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Saladin, Philip
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Name of War: Iraq War
Interviewee’s Name: Philip Saladin
Length of Interview: (3:05:31)
Interviewed by: James Smither
Transcribed by: Chelsea Chandler
Interviewer: “Okay. Start us off with some background on yourself, and to begin with,
where and when were you born?”
Okay. My name’s Philip Saladin. I was born in Bayonne, New Jersey. January 19, 1982.
Interviewer: “Okay. Did you grow up there, or did you move around?”
Yes, I grew up, I guess, up to after high school in Bayonne, but I traveled back and forth. Had
family throughout the state.
Interviewer: “Okay, and what was your family doing for a living when you were a kid?”
When I was a kid, it was—I remember my mom being home and my dad working all the time,
and pretty much one of those families just parents working and…
Interviewer: “What kind of job did your dad have?”
Factory. Mom—And my mom worked—She eventually worked in a factory too, but a lot of the
time it was my mom at home. And then we had a huge family, though. I have five brothers, two
sisters.
Interviewer: “All right. Okay, and when did you finish high school?”
2001. (1:02)
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, and then what did you do when you got out of high school?”
I was playing football—I was an athlete—so I went to college. I gave that a shot. I lasted all but
a year, and then…
Interviewer: “Okay. What school did you go to?”
Western Connecticut State University.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now how did you learn about 9/11, or where were you when
that happened?”
�Saladin, Philip
Oh, that’s a—I—That’s a good one. I remember that day like right now. I was in college. Was
driving to class. I had a morning class. I’m driving, and the news is already going. Something’s
happening, and I’m like, “Okay.” So I stop at the chow hall, get breakfast, and as I sit down, I
look up. You know, the image that everybody remembers—bam, second plane crashing—and I
was just like, “Okay. Something—” You know. “Something’s going on.” You get that feeling.
You just know it then. And I go to class. Five minutes into class, teacher’s like, “Everybody
leave.” So, you know, I go back, and I’m in Connecticut. My whole family’s in New Jersey,
so—And, of course, cell phone reception is out. I can’t get in touch with nobody, and so me and
a friend of mine was like, “Okay. We’re going to drive home this weekend.” As you imagine, the
bridge—Everything is just—Military all over, everything is shut down, and it’s like, “Okay. Are
we going to get home this weekend?” (2:15) But eventually they were letting traffic through the
bridge, and, you know—And I finally got home, but I—Crazy. One of the most imprinted
images of my [?]. It’s—Besides the airplane crashing—Is when I was driving over the George
Washington Bridge. You know, and I grew up there. I seen that image. Or I lived—My brother
has a house across the street. I could see the Twin Towers from his porch. Coming across the
bridge you just see dust, and it’s just—It’s—It was—I wanted it to not be real. I’m like, “No.”
This is, you know, one of those situations, and then, you know, weeks go by, a couple days go
by, whatever. And then it starts sinking in. You’re like, “Oh, wow. This is real.” And yeah.
Interviewer: “All right. Now I’m going to ask a side question. Your last name is Saladin,
which is of Arabic origin.”
Yes. Correct. Yes.
Interviewer: “Is that part of your background, or is it a black Muslim thing, or…?”
I think it’s—I’ve been trying to look into it a little more. My dad said that my grandfather is from
Egypt originally, but my mom and dad and all my family that I know are all from Dominican
Republic. So I guess my grandfather moved to Dominican Republic, met my grandmother—But
information about my grandfather is limited to none. My grandmother passed away, so it’s word
of mouth. And, you know, it’s not easy stuff to find, so—And then that was another thing. When
I went to Iraq, that was a pretty cool thing. Everybody saw my last name, and that—I got to find
some good information out there about that, so it was pretty sweet and interesting. And then even
as a kid growing up—When I was doing, you know, history at that time in grade school, they
were still talking about—I seen my last name in a book, and I’m like, “Oh, that’s so cool.” You
know, and then that kind of got my little bug going on that one. (4:04)
Interviewer: “Okay, but you didn’t really identify as Middle Eastern, per se, or Arabic
ever?”
No, I’ve never—You know, never—As a—Just—Only thing in common is just the last name.
Interviewer: “Right. Okay. All right. Now you don’t join the Army until sometime
afterward. So you go to college for a year, and that does not work out particularly well. So
what do you do next?”
�Saladin, Philip
Well, I always had the bug for the military. My brother was in the military during the initial—
The Kuwait—The invasion. He was there, and he did a small stint. He did it more for college
purposes, and then—But I just always had it, and then I tried to join when I was in college. But I
was still unsure what I was going to do, so I never fully committed. And then I left college, and I
became a car salesman out of everything. And I’m a car salesman. It’s about a year or so in—
maybe a little bit more—and, you know, it’s like I was bored. I just—It wasn’t what I saw
myself doing, it’s not what I wanted to do, and it’s—I say it’s funny. It’s a coincidence or
whatever it was. A friend of mine thought it was a joke. He had bumped into a recruiter in the
street. He’s like, “Yeah, I’ve got a friend who wants to join the Army.” He sends the recruiter to
my job. I guess he didn’t think the recruiter would show up. Sure enough, I’m selling cars, and
this guy’s like, “Hey, are you Phil?” And I’m like, “Yeah.” And I thought he was going to buy a
car, so I’m talking to him. Next thing I know, I’m like, “Sure.” I’m taking the test, I’m at MEPS
doing some paperwork, and then I got a date. And I was like, “Hey. I’m joining the infantry.”
Yeah, it was awesome.
Interviewer: “All right. Now as you were doing the testing and the paperwork and stuff,
were they asking you what kind of specialization you wanted or training or…?”
There was a—I had a—I really—I didn’t know much about the Army, or I don’t want to say I
was super into it. I knew about different jobs, but I was—I wanted to fight. I was just like,
“Okay. That’s what I want to be.” I sat down, and I’m sitting in the recruiter’s office. And this
guy walks by, and he has this badge on his chest. And it’s a Combat Infantryman Badge, and I
was just like, “What is that?” Dude’s like, “Oh, that’s a Combat Infantryman Badge. You get it if
you’re in the infantry.” And I was like, “Well, that’s what I want to do, so…” (6:18) And they
had this giant book of jobs. I took the test, and they’re all like, “These are all your jobs.” I was
like, “Is that one on there?” They’re like, “Yeah.” I was like, “I want that.” It was like, “You
sure? They’re—” And he was kind of trying to talk me out of it. He was like, “There’s so many
other jobs there.” And it’s funny. He even recommended to me. He’s like, “I’ve got a friend in
the Air Force that—I could get you into the Air Force, and you’ll probably like the Air Force
more.” And I was just like, “Do they have infantry?” He was like, “No.” I was like, “I don’t want
to do it.” So that was my mindset, and I guess it must have been—You know, high school—I
played football and wrestling, and I was just always that—Just had that—I guess, that mentality,
and, you know. And I went, and I initially joined the National Guard. And I’m in—And literally
three days into basic training I was like, “I want to go active duty.” I was like, “This is—”
Interviewer: “Okay, so initially when you sign up, you sign up for the National Guard, and
then one of the things they do with the Guardsmen is they then send them off for Army
basic training. But then, as a Guardsman—Okay, after that, you would normally go
home.”
Correct.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now—So when do you report for basic training?”
�Saladin, Philip
So it was September. I reported to basic training. It’s a little process. They flew me in. You
know, they flew me out to Georgia. In Georgia, you’ve got a whole bunch of brand new guys.
Don’t know nothing. They throw you in a school bus, you’re on a bus for a couple hours, and
then soon, you know—You’re, you know, pulling into a base. And then, “Hey!” You’re—
Interviewer: “Okay, so they fly you—Did they fly you to Atlanta?”
Yeah, so, I guess, depending on where you’re from—But everybody—The central, final airport
is Atlanta, and then Atlanta—They’ve just got the buses lined up, and then—And it’s weird. It’s
an airport within its own because you come in, you land, you do all the stuff, but that’s where it
ends. (8:04) As soon as you come out the check-in, it’s their own little area. You get your bags
and then straight to the buses, and it’s like you’re separated from everybody. And then, you
know, at this time you’re new, so you don’t know. The military still hasn’t kicked in, but in your
head it has. You’re—Well, you know, and then—So you’re there, and you meet people. You’re
on a bus, and they just drive it. And it’s—Tinted out bus, so…
Interviewer: “Okay. Now what base are they taking you to?”
Fort Benning, Georgia. I was going to Fort Benning—good, old Sand Hill—and you get there.
We first get to the reception. I think it was 150 or—No, that was my unit in basic. I—I don’t—
Whatever they called the reception in Benning. So we’re there. You’re there for a week
processing, getting your clothes—you know, everything—and just sort of waiting to get the—I
guess, the next class to open. Then, all of a sudden, bam. Your drill sergeant’s calling.
Interviewer: “All right. Now what kinds of people were going in when you did?”
Oh, it was a mix. I—When I tell you—I thought growing up in New Jersey in that area and New
York that I knew a wide variety of people. Oh, no. I got there, and it was just like, “Man.” You
meet—If you think of a personality, you’ll meet that person there. It’s every walks of life. It’s
interesting too at that time. What? 2005. I’m meeting people. They’re like, “Oh, you’re the first
colored person I’ve ever seen.” You know, and it’s interesting. You know, you don’t think that in
your head. You’re—You know, you’re—By this time you’re like, “Oh, yeah, everybody’s—”
You know, you pass them, but it was like,“Yeah.” It was like, “I’ve never—” And it wasn’t in a
malicious way. It was like, “I’ve never—” Like, “I’ve never seen somebody.” “Hey. What’s
up?” And then—But you discover so much stuff. That’s where I first found out about the
Confederate flag. (10:07) Me growing up from New Jersey—I see a Confederate flag. I’m like,
“Oh, that has to be something racist.” You know, so I see this kid. He’s got this giant, full back
tattoo of a Confederate flag, and I’m looking. And I’m like, “Great. This is who I’ve got to bunk
next to.” And the guy turns around, and we’re just staring at each other. And he was like, “I’m
not racist.” And I was just like, “Are you reading my mind?” I’m like, “Does it say it on my
head?” And he’s like, “You’re looking at my tattoo.” He’s—And I was like, “Okay.” And then
we started talking, and we ended up becoming best friends. We talked, he explained it to me and
everything, and I was like, “That’s so awesome.” Broke down to me how—“No, it’s like, you
know—We have our small, little community. This is what we believe in. This is what it’s about.”
And I was like, “This stuff is awesome.” And then you start meeting more people like that, and
then, you know—And then you also meet some special people. You’re like, “Wow.” Like, “I
�Saladin, Philip
know why you’re here.” And—But even those people—When you talk to them, you’re like,
“Yeah…” But then when you’re out there doing stuff, you’re like, “All right. Yeah.” Like,
“We’re all here for the—” At the end of the day, we’re all here doing the same thing. And it’s
weird how. It takes a little—Couple weeks, but once you’re in—How that brings you, you
know—Somebody—You probably just got into a fistfight two days ago, and the next thing you
know you’re sleeping in a muddy hole with him. Like, “Come on, dude. Get closer. Keep me
warm.”
Interviewer: “All right. Now what—So you do your battery of tests, and you’re kind of
sitting around. Do you spend—Now in that first week when you’re processing, are they
keeping you busy with one thing or another?”
They—Yes and no. It’s almost busywork. The physical training was minimal. It wasn’t a
scheduled—It was minimal. I think they purposefully feed you. They’ve got this—The lunch is
this great spread, you know. You’ve got your ice cream, snacks, and everybody’s in there eating
pizza. And I think they do it on purpose. Like, “Okay. Here. Enjoy this because, you know,
you’re not going to have this for a long time.” (12:03) So they—And me? I was—Knew a little
bit from, you know, just family and people I knew, so I was like, “I’m just going to, you know,
keep it easy.” I was already a little heavier—on the heavy side—so I was like, “I’m going to try
to—” So we’re doing that, and it’s a lot of class. You know, it’s like, “Okay. Come to this
orientation. We’re going to—” It’s a lot of like, “We’re going to read about this weapon system.
We’re going to teach you this. We’re going to teach the super, most basic basic of the basic
things that is not going to get your head chewed off when you first show up.” That’s it, and then
a lot of it was like, “Okay. Clean.” A lot of cleaning, sitting around. If you were sitting around,
be reading. Be—Just doing something productive was the thing. If we didn’t have nothing
scheduled, do something productive because then they’ll find something to do, and that was, you
know, what you wanted to avoid.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now when you actually start the training cycle, now what
are you doing?”
Okay. Now it’s almost a crawl, walk, run phase. You start—Basics. You get to your room. “This
is your canteen. This is your canteen cup. This is your gear. It goes on your gear like this. This is
how you wear it.” So pretty much you first—The first week, I would say, is the standards.
You’re getting shown the standards. “This is how you have your closet. This is how you have
your bed made. This is how we expect everything to be.” So it’s a consistent drilling of, “This
is—” And then, after that first week, they kind of slack off a little bit, and now you’re a lot more
responsible for your stuff. Like, “Okay.” Like your shoes. “Oh. How come your shoes—” You
know. Then you start feeling the problems. Okay. Like, “You guys are not looking—” You
know. “You’re not keeping the standard.” We start doing the physical correctness and all that,
and then—But at the same time, you’re learning. You know, it’s like, “Okay. Here’s this rifle.
Take it apart and put it back together as fast as you can.” You know, some people do it in thirty
seconds. Some people do it in ten minutes. You know, it’s—But—And it’s like, “Okay. You
couldn’t do it in ten minutes. You’re going to start knocking out pushups.” Okay. Now you’re
like, “I don’t want to do pushups again. Let me get this together faster.” And—
�Saladin, Philip
Interviewer: “Okay, so you mentioned physical correction. They’re not hitting you, but—”
(14:03)
No, no, not like that. Physical fitness, I would say.
Interviewer: “You’re doing pushups and things.”
Yeah, and—But it, you know—In the moment, you’re like, “Ugh. Why am I doing this?” But
then now I look back. I’m like, “It worked. It definitely worked because, you know, you don’t
want to do pushups all day.”
Interviewer: “All right. Now, I guess, how hard did they ride you?”
At first, discipline-wise, they rode you. Because, you know, you came in there, you had this
street mentality, you know. It’s—So man, it was like, you know, “Head and eyes forward. Don’t
talk unless you’re spoken to.” Like, “I don’t want to hear a peep. You’re going to sit there for
three hours and clean your weapon.” Or, “You’re going to learn this.” Or, “You’re going to learn
how to read a map.” It was discipline. It was like when they say they break you down to build
you back up into a soldier, they—Yeah, they strip you from any ego you have. Everything is
gone. You think you’re good at something, or you know everything? No. It gets taken from you,
but then you just—Then you start learning everything, and it’s like, you know, you thought you
knew how to walk a certain way. You know, you come in there like, “Well, now I’m being
taught how to walk?” You don’t think that, but that’s how it is. Like, “No. Thirty inches. Hands
like this.” You know, and then—And at first you’re like, “I’m never going to do all this.” But
then you start seeing—Little by little, it just, you know—It starts clicking, and—But definitely—
The discipline is—The first three weeks it’s there. You have a constant drill sergeant with you at
all times. You’re never left alone. There’s a task always if—Even at nighttime. You know, two
people up. It’s always something. There’s always a task and purpose, and then every phase they
lighten up. But they always leave it hanging over you that they can bring you back to—They call
it “red phase”. That was like, “We can go back to red phase really fast.” And, you know…
Interviewer: “Okay. Now how long was the basic training itself?”
When I went, it was thirteen weeks and—It was either thirteen weeks or fifteen weeks. I want to
say thirteen weeks and five days or three days. Some weird thing like that. (16:09)
Interviewer: “Yeah. Okay. Now how large was the unit that you actually trained with?”
It was—in basics—a little different from the standard units, especially at Benning, because your
typical soldier goes basic one place and then specialty training somewhere else. In Benning, you
stay all there for the whole time, so we had, you know, usually a company. You have three
platoons. These companies were, you know, four, five, six. They were oversized, but it was
probably—It was Fox? We had—Oh. We had four platoons, so…
Interviewer: “About how big was a platoon?”
�Saladin, Philip
I want to say we had—What? We would say, in basic anywhere from forty—Between forty and
fifty starting, but then, as basic goes on, we—I think we graduated with maybe twenty something
people. We lost probably fifty percent of our class.
Interviewer: “Okay. Yeah, that is, in fact, where I was kind of heading with that line of
questioning. You get a lot of people who have come in and enlisted, but then an awful lot
drop out. Now what kinds of things knocked them out?”
It’s—A lot of stuff —Different kind of—One is physical. Some people get, you know, stress
fractures, break an ankle, something, and they’ll get rolled back. So they’ll just either get—
depending on how far along we were—So let’s say we were on week nine. Instead of them
getting thrown into week one of the next group, they’ll just hold them, recuperate them, and then
they’ll be able to start week eight or nine with the next group. But if it’s a discipline problem,
you’re going to week zero. You’re going to week zero no matter what. We had a guy—a week
before graduation—Guess where he went. Week zero. Because he went out on pass and got in
trouble, so—But then you have people that ran away, and that’s a whole other amazing thing in
itself. You’re like, “Why?” You know, we had a few AWOLs, and I’d say probably three or four
of them. But—And they would make examples of the AWOLs. It was—Because they would get
caught, you know, because you’ve got somebody in the middle of Savannah, Georgia who’s
from North Dakota or something. He’s like, “Oh, I’m going to run away and go somewhere.”
And you’re this private who—Everybody probably within two hundred miles can spot you. Like,
“That’s a private running away.” (18:24) And then you’ll see them two days later in the back of
an MP car, getting drove in, and it’s—But, you know, some of them got out. Some of them got
recycled.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now did some of them just quit?”
Yes, yes. You had people that just refused. Like, “No.” You know, and then it’s like, you know,
besides from physically grabbing them and dragging them out of the room, which, you know, the
drill sergeants can’t do—They were just like, “No. I’m not—I’m just—This is not for me. I’m
not doing it.” And then, you know, they’d—Somebody would come, they would take them, and
then we wouldn’t see them again. So I don’t know if they got recycled, they got sent away, or
what it was, but we had two people that—Then they call them, I guess, “failure to adapts,” and
they just ran them out. But…
Interviewer: “Right. Okay. Now how long do you think it took you to adapt? I mean, was
there a point when you kind of understood—while you were still in basic—what was going
on and just rolled with it, or…?”
Yeah. I would say—I thought it—For instance, it was almost a two-step process for me because
when I first got there I thought I knew it. I was like, “Okay. I’m just going to go, I’m going to
shut up, and I’m just going to do what I’m told. And I’ll survive.” And I was like,
“That’ll make me through it.” But, you know, they just had this thing of picking out the people
who were just trying to play the shadows and not get in trouble but not do too much, and that
was just what I was trying to do. And I had a drill sergeant that, you know—I guess he just
wanted to encourage me, and he would call me out now and then. He put me in a leadership
�Saladin, Philip
position, and, you know, I never—You know, I grew up in a city. (20:01) I had never held a
weapon, and I’m like, “Okay.” You know, I can’t embarrass myself right now, you know, so I
don’t know. So—And I failed. It was a—We were doing a—Almost a base operation, and I think
he knew it. I think he did it on purpose because he knew that I’d kind of been playing it back,
and I was doing just enough. So he put me in this position, and I completely dropped the ball. I
didn’t have my sectors of fire correct. It was—But he set me up. I—To this day, I say he set me
up, but it opened my eyes. And I was just like, “Okay.” And then he made me understand the
picture. Like, “Okay.” Like, “Yeah, you may know what you’re doing, and that’s it.” But he
showed me how everything was just—Came together, and then I was just like, “Okay.” Then that
kind of started that wheel rolling, and I was just like, you know, “Click.” And then it started
clicking and clicking, and I was—And I started looking at everything from more of a leadership
position and, you know, more than just being an individual person. When I saw it as a group—
And I’m like, “Okay. This is not just—” You know. “I’m not graduating.” Like, “The class
needs to graduate.” And things went a lot easier. And things went a lot easier, but I tell you what.
It was a process, and I’m kind of glad I went through it because I had to—It was a huge ego
check for me because I was like, you know, “I know this. I’m tough.” You know, whatever. It
was just like, “No, you’re not. You don’t know nothing.” Like, “Here you go.”
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, so you get through the end of this. Now do you stay at
Benning for infantry training, or where do you go?”
Yeah, so usually what they do is when you’re done with your—I think it’s the first three or four
weeks were considered the—Or six weeks were considered the basic training, and then we would
go—So instead of us getting shipped off somewhere else, our drill sergeant was like, “Hey.
We’re going to celebrate your graduation from basic training.” You know, and they were just
like, “Okay. Turn around. Hey. Guess what? You’re in AIT.” So we stayed in the same exact
place.
Interviewer: “Okay, so it’s Advanced Individual Training at that point.”
Yes, and then—Now that’s when it got fun. (22:05) The physical—And I don’t want to say it got
relaxed. It’s more, I think, we were just already conditioned, and we were—It felt easier to us, so
the PT was easy. We were to the point where we would go—On Sundays, it was considered our
downtime. We were doing PT on Sundays for ourselves, so we were—Physically, we were pretty
good, and then we started doing all the infantry tactics. Learning how to do ambushes, learning
how to react to an ambush, platoon attack, squad attack. You know, the infantry tactics—all our
battle drills—and that was the stuff where I was like, “Okay. This is why I joined.” You know,
we get to get—We don’t just have the basic M4. We get to put the little lasers on it and the optics
and throw the grenades and play with claymores, and it’s—And I’m like, “Okay.” You know,
and—But the—And as the ball was rolling, December came along, and in Benning, you get a
Christmas break. So it was—And you’re forced, so I was like, “Ugh.” So we got to home. It
wasn’t bad, but we got to go home for—It was two weeks, but when we came back, it was just
horrible because it was almost like you’re in the mood. You know, and you just got snapped, so
it’s not—You’re starting at week zero, but you’re not week zero. So that was an interesting one.
�Saladin, Philip
Interviewer: “Okay. Yeah, so you get to relax for a little bit, and then have to snap back to
attention essentially and go back.”
Yeah, yeah.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now, of course, you’re doing this now at the end of 2006 and going
into 2007, so we’ve been in Iraq now for several years. To what extent was the training you
received geared toward the Middle East?”
Oh, it was—I want to say—I don’t want to say primary, or that was the sole objective. But it was
probably, say, eighty-five percent of the training because we still did out in the woods. Besides
urban training, we did other, you know, land nav and stuff like that, but there was a heavy
emphasis on urban combat pretty much. (24:04) Because Iraq was kicking off, and that was a
huge—And I think,—At that time was the—No. Was it—No, that was right before the—That
was a little bit before the surge, but the numbers in basic? It was mad. The drill sergeants. I
remember the drill sergeants saying a lot. Like, “The numbers are a lot higher, and they’re like
the summer’s when it’s the highest.” And the winter numbers were matching the summer. They
just had recruits flowing through there, so it was a little faster pace. But we got through a lot, and
it’s—And I liked it because I like that urban stuff. And we did—We ended up knocking out a
week of drill and ceremony. Instead of doing that, we got to do some urban tactics, which is
awesome. I’m like, “Who would rather not go clear a building than march?” You know.
Interviewer: “Okay, so they teach you sort of physically how to operate in an urban setting.
Do they give you any kind of cultural training or orientation?”
No, not in basic training. I don’t know if now they do that, considering how long we’ve been
there, but it would definitely be a—You know, a smart thing to do, but when I was there, they—
It wasn’t, you know—They—But when you get to your individual unit, they did that a little
more, but at basic it was more of a—Even in tactic-wise, it was the overall. They never got into
it, and they just, you know, maybe—Step A and B is the furthest they got. They never got too
deep into anything.
Interviewer: “Okay, so these are really still kind of combat problems for you. How to
physically fight in these different kinds of environments and what to do with the weapons
and maneuver.”
Yes, yes, yes. Mentally training how to enter a room and, you know, raise your weapon without
thinking about it. That’s just second nature. That’s the stuff they drill into you. Memory. Muscle
memory. Learn to keep your weapon on safe until you do this. That’s the stuff. The basics pretty
much.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now were your instructors people who had been to Iraq or
Afghanistan?” (26:06)
Yes, yes. I had one instructor. Great guy. He—I would say—I had three instructors. Two of them
were huge impacts that I still—And then one of them—He was actually—I’m pretty sure you’ve
�Saladin, Philip
probably heard of it. The—It was in Afghanistan. Battle of Anaconda, I think it was. Pretty
much—He was pretty much part of the Spearhead Force with the 10th Mountain Division, and
he was, you know, just—The training and tactics and the stuff he was telling us was just—I
loved it, and they—Of course, he would give us the stories too from his time, and, you know,
just the knowledge. And, you know, he would tell us like, “When I went through basic, it was
nothing like this.” You know, and then he had that experience, and I don’t know when he went
through basic. But he was—You know, he was a Sergeant First Class at that time, so he had to
have over, you know, ten, twelve years in the military. So—And I’m like, “ Man, this guy
knows.” And he’s telling me like, “Stuff’s changing.” And hearing that from him and just seeing
that they’re applying it to us—He’s like, you know, “Because this is how we used to do it, but
this worked for us when we was in Afghanistan. This was being—And turned into doctrine.”
And then it was good because I started seeing stuff like that flowing in as it went on. And more
of the drill sergeants were from combat deployments. You started seeing that, which was good
because when I get to units, I had stuff that some people were just like, “Oh, okay.” And it’s—It
helps you a lot as a private.
Interviewer: “All right. Now when do you actually finish then the AIT?”
I graduated—It was December—I think it was February. Yes, because I was in basic for my
birthday. I remember that. So February.
Interviewer: “All right. Okay, so February of ‘07. All right. Now do you get assigned to a
unit from there?”
I went actually back home to the Guard because they couldn’t do none of my paperwork while I
was still in. I had to report to my unit in New Jersey, and then I get to my unit in New Jersey.
(28:03) I was there maybe three months total, but the first day I get there I’m like, “I want to go
active.” Like, “Who do I have to talk to? Where’s the paperwork? What do I got to do?” You
know, I did everything I did, and, you know, just short of three months I was—I had my orders,
and I got stationed to go to Germany. Actually, I got to pick, so I picked Germany.
Interviewer: “All right. Why did you pick Germany?”
I thought—And I had some great places, but I was like, “I—It’s probably my only chance to go
to Germany.” My only other overseas choice was Korea. So I was like, “Either Korea or
Germany.” But I was like, “I kind of want to go to Germany first.” So that’s what made my
choice.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now what unit do you join?”
I join the 1st Armored Division, 2/6 Infantry.
Interviewer: “Okay. The 2nd Battalion, 6th Infantry Regiment?”
Yes. 2nd Battalion, 6th Infantry Regiment, 1st Armored Division out of Baumholder, Germany.
�Saladin, Philip
Interviewer: “All right, and how do they get you there?”
Flew. I felt like I was going through basic all over again. They actually flew me to South
Carolina, and I had to sit at the basic training reception. But I wasn’t a basic training soldier, so it
was weird because I was still technically this brand new private. And I’m walking around a basic
training place, and all the drill sergeants are looking at me. But I have a unit patch on, and
they’re like, “What are you doing?” You know, they think I’m faking or something. Ready to
start drilling down, and then I pull my orders out. I’m like, “No. I’m just here waiting for my
flight.” And it’s crazy when they see that you’re not a trainee, and you’re actually a soldier. The
attitude change. The drill sergeant was—And he actually just came from Baumholder. This one
drill sergeant. He was like, “Oh. You’re going to Baumholder? I know this place and that and
that.” So I was like, “Sweet.” You know, tension, relax, and then from Fort Jackson they flew me
to Germany. So I got to fly to Germany. I flew into—I can’t remember. It wasn’t Frankfurt. I
can’t remember the base. It was one of the larger ones
Interviewer: “But was it—It was a military base. It wasn’t a civilian airport.”
Yes, the military—No. Well, we flew into a civilian airport. Into Frankfurt International.
Interviewer: “Okay. That’s quite possible. Yeah.”
Yeah, and then, of course, they’ve got the little military section. We got on our buses, and we
went to this reception. (30:19) I don’t even remember where the reception office was, you know.
I just—First time flying that far out. You know, I was in another world. But we get there, and
then we get our orders to our individual stations because I knew I was going to Germany. And I
knew I was going to Baumholder, but that’s about the furthest you knew. Get your orders. It’s
like, “Okay.” Then you’re like, “Oh. I’m going to Baumholder, Germany.” Then you get split up
like that, you get thrown on the bus, and the buses drive. Stops at each base and calls out the lists
of names. “Okay. You get off here. You get off here.” I get to my—In Germany, I get to my
base. Get off. Of course, it’s a four-day weekend. They’re like, “Hey. Reception is not open, this
is your unit, somebody will meet you over the weekend, and if not, Monday morning show up
for PT.” And I’m just like, “Oh, yeah!”
Interviewer: “Did they give you a place to sleep?”
Yeah. They set me up. They brought me to my barracks and all that, and when I got there, one
of—They had an NCO assigned for me, you know, and he was like, “Hey.” You know. “You
came on a four-day. There’s pretty much nothing we can do.” It’s just like, “This is the base.” He
showed me around. We took a tour. Completely, you know, different world. I’m—I was what?
Twenty-three probably. I think I was. You know, and I’m just like, “Man.” It’s—I’m just—I’m
in Germany, and I just got this twenty-minute tour of this random base and—“See you Tuesday.”
And it’s Friday, and I’m—“Okay.”
Interviewer: “So how did you spend your time that weekend?”
�Saladin, Philip
I bumped into another new guy. We happened to get—They put two new guys in the same room.
Me and him were sharing a room, and we were just like, “Let’s go walk around.” (32:00) And
just walking around, we started meeting people, and it was like, “Hey. Yeah, you know, you
guys—You’ve got to go—You’ve got to stay in town. You’re like—” We were restricted to
posts and whatever, so we got to just hang out the first day. Then the second day we went out to
town. It’s really small. Baumholder. It’s small. That thing. That town. They call it the Rock. It’s
on top of a mountain or something but super small. So got to hang out. You know, enjoy the
weekend, and, of course, you know, Monday—Tuesday morning PT. Get up. You know, me?
I’m—I don’t know what I was thinking. I wasn’t thinking, should I say. Long four-day weekend.
Brand new private in Germany. I just had my—Too much fair share of my drinks. And we’re
running, and, of course—Company commander. We’re in formation. I’m, you know—I see a
couple of them—and in great part I’m cutting back and forth—but I show up to formation
Tuesday morning walking. And I just hear, “Sal!” Because they call me “Sal” for “Saladin”.
Because the Army is by last name. “Sal!” And I’m just like, “That’s the most familiar voice in
the world.” And it’s my bunkmate from basic. He’s like, “What are you doing here?” He’s like,
“You’re supposed to be in National Guard.” And I was like, “I told you I was going active. You
didn’t believe me.” And we got put in the same company. We were literally in the same unit, and
I was—Ended up being four, five more guys from basic, so it was great. You know, it was
euphoria. I was like, “I’m not alone.” But, of course, it’s like, “Let’s go for a run.” And my
buddy’s like, “Don’t worry about it. It’s going to be an easy run.” And I’m like, “All right.” And,
of course, I’m hungover. It’s just horrible and miserable running. Company commander walks up
to me. “Oh.” Well, runs up to me, should I say. We were running already in formation. We’re
probably on mile one or two. Early in the run. Company commander comes up next to me. “Oh,
so you’re my new guy?” “Sir, yes, sir.” “All right.” He’s like, you know, “You’re a good
soldier.” And chitchat. “Good soldier. Yeah.” We’re running. Then, next thing I know, he looks
at me. He’s like, “Oh. You were drinking.” And I was like, “A little bit, sir.” He’s like, “How
you could tell—” He just looks at me. He goes, “You’re about to throw up.” (34:03) And not two
seconds later—And he’s like, “Don’t stop running.” So here I am—the new guy—company
commander is running next to me, I’m throwing up—trying not to puke on him—and all he’s
saying to me is, “Don’t stop running.” I’m—And he doesn’t care. He’s running through my
puke. He—And I’m all worried. Like, “Oh my god. It’s the company commander.” You know,
I’m scared. I’m over here throwing up. I’m like, “I’m the biggest—” Whatever. And he’s just
like, “Hey. Welcome to Germany. Keep running.” But I didn’t stop running, and I guess he
ended up liking me. And, you know, I ended up becoming—I got picked up to go work for the
Battalion. You know, I guess they just saw me as a good guy, you know, and I rubbed them the
right way, I guess. And…
Interviewer: “Okay. Now initially when you got there, were you just an ordinary grunt at
that point? You’re just an infantryman?”
Yes. Yeah, just basic, general infantryman. No specialty training. Nothing. Just…
Interviewer: “Okay, and now how did they have a unit like that spend your time? So
you’re with a mechanized infantry unit, right? Because you’re with the Armored Division.
All right, so day to day when you’re on the base and on duty, what are you doing?”
�Saladin, Philip
So it’s—At this time we were actually—They were at the end phase of their recuperation from
that last deployment. That unit just got through a pretty intense deployment. They were in—They
were part of the attachment that was in Ramadi in that phase, and they lost a lot. So they were
just in the ending of it—of rebuilding—so we were at the beginning of the training phase. So—
But that first initial month was a lot of just maintenance—you know, maintenance of the
vehicles—and no assignments were really made. People were getting tasked out. They’re
reorganizing the task formations and all that, and at this time now they’re like, “Okay. We’re
picking who’s going where.” (36:07) So they got all the new guys, and it’s like, “Okay.” You
know. “We’re going to interview everybody.” I got interviewed. They chose me to go work at
the Battalion S3, and then it’s like, “All right.” But even then you’re still—You’re at the
Battalion S3, but you’re still doing everything else, too. So it’s like you’re still doing the line unit
training, so when they go out, you go out. So you have to do all the computer stuff, but then you
also have to go out, qualify with your weapons, and do all that. So—And at first I didn’t like it
because I was like, “Man. I’m a brand new private, and I’m sitting behind a desk.” You know,
and to me, it’s like that’s the worst thing you could do to a brand new infantryman. I was like,
“What? A desk?” But it ended up—It was pretty good. You—I learned a lot, and I lasted
probably—My first half of my career with that unit was in the S3 because we had—We ended up
getting a completely new chain of command, so, you know, all the—We were all new, from the
privates to the commander. Everybody. Sergeant major. The colonel. Everybody was new, so we
kind of just meshed instantly because we knew this was the unit that was—We were going to
deploy together. We were protecting—We were their PSD. Their Personal Security Detachment.
We knew that that was our job. That’s what we worked for, so, yeah, it was like, “We’ve got to
go do computer stuff.” It was like, “Blah!” But we got to do—We got a lot of perks of working
directly for the Battalion commander, and I was—You know, of course.
Interviewer: “Okay, but you were still doing some of the training and the exercises?”
Yeah, you still had to do it.
Interviewer: “So you’re still going in the field when they do stuff, and…?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “So you are getting some part of that at the same time?”
Yeah, it was—The only part we didn’t do were the larger maneuvers like a platoon or a company
maneuvers. Those were the line units, but as far as our individual training? Doing our mount,
which is the urban training? We still had to do all that. (38:06) We had our Bradleys assigned to
us. We still had to qualify with that. We had to do everything except for what an infantry
company would do. Our primary job was running the Battalion S3 and the security detail, so
while they were working on, you know, platoon maneuvers—“Oh, okay. We’re going to go learn
how to shut down this village.” We were learning how to escort the sergeant major through the
raid or the village or whatever it needs to be. It’s, you know—And my part in the whole thing—I
was enjoying sitting behind a desk, but I did get to go—The benefit was we would get to go
shoot, and it’s like we’ll have to go. And, of course, you have a couple hundred soldiers, so
there’s lines. You have to wait. “Oh, sergeant major’s here. Sergeant major doesn’t wait.” So we
�Saladin, Philip
get to go in front. So we train, and everybody’s miserable waiting. We do what we’ve got to do.
Qualify. “Let’s get back in the Humvees. Let’s get the sergeant major and the commander back
to the office.”
Interviewer: “All right. Now you talk about being in the S3, and so, for a civilian, explain
what S3 refers to.”
So the S3 is a mix of the command and the control. It’s just—It’s pretty much the overall
operations of what’s going on.
Interviewer: “Operations. Yeah.”
Yeah, the operations. And I—My specific job—I was running—They call—It was a computer
system, and pretty much just watching all the troops, learning—At this time I was still learning
it, so learning, you know, how to map. Read maps. You know, place the troops out in sector.
Identify. You know, so pretty much the AO. Can you—How to, you know—A private working
with the commander, controlling the AO, identifying—Commander comes out the office.
“Where is Alpha company?” “Sir, right here.” And it was like that. He asked a question. You
have to come up with an answer. I mean, it—And brand new private. But it was good because
you learn a lot as far as the overall picture. (40:01)
Interviewer: “Okay. Now how long did you stay in Baumholder before you’re deployed?”
We did a—It was a—Oh, man. It was under a year. I know that. I don’t know exactly because we
were doing a lot of training, but it was probably—Maybe seven months. Between seven months
and a year. That is the window I was there.
Interviewer: “All right. How would you characterize the morale in the unit at that point?”
Oh, it was great. It was—And I don’t know if it’s just because it was my first unit experience,
but everybody was—It was—You know, everybody was—Just good mood, and everybody—
Morale was up. You know, the command group. And I think it’s because they gave us a lot of
free time because we were doing so much training when it was like, “Okay. We’re not in the
field,” it was like, “Go, go.” We had a lot. I traveled. In that short window I traveled a lot. I—
And it—But if I wasn’t training—if I wasn’t in the field getting dirty—I was out. There wasn’t
no like, “Hey. Just—Let’s relax at home.” It was…
Interviewer: “Okay, so how far afield would you go when you were traveling?”
I—Sometimes we would get day passes if we were lucky. I went out to Paris for a weekend. That
was great. I went out to Munich for a weekend. So the longest you would get is a weekend pass
unless it was scheduled leave where we could—But the furthest I—Drive-wise, I would say was
probably France. I didn’t get too far. We were—We wanted to go to London one day, but they
denied that pass. It was too far of a drive, they said.
�Saladin, Philip
Interviewer: “Yeah, it would take a little while. Okay. All right, and then the people in
Baumholder in that area of Germany. What kind of relationship do they have with the
American soldiers?”
Oh, amazing. These people were probably some of the nicest people I’ve met. It was—It, you
know—And you think too—Being brand new, you’re like, “Oh, these people. I’m not going to
be able to talk to nobody.” The whole town spoke English. You go—I’ll go to a bar, and they’re
like, “Hi!” And I’m like, “Whoa.” And—But it’s—They were really nice and super—They were
super tolerant and accepting. Because I tell you what, man. Some of the stuff them soldiers did in
that town. You’re—Houses on base are burned to the ground right now. (42:14) One year the
soldiers—They burned down one of the oldest buildings in the town—a historical building—and
apparently some soldiers did something. And it caught on fire, and I’m like, “How are we still
here?” You know, but very, very, very nice town. Very accepting. And the military’s really
intermingled with the town. I noticed a lot. When we would get there, the first three weeks you
would have to go to a German immersion class, so I got to learn how to speak German. And it’s
really—It’s—All the employees on the base are German. It’s a good relationship. It’s—I’ve, you
know—I had a better relationship there than I did with the people around Fort Hood, Texas, if
that says anything.
Interviewer: “All right. Okay. Now as you—Because, I guess, the Army works things in
cycles, so your unit is deployed. And then you’re kind of refitting, and then you gear up for
the next deployment. So there’s a phase there when you’re getting ready to go back to
Iraq?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “Okay, so now what kinds of things do you do?”
Now the training is picking up a lot more. You’re—You don’t have these month blocks. We did
a thirty-day, came back for a weekend, did a sixty-day training, came back, had a month off, then
deploy. So it was—And so now it’s like when you get your orders, that’s when it’s official. You
know, it’s game time. You’re packing, repacking, and then double-checking and repacking
again. It’s crazy how—And it—How they are with that. Meticulous. It’s like you pack
everything. It gets checked off the list. Then the next person comes. You have to take everything
out. It’s—But once you’re done with that part, and they put the seals on everything that’s
packed, you’d probably get a good two weeks before your time to deploy, depending on when
they take in the stuff. So it’s a good lull at this moment. You’re not training because all the
gear’s gone. (44:00) There’s nothing you can do, so at this time they give you downtime. But
don’t get crazy. You don’t have—You don’t get leave. It’s not like, “Yeah. You get to go home
for a month.” No, it’s—”We’re just going to relax.” So at this time everybody’s—The
somberness is kind of kicking in, you know. People’s like, “Okay. We’re going to war.” You
know, people start having that—Like, “Okay.” You know. Me and my friends—We kind of
celebrated a little different. We—It—We actually—This was—Kind of took us to Paris. We just
went. We were just like, “Well, we’re going to war.” And we heard all the horror stories from the
previous deployment. We’re just going to take out a $3,000 loan and go to Paris. And blew it in a
weekend. So it was three of us, so $9,000 between three privates in Paris before we go to Iraq.
�Saladin, Philip
You know, it was one of those—And it’s—I—It’s one of those nights I love. You know, it’s—
And—But that right there brought us—Gave us this—Us three—To this day, we still talk, but
man, we got so close that weekend. It was—You know, we bonded. It was almost—I don’t want
to say we knew we were going to die or something like that because I—You know, that cliché.
Like, “I’m going to go do this because I’m going to die.” No, but that’s how we thought. It was
like, “We’re probably going to die, so let’s just live this weekend like we’re never coming back
here.” And that was probably my second aha moment in the military where I honestly was not
fearing the deployment no more. It was just like, “Okay. Accept it.” It’s, you know—Faith is
here almost. It’s going to, you know—“If it happens on this trip, it’s going to happen.” Like,
“Why fight it?”
Interviewer: “Okay. Now what proportion of the unit that you were with at the time you
went had been on the previous deployment?”
In my specific company in the—Because I was in the headquarters company. We had—In my
platoon we had a pretty good—Seasoned guys. (46:06) And I’m pretty sure a lot of it had to
do—Because of the position we held. Was with the Battalion command group. But a lot of the
NCOs were, you know—Multiple deployments, you know.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, because, I guess, you mentioned that a lot of your command
group was new or at least—But they’re new to the unit.”
Yeah. New to the unit. Not as far as new as like new to the Army.
Interviewer: “Okay, but the men in the line companies. Did you have a fair number who
would have been the previous—”
Yes, we had a good—Lot of—A lot of the NCOs were from—And that’s the thing about
Baumholder. They retained a lot of their people, so a lot of the NCOs were from the previous
deployment. And even, you know—They had two deployments with that unit, but what—The
way they would do it is they would shuffle the companies. So you wouldn’t be in the same
company, but you would stay in the same unit. So that was—I think that was a good thing. A lot
of the—It was a lot of new privates too, but a lot of them saw that, you know, all our leadership
was seasoned. Seasoned people.
Interviewer: “Okay, and at this point now do they give you any kind of orientation for,
‘This is Iraq,’ or, ‘Welcome to the Middle East?’”
When we get—Well—
Interviewer: “Or did that happen only after you got over?”
Right before we went we would do a couple, little computer things. They make you do these
little classes where it’s—Try to teach you about it, but, you know, it’s check the box teaching. So
it’s not much. It’s like, “Here’s a pamphlet. Learn it.” Nobody. Maybe the command group,
but…
�Saladin, Philip
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, so you’re not touring mockup Iraqi villages or things like
that.”
Not yet. Not—We—To an extent, to your specific leader—your NCO—if you wanted to be like,
“Hey. Let’s put a sand table together—” If you had some leaders that were that, you know, ahead
of the game and wanted to do it, yeah. But a lot of that didn’t start until we got there.
Interviewer: “All right. Okay, so now you head over to Iraq kind of late 2007. Is that…?”
Yeah, it was around—I want to say—It was the winter. I know that because we left Germany in
the middle of a snowstorm, got to Kuwait, and it was hot. (48:09) And it was the most miserable
thing ever because I remember going on the bus on the plane. I’m like, “It’s so freezing.” And
when they open the bus, it just instantly got 120 degrees, and you’re just like, “Oh.” So like,
“We’re here.”
Interviewer: “Okay. You land in Kuwait. Now what happens?”
We land in Kuwait. We get to—We’re at the base. It’s a fast process. You get to the airport in
Kuwait there. You—It’s not like here. You get off the plane. You go into the terminal. No, in
Kuwait you get off the plane. You get on the bus. There’s no—You don’t even see the civilians.
It’s a complete police escort. It’s—And you get on the road, and it’s a hundred miles an hour
nonstop. It was—Each bus had two guards. Like, “Okay. Here.” You know, you got a full mag.
You just went from carrying a blank weapon to—“Okay. Here’s two magazines full of ammo.
You’re the guard for the bus.” I’m like, “Wait. What?” Like, “We’re not in Iraq yet.” So, okay,
we’re there. You got—And you’re flying down the highway. Police escort. Just buses zooming.
We get to the large base in Kuwait, and there’s when classes start. We’re there for about—Is it
two weeks? Fluctuates. A week. On return you might stay there for three weeks. Depends on,
you know, the movement. Whatever. But classes. It’s classes, classes. You’re doing classes on
animals. We literally had a class telling us not to fight spiders and scorpions. There’s so many
classes, from bombs to animals to culture. They really were—And, I guess, at this time it was the
whole—When...
Interviewer: “Was it the period of the surge or around then?”
Yeah, it was around the surge, but it was also when Petraeus—When they’re pushing the
whole—From the inside. (50:04) The COIN strategy that they were implementing.
Interviewer: “Well, that was part of the surge. The surge is sort of just adding—Was called
that because they added more men, but that’s what they were doing. They were sending
them into the local communities. Yeah.”
Yeah, and then that’s when they were teaching the more culture stuff. Like,“Okay.” Like,
“This—” You know. “This means this. This is what’s going on here.” Like, “Okay.” And then
they would try to teach more specific region. We were going—My first deployment we went to
southern Iraq, so it was like, “Hey. This is what the—Mostly population you’re going to
�Saladin, Philip
encounter. This is, you know, the lifestyle. This is do’s and don’ts pretty much of Iraq.” And
then do a couple more weapons training, weapons qualification, knock the dust off, make sure
everybody’s still good, and then—We were mechanized, so a good group of people had to drive
the Bradleys to the base from Kuwait into Iraq. But we were in southern Iraq, so it wasn’t, you
know, nothing crazy. But other people—Me? I was part of the advanced party, so I got to fly into
the base we were going to. That was pretty cool. It was in the night. It was—That was awesome.
Flew into a really small—It was a small—maybe three square mile—base. It was a COP, they
called it at the time. A Combat Outpost.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, and did you fly in a helicopter, or…?”
Yes, it was a Chinook they flew us in because it was—We stopped at three different bases, and,
you know, each group got dropped off at their little base.
Interviewer: “All right, and when you got into your base, now what do you see? What
happens?”
Oh, man. I’m not going to lie. I—The helicopter lands, ramp was open, so—But I got—I was
scared a little bit because it was nighttime. And they were dark conditions at night at this time
still on the base, so I don’t see nothing. You know, I’m coming off a helicopter. I’ve got a couple
guys there to greet me. “Hey.” You know. “Welcome to COP Carver. This is what’s going on.
Follow me.” (52:06) And you look around. You don’t see walls. So you’re like, “Am I out in the
open?” I, you know—I’ve never been on a—I’m a brand new private—never been here—so
I’m—You know, I’ve got my rifle. I’m like, “All right.” Wait—I’m waiting for the attack. I’m
like, “It’s going to happen.” And everybody’s like, “You’re all right. Relax. It’s cool.” And I’m
just like, “Okay.” So getting the tour of this small base, which you still—I don’t know what
they’re touring me because I don’t see—I can’t see nothing. And then they take us into the TOC.
“This is where you’re going to be working.” I’m like, “All right.”
Interviewer: “That’s the tactical operations center?”
Correct. I’m—They’re like, “This is where you’re going to be working.” So I’m getting familiar,
and, of course—Me—As a private, I go to where my job’s going to be. Who’s doing my job? A
captain. And I’m like, “This—” And the guy turns and looks at me. He’s like, “You’re doing
this?” And I’m like, “Yeah.” I’m like, “Great.” I’m like, “Great. This is the experience I wanted
on day one.” You know, and it’s—But, you know, luckily they were a great group of people.
The—It was the 3rd Infantry Division. We were replacing a great, great bunch of dudes. We
replaced them. I sat by this guy. I was there for a week before my unit came, so I sat every day. I
was next to this guy, learning everything, and it wasn’t as bad as it seemed. You know, I—But it
was—They had to give me that initial like—You know, like, “Oh, man.” But it was—That first
week was pretty smooth because it was more of shadowing him. Come in. Shadow for a couple
of hours. And it was twelve-hour shifts. It was twelve on, twelve off, twelve—So I would come
in maybe for three, four hours. The first day was an hour or two. Then I pretty much—The rest
of the day I’m, you know, sitting in my room, reading a book, or working out in the gym. And
that was my life for about a week.
�Saladin, Philip
Interviewer: “Okay. Now—But you got a chance to see outside in the daylight?” (54:00)
Yeah. In the daytime, so—
Interviewer: “And was this basically just flat, open country you were in, or…?”
No. So we were—The terrain was flat. A lot of dust. Moon dust. Just this soft, powdery, red sand
that’s everywhere. And then we had about two or three square miles of the big T-wall barriers on
the outside with two entrances—a north and a south—and, you know, once I saw that, I was like,
“Okay, okay. There’s some order here.” It’s not Wild West. You know, you’re not going to have
a charge over the hills. But it was—And—But then, besides the base, it was clear all around it. It
was a previous chemical facility or something that got blown up, so it was half of a solid
structure standing, which they used as a building. To this day, I don’t know how it didn’t fall on
nobody, but hey, it worked. And then my first dinner in Iraq was—Well, breakfast or meal,
should I say, because I don’t even know what time it was. Was eggs and biscuits, but I called it a
soup. Because we had no overhead cover, and it was raining. So, of course—Me? I’m like, “I’m
not going to go inside. I’m eating.” I—“Welcome to Iraq.” You know, a plate of soup breakfast.
Interviewer: “At least it was raining.”
Yeah, the one time, and it was that—It was crazy. The two times I went to Iraq—I experienced
rain in southern Iraq for the first time, and then when I was in northern Iraq the second time,
snow. When I was up there, it snowed, and that was the first time in so long. And I was like,
“Hey.”
Interviewer: “Lucky you. Okay. Now you’re—Was there anything going on in that area
when you got there?”
It was a pretty—Before—The unit before us—They had some losses. It was a rough, little spot.
They were actually—That unit was the first unit to—American unit to step in that area. It wasn’t,
you know—And then we came in. They had—They just—In the middle of building of this base.
They still had, you know, Humvees outside. (56:02) They lost a couple people building the base.
It was a pretty rough spot. It was a stronghold for—At this time it was—AQI, they were called—
Al-Qaeda in Iraq—and this was—It was—They had a pretty good grip there. So we came in. We
had a lot of focus on capturing high value targets. That was our huge task force’s mission. We—
A lot of captures. We went on a few raids. We went on—Early on. Even when I got there—you
know, before the unit was even there—we’re conducting raids that I got to sit on the office on
and help coordinate and all that. And my unit—We finally come in. Get established in that area.
Probably about, you know, a few months. It’s just—It’s quiet. We’ve got, you know, one or two
arrests. You know, we’re trying not to come in and cause too much a commotion. We’re picking
up where the last unit left off. Ask, you know—Asking for aid, what you need for the town,
we’re establishing a—They got the little, I guess, town hall conference. Whatever you call them.
Getting that going. It’s going good. It’s about three months in, and that’s when we get our first—
Bam. Something happens.
�Saladin, Philip
Interviewer: “All right. Okay, so before we kind of get into this—So in those first few
months when things are quiet, are you going into any of the towns yourself or seeing any of
the Iraqis?”
Me myself at this time? I’m not. I’m still working in the TOC, but I’m having a—I know a lot of
what’s going on because of my position, and I’m interacting with a lot of the people. Because we
have a lot of people coming into the base. I’m—So I’m having a lot of interaction like that. I’m
seeing the town from our camera. We have the giant blimp watching everything, so I get to see
that. (58:02) So I’m seeing it from afar, but I’m seeing everything that’s going on. And it’s a
pretty—As far as conflict-wise, on each other. They—We had a—These—Constantly going after
each other in this area.
Interviewer: “So the Iraqis were going after each other?”
Yeah. Yeah, the locals. Just, I guess, power grab. Whatever. Whatever was at this time because
there was nothing…
Interviewer: “But your guys were kind of largely standing aside from that?”
Well, we were conducting raids. The—We were arresting—We had a few good raids under our
belts early on because this place was just rich with targets, so we had—But that was one of the
things. We went on all these raids and didn’t fire a single shot. It was good. We got—I got to go
on one actually with the command group. It was a nighttime raid—my first raid ever I went on—
and man, it was—The way it was done. The way it was conducted. We marched in at—Well,
that’s probably the walk thing. Nighttime. Cover of darkness. From a mile out, we cut all the
vehicles, we all walked in, and we essentially shut down a whole village. It was—So right when
we were about getting ready to enter the village on foot—Call up the trucks. The trucks drive in,
so by—When they hear the trucks, we’re already inside, so there’s no way to leave this village. It
was completely locked down. We—It had to be over fifty houses. Not a single round fired, and I
think we arrested three high value targets. It was—And then seeing it, it was amazing. It was—
Just how, you know—Just watching it. It was—It was organized chaos—is probably the best
way I could put it—because you’ve got doors being kicked in over here, you’ve got yelling over
here, you—You know, explosion on this road, but it’s still coordinated. And I’m sitting there
with the command group, and you hear it over the radio. Everything collapsing according to—
Like, “Hey.” You know—“This is our own phase line Alpha just crossed. This is complete.
We’re moving in here.” And before you know it, you know, systematically we just shut down
this whole town, arrested these three guys, and not a single round fired. (1:00:19) You know, and
that stuff just amazed me. You know. Me? I went in. I was like, “Okay.” You know. “All hell’s
about to break loose.” Well, you know, you think of the movies. Like, “Oh, you’re going to the
bad guy. Bombs are going to be blowing up everything.” But no. Just almost surreal, you know.
It was a real—That was a surreal moment for me.
Interviewer: “But they’re still kicking in doors? Or were there—”
Yeah, yeah.
�Saladin, Philip
Interviewer: “As opposed to just knocking and talking to people.”
No, no, there wasn’t no knocking. It was, “Yeah, you know we’re here.” It was, “Yeah, we’re
here. We’re coming to get you. We know you’re here.” And...
Interviewer: “ But nobody resisted?”
No, no, and it’s interesting because our own—We had two—Well, not two. Well, we had a
bunch of other, but as far as what we received—mass cal or something—none of them were on
operations. It was—It’s crazy. All the operations we did. Nothing. The first one we were doing a
town hall meeting. At the end of the town hall meeting, one of the members—a council
member—And I’m like, “We’re giving these people everything.” They ask for it. We give
them—We’re at this point where we just have a lot of money, I guess, and we just, you know—
We handed them tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Cash. Like, “Here.” Like, “Let’s fix
this place up.” This guy comes out of the town hall meeting. He’s walking to his car. He pulls
out an AK and just starts spraying. He ended up taking out two of our guys, badly wounded our
interpreter, wounded one of our medics, but he got taken out pretty good. Pretty effectively, to
say the least. (1:02:00) But I wasn’t there. That one was—I was working at the TOC, and I had
the night shift. Got off the night shift, was going to my room, and I met my guy—one of my
guys that we lost—Well, not my guy. It was a friend of mine that we lost there. We were talking.
And it’s crazy because we were talking the whole time—
Interviewer: “Now was this someone who was there later, or…?”
Yeah, well, this was—I kind of, I guess—I jumped ahead of myself. This was one of the guys
that was—He was out there, and this was before they left. I just finished my shift at the TOC.
Now we had a little conversation crossing path. We talked for a while. He’s like, you know,
“Hey. You coming out?” But it was one of those more—He knew I was coming off shift. Then it
was a little—Almost a jive. You know, he knew I wasn’t going nowhere. So it was like, “Hey.” I
was like, “No.” You know, we talked—whatever—and we left, you know. It’s another routine
moment. We see each other every morning crossing paths. I get off work. He’s getting ready to
go do whatever he’s doing. And, you know, I go to my room, and then a few hours later, you
hear a different pace in people’s footsteps. (1:04:00) You know, you hear people walk because
there was a lot of gravel where we had our rooms to kind of keep the dust down. So you could
hear people walking, and you could tell. But this moment there’s just a lot of scatter and running.
You’re like, “Okay. Something’s up.” But you don’t know. I go out, and they already—They
were already back at this moment, so I go out. And it’s like, “Whoa.” I was starting to see.
Haven’t heard nothing yet. I’m just seeing stuff. I see the truck. Bullet holes. See some of my
buddies over there upset. I’m like, “Okay.” But I just instantly go to the TOC because we all had
designated jobs to do in situations like that. So that was our first incident. As far as my
recollection of it, it’s more of the office part from the debriefs. Putting together the stuff like that.
I don’t have firsthand knowledge because I wasn’t there. But, you know, talking to all my friends
you get a pretty good picture, you know, of—Because I had to sit there and listen to everybody
during their investigations and all that, so—Because of my position I held in the TOC, so…
�Saladin, Philip
Interviewer: “Okay, and was that sort of the first real sort of shooting incident that
happened while you were there?”
Yes, that was the—“Okay. We’re here.” You know. We had a few minor IEDs, but none against
us. It was always civilian stuff. We had a couple civilian—You know, local populace on each
other incidents. Nothing like that. That was our first—“Okay.” You know. “It’s real.” So…
Interviewer: “Okay. Now also when you were talking about the event when the shooting
took place, you talked about—And you’re—Because the officers are going in there and
basically handing out money to the Iraqis. And now what, as far as you can tell, was the
money supposed to be for?”
It was—They had—This was around the time they were setting up—We called them Sons of
Iraq. They were the names where—And they were pretty much allies we were getting, and they
were manning more in-depth checkpoints in the towns. You know, we would have a little—But
they were 24/7. (1:06:14) We would get the local—Pretty much it was better local militia. To put
it. I don’t know what they would call each other. And then the head Sheikh would come, have—
“Hey. I have fifty guys, and they’re willing to man checkpoints such, such, and such.” And we
would give them money, and then he would pay them. And that’d be their job, so we were—
Pretty much we were paying them, so—And the money, you know—It went, and it was
interesting to see because, you know, you’re just like, “Okay. I see the process.” Like, “Okay.
We’re paying them the money.” And then there’s always that thought. Like, “Are these guys
really getting this money?” You know, it’s—Because you give it to this one guy. He’s the head
of the town or whatever you want to call them, and then you’re like, “Yeah. I’m sure this guy is
probably…”
Interviewer: “Yeah. Well, there’s probably a certain amount of graft built into the
payment. I mean, there’s the assumption he’s going to keep some of it. On the other hand,
he’d have to pay the guys something if they’re going to—If he’s going to deliver. But yeah,
so kind of part of this sort of larger strategy to get into the community and engage it and
get people on our side essentially.”
Yeah, it was almost like buying a militia to our team. You know. Because I’m pretty sure a lot of
these guys were the guys we were fighting, you know, few—You know, throughout the time, so
it’s just like, “Okay. Hey. Let’s just do the smart thing. These guys are really—You know,
they’re here, want to protect their town, so okay. Let’s pay them to protect their town.”
Interviewer: “Okay, and were there any other kind of significant instances that took place
while you were still in the TOC, or does the other stuff get more interesting after you move
on?”
Well, there was a—I’m trying to think. There was one other incident, but it wasn’t no—We had
no casualties or nothing, but I remember because it was the day I was leaving to go on my R&R.
It’s like I’m in the TOC trying to get, you know—Get your last minutes of work in because, you
know, it’s—That’s how it is. And I’m sitting there, and as I’m getting ready to leave, it’s like,
“Oh. This truck got hit with an IED.” And I’m just like, “Oh.” And I’m like, “I don’t want to go
�Saladin, Philip
now.” You know, I’m like, “What’s going on?” So I’m halfway out the door. They’re like, “The
helicopter’s here.” And I’m just like, “No.” (1:08:12) So—But it ended up being—It was okay.
Just—It was—The truck is what got hurt. They were able to get up—leave—and then I went on
my vacation a couple weeks.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now do you get—Where do you go on the R&R? Do you go back
home, or do you…?”
You could actually pick where you want to go. And they’ll pretty much you give a plane ticket
anywhere in the world for your R&R. Me? I decided to go back home. Just wanted to go to
family, so went back to New Jersey, spent—It was—I think it was two weeks they gave us.
Spent two weeks home, you know. It was awesome, you know. It was the—Probably the best
two weeks ever.
Interviewer: “All right, but was it okay going back again? I mean, were you ready to do
that?”
It—I was, and I wasn’t. The whole time home too I was like, “Okay.” You know, in my mind
I’m ready. I’m like, “Okay. It’s my job. Let’s go do this.” You know. Like, “Okay. Let’s get
back.” When I get to the airport, and I check my ticket, it all hit me at one time, and I was just
like, “Oh.” And then my family’s standing there, and I’m like, “No.” You know. “Just hold it
together. Just hold it together.” And then they start crying. You’re like, “Great.” And then I
couldn’t hold it. I start crying, and I’m just like, “Oh, come on. Stop.” I’m like, “I need to get out
of here.” You know. I’m in uniform. But it was kind of—It was really weird because then I go,
and then they’re like, “Oh. You can’t leave until tomorrow.” So I got an extra day. So all that
huss and fuss, and then the next day I was like, “You guys ain’t even allowed in the airport.” I’m
like, “Just stay in the car. I’m out of here.” And I walked right in and left. I was like, “No. I can’t
do that again.”
Interviewer: “All right. Now when you got back again, did you go back to the job in the
TOC, or were you switching to something else now?”
That’s when the process started. So I get to the TOC, and it was pretty cool. I—My—One of
the—The Operation Sergeant Major walked up to me. He’s like, “Okay.” He’s like, “It’s your
turn to rotate to the line companies.” (1:10:07) Because that’s just how they do. They don’t want
to keep a private too long in the office because, you know—So—But he was like, “I would like
to have you with the PSD.” Which is—It was an attachment of—That was still responsible to the
command group, but they just didn’t work in the TOC. They did all the patrols and maneuvers,
so whenever the command group would choose the head, the higher-ups would go out and travel
any engagements. Because they would go out and meet with the locals, too. So they were pretty
much the headquarters line company, you could say. So they were like, “Okay.” Because they
had sent two of those guys down to the line company, so it was like, you know, “We need—” So
I was like, “Sure.” You know, I was—Not too many times the sergeant major’s like, “Hey. I
would like if you do this.” So I was like, “Of course.” You know, me? I’m like, “I’m not going
to say no.” So I was—I ended up staying in the TOC for two more weeks, and I think that was
the hardest part because if I would have went to the line company, I was gone that night. But he
�Saladin, Philip
was like, “You go to the PSD.” He’s like, “You’re going to stay in the TOC for two more weeks.
That’s just so we can get stuff rotated around.” Whatever. And it was so hard. It was—It’s so
there. I taste it. I was like, “It’s there.” And then finally, in that period, we had our second
incident while I was in the TOC still, so—And this one I was on the radio. Full from first contact
to the end out. And this one, I would say—The other one I knew the people a little more that
passed, and it affected me hard. But this one? I think it was because I was so direct with it. It hit
me a little bit harder, and I was just like, “Whoa.” You know, so then you’re sitting there on the
radio. It’s quiet. Afternoon, you know. Just—And then, all of a sudden, you know—“Troops in
contact.” (1:12:03) And then that’s the—And it’s like this is probably one of the loudest, most
organized rooms ever. Then, all of a sudden, it’s those three words. It’s just pin drop. Everything
gets quiet. The only person talking is the man on the radio and the man on the other end of the
radio, so that’s me. You know, I’m sitting here, talking to this guy, you know, and everybody’s
just there like the commander, sergeant major—Everybody’s looking, and I’m just like, “What—
” We’re talking, and it’s going. And you start seeing the situation start developing. I’m like,
“Okay. This is getting serious.” Start spitting up elements to go, and then you get the report.
“Such and such is down.” And then they report it. You don’t get the name. It’s like you get your
battle number, and I know the battle number because that’s part of my job. And I’m like, “Oh. I
know this person.” And that’s when—Boom, boom. And then, all of a sudden, everybody’s
coming back, and at this time the night—The morning shift—No, the night shift is coming
because I got switched to morning shift now at this time. So the night shift was getting ready to
come into the TOC, so my replacement comes. They’re like, “Hey. Man the radio. They’re
already off the area. They’re coming back. There’s no units out.” So—And then me? I’m like,
“What’s going on?” They’re like, “You get to go now to the aid station and direct the traffic to
the helicopter that’s coming.” Because I had the radio, so now I’m communicating with the
TOC, the helicopter, and the medics. And I wasn’t ready for this. I walk into the room to tell
them the helicopter’s coming, and I open the door. And I just see—It’s—I’m like, “Wow.” It
was—I don’t even know how to—It was—I’m lost for words. It was just one of those moments
where you just—“Oh my god.” And it just—It…
Interviewer: “So you’re seeing people with battle wounds?”
Yes, and being worked on. (1:14:02) And it’s just—You just see blood. And the first incident I
saw blood, and I saw the aftermath of the bad guy. That didn’t bother me. You know, he had
body parts coming—It was perfectly fine. I come here, I go in the room, and it’s blood and
somebody being worked on. And I’m just like, “Oh.” And it just—Everything just got sucked out
of me. It was like, “Wow.” Reality. And I don’t want to say “reality” because that sunk in a
while back, but it was just like, “Whoa.” Okay, so I’m—Snap to. I’m like, “All right. Bird’s
coming in. You’ve got five mikes. These people need to be there as soon as it comes.” They’re
finishing up. I’m on the radio yelling the time, and that’s my sole job. Is just stand there and yell
the time as loud as I can. Nothing else I’m responsible for, so I’m just—By minute, by minute
just counting it down, and it’s—I felt like it was forever. I—And then, next thing I know, it’s—
You know. “Helicopter’s thirty seconds.” And I look, and they’re on the table working on him.
And as soon as I tell them, “Thirty seconds,” they’re gone. I’m not even—I don’t even realize.
I’m—Just like, “Oh. I’m behind now.” So now, you know, we go out. We’re sitting at the
landing right outside the landing zone. You know, buddies there, and all you can do is look at
them. And it’s just one of that—Surreal moment. You’re just like, “Wow.” You know. But on
�Saladin, Philip
the upside of that, good friend of mine was there, and his actions—I’m telling you, man—was
just—And hearing it from everybody else that was there, I’m like, “I would have loved to have
been there just to see his maneuverability.” They were, I guess—They got ambushed from a
house or something—I don’t know the exact layout—but he was positioned in a point where he
had direct view and access of the house. (1:16:09) So these guys are under fire from a house and
pretty much an ambush. He just goes. You know, this twenty-something-year-old kid goes, grabs
a guy, and they just—headstrong—charge into this house. And he’s carrying a SAW—249
SAW—and they just head charge into this house and just light it up. And it’s—And everybody
was like, “Dude.” And it’s funny because the way everybody described it—It was funny. They
were like, “It was just like a movie.” And—Because you hear everybody tell you like, “Oh. It
was nothing like the movies.” And here everybody was like, “This is just like the movies.” Like,
“He just got up and went in that door, and it was so systematic.” And I was just like, you know,
“That was amazing.” You know, and I—Just to—That I heard that happen on a radio and then
hearing everybody’s accounts, I was like, you know, that’s—That goes to show you how in the
middle of all that you can still go and, you know, function. And I just thought the whole matter
that he did it in—And he was a specialist, too. Young. You don’t expect that from a younger,
newer guy, you know, but man, this guy—He—I was like, “Yeah.”
Interviewer: “Okay. Now you mentioned hearing a SAW, and a lot people won’t know
what that is.”
Okay. Yes. That’s a—It’s squad automatic weapon. It’s pretty much our machine gun for the line
companies. You know, you have your big ones on the trucks and that, but that’s more the
dismounted. You know, you’ve got your two riflemen and your machine gunner. He’s—
Supposed to say suppressive fire. That’s the guy. You usually don’t go into a building with a
SAW. If you go in with a SAW, he pulls rear security, covers the door for you, keep anybody
coming in or whatever.
Interviewer: “But it’s a lot of firepower?”
Yes. That is—They—It’s known for the—What we call in the line company the most mass
casualty producing weapon in the squad. And you carry the SAW. You hated marching with it,
but you love shooting it. (1:18:02) It’s one of those things. You hate having to be responsible for
it and deal with it, but I’ll tell you. When it came time to need the firepower, you were like,
“Yes.” Like, “I’m glad to be behind this one.” But yeah. That was…
Interviewer: “Yeah. All right. Okay, and, I suppose, in the meantime you’ve now had these
experiences, so if you’re going to be out in the field, and stuff will happen, you’re maybe a
little bit more prepared for that than you were?”
Yes, yes, and that I took to my—To, I say, my advantage. Being around the higher-ups and those
situations. And almost being out on every patrol without being out there because I saw it. You
know, and I just saw. And I got to see it from—As opposed to brand new private, you’re told,
“Hey. Go pull security. Cover this sector.” So that’s what you know. Me? I’m looking at it from
the bigger perspective. The tactical. I’m like, “Oh. I know why they’re here. Because they’re
securing this section.” And, you know, sectors of—So I get—So now when I go to the unit—No,
�Saladin, Philip
to the PSD. I’m not your average private. The squad leaders come in. They give us the report.
“Hey. Listen. This is what we’re doing.” In my head, I’m like, “Oh. I can see this whole thing
planned out.” I’m like, “Yeah. Okay. So we’ve got this.” You know, and then—And they loved
it. And that kind of gave me an upper hand because I always—I’m always picking at the
commander’s brains and stuff when I was in the TOC, so I knew a lot of stuff. I knew a lot of
formations, and I knew a lot. And it just helped me, and I became a team leader pretty fast. It was
within a month. I was already a team leader, which is…
Interviewer: “Okay, so when you’re actually out there in the field now—Now what does
PSD stand for?”
It’s security—Personal security detachment. Yeah, it’s—I almost forgot. I was like, “I can’t
remember.” It was personal security detachment, and we pretty much were assigned to the
command group. The sergeant major. The…
Interviewer: “Now a company commander?” (1:20:03)
No. Battalion. We were the battalion PSD, so we had the battalion commander, the battalion
sergeant major, the op sergeant major. And if we would have the supply officer or something like
that that had to go do a logistics run. Pretty much any of the officers in the battalion we were
responsible for.
Interviewer: “Okay, so you’re working with some of the same people you were already
working with, but now you’re in the field with them rather than—”
Yes, yes. Now I’m going out and doing the whole field engagements and—Because they would
go out and meet the tribe leaders and stuff like that, so now I was actually getting to go. And it
was really cool. I got to sit down on a lot of goat grabs, and that was—Oh, man.
Interviewer: “Goat grabs?”
Yeah, so that—My first experience of that thing too is for the books. So a goat grab—What
they’ll do is—The locals—They’ll get a whole goat, and they cook it. And they surround it with
veggies, fruits, and bread, and it’s just this giant platter. And they set it down, and everybody’s
just sitting in a circle. And it’s literally that. Everybody’s just grabbing at it and eating, and that’s
how, I guess, politics are done over there. You’ll spend three hours drinking chai and eating goat
and an hour talking about what you came to talk about, you know, so it was like there were times
we would have to go. And we’re pulling security for hours, and we’re just—And you look over,
and all the leaders are drinking chai and eating. And you’re just like, “Come on.” Like, “Really?”
And—But we would benefit because they would come around, give us food and stuff like that
because it was a little bit more of a—I don’t want to say relaxed, but because we were with the
higher-ups who we were engaging with, we weren’t as much expecting—No. And I don’t want
to say expecting because we always were expecting, especially after the first incident. It was like
we were on high alert, especially that platoon, because, you know, we took the biggest casualty
of the deployment. But it was almost as opposed to if you go out on a raid, you’re pulling
security on that where you’re expecting it. These—You’re, you know—These leaders are
�Saladin, Philip
welcoming you into their house, and you don’t think this guy’s going to do something where he
got, you know, all of his kids and everybody just walking around open freely. (1:22:06) That
stuff you could pick on. If you go somewhere, and all of a sudden you notice all the kids are
running in the buildings, you’re like, “Okay.” You know. Like, “Let’s tighten it up a little bit.”
But if you got everybody running around, and you can notice the environment, you’re like,
“Okay.” You know. “I’m in this guy’s house. We have supremely overwhelming firepower.
We’re all right right now.” So—But we always had, you know, June 23rd in the back of our head
because it was just—You know, it was just an event. You know, it was—But it was really cool.
Got to experience it. So my first goat grab—“Hey. Here’s a plate of food.” I’m like, “Yes!” It
was so good. All of a sudden, I don’t feel well. I get dysentery, and we’re still about a few hours
left on out in sector. And I’m just like, “I don’t know what I’m going to do with myself.” I’m
just—“Ugh.” I got so sick my—And it was—That was probably my first week. I don’t want to
say my first patrol but definitely my first week. It was—You know, now my impression is I’m
here with the commander—sergeant major—in his truck, heading back to base, and he’s like,
“What’s wrong?” And I’m on the floor like, “I don’t know.” You know, like, “I think I’m
poisoned.” But nobody else is sick, so obviously we didn’t get poisoned. But it was just like,
“Man.” And it was so bad, but couple days later, I was fine. And—
Interviewer: “Now did they treat—Did you get any treatment for it?”
Yeah, I—Yeah, they gave me—They had these pills. I don’t know—Remember the name of it,
but I was down for the rest of the day. It—Good thing. It was only a day. The next morning—Of
course, I didn’t have a choice. I had to get up and go out, but I was fine the next morning. But it
was—I was just like, “Whoa.” But I think it kind of helped me because every other time I ate
it—I didn’t learn my lesson. I went out and ate again, but I was fine every time. So I was just
like, “Maybe I just had to get used to it.” Because you get tired of the military food fast.
(1:24:06) You know, you get the same thing, and you’re just like, “Okay. You know what? I’m
going to try that meat on that plate.”
Interviewer: “All right. Now when you’re on a base like this, I mean, are they cooking any
food, or is it all MREs, or…?”
Oh, it’s—At this time—the early part—I say the—Probably eight months out of the whole time
we were there, we were pretty small. First, we had a little trailer. It was—They call it an MKT. I
don’t know—Mobile Kitchen Trailer. Yeah, so that’s what we had. So you had—It was enough
space for them to cook and you to walk through, get your food, and walk out and find a place to
eat. Because we were—Still had tents and our conexes, so, you know. And we never ate in our
rooms. Just no. You don’t want that. Critters coming in your room. So we’re eating outside.
Then eventually we got a bigger tent, so now we could actually—It was a—I forget what they
call them. A GP—A big, you know—So we had it in there. We got to set up in there. Had to
probably sit maybe a hundred people. Eat in there. It’s a lot better, you know, and then towards
the end of the deployment they got contractors. And they build this huge, nice facility, and I’m
like, “Of course. When we’re leaving.” And they get the private contractors coming in, and you
see all the—You know, the good food. You’re like, “Oh. They’ve even got midnight chow.” I’m
like, “I’m lucky if I, you know, ate twice a day. Now these—You go twenty-four hours and get a
�Saladin, Philip
meal.” But it was one of those things that was kind of glad. You’re like, “Oh. I see where it came
from.” But then it was like, “Whatever. I’m going back to America. I’m happy.”
Interviewer: “All right, all right. Now going to sort of take us now—So you basically got
just sort of this—You got into the first few months of your tour now, and now you’re going
into the rest. You’ll be there for fifteen. Now how does—What—Describe the kind—Okay.
Aside from going out and meeting with the local leaders and having goat grabs, what else
were you doing? What kind of missions would you run?” (1:26:09)
The operations tempos actually. It was a pretty high operation tempo. We had a lot of—In that
area there was a lot of targets—high value targets—that were wanted, and if we weren’t out
conducting raids to arrest people or kill or capture missions—I guess they would call them at that
time—we were securing. Doing—Pulling security for other units. Doing—And we had our
command group. They were out every day. If it wasn’t a key leader engagement, we were
attaching ourselves to a line company to go assist in whatever missions because it was—It
wasn’t a huge task force either, you know. We were—And our area was just two line companies,
headquarters company, and then another company got tasked out or attached to another unit. But
we had other small units attached to us, but for the most part it was just—Majority of the
missions was the two line companies, so we would go out and attach ourselves to them and go
off base. We—Majority was just a lot of arrests. We did—I couldn’t even tell you the amount of
people we—Even when I was working in the TOC, we had a lot. When I was out on the line with
the PSD, it felt like every other day we were going out, and if it wasn’t us, we were securing a
mission. A raid going on. And it was actually, you know, pretty impressive. All of—You—
Considering all of our incidents weren’t on raids. They were—Like that one. The second incident
we had. They were just doing a presence patrol. They were just walking around the town, you
know. Two minutes before that engagement, they were talking to a little kid on a bike. You
know, just neighborhood stuff. And out of all the raids we did—You know, high value targets. It
was, you know, some scary guys. (1:28:03) We were—We would go in expecting—Like,
“Something’s going to happen.” It was like, “Okay. We’re going to get contact tonight.” But
never. Not—It—They were all just good. And, you know, it’s just—They all went down. And I
wish I remembered how many we did. It was a lot. I think we even got recognized. Our unit got a
Presidential Unit Citation for that achievement.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now did you have any idea what sorts of people you were going
after?”
Yes, from—I knew that from my experience of being in the TOC and seeing, you know, the
paperwork. You’re like, “Okay. This target is wanted, suspected of IED making, kidnapping—”
Whatever crime. I saw all that, so—And then we would get told, too. Before the mission, you get
a mission brief. You get your package. It’s like, “This is what we’re going after.” Because even
though we weren’t the front line going in first to the house, everybody had to know who the
target was. You never know. They try to escape. So we could recognize. So you would study
the—You know, see them. Who they are. But it was—A lot of the times it was a lot of
information because it’d be like, “Okay. Look out for these vehicles.” And sometimes it was a
list of eight vehicles, and then you’d have these license plates. And then, on top of that, they
were written in Arabic, so you’re just like, “Okay.” Like, “If it’s the bad guy, I think we’ll know
�Saladin, Philip
by the time he gets to us.” So there were—But me? I just knew from working in the office, but
some of them were some real bad dudes. There was one guy we arrested, and he was known
for—I think he was responsible for—What was it? Not—Mass graves. Killing. Just killing a
bunch of people. (1:30:02) And, you know, we were like, “Okay. This guy’s going to go down
with a fight.” No. He’s—You know, and you see them come out, and you see these guys. And
they’re—I don’t know if they just—I don’t know. It was like you read these lists, and you’re
like, “This guy’s a real evil man.” And then when we come down on them, they were just like,
“Here. Just take me away.” And I don’t know if it was because they knew whatever it was at that
time. We had a lot of guys going in, coming out. I don’t know if just they knew that if they
waited out long enough, they might just get recycled through the system and released. Because at
that time there was the surge. Government of Iraq was still—Favorites were being played. You
know, such and such religions, people, whatever. However you want to look at it, we’re
getting—You know, like, “Oh. We don’t have evidence on this guy. You’ve got to let him go.”
And so it was a lot of that, too.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, and do you have—And were these, at least as far as you
could tell, basically local residents, or were there Al-Qaeda types from somewhere else?”
Oh, a lot—In this area, a lot of it was an influx of Al-Qaeda, and at this time—It’s when they
would call themselves Al-Qaeda in Iraq. AQI is what we knew them as, and then what was the
other name? There was another name they were transitioned to. I can’t remember. It was AQI
and then something. AQ—Something. Whatever. But we definitely had a few that were not from
that area because we—One thing that we had good was the unit before us—They were doing a
lot of civil, I guess you could call it. Investing on schools. They just got done building a brand
new school. So we kind of knew, but then you would tell. Like, “Okay.” And then you have a lot
of—It was—This part I was in southern Iraq, so this part was still very tribal. It wasn’t urban, so
you could tell. (1:32:01) But then you also have times where the Sheikh would come. “Hey. This
guy’s not from around here.” And then we would go, and then you talk to him. And you’ll find
out that this guy lived here thirty years ago, and he came and moved his family out. And he came
and took—So a lot of times that was hard because it was a lot of disputes like that, but there was
a few times where, you know, we would have—Like, “Okay.” You know. “We know this guy.
We’ve got the intel. This guy just came in. He’s hiding out in this area.” And those were the ones
that were a little more—Because this place before we came was a real, real hotspot for them. It
was a safe haven, you could say, because it wasn’t that far from the Iranian border, so they had
easy access. So it was a good hotspot for them. I think we were the second unit there from the
unit we replaced, so they had some good—And we had a few raids that actually Special Forces
Groups were conducting, and we had to pull security for them. And those were the ones where
we were like, “Hey. I notice that guy from a deck of cards.” So those were pretty cool ones. You
know, though, and—But we didn’t get to—I would love to go inside a building with them and—
But we just kind of were the outer security. We got to hear the chatter on the radio, and, you
know, it’s like, “Boom. You’re on target.” Next thing you know, they’re leaving in a helicopter,
and you’re like, “Oh. We got our guys. See you later. Thank you.” And stuff like that.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now how bad were the IED problems?”
�Saladin, Philip
That? For that deployment, they were a lot, but we had the engineers roadside. EOD. Their
vehicles—Oh, man. But they had the vehicles that were designed for it, but they went through so
many. We had—They would do route conditions—green, red, yellow—meaning, you know—
Green: safe to travel. And I tell you what. At least seventy percent of our area was red. It’s like
we could not travel because it was like you know you’re going to get hit if you go down this
road. And it was for the whole fifteen months. We had roads like that. And it wasn’t a
speculation. (1:34:05) It was like, “Okay. Route clearance is going to go down this road today.
This road is red. We’re going to expect to encounter, you know, half a dozen IEDs.” Sure
enough, two minutes into it—“Oh. We got our first IED.” And it was intense. That was a huge—
Especially because it was a marshy, swampy terrain, so it was real easy. And then we were
limited to our vehicles. We couldn’t use the big MRAPs all the time or the Bradleys. We were
confined to the Humvees, and we took the MRAPs out a lot because the IEDs were a lot. So we
needed the more protection.
Interviewer: “Okay, and explain what an MRAP is.”
So it’s a Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle. That’s what MRAP stands for, but it’s pretty
much a reinforced—if you want to think of it—oversized, mini school bus. The bottom is
designed to reflect explosions to the side. It’s a well-armored vehicle, but they are so big and
clumsy them things. It’s—Because it—They—High center of gravity. The slightest uneven
terrain that thing is bouncing, and you’re just like, “Oh, man. I’m about to roll over.” And that
happened often. That is—We got pretty good at self-recovering vehicles because them things—
as much money they spent on them—would just get stuck and for nothing. But they did good
against bombs, so you’ve got to give or take, you know. I wouldn’t—I’ll get stuck in mud and
not get blown up.
Interviewer: “All right. Did the overall rhythm or pattern of things change at all during
that year?”
Towards the end our—We noticed—Because we would get a lot of sporadic engagements with
the checkpoint personnel. And we noticed towards the end that died down a lot. (1:36:03) The
IEDs—That died down a lot, but I think it’s because we recovered a lot of stashes. We would—
Found so many caches. It was insane the amount of caches of IEDs we found. It was almost like
they had so many they just didn’t care. It was like you take a metal detector, walk outside, and—
“Beep!” “ Oh. Here you go.” It was insane. And that died down a little bit. The engagements
kind of started dying down, and I would say for the better part of the last four months it was just
nothing. It was pretty quiet, you know, with your exception of your local disagreements and that
stuff. But as far as against the coalition troops, it was—I don’t know if we just did that good of a
job, which I doubt because I kept in touch with people in that area after we left. And, you know,
there was—They still had the same stuff going on, but I—We did reduce it enough. It was—
Especially me going from the TOC and seeing it—It definitely—We definitely put a huge impact
in that area. I wouldn’t say an American solider is going to walk off the base and be perfectly
fine, but it was a lot safer than when we first got there, too. And I’m pretty sure, you know, it’s
just the gradual improvement, and I’m pretty sure—Who knows if I go there now, though? I
don’t know, but…
�Saladin, Philip
Interviewer: “Yeah, and that does seem to be part of a larger pattern that was taking place,
and so there was some progress being made at stabilizing things at least, which is sort of
what they sort of were supposed to do. And then it’s up to the Iraqis to clean up their act
after that. Okay. Did you get to know many of the Iraqis at all, or…?”
At this time—the first deployment—I did a little bit, but not too much for the simple fact of who
we were engaging with. We weren’t at this time—They didn’t have the whole—You had to be
with an Iraqi army and stuff like that. So at this time we were still independently operating, so
when I would engage with the locals, it would be more like the higher-ups. (1:38:10) So short
conversations with them. Stuff like that. So I never really—But I did get a feel for the
environment going out because you would notice enough the first few months going out. Just the
looks on their faces compared to the—Once they realize you’re—Okay. I’m actually here trying
to do something positive for them. You get the friendly waves. You get a smile. You’re like,
“Okay.” You know, you start noticing that. You’re like, “Hey. They like us.”
Interviewer: “Now did you have any Iraqis assigned to you as interpreters or whatever?”
We had interpreters, but at this time they were from the U.S. They were assigned. They came
over with us, and—Because we still didn’t have—The closest interaction with the locals were
base contractors. They would bring us, you know, whatever supplies or whatever it was we
needed, but that was—And even that interaction was minimal. If you wasn’t in charge of them,
you wasn’t talking to them.
Interviewer: “All right. What ability did you have to communicate with anybody back
home?”
That was actually pretty—They had a good setup. It wasn’t the best, but it surprised me. I was
like, “Oh. Maybe I’ll get a phone call every couple weeks.” But they had a pretty good, little tent
set up. It was maybe a dozen computers, a dozen phones, and you would go. But, you know,
it’s—The service—It wasn’t that—And then me? It’s funny. I was deployed for about six
months before I told my mom I was deployed, so you can imagine that one. And, you know, it
was one of those things. I would call her and be on the phone, and, of course, she’d be like,
“Where you at?” And I’m—You know, it’s like, “I’m out training. Bad reception.” And then—I
don’t know. I guess, finally, she caught on to it, and then I was like, “Well, I’m in Iraq.”
(1:40:00) And she was—So it was like that was a whole other—Man. And so all my friends
would make fun of me. Like, “So you were scared to tell your mom you was in Iraq, but you
wasn’t scared to go to Iraq?” And I was just like, “Oh. You haven’t seen my mom.” Like,
“That’s a different battle.” But the service was, you know, okay. It was—And then, plus, I tried
to keep communication minimum with back home. It was more of a personal thing. Just made it
easier for me the less I talk to them. It was just, you know, get through it. I wouldn’t be thinking
about home. It was just one of those things.
Interviewer: “Right. Okay. Now are there other particular incidents or impressions that
stand out for you from that first tour?”
�Saladin, Philip
On that tour? I don’t know. That was about the major parts of it, and, you know, besides the high
tempo of the tour, that was pretty much the peak point of it.
Interviewer: “All right, so then when do you rotate back to the States?”
So at the end of that, I went back to Germany. I was in Germany for about three months. You do
your whole—You know, just back to your unit. People start getting their orders to go to new
units. And right around the time they start restructuring that unit to—They were going to
Afghanistan. I had re-enlisted, and I got stationed in Texas. So I get sent to Texas, and I’m like,
“Okay.” You know. “I’m in a new place. Just came back from a deployment. I’m in Fort Hood,
Texas.”
Interviewer: “All right, so, roughly, when do you go to Fort Hood?”
It was around 2010. I want to—October, November-ish 2010.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right, and what unit are you assigned to now?”
In here I got assigned to Bravo Company 2/12 Cav.
Interviewer: “Okay, so 2nd Battalion, 12th Cavalry. And that’s 1st Cavalry Division?”
1st Cavalry Division, 2nd Battalion, 12th Cavalry.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now the 1st Cavalry Division has been a lot of different things in its
history. It’s sort of Armored Cavalry in World War II. It was Infantry in Korea. It was Air
Cavalry in Vietnam. What was it when you joined it?” (1:42:12)
We were a cavalry unit, but the way they had it broken down it was like all of that because it was
a cavalry battalion—Brigade, you could even say. We were—But the battalion was comprised
of—What’d we have? One—We had two infantry companies, two tank companies, and then
Scouts, so it was—And the form of Scout—It wasn’t a Scout unit. It was just Scout in name. So
it was 1st Cav Division in historical context because it was no longer just a cavalry. They don’t
even—They didn’t even use the term “Cav Scout” no more. It’s just a Scout. You know, so it
was a kind of—Just a mash-up of everything.
Interviewer: “All right, so 2/12. Was that a line company or a Scout unit, or what was it?”
2/12 was the battalion. Our line company—We were Bravo Company. And Alpha Company.
Were the two line companies. And then we had three other companies, which were the support
companies.
Interviewer: “All right. Now did the unit have helicopters or vehicles or…?”
�Saladin, Philip
We had—We were mechanized, so we had Bradleys and Humvees. But the Division had the
air—You know, the helicopters division. All that was comprised under the Division, but as far as
our battalion was—Was just Bradleys and Humvees.
Interviewer: “Okay, so you’re mechanized infantry again, which is sort of what you had
been originally.”
Correct. Yes. Right back to it, and here—The interesting—Was here in Fort Hood—In Germany,
they kind of embraced a lot more of the mechanized role. It was like you were mechanized.
You—But they had the light infantry stuff they did. Because they did a lot of, you know, foot
marches. Lot of groundwork. (1:44:00) Same thing at Fort Hood, but Fort Hood—They were a
lot—The catch, I should say, was a lot more focused on the mechanized part. We did a lot of
dismounted tactics, but it was almost like they wanted to—We individually got our stuff, so we
got—I was mechanized, so it was like I got thrown into this—It was a sixteen-week course. Just
the mechanized crew. We had civilian contractors come in. It was almost a mini college
semester. It was—It was testing, learning the vehicle, operations—Everything you’re doing. And
then, once you qualify to be on that—and you’ve got to pass the test to qualify—then okay. You
are officially a Bradley Unit, so now we got attached to the rest of the company. And now we’re
working with the dismounts, and the Bradley has six or eight seats in the back. And we would
put our light infantry guys—if you want to call them—and we would combine our operations.
Mechanized and dismounts. And so it was kind of a little mash-up of light infantry and
mechanized without the full aspects of light infantry. We didn’t have no Airborne or none of the
stuff like that. It was like you was in a tank, Bradley, or the ground.
Interviewer: “All right, and how long did you spend at Fort Hood?”
I was at Fort Hood from 2010 to 20—Was it ‘14? 2014 I got out. I got out at Fort Hood, so 20—
So—
Interviewer: “Okay, but you had a second tour to Iraq?”
Yes, and that was another thing. I leave Germany. They’re getting ready to deploy. I’m like,
“Hey.” You know. “I just got out of a deployment.” I get to Fort Hood. I’m there three months
maybe—probably not even three months—and you start hearing the rumors. You know, the
rumor wheel’s— “Hey. We might be deploying. We might be deploying.” And I’m just like,
“Here we go again.” And then it comes down. Like, “Yeah. We’re going to—” We get thrown
into the training cycle, so we don’t get orders yet. (1:46:04) But you get thrown into the training
cycle, and then, from my experience—I’m like, “It’s on.” You know. Like, “Okay.” And here the
training tempo—And I thought Germany’s training tempo was intense. But here it was more
because in Germany we would have to travel out to the training grounds. Because the base we
was at was small, so we could maybe qualify with our rifles at the base and small tactics. But for
the larger tactics we would have to travel, and it was couple hours drive. And then you had to
maneuver a whole unit. Expensive, so we would do long trainings, but not often. Fort Hood—It
was medium training very often, so instead of going out for thirty days, we were going out for a
week or two, coming back for a weekend—three or four days—go out for a week or two. And
�Saladin, Philip
that was just the tempo for the better part—A better part of the next nine months because I was
only at Fort Hood for about just under, say, nine months before I deployed again.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now what rank were you at this point?”
At this point I’m a specialist, and I’m a gunner on a Bradley. We’re doing all our training. And
I’m trying to remember when was it that I came off the Bradley. So we do all the training, but
I’m—And then we do our major training, which is to either California or Louisiana. We go there.
I’m still mechanized at this time. Everything is set up, and then we get our—Oh. At this time we
get our orders. I remember. When we—Right before we go to Louisiana—Okay. Bam. Your
orders are cut. It’s set. You have your date. We’re packing bags. We’re training. Now it’s fullfledged operation tempo. Now we know when we’re going. We get back. All of a sudden, the
mission changes. It’s, you know—We’re pulling out. We’re giving them back the base. We’re—
Pretty much the transition phase. (1:48:02) So it’s like my first deployment was under the troop
surge under Bush. My second one was a transition under Obama. It was pulling out. So it was
like I got to see both ends of the beast. So I’m like, “Okay.” I’m—In my head, I’m—I was
interested for this deployment because it was like I wanted to see how this one was going to go.
Because—And they’re already telling us—It was like, “It’s not going to be heavy operational.
It’s more of advise. Assist. We’re standing back a lot this deployment.” So I’m—“Okay.” So…
Interviewer: “Okay. Now in the middle of that did you actually go to Louisiana?”
Yes, we went to Louisiana. We spent—Was it thirty days? We went twice. I’m trying to
remember. We went thirty days, came back for about—Little bit less than a month. Went back
out.
Interviewer: “Okay, so you go to a swampy state to train to go to Iraq?”
Yeah.
Interviewer: “Well, of course, some—You had a little bit of swamp in Iraq first time, but—
Okay, but was it at Fort Polk, or somewhere else?”
Yes. Fort Polk, Fort Polk. And they have the JRTC—the Joint Readiness Training Center—
there. Complete mockup town of Iraq except for Fort Polk is a million percent humidity every
day, but—And then that was our experience there. Did that for the next two, three months. Back
in that cycle.
Interviewer: “Okay. Yeah. Now you had mentioned something earlier about Fort Hood not
being one of your favorite places?”
No. No, it’s—I’ll say—I’m trying to see how to say this thing. Not in a way that I didn’t—That I
didn’t like the military. (1:50:01) But I didn’t like Fort Hood, how Fort—How the place itself
was ran because I felt it was—When I got there, I felt it was more of a corporation than an Army
unit, and I don’t know if it was because of the size. And Fort Hood does have a division
headquarters on it, so okay, you need to uphold, I guess, a better image because it’s a lot higher a
�Saladin, Philip
rank. I don’t know the reasoning, but in Germany it felt more military. You were in a military
unit. You did military things. Everything had a militaristic purpose. You get to Fort Hood. Some
of the stuff you do you’re just like, “No.” It’s a lot of just weird admin stuff, you know. It’s just
random. You get there. It’s like, “Oh. You have to learn how to do a PowerPoint slide on—” I’m
just trying to—One of the most random things like a PowerPoint slide on going out on boating
and barbequing for the weekend. I’m like, “You’re trying to tell me how to be safe barbequing
and boating, but you just gave me a gun and bullets and sent me to another country. And I had
not a single safety brief or a PowerPoint slide of how to not to do something.” You know, and
then it’s like at Fort Hood you’re told, “Okay. You can’t go—If you go on pass, you have to do a
course on or computer thing on how to drive. You have to rest every two hours.” Weird stuff.
But then we’re in Iraq. They throw you in an MRAP. “Oh. You have got to go drive for twelve
hours nonstop.” I’m like, “Wait. So it’s okay for me to do it over there when I’m in a lot more
danger, but if I want to drive home for the weekend and if it’s over three hours, I can’t do it
because I don’t have more than a day.”
Interviewer: “So there was a lot of chicken bleep.”
Yes, yes, and for some reason Fort Hood just felt like it was extremely good at that. And it was
everything, and it kind of—It’s just like, “Man.” It’s like, “Let us be Army. Let us do Army.”
(1:52:09) It was like they were so concerned with—“Okay. You need to go to the motor pool
and pick weeds out of rocks.” Like, “We have Roundup. Just let me go spray it.” But no. It’s
like, “Go get a group of guys and go pull grass.” And stuff—I’m like, “I could have been
teaching how to land-nav or read a map or doing something else, but you want me to go clean a
rock.” And it wasn’t that dramatic, but it was stuff like that where you were just like, “Why am I
doing this?” And, again, it was just that whole, I guess, bureaucracy of the big base, and it—And
that—It just kind of—It just took a taste out of my mouth and just—It just—And yeah.
Interviewer: “So going to Iraq then is a refreshing change of pace?”
Yes, it was. And I tell people that, and they look at me like I’m crazy. But I’m like, “I actually
looked forward to that.” And then, “Okay, besides the fact that I need to stay alive—which I do
that here too—that’s my only worry. Besides my Army stuff, which is almost instinctive
because—” But it’s like, “If I want a drink of water or Gatorade, I don’t got to pay for it. I just
go walk in the fridge and grab it. If I’m hungry, I don’t—I’m not worrying about my meal. I just
go walk in the building and get it.” But it’s so much simpler. It’s almost—It’s a primitive
lifestyle, you want to say, to put it—The simplest words. It’s like, “Okay. All we got to do is
worry about is eat and live, and that’s it.” And the stresses of war are—Yeah, it’s a whole other
animal, but the stress of life is not there. And it’s weirdly a great feeling, and you—At the
moment I didn’t notice that until—When I got out and I started—I guess you want to say—for
the better part of it being an adult, having responsibilities, paying, you know, mortgages and all
that. I’m just like, “Man. I was in Iraq. I just had to not get blown up.”
Interviewer: “Right. All right. Now what’s the process for getting you out to Iraq this
time?” (1:54:05)
�Saladin, Philip
So now this one was a little bit different because Fort Hood has their own—Pretty much is its
own mini country. Own airport. Everything. So all the staging we did in Germany last time—
Everything got done from Fort Hood. Loading up all the supplies, leave ahead of time, all the
vehicles—It was probably two months ahead of time. All the gear’s gone, so now we’re just
sitting and waiting. Formations every other day. “Bring all your gear. We want to make sure you
have it.” So, you know, and that stuff. Finally, we’re going. It’s the day we’re leaving. We’re just
getting on school buses and two minutes down the road to the airfield. And we’re sitting in this
giant gym, get loaded up in the plane, and the next thing you’re taking off. I think we stopped in
Ireland or something for a few hours, and then from there we went right into Kuwait. And this
time it was—Even in Kuwait I noticed a change because I get to Kuwait, and a lot of those
briefings it wasn’t like, “Hey. This is an AK-47. This is how you handle it. This is how you take
apart.” You know. Or, “These are IEDs.” It was more like, “This is the population in this area.
This is how you engage them.” Which is the right thing to do because okay, you don’t want to go
in there and just—“Oh. I’m going to destroy everything.” You know, you want to know that, but
it was a lot more of that than, “Okay. Hey. You’re going to a combat zone.” And then we get
there. It’s a huge base. The lifestyle compared to my first deployment—It’s night and day. This
was a—What—It’s an Iraqi airbase. I’m in northern Iraq in Kirkuk at this time for this
deployment. It was, I think, Kirkuk Air Base actually. Was where we were on. Really nice. Lot
of contractors. This thing was—We had, you know—For what it was, I wasn’t complaining.
(1:56:10) I was like, “Hey.” You know. “I’ve got electricity.” I had Internet in my room. It was
good, so hey. And the life—The living conditions was better. The food was better. By this time
contractors were well-established. You know, my first deployment—From having the showers
that were going to electrocute you to the second deployment—To you have some guy coming in
replacing all the napkins in the bathroom. You’re like, “Whoa. Okay.” So—But this deployment
was the whole—“Let’s be nice to everybody.” And it’s interesting because this deployment I feel
like I thought was the deployment—I was not more in fear for my life, but I was like, “If this is
the deployment, this is it.” Because it was every other—Probably every day almost we were
taking rockets incoming, and, you know, the first couple days you hear the alarm, you run to
shelter. Before the end of the first week, we would get rocketed, and I’d just stay in my room.
I’m like, “I’m tired of running.” I’m like, “Whatever.” It’s like, “If it’s going to hit, it’s going to
hit me playing video games.” And I’d just stay in my room, and that’s the mentality a lot of us
took. And I don’t know if it was just the infantry guys—that we took that mentality—because
you still had a lot of people around us that as soon as that alarm goes off, they scatter, you know,
in the wind. Me? I’m like, “I’m going to wait for first impact, judge from there, and that’s it.”
It’s—Because I was like, “I’ll be damned if I run out of my room and get blown up running to
cover when I was in cover.” But, you know, it was just one of those things, and then by the third
week we’re making fun of it. We’re—And I don’t know if it was because their rockets were just
so whatever. And I’m pretty sure they probably just lined up five rockets, launch, and forget. But
we would come outside, and rockets were coming in. (1:58:01) Me and my buddy would run
around. “The Russians are coming! Everybody take cover!” And then everybody’s like, “How
are you joking?” And we’re like, “Well, you can’t be serious.” It’s like, “I’m not going to—I’m
already stressed out.” It’s like, “I’m not going to go crazy worrying about some random rockets.”
And, you know, fortunately I don’t think nobody on the base—I think somebody got shrapnel,
but no casualties besides that. And it was small. We had—But it was a constant barrage the
whole deployment. Well over hundreds of rockets were fired at us.
�Saladin, Philip
Interviewer: “Now was this hill country you were in?”
It was pretty flat. They really, really, really urbanized our setting. The base was huge. It was a—
Half of it was—At this time half was Air Force, half was military, and Iraqis even had a little
part of it, too. It was a big base. And, you know, they would launch the rockets, and half the time
it was hitting random spots on the base. But we had a few times. We had one time. We’re driving
out, and rocket landed right in front—It was a dud. Just—And you hear the fin, and we’re just
like, “Wow.” That—And you know. And stuff like that. You’re like, “Hey.” But—And you
know. And that was the lifestyle there at that place.
Interviewer: “Okay, so what were you actually doing then?”
This—We were doing a lot of—They called it—We just did a lot of presence patrol. That’s
probably the best way to—We would do a constant presence out there. We were just constant. If
we—We would do forty-eight hour guard shifts with an Iraqi unit at certain police headquarters
and checkpoints throughout the town, and if we weren’t even doing that, we were literally just
driving around the town for twelve—Twelve-hour shifts you would just drive, and it was—I
think it was just drawing out the bad guys because it was a lot of rockets attacking at this time,
and we would—While driving out, the overall idea was to try to have a unit out of sector, so
when they would start launching rockets, maybe have a chance of being close. (2:00:09) Because
we could ID where they were being launched from from all the stuff we had, so, you know,
sometimes we would get a—“Oh. We’re right down the road.” And you’ll go, and it’d just be a
rail set up. So it’s like we could tell it’s a timer, and I don’t—My unit personally—We never got
to catch one of them, but we definitely found a lot, a lot, a lot of rockets and rails. And that was
just—By that time that was their thing. Just set rockets and go. There wasn’t—IEDs weren’t a
big thing, but at this—It was—Can’t—The—I think they’re called RKGs. They were handheld
IEDs that they would throw, and that’s what my truck got blown up with. This was this
deployment. And that’s another thing. We weren’t doing a raid. Nothing. We were—We just got
done with a presence patrol. End of our shift. No, we’re actually QRF. That’s the funny part.
We’re QRF, and we’re out in town.
Interviewer: “What is QRF?”
So quick reaction force. So that’s for—Let’s say a unit’s going out, and they get in contact.
We’re pretty much their reserve. “Hey. These guys are in contact. We’re going to come and
multiply the force and whatever has to be done.” The way you usually handle QRF—You want
to keep them stationed at a location. Us? The way they did it we would drive. We’re out in
sector, so it’s like, “Okay. We’re QRF. What happens if QRF gets hit?” And guess what
happened that night. QRF got hit. So we’re driving. It’s probably, you know, last—Towards the
end of our shift. We could see the base lights. Maybe a mile from the base. And it’s crazy. The
way I remember this story was completely different from my driver, and I didn’t notice until me
and him talked about it a few years later. (2:02:08) So the way I—The whole time I thought of it
I’m in the truck. It’s my driver, my truck commander, and then me. I was a squad leader at the
time, but I had—I was driving in the platoon sergeant’s truck, so he was the highest ranking
NCO. So he was the truck commander. Him and the driver in the front seat, have the gunner in
the middle standing on top, and it’s me and the squad in the back. You know, and I’m like,
�Saladin, Philip
“Okay.” You know. “We’re pretty close to the base.” And we stopped. Or, at least, I thought we
stopped. And next thing I know I was just—Just this real loud explosion and this—I can still
taste it. Just this funky taste in the air. It was just—I don’t even know how to describe it. I don’t
know. You know, it’s from the smoke system. I don’t know. It was just this weird taste. And
come to, realize, you know—“Okay. We just got blown up.” First thing I do is, you know, the
body check. I’m intact. That’s a good sign. Still could not really hear stuff. Everything was just
muffled. At this point I’m putting two and two together. I knew it was an explosion. You know,
you know, and I look over. My medic—He’s standing there. Everybody for the most part was
good. We—Our truck behind us—We push out of the kill zone, which is what you’re trained—
You know, if you get hit, you don’t want to stay in that spot. You want to try to push up, back,
wherever. Couple hundred meters out of the way in case it’s an ambush. You don’t want to stay
on the X. We push out. Personnel gets arranged. We call up. “Hey. We just got hit.” “Oh. We
need to spin up QRF.” We’re like, “Oh. We are QRF.” (2:04:02)
Interviewer: “Okay, so what condition was the truck in when it was hit?”
The truck—It was interesting. The truck was almost—I give a lot of credit to the truck because
this thing was—At first, we was like, “It’s immobilized.” We’re like, “It’s done. The slug
apparently—Because it was—The way this IED was—It’s a copper plate, and the explosion—
What it does—It melts that copper plate, so it’s pretty much molten metal just shooting towards
wherever it’s going. And where we’re hit in the truck was right between the driver’s seat and the
engine, so it just hit the perfect sweet spot where it—But it went—It was the craziest thing. It’s
this big diesel engine, and it went clearly through the engine. You could see the ground. So we’re
just—You know, at this time we didn’t know it was that bad. We’re like, “Okay.” You know, we
took the truck. So we hook it up. Well, they hooked it up. At this time I’m still—I’m in the back
of the other truck. I’m kind of dazed still a little bit, so I’m just—And I’m, you know—The
recovery operation is happening, to say the best, and then, all of a sudden, it’s—I remember this
because this got me so angry. We hear on the radio. The guy’s like, “Okay. We got our troop—
We self-recovered.” They was like, “We got the truck hooked up.” We pretty much just put a
tow bar on it to the truck in front of us.” We’re like, “We’ll just pull it out.” Headquarters comes
on the radio. “No. The next QRF just spun up. They left. Let them come and recover you.”
(2:06:00) You know, and it’s—You get that pause. Like, “What?” Like, “Is that what you’re—”
You know, and now I can—You hear people on the radio like, “What the eff are you talking—”
Like, “We’re not going to sit here and wait for somebody to come.” So that situation developed
to what it was. This whole time I’m in the back of the truck, and all I hear is, you know, F-bombs
and every other word you could imagine in the book because we’re sitting here still. And, you
know—But we just got blown up five hundred feet to our rear, and we’re just still here.
Eventually, the next—We had our sister platoon. Happened to be coming back from their shift
on guard from one of the checkpoints. They were like, “We’re out in sector. We’re here.” They
pulled up, load up the truck, and literally did exactly what we were doing. But, for some reason,
they didn’t want us doing it. We get back to the base, which is maybe five minutes. We go to
the—Automatically, everybody has to go to the aid station for evaluation. I get out of the truck.
I’m like, “Oh.” You know. “I’m fine.” I’m—Then, all of a sudden, I’m just puking my brains
out, and it’s just—I’m just like, “Okay.” It’s—I was—And then—And everybody’s being
checked out, and I’m just puking. And next thing I know it’s like, “Oh. You’re staying here
overnight.” I’m like, “For what?” I was like, “I’m just throwing up. I’m cool.” And no. So kept
�Saladin, Philip
me overnight. Me and my platoon sergeant got kept overnight. He got rocked pretty good
because he was in the driver’s seat, so he got—Good concussion. The blast of that concussion.
Because it was right in the—Directly—If we were going two, three miles an hour faster, he’d
probably be dead right now because he would have gone right through that door. But he was a
little bit more out of it for most part of the night. You know, wake up the next morning. We get
released. You know, it wasn’t nothing too crazy.
Interviewer: “Now did you get diagnosed with a concussion?” (2:08:01)
Yes, I got diagnosed with a traumatic brain injury and pretty good one because I couldn’t go out
for, you know, I think—I forget. I think it was a week or something. And I don’t remember
hitting my head or none of that. I thought I recalled the whole thing good. You know, I’m telling
my story. I’m like, “Yeah. This is what happened.” I couldn’t be more wrong.
Interviewer: “Yeah, so what’s your friend’s version of it?”
So my buddy—He’s the driver, so I take his—You know, I was like, “Okay.” You know. “That
kind of makes a lot more sense to me.” Me? I was—My story—It was like we stopped at the
light. Whatever. He was like, “No. We never stopped.” He was like, “We were driving the whole
time.” And he was like, “We’re driving, I saw a guy at the corner, and I yelled to the gunner.”
He’s—I don’t want to say names because I just don’t want to put nobody out there like that. And
I haven’t talked to them to—You know, I let them put it out if they want to in the future.
Whatever. But he’s saying his name. “Hey! Two o’clock.” You know. “Somebody’s fishy there.”
Because he said he saw the guy look, turn back, and cross the corner. We’re coming up on the
corner, so he peeks. He said he seen him peek. The guy comes back, and that’s when he told him.
I don’t know if our gunner was sleeping, La-la land, what it was—Because then all I hear is,
“Oh, shit.” And, you know, my driver’s like, “I didn’t know what to do after that.” He’s—He’s
driving, he’s telling the gunner, the platoon sergeant’s like, “Oh, shit,” and he’s like, “That’s—
We got hit while we were driving.” He’s like, “We never stopped. The whole time we was
driving.” The part where we pushed through was right, the part that we couldn’t self-recover was
right, but we never—I guess we never got to the point where we were leaving with our vehicles.
(2:10:00) He said we were in the middle of setting it up, and then we got told, “Hey. Don’t selfrecover.” And apparently, our sister platoon was already there when we got told. You know, and
I’m just like, “Well, okay. Well, you know what—” I was like, “I knew this story completely
different. Me? I thought we was at—” I was like, “I thought we stopped.” And there’s this
bridge—this overpass—we always drove under, and I thought that’s where it happened. And it
wasn’t even there. It was quarter mile up the road. He was—I don’t know. I was like, “Didn’t we
stop at the light at the underpass? And that’s where we got—” He’s like, “No. We never stopped
at that light.” And I’m like, “I know.” That’s what was weird to me. He was like, “No.” He was
like, “We drove through, and it’s right when we got past the underpass at that store—” He’s like,
“This little restaurant—” He’s like, “That’s where it happened.” I was just like, “Oh.” And he’s
sitting out—And it was—I was just like, “That’s—” But it was crazy how I thought—If you
were to ask me—If that’s a report I gave—my debrief—I would have swore up and down that’s
what happened verbatim, and no. It’s—And I found that very interesting, you know. It was like
how? I don’t know if it was a coping mechanism that my body just went into, or maybe I just—
�Saladin, Philip
That track of period—I just lost it or whatever it was. But I just found it really interesting how—
That my perspective was completely different from his, and it was—I just found that interesting.
Interviewer: “Okay. Well, I mean, with a brain injury and a concussion and things like
that, stuff can happen, and the brain can actually fabricate memories in places. If there’s
something that’s missing, it will fill in the space for it. So who knows there? But yeah, so
very, very distinctive thing there. Okay. Was that really the only time that you kind of
came under fire or were that close to it?”
For that—For us, yes. For that—I’m trying to think. For—Yes, yes, yes, yes. I know that one
was—There was another story with another platoon that was pretty interesting. (2:12:02) It—I
say it’s interesting because the outcome—Nobody was hurt, but this guy—I think he was a brand
new private. He wasn’t in my unit—my platoon—but we had—We were going out on patrol, and
we come back. It’s a—It was a fairly large maneuver. We come back, and we’re going into the
base. And all you hear on the radio is, “Oh, chunk. I think I got shot.” You hear that. Okay, you
know, you’re—Everybody’s buckling down. We’re like, “Is there a sniper?” You know, because
we’re driving. You know, there wasn’t no gunshot, so nobody’s mind thought of anything. We’re
just like, “What? Wait. What?” So everybody—And then it’s like, “No, no, no. Not right now.”
And then—So okay. So we all come out the trucks, and the kid touched his vest. And his plate
was shattered, and take it off and check it. And he had a slug dead center mass in his chest.
Didn’t realize it. He was a gunner on a truck. Did not realize he got shot. And—But the irony
was he had a plate in his vest that he was supposed to switch out for the new updated ones. He
never did, so he got in trouble. So his plate saved his life that was supposed to be changed for a
plate that was supposed to save his life, and he still got in trouble because—But I just thought
that was—That was kind of interesting. You know, you took a round to the chest and didn’t—So
I don’t know if it was just that far away, but it—That thing right there was always—I was—Very
interesting to me. I was—And—But we never—I don’t think we was ever in a spot that that
happened. I don’t—So the real story—Who knows? You know, I’m—There’s my perspective,
but I just always found that interesting. Like, “Hey. You could say you took a round to the chest
and walked away.” (2:14:00)
Interviewer: “Yeah, and I suppose you were bouncing along on the truck. Might not even
notice the moment when the impact took place if it sort of was timed that way, and then
realized that you’re—The plate’s shattered. Okay. Now you’re—Are you now doing more
in conjunction with the Iraqis?”
Yes. At this deployment, it was hand in hand. We were to the point where every time we left the
base we had to have an Iraqi contingency with us. So whether it be the local police, military—
There had to be some kind of Iraqi force, and at first we were the lead. They would following.
Towards the end, they were the lead, so we pretty much were the supporting force. But that
didn’t always work out. There was one incident we were going on a scheduled raid. This was a
big maneuver planned. We show up to the Iraqi Army base. They decide to not show up for work
today. We get there. There’s one Iraqi guy there. It’s the chief. He’s like, “I don’t know where
my men are.” And I’m just—And company commander walks up to me. Grabs me by the
shoulder. He’s like, “Me, you, the chief, and this Iraqi. We’re taking point, and we’re going to go
in the building.” And I’m like, “Fuck.” You know, and me—And at this point—I’m a sergeant at
�Saladin, Philip
this point, so I was like, “Okay. I’ve got the leadership role. I have to assume my leadership
position.” So it’s me, two of my guys, two Iraqi guys, and, weirdly, the company commander.
You never see that. A company commander does not go on a stack on a wall into a building.
Sure enough, company commander’s like, “I’m coming in with you guys.” Me—as an NCO at
that time—I was kind of a little bit disgruntled because I felt like, you know, my power just got
snatched. And I was like, “Ugh.” But then I felt good. I was like, “He has trust in me. He’s going
to do this maneuver with me.” So I was like, “Sweet.” You know, and that one—We ended up
arresting some guy, but it was very interesting because our intel on that raid was—It was pretty
grim. (2:16:04) A few weeks earlier, another group had came in and got into a firefight. There
was—A Special Forces group came in and got into a firefight. The same exact area. And then we
show up to the base, and this Iraqi Army guy’s—Decide to call out. I’m like, “This—” You
know, the whole thing was just—It’s like, “Oh, man.” I was like, “This is going to be bad.” It
was nighttime. It’s two in the morning. It—The whole time I’m driving to this place my heart’s
jumping through my chest. I’m just like, “Oh my god.” I’m—I want to get sick at this point. I’m
like, “I want to be sick.” But you can’t, you know. But it turned out good. Went in. Simple thing.
Got the guy. I don’t even know if it was the guy we were looking for, but it was a guy we wanted
to arrest. Arrested him. Turned out good. Really long. Really, really, really long night, but it
turned out really good because, you know, nothing happened. But that was probably one of the
scariest—Because, you know, it’s in your head, you’re—All the calling cards for an ambush
were there, and, you know, at that time I’m—Yeah, I’m a fresh sergeant. I know enough, but the
overall picture—You know, who am I? I’m not going to be like, “Hey, sir. We can’t do this
mission.” He’s going to be like, “Yeah. Go. Get out of my face. Go get me some—A new
sergeant.” You know, but—And it’s—And it made you think, “Are we walking into it?” It
wasn’t—You know, it was—We benefited. Lucky. It turned out good for us. In our favor. We
got some great intel out of it, and it’s weird because I look back at a lot of this stuff. And I’m
like, “Man. All the times that it could’ve been—It was like it wasn’t.” And…
Interviewer: “Okay. Yeah. Now did you ever see the Iraqis function effectively?”
No. Just—Honestly, no. (2:18:01) One time close. We—And this was because we were just
sweeping a large field, and we had them online. And they were sweeping the field. That’s
probably about as effective—Like that. But there were other units that were pretty good. We got
to work a little bit. We were in Kirkuk, so we seen the Peshmerga Army and stuff like that.
Those guys are legit. Those guys—They know what they’re doing. There were small groups of
people that we didn’t work with directly that—They were functioning right, but—And that was
the thing with that area, especially in that Kirkuk area. Is you would have some units—You’re
like, “These guys [?] way—” You know, we would leave a checkpoint. Don’t even turn around.
Just don’t even look back. We just—“Adios.” Like, “You guys got this.” Another checkpoint—
You show up. You’re like, “Wow.” Like, “What’s going on here?” And—But we never worked
with one of the better units, should I say, or all the ones we worked with—They were small, and
I didn’t—Probably were—You met good people, but as far as tactically, no. I seen them shoot
themselves in the foot and try to say somebody shot them. Like, “No. It’s—No.” Like, “You
have well over twenty people here.” You know. “We know—” We could tell the difference
where, you know—Got shot. But that? I probably seen that about three or four times. Dude
shooting—And they just had this thing. They would rest their AKs on their foot. The muzzle.
Right on their toe. And they just loved playing with the trigger. They just always had their
�Saladin, Philip
finger—Always. And then it’s—You would think they would learn and—But never. It was just
like, “Dude. Just don’t play with it. Just don’t play with it.” And then that was a little big of a
problem. When we would stay on the compound with them, we put them—Unless you were
sleeping, we made our guys wear their full gear all the time. Because we slept in separate rooms,
so we had a little bit of control over the room. But if we were just walking around the area, it’s
like, “No. Put your gear on.” Like, “I don’t care we’re indoors.” Like, “These guys are too
reckless.” (2:20:07) And I don’t want to say it was just almost on purpose. Because they weren’t
dumb people. They just—Relax. Everything was like, “Meh.” Like, “If it happens, it was meant
to happen.” And when they literally say, “Everything is like that,” everything is like that.
Nothing is, “Hey. We’re on a schedule.” They’re just like, “It’ll happen when it’ll happen.” I’m
like, “No, no, no!” So—But it was interesting. That part was really cool. But met a lot of nice
people. But that mentality was…
Interviewer: “All right. Now, I mean, do you actually get to know any of these people at
all?”
Yeah. Yes, I—Especially in Kirkuk I got—And when we were staying—We would stay
overnight in the compound for a couple days. Of course, you’re going to develop a relationship
with them, and then my last name being Saladin—That intrigued them. Oh, man. That—I think
the first day they saw me, and they saw my name badge—it says, “Saladin”—they were—
Instantly just gravitated towards me. And we were talking, and it’s funny because I don’t speak a
lick of Arabic. And they’re just—And I’m just like, “I don’t know.” Then we had an interpreter,
and at this time our interpreters were actually locals. So he was talking, and then got to talking. I
can—That right there built me a real good relationship with them. They would be like, “Hey!
You want some of this, you know, bread?” And they would have their meal, and then they would
call me over. Like, “Hey! We got some—” You know, super nice, and I just—I was intrigued by
it, you know. Then I found out more. You know, they would tell me stuff about my last name
and the origins, and how he was from—He was Kurdish and all this stuff, and they were real
fascinated by it. And—But I kept the relationship there because we had a lot of other guys—
They would go friends on Facebook and stuff like that, but I was real sketchy about that because
at this time it was still—It was a lot of sketchy stuff going on over there, and a lot of the
interpreters—We would have to meet them out in the town and away. (2:22:10) Secluded areas.
They wouldn’t come to the base, or—Or they would get—You know, driving in the trunk of
somebody’s car and get drove onto the base because they were in—Living in that area. And if
they saw them—Like, “Oh. You’re working with the Americans?” You know, and it’s crazy
because at this time we were handing it back over to them, but compared to my first deployment,
I felt like the second one was more—I don’t want to say war zone or warlike, but it was because
we had—It was a lot more stuff like that. Our interpreter for instance. We’re over here sneaking.
Meeting this guy in the middle of this desert practically, climbing—With a full mask on,
climbing into the back of our truck, so we could go talk to somebody, and then dropping him off
miles away. It’s stuff like that, and then, you know—And then taking the rockets every night.
Some of our checkpoints or other platoons got in firefights, and I’m like, “When we’re here to
give you everything back and be nice, we’re getting a lot more attacked than when we were here
kicking down doors and taking you guys away.” And I know it was two complete—It was
southern Iraq and northern Iraq. Two completely different places. Maybe that had something to
�Saladin, Philip
do with it, but I just found that interesting that I felt like the combat intensity was more during
the drawdown than the surge.
Interviewer: “Yeah, so did you have much perspective in terms of thinking of the sort of
bigger picture of what was happening? You know you’re part of a drawdown, and do you
wonder, ‘What are these guys going to do when we’re not here?’” (2:24:05)
Oh, yes. That was a huge thing. It was—Just seeing how they operated already with us, it was
like, “Man.” Honestly, we were calling it. It’s—Knowing today what we know, it’s easy to say,
“Hey. I knew this was going to happen.” But we were saying it. We were like, “Man. This is not
going to turn out good because we’re just giving these guys bases and then the checkpoints—”
We start off with the checkpoints. We would—And we’ve put generators in these things. Air
conditioners. We took—We upkept them good—refurbished them—and, you know, come back a
week or two later, they’re stripped bare. Generator’s gone, air conditioner’s gone, everything—
And then it’s like, “Come on.” Like, “This is for you guys.” Like, “Now you guys are going to
be manning this checkpoint with nothing.” And one of them was completely abandoned. I’m—
So I’m like, “Okay. This is going to—” You know. And then we were giving them the bases,
too. The big bases we were shutting down. We actually were part of a big maneuver. We drove
from northern Iraq all the way to southern Iraq, and I forgot how they described it, but it was
probably one of the largest convoy maneuvers in Iraq besides the invasion. We were pretty—It
was—It was pretty much a whole base left at the one time, and we had all our vehicles
maneuvering from northern Iraq to southern Iraq over a—It was a three-day period, and it was
like, “If we’re drawing down, and stuff is this good—” We had fighter jet escorts, helicopters—
You know, each leg of the trip we were never unescorted by air support, and we’re this massive
firepower. (2:26:03) You got—It was well over a hundred vehicles. We’re armed to the tee, you
know, and—But I’m like, “So we’re giving this back, and stuff is so good. Why are we leaving
like this?” And everybody had that kind of feeling. Like, “Man.” Like, “We’re just giving this
up. We’re giving this up.” And then, you know—And then me seeing two—From two
deployments—None of these other people have way more deployments and a more intimate
experience in certain places, but I’m—I almost felt like that work—I’m like, “All that stuff is—
It’s done. It’s—It’s done.” Like, “This is the end. Is this the fruit of my labor? Is this it?” Like,
you know, “Blood, sweat, and tears. We’re just going to walk away?” But, you know, that’s what
happened, and then, you know—Then you look at the news, and you see the whole ISIS thing.
Kirkuk was one of the first places that fell. I’m—Got a little sick. I’m like, “I know this town.”
Interviewer: “All right. Now when you had that convoy—So were you leaving the base that
you had been on initially?”
Yes.
Interviewer: “And then do you set up a new base, or you just leave?”
No, we left the base and turned it over. We officially turned it over to the Iraqis, and then we
were traveling down to other bases that we had. And we would either grab an attachment with
us, and they would shut down, or they were probably still another unit there. But the main base
we were on—When we left, it was—“Okay. This is yours.”
�Saladin, Philip
Interviewer: “And from there did you just go on and leave the country?”
Yeah, yeah. That was pretty much our trip home. The start of our journey home. Usually, they
were just throwing us on airplanes and flew us to Kuwait. It was like, “Oh. You’ve got one last
mission. You’ve got to drive all the way to southern Iraq.” Because we had to—We were turning
in the vehicles to the—I guess, the main logistic port or whatever, and it’s a lot cheaper to have a
bunch of people driving than it is to fly them down, so—And it—And that itself was an
interesting trip because we got to drive to a lot of towns in Iraq. (2:28:01) We drove through—
What’s Saddam’s hometown? I can’t—
Interviewer: “Tikrit.”
Yes, and the path we took—You see everything, you know, and I was sitting up front. I got to
see all that. Some of the stuff—You’re just like, “Man.” It’s mesmerizing, you know. You’re
like, “Wow.” These buildings. And even when you see the palaces, and you go—It’s just—Man.
But then you—So destroyed.
Interviewer: “Oh, so were the palaces impressive, big things, or…?”
Yes, to me. They definitely impressed me. I got to see two of them. I didn’t get to go inside none
of them, but it’s—Just driving by and seeing them, and then just the—A lot of them—I was
looking at—Of a lot like a historical, pure perspective. I’m like, “Man.” You know. “Thousands
of years ago, this was a whole—”
Interviewer: “Yeah, yeah. You were in Assyria.”
Yes. Yeah, and actually when I was in southern Iraq, the—It’s called the Arch of Keshra. The
Gateway to Persia or whatever. My base was right there. We were tasked with keeping that
place—whatever was left of those ruins—up. But that amazed me, you know. They were like,
“This is considered the cradle of civilization.” Like, “This was the—” They called it the Gateway
to Persia, and it was like, you know, “This is the old—Historical way.” And I was amazed. I was
just like, “Man.” Like, “This thing is—It’s older than this county that’s here protecting it.” Like,
“This—” And like I got to go to one of the shrines for one of—It was, I think, one of
Muhammad’s prophets or something. I forget who it was, but it was a really religious, super
religious—I got—And then I didn’t know—I don’t know a lot about it, but it was just being in
the presence of that and understanding the historical value of it. You’re like, “Man.” Like, “This
could have been where stuff started.” You know, like, “All this kind of stuff—” It was like, “If
you really look at it, it all kind of started right there.” (2:30:05)
Interviewer: “Is there other things that stand out or particular experiences or impressions
you had that you hadn’t brought in yet?”
From the last deployment, I would say significant events—impactful events—most likely not.
That was the major we covered, but everything else was more, you know, just the day-to-day
�Saladin, Philip
operations. My son was born during my second deployment. That—I can’t believe I missed that
out, but that was huge.
Interviewer: “Okay. How do you deal with that? I mean, are you able to communicate with
home and through the process—Or do you get to go home somewhere in there?”
Yeah. I don’t know if it was set up, or just a—Fortunate of events. Just managed to work the
way—Like this. But you get your R&R during deployment, and my R&R came up exactly at the
nine months. So I was like, “Okay. Yeah. I might be home to see my son born, or, you know—
Or he might be born, and then I get home.” So that’s when I’m there. It’s like, “I might have a
good chance to see him.” So I’m like, “All right.” I’m excited about that, and I get leave to go. It
was two days worth of flying. Just long. You know, just—Get off the plane. I’m like, “Okay.
We’re going to get something to eat.” She—Son hasn’t been born yet, so we go get something to
eat. Get something to eat. We go to the house, and literally right back in the car because she went
into labor. So it was like, “Perfect timing. Let’s go.” So my—It was a two-week long R&R. My
whole first week—well, five or six days—It was spent in the hospital. (2:32:01) Then got done
with that. Got to spend the next week with my son, so I got to—That was awesome, you know,
but on the other hand, my whole perspective just changed. It was like, “Okay. I’m going back.”
But now I’m—Everything I do I’m—I don’t want to say second-guessing, but I definitely was
more cautious. I wasn’t—As opposed to just like, “All right. Let’s go do this.” Now in the back
of my head I was like, “Okay. Let me just methodically—Let me—” Not methodically. I was
always a little methodically in planning, but this time I was, I guess, just being more redundant.
I—It’s weird to say—Because you’re being careful already because where I’m at in the
environment, but it kind of increased a little. I don’t know. It—I wasn’t all about myself, but this
kind of just brought it out more where it’s not just about me, I guess you could say. I was like,
“Okay. I’ve got to make it back home.” As before, I was like, “I would like to make it back
home.” This time it was like, “I have to.”
Interviewer: “Yeah. Well, it’s sort of a reason why at times different military organizations
wanted single men for certain kinds of jobs and things like that.”
Yes. I definitely see why that would be.
Interviewer: “Yeah. Now you’ve got different set of responsibilities there at that point.
Now—And so how far into that tour was that?”
That—And it was—That was right at the middle. It was—It—I want to say probably just
above—Just past six—Either at six months or just past. Right in that middle point. Not sure
exactly.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Now a different kind of question. How would you
characterize the morale in your unit on the second tour with the 1st Cavalry as opposed to
your previous one?”
I would say the second tour—The morale was—It was—As far as cohesiveness morale, we all
got along. We’re all really good. That was great. You know, our platoon—We were—Great
�Saladin, Philip
bunch of guys. (2:34:00) I was—That was my first significant leadership role in combat because
before I was just a team leader. This time I had the role of a platoon sergeant for a few weeks
because I was a senior staff sergeant. Just, you know—No, not staff sergeant. I was a senior
sergeant. I was—
Interviewer: “In the platoon, right?”
Yes, so we had—Our platoon sergeant was gone, so I got—I had to fill in that seat, so I did that
for a little bit. So I got a lot of good experience, and in that manner it was all—The soldiers were
good. A lot of young guys. They were, you know, just fresh, full of energy, ready to go, but this
was a different—Their perspective was—I guess what they thought they were going to go—You
know, they were like, “Oh, yeah. We’re going to war.” I don’t know if they were like, “Okay.
We’re going to go get into this shooting war.” They’re expecting intense firefights or what it
was, but I’m—And I told them. I was like, “Even in my first deployment where that was—Was
going on in a lot of parts of Iraq—That—For us, we didn’t see it as much as you would think,
even though we had some catastrophic events.” It’s like, “You didn’t—” I was like, “It’s not like
that. In other places I’m pretty sure many other soldiers experienced that.” I’m like, “From my
experience—” I’m like, “It’s not like that.” You know. “And if they do happen, matter of a
couple of minutes, it’s done. It’s not this, ‘Oh.’” You know. “You’re in a three-day firefight.”
You know, it just wasn’t happening at that time, so I think that kind of took away from them a
little bit because they kind of felt—I don’t want to say short-changed in the deployment, but as
an infantryman, you’re naturally looking for that. You join to be in combat. To go fight. That’s
what you want, and it’s like, you know, you’re letting them loose. Like, “Hey. Go.” But there’s
nothing there. You know, it’s just this constant defensive posture, and then you’re like, “Okay.
Why am I doing this? Why am I doing that?” And I think that was one of the hardest challenges.
Was being able to keep that morale up with those guys because all we were doing was just, you
know, driving around in circles pretty much.
Interviewer: “Yeah, but there were still people trying to kill you, but it wasn’t IEDs. It was
rockets.”
Exactly, but, you know, I understood that. I was—You know, but them—They were like,
“Nobody’s shooting. We’re not shooting.” (2:36:03) I’m like, “Okay, but you don’t need to be
shot.” I’m like, “I’d rather get shot than blow up.” You know, I was like, “You could fight back a
bullet.” I was like, “You ain’t fighting a bomb.” So it’s—But they didn’t see that perspective.
You know, they wanted to come and hunt the bad guy. You know, kick down—We were kicking
down doors, but it was—It wasn’t the movie scenes, I guess you could say. It wasn’t that, and
they were a little bit bummed about that. But they were still a great group of guys. Everybody
was always happy. I never had an issue with worrying about, you know—Like, “Okay. Is this
guy going to do something he shouldn’t do?” I never had to deal with that. Everybody was—
Great people. It’s a—And the environment was better, too. The quality of living. So I guess that
improved. You know, that helped a lot as opposed to if we were stuck in some horrible, little box
with nothing. Then maybe a different story. But yeah, quality of living was pretty good there,
too.
�Saladin, Philip
Interviewer: “All right. Now how much time do you have left on your enlistment when you
head back home?”
So I headed back home—I was about—Was it four years I had? Probably three or four years.
When I came back—So I was probably finishing the better part of three years left to my—
Because I don’t know—I was in my window I think in the next year or so where I could be reenlist, so I think I was at the three year mark because—It’s funny that question came up because
that kind of rolls into the next—My, I guess—I call it my next event in the military. We come
back. You know, now we’re just resetting. Doing normal stuff. Just qualifying with weapons.
Nothing intense or crazy. Just—Almost just your basic stuff, and then...
Interviewer: “Okay. Are you back at Fort Hood?”
Yes, yes. We came back to Fort Hood at this time. We—Getting all the new guys because
usually when you come back from a deployment, units get reshuffled. People leave. I stay at this
unit. We get a whole group of new guys in. Slowly building up to start getting to a deployable
force again, but that’s still, you know—We’re not on those calendars, so we’ve got a good
stretch of downtime. (2:38:02) I get orders, and it’s—My first sergeant comes walking down the
hallway. He’s just—All I hear is, “Saladin!” And I turn around, and I’m like, “Great. He has a
piece of paper in his hand.” I’m like, “What’s going on?” You know, that’s—Any soldier—You
hear your name, and somebody higher ranking than you with a piece of paper in his hand is
coming at you, you’re—You’re never thinking nothing good. Automatically, you’re like, “Wait.
What’s going on? I didn’t do nothing.” You know, so I’m—He’s like, “I’ve got a surprise for
you.” And he has a smirk on his face, and I’m like, “Great. I probably got some dumb detail I’ve
got to do now.” He’s like, “I’ve got you orders.” So I’m like, “Orders?” So I’m like, “Oh. Am I
going to a new unit?” I’m like, “Interesting.” So I’m thinking—He’s like, “You’re going to be a
recruiter.” And I was like, “Oh.” So yeah, and then he starts laughing. And I didn’t want to be a
recruiter. It just wasn’t my thing, but, you know, got my orders. Complete the mission. It’s
Charlie Mike. Okay.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now how do they turn you into a recruiter?”
So that’s the next awesome part of that. So you have to go to a school. So you do a bunch of
stuff, do a bunch of paperwork, get all your stuff ready. They ship you off, and the school was—
It’s a—This one—I don’t—There’s probably more or not, but the one I went to was in South
Carolina. It’s a bunch of—A mixture of different schools and basic trainees. A bunch of different
schools on that base.
Interviewer: “Okay. Were you at Fort Jackson or somewhere else?”
Was it Fort—Yes, it was Fort Jackson. Was it—Yes.
Interviewer: “That’s a big Army base in South Carolina.”
Yes, yes, yes. Fort Jackson. It was Fort Jackson because I remember I had to walk the first day,
and it was far. So get there. Get to the airport. I’m in Fort Jackson. I get dropped off at my
�Saladin, Philip
sleeping—And they’re like, “Okay. The school is down this road. Be there. Seven o’ clock in the
morning.” (2:40:01) “Okay.” You know. Get up at seven o’ clock. I get up early. It’s like I don’t
know nobody. First day here. So I just start walking down the road, and I’m like, “Where’s this
school?” It’s pretty early in the morning. You know, I gave myself enough time, but it was a
long walk. It was a few miles. I’m not sure. I finally get there, and I’m like, “Okay. I’m here at
the school. I’m doing everything I have to do.” And I’m—I don’t want to be here. You know,
that’s—I’m not hiding the feeling. You know—Well, I’m not showing it to other people, but
everybody that knew me knew I didn’t want to be there. So get there. First day. Meet friends.
Meet a bunch of people. Start doing classes. About three days in—I think it’s a month-long class,
too. I’m not—I don’t remember. But three days in, they come in. They go, “Everybody has to go
and do a one-on-one sitdown with a civilian doctor.” Okay. I get called up. It’s my turn to go. I
sit there. We talk for about two hours. Just asking me all these questions, you know, and, all of a
sudden, we’re done. We leave. Okay. Go back to class. Do everything I’m doing. And I actually
had to re-enlist to be able to go to recruiter school. I forgot to mention this. Because my
window—I was at two years, and you needed three years to be able to go to recruiter school
because you had to do a three-year commitment. So me? I was—I could’ve took the opportunity
and just got out of recruiter school. I was like, “No. I’m going to do the right thing.” I re-enlisted.
I was like, “I’m going to do it.” In my mind—Even though at this time in my mind I was—I was
still thinking I was going to be a lifer. I was going to do about twenty plus years in the military.
So okay. I re-enlist. Get everything done. Show up to class the next morning. I’ve got a yellow
slip on my desk. “Go see such and such.” Okay. Go downstairs. “You’re disqualified from
recruiter school.” So part of me is relieved. (2:42:01) I’m like, “Yes! I get to go back.” But part
of me is like, “Wait. What? What’s going on?” I’m—I was doing good on all my tests. I’m—
Every test I took I passed. Everything—I’m getting along. Everything’s good. There’s no strikes
against me. It’s like, “Yeah. This doctor said you can’t be a recruiter.” I’m like, “Why?” They
were like, “Oh. From your interview results, it says you’re not fit to be a recruiter.” It’s—I don’t
know. I was like, “What are you trying to say?” Like, “Am I crazy?” Like, “What’s going on?”
But that was the most of any information I got. Then they just call your unit. Get a plane ticket.
You’re out of here tomorrow morning or whenever it is. And I’m like, “This is crazy.” I’m—
And part of me is still upset, but I don’t know why. I’m like, “ I didn’t want to be here to begin
with.” I’m—But this person has no clue about anything I just did, what I’ve done, what I’m
going through, and I can’t be a recruiter? I’m like, “Who else would you want to be a recruiter?”
Like, “I’m doing everything that you’re recruiting people to come do.” And so I didn’t—I’m,
you know—“Whatever.” I ate it with a grain of salt. In the back of my head, now I’m like, “I just
re-enlisted. Ugh.” So I’m angry. I get back to Fort Hood. We’re in a training cycle, so I go
straight to the field. So I’m doing that. Training. Boom, boom, boom. Then, all of a sudden, I
have to go see some doctors. Doctors are like, “Hey.” And I guess I was referred to go see a
doctor earlier. I don’t know if I blew it off, or I just forgot. I say I forgot. They say I ignored
them. So I had to go, and then that kind of started my process of me getting out. That’s what I
call it at that point. That was my turning point because I started seeing—I don’t want to say—It
was almost like, “Oh. You should get out.” But it was like they almost make it to the point where
it’s like that because it’s—You know, you get limited to what you could do. They’re like, “Oh.
You can’t go out and do this no more.” Like, “You’re not allowed to do this no more.” (2:44:05)
And then it’s like, “Okay, so I can’t go train. I’ve got to stay here.” And so now I’m—Because
these doctors want to keep evaluating me and talking to me and all this stuff. I’m—“All right.
Whatever.” I’m doing everything they want to do, but I’m still training at the same time. Then,
�Saladin, Philip
finally, it just got to the point where I had a lot of physical stuff I was trying to deal with, and
that was just another headache on top of itself because they really wasn’t—It was more—You
know, my shoulder, for instance. I’m like, “Hey. This hurts.” It was like, “All right. Let’s go do
this.” It was almost like just keep putting Band-Aids on it, and I guess you could say I got tired
of it, which—I think that part was the worst because I was—I didn’t want to do it no more. I was
just like, “It’s not what I—” It wasn’t what I wanted. I wasn’t doing my stuff, and then at this
time the Army—The military itself was taking an interesting turn as opposed to when I first
came in. It was starting to be operated a lot more like a public corporation—business—as
opposed to an army. You’re training people to kill, but you want me to not discipline them when
they do something wrong? So it was just—It was getting interesting. You know, when I was a
brand new private, I messed up. I was going to sweat. You were going to learn. You was either
going to be strong or smart in the military, and that’s the way it was, especially in the infantry.
Like, “Okay. Your—” Your sole purpose of joining is to fight. But it’s crazy. You have—“Okay.
You can’t make them do more than five pushups no more.” So me—as an NCO, as a leader—I
got guys in there, and there are right ways of training, a right way to correct people and all that,
but your power was getting so limited. And it was getting to the point—I felt, personally—I
don’t know how everybody else felt, but personally, it was like the brand new privates were
having more power than the NCOs. (2:46:04) It was almost to the point if you made a brand new
private feel uncomfortable, you could get in trouble. They would report you to such and such—
AIG or whatever, whoever you want, whatever they were—and next thing you know, you have
an investigation on you because you’re supposedly, you know, mistreating soldiers because
you’re making them stay late. Because you’re making them mop the floors. Because you’re
making them do Army stuff. But apparently, the Army stuff is not good no more. So that was—I
was like, “I can’t do this no more.” I couldn’t—I was like, “I don’t—” I was done with all the
medical stuff too piling on top of me, and then you have these doctors telling me, “Oh. You
know, you should take all these medications. You—” And I was—And me? I felt perfectly fine.
Nobody around me thought I was—Issues. I was still training with my guys, leading them, and
effective, so I was—I was going through the ranks pretty fast. I made staff sergeant in what?
Five years? So—And I actually received my staff sergeant before I received my first evaluation
as a regular sergeant, so I think I was doing pretty good. And then just to get these civilian
doctors telling me that they think I don’t—I’m not mentally capable—or physically or whatever
they want to say—of doing the job that—I think that was my turning point because when that
happened, I was just like, “I’m done.”
Interviewer: “Okay. Now these civilian doctors—Did you have a sense of whether they
were psychiatrists or just regular doctors or…?”
It was a mix. I was seeing a little bit of both. I was seeing a psychiatrist, and I was seeing regular
doctors for physical stuff and stuff. And the physical stuff, I would say—Okay. Some of it was a
concern, but I still wasn’t being limited on my performance, I would say, at the time. I don’t
know if it was just what it was going on.
Interviewer: “Yeah, and do you know where the shoulder injury came from?”
That is the—I have no one event. (2:48:02) It could be a cumulation of events or something, but
it’s interesting because the doctor who looked at it—He tells me it’s one of the top ten worst
�Saladin, Philip
cases he’s ever seen, and I’m like, “Well, I’ve been living with that for so many years.” And it
was in the military, but that was one of those things, too. I was so focused on just doing my job
and what I had to do that all that stuff was secondary. I get up. My shoulder—Arm’s going numb
on me, but I’m like, “No. I have to go to work and make sure my soldiers are there and make
sure they’re taken care of.” And just—I think years of just throwing that on top of each other left
me to where I’m at now, but at that time I wasn’t thinking like that. At that time I was, you
know—“I’m a robot. I can do this.”
Interviewer: “Yeah, but you didn’t notice any one specific injury that happened. It’s just
that over time it accumulates, and whatever it was got worse. And you weren’t complaining
about it, so it wasn’t get treated.”
Well, I—Sometime—It got to a point where it was getting bad, and I started complaining about
it. But I didn’t want to take it to the point where they would—It would remove me from the unit
because honestly, if it got to the point—If I keep complaining, keep complaining, then they’d be
like, “Okay. So obviously, you can’t do this. So guess what? You’re not going to go train.
You’re not going to do—” And I didn’t want to do that at the time. I still wanted to be with the
guys and training, so I would’ve complained to tell them like, “Hey. I’ve got something wrong
with my shoulder. Could we look at it?” And that’s it. I wasn’t—It wasn’t every day I’m like,
“Hey. My shoulder, my shoulder.” I was just—I’d bring it up. “Okay. Yeah.” And then—Or I
would go, and they’d be like, “Hey. Just take a couple Motrins and some water. Keep it moving.”
Interviewer: “Yeah, yeah. Now did the psychiatrists think you had a traumatic brain
injury?”
I did have a traumatic brain injury. They were saying—They thought I had PTSD and—I forget
what they said. Not—Reintegrating. (2:50:10) They said I was having issues reintegrating, but
I’m like, “You spend a year in a country where everybody’s trying to kill you, it’s going to take a
little bit of time to adjust when you get back.” You know, it was like I’m laying in my bed at
night alone—apartment—and I hear a loud noise, for the last couple months I’m reacting. Of
course, I’m going to get up and react. And that was my thing. I understand there’s people who do
have those issues, but I felt I had it under control because I recognized it from the beginning.
Like, “Okay.” Like, “I notice I’m extra tentative. I notice I’m triple-checking my windows and
doors.” I noticed everything I was doing. It wasn’t like people are telling me like, “Hey. You’re
acting different.” It was like I was intentionally doing it, and I knew what I was controlling.
Controlling what I—I was purposely doing it, I guess to say. But they—I guess that wasn’t the—
I should—The way I should have been acting when I came back.
Interviewer: “Yeah, well, it looks like—Especially if you’re—Were you telling any of this to
the doctors? The psychiatrists?”
When they would ask me, I would tell them. Because I’m the type of person—I didn’t see it as
an issue, so I was like, “I’m not going to hide it all back.” I was like, “I’m going to tell you
straight up how I’m feeling. I’m not going to sit here and be like, ‘Oh. Nothing’s going on.’ And
then, you know—” If I had something wrong, I’m like, “Hey. Am I extra aware right now? Yes,
I am.” But I knew why. I knew it was because—Okay. I just spent twelve months getting blown
�Saladin, Philip
up, and random rockets falling around me at three in the morning almost five times a week.
Yeah, I think anybody would be a little jittery, but…
Interviewer: “But at that point then they’re checking off boxes, and I expect that in the
Army any box ever checked off just follows you.”
Yes.
Interviewer: “And so these can accumulate, and they go, ‘Oh, okay, so he’s damaged goods.
So we’ll move him out or something like that.’”
And honestly, that’s how I felt. (2:52:00) But it got to that point where I was just—I’m just, you
know—And it’s funny because when I was in, I kind of saw that with soldiers prior. Got hurt—
whatever—and you would see them. As time would go on, you would know. You’re like, “Okay.
He’s about to get out.” Because you could kind of like just see the change in the person and
everything. And then when you’re on that side, you’re like, “Man.” It hurt. It was one of those
few moments that I said it hurt, and I was just like, “Man. I’m actually—” When I realized it’s
coming to an end, I was like, “Okay.” Then—And then I, you know—And then you start seeing
it, and you’re like, “Whoa. I’m not part of this.” They start going out, you know, and it’s…
Interviewer: “Okay. Now did they allow you to end your enlistment early, or what happens
to you?”
No. Well, that depends how it falls because if you get—Because the way I got out—They
medically retired me. So they do the process, and that can take six months, a year, two, three
years. It all depends on how fast the Army’s moving, how much paper you have, whatever
random unicorn reason the Army has that they—Takes them thousands of years. But mine was—
It probably took the better part of a year and a half to do everything, but you get the notice. I go
to—I had an appointment with one of the doctors. I go there. He gives me this piece of paper.
He’s like, “We’re starting your separation as of today.” And then I’m like, “Ugh.” You know,
it’s like, “Ugh.” Like, “Okay.” You know, and at that point I’m not going to say I was
completely against it. But part of me was upset because—I was like, “Okay. This is coming to an
end.” But then I was also like, “Whatever.” You know, it meant—It was my faith. It meant to
happen at that point. I was just like, “Whatever.” So—And then that’s where I was at there, and
then it’s just like, “Okay.” And then this time the union’s kind of picking back up because they
got—They didn’t come to orders yet, but I guess they were coming down on orders because you
started noticing all the restructuring and started putting together teams and everything. (2:54:12)
And me? I’m trying to get in there so bad. I’m trying. I’m talking to everybody I can. I’m like,
“There’s nothing you can do.” I’m like, “Come on. Just let me deploy.” I was like, “When I
come back from this deployment, I’ll get out. I’ll listen to whatever doctor wants to tell—Other
than—Let me just do this one deployment.” And I don’t know why I wanted to do it so bad. It
was—But—And in my head, I’m like, “You’re about to get out.” But in my voice I’m like, “I
want to go.” So—Of course, I didn’t go. They didn’t take me. I got stuck in an office. I was
the—They made me the Supply NCO, so I got to sit in a supply room for a few months and just
twiddle my thumbs and check the boxes off, you know. “Hey. Okay. Blah, blah, blah.” Go to this
�Saladin, Philip
appointment. Go to this meeting. Do what you’ve got to do. Then that’s—It was pretty much it,
so it was almost a slow Band-Aid. It’s just, “Shh.” And it—Ugh.
Interviewer: “Okay. Now when you come back from a deployment, do they make any effort
to sort of help you reintegrate?”
Yes. They have a thirty-day reintegration period. I—My first deployment, I swear, was a little bit
longer. Well, no. My first deployment was thirty days. I think my second one was a little bit
shorter, or it might have been thirty days. But they do have it. You’ve got to go to classes. I
know my first deployment. I know that one a little better, and I don’t know if it was because we
were overseas they did it like this. But we weren’t even allowed to leave the base. Curfew’s set
in. You can’t leave. You have to be at work, you know. I think the first few days you weren’t
allowed to drink. The rules come down. It’s just—You’re locked in. (2:56:01) But then as time
went on, we were allowed more stuff. In Fort Hood when we came back, it was a Friday, and it
was like, “Okay. Four-day weekend. See you guys Tuesday.” Monday. Whatever the following
workday was. But then when we came back, it was classes, orientation, just…
Interviewer: “Did any of that stuff do any good?”
Oh, man, I—Personally? Physically, I would say I saw—For your physical health, I saw a
purpose because they did all that too, and there they could—They’ll get a little bit more stuff, but
as far as, you know—Like, “Hey. Okay. You’re back here.” Social—No. It was more like,
“Okay. Welcome back to the Army. Blah, blah, blah. Don’t go out. Don’t drink and drive.” It
wasn’t—It’s not like what, I guess, somebody would think. Like, “Okay. Reintegration. They
must be like doing all this crazy, scientific stuff.” No. It was just a lot of just sit down,
paperwork, talk to doctors.
Interviewer: “Yeah. I guess I would expect something along the lines of just talking to you,
reminding you of the differences between the civilian world and the military one. Which
kinds of reactions and responses or things you might have are going to be normal and what
you have to watch out for or adjust.”
Yeah. You would think, but no. They—And if they did, I don’t remember. But I remember a lot
of it, and I don’t remember that part. You know, them saying, “Hey.” They do tell you—I’m
trying to think if there’s anything like that or something that was close to that. It was more
probably—This is probably more personal. More me because I got a lot of extra classes, I guess,
for my stuff. They were to teach you—They called it self-induced stress or real stress. Like,
“Okay.” They’re like, “Okay. You’re actually tensing up yourself. The situation’s not tense.”
(2:58:01) That was—But that was, I think—Not everybody got that. I—Yeah.
Interviewer: “Yeah, so some of it is they’re talking to you. But some of it—Kind of the
PTSD type symptoms and things and here’s what to watch out for and here are coping
strategies, or—”
That? Honestly, no. And you would think, especially at that time with everything that was going
on, they would have focused on that a lot more. But that was something—If you had a legit issue
�Saladin, Philip
going on, and then they took you—So you would get singled out and brought to a doctor and
then probably dealt with like that. But as a mass? Maybe now, but they didn’t have that then.
Interviewer: “Okay. All right. Okay, so when do you actually get out then?”
So it was 2014. I don’t remember the month. It was summertime sometime because I was in
Texas, and it was hot. I get out. I took about, say, three to five months—Just did nothing. I was
like, “I’m not—”
Interviewer: “Where did you go?”
I stayed in Texas, but I was like, “I’m not—” I went back to Jersey. I took a little road trip. I
drove from Texas to New Jersey. Just me, my son, and the dog. Just traveled. Just pretty much
saw family. I just didn’t want to do nothing. I was like, “I just don’t want no—” I can’t say no
responsibilities, but I was like, “I don’t—I want to be able to wake up and not be having a
timeline or a schedule.” Like, “I want to get away from all schedules possible.” And then—And,
you know, did that. After a couple months—I think it was three, four months—I went to school
because I got bored. I was so bored. I was like, “Okay. This is fun.” I was like, “I need to do
something.” And—
Interviewer: “All right. Now did you have money saved up from being in the Army, or…?”
I had a little bit of money saved up from being in. At this time, I was with my wife now. We
were together. She was way more financially conscious than me, so—She was in the military,
too. When we met, I was that guy—You know, like, “Okay. I got paid. Now—” Tomorrow wake
up. “I’m broke.” (3:00:06) But she reined that in fast, so when I got out, we were pretty—We
were okay, and then since I went—Since I always got the med board and all that stuff, I was still
kind of—I was still getting paid, and then I went to school. So I started bringing some income in
like that.
Interviewer: “Okay, and where did you go to school?”
I—My—Initially, I went to Austin Community College, and I got an Associate’s degree in
automotive technology. I wanted to work on cars—I love cars—which is crazy because my
initial entry—I was going to be a teacher. And I was like, “No. I want to go work on cars.” And I
went into the field. I was actually working at this pretty nice shop in Texas—you know, super
high-end shop, working with these cool cars—but my back and my shoulder catch up to me. And
it’s probably six months in, and I’m just like, “Okay. I’m hurting.” You know, but I’m—I
couldn’t see myself doing this and supplying for my family, and at this time my daughter was
born. Had a newborn at this time too, so it was just like, “Yeah. This is not going to work. I’m—
” You know. “I could probably do this job for another two years, and I’m not going to be
effective anymore.” So I went back to school, and—Well, actually, we moved to Michigan, and
then I went back to school.
Interviewer: “All right, so how did you wind up in Michigan?”
�Saladin, Philip
My wife’s from Michigan.
Interviewer: “Aha.”
Yes. I call it Southern Canada because it’s so cold. But I gave in. I fought the good fight. We
were in Texas for a while, but then she kind of hit me with reality. My son at the time was living
in Indiana with his mom. She was from Michigan. My family’s from New Jersey. We had
nothing in Texas besides Army friends who themselves were stationed to somewhere else and
leaving or getting out and going—So, finally, it’s like, “Okay.” You know. “I’m planning on
going back to school. Let’s just make the move now. Just in time for Michigan winter.”
(3:02:05) It was November of—Was last year or two years behind now. Just in time. So, you
know, I went from my Texas, beautiful winters to this. To real winters again.
Interviewer: “Oh, come on. It gets cold in New Jersey sometimes.”
Oh, yes, but Texas kind of babied me. I would go there. Have winter for what? A month? But—
And then it’s like, you know, I’ll be barbequing for Christmas. But it—I came back here. Then I
was like, “Oh, yeah. This is what winter feels like.” But it’s—You know, it’s good. It’s good. I
like it.
Interviewer: “All right. Now if you, I guess, sort of look back a little bit on the whole thing,
in the end, what do you think you took out of being in the Army?”
Oh, man. I took out so much. I would do it all over again. I say I wouldn’t change nothing as far
as my experience and everything. Maybe a career choice or a school or something like that I
would change, but I have no regrets. Maybe push myself a little harder in some things. Maybe,
you know—Who knows what could have happened? But it’s always easier to say, “Who knows,”
than at that moment. But I would do it all over. It definitely—I was pretty all over the place
before I joined. I wasn’t—You know, I wasn’t thinking of next month. I was—Whatever. I got in
the Army. The Army showed me to grow up. I—Responsibility. It definitely showed me how to
handle stuff. I definitely learned that, and, I guess, the best way I could put it is be a leader. But
I’d say the qualities like being able to listen to people, being able to talk to people, being able to
see things from a completely different perspective. As—One time—Even before I joined, I
would see something. I’m instantly—Be like, “Boom.” Make up my mind. I’m like, “Oh.” You
know. Like, “That’s a chair, and that’s it.” You couldn’t change me, but now I’m like, “Well,
that’s a chair. I could also use it as a stool. It could also be a fortified spot if need be.” (3:04:05)
You know, now I’m analyzing everything at—Which it’s a—It—I look at it as a plus—a good
thing—because I use it with my kids and everything and life in general. And I’m—Overall, I
would say, one of the—Personally, the best things I took out of it was I’m at peace with myself,
and I’m so much more accepting of everything. It’s a weird, weird way, but it’s just—Stuff that
used to drive me nuts before—I’m just like, “Well, I’m—I can’t do nothing about it no matter
how angry—Whatever I get to try to do.” It’s like, “It’s not going to change. It happened. Let’s
think about how to fix it if I don’t like it or how to make it better or just get away.” And it just—
The—It just took—Everything now was like that for me in life. It’s like everything is way
more—Even school. I went back to school. I joined the Army to, say, get away to—From
college. Is what I say. And I’m back here, but I see the difference of how I was in school then
�Saladin, Philip
and now. And I’m just like, “Wow.” If I had this brain back in 2004, who knows the
possibilities?
Interviewer: “All right. Now this tape is just about done, so we’re kind of going to—We’ll
close out here before we cut you off in a sense. But thank you very much for taking the time
to share the story today.”
Yes. Thank you. (3:05:31)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
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1914-
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
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Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
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eng
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
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RHC-27_SaladinP2293V
Title
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Saladin, Philip (Interview transcript and video), 2019
Date
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2019-02-12
Description
An account of the resource
Philip Saladin was born in Bayonne, New Jersey, in 1982. He was attending college during the attacks on 9/11 and eventially joined the Army National Guard in 2005. While in Basic Training, he decided that he wanted to go on active duty, and was sent to Baumholder, Germany, where he joined the 2nd Battalion, 6th Infantry Regiment, 1st Armored Division as part of the Battalion Headquarters S3 (Operations) staff. When it was deployed to Iraq, his unit operated out of combat operations post Capper, conducting patrols and raids targeting Al Qaeda leaders. His unit eventually returned to Germany, and Saladin was reassigned to the 2nd Battalion, 12th Cavalry, in the 1st Cavalry Division. In 2011, his new unit was redeployed to Iraq where it conducted armored patrols and worked with Iraqi and Kurdish forces in Kirkuk. Saladin suffered a traumatic brain injury when his truck hit an IED, but was able to remain with his unit and return with them to Fort Hood after the deployment. He was finally discharged in 2014.
Creator
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Saladin, Philip
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
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video/mp4
application/pdf
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Text
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Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27
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Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401.
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
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eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f4f168f174ec0a2509ca38ec3349f174.mp4
87e575a98d1e9c4e47580a378dda9926
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/165e2cc92c22a4e45adc42cf2555f933.pdf
79719d538aaf2b239cb846af93a9f7c8
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Matthew Oudbier
Interview Length: (2:24.12)
Interviewed by: James Smither
Transcribed by: Chloe Dingens
Interviewer: We're talking today with Matthew Oudbeir of Allendale, Michigan and the
interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History
Project. Okay Matthew, start us off with some background on yourself and to begin with,
where and when were you born?
So, I was born in Bremerton, Washington. My dad was in the Marine Corps and so he was
initially stationed out on Camp Pendleton in California and then it was assigned to leave marine
security guard at, in Bremerton. So, my mother relocated up there. I was born and then shortly
after they moved back down to Pendleton, but that's where I was born.
Interviewer: Okay and then did you move around a lot when you grew up or did you stay
in the San Diego area?
(1.15)
Not so much, we I mean we for the most part all I remember is Camp Pendleton, we lived on
base housing for the most part. I think we lived out the uptown for a while, but my parents are
from Grand Rapids, Michigan so after my dad had gotten out they moved back and I think I was
about ten at the time we moved back and then I spent the rest of my time growing up in Grand
Rapids.
Interviewer: Okay then now what do you remember, or what sticks in your mind about the
time growing up in Camp Pendleton? Just being a kid there.
�So, my dad served during the Persian Gulf, so he had actually gone on deployment, so I mean
there was a small period that I remember him being gone for a while and then just family
watching the news. Kind of checking up what's going on there and then I remember the
homecoming, actually I remember the before they left they had a family, a family day and they
had lined up all the- all the weapons and had blank rounds in them and stuff and had some of the
Humvees and the tanks out there so we could, the kids can you know check them out and stuff.
But you know I- I don't think I really understood the, especially when we lived on base housing
didn’t really understand the community that we lived in, that everyone there had a parent serving
in the military in some capacity, and I don't think I really understood that it was just kind of
being a kid and…
(2.47)
Interviewer: It's just what was there. Okay so then you're ten years old and you moved to
Grand Rapids, and then what was that transition like?
You know it wasn't difficult, I think. So we ended up staying with my dad's mom, my
grandmother for the first couple months when- when we moved back in, while my parents were
looking for housing and then I know my dad had kind of bounced around jobs for a while when
he got out and eventually got a position at the post office which he has been working ever since.
So, but for me it was kind of, kind of roll with it. I had three younger… or two younger brothers
at the time who were in somewhat close proximity of age to me, so I was you know busy with
them and you know just kind of being a kid, I guess.
(3.38)
Interviewer: Alright and so where'd you go to high school?
�I bounced around high school's quite a bit. So, I initially went to East Kentwood for freshmen
and sophomore year. Then I went to Creston for a year and then after that I went to Northview
Alternative. My, at that point my- my decision was to join the Marine Corps so at that point I
was kind of ready to finish school and I was actually in a position where East Kentwood had
more credits, I'd earn more credits than I needed and so going to Northview alternative I'd only
have to stay there for another semester and then I'd be able to graduate early so I was able to
ship- ship off to boot camp you know before the summer, before I actually graduated.
Interviewer: Okay and- and at what point did you decide that you wanted to go into the
Marine Corps?
(4.33)
I think it was my- my sophomore year what I really kind of made that decision. You know I
think it was a lot of things that kind of played into that my- my dad being in the Marine Corps. I
think the year, the year prior to my sophomore year the September 11th attacks occurred, and I
really, I guess I didn't see any other kind of options, there wasn't a whole lot I guess I had going
for me at the time. I was not the, I mean I was a bright student but I was not I had a problem with
authority and I guess joining the Marine Corps was maybe not the first conclusion you make, but
I figured I- I could use that to kind of get myself straightened out in a way.
Interviewer: You would kind of have to learn to deal with Authority at that point.
Yes.
Interviewer: Because you were going to get a lot of it, but you had a pretty good
understanding on some level of what the Marine Corps was all about because you'd grown
up with it.
Yes.
�(5.35)
Interviewer: Okay, alright and do you remember how you learned about 9/11?
So I was, I believe it was my freshman year. I was in, I want to say a history class if I'm not
mistaken and someone came down the hall and said, you know, “turn on the TV,” and they
turned on the TV and we sat there and watched what was kind of unfolding and no one really
knew what was going on so, you know what you know I believe we finish out the day you know
as- as kind of normal after that but it was kind of people were kind of confused on what was
going on.
Interviewer: Right.
For the most part.
Interviewer: Okay, alright so then so when do you actually you- you finish high school and
so when you actually enter the Marine Corps?
So that was in February 2004. I had, they had the Delayed Entry Program and I had signed up for
that in my beginning of my senior year which I believe is where they will accept people in the
Delayed Entry Program. So, I was signed up for that and I had let the recruiter know what was
my plans were to graduate a semester early. So after December I had gotten all the credits I
needed to graduate and then he told me that “well we're just gonna once we have an open slot for
you we're gonna put you in there so you are kind of at a moment's notice at this point,” and then
come February I got the- the call saying that they're gonna take me down to MEPs in Lansing
and process me to- to enlist.
Interviewer: Okay, now how much, in the year when you were going in, I mean how much
kind of test taking and processing did you do before you actually went off to training?
(7.25)
�So, I mean there was the ASVAB that we had to take, and I took that in I want to say my- my
junior year maybe, and I had done exceptionally well on there. And then like in the Delayed
Entry Program they, because you have to do a… they want you to do an initial PFT so it's…
Interviewer: Is it a physical?
Yeah physical training test and it's like a half- a mile and a half run and sit ups and pull ups and
so I had done that before I enlisted, before actually when I was in the Delayed Entry Program
and in the Delayed Entry Program they kind of go through a, you know they tried to help training
acts, kind of some of the- the basic things you're gonna need to know. You do a little marching,
they do physical fitness activities some, a lot of organized sports or hiking stuff like that. I
actually didn't participate a whole lot with that because I figured I was going to be joining and I'd
be getting a load of that stuff so…
Interviewer: Right.
But they- they had some of that and I did participate with some.
(8.33)
Interviewer: Okay and then were you, before you go out there, were you given a chance to
kind of express preference for what kind of training you would get or would that all come
later?
So yeah I was asked and I asked to join the infantry and they for some reasons said they didn't
have any positions open for that because I had and I, I don't know if it was because I had a high
ASVAB score that they didn't want to put me in there, or it was because they were actually full
in infantry position I don't know if that's possible. But so, I ended up signing for a general field,
which was command and control electrician. It's kind of a broad field and then I ended up getting
assigned to a radio operator because I initially was going to sign in open contract, just so I could
�you know they could put me where I needed to, kind of roll the dice. And see how that goes and
my recruiter was like well you got to pick something or at least an area of specialty and stuff. So,
that's what I end up doing and I come to find out I be a radio operator which is, in my opinion
kind of the- the next best thing and in a way because you actually get to, there's more flexibility
with the radio operator, every unit has radio operators, every unit needs them so you can be an
infantry units, you can be an air units, you can be in whatever.
(9.56)
Interviewer: Okay, alright so now they take you, okay so where do you do your basic
training?
I did mine in San Diego and at the Recruit Depot there and that was 13 weeks and lots of fun.
Interviewer: Okay now in the Vietnam era there was gonna the whole ritual surrounding
actually arriving there, coming in in the middle of the night, and all of this kind of stuff. So,
what happens when you go out there? When you first arrive, how does that work?
I mean I believe it's not a whole lot different than- than it's been in the past, I mean we arrived
and it was it was late at night and we get to the yellow footprints there the- the bus driver was
really nice and then when we pulled up yellow footprints and they got blinding white lights
shining on the- on the area and then the drill instructors come on and start barking orders,
everyone get out on the footprints and then you kind of go through in-processing. You know the
I think the- the first thing you do is get the haircut and then you go through and you get- get
loaded in with equipment and stuff, so you get uniforms and then hygiene equipment all kinds of
stuff. You just kind of you know corralled through this thing and then eventually you get into a
receiving barracks and I think we're actually in receiving for like three days. Waiting and after
that whole initial period it kind of really slows down and you're just kind of being marched from-
�from chow to you know, breakfast to lunch to dinner and then I think you're doing cleaning and
stuff in between just kind of to hold you over but you're not doing a whole lot in the receiving.
(11.38)
Interviewer: Okay and how much of this were you expecting when you went in?
Well the initial stuff I was expecting the- the latter part of the receiving, not really, I mean I think
a lot of us it was kind of we were all anticipating you know the- the boot camp and the receiving
was not, I think the- the drill instructors that are in receiving are generally on their way out of
being drill instructors they, they've done their time and they're kind of been started their last leg
of their drill instructor tour. So, they're not as, you know hard-nosed as the- the drill instructors
you're gonna get for your platoon.
Interviewer: Okay alright so and then out were you waiting just to fill up the ranks of a
training unit or?
I'm not sure, I think they just have the receiving cycle, where you know I believe we also went
through shots and medical screening and stuff like that. So, I think it's just that time to process
you in and get everyone situated, and it may be… well I don't know if they're waiting on to fillfill everyone up, because I think everyone, we- I had came with was ended up being in the
platoon that I was in after the most part.
(12.55)
Interviewer: Alright okay so know when training actually starts what does that consist of?
So, there's the I mean so the Marine Corps does three phases of training. The- the first phase is
they are just kind of breaking you down. A lot of it is getting used to the- the system they've got
going on you know we do a lot of physical training, a lot of, what they call ITing, which is the I
figure out the- the act what it stands for but essentially the drill instructors would take the group
�and have them do push-ups until they scream for mercy. And there were some classes in there
also, I think a lot of it was general Marine Corps history that kind of stuff we went over. A
second phase we actually move, so that's in San Diego, and then the second phase we go up to
Camp Pendleton and there's barracks there and that's where we get into our field training portion.
So, a lot of classes on the rifle, on patrolling and maneuvering, we do the rifle range up there and
then at the end of that is when we do our- our, the crucible or the final exercise for that. Which is
the I think 72-hour movement I- I think they give us like two hours of sleep a night or something
like that, if you're lucky and you could I think a meal and a half for the three days. And then
ending with a, I want to say a 15-kilometer hike and I think at the top is where they that's where
we got our- our I think MCMAT belts. I in the past they've… I know they've changed it around
in the past that was kind of the very end you would do this, and you'd get your Eagle Globe and
Anchor. For us by that time it was you get to the in the second phase and we're in the middle you
MCMAT belt and then third phase is kind of refining, where they going over additional classes
and stuff you're- you're focusing a lot on drill. And we get to gloss our boots at that time and we
get to unbutton our, they had us button our top button on our- our blouse for most of the training
and third phase we got to unbutton it so we actually look somewhat like Marines, and then at the
very end graduation is where we get the Eagle Globe and Anchor. But yes, so that was- that was
training for the most part.
(15.47)
Interviewer: Okay, now how would you characterize the group of people you were training
along with?
You know I'm not sure, I mean we hit a lot of people, there was people from all over. I mean we
usually we come to find out that most people are from California or Texas and then there's
�people from other places also. But I mean it seemed that, it seemed to me that most people were
kind of like me and I- I looking back I would say probably you know lower, middle class kind of
backgrounds that kind of thing.
Interviewer: Were there many with military families?
Not that I'm aware of. I mean we didn't… so there wasn't a whole lot of socializing.
Interviewer: Okay.
(16.32)
So, I really didn't get to know a lot of people personally. I think we got like an hour at the end of
the day to kind of square our things away and for the most part we weren't allowed to speak
during that time and on Sundays we, I think it was a four-hour block that we were actually
allowed to kind of… get the newspaper, use the bathroom at your leisure kind of thing. And so,
and usually that’s what I did, I read the newspaper and I used the bathroom so…
Interviewer: Okay, now did you have many people drop out? Or have problems along the
way or did most of them go through okay?
We had a few dropouts, I think there was, there was one guy that ran away during the first phase
and then they actually found him during the last phase, and they brought him back. I believe he
got actually home, and his father convinced him to go turn himself in and they bring you back to
the platoon you- you were assigned to before and then they process you out from there. We had
quite a few people get recycled to us. So, if you are you know say you get to third, the third
phase or you get to the second phase they, they'll bump you back to the beginning of a phase if
you… for medical reason, like if you had a medical injury. You'll go to the medical platoon until
you get better and then they'll- they'll put you back in. And actually, we had a guy that I ended
up going to comm school with, who had gotten cellulitis and they actually found him with that
�on the last day or so of the second phase. So he was actually on his way up the Reaper which is
the end hike and then he was, they- the medic found him or the corpsman found him with a limp
and stopped him and checked it out and they're like, “oh you got to go- go back,” and he was
pleading not to go back because he actually had to do second phase all over again. So, the- the
whole exercise that he had done he had to do all over again with us. So…
(18.40)
Interviewer: Alright so now once you finish that, now what do they do with you?
From there I, so, from there I think we got like our ten days of liberty we got to go home and…
but after that we went to- I went to marine combat training. Which is if you are other than
infantry, you'll go to marine combat training just like three weeks, 27 days of combat training if
you're infantry then you go to a school of infantry SOI. And that's I believe a five-week course
that they send you through, and it's basically more in-depth on infantry skills. So, you do a lot of
bivouacking, a lot of patrolling, learning how to fire a variety of different weapon systems, that
kind of thing. A lot of more classes and instructions and stuff.
(19.35)
Interviewer: Okay alright and then and that was that at Camp Pendleton or someplace
else?
That was that camp Pendleton. That was, they had the school of infantry and marine combat
training relatively the same place out there, so we were out in the Hills Camp Pendleton doing
exercise. I think we for the most part we- we'd go out for the week and do our training out there
in the field, and then come back on the weekend for a couple days to kind of rest and refit. And
then we go out again and it kind of was the cycle for those three weeks.
Interviewer: Okay alright and then once you're done with that, now what?
�(20.13)
Yeah after yeah after that I went to Twentynine Palms for the field radio operators’ course and
I'm not quite sure how long that was I want to say that was like a six-week course that I had gone
through. And you're pretty much learning how to operate the radios, set up antennas, that kind of
thing.
Interviewer: So, where is Twentynine Palms?
Twentynine Palms is in the Mojave Desert outside of Southern California, it's in Southern
California. Outside of San Diego a ways, kind of between San Diego and Las Vegas. And pretty
much in the middle of nowhere. One of the largest training areas, we didn't go out into the
training area so much we were mostly at the schoolhouse, and they had a space designated for
mostly setting up antennas and doing some communication stuff but...
Interviewer: Okay and at this point, and so this is mid 2000s here, what… how
sophisticated was the equipment you were using? I mean did it look like stuff they used in
Vietnam or was it more better than that?
(21.20)
Yeah so, I think the… we later on I had gotten, we had gotten much more modern radio
equipment. In the field, in the radio operators course we were working with prick-104s, prick19s for the most part that’s what we were using. They had for the- the 104 they had a- an
encryption device that attached to it. I forget the name of that, but you had to load the crypto on
it and then you’d set it up. Field phones that kind of thing. So, a lot of the stuff was- was kind of
older and I'm assuming it- the… some of the stuff was kind of at least late Vietnam era
equipment. The schoolhouse didn't get the best equipment I think either. But yeah it wasn't
nothing modern, later on and we had certain we started getting much better equipment where the-
�there wasn't- there wasn't an external and an encryption thing it was all built in, or it could cover
a lot of different frequency wavelengths. The 104 was a high frequency radio and the 19 was a
VHF radio and then we also had the prick 113 which is UHF so if you wanted to cover different
spectrums depending on what your- how you’re trying to communicate you had to use a different
radio for each one.
(22.52)
Interviewer: Okay alright and then what kinds of sort of applications were you learning?
What could you, were you being taught to do particular kinds of things whether it's
communicating with aircraft or artillery or other things?
I think we covered radio messages because there's some standard messages field artillery is one
of those things where they definitely have a standard message system that they used. And I think
we- we touched on that, most of it was just learning how to put in the frequencies for the radios,
set up the radios for communications. So, and we learned how to if you wanted to talk with the
aircraft you wanted to use the UHF radio. If you're going to be talking with, in close proximity
you use the VHF radio, usually for ground troops and stuff like that, for movement. And then if
you want to talk for a long range then use the HF radios. And that was, that was kind of the
extent of it. You know they- they, there was actually quite a bit on kind of numbers, and you
know the- the frequency ranges and kind of the characteristics and capabilities of the equipment.
Which ended up not being that important, but that's what they taught anyways.
(24.08)
Interviewer: Okay alright and then having finished this do you now get assigned to a unit?
Or do you have more training?
�Yeah, no I was- I ended up graduating first in the class. So, I had gotten a meritorious promotion
to Lance Corporal and then I also got to pick, first pick a duty station. So, they get the list of all
the duty stations and I get to take a pick, and I ended up picking a unit in Japan. And it's kind of
all they gave us; was you go to Japan, you go to the east coast, you go to the west coast. At the
last minute they actually gave me the option to go to Cuba, to Guantanamo Bay for a year and I
passed it up. I had wanted to go to Japan, I thought that'd be a good time there.
Interviewer: Alright and so that is where you went then?
Yes.
Interviewer: Okay and now what unit were you assigned to there?
And when I got there, I was assigned to 1st Stinger Battery or 1st LAD (low altitude air defense) I
think they're interchangeable for the most part. But so, it's a part of the Air Wing and they focus
on intercepting low-flying aircraft and to shoot them down essentially. And I think I went there
with five other guys that were in the radio operators’ course with me. We all got to the unit at the
same time.
Interviewer: Okay now where was the unit based?
That was on Futenma on Okinawa.
Interviewer: Okay, alright and now can you kind of describe what that base was like and
what you were doing?
(25.37)
Yeah so, the so Futenma was the airbase so mostly air wings. So, on Japan they had Camp Butler
I think is the system of camps that they have.
Interviewer: Yeah.
�On Okinawa and so down the road was Foster, and then they had Schwab up north, and they had
a bunch of other places and it kind of depended on what you did. So, the Air Wing was on
Futenma and they had the air- airstrip there. Foster was the logistics so if you were you know the
service support guy you were on Foster and if you were infantry you were probably get with
Schwab somewhere. But for- for us it kind of was a we ended up picking up a day-to-day routine
with training and stuff. We, our barracks was on one side of the flight line and they had a bus
system that would- that would kind of shuttle back and forth. We’d hop on the bus and we'd have
to be back after PT in the morning our physical training in the morning. We generally every day
do 3 to 5 mile run or something like that. And so, I was attached to the headquarters. It was a
company sized unit, and I was attached to headquarters in the in the comm shop and they had
two platoons of gunners. And I believe, you know 30 to 40 people are gunners in each of the
platoons and they would attach radio operators to the platoons as needed. So, usually there'd be
one or two radio operators assigned to a platoon and if they were gonna go out to do some sort of
training or something like that they might attach one or two more. And I mean our day to day
was you know maintenance on the radios, stocking the platoons with the radios that they needed,
and things like that if they were doing training exercise. And then we do our own training and
stuff when we were able, so, setting up antennas and…
Interviewer: And would you sometimes go out with the platoons on their exercises or did
you just stay in the headquarters?
(27.41)
Well we would go out usually for the most part, well so, the platoons went out and did some
independent training, for the most part it was the- the company would do company-wide training.
On Okinawa it's difficult to get, there's-there’s limited training areas and stuff so when they do
�get a training area it's usually the whole company going, and it’d usually be for about a week or
so that we'd go out. And that would you know maybe once every couple months we'd go out and
do something like that. And you know we'd set up the headquarters radio command posts with
radios and stuff we'd sit there and monitor radios and we set up a rotating watch. And because
we had the field phones, we had all of, so all of our radios were remote access, so we'd have our
wire running to our remote sets and then our antennas and the actual radio systems. You know
sometimes a half-mile away and we'd have field phones running so we can communicate
between the two. And then we'd be handling traffic from the gunners and they’d mostly do
practice with spotting aircraft so someone would call in saying, “hey there's an aircraft flying this
direction.” And they'd have to identify it and they'd call and report it and then engage or
disengage or something like that.
Interviewer: Okay now do you have a sense of what all of this was directed toward? Was
there a likely enemy in mind? Is it the Chinese there or not really sure?
(29:25)
That was kind of a, one of the points that had kind of been in discussion especially with a lot of
the officers and stuff was kind of the relevance of the Stingers. Mostly because in most theaters
the US has air superiority so it's not like anyone's gonna be flying aircraft through. And then
there was a number of other you know missile systems that could be employed to that effect also.
So, and I believe they actually, they may have disbanded them altogether by now. I know there
had been talk about that, you know, and I think it kind of goes back to kind of the you know the
Cold War era. You know Russian enemy or Chinese enemy kind of the big powers and stuff
were the US may not necessarily have air superiority.
�Interviewer: Yeah so, it's really a traditional weapon system in some ways, or at least one
geared toward a conventional war.
Yes.
Interviewer: Yeah okay now how long did you wind up staying in Okinawa?
I was there for two years and that's generally how long a- a tour is gonna be in Okinawa if you
are, if you, if you're married and are doing an unaccompanied tour than they do one-year tours. I
did two years and while I was there, I think towards my last, in my second year I was ended up
getting attached to the 31st MEU. So, I was assigned to one of the platoons and that platoon was,
or there was a detachment made from one of the platoons and then I was attached to the…
(31.12)
Interviewer: Okay you said 31st MEU, what does MEU mean?
Marine Expeditionary Unit so essentially, it's a helo deck carrier and then they have two other
ships that go along with it and we pretty much toward the South Pacific, doing training. I think
the, one of the- the notable things is, we were actually pulling into I believe Subic Bay in the
Philippines; I think it's in the Philippines and we were supposed actually it was just I think it's
supposed to be a Liberty port they were going in for and as we were pulling up we were inches
away and we started backing up, there was a mudslide in Leyte. So, we moved went over there
and we helped with relief efforts there and that was I think the- the most notable event that we
participated in with that MEU.
Interviewer: Okay and then when that was going on, the relief effort was going on, what
were you doing?
So what we ended up doing we were in charge of the landing zone, so they had the- the mud site
area where they were digging for survivors and I believe there's a school that had, the whole
�village I think was- was engulfed with mud and just outside of that area they had set up a landing
zone in one of the- the villages right next to it and we were landing in helicopters for you know
food and water and that kind of stuff. Actually there was a… one of the locals there was a retired
navy, and owned a number of houses in the Philippines and he opened up his house which was
just across from the landing zone that we had and allowed us to use that as the headquarters for
the- the humanitarian mission. But we would be out in the field you know monitoring the radios,
landing and helicopters I think we had space depending on the aircraft a 53's we can land one at a
time. 46s we could land two at a time, that's kind of the space we had. Yeah that's what I was
doing for the most part.
(33.39)
Interviewer: Okay now when you were on Okinawa did you get off the base very much and
go anywhere?
We did, at that time we could get off the base, right now I think they're pretty much not allowed
to go anywhere in Okinawa. They had a Liberty card system at the time so when you get there
you have a red card which means you have to be back by midnight and normally you have that
for a year unless you're a corporal then you could be… there's all kinds of rules and it depends on
the unit you're with, kind of what they allow. But I eventually got my gold card then I could go
out 24 hours and that kind of remained, there was some, sometimes someone would do
something on one of the bases and then they would pull everyone’s liberty cards so we had to
stay and that usually lasted about a week or so and then they'd reissue cards. But yeah, I got to go
out quite a bit mostly the areas outside of Futenma and Foster. I think my second year one of my
buddies had gotten a car and so we were able to kind of travel around the island a bit more.
�Interviewer: Okay now at times there's been a lot of tension between American military
personnel at Okinawa and the locals. I mean were you aware of that at the time or was any
of that going on?
(34.59)
I mean so areas right- right outside of base were- were very accommodating for the military
mostly because they were businesses and they relied on military.
Interviewer: Right.
And you know I don't, I didn't feel any- any tension or anything with the locals. Now there were
places you go, and they said no Americans can go no gaijin, but I didn't feel that was a tension
thing I- I felt that was more kind on their want to preserve kind of what they got going on. And it
wasn't that there was, they didn't want us there they just didn't want us at their place of business
or whatever. But you know most people I you know spoke to especially the younger people
going on the bars and stuff we talked to the locals and you know I never felt that there was any
kind of animosity or anything.
(36.08)
Interviewer: I guess a lot of it may have been at times of all the problems where the
American personnel does sort of misbehaving or getting drunk or other things like that.
Rather than things being really directed to happen by the locals, so if you were nice, they
were nice and.
Yeah there were and at times were protests right outside of the base and something like that and
that would usually be you know you know you know be for a day or two that would go on. You
know, and I’d always… so I had heard that this was that a lot of the push to get the- the basis out
was not necessarily from Okinawa itself but from mainland Japan.
�Interviewer: Yeah.
Not wanting the Americans there but the Okinawans actually preferred it, and I think it was a lot
had to do with the economy and stuff because there was the US personnel brought all this money
in and you know imagine, I can imagine them closing down all the bases there and then pretty
much all the businesses right outside of the bases are gonna be have to shut down because they
won't have any business.
Interviewer: Alright okay so once you get through that that first or two years assignment,
what do you get next?
From there I get assigned to two- five and so by that time I had actually contacted my- my
monitor which assigns where people go and I told him, well I want to go infantry because… and
I want to go to the, a unit that's going to be deploying soon. You know I had hoped that I would
have, would deploy and I got the 31st MEU and that’s somewhat of a deployment but you know
Iraq was going on, there were people in Iraq. And that's kind of where I wanted to go so, I told
the monitor I want to go to the next you know that's going to be deploying. So, I end up getting
assigned to two- five which is in Camp Pendleton, San Mateo which is north of Camp Pendleton
and I get there and you know they're pretty much on a deployment cycle; where they will deploy
for seven months and they have I think about twelve months that they're back to rest, refit, and
then get ready for another deployment it's kind of the cycle that they're on. And by that time, we
were the- the build-up was just starting. So, actually we ended up deploying in 2000… the
beginning of 2007 and that's I think we were kind of the, one of the initial units for deployment
when they're trying to expand the- the areas. We ended up deploying to Ramadi and we took
over an- an army units AO and then we actually got a smaller portion of what they were covering
�and then other units’ kind of filled in the gaps. So, they were putting more units in that one
space.
(38.52)
Interviewer: Alright is this part of what got referred to as “the surge” where the number of
American ground troops was getting expanded?
Yes.
Interviewer: Alright now how do they, so I guess what sort of preparation do you get for
going over to Iraq? Well this units gearing up to go, what's happening?
So for us it was a lot of, we do so they- they for the battalion they do training phases and it's, I
mean it was like that for the MEU too because we did training buildups for that where you work
on individual training, and then you do unit level, and then you do company, and then battalion
level, and then before you go on the MEU then you do a MEU exercise where it's everyone
working together to train and qualify for the MEU. For- for two- five that was the same kind of
thing, so individual training making sure you have your rifle qual, your- your PFTs up, and
you're your individual, then you focusing on your- your squad or your company, training
exercises and then eventually you'll start doing battalion exercises. And then we do culminating
events in Twentynine Palms so we're going to go back to Twentynine Palms, yay. And do
Mojave Viper which is a month-long exercise in the desert where they have mock villages and
stuff like that and in that they also do kind of the, that kind of training where you start with
platoon levels then company and then battalion level exercises within that month.
(40.23)
Interviewer: Okay and was this geared specifically for Iraq at that point?
�It was yeah it was- it was, they had native speakers there in mock villages doing patrols and they,
by that time they had I believe they were doing the like simulated explosions and stuff and they'd
have makeup teams out there you know doing injuries stuff like that. So, they I mean they at that
time they were trying to make it is it's realistic as possible to prepare specifically for Iraq.
Interviewer: Okay now had your unit deployed to Iraq already? Had they been there?
Yes, so the unit a lot of the guys had already been to Iraq in 2006 they were there so they were
on the previous cycle and 2006 was a really intense time for Iraq. Especially in Ramadi where a
lot of the heaviest fighting was. So, there was a number of guys that had had combat experience
and kind of had gone through that day-to-day routine and yeah. So, there was there was, there
was a lot of veterans, you know in the units that we are with. So, it was it was pretty veteran
heavy going in.
(41.49)
Interviewer: Alright now how do they get you out to Iraq?
We, so we think it was I want to say Anderson, which is in- just is it north of Pendleton we
would bus up there and then we take a commercial flight over to - I think Bangor, Maine and
then we hop on other flights into Kuwait, and then from Kuwait we bus to a receiving base there,
and that's where we get our ammo and a lot of other stuff. I think they give us like three days for
acclimatization for the weather and stuff and then from there we ended up we end up I think c-17
it was either c-17 or c-130 into Iraq. And I'm not sure which base we flew in, but we flew into
one of those bases and then from there we take helicopters into whatever subbase were going
into and stuff like that.
Interviewer: Okay so then where do you wind up getting sent to?
(42.57)
�So we get, we get sent to Ramadi and we're pretty much a sign to the- the- the city itself so when
I got there, so when I when I got there I was assigned to Headquarters Company I was, or
headquarter… yeah headquarters company I was with the comm shop and weapons company
each of the companies had radio operators assigned to them, weapons company being having the
most radio systems because they have our mobile, they would have more radio operators, well
one of the radio operators broke their arm the weekend before they deployed. So, they were
down a man and I actually talked to my lieutenant I said I was- I was a corporal at the time and I
talked to my lieutenant I said, “hey if there's a slot for one of the companies that's where I want
to go.” And when we got into country, he- he asked me if I still wanted to go and I said yes so, I
end up getting assigned to weapons company where I was the company radio operator. There
was someone that was the company operator before me, but I took over his spot because I was
senior.
Interviewer: Right.
So we get there and we're in charge of southern Ramadi so we got the it’s actually considered, I
think it's in one of the poor sections of Ramadi, the south west and then the there's farmland to
the south that’s kind of, you have city and the farmland is essentially how it is split up.
(44.31)
Interviewer: Alright okay now weapons company what kind of weapon systems do they
have?
So, weapons company: heavy machine guns so 50-cals, mark 19's which I actually don't think
they even took out because using grenade, machine grenade launchers is probably not the- the
thing they wanted to do.
Interviewer: Right.
�So, 50-cals for the most part. In a lot of ways, so they were in charge of the area operations, but
they also ran a logistics through, to other companies and stuff because they had all the- the
vehicles. Now when we got to Ramadi, we took over for an army unit, and they did, they didn't
do any dismounted patrols, all their patrols were mounted patrol.
Interviewer: Okay.
And this was, so this was right before they… you know I guess the- the sheiks in the area
decided, “hey we should stop fighting the Americans and kind of start cooperating.” And I think
that happened about a month maybe a month and a half into our deployment is when that
transition took place, because it actually when we got there- there was still quite a bit of fighting
going on and then about a month and a half into it everything just kind of stopped. And so, we
were- but when we got in, we were said we're gonna do dismounted patrols that way we can
engage with the- the populace and stuff and have a stronger presence in the city. And we ended
up, we also did, so the army units also had one main base and that was pretty much it and then
we broke down all of our companies into platoons and had them occupy buildings. So, we
occupied a CPO… Iron, I believe it was called, and in the southwest it was like a compound,
building compound that we, the headquarters controlled and then down the road there was two
other outposts that we also controlled for weapons company alone and then each of the other
companies also did that, so there would be I think Falcon was another cop that they had and they
broke out into other outposts or platoon would- would find an abandoned building and they
pretty much set that up as a compound. So, they're more dispersed throughout the city, covering
larger areas.
(46.55)
�Interviewer: Yeah and it was sort of part of the logic of the sort of strategy was to get into
the community, make connections, show your presence and then stay there and not just
stay hidden here vehicles or in the big bases.
Yeah no we were doing daily patrols out in the community and stuff, some days we would
actually get, we do…. So, we do clearing operations and if we did clearing operations so we'd go
through and pretty much search you know entire sections of the city that we- we covered and if
we were doing that we'd also coincide that with food and water supplies. So, we'd bring in food
and water supplies so wherever handing out food and water to kind of get people to come out of
their houses so we can go in there and search the houses, essentially is what we're doing and you
know bags of flour and rice that kind of stuff we would be handing out. We’d coordinate with
the community leaders and let them know what was going on so they can organize how they
wanted to distribute the food and stuff because- so there wasn't like a mad rick rack for food.
And a lot of it was like large bags of flour or stuff like that and they would know best how-to
kind of distribute that to their village and stuff.
(48.08)
Interviewer: Alright now you mentioned at the beginning there was still a lot of fighting
going on, I mean was that, were your people getting directly engaged and was there, were
there casualties or?
We do not have any casualties, I'm trying to, I think. I think we had I think we might have had
one guy in the battalion that stepped out an IED and lost a leg, but I think that we had no, no
deaths with the time we were there. You know with fighting and stuff there'd be fire fights you
know it was kind of difficult, because and that was one of the things that was most difficult I
think when there was fighting going on, is that a lot of the fighting was from it they'd shoot from
�a distance and they'd move so it was hard to identify where firing was coming from. And when
we were going in it was all about hearts and minds and so it was, if you can't identify the target
then don't shoot in that direction and that's kind of what we, had been harped on us is you have to
identify what you're shooting at before you start shooting. So, if you get shots and you look in
that direction and you're looking where you think you hear it coming from you start trying to find
it by that time they're- they're moving to another location and shooting from there, so you're kind
of trying to figure out where this firing is coming from. So that was one of the difficult things, a
lot of times you’d get pop shots going on a patrol you'd get a couple of shots and then you'd hear
nothing at all after that and- and that was for the most part. And even after the, a lot of the
fighting stopped and you know- you know once a week or so you'd get shots if you're doing a
mounted convoy, you might get shots that you're the convoy from a distance and again you
couldn't identify where a single shot’s coming from. And you just kind of look around and throw
your hands up and say, oh I guess we’re just gonna keep moving.
Interviewer: Okay what impression did you have of the Iraqi civilians in the area to the
extent that you saw them?
(50.24)
The area we were at, a lot of poor people. You know, the-the further in the city there were a lot
of nice buildings and stuff. The buildings we were at kind of bare bones you know single room
kind of shack looking buildings. They’re all concrete buildings out in the- the- the rural area
which it was kind of like here’s a city, here's a rural area there was some more makeshift stuff
going on. But yeah mostly poor, so after we had started building up out there, we also started,
that's when they started implementing the Iraqi army, Iraqi police and we had our “mitt and pit”
teams for police training and the army training. And pretty much what the deal was- was stop
�fighting the Americans and joined the police or the army and so it seemed that it was, it was a
money thing. I had talked we had… so we had a MiTT team which is the military advising and
training team, and we had a section on our, on cop iron that was for the Iraqi army where they
would come in and do training and stuff. And I talked to some of those Iraqis and you know, we
asked them, “so oh you know what you’d do…” They just joined the army, “but what’d you do
before then?” It's like oh “we were placing IEDs on the road, you know a week ago.” And you
know it just seemed that the- the thing was it wasn't about you know, they had some sort of
hatred for anyone it was mostly a money thing, they would get paid to go put in IEDs. Now
they're getting paid to be in the Iraqi army. So, and it was another thing with the Iraqi army and
Iraqi police the so the Iraqi police were generally local from the area, and the Iraqi army was
generally from, could be from all locations. All over Iraq and they- they relocate them and stuff.
So, you'd get that Shia/ Sunni tension between, because a lot of times the- the local population
would be one and they'd be importing via the Iraqi army, the opposite group. So, there were
tensions between and I'm pretty sure there were shots fired between Iraqi army and Iraqi police
on several occasions, that kind of thing going on. So, there's I mean when you have someone that
you talked to and they're saying that they used to plant IEDs and you know there's a, and by that
time I think there was already reports on friendly fire between Iraqi army, Iraqi police, and US
forces so it's you know- you know you'd never kind of never let your guard down even when
you're supposed to be on the same side kind of thing.
(53.31)
Interviewer: Now did you also have interpreters assigned to you that were…?
We had, so the, there were interpreters with the unit and the- the MiTT team, MiTT teams they
obviously had interpreters. I speak, I spoke every once in a while, to interpreters but for the most
�part I didn't do a whole lot of engaging with the local population for the most part. We do, I was
the company RO(radio operator) so if our company commander went on and needed to do a
meeting with local sheikh or whatever we'd have an interpreter go with us and he would wander
off, that's how our company commander was, he would wander off onto a patrol, and he’d just
grabbed his stuff and say, “hey we're gonna, we need to do this meeting.” And he just start
walking off and while we're like prepping for an actual patrol, because we're the military he
would just kind of walk to wherever he's going and we would have to patrol around him because
he would be walking and he'd be like, let's go this way now, and kind of divert where ever he
wanted to go.
(54:45)
Interviewer: Okay how effective a commander was he?
I mean I think- I think he was I think he was fine you know, maybe a little arrogant in that way.
You know he, we would all be suited up and stuff flak and Kevlar and he would be walk out and
he'd take his Kevlar of kind of wander around and, checking you know things out, and you
know-- you know he seemed to be a great guy. I talked to him on several occasions he wasn't a
you know a hard-ass or anything, but the same, at the same time it's kind of one of those things
were you know I've always been kind of ‘lead by example’ kind of thing. It's like you want you
guys to wear their flak and Kevlars, you should probably wear your flak and Kevlar when you're
going out, and you know, luckily nothing happened. I mean at the time IEDs were out mostly
targeting vehicles. You know it wasn't to the point where we were using you know metal
detectors or anything like that, so it wasn't that serious in threat but you know those things had
happened before and it was kind of one of those things like you know, you are the commander
you should probably be in line you know with the patrol and stuff like that you know. Or at least
�let the point man know you're gonna be diverting because our point man would be going forward
and he'd have to keep turning around to make sure that he was going the direction the
commander was going which was just a pain because we’d have to yell out, “hey point man
we're turning left now.”
Interviewer: Alright now what- what kind of living conditions did you have there?
(56.30)
So, we were occupying these pretty much blown up buildings, there was a lot of rubble, damage,
they had rigged up lighting, electrical systems, and they were run on generators. The- the
building I occupied, they had brought in you know beds, little twin sized beds that we slept on, if
I got sleep. I was actually doing a lot, quite a lot because I was, I was the radio operator, so I
automatically made me an electrician also, so anything that was a machine I had to do some
work on. So, frequently the lighting system would get jacked up or someone want to put in new
lighting so I'd have to grab lights and wire and try to rig something and I'm not the best with
electricity I'm kind of afraid of electricity because it can hurt you and I got shocked a number
times doing that. Yeah, we… and I it was me… we had a data guy with us because we were
running Sipper and Nipper net which is the pretty much the Internet service out there. We had a
satellite dish that we'd point and get, so we were able to get internet out there on a small scale
anyways for- for operations stuff. So, we had a guy running that in case it went down and then
we had people kind of come and go depending on what they did, we kind of were a transient
space that we occupied. We had a head guy which is a human intelligence guy came out and was
doing operations out of there for a while, we had a wrecker guy that stayed with us for quite a
while, there, we had started getting more IED strikes on vehicles so the- the location we were at
was best to have him operate out of and because we had actually, we were running all the
�convoys so any logistics convoys we'd run. So, they had the wrecker there because he could
jump, they can organize the logistics convoy and he could jump on there.
Interviewer: Okay and how well-fortified was the compound?
(58.51)
It was pretty, I mean the compound was walled and then they you know as we were there, as we
were building on what was there before us. So, there was already cement structures in some
locations as we were there longer, they were building even more so we get more concrete
barriers. We'd put those up these giant T barriers we had guard posts at different locations and
they would you know the- the battalion XO would come by and say, “let's raise this roof,” and
we'd have to take the roof off and throw more sandbags on it and make it taller you know so, it
was pretty well fortified. While we were- while we were in the compound flak and Kevlar we
can walk around pretty much at ease, for the most part. I did antennas and stuff so all my
antennas were on the roof and if anything happened I'd go up there and I'm supposed to have a
flak and Kevlar but most times I want because climbing a building and maneuvering antennas
with the flak and Kevlar is really a pain butt. I think we I've gotten pop shots up there are several
times I don't think anything landed close anyways, but I mean it was- it was nerve-racking
because it was on the top of one of the biggest buildings in the in the area, so standing out thereyou know maneuvering this antenna which stretches another 30 feet in the air you know, you
kind of saying please shoot me.
Interviewer: Right, okay now did they have air conditioning on a base like this anywhere
or was it all just... open?
(1:00.00)
�I- I think they did have a see unit set where they were getting- getting in. I know- I know the
second tour in Iraq they had AC units I don't… I think we had to the AC unit I think they had the
AC units by then.
Interviewer: And where those just be in places where you had to have computer equipment
or were they sleeping areas or…?
The so the- the COC the command center they would have AC there. I don't recall if our room
had AC, I think it did and the ACs would go a lot of times, so they have to be replaced often and
because the dust, you know they just mal function, they break down. So, you'd have it for a
while, bus and you’d have to try to figure something out. So, I think we ended up at least
halfway through I think we ended up getting air conditioning units, I mean you know I didn't
spend a whole lot of time in the- the living space. I mean a lot of people talk about downtime and
stuff like that but I tried, I stayed busy I was up so I was the- the radio operator for the company,
weapons company which had the ability to maneuver around the whole AO pretty easily because
we had vehicles. So, I was running all, running on all the logistics convoys and those would
occur every day, every other day. I do patrols with the, any company commander, any patrol’s
company commander went on I was a part of that but I also was, did any wrecker runs any time
there was an ID strike and they need to send a wrecker out there to recover the vehicle. I'd run
those and then any time communications that they needed, someone needed support at one of the
other out post I'd do a, have to jump, I'd pretty much go into the COC, “who's on patrol right
now. Hey, call them tell them to swing by here and take me over to this other location.” And fix
that and that was for our company but also for the other companies because I was senior than
some of the other radio operators and in some of the other companies. I frequently get requests to
�go over to other companies and help them with their communications. So, I would be doing that
also, so I pretty much, if something was going on, I was trying to be involved in it.
Interviewer: Okay so how much sleep did you get?
(1:02.50)
I didn't get a lot of sleep and then I mean on top of that when I did get sleep there was a field
phone from the COC to my room in case communications went down in the COC because I'd
also have to maintain those communications. I mean luckily I didn't have to stand radio watch in
the COC they had the- the platoons did rotating shifts they would have a platoon that was
patrolling, a platoon that was in a- in kind of work and party mode, and then you have another
that was kind of on a, you know relaxed schedule. And they'd rotate through those so that they
had those maintained but if it went down and a lot of times they'd call and say, “hey, the radios
not working.” Well it’s like, “did you change the batteries?” And they'd say “no.” It's like, “well
change the batteries and then gave me a call.” And they change the batteries and they’d call and
say, “everything's fine.” But I mean I’d get calls like that; you know all hours of the night also
so.
(1:03.53)
Interviewer: Okay the you mentioned the- the dust being a problem for the air
conditioners, did it cause problems for other stuff too?
Yeah, I mean radios is one of those things, clean connections and stuff like that. You know
they'd be one of those things where I get- I get calls about radios and stuff and it's like well you
need to clean them. You need to take them out and clean the port's we'd go through handsets
quite a, quite often just because the dust and everything. Weapons would have to be cleaned on a
regular basis, the m16. We were… so we had the M16A2 and they are not the best when- when
�dirty. They have to be regularly cleaned, so that was another thing with the dust. You know and
our base they had, they like a receive, a staging area for vehicles and they had what they call
moon dust, was the very fine powder and it would be about a you know a half foot to a foot deep
and you'd be trudging through this- this thin powder. That stuff gets everywhere and if the wind
picks up and it blows it everywhere, and then you know in the off chance that it rains and then
you're walking around and you know foot of mud and you know caking your boots and stuff like
that.
(1:05.17)
Interviewer: Okay now over the course, so how long was that tour?
That was seven months.
Interviewer: Okay now over the course of that time did you feel like you had made
progress or were accomplishing the mission? Or did it seem like you're just going in
circles?
It sort of seemed… it's hard to tell because you know, they by the time we left we had the- the
Iraqi police and Iraqi army in the area. Where pretty much up and running I mean there are
problems here and there definitely. We had also started working on public works projects and
stuff like that, so employing people to clean the streets that kind of thing. So, I mean there was a
progress in that regard, but at the same time it's hard to tell from where I was at anyways. You
know by the time I was just in my routine.
Interviewer: Right.
You know trying to get things done.
Interviewer: So, you're just there and doing your job and not worrying too much about
bigger picture.
�Yeah at that-that time in my career big picture was not on my- my radar for the most part. It was
just yeah; I got a job to do and this is what I'm doing.
Interviewer: Alright so now we get kind of late in 2007 that tour comes to an end. Are there
any other particular events or incidents or things from that first tour that kind of stand out
for you that you haven't talked about yet?
(1:06.43)
No, well so there was, you know I don't know the Battle of Donkey Island which was this island
in the south of the city, and they had gotten reports, intelligence reports like 50 enemies
occupying this- this reed covered island. Which it wasn't a big island, I don't even know if 50
people could possibly occupy the place, but they had worked on clearing the brush from there
and then they did like a company push through the area. And I believe it was on like the fourth of
July or the third of July, it was right around the fourth of July and it was I think like a hundred
and forty degrees out and they decided to do this in the middle of the day. And we do this push
across this- this you know farmland and they have vehicles kind of behind following up and
we’re like on-line, you know trying to push out this area. No engagement at all and I think we
lost more people, not we didn't lose them, but more people went down from heat exhaustion that
day than anything. I mean but I mean it was they had, we had air on station so like that. We had
you know a lot of support on this mission and I don't think anything really came of it for the
most part.
(1:08.15)
Interviewer: So, some somebody somewhere was pulling your leg.
Yeah, I guess I was like what is going on here?
�Interviewer: That but okay alright so now late 2007 now you rotate back home and at this
point do you have about one year left on your original enlistment? Or had you already
decided to stay in or?
Yeah so when I was in- in Iraq I talked my, my I'm trying to think… I ended up talking to my
monitor at some point in time when I was in Iraq and I might have been, I might have had
emailed him or was talking to a third party or something but I had been communicating to him
because my enlistment was coming up. And actually, they were doing reenlistment bonuses at
that point, so I was definitely going to reenlist because I think I got like $30,000 for reenlistment
and again I told them you know, I want to get back here as soon as possible. This is while I was
in Iraq still and so I want to go to the next unit that’s pulling. Actually, one of the ANGLICO, I
think it was first ANGLICO was actually doing operations in our area for a week or so and they
were actually staying in our building. And I had been talking to them so I talked to the monitor
and I said, “hey well you know what's up with these guys, can I go here?” He said, “yeah it's like
well which one you want to go to?” Because they have first, second, third and fourth ANGLICO,
I think and they’re on different locations and he said that first ANGLICO was going to be
deploying again soon. They’re pretty much on a, an on/ off deployment cycle so they go for
seven months, they're back for seven months, they go, and they kind of going back and forth that
way. It's like, well that's where I want to go and so I had gotten orders there while I was in Iraq
to go there. So, I got back and was with two five for maybe a couple more months and then I
move it first ANGLICO was actually just down the road so.
Interviewer: Okay so back at Camp Pendleton?
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay now explain what ANGLICO is.
�(1:10.32)
So, Air Naval Gunfire Liaison Company.
Interviewer: Okay.
They do fire support so surface fires and air support mostly there, I think 50% of the unit is
officers and we get pilots, no blows which are naval gun officers in some sort, and artillery
officers, and infantry officers, and they run teams and they do small teams that they're primarily
working with foreign militaries or units that do not have- that need the, our capabilities or the US
capabilities that don't have them. Or like Special Forces units, US Special Forces units that need
a specialized air support. They need someone dedicated for air sport because that's all we do so
and we work and they have small teams so generally four or five main teams and they have two
or three of them assigned to a section, and then like two or three of those assigned to a platoon,
and then three- two of those in the company, in the headquarters company. And I got there I was
assigned to a, a fire team or a fire power control team which was a, we had five-man teams by
then. So, it's two forward observers or two scout observers, radio operator and a- an officer of
some sort. So, four people actually and our officer was a FAT pilot. Yeah and we do we help
provide fire support so that's all we kind of train on.
Interviewer: Now then, when you join in with Camp Pendleton are you kind of gearing up
for the next rotation over to Iraq?
(1:12.39)
Yeah when I get there, they're already kind of in the stages of a preparation. They had already,
they already knew where they were going to be going, or that they're gonna be going because
they get all the units get detached to other units throughout the area. So, there- there's no like
central like everyone's in this area. They're all over, so Iraq and Iraq it’d be all over Iraq
�disbursed and they don't run a, a traditional workup or training plan for Iraq like the infantry
battalions do with Mojave Viper and kind of that kind of thing. They do whatever training with
who they're going to be working with. I'm trying to think, I'm not sure what we did for… oh
yeah, I'm not sure what we did for our workup, we might have gone to Twentynine Palms for, for
some sort of exercise, but I don't remember going with them. We had to have done something
though.
Interviewer: Alright about how long did you have between deployments?
(1:14.02)
I think it was a year no- no so October I got back and then I went back in March, so October,
November, December, January, February, March; five months.
Interviewer: Okay yes so not- not too long a time necessarily to just hang around and have
that much of a routine necessarily well you’re there. Alright, now why had you been eager
to go back as soon as possible?
There was, I mean that's why I joined for the most part, so that's why I wanted to do, and you
know with, with a deployment there's, it kind of simplifies things. I mean when you're back you
got bills and you've got family and friends you're dealing with. In Iraq or even Afghanistan, you
just worry about the mission and you know it, things are a little clearer in that way. And you're
just busy and you know I enjoy doing that, I was doing my job. I was doing what I had, I signed
up to do.
Interviewer: So okay now were you married at this time or?
No- no.
(1:15.21)
Interviewer: Okay you probably ought to know what year you got married.
�Well I had, a I'm actually, I was married twice so.
Interviewer: Okay, alright.
There was another marriage in there.
Interviewer: Alright and so you've got the better name of you but still there was there, was
enough life intervening when your back home that you notice that kind of thing okay.
Alright so now going back over then, second time so now what year is that 08 you're going
over?
Yes.
Interviewer: Okay is it the same process as before or do you do something different?
No, the in process is pretty much the same. We ended up flying into Kuwait, we stayed there, we
get our ammunition, and stuff like that. You know what was the big difference was, I was we
were instead of being in Ramadi we were in northern, northwest Iraq so I ended up… our
firepower control team was assigned to an Iraqi army unit. I think a battalion north of Al Qayn,
which was I think was like 40 kilometers north and it was just kind of in the middle of nowhere
they built this kind of base out there and our, their mission was to control traffic or stop AlQaeda from moving from, between Syria and Iraq. So, we were pretty much doing patrols in
open desert you know nothing for miles and miles. So, we were doing all, everything was
mounted we would drive out and a lot of times we would do two or three day patrols out into the
desert. And we'd be attached with, so we, there was a MiTT-team which was helping advise andand train the Iraqi army and then there's us and we were attached to the Iraqi army to provide air
support for the most part because there's no artillery out there or anything. It was all air support,
so we’d get air on station at different times and we'd scope out places of possible interest before
we went out into the area.
�Interviewer: Okay and were you finding much?
(1:14.43)
No, no we would get tips on caches and things like that, so we found a number of weapons
caches. A lot of them were really old weapons caches so I'm assuming that the people who told
us about him probably put them there in the first place a long time ago and that's why they knew
they were there. You know that would- that would happen frequently where we'd get tips on
IEDs because that was another thing because we'd have to go down maybe once a month we'd go
down to Al Qayn, which was, you know a 40 kilometer movement to get down there to the city
so we can resupply, getting you know repairs on vehicles, and that kind of thing. And you know
we'd have people that would, Iraqis that would point out IEDs and stuff and a lot of times I'd be
like well how the heck did you know that that was there? It's like there was no indicator you
know and it's not on the beaten path, it's not like you're wandering behind you- you know sitting
in front of you. It's like off to the side somewhere that you wouldn’t know unless you actually
place it there. So I mean we'd come into that quite a bit, you know we're pretty sure a lot of
people that are spotting these actually had placed in there at some point or another and just knew
that they were there, and I think the same was for the weapons caches for the most part. So yeah,
we'd and we'd stop we'd drive right through the desert. We'd stop and talk to the locals a lot of
bad winds out there so you know people would pile up their tents. There was camel trade so they
had caravans that would go back and forth and we'd stop and there'd be hundreds of camels and
moving by, and so we'd wait and we'd stop and talk to the whoever was running the caravan, you
know and they'd always asked, “do you want to ride the camel?” it's like “no we don’t want to
ride the camel but thank you.” But yeah not a whole lot going on out there.
(1:19.45)
�Interviewer: And what impression did you have of the Iraqi army that you were with?
You know so the, some of the officers that had been around a while, some of the senior guys,
they had been around for a long time and they were, you know most likely were fighting when
they were, you know fighting Iran. So, they had been around a while. A lot of the new guys you
know, not a whole, not a lot of discipline that's for sure. And that was one of the things, by that
time they had- you had some guys you know had cell phones and they'd be sitting there and we
were doing some training or something out and people would be on cell phones and stuff and it's
like you know…
Interviewer: It’s like teaching a class.
(1:20.34)
Yeah but, you know and some… but some of the senior guys and stuff they- they would be
hesitant to take advice and stuff like that, it's like you know, they had been around the block and
they don't need our advice kind of thing. You know some would be more accepting, but yeah, I
mean I, on the lower levels I don't think a lot of them took it seriously. I think it was a paycheck
for them and they were coming to get paid for the most part and they were trying to stay out of
harm's way as much as possible.
Interviewer: But at this stage there wasn't a whole lot of harm necessarily.
Yeah no not- not where we, where we were at.
Interviewer: Okay now aside from the Bedouins do you see any civilians or only in the
town or?
No not really, there was a few towns that we would go through mostly on our way to Al Qayn
because it was a larger town, I think the they had a train station, a power plant right outside of
there. But there's small villages and stuff we’d pass through along the way, so we'd see civilians,
�but we weren't engaging with those because that was not part of the area that we were covering
we were just transiting through. So, no real engagement with the Iraqis at this point.
Interviewer: Now this time around did you have any more of a sense of so, the larger scope
with a war or what was happening or were you again just kind of doing your job and not
worrying about the rest of it?
(1:22.09)
No I mean I- I knew, I had been, I mean I had been following the news for- for the most part
and- and I knew, I mean I knew it when the- the previous deployment we were doing the surge
that this was part of the surge and that's kind of what we were. And I knew at the second
deployment that we were at a point where a lot of the fighting had kind of just died off in that
way. A lot of the, actually so a lot of it went from engaging in the city and stuff and just focusing
on so IEDs and IED makers were the largest threat and they were getting better at making IEDs
and making more powerful, which is why the military was starting to transition over to the
MRAPs over the Humvees and we had Humvees at that time and I think they had just started
implementing the- the mine the mine-resistant vehicles because they were making IEDs that
could blow up Humvees and so you know. So I understood that that was, that was going on that
the threats were kind of changing and it seemed everything that we were doing you know there
was some sort of response to it and then we'd have to, it’s kind of back and forth they figure
something out – to get past our defenses or you know– to hit us and then we figure out a way to
prevent it and then they figure something new to get around that. So, I mean with I- I mean IEDs
was always, has always been like a progressive thing where you know, they go from remote,
they go from wire command detonation, to remote control detonation where they have cell
phones or the Motorola base stations connected to these wireless phones that had like extremely
�long distances they can do, and then we started implementing you know the Chameleon
Defender systems which would block radio signals around the vehicles so it’d create a bubble so
if they, you know press the button the radio signal wouldn’t get to the- the IED they're trying to
detonate. But then they'd go back to, they you know try pressure plate ones again or they do a
combination of remote and wire command, you know they were getting better at making
homemade explosives so they were starting to add additional chemicals into their explosives to
make them more powerful or they, you know depending on who they were targeting whether
their personnel, IEDs, or you know for vehicles stuff like that. And this, by the time they’re also
doing a lot of secondary stuff, so they'd have an initial blast and then they'd have secondary ones
off to the side. So these were threats we were all aware of, where we were at, the you know the
biggest threat was going into Al Qayn because it was you know became a large going, into a
more urban area and there was quite a bit of traffic on the roads we were traveling. We were, our
thing in Iraq anyways it was drive as fast as you can, and hopefully the blast will leave you
behind. Or you will leave the blast behind kind of thing, so we were pushing you know 55- 60
miles an hour down roads to get we were going. In Afghanistan everything was like four or five
miles an hour. Anytime you traveled anywhere it was really slow because you'd have IEDs were
much bigger there and it was, you'd have EOD teams and route clearance teams in front of you
which would do a snail's pace to get anywhere.
(1:26.14)
Interviewer: Alright, okay so with Iraq on some level in a conventional sense you sort of
had the- the upper hand, but there was still an enemy out there. They were still active,
there was still threats.
Yes.
�Interviewer: Okay alright and again with this- with this second tour again are there
particular aspects of that standout for you or distinctive?
No, I mean so I think there was a- a murder of some official while we were out there. So, we
went to investigate, the Iraqi police went there and did their investigation, but we went to- to
assist with that in some capacity. You know I don't remember a whole lot, I, actually no I think
we were- we were doing- we were doing a patrol in the desert and we came across, because out
on the outskirts towards the border they had like a border teams out there, and the border team
was investigating some murder. And so, we’d get to this compound in the middle of the desert
kind of area, and there were all these essentially police vehicles out there. So we stopped in to
see what was going on and it ended up being a murder or something like that, but you know we
were just kind of patrolling through and they, we come across this and you know the border team
was taking care of it.
(1:27.43)
Interviewer: Alright and then how common was it for the vehicles in your convoys were to
actually set off IEDs or hit them?
Because we were operating in the middle of the desert, I mean there was essentially no, because
there was no roads where we were going; we were like traveling open desert. There was no, there
were some like tracks that had been made and I, you know that seemed to be at some sort of you
know at least frequently traveled avenues that they had, but we weren't sticking to any of those
we were just traveling the open desert. So, I mean there's no way someone could anticipate thethe route we were gonna be going.
Interviewer: So, it's only the occasional trip into town that had an established route.
�And we no, we didn't hit, we didn't hit- any have any ID strikes. I know we stopped on quite a
few occasions and called EOD, we had found a few IEDs and had EOD come in and disarm and
dispose but no IED strikes.
(1:29.01)
Interviewer: Alright so, okay now when then do you get home from that tour?
That was October 2008 is when I was done there.
Interviewer: Alright now at this point are you still looking to get another deployment or
what are you gonna do next?
Yeah so, I had already reenlisted so for me it was, I was planning, and I enjoyed being
ANGLICO there much more relaxed, because these had all these officers. They were pretty
much lax on kind of the- the menial tasks. If it wasn't something we needed to get done, then
we're not gonna do it, we're not just gonna be cleaning for the sake of cleaning. Which some of
the, like the infantry units is definitely they want to keep you busy. So, we didn't do busy work
we, we trained. By that time, I picked up sergeant, so I was in charge of a, the communications
for an, a SALT, which is a support and logistics team. So, we had three teams under us or three
firepower control teams and then the headquarters for that. So, I was in charge of the
communications and essentially, I was in charge of the team, I was essentially the senior enlisted
guy in charge. Also, by the time I had kind of gotten a good grasp on the air and fire- fire support
aspects of it and how to set everything up and coordinate everything. And then the and because I
had a, the ability to actually get people to do what I wanted them to do in an effective way and
the officers listened to me, quite a bit of officers and they took my opinion seriously and I
actually kept a lot of things from them so I, I kept training going, I kept things going. I kept
everyone on task, so I didn't get bothered by the officers for the most part I let them know what
�was going on it's like this is what we're doing. So, the guy that was supposed to be in charge he
pretty much said, “hey you just keep doing what you're doing and I'm just gonna sit back,” and
that was fine with me because it's you know, I enjoyed taking the lead on that.
(1:31.17)
Interviewer: Yeah well it is something that an awful lot of officers will say, is that they
ultimately depend on the senior NCOs to keep things running and know what's going on
and the smart ones by and large will let them do that. So, you basically become one of those
NCOs.
Yeah so yeah I and I pretty much every morning I'd go in and brief the officers on what our,
what we were planning for the day and I’d asked if there's anything that needed to be done or
they had anything and then I would implement it into the training plan. And I'd give them
training plans for the week and for the month of what we were planning on doing, so I'd set up
training areas and I'd set up, you know depending on what we needed to work on. So, if we
needed to work on you know land navigation, I might set up a land application course to send
guys through. We might need to work on communication setting up radios antennas we might
need to work on fire support missions we do that kind of thing and I'd set all the training up andand I you know we'd get input from the officers and they'd get tasking from headquarters and
say, “hey these things need to get done.” So, we'd get them, a lot of times it'd be, you know some
sort of online training thing that you had to do, or you know everyone needs to go into medical to
get screened for shots or something like that. So, I would add that into the training schedule and
make sure it all got done. Pretty much if you head things off, before, if you do things before, they
tell you to do them then they just stop telling you to do things because they already know you
have it done so.
�Interviewer: So alright now were you doing that was this Camp Pendleton where you were
based, or you go somewhere else?
(1:32.56)
Yeah this is Camp Pendleton I was, it was Los Flores which is like in the middle of Camp
Pendleton along the coast there so we had nice access to the Pacific Ocean right there so we’d
often do runs down in the morning to the Pacific Ocean and then do a swim, so we do a run,
swim, and then run back and by that time I had, so we the- the section I was with we had been
attached to the 11th MEU so we were getting ready for a deployment then. Because actually they
weren’t, they didn't have a company. The last deployment we went on to Iraq was a companywide deployment to Iraq, so the whole company went out and detached to all these units.
Interviewer: Right.
They didn't have a company-wide deployment schedule in the future. They had a- brigade, which
is I like a platoon sized unit which was like six teams and the headquarters and stuff like that that
were gonna be attaching to units, but they didn't have the company-wide so they had to figure
out what they were gonna do with the other companies. Because there was a thing with about
relevancy for ANGLICO because this type of thing could be taught to other units, and other units
could possibly take over this mission. The commander had to make sure that we remained
relevant and we're participating a lot of, a lot of things and stayed busy so that people knew that
you needed the unit, because they had been disbanded at one point. So, they wanted to not get
disband again so they said, “hey we're gonna jump on the, were gonna send a detachment on the
MEU.” So we were the first ANGLICO unit to go on a MEU since… forever, I don't… they had
been on in the past but it'd been a long time since they sent the detachment on the MEU, and we
detached, so we were part of the headquarters of MEU. And that was actually a great experience
�because right off the bat, once we started training with MEU, we had been able to get,
established communications really quickly when we got to shore for any operation. So, it became
apparent that anytime anyone went to shore we had this an ANGLICO out to shore also because
they would have communications for sure, and then they could go around helping other people
get communications. Which is great because I'd go out there and I’d set up three or four different
nets to talk to the ship so we, by that time we had satellite communications that we could do and
I’d have a mobile set up, and then I’d get up and set up field expedient antennas and do HF shipto-shore communications. You know hundreds of miles away.
(1:35.53)
Interviewer: Okay so when do you ship out you then? You’re at Pendleton you train and
get your assignment so now when do you head out?
This I want to say was in October of 2009 is when I ended up because it was, I think we had
Halloween and then…
Interviewer: That’s on October 31st.
Yeah so would have been just after November.
Interviewer: Okay.
And yeah, we again were… I think we were just scheduled to do the South Pacific tour again, but
we ended up mostly hanging out in the Gulf of Aden at the, by the Horn of Africa and Yemen.
They were doing operations from the ship into Yemen I believe and at, because there was
nothing for us to do that's the- the ship operations they were doing operations, we ended up
going to Djibouti and working with the French commandos that were stationed there and some of
the French Foreign Legion. Our officer really great guy, Captain Comangeon, he didn't like
sitting around doing nothing and wanted to stay relevant. So, while we were waiting there, he's
�like, “well when we're doing…” Because we’d do these squares in the ocean, “it's like at one leg
when we're close enough that we can attack at helicopter and get into the base on Djibouti.”
Because there's a military, a US military base there. And so, he started doing air naval gunfire
liaison company, we were- we liaison with people so we started, he started working with- talking
to the US forces on that base about working with the French forces in the area. So we were able
to set that up and then we were able to set up follow-on training for the battalion landing team
because they were sitting around doing nothing, so they got to get like two-week training
exercise in Djibouti also because we were able to set up that relationship there with the French.
(1:38.06)
Interviewer: Okay and what impression did you have on the French military?
They are pretty good, arrogant for no reason. I don’t know, it was weird because like we- we
have a lot of good, we had a lot of capabilities with us. We brought laser target designators
which could guide you know bombs from aircraft. We had laser pointers, we had spotters, and
range finders and all kinds of great equipment for you know getting bombs on to, on to targets
and stuff like that, and the… and we were- we came- we were a very professional team. They,
we were kind of a hand-picked group because we were gonna be the first MEU and we wanted to
make a good impression, so we were all hand-picked. So, we were working with everyone ourour team were, they were all very mature, very responsible people for the most part. So we came
in and we were very professional and you know very humble, like you know “hey we want to
help out, and we want to work with you guys, and we want to learn from you guys,” and they
were just like they go “oh were so much better than you guys,” and I was just like [Laughter] not
really necessary but it wasn't, it wasn't that bad. We worked with the, so the commandos weren't
that bad, so we work with them and we didn't really get that a whole lot from them. Then we
�worked with their artillery, one of their artillery units and some of the other JTAG so we ended
up doing like a combined arms exercise. We had a, there was an aircraft carrier that was going
close by, and so pilots need to get certain qualifications. They need to drop bombs to stay current
on some of their qualifications, and we were in a position where we had control of a range area
and we could, we could do that for them. So, we got to a… we ended up working with the
aircraft carrier which has you know dozens of aircraft they can drop bombs and we have our
helicopter deck which has Harriers that can you know drop bombs also. So, we did like two or
three days of just continuously destroying this range. We were doing like stacks and just flying
aircraft in and doing controls for aircraft and stuff like that. And we were working with, we had
the French come out with us, so they were you know doing that also because they had JTAGS
which is, it's all part of a NATO thing. Kind of a… where there's like a NATO standard for air
support and fire support kind of thing. But yeah- yeah, the French they were, I thought they were
a little arrogant, but you know they had their wine and their cheese, which they actually did. You
know I- I think it's funny because we, I've worked with a number of other militaries and they you
know, a lot of especially a lot of other countries drinking is kind of they will bring alcohol on to
field ops with them and… but the US is kind of taking a hands-off approach to alcohol. And its,
they don't do any alcohol and stuff. So, it's kind of you know funny to see how they'll go out and
they'll have, you know at the end of the day they'll crack open the beers and they'll have a good
time. And we are just like no we're not, we're we are working it will after our seven months then
we'll have a beer kind of thing. But you know…
(1:42.09)
Interviewer: Alright well they have their way. Alright and so how long did you spend out
and in that area?
�A month and a half we were out there.
Interviewer: Alright and then from there then what?
From there… I think that was the most… I know we stopped it a number of ports on the way in
and the way out because they wanted to give us, because most of people on the ship didn't get off
the ship we were lucky we were able to get of the ship for quite a while, so we were getting
towards the end of the deployment. We ended up making our way back towards… or the other
way to Hawaii, I think we stopped in Thailand, and maybe Singapore I, we I think we stopped in
two places then we stopped in Hawaii and they did a tiger cruise on the way home where they,
where family members can- can pick up the ship in Hawaii because they drop off a lot of people
in Hawaii that are you know forward advance party so they prepared the- the place to unload
equipment and stuff. So, yeah, I think that was for the most part.
Interviewer: Okay, alright and then is it just back to Camp Pendleton at this point?
(1:43.27)
Yeah back to Camp Pendleton.
Interviewer: Okay and then how long do you stay there this time?
Until so I'm at Camp Pendleton until I think 2011 is when I redeployed to Afghanistan and this
was a, this was not a company-wide it was most of the company, but not all of the company.
There was another unit that had went to I think Iraq, another section of ANGLICO they went to
Iraq, and there was another… we got back, and then they started doing rotations with the MEU
so there was another group that went with MEU. And then the rest of the company went to
Afghanistan and that was in May of 2012, so we got the summer of, in Afghanistan.
Interviewer: Alright so what was your assignment then in Afghanistan?
(1:44.17)
�There, so we were assigned to the Georgian Army we were attached to the- the Georgians, held a
section in… outside of I believe Sangin I think the Marines held Sangin and then to the west of
Sangin was another area across the river that the Georgians, the Georgian Army occupied. And
we were assigned to them, and actually we did a workup with them. So, instead of doing like
they- they there's a special training plan for units going to Afghanistan, usually I think
Bridgeport is where they'll go. And I had been to Bridgeport actually several times for training
just kind of regular training kind of exercise stuff, but we trained with the- the Georgians and
because they were in Georgia and we were in the US we met halfway we met in Germany which
is somewhere halfway, but we ended up doing a training exercise with them in Hohenfels,
Germany for the workup and then they went back to Georgia and then they deployed to
Afghanistan, and then I think we were two weeks before… two or three weeks before they got
there, so we switched over. There was an ANGLICO unit with the, I think 33rd Georgian
battalion and then we switched with that ANGLICO so we're with the 33rd for like two weeks
and then they swapped out with the 31st Georgian battalion and that was the unit that we had
been in Germany with.
(1:45.53)
Interviewer: Okay, and what was that battalion’s assignment at that point?
They were pretty much to secure the, keep the area secured. They were running patrols and stuff,
the Georgian army. Eventually they wanted to, they expanded on the- they're- they’re AO they
expanded West and they include I think it was like 20- 30 kilometers west they expanded to an
area that was like known for IEDs that they wanted to clear out that area. So, but yeah, a lot of it
was you know clearance kind of and just hold space for the most part.
�Interviewer: Alright now by this time you you've seen a number of different militaries from
different countries, what impression did you have of the Georgians?
The Georgian's they were, they were stuck in Soviet times.
Interviewer: Okay.
(1:46.54)
They were… you know I talk to a lot of guys; I talked to a lot of guys there and they were saying
you know that Afghanistan for them was their training to fight Russia. Because the- the- the
2008 deal in South Ossetia had been not too long ago and there was a lot of hurt feelings on that.
So, they seemed… and you know sometimes people would joke about those things, it didn't seem
like they were joking for the most part, maybe I just didn't get their humor, but they seemed
serious that they thought this was training for fighting Russia. You know Georgia is not a large
country and they I think three battalions is the extent of their- their infantry so I don't know how
well they'd fare; I mean South Ossetia was, it's a couple days.
Interviewer: Yup and they might have to borrow tactics from the Afghans at that point,
rather than be like the Russians.
(1:47.53)
Yeah, and but they were- they were a lot of their tactics and stuff were kind of soviet-era kind of
conventional warfare’s, what they were looking at, you know the US had been in Iraq and
Afghanistan for a while now, so we were kind of, I mean our whole mindset had changed at that
point. So, we were trying to keep them on, on par with that. One of the biggest things was trying
to convince them not to shoot at everything because that was a big problem, they would be
trigger-happy and they'd just start firing away at anything that moved and it's kind of like, don't
do that. You know not everyone that you see is an enemy, you know there was a, an old man that
�was walking, because there was… we were- we were on COP Sherdvani, which was this outpost
on the hill, on this hill and we had you know guard posts all around and it looked down and
there's a river, I don't know maybe five- ten kilometers away and then to the north and south
there was villagers that kind of spread up and down. Or actually nothing down, it was a desert
down. Up is where all of villages spread north and there was an old man coming towards the gate
and the- the Georgians were, started shooting at him because they said he was holding what
looked to be an IED which, yes he was, he was actually trying to bring them something he had
found which was like wires and stuff for making IEDs. We don't know if it was actually being
used for anything or what it was, but you know so we had to you know bring the guy and get
medical treatment and stuff like that and- and get him to further on care because didn't have
facilities where we were at. But yeah so it was it was we had to kind of rein them in like you
know this isn't the West, this is, you know you got to be careful what you're doing.
(1:49.57)
Interviewer: Okay and you had mentioned before that moving around in Afghanistan was
a very slow process.
Yeah so everywhere we went there was, there were a IEDs everywhere, you know I- I think 50%
of the patrols we went on we probably hit, someone hit an IED and most times we went out we
had EOD or route clearance that went ahead of us. Most- most was mounted SEF because we
were, there it wasn't- there was villages that we you'd stop and you do dismounted, a few of the
basis, so we had Sherdvani and there was a smaller base north of us, about five kilometers, and
five kilometers north that was another base. Kind of like how it was in Afghanistan or in Iraq
where they had them split up. And they would do ones that were, had a village nearby they
would do my dismounted patrols and stuff and they'd have mine sweepers with them. And they'd
�carry backpack chameleon things which help prevent from remote-control IEDs and stuff. But
yeah so, we had, but we there was IED strikes all the time. The vehicles we were using were the
M ramps were the mine-resistant vehicles so I mean usually the most damage would be blow off
a wheel and someone would smack their head on a hard surface inside the vehicle, or an ammo
can would come flying and knock them in the head, or some sort of concussion blast would you
know cause an injury of some sort. I think we had; I was doing LZ operations when I was there
for the most part. I was again doing communications right at the main gate communications with
everyone and help fix equipment and- and- and stuff like that but then I, we’d would be running
the- the landing zone so anything that was going in and out of the AO came through our landing
zone, so any injuries would come to our landing zone, they get pushed out to one of the larger
bases with medical facilities or supplies, anything coming in and out. We, we do supply runs
every couple days so helicopters would come in drop off equipment and stuff like that.
(1:52.21)
Interviewer: And so, it was a lot of the movement by helicopter rather than on roads?
Yes, every once, I think once a month maybe we had a very large convoy come through and it
was great because we'd see them, and they'd be like thirty kilometers out and they'd be moving at
three, four miles an hour and so slow. And like you'd see them there and because you're waiting
for them to get here because they're gonna come with supplies like, I, you know and they’d have
like a mobile PX that they’d bring with them so snacks and that kind of thing that you could buy,
and you'd be like, “oh man I can't wait till they get there.” And you'd see them on the map for
like two days traveling at the snail's pace and…
Interviewer: Yeah alright how much did you see the Afghans themselves?
(1:53.08)
�Not a lot, we had, so we had an Iraqi army… or
Interviewer: Afghan.
Afghan army unit that was also on the base so, and I communicate, I would go talk to them
because they had, they could get local food and stuff like that so we actually got a goat at one
point and we talked to them and they’d go out and they do patrols and if you wanted something
they could bring it back. So, we pooled together some money and we got a goat and they fixed it
up for us. I ended up getting beans and rice… a bag of beans- a bag of beans and rice and some
vegetables and stuff I’d get on a regular basis so I can cook something myself instead of eating
MREs every single day. So, I would have some communications with them, but the local- the
local people not so much communications with them. You know when we pushed west, we were
in an area that was again heavily IED’d and so often the locals would know where everything
was because they’d have to know so they can move around and stuff like that. And a lot of the
people we were, that lived there were like farmers so it was I mean it was pretty rural- rural area
and you know we would, I think we would engage with them for like intel purposes from time to
time. You know I was mostly, like I said I was mostly doing the landing zones we’d get locals
that were injured so we had several occasions where there was either a firefight sometime before
then and you know 20- 30 minutes later you'd have a local coming with a pickup truck and say,
“oh so-and-so was- was hurt or injured from fragmentation or from crossfire.” Or something like
that and you know it's questionable whether they were in the crossfire or they were the people
that were being shot at because they moved from one… like so the Marines in the area of
operations adjacent to us, they'd be in a firefight and then because we’d have all the traffic that
was you know going on in the area we were monitoring it and there'd be firefight going on and
then 20 minutes later we'd have a local come by and say “oh yes someone you know they were
�caught in a crossfire.” It's like well we don't you know, we can't tell it's you know we try to talk
to the other unit and say, “hey can you identify anyone?” It's like you know you can't identify
this guy as being you know your target. Or we get and there’s, we’d get small children
sometimes with injuries of some sort. Sometimes they would be related to- to combat other times
I think would just you know regular injuries health issues and stuff like that. And we do, we'd
send them out.
(1:56.18)
Interviewer: Now would your teams that you were with, would you have anybody who
functioned as a medic and would you get that kind of training?
Yeah, we so, we had gotten in… so in, by the time… I had gone I mean in basic training you get
medical; you know basic first aid. By the time I did my second Iraq deployment we had do, they
had developed a, it was a combat response course where they go through specific training for
combat trauma injuries and stuff like that. It's much more in-depth and they had, you know they
had changed a lot of things from when they initially had been teaching us. So, tourniquets were
now a good thing, in the past it had been pressure dressings and you don't want to put a
tourniquet on unless it's necessary because if you put a tourniquet on, they're like “oh you're
gonna lose the limb.” Now it was everyone was carrying tourniquets you have people carrying
tourniquets for each limb, you know they'd have, you’d carry them up on here and they'd have
ones in their cargo pockets you know in case, you know they hit an IED and then you could put a
tourniquet on and then it was pretty much standard, it's like if someone is injured throw a
tourniquet on it and you know, let the doctors deal with it when you get down the road for the
most part. So, we had gotten more advanced combat training. We actually before Afghanistan we
got to go to what's called the pig lab which is, they do, they sedate pigs and they do like gunshot
�blasts and stuff on the pigs in different ways and then we have to treat those injuries and keep the
pig alive so it's a sedated so it's not moving or I can't feel anything but they would do like a
shotgun blast to the leg and then we’d have to do like tourniquets on the pig, you know stop the
bleeding and that kind of thing. And you were pretty much tested on your ability to keep the pig
alive for as long as possible, they’d do lacerations and different things like that.
(1:58.28)
Interviewer: So, you’re learning a fair amount of sort of wound treatment and so forth.
But you guys would not normally have a navy corpsman with you?
No, we… I’m trying to think if we had a corpsman with us because we- we would I know on the
MEU we had a corpsman with us, and I want to say yes, we had a corpsman with us. Our- our
section was attached with the corpsman. Because they wanted us to be self-sustaining so they
wanted our- our section with ANGLICO so what, we had our headquarter section and then we
had our teams and we wanted that whole entity to be able to go anywhere and be autonomous
and not have to rely on the unit to support us. We wanted to be able to support the unit and not
have to rely on them support us. So we had to go with everything that we needed so we would
bring our own food, we could get our own… so we often we would get supplies, supplied
through the unit we were supporting but we can also get supplied through our own avenues,
which is great because we had two routes to work for supplies and getting things. So yes, we
went with, we did go with our own corpsman and then when we got there, he ended up going
into the, they had a small aid station and pretty much work directly for the aid station there, so
treating injuries and stuff. A lot of like scorpion stings and bites and stuff like that, often that was
kind of an excuse for them to get out and go to one of the main bases and go eat at a- a chow
hole or something like that.
�(2:00.12)
Interviewer: Alright so was daily life there any better or worse than it had been in Iraq?
No, I probably- I probably stayed as busy as I had, I mean I, I had more of a routine in
Afghanistan than I did in Iraq for that first deployment. For the first deployment I was kind of
running around with the chicken, like a chicken with my head cut off where I you know, I didn't
know what was going on from day to day. There it was, we had set up a routine, so we were for
the most part in the command center, we'd have a shift there running operations. So, supporting
units with air, we get air on stations UAVs to kind of do overwatch of any patrols going on. If
there was a fire fight that broke out, then we could call air on station quickly, we would, I, in the
evenings I mean Afghanistan seemed to run on the- the- the enemy, they ran on a schedule. So,
like in the morning you could count like between eight and nine you get a fire fight, or you get
some sort of activity going on. Around eleven o'clock things would stop, it's lunchtime no one's
fighting, no one's doing anything and that would go on for you know the day, because it was hot
all day and then once the Sun started shutting down and it started getting cooler then things
would pick up again, and then once the Sun went down then you'd start having people and place
IEDs and we’d, so we'd have different aircraft, four different things scheduled like around that
routine. So, like in the morning we'd have some sort of attack aircraft that's on schedule and we'd
have them fly at a distance so they couldn't be heard or seen, and if something broke out, wewe'd fly them in. In the evening we'd have UAV support you know covering routes that we knew
IEDs to be placed in and then we'd have like HIMARS or GMLARS which are long-range
missile systems and we do; you know prosecute those targets like that. Or we’d have artillery
within range that had I think they had… though they had guided artillery pieces that they were
using at that time that we could use. But often we’d do, so we’d have that, and we'd have
�illumination arounds so we might do illumination rounds and, so we can do like a BDA on the
targets and stuff like that. So it was, but there was kind of a routine setup, and like you know in
the mornings I would do you know, we'd switch things around a little bit but for a while as me in
the mornings I would do landing zones, and then so I would sit there standby to run down to the
to the LZ if there was some sort of casualty that we need to evacuate or something that, I can run
down the LZ, aircraft would be inbound I secure the LZ land them. You know assess the- the
injured and then relay that information, make sure they're getting treatment that kind of stuff. So,
and then in the evenings then I do COC watch and I'd sit up there for a while.
(2:03.32)
Interviewer: So, was there, did you have much to shoot at?
I didn't, well…
Interviewer: Target.
Yeah- yeah, I mean so you know, small arms fire, not for me because I was on the base. For thefor the most part I mean, I’d go on patrol every once in a while. But you know there's nothing
that came to my attention for that, for the most part, but as far as like targets for you know IED
in places and things like that or if other units were out getting a smallish fire, I mean that was
you know IEDs almost every other day you’d find someone. Small arms fire we'd have ended up
finding, yet again we come into a problem with identifying where the- the shootings coming
from. Now it's a little bit easier because it wasn't a large urban area that people could hide at, but
often it’d just be a couple shots from the distance and you’d get a report on the radio like, “oh
shots fired.” It's like “which direction?” You know, “what's the distance?” Like, “well we don't
know.” It's like, “well call us back when you know.” It's like, we'll put a UAV in the area and see
if we can spot some things out.
�(2:04.40)
Interviewer: Now was it possible to spot people actually planting IEDs?
Yeah- yeah, we’d do that like almost every other night. We, I mean I think it was like a couple
weeks straight where it was like the same spot. They were, someone was out there trying to put
an IED in for like a week straight, or like two weeks straight, and it was like every night we were
like, it's like you would think they would stop putting an IED in right in the same location.
Because we'd sit there and watch someone putting in an IED and then we'd hit that target with
you know, usually it's the long-range missiles or something like that. And then you know, two
hours later someone would go by and try to pick up the, you know they take the body away and
they- they do that and then you'd have them, someone else go up there and try to take the IED
that they were just trying to implant and try to put it back in and then we'd hit them again. So, it's
yeah…
Interviewer: So how were you observing this?
We had UAVs; I mean we had pretty much we had, could have aerial surveillance. We also had a
like an eye in the sky, so we had on- in middle of the base we had this giant camera a FLIR
system which does, you know regular color images, black-and-white thermal, so all kinds of neat
stuff and it has zoom capability and all that stuff.
(2:06.12)
Interviewer: So, you could see them at night?
Yeah.
Interviewer: But it didn’t register with them that you could see them at night?
I don't know, I mean because like it would register, like we- they could tell if we had aircraft on
station. So, like they knew that if- that if they heard the helicopters that they need to get away,
�get out of there. And that's what they did and so we would have to, like if we were doing patrols,
we'd have aircraft on station with the patrols going out, but we'd have to keep them at a distance.
So, they couldn’t be, couldn’t be seen or heard, so they’d be in, have them in defilade you knowyou know quite a ways a away. So, because if they were on station then they wouldn’t attack so I
mean that kind of registered and even with like fixed-wing aircraft; if they were flying too low in
way that they could be seen or heard then there'd be no engagement with that. So, we would try
to keep them out of the way so we can draw up the enemy and then we’d bring them in and so I
don't know why, you know they would keep putting in the IEDs I mean it was like, it would
happen- it was like two weeks straight where it was happening on a regular basis at this same
location. And we, I mean we kept watching that location because it was where they kept putting
them.
(2:07.34)
Interviewer: Now how long did you spend in Afghanistan?
Seven months.
Interviewer: Okay and over the course of that time did anything change? Or were things
pretty much the same the whole time?
No, well we- we did a massive expansion, so we like quadrupled the size of the area that we
were covering. I mean most of that area was all desert, we were expanding to this road that was
far to the ???? from Iran is where we had gotten, they’d have their identification on them from
where they're from. And I think Iran was one of the big places that we were getting people. We
were finding, so the people that we hit emplacing IEDs, a lot of times that's where they were
from. And so, I don't think a lot of it was local people that were- were doing anything for the
most part. I think it was just outsiders coming in and causing disruptions or that kind of thing.
�(2:08.33)
Interviewer: Alright now this was you last war and deployment, right?
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay. Now had you at a certain point decided that it was your time to get out
of the Marine Corps?
Yeah, I decided, well so when I got back, I was pretty sure I was getting out. And I had extend
for a, a month because when you get back from a deployment you have to have at least three
months before you get out and I only had two month so I had to extend for a month so I can get
out. And I had looked into trying out for the for the- the HUMINT team, the human intelligence
team or counter-intel, so I had looked in that and I started the- the process through that. But at
that point it was, their deployment cycles, I had gotten onto a pretty frequent deployment cycle
by that time. Their deployment cycles were- were pretty much constant. They were always gone
somewhere, you know a lot of cases I talked to guys and they- they said they'd get back from a
deployment and then two weeks later they'd be back on a plane going to another, for another
deployment somewhere. Mind you some of the deployments were short deployments, it was you
know. But I had looked into that and but eventually you know, by that time I was also married
and had at least one kid, so… yeah I figured it was and I had I mean, I had done a lot by then
and- and I had you know, I figured after eight years if I do another enlistment I might as well do
20. And I really was actually kind of fed up with, you know, you got- you weigh the- the good
times and the bad times. And I had a lot of great times but there was a lot of times where I was
just like this thing, this blow. You know just the- the military bureaucracy kind of system that
had going on and it seemed to me you know, I was- I was a sergeant and that I think is the best
place to be. If I pick up staff, I'd be doing more of a desk kind of job at that time, and it, it
�seemed that a lot of the- the guys that did stay in that's all they really had, you know. We had a
lot of people, I got… it's funny, when I was in Iraq it was like anyone who was educated is
probably left already by that time. You know the same thing I think I was thinking with the
military was like anyone who's smart enough to do something outside of the military has gotten
out and is doing that. Anyone left in is, you know, is- they- they're not getting out because they
can't get out. They wouldn't be able to do anything else; just it was a lot of that. A lot of people
stuck in their ways and…
(2:11.20)
Interviewer: Was there any encouragement to go and become an officer?
No- not really, you know I actually, so when I was on the- the 11th MEU I had signed up for- I
had put an application in for the MECEP- MECEP program which is the military to officer, the
enlisted to officer program I put an application in for that. That did not go through, I mean they
only have so many slots for that and so that was kind of my venture at doing that, but no one
really was like, “oh you should go officer.” I mean at that point I was; you know I was out the
door and most people kind of knew, I mean, and I had- I had told my officers. you know I said,
“you know when we get back from this deployment I got three months.” It's like I'm not doing
anything when I get back, it's like I worked my butt off for eight years and I, you know and I'm
not gonna quit at the very end, but at the same time it's like, you guys don't, you know, you can
handle, you- everyone is, you guys should be able to handle this now. You know I got things to
worry about before I get out, so. And they were fine with that and they said, you know, “you do
whatever you need to do.” So that was great.
(2:12.34)
�Interviewer: Okay, now what does the military sort of now do in terms of helping to
transition people? You’re leaving the military, to go back to civilian life, whether its
coming back from deployment or getting out entirely, do they provide anything for you?
Yeah, so they had a weeklong, I think it was-it was either three days or a weeklong, either way
They, you’re supposed to do that you can do it up to a year before you get out but you're, so
you're supposed to be given an opportunity to go between a year and during your last year up to
thirty days. I mean you can do it from any time, but they say you ideally you want to do at least
60 days before you get out. I think I did mine like, I don't know a month before I got out and that
was with that deployment, I had just got back from a deployment and I kind of set it up that way.
So, I can make, I'm- you know I wanted to make sure I got it done. And they go over a lot of
things and they try to specialize it for what you're kind of interested in. If you're looking for a
job, they're gonna focus more on your resume and interview skills, and then probably try and get
you in touch with, you know people that can help find you a job. If you're trying to go back to
school, then they can have people to help navigate the GI bill and you set up for that. If you're
trying to open your own business they got people to help with that kind of thing, but yeah I think
it was, and they- they say oh you know you could show up in your civilian clothes, you don'tthey try to make it relaxed and it's all ran by civilians and stuff like that, you know. I think I went
in my uniform the entire time. I think, I- except for the day they do interviews they said don't
wear your uniform so it's, I didn't wear my uniform because they told me not to. But I mean…
Interviewer: Did they do anything in terms of helping or offer to help people who may have
PTSD issues or other things like that? Or just general stuff, but adjusting to life, civilian
life and how you have to behave now or anything like that?
(2:14.46)
�Not, I don't- I don’t remember any, a whole lot of that, you know. A lot of it was just on like
your- your benefits and stuff, well big harping on putting in your- your if you have needed to
make a VA claim. Putting that, getting like situated and stuff like that but not a lot with you
know mental health and stuff like that. Pretty much it's, you know a lot of the, anything medical
related was kind of more associated with your VA claim and they're saying you know if you
don't have things documented make sure you go get them documented now or make sure you can
identify that stuff and put them in, make sure they're in your record so you can do your claim. So
you can get compensated for any injuries you have whether they're physical or mental health
issues but I don't think there was a whole lot of, you know classes or anything on like adjusting
or you know this is how you talk to your employer, you know you can't knife hand people kind of
thing.
(2:15.49)
Interviewer: Alright, so now when do you actually get out?
So, I got- I got so I had leaves saved up, so I got out sometime in- sometime in March I got out. I
actually got, went, used tuition assistance and went and got my Class A license through a local
school and they, so I took leave and did that so I was still getting paid and they're paying for the
school at the same time and then I got out and I took the rest of my leave and it so, did terminal
leave and then I actually stayed in San Diego until, because my wife was in the Navy so we
stayed there until she got out which was another I don't know almost two years.
Interviewer: Class A license?
All commercial driver's license, I can drive the big semi-trucks.
Interviewer: Alright, so is that what you wound up doing while you were there or?
�No, well I got out, when I got out I pretty much immediately got an offer or someone was telling
me, told me about- so the- the school I went through to get my license they had a placement and
they had got word that the VA hospital in San Diego was looking for drivers that are veterans,
and so I got a job at, in there… as a- a vehicle, a motor vehicle operator for the VA hospital
there. A lot of driving buses and stuff like that. So not semi tracks but buses and so I could utilize
my- my Class A license.
(2:17.19)
Interviewer: Okay, and then once your wife got out, then what did you wind up doing?
We ended up moving back to Michigan and then I started working for the Rapid, driving the bus
here and I started taking classes. I had actually, so while I was working for the VA hospitals, I
was actually going to a local community college and got my EMT certification. Mostly because I
was preparing for the move and I wanted to have options for jobs and stuff and because I had
gotten an extensive- extensive, I got quite a bit of training in first aid and trauma. I figured EMT
I could probably handle something like that but when I moved, I ended up getting a job driving
for the bus, so I didn't need my EMT certification.
(2:18.07)
Interviewer: Alright and so now what have you basically decided to do with yourself? Go to
college?
Yeah- yeah, I started taking part-time classes when I got to Grand Rapids at Grand Valley and
then I switched to full-time and then I changed my major to philosophy and that's what I've been
doing. Actually, gonna be going to grad school for philosophy, my PhD and…
Interviewer: You’ve also have been actively involved with the student veteran’s
organization, what motivated you to do that?
�Well so even when I was at, so I was at the VA hospital working as a driver I was also
volunteering at the DAV. Helping coordinate transportation for veterans to get to their medical
appointments and so, and then when I got to Grand Rapids, I was actually actively seeking out
volunteer opportunities with veterans and I worked with Buddy to Buddy Program which is a
peer mentoring program. And so I have tried to maintain, be active in the veterans community,
you know mostly because I- I get veterans I you know, have that common experience but also
because I know there's a lot of issues that veterans have and I've been fortunate; I don't have any
mental health issues or anything like that. So, it's something I can- I can do, I can try to be that
voice in some way or try to help out where I can so.
Interviewer: What kinds of issues or problems do you see be fairly common among
returning veterans of your own generation or even younger?
(2:19.43)
A, one of the big, I mean mental health issues I think is prevalent and I think it's also, also has to
do with society in general just being more aware of mental health issues; that we can identify
these things. But transitioning in general I think is one of the hardest things I think veterans are
dealing with is how to go from the structured military life and you know, then going to this
group of people that just don't identify with that. You know, a lot of people just seem out of
place, you know with mental health issues you also get, a lot of times you get drinking and that
kind of thing and that again may lead to some sort of spirals where people's life just kind of goes
haywire.
Interviewer: You’ve managed at least yourself.
Yeah.
�Interviewer: Kind of how to go along, how to deal with that. And now going off pursuing
graduate school, philosophy, I mean do you want to become a university professor? Or do
you not really know what you would do with it?
(2:20.52)
That's the yeah, I mean that's- that's the idea at least in- in the Marine Corps I got to teach and I
got to lead and I feel I can, I enjoyed doing that, I mean I think that was one of the best parts of
you know, having a group of Marines that don't know something and then teach them how to do
that thing. I think that was, that was probably one of the best experiences I had, and I enjoyed it
and so I think teaching philosophy in the same way; teaching something to someone that doesn't
know would be a great experience. But also just the research aspect of looking into kind of some
of the bigger questions, you know I'm mostly interested in political philosophy myself right now
but I also have like some of these issues related to the conflict in combat that- that weigh on me
as far as you know why some people are affected by combat and other people are not or, or
trauma. And you know when you know, kind of when is it right to go to war when is it you know
when can I kill people when can I not kill people, or when should I, when shouldn't I? That kind
of thing, I mean I think those are questions a lot of veterans grapple with and you know a society
is, we I think we're gotten to this point where people get back from war and we've- we've taken
this about-face from the Vietnam era where you know, they weren't given their just respect for
what they did and now people are getting back and it's like everything you did was great and
you're infallible and you- you can't, you know you didn't do anything wrong. And I don't think a
lot of veterans feel that way like, you know you can't just, you know say “I did nothing wrong
and that's the truth.” I mean maybe what I did was wrong you know, I don't, but we're not having
that kind of conversation.
�(2:22.48)
Interviewer: Now to sort of thank you for your service, which might have been a good thing
to say to some of the Vietnam guys, but a lot of younger ones are not always sure what to
do with that.
Yeah.
Interviewer: But you’ve sort of moved on now, to the big picture and really thinking about
that on a level that maybe you hadn’t so much when you were on your first deployment.
You found out these larger questions, you’re engaging. I want to kind of close this, but just
asking; what do you think you wound up taking out of the Marine Corps experience? What
did that do for you or how did that affect you?
(2:23.17)
I mean the biggest thing for me was like there's a lot of things I can do and even when you think
you can't do things, like you cannot imagine the- the- the physical, the mental strain that you can
you can go through. You know personally I mean I think one of the reasons I joined the military
in the first place, the Marine Corps, was because I wanted to test myself and I think I did just
that. I mean when I'm struggling with something mentally or physically nowadays I kind of look
back and like, it's like, I've done this and so much more already. I mean there's- there's a lot of,
there's very little I- I don't think that I can't do. I'm you know, I can do more than I think I can,
and I think that's, I mean that's, I think about what it's given me, you know.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Veterans History Project
Creator
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Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
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1914-
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
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Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
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RHC-27_OudbierM2130V
Title
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Oudbier, Matthew (Interview transcript and video), 2017
Date
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2017-06-15
Description
An account of the resource
Matthew Oudbier was born in Bremerton, Washington and grew up in a Marine Corps family. He entered the Delayed Entry Program in 2004 and went to Twentynine Palms, California, for its field radio operators course. Oudbier was then assigned to 1st Stinger Battery or 1st LAD in Futenma on Okinawa, Japan, before being deployed to Ramadi, Iraq, in 2007 where he was his company's radio operator and participated in heavy training. After reenlistment, Oudbier became first ANGLICO, returned to Iraq in 2008, and joined a support/logistics team. He also reenlisted for tours in the Gulf of Aden in 2009 and Sangin, Afghanistan in 2011 where he was assigned to the Georgian Army. After leaving the service, Oudbier got his Class A license and worked at the VA hospital in San Diego before moving back to Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Creator
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Oudbier, Matthew
Contributor
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Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
United States. Marine Corps
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Format
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video/mp4
application/pdf
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Moving Image
Text
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Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27
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Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401.
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Language
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eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1954856bd4028a6df1c980f1e57c97de.pdf
fa3868b783ddc30c9d07ff330a63dddf
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
Darin Jousma
Yugoslav Wars & War on Terror
9 minutes 1 second
(00:00:13) Early Life
-Lived with his parents before enlisting in the Army
-Had a part-time job when he was in high school
(00:00:32) Enlisting in the Army & Training
-Enlisted in the Army in the summer of 1997 after graduating from high school
-Joined the infantry because he liked the idea of being an infantryman
-Training was extremely rough
-Never experienced treatment like that before
(00:01:22) Stationed in Bosnia
-Deployed to Bosnia as part of a peacekeeping force in 1998
-Inspected weapons bunkers and made sure the Serbs were not moving weapons
-No combat
-Remembers going to confiscate weapons from a group of Serbian troops
-The Serbs pulled their weapons and pointed them at the American troops
-American troops radioed in two Apache helicopters to circle the area
-Show of force against the Serbs to show they were no longer in charge
-Serbs dropped their weapons and walked away
(00:03:13) Downtime in the Army
-Read a lot of books
-Played a lot of video games
-Played cards with friends
(00:03:26) Friends in the Army
-Made lifelong friends in the Army
-Drives across the country just to see them
(00:03:45) Contact with Home
-When he was at the barracks in Germany he had access to telephones
-Spent a lot of money on phone cards and calling-collect
-Now, he has Skype and voice chat virtually anywhere in the world
(00:04:27) Stationed in Kuwait
-Got to Kuwait just before Thanksgiving 2004
-Celebrated Thanksgiving and Christmas 2004 in Kuwait
-Wasn't too difficult
-Didn't like being away from home for his birthday though
-Had his birthday in Kuwait shortly before being sent home
(00:05:21) Skills in the Army
-Learned a lot about IT in the Army
-Proved useful in the civilian world
(00:06:02) Current Service Pt. 1
-As of the interview, Darin is in the Michigan National Guard
(00:06:11) Coming Home
-Returning from a deployment is one of the best moments of your life
-Strange to return to a world with hot showers and flushing toilets
�-One thing he missed about deployments was being around and working with close friends
(00:07:13) Stationed at Fort Riley
-Spent a couple years at Fort Riley, Kansas
-Assigned to the 2nd of the 78th Armor
-Most likely 2nd Battalion
-Served as the unit commander's driver
-Fantastic job
-First job he had in the Army where he had a lot of control over his daily schedule
-Mingled with high-ranking officers and saw the command process
(00:08:16) Current Service Pt. 2
-Currently a 2nd lieutenant in the Michigan National Guard
-Will be promoted to 1st lieutenant one month from the interview's date
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_JousmaD1843V
Title
A name given to the resource
Jousma, Darin Richard (Interview outline), 2015
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-02-11
Description
An account of the resource
Darin Jousma enlisted in the Army in the summer of 1997 after graduating from high school. He served in Bosnia in 1998 as part of a peacekeeping force helping with the confiscation of weapons and stopping Serbian forces from moving weaponry and ordnance around the country. He was stationed in Kuwait in 2004. He spent a few years at Fort Riley, Kansas with the 2nd Battalion, 78th Armored Regimant and worked as a commander's driver. As of the time of the interview he is in the Michigan National Guard with the rank of 2nd lieutenant and expects to be promoted to 1st lieutenant.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jousma, Darin Richard
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Jousma, Josh (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cfe0a675fb59828ccabe188f8581fb7a.m4v
05df1c9f6f83a66dba3c228ca844ecb1
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/da4f9671dac447a7bbc02cfe3e02b6df.pdf
ce30d8d32341fd478dfea85f3f9f424c
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
David Sebuck
Kosovo War & Iraq War
52 minutes 51 seconds
(00:00:05) Key Details
-Born in May 1969
-Fought in the Kosovo War and the Iraq War
-Served in the Marine Corps and reached the rank of lieutenant colonel
(00:00:28) Enlisting in the Marines
-Wanted to become a commercial airline pilot
-One way would be to go into the military
-Marines offered him the chance to get into Flight School
(00:01:12) Training Pt. 1
-Went through Officer Candidate School while in college
-After graduating he entered active duty with the Marines
(00:01:20) Family Military Service
-Father tried to serve in the Vietnam War, but was deemed unfit for service
-His uncles served in World War II
(00:01:38) Training Pt. 2
-Did six months of Officer Candidate School
-Had to do four years of training before getting a deployment with the Fleet
-Started out at Naval Air Station Pensacola, Florida
-Trained with the Beechcraft T-34 Mentor (prop-driven, single engined, military trainer)
-Qualified to fly jets
-Sent to Naval Air Station Meridian, Mississippi for Intermediate Training
-Got selected to fly F/A-18 Hornet
-Trained with them
(00:02:36) Joining the Fleet
-After four and a half years he got a Fleet assignment
-Worked on being a Basic Wingman
-Following the Flight Lead and learning how to become a Flight Lead
-Flight Lead led missions
(00:03:45) Adjusting to the Marines
-Adjusted to taking orders and having a lack of choice in his deployments
-Difficult moving his family around when he got a new assignment
-Given only a matter of weeks to prepare for a deployment
-Hard on him and his family
(00:04:58) WESTPAC Deployment
-Went on a WESTPAC (Western Pacific) Deployment
-Assigned to Marine Aircraft Group 31 (MAG-31)
-Operated out of Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort, South Carolina
-Trained in Japan for six months and maintaining a presence in Southeast Asia
(00:05:48) Kosovo War Pt. 1
-Joined the squadron and three months later was deployed to Aviano Air Base, Italy
-Flew missions over Serbia
-Maintaining peace in the region
�-Knew that deployment was coming
(00:06:20) Deployments Pt. 1
-The Iraq deployments came quick
-Within two weeks he had to be ready to be deployed
-On another deployment he was told on a Friday that he was being deployed
-Only given ten days to get ready
-The following Monday the Marines changed their mind
-Emotional roller coaster
-Deployments were hard on his younger children
(00:07:54) Seeing the World
-Got to see more of the worlds through the Marines
-Saw Japan, Thailand, and South Korea as part of WESTPAC
-Exposure to different cultures
-Made him appreciate going home
-Got to see the country and culture of Italy during the Kosovo War
-Saw police with rifles at train stations
-Bottled water was more prevalent than running water
(00:09:38) Training Pt. 3
-As an F/A-18 pilot he had to train all the time
-Evaluated after each training exercise
-Went to Arizona to do tactical exercises and drop live munitions
-Participated in Exercise Red Flag
-Advanced aerial exercise out of Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada
-Focused on preparing for specific missions
-There was no air-air threats in Serbia and focused more on ground-air threats (Serbia and Iraq)
-Learning how to fly with instruments and night vision goggles for night missions
-Started off with the T-34 to learn how to fly
-Flew the North American T-2 Buckeye
-Intermediate training aircraft
-Jet
-Moved onto training with the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk
-Single seat, subsonic carrier-capable attack aircraft
-After training with the T-34, T-2, and the A-4 he finally began training with the F/A-18 Hornet
-Most complex aircraft he had ever flown
-Capable of air-air and air-ground missions (the 'A' F/A means attack)
-Dual role aircraft
-Could hit targets and defend itself
-Has great capabilities as well as limitations
(00:14:25) Kosovo War Pt. 2
-First combat mission was flown out of Taszar Air Base, Hungary in May 1999
-It was a night mission with four other Marine jets attacking Serbian targets
-Took antiaircraft fire from Serbian forces
-Flew at 20,000 feet and antiaircraft fire loses its potency at 10,000 feet
-Serbs used SA-2 and SA-6 surface to air missiles
-Remembers one getting close to his jet
-Grew more confident and calm with each combat mission
-First combat mission lasted 42 minutes
-He held the rank of captain during the Kosovo War
�(00:17:03) Service Between Wars
-Promoted to the rank of major and served as a Flight Instructor in Pensacola, Florida
-Rejoined the Fleet as an Assistant Maintenance Officer
-Did six months of refresher training in the F/A-18
(00:17:35) Iraq War Pt. 1
-Deployed to Iraq and served on the ground as an air officer
-Directed air support with seven other Marine officers
-Coordinated with forward observers in the field
-Started deployment at division headquarters
-Reassigned to Regimental Combat Team 1
-Right after Blackwater USA contractors were attacked, killed, and burned on March 31, 2004
-Happened in Fallujah
-Regimental Combat Team 1 needed help during the First Battle of Fallujah
-Coordinated air support at night during the battle
(00:19:27) Combat Missions Pt. 1
-Flew over 100 combat missions during his time in the Marines
-Awarded a patch after his 100th mission and received nine air medals during his career
-Eventually stopped thinking about combat missions
-Probably flew around 150 combat missions during his career
(00:20:04) Iraq War Pt. 2
-Another duty in Iraq was with the Operations Department
-Made sure jets were flight ready, so the Marines could fly their missions
-Worked with good, serious, and dedicated Marines
-Controlled aircraft from a command post during the First Battle of Fallujah
-Wanted to be in the city with the Marines, but had to his duty at the base
-Insurgents attacked the base with rockets on a regular basis
-Just did his job
-Adjusted to getting attacked every day
-Became a regular part of life
-Decided he would either be fine, or he wouldn't
-The attacks came at random, and thus death became random
-As a pilot in Iraq he felt safe
-Flew at 10,000 feet above the battlefield
-Respected the helicopter pilots
-They took a lot of fire and were the workhorse of the Marines
-Remembers a Cobra gunship crashing inside the base during the First Battle of Fallujah
-Fortunately, the pilot survived the crash
-Had been friends with the pilot since David enlisted in the Marines
(00:25:06) Friendships in the Marines Pt. 1
-Had friends in the Marines since he enlisted in the Marines
-Made lifelong friends in the Marines
-Bonded during their service
-Maintains contact with many of the Marines he served with
-Children are graduating together
(00:26:20) Contact with Family & Downtime
-During the WESTPAC deployment computers and email were relatively new
-Mostly relied on telephones and used phone cards to call home
-Some Marines had laptops that were incredibly costly at the time
-Usually only had ten minutes of phone time
�-During his first deployment in Iraq he read a lot
-Younger Marines had portable DVD players
-Had internet centers for the Marines in Iraq
-Able to email family and do a primitive version of video chatting (like Skype)
-Mail was still a common, and popular way for Marines to communicate in Iraq
-His children sent him hand-drawn pictures
-Got care packages from his family
-Email was the most popular way of communicating with family
-Getting actual mail provided more of a morale boost though
-During WESTPAC he and his friends spent nights together
-A lot of Marines took classes
-Went sightseeing in the Asian countries
-On his first Iraq deployment he didn't have a lot of downtime
-Long days
-Worked 16 to 18 hours
-Worked and slept
-During his second Iraq deployment he had shorter work days
-Less Insurgent activity and hitting specific targets rather than full scale air campaigns
-Worked 12 to 14 hours each day
-Studied tactics
-Did a lot of reading on his second deployment
-Had no cable television in Iraq
-Family sent seasons of TV shows to the Marines so they could catch up
-Officers taught a variety of classes to the younger Marines
-One officer taught a guitar course
(00:31:34) Combat Missions Pt. 2
-Nothing that happened on combat missions ever surprised him
-Always knew what to expect during a mission thanks to good intelligence
(00:32:08) Different Cultures
-Learned about different cultures on his deployments
-Different priorities depending on different cultures
-Even “western” countries differed from the United States in significant ways
-Remembers talking to some Iraqis
-Just wanted to be left alone and live their lives in peace
-During the Kosovo War he and the other officers tried to study the conflict
-Learned that it was caused by centuries of religious and ethnic tension
-Strange to an American
(00:34:03) Combat Missions Pt. 3
-Most memorable operations were combat missions
-Saw the results of his missions
-Made him appreciate life more
-Wishes more Americans appreciated life or would take take action things they don't like
(00:36:00) Deployments Pt. 2
-Spent three and a half years overseas during a 22 year career in the Marines
-Did shorter deployments inside the United States
-Training missions out west
-First Iraq deployment lasted seven months, and second deployment lasted 12 months
-Longer deployments were harder on his family
-On the Iraq deployments he left in the fall and returned in the spring
�-Missed Thanksgiving, Christmas, and birthdays
-Fortunately, he got back for the births of his children
(00:38:36) Life after Service
-Teaches aviation now
-Had enjoyed being a Flight Instructor in the Marines
-Good feeling seeing Marines understand what he taught them
-Had planned on retiring from the Marines, then the September 11th Attacks happened
-Airlines weren't hiring and he decided to stay in the Marines
-Got a master's degree in education before retiring from the Marines
-Got a job at the West Michigan Aviation Academy as an instructor
-Hard to adapt to being a civilian
-Not as regimented
-Fewer expectations and a looser schedule
-Sets high expectations as a teacher and the students meet those expectations
(00:43:10) Friendships in the Marines Pt. 2
-Maintains contact with his friends from the Marines
-Some of them got jobs with airlines and offered him jobs as a commercial pilot
-He declined, because he doesn't want to be away from his family for long times
-One friend lives close to him
(00:44:29) Veterans' Organizations
-Not currently part of any veterans' organizations
-Too busy with life at the moment
-Interested in joining one, and might do it when he's older
-Part of the Marine Officers Association
(00:45:24) Reflections on Service
-Taught him that you can do whatever you want if you set your mind to it
-Taught him focus and discipline
-Learned about teamwork, organization skills, and leadership skills
-Marines taught him self-improvement and how to make himself a valuable part of an organization
-Make plans and set goals for yourself
-Shaped him as a person
-Marines were a valuable part of his life
-Never wanted to let down the people that depended on him
-Taught him to try, and even if you don't succeed at least you tried
-People want instant gratification without putting in effort
-Set short term and adaptable goals for yourself
-If one opportunity is lost then look for another one
-People are willing to help you if you look, and ask, for it
-Wouldn't change any part of his career in the Marines
-Made some lifelong friends and it was a defining part of his life
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_SebuckD1836V
Title
A name given to the resource
Sebuck, David J (Interview outline and video), 2015
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-05-17
Description
An account of the resource
David Sebuck was born in May 1969. He enlisted in the Marines during college (c. 1987) and completed Officer Candidate School while in college. After graduating from college he entered active duty with the Marines. He completed four and a half years of Flight Training at Naval Air Station Pensacola, Florida and at Naval Air Station Meridian, Mississippi. He joined the Fleet as an F/A-18 Hornet pilot and went on a WESTPAC (Western Pacific) training deployment and flew combat missions during the Kosovo War (c. 1999). He also did training missions inside the United States. He did two deployments during the Iraq War, serving on the ground helping coordinate air support during the First Battle of Fallujah on his first deployment and flew combat missions on his second deployment. After 22 years in the Marines he retired (c. 2009).
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Sebuck, David J.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Nurenburg, Garrett (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
United States. Marine Corps
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/x-m4v
application/pdf
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/044b00b05f92325eee1a022f06a5c1eb.m4v
c7db6cd52d7916f603e578de424371b9
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/527104cf07c2bb085c43dfd9279b0f2a.pdf
f4830b8d99df6e32444ec921921f6bb1
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Simeon Switzer
Iraq War and War in Afghanistan
(00:00:42) Early Life
-Born on August 10, 1985 in Bogota, Colombia
-He doesn’t know much about his early life
-Knows that he was transferred to several foster homes then an orphanage
-He was adopted on July 23, 1987 and became a naturalized U.S. citizen later that year
-He grew up in Jenison and then Grandville, Michigan
-His father was a physician and his mother was a social worker
-She left her job to homeschool him and his siblings through the tenth grade
-For eleventh and twelfth grade attended Tri-Unity Christian High School
-Graduated in June 2003
(00:02:10) September 11 Attacks
-He was in his U.S. History class talking about current events
-Remembers seeing his teacher get a text message in the middle of class
-The principal addressed the school over the intercom and said there were some plane crashes
-Shortly after the truth became evident classes were cancelled
-Students were gathered in the auditorium where there were a few large televisions
-Able to watch the news throughout the day of the events unfolding in the country
-The September 11 Attacks only reinforced his desire to go into the military
(00:03:47) College and Enlisting
-He had always been fascinated by American military history
-Grew up reading about American war heroes and past American conflicts
-In his senior year he began to talk with a Marine recruiter
-His father advised him to at least try college before he enlist in any branch of the military
-He attended college at Cedarville University, Ohio from 2003-2005
-Found it to be a great school, academically challenging, but difficult to adjust to
-Transferred to Grand Valley State University in Michigan
-At that point decided to look into his options concerning the military
-Talked to a friend that had completed basic training for the Michigan National Guard
-Went and talked to a National Guard recruiter who wound up being unhelpful
-He ultimately enlisted in the Michigan National Guard in May 2006
-He scored high on the ASVAB (military entrance exam)
-His high scores made him eligible for an intelligence position
-Want to serve in the infantry instead
-Felt that it was a more challenging and more rewarding specialization
-The ASVAB basically gauges a person’s intelligence and aptitude
-Finding out what you’re smart enough to do, and what you would be good at doing
(00:09:25) Basic Training
-Basic training began on July 12, 2006
-He flew down to Atlanta, Georgia then took a bus to Fort Benning, Georgia
-He was part of the 30th AG Reception Battalion for two weeks before starting training
-For basic training he was assigned to Bravo Company 1st/150th Infantry Training Regiment
�-At the beginning of training he had difficulty with the transition into military life
-He was out of shape (scored second to last on the physical examination)
-The mental adjustment was difficult for him as well
-The primary focus was to breakdown the concept of individuality
-Make individuals into soldiers, and thus part of a unit
-Difficult for him because he was stubborn, independent, and antiauthoritarian
-Trained with both small arms (rifles) and heavy (rocket launchers) weapons
-Received land navigation training and infantry tactics training
-Remembers that the temperature was 90oF, humid and all around exhausting weather
-They were told they would be facing 100oF+ weather in Iraq
-He trained with men who were going to go into active duty
-He was one of only sixty National Guardsmen returning to their home state
-At the time the active duty and Guardsmen had the same experience
-No one had been deployed, and thus there was nothing distinguishing
-Drill sergeants would pick on the National Guard recruits
-They were the only ones allowed to do that though
-If an active duty recruit picked on Guardsmen the drill sergeants would intervene
-All but one of his drill sergeants had been already been deployed
-He learned that deployments mattered in the Army
-Soldiers, and especially leaders, were respected if they had been deployed
-The one drill sergeant that had not been deployed was not respected
-Basic training lasted sixteen weeks
-He graduated from basic training on November 10, 2006
-Remembers that it was in the sixth week that he finally made the full transition
-He and the other recruits were sent to the “gas chamber” for poison gas training
-Entered wearing gas masks and then the chamber was filled with tear gas
-Ordered to remove gas masks and take a deep breath of tear gas
-While choking had to give name and social security number before leaving
-Because he was out of shape he was sent back in to do it again
-Second time wasn’t so bad
-At that moment realized he could complete basic training
-By the end of basic training succeeded in physical training, weapons training, and leadership
(00:20:22) Assignment to Charlie Company
-He returned to Michigan after completing basic training
-His first drill with the National Guard was in January 2007
-He joined his unit and was greeted by the staff sergeant of that company
-Told that deployment orders were probably coming, so expect it
-In February (or March) received their preliminary orders
-At the end of the summer of 2007 received official order
-His unit was Charlie Company was 1st/125th Infantry Regiment at the Grand Valley Armory
-Trained at Fort Custer and at Camp Grayling with them (both located in Michigan)
-It was the first deployment for half of noncommissioned officers and most of enlisted men
-In his platoon most of the senior leaders had been deployed already
-He and the rest of his unit went through normal training, but with a more intense attitude
-Training would last longer, they would work longer on a particular area
-Basically preparing for the reality of being deployed
�-They did at least eight to nine weeks of nothing but training before deploying
-They did three weeks at Camp Grayling, Michigan
-Two weeks at Camp Atterbury, Indiana
-Two weeks at Fort Custer
(00:24:47) Deployment to Iraq
-In November 2007 they received complete orders for a deployment
-On January 5, 2008 they had a farewell ceremony at the armory
-From the armory took buses to Gerald R. Ford International Airport
-Flew down to Fort Hood, Texas
-Stayed there for three months receiving more training
-Given a four day pass to see his girlfriend and family
-From Fort Hood flew to Bangor, Maine
-From Bangor to Sherman Island, California
-From Sherman Island to Kuwait City International Airport, Kuwait
-Took buses to Camp Bhuering, Kuwait
-From Kuwait travelled to TQ (Al Taqaddum), Iraq
-From TQ (Al Taqaddum) got transported to their base in Iraq
(00:26:10) Pre-Deployment Training at Fort Hood
-At Fort Hood had to qualify in several areas to be able to be deployed to Iraq
-Pass medical exams to make sure you were healthy enough to be deployed
-Had to qualify with weapons
-Had to complete language and cultural competency courses
-Received more land navigation training
-Received convoy security training
-He was part of the largest deployment in Michigan’s history
-The primary mission they were training for was to provide convoy security
-About one month before being deployed Charlie Company’s orders were changed
-Their new task was to be part of a Personal Security Detail (PSD) in Ramadi
-It was a shock to all of a sudden be shifted into operating solely out of Iraq
-Originally thought that they would be spending a decent amount of time in Kuwait
-He learned enough Arabic to help keep himself out of trouble with the locals
-Basic commands and basic greetings
-He picked up the language fairly quickly
-Led to him primarily being placed at checkpoints
-Most face to face time with locals and requiring high language competency
-The cultural competency training focused on introducing soldiers to Arabic culture
-Common cultural practices
-How they eat, and just how they live
-Learned certain customs
-Point with the whole hand, not just one finger
-Thumbs up is basically equivalent to “the finger”
(00:31:44) In Kuwait
-The best training that he felt he received was while he was in Kuwait
-Stayed in Kuwait for about two weeks
-Received live fire combat training
-Running “shoot houses”
�-Clearing a house in a mock drill with live ammunition
-Move and shoot training
-Remembers that Kuwait was miserably hot
-Part of being in Kuwait was getting adjusted to the Middle Eastern weather
(00:34:15) Getting Established in Iraq
-Went to TQ from Kuwait and late at night got picked up by Marines
-Given only one magazine of ammunition for the trip
-Travelled in flatbed trucks without substantial armor to Ramadi
-He was so exhausted that he wasn’t concerned about being attacked
-Wound up sleeping on the ride there
-When he and the rest of Charlie Company arrived Ramadi was in the middle of a sandstorm
-A sandstorm that would wind up lasting eleven days
-They had to find a place to sleep since arrangements hadn’t been made for them
-The Marines didn’t even know that they were coming
-C Company found a bombed out Iraqi barracks and got established there
-They had to scavenge cots just to sleep on, as well as other material
(00:39:09) Duties in Iraq
-For the first month they were all assigned to watchtower duty
-Had to stand guard for about ten to twelve hours
-After the first month started working with the Marines on the Personal Security Detail
-Going into Ramadi to escort key personnel
-NATO officials, businessmen, electricians, educators, etc.
-During PSD missions got to see the university and various business schools
-Provided security during transport of personnel and during their meetings
-Aside from doing PSD work they would also go on patrols in the city
(00:41:29) Ramadi, Iraq
-By the time he arrived in 2008 Ramadi had quieted down
-The city was a “complete dump”
-Ravaged by war
-Saw buildings riddled with bullet holes or half destroyed by bombs
-Poverty was rampant
-There were Coalition and Iraqi forces patrolling almost the entire city
(00:42:33) Conditions in Iraq
-Conducted PSD missions for the next eight months of his tour to Iraq
-It was a pretty calm deployment to Iraq
-Didn’t get into an active firefight and didn’t have to kill anyone
-Felt strange to be an infantryman, conditioned to fight, and then not have to fight
-Initially wanted to see some action
-Halfway through his deployment his attitude changed
-His roommate was in a convoy that suffered an IED attack
-Initially didn’t know if his friend was dead, alive, or alive and wounded
-It wasn’t because he was afraid to fight, but realized that it was serious
(00:46:56) Interactions with Iraqis
-Most of the interactions with Iraqi civilians were positive
-Remembers one Iraqi businesswoman who was incredibly grateful that the U.S. had come
-Ramadi’s mayor was corrupt and wound up embezzling $120,000 donated to the city
�-Only one example of corruption at the highest level in Iraq
-The Iraqi officials loved the U.S. because it meant they could get quick, easy money
-Iraqi women were the most appreciative because of the new opportunities given to them
-The overall consensus was that Iraq was better, but there was still a lot of corruption
-There were more opportunities for the youth and for the women of the country
-Saw that it was actually quite a peaceful country aside from the fighting
-There was not as much animosity from the Iraqis as there was from the Afghans
-An example of how calm the deployment was and how peaceful Ramadi was:
-There were only a few IED attacks in the city that didn’t cause too much damage
(00:50:43) Downtime and Contact with Family
-He never had a cellphone while he was in Iraq
-Mostly relied on email as his primary source of communication with home
-There was a computer building with ten computers and three phones for the soldiers
-He learned that his dog died while he was in Iraq
-Only time that he remembers crying while in Iraq
-He learned not to create communication habits
-For example: he would only call, or email once a week, or every other week
-He didn’t want his family used to hearing from him everyday
-Because if he got too busy and didn’t one day then they would worry
-He did write a letter every day and received mail every day
-There was a huge gym on base
-There was a small market on base
-Iraqis could sell their wares; you could buy Green Bean Coffee, and smoothies
-There were two mess halls on base
-One was nicer than the other
-The base had a 5.4 mile perimeter and there was a berm in the middle of the base
-You could go up on the berm and overlook the city when the sandstorms stopped
-At night you could go out and see more stars than you ever had in your entire life
-There was a small church on the base for the soldiers
-There was a small PX (general store) for tobacco, energy drinks, and sugary snacks
(00:55:20) Coming Home from the Iraq Deployment
-He got back to the United States on December 23, 2008
-They flew in to Fort Hood and stayed there for five days of processing
-Medical processing and getting readjusted to American society
-They had already done a lot of social readjusting while in Iraq
-He didn’t quite understand the profound effect a deployment could have
-Learned that your life had been paused while everyone else’s continued
-He took the winter and summer semesters of college off
-Went back to college for the fall 2009 and winter 2010 semesters
(00:59:27) Transfer to the Military Police (MP)
-Transferred to the 144th Military Police Company in April 2009
-In 2010 went to Military Police School
-After that went to a leadership school
-The decision to transfer to the Military Police came as a result of a fight in Iraq
-He had a fight with a platoon sergeant in Iraq which ruined his chance of promotion
-His girlfriend at the time was also in that MP unit which influenced his decision
�-Went to Fort Custer, Michigan for four weeks of MP School
-Consisted of learning how to properly fill out paperwork
-Infantry skills that he already knew from his time in Iraq
-MPs were starting to also be used in infantry roles in Iraq and Afghanistan
-It was strange to go from an all-male unit, to a unit that also had women in it
-The training was nothing new for him
-He also didn’t have to go through basic training again because of transferring
(01:03:50) Problems Adjusting to Civilian Life
-The major issues came after his deployment to Afghanistan
-After coming back from Iraq he didn’t have a lot of direction in life
-Had to get a job and go back to school, but from there didn’t know where to go
(01:05:02) Deployment to Afghanistan
-He joined the Military Police and was originally assigned to the 144th MP Company
-He decided to take a promotion that was offered in the 1775th MP Company
-The promotion also came with a deployment to Afghanistan
-Decided to take the deployment
-He wasn’t ready at the time to take on the full responsibilities of adulthood
th
-The 1775 received its warning orders and then its official deployment orders
-The 1775th was basically a collection of Military Police from all over Michigan
-Also had a lot of soldiers with combat experience, especially in his platoon
-His platoon sergeant and all the squad leaders had been deployed
-Left on January 27, 2011
-Prior to leaving went to Camp Grayling, Michigan for a couple weeks of training
-Left out of Pontiac, Michigan
-Flew from Detroit, Michigan to Fort Bliss, Texas
-Stayed at Fort Bliss for about one month going through deployment training
-Took new language and culture courses for Afghanistan
-Different languages and culture in Afghanistan
-Much stricter culture to work with in Afghanistan
-Flew from Fort Bliss to Kandahar Air Field, Afghanistan (KAF)
-While at KAF there was a mission change for the 1775th
-Most of the company would be sent to a nearby combat outpost
-His squad was selected for Personal Security Detail for the company commander
-Took a convoy to Combat Outpost Sheridan after landing at Kandahar
-Just as they got into KAF there was a rocket attack on the airfield
-For the first month in Afghanistan carried out PSD missions for the company commander
(01:12:10) Leave in Afghanistan
-After being in country for only one month he was able to go home for leave
-He was the first to go home for leave because he was the senior enlisted soldier
-He knew how to handle a deployment unlike the new soldiers
-He went home for about fifteen days and visited his family and girlfriend
-After returning to duty realized he had nine months of nothing but deployment
(01:12:55) Duties in Afghanistan
-During the first month in Afghanistan he didn’t do much
-Went into the city with the unit that his unit was replacing
-The unit they were replacing had been involved in the Abu Ghraib Incident
�-Got to know the area and got introduced to the Afghan National Police in the area
-As soon as he returned to Afghanistan from his leave the mission was changed
-His unit would link up with a Canadian Special Forces unit
-Train with them for a couple weeks
-Then be placed in charge of a Provincial Response Company
-Basically like an Afghan SWAT team
-First time that non-special force troops were going to do this
-His unit was moved to Combat Outpost (COP) Graceland
-A Canadian base
-It was a great base to be stationed at
-Used to be one of the bases for the Taliban’s head leader
-They had a “shoot house” to train in
-While at COP Graceland they were introduced to the Afghan National Police in the area
-Conducted a few police raids with them
-Stayed at COP Graceland for a couple weeks before being transferred again
-From COP Graceland moved to Forward Operating Base (FOB) Walden
-They were assigned a base, within the base
-FOB Walden was roughly the same size as the base at Ramadi
-There were Afghan forces stationed at FOB Walden as well
-His unit didn’t have to abide by the same rules as regular soldiers
-This was because of their affiliation with the Special Forces
-It was a more relaxed atmosphere at their base within a base
-There were times where he would have to get up at 3 AM to go on a raid
-Within fifteen minutes everyone was ready to go
-Conducted bilateral missions with the Afghan forces
(01:19:09) Conducting Raids
-A raid’s purpose was to aid the Afghan National Police if they got overwhelmed
-Raids also consisted of stopping and searching convoys
-Mostly focused on searching houses
-Most of the Afghan police were totally inept at the beginning
-After they trained the police they were at least somewhat competent
-Raids usually began before dawn and then they would go to the target
-Most of the intelligence they received for a raid was done by informants in the area
-During a raid a few teams would guard the house while one team would go into the house
-Both Afghan and American forces would enter the house to do the search or arrest
-Most of the time it would have been better to have just had U.S. troops do the raid
-Afghan police were more of a hindrance than a help
-Conducted raids for nine of the ten months that he was in Afghanistan
-During Ramadan NATO high command ordered a large amount of raids
-Terrible for the Afghans because it interrupted their holy holiday
(01:23:30) Dealing with the Taliban and the Afghans
-The main enemy during his deployment was the Taliban
-There was a Taliban leader near one of their Military Police substations
-They were not allowed to arrest him because he was friends with the local police chief
-There was a lot of corruption, a lot of laziness, and a lot of hatred for Americans
-While in Afghanistan learned that there were simply not the logistics for creating a democracy
�-Too many tribes that were too separated that had too much bad history with each other
(01:24:38) Training the Afghan National Police
-The majority of what they did with the Afghan National Police was training them
-He helped create the training manual that outlined the four week training course
-There was a cycle:
-Four weeks of training the Afghans
-Four weeks of being on standby with the Afghans (yellow stage)
-Four weeks of being ready to go on missions with the Afghans (green stage)
-Afghans were allowed to go home during the yellow stage, but then they wouldn’t come back
-There was a mix of police from the Kandahar area as well as men from outside Kandahar
-They tried to organize the squads so that tribesmen would be kept together
-There were multiple languages spoken, just in Kandahar, which created barriers
-Tribes also didn’t get along with each other which created problems
(01:28:40) Threats in Afghanistan
-2011 had the second highest kill rate for NATO forces in Afghanistan
-Highest percent of those killed were in the Kandahar Province
-It was very common for the internet to go down during a “blackout”
-Basically the military preventing soldiers from reading about a dead soldier
-The raids were inherently dangerous
-Involved searching the house of, or arresting, a known terrorist suspect
-Improvised explosive devices (IEDs) were a major threat
-There were organized attacks that would happen in the city
-Suicide bombers
-The Sarposa Prison Escape of 2011
-485 prisoners escaped during one night
-These prisoners just also happened to be high level terrorists
-Fortunately the 1775th never sustained any losses during that deployment
-The units that took losses were the ones in more populated areas, like the city
-Began to have to deal with “friendly” Afghan forces killing American forces
(01:32:18) Living Conditions in Afghanistan
-The living conditions that his unit had were good
-He was able to have his own room
-They had access to electricity and the internet
-While other soldiers had to live in tents they were able to have individual rooms
-He had better access to the internet
-He was able to call his girlfriend and family via Skype
-He had his own cellphone
-Made for easier communication with his soldiers in Afghanistan
-Totally impractical for calling home though
-It was expensive to make calls out of Afghanistan and it was terrible service
(01:34:47) Impact of Afghanistan Deployment
-When he got into the National Guard he wanted to make it his career
-During the deployment to Afghanistan learned more about the military and the war in general
-This caused him to change his mind and wanting to get out of the National Guard
-Once Afghanistan was over he wanted to get out and figure out the rest of his life
�(01:35:58) Coming Home
-On February 3, 2012 he was back in the United States
-The process of the end of the deployment began in early January 2012
-Regrouped with the rest of the 1775th at Combat Outpost Sheridan
-Went as a group to Kandahar Air Field
-Flew from Kandahar to Manas, Kyrgyzstan to Rammstein, Germany to Bangor, Maine
-Spent three days in Manas
-Finally landed at Camp Atterbury, Indiana
-From Camp Atterbury they were bused up to Pontiac, Michigan
-Spent six days going through the readjustment process
-Now included being shown what resources were available to them
-Getting registered for the Veterans’ Administration Healthcare
-He rode from Pontiac to Grand Rapids, Michigan with his brother
-He stayed at his cousin’s house for a week by himself while his cousin was in South Africa
-Felt good to be able to just be alone and by himself for a week
-In May 2012 his six year commitment to the National Guard ended and he did not reenlist
(01:39:14) Life after the War
-His transition back to civilian life was more difficult because his military career was over
-He had to make plans for a future that did not involve the National Guard
-He had some stress issues to deal with after the deployment to Afghanistan
-He was able to address those issues and deal with them
-His girlfriend and cousin played a large part in helping to deal with that
-There was a lot of stress in deciding what direction his civilian life would take
-He had a lot of experience, but not experience that would apply in the civilian world
-He went back to college at Grand Valley State University (GVSU)
-Received his bachelor’s degree in communication in 2013
-After that began working on his master’s degree in August 2013
-Public Administration with an emphasis on Public Management
-Expects to graduate in 2015
-After returning home he got involved with helping a number of local veterans’ groups
-Groups active in Kent County, Student Veterans of America at GVSU
-He has totally immersed himself in the world of helping veterans
-He wants a large focus of his future to be on helping veterans
-Believes that more needs to be done to help American veterans
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
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1914-
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
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Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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RHC-27_SwitzerS1699V
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Switzer, Simeon (Interview outline and video), 2014
Date
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2014-09-25
Description
An account of the resource
Simeon Switzer is a veteran of both the Iraq War and the War in Afghanistan. He was born in 1985 in Bogota, Colombia and was adopted by a Michigan family in1987. He grew up with his adoptive family in Jenison, Michigan then Grandville, Michigan. After college, he enlisted in the Michigan National Guard in early summer 2006 and was assigned to Charlie Company 1st of the 125th Infantry Regiment Michigan National Guard, and deployed with them to Iraq in early 2008. His unit carried out Personal Security Detail missions escorting NATO officials, electricians, businessmen, educators, and other high profile personnel through the city of Ramadi, Iraq. After his return, he transferred to the 144th Military Police Company, and then to the 1775th Military Police Company. He deployed with them to Afghanistan in January, 2011. During the first month he and his squad carried out Personal Security Detail missions in Kandahar, Afghanistan and then were transferred to Combat Outpost Graceland to work with the Canadian Special Forces on learning how to train the Afghan National Police. From there they were transferred to Forward Operating Base Walden where they helped carry out raids with and train the Afghan national Police until the end of the deployment in early January 2012.
Creator
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Switzer, Simeon
Contributor
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Smither, James (Interviewer)
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Subject
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Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
United States. National Guard
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans<
Language
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eng
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Text
Moving Image
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
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Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
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video/x-m4v
application/pdf
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fa4bde5ae4aeb47fd758455df7dc44ae.mp4
19a3107222c57337ab559c8b8e93f9fa
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/06677191aebedf9b558245ceb20e372a.pdf
dbe60239bef0b46348167004df0e16e1
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview
Desert Storm
Chris Petty
124 Minutes
(00:00:11) Pre-enlistment
Born October 1969 in Cedar City, Utah
o Moved to Salt Lake City and was raised there
Father worked at local copper mine
Mother was a waitress
Attended a Mormon church
Graduated High School in 1988
o Immediately moved to Las Vegas, Nevada
o Worked construction there for six to seven months
Made good money but had no goals, eventually decided to join military
o Joined the Army for wider selection of jobs, other option was Marines
(00:02:28) Enlistment and Basic Training
Enlisted in May 1989, Went to Fort Jackson, South Carolina for Basic Training
o Basic Training consisted of "Soldierizing," Breaking down recruits with little sleep, lots of
exercise, was very regimented, active schedule
o Many team oriented tasks to bring soldiers from all walks of life together as a team
Drill Sergeants were recently prohibited from striking the troops
o Biggest problems in training came from recruits who refuse to comply with team life
o Grouped into platoon for 12 weeks, troops become close, most made it through, 2 or 3
guys didn’t
(00:06:00) Advanced Training
Went to Fort Gordon, Georgia for Communications training
o Never used equipment he was taught with
Training lasted 2-3 months
Most learning was in classroom, working with radios, setting up antennae
Learned Morse code, never used it
(00:07:30) Airborne School
Consisted of lots of running in full uniform and jumping out of airplanes
�
Learned how to jump and land safely
Physical conditioning and training was very important
Trained to go anywhere in the world and drop in within 36 hours
Finished Airborne School in November 1989, waited two weeks for assignment
(00:11:10) Ft. Hood/ LRS Competitions
Was assigned to Special Operations
Was technically stationed in Fort Hood
o Arrived amidst Long Range Surveillance competitions throughout army to form a new
Long Range Surveillance Company
Bounced around a lot, was in Fort Camel, Hawai'i, Germany, short field ops 2-3 months
Chris' Airborne unit was the only one in Fort Hood, and they won the competition
Chris' company acted as eyes and ears for the Division
o Would be inserted behind enemy lines and perform recon, report back to Division
o 5-6 man squads, highly outgunned, essential to remain undetected, had to silence dogs
for survival
(00:16:30) Desert Storm
Company was deployed without warning, briefed about Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait on
the flight to Egypt
o Landed within 36 hours of invasion
Met with a 7th group Special Forces group meant to train them on operations in the area
o Entered Saudi Arabia and practiced methods of insertion using teams of helicopters and
Jeeps
o Saudi Government would watch radar and tell what would appear, goal was to find a
way to evade these
o Settled on a plan that involved a rolling stop, making it appear on radar like the
helicopters turned around without landing, had to jump out at high speeds
o Prepared this operation for five months
There was a compound on the outskirts of the city called Arabian Chicago Bridge and Iron
o Chicago based company, brought in trailers for troops to stay in
o People who worked at ACBI were laborers imported from Sri Lanka, brought interesting
culinary dishes
Chris' unit was kept away from the front lines, set up a base in the East with 18th Airborne corps,
was paired with Brainiac intelligence troops
(00:26:20) Crossing the Border
Was embedded with intelligence units, gathering data on the enemy, began crossing border into
Kuwait in October
o Would fly directly over enemy encampments
�
Searched for low spots between hills and would set down under camouflage and gather enemy
intelligence
o Operated under extreme heat, most of carry weight was water, operations lasted 2-3
days
Main function was to recon the terrain for future movements, was not informed of larger scope
of operations
After main US attack is launched, Chris' operations move further and further into Kuwait
Wore sterile uniforms, no markings, caused a few close calls and misunderstandings
One team in the company took some Iraqi troops prisoner, they were in such awful shape they
received medical attention while the team waited for extraction
Volunteered to stay back and clean out trucks after operation was over, then returned to Ft.
Bragg, redeployed to fight the War on Drugs in South American countries
(00:37:00) War on Drugs
Served in the new 18th Airborne Corps, acted as eyes and ears of the War on Drugs in South
America
Operated all over South America, Columbia and Honduras
o Not permitted to go into cities, kept in confinement to prevent bias of locals
o One mission in Honduras featured the team's heavy being dropped onto a cow
Mission was to watch villagers tending to drug fields
Soldiers knew to recognize cartel presence by the presence of vehicles
Tension was always high, soldiers were told if something went wrong, they were on a "training
mission"
Chris' team would often be attacked by spider monkeys, team took coordinated shots to
disperse them without making too much noise
Served with a West Point Lieutenant, let ants eat through his backpack to teach him a lesson
Chris' team was never compromised by locals
Performed these missions for about a year and a half, made maintaining a life at home very
difficult, Chris requested reassignment
(00:42:18) Reassignment
Assigned to a signal battalion, didn't really find a place there
o A military intelligence officer happened to be there and handpicked Chris to be his
Training Officer
As Training Officer in Ft. Hood, Chris was in charge of physical training, gas chambers, and the
rifle range, operated here for about 8 months
Sent back to Ft. Lee for supply school, consisted mostly of logistics, much less physical, lasted
about 2-3 months
Chris was granted a short leave, then deployed to Korea
�
(00:45:40) Korea
Flew to Korea on commercial flight from LAX straight to Korea, extreme jet lag from changing
international time zones
Assigned to 1-5 Infantry for battalion logistics, managed supplies for the entire battalion, only
got two weeks of training with the current crew, forced to learn the system quickly
Stationed at Camp Casey, largest northern post in South Korea
Korean Nationals with wealthy families would serve alongside American forces, Chris requested
to room with the Koreans so he can learn about their culture
o The Koreans didn't know much English, sometimes had selective understanding
o Korean Republic Army was rough on its soldiers, Chris witnessed a disciplinary beating
o Had a few issues but overall enjoyed serving with them
Chris traveled all over the country using the Korean transit system, visited 2000 year old
temples, experienced local cuisine, went scuba diving, ate freshly caught and cooked octopus
Opted to go to mountaineering school on an island off the coast rather than taking mid-tour
leave
Operated here for a year 1993-1994
Traveled in civilian clothes, most people still knew he was military, local Koreans seemed to like
the Americans
Went from Korea to the 82nd Airborne Division
(00:59:58) 82nd Airborne
82nd is America's reactionary force, built to go first, soldiers were in one of three cycles
o When on mission cycle, everything was packed and ready to go, had to keep officers
informed of location at all times, be able to return to base in two hours, could not drink
Didn’t know where they were going, most often were training drill
o When on support cycle, was responsible for loading trucks and preparing supplies for
those on mission cycle
o When on training cycle, would do field and range training, kept skills sharp at National
Training Center
o Average cycle was 1-2 months
Stayed with 82nd for about 6 years
Got married and had first son in this time
Attended Police academy for a semester, paid for by the Army, started working as part time
officer in sheriff’s department
Majority of people surrounding the base were veterans, most people were friendly toward
military
Chris never really served with female troops
Reader’s Digest wrote an article on the 82nd, spent a couple weeks with the troop, called them
Most Fit Alcoholics On The Planet
(00:07:17) (Timer has restarted) Getting out
�
Never deployed with 82nd, served as supply guy for the artillery, liked to play with the guns in
off time
Left Ft. Bragg and left the military
Chris didn’t really like Utah, Wife was from Jackson, Michigan so they moved there
Chris went to college full time under the GI Bill
o Earned his pilot's license
Was still in the Reserves at this time, helping with criminal investigations, worked one weekend
a month
o Much more relaxed environment
Chris always wanted to be a pilot and fly, required 700-800 hours of flight time, only had 100 or
so after flight school
o Best way to fill the gap was instructing, Pay was too little and the hours were dependent
on students and too inconsistent for Chris to pursue further
(00:10:05) Going Back In
Joined the ADSR, (Active Duty in Support of Reserves) in 1998-99, stayed for 5-6 years
o Became full time member of a transportation unit in Battle Creek, Michigan
Still a major shift from the 82nd Airborne mindset
Commander was a new guy, also a fireman, First Sergeant worked for a trucking company
Chris became known as the Black Market First Sergeant
o Had 10 years of experience and knew how things worked
o People came to him to get things done
o Taught the guys how to rappel, was one of two rappel masters in Michigan at the time
Worked closely with Battle Creek law enforcement, teaching the SWAT teams how to rappel
o Received an award from the police department
While working for the Sheriff’s department in Fayetteville, North Carolina, Chris was handpicked
for the special teams because of his training, even though he was a rookie
(00:14:35) Iraq
Chris’s Battle Creek unit was deployed to Iraq with the Striker Brigade, part of the large Task
Force, and assigned to an active duty battalion, worked with more contractors than soldiers
Deployed from Ft. Lewis, WA, got new equipment and refreshed training
o Chris secured the team better trucks than they were assigned
o Chris focused on getting everyone what they needed to go
Chris was sent with the Advanced Party to Kuwait, flew on Hawaiian Airlines, had layover in
Ireland, flew to Kuwait from there
Chris’s unit came from average walks of life and were able to set up their own AC and electricity,
were self-sufficient
Had to salvage armor and materials for their inadequate trucks
Much of the force was ready to go for months while waiting for Strikers to be finished properly
o Strikers were lighter vehicles, could get in more places on weaker infrastructure
�o
Drivers trained without large cages that were added in the field for RPG protection,
caused them to run into everything
o Strikers were spoiled by the Army
Deployed every-other with the Strikers, separated by twelve hours, got through most of country
unopposed
Iraq was much more battle-torn and scarred by war than Chris’ previous visit in Desert Storm,
Stayed mostly on the roads
At one point set up headquarters in a former mental hospital
Conflict was relatively quiet around Chris, unit was in Tikrit when Saddam Hussein was captured,
not involved in that operation though
Moved north to Mosul, the unit’s final destination, transport took fire on this journey, often
took mortar fire completely out of nowhere
Chris’ unit had 18 Iraqi’s working for them, got to know culture through them,
o Some were Kurdish, some were Iraqi, Chris saw the hatred and forced them to work
with each other, eventually they found their common humanity
o Some of the workers accrued bounties for working with the Americans
Chris consistently saw an extreme lack of humanity, no one kept records, many didn’t know how
old they were
Chris’ commanders were control freaks, networked to get his guys supplies
o Picked up a whole truck of air conditioners for his troops, got in trouble and got
grounded for it, whole truck got shot up and air conditioners were ruined
Chris’ unit took several casualties, Humvees were improperly armored
o Two men had close calls with death and had to be sent to Germany for mental therapy,
one eventually returned to duty
o IED’s were the biggest enemy, biggest killer
o Iraqi’s believed that large satellite dishes produced force fields around the truck,
attached trash bags to RPG’s to penetrate them, made rocket flight erratic
o Chris was fired at by an enemy taking cover behind a cow
Chris spent 16 months in Iraq, volunteered to stay behind an extra month
Chris’ only problem with Iraq was the disruptive effect it had on his family
o Troops had phone banks to communicate with family, Internet came toward end of
Chris’ stay, no cell phones
o Had big impact on Chris’ relationship with his son
The inhumanity of daily life in Iraq stands out to Chris the most
The strength of the insurgency was increasing during Chris’ stay, many were crossing the border
from Syria
Chris saw that Halliburton was stealing oil from Iraq and taking it to Kuwait, Americans were
guarding their trucks with their lives
Halliburton contracted out many positions that the Army was trained to do
Chris’ Iraqi workers told him stories of the insurgency kidnapping kids and threatening their
death to coerce parents into car bombings
One of Chris’ workers was captured and mutilated on video because he was working with Chris
(00:46:42) After Iraq
�
Chris spends a week in debriefing, making sure his physically and mentally okay, help acclimate
to civilian life, everyone is impatient to go home
o Many vets have driving issues, can’t drive at night
Chris begins working as an Army recruiter in 2005, Chris enjoyed the work and helping kids out,
hated the chain of command climate
Chris was top recruiter in MI in his first year
Chris encountered people avoiding him in uniform at Andrews University, met resistance from
the Dean in obtaining student records
o Talked to students about his philosophy on Iraq and reasons for being there
Many recruits joined for same reasons as Chris, searching for direction and something to do,
needed a future, some want to do their part for their country
Had issues with recruiting commander, who wanted him to change his successful recruiting
methods, Chris refused and won out because he outranked him
Chris was given station of choice until his retirement, chose to be sent to an MP company in
South Bend at one rank lower than he was in order to keep his kids in the same school district,
ended up being promoted to First Sergeant, one rank higher than he started
Retired from Army as First Sergeant of that MP company
Worked security at a nuclear plant, was mind-numbing work so Chris left
Chris’ wife works as a nurse, Chris takes care of kids and is going back to school for things he
enjoys
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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RHC-27_PettyC1911V
Title
A name given to the resource
Petty, Chris Allen (Interview outline and video), 2015
Date
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2015-12-15
Description
An account of the resource
Chris Petty was born October 1969 in Cedar City, Utah, and was raised in Salt Lake City. He graduated high school in 1988 and enlisted in the Army a year later. He received advanced communications training and completed Airborne School. Chris was soon assigned to a Long Range Surveillance Company which would become part of the 82nd Airborne Division. He operated with this unit performing reconnaissance in Kuwait during Desert Storm, and later in South American countries for the War on Drugs. Chris was reassigned to South Korea, were he operated supply and logistics for a battalion stationed there for a year. He was reassigned to the newly formed 82nd Airborne Division, where he served about six years. He left the military for a while to spend time with family, then went back into the reserves. Chris' reserve unit was deployed to Iraq in support of the Striker Brigade, where he served for 16 months. After Iraq, Chris worked as a very successful recruiter for a few years, then retired from the military as a First Sergeant of a Military Police Company in South Bend, IN.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Petty, Chris Allen
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Moving Image
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Format
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application/pdf
video/mp4
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/46327f45f3596b2e0c6661c41a1f91c8.m4v
ea0ca424b230f2262fa4d4edf5b14697
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/48ceb2f64815317b8eb8338a967d62bd.pdf
fb38100ea081b69256d3556ff26f348d
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
John Matt
Iraq War & War in Afghanistan
1 hour 24 minutes 42 seconds
(00:00:12) Early Life
-Born in Marquette, Michigan on October 1, 1984
-Grew up in Marquette
-His father worked for the city of Marquette
-In charge of city maintenance
-His mother worked in various secretarial positions in the hospital
-He had two brothers
-Attended Marquette High School
-Graduated from there in 2003
(00:01:05) Enlisting in the Marines
-After high school he did a lot of job hopping
-He was working as part of a security detail at a casino
-A friend, who had just completed Marine boot camp, came and visited him
-Encouraged John to go and talk to a recruiter
-He wanted consistency in his life
-Enlisted in the Marines in November 2005
-Prior to going to boot camp there was a preparatory period
-Getting physically prepared for boot camp with the help of a recruiter
(00:03:00) Marine Corps Boot Camp
-Took a van from Marquette to Milwaukee, Wisconsin to go to the MEPS
-Military Entrance Processing Station
-Various physical tests to see if you’re qualified to go into the military
-Took a plane from Milwaukee to San Diego, California
-There were drill instructors waiting at the airport
-Spent three hours standing at attention on the curb waiting for the busses
-In the meantime the drill instructors yelled at the new recruits
-First week of training was called “Hell Week”
-Get your head shaved, no sleep for thirty six hours after arriving, lots of waiting
-Basically getting indoctrinated into military life
-On the Friday of “Hell Week,” called “Black Friday” get assigned to training company
-Boot camp lasted thirteen weeks
-First month the focus is integration at San Diego
-Drills, learning about ceremonies, military protocol, and the history of the Marines
-Second month is at Camp Pendleton, California
-Qualifying with the M16 assault rifle
-Land navigation training
-Going out into the field and sleeping in a tent for a week
-Third month is back at San Diego and there is further training with drills and ceremonies
-Boot camp ends with “Parent Day” which is the graduation from boot camp
�-Parents from the area can see their sons and daughters graduate
-First time that you’re truly recognized as a Marine
-His father was a disciplinarian, so getting yelled at was not shocking, or foreign
-Learned that teamwork was key to survival
-Knew that in the future, if one man made a mistake, it could be fatal
-There were always those few who didn’t care, or didn’t cooperate
(00:09:08) School of Infantry
-His specialization was as an infantryman
-After boot camp went home for ten days of leave
-Returned to California and went to the School of Infantry at Camp Pendleton
-Two months of infantry training
-Working with a variety of weapons
-M240 machine guns, Mark 19 grenade launchers, .50 caliber weapons
-Getting the skills needed to be considered an infantryman
-Went on marches in the mountains
-Every Marine has to receive at least some kind of infantry training
-Even Marines in administrative positions receive a month of infantry training
(00:10:58) Assignment to the 3rd Battalion of the 1st Marines
-In April (or May) of 2006 he was assigned to the 3rd Battalion of the 1st Marines
-It took some adjusting to go into the unit that had fought in Fallujah, Iraq
-Had to prove himself before being fully accepted
-For the next year they focused on training to get ready to go to Iraq
-Spent three weeks of every month training in the field
-Receiving urban combat training
-He began to work with people who were from the Middle East
-Learning about the culture, customs, and the language
-Trained with them as stand-ins during urban training
-The goal was to not be culturally shocked when he got to Iraq
-The other part of it was showing that the Iraqis were humans too
-Feels that the media only focuses on the negative aspects of the people
(00:16:52) Deployment to Iraq
-The initial plan was to go with the 31st MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) to Thailand
-Train with the Thai military and other military forces in the area
-Before leaving saw his sergeant major in the “smoke pit” smoking cigarettes
-Learned that this meant they were probably going to Iraq, and not with the 31st MEU
-The second day that they were on the ship they were called to the flight deck
-Told that there was a change of plans and they were going to Iraq
-On the voyage over began target practice
-Challenging because of the motion of the ship
-They had a month and a half to prepare before arriving in Iraq
-Left the United States in summer 2007
-Most likely mid-May because he remembers celebrating the 4th of July in Iraq
(00:19:30) Arrival in Iraq
-When they arrived there was no clear route into Iraq
-Had to go with a four man team of combat engineers to clear the route of IEDs
-From there their mission was to find an abandoned building and get established in it
�-The ship arrived in Kuwait
-They had to wash dust and dirt off their equipment, vehicles, and clothing
-Kuwaiti culture demands that no foreign soil be on their soil
-Stayed in Kuwait for a week
-While in Kuwait given more cultural awareness courses
-Went to a place called TQ in Iraq (Al-Taqaddum Air Base west of Baghdad)
-Collected their ammunition and got assigned to a vehicle there
-Spent five days at TQ
-After TQ went to their area of operations in Iraq
-Operating near COP (Combat Outpost) Golden
-They paid some of the local elders to move out of their houses and live with family
-This allowed them to set up in the houses and have immediate access to the area
-They would go out on patrols and meet with the locals
-Operating in a largely uninhabited part of Al Anbar Province (western Iraq, bordering Syria)
-South of the city of Al Karmah
-They could see rockets being fired at night
-On the outskirts of an area where major fighting was occurring
(00:24:00) Interacting with Iraqis Pt. 1
-In their interactions with the Iraqis they would try to figure out what the people needed
-First step was to contact the village elder and talk to him first
-From there give him water, educational supplies, and any other supplies
-He would go and hand out the supplies to the families
-It showed that the U.S. was the supplier, not the savior
-Whenever they went out to meet with the Iraqis, medics came along
-Able to provide medical assistance the villagers wouldn’t have gotten otherwise
-The Iraqis reacted positively to the American presence, but they were wary of helping
-They wanted to help, but were afraid of what the Insurgents might do to them
-Some Iraqis helped regardless of what the Insurgents threatened
(00:27:40) Daily Routine in Iraq
-His days were organized in a 4x4x4 pattern
-Four hours of patrolling a square kilometer area
-Watch the roads and study the daily habits of the people
-Talk to the locals and gather any possible intelligence
-Figure out who needed to be talked to
-Either because they could help, or were a threat
-Four hours of guard duty at the house
-Go up on the roof and watch the neighbors to check for consistency
-Four hours of sleep
-The 4x4x4 pattern would be done twice a day
(00:30:16) Interactions with Iraqis Pt. 2
-One Iraqi man wanted to help, but wanted to be “arrested” to do it
-He didn’t want to look like he was willingly helping the Americans
-Told them to stage a fake raid on his house at night
-The situation seemed sketchy, so they went to talk with him during the day
-The man had left and his son was the only one at the house
-His son had three cell phones which was a sign of being involved with the Insurgents
�-The man never did come back to his house
(00:31:52) Enemy Contact in Iraq
-The worst contact they had with the enemy in Iraq was soon after they arrived
-Combat engineers were helping to build up their fortifications
-A vehicle-borne sniper came by and shot at them
-One of the combat engineers was hit through both lungs
-He walked over to see how the engineer was
-The man was already pretty much lifeless
-Drove home the selflessness of all military personnel
-A noncombatant gave his life for the combatants
-The combat engineer wound up dying en route to a larger medical facility
-The contact drove home the severity, and reality, of the deployment
-After that they didn’t take too many more casualties
-All wounded, no fatalities
(00:36:06) Living Conditions in Iraq
-At times they could go to their battalion’s base
-Living conditions still weren’t good there
-No air conditioning, and the base was made up of tents
-In the field they would live off MREs (meals ready to eat)
-Sometimes only ate one MRE a day
-Taking a real shower was nonexistent
-Learned how to use body wash and a bottle of water to get somewhat clean
-The average temperature every day was around 130oF
-Grew to appreciate the most basic things when he came home
-They would pay villagers $30 for a block of ice just to help deal with the heat
(00:38:38) Coming Home from Iraq
-The deployment to Iraq was nine months
-Did not receive any R&R while in Iraq
-Came home around Christmas/New Year’s Eve of 2008
-Boarded a ship in Kuwait and sailed home
-It was a chance to unwind and decompress before coming home
-Aboard ship they received reintegration classes
-Learning how to cope with being around family again
-At the time didn’t want to get lectured, but knew that it was necessary
-Learned about the signs of PTSD and how to deal with it
-Upon coming home, some men wanted to go back to Iraq because it was easier than civilian life
-In Iraq everything was provided, no bills to pay, just had to stay alive
(00:41:00) Leaving the Marines
-At first he wanted to stay in the Marines
-He had his wife and children to consider though
-If he stayed in there was a chance he would wind up going to Afghanistan
-Left the Marines and went to college and got a part time job
-Didn’t have insurance and had to rely on state aid
-Felt that that wasn’t good enough and wanted to pursue other options
(00:43:18) Enlisting in the National Guard
-Enlisted in the National Guard and was able to stay in college and keep working
�-Assigned to the 1431st Engineer Company in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan
-Volunteered to go help the 1433rd Engineers in the Lower Peninsula
-Wound up getting deployed to Afghanistan
-Joined the National Guard in March 2010
-Only five months after getting out of the Marines
(00:44:20) 31st MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit)
-After Iraq, but before the National Guard, went with the 31st MEU on a training mission
-Learning how to be a “boat company”
-Operating like a special operations unit off of a ship
-Went to Okinawa, Japan for a month
-Went to an island in the Philippines and trained with the Filipino Marines
-Had some encounters with the Filipino civilians
-Little kids would trade random items for ballpoint pens
-Learned a lot about jungle warfare from the Filipinos by going on patrols with them
-Went to Seoul, South Korea and trained with the Republic of Korea Marines
-Visited the city of Seoul
-Saw the Korean War memorials and got to see what the war was like for them
-Went to the Korean Demilitarized Zone
-Saw the Bridge of No Return
-If you start to cross it you have to cross to the other side
-Otherwise you will be shot
-Asked his officer if he could try to run it, but was not allowed
-Went back to Japan for another month and then flew home
(00:48:19) Training with the National Guard
-Went to Fort Crowder, Missouri for demolitions training
-Spent one weekend a month training with the National Guard
-The role that he trained for was to be a combat engineer
-Clearing roads of IEDs and other explosives
-They had a vehicle that could safely detect where explosives were
-They also had equipment for BIP: blow in place
-Destroy an explosive without the help of a bomb disposal team
-Also learned how to efficiently cut down trees by using explosives
(00:51:25) Deployment to Afghanistan
-He was deployed to Afghanistan in the summer of 2012
-Went to Kingsford Armory in the Upper Peninsula and took a bus to Grayling, Michigan
-Remembers being escorted to the Mackinac Bridge by the Freedom Riders
-Motorcycle group that will escort deploying soldiers and welcome them home
-Along the way people would come out and show their support as they passed through towns
-It was a morale boost to see local support
-Flew to Afghanistan
-Remembers that it was a long plane ride
-A lot of them took sleep medication to help the time pass
-Remembers getting fed a lot
-Stopped in Germany to refuel and to get a chance to stretch in the airport
(00:55:07) Arriving in Afghanistan
-Landed at Kandahar Air Field in southern Afghanistan
�-There was a major base there
-Received cultural integration classes at Kandahar
-Stayed at Kandahar for a couple weeks waiting for an assignment
-Got a chance to Skype with family back home
-It was totally different than what was available in Iraq in 2007
-Had access to a TGI Friday, soccer games, internet, ping pong, video games
-Meant to be a taste of the United States in Afghanistan
(00:56:50) Afghan Society
-Afghanistan was mostly nomadic, agricultural, and primitive compared to Iraq
-The cities were slightly more modern than the rural areas
-They had access to some modern amenities like a barber shop
(00:58:10) Assignment in Afghanistan
-He and his unit were assigned to Forward Operating Base Pasab near Kandahar
-Their mission was route clearance
-Securing roads and clearing them of IEDs and other explosives
-Making it safe for the infantry to go out on patrols during the day
-Felt hugely responsible for the safety of the infantrymen
-They would get up before dawn to go make sure the roads were clear
-The other part of route clearance was to make it safe for the locals to travel
(01:00:20) Enemy Contact in Afghanistan
-There were more IEDs in Afghanistan than in Iraq
-His unit had the highest discovery and detonation rate of IEDs
-By the time they arrived the terrorists were running out of money and starting to retreat
-The first couple months they were there they always had firefights during route clearance
-Eventually the firefights stopped and it became easier to do their job
-They lost one man very quickly
-He stepped on an IED and it detonated right beneath him
-It was the same as in Iraq, it made the situation very real again
-He knew how to deal with it after having experienced it in Iraq
-Went and talked to the new soldiers and made sure they were alright
-Still completed the mission for that day for the sake of closure
(01:03:42) Interacting with the Afghans and Coalition Forces
-The Afghan people had a larger sense of entitlement than the Iraqis had
-They would more readily ask for stuff from American soldiers
-Help from soldiers was expected
-If you didn’t have anything to give them they would turn against you
-Little kids would throw rocks at them
-During the deployment he saw a loss of public support happening in Afghanistan
-The Afghan National Army (ANA) became a threat at times
-Members of it wound up being double agents for the various terrorist groups in the area
-At the end of his deployment he started seeing people returning to the region
-Indicated that Afghanistan was normalizing and support was returning
-The ANA had a lot to learn still even at the end of his deployment (2013)
-They were not used to American military tactics
-Just wanted to charge into a situation guns blazing
-The didn’t understand protocol or Rules of Engagement
�-There were communication problems
-Didn’t know if interpreters were trustworthy
-Most of the time had to rely on body language to communicate
-At Kandahar Air Field you could meet the other Coalition soldiers
-Never carried out operations with them though
-Always made sure to guide the ANA soldiers and give them advice
-During house searches they had the ANA do the searches and act independently
-This allowed for the ANA to see that they were being given respect
(01:11:08) Living Conditions in Afghanistan
-Living in a forward operating base was much better than the living conditions in Iraq
-At the FOB he had access to a modern gym
-On the FOB they were able to eat real meals and not just MREs
-They had “Taco Tuesdays,” and steak and lobster on Thursdays
-Remembers they had a butter sculpture of the Last Supper
-Showed that the Afghans were starting to respect American culture too
-Served as a morale boost
(01:13:58) End of Deployment to Afghanistan
-Even by the spring of 2013 there was still a lot of work to be done in Afghanistan
-Around Easter 2013 they were preparing to return to the United States
-By the time they left Afghanistan the firefights had stopped and IEDs had gone down
-There was only one road that consistently had IEDs on it
-In their area, enemy morale had been broken and they were retreating
-Went to Kandahar Airfield for a few weeks
-Looked for ways to kill time
-Did end of deployment work
-Physical and psychological health evaluations
(01:16:42) Coming Home
-From Kandahar flew to Fort Bliss, Texas
-Processed out there
-Mostly allowed to just unwind and not have any military responsibilities
-Just had to report at 7 PM each night so they knew you were alive and well
-Went to the on base shopping mall, saw movies, and swapped war stories
-Took more reintegration courses at Fort Bliss
-After Iraq understood that they were necessary for readjusting
-From Texas flew back to Michigan and landed at Sawyer International Airport
-Formerly K.I. Sawyer Air Force Base
-Left Sawyer International on a bus and after only driving a few miles the bus broke down
-Still had to go to Kingsford Armory for the formal homecoming ceremony
-He was walking distance from his house though
-In the meantime the soldiers got off the bus and started making snow angels
-Got a new bus and went to Kingsford for the homecoming ceremony
-Got to be reunited with his wife and children
-Remembers that it was a much bigger homecoming than when he was in the Marines
-Reaffirmed his National Guard service, truly felt that he was fighting for his community
(01:21:15) Present Service
-Still does the one weekend a month, two weeks a year with the National Guard
�-He is currently involved with helping to train soldiers at Fort Custer, Michigan in urban combat
-How to properly breach and clear houses
-Incorporates both his infantry and combat engineer experience
(01:22:35) Reflections on Service
-Learned that there was nothing that he couldn’t handle
-He loved, and still loves, the spirit of teamwork in the military
-Helped him to learn that it’s okay to have a support network and to ask for help
-He still loves the sacrificial aspect of the military
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_MattJ1670V
Title
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Matt, John (Interview outline and video), 2014
Date
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2014-09-27
Description
An account of the resource
John Matt in 1984 in Marquette, Michigan. He grew up in Marquette and attended high school there and graduated in 2003. In November 2005 he enlisted in the Marines and attended boot camp at San Diego/Camp Pendleton and the School of Infantry at Camp Pendleton specializing as an infantryman. In the spring of 2006 he was assigned to the 3rd Battalion of the 1st Marines. In mid-May 2007 he and his unit left for an international training mission in Thailand, on the second day of sailing they were rerouted and deployed to Iraq. They arrived in Iraq in late June/early July 2007 and were stationed in a village south of the city of Al-Karmah near Combat Outpost Golden in the Al-Anbar Province. During his time in Iraq he went on patrols and took part in the humanitarian mission to improve the lives of the Iraqis. Around Christmas/New Year's Eve of 2008 he and his unit returned home. In 2008 and 2009 he went with the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit to Japan, the Philippines, and South Korea to carry out training missions with the allied forces in those countries. After leaving the Marines in late 2009 he enlisted in the National Guard in March 2010 and was assigned to the 1431st Combat Engineers Company in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan based out of Kingsford Armory where he could be near his wife and children. He volunteered to help the 1433rd Combat Engineers based in the Lower Peninsula and wound up getting deployed to Afghanistan in the summer of 2012. His unit operated out of Forward Operating Base Pasab helping to clear the road of improvised explosive devices and other explosive materials.
Creator
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Matt, John
Contributor
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Jones, Adam (Interviewer)
Subject
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Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
United States. Marine Corps
United States. National Guard
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Moving Image
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
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Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
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video/x-m4v
application/pdf
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/64cc7151ae3a3318bb1dfdc6eca8bc3c.m4v
2061b7b0928ebda60a833a8cd767b651
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e2eaddbbdc1705305a7abf9b424a07b4.pdf
68019f43dd3af15b9003b9737c73ec8f
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
Jacob Mol
War in Iraq and War in Afghanistan
1 hour 32 minutes 9 seconds
(00:00:39) Early Life
-Born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on December 15, 1986
-Lived on the West Side of Grand Rapids
-Had four brothers and a half sister
-Moved north to Cedar Springs, Michigan
-Graduated from Cedar Springs High School
-Father worked as an electrician all over the United States
-Jacob traveled with him
-Mother stayed at home, but also did dental assistant jobs
-Worked various jobs after high school
-Decided to forgo college because of the cost
(00:02:28) Enlisting in the Marines
-Decided to enlist in the Marines in May 2006
-Sworn in on September 11, 2006
-Part of a delayed entry program because he wanted to work on aircraft
-Had been in the Young Marines when he was younger
-Taught how to march and be in formation, values, and leadership skills
(00:04:08) Basic Training
-Sent to San Diego for basic training in February 2007
-It was cold at night and hot during the day
-Boarded buses and taken to the base
-Drill instructors got on the bus and started screaming at the recruits
-Got off the bus and stood at attention waiting for further orders
-Gathered gear, had their heads shaved, and moved quickly
-Waiting to get sorted into their training unit
-Arrived at 10 PM
-Woke up the next day at 7 AM
-Kind of expected the craziness of the first few days
-Knew that if he followed orders he would be fine
-Part of Platoon 2134 of Fox Company
-Had one senior drill instructor and three other drill instructors
-Three of the drill instructors were veterans and one of the drill instructors was new
-Didn't know much about any of them
-Phase One of basic training lasted a month
-Starting physical training
-Taught Marine Corps history
-Received First Aid training and learned the basics of rifles
-Phase Two of basic training was at Camp Pendleton, California
-Received Field Training while at Camp Pendleton
-Did two weeks of rifle training
-One week of classroom work
-Some men had never handled a rifle before in their entire life
�-After a week of class they spent a week on the rifle range
-Completed rifle training with qualifications
-Did outdoor training at Camp Pendleton
-Did “the Crucible”
-Three or four days of night navigation training
-Obstacle courses
-Completed by running up the hill called “Reaper” and getting dog tags
-Trained with the M16A2 rifle
-Had iron sights
-Accurate up to 500 yards
-For night navigation training they were given a flashlight, compass, and a map
-Worked with a team of five men and tried to avoid getting “captured”
-His fire team did not get “captured”
-Phase Three focused on physical training and uniform protocol
-Taught how to take care of their uniforms
-Did swimming qualification
-Martial arts qualification
-Trained with a lot of men from California, Texas, Ohio, and Michigan
-There were a lot of Hispanic recruits
-Befriended a lot of the men he trained with
-There were no women training with them at San Diego
-Only women he ever saw there were the Navy corpsmen doing medical work
-Basic training lasted about three months, give or take a week
-Assigned Marine Occupational Specialty 6213: fixed-wing aircraft mechanic
(00:15:23) Marine Combat Training
-Went home for two weeks of leave
-Spent one week with his family
-Spent another week working with recruiter
-Getting new recruits ready for basic training and trying to get people to join
-Sent to Camp Pendleton for Marine Combat Training
-Abbreviated version of the School of Infantry that Marine riflemen went through
-Advanced rifle training
-Learning how to move forward while firing at targets set at varying distances
-Trained with different weapons
-M240 grenade launcher, .50 caliber machine gun, other larger weapons, and hand grenades
-Received more land navigation training
-One day of Day Navigation
-Had to move from one point to the next while staying concealed
-One night of Night Navigation
-More difficult because they had to move through the mountains
-Pretty much everyone passed Marine Combat Training
-Men only got held back due to medical reasons
(00:20:10) Engine Training
-Sent to Pensacola, Florida for “A School”
-Taught how to work on aircraft engines
-Three months of classes
-Similar to a college course
-Taught by civilian and Navy instructors
-Learned about jet engines, helicopter engines, and turboprop engines
�-The higher your class ranking, the more choice you had about what aircraft you would work on
-He was #2 in his class
-He selected EA-6B Prowler work
-The Prowler was a fixed-wing jet aircraft derived from the A-6 Intruder
-Used extensively in the Vietnam War
-Used for electronic warfare
-Jam radar, conceal aircraft, and pick up enemy communications
-Core of most of the aircraft was 20 to 50 years old
-Fun to work on
(00:24:53) Prowler Training
-Sent to Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, Washington to learn how to work on the Prowler
-Part of a Marine Corps and Navy joint training squadron
-Learned about the fuel system, engine, oil system, and landing system of the aircraft
-Taught how to do flight inspections
-Trained there from October through November 2007
-Able to go home for Thanksgiving 2007
(00:26:47) Downtime during Training
-Allowed to go off the base when he was at Pensacola
-No vehicles allowed
-When he was at NAS Whidbey Island he was allowed to have a car
-His cousin let him borrow his car, so he could go into Seattle
(00:27:47) Stationed at Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point
-Assigned to Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point, North Carolina
-Marine Tactical Electronic Warfare Squadron 3 (VMAQ-3)
-VMAQ-3 was getting ready to deploy in 20 days, so he was swapped into VMAQ-2
-Learning how they worked in a VMAQ
-VMAQ-2 was basically the same as VMAQ-3 just with a different command
-Squadrons were on a six month rotation at the time
-The squadrons worked together at Cherry Point
-He was with VMAQ-2 for a few months
-Transferred to VMAQ-4 for a month
-Transferred back to VMAQ-3 when they got back from their deployment
-Because he moved between squadrons so much, he received some training multiple times
-For example, he had to go through gas chamber training multiple times
-This involves putting on a gas mask and other gear to protect from WMDs
-You then go into a room that is sealed and filled with tear gas
-Once the room is full, you remove your gas mask and inhale the gas
-The objective is to give you an idea of what a gas attack would be like
(00:32:22) Deployment to Iraq & Arrival in Iraq
-Deployed to Iraq in August 2009 with VMAQ-3
-Orders for Al Asad Air Base in Iraq
-Didn't know what to expect going into Iraq
-They were on the south side of the air base
-Lived in huts made out of shipping containers
-Had doors, windows, and air conditioning
-Had a gym, chapel, and a general store on the base
-Before deploying they went to a base in Nevada for pre-deployment training
-Spent a month there getting used to a desert climate
-Got used to working 12 hour shifts
�-He always worked at night
-Didn't receive any cultural training
-Wouldn't have much contact with the Iraqis anyway
-Left the United States on C-130s and flew to Germany
-Spent a day in Germany
-Took a commercial airliner to Kuwait and boarded C-130s again to fly into Iraq
-First thing he noticed about Iraq was how hot, dry, windy, and sandy it was
-Daytime temperatures averaged at 120 to 130 degrees Fahrenheit
-Didn't deploy as a whole squadron
-Prowlers and a forward unit went over two weeks earlier than the rest of the squadron
-Ironically, Jacob's group got there earlier because one of the Prowlers got delayed
-When they arrived, VMAQ-1 was still there
(00:38:17) Stationed at Al Asad Air Base
-Had concrete bunkers that the aircraft could be stored inside
-Huge blast doors on the outside and dual tunnels that led out onto the runway
-VMAQ-1 had a similar bunker about an eighth of a mile down the runway
-Nice to have an enclosed space to work in
-Out of the sun and safe from small arms fire or mortars
-Never attacked when he was in Iraq
-They were about 100 kilometers west of Baghdad
-Basically in the middle of nowhere
-Built around an oasis
-Knew almost nothing about the Iraq War or Al Asad Air Base's history before arriving
-Heard stories about Saddam's treatment of the Iraqi people
-Knew Al Asad had been some kind of leisure and sports compound during Saddam's regime
-Note: Originally named Qadisiyah Airbase and built during the 1980s
-Worked from 5 PM to 7 AM, plus or minus a half hour
-Had evening meal as breakfast then briefed on what needed to be done during the shift
-Usually sent out aircraft on night missions
-Did an inspection of the Prowlers then got them ready to fly
-Sent out two aircraft at a time
-If there was nothing else to do then they could just sit around for the remaining six hours
-Had internet and computers to pass the time
-Able to get their work done at a relaxed pace, most of the time
(00:44:56) End of Deployment in Iraq
-Deployment ended in February 2010
-Last Marine air unit in Iraq
-They were relieved by the Navy
-Worked with the Navy personnel when they came to help shut down the air base
-Had to gather up any left over Marine gear
-Had been in Iraq for seven or eight months
(00:46:30) Technical Problems in Iraq
-Had to do oil changes on the aircraft almost every time they came back from a mission
-Very repetitive task
-If they didn't have to do an oil change then they still had to do an oil inspection
-Basically making sure there wasn't too much dust and sand in the oil
-Air frames of the aircraft always broke because they were so old
-Washed the Prowlers every couple days to keep them dust free
-Also made sure they stayed dry so no dust or sand could stick to the plane
�(00:49:20) Morale in Iraq & Contact with Home
-Morale was affected due to the length of the shifts
-Noticed that halfway through the deployment tensions flared
-Near the end of the deployment everyone started to calm down again
-Worked out at the gym to deal with frustration
-Slept a lot to pass the time
-Wore headphones when he slept and listened to classical music to drown out the aircraft noise
-Able to Skype his family once a week
-Chance to let them know that he was okay and how life was in Iraq
(00:52:19) Returning to Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point
-Left Iraq in February 2010 and got 20 days of leave
-Returned to Michigan and went to the Upper Peninsula with his family to go snowmobiling
-Returned to Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point
-Took the Prowlers apart for in depth inspections and to clean their components
-Some of the aircraft needed their engines swapped out
-More in depth maintenance after returning to the States than deploying to Iraq
(00:54:23) Deployment to Afghanistan
-There was a rumor they would be deployed to Japan for a shorter, three month deployment
-A month later their orders were changed to Afghanistan
-Did pre-deployment training in Yuma, Arizona
-Different because he had a higher rank and there were new men in the unit
-VMAQ-3 received another Prowler and about 30 new Marines to maintain said Prowler
-Passed through Germany, again, en route to Afghanistan
-Flew from Germany to Kyrgyzstan
-Got to spend the day there
-Interesting place
-A lot of vendors selling old Soviet gear
-He bought $200 worth of Soviet stuff and sent it back home
-Boarded a commercial airliner and flew to Bagram Air Base, Afghanistan
(00:58:20) Stationed at Bagram Air Base
-He was stationed at Bagram for his entire deployment in Afghanistan
-Bagram was huge compared to Al Asad
-His unit was quartered next to the emergency evacuation helicopters, C-130s, and the hospital
-More of a sense that he was in a war zone
-Every two or three days militants shot rockets or mortars at Bagram, usually at 2 AM or 9 PM
-Came out of batteries in the city or in the hills near the base
-Most of the time the rockets hit nothing, but when they found their mark they caused damage
-When they took mortar/rocket fire they went into bunkers scattered around the base
-Concrete enclosures capable of taking a direct hit
-In retaliation, attack helicopters went out to search and destroy the enemy batteries
-Missions took about an hour, which meant they had to sit in the bunkers for an hour
-Worked day and night shifts at Bagram
-Noon to midnight for half of his deployment then midnight to noon for the other half
-Never worried about small arms fire
(01:02:09) Living Conditions at Bagram
-Sleeping arrangements were worse at Bagram than in Iraq
-Slept in wooden shacks with screen windows
-City of Bagram was a quarter mile away, but they were not allowed to go into the city
-Bagram was primarily used as an R&R base for soldiers in Afghanistan
�-Had cheerleaders and comedians tour the base to entertain the troops
-He didn't go to those shows because he felt the combat troops needed them more
-Had a bazaar on base that acted as a sort of local shopping center
-Remembers they had furs for sale that were illegal to buy in the United States
-There were Afghan food vendors and a Pizza Hut
-The chow hall (dining hall) at Bagram was better than the one at Al Asad
-Wider variety of choices
(01:06:16) Security in Afghanistan
-Never went off base
-There was a school on the base for Afghan children, so he was able to visit that
-Remembers the children were friendly and wanted candy
-During the last two months he was placed on security detail because he hurt his back
-Gave him a chance to see the security measures put in place on their end of the base
-Had a guard shack with a rotating security camera
-Marine(s) patrolled the area near the guard shack with Air Force guards in towers
-Had T-walls (steel-reinforced concrete walls topped with razor wire)
-Also had old Soviet landmines scattered around the perimeter of the base
(01:09:10) End of Deployment in Afghanistan Pt. 1 & Getting Wounded
-On the last day in Afghanistan he got wounded
-He had everything packed up except for his rifle
-Shells started landing near the building he was in, so he ran outside toward a bunker
-Once inside someone pointed out to him that his arm was bleeding
-He had taken a small piece of shrapnel in his arm
-Closest encounter he had with combat
(01:11:29) Progress of War in Afghanistan
-Friend told him they had taken more mortars following the execution of Osama bin Laden on 5/2/2011
-Learned that VMAQ-3 had sent out aircraft to support the raid
-The bombardment in which he got wounded led to a delay in leaving Afghanistan
-Needed to repair the holes in the runway
-Knew something big happened whenever there was a lot of activity at the hospital
-Saw men missing arms and legs
-Able to watch the news, but he usually knew more about what happened than the news talked about
(01:15:36) End of Deployment in Afghanistan Pt. 2 & End of Enlistment Pt. 1
-Came home in May 2011
-Enlistment was for five years, so that was coming to an end as well
-Placed in an old C-130 hangar at Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point
-Did not lose any aircraft on either deployment
-Only one aircraft got hit by enemy fire in Afghanistan and it was a fairly easy repair
-When he got back to the States in May he had nine months left in his enlistment
-Could have gone on another deployment, but the rotation schedule changed
-Prowlers were being replaced by the EA-18G Growler (variation of the F/A-18F Super Hornet)
-He felt the Prowlers were better for electronic warfare because they were simpler aircraft
-EA-18Gs had problems with jamming their own electronics
-Decided at the beginning of his enlistment not to make a career out of the Marines
-Wanted to serve his country, serve his family, and qualify for the GI Bill
(01:22:00) September 11, 2001
-He was 15 years old when the September 11th Attacks happened
-Remembers being at school, it was 9 AM, and he was in health class
-Teacher got a call and turned on the news
�-Watched in real time as the jet hit the second World Trade Center Tower
-Feels that it had a little influence on his decision to enlist
-Wanted to do his part to defend his country and his loved ones
(01:23:52) End of Enlistment Pt. 2
-Not much encouragement for him to reenlist
-Military was downsizing at the time
-Iraq War was coming to an end
-War in Afghanistan was slowing down
-Discharged in February 2012
(01:24:42) Life after Service
-Moved back to Michigan and moved in with one of his brothers
-Tried to get a job working on aircraft, but nobody was hiring at the time
-Got hired at the plastics factory that his brother worked at
-Worked there for two months
-Hired by Loomis Armored (a cash handling company)
-Applied to Grand Valley State University in mid/late 2013
-Majored in electrical engineering
-Feels the Marines prepared him for hands-on work, taught him discipline, and multitasking
-Also made him a little too picky when it came to irrelevant details
-Wasn't too hard for him to readjust to civilian life
-Didn't want to be around too many people for a while
-Took a year to return to his “old self”
-Even after a year school came as a bit of a shock
-Noticed a definite gap between the civilian students and the veteran students
-Hard time relating to the younger students
(01:31:24) Reflections on Service
-Feels that his time in the Marines made him more responsible
-Changed him for the better
-Appreciates everything that he got out of his time in the Marines
-Enjoyed the work he did in the Marines and the people he worked with
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_MolJ1778V
Title
A name given to the resource
Mol, Jacob (Interview outline and video), 2015
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-18
Description
An account of the resource
Jacob Mol was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on December 15, 1986. In May 2006 he decided to enlist in the Marines and was sworn in on September 11, 2006. He began basic training in San Diego in February 2007 then received Marine Combat Training at Camp Pendleton, California. He was designated as a fixed-wing aircraft mechanic and trained on aircraft engines in Pensacola, Florida. He graduated second in his class and volunteered to work on EA-6B Prowlers. He received training with those aircraft at Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, Washington then joined Marine Tactical Electronic Warfare Squadron 3 (VMAQ-3) at Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point, North Carolina. He deployed to Iraq in August 2009 and was stationed at Al Asad Air Base until February 2010 then deployed to Afghanistan in fall or winter 2010 and was stationed at Bagram Air Base until May 2011. He completed his enlistment at Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point and was discharged in February 2012.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Mol, Jacob
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
United States. Marine Corps
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/x-m4v
application/pdf
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1222973ab43c85a83928248e2b67c531.m4v
77f7e90de6dac0f215f50237d48758f3
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3610982dce5a5086a5ef3c0b0ec2ceec.pdf
a3ea90da1764f58f93593e05fa4dedb9
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Gary Doublestein
Vietnam War; Cold War; Iraq War; War in Afghanistan
1 hour 56 minutes 6 seconds
(00:00:10) Early Life
-Born on November 15, 1952, in Plainwell, Michigan
-Grew up on a farm in Wayland, Michigan
-Attended high school there
(00:00:37) Enlisting in the Navy
-Everybody was very aware of the draft during the Vietnam War
-He wanted to serve his country, and do it in the Navy
-He wanted the experience that the Navy offered, and his father had served in the Navy
-Didn’t want to kill anyone, so he wanted to enlist as a hospital corpsman
-Needed his mother’s permission, because he was only 17 years old
-Recruiter tried to dissuade him from becoming a hospital corpsman
-He would have gone into the field with the Marines
-Mother refused to sign for him if he pursued being a hospital corpsman
-Agreed to go in as an aviation recruit to repair aircraft
-Took an aptitude test at the start of basic training
-Signed up to be a hospital corpsman
(00:03:30) Basic Training
-Reported for basic training in June 1970
-Graduated high school on June 6, 1970, and reported for duty a couple weeks later
-Went to Naval Training Center San Diego, California
-Took his physical in Detroit
-Given a choice between Great Lakes Naval Station or Naval Training Center San Diego
-Chose San Diego so he could ride on an airplane
-Saw a lot of men trying to get out of service
-Some were extremely happy to be classified as 4-F (unfit for service)
-He saw the Navy as an adventure and a chance to pay for college
-Landed in San Diego and was picked up by a bus
-Upon arrival at the base, drill instructors immediately started screaming orders
-Letting recruits know that the drill instructors were in control
-Placed in a transit barracks for about three hours of sleep
-During processing, the recruits got their heads shaved and were issued uniforms
-Purpose of basic training was to break down the individual and rebuild as a sailor
-Consisted of two, seven week-long phases
-First seven weeks focused on the basics of becoming a sailor
-Marching, knot tying, history, rules and regulations, folding clothes, and inspections
-At the time, he didn’t understand the purpose of the discipline, but expected it
�-At one point during the first seven weeks, he got called to go to the chaplain’s office
-Reported to the office and his brother was there waiting for him
-He was doing basic training at the same time
-Chaplain gave them four hours to go off base and visit San Diego together
-During the second seven weeks, the recruits were treated with more respect
-Introduced to potential jobs in the Navy
-Joined the “Blue Jackets Choir”
-Added two weeks to basic training
-Went off the base for performances
-Became the admiral of the choir
(00:13:46) Hospital Corps School
-Went to Hospital Corps School at Balboa Naval Hospital in San Diego
-14-week course
-Learned the basics of first aid and some more advanced medical skills
-Akin to advanced EMT training
(00:15:00) Stationed at Camp Pendleton Pt. 1
-Requested several possible duty stations on the East Coast
-He was sent to Camp Pendleton, California
-Disappointed at the time, but it worked out well for him
-Assigned to the Camp Pendleton Naval Hospital
-After six months, he met his future wife, a Navy nurse
-She was an officer, and he was an enlisted man
-They worked together for a while
-Took a long time to muster up the courage to ask her on a date
-Dated for three months
(00:18:16) Deployment to Vietnam & Getting Married
-Received orders to go to Vietnam with the USS Kitty Hawk
-Decided to ask his girlfriend to marry him, and she said yes
-He was only 19 years old at the time
-Got married in Whittier, California, and had a short honeymoon
-Believes that he got orders for Vietnam as punishment for fraternizing with an officer
(00:21:14) Stationed at Camp Pendleton Pt. 2
-Stationed at Camp Pendleton for a year-and-a half
-Worked on the surgery floor helping with post-op care
-Learned how to use IV catheters because they were new at the time
-Worked in the emergency room
-Treating marines because of some of their antics
-Attached to 1st Fleet Service Regiment
-Manned a clinic and worked with a doctor sometimes
-Usually worked on his own
-Thought he would be sent to Vietnam with the Marines
�(00:23:03) Assignment to the USS Kitty Hawk
-The USS Kitty Hawk was an aircraft carrier
-Decommissioned in 2009
-Carried 100 planes and 5,500 personnel
-Excited to go aboard ship until he did
-Noisy, hot, humid, smelly, and tedious
-Joined the ship in the Philippines
-Flew from San Francisco to Clark Air Force Base, Philippines
-Took a bus down to Subic Bay and waited a couple weeks
-Took a helicopter carrier out to the Kitty Hawk, then flew over
-It was extremely hot and humid in Subic Bay
-Never visited Olongapo City near Subic Bay
-He was just married and didn’t want to risk getting an STD
-Never met anyone bound for the Kitty Hawk
(00:25:50) Service on the USS Kitty Hawk
-Assigned to the medical department
-Initially assigned to the medical records section, and fought to get out of it
-Reassigned to the lab to help with lab work
-Stood watch in the emergency room
(00:26:57) USS Kitty Hawk Riot
-Near the end of his first cruise, there was a race riot on the Kitty Hawk
-In his opinion, it was not solely race motivated
-Cruises were supposed to last six months, then return to the United States
-Instead, they received orders to go back to Vietnam
-Sailors were extremely angry and frustrated with the decision
-Came to a head when a black and white sailor got into a fight
-The fighting spread through the ship
-He treated the crewmen injured in the fighting
-One man had to be medically evacuated due to severe head injuries
-The Marines rounded up everyone except for the corpsmen
-Placed them on the hangar deck
-Acted as the shipboard police
-He felt the Marines were self-policing
-They wouldn’t have tolerated dissent in their ranks
-He treated all crewmen regardless of race
(00:30:14) Combat Operations
-They operated in the South China Sea, about 50 – 100 miles off the South Vietnamese coast
-Had flight operations day and night
-Always heard the roar and shudder of jets taking off and landing
-Longest time on line was 120 days
-Conducting combat flights in 1972
-Wasn’t aware of the major offensives taking place in Vietnam
-Just followed orders and tried to ignore being hot and miserable
�-Operating from April 1972 to November 1972
-Never a day on the line without flight operations
(00:33:05) Casualties on the Kitty Hawk
-One of his first memories was hearing about a flight crewman getting sucked into a jet engine
-Nothing they could do, because there was very little to send home
-Some flight crewmen got blown off deck
-A resting cable snapped and a cut flight crewman’s legs off
-If the crewmen were blown off deck they usually weren’t recovered
-12-story drop to the ocean, which was usually fatal
-If the fall didn’t kill you, the sharks would have
-One man that went overboard was rescued
-Ironically, he threw himself overboard
-Made Section 8 (mentally unfit for service)
(00:35:57) Life on the Kitty Hawk Pt. 1
-He never felt the ship move except in typhoons
-The gravity was thrown off, and felt like he was taking a deeper step
-Never got seasick
(00:37:25) Contact with Home on the Kitty Hawk
-Wrote letters every day, but it took weeks to receive mail
-Often got a bunch of letters at once
-Tried to read them in order and respond in kind
-Called his wife on time in the Philippines
-Had to wait eight hours and call her at 3 a.m.
(00:38:56) Life on the Kitty Hawk Pt. 2
-Had typical shifts on the Kitty Hawk
-Worked sick call
-Had day shifts and night shifts
-There were galleys at the fore and aft (front and back), that operated at all hours
-He wound up eating a Milky Way and a Coca Cola for breakfast instead
-Worked in the lab
-Usually got off work around 5 or 6 p.m. for the day shifts
-There were movies at night, and propaganda on the local TV network
-He would spend time smoking his pipe and writing letters home
-Slept in small beds that were about the size of a coffin
-Stacked four high and he had the bottom bunk
-Each man had their locker underneath their bunk
(00:41:08) Ports of Call on the Kitty Hawk
-Stopped in the Philippines a lot
-Visited Hong Kong; Singapore; Sasebo, Japan; and Mombasa, Kenya
-Most of the ports they stopped at couldn’t accommodate the ship due to its size and crew size
-At Mombasa, they anchored offshore and took a ship to shore
(00:42:30) Stationed at Naval Air Station Miramar
-Returned to the United States in November 1972
�-Learned at an early age how much he valued being with his wife
-His wife was still stationed at Camp Pendleton when he got back from his first cruise
-Kitty Hawk was bound for Bremerton, Washington, for dry dock repairs
-He was technically supposed to go with the ship
-Requested a transfer so he could be closer to his wife
-Assigned to Naval Air Station Miramar near Camp Pendleton
-Worked with Squadron VF-213
-A land and sea-based F-4 squadron
-Part of the Kitty Hawk’s complement of fighters
-Stationed at Miramar for a year
-Did some clinic duties
-Went to Fallon, Nevada, for flight exercises
-Allowed to bring his wife with him
-Got approved for a ride on an F-4, but he never got to do it
(00:44:57) Second Cruise on the Kitty Hawk Pt. 1
-Went on the Kitty Hawk for sea trials after its dry dock repairs
-Set sail for second cruise
-On December 11, 1973, there was an explosion in Number 1 engine room
-He was sleeping at the time, and another sailor roused him from his sleep
-Had he not been wakened he would have died from smoke inhalation
-Everyone moved up to the flight deck until the fire was under control
-The explosion caused three of the four ship’s propulsion systems to be shut down
-This, in turn, caused the ship to list to portside
-Limped to Subic Bay, Philippines, for repairs
-He helped treat sailors for minor burns and smoke inhalation
-Established a makeshift clinic
-Below decks the ship reeked of smoke and the walls were covered in soot
-Had to spend a lot of time cleaning up after the fire
-*Note: He says nine men died in the fire, but it was only six
(00:49:12) End of Navy Service
-His second cruise lasted from November 1973 to June 1974 near the end of his enlistment
-Got off the ship at Subic Bay and waited to return to the United States
-Contracted a gastrointestinal disease
-Had to hide it until he got back to the United States
-If the Navy knew he was sick, he would’ve had to stay until he recovered
(00:51:00) Second Cruise on the Kitty Hawk Pt. 2
-During his second cruise, they went to the Indian Ocean with a task force
-Had to sail with supply and fuel ships, since there were no bases
-Visited Mombasa, Kenya, during that operation
-Did a show of power for the shah of Iran
-Found it to be a ridiculous waste of time and resources
-Started running low on supplies after a while
-Drank Kool Aid without sugar, and had the same meals a few times in a row
�-Resupplying at sea was difficult
-Ships had to match speed then transfer supplies on a line
(00:52:52) Becoming a Doctor & Enlisting in the Air Force
-After the Navy, he planned on going to college
-Appreciates that his wife, a college-educated nurse, married him, a high school graduate
-Planned on attending Lake Superior State College, but there was no housing
-He contacted Western Michigan University, and they accepted him
-Used his entire GI Bill to study at WMU
-Wanted to become a doctor then, but had a lot of difficulty with chemistry
-Decided to pursue being a physician’s assistant
-Two-year program and he would graduate with a bachelor’s degree
-Applied for that program and was accepted
-He found work in Cheboygan, Michigan, but wanted to pursue medical school
-Michigan State University’s College of Osteopathic Medicine was looking for PAs
-He needed to take a physics course to apply
-Took it at Lake Superior State College and did the labs at a local high school
-Had three children by now, and needed to have a way to provide for them during medical school
-He got accepted into medical school, but had no way to pay for it
-Joined the Air Force for its Health Professions Scholarship Program
-Paid for medical school, supplies, stipend, and rent at Spartan Village
-Wife and children came with him
-Lived in a two-bedroom apartment
-His children loved the community
-Finished medical school in three years
-Meant he owed the Air Force three years
-Went to the Grand Rapids Osteopathic Hospital for his five years of residence
-Did some drills with the Air Force, but wasn’t paid during residence
-No risk of getting pulled from residency
-After residency, he went to Military Indoctrination for Medical Service Officers
Timecode starts over at 00:00:00, but the interview continues
(00:00:03) Military Indoctrination for Medical Service Officers
-Sent to Sheppard Air Force Base, Kansas, for MIMSO
-Basic introduction to basic military customs
-How to dress and act as a member of the armed forces
-He was one of only two Vietnam War veterans
-Upon graduation, they went to a fancy restaurant
-Fairly uneventful
(00:02:03) Stationed at Minot Air Force Base
-Offered the chance to be assigned to a base in England or Germany
-He declined because his children were young and he wanted to bring his dog
-If he brought his dog, it would’ve had to be quarantined for six months
�-Assigned to Minot Air Force Base, North Dakota
-Never met more decent and friendly people than in Minot
-Lived on base
-Everyone there was like one big family
-Watched each other’s houses when they went on vacation and stocked the fridge
-He had a very busy OB/GYN practice
-Delivered over 250 babies per year
-Did a lot of surgeries
-Didn’t have to worry about the business side of things and could focus on his trade
-During his first year, he had a great mentor who taught him a lot
-Minot was a Strategic Air Command base
-Served as headquarters for all the nuclear missile sites in North Dakota
-Had at least 10,000 – 15,000 people on the base
-Stationed there when the Berlin Wall fell
-Had been used to seeing B-52s constantly circling the base
-They were always ready for a nuclear mission
-After the Wall came down, there were no more B-52s
-Good place to raise his children
-Sometimes it got down to -40 degrees, but they got used to that
-After three years, he appreciated the unique beauty of North Dakota
(00:07:42) End of Air Force Service
-He was asked to continue his enlistment, but he wanted to return to civilian life
-Besides that, his latest work partner was insufferable and hostile
-At the time, he didn’t know that as an officer he had to resign his commission
-Only way for an officer to leave the service
-Went to Grand Haven, Michigan, and started a practice there
-Worked with another doctor
-Eight months later, the Gulf War began
-Started receiving letters that he could be called up for service
-One week before the war ended, he received a letter telling him to prepare for service
-Contacted the Air Force and told them he couldn’t abandon his practice
-Community relied on him
-Told that he could resign his commission and be out of the Air Force
-Immediately decided to resign his commission
-Following the resignation of his commission, he was out of the military for over a decade
(00:11:39) Enlisting in the Army Reserve
-In 2003, he became an OB/GYN director at Metro Hospital in Grand Rapids, Michigan
-Debated that decision
-Had gotten sick of being on-call with his practice, but it was a long drive
-Ultimately decided to take the job
-In the interim, he had some time off, and in that time, went to the Muskegon Air Show
-Seeing the aircraft and his bitterness about 9/11 made him long to serve
-The Army Reserve was represented at the event
�-Army Reserve medical unit based out of Walker, Michigan
-Two weeks later he joined the Army Reserve
-Did basic Army indoctrination
-It was a culture shock compared to the Air Force
-More gritty
-Went into the field for a week of bivouac and training
-It was exciting since he’d never done anything like that before
(00:15:09) Stationed at Fort Wainwright
-His first mobilization was to Fort Lewis, Washington, in 2005
-When he got to Fort Lewis, he received orders for six weeks at Fort Wainwright, Alaska
-He was ecstatic since he had always wanted to visit Alaska
-Thoroughly enjoyed his time at Fort Wainwright and spent a lot of time fishing
-Didn’t want to return to Fort Lewis, but had to do two weeks there
(00:16:53) First Tour in Iraq – Stationed at Camp Bucca
-Sent to Camp Bucca in southern Iraq in 2006 and near the Persian Gulf
-He was an Individual Mobilization Augmentee, which meant he was assigned to a specific unit
-Worked at the emergency room at Camp Bucca
-Helped with detainee transfers
-Got to know what life was like for the infantry
-120 to 130-degree heat
-Went out with a full medical pack and full body armor
-Crossed the desert
-Brought prisoners from Baghdad to Camp Bucca, and vice-versa
-Formed up convoys at night then moved out
-Had to stop at bridges to checked for IEDs
-Went to Basra to load detainees on to C-130s
-One time they had engine failure and had to make an emergency landing
-Another time they took off from Baghdad
-Started bobbing, weaving, and he saw red lights in the window
-Learned afterward they were avoiding a missile lock
-Another time, they started taking mortar fire
-Had to circle up the convoy and take cover
-The infantry perfectly defended the position
-Decided then he would never be captured and executed
-There weren’t too many combat casualties in need of treatment at Camp Bucca
-There was a prison at Camp Bucca
-Shortly after he arrived, there was a riot
-Guards were authorized to use lethal force, but they refrained
-Able to quell the riot without killing any of the prisoners
-Treated detainees when they had medical issues
-Some of them faked their complaints
-Not a lot of combat operations out of Camp Bucca
-His first tour lasted four months, because the Army didn’t want reservists to lose their skills
�(00:27:11) Second Tour in Iraq – Stationed in Iraq
-In 2008, he was deployed to Tikrit
-Stationed at the old Iraqi air force academy
-The place was pockmarked with bullet holes
-Stayed in an old barracks with very basic accommodations
-Attached to a medical unit based in Tikrit
-Did sick call and assisted in surgery
-Common to get rocket fire, but the insurgents were poor shots
-Treated soldiers from combat operations and wounded Iraqi civilians
-Felt he did a lot of good
-One Iraqi was severely wounded
-Had to perform a mastectomy because her breast was severely infected
-A lot of civilians wounded by the cross fire
-Had Iraqi interpreters and learned a lot about their culture
-Had Turkish soldiers in Tikrit
-Ate dinner with them once
-Forbidden from going outside the base into the city
-Always had to carry a weapon
-He carried a 9mm pistol for self-defense
-Became an annoyance after a while
-Whenever he heard multiple incoming helicopters he knew there were a lot of wounded troops
-Established a formula for meeting new soldiers
-Opened a box of cigars, light one, and wait for people to come and ask for one
-This was his way of introducing himself to the unit
-Remembers after one operation they lost a few men
-The soldiers gathered around, smoked cigars, and no one spoke
-He was in Tikrit during the troop “surge”
-Lost a lot soldiers defending Tikrit, and it was painful to hear that ISIS took the city in 2014
-Made some close, long-lasting friendships during his time in Tikrit
(00:37:08) Catholic Work Overseas
-Played guitar for masses at Camp Bucca every week when available
-In Tikrit, he did that at least once a week if not more, and had a choir backing him
-Worked closely with the Catholic chaplain in Afghanistan and travelled with him
(00:38:54) Contact with Home in Iraq War
-Did four months in Tikrit
-During his time in Iraq, it was easier to communicate with his wife
-Had email during his first tour at Camp Bucca
-When he got to Tikrit, Skype was available to soldiers
-Able to have video contact with his wife almost every day
-Never told his wife he did a convoy until after it was done
-He couldn’t talk about where he was going anyway
-Enjoyed the convenience of the internet, but missed the sentimentality of the letters
�(00:40:30) Civilian Life Between Deployments
-Worked for Metro Hospital from 2003 – 2008
-Didn’t like driving from Grand Haven to Grand Rapids, and he didn’t want to move
-Tried to start an OB/GYN program there, and they denied him that
-Mercy Health wanted him to join them, and they wanted him to start his program there
-He took the job offer
(00:42:25) Stationed at Fort Drum
-Sent to Fort Drum, New York, for four months
-Located in Watertown, New York
-The Army hospital was located downtown
-Wife was able to visit him during that mobilization
-They both saw the St. Lawrence Seaway
(00:43:05) Tour in Afghanistan
-Deployed to Afghanistan
-Served as the command surgeon for the 865th Sustainment Command (Expeditionary)
-Supplying a large area of operations
-He had to go to outposts and forward operating bases to make sure they had supplies
-Flew there, drove there, went with convoys, and took helicopters
-More administrative work than medical work
-During one flight to FOB Wolverine a group of special operations soldiers got on his helicopter
-Flew low, at night, with none of the lights on
-Got to FOB Wolverine without incident
-Spent the night there, and left the next day
-Rocket attacks in Kandahar were a daily problem
-Killed a few soldiers relatively often
-The alarm was a robotic, British accent that said, “Rocket attack” over and over
-Eventually stopped going to the bunker
-Learned that if you lived long enough to hear the alarm, you were safe
-Those were the worst accommodations he ever had for an overseas tour
-Shared a room with four other colonels
-Had to share a bunk for a week on rotation until he got his own bunk
-Travelled with a priest and met some Afghan tribal leaders
-Went to a bazaar in Kandahar
-Bought some nice Persian rugs for a good price
-Traders were disappointed if you didn’t haggle with them
-Went to one of the forward operating bases located up in the mountains
-It was beautiful, and there were snow-capped peaks in the distance
-When he arrived in February, it was cold and rainy
-By March, it was sunny and hot
-Spent four months in Afghanistan
(00:50:23) Retirement from Army Reserve
-Retired from the Army Reserve
-Medical school and residency had contributed to his time in active duty
�-Retired on November 15, 2015, at the age of 60 years old
-Had 16 years of active duty
-Retired with the rank of colonel
(00:52:13) Reflections on Service
-Part of him misses being in the military
-He wouldn’t be disappointed if he was called up for service again
-Always in the right branch of service at the right time of his life
-In the Navy, he matured and met the love of his life
-In the Air Force, he gained stability and the chance to become a doctor
-In the Army, he could serve as an older man, do something useful, and formally retire
-Hopes there isn’t a war that needs his service, but he would gladly go if called
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
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1914-
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
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Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
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Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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RHC-27_DoublesteinG2094V
Title
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Doublestein, Gary L (Interview outline and video), 2017
Date
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2017-01-17
Description
An account of the resource
Gary Doublestein was born on November 15, 1952, in Plainwell, Michigan. In early 1970 he enlisted in the Navy, and in June reported for basic training at Naval Training Center San Diego, California. He went to Hospital Corps School at Balboa Naval Hospital in San Diego, and was then stationed at Camp Pendleton, California. Gary stayed at Camp Pendleton for a year and was then assigned to the USS Kitty Hawk. His first cruise on the Kitty Hawk lasted from April 1972 to November 1972. In that first cruise, he witnessed combat flights into Vietnam as well as a mutiny on the ship. He returned to the United States and was stationed at Naval Air Station Miramar, California, until he rejoined the Kitty Hawk. His second cruise lasted from November 1973 to June 1974 and he was aboard ship when one of the engine rooms exploded. He left the Navy in June 1974, and enlisted in the Air Force in the late 1970s (c. 1978) to pay for medical school. He was stationed at Minot Air Force Base, North Dakota, for three years and resigned his commission in 1991. In 2003, he enlisted in the Army Reserve. He served at Fort Wainwright, Alaska, in 2005
at Camp Bucca, Iraq, in 2006
at Tikrit, Iraq, in 2008
and his final deployment was in Kandahar Province, Afghanistan. He retired from the Army Reserve on November 15, 2012.
Creator
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Doublestein, Gary L.
Contributor
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Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
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Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Type
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Moving Image
Text
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<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
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Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
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Veterans History Project (U.S.)
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video/x-m4v
application/pdf
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fc3f0423fa905e90e4f741c8f31c7651.m4v
6f0f32278e6b863b3c990d2d26015cc3
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aafa5eab7adee777236e586060dde9b6.pdf
a8b51943b773f004f9dd786f917ec385
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Ken Bucy
Vietnam War; Cold War; Iraq War
30 minutes 49 seconds
*Note: Times in the outline coincide with timecode in interview
(00:18:24) Early Life
-Born in Anderson, Indiana, on April 25, 1947
-Went to a famous church in Anderson (note: possibly Church of God)
-Grew up in Anderson and through two years at Anderson College
-Planned on getting a liberal arts degree so he could become an Air Force pilot
-Kicked out of the college after his second year because he didn’t have enough money
(00:19:19) Enlisting in the National Guard & Assignment to 151st Infantry Regiment
-Planned on attending the state college, but received his draft notice
-Decided to enlist in the National Guard
-Assigned to an airborne infantry unit, the 151st Infantry Regiment of the 38th Infantry Division
(00:19:42) Deployment to Vietnam
-After basic training and advanced infantry training, the 151st Infantry Regiment was mobilized
-Removed from the 38th Infantry Division and became a Ranger unit
-Sent to Fort Benning, Georgia, for more training
-Deployed to Vietnam in late 1968 after Christmas
-Only National Guard unit in Vietnam
(00:20:40) Missions in Vietnam
-Operated out of a basecamp about 30-40 kilometers north of Long Binh
-Established the base when they arrived in Vietnam
-Operated as Long-Range Reconnaissance Patrol (LRRP) units (Company D, 151st Infantry)
-Six-man teams that went into the field for a week
-Watched rivers and trails for enemy troop and supply movement
-Intelligence they gathered went to II Field Force Vietnam
-Sent out large infantry units to intercept and disrupt enemy movement
-Primary objective, aside from gather intelligence, was to stay quiet and avoid capture
(00:22:17) Casualties & Bond
-Lost six men out of his 206-man company
-Extremely low compared to other infantry units
-His unit was different than any other infantry unit in Vietnam at that time
-Comprised of brothers, cousins, brothers-in-law, and friends from school
-Formed a close bond, making them more effective
-It also meant they took their losses much harder
-Still have monthly association meetings at Camp Atterbury, Indiana
-140 men still alive as of 2016
�(00:24:42) Returning to United States
-Returned to the United States and was placed in the inactive reserves
-Arizona State offered him a scholarship, and he accepted
-College paid-for by GI Bill and scholarship
-Fell in love with the state of Arizona
(00:25:25) Reenlisting in the National Guard – Band
-Joined the Arizona National Guard after graduating from college
-There was a National Guard band near the unit
-Wound up spending a total of 17 years with that band
(00:26:00) Seminary & Chaplain Assistant
-After 12 years in the National Guard, he felt the calling to attend seminary
-Went to the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth
-There was a National Guard unit four blocks away from the seminary
-Headquarters unit for the 2nd Brigade of the 49th Armored Division
-They needed a chaplain assistant, and he took the position
-Took the chaplain assistant course by correspondence
-Introduced to the chaplain
-Outstanding man and enjoyed serving with him
-Worked together for 3 ½ years
(00:28:16) Army Reserve Instructor
-Didn’t like the new chaplain, so he became an instructor in Army Reserve school system
-Returned to Arizona
-Trained noncommissioned officers in the chaplain assistant reclassification course
-Served as an instructor for 12 years
-Had gotten certified during a conference in San Antonio
-Learned that he enjoyed teaching
-Got promoted to the rank of E8 (1st sergeant, or master sergeant)
-Taught the chaplain assistant course seven or eight times during his 12 years as an instructor
-Some of the chaplain assistants he taught went on to become chaplains
(00:30:48) Field Exercise at Fort Hood
-As a chaplain assistant, he went to Fort Hood, Texas, for a field exercise
-Went into the field with the chaplain
-Chaplain had to drive the jeep so Ken could offer “protection” from the passenger seat
-Turned out, the chaplain enjoyed cross-country driving
-One day, they got an order to go into the field because a soldier wanted to see the chaplain
-Drove out to that unit’s location and parked under a tree
-Walked 300-400 yards, then low-crawled the rest of the way
-This was so that they didn’t alert the “enemy” to the unit’s presence
-The men of that unit praised Ken for following protocol
(00:36:00) Returning to the Band in Arizona
-After 12 years, the school he taught at reorganized, and he didn’t like it
-Returned to Arizona to resume service with the band in Arizona
�(00:36:25) Voluntary Deployment to Iraq
-In 2003, his band played for three units called-up for service in Iraq
-Deeply moved him
-Knew that a chaplain, somewhere, needed an assistant
-After a week of deliberation, he decided to volunteer for deployment to Iraq
-Contacted the National Guard, and they said they had no opening for him
-A few months later they called him and said they had an opening
-Assigned to an infantry brigade in Louisiana that needed a chaplain assistant
-Spent a total of 19 months with them
-One of the most rewarding times during his career in the Army
-Knew he was exactly where he needed to be
-The chaplain he served with had been in that unit for 19 years
-Younger men related to Ken because he had prior combat experience
-Trained at Fort Hood, Texas, for six months
-Trained at Fort Irwin, California, for five weeks
(00:39:52) Tour in Iraq
-Travelled from the United States, to Kuwait, to Iraq
-Built their own chapel
-Originally held services in a tent without air-conditioning
-He was picked to supervise the construction of their chapel in Camp Victory
-Helped by Army Engineers
-Made a baptistry out of 1,000-gallon water tank, cut in half
(00:42:08) Retirement & Life After Service
-Retired from the Army in 2007
-Taught Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps cadets for three years
-Permanently retired after that
-Enjoyed teaching, especially with students that wanted to be there
-Involved in local politics since 2010
(00:43:33) Reflections on Service Pt. 1
-He didn’t become an Air Force pilot, but he made the most out of his experiences
-Feels his time in the Army showed the efficacy of a good non-commissioned officer
-He was offered the chance to go to Officer Candidate School
-Declined, because he wanted to be on the ground with the troops
(00:44:22) Basic Training
-While in basic training, he knew how to march due to his experience in marching band
-Picked to call cadence and lead his training platoon during marches
-Sergeant tasked him with “procuring” two new mops from another unit
-He, and a few other squad leaders, went out at night and got the mops
(00:46:37) Barbeque Party in Vietnam
-In Vietnam, they had two or three extra vehicles in their motor pool
-During the tour, they lost a copy of their communications/electronics operating instructions
-Basically, all the secret call-signs used by units in radio communications
-As a result, all the units were called in to the basecamp until they got a new CEOI
�-A couple soldiers took one of the extra jeeps and a trailer to Saigon to get meat and beer
-The soldiers used six, 55-gallon drums to make a giant barbeque pit
-Had a three-day party
-Still has no idea where the extra vehicles came from
(00:48:47) Reflections on Service Pt. 2
-Company D of the 151st Infantry Rangers were the most decorated infantry company in 1969
-Proud to have served with them
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
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RHC-27
Language
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eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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RHC-27_BucyK2054V
Title
A name given to the resource
Bucy, Ken (Interview outline and video), 2016
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-28
Description
An account of the resource
Ken Bucy was born in Anderson, Indiana, on April 25, 1947. He enlisted in the Indiana National Guard and was assigned to D Company of the 151st Infantry Regiment of the 38th Infantry Division. Upon completion of basic training and advanced infantry training, the 151st became a Ranger unit. He received more training at Fort Benning, Georgia, and was deployed to Vietnam after Christmas 1968. They conducted long-range reconnaissance patrols out of a base north of Long Binh. After returning to the United States, he was placed in the inactive reserve and studied at Arizona State. He joined the Arizona National Guard after graduating from college and served in a National Guard band for a total of 17 years. After 12 years in the National Guard, he attended Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and became a chaplain assistant in the 2nd Brigade of the 49th Armored Division. He served with them for 3 1/2 years, then served as an Army Reserve instructor for 12 years. He returned to the National Guard band in Arizona and served with them until he volunteered for service in Iraq in 2003. Ken served in Iraq as a chaplain assistant in a Louisiana infantry brigade. He retired from military service in 2007.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Bucy, Ken
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Keizer, Herman Jr. (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
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Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Format
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video/x-m4v
application/pdf
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8994293287960e47b5c2e86b7a0376fc.m4v
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bb641fe57a7140fbbcc3cd318621cdfa.m4v
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/75062da6e3d141d66ecad1ffc39dd408.pdf
8b59810517657d395dc50f70184b207c
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
Kurt Stauff
Cold War; Peacetime; War on Terror
Part 1 – 1 hour 6 minutes 49 seconds
(00:00:27) Early Life & Family History
-Born in November 1954 in Jackson, Michigan
-Maternal grandfather served in the Navy during World War II
-Witnessed the attack on Pearl Harbor
-Served in the South Pacific aboard a destroyer
-A lot of men on his father's side served as officers in the Army
-His uncle on his father's side served in the infantry during the Vietnam War
-Killed in action in 1970
-Has seen his uncle's name on the Vietnam War Memorial
-Went to school in Grass Lake, Michigan, for kindergarten and first grade
-Spent the rest of his education in the Ionia school system
-Graduated from Ionia High School
-Accepted into Michigan State University
-After one year at MSU he decided to leave college
-Graduated high school in January 1972
-Worked for the Michigan Bell Telephone Company in Grand Rapids and Lansing, Michigan
-Worked for his father and took classes at Grand Valley State College (now University)
-Worked in carpet sales and in the warehouse
(00:07:18) Enlisting in the Navy
-Worked in carpet sales in Grand Rapids, Michigan when his father and younger brother died
-His employers served in the Army and the Navy
-Encouraged Kurt to explore the idea of enlisting
-Went to recruiting centers in Grand Rapids
-Life in the Army didn't appeal to him
-Took the Navy's aptitude test
-Could do anything in the Navy except nuclear technology because he was too old
-Qualified to be a Sonar Technician on submarines
-Appealed to him because he could operate, maintain, and repair hardware
-Enlisted in the Navy in December 1982
(00:09:36) Training
-Began Basic Training at Great Lakes Naval Station, Illinois, on June 20, 1983
-Did his Basic Enlisted Submarine Training in Groton, Connecticut
-Most likely at the Naval Submarine Base New London
-Given a psychological examination to insure he could spend extended time on a submarine
-Learned about submarine systems, protocol, and trained on a simulator
-Graduated second in his class
-Given an idea of what to expect
-Went to Submarine Sonar Technician Apprenticeship School in San Diego, California
-Learning how work as a Sonar Technician aboard a submarine
-Sent to “C School” to learn about individual equipment systems (basically, specialized training)
-Completed two years of training before he boarded a submarine
�(00:13:02) Service aboard the USS Pargo (SSN-650)
-Came back to Michigan on leave for 30 days before reporting for duty
-In December 1984 he reported to the USS Pargo (SSN-650)
-A Sturgeon Class submarine that was 492 feet long
-Didn't have enough bunks for the crew, so they had to “hot rack” (rotated sleeping schedule)
-Three crewmen had to share two bunks
-As one crewman got off watch, another crewman could get into the bunk
-Hygiene was important to avoid health problems
-Crew functioned like a large family
-Learned about Damage Control on a submarine
-Depended on each other for survival
-Had to know how to save the ship, because there is no abandoning ship
-Learned how to control fires, floods, and radiation leaks
-Assigned to secure a compartment during an emergency
-Finds submarines to be more efficient than surface ships
(00:17:39) Submarine Service in the Pacific Ocean
-USS Pargo was placed in dry dock at Bremerton, Washington for two years of repair
-Served aboard fast-attack submarines and a ballistic submarine out of Pearl Harbor
(00:18:17) Cold War & the Arctic Sea
-Did three months in the Arctic Sea chasing Soviet submarines
-Got within 20 nautical miles of the North Pole
-Surfaced and saw the Polar Ice Caps
-When they were in the Arctic Sea the submarine got colder
-Heard the ice moving via sonar
-Rough water
-Rolled 50o and pitched forward and back
-Got his “Blue Nose Certificate” for crossing the Arctic Circle
-The “Blue Nose Certificate” is a hazing ceremony for sailors
-Sat on an ice block, drank hot sauce and fish oil, and answer embarrassing questions
-The United States had better technology than the Soviet Union
-Spied on each other and gathered intelligence
-Remembers when John Walker was arrested for treason
-Had gathered intelligence about American submarines and sold it to the Soviet Union
-He felt that Walker should have been executed for treason
-Could have put numerous American lives at risk
(00:24:24) Submarine Exercises off Pacific Coast
-Passed through Panama Canal to get to the Pacific Ocean
-Went on a torpedo exercise off the coast of San Diego
-Stopped at an island near Canada
-Operated around the Strait of Juan de Fuca near Vancouver, Canada
(00:26:22) Instructing & Further Training
-Spent the majority of the 1980s on submarines, instructing, or training
-Taught sailors how to use Auxiliary Sonar Gear
-He spent his time instructing during the Gulf War
(00:27:33) Transfer to Mine Warfare
-Served on submarines in the early 1990s
-Trained on a new sonar system for Los Angeles Class submarines
-Developed a chronic medical issue which disqualified him for submarine service, but not the Navy
-Disappointed because he was up for promotion to Chief Petty Officer (E7)
�-In 1994 he received mine warfare training at Naval Submarine Base New London, Connecticut
-From 1995 to 1997 he trained to be a mine man in Charleston, South Carolina
-Learned about storage, maintenance, and repair of undersea mines
-Had to know the skills of five other positions
-In 2000 he made the rank of Mine Man Chief Petty Officer
(00:33:32) Married in the Navy
-Difficult being married in the Navy
-Had to move around a lot
-Deployed for nine months at a time
-Went on one Mediterranean Sea tour for six months straight
-Navy has a family support system for spouses and children
-Wife had been exposed to Navy life, but didn't know what the reality would be
-Got divorced after three years
-Amicable separation
(00:37:09) Mine Warfare Service Pt. 1
-From 1997 to 2000 he served aboard the USS Patriot (MCM-7) in Sasebo, Japan
-Traveled to Singapore, Borneo, South Korea, Thailand, and Hong Kong
-Worked with South Koreans and they had good mine warfare
-Conducted exercises with South Koreans
-Friendly, but they had a problem with not living up to their promises
-For example, they offered material, but couldn't procure it
-In 2000 he went to the Mine Warfare Training Center at Naval Station Ingleside, Texas
-Had minesweepers and mine hunters
(00:41:13) September 11th Attacks
-He was serving as an instructor on September 11, 2001
-Going down to the smoking area and he passed through a lounge
-Saw the news that the jet hit the World Trade Center's North Tower
-Locked down the base for a week
-Everybody was scared and angry especially after the jet hit the Pentagon
-Felt they needed to retaliate
(00:45:00) War on Terror & Iraq War
-Continued instruction during the War on Terror
-Had mine ships reinforced in Bahrain
-Had to get a hospital ship to Umm Qasr during the Iraq War
-Sent a minesweeper to insure it was safe for a hospital ship to enter the port
-He was stationed in Bahrain to help oversee the mine countermeasure warfare
-At that time he was a Senior Chief Petty Officer (E8)
-Sent Navy personnel to Afghanistan to assist the Army with explosive disposal and other duties
-In charge of 350 enlisted personnel in Bahrain
-Two ships with 60 crewmen each
-Explosive ordnance disposal personnel, air squadron personnel, and shore personnel
-Stationed in Bahrain for one year
(00:51:13) Mine Warfare Service Pt. 2
-Returned to Japan and became the Command Senior Chief Petty Officer on the USS Patriot
-Conducted more exercises
-Went to Brunei and to Vladivostok, Russia
-Strange to be in a Russian port after years of Russia being the enemy of the United States
-Had been in Vladivostok before during the Cold War, gathering intelligence
-Surprised by the shabby and filthy condition of the port
�-Garbage clogged the harbor
-Russians were friendly
-Arrived at Vladivostok around July 4th
-Remembers that it was rainy and muddy
(00:56:37) Traveling the Pacific Ocean & Visiting Japan
-Visited Hiroshima, Japan; Pearl Harbor; Okinawa' and other parts of Japan
-Japanese welcomed Americans
-Did exercises with the Japanese
-Spent a week on a Japanese ship
-Different kind of culture
-Visited the memorials at Pearl Harbor
-Surprised by the number of Japanese coming to show their respect
-Made more sense after he went to the memorial at Hiroshima
-Moving to see the memorial at Hiroshima
-Made him understand how much the Japanese suffered during World War II
-Allowed to go anywhere in Japan he wanted to go
-Navy advised against going to certain areas of Japanese ports
(01:02:20) USS Indianapolis & Navy Protocol
-The USS Indianapolis tragedy changed navigation protocols for the Navy
-Note: USS Indianapolis torpedoed on July 30, 1945, resulting in deaths of 879 sailors
-Navy made a new navigation protocol
-Ships have prescribed navigation points on planned routes
-Once a ship reaches a point it must radio in it that it reached the point
-If a ship doesn't reach its point, it must notify command that it hasn't sunk
-Improvement for tracking ships
-In the event of a sinking the Navy can locate the ship faster
(01:04:22) Promotion to Master Chief Petty Officer
-Promoted to Master Chief Petty Officer (E9) in 2007
-Worked at the Mine Shop in Charleston, South Carolina as the Logistics Department Head
-In May 2007 he was promoted to Master Chief Petty Officer
-Only one of five active Master Chiefs in the Navy at one time
-Pinnacle of his career
Part 2 – 29 minutes 41 seconds
(00:00:01) Duty as Master Chief Petty Officer
-There is a Squadron Chief, Sea Chief, a Shore Chief, Mining Chief
-As his rank went up, his billet (station) choices decrease
-There were three Mine Shops he could serve at
-Okinawa, Charleston, and San Diego
-San Diego: Naval Mine Anti-Submarine Warfare or Mobile Mine Assembly Group
-At San Diego he would be in charge of the other Mine Shops
-Coordinated his billet choice with the other master chiefs
(00:01:40) Stationed at San Diego
-He returned to San Diego
-Served as the senior mine warfare adviser to an admiral
-There were two master chiefs stationed at San Diego
-Mine warfare master chief (him) and a sonar master chief
-He helped train and assess at the squadron level for three major fleets
�-Pacific Fleet at Sasebo, Japan
-3rd Fleet at San Diego
-5th Fleet in the Arabian (Persian) Gulf
-Taught techniques and tactics or assessed the fleets' mine warfare
-Had to tell the skippers of mine ships if performed well, or poorly
-Gave them pointers
-Only stepped in if a skipper did something stupid or dangerous
-Most of them performed well
(00:04:40) Mine Warfare Fleet in the 21st Century
-Mine countermeasure fleet is outdated and has no spare parts
-Nobody thinks about the mine fleet until mines become a problem
-Short on ships, money, and training
-Believes that training has improved since the fleet got a new admiral
-Potential enemies have an abundance of undersea mines
-Even one mine can stop commercial shipping in an area
-Mine hunting takes forever as it is, and with a weak fleet it becomes even more tedious
(00:07:40) Reflecting on Career
-Spent 29 ½ years in the Navy (1983-2012)
-His responsibilities immensely increased at the end
-When he was busiest he had the most fun
-Learned people skills and how to handle situations
-Got to watch sailors under his command grow up and advance through the ranks
-It was like watching children grow
-Majority of career spent preparing younger sailors to take his place in the future
-Great sense of satisfaction knowing his replacements were ready
-Felt the Navy and the country was in good hands
-Knew it was time for him to step aside
-Doesn't regret his career in the Navy, but would've done certain things differently
(00:�10:34) Commanders in Chief
-President Reagan built up the military after the Vietnam War
-Wanted a 600-ship Navy and outpace the Soviets
-Increased the hardware, training, and personnel
-Returned a sense of pride to the military
-Inspiring and supportive
-President Clinton wasn't too bad, but felt he had a disdain for his Naval attaches
-Felt “Don't Ask, Don't Tell” policy was unnecessary
-Knew gay sailors and it never caused any problems because they just did their jobs
-Caused unnecessary witch hunts
-President George H.W. Bush operated the same as President Reagan
-President George W. Bush was a good commander in chief
-Supportive of the military
-Ex-military
-Not the best at policy, but Kurt felt confident with him as his leader
-President Obama reduced the military's size and funding to pre World War II levels
-Feels less prepared if the country had to fight a major war
(00:17:21) Accomplishments & Commendations
-Major accomplishments happened after he made Chief Petty Officer
-Meant he was usually the ranking enlisted man at sea
-2000 – 2012 was the peak of his career
�-Received letters of commendation from the governors of states he served in
-Received letters of commendation from the presidents he served under
-All except for President Reagan who had died before Kurt's retirement
-His most cherished award was the Meritorious Service Medal
-Received the Chief's Cutlass
-A ceremonial award presented to him when he left Charleston
-Symbolic of the enlisted man in the Navy
-Used to be given to enlisted men in the 1800s to repel boarders
(00:21:17) Faith in the Navy
-He turned to God when he felt that he needed guidance, inspiration, or just to vent
-Prayed more when he became a petty officer and had to make decisions
-Chaplains were available if men wanted, or needed religious services
-There was a Protestant chaplain or a Catholic chaplain
-Protestant chaplain did not ascribe to any specific Protestant denomination
-Made services generic
-It was difficult for him to establish himself at a civilian church of his own denomination
-Moved too often to make lasting connections
(00:24:39) Changes in the Navy
-Positive changes in the Navy were advances in technology and faster aircraft and ships
-Safety also improved as technology advanced
-Robots were being introduced as a way to search and destroy mines
-Put fewer sailors at risk
-Major negative change in the Navy was a drop in morale
-Started off high in the 1980s, but continued to trend downward
-Felt the government was trying to treat the military too much like a civilian industry
-Applauded equality, but felt the government tried too hard to appease people
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_StauffK1936V
Title
A name given to the resource
Stauff, Kurt M (Interview outline and video), 2016
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-11
Description
An account of the resource
Kurt Stauff was born in November 1954 in Jackson, Michigan. In December 1982 he enlisted in the Navy. He started basic training on June 20, 1983 at Great Lakes Naval Station, Illinois, and received Basic Enlisted Submarine Training at Naval Submarine Base New London, Connecticut. He attended the Submarine Sonar Technician Apprenticeship School in San Diego, California and received further training at "C School." After two years of training he boarded the submarine, USS Pargo (SSN-650) in December 1984. He went on intelligence gathering missions, torpedo exercises, and got to sail north of the Arctic Circle. For a short time he served aboard fast-attack submarines and ballistic submarines out of Pearl Harbor. In 1994 he transferred to mine warfare and from 1995 to 1997 he trained in Charleston, South Carolina. From 1997 to 2000 he served aboard the USS Patriot (MCM-7) at Sasebo, Japan, then returned to the United States to serve as an instructor. During the War in Iraq he spent a year in Bahrain overseeing mine sweeping missions in the area. In 2007 he reached his highest rank, Master Chief Petty Officer (E9), and spent the next five years as the mine warfare master chief to an admiral. He retired from the Navy in 2012.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Stauff, Kurt M.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Hammond, Steve (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American
United States. Navy
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/x-m4v
application/pdf
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d5a35c5fb214e60cd8add17c62c82c07.m4v
cad2b6ba0653c5c3e69d4f9c7d13b9c6
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/98ac5ef0aa4619c057a64b479e40fde5.pdf
ef4d660db6bb80d5670d806452c02208
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans’ History Project
Bryan Pogodzinski
Cold War, Iraq War
15 minutes 38 seconds
(00:00:10) Early Life
-Born on September 15th, 1964.
-Served as a Master Sergeant in the Air Force.
-Born on Carswell Air Force base in Fort Worth Texas.
-Father was in the Air Force for four years.
-Later became a factory worker for Rockwell.
-Mother worked for a bank.
-Siblings:
-One brother a year older (also born at Carswell).
-A sister (born in Michigan).
-Before entering the military worked for a farm, grocery store, hung dry wall, misc work.
-A friend of his father’s convinced him to join the military.
-Flew to Cleveland to the recruiting station to join.
-Chose the Air Force due to his father being in the Air Force.
(00:01:50) Training and Cold War Era
-Began training around the start of 1986.
-Training “old school” break you down to build you up approach.
-Some difficulty with being away from friends and family.
-Eventually adjusted to the routine.
-Not as focused on physical training in the Air Force.
-Tedious attention to detail activities. E.g. folding clothes.
-Desirable to pay attention to detailed technical info.
-Lived in 70102nd basic military training squadron (BMTS).
-Started with 58 members, lost 8 dropouts over time.
-No free time.
-No set routine aside from meals.
-Lots of running and marching.
-First station after training: Dyess Air Force base in Abilene Texas.
-First daughter was eventually born there.
-Dyess was a Strategic Air Command base (SAC)
-High profile for its nuclear weaponry during 60s-80s.
-B1 Bomber was introduced there.
-Congress people were present often.
-His role there was a security police officer for the Air Force.
-Cold War ended while he was in Europe.
(00:07:07) Iraq War
-Served in Operation Desert Shield
�-Worked for the 555th MP Company
-Experienced drive by shootings, insurgent attacks, security risks with Kuwait politicians,
helicopter crashes, etc.
-On his role in the military:
-investigated and found $4 million of stolen helicopter parts.
-Dealing with drugs, alcohol, pornography, prostitution rings (mentioned later at 13:12)
-Similar roles to a county police officer.
-Made good friends in the military.
-Keeps in touch with a lot of fellow military members.
-Communicating with family at that time was with phones, and there was e-mailing.
-First deployment lasted four months, second deployment lasted eight months.
-Before deployment “Spin up training”, in New Jersey for five weeks.
-Not much free time while deployed.
-Swimming in the pool or simply catching more sleep.
-Difficulty with re-adjusting to civilian life.
-No family/children overseas to have to orient yourself toward.
-Not a community that shares the same knowledge/experience.
-Values the education and experiences the military offered.
-Pursuing a PhD which should be completed soon.
-Seen places others may only read about. E.g. Germany before and after Berlin Wall.
-After returning from military worked at a car manufacturing job.
-Changed paths to focus on education.
-Received bachelors, two master’s degrees, now finishing a PhD.
-Worked for Children Protective Services in Allegan County.
-Now works with children with behavioral disorders and autistic children.
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_PogodzinskiB1824V
Title
A name given to the resource
Pogodzinski, Bryan (Interview outline and video), 2015
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-05-25
Description
An account of the resource
Bryan Pogodzinski was born on September 15th 1964. He was active in the military during the Cold War as well as the Iraq War and served as a Master Sargent in the Air Force. During the Cold War he was stationed at Dyess Air Force base where the B1 Bomber was introduced. Later he was part of Operation Desert Shield in Iraq. There he worked for the 555th Military Police Company dealing with security risks. After leaving the military he focused on education and is soon to complete his PhD.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Pogodzinski, Bryan
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Kaczanowski, Claire (Interviewer)
Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American
United States. Air Force
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Moving Image
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/x-m4v
application/pdf