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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3649dc866f590ee816a0e6e8b6311c7b.pdf
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Larry Philips interviewed by Eric Gollanek and Megan Stevens
July 21, 2018
EG: This is Eric Golloneck and Megan Stevens and I'm here today with say your nameLP: Larry Philips
EG: at the old schoolhouse in Douglas Michigan. on July 21, 2018. This oral history is being
collected as part of the Stories of Summer Project, which is supported in part by Grant from the
National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage program. Thank you for taking the
time to talk with me today. I'm interested to learn more about your family history and your
experiences this summer, in particular in the Saugatuck-Douglas area. Can you please tell me
your full name, Larry, and spell it?
LP: It's Larry Richard Phillips. L A R R Y R I C H A R D P H I L L I P S.
EG: Okay, very good. So, we'll start in the beginning you were talking about the old
schoolhouse and being a student here. Tell me bit about where you grew up.
LP: I grew up in Douglas [Laugh]
EG: Okay.
LP: We lived in Saugatuck with my dad who's in the service.
EG: Okay.
LP: In fact, I met my dad when I was five years old. when we went to pick him up on the bus
when he came back from World War II.
MS: Wow, that's an amazing story.
LP: And I went to the first grade over there and then we moved to Douglas and I was in the
second grade here.
EG: So, first grade in Saugatuck and then transferred if you will cross the river.
LP: The River here to Douglas, yeah.
EG: Very good. Tell me little bit about your parents and your family and maybe their names and
�what they did, what their background is with..
LP: My family… My wife's name is Carol. We've got three children. Alison, Kevin, and
Michelle. Alison lives in Hudsonville and the other two are located pretty local. They're out on
Old Allegan Road.
EG: Okay, so stayed close, family stayed close together.
LP: Yep, pretty close.
EG: Your parents, you mentioned your father was in the service in World War II. What was his
name?
LP: Henry Phillips was his name.
EG: Was he from Saugatuck originally?
LP: No, he was from Fennville.
EG: Okay. So, there's a family connection there in the area. What was his role in the second
World War?
LP: Just Infantry.
EG: Was he in Europe?
LP: Yes.
EG: Or the Pacific?
LP: Landed in Italy and walked to England.
EG: Okay.
MS: Wow.
[All Laugh]
LP: As the war moved, so. Right, yeah. He didn't really walk to England, because you have to
get across the water. [Laughs] There's some other transportation involved.
�EG: For sure, yeah. What were some of your of most vivid memories from childhood growing
up and Douglas?
LP: Vivid ones? [Laughs]
EG: Ones that stuck out, memories growing up. They could be here at school or could be off you
know in the neighborhood or off at the the beach or river, or…
LP: As a kid, I mean we probably use the athletic field down there for everything because we
played, I think, baseball, every day that it was a good day. Yeah, in the winter we always went
sledding to the golf course.
EG: Uh-huh.
LP: Had bicycles in the summer, would ride to Baldhead. We'd climb the face of Baldhead.
Can't do that anymore, but back then, you could.
[All Laugh]
EG: Uh-huh.
LP: And, yeah that's really just about it.
EG: Yeah, how about… You mentioned your father in Fennville. Your mother's family? Was
she also from Fennville?
LP: My mother's family was from Sweden. and they were in Minnesota, then they went to
Chicago, and then they bought a a farm up here and my mother graduated from this school.
EG: Okay.
LP: Oh. and my dad's mother graduated, which is my grandmother. She graduated from this
school too in eighth grade.
EG: What was your mother's name?
LP: Francis.
EG: And what was her maiden name?
�LP: Ekdahl.
EG: Can you spell that?
LP: E K D A H L. Wait a minute, it might be E C ? E C K D A H L. Boy, I've never been asked
us to for a long time.
EG: Yeah, that's a tough one to pull off, yeah.
LP: I was thinking about the family history pieces and thinking about those. My cousin Alice,
her last name was Eckdahl. She's married to John Bock, who was an ex-Fire Chief in Saugatuck.
EG: Okay.
MS: Oh, wow.
EG: A close web of connections in a small town right, or series of towns.
5:01
EG: So, deep roots here in the community, gets a little sense of how your family first came here.
Particular memories you had growing up here that you know you say that were good or bad parts
about being in town or growing up here?
LP: They were always really good because we had Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. We used at sea
scouts. I never belonged to the sea scouts.
EG: Okay.
LP: Yeah.
EG: Were there some particular activities that stand out from that for you?
LP: Just playing ball.
EG: Just playing ball. How about in the scouts?
LP: At that time there was a shuffleboard dollar tennis court.
�EG: Okay.
LP: The whole works. Plenty of things.
EG: Lots of activities down there. I know in some other interviews, baseball stood out as the
sport in town. In town, yeah, now when you… When you went to Fennville for high school did
you participate in any sports or clubs or anything?
LP: No, I couldn't because I had to ride the bus back. There was no way for me to get back.
When my parents picked me up because we only had one car, and my dad used that because he
was working.
EG: Oh.
LP: So, I couldn't get involved in sports. I would have played baseball if I would have been able
to get back and forth.
EG: What were the years, approximately, that you were in school that you were in school here in
Douglas?
LP: I think I started school here, it was either '46 or '47.
EG: Okay.
LP: And then I graduated from the eighth grade here. And then I graduated from high school in
1957, in Fennville.
EG: Right. Was there a particular reason that you went to high school in Fennville as opposed to
Saugatuck?
LP: At that time, Douglas with a separate identity.
EG: Right.
LP: Saugatuck had the high school. We weren't tied in with Saugatuck, so we could go to any
one wanted to. Then, some of the kids went to Saugatuck.
EG: Right.
LP: There was a bus that went to town for Fennville, so...
�EG: Got you, that was more convenient.
LP: There were about four or five of us that went to Fennville. Because of the bus, it was more
convenient, as opposed to Saugatuck, where you would just have to walk.
EG: Walk, right.
LP: Or get a ride or something.
EG: Yeah. Got you. Very interesting. Very much kind of a world.
LP: All of the roads are gravel except the road that come down through town. Okay, that used to
be Old 31.
EG: Right.
MS: How mock the gravel roads everywhere.
LP: All gravel.
EG: Growing up here in Douglas in particular were there, were there businesses and places or
institutions beyond the field there that you hung out or that were important for you or your
family?
LP: Well, the one restaurant that was the Soda Lounge, which is now Everyday People. I think
that's always been a restaurant in one shape or form.
EG: Okay, yeah.
LP: And the bakery.
EG: What was the Soda House like when you were growing up or a teenager?
LP: Well, you'd get an ice-cream cone for a nickel. [Laughs]
MS: That's awesome.
EG: That sounds like a good deal.
�LP: You might be allowed one of those every two weeks or so.
[All Laugh]
EG: Right, absolutely.
LP: But then, we go there in the morning when waiting for the bus because it always open it up
so could in where it was warm, which was kind of nice.
EG: For sure.
MS: Very nice.
LP: Bill Kruger was the name of the gentleman who owned it, and where he left I have no idea,
but he coached us to use one of our coaches for baseball.
EG: Okay.
MS: Oh, wow.
EG: Very nice. So, ice-cream there was this was a stand-out. Were there others?
LP: Then the Douglas Bakery was there.
EG: Particular things remember eating from or that you wanted to eat?
LP: I think that was one of my first jobs that I had. I think was eleven years old and sorted pop
bottles and beer bottles.
EG: Okay.
MS: Oh wow.
EG: Uh-huh. Very cool, very interesting, yeah. So, other work? So, thinking about summertime
is the focus of this. Other jobs that you had? It sounds like you worked there, and were there
other things you did during the summertime in terms of work?
LP: I had a ... I delivered papers at that time. I think it cost fifteen cents a week to have the paper
delivered.
�MS: Oh, that's a good deal.
[All Laugh]
LP: In the winter you had to walk it, but if I don't answer the number you could ride a bike.
EG: Right. So, daily? Daily delivery? Was it a daily paper?
LP: Yep, a daily paper.
10:00
EG: Some early mornings.
LP: Some early mornings, yeah. [Chuckles] Then I worked at Sickle's Market.
EG: And what kind work did you do?
LP: Stocking shelves and doing that.
EG: So, tell me a bit about after your graduation from high school what were your steps from
there? What did you do at that point?
LP: Well, I graduated in '57 and I went to work in 1957 in at Food Industries.
EG: Okay.
LP: I work. I worked there for.... jeez. Well, I was part of Lloyd J Harris Pie Company, but it
was called Food Industries.
EG: Okay. What… how did you… what was your entrance there? How did you get hired there?
LP: Stacking crates.
EG: Stacking crates?
LP: Of apples delivering crates of apples.
EG: Okay.
�LP: Well, not crates of apples, the crates. Loading trucks in.
EG: That was a year-round job or seasonal?
LP: The first year was seasonal because I got laid off in the summer EG: Okay.
LP: …but I had another guy who mowed yards. We had a good time doing that. So, we made it
through. It's not a bad place to be in the summer.
EG: No, it isn't.
LP: There's always, you can always find a job, if you want a job.
EG: And then from that point, what other work did you do there? Or, what was your…?
LP: I ended up... I was... The manager that was there was Joe Prentergass, and he was the one
that got us started with Lloyd J Harris. And, then, when I came back to work I took care of
Harris' house. Mowed the yard, cleaned the swimming pool that's one reason we don't have a
swimming pool, because I had my fill of cleaning those. [Laughs]
EG: That was enough of that, right?
LP: Yeah, it was the in summer. Usually had to fix crates or do something else while it was
down.
[Phone Rings]
LP: Oh, I think that's me. Whoops.
EG: That's okay.
LP: I have no idea what it is for. Soon as you touch it, it's gone.
MS: It's ended already.
EG: Not a problem, not a problem at all. Yeah. So other work that you had there with Harris?
Talk a little bit about that.
�LP: Well, yeah, then I started driving truck. okay. and hauling between here and Saugatuck. We
fixed apples, prepared apples for them to make into pies. And also went to... then we'd collect
blueberries in the summer, at the Locker Plant, because they owned that.
EG: So, lots of fruit on the move.
LP: Fruit on the move.
[All Laugh]
EG: Any questions that pop out to you there, Megan?
LP: Seems like it was 62 or 63 when they closed it. Three of us worked up in Shelby, Michigan,
and established another plant up there for doing all the fruit up there with Lloyd Harris. We'd
rode back and forth with him every day.
EG: Kind of… maybe thinking a little bit about Saugatuck and Douglas together, what were
some of your impressions of Saugatuck, as someone living in Douglas through your school years
high school years and beyond?
LP: Oh, we always hung out in Saugatuck.
EG: Okay, spent a lot of time there.
LP: We did. The Soda Lounge was there and that's where everybody congregated, and you had
all the records you listen to. You’d have to pay for it but I mean it was no big deal. Well, it was,
but…
EG: So this will be in the mid-fifties?
LP: Yeah. The big pavilion was there, you'd go there for movies. That's when you're kid. When
you got older it was a bar down there.
MS: That's right.
LP: Spent some time there as well. I guess.
EG: This is good. So yeah, what can you tell me a little bit about the Soda House, the Soda
Lounge? What kind of records were there? Were there…?
�LP: Oh, all 50s.
EG: Oh sure.
LP: Lots of R&B. Galveston. Yeah, a lot of Country Western was starting to be pretty popular
back then.
EG: Are there any particular records you remember or artists you remember?
LP: Not really. [Laughs] That was a long time ago. We had a good time. Had a good time. There
you go, that's right. Of course, cars, hot rod cars were the thing back then, too.
EG: Mhm. Did you have a car?
LP: I did. I did. Yeah, when I was seventeen I bought a brand-new 1958 Chevrolet Impala.
EG: Okay.
MS: Nice.
15:04
LP: Three, 348 engine, dry car, the whole works. That was certainly a car payment. You know,
$107 a month. So, you know I had to work. [Laughs]
EG: What was the terms of that loan? Was it like two years, three years? How did that work?
LP: I remember it cost me $3400, and it weighed 3400 lbs.
EG: A dollar a pound, okay.
LP: It was $107... Yeah, that's how I remember it. The payments were...$100 I think they were
$106. That's why I had to work during the summer when we were laid off.
EG: Sure.
LP: Unemployment paid $40, but I had to pay the rest.
EG: That is a significant car payment. Were there… were their fair number of people you knew
from high school that had cars?
�LP: Oh yeah.
EG: Pretty common?
LP: Yeah, pretty common. Everybody was always wanting to race, one way or another.
EG: Yeah, that is definitely one of the themes that we're really interested in with this project,
especially during the summer. The kind of shenanigans of Saugatuck and Douglas through the
1950's and 60s. Tell me a little bit about racing, hot rod culture.
LP: Well, we used to race in Stanton Michigan. So, every weekend we probably be six or eight
of us that would drive up there. Up by Greenville. Yeah. Up by [Indistinguishable]. I think the
drag strip is still there.
EG: It still is there.
LP: It's still there. And then there was one in Indiana I can't remember the name of that one
right now.
EG: Okay.
LP: We went down there just a couple times. Yeah. We put a group of people from here that you
knew from the community would go up there to Stanton up and down Indiana.
EG: Yeah, interesting.
LP: So, this was the weekend. Usually, every weekend you were somewhere for racing.
EG: Okay, very interesting. How'd that go? [Laugh] How many did you win?
LP: I think I won two trophies.
EG: Okay.
MS: Nice.
[All Laugh]
LP: Right now, you can probably buy those trophies for three dollars, so what you had invested
it wasn't really for making the money.
�EG: Sure, sure. That's fascinating. Did you do a lot of customization or modification that you
made to your cars?
LP: Oh, yeah. Yeah, obviously, all lowered, with laid pipes on. It would come out like…
EG: Yeah. Right. I assume you drove your car, I mean...
LP: Yeah, we drove them back and forth.
EG: Yeah, that's what I meant.
LP: My friend, he had a Corvette. We towed that back with a rope, at fifty-five mile an hour too.
Oh, yeah and he would put his brakes on if he see someone trying to pull out. Because If I just
hit the brakes...
EG: Yeah, right...
Yeah right. I mean... He couldn't quite react, so it was up to him to make sure he can put the
brakes on. So, anyways, up to Stanton, I think it's 80 miles.
EG: It's a long way from here.
LP: 80-90?
EG: Yeah, it'd be a good haul.
LP: It's quite North and East in Grand Rapids. So, yeah and no highways. I mean, no 131, 196,
or any of that.
EG: How did you go up there? Did you just- did you start right away and back roads?
LP: Back roads. Yeah, back roads. That all ended when I got married, so. [Chuckles] Racing
days were over.
EG: How old were you when you got married?
LP: 20.
EG: So, a couple years.
�LP: A couple years. A couple years of having… I'm not gonna say it, good time.
EG: Yeah. How did you meet your wife?
LP: Well, that same summer that I was laid off. I worked for a gentleman who had a milk
delivery.
EG: Okay.
LP: I did the commercial runs every weekend. Well, she was from Hopkins and she was some
living with some lady in Saugatuck, and she worked at the one restaurant where I had made a
delivery and we met that way.
EG: Got you. What was the restaurant?
LP: [Sighs] Ned Roberts owned it. Portacall.
EG: Okay, very good.
LP: Boy, you're getting lucky on my memory. It's not the greatest at times It comes and goes
sometimes. It's like AM radio, fades in, fades out. [All laugh]
19:50
EG: So, racing. Did you ever race at the Air Park Speedway?
LP: No, but we went to there when I was in grade school, because a friend who announced made
the announcements while we were running and all that we'd set up there in the booth with him. It
was Thomas... We had Thomas Insurance here, if you ever heard of that.
EG: I have not, not yet.
[All Laugh]
EG: Not yet. I like that connection.
LP: Yeah, so definitely an interesting in racing and hot rods. That's where we…
EG: Was there driving around racing, racing on the streets as well in this area?
�LP: Oh, yeah. One of the cops used to watch for us help us out. So, that he knew the kids were
doing it, you know, so he would watch over you a little bit me. Try to reduce the chance of
accidents and things like that.
EG: So, get in pretty so decent relationship with the police in town.
Never a problem, yeah.
EG: Yeah. How about when, you know part of the story… kind of you know things going on
and Saugatuck and Douglas go through late 50s and 60s but running with experience with you
know biker gangs is certainly something we've read a lot about. Did have any experience?
LP: We were... I was married when we had that, because I was a fire department over in
Douglas, and they rounded up a bunch of them in right took their motorcycles away from them,
put them in jail overnight and they put everything in the fire department, so the fire departments
guys to go back release them to them and that's how they copped out is what they did. They were
done. But, the guys were decent guys that had the motorcycles, they were just partying and
having a high old time. Sometimes, it got out of control.
EG: Too many, too many drinks too many times.
LP: Too many drinks, yeah.
EG: So you had all those bikes and stuff in fire station while you were there.
LP: Yeah, that's where they put them.
EG: Anything that stands out?
LP: That's when it was underneath the Village Hall.
EG: Okay. Got you.
LP: When the Fire Department was underneath it.
EG: Yeah. Anything that stands out about that? Were they decent guys? Where are these guys
from? Where were these, if you remember? All over?
LP: All over, yeah I think this group was out of Illinois though, kinda sticks in my mind. From
the Chicago area.
�EG: Interesting.
LP: Not trying to pass it onto Illinois. [Laughs]
EG: That's a first... That stands, that jumps out to you.
LP: Yeah, it stands out. I won't say it's a fact, but that's...
EG: Right.
LP: But that was just once that that ever happened, though. But I know the town would be so
busy it would be blocked off. They just stop traffic from going in because it was no more room
for cars to park or do anything else. They just stopped it and barricaded the roads. If you grew up
around here you know how to get in without...
[All Laugh]
MS: Other ways in.
LP: Other ways, yeah. [Laughs]
EG: Knew all the back roads.
LP: Saugatuck's always been a busy, busy town.
EG: Yeah. Lots of activity. Were there, kind of switching, your experiences there. You
mentioned spending a lot of time there, hanging out in high school and teenage years and
twenties. Were there particular places that you, aside from the Soda Lounge, you mentioned bars,
as you got older, bars or restaurants...?
LP: I didn't really frequent the bars. yeah. If anything, once we' were married, we'd go to The
Butler to eat, or the Coral Gables. We didn't do that very often.
[All laugh]
EG: Not common.
LP: Not, no.
�EG: You said you had three kids?
LP: It was a real treat. Three kids.
EG: That's a handful right there
[All Laugh]
LP: You know what you had to order, you knew how much you could spend, and you knew how
many drinks you could have, because you still had to pay the babysitter when you got home, so it
was a good deal whatever you did it. Most of the time, we got together with other people that we
hang around with you know and have get togethers at their house. You know, have dinner or
something. Somebody brings this you bring that. That worked well.
MS: Nice little potluck.
EG: Do you remember some of the families that you guys used to hang out with for dinners and
things like that?
LP: Yeah. A lot of are them gone already. Shruten Gus was one of them. The Whitemans. He
was the plumber in town.
25:12
LP: Oh, golly. I know there was a lot of other people there but you most of are them all gone
now too. Oh, and then we snowmobiled too. We started the snowmobile club, The Snow Gutters.
There were some fifty some members.
EG: What year did that start, approximately? 1960s? 50s.
LP: Oh, quite early. Because I ended up I bought a used snowmobile. It was a year old it, was a
59. Then, I bought a brand-new one that was 1960.
EG: Okay. Nice.
LP: Yeah. That was out at the old airport. Okay. And then you could ride in the winter I mean
the winters were bad enough where you could just take off and ride anywhere you wanna go.
EG: Was that common in town, that people road snow machines in town, or not so much?
�LP: Well, we set up trail areas where you wanted to go into town, to any of The Butler or the
Coral Gables. You had a certain way that we put up signs for snowmobiles in town, in Douglas
also.
EG: Okay, that's great. What were those, do you remember what snowmobiles you had, the 59
and the 60?
LP: Ours were Arctic Cats. There were Arctic Cats, Polaris. I think they're both still about the
only ones going. I can try to remember some of the other names, but I can't. Johnson was making
some.
EG: Yeah, Johnson had one.
LP: Oh, there were a lot of different brands. I don't remember them anymore, I'm sorry.
EG: That's alright, I was just curious. Where did they come from? Was there a dealer? Where
did people get them?
LP: We bought the Arctic Cats in Holland, and Mercury was over across that was one of the
other brands the Mercury Motor, or Snowmobile, yeah and I was trying to think there was
another one up here next to where the Red Wood Drive-In used to be. I can't remember what
brand it was. It was pretty popular, but they would repair any snow mobiles.
EG: Right.
LP: If you had a problem with them, most of time you better do your own fixing. [Laugh]
Which is often.
EG: Often.
[All Laugh]
LP: Yeah, it was.
EG: Very cool. So, it's a winter experience there, too.
LP: Pretty fun stuff from early on.
EG: Yeah. Favorite places to go in the summertime? You mentioned Mount Baldhead and
climbing that as a kid. Oval Beach.
�LP: Yeah, Oval Beach. Douglas Beach. We didn't... We went camping once up to Holland when
the kids were little, stayed up at the State Park. Otherwise, you got you got your summer
destination right here.
EG: Okay.
LP: We had a boat.
EG: A boat as well, nice. Do you have other questions that you can think of here?
MS: Yeah, you mentioned the big pavilion and the pavilion in the movie theater. Did you go
there often or maybe just once or twice?
LP: No, it used to be every week whenever they'd change. If it was a decent movie, we went
over there to see it.
MS: Oh, nice.
LP: And we used to go to the wrestling there. okay. Oh, wrestling? Gorgeous George and all the
Flow Eagle...
[All Laugh]
LP: I can't believe they can fake stuff so well.
EG: They do a pretty good job.
LP: That was inside the big ballroom where they have the wrestling.
EG: Right.
MS: Oh wow.
EG: Other events you remember or other things, memorable things from the Big Pavilion you
remember doing there or seeing in there?
LP: They had a drive theater just half-way to Holland.
EG: Okay.
�LP: Oh yeah, so we go there for movies when the kids are little.
EG: Right.
LP: That was perfect. Yeah, quite a lot of... a lot of people did it.
30:08
EG: So, you mentioned you were in the fire department. Were you in the Fire Department when
the Pavilion caught on fire?
LP: Yes, I was because I was was one of the other firemen and we were up on top of the roof at
the El Forno.
EG: Okay.
LP: Yeah, and it got so hot, we were hiding behind where the air movement came out of the
building you know yeah. Yeah, because it was so hot. When it finally broke lose, really good,
that was a little scary.
EG: I bet.
MS: I can't imagine.
LP: Because if you look where the pavilion was right there in relationship to the El Forno. I
mean, next door.
EG: It was next door you.
LP: Oh, man, because house is on the other side burnt, one of the restaurants and then it was
three houses across the river that caught fire and burned to the ground.
EG: Okay.
MS: Oh wow.
EG: From the embers?
LP: Yeah. It was a good thing the wind was out of the direction that it was.
�EG: Right.
LP: Otherwise, it could have taken could've whole the town.
EG: Right.
MS: Oh wow.
LP: It was a huge fire.
EG: Yeah, for sure. Other parts aspects of that do you remember? How you get the call or how
you respond to that?
LP: I was working at the pie factory and somebody… They just had a bell at that time and then
finally… Well, it was Lloyd Harris himself, he came out to the dock and he says they got severe
fire going on downtown at the pavilion, so you guys can go help so I was not on the fire
department at that time.
EG: Okay, got you. They just recruited you as volunteer.
LP: Yeah, to volunteer to go down and help where you could.
EG: Yeah. When you were up at El Forno's roof, did you have water or something?
LP: Yeah, we had fire hoses.
EG: Okay, got you.
LP: Trying to keep that the roof and that wet, wetted down too, to keep that from catching fire.
EG: Yeah, quite the fire. How long did that go on? What was your term memory of that
experience there?
LP: Oh, it must have been that at least six hours and I know there was a crew that stated during
the night because it was you know, it would flash up a little bit just to maintain it, but I didn't I
didn't help. That was done they when the building finally collapsed and everything, everything
was gone anyways. It was shortly after that that I got on the fire department.
EG: Okay. That was your baptism by fire.
�LP: Right and I spent forty-some years the on fire department. okay. Between Saugatuck,
between Douglas and then when Douglas went to Saugatuck. John Black was the Chief and I
was the Assistant Chief.
EG: Yeah. Are there other big event that you remember responding to this is part of that.
LP: Oh yeah, the Tara when it burned, right next door. That was a a big fire. Yeah, there was
a couple hotels in Saugatuck that burned. Can't remember the names of them.... Mount Baldhead
Hotel, where Ship and Shore is. That burned. I can't remember the other one was in the middle,
but it was another hotel that burned to the White... The Whitehouse, I think it's called but it was
Casablanca, and blanca is Spanish for white.
EG: Right yeah, yeah. Very good. So, and then, kinda shifting back to work at the Harris Pie
Factory. Tell me about your work there in the later years, jumping forward a little bit. And, I'm
guessing, retirement?
LP: Well yeah, when Food closed finally. I went to Saugatuck and worked and drove a lift truck,
and then I got involved in maintenance. Worked my way up through there. Went to several
schools. Got knowledge of refrigeration and electrical.
EG: Okay. The whole works.
LP: So then, I got the opportunity to be head of maintenance and chief engineer for the whole
plant and anything involved.
35:13
LP: Then, well, we went through some bad times there, too. When Harris sold the business, he
sold it to Mrs. Smith Pie Company. I don't know if you've ever heard of Mrs. Smith, but they're
out east, out in Pennsylvania.
EG: Yeah.
LP: It got caught in an anti-trust suit.
EG: Okay.
MS: Oh.
�EG: What year was this?
LP: And it was that way for two years, then two guys bought it. Frank Roca and I can't
remember the name of the other, the guy’s name but they were there for the money because all
the money that had made it went into the bank in a lump sum and they paid so much for the plant
on took the money.
EG: Got you. About what year was this... Did Harris sell the plant and then the ...
LP: I think it was around… [Mutters] I want to say it was in the seventies.
EG: Okay.
LP: If I start talking about another one, I'll probably remember when the date was. But, they had
it for two years. And, then it went. They were having trough financial and a company
in Chicago took us over and they finished it up in about a year and a half or so. It had right
around 78 when it all started going bad because at '82 it was closed and two of us were retained
by the bank to keep it, so nobody would mess with it. In '82 Mrs.... or Rich Products wanted to
buy all the equipment and they came there, and they were looking at. They wanted all the
equipment and they asked me if I stay there to help him unload it and I says, "No, when that
happens, I'll be gone." They just, then they decided to buy the whole plant.
EG: Okay.
LP: When the meantime, Chef Pierre was after me to go work for them in Traverse City.
I kind of held them off because Rich Products and them both gave me an offer on the same day. I
went up there and they showed houses and everything else for us to move there.
EG: It's good to be in demand.
[All Laugh]
LP: Yeah, it was. Worked out where they both made me the same. nearly the same offer.
okay and I didn't have to move and start paying for another house. [Chuckles] So, I just
stayed, yeah. Yeah, that was in 1982, and I was assistant manager with a fellow from
Winchester, Virginia. and then he got called to another plant in Appleton and they made me
general manager. I did that for twelve years. then they got so busy that they didn't want to build
any more in the town. The town really wasn't real good favor about adding more industrial area
to it because it's a resort town, so.
�EG: Right. In this specific location, probably, too.
LP: Right.
EG: It's right there, right on your way in and out of town.
LP: Right, yep. So, they just turned it over to Sarah Lee, the business and then we shut the whole
plant down and stripped it I'm trying to remember the fellows that bought it. Anyway, the Fruit
Exchange. The office building used to be the old Saugatuck Fruit Exchange, the one on the south
side of Culvers Street, where it's a park now.
EG: Yeah.
LP: That had I big building in there. It might be one of those pictures in there of that, I don't
know.
EG: Okay, we will have to look. So, this would have been the early 1990s?
LP: No, it was in 1998, when that happened.
EG: Okay.
LP: That's when we closed it, when we were done with it.
EG: Got you.
LP: And then, I worked for Rich Products, going around to different plants, helping them on
different items and I did that for two years and then a friend of mine. I went to work for him in
Grand Rapids for two years and retired.
40:01
LP: Excuse me a minute, I don't...
EG: No, that's okay.
LP: It was the wife. My daughter and all of them are in Hawaii.
EG: Very nice.
�MS: A good place to be.
LP: I don't know why you'd travel anywhere else when right here, you've got everything you
need here, beach wise.
EG: Changes that you've of kind of, reflecting over changes seen you in Saugatuck and
Douglas? What are some things that have changed the most from your childhood to now?
LP: Well, we used to…. The Butler, we went there last night. We still do, but you don't know
anybody any more in there. Used to be our town, you know, and now it's the younger, a different
group that is in there.
And we belong to the Singapore Yacht Club, because we were there for 12 years with a boat, and
then we bought a motor home and did that for about ten years and now we got a fifth-wheel that
we bought, and sat a lot in Florida, and we go down there in winter.
MS: Escape some of the cold.
LP: For a while. Escape some of the cold.
EG: How long do you go down there?
LP: For three months three and a half.
EG: Other changes that you've seen for the good or for the bad?
LP: I think everything is more or less been for the good. I'm not so fond of the highway out here.
EG: More and more traffic.
LP: More and more traffic, yeah. It's not made where. I mean you pull of of Douglas and you
almost swiped my car and it's getting there for a left and turn and if a truck comes, they almost
have to go over to that. And then, you see the bicycles riding down the highway.
EG: Yeah. Quite the mix.
LP: Yeah.
[All Laugh]
�LP: That was the only place where it was wide enough where they didn't have to use the
highway really if they didn't need to. So, I... well… maybe they say it helps Douglas. I don't
know if it does or doesn't, but it's there.
EG: Way too soon to tell.
LP: Yeah.
EG: Looking ahead, kind of thinking about you know, this interview will be saved for a long
time. So, when someone listens to this tape fifty years from now, imagine that, what would you
like to know about your life and the community right now?
LP: I enjoyed both communities.
EG: Of Saugatuck and Douglas.
LP: [Laughs] Of Saugatuck and Douglas, but I'm still partial to Douglas. [Laughs] No, I think
it's a great area really.
EG: In particular things you described for some future listeners that we don't know who that
moment might be like?
LP: Yeah, would be interested in another fifty years. Didn't change much over in the last fifty
really. I mean the buildings got renewed or something like that you know.
EG: It's still recognizable place from your child as a resort community a small town small.
LP: Yeah, small town, and you know, yeah.
EG: Any advice for a young person that might listen to this tape?
LP: I think it's more of a retirement area, as to find a job in town and live here is kind of tough
now.
EG: Yeah.
LP: When we were younger it wasn't. I mean, we had grocery stores, so you were here all the
time. Well, they still have the grocery store. More work.
EG: More year-round work.
�LP: Yeah, more year-round work. More diversity of work. It's kind of nice for the younger
people. They've got a lot of different places that they can work. My daughter she works is
waitress at The Butler. I think she's the oldest one her been there the longest. Not the oldest but
been there the longest.
EG: Very good.
LP: Fifty years, that's an interesting, I've got to do some more thinking on that one, you know.
EG: Right.
LP: I don't know much more can it change.
MS: Yeah.
44:59
EG: Tough to say. I guess another way to look at is what you imagined your life would be like,
when you're in the school building, looking forward imagining fifty years down the road Is
Saugatuck and Douglas pretty much how you expected?
LP: Course it changes.
[Phone Rings]
EG: You're in demand.
MS: That's a fun tune.
LP: Somebody trying to save interest on your credit card. I don't know if you get those calls.
EG: Yeah, we do. [All Chuckle]
LP: It drives me nuts. Where were we? [All Laugh]
EG: I guess another way to say it did you imagine when you were a kid that you would stay here
in Douglas?
�LP: Yeah, I kind of did, because there was always work and it was busy, you know. Of course,
we had the company here so that employed quite a few people, really.
EG: Right, for sure. Any other questions that you have on your mind there, Megan?
LP: No, not really. Not at the moment.
EG: Anything else we didn't ask about that you want to share?
LP: Not really. Other than food industries, there was the Morgan Ice Company. It was bought,
but you probably know that.
LP: In that hall, we used to play basketball over there when we were here in school. It used to be
that the Douglas ACs owned it. I don't know what it was originally made for. I never inquired.
EG: I don't know off-hand myself.
LP: Somebody said it was a church at some time.
EG: Yeah, I think that's accurate.
MS: Yeah. The Library? Yeah, I think it was a church, and then....
LP: I don't ever remember it being as a church when I was going to school here. right. I know
the athletic office was active there. Yeah, they had all their weightlifting and all that stuff in the
basement. That was quite popular back then, too, with baseball teams Fast pitch for men. That's
kind of disappeared now. But, a lot of the guys here played it. I didn't, I didn't care for softball.
The library tore down the house we lived in for two years right after we were married.
[All Chuckle]
EG: Bit of a loss.
LP: A bit of a loss, yeah. Some things have come and gone. But the town is still advancing,
though. Some beautiful homes go up. Lake Shore, there are some nice ones out there. [Chuckles]
It is a retirement area, really, when you stop and look at it. Other than what kind of labor you call
it that work for the waitresses, the stores.
EG: The service industry.
�LP: Yeah, service. That's what I'm trying to think of, service industry. There are no major
companies around, like there used to be so. Holland is a place where you go to work.
EG: Oh, very good. Unless we have any other questions or comments, I'm going to thank you.
Thank you so much for your time.
LP: Thank you for having me.
EG: For sharing your memories here.
LP: I wish I could remember more. I'll probably think about a bunch of them.
EG: We can always do a part two. If you think of some good stories, let us know.
LP: If there's something you need.
MS: We can always come back.
LP: Well, I was on the fire department so that was always involved. Then, I was on the city
board here. Did that. It was active, it was the job that held me here, so I stayed.
EG: And it’s a long continuity, it sounds like. You've had a long time of being here to
understand how things work.
LP: What doesn't work.
EG: What doesn't work, yeah.
LP: Yeah, all towns have the same problems. I think. Roads and everything else.
EG: Well, very good.
LP: I enjoyed the area. I love the area.
EG: Very good. We appreciate you sharing all that of and with that. I'm going go ahead and I'll
stop the recording here, and this concludes our interview today. Thank you.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1910s-2010s
Source
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Various
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Douglas (Mich.)
Michigan, Lake
Allegan County (Mich.)
Beaches
Sand dunes
Outdoor recreation
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Contributor
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Saugatuck-Douglas History Center
Identifier
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Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
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image/jpeg
application/pdf
Type
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Image
Text
Language
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English
Date
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2018
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
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DC-07_SD-PhillipsL_2018-07-21
Creator
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Philips, Larry
Date
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2018-07-21
Title
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Larry Philips (interview transcript) 2018
Description
An account of the resource
Larry Phillips recounts his time in Saugatuck and Douglas, where he grew up. In this interview, he discusses working several jobs, including his work at the Lloyd J. Harris Pie Company. He also discusses his time as a firefighter and provides a first-hand account of the Big Pavilion fire.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Gollanek, Eric (interviewer)
Stevens, Megan (interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Douglas (Mich.)
Allegan County (Mich.)
Motorcycle gangs
Automobiles
Oral history
Audio recordings
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Relation
A related resource
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
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audio/mp3
application/pdf
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Sound
Text
Language
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eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c150c42df5d80bb6bf8cc543935bdc72.mp3
62c69cbe0fe79a2ddf83b73ef83dfe14
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d7eeeebf32dc0410571db954af87f8ee.pdf
f8aa78585478ae33bc5db1b3738132d5
PDF Text
Text
Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
1
Eric Gollannek: This is Eric Gollannek and I...
Ken Kutzel: …and Ken Kutzel…
EG: …and I’m here today with…
Ray Foster: Ray Foster.
EG: Uh, at the old school house in Douglas, Michigan on July 23rd, uh, 2018. This oral history is being
collected as part of the Stories of Summer Project, which is supported in part by a grant from the
National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Program. Thank you for taking the time to
meet with us today, we’re interested in learning more about your family’s history, in particular
experiences of summer. Can you please state your full name and spell it for us?
RF: Raymond Edward Foster, R A Y M O N D, E D W A R D, F O S T E R
EG: That’s great, alright, so we’ll, we’ll continue our conversation here, you brought in a few things here
about your farm, you want to tell us a little bit about where it is and…
RF: Well this, this was kind of a family farm, um, my mother, mothers’ parents and uh, her grandparents
uh, um, bought eighty acres. They came from Chicago in the late 1800’s and uh, bought eighty acres uh,
near the corner of 66th street and uh, 126th and uh, they [pause] they farmed it and uh, [pause] uh, a
lot of different things. They had blueberries and raspberries and uh, they had 20 head of cattle and uh,
chickens and uh, at different times, different things, uh. Through the years and uh, they raised four
daughters, my mother was the oldest and uh, [pause] she spent, she was the last one to leave the farm.
The other daughters grew up, we got married and then before World War Two, and then my mother got
married after World War Two and uh, so she spent more time on the farm. But as I was growing, when I
grew up and [pause] I, I stayed there with my grandparents. They were in good health and uh, help them
do things [pause] and uh, but mainly just really enjoyed the place. And uh, it was uh, just a just a
beautiful retreat, and uh, a lot of great place to explore and uh, [pause] uh, [long pause]
KK: Is the house still standing?
RF: The house is still standing, it’s had several owners since then, and uh, but uh, [pause] but it’s been,
it’s changed some. Uh, considerably. The house, the outside structure’s pretty much the same but it has
a garage added to it, but uh, and uh…
KK: I noticed it says here that that’s the Hines homestead?
RF: Yes...
KK: Is that what it was called?
RF: Well yes, my, [stutters] I, I, I didn’t mention that but my, my great grandfather's name was Emo
Hines and he came from Chicago and he was not a farmer but he kind of adopted the, the [stutters] hob
hobby, but he had just one son, Otto who was my, my uh grandfather and my great grandfather was a
German immigrant and uh, [pause] he uh, [pause] along with his son uh, they kind of developed the
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
2
land. They planted fruit trees and grape vineyards and, and uh, and raised cattle, and tilled the soil with
a team of horses and uh, um, [pause] it was a [pause] a [pause] a labor of love I think, uh, uh, they uh, it
stayed in the family till the 70’s and uh, so ah, let’s see where can I go from there uh, but I, but I, I spent
a lot of time there in the 60’s, the 50’s and 60’s and uh, [pause] and uh, [pause] well…
KK: How ‘bout, give another...tell us, you, the other day when we spoke with you. You started to tell us a
story about one time when you were on the farm and the motorcycles came in...
RF: Oh!
KK: Would you talk about that please?
RF: No, actually that was at my parents’ house…
KK: Oh!
RF: ...on M89 east of Fennville.
KK: Well let’s talk about that anyway!
[00:04:39]
RF: Okay! Sure! Well it was probably ‘65 ‘66, maybe ‘64 ‘65 ‘66, [pause] I think by ‘67-’68 it kind of
fizzled out. But, on a Memorial Day weekend or Fourth of July weekend, uh, you could hear, hear from a
long ways away this, this sound of motorcycles coming, and there was long strings of them, and various,
[stutters] grou-groups, probably a dozen in a group or so, maybe more, and they came from Detroit,
Flint, and uh, [pause] uh, mainly east, on the other, eastern side of the state, but uh, I guess I could
describe them as a colorful group. They weren't, they weren't necessarily uh, like uh, social club they
were, they more of, of an old [stutters] I I I don’t want to make a comparison to the Hell’s Angels but
they were, they were kind of that style. Uh, their, their jackets on the back had, had little titles like uh
‘Disciples from Hell’ or ‘Hell’s Disciples’ or that sort of thing. That theme was very popular, and uh, but
when I was able to go to Saugatuck, uh, on those weekends it was incredibly busy, they would actually,
unless you could prove you lived there they wouldn’t let you in they would stop at the top of the hill,
they wouldn’t let cars down. And, the motorcycles would be rode up the entire like, from Phil’s all the
way down to the corner and uh, they um, [pause] they would pretty much take over the town. As, as
strange as that might sound, and and the police were, were usually, it wasn’t like today, they were, it
was a small police force and they might rent a few, we referred to ‘them as Rent-a-Cops because they
were just hired for that special occasion. And uh, I’m, I’m not aware of any major, uh, conflicts that uh,
that occurred. There may have been some but I wasn’t really aware of anything, like a, any kind of a
small riot or anything like that. I wasn't aware of anything like that but, but as a teenager it was quite a
novelty to see that. To be exposed to that, and uh, [pause] so, [pause] um, [pause] well, that was pretty
much it, I mean uh, just, just to see it, holiday was over they were gone…
KK: Did that happen every weekend? Or…
RF: No, no, no. Just on, I only saw it on a holiday weekends, and uh, so, that was uh, kind of a, unique
thing.
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
3
EG: What were the reactions of your parents, or grandparents?
RF: Well you know I…
EG: Or neighbors to that?
RF: You know, as far as my, the uh, [pause] the [pause] my parents’ generation, I don’t think they uh, I
don’t think really could comprehend what was going on. I don’t, [stutters] I, I was never aware that they,
uh, it wasn’t something they were happy about, I’m sure, I I know that much but as far as uh, feeling
threatened or anything like that or, uh, [pause] they just, they just looked at it as some kind of a
temporary thing, a phase I think. I don’t think they thought of it as a, um, you know a…
EG: Collapse of civilization…
RF: [Laughs] Yeah! Sure, that, yeah. I’m sure they thought of something like that. Yeah….
KK: Although at that time, was the um, was the summer season, here in Saugatuck, I mean was it um, as
long as it is now, er, you know?
RF: Well, I think, I think I would say it is, um, people started coming up, [pause] um probably before
memorial day and, and um, to their cottages and such and uh, they pretty much stayed until after Labor
Day, shortly after Labor Day. Yeah, there was good numbers of people. It’s hard to make a comparison
between then and now, because things just look at a lot different. They appear a lot different.
KK: Why don’t you talk about that?
RF: Well, I, I guess I could say that, at that time, it was a very affordable place to go, for, for the average
middle class person, and [pause] even though it had a history [pause] from, that I had heard about, you
know ‘Well Saugatuck is really one of, a place you want to go because [stutters] they, they, they have
bars they stay open all night’ and um there’s that kind of atmosphere but, but as a young person, you,
you kind of want to be exposed to a little bit of that.
KK: Well sure!
All: [Laugh]
[00:09:54]
RF: Just to, just to find out for yourself and uh, but, that’s, that’s probably the most striking thing, and
the development, there’s much more development today. You could, you could see the water when you
came in off of, of Blue Start and came into town and you could see the water, uh all the way. There were
no condos or anything like that, and uh, uh, [pause] so, [pause] I hesitate using the word quaint, but if
you, if you were there in the winter you might call it that, but the summer there was a lot of people so it
wasn't really, it was more, it was a tourist town, it was strictly a tourist town. But uh, [pause] uh, the
Coral Gables was a really popular place at that time, very popular place. People would be lined up
waiting to get in, and uh, and [pause] uh, I do remember some scuffles out front just as a bystander
watching some people. Probably some unruly people getting thrown out, and those things kind of stick
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
4
in your head. But, uh, [pause] uh [pause] it was an evolution I guess, you know it just evolved from, you
know my parents’ generation, they probably would’ve saw something, even more, uh, more quaint I
guess you’d say, more slow paced and um,[pause] uh, but things have, thing have evolved to what they
are today and uh, it’s it is, but uh I suppose it’s relative in a way, but it is more, more expensive for the
average person to just go anywhere and spend some time in a, a restaurant or a bar.
EG: Beyond Coral Gables, were there other places that stood out to you? That you spent time, or…
RF: Well…
EG: Or stayed away from, or?
RF: Well the Butler and Coral Gables were always the biggest two, biggest items, and uh, everything else
was just really small. Like uh, there was a place called the Boathouse, and that was down at the end of
the street, across Wick’s Park, in that area, and uh, and uh, all the other little places were just um,
[pause] were lesser, and then, then I, one thing I remembered too in, in it may have been ‘68 or ‘67, you
guys might know, the Blue Tempo came in…
KK: Yes let’s talk about that
RF: Well, you know, as, as a, as a person growing up at that time, I didn’t even, I didn’t even understand
what uh, or fully understand what uh, [pause] um, what a gay, the whole concept of gay people was…
EG: Sure…
RF: So, uh, but I knew this was a unique place, and I knew it had, but, had I known more, in in hindsight, I
might of, might of tried to go there because I know they had great music, and uh, I’m a great uh,
admirer of that kind of, uh, music, and a great history for music and uh, but uh, [pause] uh because now,
as a 70 year uh, and having lived in the area, or known people in the area for a long time, that whole uh,
uh, [pause] uh, shall I say the [pause] the gay scene, is is a, it doesn't, it doesn't even leave an impression
on me anymore.
KK: It’s become part of the culture.
RF: It’s part of the culture, and uh, so, but, but it was always know as a unique place. It was the location
was unique and uh, everybody knew that this was a gay bar, and uh, and uh, so, I wish I could tell you I’d
been there and experienced it but I, I can’t. A friend of mine was there and I only get bits and pieces
from him, but uh, [pause] uh [pause] but uh.
EG: What were some of the reactions or things that people, other people’s reactions or things that
you’ve heard about?
RF: About…
EG: [Inaudible]
RF: About, concerning that?
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
5
EG: Yeah!
Ray: Ah, [pause] you know, people uh, were not really very activist type people at that time. Most
people, you know, they went about their own business and if something new came along, well they
talked about it, but as far as being a [pause] being a objectionable thing or a something that really
disturbed people. People just kind of...after a while it just blew by.
[00:15:14]
KK: [Inaudible]
RF: Yeah, and uh, so, the reaction, my impression of the reaction wasn’t, wasn’t anything really big.
EG: Just another bar, another club that has good music and we’re probably not going there. That kind
of…
RF: That kind of reaction.
EG: That kind of reaction?
RF: That kind of a thing yeah, that’s fair to say. Yeah.
KK: You know um, a question I have for you, being a Douglas resident myself, uh, what are your
memories of the Douglas side?
RF: Well, I occasionally, I would go there with my uh, grandparents occasionally. There was, there was a
little grocery store down on the end of the street towards the river, uh, where uh, um [pause] well there
was a little novelty store there near Naughtons...
KK: Yeah.
RF: Near Naughtons store there, that at one time there was a grocery store there…
KK: Was that Vansicles?
RF: Vansicles, yes! And they would go there occasionally, and uh, [pause] and we would also pick uh,
they they raised uh, raspberries so we would pick raspberries and we would bring them into town and
right where the park is, where the ballpark is there was a man, a vendor there, [pause] and uh, he would
take all we had and uh, he would sell them to the tourists and uh, gosh, just trying to remember his
name now, he had a son who was blind [pause] um, [long pause] gah!
KK: Well it’s alright, it will come to you when you’re not thinking about it.
RF: Right. But anyway it was a, so we did that, we would hang out there for a while but at that time,
across the street, the uh, there was uh, a Catholic School there too. So we knew the, we knew about
that, and at that time the original Catholic Church wasn’t St. Peter's it was just down the street.
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
6
KK: Right.
RF: And uh, one little side light to that, I have a, uh, my dad [pause] had an uncle and uh, I [pause] and
he was the first baby to be baptized there, and I should’ve brought the name, the baptized name was all
the little organizations in town gave him a name and when he went back many years later he was
embarrassed because they mentioned him, and brought him, and mentioned him and everything but his
baptized name was uh, Peter Paul Benedict, uh, Jacob Ivan, [pause] Clark and uh, and they all gave him a
name so, it was, it was an embarrassing thing for him as an adult. But uh, he did happen to be the first
baby that was baptized there uh, he was a part of a large family that was also in the area. But [pause]
but it was a, it was a, it was a incredibly quiet quaint little town. Just down the street there was a place
called the Delicatessen and a man named Red Delky owned it and he had a baker working for him that
was a refugee from Austria, a World War Two refugee, and an incredibly talented pastry chef and
anybody my age can tell you, that lived in the area that they made the best bread and uh, and uh, uh
[pause] sweet rolls and that sort of thing uh, that you could find anywhere. And uh, and uh, down a little
bit further there was a little drug store so it was a, really a, had everything.
KK: [Inaudible}
RF: Just a little town! And uh, I uh, I would also go on Friday night, quite often on Friday night with my
grandparents, near the corner of uh, Blue Star and uh, Maple Street, uh going to the north. There was a
house on the right hand side, at one time it was a resort, owned by my grandfather's uncle, Fred Hines
and [pause] they would pick up people, you would pick up people that came in on the boats and then
bring them back to the resort and uh, his wife would uh, do the housekeeping and uh, he was just
mainly just took them around town to the beach or wherever they wanted to go and uh, but, they had a
little resort there. So but, in later years when I went there with my grandparents, the uh, the next
generation down lived there, my, would be a cousin to my grandmother, grandparents, er grandfather
and uh, so we would just go there, spend some time there with them, they would uh, talk about old
times and that sort of thing, and uh, but uh, it was just [pause] a nice quiet little visit. But uh, I don't
know, what else can I tell you?
[00:20:46]
KK: Do you remember the, uh, the rock festival at all? Were you involved in that, or?
RF: I did go to the one at uh, near Goshorn Lake…
KK: Okay, that’s Potawatomi Beach, right?
RF: Potawatomi Beach, yes. Uh, yes, I did go to that in ‘68, I believe
KK: I believe that’s what it was….
RF: I think it was in ‘68, and it was hot and dry and sandy roads and people would, uh, it was [inaudible]
it was incredibly crowded and uh, you couldn’t get close to the band stand, it was just uh, again there
was, there was that large influx of uh, motorcycle people and they kind of dominated an area there, but
uh, so you could hear things from a distance unless you, unless you somehow got there real early and
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
7
worked your way in, but it was kind of a phenomenon I guess because the volume of people, yeah I
think I, I think I read where cars were lined up all the way from, from that park all the way to the bridge
at the river…
KK: I have heard that….
RF: It’s hard to imagine…
KK: Yeah
EG: Right
RF: So, and then they decided they’d never do that again, but uh, the history of those types of things
are, is, is great. I mean when it goes back to uh, when they had a pavilion and then it’s the uh, got that
racetrack…
KK: Right…
RF: But uh, I do remember, uh, probably the late 50’s when they had a Jazz Festival, the Saugatuck Jazz
Festival, uh, at the racetrack there and uh, Duke Ellington and a few other celebrities were there and my
grandparents farm was kind of a, like a mile south of there, on 126th and uh, just about half a mile from
the corner of Blue Star and 126th, and with the windows open at night, I remember them introducing
Duke Ellington and them mentioning his name, that always stuck in my, stuck with me forever after that.
I thought, wow what would’ve been so great to be there…
KK: And that sound would carry over because it was all farms…
RF: Yes.
KK: Yeah.
RF: Pretty, quite open at that time.
EG: So you could hear? You could hear music and….
RF: I could, yes, yeah, not really well but some, yeah.
EG: Yeah.
RF: And prior to that it was a stock car track, a little dirt stock car track and there was uh, um, uh, auto
racing there. It was quite, for many years, it went on but uh, I never experienced that, I wish I had but
uh, [pause] um [pause]
KK: Any contact, uh at all, or anything you can share about contact with Oxbow or the people from
there?
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
8
RF: No, I never really knew about Oxbow until later I, I consider myself an art lover but I, I never really
knew about it. I wish that I had known more about it at a younger age but it’s a, it’s a great great thing
to have in the area.
KK: Yeah, it was more a private club…
RF: Way back!
KK: And it's interesting that you bring that up because you're not the first person who said ‘We really
didn't pay attention to it’.
RF: No, I never really knew much about it, till later years, and uh, but uh...
EG: Do you remember much of seeing many artists around? Seeing people painting in town, in Douglas
or Saugatuck, or?
RF: No, I always knew it was an art, artsy community but I didn't spend much time, you know, going
from shop to shop, I uh, really at that point in my life, I wasn't really that, I was more, uh, driving your
car, go to the beach, and uh that sort of thing, uh, and getting together with people, but uh, the art,
[pause] I know it existed but I never, I was never exposed to it.
[00:25:16]
KK: Then, what was the beach like then?
RF: Oh, it was great! Uh, there was, there was of course the Oval Beach, but then, the Douglas, Douglas
had a beach, and then there was several beach on down, uh, there were then. I never remembered big
crowds there like today. I have seen some photographs of big crowds but uh, but uh, it was a they were,
they were fairly well kept up and uh, and uh, it was quite a thing to go the Oval Beach was uh, was really
quite a special thing.
KK: Were you guys aware at all of the nude beach? Or did that come later?
RF: You know, I wasn't aware of that, I heard about it, no I heard about it. I did hear about it as a uh,
probably in the late 60’s I heard about it.
KK: Okay.
RF: But uh, that’s really the end of it there, I, I uh, wasn’t curious about that.
KK: Yeah, yeah. Had, had you ever been out on that Denison property with all those dunes?
RF: Yes! I have!
KK: Yeah that’s kind of, well talk about that a little bit, because that I think has to be seen to be believed.
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
9
RF: Well, its, its south of the mouth of the river. I, I did walk that and to the, to the uh, old light house, in
that area, and that's great. That was great country to explore and to follow it all the way up to the, to
bald head and then back down, it was a great, great experience and very natural area and uh, you could
see the old pilings in, in the pine and that little, where the channel was…
KK: Yeah, the lagoon, yeah.
RF: ...and the lagoon yeah and uh, and then uh, well of course there was the pier you could walk out on
that, but [pause] uh, [pause] it was a, you I considered it a great area, beautiful area but I never got to
the north side there north side of the channel where the Denison’s property was I never really saw that.
Uh…
KK: Well it was hard to get out there, always had to take that dug road…
RF: Yeah, Dugout road, yeah. I, my mother, in later years uh worked for uh Ken Denison and planted, I
think, she and another lady cleaned the boats when it was, when it, when they were in business out
there at the end and….
KK: You're talking Broward Marine…
RF: Broward Marine, yes, and, and they uh, uh, my mother planted a whole row of daffodils along the
bank there and was around long enough to see how nice they looked and uh, and uh, she thought the
Denison’s were great people, generous people and uh, [pause] uh, [pause] uh, [pause] only knew, she
knew the dad some but knew Ken more uh, but uh, never, I, I don’t know if the big house was built at
that time but there was a house there along with the uh, the [pause] marina and the business, but uh,
[pause] um, [pause]. The uh, [pause] well going back to the farm there uh, back then all the roads were
dirt roads pretty much uh, they hadn’t paved a lot of the roads there and uh, so you uh, that was a
[pause] a back in time compared to how it is today.
KK: Yeah, where did you go to school?
RF: I did go to school in Fennville that's where my family actually lived.
KK: So was it the old high school there, or?
RF: I did go in the old, to the old high school for a couple years, before it was uh, not used anymore but
uh, uh…
KK: And what about for a grade school was in Fennville also?
RF: Yep, that was also in Fennville, yeah, uh…
KK: I'm going to ask you a funny question…
RF: ...no, no it’s fine.
KK: Did, did you have Mrs. Northrup for any…
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
RF: Yes! Yes I did! [Laughs]
KK: [Laughs] Oh, that’s, so, she’s a real good close of mine, and um…
RF: Oh my gosh, how old is she?
KK: She’s about 93, er um, yep. She has dinner at my house every Monday, in fact she’ll be over
tonight…
[00:30:03]
RF: Really?
KK: I’ll have to mention you.
RF: She was my third grade teacher.
KK: But its, its, she, I was just telling, ah, somebody today uh, we go out with her quite often and no
matter where we go, she’s had every person…
RF: Oh, no doubt.
KK: She taught at, yeah, she taught in Fennville.
RF: Yes.
KK: Oh that’s kind of wonderful.
RF: She was a sweet lady, I, I can tell you that.
KK: And it was her family that owned, uh Sunny Shore.
RF: Oh, really?
KK: On [inaudible] the river road.
RF: See I thought, I thought they lived more out on the...south.
KK: They lived in Allegan, but it was her husband’s family that went there as kids.
RF: Okay, and she did have a son, that's true. Is that true? Yes?
KK: Ah, yep, yeah uh [inaudible] Jeff!
RF: Okay.
10
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
11
KK: Her son Jeff, he’s still around.
RF: Alright, alright.
KK: Yeah.
RF: Yeah.
KK: It’s a small world!
RF: Oh! It’s a lot smaller than you realize if you, if we really, I mean it, when I look at this, or even a
newer one I, I know so many of the people on these placards or I’m familiar with them.
KK: Well, it’s a small area, really.
RF: Yeah, well, for example uh, uh, this farm here this Ed Work farm…
KK: Mhm
RF: Mrs. Work, Mary Work, she was a teacher in the Saugatuck Douglas area for many years but then
she taught in Fennville. She, she uh, her family, her dads family were, were involved in the uh, basket
factory.
KK: Okay.
RF: The name, you probably have seen it.
KK: Yep!
RF: In concern, in relation to the basket factory, and uh, so and she she donated a ton of really great
photos of uh, the history of the area, I’m sure they’re in the archives.
KK: I’m sure they’re in the, I’m sure they’re in the collection.
EG: [Inaudible]
RF: Yeah they’re great.
KK: Well that's, that great, um, let’s see. Uh, well you brought a couple of other photos here so, why
don't we take a look, why don't you tell us, I see uh…
RF: Well, I have, I have to show you this photo here. This photo, and Mrs. Northrup would remember
this…
KK: I should’ve brought her!
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
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RF: Well, anyway, this house is no longer there but if you're on the river road there, you go past where
sunny side...
KK: Sunny Shore, yeah.
RF: and you keep going East to, there’s a curve, where 62nd…
KK: Yep!
RF: ...Where...
KK: I know exactly where it is.
RF: This house used to be right on that, on the right hand side of that property. That property went way
back to a family named Purdy…
KK: Okay…
RF: Uh, Erastus Purdy he was a civil war veteran and he, he owned that property and they had a landing
down below, on the river uh, and a man named uh, one of his sons [inaudible] Purdy they had a boat
named after him, and uh he he was kind of a, well I don't know if it was just a tourist, tourist boat or if it
was a working boat, but anyway they had a landing there and uh, were I think way back there was
actually a trading post there, on that location right down below….
KK: Could be, yeah, because that's, you know, Mac’s Landing is down from there…
RF: Yes! Yeah, right it has, there's an association between that and Mac’s Landing…
KK: Okay…
RF: But uh…
KK: Yeah, that's very interesting.
RF: Yeah.
KK: That already looks like it had fallen on hard time there…
RF: Oh yes! Yes.
KK: Is that sand or is that snow in front? Is that a little bit of snow?
RF: It is snow.
EG: It looks like snow, yeah.
KK: Yeah it looks like it because I don't see uh, leaves on the tree there.
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
13
RF: But I’m sure it was a beautiful house at one time.
KK: Yeah!
EG: Yeah, lots of great shingle work in the gables and on the octagonal bay. Queen Anne revival…
RF: The uh, one of the daughters her, think it was her granddaughter of the original owner, her name
was Purdy and she had a friend of uh, she had somebody drive her to Saugatuck or wherever she
wanted to go, and the car was a Pierce-Arrow.
KK: Oh!
RF: Was a beautiful old Pierce-Arrow and uh my mother always remembered that because it, nobody
had a Pierce-Arrow.
KK: You know what, gosh, Joan Northrup told me a story about that car.
RF: I’ll bet.
KK: Yeah, and I, bet you she, she knew who the people were.
RF: Oh she would know that, yes! I know who the, uh, driver was the driver man’s name was uh, Cleo
Art and he lived just down, down 62nd, er 66th street there he had a farm down there and uh, he was
the driver and whenever she wanted to go somewhere, he would take her. But uh…
[00:35:04]
KK: That's great!
RF: Yeah.
KK: Tell us about your family, do you have children, er?
RF: I have two sons, yes!
KK: Okay.
RF: and uh, they don't live in the area, one’s in Rhode Island and ones in Grand Rapids, but uh, and they
they visit, or we visit them but uh, uh, but my family my mother uh, married a man from Fennville and
they started a little uh, my my dad and my uncle in the, actually before World War Two in the late 30’s
they started a little Mom and Pop grocery store meat market right on the main street where the Salt of
the Earth is…
KK: Oh! Okay!
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
14
RF: Yeah that was a, and then there’s a stairway going upstairs and then just to the, to the left of that
was a little clothing store which was operated by by um my dad and my uncles father, and he had that
since the uh early 20’s and uh then it was inherited by the next son and he ran it until the uh, late 60’s
and then my uh my dad and my uncle uh, when they were drafted in World War Two they, let the
people, the uh, there was a, there was a two brothers that uh, they purchased it, purchased it from they
took it back over again and ran it until they got back from the service and they took it back again.
KK: Oh that's interesting.
RF: Yeah, and uh but they they had a little grocery store there and so so myself and my brothers we
worked for them, worked in the store there and that sort of thing and uh…
KK: In Fennville, you know obviously where the downtown is and then you know, as you come west,
there’s, now it’s a parking lot but there’s a big empty area there, that’s you know, did that burn down?
What was there?
RF: No. Uh, well, at one time there was a bank on the uh, on the corner just uh, well it would be the
south, uh, south, uh, southeast corner.
KK: Yeah.
RF: …and then, and then no there was a hardware store quite a large hardware store, farm implements
on that corner and then next to that was a lumberyard…
KK: Oh!
RF: Yeah, going west and then next to that was the Fennville Herald newspaper house and it was real
small little newspaper office with, and they had to set the type by hand, it was quite a thing, and uh, uh
[pause] and then there was the business on the corner, Fennville tire but uh, yeah that was all
businesses in there and there were houses behind there was a row of houses.
KK: So what happened? Did it burn?
RF: No, no...
KK: They just tore it down?
RF: There were no fires, uh yeah, it just [pause] it they, they were very old and I’m not sure how, where
there was a [pause] in bad repair or the city bought it, I really don't know. I know the City now owns
that, a large chunk of that land and uh, the uh Salt of the Earth uses part of it for a parking lot or other
businesses but uh, yeah, there was a…
KK: I’m glad to know that, I always wondered…
RF: ...In the 60’s, in the 60’s it was a uh, it had had, a real upturn in economy, the canning factory was
going great guns, three shifts, and uh, and uh, employment was high and uh a lot of migrant workers
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
15
were there in the summer and on weekends streets were full of people and uh, and then it kind of went
down in the 70’s and 80’s and then that's just starting to come back again, yeah.
KK: That’s very, very interesting. You have over here, that you said that you have a boat picture here?
RF: Yeah this, this photo here [pause] this little sail boat was owned by a man named uh, Leo Tucker,
and he was a fruit farmer uh, down by, on Hutchins lake and, and the name of the boat was the Kit Kat
but it, it has a nice shot of the pavilion…
KK: ...Oh, it looks wonderful!
RF: ...and uh, and the uh, Coral Gables, and uh and uh this photo is my grandmother, uh, Otto Hines’
wife, Edith and it’s on top of Mount Bald Head and I’m going to say it’s not long after the pavilion was
built, she was born in the 1870’s, late 1870’s so, she was a young woman but uh, you can see one of the
large posts there, and uh, but you can see the pavilion and, and the two uh, [pause], parks….
[00:40:11]
KK: ...and I love that you can see the old bridge…
RF: Yes! The old bridge, yes...
KK: The old bridge is still there…
RF: Yeah, and so, and I did get this blown up and I’ve got a beautiful framed picture at home, those are
my grandparents there, and uh, they were farmers their whole lives, and uh, when this, when their farm
was built it was the first farm on that street 126th from 66th to Blue Star and that road was known as
Hines Road.
KK: Oh, really?
RF: Yeah.
KK: Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, so you're lucky to have such nice photos…
RF: ...Yeah I am very lucky, these are, this is uh, uh a later picture with some vineyards in the front and
they moved the windmill to the back of the house, and er the well and uh, but uh, it was still horse and
buggy days, you can see buggy tracks here and uh, uh yeah that's pretty much…
KK: ...Really really wonderful, thank you for bringing those.
RF: Well…
KK: ...Do you have any more questions, that you have Eric, that were on the list that we were supposed
to ask?
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
16
EG: No, we moved through a good list of things. Lots of really great things some things we haven't heard
before…
RF: ...Well thanks…
EG: ...or that compliment things…
KK: Yeah no, it's fun and I’m, I’m going to get you together with Joan Northrup…
RF: Okay! I’d like that.
KK: Yeah.
EG: Anything else you’d like to say?
RF: Well, here's one thing I’d like to add. You know the pavilion was, was such a highlight of the, uh, my
parents and my, my grandfather Otto, he knew one of the uh, one of the uh, managers or something so
he could always get in, and he had four daughters so, I’m assuming they all got in, that would be six
people but at that time in history, and I don't know if you folks have ever heard this before, but and I, I
don’t bring it up to sound like I’m uh, anti-Semite or anything like that but, the seats were, were marked
‘Gentiles’ for Gentiles and for Jews and one time, I don't know if it was a little crowded or what but my
grandfather sat in a place where it said ‘For Jews’ and my mother will never forget this, she says a
woman came by and just sat right on his lap until he got up.
KK: No, there are, there are a lot of stories, it was very anti-Semitic, uh in Saugatuck and uh…
RF: ...Well, yeah, I don’t, I’m not aware of the uh, I know it was, there was a separation there…
KK: Yeah…
RF: But…
KK: They were not allowed, the Jews were not allowed to stay in a lot of the hotels…
RF: Oh, really?
KK: Yeah
RF: Okay
KK: Yeah, there’s some, there's some interesting, uh records of that and um, but uh that’s one story I
have not heard.
RF: Yeah
KK: I guess, I guess a lot would’ve come over on those boats, you know what I mean?
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
17
RF: From Chicago.
KK: From Chicago, yes, so you’d have to accommodate it.
RF: There were a few that uh, a few that were, that lived here. There were a few Jews that stayed here,
that were, almost like natives and uh, of course South Haven had a…
KK: Yes…
RF: ...had a larger population of that and uh, [pause] uh, the, the old Glen Shores Golf Club, I know this
because my Dad was best man with one of the sons of the owner who, who started the business just
before the depression and uh, he had big plans for it and everything and some of the print outs of uh,
advertising and everything he advertised it as a Christian place and he, he had a very subtle way of
saying, the, the Jews weren't necessarily welcome.
KK: It’s hard to imagine…
RF: ...It’s a novelty, it’s uh, it’s uh, it was a different world back then, and it was long before World War
Two.
EG: Do you remember much, and thinking along those same lines, do you remember much uh, African
American, People of Color in Saugatuck Douglas area?
RF: No, I don't. In, in school when I was growing up uh, we had two or three families and that was it and
uh, [pause] uh, [pause] um, [pause] I really don’t, I really don’t no.
EG: Not much, not much reaction…
[00:45:01]
RF: ...Oh no, no, uh, no not at all, uh, there was uh, there was a Jamaican man who worked for one of
the farmers there and I knew him a little bit. He used to come into town every, every uh every Saturday
to buy his groceries and he, his skin was almost purple you know he, he was very dark, and but he was
Jamaican and he uh, a good natured person and uh, hard working person and uh, he about the only uh,
man of color that we would see. The uh, Spanish, er uh, I shouldn't say Spanish I should say the Mexican
population, we always called them Spanish [pause] for some reason but Mexican is what they were, but
Mexican didn't sound right so people said Spanish for some reason...
KK: ...Well probably because that’s what they spoke…
RF: ...I suppose that’s it, and so, they started uh, their numbers have rapidly increased uh, in uh, in
recent years, and there were always Spanish people in school with us. Saugatuck was a little different,
that was a little more unique, it was a little more [pause] all [pause] Anglo, all uh, all white. Even to this
day it’s more that way, but uh…
KK: ...Well that’s really interesting.
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
18
EG: One other question that I’ve asked people as we’ve done these recordings. So we’re saving these,
with the idea that these will be around 50 plus years from now, so uh, thinking ahead, imagining
someone listening to this in uh, 2068 uh, are there, is there anything you’d like them to know about your
life or the community here, as it is today?
RF: I can just say that, that I can’t complain about anything, I learned a good work ethic, working for my
grandparents and uh, and my parents taught me a good work ethic and uh, I think that was a big benefit
for me growing into adulthood but on the other side, I got to see, I got to see a great community kind of
evolve into a more modern day, uh, [pause] uh, [pause] place and, and those are great memories, but I
also have the memories that my parents and grandparents uh, told me about how it was back then in
the horse and buggy days and uh, but uh, [pause] I guess I’d just like to say that it was a great place to
grow up, uh, a great place to experience. The summers were uh, the winters were kind of brutal but the
summers were, summers were great, and uh, Lake Michigan, to have Lake Michigan and uh, the sand
dunes and uh, [pause] the river and everything it was a great experience and uh, no regrets.
KK: Good!
RF: I guess that I would regret that I didn't ask more questions uh, to my grandparents, uh, to try to
absorb a little more information but uh, uh, but uh, other than that I have no regrets. It was great, and I
love being able to talk to someone that experienced the same things I did, and uh, relate to the same
things, those are always fun, but uh, this historical society is doing everything it can to preserve these
things and, I, I salute them for that, that's a great thing.
KK: Well thank you very much!
RF: Thank you.
EG: You're more than welcome. Alright, well with that, that will conclude this interview. Thanks again.
RF: Thank you.
[00:49:24]
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1910s-2010s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Various
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Douglas (Mich.)
Michigan, Lake
Allegan County (Mich.)
Beaches
Sand dunes
Outdoor recreation
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Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
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Saugatuck-Douglas History Center
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Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
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image/jpeg
application/pdf
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Image
Text
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English
Date
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2018
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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DC-07_SD-FosterR-20180723
Creator
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Foster, Raymond Edward
Date
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2018-07-23
Title
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Raymond Foster (Audio interview and transcript), 2018
Description
An account of the resource
Ray Foster grew up on a family farm near Douglas, Michigan. In this interivew, Foster remembers the motorcycle gangs driving through town during summer holiday weekends, the rock music festival in 1968, and the Saugatuck Jazz Festival.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Gollannek, Eric (Interviewer)
Kutzel, Ken (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Douglas (Mich.)
Holland (Mich.)
Allegan County (Mich.)
Outdoor recreation
Beaches
Music festivals
Motorcycle gangs
Oral history
Audio recordings
Source
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Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Relation
A related resource
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
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Sound
Text
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audio/mp3
application/pdf
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eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/db8462c35ad32452ff7324f39ea86cb6.mp3
62c69cbe0fe79a2ddf83b73ef83dfe14
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/32031d4de500d0428317ac079225cfb1.pdf
c87722305ca0dc1b45b4fdcf09667ae9
PDF Text
Text
Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
1
Eric Gollannek: This is Eric Gollannek and I...
Ken Kutzel: …and Ken Kutzel…
EG: …and I’m here today with…
Ray Foster: Ray Foster.
EG: Uh, at the old school house in Douglas, Michigan on July 23rd, uh, 2018. This oral history is being
collected as part of the Stories of Summer Project, which is supported in part by a grant from the
National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Program. Thank you for taking the time to
meet with us today, we’re interested in learning more about your family’s history, in particular
experiences of summer. Can you please state your full name and spell it for us?
RF: Raymond Edward Foster, R A Y M O N D, E D W A R D, F O S T E R
EG: That’s great, alright, so we’ll, we’ll continue our conversation here, you brought in a few things here
about your farm, you want to tell us a little bit about where it is and…
RF: Well this, this was kind of a family farm, um, my mother, mothers’ parents and uh, her grandparents
uh, um, bought eighty acres. They came from Chicago in the late 1800’s and uh, bought eighty acres uh,
near the corner of 66th street and uh, 126th and uh, they [pause] they farmed it and uh, [pause] uh, a
lot of different things. They had blueberries and raspberries and uh, they had 20 head of cattle and uh,
chickens and uh, at different times, different things, uh. Through the years and uh, they raised four
daughters, my mother was the oldest and uh, [pause] she spent, she was the last one to leave the farm.
The other daughters grew up, we got married and then before World War Two, and then my mother got
married after World War Two and uh, so she spent more time on the farm. But as I was growing, when I
grew up and [pause] I, I stayed there with my grandparents. They were in good health and uh, help them
do things [pause] and uh, but mainly just really enjoyed the place. And uh, it was uh, just a just a
beautiful retreat, and uh, a lot of great place to explore and uh, [pause] uh, [long pause]
KK: Is the house still standing?
RF: The house is still standing, it’s had several owners since then, and uh, but uh, [pause] but it’s been,
it’s changed some. Uh, considerably. The house, the outside structure’s pretty much the same but it has
a garage added to it, but uh, and uh…
KK: I noticed it says here that that’s the Hines homestead?
RF: Yes...
KK: Is that what it was called?
RF: Well yes, my, [stutters] I, I, I didn’t mention that but my, my great grandfather's name was Emo
Hines and he came from Chicago and he was not a farmer but he kind of adopted the, the [stutters] hob
hobby, but he had just one son, Otto who was my, my uh grandfather and my great grandfather was a
German immigrant and uh, [pause] he uh, [pause] along with his son uh, they kind of developed the
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
2
land. They planted fruit trees and grape vineyards and, and uh, and raised cattle, and tilled the soil with
a team of horses and uh, um, [pause] it was a [pause] a [pause] a labor of love I think, uh, uh, they uh, it
stayed in the family till the 70’s and uh, so ah, let’s see where can I go from there uh, but I, but I, I spent
a lot of time there in the 60’s, the 50’s and 60’s and uh, [pause] and uh, [pause] well…
KK: How ‘bout, give another...tell us, you, the other day when we spoke with you. You started to tell us a
story about one time when you were on the farm and the motorcycles came in...
RF: Oh!
KK: Would you talk about that please?
RF: No, actually that was at my parents’ house…
KK: Oh!
RF: ...on M89 east of Fennville.
KK: Well let’s talk about that anyway!
[00:04:39]
RF: Okay! Sure! Well it was probably ‘65 ‘66, maybe ‘64 ‘65 ‘66, [pause] I think by ‘67-’68 it kind of
fizzled out. But, on a Memorial Day weekend or Fourth of July weekend, uh, you could hear, hear from a
long ways away this, this sound of motorcycles coming, and there was long strings of them, and various,
[stutters] grou-groups, probably a dozen in a group or so, maybe more, and they came from Detroit,
Flint, and uh, [pause] uh, mainly east, on the other, eastern side of the state, but uh, I guess I could
describe them as a colorful group. They weren't, they weren't necessarily uh, like uh, social club they
were, they more of, of an old [stutters] I I I don’t want to make a comparison to the Hell’s Angels but
they were, they were kind of that style. Uh, their, their jackets on the back had, had little titles like uh
‘Disciples from Hell’ or ‘Hell’s Disciples’ or that sort of thing. That theme was very popular, and uh, but
when I was able to go to Saugatuck, uh, on those weekends it was incredibly busy, they would actually,
unless you could prove you lived there they wouldn’t let you in they would stop at the top of the hill,
they wouldn’t let cars down. And, the motorcycles would be rode up the entire like, from Phil’s all the
way down to the corner and uh, they um, [pause] they would pretty much take over the town. As, as
strange as that might sound, and and the police were, were usually, it wasn’t like today, they were, it
was a small police force and they might rent a few, we referred to ‘them as Rent-a-Cops because they
were just hired for that special occasion. And uh, I’m, I’m not aware of any major, uh, conflicts that uh,
that occurred. There may have been some but I wasn’t really aware of anything, like a, any kind of a
small riot or anything like that. I wasn't aware of anything like that but, but as a teenager it was quite a
novelty to see that. To be exposed to that, and uh, [pause] so, [pause] um, [pause] well, that was pretty
much it, I mean uh, just, just to see it, holiday was over they were gone…
KK: Did that happen every weekend? Or…
RF: No, no, no. Just on, I only saw it on a holiday weekends, and uh, so, that was uh, kind of a, unique
thing.
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
3
EG: What were the reactions of your parents, or grandparents?
RF: Well you know I…
EG: Or neighbors to that?
RF: You know, as far as my, the uh, [pause] the [pause] my parents’ generation, I don’t think they uh, I
don’t think really could comprehend what was going on. I don’t, [stutters] I, I was never aware that they,
uh, it wasn’t something they were happy about, I’m sure, I I know that much but as far as uh, feeling
threatened or anything like that or, uh, [pause] they just, they just looked at it as some kind of a
temporary thing, a phase I think. I don’t think they thought of it as a, um, you know a…
EG: Collapse of civilization…
RF: [Laughs] Yeah! Sure, that, yeah. I’m sure they thought of something like that. Yeah….
KK: Although at that time, was the um, was the summer season, here in Saugatuck, I mean was it um, as
long as it is now, er, you know?
RF: Well, I think, I think I would say it is, um, people started coming up, [pause] um probably before
memorial day and, and um, to their cottages and such and uh, they pretty much stayed until after Labor
Day, shortly after Labor Day. Yeah, there was good numbers of people. It’s hard to make a comparison
between then and now, because things just look at a lot different. They appear a lot different.
KK: Why don’t you talk about that?
RF: Well, I, I guess I could say that, at that time, it was a very affordable place to go, for, for the average
middle class person, and [pause] even though it had a history [pause] from, that I had heard about, you
know ‘Well Saugatuck is really one of, a place you want to go because [stutters] they, they, they have
bars they stay open all night’ and um there’s that kind of atmosphere but, but as a young person, you,
you kind of want to be exposed to a little bit of that.
KK: Well sure!
All: [Laugh]
[00:09:54]
RF: Just to, just to find out for yourself and uh, but, that’s, that’s probably the most striking thing, and
the development, there’s much more development today. You could, you could see the water when you
came in off of, of Blue Start and came into town and you could see the water, uh all the way. There were
no condos or anything like that, and uh, uh, [pause] so, [pause] I hesitate using the word quaint, but if
you, if you were there in the winter you might call it that, but the summer there was a lot of people so it
wasn't really, it was more, it was a tourist town, it was strictly a tourist town. But uh, [pause] uh, the
Coral Gables was a really popular place at that time, very popular place. People would be lined up
waiting to get in, and uh, and [pause] uh, I do remember some scuffles out front just as a bystander
watching some people. Probably some unruly people getting thrown out, and those things kind of stick
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
4
in your head. But, uh, [pause] uh [pause] it was an evolution I guess, you know it just evolved from, you
know my parents’ generation, they probably would’ve saw something, even more, uh, more quaint I
guess you’d say, more slow paced and um,[pause] uh, but things have, thing have evolved to what they
are today and uh, it’s it is, but uh I suppose it’s relative in a way, but it is more, more expensive for the
average person to just go anywhere and spend some time in a, a restaurant or a bar.
EG: Beyond Coral Gables, were there other places that stood out to you? That you spent time, or…
RF: Well…
EG: Or stayed away from, or?
RF: Well the Butler and Coral Gables were always the biggest two, biggest items, and uh, everything else
was just really small. Like uh, there was a place called the Boathouse, and that was down at the end of
the street, across Wick’s Park, in that area, and uh, and uh, all the other little places were just um,
[pause] were lesser, and then, then I, one thing I remembered too in, in it may have been ‘68 or ‘67, you
guys might know, the Blue Tempo came in…
KK: Yes let’s talk about that
RF: Well, you know, as, as a, as a person growing up at that time, I didn’t even, I didn’t even understand
what uh, or fully understand what uh, [pause] um, what a gay, the whole concept of gay people was…
EG: Sure…
RF: So, uh, but I knew this was a unique place, and I knew it had, but, had I known more, in in hindsight, I
might of, might of tried to go there because I know they had great music, and uh, I’m a great uh,
admirer of that kind of, uh, music, and a great history for music and uh, but uh, [pause] uh because now,
as a 70 year uh, and having lived in the area, or known people in the area for a long time, that whole uh,
uh, [pause] uh, shall I say the [pause] the gay scene, is is a, it doesn't, it doesn't even leave an impression
on me anymore.
KK: It’s become part of the culture.
RF: It’s part of the culture, and uh, so, but, but it was always know as a unique place. It was the location
was unique and uh, everybody knew that this was a gay bar, and uh, and uh, so, I wish I could tell you I’d
been there and experienced it but I, I can’t. A friend of mine was there and I only get bits and pieces
from him, but uh, [pause] uh [pause] but uh.
EG: What were some of the reactions or things that people, other people’s reactions or things that
you’ve heard about?
RF: About…
EG: [Inaudible]
RF: About, concerning that?
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
5
EG: Yeah!
Ray: Ah, [pause] you know, people uh, were not really very activist type people at that time. Most
people, you know, they went about their own business and if something new came along, well they
talked about it, but as far as being a [pause] being a objectionable thing or a something that really
disturbed people. People just kind of...after a while it just blew by.
[00:15:14]
KK: [Inaudible]
RF: Yeah, and uh, so, the reaction, my impression of the reaction wasn’t, wasn’t anything really big.
EG: Just another bar, another club that has good music and we’re probably not going there. That kind
of…
RF: That kind of reaction.
EG: That kind of reaction?
RF: That kind of a thing yeah, that’s fair to say. Yeah.
KK: You know um, a question I have for you, being a Douglas resident myself, uh, what are your
memories of the Douglas side?
RF: Well, I occasionally, I would go there with my uh, grandparents occasionally. There was, there was a
little grocery store down on the end of the street towards the river, uh, where uh, um [pause] well there
was a little novelty store there near Naughtons...
KK: Yeah.
RF: Near Naughtons store there, that at one time there was a grocery store there…
KK: Was that Vansicles?
RF: Vansicles, yes! And they would go there occasionally, and uh, [pause] and we would also pick uh,
they they raised uh, raspberries so we would pick raspberries and we would bring them into town and
right where the park is, where the ballpark is there was a man, a vendor there, [pause] and uh, he would
take all we had and uh, he would sell them to the tourists and uh, gosh, just trying to remember his
name now, he had a son who was blind [pause] um, [long pause] gah!
KK: Well it’s alright, it will come to you when you’re not thinking about it.
RF: Right. But anyway it was a, so we did that, we would hang out there for a while but at that time,
across the street, the uh, there was uh, a Catholic School there too. So we knew the, we knew about
that, and at that time the original Catholic Church wasn’t St. Peter's it was just down the street.
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
6
KK: Right.
RF: And uh, one little side light to that, I have a, uh, my dad [pause] had an uncle and uh, I [pause] and
he was the first baby to be baptized there, and I should’ve brought the name, the baptized name was all
the little organizations in town gave him a name and when he went back many years later he was
embarrassed because they mentioned him, and brought him, and mentioned him and everything but his
baptized name was uh, Peter Paul Benedict, uh, Jacob Ivan, [pause] Clark and uh, and they all gave him a
name so, it was, it was an embarrassing thing for him as an adult. But uh, he did happen to be the first
baby that was baptized there uh, he was a part of a large family that was also in the area. But [pause]
but it was a, it was a, it was a incredibly quiet quaint little town. Just down the street there was a place
called the Delicatessen and a man named Red Delky owned it and he had a baker working for him that
was a refugee from Austria, a World War Two refugee, and an incredibly talented pastry chef and
anybody my age can tell you, that lived in the area that they made the best bread and uh, and uh, uh
[pause] sweet rolls and that sort of thing uh, that you could find anywhere. And uh, and uh, down a little
bit further there was a little drug store so it was a, really a, had everything.
KK: [Inaudible}
RF: Just a little town! And uh, I uh, I would also go on Friday night, quite often on Friday night with my
grandparents, near the corner of uh, Blue Star and uh, Maple Street, uh going to the north. There was a
house on the right hand side, at one time it was a resort, owned by my grandfather's uncle, Fred Hines
and [pause] they would pick up people, you would pick up people that came in on the boats and then
bring them back to the resort and uh, his wife would uh, do the housekeeping and uh, he was just
mainly just took them around town to the beach or wherever they wanted to go and uh, but, they had a
little resort there. So but, in later years when I went there with my grandparents, the uh, the next
generation down lived there, my, would be a cousin to my grandmother, grandparents, er grandfather
and uh, so we would just go there, spend some time there with them, they would uh, talk about old
times and that sort of thing, and uh, but uh, it was just [pause] a nice quiet little visit. But uh, I don't
know, what else can I tell you?
[00:20:46]
KK: Do you remember the, uh, the rock festival at all? Were you involved in that, or?
RF: I did go to the one at uh, near Goshorn Lake…
KK: Okay, that’s Potawatomi Beach, right?
RF: Potawatomi Beach, yes. Uh, yes, I did go to that in ‘68, I believe
KK: I believe that’s what it was….
RF: I think it was in ‘68, and it was hot and dry and sandy roads and people would, uh, it was [inaudible]
it was incredibly crowded and uh, you couldn’t get close to the band stand, it was just uh, again there
was, there was that large influx of uh, motorcycle people and they kind of dominated an area there, but
uh, so you could hear things from a distance unless you, unless you somehow got there real early and
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
7
worked your way in, but it was kind of a phenomenon I guess because the volume of people, yeah I
think I, I think I read where cars were lined up all the way from, from that park all the way to the bridge
at the river…
KK: I have heard that….
RF: It’s hard to imagine…
KK: Yeah
EG: Right
RF: So, and then they decided they’d never do that again, but uh, the history of those types of things
are, is, is great. I mean when it goes back to uh, when they had a pavilion and then it’s the uh, got that
racetrack…
KK: Right…
RF: But uh, I do remember, uh, probably the late 50’s when they had a Jazz Festival, the Saugatuck Jazz
Festival, uh, at the racetrack there and uh, Duke Ellington and a few other celebrities were there and my
grandparents farm was kind of a, like a mile south of there, on 126th and uh, just about half a mile from
the corner of Blue Star and 126th, and with the windows open at night, I remember them introducing
Duke Ellington and them mentioning his name, that always stuck in my, stuck with me forever after that.
I thought, wow what would’ve been so great to be there…
KK: And that sound would carry over because it was all farms…
RF: Yes.
KK: Yeah.
RF: Pretty, quite open at that time.
EG: So you could hear? You could hear music and….
RF: I could, yes, yeah, not really well but some, yeah.
EG: Yeah.
RF: And prior to that it was a stock car track, a little dirt stock car track and there was uh, um, uh, auto
racing there. It was quite, for many years, it went on but uh, I never experienced that, I wish I had but
uh, [pause] um [pause]
KK: Any contact, uh at all, or anything you can share about contact with Oxbow or the people from
there?
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
8
RF: No, I never really knew about Oxbow until later I, I consider myself an art lover but I, I never really
knew about it. I wish that I had known more about it at a younger age but it’s a, it’s a great great thing
to have in the area.
KK: Yeah, it was more a private club…
RF: Way back!
KK: And it's interesting that you bring that up because you're not the first person who said ‘We really
didn't pay attention to it’.
RF: No, I never really knew much about it, till later years, and uh, but uh...
EG: Do you remember much of seeing many artists around? Seeing people painting in town, in Douglas
or Saugatuck, or?
RF: No, I always knew it was an art, artsy community but I didn't spend much time, you know, going
from shop to shop, I uh, really at that point in my life, I wasn't really that, I was more, uh, driving your
car, go to the beach, and uh that sort of thing, uh, and getting together with people, but uh, the art,
[pause] I know it existed but I never, I was never exposed to it.
[00:25:16]
KK: Then, what was the beach like then?
RF: Oh, it was great! Uh, there was, there was of course the Oval Beach, but then, the Douglas, Douglas
had a beach, and then there was several beach on down, uh, there were then. I never remembered big
crowds there like today. I have seen some photographs of big crowds but uh, but uh, it was a they were,
they were fairly well kept up and uh, and uh, it was quite a thing to go the Oval Beach was uh, was really
quite a special thing.
KK: Were you guys aware at all of the nude beach? Or did that come later?
RF: You know, I wasn't aware of that, I heard about it, no I heard about it. I did hear about it as a uh,
probably in the late 60’s I heard about it.
KK: Okay.
RF: But uh, that’s really the end of it there, I, I uh, wasn’t curious about that.
KK: Yeah, yeah. Had, had you ever been out on that Denison property with all those dunes?
RF: Yes! I have!
KK: Yeah that’s kind of, well talk about that a little bit, because that I think has to be seen to be believed.
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
9
RF: Well, its, its south of the mouth of the river. I, I did walk that and to the, to the uh, old light house, in
that area, and that's great. That was great country to explore and to follow it all the way up to the, to
bald head and then back down, it was a great, great experience and very natural area and uh, you could
see the old pilings in, in the pine and that little, where the channel was…
KK: Yeah, the lagoon, yeah.
RF: ...and the lagoon yeah and uh, and then uh, well of course there was the pier you could walk out on
that, but [pause] uh, [pause] it was a, you I considered it a great area, beautiful area but I never got to
the north side there north side of the channel where the Denison’s property was I never really saw that.
Uh…
KK: Well it was hard to get out there, always had to take that dug road…
RF: Yeah, Dugout road, yeah. I, my mother, in later years uh worked for uh Ken Denison and planted, I
think, she and another lady cleaned the boats when it was, when it, when they were in business out
there at the end and….
KK: You're talking Broward Marine…
RF: Broward Marine, yes, and, and they uh, uh, my mother planted a whole row of daffodils along the
bank there and was around long enough to see how nice they looked and uh, and uh, she thought the
Denison’s were great people, generous people and uh, [pause] uh, [pause] uh, [pause] only knew, she
knew the dad some but knew Ken more uh, but uh, never, I, I don’t know if the big house was built at
that time but there was a house there along with the uh, the [pause] marina and the business, but uh,
[pause] um, [pause]. The uh, [pause] well going back to the farm there uh, back then all the roads were
dirt roads pretty much uh, they hadn’t paved a lot of the roads there and uh, so you uh, that was a
[pause] a back in time compared to how it is today.
KK: Yeah, where did you go to school?
RF: I did go to school in Fennville that's where my family actually lived.
KK: So was it the old high school there, or?
RF: I did go in the old, to the old high school for a couple years, before it was uh, not used anymore but
uh, uh…
KK: And what about for a grade school was in Fennville also?
RF: Yep, that was also in Fennville, yeah, uh…
KK: I'm going to ask you a funny question…
RF: ...no, no it’s fine.
KK: Did, did you have Mrs. Northrup for any…
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
RF: Yes! Yes I did! [Laughs]
KK: [Laughs] Oh, that’s, so, she’s a real good close of mine, and um…
RF: Oh my gosh, how old is she?
KK: She’s about 93, er um, yep. She has dinner at my house every Monday, in fact she’ll be over
tonight…
[00:30:03]
RF: Really?
KK: I’ll have to mention you.
RF: She was my third grade teacher.
KK: But its, its, she, I was just telling, ah, somebody today uh, we go out with her quite often and no
matter where we go, she’s had every person…
RF: Oh, no doubt.
KK: She taught at, yeah, she taught in Fennville.
RF: Yes.
KK: Oh that’s kind of wonderful.
RF: She was a sweet lady, I, I can tell you that.
KK: And it was her family that owned, uh Sunny Shore.
RF: Oh, really?
KK: On [inaudible] the river road.
RF: See I thought, I thought they lived more out on the...south.
KK: They lived in Allegan, but it was her husband’s family that went there as kids.
RF: Okay, and she did have a son, that's true. Is that true? Yes?
KK: Ah, yep, yeah uh [inaudible] Jeff!
RF: Okay.
10
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
11
KK: Her son Jeff, he’s still around.
RF: Alright, alright.
KK: Yeah.
RF: Yeah.
KK: It’s a small world!
RF: Oh! It’s a lot smaller than you realize if you, if we really, I mean it, when I look at this, or even a
newer one I, I know so many of the people on these placards or I’m familiar with them.
KK: Well, it’s a small area, really.
RF: Yeah, well, for example uh, uh, this farm here this Ed Work farm…
KK: Mhm
RF: Mrs. Work, Mary Work, she was a teacher in the Saugatuck Douglas area for many years but then
she taught in Fennville. She, she uh, her family, her dads family were, were involved in the uh, basket
factory.
KK: Okay.
RF: The name, you probably have seen it.
KK: Yep!
RF: In concern, in relation to the basket factory, and uh, so and she she donated a ton of really great
photos of uh, the history of the area, I’m sure they’re in the archives.
KK: I’m sure they’re in the, I’m sure they’re in the collection.
EG: [Inaudible]
RF: Yeah they’re great.
KK: Well that's, that great, um, let’s see. Uh, well you brought a couple of other photos here so, why
don't we take a look, why don't you tell us, I see uh…
RF: Well, I have, I have to show you this photo here. This photo, and Mrs. Northrup would remember
this…
KK: I should’ve brought her!
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
12
RF: Well, anyway, this house is no longer there but if you're on the river road there, you go past where
sunny side...
KK: Sunny Shore, yeah.
RF: and you keep going East to, there’s a curve, where 62nd…
KK: Yep!
RF: ...Where...
KK: I know exactly where it is.
RF: This house used to be right on that, on the right hand side of that property. That property went way
back to a family named Purdy…
KK: Okay…
RF: Uh, Erastus Purdy he was a civil war veteran and he, he owned that property and they had a landing
down below, on the river uh, and a man named uh, one of his sons [inaudible] Purdy they had a boat
named after him, and uh he he was kind of a, well I don't know if it was just a tourist, tourist boat or if it
was a working boat, but anyway they had a landing there and uh, were I think way back there was
actually a trading post there, on that location right down below….
KK: Could be, yeah, because that's, you know, Mac’s Landing is down from there…
RF: Yes! Yeah, right it has, there's an association between that and Mac’s Landing…
KK: Okay…
RF: But uh…
KK: Yeah, that's very interesting.
RF: Yeah.
KK: That already looks like it had fallen on hard time there…
RF: Oh yes! Yes.
KK: Is that sand or is that snow in front? Is that a little bit of snow?
RF: It is snow.
EG: It looks like snow, yeah.
KK: Yeah it looks like it because I don't see uh, leaves on the tree there.
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
13
RF: But I’m sure it was a beautiful house at one time.
KK: Yeah!
EG: Yeah, lots of great shingle work in the gables and on the octagonal bay. Queen Anne revival…
RF: The uh, one of the daughters her, think it was her granddaughter of the original owner, her name
was Purdy and she had a friend of uh, she had somebody drive her to Saugatuck or wherever she
wanted to go, and the car was a Pierce-Arrow.
KK: Oh!
RF: Was a beautiful old Pierce-Arrow and uh my mother always remembered that because it, nobody
had a Pierce-Arrow.
KK: You know what, gosh, Joan Northrup told me a story about that car.
RF: I’ll bet.
KK: Yeah, and I, bet you she, she knew who the people were.
RF: Oh she would know that, yes! I know who the, uh, driver was the driver man’s name was uh, Cleo
Art and he lived just down, down 62nd, er 66th street there he had a farm down there and uh, he was
the driver and whenever she wanted to go somewhere, he would take her. But uh…
[00:35:04]
KK: That's great!
RF: Yeah.
KK: Tell us about your family, do you have children, er?
RF: I have two sons, yes!
KK: Okay.
RF: and uh, they don't live in the area, one’s in Rhode Island and ones in Grand Rapids, but uh, and they
they visit, or we visit them but uh, uh, but my family my mother uh, married a man from Fennville and
they started a little uh, my my dad and my uncle in the, actually before World War Two in the late 30’s
they started a little Mom and Pop grocery store meat market right on the main street where the Salt of
the Earth is…
KK: Oh! Okay!
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
14
RF: Yeah that was a, and then there’s a stairway going upstairs and then just to the, to the left of that
was a little clothing store which was operated by by um my dad and my uncles father, and he had that
since the uh early 20’s and uh then it was inherited by the next son and he ran it until the uh, late 60’s
and then my uh my dad and my uncle uh, when they were drafted in World War Two they, let the
people, the uh, there was a, there was a two brothers that uh, they purchased it, purchased it from they
took it back over again and ran it until they got back from the service and they took it back again.
KK: Oh that's interesting.
RF: Yeah, and uh but they they had a little grocery store there and so so myself and my brothers we
worked for them, worked in the store there and that sort of thing and uh…
KK: In Fennville, you know obviously where the downtown is and then you know, as you come west,
there’s, now it’s a parking lot but there’s a big empty area there, that’s you know, did that burn down?
What was there?
RF: No. Uh, well, at one time there was a bank on the uh, on the corner just uh, well it would be the
south, uh, south, uh, southeast corner.
KK: Yeah.
RF: …and then, and then no there was a hardware store quite a large hardware store, farm implements
on that corner and then next to that was a lumberyard…
KK: Oh!
RF: Yeah, going west and then next to that was the Fennville Herald newspaper house and it was real
small little newspaper office with, and they had to set the type by hand, it was quite a thing, and uh, uh
[pause] and then there was the business on the corner, Fennville tire but uh, yeah that was all
businesses in there and there were houses behind there was a row of houses.
KK: So what happened? Did it burn?
RF: No, no...
KK: They just tore it down?
RF: There were no fires, uh yeah, it just [pause] it they, they were very old and I’m not sure how, where
there was a [pause] in bad repair or the city bought it, I really don't know. I know the City now owns
that, a large chunk of that land and uh, the uh Salt of the Earth uses part of it for a parking lot or other
businesses but uh, yeah, there was a…
KK: I’m glad to know that, I always wondered…
RF: ...In the 60’s, in the 60’s it was a uh, it had had, a real upturn in economy, the canning factory was
going great guns, three shifts, and uh, and uh, employment was high and uh a lot of migrant workers
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
15
were there in the summer and on weekends streets were full of people and uh, and then it kind of went
down in the 70’s and 80’s and then that's just starting to come back again, yeah.
KK: That’s very, very interesting. You have over here, that you said that you have a boat picture here?
RF: Yeah this, this photo here [pause] this little sail boat was owned by a man named uh, Leo Tucker,
and he was a fruit farmer uh, down by, on Hutchins lake and, and the name of the boat was the Kit Kat
but it, it has a nice shot of the pavilion…
KK: ...Oh, it looks wonderful!
RF: ...and uh, and the uh, Coral Gables, and uh and uh this photo is my grandmother, uh, Otto Hines’
wife, Edith and it’s on top of Mount Bald Head and I’m going to say it’s not long after the pavilion was
built, she was born in the 1870’s, late 1870’s so, she was a young woman but uh, you can see one of the
large posts there, and uh, but you can see the pavilion and, and the two uh, [pause], parks….
[00:40:11]
KK: ...and I love that you can see the old bridge…
RF: Yes! The old bridge, yes...
KK: The old bridge is still there…
RF: Yeah, and so, and I did get this blown up and I’ve got a beautiful framed picture at home, those are
my grandparents there, and uh, they were farmers their whole lives, and uh, when this, when their farm
was built it was the first farm on that street 126th from 66th to Blue Star and that road was known as
Hines Road.
KK: Oh, really?
RF: Yeah.
KK: Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, so you're lucky to have such nice photos…
RF: ...Yeah I am very lucky, these are, this is uh, uh a later picture with some vineyards in the front and
they moved the windmill to the back of the house, and er the well and uh, but uh, it was still horse and
buggy days, you can see buggy tracks here and uh, uh yeah that's pretty much…
KK: ...Really really wonderful, thank you for bringing those.
RF: Well…
KK: ...Do you have any more questions, that you have Eric, that were on the list that we were supposed
to ask?
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
16
EG: No, we moved through a good list of things. Lots of really great things some things we haven't heard
before…
RF: ...Well thanks…
EG: ...or that compliment things…
KK: Yeah no, it's fun and I’m, I’m going to get you together with Joan Northrup…
RF: Okay! I’d like that.
KK: Yeah.
EG: Anything else you’d like to say?
RF: Well, here's one thing I’d like to add. You know the pavilion was, was such a highlight of the, uh, my
parents and my, my grandfather Otto, he knew one of the uh, one of the uh, managers or something so
he could always get in, and he had four daughters so, I’m assuming they all got in, that would be six
people but at that time in history, and I don't know if you folks have ever heard this before, but and I, I
don’t bring it up to sound like I’m uh, anti-Semite or anything like that but, the seats were, were marked
‘Gentiles’ for Gentiles and for Jews and one time, I don't know if it was a little crowded or what but my
grandfather sat in a place where it said ‘For Jews’ and my mother will never forget this, she says a
woman came by and just sat right on his lap until he got up.
KK: No, there are, there are a lot of stories, it was very anti-Semitic, uh in Saugatuck and uh…
RF: ...Well, yeah, I don’t, I’m not aware of the uh, I know it was, there was a separation there…
KK: Yeah…
RF: But…
KK: They were not allowed, the Jews were not allowed to stay in a lot of the hotels…
RF: Oh, really?
KK: Yeah
RF: Okay
KK: Yeah, there’s some, there's some interesting, uh records of that and um, but uh that’s one story I
have not heard.
RF: Yeah
KK: I guess, I guess a lot would’ve come over on those boats, you know what I mean?
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
17
RF: From Chicago.
KK: From Chicago, yes, so you’d have to accommodate it.
RF: There were a few that uh, a few that were, that lived here. There were a few Jews that stayed here,
that were, almost like natives and uh, of course South Haven had a…
KK: Yes…
RF: ...had a larger population of that and uh, [pause] uh, the, the old Glen Shores Golf Club, I know this
because my Dad was best man with one of the sons of the owner who, who started the business just
before the depression and uh, he had big plans for it and everything and some of the print outs of uh,
advertising and everything he advertised it as a Christian place and he, he had a very subtle way of
saying, the, the Jews weren't necessarily welcome.
KK: It’s hard to imagine…
RF: ...It’s a novelty, it’s uh, it’s uh, it was a different world back then, and it was long before World War
Two.
EG: Do you remember much, and thinking along those same lines, do you remember much uh, African
American, People of Color in Saugatuck Douglas area?
RF: No, I don't. In, in school when I was growing up uh, we had two or three families and that was it and
uh, [pause] uh, [pause] um, [pause] I really don’t, I really don’t no.
EG: Not much, not much reaction…
[00:45:01]
RF: ...Oh no, no, uh, no not at all, uh, there was uh, there was a Jamaican man who worked for one of
the farmers there and I knew him a little bit. He used to come into town every, every uh every Saturday
to buy his groceries and he, his skin was almost purple you know he, he was very dark, and but he was
Jamaican and he uh, a good natured person and uh, hard working person and uh, he about the only uh,
man of color that we would see. The uh, Spanish, er uh, I shouldn't say Spanish I should say the Mexican
population, we always called them Spanish [pause] for some reason but Mexican is what they were, but
Mexican didn't sound right so people said Spanish for some reason...
KK: ...Well probably because that’s what they spoke…
RF: ...I suppose that’s it, and so, they started uh, their numbers have rapidly increased uh, in uh, in
recent years, and there were always Spanish people in school with us. Saugatuck was a little different,
that was a little more unique, it was a little more [pause] all [pause] Anglo, all uh, all white. Even to this
day it’s more that way, but uh…
KK: ...Well that’s really interesting.
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
18
EG: One other question that I’ve asked people as we’ve done these recordings. So we’re saving these,
with the idea that these will be around 50 plus years from now, so uh, thinking ahead, imagining
someone listening to this in uh, 2068 uh, are there, is there anything you’d like them to know about your
life or the community here, as it is today?
RF: I can just say that, that I can’t complain about anything, I learned a good work ethic, working for my
grandparents and uh, and my parents taught me a good work ethic and uh, I think that was a big benefit
for me growing into adulthood but on the other side, I got to see, I got to see a great community kind of
evolve into a more modern day, uh, [pause] uh, [pause] place and, and those are great memories, but I
also have the memories that my parents and grandparents uh, told me about how it was back then in
the horse and buggy days and uh, but uh, [pause] I guess I’d just like to say that it was a great place to
grow up, uh, a great place to experience. The summers were uh, the winters were kind of brutal but the
summers were, summers were great, and uh, Lake Michigan, to have Lake Michigan and uh, the sand
dunes and uh, [pause] the river and everything it was a great experience and uh, no regrets.
KK: Good!
RF: I guess that I would regret that I didn't ask more questions uh, to my grandparents, uh, to try to
absorb a little more information but uh, uh, but uh, other than that I have no regrets. It was great, and I
love being able to talk to someone that experienced the same things I did, and uh, relate to the same
things, those are always fun, but uh, this historical society is doing everything it can to preserve these
things and, I, I salute them for that, that's a great thing.
KK: Well thank you very much!
RF: Thank you.
EG: You're more than welcome. Alright, well with that, that will conclude this interview. Thanks again.
RF: Thank you.
[00:49:24]
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1910s-2010s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Various
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Douglas (Mich.)
Michigan, Lake
Allegan County (Mich.)
Beaches
Sand dunes
Outdoor recreation
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Contributor
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Saugatuck-Douglas History Center
Identifier
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Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
Format
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image/jpeg
application/pdf
Type
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Image
Text
Language
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English
Date
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2018
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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DC-07_SD-FosterR-20180723
Creator
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Foster, Raymond
Date
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2018-07-23
Title
A name given to the resource
Raymond Foster (Audio interview and transcript), 2018
Description
An account of the resource
Raymond Foster spent much of his summers at his grandarents' farm outside Saugatuck, Michigan. His memories include watching many groups of motorcycles enter Saugatuck in the mid- to late-1960s. He also recalls that the geography of the land around the farm allowed him to hear Duke Ellington play at a 1950s jazz festifal that was 1/2 mile away.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Gollannek, Eric (Interviewer)
Kutzel, Ken (Interviewer)
Van Orsdol, Mollie (Transcriber)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Allegan County (Mich.)
Farming
Motorcycle gangs
Gay culture
Music festivals
Beaches
Antisemitism
Oral history
Audio recordings
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Relation
A related resource
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
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Sound
Text
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audio/mp3
application/pdf
Language
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eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/15bed5bb3811867abfb16750b09548d9.mp3
d2da8c60105b541e853cff0537e1ea64
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/95d666a7c26a01dcc7fa10ec2104d233.pdf
b4ecab4a52949cab17bc07807b7b9545
PDF Text
Text
Nancy Crean - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering
June 6 2018
1
Nathan Neitering: Uh, this is Nathan Neitering, and I’m here today with Nancy Crean at the old
schoolhouse in Douglas, Michigan on June 6th 2018. This oral history is being collected as part of the
Stories of Summer Project, which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the
Humanities Common Heritage Program. Thank you for taking the time to speak with me today, I’m
interested to learn more about your family history and your experiences of summer in the Saugatuck
Douglas area. First, can you please tell me your full name and spell it?
Nancy Crean: It’s Nancy Crean, C R E A N.
NN: Okay, and your maiden name?
NC: Pandel. P A N D E L.
NN: Thank you very much, um, so first, tell me about where you grew up?
NC: I grew up in Chicago. On the south side, very close to um, South Shore Country Club, Museum of
Science and Industry, so I spent part of my summer at the beach in Chicago, and the other part of my
summer here in Saugatuck at the Oval Beach.
NN: Awesome, always on the beach.
NC: Always on the beach.
NN: [Laughs] Um, and did you have any siblings growing up?
NC: I have one brother, and his name is Bob Pandel and he did basically the same thing as me other than
he played sports.
NN: Okay, alright. Um, do you remember the first time you came to Saugatuck?
NC: Probably not because I was probably about 3 months old.
NN: Okay.
NC: [Laughs]
NN: Then….
NC: …First memory?
NN: Yeah, first memory.
NC: First memories would probably be about 6 years old.
NN: Okay.
�Nancy Crean - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering
June 6 2018
2
NC: So I came up with my family and we would come up every weekend starting in April all the way
through November and we would spend two full weeks here during the summer when my, my dad had
vacation, and we had a friend across the street, Mark Francis and the three of us would just play ball,
we’d ride bikes, we’d play in the golf course when we weren’t supposed to. We would steal the golf balls
off the fourth hole and watch the people look for them. Um, we, as we got older we met other people in
town and we would do things with them, mainly playing like baseball or whatever. And later on going
into town and hanging out in the middle of the street when they would close down the town, with the
college kids.
NN: Um, so you said you have a brother do you have any children?
NC: I have two children, two girls, Jennifer and Kelly and they both came here from the time they were
born also. We spent more time here because I was a teacher, so I was able to come you know for weeks
at a time during the summer, so they were able to enjoy a lot more things than we were. And I have
grandchildren who also do the same thing and they were very lucky because they could spend just as
much time, but they got to enjoy you know the arts and the swimming and the sailing and everything
else, you know because we did more things then.
NN: Right, wonderful. Okay, so take me back, were step back for a second.
NC: Okay.
NN: Tell me how and when did you family first come to the Saugatuck area?
NC: Um, my father had hay fever and so they used to go up to Petoskey for some reason it was better up
there and they would stop here in Saugatuck on the way because they had some relatives here and
eventually my grandfather and grandmother decided to buy a home here in 1930 and they settled here
and they did have friends and relatives that lived here [pause] for the summers. So I think that’s what
brought them here.
NN: Wonderful, and what were your grandparents names?
NC: It was Frieda and Rudolph Pandel.
NN: Okay, and your parents’ names?
NC: My parents’ names were Ernest and Ada Pandel.
NN: Very good, thank you. Um, and so it sounds like, it kind of became a family tradition to come to
Saugatuck.
NC: Very much so.
NN: Yes.
�Nancy Crean - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering
June 6 2018
3
NC: Very much so, everybody loves it here and we have absolutely no intentions of selling the house or
anything. The kids don’t want to divide it up, they want to keep coming here as we are now.
NN: Wonderful, and what is the address of the house?
NC: The address is 565 Campbell Road.
NN: Okay, and can you describe it a little bit, as it currently is?
NC: Yes, it is a small two bedroom, um it has a living room, a kitchen, one bathroom, and a screened in
porch and a basement.
NN: Okay, and what sort of condition is it in?
NC: Um, it’s in very good condition, we maintained it over the years, we still have the original windows
the original plumbing or, um, like sinks and bathtub, um, it’s the original wood floors, original wood, um,
woodwork and it’s still the same color it was, when they bought it.
NN: SO it truly feels like stepping back in time.
NC: It is, I have, I have a picture from my when my grandfather bought it was, its dark brown like stain
with white. Exact same. Hasn’t changed.
NN: That’s wonderful, that’s really cool. Um, tell me a little bit more about some of your other
experiences as a child coming to Saugatuck.
[00:05:06]
NC: Okay! Um we spent when we were here we spent almost every day at the beach.
NN: Okay.
NC: Or, or going through the woods back behind um, on Campbell road if you go north, it’s the woods
between Campbell and Perryman and we would explore through there and we’d swing on the vines and
whatever, um, we did not have a boat so we did not do any boating when I was a child, um, we swam all
the time we went to town, rode bikes, all of those things. My parents didn’t have a lot of money so they
didn’t enroll us in sailing or anything like that so it as basically, being kids. You know, and having the
freedom to come and go as you pleased, you know and there were no curfews you know, your parents
didn’t worry about you, you could, you know, be out, you know doing things that, well you should be
doing.
NN: That kids do right?
NC: Exactly.
�Nancy Crean - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering
June 6 2018
4
NN: Yes.
NC: Climbing trees, you know things we wouldn’t be doing in Chicago, because we did have access to
that.
NN: There wasn’t a space, right? Were you mostly spending this time with your family or did you have
friends here as well?
NC: We had, just the boy across the street and I had one girl that moved in.
NN: Okay.
NC: And then we hung around some the guys in town. So I didn’t meet a lot of girls until I was older. So
it was mostly boys.
NN: Mostly boys.
NC: Which worked out well.
NN: That’s okay.
[Both laugh]
NN: Um, so even when you were fairly young would your family ever sort of pack and head into
Saugatuck, the village center or did you stay out close to the lake?
NC: No, well during the day we were at the beach but in the evenings we would go into town and walk
around and you know, visit with people that were selling everything, and we knew Mr. Francis who
owned a grocery store.
NN: Okay.
NC: They’re the ones who lived across the street from us, so we would go into his store to do grocery
shopping.
NN: Okay, alright.
NC: That little teeny store.
NN: Do you recall any of the other restaurants or businesses that you would, frequent?
NC: You know what, um, the only restaurant that we used to go was, it was a hamburger place, I’m
trying to, I can’t think of the name. It was behind where the, its M and M’s now….
NN: Oh, right.
�Nancy Crean - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering
June 6 2018
5
NC: …but it used to be, I can’t remember what the name of it was.
NN: Uh, tasty treat or something? At one point?
NC: Yeah, that was, that was tasty freeze but right behind it where the breakfast place is now.
NN: Mhm.
NC: There was a restaurant that had hamburgers and I can’t remember the name of it.
NN: That was on Blue Star, right?
NC: It was on Blue Star but it was behind the tasty freeze. So I think, its, I, I don’t know what the name of
it is now. I don’t think its WayPoint.
NN: No, um, okay. When you, do you recall, um, uh, being at the house and you know, what kind of food
would you guys eat? .
NC: Um, my mother, my mother would make dinner before we went to the beach. She would prepare
everything so when we came home from the beach, and we took our baths and got organized she would
serve dinner within 20 minutes of the time we got home.
NN: Wow, okay.
NC: Yes, so she made homemade dinners every single day. I know she, she was quite the woman.
[Whispers] I don’t do that.
NN: But uh, apparently cooking was something she was passionate about?
NC: She, well, well, we had to eat.
NN: Well yes, and people get hungry.
NC: And she did not mind cooking you know so, it was very hot because it’s a small cottage but, it
worked.
NN: Okay, um, [pause] so as you grew older into your teenage years, do you have specific memories of
coming up….
NC: …I do….
NN: …that’s a little bit different than a young childhood’s experience.
NC: I do, I brought up friends when I was a teenager so then we had, were able to go to the beach by
ourselves and there was lots and lots of college kids and teenagers and they, you’d sit together so you
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didn’t have to sit with your parents which was really nice, and I went to the, the um, festival, the rock
festival that they had here.
NN: Okay.
NC: I attended that. That was really interesting.
NN: Do you remember which year that was?
NC: It was in like ’69? Maybe?
NN: Okay, there were a couple of them in the late 60’s.
NC: Yeah I believe it was in ’69.
NN: Okay.
NC: Alice Cooper was there.
NN: Okay.
NC: So, I believed it was around ’68 or ’69, right around the time Woodstock happened.
NN: Yep.
NC: So, it was like a mini one, but my parents allowed us to go and….
NN: …So they knew that’s where you were going?
NC: They knew we, they dropped us off!.
NN: Alright!.
NC: They dropped us off and then we hitched a ride. We actually hitchhiked back to the house and my
parents never even asked a question. That’s what I said they, you know, it was a different world back
then. You know, and when I was probably in my early teens, um, that’s when all the college kids would
be there and they’d gather around where Marro’s is and Coral Gables and they’d have to close down the
town because there was so many of them, and they’d just kind of hang out, and that’s what we did.
There was also a dance, it wasn’t the Pavilion it’s where um, Mermaid is now, that used to be a big
warehouse at one time, and they had dances, teen dances there. That you could go to, and we did that
in the evenings on like Saturday nights, which was a lot of fun, so….
[00:10:10]
NN: About what year would that have been?
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NC: That probably was somewhere between ’67 and ’69.
NN: Okay.
NC: …because that would’ve been, let’s see, let me think. Yes, it would’ve been the summer of ’67 or
’68, because I remember the friends I brought up with me.
NN: They were all friends from back in Chicago?
NC: They were, yes, and they loved it here. They still come up with me by the way.
NN: Good! That’s excellent! Uh, so what else do you remember about the concert? The rock concert?
NC: The concert!.
NN: Yes!.
NC: It was very interesting, there were a lot of drugs, lot of smoking, um, people were just enjoying
themselves, lots of dancing, music was great! You know, it was a beautiful day, didn’t rain so it was very
very nice….
NN: That makes a big difference when you were in a field, right?
NC: Yes, yes. It was, it was, I had never been to something like that, I went to an all-girl catholic school
back home, and so we were very conservative and it was like, very interesting to me, it opened my eyes
to a lot of different things because they were doing many things that I had never seen before. So, kind of
introduced me to what college would be like.
NN: Yes [Both laugh] Do you recall any of the other performers that?
NC: I don’t. Alice Cooper sticks out in my mind because he became famous, so.
NN: Right. He was there.
NC: Right. In fact, my cousin who lived in Fennville, he was one of his road managers. Alice Cooper. Yes.
Which is very cool.
NN: Oh! That’s fascinating.
NC: Yes! Very cool.
NN: I bet I would have some good questions for him too.
NC: He passed away [laughs] He just passed away two years ago, I know, you missed it!.
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NN: Um, yeah, we’ve heard, we’ve heard several people, you know have memories of that concert
depending on their, perhaps, level of sobriety.
NC: Right, I was going to say depending on their age. Because I was probably about 14, 15 years old so I
was a lot younger.
NN: You were younger then.
NC: Yes, yes.
NN: Okay interesting, and even in a conservative Catholic household….
NC: Yes!.
NN: …it was no questions asked over the concert?
NC: Nope, nope. I don’t think they had a clue, what they were dropping us off at. To be perfectly honest,
and when we came home we really didn’t tell them anything about it, and they passed away a few years
ago and they still didn’t know. [Laughs] Life is good.
NN: Yes, that’s great.
NC: So but, no, it was great, it was very very interesting being there, it was, it was something different
you know and it was nice that you could come to a small town like this and have something like that….
NN: Right….
NC: …and Saugatuck has always been a place where you can come have things that were different, then
many other places and I think that’s one of the draws here.
NN: Yep.
NC: I really do.
NN: I agree, I think a lot of other people would agree with you as well. Um, did you ever during the
summers as a teen or young adult did you ever, sounds like you always came here for vacation, did you
ever, ever have a summer job here?
NC: I didn’t, no, I had summer jobs back home.
NN: Okay, that’s fine. Um, do you recall then, as, as you were getting older were there other restaurants
or businesses or places you used to hang out?
NC: Uh, no. No, we basically stayed close to home.
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NN: Stayed close, and on the beach right?
NC: Right, on the beach or in town just enjoying, you know, the crowds basically.
NN: Did you ever have a reason to come to Douglas?
NC: Yes, there as a really good bakery here. [Laughs]
NN: Oh! Okay!.
NC: There was a really good bakery, it was next to where the catholic school used to be.
NN: Okay, down Center Street, yep!.
NC: Yes, yes they made really good butter crust bread. So, and we would, there would be baseball
games that you could watch too, in the park….
NN: [speaking over NC] At the Pet…what is now Beery Field.
NC: Exactly.
NN: Okay, okay.
NC: So but other than that I don’t think we did, we’d walk a lot my brother and I rode bikes everywhere,
so we, we rode all the way through, down the hills and around Saugatuck and Douglas so.
NN: Do you recall, especially if you were on a bike, um, ever encountering motorcycle groups?
NC: Oh gosh, yes! .
NN: Okay! .
NC: Oh yeah, that’s, well the town went through many different changes, it was the motorcycles came in
and then, um, when the gay population first starting came, coming in it was, oh, trying to think of the
name of the place right as you’re going into Saugatuck, it’s called the blue something-or-other.
NN: Blue Tempo.
NC: Yes! Yes. There, there was a lot of different changes going on, things, again, that you never saw
before. You know, it was very very interesting, and um, so the town went through different changes and
because when I was a child, it was very family oriented and then it, it went to the college kids and then it
went to I believe the motorcycle gangs were first, and then I believe the gay population started to come
in and you know, bring their culture because back then it was very different because they were um,
trying to, um, how could I say this, they were a little more flamboyant. You know where as now,
everybody’s the same, which is the way it should’ve been a long time ago, but it was you know, different
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culture. So you got that, and then it went back to the family, which is really interesting, it’s a full circle,
because now, you know if you go to the beach, there was, as you sure you, you might, I don’t know if
you remember this, where there was the gay part of the beach where you had to pay and there was
nudity and everything else down there, and now, I mean it’s all families, you know and everybody just
intermingles and gets along and its, it’s awesome, you know? And that’s the thing I think is so cool about
Saugatuck because it’s such a great area for everything, and everyone!.
[00:15:40]
NN: Yes.
NC: So. But yes, there’s been many different changes. Motorcycle gangs were interesting. You’d see like,
you know, a hundred of them parked in front of the Sand Bar, you know, because that was what their
favorite bar, you know and it was loud you know and it didn’t scare people away but I don’t think
families came as much.
NN: Well, and I guess if the motorcycle groups, gangs, had, had their space everybody else had space
around them.
NC: Exactly.
NN: Okay, alright.
NC: Exactly, exactly. You know it didn’t stop our family from coming into town, to walk around and
everything we, we continued doing everything the same our entire life. So….
NN: Do you ever recall when the motorcycle gangs would roll in or roll out of town?
NC: Oh, the sound?
NN: Yes.
NC: Oh my gosh, yes. It was, it was noisy it was kind of like the cigarette boats now [laughs] when you
hear them going, but it was much closer. Yes, because they had like the big hogs, I mean they had they
huge motorcycles you know, and they were, they were large men you know, they had, looked scary and
in sure they weren’t scary, they were just normal people that just wanted to do their thing, but, you
know it’s just different then what we had before.
NN: Right, and very noticeable.
NC: Exactly. Exactly, because I’m 65, no, I’m 66 [laughs] .
NN: You look great.
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NC: Well thank you, so, so I’ve experienced a lot of different changes. I think more, more changes during
my lifetime than any other time, in Saugatuck, you know, because, I think when my grandparents
bought it, I think it was very much a resort town, like, um, my mother-in-law when she was 17, took a
bus here and stayed at one of the hotels because she had heard that it was a fun place to go.
NN: How old do you think she was when she did that?
NC: She was 17.
NN: Okay, okay.
NC: She is now, she lives with us, she’s 92.
NN: Wow.
[Both laugh]
NN: Alright, so, this is all fascinating. Um, you know as you kind of already pointed out, the, the gay
culture….
NC: Yes….
NN: …kind of, kind of grew or became more um, less underground….
NC: ..Right!.
NN: …perhaps? So, when do you, do you recall when you first kind of became aware of that?
NC: Um, I was probably, I believe I was married so it had to be in the ‘70s maybe late ‘70s because I
think my children were already born and I, I, remember one incident, it was the Fourth of July and there
was um, probably 4 or 5 gay men out in front of the, where the washroom is in Saugatuck and one of
them was dressed in a wedding gown and it just and it was just really cute, and they were, they were
adorable you know but it was just so bizarre and my kids were like, ‘what’s going on?’ You know? You
know, and we were always very open, we explained to them everything, they were, they were very
accepting about everything because you know we had friends who were gay and everything so it was no
big deal. But, it was so flamboyant, I mean it was just like something that was like in your face, you know
but it, it changed. I mean it, it, which is wonderful you know because now I think our gay population is,
what about 40%? You know, which is wonderful and, like I said many of my friends are gay, I had gay
friends when I was young too though, so.
NN: So um, when you just, when you say that it was flamboyant, was it mostly in their style of dress?
Such as wedding gowns?
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NC: It was in their style of dress, it was in the way they acted, um, they were very physically showing
that they were gay, you know they had no qualms about it which, which they should’ve been able to
because heterosexual people are, but it wasn’t accepted back then.
NN: Right.
NC: That, that was the difference, so they were making um, a statement you know which I think was
probably a really good thing because people got, like anything else, anything that’s different, once you
get used to seeing it, it’s no longer different. It’s every day, you know? And like you said when they
came out of the closet, which should’ve happened a long time ago, I think people just became very
accepting of everything, so, which is really nice. But I think that was their way, I think it’s, the way with
anything that’s different, you have you to kind of put it in people’s faces and put it out there so they see
it, and they recognize it, and then from there you kind of just tame it down to normalcy.
NN: Yeah, you mentioned the Blue Tempo as a, as a destination.
[00:20:02]
NC: Yes.
NN: What else do you recall about the Blue Tempo? Did you ever go there?
NC: I did not.
NN: Did you know people who went there?
NC: I did know people who went there, but I did not, so and I remember also um, what’s the name of
the resort? The hotel, right on Blue Star?
NN: Uh, The Dunes?
NC: The Dunes, yes, I knew many people, my daughter [Laughs] my daughter is 40, she’s 41 now but
when she was younger she hung around with some people that were gay and she went there, and it was
a really interesting story when she came home that night. I was like ‘Really?’ but it was, you know it was,
like it’s just a different way of life.
NN: And it’s a safe space for them.
NC: It’s a very safe space, and I don’t, I don’t hear about The Dunes anymore so I don’t know whether or
not it’s, it’s still a destination, I’m not sure, because you know everything is acceptable now. You know,
you can go to any hotel it doesn’t matter, you know but I don’t know if they still, do they still have their
bar and dancing, and?
NN: Yeah, it still very much a destination for that community.
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NC: It is. I did have a friend who, who made a reservation there that was not gay [Laughs]
NN: Okay, that may have been a bit of a surprise.
NC: Their, their stories were hysterical.
NN: Yes, but everybody’s perspective is different….
NC: Exactly….
NN: …and it can be very eye opening….
NC: …It is!.
NN: In one of the other interviews, as part of this project was with a couple of owners from The Dunes
Resort….
NC: …Yes.
NN: and, and that’s part of why this whole project is so valuable, is to get all these different points of
view….
NC…Right….
NN: …Of the same time period….
NC: Right, right….
NN: to really stich that….
NC: [speaking over NN] Now are the same owners, do they still own that?
NN: I believe they sold it recently. Within the last….
NC: …well I know they were older….
NN: Yeah, yeah, but they’re still around.
NC: I know.
NN: Which is good.
NC: I didn’t know if they still owned it or not.
NN: Yes. Um, so [pause] you mentioned the different phases kind of….
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NC: …Yes.
NN: In the community. The college students came first. Do you recall anything else about when the town
would be shut down for college weekends?
NC: I mean they, they had to shut it down because you literally could not move. You could not move
through town, you couldn’t bring a car through because there was so many kids in the streets. You
know, it was, it was just really fun and I mean, I was young, I was probably 15 or 16 years old and they
were, you know 18 to 21, you know so they were a lot crazier then I was then but I loved it, it was so
much fun. Just being there, and my parents again, would drop me off you know at the corner, and then
we would walk home so we would have to walk down Blue Star and go all the way around to the other
side because the Ferry would stop running, at 9 or 10 o’clock so that didn’t help us.
NN: Right, so these were late nights?
NC: They were late nights, yes and you didn’t worry about walking around. You know and even with my
own children, they had a lot more freedom here than they did back home. Growing up in, they grew up
in the suburbs of Chicago, but you know we would allow them to stay out, they’d be out till 2 in the
morning with their friends you know, they’d be down at Douglas beach, climbing over the fence you
know to go down there, you just didn’t worry.
NN: Yeah.
NC: You know, and nothing ever happened you know, luckily. So, we were very very lucky. I don’t know
if we’d do that with the grandkids now [laughs] It’s a little different now, you know because you hear
different things that are going on, so, but that’s just the world.
NN: Yeah, yep. Do you recall, even though you were younger do you remember any of the destinations,
or that, that these college students would frequent? Or was, were they just in the street.
NC: It was, they were in the street. They were, it was right by Coral Gables. That whole area like Marro’s,
Coral Gables, um, whatever that store is Good Goods or whatever it is, I always call it Home Goods since
we use that name now. But that whole area, those streets were just filled with kids you know so, and
there weren’t many adults around, very few. There were police, they brought in the state police, they
had brown uniforms on I believe, or whatever color they were. So, they were walking around to take
care of the people that were really intoxicated or on drugs, because drugs were big thing back then.
NN: They were?
NC: Huge thing. Right. That was, that was, very, it was just in the ‘60’s you know, so you got the flower
children.
NN: Right.
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NC: And the college kids were very out spoken back then.
NN: Yeah, well that was….
NC: [Over NN] Kent State, Vietnam….
NN: …It was a, uh, sort of a tenacious time, right?
NC: It was! It really really was you know and like I said, being from my Catholic school I was not involved
in a lot of that so, when I came here it kind of opened my eyes to a lot of different things that I could
see.
NN: Okay. Hmm, which, what was the name of the school that you went to?
NC: I went to Aquinas….
NN: …Okay.
NC: Which was right in Chicago.
NN: Okay, alright. Um, [pause] did, thinking again just sort of real quick about the crazy college times,
did it seem like the Police were in control of the situation?
[00:25:02]
NC: Oh god no!.
NN: Definitely not?
NC: Oh god no, no [laughs] No there was no control, they were just crazy. I mean it was just liquor out
on the streets and people running around, yelling, and just having a great time. You know what, but I
think what the Police did was they contained it to the area.
NN: Oh, okay.
NC: So it didn’t move outwards into the residential area.
NN: Kind of keeping an informal perimeter sort of thing.
NC: Right, right. Do you know because they didn’t want it to go into the residential area where the
families were living?
NN: Right.
NC: So, but it was all in the downtown area.
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NN: Okay, alright, um, so, your family still comes….
NC: …we do….
NN: To Saugatuck, yes?
NC: Yes.
NN: How many people are in the family now? .
NC: Okay, um, in my family let’s see there my husband and I, you have my mother in law, two girls, two
guys, 1, 2, 3, there’s 11 of us and my brother has 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, he has 13. So, and we
share the cottage, I get a week, he gets a week.
NN: Okay. Alright, because I was going to say if there is only 2 bedrooms, that’s a lot of people.
NC: Right, right. We, we tag team and even with my family, when they come up we kind of alternate.
Like my husband will not stay if all the kids are coming up, he and my mother in law go home because
then it’s a little too chaotic for my mother in law at 92.
NN: Absolutely.
NC: You know but, but I will be there with like the grandkids and everything. My oldest grandson is 21 so
he works and is in college so he doesn’t come up as much. But he’s the one that spent most of his life up
here in the summers.
NN: Okay, alright.
NC: He spent his, almost the entire summer here with me, and he was the one that was involved with
like, he went to art colony took classes, he went did sailing, he did swimming here, he had lots of friends
around here, local friends so, his, his life during the summer really revolved around Saugatuck, so….
NN: That’s great.
NC: It is, it’s really nice and it was nice that I could be there to be with him the whole time.
NN: Sure, can you tell me just a little bit about your mother in law, at age 92 she’s been coming here for
quite a while. Okay.
NC: She has! She loves the beach too, she’s a beach person. She grew up in Hyde Park….
NN: Okay.
NC: In Chicago and so she also spent her summers on the beach there.
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NN: Okay.
NC: So, and we have a home now in Florida too, so we, we winter and we spend time on the beach
there. Hence, hence the wrinkles! [Laughs]
NN: Good looking wrinkles.
NC: As it, that’s what happens when you’re in the sun too much.
NN: What is her name?
NC: Her name is Imogene and her last name is Craen. .
NN: Okay, same spelling.
NC: Yes, exactly. Yes and she’s, she’s been with us for um, she’s been living with us for 4 years.
NN: Okay, alright.
NC: So, but she came up here with my mom and dad a lot, after her husband passed away. So she spent
a lot of time up here too with my parents.
NN: Wonderful!.
NC: Yeah, yeah. I mean life is good.
NN: That’s great, that’s great. Um, so I guess looking a little long range now into the future, just thinking
about it. You know, what are your hopes for the future of Saugatuck and this area? .
NC: You know what, I like the direction it’s gone in. It’s, it’s very very nice, I don’t like the Douglas road
now, but [Laughs] other, other than that, I really have no complaints I think that its, it’s become a very
um, I love the arts center, um, I love the plays, there’s so much culture here that you can utilize. It’s
almost like a mini Chicago. I feel like when I come here, you know, you can be exposed to almost
anything and the people that have moved in, their homes are absolutely gorgeous I mean you drive
anywhere throughout the town and everything is kept up beautifully. You know, so I am hoping that it
will continue on that way, we won’t have our drips like we did in the past you know where things have
fallen down a little bit, you know and I’m hoping that we’re going to continue on this path because it’s
really nice, and it’s a great place people come here and they want to move here. You know, I don’t know
how many of my friends have actually become residents here. So, I will never become a resident here
because I, I like Florida and you know, whatever, and I do like Chicago my family’s back there so I will
never live here full time but I spend a lot of time.
NN: But summer.
NC: Right, and and the weeks that I’m not here because my brothers here, I go to Renee’s house.
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NN: Okay. [Both Laugh] and, and just for the record, who is Renee? What’s the relation?
NC: Renee Zita, and that whole family, as you know is just everywhere so they’re wonderful people and
they are my, like my sisters.
NN: Okay, alright, and what is your actual relation to Renee?
NC: As a friend.
NN: As a friend, okay.
NC: Yes, I, I met her mother, Ann when were very young, and in our, she was in her 50’s and I was in my
40’s, I think that’s very young, I’m sure you don’t. But, but we were best friends for many many years
and, then I became friends with all the girls, and her brothers.
NN: Okay, okay, and that was Ann Rinaldi?
NC: Ann Rinaldi, yes.
NN: Alright, okay, um, so keep in mind that….
[00:30:01]
NC: Yes.
NN: That this interview will be saved for a very long time.
NC: Okay!.
NN: Maybe accessed long into the future, so if someone were to listen to this, 40 or 50 years from now
what would you like them to know? What else would you like them to know about the community, or
about your family or?
NC: That there’s no better place, and its home, and I was telling the girl that took my picture, I said you
know when you come in from Chicago when you’re not a full time resident and you pass that Michigan
sign on the expressway you kind of go ‘Ah’, its home, you know, and it is cause you come here and you
basically forget anything that is going on in your life. You just, it’s really a nice place to be, and I can see
why people want to live here because of that, because it is so nice and the community is wonderful, so,
great people.
NN: Good, um, this just prompted one other real quick question, uh, even thinking back to when you
were, when you were very young, um, and coming here, did you always drive? Did your family always
drive?
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NC: We did always drive, yes, no air conditioning. My father drove here, when he was a little boy when
they bought the cottage.
NN: Okay.
NC: They um, I don’t know what kind of cars they drove back then in the 1930’s but I remember him
saying they used to have bring a lot of tires because there was a lot of um, gravel roads that they would
have to travel and it would blow out the tires so they would have to change tires quite often, so but they
had a, they had a car, my father had a car form the time he was born, so.
NN: Okay, alright, because I know the Blue Star Highway was not completed until the late ‘30s.
NC: Right.
NN: And so, before that there were a lot of zigs and zags.
NC: Yes.
NN: Kind of to come up along the lakeshore.
NC: Now when I, when I came up we took um, we took like 1220 and then we went to Red, Red Arrow or
31 whatever it was, there was no expressway.
NN: Right.
NC: So, it did take us from Chicago, took about 3 and half hours.
NN: Okay, to make that trip.
NC: Right.
NN: Before the freeway.
NC: Right, and no air conditioning. [Both laugh]
NN: At least you were close to the lake!.
NC: And luck, luckily there only, you know only two of us in the back seat you know with the line down
the middle of the thing so you didn’t touch each other.
NN: Of course, of course. Dou remember what kind of car that was?
NC: It was um, the first one was a Mercury, like a big old blue Mercury in 1953.
NN: Okay.
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NC: And from there we went to a Comet in 1962, you know, a little cars and after that we got the
Chavelles.
NN: Okay.
NC: That’s when I could drive.
NN: Alright.
NC: I actually learned how to drive here too.
NN: Oh, really?
NC: I did! On Wiley, my father, Wiley and what’s the street where Burger King is? 64th?
NN: 64th.
NC: Okay, when I was really little my dad would put me on his lap on 64th when we’d go to Holland and
he’d let us steer.
NN: Okay.
NC: When I got to be about 10, he took us to Wiley between um, Blue Star and the lake and he would let
us drive, the car. [Both laugh] Up and down Wiley. You know, and then he taught us how to do a threepoint turn where the Miro is, you know that’s, so I learned how to drive here.
NN: That’s fascinating.
NC: I know! Yeah, so by the time I was 16 I was a, you know Hell on wheels. [Both laugh]
NN: No problem. That’s great!.
NC: So it’s been a great place for me.
NN: Okay, couple more questions. Were almost done.
NC: Yes! I’m not in any hurry!.
NN: Okay, um, again thinking that you know, who knows who might listen to this in the future.
NC: Right.
NN: Do you have any thoughts or advise for a younger person who might listen to this tape?
NC: Oh, come here as much as often.
�Nancy Crean - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering
June 6 2018
21
NN: Okay.
NC: I mean, all the time, seriously because it just really refreshes you and makes you feel fantastic.
NN: Very good.
NC: Buy something here. [Laughs] .
NN: Yes, yes.
NC: When the prices are down. [Laughs]
NN: From time to time, hopefully that happens.
NC: Yeah well not now. [Laughs]
NN: Not at the moment, no. Um, and I think the last question is just, is there any other stories you can
think of, any other….
NC: I don’t think so, not that, not that I know right now.
NN: Okay.
NC: If I think of anything I can send them to you.
NN: Please, you know where to find us.
NC: But at this, at this point I can’t. I will talk to my brother and see if he as anything else.
NN: Okay. The other thing, just so you know, as part of this whole project is that, um, we are also
scanning photographs and that sort of thing, so that, and you can take them back….
NC: Right.
NN: …were not keeping them. But this way we sort of have digital records and images that match the
stories that we’re hearing.
NC: Okay.
NN: So um, if you come across any….
NC: I will look.
NN: Scrapbooks, anything.
NC: I have lots and lots of photos in my closet.
�Nancy Crean - Interviewed by Nathan Neitering
June 6 2018
22
NN: Okay. Alright, well Nancy thank you so much for sharing your time and your memories with me, this
concludes our interview.
NC: Thank you.
[00:34:28]
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1910s-2010s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Various
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Douglas (Mich.)
Michigan, Lake
Allegan County (Mich.)
Beaches
Sand dunes
Outdoor recreation
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Saugatuck-Douglas History Center
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Text
Language
A language of the resource
English
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
DC-07_SD-CreanN-20180606
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Crean, Nancy
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-06-06
Title
A name given to the resource
Nancy Crean (Audio interview and transcript), 2018
Description
An account of the resource
Nancy Crean's family bought a home in Saugatuck, Michigan in 1930. Throughout her childhood she remembers coming from Chicago to Saugatuck every weekend from April to November. She and her family still spend weekends in the family home throughout the summer. In her interview, Nancy remembers a massive influx of college aged people on holiday weekends in the 1960s. Nancy also recounts attending the 1968 music festival that was held in Douglas.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Neitering, Nathan (Interviewer)
Van Orsdol, Mollie (Transcriber)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Allegan County (Mich.)
Outdoor recreation
Motorcycle gangs
Gay culture
College students
Oral history
Audio recordings
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Relation
A related resource
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio/mp3
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng