s got the orange ace of spades on it so, I yelled, “Hey, one of our equipment”, and I don’t know who I’m yelling at, but these other two guys, I don’t know if they are from my outfit or not, I said, “Lets take it and get out of here”, it was like we were the only ones there—this tremendous fighting going on at this time, you tanks that were supposed to be on the beach sinking before they even get to the beach. 12:33 You’re seeing ships that are coming on shore with almost like a stairs on the side where the infantry would get off on those and they would get in as far as they could and the next thing was this tremendous explosion and the side has been blown off and there are all kinds of supplies being thrown all over the place, cigarettes, food, now we’re on the move on that . 12:59 I didn’t look at it that way, here’s this Jeep and the other guy, I don’t know who drove it, but we jumped into it and started going to the right. There were no maps, nothing to tell us what to do or where to go. 13:17 “ So, you’re just driving along the beach looking for a way up?” Ya, but it didn’t take us long to drive along the beach, we just found a spot that—I don’t know if I yelled or who yelled, “There, there’s an opening”, and we put that four wheel drive Jeep up 30 �there and climbed to the top. We went to Carentan—these little towns, I remember the names— Carentan, Ste Mère Eglise--we did not know where we were going. “This is on D-Day, during the day and you’ve got a Jeep—“ At dawn— “In the morning and the battle was still going on everywhere?” Oh, yes that battle was going on. “So, you just hop in a Jeep and take off across Normandy?” Ya. 14:01 “OK”. It was not across Normandy—it was to get the heck out of the beachhead. Interviewer: “But do you get as far as Ste Mère Eglise in a single day? How far did you-?” Ya, I had to reconstruct it myself a couple of times. So we came to Ste Mère Eglise and I remember we got there and that parachute was still hanging from the church steeple, but I do not remember if there was a body on it. Interviewer: “He actually survived and they took him down”. I was not there for that, but there were paratroopers on the ground there and we’re all in uniform and we were ready to shoot anybody that was not one of us—at least that was our thinking, and we did. So, we kept on driving and we get to Cherbourg. We did receive a message the short time that I was out—a story of one of the Kennedy’s who had—he was going to bomb Cherbourg because there were submarine pens there and I guess they had loaded this plane—it was a bomb and just full of explosives, the oldest son of the Kennedy’s— “Yes, Joseph”. 31 �He flew alone and I guess it exploded in the air and he was killed. So, I had that story in my mind about Cherbourg, what it was or whether it was supposed to be there, and as we started getting close we saw a little town, as far as I can recall where we were, I didn’t travel around. 15:40 One area we got to, there was a lot of fighting going on and we saw the, what do you call them, guards, houses for the German guards and you walk in and this is where you start going into where the submarine pens were and I got to see it, but the Germans, they were burned and you could smell it, they were still there, the bodies were there—flame throwers. 16:03 “The American didn’t get into Cherbourg until a couple weeks after D-day. So whereever—“ These were Special Forces. “But still…”. These were the ones that we met there and they were the ones who talked to us and said, “Who are you with? Where did you come from?” We said, “Over there and pointed to the beach head”. And he said, “Well, do not use the clicker, the Germans know about it, so don’t use it. Tell the officers to put some mud on their helmets”. They had the rank painted, one bar for Lieutenant or First Lieutenant. “Just tell them to put mud over it because the Germans are picking them off”. I took mine and the other two I had thrown away, but they had given to us a clicker, if we came to an area where we couldn’t see who it was—one click to identify ourselves and you were supposed to answer with two clicks, but the Germans had picked that up so, I threw mine away. 17:19 On the way back we saw the submarine pens, which was a unbelievable place, like an underground city, the thing and the submarines were there on that. 17:32 I think there were one or two and I think they were caught by surprise or whatever, but then trying to get back, one street where we came in and went out, we had left the Jeep and 32 �started walking and then this fellow said, “I think you want to see what’s over there”, and I said, “We can see it from here”. We had to cross a little street and there was shooting coming out and hitting on the cobblestone there and I said, “What do you want us to see?” “A statue”, and there was a statue of somebody—I would like to go back, I have never been back—it could have been Napoleon on horseback or something like that. It had a little fence around it. Just as we’re getting ready—there’s a darn thump and a large bullet hit the horse of the statue and put a hole in it, but anyway we just run across the street and there’s a little book store there and I—we didn’t want to touch anything because we knew there was a lot of what do you call it—bombs? 18:39 “Booby-traps”. Ya, booby-traps. We were very conscious of that, there were booby-traps and all kinds of stuff. If you pick-up a bar of soap, as you are using it, if you wore it down, it would explode on you. So, I walked in and there’s a book on the floor and it has a stamp of the Nazi’s on it and I said, “I don’t think there’s anything on this” so, I just took and tore out the pages and put them in my pocket, which I have kept. We then started back again, back across the street and got back in the Jeep and drove back. 19:13 We drove as far as where we could see where the beach head was and we left the Jeep and we started walking. By now, most of the Germans have been pushed back from the beachhead and then you start to figure out how long did it take? Was it fifty miles? I’m trying to reconstruct that myself, but as we came back these pill boxes were connected by trenches that you walk through and at one point this fellow, we were still together, the three of us, and the one fellow is ahead of me and we start going and there’s a pillbox and we see a pillbox and the entrance to it and a turn there—it’s a trench, and as we started getting closer, we heard something and we all stopped and the guy ahead of me said, “What is it?” So, the next thing we heard from them was one click coming to us and we didn’t have anything to 33 �answer with and I told him to ask him where the Yankees play and he did. He said, “Where do the Yankees play?” The answer came back and it was something way off and we just looked at each other and the grenades just went right in, each one threw one and there were two German soldiers in there and by time we got there, they were dead. 20:49 Again, what was going on and continued almost all the entire eighteen months I was in—it was a sniper—you were meeting people that were not on our side. From there we started walking and then we started seeing some of our people and I said, “Where do we join? Where are we at?” So, now we are going from where we landed to the left and we had to go up—climb up and that, and we start climbing we see that they have put some ribbon, a white ribbon, and we have to stay within the white ribbon and it goes up and then it stakes and it turns and it goes up again, and they told me not to get out of that ribbon. The mines are all over the place. We started walking and we had to make a turn and this fellow is no farther away than that wall over there and as he makes a turn there is a terrific explosion and he stops back of that ribbon and his foot is gone. 21:46 He stepped on a mine. We joined our outfit and they had us in an area that was a big area where the hedgerows were around it and this was hedgerow country, and there were irrigation ditches almost made for fighting and people could use those right away. We were in there, and we were with our own outfit and I remember some tanks started coming through and it may have been Patton’s. “Patton wasn’t there yet”. They were tanks and I remember we were yelling at them as they were coming through “Go back, it’s over, you’re too late”, but again we were twenty-two year old guys looking for something different than what we had to face. 22:31 The next day or so we started to move out and as we’re going, I’m in the first vehicle next to the first sergeant, Chuck Lyons, and as we’re moving very slowly, all of a sudden this guy starts yelling at us and there again maybe twenty or 34 �thirty feet away at the most, and it was the guys who had landed there, the Pathfinders, and they were very happy to see us and they had been inside this house that was all bombed out and the door was hanging on the side and these guys come out and they say, “were happy we found you”, and they start coming over. 23:15 the last guy that was coming our, for some reason he closed the door, he pulls it and there’s this tremendous explosion and again, a bomb was there or something happened and he was slightly injured. We kept on moving and we get to Laval, I think it’s Laval, France, no, not Laval yet, from there they moved us to Grandcamp-les Bains, it’s on the channel, I would say, we landed here at the beachhead and it’s to the right quite a distance. “West of there, between Ohaha Beach and Utah Beach”. 23:50 There we started communications. Now, we had people who were—because of the size of the battalion, we had people who were from England, we had small groups that went with—we were the communications for SHAEF, for the Ninth Air Force and the ground forces under the soldier’s soldier, what’s his name? “Bradley”. Bradley, and when some of the soldiers would come across something that was stopping the, some of the ground troops, then are people who were with them, would contact us and say, “We run across this”. 24:25 We had the war room right next to us as close as this cabinet is there and give them the tape and they would decide what kind of ordnance to use. We would send it back and if—usually for example, a lot of your—we call them the dot, dot guys—Morse code— because that was more portable, that went out and pretty soon there comes a plane, a P-47 as a rule, flying tanks and they would get rid of that problem. 25:19 This is what our role was. When we were getting ready to move out from—when they got us together there at that 35 �hedgerow country, we were instructed right there—they said, “You are to take any top secret, any secret, and confidential or restricted—no messages except red line from red line, we don’t care who it’s coming from because we have to keep the lines open for the war that is going on”. 25:50 We saw a number of messages coming through from Generals, from a number of people pretty high up. They were interfering and we wouldn’t even answer it and you could hear them talking about it. I landed there as a Private and we had that much authority—get that and get rid of it. We started moving when we were at Grandcamp-les-Bains, when they put us there; I really wanted to set aside some points. I saw for example that they brought in for the Teletype. The brought in a cable--there were some people in white suits and they connected our cable from our Teletype to England. 26:40 “They ran communication cables through the channel”. That was the safest. Everything else that we used was by air and could be intercepted. I was just fascinated by seeing that. We had an incident there that—we were working four hours and resting four hours right around the clock so, you were pretty well beat and I remember at one time we got a weapons carrier, it’s a small truck with seats on there, and they would take two of us or four of us in and then pick-up the other guys and bring them back, but in order to get to this Grandcamp-les-Bains, they had very narrow alley and that was guarded to the hilt on that and I remember these two Lieutenants and we called them—what was the name of the soap box that had twins on it? Anyway, we called them that name because they always carried comic books. 27:43 I couldn’t understand a person with that rank being attracted to comic books during was time. They always had them folded into their hip pocket. One of them was a guard that accompanied us, an officer, to get to this at night where we worked. As we were coming to this alley, and he had a word, a code word, a password, but on either side you had, I guess they were 36 �MP’s, and they would not hesitate at all because you had other people try to get through. Their equipment had been dragged right out of there and had been shot up pretty badly. 28:26 I don’t know if they were soldiers or not, but we get through, we get in there, they picked us up at night and the first thing he does it he takes this out and he’s looking at this and he tries to read and I said, “Oh my gosh what’s the matter with these people?” Anyway, we get there and he cannot remember the word and all of us start swearing at this guy and all we could hear out there were the bolts moving already—the MP’s. 28:59 He finally remembered so, we got through and I don’t know who hit the guy afterward, but he was an enlisted man and nobody said a word. Those were very close calls that sometimes we refer to as friendly fire, that’s the way these things had come about. I remember, while there, we sent the message for the----- breakthrough because we couldn’t get off the beachhead. We ere getting eighty eights, I think they called them, it was a very good gun that the Germans had, they put it on a tank or artillery or whatever, and they were reaching us. 29:32 I remember one time while we were there a message comes through and I tore the thing off and gave it to Chuck and said, “What the heck’s happening?” They sent the message that the Germans were using gas. That they had experience, whoever the guy was so, I gave it to Chuck and within a couple of minutes here comes another message from the Germans saying, “No, it’s a mistake, a mistake” so, those things happened at that moment right then and there. We did not retaliate, we gave it to the war room right there and then the message went out that we were going to retaliate, but they didn’t. Another time I was called, I had just gone to bed and was sleeping there and in our tents and we have a trench for us to get in because the—at night no one was supposed to get in there, no planes or ours or anything and they had tracers and that thing would go almost like fingers and bring anything down that was there, friend or foe. 30:45 Next to us, about a block away, there were fifty-five gallon drums 37 �stored as high as you could see them and it wouldn’t take—you do a thirty, thirty and blow up the whole place, but it was under camouflage, but this one night I remember that I was just getting ready to go to bed and this searchlight started coming on and firing, firing is going on all the time, but all of a sudden these tracers start coming in from far off where we would be— Omaha Beach is over here and it’s coming from the North to South and we heard the plane and I saw the plane zoom up and try to make a maneuver to get out. 31:31 I started yelling, That’s one of our, that’s one of ours, a P-38” and the guy said, “No, that’s a German”, and I said, “No, a German is more square”, that’s the way we talked, and all this time this plane started blinking it’s light and trying to get out of there—somehow it got in there by mistake. It didn’t take long and all these tracers just came through and he came down. The next morning as we were going to work, the plane was there and pieces of what was left of it and the pilot and again, they were not supposed to get in there. 32:01 They had a number of balloons. “Barrage balloons?” Yes, they were on the ships that were coming in for the landing and we had them there also, but there was another incident that shouldn’t happen, but we got this one message of a General Roosevelt who was killed—that was on the“Well, General Roosevelt didn’t—he died of—there was a General Roosevelt who was with the 4th division, he died of natural causes, but he was out of the army. There was another General who was hit by American bombers.” He was hit by friendly fire. Coming through the----breakthrough, I had just gone to bed and they came over and said, “Chuck wants ya, he needs ya” and I said, “To heck with him”. I’m just— we’re working four hours and resting four hours right around the clock I mean you just have time to get a bite to eat and we didn’t take our shoes off for over a month. 33:03 You were busy on 38 �that so, started swearing and told them I needed to get something to eat and to get somebody else and he said, “No, he wants you”. Well, pretty soon here comes an MP and he said, “Get up, you’re needed”, and I said, “Ok”. I go in and Chuck said, “Pancho, we have to send this message, there are two messages eight feet long and I need you on this one”. We had to send it out quick and there were a lot of numbers and coded and so on, but we could read it, we knew what it was. So, he took one and I took the other one and we started sending it out. 33: 49 This was the entire battle plan for the St. Lo breakthrough. It started out, and we saw this, where they would drop—the very first planes that came out, I think they were P-38’s, they dropped a flare of a color over there and another one over here, it was in a square. The next thing is—you started getting planes coming over and they didn’t stop. You had the English, you had B-17’s, B-24’s, all kinds of bombers coming through and they were just getting over the area and they started dropping the bombs in that square. 34:25 We got the message very quickly, “friendly fire”, and— “General McNair was the General that got killed. He was a very high ranking--” No, I’m talking one of the Roosevelt’s--wait a minute, wait a minute. “There was only one Roosevelt in the area and he wasn’t there by then, but there was a very famous General, high ranking General, named McNair, who was the head of the infantry. He was there inspecting things behind the lines and he got killed.” No, this— “There were some others, but not a Roosevelt, at least then.” I’ll double check on that thing. It was relayed to the Presidency and I’m thinking it was part of the Theodore Roosevelt family on that, but I’ll check it for you to be correct, but that’s what I can recall. 35:09 Then we started getting the bombs were dropped and then a lot of smoke 39 �started going up, a lot of black smoke and you could feel the trembling and you could see in the distance from the beachhead to St. Lo, you could feel it. This great big cloud started going up and then it started to rain. And then there was--the soldiers were being brought back, the prisoners, they were coming back and they had blood from their nose, from their ears from concussions. They were really in bad shape and they had really gotten a beating and they were just piled in the trucks, the prisoners. 35:56 When we got to the point of moving out of there, we really couldn’t believe they were finally getting on the beachhead. They were moving in and moving in, but they were not making the progress that we had hoped—being blocked there. With the opening of the St. Lo breakthrough, we moved out of there and we stopped at Laval, Laval, France, look at the map where it is. There was joined by Patton, by Bradley, Montgomery, I forget some of the other people who were there, Eisenhower was not there, but I remember that Chuck, we set up the mobile outfit and Chuck comes over and he taps me on the shoulder and said, “Send this message out” so, if you were sending out a message, whoever you are sending it to, you want to get their attention so they get the message, you hit the letter “K” repeatedly— that means I got high priority. 37:00 So, when this happened, I started—he told me this was for the—not the 3rd Army—anyway what happened was, I looked down and saw shinny boots and they were riding boots and we were not in a place where anyone has shinny anything there and I thought, “Oh my, I wonder who it is?” I wasn’t looking up at him and as I turned around he gave me haute to call on that. So, I kept hitting the “K” and then I put it on the Teletype. I said, “General Patton here, I have a message for you”. And he comes back and he was right in back of me and you could read what’s going on and when he comes back he said, “No shit”. 37:54 So, I hit the “K” again I tell them again, “Message here from General Patton”, and he comes back with the same thing, “No shit”. I looked around and you could see hi ivory 40 �pistols and he was dressed like he was going to be in a parade, but he always was immaculate for his role as head of the army, 3rd Army, right? 38:27 “Right”. So, he said it and his words were so soft, that’s what I remember, very much in control. He knew what he was doing, he was strong, very strong like the person was practiced speaking and sucking in his stomach and all this stuff, just soft he said, “Let me try it” so, I stepped out and I didn’t know he could type, really, he starts typing and I don’t know what he said and I wish I should have kept it, but what came back was, “Yes sir”. 39:00 I knew he could swear like no one so, that was—I had that Teletype copy for a long time, but it had “yes sir”, that’s the way it came back. He knew who it was then. Then from there we had—when we moved in there before it was a joining of this group, with different people in command and so on, we had camouflage, we were under a lot of trees, and just as were coming in there, we’re just starting to park, and we had the trucks, I think four by four’s or something like that, with canvas covers and were a little larger, but where the driver is, it was open and they had a ring, they had fifty calibers mounted on those things so, coming in we park in there and the next thing you heard was just a very soft ffffftttt and somebody yelled, “I’m hit”. It was a sniper. 40:08 We’re like in a forest. “And this is in an area far away from where there was supposed to be a front line, too. You should be some ways away from where there should have been Germans.” We were not expecting them—we had moved in, we had a lot of troops there, we had all the U.S. soldiers, we had taken the area, we had come through the St. Lo breakthrough, we’re stopping now and we’re not expecting anything like that. The moment we heard that—somebody yelled, “I’m hit”, it was a sniper and these guys on their trucks with those fifty calibers and anybody 41 �else—I think I had a Thompson with me and we just started shooting into the trees. We had more damage from the big branches that we were knocking down than the bullets. This guy was hit, I think in the shoulder. I think they were trying to kill him or mistook him for somebody else, but that was another incident where it was constant all through Europe, the sniper fire. 41:08 “At this point I’m going to give us a break, it’s almost twelve o’clock and were not done.” I’m surprised I’m around—on the landing—so many thousands and not many got out. “Now we’ve gotten you to the point where you’ve made it to Laval France. It’s August of 1944 at this point, they’ve broken out of Normandy, you’ve had your sniper incident, what do you do from there?” 44:50 We started moving towards Paris. I’m still in the Teletype work and when we start getting close to Paris the sniper fire was very strong, even within the city. We didn’t get too close to the city; in fact we didn’t even get to the city. We got to Versailles and I didn’t know too much about it, I had not read enough history, I wish I had become familiar with it before I was there. I know there were a lot of mirrors on that. We slept in the stables, which were pretty fancy. Then we went too, because of sniper fire and the fighting, there was fighting going on. Keep in mind that there were a lot of French supporting the Germans and they were losing their positions too. 45:54 “And Versailles actually was a place where the Germans had done a lot of business and there were probably quite a few right around there.” Before leaving the beachhead another incident I wanted to share with you, but anyway we get to Versailles—we went south from there and around Paris and we got to Chantilly on that, but then at some point we did—I’ll get back to that—I don’t want to forget this other incident that 42 �happened on the beachhead when we were at this town, Laval, and at one break, it was late afternoon or early evening, and I’m eating something, I think before I start my turn, and I hear this fellow over here speaking Spanish 46:56 and I couldn’t understand him too well, a civilian, and there were a lot of civilians dead all over the place too, they were hit pretty badly. I turned to him and asked him, “Do you speak Spanish?” He said yes, you do too? I would say he was possibly five feet tall, maybe not even that and I said, “Where are you from?” He said, “Spain, I’m trying to get back to Spain”, and he said, “I was a jockey for Goring, for his stables, but I’m anxious to get away and I’m trying to get back to Spain, but we haven’t eaten, do you have anything?” I gave him some of my rations. 47:38 Well then he said, “Will you be here tomorrow with a little more food so then I can leave for Spain?” I said, “Sure”, and the next day he is there, but he has about six other people and I didn’t have that much food, but I gave him what I had, but four of the other people were girls and they had bandanas tied on their head and I knew what had happened because we were also very much in touch with the maquis, with our communications, they were bringing prisoners in for interrogation and we were talking with them, we traded chocolate for epaulets, and the Germans are like that, but sitting there I knew the reason they had on bandanas was because their hair had been cut by the French underground because they had German boyfriends—they were good looking girls on that, but anyway again, keep in mind the age, twenty some years old, I told this fellow in Spanish, “I do not understand why these girls or anyone would be friendly with the Germans”, and this one girl spoke up in Spanish and she said, “I’ll say it in English, I just want to tell you that my heart is French, everything else about me is international”. 49:06 That was another big lesson to learn, but they were surviving on that. Going to Laval, going around Paris and Chantilly, we had been using a communication system called “type 10”, developed by the British, it was a dish, but you could 43 �only send a signal from on e high point to another high point so, one of the things we did, we to the Eiffel Tower. By then I’m asked to work at headquarters instead of Teletype, again the typing, I made a lot of records so, the next thing I started seeing where we got a group that is attached to us, to be sure they kept the Eiffel Tower intact and so they did. 50:03 Then we had a person living in a very small box at the Eiffel Tower at the very top of the thing, and we had one of these discs like a satellite that you see today on towers, and it was called “type 10”, that’s the way we referred to it, but it was a British invention and it was highly protected and I don’t think you could get close to the Eiffel Tower maybe for a half a mile. 50:36 Sill the statuary [?], all the guards were there and you couldn’t get through. They had the river pretty well protected with guards and everything, but then I was in headquarters and I did go to pay the guy in the Eiffel Tower, and it was an excuse for me to get up there. I thought I was going to go up there in an elevator—well, at that time—no elevators, you could go up to the second level or something, but the elevator ran with water and this is wintertime, but what they did, they had a ballast that they filled with water and this thing pulled the elevator up. 51:14 It was wintertime, but I had the gear, fleece lined jacket and so on so, I went up there with the fellow that’s up there and he said, “Do you want to see this new equipment how it works?” Now we are crowded together in this little room and this whole darn tower moved, I guess part of the structure, the engineering of it, and I said, “Sure”, and he said, “Do you want to talk to headquarters?” I said, “Ya”, well this was about as far fetched from what we had started with, when we saw guys in a truck along the beachhead yet, throwing wire out to give us communication that could not be intercepted, and these were telephones and I think you could yell and I think they could hear you better, but the wire was on the side of the road and here comes a truck and they just chop it up—they put more. 52:06 He said, “Do you want to talk to Chantilly?” I said, “Sure” so, he said, “Watch this 44 �screen”, well pretty soon it was all like snow and then he started turning some knobs and pretty soon a line went right across that screen and a voice just as clear as today’s telephones. I told him—I think I’m a sergeant by then, and I said, “Sergeant Vega reporting and I’m delivering the payroll, I want to make it official”, all these orders that had to be cut for me to get there. I told this fellow, “Look, we have to make a record of this, I’ll bring a rope next time and a camera. I want a picture, I want to see the Trocadero and all the statues and so on—proof that we were here so, the next time I go with a rope and in order to do that we wrap the rope, we walk the rope around the base of the flagpole and I’m on one side like this, and he’s on the other side and I start pulling him up so he can come over with a camera—twenty year olds, that’s how I have that picture [part of Mr. Vega’s file at this site], I took one of him too. 53:21 I never went back up, one time was enough. To get there you had a lot of military police with dogs and they would not let that dog at you, it was a dog that would grab your arm because these were communications that were very important on that. Then I went back to Chantilly, we started getting some of the guys from the ground forces with problems, we had one fellow we called “Ak Ak”, there was a machine gun that was developed for the paratroopers that was just a wire on it, what do they call it? 54:08 “A grease gun?” Ya, a grease gun, but we would call him, we had a name for him—the problem he had was stammering, and he would talk to you, ak,ak ak, and we called him Ak Ak. “Burp guns were—“ Burp guns, yes—so, there was another fellow that—he would walk around the yard, I mean the area there and he would go like this in the air (pointing up with his index finger) and we knew they were sick, that there was something wrong with him, and one fellow said, “do you know 45 �why he is doing that?” I said, “No” and he said, “If I tell you, you wouldn’t believe me, why don’t we go ask him?” So, I went up to this guy and I said, “what are you doing going like this?” And he said, “I’m goosing butterflies”, and you could see some of the guys had been really hit by some of the fighting that was going on. 55:03 From there I went into a—in Chantilly we captured a—when we moved in, it was already vacant, where we lived there, we had a chalet, a big place, and had communications of the Germans, they had it for developing photography, and I had been an amateur photographer with this friend of mine in San Antonio and we had the camera and I would develop the film and so on, but we would stretch it out on that. Well, the Germans had left these containers that you would take and put the film in there all rolled with a solution in there and you develop it without any lights going down or anything like that so, I sent that back to this friend of mine, but that was a place, we lived there, we had a small barracks, small houses, we then were there when we suddenly started getting—this is not where out teletype equipment was, it was just the living quarters. 56:13 Across the street from them, we had the generators and the antennas and everything else , but then we had the teletype equipment elsewhere for safety purposes. We had five soldiers that joined us there, they were constantly under guard, a special guard unit, and what they would do was listen all day long to intercept code, intercept messages, and they were intercepting message to Africa, to Germany, to all over, and break it down. Their record, because then I was in personnel, their records of education were just unbelievable, they were young guys, but they had been to MIT, to Harvard, to two universities in England, FBI, Scotland Yard, and these were guys that were so—they’d get lost in a crowd until you hear them talk. 57:12 They had such a depth of knowledge of a number of things and this is what they were doing. Well, they would come to work, they had a special place for them, and they would put on these earphones, but all this time, going back to where we 46 �lived, there is Chantilly, surrounded by barbed wire day and night, twenty-four seven guard on that for food and everything else. 57:35 That’s one big change that came about. Across the street we had an area with the generators, we were all self-contained, we carried our own generators and everything, and we had guards on that. We were so short handed by then because the war was spreading, guys were running messages on motorcycles and Jeeps and airplanes, we had some small planes and those guys could land them just about anywhere. They looked like grasshoppers on that. When we started to move from one place to another, remember that we had them jumping, as I’m recalling this, on this one convoy they were moving, and they had twenty or thirty trucks that were moving and motorcycles up ahead of us, and these motorcycle guys had special helmets and the motorcycles had like protecting shields for their legs. 58:42 what they would be practicing all the time, was to running almost full speed, throw the motorcycle on it’s side and just skid with it, and I remember we were on this convoy and this guy was ahead of us and he was swinging from side to side on a gravel road and the next thing was a big cloud of dust—he hit a mine, but nothing happened to him, I think the saddle bags he had, which were leather, were just pieces in the air and everything else. We threw the motorcycle to the side, there was nobody wasted any time repairing those things, but I remember that this plane came over and flew over twice and he had a message to hand deliver to the Colonel, but first he dropped a tube on a ribbon and then we stopped and pretty soon here comes this plane and the field where he landed had something growing on it, I don’t know if it was alfalfa, but it has something growing on it, some grass and it had to be at least three feet high, and he comes and lands on that and he is throwing it like he’s a lawn mower. 59:46 He gets close to us, he gets out and hands us this message that is sealed in an envelope to the Colonel, whatever it was— information—he goes back, gets in the plane , turns that thing around and gets up and gets out of 47 �the field. I don’t think anyone checked to see if it was a proper landing field, but this is what you were seeing. Were into Chantilly and we get a message that we need to get some guys, our people, our mobile outfit and equipment, to get them out of Ardennes. Now I had been to Reims once before, I don’t remember the reason for it, but I had been there once, I have a record of it. 48 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VegaF1 Title A name given to the resource Vega, Francisco M. (Interview transcript, video, and papers, 1 of 3), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Vega, Francisco M. Description An account of the resource Francisco Vega was born in San Antonio, Texas. He tried to enlist in the military immediately after Pearl Harbor, but was initially rejected because of his Mexican ancestry. He eventually did enlist in the Army Air Corps, and began a long process in which he used his talents and persuasive skills to find increasingly interesting assignments, eventually training as a teletype operator with a signals unit that landed on Omaha Beach on D-Day and was eventually part of Eisenhower's headquarters. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army. Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-03-07 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/141b8849143e281318f3e8a8e96b34ce.mp4 58d85b7198b9a5067976bf3bc4bb3605 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/87180fa7d4e17f18725094f5b82a4374.pdf 2da3d022733b7e6cb603dc2fd109cdc2 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Bob Veenstra World War II Total Time: 43:00 Pre-War (00:05) • • • • • • Born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, in 1914. Went to a small public school. Attended Union High School in Grand Rapids. Upon graduation, he went to work at a blueprinting shop. Remembers hearing about Pearl Harbor on the radio. He was drafted in 1943 into the Navy. Training (03:40) • • • • • • Reported to Detroit, Michigan, for his physical and examination. (04:30) Went to Great Lakes Naval Training Station for boot camp. For boot camp, they got up early to go to breakfast, and then they reported to the field to be trained. Was then sent to Williamsburg, Virginia, for more training. He was put in the 42nd Seabee Battalion while he was in Williamsburg. He rendezvoused with the 42nd at Oakland, California. Active Duty (10:30) • • • • • • • • • • • • • From Oakland, he was sent to Hawaii where they did some training work. Remembers crossing the International Date Line. (13:30) Their Battalion’s job was to build a Hospital and airstrip on the Island of Samar in the Philippines. The island itself was rocky. (15:28) His specific job was to be a cook. There were around 8 cooks per ship. On the island, they stayed in tent that were raised off the ground and had wood floors. There were a couple hundred men on this island. They would create a line for the men that they cooked for where the men went through and had the option to choose what food they wanted. (22:10) The various cooks had specific jobs that they would perform. For instance, one man spent all of his time making ice cream for the camp. (24:00) The Navy was able to provide them with fresh food most of the time. They had a menu for the week which they went by. At each meal, they had a couple of hundred men that they had to feed. They were on this island for around six months. They were able to exchange mail with the mainland United States. They did not get much news about the war when they were there. �• • • • (31:45) Shortly after the war was over, his unit got sent to Shanghai, China on the Yangtze River. They stayed on the boat while they were there. They were sent there to be discharged. Also, part of the Battalion’s duty was to destroy mines in the harbor. They were also able to spend some time in the city of Shanghai. They went into the city on Rickshaws and ate the food. (39:30) He was in Shanghai for around a month, and was then discharged and sent back to the United States. DVD ENDS 43:00 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VeenstraR Title A name given to the resource Veenstra, Robert (Interview outline and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Veenstra, Robert Description An account of the resource Bob Veenstra was drafted into the US Navy in 1943. He trained as a Seabee in Williamsburg, Virginia, and was stationed in California before being sent to Samar in the Philippines. After the war he was stationed in Shanghai. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Michigan Military Preservation Society (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-10-13 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3adddc8bb4a640d72b1aa057fe102d24.mp4 674e0bb737e9ccdfab87350036336e2e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3bffd35b1ace26bfc1d631746e59b425.pdf f9583d0e703726797727df43bf20e402 PDF Text Text Interview Notes John S. Vedrode (00:32:00) Introduction (01:08) Family and childhood (02:37) • Grew up in the farming area of Merrill, MI with three sisters working on a 500-acre sugar beet farm. • Attended school through the 7th grade and went to work on the family farm with his father. Pre-enlistment (08:06) • He was working at the green elevator on December 8th, 1941 when a worker mentioned to him that Pearl Harbor had been bombed. Vedrode next mentions that he had been deferred for 6 months and then drafted in June, 1942. Enlistment and Training (10:49) • Went to Detroit for a physical and was given a clean bill of health. From there he went to Fort Custer for fitting. (12:08) • From there he went to Fort Rucker for basic training. (12:37) • Vedrode recounts a story regarding his ranger training. During his training he was commanded to trudge through 10 feet of water in a foxhole up to his shoulders. Such a task was difficult at best since he had to crawl out like a snake while a machine gun fired at them 18 inches off the ground. (13:28) • While undergoing training, he met an officer by the name of Mike Drenine who gave him two weeks of commando training. (16:12) • After commando training he stayed with his company until being deployed. The Philippines (16:59) • While stationed in the Philippines, Vedrode served in Carlson’s Raiders and trained under him. (18:13) • Vedrode tells of an encounter of which Colonel Carlson tells a certain sergeant, “You do the training too; just like these privates are doing.” �Marshall Islands (19:35) • Vedrode talks about a combat encounter that he had on the island of Eniwetok. • Landing on an island that was only two miles wide by three miles long, the importance of this island to the U.S. Marines was an airstrip. • Vedrode tells of an encounter where he was wounded. After landing and meeting no resistance at a particular pillbox, he calls for a flame thrower to destroy it. Upon destroying it, Vedrode went around to the side of the pillbox where he was hit in the head. When the medics came to get him, he did not want to go even though they told him to wait for the ship to come and pick him up. Tagged as he was, to identify that he was wounded, he disappeared on three occasions that the boat came to get the wounded. (23:34) • Vedrode talks of how he took a month and a half to heal on Eniwetok Island. (27:22) • Brief description of a Japanese soldier who comes charging out of a cave while they fired at him while they set a charge which explodes, the cave, but does not kill the Japanese soldier. • Vedrode talks about an encounter in which he blew up a 75 mm gun turret. While a group of his men were firing two machine guns, he crawled up in between them to the gun emplacement and placed a charge there and 10 seconds later it exploded. Afterwards, he received the Silver Star and the rank of staff sergeant for his bravery. Japan (24:22) • During his three-month stay in Japan, he tells of an encounter where he gives some Japanese kids candy. After serving three months in Japan, he is sent home. Going Home (25:11) • Instead of telling of his experience in going home, he talks about his four brothers and the different branches they served with: Frank (Merchant Marines), Louie (Navy), Ernie, and Steve. After the war (29:08) • Vedrode talks about his marriage years after the service. He says he met his wife after the service and was married between 20 and 25 years. In addition, �he had five kids: Laura, Linda, Tina, Doug, and Dan and quiet a few grandchildren as well. (32:20) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VedrodeJ Title A name given to the resource Vedrode, John (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Vedrode, John Description An account of the resource John Vedrode served in the U.S. Marine Corps from 1942 to 1945. He describes combat on Eniwetok, where he earned a silver star for destroying a Japanese gun emplacement, serving with Carlson's Raiders in the Philippines, and serving on occupation duty in Japan after the war. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Marine Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-25 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8f37e6f04eeb9a900094a2b59b36c51d.mp4 9725a9d2659a9018b7beafdb8b9b6ca2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/55bed89c7fd9791beec600f4a8b13ac8.pdf 2c741bca71c389b4118f5bc56717d258 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Isabelino Vazquez Korean War / Vietnam War Interview Length: (01:36:51:00) Pre-Military Life / Korean War / Early Military Service (00:00:12:00)  Vazquez was born in Puerto Rico and he stayed in Puerto Rico until he was nineteen years old; he completed high school in Puerto Rico and was attending the University of Puerto Rico when drafted into the Army (00:00:12:00) o When he was initially drafted, Vazquez was not overly concerned because he had an understanding of the fighting that occurred during World War II and that was something that interested him, especially the fighting done by the American Ranger units (00:01:07:00) o Ultimately, three people in Vazquez’s family ended up serving in the military at the same time as Vazquez (00:01:32:00)  Vazquez did his basic training in Puerto Rico and the training lasted for only six weeks (00:01:42:00) o All the soldiers who went through training at the camp were Puerto Ricans and for the majority of the soldiers, they would be used to help fill out the 65th Infantry Regiment; however, Vazquez ended up going to a different unit (00:01:58:00)  When Vazquez was growing up, his mother was a nurse and his father was a clerk working at the Federal Court in San Juan (00:02:21:00)  Overall, Vazquez’s basic training did not really consist of much of anything; apart from the typical physical education and exercises, the training was mostly learning how to fight with the different weapons available, including the M-1 rifle, the B.A.R. (Browning Automatic Rifle), light machine guns and the 81mm mortar (00:02:56:00)  After finishing their basic training, Vazquez and the other soldiers at the camp did not receive any advanced training; instead, Vazquez and the others sailed directly from Puerto Rico to Japan (00:03:56:00) o Once in Japan, the soldiers had seven days where they trained with soldiers from the 187th Airborne Regiment (00:04:02:00) o For the voyage from Puerto Rico to Japan, the soldiers traveled on a Navy troop ship; on the ship, there were individual soldiers going to Japan as replacements for specific units as well as several all-Latino units from different South and Central American countries, including Columbia and Ecuador (00:04:21:00)  Vazquez was seasick the first three or four days of the voyage because he had never been on a ship before (00:05:04:00)  The voyage lasted for roughly 40 days and Vazquez would venture a guess that up to 50% of the soldiers on the ship were seasick during the initial part of the voyage; eventually, all the soldiers did become accustomed to the roll of the ship (00:05:12:00)  For the most part, the weather during the voyage was not bad but the soldiers were just not accustomed to being on a ship (00:05:27:00) � o Vazquez and the other soldiers did not see much of Japan because they were restricted to staying on the Army base (00:05:44:00) From Japan, Vazquez and the other soldiers sailed to Korea, arriving in the port town of Pusan; from Pusan, the soldiers boarded a train headed towards Seoul (00:06:05:00) o The train ride to Seoul took about two days because enemy forces had infiltrated as far south as the train line; at different points, the train stopped and Vazquez and the other soldiers had to disembark and fight various enemy forces (00:06:28:00) o Once in Seoul, Vazquez was assigned to be a messenger in G Company of the 15th Infantry Regiment, 7th Division; Vazquez received an assignment as a messenger because Vazquez spoke some English (00:06:52:00)  Some of the other soldiers in the company were English-speaking Americans but because of Army segregation policies at the time, there were also soldiers from the Hawaiian islands, Japan and Germany, amongst other places but no African-American soldiers (00:07:16:00)  There was one battalion consisting of only African-American soldiers attached to the 3rd Infantry Division (00:08:14:00)  When Vazquez joined his company, the company was already deployed to a defensive position on the front line (00:08:35:00) o Vazquez’s initial perception of Korea was that everything was different in Korea; based on his limited knowledge of Korea, someone would either be in the rice paddies or on the top of hills or mountains (00:08:49:00)  Vazquez would climb one hill or mountain expecting it to be the last one but there was always another one and another one after that (00:09:07:00) o Vazquez’s company was in contact with the enemy all the time; for the most part, in the beginning, the company occupied defensive positions and the enemy would come in and attack them (00:09:22:00)  The enemy forces would only attack at night in order to protect themselves from American aircraft; normally, the enemy attacks occurred around the same time, so Vazquez and the other soldiers in the company knew when they had to be ready for an attack (00:09:54:00)  The enemy attacks usually followed a regular pattern, where their artillery would bombard the American positions before the infantry would attack en masse (00:10:28:00)  However, the American soldiers knew the pattern and were able to protect themselves from the artillery (00:10:51:00)  During attacks, the Americans had “the final protective line”, which consisted of interlocking fire from all the machine guns in the unit, as well as artillery and mortar fire (00:11:00:00) o When the order for the “final protective line” is given, all the weapons in the unit fired, aiming two hundred meters away from the position and slowly creeping back towards the position (00:11:18:00) o Vazquez stayed as a messenger for about two weeks before his company commander assigned him to the 3rd platoon as a rifleman (00:11:40:00) � o Vazquez’s company commander had been served as a company commander during World War II and the commander did not believe in the losing ground to enemy forces (00:12:06:00)  In the mind of the commander, if the company lost any ground, then the soldiers were going to have to eventually come back and attack in order to take the ground back (00:12:17:00) o Eventually, the Army that Vazquez’s unit was a part of, 8th Army, broke through the enemy lines and began advancing (00:12:34:00)  When they would attack the enemy positions, Vazquez’s unit and other American units would attack during the daytime, although every unit attacked in a slightly different way (00:12:57:00)  Vazquez’s company commander usually had two platoons attack in a frontal assault as a feint while having the other two platoons attack from both flanks (00:13:15:00)  The enemy defenses mostly consisted of trenches, which meant that once the American managed to take control of one end of the trenches, they could use the trenches to attack the other parts of the enemy position (00:14:00:00) o For the most part, they were open trenches, although in some spots, there were bunkers (00:14:19:00) Vazquez stayed in Korea for fourteen months, although he did not spend the entire time with the same regiment; when his initial twelve-month tour ended, Vazquez transferred to the 65th Infantry Regiment (00:14:34:00) o Vazquez transferred to the 65th Infantry because the soldiers in that unit were completing their tours at the same time, so they would all be going home at the same time (00:14:54:00) o However, when Vazquez arrived, the 65th Infantry was not moving the soldiers out yet because the regiment had suffered a large number of casualties; Vazquez stayed with the regiment for two months as a platoon leader (00:15:01:00) o When he transferred to the 65th Infantry, Vazquez was an E-7, a Sergeant First Class (00:15:17:00) o At the time Vazquez joined, the regiment was still involved in fighting; almost every day, one or two platoons would go out and try to take different high grounds (00:15:32:00)  Sometimes, the enemy would hold onto the high ground and other times, they would fall back (00:15:58:00) o Vazquez's unit in the 65th Infantry did not suffer the amount of casualties he had seen with the 15th Infantry (00:16:22:00)  When Vazquez first joined the 15th Infantry, there were fifty men in his platoon but by the time Vazquez left, the platoon was down to only six soldiers (00:16:32:00)  Twice, the platoon received some replacement soldiers, enough to fill some of the holes in the platoon; however, the platoon never reached more than 70% full (00:16:46:00) �     All of the platoon’s losses occurred during attacks on enemy positions; the platoon’s own defensive positions were strong enough to defend against the enemy attacks (00:17:11:00) During his tour, Vazquez saw a lot of Korean civilians, most of who were retreating away from the fighting (00:17:38:00) o During the initial trip out towards the front, Vazquez and the other soldiers were traveling towards the front while the civilians were traveling in the opposite direction, toward Pusan (00:17:50:00) o However, once Vazquez and the other soldiers reached the front line, there were no civilians (00:18:03:00) Reflecting on his time in Korea, Vazquez realizes that while he was with the 15th Infantry, he had a very good company commander as well as very good platoon leaders and a very good platoon sergeant (00:18:23:00) o Vazquez’s time in the 65th Infantry was different because the soldiers in the regiment were a little bit disorganized and they did not have the type of support and resources that the 15th Infantry had (00:18:58:00)  On some occasions, when Vazquez and the other soldiers would take a hilltop and try to dig in but would hit rocks and could not dig in; however, in the 15th Infantry, Vazquez’s company commander would call an engineering squad to use explosives to clear away the rocks (00:19:17:00)  The 15th Infantry received a large amount of artillery support while the 65th Infantry did not nor did the 65th Infantry receive the same type of engineer support as the 15th received (00:19:37:00) o The 65th Infantry was attached to the 3rd Infantry Division but the division did not provide enough support to the regiment (00:19:56:00) After leaving Korea, Vazquez returned to Puerto Rico, briefly left the military, then returned between a month and a month and a half later, where he promptly applied for a transfer to the 82nd Airborne Division (00:20:27:00) o When he was growing up, Vazquez wanted to serve in the Army as either a Ranger or a paratrooper (00:20:48:00) o During the period he was not in the Army, Vazquez returned to the University of Puerto Rico and started playing baseball, although he did not have the same skill as he had before he went to Korea (00:21:20:00)  The competition was much higher after Vazquez returned, so after the month, he went back into the Army (00:21:34:00) When he joined the 82nd Airborne, Vazquez had to attend jump school, which was very difficult for Vazquez (00:21:50:00) o There were not too many Spanish-speaking soldiers in the 82nd Airborne at the time, so the other soldiers treated Vazquez differently, making the training very difficult for him (00:22:05:00)  Vazquez was somewhat lucky because a couple of nights before he began jump school, when he went to the NCO club on the base, there was a sergeant first class who had been stationed in Puerto Rico (00:22:25:00)  The sergeant, first class saw Vazquez sitting by himself, so he struck up a conversation with Vazquez and eventually, a master sergeant came to the same table and talked with both men; as it � turned out, the master sergeant was the NCOIC (Noncommissioned officer in-charge) of the 82nd Airborne Division’s jump school (00:23:03:00)  When Vazquez started the training, the other soldiers were giving him a hard time but the master sergeant Vazquez had met at the NCO club did not know about it (00:23:24:00)  Then, after two weeks, the master sergeant came down, saw Vazquez, and the two men started talking; the master sergeant asked how everything was going and Vazquez told him everything that had happened with the other soldiers (00:23:29:00)  Vazquez figures the master sergeant talked with the other soldiers and told them to lay off Vazquez because after that, Vazquez did not have any problems with the other soldiers (00:23:50:00) o After he completed the basic jump training, Vazquez went straight into jump master training because the master sergeant had given permission (00:24:02:00) Once he finished jump master training and NCO training, Vazquez transferred to the 11th Airborne Division at Fort Campbell, Kentucky (00:24:34:00) o The 11th Airborne was being formed and needed personnel, so soldiers were taken from the 82nd Airborne to help fill out the 11th Airborne (00:24:52:00) o Vazquez joined the 11th Airborne in 1954 after re-enlisting and joining the 82nd Airborne in 1953 (00:25:02:00) o After the 11th Airborne was completed and at full strength, the entire division moved from Fort Campbell to Germany in January 1956 (00:25:16:00)  The division moved to Augsburg, Germany with the assignment to support the various armored units in the area in the event of a Soviet attack into Germany (00:25:38:00)  While in Germany, the division took part in various tactical exercises, deploying to positions behind the armored units (00:26:02:00)  Vazquez would label his time in Germany as one of his best tours of duty, staying in the country for three years (00:26:32:00)  Overall, the 11th Airborne did not receive much training in the way of making attacks; instead, the division was largely used as a ready-reaction force (00:27:07:00)  Although the division was primarily stationed in Germany, the soldiers also did a couple jumps in Italy and for a brief period, deployed to Lebanon (00:27:26:00) o The soldiers’ deployment to Lebanon was in 1956 and was primarily a show of force (00:27:49:00) o During his time deployed in Germany, Vazquez decided to make a career our of the Army because in Germany, for whatever reason, although he was only a sergeant first class, Vazquez was a platoon leader (00:28:44:00)  While in Korea, Vazquez was twice offered an officer’s commission but he declined both times; Vazquez declined the commissions because he did not want to be an officer and because he enjoyed being an enlisted soldier (00:28:59:00) �  In Germany, Vazquez received another offer for an officer’s commission and although he decline again, he kept command of his platoon, although he had been promoted to E-8 (Master Sergeant) (00:29:23:00) After the three-year tour in Germany, Vazquez returned to Fort Campbell for several years, until 1959, when he joined the Special Forces (00:29:39:00) Special Forces / 1st Vietnam Deployment / 2nd Vietnam Deployment (00:30:01:00)  Vazquez did not know much about Vietnam prior to joining the Special Forces (00:30:02:00)  Two different things motivated Vazquez into joining the Special Forces: first, when he returned to Fort Campbell, Vasquez joined the 187th Airborne Regiment, the same regiment he had trained with in Japan prior to going to Vietnam (00:30:16:00) o When he joined the 187th, Vazquez was already very experienced in airborne operations, having made numerous jumps in both jump school and jump master training, as well as several jumps while stationed in Germany (00:30:46:00) o There six or seven other soldiers in Vazquez’s company who had made a similar amount of jumps as Vazquez and eventually, two of the men decided to join the Special Forces (00:31:12:00)  The Special Forces training was the most difficult training Vazquez experienced in the military (00:31:45:00) o The first training new Special Forces members underwent was qualification training; the first two weeks of the qualification training was largely physical, including swimming and hiking in the mountains with a weapon and a ninetypound rucksack (00:31:50:00) o The Special Forces training happened all over the southeastern part of the United States, including North Carolina, Florida, and Georgia (00:32:21:00) o Qualification training lasted for eight to ten weeks with only about 30% of the soldiers who started actually finishing (00:32:51:00)  After finishing the qualification training, the soldiers went through different, individual skill courses, such as: light weapons, heavy weapons, demolitions, medic, operations & intelligence, etc. (00:33:04:00)  Prior to the skill courses, each soldier took a battery of tests to determine which course would be best for them (00:33:32:00) o Vazquez was selected to train skill courses in operations & intelligence (00:33:50:00)  Operations & intelligence soldiers had two primary jobs while in the field: doing diagnosis and analysis of a situation before sending the information higher in the chain of command and acting as the second-in-command to the Special Forces team leader, assisting in tactical situations (00:34:00:00) o During the training, officers trained with a different group than the NCOs, although NCOs made up the majority of the soldiers in training (00:34:56:00)  At that time, a soldier needed to be at least a sergeant in order to qualify for Special Forces (00:35:07:00)  When the qualification training ended, all the soldiers went through a filtering exercise, where two officers, one acting as a commanding officer �   and the other as a executive officer (XO) would lead a detachment of NCOs (00:35:21:00)  The detachment would train in the field for four or five weeks to see if the two groups, officers and NCOs, could work together and survive as a team (00:35:44:00)  This part of the training occurred in North Carolina (00:35:57:00) o Vazquez started the Special Forces training in January 1959 and finished the training a year later, in January 1960 (00:36:20:00) After finishing the training, Vazquez was assigned to “B” Company, 7th Special Forces Group, which was stationed Fort Bragg, North Carolina (00:36:46:00) o Vazquez stayed in the 7th Special Forces for about four months before a new Special Forces group, the 6th Special Forces Group, formed and soldiers from all the different existing Special Forces groups, including Vazquez, were selected to help form and train the 6th Special Forces (00:37:02:00) Vazquez stayed with the 6th Special Forces for another four months before transferring to the 8th Special Forces stationed at the Panama Canal, whose assigned area of operations included all of Central and South America (00:37:31:00) o For the most part, the 8th Special Forces assisted various Central and South American countries perform different operations (00:37:58:00) o At their time, the group’s primary assignment was to train the military forces of the Central and South American countries, including training the Cuban exiles who took part in the failed Bay of Pigs invasion (00:38:19:00) o Vazquez stayed with 8th Special Forces for three years and did several missions in Columbia, Ecuador, and Bolivia (00:38:38:00) o All the soldiers Vazquez served with in Panama spoke Spanish; every soldier in the Special Forces had to train in a secondary language and Vazquez, although he spoke both English and Spanish, still needed training in another language, so he trained in Arabic (00:39:41:00)  Vazquez trained in Arabic because the 7th Special Forces at that time was responsible for the Middle East (00:40:07:00) o While in the various Central and South American countries, Vazquez and the other Special Forces soldiers did not become overly involved in actual combat; instead, the soldiers spent most of their time training soldiers in the other countries’ militaries (00:40:38:00) Vazquez’s assignment in Panama ended in 1965, when he transferred to the 1st Special Forces Group stationed on Okinawa and did Vazquez did a “short tour” in Vietnam, assisting in the training of South Vietnamese Special Forces soldiers (00:41:05:00) o While in Vietnam, Vazquez assisted in training the South Vietnamese Special Forces (00:41:30:00) o After the four months in Vietnam, Vazquez and his team were replaced by another team of Special Forces soldiers who continued training the South Vietnamese soldiers (00:41:59:00) o The area where Vazquez and his team conducted the training was a good area, located very close to the ocean and on high ground (00:42:23:00) � o Apart from training the South Vietnamese soldiers, the other primary assignment for Vazquez and his team was training South Vietnamese nurses, both men and women (00:42:42:00)  At the time, there were two trained medics in Vazquez’s team, both of whom had gone through the Special Forces’ medical courses, which often took several years to complete (00:43:04:00)  Once a soldier finished the medical training, he was qualified enough to be a physician's assistant, and thus capable of training nurses (00:43:22:00)  While the two medics trained the South Vietnamese to be nurses, Vazquez spent most of his time collecting intelligence from civilians who came into the clinic that the nurses ran (00:43:47:00)  Everyone knew that at least some of the civilians were Viet Cong, so Vazquez would interview them through a translator to try and obtain information (00:43:56:00)  Every day, Viet Cong came to the clinic to see the nurses because their forces did not have any trained medics (00:44:24:00) o Vazquez was smart enough to recognize who were the Viet Cong and who were not and would only ask certain questions to the Viet Cong members so as not to tip them off that he knew who they were (00:44:44:00)  Once they determined someone was part of the Viet Cong, Vazquez and the others would tip off the South Vietnamese Special Forces detachment (00:45:03:00) After finishing the short tour in Vietnam, Vazquez went back to Fort Bragg and was assigned to the 5th Special Forces Group before the group received assignment back to Vietnam in 1966 (00:45:47:00) o When the group deployed, it was assigned to operate in the Mekong Delta region and Vazquez continued working in Operations and Intelligence (00:46:12:00) o The group’s primary mission was going into a specific area of operations where they would recruit and train locals to conduct combat operations within that specific area (00:46:30:00)  Prior to when Vazquez arrived back in Vietnam, the Americans had a single Special Forces detachment operating within the A Shau Valley that was completely destroyed during an enemy attack (00:47:10:00)  The detachment was destroyed because the Vietnamese in one of the companies the soldiers recruited from the area were actually part of the Viet Cong, so went the enemy attack started, that company began firing from the inside the camp (00:47:22:00)  Vazquez realized he needed to be smarter when he recruited local Vietnamese, so he focused on recruiting ethnic Chinese living in the cities (00:47:41:00)  The Chinese were very loyal and so long as the Americans treated them well, took care of their families, paid them on time, and did everything they could for them, then the Chinese would fight for the Americans (00:48:21:00) �o When Vazquez and the other soldiers first arrived at the area where their base would be, they first had to clear the area of the enemy by doing a combat assault, where all the soldiers were mounted in helicopters (00:48:44:00)  Once the area was clear of enemy soldiers, it took the Special Forces soldiers ninety days to build their camp (00:49:01:00)  Construction of the camp was mostly done by a team of SeaBees (Naval Engineers) using small bulldozers (00:49:41:00)  Before the SeaBees arrived, the Special Forces soldiers had formed the lay out of the base (00:50:01:00)  The soldiers knew that during the monsoon season, they would not be able to operate at the base, so the SeaBees commander suggested building the base’s buildings on top of 55 gallon drums (00:50:04:00)  When the soldiers asked how they would defend the base during the monsoons, the commander said they would cut holes in large conex containers for the soldiers to fire the weapons out of and would build a platform the soldiers could stand on; after that, the entire container was covered in a special webbing that went deep into the ground before being tightened (00:50:46:00)  Once the monsoons rains did eventually come, both the buildings and the conex containers would begin to float (00:51:40:00) o The camp came under attack, initially by enemy probes, usually as squad of ten or fifteen soldiers, although larger attacks followed (00:52:05:00)  However, the soldiers in the camp knew that the camp was going to be attacked because they had gathered information from the surrounding villages that the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese were building a number of wooden boxes (00:52:19:00)  To counter the possibility of the attack, Vazquez placed one squad in the area where he thought the attack most likely to come from, which was to the north (00:53:04:00)  To the south of the camp was the Mekong river, which offered protect in the form of Navy boats (00:53:16:00)  The first time the enemy attacked the camp, they attacked with a single battalion but when the attack began, the forces Vazquez had placed on the north side of the camp discovered the enemy very quickly (00:53:30:00)  The enemy eventually fell back, after which the Americans called in a AC-130 gunship, the “Spooky” (00:53:48:00)  While the help of the gunship, the enemy attack was stopped four hundred meters away from the camp (00:54:04:00)  The soldiers knew that prior to an attack, the enemy would build two different things, wooden boxes to carry away their dead and wounded, and wooden ladders (00:54:26:00)  During the destruction of the Special Forces detachment in the A Shau Valley, the enemy used ladders to help cross the wires surrounding the perimeter of the detachment’s camp (00:54:33:00)  The soldiers in Vazquez’s camp knew that if the enemy in the area had ladders, then their camp would soon be attacked (00:54:43:00) �   The first enemy battalion to attack the camp was from the North Vietnamese 514th Infantry Regiment (00:54:58:00)  The soldiers in the camp were familiar with the 514th Infantry because the regiment was often the main enemy force that the soldiers had to fight (00:55:10:00)  The first attack on the base happened in July 1967 (00:55:22:00)  Most of the enemy forces operating in the area surrounding the camp were part of the Viet Cong, while the 514th Infantry had only recently moved into the area (00:55:34:00)  Vazquez and the other soldiers knew the 514th Infantry was in the area because they had received intelligence from other units about the movement of the regiment (00:55:45:00)  During the first enemy attack, apart from calling in an AC-130 gunship for support, Vazquez also requested support from a mobile strike force, a battalion-sized unit (00:56:06:00)  After the AC-130 attacked, the mobile strike force helped push the enemy back (00:56:24:00)  Normally, enemy attacks would also include sappers, which the soldiers needed to take out first (00:56:35:00)  During the first attack, the initial contact that the platoon on the perimeter made was with the enemy sappers (00:56:38:00) o Vazquez was wounded six days after the enemy attack, when the camp was attacked by two enemy battalions (00:57:06:00)  During the second enemy attack, the commander of the mobile strike force was told to come in but the strike force ended up attacking and defeating both enemy battalions (00:57:18:00)  During the attack, Vazquez was fighting with some enemy forces and did not realize that a second Special Forces team was coming via the river; when the second team arrived, they assisted in defeating the remainder of the enemy forces (00:58:20:00)  Initially, the senior medic in Vazquez’s team took care of Vazquez’s wounds, after which Vazquez was evacuated back to Saigon, where he stayed for one night before going to Yokohama, Japan (00:59:09:00) Vazquez spent four-and a half months in Japan, all of which was recovery time for his wound (00:59:38:00) o Initially, the doctors told Vazquez he would be in the hospital for six months but if he worked hard in the physical therapy, he could make the time spent in the hospital short (00:59:54:00) o After four and a half months in Japan, Vazquez transferred to Womack Army Hospital at Fort Bragg, where he spent another two months (01:00:11:00) Once Vazquez got out of the hospital, he had to pass the Special Forces physical test a second time to be assigned back to Special Forces, which he did (01:00:37:00) o Vazquez completed the physical test late in 1968 and was then sent back to Panama to rejoin the 8th Special Forces Group (01:01:02:00) o When the commander of 8th Special Forces heard about Vazquez being wounded, he sent a letter to Vazquez saying that although Vazquez had declined promotions �before, given that he had been wounded, the commander suggested Vazquez accept a promotion straight to captain (01:01:18:00) o At the same time Vazquez received his promotion to captain, the 75th Ranger Regiment was short of commanding officers, so Vazquez transferred to the regiment (01:02:29:00) 3rd Vietnam Deployment / Reflections (01:02:38:00)  When Vazquez arrived back in Vietnam to join the 75th Rangers, he was assigned command of “D” Company; however, the battalion that the company was part of was reorganizing and the battalion commander wanted Vazquez to be his XO (01:02:38:00) o Vazquez declined the offer to be the battalion XO because he wanted to be a combat company commander, which meant staying in combat (01:03:01:00) o Eventually, a lieutenant colonel who had been Vazquez’s company commander heard Vazquez was a company commander in the 75th Rangers, visited the Ranger camp, and told Vazquez that Vazquez was being reassigned to the lieutenant colonel’s unit in the 101st Airborne, 2nd Battalion of the 506th Airborne Regiment, where Vazquez was made a company commander (01:03:37:00)  Vazquez joined the 506th Airborne in January 1969 (01:04:23:00) o However, when Vazquez first joined the regiment, the company commander he was meant to replace still had some time left on his tour, so Vazquez spent time with 187th Airborne Regiment until the previous company commander’s tour finally ended (01:04:39:00)  During his time with the 187th Airborne, Vazquez worked as an S-5, which involved helping look for intelligence (01:05:10:00) o During the first couple of months with his company, Vazquez and the company went on numerous missions, such as providing support and protection for various firebases (01:06:32:00)  At the time, the only major difference between serving in the 101st Airborne and a regular infantry line company was that in the 101st, the soldiers deployed to their positions via helicopter (01:06:01:00)  However, the tendency was to land an entire company in the same location, something that Vazquez did not like; because Vazquez knew his commander, he changed the procedure so that not all three of his platoons landed at the same area (01:07:12:00)  Whenever the company deployed into the jungle, Vazquez had several different landing zones chosen as both primary and secondary locations (01:07:55:00)  After Vazquez instituted the change, the other companies in the regiment operated in a similar fashion (01:08:13:00) o In April, 1970, Vazquez and his company moved to a series of hills, near the proposed site of Firebase Ripcord,1:08:34:00)  Another company [actually two other companies on separate occasions] had gone onto the hill by helicopter but had been driven out, but Vazquez's company climbed up on foot and held it. (01:08:54:00)  During the first night Vazquez’s company was on Ripcord, the enemy launched an attack (01:09:03:00) � The way Vazquez had set up his defenses, he had one platoon positioned to the right and another platoon positioned to the left, so when the enemy attack came, he was able to counter attack with the remaining platoon and successfully cleared the area of enemy soldiers (01:09:13:00)  While in the 101st, Vazquez had very good platoon leaders; one of leaders had been in the ROTC while another was graduate of the military academy at West Point (01:09:38:00)  During the enemy night attack, Vazquez chose to launch his counter attack at night; attacking at night was not common amongst regular infantry units but it was common amongst forces (01:10:13:00)  According to Vazquez’s training, if his unit was attacked, they immediately launched a counter-attack to clear the area of enemy soldiers (01:10:23:00)  After the attack on the first night, Vazquez helped in setting up the perimeter defenses for the entire firebase (01:10:44:00)  Vazquez finally left Ripcord just before the operation turned in favor of the enemy (01:11:06:00)  While his company was on Ripcord, Vazquez always kept two platoons on the base while the third platoon was always in the field (01:11:33:00)  Occasionally, the enemy would launch probing attacks against the base but they were never able to fully penetrate the base’s outer defenses and get inside the perimeter (01:11:52:00)  Initially, the soldiers constructed bunkers higher on the hill where the base was located while Vazquez and his company were located lower on the sides of the hill in “L” trenches; “L” trenches allowed the soldiers to defend in two directions (01:12:20:00) o The “L” trenches did not have too much in the way of overhead cover, maybe enough for one or two soldiers to take cover under (01:12:56:00) o However, being in the trenches meant the soldiers presented much smaller targets for the enemy; if a soldier was walking about fully exposed, then the enemy might launch an RPG into the position (01:13:11:00)  At the time Vazquez rotated out of Ripcord, his company was at almost full strength; as far as Vazquez can remember, the company only suffered a handful of casualties (01:13:36:00) o After he left Ripcord, Vazquez became the S-4 officer for the 2nd Battalion, which meant he moved back to Camp Evans; once at Camp Evans, Vazquez worked in providing support to all the units in the battalion, not just those units stationed on Ripcord (01:14:20:00)  When the soldiers went into Ripcord, the firebase was located on a hill lower than two of the mountains in the same area (01:15:26:00)  On both sides of the base were mountains high enough that the enemy could launch artillery and mortar strikes onto the base (01:15:35:00) � Initially, the enemy several unsuccessful attempts to penetrate the base, all of which were stopped by Vazquez’s various perimeter defenses, such as 55 gallon drums full of napalm buried in the ground, straight wire [he used conventional barbed wire as well as concertina wire, since the enemy could not use ladders to press down the straight wire], and artillery fire pinpointed to specific locations (01:15:54:00) o Vazquez went back to Ripcord two days before the final withdrawal from the firebase to help create the plan for how to effectively withdraw all the troops and the equipment (01:16:57:00)  Vazquez had the plan developed but the day that the withdrawal was supposed to begin, one of the C-46 transports being used crashed into the bunkers, brought down by enemy gunfire (01:17:15:00)  Vazquez’s withdrawal plan went ahead and they successfully withdrew all the soldiers on the firebase as well as the artillery pieces, with Vazquez’s XO staying on the firebase until the last gun was taken out (01:18:11:00)  During the withdrawal, Vazquez traveled to Ripcord twice and both times, it was often under very heavy enemy gunfire; however, once on the firebase, Vazquez used his helicopter to help ferry wounded soldiers off the firebase (01:18:32:00) o Overall, the primary mission at Ripcord was positioning 155mm and 105mm artillery pieces to fire onto enemy supply depots in the A Shau valley, a mission that was accomplished (01:19:28:00)  When the order was given to withdraw, the soldiers had to withdraw; it was not their fault that the fighting at the firebase failed to go in their favor (01:20:14:00)  Vazquez did not want to rotate off the firebase because he knew that even if the enemy attacked with four or five battalions, the perimeter defenses were good enough that the enemy were not going to be able to break through (01:20:19:00) o During the time Vazquez was commanding the company on Ripcord, the morale amongst the soldiers was very high because Vazquez commanded his unit from the front (01:20:56:00)  Vazquez led from the front because if the company was ever hit, he wanted to know exactly what was happening (01:21:15:00)  Although conventional wisdom holds if someone is at the front, then they are likely one of the first ones hit but Vazquez shrugs that wisdom off, saying “if you are in the first squad and you get hit, then you get hit”; however, being in the first squad meant Vazquez knew where the enemy was attacking from and what their strengths were, which meant he could use his own forces accordingly (01:21:31:00)  When Vazquez took over command of his company, Vazquez talked with the previous company commander for a couple of hours and the previous commander warned Vazquez that there were two or three soldiers in the company that the commander struggled with (01:22:13:00) �      Sometimes, the soldiers did not want to go into the field or do other assignments (01:22:40:00)  Other than that handful of soldiers, the previous commander said that the rest of the company was pretty good (01:22:47:00)  The first thing Vazquez did when he took command of the company was talk to the handful of troublemakers and made it clear that when the company moved, everyone in the company moved (01:22:52:00)  Vazquez does not recall ever having any problems with the supposed troublemakers (01:23:28:00)  Once back on Camp Evans, Vazquez assumes there were more troublemakers but he did not worry about them because they were not his problem (01:23:56:00) o While Vazquez commanded the company, there was not much in the way of racial tension that divided the company (01:24:15:00) Vazquez was originally supposed to leave Vietnam at a certain date but he missed the flight because he was still helping with operations around Ripcord (01:24:42:00) o No one from the brigade could find Vazquez and they eventually became upset with him because he had missed his flight out; eventually, the battalion commander personally flew out and took Vazquez back to the division headquarters (01:25:08:00) After Vazquez left Vietnam, he returned to the Special Forces school at Fort Bragg and after finishing his captain’s commission [as the army downsized after Vietnam, many captains were "riffed", reduced in rank to NCOs], became the command sergeant major for the school (01:25:49:00) o Vazquez stayed at the school until 1980 before leaving active-duty and joining the reserves, although he only stayed in the reserves for a brief period, having finally had enough of the Army (01:26:38:00) After retiring from the Army, Vazquez took a job working as a logistics manager for a corporation (01:27:02:00) o While stationed at Fort Bragg for the last time, having already completed his bachelors degree, Vazquez obtained a masters degree and then a PhD in Business Administration (01:27:19:00) Going as far back as his time serving in Korea, Vazquez recognized that there was a certain part of the American public, including the media, that maintained an anti-war sentiment (01:28:10:00) o When Vazquez and the other soldiers returned from Korea, most Americans did not know what the Korean war was even about (01:28:23:00) o When the soldiers came back from Vietnam, Americans everywhere were parading against the war, but Vazquez paid little attention to them because it was not his problem (01:28:36:00) Vazquez has written a book focusing on his experiences during both the Korean and Vietnam wars, as well as his life and experiences in general (01:28:56:00) o According to Vazquez, the most important thing in the book to him was not his overall service in Korea or Vietnam but a specific incident involving the 65th Infantry in Korea after he left (01:29:31:00) �  After Vazquez left the unit, a large number of the soldiers were courtmartialed and the commander of the 2nd Battalion was relived of his duties (01:30:04:00)  There have been a lot of things written about the incident that were lies about situations and events that Vazquez was involved in (01:30:12:00) o While reading through the Department of Defense and Department of the Army records, Vazquez realized the people writing in the records were not on the ground during the situations they were writing about (01:31:04:00)  The records talked about a certain hill and the fighting that occurred there; in reality, Vazquez had served at that location three different times and the records did not accurately portray what happened (01:31:32:00)  In another record, the 2nd Battalion commander was ridiculed for giving up the hill where Vazquez served when in reality, the commander and two of his companies attacked and reoccupied the position for fifteen days, eventually having to retreat from the hill in the face of increasing Chinese artillery fire (01:32:49:00) One lesson Vazquez learned while in Vietnam and Korea was never to withdraw from a position because he would eventually have to come back to retake the position (01:35:50:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VazquezI1279V Title A name given to the resource Vazquez, Isabelino (Interview transcript and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Vazquez, Isabelino Description An account of the resource Isabelino Vazquez was born and grew up in Puerto Rico and was drafted into the Army in 1951 at the age of nineteen years old. Once drafted, Vazquez went through training in Puerto Rico before deploying to Korea and fighting in the Korean War. He served as an infantryman in the 7th Infantry for twelve months, and then as a platoon leader in the all-Puerto Rican 65th Regiment for two months. After Korea, Vazquez briefly left the military before re-enlisting and completing jump school, after which he served in both the 82nd and 11th Airborne Divisions, with the latter division while the division was in Germany. When he returned to the United States, Vazquez completed the training for the Army Special Forces and traveled between the different special forces groups, including the 8th Special Forces Group in the Panama Canal Zone and the 1st Special Forces Group stationed on Okinawa, Japan. While with the 1st Special Forces, Vazquez did a short tour in Vietnam helping train South Vietnamese Special Forces and nurses. After completing the short tour with the 1st Special Forces, Vasquez briefly returned to the States to join the 5th Special Forces Group before the group deployed to the Mekong Delta region of Vietnam. During his second deployment, the enemy wounded Vasquez, forcing his evacuation, first to Japan then to the States. Once out of the hospital, Vasquez served a short period with the 75th Ranger before joining the 506th Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division as a company commander. While with the 506th Infantry, Vasquez helped set of the defenses for Firebase Ripcord, site of one of the last major battles involving American forces in Vietnam. When Vasquez left his company command, he served as a battalion S-4 before returning to the States and eventually retiring in 1980. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-10-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9edbf696029cf8c5ff3a3e463f130dcc.mp4 31fbdf109d2430559b57739580860394 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4950ac632c3e6f4650519f35ca1914a0.pdf 65ddfe95e9beed639ae2f99d30956578 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Name of War: Vietnam War Interviewee’s Name: William VanderWoude Length of Interview: 10 minutes Pre-Enlistment (00:11)  Childhood (00:12) o VanderWoude was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on September 11, 1948. (00:23)  Education (00:28) o Attended parochial school through high school. (00:32) Enlistment/Basic Training (00:41)  Why he joined up (00:42) o Was drafted under number 168 in November, 1971 into the U.S. Army at the age of 23 while holding a full-time job in teaching high school kids. (00:47)  Where he went (01:20) o Describes in some detail what training was like while at Fort Knox, Kentucky for 8 to 10 weeks. (02:00) Active Duty (02:17)  Background (02:24) o After basic training, because he had graduated college with mathematics major he had three options. These included reenlisting for another year, going to officer’s candidate school, or handling nuclear missiles. Was then sent to Fort Sill, Oklahoma where he served his time during the course of the Vietnam War. (02:51) o Describes the feelings among nuclear testers such as himself who served there about not being sent to Vietnam. (03:09)  Fort Sill, OK (03:15) �o Describes what base life was like with all the responsibilities and rules he had. (03:49) o Further describes what he did to pass the time and what the food was like while stationed on base. (04:30) o Made reference to the close relationships he formed while in the military and who he kept in contact with. (05:04) o Served in the armed forces from November, 1971 to August, 1973 when he went back home to teach high school kids. Initially, he mentions signing a teaching contract o get out the Army early to go back to teaching. (05:38) After the Service (05:53)  Readjusting to Home (06:06) o Briefly mentions how tough it was to cope with the attitudes of civilians towards army men once they returned to their normal lives. (06:29) o Following the Vietnam War, VanderWoude mentions going back to teaching high school kids. (06:56)  Reflection (07:15) o Describes in some detail what his military experience taught him; his best memories, and what he took away from the experiences as a whole. (08:40) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanderWoudeW Title A name given to the resource VanderWoude, William (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource VanderWoude, William Description An account of the resource William VanderWoude is a Vietnam Era veteran, who served in the U.S. Army from November, 1971 to August, 1973. In this account, VanderWoude discusses his pre-enlistment, enlistment and basic training. VanderWoude briefly describes what his active duty experience was like as a nuclear missiles' tester in Fort Sill, Oklahoma. VanderWoude concludes by sharing his thoughts about his time in the service. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Greengard, Meredith (Interviewer) Martinez, Elissa (Interviewer) Forest Hills Eastern High School (Ada, Mich.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401 Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-06-03 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7ca2c2a980d9e027122bf2d0ea3e2624.mp4 d6e701b7e5fab668215350cec2487216 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2f5ec1da32eaf985fabc5dcd48f0a5d8.pdf 197655c9218c273117e05600c81d0066 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Harry Vanderstow World War II Total Time: 17:11 Pre-War (00:02) • • • • Born in 1926. His parents were farmers, and he had 2 brothers and 1 sister. He worked on the Farm and went to school before the war. He was drafted into the Army in 1944. Training (03:20) • • Left for training on September 1st, 1944. Basic training was not too difficult for him. Active Duty (04:20) • • • • • • • • • • Served in France, Germany and Austria. He was scared a lot of the time, and did not enjoy his experience in the Army very much. Spent his passes going to London and Paris. He was in the fight for the city of Mannheim. He stayed in touch with his family at home via letters. Spent much of his downtime sleeping. They would have one man on guard and the other two men slept when they were in the foxholes. They carried wool GI blankets, which he slept on. He was awakened in the night to be told that the war had ended. He went over to Europe on the Queen Mary and came back to the US on the Queen Elizabeth. He was initially supposed to come back to the US after the war had ended in Europe and train for an invasion of Japan. However, the Atomic Bomb was dropped on Japan and they surrendered before he could go. He worked as a desk clerk at a camp in Arkansas until he was discharged. Post-War (11:45) • He did an ok job of adjusting to life out of the Army. • He maintained some contact with the friends he made in the army. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanderstowH Title A name given to the resource Vanderstow, Harry (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Vanderstow, Harry Description An account of the resource Harry Vanderstow was born in 1926 and served in World War II. Vanderstow was drafted into the Army in 1944. He served in France, Germany, and Austria as a regular in the Infantry. He also worked at a desk job at a camp in Arkansas after the war was over Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Olson, Elisabeth (Interviewer) Vaughn, Stephanie (Interviewer) Saranac High School (Saranac, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-08-12 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ee93326950a822191da08842792e4554.mp4 2eb49acd3ba48cbcd671e8ea8fd468ca https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dbbb73e278fa2c2a7a3c95c9e0ed9bc9.pdf f9573035b285c94bf3a7966b6a2dd9cf PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Jim VanderMoere Length of interview (1:01:52) (:10) Background/Drafted • (:10) He was born and raised in Grand Rapids, Michigan and went to high school there. • (:26) He turned eighteen in January of 1943. The drafted went on steadily throughout this time. Some of the men in his class were drafted before they graduated, but the principal managed to have their drafts delayed until after graduation. • (:52) He graduated from Central High school and was drafted on 6/11/1943, and was at the Great Lakes Naval Training Station on 6/22/1943. • (1:23) His family was fortunate during the Great Depression. His father was an office worker, and although he had to change jobs frequently he usually had a job. He worked at Metropolitan Life Insurance once. • (1:55) He heard about the Pearl Harbor attacks that afternoon. The radio broadcast was interrupted for the report. He had not heard of Pearl Harbor until that time. From then on the news followed reports of the war more closely. • (2:20) He did not really follow the war prior to the Pearl Harbor attacks. The war was a frequent source of discussion while he in high school. A friend of his decided to drop out and enlist in the Navy. He later wished he had known, and he probably would have joined him. • (3:03) His teachers had them perform exercises while still in school to ready them for military training. He was drafted by the Kent County draft board. • (3:54) He took a train with two friends to Detroit, Michigan. He was rejected because his blood sample was too old, and his other friend was rejected because of his poor eyesight. The third man was the only accepted, and he was only seventeen. • (5:22) He decided to join the Navy when he was drafted. They were given the option for the Marines, the Navy, or the Army. The option was not given when any branch had staff shortages. • (5:57) He had liked the outdoors, and had been in the Boy Scouts and the sea Scouts. (6:22) Training • (6:22) All the administration was done from Detroit. Ten or eleven men from his high school were in boot camp with him. He had to catch up with them because he had been delayed from the paperwork. He took a Greyhound bus. • (7:16) He had Basic training at Great Lakes, Illinois. It was very physical and they had frequent drills. They had companies of about seventy-five men. Since it was July, Basic was very hot. �• (8:23) They did not call the “drill sergeants” sergeant. Most of them were recently graduated CPO’s who were a little older than they were. Most of them were fair. • (9:03) Most of the draftees were younger men. Some older men had enlisted as well. Some of the older men dropped out, or were eased out because they couldn’t keep up with the training physically. • (9:50) Near the end of boot camp he was given a choice on how to advance. He had taken frequent aptitude tests while he was in the Navy. He had wanted to be a gunner, or a machinist, or possibly a radioman. He was disqualified from being on an aircraft carrier because of his aptitude tests. He did not agree with it at the time, but didn’t do anything about it. He chose to go to diesel school. • (11:24) He went to diesel school at Navy Pier, which was very close. He had about five hundred men in his company this time. It was a good school, and he learned how to service small diesel engines. The instructor told them they would probably be on a small landing craft, and emphasized the importance of such craft. He was later given the option of being a submariner, and decided to take it because it had better pay and better food. • (13:03) About fifty men were eligible to be submariners. This was where he met his friend Don Bennett. At the time, he did not think of the dangers of being a submariner and saw it as an adventure. • (13:46) Next he was put into Spritz’s Navy. Spritz was a tough and mean man. He was tested frequently while in Spritz’s Navy. He had psychiatric tests frequently. One of the testers asked him if he was related to Johnny Vandermeer, a baseball player who had had a good season that year. He is not related to Johnny Vandermeer. He also had constant physicals. • (15:12) Many of the men did not pass the physicals. Others could not keep up with the classes. Diesel school was much different from boot camp. They went out on an old S-boat which had been built in 1918 or 1919 for practice. It was old and rusty. • (16:17) The first time he was on board a sub it was an old rusty sub. They gradually worked up to better quality, and larger submarines. They only dived about twenty or thirty feet in the older subs, and had to be very delicate with them. • (17:08) He knew submarines very well by the time he was on active duty. One of the options was for men to learn how to use the electric subs. Another option was to work at various shipyards. (17:37)Deployed/Service Crew • (17:37) The crews were made from a combination of new men and veterans. • (18:28) He was on a troop transport within two days of graduating. On the way, he saw a man he had gone to high school with, and a former neighbor. They were assigned to duty alphabetically, so he was separated from his friend Bennett. He stayed overnight on Treasure Island. • (19:40) He was sent out on a Liberty ship. He slept in one of the many holes. He thought the ship was very crowded, and too full at the time. The ship also had tugboats, and other supplies on board. They had an on-deck shower. �• (20:38) They were on the ship for twenty-eight days. They went to Milne Bay, New Guinea. They saw one plane during the trip, but it turned out to be an American plane. This was during 1944. • (22:03) The area was jungle, and the men enjoyed some of the local food. Some of the men got sick after eating coconuts. They had to take tablets for malaria, which made them yellow after awhile. They were in this area for about ten or twelve days, and unloaded goods keep busy. • (22:45) They were put on a landing craft, and then put on the H.M.A.S. Westralia without much notice. The Westralia was an early cruise liner, and it had just come back from the landing at Hollandia, New Guinea. They were sent to Sydney, Australia. The Westralia was a large ship, and the bunks were four or five beds deep. • (23:33) He continued to wait for submarine duty, and was not notified of any future developments. They stayed in Sydney, Australia for one night. Then they were sent out by rail, on the only railroad at the time. Each railway had their own gauges, so they had to change cars frequently. They threw bread to the aborigines on the way. • (24:40) They arrived in Perth, Australia and then went to Fremantle by truck. Next they were assigned to the U.S.S. Orion a sub tender. He was assigned a bunk, and was put on menial labor to start out. • (25:47) A “tender” is a ship which carries on board everything a submarine needs; a foundry, a wood-working section, everything. The relief crew would repair the subs after each patrol. The subs were repaired for two weeks. He was in Australia about eight months, and Australia was a good duty. • (27:49) They had gas and food rationing in Australia, and the taxis used charcoal. After awhile, he and some other men began to itch for a more active duty. The Sunfish (which Bennett was on) was a “thin-skin” submarine and went about three hundred feet beneath surfaces. He wanted to go on a “thick skin” submarines, which could go about five hundred feet beneath the surface. The Blenny was a thick skin submarine. He was later assigned to the Blenny. He and Bennett could have been assigned to the Flyer, which exploded after hitting a mine. (30:37) Submarine Duty • (30:37) On February 5th, 1945 he was assigned to the Blenny. The crews were rotated frequently, and many of the men completed their duty in Australia. They went to the Lombok Straits, which were used to enter Indonesia. The straits were deept, and impossible to mine. It was also about one thousand miles away. • (32:19) The subs patrolled alone, and they went near French Indochina, as it was called then. • (32:47) On their first patrol they had problems with the torpedoes—they smoked. A Japanese destroyer dropped fifteen depth charges on them. He was in the aft torpedo room and served as part of the reload crew at the time. Part of the sink came off, and the lights went out during the depth charge. They also had lightning inside the sub from the electrical equipment in the control room. �• • • • • • • • • • • • (34:42) After the first depth charge he asked the cook, if the depth charge had been particularly bad. The cook told him “you dummy, if it was any worse, you wouldn’t be standing there!” It had been a very close call, apparently. (35:11) They sank a number of Japanese ships on the patrol. They sank a 10,000 pound tanker, a 7,500 ton freighter, two 4,000 ton freighters, and they damaged two 10,000 ton tankers. It was a night attack out of Cam Ranh Bay. The tankers were filled gasoline, and had escorts. They had planned the attacks with radar, and compensated for enemy evasion. (31:45) They fired four torpedoes at the first target, and broke it in two with two or three hits. They fired another two at a secondary target, and two more at a third. The second two were damaged, but not sunk. Sinking an enemy ship was initially joyous occasion, but then it became a somber one. (37:28) On the second patrol, they sank a freighter, and a small sub-chaser in a bay while they were anchored. They used the electric motor to be quieter, and again attack at night. One of the men in the torpedo room fired a torpedo and then ran up to the deck in time to see the torpedo hit the target. Their skipper was a very brave man. (39:31) They used their equipment to the fullest. The torpedoes continued to be an issue, but it was mostly taken care of by 1945. Jim thinks the men who designed the torpedoes did not want to admit their failures with the torpedo, which was why it took so long for them to be fixed. (40:33) The worst attack was on their last patrol as the war was winding down. The Japanese had begun to be more careful with their depth charges because they had a shortage of resources. They also used anything for transport because of ship shortages. (41:31) They had left Fremantle on about the Fourth of July, 1945. They went into the Gulf of Siam, which was blockaded by subs. (42:08) On the last patrol, they sank sixty-three vessels within forty-five days, which was a Navy record in the area. They stopped with other American subs to reload on ammunition in order to continue their patrol. (42:50) They had an ice cream machine on the sub. At one point the gear broke, and was repaired by one of them men. After the war, they joked with some other men that they nearly ended the patrol when the ice cream machine broke. (43:39) A fire once broke out in the number four motor, and the rigging on the submarine broke. They debated ending the patrol, but decided to repair the sub instead. They dove to three hundred and seventy-two feet in order to repair it. It took more than a day. Afterwards they surfaced, and the skipper opened the hatch. The change in pressure was large enough that the sub jumped and he cut his head. They had few accidents on subs, mostly men falling. He has a saying that there are “no Purple Hearts in the submarine service, we went all out or all back.” (45:45) One of the men simply broke during a depth charge attack. He was soon transferred. This was an unusual occurrence, probably because they had been tested so rigorously. (46:40) During their last patrol they sank sailboats that were carrying supplies to the Japanese. They would take the crew onto the submarine, search the boat, and �then sink it if they found anything. After about twenty to thirty evacuations they had to drop off all the civilians. They usually dropped them off on a larger sailboat. Eventually they had a cockroach problem because of all the transfers on and off the sub. • (48:01) The skipper wanted to sink a tugboat and eventually they found a tugboat that they ran aground. One of the men on the tugboat had jumped off the ship and ran to a nearby island. He was nearly hit, but not hurt, by an artillery shell and badly scared. They burned the barges the tugboat had been hauling. The war ended the fifteenth of August. • (49:15) They made “trim dives” to clean the subs after patrol. They had two radars, one for aircraft and one for ships. The radarman said “all clear” once, thinking that all the radar blips were islands and they surfaced right under an enemy aircraft. The enemy plane promptly dropped a bomb at them, but missed. This happened eight days before the war ended. • (50:51) The Cod was part of the blockade on the Japanese. An enemy plane made a strafing run at them while they were surfaced, and some of the men jumped off the sub and onto the ship to avoid the gunfire. They were later tracked down by the sub. • (52:44) They had all expected the war to end soon, and followed the news. He remembered the news about the nuclear tests. • (53:25) They had heard about the bombing in Japan, and were ordered to cut the patrol short and to go home. • (54:00) On the Blenny’s first patrol (which he was not on) they had found an enemy troop transport and fired at it. They missed because the periscope had been on the wrong resolution. The Japanese recovered the torpedoes and used them. (55:31) Post-War • (55:31) Usually after a patrol they had two weeks as a break. On his last patrol they had only two or three days because the patrol was shorter. The subs in the area formed a group to depart. • (56:07) The Admiral gave a speech on board each sub. The subs left by way of Guam Harbor, and then split up. He saw many ships on the way, and got on a supply boat to see if a friend from his church was on board. Bill Bass was not onboard, and he got in trouble for leaving the sub. He had had to spend the night on the supply boat because of an engine malfunction. The subs and ships made practice runs in the bay. • (58:39) On the way home they stopped in Pearl Harbor for one day, and then he went to San Diego, Claifornia. He visited Hollywood and then took a troop train to Illinois and then passed his boot camp on the way home. He was discharged on March 6th, 1945. • (59:27) He has been in submarine conventions since the 1950’s. The skipper has since passed away. • (1:00:08) He did not like school much. He was overseas while on duty for twenty-two months. After the Navy, he had some “rough edges” and drank which his mother did not approve of. His father advised he go to college, to smooth his “rough edges” and he went to Davenport. He became an insurance agent and �married in 1948. He had five children, and delivered three of them at his home. He had three daughters and two sons. One of them is an air traffic controller in Chicago. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VanderMoereJ Title A name given to the resource VanderMoere, Jim (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource VanderMoere, Jim Description An account of the resource Jim Vandermoere was born and raised in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He was drafted on June 11, 1943 and started training at Great Lakes, Illinois eleven days later. He decided to join the Navy, and decided to become a submariner because it offered better pay and better food. He served in a relief crew on the sub tender U.S.S. Orion for eight months while in Australia. He was assigned to the submarine U.S.S. Blenny on February 5, 1945. He served on patrols near Indonesia and Southeast Asia. He served overseas for twenty-two months. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Montagna, Douglas (Interviewer) Great Lakes Naval Memorial & Museum (Muskegon, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-10-16 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives