1
12
129
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cdf1ab4ca2e9169931e39b1c3eef8237.mp4
654d3f05c4e3e47b8451d711830eaa7f
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d0e62bbd9b451f652400723c17917635.pdf
e300edc26d03bcb85dfacc98f26cd4e7
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Carol Sutton
Interview Length: (20.23)
Interviewed by Dr. James Smither
Transcribed by Chloe Dingens
Interviewer: This interview is a joint production of WKTV voices, the Grand Valley State
University Veterans History Project, and the Silversides Museum in Muskegon, Michigan. We
are in fact at the Silversides Museum in Muskegon and we're talking first with Carole Sutton of
Muskegon. So, Carol, begin with some background on yourself and to begin with where and
when were you born.
I was born in Davis, West Virginia in February 23, 1940.
Interviewer: Okay and did you grow up there, or did you move around?
(1.02)
I grew up there until I was 18, then I went to the University and then transferred there to
Frances Payne Bolton School of Nursing in Cleveland, Ohio.
Interviewer: Okay, so let's back up a little bit, what was your family doing for a living when you
were growing up?
My dad originally worked in the mines and then he became an engineer on the railroad
and we had a garage and my brother-in-law ran that when my father was away.
�Interviewer: Okay and so with that, that helped you be able to finish stay in high school and then
go on to college? As they could afford to do that.
Right.
Interviewer: Alright and then what did you study in college?
Well I started out with basic courses towards my medical degree, and then I decided maybe
I don't want to do that, maybe I'll just be a nurse.
Interviewer: Okay so you were thinking about being a doctor?
Right and then I decided maybe math and chemistry were not my forte alright so..
Interviewer: So, did you then basically do pre-nursing or?
Yes.
Interviewer: Okay but you did not get it, you weren't yet a nurse at the point when you finished
there?
No.
�Interviewer: Okay and so when did you leave college?
(2.13)
I graduated in 1963 okay and then I took a trip with some friends to Europe and- and then
we drove down and flew to North Africa and traveled around through the Middle East.
Interviewer: Okay.
And after that I joined the Air Force.
Interviewer: Alright so, I mean how did you wind up making that extended tour?
Well a friend of mine had a father that was in the Air Force in Tripoli, North Africa and so
we decided we want to go on a trip. So, we started saving our money and every time I
wanted to spend more money my friend would say, “remember we're going on a trip.” So,
it was a fantastic trip. We took a freighter to Europe and all young people were on it and a
young captain and it was a great experience.
Interviewer: Alright now was it just a group of- of women traveling together or did you have
some men?
No there were I think a couple people were men and one was going back home to Holland
and another to Germany, but I think there were more women.
�Interviewer: Okay but there was a whole group of you?
Yes, well the freighter only holds 12, so we had 11. Someone canceled at the last minute.
Interviewer: Okay how long did the trip on the freighter take?
(3.34)
Oh, gee it's been so long ago it was probably nine days or something.
Interviewer: Okay they do have decent weather or?
Oh, they said it was the nicest crossing that they’d had, and I thought well I wonder about
that, because you're still like this when you see the sky on one side and then the other.
Interviewer: Alright and so what countries did you visit?
We went all through Europe, like we ended in Belgium and then we went to Germany, and
France, and Belgium, Italy, and then we turned the car in and then flew to North Africa
where my friend's parents were and stayed there while right on the Mediterranean
enjoying the water. And then we went to Egypt, and Lebanon, Greece... it's so hard to
remember when all of a sudden, I start to think about it.
�Interviewer: Oh yeah, and I guess at that point the dollar was pretty strong.
(4.32)
Oh, it was very strong.
Interviewer: So, you could afford to do that kind of thing, you go a decade later it would have
been a little bit trickier.
Of course, salaries were less too.
Interviewer: Yeah. Alright so you kind of had your- your World Tour adventure and then you
came back and then nursing school was the next stop?
No, I'd already finished school.
Interviewer: Okay.
…and then I went to the Air Force, but we went to basic training in Montgomery, Alabama
which was a farce at that time for officers. They wanted us to at least be able to go through
the parade and the captain would say, “come on ladies we have to do this.” I mean it was so
lax and fun.
5.16
�Interviewer: Just to clarify, did you get through nursing training at West Virginia or was that at?
Well I did two years pre-West Virginia and three at Cleveland Ohio.
Interviewer: Right right, okay and then so you do that then you take your trip.
Right.
Interviewer: Okay how did you wind up joining the Air Force?
Well I planned to join the Navy and two of my friends decided, one to get married another
to go to Texas. So, I thought “hmm okay.” I just called up the Air Force recruiter, he came
right over. That's how it started.
Interviewer: Okay, and so then when do you actually arrive in Montgomery for your...
It was May sixty-five.
Interviewer: Sixty-five.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay and is this Maxwell Air Force Base or?
�Yes.
Interviewer: Okay alright and the group that you're training with were they all women?
They- that was their class that had the most women of any of them, lucky for us there were
two men. And they had like psychologists and most of them were nurses. I can't remember
what the other one did but...
(6.25)
Interviewer: Okay and then just to clarify you're going in basically as an officer?
Right second lieutenant to start with.
Interviewer: Because nurses are all officers. Did they explain to you why you got to come in as
an officer?
No, I just seemed to know that you know, from being around a lot of people in the military.
Interviewer: Okay now that the basic training that you got, what did that actually consist of?
Well we did a camp out and went out in the swamps and found, what would you call it?
Like you'd find a little wooden things that would tell you where to go next, or I'm not
�trying to think what, not ingredients what you call it, coordinates or something. And that
was… and we didn't do too much. Met in the mornings and went over things all together.
And the campout was fun though.
Interviewer: Alright I mean did they try to- try to train you how to march or anything like that?
Just that part so that we could at least be in the parade at the end of the… the experience.
(7.37)
Interviewer: Okay, now sometimes for the men, at least for the enlisted men there's a lot of
attention to kind of the spit-and-polish. And how to wear the uniform and how to clean things.
Did you get some of that?
None of that.
Interviewer: Okay, they had just given up or weren’t trying?
I think at that time you know you're gonna be a nurse, and they didn't really think about
you're going out like to Vietnam like some of them went.
Interviewer: Yeah and of course in 65 it wasn't yet clear how much of that there was going to be,
because it's only beginning to escalate at that point. Alright now when you went there while you
�were training there did you consider the possibility that you might go overseas, or do you want to
go overseas?
Well I didn't really think about it at that time.
Interviewer: Okay, alright so once you've finished the basic training where do they send you?
To Wilford Hall, Lackland Air Force Base.
Interviewer: Okay Lackland is a big base in San Antonio.
Right, where they train.
Interviewer: Okay and then when you- what kind of reception do you get when you arrive there?
Well I was pretty nervous, but everybody was, you know, we already knew where we were
going to be in Wilford Hall, but it was just like anything else it's a little nerve-wracking to
start with until you adjust and kind of get your feet on the ground there.
(8.51)
Interviewer: Okay did they do anything to orient you or help you get acquainted with the place or
do they just, just you know…
�As far as I remember they orient you to where different areas are because it's a big area.
Interviewer: Okay, now describe the facility itself, what was Wilford like? how big was it? what
was there?
It was pretty big, I can't remember now what all was there, but I know I got assigned to
OB and gynecology. So, I spent most of my time there.
Interviewer: Okay and assumedly a lot of the patients were the wives of the men based there?
Right right right.
Okay and what kind of living accommodations did you have?
(9.33)
Oh, I lived in an apartment with two other girls.
Interviewer: Okay so you've got to be off the base?
Right.
Interviewer: Okay and did you have a car?
�Yes.
Interviewer: Okay and what was the daily routine like?
Well as far as my work?
Interviewer: Yep.
Well I started out being on days, just for a while to get oriented like. As being a nurse I
never drew blood before, so they sent me right to the lab to draw blood and my first patient
was a doctor and I missed on the first time. But after that then I didn't go there anymore
because we would draw the patient's blood just like their him hemoglobin hematocrit
would be drawn and sent down to the lab.
Interviewer: Okay and so then normally once you're-you’re in there what are you doing day-today?
Well just taking care of the patients, you know.
Interviewer: So essentially the same kinds of things nurses-
That you do in a regular hospital, yes.
�Interviewer: Okay now were there things about that job that made a different from being in a
civilian hospital?
I think pretty much the same at that time, because now they do so much more than we did
back then.
Interviewer: Okay and you said you worked days to begin with?
Yeah and then I was on evenings and nights depending on what your schedule was.
(11.02)
Interviewer: Okay and how long would the shifts be?
Back then it was only eight hours.
Interviewer: alright and then was it five days a week or six?
We had every third weekend off. So, it varied during the week.
Interviewer: alright and what was what- what was the atmosphere like there, just in terms of
being a young woman living in a place like this. I mean how did people treat you or…
�I don't think they treated me any different than most people do. I get along pretty well as
most people anyway. But I remember back then we had one nurse that was talking about,
she was so sad she couldn't go march with Martin Luther King back then.
Interviewer: Now was this facility, was this integrated? Did you have black nurses there?
Oh yeah, she was a black nurse.
Interviewer: okay and with their a fair number of black personnel on the base?
Oh yes.
Interviewer: Okay now this is still Texas in 1965-66.
Right yes.
Interviewer: When you go off the base were you aware at all of racial tensions or things like
that?
No.
(12.13)
�Interviewer: Okay so it just wasn't... and by then I guess you don't have segregated drinking
fountains or anything like that?
No, but one of the girls from the South certainly let us know how our northerners did not
know about being in the South.
Interviewer: Well what kind- were their customs or things that you weren't aware of? I mean
aside from the race issue that…
No.
Interviewer: Okay. Alright, now when you went into the Air Force how long did you expect to
stay?
I was expecting to be a career woman.
(12.49)
Interviewer: Okay.
And then I met my husband.
Interviewer: Okay.
�He was working, well on the labor and delivery unit and someone told him there was a tall
nurse over there. So, he came over to see who it was and talked to me off and on, and then I
thought, well I kind of liked him. So, I invited him over.
Interviewer: What were the rules for- for fraternization?
Well they were a little more strict then. And Michael had to get a, when we were going to
get married, he had to get some type of release that said, like “first lieutenant Carol Anne
Sutton” you know, and his name and everything. And they told him he can't go to the
officer's club and he said, “oh gee maybe I won't get married then.” He got into a little
trouble for that.
Interviewer: But it was- it was still allowable, it wasn't totally forbidden.
Yeah, right. They didn't encourage it of course.
(13.49)
Interviewer: Yeah well, the stereotype that you get at least for like a TV show MASH or things
like this. Is it's the nurses and the doctors are carrying on and so forth and you- you wind up with
an enlisted man?
Yeah.
�Interviewer: Now was that actually more common for if the nurses were gonna get involved they
might be getting lovely enlisted rather than doctors?
No, I think whatever.
(14.15)
Interviewer: Okay because I have had a nurse explain to me at some point that the enlisted men
were more your own age and had more in common with you, and the doctors were older and too
many were married. So, they shouldn't be doing anything.
Right.
Interviewer: Okay but this just kind of happened? Alright and then how does- so you- so when
do you get married?
We got married in July of 66 and then 11 months later he went to Vietnam.
Interviewer: Okay and then what did you do while he was in Vietnam?
Work!
Interviewer: Okay, so you just stayed on?
�Right.
Interviewer: Alright now were you working longer than your contractual obligation? because
when you signed up…
Yeah, yeah you- I believe it was two years.
Interviewer: Okay, so you signed up and you had to be full-time active duty for two years.
Right at least.
Interviewer: Okay but you wind up extending and then staying for a third because at that point
you might as well?
(15.12)
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer: Alright and then while he was in, well I guess how did you feel about him going to
Vietnam?
I wasn't too happy about it because of course you're newly married and all in love and
excited and you worry that they're not coming back.
�Interviewer: Alright and then how much communication did you have with him while he was
overseas?
Well letters and then we used to send tapes and one time he was teasing me about I'm
talking about the rain and romantic and here he's sitting in a monsoon.
Interviewer: Alright and so that basically goes on for sort of your last year?
Yeah.
Interviewer: And then when he comes back from the service, now what happens?
Well we met in Hawaii after eight months or close to nine I think and then he came back in
68.
Interviewer: Okay so he had an R&R; to go to Hawaii.
Right.
Interviewer: And I don't know when he came out for the R&R; was he any different than he was
when he left?
(16.15)
�No, no at least I didn't see it
Interviewer: Okay, alright and then when he does come back, then do you leave the Navy or go
in reserves or what?
Yes.
Interviewer: Okay and then once he comes back where do you wind up living?
Trying to think, was it Austin? Yes, yeah that's right yeah.
Interviewer: Okay and then he stayed in the Air Force?
No, he got out for I don't know if it's a year or two and then he went back in.
Interviewer: Okay and then did that put you then into the life of the military wife?
Before he went back in, I just worked as a nurse at the health center at University of Texas.
Interviewer: Okay and then he does go back in and you just follow him around to his
assignments and so forth?
Right.
�Interviewer: Alright when you think over the time that you spent, you know in the service are
there particular incidents or people or memories that kind of stand out for you?
You mean during all the times we were...
Interviewer: Well actually the time you were actually on active duty first.
Okay, no it was pretty standard right then you know, just doing our jobs and having fun
with friends on the weekends or whenever we're off okay.
Interviewer: Now you're at the base, you're at that hospital from 65 to 68 and that is a point
where of course Vietnam ramps up a lot.
Right.
(17.48)
Interviewer: Did you- did that affect the kind of business that you had at the hospital? I mean
were there casualties who would come back to that facility?
Well like I said I was in the OB/GYN most- all the time.
�Interviewer: Yeah, I know, were you aware what was going on at all or that these people were
coming in?
Yeah.
Interviewer: okay and did you pay any attention to things like the anti-war movement that was
going on or?
I really didn't pay too much attention to that.
Interviewer: Okay and did you follow the news of the war while your husband was over?
Right and I thought we shouldn't be there.
Interviewer: Okay and were there ever situations where you got news reports and you were
wondering was, he in the middle of that?
Not too much really. because a lot of the women that were there having babies and things,
you'd hear a lot about any of their husbands that were gone, and I can't recall any of them
that had a husband that had died. Because you had people coming in and out and…
Interviewer: Right, alright and I guess to look back on the time and the service, but aside from
getting you a husband, how do you think that affected you? or or or what did you learn from it?
�From being in the military you mean?
Interviewer: Yup.
Well like I said I had plan to be a career woman because I had seen so much camaraderie
when we were at the airbase in Tripoli, North Africa and that's why I thought I would like
to do that and have that camaraderie with other women that are staying in.
(19.30)
Interviewer: Alright and...
And that's what originally had gotten me to the point of going in really.
Interviewer: Okay and it did it work out that way?
Yes, but I ended up not being a career woman, not in the military.
Interviewer: Alright did you continue to work as a nurse or did you- after all that, so did you
work as a nurse in different places where he was assigned?
Yes.
�Interviewer: Okay, alright and so then and when did you retire from nursing?
Oh in 2000 when I lost my leg, we're still looking for it.
Interviewer: Okay, alright but that was not a service-related injury.
No, I should have told people it was.
Interviewer: Yeah make it much better.
Or a shark story.
Interviewer: Alright well thank you very much then for taking the time to share the story today.
You’re welcome.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_SuttonC2308V
Title
A name given to the resource
Sutton, Carol (Interview transcript and video), 2019
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-06-07
Description
An account of the resource
Carol Sutton of Muskegon was born in Davis, West Virginia on February 23, 1940. She went to Frances Payne Bolton School of Nursing in Cleveland, Ohio, as well as West Virginia University after high school. After graduating in 1963, Sutton went on an extended international trip before joining the Air Force. In May of 1965, she underwent Basic Training in Montgomery, Alabama, and graduated as a Second Lieutenant since she was a nurse. She was then stationed at Wilford Hall in Lackland Air Force Base, San Antonio, where she met her husband in the labor and delivery unit of the hospital. They got married in July of 1966 before her husband was deployed to Vietnam. After his return in 1968, the couple moved to Austin, Texas and they both left the service. Sutton then worked as a nurse at the health center at the University of Texas before retiring in 2000.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Sutton, Carol Ann
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401.
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/36b6ebab4a0a88e5e58853a1be007228.mp4
b674823532fe1c87c3cb08fcb26dd975
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1104220a490c41ebc35fc40000451b26.pdf
ece8ea84db1a5768dcea7d166edd1aa5
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Evelyn Tolley Buckingham, United States Air Force
Interviewee: Linda Namenye
Interview Length: (46.08)
Interviewed by Dr. James Smither
Transcribed by Chloe Dingens
Interviewer: We're talking today with Linda Namenye of Spring Lake, Michigan and the
interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project.
Now we're doing something a little bit different from normal here because we're actually talking
about Linda's mother, was Evelyn Tolley Buckingham who served in The United States Air
Force. She's no longer with us, but she wrote an account of her story and Linda knows a good
deal about it, so we are going to put that story together with through a recombination of Linda's
memories and what her mother wrote. All right now one thing your mother did not write about
was anything about her life really before going into the Air Force, so begin at the beginning.
Where and when was she born?
She was born in Madison, South Dakota and just think Little House on the Prairie. She
was... her father was a farmer, had lots of property outside of Madison. She grew up
during the depression but she said she never felt the- the effect- the effects of the depression
because her mother was an awesome seamstress, so her mother always made you know
clothes out of the- the burlap bags and- and such and they always had food because they
lived on the farm and weren't really connected to this to the- to the city. Madison is only
about four thousand people.
Interviewer: Okay now did they own their farm?
�Yes, they did yes.
Interviewer: Were they able to keep that through the 30s?
No actually the bank did take it over for about ten years. It used to belong to my greatgrandfather and then he lost it and it went back to the bank, but my grandfather continued
to farm it and then he purchased it back from the bank after those ten years. So, it's been
in the- it's been in the family for about a hundred years now.
(2.23)
Interviewer: Okay so there's still a family member who's farming it now?
Yes.
Interviewer: Alright, and what kind of schooling did she have?
She went to a one-room school house until she was about 8th grade and she said it was...
she loved the learning because she was the only student in her class and so many times the
teacher would say ya know, “Evelyn come sit in with the... you know the next oldest class
and come sit in with us,” and so she learned to love to read and she used to read the
dictionary at night because it was just something fun; learning new words and such. So, she
was at a one-room schoolhouse until high school and then she went in town. The one-room
�schoolhouse was only a mile away from where her farm was, and then- and then after, for
high school she went in town to a regular high school.
Interviewer: Okay and how far was that from home?
It was about three miles, and I'm not sure how she got there. She had another sister- she
was number three out of four children, she had another sister who was two and a half years
older so I'm not sure whether her sister Shirley drove them into town. I'm sure they didn't
walk into town because it was all country roads.
Interviewer: So that wasn't all walking ten miles to school kind of thing.
On no definitely to the one room school house it was blizzards and it was uphill both ways
and yeah.
Interviewer: Alight now did she tell any stories about life during World War II when she would
have been still in school at that point.
(3.58)
Yes, she wanted to go into service and that's what makes her stories so- to me so unique is
that she wanted to go into the service, she wanted to serve her country she wanted to see
the world and she wanted to go into the Air Force because there was the capability of going
all over the world. So, when she graduated from high school, she wanted to go into the
�service but at that time she had to be 21 to go in on her own. Graduating at 18 she would
need her parent's permission, and they would not sign for her.
Interviewer: I guess it was asking a little bit about before that when she was still younger, when
World War II was still going on? Did she kind of say anything about what life was like they ever
talk about rationing or anything else like that?
Not... well she never felt those effects because she lived on a farm and my grandpa got extra
rations for- for fuel, because he was a farmer. She just didn't feel, she just didn't feel the
rationings part of it. She just always said that she- she wanted to do something for her
country. She wanted to serve her country.
Interviewer: And you don't really have a sense of exactly when that feeling started for her?
Late high school, I know that when she graduated from high school, she wanted to go into
the service, but grandma and grandpa said no.
Interviewer: Okay what year did she finish high school?
She graduated in 49.
(5.22)
�Interviewer: Okay alright and so she wants, she wants to go in the service and her parents were
saying no so what does he do at that point?
She stayed in town and I know she had a variety of jobs. I know that she worked as a
typesetter in- for the newspaper. So, she had jobs, but her sights were on getting into the
service, and as soon as she turned 21, she signed up.
Interviewer: alright and then- the, the air force offered her a chance to go different places and see
things. Did she, I suppose- I guess the opportunities were still kind of limited still for what
women could do in any branch of the service.
Very much so in the Air Force was a newer branch. It hadn't been officially recognized for
quite some time.
Interviewer: Yeah but like 1947 or something like that was one of they actually broke away from
the army and became its own service branch, and so they- and they were generally more
progressive they certainly were in terms of integration and things like that. So, they may have
been a little bit more open to having women doing things, and ultimately in the Air Force most
of you stay on the ground and they need a lot of support personnel
(6.30)
Right, right.
�Interviewer: Alright so now what did she- what do we know about the enlistment process or how
she went about getting in?
That I am not sure, she states...
Interviewer: How does she describe going in?
Okay, (reading) “after thinking of nothing else since in my teens I finally was old enough to
join the Air Force in February of 52. In those days you had to be 21 or have your parents
permission I thought that it was very unfair but now I see the wisdom of it I would have done
just what my parents did and that was say no. That was a really big decision to make and I
didn't really know what it entailed but throughout World War II I felt I needed to do
something. After a tearful goodbye at the train station in Madison I and my fellow enlistees
headed for Sioux Falls where we had physicals and we took the oath of enlistment. My fellow
enlistments- enlistees were all men that I knew from the Madison area. Several were younger
than I was, but they could enlist at 18. We were met at the train and put up at a local hotel. I
had never stayed at a hotel before.” She was a farm girl. “And I found myself on the fourth
floor all alone.” Because she was the only woman that was on that particular train there.
“The men had to double up which was good points, but I must admit I shed a tear or two.
What was ahead I really had no idea. The next morning, we went to South Dakota USA and
USAF recruiting service group and at the Wilson terminal and we got our physicals. After that
we had formal swearing in and then we were escorted to the train station and got on a military
car. I was the only woman, at least until we got to Omaha, Nebraska when Marilyn Mikkel
�joined us. We went to San Antonio, Texas by way of Kansas City we stayed on the same train
all the way picking up other men and women along the way. The women had a car to
ourselves and in no time we seemed to pick up new recruits at every station. at San Antonio we
were picked up by military buses and were taken to Lackland Air Force Base. My life was
going to change.” So, going from not hardly ever leaving Madison, to traveling completely
south, and she really wasn't- she really didn't know what she was getting herself into.
(8.58)
Interviewer: Right and she also- but she did also note in there that since World War II she had
been thinking about that. And then she also points out for us that men could- needed their
parents' permission when they were seventeen but once they're 18 then they could go.
Right.
Interviewer: But for women they did it differently.
For women it was different.
Interviewer: Alright okay so and that did she tell you anything else about- either saying the
physical or the induction process of the train ride beyond what you just read?
It was very formal, not a lot of talking and joking going on. I think everybody was just
trying to prepare themselves for what basic training was gonna be - was gonna be like.
�Interviewer: Okay.
And she was kind of a maverick as being- well she was the only woman until they got to
Kansas City?
Interviewer: To Omaha.
To Omaha, yeah. And then slowly picking up more and more women. So, it was uncharted
territory.
Interviewer: Now what does he tell us about training?
Training, oh my goodness, she said she always told me after meeting my father and
marrying him boot camp was the best thing that happened to her. she was third born and
very independent very much the Maverick. had no problem going against the- against the
grain and so here she is she's in a place far away and she's, she's being ordered around,
and she can't ask questions. So as far as the basic training… oh let's see.
Interviewer: Well I mean she's written her story, so I think we can kind of…
Right.
�Interviewer: So, does she have... what does she say after talk about getting to San Antonio what
does he put in next?
(10.53)
Okay, “we were given a nice welcome after being told to line up and something very few of us
had ever done. It was the beginning of a great adventure for me. I would learn to take orders
without questions, the most important thing I think I learned. Our barracks were brand-new,
and we were the first occupants. We were then marched down to the men's mess hall they did
not have separate tables. In fact, each table had two men and two women, but you could not
talk. After the first week this rule was changed, but you are sure that you learned a lot of selfcontrol quickly. We got our physicals and shots galore.” My mom said that when she got her
shots- lots of shots in both arms she was supposed to salute for a half an hour, and that was
to help with not being so sore. “We settled down to some serious business, not to mention a
lot of marching. I couldn't understand what was so important about learning to march until
later: it was discipline. Our barracks were near the men's barrack barracks but no
fraternizing. that held up for about three weeks and then we got to meet them. There was a
building called Arnold Hall on the base and dances were held there.”
My mother loved to dance she was only five foot two, very short and so she found out that
dancers needed to be really tall, but she still always loved to dance so we always hear about
the dances. “So, dances were held there. the local girls came, and we thought it was unfair
that we had to wear uniforms but at least we got to wear our dress shoes, and not our little
Abner shoes those were high-top leather boots and the only ones I could get in my size were
brown. I spent the whole time trying to dye them black, even the soles.” Let’s see and then
�they talked about …” There was a nice chapel near our barracks for service of all religions.
our barracks got a little landscaping while we were there, so we put a few bushes around in
place and we found some white stones left over from the building so in our free time we
spelled out our training group was which was the seven- three seven zero zero WAF
training group. she was in flight 2222 and she never got to see a gun. “I almost got to go for
a parachute training and gas masks I have a nice picture of myself with it on, but weather was
wrong for the test, and I didn't argue about it. Mostly we learned military protocol ranks
insignias and how to salute and how to hurry up and wait, with a smile on your face. We also
got to parade just once, and I was in the back.” Because she was the short one. “They started
out with the tall ones and worked their way down to us shorties, this was Armed Forces Day
May 17, 1952.” She does go on about drill instructors, “so our DI the drill instructors were
tough, but they were nice.” Which was a different story from what I heard from my father
who was in the Marines. “Sergeant King and Corporal Caboose did a great job teaching us to
work together. I made good friends there, women from all over the United States.” She got to
see the Alamo while she was there. “and then it was test time, my tests showed me to be a
candidate for air traffic controller. they can't- I can't imagine why, my eyes would have gone
crazy with that little screen. fortunately, they needed teletype operators and a group of us were
transferred to Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne, Wyoming” So from there she goes on to
Wyoming.
(14.35)
Interviewer: Alright does she- did she tell you anything else about the training in San Antonio or
life in San Antonio that wasn't covered here?
�She always told me about, during basic training, you had your- your dresser and
everything had to be folded up perfectly in the same way and so there were always
inspections and everything was expected to be in order the same way, and she said that it
was that discipline that really helped her later on in life, to learn how to do things correctly,
not ask questions, follow orders.
Interviewer: Did you say what happened if something was out of order?
(15.18)
You know she didn't. She just always stressed that pantyhose had to be exactly this size and
this side of the dresser and everything else had to be perfect. So, my mom- my mom always
set a high bar for herself and I think that she saw that as a challenge is to, to do her best
and to get as far as quickly as she could in the service, so... and she made sergeant within
about a year so…
Interviewer: And she was referring to sort of the-the problem of what kind of shoes you wore
and having to wear you little Abner. Now at this point where they, was the uniform- did the
uniform have a skirt, or were they wearing slacks, or do we not know that or is there pictures of
her?
The only pictures that I saw of her were the- she was wearing a skirt. Yeah, when she was
in her- was in her dress uniform.
�Interviewer: Yeah okay which is likely what you’d wear if you were going to the dance too.
Right right, you know we're talking the early 50s.
Interviewer: The early 50s yeah but still you, you can't wear a party dress or something like that.
Yes, oh yeah but- but the women that were in the service were required to wear the
uniforms were women coming from off the base we're able to just you know- casual.
Interviewer: Right okay alright so then let's then move on now to, to Wyoming here and Warren
Air Force, what's going on here?
Okay and that's- I was really impressed with because here's a woman going into the Air
Force and she had never flown in an airplane before. “So, a group of us were transferred to
Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne- Cheyenne, Wyoming we flew in a DC-3 to Denver
Colorado. it was my first ride in a big airplane. All I could see were flames coming out of the
engine. Later I got to sit in the jump seat when we landed at Denver. Your first landing on that
tiny little ribbon was very scary, I didn't leave the landing strip was wide enough until we
touched down and I began to breathe again, but it was a thrill I'll always remember.” And she
always loved to travel, she loved to fly. “So, we were bused to Francis E Warren Air Force
Base in Cheyenne this was an old port dating from the Indian Wars. We went from a new
building that had four to a room, to a hundred-year-old brick building there were about 50 of
�us in one long room. They had coal heat and it looked like it had never been cleaned. it was a
long building divided in the middle; guys were on one side gals on the other side with the hall
doors that were sealed in between. Showers we were in the basement and you also washed
your clothes there, but it was not all work and no play. She had a little redheaded friend, Joy
from Georgia who woke up one morning to snow. She had never seen snow and got so excited
that she ran out of the out the door in her pink pajamas. She laid down in the snow and she
threw snow in the air much to the delight of the other half of the building they were hanging
out the windows who would ever had had screens- window screens in the wild wild west.” So,
after that then they got down to study and this was an interesting, like a pivotal point in- in
my mom's training. She said, “we settled down to study, most of our class were old friends
from basic training. along the way I caught strep throat and had to break down and just go to
the sick bay. They promptly put me in the hospital, it seemed like another girl had gotten the
same thing and it developed into rheumatic fever. So, I was not allowed to even raise my head.
the vampire came regularly to suck my blood. I recovered quite nicely but that ended my short
career in giving blood they didn't want any more. Of course, I was a week behind in school, so
I was rewarded with a whole new classroom of men.” She was the only woman in the- in the
class. “They knew that I was coming, and they had their jackets and ties on as befitted the
occasion. They weren't too thrilled as the instructor had made it clear that there would be no
bad language and no bad jokes, there was going to be a lady present. My how times have
changed. my first surprise came when the instructor called out ‘TOLLEY.’ Behind me I heard
a man say ‘here’ and the place was dead quiet. I turned around and he was a very black man.”
My mom was very very pale English background. “His name was Andy and that had come
before Evelyn in the- the roster I just said, ‘well hello cousin’ and everyone let out a laugh and
�applauded we got to be good friends the next few weeks. I really buckled down to study as I'm
sure that they thought that a woman couldn't do the work, but I did well, and I moved up to
corporal from my hard work.” So, you were talking about integration and that story just…
(20.32)
Interviewer: Right now, so was this simply a training assignment there or was she going to
actually have a regular job on that base?
It was, it was no, it was a training assignment and then from there she was assigned to go to
Washington D.C. to the Pentagon.
Interviewer: Okay now what else does she have to say here about, about Wyoming?
Social life: “so we also had a social life there I have the match box covers to prove it, and no I
did not smoke. The club Araby in Cheyenne was our favorite bar, and no I didn't drink, but we
used to gather there. we- once we decided it was summertime it was May in Wyoming and the
Sun was warm. The group of us went to a lake and stretched out on our towels to get some
Sun, I fell asleep laying on my stomach.” And my mother is very very very pale. “So, I got
the worst sunburn ever, my back was blistered, and my friend Joy put some face cream on it
and that really set it afire. My uniform was starched and there were some mighty
uncomfortable days, but you couldn't take a day off from- from a non-military injury so I just
survived” So it's interesting my father had also written his story and my mother really talks
about the social side of it. The view from from being a woman as opposed to my father in
�the marines, where its- you know what his assignments were and- and how he got there and
such.
(22.00)
Interviewer: So, what was she actually learning to do there? Does she- does she ever tell you
anything about the physical side?
To tell teletypes she learned the communications to reading the teletypes which is what she
ended up doing in the Pentagon.
Interviewer: okay and had she known how to type before she went in or?
Yes, yeah, she learned it in high school and then when she worked for the newspaper she
also… she also did that.
Interviewer: Okay she had some meaningful preparations for doing this that probably helped
with her speed and a few other things.
Yes
Interviewer: Aright, now did she, do we have any more about that or?
�No and then- and then when she was done with the training there, she had a very short
leave she was able to go from Wyoming backup to Madison, South Dakota, see family for a
short while. And she does talk about- she does talk about the change, let's see... no I think
that's- that's when she went back again but she had a very very short time and she was put
on a bus in a train in Sioux Falls and she made her way over to, to Washington DC.
Interviewer: Okay so now what's her next assignment?
(23.18)
Her next assignment she was living on base in Fort Myer in Arlington. Right next to the
Arlington Cemetery and then she was assigned to go to the Pentagon and work in the- the
communications and let’s see, she does mention... “I was assigned to be a tape relay center as
a communication specialist. I was the only one of my group to go there, some went to Air
Force Andrew, Andrews Air Force Base and some were sent stateside to a station called
JEEZ, ‘Jezz,’ and they had to go through JEZ to get into the JEV where I worked and you
had to pass through the security twice to get into the hall and the bathroom. Once I was at
JEV this was the overseas communication. I worked at a teletype machine, just imagine a
computer six feet wide- four feet- six feet high and four feet wide and nearly that deep. There
was a keyboard, but you didn't have a screen. Everything was done on a perforated tape which
you would read by knowing what series of punches meant. We could send messages about
work that was... and that was a printout. I got some proposals that way and a lot of nonsense,
never a dull moment. In my case the military communications were scrambled or coded. You
had to have top-secret clearance to work there. Can't you just see the military guy wandering
�around my hometown of Madison asking questions about my character, but I guess my
character was okay and my family's too. A friend of mine was Polish and her parents were
immigrants, she did not get clearance because she had so many relatives overseas that could
be intimidated. I love the work, but the schedule was something else we worked eight-hour
shifts for eight days. Going in at 3 p.m. and getting out at 11:00 and then we had three days
off. then we went back on a different shift from the 11:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. Another three days
off and back on the 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. shift. Fortunately, we were young, and I learned to
fall asleep at any time. I often had to stay late if top-secret messages were coming in because I
was responsible for it.” My mother always told me that she was not able to talk about what
she did with her job in the Pentagon until, until she wrote this. This is the first time that I
had learned what she did. “In October of 52 I was made honor flight from my Squadron, it
came with a very nice letter from Major Schultz. I also was selected in November, but his letter
was shorter, but with the same sentiments.” So she was talking about, she was in charge of
the teletype information coming in from Africa especially, and she said that there werewhen the people on the other end found out there was a woman receiving it that's when
they would get, she would, it was ticker tape that was called throwaways, and those were
the proposals and then ‘would you wait for me until I get back’ and you know ‘six more
months and I'll be coming home, would you wait for me at the train station?’ So, she said
those were throwaways because she just got rid of them really quickly so that nobody
would know. But the information that she would get would be if someone was injured or
someone was killed and then she would have to make sure that that information was passed
on to the correct branch of service so that families could be notified. She said it was very
hard, sometimes she would see a name that she knew, and they weren't, they weren't just
�names she just always thought you know this is somebody's brother, you know somebody's
son, and so it always- it always affected her.
(27.35)
Interviewer: Okay of course, I guess most of the- the place where most people would be getting
killed at that point would have been Korea, but she was getting stuff from Africa. Now were
these relays via Africa that she would... So, something from the station being sent in Africa?
Yes, yeah from a station in Africa yeah.
Interviewer: I'm not sure that we had a whole lot of personnel in Africa.
Not much, no.
Interviewer: But I guess there were some.
She had mentioned some of the places that she... okay, “you were sending messages to the
guys in Africa or Korea.”
Interviewer: Okay or Korea.
�Yes “the messages were called throw always because you wanted to get rid of them before
somebody saw the message they came from the lonely guys and when they knew there was a
girl at the other end, they were likely to propose.” So...
Interviewer: Okay but I think then that we've got Korea there in the mix of things and that's
gonna be where the casualties come from.
Right right.
(28.42)
Interviewer: Alright so what else is she telling us about life in Washington then and what she's
doing?
Washington was just a wonderland for her she came from a very small Midwestern town,
you know 4,000 people. People really didn't leave and now she's in Washington DC, she's in
the air force and all the monuments and the government was there and- and so when sheshe went back- she went back home and then she said that she went back to- to Washington
DC after the- after her time in Cheyenne she went back.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Yeah and she said when she first got there, she just decided to be a tourist, and she went to
all the monuments. She went and did most of the monuments by herself a few times she got
�the- the tours, which shows her independence you know that she didn't she was not - she
was not a coward in any way. She was really on the leading edge of everything. So, she let's see she went to see a lot of the monuments, she said she took a picture of just about
every, every monument that there was. “So, I spent my first few days after reporting to work
of the Pentagon as a serious tourist. I think I photographed every statue in the city and there
were a lot, and every building; the White House, the Capitol, the Washington Monument, the
National Gallery of Art, Jefferson Monument, even the gates to the bridge that led to the
Lincoln Memorial and to Arlington Cemetery. Of course, I went to see Lee's mansion and the
Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and I wandered through the cemetery, which was a very
peaceful place.” So, she was, her barracks were on one side of the cemetery and then my
dad actually when he made it to Washington DC he was on the other side of the cemetery.
(30.51)
Interviewer: And did she say much about the people that she worked with or the set up in her
office or anything else like that or?
She mentioned the security, “the- the Pentagon was a huge maze and I knew how to get to my
work, but when it came to wandering the halls I remembered the old story; there was a bird
Colonel that had wandered off and was never seen before, so the rumors went. At night we
would go to the upper floor to get some food the escalators had stopped so you just ran up and
down them. A little snack bar that we went to was not really a place to dally. The tables were
little rounds that- that were on tall pedestals, you stood at them and ate quickly. You had been
standing most of the time at work, especially when you were sending the messages to the guys
�in Africa or Korea.” So, she said that there was security, you had security going when you
left your job and when you when you came back. So not, not really not much except for the
weird schedule that she had. My father, by the time they met, he was trying to get used to
that schedule and being available when she was, and he had a car as she didn't and so he
would come and pick her up, you know in the middle of the night or whatever. To make
sure that that she was safe and didn't have to take public transportation.
(32.27)
Interviewer: Okay so what else has she got in her story, that we haven't brought in yet?
I think the- the change that went on. She was able to go back home for Christmas.
Interviewer: Right.
And so, she got there, and she said that she called her folks when she got into Sioux Falls
and they came to- to get her. “It was so good to be home with family at Christmas but
afterwards I realized that I had found a whole new life with my new friends. My old friends
were still gossiping about everyone and none seemed to aspire much except for getting married
and that was not for me.” Those are famous last words because she- she went home at
Christmas time and at New Year's Eve she met my father and they were married three
months later. So, “she broke off- she permanently broke off her on-again, and off-again
boyfriend and headed back to DC.” So, I think she did a lot of growing, she was starting to
�see the world, she was recognized for the talents that she had and she, she loved it. It was
just her pace.
(33.44)
Interviewer: It also kind of parallels what I get from a lot of male veterans I mean some of the
Vietnam guys, and certainly the both men and women who've been in the service more recently.
They talked about coming back, and you know their friends from high school are still playing
video games or they're doing whatever it was that they were doing, and now there's this whole
other set of experiences that they have that these people don't understand. And a whole other life
that was out there.
Yeah meeting people from all over, she had mentioned that about when she was down in at
Lackland, just she met people from Hawaii and from Georgia and she was the only one
from South Dakota, the only woman but she said you know just people all over. She said
her friend from Hawaii tried to teach her how to hula dance and she said she could never
quite get it, she can do the dancing, but the hula was just a little bit hard for her. But she
talked about her world was just opened up by meeting all these people from all over.
Interviewer: Do you have any senses or how the people that she worked with treated her? Now
basically the, the major real good things about her or whatever but any other sense of that?
(34.56)
�Everything that I get was all respect you know she worked really, really hard I think she
tried to prove that a woman could do this job and so I don't know if she had that chip in
her shoulder like you know I've got to prove it or something, but everything was respectful.
I never got the the image that that she was just a bobble, you know just because she was a
woman, and I think that- and especially at that time, I don't think they put too much value
in women's service you know so, but she just always talked that they were all respected you
know.
Interviewer: Well it was the kind of job where good the way you were describing it you really
couldn't afford to make mistakes, like you can't see what you're typing. So getting it right and
getting it right matters, so if you've got somebody in there who's coming in and getting it right
anybody who's in charge of that might be very happy, hence the promotion.
And he did make the Honor Flight and making sergeant very quickly she was very pleased
with that and I've got a feeling like my grandparents were probably very fearful you know
that she's going off into this big world and, but she was doing really well.
(36.20)
Interviewer: Alright so now we've gotten to the point in her story here where she's gone home for
Christmas and now, she comes back.
Yes, yeah so, she- she had just gotten back, and it was right after Christmas and she was
told by her friends you know you get lonely or something we can go out and do something.
�So, this is where her life really changes, if it hadn't changed before. So okay, “I had lots of
time leave time, so I went home for Christmas.” When she came back, oh this is how she,
right before she went back, she was told that if she wore her uniform and she went to the
train station or the bus station, if they had room, they would let her on... well she didn't get
on, she didn't get on. There were higher-ranking people. So, she finally came back to the
base and she still had her uniform- uniform on, so her friends were going up to, to Marine
headquarters and “I was on the other side of Arlington Cemetery from Fort Myer I went a
long uniform and all. I imagined that I stood out a bit at the slop shoot.” Which was the name
of the NCO there. “But I had a good time and then hopped on a bus over to Andrews base
again I wasn't the only one waiting. Finally, there was one other guy that said that if we
chipped in on gas, he would drive all the way to, to the- to the west. He lived in Oklahoma, so
there were six of us, two guys and four girls and it was a wild trip. Heavy heavy snow storms
all the way. Dropped one girl off at Indiana and then I left in Kansas City for the train
station.” So, she went home she realized the changes, broke it off with her on-again, offagain boyfriend. And so, her parents sent her on- a on a train back to, to Washington. So,
“I got in on New Year's Eve and some of my marine friends said that if I got lonely for them to
head back to DC, so my WAF friends and I headed out to the slop shoot and we were going to
celebrate New Year's Eve. My good friend Whitey came in with a guy I had never seen him
before but apparently he had seen me.” Because he had seen her before Christmas when she
was trying to head out. “My notorious trip to the marine bar with the Air Force uniform was
apparently made a good impression, and now I'm glad that I did it. Whitey's friend was called
Buck Buckingham family called him Dick, but his Marine buddies called him Buck and I was
impressed with this man. I had not slept for a long time, so I think I wasn't really a ball of fire,
�but I had a good time, but that was just the beginning. So, buck called the next day and I think
mental telepathy had something to do with that” She was probably sitting in her barracks
hoping that he would call. “And then life was a whirlwind. In January he drove the float for
Michigan, his home state in the inaugural parade for Eisenhower who was elected president.
He looked great in his dress blue uniform, but the collar emblem literally wore a hole in his
neck, because I worked multiple shifts Buck would pick me up at work, he worked days so the
schedule was getting pretty rough on him. His commanding officer suggested that he should
just marry me so that the young marine could get some sleep and he did. He proposed at Great
Falls Virginia in February 53. A group of us requisitioned some chicken and some tools from
the mess hall and we had a picnic in February. we were married in March of 1953 in the
church in- in Arlington and I lived off-base. I made sergeant in April of 53. I then got a
medical discharge because I was pregnant with my first child, Bruce, and so ended an exciting
life in the Air Force and I went on to have an even more exciting life being married to Buck.”
So, at that time if you became pregnant, you got an honorable discharge, so my mom said
that she tried hiding the pregnancy for, for quite a while and she said finally being
nauseous and not feeling well and starting to show. and she said then they you know, they
gave her the honorable discharge, but she said it was really hard, she really wanted to
continue on and she loved what she loved, she loved what she did.
(41.10)
Interviewer: So, this is well before the year of pregnancy uniforms and a lot of other things that
they have now.
�Right, and it's interesting that both my mom and my dad were in the service when they got
married, but they decided to not wear their uniforms for their wedding. And I've asked
several times “you know but you were in the service when that be you know great?” And
they said that they wanted the wedding to be separate from the service so that when they
looked back at the pictures, they would see the wedding, rather than oh we were just in the
service.
Interviewer: okay now did she tell any other stories about life in Washington or stuff that she did
there or the Pentagon that haven't been covered here?
Of her time in the service?
(41.56)
Interviewer: Yeah.
She did mention that when she decided that she was going to marry my dad and she sat
down with her commanding officer, and she said that he- he first had that commanding
officer you know asking questions, and then he turned into that dad figure. “Are you sure
you want to marry this man? You've not known him for very long. Your lives are very very
different.” My mother came from a very, very small town, farm girl didn't really travel
much. She was third born out of four kids. My father grew up in Detroit, very, you know
busy place. He was the oldest of three boys, and to have these two people come from such
diverse backgrounds to meet in Washington, on New Year's Eve. Married three months
�later, and when my mom passed away, they were almost married 60 years. So, I think a lot
of it has that, because of the military training that they had, was to, that discipline you
know that working together it's a team and they were always a team.
Interviewer: Alright now did she work it all out outside the home after they were married or?
No, my brother Bruce came along nine months after after they got married and then they
moved back to Detroit because my dad had an opportunity for a job there. And then I
came along and then my younger brother. So, my mom she didn't work outside the home
she worked hard enough inside the home, but she was always on that cutting edge she was
the mom that was skateboarding when skateboards first came out. She was the mom that
had a computer before the rest of us had a computer, because she was so she just loved
being on the edge. She loved being different, she loved, she loved being independent and
she was very, very involved as a mom. And it was... she kind of showed us how to think
outside of the box and to always- not be afraid to step out and do something different.
(44.25)
Interviewer: Okay and so then where, you said a little bit about this but it's kind of a good way to
close out here. I mean ultimately how do you think that military experience affected her, how did
it help shape her?
I think it opened her world, going from a very, very small farm community to seeing huge
cities. Being involved in the Pentagon. Meeting important people, people seeing her worth.
�I told you that she was five foot two she always told me TNT comes in small packages and
that was her. She was she was always on the cutting edge of doing things. I think the
discipline you know that she learned in- in basic training. In our home, my dad was very
much the- the more stricter, you know parent but my mom still expected big things of us.
So, she- she also you know had that discipline too. I think it just opened her world and it
was something that she was always able to say with pride you know that she was in the Air
Force. Obviously, my dad would get recognition because he was, he was a marine he was a
man, but he was always the first one to point out that mom made sergeant before he did so
it was something that he was very, very proud of.
(46.01)
Interviewer: Alright yeah well it makes for a unique story. Thank you very much for coming in
and thank you very much.
Thank you.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_BuckinghamE2178V
Title
A name given to the resource
Buckingham, Evelyn (Interview transcript and video), 2018
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-01-11
Description
An account of the resource
Linda Namenye of Spring Lake, Michigan, tells the story of her mother, Evelyn Tolley Buckingham, who served in The United States Air Force. Buckingham was born in Madison, South Dakota and grew up during the Depression. She graduated in 1949 and enlisted into the Air Force in February of 1952. Following her training at Lackland Air Force Base, she was to Warren Air Force Base in Cheyenne, Wyoming to be a teletype operator. She was then assigned to go to Washington D.C. and work for the Pentagon. In the Pentagon she handled communications, reading the teletypes. Her next assignment she was living on base in Fort Myers in Arlington. She worked in JEV, secretive overseas communications on a teletype machine. After moving to Detroit, Michigan, with her Marine husband, she didn't work outside the home once they started having children.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Namenye, Linda
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401.
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/88bacc23364466ef69f212b19755332f.pdf
aeee20cf193040f5b5c8fb6a373a98be
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
Frank Collins
Korean War
7 minutes 27 seconds
(00:00:17) Early Life Pt. 1
-Born in Manistee, Michigan
-Had to walk to school because no school buses were available
-More relaxed time during his youth
-Grew up in Manistee
-Had three sisters and two brothers
-Both brothers served in the Army
-Born on July 4, 1933
(00:01:26) Enlisting in the Air Force
-Mother died and father moved to California
-Departure of parents prompted him to enlist in the Air Force
-Note: Dependent on date of enlistment it would have been Army Air Force or Air Force
(00:02:00) Training Pt. 1
-Basic training was difficult for him
-Wasn't used to taking orders
-Had to adjust to that
(00:02:28) Early Life Pt. 2
-Worked before enlisting in the Army
-Got a job at the company his father worked at
(00:03:20) Korean War Pt. 1
-In personnel staff
-Kept records during the Korean War
-While in Korea he processed North Korean prisoners of war
-Recorded and radioed in North Korean train and aircraft movements
(00:04:10) Baseball
-When he was a boy he wanted to become a professional baseball player
-Had a chance to play professional baseball with the Washington Senators
-Had no future in baseball beyond that though and the money wasn't good
-Played baseball while in the Air Force
(00:04:59) Living Conditions in Korea
-Rough in Korea
-Incredibly cold and lived in pup tents
(00:05:21) Training Pt. 2
-Went to Personnel School to learn how to be a record keeper
-Learned how to march and take orders in basic training
(00:05:45) Korean War Pt. 2
-Didn't see any combat while he was in Korea
(00:06:11) Military Career
-Stayed in the Air Force for 11 years
-From 1952 to 1963
-Also served in the Air National Guard
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_CollinsF1840V
Title
A name given to the resource
Collins, Frank M (Interview outline), 2015
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-05-26
Description
An account of the resource
Frank Collins was born in Manistee, Michigan on July 4, 1933. After his mother died and his father moved to California he enlisted in the Air Force in 1952. He received basic training and went to Personnel School. During the Korean War he was deployed to Korea and worked in records. He processed North Korean prisoners of war and also spent a month monitoring the train and aircraft movements of the North Koreans. He stayed in the Air Force until 1963 then went on to serve in the Air National Guard.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Collins, Frank M.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Richter, Madelyn (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d968c5aa11e9d7b447c0f149fed29856.m4v
ec0b25e4e6b5876013586d921efa0098
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/67020648cb9cd8105bf6d42141d3578a.pdf
e247fa1e841b2da27ecd85e0ccd4eb97
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Lee Scherwitz
Vietnam War
1 hour 25 minutes 53 seconds
(00:00:03) Intro
-Born on October 9th, 1946.
-Entered the service in 1965 as a career airman.
-Left the service in 1991.
-His highest rank achieved is senior master sergeant E-8.
(00:01:10) Early Life
-Born in Teaneck, New Jersey.
-Father was a tool and die maker.
-Mother was a homemaker at the time.
-Four other siblings. He is the second youngest of five.
-Family moved a few times. Grew up mainly in Pearl River, New York.
-About 20 minutes from NYC.
-Desired to become an auto mechanic.
-Not interested in college.
-Someone offered him money to operate an auto repair/carwash station.
-In 1965 the military recruited at his high school.
-Those that already secured entrance to a college were dismissed.
-He did want to go into the Navy.
-In his youth he went through the Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, and Sea Scouts.
-Brother was also in the Navy.
-Navy recruiter told him he already met his quota.
-It would be two years before he could get in.
-At the time he didn’t know the Air Force existed.
-Thought it was part of the Army Air Corps.
-Already had his draft card.
-He knew drafting was inevitable so he wanted to just do it and get it over with.
-Air Force recruiter convinced him to enlist.
-Turned 18 the October before.
-Already took his aptitude test.
(00:05:00)
-Being an aircraft mechanic sounded interesting.
-When he was very young he would repair lawnmowers.
-Graduated in June, 1965.
Basic Training, Aircraft Maint Training, and Tech School in the US
-On July 6th he was formally enlisted.
-He was flown to the Lackland, Texas Air Force base for basic training.
-The barracks were from WWII; boarded up and condemned.
�-They were put to work to refurbish their own barracks.
-Many on his flight to the base were from New York as well.
-He already had a sense of a military outlook from his scouting experience.
-Enjoyed his training ultimately.
-After basic training, sent to Shephard Air Force Base in Texas.
-Trained to maintain aircraft.
-Studied in the one/two engine section of the school.
-Worked on F-86, F-84, F-100s, and T-33 planes.
-Learned to take pumps on/off, doing basic maintenance.
-Next, his first duty assignment was at Selfridge Air Force base in Michigan.
(00:10:00) Selfridge Michigan
-Started out with a brusque introduction to the base.
-Became more friendly after the initial stages.
-Shown an F-106 for the first time.
-Selfridge was part of the NORAD system.
-At this time he is a 1-striper, Airman Third Class.
-Much of the higher ranking recruits were being sent to Vietnam.
-He worked under a 3-striper.
-Designations of levels of training:
-He had his 3-level from his current training.
-Higher than that there was a 5-level.
-7-level was for an NCO.
-A 9-level was the supervisory level.
-Took the advice to take every opportunity.
(00:15:00)
-Learned to drive a de-icing truck.
-Arrived at Selfridge in the later part of 1965.
-He was assigned to the 94th Tactical Interceptor Squadron.
-In 1967 he “Flying Fists”, the 91st transferred from Selfridge to Richards-Gebaur Air Force base
in Kansas City, Missouri.
-He transferred to Richards-Gebaur in January 1967.
-He continued to work on the F-106 planes.
-He had earned his second stripe and had more responsibility.
-“Crewing” on his own without supervision.
-Running an expediter truck.
-It’s purpose is to monitor resources of the planes to ready for their flight.
-Not long after transferring received orders to go to Southeast Asia.
-But he did not have the training to work on the Phantom planes there.
-So he was required to go to tech school at MacDill Air Force Base in Flordia.
-While at Selfridge he had met a girlfriend.
-They married on July 28, 1967.
-Coincided with the Detroit riots.
-His tech school journey was their “75 day honeymoon”.
-Classes at 4am to noon.
-They were teaching classes 24 hours a day to get everyone through quick and out to
Vietnam.
�-Took place in the Tampa Florida region.
-He finished the tech school training at MacDill in October 1967.
-Next, he was sent to San Francisco to fly to Thailand.
-While there he had two days until his flight left in California.
-Visited Haight-Ashbury and the “typical” tourist areas.
-Received some disapproving looks and “snubbing” while wearing his uniform.
-But not as bad as some military would receive.
(00:20:00) Ubon, Thailand
-Flew to Bangkok, Thailand.
-Next, flew on a C-130 plane from Bangkok to Ubon, Thailand.
-Reported to the 555th Tech Fighter Squadron.
-They used F-4 Phantom planes.
-Took some training for about two weeks before working on his own.
-The pilots there would fly for 100 missions, and they could be discharged.
-Others had to stay for a year minimum.
-He was part of the 8th Fighter Squadron.
-Known for Daniel “Chappie” James, the first black four-star general.
-He interacted with him and was well liked among the recruits.
-At that time Chappie James was a colonel.
-A 12 hour work day was typical.
-They had one day off for the week, and which day it was varied.
-“Cannibalization” of parts occurred.
-When parts are taken from a broken airplane and used to fix another.
(00:25:00)
-When larger parts were needed the entire assembly would be transferred.
-Legal and illegal “cannonballs” the process was referred to.
-They went through three Crew Chiefs that were fired.
-He was given a new role as Crew Chief.
-They desperately needed a craft to be fixed and gave him wide authority to do so.
-Because of cannibalization the craft required constant guard to prevent taking its parts.
-At this time he is a three-striper rank.
(00:30:00)
-Given a phase dock crew to work for him to complete their goal.
-Spent most of his time searching for parts, requisitioning them.
-On the 90th day of repair they ran a taxi check.
-Finally on the 120th day the plane was in flying condition.
-Once it was finished he was able to go to Chiang Mai, Thailand as a reward for hard work.
-Stayed for three days.
-After returning to base, he went back to crewing and launching planes.
-All the planes he launched returned.
(00:35:00)
-The Seabees built all of the infrastructure for use by the Air Force.
-At Ubon he resided in a concrete two story barrack well built to protect against weather.
-A house boy polished their shoes and cleaned their clothes.
-The house boy used ironed clothes with banana leaves.
�-The starch would seep into the uniforms.
-Caused uniforms to “foam” if caught in the rain.
-Workers on the air base would bring their children.
-One would babysit while the other was cleaning.
-(Seemingly these may be local people).
-Requested his wife to send little toys or gifts for them to have.
-Beer cost only 5 cents, while a Coka-Cola cost 25 cents.
-His preference: wine or Popov Vodka.
-Popov was only 90 cents.
-They would take the “baht bus” in to town.
-Baht is a Thai currency.
-Drink ice used in town was made from local rivers.
-Used the vodka to pour over ice to sterilize the water.
-It was not a war zone.
(00:40:00)
-At that time no air bases had been attacked in Thailand.
-“A shopper’s paradise.”
-American’s boosted the local economy.
-One of his purchases: a set of bronze ware utensils with rosewood handles.
-Another: gave them his black and white wedding photo.
-A craftsmen recreated it enlarged and in color.
-Souvenir temple rubbings: cloth with crayon rubbed over the surface of the temple carving.
-The town was about 15 minutes drive away from the base.
-Spent 13 months in Thailand.
Udon, Thailand
-In May, 1967 the 555th Tech Fighter Squadron relocated from Ubon to Udon, Thailand.
-Significant special operation activity in Udorn base.
-He and his crew were the last to be picked up in the relocation.
(00:45:00)
-Packed up the base flag to relocate, and still owns it.
-Took on a new temporary duty.
-Working in the control room on a night shift.
-Managing the fleet of planes.
-A “frag order”. What the mission requirements were.
-Ensure all the operations were done in sequence.
-Kept track of all the maintenance going on.
-Temporary role turned long term because he excelled at his new role.
-They desired having someone familiar in the control room.
-Soon he was transferred to the 432nd Tech Recon Control Wing.
-His job with them as a maintenance controller.
-Managing the fleet of planes being maintained on the flight line.
-In this role he interacted with many special operations.
-Interacted with Air America.
-Gave him a “big picture” view.
-Air America was a CIA operation that used planes to deliver rice/supplies to Thailand, Laos,
�Cambodia, and South Vietnam.
-Public affairs.
(00:50:00)
-Moved special ops to places marked planes couldn’t go.
-Supporting locals also provided them with intelligence.
-Training local Thai and Laos how to fly small, short range craft to go on missions.
-Lima Site 85:
-A US base in Laos was overtaken by enemy troops.
-About 11 were able to be evacuated.
-Required the base to be bombed and napalmed to prevent information and
technology from use by enemies.
(00:55:00)
-The largest Air Force casualty of the War.
-Most memorable moments were when someone would make a “MiG kill”.
-A celebrated event.
-Planes would fly in spirals and use phosphorous lights in celebration.
-Also memorable, the Bob Hope Show.
-Raquel Welch was along with them.
-He grew a handlebar mustache for the occasion.
-He was picked out of the crowd to be interviewed by Bob Hope.
(01:00:00)
-It was a sit-down video recorded interview.
-He was raised Lutheran.
-Married into the Catholic Church.
-At Ubon he was taking a confirmation class.
-Through the local church he heard about a nearby school with a barebones hut to teach in.
-They used foam missile cases to insulate the structures roof from the hot radiating sun.
-Took about 4 days’ time.
-The local mayor (called the Puyabon) invited them to come participate in a local social
gathering.
-Dancing, lots of food and rice wine.
-They used red ants for food seasoning.
(01:05:00)
-Red ants are citric like a lemon.
-Australians were also part of the military force at the Ubon Air Force Base.
-They participated in a number of CIA missions.
-They used a MARS station to communicate by radio and phone to the US.
-The communication was set up and funded by Barry Goldwater.
-Mail and audio reels as well.
(01:10:00)
-On July 27th, the Udon base was attacked by sappers.
-They attempted to blow up a C-141.
-About 10:30 pm.
-Several casualties and damage to certain planes.
-His tour was supposed to end in October, 1968.
-His replacement didn’t come for another 30 days.
�End of First Military Enlistment, New Enlistment at Homestead, and Misc.
-Relieved to be out of the military.
-He had a free day in Bangkok before his flight left.
-He was offered an assignment to Homestead Air Force Base in Florida.
-The job market at that time was very weak.
-So he chose to take the assignment on a 4 year tour in the US.
-Returned to the US in San Francisco, California.
-Had to re-enlist to accept the assignment.
-A tax incentive to those that were in or flew over Vietnam was offered.
-A month tax-free.
-Upon re-enlisting he took up the journey to Vietnam and back for this purpose.
-Flew to Okinawa, then a civilian flight to Taiwan, to Ching Chuan Kang base, to
Bangkok, and then finally back to Ubon.
-Upon his return to San Francisco the climate was hostile with hecklers.
-Flew home to Michigan from there.
-Had a 30 day home leave.
-Took a slow trip to see family and travel to Homestead, Florida.
-They put him to work in the control room as his experience were very desirable.
(01:20:00)
-At Homestead, the structure was still assumed under a squadron mindset.
-At the time the US was friendly with the Shah of Iran.
-Iran was being supplied with Phantom planes.
-He trained maintenance officers to maintain the fleet.
-Experience that was very useful for future use.
-Reflecting on military experience: The best thing he’s done.
-Advice: Entering the military with education as an officer is much higher paying.
-Enlisting in the military and getting education with the GI Bill shaped his life.
-He took college education for aviation business management.
-Now he is an airport manager.
-Discovered he enjoys managing people more than manual mechanic work.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_ScherwitzL1023V
Title
A name given to the resource
Scherwitz, Robert Lee (Interview outline and video), 2009
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2009-11-12
Description
An account of the resource
Lee Scherwitz was born in 1946 in Teaneck, New Jersey. He entered the service in 1965 and his military career primarily concerns management and maintaining aircraft for the Air Force. At Lackland Air Force Base in Texas he undertook his basic training. Next he worked at Shephard Air Force Base in Texas to maintain aircrafts. By late 1965 he arrived at Selfridge Air Force Base in Michigan where he worked on the F-106 planes. Eventually in 1967 he transferred to Richards-Gebaur Air Force Base in Missouri with the "Flying Fists". After receiving orders for Asia he was flown to Ubon, Thailand with the 555th Tech Fighter Squadron. In 1967 his Squadron was relocated to Udon, Thailand. With the 432nd Tech Recon Control Wing he worked as a maintenance controller and interacted with Air America missions. Re-enlisting in 1968, he went to Homestead, Florida where he worked in the control center once again. Eventually Lee would leave the service in 1991 after the Gulf War.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Scherwitz, Robert Lee
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Brock, Rosemarie (Interviewer)
Lest We Forget
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/x-m4v
application/pdf
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/843d83917c190866fd2267cdaca1923d.m4v
c8ad12bf18f33cd333e60ae14ed68e8f
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f717ac0fb41be0e857b4a73fccefd499.pdf
7fb1b5d70378efc42152260cfa8938f7
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
Vietnam War
Michael Yocum
Interview Length: (01:38:51:00)
Early Life / Training / Pre-Vietnam Service (00:00:33:00)
Born in Seattle, Washington and raised in the Mount St. Helens area
(00:00:33:00)
Joined the Air Force right out of high school; when testing to get into the military,
his test score was a seventy-five, only ten points above the lower limit
(00:00:43:00)
Only two services had jet aircraft, the Air Force or Navy (00:01:25:00)
o Yocum had high ranking relatives in the Navy and he did not want to run
into either of them and the Navy would not guarantee him what he asked
for (00:01:35:00)
o The Air Force gave him a signed contract that he would he asked for, so
long as he passed their school, which he did (00:01:53:00)
Going into the Air Force was the only way that Yocum was going to get to work
on jets because they had none of the technical schools at the time (00:02:08:00)
Signed a six month delayed enlistment but he forgot to read the final line at the
bottom, which said, “Or to the needs of the service” (00:02:26:00)
Command called the recruiter and told him to pick up Yocum and get him down
to Portland, Oregon to ship out (00:02:48:00)
o Portland was a major military processing center, everybody except Coast
Guard went through and was where recruits had their physicals and
received their assignments (00:03:01:00)
Yocum’s assignment was Lackland Air Force Base, San Antonio, Texas
(00:03:23:00)
Boot camp was a lark because Yocum was an athlete and in good physical shape
and although it was a lark, there still was discipline and the men learned to be
military (00:03:48:00)
After boot camp, he want to Amarillo Air Force Base for training as a jet aircraft
mechanic (00:04:18:00)
o They also had heavy aircraft at the base and Strategic Air Command
(SAC) tried to get him to switch but Yocum said “no, he wanted fighters,
not bombers” (00:04:33:00)
o When in school, he had a contract saying that he would not get certain
things (00:04:49:00)
In training, he worked on trainer aircraft, aircraft that for some reason were not
flyable, but were good for someone to learn how to repair them (00:05:11:00)
o Some of the parts were wore out due to the number of times they had
come on and off (00:05:29:00)
o Would go through sections, beginning with a basic section – the
aerodynamics of the aircraft, and moving up (00:05:34:00)
�
o There was both classroom and practical training (00:05:54:00)
Started training on the F-80, the first jet aircraft in the Air Force inventory and he
also worked on the F-100 and the F-101 (00:06:28:00)
Completed training in Amarillo and was then assigned to Glasgow Air Force Base
in Montana, a SAC base (00:07:14:00)
o Fighter mechanics did not have good SAC appetites (00:07:28:00)
o Yocum was assigned the job of transient alert, taking care of the planes
coming into the base, i.e. non-base aircraft (00:07:39:00)
Most were fighters coming in from the West Coast headed east or
vice versa (00:07:46:00)
o The base was out of the way but a perfect drop-off spot (00:07:54:00)
o Was at Glasgow for approximately eighteen months (00:08:01:00)
o Worked twelve hours on and then thirty-six hours off (00:08:13:00)
They had to have crew that was alert and ready to go on when
needed; like a fireman, many hours of twittling their thumbs then
instant action (00:08:24:00)
o One of Yocum’s jobs was taking out the “follow me” truck and bringing
in the B-52’s drag chutes, which weighed six hundred pounds
(00:08:43:00)
o Had an excellent group to work with and they got along well
(00:09:07:00)
Then went to RAF Bentwater in Great Britain (00:09:13:00)
o Learned quickly that in Europe, when they mentioned a Sunday driver, he
moved away from the driver because it referred to a driver that could
afford to only drive one day a week (00:09:20:00)
o One time, another guy went to the beach, became too tired and tried to
return home the next day and he and Yocum went up opposite sides of a
hill and they both ended up in Yocum’s lane (00:09:36:00)
They crashed and Yocum had fourteen major fractures of the face
and lower jaw (00:09:53:00)
o Yocum was in the hospital for two months (00:10:11:00)
The Air Force had to send him to a civilian hospital because they
did not have the proper equipment on the base or the time to get
him to the better hospital at Leighton because he was so injured
(00:10:19:00)
o Dr. Gay, the surgeon who worked on Yocum, specialized in facial
reconstruction and when Yocum arrived, Dr. Gay came in to check on
another patient and ended up picking to work on Yocum, saying that he
was the doctor’s to work on (00:10:37:00)
o He had to sit on the gurney because when they would lay him down, the
bones would move, causing pain; two police officers tried to do it at the
accident site and Yocum “threw them about twenty feet” (00:11:12:00)
o Dr. Gay really put his face back together and Yocum only lost two teeth in
the accident, although because of the accident, through the years, he has
slowly lost his teeth (00:11:33:00)
�
Could not have a facial injury and he does not get into situations
that made an injury possible, including riding horses (00:11:55:00)
o The Air Force made checks on him, including sending a specialist, but Dr.
Gay would not sign off on until he believed Yocum would be safe to go
back (00:12:35:00)
The Air Force could not have gotten him the same quality of care
at Leighton because they did not have the same quality of surgeons
(00:12:51:00)
Dr. Gay rebuilt his face to the point that someone could not tell
Yocum had been in an accident and the only way to tell was to
look at pictures from before and after the accident (00:13:05:00)
o When he got out of the hospital, he was given light duty for six months
and not allowed to even go into a hanger, for fear that he might fall, so he
worked on tech orders i.e. filing the changes (00:13:19:00)
From Great Britain, he went to Maxwell Air Base in Montgomery, Alabama,
which was strictly an officer’s training base (00:13:59:00)
o Still worked transient alert, although now he had twenty four hours on
then seventy two hours off and one day off a month, meaning he had a
seven day period when he did not have to report to duty (00:14:21:00)
o Spent off time having a blast and when he was there, he volunteered for
Vietnam, but they turned him down three times before they allowed him to
go (00:14:44:00)
o The air base had a federal penitentiary on one side, so the base was locked
down several times whenever someone got out (00:15:04:00)
o Had no issues with officers and staying at Maxwell caused him to look at
officers as persons, rather than as entities (00:15:22:00)
Once a month, they had a code-seven fly into the base, a full
colonel or above, for conferences and everyone else they parked in
the “outback 40” and took care of them when they could
(00:15:34:00)
o That was the one time he saw a real F-80, who came in from Mexico with
guns loaded and rockets armed and they had to call an Army missile base
to send someone down to dearm the aircraft; the aircraft turned out to be
an original 1950’s model aircraft (00:15:55:00)
The Air Force turned down his Vietnam requests because they did not want to
have to replace him; they had somebody good and they tried to hold on to him
(00:16:51:00)
o He knew he would have to go to Vietnam so instead of being grabbed and
given non-volunteer status, he wanted volunteer status (00:17:01:00)
From Maxwell, he spent three months at Clovis Air Force Base in New Mexico
training on the F-100 aircraft and from Clovis, he went to Phan Rang Air Force
Base in September, 1967 (00:17:14:00)
Not everyone in a squadron went to Vietnam at the same time; they started with
the ground crew, then the NCOs to train the ground crew and then the officers
(00:17:41:00)
�
On most aircraft, to change a tire, they would slide the main wheel over the brake
but on the F-100, they put on the main wheel then slid in the main brake, attach
the hydraulic system, and bleed the hydraulic system (00:18:08:00)
o A main tire change on the F-100 took and hour and a quarter of work, but
when working on the F-101, twenty-five minutes and Yocum was done
changing the tire (00:18:28:00)
Taking the aft section off the F-100 to fix the engine was difficult; most aircraft
allowed the engine to drop out, but with the F-100, they had to take the tail
section off (00:18:42:00)
The F-100 was the first of the serious dedicated fighters, including afterburners
(00:19:04:00)
o Afterburners were a kick in the butt when the pilot wanted to move, but
they used copious amounts of fuel, so if a pilot used afterburners, he used
them with caution (00:19:29:00)
The crew Yocum worked with got to the point when they did an aft section off,
people thought is was a Chinese fire drill (00:19:49:00)
o Yocum’s first job was to get onto the back of the aircraft and put the
engine hanger until the others pinned the engine so it would not roll out of
the aircraft (00:20:12:00)
o Another one of Yocum’s jobs was breaking loose the four nuts that held
the aft section on and once the repair was complete, Yocum’s job was to
torque the nuts back into place (00:20:38:00)
Took three thousands foot pounds (one hundred and forty four inch
pounds to a foot pound) to torque the nuts back into place, whereas
an average car tire requires sixty to eighty inch pounds to be
torqued (00:21:01:00)
Was at Clovis to learn the F-100 and its inner sequences and to get him over to
Vietnam, where he could be working and training at the same time (00:21:47:00)
Vietnam Deployment (00:22:05:00)
Flew on a commercial aircraft leased to the military on an eighteen hour flight in
a packed 707 aircraft (00:22:05:00)
Passengers were all military personnel because Cam Ranh was the dispersal point
in Vietnam and when they deplaned in Cam Ranh, they divided up amongst the
different services (00:22:25:00)
Getting into Cam Ranh was stepping into a sauna bath; high moisture and high
heat, but he was used to it from growing up where he did on the upper West Coast
(00:23:00:00)
At Phan Rang, he was assigned to the 352nd Attack Fighter Squadron, which was
flying F-100s at the time (00:23:43:00)
o Nothing on the base except F-100s and OV-10’s, an observation aircraft
used to drop markers on Charlie for the F-100s to attack (00:23:51:00)
While a Phan Rang, five or six times, they loaded daisy cutters, a thousand pound
bomb with a sixteen foot fuse in front (00:24:16:00)
�
o The bomb would explode two inches off the ground, leaving no hole but
destroying everything above two inches for a five hundred to one thousand
foot radius from the impact point (00:24:32:00)
o Bombs would destroy anything but was used mainly to create landing
zones in the jungle for helicopters (00:24:49:00)
o One time while he was there, they had a high priority to get create some
landing zones (00:25:02:00)
They knew a North Vietnamese Army Group was in the jungle
somewhere and the Air Force ended up finding them
serendipitously (00:25:10:00)
The spot the Air Force had chosen to drop the daisy cutters was
directly in the middle of the Army Group, leaving nothing much
but a sponge job (00:25:20:00)
From Cam Ranh, he took a C-131 out to Phan Rang (00:25:56:00)
Phan Rang (00:26:06:00)
Good sized base, although today would be considered a medium sized base, with
an emergency runway built with planking at the starting of the base and a concrete
runway and taxiway (00:26:06:00)
Had three layers of fencing, each one covered with razor darts and tm wire, which
would cut through even a leather glove (00:26:33:00)
They also had Army troops at the base and they would wake up at night when the
Army stopped firing the 105s because when it was silent was when they worried
(00:26:56:00)
One of the first things the enlisted men in the squadron did was look at their
bunker and decided it was not safe (00:27:08:00)
o They sat, designed, and built a new bunker which could take a 105 round
direct hit and not collapse (00:27:26:00)
o They tore down the old bunker and proceeded to build a new bunker
(00:27:43:00)
Took two 50 gallon barrels, welded them together and filled them
with sand and on each side, they had two layers of sandbags and an
openings they filled with sand (00:27:46:00)
Covered the roof with old planking and did the same thing with the
sandbags (00:28:18:00)
Planking was a honeycombed landing strip designed to be
dropped in a place so a plane could land (00:28:32:00)
Coming under fire was not common but it happened enough to make them realize
that they needed some kind of protection (00:28:56:00)
They had a new base commander come in about four or five months following the
Tet offensive and they received a mortar hit on the base (00:29:07:00)
o At the time, Charlie did not have a base line, making it difficult to pinpoint
attacks on the base and during the attack, the new commander got on the
AM radio and gave Charlie a complete hit report (00:29:24:00)
�
o The others drove an APC down to the command center, put the
commander into it, drove the APC onto a C-131 and flew the commander
out of county (00:30:21:00)
o Charlie had no base line to attack the base, not allowing to move their
artillery and although the commander was trying to calm people down, he
just used the wrong entity to do it with, the unsecure AM radio
(00:30:57:00)
o The base was hit a more frequently following the incident (00:31:36:00)
Incoming fire was mostly mortars (00:31:41:00)
o The enemy tried rocket attacks but whenever they would launch the
attacks, the Air Force would have something hitting the launch sites and
shooting the rockets out of the air (00:31:48:00)
They could go off base from seven am to six pm (00:32:02:00)
o They had three men from New York who decided to get haircuts at 5:00
and miss curfew and all three ended up dead (00:32:13:00)
o If they were off base and it was after six, they were dead (00:32:42:00)
They had civilians working on base and if they worked on base after six pm, they
stayed on base all night and were released in the morning (00:32:58:00)
Vietnam was his best time ever in the service (00:33:18:00)
From Vietnam, he went to Mountain Home Air Force Base in Idaho and ended up
going to another tech school (00:33:28:00)
o At one point, Yocum had a disagreement with an NCO and Yocum gave
“him a physics lesson” (00:33:40:00)
They were on the second floor of a building and they did not have
landings to go down to the first floor and the NCO told Yocum to
do something non-military, which Yocum took affront to
(00:33:53:00)
The NCO kept giving Yocum bad reports and one night, he ticked
Yocum off too much and Yocum leaned him over the side of the
staircase then slammed him against the wall (00:34:10:00)
o A week later, Yocum was in another tech school (00:34:33:00)
Every base came under attack during the Tet Offensive (00:34:51:00)
o The enemy had tunnels between the second and third row of fencing out
(00:34:55:00)
o First row was the base perimeter then thirty feet out was the second fence
and another thirty feet out was the third fence (00:35:02:00)
o The army forces defending the base dropped a mortar round directly into
the tunnel (00:35:25:00)
Everyone was on high alert for all the entire Tet season, meaning sixteen hour
days on the line, not including personal time (00:35:37:00)
o Normal day was twelve hours a day, six days a week, although sometimes
they went up to fourteen (00:35:58:00)
o They would get exhausted but would be refreshed by the day off
(00:36:10:00)
The actual attack on the base did not last long because they had 105 artillery and
the infantry and no enemy made it onto the base (00:36:28:00)
�
The enemy tried to bombard the base, but this was before they had the base line
(00:37:16:00)
o They had an Army construction unit on the base, which fixed any
problems to the point that the enemy could not tell what had been repaired
and what had not (00:37:22:00)
o They knew that Charlie sent people in on base as workers but there was
not a way for them to tell where the rounds had impacted (00:37:53:00)
In thirty days, they had a turnover of the entire squadron from bottom to top
(00:38:30:00)
o They had ten days to get the bottom troops used to the situation, then on to
the NCOs and finally the officers (00:38:38:00)
o The officers did not come in with a completely green unit; the others were
not ripe, but they were not green either (00:38:57:00)
After being in the military for eight to ten years, he could not go to a place
without running into someone he knew (00:39:41:00)
o The military is a very big small town and the longer Yocum was in, the
more he knew, both jobs and people (00:39:53:00)
Was at Phan Rang from 1967 to 1968; arrived at the end of his fifth year of
service and left at the end of his sixth year (00:40:12:00)
In the 352nd, they worked with munitions people; they did not specify only doing
specific jobs (00:40:34:00)
o When the munitions people were loading the .50 caliber guns, they would
tell Yocum readings on instruments around them so that he could do
service on them (00:40:48:00)
o They worked as teams, splitting each group in half and working on two
planes at once (00:41:28:00)
o One time, some high ranking officers had to have combat time and at the
appointed time, the planes from all three bases squadrons were not ready;
within thirty minutes, the 352nd planes were locked, loaded, and moving
out (00:41:47:00)
The 352nd had a much higher performance level than the other two squadrons on
the base (00:42:19:00)
o They did not have turf, saying that only a certain man could do a job; if a
job needed to be done, then they did it what they could (00:42:21:00)
o The enlisted men decided serendipitously to work together, instead of
against each other (00:43:12:00)
o Munitions had arrived a month before the mechanics; they changed units
by months so that there was always crews on hand (00:43:32:00)
o There was nothing wrong with doing something you could do to help
someone get the job done quicker, which was the whole idea behind
working together; the work had to be done, either singly or together, so
why do more work than necessary (00:43:54:00)
o The major and the captain in the squadron allowed the men to continue
working together; there was no animosity as long as the job was being
done 100% correctly (00:44:27:00)
�
o They worked as a unit, half mechanics / half munitions to get one plane
done (00:44:46:00)
The pilots were a separate group of people; they would come in whenever the
plane was ready in an air-conditioned van (00:45:05:00)
o The ground crew would assist in prepping the aircraft, starting it,
marshalling the plane out, and sending it on its way (00:45:17:00)
o The Air Force is easier about contact between an officer and an enlisted
man but there is still a line dividing them; the two sides got along and got
to know each other, but they did not fraternize with each other
(00:45:45:00)
The officers did not go to the NCO club and vice versa
(00:46:09:00)
Normal week was twelve hours a day, six days a week, then up to fourteen hours
a day, six days a week, then seven days a week and when it really got bad, it was
sixteen hours a day, seven days a week (00:46:27:00)
o There was always at least two time period groups overlapping each other;
the new group would talk with the old group to figure out what was
happening and once everything was going well, the old group would go
back (00:46:42:00)
The planes had been built in the late 1950’s and had done their time, but Yocum
saw things that dispelled the myth that the aircraft could not do something; i.e. an
F-100 with a two foot diameter hole in the wing that should not be able to fly, but
the pilot managed to land the plane on ground successfully (00:47:12:00)
o When they had unload the equipment from it, what was left of the airplane
was hauled over to the fire pits for the firefighters to train on
(00:47:55:00)
o One time, he was running a Deuce and a Half truck to start up an aircraft
when another Deuce and a Half caught fire and Yocum attempted to haul
the plane to safety (00:48:15:00)
Another man, seeing what was happening, swung a cable and
dislocated Yocum’s ankle (00:48:30:00)
Yocum believed he was dead because they had napalm and antipersonal bombs on the plane (00:48:53:00)
They had to send someone running after Yocum to catch him
(00:49:56:00)
Yocum did things in Vietnam that under normal conditions are physically
impossible to do, including a standing high jump of twenty four feet
(00:50:02:00)
o A stray bomblet was coming towards a group and when it impacted, it did
not explode; they could hear crickets because there was nobody around,
they had all somehow gotten out of the way (00:50:19:00)
o They had twenty-four foot tall steel walls, which Yocum cleared and then
flattened his body down (00:50:43:00)
They had a pilot that they hated because he was guaranteed one main tire change
whenever he landed (00:51:08:00)
�
o One time, an enemy plane fired an HE 20 mm shell that went up the intake
and lodged in the instrument panel in front of the pilot (00:51:23:00)
o The rounds were made to explode upon impact and if the pilot landed
rough, then the round would explode; the pilot ended up landing smooth
(00:51:59:00)
o The munitions crew dearmed the aircraft, the ground crew took the canopy
off and took the seat out (00:52:39:00)
o Yocum told the men working on the instruments that they had a choice:
they could go in an disconnect all the instruments or Yocum could go in
and cut everything eighteen inches back (00:52:50:00)
The instrument panel was held in with thirty-six spring snap locks
and Yocum had to make sure that the locks did not snap, or the
round would explode (00:53:21:00)
o Yocum ended up freeing the panel, hooking wires from a crane to the
panel and getting off the plane before gingerly moving the panel out with
a wire (00:53:58:00)
o They built a thirty-six diameter sand bag pit and buried the panel plus a
quarter pound of C4; the explosion nearly lifted the panel back up
(00:54:20:00)
o When they wanted the instruments, Yocum took what was left in a box
plus a letter saying it was combat damage and gave it to supply
(00:54:43:00)
Went once to Bangkok (00:55:36:00)
Was going to go to Japan but they had an alert and they canceled all leaves
(00:55:39:00)
o They had to fly planes up near the Vietnamese border and by the time they
were done, he did not have enough time to take the R&R (00:55:53:00)
Going to Bangkok was nice because he could relax; he did not have to worry
about the bad guy being one or two chairs over (00:56:14:00)
They were always nervous when they initially left the base (00:56:26:00)
o Yocum had a pineapple hand grenade thrown into his lap; it did not go off
and Yocum is still trying to figure out how he put his body through a steelrimmed hole smaller than his body (00:56:34:00)
o With the right incentive, you could do almost anything (00:56:55:00)
o Yocum had been off-base, downtown, getting on a “putt-putt” cab to
return to base when a grenade came in, bounced once and when it hit
again, it exploded (00:57:02:00)
o The Vietnamese would take a bicycle and pack the frame with C4; three or
four pounds of C4 would go off against the wall, so that the blast would
come out into the street (00:57:40:00)
They were always in non-combat situations, although they did receive some
combat situations; their main job was to make sure that the grounds guys had
airplanes ready for them to use (00:58:16:00)
Information on the success of the mission the crew participated in was classified
(00:58:57:00)
�
o “Don’t ask, don’t tell”, even if they knew the officer; if they asked, then
the officer had to report them (00:59:01:00)
They knew quite a bit about the actual war because Phan Rang was the in-country
R&R location of the 1st Infantry Division, the “Big Red One”, as well as a base
for Australians using the B-57 (00:59:17:00)
o They had sources of information; including the military newspaper, Stars
and Stripes, and some radio programs (00:59:44:00)
o They did not know which operations they were supporting; that
information was strictly “need to know” (01:00:18:00)
Another memorable moment was when “Puff” came online (01:00:51:00)
o “Puff” was an armed C-47; an old C-47 changed into an AC-47 by placing
gatling guns transversed through the fuselage (01:00:58:00)
o At night, they could watch as a red arch went from the plane to the
ground; only every fifth round caused the red arch, indicating a
tremendous rate of fire (01:01:17:00)
Take a football field, including end zones, and divide it up into one
foot squares and within three minutes, every square would have a
bullet in it (01:01:50:00)
o The firing sounded like a buzzsaw (01:02:17:00)
o They could see the plane in action because they knew where to look; at
night, they would look in a specific area (01:02:27:00)
o “Puff” would land at Phan Rang to get serviced before returning to their
main base; one of the planes that came in was older than Yocum, the
frame had been built in 1942 (01:02:49:00)
o When they went up to the C-119 and AC’d them, they became a nasty
aircraft; when these planes came online, they gave “Puff” to the
Vietnamese to use (01:03:23:00)
The aircraft carried two 75 mm recoilless rifles in the tail, four 20
mm gatling guns, and another pair of recoilless rifles
(01:03:43:00)
The planes could attack from the side or the tail and Charlie hated
them because they could not hear the planes (01:03:59:00)
o If the planes spotted Charlie, the whole area was saturated (01:04:08:00)
o The C-119 was just coming in when Yocum was leaving but he knew
about them (01:04:18:00)
Anybody worth his salt had a hundred day calendar; as soon as he hit a hundred
days, he had the calendar up and was marking it off (01:04:31:00)
o Near the end, everybody was packing up and getting ready to go while
waiting for their replacement body and as soon as someone’s replacement
arrived, the first person left because they did not have enough bunks for
two groups (01:04:49:00)
They did the replacements in a steady enough flow so that there were no problems
(01:05:07:00)
o In the last ten to twenty days of their time, the Air Force would bring in a
group of ten to twenty guys and twenty guys from the base would leave;
some men left before Yocum and some left after (01:05:14:00)
�
o The replacements had to be trained and shown what to do (01:05:45:00)
o Yocum does not know what happened to the 352nd after he left, although
he knows that it was deactivated (01:05:48:00)
In a war zone, you were either the best or the worst; there was not mediocre
because they did not have time to be (01:06:00:00)
o The men he worked with were the best group of guys he had ever been
with and although he cannot hardly remember any of the names of the
men he served with, he does remember what they did there (01:06:12:00)
While he was recovering from his dislocated ankle, he was placed temporarily in
charge of non-powered equipment (01:06:24:00)
o The position was supposed to be temporary but the man Yocum served
under received an emergency, had to return to the United States and
Yocum stayed in the position for the rest of his tour (01:06:36:00)
o Yocum eventually got payback (01:07:00:00)
He had ordered thirty-six rolls of three inch wide reflective tape
but instead he got three rolls of thirty-six inch wide tape
(01:07:09:00)
The tape was non-returnable, so whenever someone needed to put
a number on their vehicle, they would have to barter with Yocum
(01:07:25:00)
Yocum eventually had the best spray guns, compressors,
etc., because every piece needed a number on it
(01:07:36:00)
He even ended up with a cargo container to lock his stuff
up in, when before he had just a wood shack (01:08:01:00)
o He wanted to get back to working on planes but he did not because there
was no one able to take over the position (01:08:23:00)
o They flew a man in when Yocum had forty-five days left so that Yocum
could show him the ropes (01:08:31:00)
Returned to the United States September, 1968 (01:08:55:00)
o Any time someone transferred, they had the opportunity for leave, so long
as they had the time and they could borrow time, but only up to fifteen
days (01:09:01:00)
o Yocum had been in country for twelve months without leave, so he earned
thirty days worth of leave (01:09:12:00)
o Came back and landed in Seattle and on his leave, he circumvented the
United States; did not complete the last six hundred miles of the trip,
although he completed it later when he had a new car (01:09:24:00)
Following his leave, he reported to Mountain Home Air Force Base in Idaho; he
lived six hundred miles west of the base and on a three day leave, it took him ten
and a half to eleven hours to get home (01:10:16:00)
College kids had changed their attitudes towards soldiers, thanks largely to inept
politicians (01:10:55:00)
o The one guy that Yocum thought he could trust was Walter Cronkite, but
he turned out to be one of the worst; people trusted his word and he lied,
which really upset Yocum (01:11:05:00)
�
o Yocum had to be careful when he was around college towns because the
students would go after anything military and those who went to Vietnam
paid the price and never received a welcome (01:11:35:00)
They went out and did what they had to do and the students had no
right to criticizes them (01:12:02:00)
o Walter Cronkite would cherry pick the news scenes to show what the
soldiers were doing, both good and bad, although the soldiers did more
good than bad in comparison to the news (01:12:08:00)
They helped with building schools and tried to interact with the
local people, but the news portrayed them as gunning down
everyone they saw and blowing everything up (01:12:24:00)
o Yocum felt bad for the little girl in the famous napalm photo but Charlie
was there and he always hid behind the civilians (01:12:46:00)
o They had places that they could not attack and this was where Charlie was
(01:12:59:00)
Charlie had an old temple which served as his munitions storage
but the Air Force could not attack it (01:13:05:00)
o When they stopped the B-52 raids, they had Charlie broken if they had not
stopped the raids; once Charlie figured out the Air Force would only go so
far, Charlie knew they had the Air Force (01:13:24:00)
o Presently the politicians are not micromanaging as bad as they did during
Vietnam but there is still political micromanagement (01:13:45:00)
Let the military do the job it was trained to do; if the military had
its hands tied, then they could not do the job as well (01:13:51:00)
Like World War II, the military had to go in and decimate Vietnam and then let
the country rebuild (01:14:26:00)
o They had to go in and win the war first, then go in and do the politics; do
not go in and do the politics while fighting because it would cause the
military to lose (01:15:12:00)
o He sees World War II and the veterans are not angry, the Korean war and
how the veterans were a little angry, and finally Vietnam, were the
veterans are angry because they were punished for not doing the job and
not being allowed to do the job (01:15:57:00)
o The soldiers did not have the ability to make decisions (01:16:26:00)
One thing he wishes they had back in Vietnam was the A-10 attack fighter; the
ground crews love it and the pilots love it because they are well-protected
(01:16:32:00)
Post-Vietnam Service (01:17:08:00)
Was discharged from the Air Force in 1980 (01:17:08:00)
Starting at Mountain Home, he was an aircraft mechanic and this was where he
had the disagreement with an NCO (01:17:18:00)
o Air Force policy was to separate the men, so they sent Yocum to test
school and the NCO was not allowed to reenlist because soldiers had to be
given the invitation to reenlist or they would not be able to reenlist and
they would have to request retirement (01:17:30:00)
�
o Yocum knows a man who was discharged for twenty-six years without
retirement because his son did something illegal overseas (01:17:57:00)
If a soldier’s family does something wrong, then the soldier loses his enlistment,
which was what happened to Yocum (01:18:15:00)
o Yocum fought his discharge and managed to get to Jimmy Carter’s desk
(01:18:44:00)
o He was not scheduled to be reviewed until January 27th but on the day
before Thanksgiving, he was told he only had six days to leave the base
(01:18:48:00)
From Mountain Home, he went to Germany, where he served for four years;
originally was to be three years but the after their eighteen month party, their time
was extended another twelve months (01:19:19:00)
o Was at Bitburg Air Force Base, the Air Force Base that President Reagan
flew into (01:19:56:00)
o There was a controversy because the news media portrayed the President
as he was going to lay flowers at an old SS cemetery, when in reality, he
had to go past the cemetery to even get out of the base (01:20:29:00)
o Excellent base to serve at; got to know his ex-wife, who he married and
brought over to the United States (01:20:49:00)
From Germany, he went to Griffiths Air Force Base in Rome, New York, where
Woodstock II occurred (01:21:02:00)
From Griffiths, he and his wife lost a child and so the Air Force reassigned him to
an Air Base in Spokane, Washington (01:21:17:00)
o He and his wife had another child and Yocum received orders in 1976
sending him back to RAF Bentwater (01:21:34:00)
He should have known something was wrong with the troubles he was having, but
he did not and when he found out, he exploded (01:21:47:00)
o Personal information that destroyed his career (01:21:58:00)
Post-Military Life (01:22:13:00)
When Yocum was discharged, he was angry and although he is still upset, he is
not angry because the Air Force did what they had to do (01:22:13:00)
Upon discharge, Yocum did not look for work and instead tried to get medical
because he messed his back up when he was stationed at Griffiths; he bent over
and ripped every muscle in his spine (01:22:33:00)
o Over time, the pain has gotten worse and although he does the exercises
that he can, he is limited (01:23:01:00)
o The injury makes him unhireable because he is not able to do simple tasks,
such as stand for two hours or lift his back (01:23:09:00)
o It took him seven years of non-government funded therapy to get over his
anger (01:23:47:00)
Married his second wife just before his discharge in November of 1980
(01:23:52:00)
o He did not plan to be reviewed until late January or early February of the
next year when all of the sudden, he was discharged (01:24:02:00)
�
His second wife had a job that she worked at and Yocum kept up doing odd jobs
but he could never keep anything permanent (01:24:28:00)
o Finally, in 1985, Yocum was able to go back to school (01:24:37:00)
o Normally, with the trade he had chosen, Yocum would have gone to an
electronics school (01:24:45:00)
o When Yocum graduated, the major electronics companies, including IBM,
released a lot of their experienced technicians, making it difficult for an
untrained person, such a Yocum, to find a job (01:24:52:00)
His second wife is from Michigan and her parents live around the Crystal Lake
area (01:25:17:00)
He and his wife have two sons: the oldest son has been in the Air Force for ten
years and loves it and the youngest son recently married at the time of the
interview (01:25:33:00)
Yocum is still trying a few things to work out his problems and he has to dig
through records to prove what he has claimed, including civilian X-Rays that
show he does have problems in his back and hips (01:25:47:00)
o Every so often, he hears a click and his legs become rubber because a
nerve is being pinched in his back and no signals go to his legs
(01:26:18:00)
o Yocum does not count on much anymore, which contributes to his anger
at the Air Force and although he receives a small pension for his face, he
believes that the Air Force owes him a lot more (01:26:47:00)
He learned quickly in the military that it was all or nothing and there is no inbetween (01:27:07:00)
His time in the Air Force gave him a lot of knowledge, which he tried using but
because he had no college degree, it was difficult (01:27:55:00)
o One time, he went to an interview and told the interviewer to point out
something that he needed to be more productive; Yocum went in and fixed
one of the man’s slower production lines, making it more productive
(01:28:09:00)
o The man ended up hiring a college graduate and not hiring Yocum
because he did not have a college degree; Yocum told the man off, which
turned out to not be a smart decision (01:28:46:00)
o He showed the man what he could do and that he was not a dummy, just
because he did not have a piece of paper to hang on his wall; that had been
his job in the service, to keep production running smoothly (01:29:14:00)
o He loved doing the job, but management viewed the service as a burn-out
field; he went in and either became a cinder or a piece of steel and most
become cinders (01:29:48:00)
The men were under stress because the top was always looking
down and the bottom did not like what they were doing and the
men were the center of the target (01:30:06:00)
As long as Yocum did his job, nobody knew, but if he failed,
everybody knew (01:30:23:00)
o The men did not mind the problem although they did have some men who
were afraid to make a move, lest they upset someone (01:30:33:00)
�
o Twice in eleven years, Yocum had to go to his commander, both colonels
and after doing non-verbal communication, he was told to leave
(01:31:01:00)
Presently, civilians and the media are treating the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan
better, but they are still not treating the soldiers right (01:32:13:00)
o Yocum is happy to see that when they come back, there are happy crowds
and not agree crowds, although the crowds are mostly the soldier’s
relatives; anyone that is bad is kept away; during Yocum’s time, the
people would get right into his face (01:32:19:00)
o When his son returns, people see him in his uniform and they know who
he is (01:33:01:00)
He did four years of ROTC at Central Michigan, which was a
shock because Yocum did not recommend it, although the son used
him as a source for military protocol, which gave him a two rank
increase upon his graduation (01:33:04:00)
Makes Yocum proud because until the son is ready, he will not
take the test to move up in rank (01:33:38:00)
He has seen too many men burn out to the point that they cannot
do their job (01:34:46:00)
Try to get into a good field, but do not count on the field being the same when
you get out of school (01:35:30:00)
Do not reject the chance to go to school (01:35:58:00)
o Yocum would love to go back to school (01:36:10:00)
One time, when he was in a class, the teacher made Yocum assist the other
students (01:36:66:00)
o In the military, anyone over an E-5 takes classes to learn what they can do,
what they cannot do, what they need to do, and what they should never do
and they receive this training yearly (01:36:43:00)
If Yocum ever does go back to school, he never has to take the general education
classes (01:37:14:00)
He had wanted to switch over to accounting because he liked numbers
(01:37:30:00)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_YocumM
Title
A name given to the resource
Yocum, Michael (Interview outline and video), 2010
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2010-08-19
Description
An account of the resource
Michael Yocum was born in Seattle and grew up in the Mount St. Helens area of Washington. He enlisted in the Air Force in the early 1960's and after serving at several bases around the world as an aircraft mechanic, he did a tour in Vietnam at Phan Rang Air Force Base from 1967 to 1968. He remained in the Air Force until 1980, serving on bases in the US and Europe.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Yocum, Michael
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Moving Image
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/x-m4v
application/pdf
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c452a6d88c2d5d9a1e2270402b0254fd.m4v
97983a86124f30b8017f635b11fdf549
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a75346eafe09e337e85f5f8e766cb4e4.pdf
f9170f70372fbbce34a5eccb9f818a09
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Peace-time service, 1982
David Weaver Sr.
Length: 57 Minutes
Pre-Enlistment
Born in Madrid, Spain; 1964 (0:57)
Farther was stationed at Torrejon Air force base (1:06)
His father served for 22 years, retiring in Muskegon as a recruiter (1:16)
His father retired in 1974 (1:24)
He is the youngest, so his father did not move around as much; his brothers and sister endured
more of that (1:31)
They stayed in Spain for about 18 months before moving to Michigan (1:42)
They moved to the southeast side of Grand Rapids, living on College Street and he went
Brookside Elementary School (1:59)
It was a very nice and suburban neighborhood, but they were one of the first African-American
families that moved there; it had not been integrated yet (2:18)
There was some tension and bullying, but he became involved in sports (2:38)
�In the Fourth Grade he promoted to the Sixth Grade team, which led to him being more accepted
(3:04)
He had support from the teachers, specifically, Jeanne Brederland, who saw that he was troubled
and took the initiative to take him to her farm, in Zeeland, Michigan (3:25)
Her son, also named David, was older, bigger, and tough, which gave Weaver someone to look
up to (3:35)
One thing that he learned from the weekend in the farm was the importance of hard work and
discipline (3:48)
He went to Ottawa Hills High school, where he was on the first team to win the citywide football
championship (4:04)
Enlistment
He joined the delayed enlistment program while in high school, so he joined the Air Force on
November 30 of 1982 (4:17)
At first he had wanted to go to college and got a partial scholarship to Fisk University, but he did
not have the money to finish school (4:43)
He decided to join the Marines (he liked the uniform), his father sat him down and asked him
what he was going to do after the military (5:20)
His father than pointed out that he came from a lineage of members of the Air Force, his father
and uncles had all served for twenty years and his brother and cousin had also served (5:22)
So Weaver decided to try to take the test for the Air Force, and he scored very well. He got into
base procurement and moved to George Air Force Base, in Victorville, California (5:49)
�His basic training was at Lackland in San Antonio, Texas (5:53)
Boot Camp
He performed with the veteran’s creative arts festival which is a way to for veterans to heal using
the arts (the year before the interview) (6:29)
He won awards for singing but the year before the interview he did a stand up routine about his
time at boot camp (6:64)
His drill instructor’s breath smelled bad, which was part of his routine (7:15)
Basic Training was the beginning of the process the make his thinking more like the military
(7:42)
They took all of the recruits’ clothes and replaced it with a military uniform (7:50)
Everything is government issued, he had been prepared because of the experiences of his brother
and father, so he had already buzz cut his hair, but then they “buzz cut” his buzz cut (8:11)
Important part was changing the mindset, including uniform military code of justice and the rank
system, but the most important was to respect the rank even if they did not respect the person
(8:48)
He was there for about six weeks; they counted the working days but not the weekend (9:07)
They learned how to shine shoes, through spit-shining shoes, which he had not heard of before
(9:43)
They did a mile run, and there was pushups and sit ups, their main goal was to control the weight
to keep their frames small. (10:01)
�Not as hard as the Army and Marines, but was still important for them to stay in shape (10:24)
He did not know what his specialization was going to be; after he took the test he was given a
multiple options (10:46)
He was not sure what procurement was at first but after it was explained to him he felt it was the
best option, because it was something that could be transitioned into something else in the
civilian world (11:03)
A procurement specialist bought goods and services for the base (11:14)
They bought everything the bases needed, from fuel to the patches for the uniform (11:33)
Training School
His secondary training is called training school, and he was trained at Lowry Air Force Base in
Denver, Colorado (11:45)
It was a classroom setting and he was trained by both military and civilian teachers because of
the amount of interfacing with the civilian world (12:03)
There were also civilians training there to take civilian jobs in the government that served a
similar procurement role (12:22)
He worked with the civilian workers who managed the computers that calculated the cost to
government, through computer cards (13:09)
The technical school was much less restricted than the boot camp, there was more free time and
he was able to go to church (14:11)
�In his spare time he played basketball and was involved in a choir, which was important to him
because singing helped him through the transition (14:37)
He was in tech school for 18 weeks (15:03)
He was given a dream sheet so he put bases in Southern California as his first three choices,
because he thought it would nice to live there (15:30)
George Air Force Base
He got his first choice, but it was not by the beach, but in a town called Victorville, in the middle
of the desert. (15:40)
Initially he was involved in the follow up section, finding out why supplies had not been
delivered or had to get more as needed (16:12)
He was one of the first Airmen Basic to be sent to the procurement office, most who worked
there were NCO who had trained in other departments then were added to procurement later
(16:48)
He really enjoyed the work (17:01)
A lot of the job was contacting the companies the orders were from; one thing he learned was
that the government got precedence in everything they were doing, to the point that they could
shut down the facility until the materials were made (17:39)
He did not do that while in the military but did later when working for Northrop-Grumman
when a company did not deliver their landing gear for the B-2 stealth bomber (18:22)
He “volunteered”; he was sent because he was new, to join the drill team that performed at
parades and funerals (19:08)
�He really enjoyed the experiences and felt that the drill team was exceptional (19:46)
They performed largely in California but also were in several nearby states, such as Arizona
(20:14)
The military wanted to train him in all aspects of procurement so he was transferred to supplies
buying (20:50)
They purchased everything from basic supplies to fuel, and this section was all military which
led it to feel different from the earlier job (21:34)
He had become an airman first class by this point but most of the people he worked with were
NCO’s (21:50)
Problems with the Military Justice System
He started to have problems in 1984 when he was sent to buy ground fuel, when found out that
the contract had not be secured by the Department of Defense (22:28)
This was particularly a problem because his base was contingency base which meant they were
to fly sorties as part of a simulated war (22:43)
The order had been coded improperly meaning that it was need now but he had no contract to
refer to and his section chief was on temporary duty meaning that he was not used to the job
(23:31)
He had to call the Department of Defense and was given the instructions for the situation,
however after the order had been filled out there were some discrepancies and some of the
documentation was missing (24:19)
�He had to get a letter confirming information from the company and then had to recover the
letter after the military threw it away (24:54)
After his supervisor returned, the supervisor said that Weaver was derelict in his duty and
Weaver was sent for non-judicial punishment (25:27)
He was blamed for problems with the paperwork that were outside of his control (26:39)
He challenged it, but had to put together his own legal case and defend himself. He was given
documentation that he needed to win the case, and he only got a letter reprimand rather than
being kicked out of the Air Force (28:03)
He was punished because the Air Force was unwilling to admit that they screwed up (28 34)
He was temporarily removed from the drill team, for 6 months, after which he was reinstated to
the drill team and he moved on to the services branch (29:29)
For a short time he manned all three desks at the services branch because the other soldiers went
on temporary duty (29:51)
He was able to create training for the requesting agency to make their documents more accurate
(30:31)
He was able to work with drill team, though he later requested to leave to give someone else the
experience, he worked on servicing full time (30:44)
He continued working service until 1986 when he left the military for to work at NorthropGrumman (30:58)
He had more issues with the military, mostly from the officer in charge of the section, possibly
because of racism (31:49)
�The officer began documents that would led to his expulsion, however these efforts were blocked
by the base Colonel who liked Weaver and felt he was doing a good job (33:10)
This meant that he was able to go to leadership school and was made Senior Airman, a junior
NCO rank, but the damage had been done and he decided to leave the military (34:10)
This was also partly decided because he wanted to join the ministry, and he had been licensed in
1985 (34:38)
He had been treated very badly by the Air Force in his trials, which led to him dealing with
PTSD. (36:13)
He was sent to the correctional custody, which was based off boot camp, he was forced to run
around the camp and then completely disrobe (37:13)
He had never had to do anything like this before. He had to strip in front the officers that filed
the complaint and read the manual of correctional custody (37:42)
He broke down during this and tried to quit, but he was able to call the Base Commander who
encouraged him to fight (38:17)
The Commander allowed him to put his underwear back on and he finished the document, and
the other prisoners said no one else had t go through out. (39:13)
That experience followed him, and his performance reviews began to suffer, he married and he
put himself more into biblical studies (40:13)
He had more problems because even though he had done exceptionally well, he was marked
down for the earlier problems (42:02)
�Post Military Career
When one of the NCO’s he worked with retired, he told Weaver that the NCO was going to work
for Northrop-Grumman and when Weaver left the service to call him, and Weaver would have a
job (42:58)
He was involved in the building of the B2 Bomber, however the vendor began to fall behind so
he had to take over so they could finish on time (43:40)
After 2 years he transferred to General Dynamics (43:50)
He worked there for about a year, while there he was he sang “The Greatest Love” by Whitney
Houston and received a standing ovation (44:38)
His superior suggest that he follow his music career, so Weaver did (44:43)
He had a long music career, where he was involved in christian music, theatre, and had balance
in his life (45:41)
He created the alter ego Prophet Ramone twenty years before the interview (45:44)
After he joined the Grumman he went to seminary school, where he learned that term,
“reverend” was not biblical, so he wanted a term that meant something similar (47:17)
He choose the term, “prophet”, because in the Old Testament it was used to mean someone who
spoke for God, not someone who saw the future. (47:17)
He picked Ramone because it was the Spanish version of his first name (48:46)
�He did not run his church, but he produced music. He released an album, and performed at the
Apollo Theater in New York City (48:15)
He wrote many different motivational and faith based texts, and worked in theater (48:56)
He was promoted from sales rep all the way to marketing director at the Milwaukee Repertory
Theater (49:48)
His PTSD continued to be a problem, though it went undiagnosed until 2011 (50:56)
At the time, he had divorced his wife, suffering from drug problems, and was homeless.
Someone told him he could get help from the VA (51:12)
He went to the VA and was able to get treatment for depression and drug abuse, and through
work with counselor realized that he had PTSD (52:05)
He did not realize that he could get PTSD from a noncombat situation (52:14)
He got help with his brain injury and his PTSD from the VA (52:28)
His brain injury was from a head on collision while he was on the basketball team in the military
(53:24)
He lived in New York for some time, but had become homeless again. His estranged daughter
sent him a message through Facebook, which led him to reconnect with his family (55:06)
He decided to return to help his family to because father was on full time oxygen (55:34
He received help from VA to get his Masters in Divinity in Grand Rapids (56:26)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_WeaverD1666V
Title
A name given to the resource
Weaver, David, Sr.(Interview outline and video), 2014
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-09-04
Description
An account of the resource
David Weaver Sr. was born in 1964 in Madrid, Spain, where his father was in the Air Force, and grew up in Michigan. He joined the Air Force in 1982 trained at Lackland and later Lowry Air Force Bases and became a procurement specialist. He served at George Air Force base working in the procurement department and serving on the base's drill team. Conflicts with some of his superiors led to a situation in which he was mistreated badly enough to lead to PTSD, and while he worked through those problems, he chose to leave the Air Force when his enlistment ended in 1986.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Weaver, David, Sr.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Moving Image
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/x-m4v
application/pdf
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2d88727073214362a279453842b30deb.mp4
53d98020d50acb6332010adbe2947811
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5e739863199a53d9aacf095e39f97471.pdf
183ad761a0dc0a57d1928a0b530817b7
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
James Turner
Cold War
1 hour 36 minutes 33 seconds
(00:00:13) Early Life
-Born on March 8, 1940 in Guntown, Mississippi
-One of 13 children
-Moved to Missouri when he was four years old
-Lived there for one year
-Moved to Benton Harbor, Michigan when he was five years old
-Family of migrant workers
-Lucrative fruit farms in Benton Harbor area
-Older brothers worked in the automotive industry
-Father got a factory job at Superior Steel
-Went to school in Benton Harbor
-In the summers the family went down to Missouri to pick cotton
-Came back late to school near the end of October every year
-Attended a one room school for kindergarten through the sixth grade
-Went to Bard Elementary School in Benton Harbor
-Had to repeat the fifth grade because of missing some of school due to work
-No program to make up school work
-Remembers some student that had to repeat eighth grade
-One brother was 17 years old and still in the ninth grade
-Left school and joined the military
-Enjoyed working in Missouri as a child
-Taught him to love work
-Coincidentally, he wound up working at Bard Elementary School in 1995
-Remembers the family member that picked the most cotton got an additional 50 cents
-Sometimes he got the 50 cents, but wound up sharing it with his brothers and sisters
-Visited New Madrid, Missouri on the weekends when the family was in Missouri
-Always a lot of fun
-Remembers a huge flood in Missouri
-Only a barn on a hill escaped the flood
-Remembers over one hundred people staying in the barn to escape the water
(00:07:29) Race Relations Pt. 1
-Too young to be aware of racial tensions in Missouri
-Black and white people worked the cotton fields together
-Bard Elementary School was integrated
-Slightly more black students than white students
-Best friend was a white boy
-Killed in a hunting accident
(00:09:18) Early Life Pt. 2
-Graduated from Benton Harbor High School
-Played basketball at Bard Elementary School
-Played with Chet Walker, now in the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame
-James is featured in a photo in a book about Chet Walker
�-Lived in the government housing projects (government apartments) in Benton Harbor
-Good place to live at the time and better than living on a farm (indoor plumbing for one thing)
-Remembers a lot of friends lived in the apartments
-Had sports teams for recreation
-Played tennis at Hall Park
-Curiosity in the 1950s for black people to play tennis
-Went on to play tennis at Lake Michigan College and in the Air Force
-He was the first black captain of the junior varsity basketball team
-Only lasted one week due to local political pressure
-Played football in the summers
-Remembers one boy began to hate James after James critiqued his passing abilities
-He became the starting running back in junior varsity high school football team
-When he was in the upper class he got snubbed for a varsity position because of local politics
-When he was in the Air Force he played basketball
-Played against a team from the Greenland air base
-The kid that hated him played on the Greenland air base team
-Graduated from high school in 1958
-Tried to enlist in the Army
-Rejected due to high blood pressure
-Went to Lake Michigan College
-At the time it was called “Benton Harbor Community College & Technical Institute”
-Graduated from there after two years
(00:20:23) Enlisting in the Air Force
-Enlisted in the Air Force after graduating from college
-Sneaked in a pencil to change his blood pressure records
-Went on to have a successful, 20 year career in the Air Force
-Having high blood pressure never gave him any problems
(00:21:39) Racial Relations Pt. 2
-Racial tension caused stress which led to high blood pressure
-Wasn't a problem when he was overseas due to a more integrated environment
-Experienced racism and tension at Benton Harbor High School
-More white students coming in from the surrounding area
-This led to black students being the minority
-By the 1980s the black students were the majority
-Didn't have a black professor until he got to Jarvis Christian College in Hawkins, Texas
-Remembers black teachers and their families moving up to Benton Harbor
-As time progressed, jobs vanished, followed by government programs, which led to poverty
(00:27:11) Chaplain's Assistant & Military Police in the Air Force
-When he first went into the Air Force he wanted to be in the Military Police
-Guaranteed he would get that position by the recruiter
-Got to Lackland Air Force Base and was told he would go into administration, not MP
-Future brother-in-law advised him to talk to Representative Henry B. Gonzalez
-Talked to the general at Lackland Air Force Base on James's behalf
-While he was waiting to hear about the MP position he helped in the chapel
-Learned that there were positions available to help in the chapel and help the chaplain
-Went to a technical school to serve as a chaplain's assistant
-When he was in Turkey he conducted tours of the Holy Land and other religious locations
-Retraced the path of St. Paul's first missionary journey
-Visited Bethlehem, Jerusalem, the Church of Antioch, Nazareth, and Mount Ararat
�-Stood on the banks of the Tigris, Euphrates, and Nile Rivers
-Surreal to be in places he'd learned about in school
-Eventually sent to a university after he returned from Turkey
-Studied police administration, law enforcement security, and correction
-Went through Officer Training and the Police Academy
-Served as the project officer when Bunker Hill Air Force Base became Grissom Air Force Base
-Remembers being there on April 4, 1968 when Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated
-After Dr. King's assassination racial tensions flared at the base
-A black airman and a white airman got into a fist fight
-They were brought before him which led to an idea
-Started the first ever human relations council and race relations program
(00:34:01) Basic Training
-Enjoyed basic training at Lackland Air Force Base
-Whole life changed in a matter of days
-Had never had that kind of structure
-Only two other black recruits in his training flight
-Technical sergeant was a “redneck,” but he made sure everyone was treated equally
-Everyone looked the same regardless of race when they had shaved heads and uniforms
-Everyone had to meet certain standards
-If you couldn't keep up you were discharged
-Enjoyed the sense of fairness
-He was placed in charge of the men cleaning the latrines
-Didn't mind washing dishes when he pulled kitchen patrol duty
-Always wanted to work on the pots and pans
-Nobody ever bothered him when he cleaned pots and pans
-Pots and pans shined when he was done
-Gratifying to see immediate results of a job well done
(00:39:35) Race Relations Pt. 3
-Received race relations training in the Air Force
-In 1971 the Department of Defense created the Defense Race Relations Institute
-James worked there which led to getting selected to work in the Nixon administration
-Assistant to President Nixon's secretary of defense
-Told James race relations were so bad in the military national security was at stake
-Race relations classes lasted 40 hours for one week
-Had to repeat the classes if necessary
-Helped the Department of Defense become the first government institute to integrate race and gender
-Military has become an environment where race relations can be successful
(00:42:33) Benton Harbor School Board & Race Relations
-He is now a member of the Benton Harbor School Board
-Benton Harbor's high school football team had only won 22 games in 13 years
-Had lived in Texas for 13 years
-Knew the new coach and the athletic director
-First game of the season (away) the team lost
-Next game was at home, and the team won
-Won the game after that, and the game after that
-Boys on the team regained their confidence
-Some of the black people in Benton Harbor didn't like having a white coach
-He defended the coach because he helped the boys regain the confidence
-Victories brought the community together again
�-Brought in people from the surrounding area that had gone to Benton Harbor High School
(00:49:50) Service as a Chaplain's Assistant Pt. 1
-Chaplain's assistant does clerical work for the chaplain
-Laid vestments out for priest (he is Catholic)
-Conducted mass a few times because the chaplain was not available
-Chapel conducted Dynamic Moral Leadership courses for personnel on the base
-Everyone had to go to those classes
-Played films about scenarios then discussed the scenarios
-Inspired him to get into race relations and human relations work in the Air Force
-Showed him that communication was key to dealing with issues
(00:52:56) Race Relations Pt. 4
-Best race relations classes were when airmen were open and honest in the discussions
-Worked with a master sergeant to help teach the airmen
-Remembers a white sergeant that complained about things during Black History Month
-Felt Soul Food should be called “Southern Food” because he ate it growing up too
-Why did the base have to play “black music” during Black History Month?
-In another class they discussed interracial marriage
-Same racist sergeant from earlier opposed to interracial marriage
-One female airman said her fiance was a black man
-Sergeant went to the other end of the room to be away from her
-Remembers a black airman saying it was always difficult for him to encounter a “good” white person
-Felt like he was supposed to unconditionally hate white people
-Taught 10,000 personnel during his time in race relations
-Saw it as a war he had to fight with the people
(00:58:15) Patriotism & Black Veterans Pt. 1
-In 2010 he started to work with black Americans on patriotism
-Started the Glad to be American National Association
-Trying to teach black Americans to participate and be proud of being American
-Remembers running into an old friend that was a black veteran, but he never showed it
-He didn't feel patriotic because he fought alongside other black soldiers and white soldiers
-Came home to racism, discrimination, and police brutality
-On the anniversary of 9/11 he conducts a commemoration at Benton Harbor High School
-Lowers the flag to half mast at the time when the first jet hit the first tower
-Had 500 people come for the commemoration
(01:02:36) Terrorism in Europe
-Worked as the police chief in Spain then worked at Spangdahlem Air Base, Germany
-Stationed in Germany from 1976 to 1978
-Dealt with the Baader-Meinhof Gang and the Red Brigades
-Terrorist groups robbed banks and carried out bombings
-Assassinated a German industrialist
-Hijacked a Lufthansa airliner
-The terrorists wanted to get a hold of American “special weapons” at Spangdahlem Air Base
-James was responsible for keeping the terrorists off the base
-Stressful because his family and other American families lived on the base
-Served as the terrorist threat liaison at Spangdahlem Air Base
-Worked with local German police and the FBI
-Difficult job
-In Turkey he worked with Muslims when he was a chaplain's assistant
-The Muslims admired him and some of the men wanted him to convert to Islam
�-They explained, in 1965, that they were going to kill all Christians and Westerners
-Shocked him that they felt that way
-Saw their plans come to fruition on September 11, 2001
-Which in turn made him want to memorialize 9/11 in a formal way
-Now he talks about his firsthand experiences with terrorism and terrorist mentalities
(01:09:58) Stationed in Spain & American Bicentennial
-He was in Spain from 1971 to 1976
-Started off working with the police then moved on to race relations
-At the time American citizens living off the base could not fly the American flag
-Even on July 4th
-He reached out to the Spanish government because America's Bicentennial was fast approaching
-Felt Americans ought to be able to celebrate their country's bicentennial
-Knew someone who worked closely with King Juan Carlos I and General Francisco Franco
-Told James he could talk to those men about the flag issue
-On July 4, 1976, the Spanish government allowed Americans to fly the American flag
(01:14:30) Patriotism & Black Veterans Pt. 2
-When he was a young recruit he laughed at older veterans that got emotional about patriotism
-Now, he understands and feels the same way
-Numerous black Americans have fought for the United States since the Revolutionary War
-One of his uncles fought in World War I
-An older brother fought in World War II
-Received five Bronze Stars and had a metal plate in his head from wound he sustained
-Three of his older brothers fought in the Korean War
(01:17:57) Serving at the University of Michigan
-Served as assistant professor of aerospace studies at the University of Michigan with the Air Force
-Recruited minority students and minority students from the Detroit area
-Talked to black high school students from Detroit
-They excelled at math, but didn't believe in their abilities
-Enjoyed working at the University of Michigan
-Met with the governor of Michigan and state representatives
(01:20:30) Work Ethic
-Mother and sisters worked for the Whirlpool Corporation
-Saw billboards in Europe advertising Whirlpool products
-Proud that his relatives helped make that corporation successful
-Parents and older siblings taught him to work hard and have aspirations
(01:24:36) Service as a Chaplain's Assistant Pt. 2
-Worked as chaplain's assistant in New York
-Wound up in the film The Hustler
-Asked if he wanted to be in the movie as an extra
-Movie wound up winning an Academy Award
-He made $600 or $700 from working in the movie
(01:26:46) Connection to the Tuskegee Airmen
-Felt a powerful connection to the Tuskegee Airmen
-Has met white bomber crewmen that were protected by the Tuskegee Airmen
-Swore by those pilots
-Knew the famous black flying ace Lt. Colonel Lee Archer
-James's basketball coach at Stewart Air Force Base in New York
-Made James the captain of the basketball team
-Said that James should strive to become a captain in the Air Force
�-Eventually became an officer in the Air Force
(01:28:59) Becoming an Officer
-First time he saw a black officer was at Stewart Air Force Base, New York
-James introduced himself to the officer and they wound up talking for quite a while
-Officer invited James to continue the conversation in his office
-When they entered the law enforcement building everyone stood and saluted the officer
-After he graduated from the police academy he reported for duty with the Military Police
-Walked into the law enforcement building and everyone stood and saluted James
-Never thought that he would be an officer
-Black officer and Lt. Colonel Archer inspired him to become an officer
(01:33:20) Work at Eastern Michigan University Pt. 1
-Took terminal leave from the University of Michigan to work at Eastern Michigan University
-Interim minority affairs officer
(01:33:54) Vandenberg Air Force Base
-Prior to taking terminal leave from the University of Michigan he worked at Vandenberg AFB
-His flight came in last in every competition and every field of study
-He managed to turn them around and make them the first in everything
(01:35:27) Work at Eastern Michigan University Pt. 2
-When he worked at Eastern Michigan University he received university and Air Force pay
-Thought it was luck, but in reality it was because he worked so hard
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_TurnerJ1909V
Title
A name given to the resource
Turner, James F.A. (Interview outline and video), 2015
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-08
Description
An account of the resource
James Turner was born on March 8, 1940 in Guntown, Mississippi. When he was five years old his family moved to Benton Harbor, Michigan. In 1960 (approximately) he enlisted in the Air Force. He received basic training at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas. After that he served as chaplain's assistant both in the United States and in Turkey where he conducted tours of the Holy Land and holy sites in the area. He went on to receive Officer Training and training from the Police Academy and got into the Military Police of the Air Force. He served in Spain as part of the Military Police and at Spangdahlem Air Base in Germany where he dealt with the Baader Meinhof Gang and Red Brigades (terrorist groups). He also served at Stewart Air Force Base, New York and at Bunker Hill Air Force Base, Indiana (now Grissom Air Force Base). During his 20 year career in the Air Force he also helped establish human relations courses and race relations courses, specifically with the Department of Defense and President Nixon's Secretary of Defense. He concluded his Air Force career at the University of Michigan where he worked in aerospace studies and recruited minority students.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Turner, James F.A.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Moving Image
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fd89cca37672fac484a3244d4951936c.mp4
adda53e3ba64c542a9c46f56d020f162
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1d16b4081ba183845704ef32589a2fee.pdf
bd4d0395fd171beada96a1ed506a1f06
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
David Schaper
World War II
40 minutes 24 seconds
(00:00:02) Early Life
-Born in Wright City, Missouri on August 2, 1921
-Graduated from high school
-Went to Central Western College for two semesters
-Transferred to Sanford-Brown Business College in St. Louis, Missouri
(00:00:38) Start of the War and Enlisting in the Army Air Force
-He was going to technical school in St. Louis when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor
-Heard about it on the radio and in the newspaper
-Knew that he was old enough to be drafted
-Wanted to choose the branch that he would go into
-He was working on airplane technology
-Took the Army Air Force test and passed it
-Thought it'd be better to be an airman rather than in the infantry
-Eventually received his letter to report for service
-He was working at a Curtiss-Wright factory, helping to develop the AT-6
-Reported for service, but was told that he was too important to the war effort
-Granted a six month deferrment
-Received another letter and got deferred for another six months
-Received a third letter and insisted that he would be allowed to serve
-While he was home he followed the news coming out of Europe and Asia
-Had friends that were flying with the 8th Air Force and had flown with the
Flying Tigers
(00:05:43) Basic Training
-Reported to Jefferson Barracks in St. Louis
-One good friend was there as a sergeant and gave him a pass to go to St. Louis
-Sent to Amarillo Army Air Field, Texas for basic training
-Saw a lot of men doing calisthenics
-Got processed and issued Air Force clothing
-Days started at 4 AM
-Reported for roll call and then had breakfast
-After breakfast received orders for the day
-Some days went on marches, or on bivouacs, or for calisthenics
-Basic training lasted six weeks
(00:07:48) Gunnery Training
-At the end of basic training he was reviewed by a flight surgeon
-Was hoping that he would get to be a cadet and go on to become a pilot
-He qualified to be a pilot, but there was a need for gunners
-Sent to Laredo Army Airfield, Texas for gunnery training
-Enjoyed gunner training
�-Went on the gun range and learned how to shoot the .50 caliber machine gu
-Learned how to maintain the .50 caliber machine gun
-Did skeet shooting for accuracy practice
(00:09:40) Joining a Crew
-Sent to Lincoln, Nebraska where new bomber crews were being formed
-There were one thousand airmen there waiting to be assigned to a crew
-They were forming ten man crews for the B-24 Liberator bomber
-Your name was called off in alphabetical order
-Once he was assigned to a crew the pilot had the information about where to go next
-In the case of his crew the next destination was Davis-Monthan Army Air Field
-Granted ten days of leave before reporting to Davis-Monthan
-After their leave the crew regrouped at Davis-Monthan Army Air Field near Tuscon,
Arizona
-Once there the crew got to meet each other and get to know each other better
-Began flying training missions with the crew
-Learned to depend on the pilot, co-pilot, and navigator
-Fired at ground targets
-Learned how to fly at night
-Had an excellent crew
-There was mutual respect between the officers and the enlisted men
(00:13:45) Deployment to the European Theatre
-Sent to Topeka Army Air Field, Kansas by train to get their B-24 bomber
-Given a three day leave and got to see Kansas City
-Their bomber was a brand new, shining plane
-Had all new guns and electronics
-He was nervous, but excited to fly missions in it
-Had their picture taken and they flew up to Massachusetts
-He was part of Crew #54
-From Massachusetts they flew to Newfoundland, then to the Azores, then to North
Africa
-From North Africa flew up to Cerignola Airfield, Italy
-Note: Based on unit, it was probably Torretto Airfield, not Cerignola
-There were between twenty and thirty bombers at the airfield when they arrived
-They were part of the 766th Bombardment Squadron 461st Bombardment Group
-The officers were sent to the officers' quarters and enlisted men sent to their quarters
-Slept in a barn that was used as a temporary barracks and the chapel
-It was better than sleeping in tents
-Met with some of the other crews
-Played cards together
(00:19:35) Flying Missions
-Next morning learned that he was going to fly a mission
-Crew was split up for that mission because various crews needed replacements
-It was similar to their training missions, but now it was real
-Their objective was Linz, Austria
-Took off and formed up and flew to Linz
-The bomb run began and they started taking flak
�-Saw bombers getting hit, one P-51 Mustang got hit by flak
-One bomber had to fall out of formation and they didn't know what happened to
the crew
-Their bombardier was on board that bomber
-After returning from that mission they went through a debriefing
-Learned three weeks later what had happened to their bombardier
-Had survived the crash in Yugoslavia, but was killed by the
Ustase
-Four of the crew were rescued by Yugoslavian partisans
-Flew a mission to Vienna, Austria and one of their gas tanks got hit by flak
-Transferred the gas from that tank to another intact tank
-Could see tracers going past the bomber
-If one tracer hit the bomber it would have ignited the gasoline
-Landed at an airfield on an island off the coast of Yugoslavia
-Had to abandon the bomber, but the crew got picked up by a C-47 the
next day
-On one mission he looked back to see if the bombs were hitting their target
-A bullet came through the plexiglass right where his head had been
-Final mission was in the Po Valley
-Dropping supplies to Allied prisoners of war in Austria
-Could see displaced persons travelling on the roads
(00:33:22) End of the War
-At Torretto Field when Germany surrendered on May 8, 1945
-Celebrated the war being over with bourbon
-Returned to South Carolina and was given thirty days of leave to go home and await
orders
-His original orders were to go to Tampa, Florida
-Orders were changed to Pratt Army Airfield, Kansas
-At Pratt he started training with the B-29 Superfortress
-Preparing for the invasion of Japan
-Trained with the B-29 in July 1945
-He got married on July 12, 1945
-Was able to get a job off the base to earn a little extra money
-Reported for duty one morning and learned that the atomic bombs had been dropped
-Shortly thereafter training was cancelled
-Felt great that the war was over
(00:36:11) End of Service
-Received orders to go to Sioux City Army Air Base, Iowa to be discharged
-Had enough "points"
-Needed eighty five points to be discharged
-Points awarded based on rank, length of service, dependents, and combat
seen
-Took a train to St. Louis with his wife, got an apartment, and got a job as a machinist
(00:36:30) Reflections on Service
-Taught him responsibility
-Taught him how to work with other people
�-Learned how to survive
(00:38:02) Life after the War
-Went into the grocery business after the war
-Had enjoyed tool and die work, but there weren't many jobs after the war
-Went back to work for Curtiss-Wright, but the work was limited
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_SchaperD1798V
Title
A name given to the resource
Schaper, David (Interview outline and video), 2005
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2005-10-22
Description
An account of the resource
David Schaper was born in Wright City, Missouri on August 2, 1921. Prior to enlisting in the Army Air Force he worked for Curtiss-Wright on the AT-6, even after enlisting he was granted a twelve month deferrment due to his work on the AT-6. He was eventually called up for service and was sent to Texas for basic training and gunnery training. He was assigned to a B-24 Liberator bomber crew in Lincoln, Nebraska. They trained together before being deployed to the European Theatre. They were Crew #54 of the 766th Bombardment Squadron of the 461st Bombardment Group stationed at Torretto Air Field, Italy. They flew bombing missions into Austria, as well as supply missions into the Po Valley. In the summer of 1945 he was sent back to the United States and began training with the B-29 Superfortress at Pratt Army Air Field, Kansas in July. After Japan surrendered he was sent to Sioux City Army Air Bse, Iowa where he was discharged.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Schaper, David
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Moving Image
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/32fd1409ccb7764933a8a8b8d708089c.mp4
bc1535b46a211beb5032efdc8a33fb56
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d09a58076310a52c923df9be2156f65d.pdf
16ffb5105bd4d41c12d0ec1dea8da824
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Bill Schaefer
Cold War-Vietnam War Era
1 hour 30 minutes 13 seconds
(00:00:38) Early Life
-Born in Murfreesboro, Tennessee in 1943
-Came to Grand Rapids, Michigan with his family after World War Two
-Father’s family was from Michigan
-Owned an apple orchard
-Father had served in the military during WWII in California and Tennessee
-Attended high school in Grand Rapids
-Went to Grand Rapids Community College and Western Michigan University
-Graduated from college in April 1965
(00:01:47) Enlisting in the Air Force
-A lot of young men were getting drafted due to the escalation of the Vietnam War
-He wanted to be an officer, but knew he didn’t want to be an infantry officer
-Enlisted in the Air Force
-Received his draft notice for the Army a week later
(00:02:58) Basic Training
-Sent to San Antonio, Texas for basic training
-Most likely to Lackland Air Force Base
-Trained with mostly college graduates
-Mature enough to not need as much discipline training
-Biggest problem was learning how to march
-Took different tests
-Language tests focusing on German, Morse code tests, and typing tests
-Sent to fill out paperwork for top secret clearance
-Had no idea why he had been selected, or what he had been selected to do
(00:04:20) Code Training
-Completed basic training and was sent to a school at Sheppard Air Force Base, Texas
-No one knew why he was supposed to be there
-Three weeks later he was ordered to report to a nondescript room
-There were ten other men there
-They were asked if they had wives, fiancés, or girlfriends
-If you had a girlfriend you were ordered to break
up
-Told that they would be living in a motel off the base
-Also would be wearing civilian clothes
-After that he reported to a basement on the base protected by an armed guard
-Learning about top secret codes
-Completed that training after thirteen weeks
(00:07:03) Stationed at K.I. Sawyer Air Force Base
-Sent to the 410th Bomb Wing stationed at K.I. Sawyer Air Force Base, Michigan
�-It was a Strategic Air Command (SAC) base
-Had B-52 bombers and KC-130 refueling planes
-Arrived there in January 1966
-First two weeks were spent working in the crypto-vault
-Handling the codes for flights
-Got assigned to the airborne command post
-24/7 aircraft that controlled the aircraft in the air
-This was in the event that the Air Force bases were destroyed in a nuclear
attack
-While he was assigned to it they were controlling all of the B-52s over Vietnam
-For airborne command post missions they would fly from Nebraska to Guam
-Guam was the air control station with B-52 squadrons flying missions to
Vietnam
-Twelve hours on in the flight and twelve hours of
-If not working, then eating, or sleeping
-In charge of code systems on the plane
-Generally busy communicating with different squadrons
-After seven days they would fly back to Nebraska then he’d return to K.I. Sawyer
-Would stay at K.I. Sawyer for three weeks
-Chance to go down to Grand Rapids to visit his family
-Stayed there until May 1966 when he received orders for Europe
(00:11:02) Vietnam War
-Got a secret message every day about what was happening in Vietnam
-Kept up with which units were deployed and what operations were underway
-Had a pretty good idea of where the B-52s were going
-Knew the Ho Chi Minh Trail, Khe Sanh, and the A Shau Valley were
bombed
-B-52s carried 750 pound bombs
-Three bombers would drop 100+ bombs at once on a single area
-Had no idea how the war was going, or how it would wind up going
-Only knew if a “grid square” (1 square kilometer) was “clear”
(00:13:38) Training in West Germany
-In May 1966 he received orders for Lindsey Air Station, West Germany
-Headquarters or United States-Europe and thirty miles north of Frankfurt
-Had a four star general at the air station
-Commander of the air forces, forces in Europe, and a NATO commander
-There was no airfield, so it looked more like a college campus than a military base
-Had to learn German and French, European customs, NATO protocol, and
communications
-Four months of training in a windowless block house
-Daily schedule was as follows:
-8AM-11AM: Crypto-communications
-Lunch
-Afternoon: Practice with communications
-5PM-9PM: Language class
-Teacher taught English to Germans, and German to Americans
�-Trained six days a week
-First German language assignment was to go into town and buy something
-Had to learn about European customs
-Examples: Men go into the building first; sit in the back of the bar, not
the front
-Had a French-Canadian and a North Carolinian roommate
-Had to take a test and pass it at the end of training so he could get an assignment
(00:17:45) Central European Operations-Social Democratic Society
-He was assigned to Central European Operations
-Part of the Defense Intelligence Agency
-First assignment was to stop Army personnel from deserting to neutral European
countries
-Focused on the Social Democratic Society
-Became radical in universities
-Anti-Vietnam and wanted more women’s rights
-His first assignment was to infiltrate an SDS rally and collect intelligence on the group
-They subscribed to a Maoist ideology
-Wanted U.S. forces out of Germany
-They recruited Army personnel that were deserting to help them
-Met a girl that was trying to organize a route through Germany for deserting
soldiers
-He was ordered to start dating her
-Discovered that Finland and Norway were complicit in helping soldiers desert
-Men would be sent up there so that they could get jobs, or trade training
-A lot of men that were deserting were not doing it because of the Vietnam War
-Most weren’t being paid enough to live, or they had been slighted by the Army
-Most just wanted better jobs and better lives
-Girl that he was “dating” went into East Germany for protests
-Wound up in a hospital in East Germany
-He and another agent had to go into East Germany with Canadian
passports
-Once there they had to use Russian uniforms to get her out
-By the time they got her back to West Germany she had died
-Worked in conjunction with the Army to stop the desertion of personnel
-Worked with the Army’s Criminal Investigation Department
(00:25:39) Central European Operations-Tracking Uranium
-He was called up to help the United Nations
-Selected for that work along with his roommate from North Carolina
-Paid by the U.S. government, but could never say they were in the Air Force
-Sent to Vienna, Austria for the Atomic Energy Commission
-At the time, only five countries had nuclear weapons
-U.S., USSR, France, U.K., and China had nuclear weapons at the time
-Trying to establish a non-proliferation treaty
-This was in the spring of 1967
-Had to go to Salzburg, Austria during the negotiations with the five nuclear powers
-Had no idea who was processing uranium and building parts for nuclear weapons
�-Had to travel to Czechoslovakia, Hungary, and Poland
-Found a uranium enrichment facility near Odessa, Ukraine
-Tracked uranium shipments as they moved through Eastern Europe
-Snuck onto the enrichment facility’s property and marked it bike reflector tape
-Made it more visible for satellites
-From there had to track a ship that had left India and was bound for Romania
-Had to watch for the ship to come into port at Constanta
-It was like a vacation
-Played cards with the ship’s owner
-Found out the name of the ship and where it was going
-Didn’t know when it was leaving though
-Had orders to get that ship back to the United States
-Began working with the British Admiralty and the Israeli Mossad
-Mossad’s plan was to capture the ship and take it to Haifa, Israel
-Once the ship was captured Bill went to Haifa to rendezvous
-Material was unloaded and taken to Ramat David Air Force Base
-Loaded onto American planes bound for White Sands
-The rest of the material was given to Israel
-All of these actions together eventually led to the creation of the Non-Proliferation
Treaty
-Atomic Energy Commission eventually evolved into the Atomic Energy Agency
-Learned that fissile nuclear material was being sent to India from Russia
-After that assignment he returned to the U.S. for a short leave, then returned to Europe
(00:39:55) Central European Operations-Withdrawal from Wheelus Air Force Base
-In 1969 he was sent to Wheelus Air Force Base in Libya
-By now Muammar Gaddafi had seized power
-His job was to help get American and Israeli material out of the base
-He was placed on alert to help with the removal of material
-On Christmas Eve 1969 he received orders to go to Torrejon Air Force Base in Madrid,
Spain
-From Madrid flew to Wheelus Air Force Base
-Planes were loaded up with Christmas presents
-Turned out that they contained the U.S. codes
-Had to be removed without the Libyan government's knowledge
(00:42:56) Central European Operations-Prague Spring
-Czechoslovakian citizens revolted in 1968 in an attempt to liberalize
-As a result, the USSR and other Warsaw Pact countries invaded Czechoslovakia
-Bill was ordered to report for duty and began reading reports about the invasion
-Received orders to go to the U.S. embassy in Prague to collect the codes there
-Able to cross into Czechoslovakia with no problems and hitchhiked to Prague
-Saw Soviet aircraft flying patrols to keep foreign aircraft out
-Saw Soviet and other Warsaw Pact vehicles on the road to Prague
-Got to the embassy and packed the codes into paper bags then hid them under the cars
-Managed to get back to West Germany without incident
(00:46:57) Central European Operations-Jordanian Civil War
-Jordan's King Hussein was being pressured by the PLO's presence in Jordan
�-Decided that he wanted the PLO out of Jordan
-Fighting ensued between the Jordanian Army and the PLO in September
1970
-Had to evacuate American personnel from the embassy
-Went to Jordan using United Arab Airlines
-On the tarmac and there was fighting between the Jordan Army and the PLO
-He got hit in the foot
-Got back to Rome
-Some material had been left behind in Jordan that had to be recovered
-Worked with the Swiss embassy to get back into Jordan
-Once he had recovered the material he had orders to go to Israel
-Started crossing no man's land and got shot in the shoulder
-The next night he was able to cross into Israel and fly back to Germany
-After that assignment he applied for reassignment
-This was in 1983 or 1984
-Got out of doing field work after the Jordanian Civil War
(00:52:23) Yom Kippur War
-During the Yom Kippur War in 1973 Israel was just being monitored by the United
States
-U.S. decided to stay out unless the Soviet Union got involved
(00:53:39) Working for the Pentagon & Tactical Air Control Party Units
-Went to work for the Pentagon in the early 1980s on close air support planning
-Integrating that tactic for all branches of the military
-Getting the branches to coordinate for air strikes
-Working closely with tactical air control party (TACP) units
-Called ROMADs (Radio operator, maintenance, and driver)
-Had been used in the Vietnam War
-Worked with the Army to call in airstrikes
-Ex. during Grenada they dropped in with the 101st Airborne Division
-Using F-4 Phantoms and Spectre gunships
-Ex. during the invasion of Panama called in strikes on Noriega's
command posts
-Call in where the Army is so that friendly fire is kept at a minimum
-Using artillery, helicopter, and gunships to get firepower on a target
-Had to be at least a senior airman or corporal and go through survival training
-Used during the Gulf War, Kosovo, the War in Afghanistan and the Iraq War
-Has now evolved to be the Joint Terminal Attack Controllers (JTACs)
-Operate in one man, or two man, teams in the field
-Coordinating targets with the various branches of the military
-Allowing for the Air Force to get intelligence for accuracy
-Worked with Canadians, Germans, and other NATO air forces for exercises
-He was present for Cold War training exercises near the Fulda Gap
-During the Gulf War sent TACPs to Arab forces in the coalition
-Instructing them on close air support
-Started out working with the TACPs as a technical sergeant
�-By the time that he was done with them he was a first sergeant in charge of
operations
-Coordinating information in the Pentagon from all over the world
-Interesting work, but confusing work
-Had to work with teams from all over the world for exercises
-Dealt with a high drop out rate
-Learned that the humble applicants were the best
-Applicants with big egos weren't good
(01:13:00) Changes in the Air Force
-Witnessed the move from basic, mechanical equipment to complex, digital systems
-Also saw the advances in military aircraft
-Ex. The F-35J Lightning essentially flies itself
-Ex. Drones being used more widely
-Had some women working in Europe while he was stationed there
-Only worked with messages that had been garbled
-There were two civilian women that did travel arrangements and accounting
-Only had four women working for the Air Force when he was in Europe
-Saw a steady increase of women in the Air Force
-Only in the late 1980s did he see prominent female participation
-Saw more women taking on complex, non-combat roles
(01:19:57) Kent County Honor Guard
-Retired from the Air Force in late 2003
-Has worked with the Kent County Honor Guard since he retired
-Helping with funerals for veterans from World War Two and the Korean War
-Averaging about twenty funerals a month
-Most of them are from WWII or the Korean War
-Helps get veterans medals they rightly deserve
-Getting veterans combat pay that they never received
-Due to covert missions that never "happened" and reorganization of units
-Getting families closure for family members that were killed in action and they never
knew how
-Organizing flyovers for veterans
-Organized a B-52 fly over for an Air Force colonel's funeral in Grand Rapids
-Organized an F-16 fly over for President Ford's funeral in Grand Rapids
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_SchaeferW1662V
Title
A name given to the resource
Schaefer, William "Bill" (Interview outline and video), 2014
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-08-07
Description
An account of the resource
Bill Schaefer was born in Murfreesboro, Tennessee in 1943. He grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan and graduated from Western Michigan University in 1965. He enlisted in the Air Force and was sent to San Antonio, Texas for basic training. He was selected for top secret code work and was trained at Sheppard Air Force Base, Texas. With that training complete he was assigned to the 410th Bomb Wing stationed at K.I. Sawyer Air Force Base, Michigan and got picked to serve aboard the airborne command post, flying missions out of Guam and directing B-52 bombing raids over North Vietnam. In May 1966 he was sent to Lindsey Air Station, West Germany and was assigned to Central European Operations, part of the Defense Intelligence Agency. During his time with them he worked to stop the desertion of soldiers, tracked uranium shipments in the Eastern Bloc, and oversaw the retrieval of codes from the U.S. embassy in Czechoslovakia (Prague Spring), Wheelus Air Force (Gaddafi seizure of Libya), and the U.S. embassy in Jordan (Jordanian Civil War). In the early 1980s he was assigned to the Pentagon to work with Tactical Air Control Party units and retired from that in 2003. He is now an active member of the Kent County Honor Guard aiding veterans and veterans' families.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Schaefer, William
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1988--Personal narratives, American
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Moving Image
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/37a5177e6598ac978c311c2e936b33b0.mp4
2bf10666a5db77ee5c54fbf20e1bc848
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2bb8a5d7ba994f5f1ebe5bc4b4c7eab6.pdf
9a2d9095ca5809456f616ad14cdda1ec
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Willie Saddler
(59:20)
Background information (00:10)
He was born January 11th 1928 in Columbus, Georgia. (00:17)
He relocated to Chicago, Illinois when he was 3 years old in 1931 (00:28)
His father worked for the police force as a plainclothes detective. (1:05)
His father was not very well educated for his position. (1:36)
They did not move very much, but after entering into high school his family moved
to different areas due to their uncle’s employment as a janitor. (2:23)
He attended high school at Tilden Tech. in Chicago from approx. 1942-1944 (3:20)
He graduated from Union high school in 1945. (3:35)
He liked going to school but he didn’t like being harassed by white children. (4:01)
The school he attended was integrated. (4:36)
During school everyone seemed to get along. (4:44)
He knew some information about the war from reading the paper and his job as a
paper boy. (5:54)
In 1945 he enlisted in the military because he thought the military would advance
his education and better himself. (7:40)
He worked at a post office in Chicago after high school for a short period. (9:21)
Basic training (10:00)
He enlisted with several of his friends who lived in his neighborhood (10:00)
He was sent down to Shepherd Field Army Air Base in Wichita Falls, Texas by train
(10:20)
When he took the troop train from Fort Sheridan, Illinois, the men of different colors
were mixed in the same cars. (10:55)
On the train there were several soldiers playing craps. (12:00)
Even when going through the South the soldiers were not segregated. (12:27)
Once off the train at Shepherd Field they were placed in a field and assigned to
platoons and barracks. (12:40)
The barracks were not segregated. (12:18)
He did experience discrimination from white soldiers throughout his military
career. (14:15)
Basic involved weapons training with multiple firearms including the M1 Carbine.
He also experienced an excessive amount of marching. (14:58)
Basic training suppressed individualism from other men. (16:30)
�
He feels that the drill sergeants were fair (given that they were drill sergeants.)
(16:40)
He stayed at Shepherd Field for approx 3-4 weeks. (1945) (17:58)
Next he was sent to Smokey Hill Army Base. (18:15)
Here he worked on packing parachutes. (18:33)
In order to be a parachute packer he was required to jump out of a plane himself
with a parachute he packed to instill the importance of doing quality work.
This was his first time in an airplane. He thought it was very noisy and it frightened
him. (19:30)
His unit had a mix of white and black soldiers. (20:10)
Next he was placed in Smokey Hill Army Air Base (Kansas.) (21:39)
At Smokey Hill he received shots to prepare him for the environments he would be
facing. He also had the opportunity to sign up for particular positions. (22:30)
He was sent to Europe as a replacement in other units. (24:10)
He took a plane from Smokey Hill Air Base to Europe were he would be stationed in
Germany. (26:08)
Service in Germany (27:00)
Once there, he was placed on assignment to clean up towns that were bombed or
attack and recover bodies. (27:08)
Graves that he saw to fit the amount of dead bodies were very large “as big as a
vacant lot.” (28:06)
This experience was very difficult and very different; however he did the task
without argument as it was a soldier’s responsibility to follow orders. (28:20)
Most of the men he worked with were American soldiers. (28:55)
He did visit the stockades. (29:19)
He mostly dealt with military personnel. Displaced persons were dealt with by the
nation's police. (29:45)
While here he did see many civilians and they interacted with them to get a drink or
a cigarette. (30:20)
There were some men who took advantage of this hospitality and indulged
themselves in the women and drink.(31:06)
His assignment required him to move 2-3 times a day however they always
returned to the same base. There they stayed in barracks. (32:14)
The barracks was a U.S. barracks and to him it appeared fairly new. (33:10)
After serving in Germany he was sent down to Italy where he preformed the exact
same task of cleaning up and body recovery. (33:55)
Another platoon was in charge of looking for unexploded bombs, mines ext. (34:36)
While in Italy he did have the chance to explore the countryside. The men in
particular wanted to find good food. (35:15)
Civilians were constantly trying to get food and cigarettes from him and others from
his unit. (35:55)
�
His Unit consisted of approx. 100 men. The unit was kept together for the entirety of
his time in Europe. (approx. 3 months) (37:27)
After finishing his service in Europe he took a plane back to Smokey Hill Army Air
Base where he received his discharge. (37:40)]
Service at Smokey Hill Army Air Base (37:27)
While at Smokey Hill he was able to go into town (Salina, Kansas) but the primary
mode of transportation was an unreliable buss system. (38:24)
While in town men would visit the USO as well as go to church. (39:20)
Of the men he served with some had been drafted and others had enlisted. (40:03)
He had signed up for 3 years of service however only served a little less than 2
years. He did this by giving up some of his pay that he would have received if the full
3 year service was completed. (39:30)
He exited the military in November of 1946. (39:40)
Once back in Chicago he joined the Army reserve. Here he fought brush fires.
(39:59)
Riot at Shepherd Field Army Air Base (40:00)
While he was at Shepherd Field Army Air Base there was a race riot.(41:35)
The riot was not on his portion of the base. (41:43)
The riot took place between white and black service members. (41:55)
In response to the riot, he and his unit were told to stay in their barracks and not to
come out until the base gave the all clear.(42:35)
A commander (a white man) spoke after the riot and stated that the men needed to
work together and that they should not be fighting against each other if they wanted
to be successful. (43:12)
He respected this because he believed the commander was speaking honestly.
(44:05)
He believed that this Commander was treating all members equally in spite of their
race. (44:28)
Post Military Life (45:00)
He left the military because he did not like the regimentation of the armed forces.
(46:29)
He believed the military taught him more common sense ad how to get along with
individuals even when he don’t like them (47:10)
After leaving the service he went home to Chicago and got married 3 years later
(approx. 1949)(48:03)
�
Once he arrived home he served as a security guard. (48:15)
He was required to have a car for this position. He was paid to protect the owner of
a food store. (49:10)
He stayed with this position until his grandfather gave him the impression that he
was capable of having a higher paying job. (50:20)
At the age of 29 he joined the police force. (1957) (50:58)
He stayed on the Chicago Police force for approx 30 years. (1987) (51:11)
He was in the police force when strong efforts were imposed to combat racial
discrimination. (51:30)
He served on the police force in 1968 during race riots. (53:19)
He currently lives in Grand Rapids, Michigan due to his union with his second wife.
(55:12)
Because he left his home in Georgia at such a young age he was unable to recall very
much of what living there was like. (56:40)
He was impressed with the amount of accommodations (such as electricity and
plumbing) that existed in the north. (57:40)
He got his second wife pregnant while still married to his first. His second wife had
already had 2 kids. (58:00)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_SaddlerW1175V
Title
A name given to the resource
Saddler, Willie (Interview outline and video), 2011
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2011-08-17
Description
An account of the resource
Willie Saddler is an African American veteran who grew up in Chicago, Illinois. He enlisted in the Army Air Corps at the end of World War II where he helped clean up and retrieve casualties from towns in Germany and Italy that were attacked during the war. He also describes early efforts at racial integration in the Air Corps.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Saddler, Willie
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Moving Image
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4a6a29d0c9ea87c1258c2f666beadf0a.m4v
271947b8fbfbc14b4647c3004c4eb029
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e18898f5a7ba2373a548f84bbfa3f869.pdf
3cfe443e19eca43631bb4a6638941ce1
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
Mel Bajema
Vietnam War
Interview length: 1 hour 5 minutes 8 seconds; Tape Length: 1 hour 35 minutes 15 seconds
(00:00:31) Early Life
-Born in High Wycombe, England on March 12, 1946
-His father was stationed in England with the U.S. military and his mother was a war
bride
-When he was a toddler his parents moved to the United States
-His father had been reassigned to Chanute, Illinois
-His mother and he (Mel) went and lived with his father's parents in Iowa
-His grandfather didn't approve of the marriage
-He was a "fire and brimstone" preacher that didn't treat his mother well
-His mother told his father that if they couldn't come to Illinois she would leave
-He (Mel) and his mother joined his father at Chanute Air Field, Illinois
-His father was in the Army Air Corps (which became the Air Force)
-Served with the Air Force for eight years
-After his father completed his service the family moved to Michigan
-His father wanted to become a preacher, so he went to Calvin College, Grand Rapids
-Eventually had to leave due to financial reasons
-His father became a grocery store manager
-He (Mel) graduated from high school in June 1964
-Throughout high school he had worked at the grocery store for his father
-He also worked there briefly after he graduated from high school
(00:03:31) Enlisting in the Air Force
-He wanted to form a sense of identity and felt the military was the best option for that
-The branch that he decided on was the Air Force
-Influenced because of his father's service and because he felt the Air Force was the elite
-Before reporting for basic training he received aptitude testing
-Attempt by the Air Force to decide which position would be best for the recruits
-The first stop was at Fort Custer, Michigan for processing and sorting
-At this time it was June 1964
(00:04:53) Basic Training
-He was sent to Lackland Air Force Base, Texas for his basic training
-There were parts of basic training that were largely unpleasant
-The TIs (technical instructors) were uncaring and at times unnecessarily demanding
-He heard a rumor that one recruit was forced to run until he died of exhaustion
-There was a huge focus on psychologically breaking down recruits
-This was accomplished by forcing recruits to obsessively clean their quarters
-There was one time the TIs made a mess of the barracks
-The recruits were forced to clean the barracks in a limited amount of time
-He was in good physical shape upon entering the Air Force
-But still had to work up to a point that was acceptable for the Air Force
�-The primary, overall focus during basic training was discipline and following orders
-He spent six weeks training at Lackland
-For him it was pretty easy to adjust to military living
-Other men weren't able to adjust and were reassigned, or sent home
(00:09:31) Technical School
-He spent eight weeks in technical school
-He was sent to a technical school in Amarillo, Texas
-His specialization in the Air Force was to work in supply
-The technical school training consisted mostly of classroom work
-Instructors were better than in basic training, but still demanding
-He finished technical school in early 1965
-He had been allowed to go home for Christmas 1964 though
(00:10:49) Assignment to Selma, Alabama
-He was stationed at Craig Air Force Base near Selma, Alabama
-His position was to work with supplies out of a Quonset hut
-He was part of Air Training Command
-This meant he was in a support role for the officers training to be pilots
-His job involved tracking where parts and supplies were on the base
-He stayed at Craig until September 1967
-There was still animosity towards Northerners at the time
-For the sake of peace he tried to adjust to, and insert himself into, the community
-He heard about the Civil Rights Movement, but wasn't tremendously aware of the struggle
-He saw how African Americans were treated by Southerners
-He had a part time job pumping gas in Selma and saw black customers turned away
-This was completely foreign to him coming from the North and not being racist
-At Craig when the Edmund Pettus Bridge Incident happened
-The National Guard was called in
-They had to allow the National Guardsmen to stay on their base
-While this was going on they were not allowed to leave the base
-Aside from the Civil Rights struggle the assignment to Selma was routine and boring
-Get up, eat breakfast, go to work, go to barracks, relax and repeat every day
-He had wanted to take college courses, but only got around to taking one
(00:17:20) Volunteering for Vietnam
-After getting sick of being in Selma he expressed his frustration with his assignment
-He wanted to travel with the hope of going to Europe
-If he reenlisted he would get to go to Europe, which didn't appeal to him
-He had only one year left, so he was offered a deployment to Southeast Asia
-He took that offer
-Two weeks later he received a letter telling him that he was being sent to Vietnam
(00:18:20) Deployment to Vietnam
-He visited home briefly before leaving for Vietnam
-Travelled by air to San Francisco, then took a bus down to Los Angeles
-In Los Angeles he boarded a chartered commercial plane bound for Vietnam
-Stopped for gas along the way, but never long enough to get off the plane
-They eventually landed in Tan Son Nhut Air Base in Saigon, South Vietnam
-First impression was being scared
�-He had blonde hair which drew attention from the local girls
-Prostitutes would solicit him too which shocked and intimidated him
-They landed during the day
-Nothing eventful was happening when they landed
-He was placed in a barracks on base until he left for Da Nang
(00:20:53) Stationed at Da Nang
-He took a cargo plane up to Da Nang
-It was a tense plane ride
-The pilot didn't know how to handle the C-130, so the 2nd Lieutenant on board took
over
-When he arrived in Da Nang he was assigned to a quarters in "Tent City"
-He met some men that he had known in Selma
-The first three months were calm
-It almost felt like being on a base in the United States
-Over time they began to receive minor incoming fire at night
-The Viet Cong's goal was to keep the U.S. troops from getting sleep and to demoralize
them
-It was nothing compared to what would happen in the Tet Offensive though
-His daily routine was similar to the one that he had in Selma
-Working in supply, but in a slightly different capacity
-In a way it felt like a day job just with military etiquette
-He worked in supply for six months
-Didn't have to pull bunker duty, guard duty, or any duty like those
(00:25:33) Enemy Presence and Relations with Civilians in Da Nang
-He felt safe until he realized that they were totally surrounded by Viet Cong
-Vietnamese civilians were employed on the base to do menial tasks
-The Viet Cong began to kill civilians sympathetic towards the Americans
-He was able to visit the city of Da Nang before it became too dangerous to leave base
-No one was allowed to have their M-16 rifle on hand
-Had them kept in a locked weapons locker
-Seemed asinine to him because it left them completely vulnerable
-Just before the Tet Offensive began the mortar attacks became more frequent
-He would watch as American helicopters attacked Viet Cong mortar crews near Da Nang
-For a long time it didn't even seem like there was a war being fought
-It was something occurring near them, but not involving them
(00:30:33) The Tet Offensive
-Working in the supply hut when the Tet Offensive began
-He heard explosions outside and took cover under his desk
-The explosions were so close, and so powerful, that the concussion buckled the floor
-After he left the hut he saw the extent of the damage and heard more about it too
-Everything was orange (burning)
-To him it looked like what the stereotypical idea of hell looked like
-A squadron and a half of jets had been lost to the attack (27-36 jets roughly)
-He wasn't aware of any Vietnamese ground troops having penetrated the perimeter
-The rocket attack only happened once
-He feels that the goal of the Vietnamese had been to disrupt U.S. air presence
�(00:34:46) Volunteering for Air Traffic Coordinator
-After six months of being a supply clerk a call for a volunteer for air traffic coordinator came
-The job involved being on the flight line helping oversee the handling of cargo on aircraft
-He decided it would be more interesting than being a clerk, so he volunteered
-He was put on a day shift, a mid-shift, and a graveyard shift, then got three days off
-He would unload and load dead soldiers and wounded soldiers
-His job also involved signaling pilots and telling them where to park their aircraft
-It was a more interesting job, but more dangerous as well
-The flight line took small arms fire pretty consistently
-One time a sniper took a shot at him and he felt the bullet go past his head
-It was common for aircraft to take fire as they landed, or took off
-They didn't suffer any mortar attacks on the flight line
-At the time Da Nang's U S military population was 2/3 Marines and 1/3 Air Force
-He worked exclusively with the Air Force, and never the Marines
(00:39:11) Downtime in Da Nang
-For the most part he would spend downtime sleeping and eating
-He got a reel-reel recorder through a friend that took an R&R in Japan
-Used it to record music on the radio at the USO Club
-Martha Ray came in as part of the USO to perform for the troops
-There was a base theatre that showed movies
(00:40:38) Living Conditions, Morale, Race Relations, and Drugs
-As the year went on he ran into more draftees
-Sometime during the year he was moved from "Tent City" to an actual barracks
-Felt that the tents were actually safer than a large structure that drew attention
-He knew one soldier who would consistently leave base to fraternize with Vietnamese girls
-This eventually led to him getting a dishonorable discharge
-He always strove to do his job well because at the time he believed in the cause
-Most soldiers that he worked with tried to do their jobs well
-He wasn't aware of drug use until Marines started coming back from the field
-Marines were using cocaine
-Indoctrination and coke made the Marines act like they were invincible
-He knew one Marine who had that attitude and was dead two weeks later
-He would ship out seventeen dead soldiers each shift
-Feels that compared to previous wars casualties were light
-Working on the flight line made him painfully aware of the toll of the war
-He never heard of Air Force service members using drugs
-There were more whites than blacks, and few Hispanics
-Everyone got along fairly well though
-At Da Nang he didn't hear about the MLK assassination
-News outlets provided by the military only allowed for a limited scope of information
-Thus that event didn't come up in the "Stars & Stripes"
-Communicated with his family through letters
-When he was still in "Tent City" someone was able to get hold of a Christmas Tree
-He received a Christmas care package in March 1968
-The brownies were moldy, but they all ate them anyway
-They had a PX (general store) on base which largely negated the need for care packages
�-On Fridays he would always try to treat himself to steak and eggs
-If you wanted to get drunk you just had to go to the NCO Club and order a few drinks
-The heat exacerbated the effects of the alcohol
-There were no apparent alcoholics in Da Nang
(00:50:14) Interactions with Officers
-He didn't have any officer watching over him until he became a traffic coordinator
-Even when he was on the flight line he wasn't closely supervised
(00:51:10) Going Home
-When he was ready to go back home an officer pulled him aside and gave him some advice
-"Forget that you were here, don’t volunteer to talk about your experiences”
-At the time the advice seemed strange, but as time went on he understood
-He learned that the war had been futile
-He wasn't aware of the anti-war protests going on in America
-Heard something about 'Make love, not war' but that was it
-He kept track of when he was going home by using a short time calendar
-He didn't know exactly when he was going home, just one day it happened
-There was no acclimation process or course on how to adjust to going home
-From Da Nang he flew down to Tan Son Nhut Air Base in Saigon
-He heard men were dying from mortar attacks in Saigon
-Fortunately for him, when he arrived Saigon was quiet
-When he came home he wasn't harassed by protesters
-He landed in Los Angeles, California then he returned to Grand Rapids, Michigan
(00:56:12) Reassignment to Pensacola, Florida
-He received new orders to go to Eglin Air Force Base in Pensacola, Florida
-He went down to Florida with a bitter and resentful attitude
-He technically had 110 days of his enlistment left
-Felt that his year in Vietnam should have satisfied the rest of his enlistment
-Because of his bitterness he would sleep in and be generally uncooperative
-He got called into the sergeant's office and was yelled at, but not punished
-He continued doing supply work, but didn't work as hard as he had at Selma, or Da Nang
(00:57:39) Life after the War
-After the Air Force he didn't have the direction that he thought that he would have
-His mother suggested that he go to Post Office for a job
-He took the test and was hired on to be a mailman
-Wound up staying with the Post Office for his career and retired from it
-His four years in the Air Force was added onto his thirty two years in the Post Office
-He was a Federal employee for thirty six years
-He feels that the Post Office was run very similarly to the Vietnam War
-Inept managers making bad decisions
-Leadership that had no foresight (in relation to the coming of email in the 1990s)
(01:00:38) Reflections on Service
-Shortly after he came home a Marine from his church was killed in Vietnam
-His mother insisted that he wear his uniform to church
-After that Marine was killed it became hard for him to face that family in his uniform
-He wondered why he lived and the Marine died
-When he returned home he talked openly about his experiences in Vietnam
�-Mostly talked to the kids in the youth group at Coopersville Christian Reformed Church
-Feels that because of his experiences and their interest he was more open to talk
-Feels that a lot of men came home traumatized and there was nothing to help them readjust
-Understood why a lot of men wound up committing suicide, or in mental hospitals
-Feels that because of his experiences he was able to readjust faster and easier
-Over the years ran into men that were reluctant to talk, and he understands why
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_BajemaM1654V
Title
A name given to the resource
Bajema, Melvin (Interview outline and video), 2014
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-06-26
Description
An account of the resource
Mel Bajema was born in England in 1946. His father was in the Army Air Corps (later the Air Force once it became its own branch) and his mother was an English "war-bride." His family soon moved to the US and settled in Grand Rapids, Michigan. After high school, Mel enlisted in the Air Force, and served between 1964 and 1968. He trained in supply, and served between 1965 and 1967 at Craig Air Force Base near Selma, Alabama, and then requested assignment to Southeast Asia. He went to South Vietnam and was based at Da Nang, where he eventually switched from supply to ground control work. While there, he witnessed the attack on the base during the Tet Offensive.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Bajema, Melvin
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Moving Image
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/x-m4v
application/pdf
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5ed059593e6593c3fec5e20e931e7e0f.m4v
f748134c0f462287ccb52e1925c10c94
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e9988e39f025d6fe67bd11b17488b840.pdf
2e7e51e81140e5b886f42cb0efed04a6
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
Rick Sturim
Cold War-Vietnam War Era
1 hour 3 minutes 32 seconds
(00:00:40) Early Life
-Born in Brooklyn, New York on October 21, 1942
-Lived in Brooklyn until he was about five, or six years old
-Family moved to Hawthorne, New Jersey
-Lived there for four years
-Moved to Fair Lawn, New Jersey
-Mother and father were from Hell's Kitchen in New York City
-Father served in the Navy during World War II
-Stationed at Naval Station Norfolk, Virginia
-Father worked in printing & silk, ran a hobby shop, and worked for Curtiss-Wright until retirement
-Graduated from high school in 1960
(00:03:05) College & Air Force Reserve Officers' Training Corps Pt. 1
-Went to Newark College of Engineering (now called the New Jersey Institute of Technology)
-Studied there for four years
-Majored in mechanical engineering
-Joined the Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC)
-In his junior year of college he selected mechanical engineering as his main focus
-Only able to join the Air Force ROTC because it was the only ROTC offered at the college
-Had always been interested in automobiles and mechanical devices
-Didn't pay a lot of attention to the Cold War during college
-Went to Otis Air Force Base (now Otis Air National Guard Base), Massachusetts for summer training
-Met President Kennedy
-Saw how much the presidency had aged him
-Shortly after that visit, President Kennedy was assassinated
-Commissioned as a 2nd lieutenant and received his orders in 1964
-Originally supposed to receive training as a weatherman
-He was captain of the ROTC rifle and the college rifle team
-Part of a local fraternity
(00:06:23) Jewish Heritage & Population
-Never experienced any religious or ethnic discrimination due to being Jewish
-Family name was originally Sturimski, but was changed to Sturim at Ellis Island
-Parents had grown up in a Jewish and European community in the United States
-There was a sizable Jewish population in Fair Lawn, New Jersey
(00:08:14) Air Force Reserve Officers' Training Corps Pt. 2
-Not a lot of traditional military training in the ROTC
-Taught protocol in the Air Force
-Didn't do a lot of marching
-Had to keep your uniform clean and presentable
-Not a lot of preparation for military life
(00:08:53) Training at Chanute Air Force Base
-Reported to Chanute Air Force Base, Illinois in December 1964
-Placed in an older barracks
�-Stopped at the Officers' Club to establish his bearings
-Tried to order a beer available on the East Coast, and the bartender had no idea what it was
-The next day he and the other officers met at the Officers' Club to go to classes
-Two sessions of classes
-Started in the early morning and got done at noon
-Second session was from 1 p.m. to 6 p.m.
-Received training as an Aircraft Maintenance Officer
-Repair and maintenance training
-Learned how to remove the engines
-Flew a Lockheed T-33 and a Lockheed Constellation with a trainer
-Had not signed up to be a pilot
-Mother didn't want him to fly out of concern for his safety
-Trained for seven months at Chanute Air Force Base
-Led marches during Pass-in-Review (marching past an officer for inspection)
-Did it during the warmer weather
-Led the enlisted men during the Pass-in-Review
(00:13:42) Getting Married
-Got married to Harriet (Sturim) in the last six weeks of training at Chanute Air Force Base
-Note: Based on Harriet's interview they got married on June 12, 1965
-Married for 50 years as of the interview
-Met at a Jewish youth group as adolescents
-Went to the same middle school and high school
-Separate social circles
-Attended separate colleges
-Met up again in Fair Lawn, New Jersey between his junior and senior year of college
-Started dating after that
(00:15:58) Assignment to Chanute Air Force Base & Ramey Air Force Base
-Original orders to become a meteorologist changed which led to training at Chanute Air Force Base
-Got a month off after completing training at Chanute Air Force Base
-Had honeymoon with Harriet while he waited for his new orders
-Flew to Puerto Rico on August 13, 1965
-Landed at San Juan
-Flew in his Air Force dress uniform
-Bused from San Juan to Ramey Air Force Base
-Bus broke down due to battery problems
-Driver called for help and Puerto Rican men came out of shacks to push the bus
-Pushed it until the battery restarted
-Changed his perception of Puerto Ricans
(00:18:46) Anti-War/Anti-Military Protests Pt. 1
-Encountered anti-war/anti-military sentiments while in college
-Wore his ROTC uniform around college and encountered harassment
(00:20:30) Vietnam War Pt. 1
-Not aware of the escalation of the conflict in Vietnam in the early 1960s
-Didn't pay attention to the Vietnam War while at Chanute Air Force Base
(00:21:00) Stationed at Ramey Air Force Base Pt. 1
-Placed in the Visiting Officers' Quarters at Ramey Air Force Base
-Squadron commander invited him and Harriet to go to their house
-Duplex house and ready for them to move in when they arrived
-Two bedrooms, a living room, a dining room, and a kitchen
�-Had an outdoor laundry room
-Stationed in Puerto Rico for three years
-Base needed aircraft maintenance officers
-Started out as the flight-line maintenance officer
-Went from plane to plan to see if work needed to be done on them
-Had a wide variety of aircraft
-16 B-52Gs (nuclear loaded bombers)
-16 KC-135s (tankers)
-2 U-3As (communications aircraft)
-2 C-54s (transport aircraft; flown during the Berlin Airlift relief mission)
-Also had C-45 CAPs (utility aircraft)
-Oversaw maintenance of the base aircraft
-Insured repairs were done if necessary
-Signed-off on forms allowing for flight
-Worked with good men
-Many of them veterans of WWII
-He was in the Organizational Maintenance Squadron
-Coordinated maintenance with other maintenance squadrons
-Had three markings to designate aircraft flight readiness
-Red / meant it needed repair, red x meant it was unsafe for flight, – meant it was safe to fly
-Up to him if an aircraft was safe to fly
(00:26:40) Non-commissioned Officers & Commissioned Officers at Ramey Air Force Base Pt. 1
-One man flew in the China-Burma-India Theater in WWII
-One man flew in a B-17 bomber as a gunner and shot down a German Me-109 fighter plane
-One man flew a P-51 fighter plane during the war
-Rick was a young, new officer and had the least experience
-Worked with senior sergeants who had years of experience
-Learned about aircraft through them
-Had one senior master sergeant that made that rank before Rick was born
-Had served nine months during World War II
-Had to have respect for his non-commissioned officers
-Officers that didn't respect the NCOs didn't do well as officers
-Had officers that he reported to
-His superior, squadron commander, and administrative officer
-Worked with two other flight-line maintenance officers
(00:30:28) Stationed at Ramey Air Force Base Pt. 2
-Had six bombers, and six tankers on alert at all times
-Outfitted for electronic warfare and carried nuclear weapons
-Rest of the bombers flew training missions every third day
-Had to provide status for every aircraft
(00:31:45) Non-commissioned Officers & Commissioned Officers at Ramey Air Force Base Pt. 2
-Worked closely with enlisted men a lot of the time because they did a lot of the work
-Had to respect and cooperate with the enlisted men
-Had a work relationship similar to a civilian workplace
-Listened to the non-commissioned officers for advice
-Lower in rank, but they had more experience
-Went from the rank of 2nd lieutenant, to 1st lieutenant, to captain while in Puerto Rico
-Normal for a junior officer to be stationed at a base for three years
-Chance for a new officer to gain experience
�(00:33:58) Cold War Pt. 1
-Had alerts
-Bomber and tanker crews went to their aircraft and turned on the engines
-Sometimes taxied onto the runway
-Had to be ready at all times
-He was part of the Mobility Team
-In the event of nuclear war the B-52s took off first, followed by the KC-135 tankers
-Mobility Team flew to a civilian airbase to wait for a tanker with maintenance equipment
-Flew them to a foreign country's airport
-Repair and refuel B-52s after a bombing run to get back to the U.S.
-B-52Gs did flights from Puerto Rico to the Mediterranean Sea and flew around that area
-Refueled twice during the flight
-Flight took 27 hours
-Two B-52s flew at a time and were armed with nuclear weapons
-In case one dropped out, another B-52 could join the first
(00:37:15) Aircraft at Ramey Air Force Base
-Refueled the SR-71 Blackbird and U-2 spy planes
-Refueled B-25s from Venezuela
-Serviced National Guard F-84s, F-86s, Canberra bombers, and F-104s
-Puerto Rican pilots trained with the F-104s
-Did training missions “attacking” the B-52s
-A few of the pilots crashed their F-104s in the ocean
-Difficult aircraft to handle
(00:38:22) Dominican Republic Revolution
-A pilot from the Dominican Republic flew his P-51 to Puerto Rico to seek asylum
-There was civil unrest and revolution in 1965 and 1966
-Note: U.S. Army's 82nd Airborne Division was eventually deployed to the country
-Relatively little activity at Ramey Air Force base during the revolution
-Wouldn't have used nuclear weapons in that situation, but they were placed on alert
(00:39:56) Cold War Pt. 2
-U-2 spy planes flew out of Ramey Air Force Base
-Conducting “high altitude weather monitoring”
-Coincidentally, the spy planes always flew over Cuba
(00:40:14) B-52 Crash
-Remembers a B-52 crashing off the coast of Puerto Rico
-Three, out of seven, crewmen survived
-He was placed on the accident investigation team
-Learned about the details of the crash later in life
-Life raft inflated and pushed the copilot into the plane's controls
-At 1,500 feet there was no chance to recover
(00:42:54) Vietnam War Pt. 1
-Vietnam War escalated during his time at Ramey Air Force Base
-Supported the war with KC-135 tankers and sent over B-52 bomber crew
-Talked with the bomber crews after they returned from missions in Vietnam
(00:44:00) Stationed at Kincheloe Air Force Base
-Sent to Kincheloe Air Force Base in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan
-Would've been sent to Vietnam if he stayed in the Air Force
-Didn't go to Vietnam because the B-52Gs were nuclear bombers, not conventional bombers
-In August 1968 he and Harriet moved to Kincheloe Air Force Base
�-Maintenance supervisor at Kincheloe Air Force Base
-Had five officers and 177 enlisted men in his command
-Sought out the non-commissioned officers and asked for their advice
-Had cherry-pickers with heaters to de-ice the aircraft during the winter
-Worked with WWII and Korean War veterans
-Shared his office with one non-commissioned officer
-During the Christmas of 1968 the base got hit with heavy snow
-Had to move the aircraft to one side of the runway, clear it, then move it back
-That non-commissioned officer helped him with that job
-Had mutual respect for each other
(00:48:23) Morale of the Men
-Had 22 year old crew chiefs working on the KC-135s and B-52s in Puerto Rico
-Took responsibility for aircraft and took care of their planes on their time-off
-Took pride in their work
-Enlisted men worked well
-Had practical skills and knowledge from civilian life prior to Air Force service
-Technical sergeants and higher-ranking sergeants effectively ran things at air bases
(00:50:00) Aero-Club
-Part the Aero-Club in Puerto Rico as a maintenance officer
-Got his private pilot's license
-Had Puerto Rican nationals working on the civilian aircraft in the Aero-Club
(00:50:43) Operational Readiness Inspections
-Had Operational Readiness Inspections (ORIs) at random while at Ramey Air Force Base
-Mobility Team had its equipment checked
-Made sure the planes were ready to fly missions
-Ramey Air Force Base passed its ORI with flying colors
-Celebrated with the non-commissioned officers and enlisted men
-Proud of them at the time, and is still proud of them
(00:53:10) Non-commissioned Officers Pt. 3 & Other Airmen
-Enlisted men had chosen Air Force because they felt it was the best branch
-Worked with Thomas Ferebee
-Bombardier on the Enola Gay when it dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima
(00:54:00) Son's Air Force Service
-One of his sons served in the Air Force
-Got a regular commission with the ROTC at Northwestern University
-Had to be in top 10% of class to get a regular commission as opposed to reserve commission
-Served 25 years in the Air Force
-Worked with NATO
-Served at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida
-Helped with the SEEK EAGLE Program
-Certifying weapons, suspension equipment, tanks, and pods on aircraft
(00:54:43) Vietnam War Pt. 2
-In 1968 the war turned political as opposed to military
-Placed limits on military movement and combat in Vietnam
-Discussed the war while at Kincheloe Air Force Base
-Men just wanted the military to be able to do its job in the war without restraint
(00:56:03) Race in the Air Force
-Had one black, chief master sergeant in his squadron
-He was a nice man, but had a little problem passing physical tests
�-Didn't see any racial tension, specifically
-Some issues existed with the Puerto Rican servicemen due to a language barrier
-Some of the enlisted Puerto Rican servicemen lacked dedication
(00:58:07) End of Service
-Oldest son, first child, was born in Puerto Rico in 1967 at the base hospital at Ramey Air Force Base
-Having a child, and more children, influenced his decision to get out of the Air Force
-He was a non-rated officer which meant he didn't have wings which means he couldn't fly
-Couldn't take the squadron commander's position
-Vietnam War was winding down which meant less work for the military
-In August 1969 he was released from active duty
(00:59:17) Life after Service
-Moved to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
-Had a job with Continental Can while in college
-Got his job back with them and worked as a project engineer
-Lived there for four years
-Moved to Bradford, Pennsylvania and worked for Corning Glass
-Moved to New Jersey and worked for Crescent Wire & Cable
-Moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan
-Got a job with Walter Hagen Golf Gear
-Got a job at Cascade Engineering
-Got a job with the Domtar Mine (gypsum mining company)
-Started an auto-repair business named Steve's Antique Auto Repair
-Named after his middle son
-Started off as a hobby and turned into a business
-Works on cars made in 1972 or older
(01:00:59) Reflections on Service
-Initially, he didn't think his time in the Air Force would affect him as much as it did
(01:00:17) Veterans' Organizations
-Involved with the American Legion
-Served as post commander for two years
-Wife served as the post auxiliary chaplain and as the 5th District auxiliary chaplain
-Works with younger veterans coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq
-Part of American Legion Post 409
-Friendly post, and hospitable
-Sent 150 care packages to soldiers deployed overseas
-Volunteers at the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans
-Wife helps at the Veterans' Affairs Clinic in Wyoming, Michigan
-Also helps with the “No Veteran Dies Alone” program
-Insures that no aging veteran dies alone in the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_SturinF1855V
Title
A name given to the resource
Sturim, Frederick P (Interview outline and video), 2015
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-09
Description
An account of the resource
Rick Sturim was born in Brooklyn, New York on October 21, 1942. He attended college at the Newark College of Engineering and joined the Air Force Reserve Officers' Training Corps. He graduated in 1964 and was commissioned in that same year as a 2nd lieutenant. He was trained as an Aircraft Maintenance Officer at Chanute Air Force Base, Illinois from December 1964 through June 1965. In August 1965 he was assigned to Ramey Air Force Base, Puerto Rico where he helped maintain the nuclear weapon-armed B-52 bombers at that base. In August 1968 he was assigned to Kincheloe Air Force Base in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and stayed there until August 1969 when he was discharged from the Air Force.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Sturim, Frederick P.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/x-m4v
application/pdf