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Dawn Schumann - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Meghann Stevens
July 21, 2018
Part 1
Eric Gollannek: This is, this is Eric Gollanneck.
Meghann Stevens: And Meghann Stevens.
EG: And I’m here today with…
Dawn Schumann: Dawn Schumann.
EG: At the Douglas, uh, Saugatuck Douglas History Center, the old school house in Douglas Michigan on
July 21st, 2018. This oral history is being collected as part of the Stories of Summer Project which is
supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage
Program.
DS: Oh, I didn’t know that.
EG: Thank you for taking the time to talk with us today. Um, we’re interested in learning more about
your family history in particular experiences of summer in the Saugatuck Douglas area. Focusing on
summer. Uh, can you please say your full name and spell it for us.
DS: My full name.
EG: Yes.
DS: Dawn D A W N, Schwartz S C H W A R T Z, Follet F O L L E T T Goshorn G O S H O R N, Schuman S C H
U M A N N.
EG: There we go.
DS: That enough?
EG: For the record, wonderful, thank you. So, kind of jumping right in, tell us a little bit about your
earliest experiences, memories coming to Saugatuck Douglas area.
DS: Well, I'm not sure I remember it too well.
[00:01:26]
Part 2
Eric Gollannek: This is, this is Eric Gollanneck.
Meghann Stevens: And Meghann Stevens.
EG: And I’m here today with…
Dawn Schumann: Dawn Schumann.
1
�Dawn Schumann - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Meghann Stevens
July 21, 2018
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EG: Uh, at the Saugatuck Douglas History Center in Douglas Michigan on July 21st, 2018. Uh, continuing
our oral history from part one, um previously. Um, so you were speaking a little bit about uh, the, the
Bible Camp, family camp…
DS: Oh.
EG: …and…
DS: Yeah, uh, Frank Bible, I would, came to the camp with Frank and Muriel Bible and because her
daughter, their daughter was my best friend. We were, oh it was probably 1945? 46? And uh, they had
great history with the camp. Uh, Louise's grandfather had been head of the far east Presbyterian, and
um, had Frank had been born in China. When they had to leave the country because of all of the
warring factions, etcetera. They came directly to the church camp. Where Frank Bible’s father basically
ran the show and worked with Jane Adams worked with all the others just start setting up the format of
the camp. So, he, Frank was a young boy and he was the lifeguard and at the nearby Oxbow, was this
very lovely Muriel whose father was a famous artist. And they met around the camp fire and this was
very much the way of life in the church camp because the camp fires were really big part of our lives. In
the process of being allowed the freedom to run in the woods and to run the whole area. We made our
way, at one particular time over as far as the Kalamazoo River, the new entrance to the Kalamazoo.
EG: [Laughs] Right.
DS: It was put in, begun in 1904, but at that point it was still called the new entrance.
MS: [Laughs]
EG: Right.
DS: The new channel, and we were messing around and playing in um, uh, the area right opposite
Singapore. We ran into one time, we ran into um, blue flow shards, a blue flow China. And another time,
Indian arrowheads, when we were working in another part, or, not working but playing in another part.
We took the back to the church camp because we wanted to, this was exciting stuff.
MS: Yeah.
EG: Mhm.
DS: And um, they were, there were people there that had been in that camp since the teens. Okay? And
they had, they were thrilled to see this, they never seen this, this kind of a [inaudible]. So they put it in a
little museum that we had, along with, with a lot of other history. The museum is now been destroyed,
to make a way for [sighs]
MS: Yeah.
DS: Housing development, and so life goes on. But, Louise and I in the early 50s went on to wait tables,
for three dollars a month.
[all laugh]
�Dawn Schumann - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Meghann Stevens
July 21, 2018
3
DS: And all you could eat, and they did houses. In the dormitory that we were housed in was up at the
top of a dune that was almost as high as um, Mount Baldy.
EG: Mhm.
DS: So you can you can picture running up, and down.
MS: Oh gosh. [Laughs]
DS: Well…
EG: You’d be in good shape.
MS: Yeah.
DS: Be in very good shape.
[All laugh]
DS: Well the pavilion was still going strong, and that time and we got taken by the couple of the boys
from camp to go over to the pavilion dancing, and I have to tell you that was thrill.
EG: I’ll bet.
DS: I mean they no longer have the big orchestras and it was probably not as, as elegant as it has been
when my grandparents were there.
EG: Mhm.
DS: In 1911 and 12 and 13, they’d just take the steamer over.
EG: Right.
DS: Anyway, so that was great fun to be able to actually dance there and see what it was like, and of
course cry when it burned down…
EG and MS: Yeah.
DS: …Just a few years later. One time Louise and I were [coughs] interested in getting a pineapple soda.
[All laugh]
DS: …So we made our way to the ferry, now the ferry was not the ferry that you know today.
EG: The chain ferry?
DS: The chain ferry.
EG: Right.
�Dawn Schumann - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Meghann Stevens
July 21, 2018
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DS: Well but it wasn’t the chain ferry then.
EG: Okay.
DS: It was a two sided rowboat.
EG: Okay.
MS: Oh.
DS: The chain was down there.
EG: Right.
DS: But, the, the big huge um, oh gosh what do you call it? Took the people across it was a large flat
boat.
EG: Like a barge.
[00:05:01]
MS: Yeah.
DS: A barge, that’s the word. A large, flat barge that could take um, horses and carriages and famers
wagons and what have you across that was no longer there. It was just two sided rowboat, and let me
tell you the problem was that the guy, the ferry man, Tim the ferry man was a tippler…
MS: Oh.
EG: Okay.
DS: …and so we explained to him that we had to be back at camp in 45 minutes. So we had half an hour
to go, get our soda’s and then we come back right away, and please be ready to take us back so we were
weren’t late.
EG: Mhm.
DS: We got back, no Tim in sight. We went, we ran as fast as we could do it every bar town and there
were a few.
EG: Right.
DS: And he wasn’t anywhere we could find, he wasn’t in back at the boat, so we had to swim. The river.
EG: Wow!
DS: And this was in August and it had been a very rainy July, like it is today. So there was a current.
EG: Yeah.
�Dawn Schumann - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Meghann Stevens
July 21, 2018
5
DS: Well we were both very strong swimmers, we had been swimming in Lake Michigan…
EG: Mhm.
DS: …since we were children and in High School we were both on the swim team and doing, uh, water
ballet. So we were pretty strong swimmers. Well, we got aw, out, we made it across with a lot of, I mean
it was really tough. But we got across up somewhere around the um, where the museum is now.
MS and EG: Mhm.
DS: The pump house.
EG: Yeah.
MS: Yeah.
DS: And when we got out, we were covered in, tan sticky, gunk.
MS and EG: Oh!
DS: I mean in our hair, and every part of oh our, oh, it was awful and it smelled. I mean it smelled really
bad. Well, we went running back to camp because we were really late.
MS: Yeah.
DS: And there's something, you know Perryman goes along to the Oval, well running parallel is
something called the um, the ministers walk and so we didn't want to be seen because we were such a
mess. And so we ran through the, the path that was through the woods that was the ministers walk. We
got to camp, ran up the top of the dune, did our bathing and um, tried hard to get to get off this, sticky,
oily, gunky, smelly stuff.
EG: Yeah.
DS: We did the best we could, we get down there to serve lunch and Papa T took one look at us and
smelled us, and said what have you been doing? And we just said, oh, well we had to run to town and
we just got back. Okay but you really smell bad. Well I'm sorry we did the best we could. We didn't tell
him that we had [laughs] because that was forbidden.
EG: Sure.
MS: Oh.
DS: Because people have thrown doing that.
EG: Sure.
MS: Oh.
DS: So, oh yeah.
�Dawn Schumann - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Meghann Stevens
July 21, 2018
6
MS: Couldn’t even tell him.
DS: So there we were. Anyway, it was a beautiful camp and seeing that I'm amazed me was is that, when
you sat in person, certain places in that camp, it was if there was, and I’ll use a term that I learned in
Sedona, you felt like there was something in the air, the atmosphere the feel, that uplifted you and you
were just [deep breath] And the second part of the camp was a circular area that had been in
encampment for the Indians for generations. I mean, probably a thousand years?
MS and EG: Mhm.
DS: And um, it's about five to six acres, circle, almost a perfect circle.
MS: Mhm.
DS: No trees growing in there. The grass stays short. It's the most amazing place you've ever seen. So
the camp had path that wound through it. Certainly through this meadow. Some, what we called the
meadow, and along the paths there would be a written stakes, things from Theroux, and [clears throat]
MS and EG: Mhm.
DS: Just different writers, of that period that were just thought provoking and you could sit down on
benches along the path or you could just keep running. The path ran from Shorewood all the way to the
ferry. Most people don't know that, but sitting talking to some of the older folk, and there actually was
an agreement between the city and the camp that path would be open to the public.
[00:10:11]
MS: Oh.
DS: As long as the uh, the camp gave the, the road, the camp owned the land that the road was on. \
MS: Yeah.
DS: And I saw this when Jim Schimiechen and I were doing the historic survey at the Burnham Library.
There was the agreement, and when we were, we were uh, trying to forestall the the purchase of the
church camp…
EG: Mhm.
DS: For a mega million dollar development, um, I went back to get it, to get a copy of this.
EG: Mhm.
DS: Because that would be germane.
MS: Mhm.
DS: It was gone. It had been taken from the library.
MS and EG: Oh.
�Dawn Schumann - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Meghann Stevens
July 21, 2018
7
DS: So we couldn't prove it.
MS: Yeah.
DS: Which is really a shame, but anyway that's, that’s the story.
EG: Wow.
DS: And um, I’ve gone back to the church camp until of course it was closed and I gave a, a lecture to a
whole host of people. This, a Historical Society event and I just stood there where they had a cross and a
bunch of benches looking out at the lake and I just stood there and I looked at people and I said what do
you feel? Stop and think a minute and feel it, and they could. When, once you stop and you think about
it. What you are feeling? You’re feeling really great. It’s good to be there, it’s a happy place. And that’s
what the dunes are, just exactly that. So when we couldn’t find a house and the interesting thing, I was
very involved with the Frank Lloyd Wright studio in Oak Park Illinois, and in 1975 we decided we wanted
to rent something on the Lakeshore, if we could, and we had a sailboat. It was an Islander 29 and it got
us all around the lake and we had a wonderful time with the kids. But we all wanted to put our buckets
in the sand.
[EG laughs]
DS: We missed being in Saugatuck. There was something wrong we weren’t in Saugatuck.
EG: Yeah.
MS: Yeah.
EG: Sure.
DS: And uh, so…
MS: [Whispering] Oh, sorry, sorry
DS: So um, [whispering] where was I? Oh. Oh.
EG: Coming back to Saugatuck.
MS: Yeah.
DS: So, I called a friend of ours from Oak Park that I had gone to High School who was realtor up here
and I said is there anything that’s available to rent on the lakeshore? She said, oh my god Dawn, get your
husband out of work, the kids out of uh, school and get up here right now. I just signed a contract to
rent a cottage that has your name over all it and I said why, and she said it was designed by a student
and Frank Lloyd Wright’s.
EG: Okay.
DS: So my husband left work the kids pulled out of school
MS: [Laughing]
�Dawn Schumann - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Meghann Stevens
July 21, 2018
DS: I mean, that was it.
EG: What, what time of year was this?
DS: This was in, um early June.
EG: Okay.
DS: I mean they were just finishing.
MS and EG: Mhm.
DS: So it was possible to do that.
EG: Right.
MS: Yeah.
DS: We came up, we walked in the front door, we got to uh, there's a, trip, typical of the style…
EG: Mhm.
DS: ….you go through a long narrow, uh, entryway…
MS: Yeah.
DS: …compressed and then, boom, out into space and we got into the kitchen which was the beginning
of that open space.
EG: Yeah.
DS: We didn't go any further, just turned to her and said, we’ll take it.
[All laugh]
DS: So we took it for the month of August and, and it turned out that the woman that had, the people
immediately next door had built it. Because they wanted to be there year round, and they discovered
winners are a little harsh.
EG: Mhm.
MS: Yeah.
DS: And so he loved to gamble and went to Las Vegas instead.
[MS and EG laugh]
DS: They kept the cottage, but they…
MS: Yeah.
8
�Dawn Schumann - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Meghann Stevens
July 21, 2018
9
DS: Winters were, are, you know, winters were in Las Vegas.
EG: Wow.
DS: So, um, we sold the boat and we took a second mortgage from the people next door, who loved us
because my dog would go over and keep him company while he watched, [pause] the market.
MS: Yeah.
EG: Right.
[MS and EG laugh]
DS: But anyway so we've got the cottage and have been here since 1975.
EG: Wow.
DS: And watched a lot of things go on. Big, big part of the Historical Society and uh, I was the first Cochair of the Heritage Preservation Committee and we did the historic survey of Saugatuck and Douglas
and Jim Schimiechen worked with us.
[00:15:18]
EG: Mhm.
DS: And uh, did his wonderful book.
MS: Yeah.
DS: And so, I don't know what else do you want me to tell you?
EG: Well that, that’s a, that’s a, that’s a tantalizing account.
MS: Yeah.
DS: Good!
[MS laughs]
EG: Of summer on the lakeshore. Um, any observations you’ve had having been here, it’s been really
your whole life here, summers over your whole life time.
DS: Right.
EG: The last forty years or so. Um, changes that you’ve seen in the community? Uh?
DS: You know, it's been a period of accessing historic of properties that have been change time over and
that change over time has not been negative. When I look at, out the window at the, at the um, what
was originally Methodist Church, now a library.
�Dawn Schumann - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Meghann Stevens
July 21, 2018
10
EG: Right.
DS: Change over time.
EG: Mhm.
DS: A different usage. Um, when we first started coming you could a bowling ball down Center Street
which is our main street.
MS: Mhm.
DS: And a couple of gentleman, took, purchased one of the uh, uh buildings and he restored it and all of
a sudden people begin looking at Douglas.
EG: Mhm.
DS: Today, you walk up and down the street and yes there is some intrusive properties into what it
would have been a very perfect, typical, um, 18, civil war era town.
EG: Yeah.
DS: But, on the whole, it's retained his character, and, so much so that you've got people who are
moving historic houses in to be around the park. Uh, the old Gerber mansion, Gerber baby food was
really begun here with, the Gerber’s a little boy that had digestive problems, a baby this and so she took
some peaches from their Orchard, and another things and ground them up.
MS: Oh, wow.
DS: And thus began Gerber baby food.
[EG laughs]
DS: But, um, yeah. It’s, there’ve been still changes. Um, but we at the same time there've been changes,
people are now turning around and taking a look at our history. And, and wanting to be a part of it.
MS: Yeah.
DS: Uh, that’s a wonderful, wonderful legacy.
MS: Yeah, that really is.
DS: Yeah, for example, we just had, we had a 1837 coach stop that had fallen into monumental disrepair
and the City of Saugatuck was trying to help keep it up by painting of the outside, keeping the grounds
moderately [laughs] mowed down.
MS: Yeah.
DS: And, um in comes the gentleman from Chicago who is a preservationist is from top to bottom. He
has put millions into restoring it, and it’s now open, it’s a bed and breakfast. And that place is as, as
really beautiful. Change over time.
�Dawn Schumann - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Meghann Stevens
July 21, 2018
11
EG: Mhm.
DS: But he has kept the entire feel of the interior to what would have been there in the 1850’s. So that's
good change over time.
EG: Right. Absolutely, yeah. Um, part of our, um, part part of the mission with this project, the Stories of
Summer projects is also about uh, the gay community in Saugatuck and Douglas, and kind of looking the
history of that, that population. Those residence in, have shaping Saugatuck and Douglas into what they
are, if you have any? Reflections on that?
DS: I rented, I rented the cottage to the first gay couple to uh, come to the lakeshore. And, they are
wonderful people, we're still friends today. Douglas would not be Douglas without the gay community.
Absolutely no question. Yes. The rest of us have done our part here and there [All laugh] But nothing,
nothing like the gay community. It, it’s interesting because when we in talking to the library who's trying
to build a new building.
EG: Mhm, yeah.
DS: I was in there, my husband and I were in there with several gentleman who were gay and the one
point we made was the, what they had designed was the building that really didn't fit in with the historic
architecture of the community, and they had invested, heavily in making sure that this town. Although
we do not have any ordinance, we couldn’t get that through because we had some realtors who really
muddied the water for us when we tried to get it…
[00:20:25]
EG: Into the preservation ordinance?
MS: Yeah, okay.
EG: Right, yeah.
DS: Preservation ordinance, uh but, it's, it’s been restored in spite of that and I have to say. It is 90%
thanks to the gay community. I sat at lunch today and there we were in a restaurant and there were as
many gay folks is there were families. Nobody thought a thing of it.
EG: Any, any experiences that you’d share good or good or more challenging stories about how thats
changed over time? About uh, how, how welcoming, I mean your sense of how welcoming Douglas and,
and uh Saugatuck have been to?
DS: Certainly better than they were to the Jews. There was sign.
EG: I’ve seen the photo of that, yeah.
MS: Yeah
DS: There was a sign, Jews not welcome. That never happened for the gay community. The way they
came in and they became a responsible part of the community such as the two lads restoring um, that
first building.
�Dawn Schumann - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Meghann Stevens
July 21, 2018
12
EG: Yeah.
DS: Uh, began an awareness among the rest of us that had lived here. That, hey there were some really
nice people…
[MS and EG laugh]
DS: …who happen to love the same things we love, and they were here because they did, and hey
welcome.
EG: Yeah.
DS: And, and that's my perspective, now others may have a different perspective.
MS: Mhm.
DS: But clearly, I'm not, I’m not, uh part of a group that would be anti- because I rented my home.
EG: Right.
MS: Yeah.
EG: For sure.
DS: To, to gays.
MS: Yeah.
DS: And I'll tell you, what Carl and Larry did to the gardens, and to the inside the house it’s never looked
so good.
[MS and EG laugh]
DS: So.
EG: That’s wonderful, yeah that’s a, that’s a great story. I'm just curious if you have any insights, uh,
thinking about this the kind of magic of this place. What do you think it was sort of attracted visitors and
particularly, kind of gay visitors and people to settle here. Do you have a sense historically?
DS: Well, I think it’s, it was probably that they were treated as people, not gay people. Just treated as
people.
EG: An inclusive atmosphere.
DS: It, I think, to, in my experience it's always been inclusive, there may be incidents that other people
had differently but frankly um, I don't think anybody ever worried about it, and so you had a beautiful
community, beautiful climate, historic fabric that I think the gays that came particularly respected and
um it just was, it just worked. I would say we're probably at this point equal number of gays and
straights. My grandson is gay, and it came to me and he said Grandma I have to talk to you and I said
�Dawn Schumann - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Meghann Stevens
July 21, 2018
13
okay and he said, took my hands, and I said so, what do you want to tell me, he said, Grandma, I’m gay,
and I looked at him and I said, Seth I'm straight.
[MS and EG laugh]
DS: And that kind of the way a community is.
MS: Mhm.
DS: You are what you are. I am what I am, so what? Your, I like you. You’re a person. Uh, I think
certainly the particular people such as Ken Carlson, Jim Schimiechen who were so interested and
welcoming and part and really helping to make it a vibrant community, made a big difference. That’s
part of what I like talk about coming in and helping us being responsible for the maintaining of this
community. Because it's never look better in my life.
EG: Well, that’s a great…
MS: Yeah.
EG: Great, optimistic uh, message there.
DS: Good.
EG: In your reflection.
MS: Yeah.
EG: I appreciate that. I want to be respectful of your time.
DS: Thank you.
EG: Because were probably getting, getting to our point to wrap up.
MS: Yep.
EG: Uh, thinking, think, taking the long view looking ahead. You can think about, you know, fifty years
from now. Right there maybe someone listening to this recording uh, is there any message you would
like to share, kind of looking ahead to that that future audience? Listening to this, what you’d like them
to know about…
[00:25:08]
DS: Well they’ll probably…
EG: The community now?
DS: They’ll probably be some of my family, because I was a Goshorn, Goshorn Lake, Goshorn creek? My
daughter is Laurie Goshorn and my Pete, son is Peter Goshorn and they will live here, uh in retirement
because they own property.
�Dawn Schumann - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Meghann Stevens
July 21, 2018
14
EG: Yeah.
DS: And uh, I wouldn't want them to remember how hard day they helped work to help make this
community what it is because my kids always pitched in and um, I would hope that um, in the future
people who would continue to respect the value system and the culture of this town because the
culture is what makes it. The biggest problem we have right now is that so many people rent their
homes that it’s hard to maintain continuity of people that have that we have had in the past. Because
you got people here that have come for the summers their whole lives, and spend the whole summer.
EG: Right.
MS: Yeah.
DS: Because they’ve been teachers or whatever and that's changed. I, I, that's my biggest fear is that
that will change things um, but I, what we have is unique. We really have a unique environment both in
terms of historic architecture and things of that sort. The climate of openness and welcome. I would
hope if it goes beyond the diversity of sexuality and that there are other people would, you know other,
other uh, ethnic groups would be welcome. I do see more of that um, but I feel, I, you know I've worked
hard for open occupancy in Oak Park.
EG: Mhm.
MS: Yeah.
DS: So, what am I, you know?
EG: Yeah.
DS: I see a need for many different racial groups to be here as well. Um, we have a value system, we
have a culture, we have landscape, we have a history, we’ve got it all.
[MS and EG laugh]
DS: And a good education system, our schools are very good.
MS: Yeah.
DS: If I were starving over and raising my kids, I would love to raise them in this town where they can
hop on their bikes and be wherever they want be and there's a defined area that’s your…
EG: Right.
DS: Of the town and um…
EG: Yep.
DS: You've got everything you need within it.
EG: Very good, alright.
�Dawn Schumann - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Meghann Stevens
July 21, 2018
15
DS: Enough?
EG: Anything you want, questions that you have?
MS: Um, nope not at the moment.
EG: yeah, I feel like you had like a self-guided, kind of, it took you through your story.
MS: Yeah. [Laughing].
EG: Didn’t have to do too much here. With that we'll wrap things up. Thank you so much for your time
and sharing your stories here today and this concludes our interview.
[00:28:18]
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1910s-2010s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Various
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Douglas (Mich.)
Michigan, Lake
Allegan County (Mich.)
Beaches
Sand dunes
Outdoor recreation
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Saugatuck-Douglas History Center
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Text
Language
A language of the resource
English
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
DC-07_SD-SchumannD-20180721
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Schumann, Dawn Schwartz Follett Goshorn
Date
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2018-07-21
Title
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Dawn Schumann (Audio interview and transcript), 2018
Description
An account of the resource
In this interview, Dawn Schumann reflects on the changes in Saugatuck-Douglas from when her parents and grandparents arrived to the area through her time working with the Historical Society.
Contributor
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Gollannek, Eric (Interviewer)
Stevens, Meghann (Interviewer)
Subject
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Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Allegan County (Mich.)
Outdoor recreation
Religious camps
Ferries
Gay men
Sexual minorities
Historic preservation
Oral history
Audio recordings
Source
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Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Relation
A related resource
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Sound
Text
Format
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audio/mp3
application/pdf
Language
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eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d335cc04618c7ac77cf60f1cbdfa367c.mp3
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1d9d8cce150bd488b18e995aa1642185.mp3
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e4cb62dcf1fa9e38f50a61c2a2dcc91d.pdf
7de74b90b38973504b5b8fd7c6d38c8f
PDF Text
Text
Mark Randall - Interviewed by Ted Reyda
May 20, 2018
1
Part 1
Unknown voice: Now look at it, does it say R E C? That’s important you’ve got to look at that screen,
don’t, don’t rely on the buttons!
Ted Reyda: Okay, we have uh, Mark here and he’s going to tell his adventures and youth of being in the
area.
Mark Randall: [Inaudible] Um, I was born on uh, November 21st 1950 so, the uh, my memories might be
somewhat hazy until I get to be about 10 years old or so. But uh, but I came up here every year, for two
weeks. My grandparents, um, owned a placed on 64th street, they purchased it when my mom came up
here when she was 17, which would have been about 1942 to go to Oxbow and they came up here to
keep an eye on her and they bought that place on 64th street so obviously when she got married along
with her sisters who all got married and had lots of kids, we would all get um, um. My grandparents had
3, 3 daughters and each family got two weeks up here over the summer. Um [pause] my main, my first
recollections were going to Lake Goshorn which was near 64th street my uh, grandfather knew Gus
Raiser who the uh, the gas station and auto place there and he also owned the property behind it and so
he gave us permission to go there and swim, and that’s where I learned to swim. Um, uh suddenly my
dad tried throwing me out the boat uh, but that didn’t work because I went right to the bottom and
they had to rescue me and then gradually with my uh, grandfather and my mother taking more time.
Um, I also remember going with my grandpa to get his cigar uh, and newspaper at Funk’s which was uh,
in downtown. Uh, and I remember on rainy days we would go to the laundromat which is where um,
really Wick’s park is right now, I believe. Um, and uh there was a miniature golf course there, on nicer
days we would get to play. Maybe we put this on pause and look at the questions?
Unknown voice: Well I think that’s great.
[00:02:20]
Part 2
Mark Randall: So now we have the questions, um the only thing of the first four that I didn't say is
where I lived the rest of the time and uh, are we, we grew up in Chicago, in the southwest suburbs,
Orland Park. And [pause] it asks what our favorite place to eat was, well, one of the things we did as kids
is my mom would take us, my grandparents had this old car, it was in 1936 Buick, it was called
Unbelievable, and um, there were no seats in the back, it was a coop so we would all stand back there
and my parents, my mom would drive. And so we would make it uh, to Oval Beach and we would run
along the beach while my mom looked at the sunset. The idea is we would all, which is something we do
to this day, uh, and [pause] we would pass the Rootbeer Barrel and, but when we were out there on the
beach, my mom said we would not go there unless we stayed dry because she didn't want to wash all
our clothes. So we would go walking along, and then pretty soon we'd be running and pretty soon one
of us would get a little wet and pretty soon you push each other all in and we'd all be soaked. But my
mom wanted the ice cream or the root beer or something so we would all got to go anyway. So that was
a favorite place because uh, the root beer tasted good after being, uh after being there and plus we
could stay out a little later. So, uh, um, did we ever go over to Douglas? Uh, yes we did um, as I grew up
more, um, they tried to teach ten, when we would play tennis and the courts in Saugatuck were our
first choice because, uh, they were closer, um, but if it didn't work, there was uh, a tennis court right
�Mark Randall - Interviewed by Ted Reyda
May 20, 2018
2
where Berry fields is now and we would go there. It was a little bit more of a substandard court, but I
remember going there. Um, and uh, were there other places that were important to us or did you have
a summer job locally? Um, as I got older, of course I did the typical things. You, uh, you grew up and uh,
went through high school, got a job and went to college. So, when I got um, when I got to high school,
we would still be able to come up here for two weeks. But it was, it was more of a problem for me. So I
would generally come up for a period of time if I could with my folks and it didn't have to work and try
and arrange it because it was always something that was still special. Um, I had a very unusual
experience in, while we were down in Timmeny Park working in a restaurant and met, uh, uh, a lifelong
friend who was a seminarian at the time at Saint Augustine's seminary. Um, and so we've hatched a plan
that I would, when I came up here with my parents and he was at school or he was at the seminary that
I would sneak out. And so we did this and I got on a bicycle and rode from 64th street over to the
seminary and it was late, you know, midnight, one in the morning, something like that. And, uh, and uh,
I remember passing the seminary. Uh, it was a vivid marriage because I was scared and, uh, I was doing
something I wasn't supposed to be doing, and uh, but we, I got there and somehow found our way to
the seminarians who are out at the lake, uh, skinny dipping in the boathouse, which was still there at the
time, it had a second floor and, uh, people were hanging out there, listening to music and drinking beer.
And, uh, and, and I think that was one of my first entries into the LGBT community because uh, I started
to realize that I, I got awfully excited about that. I wouldn't take my clothes off for fear of, well, you
know [Laughs]. And so, uh, and so um, so Saugatuck was a special place. Um, I, I said this once in a
speech that I gave here. I had a, I loved old buildings and there were three really prominent ones in my
memory. Um, one was Tera, which we rarely went to, but I think my grandfather took me there once
after I had actually done some hard work for him. Um, uh, another was the Mount Baldhead Hotel.
Which you could see if you went on the ferry or if you, uh, if you played miniature golf there and things.
And the third was a beautiful set of pillars, uh, in front of a, I presume was a Greek Revival House that
was perched on the, uh, along the river. So if you took the, what was then the Island Queen, a precursor
to the Star of Saugatuck, uh, you would see it, as you, as you gently glided down the river, and those
made an impression on me and uh, and it also made an impression on me that there are no longer here,
um and I think that got us, got me started, I think in some ways on the appreciation of old buildings and
the desire to restore them, which we've carried out today.
[00:5:09]
Ted Reyda: And you, what what are those buildings you've restored in the area?
MR: Um, well there are two. Um, this obviously is not the 60s, 50s or 60s. Uh, but, uh, uh, much later in
the last, uh, 10 years or so, we, uh, um, Chris, my spouse is a teacher and so we get our summers off.
And so we hit on the idea of starting to come here and that grew into uh, hosting our whole family here
for the Oxbow um, the same weekend as the Oxbow benefit because my mom was on the board there
for a long time. And, uh, and so we held the, uh, we would come for that weekend, stay at the
Timberline hotel, know, but then we decided to buy a place. We bought our first place, uh, about 12, 13
years ago. Um, and uh, and that was a relatively newly restored condominium. But then we took on a
project, uh, Dan Shanahan's urging when we, we bought a lot on Washington Street and, and uh, moved
the old, what was the remnants of the old Douglas Hotel, uh, citizen in 1934 it burned and it was
cobbled down into a, uh, into a little bungalow with what was left. And uh, that was on the corner of
Center and Washington and they, uh, the owner of that was going to demolish it. And so we bought the
nearest property right next door, and, and, and he gave us that house for a dollar and we moved it
there. Um, and then uh, several years later there was another house, uh, the Gerber house, which was
at Union and South, I believe. And uh, that was also going to be demolished by owner who wanted to
�Mark Randall - Interviewed by Ted Reyda
May 20, 2018
3
build something else there. And we purchased that for a dollar, and, and, since that acquired a lot of the
corner where the old house used to be and moved it there.
TR: Do you uh, have any memories of your mother at Oxbow? As a child going there and observing it?
MR: I don't have any per se, but my mom tells me stories. She said one time she was there doing a
figure study uh, a class, and there was a uh, uh, a woman who was naked, you know, being, uh, being
painted and that, uh, and that I, when I noticed that I was, my mom would take me and put me out by
the water and tell me to behave, you know, play there and behave myself and, uh, but I somehow saw
that, and uh, she I think took a break and went running down and jumped into the water. And, uh, and
so I was horrified by that and went running up and told my mom that there was a bare naked lady down
there.
[TR laughs]
MR: I can't say I remember that, but, uh, um, I, uh, we other memories were of course going to Oval
and uh, walking down towards the channel as I, uh, as I grew older and realized I was gay of course, that
he had a different connotation because we knew there were uh, gay people down there cause they
would be like sentinels up on the, up on the slope for, you know, and uh, but uh, but even then we
remember going down there, you know, during the sunset and [inaudible]
TR: But you never wandered up into the dunes?
MR: Uh, no, I mean, not that, not that I can remember.
TR: Okay.
MR: It took me till I was 34 results to really, uh, except all those, even though, uh, back then the, the,
the, the seminary experience was about 17. So a, so I was a pretty slow mover. I wasn't heading up to
any dunes.
TR: So the area had enough interest where you had to come back?
MR: Yes. In fact, one summer I was, uh, in my senior year, so this be outside, again, this is about 72.
Um, I or summer of yeah, 72 or 71 maybe. I was, uh, we, I had made enough money in summers before
where I didn't need to work much that week, that, that summer and um, we decided it would be really
fun, some friends of ours and I, to come up here to Saugatuck and stay for a summer. So I managed to
get a job at the Ilfarmo restaurant washing dishes and we stayed at a little place. It's a little place it’s
much nicer now it's going to redone. Um, but it, it was a little cottage uh, which was just basically two
rooms right next to the funeral home and, and perched up a little bit, so you actually walk out with a set
of stairs, which is still there. It's still there, but it was much rougher then, didn't have the nice porch that
it has now and actually the dune kept encroaching, so, uh, the toilet, by the time we left, there was a, a
little toilet was the closest thing to the dune and there was this sort of slope of sand behind it that was
kind of close to your uh, feet, um. But uh, so we stayed in that and we had rented that for the summer
and, uh, we would go out on the dunes and, uh, and for sunset, we've never had any money. Uh, and so
we would go out there and watch the sunsets just as much as I did when I was a kid, except that we
would have a bottle of Boone's farm and maybe some other entertainments that, uh, and we would
walk there frequently and uh, stay till it got dark.
�Mark Randall - Interviewed by Ted Reyda
May 20, 2018
4
[00:10:34]
TR: No, no knowledge of uh, Toads, the gay, the only supposedly gay bar.
MR: Um, we, the only knowledge I have of a gay bar was during that same time when I was renting and I
worked at the Ilforma, you could work in late. And I walked by the Blue Tempo, and I would
occasionally…
TR: That is the same place.
MR: Ah, okay. And, uh, I would occasionally get whistled at or you know, uh, get a comment.
TR: But you never went in?
MR: No, I, uh, I, I wasn't accepting of, uh, of, uh, of that. Yeah. So, uh, so it looked at it mostly flustered
me because I didn't really know how to react.
TR: But, yeah, it's wonderful that you've had these positive feelings to come back and then you bring
your family and back and you certainly have a long tradition. I don't know if you want to describe any of
the house that your grandfather had, the family inn?
MR: Well, they were from Germany. Um, so, um, they, they spoke English but with a, with a heavily
German accent, and so there were memories or Germany in every place they had. So the, uh, the
original house there was uh, a cottage. It was a, it had knotty pine, which I remember vividly, a beautiful
warm view. And they had a, uh, you know, a German cuckoo clock that would come out, and, but the,
uh, and, and there, that was the part of the house we could go to, but my grandparents kept part of the
house on the other side of the kitchen that was off limits to us because I think they wanted to keep it
quiet, and, uh, and you have some separation because my mom had five kids, my Aunt Deb had eight,
my Aunt Mony had five, so they had six weeks of this, uh, you know, lots of kids and I think they had to
have some area of, uh, it was 15 acres, so, uh, or it was until they started building on 196 and then they
lost their…
TR: Okay, were there summer gardens or anything?
MR: Yes, they had a beautiful garden, they had a uh, uh, uh a rectangle, a long rectangle of flowers that
were between the two houses. We got kind of the refurbished garage to stay in, all the, all the uh, the
daughters families and uh, and, and that was between them and there was a lot of lawn and there were
a lot of apple trees. Um, there were, there were all around, the circular drive is still there.
TR: Did they spray it to get the fruit or just?
MR: [Inaudible] I don't remember.
TR: You don't remember?
MR: [Speaking over TR] You know, we would come, we would come generally in, uh, late June or early
July, so picking through, um, uh, wasn't ever a part of what we did, uh…
�Mark Randall - Interviewed by Ted Reyda
May 20, 2018
5
TR: And they probably didn't have any pits around here, in Fennville?
MR: They may have, they may have, uh, um, for whatever reason, it wasn't something that would…
TR: How long was the journey from Chicago?
MR: Well, back then it was, uh, probably a good four hours or so. The uh, um, I remember that we
would all pile, you know five kids and you know, into my, either my dad’s car or [inaudible] car
[inaudible] grandfather too. And uh, and I remember one of us would lay on the uh, the back deck of the
window, you know, obviously there were no seatbelts then, but you know, we'd always have to go to
the bathroom and so there'll be lots of stops and we would stop at um, was a Bill Naps, I think it was a or
the Big Boy, and uh eat something on the way. If we're in, and if we were good, we would get ice cream,
uh, and we would get another real good or not. But it was a, it was a incentive.
TR: I don't know if you want to get into, did any of your family take memories and objects from this
place?
MR: [Laughs] Uh, we all have memories, you know, whenever we have a sort of family of union
Saugatuck comes up and now that we, Chris and I have a place here, uh, we've gotten visits from a lot of
the family that we're still in touch with.
TR: And so their, their experiences are very positive then?
MR: Oh, yes, yes. It was a, an extraordinarily warm experience, uh, in the place. You know, you forget
what we had a, we had a family with a bunch of little kids come visit, uh, a few years ago, and we were
thinking, well, what are they going to do? Well between the dunes schooner rides and like the fishing or
whatever, there’s just so much for kids to do here. And, uh, and uh, you know, I, I can't, I can't think of a
child that has had a negative view of, of, uh, of being here.
[00:15:18]
TR: In what ways to have the area changed?
MR: Well, after, uh, you know, moving to California and lots of stuff, it's amazing to me how little it has
changed. But I think I, uh, I would, I would say, you know, certainly it's sad to see uh, there, as I said the,
some of the architectural things, you know, leave, the pavilion of course. Oh, I remember seeing movies
there my grandparents took me to movies there.
TR: That down below?
MR: Yeah, uh, and it was, um, and it was getting kind of tacky, you know, and I don't know that, I don't
have a memory of the ballroom, um, so we probably never were up there for anything. Um, but still, you
know, it was a remarkable building and to see it go, uh, with, uh, uh, which it did when I must've been, I
think about 13 or so when uh, when it burned down.
TR: Did you ever uh do, take sailing lessons?
�Mark Randall - Interviewed by Ted Reyda
May 20, 2018
6
MR: I did, I did. Um, my parents, you know, were, uh, had no end of things to try and uh, try and keep us
occupied. And one of them was taking swimming lessons, uh which we took, I think, uh, I forget where.
Um, what pool or something?
TR: There was a, north of town, a huge pool.
MR: Yeah.
TR: But they closed that because the polio.
MR: Right, so I think that may have already closed, uh...
TR: It was at North Street and, and Holland. Yeah.
MR: Yeah. I know, I've heard of it, but I, I don't, I don't have a memory.
TR: Okay.
MR: But I do remember swimming lessons, but the, the one thing that I did remarkably poorly at, and
our son did too, was uh, sailing at the yacht club. Uh, I you would start on these prants, which were a
flat fronted sailboat, and uh, and it, once you've mastered that, which never did, then you move up to
the lightning’s, uh, which were a bigger, a bigger, smoother boat, uh, but it was fine then it was
memorable, and uh, and uh, even if I do remember getting whacked on the head with it, boom, more,
uh, more than once.
TR: Which for example, are there any negatives of your experiences here, that you can think of?
MR: Um, not any that were, uh, you know, uh, to the place. Um, there was some family dynamics that
sometimes didn't [inaudible] well. Um, but, uh, I, and I remember I have had a lifelong, dread of
mosquito I suppose, but you know, I don’t know where in the park where they have get any less, so I
imagine that was just part of growing up. Uh…
TR: [Inaudible]
MR: Um, not so much, I don’t remember uh, getting that. Um, so it was a pretty much all positive
memory. It was just wonderful to get away, uh, and come here and it was a beautiful place. And my
parents above all knew how to appreciate beauty and they knew how to instill that, both the beauty
itself and the appreciation of it in me. And uh, this is a beautiful place.
TR: And at some point hopefully we’ll have your mother doing an oral uh, session.
MR: And you need to get her fast. She's 93 and she's taking care of my dad a lot, but the uh…
TR: But the, the art work she's done and going to Oxbow, very, very rich experiences.
MR: Yep. It's your, uh, and I think that if there is a negative, that will be when my mom passes away
with, because so much of, uh, so much of the memory here involves her, uh, so. [Pause]
�Mark Randall - Interviewed by Ted Reyda
May 20, 2018
7
TR: Okay.
MR: Two experiences that seem like they might have answer, uh, some of the questions here. Uh, it
asks, did you spend time on the water? And yes, we certainly did. Um, we used to come up here a lot,
even not just that summer bit, uh, that, um, I came after college during college we, we, would come up,
but we had no place to stay and we didn't have the money so we would, uh, we would, uh, you know, go
watch the sunset or otherwise entertain ourselves until uh, a, a, and we'd hang out in front of the, uh,
the old, uh, coral gables, because you hear the music there were along the, uh, along the water and uh,
and then when it got late enough, we would um, park our cars along uh, uh, Lakeshore there where all
fancy houses are, and find one of the pathways and we would sneak by, sometimes the windows were
open until we got out to the beach and we would sleep on the beach until, uh, until the morning. Um,
and the only other water experience is a one time. We decided we were going to, uh, make it to the
other side of the channel, and so we kind of, uh, um…
[00:20:12]
TR: We being your family.
MR: No, no, nobody, nobody else in my family is that stupid, uh, but it was just one of my friends and I
had a, or two of us, two, so three of us total. And we, uh, we decided we were going to swim across the
channel and uh, and, and we did, it was kind of icky, the water and it was hard getting up the other side
once we got there, which probably should have occurred to us before we left. But, uh, and uh, and we
didn't bring enough food and stuff. We would kind of have, have to hold it above our heads, you know,
to get, to get across. So I think that was it.
TR: Okay. [Pause]
MR: [Inaudible] Although my mom um, had five kids to raise. She still would bring us over to Oxbow and
she would still sometimes take classes or paint over there. And so we, Oxbow is it been a part of my life
as long as Saugatuck has. Um, you know, my mom ended up on the board there and so I would uh, go up
with her or sometimes for meetings or things like that. And we, we stayed in the Inn, in one of the other
cottages, uh, which was, uh, rustic even by a college students standards, uh back, back then. Um, when
we were very young, um, we, as I said, we used to go play tennis and one of the rewards for tennis was,
uh, we would, we would go to Recsals and, uh, I, uh, I was partial to root beer floats, then chocolate
shakes, uh, and then chocolate sodas. But uh, but that it's amazing how little that, you had asked what
changes, how little that has changed. That it’s still there, seems like the same experience, it always will.
TRL But you also did the root beer floats at the Root Beer Stand.
MR: I'm trying to remember when the Root Beer Barrel had floats, they had mugs, you know, big mugs
and you can get foot long hot dogs.
TR: Frozen, frozen mugs. Like this.
MR: But we, we did have a hot dogs cause we had just eaten dinner, this was a sunset thing. But the, uh,
but we did have the, the big mugs, and um, I don't remember where there floats or not.
�Mark Randall - Interviewed by Ted Reyda
May 20, 2018
8
TR: Where would you, you cooked at, your family cooked at home a lot. Uh, where did you buy your
groceries?
MR: Um, well that’s another story, they, uh, where or 64th street is like nothing. Like it is now, iIt was a,
it was barely paved. It was a, had a big crown at, so you'd be constantly afraid that old car was going to
go off the road. Um, so, um, but, but you could ride your bike out to a place, I think it's called Hanes or
something like that, which is a, the building is still there right now, it’s say pet health center or
something. Uh, it's right next to where the Burger King is now.
TR: The cat, cat house.
MR: And uh, well that was a, that was like, uh, a, a, a, early precursor of like a 7-11 where you could buy
uh, basic things. And the trick for me was invariably that my mom would want eggs and I would, I would
try and get them home without breaking too many…
TR: On your bicycle.
MR: And I had uh, limited, uh, marginal success, at that, uh but I remember so, so we would get sent up
there. Uh, as far as shopping it itself, was is there a grocery store like Demond’s? I know on rainy days in
addition to doing laundry and we'd go into Holland to buy things. Um, but, uh, but I don't remember.
TR: Was, was your family religious? Did you attend any churches?
MR: Um, we, I don't remember what was there before the St Peter's, now we're Catholic family and uh,
but I do remember a big church being brand new, um, and…
TR: Where your condo was, was where the church was.
MR: Uh, well it could have been, well it was obviously, but I don't remember it. I do remember Saint
Peter's and how impressive it was because it was new and that there was a, uh, there was a building uh,
having, there's a room that was for um, all the noisy kids and, uh, but my, my mom had considered me
graduated enough where I had to go in the main part and behave and I couldn't be back there uh, with
the other kids.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1910s-2010s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Various
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Douglas (Mich.)
Michigan, Lake
Allegan County (Mich.)
Beaches
Sand dunes
Outdoor recreation
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Saugatuck-Douglas History Center
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Text
Language
A language of the resource
English
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
DC-07_SD-RandallM-20180530
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Randall, Mark
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-05-30
Title
A name given to the resource
Mark Randal (Audio interview and transcript), 2018
Description
An account of the resource
Mark Randall grew up in Orland Park, near Chicago, in the 1950s. In this interview, Randall recalls visiting Saugatuck in his youth and living there as an adult.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Reyda, Ted (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Allegan County (Mich.)
Outdoor recreation
Sand dunes
Historic preservation
Oral history
Audio recordings
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Relation
A related resource
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio/mp3
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng