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PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Ray Zeeff
(35:190
Background Information (00:05)
Born in 1916 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. (00:07)
He grew up in Grand Rapids. (00:22)
His father was a local truck driver. (00:30)
He attended school through the 10th grade. (00:57)
At 21 he worked in the office of a coal company. (1:05)
In 1937 he joined the National Guard. (1:25)
He joined the guard for the first time in 1932 at the age of 16 due to his uncle pulling some
strings and making his age 18. (1:45)
His father was able to keep his job off and on during the 1930s. Often he and his father would
find work on road sites. (2:21)
First Service in the National Guard (3:00)
The National Guard had the men practice with the Colt 45. and the Springfield rifle. (3:07)
The men were also instructed on how to operate a radio. (3:45)
There was close order drill and long distance marching. (4:50)
The men spent 2 weeks at Camp Farley where they practiced maneuvers. (5:08)
Ray was in the Regimental Head Quarters Company, 126th Infantry Regiment. (5:51)
He stayed in the National Guard until 1935. He left because his dad hired him to help with the
truck driving where he worked for many years. (6:13)
Second Enlistment in the National Guard (6:20)
In the late 30s work was improving but not by a lot. (7:40)
In 1937 he reenlisted in the National Guard. (8:20)
A private in the National Guard got paid 1 dollar (per month). (9:00)
He was assigned to his same outfit when he returned and reenlisted. (9:34)
He was paying attention to the conflicts occurring in Europe during the late 1930s and early
1940s. He received this news through newspaper and radio. (9:48)
In October of 1940 his unit was federalized. (10:23)
He was then sent to Camp Beauregard, Louisiana. (10:57)
He was sent down to Camp Beauregard by train. (11:06)
Training at Camp Beauregard (11:23)
All of the men from the National Guard were sent down to training. There were some older
men. (12:08)
The weather was very hot and muggy and there were a lot of bugs and wildlife. (13:05)
�
There were a lot of men at the camp who were drafted (in the spring of 1941 to fill out the ranks
of the unit) and from the west side of Michigan (the area that the guard unit came from).
(13:20)
His duties during his training were mostly of radio work. (14:33)
He was using a hand crank radio that had a large antenna. The radio transmitted code not
conversation. (15:56)
He left Camp Beauregard after 1 year in the fall of 1941. (17:22)
He was then sent to Camp Livingston, Louisiana. This was seen s being a much nicer camp than
Camp Beauregard. (17:44)
There was opportunities to leave the base while at Camp Livingston. (18:15)
He was married August 26th 1940. (18:43)
His wife never came to visit him but he was given a 7 day leave which he used to go see her.
(19:00)
His unit did go on large maneuvers. Ray was responsible for carrying his radio. It was very heavy.
(19:39)
Other men carried and laid the wire as well as carried batteries. (20:28)
He remembers hearing about Pearl Harbor in December of 1941. (21:24)
He stayed with his unit till the remainder of them shipped out to Fort Lewis in Washington. (The
unit was actually shipped to Fort Devens, Massachusetts, early in 1942, and then to San
Francisco prior to being sent to Australia.) He did not go and was discharged due to partial
blindness in his left eye. (22:07)
He wasn’t disappointed that he was discharged. (23:18)
His division left for Australia in 1942. (24:00)
Life after Service (24:20)
He continued his work as a truck driver. (24:24)
He began cross country truck driving when he returned (approx. 1942/1943) (24:55)
The truck drivers were given special stickers so that they could get fuel that was otherwise
rationed. (25:20)
The road type varied. Some were very beat up and needed patching. (26:00)
He didn’t fallow the news much or his former unit after he was discharged. Many contacted him
after the war to see if they could get work. (27:23)
During target practice after his service, a ricochet shot struck Ray in the head. (28:32)
The bullet was eventually pushed out and Ray was unharmed. (30:03)
He stayed in trucking, but in his later years he was made a departure. (31:00)
He remained a truck driver for 32 years. (31:38)
Thoughts on Service (32:19)
He recalls many of his sergeants. (32:22)
One of his segments would often send odd codes to the men during radio training to make sure
they were understanding it correctly. (33:00)
He remained friends with one of his sergeants even after his service. (33:39)
He learned a lot about team work through the military. (34:12)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ZeeffR0117V
Title
A name given to the resource
Zeeff, Raymond (Interview outline and video), 2011
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Zeeff, Raymond
Description
An account of the resource
Ray Zeeff served in the National Guard from 1932-1935 and then reenlisted and served from 1937-1942 during World War II. During his service, Ray served as a radio operator for the Regimental Headquarters Company 126th Infantry. His unit was federalized in October, 1940, and sent to Louisiana to train. He was discharged in 1942 before going overseas due to partial blindness in one eye.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Army
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2011-06-10
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
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PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Vietnam
Name of Interviewee: Thaddeus Zator (2nd interview)
Length of Interview: 1:07:28
Background:
Born in Newark, New Jersey, in 1919.
His family left New Jersey for Michigan so that his father could get a job at Ford.
He visited Newark later on because his grandmother still lived there.
He attended high school in Detroit and later moved to Alma. Eventually he moved to
Grand Rapids.
He finished high school in 1938, a half a year ahead of time.
After graduation, he worked at a place that made axles.
He was trained as a machinist, because of the classes that were available in high school.
Every Sunday his father would take the car apart and he would help put it back together.
His high understanding of machinery would earn him a high rank in the army. (1:58)
His father worked for Ford on and off during the 1930’s. He always went back because
he was a specialist in making a special polisher for glass.
He used to watch his father work, especially the odd jobs around the house.
He definitely paid attention to what was going on in the world. He acquired most of his
information by reading. His father was a great reader; they had a polish paper, an English
paper and many magazines in the house.
His father talked about government often and he was a great listener. Before he
graduated from high school he used to belong to a local discussion group at the library.
He followed the war all the way through. (4:00)
The day of the attack on Pearl Harbor, he was at another discussion group. This group he
found were too liberal, as they were excited that Pearl Harbor was attacked because it
meant that the USA would join the war.
Later on he realized that company like that was not really for him.
Once the United States entered the war, he knew he was going to get drafted, but he
wanted to work as long as possible. He wasn’t ready to be in the services, especially
when he heard some of the stories of people who got back from serving in the Pacific.
He received a 6 month deferment from the factory he was at for making war materials.
(6:18)
He received his draft notice in the middle of 1942. He reported to Camp Crowder,
Missouri, to undergo the various tests of skill. He ranked high in the mechanical tests
and he was sent into the signal corps at Camp Crowder for basic training.
Camp Crowder was in the middle of nowhere in Missouri.
Basic Training (7:22)
He remembers his time there during basic training.
�
He was never pushed very hard doing the physical work, but it was difficult getting up at
5 AM. He remembers falling asleep standing up one time during training, he was so
tired.
The basic training he got, he felt was not much training at all. Most of what he did
consisted of learning codes, and listening to telephone calls.
He was there only a few months, a short time to him.
He had a company pass and went out on the weekend once, but he did not have much
time for that.
People there were very disciplined, but they got along well.
He recalls the various stories of how one man there was dating a Hollywood actress.
Another man there was a genius at the radio, but since he was handicapped, he slobbered
everywhere. (9:56)
After Camp Crowder he, along with another man from Indiana, was rushed by train to the
east coast, through Canada and were placed on a boat to England.
Before that, he had gone through specialized training learning the teletype. The teletype
is a machine that is like a typewriter, but the finished product prints out in another city. It
also works by using a tape in a radio. He never saw another teletype after that.
Active Duty (12:05)
He remembered the trip to England. The ship did not go with an escort because it
zigzagged the whole trip. He was very seasick the whole trip too.
They fed him toast and tomato juice and held him while he threw up. He spent most of
the trip in his cot and they came to check on him once in a while.
When they rushed him, they forgot to give him his overseas shots on the train. So one of
the first things that happened on the boat was that he got 7 or 8 shots all at once. He
remembers that they were poking him all over the place.
Before he reached England, the boat stopped in the Azores. There he would see the
flying fish and he was amazed at the sight. Fish really can fly. (14:15)
After they left the Azores, they landed in England. Headquarters were in London.
He lived on Green St., which was within walking distance from where he served.
While he was there, he lived in the local houses. The people of London grew afraid of
the war and left their homes. Many of them let the soldiers stay there since they were not
living there. He was very thankful for that.
Backing up, he explains what his work was during the war.
After Camp Crowder, he did not go on a boat. Instead he went to Arlington, Virginia.
There he was trained in the various languages that he was going to encounter during the
war. He was also trained in both encoding and decoding.
He learned how to operate the machine, and through that he learned how the mechanics
of it as well.
While he was there, he visited Washington D.C. One time when he went there he got the
chance to speak with the first lady, Mrs. Roosevelt. After he came out of the depot, he
was confronted by a man who wanted a picture with the first lady, but did not know how
to approach her. So he did this man a favor by taking a picture of her. He never saw the
�
picture. Later, a similar situation would happen with Eisenhower and he never saw that
picture either.
He also visited his grandmother in New Jersey.
Although he was trained in coding, he actually worked on the repairs for the machines.
While he was in training, he passed all the tests fixing all the problems with the
machines. (21:05)
So when he was rushed to England, it was because they needed technicians to work on
the machines.
While he was in England, he stayed in London, but sometimes he was sent to other places
when they needed his skills. He was sent anywhere from small villages outside of
London to crossing in boats to Ireland.
There was a mixture of people who lived in the houses in London. They all belonged to
different camps and places and no one ever spoke about what was going on where they
were at, and what they were doing.
When he went to work, he worked in the residential building. It was like where he lived,
but the windows remained closed because the people there did not want anyone else to
know what they were doing.
It was very elementary and was not much there. Mostly, they met and got their orders to
work on specific machines and left. (23:53)
Sometimes, when there was not anything for him to do, he was assigned to work with the
others.
One man he worked with, by the name of Barlow, was a genius with the machines.
When they got to the machine it took Barlow 5 minutes to figure out the problem, when it
would have taken him almost 2 hours.
Only during the end of the raids did he have to go through some bombings.
Each man was assigned to watch for shrapnel. He never got to see the big part of the
war.
He does not remember a lot of bombing while he was there.
He was also sent to the core headquarters and air bases to work on the different machines
there.
While he was living in London, he and other took advantages of the hot fires and drinks
at a place for the US soldiers. He sometimes took naps there as well.
They also took the underground subway to Piccadilly Circus. There he saw musicals, had
dates, and went to bars. They all laughed and had a great time. (28:20)
The English people there treated him and the other soldiers very well all the time.
They stopped him from smoking cigars. In England people who smoked cigars were
considered to be of higher stature. So when he smoked his, people would look at him
funny like he thought he was something special. So he gave up cigars and gave away
most of his cigarettes to his buddies. He still smoked some, but he was no longer looked
at funny.
While he was there doing his job, he tried to follow the war. There was a local GI paper
there, called the Stars and Stripes, but it was not very good. He also read the English
papers. He enjoyed looking through them because they were so different.
As D-Day approached things in London became somewhat tense, but nothing special
happened. (30:15)
�
As they prepared for the invasion, soldiers were moved to different places, spread
throughout the coast of England. He ended up in staying with a nice old sailor and his
wife.
A couple weeks after D-Day, he landed in France.
France (32:40)
When he got there, he saw German papers lying all over the place. He thought they
would be worth something as a souvenir one day, so he picked some up
Ultimately he would end up on Utah Beach, which was a code name for the westernmost
landing zone in the Allied invasion of D-Day.
While he was there, he did not work on machines, because all of the machines were being
used by the forces ahead of him. Instead they were sent to different installations where he
was needed.
During one of these assignments, he decided to climb a French telephone pole to get a
better look at the bombardment that was happening farther away. Unlike the ones in the
United States, these were made of cement, not wood.
He did not see anything; on his way down, he lost his footing and fell to the ground,
injuring his tailbone in the process. Due to his injury, he walked with his legs spread
apart and everyone was making fun of him. (35:30)
Unlike his fellow soldiers, he had very little equipment. He carried around a toolbox that
held a few basic tools and a diagram of some of the machines he was supposed to work
on.
Even when they were installed, he wasn’t operational. He remembers making one call
someplace, but that was it.
There was also a man by the name of Catello, who was also from Michigan, who drove
him around to different places. A few months ago, he tried to have someone find Catello
over the internet but he did not hear if they were successful in reaching him or not.
(37:17)
The closest thing he got was to finding some Catellos who worked as weather experts on
a local TV station. The young man certainly looked like a Catello, but no more
information was found.
When he spoke of getting installed, he meant they were in the process of arrival. He and
the others were following Patton as he chased after the enemies. They never stayed in
one place too long, or else they would get too far away and then Patton’s forces could not
be reached. (39:08)
As he moved across northern France, a few things stick out in his memory.
There was a bridge in one little town, he saw GI’s parked there, with supplies. Later on
he was told that they were there waiting for the bridge to come down again. Apparently,
that bridge had come down once and they had to put it up.
He also remembers coming across a field, and he saw a kid, a GI to be precise, shooting
at something. Turns out that it was a cow. They kid was complaining that he was
shooting the cow, but it was not going down. He remembers it because it was stupid to
think that one bullet to the belly would take down a cow. (41:08)
�
He does not recall much about the native population. Usually they disappeared, and all
they found were empty houses.
Eventually they stayed in Verdun, France, for a bit, while the Allied assault was stalled
near Luxemburg. He was fairly close to the front lines.
While he was in Verdun, he sat and waited to be assigned to go to a place to work on
maintenance. It did not take very long. (43:22)
Sometimes he would take a small plane, sometimes he would be driven to where he
needed to go.
During the battle of Bastogne, he and the others waited for a couple of days, hoping that
the clouds would clear. Once they did, it meant that the US planes could bombard the
enemy.
When he worked on maintenance, he would find the divisional headquarters, which
moved day to day. His driver and he would spend some time having to find the new
place where the headquarters were before he could do any work.
During one of these expeditions, they found where they camp had previously been. A GI
had been ordered to wait there and point them in the direction of the new camp. When
they went to where the GI pointed, they drove until it was dark, and had not seen a person
in quite some time. (45:00)
Finally, they caught up with a GI, but he did not trust them. Because the enemy
sometimes dressed in GI uniforms, the soldiers were entrusted with a daily passcode, to
ensure they were friends. Unfortunately, he knew the code from the day before, but not
that day, because they drove around so long.
The soldier brought him to their commanding officer, who had to make a decision on
what to do with them. He explained the situation and asked for food and shelter. He also
offered to stay in the truck with his driver. At the time, the trucks they had were not the
jeeps, but a different model used for the hauling around maintenance tools.
They were offered food and coffee. He fell asleep quickly and slept soundly throughout
the night. When he woke up in the morning, everyone was gone. He and his driver
figured that they had been drugged, since they did not hear anything when they others
left. (48:40)
After that, they continued on and eventually found they place they were supposed to get
to. Mission accomplished.
Another time, they were trying to find another camp near the Bavarian Mountains. All
the roads and bridges had been destroyed and they only way across a ditch was to use a
small bridge that was for small carts or cows.
They decided to take this bridge across, as they had nowhere else to go, and it collapsed
behind them. They barely made it across. (50:11)
During that same trip, they ran into German soldiers. They had ventured into an area that
they did not know and out of the forest came two German soldiers with a white flag
waving. They stopped the vehicle and looked for guns, but found none. He figured they
were kitchen help that was left behind.
He did not know what to do, he had a job to do, and did not have time for the German
soldiers. So, he told them to keep walking with their white flag back from where he and
his driver had come, until they found someone else. They did so immediately, with no
questions. (52:03)
�
When the Germans surrendered, he was stationed in Verdun. He went as far as Belgium
for his calls, usually by a small plane known as a [Piper] Cub. He often got sick on those,
just as he had on the boat.
One time he was flying with a captain. When he took his helmet off, preparing to throw
up, the captain order his helmet back on. He did so reluctantly, but the captain ended up
landing the plane in a way that did not make him throw up. Instead of a wobbly, slow
decent, the captain took the plane straight down. At the last minute, he swooped the
plane up and landed. (54:55)
During those times when he flew, he always stayed within the Allied lines.
There was one time when he flew into a raid. At first he thought they were going to pass
it, but it turned out to be the place where they needed to go. They got to the town and the
only person they could see was a colonel directing traffic. He ordered them to go, as it
was not a safe area. Had they arrived sooner, they may have gotten blasted. (56:35)
During his time, he was pretty safe. He does not recall any close calls.
Once the Germans surrendered, things changed. Everyone knew it was going to be over
in a hurry.
He stayed in Europe for the rest of the year. He was sent back to London to finish up his
work. There he had worked in the American Embassy for a couple of days. (58:56)
After his time was over, he was sent on a Dutch boat back home. They no longer had to
worry about German submarines. He was seasick all the way home. The weather was
good the whole way home.
When he got home, they tried to get him to reenlist, telling him he could work for IBM if
he wanted. He declined and was discharged.
Post Duty (1:00:00)
After he went home, he attended college at DIT, Detroit Institute of Technology.
When he was finished there, he attended law school at the Detroit College of Law.
It was then that his family went through a crisis. His father could no longer work, due to
terrible arthritis. His older brother was not working, but his younger brother was. This
was not enough income.
So he quit law school and went to a butcher school in Toledo, so he could become an
efficient grocer.
His family bought a store, and he and his mother ran it for a couple of years.
Unfortunately at the time, smaller stores were beginning to disappear and larger
commercial stores were beginning to take over. (1:02:25)
After he stopped working at the grocery store, he went to work at one of his wholesalers.
While working for them he contacted the many customers this wholesaler had and
negotiated the business on goings, such as prices and quantities. It was an interesting job,
and different every day.
He did not regret not going into a technical field. If he did, he would have to change and
move away. He was happy at home.
Going back to his time in the service, he recalls teaching other people how to do his job.
�
In England, before the invasion, his boss decided that some of the people that they
serviced in England could learn to be trained themselves. They would come for weeks at
a time and attend his class, teaching about the machine.
He taught his class a little differently than what he got in basic training. Instead of
teaching the names of parts, he taught them more about how the machine worked.
(1:05:30)
Looking back, he learned more about the machine. He appreciates the money that he got
for schooling.
He also thinks he changed a bit. He feels like he became more of a leader, which helped
him in his supervisor position at a pharmaceutical company.
His time in the service was fun; there was never a dull moment.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ZatorT0958V
Title
A name given to the resource
Zator, Thaddeus (Interview outline and video), 2010
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Zator, Thaddeus
Description
An account of the resource
Thaddeus Zator grew up in Michigan and was drafted in the Army during World War II. He trained as a communications specialist, first at Camp Crowder, Missouri, and then in Arlington, Virginia, before being sent to England in 1943. He was based in London, and traveled around to repair communications equipment. After D-Day, he was sent to France, where he moved from unit to unit to work on equipment as needed, often flying in small planes to his assignments from a base near Verdun, France.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2010-11-30
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/99f65f2b80ce6ff692e728f432c063e8.mp4
c8b9ec642c33c593697cedb3afaded2a
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/47ddbf3a76cdf761da08ab75a4515384.pdf
67df91732c074f508feecebea0e5d5b0
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Raymond Zandstra
(00:54:14)
Background
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Interviewed at the Lowell Historical Museum. (:07)
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Born 9/30/1941, in Grand Rapids. (0:16)
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Raised as an only child, until his half-brother was born. (0:41)
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His mother was a single parent during WWII. As a result he spent a lot of time with his
extended family when she was at work. (:52)
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His mother re-married 1947, when he was about six. (1:24)
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His step-father was the only father he knew. He accepted and respected his step-father.
(1:43)
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He was nine when his brother was born. (1:56)
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First job was delivering the Grand Rapids Herald, a morning paper. The Grand Rapids
Press was an afternoon paper. (2:06)
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Worked at a car wash during high school. (2:25)
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Went to Godwin Heights high school, and graduated 1959. (2:38)
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Met his future wife during high school. He was about fourteen. (2:49)
Enlistment
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Enlisted at age 17, in the Navy. (3:05)
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Sworn in six weeks after graduating, July 14, 1959. (3:24)
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Decided to enlist because he had no direction in life, and didn't want to go to college at the
time. He had “had it” with books and studying. (3:45)
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Also thought he wouldn't be injured during peacetime, and wanted to learn something.
(4:13)
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Learned discipline, respect, and became a man. (4:33)
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His parents were opposed to his joining, but realized it was his choice and respected that.
(4:50)
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He chose the Navy partly because his biological father and his step-father had both been in
the Navy. (5:13)
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Another reason was that he liked the Navy clothes the best. The Army, Air Force, and
Marines had to wear neckties and button shirts. The Army also had to wear hard hats and
the Navy had softer hats. (5:42)
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Basic training ideally lasted twelve to fourteen weeks, but in practice was usually around
sixteen. The longer time was a result of bureaucratic lag in assignments and processing.
(6:18)
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Was shipped out, but not informed where he was headed. He didn't find out specifically
until he had almost arrived. He did know he was being sent somewhere in Europe. (7:20)
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Spent a year in Sicily. (7:30)
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Came back to the U.S. Afterwards, and went to a school for helicopter training. (7:35)
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Helicopter maintenance school in Memphis, TN. Lasted sixteen weeks (7:45)
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West Coast, San Diego, CA. Helicopter Squadron 1. (8:02)
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Helicopters were used for plane guard on aircraft carriers, and for rescue duty. (8:34)
Survivor Training/Mock Prison
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San Diego, one week survival training. (8:34)
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Survivor course, had to learn how to survive off the land. (:02)
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Escape and evasion techniques. (9:23)
The week was completed with twenty four hours in a mock prison. (8:39)
Were interrogated in the mock prisons. (8:39)
Trained to only give name, rank, and serial number. (10:04)
Training was required for air-sea rescue staff. (10:23)
The course was also recommended for individuals looking to advance in rank. (10:44)
The first day of the week was spent on the beach learning swimming techniques. (11:06)
Had to forage for food. Had lobster and fish soup cooked on a fire pit. (11:34)
They were taken out to sea in boats, and had to float alone in the sea for a short period. This
was to learn about being stranded at sea. (11:57)
Trained in helicopter pickup. (12:16)
Learned more swimming techniques in a large swimming pool. (12:27)
Endurance swimming and life-vest training. (12:40)
Had to jump off of a tower, about sixteen feet high. Training for jumping off of sinking
ships. (13:06)
Went on hiking trips, five to seven people with a contour map. (13:23)
Had to find their way to a specified point. (13:37)
It was a day long activity. (13:52)
The week was filled with other similar activities. (13:52)
During the interrogations they were not given food or medical supplies. (14:28)
Finally were given some food, but only after they sterilized their canteens with boiling
water. (14:52)
Remarks that hot water was “not fun to drink.” (15:18)
They were not given much water to drink. (15:18)
Asked for more water. (15:30)
Given small amount of food, had to learn to share with his comrades. Usually made soup.
(15:45)
Stimulated air raids during mock prison experience. (16:00)
Interrogations varied in length. (16:08)
The interrogations were longer if they got any information. (16:33)
During interrogations it is best to only give name, rank, and serial number. The interrogators
often try to socialize with their victims. If they can get some information, even it is
unimportant; it is easier to get more important information. (16:53)
Common questions include: What task force are you with? What size ship? What ship?
Where are you going? How many planes? And other similar questions. (17:27)
Name, rank and serial number, only. (17:42)
Some were interrogated multiple times. (17:51)
One of the men was black (1 out of 125). He interrogated for longer periods, and more
often. (18:05)
Minorities were often picked on. (18:23)
The black man was nicknamed “Elvis.” (18:46)
The interrogators would often ask for Elvis, and the men would try to protect him, to no
avail. (18:46)
Elvis did very well. He was well conditioned, and intelligent. (19:17)
Elvis was able to keep in mind the experience was a training exercise. It was very close to
the real thing however. (19:30)
The interrogations got physical frequently. They were hit, chairs were kicked out from
under them, but the interrogators were not allowed to draw blood. (20:00)
The interrogation was at the end of a survivor course. The men were exhausted, physically
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and mentally. (20:35)
Several people, six to ten, got heat exhaustion. (21:01)
The compound was in the desert, the exercise had to be stopped. The men with heat
exhaustion were in critical condition. (21:22)
A helicopter took them to the naval hospital. (21:43)
Sicily
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While in Sicily was a part of FASSRON, Fleet Air Support Squadron. (22:29)
Originally was assigned to Malta. When he arrived, they were in the process of
decommissioning the air base. (23:35)
He was then sent to Sicily, to oversee the construction of the new base. The construction
was delayed. (22:50)
NATO required that the base be more than half built by Sicilians. The Sicilians were not
very quick, resulting in the delay. (23:08)
Some parts of the camp were finished, others were not. The barracks were not completed,
and they had to sleep on desks in the administrative offices until they were finished. (23:32)
The Sicilians didn't know much about the United States. American occupation during
WWII had been brief. (23:55)
The men were not permitted to wear uniforms while in Sicily. (24:28)
Men went to Catania, Sicily for supplies and groceries. (24:36)
Ate outdoors most of the time. (24:50)
Sicilian culture did not approve of tattoos, uniforms, or living behind fences. They
perceived people who did such as the “enemy.” (25:00)
Italian perception was that higher class people lived North, and lower class people lived
South. Sicily was south of Italy, and perceived as being low class. (25:31)
Sicilians were mostly Italian culturally. (26:07)
Americans did many of the things that Sicilians did not approve of, resulting in them being
disliked. (26:19)
The air base was part of an arrangement with NATO. (26:30)
The air base was strategic to American interests, as it was in the center of the
Mediterranean. (26:30)
The base also provided jobs for Sicilians in construction, maintenance, and cooking. (26:58)
While in Sicily, his duties were aircraft maintenance and repair and occasionally security.
(27:21)
The “ship's company,” men who were permanently assigned to Sicily, had three aircraft.
(28:06)
Had many types of planes coming and leaving. (28:17)
Planes were usually at the base four to six weeks. (28:59)
The planes served on many types of missions. Reconnaissance using photographs and
sonar, and patrol squads. (29:03)
Letters were the only form of communication. They took seven to days to arrive. (29:27)
During Christmas he wanted to call home, so he went to a hotel. The operator had to place
the call, which took two to four hours. The calls usually lasted two to three minutes.
(30:08)
The long distance calls were very expensive, which was why they were not allowed
frequently or for very long. They had phones at the base, but they were internal only.
(30:53)
His aunt frequently sent him care packages. Gum, fudge, cookies, cakes, and other various
baked goods were the most common contents. (31:17)
Hopefully the baked goods would be sent by air. This only occurred if the aircraft had the
�room, otherwise they were sent by ship. The ship route took thirty to forty days, by which
time most of the baked goods were no longer any good. He was always thankful to receive
things from home, even if they were stale baked goods. (32:03)
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Has a picture of the base, explains various parts of the base. (32:32)
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Some of the men brought their families with them. (33:14)
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His barracks overlooked olive orchards. (33:38)
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The base was near Mount Etna, the largest active volcano. (34:04)
Helicopter School
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After Sicily, he went to the Helicopter Maintenance School.
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Helicopter Squadron #1 in San Diego, CA. (34:52)
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The base was in Imperial Beach, CA on the Mexican border. (35:02)
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Was a very small air base. (35:22)
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It was five or six miles away from San Diego, which had a very large air base. (35:31)
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Between the two was North Island naval base, which was used to train the Navy SEALS.
(35:48)
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The helped the SEALS with helicopter training. (36:10)
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The SEALS had a graduation rate of around 8%. Half of a one hundred man group would
drop out within a week. (36:33)
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At Imperial Beach, he was the training petty officer for Helicopter Utility Squadron One.
(37:15)
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The air-sea rescue crew had rigid training. They had to lean special swimming techniques,
aircraft, and were trained in taking off of an aircraft carrier. (37:41)
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They had a permanent detachment in Hedsuey, Japan. The rescue crews would spend a year
at that base. (38:22)
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He scheduled training exercises, assignments, and classes. (38:46)
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Deployments were called “cruises.” (39:04)
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Cruises varied in length. North PAC or South PAC (North or South Pacific) lasted about
three months. (39:16)
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The cruises to the Poles were the only ones where crew was allowed to grow a beard.
(39:41)
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Other cruises were between four and ten months aboard carriers in the Pacific. (39:55)
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Helicopters were put on plane guard. A helicopter had to present, and in the air at any
landings or take-offs onto an aircraft carrier. (40:25)
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When he was in Memphis, he sometimes went home for the weekends. It was a fourteen
hour drive. (41:06)
Discharge
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His tour duty was a “minority enlistment” because he was sworn in at age seventeen. As a
result he was to be released the day before his twenty-first birthday, but that was a Saturday
so he was released an additional day early. (41:50)
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Released 9/28/1962 (42:30)
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He had everything packed and ready. He left base at about noon that day. Drove twenty
hour days from San Diego to Grand Rapids and arrived at 9:00 pm Sunday. (43:02)
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The following week he wanted to call one of his military friends at home. He found out his
friend wasn't home. (43:13)
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His friend had been at the “Bay of Pigs” invasion, and was not discharged until Christmas.
No men were allowed to be discharged during this period, a fate he barely escaped. (44:14)
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Credits Kennedy's fast-talking with preventing a war with Russia or Cuba. (44:38)
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He was stationed during the Cold War Era, many things happened that he didn't know about.
Later on, in the seventies, the government issues “Vietnam bonuses” to men who had served
�in the “Vietnam Era.” He had served during the period, but had never heard of the situation
in Vietnam. (44:45)
Post-Enlistment
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After being discharged, he came home. He was married by this time. (45:54)
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His wife was expecting their first child. (46:08)
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He still didn't want to go to college, and he had a family to support so he looked for a job.
(46:20)
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His parents had wanted him to go to college to avoid work in a factory. As a result, he did
not want to work in a factory. (46:28)
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He had taken drafting courses in high school, and got a job with the Fred F. Johnson map
company. (46:54)
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The company drew and sold city maps. (47:19)
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He worked with that company for a year to a year and a half, and then had an opportunity to
work with a civil engineering company in Grand Rapids. This job paid more, and had more
of a future so he took advantage of the situation. He worked there for ten years. (47:32)
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He left that company for another, similar company and worked there for fifteen years as the
head of the surveying department. (48:11)
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Later on, one of the engineers wanted to leave and found his own business, but was looking
for a partner. The two of them started a company. (28:30)
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For the first year and a half the office was in his home. They were in business for eighteen
years. (49:21)
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The company still exists, and has offices in Grand Rapids. He retired September 30.
(49:36)
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Has three daughters, his oldest is forty-five and named Rayna, after him. His second
daughter, Wendy is four years younger. His youngest daughter Shelby is ten years younger
than Rayna. (49:49)
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He has five grand-children. (50:41)
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His grandson is named Caleb Zandstra, and will continue the name. (50:59)
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His family has always been in the Grand Rapids area, until recently. His eldest daughter is
leaving due to a job transfer. (51:27)
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His second daughter is still in the area, but she will be moving because her husband lives in
Mobile, AL. She is waiting for some business transactions involving condos to be
completed. (52:00)
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His youngest daughter is moving as well, but he isn't sure where. (52:40)
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Recommends retiring to everyone. (53:00)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ZandstraR
Title
A name given to the resource
Zandstra, Raymond L. (Interview outline and video), 2007
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Zandstra, Raymond L.
Description
An account of the resource
Raymond Zandstra was born in Grand Rapids. He served in the US Navy from July 14, 1959 to Sept. 28, 1962. He served in Sicily, and in the San Diego Helicopter Squadron One. Most of his duties revolved around helicopter maintenance and repair. He was trained in air-sea rescue in Imperial Beach. He also relates the story of a one-week survival training course he took, during which he was placed in a mock prison for twenty four hours.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Finnie, Rebecca (Interviewer)
Lowell Area Historical Museum (Lowell, Mich.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Video recordings
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
United States. Navy
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2007-05-30
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5013053e63cc3351a76c6b4470452975.mp4
e029740b8ec11ef00382ebb76d137942
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3d9f105f4838b17bcc605fad331ba039.pdf
4b316bf4fddc05606361ff2a8b8ea7d1
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Ronald Zandbergen
Cold War
23 minutes 0 seconds
(00:00:10)
-Born in November 26th, 1942 in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
-Raised on a farm.
-About 250 acre farm raising animals for food.
-Sold wholesale meats.
-Joined the Navy in January of 1961.
-Graduated high school in June of 1960.
-A friend of his decided to join with him to see the world.
-Took basic training at Great Lakes, Wisconsin.
-Training was rough, and rugged.
-Only half passed training.
-He was assigned to be a radioman.
-In Bainbridge, Maryland he was trained to do communications, Morse code.
-After Bainbridge he was sent to Keflavik, Iceland where he remained for one year.
-Their role was protecting the military line between Greenland and Iceland.
-Protecting US ships from Russian aircraft etc.
-Grounded two mig fighters at one point. Released after Cuban blockade ended.
-After Iceland he was sent to Little Creek, Virginia to transfer to the Tactical Air Control
Squadron 21.
-The remaining four years of his military career were spent with the Squadron.
-Spent six months in the Mediterranean.
-Visited all of the ports.
-Traveled on the USS Boxer for six months.
-Went to Cuba.
-Did training just off of Cuba.
-Visited Guantanamo Bay.
-Valuable lessons from the Navy.
-Being at sea for so long teaches you to get along with people you don’t like.
-Mediterranean different from the Ocean in that it is so clear you can see the bottom.
-Loved going to France and Spain.
-Attended the bull fights.
-Being in the military teaches you a lot about yourself.
-He loved the Navy and enjoyed the experience overall.
-In Iceland it was so dark and icy that walking to the mess hall required holding a rope.
(10:00)
-He was injured while slipping on ice and sent to a hospital in New York.
-Injured his back.
-Navy didn’t tell them too much about the Russian position or Cold War in detail.
-Iceland was backed by Russia, but the locals were very friendly.
�-Locals worked on the base in kitchens, and theater etc.
-Appreciated the fact that the Cold War was not active fighting.
-What did you think about the Vietnam War?
-He was discharged in January of 1965.
-Can’t comment too much in detail, but felt bad about the situation.
-What was it like being in Virginia?
-Married while in Virginia.
-Had his son there.
-Son now serves in the Air Force as a Lieutenant Colonel.
(15:00)
-At that time he was considering staying in the military, but decided against it.
-Basic training required jumping from an 80 foot high platform into a pool.
-Learned how to tie a pair of pants around him in such a way that air from the fall created a
floatation device.
-Does not recall any women in the Navy at that time.
-Very proud to pass his basic training because it was so difficult.
-Learned to fire a gun, however they were not issued a firearm.
-Their vessel was a flagship, not a battleship.
-During the travels along the Mediterranean they were aboard the USS Francis Marion.
-Originally the ship was a passenger ship.
-They sailed with the commander.
-As a radioman he communicated with aircraft in the area, not menial cleaning duties.
-Highest rank achieved was radioman 3rd class.
-Up for 2nd class before leaving the service.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_ZandbergenR1834V
Title
A name given to the resource
Zandbergen, Ronald Fay (Interview outline and video), 2015
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-05-30
Description
An account of the resource
Ronald Zandbergen was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on November 26th, 1942. He joined the Navy in January of 1961. At Great Lakes, Wisconsin he endured basic training and became assigned to communications as a radioman. In Bainbridge, Maryland he was trained in Morse Code and radio specialization. Then he spent a year in Keflavik, Iceland where the US was wary of ships during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Next he was sent to Littlecreek, Virginia to the Tactical Air Control Squadron 21. During his time in the Navy Ronald travelled on the USS Boxer, and visited European ports in the Mediterranean area on the USS Francis Marion.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Zandbergen, Ronald Fay
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Burrill, Zach (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
United States. Navy
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b4a971084faf2ee7e6b962d95c465e11.mp4
07b9272c14d4a44f7b7863febcfc960c
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f5757102578b9b5ad361ebe5065e60b6.pdf
81fd8d834a447404033012b0eb056254
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley state University
Veterans History Project
Vietnam War
Ron Zahn
(50:44)
Background Information (00:20)
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Born on December 29th 1951 in Indiana. (00:22)
He lived his childhood in a small town in the upper peninsula of Michigan. (00:40)
Ron’s parents were retired farmers. (00:55)
Before going into the service, Ron did much of his work on farms and also trapped animals.
(1:17)
He had little knowledge of what was occurring in Vietnam and paid little attention to its
occurrences. (1:48)
Ron got two MIPs while in high school and was given the choice of going to jail or going into the
service. Ron chose the service in the spring of 1969. (2:15)
Ron went into the Army and signed up for a 2 year stint. (2:54)
Ron entered service in September of 1969. (3:45)
He was sent to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, for a physical. He saw people intentionally breaking digits
in order to avoid entering the service. (4:03)
Basic Training (5:02)
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Ron was sent to Fort Campbell, Kentucky, for basic training. He thought it was a little scary
(5:15)
Because Fort Campbell was full, Ron was sent to Fort Benning, Georgia. (5:55)
Basic training was physically difficult; however Ron was in better shape than most. (6:25)
Basic training lasted 6 weeks. (7:00)
Some of the instructors were Vietnam veterans. (7:32)
Next, Ron was sent to Fort Sill, Oklahoma, for AIT [Advanced Individual Training]. Ron was
assigned to Field Artillery. (8:11)
Ron was trained on 155mm howitzers. Ron was responsible for sighting the weapon. Ron set the
elevation of the gun by using a sight and a crank. (9:10)
The training on the gun lasted 6 weeks. (11:03)
Ron graduated AIT in December of 1969. He received orders to go to Germany. (11:27)
He was given 2 weeks leave and then reported back to Fort Sill. When he reported back the
orders were changed to Vietnam. (12:12)
The men were given another week of leave and then reported to Fort Lewis, Washington. From
here the men flew to Alaska and then to Cam Ranh Bay. (13:47)
Early Service in Vietnam (14:00)
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Ron was scared when he arrived in Vietnam. He took note of the heat. (14:15)
Ron was then sent to Camp Evans where the 101st Airborne was stationed. (15:20)
The Battery was at Camp Evans. (15:36)
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He believes that the Battery received Ron all right. He was not the only new man. (16:17)
There were 6 guns on the battery. Ron was assigned to gun number one. Ron kept the breech
clean and oiled the barrel. (16:45)
Ron began his service at Camp Carroll where the men stayed for 2 weeks. In February of 1970
the men were moved to Firebase Rakkasan. (17:25)
On the fire bases the men were subjected to mortar and sniper fire. (18:46)
The men in the battery did have to set up parameter security. The men also had their own fox
holes by the guns. (19:19)
A month later in March of 1970, the men were moved to Gladiator. (20:11)
While at Gladiator, enemy men got through the wire and demolished the ammo dump. (20:41)
The men spent about one month at Gladiator before being moved to Fire base Kathryn for 1-2
weeks then to Rakkasan again. (21:17)
Service on Ripcord (22:00)
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The men arrived at Ripcord in mid June of 1970. The area was very frightening due to the
proximity of the jungle to the base and that other groups had been chased off Ripcord before.
(21:31)
After the engineers dug foxholes, Ron went in and dug them deeper. (24:00)
The guns often provided support for the troops around Ripcord. (25:25)
Gradually, mortar and sniper fire began showing up along with rockets, tear gas, and machine
gun fire. (25:50)
Ammunition was brought in using Chinooks and Hueys. (26:52)
The ammunition was dropped at the back of the base. The men were required to carry the
ammunition from the back to the front of the fire base. (27:19)
Ammunition often got to the base, it was the drop and going to get the ammunition that was
dangerous as this was what triggered enemy fire. (28:51)
Ron doesn’t remember sleeping in Vietnam. (29:50)
Ron’s unit did not lose any guns. However, the 105mm battery unit lost all 6 guns in July after a
helicopter crashed with ammunition on the base. (30:44)
A man got pinned in the fire and pleaded for the others to shoot him. But due to the intensity of
the fire, no man could get in close enough to do so or to help him. (32:05)
There were no casualties in Ron’s battery because of the 105 accident. But because the 105s
could no longer fire, Ron’s battery had to fire more to fill the missions. (33:02)
At this time the unit was losing officers and sergeants through indirect fire and mortars. (36:37)
There were some men that came to replace casualties, however on Ron’s gun, the men did not
want any one else on their gun, even if a man as lost. (38:37)
The men were told on the night of July 21st that on July 22nd the men would be leaving Ripcord.
The men shot off as much ammunition as they had before leaving. Ron did not think they would
be able to evacuate Ripcord. (39:10)
Men were always prepared to destroy the guns if over run. (40:24)
All 6 guns were removed successfully form Ripcord. When the men left, they were handed a
number. The numbers were used to decide who left Ripcord first. (41:15)
Ron took the second to last chopper off of Ripcord. (43:03)
The men are moved to Camp Evans. Ron didn’t know where the other members of the battery
or the guns were once he was moved. (44:41)
�End of Service (45:09)
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There was a two week long stand down after returning from Ripcord. The men then stayed at
Rakkasan. Here Ron had his hand smashed in the breech of the gun. (45:16)
Ron volunteered to assist build a new fire base in early August of 1970. (46:30)
Ron did finish his high school education. This was before he was sent to Vietnam. (49:26)
Ron was asked to reenlist but did not want to. (49:40)
Ron spent his time after the service working as an auto mechanic and a truck driver. (50:15)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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ZahnR1444V
Title
A name given to the resource
Zahn, Ronald (Interview outline and video), 2012
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Zahn, Ronald
Description
An account of the resource
Ron Zahn, born in 1951 in Indiana, served in the U.S. Army from 1969 to 1971. Ron was forced to enlist in the Army after receiving an MIP. He underwent basic training at Fort Benning, Georgia, and AIT at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, where he was trained on artillery. In early 1970, Ron was sent to Vietnam where he served in A Battery, 2nd Battalion, 11th Field Artillery in the 101st Airborne Division. His battery was based at Camp Evans, and moved around the northern part of South Vietnam, spending time at Firebases Rakkasan, Gladiator, Kathryn and Ripcord and at Camp Carroll. His battery was on Ripcord while it was under siege and evacuated in July, 1970.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
McGregor, Michael (Interviewer)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
United States. Army
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012-10-06
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8964250a35e216df68f0c7535370032f.mp4
1de168de9c03b23f3bd8de3a25fabd34
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/01a2e05986df7ac34c39bf013b6b7d03.pdf
7690dff88ab2663d543eb9f325bc362f
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interviews
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Yu-Wei K'ang
Date of Interview: 03-23-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 4]
YU WEI:
I think that was August 18, 1944 flight of 6 P-40's bombed
the railroad across [?] Peikun [?] railroad. Captain Maloney
was the leader and my flight was Lt. Chen. We decided to [?]
locomotive, ammunition. So we went there to bomb and were
told my Captain Maloney if the aircraft was so strong we just
drop the bomb and leave. But Lt. Chen decided when we look
at those locomotives, [?] we really what do you call it, blood
thirsty or something. He made 8 passes, I was with him. And
he was a very shot up. I told him, Lt. you flight near the
mountain [?] there you went into the mountain. So you get
away from Japanese, but he couldn't make it. He crash near a
village. I had to protect him, he climb out he was captured
and released as a P.O.W. came after the war. I was shot up I
couldn't make it my temperature was high so I crashed in
between the mountains and hit a big piece of stone and so I
had a bad cut. I almost fainted and somebody came. You see
when we went on combat mission we were given [?] the guys
said we are guerrillas so I fainted. The next thing I knew they
stopped by bleeding with a bunch of [?] you know. So then
the Japs came across the rivers so we ran thru a mountain and
in about 9 days I was in friendly hands. First the guerrillas I
had nothing to eat except the piece of chocolate in the
parachute. But we live on piece of parachute for many 2 or 3
days. Then I was stuck there. I had some complications and
�they tiny landing strip there. About 3,000 feet or something. It
was little rainy weather you know. All of a [?] a plane came
over. I went to see a P-40 and he dove down and I know [?] a
package would drop. You know what in the package? A
canteen of bourbon whiskey, four pack of Lucky Strikes and
some American dollars. I was so touched. All of a sudden I
saw the aircraft landing lower the landing gear, trying to land.
I try to stop them. That was Major Bill Turner. I said sir, why
did you do that. Because it is too short, you wait exactly, he
said exactly I cannot stand to see you stand there looking
miserable. You know what he did he squeezed me to the radio
compartment and flew me out. Because all along Japanese
there is no transporting whatsoever. So this sort of
comradeship - fraternity. This is how senior officer treat
junior officer. This sort of spirit you don't see much.
FRANK BORING:
Looking back on that period of your life, when you were a
young man, a cadet and all of this, how do you , what is your
recollection, what is your feeling, what is your, in terms of
where that fits into the rest of your life?
YU WEI:
Of course, you see, I want to, you see, I didn't even graduate
from high school, because I was the last year, in '38, my last
year of high school, but I had to run away because I was on
the Japanese war list. I thought after war I come over and go
back to the school. I think the government should give me
some sort of support. But then starting war with the
Communists.
FRANK BORING:
How do you look back on that period of time, though, in
terms of years? Now you're a certain age, you have been
established in your life and you...
YU WEI:
You see, let me add a little bit of politics. In Chew King Base
[?], all the reports says multitudes of land reformed. They're
just [?] they're not common soldiers, I mean, that's a lot of the
�state department, now I can tell you who is a land reformer.
Chung Gao [?] Multitu [?]. We're the most successful land
reform program in the entire world. A lot of them in China. I
went back to Mainland China last May, the first time in 41
years. I wasn't very happy. I mean I was, what it cost and the
journey, but I was disappointed and disgusted. I went to the
CD where I was born in Shanghai. There was twelve million
people. It was a very hot Mayday. Seems to me that
everybody was on the street. I went to the war house where
you could see two [?], there are already three floors, about
more than ten families live there. I was really disappointed.
And the, I think all systems here will eventually prevail.
FRANK BORING:
Let's just, if you could look back at that period of time when
you 17, 18, 19 years old, where does that fit in terms of your
life? In terms of…
YU WEI:
Well you see, I was too…
FRANK BORING:
Where a major change happened, I guess what I'm looking at
is that period of 17, 18, 19 you were changed, I mean you had
a goal you had a, but something happened during that period.
I guess what I'm looking for is your reflection on that period
of your life and what it had done to make you the person you
are today.
YU WEI:
Well you see, actually, I was a simple minded teenager, all I
want is to join the war with the Japanese. I did not have any
future point. Then after the war of course, I had some plan.
But then we, the Communist came and then we were in
Taiwan, then I had to go along with it. I was married then, I
had kids, so I had to work harder than to just for the family,
food, for the [?]. You see I joined the service when I was 18.
And I retired completely about 2 years ago. After I had
several, many assignments. But I left the Air Force much
sooner than the rest of them. I was a Lt. Col. That year I was
�supposed to promote to full Col., but I was in 1957. I was
assigned to her office, on loan basis.
FRANK BORING:
Where does that young boy, that 17, 18, where does he fit in
terms of your life?
YU WEI:
Well, of course, my war experience, my experience in the two
academies really helped me to stand on my own two feet, you
see. But to do whatever I think is right for the country and for
myself. Of course, long planning, I mean which is what
everybody is looking for, but I did not I was lacking long
planning, but as time went on, I think I'm not satisfied. I was
not cute, I was not a washout, I was , you see a lot of people,
you know my friend, in my squad in 30 seconds, I can't. We
lost about 16 pilot. Chinese pilots in my squad in the whole
squad about 25. I lost my first American flight leader, Lt.
Boyer?*. He was shot down the third mission. I was with
him. So you know this sort of thing can give you a different
way of facing life. First you survive, then you do whatever
you could. To make a better living. You see then of course, I
knew that my education background is not enough to show,
so to ignore this, I read a lot of Asian, Chinese books. And
then the other thing, I started to practice my brush [?]…
FRANK BORING:
What do you think the significance of the AVG in terms of
the Chinese Americans working together?
YU WEI:
Both these relationships, I mean, both sides, American
people, Chinese people, ought to be very powerfully, we
fought together, we lived together and we pursue the same
war together you see, and this is why unless of course, ? and
myself, we're trying everything to send this old flying person
out to join the Fortunes Air Force Association, AVG and the
source of forces, the hump pilot, the P-40 pilot and then we
sometime we'll invite them to Taiwan. For instance, General
Sloshberstig [?], we invite him here about a few years back
�and we hope in a reconcile. That only the third generation, the
parties should bring it up, so I was disgusted with constant
shot, we must do something about. So this time, I'm trying to
take my son to Thunderbird, but he was very busy, he runs a
computer shop in Washington.
FRANK BORING:
Very good. It was excellent.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1938/1991
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English; Chinese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
video; text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88_Yu-Wei_1991-03-23_v04
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Yu Wei
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-03-23
Title
A name given to the resource
Yu Wei interview (video and transcript, 4 of 4), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview of General Yu Wei of the Republic of China Air Force by filmmaker Frank boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. In this tape, Yu Wei looks back on the period of time he spent as a cadet and how it informed the rest of his life, in addition to the significance of the AVG in Chinese and American relations.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/39e06e45c9d0fc279420505128f3f7b1.mp4
ad1c0184388cd4536cbecb5b5373d8b0
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ff4a5e646c6d21a9a8ee3726639de924.pdf
7339e0549e94e03ede6f4e6968a35617
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interviews
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Yu-Wei K'ang
Date of Interview: 03-23-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 3]
FRANK BORING:
In as much detail as possible, if you could explain the
experience of training in China?
YU WEI:
You see I joined the Air Force Academy after I graduated
from flight school. It was only one year. But the rest of group
they were recruits by the Air Force flying school, but they
send them to the Army for training. That took them 2 years
you see. So then training start always lack of bad flying
weather, we get raining there's mud on the runway and you
are short of gasoline because the British cut off the Burma
Road .There is only the Majestic line to the outside world. We
become directly to the inland by the Japanese. So the flight
training was the same, but we had wait and wait for the good
weather, for the parts for the gasoline so that the training
intensive. Now like later on we were in the United States with
the world's best flying weather always plenty of aircraft, and
gasoline.
FRANK BORING:
In turns of the periods of time when you were flying and then
you stop and then flying and you had to stop this interfered
with your ability to get better as a pilot.
YU WEI:
I think so.
�FRANK BORING:
Not just saying I think so, but if you could go thru that whole
period.
YU WEI:
You see if you train a new pilot. You got almost [?] every day
2, 3 hours ground training and the flying combined and all of
a sudden you have to stop for a few days, 3, 5 maybe a week
or even 10 days during monsoon season. You forgot what you
learned. You know the flying tactics is not like driving an
automobile.
FRANK BORING:
Did you miss any of the bombings of the cities?
YU WEI:
We were in other city, [?], even in the morning for the basic
training, but actually was ready, then I had some bad food and
I was in the hospital. I remember clearly that was air raid
alarm. And I was told to get out of the hospital. Which I
didn't because hospital is outside of city you see the city wall
of the Chinese. You build a wall. After the bombing I walk
out. I was almost recovered I saw the corpses piled up to the
city wall which was as high at least 20, 30 feet. That was a
friendly city and the Japanese bombed? There was nothing,
airports were far away and there were no aircraft were we
were I saw several of those bombings.
FRANK BORING:
Could you describe what you saw?
YU WEI:
I saw all [?] pile up the corpse you know. Piled up as high as
the city wall. About 30 feet high maybe more. Men, woman,
all ages. And that city is a defenseless city there is no [?] in
the city and they bombed the city.
FRANK BORING:
Why do you think the Japanese bomb the city rather than
military targets?
YU WEI:
The Japanese, I think the Japanese want to bomb us to destroy
morale, to [?] to fight against them. They bomb Chunking.
�Why? There's no [?] they are all in the front. They bomb all
cities, particular, Where I say I was in [?] and [?] - they were
all bombed. They tried to demoralize the Chinese people so
we can surrender.
FRANK BORING:
Why did the Chinese not surrender? Why didn't these tactics
work?
YU WEI:
We will never surrender to Japanese. The Chinese people
though in size, in military equipment, transporting, whatever
in the high techs we are way behind, but we are a nation of
serenity, we are proud race. We suffer from the Japanese for
the last 100 years, but we weathered many storms, we
suffered, my family lost everything. All the more give us
more courage to fight against them. We never surrender to the
Japanese. No foreign country.
FRANK BORING:
Did you ever have the opportunity to walk thru one of the
bombed out cities.
YU WEI:
I witness the bombing in the city where I was hospitalized
just about 2,3 kilometers from the hospital I walk there I saw
all the dead bodies, right after the bombing. All ages, men
and women. I don't know why the Japanese did that. If I were
commander I wouldn't order my troop to defenseless city like
[?] where we work.
FRANK BORING:
I realize this may be very painful.
YU WEI:
Very much so.
FRANK BORING:
But could you describe what it was like to walk thru that city.
YU WEI:
I feel so sad and furious. I really heart is breaking by looking
at it. You know that people somebody see an automobile run
through a dog they feel bad. And you look at those dead
�bodies, thousands of them. Piles of them. And of course
afterwards I just walk away and go back to the hospital. I
don't know what happened, what they took the dead bodies.
FRANK BORING:
Just looking back from the perspective of your life now how
do you react to the AVG coming to China and working with
the Chinese people. What is your impressions and feeling
of…?
YU WEI:
Big encouragement.
FRANK BORING:
When you say big encouragement remember we need to
reference the AVG.
YU WEI:
Of course, you know we were encouraged by the coming of
the AVG. American Volunteer Group you see. Because we
were based on the same air base in Kunming. We saw AVG
as P-40B, the old P-40 came in by group. I think the first
flight I saw that AVG came was in early 41 or something they
came by a whole group more than 10 of them. Oh, we were so
happy to see them. We know that we were not alone. We are
going to get some new aircraft here. Of course when I saw
this aircraft I didn't know that they were AVG, but later on I
asked my instructor, are they AVG?
FRANK BORING:
Did they have the shark's teeth?
YU WEI:
Yeah, already painted on.
FRANK BORING:
What was your impression to see this colorful group come in?
YU WEI:
Oh, why, I feel jump in mid-air. Because you see, Frank, the
point is that every time when the air raid we saw Japanese
aircraft. Because we are short in equipment, no gasoline, all
of a sudden we see some [?] from outside that's AVG.
�FRANK BORING:
How do you rate in terms of Chinese history, in terms of your
looking back in Chinese history, how do you think the AVG
fit in Chinese history?
YU WEI:
It is very difficult question, however, I think they help us to
build up more confidence in fighting against the Japanese
because equipment wise and technical wise we were behind. I
mean that's nothing to hide away from it. We were behind
because the Japanese were preparing invading China for so
many years and then AVG came in and they started up we
will not be defeated by any foreign aggressors. We have
outside help. I think we must see the point in the whole area.
You see we don't talk about the present period, 40 something
years ago. United States need a unified and peaceful China
otherwise now can balance the world power. During then we
have about 450 million people. Now there is about all that
many. Huge population.
FRANK BORING:
You say it was a morale booster, but if we could get a more
detailed reaction from you, as a cadet especially, I was
thinking if I was 19 years old, 20 years old, if I would have
seen these shark's teeth. It is different than regular airplanes
and they dressed differently and I think the thing that would
have impressed me most about Chinese is Chinese air force
symbol on those airplanes. You know the Americans get mad,
Chinese your air force.
YU WEI:
You know the logo. You see the sharks' teeth. This is why
they call it the tiger you see. You see it really scared the hell
out of the Japanese when we close strafe them you know. I
think that somebody, I read about it I forgot completely.
I think somebody in the AVG started, I forgot, you better
check Frank that would be a good story. I thing General [?]
could tell more about it. And you saw these P-40's they can
dive about 10, 15 miles per hour and usually all aircraft over
�150 maybe 20 miles per hour when you are diving it is so
much faster. And the speed and the maneuverability deciding
factor to win an air battle you see. The AVG brought us a
whole thing in Indo China. And of course Chinese pilots they
have a lot of experience dogfight with the Japanese, but we
did not have the equipment after we have the equipment of
course we can do lots. We can do lots. For instance, you see
afterwards we went back to China to fight the war. In my
squadron, for instance they start only few American schools,
pilots. We had about 20 something pilots. I mean the
proportion American side in numbers, very low the Chinese
pilots of course we have about something.
FRANK BORING:
And with your fellow cadets who had witness how only the
bombings and the anger that you felt and the frustration of not
being able to fly and they were flying antiquated equipment
and everything. What kind of a morale booster, could you
describe what happened to your morale with the AVG
arriving?
YU WEI:
It is very simple, Frank. You saw this aircraft and you knew
some day you were going to fly them. That's all there is to it.
We need the equipment. We may not need them hundred
thousands of American pilots, we need hundreds of thousands
of aircraft. So we can man them so we can fly them. When we
think about some day in short period of time we going to fly
this sort of fast, strong, aircraft. All morale was very good.
Very high. Very high.
FRANK BORING:
More specific in terms of morale, once you started hearing
that the Japanese were being defeated by the AVG what was
your morale? What was your…?
YU WEI:
We only read the newspaper, we were not close to the AVG
because we were only cadets. We read I still remember I
forgot the date, 4 AVG shot down 9 Japanese aircraft over
�Burma border, you know. We thought, gee, someday I'm
going to be in the flight to do the same thing. That sort of
thing you look forward to it. Any young air cadet they
looking forward to the moment and especially we were
oppressed by the Japanese for so many years. And we want to
stand up and say Chinese people will not be oppressed again.
This sort of thing I mean you think and really look forward to
it. That sort of thing I call morale.
FRANK BORING:
I think that's perfect. That's just the sort of thing.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1938/1991
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English; Chinese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
video; text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88_Yu-Wei_1991-03-23_v03
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Yu Wei
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-03-23
Title
A name given to the resource
Yu Wei interview (video and transcript, 3 of 4), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview of General Yu Wei of the Republic of China Air Force by filmmaker Frank boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. In this tape, Yu Wei discusses the painful memories of the bombings he witnessed and the encouragment he felt for the AVG coming to work with the Chinese people.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/742978cbed378bd543169b2aae5cfe86.mp4
e72b609beb41d805fd2dd92b6198f70d
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e79bccf0106ff76bf9e2de38190edc7b.pdf
b14be1716d269e4ba2002cac1bec72f8
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interviews
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Yu-Wei K'ang
Date of Interview: 03-23-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 2]
FRANK BORING:
While you were in the United States training, how much
information did you get about what was going on in China.
YU WEI:
Not much. We are awfully busy you see and most of us
cannot read English newspaper. I did a little because I
remember when I was in school my English teacher was a
British woman so I had some advantage but still we know
roughly want is going on. We lost a certain place. We had a
victory in which part of China and so forth but we do know
that in the future to come we are going to fly more advanced
American aircraft to fight the Japanese.
FRANK BORING:
When did you first hear about Chennault and the AVG?
YU WEI:
That was before I was sent to the United States, because the
[?] did not have his headquarters in the airport, Kunming?
General Tiger Wong was the director of Chinese personnel or
something. We know General Chennault.
FRANK BORING:
Did you ever get a chance to meet?
YU WEI:
After, yes. I know Mrs. Chennault very well.
�FRANK BORING:
While you were in the United States the AVG was getting
very well know there - did you have any contact with them?
Did you find out about the AVG?
YU WEI:
No, you see before we left for United States that was later
part of '41 right after Pearl Harbor. One day we saw a group
of old P-40 came into Kunming, that we read about among
the airport personnel we knew them, AVG moved from
Burma to China.
FRANK BORING:
At that time the AVG still was in existence. Did you have any
contact with the Tigers during that period of time?
YU WEI:
No.
FRANK BORING:
Back track to the training period and everything. When you
were being trained you said there were three different stage of
training. The first stage was in China.
YU WEI:
Yeah.
FRANK BORING:
Second stage was in China?
YU WEI:
Yeah, part of the second stage. The third was in the United
States. But we had to start all over again from primary to
advance to [?] to full stage of training in the United States.
FRANK BORING:
What I'm trying to get you to who were the actual people.
Stop a minute. Sure.
YU WEI:
You see in the small little village. West part of Kunming.
West part of Burma even. Very let's see a couple of hundred
houses. A small village. We were actually at the center of the
whole area. Besides flight training, sports, jogging,
basketball, football, soccer. We didn't have any activities. No
social life, no movie to go, no dates.
�FRANK BORING:
What was your relationship with the other cadets? What we
are really looking for is to get an idea of what it was like to be
there. You were so excited about finally be able to get into the
Air Force Academy. What were the other pilots thinking
about and what was their morale like? What was their
concerns? I mean. Where they going to finally get
equipment? There must have been things you were talking
about and concerns.
YU WEI:
Yes, you see. We are all from all parts of China. Some cadets
they were from inland China, they didn't even see a
locomotive. So we get along, but the wash out rate very high.
I think we start with 290 something and least when we were
in the United States only about 50 60 left. Wash out. Because
you see you have to be soloed around 10 hours or less or
more, but if you're not capable flying you just wash out. And
the wash out rates are very high. So we see people left we feel
so sorry, but however they all hold a military Army rank so
still able to return to the Army. So it is well arranged. Usually
air cadets must go thru training process thru the military
academy so that they get the basic training as a soldier. Then
this starting of flight training.
FRANK BORING:
When you saw the other cadets were washing out and you
weren't. Was there a sense of competition or what was that
like?
YU WEI:
Of course, I feel proud of myself, however I was worried
about what was going to happen. But after I, but you see in
my flight we had a flight cadets, I was the last one soloed. See
my instructor was a very careful officer, he even sent me to
American check pilot. American check pilot, I think, Mr.
Preston?* or something like I forgot. Preston?*, he took me
up he told me you can solo. So I soloed. Then they didn't
�appear to come in the last stage of aerobatics. I was [?] then
the better of other four.
FRANK BORING:
Can you remember or can you describe the feelings that you
had the first time you soloed?
YU WEI:
I was I thought I was on the top of the world. Really feel
proud of myself. People say that somebody get nervous or
tension, but I did not have that kind of feeling. Only looked
forward that someday I'm going to fight. Fly a fighter in the
[?] with machine guns and so forth you see. Because I have so
many bad experiences with the Japanese bombings.
FRANK BORING:
That was wonderful except we really don't have reference to
what he was… oh, you have to say, “I was so proud of my
solo flight I didn't feel nervous” - that always has to reference
what you’re trying to document, because you won't hear my
questions.
YU WEI:
You see Frank, I think my flight was 5 cadets I was the last
one soloed. But before my Chinese instructor even sent me to
the American check pilot to check me out because he was
very careful. I don't know why, but after the flight I had with
Mr. Preston [?] the American check pilot he told me that you
can solo. So I went up and I saw I was on top of the world, I
was so proud of myself. A lot of people say that you get
nervous and tension, but I don't have such kind of feeling. I
like flying so after I quit flying, I really miss flying.
FRANK BORING:
In terms of the views that you were getting at the cadet school
did you have any idea how China was doing against the
Japanese.
YU WEI:
Yes, roughly we do.
FRANK BORING:
Please explain about that.
�YU WEI:
Yes, you see the United States most of them do not largely
read American newspaper, but I had some little advantage
because my school training. I had a British woman as my
English teacher. We don't something about it, of course the
big events, but however, all the news dispatch usually
government, United States government, Chinese government
so we knew lost some place, we had some victory over the
Japanese, but it makes us really anxious to get back. To fight
the Japanese, everybody was very patriotic. Because we were
having enough of the Japanese low mentality, killing people.
FRANK BORING:
What was your evaluation, candid evaluation of the military
difference, not political, but military between the Japanese air
force at that time and the resources you had as a Chinese air
force.
YU WEI:
Of course, I was a cadet in the later part of the 30's and early
40's. There's no match. The Japanese they had their zeros or
their 89's, 98, 97. Much faster, much more maneuverable you
see. And we had bunch of American old biplanes, they even
shoot the machine guns thru the propellers. Some Italian [?],
some Russian E15, E16. There's no match. So those old
fighter pilots they really had very, very hard time. Of course,
after the AVG after we were back from United States brought
with us a group of new P40's. We were start to wipe out the
Japanese Air Force, especially in the early I think in the first
part of 45 where we had a bunch P-51's from India I never
had any combat with the Japanese fighters. Never saw them
in the air until the war was ended.
FRANK BORING:
Hold up for a second. If we could look at more detail now at
the style of training that you were given -- once again we are
still talking about being in China not the American training -the style of training at that time, was it still in threes or now
what was the actual process, if you will, the style of fighting?
�YU WEI:
In the basic there was no combat training. You don't have to
stay in formation and so forth, but even in advance we fly
those 86's you see. There was quite good aircraft. But in the
old [?] breaking training unit in [?] we had all kind of,
Strafing, dive bombing, aerial target shooting, formation
flying, dog fight, training was really good much more than we
really expected. Because a lot of training aircraft P-40's there
was no shortage gasoline. Not like in China, you have to
come back in the training. Most of the Burma Road was cut
by the British. No supply. Everything had to be flown over
the hump you see. So we were really, for instance, we can we
could fly about 3, 4 hours a day during the week days from
Monday to Friday. So training really have to brief you. We
had really maybe what 4 flying hours before joined the
combat maybe a little more. I was never trained by the [?]
only by the Chinese and Americans.
FRANK BORING:
You can talk about the training you had with American and
the Chinese so we can get a sense. Remember the training I
had with Chinese the training I had with the Americans.
YU WEI:
I finish my primary training about 80 or something and very
short period of basic training three stages. And of course in
China we only had Chinese instructors and some of them
have combat experience some of them I don't think they had
combat experience. But in the United States we had enough
aircraft, enough gasoline, enough equipment and the training
went on really smoothly, intensively. Especially the weather
in Arizona you can fly all year round. Not in Kunming, or [?]
if it rain it start to rain to stayed on the ground for 10 days,
week, so forth, so forth. Something we run out of gasoline. So
I think the training you see you have to intensively train,
otherwise you in between the training period you had a week
or ten days left and you forgot the feelings. So I think the
continuously the American air force, Chinese air force did the
�right decisions to send them to Arizona because the flying
weather was always good except thunderstorms for a couple
of hours. It is all over.
FRANK BORING:
This is exactly what we are looking for. What we need to
know. Say the training was the same, but the conditions, the
difficulty of training in China
YU WEI:
You see when I just start the flight training I think that was
early 1940 we had a group of fleets, that’s 120 horsepowers.
About 20 or 30 of them, but we had about 20 to 90 cadets.
You see that weather in [?] there are monsoon season. During
the whole period everybody is stuck on the ground.
Sometimes there is no gasoline because the British cut off the
Burma Road. Supply line was cut you know we run out of
gasoline. So the training was on and off and now intensive
enough. I think then you have a 5 hour flight last week and
you have to stop another 3, 5, 10 days. So it was very bad for
new pilot this sort of training.
FRANK BORING:
We have to do that again because the siren.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1938/1991
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English; Chinese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
video; text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88_Yu-Wei_1991-03-23_v02
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Yu Wei
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-03-23
Title
A name given to the resource
Yu Wei interview (video and transcript, 2 of 4), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview of General Yu Wei of the Republic of China Air Force by filmmaker Frank boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. In this tape, Yu Wei discusses when he first heard of General Chennault and the American Volunteer Group, in addition to his cadet training in China and the United States.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e3c109ba2811415b13812513db471bfd.mp4
62054b9ab38b09bb34f500fa18f6a5a6
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3d717338a7e75fd438a16135ff69a6ca.pdf
077acdb16f658c1f8508742865e59e2f
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interviews
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Yu-Wei K'ang
Date of Interview: 03-23-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 1]
FRANK BORING:
I'd like to begin, if you give us some background… before
you even became a pilot. What were you doing and what was
your background?
YU WEI:
Actually I was born in a merchant family, my father doing
cotton business. When I was nine years old my father went to
northern part of China – from Shanghai, I was born in
Shanghai. That's when I fear the Japanese oppressors. In [?]
there were concession, the Japanese had their own territory,
the British and the French, those were force. We were just
like the second class citizens, from the Japanese, the Chinese
were nobody's. So then I decided that we must do something
about it. Of course, the paternalism really undermined all the
young students. When I was 17 years old the Japanese war
started July 7th. The same year I was engaged in the
underground of the Japanese activities. We just [?] the young
students somebody came over here, they say we must do
something. So then we bomb the largest Japanese department
stores, we bomb the Japanese schools, and we execute some
of the traitors, the Chinese walk [?] for the Japanese. I was on
the wanted list, then I had to escape, so all the way go to
Chunking to General Kai-shek because we feel that he was a
leader to lead us to fight the Japanese. That's a little bit of my
background. But I remember that I left Hinching [?] a year
�after the Japanese invasion, that was in 1938. I remember
when I was sitting in my classroom, at least half a dozen
times I saw a group of Japanese bombers training the Japs
with bombs loaded under the belly. They flew out, in a couple
of hours they were back, the bellies were empty, so the bombs
were dropped somewhere, on our army or civilians, you see.
So then I decided that the Air Force - I'd got to try everything
to join the Air Force, to fight against the Japanese. It was as
simple as that.
FRANK BORING:
Once you made the decision, what was your trip like to make
it to Chunking?
YU WEI:
That was quite an experience. When I was [?] the Jap to bomb
the department stores, [?] my girlfriend, her father was some
sort of minister, and her mother just passed away so she is
mourning. But that day I saw her all made up - girls shouldn't
wear those colorful dresses, so I knew she was in war activity.
Then a couple of days later, she was wounded by the
Japanese and the policeman - we were working the British
concession. The British police chief, the Chinese know the
girl's family - warn her, you'd better get out or I'm going to
have to keep you in custody to protect you, and he said your
boyfriend is also wanted. So the two of us decided to leave
for Chunking. We headed up from Tientsin to Shanghai, to
Hong Kong, and we organize a group and we took a boat to
Hanoi, at night, and took the train from Hanoi to Kunming.
There I then joined the Chinese Air Force. There was no
chance to [?] Air Force so I joined the Air Force Academy as
a [?] officer. About a year later I was graded on the top list
and I was assigned to a regiment. I didn't think they would
send me out to the front to fight the Japanese, so a buddy of
mine, the two of us were from the same city. Fortunately, the
Air Force Academy was right beside our artillery regiment
headquarters, so we're walking in and see a big sign that said,
the Director of Education, Chinese Academy School or
�something, so I just knocked on the door and there was a
tough looking officer sitting there, so we went in and saluted
him and said, "Sir we came from Gold Coast and we'd like to
join the air force, that was our original intention, but we did
not have a chance. We join the Army Academy and we
graduate, however, we'd still like to join the air force, that's
our intention." That officer looked at us, without a word, he
picked up the telephone and he said, "Operator, send [?]." He
slammed down the phone and looked at this document. The
Flight Surgeon came in and he said, "These two young
officers, you give them a physical examination." I passed this
exam and I was in the Air Force, this is the same thing. That
officer, I think he was a Lieutenant Colonel, not a full
Colonel yet. He was a General type of man, the General of
the Chinese Air Force.
FRANK BORING:
We're going to have to run through just the part about the what we need then is, if you could talk again about the arrival
in Chunking, the fact that you couldn't get into the Air Force
Academy, and then you graduated with top honors in the
Military Academy and then you were stationed next to that in
the [?].
YU WEI:
Then I escaped from Tientsin to Shanghai with my girlfriend,
my classmate. I was already eighteen years old, and we
escaped from Tientsin to Shanghai, Hong Kong, to Hanoi,
into Kunming and we ran out of money, so then during then,
the Chinese Air Force School was not recruiting the young
officers, so then I had a chance to enroll in the Military
Academy as an Artillery Officer. After one year - I left
Tientsin on the 1st October - I enrolled in the Academy on the
1st November, I graduated before Christmas of 1939, then I
report to my regiment - Artillery regiment - I was assigned. I
looked at the regiment set up - they only had 81 motors. I
don't think this is the way to fight the Japanese - I don't see
any sign that we would be sent to the front to fight against the
�Japanese, so then I reported to the Regiment Commander, we
work hard, and fortunately, the Air Force Academy was right
beside our regiment headquarters. I walked in and I saw a big
sign that says, Director of Training Department or something,
so I knocked at the door. There was a young officer sitting
there and looking very tough, and brainy looking officers, so
we salute to him, a snappy salute and we said, "Sir we came
from Shanghai, Tientsin, we would like to join the Air Force.
We did not have a chance, now we have just graduated from
the Academy as a 2nd Lieutenant, and we would like to
dedicate ourselves to the Chinese Air Force." He looked at us
without any answer. He picked up the telephone and told the
operator to send the Flight Surgeon, Captain [?], I remember
the name. So Captain Good [?] came in and took us out and
gave us a physical examination. I was passed in the Air Force
the same day. That officer happened to be General of the
Chinese Air Force, General Tiger Wong. I think he was made
a Lieutenant Colonel or something.
FRANK BORING:
You mentioned that the Artillery Regiment only had 80 some
odd motors, and you didn't feel that they were going to be
going to the front. Can you give us a better idea of why you
thought that this unit was not to be transferred over? Was it
just the motors or was it just the…?
YU WEI:
I was trained in [?], a big kind of Snyder [?], and I didn't see
any Snyder's [?] or military [?] in that regiment. My original
intention was to join the Air Force because, like I told you I
see those Japanese bombers when they were loaded with
bombs and come back with empty bellies you see. So I told
myself and my buddy, we were to grab the first chance to get
into the Air Force, no matter what the cost.
FRANK BORING:
Can you describe your introduction to the Chinese Air Force,
so to speak. Here you are, you're eighteen, nineteen, twenty
years old maybe?
�YU WEI:
Nineteen, almost twenty.
FRANK BORING:
First time out of your home, really. Can you give us your first
impressions and your first early dealings with the Chinese Air
Force? You've always wanted to do this and now, here you
are!
YU WEI:
Of course, in about a few months we were sent to the east of
Kunming, a place called Yunnanyi for basic training, we
called this [?], not even a whale tail, a whale's [?] you know, a
bi-plane. That was open canopy, we wear goggles and so
forth. Then we had rigid training with American ?* pilots,
and we had about 18 something hours, just about - we finish
our training and I still remember clearly - you'd better listen
to the story - Colonel [?], he was our chief instructor, he was
still in Taiwan. Every damn time we are up to the flying, he
would have us line up, and raise hell out of us. He talked to us
for two hours. But that day, he had a real bad cold, "He said,
go back to the barracks." and that time we saw a group of
planes approaching the airport. We heard about American
new aircraft, we thought that was new American aircraft. We
were [?] they stopped to shoot, that was Japanese aircraft.
Every single airplane lined up was shot and burned to pieces,
and luckily, Colonel in Chief did not give us after flight
instructions. We all landed in the ditch. Otherwise my class there would be few left… clearly so fortunate that he had a
real bad cold, he couldn't even talk you see. He saved our
lives.
FRANK BORING:
What was your reaction as a cadet who was flying these
airplanes, feeling that sense of pride in mastering it, what was
your reaction to see all those airplanes shot?
YU WEI:
We were furious. Someday we'll get even with them, that's
the [?] I told myself. There was no warning [?], no
�information, we didn't know what was going on. So they just
started to shoot about what 30-40 planes, it's so frigid you
know, you light a match it might burn you, but ……
FRANK BORING:
What was your - learning to fly and seeing the state of the
airplanes that you were flying compared to the Japanese
planes, what was your reaction to the fact that your airplanes
were sort of old style, World War 1 and the Japanese were the
new ones, what was your reaction?
YU WEI:
During that period, I was a cadet. I was not in the combat, and
of course, there were no shutters over the head of the pilots,
we know something about it. There was no match with those
American Hot Three*, Hot Two biplanes, to fight against
Japanese [?] or even Zero, so that was the first part of our
combat, air combat in the late '30's, really give the Chinese
Air Force some very, very hard time. However, I remember
the 14th of August, 1937, we were still able to shoot down
about 10, 15 Japanese raiders over Hong Shunks [?]. So we
set up the 14th as Chinese Air Force Day.
FRANK BORING:
Before we get into the battle part, I'd like to get more details
about the training and the period of time that you were
training, because there's very little information about that.
YU WEI:
Then, of course, after our basic training aircraft was all [?]
and destroyed, we were stuck with those old aircraft, no
gasoline I guess. Then all of a sudden we heard the
government has some sort of agreement with the United
States Air Force to train the Chinese pilots in the United
States, so then we start to freshen up our English, to prepare
to be sent to the United States. Then, that was already in
1940, then in 1941, you know the Pearl Harbor? I remember
clearly, we were flying a BT13, when the BT13 was the basic
- pilot training - the basic training when it was three stages.
Primary training was [?], basic training BT13, advanced
�training more faster aircraft. We were flying those BT's and
all of a sudden American [?]. We start war, we bombed Pearl
Harbor. We didn't know where Pearl Harbor was we had to
look in a map to find out. Then we knew American start war
with the Japanese. We would have friends, internationally,
especially the United States.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
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Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
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1938/1991
Contributor
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Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
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video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
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English; Chinese
Type
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video; text
Identifier
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RHC-88
Coverage
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1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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RHC-88_Yu-Wei_1991-03-23_v01
Creator
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Yu Wei
Date
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1991-03-23
Title
A name given to the resource
Yu Wei interview (video and transcript, 1 of 4), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview of General Yu Wei of the Republic of China Air Force by filmmaker Frank boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. In this tape, Yu Wei describes his background before becoming a pilot and his introduction to the Chinese Air Force.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
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video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c07421cde92d0987cd4dd240e30be68f.mp4
8bf0bf11a896e804c3cff1d156ba24a5
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ce8d84cc928abc936a143a8cff5ebae0.pdf
508b280ee2d456382ad29c3a13d3d41d
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Cold War Era
Gord Youngquist
2:03:35
Background information (00:07)
Born April 12th 1956 in Wheaton, Illinois (a small suburb of Chicago) (00:10)
He lived there till he was 4 and then moved to Fennville, Michigan (approx
1960)(00:12)
He attended School in Fennville (00:20)
In Illinois his father worked as an editor for a magazine publisher. When he came to
Michigan he worked as the chief engineer at John Thomas Batts
He finished high school in 1975 (1:16)
After graduation he attended school at Farris State University (Approx 1975-1977)
(1:18)
He decided March of 1977 to go into the Coast Guard (1:30)
He Joined the Coast Guard in order to get the sea time needed to upgrade his
captain’s license. (1:40)
At this time he also wished to avoid the conflicts occurring in Vietnam [although
these were over by then](3:05)
He also did not want to hurt or kill people (3:25)
Did not support the political reason for or action of Vietnam (4:01)
Basic Training (5:30)
He attended boot camp in Cape May, New Jersey (Approx. 1977)(5:40)
His first station had been at Group Saint Petersburg in Saint Petersburg
Florida(5:45)
Boot Camp lasted 18 weeks (5:57)
The training was geared to educate as well as mentally, emotionally, and physically
prepare the trainees for their service (6:15)
Boot camp had only taken place on land (6:39)
Military discipline had been somewhat in forced during his training, but not to the
same degree that is seen in the marines or army. (7:00)
When entering training he was deemed an E1 or a Seaman Recruit. (7:42)
Much of the early training had been for first aid and emergency medical
preparedness (8:00)
Of the men he trained alongside, approx 80% had been of “no class,” had worked
before, and had at least graduated high school. (8:55)
�
Most men who entered boot camp had stayed with the program until its completion.
(9:55)
In between his first assignment and boot camp, he had been given 1 week's leave
(10:43)
He started out as a buoy tender. Here he scraped slime off of buoys used for
navigation (11:03)
Service in Saint Petersburg (11:00)
The buoys had first been secured on a ship he worked on before the maintenance of
the buoys could begin (11:45)
He was a buoy tender in Saint Petersburg Florida for approx. 2.5 years (approx
1978- 1979 or 1980) (13:02)
An off base apartment was aloud for Coast Guard members as there had been no
base housing (13:21)
His pay as a jr. Coast Guard man had been approx 140 dollars a week (13:50)
If men were willing, breakfast, lunch, and dinner could be provided on the ships.
However at liberty time (3:00 PM) many of the men would leave the ship. (14:40)
He served “1 and 3” duty. Every third day a man was required to stay on aboard the
ship for a night shift to serve watch while the ship was docked. (15:20)
These watch sessions were typically fairly calm while in Saint Petersburg (16:00)
Women Coast Guard members had been stationed in St. Petersburg but not on the
boats. They typically had more administrative office type jobs. (16:45)
In spite of the negative opinion the public had over Vietnam in this era, the Coast
Guard did not seem to have any difficulty recruiting (17:37)
He desired to go transfer to a small boat station. These locations had been
responsible for search and rescue as well as law enforcement. To do this he had to
complete a request.(18:40)
Small boat stations were also seen to have more of a family bond. (19:12)
Service at Cortez Station (approx 1981) (20:00)
The first small boat station he served at was Cortez (19 miles west of Bradenton
Florida) (20:04)
35 to 40 men had been stationed at this station at the time (20:55)
2, 41 foot ships, 2, 30 foot boats a small boat (approx 20 feet long with an Avon) had
been stationed at Cortez (21:01)
While at Cortez he responded to a shrimping boat call in which a man aboard had a
heart attack. (22:15)
His station did very little bad weather rescue as the ships Cortez were not capable of
handling violent storms. (23:55)
�
Most of the drug trafficking law enforcement things he had done had been the sizing
of marijuana (25:00)
Most of the sea crimes he encountered had fairly compliant suspects who did not
fight back when apprehended (25:40)
He served at Cortez for 8 months (Approx mid late 1980 to early 1981)(26:50)
Service in Sarasota Florida (Flotilla 8-4 approx 1981) (26:55)
Next he served in Sarasota Florida on an 82 foot patrol boat (26:55)
While serving here, one could either live on the boat or live In an apartment (27:30)
Having one’s own space (such as an apartment) was highly valued. (28:00)
This ship often patrolled past the 12 mile limit looking for vestals suspected of
carrying illegal contraband (28:28)
While on patrol he seized 30 tons of illegal contraband. (29:37)
Many jobs on the ship could be done by any man on the ship regardless of ranks.
(33:55)
During the extensive periods his ship would spend out at sea (1-13 days at a time)
encounters with suspicious ships had been rare. (33:59)
Search and rescue had been the primary priority. (34:25)
1 out of 4 calls to the crew had been a search and rescue job. (34:56)
Had been a Thatcher for approx 13-14 months. (approx 1981-1982)(38:30)
At this point his time had been up in the Coast Guard. However, he had been
transferred back to the group for administrative liaison for the Coast Guard
auxiliary (38:40)
The last 72 hours of his Coast Guard duty he applied to work a new session aboard a
283 foot ice breaker. Here he was given the position of the ships 3rd Quartermaster.
(38:27)
Before being placed on his new assignment on the ice breaker, he had been given 2
weeks leave. (40:01)
He left 5 days early to accommodate his living arrangements in the areas in which
the ice breaker would dock. (40:28)
Service aboard the ice breaker (1982) (40:30)
The ice breaker left port and would be out at sea for a period ranging 4-6 months
(40:45)
The ships tasks included assisting scientist in conducting arctic surveys, as well as
making routs for supply ships to reach areas such as Tully Greenland where an air
base had been located. (41:47)
His motive for working on an ice breaker had been to get more sea time and
experience. (41:40)
�
Because of the sea time and experience he acquired during this period of his service,
he was able to obtain an unlimited Masters License when he was out of the Coast
Guard (42:08)
Often the first thing that sailors would do aboard the ship was find their own little
“nook” or personal living space (42:59)
His experience on this ship exposed him to particular environmental sights
(mountains, native peoples, glaciers) that he otherwise would not have seen.
(43:18)
He got seal skin and ivory as a souvenirs from some native arctic peoples. (45:30)
On one expedition scientist aboard the ship had excavated ice and found plankton as
well as leaf growth in the glacier. (46:15)
It was not odd to have at least three scientist on board the ship during any
particular voyage (47:40)
He served 25-30 voyages aboard this vessel (47:58)
He served in the Coastguard for 10 years (approx 1977-1987)(48:05)
On his final voyage aboard this vessel, the ship hit a growler (portion of an ice berg
located under water.) the following morning he spotted some brown matter in the
water. Using a lead line and a rag to inspect the actual damaged area, he was able to
deduce what was leaking was diesel fuel. As a result of this the ship was shut down,
as running out of fuel in a remote location would be disastrous. (48:17)
When having to go outside the ship on to the ice, some men would be armed with
M16s in case of a polar bear attack. (52:00)
After a quick patch was made on the ship, the vessel went to a shipyard in Scotland
for repairs. (52:42)
The improvised repair to the ship had been done so well, that the men in the ship
yard in Scotland said they could not have done a better job. (53:06)
The man doing the repair (Bill) got his name in the Guinness book of world records
for the most north repair. (53:08)
One trip so the South Pole was made while he served on this vessel. (54:28)
This trek to the south pole took 6th months. (54:50)
On a voyage this long, finding peace and quiet or time to one’s self was immensely
valued. (55:28)
The purpose of the South Pole voyage was simply to break ice to make a way for
supply vessels. (25 feet thick sheets of ice needed to be broken.) (55:47)
The most ice the vessel ever cracked while he served was 35 feet thick. (56:08)
Five miles a day was considered fairly good progress. (56:40)
His sleeping area had been by the portion of the ship used to for cracking ice and it
had been very loud (57:10)
The South Pole was incredibly dry and very little if any precipitation was seen.
(58:48)
A thermal pack was used by seamen in order to protect their skin from the harsh
arctic conditions. (58:28)
The ship compiled weather information using wet bulb thermometers, dry bulb
thermometers, barometric pressure, wind measurements, sun angle, and existing
�
condition. Most measurements could be taken from inside the ship but the
thermometers had to be checked outside the ship (59:53)
Even in the fridge temperatures of the South Pole the engine room had
temperatures of 120 degrees. (1:00:52)
For all men aboard the ship, many of the environmental challenges they simply
adapted to or “got used to” (1:01:15)
When making South Pole expeditions, the ship rarely stopped in ports save for the
stop at the Panama Cannel during the voyage down from the northern Hemisphere.
(1:01:40)
One of the places the ice breaker did stop during its South Pole voyages had been
the most southern tip of South America. (1:02:04)
However when sailing around the areas by the horn (the most southern tip of South
America) the ship had been primarily in open ocean (1:02:46)
It was very important to stay focused while on duty, otherwise one seaman could
end up injuring another. (1:03:53)
Dramatic Accounts from service in Florida (Saint Petersburg) (1:05:34)
On September 10th 1979, while stationed in St. Petersburg Florida, he had been
involved in a motorcycle accident. Resulting in 4 compound fractures in right leg his
leg, a split sternum, 2 breaks in his hip, and a skull fracture. He woke up from a coma
2 weeks after the accident. (1:05:50)
After the accident, doctors wanted to amputate his leg. (1:06:44)
Unwilling to stay in his hospital bed, he was placed in epileptic cuffs which he
snapped. This lead to a physiologist stating that his will to live was unbelievably
strong. (1:06:50)
In an effort to save his leg, the Coast Guard sent him to Tampa Florida where the 3rd
best orthopedic surgeon in the U.S. at the time would operate on him. (1:07:37)
At the time of the accident he had been stationed in Saint Petersburg, however was
on liberty (1:08:23)
Was in the hospital from September 10th 1979 to May 5th 1980 (the date he walked
on his own with a healed leg for the first time) (1:09:28)
The Coast Guard considered having him retire from service as a result of the
injuries. He had been sent to New Orleans (approx February-March of 1980) for a
medical survey to figure out if he was to be discharged (1:09:57)
He had been informed about a new procedure called a bone growth stimulator.
Showing this to his doctor, he decided to go through with the new procedure. A
week later, Gord had become the 3rd person in the U.S. to have the bone growth
simulator implanted. He also went through the procedure without anesthetic.
(1:11:11)
6 weeks after the surgery, the bone had been filled and completely healed. (1:13:38)
He accredits the opportunity to have this procedure down largely to being in the
right place at the right time and luck. (1:15:05)
�
After his leg had healed he was placed back in Saint Petersburg and was placed on
full duty. (1:15:55)
He then served temporary duty on a steadfast (210 foot parole boat.) (1:16:09)
The Blackthorn Disaster (January 28th 1980) (1:16:55)
The Coast Guard cutter Blackthorn had been originally in Tampa Florida at a ship
yard and underwent a total switch out of all crew members. (1:17:18)
The Blackthorn had been outbound from Tampa were as the Capricorn had been
inbound to Tampa. During this time a large storm enabled either captain to see.
During the storm the Capricorn side swiped the Blackthorn and tore a hole approx.
80 feet long approx 40 feet from the water line (1:17:44)
6 people of a full crew (approx 282) survived the Blackthorn ship wreck. (1:18:35)
At the time he had been on body recovery. (1:18:55)
In spite being in a cast and having crutches at the time of the wreck (January of
1980) he had been called aboard to assist with body recovery.
The 3rd day after the Blackthorn ship wreck, divers had located the vessel. (1:20:39)
The Harbor in Tampa Bay had been closed as a result of the ship wreck. (1:21:05)
The bodies had been recovered after 3 days in salt water. The skin of the deceased
had been pale while with bite makes from fish. While attempting to remove a body
from the water, Gord grabbed a hold of the bodies arm. While trying to pull him in
the boat, the limb detached from the body and it had been dismembered. (1:21:35)
As a result of this he had been subjected to a large amount of emotional distress as a
result of no knowing how to react. (1:22:30)
To get the bodies aboard the ship he suggested they use the crane aboard the ship as
well as a helicopter basket (a gurney) with the flotation devices removed (1:23:30)
After being placed aboard ship, the bodies were placed into black unmarked body
bags that were then stacked at the bow of the ship (1:24:42)
The stack of bodies had been approx. 6 feet tall 20 feet across and 30 feet to the
bow.(1:25:12)
It had been very emotionally traumatizing for him to have this experience and yet
not know any of the men or their names. (1:25:24)
After the bodies had been removed from the wreck, the Commandant of the United
States Coast Guard gave all the men meritorious commendation medals to the men.
But Gord pushed it off and let it fall to the floor. He did not want to be given a medal
for picking up dead bodies. (1:26:00)
The Blackthorn event was the most prolific nautical disaster that he had
experienced or knew of during peace time. (1:27:59)
The media coverage of the Blackthorn ship wreck had been fairly extensive with
helicopters and boats covering the event. (1:28:33)
The base, however, had been restricted from media coverage and the men evolved
in the rescue we’re told not to say a word. (1:28:55)
�Experience with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) (1:30:00)
To this date he has not held a job over 30 days, due in part to the psychological
effects his service has had on him. Some jobs we’re held for a week others for an
hour. (1:30:13)
He had checked into a mental hospital in his local area (Michigan) and then went to
the Veterans Administration (V.A.) hospital in Grand Rapids Michigan. (1:30:34)
When at the V.A. hospital in Battle Creek he had been diagnosed with post traumatic
stress disorder (approx. 1990) (1:30:54)
He noticed he had been emotionally instable. He often would have short burst of
anger or would cry over something he saw on television. He would often even cry
and not realize he was crying. (1:31:28)
He very much cherishes the relationship of understanding that he shares with other
veterans. (1:31:57)
He believes that the returning veterans from the Iraq War will over whelm the V.A.
system due to PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) (1:32:55)
He states that soldiers who wish to come home and live anything close to a normal
life again need the V.A. for help. (1:34:00)
He believes that the amount of help that is available for veterans who return from
service is fantastic. (1:34:35)
Because of his traumatizing experiences he had woken up one night to find that he
had dragged his girlfriend out of bed in his sleep. (1:35:34)
He states that the memory of his service is still very much still there. (1:36:25)
He rid his home of all his “personal protection devices” (hand guns, knives) due to
the fear that he might hurt someone accidentally or that he might be
“triggered”(1:36:59)
He had been called in to court for trespassing charges, which he has no memory of
ever doing. (1:37:22)
In World War II post traumatic stress disorder was called combat fatigue (1:40:25)
The Sunshine Sky way Bridge Disaster (May 9th 1980) (1:41:00)
the Sunshine bridge disaster and the Blackthorn disaster happened very close to
one another (1:41:20)
during this incident, he served in the operations center handling the coming and
going of ships (1:42:21)
Approx. 6 vehicles had fallen into the water from the bridge. (1:42:58)
He had been in high school at the time of the Fitzgerald ship wreck (1:47:25)
�Addition information (1:48:00)
He had been discharged due to his inability to serve his duties. This had been largely
as a result of the experiences on the Blackthorn disaster. (1:49:23)
He reports that even his physical movements where altered and difficult. (1:50:10)
A friend of his who had PTSD would often simply stare when having attacks and
during these periods he was not to be bothered until he recovered himself from the
episode. (1:51:45)
His PTSD has lead to “rages” or periods of sudden violent outbreaks. (1:53:16)
The triggers for his PTSD can be as wide ranging as the absence of his electric bill to
a broken speak plug. (1:53:30)
Some times Gord can feel the attacks coming on, other it is almost instantaneous.
(1:55:00)
He feels the need to have a certain amount of money readily available to deal with
potential fines or court orders that may arise as a result of his PTSD condition.
(1:56:11)
Due to his condition he is unable to operate an automobile. This has lead to many
inconveniences (1:58:15)
On his dresser he has approx. 15 bottles of medication in order to help with cope
with his situation. (1:59:20)
Best therapy he has had was at the V.F.W. ((2:01:11)
Isolation for individuals with this condition is dangerous (2:01:08)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Veterans History Project
Creator
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Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
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1914-
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
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Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
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eng
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
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RHC-27_YoungquistG1287V
Title
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Youngquist, Gord (Interview outline and video), 2011
Date
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2011-11-02
Description
An account of the resource
Gord Youngquist served in the United States Coast Guard from 1977 to 1987. During this period Gord served in a wide variety of positions and locations from Cortez Florida, Sarasota Florida, Saint Petersburg Florida, as well as aboard an ice breaker that did voyages in both the Northern and Southern hemispheres. In this interview, Gord recounts his time in all of these location, particularly Saint Petersburg Florida, where he helped on both the Blackthorn as well as the Sunshine Bridge disasters. Gord also accounts the repercussions his service has had on him as well as his struggle living with PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.)
Creator
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Youngquist, Gord
Contributor
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Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
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Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
United States. Coast Guard
Language
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eng
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Text
Moving Image
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
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Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
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application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/77dbc87293a6f2fa75f4caa7dd9e657a.m4v
f551e738e9b37977900c2426821b7485
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a3e5546e8add0b8ee4b875f405a5e192.pdf
1d9e42aa8709f77334d199fe1ed23adc
PDF Text
Text
ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW
LOIS YOUNGEN
Women in Baseball
Born: October 23, 1933
Resides: Eugene, Oregon
Interviewed by: Frank Boring, GVSU Veterans History Project, August 5, 20010,
Detroit, Michigan at the All American Girls Professional Baseball League reunion.
Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, December 9, 2010
Interviewer: “To begin with what is your full name and where and when were you
born?”
My full name is Lois Joy Youngen and I was born October 23, 1933 in a little town of
one hundred people called Ragersville, Ohio.
Interviewer: “What was your early childhood like?”
Full of activity, I had a wonderful childhood and my mother was an elementary
schoolteacher, my father was a principal and subsequent superintendent of schools and he
also was coach and he also was a varsity baseball player. So, I think maybe that’s where
I got some of my ability. 45:03
Interviewer: “What was your school like? You said it was a small town, was it a
small school?”
We had moved to a little larger town where I started first grade. The first few grades
were rather uneventful and by the time I hit the fourth grade we had moved because my
father got a better job and it was about then that I started playing with all the
neighborhood boys because there weren’t any girls in the neighborhood and if you
wanted to play outside, and there’s no television remember, and other than reading books
and trying to learn how to play the piano, which I didn’t do very well and they finally
gave up on me, I played outside with the boys.
1
�Interviewer: “Give us an idea what the lot was like. What was your neighborhood
like for example? Was it a big back lot? Was it a full diamond where you play
baseball? What was it like?” 45:57
A yard and a back yard and then a little later on when we moved again and my father got
a better job, we were in—all the houses were on one side of the street and across the road
it was farmland, it was pasture field, so we took our paper bags and our one ball, you
only had one ball and you reused it, and our bat which had copious amounts of, I guess
it’s electrical tape, it’s black and it also had a screw and a bolt through it, but that was it
and I remember that the boys weren’t too excited about my wanting to play, originally
when we moved to this new town with the pasture field across the street. 46:40
Interviewer: “How old were you roughly?”
Let’s see—probably ten, ten years old.
Interviewer: “You’re the daughter of educators, small town, you’re playing the
piano, but you don’t want to play, you’re reading, which is wonderful, and how did
you hear about this boys’ baseball going on? How did you happen to get involved
with that?”
Well, there were a lot of boys in the neighborhood and they always just played ball over
there, so I wandered over naturally. I was interested and I asked about playing and they
said, “You can play right field or catch”, and being rather intelligent I said, “well, if I
play right field at this age, no one will ever hit the ball to right field because when we
choose up teams, which you often do in elementary school, the last person to be chosen is
the one who gets to play right field”, so I said, “I’m going to learn how to catch.” I knew
2
�my dad was a baseball pitcher and if he could throw to me some, I could really become
proficient as catcher. 47:44
Interviewer: “Did you have a glove?”
At the time I don’t know if I had a glove or not, but I know my father was supportive,
which is important, so we went out and bought me a glove. I don’t think it was a
catcher’s glove originally. Later on I got the real thing, but I’m not quite sure.
Interviewer: “So in the early days in elementary school, why baseball as opposed to
anything else?”
Well, we’re talking about the nineteen forties and individual sports were only for those
elite families that had money and could have private lessons. There was no physical
education in the schools during the forties, there was some extra, what would you call it?
Varsity sports, there were some varsity sports floating around, but baseball was one of
those things that every small town had a baseball team. That had maybe changed some,
but I think there were enough remnants so you could play with a limited amount of space,
a limited amount of equipment and still have a very good time. 48:48 All the small
schools that I went to, there was no football, no track and field when you look out and
soccer was something you played in PE, I think for fifty years before it caught on as
being a really important kind of sport around the world, but maybe never will catch on in
this country, we’ll see how that goes. Anyway, it was a remnant of a sport that
everybody could play you could join in. Everybody had a little softball game at a reunion
or at a picnic. You played softball, but this was baseball with a hardball that we threw
overhand. 49:24
3
�Interviewer: “Did you have access to sports either by newspaper or radio? Did you
know what was going on in the world of baseball?”
I had a grandfather that kept his ear to the radio to listen to the Cleveland Indians games,
so we had no television, but we did have radio and I think our family was always so busy
trying to earn a living—we had gardens in the summer and I had odd jobs that I did and
every kid had chores to do around the house. Some of my friends at that age, in
elementary school, got an allowance and other students had to work and they were doled
out certain amounts of money if they asked for it and that kind of thing. I’ve lost your
question. 50:13
Interviewer: “You actually already answered it in terms of did you know about
baseball from the outside.”
Oh yeah, the radio and newspaper, yes, yes.
Interviewer: “Did baseball from the very beginning or when did baseball become
more important to you than just kind of playing?”
Well, that’s an interesting question. That’s a very interesting question. By osmosis I
suppose, I don’t know if I ever realized when. I got to the point where we gathered more
boys to play on our team and then we started to call ourselves the “Town Team” and then
we walked to other small towns five miles away, no soccer moms to take us anywhere,
we took our one ball and our one bat and we would walk and we would play and then we
would walk home. They would walk over and we would kind of pre determine, it was
usually in the afternoon because we didn’t have jobs or anything and we were free to
play, and I know that one summer, I think I probably was in junior high school by then
and we did this for three or four years, and finally they came down, the boys, the team,
4
�came down to my house and they told me they didn’t want me on the team anymore
because the other towns teams and kids were laughing at us because we had a girl on the
team. 51:40 All I know is I think I suppressed that to the point where I don’t remember
it, but my mother said, yes, I was there and I heard them ask you to do that, you were
devastated she said, but it took them about a week before they came trudging back down
and asked me to join them again because they had lost two games and they wanted me
back on the team. I said, “well, that proves that winning is more important than having a
girl on the team”, so then I sort of graduated from their team. The boys got older and we
did have a varsity baseball team in that town and there were a couple of women’s softball
teams in the larger cities, Wooster, Ohio and Ashland, Ohio, so in the summer the
manager stopped by, I don’t know how they found out about me, but they came to me
and asked if I would like to play. I didn’t know if I was good enough, but then I played
softball with the Wooster, Ohio softball team for a year and then I played with Ashland
probably two years. 52.42
Interviewer: “A couple questions between all this, what was your father’s and
mother’s reaction to your playing baseball with the boys?”
Nothing, I mean it wasn’t negative, and you know the research shows, all the early
research shows, that the father is supportive and supportive of their daughter playing.
There’s no problem and my father was always supportive and my mother probably didn’t
disagree at all because she was a horsewoman in her early years and rode a lot and grew
up on a farm and farm women had to help and get out in the field, so she knew what
physical work was like. She was a little bitty woman, but she use to drive when they
made hay and would drive the horses, so I don’t think she thought there was anything
5
�wrong with it and like I said, dad was supportive. They didn’t get to very many games,
but they had other things to do, but I think they were supportive. 53:37
Interviewer: “So a scout of the softball team somehow heard about you and came
along and said, “I understand you’re a pretty good ball player?” You played for a
year or two years?”
I played with the Wooster team one year and Ashland was closer and I think that was one
of the reasons, I can’t think of any other good reason, why I went from one to the other. I
went to play with Ashland and I was in high school by now, I was in high school.
Interviewer: “And you were still a catcher?”
I am still a catcher.
Interviewer: “Do you have a catcher’s mitt now?”
I have a catcher’s mitt now.
Interviewer: “This is a more difficult question I know because you’re delving back
quite a few years, but did you have any indication what so ever of what you wanted
to do with your life at that point? Did you want to be a teacher like your parents?”
54:31
I always knew I would go to college, that was never a doubt. That was instilled in me
from the beginning, I mean as long as my folks and I communicated about anything, I
knew I would go to college, so I knew I had to do well in school, which I did, but I
wasn’t sure what I wanted to do after I got there and what my major might be at the time.
Interviewer: “Baseball isn’t even in the consideration because it’s something you’re
doing because it’s fun?”
6
�Yes, doing it because it’s fun, yes, definitely. Fun, F U N, fun and winning too
occasionally.
Interviewer: “Did you feel like you were pretty good?”
I don’t know, I don’t think I ever really—I don’t think I thought much about that. I was
interested in the fact that we were a team and that every time we won the team won. As
women, I don’t think we spent much time thinking about statistics and who hit the
winning RBI that high. I think it was the team winning and we were interested in the
game as a team game. 55:41
Interviewer: “Now, you’re in high school so your morning you go to school, you
come back in the afternoon, when are you playing baseball?”
Probably on a night, like a Friday night and we might be playing on a Sunday afternoon.
Interviewer: “This is a neighborhood thing, so you got the bleachers full of locals
and those people egging you on with rah, rah, rah?”
It was the thing to do to, and here we’re talking about the nineteen forties and people
didn’t have a lot of money and I think we were much before television was popular. You
might have one or two people in town that had a television set. I remember going to visit
somebody in 1948 and they had this snowy television set, but I think there wasn’t a lot to
do. You could go to the movies, pay seventy-five cents and go to the movies, maybe it
was a dollar by then, or you might go out and watch, I’m sure we weren’t the only
softball team in Ashland, the men probably had one or two teams, and they still had
businesses that sponsored men’s softball teams, so I still think in the nineteen forties
softball was probably a pretty popular activity for a medium sized, we’re talking about
twenty-five thousand people or twenty thousand people, something like that. 56:58
7
�Interviewer: “Can you remember, and how did you hear about Pearl Harbor?”
I was sitting with my father in our den and we had one of those Zenith tall radios, you
wouldn’t know about that, sorry, and it had a big round dial on it and so on.
Interviewer: “I actually do know about that.”
You do? I wasn’t going to—and we were in Ohio and it was in the morning, I’m sure it
was in the morning, it was a Sunday morning, I don’t know if we had been to church and
come home or we hadn’t gone yet, I can’t tell you the exact time, but my dad was
listening, I don’t know when it got turned on or anything, but I heard my father call my
mother in and they sat down and I think I kneeled, I don’t know if there was a chair there
or an ottoman or sofa or something for me to sit on, but I get the impression I was
kneeling down and cocking my head and listening and we heard Roosevelt come on the
radio and talk about the date that would live in infamy. 58:10 From there on it sort of
changed everything.
Interviewer: “How did it change around your immediate world?”
All the good teachers went off to work in the war plants, so there was a shortage of
teachers and I don’t know if you know this, but maybe you do, but once a woman got
married, in the nineteen thirties, she no longer could teach. Married women could not
teach, so until World War II, married women were pretty much prohibited from teaching
unless they had a special kind of certificate to do something, but in general married
women, if the husband taught, the wife couldn’t teach. So, my dad came home and he
was the principal of a fairly good size school, and he had been losing all his teachers—
you could make five times as much—you know that’s still the way it is, you can make
five times as much money doing something else as you can teaching. 59:13 Everybody
8
�was leaving to go to the was plants, so what happens is dad says, “Mom, you got to go
back and teach third grade, or fourth grade, or fifth grade, but you got to get back in.
They are dying for good teachers”, and my mother was a very good teacher, so she got
geared up to go back and teach and those were the years when people only had one car or
one truck, you didn’t have two. Our life changed immediately after we started in 1941
and we had war drives and war bond drives and we collected scrap metal and I know we
had scrap medal. We had recesses where we got our physical activity and remember I’m
a lot younger than I was from your previous question, but we didn’t have any organized
teams during that time that I’m aware of. 00:07 I had a paper route and I needed some
spending money, so after we lived there a couple of years I got a paper route in that
small town.
Interviewer: “When did you first hear about the league, The All American Girls
Professional baseball League?”
I’m not quite sure whether I read about it, and remember this is 1951, actually it’s 1950
when I first went to visit a cousin in Fort Wayne, Indiana. I don’t know when I heard
about the league, but Fort Wayne had a team and I went to visit my first cousin that lived
there, and she and her husband had two children at that time and they said to me, “would
you like to go see the girls play baseball tonight?” Well, that’s a no brainer you know,
YES, and I’m sitting there and I’m sixteen years old and we’re watching the game and
Fort Wayne had quite good attendance in those years and I’m sitting there and we’re
getting to the seventh or eighth inning and I have no idea who won the game or even
played, all I did was I turned to my cousin and I said, “you know, I can do that”, just like
that, right out of the blue. 1:24 That surprised even me because I don’t think the
9
�majority of women in that generation are terribly aggressive and I surprised myself by
saying that, and by golly my cousin got on the phone that next morning about eleven
o’clock I had a tryout with Max Carey, our manager, our hall of fame manager and least
four other Daisies were there and he put me through the paces for about an hour and he
said, when we were wrapping things up, “Lois, we will be in touch with you. We will
contact you probably around the first of the year”, and this was probably in August or
maybe July of the previous year, so I went back home and finished my junior year and
started my senior year in high school. 2:25 Along about January third or fourth I got
and invitation to come to spring training in Alexandria, Virginia, Fort Wayne Daisies.
Interviewer: “What was your parents’ reaction?”
I think they were both very positive about it. I remember my dad talking to my mom and
saying, “well, she’s going to go off to college at the end of this year. She’ll have a
chaperone and that’s more than she’ll have at college. We better send her off, it might be
a good experience for her”, so they were kind of positive about it. 2:57
Interviewer: “I want to walk you through very carefully, with a lot of detail, what
was the preparation to go, packing and the whole bit, what you’re thinking about
while you’re going through this. I don’t want to just suddenly show up there, give
us an idea of what it was like.”
Well, first of all during those years, every senior class had been collecting money for
fifteen years to go on a senior trip. We picked potatoes and we mowed lawns and we had
car washes and you know, some of the same things they are doing today and we ended up
with quite a bit of money, so our senior trip was planned to go to Washington D.C.
Alexandria, Virginia is real close to Washington D.C., and I thought, “well, if I can plan
10
�this and work this out, I can go with the class trip on the train, I don’t know if I had been
on a train before or not, I can’t remember, and we would go down—I think we left from
Akron, Ohio, went through Youngtown, through Pittsburg, on down to Washington D.C.,
this was my thinking, and then I could go to Alexandria and the rest of the seniors were
going to go to New York because they had all this extra money and they could go to New
York and spend it freely in New York City for another four days or so before we had to
go back to Ohio. 4:20 It was standard for every small high school in Ohio to take a
senior trip, so I’m thinking, “maybe I can maneuver this so I can get to Washington,
spend some time with my class, go see some of Washington D.C. and then get myself
over to Alexandria, Virginia, which is just across the river”, so I’m thinking, “well, the
first thing I have to do is I have to get out of school for about three weeks in addition to
our senior class week”, so this is a big chunk and whether you believe this or not, you just
didn’t get out of school. You had doctor’s appointments, dentist appointments, other
kinds of appointments after school or on week-ends. You just weren’t allowed to walk
off the school grounds. So I’m thinking, “how am I going to maneuver this?” I’m
talking to my teachers and I got an ok from all of them except one and I talked to the
superintendent and it was like getting special dispensation from the Pope to get away for
four weeks. 5:23 I jumped through all the hoops that they could possibly put in front of
me. I had one teacher that I had to send homework back to and I promised religiously
that I would do that. Everybody else said, “go with our blessing, and make the team “,
even the fellow I was going to the senior prom with said,” make sure you’re back here for
the senior prom”. Anyway, so I arranged it with the Fort Wayne Daisies, Ernie Bird was
their business manager and we wrote letters, we didn’t call back in those days, long
11
�distance phone calls cost a lot of money, so you wrote letter and I think they probably
cost three cents for a stamp too, so we wrote back and forth and we made the
arrangements that I would go spend some time with my senior class and then go over
Alexandria for the tryout for the Fort Wayne Daisies. 6:12 So we got on the train, there
are fifteen in my graduating class, nine boys and six girls, that’s a small town, and all I
remember is all the mothers and fathers were there and you would think we were going to
cyber space or someplace, and they gave us sandwiches, we had food, we had this long
trip to go to Washington D.C., I think it took eighteen hours, it wasn’t that far away.
Anyway, I remember eating sandwiches, we left like in late afternoon, and we went
through Youngstown and Pittsburgh and all the Bessemer burners in the steel mills were
going strong and it was an absolutely gorgeous site to see them lit up the way they were.
That’s one of my vivid memories of taking that trip. The rest would be seeing the
monuments in Washington D.C. and meeting with our local Senator or Representative
and having our picture taken with them, which every small class does on their little
sojourn to Washington D.C. Then they left and went over to New York City and I went
over to Alexandria, Virginia. 7:20 This is where, and I don’t know if you want to
include this, but you may know that Peanuts, Mamie ”Peanuts Johnson” had an article in
the New York Times not too long ago, and she’s an African American woman, and we get
asked this a lot if we speak to groups and so on, and since Jackie Robinson didn’t get into
the majors until 1947 it was obvious that there was a problem with having African
Americans in our particular league as well. Well, here we are in 1951 and according to
Mamie, she came to Alexandria, Virginia during that time that I supposedly was there. I
never saw her, but she indicated that she came, she came with another girl, another
12
�African American girl, and they wanted to try out and whoever the management was at
the time that met them and talked to them, told them that there was no place for them in
the All American Girls Professional Baseball League. 8:20 Now, the girls like myself,
none of us that I have talked to ever have any interaction with them or knew that she had
even come and we feel bad about that, but there wasn’t really anything we could do
about it when we didn’t know about it, so that’s something that we have been thinking
about and talking about some. Anyway, we never did have, to the best of my knowledge,
any African American player in our league. So, back to what we did there, I got the
opportunity, I’m not quite sure why, but I got picked out of the group to do some public
relations things and we were supposed to play in Baltimore. 9:06
Interviewer: “Let me back you up a little bit. You got there for tryouts?”
Yes, so I’m trying out.
Interviewer: “Ok”
I’m hitting, I’m running, and I’m throwing.
Interviewer: “In the movie you get this idea, and I know it was in the very
beginning of the league that you saw from the movie, but you walk out onto the field
and there’s all these women out there, girls playing, is that similar to what happened
with you?”
I don’t remember, to be honest, but I don’t think so because there were two teams and the
object in the 1951 spring training was to have two teams, the Battle Creek Belles and the
Fort Wayne Daisies, all have spring training together and then you would play exhibition
games around, I think it was Katie Horstman talking about being in North and South
Carolina and so on. Well we played—we had an exhibition game scheduled in whatever
13
�the Baltimore Stadium was at the time and we also were supposed to play in Griffith
Stadium. So this was part of—we practiced in Alexandria and we didn’t practice very
long before we started playing, supposedly, exhibition games. 10:04
Interviewer: “You’re the new kid.”
I know
Interviewer: “what was that like?”
I don’t remember very much about the tryouts. What I remember about it was that I
whisked off to be on the radio and whisked off to meet with Maury Povich, he was the
sports supreme or one of the major sports writers in the country at that particular time. I
had my first glass of wine, don’t tell on me, at one of the lunches we got feted at you
know. We were taken to lunch and I had a glass of Rosé and I have no idea who ordered
it, but I didn’t, but I drank it and I think I enjoyed it.
Interviewer: “You are very articulate and I would imagine, because of your
educational background with your parents and what not, some of the girls may or
may not been able to speak as well as you. If they are going to get you on the radio,
you have to be able to talk and that’s probably what happened.”
Well, we were trying to get them to come out to the games. I the idea we’re playing this
exhibition, come out to the game. I do want to tell you about—we got rained out of
Griffith Stadium, but the one picture I have, other than with Jimmie Fox who came later,
is I have a picture of Clark Griffith, the grand old man of baseball, and myself standing
next to him and another rookie I have never been able to find out, and then Max Carey.
11:25 The four of us are there and Max Carey has the handle of the baseball bat and
Clark Griffith has the other end of it you know and I am there in my dress, you know
14
�dresses, we must wear our dresses, and it’s an 8x10 and it’s been chopped and cut and
pasted, but it is my picture with Clark Griffith and Max Carey and it’s the only one I
have. The interesting thing is, I made the team and the girl next to me didn’t and I don’t
have any idea who she is, but that is, that’s my picture. 12:01 The second thing I want
you to know, in the world, as far as that goes, is that we went, we were in Griffith
Stadium and I go and take batting practice and I stood up there and I said, “Joe DiMaggio
stood here”, and I’m standing there and I turned around on the other side and I said, “Ted
Williams stood here”, and we didn’t get to play, we got rained out, but at least I had the
opportunity to stand there in Griffith Stadium at home plate. I never thought about
getting behind the mound like a catcher would. I was thinking about hitting for whatever
reason and now that I think about it in retrospect, I didn’t think about getting down there
and getting into a catchers position like Jim Hagen who caught for the Cleveland Indians.
12:41
Interviewer: “Now, by 1951 was there the—did you have to go through the charm
school and all that kind of stuff?”
It is interesting that you mention this. If you talk to groups of people, especially younger
people, one of the things they want to know is, “was that charm school really for real?” I
have to say, “yes, it really was in the early years”, and most of the gals that went through
it thought it was worthwhile. They didn’t pooh pooh at it and they didn’t think it was
terrible. I’m sure there were some that did, but the few that I’ve talked to thought they
learned some valuable lessons going through the charm school.. I think that was Mrs.
Wrigley’s idea in the first place.
Interviewer: “What about you? By the time you got in?”
15
�This is what I tell my audiences, “by the time they got to 1951 they had given up on us”,
so that’s my response. They were more interested in the ability of the players. Some of
those were still maintained through the whole twelve years, but charm school was not one
of the— 13:44
Interviewer: “What were some of the rules, the ground rules, when you started if
charm school was not in there, what are some of the things they told you? This is
what you have to do as a player.”
We always wore a dress or a skirt when you went to the ballpark, when you were out in
public; you were invited to a luncheon, home from the ballpark. You lived in private
homes and usually there were two of us to a private home. I think there might have been
some occasions over the years where there would be four. I’m looking forward to seeing
my Blue Sox roommate here at this reunion. Anyway, the pants thing, nope, no pants, no
slacks and even by then women were starting to wear slacks more and blue jeans were
more common as far as everyday dress. 14:33
Interviewer: “Kathryn Hepburn in particular really made it.”
Took over as far as that was concerned, but that rule was sacrosanct, we did not wear
pants period. Now, if we were going to the corner grocery store or something, if we
happened to be lucky enough to have a day off, of course if it was pouring down rain, you
could wear your jeans. You were very careful about how you presented yourself to the
public that was still very important. You didn’t have to worry about make-up, you didn’t
have to worry too much about the length of your hair, that was something that was
included in this charm school business and make-up, yes or no depending, most of the
time you put it on after the game not before. I remember the idea of dating—I don’t
16
�think—I’m going to get side tracked here, but the movie A League of Their Own, has this
wonderful scene at the “Suds Bucket”, I don’t know if you remember, but where
Madonna does her thing and I’m thinking, “oh, if we only had a “Suds Bucket” when I
was playing ball, I would have been there at every opportunity. 15:40 I love to dance
and I don’t remember my date ever asking a chaperone whether they could go out with
me and I dated quite a bit.
Interviewer: “Well, let’s start at the beginning, you’ve gone through the spring
training with the Daisies and the key thing here, I think, is for us to understand, and
remember we’re trying to get as much of your experience as possible and not the
league, but your experience. You had left home to play in the league for how long?”
Four years
Interviewer: “Right, but for your first season, a season is what?”
I think that first year Peoria was in the league and both of the Wisconsin [teams], so we
had eight teams that first year and then it went to six and eventually it went to five, but
we started out with eight teams. First of all I went back home, went to my senior prom
and graduated from high school all in one week and then I became a Daisy. There I am
in Fort Wayne, Indiana, my roommate is Pat Scott and she’s another rookie and she’s a
pitcher and a very good pitcher. I’ve got my Daisy uniform on and somebody picks me
up in a car to take me, I didn’t have an automobile or anything and I had no camera and
by the way we didn’t have cameras, if we had cameras you’d have all kinds of things to
use. The only cameras around were the little Brownie box cameras, no one had a camera
to take any pictures of each other and that’s why we’re short on pictures. The girls keep
asking about former players pictures and none of us had any cameras to take any pictures,
17
�let alone a movie camera. So here I am again, I’m back on track. 17:24 At the ballpark
and Max Carey is our manager we’re playing seven days a week with double headers on
Sunday and a seven inning first game. I think originally they had a nine inning second
game, but the switched and changed that to—I think because it got a little too much
with—we played a hundred and eighteen games that first season, so we had seven innings
and seven innings and then you got on the bus and rode all night to Rockford, Illinois and
then you played on Monday night and then you played seven more games and so on.
Interviewer: “This is overhand at this point?”
This is overhand, yes, this is 1951 and overhand started in 1948, so we went to—we were
definitely overhand pitching. 18:12
Interviewer: “This wasn’t a problem for you because you started out overhand and
as a catcher you were catching overhand anyway.”
Yup, well I loved it because I have short fingers you know and the baseball is small.
Nine inches is very different from a ten inch or twelve inch softball you know and my
softball would every once in a while fly off into right field when I’m trying to throw to
second base. So here we are, I’ve got this wonderful little nine-inch ball that I can get a
hold of, so I really enjoyed playing with a regulation nine-inch ball.
Interviewer: “What did you think of the uniform?”
I didn’t give it too much thought, but the reaction, I think, on the part of a lot of the
players in the beginning, and very much like it was in the film, was, “you mean I have to
play ball in that dress?” I think once they started to play—I think the biggest problem
was the strawberries, I don’t think it was—well, the other problem, and I’m going to
digress here a little bit and go back. By the time I got in the league we’d already made
18
�them into mini skirts. 19:09 If you look at the original uniform it’s got like three yards of
material in it. It’s got all kinds of extra skirt and it was to be worn exactly, according to
the older women, it was to be worn exactly one hand length above the knee. Well, that’s
pretty long and then you try to bend over and pick up a ground ball, you’ve got mostly
skirt and no ball, so you know these gals—our players are smart cookies and the first
thing they did was say, “we got to modify this”, so I talked to some of the older players
and they said was one of the first things they did was they got safety pins and they would
safety pin all this extra material of to the right and to the side, so it was more straight up
and down. By the time I got to the league they had really wised up I’ll tell you, we had
the first mini skirts. We took out all of the extra material, tightened it up and we lifted it
up so it was right below the tight line, so you could completely spread your legs without
any problem. Now, it’s still a one-piece dress and another thing, they wanted us to keep
it cinched in so it looked like we had a waistline you know. 20:20 Have you ever tried
to catch with your arms and your dress tries to go up in the air? It’s practically
impossible, so I kept—we would loosen everything when no one was watching you
know, we’d loosen this decorative belt that we had, which didn’t serve any real purpose
except being decorative, so we’d loosen that up and we looked pretty great out there
because according to everything you’ve read and so on, showing a lot of leg is ok, and we
got to do it in the fifties when it didn’t happen all the time. They were covered up below
the knee, and there were a lot of good-looking legs, so it served the purpose.
Interviewer: “What can you recall, if not your first game, what’s the first memory
you have of a game in the very beginning?”
19
�The first memory I have is being sent in to catch the last inning or the last two inning of
the game and hopefully we were ahead. I would get to go in because I was the rookie on
the team. We had two other very good catchers, and I’d get to catch batting practice
often for experience, and that first year I just sat on the bench and watched everybody.
21:31 Like I said, I’d have to go out and warm up the pitcher or go out to the bull pen
and warm up the reliever that was going in or maybe you got in to catch the eighth inning
or the eighth and the ninth inning for experience, and I know that first year, in 1951, Max
Carey said, “well, if we send her off to Kenosha for August, or part of August”, and
Kenosha was a team that was folding at that time and there last year was in 1951, if I
remember correctly. They were traveling by car and all of their home games were all
now away games, they adjusted that somehow, so I got to play a few games for Kenosha.
I don’t remember much about that; it was only for about a couple weeks. 22:18
Interviewer: “Your first season, this is going to be a touch question because it’s—I
have to keep in mind that you’re a very young, seventeen your first year—Was
there any sense at that point, maybe later it’s different, but was there any sense at
that point, the first season, that this was going to go on anywhere beyond that year,
or next year, playing?”
I don’t think anybody thought too much about it, this was my first year, maybe some of
the older players who had been in the league for four or five years, had a sense, when all
of a sudden they’re thinking about, “we don’t have the turnout in some of these towns
and we’re not going to have a team in Kenosha next year”. Dropping from eight to six-that would have been a clue to me if I had been thinking about that.
20
�Interviewer: “I guess what I’m trying to get at is, today a young boy, even to a
certain degree a young girl, can dream about being a professional, not necessarily
baseball, but you’re playing professional ball, but did you see yourself as a
professional ball player?” 23:24
I knew I was going to college, so after the 1951, first year, I took what money I earned
and paid my college tuition. I did that for four years, so in essence my four years as an
all American paid for my Baccalaureate degree. So there and I think my parents were
very supportive of that, but that’s the way I used the money. I never saw myself or as my
one hat or one role in life as being a professional baseball player.
Interviewer: “Another tough question, and this as you look back—I look at my own
life and as a seventeen or eighteen year old, did I really know what I wanted to do
kind of thing, but did you understand that this was something very unique and that
this baseball team was something very unique at the time or was it just like at the
ballpark when you played in the back lot with the kids, it was fun, but was there any
sense—ok this is paying for my college, but was there any sense the this is really
something great?” 24:32
At least you didn’t ask me the question; did we know we were being part of baseball
history?
Interviewer: “I’ll wait until later for that one.”
I mean no, no, I don’t think there was ever a player that played in our league—my
question to you, do you think you’re going to get the Pulitzer Prize sometime? No,
everybody that I knew loved to play and the only time you didn’t love it was when you
got a strawberry. Another time when you didn’t love it is when it rained in Fort Wayne
21
�and they poured gasoline on the field and burned the field in order to get rid of the water
and you had to go out and play in that and slide in that and field ground balls in that.
There were times when you didn’t—or you were very, very tired. Sometimes in August
when it’s very hot and muggy like it is the last couple of days here in Michigan, it got
pretty hot and when it got muggy we got pretty tired. 25:25 Remember, we didn’t have
any weight lifting or any weight training, we might have had some batting practice in
mornings at home, but very seldom on the road. We had no batting helmets, so if you got
hit in the head, you got hit in the head you know. We wore men’s equipment and I was a
catcher and I was forever—I don’t know what kind of tape it is, the shiny stuff.
Interviewer: “Duct tape”
Duct tape, there you go, I couldn’t think of it. I was forever cutting the chest protector
down so I could lift my arms, and the shin guards came halfway up my thighs because
that’s all we had, we had men’s equipment. Our bats were men’s bats and I couldn’t find
a bat that was small enough around, Ted Williams would have loved me because he
wanted that really small handle there, and I needed that because I had short fingers and
the weight was thirty-five, thirty-six pounds [ounces], that’s Babe Ruth weight for a bat.
26:32 I think I probably would have been a pretty good hitter if I ever could have found
a bat. We’d go into a sporting goods store to buy our bats right off the shelf and there
weren’t that many. Excuse me, I’m getting carried away, but the playing of the game
was made a little difficult because of the fact that there was nothing much out there,
really, for women, but no, the question you asked, did anybody think they were going to
be, or where were they going to be in history, how important was women’s baseball
compared to others? I do know though because somebody asked me, Jean Faut asked me
22
�this, we were the first professional women’s team sport league—first professional
women’s sport period. The golf people have challenged it, the PGA has that, but they
didn’t come into being until 1948, 1948 I think Just a tidbit to throw in there, but I don’t
think any of them ever, I never heard any talk about it, we has more fun singing on the
bus and deciding what we were going to eat or what we were going to wear to something.
27:45
Interviewer: “How many seasons did you play?”
Four, I terminated the league; I finished them out in 1954.
Interviewer: “I want to start now in getting into the actual games, but I want to do
it season to season as opposed to jumping—if you want to jump in there it’s fine, but
I’m just thinking, because your experience actually grows as you get better season to
season and I assume you did, so how was the first season?”
I did get better, you’rer right. It was very enjoyable even though I didn’t play very
much. I got to meet and get acquainted with my teammates and Max Carey was a
wonderful—he was a terrific base runner, so you learned a lot about base running from
him and he was a good teacher and I was very content to be where I was and continue to
learn. I never thought about jumping up and down and saying, “I want to play”, which is
something they would be doing now days, the men would be doing anyway or, “trade
me”, one of the two. 28:49
Interviewer: “I did one of the interviews in Milwaukee and I asked this question
about the managers. Did the manager treat you as a woman baseball player or did
the manager treat you as a baseball player?”
23
�As a baseball player, let’s face it, look at society during those years; the men were in
charge of everything, religion, economics, political, and were in charge of baseball.
There were men managers, the men were the umpires, the men drove the bus, but they
treated us as baseball players. That doesn’t mean they didn’t treat us with respect, they
respected us as women and were concerned about things like we were up all night riding
the bus. The manager was very concerned about that and the bus driver, helping us with
out luggage and be careful that is a bad step or something. They were very aware that we
were women, but as far as the game was concerned, we were treated like ball players.
29:51 No yelling, they were very professional about—the professional players like
Jimmy Foxx and Max Carey and so on, they were very professional in their interacting.
The no crying in baseball, I know that’s Hollywood proverbially, but still there are people
who think that actually happened and if you made a mistake, in some ways, your
manager would maybe call you off to the side or into the dugout and talk to you
individually or after the game was over they might call you in. I only know of one
incident in four years of a manager, in a relatively public area, having words and I don’t
remember what it was about at the time, but they were very professional and I know as a
catcher it was all right for me to kick a little dirt on the plate and to maybe kick a little
dirt on the umpire’s shoes. 30:56 You had to be very careful what you said to him you
know. I didn’t talk much to the umpire and I didn’t talk much to the other players.
Interviewer: “An interesting thing came up in the interviews that I’d done in
Milwaukee and was that a lot of you learned how to play baseball, as you said, just
playing with the boys. You never had professional training per say, but the ones
that I interviewed said that amateurs contributed a great deal because they told you
24
�little tricks or little things that professional baseball players learned in their
training, but since you were kind of a new thing, did you get any kind of tricks or
hints about catching that helped you become a better catcher or did you just learn it
on your own?”
Not too much because none of the—none of my managers were catchers. If they had
been I probably would have, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t listen. I learned a lot about
base running and learned some things about covering the base and certainly—we had
infield practice and we’d have-- the ball would be hit in from right field and you have to
hit the cutoff player you know and bounce it in on one bounce to the catcher. 32:05 We
all knew the basics, I don’t know where we learned them, but we knew the basics. The
manager might, some managers more than other managers, some had practice where
others—it seemed to be individual, from the gals I talked to, it seemed to be
individualized. Different managers worked on different things. I know one of the things,
because I wasn’t playing regular, I didn’t get—I got about two swings in for batting
practice because, you know, we had to get the regular players and hitters out there, and
we didn’t have much bating practice before—the managers I played for, they just didn’t
do that and I know darn well that I could have hit much, much better, every year I got
better at everything, and I know if I’d had more hitting practice and had a bat that I could
hang on to and didn’t fly out to the third baseman every time it flew out of my hands.
33:01
Interviewer: “When did it change for you, in the second season or the third season,
where you were playing more? You said you were sitting on the bench most of the
time.”
25
�I sat on the bench and the next year was 1952 and Jimmy Foxx, we had six, I think six
teams, you can go back and check on this, but I think we dropped down to six teams that
year and for the next two years I think we were at six teams, and Jimmy Foxx was the
manager and don’t let anybody tell you that he wasn’t just a wonderful man, I adored
him. He was renascent, well the exact opposite of Jimmy Dugan. Now, he was an
alcoholic and I want the record—everybody knew that, but if you’re a health educator,
you know that alcoholics can drink quite a bit and it doesn’t show, so he’d go home and
do his drinking at night and he would show up at the ballpark sober the next day and he
was a great big guy, so I suppose he could drink a lot. 34:01 I don’t know, but I think
everybody that knew him, and Bobby Doerr lives in my part of the world out in Oregon,
and I’ve talked to him about Jimmy Foxx and he said that the drinking is what caused his
demise as a baseball player or helped add to that, and we just loved him. If we were
lucky he would take batting practice four or five times during the season and he would
hit the ball over our fence, over a pasture and out over a four lane highway, but we
couldn’t get him—we just couldn’t get him to do it very often and we had to beg him, we
had to grovel to get him to take batting practice, but we all adored him, so most of us feel
kind of bad that sports writers and movie critics have written that the Jimmy Dugan in A
League of Their Own is a thinly veiled Jimmy Foxx and every chance I get I like to say,
“you think what you want, but that’s not the Jimmy Foxx that I played for”, so that kind
of bothered me. 35:10
Interviewer: “In the second season did you start to play more?
I played some, not a lot, we still had two good catchers and we had lost two good teams
from the league. I was always the squirt, about 110 pounds, maybe 115 at my top weight.
26
�I wasn’t a home run hitter, and I was vying with six foot gals that were pretty good sized
and I couldn’t get a bat that I could hold.
Interviewer: “I think that was the reason. When did it change?”
1953 I started to play. I was traded to South Bend and I guess they needed a catcher, I
don’t know, but I was traded to South Bend and started to play regularly.
Interviewer: “Once again It’s unfair, but can you remember the feeling—because
you’d been sitting on the bench for two seasons and now you’re, you got a good gig
going on here, you got money coming in, you’re going to college and all, but there
had to be a difference in your emotions when suddenly you’re now at south bend
and now you’re playing more. Tell us about that, how did that feel?” 36:16
Absolutely, and I guess all of a sudden I realized that, “yeah, I belong here”. Maybe
before I didn’t think that I quite belonged. I belonged in all these ways, but as far as
being a ball player maybe I didn’t quite belong and all of a sudden I started to play and I
started to be able to throw the ball down to second base alright and I got knocked on my
whatever I suppose ten or twelve times and got knocked out a couple times, but I
managed to make the put out at home plate and it’s not easy when you see a six footer
coming at you. Anyway, I took a few of those knocks pretty well, hung onto the ball and
I think my feeling was coming that I really belonged. 37:14 My hitting was coming
along, I wasn’t a great hitter, and that didn’t seem to bother me. I thought it would come,
but my throwing was better and I always knew in my head what was going on, more so
than some of my teamates who couldn’t remember how many outs there were, but you
know, I always was on top—the mental part of it wasn’t any problem.
27
�Interviewer: “I was a pitcher, a lousy hitter, but such a good pitcher, this is little
league and I’m not anywhere in your league, and I’m talking as if we’re both
professionals here, but I do know what you mean. There is a certain amount of
compensation your players give you if you know that you’re a really good pitcher or
a really good catcher. You don’t hit as well, but we got hitters and we’ll take care of
it. What was the most challenging thing about being a professional catcher as
opposed to this sandlot kind of catching? Or maybe there wasn’t a whole lot of
difference, I don’t know.” 38:11
It’s hard to compare because you’re older and have had all these other experiences that
kind of filtered in here. I think part of it might be the idea of playing everyday rather
than just on occasion and you tend to build on that fact that maybe you learned something
last night and you still remember it. Excuse me, but rather than, “I made that mistake two
weeks ago”, because you didn’t play that often, plus the fact that we’re older and
hopefully you learn some things, you read the paper, you maybe read some things about
Ted Williams hitting you know. I mean, different players had a different, I think,
approach. 39:06
Interviewer: “Did you have any sense of how good you were?”
No, not the foggiest and you brought that up earlier and one of the things that I think is
interesting is I have always felt rather uncomfortable knowing I was on a team for four
years, but never contributed heaps and gobs. That I never was, although I played
regularly, especially the last two years and played well and the last year I hit 284 which is
in the top one third or yeah, in the top one third of all the players that played that year,
and I was up there and I feel good about that, but I always felt that I wasn’t quite worthy
28
�and I don’t know quite how to explain this. I never really thought about how to articulate
it, but I’ve always thought—yes, I guess that would be a way of expressing it, that I
wasn’t as good as some of these other players and therefore, I’m not worthy of being
included in the group and yet so many people, people that aren’t just my friends who
might tell me something like this, “hey, you made the league, you made the team, you
played, what else is there?” It’s just a “get a hold of yourself and quit thinking that way,
that thinking is obsolete, it doesn’t make any sense”. 40:34
Interviewer: “A lot of people didn’t make the league and another thing that is
really a good part of that movie, is that scene with Geena Davis and Tom Hanks
where she says, “if it was easy everybody could do it”.
That’s the scene I quote to everybody, throw out that” there’s no crying in baseball” and
get to the heart of the game of baseball. “It just got too hard”, she said and he said, “it’s
supposed to be hard, if it wasn’t hard everyone could do it, it’s the hard that makes it
great”, and to me that is the summary, the overpowering scene in that whole movie that
sums up what baseball is all about. 41:12
Interviewer: “I use it in my writing classes. I teach writing and I said, “If it’s not
hard anybody could do it”. I use that same example.”
It’s the hard that makes it great and to me that is the scene from the whole movie that the
women in this league should take with them to share with friends, relatives, and admirers,
fans, and forget that, “there’s no crying in baseball”, which is a clichéd kind of thing that
got thrown in there so Tom Hanks could do a little acting. I guess he did it well because
according to Pepper Paire, one of our catchers in the league who was one of the advisors
on, or whatever kind of a role she had as far as the film was concerned, she said, “they
29
�had to have ten takes of that with Tom Hanks because the cameraman would break up
every time he said, “there’s no crying in baseball”.
Interviewer: “So you just got to take it realize, “well, that’s Hollywood”. 42:12
Absolutely, but I’m sorry, but that’s the real clincher in that film, that’s my scene.
Interviewer: “I agree”
So I got better every year, all right? 1953 I’m catching with Fort Wayne, I mean with the
South Band Blue Sox and I catch a perfect game. Jean Faut, who pitched as probably one
of the all time greats in our league, she could play any position, she could hit the ball out
of the ballpark, she could pitch, she had all the pitches in the world, she pitched a perfect
game on September 3rd, 1953 and we beat the Kalamazoo Lassies four to zip in
Kalamazoo on their home turf. 42:56 I’m laughing because I have no idea if she called
the game or if I called the game, but I’m sure she did call her own game, so I take very
little credit for that other than the fact that I managed to hang on to the ball, all right?
People keep asking me who called the game and I said, “well, when Jean Faut’s pitching
she calls her own game and whether or not I called the pitches she liked and she didn’t
you know.
Interviewer: “Yeah, but something you might have noticed in baseball, you have to
have a catcher with the pitcher. It’s essential to the whole thing and she may have
been a great pitcher, but unless somebody was on the other end catching it, I’m
afraid the game would just not be the same.”
Anyway, that’s my big claim to fame. That and hitting one home run in Grand Rapids.
43:42
Interviewer: “I want to hear that one, please.”
30
�I hit one home run in 1953 with South Bend, I think it was—no, maybe it was 1954—all I
remember is that I hit it over the fence, it was in Grand Rapids and it was my one home
run and it might have been in 1954, I think it was in 1954. Anyway, 53 or 54 I got my
one home run in there. 1953 I caught almost the whole season for South Bend and that’s
where the perfect game came in. We were playing a shorter—I think maybe six teams,
but we weren’t playing as many games and attendance was starting to fade and I think, if
I’m not mistaken, when I reheard Ken Burns, they had it on PBS again, they talked in
there about the fact that in the early 1950’s all the major league ballparks had problems
with attendance. 44:42 So, I’m trying to put together—people want to know why we
quit playing and I hadn’t realized that the attendance had really fallen off in major league
baseball in the early fifties. So, it stands to reason that we wouldn’t have people coming
out to the ballpark either. They didn’t give any reason for it, but they said there was a
major drop off in all major league attendance during the early fifties, so obviously that
happened with us as well, so 1953 the season was shortened, 1954 I got traded back to
Fort Wayne. I didn’t ask why, I just picked up my stuff and went and Bill Allington was
out manager then and you’ve probably heard his name because he’s the manager in the
league over the years that everybody said, “if somebody cracked open his skull little
baseball would roll out”. I mean, he was a taskmaster, I don’t know if he did spot
quizzes, but he had the rulebook and he expected you to know the rules, he did a lot of
teaching and he was the manager of the infamous Rockford Peaches for many years and
then he came to us in 1954. 45:45 He said, “Lois, I’ve got a catcher, you’re too fast
you’re going to be a left fielder”, and he made me into an outfielder. I didn’t –well, I
roamed well and I was pretty quick, I had to make up for my other lack of strength and
31
�other things by being fairly quick, so I could read where the ball was going to go and
made some pretty good catches out there and I could throw fairly accurately and in left
field you didn’t need a cannon for an arm, only the right—that’s the interesting thing
about playing right field, you know when you’re a kid it’s the worst place to be and when
you’re in the majors it’s the best outfield position because you have to have the greatest
arm and you got to hit and do other things. Left field was a good place for me because I
could handle everything he needed and I hit. There’s something I want to share with you
if we’ve got time. I’m playing left field and we’ve been playing with this ten inch ball
and all of a sudden, around the fourth of July, I think it was a couple of days after the
fourth of July, it was around the fourth of July in 1954 and all of a sudden we get a nine
inch regulation baseball. 47:00 I’ve talked to the gals and I can’t get anybody for the life
of me, able to explain whether or not they ever really practiced with a nine inch ball. It
just sort of appeared. We got to the ballpark, the baselines had been extended, the
pitchers mound had been moved back to sixty feet when we had been playing with it a
little shorter than that. Same old bats and same old uniform, but they moved the outfield
fences back and they kept playing with the distance so they could—I remember hearing
bill Allington say, “If you can hit a home run, we got to move the fences back”, but the
thing that I haven’t been really able to digest is how we could go from a major change
from a ten inch ball to a nine inch ball and change the distances everywhere and not ever
have practiced like two or three weeks before in the mornings or sometime with this nine
inch ball, but it just appeared and bingo there we are with a whole new game. 48:02 I
don’t know what the newspapers or the radio, we had those two venues, but no television,
but what they had to say about it. I would like to go back sometime and do some
32
�research to find out how it happened. I know it happened because of the fan appeal and
they wanted to see if they could bring some more people into the—I think most of the
changes that were made over the years were made primarily to bring more people into the
ballpark. Softball wasn’t a novelty, but boy, throwing it sidearm from a distance with a
smaller ball that’s kind of different. The second part of my theory, since I’m allowed, is
that these managers knew of the athletic ability of the gals they had playing the game. I
don’t think they ever would have tried to change the game if they didn’t think the gals
could handle it. 48:51
Interviewer: “How did it end for you? How did you find out that it was the end for
you particularly?”
Well, fortunately I was playing left field and I think it was around the sixteenth of
August, around the middle of August after we’d made this giant switch to the nine inch
ball, that somebody in South Bend, the catcher, got injured, so they asked me if I would
go back and finish the season because they needed a catcher. They were—we kept losing
the catchers, but anyway, I got shifted back and I said, “Well you know if they need a
catcher, I don’t think I have much choice”. I had to go and that was the year that fort
Wayne was just knocking the socks off the ball you know. They had Jo Weaver and
Betty Weaver Foss and Jean Weaver and these four hundred hitters and home runs every
time you turned around and locomotors on the base pad I’ll tell you that and so, I went
back and finished the season in South Bend. Now, Fort Wayne won the pennant and I
remember going back and I don’t know, I don’t think—they had a banquet or something,
but they did give me—I got a scrapbook and it says Daisies “54” and you know I’m not
sure—I got a couple of things that they gave to the players. 50:08 But I finished at
33
�South Bend and it kind of finished with a whimper and I’m not sure we did anything in
South Bend to end thing s up, but I’ll ask Mary, my roommate, my married roommate
with I don’t know how many grand kids she has now, but we’re rooming together and
I’ll see if she has any feeling about how we ended. It sort of ended with a whimper,
actually. Now the thing that probably didn’t bother me as much was because I was
getting ready to go, I got my degree now and I’m out in the world, I got another goal in
mind and I was fortunate enough that I was very successful in education and went on and
they were four wonderful years, don’t misunderstand me, but they’re not my entire life,
they don’t define me. 50:52 My four years don’t define me.
Interviewer: “That’s an interesting transition for my next question. You say it
ended with kind of a whimper, but you had a life ahead of you and you and you had
a very productive life ahead of you. A lot of the WWII vets that I’ve interviewed
and even some of the women ball players, say that they didn’t really think about
their baseball experience as they’re going through their life. Is that true of you too?
Did you tell people you were a baseball player when you were an educator?”
I did on occasion and the response was, “oh, you’re a softball player”, and you’ll get that
from everybody. No one knew who we were and where we were or what we did. I
wasn’t until Penny Marshall came out with the film and people were coming out of the
woodwork, former students and colleagues say, “Why didn’t you ever tell us you played
baseball?” I said, “If you had been listening, I did tell you that early on and you
responded with “you played softball”? And I never could explain it well enough to get
you to understand that it really wasn’t softball, it was baseball”, and once the film came
out—51:58
34
�Interviewer: “That’s my next question. What effect did the film have on you? I
don’t mean a critical review of the film, do you know what I’m talking about?”
I’m going to give you a critical review of it. I’m in Eugene, Oregon and I get a call from
a local newspaper, the head of the sports section calls me and he said, “ I would like to
take you to see the film and the first showing is Saturday morning at eleven o’clock”,
and at a local theater, and I said, “well”, my mother lived with me for twenty-two years
and she was still in good health then, so this is 1992, so I said, “yes”, and I obviously
hadn’t seen it and hadn’t been invited to any of the premieres. I’m way out there where it
takes a pony express to get to me and no one had ever bothered and I didn’t get to
Cooperstown to the exhibit because my boss was an Englishman and he didn’t think—I
suppose if I had said it was soccer he may have—or cricket, there you go, but he didn’t
think I should go. 53:03 I had to work with the guy for another eight years or so and I
didn’t think it was worth circumventing him to go to the Dean, which I could have done,
but I opted not to do that.
Interviewer: “It shows that you didn’t think it was that big of a deal I guess, huh?”
Well, I had to work with this gentleman for eight years and he was in charge and he could
have made life very uncomfortable for me for eight years. There we are back to the
movie, so I meet him at the theater and we go in. The first thing is the music you know,
overpowering music. I don’t know how many minutes we were into the film before I was
crying and in another two minutes I was sobbing. I sobbed, and I don’t mean cried, I
sobbed through the whole movie. Talk about embarrassed, losing my cool, I just cried
and cried my heart out. I just brought back everything I hadn’t thought about for—since
1954 to 1992. 54:03 It all came rushing forward you know, excluding the hyperbole, the
35
�feel of it, and like I just said, I just sobbed for—I sobbed through the end and then I was
embarrassed and he wanted to buy me a cup of coffee or something and my eyes were
two big red blobs here and I told him I was sorry and I was embarrassed, but it just
brought back this rush of memories and I’m sorry, this is just the way I reacted to it.
54:35
Interviewer: “How did that movie change you or change your perception of your
participation after that. You’re past the crying and the emotional element and now
you’re into day two, day three and the rest of your life. Did it have any effect on you
in terms of other people reacting? You said your students were talking about it and
stuff. How did it change you?”
A number of people wanted to go see the movie with me. They wanted to know, all of a
sudden there’s this big gigantic interest in this movie. It made lots of money because it’s
still being shown every two months or three on cable TV, so anyway, I went, I must have
gone eight times with different groups of people who wanted to go see the movie and
we’d go have ice cream or something afterwards and they could ask me about the movie
and then I got to—I was a chapter in a book and the university bought the book, that
chapter to put in their quarterly. 55:36 Then more people had a chance to read it, but
immediately after the film, I think I went seven or eight times with different groups of
people and I was considerably calmer and could explain what happened and then people
started asking me if I would come and speak to this group, the rotary, there are three
rotary’s in Eugene and while the film was still being shown I got invited to speak to a lot
of-Interviewer: “Were you at all surprised at all of this?”
36
�No, honestly no, because finally our story got told and it was the truth. Now, there are
some things that are out of order and probably the most significant is the fact that in 1943
we would have been throwing underhand and not overhand, but there was a germ of
truth, even Stillwell, you know I played for the Blue Sox and Jean Faut, the pitcher for
the no hit game, was married to the manager, Karl Winsch, and they had a little boy and
he traveled on the bus with us, but he was a little boy of the fifties and not the 1990’s, so
you never heard of him, you never knew that he was there, so they took some of these
ideas and did the Hollywood thing to him, which I could stand. 56:46 I’ve always said
that it captured, that film captured the spirit of the league and the spirit of the women that
played, the spirit of the game, those three things, the spirit of the league, the spirit of the
game that we played and the spirit of the women that played because not being nit
picking, I thought Penny Marshall did us just fine. 57:08 I was pleased with her film.
Interviewer: “Looking back now and for the record, Where do you think this all fits
into the whole scheme of things for—and lets get really big here, you’re an educator,
I’m an educator and we know that in human history there are moments, some of
them tragic, some of them great, some of them—you look at the time line of history
and there’s all these things. We’re blips on these things, but where does the All
American Girls Professional Baseball League fit into all of this?”
Well, I think we need to stop taking credit for being a pioneer in women’s sports. Title
IX is what did this for us. Title IX came along in 1972 and any parent that’s got a child,
male or female, that can get a college scholarship now, we can’t—you know if you’re
going to get $100,000.00 free scholarship to Stanford or Ohio State or Michigan or
wherever it is, it’s not to be sneezed at and that came with Title IX. 58:12 Also, the
37
�proliferation of other women’s professional sports came with Title IX because until
Penny Marshall got to us, nobody knew we even existed, so I see us a sort of a blip, a
very fond, warm, fuzzy blip or whatever you would like to call it, an anomaly actually
and I’m often asked if women belong playing with men’s teams and no, I don’t see that
because of lestosterone and lack of and levers, you know, they’re bigger, they’re
stronger etc., but I do think if the ever wanted to have an al American girls, Women’s
professional baseball team again, and there were enough women who were interested in
doing it, we have professional women’s fast pitch softball and most of those gals, that’s
the way the original All Americans got started. 59:06 Most of them made the transition
to the smaller ball and the longer distances, some couldn’t, but I don’t think we should e
taking credit, in retrospect, for something that really title nine, through federal funding
and balancing the men’s and the women’s varsity sports at the collegiate level, and the
high school levels, helped balance out.
Interviewer: “But you have to admit the number of women who credit you,
regardless of whether the film was there or not. I talk to athletes, women athletes at
our university. There’s a coach at our university who you were a major inspiration
to and knew enough about the fact before the movie.”
We may be an inspiration and I’m not saying that our story won’t inspire prospective
women athletes, and I think we do everything we can to be the voice as well as the face
of the AAGPBL speaking as often as we can, but yes, sure I would love to be an
inspiration to a group of Babe Ruth baseball ten year olds, girls, and boys.
Interviewer: “I’m trying to get my mind around that.”
38
�Interviewer: “Let me ask you the last question and I really appreciate you put up
with this for so long. You mentioned earlier about how you played baseball as a
child and you enjoyed it. You played the baseball as a professional with the idea
that you were going to go to college, you had a larger picture involved, but now,
looking back at that experience, and now you have pre-baseball professional
baseball after you watch the things you’ve accomplished that you’re proud of, this is
just one of them, I know that, but where does that fit in your life?” 1:02
Oh, it’s extremely important because I’ve been sports oriented you know, it’s right up
there with some other awards, alright? It was only four years out of my like, but it’s a
significant four years. I wouldn’t trade those four years for forty of some of my other
years, and it’s even better now that we’re older because we can embellish all those stories
that we’ve been telling over the years you know? You really did get to third base, but I
tagged you, no you didn’t, it was second base, what do you mean, you never got to third
base. It’s a significant part of my life. I simply meant—what I’m saying is it doesn’t
define my total life, but it’s a significant portion of it and I’m extremely proud of it. I
wear my ring with pride and thank god I had those four years and I probably would have
played four more if they had them because it worked out well being a teacher and coming
back and I was getting better. 2:10 That made me feel good.
39
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Interviews
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-58)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Sports for women
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives
Oral history
Baseball players--Minnesota
Baseball players--Indiana
Baseball players--Wisconsin
Baseball players--Michigan
Baseball players--Illinois
Baseball for women--United States
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401
Identifier
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RHC-58
Format
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video/mp4
application/pdf
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Language
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eng
Date
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2017-10-02
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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RHC-58_LYoungen
Title
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Youngen, Lois (Interview transcript and video), 2010
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Youngen, Lois
Description
An account of the resource
Lois Youngen was born in a small town in Ohio in 1933. She grew up playing baseball with boys from her town, and played on a boys' team for several years before switching to a girls' softball team while in high school. She learned about the All American League while visiting a relative in Fort Wayne in 1950. She joined the league the next year and played for Fort Wayne, Kenosha and South Bend as a catcher and outfielder until the league folded in 1954. She used the money she earned as a player to go to college, and eventually earned a doctorate in Physical Education and taught at the University of Oregon.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (Interviewer)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Video recordings
All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives
Baseball for women--United States
Baseball
Sports for women
World War, 1939-1945
Baseball players--Indiana
Baseball players--Wisconsin
Women
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2010-08-04
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2e8ddfe60ff446e37caf04dd638cab4f.mp4
89f805a717e12a3be00a1b5fb5a3f064
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/896a94fe90d035df154cd7af8d5fbf65.pdf
910c702ef10c2862e84e6f2c58e8d34e
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
World War II
Thomas York
Length of interview (00:47:19)
Background Information (00:00:12)
Born in Baltimore, Maryland in July of 1927
Moved to Oklahoma in 1929 (00:00:23)
o
Remained in Oklahoma until 1941
Father worked in the oil fields during the depression (00:00:31)
Mother was a school teacher
o
Had taught in Grand Rapids, Michigan
1941- The York family moves to Wayland, Michigan
York describes life in Oklahoma in the 1930’s (00:01:01)
o
Lived in the town of Britton
o
Father had been a pilot in WWI
o
Oklahoma was “a flying country” (00:01:30)
o
York remembers that his father was a “very natural mechanic” and worked for
General Motors when the family first moved to Oklahoma
The family moved up to Michigan before the attack on Pearl Harbor (00:02:55)
York knew about the war in Europe, and remembers being worried about the possibility of
being attacked by Japan
o
Learned about the war primarily in school , although it was in Civics class and
none of the information was new (00:03:46)
o
Information was heavily censored (00:04:15)
York heard about the attack on Pearl Harbor on the radio (00:04:50)
o
Followed the war through the letters of GIs from Wayland
o
Was a very patriotic time, many young men signing up for the service
When York was 16, he went to enlist and was accepted.
o
When York graduated from high school at 17, he entered the service (00:06:44)
o
A parent’s signature to enlist was not needed, even though York was a minor
York was called to active duty July 1st of 1945 (00:07:20)
Training (00:07:21)
Air Force basic training squadron was out of Biloxi, Mississippi
o
Basic training had a lot of emphasis on physical training (00:07:41)
Marching, cross-country running
York was in great shape, remembers training being easy for him
o
Reenlisted after his 6 months were over, rather than be drafted (00:09:01)
Was discharged from the Air Force and reenlisted in the Army Air Force
Didn’t want to be a mechanic
Sent to Greensboro, North Carolina (00:09:20)
o
Finished training and shipped out to New York in less than a month
Shipped out of New York in October or November
�o
Shipped out on an NYU Victory ship
V-hulled, bunks were 18 beds high, and rolling over was impossible
Small ship—900 troops packed into the ship
York slept on deck after the first night, he wasn’t supposed to but he hid
in a life boat (00:10:27)
York remembers there being very little food.
Lunch was a cup of soup and two crackers
Spent 31 days on the ship
o
Went to Casablanca, then Naples in Italy
WWII is over, but many men were still being shipped to Europe (00:11:46)
Remembers the Straits of Gibraltar as still being dangerous, even after the war
o
Torpedoes, submarines, and mines (00:13:19)
Italy (00:14:00)
The stop in Casablanca was a one day stop. York did not get to leave the ship.
First impression of Naples was of a city on a hill
o
Could see Mt. Vesuvius
o
Stayed in Naples for a week or two
o
The weather was warm, similar to Georgia or Alabama
Sent to Caserta, Italy (00:15:00)
o
About 18 miles inland
o
Allied Headquarters Command at that time
Both British and American troops were stationed there
German prison camp located within Caserta as well
o
Was a clerk in the medical area.
kept track of supplies
o
When the First Sergeant became a Lieutenant, York took his former position
(00:17:26)
o
The officers did not seem to do anything, but were “your friend” (00:20:15)
o
The British were also on the base (00:22:10)
Describes the British
o
Talks about the German prisoners of war (00:23:02)
Describes one German prisoner who taught himself English
o
The prison camp was a separate compound from the base in Caserta (00:25:50)
o
York went to Naples every weekend
o
York spent over a year in Italy (00:27:20)
o
York got to ride in an aircraft carrier
Air Force food was the best
o
York describes the Italian civilian population (00:30:10)
One popular restaurant the GIs went to for eggs and fried potatoes
Many children visited the base
The only warning York received was not to park a vehicle on the street
because it would get stolen
o
York does not recall many discipline problems within the base (00:33:11)
o
The USO came in four or five times for entertainment
o
York talks about a monastery that had been destroyed and was going to be
�rebuilt
o
Rome was almost untouched by the war due to historical significance
o
The German prisoners were allowed to go home, but many who lived in the
communist zone did not want to leave (00:38:33)
The prisoners did not have a choice to stay, but were sent home
regardless
The majority of the prisoners were still in Caserta when York went home
The SS prisoners were not separated from the other prisoners
Return to the United States (00:41:17)
The ship York returned to the United States on was a lousy vessel
o
The return trip was much worse, although men who had gotten married in
Europe were bringing their wives home (ship was gender segregated) (00:41:48)
o
The first thing York saw was Coney Island, then the harbor, then finally the
Statue of Liberty
o
Took about 20 days to cross the Atlantic
o
Took about a week to process him before he was released
After returning home, York worked at Pet Mill (00:44:10)
o
Went to Florida
o
Went on a blind date with the woman who became his wife
o
Went to Kendall for art school
Worked graphic design for Spartan stores for a while
After retiring, became a graphic design consultant for around 10 years
Conclusions about the war (00:45:28)
The war made York grow up
o
Saw a lot of the world
o
Never really returned home, had gained independence
o
Gained leadership and teamwork skills during the service
York wanted out at the time, but now he wonders why he did not make it his career
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_YorkT
Title
A name given to the resource
York, Thomas (Interview outline and video), 2010
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2010-01-13
Description
An account of the resource
Thomas York was born in Baltimore, Maryland in 1927. His family moved first to Oklahoma, then to Michigan. York enlisted in the US Air Force at 16, and after graduating at 17, entered active duty on July 1st of 1945. York underwent basic training at the base in Biloxi, Mississippi. York re-enlisted after his 6 months of duty were finished in the US Army Air Force. York was sent to Caserta, Italy, where he served for a year as a medical clerk. While at Caserta, York met British military personnel and German prisoners of war.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
York, Thomas
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army Air Forces
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Moving Image
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4