10 24 228 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/37018e9c970b1ad7a42123bad7b5d54c.mp4 902bc5212fc07f2cda2aff2c3f64debc https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f0b0aa7c0ecb24dd3c131d83e89d1251.pdf b4ea4f520cb2bfa4fe3e8d812c68f716 PDF Text Text RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Chuck Baisden Date of interview: June 8, 1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FB: Chuck, we'd like to begin with, what were you doing prior to hearing about the opportunity in China? CB: Well, I was stationed in at Mitchell Field on Long Island with the 57th Interceptor Group and we went up to Windsor Locks, Trumbull Field on gunnery, I think it was April '41. And when we got up there, why we were told there was going to be a meeting. Trumbull Field had an old building that I think had been a mill one time and I was going to have a meeting. So we went to the meeting and they closed all the doors and all that sort of stuff and Skip Adair… FB: Please start again, from the beginning. CB: From the beginning, OK, I was at Mitchell Field, we went up to Groton, Connecticut, at Trumbull, and we were up there for gunnery. and we got a notice on the bulletin board there was going to be a guy there talking to us about, we didn't know what, anyway, we went into the building, and they closed the doors and Skip Adair was there to meet us and he gave us this, which at that time was sort of a song and dance, but he said we need people to go to China to patrol the road up there and we're going to build airplanes over there. And I was Staff Sgt. at the time I was making $72 a month and the question came up are you going to travel for a year? And the pay was $350 a month in 1941, $350 a month was a lot of money and of course I was, just turned 21. So I, bunch of us, [?] Sheffield and I, we put our names on the list and then we, nothing more happened, we went back to Mitchell Field and one day they said go down to base administration - they wanted to talk to you, so we went down to the basement, they had the blinds drawn - they had a rack of civilian clothes and we all got our pictures taken and I had GI uniform on and some kind of a sport coat on and then a fellow said, "What's your job?' I said "Well I'm the aircraft armor." "What do you do?" I said "Well, I take care of machine guns and load bombs and etc., etc. "You're a metal worker." I said "No that's different. I'm an armorer." "You're a metal worker." And he finally convinced me that's what was on my passport so I went overseas as a metal worker and I heard some of the other fellows went over as all kinds of things, but that's what I went overseas as. FB: What were you doing prior to hearing about the opportunity in China? CB: Well, my unit was in Mitchell Field, Long Island New York, 57th Pursuit Group. Col. Phil Cochran was the CO. Phil Cochran was, or actually Phil Corkin?. Anyway, we went up to Groton with the 33rd squadron to do gunnery at Trumbull Field and while we was 1 �there, they told us to report to the main building for an interview. And it turned out it was Skip Adair. And he gave us a presentation of going to China to do patrol on the area there over, I guess it was Loiwing to keep the Japs from bombing the place while we assembled airplanes. And he also gave us the one year contract and being that I was making $72 a month as a Staff Sgt., $350 really impressed me. So that's how it got started. We went back to Mitchell Field and in, I forget the month of it, we were told to report to Base Administration, and the State Dept. was there taking pictures and they had us all lined up with civilian clothes so we had our pictures taken and at the time they asked me what I did. I told them I was aircraft armorer. When they wanted to know what an armorer was I told them, and they said "No, you're a metal worker." I said "No, I'm an armorer, that's different." "No you're a metal worker." That's what I went over as, as a metal worker on my passport. And I got discharged from the Air Corps on June 2nd, no I'm wrong, I got discharged May 24th from the Air Force, continuance of the Government discharge, they made us turn in all our field equipment but they let us keep our shoes and part of our uniform, we had to cut the buttons off and then on the June 2nd I signed the contract with Camp Co, at the Rockefeller Plaza. FB: What did you know about China at this time? CB: Absolutely nothing. FB: Once again, I knew absolutely nothing about China. CB: About China, I knew absolutely nothing. That was a place I hadn't been to and I wanted to see. That's about all I could say at the time. I didn't know anything about their customs or like you said, I knew nothing about China. FB: What did you know or hear about through news reels or anything like that about Japan or what was going on in China? CB: Other than we thought, I think most of us thought, that a couple companies of Marines could probably go in and clean their clocks, that's about what we thought. We didn't know nothing about the Japanese. You take them looking at a, maybe our powers that be did, I don't know, after Pearl Harbor, I don't think our powers that be knew everything they're supposed to know. FB: In terms, you mentioned that somebody told you about the AVG, but how did you actually hear about this opportunity? What was the process? CB: I believe there was a notice on the bulletin board. No I, when we first heard about the AVG, it wasn't called the AVG, it was tied up with the Camp Co, or Continental Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation. was the cover and I really don't, I think it was on the bulletin board, but I really don't remember. FB: What was your motivation, and why get involved in this? I mean, were you satisfied with where you were, or? 2 �CB: Well, I was the Staff Sgt., I'd been through Air Corps. Tech. School and I was perfectly happy and I went in the service in 1939, 1941, I was a Staff Sgt., Air Corps. was expanding and I was not unhappy with what I was doing, in fact I liked work. But I also liked to travel, and let's face it, there was the money consideration. And like I said, it was $72 as compared to $350 and you finished your contract, you got $500 bonus and that's really the reason I went. I didn't have any dumpses?, I didn't like the, when I went in I had planned to spend my 20 or 30 and get off, I was going to be career airman, because the military was something that I was always interested in. FB: What was it that Skip Adair told you in terms of what you were to be doing and what to expect? CB: Well, when Skip Adair was talking to us at Trumbull Field I really didn't understand too much of what we'd be doing, we'd have a fighter squadron there, a fighter group, and whatever your job was that's what you would work on and that was about all we knew. We were just going to another country and to get paid for, that's really about all I knew about it. FB: Could you describe for us the process? If you could describe for us the process of resigning your commission and what was it you actually had to do and did you have any difficulties in getting out? CB: Well, when they came to get me out of the service, I was an enlisted man. I didn't resign no commission. I had a Staff Sgt. pin at war which they gave us at that time, but it was all automatic - we just reported in for discharge and got rid of our clothing and they gave us an honorable discharge convenience of the Government and we went out of the base. That was the end of it. There was no, in fact, I don't know whether it was a relief or what, when I went through the gate, I said well I'm starting a new something or other and anyway, when I went off base I was running around with a gal in Weehawken, New Jersey at the time, so I had to go see her. That's Ft. Willis time. And on the bus going back, I lost my wallet, $150 bucks lost. So when I got home I was broke and my dad said where are you going? I said I'm going to China, yes I'm making $350, he said well I'm making $50 a week so he said be my guest. So that was the whole story of it. Went down to Sunbury, Sunbury, Pennsylvania. and Carl Bugler, and I think it was Rich Graham and we went by train to L.A. and there was a whole bunch of us on the train and I remember stopping in Wyoming and Johnny Fauth and a bunch of them wanted pistols and you stop at Cheyenne, Wyoming, and you can go to the nearest pawn shop and buy the whole store out if you had the money, so we took Johnny Fauth and a bunch of them and I bought them all pistols. Being I was supposed to be the expert, I really wasn't. They thought I was. And we bought a bunch of pistols and stopped in Cheyenne. We went on to west coast and then they put us up at the Jonathan Club and that was, they made a big mistake at the Jonathan Club. Here's a bunch of young GI's that just retired and everybody thinks there, whatever you want to call them, and guys started running up phone bills, that's the first time in my life I ever had grapefruit served in a silver container with a big spoon and 3 �all of that stuff, and I thought, boy we're living high on cotton right now. They moved us out of there and we went by bus to San Francisco. FB: I would like to get a little more detail. Could you describe your own personal observations, your reactions, arriving at the Jonathan Club in Los Angeles? CB: Well, we got off the train and I think we took a taxi to the Jonathan Club and walked in to it and it was a big, old building, soft leather chairs, and all that sort of stuff and looked to me like there was a bunch of, I didn't know at the time what they were, they were very dignified gentlemen, gray haired, I found out later more of them were retired Admirals and Captains and Generals and what have you, how they let our bunch in there, I have no idea but maybe the [?] had something to do with it. And I was very impressed with the meals and the being served by a butler and in the meantime the fellows were having quite a time, they were just turned loose and here we've been under fairly strict discipline and marching from point A to point B with everything buttoned up and we were turned loose, fellows started running up long distance phone calls and charging this and charging that and I think the bills got out of hand and in the meantime, Joe Poshefko, my friend, came down with appendicitis and they had to take him to the hospital. He was one of the reasons he didn't make our, he was on the original bus that went over but he didn't make it on account that he had had appendicitis and because I just know at the time I was just wondering what happened to Joe, I thought he had just gone over the hill or something, but he hadn't, he was sick. And other than that, I don't remember too much about the Jonathan Club, everything is sort of hazy, what went on there. FB: Now once the decision was made to leave the Jonathan Club, I understand you were going to San Francisco, I wonder if you could describe how you got to San Francisco? CB: Well, when we left the Jonathan Club, for San Francisco, we went by bus. On a chartered bus. And I remember going up there - it was hotter than a pistol. The fellows got us a big old washtub and they filled it fill with ice and they filled it full of booze and beer and we got about half way up there and I remember getting off the bus, we had a short rest stop. There was no facilities. So have you ever seen about 15 guys lined up along the highway doing their thing? And most of them were pretty well smashed. But I can remember that because I took a picture of when I was there. I think the driver was glad to get rid of us when we got to San Francisco. And I don't remember even the name of the hotel that we stayed at when we got to San Francisco. I remember we spent the night there, I don't remember where we stayed, we didn't stay there very long, they got us on a boat to get our butts out of there. I think the States were about as glad to get rid of us as anything else. FB: Now, at this time it was around June 1941, you boarded a boat called the President Pierce, I wonder if you can give us your observation of the boat itself and your reaction to it. CB: Well, when we left San Francisco, we were on a cargo passenger ship called the President Pierce, the U.S. President Alliance and of course, we thought we'd have some kind of 4 �state rooms and this was the first time I began to exactly wonder what we were getting in to because they put us up at one of the lounge or lobby, all we had were cots and we were really crowded, the whole bunch of us was in, I don't think Frillman was, but everybody else was in cots in this lounge. And we took off and sailed from there to Hawaii. We got to Hawaii, in the meantime, we also had a bunch of kooks going over there going to the Philippines. When we got to Hawaii, we were there overnight. And I remember old P.J. Perry coming on board and at that time, booze was pretty cheap in Hawaii and so old P.J. come staggering on board and he had a jug of liquor on his shoulder trying to get up the gang plank. And he made it but I don't know how. And anyway, we left and we gave the Colonel a tough time, going over there. He always had an inspection - everyday he had an inspection - and I really didn't see any reason why I had to pop to because he came by, being 21 years old, when he came by, he'd reamed me up one end or the other so I went and told the fellows. Next morning the whole bunch of us was sitting back on the fantail waiting for us. And he came back there and all the, he took one look, he just turned around and walked away, Frillman had called us in to have a meeting, and said the Captain would appreciate it if you fellows make yourselves scarce when they have a, when the Colonel. does an inspection, but we wouldn't have put up with that stuff. And I think that would give you an idea of what kind of guys we had. We knew our job but we wasn't going to put up with a bunch of other stuff. FB: Give us as much as possible, we read the Frillman book and his real trepidation, he was nervous around, of letting you guys know that he was even a Chaplain to begin with, I don't want you to answer yet, give me a brief answer, you did meet him in the hotel right? CB: I think we did, I don't really remember, I just remember him being on the boat. We no doubt had met him, but I remember him being on the boat, because that's when he started calling names and, FB: OK. We want all that detail, on the boat then. 5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Baisden_Chuck_1991-06-08_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Baisden, Charles Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-08 Title A name given to the resource Chuck Baisden interview (video and transcript, 1 of 11), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Chuck Baisden by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Chuck Baisden was an armorer of the AVG 3rd Squadron, "Hell's Angels." He joined the American Volunteer Group (AVG) in 1941 after signing a covert contract with Continental Aircraft Mfg. Co. He was with the first forces to reach Burma and was stationed at Mingaladon and Magwe, Burma and Loiwing, Mengshi, and Kunming, China. He left the AVG at the expiration of his contract in 1942 and enlisted as a T/Sgt. in the US Army. In this tape, Chuck Baisden describes his background in the American Air Corps before becoming involved with the American Volunteer Group and his journey overseas from San Francisco. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/eda1ec9bdf158decc3dfcd101f505953.mp4 111855ad61c8ca873b1a610fbbead85d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/158a68fc1ecd0921ee2f0ce92abb4dfe.pdf b8ea7738c91093c363c82fda4785d90b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 7] FB: ……volunteered to stay on for the two weeks had difficulty getting back to the States, can you tell us anything about…? SA: I don't know anything about that, I don't know. We had no control over the - going into the air force - most of the got away. FB: What did you think the AVG accomplished in that one year? What would you say, from your own personal observation? SA: I think it's a proven fact that they are not just a simple bunch of people together, but they are really unspeakable in the way they accomplished what they did, and I would say they were entirely 100% successful all the way through, and I'm proud of being connected with it. I consider it the best thing that ever happened to me, to be in that organization. Does that answer you? FB: My next question is, what do you personally feel you accomplished during that year, and what effect did it have on your life? SA: I don't think I accomplished much. I might have accomplished a few things but I don't - I can't have missed much. For instance, some friends of mine gave me a job inspecting the problem and I was immediately one of the people to send out all over the United States in a short period of time, say one month, it was terrific. You'd think I was God, because I'd go from one place to another and write a report on the combat people and that, over and over. I didn't like that business of being an inspector, but I had to. Then I got out and with General Haynes and Mitchell Steele? And it was a bomber command, that's what it 1 �was. I was just happy to be - that was a happy thing, I guess. We had this house - we had to lease it. We bought it in '40. FB: Somewhere inside there, is all those friends of yours that I showed you pictures of [?] 5th anniversary, so instead of talking to me, I'd like you to talk to them. Because we will show this - I need you to look right into the camera - get yourself comfortable and look right into the camera. SA: Ladies and Gentlemen: I'm extremely sorry that I'm unable to be with you on this historic occasion, the 50th anniversary of the AVG, but I would like to say, being a part of this organization is something in my life - I'm proud of it, and always will be. There's one thing I would like all of you to know, that I have done the best I could, and I wish that my learned friends would tell me that I was right to go ahead with it. I also would like you to know that I think Dick Rossi has done a tremendous amount of good for the AVG and nobody forced him to do it. I have read a lot of books, met a lot of people, but I have nothing to be ashamed of, anything that I've done. The one thing that I do and hope that you will understand is my tremendous admiration for Chennault while he lived and everything. I also have some friends, best friends I've ever had - still are my friends, and one of them was good enough to say after writing a book, "Skip, I never heard anybody say an unkind word to you." I don't believe that. You can't take on a job like I had without making enemies, and I just want to say, "Hullo and goodbye to all of you." FB: That was beautiful. I want to ask one more question over again, and I realize that perhaps it's a difficult question to answer, but if you could try. We're doing these interviews with each person to get - what do you personally feel you accomplished in the AVG, and how did that affect the rest of your life? SA: I don't know that it affected the rest of my life, I don't know that. It's a question that's difficult to say - but I'll say this, and I mean every word of this. I have never made more than $10,000 in my life. I attended a party recently with a tycoon and at home, and he said, "That old so-and-so never made more than $10,000 in his life," and I said, "You're talking to one right now." Well, I don't still make that much, but I can't complain about my luck at all. I've got everything I want. I've got three children, put them all through college. They've all done much better than I ever did. My wife has been extremely important to me. She's had many, many friends in the upper echelons. I don't know of 2 �anything I can say except I appreciate you fellows coming by here to do this. I hope it hasn't been a bust. Goodbye. FB: I know it’s somewhat difficult to talk about yourself, but if you hadn’t gone around and recruited those people – there would be no AVG. And I guess, what we’re looking for… SA: They probably could’ve gotten somebody else… I don’t know… FB: Skip, we’ve heard what the guys have said about YOU! You haven’t heard that and I’ll tell you something – you’re pretty high up on the ladder in terms of people that they respect. And I know it’s kind of difficult, but this is for the record. There’s gotta be a certain amount of pride in what you did. SA: I have… FB: Please tell us about it. SA: Well, I have a tremendous amount of pride… I've said repeatedly, I think it was the most important thing I've ever done in my life, and I have done, on the other hand, some very significant things. I'm very much impressed - I don't anybody, that I know who has three children who have grown up and been so successful and I even have two great grandchildren, and what kind of life do you think I've done? Do you think I've been busted all the way? No. I don't think so either, and I'm just proud of everything I've got now. There's one little thing. This little house cost us $7,500. Now it's a hundred and some - way up there. They come by every goddam year and say, "That son of a bitch is worth more than that, let's raise his taxes up. He's so and so." Well, I bought it to live in, not trade off and make money out of. But that's what they're doing. They just keep on. I don't know what the hell's going to happen in death. If they keep on raising the damn taxes - I paid $20 a year for taxes when I bought it, now - thousands. That's just the house tax. 3 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Skip_1991-06-06_v07 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Claude Bryant "Skip" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Skip Adair interview (video and transcript, 7 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Skip Adair trained as a pilot and was recruited by Col. Claire Lee Chennault in 1938 to serve as an instructor for the Chinese Air Force. During the months leading to the formation of the AVG, he toured Army Air Corps bases recruiting pilots and ground personnel in secrecy for the AVG. As part of the AVG Headquarters Staff, Adair acted as the Operations and Supply Group Executive Officer. In this tape, Adair discusses the major accomplishments of the AVG during their historic year and the tremendous pride he has for being a part of the Flying Tigers. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/635f460a791a12ac6ec75a73a9a74913.mp4 17925ae6d9930a4882ed50ecb4b5691e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/533f0d56e8890057a8ac3f95722706bb.pdf 1644e4a6671822c7d2040d95568cecd0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 6] FB: I'd like to ask you about the bombing of Kunming and the AVG on the 20th of December fought against the Japanese and was successful, and actually the Japanese never even came back again. What was your reaction and what were you doing while that battle was going on? SA: There wasn't any big deal about what I was going to do. It was a difficult thing to pick out these Japanese as they came in. Although we were getting information on the radio they were so-and-so and at such and such a time. Also our pilots in the air found them took advantage of it and knocked down a few. We had some other places too, small places, it wasn't just Kunming - down the road - I know I was down there one time, my teeth were bothering me and - you'd never believe it - we had a dentist, Milt Wilton. He said, "You've got an impacted wisdom tooth. I can do it but it's not going to be pleasant because I don't have the proper elevators - you know what that is?" I said, "Go ahead and do it." While that was going on, the Japanese were swarming in from nowhere and we had guys like Tex Hill - as a matter of fact, it was Tex Hill and his outfit were there, and they had a battle pretty much, all over the damn place they were. I went out to see these Japanese airplanes that had come down - Tex Hill had shot them down - and Tex Hill jumped out of his airplane and walked over there to him, kicked the corpse - I think it was a corpse "Hey, you son of a bitch." He did something he didn't like, anyway, he didn't feel sorry for the guy one bit. That's what you've got to do, I think. I've never shot one down though. FB: I guess what I was looking for in the question, Skip, was - before December 20th, the AVG had never encountered the Japanese. They had been training but had never encountered the Japanese. Kunming had been bombed without - as you said before, there 1 �was no defense, so when they actually shot down those airplanes, what was the reaction from you, from Chennault? SA: That was tremendous, you can't describe it. The Chinese all were - something from heaven - they just couldn't - it was just one after another - these AVG people are just tremendous. We had a Governor out there in that province - did I ever tell you about him? Long Yuen. He put on a party for us out there [?] and all that stuff and wines of all kinds, and I had to get up and respond and do this and that - I hated it that stuff, but I still had to do it. But it was a beautiful place. The Chinese - I don't want to get into anything about what I think of them and all that, but the governors had unlimited power. You can't say "Chiang Kai Shek" - but each local governor - they're the ones that are - and of course, they all pretty much think Chiang Kai Shek is one too, but you can't on that. They never liked him at all. FB: What was your reaction and Chennault's reaction to the success? Because Chennault's name in a sense was on the line. He'd been training these guys - what was the reaction you had and what was the reaction that Chennault had to the success over Kunming? SA: I don't know about success - as you say, I can't recall any of us jumping up and down like some people seem to do. We expected it. You go to all the trouble and get the airplanes and get the equipment and get the best mechanics and the best pilots, you got to expect some good things, and it happened. Of course, we were glad. One guy - you probably never heard of Neale? You don't know? Neale was one of the squadron commanders. He's alive now - he lives up off Oregon, one of those islands up the west coast up there. Chennault made him his air commander, as he called him, because he'd shot down about 18 or 20 planes himself, tremendous. I sat next to his wife and talked to him - I never thought he liked me, I don't know why. I never did anything overtly or anything else, but I guess he just didn't express himself too much, he kept quiet.. Incidentally, can I say one more - we had loads of newspaper writers and whatnot come in there, and they would ask one question after another. "How can you tell which is the fighter and which is the ace and which is not?" And I said, "The best way is going and look in the bar and they've got the smallest little guy you could see, and the quietest guy, he's the [?], and that's about the way it was. Don't listen to his bad mouth. Am I on camera or am I not? I am. 2 �FB: What would you say the Chinese role was in the defense of Kunming? The Tigers were fighting in the air. What would you say the Chinese role was in the defense of Kunming? Did they have ground [?] over there? SA: Their role was very important. Just because we had the pilots - every airplane had a bunch of Chinese - if you looked at the airplanes, there was always one American maybe - they had three or four others - but they were tremendous. FB: What was your relationship - this is during the AVG period - how did you work with the Chinese? Were they involved in the supply at all? Were they involved with ……? SA: No, I don't think we did a damn thing with the Chinese. [?] They did a marvelous job, the Chinese, of supply us - a place to stay, the finest quarters, we took over places that had been in the past, probably, schools, houses and whatnot. We had otherwise - we had been dodging it really but [?] one thing that bugged me about our own people - they didn't realize how good this damn service they were getting was - it was nothing like as good as they were getting back home, that kind of stuff, you know. Hells bells, I think it was damn good. How do I know it? Because I had lived in China before and we were damn lucky to have any kind of thing. The only way I looked at it, was - to build it myself or have it built, pay for it, and get a beautiful woman out there to man it! FB: When did you first hear that the AVG was going to be incorporated into the army air corps? SA: It was pretty obvious that. I think I heard it some time, I wouldn't know exactly when but that was - no way we could make a [?] which we did on July 4th. These men could go home if they wanted to go home or they could stay in the army. I was one of the few who stayed, as a major. I went back to the United States, to the Pentagon and some friends got me a job, and that's about the way it was. FB: Skip, what was your reaction to the military now about to come in and take over the AVG? What was your personal reaction? SA: The communists? 3 �FB: No, the American military was about to take over the AVG, what was your personal reaction? SA: It was just one of the things that was going to happen. You don't have to worry about it, whether it was going to happen or not. This was a long plan and we had a long time to figure out - they had an apartment of four or five military officers who had [?] and anybody who wanted to stay in the army could stay and they would consider what they were - so a lot of them stayed in. You know what I mean by that? Everybody knew it was going to happen, and it did happen. FB: What would you say the morale was like amongst the AVG during this period of time? SA: The AVG in general were stupid to always say that the army was a terrible place. They didn't like the idea of getting back in the army, that kind of stuff, on the other hand, they didn't like the way - a lot of the things we did in the AVG. FB: Do you think that Bissell's speech had something to do with that? Were you present? SA: Some people say so - that's the kind of speech I'd expect from him. FB: Were you present at the Bissell speech? SA: I don't think so. FB: …observation at that time. Why do you think most of the AVG did not rejoin with the army air corps? SA: I don't know. I think a lot of them had been in before - a lot of them were navy people and navy people said, "Why in hell should I join the army", - something like that. Tex Hill, for instance, was a navy man, but he came back in. He got a job as a general. FB: What was your personal decision? What were you going to do after July 4th? What did you decide to do? SA: I decided to stay for a while, which wasn't too long, when I went back. 4 �FB: The AVG was promised passage back home in their original contract. They were supposed to be brought to China and returned back to the United States. What was your observation of what really happened? SA: Some of them they did send back, some of them they didn't. Some of these people, I didn't know much about, but they just went out for the ride. As soon as they got out there, they wanted to turn back, and they said, "We ain't gonna pay their way back, hell no. Somebody we fire, we'll see that they get transportation and we'll pay for it." That's the way it was. 5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Skip_1991-06-06_v06 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Claude Bryant "Skip" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Skip Adair interview (video and transcript, 6 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Skip Adair trained as a pilot and was recruited by Col. Claire Lee Chennault in 1938 to serve as an instructor for the Chinese Air Force. During the months leading to the formation of the AVG, he toured Army Air Corps bases recruiting pilots and ground personnel in secrecy for the AVG. As part of the AVG Headquarters Staff, Adair acted as the Operations and Supply Group Executive Officer. In this tape, Adair describes the reaction to the AVG's first combat with the Japanese pilots after the bombing in Kunming, in addition to the final days of the AVG and the arrival of the American military. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8417780cf02f38072ab639b010d03d98.mp4 07149302a0ac09c3838759e4b53399e3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/36de568561fef919c189c128ea19a7ed.pdf 2b800fbf4c463a8a6ca22d3a99b6b0bb PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 5] FB: In the kitchen, you had talked about that incident where you were escorting Madam Chiang Kai Shek and then Boyington was in the - you sort of set it up in the beginning fine, and you told the ending fine, what we need to edit it in, is what you said … you hurried her past? We need a little more detail on that? SA: There was a table with a sort of [?] on it. This guy was sitting at a table but when he saw us enter the room he realized that he was in the presence of somebody important - she was certainly important, she was chief of the air force. So I just maneuvered her away from that and I didn't stop or make a comment. She probably knew exactly what was going on, just as I did. But things like that are upsetting. When the President of the United States should come down and give the one squadron outfit like we had in S. Carolina a party or something like that and you don't even bother to go? What kind of a guy are you? FB: Let's talk about somebody that you liked a lot more. Give us your impressions from your personal perspective, your impressions of Claire Chennault. SA: He was a maverick. He had infinite skill as a fighter, he knew exactly - he was perfect with the Chinese, and that was one of the smart things they did, to get him out there. That's true. I had numerous occasions to know him. As I told you, I went down to [?] way ahead of home, and he had nine children down there, and that's enough for a baseball team. He didn't ask me down there just because he liked me, a lot of people that way, he just probably wanted to tell me something, I don't know. I'm not just saying, but afterwards, after the AVG, he would come right here - he would send me a telegram saying, "I want to stop here for a few minutes, come out and see me again." We did, and 1 �left when this was going through. Another time, I was in a pretty good position and General Haynes had been good enough to give me a job on his staff, and we had a house on ??, a beautiful house, and all that stuff, and Chennault came through one day, and came in and he said, "Skip, I'm going to be here - I'd like to see you." Once the General said I could use his table to eat on. And I said, "That’s something else, something more important than that. General, some people back in New York have been badgering me over and over again, saying that I should get Chennault to come to this celebration and whatnot, so he could be the fall guy and I had this worked out - and I told Chennault, and [?] on my part because he wouldn't like it. I said to him everybody's going to be there, what are you going to have, everybody's going to be there, the mayor and - and a lot of AVG people are going to be there so we want you to show up and they'll get up and say the usual bad things about you and funny things too, and he'd just take it with a grin and let it go at that. And that's what happens. What's the name of that governor - the mayor of New York, Italian gentleman, everybody know him …………and then we got a baseball guy from - one of the [?] club. He said, "Get get a good game on this afternoon, I'll get everybody in that wants to", and [?] said, "The only problem is getting there and I'll have all the motorcycle policeman and escorts and everything else, and I was sitting next to General Haynes, in the same car with him, we were going out to the - we were going so fast and screaming, you'd think that we'd be killed ten times, it would go through everything [?]. We all got there, but I said to Haynes, "I've never been through a god dammed thing like this before, in China or any place else, because it scared the hell out of me.” FB: SA: Let's go to China again with Chennault, what was your impression of Chennault during the AVG period of time, what was your own personal observation? He was my boss, he was the best boss I've ever had. He was a guy who knew airplanes and I had a tremendous respect for him and I don't think there's anything I can say that in my opinion he was one of the finest people I've ever known. FB: If he was in the room when you walked into a room and Chennault was there, what did you see? SA: When I walked in the room - what room? FB: Any time when you walked into a room - if I was there, what would I see? 2 �SA: I don't know exactly what you mean by that? FB: Just in terms of his look. How did his looks strike you? Some people talk about his piercing black eyes, or his leather face. What was your impression? When you looked at Chennault, what did you see? SA: He was an individual and it was a hard thing for him to get anywhere in the military because as I said before, I always thought of him as a maverick. So many generals get to be generals by smoothing in this and that situation but I don't think he had an idea of going back to the United States and becoming a general. He got to be a general because Madam Chiang Kai Shek put the heat on with [?]. The regular people out there, Stilwell and his group were telling a lot of people that they don't understand this AVG, Flying Tigers and stuff, didn't understand that at all. One of them called me, waked me up in the middle of the night, one of the colonels, waked me up and got me out of bed. He said, "Have you got an airplane you can send down to rescue General so-and-so." I said, "I don't have one but there's one here. I'll tell him that you want it done and if he does, that's fine, but I can't order him, because he's an American, not an air pilot and I'm reserve officer and out of it." So that's the way it happened. And you know what? This guy got to the airplane down there and landed at dawn and General Stilwell decided, that no, he was going to walk out. He was going to walk out, that we could take the nurses he had and put them on an airplane, but he was going to walk out. That saved his neck I think. He walked out. There were a lot of things like that. FB: Did you ever meet Stilwell? SA: Yeah, I just told you. Not only that but Madam Sun Ya Tsen invited him and his aide and me and her secretary to play bridge, not once but twice. I had respect for him as a general and all that be had was not my idea of Chennault. Now Chennault and Stilwell would get together and say, period. Stilwell - Chennault, the guys in the trenches are going to win this war. Chennault - there ain't no damn trenches. That's about the way they got along. That's the truth I think. FB: How about Stilwell's aide, Bissell? SA: Bissell was just the opposite of what I said. He was an over the line military man. Nobody liked him, not particularly me. He was the kind of a guy that didn't give a damn 3 �about anybody. He would say, "I guess we've got to adhere to the line and do exactly what the army says. He couldn't really last for a minute the way we could. So why in the hell would he have to call me, a guy that wasn't even in the army, middle of the night, to bail out Stilwell from his own goddam stupidity? I don't know. I think Mrs. Stilwell must be gone too. I don't think any of my friends are still alive, not many of them. Some of those pictures you showed me - but they're younger. I took one of them - this is a good story. I think one of them came from Las Vegas and I met him in the lobby at one of those conventions we had, and I said, "I understand you've been raising horses. Come up to the room and have a drink of scotch or something, I've got some good stuff up there." He said, "Okay, we'll do that." He gets up there and he says, "Skip, when I first saw you, I thought you were as old as hell. Now I don't think so any more." Now things are different, he wasn't a kid any more either. FB: We really need to get better understanding - for the documentary … SA: You might say it was nil. When I started to do something when Chennault wasn't there, I did it - that was a staff meeting. Did I call everybody together and say, "Can I do this?" No. We didn't have staff meetings as the army and air force has them. Didn't do it, or anything. So we used the word "staff" - I've got a book here somewhere that lists all the names over everybody, what they did. But it's the best book that's ever been written. There have been a hundred or so of them written. Half of them are spurious. FB: In terms of Chennault, he had a very bad case of bronchitis, give us an idea of he would get sick, who would take over and how did he communicate with the pilots? SA: I don't think he was eve to that point. He had this throat condition but it didn't amount to anything. He never said anything about who was going to take over if he died - I don't know, I suppose I'll have to. 4 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Skip_1991-06-06_v05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Claude Bryant "Skip" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Skip Adair interview (video and transcript, 5 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Skip Adair trained as a pilot and was recruited by Col. Claire Lee Chennault in 1938 to serve as an instructor for the Chinese Air Force. During the months leading to the formation of the AVG, he toured Army Air Corps bases recruiting pilots and ground personnel in secrecy for the AVG. As part of the AVG Headquarters Staff, Adair acted as the Operations and Supply Group Executive Officer. In this tape, Adair discusses his impressions of General Chennault as a maverick and admirable boss, in addition to General Stilwell and General Bissell. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f6d59698cb93f6a01e27ebcb6e3e32e7.mp4 744bdee38daafbf216237eae1a1dad47 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/84b13ce4f8f02d0e9e5a25f29187f9e9.pdf cb76b13ce4185f1598c7b9f97e784a22 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 4] FB: Can you give us an idea of what it took to get equipment, and to get it to the crews? SA: I'm going to say that that was something that CAMCO did - airplanes, spare parts, they would do it. All that stuff was arriving in Rangoon, and one of the brothers - I've forgotten whether it was Gene - but we would receive these crates, a shipment. I'd open them up and - they were P-40 airplanes - we'd put them together the way it has to be done. In case you don't know, a crate comes in, it's not an airplane, they put it all together and a lot of people spend a lot of time working on it. Once it gets together, then they call somebody - maybe me - and say, "We've two or three more planes ready", so we'd send down some pilots and they'd fly them back, just like that. That was supply. We weren't in the business of buying things, but you've probably heard of a guy named Joe Alsop. He came out there and got in the organization, and we were getting to be friends. We would send him on [?] and one time when he was - some guns and some small side arms you might call them. He went all the way to the Philippines and bought a bunch of them and came back. Another trip he was out there getting something like that for us, is when the Japanese folded up Hong Kong, and so what he had to do was claim he was a pilot at the embassy, not a part of AVG, his life wouldn't have been worth a nickel if he was that way. You understand that? Well, that happened. Joe Alsop was later friends later on after the war in Tex Hill, and I used to go up to that place and have dinner. He'd apologize because he didn't have so much money, but all these people would bring him delicious fish and stuff like that, and he'd say, "I apologize for the fish," but it was real good stuff. That's the way Joe Alsop was. 1 �FB: It was once stated that you and Chennault had a conversation in which they said he'd never last 15 days - that the AVG would never last 15 days without parts. Do you remember that conversation? SA: Uh, Uh. But it could be very true. I'm not part of that, but anybody that knew anything about military, knows damn well that supply is - without it, you're dead. Even though I thought, "To hell with it," I didn't want the damn job, but it seems it hounded me later on. [?] said, "That's the only job I've got open, supply". I said, I don't know a damn thing about it but I'll take it. That's about the way you learn. FB: We need you to give us your personal opinion, your personal observations about some of the people that were in the AVG. We have a pretty good idea about the pilots, the mechanics, but none of them knew the staff. You're the only one we've been able to talk to that actually had real contact with the staff. So I'll just ask you a few questions about people, and if you could just comment on those people. Chennault had an interpreter the whole time he was out there named P.Y. Shu. Did you ever have any contact with him or do you have any …? SA: I just freewheeled, just as I … I'm 82 years, I don't remember things like I used to, hells bells! But these Chinese were indispensable, as interpreters and otherwise. I'll tell you one thing, these Chinese people - I don't know how to put it but they'd do the best they can with what they've got, but you can't stack them up against Americans who were educated, and that's the truth, no way. I had lots of things that astound me. I'm just like you or anybody else. You know what? This Tiananmen Square, where all the massacres of students took place? I don't know whether it took place or not but that's beside the point. In China, you can't come out and say offhand that somebody's bad, somebody's good - you can't do it. FB: Let's talk about some of the people on the staff. SA: Williams - that's a good one to start with. Williams was a [?] officer, and I had problems with him. One time, we moved out from Kunming? up to Chung King, and as much as we may dislike it, we had no niggers in this outfit, that's one thing, and another thing what the hell did I start to talk about? FB: Williams. 2 �SA: He was a radio man, he was very important to us because he set up this bunch of radio stations and early warning things - it was very [?] but we had to have it. You couldn't sit on the ground and wait for them to [?] you had to know they were coming - did it by airplane communications. We did it that way. We didn't take anything from him, he was never an officer. Our system was based on what the navy had. We had different bars, different dining rooms. You might say, how can you be so snooty. Chennault set it up that way originally and I had to carry it out, and I didn't like it that way but I did it. For example, we moved up to Kunming and I sent Williams ahead to prepare, to do certain things before I came up and the rest of it. I got up there and I got so goddam mad, I went and blew my top. He had set everything all together, strewn everything out the window, and that wasn't the way we operated. His mentality and the way he went - he said he couldn't see anything different about it, but goddam it, I could and everybody else could I gave him hell and immediately changed it myself, but he called me a "son of a bitch" and everything else. I didn't give a damn. He goofed and he didn't ask anybody for information, he'd just go ahead and do it that way. Now Williams, I like, he's older than I am, but that doesn't mean he was in the AVG so long. I don't know where the hell he was before that but all I know is, he's older. And the one reason I know he's older, one day I was talking about someone - how old I was - and he say, "I'm older than you," I says, "You are?" It surprised me, but he was. But Williams was a tremendous person. It just so happened he never was an officer, and we had so damn many good'uns - crew chiefs and [?] personnel - no use laboring the point, but in this case - I could have gone along with it, with the same damn thing, you see. But it was absolutely - didn't jibe at all with what we'd set up. FB: How about Harvey Greenlaw? SA: He was a no-no. I don't know why Chennault ever brought him over there but he was an old friend of his. He hadn't been in the army or anything else as far as I know, but he was supposed to know China, but he didn't know much. He had a wife who didn't know much either, so I heard. FB: Can you comment any further about his duties or what she was supposed to be doing? SA: He didn't do much of anything. They got credit for that [?] but he wasn't. 3 �FB: How about Boatner Carney? SA: He left for the [?] Another thing, Chennault always told me, if you want to get rid of somebody, you do it. Well, I had to, I said to him "That's a tough job but one of the things I have to do." [?] FB: Can you comment on that - on reasons why some of the AVG were fired, or any in particular that you remember? SA: I was having lunch with some friends of mine - I don't want to say friends, maybe officers - a Chinese waitress came up and said, "Somebody at the door wants to speak to Mr. so-and-so. Mr. so-and-so was one of our pilots, a good pilot, but he'd had an operation, a double hernia, so we'd taken him off until he'd gotten over that and somebody - I didn't do it, but I guess somebody had sent him to inspect the barracks, so to speak and look for drugs and things like that. He went round and he must have upset somebody but they came - two of them - big s.o.b.'s - big boys - and this pilot went back to the door to find out what they wanted, and they started pounding on him right and left, and boy, you're talking about somebody getting mad. I let them both have it! Right and left! I let them know I was there. I didn't knock them out but they were so goddarned [?] that I couldn't do a damn thing else. My reputation was made! They went, "Christ, that Skip can really do it"! But I'm not the kind of a guy that can sit aside and watch somebody be slaughtered. Are you? What else? FB: You were talking in the kitchen about the incident in which Boyington, Pappy Boyington. SA: Pappy! Chennault hired him, he can't blame that on me, I didn't hire him, but Chennault did. It was a mistake and he'd admit it. I like whiskey, but I'm not a drunk, [?] but this guy did. He was a good pilot but, hell, who wants a good pilot, someone who's drunk and going to taxi around and crack up some of the airplanes. That's what he did, one after another, that's a bad damn thing. He'd do that and he'd ignore it. He was supposed to be such a hotshot - I don't know how many he shot down, if any, I don't know. I'd like to repeat it, I don't care who knows it, when Madam Chiang Kai Shek was on my arm - I was escorting her and showing her what a fine set-up the Chinese had provided, the Chinese had always provided these things, we didn't do it. Things like hotels and food and whatnot, [?] going through and there was this Boyington, goddam! I had no idea he was there or I wouldn't have took her in there, but he staggered up to - drunk himself and 4 �that's what - he had done, he had busted into the van, the liquor van and which is safer than ??? Nobody thought he would do a thing like that. I told Chennault, I said, "Listen, you probably know what happened, but this is what happened, I'd bash the hell out of - I don't see why the hell we need a guy like that around." And he said, "Skip, get rid of him." Even though he hired him. So I called him in, I says, "Boyington, you're such a nice boy, really nice, I like you, but things the way they are, we're just going to have to let you go". I let him down as easy as I could, that's the truth. He left and he went and got to Hollywood and started making films and whatnot. In my opinion, he was a no-no. 5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Skip_1991-06-06_v04 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Claude Bryant "Skip" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Skip Adair interview (video and transcript, 4 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Skip Adair trained as a pilot and was recruited by Col. Claire Lee Chennault in 1938 to serve as an instructor for the Chinese Air Force. During the months leading to the formation of the AVG, he toured Army Air Corps bases recruiting pilots and ground personnel in secrecy for the AVG. As part of the AVG Headquarters Staff, Adair acted as the Operations and Supply Group Executive Officer. In this tape, Adair describes the supply situation for the AVG and his personal observations of some of his fellow members including Harvey Greenlaw, Boatner Carney, and Pappy Boyington. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1d62b95fb0fd3ac5f68505115be35ee6.mp4 4849d5010c18ea8bed33885f423d6604 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/eb0178f6bdd9d4b2a0c34c3d92c983b9.pdf 1d4010a295bcc84361fb9159831fcc7c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] SA: … maybe someone in administration, Franklin D. Roosevelt, he was a man of his own, he knew what he wanted to do, I'd never make any criticism of him, but guys like the Senator who shoots his mouth off, nobody else did. He might have for some reason in administration wanted to have affirmation to get out, but he leaped out, isn't that what they say? What it was, it was a bad deal for us and them. He was later, can't remember the gentlemen's name, but he was lot's older than I am, and I'm old enough. He just was told to do it - I think that's what happened. But he would never say that, he says, "Do it as a [?].” I know so much about it – this is going to happen – he would never have been fool enough to do that. So I think that's what it was, the way it was. They didn't want all of a sudden this thing to fall on them like a ton of bricks. You know what I mean? That's the way it was, exactly. FB: Once you had completed the recruitment process, what was the next thing that was asked of you? What was the next thing that you did? SA: To be frank I got in one of these airplanes that land on water, Pan American [?]. I got on one - incidentally, I had a card I could fly anywhere I wanted. I went to Hawaii. Gave myself another ten days’ vacation [?] "I'm gonna do it, nobody else can ever - I'm could stay there a month if I wanted to. But I did see a lot of my classmates out there, in the air force. They were concerned, they knew that the Japanese were getting - and I did too. I said, "Jesus, you'd better watch 'em because…" I didn't predict that Pearl Harbor, but that's what happened. I stayed there and this friend of mine took me all over the island, which is a good thing. Then I got back on the Pan American Clipper - that's what it was they take off and land on water. You've seen them I'm sure. I flew all the way in the Hong Kong area. 1 �FB: At this time of the organization, were there ships going over to take them over? Did you get involved in that at all? SA: I had nothing to do with that. CAMCO, which is the Central American Manufacturing Co., run by the Pawley brothers, there were two or three of them and they did a good job of doing what they were supposed to do. Chennault never got along with them very well. I got along with them a lot better than Chennault did. Pawley, Gene Pawley was a good friend of mine. I was walking down the street in Times Square and bumped into him and he said, "Let's have a drink." We were that way and I used his office which was up there in the RCA building - I think it was about the 70th floor, it was way up there I can tell you that. I'd never do all the paperwork for him, I'd send it in to this and that and so and so and so. FB: Once you had completed the recruitment process, what was your next duty? What else did you do for the AVG? SA: I got to Rangoon which was the place where we started. Above Rangoon about 120 miles was a little British airport that the British weren't using. We got permission to use it as a training center, which we did. What else do you want to know about it? FB: What was the next responsibility? You'd finished with the recruitment part, now what did you do for the AVG? What was the next step? SA: The next thing? Just about what I told you, except for the time before. Chennault and I were just like this. I didn't have to ask him a damn thing, I just went on and did it, and so forth and so on. Only upsetting thing about the whole process as far as I was concerned was, I got malaria. Now malaria over there is a killing process. It was a good thing we had a couple of nurses, two females and another male, a doctor and everything else and they were using the finest things in the world on me. I was 104 temperature. They put me on a slab, bald naked and ice all over me. These nurses all got very familiar with me. They didn't really think much of me because I'd [?] One morning, while I was there, still in the hospital, Chennault came by - he usually came by in the morning to tell me what was going on [?] I said, "What's new this morning?" He says, "Nothing much. The Japs have bombed Pearl Harbor. They're next door to us and they could be here in another twenty minutes." I said, "Nurse, bring my pants." That's exactly what I said. So, I got 2 �the hell out of there and he said, "I want you go on up, when you get the chance -after you get through - send these people and all these spare parts, motors and everything else we've got to go. I didn't go with the experts. I had a little guy that was a supply clerk, and I says, "Listen, you have a responsibility. You've got ten trucks, new trucks, and millions of dollars’ worth of things. You know who's going to be responsible for it, who's running that thing? You! That usually set him up and they did it, like I did a lot of things. So that's the way it was. We've got to give them credit for moving more material in the fastest time than anybody else - it had been routine army joke that it "had taken forever", but they didn't do it that way. He just said, "You, that's your job and you're not taking off tomorrow, you're taking off today." FB: That leads me to another question. What would you say were the differences between the way the military did things and the way the AVG did things? SA: A big difference - based on the same thing, but I would say we had more freedom, we could do it if we wanted to. We didn't have to go right down the line and do everything one, two, three and so forth. We could use our own discretion and do things like that. The army could never do that. They'd take a month to get ready, and we'd be already up there. Did that get through you? FB: Part of the energy process - sometimes we have to ask you - but the part that you talked about when you had malaria, and you were laid out and Chennault came in to tell you about Pearl Harbor? Could we have you repeat that again? If you could start with the fact that you got down with malaria and they had to lay you out on the ice and then Chennault came in as he usually did and then …? SA: While I was in the hospital, we had a good medical staff of our own. I'd had nothing to do with hiring them, Chennault did most of that. There was a doctor and nurses and they were very good. They kept me alive because that type of malaria they had over in Burma, that was a killer. Our doctors had as good a knowledge of it as anybody, better than most. I didn't have no trouble out there. I got out, and that's it. After sending a few more people up, we had a little transport [?] by ten people, two engine airplane, I'd flow in one a lot of times. We just moved on up to Chunking with that. These pilots had been trained down there in this place, and they had done a pretty good job of doing it. They had to land on real short runways, some of them were busted up. But in general, they were pretty good. We saw three organizations, squadrons, many [?]. 3 �FB: Could we get back to …? SA: He never was kicked out, he [?] or nothing, he didn't get that way, he wasn't that kind of a guy. He said, "How are you feeling"? I said, "I'm feeling better, I'd better get out of here." He said, "I hope so, I want you to go on up to Kunming because the Japanese have done just what I said - bombed Pearl Harbor." And what's the name of that little kingdom - the Japanese could go anywhere they wanted to go - they were there. And that's about it. I got out and never had any recurrence of that thing, malaria. FB: How long did you stay in Burma? You went almost immediately to Kunming, didn't you? SA: I don't know how long, but it wasn't a short period of time, it was a matter of a month or so. FB: So you were there during the training period? SA: Yeah, that's right. It doesn't sound like much, but that's exactly what it was. Do you know what "supplies" meant? Everything! They couldn't move without it - can't do anything. So, I hated the darn thing. I told him "I don't know a damn thing about supplies, and you know it." It doesn't take that kind of a thing, it takes someone with a few brains to do it, to take advantage of opportunities, and go ahead and do it with limited facilities." Got it? FB: Could you tell us a little bit more about what the supply situation was like. What kind of problems did you run into? What did you have to do? SA: The guy, as I told you, was a tough man. He walked into the room and you wanted to walk out the other side, because he had a body odor that'd kill you. But he was the best I had. You couldn't tell him to go back to the United States and send over somebody else like that. So, you've got to go. I had about three or four others, we had clerks who had probably more experience in supplies that I had, but I couldn't have gotten to where I was in the air force without knowing a lot about supplies. Does that answer your question? FB: What we're looking for is - as if we know nothing about this. I know the supply situation was very difficult, that you were running out of supplies, it was a constant problem. 4 �SA: We didn't have any corner drug-store or anything like that. FB: This is what we need on camera. We need to know what kind of problems you ran into and what the supplies situation was like. SA: I'd pick a telephone and I'd call Rangoon - I'm way up there about 120 miles away, and I say, "Send down a box, we just lost another pilot," or something like that. I had to do things like that all the time. I'd use the telephone, and who would I call? CAMCO. A lot of people don't know anything about CAMCO, but they were pretty important. 5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Skip_1991-06-06_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Claude Bryant "Skip" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Skip Adair interview (video and transcript, 3 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Skip Adair trained as a pilot and was recruited by Col. Claire Lee Chennault in 1938 to serve as an instructor for the Chinese Air Force. During the months leading to the formation of the AVG, he toured Army Air Corps bases recruiting pilots and ground personnel in secrecy for the AVG. As part of the AVG Headquarters Staff, Adair acted as the Operations and Supply Group Executive Officer. In this tape, Adair discusses hearing the news of Pearl Harbor while being treated for malaria, in addition to the supply situation during the training period in Kunming. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1512ee98c41af140741c3444d053fa5f.mp4 19f645a4bd9bf113c640644559fb0b0f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e7abf957ae3c9216db82932f4b7bd7d0.pdf b5007fc480f6e5de532070199ae4f55d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] FB: Did you ever witness him (Chennault) fighting the Japanese? SA: No, I never witnessed - but I've seen and read so much about him, and I knew so much as a matter of fact, he was head of the air force, fighter division, down in Montgomery and when he first went out to China, he took off and did a one man air force. According to what I've heard, I didn't see it and I didn't see it, but I know he shot down at least a half a dozen of them. But when I arrived on the scene, he said - I don't remember now - I'll tell you he - there are so many things, I'm trying to pick out the important things, the things that will be interesting to you. FB: Whatever you want to talk about is fine, but what you're talking about I think, is what we were talking about in the kitchen, when he said, "Skip do you want to fight in airplanes? SA: Yeah, that's one of the things. I asked him point blank what that was - "Are you and I are going to fight in this war," and he said, "No, nobody, not you or I either. We've got our own jobs and somebody's got to run this outfit." The implication was that either one of us got hurt, it would be a blow, which it would be. FB: Let's go back to the early days in Kunming in China, can you tell us about your observations of the Japanese bombings? SA: Yeah. We'd go out and sit on a hilltop somewhere and watch them. We always had this warnings, we knew they were coming, then we'd spot them in the sky. They'd be up maybe 20,000 ft., something like that, and they'd start dropping these bombs and boy, when they hit you could see them hit, big explosions all over town and it kind of made us 1 �mad, naturally. Chennault and myself and everybody else connected with this thing wanted to see what could be done. I guess the most harrowing experience I've had was, I was up in a brand new little fighter plane, we'd just got it into China. I was trying it out, sat in it and one thing and another for half an hour. I had sense enough to come on back then, pulled the plane up and went along into town where my house was, and you know what? The Japanese came on that thing and just [?] the hell out of that airplane I'd been in just a few minutes ago. I was just lucky that I wasn't sitting - there was nothing I could do about it but hide and run. That was the closest I've ever been. FB: Why would you say the Chinese were not able to defend themselves against the Japanese? SA: That's a leading question I would prefer not to answer. FB: At this time, the Japanese had a lot of airplanes, they had a lot of investment into the military. They also had pilots that were very well trained. You were just training the instructors who then had to go out and train - it was a long process just to learn how to fight. SA: You might say that until the AVG days - we're talking about before the AVG - that's nothing, there was absolutely nothing you could do about those Japanese. They had a field day. It's simple! I can't think of anything easier. Nobody shooting at them. We had a few pilots, some outstanding fighter pilots - they were capable of doing something, but they didn't have the equipment or anything else. FB: Skip, my intention was not to give you a leading question - I'll tell you why I asked that we've already interviewed some of the Chinese that were those pilots and they basically said that there was no way of stopping them. SA: I don't remember that, but I have never known any of them to shoot one of them down. I'm sure it must have happened, but I'm not aware of it, certainly not while I was there. FB: Were you a part of the discussions with Chennault about the difficulties he was having in training the Chinese and what alternatives you had to fight against the Japanese? 2 �SA: To a certain extent. I don't think I had a great deal. He had his own ideas made up and there was nothing I could say or do to him about it. FB: When did you first hear that he was going to start up an American Volunteer Group? SA: I guess it was about the time I left China, somewhere along about that time. We knew it was going to happen, and the reason we knew it, he and I in the States had made a $50 million loan and that was the purpose of getting some airplanes. It was all a secret thing, nobody ever put in the paper or said anything. No. Everything I did was quiet and absolutely no ………I got on the boat to China, you think I said I was going over there to fight? Hell, no! I was a newspaper writer I think, yeah, that's what I was. Later on, when I was recruiting these boys, we all gave them a sign, some kind of identification. That's the way we did that - we were very quiet. So, one day, all hell broke loose as far as I'm concerned when this joker from Florida who was probably a pretty good friend of Roosevelt, Franklin D. Anyway, he was testing the wings, when he said, "This AVG is going to be …Blah, blah, blah, let the whole goddam thing go". Well, before that we had nothing, absolutely nothing. We kept it shut and quiet, the whole way, that's what we were supposed to do, otherwise the Japanese would sink every goddam boat [?]. We signed nothing. So even then I was mad at Chennault and everybody else the matter had become public, that it was going to happen. Everybody I hired, and I hired a lot of them to everyone I said, "Don't say anything about this". FB: Let's get to that point then. You returned back to the United States after training the Chinese - you decided to return to the United States - why did you then decide to go back to China? SA: I was going back I think because everybody knew the whole deal was over. When I got back - Chennault and I, besides playing a few rounds of golf on the course there, he said, "I want you to meet somebody," and I met T.V. Soong, Dr. T.V. Soong. He was the money man of [?] at that time and Mr. Chennault said, "This is Mr. Adair and we're going to use him to recruit," and he just nodded his head. That's about all there was to it. He didn't ask me any questions. Chennault wanted it. That was it. FB: What were you told to tell, or what were you looking for when you went out to recruit these various people for the AVG? What were you told to tell them and what did you actually find when you went out looking for them? 3 �SA: I wasn't so much told what to tell them, but in general I said, "We're building up a group of fighter pilots to defend the Burma Road." The Burma Road was the only lifeline, you understand that? All right, that was the whole deal. That's about it. Anything else you'd like to know about it, I'd be glad to answer it. FB: Of these men that you were going to recruit, when they came in to see you, can you give us some idea of some of the personalities of some of the people who [?] you or …? SA: That's a – of what I thought, and I had had enough experience all the way in the air force one way and another, about 5,000 miles in the air. I had all this [?] I didn't have to do anything. I didn't make up any lies or anything, I told the truth. As a matter of fact when I got back, I said, "One of these guys told me, he surprised me, he said, "You're a soft sell". I don't know if I was a soft sell or not but I got two or three hundred people, and I got a few bums in there, but most of them were good. Anything else? FB: Once you had done the recruiting, give us an idea of how you went from base to base looking for - you were travelling across the country looking for people? SA: Yeah - a list, and bases, eight or nine air force bases, and most of them had P-40's or something like that they trained on. I was given a letter identifying me, a very simple thing. "This will introduce Mr. C.B. Adair who will explain the nature of his business." That doesn't say much does it, but that's exactly the way it was. So I went. A lot of these guys that walked into the base were classmates of mine. They all said, "I'm not gonna let this guy go." I said, "You have nothing to say about it." He picked up the telephone and "call Personnel right now if you want to." Some of them did call. I was given the freewheel to go ahead, they didn't cooperate and get a group of them together - I talked to the group. I didn't go one by one or anything like that. I had a long list of requirements Chennault had put up. He wanted a [?] of the so-and-so, all different mechanics. Different phases of it he would go through and spell it out, how much they would get in salary. I didn't much like that but I was innocent more than the pilots. FB: In terms of the pilots themselves, you were looking specifically for pilots that had P-40 experience, is that correct? SA: Yeah. 4 �FB: What did you actually find in terms of pilots? SA: Some of them had P-40 experience and some of them didn't. When I got down to San Antonio when this R.T. Smith and P.J. Green - they were there - they had never been in a fighter plane in their life. They knew what the hell it was all about, they were the kind of guy that I wanted, and I hired them. You know something? They're both aces. You know what an ace is? Five or more. 5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Skip_1991-06-06_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Claude Bryant "Skip" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Skip Adair interview (video and transcript, 2 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Skip Adair trained as a pilot and was recruited by Col. Claire Lee Chennault in 1938 to serve as an instructor for the Chinese Air Force. During the months leading to the formation of the AVG, he toured Army Air Corps bases recruiting pilots and ground personnel in secrecy for the AVG. As part of the AVG Headquarters Staff, Adair acted as the Operations and Supply Group Executive Officer. In this tape, Adair describes the early days working with General Chennault in Kunming, China and the early discussions of the American Volunteer Group and their recruitment efforts. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/048612c846fd483c1dd454599f83e5f2.mp4 87974356147a5e1ddd2c88b8072fdaeb https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1c88fe6418709defa015a9db22cf2f4e.pdf df3fddc5e18129de56b6e874d3d6cf82 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] SA: I flew for Eastern Airlines for a while, got out of that and I was doing - there were a hundred things to do up there. I told you I went to the University of South Carolina. I had a pretty good athletic background. The thing that really got me interested in flying was an engineer I was working with on the roads. I had one of those easy, so-so jobs, $100 a month which was a lot of money in those days. But this guy says, "You know I have this book here you might want to read," and I says, "Sure". That was a book about the early days of World War I, by Elliot Springs who later became a [?]. People kept asking me one after the other. I said one time, I said to this engineer, I said, "I read this book and I've contacted a friend of mine who has gone through this things, and he said it's a real tough deal to get into flying these days because there's no money and this is the words depression we've ever had, and all that stuff, and I just happened to get in, and to get in wasn't just a simple thing. You had to go to your Congressman, write to so and so and so and so, and I did all this and the guy in – I joined a bunch of other people about ten people down at Montgomery Alabama for a test, final test, examination and if you passed that, they had some pretty good … So I …you don't mind me saying "hell" do you? Sure enough, I was two of the ten who got through - I was on my way then. I had a friend who owned the [?] and he was a fine person, lived in a little, small town, his son was going to Tulane and he said, "Skipper, I know you from way back and you're the kind of guy that will go to a dance and get drunk and everything else and teach Sunday School next morning. If you pass this thing, come on down to New Orleans and we'll help you celebrate and he'd pay the bill. And he did, and I did. And that was a great idea - and Mardi Gras, that was really something, something fine, and for a man who likes to eat as much as I do, and occasionally drink - but I thought it was a good idea, and I got in. [?] …it wasn't easy in those days, but I got in. And the first thing you know, the Commandant, pulled out a long list of names, A-A-A, obviously he's going to start with 1 �the names [?] this little fellow was - I've forgotten his name but he was ahead of me …all right Mr. so-and-so, you're designated. He started hemming and hawing and said, "I can't do that and do this", and he went down the second name, "Skip Adair, Brian Adair, are you willing to accept the responsibility in this, you'll be the top dog in this whole class?" I said, "Yes sir" because I never turn down an opportunity to prove myself, and that's what it amounted to, I understand. I was looking at the best line instructor in the air force to teach me. He did a good job of teaching. FB: Once you followed through with that… SA: What do you want to put in the year book? I said, "Travel" because that's what I wanted to do, and I said "Okay". What was the original thing we were talking about, I've forgotten. FB: After you were finished up, you were training under one of the best trainers in the air corps. What happened after that? I got through class, two of them, and after graduation, I was sent to this place in Virginia - Chesapeake Bay, a fine place to start out for a young officer. I did that and Chennault came by one day and he just came in - he was visiting. I didn't know him from anything, and he had a couple of friends - that I had - joint friends with him. He said, "Come on Skip, we're going out on Chesapeake on my boat, and Chennault's coming along too." So we did, and that's the only time I met him so I doubt very much whether he'd remember meeting me. But things were different when we got into China, very different. For some reason he seemed to take a … he said, "This is the kind of guy I want to do this and that and the other". He never told me about it, we'd go hunting together, shoot those …drink bourbon, not to any excess but we did. That was pretty good, good deal. What else do you want? SA: FB: When did you - the first time that you went to the Gulf? SA: [?] Stratton, a good friend of mine from Texas, the classmate of mine, I wrote him a letter that I would like to come out there - they don't have a job at the moment and what do you think? He wrote back immediately and said, "Yes, you'll be perfect for this job." So, we'll send $1,000 check from the Bank of China for this thing and you just come on out here when you want to. So I went. 2 �FB: What were they asking you to do? What were your duties to be for this $1,000? What were you supposed to do? SA: Teach the Chinese, as simple as that, that was the only thing. Not a fighting deal or anything like that, that's all it was. What else? FB: Why did you want to go to China to begin with? SA: Because I got $500 a month. Was that a good reason? In a time when I never made more than $100 a month. Okay? FB: What did you know about China at that time? SA: What did I know about it? What I learned in school and studying. I'm pretty good on geology and geography. I had no particular preparation for it. I couldn't speak Chinese, nobody could. We all had to use interpreters. FB: Where did you go in China? Where were you actually stationed to teach these Chinese? SA: Kunming, Kunming was the first place I went to. They sent me up to a little place called Yunanyi and they had about six Americans there. Some of them had been there two years. I'd been there ten days before Chennault flew up from Kunming to Yunanyi and said, "Skip, the Chinese want you to be the boss of this outfit," I didn't know whether that was true or not - whether he wanted me to do it, I don't know. He said, "Are you willing to take it? It won't be any more money." I said, "Yes sir". I'm the kind of guy that - I've always done that - opportunity to take responsibility, I took it. In this case, it worked out pretty good. FB: What did you find at first in Kunming and then later on? What was the state of the Chinese Air force at that time? SA: Practically non-existent. We had one outfit with about ten bombers in it. They had a long history of being taught by Russians and by the Germans and one thing and another, but Chennault went over there about first two years before I did, and he was unbeatable in a fighter plane, he shot down half a dozen of those things - just like shooting ducks in a pond or something. What he was doing was running an outfit and improve the character 3 �of the Chinese pilots. We were not supposed to teach Chinese students, instruct and check on them, and be sure they were worth having, which is what we did. So that was that. Now what? FB: The Chinese Air Force at that time, what kind of airplanes were you training in? What were the facilities like? SA: Very obsolete planes, one seaters, as a matter of fact, the same type of plane that some of the classmates of mine flew. I didn't ever fly them except as occasionally out of interest. What I had was the best planes, newest ones, and I was taught in that. We were the subject of a lot of derision by other students, who said, "You've got it easy! You're pushbutton pilots. That kind of stuff. Well, that's baloney. But I did get to fly the best planes they had at that time. FB: Had you decided to ask your wife to come out to China, or was that later? SA: A lot of pilots had wives out there already and I said, well, I may as well have too, so I go to Chennault and he says, "Yes, go ahead, bring her out". Well, she came out - and out of Hong Kong, and one of my friends, Madam Chiang, - personal airplane, - she flew in from one place into Kunming up to the place where I was. By the way [?] which was the first and most lovely home and nobody in China had a home like that, the rest of them were just junk. You'd pull out the gun and shoot rats off the rafters and things like that. This was a good place and my wife was flown up in this beautiful C43 by an American pilot with the permission of Chiang Kai Shek, isn't that so? Anything else you want to know? FB: We're going to change the tape now… 4 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Skip_1991-06-06_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Claude Bryant "Skip" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Skip Adair interview (video and transcript, 1 of 7), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Claude Bryant "Skip" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Skip Adair trained as a pilot and was recruited by Col. Claire Lee Chennault in 1938 to serve as an instructor for the Chinese Air Force. During the months leading to the formation of the AVG, he toured Army Air Corps bases recruiting pilots and ground personnel in secrecy for the AVG. As part of the AVG Headquarters Staff, Adair acted as the Operations and Supply Group Executive Officer. In this tape, Adair discusses his background before becoming involved with the American Volunteer Group and his first meeting with Claire Chennault in Chesapeake Bay. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/016f79a3ea25ae930d2fbe60f12dca6c.mp4 73ea2476f54f202df07296fdaaf10e66 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7e264cbd605b757a17bcba58279e5eff.pdf 3df28071b98c26698154ec8747842682 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Marian "Steve" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 3] FB: That year that you spent in China - how did that year affect your life and your marriage with Skip? MA: The year in China with Skip really welded our marriage and we both have been stronger because of it and as he said Mike brought us together and Pat kept us together and Stephanie, who is our baby, the one you saw the write-up on, was the one that really made the difference because we have a deeper understanding of each other and he also is more tolerant and I have become more tolerant. I'm supposed to be a creative person and I made fashioned clothes for some of my friends and could select who I wanted to work for and he puts up with that. That's the reason the house is such a mess, I don't think about housekeeping. I'm doing something else, creating. So he just says creative people have to make a mess. I'll create the cooking and I'll create the mess in the sink for somebody else. And sometimes I don't have that somebody else. FB: What are your memories of the war in China? Do you have any memories of the war? Skip was involved in the war. MA: To begin with, the only good news in the paper was these little blocks about that big, sometimes just two lines of what the Flying Tigers were doing in China. It wasn't on the front page, it was on the back page and my mother was an excellent reader and she would bring them to me and show them to me every morning if there was something good in the paper and I always felt like Skip could take care of himself. I didn't much feel that he might not come back. 1 �FB: MA: What did you know about Skip's work? Did you think that it was important? Were you aware of what he was doing? Did you have any idea of what it was he was doing? Well, in a way, but not too much because he didn't talk to me too much about it. His own family didn't know much about it. (break) FB: Did you feel that what Skip was doing was important? MA: Oh yes I did because I believed in China and China at that time was threatening to be invaded and was invaded and that made a difference because he was doing what he thought was right and it was good for both of us. FB: How was it good for you? MA: Well I think it made me a lot stronger person. I definitely would probably be momma's baby because I was. I never had to make a decision of my own all my life and I've had to and even now I have to make decisions that are sort of whopping. But we get along. He makes some decisions too. FB: How did you feel about leaving China? MA: FB: I didn't want to leave and yet I did want to leave. I felt for Pat's sake because she had already been born, that I ought to come home and it was much more crucial than when I got out there because I've forgotten whether the Chinese had closed the Burma Road - I don't remember why it was closed - it was closed and travel was not allowed on it and when it was reopened they didn't know what was going to happen and they were trying to get all civilians out of Hong Kong and I was one of the ones - probably the last ones - it wasn't long after that Hong Kong was invaded. My memory abates in years - confused. I never did make good marks in history. How did you feel about Skip returning to China to join the AVG? MA: Well that was in the book when our life together began because he was so dedicated to doing it and he only slept in this house 3 nights after we bought the house and it was devoid of curtains and rugs and furniture. We had a few sticks of furniture, but it was a challenge. There again, I had to do all the purchasing and decision making. I put myself 2 �on an allowance. He was making enough money at the time that we didn't spend it all and I just wrote my allowance from the account - Chase-Manhattan - and put it in my bank account here and kept the kids going and paid for a servant and paid for whatever I needed and then when things got too high, I just raised my allowance. FB: During this period of time, it was very unusual for a woman to be on her own raising a family. I wonder if you could give us an idea and give your family an idea of what that was like to be raising a family on your own? (break) MA: How did I feel as a single mother, so to speak, since my husband was gone? Actually one of the boys down the hill - a twelve year old boy - he used to come up and play with the kids and I was smoking cigarettes then and he was at the age - he might have been fourteen - he thought he could get by coming up here and smoking with his parents not knowing it and I couldn't stop him from smoking too much, I'd let him smoke one or two and then we'd do something else. He got the word around that nobody even knew whether I had a husband or not and of course, the people next door who we had known for these 52 years now, bless his heart, he's gone, but she's still living in town and they sold the house about 15 years ago to the people that are in it now, and the strange part about it - they also have 3 boys. The former almost had 3 boys and my boy didn't have a brother and he surely wanted that brother, but we just couldn't give him a brother. I did not have any problems. Occasionally, when I'd go out in the evening somebody might get kind of a smart attitude, but I never did have any trouble with men trying to outsmart me or financially or being rude to me because I had known several of the couples that he had known the six months he was here, you see, we lived in an apartment and met a lot of the - the McDaniel Heights Apartments is an apartment that a lot of people in Greenville started their lives in and I still know some of them. Just were about starting housekeeping like I was for the first time. I did have an apartment in Charlotte one time, but that didn't last long. Skip made me get it before he came back and I had a place for him to be with Pat and Mike without my parents being in the way, but they never have bothered us. They never have tried to run our lives and never did and we've just been strictly independent. Later his family moved to Greenville, we agreed we would not live in the town that either of our families lived in, but his father died in the meantime and his brother was in Burman, so his mother and sister moved to Greenville to be close to the other brother, 3 �and that's the reason we ended up - and it's been fortunate because we're all close and she needs us and we need her. FB: MA: You had touched briefly upon seeing articles or little bits and pieces about the AVG, but what was your reaction during that period of time you probably also knew that the Japanese were practically taking over Asia and the only real bright spot was the Flying Tigers. What was your reaction as a person here - a wife of one of the Tigers here in America what was your reaction to what was going on over there? We didn't like Japan trying to take over China, but that has been for thousands of years between the two countries - misunderstandings. China has been able to take care of itself and we thought that with this work that Chennault and the Flying Tigers were doing, that China had a chance of survival. (break) MA: The little bits of news that was in the paper were billed from the back pages of everybody's news and it was - Charlotte being a much larger city had better coverage probably than Greenville papers, but it meant a lot to them and to my friends here in Greenville it meant a lot knowing that Skip was over there. FB: We're trying to get a sense of during the dark days in China 1941-42 when the Americans, the British, everybody was being defeated over there, but this one group called the Flying Tigers had incredible successes against incredible odds. And your husband was over there. There was People, there was Time Magazine, there was Life Magazine, it was a big thing, but you had much more personal insight into all that. I guess what we're looking for is your personal reaction to the successes of the AVG when all else seemed to be lost. MA: The news filtering into the papers about the Flying Tigers in China of course affected me quite a bit and my friends who at that time had widened considerably, were impressed with it and would ask me questions that of course I didn't know, being so far away. But they kept up with it and were just most impressed. When Pearl Harbor came along, my 12 year old friend down the hill, the boy, came up - I had just come home from Sunday School with my two little kids and I had a rose garden at the top of the hill then - now it's grass - and I was looking at the rose garden, I had planted some pansies, and Do said "Ms. Adair, I hear the Japanese have bombed Pearl Harbor and Singapore and where's 4 �Skip?" I said "what?" He said "It's all over the newspapers" - not the newspapers - I think then the newspapers hadn't even come out - "It's all over the radio news" and so of course I had to turn on the radio and that was about 11:30 on Sunday morning, which was not too long after it really happened - come to think about it - 'cause that was Sunday. So I was informed of it right away by my little neighbor and the other people were concerned about me in the meantime. Don, next door had gone - he'd been in the Navy he'd gone back and became a Commander in the Navy and people were just leaving [?] my friends who had been in the service of any kind. FB: Well as they left, Pearl Harbor and the time after that, there was no real successes. The people that went over there were not being successful with the Japanese, but the Flying Tigers were. What was the reaction back home in the dark days before you knew the successes of the Flying Tigers? MA: It was just incredible. No one could believe how this little group of pilots could be performing such fantastic feats over there and it was Chennault's genius - I think it was nothing short of that - the way he trained them to attack and I think he should go down in history books as a genius in flying and having pilots trained. (break) FB: During the time that they were the American Volunteer Group, The Flying Tigers, what do you think Skip and Chennault and all the pilots and ground crew and nurses and doctors accomplished for the morale of the United States and the defense of China? MA: Well it was just so tremendous a thing that I cannot express it. Everyone was talking about the Flying Tigers and what they were doing. And some people didn't know my husband was over there. Some people thought - as I told you - the boy said that people were saying that I didn't have a husband - but to people around here the man that sold us the house knew I had a husband and the next door neighbors knew I had a husband because they were the only people here. In fact, there were just the 3 houses then - oh there were 4 - the one at the top of the hill. All the other houses have come in since then and the road wasn't paved. When we moved here it was a red mud road and Skip's brother, one of the last night he was here it had been raining before Skip left and he skidded down the terrace in that mud and they couldn't get the car out anyway so they had to send him - somebody else had t take him home and come back the next day to get 5 �the car out of the mud. But those people, that night were part of the group that of course knew Skip was around and knew that he was part of it and I think we all felt like Skip was always safe. I don't think it ever once entered my mind - I know some women were so fearsome - maybe I just didn't have sense enough to be afraid, but I've always believed in him and he must have always believed in me. 6 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Marian_1991-06-06_v03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Marian "Steve" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Marian "Steve" Adair interview (video and transcript, 3 of 3), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Marian "Steve" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Adair, of Charlotte, North Carolina, was the wife of pilot Skip Adair. In this tape, Adair discusses how the year she spent in China affected her life and marriage with Skip Adair, in addition to how the Flying Tigers affected the morale of the United States and China. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a3c384584adf07bb8ef439b766b94ff3.mp4 834772fec0998c4185297962dbc16603 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/704fcff906dc5cf9c1e7111265dd2ca6.pdf 62bb01bfdaf4ff998607ce493e21e15e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Marian "Steve" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 2] FB: If we could, your personal observations of Chennault. MA: Well, Chennault to me was, as I say I met him first at a get together at a party. The Kunming, employees, or whatever you call them, that were working with him, were all there and he was just a quiet gentleman, playing host to the group. He was helpful because I didn't know how to handle this food you're supposed to cook like Sukiyaki, except it had a Chinese name. I did it again. FB: I think when you met Chennault at this party and he was very helpful and then go into the story about the Sukiyaki. MA: When I first met Chennault, was at a party that they had a get together of a CNAC and the instructor school, he was there and very quiet, very gentlemanly and very helpful. Trying to make me seem at home in a foreign country. He even helped me try to learn how to make the Chinese version of Sukiyaki which I have still not learned to pronounce. My inflections of the Chinese is not to be admired by anyone so I'll stop trying to, I did learn to count, and I left one number out. I don't know which one it is, like an E or some [?], I get lost in the middle of it but that's just part of me. Dead ears I suppose. Then later, he used to come and see the little girl that was the daughter of the common dot in Yu Nang Yee when he was up there, she was somewhere about 5, 6 years old. And he always came by and spoke to her, he seemed to enjoy knowing her. And one instance, he had come by, this was a year later, had come by to see my baby Pat, the redhead that was born in Manila, and he wanted to see that thick of hair. And so, he came out and Mama was giving her a bath and he just had more fun watching that little baby, probably about 3 or 4 weeks old and that evening I went out to supper with the gang to McDonald's and I 1 �guess I'd been living with the one that was the hero of kings. Had an apartment together and had us over there and he had arrived before I did and if there wasn't anybody else. Most of the people had arrived. He had been telling them about he had seen the redhead take a bath and of course they lived in what was called a fishbowl in Hong Kong, all of the apartments you could see from one apartment to the other. And so they were all trying to decide which redhead had not drawn the curtains, and when I had arrived, they found out that he talked about my baby Pat. But we got along fine. And he liked having his little jokes. FB: What are some of the things that you recall about Chennault's personality - in regards to you in terms of when he would talk to you? Did you feel like he was listening to what you had to say? Did it seem like he was interested in talking to you or was he just very much a part of the group? MA: When I was around him, the most, it was… the conversation was that he was talking to me and felt like I was a good listener. You probably can tell by the way I'm talking now, I'm not much of a talker. I guess when I get excited. FB: What things would he talk to you about? What kind of things did he talk about? MA: Well, one things about all the wars going on in the world and the standings of the Russians and the English and the Chinese and the branch - it was just astonishing some of the things he would come out with that I thought, my goodness, but I never did repeat what he said to anybody because he was talking to me and nobody else. FB: Did he tell you what he thought was the danger from Japan, that China was in danger? MA: I think so, that could have been included in this conversation he had with me. I mean he was just talking to me. I've forgotten we were going somewhere in a taxi, there were 3 of us in a taxi and he was on one side and I was in the middle. And it seemed to be very serious to me what he was talking about - his expressions of what was going on in the world. FB: What did he look like when he was happy? What would his face look like when he was happy? 2 �MA: He was just that relaxed little grin, with a few more wrinkles showing when he was happy. I never did see him when he seemed to be exuberantly happy. I don't think he was the type of man that would express his feelings too much. FB: What other kinds of emotions did you see in him, when he talked to you and he was maybe very serious about something? How did he look like to you? MA: Well, when he was talking seriously, he was very somber and was really concentrating on what he was saying, he was just not talking off his head to make conversation with me. He was expressing some deep feelings of his that would not be repeated and he knew it. Now I don't know that I ever had any reason to have conversations with him - he would visit us in our quarters at Mitchell Field later after Skip had gone back into the Air Force and brought his little dog with us, and his little dog chased the rats. Had fun and wanted to see the redhead again. And of course, that was before Stephanie was born and Mike was there - I had two redheads then, and I don't think he got to see him, I think they were in school the day he came by. He enjoyed it. We enjoyed having him. FB: If he was standing in this room right now, what would we see? Describe Chennault for us. MA: Well, he was, he'd be a middle-aged man, and probably looking older than he was because of his furrowed face, but a very alert person. Very much interested in the other part of the world. It wasn't just him, he was interested in other people and individuals as well as world affairs. FB: There was an incident you had mentioned about flying in an airplane with Billy McDonald? Do you recall that McDonald was flying from... If you could tell us about the trip that you took that was arranged on Man Tuck Hai Shek's [?] airplane? MA: I finally got ready to, Skip had proceeded to Yu Nang Yee and I was left in Kung Nang. McDonald who was one of Da Nang's pilots, got permission for Reynolds to fly me to Yu Nang Yee on the Madame's plane. FB: Start again, because of the phone. 3 �MA: Skip had left me in Kung Nang waiting for me to get transportation to Ny Nang Yee and McDonald who must of you know as Billy, and I always called him Mack got permission from Madame Chiang Kai-shek to fly me in her plane and Roland was the pilot, he and McDonald were the two pilots and it was fun because I had not flown in a small plane before and the dog which Skip had inherited from one of his friends who had just left, was in the back seat looking over our shoulders and got a little car sick and between me and the dog I think the pilot had his hands full, but we made it. Probably in good shape. And Skip was there waiting on us and was happy to see us and the dog was real happy to see the ground and Skip. FB: If you could give us an idea of, here you are a young married couple, and you had a child that was back in the States, describe to us what that must have been like? Here you are in a foreign country, you're in a backwoods environment, you're a young married couple. Living in a foreign land, your child back in the States, you're in actually a dangerous, even though you had a couple of air raids, it still was a war zone, if you will What was that like? MA: I didn't really feel, I felt the pressure of there being possible air attacks, but I felt I was being cared for, and I knew my child back home was being cared for and as far as being lonely I supposed I was lonely, but I was busy doing something all the time. Because the house you saw the curtains in there and you didn't see probably the bedroom and all the curtains, I made all of them by hand out of cooly cloth. Hems and ruffles on them, then the covers to the two things that looked like studio couches in the living room, and if there was a table cloth, I had done something to put an edge on that and I finally started making some clothes for myself and the houseboy rented a machine for me - a Singer sewing machine. I don't know how much, how he conned the tailor in the town to part with that machine for a week for me to use it, but he did and he - they were just very kind to me, all of the people, the house people and the people on the street, they would acknowledge the presence but they weren't, there was nothing threatening, the only thing Skip told me to be aware of the dog because they were unpredictable and our dog, himself was unpredictable. He'd been trained to chase the lights from the flashlights and just went wild running around the compound after the walls were finally built, chasing that light, and I told them I thought it was cruel that they shouldn’t do the dog that way but they went on and did it. It was fun to watch the dog. My dog chases around here, and I think she just chases herself. She has a ball that she grabs hold on occasion then, runs around, will not give it to anyone, she doesn't play pick and return to the owner. 4 �FB: Did you find life in China, a surprise, was it surprising to you, things that happened there? What kind of things did surprise you out there as an American woman out there? MA: Well, the, of course, I was brought up in a good size city which was Charlotte, N.C. and the difference in living in a fairly large city, not Metropolis, but a large city, and to see the difference in the streets and the roads, and the housing and the lighting and the, all the facilities was not unexpected because Skip had written to me about everything to expect when I got there, so I was not seeing the streets being used as a deposit stories, and no plumbing, no running water we had two Cooly boys that their one job was to bring water and gasoline in cans. I don't know what we would have done without the gasoline cans. 2 gasoline cans - only? A mile and a quarter from the one place you could get drinking water and this was all you used for all our household water and out tubs, they had to fill to keep the water on the stove, made out of gasoline cans and our latrine was made out of gasoline cans, everything, we don't know what we'd do without those 5 gallon cans. FB: What things in China upset you? MA: Well, I think the filth. In a way it couldn't be helped, in a way you'd think that somehow along the way that something, whether it been that the poor little children being strapped on the mother's backs, we see our children being strapped on the mothers backs when the mothers go shopping, these days just like those little infants out there, and that's the modern way of young mothers taking care of their children there. That [?] what the [?] had done for years. FB: What sorts of things amused you about China? MA: I don't know that I got amused too much. Now I enjoyed the Chinese Theater. It came to entertain the troops, so to speak, the boys and the Flying School, when we were invited to attend, and I had absolutely no idea what was going on in the stage, it was fun to watch with all in Chinese and expressive, but still I didn't know what was going on. FB: How did that year that you spent in China, how did that year affect you? 5 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Marian_1991-06-06_v02 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Marian "Steve" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Marian "Steve" Adair interview (video and transcript, 2 of 3), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Marian "Steve" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Adair, of Charlotte, North Carolina, was the wife of pilot Skip Adair. In this tape, Adair describes her personal observations of General Chennault, in addition to her experience as a young married couple living away from their child in a foreign land. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9bde23484c9938a23132fd5b42e9fc41.mp4 81294a96cfba4730d106b840d537bd31 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fb819585952585bd65934bf0cfe0e18d.pdf ffb9e0b1392d6b0421b2711f48d27a97 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Special Collections & University Archives RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interviews Interviewer: Frank Boring Interviewee: Marian "Steve" Adair Date of Interview: 06-06-1991 Transcriber: Frank Boring [TAPE 1] FB: Now is this your given name, or is this a nickname? MA: My real name is Marian Jeannette Stevens. And Skip's sister nicknamed me Steve and I've been called Steve ever since. FB: Steve, if we could begin with when Skip decided to go to China in the first place, what was your reaction to him to go off to China? MA: I knew when I met him that he had planned something. So I was not surprised when he went. FB: Steve, if you could tell us your reaction of him going to China. MA: When I first met Skip, I knew he was planning to go somewhere. He was in between. And it was to China. FB: What did you know about China at the time? MA: Nothing especially, except what I had read in the papers and history lessons. FB: And what was it that you had read or heard about? MA: Well it was such an entirely different lifestyle and people and we were in America. Those people living in China and their beliefs and yet some of their women had been educated in the United States which was very important and since I wasn't 1 �there for this they had gone to the Methodist Church and gone to the Methodist schools. FB: Now when he finally asked you to come to China, what was your reaction? MA: Well because I was really excited and my whole family was excited, the thought of their baby leaving the country and leaving her baby but my family thought it was the thing to do and my mother offered to keep my child and he really had a lot of love and care. My sister, Virginia helped her with care and he's known nothing but love all his life. FB: What did you find when you actually arrived in China, give us some of your observations, your first reactions, if you will. Here you are a young woman, American, you've heard your husband is going off there, you've seen things in the movies, read books, and everything, what did you actually find when you got to China? MA: Well, I landed in Hong Kong when I first arrived all the noise on the street and the conversations back and forth, not understanding anything, the [?] shows, that was fun and the most exciting thing was and upsetting thing was he was not there to meet me. He had had his friends meet me and the young lady that met me was Margaret Potsmith. It was a wife of, I've forgotten her husband's first name, Potsmith, he was a pilot, one of the CNAC's pilots. We became very good friends. They had made reservations for me at the Hong Kong and somebody else had made reservations at the Peninsula Hotel. And it ended up, Skip came in the next day, I think there was a Typhoon and the Indian Ocean I think was supposed to go through Hong Kong to get to Indo-China. And that was great pleasure. FB: Now, where did he take you next, where did you leave, when you left Hong Kong, where did you go? MA: We went by boat to Hathong [?] and then on up the train, a little local train to Mongsa [?] where there was a group of Americans stationed there, what they were doing, I don't know. Part of them eventually ended up in Kunming or had been in Kunming or Yunnan Ning. And became great princes, some of them. 2 �FB: What did you find when you arrived there, what was your living accommodations like? MA: The living accommodations in Mongsa [?]… I was only there a few days but the hotel we were in had been part of the French Embassy. The French had just recently left Indo-China. FB: Where did you go from there? MA: Went on up to Kunming, Baa, the French Railroad and it seemed like an awfully long trip but it wasn't as long as I thought. We arrived and all of Skip's buddies were there to welcome us. And that's all of the immediate reaction, I had to, things happened so fast about then. I have very little recollection of it. FB: When did you first meet Claire Chennault? MA: Sometime later, probably several months, I met Col. Chennault. That's what I always called him. That's what he was when he left the service before and at his own home in Kunming I met him with a group of other Pre AVG's and the CNAC pilots and of the men stationed in China. FB: Begin at the beginning of where you were when you heard the sirens go off and then… MA: Of the first air alert that I was in, was in Mongsa and just doing nothing but hanging around. Everybody said get your things together. We've got to go to [?], so we did, I think about a dozen of us. .When the Nang men went off to Rios together, we really did nothing until the siren stopped and then we got the all clear sign and we went back in. And it was exciting because I didn't know whether there'd ever been an air raid or not, but to expect it. FB: Amongst the Chinese population, either there or later on in Kunming, you had stated that you didn't have too much contact with Chinese people personally, but what were your observations of the Chinese in terms of their daily life or of this condition that they were in, though we saw pictures of goiters and things like that. 3 �Can you give us a sense of what it was like to live there and what your reaction was to the Chinese people? MA: Well the Chinese people that I knew some slightly through Skip's work and through our help, and our house boy they were very cooperative and wanted to help me in any way they could. The boys could even understand my English and I couldn't even understand their Chinese. Which was interesting. One house boy got fascinated because we let him run the Victrola. Played the records and after the machine wound up while he was playing them and he loved the Beer Barrel Polka. And one day by mistake, he got in and found the Begin the Beguine and the young boy was so hacked. Because he liked the rhythm of that Beer Barrel Polka. And the people on the street were in awe of me I think, they were polite and helpful I'm sure, If I had needed any help, mostly I was walking down at the airfield waiting for Skip to come in and walking around behind the hills behind the house and the, and one time, I know, when I arrived there, Skip had hoped to have a home built for me and the rains came and washed away the mud brick. So I stayed in the main neighboring town in a nice two-story complex, kind of a U-shaped building in the owner's quarters. And our house boy, Oscar, his family went over there with us. And it was fun. I finally bought a pair of Cooley shoes because all of my shoes were uncomfortable for walking the Chinese roads and highways and so the Chinese thought my big feet were just riots. They were pointing at my feet and I just laughed. And of course, I didn’t know what to think I just met them flat, didn't make any difference to me, I knew my feet were big. And seriously I didn't have a real Chinese friend and when I was in Hong Kong, I did meet and have lunch with Butterfly Woo. She had heard I was there and heard the girls talking about me and I had tried to play [?] with some of the women, and [?] she wanted to meet an American woman, so Mary Margaret Potsmith and I had lunch with Butterfly Woo. Now the big deal was that Butterfly Woo would speak English to me and would not speak English to anybody of America. And the girls just couldn't believe that she was talking to me in English. But she realized that I couldn't understand her Chinese and didn't want to go around an interpreter. So we had a very nice luncheon and that was my visit with Butterfly Woo. FB: Without trying not to sound too ignorant, who was Butterfly Woo? 4 �MA: She was the young lady that the young Marshall, I think they called him, a Chailor, became involved with and I don't exactly know what the situation was, like everything else, there's stories. But she had quite a reputation but she still seemed to be a fine young woman. FB: Did you witness any of the, what you would call brutality? Amongst the Chinese? There were executions for example, or anything, did you ever have any recollections of those? MA: They were very peace loving people and as far as I was concerned, they are definitely family people and loved the children, they of course, the medical situation out there, it just looked like they let the little flies and varmints eat up the sores that were on the children but possibly they didn't know anything better to do because it was definitely in the backwoods. And there were still women there with bound feet which had been outlawed for some years in China. And they all seemed to have some animal of some kind, following along with them. FB: Let's talk now about Chennault. You had a chance to get to know him fairly well, you got a chance to perhaps see a side of him that nobody else saw. What can you tell us about Claire Chennault? MA: Well, Claire Chennault, I met him first at his home in Kunming. And the group was getting together for supper and he was very friendly and kind and gentlemanly and we didn't have much to say to each other. Being in a group like that, I was sort of on the outside and looking in. I was obviously a newcomer. And then later I got to know him fairly well I think and he got to know me and we had some conversations. From your perspective, as an outsider looking in, what was your first reaction to seeing Chennault? What did he look like? Did he stick out in a crowd to you at all, was he, his face is often described as a leather face and his eyes were piercing black, did you have any of those kinds of observations about him when you first met him? FB: MA: Well, when I met him he was just one of the group. And he was much older than anyone there and I didn't react too much of his personal appearance. I've always been an observer and not a participant. 5 �FB: How about later, when you got a chance to know him better? MA: Oh, we just chattered around, general things, and some things that weren't so general. But… FB: What was your, well I guess what we're looking for is that Claire's no longer with us anymore. And all we have left, or just for posterity sake are just memories of people who did know him. And I'm not looking for you to give away any secrets, or anything like that, but what I am looking for is a personal perspective. You knew him and I didn't. My father knew him and I didn't. I guess what I'm looking for is for you to be able to give me an idea of what you like so much about him. MA: Well, I liked the man because he was quiet and was not trying to impress anybody. He had his own way of doing things and receiving people and handling himself. He loved children and he loved animals. He had a little Dachshund that he had with him for years. And the little dog, he'd say rats and that little dog was under the sofa and everywhere else looking for rats. And he, one of his favorite tales in Hong Kong after Pat was born, this was a year later than, he came by to see Pat have a bath. And I didn't think too much about it, went out to dinner that night and fortunately one of Skip's friends had let me use his house because his wife had been evacuated back to town, to Canada… FB: You're doing fine. The only problem is that the fabric on your pants, when you touched......... 6 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Adair_Marian_1991-06-06_v01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adair, Marian "Steve" Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1991-06-06 Title A name given to the resource Marian "Steve" Adair interview (video and transcript, 1 of 3), 1991 Description An account of the resource Interview of Marian "Steve" Adair by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Adair, of Charlotte, North Carolina, was the wife of pilot Skip Adair. In this tape, Marian "Steve" Adair discusses her reaction to her husband, Skip, going to China and her first impressions upon joining him overseas. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (interviewer) Christopher, Frank (director) Fei Hu Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Language A language of the resource eng https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3ab106ea64c374957817dbacde2f002d.mp4 0ce8d6b5f6dfee3c3c54b103fcf51c1e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4ae4cf1d790726392e24b16fc1921d20.mp4 b150f2bdf7fc420cac284c15a8fc4914 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6261a87d91672b29eca26c13480b5176.mp4 b8f7ec8a1aa17b738e4938eaa74c1b99 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/22f4920ddbc47736ac2225964129cdb0.mp4 7e132bc229e648a6957111377b97fad6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7cf7e2bfa9eb165fb40f1a00007d42be.mp4 fb0f4b448493ee166dca867e903ecd80 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f2c46a49f5b59819a606ce8e2f65acf3.mp4 6a75bd5231089f246b01a5a1ded4fdcd https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c731253a8b60d625f4460943ec8684d0.mp4 5bb546abb3c7996141d480641a73c0ed https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8cc8f2f5831abfd54df0e066f42d74d8.mp4 43ca73b5fb41dcdced866b19a96fb4f1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7d184f7833f46ed26d88b6b72488931f.pdf 3bd49ef7fa6dab5adda171ba273e21f1 PDF Text Text RHC-88 Fei Hu Films Flying Tigers Interview Interviewee: “Tiger” Wang Date of interview: March 19, 1991 Transcriber: Tingyang Lewis Liu Transcribed: June 13, 1991 Note: Interview is conducted in Chinese. The transcript is a translation into English. Not all interview questions may be audible. INTERVIEWER: Before AVG, before Chen a De came, what's your background? What's your position in China Air Force? Where did you get your training? Where did you go to school? Like these stuff. TIGER WANG: I learned things about the air force in Canton. This is all right. I learned things about the air force in Canton. INTERVIEWER: O.K. Let's begin. This is the first question. The first question is "What's your background? Where did you get your training? Where did you go to school?" TIGER WANG: This is something about aviation. We only talk about things in aviation. INTERVIEWER: Right, Where did you get your training in aviation? TIGER WANG: Where did I get my training? That, of course, I have been trained in Soviet Union. I may say that the beginning class was in China. We, in Canton, when we were in Canton City, the consultants were Germans. There were Germany consultants. At that time, I was in Canton Aviation School. The Canton Aviation School was established by Dr. Sun Yat Sen himself. In China, there were two most important leader for the development of China Air Force. I can say without any hold back that, without these two leaders I don't know. I am afraid that there won't be China Air Force. The first one was our Dr. Sun Yat Sen, the second one was the late president Chiang Kai-Shek. Right after the success of Chinese revolution, he established the Wang Pu Military School in Canton. The Wang Pu School..., I was a Wang Pu first-class student. I was only 18 years old when I went to Wang Pu for the entrance test. Wang Pu School was established by Dr. Sun Yat Sen and the late president Mr. Chiang. I may say that the establishment of our Wang -Pu School was very important for the success of Chinese Revolution, we were in a very important position. Then, who established the Wang Pu School? It was Dr. Sun Yat Sen. Who 1 �was the principal? It was the late president Mr. Chiang. It was them. Not long after we graduated from the Wang Pu School, Dr. Sun and the late president Mr. Chiang established another school again. They thought that it would be if we battled only by the Army in the future. Air Force would become very important for the future wars. So, not because we as students want to praise our own teachers, the development of the military forces were done by Dr. Sun and the late President. After graduating, they want us Wang Pu student went to learn how to fly A plan immediately. At that time, the first class of Canton Aviation School had only 10 students, Dr. Sun said that Aviation School's students have to be in the Air Force. Then, who was the one that took responsibility for this school at that time? It was the late President. However, we established the Aviation School. There were only several old planes when we got the school. Very few instructors were Chinese; at that time, all the Chinese instructors learned how to fly in foreign countries. So Dr. Sun invited Germans; he let Germans run this school. There were three Germans then: one was the principal named Yang-Er-Ti?, a German. All these people had taken part in World War I. Flying instructor was Fong?, Gram,? a German, who also participated the World War I himself. At that time, we cannot called it "the Air Force" because there were only a few planes. The other was a mechanic named Ligers? All these were German names, right? All of them were Germans. So, it was German that help in establishing the Canton Aviation School, the principal was a German, the flying instructor was a German, the mechanic was also a German. There were only 10 students in the first class of the Aviation School, only ten. Dr. Sun encouraged us that students from Wang Pu School will be the first priority for this school. So that, we, as students in Wang Pu School. So the first class students of the Aviation School were all came from Wang Pu School except two Koreans. I thought that it will be interesting to have Koreans here. Why there were Koreans in a Chinese aviation school? Because at that time, Korea was occupied by Japanese. Japanese occupied Korea so that Korean's cannot have their own aviation schools. Not only this, they were not allowed to own airplanes. Because Korea was occupied by Japanese, the Japanese would not allow Korean to learn things about air force, they would not agree to do it. So, in the students of the first class of the aviation school, Dr. Sun accepted two Korean. We can tell from these places that he was really a great person. Dr. Sun not only started Chinese Revolution, Wasn't Korea a colony then? He treated other people just like he treated his own people. So, when established the aviation school, there were ten students in total. Dr. Sun have us Chinese sent eight students and kept two positions for Korean's. We should tell the world how great a person Dr. Sun was. So the 2 �Chinese aviation school as well as military school were both set up by Dr. Sun while the late President Mr. Chiang were in charge. The aviation school was established by Dr. Sun and the principal was Mr. Chiang. We can say that the Chinese Revolution. How China can take the responsibility for revolution, one was because Dr. Sun Yat-sun, the other was the late President Chiang Kai-Shek. Without these two leaders, we dare not say what would be the result of the restore of China's power and glory. Why I want to talk about all these events? For Chinese Revolution, no matter it was for military, air force, navy, especially for air force, all were established by these two leaders. I believe that there won't be any other country in the world has the same thing regarding these events. So, if without these two leaders, we cannot make sure that whether the Chinese Revolution will be succeeded. I dare not say and cannot say Whether or not we can keep the Republic of China in Today's status. So, when we talk about the events about China's military, no matter it's army, especially air force, navy, all were created by Dr. Sun and run by the late President Mr. Chiang. He, the late President Mr. Chiang completed the order of Dr. Sun, so that there are Chinese Army, especially Air Force, and Navy today. Without these two leaders, I dare not say that the Chinese military forces will in the same status as today. So, when talk about big events of China, especially the armed forces that restore the nation's power and glory, we can say it was Dr. Sun that created them all, and the one who completed his order and great ambitions was the late President. Therefore, they were not only leaders for revolution, the were leaders for the country. When we mention, when we discuss in today, no matter what kind of military forces, we must understand that the it were Dr. Sun and the late President who first created, promoted, and got it done. I believe I hope that not only Chinese that must understand, those countries that were either treated us friendly or unfriendly will all understand. INTERVIEWER: In 1937, when Japanese invaded China, what's the situation of the Air Force? What's the situation of Chinese Air Force? Was there an air force or not? TIGER WANG: Have a little bit. Are you talking about the Chinese Defensive War? INTERVIEWER: (Man) Yes. Chinese Defensive War in 1937. TIGER WANG: The development of Chinese Air Force was somewhat late, but the procedure of our development was not fall behind. We Chinese Air Force. Not because I was an official in the Air Force to say good words about it, the Chinese Air Force, after establishing, never fall 3 �behind. Of course it was pretty difficult to establish the Chinese Air Force. First of all, we need aviation industry, which we did not have at that time. Second, we need aviators. There were not so many of them at that moment, either. It was not that simple to develop the air force or aviation. One must be very good in industry, have lots of talented people in aviation, it never been easy. So, it was very tough for Chinese Air Force on the road to develop, to restore; it was very tough. But, what the Air Force learned were not fall behind. I did not mean that we take our very limited amount of plans to compare with the United States, with Germany in the very beginning. We just cannot do this. Why I said that we were not fall behind was according to the leaders, the people in the Air Force, and the training procedures, namely, the procedure to train the aviator. We may say that in these events, we were not only not fall behind, we were much better than that. Although we cannot compare our planes with those highly developed countries, that demands a good aviation industry. Our aviation industrial techniques was not so good, this required both money and men of ability, especially talents as leaders. I may say that it was Dr. Sun Yat Sen that created the Air Force, later, the late President Mr. Chiang developed, promoted, and established the Air Force. Today's Air Force was established by Mr. Chiang himself, this should be aware by everybody. It was, of course, not that easy when we try to develop, to build up. We did not have even basic aviation industry, in addition, we cannot train our own aviators by ourselves when we first started to develop. Most of our experienced people got their training in other countries, in Great British, in Germany, and in French. As long as we want to develop something, especially something important, we Chinese have to learn it from others. Particularly from the U.S. Air Force, I dare to say, in the development of Chinese Air Force, the U.S. Air Force were the most helpful. My student said, his instructor in the Air Force was also an American, and the American consultant helped him to become an aviator. Therefore, Chinese Air Force was assisted by American in every aspect, like people, equipment, etc. I can say that without a friend like America, the Chinese Air Force cannot develop so fast like we do today. INTERVIEWER: When the Defensive War began, I mean, when the Defensive War began in 1937, how was the Chinese Air Force's ability in fighting? How many planes did we have? How many aviators? What's the battle capability? TIGER WANG: I can say, I can say strictly, and I think that my students will agree with me that we got lots of help from other countries in developing Chinese Air Force. Without the help from all these friendly 4 �countries in giving us training, etc., it would not be so fast in our development. I can say, we did not fall behind as we started to develop. In the skill part, we did not fall behind in the skill. It was truth that we cannot compare with those countries like America, Germany in the instruments and equipment, but, in the usage of these equipment, in how to learn those abilities that related to the air force, we Chinese, I dare to say, were not fall behind. When talk about the planes, the equipment, we were far behind those developed countries. Our planes, our Air Force had a very important relationship with the U.S. I can say, we Chinese Air Force, if without American people, equipment, and other things that related to the air force to help us, I am afraid that our development., It would not be that smooth on the road of development. So, the America to us, the relationship between our Air Force and the U.S. Air Force were very close. I can say that without the help form America in air force, we will encounter many difficulties when try to develop. INTERVIEWER: This is very important. But what we want to know now is, when General Chen a De came to China.... INTERVIEWER: (Man) You have to give this question to General Wang first, because General Wang… INTERVIEWER: Today we are going to ask some personal questions, for example, you and General Chen a De, what your opinion about Chen a De, these questions, all right? What is your suggestion? This will be better. INTERVIEWER: When did you…O.K. TIGER WANG: Go ahead, go ahead. INTERVIEWER: Under what situation did you first meet General Chen a De? TIGER WANG: Me? INTERVIEWER: Unhn, when you met General Chen a De for the first time. TIGER WANG: Chen a De came here as an advisor in the beginning. INTERVIEWER: (Man) Yes. He was an advisor. How about you and Choid?? Before Chen a De, it was Choid?, how was you and Choid?....When did you first see him? Under what situation did you see him? 5 �TIGER WANG: I may say that the development of the Chinese Air Force would be affected tremendously without the help provided by Americans. At first, the aviation school, a base for the Air Force to develop aviators, was in Hangchow. This aviation school in Hangchow..... In the beginning, when we start the Hangchow aviation school, the late President Mr. Chiang had invited Americans to be advisors. There was a General Advisor from U.S. Air Force named Choid?, we translated as Chou Wei-teh?. Choid?, Chou, Wei-teh came with a group of people that mostly selected from U.S. armed forces. Later on, Choid? left and Roland? took over his job. When we established the aviation school in Hangchow, Roland? and the American advisors helped a great deal in providing people, equipment, how to develop, how to teach, how to teach how to fly, and how to teach mechanics. At that time, the Hangchow aviation school was the most important base for the development of the Air Force. In this base, just as we started, just began the semester, the American advisers came. So the American advisors had a very deep relationship with the development of the Chinese Air Force. INTERVIEWER: When did they allocate General Chen a De to China? Why him? TIGER WANG: Just as I said in the beginning, the highest organization was the Aviation Agency which was the highest office in charge of the development of the Air force. The late President Mr. Chiang, in order to gather talents for the Air Force, expanded it into the Aviation Committee. The Aviation Committee became the most important organization for the development of the Air Force. So, when talk about the development of the Chinese Air Force, we had encountered many obstacles, but, under the leadership of the late President, we overcame all of them one after another. INTERVIEWER: What's the condition for Chen a De to come to China? TIGER WANG: You listen to me. In the beginning, among our advisors, we invited advisors as soon as the school was established, Choid? was in a higher class; he was the head of the advisors. In the aviation school, the advisor that concerned about the flying instruction was Roland. There were several advisors, all had took part in the World War, under Roland's commands. So, right after establishing of the aviation school, we got some American advisers immediately. At that time, before this, the late President sent me to the Soviet Union to learn flying, to learn the air force stuff. When I came back, the aviation school was just about to begin, so I..., Mr. Chiang want me to serve as instructor for flying. That was when I just returned from Soviet Union after stay there for seven years. I went to the aviation school right after coming back, and the school 6 �was just about to start. There was an Aviation Committee and Choid? was the advisor for that Committee. Roland? was the advisor for the aviation school. At that moment, Roland? and those American instructors, and those advisors in the development of our Air Force, Choid? and Roland? contributed very much to us. INTERVIEWER: Then Chen a De...... O.K. We may stop, O.K. INTERVIEWER: (Man) When Chen a De. INTERVIEWER: I mean when. TIGER WANG: At first, people that related to the development of our Air Force, the first one in aviation, we cannot called it "Air Force" then, was the aviation advisor Choid? The one actually contributed to flying was Roland?. INTERVIEWER: Then, when did Chen a De come? TIGER WANG: You listen to me. After Roland?, when Roland? left. (Can we stop for a minute? There is a airplane flying.) All the advisors came from America, so we only talk about American advisors here. As I told you, our Air Force once try to get Italian aviation advisors, air force advisors. Later, there were Russians. But, ever since the beginning of our Air Force, there were American advisors helping us. And, about.... INTERVIEWER: TIGER WANG: When did Chen a De come? You listen to me. When he came first, Chen a De had lived in Hangchow, also in Hangchow where we had a unit, the aviation school. But, Chen a De did not stay in Hangchow for long before we start to fight with Japanese. I can say that Japanese was very concerned with the development of the Chinese Air Force. Japanese, when the Double-seven Defensive War began, it was Japanese. At that time, in the urban areas, not only urban areas, we Chinese people were discussing about one thing said that Japanese concerned with the rapidly developing of Chinese Air Force very much, they concerned it very much. So, for Japanese, some people said that the Defensive War broken out was because Japanese would not wait until our Air Force reached certain achievement. This was not spread by the Air Force people, it was discussed by general publics. They said, if the Air Force did not develop so quickly, Japanese may not started the war at that time. About this, I.... We cannot say whether it was true or not, but some people thought so. 7 �INTERVIEWER: When did the Voluntary Group first come to China? TIGER WANG: That was after Chen a De. You listen to me. When Roland? left, we invited another advisor that was Choid?. No, not Choid?, that was Chen a De. Chen a De did not come here very long before the beginning of the Defensive War. The Air Force School moved to Chengtu? first, and later to Kunming. Chen a De was always with us along the road to Kunming, he was always with us. It was Chen a De from then on. Our aviation school once moved to Chengtu?, then to many difference places in Kunming. The Air Force also moved from Chengtu? to Kunming, then the school reopened. INTERVIEWER: The Voluntary Group first came to..... TIGER WANG: There was no Voluntary Group at that time. INTERVIEWER: Then, what was the condition when the AVG first came to Mainland China? We are talking about the arrival of the Voluntary Group, AVG. TIGER WANG: When the AVG came, I tell you, AVG was established in Kunming. We were in the Defensive War at that time, and all the bases have been moved to Kunming, and the Air Force Academy was moved to Kunming also. The Air Force Academy had a very close relationship with the Defensive War. When we moved to Kunming, Chen a De was the General Advisor already. I was once the Dean of Education of Air Force Academy which actually was the President of the Academy. Then who was the president of the Air Force Academy? It was the late President Mr. Chiang. INTERVIEWER: When the AVG Came..... TIGER WANG: You just slow down... What did you say? Chen a De with several other advisors stay at the Academy first, and he and me...... I was in the Academy also then. He was a general advisor to our flying instructors. There were three or four people under him, all moved with the school. I was in charge of the school when in Kunming, so I have a very close relationship with Chen a De, we have been through hard times together, we are real friends. When he was in Kunming, there were no very many flying advisors, only several other people. but when we moved to Kunming, we began to train our people there, and Chen a De was always the General Advisor for the Air Force Academy. We were in the Defensive War then. Americans did not involved when we began the defensive War, you know that, right? After moving to Kunming, Chen a De was 8 �always the general advisor for the aviation school, Besides, there were several other advisors. At that time, as I told my American friends, the Americans did not involved into the war yet. They did not eager to fight for.... at that moment. But at that time, even American friends knew, what's they knew? they knew that the war between Japan and China will get America involve inside in the future. INTERVIEWER: Then, when did the AVG..... TIGER WANG: You listen to me. The U.S. will certainly get involved. In our government, to tell the truth, we understand this also. I told them quite often, said that Americans, in the future, when our American friends were threatened by Japanese, they will, and must come to us for cooperation in military. We had this idea at that time. But our American friends, those Americans, they, too, understood this only they cannot admitted. They cannot say that someday we will join together to fight Japanese, because their government did not declare war yet. That's why when the U.S. government decided to take part at our Defensive War to fight against Japanese, Chen a De was appointed by his government right away to take charge of the battle. He became not only a general advisor for training of aviators, but also a general advisor for the Air Force. In this history, American's advisory group was established step by step. When in Kunming, right after the U.S. government decided to participate the war, Chen a De began to set up the American aviation team when he still serve as the general advisor for the Air Force. At first, it was a voluntary group, It was voluntary. At that time, even Americans knew that Japan will fight with America someday. So, when in Kunming, Chen a De was a general advisor first, when the war began, the U.S. government immediately appointed him to be in charge of the battle. At that time, due to his government's strategy, he still cannot take part in the war. So, the relationship between countries must be built step by step. We and the U.S. Air Force had a very good relationship even before the Defensive War. Chen a De was a very important people in establishing this relationship. He knew that someday Americans must fight against Japanese, so, when he was still a general advisor for flying training, he never spoke in public anything about the battle, he said it was not my duty, in fact, we had discussed secretly. This is a joke that we discussed secretly, but he did provide with the Air Force many things that related to... not only..., he just did not participate in the war directly. When America involved into the war, he immediately..... In fact, he was well prepared already. 9 �INTERVIEWER: But the AVG was established before the U.S. got involved into the war directly. TIGER WANG: What? INTERVIEWER: The AVG was established before the U.S. got involved into the war directly. TIGER WANG: Yes. It was before e. the AVG was established in Kunming by Chen a De, and then also directed by him. INTERVIEWER: How is he? The procedure, What's the procedure for the establishment of the AVG? TIGER WANG: The AVG was established step by step. At first, there were several instructors in his team, if he participate.... It was not established very rapidly in Kunming. Before the establishment of the AVG, Chen a De was already in Kunming. He was always in Kunming at that time to be with the school. knew that the U.S. government.., at that time, Japanese was in Hanoi, Vietnam, they had invaded Vietnam already. American participated in the war after Japanese invaded Vietnam. Then, for those Americans like Chen a De, the U.S. government gave him a title immediately which stated that he was located in China to represent the Air Force and then established a voluntary group. It was only a voluntary group instead publicly announced that this was the the U.S. Air Force. After establishing the AVG, they set up another unit, a battle unit, what's the name of it? It seemed that Chen a De had a very long title, so he make fun of it himself, he told me, he said: Tiger, look at my title, I got a very long title for my position. What was the title? It was the General Advisor of the Air Force of Republic of China, Chen a De with American Air Force in China..... (Man: China Air Task Force). American Voluntary Group's, he was not the commander at that time, it was a squadron commander. Later, this title was changed. The U.S. government want the air force to set up a formal American organization in China (Man: China Air Task Force). Ya, Ya, it was China Air Task Force. INTERVIEWER: The conditions in Kunming when the AVG established. TIGER WANG: In Kunming, before it establishment, the American understood that Japanese will enlarge the war for sure. So, General Chen a De understood that the U.S. Air Force will come to China once it became necessary. Before the U.S. government declared anything about what the air force is going to do, he will not say anything. But, when we talked, we discussed this situation very often. So, 10 �when in Kunming, Chen a De was only a general advisor for my school, but he knew that once the American government decide to involve into this war, his job will be changed right away. So, he has prepared in advance at that time, but we can only say so in private occasion. He cannot say that we are going to do so and so in the future, he never did. Americans never release military secret unintentionally. Therefore, I knew it clearly that, when served as the general advisor, before the establishment of the AVG, he had prepared for the day that they will take part in the war. So, when the U.S. government announced that there will be an American voluntary group in China, he got it ready immediately. At first, when the AVG was in Kunming, there were only a few flying instructors which was not enough. Later, his followers came to China very quickly and the AVG was established gradually. First, the unit was called a team, not a group. So, it was the American Voluntary Team first, some America..., I thought that the U.S. government must have a completed plan. If Japan joined..., if they joined the war against Japan, Chen a De will in charge of the Air Force in conjunction with the Chinese Air Force. So, when the AVG was established, their people have came to China already. I knew it, who said it was a voluntary group? The U.S. Air Force officers pretended that they were volunteers; in fact, they represented the American's..... But we 'd better not to say this although, in fact, it was just like this. Part of them, I can make sure that part of them were volunteers, but those who really take part in the battle, were prepared by Americans in advance. It must be well-prepared before. So Chen a De ..... At first, this group was a temporary unit instead of a permanent one. I think this was all for an excuse. Therefore, it was Chen a De that in charge of the U.S. Air Force when they began to fight in China, that was why Chen a De was so familiar with them. INTERVIEWER: Ambassador Wang, when the AVG was established, what was your rank in the Armed forces? TIGER WANG: I was the Assistant Commandant (Executive Officer) for the Chinese Air Force Academy, which was, because the President was the late President Mr. Chiang, so we were called Assistant Commandant, in fact, it was the President. At that time, I have set up the Fifth Area Air Force..., Chinese Air Force Fifth Area General Headquarter. The Chinese Air Force set up the fifth area headquarter, I invited Chen a De to plan for the headquarter in battling and also in organizing, etc. So, before the establishment of the AVG, it was me that..... Because the Fifth Headquarter was to direct the battle for Chinese Air Force, Chen a De understood that if he take the responsibilities to organize the troop in the future, 11 �namely, the AVG, because the Americans did not declare the war against Japan yet, they cannot say they were in the war. But, Americans had prepared very early and we cannot cover this fact, even Japanese knew this themselves. INTERVIEWER: After the establishment of he AVG, began....... with the Chinese..... TIGER WANG: No, no, I will tell you. TIGER WANG: No, no, let me tell you. What's the situation when the AVG was established? When Americans decided to involve into the war, there was a temporary in its title: it was a temporary air force voluntary group. Not only Americans but also Chinese that voluntarily came to join this group. There were Chinese in this group. Of course, there were no Chinese that served as pilot in the group, but there were many Chinese served for positions like mechanics and others. So, when the AVG was established, all the aviators were came from America. INTERVIEWER: How many? TIGER WANG: I don't remember how many. It was a voluntary group, and was established step by step. I can say that most of the ground staff were allocated by me and were Chinese. INTERVIEWER: How was the relationship between Chinese and American in the AVG? TIGER WANG: Very good. Not Bad. INTERVIEWER: Please repeat by question. I mean you have to say in the AVG, Chinese and Americans... TIGER WANG: We can say that the AVG..... I was there when they started it in Kunming. I and General Chen a De. He was my general advisor, general advisor for flying. Because he was in this position, so he invited my to be his, it cannot be called an advisor, he just asked me to help him. He he was in my school, I was the general advisor; when he organized the AVG, he invited me to join his temporary group, too. In fact, for that temporary group, he invited me to help him. So we had a very good relationship in from the beginning of the temporary group in personnel and many other fields. We cooperated well. When in Kunming, the temporary group was just established, I may say that all the ground staff were allocated by me. All the ground staff were allocated by me. All the aviators 12 �were Americans, but the ground staff, like mechanics and others were sent to them from me. INTERVIEWER: How was the relationship between the aviators and ground staff in… TIGER WANG: There was no problem at all. We got a very good relationship. We Chinese performed very well when cooperated with Americans in the air force. When Chen a De's temporary group first established, if there were no Chinese, we would not have ground staff. Most of them were Chinese. INTERVIEWER: Ambassador Wang, do you remember the Burma Road? The Burma Road that was defended by the AVG and was bombed, do you remember? TIGER WANG: What? INTERVIEWER: INTERVIEWER: (Man) Burma. Burma. TIGER WANG: Oh, Burma. INTERVIEWER: INTERVIEWER: (Man) The Burma Road The Burma Road. TIGER WANG: Burma Road, ah, I thought you said........ INTERVIEWER: The Burma Road, not the Burma Road. It was the Burma Road. TIGER WANG: The Burma Road. In fact I was in Burma Road when Chen a De was in Burma Road, in Burma. I did lots of things at that time. At first, he was at northern Burma..... What's the name of that place? (Man: Lashio). Right, Lashio. Isn't that true that American established the AVG? The headquarter was set in Lashio. I went there very often. Because at that time, Chen a De, especially about the personnel, about the personnel of ground staff, all were helped by we Chinese. At this moment, Chen a De was no longer the general advisor for the Air Force Academy; he resigned already. He was the Commander of the Group for full-time. INTERVIEWER: Ambassador Wang, do you still remember Stilwell? TIGER WANG: Stilwell? I know. I know. INTERVIEWER: What's the difference between he and General Chen a De? 13 �TIGER WANG: It is very difficult to express. It is very hard for me to criticize them. INTERVIEWER: It is not to criticize rather than..... TIGER WANG: I know it clearly; I know it clearly. INTERVIEWER: So how was it? What's the difference between them? TIGER WANG: Stilwell he. When first came, he was also with very few people. There were not very many people with him when he first came. Stilwell, at the same time, he and. As I know, Stilwell and General Chen a De probably did not have chance to work together in America. Stilwell was a complete serviceman and Chen a De, at that time, was kind of a half soldier, half ordinary people. Chen a De has retired for a long time then already. When he served as our general advisor and some other things, he was retired already, but later, he restored. As far as I know, due to many different reasons, it was not so easy to cooperate with Stilwell. I don't know how to say. INTERVIEWER: It doesn't matter, you can say that. TIGER WANG: No, nothing special..... But, in American troops, it is their private issues when one or two people did not want to cooperate. It is their own business. INTERVIEWER: What's the major differences of their Chinese policy? TIGER WANG: Their Chinese policies, I can say that Chen a De served in China for a much longer period. In many events, he understood the situation in China. So, Chinese and he both have special feeling toward each other. Stillwell was a complete serviceman, I may say, he was a hundred-percent serviceman. He took his things as top priority in many issues. Chen a De understood China much better. As I know, they two. I am afraid that Stilwell was not only cannot go along with Chen a De.He was relocated from India later, wasn't he? I thought that the U.S. government moved him.. I thought... INTERVIEWER: So, basically, Stillwell and Chen a De..... Change the tape. INTERVIEWER: (Man) Stilwell he....... TIGER WANG: I know. Stilwell considered too many. 14 �INTERVIEWER: Can we start? TIGER WANG: He considered too many, and he was too intransigent. He could not communicate with the late President Mr. Chiang very well in some aspects. His opinion could not go along with the late President Mr. Chaing. Talk about Chen a De, if compared with Stilwell, he was much more agreeable. Stilwell was very intransigent. Once when I went to India, He was in India.. INTERVIEWER: (Man) Ranguard? TIGER WANG: I don't remember the name. INTERVIEWER: (Man) Ranguard.? TIGER WANG: I met him in India and he was still. He was still. His characteristics. He was very. He spoke openly when he did not feel comfortable with someone. INTERVIEWER: Self-centered. TIGER WANG: Yea, he spoke openly when he did not feel comfortable with someone. INTERVIEWER: How do you think about his opinion? Were they correct or incorrect? TIGER WANG: Some of them were incorrect, some of them. I thought that Stilwell did not has enough experience in real war. His fighting experience was not enough. He got his own idea. He it was not before long when he was moved from India. He did not stay there for a long time before the U.S. government moved him. INTERVIEWER: So you think that his opinion toward the late President Mr. Chiang was not correct? TIGER WANG: He got different ideas to our late President. I cannot say that they are all different, but most of them were different. I thought that he got his own idea on the relationship between we and India. He always showed that he thought that there were some consideration by the late President Mr. Chiang for things related to India. INTERVIEWER: Then how was the attitude of the late President toward him? For example, critique about him. 15 �TIGER WANG: The late President knew everything. He was really a great person, he knew that Stilwell have an attitude against him, but he did not. But he could not get along with Stilwell in many aspects. He could not bear them, either. INTERVIEWER: What's the late President's critique about him? TIGER WANG: About the critique, he would not do that. The old gentleman would not criticize an American general. The late President Mr. Chiang would never like this. He would just ignore him, namely, for those who doesn't want to cooperate, I just ignore you. INTERVIEWER: What was his attitude towards all the critiques from Stilwell? He did not explain, He just ignored them. TIGER WANG: The late President knew everything about how he criticized him in India. That's why sometimes I fell that there were misunderstandings between them. INTERVIEWER: Misunderstanding in what? TIGER WANG: For example, in political and military events, relationship between China and America, Chinese and American policies toward each other. At that time, during the Defensive War, that's for sure, we hope that China and America can work together closely. As a matter of fact, it was very reasonable for two countries to have different points of views on certain affairs. Stilwell was very intransigent, he never care about other's feeling. The late President knew this because Stilwell criticized him in public quite often. the late President said that he knew this, but he did not. He had the manner as a leader. [Background ---- Noisy sounds] INTERVIEWER: Give me the thing. TIGER WANG: About the formation of the Flying Tigers. INTERVIEWER: Right, so when you begin...Let's say this first. Now we say hello to all the Tigers first. Say that in English, right now. TIGER WANG: That's... In English, right? INTERVIEWER: Right. You just say Who I am, because I cannot come, so I greeting you here, O.K.? Say that now. TIGER WANG: Ladies and gentlemen. 16 �INTERVIEWER: Look at me, look at my direction. We do it again from beginning. You have to look at here and say ladies and gentlemen. Let's do that again. TIGER WANG: Right now? When shall I begin? INTERVIEWER: Right now. TIGER WANG: I say that now. INTERVIEWER: Unhu, right. TIGER WANG: Ladies and gentlemen, I am General Tiger Wang. This year is the fiftieth year of the Flying Tigers anniversary, but I cannot going to there see you everybody. I am very sorry. Wish to you everybody in good health. All time is good, good, and good. I hope I'll see you again, ok, again, again, and again. INTERVIEWER: Very good. Now I am going to ask you some more questions. Was there any direct relationship between the formation of the AVG and Madam Chiang? TIGER WANG: Shall I answer it right now? INTERVIEWER: Yes, you may answer the question now. Start with Madam Chiang... TIGER WANG: Have a very important relationship. INTERVIEWER: What have a important relationship? Do you mean Madam Chiang? You have to repeat my question first. You just say there was a very important relationship between the formation of the AVG and Madam Chiang. You start like this. TIGER WANG: There was a very important relationship between the formation of the AVG and Madam Chiang. Not only this, we may say that not only the establishing of the AVG, she contributed to the diplomatic relationship of China and America directly. This was also a very honorable thing to the Air Force. So, Madam Chiang not only helped the Air Force, the nation, she had contributed very much to the nation, to the Air Force. She made it possible to establish the AVG which was a very important thing. It was very important especially for Chinese Air Force. INTERVIEWER: What did she do? How did she help to form the AVG? 17 �TIGER WANG: At first, she was in the States to deal with the Americans. As I know, before the establishment of the AVG, she was deal with those Americans that related to this event, even the U.S. Air Force. She tried very hard to establish this organization. INTERVIEWER: So she had been in America for lobbying, right? Madam Chiang? TIGER WANG: I cannot say it was lobbying. She devoted herself for the country. INTERVIEWER: Right. Right. Yes. Can you explain the political background of the formation of the AVG? Namely, why Americans want to establish the Flying Tigers? How did it match with the needs of China? Did China ask to establish the Flying Tigers? Or, did Americans want to have the Flying Tigers themselves, too? What was the political background? Would you please explain this. TIGER WANG: I think this question is related to the country. INTERVIEWER: It doesn't matter, ambassador, because this is history already, this is for public. We only want to know your personal opinion. TIGER WANG: When the AVG was established, Madam Chiang rally devoted herself to this job. Before it was formed, as I know, she did lots of works to those top persons that related to the Air Force as well as the Congress because there were many Air Force officers in the Congress. So, As I know, before the AVG was formed, Madam did a great job in developing relationship with different areas and to talk with them about this issue. It was a great contribution to the country and the Air Force as well. INTERVIEWER: Did General Chen a De participate in the battle himself? Did General Chen a De fight with the enemy himself or he was only a commander? TIGER WANG: We did not know it clearly when he was in the United States. He did not come to China then. INTERVIEWER: You must say "When General Chen a De was in America," because you got to speak out his name. You say "General Chen a De....... TIGER WANG: When in his own country, General Chen a De contributed to his country and to the Air Force very much. But we did not understand the situation clearly, so we cannot described it. But we did know that he tried very hard in the Congress and in the Air Force to 18 �make Chinese and American Air Forces keep a very close relationship. He contributed to this event very much. INTERVIEWER: Did he battle with the enemy himself when in the AVG? Did he fly? Battle? TIGER WANG: When he was in the AVG. INTERVIEWER: Say General Chen a De, say his name. TIGER WANG: When General Chen a De was in the AVG, he did fly. But about fight with the enemy... As I know, he was a commander, a commander to the AVG. No matter up to the sky or on the ground, things were all in his plan. It was not necessary for him to battle personally when he served as the leader of the AVG. He was the commander. INTERVIEWER: We know that during the Defensive War, the late President have to fight against, in one side, Japanese, in the other, Chinese Communists. Can you explain this situation? At that time, can you explain the situation then? How the late President...... TIGER WANG: As far as I know, when fight against Japanese, General Chen a De contributed very much to Chinese Air Force, to the cooperation with Chinese Air Force, and to commanding. But about against the Communists. INTERVIEWER: No, I mean the late President Chiang. At that time, in Mainland China, the situation was troubles within . TIGER WANG: You mean late President Chiang! INTERVIEWER: Yes. Troubles within and without. He got to fight against Japanese and Communists. So the burden to President Chiang was very heavy: troubles within and without. Can you explain the situation at that time? Talking about the President Chaing, have to fight against Japanese and the Communists. TIGER WANG: How can I explain this. The President's ambition was to make the Republic of China a modernized country. If, no matter it was foreign countries or from inside of China, it was harmful rather than helpful to the country, then the President, for the future of the nation, cannot help but to use military forces. INTERVIEWER: The situation must be very tough at that time. What was the situation? 19 �TIGER WANG: The situation.... it was a very severe problem for the country. I believe the old President was not willing to have civil war in China. But he cannot allow the enemy to hurt the country. In order to save the nation, to rescue the people, he just cannot neglect the situation, he would not. INTERVIEWER: At that time, even until now, some people said that the late President only fight with the Communists instead of against Japanese. TIGER WANG: They cannot say that. INTERVIEWER: He did not take fighting against Japanese as top priority. TIGER WANG: No, no. We cannot say that. If he did not fight against Japanese. INTERVIEWER: General, would you. TIGER WANG: For example, in China, we called fight against Communists as "Attack against the Bandits" INTERVIEWER: Right. So they said that the late President just attacked the bandits but did not fight against Japanese. This was the critique from foreign scholars toward him. I hope you can explain this here, all right? Please repeat my question when you ready to start. TIGER WANG: I think they were wrong to criticize the old President on this point. INTERVIEWER: All right, all right, repeat my words first. You just say: "Somebody said that the late President just attacked the bandits but did not fight against Japanese." Repeat this sentence first and then say what is your opinion. TIGER WANG: Somebody said that the old President just attacked the bandits but did not fight against Japanese. I think that they are humiliate him, besides, it was not a fact according to the history. In contrast, many people said, to stabilize the inside before repel the outside. I agreed this idea totally. To stabilize the inside before repel the outside did not mean to fight against both sides simultaneously; this would make the country suffered too much. So, I totally agreed with the late President's strategy of eliminate inner bandits first and then defend outside invader. If we cannot unify the nation and collect all our strength to defend invaded enemy, our country's strength will be weakened. At that time, there certainly were some people said that the late President just attacked the bandits but did not 20 �fight against Japanese. For them, I have one question to ask: You said the late president did not fight against Japanese, then how we won the Defensive War? Who lead us to fight for the victory? It was the old President that lead us to fight for the Defensive War. So, if somebody said that the late President just attacked the bandits but did not fight against Japanese, I will say that this is just nonsense. INTERVIEWER: Will you please say that again because we did not get it right yesterday. You say when Japan invaded China in 1937, did the Chinese Air Force have strong power enough to against Japanese Air Force? I mean, how many pilots, how many planes did Chinese Air Force own? TIGER WANG: I don't know. I don't know the pilot. INTERVIEWER: Repeat my words first and say when Japan invaded China in 1937, the Chinese Air Force. Repeat my word first, all right? TIGER WANG: That was about the Defensive War in 1937. At the time when the War began, we Chinese Air Force were prepared and were trained for, but did not have a very powerful ability. The important thing for battling is that the ability to fight got to be continued. At the time we prepared for the War, we only have part of the Air Force prepared. We did try our best to train our men. I served in Air Force at that time. INTERVIEWER: How many planes? How many pilots? How many planes that can fly, can fight? TIGER WANG: How many planes at that time? I may say that in quantity. The fighting is depend on two things, one is the quality, the other is the quantity. When the war began, I think that the quality of the training of the Chinese Air Force was very good. But as the war going on, there were certain losses which was inevitable. When try to supply for the losses, we encountered many difficulties. INTERVIEWER: During the Defensive War, Japanese Air Force bombed many Chinese cities, can you describe your feeling when you saw those cities slaughtered by Japanese bombs. Can you describe what did you feel? TIGER WANG: Of Course, at that time. 21 �INTERVIEWER: Repeat my word first and say when Japanese Air Force bombed these Chinese cities and made uncountable losses, what was your feeling. Repeat my words first. TIGER WANG: When the Defensive War began, Japanese has prepared a very powerful Air Force which I can say that was much stronger than ours. But, I think that in many places, the Japanese Air Force should not bombed anywhere they want, they should not do this. At that time, people in many cities worried about and suffered from this very much. They worried and suffered too much. I think that in strategy. INTERVIEWER: Change the tape. Japanese troops planed to went through but was destroyed by the AVG, on the Salween River...... Ambassador, do you remember that event? TIGER WANG: I don't remember that. INTERVIEWER: Everybody knows, people knows your nickname. They prefer to call you Tiger Wang. Can you explain why? How did you get this name? When you are ready to start, when you ready to say, repeat my words first and say "people always call me Tiger Wang." and then explain the original of this name. TIGER WANG: Some people call me Tiger Wang, namely Wang Lao Hu. I got this name because when fighting for the Air Force, I was famous for not afraid of death. I was like that in the Air Force, furthermore, when I trained my followers, I focused on teaching them to be not afraid of death also. There were two things that we mentioned all the time when trained our followers in the Air Force which stated "Not afraid of death," and "Not covetous for money." I may say that the spiritual of the Chinese Air Force in "Not afraid of death" is very respectable. It is not because I was a member in the Chinese Air Force so that I praise it, it because. When talk about the quantity of the Chinese Air Force, we were much weaker than Japanese Air Force. INTERVIEWER: So the origin of your nickname was. TIGER WANG: In addition, people call me this is possibly because when I trained my followers and my students to be not afraid of death. To train my troops and my students to be not afraid of death, I have to be not afraid of death myself, right? When I train the air force, the idea of not afraid of death was a very important....This was a fact for the education. 22 �INTERVIEWER: Is there any relationship to the Flying Tigers? Your name Tiger Wang and the Flying Tigers. TIGER WANG: No at all. I got the name, Tiger Wang, long before the formation of the Flying Tigers. That was when.... There were many reasons for this name Tiger Wang: because I treated my followers very strictly and I paid serious intention to military regulation. It was not only because I did not afraid of death in flying that get me the name Tiger Wang, I was very restricted to my followers. For those good followers, I did my best to promote them; for those followers that were not so good, I would not do bad things immediately, I just retrained them more strictly. In the Air Force, I can tell you, it was not that easy to train a good pilot. So, people call me Tiger Wang is because I always requested strictly and because of my bravery in fighting. INTERVIEWER: Could you explain to us the influence of the AVG on China? TIGER WANG: I may say that the AVG did contribute to our country for a great deal. Because at that moment, to tell the truth, if we depend on our own Air Force, it would be too painful for us. In comparing with Japan, we were far behind them. At that time, people felt that our Air Force was not good enough in both quality and quantity. We requested very strictly in quality and the training was very tough. INTERVIEWER: People said that Chinese and American Air Forces have a very good relationship until today. How is your feeling? What is your opinion? Repeat my words first. TIGER WANG: The relationship between China and America... Chinese and American Air Forces have a very good relationship indeed. One of the reason for this is because the Chinese Air Force, when we started our aviation school, when we set up the aviation school in Hangchow, the first advisor that we invited were an American. Like Choid? and others, all the instructors were Americans. At that very moment, Chinese pilots and American pilots have built a strong friendship. I can tell you, the relationship between teachers and students are more important than anything else. TeacherStudent relationship, I mean for teacher and students, especially for air force, teacher and student were having a relationship to live or die together. For example, a teacher go fly with a student, if something goes wrong, the plane crashed, the teacher will die as well as the student. So it is very logical and reasonable for us to say that the teacher and student in air force have a very special relationship. We have a good relationship with the U.S. Air Force, one of the most important reasons is because there is a teacher- 23 �student relationship between us. I may tell you, this is a major reason. INTERVIEWER: How about the relationship for today's Chinese and American Air Forces? TIGER WANG: The relationship for today's Chinese and American Air Forces are still very good and it will be good forever. Although there are some differences in the countries' and the government's policies, but in personal feelings, we are still good friends with the U.S. Air Force. INTERVIEWER: Are the relationship from fifty years ago still the main reason? TIGER WANG: Of course. This is a very important reason.... INTERVIEWER: Repeat my words. The main reason. TIGER WANG: Of course. The main reason is because there is a teacher-student relationship. The teacher-student relationship is a live- and-dietogether relationship. We keep a very close relationship with the U.S. Air Force until today, the main reason is because this important relationship. INTERVIEWER: We know that five months after the establishment of the Flying Tigers, the Pearl Harbor Incident occurred. Would you please describe your feeling. Was there any change after the incident? Was there any change for the U.S. Air Force, the AVG in China? What's the situation? TIGER WANG: The Pearl Harbor Incident. INTERVIEWER: Repeat my words, the Pearl Harbor Incident occurred in December 1941. Then go on, O.K.? Repeat my words first. TIGER WANG: What is the purpose of your question? INTERVIEWER: Before the Pearl Harbor Incident. INTERVIEWER: After the Pearl Harbor Incident. Before the Pearl Harbor Incident, America did not participate in the war. The only thing they have in China was the AVG to help Chinese Air Force fight against Japan. After the Pearl Harbor Incident, America take part in the war. To you, because you were a general in China, an Air Force general, O.K.? How did you feel? Was there any influence for the AVG? 24 �Was there any influence on their battle strategy or anything else? What's your feeling? TIGER WANG: About this question, just like I mentioned before. INTERVIEWER: You have to repeat and say the Pearl Harbor Incident occurred in 1941, and then continued. They cannot recorded my questions, O.K.? TIGER WANG: O.K., O.K. INTERVIEWER: Let's do it again. TIGER WANG: In 1941, the Pearl Harbor Incident occurred. This incident increase the friendship between Chinese and American Air Forces. This is a fact that it increase the friendship between Chinese and American Air Forces. When the incident happened, I was in Siberia. I was in Siberia to build an air force base so that in this wide area, the Chinese Air Force may have a base for the war. When the Pearl Harbor Incident happened, I was there to look for a proper place to be the site for air force base. At that moment, I have thought about the Siberia which was a very big wilderness. According to my judgement, if there was things happened among Japan, America and China, I believe that Siberia must be a... It will be inevitable for us to use Siberia. So, before the Pearl Harbor Incident, I can tell you, I got a plan for the base in Siberia and began to build base there. So when the Pearl Harbor Incident occurred, our base in Siberia became very useful. I remembered when I was building the base in Siberia, my friends from the U.S. Air Force went there, too. He went there to check the base. The U.S. Air Force, before the Pearl Harbor Incident, knew that it would be inevitable for Americans to fight against Japan someday. We can talk about it here that they have prepared for the set-up of the air force bases and so did the Chinese. So, after the incident happened, bases around this area did become very useful. INTERVIEWER: What you mean is that after the Pearl Harbor Incident, the cooperation between Chinese and American became even closer. TIGER WANG: Closer? Yes, it is true. After the Pearl Harbor Incident, Chinese and Americans cooperated to each other closer. And, all those higher ranked officers in the Air Force knew that there would be a day like this. So, the reason I built the base in Siberia was not only for us, the U.S. Air Force use it more often than we did. 25 �INTERVIEWER: O.K. Can we go back and talk a little bit about... Because you were the trainer for Chinese Air Force, can you tell us the methods Chinese used to train our air force staff? Is there any difference to the methods used by the U.S. Air Force? TIGER WANG: What? INTERVIEWER: I mean is there any difference between the training methods of Chinese and U.S. Air Forces? TIGER WANG: Memorial? INTERVIEWER: No, I mean. TIGER WANG: For Chinese and American Air Forces, I can say that, from the beginning of the training for both Chinese and American Air Forces, all the content are the same. It is true that they are the same. I can tell you, because, for Chinese Air Force, when we established in Janchao?, Hangchow, the school had invited Americans from Air Force to be advisors and flying instructors. Not only as advisors, but also as flying instructors. At that time, training foundation, training methods, selection of Air force staff were almost all followed what Americans did for their own air force. So, for Chinese and American Air Forces to cooperate is very easy, very sincere, very easy. Those American instructors of the air force came to our place, I can say, they did not think they were Americans anymore; they just the same as Chinese, that's truth. The cooperation of China and America was not succeeded in a short period, especially for the Air Force. The training methods and training procedures of the Chinese Air Force were the same as it of the Americans. When I went to America, that was because American instructors came her to train our people to fly, so they invited me to The U.S. to inspect and evaluate. I went to their aviation school and found it was the same as ours. They were totally similar. In the training methods, training, even daily life, all the training were the same as in China. This is one of the reasons that made it very easy for Chinese and American Air Forces to cooperate. General public may think that the Chinese and American Air Forces. As a matter of fact, why the Chinese and American Air Forces can form and looked like from the same country is because when the training began, we have the American instructors, American advisors. In the meantime, we Chinese thought that the training and education of U.S. Air Force was really very good. 26 �INTERVIEWER: At that time, a traditional flying strategy for Air Force was to have three planes fly together, but General Chen a De's strategy was to have two planes. TIGER WANG: What two plans? INTERVIEWER: I mean, at that time. TIGER WANG: That is the formation of the air force. In the formation of the air force, a squad team has three planes, sometimes four plans. INTERVIEWER: But General Chen a De's method, his strategy was two planes. TIGER WANG: That was a. This was not a permanent. INTERVIEWER: How did you feel, because two planes, it was a new formation for two planes. It was a new strategy at that moment. TIGER WANG: It was not a. INTERVIEWER: We want to know what your opinion about this thing? Can we start it over again. When you begin, we will work on this question from beginning. When you start, repeat the question first. TIGER WANG: I don't understand this that clear. INTERVIEWER: You don't know it that well? TIGER WANG: Let me tell you one thing. I have a very close relationship with the U.S. Air Force. For example, when they established the AVG; the formation of the AVG was a very big event for America and for the Air Force. It was very important. Let me tell you, in the AVG, there was a Group Commander, the next were Squadron Commanders, and then Squad Team Leaders. I will tell you now that the AVG was established in Kunming. After established, Chen a De, and this was not his opinion alone, invited me to be their second leader that equivalent to the deputy group commander. At that time, it was not so appropriate to give me a title as deputy group commander, but they invited me to join them. Chen a De invited me to be the deputy group commander, because there were not only Americans in the AVG; there were many Chinese in the group included Chinese aviators. Therefore Chen a De invited me to served as, he cannot called me deputy group commander, but it was one of the leaders for the group. I don't think many people know anything about this. When he invited me to do this, I tell him that I got to ask for the President's permission because I am a 27 �Chinese officer but most of the staff in the AVG were Americans and, as a matter of fact, it is an American troop. The AVG was an American troop, therefore, when Chen a De asked me, but he cannot say please be my deputy group commander, to be one of the leaders. I told him right away that I cannot make decision myself for this issue. Because for a Chinese officer get into the American military system, I got to ask our old gentleman. I went to see the old gentleman myself, and the late President agreed with my suggestion that Chinese officers should not be the leader for American troops. So, finally, our old gentleman permitted and told Chen a De that I will serve as a second leader, but it cannot be announced to the public that I am the deputy group commander, just like a guest which will not be included in the system. So, I think not many people knew about this thing. INTERVIEWER: Did this issue has any influence on your future as a serviceman? TIGER WANG: No, no. there was no influence at all. I tell you, for those came to help the Chinese Air Force at about the same time, we had American advisors, Russian advisors, and once Italian advisors. Sometimes we invited American advisors and Italian advisors simultaneously. Therefore, the Chinese Air Force invited advisor from America which were largest in amount and have longest history. Next was Russian advisors. It was during the China-Soviet Union cooperation period. There were Russian advisors in Army, even served as pilot for the Air Force. We have been with American Air Force as well as Russian Air Force. I learned how to fly in Soviet Union. The other was, I am afraid there were very few people knew this, our cooperation with Italy. Our Air Force once had Italian advisors and there were many Italian flying instructors. I think most of the people did not understand this. What we hope was that no matter which country help us to establish the air force as long as they treated us well, emphasize on his own air force, and owned a very powerful Air Force themselves. So, in the Chinese Air Force, we have American advisors; during the China-Soviet Union cooperation period, we have Russian advisors; once one even have Italian advisors. And I have been to Italy to got my training. INTERVIEWER: All right, at lat, would you please.... TIGER WANG: We try to suit each other's needs, so, when you are ready to go public. I feel that the AVG was really very helpful for the Defensive War. In the Air Force, for the strength of the air force, the AVG did a lot of things. It was very powerful for the Defensive War, in war ability, in the Chinese war ability. And, the thing that 28 �makes me feel very respectful was that though our American friends were volunteers stayed in China to help increasing the war ability of China government; I may say that these friends were very respected by me because they tried their best to help, sometimes I feel they tried even harder than they will if worked for their own country. I am not telling this to the American friends only, it is just the truth. For example, I said this before, that the AVG took me as one of their members. I did not tell this to show that I did something in the group, but in order to increase the strength of our American friends, I did try my best to help. To help them was just like to help Chinese ourselves and was equal to work for we Chinese. So I think that these friends in the AVG did devoted themselves to help us. It was not because I have very many American friends, especially in the Air Force, so that I say good words about them. It was not truth, I will never do things like that. I can say that they came to China to fight, and I believe that they will not work harder for their own country than for ours. They did try their best regardless of live or die. So they. I have many American friends in the Air Force, we have the same opinion and all agreed on this point. Especially the U.S. Air Force, they were always with me in battling and training. So, I can say that they did. They did not showed any difference for providing their service to China than to the United States, they were all the same. This is one of the reasons we call our American friends good friends. INTERVIEWER: All right, thank you, thank you. TIGER WANG: This is why we think that the American friends are the best friends. INTERVIEWER: We will finish this very soon. Please say anything as you wish, like some more comments and feelings in your own words. You may say anything you want from now on. TIGER WANG: Take myself as an example, when I began to learn how to fly, I have lots of contact with foreign air forces. As I said, I have been working with U.S. Air Force, U.S.S.R. Air Force, and Italian Air Force, all of them. So, I respected these countries' Air Force staff. They never said that because I am an American served in China for Chinese Air Force, I will do worse here than I will in my own country. Even Russians were like this. Therefore, for the air force staff, I can say that they emphasize on their honor as the most important thing.... [English.] 29 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Flying Tigers Interviews and Films Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Description An account of the resource Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG. Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Boring, Frank Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938/1991 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fei Hu Films Christopher, Frank Gasdick, Joseph Misenheimer, Charles V. P.Y. Shu Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4; application/pdf Language A language of the resource English; Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource video; text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1938-1945 World War II Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Tiger Wang interview (video and transcript), 1991 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Wang Shuming Description An account of the resource Interview (video and transcript) of "Tiger" Wang Shuming by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. The interview was recorded in Chinese and English, and the transcript is translated in English. General "Tiger" Wang Shuming was a member of the Chinese Communist Party who had trained in aviation in the Soviet Union. He served the nascent Chinese Air Force as a flight instructor at the Chinese Air Force Academy, established in Hangchow and later moved to Kunming. When the American Volunteer Group (AVG) was established by Claire Lee Chenault to assist the Chinese Air Force in flight instruction, Wang was the Academy's Assistant Commandant (Executive Officer). Later, Wang and Chennault coordinated their defense of the Burma Road against Japanese bombers. After World War II, Wang led a decorated military career, and was eventually promoted to be General and Commander-in-Chief of the Chinese Air Force, and then Chief of Staff of the Ministry of National Defense. He served in the United Nations as a representative of China and later became the Chinese Ambassador to Jordan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank Christopher, Frank Fei Hu Films Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video/mp4 application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-88_Wang_Tiger_1991-03-19 Language A language of the resource chi eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a> Subject The topic of the resource Oral history United States--History, Military China--History, Military Veterans China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1991-03-19