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Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
World War II
James Abrams Interview
Total Time: 1:20:33
Background
(00:12) Born in Sparta, Michigan, in 1923
(00:27) His father worked on a railroad
o Two siblings; mother died in 1928
(1:00) After his mother died, they headed west to California
o They eventually moved to Montana, which is where Mr. Abrams spent most of
his time growing up
(1:55) In Montana, his family raised sheep
o Mentions that his father was a very good mechanic
(2:35) Mr. Abrams said he didn’t suffer during the Great Depression; his family always
had food
(2:41) Went to school up until the 8th grade in Montana, then moved back to Michigan
o Joined Civilian Conservation Corps camp
o Moved to Grand Haven, met a friend
o Got a job at Clark Piano Factory
o Soon met his future wife
(4:20) Mr. Abrams joined the Marines
o His friend joined two months before he did; ended up going to the 101 st airborne
(5:14)Enlisted in the Marines in 1942 after Pearl Harbor
o Said the Pearl Harbor incident was why he went
�Training
(6:38) For basic training, Mr. Abrams went to San Diego
o They got him to San Diego by train
o Remembers the train going through the edge of Mexico
(7:26) The first day of boot camp was rough
o The drill sergeant told him as he goes down the landing ramp, the only person he
can depend on is himself
(8:13) They worked all the time in boot camp; recalls when they were in formation one
day the drill sergeant asked for volunteers to drive a truck somewhere
o Said the truck had one wheel and two places to steer
o Mr. Abrams said this is the first time he learned “never to volunteer for anything
in the Marine Corps”
(10:30) Mr. Abrams said it was easy for him to adjust to life in the Marines, although
sometimes he would get mad
o Learned his serial number – still remembers it today
(12:04) Says he “got even” with the drill sergeant
(13:44) Said he was in good physical shape during training
(13:54) He learned to use weapons in training and mentions that he eventually became
a squad leader
(14:07) Trained on a 30 caliber, 50 caliber machine gun, 37mm anti-tank gun, he also
shot a 75mm a few times
o Talked about halftracks
(15:30) Basic training was 60 days
o Said that the first few days in the Marine Corps, new recruits are like prisoners
o There were instructors telling them what they could and couldn’t buy
o Mr. Abrams said there is something he bought because it was the only thing he
could buy at that time
(16:38) After the first 60 days, Mr. Abrams said they went into their regular outfits
o Went on liberty, etc.
�
(16:57) After boot camp, he shipped out right away
Overseas
(17:16) Shipped overseas in a ship that was bigger than a LST, but not an ocean liner
(18:11) Remembers crossing the Equator
(18:40) Landed in the Solomon Islands
o Went to Melbourne a few months later
o After that, went to New Guinea
(20:39) Talked about Ernie Pyle being killed at Iwo Jima (Ie Shima, off Okinawa)
(21:14) Guadalcanal – there was still a bit of fighting when Mr. Abrams arrived here
(22:15) When he arrived, Mr. Abrams went into the 1st Marine Division, 1st Regiment,
Weapons Company
(23:38) Base camp on Pavuvu Island
(24:06) In Melbourne, he says there were “15 women per man,” all the Australian men
were in the Islands during this time
(25:02) Melbourne was mostly for R&R, but also “in case something happened”
(25:24) Remembers sleeping in a football field in Melbourne
o Military beds on the bleachers
(25:55) When Mr. Abrams first joined the 1st Division, he said there were never any
problems with the soldiers who had been there a while
o Only one guy they had a problem with
(26:22) After Melbourne, they went to Cape Gloucester, New Britain
o (27:08) Here was the 2nd battle he participated in
(27:22) Mentions that in Guadalcanal, he was shot at
o Mr. Abrams shot back
o At this point they were in the jungles, no base camps were built here
o (28:12) Mentions that he went to sniper school; at this point he was a sniper
(28:32) The first time he shot someone: says he will remember it the rest of his life
(29:35) Mr. Abrams learned how to shoot as a kid; this was helpful
�
(29:56) “Always shoot the guy with the most stripes on.”
o This is why the Marines never wore stripes in combat
o Shoot the highest ranking soldier in line before anyone else
(30:31) He was in an ambush position
(30:50) On Cape Gloucester, all of the Japanese big guns were out
o US landed here on Christmas day (1943)
o The Japanese were waiting for them when they got off the landing craft on the
beach
o (33:44) Japanese also used Molotov Cocktails
o After they captured the point, they were there about a week
o (35:05) While they were here, Mr. Abrams said the enemy tried to bomb them
(36:17) After Cape Gloucester, they went back to Pavuvu
o Red Cross had a tent here; served coffee
o Ran into medics that told him of an instance where a man had been decapitated
on another island by the enemy
(39:12) The next battle Mr. Abrams was in took place at Pelelieu
o May have had one meeting about it to prepare them for the mission
(39:54) Says the people at Melbourne knew where his group was going to land before
they did
o Information leaked; this is why the man who was in charge would change plans
at the last minute
(40:34) In Peleliuu, he said they “blew the hell out of everything”
o Fire coming from both directions
o Lost a lot of guys here
o Believes this was the worst battle they experienced in the Pacific
o Japanese had a lot of tanks
(41:08) They had 3 squads of 37mm antitank guns
o Japanese had 105’s
(41:41) Remembers something like a big shotgun (canister round)
�
(42:40) Supported the weapons company
(43:07) They had 50 caliber machine guns, and tank destroyers
o Each tank destroyer was open on the top
(44:17) M-7 (self-propelled howitzer) fired up as well as straight (used indirect fire)
(44:44) Mr. Abrams said he tried to stay as far away from the Japanese as he could
o Says he was safer over in Japan, and mentions some injuries when he came back
to civilian life
(46:18) Stayed in Peleliu even after the fighting was over
o Doesn’t remember shots being fired after Japanese surrendered
(46:45) Didn’t see any prisoners; says he didn’t pay much attention to them
(47:30) Recalls a time when a fellow soldier was ordered to shoot a Japanese prisoner
(48:40) Remembers the first person he shot; something Mr. Abrams will never forget
o Had to pull the trigger because he knew the enemy spotted him; the guy reached
for his gun and Mr. Abrams shot him
(51:20)After Pelelieu, Mr. Abrams went to smaller islands nearby
(52:03) After Pelelieu, they started moving up the Pacific
o Eventually went to Okinawa
(52:25) In Okinawa, Mr. Abrams was put in a Reserve Squad to go home
o In a group of 5 or 6 men
o Captain Thomasma; shot in the chest
o Remembers a friend who was killed who had a girlfriend in Boston
(53:34) When they first landed in Okinawa, they fought
o Didn’t run into the Japanese until they were on the other side of town (the
capital, Naha)
(56:00) Talks about seeing the old capital city of Okinawa in a magazine years later,
looking much better than what they had seen
o “Had nicer buildings than we did in Grand Rapids”
o American contractors were sent over there
(57:05) Mr. Abrams was involved in some of the key fights in Okinawa
�o Remembers that it rained a lot
(58:05) Still used tank destroyers and large weapons on Okinawa
(58:23) Mostly offensive fighting on Okinawa
(1:00:41) After Japanese surrendered, Mr. Abrams went to the Casual Platoon
o In a group of about 4 men
o Waiting for a boat to take them home
o New captain says they were going to China because Mr. Abrams volunteered
(1:01:54) Went on a ship to China
o
(1:03 :35) Was to stay there for 6 months
o Mr. Abrams didn’t enjoy it
o His job was to protect the Japanese here
(1:05:40) Recalls stopping riots in China
(1:08:09) Recalls seeing Japanese comfort women
o Traveled with them
Going Home
(1:09:50) Mr. Abrams got back to the U.S. on a slow boat from China
o Took a train once he got to San Diego
o Train to Chicago
o Great Lakes Naval Station
(1:11:24) Got discharged March 17th, says he had malaria
o This was the first time he had it
o Had bouts of malaria later in life also after being married
(1:12:55) After getting home, Mr. Abrams got a job in Muskegon at a cement block plant
o Injured his leg on the job
(1:13:40) Eventually went to work in Grand Rapids
o Retired from here
(1:18:11) Mr. Abrams said being in the Marines helped him grow up fast
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Abrams, James (Interview outline and video), 2011
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Abrams, James
Description
An account of the resource
James Abrams was born in Sparta, Michigan, in 1923, and eventually grew up in Montana. After moving to Grand Haven, Michigan, he joined the Marines after Pearl Harbor. After boot camp in San Diego, he was shipped to the Solomon Islands and joined the Weapons Company of the 1st Marine Regiment on Guadalcanal toward the end of the campaign there. The regiment refitted in Melbourne, Australia, and then went to New Guinea prior to landing on Cape Gloucester, New Britain. After that battle, they went on to the hard fight at Pelelieu, and went on from there to Okinawa. After the Japanese surrender, he spent several months in China escorting Japanese soldiers and civilians who were being sent home.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Marine Corps
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2011-06-14
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AbramsJ1116V
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
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PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Iraq
Interviewee Name: Michael Adams
Length of Interview: 00:30:35
Background
He wanted to be in the armed forces since he was six or seven. In his junior year, he
began researching the different branches and decided on the Marines.
Training (1:02)
He trained in boot camp in San Diego, CA. He was there for 13 weeks.
While he was there he spent about 80% of his time in a classroom. It is just a myth that
when you are there you run all the time.
At first it was hard to get used to someone yelling at you inches from your face, but then
by the last third of boot camp, it became humorous.
After boot camp he spent eight weeks in infantry training. There he learned how to fight
and use his weapons.
He would then proceed to a specialty school for three weeks, in which he learned antitank assault.
He would then be transferred to Chesapeake, VA where he would learn security force
assault training, or SWAT school, after which he would work SWAT on and off for three
years. He would go back and forth to VA for three years going to school and getting
more training. (6:10)
When he worked on the SWAT team, they would train all day and then work out in the
evenings.
Active Duty (10:25)
In spring of 2003, he was sent to Kuwait, to serve in “Operation: Iraqi Freedom”
He spent six weeks at Camp Ripper, and trained for chemical warfare while they waited.
When it was time to invade Iraq, they actually heard that they were invading through a
broadcast over the BBC before they were told by their commanders.
When they were in combat they spent most of the time on the offensive because of their
aggressive colonel.
His first experience on Iraqi soil was coming out of an Amtrak and seeing a woman and
her child there. He did not expect any civilians.
While he stayed with the civilians, he found that they were very pro-American. (15:45)
When his team entered Baghdad, his team was greeted by the local population who asked
them to tear down the statue of Saddam Hussein, so they did.
His team never stayed in one place more than two days and they always slept in foxholes.
When they got to different cities they would enter, sweep through it and clear it the best
they could and left. The units behind them would occupy the cities. (20:23)
�
When the statue came down they thought the war was over, so they set up camp in the
middle of the desert and ran security for six weeks.
When he was there the whole Marine Corps unit was stopped by a huge sandstorm. It
was difficult to keep everything clean. Most could not go outside their vehicles or they
would suffocate in the sand.
After six months of service they took Kuwait public buses back to Kuwait and flew home
to CA in civilian planes.
After Active Duty (25:45)
When he was home he and his team spent their time preparing to go back. Most of his
team did end up going back but he got out of the Marines a year after returning.
The last four months he spent going to different funerals for the people who were killed
in his unit.
He spent some time visiting injured Marines as well.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Adams, Michael (Interview outline and video), 2010
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Adams, Michael
Description
An account of the resource
Michael Adams was a marine who served in Operation: Iraqi Freedom in 2003. He served as a security forces specialist who would be one of the first team of Marines to enter Baghdad. He reports observing the destruction of the statue of Saddam Hussein in Baghdad. His unit mostly patrolled in the desert after the fall of Baghdad, and he does not report problems with local civilians.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Oberlin, Cody (Interviewer)
Higley, Blake (Interviewer)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
United States. Marine Corps
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2010-05-13
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AdamsM
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
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PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Title: Ambrose, Thomas (Interview outline and video), 2010
Subject: Korean War, 1950-1953-–Personal narratives, American; United States.
Marine Corps
Description:
Thomas Ambrose joined the Navy in 1948. He trained for the Medical Corps, and
initially did hospital duty, but then transferred to the Marines and was sent to Korea to
serve as a corpsman with a line company. His unit fought a series of engagements on the
Imjin River and in the Punchbowl. He learned to use field radios and transferred to a
signal company, and at the end of his tour he served near Panmunjom.
Creator: Ambrose, Thomas
Contributor (Interviewer/Affiliation): Montney, Bobby (Interviewer); Caledonia
High School (Caledonia, Mich.)
Date: 2010-06-05
Digital Identification: TAmbrose
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ambrose, Thomas (Interview outline and video), 2010
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ambrose, Thomas
Description
An account of the resource
Thomas Ambrose joined the Navy in 1948. He trained for the Medical Corps, and initially did hospital duty, but then transferred to the Marines and was sent to Korea to serve as a corpsman with a line company. His unit fought a series of engagements on the Imjin River and in the Punchbowl. He learned to use field radios and transferred to a signal company, and at the end of his tour he served near Panmunjom.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Montney, Bobby (Interviewer)
Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
United States. Marine Corps
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2010-06-05
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AmbroseT
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0a0bf0abf7bf128b8986c63856896b3a.mp4
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PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Afghanistan
Nick Anderson
Total Time – (01:16:38)
Background
He was born in Minnesota in 1989 (00:25)
o He lived there for a year until his family moved to Grand Haven,
Michigan (00:30)
His father is an automotive engineer and his mother stayed at home with the kids
o There are four kids in the family (00:43)
He went to Freedom Baptist High School in Hudsonville, Michigan
He remembers being in 8th grade band class when he heard about 9/11 (01:01)
The news came over the loudspeakers – everyone was shocked
o There was a TV in his science class and they all gathered around and
watched it there (01:25)
The event stayed with him and was part of the reason he joined the military
Before 9/11 he had given thought to the service (01:49)
Movies helped make him want to join the military
He graduated high school in 2007 (02:14)
Enlistment/Training – (02:18)
He had decided midway through his senior year of high school that he wanted to
be a Marine (02:24)
o He chose the Marine Corps because he believed that they were the best
He based that on word of mouth and old veterans (02:41)
After signing up there were optional work-outs and class sessions on Wednesdays
at the recruiting station (03:12)
o The military expected the soldiers to know a lot of different acronyms and
general orders
He did not have any sense of what he was getting into before he was sent to Boot
Camp (04:03)
He was sent to San Diego, California for Boot Camp (04:12)
Before getting to California, he was sent to Lansing, Michigan to swear in (04:26)
o He is then sent to the airport to fly out
o Before they get on the plane, the soldiers were greeted by an angry guy
(Drill Instructor)
o He landed late at night (04:56)
�
On the bus ride to the recruiting depot, the recruits had to look down the entire
time (05:14)
When he got off the bus he was made to stand on yellow footprints, they yell at
you, shave your head, make them put their possessions in a box, give them all the
same things (05:29)
It took roughly a day or two for them to get put into their Boot Camp platoons
(05:52)
The only aptitude test he had to take was the ASVAB (Army Services Vocational
Aptitude Battery) (06:16)
o He had done it in high school
He was offered a variety of jobs but he only wanted to be infantry
Boot Camp was meant to break the soldiers down to nothing and then build them
back up (07:23)
o After that, he had to go to the School of Infantry where he learned all of
the basic infantry skills
Patrolling, shooting, etc. (07:38)
He was then sent to the 3rd Battalion 5th Marines (07:45)
o He went through little mandatory classes such as suicide prevention
He was able to call himself a Marine as soon as he was done with Boot Camp
(08:02)
Boot Camp was thirteen weeks long (08:07)
When they break the soldiers down, there are three phases that the they do it by
o The first phase is when “everybody is just like garbage” (08:21)
They are just learning the basic things – they could not do basic
things that Marines could
They could not roll up their sleeves, blouse military boots,
etc. (08:28)
The soldiers learn how to march
o They start of simple and then get more difficult (08:52)
It was not that difficult to adjust to the military life – he was used to get yelled at
– “I got yelled at a lot because I was stupid in high school.” (09:14)
It was all mind games
There were “a lot of stupid people that wanted to be Marines. If they’re getting
yelled at and I’m not, it’s fine with me.” (09:37)
Boot Camp has all kinds of recruits in it
o Some are fat, skinny, goofy looking, some say stupid things and get yelled
at, etc. (09:55)
o For some people, the military was an easy job
Some did it for school as well (10:21)
o One of the major reasons that many of the men were in the military was to
serve the country (10:44)
There are other perks that are factors as well
o There were men from all over the country (10:59)
When people messed up in Boot Camp they get yelled at in front of everyone
They had pre-pressed camis and boots that do not need to be shined (11:48)
�
There were a lot of Irish pendants that needed to be clipped on
The Drill Instructors came from all over the place
o To be a Drill Instructor you have to be crazy (12:36)
He was normally associated with a platoon with three instructors associated to it
(12:50)
o There was a senior, one that was specialized in drills, and one specialized
in knowledge
o The Senior Drill Instructor was like a father figure (13:19)
If they had problems they could go to him and he would not
usually scream at them as much (13:23)
After Boot Camp he was sent to Camp Pendleton, California for Infantry Training
(13:32)
Camp Pendleton was basically an addition to Boot Camp
o They soldiers are still getting yelled at but technically they are all Marines
(13:47)
o They give you more responsibility
They trained on the M16, M249 SAW (Squad Automatic
Weapon), explosive rounds, etc.
o They did not train on many heavy weapons (14:40)
o He did a lot of patrolling training (14:54)
When he first arrived to the fleet, he was joining a battalion that had already been
in Iraq (15:17)
At Camp Pendleton, some of the soldiers had already been to Iraq – they picked
on the new guys
After Camp Pendleton, his job was to join the unit and join their training schedule
(16:00)
o He got to his unit in March of 2008 and they went on their first
deployment in January of 2009 (16:17)
The environment was a lot more relaxed
o He had some more time to himself (16:40)
o When they were in the rear or stateside, unless they are on duty or
training, they have normal working hours (16:45)
o He did not got off the base very much because he did not have a car and
the base is in the middle of nowhere
He had a cell phone while he was there that allowed him to stay in contact with
others back home (17:14)
o There was a building in each part of the base that had free internet
In Boot Camp they tried to disconnect the soldiers from the world (17:31)
o He received one phone call in Boot Camp
Active Duty – Part I - MEU/Pacific Cruise – (17:49)
His first deployment was on a MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) (17:54)
o It is virtually a show of strength to the world if something happens they
are right there to take care of it (17:58)
�
o He went to Japan, South Korea, Philippines, Thailand, and Australia
They took unit transports to the different locations
They flew on a 747 to Okinawa (18:29)
o The ship that he took was an LPD-9 (18:37)
The backs open up and they let the amphibious vehicles out
He started out of South Korea
In most of the countries that they went to they trained with the actual armies of
those countries (19:00)
o They did house room clearing
o He got he impression that the South Koreans had tight restrictions on what
they could and could not do (19:23)
They had nets on their guns that collected the brass after they shot
He heard that they had a high suicide rate (19:36)
The Marines are fed by eating MRE’s (Meals Ready to Eat) (20:01)
o They come in little brown bags
o Some of them are good but some of them are nasty (20:06)
o When they were on the ships they ate very well – they ate Navy food
After Korea, he went to the Philippines, Australia, and Thailand (20:24)
o They did not get a good reception when they went to Australia (20:33)
o There were girls there that were trying to make fun of the Americans
accents
It was funny to the soldiers even though the girls did not mean for
it to be funny (20:44)
o The Philippines was the most receptive of the countries they went to
When they go to shore they are given the normal rules – “if you’re gonna drink,
don’t get stupid.” (21:07)
o Incidents in other countries are difficult to deal with
o Alcohol was usually involved in the misbehaving of soldiers (21:23)
Usually the soldiers did alright
o He stayed away from the drinking for the most part (21:37)
Having gone to a Baptist school helped him in the military (21:42)
o It gave him a good foundation to stick to
o He met a couple of married men in the service that wanted to remain
faithful so he hung out with them (21:48)
They usually got a couple of days in each country to go and hang out (22:12)
o They had to stay in groups of no less than four in case they got in trouble
or got lost
The cruising lasts for about eight months (22:37)
Day to day life on ship did not have much for Marines to do
o The higher-ups would get made at them for being lazy and sleeping all day
(22:56)
They made it mandatory that they got out of bed
The Navy men had to work and the Marines were in there way
(23:10)
They then stayed in their beds all day to stay out of the
Navy’s way
�
The Senior Battalion Commander and Sergeant Major were probably in their 50’s
(23:38)
o The Company Commander was probably 30 years old and the Platoon
Commander was probably 24 or 25 years old (23:52)
o All of the Officers had college degrees (24:04)
He had a sense that promotion was fairly slow
o It was dependent on what job the soldier has
o The military did not need a lot of promotions for infantry soldiers (24:33)
The soldiers that had been in Iraq did not talk about it very much (24:47)
o By that time Iraq had slowed down quite a bit
There were some of his seniors that had been in Fallujah, Iraq in the deployment
before the major deployments (25:12)
At this point he never expected his military experience to get bad
o He figured that he may have to go to Afghanistan but never thought it
would get too bad (25:43)
He then returned to the United States from his cruise in August of 2009
At this stage he was figuring that a four year stint would probably make him go
on two different deployments (26:43)
o He was thinking that he would not reenlist
o He had been open to the idea of staying in for longer (27:01)
When he was in his return, he was in the middle of seniority – he was more senior
than the new guys but less senior than the higher ups
Active Duty – Part II – Camp Leatherneck/Sangin/IED – (28:00)
He stayed at Camp Pendleton for roughly one year (28:03)
In January of 2010, they went to Bridgeport, California for mountain warfare
training (28:10)
o The first week they were there it snowed 6-10 feet
They would train in different extremes – they would go to the dessert in the
summer for training (28:20)
In the process of all of his training he received amphibious landing training
(28:37)
o They would get on an amphibious assault vehicle and would shoot off of
the back of a ship
He learned that he was going to go to Afghanistan three months before they were
going to leave (29:17)
o They were all thinking that it was not going to be fun but more exciting
than what they had been doing (29:30)
o Once it gets closer to it they hear about what is going on where they are
going
They did not receive much specialized training for Afghanistan before they left
(29:51)
Most of the training they did before they went they did not use because they did
not know what to expect in Afghanistan
o The training they had was based more on Iraq than Afghanistan (30:12)
�
o Where they were in Afghanistan they had to walk in single file lines
because of IED’s (Improvised Explosive Device) (30:25)
Typically soldiers will not walk in single file line in case the
enemy has a machine gun – they could mow down all of the
soldiers
When the time comes to leave, they flew on a plane to Maine and then to
Kurdistan (30:51)
o They stayed at an Air Force Base in Kurdistan for a couple of nights
before flying in to Camp Leatherneck, Afghanistan
They stayed in Camp Leatherneck for a week while they were briefed (31:13)
o They then flew in to Sangin, Afghanistan where they took over (31:19)
They were in the Helmand Province (31:32)
His first impression is that everything is made of dirt and the people are dirty
There was a river that ran right next to the town that was green on both sides –
there were pomegranate trees and other vegetation (32:01)
Across from the main road there was just a desert where nothing grew
o They were in the desert part for the majority of the time (32:25)
The guys that they were taking over for told them that they should not go for the
Taliban flags, do not go in to abandoned compounds, and follow in the footsteps
of the soldier in front of you (32:40)
The properties in Sangin had twelve foot high mud walls surrounding their land
with a compound on the inside (33:17)
o They had outhouses
o Their own property was enclosed in the walls (33:36)
o The compounds often shared the same walls
There were narrow streets and allies (33:58)
He was a part of Lima Company (34:16)
o Their area of operations was to the south of the city
o The different companies split up to the different parts of the town (34:26)
It was a big town
Their basic mission was to cut off supply routes and kill the Taliban (34:39)
He was not sure how the Taliban moved supplies around
o They would do vehicle and personnel checks
o They had rules of engagement that were pretty relaxed at the beginning
(35:03)
Anyone that had a walkie talkie or a cell phone could be shot
(35:09)
The local population was scared of the American soldiers (35:15)
o They were once told that they believed they were going to kidnap the
women and children and cut their heads off
o One lady told them that the Taliban was only in her town because the
Americans were. If the Americans would leave, the Taliban would leave
as well (35:31)
o Little kids would throw rocks at them when they would drive by
Each company was broken down into four platoons (35:59)
o There were three patrol bases where the platoons would split up
�
o From each patrol base, one squad would be sent out each day (36:13)
o There were typically 12-15 men in each squad
They would typically go out and patrol – they found a lot of IED’s
(36:31)
They found a lot of weapons caches (36:37)
The IED’s were found by either seeing them with their eyes or by metal detectors
(36:50)
o IED’s are made of plastic jugs with chemicals, a lamp cord, 3 9 volt
batteries to complete the circuit, and a pressure plate made of wood
o The metal detectors could only pick up on the batteries (37:18)
They were very careful with any unsettled dirt
Each patrol was led by an engineer with a valence (metal detector) (37:53)
There was one day when they only moved 50 feet and it took them two hours to
clear the area (37:58)
Clearing out IED’s was very slow
When they find the IED they call up the EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal)
(38:10)
o They drive up in their truck and dig at the IED to see if it is – if it is they
blow it up (38:20)
o The EOD were awesome at their job
o There was one patrol where the EOD helped them with sixteen IED’s
(38:52)
The patrol bases were typically abandoned buildings
o Their patrol base was a cement building – they would joke that a drug lord
had owned it (39:14)
o They would put sandbags all around the top of the building
He started to run into trouble about a week after he was there (39:56)
o The first day there was a three hour long gun fight
It was kind of fun because no one got hit (40:06)
It was like “all guns blazin”
o They were up on a hill being shot at (40:32)
o They were only 200 feet away from their patrol base
o They called in an A10 Warthog to go in and unload their main firepower
(40:50)
The A10 Warthog worked
They wanted to hide after that (41:11)
After the first firefight, the enemy got the idea that it was not a good idea to fight
them (41:19)
o The Americans had way more firepower than the enemy could imagine
o The enemy would sometimes take a couple of pot shots but that was about
all (41:31)
The biggest threat was the IED’s (41:39)
The IED’s were typically just the pressure plates
o There were sometimes some manually triggered IED’s (41:59)
They came across a lot of the abandoned manual IED’s
�
The next day after the first firefight was when they discovered an IED that was
very close to them
o An Afghani soldier stepped on an IED and blew it up (43:07)
o The dust from the IED takes roughly 2-3 minutes before it clears
o They could hear screaming in English (43:27)
Their lieutenant had been hit as well
o They saw the Afghani soldier rolling around and yelling (43:37)
He bled out in front of them (43:44)
After the IED exploded, no one really wanted to walk around anymore
o They had to get to the body and take care of it
o It took a while because they were all trying to be very careful (44:03)
o A helicopter came and took the body and the American to a hospital
(44:17)
They were supposed to take the Afghans on every patrol so that they could train
and learn how to do everything on their own (44:30)
o He does not see that every happening
They would never lead the patrol and would wait for the
Americans to lead (44:36)
o The Afghans were not any better than the Americans at spotting IED’s
Typically, when an IED would be spotted, the Afghan soldiers
would sit on the ground with their gun over their laps (44:51)
Active Duty – Part III – Patrols/Taliban Flags/ Weapon Caches – (45:01)
There was at least one interpreter on every patrol (45:07)
o The interpreters were Afghans
o The Americans liked the interpreters because they spoke English and
would go out without guns (45:31)
Most of the interpreters wanted to eventually go to America (44:44)
They were primarily recruited by the government to work as
interpreters
It was very dangerous working with the Afghan soldiers (46:26)
o One of his best friends was blown up when they were going down an alley
way and one of the Afghani soldiers went off on his own and stepped on
an IED
o The enemy typically fires at the Americans when the bombs go off
because it is very hard to see anything (47:08)
He was deployed in Afghanistan for seven months
o In that time he carried an M249 saw when he was there (47:46)
He kept a diary for a large portion of the time that he was there (47:52)
Usually the rooftops of the compounds did not have walls – everyone was able to
see them but they could hardly see anything (48:18)
When they were on the ground they could only see 15-20 feet away because of
the walls
When they were patrolling and had to go into a compound they would typically
have the interpreter knock on the door and ask to let the Americans in (48:53)
�
o If the compound was not occupied, they would rarely go through the
doorway
One of his other best friends was blown up and killed because he
walked in an empty doorway that had an IED on the other side
(49:14)
o They would take ladders and go over the wall
o They eventually just started blowing holes in the sides of walls (49:29)
It made a lot of the Afghans upset
About three months in, his unit moved farther into the country so that they could
secure the whole area (50:04)
o They had to make their own new patrol base (50:16)
There were a lot of sandbags to be filled
The men in his squad were mostly kids (50:35)
He has one friend from Hawaii that he still talks to
One of his friends that stepped on an IED was from Minnesota (51:03)
He also maintains contact with many of the guys out in California (51:11)
They were not supposed to get “buddy buddy” with the sergeants because they
were higher ups (51:30)
o He liked most of them and did not agree with the decisions of some of
them
o One of the sergeants was a short guy and felt like he owed someone
something
His mindset was that since he had been in Iraq he wanted to do a
lot of the things that were not supposed to be done in Afghanistan
(52:12)
He wanted to get the Taliban flags, find IED’s, etc.
He was only put in charge of them because he was a higher rank
than them (52:27)
He was the squad leader
The Taliban flags were typically in abandoned compounds that have IED’s
planted inside (52:46)
o Their mindset is that the Americans will want to go get the flags. That is
why they booby trap the building that they are in (52:59)
o They eventually learned to not go and get the flags (53:08)
The weapons caches were also in abandoned compounds (53:27)
o They would sometimes get tipped off on where to look for them
o There was a big tower with a camera on top where they could look for
hostile movement
o One time they saw a man with a long barreled weapon that he should not
have
They called it in and had him “blown to pieces” (53:59)
o Sometimes they would see people moving in and out of abandoned
compounds – they would then have to go and check it out (54:08)
The rules of engagement changed over time
o When they arrived there was hardly anyone traveling the streets (54:27)
Near the end there were families going down the streets
�
o On some level, the American presence was working (54:45)
The Afghani’s probably felt safe because there were Americans
everywhere with guns
o Toward the end there was a lot less gunfights (55:03)
The trucks and mine rollers that they would use were essentially big trucks
(55:30)
o Most of them have a v-shaped hole
o The humvees are being used less because of their flat bottoms (55:44)
o They would sometimes use an MRAP (Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected)
truck (55:55)
o The mine plows were extensions of the truck that had solid rubber tires
with weights on top that will set off the IED before it gets under the truck
(56:28)
When driving around on the mine plow he had a lot of problems with the tires
A typical day when not on patrol was being put on post (57:45)
o If he was not on post he would be on an unloading party – they would
unload water bottles, food, or filling sandbags
Active Duty – Part IV – Miscellaneous Info./Last Experiences in Afghanistan –
(58:13)
He had more down time at the beginning than at the end (58:19)
When someone in the unit would get hit and taken out, the rest of the men stayed
back and continued fighting (58:36)
o They would always have to push through it
In the beginning they did not patrol as much because of the IED threat (58:55)
o The would have spades tournaments
It was typically too cold to take showers – they would sometimes take solar
showers but it was still often too cold (59:32)
o It was three months before he got his first running water shower
o The soldiers would have to put the same dirty clothes back on (59:51)
They were expected to shave and keep their hair short (01:00:00)
o They had generators that were brought in
At first they could only shave
o The generators had outlets where they could plug in and shave their hair
(01:00:22)
The seven months that he was in Afghanistan was spent with the same group
o After guys were killed or hurt they would receive combat replacements
(01:00:45)
For a while they liked to believe that they were the best squad
o There was not much of a difference between the units (01:01:44)
The night vision goggles were sometimes beneficial
o He had a pair that was blurry and he could not fix it (01:02:06)
o He had another pair that would randomly shut off
If a soldier received a good pair, he could see fine (01:02:17)
o There has to be a little bit of light for them to work well
�
The larger strategy against the Taliban was working to some degree (01:03:01)
Once the Americans got into the trucks, they would sometimes still have the
Afghans alongside them
o When they were on the patrols, the Afghani soldiers would remain with
them (01:03:22)
They were not really able to see improvement with the Afghani
soldiers when they were on patrols
He rarely had to deal with the Afghani soldiers
o One of his friends had a Star of David tattoo – when he took his shirt off
an Afghani soldier pointed his rifle at him (01:03:55)
There were only eight Americans and twenty Afghani soldiers
o Two of his friends were murdered by Afghanis (01:04:17)
He never saw any suicide bombers
o He would see them set off bombs and then run away (01:04:36)
o They never wanted to become complacent and believe that there were not
suicide bombers so they still checked everyone (01:04:52)
When they had the generator with electrical outlets they would charge their iPods
or other devices
o One time they all gathered around an iPod and watched Aladdin
(01:05:32)
o There was one guy that had a laptop and care packages would sometimes
have DVDs in them (01:05:44)
He was able to stay in communication with his family roughly once every month
o The married men usually had first dibs
o There was a seventeen hour time difference between Afghanistan and
Michigan (01:06:13)
The best time to call was in the middle of the night in Afghanistan
because it was the middle of the day in Michigan (01:06:23)
o He got care packages – he had requested Monster drinks and Swedish Fish
(01:07:02)
o They would get so much candy that they did not know what to do with it
They would give some out to the kids when they would go out on
patrol (01:07:25)
The kids would like the soldiers when they were giving them
things
When he went into Afghanistan he did not think about how long his deployment
was going to last (01:08:03)
o He was more worried about knowing if he was going to die, etc.
When he was in Afghanistan he knew a month or two ahead of time that he was
going to be leaving
o They would do something called Ripping (Relieving In Place) (01:08:43)
o They would train the replacements by going on patrols with them
o The Afghanis knew that they were sending replacements and that “new
blood was coming in” (01:08:53)
The second patrol that they were on with the new guys an engineer stepped on a
bomb and lost both of his legs
�
o He later found out later that one of the other engineers in the unit was
killed and the other had his leg blown off (01:09:19)
Over the course of his time there, there were twenty-five that were killed and
almost two hundred wounded – there were only eight hundred soldiers there on
patrols
The most that any soldier ever had to use was a tourniquet (01:10:16)
o The doctors would use IVs to keep the soldiers out of shock
There were times when soldiers would step on bombs that were only a couple feet
away from him (01:10:37)
o There were a couple of times where he was almost shot
o After one explosion his nose started bleeding (01:11:06)
o He was never hit by shrapnel
o One time he had to pick flesh of other soldiers off of his neck (01:11:20)
He had, by that time, decided that four years in the military was enough
He returned to America in April or May and was discharged in August (01:11:47)
Once he was back from Afghanistan he had to turn in his gear, make sure his
medical information is up to date, took classes, etc.
The military gave TAP (Transition Assistance Program) classes to soldiers that
were about to head home (01:12:39)
o He cannot remember if anything that they taught him was useful
o The courses were extremely boring
He believes that if he would have gone straight to college he would not have done
nearly as well as he is (01:13:27)
o He probably would not have gone very far because he was a horrible
student
o Problems in America are not as big as they seemed before his military
experience
His first class was three days after returning from the Marine Corps. (01:14:19)
o It was nice because no one was yelling at him and no one was in his face
about anything
o Whenever he walks across the GVSU bridge he imagines someone
grabbing a kid and throwing them off (01:15:02)
He studies Criminal Justice at Grand Valley State University
All of his checkups at the VA (Veteran’s Association) are free
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Anderson, Nicholas "Nick" (Interview outline and video), 2013
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Anderson, Nicholas
Description
An account of the resource
Nick Anderson was born in Minnesota in 1989 and moved to Grand Haven, Michigan three years later. He had given thought to joining the military before 9/11 and, during his senior year of high school, decided that he wanted to be a Marine. Nick swore into the military in Lansing, Michigan and then went to San Diego, California for Basic Training. He was then sent to Camp Pendleton, California for Infantry Training. His first deployment was on an MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) until he returned to America for Mountain Warfare Training. Nick was then deployed to Afghanistan and landed at Camp Leatherneck. His unit served in Sangin where there was a constant threat of IED's. He remembers his experiences on patrols and the routines of finding abandoned compounds.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
United States. Marine Corps
Language
A language of the resource
eng
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Text
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
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Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Sarah Anderson
Interview Length: (1:13.28)
Interviewed by: Dr. James Smither
Transcribed by: Chloe Dingens
Interviewer: This interview is a joint production between the Grand Valley State Veterans
History Project and the WKTV Voices. We are talking today with Sarah Anderson, a
Marine Corps veteran who lives in Grand Haven, Michigan and the interviewer is James
Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. Okay so Sarah,
begin with some background on yourself and to start with where and when were you born?
I was born in Muskegon, Michigan I… in 19... I’m sorry I’m a little nervous now.
Interviewer: That’s okay!
Alright I was born in Muskegon, Michigan I was born and raised in, on the west side of
Michigan 1990.
Interviewer: Okay, alright and what was your family doing for a living when you were
growing up?
My dad is a mechanical engineer, my mom was a stay-at-home mom. I have an older brother, a
little sister, and a little brother so we kind of all just kind of grew up, I grew up in the same house
I did for like 18 years of my life and stayed on the same spot.
Interviewer: Okay, alright and then when did you graduate from high school?
I graduated from Freedom Baptist High School in 2009 and that school’s in Hudsonville, it no
longer exists right now but…
Interviewer: Okay, alright so you went there and then what did you do after high school?
I immediately joined the Marine Corps.
�(1.44)
Interviewer: Alright, now what motivated that?
So, in high school I was an athlete and I was not a bad student, but I did not like sitting around
and just, I needed to expend energy somehow and so I, my outlet was sports. And the thought of
going to college immediately for me, I was a restless spirit so that kind of wasn't really like as
exciting to me as it was for a lot of my peers at the time. My brother joined the Marine Corps in
2007 and when I was a sophomore in high school, I attended his graduation up from boot camp
from Marine Corps Recruiting station like Marine Corps Recruit Depot there we go. Recruit
Depot San Diego and I just saw like the- the transformation in him. He was not a very good
student, and then he just had, was filled with all this pride at would he had accomplished, and the
Marine Corps just seemed like very attractive to me at that time. It was just an outlet of just
doing something, filling a purpose, or a mission, or a duty and I just, I don't know I just wanted
that confidence. I envied it and when it was my time to decide I talked to a recruiter and decided
that that's the challenge I wanted to take on.
(2.56)
Interviewer: Okay now before we continue with the story there was one thing, another
component I wanted to add up, add in there; you were old enough to remember 9/11.
Yes.
Interviewer: And do you remember where you were and what happened that day?
September 11, 2001 I was in fifth grade. Just came in from recess and I remember my teacher
just had this like really sad look on her face and she turned on the radio and she said, “I need you
all to sit down and be quiet.” And a bunch of rowdy kids were like some, we knew something
was serious going on and we just listened. I didn't know what the World Trade Center was, like I
�didn't know anything about New York other than you know Empire State Building and Lady
Liberty, the Statue of Liberty. So, I learned real quick what the World Trade Center was the;
Twin Towers and I didn't know exactly, it was just the radio so I didn't see any picture but they
let us off of school early. All our parents came to pick us up, came home and just saw the news
and I saw the towers fall on TV.
(3.54)
Interviewer: Alright and just kind of awareness of that, I mean does that in any way kind
of shape your later decision to go in the service? Or was your decision really just a personal
one?
I think it shaped my decision for sure, it was a personal one but the momentum of the patriotism
I think that I experienced as a child, like America's one of those unique countries that like it's
very patriotic very proud of where we come from, and I mean our country has its issues but
overall there is a unifying aspect of being an American. And around September 11th timeframe
that even more so, we were all unified in our grief and in our passion to you know stay together
and be strong. So, that impacted me as a child and when I saw my brother graduate from boot
camp I, kind of like reaffirmed me and my personal decision too. It’s like this will be good for
me and you know I really want to see like all different sides of America, and including the
military, and the challenge really attracted me too. Like they, the other branches, the Marine
Corps said, “hey, we’re the hardest one, if you can hack it, you can do it.” And I'm like, I'm
gonna hack it, I can do it. It was just a really fun challenge to take on.
(5.11)
�Interviewer: Alright now when you were talking to the Marine Corps recruiter then, did
you have any opportunity to- to choose types of training to get? Or were they offering you
any particular programs? Or was it just go in and see where we put you?
So, I did get to choose my MOS which is a military occupational specialty like my job in the
military. So, males and females in the Marine Corps they get trained equally, trained the same.
There's- there's different standards sometimes when it comes to PT like run times, but every PT
is the same and every training is the same. There is no difference and so when- when you join the
Marine Corps, you’re a Marine first and then you become your job as well. So, boot camp- boot
camp was entirely like just breaking you down and training you to be a Marine.
Interviewer: Okay well what- what MOS did you choose?
I chose to be a public affairs specialist, at the time it was called combat correspondent public
affairs specialist, now it is strategic communications and mass communicator. Like a lot of my
MOS’ changed a little bit since I've left, I guess, we've combined the combat camera and public
affairs into the same MOS so everyone's cross-training and they're doing some awesome stuff
right now.
(6.27)
Interviewer: Alright so let's go back to boot camp, so where do you go for boot camp?
I went to Parris Island, South Carolina that is the only place females are, well as of now are
permitted to go to boot camp mostly because there aren’t a lot of females who take up that
challenge so. The, financially that's just like the best place to go. It's definitely not a
discriminatory thing I don’t want to say that.
Interviewer: There are only two bases that- that train Marines at all so it's one or the other,
and so they took Parris Island. Okay, now what time of year do you arrive there?
�I arrived in August 2009, so it was just the tail end of the summer and it was hot, and it was I just
remember feeling like I was gonna die. I've never felt anything that hot before, just the swampy
blistering heat, it was awful. And then when I graduated in November it was snowing so, we did
the crucible in the snow. It was the weirdest time of the year to go.
Interviewer: Okay now what sort of reception do you get when you arrive at boot camp?
(7.29)
The reception to boot camp, it is not an easy one. It is the first experience you have with a drill
instructor. You pull up at night, or at least I pulled up at night on a bus. And a drill instructor
comes in, shots at you, tells you what exactly to do, follow exactly- exactly everything they say
to the letter, and you rush out step on some yellow footprints, get yelled at some more, about like
how to enter the hatches, how to get started in boot camp, and then you go from there.
Interviewer: How to enter the hatches?
So, or like how to like what hatches to enter if you will. We, there's a sign in Parris Island above
the doors that say, this really inspirational quote that's not coming to mind right now, I can look
it up but it's like “through these hatches are those who train to be the most… America’s fighting
force…” or something. I’m sorry I totally just slaughtered that.
Interviewer: That’s okay, but a hatch is like a door, right?
So, the Marine Corps uses Navy terms.
Interviewer: Yes.
(8.31)
Because we're a department of the Navy so, yeah through, we use hatches or door, portholes,
windows, deck is the floor. And in bootcamp it's like we have to be taught a new language and
these drill instructors are even more frustrating because they just passed an entire cycle of
�Marines that just graduated boot camp who were, you know ready to be Marines going back to
people who have to be taught, “this is a deck. This is a hatch,” and it was just kind of, I'm sure it
was entertaining for them or infuriating I don't know but.
Interviewer: Okay now when your group, when you come in out of the bus was the bus
load all women or was it a mix of men and women?
The bus load was a mix of men and women.
Interviewer: Okay so that initial thing, they’re just bringing you all in. Then did they
separate you out into different companies with women's training different/ separately from
men or how do they arrange that?
For processing we're kind of mixed because, you know we're just getting all separated. Like the
phone calls home and everything, but then they eventually like separate us males and female,
yeah that's just part of it.
(9.31)
Interviewer: Okay, alright and then sort of what's kind of the sequence of events in boot
camp? What are you doing first, what do you do later?
At the time there's three cycles, now I believe there's four but at the time there's three cycles.
And in cycle number one is just kind of processing, getting your uniforms, getting you’re your
boots learning how to do basic things like make a rack and fold a towel and be comfortable being
around, I was in a squad bay, with 80 women. A squad bay is a big room full of bunk beds. Like
no privacy whatsoever our bathroom doors were sawed off we weren't allowed to have that, even
that kind of privacy. So, we had three round, rounded showerheads to share between 80 women
and we only had like about a minute each to shower all at once. So, we had to figure it out, and
so, it was just kind of getting comfortable. I'd never touched a weapon before, we got issued
�rifles and like what is this? I yeah and I it didn't grow up with guns or weapons or anything. So,
just kind of learning how to do my hair; the Marine Corps is pretty strict hair standards when it
comes to pull your hair back in a bun, no fly always. Learning the language, learning the basic
rules, learning even the basic core values and everything. It’s just kind of what you do in the first
phase; learning how to march like it's not like simple like- like you think marching in the movies,
it's like in sync it's an in-sync motion with your squad and your team so. Second phase is honing
more combat skills and rifle range, so you like learn how to shoot, you learn how to move
together as a team, more drilling obviously you learn how to march even better. And learn, yeah,
learned how to patrol and just kind of basic- basic combat maneuvers.
Interviewer: Do you get hand-to-hand combat stuff too?
We do, we get something we call MCMAP it's Marine Corps Martial Arts Program. It's
affectionately known called McNinja, yeah just basic self-defense technique. Basics on, how to
punch, how to block, how to maneuver and in boot camp you just get the basic level through
your Marine Corps career you can progress in... we have a belt system like a lot of martial arts
programs do but it's tan belt in boot camp and just basic leg sweeps and stuff like that. So…
(11.59)
Interviewer: How to knock down someone who's bigger than you were.
Yes absolutely, and which actually was kind of nice because I was a small eighteen-year-old
female at the time, so it was just nice to know how to do small joint manipulation or basic selfdefenses. It was never intro; I was never introduced to anything combat related. So, that was
second phase and then third phase we continue all of that into a culminating event, we learned
pugil sticks, we continued MCMAP, we should be nearly experts at drill at this point when it
comes, like marching and formations and stuff so we do that competition. We do, you know…
�what else do we do? Well basically it's just honing those skills, more physical training PT and to
accommodating event which we just called The Crucible which is an event where we I believe
we did a 9-mile hike. It was three days of kind of surviving as a team, doing team building
activities and exercises, and combat techniques like crawling under barbed wire, and running up
range, and shooting, and like it just it was just a lot of culminating things that we just learned the
entire time there. The entire 13 weeks really, so it was an exhausting three days and we were
given a limited number of MREs which are like military rations to kind of like, so we could
teach ourselves how to like pace ourselves when it comes to if you have this much food like this
is how you survive off of this much, you don't eat it all at once or you're gonna starve kind of
thing. At the very end we're all beaten, exhausted, dirty, and tired and we're all marching back
together, and we're all like singing and- and chanting cadence and getting motivated because at
the very end we line up. Barely standing because we’re exhausted to be given our Eagle of an
Anchor which signifies you have earned the title of marine.
(14.06)
Interviewer: Okay now go- go back to the beginning of things in this first- first few weeks.
How easy or hard was it for you to adjust to life in the Marine Corps?
Everyone adjust differently and I think basically it depends on personality and how you grew up.
I've seen girls who went to boot camp got screamed at, it didn’t faze them because they've been
screamed at all their lives. Me, I grew up in a very Christian religious Bible Belt of Michigan it's
what kind of the reputation is. So, it was a very conservative area and I was- I was never put
down as for being a female or anything but it was just kind of like a cultural thing that you just
get assumed that you're gonna be a wife and a mom one day, and you don't go and join the
military because that's just not culturally what we do. And not anyone looked down on me I'm
�not trying to bash my- the way I grew up it was, I grew up very well I was very blessed. But it
was it was a very different thing for me, especially in the Christian school I went to that like
women don’t, like ‘what? Why?’ kind of thing. And I, when I got to an area where people from
all different backgrounds and all different walks of life where all in one room getting screamed at
by these women that I thought like where demon possessed at the time. I don't know I was just
an ignorant 18-year-old. I thought it was the hardest thing at the time that I had ever been
through. And mentally I had to adjust and emotionally I had to adjust, and it was just… I didn't
really know what I was getting into. At first it was difficult but then there's just something in you
that clicks, that is like I can do this, like I want this. If you want it bad enough, you're gonna
complete it, you're gonna overcome it and I think that's accredited, I think to some of my drill
instructors too. Not only like beat like discipline in me, but like the confidence as well and at the
time I hated everything about them but you know, I there is one drill instructor in particular that I
modeled my entire leadership style after the next eight years of my life.
(16.25)
Interviewer: Okay, what was it about how she did things that stuck with you?
So, this drill instructor, her name was Sergeant Feight all my drill instructors were sergeants
which is kind of uncommon in the drill field or in boot camp environment. Usually if staff
sergeants or gunnery sergeants like high-ranking but my drill team was all sergeants and
Sergeant Feight she was- she was very like just the way she carried herself. She was our senior
drill instructor so her role on the drill team was to kind of be available, be strict, and be
disciplinarian, but be also available for us. Because you know if something is wrong and we're
too afraid to tell the drill instructors somebody needs to know and like she’s, so she made herself
in her leadership role that was available to us. There was one time like she, I don't know it's just
�the- the confidence she had in herself and the way she carried herself was really inspiring to me.
There was one time a male drill instructor… a male drill instructor insulted one of our recruits on
the rifle range, because we trained at the guys during that week. And our senior drill instructor
Sergeant Feight found out about it and I don't think her intention was to shame him in front of
everyone, but she did it in a way that as a no BS mentality. It was an example to all the girls, all
80 women in my platoon to not take that just because like it doesn't matter what rank, doesn't
matter what status you are, who you are, you like you- you have the confidence, you earn you’re
earning this, you're working on it you don't get to take that, and she stood up for us but also made
herself an example of how to stand up for yourself, and like do not, like don't- don't take that
basically and come to find out the next eight years of my life dealt with that a lot. And it just I
don't know I really appreciated her example and when I became a sergeant, I wanted to treat my
junior Marines in a way that was fair, inspirational, and in a way that could build their
confidence.
Interviewer: Right, now when you and did your brother tell you anything about what to
expect in boot camp?
(18.59)
I don't know if I really want this part on here but me my brother and I don't really get along that
well. So, like we have a relationship if you will, but he didn’t really kind of prepare me very
well.
Interviewer: So basic question, so it wasn't they're gonna do X Y & Z and this is why
they're doing it?
Yeah so, my brother was a relatively new Marine when I enlisted so he was still trying to find his
feet in the Marine Corps.
�Interviewer: Right.
So, I didn't really understand a lot other than they might yell at me, or not might, they will yell at
me. But I didn't realize what exactly was going to happen and so when I enlisted my recruiter
didn't really know much about the roles female Marines play. I just assumed they were gonna be
equally treated which, they were, like they- they same PT schedule standards same training and
everything. But I mean we had a little difference when it comes to standards, like when it comes
to PT fitness test.
Interviewer: Right.
If you will, but he didn't really know much at all, so I had to figure a lot of it out by myself.
(20.15)
Interviewer: Alright so- so okay now were there other women you were training with who
when in the end couldn't take it?
Yes.
Interviewer: Okay what proportion do you think?
I think I graduated with 40.
Interviewer: That was out of 80?
Yeah.
Interviewer: Now where some of those people gonna be recycling and coming through
again?
Some were hurt, so some women dropped out of boot camp because they were injured, or they
were recycled to another platoon because they were injured and needed to recover.
Interviewer: Right.
That- that, that's very common and so I'm not saying they failed or couldn't hack it just...
�Interviewer: Oh yeah no, it happens to men too yeah.
But a lot of women just got there and realized this is not for me and those women are weeded out
real quick. You will not survive boot camp unless you want to survive boot camp and the fastest
way out of boot camp with an honorable dis… or the fastest way out of boot camp is to get
through it.
(21.04)
Interviewer: Alright now was there a point in boot camp when you figured out what it was
that they were doing, or did that only really occur to you after you were done?
It kind of it occurred to me after I was done, how effective the training was or what the training
actually did to me. At the time like I- I knew that oh they're trying to discipline us and stuff but it
was just- it was just like a different environment than I was used to so I didn't really comprehend
like what was going on and how the training was breaking me down and building me back up.
Interviewer: Okay now physically were you in good enough shape to handle all the stuff
they had you do?
Physically I yes, I was an athlete in high school, so I just transitioned right into it. I it was not…
so I've never been a phenomenal runner but I can run, and I can do push-ups and, you know at
the time I was really nervous because you know it's the Marine Corps and but they make the
training in a way that starts you from the beginning. So, not everyone was where I was
physically because I was an athlete, not everyone was an athlete, so they keep that in mind. They
start everyone off at the same level. So, yeah while I was nervous like I had other reasons to be
nervous other than physical training but they- they are realistic about training in my opinion or
were at the time.
�Interviewer: Alright anything else about those first 13 weeks that kind of stands out in your
memory? There doesn't have to be.
(22.48)
There are a few, I guess it's just, it’s just a long time ago so- so there was this one time on the
rifle range and speaking about women getting weeded out. There's this one time on the rifle
range that there was this girl who intentionally kept missing because she wanted out of boot
camp and she didn't like it, and she made it through first phase, and I remember thinking it might
have been me being naive. But I'm like well why would you sign up? And I, why don't you want
this? I want this, like this is just a foreign concept to me and… but yeah if the girls who wanted
out found a way. And… but I didn't, I wanted to complete it and like there's no challenge that
I've ever not really given my whole heart into. Whether I completed it or not, but I was not gonna
not complete boot camp, and I think receiving the Eagle of an Anchor at the end was one of the
proudest moments in my life, if not the proudest. And it sets the tone for every marine going into
the Marine Corps, every Marine receives an Eagle of an Anchor, everyone gets it pressed into
their palm and everyone remembers that, what that feeling is like and that kind of unifies us
throughout like our service and whenever a Marine starts kind of losing their way another
Marine can be like, “hey do you remember that feeling? Do you remember what it was like? This
is why we act the way we act. This is why we hold on our courage and commitment in our hearts
is because of that moment; because we all felt it and we all felt that pride, and so you got to do
your duty the way that you're expected to. The way you committed to.” And yeah, it's just kind
of a unifying thing.
(24.33)
�Interviewer: Now once you complete those 13 weeks do you now go to a school for your
MOS or is there any additional training that everyone gets before that?
So, in the Marine Corps after boot camp we go to Marine Combat Training or for infantry guys
they go to infantry ITV (infantry training battalion.) So, as at the time females weren't allowed in
the infantry so all females went to Marine combat training and it wasn't just female exclusive it
was every Marine that was not signed up to be an infantryman.
Interviewer: Okay.
So, that's the only separation. Every Marine needs combat training. Infantry Marines go to
infantry training battalion because that's doubles as their job school.
Interviewer: Right.
And we just get the basic month of down-and-dirty, this is how we do things, this is how you
patrol, this is how you guard a tower, this is how you use a radio, this is how you treat you know
medical like I need this various medical, like an injury…
Interviewer: Wounds, injury.
Yeah wounds and so it was like down and dirty a lot of information packed into that month.
(25.42)
Interviewer: Okay and where did you do that?
North Carolina camp Johnson.
Interviewer: Okay is that part of Camp Lejeune?
It is within Camp Lejeune yes.
Interviewer: Okay, alright you get- you get that for a month and how did that go for you?
It was interesting it was my first time working with males and I mean it felt… I mean it's a tough
month they're hard on you. Like, but I was kind of like expecting that because boot camp was
�hard on us too. So, after boot camp you get 10 days leave and then you go to Marine Combat
Training and you learn more in depth about rifle training, about patrolling, about basic combat
techniques that expounded upon what you learned on in boot camp. And yeah, that’s all I
remember.
Interviewer: Okay, alright, so you kind of get that, so you've got that and then where do
you go next?
After Marine Combat Training you go to your MOS school or your military occupational
specialty school. I signed up for public affairs, so I went to Fort Meade, Maryland it's a joint
base. It was an army base, but it was joint schooling. So, I went to- I went to school with every
service Navy, Air Force, Army, Coast Guard even so did I forget one?
(27.04)
Interviewer: Well no because you are, Army, Navy, Air Force yeah- yeah Coast Guard,
yeah yes that's all. Okay now how was that experience different from your Marine Corps
training?
It was different because every branch is a different culture and I remember being really
motivated and really excited about being a Marine and you know just a little nineteen-year-old
me and so there was a lot of you know trash-talking between like all services because we were
all brand new and we all wanted to be like “yeah we're the best” kind of thing and that's just, it's
just how it was. And it was my first experience with that. It was actually really fun getting to
know other services, it wasn't just trash talk we actually built relationships and we learned things
about other services and other people our age who made different decisions and what services
they made, it was- it was a good experience. The schooling itself taught journalism, it was three
months I can’t remember if it was three or five months, but I think I was there for five months,
�but the school was three. They taught us basic photography, basic journalism, how to write
stories, how to interview people, how to record people for video interviews, down-and-dirty
journalism, multimedia journalism and that's what it was. And after I completed school, they
gave me orders to the Marine Corps Combat Center Twentynine Palms.
(28.27)
Interviewer: Okay, now at the school itself I mean did that work based off like a nine-tofive job as opposed to kind of other sorts of training that you had or were they still waking
you up in the middle of the night or was there still a military training aspect to the school
or was it now more professional?
The school were definitely was a more professional environment, but they were still military
training. We woke up super early to go run together or go PT together. We, the Marines all were
in one barracks type building we each got our own rooms, or we shared rooms with people but
we, it wasn't a squad-based setting anymore. But yeah no, we all woke up together well PT’d,
showered up, went to school together till 5 in the evening and then we had the evenings off.
Interviewer: Okay and what proportion of that group was female?
So, in my MOS, it was probably about 50/50. My MOS is pretty- pretty mixed-gender,
Interviewer: Right.
And the diversity is pretty good. The Marine Corps overall when I was in only 6% of the Marine
Corps was female so that is rare to see a 50/50 mix between female/ male.
(29.44)
Interviewer: Okay so now you head off to your first base and it's at Twentynine Palms,
California describe that place a little bit.
�So, the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center Twentynine Palms, California; well from a
Michigan girl, never really left Michigan other than the occasional family vacation. I’d never
been to the desert before and I heard stories, I heard stories that it was like the heat like the worst
base to go to and no Marine wants to get stationed in Twentynine Palms and I was like “oh no,” I
was like freaking out. Like my first duty station is in Twentynine Palms, well I kind of learned to
embrace the desert. The desert California’s beautiful and if you go in there with a mindset of “oh
I'm gonna have a terrible time,” you're gonna have a terrible time and I kind of learned that. It
took me a few months to adjust because I wasn't used to anything other than East Coast, but what
really kind of on my personal time attracted me to that area was Joshua Tree National Park; I
love climbing and hiking and it was just beautiful. The desert flowers in the spring it’s just, it
was- it was really great community, the actual base where I worked there's some really great
people, people who love the area and love the Marine Corps just kind of stick around and you
kind of get to know the culture of the base itself even though Marines are always transitioning in
and out, the culture of the area it's really a family type environment. The combat center was very
fast-paced, we had battalions it's- so the combat Center is really fast-paced we had it- it was a
transition base so before units went to Afghanistan or Iraq they would have to train in
Twentynine Palms, they would have to get desert warfare trainings so we had battalions coming
through all the time. It was like very fast we had deployments leaving and coming and buses
leaving and coming full of Marines all the time and I was a journalist; I was a photographer, but I
was stationed at headquarters battalion, so I wasn't allowed to deploy with them. And I think my
biggest frustration was building relationships with these guys, spending time with them in the
field, taking their picture, interviewing them, and watching them leave on buses, and watching
most of them come home seven months later and not all of them and that was, as a Marine who
�wanted to be there to document their stories and stuff it was it was frustrating that I couldn't go
with them.
(32.23)
Interviewer: Okay and then sort of what kind of group were you working with? Was there
a certain set of people you were normally with and how large was it or how many people
were you…?
You mean stationed in my section?
Interviewer: Yeah.
So, in headquarters’ battalion, it's kind of like, I used to say its kind of like the misfits of- that
run the base; we have, it’s a unique battalion because there's sections of people all in one
battalion. Then we have the supply section, we have the transportation section, we have motor
pool, we have the admin section, we have the journalists like that was us, there was combat
camera, there's just all like the, all a bunch of sections making up one battalion. So, whereas
normal battalions’ kind of interact all day or a lot and they get to know each other and what
companies and stuff, we were so separated, and we only got together during unit PTs or special
events. We tried but I mean you, so each section became very close and I had probably eight or
nine Marines in mine maybe ten at sometimes and we work at the base newspaper at the time,
before the base newspaper disappeared. So, every week we had to tell stories about what's going
on in the base and I'd take pictures of Marines in training. So, since there was so much transition
of battalions coming in before Afghanistan I would take a lot of like I'd go out to the field a lot
with them and just kind of document them before they head out, and kind of tell the story about
the training that they're being prepared for before they go over there. But yeah so it was- it was
�just cool, I got to know a lot of people in my own battalion only because my job required so
many stories to be put in the newspaper that I went out and like actively sought them out.
(34.08)
Interviewer: Alright and when you're, you want to interview people and so forth what kind
of responses did you get?
So, Marines are typically pretty private people, or not they don't… I don't know it some- some
Marines are really helpful, and some were like “I don't want to be in the media.” It was kind of
frustrating at times because I understood that, like absolutely we don't join the military for
recognition or fame or to have our face out there, but as they got to know me and like kind of
trusted that I can do my job well and will make them look good basically or will support them. A
lot of the pictures and videos I took were for the families and were for people back home it
wasn't necessarily for that Marine, it was to tell their story and well as some of them didn't want
their story being told, it was important to tell their story and that's kind of, yeah the angle I took
it from and they kind of understood that. So, yeah, I understood I, that some of them didn't want
their faces out there but you know I had to do my job, so I figured it out.
Interviewer: Alright and you kind of learned in a way sort of how to talk to them or
approach them, did you get a sense of how they're gonna respond as you're gonna… or
how to deal with people of different personalities and feel that out?
(35.39)
Absolutely, you know actually being a Marine Corps journalist instead of just a journalist
coming on a base really helped because we had that bond already, or that mutual understanding
of what being a Marine is and so like no one was like just outright disrespectful at least not to my
face about not wanting their you know their presence out there, because like we were both
�Marines; there was like that mutual respect there. So, as a journalist coming in not a lot of them,
or yeah most of them have never been in the military, don't know what the standards are: how
you conduct yourself professionally, how we hold each other accountable, and you know what
being a Marine actually means so.
Interviewer: Alright now would units coming back from Afghanistan or Iraq if there were
any at that point, did they go back through Twentynine Palms or?
Not every one of them, so say a unit deploys out of Camp Lejeune so they go to Twentynine
Palms to train, go back to Camp Lejeune and deploy from there but we had infantry battalions at
Twentynine Palms that were stationed there so they did go to the sandbox as they called it, they'd
go to Iraq or Afghanistan and they'd come back and just stay in Twentynine Palms because that's
where they lived.
(36.56)
Interviewer: Okay and then did you interview some of them after they're back or was that
not part of your job?
I did. I think most of the stories that were impactful were off the record though because of those
relationships built.
Interviewer: Yeah.
So, I wouldn't say that I wrote a lot of stories about you know that their personal experiences
other than the ones that kind of like “hey like this is what we did, this is just letting you know,
like this is what the Marines this is how the Marines are doing awesome things and just keeping
you informed.” But like when they came to a real like down and dirty stuff it was more important
to me to build relationships and be there, be available for those people to like talk in a trusting
environment without being like fear of on-the-record.
�Interviewer: Now on some level is that kind of part of what your job is or was that just
some way that you dealt with things yourself?
I think it's just being a Marine, you know there's a kind of a joke between all the branches that
the Marines of the brainwashed ones and you know the Marines are like a cult or, you know it's
probably true. I don't know we just have like a special understanding of what it's like to be a
Marine and we just have a lot of pride in who we are and I mean every service is respectable and
you- you're giving up your time and you're serving your country and stuff but you know as a
Marine I'm a little biased because like we have that understanding and it's- it's funny to you
know trash talk each other sometimes like I got some really good Airforce friends that just mess
with me all the time and I'm just like, “hey you know whatever you right we are a cult.”
(38.39)
Interviewer: Okay now how long were you based in Twentynine Palms?
I was in Twentynine Palms from ‘09 to ‘13 and then I was transferred to Marine Corps Base
Hawaii Kaneohe Bay in 2013 and then I stayed on island till 2016 but I transferred to Camp
Smith while on Island which is another base on Island.
Interviewer: Okay, now so you've got basically four years at Twentynine Palms. Did your
job change over that time or were there things about the environment that changed at all?
In Twentynine Palms no, I worked in a newspaper the entire time.
Interviewer: So, they still had a newspaper by the time you left?
Yeah and then when I transfer to Marine Corps Base Hawaii, they're just like on the tail end of
their newspaper so I kind of started working at their newspaper for a year but then there became
a huge social media focus. It was, in my job field it's different because communication overall
changes, and grows, and develops. I mean when I was a kid I had a, like we didn't have cell
�phones and then I had my first flip phone when I got my license but like barely; it was prepaid
minutes and now like I see you know nine year old’s having iPhones. It's just- it's just crazy how
technology and communication changes over time. So, for a very old school environment like the
Marine Corps that is very stuck in tradition it is really difficult to tear their newspapers away
from them and be like this is not how we communicate anymore, we communicate via social
media, through like online presence, through building relationships, having a continual presence.
And the Marine Corps actually is leading all the branches I would say in their social media
presence. The, their branding is amazing and how they've taken it but there's still like the oldschool mentality of a lot of the Marines to just kind of like, wait but we need our newspaper, and
I’m like it's not how people communicate anymore. So, it's- it's actually transitioning out and I
have loved that I've gotten to see the Marine Corps grow from one aspect to another.
(40:44)
Interviewer: Okay now how long was your original enlistment?
My original enlistment is four years.
Interviewer: Okay so at a certain point you decided to re-up then?
Yes.
Interviewer: To stay in there. So, when did you make that decision?
I was in Twentynine Palms and I was on my last year of enlistment and something hit me that,
I'm not ready to get out, like what am I gonna do go to college? Like and I’m obviously I'm just
going to college now, there's nothing wrong with going to college, but I just I wasn’t ready. I
was- I was disappointed because I worked so hard to be a Marine and I wanted to deploy and I
wanted to do all these amazing things and I, as much as I loved Twentynine Palms or grew to
love Twentynine Palms I never left it, I never did anything that I wanted to do so I- I realized
�that I got to reenlist because I got to see what else is out there in the Marine Corps like I love the
Marine Corps so maybe they'll deploy me next enlistment. But there was a time, yeah this is a
little more personal but I don't mind sharing it; so the Marine Corps is… attracts very ‘good old
boy’ type mentality like, country boy traditional and that very… attracts very progressive women
and those two cultures don't mix very well. So, a lot and I'm not speaking, I’m not speaking for
all individuals, every individual is different. But I'm just telling you from my experience how I
saw things. I know what I saw was a lot of men very hesitant, or still feeling very new that
there's female leadership above them and that was not an easy thing to maneuver through. I never
experienced sexism before, I never experienced a culture where sexual assault, I wouldn't say
they have a rape culture in the military I would say that it's a very real thing. And they, like they
do their best to train and inform and educate like I- I really think they try but it's a very real thing
and- and a culture like that, being thrown into a culture like that as a female just from a gender
perspective was not easy. I felt like I worked twice as hard for half the credit a lot. So, picking up
rank I was proud of myself but not everybody else was. So, having a culture like that there was,
when it came to reenlisting I was really thinking about getting out because it was kind of
exhausting to adjust to that but I had a Gunnery Sergeant who was, I was a corporal at the time
so I was an E-4, he was an E-7 a Gunnery Sergeant he told me that you know, “Anderson you
single-handedly changed my mind about female Marines, you are a good example and the Corps
would be losing a good Marine. Wouldn't it be worth it to reenlist and change one more mind?”
And I'm like that's it, I'm reenlisting, like I got to, that like if, that was just, that meant a lot to me
when he said that. And just you know there are stereotypes that are- that are ahead of you as a
female Marine and, or as I’m sure a female military in general. I can't speak for any other branch
but there’s stereotypes that you constantly have to battle and even if you never live up to one of
�them, you still have to battle it just because of how you're born. And so, when he encouraged me
like that and just kind of basically told me that I was breaking glass ceilings without even
knowing it. I was just like, yes let's do it like I’ll reenlist, and you know what I actually did, I
picked up rank I gained more confidence I got more leadership roles and I became an example
for, or I strove to become an example for other female Marines to the best of my ability at least.
(44.44)
Interviewer: Okay now when you reenlist do, they offer you a chance to- to pick your next
station or at least put in requests or how do you wind up in Hawaii?
So yeah when you reenlist the first time you get an incentive and my incentive was a deployable
unit in Hawaii so that's how I got Hawaii. They're like okay you were in the desert for four years,
I'm sure we can get you, we can you know pull some strings and get you a tropical island so that
was nice but when I got to the unit it transitioned into a non-deployable unit or it'd be option of
deployment went away.
Interviewer: Okay.
And so, I was like man… alright we can make the best out of this, but I ended up falling in love
with the Island of Hawaii and I did go, I did travel a little bit but not nearly as much as I wanted
to.
Interviewer: Now which island is the base on? Is it on Oahu or is it on the Big Island or?
Yeah both bases are on Oahu.
(45.39)
Interviewer: Okay.
Actually, every military base is on Oahu, so.
�Interviewer: Alright. Okay so yeah now what was- what was what were you actually doing
on that base because you said the newspaper goes away so then what are you doing?
So, I, we had a public- public affairs is the military version of public relations in this equivalent
at least into the civilian world. So, we did a lot of media escorts, we did talking points,
interviews, I still interviewed people, I still wrote stories but it was more like a social media
aspect and it was just different focus, different platform we use. So, my job didn't change it was
just a heavier focus on how do we effectively communicate to people or how do we, what's the
best way? And we did a lot of media training as well for units, to how to use their social media
accounts, how to, every battalion has like their own Facebook so how do you use it? We’ll will
teach you how so… yeah that's kind of, we’re the communication people.
Interviewer: Alright now did you have to learn a lot of that stuff yourself or had you or far,
were you far enough along with that kind of thing by the time you got there that you could
just step into it?
(46.43)
A lot of it was experimentation on social media, like do videos work better? Or do photos work
better? And since communication is always changing and evolving it was kind of both selftaught and as a team. We learned together; we did a lot of experimenting as a unit like of like ten
people. We, let's try new things out and that's what I really appreciated about my MOS is it was a
very creative environment and in a military setting you don't get a lot of creative environments
and that's why I just I loved my job so much we got to, I got to meet new people every day and I
got to experiment and create graphic designs and news articles and it's just I loved it. It was just a
lot of freeing artistically but while still holding the standard of discipline and being a Marine.
�Interviewer: Okay in terms of the kind of content of the stories and stuff that you're doing
how was it different in Hawaii from Twentynine Palms? Where you talking to different
kinds of people or people who have done different things, or did it all seem pretty much the
same?
(47.43)
So similarly, the bases both had infantry battalions so there was that culture there, but in Hawaii
because of its location in the Pacific we were closer to a lot of different countries and we did a
lot of exercises that promoted like regional security. We’d would work with Australia or
Indonesia, and Japan, Korea we- we’d partner with these nations to do training exercises just in
case something happens like the Earthquake in Nepal when everyone started sending- sending
aid, we had to know how those countries functioned that way we can like build up security in the
region.
Interviewer: Right.
So, we did I worked, I was so blessed I worked with like a bunch of different countries and
learned you know how they do their- their routines and their ranges and I have made friends
from all over the world, it was- it was fun experience.
Interviewer: Okay what, were there things that you learned that kind of surprised you
about these people or these places?
(48.49)
You know one yeah, a bunch of, I learned a bunch of different things. One thing I did notice on a
few training exercises is how well some militaries integrated their females and males, like as a
female Marine that was like my biggest struggle was always being out there with the guys as the
photographer but usually I was the only female in the field so a lot of guys didn't know how to
�handle me and they eventually warmed up to me after a few days you know, but like at first it's
like, “what, why is she here? She's not a… in the infantry.” At the time females weren’t allowed
in the infantry. So, New Zealand, Canada, and Australia in particular. I don't I mean, I don'tactually don't know all the issues with their services that they deal with but in the training
exercises they just, it just felt like they were so in sync the females and males. A lot of like
Canada in particular their army there seemed to be their average demographic or average age
was a little bit older than ours. Like late 20s, early 30s so there was like a maturity aspect when it
came to like integrating males and so I just- I just like watched them be like, while they can do it,
we can do it. Why are we freaking out? That females are gonna be allowed in combat roles?
Because they're doing it in these countries already and they're fine you know. It just gave me
perspective and I really appreciated seeing those different nations and like the pluses and
minuses on both and how we can improve and how, what how they're doing things and it was
just, it was cool.
Interviewer: Okay and did anything stand out to you about say a Japanese or Koreans?
(50.25)
So Asian- Asian countries they- they don't really integrate their females very well. So, when they
saw me a lot of them were just kind of like, like looking at me like I was a unicorn and I thought
that was funny, I got used to it after a while because we worked so often with other nations. But
it was just culturally like they don't have a lot of women heavily involved in their military. Not
saying that you know women don't have opportunity in those countries but in their military it
was just kind of weird that you know like I was just like a different foreign concept to them and
so that was in… that was interesting to kind of… it was, I thought it was funny and but it was
good, like I got to know them I'm a very friendly personality so I wasn't afraid to you know try
�and like I didn't obviously didn’t know the language but I'm not afraid to look kind of stupid to
get to know someone if you will, so. The Indonesians were fun, they would teach me somesome words and they just thought it was so funny like my accent and just I don’t know, it's good
I love my job for that to meet all these new people.
Interviewer: Okay and like how large was the section you were working with there and did
you have a team and so forth?
(51.47)
So, we had like I said, like a team between like eight and ten Marines in the public affairs and
then combat camera had like anywhere between like fifteen to thirty depending on the shop, but
when it comes to like video shoots and training, you're by yourself. So, you learned how to work
by yourself very like quickly. And you have to get all these, the missions and deadlines done
while coordinating what you need done with like for example an infantry battalion who doesn't
need Wi-Fi to upload photos and get them online, how do you function? Like how do you meet
your deadlines while being in the middle of a desert or being in an island with no connectivity
and so you have to problem-solve. So, individual working and problem-solving are like two
skills that I really picked up. Working with like, working at my job remotely.
Interviewer: Okay now when you'd go in the field like that what kind of equipment did you
take with you?
(52.45)
So you take your basic stuff like- like packs and your food and your, all your gear and everything
but also like my camera gear and computer were always with me because I needed to get photos
like put together, video projects put together, stories put together, and the soonest opportunity I
could to upload them I did. But I had all that extra gear too.
�Interviewer: Okay and the, I guess the camera equipment I mean how large a camera were
you carrying?
So, we had DSLRs which is like an awesome digital camera that does video and photos. So, we
are past the days of me carrying this giant video camera with me so, it's like the same, so like
yeah, the Canon- Canon just a normal camera kit that like professional photographers carry out
now is about the size of the kit I had.
Interviewer: Okay but that’s sort of on top of a lot of essentially the regular military kit or
at least if you're carrying your own food, water, things like that plus now did you have a
laptop computer or a tablet or what where you using at that point?
(53.46)
I had a laptop. Yeah so, you're right when it comes to like long distance hikes and stuff all thethe same- the packs that the guys had to carry; I had to carry that and camera gear. Now I- I
understand every guy had a different like weapon to carry too, like infantry guys have machine
guns and mortar tubes and like a bunch of other stuff additionally that I didn't have to carry but
the average standard pack we had and then I had the camera gear as well..
Interviewer: Alright so that- that original Marine training and so forth comes in handy at
that point because you’re used to go marching around places with a pack and all that kind
of thing. Okay, and are there other particular things about that first assignment in Hawaii
that kind of stand out for you?
(54.33)
Hawaii afforded me a lot more opportunity I think than Twentynine Palms and now I like I said I
like that base and it was fun learning the combat side of things; the desert warfare type things if
you will. But Hawaii I don’t know, I just, it's because there was an Air Wing there that was more
�available, I got to fly around more, I got to get on ship in Hawaii like I'd never been on a Navy
ship before. I, you know the Navy ship was a good experience but I'm really glad I didn't join the
Navy because I get seasick so like that's it, that's a real thing. I respect all those, my Navy friends
for that one. But I- I got to go to like the Big Island and train with like 40 other countries once,
like that was a master training exercise. I went to Australia for Marine Rotational Force Darwin.
The- the unit deployment program. I went to Australia again for Talisman Sabre so Australia was
a really only country that I got to visit, which is like kind of still my kind of deepest regret with
the military is not being able to, even though it wasn't my fault but not being able to travel as
much as I wanted to.
Interviewer: Right and you said with the deployments in history you mentioned Darwin
was at Darwin like the town in the northern part of Australia that you actually went to?
Yes.
Interviewer: Okay so what was that like?
(55.58)
Darwin, Darwin's like… so Darwin is not a like massive city like Sydney and it's kind of a
‘desert-y’ environment like really hot. It's not like a desert but it's just got like the tundra and
everything. So, we were based in Darwin but then we'd go on training exercises in Bradshaw
Training Area, which is like officially known, the- the outback if you well. So, we go into the
middle of the actual desert and we would run ranges and train and I mean it was sleeping
underneath the Milky Way in the middle of the outback. Seeing the Southern Cross, which is our
unit at the time, our unit constellation on our logo, like that was just it was just, it was so cool. I,
waking up like super early in the morning for a hike and like all the dust from the desert is like
piling up with a sunbeam showing through it, it was like a photographer's dream, like I had so
�much fun taking pictures in the outback. It was exhausting, you got dirty, you didn’t get to
shower very often, and you had to suck it up a lot, and you had to carry your own weight, but it
was an experience like nothing I've ever had.
(57.16)
Interviewer: Were you the only person from your unit that was doing that, or would you
have a few people that you knew with you?
So, in Darwin we had a few people, but we each like again when training exercise happened, we
each like went out and did our own thing. And when I actually went to train for our month and a
half, I believe that extra- that cycle was, we had four of us with us.
Interviewer: Okay.
So, we could all like kind of tag-team: you do video, I'll do photo, you write the story kind of
things, we all just kind of took turns.
Interviewer: Okay and when you went to that deployment do they fly you out or did you
have… so you're not riding a navy ship with a troop transport with everybody the whole
way?
(57.52)
Some do, I didn't I flew.
Interviewer: Alright, and then what was the other deployment in Australia then, as you
had…
That was a two-week training exercise, so it wasn't like a deployment it was called Talisman
Sabre every year there is a partnership with Australia in some way shape or form and there,
every other year they do Talisman Sabre and the off years are RIMPAC (Rim of the Pacific
Exercise) I believe.
�Interviewer: Okay.
I'm trying to make sure all my information is correct. Like I…
Interviewer: So now what area were you in then for Talisman Sabre?
Darwin.
Interviewer: Okay you're back in Darwin again.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay and do they take you back out in the desert again? Or do you… Okay.
Yep so that, because there's only two weeks I… there's some training exercises I went out for a
day and came right back because I needed to get the photos up. I'm going out for two days, some
I went out for a month, so it just depended, or a month or two. It depended on what the demands
of that were like and I would you know, when on the longer training exercises I would have like
a USB and send it back of photos or whatever if I couldn't connect, and I’d- I’d figured it out
every- every place you went you figured it out.
Interviewer: Alright and so were there vehicles or helicopters going back and forth
between the field and the rear so you could either hitch a ride or give something to
somebody?
(59.14)
Yes, they're usually, so when we go out into the field there's like this, they set up like a- like a
base camp if you will, and then you go even further out. So, like there's the base camp that you
can go to- to deliver stuff to.
Interviewer: Right.
But you're still out there you're not, I'm not going all the way back to Darwin that was like a tenhour drive.
�Interviewer: Alright now some people that hear about Australia, they think about
interesting and dangerous fauna did you have to worry about scorpions and snakes and
things like that or was that not an issue?
I was worried about that but I, we're in the middle of the desert like and there's tall dry grass so
there was brush fires everywhere and there's wildfires all over that area and- and we kept far
enough away for safety and everything. But we were, so there was like really tall dry grass
because in the- the wet season the whole place is covered, swampy and in the dry it's like a waste
land so there’s really tall dry grass that we're walking through for our, one of our patrol
movements and we just, we’re supposed to be quiet you know because, you know coming up on
a hypothetical enemy and I was just sitting there with my camera walking through this tall grass
like kind of low-key panicking that there's gonna be these crazy poisonous creatures everywhere.
I like remember nudging the guy next to me, I didn’t know who he was I'm like, “are you
worried about like snakes and stuff.” And he just kind of looks at me he's like, “I don't know.”
And I looked over to another guy and he heard us and he's just kind of like “shh.” And I’m like
okay you know I guess- I guess we're just gonna accept our doom and continue like whatever.
Like I'm sure somebody thought about it.
Interviewer: Okay but there weren't any formal warnings about the fauna or anything like
that?
No, I mean we saw kangaroos and stuff, but we never encountered anything super dangerous so.
(1:01.05)
Interviewer: Alright and at least if the Kangaroos attack your people are armed so.
Yeah exactly.
�Interviewer: Alright so you have, now you do, when you're in Hawaii you do switch
assignments, you go to a different base and how did that come about?
So, when I first got to Hawaii, I spent a year in their Marine Corps Base Hawaii but then there
were openings at Camp Smith, Marine Corps Forces, Pacific and so we're taking
recommendations from because we, I guess we had too many people at Marine Corps Base
Hawaii so they just transferred me and one other person over. And that was a higher command
that was unlike any of the command I had been in. Marine Corps Forces, Pacific was in charge of
every Marine Corps unit in that area. So, I worked two floors below a three-star general, I
worked two doors down from a full-bird colonel which is one step below a general, so it was, as
a sergeant like who was used to just dealing with people, peers, and a few enlisted ranks above
me, I had to learn real quick how to… I always felt like I was professional, but I had to learn real
quick that, how to talk to senior leadership within the entire organization of the Marine Corps.
And it was a good experience, I think not a lot of Marines get to see a general level and work
next to one, and it was really fun to kind of learn from like the older generation of Marines and
kind of learn leadership styles from what they had experienced, what they are, what I want to be,
and just kind of take, it was a good learning experience.
Interviewer: Now were the more senior people, were they used to dealing with women or do
they handle that professionally or do you still have the sense that you kind of don't belong
here?
(1:02.52)
With senior leadership they’re way more professional.
Interviewer: Okay.
�So, that was not- not really an issue with, for the most part. I mean I can't speak for every female
Marine obviously there's a bunch of situations, but it was kind of refreshing working around
people who were like older and like genuinely cared about your development or where guiding
influences if you needed it and so.
Interviewer: And where there some higher-ranking women in that assignment as well so
you're...?
Yes, but with that, when it comes to female leadership it's hit and miss and at the risk of
sounding like negative and the same with males too. There's not… a lot of… a bad leadership
can ruin your unit, it can ruin your experience, it can ruin your attitude, I mean if you let it. So,
there's unfortunately there's like a stereotype for a female Marines for a reason because there are
people who have bad, poor moral character or just like people who just are not good at
leadership. But when you find that female that is like what you want to be, like that is someone
to like cling to and become a mentee of for sure.
(1:04.13)
Interviewer: Okay, alright and was your job now different from what it had been
previously? Are you doing a different set of things or just the same stuff for a different
group of people?
So, I stopped- I stopped being so much of a journalist and more of a brand marketer if you will
and focusing heavily on media relations. I learned how to write press releases and talking points
for the generals when/ should they be interviewed. Media escorts; got to work with CNN, Fox,
VICE News, Reuters so I mean it was cool. I got to meet a lot of Pearl Harbor veterans because
Pearl Harbor is right down the road from Camp Smith. I got to see a lot of and appreciate a lot of
�like the history that I am a part of, and I learned a lot about the Marines’ role in the Pacific- the
Pacific Theater during World War II, so.
Interviewer: Alright does anybody, I mean so the, so some of it is you're gonna… using
Marine Corps history to help kind of promote the Marine Corps? Or are there some of the
events going on that your part of because you're at Pearl, in that Pearl Harbor area? Now
do they also pay attention to things that Marines did later, you know Vietnam or Korea or
the more recent conflicts, was that also, did you do things that related to those or was it
mostly World War II and now?
(1:05.42)
Absolutely actually I had a combat camera friend go to Vietnam to document retrieval of bodies
of Marines that never came home or service members.
Interviewer: Right.
So, like it was very, the history of the- the US presence in that area is very real and it's like still
a- a like it's still a big part of the history and taken very seriously and respectfully. When I was in
Hawaii 35 bodies of Marines were excavated from Tarawa from World War II an island of
Tarawa. Marines still hike to Iwo Jima like to this day to put their rank or their emblem on the
top to memorialize like the Marines that died there. The history of the Marine Corps is very
important to Marines; it's just who we are it's- it's those who came before us and those who are
coming after us. We kind of all see each other in like a bonding way of you were a Marine, and
this is what you did, and mad respect to you because you know that's- that's kind of what we're
all here for and so we’re, take care of our World War II veterans and Vietnam veterans if we get
the chance for sure.
�Interviewer: Okay now you basically do two hitches, you do eight years in the Marines. At
what point did you decide you were leaving?
(1:07.16)
The decision to get out was very bittersweet because I never stopped loving the Marine Corps. A
lot of, a lot of people get out because they're disheartened or disgruntled but like that was, I felt
like I was ready to get out. I did not get the deployment opportunities that I really wanted, and I
wasn't going to.
Interviewer: Okay.
And there's a… and I- I saw the next base I was going to would have advanced my career, but it
wouldn't have advanced my- my like just like my goals.
Interviewer: Yeah, your personal agenda, where you wanted to go. So, where did theywhere did they want to send you next?
They wanted to send me to a recruiting station to be a public affairs representative for an entire
region of recruiting which would have been awesome for my career. As a Marine though I- I
wanted to lead junior Marines, I wanted to deploy, and I wanted to do what I signed up to do and
that wasn't it. So, I just, I applied for some things to do. I didn't really get them and the decision
to get out was a very like personal like okay, I'm ready to go to college, like I'm ready to start a
new path, and I think it's important and any advice I give Marines that are getting out is make
sure you're ready. Because even now I don't regret the decision to get out, I miss it, but I don't
regret the decision to get out, but I encounter a lot of veterans who were like, “I want back in.”
And like you gotta be ready to get out, if you're not ready you're gonna like, what if I would have
stayed in mentality would tear you up so.
(1:08.50)
�Interviewer: Alright so when did you get out?
I got out the day after our Marine Corps ball in 2016 so it was kind of like the best like goingaway party I can take for myself, yeah so.
Interviewer: Okay and now you're back and you're a student at Grand Valley State
University, what are you majoring in?
I'm majoring in PR and advertising with an emphasis in PR with a minor in photography and I
am learning so much. Like it was fun doing photography in the Marine Corps, I learned a lot
there but the technical skills were not taught to me the way they should have, and I'm just
enjoying learning how to do studio photography, and abstract photography, and storytelling
photography on a level that I've never done before.
Interviewer: Okay now do you find that your background helps you or you know things
that some of the other traditional students don't know?
100% the military has 100% prepared me to set me up for success in the civilian world, at least
in the college environment and I have no doubt in the professional world as well. They've just,
they taught me, I didn't have discipline getting into the military, I have discipline now and I
didn't have as much confidence going in as I do now. Now confidence isn't like, I'm not cocky
I'm still humble, I've come from humble beginnings and like that's where I'm, I know where I
come from, but there is a level of like I got this and challenge accepted type mentality that I
didn't really have before, other than to take on the challenge of being a Marine so.
(1:10.26)
Interviewer: Okay well you've effectively answered the usual final question of an interview
like this; how do you think your- your time in the service affected you? Because I think you
just told me. Now are there, is there anything else that you recall that you- you want to put
�on the record here before we close this interview out? Or anything else, you think that kind
of stands with you in your mind that, if you think back to being in the Marines?
I definitely grew a lot as a person. There were some dark times and there were some really
motivating times. I- I was not like the perfect poster child of being a Marine but I did my best
and I think that the- the concept of a poster child is not an accurate one because we all come
from different walks of life. I'm grateful and I have nothing but good things to say about it even
though the challenges, even with sexism stuff that's not the Marine Corps fault, that's a human
error, and a lot of women unfortunately get like really disgruntled towards that attitude and
disheartened, and you just get exhausted after fighting a stereotype for so long and you still can't
win because it's a cultural mentality. It's not- it’s not like an individual person you can have a
discussion with.
Interviewer: Yeah, did that evolve at all over time, I mean or was you just by changing
stations you have a different environment?
No, it never evolved, never changed and the worst I got, the more rank I picked up and I mean I
ran into some really good leadership and really bad leadership. And the really good leadership
encouraged me and mentored me in a way I clung to that, and I guess that would be like advice
to anyone I would give is to cling to the ones you want to be like.
(1:12.07)
Interviewer: Yeah.
And learn, learn continue to learn from the ones that you don't want to be like. But, yeah it, a lot
of females had it worse off than I did because I'm a very flexible personality I- I try to
understand where people are coming from even though they say messed up things, I try to have
discussions with people and I wasn't like, I- I'm very slow to anger. So, like a lot of women
�really struggled with getting like, taking it so personally and so angry and instead of like letting it
roll off. Gotta get some thick skin and sometimes I think thicker skin than some of the guys. I
mean they have their own battles too they have to fight; the whole Marine mentality like you
have to be the Captain America, you know and if you're not then you're not really a good Marine
and like that's just a stereotype they have to face so we each have our own struggles. But I think
the most important thing is to respect each other's struggles and that's what a lot of, I found male
Marines lacked was the respect for the struggle of fighting that stereotype, instead of just
assuming, if that makes sense.
Interviewer: Sure, it does.
Assuming that we're part of it.
Interviewer: Yeah and it's really sophisticated view of the whole thing really and I’d just
like to close out here by thank you- thank you for taking the time to share the story today,
really told us quite a bit.
I appreciate you having me thank you.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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RHC-27_AndersonS2303V
Title
A name given to the resource
Anderson, Sarah (Interview transcript and video), 2019
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-04-19
Description
An account of the resource
Sarah Anderson was born in 1990 in Muskegon, Michigan, and lived in the same house for her entire childhood. Anderson graduated high school in 2009 and immediately joined the Marine Corps since she disliked the mundane environment of the classroom, was energetic, and saw the positive impact the Corps had upon her brother. During the 9/11 attacks, Anderson was in the fifth grade and remembers being sent home early after hearing of the attacks over the radio, later influencing her decision to join the service. She attended Marine Boot Camp in August of 2009 at Parris Island, South Carolina, where male recruits were separated from female recruits, even though training standards were equal between the sexes. In addition to basic training, recruits were instructed on hand-to-hand combat in the Marine Martial Arts Program and Anderson recalled how all training was meant to break down recruits to build them up again as skilled, devoted, proud soldiers. After Boot Camp, Anderson transferred into Marine Combat Training in Fort Johnson, North Carolina, where she chose her career within the Corps, and then to Fort Meade, Maryland, for her Marine Occupational Specialty schooling in public affairs. She then chose her occupation within the Corps as a Combat Correspondent, or Strategic Communications and Mass Communicator, and described her occupational schooling as greatly constructive due to her greater exposure to the experiences of other branches of the U.S. Armed Forces. Anderson's first base assignment was in Twentynine Palms, California, where she interviewed Marines before they were deployed to Afghanistan, growing attached to her work and to the stories of these men. When her first four years of service ended, Anderson was encouraged to reenlist by her fellow Marines as well as an underlying dread that she had not seen enough of the Corps or the world. Once reenlisted, she opted to be stationed in bases on Oahu Island, Hawaii, where she continued her media work online and through interviews. She became exposed to working with military personnel of all ranks, urging her to quickly develop proper etiquette for addressing high ranking soldiers and commanders. She also acquired opportunities to work with military personnel from other nations from across the globe, allowing her to see into the military cultures of other countries. Anderson concluded that her work on Oahu taught her the values of working individually, thus independently, and problem solving between the needs of various specializations within the military. Later, she transferred to Darwin, Australia, for Marine Rotational Force Darwin, a unit deployment program, and Talus Mu Saber, a two-week training exercise held every other year between the American and Australian militaries. Anderson became more of a 'brand marketer' than a Combat Correspondent, focusing on both media and public relations through working with major media outlets, social media, and other forms of press coverage. With this new focus, she became more integrated with the history of the Corps in the Second World War, Vietnam, as well as current conflicts. After eight years in the service, Anderson made the difficult decision to leave the Corps in 2016 since she never acquired the deployment opportunities she strived for. From there, she attended Grand Valley State University for a degree in PR, advertising, and photography. She commended her recent academic ventures for teaching her the technical skills that the Corps could not provide her while also commending the Corps for teaching her discipline and responsibility. Reflecting upon her service, Anderson believed she grew tremendously as a person through the Corps by doing her best, especially in the face of subtle, underlying sexism or gender stereotypes. Ultimately, these subtle tensions in gender relations remained constant during her service. She also adhered to the moral and ethical teachings of various mentors and instructors who helped her build a stronger character and skills in leadership.
Pre-Enlistment: (00:00:52:00)
Enlistment/Training: (00:06:30:00)
Service: (00:29:48:00)
Post-Service Life: (01:07:17:00)
Reflections: (01:09:43:00)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Anderson, Sarah
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
United States. Marine Corps
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401.
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ff483618ff74907e965c976874832f50.mp4
649a19279b670a7c9b9457be542f649d
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ffd3f77fe039256ee1073dff2ca63c0a.pdf
4bde0c1fcaa09d3a88caa61a623ab5ee
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Larry R. Armstrong
(18:15)
Pre-Enlistment
• Born in Livingston, TN (1:40)
• Was a shoe shine boy when he was 8 years old (2:00)
• Became a boxer when he was in his teen years (2:20)
• Tried to run away and join the service, but his mother found out (2:35)
• Tape is edited poorly; just the audio ends, but comes back with audio and visual
Enlistment
• Joined the Marines (3:45)
• Very strict code of conduct (4:00)
• Had an acting black sergeant named Ingraham [Ingram?](4:50)
• Sergeant’s father was president at Fisk University (5:15)
• Left Camp LeJeune on December 7th, 1943 (5:30)
• Went to Pearl Harbor (5:50)
Marshall Islands
• Went to Marshall Islands 2 months later for 8 months (6:15)
• Did not do any fighting, just cleanup (6:25)
• Burned out trees, stood guard duty (6:50)
• Had to use code words, because Japanese were still on the islands (7:10)
• Had some Japanese POWs, but did not have access to them (7:30)
• Stayed in touch with his family through letters, but couldn’t say much (9:40)
• Food wasn’t all that good, but kept them alive (9:50)
• Were supplied very well (10:05)
• Felt strange not being able to see family for long periods of time (10:30)
• Often went to the beach at night when he couldn’t sleep (10:50)
• Mail call was most important time of the day (11:00)
• Somehow found a piano, and sometimes had a sing-along (11:25)
• Plenty of gambling on the Islands (11:45)
• Went back to Maui, HI, and was there when the bombs were dropped on Japan
(13:10)
• Was processed out in November of 1945 (13:20)
Coming Home
• Was attached to the 4th Marine Division (13:30)
• Did not see any of the casualties (13:50)
• Came back by boat, stayed up all night to see the first lights of San Francisco
(14:15)
• Stayed on Treasure Island for 6 days, then boarded an aircraft carrier and was sent
to San Diego (14:30)
�•
•
•
•
Went to Camp Pendleton (14:50)
Went on leave in Los Angeles for a week after he arrived (15:00)
Visited Club Alabama (15:30)
Did not receive USO tours while he was on the Islands (16:00)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Armstrong, Larry (Interview outline and video), 2003
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Armstrong, Larry
Description
An account of the resource
Larry Armstrong was born in Livingston, Tennessee. He joined the Marines and attended boot camp at Camp LeJeune. After boot camp, he was sent to the Marshall Islands to do clean up work such as clearing roads and standing guard. He was sent to Maui, Hawaii, and was there when the bomb was dropped on Japan.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer)
Collins, Carol (Interviewer)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Marine Corps
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
African-American soldiers
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2003-08-18
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ArmstrongL
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f9183abecf9bb09bba80044df7c2c6e7.mp4
15352bbab56053f4446def473ecf8b8d
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0b412f7e059241c97029f9e8e1f5282e.pdf
629519449e0070b650bc76dc68471ad2
PDF Text
Text
ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW
ROBERT AUSTIN
Born: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Resides:
Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project,
Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, October 2, 2011
Interviewer: Now, Mr. Austin can you start out by telling us a little bit about
yourself? Where and when were you born?
I was born in Grand Rapids and six months after I was born my folks moved to
Grandville, Michigan. I lived in Grandville until the depression. My dad lost the house
and they moved us out onto a farm, I lived on a farm.
Interviewer: What kind of work had your father been doing?
My dad was a car salesman, and of course he lost his job.
Interviewer: Whose farm did you go to live on?
He rented one, and then us kids—then we started eating good because we grew our stuff,
but when we were in the city there we didn’t eat very good. We had to go barefoot in the
summer because we couldn’t wear out our shoes and if our shoes wore out we had to cut
cardboard and stuff it in the holes, so we didn’t walk on the ground. When spring came
we had to take our shoes off and we had to go barefoot, except on Sundays when we
could wear our shoes. 1:23
Interviewer: Where was the farm?
The farm was in Grandville. It was over on what is 28th Street now, but we moved over
on the farm there and us kids had to slop the pigs and chase the cows and everything. At
1
�the time we thought it was kind of rough, but now when I look back on it, my folks were
the ones that had it rough.
Interviewer: How many kids were in the family?
There were six of us, four boys and two girls.
Interviewer: Did you finish high school?
I graduated on June 15th and joined the Marines in 1941 and I went into the Marine Corps
on the 25th of June.
Interviewer: Why did you decide to join the Marines?
That’s a good question. I think what influenced me was the uniform, really, but I thought
over the years—I don’t know, I had a girl friend and I was doing good, I don’t know why
I went in because it was before the war. 2:32
Interviewer: they were recruiting at that time. They were trying to build up the
armed forces. Did you figure it was because there weren’t a lot of job prospects, so
joining the military made sense?
Me and a buddy of mine went down to Grand Rapids and how we ran into this Marine
recruiting office I don’t know, but he couldn’t pass because on account of his dad he
couldn’t get in the Marine Corps, but I had rheumatic fever once and my mother went to
the doctor and he said, ―don’t worry, he won’t pass‖, and of course they just shoved me
right on through.
Interviewer: Once you are accepted in where did you go for basic training?
I started out from Grand Rapids in a bus and they took us to Detroit and then we got on a
train in Detroit and picked up a bunch of recruits. 3:33 Then we went to Chicago and
stopped and got some more recruits. Then we started to go south and one thing I thought
2
�was awfully funny, we were going along and this one kid from Chicago said, ―look, look,
there’s a cow‖, and we said, ―Cow, what’s the big deal about a cow?‖ Well, he’d never
seen one; he’d never been out of Chicago. Then we got down to Parris Island, South
Carolina and it was raining, and I had worn my brown and white shoes and all my best
clothes and they were marching us. When we got to camp there was a big puddle of
water there and we walked around it and they backed us up and made us walk right
through it, and I thought, ―Gee, what did I get into here?‖ 4:35 A couple days later we
went to the barber shop and they cut off all of our hair. This one kid from Philadelphia
had this wavy hair and he was all upset, but it didn’t bother me. In the Marine Corps you
got paid twice a month and when we went to get paid the first time they gave you a
bucket that you washed your clothes in and in the bucket was paper and pencil to write
home, stuff to clean your rifle with and soap and that. They gave you that bucket and
they gave you a fifty-cent piece. You only made twenty-one dollars and I thought, ―What
the devil did I get into? Here I’m getting paid and I get fifty-cents?‖ That kind of set me
back. 5:31
Interviewer: How did the drill instructors treat you?
Back in those days they were pretty rough. They wouldn’t let them do what they did
today. I remember one Sunday, we were supposed to wear our dress shoes, and we had a
corporal and a sergeant who was our instructor and this corporal came back and he was a
little tipsy and he saw this one kid without his shoes on, so they called us all outside and
they lined us up in two rows and we had to take off our belts. The belts had clips on both
ends, of course, of the belt, and he made us run through the line and you had to hit the
guy as you went by and if you didn’t hit your buddy you had to go back through again.
3
�That was one of the—they wouldn’t allow that today, but back in those days it was pretty
rough. 6:30
Interviewer: How did you hold up under all that? Were you in good shape?
Oh yeah, I played a lot of sports in school and I was in good shape. When we got done,
when we graduated, they sent me to Quantico, Virginia and they put me in the air force
and they sent me down to Jacksonville, Florida to go to this school and while we were on
vacation, or on leave really for a week-end, that’s when the Japs attacked Pearl Harbor.
They confiscated all the busses and they went through the bull horns yelling, ―all
Marines, sailors, Army, back to your base‖, so they took us back to the base and the
funny thing about it, they sent all—it was a naval base, the naval school I was going to,
and they sent all the sailors out in the woods and they had all the Marines line up in front
of the administration building. 7:45 At that time we had the old WWI rifles and they
gave us each a clip of, which I think had five shells in it, and there we stood. I don’t
know what they thought we were going to do, but it was complete chaos when we landed.
Interviewer: How long did it take until things quieted down a little bit?
It was quite a while because after that, I don’t know how much longer it was, a week or
so, they yelled and we all had to get up and they heard a plane coming. Well, it ended up
being one of our own P-40s, but they blacked out the whole camp and they fell the
Marines out in front of the administration building and, of course, we had our rifles and
our hats. 8:38 They didn’t call them hats, but everything was blacked out and here
came this car with its lights off coming to pick up the commander. He didn’t see us and
he slammed right into all the Marines standing there. I lost my hat and I lost my rifle, a
couple kids got killed and I don’t know how many got wounded, but that was real chaos.
4
�It was so black you couldn’t really blame the guy because he couldn’t see, but that was
quite an experience.
Interviewer: when you were down there in Jacksonville, what aspect of the Marine
air service were you trained for? Were you going to be ground crew or flight crew?
No, I was going to be just in the ground crew like a mechanic or something. 9:31 It was
a funny thing down there, we were there and there were a bunch of Englishmen down
there too, and every Saturday we would have a contest to see who was the best marcher,
and of course I was sure we were, and it was a funny thing, every time they voted it
always came out a tie. I guess they didn’t want us to know, but I know darn well that we
were the best ones. Then they sent me back to Quantico and I was put in the—like
mechanics and they put me in one where—back in those days the controls were all in—
you had to put cloth on them and here I thought I was a hairy Marine and here I was
working on a sewing machine stitching that stuff on there. I thought, ―Boy, this is great.
Here I am a Marine and I’m doing that‖. 10:43 I made sergeant and corporal while I
was there, but I was kind of embarrassed thinking I’m a hairy Marine and what am I
doing sitting here with a needle stitching things? Back in those days you had to volunteer
for the paratroopers and they put up note asking for volunteers and I thought, ―here’s my
chance to get out of there‖, because I wanted to go fight, so I volunteered for the Marine
Corps paratroopers. I got a real nasty letter from my sister saying I wasn’t thinking of my
folks by doing it. 11:29
Interviewer: Now, when was it that you signed up for that? Was it in 1942 or was it
later than that?
5
�Yeah, it must have been—well I’d been at Quantico long enough to make sergeant, so I
must have been there a couple of years, but I can’t remember, but then I signed up and
the sent me to North Carolina.
Interviewer: Before we go on with your story—you’re at Quantico then for a fair
amount of time. What did you do there besides sewing?
That was about it. I was a real hairy Marine sitting there stitching.
Interviewer: Was there—did they have a lot of guys doing that?
There was a master sergeant and a sergeant, an aid and there were two women, civilians
that worked in there. You had to stitch that on and after you stitched it on you took it in
and you painted—put some stuff on it, it was white and I don’t know what it was, and
that made it hard and then you painted it blue after you got done. Then it went back and
they put them on the ships, but I didn’t think much of a Marine Corps being a—sitting
there with a needle. I was embarrassed to tell anybody what I was doing. 12:49
Interviewer: Did you get much of a chance to go off the base? I mean, did you get
leave or anything?
Oh yeah
Interviewer: Where did you go when you could go off base?
Oh, I went to Washington D.C. mostly, we went to Washington D.C., and that would be
mostly on weekends.
Interviewer: What was going on there? What was there to do when you went
there?
Well, I use to go around, and I should have taken more advantage of it, but I use to go
around—we did a lot of partying. It was just full of Marines and sailors and soldiers, and
6
�we just went around and I went around the different monuments and that, but I should
have done more of it. 13:37
Interviewer: Mostly you went there because it was a big city and it was something
to do.
That was the biggest place around. There was some little town down there we use to go
to too, but I forget what the name of it was.
Interviewer: Now, you get accepted into the paratrooper program and what do you
do in the way of training for that?
Well, when we got—they sent me down to North Carolina then where I trained for the
paratroopers and then, I would say, there were about forty or fifty in the class. By the
time we graduated there were only twenty-two of us, I think, that were left. In the
paratroopers you had to pass a real test and it was all volunteers, the paratroopers, and
you quit anytime you wanted to until you got your wings, but once you got your wings
you were court marshaled if you didn’t bail out. 14:42 We ran, everyplace we went we
ran, we got up at five o’clock in the morning and you would go exercise for an hour and
then you would run and run and in the afternoon you would run. If anybody passed out
you just pulled them over into the ditch until they came to. When they walked back to
camp they kicked them out of the paratroopers and put them back in the Marines. I’ll
never forget, one time, you know you do all the exercising and running and you are really
hungry, and we were in the chow line and we were hungry—it makes me think of
pictures I saw where these prisoners bang on the table, and we all started banging on the
table wanting more food. 15:38 finally the captain came in and he made them cook up
some more food, so we got more food, but it was real rough. We had to pack our own
7
�chutes until you got your wings. The first time I jumped, the plane was a D-4 and it used
to come down and pick-up a load and they would go up and it was over an airfield, and
they would jump out and then they would come down and get another load. The load
before I had to go up there, they bailed out and this one guy bailed out and his chute
never opened. He came straight down and you could see, it was just over the airport, and
he bounced, and I can still see him bouncing. 16:29 I was a sergeant at that time and I
had to be the first one to go out the door and they brought that helmet in there and that
helmet was all cracked. They said, ―now see, if you didn’t pack your chute right that’s
what’s going to happen to you‖, and that didn’t make it any easier. When they got up
there, and I was a sergeant at that time, so I had to go out first and they use to say,‖ hook
on, stand-by, go‖, and to this day I don’t remember them saying go, but I stood by the
door looking down at the ground going by me like that and I thought, ―I’ll do this once,
but that’s the last time‖. He said, ―Go‖, and in the Marine Corps we dove out, in the
Army they jumped out, but we went out headfirst. As I was coming, once it opened up
you would say, 1 and 2 and 3 and 4, and if it didn’t open you had this other chute in front
of you and you would open that. I bailed out and once it opens—that was a lot of fun,
you hit the ground and you want to go right back up there. 17:43 That day four of our
guys ran right by the door and wouldn’t bail out, and when we landed they came and took
these guys out and put them back in the regular Marine Corps. They said, ―See what
would happen if we were in combat and you froze in the door? You would miss where
you were landing‖, so they kicked them out. We had a lot of guys that when we were
running and they got tired or something, or the heat would bother them and they would
fall, we’d just pull them over off the road and leave them lay there until they came to.
8
�When they came to they’d walk back in and they would kick them out of the
paratroopers. In the paratroopers you had to be—when you were done with that you were
in real good condition. 18:37 I think, like I said, we started out with about forty and
only twenty-two of us graduated. After I graduated they sent me to Camp Pendleton. We
went to Camp Pendleton and we lived up in the mountains in tents. It was pretty rough
up there because you didn’t have any floor. The only floor was in the ―head," which the
Army calls ‖latrine‖, that’s the only floor there was. In the Marine Corps we got paid
twice a month, so what we would do—as soon as you got paid we were in the ―head’
shooting dice. Guys were sitting over there shooting dice up there. 19:36 We trained
up there for, I don’t know how long, and then they disbanded the Marines [paratroopers]
because, I was told and I suppose it’s right, they told us the islands were too small to
jump on, so they formed the 5th Marine Corps [Division]. The nucleus of the 5th Marines
was the paratroopers and the raiders, and then they had all rookies. They trained us out
there and then they shipped me—we shipped to Hawaii and we were on the big island, at
Hilo. When we got off the ship they put us on flat cars and towed us way up by this
volcano and we trained up there. I forget how long we trained up there. Hilo wasn’t
much of a town, so we didn’t see much, but just before we shipped out they took us over
to Hawaii to Honolulu. 20:41 We thought that was really something.
Interviewer: Now when they had you training on the big island, was that kind of
jungle country that you were training in?
No, there were volcanoes, a big volcano right up there. It was all—there was practically
nothing there at all.
9
�Interviewer: I guess if they were planning on sending you to Iwo Jima, which is a
little volcanic island, I guess that made some sense.
Yeah, that made some sense, but you know at one time, the kids like me to tell this story.
I was a sergeant there and I was the guide and this one sergeant we had, the head, when
was a staff sergeant, he fell us out and he had been training women Marines and he didn’t
know anything about the Marine Corps. He was a great one for inspection all the time, so
he fell us out for inspection and I was between tow sergeant guys, so I would stand by
myself with the platoon there, but he handed me his rifle to hold while he inspected and I
looked at it an oh was it dirty, holy smokes. 21:51 One thing in the Marine Corps you
took care of your rifle and I looked at that and said ―holy smokes‖, and I turned around
and there was a corporal standing there and I said, ―here take this rifle‖, and he said, ―no,
no‖, and I said, ―you heard me, take that rifle‖, so he took this sergeant's rifle and gave
me his and he came through inspecting the rifles and he grabbed that rifle and it was
dirty. Oh, was it dirty, and he goes like that and he rubs it on and he was eating this
corporal out and finally the corporal said, ―well sergeant, it’s not nine, it’s your rifle.
Sergeant Austin gave it to me ―. Oh, he closed ranks and he brought me into his tent and
he said, ―I got a good reason to run you up to the captain‖, and I said, ―Why don’t you do
that, but be sure to take your rifle with you?‖ 22:41 After that we never got along too
well together. I kind of put him on the spot, but it was—I did some funny things when I
was in the Marine Corps.
Interviewer: Was he the company sergeant? Was he ranked a greater sergeant
than you at that point?
10
�We were in the first platoon and you had a staff sergeant, and you had a sergeant guide,
which I was, and then you had your platoon. I forget how many in the platoon, so that
was in A Company, I was in A Company. We trained up there and then they loaded us
up and they didn’t tell us where we were going until we got out to sea, and they told us
that we were going to Iwo Jima and nobody knew what Iwo Jima was. 23:37 We didn’t
know what the heck it was and we got to Saipan and we were on a troop ship there, and
that’s another funny thing about that troop ship, we got in a –it was rough, seasick and
everything. We were on there and when you went to chow you come up the gangplank
up there and they only let a couple guys out at a time and you had to grab this railing and
walk down along and walk back down to where you ate. You ate at these long tables and
at the end of the table there was a big fifty gallon bucket setting there and you would be
eating and other Marines would be there throwing up in this thing. Oh, it was rough and I
don’t know the ship stayed together. It just shook like that, and when we were out there
something went wrong with the sewage system in there. 24:43 They didn’t have toilets,
all they had is troughs you sat on and as the ship rolled you would pick up you feet and
the waste would go by you and when it went back you would pick up your feet again and
it went back. That was quite a thing, that troop ship, you know. On a troop ship you
sleep about that much apart and you get all those guys in there at night it was pretty
smelly in there. We were on this troop ship and they took us to Saipan and I don’t
remember how long we laid out there on the bay, but finally we were going to Iwo. I was
in A Company, but they assigned me to go in with the first wave. 25:40 I think it was B
and C that went in first. I was supposed to go in with the first wave and I was supposed
to report back to the captain.
11
�Interviewer: Did you have a radio? How would you communicate?
No, I had to come back and tell him. We got off the troop ship and you had to be careful,
you had to go down, you saw them, ropes that you went down and if you didn’t time it
right, as the ship went up like this the other one dropped and if you let go you fell, so you
had to time it just right. As you were coming down there as the ship came up, you could
just step off it.
Interviewer: Were you getting into landing craft?
We were getting into landing craft, an LST [ LVT], and we were getting into that and
some guys missed it and went in the water and some guy went bang, but I was fortunate, I
got on there. 26:39 We took off for Iwo Jima and that night before we went to sleep
they fed us like kings. We never been fed so good before. We had hamburgers and
everything and we though, ―boy this is a good deal‖, and of course, it’s the first time I’d
been in combat and I was looking forward to it, which wasn’t too smart. We took off and
that night when we went to be there was about eight of these small LST’s and in the
bottom was where these half-tracks were they were supposed to take you right up on the
island. They were just small and I showed you the picture of me on it in that book there.
27:33
Interviewer: Now, the LST’s were the ships that had the door that opened in the
front?
They would open and when we did it we went down, but the night before there were only
about six or eight of us and when we got to Iwo, and I don’t remember how many miles it
was, eight or nine hundred miles, but holy, when the sun came up you couldn’t believe
the amount of ships that were there. My God, there were ships--there were cruisers in
12
�there, there were aircraft carriers and the Missouri was a battleship. When we had a load
we went down below to get in these half-tracks we had to come up to the Missouri and go
around it and go around in front and they were shooting out there and I never saw
flames—off those great big guns, you know. The flames would go for, gee, I don’t know
for how long right over the top of us. 28:34 We started in to land and I still forget—I
should have put the gun to his head, this sailor got us in about, oh, fifty yards or a
hundred yards, I don’t know, and said he couldn’t go any further. He told us to bail out.
Well, I think he was nothing but yellow. We jumped out and when you jump, we were in
water up to our necks, so we had to go ashore and we went ashore and when the first
wave—before that they saw along the edge there was a bunch of tanks there and they
looked like fifty gallon drums and the Marines thought they were going to be fire, so the
first wave, we had to put all this white stuff on our faces and our hands, and if anything
explodes you put that stuff on and it was just white. 29:41 We started in to land and I’ll
never forget, this one sergeant he had been on Guadalcanal and there he was in the corner
crying and he wouldn’t even move because he knew what he was going to. At that time
we thought it was kind of odd.
Interviewer: When you were trained, when you were in Hawaii, were you trained
by people who had combat experience?
Oh yeah
Interviewer: They didn’t tell you much about their experience?
No, they didn’t tell you much about it. Two of my best friends, they were both Indians,
one was from a New York reservation and one from out west someplace, and I never saw
them again. I was told they both lost their lives on Iwo Jima. They were paratroopers,
13
�one was a Raider and one was a paratrooper and they had both been on Guadalcanal, but
they never told us much about it. 30:40 Here I am a young kid, I was about twenty-two
and I was all ―eager Beaver‖, and I found out. We got out about fifty yards from the
thing and he told us to bail out, so we did jump out. We landed on the island and nothing
happened. It was just like-Interviewer: Now, were you driving the half-tracks out or did they stay in the boat?
No, he turned around and took them back. He went back and I’ll never forget that, and of
course, he had to go back and get some more to come in. The first wave, we landed on
the island and it was just like going down to Holland, no body was there, and of course,
you couldn’t see anything because they were all underground. We landed and, what the
heck, what are you going to do? They let three waves get in and then they opened up on
it. Mt. Suribachi was on the left and we were supposed to go up straight and capture this
airfield and turn right. 31:50 Well, they shot these mortars from Mt. Suribachi and they
would shoot them down and you could hear them coming and they were just coming right
down there. You could hear them coming and you just laid there and kind of praying and
they would lift you right off the ground while you—you couldn’t dig a hole because it
was lava and it was hot and you would go down that far and it was hot. You would hear
them coming and you would just lie there like that. There was this kid laying in this hole,
which I suppose was done by our big guns, and we were laying there with our hands over
our head like that and he was behind me there and it would lift you right off the ground
and after it went by me I turned and his head was off. 32:57 When I rose up like that
there was, and I can still see it after sixty years, there was the brains or the guts or
something, and there it lay right next to my head. I looked at it, of course and it was
14
�quite an experience because there he lay without any head. Then I got up and I ran ahead
and we use to see these cowboy shows where somebody got shot and they went like this,
and that’s exactly how it happened. We were running and this guy up ahead of me all of
a sudden, he went down and there was a pillbox up ahead of me and I thought it was
knocked out because they had been shooting weeks before I guess, but they never did any
good because they were all underground. 34:03 I dove into kind of a hole next to that
pillbox and I laid there and I was going to get up to move and I heard a ―pop‖ and I
turned around and there was a hand grenade, a Jap hand grenade—our hand grenades
would bust up into big pieces, but theirs were smooth and broke up in slivers. I was told
later, and I don’t know if it’s true or not, they said the reason theirs were that way was
they figured they would wound us soldiers and then it would take another one to take care
of us. So, I looked at it, when I heard that ―pop‖ I looked at it and it went off. Of course
I had all this white stuff on my face and everything, and I got shrapnel in my face and
then I got up and moved out and a guy grabbed me and he thought I had lost my buttons.
35:06 I must have looked pretty bad with that white stuff on my face and blood all over.
He threw me down and he told me—I forget, he was trying to help me or something, but I
kept saying, ―no, no, I got to get back and tell the Captain‖, so there I laid and I was
pretty dazed, I guess because I forgot a lot of it, but I know when they took me back to go
onto a hospital ship, and they took me down to where we landed there were dead Marines
all over. They were piled up and you had to step over them, and you heard crying and
you heard yelling ―Corpsman‖, ―Corpsman‖ and guys screaming and these kids crying,
and, of course, Marines cry, but you would cry too if you lost your leg or your buddy
died in your arms. 36:14 You had to step over all these dead Marines and they were just
15
�piled one on top of another. The Japs really knew they knew they could have attacked
and pushed us right back because it was complete chaos, nobody knew what they were
doing, and when the tanks came in they couldn’t go because of the lava rock. They took
me out on the hospital ship, but like I told my son, I can’t remember anything about the
hospital ship, but he said, they probably had me doped up and maybe they did, I just
can’t—the only thing I remember is when the flag went up on Iwo Jima, all the ship, they
blew their horns and they were really blowing their horns and all that. 37:12 They put
me on this hospital ship, but I don’t remember anything about it. They took me back to
Saipan to a hospital and I don’t know how long I was there. Then they took me to
Hawaii, to a hospital in Hawaii. Well, I had all this shrapnel in my face and I had some
in my eye, so the doctor said he had to operate on my eye. I can still see it today, they
deaden it, of course, but I was conscious and I can still see that knife, it was bent like
that, and I can still—they had to go in, and he explained what they were going to do.
38:18 They cut my eye and they had to make a hole so they could use a magnet to pull
the metal out of my eye, and jeez it felt like they pulled my whole dang eye out. So, they
had had to pull the skin down over that hole and put two stitches in each side so it would
grow over. Then they put me in the ward and I laid flat on my back there for thirty some
days. They had sand bags on both sides of my head and I never got so sick of Hawaiian
music in all of my life. 39:01 Of course they were trying to build up your morale and
they put those earphones on and played and played that Hawaiian music until I thought
geese, and then these red cross, these women, they had to feed me because I had to lay
there with those sandbags on my head and they would tell me what they had for dinner
that day, or supper, what it was and this one day this woman was telling me and she said
16
�they had spinach and I said, ―don’t give me any spinach‖, holy smoke, I’ll never forget
the poor woman she’s trying to build up my morale and asking me about what I did and
all about my girlfriend and she gave me a mouthful of spinach and I said, ―ugh‖, and I
threw that out. That poor woman, you should have heard her and seen her, she was so
sorry, she was begging me to forgive her, but that was kind of funny. 40:15 I laid there
over thirty days. Well they give you a shot and I don’t know how many days, I guess it
was Penicillin, first they give it in this shoulder and then they do it in the other shoulder
and finally it got so hard they started giving it in my butt. After that they—I laid there
thirty-one days or something and they took me in—they had to take the stitches out, the
doctor had to take the stitches out and the doctor told me that when I got older I would
lose control of my eye and it was going to just roll around, but thank god that never
happened. Then they took those stitches out and I was there for quite a while. I was in
the hospital, I guess, for over nine months. 41:07 Then they took me back to Farragut,
Idaho, to the hospital up in Farragut, Idaho and I was in the hospital in Farragut, Idaho
and that’s when the war was over. Well, all these guys were celebrating, but we just had
a little old town that wasn’t as big as Wyoming. We went to town, but there were only
one or two bars in it, a few grocery stores and a gas station or something.
Interviewer: Now after those first thirty days, those first thirty days that you were
in the hospital there, were your arms and legs restrained too? You said your head
was between sandbags.
No
Interviewer: So you could move your hands and that?
17
�Yes, I could move my hands, but later in life I had something wrong with my knee and
this doctor x-rayed my side here and he said, ―boy, when you got shot by that shotgun it
sure left a lot of pellets in your leg‖, and I said, ―I never got shot by a shotgun, that’s the
metal from a grenade‖, so I still got it in my leg, but it never did bother me. 42:24 The
slivers they took out of my face, they would just pick it out and it was just small slivers,
the same as what was in my eye, but I lost the fluid behind my eye and that’s why I have
bad eyesight here. So, they shipped me up to that hospital and I was there, I don’t know
how long, but it was too long anyway. After that I still had time to do because I had
signed over—the war was over. 42:59
Interviewer: When did you re-enlist? Was it before you went to Iwo Jima?
Well, before, when we were in Saipan they came and said that anybody whose time was
up within six months could re-enlist and you could get that, I think it was four hundred
dollars. Did I tell you that already?
Interviewer: No, not on camera.
Well, you could re-enlist and you could get four hundred dollars, I think it was. I thought
that is I was going to get killed my folks might as well have that, so I reenlisted and, of
course, in that six months after the war was over I still had eighteen months to do, which
I wasn’t really sorry. Then they took me back to San Diego, but then they needed guards
now at Norfolk, Virginia, so they sent me down to Norfolk, Virginia and I was a guard
there on a naval base. 44:05 I was there until my time was up and then they sent me to
Chicago and I was discharged from Chicago.
Interviewer: What was your experience like in Norfolk? Was that a good base to be
working at?
18
�Oh yeah, I thought I had a good job. First I was a guard there and then they made me the
Colonel’s driver. You had to keep that car all polished and everything like that and you
had to be dressed up all the time. I would pick him up at eight o’clock in the morning
and take him back at five o’clock at night day after day and I had to be always dressed
and sharp and polished and I would sit there in the barracks and wait for him if he called
me. 45:01 That’s when I would go down to the mess hall and the mess sergeant and I
would play cribbage and you can’t imagine how many times we played cribbage. Oh my
gosh, all day long and here I would wait for him and I’d pick him up at five and take him
home. Well, he had back trouble and I would have to take him to the hospital. One time
I took him to the hospital and when he was in the hospital I fell asleep in the car and
when he came out he shook me and woke me up. You are supposed to be there to open
up the car door for him and close it and I got all excited and jammed it into reverse and
backed right into a telephone pole and he had just got done having work done on his back
and I can still hear him, he went ―uugh‖ and I was just shaking, but he didn’t say
anything until the next morning when I picked him up. He said, ―Did you damage the car
yesterday?‖ I said, ―no’, and he was a real good guy. 46:13 I would pick him up there.
I would play baseball for the Marines there and we would play the city league and the
city league asked me to play with them and I don’t want to brag, but I was a pretty good
ball player and the sports writer for the paper called up the Colonel, and they had a
tryout, the Yankees had a minor league club there and this sports writer asked if I could
come down there, and another guy, for a picture. The Colonel said, ―I’m not a Yankee
fan, but you can take a Jeep‖, so he let me drive a jeep down there. 47:12 Of course, I
wasn’t the caliber of that and it didn’t work out. I wasn’t as good as I thought I was, but
19
�then I did my time and when my time was up I went to Chicago. I got separated and it
was over with.
Interviewer: Did they make any effort to encourage you to stay in and become a
lifer?
No, most guys wanted out. When your time comes they came and said, ―Austin, get
packed up, you have to go get separated‖, so I did, but another guy and I did offer the
Marines if they needed any Marines because the old timer was saying how great China
was, so we asked them if they needed anybody in China and they said no. That’s the only
time and I would have reenlisted then, but when he said that, I didn’t, so I got separated.
48:26 Since then I’ve been real fortunate, I got eleven grand children.
Interviewer: Did you come back home once you were discharged?
Yes, I came back home then.
Interviewer: What kind of work did you go into then?
When I got homer my brother and I went in the trucking business and we delivered
refrigerators and stoves. Well, we got caught going to Muskegon without a license and
you can’t go more than six miles from you office, which was our house, without a MSC
license and we got caught going to Muskegon. I said to my brother, ―this is it, we have to
go get a license‖, so we went down to Lansing to get a license and they had a bunch of
lawyers from these big companies and they said they didn’t need another MSC license in
Grand Rapids and we were tow little guys wanting to get a license. 49:32 I said to my
brother, ―I’m not going to that the rest of my life‖, so we gave it up and I went to
Steelcase. I started our in the factory and then I was promoted to the office, to the PIC,
and they promoted me out to shipping and I was a supervisor in shipping and I shipped to
20
�all of our foreign—to Japan, to North Carolina, and to Canada. I did that until I had
thirty-two years at Steelcase and then I retired when I was fifty-nine years old and I’ve
been real fortunate since then to have so many nice grand children and everything. 50:23
they look after me pretty good, so I have no complaints, but like I say, I’m no hero, the
hero’s are the dead ones. That’s my life.
Interviewer: How do you think that whole experience in the Marine Corps wound
up affecting you, aside from the injury, the rest of that experience there, was it a
good one for you or what did you gain from it?
At first when I got out I had trouble because I would see that guy in the hole with me, and
I can still see those guts after sixty some years, I can still see that. 51:17 I was fortunate
that I was strong enough—we got a lot of these kids coming back for Iraq that are
committing suicide and people, a lot of people, kind of look down on them and that, but
until you have been in the war and heard this screaming and hollering and the blood,
nobody can believe what these kids over in Iraq are going through. Over there they don’t
know who the enemy is and we knew out in front of us. Over there, I could be talking to
you and you could go outside and shoot me. They’re going through things that the
average people have no idea and that’s why--I play poker twice a week and I’m not in
favor of Bush and I have some thing that bother me. 52:19 This one day this one guy
said, ―You know you’re talking about the President?‖ I said, ―Isn’t this a great country
that I can stand here and call him names and not be afraid that you’re going to go and tell
somebody?‖ In some other countries they could go and tell them what I said about their
leader and they come and throw me in jail. I said, ―that’s what I fought for, freedom of
21
�speech, and that’s why I’m calling him names‖. Over in Iraq, I just can’t believe what
these kids are going through. 52:57 The average person has no idea.
Interviewer: No they don’t and we have no draft. In Vietnam they had some of the
same thing, but you had the draftees. Eventually you had the public outcry because
of that. All of this is why it’s important that you come in here and tell us what you
saw because it’s a reminder that war is not just a chess game or a ball game, it’s a
really, really nasty business, and they do some terrible things. 53:27
People just don’t realize it that when you hear this screaming and yelling, ―Corpsman,
―Corpsman‖. I’ll never forget seeing this one Sargent, he went running there and his legs
were blown off and he was running on just stumps and he was screaming—I can still see
him running, and, of course, he dropped dead. People just have no idea what they’re
going through today and right now red, white and blue runs through my veins, but I’m
still bitter about him being in Iraq and these guys, what they are going through. You
can’t explain it and nobody can really understand what those kids are going through.
54:19 Those kids are coming back and committing suicide from things they saw and
done, and the average person, just like now, who gives a heck is what I think. I served
my country, so what?
Interviewer: More people care than you might think, and just by you telling your
story and encouraging people to do that, it does get their attention and actually part
of this project includes talking to people who come back from Iraq and Afghanistan
and recording their stories too, so we don’t forget. So, all of this, it’s important for
a lot of the reasons that you just said. I want to thank you for coming in here and
talking to me today.
22
�Well, you know what I think they should do, I think that in school they should start out
every morning they should say the pledge of allegiance. Every morning they should sing
the national anthem. 55:16
How many people actually know the national anthem? We
got away from that and I don’t think today that they really give a hoot about me, or what I
went through. I’m sure, like a guy said to me the other day, and he was an old timer, he
said, ―you know, what do you think the youth of today would do if we were attacked? I
don’t think they would go‖. Well, I don’t think that at all. I think if we were attacked
our youth would join in just like that guy did because in WWII as soon as we were
attacked they lined up to get in there and I have enough faith in my youth that they would
do the same thing, but to go over and fight a was like in Iraq, I don’t know what were
fighting for. 56:15 I can see why the youth of today says ―to heck with it‖, but if
anybody attacked us, I think they would be there.
Interviewer: I work with people of that are all the time and I expect that they
would.
I have faith in our youth because the majority are good people, but they have so many
things that they can get into trouble with today and the percentage is actually small, but
the papers are full of it. I’m toughly convinced that they would defend our country. We
did it for the rite to call our leaders any names we want to. We got a bunch of squirrels in
Washington D.C. that—I won’t go into that, but I’m just a little bitter about--Interviewer: Sometimes we can vote them out of office.
That’s what we should do, I’m an Independent myself, but that’s the sad part, a lot of
Democrats and Republicans, if they put up a jackass, they would vote for them. 57:26
They don’t look at—you know you can’t agree with everybody and I think—I voted
23
�Independent and I voted Republican, and I voted Democrat, and I think you should listen
to the. You can’t agree with everything, but you should balance it out and see which is
the closest. I don’t think we should have two parties myself, but this is why it’s a free
country. In Ottawa County, if you’re a Democrat you better not run because you’re
going to get voted out, but that’s why we fought, for the freedom of speech, the freedom
to vote the way we want, the freedom to call the President or commander a so and so and
not be afraid of somebody coming over the next day and locking you up for calling him a
this and that. 58:32 We have a great country. A great country and I hope our youth of
today—I really, really hope they realize how lucky we are—like out at Grand Valley, you
have students our there that can become doctors, lawyers, school teacher, business
people. They got that freedom and they got it because the kids over there in WWI and
WWII, they fought and they died for the privilege of you being able to grow up to be a
doctor or a lawyer or a teacher or something. I think a lot of them don’t realize, like on
Leno the other day—he has a program on there where they interview people on the street
and they asked this one guy, they said, ―Who did we fight in WWII?‖ 59:31 Here he
was a college student, and he said, ―the French‖. I thought, ―Holy smokes, the French?‖
Then they said, ―Who was President in WWII?‖ He said, ―I don’t know‖, and they
asked, ―When was WWI?‖ One girl said, ―1952‖. I think more of that should be taught
in our schools. 60:00
Like I say, sign the national anthem, because I’m an American
and I love my county, but I think there’s a lot of things that we have a lot of things that
we can improve on.
Interviewer: That’s often going to be the case. Well, it makes for a good story, so
thanks for coming in.
24
�Thank you
25
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
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1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Austin, Robert (Interview transcript and video), 2008
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Austin, Robert
Description
An account of the resource
Robert Austin was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan and grew up on a farm. He enlisted in the Marine Corps in June, 1941 and trained first for the Marine Air Corps and then for the Marine Paratroopers. He eventually was assigned to the 5th Marine Division and was in the first wave of the landing on Iwo Jima. He was wounded soon after the landing and spent the rest of the war in hospitals. He re-enlisted after the war and played on a Marine baseball team prior to being discharged.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.)
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Marine Corps
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
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2008-12-04
Identifier
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AustinRob
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6b39dc5b93caeb729e333efc7de72062.mp4
022c24f414f2cf6704a641816ee619eb
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dc03898d62d9ca9c19992f01d1dae181.pdf
a195a0a3916ffd19408d2ddaf8cd930b
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Howard Bennink
(01:25:02)
(00:09) Introduction:
• Born in Coopersville, Michigan.
• Grew up on an 80-acre farm.
• Attended one year of high school.
(02:45) Before enlisting and depression:
• Remembers being very poor.
• All farm products dropped 50% in price.
• Stayed on farm until he enlisted in the military.
• He also worked on an excelsior plant in Grand Rapids.
• He had no idea where Pearl Harbor was when it was bombed.
• Remembers his mother saying that “Hitler was no good” long before he invaded
Poland.
(08:20) Enlistment:
• Enlisted in Marine Corps.
• Trained at Parrs Island, South Carolina.
• Main thing about the Marine Corps was discipline by marching.
• Received all WWI rifles and clothing.
(12:40) After boot camp:
• Received further training at Camp Lejeune.
• Took a train to San Francisco.
• Trained for six months before leaving the United States.
(14:20) Ship ride to New Zealand:
• Traveled by luxury liner 30 days from San Francisco to Wellington, New
Zealand.
• Many of the men got terrible diarrhea on the ship.
• The ship was never attacked, although there was a submarine warning.
(18:45) Wellington New Zealand:
• Women built camps in New Zealand--male New Zealanders were fighting for
Britain in Africa.
• As soon as they arrived in Wellington, they started reloading the ships for combat
and headed to Guadalcanal in 1942.
(20:25) Guadalcanal:
• Landed on Guadalcanal.
• First offensive United States made against the Japanese.
• Japanese landed on Guadalcanal but failed.
• Served as a rifleman on the front line while on Guadalcanal.
• Living conditions were reasonable.
• Weather conditions were tough, very warm and humid.
(25:37) Australia:
�•
•
Headed for Brisbane, Australia.
Most of the men had malaria after Guadalcanal, causing them to be incredibly
weak.
• As soon as they were on the ship, they drank Quinine for malaria treatment.
• Arrived at a camp in Brisbane around Christmas time.
• Left Brisbane for Melbourne, Australia.
• After arriving in Melbourne, he contracted malaria again and was hospitalized for
four months.
• The hospital was very nice.
• Once discharged from hospital, he was sent to Adelaide, Australia for two weeks.
• He was then sent back to Melbourne where his division lived in a cricket stadium.
(31:10) After Australia:
• Traveled to Goodenough Island for three weeks.
• Then to Finschaefen, New Guinea where they boarded their ships and sailed to
Cape Gloucester, New Britain.
• Received a Silver Star during fighting in Cape Gloucester.
• The weather in Cape Gloucester was horrible; storms and rain the entire time.
• Sent back to the United States after Cape Gloucester, on a thirty-day ship ride.
(32:50) Furlough:
• Sixty-five men were on ship along with sixty-five mental patients from the
military.
• Was able to keep in touch with family and received the Grand Rapids Press while
in Pacific.
• Received a thirty-day furlough after arriving stateside.
• Did not hear about the European theatre much while in Pacific.
(36:30) After Furlough:
• While still stateside, he received his Silver Star at a ceremony and was promoted
to sergeant.
• Trained in the United States and then received more training in Hawaii.
• Did not like Hawaii because of all the volcanic ash and the extremely cold
showers.
• Remained in Hawaii for four months and was then sent to Iwo Jima by ship.
(46:19) Iwo Jima:
• Remained on the island for three weeks until he was shot in the shoulder.
• Most of the men around him were shot in the head and killed instantly.
• The shot he received missed his carotid artery, grazed his spinal cord and went
through his back.
• As four men were carrying him on a stretcher, one was shot through the head.
• After waiting for the Japanese fire to subside, he was taken to a Marine hospital.
• He left Iwo Jima on a hospital ship to Guam, and then by plane to a military
hospital in Hawaii where he had surgery.
• He was then flown to Oakland, California.
(57:53) Atomic Bomb:
• Still recovering in a hospital in Great Lakes, Illinois when the bombs were
dropped.
�• Was relieved when they dropped the atomic bombs.
(58:35) After Service:
• Could only whisper after the service due to his injuries.
• Received the 52/20 plan; 20 dollars every week for 52 weeks.
• Worked as a barber for forty years in Grand Haven, Michigan.
• Since retirement, he helps with landscaping work at his church and is currently on
a one man mission to prevent overpopulation in the world.
• He believes that overpopulation caused World War II.
• His family has already compiled a written personal history of his service.
�,
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FOREWORD
In June 1994, on our way back from Sugar- Mountain, N.C., our
grandson, Brent, then nine years old, spoke from the middle seat
of the mini-van, "Grandpa, you were a Marine in the war, right?
Did you have to shoot anyone?" Later he asked, "How far away
were they?"
On February 19, 1995, fifty years after the Marines landed
on Iwo Jima, Howard and I attended a memorial program in
Kalamazoo.
It was what the Navy veterans remembered and what the
Marine veterans didn't say that impressed m~.
It was after our family doctor asked Howard why he was
connected to the Veterans Administration and had sent for his
medical records that I began to think of writing.
Then in July of 1995, at a Guadalcanal Veterans reunion in
Frankenmuth, Michigan, we met a man who was writing about his
father, _an army doctor, who had worked on Guadalcanal. He hoped
to meet-someone who remembered him and the hospital there. Of
course, when the Marines were there, there wasn't any hospital
and probably no doctor either.
Finally, it was the radio/television cornrnentatorsand the
newspaper editors and the critics, who weren't there but
expressed their opinions that Pres~dent Truman should not have
authorized the dropping of the atomic bomb, even if we had to
invade Japan.
The men who carne back alive had neglected to tell how it
was!
In-August, 1995, I began to write as Howard told me about
his experiences.
Elizabeth L. Bennink
1
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When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941,
Howard was living at horne with his parents, Nancy and Harm
Bennink, and working in a factory in Grand Rapids. He was
nineteen years old.
At the suggestion of a fellow worker, that he consider the
Marines, he dropped in at a recruiting office in Grand Rapids.
He didn't know any Marines personally and didn't know much about
the Corps either. Most people in this area joined the Navy, but
on January 6, 1942, he became a United States Marine.
January 6, 1942 was a cold, stormy Monday. His father and.
mother had driven him. to Grand Rapids. The newspaper article
which Nancy' saved says that he was one of 23 young men ~ho were
instructed by Staff Sergeant Lloyd Beattie. Fifteen 6f the men
were from Grand Rapids and the remainder were from outlying
areas. The picture shows the young men wearing suits, ~ies,
overcoats and hats. Howard had not met any of them before.
The group traveled to Detroit by Greyhound bus. He was
given a physical examination which he passed in spite of "a
displaced septal cartilage to the left, and old fracture of the
nose and second degree flat feet". Howard "Bennick" was 73 1/4"
tall and weighed 158 Ibs. His vision measured 20/20 bil~terally.
His hearing was 15/15 in both ears. His chest measured ~4" at
expiration and 38 1/2" at inspiration.
Pulse was 80 before
exercise, 98 after exercise and 82 after rest. His blood
pressure was 136/88. He had blond hair, was blue eyed and had a
ruddy complexion. Actually, it was his second examination. The
recruiting officer in Grand Rapids had examined his teeth and
asked if he had, or had ever had venereal diseases.
Howard was sworn in after the physical. His serial number
was 3 5 3 6 5 8. They spent the night in Detroit.
The next
morning, they left by train, a stearn engine coach for Beaufort,
South Carolina. A camp bus took them to Parris Island and boot
camp.
The weather was milder in South Carolina.
It was 5'0 - 60
degrees during the day and a cool 30 degrees at night. They
lived in Quonset huts which housed 12 - 20 men. They slept on
steel bunks and marched to the mess hall for meals.
They got up
in the dark.
Back in Michigan, father Harm and brother-in-law John Dyke
had put Howard's 1936, gray, Tudor Ford up on blocks in Aunt
Altha Fitch's garage on Madison St. in Grand Rapids. This was
Howard's second car. His first was a 1927 Chevy that he bought
when he was sixteen. It cost $60.00. The Ford cost $250.00 in
1940.
It was at Parris Island that they were given their initial
wardrobe:
Dungarees - pants and jackets
Shoes - dress and boon dockers
Dress uniform - greens and khaki
Caps
Socks
Sweatshirts
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Two blankets
Skivie shirts
Leather belt with a brass buckle
Eight quart pail
Six inch scrub brush
Safety razor
Bar of soap
Toothbrush and toothpaste
The first three weeks were taken up, mostly, by close order
drill. The D.I. (Drill Instructor) was Cpl. Montplacer.
It was
the Platoon Sgt. that taught them how to make up their bunks and
scrub floors.
Howard says that he had no complaints in regard to
treatment.
The second three weeks were spent on the rifle range, where
they lived in tents and ate rations (16 oz. cans of pork and
beans, stew, and hash). The tents held six people. They slept
on cots with a mattress.
It was cold at night and even snowed
once.
.
His closest associates in Boot Camp were probably Harold
DeHaan from Grand Rapids and Paul Gammage from Ionia.
Howard also remembers getting two haircuts during Boot Camp.
He remembers too, how they craved sweets. They were allowed to
buy one candy bar at the P.X. during the six weeks.
Their first move was to Camp LeJeune, New River, North
Carolina. According to the book "The Old Breed", a history of
the First Marine Division in World War II by George McMillian,
Camp LeJeune was 111,710 acres of newly bought land at New River,
N.C.
"111,710 acres of water, coast:al swamp and plain, thereto
fore inhabited largely by sandflies, ticks, chiggers and snakes".'
If I interpret the book correctly, until February 1, 1941,
the Marines, all of them, were the First Brigade which grew in
number when the organized reserves were called up in the fall of
1940. Quantico, the horne of the Brigade was now too small so the:
land was bought at New River. The date, August, 1941, is
mentioned as the time the First Division set up at New River.
By December 7, 1941, the Division was still small; 518
officers and 6,871 men. By the spring of 1942 (April), it had
grown to 15,000 men. The average age was probably not quite 20
years old and about 90% of them had enlisted since Pearl Harbor.
The First Marine Division included the First Marine
Regiment, the Fifth Marine Regiment, the Seventh Marine Regiment
and the Eleventh Marine Regiment.
Howard was in the First Marine Regiment, Third Battalion,
'I' Company, Third Platoon, Fourth Squad.
Cpl. Morino was the Squad Leader, Sgt. Sylvester was the
Platoon Sergeant, and Lt. Weiss was the Platoon Officer.
The men had been issued rifles at Parris Island, a bolt
action Springfield. They took good care of it. They carried it
everywhere except on liberty.
It was even in the bunk with them
at night. They memorized the serial number, but now 50+ years
later, Howard can only remember the first two numbers, 1 and 5.
Howard's discharge papers say that he quallified with the
Bayonet, 12 February, 1942 and Special Military Qualification,
Scout - Sniper.
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�They lived in Quonset huts that looked new.
There were
eight bunks on each side. The floor was wood and there were
windows.
Their Sgt. talked a lot about combat but Howard doesn't
think that he really knew what he was talking about.
As a part of their training, they crawled across 40 acres on
their bellies. During breaks, the Platoon Sgt. would say that
the smoking lamp was lit.
That meant that the men could smoke.
Howard had started to smoke on his way to Detroit from Grand
Rapids.
The obstacle course at Camp LeJeune did not amount to much,
but one day the company hiked to the ocean. The bottom was
covered with oysters and everyone had cut feet after they bathed
nude in the salt water.
The camp had a parachute group. Those men never walked,
they always ran.
They also had a Division Band. It practiced out under the
trees and sounded good.
On March 12, 1942, Howard was hospitalized with German
Measles. The hospital had bunks stacked two or three high. A
corpsman was in charge. Howard returned to duty on March 16,
1942.
Howard remembers going on liberty twice. They went to
Jacksonville where he had a couple"beers and caught a bus back to
camp.
They also went to New Berne once. There wasn't much to do
there either, but there was a tattoo parlor and Howard received
the small tattoo on his forearm which says U S M C - 1942.
They also took a bus trip to Cherry Point about 15 or more
miles away.
Brick buildings were being erected for the Air
Force.
While at Camp LeJeune, Howard was promoted to a Private
First Class.
He is not positive, but he thinks that he got a
raise of $6.00, from $18.00 to $24.00 a month.
4
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Major General A. A. Vandegrift assumed command of the First
Marine Division from Major General Philip Torrey on March 23,
1942.
In mid April, a plan called Lone Wolf arrived at New River,
ordering the Division to Wellington, New Zealand at the earliest
possible moment.
It was said that Vandegrift thought that the
Division had not yet attained a satisfactory state of readiness
for combat, but he was assured that the Division would not be
expected to fight before January 1, 1943.
An advance party of officers was dispatched to select a
site. They found it on North Islarid, 35 miles from Wellington .
."The bush covered gorges' and ravines of the Tararu Moun tains are
in "spitting" distance".
The camp was built with green lumber by
New Zealand women.
New Zealand was a part of Great Britain which
had been at war since 1940. Both labor and supplies were
limited.
By the end of April, the Division was ready to move (two
weeks after the notice). On May 1, 1942, the troops went aboard
trains at New River.
Howard says their clothing and personal
items were put into sea bags and thrown in a pile.
It was the
last time he saw them. He presumed that the ship carrying them
had been sunk. At that point in time, combat loading was
considered pointless and time consuming, so personnel and gear
went into separate ships.
.
The Wakefield with General Vandegrift aboard left from
Norfolk, Virginia on May 20, through the submarine menaced
Atlantic and the Panama Canal.
The men left by train for the Pacific Coast.
Before leaving
they were told not to write letters or make any contacts.
The
train was a Pullman with sleepers and diners. They carried their
rifles and packs. The train zigzagged to San Francisco. They
were told that they crossed the Royal Gorge but Howard does not
remember seeing it.
The last night on the train, they were told to set their
boon-dockers out. Boon-dockers were their rough leather boots
which were never polished, but the next morning the porter had
them shiny. The men collected for a tip.
When they got down to the docks and the ship, it was being
unloaded of boulders. The pile of rocks was still on the docks
when the ship sailed.
The ship was the Ericsson, which was a German luxury liner
that had been seized in the New York Harbor after the war began.
It was a beautiful ship, privately owned and leased to the
Government.
Personnel were civilians.
It had two swimming pools
and beautiful paintings and wood carvings.
Howard thought that
perhaps the staterooms had been torn out because they slept on
bunks, six high.
He had no idea what part of the ship that they
were in.
They lived aboard for a week or more before sailing.
During
this time Howard rented a horse, a big, long legged one, and rode
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along the hills. '[he horse could not be ridden or led off the
main trail.
He remembers being on guard duty and needed his
overcoat.
Howard is not sure when they left San Francisco.
His
discharge papers say, "Asiatic Pacific Area, 22 June, 1942."
Howard does not remember the dining room, but he remembers
walking down the steps with rotten food on the tray.
It seems
that the refrigeration was not functioning properly.
Here after,
for the remaining three weeks, the men existed on Planters
peanuts and Pepsi Cola in glass bottles which had replac~d the
water in the pools.
The men had to purchase the nuts and cola.
Because of th~ illness arid inadequate diet, according to the
book, the men lost as much as 16 pounds enroute.
TheFirst
Marine Division was living up to their nick-name the Raggedy Ass
Marines.
Howard does not remember any big guns on the ship.
They
were not part of a convoy, and crossed the ocean alone.
They
were not told of their destination until they were at sea.
During the day porpoise followed the bow of the ship.
At night,
there were lots of lights in the water.
They were told that it
was phosphorous.
In Mother Nancy's scrapbook is a small card which says:
Piic ; Howard Bennink was duly initiated into the Solemn
Mysteries of the Deep. 'Having crossed the Equator July
1, 1942.
Aboard the R.S. John Ericsson during W.W.II.
Davey Jones - His Majesty's Scribe
Neptune Rex - Ruler of the Raging Main
The initiation ceremony did not take place as submarines were
sighted, but they were in line to be doused with water and get "a
slap on the ass with a paddle."
The trip lasted 30 days. Much of this time, they read.
On June 26, while the Ericsson was still on the high seas,
General Vandegrift was told that the Marines would invade, occupy
and defend Guadalcanal, Florida and Santa Cruz Islands and that
D. Day would be August 1, 1942. Vandegrift was upset, his
Marines would not arrive until July 11th, after 30 days of
inactivity.
In addition no planning had been done and the only
information available were naval charts which were made in 1910.
It was obvious why Douglas MacArthur and his team had not done
well in his part of the war.
D. Day was moved to August 7, still not much time to gather
information, plan, study, load 31 transports and cargo carriers,
embark 20,000 men and 60 days of supplies, rendezvous with the
Navy and conduct a set of joint rehearsal exercises.
One of the first orders to come down, was to leave 1/3 of
the supplies behind.
It was winter in New Zealand with cold driving rain.
Food
supplies melted on the docks as they were unloaded from one ship
and loaded on another, sometimes at the same time.
Howard said that they lived aboard ship, but did walk into
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the hills once.
On July 25, 1942, Howard became 20 years old.
Koro Island in the Figi's was selected for pre-invasion
maneuvers.
It was about half way between New Zealand and
Guadalcanal, 'but it was not like Guadalcanal.
It was a coral
island. After several landing vessels were wrecked attempting to
land, the practice was called off. The units spent their days,
July 28-31, riding up to the reef and back.
The convoy left Koro on July 31. Howard was aboard the
McCawley.
As they left, the men were told where ~hey were going. The
men wondered, "Where the hell G~adalcanal was and why were they
going there?" The men were uptight.
It was the unknown.
It was
to be the first offensive battle of the Pacific War.
"We never
knew what the hell we were getti,ng in to." The officers who
didn't know either, said that it was safer than at home on the
highways. Howard remembers sharpening the bayonet to kill Japs
but ended up using it to crack green coconuts to stay alive.
The convoy was almost all of the effective striking force of
the Navy in the Pacific.
It consisted of three carriers:
the
Saratoga, Enterprise and the Wasp; the battleship, North
Carolina; and some cruisers and destroyers.
Guadalcanal was the first o:ffensive waged against the
Japanese in W.W.II. The Japs had humiliated us at Pearl Harbor
and we were helpless in our attempts to aid the men of Corregidor
and the Bataan March. We had begun to think the Japanese were
supermen.
Howard remembers the trip on the McCawley to Guadalcanal.
They ate, slept or lay dreaming on the deck.
At daylight on August 7, 1942, the cruisers began shore
bombardment. At 0647, under the cover of the shore bombardment
and the planes from the carriers, the men began to go over the
side and down the cargo nets into Higgins boats under full pack.
The backpack contained the following:
Mess gear
Razor - bar'of soap
Towel
Blanket
Poncho
1/2 of a pup tent
Brush (which most of the men threw away)
Food (if you had any)
A shovel hung on the back of the pack.
You thought of your pack as your horne and your kitchen. You used
it all.
You carried your rifle and wore a cartridge belt. Attached
to it was a canteen full of water, a med pack in a metal can with
sterile gauze and yellow vaseline gauze strips 4"x6" in a canvas
pouch, ammo, and a bayonet inside a scabbard.
They headed into the beach and landed on schedule, in fact,
two minutes early, at 0908.
They jumped over the side of the
Higgins boats and into water waist high and waded in, carrying
their packs and rifle. The beach was sandy, then grassy, then
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coconut trees with lots of nuts on the ground. Here they
stopped- "Where were the Japs?" They opened a few coconuts with
their knives. Howard cut his finger.
They headed for the jungle, 200 men single file.
The vines
and branches had been chopped for a path.
By perhaps 3 p.m., they were out of water. The temperature
was about 100 degrees.
If they had anything to eat it was
probably a sort of chocolate bar. Sometime later" they crossed a
creek. They filled their canteens and dropped the pill in it.
By nightfall, they were out of water again and had to do without.
That night, they.slept op the rotten, stinky, black dirt on
the trail. The jungle was noisy and they were scared. ,Their
lieutenant was bitten by a spider. They heard him scream and
moan. They were told that he died, but Howard did not see him.
When morning came, the Marines were proud. Although there
was a lot of trigger-fingering, no one had fired. ' That was a
sign of good training. The Japs couldn't find them.
They continued on until the officers got orders to abandon
the original orders, because theyhad the wrong information.
There was no grassy knoll. There was only more jungle.
By the time Howard's Company reached the beacp, the ships
had already left, without unloading supplies. They had left
before dawn the day after the invasion. It was said that General
Vandegrift could not make his sen{or officers realize the
disastrous effect.
Howard's Company of 200 men spent the next two weeks on the
beach guarding against Japanese attacks. The times are only
estimates, He had no watch, calendar or any means of knowing
other than sun-ups and sundowns.
When they arrived on the beach, other Marines were walking
by with Japanese souvenirs. A Japanese construction unit was
discovered. They were building a large straw roofed warehouse,
part of which would be used as a mess hall.
It had canned fruit,
lots of rice, clothing and glass bottles of saki . . It was open
for the first two days and everyone ate well. Then it was
declared "off limits" and guarded.
It was here that Howard saw his first live Japs, in the
stockade. Almost all were laborers and engineers.
Some were
Koreans.
The two weeks on the beach were not bad and he remembers
certain things that happened:
During daylight hours, a Jap submarine out in the ocean
would surface and fire.
Our 1/2 tracks would tear down to the
beach and fire at the sub but it was just out of range.
One time the Japanese Commander came in too close, it may
have been hit, but it submerged in a hurry.
He saw Zeros fly at treetop heights. Once they saw a plane
with a star (U.S.) followed by a Zero and watched it go out of
sight.
They watched dog fights over the water.
Sometimes they
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could see the pilot through the canopy.
Howard saw the first u.s. planes corne in at treetop level.
The Marines were so surprised that they almost shot at them.
The Marines noticed that supply ships were not corning in.
This was bad.
They saw flashes, lots of them, out over the ocean at night.
The flashes were followed about seven seconds later by rumbles.
We know now that we lost the Quincy, Vincennes, Astoria and the
Chicago.
The Canberra was so badly damaged that it had to be
sunk. All 'together, we lost four cruisers and a destroyer was
damaged.
The Japs did not lose any and only two were damaged.
This is now called the Battle of Savo Island.
When the word got around that the Navy had left, the Marines
learned the feeling of expendability, and that they would
probably never get off the island alive.
Then the Division went on short rations, two meals a day of
captured Japanese food (fish heads and rice) .
The air raids started and we had no way to oppose them.
They would corne in high, in formation, and drop a few bombs.
About midnight, a lone plane would fly overhead, drop a bomb
and leave and then another would repeat the act.
The Marines
called this harassment, Wash Machine Charlie.
There was talk about Tokyq Rose, but Howard said that he
never heard her. He didn't know anyone who had a radio.
The Japs landed 900 men, one mile from where the Marines
were trying to hold the airfield. They did not have enough men
and that left some places in the perimeter unmanned. The air
strip was about 1/2 mile from the beach area. The battle started
about 0100.
Howard's Company was ordered to Right face, that is,
to face the Japs instead of the ocean. A company has about 200
men. The Japs had lots of ammo.
If they had broken through, it
would have been bad, but they never did. The line had held.
At daylight, the battle was over and Howard's Company moved
forward and exchanged position. They walked through lots of dead
men (the Battle of Tenaru), and upstream about a mile and set up
a position of defense. This was right at the edge of a swamp and
at the end of a runway for fighter planes.
'I' Company was in
this position for a long time, maybe weeks. Rations of rice and
coconuts were short. One day their Lieutenant got a can of Spam,
about a 4 pound can. He cut it into 30 pieces and shared.
It
tasted so good!
During this time, they saw Japanese bombers, silver colored,
two motors, so high than they looked to be the size of a quart
jar. Then they saw our fighter planes above them, about the size
of a fist.
They seemed directly overhead. The Marines did not
hear the guns, but watched the bombers fallout of formation and
spiral down. At least seven or eight fell, but they must have
fallen into the jungle. They did not see any fires or see any
fighters fall.
Although the Company was less than 1/2 mile from the
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airfield, no bombs ever landed near the Company.
The dog fights were uneven. Usually five of ours to 20 - 25
of theirs but we were desperate.
Dates and events were hazy as the Marines had no way of
measuring time.
Somehow, sometimes they moved to the other side
of the airstrip and the Company would go on patrol.
"We were ambushed on the Matamikau River. Our Lt. Weiss was
paralyzed (still living today)." Bullets zipped around Howard
but he was not hurt. The Company had a set of twins from Niagara
Falls, one was killed and the other went psycho.
"Somehow, we
got away." But Howard has forgotten how they managed to do it.
Another Company carne into the area and cleaned it up.
Then 'I'
Company went into the same area and set up a defense position on
the river for perhaps days or weeks. Usually, they went on
patrol in front of the lines with about 20 men.
It was in this area than their Company was in battle. At
sunset on October 21, the Japanese attacked with 9 - 18 ton
tanks. Only one broke through. Howard's Company was supported
by 2 - 1/2 tracks, 2 - 37rnm. guns, 2 - 50 caliber machine guns,
besides the rifle men and light machine guns. The next morning
seven Jap tanks were burning and when they walked across the
river, they found lots of dead men (estimated 600). One man in
Howard's squad lost a leg.
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Supplies began to corne in by the last of the second month,
but Howard was not in a position to see the ships.
By September, Malaria was taking it's toll.
Sometime in
September it caught Howard. He remembers being in a big valley
and the hospital was at the top of a hill. He was so sick and
weak that he still wonders how he was able to crawl to the top.
The hospital was a tent with the sides rolled up. He was given
some liquid to drink which he promptly vomited. The act earned
him a place under the canvas for a few days. They laid on their
blankets on the ground. He does not remember being seen by a
doctor, but he was given some pills. This is recorded on his
medical history. The entry reads: 9/42 U.S.N.H. - Field
Hospital Guadalcanal - Dysentery - Malaria.
The average wight loss at this time was about 20 pounds per
man.
In October, 1,941 cases of malaria were reported. This
increased the average weight loss to 60 to 70 pounds.
In November, a naval battle claimed two more cruisers and
four destroyers. Two cruisers and three destroyers were also
damaged.
The marines were in bad shape. Their clothes and shoes were
worn to rags. They had had no shelter in four months. Their
green blankets were white with the eggs of the big blue flies.
Summer was corning on and it was hot, about 107 degrees. The
Marines were tired and sick. They felt cornered and just
existed.
The Japanese were still landing at will, but after going
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through the jungle, they too were starved and sick.
That the Marines held under these conditions was a wonder
and perhaps would not have, except for the fact they knew what
would happen to them if they were captured.
Every man kept a
grenade to kill himself.
Then one day the Army marched by.
"When they saw us ,they
asked where the Japs were - We, answered 'keep walking'."
In November, the Marines had 3,213 cases of malaria with
secondary anemia and to keep and maintain a combat line, each man
was given 20 grains of quinine daily.
On December 9, 1942, General Vandegrift turned over the
,command to General Patch,and the 2nd Marine Division.
Two days
later the 1st Division left the island.
An inscription in the cemetery read:
An whep he goes to Heaven to St. Peter, he'll tell
another Marine reporting, Sir I've served my time in
Hell.
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This account is the memories of a 73 year old veteran that
reaches back over 50 years. He is not a bitter man nor a
particularly proud man, but he was a boy who became a man at
nineteen by living through hell.
The United States was not prepared for war when Pearl Harbor
was attacked and even after, it was decided to put the war in
Europe first.
A Division is considered to have at least 15,000 men or
maybe a few more, but in December of 1941, it had 518 officers
and 6,871 men (enlisted men). The slack was made up with young
enlistees. On departure for the Pacific, the average age of 90%
was under 20 years of age.
"
The area that would become known as Camp LeJeune was
purchased in May, 1941 and these men were the builders.
Throughout the war, the First Division was first.and as good as
the men themselves could make it. Time and materials were always
scarce.
In retrospect, if there was any planning for Guadalcanal, it
was bad. General MacArthur was an Army man, who no doubt felt
that the Marines were expendable. The services were
uncoordinated. The Navy had been decimated in t~e Pacific and
the Army was attempting defense after bitter defeats. The
Marines were without support. They were dropped :off and
abandoned, to live off the lay of the land. Here, were no
reporters, no USO's, no Red Cross, no Salvation Army, no PX, no
mess halls, no food or shelter. There were only young men who
were sick, exhausted, and starved, trying to survive and they
did!
Some time later a personnel officer would say, "They were a
strange breed, this bunch that came in after Pearl Harbor. Many
of them, we discover, were officer caliber and could easily have
gained that rank if they hadn't volunteered. There's no doubt
about it but they wanted to fight.
If we resented them at New
River ... well, we learned better at the 'Canal."
Howard became a Corporal on Guadalcanal, but he's not sure
when.
Sometime, somewhere, he was given a paper to that effect.
They left the island on Navy manned boats from the same
beach that they landed on. They were taken out to the American
Legion. Howard was able to climb the landing net (cargo net) up
to the deck, but could not make it over the railing. The Navy
men took his rifle from him and pulled him over.
He cannot remember anything more. He cannot remember what he
ate or where he slept. Someone gave them liquid quinine.
The Marines were not told where they were going and they
didn't care. Later they were told that MacArthur wanted them to
go back into combat in New Guinea but the Navy said, "No way,
they are too sick."
They went instead to Brisbane, Australia. Howard remembers
the docks were up river with cow pastures on each side. They
lived in tents and slept on cots. There was even a mess hall and
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they sat at tables. They must have spent Christmas here, but
Howard does not remember.
There were lots of mosquitos at Bisbane, but the main reason
for leaving after a couple weeks was because the men were ill and
there were no' hospitals nearby.
The Division's casualties were:
621 killed in action; 1,517
wounded in action; and 5,601 cases of malaria.
The Japanese had 40,000 troops ashore. They evacuated about
10,000; 30,000 died on the island.
The Reinforced 1st Division received the Presidential Unit
Citation.
On the way to Brisbane, Twining, a full Colonel and
operations officer designed a shoulder patch.
It had a red
number one on a blue field surrounded by the stars of the
Southern Cross. The word Guadalcanal in white ran the length of
the #1.
The men designed a medal of their own.
They called it the
George Medal to express their own sentiments, "Let George Do It".
One side had an arm with Navy stripes dropping a hot potato into
a helmet held by a tired Marine. The other side pictured the
rear view of a cow with a whirring electric fan.
This
illustrated a well used Marine phrase, "when the shit hits the
fan. "
Howard says the Marines must have moved to Melbourne by
ship, because he does not remember seeing much of anything at
Bisbane.
Melbourne would have been "heaven" if they had been well,
but most of the men were sick. They set up camp on the cricket
grounds, under the roofed section. Bunks, two high were set on
the tiered seats, two legs on the higher seats and two legs on
the lower seats or steps. Here again they lived like Marines.
Their pants and shirts were rolled up and put "in the sack" while
they slept in their skivvies. The next morning, the clothes were
warm and wrinkle free, almost.
Howard was sick. He remembers seeing' an Italian doctor and
his medical reGord shows entries on 1-8-43 and 1-20-43 at the
U.S. 4th General Hospital in Melbourne, Australia. On 1-25-43,
there is a diagnosis of Tertian Malaria. On 2-7-43, he was
discharged to duty, under follow-up.
On 2-25-95, he was admitted
with jaundice, acute infective and remained hospitalized until
6-11-43.
The hospital was a new brick building, owned by the
Australians and leased to the U.S. Army.
It was six stories high
with a roof garden and balconies. Howard was in a twenty bed
ward.
It had both showers and tubs. The food was good, but he
couldn't eat. The care was good, given by U.S. Army nurses. He
was treated with pills.
Howard continued to get more sick with chills, fever,
jaundice and pain. At some time he developed carbuncles on the
back of his neck, which was extremely painful. Antibiotics were
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not yet in use.
One day when the doctor visited, he asked Howard how he
felt.
He answered that he was so sleepy and that's when things
changed.
He was moved into a private room with private duty
nurses and was given plasma, I.V. This was continued until he
was able to· drink.
His friend, DeHaan, from Grand Rapids visited him during
this time.
He came into the room, left and returned, asking if
he was Corporal Bennink.
He didn't recognize Howard.
Dawson from his platoon was also in the hospital
recuperating from a c Lr cumc i s i.on as well as malaria.
As Howard improved, the nurses would push him in his bed out
on the balcony.
Others, less ill, made use of the roof gardens,
even entertaining Aussie girl friends, until it was declared "off
bounds" .
Sometime during June, the two carbuncles were lanced and
allowed to drain.
He was still jaundiced.
He was discharged on 6-11-43 and returned to the cricket
grounds.
Melbourne became a symbol of Civilization, the- men had left
a home.
It ~as a city of friendly people. The newspaper called
the Marines the "Saviours of Australia". The songs "Mairzy
Doats'" and ":Thanks for the Memories" came from this era.
It was 'in Melbourne, that Howard met Nancy Raferty.
Dawson,
from Alabama, introduced her to him. He remembers going to a
park where there was a Triumph car show.
They went to a theater
and saw "Gone With The Wind".
Howard and Dawson were invited to
Nancy's home· for a lamb dinner.
They lived in the suburbs.
Howard remembers the steak and egg breakfasts at the U.S.D. and
the Pub, Young and Jackson, that had nude paintings hung high on
the wall.
A recent visitor says that it is still there and the
paintings are intact.
He was still in Melbourne when his five months of back pay
caught up with him.
It was about $400.00.
It was a good time.
No one wanted to work and that included
the officers, Many of the men had girlfriends and spent little
time in camp.
There was a time that Howard in a group of about eight men
went to sniper school. They were taken about 20 miles from camp,
up in the hills.
They were to get back to camp in five days and
they did.
They slept out every night, except one when they broke
into a school house with a fireplace.
Before they left the next
morning, they cut and hauled wood to replaced what they used.
Howard remembers a man in his Platoon (Jackson) who had
scabies.
He kept his fork from his mess kit hung on a nail near
his cot as a scratcher. At mess call, he'd grab his mess kit and
his fork and march to the hall.
Howard never saw him wash the
fork.
Howard became 21, July 25, 1943.
By the fall of 1943, Douglas MacArthur was remembering his
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promise to return to the Philippines. To avoid being bogged down
in New Britain's jungle, he called on the "Jungle Wise Marines"
who were becoming ornery in Melbourne.
It was to be a joint
effort with his 6th Army, but before there was any understanding
between the staffs, he ordered the Marines to Goodenough Island,
2000 miles away. The Division was moved by Liberty ships where
they set up on the open decks. The date was about September 19,
1943.
Goodenough was· a jungle,. but had more hills than
Guadalcanal. Also, the streams seemed clearer. They walked
through native villages that seemed vacant, but the Marines lived
in tents.
There were lots of, mosquitos, so their training
consisted of lots of ditch digging, to drain the swamps. They
loafed when no one was watching.
One day they saw Fuzzy-Wussies erecting a grass roofed
building. They were small, black people and "you could smell
them before you saw them". The odor was caused by whatever they
rubbed on their bodies to repel the insects. They were good
coconut tree climbers and loved to ride on trucks. Both the men
and the women were bare to the waist and wore grass skirts.
The Marines were transferred to Finschhafen a week before D.
Day on LCI's (21), LST's (24) and APD's (10). LCI's carried the
infantry, LST I S carried tanks ,.. trucks and equipment. APD' s
(LCT's) were able to carry one or two tanks and were able to land
up on the beach. This time they were going on Army money.
They were served their Christmas dinner on Finschhafen, but
the turkey neck that Howard got tasted as if it was rotten so he
threw it in the jungle.
They boarded the ship on Christmas Eve.
At 0600, on December 26, 1943, the cruisers and destroyers
opened fire.
Then the bombers flew over. The first unit (3rd
Battalion - Howard's) landed at 0746. They were unopposed.
The
jungle growth extended to the ~each. This was supposed to be a
damp flat, but the men fell into sink holes up to their waists.
This was Cape Gloucester, New Britain. The naturalist's notes of
the 1920's didn't mention this, but the northwest monsoons come
to New Britain in late December and lasted for three months.
1943 was no exception. It started to rain in the afternoon of
December 26th and a "terrific storm struck the Cape Gloucester
area" in the early hours of the 27th. The rains continued for
the next five days. The Marines were soaked and it is said that
they never dried out.
By the first night the Marines had moved to the airport and
set up a line of defense. They stretched barbed wire in the
front and tied tin cans on it. The men were spaced behind it.
Sherman tanks were brought up for the night. The men were wet
and cold and the large amounts of warm exhaust from the engines
felt good, that is, until the Marine standing next to Howard
passed out from carbon monoxide. He recovered.
The next morning, they moved forward.
There was no
�opposition.
One tank got stuck crossing a ditch.
No way could
be found to move it either way so the crew moved to the rear.
The tank was equipped with a 50 caliber machine gun on the
turret.
This was of great interest to the Marines , but as many
times as they tried, they couldn't get it to fire.
That night as before, they set up their defense line and as
before, there was no opposition.
On the 3rd day, they ran 'into lots of machine gun fire.
The
Marines couldn't see them because of the heavy undergrowth, but a
lot of men were getting hit.' Howard jumped on the back end of
the tank and the crew opened a communication door.
"I told them
to fire into the undergrowth as they couldn't see it from the
inside.
Finally, the Battalion Commander, Lt. Col. McKelvy carne
up to see what all the firing was about. 'What's holding you
up?', he asked, and then sawall the dead and wounded men. He
went back and called in 'K' Company (the support" company) with a
platoon of tanks. We followed after 'K' Company."
A newspaper article written by S/Sgt. Joseph L. AlIi, a
combat correspondent wrote an article for the Associated Press:
Cpl. Bennink was in charge of a squad detailed to support
tanks making assault on an enemy strong point. After following
for four miles, they encountered heavy resistance and machine gun
fire caused the tanks' turrets to be closed.
_
According to 1st Lt. Joseph Alessandroni Jr. of
Philadelphia, PA, Cpl. Bennink jumped onto the lead tank,
banged on the turret and guided him to the enemy pill boxes.
"I saw him repeat that very stunt seven or eight times", Lt.
Alessandroni said, "and I know he helped wipe out several other
pill boxes."
Altogether he guided the tanks to 10 or 12 of them.
Some
were occupied and some weren't.
But all of them might have been
and he was exposing himself to heavy machine gun fire every time
he went near one of those tanks.
That sort of work requires real
nerve.
After spotting each pill box, Cpl. Bennink abandoned his
precarious perch, rejoined his squad and after the pill boxes had
been blasted by 75mm fire, helped in the mopping up process with
hand grenades and rifle fire.
Cpl. Bennink, 21, is a veteran of the Guadalcanal Campaign.
He was promoted to his present rank for Meritorious conduct while
on volunteer reconnaissance patrols deep in enemy territory.
Farther on, they saw a block house, half buried in the
ground.
Inside were six or eight Jap officers who had committed
suicide by shooting themselves with rifles.
A hundred yards or so further on they saw a lean-to that
held two trunks, full of Japanese script.
The airport was next.
They counted about a half dozen
planes and not too many Japs.
They crossed the airstrip and set
up defense at the base of the hills.
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Because they were a part of MacArthur's Army, they wore Army
clothing and boots. They were also issued hammocks with mosquito
netting, but without trees, they couldn't hang them up.
It would
have been dangerous to be up off the ground at any rate, so they
laid them on the ground, crawled in, zipped them up and hoped
that the Japs wouldn't come.
On the defense line, they encountered "electrical storms and'
winds, the like of which I never saw again", Howard said, "There
was a 37mm gun about 50 feet away and the balls of fire bounced
allover the gun."
Howard remembered lots of anti-aircraft fire as Wash Machine
~harlie came over every night between two and three a.m.
There
was lots of fire, but he was never hit.
Patrols made up of volunteers left the line and had close
calls. DeHaan from Grand Rapids always liked that.
Howard
didn't volunteer anymore because Lt. Alessandroni told him that
he was going back to the States.
A couple of weeks later, a runner told him to "pack up your
things, you're on your way. II They took two men and one officer
from each Company. They were taken back to the beach by truck
through lots of mud. The LST was waiting for them.
Aboard ship, in his wet, muddy clothes, Howard walked past a
galley window and a voice called out, "Hey Marine, would you like
a cup of Coffee?1I
liThe coffee had canned milk and sugar in it,
and it was the best cup of coffee I ever had in my life. II
The sixty men sailed to Finchhaften. There, they picked up
another LST that took them to Milne Bay, New Guinea. 'They
hitched a ride on an Australian refrigeration ship, that was
hauling meat to the troops.
They slept on deck and ate steak
twice a day.
There were no vegetables, just T-Bone steak. After
three or four days their mouths were sore and they were back in
Brisbane and living in tents.
It was here that Howard met and
talked to u.s. Army men who had been there for two years
IIguarding Australia".
At Brisbane the 60 stayed right in camp, they didn't want to
miss the boat.
One day, they boarded a Liberty ship with 64 other Army,
Navy and Airmen with nervous breakdowns.
The 64 Marines were
supposed to guard them. Howard said that none of them were
violent, so on good days, they brought them up on deck.
On March 1, 1944, they arrived in Camp Elliott, San Diego,
California. Before being given a leave, he was given a physical
and his medical records say that he was physically qualified for
transfer.
Howard remembers that this was the first time they saw
women Marines. As they were being examined for V.D., they asked
the doctor if he also examined the women for V.D.
He responded
by saying yes and that it was called Port Hole Inspection. He
also said that he called the men's examination Short Arm
Inspection.
Howard was given a 15 day leave and a form request for a 15
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day extension which he could fill out and mail to an address in
Washington D.C.
Back.at Cape Gloucester, MacArthur held the 1st Marines
until May 4th and then they went to Pavuvu.
Howard said that Camp Elliott looked good after the jungle.
He was finally out of the rain and dry. He slept in a bunk and
had meals .at the mess hall.
The train that he boarded in Los Angeles was a very dirty
old steam engine. The tunnels and snow sheds were black with
soot and even the coach smelled like it. Howard remembers that
when he got home, his shirt was really dirty.
When ~he train stopped in Reno, he bo~ght a rubber snake for
the kids at home, but his father, Harm had lots of fun with it
and the nephews did a lot of B.B. gun shooting.
He arrived in Grand Rapids, on Sunday night, March 12, 1944.
About a dozen relatives were waiting for him at the station.
Mother Nancy kept a list of people who visited him at home.
Howard remembers that he rode home in the car with his
sister and brother-in law, John Dyke. John was about to be
drafted.
Howard warned him not to get in the Infantry.
"I said,
'Take anything else'." John did get in the infantry and spent
the next Christmas in the Battle of the Bulge in Europe.
Howard's own car was stil~ up on blocks, but Dykes let him
borrow their 1940 Ford several times. He drove it to Grand
Haven, and ,returned home. He used his 5 gas ration stamps to buy
5 gallons of gas.
"Things were pretty dull around here." He
also used his Dad's car. Harm had lots of tractor gas.
He also
had a flat .tire.
Howard said he was almost glad to go back to California. He
was to report to the 2nd Battalion, 5th Marine Division, 27
Regiment at Camp Pendleton.
He had been granted the 15 day extension and it had arrived
while he was at home, and he forgot and left it there. When the
S.P. (Shore Patrol) came through the train, he had only his 15
day furlough pass. He was 13 days overdue. Howard was told to
consider himself under arrest and that they would take him off
the train at Omaha, and they did. He was taken to a recruiting
office and put in a room by himself for several hours and then
let him go. Howard asked him for a written explanation in case
he got back late, but the officer refused saying that if he
hurried, he'd get there in time, and he did.
The 5th Marine Division was activated on Armistice Day 1943
(November 11, 1943). At that time, the 1st Division was at
Goodenough Island, it's advanced staging area in preparation for
Cape Glouchester. The 2nd Division was on it's way to Tarawa.
The 3rd Division was fighting in the jungle swamps of
Bougainville. The 4th Division was in the States, but soon would
leave for the Marshall Islands. The Marine Corps now consisted
of 400,000 men, but the. end was not yet in sight so the 5th
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Division was activated.
It was to be the best trained and best
prepared division to date.
It would be organized with all it's
component units in place (engineers, artillery, medical, etc.).
Squad, platoon, company, battalion and regimental training would
follow in succession, in a detailed plan.
The Division Commander was Major General Keller E. Rockey.
The men came from boot camps San Diego and Parris Island,
training centers of Elliott, LeJeune, Pendleton, Quantico and
ship detachments. But last of all were hundreds of men who were
veterans of earlier Marine campaigns to add combat experience and
practical knowledge. Camp Pendleton was the largest of all the
Marine Corps training cen t.ers ; Complete wi th barracks,
administration buildings, sick bay, theater, post exchange and
athletic facilities with a $25,000 recreation fund!
It even had
a Red Cross unit with 15 recreation rooms.
The train took Howard to Oceanside, about a mile from
Pendleton. He reported to the Sgt. Major at the 2nd Battalion
Head Quarters. Howard promptly asked him for a 72 hour pass.
The Sgt. Major refused saying, "Put your gear away, you just came
back." Howard did not see him again for several weeks p
Howard reported to Sgt. G~bson, the 3rd Platoon Sgt., who
gave him a choice of being a squad leader or a platoon guide.
Howard chose the squad leader,:and he still feels that he made
the right choice.
"They were'decent guys."
Sgt. Graham became the Platoon Guide. He had been a
paratrooper until that unit was disbanded. Many of the Sgts.
were former paratroopers, including the Sgt. Major. Many others
were former Raiders.
The Chain of Command was well structured. The Captain and
the Top or 1st Sgt. ran the Company. The Platoon Sgt. and Lts.
ran the Platoons.
The officers had little contact with the men. The first
Sgt. relayed orders to the Platoon Sgts., who passed it on the
Squad Leaders.
It was bad if you had a poor Lt. or Platoon Sgt.
As Howard remembers they had only one bad 'Lieutenant. Sgt.
Gibson must have complained because he left. The Platoon Sgt.
actually had a lot of power.
Howard was in the 5th Division, 27th Regiment, 2nd
Battalion, 'F' Company, 3rd Platoon, 3rd Squad.
The Top Sgt. was Wilber M. Burgess. The Platoon Sgt. was
James Gibson Jr. The 1st Squad Leader was Sgt. Ronald E. III (a
former paratrooper). The 2nd Squad Leader was Sgt. Jack W. Evans
(a former raider). Howard was the 3rd Squad Leader. He had been
a rifle man.
Several weeks later Howard was sent to see the Sgt. Major
who told him that he would be awarded the Silver Star and that
the 1st Sgt. Burgess would instruct him on the ceremony.
The event was held on a Friday. The Regimental Band played
and the Battalion marched. The medal was awarded by General K.
E. Rockey. While they were waiting to begin, the General asked
�Howard' if he remembered who his Company Commander was on Cape
Glouchester. Howard said, "No Sir, I don't remember. II
General Rockey said these words:
By the virtue of the power delegated to me and with the
approval of the Commander in Chief, Southwest Pacific Area, I
take pleasure in awarding, in the name of the President of the
United States, the Silver Star Medal to Corporal ·Howard Elvin
Bennink, United States Marine Corps.
The Citation:
For distinguishing himself by conspicuous gallantry, and in
trepidity in action against a.rmed enemy forces
- Corporal
Howard Elvin Bennink, U.S. Marine Corps, leader of a squad that
was detailed to follow a tank making an assault on enemy pill
boxes, repeatedly climbed upon the tanks, under machine gun and
rifle fire, thereby attracting the attention of the driver, by
hanging on the turret and directing him to the enemy positions,
as a result of which the pill boxes were knocked out.
His example of courage, leadership and devotion to duty were
a great inspiration to all those with whom he came in contact and
were in keeping with the highest traditions of the, Navy of the
United States.
T.E. Kinkaid
Vice Admiral, tJ. S. Navy
Commander Seventh Fleet
At this time he was also given the Sgt. rating.
The General
said, "This man is now a Sgt."
And then they all went on a 72 hour liberty.'
Howard said that IF' Company was a pretty good company,
everyone came back on time and so they had liberty almost every
weekend.
Pfc. Seaman (William) was a rebel, an unmanageable loner,
a
Canadian who had once been a Raider and a good one, but now he
just didn't care. He was AWOL, so no liberty for"F' Company.
It was then, that the men took off their belts and lined up
100 men facing 100 men and Seaman had to run the gauntlet.
It
was the only time Howard saw this happen.
Liberty was a big thing and Howard met Fern.
I think she
made the memory of Nancy in Melbourne dim a little.
Punishment for going AWOL was 2 weeks in the Brig, on bread
and water.
Seaman was a really tough guy and solidly built. He had
decided that no one was going to tell him. No one ever got too
close to him, although Howard's squad thought that he should take
him on.
The day that they were leaving Pendleton, the men fell in
formation, 200 men with packs and rifles.
1st Sgt. Wilber M.
Burgess (Top Sgt.) was standing on the top step talking to the
men and down the steps came Seaman. Burgess must have said
something that Seaman didn't like, because he threw down his
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rifle and pack.
Seaman and Burgess slugged it out - - no one
separated them. They fought until they both were tired and
stopped. Burgess had a really bad looking eye.
Howard said that he never saw Seaman again until Iwo Jima.
After they had set up defense lines, he walked back about 100
yards. He saw a hole in the ground covered by a poncho.
He
lifted the poncho and there was Seaman reading a magazine.
Beside him were empty bottles of medical brandy. The sick bay
had been hit by artillery and a lot of their supplies were thrown
around.
Seaman should have been court martialed.·
Howard said that he really didn't have any best buddy. He
lived with his squad, but you were the Sgt. and assigned details
and were Sgt. of the Guards, so it wasn't wise to have best
friends.
No one had ever told him how, he just tried to act like
the other Sgts. Most of the NCO's in the outfit were older,
probably in their 30's and married.
Lots of the men were gamblers. Howard remembers going to
the head at 2 or 3 a.m. and seeing two or three green blankets on
the floor with men on their knees rolling dice. The money was
allover.
He remembers the Barber Shop on base with Mexican girl hair
cutters.
Howard remembers being taught .to put a fuse in a block of
T.N.T. to throw into block houses or caves as a part of a
demolition training course.
During amphibious training, they practiced landings from the
ocean. Howard was part of the offensive team and of course
others had to pretend to be Japs. After the landing, they had to
cross a highway and it was there that a live bullet hit the
ground about two or three feet away. They were supposed to be
using blanks. Later a man was killed, he had been shot.
It was said that President Roosevelt made a visit to
Pendleton to observe the units. Howard and his men did see a big
black convertible on the ridge.
Howard also remembers a 20 mile hike.
Howard had a birthday, he was 22 years old.
Early in August, the Division under Col. Worsham began
packing and crating for overseas.
One day near the ship at the dock, Howard noticed a man dive
off the dock between the dock and the ship. The water was about
15 feet below the dock.
Then they saw a sailor dive off the deck
of the ship into the same area. The ship deck was about 15 feet
higher than the dock, so they all ran to the dock to see what was
going on. They saw a woman's purse floating on the water, with
lots of bills.
The two men were grabbing them up.
It was quite
a sight.
Down on the dock were about 25 jeeps waiting to be loaded.
They didn't need keys for their ignition, so Howard suggested
that they take a ride and they did - - - until they were stopped
by an M.P. at the guard post. He ordered them to report to their
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Commanding Officer on the ship, which they did. He said, "Sgt.,
you should know better."
The ship left at dusk and traveled in a convoy. There was a
strict blackout at night.
It took about a week to travel to Hawaii. The Division with
General Rockey left August 12, 1944.
The ships anchored at Hilo. Howard does not remember
getting off the ship, but remembers riding on a narrow gage
railroad through beautiful country. There were sugarcane fields
on both sides of the tracks. Waterfalls came out of the hills,
clear and cold.
They saw a truckload of sugarcane back up under
a waterfall to wash off the black dirt.
The soil was black
volcanic ash.
In the distance they could see the Mauna Kea and
the Mauna Loa.
Camp Tarawa was about 65 miles in the north central Hawaii,
about 12 miles from the coast. It was in the Parker Ranch.
In December, 1943, the 2nd Marine Division had recuperated
here after it had been withdrawn from Tarawa and had named this
camp after it's battle ground. They had just left for assaults
on Saipan and Tinian. Now it would be home for the 5th Division.
When the sugarcane stopped, the train stopped too and the
men walked.
The tent city was 2600 fee~ above sea level and windy.
It
was warm and sunny during the day, but cool at night. .There were
stoves in the tents, but wood was scarce. The men slept on
canvas cots, under blankets. The tents held six men, ~o the 3
Squad Leaders (3) and the Platoon Guide and two Navy corpsmen
also bunked together.
Food was good, but they had an excess amount of canned
spinach.
When the men came in from the field, they were covered with
black dust. They needed lots of showers, but the water was cold!
Howard said that they got just wet enough to lather and then they
had to work up courage to rinse off.
There was never a line up for showers and this was. strange
until they realized that only the Sgts.· were taking showers. The
rest were taking baths in the tents with water that they heated
on their stoves.
The squad shaved with soap and cold water too, until they
got smart and brought hot rise water back from the mess tent in
their canteen cup.
In the mess tent were three big cans of hot
water which the men used to clean their utensils. The first one
had hot soapy water, the other two held rinse water. The last
rinse was quite clear and good for shaving.
Everything on the island was off limits, except wh~n in
formation, so they never got to the village of Kamuela. But
across the pasture and over the wire fences, across a deep gully
was a farm house.
Eight or nine local women had big kitchen
tables set up in the rooms and served steak, eggs and american
fries, until some Marines got drunk and caused a disturbance.
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The place was closed.
It was too bad because the food was good
and the women ran a clean place.
Alcohol was a problem in camp, but especially for 2nd Lt.
Clifford Fulcher. The scuttle-butt was that he came up from the
ranks and that he made Lt. rank when he got an officer's daughter
pregnant. He never talked to the men during regular hours, but
he did his drinking in the Officer's Club across the ravine from
the squad leaders' tent. They would see him stagger out. He
always got lost and got in the tent with the other Platoon Sgts.
Sometimes, he'd like to display his ample manly parts and brag a
little. Howard saw him surrounded by the Platoon Sgts. with
.machetes saying, "If you don't get the hell out of here, we'll
cut it off."
At least three times he got lost in the squad leaders' tent
and he'd ask them for help, so they'd grab his arm and lead him
back. He lived with a Lt. of a machine gun group. This Lt. was
a "nice little guy."
When Fulcher was drunk, he'd eye .up the
Lt. and say, "I'm going to kick the shit out of you". When the
squad leaders took him home, they'd always ask if it was alright
to leave and they'd take off.
The next day, Lt. Fulcher was as before, he never talked.
The men though~maybe he wasn't as drunk as he appeared to be.
Later on Iwo Jima, after landing on the beach and reaching
level ground, Howard located Platoon Sgt. Gibson and had his
squad headed in the direction, when someone said that Lt. Fulcher
got hit in the foot.
The men all thought that he shot ~imself.
When Howard was a patient in Aiae Naval Hospital after Iwo
Jima, he saw Lt. Fulcher. He was in the officers' quart:ers. He
was dressed in pj 's and using crutches. Some nurses back from
liberty had brought him some bottles. Howard thought that he
probably should have counted the bones in his feet before he
shot. Maybe there would have been a better place.
After Fulcher was shot on IWo, Platoon Sgt. Gibson took over
the Platoon. Gibson was very good.
"We were lucky, actually,
though Fulcher also was a good Lt."
.
On the edge of camp on a hillside, there were sand bags to
sit on with a stage below. There they heard Bob Crosby, Bing's
brother, and his band. Bob Crosby was a Marine.
All of the women looked old to these young men but four or
five of them danced and explained the movements of the hula to
them.
The officers weren't the only ones who couldn't hold their
alcohol. On several occasions the NCO's were given 3.2 beer,
usually 12 bottles per man.
Sgt. Evans, the 2nd Squad Leader did
not drink so Howard had his 12 also. A Sgt. from machin~ guns
drank with him. About 2 or 3 a.m., they ran out and Howard knew
where the Platoon Guide kept his beer under his cot.
So quietly,
he thought, he pulled it out, but Sgt. Graham woke up and gave
Howard a kick. He landed against the stove and the pipes fell
down. They told him that "he had enough", and put him to bed.
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The next morning while he was still pretty shaky, they had
to see the 1st Sgt., Sgt. Burgess. They had forgotten to take
their caps off and this is a no-no. Burgess knocked their caps
off and made them stand at attention, then pick up their caps.
They were not arrested. Sgt. Burgess was the sam~ man who fought
with Cpl. Seaman at Camp Pendleton.
The men did get to the beach a couple times and jumped in,
but had to be careful because of the coral rock.
Howard went on liberty in Hilo with Cpl. Dale Skidmore and
Cpl~ Wayne Mittelstaedt, both from Wisconsin and unmarried.
They
walked up the hill to a tavern and met three officers from the
Air Force coming down. The decided that tpey wouldn't salute
them.
They just got by when one of them yelled, "Marine." We
turned around and "gave them a snappy salute." They said, "Don't
you know that you salute all officers?" We said, "Yes Sir."
In the tavern, they met some Air Force enlisted men who told
them that they were bombing some little island between their base
and Japan.
It was probably Iwo Jima.
The three of them, Howard, Skidmore, and Mittelstaedt also
had liberty together in Honolulu.
It was crowded and a .mess.
All three were tattooed with black panthers. Both of the men
were killed on Iwo. They were in the 3rd Platoon, but in
different squads.
,
In November, the Marines were encouraged to sign up for life
insurance. Howard increased his from $5,000 to $10,000.
It cost
$6.00 per month or $3.00 for each $5,000. He often wonder~d what
Harm and Nancy would have done with it.
At this time the Division received an additional 125 :
officers and 2500 men for battle replacements. They would. use
them as a shore party until they were needed as replacements.
The 471st Amphibian Truck Company (Army) was attached to the
13th Marines. These were the first black troops that Howard saw
in DUKW's on the beach at Iwo.
One of the last days of training the Platoon Command was
turned over to Sgts. and Squad Leaders to Cpls. and Pfcs . .
It was known from previous Pacific battles that officer and
NCO casualties would be heavy. Howard said that Platoon Sgt.
Gibson did a good job.of talking to them.
For Christmas, they had extra beer.
I skipped over a big event back in the States. November,
1944 had an important election. If elected, Franklin D.
Roosevelt would begin his 4th term. The Republicans had been out
of executive power for 12 years. They accused the president for
staging D. Day in Europe to coincide with the Republican
Convention in June. They had many who were interested in
running, but they also needed an outstanding man. General
Douglas MacArthur was considered and MacArthur wrote Senator
Arthur H. VandenBerg of Michigan that he would not campaign for
any office, but would submit to the will of the people if he were
drafted. His personality was so abrading that Thomas E. Dewey,
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the Governor of New York was nominated on the first ballot.
On November 6, F.D.R. won the election by taking 36 of the
48 states.
Howard voted in the election on a paper ballot, but doesn't
remember anything else.
The 27th Marines boarded ships on December 27th and by
January 6th, the entire 5th Division was assembled at Honolulu.
Howard remembers the many ships tied up side by side in the
harbor.
Honolulu was a city of solid white Navy uniforms, even some
British, and not much to do except drink. ~hey were allowed
three drinks in each tavern, then if you tipped the waitress,
she'd give you one more. After that, you went to another tavern.
Howard never drank gin, but he did in Honolulu. That made
him "mellow", and he went with his friends, Skidmore and
Mittelstaedter to a tatoo parlor, where for $10.00, they got
their big black panthers on the left upper arm.
If they flexed
their muscles the cat jumped. His arm was still oozing when·he
landed on Iwo Jima.
On January 22, 1945, the Marines left Hawaii and moved 4000
miles across the Pacific, stopping at Eniwetok to refuel and then
moved into Japanese held waters.
While on the high seas, they w~re told that the target would
be Iwo Jima.
It didn't mean a thing. No one had ever heard of
it. There was a plaster relief map of the island which was used
for teaching. The officers pointed out the beaches and the p'lan
of battle.
"They didn't tell us that it was all tunnels", Howard
said.
On February 5, the convoy reached Eniwetok, where the ships
refueled. Two days later they left for Saipan.
At Saipan, the men transferred to LST's (landing ship tank).
Saipan's harbor was unsheltered and the waters were rough.
Howard remembers the transfer and the one night they spent in
Saipan. The LST's were anchored off the island. Sometime during
the night, another LST bumped into their LST The Skippers swore
a t each other, n ; - - damn you! . - - - don't you know how to .
anchor a ship!"
It was always very dark at sea (black out). You just
COUldn't see anything up on deck. The Marines were on the open
deck.
They used their life preserver as a pillow and their
poncho as a cover. If it rained, they slept under a truck. They
were required to wear their life jackets and they did as long as
it was light enough to see them. They were vest type and stuffed
with cork or "horse hair".
It was a four day run to Iwo Jima.
Iwo Jima had been in Japanese hands since 1861 and was
therefore off limits to Europeans and Americans.
Its name meant
sulfur island and there was a small refinery on the island.
There was also a sugar mill. It was 7 - 7 1/2 square miles in
size and shaped somewhat like a pork chop. The broad north side
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was rough and rocky with cliffs and boulders. The south tip had
554 foot Mt. Suribachi. The southeast beaches would be used for
landing.
There were two airfields on the island and another
under construction. There was no water on the island.
H. Hour was scheduled for 9 a.m. on February 19th, 1945.
The 5th Division plan was for the CT 27th (Howard's) and the CT
28th to land abreast on Red Beaches 1 and 2. CT 28 would land on
their left. The 4th Division would land on the 27th's right.
The 3rd Division would remain in reserve on ships until needed . .
The 5th Division (27th and 28th) would cut off Suribachi and
then pivot north.
Dawn was at 6:40 a.m. and the men got their first glimpse of
Iwo. The water was full of ships. They could see Suribachi's
cone. They had already had breakfast of steak and eggs and were
topside to pick up their gear. They were given belt type life
preservers which could be inflated by activating the carbon
dioxide cartridges. When on shore, they would be unsnapped and
dropped.
The ships began to shell the island at 6:40 a.m. and
continued until 8:05 a.m. At 8:05 a.m., B24 Liberator.s from
Saipan and 72 carrier based fighters and dive bombers pounded the
island until H minus 35 minutes, when the battle ships and
cruisers started again.
In the meantime the rifle companies moved down into the hull
where the "alligator tanks" were waiting. While still on deck,
Platoon Sgt. Gibson gave each of the three squad leaders a
container with about 24 small white pills. If any of their men.
broke down, wouldn't move, cried, or got scared, they should be.
given a pill. Howard never used them and doesn't know what
happened to them.
The LST held 200 men, with their packs, equipment and
rifles.
They walked down a cat walk about three feet wide on the
side of the ship. This was the first time the men saw the
landing tanks. They had been manufactured in Kalamazoo,
Michigan. They loaded on and went down the ramp into the water -,
They all floated and best of all, no landing nets this time.
Howard's was one of the first to hit the water. The tanks held
about 15 or 20 men. They zig-zagged around the ships until all
were out of the LST's, then moved away and circled the area.
Between the tanks and the island Navy ships were shooting
point blank into the landing beaches.
The tanks stopped circling and formed three lines. The
first line had a five man crew with 75 rom. short barrel guns and
machine guns. Howard and the rifle men were in the first wave of
troops.
There were five waves of LVT's (tanks) with assault
companies.
Howard remembers heading for the battleships and when they
were about 30 yards from it, they passed on the left of the stern
and turned right under the guns as they were still firing.
They
could see the shell and the ball of fire right overhead. He
�never again heard anything like it. This went on all the way to
the beach, then it continued, but the barrels were raised so the
shells landed further inland.
At 0900, the seven battalions of the 4th and 5th Division
hit the beach.
It was better organized than the previous
landings had been.
LT 1/28 carne ashore on Green Beach with Lt. Col. Butterfield
near Mt. Suribachi. Howard's LT 2/27 with Maj. Antonelli landed
on Red Beach I and ·Col. Butler's 1/27 hit Red Beach II. The 4th
Division landed on their north.
There was no fire on the beach. As soon as the Arntracs
stopped, the troops jumped out and sank to their boot tops in the
ashy soil. They got up and scrambled up on the higher line as
fast as they could.
They saw a pill box. Cpl. Joseph Hotovchine got hit by
rifle fire.
He was about five feet ahead and talking to Howard.
He was shot in the neck. The Platoon Corpsman who landed with
the Platoon took care of him, but it made everyone leery. The
men tried to dig in, there was lots of fire, both mortar and
artillery from Suribachi and the north. Then the shells started
hitting the beach area. This may have been when Lt. Fulcher was
wounded.
Pfc. David Snell (3rd squad) $potted two Japs off to the
left protected by a mound of sand, in front of a dug out. They
were firing at the 28th Marines. Snell lying on his belly, fired
the BAR (browning automatic rifle) at them; the ammo consisted of.
two regular bullets and one tracer bullet. He was over shooting
the Japs and the bullets were dropping into the 28th Marines.
Howard told him to stop.
In retrospect, the mound of dirt and
the dug out was an opening into the tunnels, but as yet the
Marines did not know that they existed.
The fighter planes were still overhead strafing. A Jap was
in a flexible chair-seat in a harness attached to an anti
aircraft gun.
Our machine gun squad saw this going on and fired
several rounds, but never hit him.
"We were at a stand still. Platoon Sgt. Gibson said to move:
out", so Howard told the machine gunners to hold their fire.
When he got back to his squad, Gibson said, "Let's go." They
didn't stop until they got to the other side of the island.
The leading Companies (E and F; Howard's was F, 200 men) had
orders to get across the island fast.
They were to by-pass
installations except those that threatened to hold up the
advance.
About four hours later, the tanks carne into the area. Then
the Japs opened up from Suribachi.
"The shells never did much
damage to our line, and there were lots of duds."
Howard noticed a mound of dirt with what appeared to be an
onion crate upside down on top. The Marines were all "tight" to
the ground, when a hand pushed a grenade between the slats.
"I
just looked at it, I didn't fire."
It rolled down to Cpl. Frank
27
�i
r
Bolek's leg and exploded.
"I don't know why someone didn't blow
that crate off, it was probably an air vent, but no one knew
about that." The Corpsman took Frank back to the beach and got
him off the island. Howard met Frank Bolek again when they were
at the Great Lakes Naval Hospital. Bolek lived in Chicago and
Howard met his parents and the family. He came to Michigan
several times and we visited him in St. Louis, where he worked in
an Oldsmobile plant. He married, but did not have any children.
He died several years ago, but several months before he died, he
called and they had a long talk about the battles for Iwo Jima.
The Japanese opened up on the beach with artillery.
"Why
they didn't fire among us, I don't know. Did they know that if
they hit the vent, they'd kill their own?" The mound was about
six or seven feet high. Bolek was Howard's only Cpl. and
directly below him in the squad. It was a big loss.
Sgt. Evans (2nd squad leader) was hit with phosphorus or
star shells. They look like fireworks on the 4th of July, but
burn into the skin for days. Howard saw him later in the
hospital on Guam.
The day was pretty much a pattern of get up, stumble a,few
yards ahead and drop again. The conversations were pretty much
the same, "We're spotted, lets get the hell outta here."
Howard's Company moved north then pad to hole up to let the
rest catch up.
Back on the beach, the officers on the control vessels were
coordina ting the landirw of the supporting uni ts and heavy
weapons. Many of the tanks were knocked out by land mines.
Three out of four rocket launching trucks were lost before they
'cou Ld fire a shot.
The weasels (water carrying tanks), which
were too small for much use in Europe were appreciated on Iwo.
The waters edge was full of mangled Amtracs, LCM's, LCVPS and
bodies. Debris piled up. The wounded arrived on the beach and
were unprotected. Many were hit a second time. The first two
boats bringing in litters were blown out of the water.
By dusk. all the .reserve units were ashore and all the main
elements excepts for Division Headquarters were on Iwo.
Howard's unit was on the edge of the airfield. There were
buried tanks, but none directly in front of them.
In front of
them were block houses, three to four feet thick, that had been
knocked out by Naval guns.
At night, the "Devil Dogs", Dobermans with their handlers
came up.
"It felt good to have the dogs."
The ships off shore fired flares on parachutes continuously
through the night. They were shot out in front of the Marine's
line and kept the area as bright as a football field.
That
continued throughout the three weeks that Howard was on the
island.
Near the airfield the Marines saw slabs of concrete sloped
so that rain water could run into tanks.
It was the only source
of water the Japs had.
# , · ·....
28
�Off to the right, all Howard could see was a wall of dirt,
but here on the high ground was the airstrip (runway). They
heard firing all day and all night. The 3rd Marines and a part
of the 5th Division were at the airport and had the hardest part.
It is difficult to remember specific times of events as days
and nights blend, but one time Howard remembers rockets as big as
garbage cans arching over them. They could see them corning and
it looked as if they were corning right at them, but they never
landed near them.
Rations were good, or at least improved from 1942. They had
cheese, crackers/ beef/ bacon, and cigarettes.
Sometimes the
canned bacon was enough for two people and with the canned heat/
they could fry it. They always had plenty of water.
The temperature was not too bad and as they moved north/ if
they scraped off the top two inches of soil/ the ground was warm.
They had plenty of ammo.
They were able to get some sleep at night.
Thirteen men were on the line in an area as far as between
our house and Sillman's (50 feet next door) and the 3rd Platoon
was made up of "good steady guys" and "the 3rd squad had lost
only Bolek."
Casualties for the entire landing force of Marines for the
first 58 hours exceeded 5/300.
,
Iwo Jima was no push over. After the battle, intelligence
teams determined this was the list of Japanese guns:
12 - 320 mm. spigot mortars
22 - 150 mm. trench mortars
4 - 15 cm. coast defense guns
4 - 14 cm. coast defense guns
9
12 cm. coast defense guns
12 - 12 cm. short coast defense guns
30 - 12 cm. dual purpose guns
6 - 10 cm. dual purpose guns
5 - 8 cm. dual purpose guns
18 - 7.5 cm. dual purpose guns
1 - 150 mm. howitzer
4 - 120 mm. howitzers
6 - 10 cm. howitzers
4 - 90 mm. howitzers
5 - 75 mm. pack howitzers
17 - 75 mm. field guns
24 - 70 mm. battalion guns
70 - 90/81 mm. mortars
380 - 50 mm. heavy grenade dischargers
54 - 47 mm. anti tank guns
15
37 mm. anti tank guns
4 - 40 mm. anti aircraft guns
213 - 25 mm. machine guns
9 - 23 mm. anti aircraft machine guns
4 - 20 mm. machine guns
'29
�168 - 13 mm. machine guns
350 - heavy machine guns
480 - light machine guns
30 - tanks
61 - flame throwers
10,000 - rifles
12 - search lights
3 - radar units
200+ - rocket launches
All of this, in approximately seven to seven and a half
square miles.
While the 27th moved· north, the 28th ~as devoted to the
capture of Suribachi. The attack of the Marines began on D+ 1.
The Japs fought from a vast complex defensive system.
The caves,
like the pill boxes and block houses, with many entrances were
linked to command caves with ammo, food, water and living
quarters some 50 feet below ground.
On D+ 4, Suribachi was scaled and a small flag was raised.
This was replaced by a larger flag about four hours later and it
was this raising that was shot by Joe Rosenthal of the Associated
Press and became the most celebrated picture of W.W.II.
Taking Suribachi cost the 28th, 904 casualties (7 officers
and 202 men were killed) .
After about two weeks on the front line, 'FI Company came
back to the base of Suribachi to rest in a supposedly secure
area.
To the north east of their area, about a distance from our
house to Witteveens (100 yards) was a group of Army Engineers
rebuilding the airport. All of a sudden, the Marine's eyes began
to burn and they heard a voice on the P.A. system directed toward
the Engineers, "Evacuate to the beach." The Marines did not
move.
"It was the.most foolish words I ever heard." Some did
gather up gas masks that littered the ground where they had been
discarded. The masks didnlt have canisters, so were useless, and
while there was some gas, there wasn't enough to bother.
It
drifted away.
It was said that the Japs were still sneaking out of caves
in the area, but Howard never saw any. ~here was sporadic rifle
fire from among the Army Engineers.
After two nights of this supposedly safe place to rest, they
returned to the front line. Howard said that he felt relieved,
"We knew what was what."
They returned to the area to the north end of the island
between the second and third airstrips.
It was quiet.
Then
orders came to relieve another Company and that "didn't sound
good. "
They moved across the third airstrip and faced north, then
moved into position on a brightly moonlit night. The relieved
Company moved to the back.
Howard and his squad walked through a narrow passage between
�I
two ridges; it was perhaps two or three feet wide. He looked up
ad saw a Japanese officer standing on the edge and looking down
at them.
He disappeared before anyone could shoot. They moved
into their position, the day light came.
There was some firing, but the Marines couldn't tell where
it was coming from so they didn't try to move.
Then all of a sudden, there were shells or rockets or big
mortars which landed among the squad and platoon. It may have
been friendly fire from a Navy ship or a Marine artillery or even
a rocket battery, but it was not Japanese. Two men in the
Platoon disappeared, but no one in Howard'~ squad was hit.
Sgt. Gibson, the Platoon Sgt. wanted the men to withdraw to
a safer area around the corner of a ridge. Howard got his men
going, telling them to "run like Hell." Pfc. Stanley Swartz
stopped and said, "What? II He was hit in the wrist and through
the buttocks. He fell or crawled into a shell hole. The
corpsman must have seen it happen. He bandaged him and they made
it out of the hold and around the ridge. That was the last
Howard saw of Swartz until they met again in Great Lakes.
I met Stanley Swartz once. They spent the night 'with us
when we lived in the Barber Shop on Beech Tree St. It was
probably in 1954. He was married and had a sCm about three years
old. He had tried several jobs by that time and now was a
scientific pig farmer.
Later, we read that he was producing eggs
ahd had an elaborate system of marketing.
Shortly after that, we
lost all contact. All our letters returned.
I remember him as a
tall thin man who seemed even thinner, because his pants kind of
hung from his waist.
It looked as if he had lost a lot of
gluteal tissue.
He also had some problem walking.
I remember,
as his wife and I were doing women's work in the kitchen and he
and Howard were in the living room, we overheard him say, "How
come, all of us tall skinny Marines marry short, fat wives?" and
we both were that.
The rest of the squad made it back behind the ridge. The
Spearhead describes it this way. "CT 27 made limited gains during
the day against an irregular ridge line - sometimes called Nishi
Ridge - in the vicinity of Nishi Village. This was one of the
strongest remaining defensive positions on the island. L.T. 27
advanced 200 yards to reach the high ground overlooking the North
Coast of lWo, but after getting a blood bath from grenades, knee
mortars and sniper fire from the high jagged rocks, the troops
were forced to withdraw."
A few Japanese phosphorous or mortar shells dropped behind
the ridge and this made Howard nervous. He remembered that the
face of the cliffs were packed with little black holes about 14
inches in diameter.
About a half hour later, Sgt. Gibson received orders
probably from the Company Commander to "resume our position." It
was then that Howard made his "famous prediction", "We're all
going to be Killed", but it was an order, and they moved out.
�Howard again saw the black holes and investigated. He
couldn't see anything, because of the darkness, but most of the
fire seemed to come from that area. He still thinks that the
Japs were inside and firing out.
Then he noticed a small brush pile raise up about 'five
inches and a machine gun stuck its barrel out and fired to the
left. He didn't know if anyone was hit. The gun was withdrawn
and the brush pile settled down again. This was about as far
away as Ring's house (two houses from ours, 50 yards) from
Howard's position.
Some of Howard's squad were being hit, but
were being cared for and as Howard looked to his left, he saw his
BAR man, Pfc. Snell was hit by rifle fire.
Howard went to him;
He had been shot right through the head and been knocked into a
crater, a shell hole about six fee~deep. "He was still
quivering".
On top of the ridge and to the left, Sgt. Gibson
called down, "Can we help him?" I said, "No, he's beyond help."
The next chain of events, I will record exactly as Howard
told me.
"I crawled through the crater and was on my belly on
the side of the hole and looking at the holes in the cliff and
aiming my rifle, my head cocked over the sight. All of a sudden,
I was hit!
It threw me back and I landed on Snell's legs, I
could feel him quiver. Luckily for me Sgt. Gibson saw it happen.
The Corpsman came in and shoved gauze under my jacket in the
front and back (Frederick H. Alberty, Ph.M3C.). Four stretcher
bearers carne in the shell hole with a stretcher. They loaded me
on and started up the side of the shell hole. When I was about
shoulder high, one of the stretcher bearers was shot. The others
dragged me down into the bottom of the hole again. Another
""~earer came into the hole.
There was lots of gun fire, but it
was ~ot hitting us. They were successful in carrying me out and
around the back side of the cliff and ridge. As they were
carrying me, I looked around and up on the ridge I saw 1st Sgt.
Burgess and two machine guns set just over the ridge and spraying
bullets over the shell hole where we had been, and at the round
black holes. There was a jeep close by and they shoved my
stretcher on it. There was room for two, but I didn't see anyone
else."
"From then on, I had nothing more to do with 'F' Company,
the ~latoon, or my Squad.
I was taken to the Divisional Hospital
which was an excavated area in the ground about two feet deep and
covered by a tent.
I was carried in and laid on the ground in a
row with many others."
"'Sometime, soon after, a chaplain stood over me and said,
'Are oyou sorry for your sins?'
I said, 'I'm not Catholic.'
He
walked away."
0"1 didn't have much pain unless I moved, or I passed out.
I
don't remember the night at all. When I woke up it was daylight.
Someone told me I was leaving the island and going to a hospital
ship.
They loaded a bunch of us on a DUKW, it had wheels and a
propeller. As we were loading, I was asked if I wanted an apple.
12
!
�It was big and red, but I couldn't bite into it, I had no
strength.
I think I remember them carrying me up a ramp into the
hospital ship on a stretcher.
I was put in a bottom bunk.
I
just don't remember any of it except that just before we got to
Guam the body cast was put on.
It probably felt good, because I
couldn't move."
"When I was shot, it felt like I was hit by a sledge hammer
in my chest and shoulder.
I was weak and could only whisper.
I
thought, 'this is the way you die', and I had reason to think
this."
On D+ 20, the LT 2/27, the Regiment worn and casualty ridden
was pulled out and was not used again in the campaign.
Platoon Sgt. James Gibson, Jr. was a good Marine. He was
wounded and received a Bronze Star. He was about 10 years older
than. Howard and had been a paratrooper. He was of a sturdy
build .
. First Sgt. Wilber Burgess was also wounded in action.
·According to "The Spear Head", the World War II History of
the 5th Marine Division by Howard M. Conner, Howard's squad
finished Iwo in this manner:
Sgt. Howard E. Bennink
wounded
Cpl. Frank M. Bolek
wounded
Pfc. David B. Snell
killed.
Pvt. Kenneth C. Thomas
wounded
Pvt. Curtis C. Byrd
?
Pfc. Stanley J. Swartz
wounded
'Pfc. Malcom L. Waite
wounded
'Pfc. Howard R. Williams wounded
Pvt. Robert Torte
wounded
:Pfc. Harry S. Carothers wounded
Pfc. Douglas N. Wallace wounded
Pfc. Robert C. Smith
wounded
Pfc. John H. Whipple
wounded
Each squad was made up of a leader, a Sgt. and three fire
groups of four men each headed by a Cpl., but Howard had only one
Corporal.
Carothers, a Pfc. was the acting leader with Wallace,
Smith and Whipple.
Stanley Swartz was an acting group leader
with ~aite, Williams and Torti. Bolek was the only Cpl. with
Snell, Thomas and Byrd.
The Commanding officer of LT 27, Major John W. Antonelli was
wounded on ~ 18th with three of his officers on the front
line ..
Lt. Jack Lummas of 'F' Company was mortally wounded by a
land mine on D+ 17.
Marine infantry losses were so heavy that gaps were filled
with cooks, bakers, mortar men and communicators.
Seventy
percent of all the battle casualties occurred in the infantry
regiments and their replacements.
In July of 1995, we requested and received Howard's medical
�.#', ...~'
records. We were surprised to see how complete they were in the
midst of what must have been complete chaos. For instance on Iwo
Jima, casualties averaged over a thousand a day.
There was no medical record of treatment on the beach at
Iwo, but I saw another record, as I remember a handwritten one
that we requested for Dr. Leland Swenson in 1959 or 1960 and if I
remember correctly, he was given 13 units of blood and plasma.
It was difficult to read and interpret. The new record seems to
be bits of progress notes and discharge summaries.
It is
typewritten, but it has some written signatures.
The Hospital Ship, Howard was on was the AH10, the
Samaritan. The initial entry says 3-7-45 (date of admission)
gunshot wounds of the side of the face and chest. Tetanus and
gas gangrene shots given. This is followed by a description of
the injuries; 1. Small wound, left submaxillary.
2. Left
shoulder has two wounds - one anterior just over the outer end of
the clavicle and the other (the point of exit) over the scapular
spine. '3. x-ray of the face and skull = no fractures.
4. x-ray
of the cervical spine shows a comminuted fracture of the right
transverse process of the 6th cervical vertebra. There is' an
abnormal curvature of this portion of the spine with a slight
kyphotic curve, the apex of which is at the 5th and 6th vertebral
bodies.
5. x-ray of the left shoulder shows a comminuted
fractur~ involving the lateral 1/3 of the clavicle.
On 3-10-45 wounds were redressed with sulfanilamide and
vaseline gauze. A shoulder spica cast was applied reaching to
the base of the finger on the left hand.
Ho~ard says that he doesn't remember much about the ship,
except having the cast applied.
It was a body cast with an
airplane: splint type of cast on the arm.
These are the signatures on the reports from the Samaritan:
A. R. Aronson, Lt. (MC) U.S.N.R.
/s/ J. F. Belair
/s/ E. L. Jewett
H., J. Wiser, Cmdr. (MC) U.S.N.R.
R. W. Hayworth, Captain U.S.N.
Howard received a hospital number which accompanied him
through t.he system, #2529 KJ"K" DNEPTE and a heading on many of
the docuqlents:
not misconduct
within command
work
negligence not apparent
wounded in action against an organized enemy
received from 2nd Bn. 27 Marines
Not all the injured merited the care of a hospital ship. An
ex-Marine who was injured at Suribachi told how he was taken
aboard a troop carrier. He was placed on the floor of a passage
way while waiting to see the doctor.
He had a shoulder injury
and was worried about gangrene. After three days he got to see
�the doctor and expressed his thanks for seeing a good bone man,
but the doctor said, "But I'm not. At home I'm a kidney man."
His arm was saved, but he had to learn to write with his left
hand.
I remember a doctor who told me that the day before he was
inducted, he performed an appendectomy on a kitchen table in
Conklin, Michigan. He was a psychiatrist in the army and
thereafter. He helped Elmer Fisher adjust to his paralysis.
On 3-11-45, Howard was transferred to a hospital ashore,
which was Guam U.S.N.H. - 101, in a barracks type building. He
doesn't remember much about this hospitalization either, except
.that while he was there maggots crawled in and out of the cast.
In time the maggots turned into flies and were really irritating.
By pushing a stick in and under the cit near the wrist he could
sometimes get the varmints out. Howard thought that the maggots
had been planted as a treatment for dead tissue, but I think not.
The Navy V~terans told about the clouds of big blue flies that
they encountered as they neared the beach and the flies that
covered the wounded and dead.
On Guam, Howard saw Sgt. Evans, the 2nd Squad Leader, who
had been burned by phosphorus. He had painful burns of his neck
and arms. He came from one of the western states. He was
married and,always kept his wife's picture in the tent.
"She was
a beautiful ,girl."
Although, I am sure that it was a mutually sentimental
reunion, Howard expressed it this way, "I couldn't talk and we
were both tcio far gone."
On 3-2{-45, they recommended transfer to U.S.N.H. in T.R. or
"'Ccrntinentallimits of U.S. (T.H. means Territory of Hawaii).
Howard left Guam by plane. The littersWere secured on
racks. There were nurses on the plane as they had also been on
Guam. He was the only patient on the plane who was ambulatory,
so when the plane landed on Johnston Island for refueling, he was
asked to go to breakfast in the barracks. Once there, they
offered him anything he wanted, but he still couldn't eat. They
gave him an orange, but he couldn't eat that either.
On 3-24-45, Howard was admitted to the U.S. Naval Hospital,
Aiea Heights, T.H.
It was a large brick building about six
stories high.; The record which we have seems to be a combination
of the history and physical, progress notes and discharge
summary.
On admission after repeating the history of the injury it
says, "he has been hoarse since injury and has 'vibrating'
feeling in his throat. First week following wound pt. coughed
with some hemoptysis. Dry cough· since. Voice very hoarse.
P.E. negative except for:
1. Over carotid, in the left side of neck is palpable thrill
synchronous with pulse and audible bruit.
2. Left upper extremity is immobilized in a brachial spica with
arm at 45 degree abduction and elbow at 45 degree flexion.
No
')5
�sensory or motor changes of the hands or fingers."
3-27-45, x-ray of left shoulder:
There is a comminuted fracture involving the distal 1/3 of the
left clavicle in which the fragments appear in fair position and
alignment in the A-P view of the shoulder. A heavy plaster cast
surrounds the shoulder joint and no definite bone injury to other
bones or regions can be detected. There is no evidence of
metallic foreign bodies.
4-4-45, x-ray of cervical spine:
No foreign bodies can be made out in the neck.
.
Sometime after this Howard remembers that he and another
patient were taken into a lecture hall, where their injuries were
being discussed. The speaker (as Howard listened just outside
the door) cautioned that injuries of this nature were being
missed.
4-8-45, Operation Record:
Aneurysm operated on. Common Carotid. Arterio-Venous aneurysm
at bifurcation of common carotid. The carotid internal and
external carotid, superior thyroid and internal jugular vein~
ligated and aneurysm excised. Wound closed without drainage.
Operator· Dr. H. K. Gray.
Howard remembers before surgery in gn anteroom, a nurse told
him that she was from Lansing, Michigan.
On April 11' 1945, Franklin Delano Roosevelt died. Howard
has a faint memory of being told.
4-16-45, Sutures were removed. Wound clean.
Pt. has a
Horner's Syndrome, left side since operation. Voice is still
,..··~ry hoarse.
Injury at time of accident.
Horner's Syndrome is caused by a paralysis of the cervical
sympathetic nerves. Howard has a droopy eye lid, a contracted
pupil, and an abnormal sweating pattern.
4-20-45, Diagnosis changed this date to aneurysm (arterio
Venous) left carotid #202 DNEPTE. Reason - Complication no
misconduct~
4-22-45, Electrocardiogram - normal.
4-25-45, Wound healed.
Patient still has hoarseness with
evidence still present of Horner's Syndrome left. Recommend
evacuation to mainland for further treatment and disposition.
Hospital litter - via air.
5-3-45, transferred this day to a U.S. Government transport
to a u.S. Naval Hospital on the mainland, without formal medical
survey in accorqance with Bu Pers Circular letter 99-44 of March
31, 1944.
This section of the medical record was signed by:
W. C.· Mulry, Lt. (MC) U.S.N., Acting Division Surgeon
A. M. McDonald, Lt. Cmdr. (MC) U.S.N.R.
H. K. Gray, Capt. (MC) U.S.N.R., Chief of Surgery.
On May 4, 1945, Howard was admitted to Oakland, California,
U.S. Naval Hospital.
�:;x
,
,
5-5-45, Pt. received from overseas with the diagnosis of
aneurysm, left carotid. This was surgically repaired.
He also
has gunshot wound trough the left clavicle and out the back with
minimal drainage of both wounds. Let clavicle fractured.
Pt.
wearing a sling. Abduction to 90 degrees.
Some numbness of left
arm.
Condition satisfactory for transfer closer home pending
approval of peripheral nerve department.
Howard was given the choice of a Naval Hospital in the State
of Washington or Great Lakes near Chicago.
While at Oakland, he and others were given a pass to a stage
show.
He remembers a "gut shot" Marine who required lots of
attention.
5-23-45, transfer this date to U.S.N.H., Great Lakes,
Illinois for further treatment and disposition.
O. F. Johnson Lt. Cmdr. (MC) U.S.N.R.
L. R. Reynolds.
Howard traveled by train. He left the hospital and boarded
the train alone and he had a sleeper. He arrived at Great Lakes
on May 26, 1945. The admission physical describes his wounds.
There is a scar six inches long over the left side of the neck, a
draining wound, over the left mid clavicula spine and a healed
wound on the left scapula. He has a harsh raspy voice since the
injury.
X-ray record - x-ray examination of the left shoulder shows
an old comminuted fracture of the outer 1/3 of the clavicle with
evidence of considerable calcium, but not solid union.
"",'M'
E.E.N.T. 6-13-45, This man has a dislocation of the left
arytenoid.
The dislocation holds the left cord in midline. His
voice will probably improve still more after he gets compensated
for the new anatomical position.
Lab - cbc and urinalysis were essentially negative.
6-2-45, patient can abduct the shoulder to 90 degrees, as
well as anterior and posterior motion to 90 degrees.
Physio
therapy was staited for improved muscular tone and increased
motion.
The physio-therapy involved dusting the vertical blinds in
the Officer's quarters.
6-4-45, there was an orthopedic consultation - There is a
draining sinus from the compound fractured clavicle. 1.
Curettement of the scar. 2. Tyrothricin dressings to the wound.
(this was a substance isolated from soil bacterium.)
6-5-45, The sinus of the left clavicle was curetted this
date.
6-8-45, Increased motion of the left shoulder. There is
less drainage from the clavicle.
6-12-45, Progress is satisfactory. Draining sinus of the
left shoulder, curetted this day. Diagnosis was changed from
aneurysm antero-venous left carotid #202 to fracture compound
37
�left clavicle #2529.
6-16-45, Drainage is subsiding.
Shoulder is less painful.
6-30-45, Sinus in shoulder region healing. Drainage slight.
Has some pain.
Drainage really continued even after his discharge as bone
fragments carne to the surface. There is a piece of bone that
Nancy kept with his Medals.
7-10-45, Patient states that since injury, whenever he
flexes his head on chest, he has tingling sensation in both arms'.
X-ray of cervical vertebrae ordered to determine if fracture or
dislocation is present.
7-16-45, Range of motion in shoulder is normal. Has some
pain on abduction.
7-17-45, X-ray examination of the cervical spine shows old
compression fracture of the upper plate of C-6.
7-21-45 - 8-8-45, On leave. This was not his first time at
horne. He had been home for a short time in June. Howard does
not speak of this' as an especially happy period in his life. He
denies being depressed. Maybe he was just tired of being sick
and tired at 23 years of age. Mother Nancy had already become
hard of hearing, and could of course not understand his
whispering. Maybe that too, had some bearing.
Sometime during
his stay at Great.Lakes, Aunt Grace Doornbos visited him and they
watched Bob Feller pitch, but in Howard's words he, "Couldn't
care less." He "didn't feel good, no energy."
9-10-45, It was announced that Hiroshima was destroyed by a
single bomb and three days later Nagasaki was A. bombed. On
August 14th Japan :surrendered. While Howard was in Aiae in
""1fawaii, the remnants of the 5th Division were recuperating and
training for the invasion of the home islands of Japan. This was
frightening.
The 27th Marines had been battered. Colonel
Wornham's regiment which had landed with 36 officers and 885 men,
now had 16 officers and 300 men, including replacements. Okinawa
had come and gone with like statistics.
President Truman was the
Savior of this generation.
Instead of the invasion, they were
part of the occupation and rebuilding of Japan.
9-10-45, Orthopedic Consultation - Good function of the left
shoulder, although still slight weakness about the shoulder
girdle muscles. This should improve with use.
No further
treatments indicated.
9-12-45, ENT. Consultation - Voice has improved very much.
Dislocation of the arytenoid the same and always will be.
9-13-45, Presented with Purple Heart. Howard said that one
day, a nurse asked him if he had received his Purple Heart, he
said no so she gave. him one.
10-1-45, The Medical Survey Board met and declared the
injuries had made him unfit for service and recommended he be
discharged from the USMCR. The board was composed of:
G. H. Castle, Cmdr. (MC) U.S.N.
R. E. Diffenderfer, Cmdr. (MC) U.S.N.
38
�J. C. Becker, Lt. (MC) U.S.N.
Howard was transferred to the Marine Barracks, Great Lakes
Naval Training Center for discharge.
Howard was discharged on 10-26-45. He had served three
years, eight months and 28 days.
The length of his foreign
service was ~ year, ~ months and 23 days.
Until he left the gates in his '36 Ford, he always had to
think about "going back", but no more and he was happy!
All this happened before you and I knew Howard.
I know him
better since I recorded his experiences and I hope you will know
him better in reading them.
Of course, this isn't the end of the story. He married and
had three children, a son in-law and two daughter5in-law~, all of
whom he is extremely proud, and they in return gave him six
grandsons and one grand daughter, all fine children.
How different the world would have been without Howard.
#"·'·L. . .•
39
-----------
�In October of 1995, Howard and I attended a 3rd Battalion
Reunion at Camp LeJeune, in Jacksonville, N.C.
We met Gambino from the 3rd Platoon and Abadolla from I I '
Company, both who Howard remembered. Gambino always bummed
cigarettes. Abadolla spent many years as a wholesale green
grocer and also owned a taxi service.
Both men were living in
New Jersey. They recalled that Frank Newell, from the 3rd
Platoon who was married by the Chaplin at Camp LeJeune died about
10 years ago.
Gambino had been best man.
Others remember seeing Lt. Weiss Carried back from the front
lines on the backs of his men.
We met Griffin a machine gunner from III company.
He was
badly wounded on the Matamkau and had extensive facial
reconstruction. Although he and Howard did not remember each
other, they knew many of the same people.
Capistran from the 4th squad became Fire Chief of Chelsea,
Massachusetts.
Dawson from the 3rd Platoon survived the war and was living
in Florida.
Elbert Kinser who came in as a replacement while the unit
was in Australia, became a Platoon Sgt. and was killed by a hand
grenade on Okinawa, May 4, 1945. He was awarded the Medal of·
Honor. His hometown of Greenville, Tennessee named a street and
a bridge after him. His brother, Charles, is the Chief of
Police.
After we returned home, Howard wrote Aaron Dawson a letter,
:...........
and
within a week he wrote back. He and his family live in
'
Frostproof, Florida. He too returned to the states, but went
back to the Pacific and fought and was wounded on Okinawa.
He
had rejoined his old outfit right down to the platoon and squad.
Just before he left, back to back typhoons raked the island and
his medical records were lost, but he is still trying to get his
Purple Heart.
Little did we realize when we left· Camp LeJeune what would
result from a chance meeting with local Marines across a
breakfast table, when they asked if anyone served with the 5th
Division.
A short time after we returned home, Howard received an
application for membership in the 5th Division. He returned it
just before Christmas.
The day after New Years, he received his membership card and
the membership list. Under the letter "S" was David Snell,
Lorain, Ohio.
David was the man in the shell hole with Howard on Iwo. He
was dead!
After mulling over all the possibilities, it was still
impossible, but Howard wrote a short note.
Two weeks went by and then one afternoon, the phone rang and
4u
�the voice said, "This is David Snell, Are you O.K.?II
Both thought the other had died.
--
He was one of 27 men out of 230 who walked off Iwo Jima.
He
went to Japan with the occupation forces.
The man who died was
his ammo carrier.
Yesterday, Howard received a packet from a Fox Company
organization with other names including his Platoon Sgt. Gibson.
What a start to a New Year!
~
......
~.
41
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�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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BenninkH
Title
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Bennink, Howard E. (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2008
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Bennink, Howard E.
Description
An account of the resource
Howard Bennink enlisted in the Marine Corps after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Bennink trained for six months at Camp Lejeune before traveling to New Zealand. He served in fought on Guadalcanal, Cape Gloucester and Iwo Jima during his tour of duty. He earned a Silver Star during fighting in Cape Gloucester, fought off several bouts of malaria, and was wounded two weeks into the fighting on Iwo Jima. Grand Haven Tribune newspaper article and personal narrative appended to interview outline.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
McCauslin, Kelly (Interviewer)
Spring Lake District Library (Spring Lake, Mich.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Marine Corps
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2008-01-28
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/90f5cb9436f3f894717656dc60bfd9d7.mp4
8bafd23988a84fbf4c68195db7345230
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/076396f6b3039d955f02d8bef64b45ff.pdf
4ce7f6b04579d756361f69c5ba63c862
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Interviewee’s Name: Fred Bernhardt
Name of War: World War II
Length of Interview: (00:40:00)
Background
Born 2/6/1927 in Grand Rapids, MI. (00:14)
Went to Union High School. (00:24)
Enlisted at age 17 in the Marines, during WWII. (00:28)
Most of his friends enlisted. So many of his friends enlisted that he would not have many
friends at home. He and a friend both enlisted in the Marines. (00:41)
Enlisted early March, 1944, the earliest he could enlist. (01:04)
About a month later, he had to have a physical, which took all day. (01:40)
The Marines avoided putting all the men from a particular region in the same unit. The
reasoning for this was that if an entire unit was wiped out, the losses would be too great for the
area. (02:06)
Sent to San Diego, Camp Pendleton for two months. (02:10)
He decided on the Marines after seeing a movie, possibly Guadalcanal Diary. (02:24)
He enlisted to avoid the draft, as draftees could not decide where to enlist. He needed parental
permission because he was only seventeen. His parents reluctantly consented. (02:45)
After Camp Pendleton, he was sent out on a ship, and was not informed where he was being
sent. (03:02)
Training
Training was difficult. (03:30)
Had to wake up at 5:00 AM, attend roll call, and do drill-work, then the rifle range, which was
exceptionally important. (03:34)
Practice at the range involved shooting at targets from various distances with an M-1 rifle. Men
were divided into grades: Marksman, Sharpshooter, and Expert. He managed to attain the
highest grade of Expert. (03:57)
After the rifle range, they were sent to practice with grenades, then automatic rifles, and then
they were ready. (04:10)
Drill instructors were very strict and tough. The two months at Camp Pendleton were the
roughest two months of his enlistment. (04:33)
He had an advantage over many of the men. He had been in ROTC for a year in high school,
and knew the commands and formations. Other men had a hard time learning the formations.
(04:53)
They did battlefield practice exercises with weapons, such as grenades, mortars and machine
guns. (05:30)
Deployment
Sent out on an APA troop transport, the SS Langford. It was a new ship. (05:44)
It was a thirty-day journey. (06:06)
The stopped at Pearly Harbor to refuel. (06:11)
There wasn't much left of Pearl Harbor. It was still a wreck, and had not yet been re-built as of
1944. (06:16)
Other parts of the Hawaiian Islands were all right. (06:37)
He was sent to Saipan. (06:50)
The trip was his first experience on a large ship. He became very ill and sea-sick. He was on
�three ships during the war, and was only sick the first time. (07:02)
From Pearl Harbor they went to the Marianas. (07:23)
Stayed at the Marianas briefly, they were nearly sent to Iwo Jima. (07:32)
The battle on Saipan was mostly over, but there were some stragglers left. (07:56)
The Japanese troops were terrified of the Americans, and would often preferred suicide over
capture. (08:07)
He helped some native (not Japanese) civilians hiding, because they were scared. (08:44)
His unit had to find hiding enemy troops. (09:06)
The Japanese Army did not treat the natives of the Marianas very well. (09:13)
He was on Saipan for about five months. (09:34)
They patrolled the islands. Once an island was secure, the air force would set up a base. The
Marianas were vital for the “island hopping” strategy. (09:46)
Atom bomb/Nagasaki
One day, his commander called out names for guard duty. (10:30)
[DVD freezes] (10:30-10:50)
They were instructed to shoot if any Japanese came by without the password. (11:03)
At the time, he thought the guard duty was just an exercise. He had been put on similar
missions before, and did not believe the situation was very important. Later that day, the atom
bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. (11:30)
He found out that he had been guarding the bomb. This took place the summer of 1945. (12:09)
He had arrived in Saipan around May or June. The bombs were dropped later. (12:24)
Tinian
He was at the battle of Tinian briefly, but then back to Saipan, then to Okinawa, and then back
to Sai-Pan. He was on Okinawa to set up a base for about a week.
The Marines would secure a beach, and then the Army would take over. (14:26)
Preparation for the battle involved a very detailed debriefing. They were shown maps, given a
history of the area, informed about the geography, and of their objectives. They were also given
an estimate on the number of Japanese civilians which were present. The Navy would begin the
operation by bombing and bombarding the target. (14:57)
He watched the bombardment from a troop transport. They were sent in on tracked amphibious
transport vehicles. (15:27)
He came in during the second wave of infantry. (15:51)
There were many explosions going on in the area. (16:10)
The Japanese resisted at the beach. (16:19)
It was a very rough ride. (16:50)
The landing craft came high in at a high speed. The front end dropped out, and the Marines ran
out for the nearest cover, while being shot at. (16:57)
They were targeted by mortars and machine guns (17:14)
The Navy continued to shell the hills. The shelling was not successful as the Japanese
entrenchments were too strong. (17:21)
The beachhead was only about twenty yards long, but very deadly as there was no cover.
(17:41)
There were thousands of Japanese infantry in the hills. (17:57)
His objective as an artillery observer was to find a target—such as tanks or important
equipment. (18:21)
He was then to radio the range to the instrument personal. (18:37)
The Navy would then fire one shell, to see how close they came. (19:03)
If the shot missed, he would provide closer coordinates, and so on until they scored a hit. Once
a hit was scored, he was to instruct them to fire at well. (19:22)
�
He was supported by infantry, but did not have a gun himself. (19:45)
There were tanks at Saipan and at Okinawa, but not at Tinian. (21:02)
He did not stay at Tinian the entire time. Tinian was a less intense battle than Saipan and did
not require naval artillery as frequently. He was only in the area for a day or two. (21:26)
Other men in his division stayed longer, to help secure the area. (22:17)
The Marines took high casualties. (22:30)
His unit had to call in reserves. (22:30)
Okinawa
There was a delay between Saipan and Okinawa. (23:30)
The Allies needed Iwo Jima to proceed on Okinawa, which had air strips. (23:46)
He was not involved at Iwo Jima, but was nearly sent there. (24:06)
The pre-combat debriefing was similar as for Tinian. (24:40)
The information was given on the boat, a few days before the operation. They were not
informed of their mission until just before it was to take place. (25:16)
His unit was in Okinawa for a few days, and then pulled back. Another unit took over. (25:34)
He had the same role as at Tinian, that of the artillery observer. (26:02)
He would provide the distance from the guns, not from his own location. (26:41)
The artillery was usually accurate, and sometimes hit the target on the second shot. (27:09)
He saw Ernie Pyle at Okinawa. (27:22)
The Marines were in the hills; Pyle was with them and taking notes. He had a uniform similar
to a Marine, but his helmet had the word “correspondent” on it. (27:22)
The hill was being shelled, and the Marines told Pyle not to approach, and to take cover. (27:57)
Pyle kept coming, and was killed by a mortar shell. (28:11)
He had never talked to Pyle, and only heard it was him after the fact. (28:13) [Ed. note: Pyle
was killed on Ie Shima, a small island near Okinawa, and by a sniper rather than by mortar fire.]
Correspondents were unusual; he only saw a few of them. (29:12)
He was at Okinawa for about a week. (29:27)
He saw very little of the natives, they took very few prisoners. Most of the Japanese troops
preferred death to capture. (29:37)
More on the Atom Bomb
At the time, he didn't know he was guarding the atom bombs. He was very confused afterward;
he could not comprehend the scale of destruction. (30:11)
He had thought they were going to invade Japan. (31:37)
When the war ended, the men experienced “great joy.” (31:51)
There was no drinking allowed in the Marines, and there was no real way to celebrate on the
island. Most of the men resorted to yelling as a celebration. (32:05)
A week or two later, he was sent do occupy Japan, as part of the treaty provisions. His unit
occupied Nagasaki. (32:45)
Nagasaki had been reduced to rubble. Some parts were left standing, but there were no people.
(33:06)
They used tents on the ground and tried to camp away from the bomb site, in a forest or on the
beach. (32:33)
There were two to four men to a tent. (34:00)
He was in Nagasaki for about two months. (34:08)
Then he was sent to Isahaya, then Obama for the remainder. (34:16)
Obama
Obama had been a resort during peace-time. (34:04)
There was a hotel, and various entertainment businesses. (34:50)
There was a nearby town called Unsen, which had a large sulfur spring. The sulfur spring in
�
Obama was smaller. (35:01)
The spring water was piped into the hotel. (35:30)
His job was to make sure there was no trouble. (35:31)
There was usually not much trouble to worry about. (34:45)
He was part of the MP force. He trained for the position for about a week. (36:01)
He was to watch the American troops, make sure they didn't get in trouble. (36:10)
The Japanese police were very good at keeping order. They were a reliable contact if any
Japanese civilians caused problems. (36:36)
The American MPs had no power over the civilians. (36:39)
He got to know many of the civilians very well, as they were very friendly. (36:24)
The Americans were often invited into households for Japanese holidays, especially their New
Year. (37:10)
He was very surprised at their pleasant reception among the civilians. Discharged Japanese
soldiers were very hostile however. (37:43)
The civilian population was mostly relieved the war was over, and many of them had been
opposed to the war. (38:12)
Many Japanese citizens spoke English, which helped as most of the Americans did not speak
Japanese well. (38:45)
He remembers the civilians as friendly and helpful. He felt sorry for them. (38:51)
He learned a lot about himself, learned discipline, and met many nice people during his career
in the Marines. (39:25)
Believes the Marines have the most rigorous training of any branch of service. (39:45)
He was very glad the war was over. (40:04)
Disc Two (36:31)
(00:30) Marine Photographer
There were picture sets available to all those in the division for a price [this was discussed
because Bernhardt bought a set of photos from Saipan from a Marine photographer, and this set
is included in his file for this project—Bernhardt also states that he was in one of the pictures,
which was how he met the photographer]
Service men were not allowed to have a camera and there was nowhere to purchase film
Fred was able to purchase a nice German camera from a man in Japan
He patrolled Japanese towns all day and was then allowed to go sightseeing with his camera
once his shift was up
They stayed in a nice Japanese hotel with great Japanese food
(8:20) Unsen, Japan
This as a large, beautiful resort town
They had community baths that were very hot and large
Fred and others watched stage shows that were similar to American plays
There were about 35 men in the unit, but not a lot of other military police in the area
(14:45) Former Soldiers
There were many discharged Japanese soldiers that were not friendly to the American soldiers
They would not talk to the American soldiers or even look them in the eyes
A civilian who had seen the bomb go off from in the mountains about 20 miles away told him
that they had no idea what was going on and it was like the end of the world
� Many Japanese men were trying to get American soldiers to date their daughters and take them
back to America
Some men did bring back women to the US
(18:20) Duties in Japan
Fred had been working with the military police and keeping an eye on American soldiers
The Japanese police watched the civilians and they were all pretty tough
Fred spent 9 months in Japan while Nagasaki was being rebuilt
(24:00) Transport Ship back to the US
The ship was crowded and the men had to sleep on cots
They stopped in Hawaii to refuel and this time Fred did not get sea sick
They landed back in San Diego and he traveled to the Great Lakes Naval base in Chicago
(26:20) Life after the Service
Fred went back to visit his friends and took some time off
He did not even look for a job for about two months
He began working at the American Seating Company for about a year
Fred was then an apprentice for four years doing iron work and he eventually got his
journeyman papers
(29:15) Photography
Fred joined the Grand Rapids Camera Club and became more interested in the subject
It had been a hobby, but everyone he knew had encouraged him to turn it into a career
He began taking other photography classes and joined the Professional Photographers of
America
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BernhardtF
Title
A name given to the resource
Bernhardt, Fred (Interview outline and video, 1 of 2), 2007
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Bernhardt, Fred
Description
An account of the resource
Fred Bernhardt enlisted in the Marines at the age of 17 in early 1944. He served in the Pacific Theater of WWII as an artillery observer for naval bombardments. He also served as a guard of the atomic bomb which was dropped on Nagasaki, and was part of the post-war occupation force as an MP in the Nagasaki area.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Marine Corps
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2007-11-13
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a0e2fb6efc2e758b09a85b43f1fbf15d.mp4
63d96de2cb201b7a33020247ccf08645
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/91fb42150d57b30e18e2baa9f0abba6f.pdf
f79fb89a76c83cc658f23d172ca425f8
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Name of Interviewee: Fred Bernhardt
Name of War: World War II
Length of Interview (00:36:31)
Disc Two
(00:30) Marine Photographer
There were picture sets available to all those in the division for a price [this was discussed
because Bernhardt bought a set of photos from Saipan from a Marine photographer, and this set
is included in his file for this project—Bernhardt also states that he was in one of the pictures,
which was how he met the photographer]
Service men were not allowed to have a camera and there was nowhere to purchase film
Fred was able to purchase a nice German camera from a man in Japan
He patrolled Japanese towns all day and was then allowed to go sightseeing with his camera
once his shift was up
They stayed in a nice Japanese hotel with great Japanese food
(8:20) Unsen, Japan
This as a large, beautiful resort town
They had community baths that were very hot and large
Fred and others watched stage shows that were similar to American plays
There were about 35 men in the unit, but not a lot of other military police in the area
(14:45) Former Soldiers
There were many discharged Japanese soldiers that were not friendly to the American soldiers
They would not talk to the American soldiers or even look them in the eyes
A civilian who had seen the bomb go off from in the mountains about 20 miles away told him
that they had no idea what was going on and it was like the end of the world
Many Japanese men were trying to get American soldiers to date their daughters and take them
back to America
Some men did bring back women to the US
(18:20) Duties in Japan
Fred had been working with the military police and keeping an eye on American soldiers
The Japanese police watched the civilians and they were all pretty tough
Fred spent 9 months in Japan while Nagasaki was being rebuilt
(24:00) Transport Ship back to the US
The ship was crowded and the men had to sleep on cots
They stopped in Hawaii to refuel and this time Fred did not get sea sick
They landed back in San Diego and he traveled to the Great Lakes Naval base in Chicago
(26:20) Life after the Service
Fred went back to visit his friends and took some time off
He did not even look for a job for about two months
� He began working at the American Seating Company for about a year
Fred was then an apprentice for four years doing iron work and he eventually got his
journeyman papers
(29:15) Photography
Fred joined the Grand Rapids Camera Club and became more interested in the subject
It had been a hobby, but everyone he knew had encouraged him to turn it into a career
He began taking other photography classes and joined the Professional Photographers of
America
�Left to right: Fred Bernhardt and Jeep; Joe Pannella, R. Summers, E. A. Spellman
Fred Bernhardt as MP, Japan
�Fred Bernhardt discovering native family in hiding on Saipan after the capture of the island.
�Nagasaki
���������������
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BernhardtF2
Title
A name given to the resource
Bernhardt, Fred (Interview outline and video, 2 of 2), 2007
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Bernhardt, Fred
Description
An account of the resource
Fred Bernhardt enlisted in the Marines at the age of 17 in early 1944. He served in the Pacific Theater of WWII as an artillery observer for naval bombardments. He also served as a guard of the atomic bomb which was dropped on Nagasaki, and was part of the post-war occupation force as an MP in the Nagasaki area.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Marine Corps
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2007-11-13
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aa37dd1a51956687017c4e7498ad0a54.mp4
cc540ff1dba92500cd66c5298a06a8bd
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/70148c7bde60817b17a403a975d1261a.pdf
22426a7e2e4fdaa16971491f33ba5379
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Iraqi War
Jeremy Binder
Length of Interview 1:55:38
0:00:11 Background
• Born: October 30, 1978, in Benton Harbor, Michigan (0:00:15)
• Moved to Bridgman, Michigan in 1989 (0:00:30)
• Father worked at die cast shop, Mother worked as dental hygienist assistant (0:00:45)
• Graduated high school with acting scholarship to local Community College (0:01:10)
• Dropped out of college after first year to work (0:01:40)
• Held various jobs before joining Marines (0:02:00)
0:07:20 Enlistment
• Joined when he heard about young soldiers dying in Iraq (0:06:00)
• Felt he could be a good leader to the young soldiers (0:06:31)
• Enlisted June 17, 2003 at age 22 (0:07:04)
• Went to Marine Corp Recruitment Center (MCRD) in San Diego, California (0:07:15)
• Wanted to be demolition expert due to electrician background (0:08:30)
• Put in infantry training Platoon 1006, Charlie Company (0:11.10)
0:13:00 Training
• There for 13 weeks with 3 phases of basic training (0:13:45)
• 1st phase tested mental toughness, taught discipline, got yelled at (0:14:25)
• 2nd phase more physical workouts, hikes, night operations (0:18:20)
• 3rd phase graduation, learned parade marches (0:18:50)
• After basic training, shipped to Camp Pendleton, California (0:22:00)
• Learned how to use more heavy weaponry (0:22:30)
• Bit by a brown recluse spider and against doctor order completed 20 mile hike (0:23:27)
• Assigned military enlisted job (MOS) to be demolition engineer (0:27:20)
0:30:00 Demolition Training
• Assigned to 2nd Battalion 7th Marines, which was scheduled for deployment to Iraq
(0:30:16)
• Shipped to 29 Palms, California, for specialized training (0:31:06)
• Desert environment prepared them for Iraq (0:31:20)
• Most time was spent cleaning weapons (0:32:16)
• Kept updated on events in Middle East (0:33:30)
• One of original squads to protect battalion commander (0:35:56)
• Weapons company used .50 caliber machine gun, grenades, and demolition equipment
(0:36:20)
• Feb 3, 2004 shipped to Iraq (0:39:00)
�0:40:00 Active Duty
• Took Delta jet to Prague, Prague to Kuwait, then to Iraq (0:39:15)
• Drove to Al-Assad Air Force Base (0:43:32)
• #1 concern is keeping Battalion commander alive (0:47:00)
• Drove around a lot, change routine every time (0:45:44)
• On the move all the time, hardly any downtime (0:46:30)
• Enemy very clever, always new strategies (0:51:40)
• Saw a lot of civilians, mostly stayed away from Americans (0:59:00)
0:48:00 Notable Events
• Rear driver on convoy down Military Server Road(MSR) (0:48:07)
• Night operation convoy on black out (no lights) (0:48:20)
• Saw explosion in rear view mirror, pull over and ready for combat (0:48:37)
• IED explosion that had missed mark due to blackout (0:50:14)
• Enemy use firefight to keep you in position until RPGs and mortars come (1:09:39)
• After a while firefights stopped and only IEDs were used (1:09:50)
• Enemy was mostly farmers or locals who were blackmailed/bribed (1:10:24)
1:12:00 Injury
• May 1, 2004 around 6am (1:12:25)
• Local police colonel was informing insurgents of vehicle routes (1:12:40)
• Mission to detain police colonel and appoint a new one (1:12:50)
• Battalion commander and interpreter went inside to talk to colonel (1:13:30)
• Incoming sniper fire caused unit to take cover (1:13:48)
• About 30 min later explosion from behind (1:14:20)
• Tried to raise weapons, but couldn’t move right arm (1:15:30)
• Didn’t know he was wounded, comrade told him he was bleeding (1:16:07)
• Hit by debris, Chunk of arm was missing, brachial artery was severed (1:18:50)
• Felt dehydrated, arm felt on fire (1:20:00)
• Comrade made tunicate out of sleeve, still wanted to fight (1:21:39)
1:22:00 Recovery
• Sent to hospital at Al-Assad AFB (1:22:35)
• Felt weak like he was ready to pass out (1:24:30)
• Had to graft nerves and skin from leg to arm (1:25:50)
• Sent to Baghdad hospital for 24 hours (1:26:50)
• From Baghdad flown to hospital in Germany for 3 days (1:29:39)
• While recovering in Germany met Arnold Schwarzenegger and Charlie Daniels (1:29:45)
• Flew to California, wound was left open to heal itself (1:31:50)
• Nerves never recovered fully, arm looks like turkey skin (1:32:00)
• Lost 14cm of median nerve, 14.5 cm of ulnar nerve, 13.5cm of brachial artery (1:33:00)
�1:36:00 Post service
• Debilitating injury left him unfit to be a Marine (1:36:15)
• Went back to school to earn college degree (1:41:25)
• Marine Corps mentality stuck with him throughout life (1:41:47)
• Associates degree in communication from Lake Michigan Community College (1:42:20)
• Majored in Public Administration at Grand Valley State University (1:42:26)
• Wanted to be a veterans service counselor, and now does this in Allegan County,
Michigan (1:42:54)
• Help veterans deal with demons and talk about their experiences (1:43:09)
• Has the pair of boots he was wearing with blood stains on them(1:55:00)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BinderJ1384V
Title
A name given to the resource
Binder, Jeremy (Interview outline and video), 2012
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Binder, Jeremy
Description
An account of the resource
Jeremy Binder was born in Benton Harbon, Michigan in 1978, and grew up in the area. After high school, he tried college briefly and then held various jobs before enlisted in the Marine Corps in 2003. After training in San Diego and Camp Pendleton, California, he joined the 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines and took demolitions training with them at 29 Palms, California, while awaiting transfer to Iraq. They flew to Iraq in February, 2004, and he served as part of the squad that guarded the battalion commander. He was wounded in May, and was injured badly enough that he could not return to active duty. He now works as a counselor for veterans.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.)
BCTV
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Marine Corps
Iraq War, 2003--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012-05-22
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/46bd2f4efdc57a35244c0aea21707d27.mp4
852923b0ba5baf813abe281a7840fded
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/20a086e3e3e611c0e04b24e68d42e7ef.pdf
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PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Nelson Birman
(43:53)
Background Information (00:30)
Born June 19th, 1936 in Battle Creek, Michigan. (00:39)
Served in the U.S. Marine Corps, 1954-1957. (00:50)
He joined the Marine Corps a few weeks after he graduated from high school. (2:19)
His father worked as a tool and die maker. (3:25)
He attended school in Battle Creek and went to high school at Hickory Creek High School. (3:35)
He graduated from Hastings High School in 1954. He transferred there after he moved. (3:45)
He has 3 brothers. (3:56)
His younger brother committed suicide in 1951. (4:14)
When he was young, Nelson wanted to become a pilot. (5:00)
Nelson volunteered with 2 of his friends in 1954. (5:33)
Nelson joined the Marine Corps due to its reputation and his interest in growing up and
becoming independent. (8:00)
Basic Training (8:22)
Basic training lasted 12 weeks. (8:25)
He recalls how unpredictable and strict his drill sergeant was. He prepared the men to be ready
at every moment to take an order. (8:35)
Because Nelson did not make his bed tight enough one day, his rack was torn apart by his drill
instructor. (9:29)
Nelson was made an instructor later in his service. Because of this he became close friends with
many of his fellow service men. (10:05)
After basic training he Nelson was sent to Treasure Island in San Francisco Bay for electronics
and radio training school from the Navy. (10:34)
Service at Camp Pendleton (10:39)
After graduating radio school Nelson was sent to Camp Pendleton, California where he was
given a jeep and made a radio operator. (10:40)
25-31 was his MOS. (11:00)
He was at times asked to be a bodyguard for the commandant and a guide for celebrities that
came to entertain the soldiers. (11:18)
He served as an instructor at Camp Pendleton. He trained on rifles and hand grenades. (12:12)
He served on a Marine Corps shooting team. (13:40)
He was never based overseas. He did practice landings on beaches. (14:29)
While crawling under barbed wire and live ammunition, Nelson was struck by a ricochet shot in
the left hip. (15:23)
Nelson was on a strike force, if the order came he could be overseas in less than 24 hours.
(16:39)
�
He was assigned to the 1st Marine Division, 1st Service Regiment. (17:20)
Nelson was rapidly promoted to Sergeant while in the service. (17:55)
The men Nelson trained on hand grenade would often panic when realizing the power of the
weapon in their hand. There were some close calls with weaker men while in training. (19:10)
Nelson also trained men on the flamethrower.(20:05)
He was awarded the National Defense Service Ribbon and Medal, the Good Conduct Medal, and
a High Expert for Shooting Medal. (20:56)
Life in the Service (21:54)
Camp Pendleton had a rodeo. The stars of the television series Gunsmoke were brought in to
appear at the rodeo. (22:00)
On one occasion Camp Pendleton was surrounded on three sides by a fire. All Marines not on
special duty were assigned to fight the fire. (24:00)
Nelson was very impressed with the officers and instructors he had. (25:01)
There were many Marines Nelson encountered that had half hearted outlooks on their military
service. (25:25)
He was somewhat disappointed that he was never served overseas. (25:50)
Nelson married Ruth with one year left of his active service. (26:34)
After he was married Nelson lived in Oceanside. (27:24)
Life after Service (27:55)
He was discharged before his time was complete in 1957. (28:00)
After being discharged from the Marine Corps. Nelson attended Western Michigan University
under the G.I. bill and studied electronics and automation. He graduated with an associate’s
degree in 1960. (28:20)
Nelson and his wife lived in Battle Creek. (28:40)
After college Nelson had several part time jobs. He then was employed by the postal service and
retired after 40 years of service there. (30:03)
He retired in 2004. (31:00)
He was also on the Bedford Michigan Rescue Squad. (31:38)
Nelson was a very skilled archery man and a member of the Michigan Bow Hunters. (32:35)
Nelson was remarried in 1995. (33:25)
His second wife died in 2010. (33:49)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BirmanN1346V
Title
A name given to the resource
Birman, Nelson (Interview outline and video), 2012
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Birman, Nelson
Description
An account of the resource
Nelson Birman, born June 19th 1936 in Battle Creek Michigan, served in the U.S. Marines Corps. from 1954-1957. Nelson spent his military career as an instructor, instructing soldiers on rifles, hand grenades, flamethrowers, and bayonets. He also was a gifted rifleman who served on a Marine Corps. shooting team.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Erichsen, Wallace (Interviewer)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Marine Corps
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012-01-25
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4