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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6c729b5aec44637ef889f3972dbe9156.pdf
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Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
Fidencio Vasquez Jr. Interview
Interviewed by Norma Gonzalez-Buenrostro
June 18, 2016
Transcript
NG: This is Norma Gonzales, and I'm here today with Fidencio Vasquez Jr., the Second, at the Hart
Library in Hart, Michigan, on this day, June 18, 2016. This oral history is being collected as part of the
Growing Community Project, which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the
Humanities Common Heritage Program.
Thank you for taking the time to talk with me today. I am interested to learn more about your family
history and your experiences living and working in Oceana County. Can you please tell me your full name
and spell it?
FV: Fidencio Vasquez Jr. the Second. F-i-d-e-n-c-i-o V-a-s-q-u-e-z, no middle name, J-r, the Second.
NG: Do you use any accents when spelling your name?
FV: No.
NG: Okay, thank you. Alright, so let's get started. Can you tell me where you grew up?
FV: Can I tell you where I was born first?
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
NG: Yeah, definitely. You can tell me whatever you like.
FV: I was born in Edinburg, Texas.
NG: Alright.
FV: My parents came across from Mexico and I was ten days old when I moved to Hart, Michigan.
NG: Alright, what year was that?
FV: 1955.
NG: Nice. And you came to Hart when you were ten days old?
FV: Yes, I lived in Crystal Lake.
NG: Oh okay, is it far from Oceana County?
FV: Right outside of Hart. It'd be north of Hart about three miles by Crystal Lake.
NG: Alright.
FV: I live down the road from there.
NG: So why did your parents move to Hart?
FV: Back to where we came… that’s when my parents left Texas - Edinburg - we moved to Hart. I lived
outside of Hart until grade school there.
NG: Did your parents have a reason to move to Hart? Were they seasonal workers? Did they have- did
they pick any...?
FV: Well, they started working at a farm right near the area where we lived, which was like a half a mile
from Crystal Lake in that area. They worked for a farm that had cherries and that's where they started.
And my parents bought a house right there, just a little ways from Crystal Lake.
NG: Alright. Do you remember going to the farm yourself at all as a child or was it just your parents that
went?
FV: No, I remember. I have some pictures. I forgot to bring them other pictures of me and my brother
getting new bikes, my second older brother. I had another brother. My first brother was named Fidencio
Vasquez, Junior. He was born in 1946, or ‘48, one of the two. And he died at two months from a tumor
in his mouth. I never got to meet him. And then in 1952, my second brother was born. He was named
Fernando Jesus Vasquez. And then they had me and they named me after my first brother. It's kind of
different because I wished that they would name my second brother Fidencio.
NG: You got that opportunity.
FV: Yeah, I got the opportunity.
NG: That's good.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
FV: Yes. And I remember, I have a picture at home that me and my brother are sitting on bikes. I was
probably seven, eight. And I knew what kind of place we were living at and what my parents were doing.
They worked for farmers right in that area- for one farmer.
NG: Do you remember the name of the farmer or the name of the...?
FV: The name was Mr. Hare. And that's the only farmer that I know that owned that area land was
cherries, apples, that they, whatever, picked or planted. It's pretty much what I can remember of that.
NG: Did you ever pick yourself? Did your parents ever bring you to the farms and...?
FV: Well, my dad's mother, she used to take us with her two daughters and her son. I remember being
there and this picture right here, that's my dad's mom. My grandmother, I grew up with her, too. She
used to take me with her son and me. We used to go to different states like Ohio to pick strawberries.
NG: No way!
FV: When I was little.
NG: Oh, did you like going to the farms with your grandma? Was it fun?
FV: Yes.
NG: Yeah?
FV: Because I just wanted to go, so she took me.
NG: That's good. So, can you tell me more about what your parents did for the farmer? Did they go
ahead and till the land or did they just pick? Did they stay with that farmer every year or did your
parents move on eventually?
FV: Oh, they probably planted trees by hand and picked cherries and apples and peaches, probably.
Those are probably the only three kinds of fruit that I can remember being around that area when I grew
up. And then I walked back and forth to grade school every day, my brother and me, Fernando.
NG: Did you go to school here in Hart?
FV: After the school...the school burned down. It was made out of stone. You know, all grades went to
this school. There was a basement and an upstairs. And I think it burned and then they were building.
So, my parents bought... we moved to Hart when I was twelve on State Street in front of the
fairgrounds.
NG: Yeah, right around here.
FV: Yeah, I was twelve years old when my parents bought a house in…
[music begins]
NG: Oh, I can go ahead and pause it.
FV: Okay.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
EB: So, we were talking about the house that your parents bought on State Street. What year was that
when you guys bought the house?
FV: It would have been [nineteen] fifty-five, sixty-two.
NG: And it was very close to the fairgrounds you mentioned, right?
FV: Yes.
NG: So, you saw the whole fair, and every year you saw how it built from there. Can you tell me a little
bit more about that? How the fairs progressed?
FV: Yeah, I used to go there all the time and I loved the fair. I was a regular, kind of. And I played all the
games that were cheap. And when I was old enough, I don't know when, maybe when I was anywhere
between twelve and fifteen, I helped put up some rides.
NG: So, you worked for the fair?
FV: Yes.
NG: Is it run by the city or is it an outside organization?
FV: It was run through the- what’s it called? Agricultural Council or something, you know?
NG: Right, yeah.
FV: There's a name for it.
NG: Alrighty. So, it's like the Agricultural Organization...
FV: ...Organization, yeah, and they would set up all the rides and I would go. It was… things were really
cheap back then. I had so much fun.
NG: How cheap? Do you remember any prices from back then? Like ten cents?
FV: Ten cents, maybe five cents - real cheap.
NG: So what kind of rides did they have back then?
FV: Scrambler fairgrounds, Tilt-A-Whirl, the carousel with horses...
NG: The merry-go-round?
FV: The merry-go-round. Different kinds of rides, I don't know what all the names of them are but...
NG: That's alright. So, you said that the agricultural organization put that together. Was there any of the
produce that they would showcase at the fair?
FV: Yes, they had different buildings for different things. Horses, rabbits, pigs, lambs, cows. And they had
a commercial building with a lot of the fruits that people grew. They had different farmers come in, put
up their own little displays of everything, and arts and crafts kind of with their kids. How the kids learned
in 4-H. How the kids learn how to bring up their animals. And everybody had their own little animals. It's
very neat.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
NG: Did you ever join the 4-H?
FV: Never did, no. I just enjoyed going to it every day.
NG: That's good. So what else can you tell me about growing up in your… you mention your teenage
years. Did you go into the farm working yourself, or did you move away from that?
FV: No, I went into the farm work. I was, well, as it says in that paper. My mother worked for a nursery
called Hawley’s Nursery. This is very important for you to look at, too. This is... I made this in nineteen...
this gentleman picked me in nineteen ninety-eight. His name is right there. He was introduced to me
through one of my cousins out of Muskegon; he worked for the Muskegon Chronicle.
NG: Okay.
FV: He made the story on how I preferred the farm work. Between when I was ten and fifteen… well, I
was a newborn. Because, well, it says in the paper: I was ten days old, even though I moved here, my
mom worked for this nursery named Hawley’s Nursery. They grafted trees to produce fruit. And my
mother carried me in a basket when I was a newborn. You know, I still lived out of town. They'd quit
working for that farmer and my dad went into truck driving, or working in a factory… working in a basket
factory in Shelby Basket factory. I remember going with him. He worked at night. He ran a machine that
made different blueberry boxes, strawberry boxes. And I remember as a kid going with my dad to work
and then later… well, when I was born, I guess my mom carried me first before I went to work with my
dad. And my mom worked there for forty-five years. And I think I worked for… there was an area farmer
right next to the nursery I was working on. His name was Monroe Piegels [?]. He had the land just down
the street. I worked on the farm doing disking, mowing grass, learned how to trim trees, and worked at
Hawley’s Nursery. The whole Vasquez family pretty much ran this Hawley’s Nursery. He had great big
orchards of trees and all my aunts and uncles were grafters. And then after you graft a tree, on your
hands and knees. You know, you're on your hands and knees, my mom was a grafter. You know you
use… they cut up… my uncle used to go cut off these limbs like this and cut the leaves off where the bud
would produce the fruit tree.
NG: Right.
FV: And my mom would cut the line like this and cut that little butt off with a knife and slip it into the
tree, and then the person behind her would tie it with a rubber band really fast. And I would go behind
with this little bucket and this little lantern in it... kerosene lantern with a bow on top and you put wax in
it and you carry it with a paintbrush. After you graft them, put tape on them, you have to seal them. So,
I did that until I was fifteen.
NG: And after that, did you move on from there and go to a factory or another farmer?
FV: I have a history of working with farmers. On the west side of Oceana County, I started out at
Hawley’s Nursery and then Bob Ryder [?], Jack Hare [?], Lewis Claudie [?], Richie Rider [?], and on and
off now for the last seven, eight years for Joe Daley. I learned how to drive a cherry rollout. It’s a long
machine.
NG: Okay.
FV: And the tarps, you pull the tarps out, they're maybe twenty feet wide, each one. Twenty, twentyfive feet. The machine was probably fifty feet long, the machine was. And I would drive it with a tractor
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
up to the tree to the center of it, and I'd release the levers so the tower would come out and they'd put
it around the trunk of the tree. And then there's another man with a machine that would drive up to the
tree and shake the tree so the cherries would fall off, and I would reel it in with a conveyor belt going,
and the tank was in the back. So, I learned how to do that for seven years, on and off lately, and I still
work there. But after I was fifteen, I started working for Gale’s IGA.
NG: Oh, okay. That one right here. No way!
FV: Uh huh, yeah.
NG: How was it back then?
FZ: It was pretty neat, yeah.
NG: What did you do at IGA?
FZ: Well, I worked in the grocery department.
NG: Okay.
FZ: And I worked for Mr. Gale - Mr. Gale's father - to help him unload the truck. I'd be in the back
working with him alone. They had rollers for the man up in the truck, putting stuff on the rollers, and
we'd stack it in piles, empty the truck, and open boxes and price them. Priced everything and hauled out
to the aisles and we'd stock. And I did a little bit of everything there. I even learned how to work in
produce. They had a freezer storage there where people would come in, rent lockers. And I worked in
the produce department and I helped clean floors. And well, I don't know what year it was… where the
laundromat is right now, that was the grocery store and Gale’s insurance agency was next to it, this little
office. And then down the road, Mr. Gale bought...there was houses on that property. He bought most
of the houses and little by little, he built a new grocery store. I think it was ten years later, maybe?
Somewhere in there? Or maybe not even ten years later, maybe five years later, he built a new grocery
store.
NG: Is that the new one that we have now?
FV: Yes. That whole place was the store. That whole building was the grocery store. And they had the
meat department in the back, our stockroom was in the back, and the freezer department had storage
where people come and rent lockers to put their… buy meats and, you know, or they buy like cows or
something. And then it came in packages and they'd bring it there and put them in a storage room in the
freezer. And then little by little as that store was getting built, I was helping in there, once in a while.
And then I worked in the grocery store and then when the shelves were up, they moved all the
groceries. We did it by cart, carrying anything that was on the shelves and go to stock them in the new
store. So, it was kind of neat, you know. Work here, work here and make sure to bring over here. So,
when the store was... as they were working on it, we were stocking shelves, little by little before they
opened it.
NG: Right.
FV: And I also helped work inside, do some different jobs when they were building floor with Irwin
Gale's son, Dennis Gale. And it went from there. And I worked there ten years. I was twenty-five. And
then I wanted to go to Texas with these friends of mine that were almost like my family, my other mom
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
and dad. So, I went to Texas for a year to Lubbock, Texas, and I worked there at a gas station and I
worked in a garage changing tires and running U-Haul trucks and trailers. I worked there for one year.
NG: And then you came back to Oceana…?
FV: Because I missed my parents. So, my dad and my uncle were working for Oceana Canning of Shelby,
they were truck drivers and they were coming to Lubbock, Texas, to bring a load of canned cherries. And
I asked my dad, can you go ask Mr. Gale if I can have my job back? Then he called me and he said, “Yeah,
you can.” And so, I was excited to come back home. I missed my parents.
NG: That's good.
FV: Yeah, yeah.
NG: So, when you came back you got your old job back?
FV: I got my old job back.
NG: That's great.
FV: And I worked there until 1990. Twenty years.
NG: That's good!
FV: And then I went… okay, let me see. Yeah, after that, I worked for Bob Ryder [?], who was a fruit
farmer. He had many different kinds of fruits: apple, all different kinds of cross-breed apples, peaches,
apricots, nectarines, which you don't find much around that apricots… maybe nectarine trees, now
they're getting more popular. And I would pick every other day and go to the farmer's market every
other day. We had two markets, one in Grand Rapids and one in Muskegon. I worked at both of them.
NG: You would sell the produce that you picked the day before?
FV: Yeah, we'd spot pick the trees. Spot pick, get the good stuff, number one grade and then we had a
number two basket. You know, you buy, you can buy expensive stuff or you can buy cheaper stuff. I
learned how to do that.
NG: That's good. So, you have a lot of skills with agriculture and you're very educated on how to run
farms and stuff.
FV: Yeah.
NG: That's great!
FV: Yeah. And I resigned in 1990. And, I had a friend that was living in Grand Rapids after he got out of
college. And I needed a job and I didn't want to do any more fruit farming or anything, I wanted to get
some kind of... something different. He was a hotel manager for… he worked at, like, a Holiday Inn when
he started and then he was working for another hotel when I went down there from 1990 to ‘95. I was
working in the summer for Mr. Ryder [?]. He's in here, too. His article is in here with mine. [paper
ruffles] There he is right there. This is a truck, it was like a beer truck with the sliding doors and we put
shelves in it to put all our fruit in. We could put four hundred and fifty baskets on both sides. And these
apples were already sorted.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
NG: Okay, for like the grade A?
FV: And we'd take them from the orchard onto the flatbed truck and we'd put them right on the truck
and get more baskets and go get some other stuff, other kind of fruit, and load up the truck. Every other
day we did that and the front. That's...
NG: Yeah, that's my uncle!
FV: …your uncle! I talked to him about this paper the other day.
NG: Yeah.
FV: I said, “Do you have that paper?” He goes, “I don't think so, but I remember it.” And I was going to
bring it down and show it to him.
NG: Yeah, maybe we can have a copy of that, too. This is really cool. I recognized him for a second.
FV: Yeah, he was my dad's friend.
NG: Really?
FV: Yeah.
NG: Small town. [Laughter]
FV: And in the front of the article, this brings down what I did. This is when I started working for him.
That was me. I had long hair. That's my mom. I worked there, too, even before I went to IGA. They
turned...they sold the nursery to four buyers that bought all this acreage and they turned it into a golf
course as my mom was still working there.
NG: Oh, okay.
FV: You can see in the background that they were making grass parts and it was getting smaller and
smaller and smaller and the smallest orchard was the field, or they were doing grafting still. It was
getting smaller and smaller and smaller. And then it just...everybody just...there was no more work.
NG: Is this golfing field the golf…?
FV: The Colonial Golf Course. That whole nursery, that whole area goes all the way back to the highway
and all the way back to McDonald's. That was all fruit, all fields.
NG: Really? No way.
FV: And he had fields out by Round Lake. Big, long fields, almost a half mile long and all my aunts...
twenty-seven hundred trees in each row and by knee, on their hands and knees doing all this grafting.
And then later, they would take them out of the ground and put them in great big containers and bring
them into a nursery, and they'd size them with a grater, the trunks, and then tie them in bundles and
then they’d bury them in the ground in rows, side by side. And people would come buy them in the
spring when it was time to plant them.
NG: Okay.
8
�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
FV: Yep, long story short, from there to there. So, let's go back. This is what I preferred after I got out of
working at Gale's IGA in 1990. I worked for Bob Ryder [?].
NG: And then when did you finally stop going to the… you said you still continue to...
FV: Yeah, I continue. I was working for my friend. He hired me. He worked in like a... he was a clerk but
he moved to another hotel. He was a banquet manager. Rent banquets… had sliding doors and this
great big, it's like a hall, you know, sliding doors. And I started working in the restaurant as a busboy.
NG: Okay.
FV: And then I moved up into the banquets department and I learned a lot there. I worked a half a year
there in the winter, and then I come back, work half a year on the farm for five years. I went back and
forth.
NG: That's good. And you continue… you mentioned before that you continue to do that now. So, do
you do that currently right now or are you…?
FV: No. I worked for Bob Ryder [?] until 2000.
NG: Okay, so sixteen years ago.
FV: I was there from 1990, I worked for him for ten years until 2000. And then I did a little bit of farm
work on the side, a little bit, you know, until I got a real job. I got into laborers union. My office was out
of Battle Creek. One of my friends was Fernando's best buddy. He was working for the paper mill in
Muskegon, as I recall. It's not there no more. But that's where I started working as a laborer, working in
a power plant. My brother and me did. He's like twelve, fifteen years younger than me and we got jobs
there. And we're so excited, you know, I was working for a job that was paying eight dollars an hour
when I left. Well, when I was working in Grand Rapids, you know, they paid a little more over there and
more than farming of course, and then I got into the laborer’s union, which I worked for part of West
Michigan from top to bottom. The office would call me and tell me to go, well, you got to go to the
paper mill for so many weeks, or you work for different contractors and you do different things and you
go there and work depending how many days, weeks or months. And after you finish one job, they can
relocate you to another one to a different place.
NG: Did you like that moving around?
FV: Yes!
NG: It was fun.
FV: Because I worked and there was a power plant in Muskegon - that one with a big tower. I worked
there [loud noise] and then one at a paper plant in Manistee. I worked way down in Irons, Michigan in a
generating plant they were building. I worked for different contractors and did different types of work. I
did scaffolding. For people to get up on, to do their work, I had to put everything together. So that was
really exciting. I did that for… I resigned four years ago.
NG: Wow, so what do you do right now?
FV: I just work, I'm disabled and I work for farmers. One farmer and I work for a friend - handyman
service.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
NG: Okay.
FV: I paint, we do odd jobs, and I work for the fairgrounds - Parking Supervisor - with my friend that was
working there. Well I was even working there for a while. I was a maintenance man. Then I wanted to
quit so I gave the job to one of my friends. He's been there fifteen years and I've been helping park cars
for seven years and now I'm pretty much just a volunteer. I want to get out and do things for the
community.
NG: That's good. That's really good.
FV: Yeah.
NG: So, you work so much with… did you start a family of your own at some time?
FV: Never been married, never had any kids.
NG: Alright. Well, I think...is there anything else you'd like us to share with the research program? I
mean, we got a lot, but is there anything else you'd like to mention?
FV: Well, like…?
NG: Any advice for a young person who might listen to this recording who lives in Oceana County?
FV: Well, if you like to work, just keep working. Do what you want to do. And if you can do it, do it.
NG: Definitely.
FV: And I know I'm getting a little older now. I can't work as hard as I used to, but I still keep on moving
and I keep busy and, you know, whatever you'd like to do, keep doing it or just change from job to job.
Don't stop, just…
NG: Definitely.
FV: ...keep yourself happy. [Laughter]
NG: Thank you so much! Well, thank you so much for your time and for sharing your memories with me.
And I believe this concludes our interview.
FV: Okay, thank you.
NG: Thank you!
10
�
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f380cbb2234dde816be2e5ae8987261d.mp3
07cbf47fee293cb84448c0ca531f3516
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Oceana County Migrant Labor History Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Shell-Weiss, Melanie
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Growing Community: A Century of Migration in Oceana County." This project was a collaboration between El Centro Hispano de Oceana, the Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society, and Grand Valley State University funded by a Common Heritage grant from the United States National Endowment for the Humanities. The materials in this collection document the history of communities in Hart, Shelby, and Walkerville and explore themes of migration, labor, religion, family, belonging, national and cultural identities, regional, national, and international connections, and citizenship.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Oceana County (Mich.)
Source
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Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
El Centro Hispano de Oceana; Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society
Relation
A related resource
Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage project)
Identifier
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DC-06
Format
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application/pdf
image/jpeg
audio/mp3
Type
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Text
Image
Sound recording
Language
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eng
spa
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oceana County (Mich.)
Hart (Mich.)
Shelby (Mich.)
Farms
Farmers
Migrant agricultural laborers
Hispanic Americans
Account books
Diaries
Oral history
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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DC-06_Vasquez_Fidencio
Creator
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Vasquez, Fidencio
Date
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2016-06-18
Title
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Vasquez, Fidencio (audio interview and transcript)
Description
An account of the resource
Oral history interview with Fidencio Vasquez, Jr., the second. Interviewed by Norma Gonzalez Buenrostro on June 18, 2016 in Hart, Michigan. English language. Fidencio Vasquez, Jr., the second, was born in Edinburg, Texas in 1955. The son of two Mexican immigrants, Fidencio and his family moved to Hart, Michigan when Fidencio was ten days old. Throughout his life, Fidencio worked for many different businesses throughout Michigan, including the local Hart fair, many fruit farms, grocery stores, and labor services.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Gonzalez Buenrostro, Norma (interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oceana County (Mich.)
Hart (Mich.)
Farms
Fruit growers
Agricultural exhibitions
Grocery trade
Audio recordings
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Sound
Text
Format
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audio/mp3
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c722ea729681a3aef4d6402c0f781069.pdf
becb709cedcc1ebe4a9a4705e7c17b0f
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Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
Jerry Spencer Interview
Interviewed by Walter Urick
June 18, 2016
Transcript
WU: My name is Walter Urick, and I am here today with Jerry Spencer at the City of Hart Community
Center in Hart, Michigan on June 18th, 2016, for the purpose of attaining the oral histories of the
Spencer family. The oral history is being collected as part of the Growing Community Project, which is
supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage
Program.
Jerry, thank you for taking the time to talk to me today. I am interested to learn more about your family
history and your experiences living and working in Oceana County. So, let's just start out with some easy
questions. State your full name, Jerry.
JS: Jerry Gene Spencer.
WU: And Spencer is spelled how?
JS: S-p-e-n-c-e-r.
WU: Now, when were you born, Jerry?
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JS: April 9th, 1932.
WU: And where were you born?
JS: In Hart.
WU: And your father's name?
JS: Eugene.
WU: Spencer?
JS: Spencer.
WU: And your mother's name?
JS: Leona McKee.
WU: Alright, Leona McKee. McKee was her maiden name, is that what you’re telling me?
JS: McKee was her father's name. And then her mother moved her up from Grand Rapids and she
married Charley Schultz.
WU: Okay. When you use the name McKee, is that part of the McKee family of Pentwater? No relation?
JS: No relation to my knowledge.
WU: Well, your dad at the time of your birth was about how old?
JS: I would guess about twenty, twenty-two, maybe.
WU: Okay, and let's talk a little bit about... well, before we talk about your parents, did you have
siblings?
JS: No, I was the only child.
WU: Okay, well, let's back up then to your parents. Start with your dad, in terms of what he did for a
living. Describe it as best you can.
JS: He, my dad, farmed his whole life on our farm. That is still... not farming anymore, but it's still located
just outside of Hart.
WU: And that's part of the industrial park now?
JS: Right.
WU: When your dad was farming it, can you describe the acreage, for example?
JS: The base farm only had thirty-six acres, but my grandfather - his dad - had purchased probably farms
in the county that probably they had two to three hundred acres altogether.
WU: Alright, well, then you're taking me back to another generation - your grandfather - and what was
his name?
JS: Edward.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
WU: So, we have Edward Spencer and you grew up on a thirty-six-acre farm, is that what you're telling
me?
JS: Yes.
WU: Okay, well, let's just talk about that thirty- six acres for a little bit. What type of farm was it? What
type of crops or activity was it?
JS: It started out when my dad was a child - it was a dairy farm, kind of.
WU: Really?
JS: Back then they didn't have many, maybe ten or twelve cows that they milked and then they
eventually turned into all fruit.
WU: And when you say fruit, what type of fruit?
JS: We had a little bit of everything. We had sweet and sour cherries, apples, plums, peaches, pears.
WU: How many acres do you think were in an orchard situation?
JS: The whole farm was an orchard.
WU: Really? Except, obviously, for the house and the barn.
JS: Except for the house and the barn and what used to be the barnyard and stuff like that.
WU: So out of the thirty-six acres, would it be fair to say you probably had at least thirty-two, thirtythree?
JS: I would guess, in that area.
WU: Of tillable or producing land.
JS: Of tillable property, producing land.
WU: Now, talking about your father. I know that he died relatively...
JS: At forty-nine.
WU: So, when he was forty-nine, he died. What were the circumstances?
JS: Heart attack.
WU: That's what I thought.
JS: He had one when he was forty-four, another one when he was forty-six, and one when he was fortynine. And that got him and he... back then they couldn't do anything.
WU: Right.
JS: He was on a blood thinner and that was all. He couldn't work, he couldn't do anything those five
years.
WU: Alright, so the last five years of his life he basically was disabled.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JS: He just sat in the house.
WU: Oh my. Well, it must have put a little pressure on you and the rest of the family.
JS: I was going to college and just got out of college at that time. So, I never went to the service because
right at the time I got a call to go for my army physical, my dad had a heart attack and I was the only
breadwinner of the family at that time. So, I got a farm deferment... what they called a farm deferment
at that time.
WU: We’ll revisit that in a moment. Right now, trying to get a feeling for your dad, what he did. When
he was healthy, basically, he was a farmer, that’s what you're telling me?
JS: Yes, that’s all he did.
WU: And he did the dairy farm and the yearly part?
JS: Yes, and then it switched to just beef cattle.
WU: To beef cattle?
JS: For a while and then they eliminated all the livestock and just went strictly fruit farming.
WU: Now, was he in partnership with his dad, your granddad?
JS: Yes, he was in partnership with my grandfather, Edward, and they had leased - oh my gosh, I don't
know - outside of our farm, they had bought a farm up a road called the Sturge Farm, and that was
twenty acres, I think. And they had a farm over to Mears on Round Lake and they farmed all of them.
WU: So, your dad... was Marshall Spencer a part of that or was…?
JS: He was...no, he was... Marshall was my dad's brother.
WU: Right.
JS: Younger brother and Marshall went to New York and farmed for a few years and then came back to
Michigan and bought a farm out east of Hart.
WU: Okay, so that was separate…
JS: Separate, yep.
WU: That wasn’t part of…
JS: My dad was the only… they had, my grandfather, they had four boys and three girls. And my dad was
the only one that stayed at home and farmed.
WU: Okay.
JS: So, when my grandfather died, when my dad got the home farm and then that's still there.
WU: Now, your mom, did she at least in your formative years, your early years, did she work outside the
home?
JS: She worked at Stokely’s [?].
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
WU: Okay, seasonal work?
JS: Yeah, in Fruitland [?], that they had in Hart.
WU: And if this may be a hard question to answer, but when you think of your dad, what do you think
he was most proud of having done in his life?
JS: I don't know, except I know he was a very generous person and trusted everybody. My dad said if
there is somebody - and him and my mother, I know, used to get in big growls [?] over it because he
would loan anybody anything that they wanted. And so, my mom would say, well, you're never going to
get that back. And my dad would say, well, maybe not. We don't need to worry about it. And so, I would
think that, you know, I looked at him as for that, that he was…
WU: Very generous.
JS: Very generous and very trusting. And I know he always told me, he said, “if there's somebody that
don't trust people, then he can't be trusted.” My dad always went in that philosophy so…
WU: That's a good line. That's a good philosophy, really.
JS: So, my dad was easygoing; my mother not quite as much.
WU: Well, speaking of your mom, I'll ask you the same question I asked about your dad. Is there
anything special in her life that she was very proud of?
JS: I can't think…. I know she did a lot of work with the church and at [?], you know, they... well, you're
familiar with the congregators that they had…
WU: Yes.
JS: And that probably was something that she would be proud of…
WU: Being a part of that women's society group in the church.
JS: Yeah.
WU: Well, I’m going to back up now and take you through your childhood, your education, and so on.
You've already told me you were born in, what, ‘32?
JS: Thirty-two in Hart Hospital.
WU: Thirty-two in Hart… in the old Hart Hospital. Actually, that was the real old Hart Hospital, before
the new one was built.
JS: Correct.
WU: And so, I am assuming your education was all through the Hart Public School system?
JS: Hart Public Schools and then I went to Michigan State.
WU: Well, let's back up and keep you on Hart schools for a little bit. So, you went through the Hart
schools. You graduated with the class of?
JS: Fifty. Nineteen fifty.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
WU: Nineteen fifty from the Hart… and at the time you were living at the home place here, just west of
the fairgrounds, more or less.
JS: Correct.
WU: And let's talk about your childhood a little bit. Do you have any real vivid memories from your
childhood concerning maybe the friends that you had or the activities that you participated in?
JS: Oh, I had friends. You know, Jack Osten-Sacken, back in elementary school, was out at our place
almost every weekend. And of course, he didn't… his father lived in New York, so he kind of adopted my
dad as his dad.
WU: Sure.
JS: And he always talked about that. And in high school, I didn't go for sports because I was too small.
So, I was what they called the manager then and I got to wash all the football uniforms and polish the
footballs, pack them for the games and stuff like that. And so anyway, it was a lot of fun. At the time,
you don't think so, but when you look back on it, it was a lot of fun and good times.
WU: And made you part of the teams and the coaches.
JS: Oh, yeah.
WU: In those years, as I recall, as a young boy, those were some real good athletic teams for Hart.
JS: It was, yeah. We went to the quarterfinals in state when my junior year and we won the conference,
I think, all four years that I was in high school.
WU: I think it was the semifinals, wasn't it?
JS: Was it the semifinals?
WU: Yeah, you got beat by Kalamazoo, St. Augustine.
JS: St. Augustine, an all-boys school.
WU: An all-boys school before they changed the rules.
JS: Yeah.
WU: So, I think that school had something like three hundred boys and...
JS: We had like one hundred and fifty.
WU: And you had one hundred and fifty. See, so basically what they started doing, any school that had
three hundred boys would be treated as if they had six hundred kids and they would not be playing in
class C. But that's an aside to this interview. [Laughter] That’s something that even upsets me as I think
about…
JS: Back then, yeah.
WU: But you mentioned Jack Osten-Sacken. Did you have any other reasonably close friends as a kid, so
to speak?
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JS: I had Don McLennon and Dick Curtis. Dick and I probably was real close; Dick lived with his
grandparents and we did a lot together all through high school and after high school, even, until we both
got married.
WU: Yeah, unfortunately, Dick, was...
JS: Yeah, got killed with a freak accident.
WU: Freak accident, yeah. I'm sorry. I remember reading about that, hearing about that.
JS: Working for the city and a utility pole, well, that's when they were building the new hospital.
WU: Right.
JS: And he had climbed up on a pole and it wasn't planted in the ground and it fell and killed him.
WU: Now, as a child, I assume you have a lot of farm-type chores. Is that a correct assumption on my
part or…?
JS: Yes, when you grow up on a farm, you’ve got to go home after school and do some things. And back
when we had cattle, I’d just feed them the grain and stuff. And then, of course, after we got rid of the
cattle, it was spraying. And I had to drive for the sprayers when I could, when I was home on Saturdays.
Every Saturday we were spraying and I got a nickel a tank, I can remember, for driving the tractor. And I
was so little at that time, when I first started, I don't know, probably five, six years old that I couldn't
turn corners. So, my dad... but I could keep it straight down the rows. So, when we would come to a
corner, my dad would climb down off the sprayer, between the sprayer and tractor, and grab the wheels
and turn the corner and hit it back, then jump back up on the spare.
WU: So, your dad would be doing the spraying. You were basically driving the tractor that pulled the
sprayers, is that what you're telling me?
JS: Right.
WU: And you're spraying all kinds of, what, cherries?
JS: Cherries, apples, peaches, plums, pears.
WU: Well, at that point, you…
JS: At that time, they sprayed by hand. They didn't have power sprayers.
WU: Sure, so that's why it was a two-person job, is what you’re telling me. But even taking you back into
maybe junior high or maybe fifth, sixth grade, did you have cattle that you had to deal with in those
early years?
JS: I never had to do much with the cattle.
WU: You didn't have to. You didn't have to worry about getting up and milking them?
JS: Oh no, I didn't have to do that.
WU: Well, you got lucky then. Alright, so your orchard experiences and the orchards came along, about
what stage of life were you? Were you in junior high or…?
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JS: Let me see. I can remember, we were all in orchards in… ‘44...that would be ‘54… probably about the
time I was in high school.
WU: That's when you switched...
JS: From cattle to fruit farming.
WU: Cattle to fruit farming. Okay, and of course, that takes a while to get the trees planted and get
them turning [?] and producing. But when you use the language fruit farm, you know, are we talking not
only your thirty-odd acres and some of these other properties as well?
JS: Yeah, most all the other properties we had were properties that had orchards on, that the people
that owned them didn't have the equipment and couldn't take care of them. So, like, we would maybe
take care of it, spray it and harvest it and get half or…
WU: Get a percentage of the crop.
JS: ...a third or a percentage of the crop.
WU: Okay.
JS: Yeah, that's how that worked.
WU: So, you would end up helping out on these leased places.
JS: Right.
WU: And the farm, the other farm that you and your dad, well, your dad and his father purchased also.
JS: Yeah.
WU: Well, backing now into your educational background. You've obviously graduated from Hart High in
1950. Let's go forward. I know you went to college. Just indicate what was going on in your life and
what... where you went on to school and what type of program you've gone into.
JS: Well, I went to Michigan State the first year. First year I was there, I had picked Pomology, which is
the study of fruit, because I was familiar with that. And I didn't feel it was challenging enough, so I
switched to Ag. [agricultural] engineering and I don't know if that was too challenging or what. And then
I switched back to Ag. mechanics. And then my last year - I went five years - my last year, I taught labs
and in some of the Ag. courses for professor, as well as going to school.
WU: You were a teaching assistant then?
JS: Yes, just an assistant in the labs, yeah, helping out. And then I graduated in ‘55.
WU: From Michigan State with a degree in?
JS: A B.S.
WU: A B.S. degree, a Bachelor of Science degree. In what field? Agriculture? General…?
JS: My degree was in...it come from the School of Natural Science and Resources and I came home then
and farmed and I farmed probably for...
8
�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
WU: I'll get to that in a little bit.
JS: Okay.
WU: I want to keep you sort of in the educational part because, in fact, I even want to take you back to
Hart High. Was there any particular teacher that helped you, that you were really close to or had some
real fond memories of? Let's do it at either the elementary or high school level, either one.
JS: Oh, in elementary, I can remember Mrs. Northrup. Well, I don't know.
WU: That would have been about the third grade.
JS: Yeah, third or fourth grade. Fourth grade, nope, fourth grade I was in the Critic [?] Room, which was
where the... back then, they taught kids to teach school. They didn't have to go to college.
WU: Oh, that's right.
JS: And they had a Critic Room… they had fourth and sixth graders.
WU: This is called Oceana Normal or something like that in order to get country school teachers
certified.
JS: And so, they taught us, they took kids out of the fourth grade and the sixth grade and put them in
what they called the Critic Room. And then those young people wanting to be teachers would teach us…
WU: ...would practice on...
JS: Yeah, would practice.
WU: Well, that's interesting. I hadn't heard that before. So, I know various people who ended up being
school teachers in these one room schoolhouses and part of their education was they'd have to come
right down to Hart Public Schools. And so, they were practicing and they were being critiqued and they
were being taught how to be teachers. Is that it?
JS: Right, and that's what that room was for.
WU: And you were part of that guinea pig class?
JS: Yeah, I don't know how long they had that. I know I was in it in the fourth grade. I don't think they
had it because I can remember where the room was. And when I was in high school, it was gone.
WU: It was gone, yes.
JS: It was the sixth-grade room then or something. I don't remember.
WU: Well, you mentioned Mrs. Northrop. Once you go into high school, any particular teacher?
JS: Mr. Sheehan [?], probably.
WU: He was the math teacher.
JS: He taught math. And he was very strict, but I get along really good with him.
WU: He was demanding.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JS: He was demanding, yep. But you learned a lot in his class and of course, then the coaches, because I
was the manager, Mr. Swanson and Jack Epenstall [?], whose names are familiar to you I’m sure.
WU: Sure.
JS: And Jack, we get to see Jack almost every year in Florida. He's… of course, Swanson passed away
back… I went to his funeral back probably ten years ago.
WU: Yes, so those were the men in the school system that influenced your life, at least, or people you
could relate with.
JS: Yeah.
WU: Well, from a college standpoint, were there any Oceana County kids that you either room with or
got rides with or…?
JS: Uh, I drove back and forth and, yeah, Gene Robinson.
WU: Oh, Gene, okay.
JS: Harley Hodges, Rich Hodges, Don McClennan. And we were all going to State at that time and we
rode back and forth together on weekends or when we came home.
WU: In terms of living arrangements, did you live with any of these folks or…?
JS: No, I lived in the same dorm the first year down there. And then I moved out of a dorm into a co-op
house because it was a lot cheaper.
WU: That's what I did when I went to college! I ended up in a co-op house, so I guess we had a similar
experience.
JS: Yeah, and then we had to... in the co-op house, I know we worked… you had to put in six hours of
work a week and they had certain jobs you could do. And I got to be Steward. I was Steward, for they
made me be Steward for a whole year, which we had to do all the ordering of the food and stuff, which
was a good experience.
WU: Sure.
JS: Then I worked at the campus press as a freshman for two years, two nights a week. I went to work at
1:00 in the morning and you had to work until you got the paper out, what they did was printed the
State News. And I started there as a kid that sat at the end of the press and we had a counter and maybe
two hundred papers would go to this dorm and two hundred would go to this dorm or something. We
had to bundle them up and set them aside for delivery. And then the freshmen quit. And the woman
that owned it asked if - Harley Hodges and I was working there - asked if we go in the press and Harley
said yes. So, we knew nothing about it, but we soon learned. And so, then we got to be pressman, which
we were in the big bucks, and we got a dollar seventy-five an hour for running the press.
WU: And so, were you still in the co-op or were you out of the co-op?
JS: I was in the co-op. The co-op was only a block from where the press was.
WU: So, you still did the work of the co-op. You were making money on the side.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JS: I made enough work on those two nights. I'd end up in the spring with more money than I started
with in the fall.
WU: One way to work your way through college.
JS: It didn’t cost then, you know, tuition was only forty-seven fifty a term.
WU: Yeah, was that a class or the whole thing?
JS: That was for ten weeks for the whole thing.
WU: So less than fifty dollars! You could…
JS: ...was tuition.
WU: That was your tuition.
JS: Yeah. The only other expense was books and...
WU: Sure, and your own living.
JS: It cost us a hundred and twenty-five dollars a term for room and board in the co-op.
WU: Yeah, those days have long gone, financially.
JS: Yeah, so you're talking about five hundred dollars a year…
WU: ...to go to school.
JS: ...outside of books.
WU: Right. Well what I want to do now is talk a little bit about after college and you start your life's
work, so to speak. Can you just sort of take me through that? You graduate from college and I'm not
sure if you're coming home to farm or if you're moving from there into other types of work?
JS: I came home to farm because my dad was unable to do anything then, and so I farmed.
WU: So, this would be nineteen fifty-five? Fifty-six?
JS: Nineteen fifty-five, fifty-six. And let me put an age bracket with that. Let me see, my dad died when
he was forty-nine, which was in fifty-nine. My dad died in fifty-nine, so then I farmed and gave my
mother a share of the farm, fair share of the profits, and took care of the farms. And then in fifty-nine,
1959, I got married and, let me see, then I went to work for FMC Corporation and I think I was thirtyfour so that would have been.
WU: Alright, let's just back up. Let's take the nineteen fifty-five to fifty-nine portion of your life. There's
four years there. Your dad, at this point, is not able to do anything.
JS: Nothing.
WU: But your grandfather had passed on by then.
JS: Yes.
WU: Alright.
11
�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JS: He passed on when I was in… when did he pass on? I can't exactly remember, but when I was in
college.
WU: Alright. So, at this point, you were basically it in terms of running the local family farm, so to speak,
plus any of the leased farms.
JS: Right.
WU: How did you handle that? That's more than a one-man job. What did you hire people or how did
that work out?
JS: Basically, no, I had, once in a while, I had... well, I had to have people help trim the orchards.
WU: Alright.
JS: And I hired a couple of people from Walkerville.
WU: Are we talking about local folks or migrant?
JS: Yeah, Ed Lathrop and [?] Brumley was my main pruners. Those guys were really good, a lot better
than I was. And then if I needed help in the spring, Albert [?] - you probably remember Albert used to
work for me?
WU: Yeah, he graduated with me. He was a little old for our class.
JS: I'm sure. [Laughter] But Albert used to work for me when I needed help doing anything, spreading
fertilizer, picking up brush or whatever. Albert, I could always depend on him.
WU: Then in terms of harvesting these crops?
JS: That's the best years of my life. And we had, back then, of course, we didn't have mechanical
harvesters.
WU: Right.
JS: We had pickers. Our pickers come up all the way from… well, most of our pickers came from
Arkansas and Missouri at that stage of my life. And nice families and I really enjoyed them.
WU: Are these with Hispanic backgrounds or were these…?
JS: These weren’t, these were all Southern people.
WU: Caucasian folks or…?
JS: Yes, and then it switched. Well, that's a little bit later, if you wanted to go into it later.
WU: Yeah, let’s just talk about...
JS: That was just the [?] experience. That's where the pickers came from was Arkansas and Missouri for
us.
WU: Arkansas. How did you find them?
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JS: You know, I don't know. They just showed up and they'd show up and say, “do you need help?” And
we'd say, “yeah.” And we had buildings for them to live in. Of course, the buildings are still there and
they’d stay for the harvest and go back. One family particularly back then I can still remember; Woods
their name was. Johnny Woods and I, the year I graduated from college, they went on then down to
southern Michigan and picked apples. And when I graduated from college that year, I went down and
stayed with them in a little shack. We used to… our pastime at night was watching mice run around and
picked apples with their family. And that was an experience and a half. I always wanted to make the fruit
circuit and see what it was like, but I decided that it wasn't that much fun.
WU: So back in those early days, you're telling me that people would migrate from the South? It
probably was hot; they wanted to get into cooler climates. Their backgrounds, did they… what did these
folks do back in Arkansas, any idea?
JS: Yeah, well I could carry this family. Well, no, that's a family that we got a little bit later. Woods’, I
don't know what they did for a living. I do know that my wife and I was married back several… oh,
probably this happened about twenty years ago. Three o'clock in the morning, I got a telephone ring and
I wondered who in the world would be calling me. And his daughter was five years old when they picked
cherries for us. And she got thinking about us in California and might have been drinking or something
and called us at three o'clock in the morning.
WU: [Laugher] Midnight, there!
JS: I hadn’ t seen her for... she was probably in her thirties then or something. So anyway, that was those
early years that those people came. Then later on it switched, of course.
WU: How many people would it take to harvest the cherry crop?
JS: We had probably about forty, counting the kids.
WU: About forty, counting the kids all out there picking. And did they all stay on your place or…?
JS: Yeah, but we had a few local people that picked probably maybe ten. But other than that, the rest of
them all stayed there.
WU: Well, just for the historical aspect of it, take me through a typical cherry-picking day. What you
would be doing and what time would the day start? What would you have to do to be ready to get
moving that day?
JS: Usually the night before you'd get cherry lugs out and scattered where they could get them without
going too far from their trees. The pickers had rows and I wasn't out there when they started because
my pickers used to go out and wait for it to get light enough so they could see the cherries and then
they'd start picking probably five o'clock in the morning. And when I'd get out there, I'd go around and
pick up the cherries that they had picked.
WU: Now, you'd be driving a tractor with a trailer?
JS: We had a little skid on the back, no wheels on it, just like a stone boat. And we'd pile the lugs on
there. And I usually had a high school kid that helped me do that. And so about ten o’clock,
eleven o’clock in the morning, we'd have a load. We’d haul all our cherries in a pickup. We'd have
eighty, ninety lugs of cherries.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
WU: Okay, so let’s back up. You had to get those eighty or ninety lugs of cherries out of the orchard. You
did that by driving around and picking them up from where these families were working and they would
actually stack them. So, you only had to go to a certain pile.
JS: They might have like four lugs - it’d depend on the number of cherries - you might have four lugs in
this stack, maybe two or three down the row, they'd have six or eight lugs stacked up.
WU: You’d pick them up, put them on the skid, drag them to where the pickup was.
JS: Right and set them on the pickup, load them on the pickup.
WU: And then where would you go with that load usually?
JS: We delivered several places: Stokely’s, of course would be one, Fenton’s in Mears was another one,
Hart Cherry Packers downtown at that time. And we depend and we just delivered all of them.
WU: So, the first all that you took in would be about what time?
JS: Probably about ten to eleven.
WU: Alright. Somewhere between ten and eleven, you drive to whatever cannery you're going to that
day and it would be weighed in and…
JS: ...they’d dump the cherries, put your lugs back on the truck…
WU: And then you’d weigh out?
JS: ...take them back to the orchard and scatter those lugs out and then turn right around and gather up
a load. And about two o'clock in the afternoon, we’d take in another load.
WU: That would be your second load.
JS: And then we’d come back, we'd scatter those out and the pickers would quit usually around four
thirty or five o'clock, and we’d gather them and then take them in after supper, usually, someplace.
WU: So basically, you're making three runs to the canneries?
JS: That’s what I did, three trips a day.
WU: Three trips a day and then that last trip that might take you a little while because everyone's
coming in at the same time and you've got to get in line, as I recall.
JS: You’d take those… I’d take those back out to the farm and dump the lugs off at the orchard and then
come back up to where the farm buildings was and by then the pickers, most of the pickers, would be
sitting around visiting. And so, I’d go out and we'd sit and visit for a half hour or an hour and go to bed.
WU: In terms of paying the pickers, did you do that…?
JS: On most Saturdays.
WU: Every Saturday you would… that’d be payday.
JS: I'd be paid cash.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
WU: Oh, you paid cash, not checks.
JS: No, and most of it we gave out tickets, little tickets. For each lug, they'd get a ticket. And when it
come Saturday, I'd go out Saturday afternoons after I got the cherries in from the morning and we’d pick
till noon. I’d go out in the afternoon with a bundle of money and pay them what they wanted. And some
of them wanted just enough money to buy groceries with. And in fact, that's what most of the families
did. And so sometimes I didn't take that much money. And then when you got done picking for the year,
then they'd turn in the rest of their tickets and they'd take that money and go back home usually. And
with some families, I guess that's pretty much the money that they had from down there. I know they
used to pay… they had what they called burial fees that they had to pay to take care of their burials, and
they would use that money to bring them up to date and then live on down there. So, it was fun. I
enjoyed those… I enjoyed the pickers.
WU: Do you remember what you were paying per lug?
JS: Back then, it was about fifty cents.
WU: That’s what I thought. And so, you would have… did they get a punch card or was it just a ticket per
lug?
JS: Just a ticket. Yeah, it was about an inch by two inches.
WU: And it was a ticket that they could not duplicate or…?
JS: I never thought about it.
WU: You were trusting.
JS: I don't think they ever did duplicate them, to my knowledge. But I suppose in this day and age,
somebody would.
WU: Certainly, with the technology.
JS: But back then, they didn't even think about it.
WU: In terms of getting the tickets, you were telling me you picked up six lugs here and eight lugs here.
When did they… did you give the tickets every day, at the end of the day?
JS: I’d give them to them as you picked up the cherries.
WU: Oh, so as you picked up the cherries…
JS: If you had four lugs, I’d give you four tickets.
WU: So, someone... you would actually hand the tickets to one of the pickers there?
JS: Right.
WU: So, they'd see you coming and you would be... whoever you hired might be loading them up while
you're…
JS: ...giving out tickets.
15
�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
WU: ...giving out tickets. So that was done simultaneously and that was your record and it was up to
them to hang on to them. You didn't even keep a record.
JS: I didn't keep a record, no.
WU: You didn't write down, “Smith had so many and Joe had so many”?
JS: No, I had no idea at the end of the week how many they had.
WU: And, well, you knew how many tickets you had to start.
JS: I suspect that they, you know, if somebody runs short of money and needed two or three dollars,
they'd probably go to one of the other families there and say, “Do you have any money? I’ll give you
these.” So, I think they probably switched tickets back and forth sometimes.
WU: That didn't bother you.
JS: No, that didn't bother me a bit. But that's how we paid back then. And this would have been in the
sixties, probably, fifties and sixties, and then our pickers all changed after that.
WU: Alright. Well, let's talk about that, the change in the type of folks that…
JS: For us, the family in Arkansas and Missouri that was coming up - and once you had them, they came
every year - couldn't come anymore. And I had a couple, an elderly couple, the last name was Kreals [?];
they were from Alabama. And he had a son, Johnny, with a big family, and he had a son-in-law called
H.B. Holland. And so, they all came up and then I had a family from Florida - our pickers basically came
from Alabama and Florida. And in Florida one year, all our pickers came from the same town in Florida.
WU: And they were Caucasian?
JS: Yeah, all Caucasians. We had one of the couples, he was a janitor at the hospital and his wife was a
nurse. The other one was a blacksmith in the town. The other one was a district manager for the
Whataburger stands in Florida. And plus, he ran the stand at Busch Gardens, Whataburger. It was like a
McDonald's. And they’d come up, he took his vacation and it was nice. They all knew each other. Every
Sunday they'd have a picnic at Crystal Lake. They all take a dish to pass and go over there and swim and
have a picnic, all our pickers together. And it was just one big happy family. And that was… but H.B.
Holland, I remember he had two daughters and two sons and him and his wife, and they had to pick him and his wife had to pick - twenty lugs a day. And one of his sons had to pick sixteen. The other one
had to pick ten and his two girls, they had to pick fourteen. And when they got that amount of cherries
they could quit. They were done for the day. Sometimes they were done at two thirty, three o'clock in
the afternoon. I’d come back from my afternoon load and, particularly him, he'd be sitting in the shade
in a chair with a beer, enjoying life. And he said, “I really like this.” He said, “I don't have a worry in the
world up here.” He said, “the only worry I have is where my next row is.” He said, “I have nobody calling
in that they can't show up for work today.”
WU: Well, you were very fortunate then, you had people…
JS: Nice families.
WU: They were nice families, they were very functional, and they were basically trying to finance their
own vacation, it sounds like.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JS: This was their vacation. They got out of the heat...
WU: They got out of the heat, they came up and picked cherries, and made a little money to finance it,
maybe a little extra to take home.
JS: A funny thing, just last week I come home and my wife said, “you got a telephone call you have to
make and it'll take some time.” And I said, “who is it?” She said, “I'm not telling you.” And I said, “come
on, you got to tell me before I call.” And she said, “you’ll know, when you call.” So, I called this number
and my wife had written it down. And this woman answers. She said, “Well, Jerry says that this is Judy
Kreal [?]. And she was thirteen and they picked cherries for us. And that was the last year they picked
for us was ‘73. And she says, “whenever any members of our family get together,” she says, “all we talk
about is the fun times we had at Hart, Michigan.” And she says, “I pull it up and I see the farm buildings
are still there.” And she says, “we had to call you.” And she says, “I'm trying to get a couple of my
brothers and sisters, we’re going to fly up and we want to visit you this summer.” So, I don't know if
they'll make it or not.
WU: Well, that's amazing. But that tells you the close relationship you had.
JS: Well, she said, “my daddy made us work so hard when we were up there.” She said, “we’d think we
hated it.” But she says, “when we look back on it,” she says, “it was the best time of our life.” She says,
“on Saturday mornings, all those pickers let their kids... what they picked Saturday mornings was theirs.
They got the money for that.” And she says, “my daddy,” she said, “Saturday mornings let us have the
money.” She reminded me of that, which I knew. And she says, “we had our own money for the first
time in our life that we could do what we wanted to with.” And she says, “we had so much fun and
everybody was so nice to us. We just love you and your kids.” And I was probably on the phone with her
for an hour and then she sent on Facebook a picture of her to Joany, our daughter, because I don't have
Facebook or anything. And I tell you what, I certainly wouldn't recognize her. But then she was a
thirteen-year-old girl in ‘73.
WU: Some years have gone by. [Laughter]
JS: But we still maintain communication with them. In fact, Judy and I, three years ago when we went to
Florida, we met a cousin of hers and her mother who used to pick for us that laked in Florida for lunch
one day.
WU: Well, moving back then to your farm and your dad passed away and now you're into the ‘60s. You
were married what year?
JS: Fifty-nine.
WU: And you married whom?
JS: Judy Pangburn, my next-door neighbor.
WU: So, she's a gal right from the community and you were married and your family… you had how
many children, Jerry?
JS: Three. Two girls and a boy.
WU: And their names are?
17
�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JS: Jennifer Purdy now and Jeff Spencer and Joany Small.
WU: Okay, and Jeff, do recall what year he was born?
JS: He was born in [nineteen] sixty-one.
WU: Alright.
JS: And Jenny was born in [nineteen] fifty-nine. Jeff was born in [nineteen] sixty-one. Joany was born in
[nineteen] sixty-four.
WU: Okay, so those are your three children. Then we sort of ended up with you back on the family farm.
But I know for a fact you didn’t stay there.
JS: Right.
WU: Can you help me with that transition? What happened in your life that caused you to leave the
family farm, so to speak?
JS: I was contacted by fellow, John Roth, from Fremont who worked for FMC Corporation in Ag.
[Agriculture] chemical business, and they were looking for salesmen for this area. And he asked me if I'd
be interested. I thought about it and thought, yeah, that’d work out okay. So, I took care of the farm
nights and stuff for probably three or four years or maybe longer than that. And my wife took care of
the harvesting in the summer, picking up the cherry lugs and hauling them. Except at night I would take
in the last load usually for years. And then moving on from there, later in life, I had an uncle who was a
warehouse manager at Stokely’s and he retired. And then he came out and did the spraying and stuff on
my farm, did all the work and he and I basically harvested the fruit then and then I retired, what,
twenty-three years ago. Then I sold the farm to the city.
WU: Sure, let's go back to your starting a new career. You're a sales person.
JS: Yeah.
WU: And you're selling for?
JS: Ag. Chemicals.
WU: Ag. Chemicals.
JS: Fruit growers only; we weren't in the row crop business.
WU: Alright, so you're dealing with… so you’re selling fruit chemicals. Does this require you to be visiting
farms or…?
JS: We were a service-oriented company. We sold directly to the growers. We sold through service. If
you had a farm, I’ll use Fox’s as an example, because they were one of my biggest customers. I went
through their orchards every week, and in their case, made recommendations on what they should be
using. I knew the number of tanks that it took to spray each crop that they had. I ordered to spray
material. They would set it right on their farms for them. And told them when they should use it. And
that's how we did that. That was a lot of service.
18
�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
WU: Alright, so physically you would be there. You would look at the leaves on the trees, make a
determination on…
JS: What they needed.
WU: What they needed, based on what you actually saw.
JS: And we’d try to recommend the material. I always tried to recommend material that was the most
economic for them that would still do the job.
WU: So, and you’re using your background from your college days. I assume you had lab facilities that
you could send stuff into?
JS: Well, yeah, Extension, too; Michigan State was good, but we had... what was I going to say? I lost my
train of thought here. The service part was we were the only company that really serviced orchards like
that. We got a little more for our chemicals, but we could save you money during the year, too, and
what you used and in products like that. So, and once you got a customer, he was yours. So, yeah, you
pretty much had job security. And then I worked for them for twenty-two years.
WU: Let's just leave it with them for a few moments. I'm trying to understand the regional area that you
covered. So obviously, Oceana; were you beyond Oceana County?
JS: Oceana, Mason, and Newaygo Counties.
WU: Alright, those were the three counties that you would have picked up clients, visited their orchards,
and made recommendations.
JS: Right.
WU: And would that be a year-round job or was this more or less a seasonal?
JS: It was a year-round job. Over the summers, of course, we were busy. The winters you spent at
shows, putting on meetings for growers…
WU: Educational-type meetings.
JS: Educational-type meetings for any new products that were out, going over them.
WU: And educating yourself, I assume you had to go to conferences and so on.
JS: Right. If you are in a business like that and I suppose it was the same with you, too. You learn from
this grower that has a problem and you find out how it works for him. So, then you know, the next guy
and you learn really from the people you’re calling on, too.
WU: Sure. Well, apparently you worked twenty-three years for this company. And then what happened
after that?
JS: They sold our sales group; we worked for FMC Corp. and they had two divisions. Our division, which
was called the direct sales - we sold directly to growers -and then they had a Fairfield division because
FMC also produced a lot of chemicals. We had our own chemicals and this division sold chemicals to
distributors and other dealers. And so, they decided that to get rid of the direct sales force because
there was friction always between us because they would want to sell a dealer and the dealer would
19
�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
say, well, you were out in the field selling growers; I’m not buying your stuff. And so, they sold us and
we were purchased then by Conagra Foods, which was grower service in Michigan. And I worked for
them. I told them I'd work five years and then I was going to retire and I did. And they hired me to mesh
the FMC sales force in with theirs. They never really worked out that good. We were a service-oriented
company with FMC, and they weren't. They were strictly sold on prices and…
WU: ...pushing their product.
JS: ...pushing their products. And our salespeople didn't like that. However, the five years I was there,
we only lost one salesperson and the year I left everybody quit from FMC that they had. So, and now
they're working for all other companies.
WU: Yeah, so basically, you had a twenty-three plus five or twenty-eight-year career in sales and service
to the agriculture community. Oceana, Mason, and Newaygo. Is that sort of a fair, quick summary?
JS: Yeah, I had the same territory all those years.
WU: Well, after you retired, did you continue on with any type of work for…?
JS: Well, we still had the farm.
WU: Okay, so now you're back to doing farming.
JS: Yes.
WU: And you continued to do that up until the time you sold it to the city?
JS: Sold it to the city, right.
WU: Okay, what year was that? Do you remember when the sale was made?
JS: Boy, I don't.
WU: And that was for the industrial park purposes.
JS: Yes.
WU: You retained at least the home place and the barn, is that correct?
JS: I retained the frontage.
WU: Okay.
JS: Well, my mother, in the meantime, remarried and the house was separate. And I sold the buildings
and I didn't... I sold everything to the city so they could annex it.
WU: That’s right.
JS: And then I had five years to buy the frontage back, which I did. And then, of course, I sold, you know,
where Rennhack’s [?] is. And we still got the rest of it.
WU: Alright, so you still own...what?
JS: The farm buildings and, well, about four acres, probably.
20
�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
WU: You still own four acres there. Well, of course, farming has changed a lot during your lifetime. What
do you see are special challenges that farmers face today?
JS: I think probably they're big; they, you know, they keep buying and expanding and I was never... not
my way of going, I guess, or everybody that does it seems to come out doing well. But I, because of that,
you know...
WU: The corporate farm way is what's happening.
JS: ...is what's happening. And I don't know if it's good or not. I still think, you know, I always said, “give
me forty acres, something that your family could take care of. And if you could sell most of your stuff
retail, you could make a really good living.” And farming’s a good way of life. I don't know, there's just
something about… I used to just enjoy driving through the orchard, spraying at night and watching the
fruit grow and on the trees. It's a good feeling.
WU: Just being part of God's Earth, so to speak.
JS: Regulations - it's changed so much. Regulations on chemicals, what you can use, what you can't use,
when you can use it. And some of it’s fine and some of it is stupid.
WU: It just makes it more difficult to do your life's work.
JS: Yeah.
WU: Well, Jerry, I know you've been very involved in the community and I think its part of your oral
history. Why don't you just briefly state some of the organizations you've participated in and taken a
leadership role?
JS: Oh, my gosh.
WU: I know, it's a long list.
JS: Well, I was starting out back when I was in the business, I guess, they had a biology club - and I think
they still have one, I don't know - that we got started and that was for fruit growers. And then I became
a Commissioner, County Commissioner.
WU: Oceana County Commissioner?
JS: Oceana County Commissioner.
WU: Right.
JS: And I said at the time when I got it, I said, “oh, when I get to be seventy, I'm done.” And I did ten
years and I resigned.
WU: So, for ten years, you're a commissioner.
JS: I was commissioner. I was on... in the meantime, then I was a member of the District Health Board.
District Health Five and then District Health Ten and through all that turmoil. And a member of the
Health Board, when we built the District Health Building out here.
WU: The Malburg [?] building.
21
�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JS: ...in the Cooney place, you know, and I was on the Workforce Development Board for Muskegon and
Oceana County for years. Then after I was on as a business person, first I was on as a county... to
represent the county, Oceana County. But then when I resigned from being a commissioner, Paul Roy,
who was the head of it at that time, said, you’ve got to stay on our board. So, I said, “but I can't.” And he
said, “yes, you can.” So, Jack Cheever [?], he said, you’ve got to have a business. So, I said, “well, I don't
really have one anymore. I'm retired.” So, he said, “well, get one.” So, I went to Jack Cheever and I said,
“Jack, can I be a consultant for you?” Jack said, “any day of the week,” he said, “you certainly can.” I
said, “okay.” So, then they listed me as a... because the state of Michigan, if they would check, they
listed me as a consultant.
WU: Alright, so for what organization?
JS: The Workforce Development.
WU: Oh, Workforce Development. Okay, I missed that.
JS: Workforce Development for Muskegon and Oceana Counties. We were together; still are, kind of.
And so, but I finally got off of that. I'm still… I'm chairman of the City Planning Commission. I'm on EDC,
Executive Board of Directors. I'm on the local Emergency Planning Committee Board. Yeah, so, I'm still
involved enough to...
WU: Well, I commend you for all your service.
JS: You have to keep busy.
WU: Sure, so that’s what you're doing in your retirement days: you're a volunteer, you serve on a lot of
these boards. Jerry, when someone listens to this tape, which they'll be able to fifty years from now. But
what would you most like them to know about your life and maybe the Hart community? Is there
anything special that you would like to say?
JS: Well, I was born and raised in Hart and never left. When I worked for FMC, they wanted to move me
out east and give me a big territory. And I turned them down. And I know… well, you know, Fred Reilly?
WU: Yes.
JS: I worked with Fred, I worked under Fred when I was first hired here. And Fred said you shouldn't do
that because he said they'll never, you know, it’ll really hurt you in the long run, you know. So, then it's a
year after that, Fred got offered a job out east, the same job I was offered a year before, and he took it
and they eliminated him a year after that. And so, I was glad I didn't do that. But no, I was born and
raised in Hart and it's a good community to live in. And I think especially the last ten years, it has
become more progressive. And I can see a lot of good things that's happened the last ten years. And I
think there'll be a lot of good things happen in the future.
WU: Any special advice you'd want to give a young person who may listen to this tape?
JS: Not particularly, I think you just have to do what you think you should be doing and stick to your
guns. And I don't know, other than that, things will fall in place for you if you work hard.
WU: Is there anything else that you would like to share that I may not have asked you about? Something
that you might want to make a record of?
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JS: It seems like you've covered things pretty good.
WU: Well.
JS: I think the most enjoyable part was - in the fruit business, anyway - it was, of course, we came up
with… we had a shaker, but it was a limb shaker, which is one of the first shakers that came out, but that
eliminated pickers. And I kind of miss that era; that was fun when you had families come up. And apples;
I had a Spanish couple that picked my apples for a few years and, boy, they were good. They still stayed
in the area. They, I think, now work for Tim Tubbs. I run into them every once in a while. They were…
WU: They're not migrants anymore. They live in the…
JS: They live here year-round.
WU: And do you remember their names?
JS: No, I don’t.
WU: Okay, well, I just want to thank you, Jerry, for your time and for sharing your memories with me.
And this concludes the interview. Thank you very much.
JS: Thank you. You did a good job.
23
�
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/34173090a508e2ef3773523bb978c562.mp3
6456720df95745ed7ac0a5aa55aa1145
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Oceana County Migrant Labor History Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Shell-Weiss, Melanie
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Growing Community: A Century of Migration in Oceana County." This project was a collaboration between El Centro Hispano de Oceana, the Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society, and Grand Valley State University funded by a Common Heritage grant from the United States National Endowment for the Humanities. The materials in this collection document the history of communities in Hart, Shelby, and Walkerville and explore themes of migration, labor, religion, family, belonging, national and cultural identities, regional, national, and international connections, and citizenship.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Oceana County (Mich.)
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
El Centro Hispano de Oceana; Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society
Relation
A related resource
Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage project)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
DC-06
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
image/jpeg
audio/mp3
Type
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Text
Image
Sound recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
spa
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oceana County (Mich.)
Hart (Mich.)
Shelby (Mich.)
Farms
Farmers
Migrant agricultural laborers
Hispanic Americans
Account books
Diaries
Oral history
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
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DC-06_Spencer_Jerry
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Spencer, Jerry
Date
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2016-06-18
Title
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Spencer, Jerry (audio interview and transcript)
Description
An account of the resource
Oral history interview with Jerry Spencer. Interviewed by Walter Urick on June 18, 2016 in Hart, Michigan. English language. Jerry Spencer was born in Hart, Michigan in 1932, as the only child of a farming family in Oceana County. He grew up on a thirty-six acre dairy and fruit farm that was passed down the generations from his grandfather. He graduated from Hart High School in 1950, studied Agricultural Engineering and Agricultural Mechanics at Michigan State University, and later married and worked at FMC Corporation before serving as a County Commissioner for Oceana County.
Contributor
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Urick, Walter (interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oceana County (Mich.)
Hart (Mich.)
Farms
Farmers
Fruit growers
Michigan State University
Agricultural engineering
Agricultural mechanics
Audio recordings
Source
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Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage)
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
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Sound
Text
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audio/mp3
application/pdf
Language
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eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b64d4505d42db2ebb99537979c3b8c11.pdf
5d497eaad098b7e503a6fba2a49b0361
PDF Text
Text
Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
John and Wilma Riley Interview
Interviewed by Alan Moul
June 18, 2016
Transcript
AM: This is Alan Moul and I'm here with John Riley. That's J-o-h-n R-l-e-y…
WR: R-i…
AM: R-i-l-e-y. And Wilma, his wife, W-i-l-m-a. And the date is June 18th, two thousand sixteen. And this
is part of the oral history being collected and its part of the Growing Community Project through Grand
Valley. So, we're going to talk today about the Riley history in Oceana County and growing fruit,
vegetables, Christmas trees, whatever they would like to talk about. So, John, I guess, where do the
Rileys start in Oceana County? And how did they get here, maybe? Or what are you remembering about
that?
JR: My grandparents came from Alpena area and established what we call the home farm. And my son
lives there now. And I have a place up on the hill just adjoining.
AM: From Alpena then.
JR: Yeah.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
AM: Now, were they farmers there or purchased the farm or what?
WR: No, they had emigrated from Canada.
AM: Oh!
WR: Both his grandparents and also his grandmother's parents came from that area.
AM: Okay.
WR: They came first to Alpena to work in the lumber business and then moved to Mears and his
grandma and grandpa were Richard and Clara Isabel Riley [?]. And they, first of all, became managers of
the old hotel that was there in Mears.
AM: Okay.
JR: At the railroad station.
AM: Was that in town there?
WR: Yes.
JR: There was a branch that went to Pentwater and there was a triangle there and one went to Hart and
they were able to turn the engines around. You had to have a triangle to turn them around.
AM: Well, sure. Yeah, okay.
WR: His grandmother, who was always known to us as “Bel” or Isabel [?], her parents were Alexander
and Caroline Henderson. And the original home farm that John referred to was purchased by Richard
Riley and Isabel from her parents.
AM: Okay, so that would have been originally Henderson's then.
WR: Yes, in the deed.
AM: Now how far back does that deed go?
WR: It would have been in the late eighteen hundreds and I can't give you an exact date on that. His
uncle, Bill, was born in Alpena. And I think that the year of his birth was eighteen ninety-three. So, it
would have been shortly after they came from Alpena and lived there in Mears.
AM: And so that's how they started farming then? They started on that piece of ground.
JR: Yes.
AM: How many... was that a forty [acre farm] or was that? A lot of the farms were quite small back then.
JR: It was a forty.
AM: Okay, yep. And did they grow fruit or what did they do? Do you know?
JR: We've always been known as a fruit farm. And of recent years, twenty years ago we got into
asparagus. Other than that, it was all fruit. Cherries are our main crop, apples, a few peaches, which
none of us like.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
AM: [Laughter] I’m familiar with that.
JR: It takes a lot of [?], they have fuzz that itches.
AM: It does. [Laughter] And the fair is going on at the same time.
WR: But, we like to eat them.
AM: Oh yeah. [Laughter] So then you started farming… now, you yourself, when did you come into the
picture then? I mean, did you work on the farm growing up, as a kid and all?
JR: Oh, yeah.
AM: Always been on the farm.
JR: Oh yeah.
AM: Okay.
WR: His father, Clayton Riley, took it over when his dad died. His dad died very suddenly in nineteen
twenty-seven, just before John was born and his parents then moved to the home place to be with
Grandma Riley. And then eventually Clayton and Flora became the owners or managers, anyway. His
grandmother held the title to the lands until after her death. They managed and everything was under
their care but she was still owner of the property, which is interesting.
AM: Okay.
JR: She didn’t want to let loose.
AM: Didn't want to give up control, huh? That’s understandable.
JR: And she didn’t control anything, but that was her security, I guess.
AM: Yeah, mentally, anyway, it was yeah. So how many brothers did you have?
JR: Two brothers and two sisters.
AM: Okay.
JR: There were three boys and two girls.
AM: Okay. Did they all farm then?
JR: No, I’m the only one that...
AM: You were the smart one that stayed on the farm.
JR: You said it! [Laughter]
AM: We all know all the jokes about how much money does it take? You know, you farm till it's gone
and all that. [Laughter] So then you continued, probably, to… unless you've got like a timeline that you
want to go through?
WR: No, no. This is just about the Hendersons.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JR: Everybody that owned the farm expanded, you know.
AM: Right. Okay, yeah.
WR: It was interesting, just recently - and I read this in an old copy of the Mears News - and it tells that
the owner of the piece of property that we now own and live on, a part of the farm was sold to a man
named Mr. Pike. And Swift, in his little paper, said, “I presume,” something to this effect, “I presume
that when Mr. Pike finishes this transaction that he will call it Pike's Peak.”
AM: [Laughter] Up on the hill, huh?
WR: Yeah, yeah. And it's, to this day, it's still called the Pike Place.
AM: So, did land… did you refer to pieces of land by names like that? Like today we… I know we had
them on our farm.
JR: Every piece of property had to have a name because when you went to the field, you had to know
where you were going. And often they took the name of the people you bought from.
AM: We had some “by the rock.” There was a big rock. “By the rock” or “north of the woods.” But you're
right, usually the previous owner or… because we tried doing a number system one time and there were
too many numbers, you couldn't remember them all.
WR: Right.
AM: So, yep. Let's see, so what do you… you served in World War Two, right?
JR: Yes.
AM: So, at some point you went off to that and then how did the farm carry on while you were gone
then?
JR: Well, it was still in the family farm. And my dad and mom farmed it and I went to the service right
after school so I hadn’t really gotten started in it.
AM: Okay, so you were nineteen or so.
JR: Yeah. When we came back, then we… I decided to farm and started there.
AM: Did you have hired hands or migrants or Mexican helpers or what did you have at that point? I
know on our farm there was a lot of Southern workers.
JR: Yeah, we had Southern people and we had housing for them that was a bear shelter.
AM: Sure. Wouldn't pass now, would it?
JR: No, no, no, no, no. In fact, the house where we live was one of the houses that the pickers lived in.
AM: Okay.
WR: But not the house that we live in now.
JR: The site.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
WR: Yeah.
AM: Okay, there’s pictures here.
WR: ...of some when they were still picking cherries by hand. I found these last night and this is John and
one of the older people. What was the older man's name?
JR: Mr. Hilt.
WR: Mr. Hilt, yes. And he had his own little part of the… he lived in one of the old buildings here at the
farm. I brought that picture because it shows the old buildings at the farm.
AM: Now, how many migrant workers do you think you had at the peak… would you have had
harvesting cherries?
JR: We never picked; most of my life, we’ve mechanically harvested. We had a crew, though, that came
in and picked and they hauled them over to the plant in Hart - the Stokely plant.
AM: Sure.
JR: And they brought their people with them.
AM: Crew leaders with big trucks, like with a canvas top. I remember that, barely, but I do remember
that.
JR: And then, from then on, the Labor Department got in it and every year we had to make
improvements. And we have quite nice labor housing now.
AM: Right, sure.
WR: At one time, after his father died - John's father, Clayton, died - and I can remember doing the
payroll and it was for over sixty.
AM: Okay.
WR: But that was, originally, when a family would come they would all pick under one name. And that
built up Daddy’s Social Security.
AM: Sure.
WR: And then, you know, the government regulations changed. And then we had to use the name of
every individual.
AM: Right.
WR: But we weren't long in that because then we went to mechanical harvesting.
AM: Yeah. Now you had - when you did start mechanically harvesting - you had a Friday shaker, right?
JR: Yes.
AM: Okay, and that was two frames that came around the tree and there was a conveyor. We had a
different kind, so I'm having trouble remembering exactly. But everybody kind of chose the one that fit
their farm and the one they liked the best.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JR: It had two inclined planes that got most of the cherries, some went over the edges, but they went
down to a conveyor and the conveyor went from there, right into the cherry tank.
AM: Okay, what year do you think you started? Did you put cherries in water before you mechanically
harvested at all?
JR: No.
AM: Never did.
JR: No.
AM: Okay, just when you took them to the plant and dumped them in the big tanks.
JR: Yeah.
AM: Okay. And I remember the long lines with the juice running everywhere from the lugs.
JR: Yes.
AM: You could hardly walk across the trailer because it was so sticky it would just pull your shoes off,
almost. [Laughter] And then, so we started mechanically harvesting then and so you could cover more
ground. I mean, now you could plant more acres.
JR: Yeah. I don't know how many pickers we’d need to have now to take care of the one shaker. And
we’ve got two.
AM: Now they have a wraparound...
JR: Yeah.
AM: ...shaker that shakes the trunk, yeah, a one man...
JR: An upside-down umbrella, I call it. [Laughter]
AM: Right, yep. Was there any backlash from the migrants when the shaking started because they were
kind of losing their part of their season, anyway.
JR: There was incidents around but we never had any.
AM: Okay, good.
JR: They would go out and slit the canvases and there wasn't much of it.
AM: More frustration probably than anything, I think.
JR: Yeah.
AM: Tell me a little bit about the people you did have working for you. I know some people formed
relationships with the people and became good friends and is there any memories you have of that?
Any specific people or…?
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JR: No, not really, because my uncle, Bill, my dad's brother, had a crew leader and we didn't have a crew
because we had enough help that we handled the distribution, throwing the boxes off and picking them
up and hauling them to the factory.
AM: So, you didn't interface with the people a whole lot then? Not like a crew leader would.
WR: Remember Mr. Hilts and Vern, they came every year.
JR: Over years, yes, they came. That's when we handpicked.
WR: Yes.
AM: Did you ever visit any of them…
JR: Yes.
AM: ...in their homes in the south?
JR: Mr. Hilts in Muskegon, we have been there.
AM: Oh, he was in Muskegon?
WR: Yeah, he’s from Muskegon.
AM: Okay, so there were local people, too, that drove up and worked?
JR and WR: Oh yeah.
JR: And we had a cabin for him.
AM: Okay.
JR: He was almost part of the family.
AM: Sure. It was a different time.
JR: Yep, and when he went home, when I was a little boy, I cried. He was a storyteller and I’d go out and
he’d sit and puff on his pipe and tell about the woods and he worked for the lumber company, lumber
camp.
AM: Sure, okay. So, then your kids, Mark and Daniel, the boys, started farming with you then. And when
would that have been?
WR: When, well, actually we got our first shaker - the Friday - when Mark was still in high school. In fact,
he was fourteen years old the first summer that we had the Friday.
JR: We had to weigh it down so he could see over it - tilt it - it was, you know, flexibility. But he would
walk on his tiptoes all summer peeking over that thing and it had limb shakers at that time.
AM: Yes, I remember that; we had one a different style. Do you remember, did the first shakers… I seem
to remember seeing one that was on a harness, a guy carried like a chainsaw on an arm - very
lightweight. But was there something like that or am I imagining?
JR: No, there were those that somebody that had a few acres.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
AM: Okay, and they didn't last long.
JR: No, no.
WR: They were limb shakers.
JR: A lot of work and you had to catch them on something canvas and dump them into a box.
AM: And it was an idea in the beginning, wasn't it? It was somebody's idea, other than hand picking.
[Laughter] Yeah, there's all the old stories of all the broken ladders and my brother and I were talking
the other day about the nine foot. They always wanted a nine-foot ladder. Well, you didn't want to give
many of them out because they’d stand on top of that and pretty soon you'd hear “crack” and down
they'd go. And I just remember that we’d have to fix the nine footers.
JR: We had six and eight, most of them. Two or three tens. But, the top step was quite big, was quite
large, and that was quite comfortable to stand on.
AM: As long as you could hold a branch.
JR: Yeah.
AM: Yeah, never let them do it today.
WR: Yeah, I can remember in my day picking cherries that I could position that ladder so I could get up
there and sit on that top board and pull the cherries to me, you know, to drop into the bucket.
AM: How many lugs could you pick in a day? Do you remember?
WR: I think my top picking was fourteen lugs in one day.
AM: Wow, those were what? Twenty-two, twenty-four-pound lugs, something like that?
WR: And I think it was like over four hundred pounds.
AM: Okay.
WR: I made one time [laughter], but that was because I picked under the authority of an older brother
who took no mercy...
AM: No.
WR: ...on me at all.
AM: Get to work, huh!
WR: Yeah.
AM: Older brothers can do that, I guess.
JR: But one of the interesting things when we were kids, we had a five-gallon milk can and we put trays
of ice in that and we had to carry that around, people to people…
AM: ...to give them drinks.
JR: ...down the row to give them a drink. We had a dipper.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
AM: Yep. [Laughter]
JR: And we had one guy that he chewed tobacco and a lady who lived in Pentwater, they drove in every
day and she got that dipper and she got around and drunk from the handle where nobody else could do
it. I said, “that’s funny, you drink just like the guy next door!” She spit it out and carried her water from
then on.
AM: [Laughter] I remember my dad taking jugs of half frozen… he’d freeze it and then he'd fill the top
with water and take it out and they wouldn't drink it. They said, “well, just throw it under the tree over
there. It's too cold. It'll make us sick.” They wouldn't drink that ice water. They'd let it warm up. It was
just strange to me.
JR: I never heard that.
AM: What other memories do you have of those days of more hand labor, you know?
JR: Well, when we had to pick up the lugs right under the tree, there'd be a stack of six, seven to ten,
maybe; if it was a family, twelve, fourteen. And we would pick up three at a time with a handle and we’d
put our knee under it and grab it right underneath. And we always paid for the pounds, so we had to
weigh each one.
AM: Okay. I think that was quite common. I know Munger did that a lot and he had a lot of cherries, I
guess.
JR: And we had to set the scale back to the weight of the lug.
AM: The empty log.
JR: And every night my mother would average it out and we would either come up a little high or a little
short. We had to set the scale back the next day to compensate. She wanted to pay the right amount.
AM: Okay, yeah.
JR: You know, you could gain a pound on every lug, you know, but she was very conscious…
AM: Very honest about it.
JR: ...very conscious.
AM: It's kind of like getting wet apple boxes back when you took dry ones in. You lose money every
time. So, let me ask you, what asparagus… you said you got into asparagus. What year would you say?
JR: Boy, I don't know.
WR: The kids were still in high school.
AM: Late, late ‘60s or early ‘70s? Okay.
WR: It was just a small field that was next to where Mark lives now.
AM: And where did you plant... what fields did you plant? And how did you decide where to plant your
asparagus?
9
�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
JR: Well, you decide... we wanted to plant cherries. That was our number one goal. We’re cherry
farmers and then apples where it was suitable. And that was our main [crop]. We never was into
peaches much, a little bit, but not much.
AM: I seem to remember a story about... was it Amber Gems that everybody wanted and then they
didn't want them all of a sudden? Was that the one?
JR: That was the first [?] that came out. But they had a red pit cavity and then when they processed it, it
turned brown.
AM: Okay, that was the demise of them then. I know a lot of guys planted them and then turned right
around pretty much and took them out. But I guess that's one of the risks of…
JR: Well, you never know. Almost every fruit variety has a bad point, yeah.
AM: Nowadays, with all these new apple varieties that are so expensive that you have to buy - I don't
know how it works - shares in a...
[End of Audio Recording]
10
�
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/94e6fad574a994073ed8552568469adf.mp3
30ca668f513b5a041e805c61b5f2618a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Oceana County Migrant Labor History Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Shell-Weiss, Melanie
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Growing Community: A Century of Migration in Oceana County." This project was a collaboration between El Centro Hispano de Oceana, the Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society, and Grand Valley State University funded by a Common Heritage grant from the United States National Endowment for the Humanities. The materials in this collection document the history of communities in Hart, Shelby, and Walkerville and explore themes of migration, labor, religion, family, belonging, national and cultural identities, regional, national, and international connections, and citizenship.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Oceana County (Mich.)
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
El Centro Hispano de Oceana; Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society
Relation
A related resource
Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage project)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
DC-06
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
image/jpeg
audio/mp3
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Image
Sound recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
spa
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oceana County (Mich.)
Hart (Mich.)
Shelby (Mich.)
Farms
Farmers
Migrant agricultural laborers
Hispanic Americans
Account books
Diaries
Oral history
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
DC-06_Riley_John_and_Wilma
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Riley, John
Riley, Wilma
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-18
Title
A name given to the resource
Riley, John and Wilma (audio interview and transcript)
Description
An account of the resource
Oral history interview with John and Wilma Riley. Interviewed by Alan Moul on June 18, 2016 in Hart, Michigan. English language. John Riley was born in Hart, Michigan in 1928, as the grandson of two Canadian immigrants. He grew up on their family farm and was a lifetime fruit grower in Oceana County. He graduated from Hart High School in 1946 and went straight into the U.S. Army Service after school, before marrying his wife of 67 years, Wilma Riley.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Moul, Alan (interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oceana County (Mich.)
Hart (Mich.)
Farms
Farmers
Fruit growers
Audio recordings
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio/mp3
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/920bb8cbede8bc3a9b09c0199d25c8f4.pdf
d9dffa756dc753846e7763b83aab870b
PDF Text
Text
Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
Esther Moul Interview
Interviewed by Alan Moul
May 26, 2016 and May 29, 2016
Transcript
AM: This is Alan Moul, I'm here with Esther Gilliland Moul, who happens to be my mother. The date is
May twenty-sixth, two thousand sixteen, which happens to be my anniversary. This oral history is being
collected as part of the Growing Community Project for Oceana County. And I'm going to have my mom
talk about her earliest memories and the first Gilliland's in Oceana County. Mom?
EM: Thank you! My plan is to tell the early and the transitional history of our Gilliland family farm, which
ended by being a centennial farm in Hart, Michigan. Since history is my hobby and because I have
inherited and gathered far more information than can be told on tape, I want everyone listening to this
to know that they can certainly find much more detail, both genealogy and history, because I am
currently writing our family history with a lot of detail. And that will be at the Chadwick-Munger House,
headquarters of the Oceana County Historical Society.
AM: Could you spell your name for us so we make sure we get it right?
EM: Esther, E-s-t-h-e-r. A lot of people leave out that “h.” May, M-a-y. Gilliland is G-i-l-l-i-l-a-n-d. And
then my married name is Moul, M-o-u-l.
AM: Okay, thank you. Alright.
AM: Okay.
EM: Harvey (H-a-r-v-e-y) Hunter (H-u-n-t-e-r) Gilliland, my great-grandfather - great-great-grandfather was the first Gilliland in Oceana County. He moved here from western Pennsylvania in 1873 with his
wife, Martha, two daughters, Clara and Elizabeth, and a son, my grandfather, Clayton, who was six years
old at that time. He also brought with him his mother, Mary. He had formerly been working on the Erie
Canal as a driver on the towpath. But the Erie Canal was going out of favor because the railroads were
coming in and I assume that that could be what prompted him to leave that occupation. I also think that
he probably had a connection to the Garwoods [?] who were already here in Oceana County, that may
be who prompted him to move here. There was a Mr. Garwood, who was a blacksmith, and the
Gillilands and the Garwoods [?] were closely related in western Pennsylvania where he came from. My
great-great-grandfather rented farm property out south of Hart, near what we call now Star Hill. And my
grandfather, Clayton, and his sister started attending the little rural Van Wickle School. They moved into
town after the kids graduated from the eighth grade. And great-great-grandpa Harvey was a
wheelwright and he also did building moving. He was also involved in community affairs. He was an avid
hunter. Everybody talked about how he had to go hunting and fishing every year. He lived on two lots in
Hart. And it is amusing to me that now I'm living in an apartment overlooking Hart Lake and he's buried
right at the top of the hill overlooking Hart Lake, overlooking his... what he called his fishing hole. And
that was at his request; he wanted to be buried over his fishing hole.
AL: Alright.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
EM: Harvey's daughters eventually married local men, but they moved out of Michigan, but my grandpa,
Clayton, stayed and decided to be a farmer. He bought the first twenty acres of our farm in 1889 and
built a small house and then married a lovely girl, Mary Trommater, from Elbridge in 1891. Sadly, Mary
died in pregnancy. I'm sure he was grief stricken and there are several silent years that we know nothing
about. I have many of Mary’s keepsakes that were in an old trunk in our attic. But eventually he got a
new lease on life and in 1894 he married Rose Moore, a local girl who was a housekeeper for a local
businessman. And she was the daughter of John Moore, who was in the sawmill business out east of
Hart. Then in 1909, both of Clayton's parents died, and so he inherited his father's building tools, moving
tools, and for a while he would move buildings or rent out the tools. He also began to plant fruit trees on
his twenty acres. And it's interesting, instead of planting a whole orchard like we do now of one variety,
he would plant one or two trees of many varieties, trying out to see what they liked, I guess. And one of
those trees is still standing in the front yard, the old russet tree. He also planted several sweet cherry
trees and some pear trees.
EM: I was born in 1931 in a snowstorm. They tell me that the doctor had a hard time getting there; he
had to wallow through the drifts, but my dad held the lantern. They didn't have electricity and he was
quite at ease because he'd held the lantern for delivering calves in the barn many times, so it didn't
seem to faze him. Our house was a wood frame house. We call it - for places of reference - we call it the
North House, which is gone now. There was no indoor bathroom. There was a water tank upstairs. The
pump at the well outside, there was a gasoline engine that pumped and it would pump the water up to
that water tank upstairs and then it would go by gravity drainage down to the kitchen sink. So, there was
very little water pressure. I remember we had kerosene lamps and I can remember when the phone
came; we finally got our first telephone and I remember when electricity - the REA [Rural Electrification
Act] - finally came. And I was expected as a good farm girl to pick fruit in the summertime, which I did
not like. I ran barefoot through the orchards and I loved to collect rocks and play with pretty flowers and
things. I wasn't much interested in working, but if I wanted to earn a bike, I had to. I got very tan. I
enjoyed the outdoors a great deal. I loved to climb trees. My mother always had a big garden and did
lots of canning. The folks went to market in Muskegon, usually three times a week during the productive
summer months, and that was a lot of work, getting things packed up one day and then spending the
next day on the market and hoping to sell everything, so you didn't have to come home wondering what
to do with the leftovers.
AM: Did you go down and come back the same day?
EM: Oh yeah, we went early in the morning while it was still dark and usually could leave by 2:00 or 3:00
in the afternoon. We sold not only to the local people in Muskegon, but to the stores. The stores would
come and they'd look over all the farmer's wares and see which farmer they could get the best price and
the best product. And I still remember some of the names of the stores in Muskegon. Balkan's [?] was
one that regularly bought from us and we actually became good friends.
AM: Now, at this point, you had a vehicle, right? You had a car?
EM: Yes. They moved up first to a model A and then a little pickup truck.
AM: Okay.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
EM: Yeah. Like I say, a lot more detail in what I'm actually writing that will be available for people to
read at the Historical Society because there's so much detail. When we lived in the North House, as I've
mentioned, my mother’s sister, Alice, who was a polio victim and had to walk with crutches and braces,
came to board with us part-time because she was a bookkeeper at Hawley’s Nursery just down the hill
on the corner where the...
AM: The King funeral home.
EM: ...the funeral home is now, yeah. But Hawley’s Nursery was a big nursery in the area; supplied the
farmers with most of the fruit trees and ours. And they had a daughter, Ruthie, and Ruthie and I played
together a lot.
EM: I'm thinking more about the basement of the north house, how my folks, probably great grandpa,
helped them, insulated the north end of it in the basement, and that became a storage room, it was
well-insulated, and they would store apples in there. And then that was used for a packing shed. Back
then, fruit was shipped out of the depot in Hart to heaven knows where, I don't remember. Also, it went
by boat from the early days from Pentwater and later days from Ludington, but there was a lot of
shipping of fruit for quite some time.
Another thing that I just thought about was the indoor market in Muskegon. Most of my memories are
of the outdoor market in the summertime, but there was a winter indoor market. So, I think we
probably took some of our apples there in the winter and that was not at the same location, and I just
can't remember where it was. But I know there was an indoor market and I remember vividly that I
didn't like to go because we had to get up early in the morning and stay most of the day to sell the fruit.
And so, my mother taught me all kinds of little games and poems and read books to me and anything
she could do to entertain me. So, some of those things I used on my grandkids and later life because my
mother taught me so many of those little things that stayed with me.
AM: So, you would sit there with your produce and sell it and then pack up what was left and come back
home?
EM: Yep.
AM: Okay.
EM: I'm guessing that on the way back we probably stopped at my dad's sister's places; they lived in
Whitehall and Rothbury and probably gave some leftover fruit. That would be like my parents and my
grandpa to want to do that, and I know that periodically we did give them fruit. So, I would guess that
the leftovers probably went in that direction.
AM: I remember Grandpa, I always couldn't figure out why Grandpa had the worst stuff in the house to
eat. And I would ask him, “Grandpa, why do we have all these bruised and wormholes [apples]? And he
said, “Well, the good stuff, I sell at market.” So, we ate the bad stuff.
EM: That's right. Okay, my grandma, Rose Gilliland, died in nineteen thirty-nine. So, I'd like to say some
of my memories about her because sometimes when my folks went to market, they'd let me go and stay
with grandma. And grandma had a Victrola and that was a real new thing. There were no record players
back then; it was a Victrola where you had to wind it up and play these old records. And so, she would
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
play her records for me and they were mostly really just records. Her favorite one? I'll think of it in a
minute.
She also... I have vivid memories of her sitting on the basement steps, washing and polishing eggs and
putting them in the carton to sell. And like I said, she didn't go to sell her eggs. She went to trade and
she'd come home with something in exchange for the eggs.
“I Need Thee Every Hour” - that was Grandma's favorite Victrola song. She played that over and over
again for me.
AM: I've got a question: being that they bartered, was there ever any... do you ever remember any
discussion or disagreement over what they were going to barter and bring home? Or did Grandpa
always have the final say?
EM: I don't remember anything like that. The one vivid memory I do have is of Grandpa starting out of
the yard with a model egg to go to town and grandma discovering that he'd forgotten something. And
she screamed and screeched and tried to get him to stop and she could not make him hear her. She did
not have a delicate voice. [Laughter]
I loved my grandma very much, but it was hard for me to see her suffer with cancer. And oftentimes,
then at that time, they would send me over to the other grandma's house in Mears - Grandma Auger’s
house in Mears - to stay because it would be too hard for me to watch my grandma in bed going
downhill until she died. On the day she died, I got sent across the road to the Walkers, our neighbors,
the Walkers, to have supper with them and they were good friends. They had five kids and they were my
playmates. And Ethel Walker had made scalloped potatoes and I loved scallop potatoes, but I got one
bite in my mouth and she had used pepper and my mother never used black pepper. And I choked and
coughed and I remember how I wondered what in the world was wrong with those potatoes. But those
are my memories of my Grandma Gilliland for her short life.
AM: And what was her first name again?
EM: Rose.
AM: Rose, okay.
EM: Rose, yeah.
AM: One more thing about the Garver School. For a more comprehensive story of the school, I've
written a little booklet, “Once Upon a School.” So, it’s at the Munger House headquarters; it can be read
there.
Now about our neighbors across the road, the Walkers across the road from my grandparents. Mrs.
Walker was a Hasty and Sherman Hasty was her father. And he's the one that built our fruit picking
ladders. We want to be sure and mention his name here. He was well-known. He moved into town in
later life. But I wouldn't be surprised that he had something to do with the building of my grandfather's
house because he was a builder.
Also, Vern Walker, who lived in the house next[door] with his wife, Ethel Hasty Walker; Vern Walker was
a farmer, too, there at the place. And he and my dad, one year at least, rented a good-sized truck and
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
packed up fruit and went to the Benton Harbor market. Benton Harbor was a big fruit market, and
together they went to the Benton Harbor market. I don't remember that they did it more than one year,
but they might have. But the Walkers were our good friends.
I do remember an incident while we were still living over at the north house when we had a terrific
thunderstorm. And my parents were very worried and we had big beech trees in the front yard. And I
remember lightning struck a beech tree that night and you could smell - I called it sulfur - I don't know
what it was, but I remember the awful smell and how worried that my parents were. Well, when
children know that their parents are worried, they are doubly worried. And I remember I was afraid of
lightning for years and years afterwards. And I think I was married before I finally could enjoy a good
thunderstorm.
EM: I may have already said, I don't know, in nineteen thirty-nine, my grandma died and it was a logical
thing for us to move around the corner to live with Grandpa, to take care of the farm with him. My dad
had already been spending all his days over there anyway working and so it was just logical. So, funny
thing is I have no memory of us packing up and moving because I had been spending so much time there
with my mother who was taking care of Grandma, that it just seemed logical for us to just be moving
right on in.
I remember the time of her funeral, how we went down the hill on 72nd Avenue to the cemetery, and
how there was an odor of chicken feathers - burnt chicken feathers - in the air because there was
Archer's Hatchery on that road and it had burned and oh, what a horrible smell - burnt chicken feathers.
And I identify that time of her funeral with that fire.
I said we moved around the corner to the house; I need to say that the house was double in size from
when Grandpa had first built it because about nineteen twelve or so, as the kids were leaving home, as
is often the case, he added onto the house and made it what it is still standing today. A much larger
house. In nineteen eleven, the barn was built and my mother, who was living in the neighborhood just at
that year, said she remembered coming over to play with Dorothy Gilliland and there was a pile of
lumber waiting for the barn to be built. And here again, I never thought to ask who built that barn? I
have no idea. It could have been a barn raising. I just don't know. Be sure to ask the questions that you
can get answers to while your family is still living because you’ll have many regrets about the things that
you don't know and wish you'd asked!
AM: Now, did you mention anything about the kids were all leaving after getting out of school and now
you had no one to pick the small fruits that they were growing?
EM: Right, up until that time they had picked their own fruit, done their own harvesting along with
relatives, the girls, my grandpa Clayton's sisters, Dorothy and LaVange [?] and Phyllis would come maybe
for a day and pick. And maybe they had friends that would want to pick and so you could get local help.
But as they increased the size of the farm and by the time my dad and mother and I moved around the
corner to live with grandpa, they were starting to look at more acreage and eventually did add quite a
bit to the farm. And so, labor became an interesting problem.
AM: Now, we looked at the farm drawings and saw that they had strawberries, raspberries...currants...
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
EM: You can bet those came out when the kids left home. [Laughter] They didn't have their help
anymore, so nobody wanted to do that kind of labor. And so, then he started planning fruit trees in
earnest.
There's a story I think my grandpa told me himself that Dr. Munger, who is known in Hart, used to be
known as the Cherry King. He had more acreage than anybody at one time of tart cherries. That he and
my grandpa, who were friends and I imagine my grandpa went to him for doctoring, as they would call
it. He said, “how are your cherries doing, Clayton?” And my grandpa said, “doing pretty well, doing
alright.”
And Dr. Munger says, “I think I'll plant some cherries.” [Laughter] Makes a good story. Well anyway, he
ended up being the primary cherry grower in Oceana County at one time.
EM: I'm coming up to when I was about nine years old, and so these memories are going to be from that
vantage point, nine, ten, eleven years old. So, I remember how, of course, as we…
AM: ...it would’ve been around 1940.
Yeah, as we got more acreage, more fruit coming into bearing, we had to have more labor. And so, like I
said, we took cousins, neighbors and anybody that wanted to help. And one cousin, Doris in particular,
loved to pick fruit. She was tall and I can still see her standing on top of a nine-foot ladder with only the
tree branches for support, picking away, singing away. She loved it and she boarded with us in the
summer to do that. And she was quite artistic and she loved to draw pictures of what she was doing. She
came several years, as I remember, earned her school money that way, clothing and books and so forth.
So right about that time, we were getting rid of our horses and cows. We had one team left, Dick and
Nell, and out of deference to Grandpa Clayton, they still kept them and he'd do a little bit of cultivating
with the two horses. And when it came haying time, because we still had several cows, and the horses
needed hay. And when it came haying time, we had rented pastureland down the hill. That would be
where my son Cal lives now in that field to the south.
We would go in and get that hay, cut that hay, and I can remember the horses bringing in the hay up the
hill. One of my favorite pictures of myself is standing on top of that load of hay. I used to love to just sit
and watch the process of unloading the hay, how the horses would pull the ropes to raise the hay fork
full of hay and swing it over into the hay mound and let it drop. And it took quite a while to unload the
load of hay and then go back and get another load.
AM: How they could back that wagon up, the horses would back it up.
EM: Yeah, I loved to watch my grandpa hitch up the horses, too. I'm so glad that I have those memories
because they're gone now. Kids don't see those kinds of things on farms unless they go to a museum
farm. So, I'm glad I have those memories of haying time on the farm.
I had older cousins who would come and stay summers with my parents, but they were soon drafted
into the army. So there went some of our good help. There were local people, as I’ve mentioned, that
would come and work. Teachers often liked to work on the farm in the summer because it gave them
summer employment. Ivan Robinson was our old standby. He painted our house one summer and did
other odd jobs around the farm.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
AM: Didn't he end up being the principal of a school or something?
EM: I think he might have; he was a teacher, yep. There were people we called drifters and I suppose
maybe they were alcoholics. They just had that kind of temperament where they were just passing
through and just wanted to earn a little bit of money and they would work and we hired some of them.
We didn't have to house them at all. And by the way, back then there were no housing laws, no
restrictions. If somebody wanted to come and pitch a tent in your yard and pick fruit, that was all right.
We had young girls just with new driver's licenses that drove across the state to camp under our walnut
trees in tents, and they became lifetime friends. They’d have parties in the barn at night and we just
became really good friends.
One man in particular, I think he just stopped in to see if we needed help and he became a family friend
for many years. His name was Harlan, H-a-r-l-a-n, Parrish. He and his wife Mae came and we called him
“Shorty.” He was a short man and he was the best hired man my dad ever had. He would do anything.
He dragged the tractor. Oh, yes, we'll have to talk about the new tractor. He would, you know, whatever
the day called for, he was up for it. And we housed “Shorty” in the barn and they didn't mind. They
curtained off an area and we had an old bed with a mattress and a place to wash up. And of course, all
the accommodations, bathroom accommodations were just outdoor privies at that point. And so
nobody minded. It wasn't until the government agencies got involved and put restrictions on the
farmers that things had to change.
But people would start to come up from the south and people would come from Oklahoma and
Arkansas. And you never knew where your help was going to come from. That was risky business to
hope that there would be enough help to get your crop off. But it always worked out and there were
good years and bad years. Some years there would be a heavy frost and you'd say, well, maybe next
year will be a good year. So, talk about being in the gambling business. It sure felt like it, but things
seemed to always work out.
EM: I don't remember the year - but it's written down, so you can find it if you want to know - that we
got our first tractor. It was a Caywood and that's an unfamiliar name now, but we were so proud of that
tractor. And I remember how my dad practiced with that tractor and how he had to use it to pull a
loaded truck up the hill and he was so proud that he was able to do that.
Also, the name Eva Doedy [?] comes to mind, Eva Doedy [?] was a nurse at the Hart hospital and she was
a corker, she loved to work and she loved the outdoors and she took her vacation and came and picked
cherries every year. She’d take a bucket of water and put it at the bottom of her cherry tree and she'd
wash her hands after she got through with every tree and she just treated it like a true vacation. And
then I was reminded that in later years, she came back and helped my mother and me can cherries in
the summertime. She truly loved farm life, and she was willing to spend her vacation time outdoors.
AM: It sounds like in those years there was a lot more community involvement in the farms that just
kind of was natural, which we are losing now, that doesn’t happen.
EM: There was a saying by the businessmen in town, “if the farmer has a bad year, so do we.” The
farmer couldn't buy the new couch or his wife couldn't get her new coat or whatever. Or the farmer
couldn't buy a new truck or whatever. The economy was… everyone affected… everyone's success
affected somebody in the community.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
AM: What are your memories of tourism, as far as it related to the farming community in the [nineteen]
forties?
EM: People came through to the sand dunes, I remember the sand dunes, that was a big drawing card.
People came just to see them and to climb on them. And there were little cabins. And now that people
all had cars and were traveling, resorting was a big thing. I think that's some of what got my Grandpa
and Grandma Auger to start their canning business, was for the resorters that came and just, oh, they
just “oohed and aahed” for all the fruit over here and wanted to take some back with them.
I'm moving into my teenage years now, and I'm remembering that the government was making jeeps,
used army jeeps available to farmers to use in place of tractors if they needed a good utility vehicle, they
could do some light farming with Jeeps.
AM: This was before World War Two? Must have been World War One surplus?
EM: No, this was World War Two… in the middle of the... or at the end of the war, I’m not sure. But I
remember writing to school with the Walker kids across the road because they had bought one of the
Army surplus jeeps and we could go through the snow in the wintertime when other kids couldn't get
there.
I remember the Normandy invasion talking about World War Two now, we were very deeply involved in
listening to the radio, which we had a radio now and that was a big deal because we had cousins Harold
and Norman Hoxton in the war and we kept track of the movement of the troops. And I remember
sitting on my dad's lap with the map out in front of us watching,
listening to the H.V. Kaltenborn [?] and other announcers talking about the Normandy invasion and
were just really caught up in what was going on. At the school, the men were, of course, all going into
the service and our high school principal was a woman that was quite new. Mrs. Frost was our high
school principal, and one day she got up to the study hall and announced that we would all be collecting
milkweed pods for the Kapok preservers for the army. And she brought the house down when she said,
“the bags are in the office.” Well, back in those days us kids would call anybody in authority that we
didn't care too much for an “old bag.” You know, so she said, “the bags are in the office,” but we yeah,
we went out and harvested milkweed pods. We also went out… they would let school out for kids to go
out and help with emergency crop harvest.
I remember how I got my Social Security number and my dad and mother got theirs at the same time.
The cherry harvest was on and the canning factories were getting plugged up with product and they
couldn't handle it fast enough. So, they would tell the farmers, “don't bring us anymore for a while,
come in and help us.” So, the farmers and their families would have to go in and help. But I remember I
was on the sorting belt. My dad was emptying lugs into the water and I don't remember what my
mother was doing, probably sorting. And that's how we all at the same time, my mother and dad and I
got our Social Security numbers to help out.
But the biggest excitement at that time, nineteen forty-four and five, were the German prisoners of war
that were made available. They had captured them and brought them over here. And rather than just
warehousing them, they put them to work. And according to the Geneva Convention, they were to be
treated humanely. And we wanted to show that in America, we treat our war prisoners humanely. And
so, we gave them work to do and whereas our troops were not always being treated humanely. Anyway,
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
we could sign up, a farmer could sign up for needing so many prisoners and my dad would take the
pickup truck and go to the fairgrounds where they were housed in tents and pick up his quota for the
day and a guard with a gun would come along and he was supposed to stand watching the prisoners at
all times, but he would get very bored. And so, he would put his… lean his gun up against the tree and
go to work, too. But it was interesting, as a teenager looking out at those men, I didn't feel like they
were the enemy. They were there to help us. They were friendly, it was just different. They would kind
of wave at me and smile. But we weren't supposed to communicate back and forth. And I couldn't talk
German anyway.
AM: Now, were there any Japanese prisoner of wars or do they stay on the West Coast?
EM: No.
AM: I'm not aware whether they helped or not. I think they were pretty much warehoused, it was a
different situation.
EM: No, I think so. They were in the internment camps. Yeah, no these were just... now there were at
the same time some Jamaicans and some other people who came through that we'd never had before.
It was kind of a trial period, they just took anybody they could get because the good men were gone.
AM: And did they ever do any scrap metal drives just to scrap metal, scrap rubber, scrap paper.
Everything went to the war effort. Even now, when I go down the expressway and I see where
somebody's tire has blown apart and lying alongside the road, I have this urge to get out and pick it up
because that's what we did. You just saved everything. Everything was rationed: sugar was rationed,
tires were rationed, gasoline was rationed. But the farmer didn't have it so bad because the whole
world, the soldiers, the troops depended on what the farmer could raise. And so, the farmer had to have
what he needed to produce. So, we had what we needed.
Interview Day Two – May Twenty-Ninth
AM: This is Alan Moul, and I'm here with Esther Gilliland Moul. And this is a continuation of our tape
from May twenty-sixth and today's May twenty-ninth. So, we're going to continue where we left off.
EM: Well, I think we left off about when I was graduating from high school in nineteen forty-eight, I was
a country girl headed for the big city. I wanted to be a nurse and my dad had said, “well, why don't you
just go down to Muskegon, to Hackley Hospital?” And my mother wisely said, “she needs to get away.”
And I've always been grateful that she had the foresight to send me to the big city. I left with several
local girls for Oak Park, Illinois, West Suburban Hospital School of Nursing affiliated with Wheaton
College, and was there for the next three and a half years.
EM: I really, really loved Chicago. I loved to get on the elevator and go down and explore. Looking
around the architecture, the buildings, the opportunities, things I'd never seen before. I really enjoyed it
and I enjoyed the nursing experience, too. My boyfriend back home, Leonard Moul, M-o-u-l, had
another year of high school to finish. And we kept in touch some, but gradually through the years when I
was there, we kind of lost touch until the end of my training.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
My parents were doing quite well on the farm and they started going to Florida in the winters and taking
my grandparents, my grandpa Gilliland and my mother's parents with them. And that was nice, they had
some freedom to travel.
And with the new gales [?] in Hart, they took some pretty extensive trips to California and Texas and
quite a bit in the southwest. And in nineteen forty-nine, I came home on vacation and found that my
father had bought his first new car, brand new car, a forty-nine Kaiser. He was so proud of that - it was
the first totally new car he'd ever had. So, I guess they were doing quite well with their farming, over the
years they were gradually adding more acreage.
Leonard would come up from Comstock Park and visit his sister in Shelby, Dr. Hasty's wife Beverly, and
do yard work for her, and then he also did some carpentry work. That's where he learned to do
carpentry work, was with Burmeister Builders out of Shelby. He graduated in nineteen forty-nine. In
nineteen fifty-one, I graduated from nurses training and my folks gave me a bus trip to Florida and then I
rode home with them. I went back to Oak Park and worked for a few months just to say that I had
worked as a graduate nurse in my home hospital for a little while.
But by then I was engaged to Leonard and we were beginning to plan a wedding. We were married in
September nineteen fifty-two. Started out with a little house trailer in the driveway of my new sister and
brother in law, Mark and June Dorn. Leonard was working at Sackner Products in Grand Rapids and I
started working at Butterworth Hospital. Times were good.
AM: Now, he was a machinist, is that correct?
EM: He became a machinist. When he first started there, he drove a Hi-Lo and loaded trucks and they
loved him because they said he could load a truck semi faster and better than anybody. But then he
gradually moved up and became a machinist. He's also in the Michigan National Guard's.
Deer hunting was big, big… hunting of all kinds was big with him. And he and his brother in laws had
tented in the Upper Peninsula, and were making plans to buy some property up there and build a cabin.
So, one of the first things I got to do was camp out and go deer hunting. I did it to please him, not
because I had any desire to kill any animals. I took my gun with me. I learned how to shoot it, but I never
killed a deer. But it was a nice vacation experience. This was before the Mackinac Bridge was built. So,
we sat in long, long lines and my sister in laws would pack wonderful sandwiches and pies and things.
And so, we ate while we sat and waited to go across the bridge.
As I said, we were living in a little house trailer, but we wanted to get some land and Len, with his
carpenter skills, wanted to build a house. And his boss at Sackner Products very conveniently gave him
his house plans and so we used his house plans to build our first house. We bought two acres on Division
Avenue just about a couple of miles from Walton and Donna Moul’s place; they lived on Six Mile Road
on Division Avenue. Leonard started right away; as soon as we bought the property, we moved the
trailer up there and started right in with the plans to build our house. And I was still working, so we were
doing alright. I think we were each making about four thousand something a year.
We still took our vacations to deer hunt. Grandpa and Grandma Moul were still living. They came over
and watched the progress of the house. And I have a picture of Grandpa Moul driving a nail in the siding
on the house. And he was so proud to be able to do some little thing that showed he was interested. But
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
sadly, he died in nineteen fifty-five and Leonard had to teach Grandma Moul how to drive. She had
never driven a car, so he did - he taught her how to drive.
EM: Back in Hart on the farm, my dad and mother seemed to be doing well, enjoying their winters and
traveling and we were so involved in building our house, we weren't paying much attention to what was
going on, on the farm back in Hart. So, we weren't thinking about their future very much. But, they
certainly every year were getting one year older and wondering who is going to take over. I think my dad
had always wished for a son, but that never happened.
So, I remember at one time he mentioned that the house and farm across the road was for sale. Well,
we sure weren't interested because we didn't want to live that close proximity to my parents. Didn't
think that would be a good idea and we weren’t thinking about moving anyway. But we got our house
built on Division Avenue and discovered in the process, we had to put down a very, very deep well. And
we didn't like the water at all because we had... it was so hard that we had to buy a commercial water
softener and that water tasted terrible coming out of that commercial water. We just didn't like it at all.
Then some other houses started going up around us and that troubled us a little bit because we had
envisioned living out in the country without too many neighbors. And so, we started looking around a
little bit.
And I'm getting ahead of myself because in nineteen fifty-six, I discovered I was pregnant, and so I
thought, well, I should be getting more domesticated and I needed to make some curtains for the baby's
bedroom. And so, we were looking at a sewing machine in Grand Rapids and when we got home, the sky
began to get really dark and strange and I had never seen that kind of weather. And the upshot was we
saw our first tornado and Leonard had to go out with the National Guards and help with that. My
neighbor down the hill and I got to stand in our living room window and watch the tornado go through,
and that was pretty exciting.
AM: When would that have been, like, May of nineteen fifty-six?
EM: Yeah, yeah.
AM: Around Easter you said, wasn't it?
EM: I think so.
AM: So earlier.
EM: Yeah, the sky turned all yellow, just like a dandelion, it was just yellow. You never saw anything like
it. Our friends, Ruth and Ron Bullis [?] lost their trailer in the storm and ended up building a house,
becoming our neighbors. Anyway, in October, Alan Lee was born and I stopped working at the hospital.
Soon after, I found out I was pregnant again and Bradley Ray joined our crowd.
By then, we were really disenchanted with where we were living and started looking around a little bit
at property. And we still took our vacations up north, went fishing up... by then, the guys had built a
cabin on some property in the Upper Peninsula outside of Munising and we took vacations up there.
And Leonard still went deer hunting, and I did too, because Grandpa and Grandma Gilliland were only
too happy to have a couple of boys come and stay with them. And that was nice that they were
accommodating.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
Then in nineteen sixty-one, February, Calvin John was born and, in the meantime, Leonard was helping
Marv [?] down the road build a house, so he was getting plenty of carpenter experience. We did some
looking around and found some property on Rogue River and bought a couple acres there and decided
that we would move. But we had to sell our house and we didn't have too much trouble. Some people in
Grand Rapids wanted our house and we just traded houses. They bought our house, so we bought
theirs, and ours was much more expensive than theirs, so we did alright. Moved into Grand Rapids just
in time for Al to start kindergarten. Do you remember that?
AM: Not really.
EM: No, you don’t remember Riverside Elementary School?
AM: I remember James Street...
EM: Yeah, that's where we lived on James.
AM: ...walking home.
EM: Past a dog, remember you had to walk past that scary dog?
AM: An old dog in the yard.
EM: Then, to complicate things, my dad called again and said, there's another farm for sale down the hill
and a nice big house and property, fruit trees and you've got some boys coming along. You might be
interested now. And we decided maybe we were, if we're going to have boys to raise. Why not on the
farm? So, we had already committed to building a house on the river, which we did. We lived in Grand
Rapids in town for a year and then moved out to our house on the river and lived there just a short time.
Joel came along in the fall of... no, he was born in June.
AM: June, [nineteen] sixty-three,
EM: Sixty-three and then the fall of [nineteen] sixty-three, I got a phone call from my mother-in-law that
President Kennedy had been shot. And Al remembers that quite well because he was in school.
AM: Yep, one of the few things I remember about down there.
EM: It was pretty traumatic. Brad started kindergarten there and Al was in first grade. Dr. Hasty and his
wife, Beverly, in Shelby bought our James Street house when we needed to sell it and rented it and that
helped us out considerably. So that got us out of downtown and out on the river. The kids did enjoy
living on the river. We could swim in the river and Leonard could play baseball in Rockford and that was
fun. It was between Rockford and Sparta; the kids were in the Sparta school system.
So, in June, nineteen sixty-three, Leonard started coming up to the farm and working on weekends with
my dad to see what there was that he needed to learn and help him out. In Easter time of nineteen
sixty-four, we made another move up to the farm and thankfully another person came along that
wanted to buy our house on the river. Leonard's boss bought our house down there. So, we... except for
I guess we kept one acre which we later sold to him, and the boys started at Garver School here in Hart.
AM: It must have been kind of a big switch because I know the house on the river was a lot nicer and
brand new compared to the house you moved in on the farm. It was an old farmhouse with plaster
falling off.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
EM: It was very old, very old. But we had no qualms about it because by then we understood what a
builder Leonard was and so we had plans right away. We drew our own plans to build a house and live in
the old house and build a house in front of it and move the old house out to use for farm labor.
AM: You actually built your house behind the one that was there.
EM: I said in front, didn’t I?
AM: Yeah, behind.
EM: We built it behind.
AM: And when you built it, you could walk from one to the other with a plank...
EM: Out the back door of the old house and the front of the new house. And Uncle Norman Johansen,
my uncle, came to visit one time, looked out our picture window and the old house hadn’t been moved
yet. He was a dry comedian. He looked out and he said, “it ain’t got much of a view.” We always had a
laugh about that.
Now we need to talk about farm labor. My dad had been buying small pieces of property and so there
were up to over one hundred acres, I'm sure, by then. And so, he needed more help and he would pick
up local help, but that wasn't going to be good enough. And people were coming from the South, but
that wasn't enough. And there was a new system of help called the “crew leader system,” where a
leader would gather a group of people from Texas or wherever they came from, and he would be
responsible to oversee them, and they were usually young single men. And so, we got started… my dad
got started using that system of labor for the harvest time.
AM: There weren't many rules back then as to what he could or couldn't do, so there was a lot of...
EM: No, there weren’t housing restrictions. People could sleep in the barn, which they did in chicken
coops, in…
AM: Tents.
EM: ...tents, old houses. Yeah, there were virtually no rules.
AM: And the crew leader, some of them anyway, charged their workers for taking them to town, for
buying food, things of that nature. So, it was pretty loose.
EM: When we remember one name in particular, Eliseo Salazar. Good man, I think he treated his people
fairly. I don't know if it was the same ones that came back year after year or not, but he was a very nice
man.
AM: Now, he was from the valley, right? In Texas?
EM: I don't remember
AM: Alice, I believe they were from Alice, Texas. And then Donna and Far and those were some of the
names that people were coming from down there.
EM: Leonard right away got connected with the Michigan State Extension office in Hart and started
taking classes, short course classes in agriculture because a lot of things he needed to learn. He could
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
learn from my dad first hand, but this brought him up to speed on the latest farming practices and put
him in touch with the county agricultural agents that could help him decide what to plant and…
AM: Spray.
EM: And spray and things. It was really good for him. And he in school, he never had been a good
student and didn't particularly care about learning. And so, this was something new for him. And he
applied himself very well and did real well.
EM: So, I guess in summary, I'll just say that it looked like we were here to stay and the boys were
acclimating into school and farm and we were even looking at more property and life was looking pretty
good. And I think, Al and Brad, our memories intersect here, and I think they can take it on from their
vantage point of what it was like for them as they were young growing up on the farm.
14
�
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f6c491f5a798b275d0fa2468ba173f87.mp3
28d0d6efee3317b277a4a7526ec6f596
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Oceana County Migrant Labor History Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Shell-Weiss, Melanie
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Growing Community: A Century of Migration in Oceana County." This project was a collaboration between El Centro Hispano de Oceana, the Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society, and Grand Valley State University funded by a Common Heritage grant from the United States National Endowment for the Humanities. The materials in this collection document the history of communities in Hart, Shelby, and Walkerville and explore themes of migration, labor, religion, family, belonging, national and cultural identities, regional, national, and international connections, and citizenship.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Oceana County (Mich.)
Source
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Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
El Centro Hispano de Oceana; Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society
Relation
A related resource
Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage project)
Identifier
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DC-06
Format
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application/pdf
image/jpeg
audio/mp3
Type
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Text
Image
Sound recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
spa
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oceana County (Mich.)
Hart (Mich.)
Shelby (Mich.)
Farms
Farmers
Migrant agricultural laborers
Hispanic Americans
Account books
Diaries
Oral history
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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DC-06_Moul_Esther
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Moul, Esther
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-27/2016-05-29
Title
A name given to the resource
Moul, Esther (audio interview and transcript)
Description
An account of the resource
Oral history interview with Esther M. Moul. Interviewed by her son, Alan Moul, on May 27 and 29, 2016 in Hart, Michigan. English language. Esther May Gilliland Moul was born in 1931 into a farming family located in Hart, Michigan. Her great-great-grandfather was the first Gilliland in Oceana County dating back to 1873 and the Gilliland family farm became a centennial farm in Hart, Michigan. She holds many memories of her life growing up on the farm: how they received their fruit trees from Hawley Nursery, stories of Dr. Munger who was known as the “Cherry King,” and life during World War Two. Esther graduated from high school in 1948 and went on to pursue nursing in Oak Park, Illinois at the West Suburban Hospital School of Nursing which was affiliated with Wheaton College. She married Leonard Moul in 1952 and worked at Butterworth Hospital in Grand Rapids while starting a family there. They later relocated their family to the fruit farm across the street from her parents in Hart, Michigan and were able to raise their sons with the same agricultural traditions that were a part of their family’s heritage.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Moul, Alan (interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oceana County (Mich.)
Hart (Mich.)
Farms
Farmers
Fruit growers
Nursing
Oak Park (Ill.)
Wheaton College (Ill.)
Butterworth Hospital (Grand Rapids, Mich.)
Audio recordings
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio/mp3
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a66e078944717745ebbb1b2e38288e40.pdf
e8cd485d67e09f97f8e7b239d09ba103
PDF Text
Text
Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
Edward and Gretchen Hawley Interview
Interviewed by Nora Salas and Paul Kutsche
June 18, 2016
Transcript
NS: Melanie got this water for you. I don't know if you wanted some coffee or something.
EH: Well, I don't like bottled water.
NS: Uh oh.
EH: So, I do not want the water.
NS: Okay.
EH: And I don't think I need any coffee right now, so I think we'd better go ahead...
NS: Okay.
EH: ...with what we need to do.
NS: Sounds good. Yes, well, we have some questions, but of course, you know, it’s up to you, also, what
direction you want to take things. We do need to say a couple of things right at the beginning just so we
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
get it on the recording. And then if the recording were ever separated from the records, for some reason
in the future, they would be able to know who was here and what they did, et cetera.
EH: Alright.
NS: Okay so, and we'll have to put your name in, too… when we say the interview name.
EH: Anyway, should I say… this is what I thought I would say at the beginning here…
NS: Okay.
EH: ...if it would work in. Do you want me to say it here now or?
NS: Well, right, maybe right after I say our names and the dates and such. So, this is Nora Salas and...
PK: Paul Kutsche
NS: ...and we are here today with...
EH: Ed Hawley
NS: ...Ed Hawley at the Hart…
PK: City Hall [laughter].
NS: ...City Hall?
EH: Well, it’s a Commons. Don’t they call this the Hart Commons, back here behind the City Hall?
NS: Yes.
EH: I think.
NS: Yes, in Hart, Michigan and today, which is June 18th, 2016, this oral history is being collected as part
of the Growing Community Project, which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment
for the Humanities Common Heritage Program. Of course, thank you for agreeing to come and be
interviewed and talk with us today. And we are interested in talking more about your family history and
your experiences in Oceana County. Before we go into this, can you please state, again, your full name
and spell it?
EH: Yes, my name - well, if you want the whole thing - is Edward Adair Hawley. E-d-w-a-r-d A-d-a-i-r H-aw-l-e-y.
NS: Sounds great.
EH: OK.
NS: Why don’t you go ahead?
EH: When the topic for today first appeared in the Oceana Herald Journal, I knew that the Hawley
Nursery and Fruit Farm is an important part of that history. I also knew that there are only four of us left
with personal experience of that history. The other three are my sister Martha Ann Piegols, my nephew
John Hawley, and my niece Joann, who with her husband David, own and operate the fruit farm. My
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
sister always defers to me in things like this and she has a conflict today anyway. Well, Saturday is the
busiest day of the week for the other two and their businesses. So here I am ready to share what I can.
NS: Awesome, thank you. So, we have questions... we don't have to go by these questions, especially if
you get started on a particular topic…
EH: Oh, I have a bunch...
NS: ...or you want to have your own things. Why don't we start with what you brought, I think would be
better.
EH: Okay, well, I went in yesterday - no, Wednesday - to the Chadwick Munger House, office of the
OCGHS. And they were pointing out to me that on their curb lawn, there is a cherry tree that was given
by my father, Monroe Hawley, to Dr. Munger and he still... he finished his practice but was still living in
the Munger House. And that tree still blooms every year and has cherries every year, so that is a
connection. And then another connection that might be missed. This book that I have brought with me
is a history of the Robinson and Hawley families by Duane Robinson, who was a cousin of mine and the
family connection goes back to the Hart High School class of 1907 because Morris Robinson and he was
a Morris who spelled Morris: M-o-r-r-i-s, but my dad is a Maurice and he spelled / it’s spelled: M-a-u-r-ic-e. The connection is that in 1892, my grandfather, who had just graduated from an institution then
known as the Michigan Agricultural College in East Lansing, and his brother, who Harry Edward Hawley
came from Ganges, much further south down near Fennville, up to Oceana County, and leased eightyseven acres because there was a railway track that kind of angled and made a boundary of it that was
owned by the Hubbard family. And they leased this farm from the Hubbard family and began the
Hawley’s Nursery and that was in 1892. My Uncle Ed, we called Uncle Ed... I just sent a big email off to
the Robinson family members who live out in Seattle, Washington - another long story that I need to tell
- and but that Morris Robinson went to Hart High School and my men in our part of the family call him
“Uncle Ed” stayed up here and rented a house on the same road that this eighty-seven acres was on.
And his daughter, Hazel. Oh, this is my wife Gretchen…
[?]: ...who wants to come and add to the story.
NS: Okay, we need a chair.
[?]: I will get one for her.
NS: Gretchen, did you sign the release form at the beginning?
GH: No, I didn't expect that I would be doing anything.
NS: Do you want to say something? Maybe you should sign it just in case you need to sit to interject.
GH: Okay.
NS: Because I think if you interject and you haven't signed it, I think we might have to try to edit you out
or something and it could get really complicated.
[?]: OK, should I take her back out there to do that or bring it in here?
NS: Just to the beginning station where… what’s that young woman's name?
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
[?]: I don't know.
NS: I don't know either. [Laughter]
[?]: [Laughter]. Okay.
NS: Then we would, of course, welcome you to come in.
GH: Oh, thank you. Thank you. I’ll sign...
NS: Yes.
PK: Good morning. I’m Paul Kutsche. Remember we met last year?
GH: We did.
PK: And this is Nora Salas, who is conducting the interview.
NS: Hi, I'm sorry, what's your name?
GH: I'm Gretchen Hawley.
NS: Gretchen. Hi, Gretchen.
PK: Oh yes, Mrs. Hawley.
GH: Yeah.
NS: Yeah, I got that part. [Laughter]
GH: Fifty-eight years this summer.
NS: Oh, my goodness.
GH: Well, of course, we started late, that’s really amazing.
[Laughter]
PK: By the way, the two of you have Michigan State in common. Dr. Salas got her Ph.D. in History, was it
not?
NS: It is true, yes.
PK: From Michigan State.
PK: Your fellow alumni.
EH: Oh, an alum. Mine is also...
NS: Oh, really?
EH: ...but that was much longer ago.
NS: Well, yes.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
EH: Specifically, in nineteen forty-three. I think I have that right. So, but I...and it was a strange situation
because it was wartime and I was studying for the ministry so I had a deferment for that purpose. And I
felt because all my friends were going into the service or were conscientious objectors, that I should
since I had this deferment, that I should get to college as fast as I could. Well, all these friends were in
danger one way or another. And so, Michigan State had a requirement that you could only take twentyone credit hours and, from the time of Pearl Harbor, I began to do that in order to get through as fast as
I could. And also, being the school it was - MSC, as it was when I was there - had a requirement that you
could only take twenty-one credit hours in a semester, or not, a quarter because they were in the
quarter system. And so, I was trying to do that, but also, we had ROTC and that was a credit and a half.
And so, I wound up taking twenty and a half credits each semester and goes right through the summers.
And then I was going on from there to Chicago Theological Seminary on the University of Chicago
campus by Rockefeller Chapel. And I should remember his name - began with a “K” - my History major
professor. Oh, I suddenly relaxed for my last term since they would not let me take twenty-one and a
half credits.
PK: [Laughter]
EH: “No, you can’t do that, you have to go to summer school.” So, they gave me a blank sheet of paper,
they let me stand in line for graduation, but I had to write one more paper. So, I… ten o'clock on a
Saturday morning, I went in with my last paper and left it on my history professor's desk and went out
and hitchhiked to Chicago with everything that I needed on a backpack. And amazingly, the University of
Chicago and Michigan State were on exactly the same schedule, so I arrived on a Saturday evening and
on Monday morning I took my first course at eight o'clock in the morning in seminary. So that was my
transition and how they could be on exactly that same term schedule. And also have an intensive sixweek summer school divided in half was amazing, but that's what happened.
PK: Did you happen to be a contemporary in the seminary with Duncan Littlefair, who became…
EH: No, I know Duncan Littlefair from Grand Rapids, but he was in divinity school and I was in Chicago
Theological Seminary, which were a part of a federated faculty and this gets so complicated.
PK: Oh, I see. That, of course, has nothing to do with the project…
[Laughter].
PK: Since I’m a member of Fountain Street Church, I was curious whether…
EH: Yeah, well, that's right. I certainly knew Duncan Littlefair, but that was the connection. He was
younger than I.
NS: Before we go too much farther, Gretchen, just in case you do have something to add, at the
beginning you missed the part where we ask people to state their name and spell it. Just in case, at
some point in the future the written record were to be separated from the recording, then people
would always know who was here. So, if you could do that, that would be really helpful.
GH: Alright. I'm Gretchen Hawley. G-r-e-t-c-h-e-n H-a-w-l-e-y. And I'm Ed’s wife. We were married on
the Fourth of July, nineteen fifty-eight.
NS: Thank you. Easy day to remember.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
GH: I was a town girl and I married a farm boy.
PK: Which town?
GH: Lowell.
PK: Oh!
NS: So, one of the first questions on here… we’re moving around a little bit, but... Ed, you grew up here
in Hart, right? The relationship with the nursery?
EH: Well, on a farm outside of Hart.
NS: The seventy-eight acres?
EH: Yes. Yeah, eighty-seven.
NS: Sorry, yeah. It says, “tell us about where you grew up, some of your most vivid memories from
childhood.”
EH: Okay. Well, I, believe it or not, can...I have a memory of my sister's birth. There was no hospital in
Hart or Shelby at the time I was born, which was in 1923, and my sister was born two and a half years
later. But our doctor, who was Dr. Nickelson, a contemporary of Doctor Munger's, the house where his
office is still down here on Main Street. And he… when my mother went into labor, he sent a midwife
out to help deliver the baby. And I don't remember when that happened to me. But I was aware enough
as a two-and-a-half-year-old because we had bedrooms upstairs separated by just a passageway. Same
house is still there in Iona now. But anyway, I have this distinct memory of my… my bed was by my
parents' bed, but when she went - my mother went - into labor, they put me in the back room, of
course, but I still remember that the midwife came and when I went back in, I was shown this new baby
sister that I had and I am always amazed how things like that can somehow stick in our heads. But I do
feel I…
PK: Were you the oldest?
EH: What?
PK: Were you the oldest?
EH: I was the oldest.
PK: Uh huh.
EH: And then we have another sister, Lucy, who is five years younger than Martha Ann. So, she was born
in the hospital; by then, an old building that had been a family restaurant down by the… well, kitty
corner from Ace Hardware, down there was the hospital and it had a big front porch. And another
memory I have was my grandfather had appendicitis and went to the hospital and died at the age of
sixty-two. And I can remember going down and, as a child or children, Martha and I weren't allowed to
go into the hospital, but the big plate glass window from when it had been a house was in the same
room that my grandfather was in, and we could stand on the porch and wave to him from outside the
window of the hospital. So those are some ancient memories, but I don't know we need to go into them
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
with the Holly Nursery because I do want to get to the...specifically, the Holly Nursery part of this. And
aren’t we supposed to be doing this out there or at this time or what’s the schedule?
NS: To try to scan that stuff?
EH: No, no, I’m not worried about scanning. We can do that…
GH: No, you do it all here, Ed.
EH: We do this all here?
NS: Where you talk about it?
EH: Oh, yeah.
NS: The nursery?
EH: Oh, okay.
NS: Yeah. We can, if you want to go in that direction we can do that, but there's a couple of questions
too. We don't have to do all the questions, though.
EH: Okay. I definitely want to get into the Holly Nursery part of it.
NS: Yes. Yeah, so we can go ahead and do that if you want to. And then afterwards, they have a couple
of stations set up to scan the documents that you have there. So, if you want to take them out and talk
about them then... if that's what you wanted to do.
EH: I have one question about this, and that is about copyright, because this book, which I would very
much like to get a lot of into the Historical Society record, is... I think has a copyright by… I can’t recall
his name, my cousin.
NS: Robinson?
EH: Well, he's the author of this thing.
GH: Duane.
EH: Duane, yeah, Duane Robinson. And so…
NS: I think we have to ask Melanie.
EH: He’s gone and when I got into this, I remembered. Let me go back to give this part of the history, to
get the Robinson / Hawley connection and why this is that way. Because Morris Robinson went to Hart
High School and my uncle Ed’s daughter, Hazel, also went to Hart High School. I had thought they were
in the same class, but they weren't. That's where they got to know each other. And they got married and
Morris went on to get a law degree at Ann Arbor, to the University of Michigan, and then went to work
for Sears Roebuck. And Sears Roebuck sent him out to Washington State and that's where he never
really practiced law because he was too busy selling Sears products, I guess.
[Laughter]
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
EH: But I suddenly realized, having looked at this, that Duane finished this in 1974 and that some of us
who are still living ought to update it. Well, he had five kids and so I sent an email off to all of them
yesterday saying that it suddenly struck me that some of us needed to bring this up to date while we’re
still around. And I don't think they’ve… well, I haven't heard back from any of them yet. And there's a
son who was a rather famous jazz musician. Well, a cousin of mine. So anyway, I hope that some of us
will be willing to bring it up to date. And I can't imagine any of them would object and probably would
never know anyway if I had some of us stand...
PK: What is the date of the copyright, Ed?
EH: What?
PK: What is the date when this is copyrighted?
NS: Because the law is different depending on when the copyright was.
GH: It just says 1974.
PK: Oh, so the copyright may still be enforced.
NS: We can... I think that when we get to the part of scanning it, if we ask Melanie then…
EH: Okay,
NS: ...we can see what she has to say. Is there a copy of this in the historical society?
EH: No.
NS: Okay, just for your family?
EH: I wish there were and I don’t know if there’s any loose copies around, there might be now because
some family members may have died and their offspring have no interest it, but I'm not sure of that.
Ideally if the whole thing could be in there...
GH: We need to get it. We have a copy at home and this one at the cottage.
EH: No, this is Steve's.
GH: Oh, no, that's the one I took out of our bookcase.
EH: Oh, it is, okay. This... we have it then; one in each place.
PK: Well, of course, you know that you're at liberty to deposit this with the historical society, quite apart
from scanning it.
EH: Yeah, okay.
PK: Whether it's, you know, whether the copyright’s enforced or not.
NS: Yeah, especially if you fear later it might not be preserved, you know, down the line, then that could
be a good idea. Sometimes people save a lot of things and then, you know, not everybody saves it after
they're gone, unfortunately.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
PK: It's awfully hard for families to keep things and let them get destroyed. And I'm right in the middle of
it in my family. So, if I may, I urge you to… if you have a spare copy to deposit it with the historical
society…
NS: Think about it.
PK: ...then if you want to update it, there's no reason you can't do that. Then they might eventually have
two versions. The earlier and the later. All the better.
NS: Yeah. Sometimes families, even if they want to preserve it, though, you know, the basement floods
or something, you know, things are accidents. People move, lose track of things.
PK: Well, I've been desperately trying to keep family records together, and I find that little bits of paper
just sort of wander off. And so, the earlier they get deposited in a place that professionally can keep
them the better, I think.
NS: Now, what's this one that you have there? Is this about the nursery?
EH: Indirectly. This is my dad here in the picture. And I made copies of this yesterday. And the historical
society has one already so…
GH: They copied that, you’re saying.
EH: No, but was one thing, well I guess, we found.
NS: So, this nursery…
EH: Yeah.
NS: ...when your family worked on that, what can you tell? What do you think is really significant? What
do you remember about it?
EH: Well, the fact is that a high percentage of all of the fruit trees in Oceana County and up and down
the west shore of Lake Michigan were originally produced and sold by Hawley’s Nursery - the Hawley
Nursery is the correct name. And so, in order to have the trees to sell, we had to get rootstock from
someplace out in Oregon or Washington state, I'm not quite sure which. And then someone in March of
each year, we'd have to have a field where they would plant all of this rootstock. And then come August,
some of us - including me and a lot of kids from high school and all of my relatives of roughly the same
age, my cousins - all crawled on our hands and knees up and down fields all over this county, because
my dad needed fresh ground not to do this on the same field every time. So, he would lease land all over
the county, really. And then send us… we had some very experienced and very fast and good budders
[?].
But the technique was - having cut off the tops of these and dropping the root stock - was to... the
budder [?] would go down the aisle and make a cut in the rootstock, and then he'd have a bundle that
my dad would have or somebody going out into the orchards where there was fruit, true to name on a
tree, and cut off a stick of buds. And as he crawled down, the person crawled down the aisle, pulled one
out from behind and made a slip behind it, kind of a pointed slip. And then he would cut like this and
slide that down into the rootstock. And then some of us would crawl along behind with a specific length
of rubber band and wrap that up tightly. And then it would be left until the next spring when that bud
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
would sprout and grow. And I think it was usually a year later when those were dug out of the ground
and sold to farmers.
And I was intrigued just a year ago now that a friend, a near contemporary of mine in high school, Todd
Novles [?] died and he had written his own obituary and he spent his adult life basically over on the
other side of the state. But he wanted his obit[uary] because he would come over, he had a cottage… his
family had a cottage on Pentwater Lake and it’s still in the family.
And so, Tom, when he wrote his own obituary, and wanted one in the Oceana Journal, what he talked
about in his obituary was how he crawled up and down the aisles budding [laughter] or tying rather
behind the budder.
PK: Does this then produce hybrid stock?
EH: What?
PK: Does this produce a hybrid, the rootstock plus what's going in?
EH: No, the root stock…
GH: ...it doesn’t influence it.
EH: ...it doesn’t influence it.
PK: Oh, it's merely the host!
EH: Yeah.
NS: It’s like grafted together.
GH: Yeah.
PK: Okay.
NS: What kind of fruit was it?
EH: What?
NS: What kind of fruits?
EH: Basically plums, pears, cherries - I think I’m onto five - and peaches…
PK: And apples!
EH: And apples, yeah. But then we always had I think usually just one quince among all of these. But and
so those were all true to name and the people that bought them would be confident that they would be
producing the same kind of peach or apple. My dad said it was, so…
NS: Do you think it changed over from when you were smaller till later? Like, what kinds or different
varieties?
EH: Well, they were intended to be fewer and fewer. My sister still has in her house a catalog from the
Hawley Nursery from something like 1907 that lists at least twenty-five different varieties of - I think it's
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
nearer a hundred different varieties - of all five of these. And because not all of them were sold
commercially, that list got smaller and smaller as the years went on down to maybe forty varieties.
NS: What do you think was the most biggest change from when it first started until now?
EH: Well, the biggest change is that small nurseries like this were gradually forced out of business by the
big commercial ones. What’s the one down in Kansas… near Kansas City? I should remember. Starcrow's
[?] is one, but there are several of these that have pretty much forced all of the smaller nurseries out of
business.
PK: Hawley Nursery no longer is in business?
EH: It's no longer in business. The fruit farm is because David and Joann Rennhack operate the fruit
farm… live on and operate the fruit farm and have the Rennhack store now down across from Hansen’s
where they sell all of their stuff.
PK: Rennhack inherited or bought your business?
EH: They inherited it; Joann is my niece so…
PK: Really?
EH: Yeah.
PK: Wonderful family.
EH: So, and Martha Ann… technically, Martha Ann and I are the inheritors in that generation, but Martha
Ann passed hers down to Joann, and then Joann married David, so that's the connection there.
NS: Do you remember roundabout when that stopped being able to be a nursery and went more to just
the fruit farm part?
EH: Yeah. John Hawley who his… my dad was Monroe Hawley. And then he had a brother, Morris, who
died in the flu epidemic in the First World War in 1918. And then there were three girls in that family.
And then my uncle, Herb, who has two daughters and a son, John, who's still… and John kept the
nursery going for quite a while and had a place over on Polk Road for a while. But he and his wife were
living in what is now the clubhouse for the Colonial Golf Course over on 72nd here. And that was a fruit
farm which John also inherited when his dad died. He had kept it going because Herb wanted it to keep
going, I think. And so, John took out all the fruit trees and made a golf course instead and he now is the
manager of the golf course. And that's where Gretchen went to see if he had any Hawley Nursery stuff.
GH: He didn’t, but he said hello.
[Laughter]
NS: When did the golf course go in?
EH: What?
NS: When do you think the golf course went in?
EH: I think it's fifteen years ago, roughly, I'd have to…
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
PK: There was a restaurant there also for quite a while, was there not?
GH: Well, there still is.
PK: Oh, still is? That’s still running?
GH: Inside Herb’s… that was the Herb Hawley house, that's the clubhouse.
PK: You mean that beautiful, beautiful house there?
GH: That was Herb’s house.
EH: Before that, we always think of it as the Russell House because the original owner of that land, the
man who built the house, was Judge Russell and Russell's Creek flows through and down and eventually
into Hart Lake. And my uncle, Herb, bought that from the Russell family after Judge Russell died, and
then he and Lucille, well, they built a smaller house for themselves and had John and Sandy living in the
other house, in the big house. But Herb and Lucille are long gone. There was almost an even thirteen
year difference between my dad and Herb, and then I’m about thirteen years beyond that. There’s all
these girl children in between.
NS: And this is ‘52 and this is your dad?
EH: Yeah.
NS: And it says he was a nursery man.
EH: Yeah.
NS: And he had the nursery through maybe the [nineteen] sixties, seventies or longer?
EH: Well, he had… he and Herb together had the nursery. And then John took over when both of them
were gone...
NS: And he still had the nursery.
EH: ...and he still had the nursery.
NS: And then part of it became a golf course.
PK: How many acres of trees did the Hawley Family have at the maximum, would you say roughly?
EH: Well, there was that original eighty-seven acres, and then my dad bought what we called the Turner
Farm across the street, across the road from that original property. And the reason he bought it is the
man that did these wonderful postcards and note cards for the historical society just died a few weeks
ago.
PK: You don't mean Ed Ricketson, do you?
EH: I do.
PK: Oh!
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
EH: Yeah. Because he worked on all those cards and I read his obit[uary] and didn't catch the fact that
that’s whose obit[uary] I was reading, somehow. But, yeah, it was Ed Ricketson. And anyway, where was
I going with that? [Laughter]
PK: How large the enterprise was…
EH: Oh, yes! And the reason for the Turner Farm. And that is that my mother grew up in Adrian,
Michigan, which is down close to Toledo... closer to Toledo than any other sizable place. Anyway, she’s
from Adrian. She went to Adrian College, then she got a master’s degree from the University of
Michigan, and then she got hired to come up and teach high school in Hart. And it happened my dad's
sisters were in her classes and dad, my grandfather, had been in… no, now we’re with my dad. My dad
was in the Second World War and was with an army unit that went over to France.
GH: Well, that would be the First World War, Ed.
EH: Oh, my memory is...
GH: [Laughter]
NS: It's okay.
EH: ...playing tricks on me.
GH: It is.
PK: There wasn't much time between the First World War and the Second. It’s easy to conflate them.
NS: He met your mom, then, when she was at the school?
EH: Yeah, that's right. This is the First World War, as Gretchen says. And so, my dad, Monroe, had
missed going to Europe because he had scarlet fever, and the unit went without him, but he got
discharged then after the armistice and came back to Hart. And his sisters had Doris Hawley as their
teacher and she said they liked her very much and thought that they should introduce her to their
brother.
And so, one of the funnier stories about that is that he began dating Doris at his sisters’ encouragement
and it was in the middle of the winter for them when this was happening and he had a sleigh and a
horse. And so, he took her out in the winter with lots of rogues [?] for this ride in the sleigh and the
horse knew the way and they got acquainted with each other as they went. And he suddenly realized to
his embarrassment that the horse had turned in at the driveway of the girl that he had dated before.
[Laughter]
GH: The horse knew the way.
NS: It seems like the sisters overruled the horse, though.
GH: [Laughter] Yeah.
NS: The horse had an opinion about this, too, I guess. [Laughter]
EH: He made some kind of excuse, which I probably once knew, but no longer.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
[Laughter]
PK: Well, they got married anyway! [Laughter]
EH: Yeah, right. [Laughter]
GH: Dorris' maiden name was Adair and that's Ed's middle name.
PK: Now, all this had something to do with the growth of acreage because that's where we started from.
EH: Oh, yes, the Turner Farm. The original farm was in the Gulliver [?] School District. One of the things
that - oh, what was it - the man we were just talking about produced is a card that there were one-room
schools that sometimes got expanded to two rooms all across the county that served grades one
through eight. And I just signed off this morning to a friend of mine that's helping me write my memoirs,
because right where we're sitting here in the bottom center of that card, there's a picture of a building
that ran from up here all the way back to the playground at the back down there that’s above Courtland
Street, where I went to school from kindergarten through senior in high school and all in the same
building. And so, and then it has pictures of several of these country schoolhouses on that same...
GH: Yeah, but the reason your dad bought the Turner farm?
EH: Yeah, oh, that's where we were going was that my mother was still teaching in high school. And so
instead of us kids having to walk up the road half a mile to the Garver [?] School, which our neighbor
kids did have to do because Dad bought the Turner Farm across the street, it was in the Hart District.
And my mother was still teaching in Hart, so she could take us into Hart School and we could go to a
single-grade classroom because he was paying taxes on that property.
PK: How big was Turner Farm?
EH: Turner Farm, I think - it’s been expanded some - but I think initially it was pretty much a standard
ninety-acre quarter section.
PK: So, all together then you had at that point maybe one hundred eighty acres or so?
EH: Something in that neighborhood. And then they bought some other additional that was beyond
that, too.
NS: And maybe, you said before, maybe leased some other?
EH: Huh?
NS: You said before, maybe leased some other lands sometimes?
EH: Oh, yeah, almost every year. For example, one year I can remember he’d leased land out in Elbridge
Township in what had been the American Indian Reservation.
Gretchen grew up in Lowell and Cobmoosa, who was a chief of one of the Indian nationalities, actually
lived in Lowell in a regular house. She’ll correct me if I'm wrong.
GH: [Laughter]
EH: But then because the federal government decided that they should give these people some of their
historical land, they made this Indian reservation; all of Elbridge Township, originally, was American
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
Indian. And so Cobmoosa decided that he should come up because he was a chief of his people, he
should come up and live on that land. And his log house is now down in the Hart Historical District down
here.
But I can remember when it was still out in Elbridge Township and my dad had rented probably
something like twenty acres across the street from it for budding. So, for about three weeks in August,
we would take lunch and go over. By then, no one was living in the Cobmoosa house. But we would have
our lunch over there and then go back to crawling up and down the aisles across the street. And then
eventually they carefully took it apart and reconstructed it down here in the historical district.
GH: Before you did budding in high school and all, your dad hired you kids to hang out in the orchards.
EH: [Laughter] Oh, I knew she wanted me to tell this story.
GH: [Laughter]
EH: Child labor.
GH: [Laughter]
EH: And this is when Martha Ann and I and our neighbor kids - the Nickleson girl and a boy, we were
roughly the same age - that played together. Dad had a cherry tree that was out in the orchard with lots
of other cherry trees, but that bloomed about a week earlier than the others. And as soon as it would
have fruit on it, the Cedar Waxwings would all come in to eat the cherries off the tree. So, my dad
offered us a nickel a day - the four of us - if we would go out and play under these trees to scare the
Cedar Waxwings away. So that is child labor laws [laughter] were being violated for a nickel a day.
NS: What about the other… aside from the important job that you all did when you were kids, were the
other people who worked for your dad and worked for the nursery… where did they come from? High
Schoolers?
EH: I hope Walter has lined up... because the house that Martha Ann and I were born in, I still own, but
it’s kind of… my dad just pulled it out of the farm when it went over to the Rennhacks and eventually it
has to get back into their hands. But I'm renting it currently to Tommy [?], who works at the La Fiesta
restaurant and her brother now runs it or her father. But that family all came up in the summer to work
on my dad's... on the nursery and the fruit farm for my dad.
As did a, for example, this is sometimes forgotten, a white family from Alabama who were also part of
this migration of people that went around picking crops and that white family whose name will come to
me and should eventually, stayed here in Hart and of course, because they learned the nursery and fruit
business, were doing some of the same things on their own.
And that same thing was true with Tommy and her family and that family named her brother now
inherited from her father, who was the original one who came up and worked seasonally, is down in the
valley between the golf course and Polk Road and he keeps the place up beautifully. And so, we have
that connection also with the history of Mexican ancestry people who have now settled here. And I
think Walter has him on schedule to be a part of this.
PK: Ed, a couple of people whom I interviewed, particularly Floyd Fox and Velo Burmeister, both of
whom were in their mid-nineties when I interviewed them...
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
EH: And Floyd is still around, I think.
PK: Yes, he is. I understand he's still healthy, as a matter of fact.
EH: That’s right. I go to Shelby Church and he's five years older than I am.
PK: Still driving his own truck, as a matter of fact.
EH: Yeah, right.
PK: Well, each of them told me the succession of waves of pickers started, as you have already told us,
with the kids in the family.
EH: Uh huh.
PK: And then they moved on to different categories. With the Latino pickers, they were all Mexicans to
start with, were they not?
EH: Yep.
PK: Came in...
EH: Well, no, some of them were Texicans, actually, that they were born in Texas, but of Mexican
ancestry.
PK: But they were of Mexican ancestry, not Honduran or Guatemalan or Puerto Rican.
EH: No.
PK: Can you give us an idea of the succession of categories of people who picked and otherwise worked
on your family's acreage, starting with the family and then…
NS: When you were a kid, did they hire people outside the family to work?
EH: I think so.
NS: Do you remember?
PK: And who were they? I don't mean their names, but were they other Anglos or were they?
EH: There was... I don't ever remember any black families.
PK: Oh, blacks did not pick for you. As you know, they did for other families.
EH: Uh huh. There was one black family and one black man, Gabe Crocket [?], and one black family, the
Reeds [?], that lived in Hart when I was a small kid. But how they got here… they were just here. Oh, but
I think the Reeds had to have probably come up from Muskegon and probably did start working. But my
memory, because at one point they lived in the Garver School District and there were two girls - Fanny
and I'm not sure I can remember their name - and i think two boys. But there was a time when they
were living in the Garver School District and would walk past and further to the north because they
would walk past our house and the Nichols [?] house to go up to Garver School. And Fanny had a great
voice and was a wonderful singer. And Estelle, I think, Estelle was mentally challenged and she kept
being left behind so she'd be much bigger than the other kids in her class, but Fanny, Mrs. Nichols [?]
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
would invite them to come into her house. She had a piano and she would get Fanny to sing. And I
remember as small kids, they were somewhat older than we were. We would be fascinated by listening
to her sing.
GH: But they never worked in the orchards for your dad?
EH: No, I don't think they ever worked for my dad, but they were here and Gabe had the house in Hart
and I know right where it is, still. And he was a very short man. He probably was only five [foot] two
[inches] or something like that. And he allowed himself to be the butt of people's jokes at the county
fair. But I remember the men coming up to him and pinning prize bull or something on his collar and he
would just smile and go on.
PK: But he didn't work for you?
EH: He didn't work for us.
PK: You mentioned a family from Alabama.
EH: Yeah.
PK: They were white people.
EH: They were white.
PK: And you remember when that would have been? What decade, at least?
EH: That would have been in the late 1930s or early 1940s.
PK: Now, as you know, they were great, at least one, maybe two prisoner of war camps here for
Germans.
EH: There were.
PK: And they worked for a lot of people. Did they work for you?
EH: No, I don’t think they did. I remember walking by there on our way back and forth from school
because one of them was just south of what is now Polk Road, which wasn’t then called Polk Road, I
don’t remember what it was. But I do remember that they were there, but they didn't... I don't think
Dad ever had any of them working on the farm.
PK: Well, then was the Vasquez family the first of the Latino families who…
EH: I think so, yes.
PK: That would have been when? 1950s, perhaps, or?
EH: Better ask Tommy or her brother. Let me think, it was earlier than that in the 1940s, probably.
NS: During World War Two.
EH: What?
NS: During World War Two, the federal government had a program where they brought workers from
Mexico directly. Sometimes they called them “braceros.”
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
EH: Oh, yeah.
NS: And they were mostly all men. They were supposed to be all men, not families.
EH: Yes.
NS: Do you remember them coming?
EH: Not to Michigan, but I remember them coming to California and how they...
NS: Were you in California?
EH: Oh, the folk singer had this... John Denver had the song, I think…
NS: Guthrie?
EH: ...which would be later.
NS: Guthrie, maybe?
GH: Not John Denver.
EH: Who was it?
GH: Woody Guthrie?
EH: Woody Guthrie. It was Woody that had this…
PK: John Denver would be flattered to be compared to Woody Guthrie.
EH: Yes, Woody Guthrie had this… oh, I thought I could sing the words to that song even about being
forced to go back to Mexico.
NS: Yeah, that continued for a while until 1964 for that program.
EH: Yeah.
NS: And then it ended, so yeah.
PK: Did you help the Vasquez family get started in the restaurant business? They're so successful now
that it's very interesting to a lot of people how they made the transition from migrant laborers to solid
members of the commercial community here in Oceana County. Was your family instrumental in helping
them make that transition?
EH: Well, I don't remember any specific instances of it,
but just the fact that they knew they’d always have employment on the nursery or the fruit farm. It gave
them, I think, the stability to be able to develop their talents along that line and create their marvelous
chips that are now probably even more the part of the business than the restaurant.
[Unknown]: Slide past. I’ve got to use the restroom.
NS: [Whispers] It’s okay.
[Unknown]: Sorry about that.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
NS: Sorry, so you mentioned some people who came to work from different places.
EH: Uh huh.
NS: And then sometimes high schoolers would come and you would go when you were in high school
and when you were younger. How were those people recruited, especially who came from other places?
How did they find out? Or at first, you know, like, they get in their car in Alabama and how do they end
up at the Hawley’s?
EH: I'm not sure I know, they just appeared!
[Laughter]
NS: Well, after a while, they must… they came back year after year.
EH: Yeah.
NS: Right? But if a family decided not to come back, then you needed more people to replace them.
How would they… how would your dad or other family recruit people?
EH: I think we would say to the ones already here, “do you know anybody else?” And they would then
say, “well, yes, there’s so-and-so, and I'll tell them.” So, that's how that would happen.
NS: Do you know what time of the year when they would arrive? Usually?
EH: Usually, I think in June. I doubt that any arrived much earlier than that, but I would need to think
about that more to be sure. A lot of them had a routine that would then eventually take them down to
Florida to pick tomatoes after stopping in New York State to do something or other. So, it was a big
circle, Texas, and maybe with the stuff in Missouri on the way to Michigan, I'm not sure about that but…
it was Missouri or Iowa, but.
PK: Did any of the… well, how many Mexican pickers did you have at one time at the maximum, do you
think? It wasn’t just one family, I'm sure.
EH: Oh, boy. I think John Hawley is the one that really could answer that better than I.
PK: Do you happen to know, to remember...?
EH: Once I finished high school, I was here so little. John was on the ground all the time, so he would be
a better person to ask.
PK: Do you recall whether any of them moved into supervisory positions, at least field bosses or
managers or anything other than the pickers on the ground? I know that's fairly rare, but I do know of a
case or two where somebody who started picking ended his career managing. Chico Longoria, for
instance, who worked for the Fox’s for a long time, whose obituary appeared in the Herald Journal last
year, was a conspicuous case. Are there any such people who worked for the Hawley’s?
EH: Oh, well, the Vazquez’s, of course.
PK: But were they in a managerial position for you or is it only after they left Hawley to go on their own?
EH: Well, as I say, when I graduated from high school, which was 1941, I do not recall, but after that, I
just wasn't around enough to be aware because I was going straight through school.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
NS: After school, after you went to school in Chicago, too, then what did you do?
EH: What?
NS: After you went to the school in Chicago, then what was the rest of your life?
EH: Well, the first thing that happened...
NS: How did you end up back here in Hart?
EH: The first thing that happened is that once the war was over and I no longer had this compulsion to
keep going to school, I had in 1946, I had connections with what our denomination called the
Congregational Christian Service Committee. And Jim Flindt, who was on the staff of the big
congregational church in Madison, Wisconsin; Jim was also on the board of the Congregational Christian
Service Committee.
And the congregational churches in Great Britain - and we did have an international congregational
organization - were completely closed down, their theological schools, during the war and with the
bombing and everything going on. And the tradition had been that young people who were studying for
the clergy in Great Britain would go into various inner-city programs to work with kids and youth and
children,
and that just completely shut down. So once the war was over and the seminarians were going back to
school.
[Cough] Well, I may need… well, all right. [Inaudible]
They recruited seminary students from here to go over to Britain for a year and work in these places.
[Cough] And Jim Flindt knew me from the Pilgrim Fellowship, which was the youth group of the
congregation. [Cough] He asked me if I would like to go and I jumped at the chance to do something
besides study.
And so, in September of 1946, I got on the Queen Mary - which was still a one-class ship at that point
because it had been a troop ship during the war - and went to Great Britain and wound up at the
Crossway Central Mission in South London, near what is still called the “Elephant and Castle,” which is
the name of a pub in Southwark. And the New Kent Road connects up with the Elephant and Castle and
Crossway Mission was at New Kent Road.
Bill Martin, W.B.J. Martin, who was a Welshman who had been working in London inner city in the
height of the bombing over on the East Side and somehow got through all that. He was then the
minister and that building after the old city missionary [?] had a tower that had three apartments in it…
maybe two apartments. But anyway, Bill Martin and his wife, who is also an ordained minister, were on
the one floor and the caretaker who lived on the top floor - the last name was Vassie (V-a-s-s-i-e) - and
they would come to me and they had a spare room. So then, as it turned out, for two years I lived with
the Vassies on the top floor. And so, there are lots of connections with that. I'm not sure how far we’re
going in terms of Hawley’s Nursery now but...
NS: Well, but then you were in London and then, for two years, and then…
EH: Yeah, I was at Crossway Mission for one year, but stayed with the Vassies because I had been
national president of the Pilgrim Fellowship, which was the youth organization for the congregational
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
churches in this country. And the Congregational Union of England and Wales had a youth division and
decided they wanted to have something similar in Great Britain. So, they asked me to stay a second year
and travel around to all the different counties and meet with the youth of the churches in those areas to
help them form.
That was the pattern of Pilgrim Fellowship. Each different confluence had its own organization so that
was the connection there and was fantastic because… oh, and in between these two things was the
Second World Conference of Christian Youth, which was held in Oslo, Norway. And I had been doing the
work at the Crossway Mission and their work with the youth program really wasn't going to start, so I
had that summer fairly free and because each of the denominations had people that would go to this
Second World Conference of Christian Youth, and I was closer so, at least, I think it was easier for them
to make me one of them because it wasn't going to cost as much to get me there from London as it was
from New York City or California or someplace or Hawaii. And so, I did, I was able to spend two weeks
there and again, these marvelous connections. And this is certainly a long way from where we started.
The Congregational Churches Worldwide had the foresight to call a pre-Oslo conference,
which was held at… there was a Congregational College at Cambridge University, and they got
Congregationalists from all over the world to come together for a week there. And one of the people
who came was Russell Chandran from the Church of South India, and he was from Bangalore.
Russell and I not only got to know each other at the meeting in Cambridge, but when we got to Oslo,
that program was divided up with small groups. And he and I wound up in the same group for two
weeks in Oslo. So, we got to know each other quite well and he eventually came to do some additional
study. He and his wife, Vicki, from South India, came to Chicago Theological Seminary, which was my
seminary. By then, I was the minister of the interracial and bilingual church on the west side of Chicago
and the…
NS: What church in Chicago?
EH: It was the Warren Avenue Congregational Church. It no longer exists, though. It merged with the
Presbyterian Church on the next corner. And the building now is a Black Baptist Church and it’s still
there. But that was another marvelous experience because…
EH: Oh.
NS: It's OK.
EH: Is it okay?
GH: Well, you've gotten far afield.
NS: You find all kinds of things.
PK: So, you went with the merger?
EH: Yeah.
GH: But you were in Chicago then, not Oberlin.
PK: And Bruce, as you know, went with the congregational holdout.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
EH: Over to the church, yeah, there’s still a Continuing Congregational Church out in Grand Rapids, isn’t
there?
PK: Mayflower.
EH: Mayflower, yeah.
PK: One of my relatives went there, the rest of them stayed at Park [?]. I'm happy to tell you they still
went together for Christmas.
EH: Oh, good. [Laughter] Well, that’s amazing.
PK: And we almost overlapped in London, apparently; I arrived in London in September 1949 and went
to work for the United Press and stayed there until 1951. But you had already left by then, had you?
EH: Yeah, but I came back in the summer of [nineteen] fifty-one for the Festival of Britain.
PK: Oh, how wonderful!
EH: And also, to direct a World Council of Churches work camp in Deptford south of the river and which
was one of the stranger work camps anyplace because the minister of this church...
PK: An inner-city slum work camp, huh?
EH: Yeah, it was decided that the building should be restored. But they had once had a much bigger
piece of land and had a graveyard outside. And way back in history, they had brought all the bones from
the graves outside into the basement. And when the minister decided he wanted to restore the building,
he had to get to the foundations and all these bones were down there. So, our work camp and the kids
from Germany and Denmark, World Council of Churches people from all over, a German guy and I were
co-directors of this, where our whole job was getting these bones out from around the foundations that
had to be supported.
PK: What did you do with the bones?
EH: Nothing ever came of it, in terms of actually getting the building changed.
PK: What did you do with the bones? Did you throw them in a pile?
EH: No, we were reburying them, but away from the pillar, we had to get the pillars cleared so that they
could be reinforced to hold up the rest of the building.
GH: So, they're still there; the bones are just relocated?
EH: They were the last I knew! But I have not kept up with that.
[Laughter]
EH: I don't follow bones around.
PK: You know, there’s something that struck me: are we sort of freewheeling now or do you have a part
of this you want to get back to? Because I think Ed and I are sort of going way past Oceana County.
NS: Well, you've discovered new things now, connections that you didn't know before.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
PK: Yeah, but I don't want to interfere with the core.
NS: It doesn't have to follow a linear path, necessarily. I think that might be kind of hard for us to…
PK: Well, I think Ed’s getting tired and I’m getting tired.
NS: Yes, that could be.
EH: Didn't Walter have other people that you're supposed to be interviewing lined up?
NS: Yeah. I think… are there things you wanted to talk about that you didn't get to yet? Before you
came, are there things you said, “Well, I'm going to…” because I don't want that to be missed out.
EH: Well, let me look at my notes. I’ll tell you what I wrote down.
NS: I don’t want him to leave not having talked about things he wanted to talk about. I doubt most
people got to all of these questions.
EH: This is pretty peripheral, but it's interesting how, again, things come together because Duane
Robinson, who put this book together… I had to come up here to do a lot of interviewing and, of course,
Duane, having been part of this branch from Seattle or West Seattle from our family, had come here
knowing that his dad, Morris Robinson, was from here. And at that point, when he came, Ivan Robinson
was still living and was on a farm just south of the farm that Martha Ann is still living on, and she and I
grew up on kind of on top of the hill. And all of his family, Duane had talked to them and had listed by
name in the book all of the Robinson family members that were living right in our neighborhood here in
Oceana County.
I broke the femur in my hip two summers ago and wound up in the Oceana County Medical Center. And
there was a man there… actually, two people that relate to this and I'll get to the other one, maybe two.
We’re a little more back to what we originally were aiming at anyway. And I discovered that one of them
who was a patient then in the medical center was named Manley Robinson. And he and I would eat
lunch together while I was in there rehabbing from my hip. And I eventually thought that I'd better go
look at this book. And sure enough, here was Manley’s name and Ivan… Duane had interviewed Ivan and
he listed all his brothers and who they were and where they were. So, again, I copied out of this book
that page where Manley’s name appeared and I was able to produce it for him at the medical center.
And he was so pleased and amazed he actually had his name in print.
PK: [Laughter] That’s great.
EH: He’s gone now, too. But, I’m glad before he went, he knew that he was remembered.
GH: Have you interviewed any of the families that are here now that worked in the orchards who came
up from Texas?
PK: I decided when Andy Schlewitz came up and interviewed a number of people who worked in the
orchards, that I would carve out something. At that time, nobody else was doing that, they were
interviewing the growers. So, I have not interviewed any pickers.
GH: When we were married in ‘58, the Hawley’s were still tapping all those old - well, now they're really
old - maple trees along 72nd Avenue and to make maple syrup.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
PK: Oh!
GH: And so those trees…
PK: Well, those are sugar maples then?
GH: Uh huh, those are all sugar maples.
PK: That's a pretty big industry in Oceana County.
GH: And they had, what was it called where you boiled the…
EH: An arch is what we called it.
GH: An arch. And they had the big pans that are about twice the size of this table. And they’d use old...
PK: That’s where they boiled the sap down?
EH: Yeah, right.
GH: They’d use old wood from the orchards, trees that were cut down, to keep the fires going. And Ed
was showing me this arch where the syrup was...
EH: We’d have the big pan...
PK: So, your family was in that business, too, then.
EH: Well, it wasn’t a business. We were just doing it for ourselves.
PK: Oh!
EH: Yeah.
NS: Home use.
PK: You didn't put your label on…?
EH and GH: No, no.
EH: No, it was all canned by my mother and we…
PK: I wondered where maple syrup came from.
GH: It takes a lot of sap to make the maple syrup. And those trees are still there, but no longer tapped.
But it was in that arch that you presented me with this engagement ring.
EH: Oh, that’s right!
GH: And I didn't fall into the fire. [Laughter] It was a great surprise.
PK: How many gallons of sap… [Inaudible] [Laughter].
GH: I don’t know. Yes, but besides that, did your mother can a lot of fruit or not?
EH: Yes, we had that whole basement… well, you've been down in the basement.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
GH: Oh, that’s right.
EH: Remember, we had all those cupboards of things she’d canned that would be used during the
winter.
NS: But when you were a kid, she still worked at the school?
EH: Well, not too long.
NS: Just a little?
EH: Long enough to get us established going there. But I think by the time I was in second grade, she had
stopped teaching and was just homemaking, but we were still going. And of course, often we would
walk to town to school and walk back on the railroad tracks. And that was always a challenge to try to
walk on the rail and not fall off as we were walking home from school.
GH: The tracks that are now the Rail Trail?
EH: The tracks that are now the Rail Trail.
GH: Okay.
PK: Which run right through what I think of as the Rennhack...
EH: What?
PK: The Rail Trail runs right through the… what I have always thought of as the Rennhack orchards,
right?
EH: Uh huh.
GH: Yeah, those were the Hawley…
PK: Which were the Hawley orchards.
GH: Uh huh. Those were the Hawley orchards.
PK: Your niece is married to a Rennhack? Or is her maiden name Rennhack?
EH: No, that’s her married name.
PK: She's a Hawley who married a Rennhack?
EH: No, she’s a Piegols. Because she’s my sister Martha Ann Piegols… Martha Ann Hawley Piegols’
daughter. So, her original name was Piegols and now it's Rennhack.
PK: May I drop your name the next time I'm there?
GH: Absolutely! [Laughter]
EH: Well, certainly.
PK: They're wonderful people.
EH: Yeah, we agree.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
PK: I’m all done; are you all done?
NS: We can be; it's kind of up to you. I could ask you, frankly, I could sit here and ask you both questions
all day.
[Laughter]
NS: All day. But I think that, you know, there's a limit to what you can... I could think of more and more.
It's up to you.
GH: I remember something that has to do tangentially with the orchards and apparently what they
produced and financially. And that is that when we went to East Africa with our World Board and I had a
baby three months after we got into Tanzania, they had to... they flew over to visit their new
granddaughter. And I remember Monroe Hawley saying that he did that because he had a good apple
crop. So that was an apple trip financed by the apple crop. And then when we moved up six years later
to Nairobi, they decided to come again and he said that was a plum trip.
EH: Oh, that's right. I had forgotten that! [Laughter]
PK: Did you hear echoes of that rhythm from other families? I'll give you an example, but I'm wondering
if… well, let me tell you the example and you can tell me whether you have other examples.
I interviewed Barbara Bull and Barbara Bull, as you know, is an alumna of Mount Holyoke College. Her
younger sister is an alumna of I don't know what, but at any rate, it’s not one of the seven sisters. And I
said to Barbara, I said, “your sister is a brilliant pediatrician, I believe. Now, how come you went to
Mount Holyoke and she went to some state school?” And Barbara's answer, just like that, was: “because
we had a very good cherry crop the year I went to college.” And you're echoing that.
GH: Uh huh.
PK: Do you find that with other picker families, excuse me, other grower families, too? That, of course,
your income is so totally dependent on the weather and other things you can't control that there must
be an enormous variation from year to year.
EH: Yeah.
PK: Whether you can go to East Africa or wherever.
GH: Yes, they make two trips over. He also went to horticultural meetings in England - Monroe did.
PK: And were those on the years that there were good crops?
GH: I expect they would have been, but I don't know. And the horticulturalist from England that he met
there came and visited the Hawley Nurseries here.
PK: Really?
GH: In fact, you're still in touch...
EH: Well, Duane is, anyway, with one of the families because they’ve had kids come over and work on
the farm. The man that Dad knew was the editor of a gardener magazine in England. Thought I would
have the name of it come to mind, but it didn't. And so, I think he had come to the States first and
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
somehow met Dad at a meeting. And then they got to corresponding and so that got quite to be back
and forth and went on to the next generation. That's the son of the man that my Dad knew that Joann
keeps in touch with and who we've been over to visit and had their kids come over or a kid come over
and spend the summer working on the farm.
GH: So, there's an international exchange that goes on.
PK: I thought I was all done, but I guess I'm not because each of you and Gretchen have just touched on
something that surprised me very much.
I’m, as you know, I'm only a summer person here, but I was brought up on the shore of Lake Michigan in
Ottawa County at Port Sheldon. And I expected when I bought my cottage thirty-two years ago, and I
expected when I bought it, that the citizens of Oceana County would be people whose worlds were very
small, very circumscribed by just the local environment. And I was surprised the very first year and have
been surprised ever since repeatedly by the breadth of connections in the world of people in Oceana
County.
And do you think… have you just told me what the answer to this dilemma in my mind is? That it's
because of commercial and agricultural missions and visits, do you think that’s what really is essentially
behind it?
GH: And going to conferences over in England and all. And I remember Monroe saying none of the apple
varieties in England were what he grew here. They were all different.
PK: Well, you probably noticed that there is an unusual - I think it's unusually high - student exchange
between families in Oceana County and families abroad. Is this part of… do you think that this mood for
wanting such exchanges was set by these earlier...?
GH: I don't know.
PK: And of course, I don't know whether it's higher than it is in other countries in Michigan now,
because I left Michigan when I was sixteen years old and didn't come back until I was seventy, so…
[laughter].
GH: Oh, my.
PK: I don’t know what’s happened in the meantime.
GH: I remember when - I don't remember the year, but - when the cherry pickers first… the picking
machines first came in, that Monroe, very excitingly, had us watch how they operated.
EH: The shakers.
GH: The shakers... that picked all the cherries at once. Not the sweets, they still had to pick the sweets
by hand. Is that right?
EH: Yeah.
GH: But the tarts, they could use the shakers and they’d come down in a curtain of red down to a
canvas.
NS: Was he happy with how it worked?
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
GH: Well, the old orchards, when the trees would be shaking, the old branches would go flying. You had
to be careful not to get hit. But now they're planting the orchards and with shakers in mind because
that's what they use. And so, you don't have the old twigs hitting you on the head when they use them.
And of course, the trees now are much shorter than they were. And they had three-legged ladders that
the pickers used. And you can still see some of those around because they could fit under the tree. They
had the regular ladder with a third leg.
PK: Are those sweet cherries still picked by hand? Even now?
GH: I don't know, are they?
EH: I think so, but I'm not sure about that.
GH: Well, during the last few years, didn't you and your sister have to pick cherries and leave the stems
on because he got more money for them if they were on the stem?
EH: Yeah, that's true.
GH: Yeah.
NS: I guess one of the questions that was on there, too, that some of what you had said does remind me
of, I wonder if we might get to it a little bit, is your dad and some of the other people went to meet with
other horticulturalists, maybe trade varieties or talk about different techniques or even find out about
the cherry picker machine shaker thing. Did they participate in different organizations that were for
nurserymen or growers or farmers?
EH: There’s a Michigan Horticultural Society that meets every December and usually in Grand Rapids, I
think, maybe in other places. And Dad was always active in that. And he and my mother would plan to
go down to Grand Rapids. We had, well, my sister, Ruthie, was down there anyway, so they had a place
to stay. And they would spend those three days in Grand Rapids for the Horticultural Society meeting.
And Dad was the one who went to the meetings, and my mother and Ruthie did whatever they wanted
to do.
I'm going to mention one more thing that's on my list, and it's not really very direct, but we would...
because the nursery actually had a southern branch that my uncle, Ed - all of his side of the family called
him Harry, I never quite figured out why - he was Uncle Ed to all of us, but he was Grandfather Harry on
that side. But anyway, his wife, I was a little embarrassed when we would go down because Uncle Ed
would have some areas for budding patches and we would go down to spend maybe four or five days in
his budding patches. And it was always an adventure because he’d put us all in the back of the truck
and, of course, no seatbelts or anything and then drive madly down these country roads to where we
were going to be working that day.
PK: Where was that? In southern Michigan?
EH: Fennville.
PK: Oh.
EH: He, actually, his...
PK: You mentioned Ganges.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
EH: Well, originally Ganges is where our family came from.
PK: That's right on the lake, isn’t it?
EH: Right on the lake, that's right. In fact, Dad showed me the house once that I think I remember
correctly. There was a river or big creek or something that empties into Lake Michigan and just on the
south side of that creek is the house he said is the family house, but I don't know if I could go back and
find it.
PK: I hope that house is still in the family because lakefront property at that latitude is worth an awful
lot of money. [Laughter]
EH: We have kind of shirttail relatives who live in a house in Douglas County that is south of where the
road got washed out many, many years ago. But they don’t have lakeshore property, but they are part
of a common area of homes that do have access to Lake Michigan. And they're trying to sell their house
now, and even though the lake is so high and there's so much erosion, just the fact that they're hoping
to visit us next month. And he's a very skilled jazz musician.
PK: Oh, wonderful.
EH: But they're trying to sell their house and it's tied to the fact that there is this lake access, even
though it's down a lot of steps to get there.
NS: So, what you wanted to tell us about going to the farm in Fennville?
EH: Oh, yeah. The connection is that Uncle Ed's wife was a Plummer - her family name was Plummer.
And I didn't know that until later. I had stayed with her, but what her maiden name was never came up.
And when I finally learned it, I realized that I lived in a co-op house at Michigan State and one of the
other members of that co-op house was also a Plummer and probably we had some kind of an indirect
connection there with the two families.
But then Charlie Spencer was [inaudible] but Uncle Ed's grandson still was when he was living. And he
died maybe fifteen years ago, so fairly recently, and his second wife had land on the west side of
Fennville. The train to Grand Rapids goes through his land, basically, by Fennville. And so, he had that
connection and we had stopped to see him, at that time we were in Chicago and driving back and forth
and stopped to see Charlie. He always wanted me to meet his wife's daughter, Ginny, who we would
never quite stay long enough. He’d tell her to come. But she's the one now we’re going to be meeting on
the Fifth of July, when they head up to a jazz event up in Leelanau County and they’ll come by to see us.
PK: Excuse me, see you later.
NS: Yes, I think we might be wrapping this up here.
EH: Yeah, well…
NS: I’ve tired you… we’ve tired you both out, I think maybe. [Laughter] Thank you.
GH: ...quite far afield.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
EH: Oh, I did… I copied out and these are from the book and not the memorial society. This page and a
little bit here are the Hawley… and there was one strange… I may try to talk to Walter about this,
because it gives my grandmother's maiden name as Render.
NS: Mm hmm.
EH: But it was actually Bender.
NS: Oh, it's not correct.
EH: So, somebody couldn’t read somebody’s writing, obviously.
NS: That happens sometimes.
EH: In fact, it goes on here later to talk about her brother, Jim, and calls his name Bender.
GH: Are you leaving that with her?
EH: No.
NS: Well, let's go over to the place where they have the scanning machine.
EH: Okay.
NS: And we can talk to the woman who might know about the copyright thing you said earlier and see
what they have to say.
EH: Okay.
NS: I don't know, but I'm going to make sure I'm not supposed to say anything at the end.
NS: Thank you both for your time. I’m supposed to say…
GH: He's so excited about doing this.
NS: Oh, thank you. I'm supposed to say, officially, this concludes the interview.
EH: Okay.
30
�
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a8c8a7bd816438fe21727bff5eccef2b.mp3
f25b14434abd191b9ea0af332a1f4d17
Dublin Core
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Title
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Oceana County Migrant Labor History Collection
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Shell-Weiss, Melanie
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Growing Community: A Century of Migration in Oceana County." This project was a collaboration between El Centro Hispano de Oceana, the Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society, and Grand Valley State University funded by a Common Heritage grant from the United States National Endowment for the Humanities. The materials in this collection document the history of communities in Hart, Shelby, and Walkerville and explore themes of migration, labor, religion, family, belonging, national and cultural identities, regional, national, and international connections, and citizenship.
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Oceana County (Mich.)
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Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
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Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives
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El Centro Hispano de Oceana; Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society
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Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage project)
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DC-06
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application/pdf
image/jpeg
audio/mp3
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Text
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Language
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eng
spa
Date
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2016
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Oceana County (Mich.)
Hart (Mich.)
Shelby (Mich.)
Farms
Farmers
Migrant agricultural laborers
Hispanic Americans
Account books
Diaries
Oral history
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
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DC-06_Hawley_Edward_and_Gretchen
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Hawley, Edward
Hawley, Gretchen
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2016-06-18
Title
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Hawley, Edward and Gretchen (audio interview and transcript)
Description
An account of the resource
Oral history interview with Edward A. Hawley and Gretchen Hawley. Interviewed by Nora Salas and Paul Kutsche on June 18, 2016 in Hart, Michigan. English language. Edward Adair Hawley was born in Hart Township, Michigan in 1923. He graduated from Hart High School in 1941, followed by Michigan State University in 1944, and a joint degree from Chicago Theological Seminary and the University of Chicago in 1949. Edward married his wife, Gretchen Hahn Hawley, in 1958 and was a part of the family business known as Hawley Nursery, which played an important role in the agricultural heritage of Oceana County and was responsible for producing a high percentage of all the fruit trees in the county and the west shore of Lake Michigan.
Contributor
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Salas, Nora (interviewer)
Kutsche, Paul (interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oceana County (Mich.)
Hart (Mich.)
Farms
Farmers
Fruit growers
Nursery growers
Michigan State University
Chicago Theological Seminary
University of Chicago
Audio recordings
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Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage)
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
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Sound
Text
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audio/mp3
application/pdf
Language
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eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4d45004f5d39d1d2ac503ca35680bb03.pdf
c3eae841389cc2cb653aef9182731e47
PDF Text
Text
Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
Carl Fuehring Interview
Interviewed by Alan Moul
June 18, 2016
Transcript
AM: This is Alan Moul and I'm here with Carl Fuehring. Carl, I’m going to ask you to spell your name.
CF: Alright. Last name is spelled F-u-e-h-r-i-n-g.
AM: And today is?
CF: The eighteenth.
AM: The eighteenth of June 2016. This is an oral history project being collected with a grant from Grand
Valley. It's called the Growing Community Project. It's about Oceana's agricultural history, growing and
migrants and the whole works. And I'm glad Carl is here today. He's going to tell us about what he
remembers and knows about his operation, his family and Mears, Michigan, and we'll go from there. So,
Carl, start us out with how you guys got here and what you remember.
CF: Alright. Well, Al, thank you very much for inviting me to this program. I think it's important for the
future generations to have an idea of where the ancestry of our county came from. My parents met and
were married in Chicago after the war, the Second World War. My mother escaped Nazi Germany and
was brought over by the underground. And my father and his parents were born here in Chicago.
Anyway, the story goes that my grandparents always wanted to be farmers, and so he weaseled and
wiggled and connived with some of the other people in downtown Chicago because he was a maître d’
at a hotel to get a piece of property in. And the first property he got was in northwestern Wisconsin and
they went up there and darn near froze to death as well as starved because it was pretty barren. So, he
came back to Chicago and complained to the realtor. The realtor says, I'll trade you sight unseen for a
piece of property on Crystal Lake in Hart Township here in Oceana County. So, by train, they moved their
belongings up, hired a team of mules as the story goes, and they dragged their meager belongings out to
a ramshackle house that was on Crystal Lake. They didn't have any farm to speak of at that time. It was a
sandy, weed-infested corner of the earth. Well, Dad - my father, Rudolf - started the farm with picking
strawberries and he had down in a wet area because he didn't have irrigation. You’ve got to realize this
is back in the ‘30s. He had strawberries and he picked strawberries and peddled them to Hart. And as
they say, that’s the rest of the story.
From then on, my father and his brother, who was in the Merchant Marines, eked out a living doing
strawberries, some cherries, some apples and some pears. My Uncle Carl was a good builder, house
builder, and so he decided that that would be a way for him and he left the farm and moved to the
Shelby / Stony Lake area. My father and mother, whose name was Margaret, proceeded then to develop
some cherry orchards. In the meantime, things were tough. And my dad, as well as a neighbor who lived
at Crystal Lake by the name of Eugene Cooney, got into cutting Christmas trees and they would go up to
the Manistee National Forest and cut the ends off the big tall trees and bring them back, hang them out
in our garage, my father's garage, and my mother would decorate them with tin foil and so forth. And I
remember as a little kid in the Willy’s Jeep taking twenty-five of these trees to Grand Rapids or
Muskegon for fifty cents apiece, selling decorated Christmas trees. So that is how Rudy and Eugene got
started in the Christmas tree business. They realized there was a market for domesticated trees, so the
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
two of them started planting Christmas trees. So now we've got cherries. They had a few apples and
Christmas trees. And that was the mainstay of the operation that started.
AM: Can I stop you really quick?
CF: Yep, please.
AM: Were they the first in the state to do the Christmas trees?
CF: Yes.
AM: OK.
CF: Those two guys were the first to start that. And Dad was the first president in the Christmas Tree
Growers Association. And it was pretty simplistic back then. Nothing as sophisticated as we have today.
Obviously, today's problem is that the artificial tree is decimating the live tree business. Well, Rudy
amassed a lot of acres, almost fifteen hundred acres at one time because it took a lot of acres for
Christmas trees. In the meantime, he also developed, as well as his neighbors, who your grandparents
and your parents did in around the Crystal Lake area. This is in Hart Township, cherries. And we started
the cherry business, I can remember as a kid harvesting them with a group called the “Braceros.” And
the government allowed these Mexicans and many of them were Indians to come in and help pick,
hardworking. And the only thing that I distinctly remember that was the fun part since I was a little kid is
we didn't have what today's worldview and I have housing for our people. They had tents, army surplus
tents, and we had a city.
AM: This would have been in the late ‘50s maybe or early ‘60s?
CF: Yeah, it would be in the ‘50s.
AM: OK.
CF: Yeah, I was pre-teen then. Yes. And I didn't know that these kids were Mexicans or Braceros or
whatever they were. We just had a good time. And from early morning to late at night, we hung out. No
shoes, a pair of shorts, short shorts, and no shirt. And we ate together and we had a good time. Things
started to change in the labor business at that time. And we got labor then from Louisiana. And I don't
know, Al, if your folks did or not, these were all Blacks coming up here. And that was the first time in my
life that I realized there were different races and we had these different races, different ethnic
backgrounds, different work abilities put in our field at the same time. An education, as you and I both
handled buckets and pails and ladders and all the things that were required back then. Plus, one picked
good branches off a tree and the other one… oh yeah, it was an education. We’ll leave it at that about.
The next part that I remember on tart cherries happened behind my father's shop and a guy by the
name of Friday, what was his first name? Dave? Powell?
AM: Down southern Michigan?
CF: Down southern Michigan, had developed a limb shaker. Well, Dr. Monger had...
AM: Was it Paul Friday?
CF: Could have been Paul Friday… sounds like it. Anyway, he had developed a mechanical means of
shaking the cherries off the trees. And the first shakers were nothing more than this mechanical arm
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
attached to a tractor and it would grab a limb and shake it violently. And they had tarps and totes or
something under a tree…
AM: Wooden boxes?
CF: Wooden boxes that they collected them in. I know Russ Robbins ran it the first year and it
completely demolished the tractor and he lost - I don't know how many - pounds of weight because this
thing just vibrated. Well, the outfit that Friday had brought up to our farm was self-propelled, which
meant that he had cobbled up a couple axles off of a Chrysler or something. And the canvas was... it was
all mounted on these - how do I put it politely - contraptions?
AM and CF: [Laughter]
AM: Were these the incline catch frames?
CF: The Friday incline… yes.
AM: OK.
CF: With the Friday Limb Shaker, the Friday Girdler. And it was a matter of about three years or four
years and everybody that had one was losing their orchards because it girdled the branches. And we
didn't know that at the time. But the thing that bothered - or not bothered, but I remember about the
whole thing - was we were harvesting cherries with this new machine right alongside the people that
were picking by hand. And I can distinctly remember seeing them in the trees, watching this go by them,
and that was the end of their way of life.
AM: Yeah.
CF: Yeah, it was kind of surprising. Today, it means more to me than it did back then.
AM: Did you ever hear of any vandalism of machines? I know I heard of a few, maybe the one year, and
then after that it was kind of all over.
CF: Yeah, and it was a sporadic thing that happened. Some of the crews were… well, that was the end of
their income, you know?
AM: Sure, sure.
CF: And that's how they picked. Today, we still have handpicked fruit and handpicked asparagus. I don't
know how much longer it's going to be with the advent now of the new minimum wage. If anybody's
done any simple math, it's humanly impossible to do a piece rate and make minimum wage. So, the next
advent after that was all of us, including your folks, we got the new trunk shaker and that was another
mechanical device. And now, matter of fact, we're back to the incline plane again. The... I don't know if
it's a better idea, but the salesman thought so. [Laughter] So we harvest the cherries. Asparagus… I
started planting asparagus when I was a teenager, single bottom plow. Martha Washington crowns
produced a good, sweet, big asparagus, but today's marketers want a standardized spear. We have most
of our acreage in asparagus, but the biggest issue we have, as well as your farm and all the other
neighbors in our neighborhood - what's going to happen harvest-wise with the labor situation? Twenty
years from now, it's going to be interesting if they even still have asparagus here in this country. So
those two and Christmas trees. The Christmas tree that we started with was the Scotch Pine, and it was
a very reasonably priced, fast-growing tree, not a lot of shipping required, but as America grew and got a
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
little more tasteful and demands, they wanted the trees sheared and that's a way of shaping a tree. And
as a youngster, I remember having a pair of huge scissors that we'd cut the tree, which took a lot of
effort. So, they had to come up with a different way. And a neighbor of ours thought that maybe a good
sharp knife would work. Well, he went and bought some butcher knives. Now, these are these five- and
ten-pound meat cleavers, will scare the bejeebers out of you!
AM: Take your leg off! [Laughter]
CF: Well, as you swung that baby, you couldn't stop it and down she'd come. We knew almost instantly
that it did a beautiful job, but it would kill somebody or cut their leg off. So, the next thing we came to
was a beef carving knife. And most of them came from Germany, had good steel, was flexible. You could
still buy the same brand a knife today. They're about fifty bucks a piece now, but that's what we shear
with. In today's world, everybody has automatic equipment and we are using, just like you do around
your house. It's like a weed whacker, except instead of a string on the end of it, we have a square metal
blade and they can very successfully shear a Pine tree. And a quarter of the time they can with a knife,
they have a better perspective because they're standing away from it. And guess what? They don't cut
their knees all to heck. [Laughter] So, anyway.
AM: Which makes OSHA happy. [Laughter]
CF: Well, God help us.
AM: We don’t want to get into that. [Laughter]
CF: We try to avoid MIOSHA or OSHA or we try to keep the guys as safe as possible and we do use leg
irons, which is a piece of tin wrapped in canvas that they carry on their leg in case they slip and whack
themselves. But I could show you twelve stitches over here that I got. So anyway, that gives a brief
overview of what our family's farm did as well as the whole neighborhood.
Why don't we just stop for a brief second here and…
Alright, we took a little break there. The next section that we talk about is how our farm evolved and got
all this work done labor-wise. When I was a youngster around the house, we had chores to do, no
livestock, but we had chores to do around the home. But the two of us, I had one brother, and it was the
deal that we could get our homework done and then we could go out and play. And God forbid, if my
grandkids do it at the age of seven and eight, we were driving a tractor, not exactly safety-approved
tractors. And all your folks and we had hand clutches, mechanical springs, a seat that was a stamped-out
piece of metal, hot, terribly hot, dirty, dusty. But guess what? It got the job done. So as a youngster, I
grew up watching other teenagers and young adults work on the farm. And when I came back from
Michigan State, I went and got my degree and I thought…
AM: In horticulture?
CF: No, I never took an Ag. [agriculture] class the whole time I was down there.
AM: OK.
CF: I really wanted to get away from it and get into something else. And I decided to go into
Administration Teaching and School Administration. So, I'll just give you a little quick synopsis on how I
got from that to farming and then I'll get back to the labor. My father died when he was ninety-three,
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
when he was in his late fifties and I was just back from Michigan State and I had a comfortable job. I was
a school administrator. We had a young family. It was Christmas. And my dad said, “What do you plan
on doing in the future?” And I said, “Well, we're teaching and I've got a good career there.” And he says,
“I'd like to retire.” He says, “Why don't you come back and work for me a couple of years?” Well, I was
mid-twenties and he lived another forty years and I still work him. [Laughter]
AM: [Laughter]
CF: I don't know if he ever thought that he was supposed to retire in there. That generation of my dad
and Burmeisters and Brandles and the Trommaters and the O'Reilley; once they were in it, they farmed
until they died.
Well, the other story on labor might be a little more interesting: is since I was young, energetic, I knew a
lot of other young people in the area and most of them were about ten, twelve years younger than I
was. But they needed jobs. Back in those days, there wasn't that many McDonald's or city jobs that we
had around here, and most of the kids wanted to earn something that would give them some money, as
well as that they would be able to see the practical purpose, because that was about the only industry
we had in the area was Ag. related. So, we had over a period of time and I looked back on this between
two and three hundred teenagers, and I've got their names and all the hours they were…
AM: The old check stubs?
CF: The old check stubs... that worked for us and these guys would come out after school, just like you
did with your family. There was about eight of them that I can remember very distinctly, and we would
pick - from three thirty until dark, if had to - asparagus fields. Twenty-five… never give it a blink. If I
asked my grandson today to go pick asparagus, he's not a laborer. He just drives equipment, so. But we
did everything: we planted the asparagus, we planted Christmas trees. This mechanical device, the
shaker that we had, we shook the trees with that. We thought we were pretty hot stuff. It was a team
effort. I don't know, Al, how many you had, but in our group with one roll out, we were, I think, about
eight or ten guys and we ended up putting mattresses in the barn because we would start at five, fivethirty. And for them, most of them didn't have a driver's license. So, they, at night, the folks would take
them home or somebody would take them home. They would shower and eat. And pretty soon they
would all wander back and dead tired. So, we'd sleep there and I'd go down and wake them up. About
seven, seven thirty, my wife would have amassed a huge breakfast and everybody ate; it didn't matter
what you had, you ate. And then we worked the full day, maybe nine o'clock at night and started it all
over. Did this for three weeks straight. But everything, Christmas trees, were all harvested with these
young guys. Your neighbor, Mark, he worked; Rich De Ridder. [?]
AM: If I remember right, you developed a real sense of camaraderie doing it, too. I mean, the guys were
kind of like a team.
CF: It was; it was a team. And I know that my son and his friend, Tim Tubbs, nobody could beat the
Tubbs. That was just the way it was. Well, there was several days there that one summer that we were
getting a hundred tanks in eight hours. And Dwight would go right over and tell him Tim, you know, yeah
talk about… [laughter].
AM: Now, we’ve got to get a hundred and one, right?
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
CF: You guys are slackers. [Laughter] But everything was done until about, I would say, two thousand
five or six. And pretty soon there just wasn't any high school kids. Not that they weren't available. It's
just there was other jobs opened up. We have this huge resort area here. Why do you want to go out
and drag a tarp when you can stand out at a concession stand with cute little girls and air conditioning
and pop; it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. [Laughter]
AM: [Laughter] That's genetics, man.
AM and CF: [Laughter]
CF: Yeah, well, that's why we only have Hispanics working on our farm. And I would dare say that the
younger generation is really missing out on the training. I have had… two years ago, I had the example,
we went to a family wedding and this young man came up to me, now he's pushing fifty? And he said,
“Mr. Fuehring” and I looked at him, I says, “What do you mean, Mr. Fuehring? That's my dad.” Well, he
said, “You don't remember me, I'm Kurt.” I says, “Okay, it's been a while.” Well, he’d moved to California
and he said he just couldn't handle it, staying home here anymore. There was really no jobs for him. So,
he went to California and his first day out there, he got a job as a laborer digging a trench for
underground gas lines. And he said, “I started that early morning and by noon I was in charge of the
crew.” And he said, “Two weeks later, I was a foreman on that crew.” And today he's got several of
these units that he directs. And he brought his son here from California who was a teenager, just like he
was when he worked for me. And he says, “I want you to meet the guy that showed me how to work.”
And Al, you know, this is a fact. You've got many relations and many friends and you worked all different
kinds of businesses. These young men and women, anywhere they went they were successful because
they worked on these farms. They knew how if something had fallen down or broken or tripped or...
grab it, fix it, do it. Don't stand there. I feel, like I said, kind of sorry for the next generation. They have
no incentive, so grab a kid and put them to work. [Laughter]
AM: Yeah, exactly.
CF: …if they could. I’ve got to tell you a little short story here. I'm starting to bore everybody. I had a
neighbor, Mike Fenton, great kid, strong as an ox, and the guy could do anything. Well, he had two
friends. One of them now works for the United States government in some military capacity, and the
other one works here in the state. And they were both very, very sharp young men in computers. Well, I
hollered at the two of them in the shop one day to change the tire on a baler. This is an outfit that wraps
Christmas trees. And a few minutes later, I came out of the office and here they are on their hands and
knees, laying alongside this thing, looking at this machine. Well, Mike came walking in. And I said, Mikey,
show those two Einsteins how to change a tire. You know, they could write a computer program. So,
Mike showed the boys how it's a simple thing, changing a tire, you know.
AM: They wanted to redesign the tire...
CF: Redesign, reinvent the wheel - you bet.
CF: Well, what we've got a tangent on here is old versus... ways and new ways of horticultural practices.
And what we had talking about briefly with the microphone off was what varieties are coming up in like
Christmas trees or fruit and so forth, and the costs, different costs of putting them in. We'll start with
the last one that Al and I were talking about, Christmas trees. In today's world, it's very difficult to sell
fresh Christmas trees. The costs have increased because our input costs have increased. But the
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
American public is extremely fussy and they're not tolerant of new ways in trees. One of them is that
they want the newest, the best, the fanciest, the cutest. And that would be the Fraser fir, which was
developed in North Carolina to try and compete with our Douglas fir. We have two varieties of the
Douglas fir: the regular [?] and then the white Concolor fir and we can grow them around here, but they
require a huge amount of hand labor. Now, the Concolor fir, Noble fir in Europe, they - the public in
Europe, Germany, France and so forth - do not have a tree, a sheared tree, it's a wild tree. And I've seen
this several times. I was taking lots of pictures when I was over there trying to show my customers they
don't need to shear them. They have a very natural tree. Here in the United States, there's a few
markets that people will sell us out of a thousand trees, maybe ten or twelve naturals, but they've got to
have this cone shape. To get a tree started today in the ground, anywhere from 15 cents to 50 cents to
plant it. And then on a Douglas fir, you've probably got ten or twelve years before you could even
harvest. In that time, you've got shearing, you've got to keep the bugs away, you've got fertilizer. It's
very expensive. And the return is diminished because the popularity of live tree. We're going through a
change here; we've got to have the artificial tree and they are gorgeous. And you've got to realize both
spouses are working. They leave the house in the morning. If they have children, those are gone.
Nobody's there to water the tree. When they come home at night, they have to prepare a meal. And if
they then had to go pick up pine needles or water a tree, pretty soon this is just way too much work and
there's a lot of allergies with them. So, I'm not trying to not sell Christmas trees, but it's a fact of life.
Now, back to what you and I do the best is planting fruit trees. And we were looking at a picture here
that's going to be in this that his grandfather had when I first started and I'm not as old as his
grandfather was when this picture was drawn. We would measure... physically measure out an orchard
and plot it and steak. If we had a thousand trees, we had a thousand stakes in that orchard where every
tree went. And then they would, originally, with these high school kids, I went out and the first job we
would do and it would take a week to do it on that one block by my house, is we physically dug the
holes. We didn't have a mechanical auger. That was a big invention or improvement, I should say, as
we'd go out and dig those. Today...
AM: Until you hit a rock.
CF: Until you hit rock and then you had to dig everything out. Yeah, and then what are you going to do
because this rock is huge and that's where a tree's supposed to be. In today's world, you pick out where
you want your first row at the distance apart from each other. And I don't know how to do it, my
grandson does. You program this into this computer and the tractor drives a straight row. We can plant
four thousand trees in eight hours easy. And I think they're in better than the other way. Varieties, now
you get into the fun, you want them blue, green, yellow, white, every apple. How many would you guess
varieties you could have? A couple of hundred?
AM: Easy.
CF: Yeah. With all the different rootstocks. It's the same with cherries; not so many, but we've got
choices of rootstocks. You got an investment, I'm going to throw some numbers out, you tell me how far
off I am. On a regular tart cherry, in today's world, by the time I get it in the ground and this is a five
eighths inch diameter tree with a wrap on it. I've got ten bucks into that tree. Is that about right?
AM: I would say.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
CF: Alright, now the good stuff starts. [Laughter] You’ve got to - and I haven't until I saw the results that
my neighbor was doing - you’ve got to put irrigation in. The mechanical part of irrigation is a dollar a
tree. If you couldn't get away with it. What really kicked me down was it had to be done, but I guess the
way I did it was kind of dumb, is I told the guy to drill a well and I got the bill after it was in. [Laughter]
Oh, mercy. This is not my grandfather's two inch well. [Laughter] Yeah, very high tech. So, you've got
another thirty, forty thousand dollars. Now on these high-density apples that your neighbor and my
neighbor has put in, you can have twenty-five, thirty thousand dollars I think in an acre of just the trees.
Then you've got the irrigation, the trellis, deer fence. I think [?] block out here, I think that fifteen acres
was almost four hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
AM: Those are the...
CF: SweeTangos.
AM: SweeTangos.
CF: Yeah.
AM: You know…
CF: That’s a lot of [?].
AM: Well, and that's a big, big risk. And we've seen it go south and there goes your... well, it takes the
money away from other stuff that's making money and pretty soon you’re…
CF: Yeah, and we haven't talked about the tractor, the special little tractor, because you can't have a
regular size orchard tractor, you've got to get one of those. And that with a cab is about what, sixty-four
thousand, if I remember right. The sprayer... Mark just got a PTO sprayer to fit down that and that's
thirty-five thousand. The engine drive, the same thing is seventy-two grand. And we haven't got an
apple one yet. Yeah.
AM: I used to get a kick out of the neighbors who weren't in farming, many of them were then, but now
they see your truck go around the corner with fourteen tanks of cherries and they've seen the paper and
it says they’re thirty-five cents a pound this year and they know there’s a thousand pounds in the tank
and they think, man alive, there goes fifteen grand of cherries.
CF: You rich farmers. Yeah. That's all. And they've got this all figured out before you even talk with them
how much you've made on this thing. But they have no concept of the eight years that that cherry tree
is in the ground before you can shake one cherry. Every year it's got to get fed fertilizer. It's got to get
pruned. It's got to be sprayed. That's what we're just finishing now.
AM: What would you tell somebody that wants to get into farming? A young person that maybe is a
sharp business person, hardworking, but thinks they want to farm. What would you tell them? Could
you even do it or what would you tell them?
CF: Marry the boss's daughter. [Laughter] Well, you know, that's a very legitimate good question. And it
would be very pertinent to this thing that's going on today. First off, I don't believe if this person were...
let's start over. If this person was not connected, family-wise or marriage-wise, to somebody in an
existing farm, the chances of that person getting into or succeeding would be zero or less. The
purchasing of the property, first of all, is one or renting or leasing it; if it was profitable, that farm, the
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
payments, depending upon the year, you probably couldn't make payments just off of that farm, you
have to have some other collateral. Equipment, I'm going to say something, Alan, you throw your sense
in there. Without being a spendthrift and having to buy all brand-new stuff, just to go in and get stuff
that's operating and not junk. I don't know if you could do it for under a million dollars. Tractor,
sprayer...a cab tractor today and a sprayer engine drive is a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Mower twenty thousand. The trucks, the wells, everything.
AM: The harvester that sits there eleven months out of the year.
CF: Yeah. [Laughter] That's kind of discouraging to the young person. They had a program and I don't
know if Michigan State still has it or not. But they used to have a program for that person that was not a
son or grandson or had an uncle or something, that they would team up with elderly or older farmers
that would like to retire but don't have any way of transitioning this farm. This is what, Fred, how Fred
got started with the farmer north of Hart, because he was from Hart. He didn't have anything to do with
farming.
AM: Fred Tubbs?
CF: Fred Tubbs.
AM: Really.
CF: And he - and I don't know the farmer's name - he was well known and he befriended Fred. And Fred
was a very strong, willing guy and he was a quick learner. But…
AM: I think more of this is going to have to happen. I talked to Brad, who's connected with going out
and procuring fruit. And one of the questions that was given to him was ask the growers how they are
going to pass down their farms and who's even interested in farming coming up. And I think he told me
almost 50 percent have no one coming up or to transfer to. What's going to happen? Big concern here.
CF: Yeah, there’s two avenues for these farmers: sell out to a neighbor and that guy gets bigger and
bigger, bigger, which is what my neighbor is doing. He's got three sons, I guess, and they've tripled in
size. A normal man, that was a one-horse operation. Yeah, you have basically two choices: either sell out
to somebody or have somebody come in that you could work with. It's a huge undertaking on both parts
because the older man, that's his retirement. And if the young farmer can have a successful operation
and give him some payments, but if you have a bad year or let's say the guy is - how do I put this nicely?
He's not attentive to what he's doing and he blows a crop. Now they're both out and this elderly man
would have a huge financial risk at hand. Yeah, it would be very tough. I don't know if the other
interviewees would be given that question, but I think that would be interesting to see what other kind
of answers you get.
AM: Yeah. What do you think about the - this is shifting gears here - the quality of the land itself? Now,
I've seen a lot of pictures in the past. The trees were bigger. Are we depleting our soil or do you think
we're doing a pretty good job of being a husband and, you know, of keeping it… passing along in good
shape?
CF: Most of the young commercial farmers, I think, are extremely attentive to what they're doing. There
are a few farms in the area within a few miles that lack the husbandry; they just haven't fertilized, they
are depleting it. Yeah, you can drive by and the leaves are going, yeah. Yes, there is problems on certain
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
things. Most, in today's world with the pressure of watching out for what's going on. I have this
asparagus tour to think about and they come up and that is just about the second or third question
every time. What are you doing to the soil? Are you putting on pesticides? What kind of fertilizers are
using? What are you doing for safety? Fifteen years ago, nobody would have even thought about it. But
in today's world, if you as a farmer aren't paying attention to what you have, boy, you're in deep
trouble. I don't see how you can't.
AM: It's almost difficult to get loans and get financing if you're not doing good practices, too, isn't it? I
mean, they’ve pretty well got you locked in now.
CF: Oh, yeah. I just keep telling the guy from the bank any time he wants to come out, I got a cushion for
him to sit on the picker. [Laughter]
AM: [Laughter] Well, I'll speak just for real briefly. We'll wrap this up.
CF: Alright, Sir.
AM: What do you think in general about farming life? You know, there's a lot of different ways to be
raised, to be brought up. I've got my own feeling on it. But what do you think about the rural life and
being brought up on a farm? What's it done for you? And what do you… what are the strengths to it?
CF: Well, that's about a six-hour discussion. [Laughter] You know, at my age, and I'm a tad older than
you are.
AM: Tell me how old you are.
CF: I'm seventy-three.
AM: OK.
CF: And I have had a good life, I've had the opportunity to live in the city, I've had an opportunity to
work in a city, I had the free choice to make decisions, what I wanted to do. I am very thankful at the life
that I have had and that I have chosen. You're, no matter what, you're always envious of some friends
that have done something different. And I wished that I would have had the opportunity to do some
other things, not different careers, but just some other opportunities. But just like you, Al, we picked
and choosed and we did and stuck with it. For me and my personal lifestyle, I really enjoy the rural area,
but it is a lifestyle. You have to realize that when there has to be something done, you do it. And if
there's a party in Muskegon or somewhere else and you have to get a spray on, that's just tough. I don't
know if the younger generation realizes that because everything we do, we see the direct results.
AM: You’ve got skin in the game,
CF: You got skin in the game. The mentality of the rural people - and I deal with this all the time because
I'm on a township board - a lot more common sense, down to earth, and I think they are closely related
to what God gives you, God can take away and we’ve got to watch what we've got. They don't fritter
away life's things; they enjoy it. It's just, my wife and I were discussing the other day the lightning storm
that came in. We turned all the lights off and we sat for an hour and a half watching the lightning storm.
I have some other friends that we talked to and my God, they were just having a canary because of this
lightning and they couldn't go out and the TV wasn't working. And I'm thinking, you know, that's one of
the pleasures that you have going out on the patio and just no TV, no radio, just listening to it rain. Now,
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
maybe I'm committable. I don't know, probably depending on who you're talking to, but those are
pleasures that you get from appreciating the lifestyle...
AM: Yep.
CF: ...we’re in and where we are.
AM: We're blessed.
CF: We sure are. Well, Al, I really want to thank you for stopping by the other day and inviting me. This
has been a pleasure.
AM: Thank you, for sharing. I think future generations are going to enjoy listening to this and shaking
their heads and laughing at the old guys anyway. [Laughter]
CF: [Laughter] Well, you're not old, but it's always been a pleasure talking with you.
AM: Okay, this is Al Moul. I don't know if I even said that in the beginning of doing the interview. And
this is my neighbor, Carl Fuehring, and I appreciate him coming in. So, thanks, Carl.
CF: Thank you.
11
�
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4b572b97806912d780f8216d02d73985.mp3
395e70734a0c2fbd0834fe0536331aac
Dublin Core
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Oceana County Migrant Labor History Collection
Creator
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Shell-Weiss, Melanie
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Growing Community: A Century of Migration in Oceana County." This project was a collaboration between El Centro Hispano de Oceana, the Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society, and Grand Valley State University funded by a Common Heritage grant from the United States National Endowment for the Humanities. The materials in this collection document the history of communities in Hart, Shelby, and Walkerville and explore themes of migration, labor, religion, family, belonging, national and cultural identities, regional, national, and international connections, and citizenship.
Coverage
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Oceana County (Mich.)
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Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
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Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives
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El Centro Hispano de Oceana; Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society
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Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage project)
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DC-06
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application/pdf
image/jpeg
audio/mp3
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Text
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eng
spa
Date
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2016
Subject
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Oceana County (Mich.)
Hart (Mich.)
Shelby (Mich.)
Farms
Farmers
Migrant agricultural laborers
Hispanic Americans
Account books
Diaries
Oral history
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
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DC-06_Fuehring_Carl
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Fuehring, Carl
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2016-06-18
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Fuehring, Carl (audio interview and transcript)
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An account of the resource
Oral history interview with Carl Fuehring. Interviewed by Alan Moul on June 18, 2016 in Hart, Michigan. English language. Carl Fuehring was born into a fruit and Christmas tree growing family in the Crystal Lake area of Hart, Michigan. He spent his youth helping around the farm and later went on to study Administration Teaching and School Administration at Michigan State University.
Contributor
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Moul, Alan (interviewer)
Subject
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Oceana County (Mich.)
Hart (Mich.)
Farms
Farmers
Fruit growers
Christmas tree growing
Michigan State University
Audio recordings
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Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage)
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
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Sound
Text
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audio/mp3
application/pdf
Language
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eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/89178933013f4019c6fdb8ff257d0b69.pdf
cb5031c1aa558df4d19712edcad28135
PDF Text
Text
Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
Larry Byl Interview
Interviewed by Walter Urick
June 18, 2016
Transcript
WU: My name is Walter Urick, and I'm here today with Larry Byl. We're at the Hart Area Library in Hart,
Michigan. The date is Saturday, June 18th, 2016. And the purpose for this meeting is to obtain the oral
history of the Byl family. The oral history’s being collected as part of the Growing Community Project,
which is supported in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities Common
Heritage Program.
Larry, I just want to thank you for taking this time to talk to me today. I'm interested to learn more
about your family history and your experiences living and working in Oceana County. Now, your full legal
name is what, Larry?
LB: Walter Lawrence Wesley Byl.
WU: And your date of birth and place of birth?
LB: Date of birth is March 7th, 1957. And the location was Grand Rapids, Michigan.
WU: Now, do you have any siblings?
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
LB: I have three brothers and one sister.
WU: Would you name each one for me?
LB: Sure. The oldest was Margaret, followed by Paul, me, brother John, and then Tom.
WU: And let's talk about your parents for a few minutes. Your father's name?
LB: My father's name is Peter Byl. No middle initial or no middle name. And my mom was [?] Byl
WU: And her maiden name?
LB: Her name. Her maiden name was Westers.
WU: Tracing the background of your parents and may get you to your grandparents…
LB: Yep.
WU: Sort of describe, as best you can, how your family eventually ended up in Oceana County and
where did we start?
LB: Sure.
WU: In the Netherlands or some other part of the world?
LB: Sure. I'm going to go way back because I think you might find it interesting on my mother's side, if
you go back far enough, back when Napoleon was the ruler in France, they conscripted soldiers,
including a fellow from Algeria, which would have been a great-great-grandfather of mine. And he, I'm
going to say, abandoned… he didn't see eye to eye with Napoleon, so he deserted them, Poland's army,
before Waterloo and went to Holland because the Netherlands was one location that accepted people
regardless of race and religion. While his name, they couldn't pronounce it, so they called him France,
which is French [?], which means outcast. So, my grandmother's maiden name was [?]. And so I come
from a varied background. He obviously fell in love with a Dutch woman and they got married. And my
dad's family came from the northern part of the Netherlands called Friesland. And in Friesland, they're
known as either farmers, predominantly dairy farmers, because there's a lot of grass there or they were
known as a fisherman. So, my dad's family came and they're also known as being hardheaded. So, my
mom and dad actually didn't meet until 1948 in a boat coming from the Netherlands to the United
States. And I'm going to give you a tiny bit of background to that. My dad's family was farmers and my
mom's family... my grandfather was a Christian school principal and he moved around to several
different schools. Well, you have to understand, during World War II, Germany occupied the
Netherlands for about five years. So, my parents were both in their early teens during the war, which
would have been a horrible time. And so, they both knew what it was like to live under martial law. And
also, they knew what it was like to not have food all of the time. My parents, my grandparents, this
would be my dad's mom and dad, their farmhouse on January 1, 1945 was accidentally bombed by the
allies. What would happen is the Canadians and the Americans and the British would fly into Germany
and if they had any bombs left over, they would look for opportunities to let those bombs go. And it just
so happened, my grandparents lived fairly close to a railroad track. So, they let the bombs go and they
missed the railroad tracks and accidentally hit my dad's house. So, for six months to a year, they had to
live with another family. They were able to salvage the bricks and rebuild a smaller house like the typical
Dutch. But you have to understand, they had nothing. I mean, they had two cows, I think, at the time of
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
the war. And the night that their house was bombed, one of the cows was killed and taken away. So,
but, I never heard my grandparents complain. But in 1948, they had an opportunity. A man by the name
of George Welch, who was the mayor of Grand Rapids, was visiting the Netherlands. And he was doing
that because he was, I believe, the president of the United States Mayors Association. And he was
looking at the rebuilding of Europe at that time. And one of his business partners was a lady by the
name of Margaret de Groot. George Welch and Margaret de Groot owned a newspaper in Grand Rapids
and she owned a farm just east of Grand Rapids in the Rockford/ Lowell area, and she was in need of
some crop farmers to share... to work that farm and share the crops with her. So, my dad's family, when
they met George Welch, they set up an interview and within three or four weeks, they went through all
of the process. And because their house had been bombed by the Americans, they were put on a fast
track to come to America. Well, my mom had just finished college in the Netherlands and she came to
the United States to spend six months with some of her [?] family members who were...
WU: Can you spell that name?
LB: No, I cannot.
WU: All right. I know the recorder/ transcriber is going to have difficulty with that, but continue on.
LB: It starts with [?].
WU: [Laughter]
LB: And they... she went to Chicago to stay with some cousins for six months because she really had a
traveling bug. So, she had finished her college and she met my dad's family on the boat. So that's how
my mom and dad met.
WU: Was your dad on that boat, too?
LB: My dad actually had flown to America just before the rest of the family because my dad had an
invitation to join the Dutch army and fight in Indonesia, which was seeking independence. And they said
if you leave now, you do not have to join the Dutch army and fight in the jungles of Indonesia. So, my
dad was already over at the... what we call the Marcadia Farm, and that would be the farm located at
992 6 Mile Road, Rockford, Michigan. And that's where my mom met my dad because my mom enjoyed
my dad's family. And when she went to Chicago, they said, well, gosh, you're close enough. Why don't
you spend a month over there? Because she always enjoyed rural living. And this got her out of Chicago
for a month. Well, she fell in love with my dad, but what happened then was she had to go back to the
Netherlands because she applied for a permanent visa and they said that there's a quota. We only allow
so many Dutchmen in the United States at any one time. So, she had to go back to the Netherlands for
two years. She did and just about the time her two years was over, my dad, this would be 1950, had an
invitation to join the U.S. Army and fight in Korea. So, my dad was in the U.S. Army, but instead of being
stationed in Korea, he was stationed in Germany because he knew German, Dutch, English, and he was a
medic there in Germany with the U.S. Army. So needless to say, my mom then came to America and she
actually worked with my grandparents on the farm at Rockford for two years until my dad got out of the
army. So, they got married and within the next seven years had five children.
WU: Now, the farm in Rockford, as best you know, what type of crops or what kind of farming activities
were involved that your dad apparently had to participate in or...
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
LB: My grandfather and father were both dairy farmers from the time they were little. This was... we
considered it a huge dairy farm. There were between 30 and 32 cows that they milked. And it was a
pretty modern farm with all of the tractors and they raised most of their own crops. And it was a
wonderful place to live.
My mom, on the other hand, hated the idea of being tied down twenty-four hours a day, seven days a
week. My mom loved to travel and explore, so she convinced my dad because my dad took over that
farm when my grandparents, after working the farm for five years, had saved enough money to buy
their own farm. She convinced my dad to let her go back to college with five little kids at home and she
went to Calvin College because that was very close and also because they could read the Dutch
transcripts from her college days in the Netherlands. So, they gave her about two years credit and over
the course of the next five or six years, she got her teaching degree from Calvin College. And in about
1966, they purchased an eighty-acre fruit farm in the western end of Oceana County.
WU: How did it happen that they got to Oceana? Was there a story behind that or is it just they found it
somehow?
LB: Now, how did they find… did they run out of gas as they were heading up north? I think it came
down to they asked friends from their church. Many of the Dutch, especially the Dutch, they came to
America, go to either... either went or currently attend Reformed and Christian Reformed churches. And
that's been the case from about 1860 on. And so, I'm sure my parents were talking with other friends in
church and they were put in touch with some friends in New Era Reformed Church. And one of the first
area farmers that they met was Gord Vanderslice’s parents. And there was a farm for sale. There were
several. One was in Ferry Township and one was in Benona Township. The one in Benona was owned by
an estate of Pete Burmeister and they looked that over. They asked Mr. Vanderslice to look it over and
he said, wow, a lot of blow sand and it's not the most productive, but it was pretty. There were a lot of
old apple trees. My parents didn't realize the old apple trees weren't necessarily an asset, but it had
peaches and sweet cherries and they could see a future. And more importantly, my mom could see that
she wouldn't be tied down to the farm seven days a week.
WU: Did away from the cow situation.
LB: The cows, where you had to milk twice a day every day. And so, my parents, I told Mrs. de Groot
they had purchased their own farm. So, there actually was an auction sale and the equipment on the
other farm was sold and the cattle were sold. Other than my dad could not get away from cattle
altogether. So, when they moved to Oceana County, my dad brought one cow with him. Now you'd have
to realize how much milk one cow produces. Even with five kids and with cousins staying with us most of
the summer, that cow was producing so much milk that my dad would make buttermilk. Well, you make
buttermilk by taking sour milk and churning it. That was a lot of work. My dad, actually, and mom had an
extra washing machine, so they used that extra washing machine to churn the sour milk and turn it into
buttermilk. And then there's a dish. It's called [?]. And I'm sorry, Walter, I can't spell that either. But [?] is
a Dutch buttermilk pudding. And I just remember when I was ten years old having [?] for breakfast,
lunch and supper. And to this day, I can't stand it. And so, that's how my parents got started here. And
within the following two years, between 1966 and ‘68, they purchased another hundred acres of
agricultural land from a neighbor by the name of Leo Dzur, D-Z-U-R, and Leo was an immigrant from
Germany, and he had two daughters who had both moved out of the area and it was time for him to
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
give up farming. So, that's how my parents got really started. And my mom, true to her word, started
teaching that fall the year that we moved here.
WU: Where did your mom teach?
LB: My mom taught in Ferry’s school for the first two years and then moved to Shelby’s school, where
she taught for seventeen more years.
WU: Did she teach actually at Shelby or out at Benona or?
LB: She taught right at Shelby itself.
WU: And what...
LB: Fourth and fifth grade.
WU: So, she was the fourth and fifth grade teacher.
LB: Yes.
WU: That's quite a story. So now, let's see, you had an eighty-acre farm and a one-hundred-acre farm.
LB: Yes.
WU: So now your dad is in charge of one hundred and eighty acres, correct? Did that... all I want to do is
briefly trace the farming experience of your father before we go further. Did he acquire more land or
was one hundred and eighty acres basically his farm?
LB: My dad was able to, over the next ten years, acquire another forty acres at the end of Shelby Road
and Scenic Drive and another 40 on Woodrow Road next to the Dzur farm. And that was pretty much it
until my oldest brother, like a lot of farms, the oldest son stayed on the farm and farmed with their
father. My brother Paul went to Michigan State University for a two-year Ag. degree, and when he took
over then fifty percent ownership, they acquired some additional land after that because obviously
farming became even more mechanized as more modern sprayers, faster tractors and things like that.
WU: OK, so basically, he had probably over three hundred acres that they actually owned.
LB: Yes, by 1975 he had three hundred acres that they owned.
WU: So, he had about three hundred acres they actually owned. I don't know if he went out and leased
property?
LB: He did not.
WU: Okay, so what I'd like you to describe is the type of farming activities that were involved in this
three-hundred-acres. I'm not sure if it was asparagus, cherries or the whole nine yards. You sort of
describe it.
LB: Yep. And, Walter, if it's okay, I might describe a little bit, too, us boys, the Byl boys, because there
were four of us, from time to time, we could work for a neighbor by the name of Vernon Bull, who was
one of the pioneer food processing and growers from Casnovia, who bought a second operation in
Oceana County next door to my dad. And over the course of thirty years, when my dad would try and
buy a farm, invariably Vernon would be there and once in a while they'd have to flip a coin to see who
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
could buy it or try to outbid each other. It was a relationship that was OK, but I'm sure there were times
when it wasn't the best. But Vernon was able to hire us, along with a number of other young men in
Oceana County for both horticulture purposes and for cherry processing. He had one of the first cherry
processing plants along the lakeshore. And I remember asking Vernon why he wanted to get into the
food processing business when just raising crops was a full-time job. Vernon explained to me in his
particular case, he was largely along Lake Michigan, which meant that he was about a week later than
the cherry crops closer to Hart and Shelby. Typically, along the lake, it's a little bit cooler and that holds
back the fruit in the springtime and then the summer. It might be eighty degrees in town, but it'll be
seventy degrees close to Lake Michigan. What Vernon had a problem with since he was on the tail-end
of the production, if he brought his cherries in at that time to either Hart or Shelby, but if the processing
plant had fulfilled their contract, they were no longer interested in processing more fruit. So, by Vernon
having his own food processing/ cherry processing plant, he felt he could then market the processed
fruit. He ended up building freezer plants to go along with the food processing plant so that he could
store it. So, my dad was able to take advantage of that from time to time, as well, because that's the one
thing we found out. You really want to have multiple food processors as opposed to being so reliant on
only a single food processor. And basically, you're at their mercy.
WU: Well, I'm going to want to talk to you more in detail about your youth and working for Vernon Bull.
But before we get there, I want you to describe as best you can your father and maybe your brother’s
farming operation at its peak. What are you producing or growing? And approximately how many acres,
if you know.
LB: Yeah, my father, when he first started in Oceana County, he had to learn everything. I mean,
everything from the standpoint of what we call stone fruit here, peaches and cherries. He was used to
corn and hay and cattle. There's a difference, but it's not all that great. And, you know, we had a
wonderful neighbor with Vernon Ball. One of his employees helped us if my dad had questions. And of
course, the chemical dealers were always happy to help you and sell product. My dad's main crops the
first few years, when we bought the farm, there were probably twenty acres of apple trees with
probably twenty-five different varieties. You had varieties called “Snows.” You had “Kings,” you had
apples that we would call them today, vintage varieties. And like the snow apple, for instance, would be
a lot like a Macintosh. But when you bite into it, it's really white on the inside. And that apple’s specialty
was as a caramel apple because once you had caramel and you bite into it, it was really wonderful to see
that white.
Now, Pete Burmeister, when he had all of these trees planted, had his own little packing plant and
would bring apples to various vendors. Well, my dad didn't have the patience to learn about all of the
varieties. And at that time, cherries were becoming a bigger and bigger thing because cherries in about
1966, when we moved here to Oceana County, you really started seeing more Shaker's. Now, what the
shaker did was it took away your need to have hundreds of pickers to harvest the cherries. So, my dad
planted a lot of cherries. We had probably fifteen acres of peaches, largely Clingstone. A Freestone
peach would be the type of peach that you would sell in the store. A Kingstone peach, we used to sell to
Gerber's and that was used for food processing.
My dad also, on the whole, Leo Desoer farm, the one hundred acres, he ended up planting asparagus
when he bought that, it was open and old cherries. Over the course of about six or seven years, he
removed the old cherries and we planted all of that into asparagus. My dad was probably one of the
larger asparagus growers in the early ‘70s.
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
WU: So, cherries... peaches, and asparagus…
LB: …peaches and asparagus. And really moved away from apples completely until maybe ten years ago.
WU: Well, now I want to take you back to your boyhood days and give an idea, first, what it was like
growing up and what kind of farm chores, if any, you had to participate in. First, maybe at home and
then maybe Bull Orchard?
LB: At home, when we moved to Oceana County, the biggest job was, of course, harvesting of the fruit.
And we were not large enough to own a cherry shaker. So, all of our cherries were harvested by hand,
starting with about three to four acres of sweet cherries, which doesn't sound like very much today. But
that job kept us busy for probably two weeks and then we moved to the sour cherries. Then, of course,
just before that was thinning the peaches and then the harvesting of the peaches. And by that time, we
were just so happy to have school started. We were... most of us were happy to get off the farm and
back to the school.
WU: So, basically what you're saying is you're one of the harvesters.
LB: Yeah.
WU: And this is at an age of ten or eight?
LB: Yep.
WU: As you get into your early teens, did your father have to hire harvesters outside of family and
neighbors and so forth?
LB: Because my mother's family, she has four siblings and they all moved to the Grand Rapids area. And I
have probably twenty-five cousins, about the same age as our family, little younger. And most of those
cousins in the summertime spent two or three weeks helping harvest.
WU: So, this was a family - extended family - effort.
LB: It was very much an extended family effort. We, at that time, we saw quite a few migrants, including
some blacks that maybe came up from Chicago, but our farm did not employ it. It's not that we wouldn't
have, but we had enough family members where we were able to harvest with our family.
WU: Do you have any vivid memories, good or bad, of when you were a kid working on the farm, that
you would care to make part of our interview here?
LB: Sure. One of our cousins would not like me sharing this, but I had a cousin by the name of Peter
Westers and he was one of the youngest cousins. He was two. Now, these were the days when you had
the whole family out in the orchard. My aunt, typically my aunt and all of the kids, several aunts. And
Peter was two and he was very fond of eating cherries. The problem was he would eat cherries, pits and
all and he was still in a diaper. And about ten or eleven o'clock in the day, he would start crying because
as he was sitting, those cherry pits would become very uncomfortable. So, we always used to tease
Peter about that.
Another memory that I have was our first year here in 1966, Vernon Ball had purchased some existing
orchards in close proximity and those orchards were being transitioned - this was a cherry orchard - to
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
mechanically harvesting. So, what you had was, we call it a double incline shaker, with a little limb
shaker - didn't shake the whole tree, just the little limb. But in order to get the tarps underneath the
trees, you had to cut the lower branches. Well, before they cut the lower branches, they asked all of the
neighbors if we would go and, for fifty cents a bucket, pick the lowest limbs. Well at fifty cents a bucket,
I remember one day as a ten-year-old picking like twenty-five buckets and earning an ungodly amount of
money, at least from my perspective, and my mom keeping all of us in toll and which was a whole lot
nicer than picking my dad's orchards, which required a ladder and to reach all the way to the top.
WU: Well, I'm going to switch subjects and go on to your educational background. Starting in
elementary, I’m not sure if you ended up in the village of Shelby or if you were out in the Benona
schools. I assume it was the latter, but…
LB: Yep, I am fortunate. I say fortunate in that for my first three years of school, I actually went to a tiny
one room schoolhouse. This was back near Lowell... Talbot. And we had around eighteen students and
four of those eighteen were Byl kids. And I tell my children and now grandchildren that I can still name
all of my classmates in first, second and third grade, both of them. So, when we moved in 1966, we went
to Benona school, which had around twenty kids per class and some classes had two grades, most had
one grade, and that went through eighth grade. And some of my fondest memories there were you
didn't have to try out for the basketball team, you automatically made it. And we had the most fun on
Wednesday nights playing against New Era, New Era Christian, Weare, Golden. We didn't play against
the big schools of Shelby and Hart, but we played at the State Street gym here in Hart and gosh, I was
just very... those are fond memories for me.
WU: Any teachers in your elementary years that stand out in your mind that maybe helped mold you or
mentor you in any way?
LB: I had very decent teachers in Benona. Probably the best English teacher I had was a lady who... Mrs.
Hammond. And she was one of those individuals who was very frank with you. And this is in seventh and
eighth grade. She taught English and spelling and some of the others, but she hated math. So, she and
Dennis Tucker traded places for those classes. And I remember her giving me a dictionary, which I still
have. And she said, “Larry, you're smart, but you can't spell worth a damn. I want you to look up your
words whenever you have a question so that you don't get it wrong.” And that was probably a very good
thing in the seventh or eighth grader to have a teacher be that honest. And I still have that little
dictionary.
WU: So Benona schools took you through the eighth grade. Is that what you're telling me?
LB: Yes.
WU: Okay, so you finished the eighth grade and where did you go from there for high school?
LB: From there I went to Shelby High School with a class of about one hundred and ten kids and I took
your normal classes, except I did take various what I call FFA - Future Farmers of America - classes.
Shelby had... Hart had a very good auto mechanic class where some of my friends went to Hart for two
hours a day for that with Larry Wagner. Shelby had a very good Ag. program and a shop program with
Tom Carey, a woodshop and a metal shop. So, they really had some very good vocational training back
then between the two schools.
WU: Between the two schools…
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
LB: Yeah, between the two schools. So, I took agriculture classes my last three years and FFA became a
bigger part of my life along with my brother. And I learned parliamentary procedure and I took a forestry
class which I didn't do real well in. But, in general, it was... I enjoyed it immensely and it served me well.
WU: In terms of your high school experience, again, is there a high school teacher that stands out in
your memory or is special?
LB: In high school, I would say I had a… it's amazing how you connect with people that are close to your
age. And we did have a single female teacher who by the name of Becky Gill, and she taught English and
it seemed like most of us really could relate to her. And then also another English teacher by the name
of Shirley Haeg. And one reason why I could connect with Shirley, her maiden name when she was first
at Shelby High School was Bylsma. So, there was a little bit of kindred spirit there and she taught drama.
And so, for plays, I had her and again, just a very good teacher. And she ended up becoming a minister.
She was a minister at the church here in Hart Congregational for several years.
WU: Her last name is…
LB: Haeg, Shirley Haeg.
WU: Yes, that’s interesting. Before I get you into college, I want to go back and visit the Bull situation
and your work experience there. Just briefly, what you and your brothers were doing for...
LB: Sure. The first time we worked for the Bulls was, of course, when Vernon Bull purchased this orchard
close to our farm. And we got it as ten, eleven, twelve-year-old kids picking all the low branches. So, we
thought Vernon was the best because we always didn't get paid when we worked for our parents. So,
we really wanted to work for Vernon. Vernon, in 1971, there was a pretty big cherry crop and he needed
more people to work in the cherry processing plant. And that was about three weeks, three and a half
weeks, worth of work. And at age fourteen, he first of all, grabbed my brother Paul, who was sixteen. I
was fourteen. So, I went there the next day asking him if I could work. And then he ended up hiring my
brother John, who was thirteen at the time. I was... the only criteria, Vernon said, was if anyone asks,
tell them you're 16. So, I got to work, what they called an IQF, which is an individual quick freeze. And
what that would do was take the sour cherries after they're pitted and a certain amount of those
cherries went through the IQF machine and I was to box them up and to keep it running. And so, I filled
boxes and stacked it for about three and a half weeks. And then my brother, John, was able to run the
cooling pad with the forklift outside and Paul was running one of the three shakers.
WU: So, the Byl boys were running this plant that... teenage years, basically, with some adult
supervision.
LB: Some adult supervision. And of course, we felt very special because I was working with folks like Kim
Griffin from Shelby and another fellow who I think is an attorney or a judge in Kalamazoo, Doug
Burmeister. And so, they were all older than us, but they treated us... as long as we did our job, they
treated us as an equal.
WU: Well, briefly, describe your years, your educational years after Shelby High. From there you went
where?
LB: OK. From Shelby High School, I went to Hope College. And, actually, by the time I was sixteen, I
worked on Dad's Farm and Vernon Bull and I have a little bit of my mom's blood; I wanted to do some
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
exploring. So, I asked my parents if I could go out west and work for an uncle who was the head
gardener for Henry Kaiser from Kaiser Steel and Aluminum, who had a summer estate in the Puget
Sound off Seattle. And it was probably a three-hundred-acre estate with seven homes and greenhouse.
And I was one of seven gardeners. And I got to use my farming skills, which was spraying, weeding,
mowing, and I really enjoyed that.
WU: This was the summer of your junior year or going into your senior year?
LB: I actually worked out there for three different summers.
WU: OK.
LB: So that gave me just a little different perspective because like a lot of kids, when you’re sixteen,
seventeen, eighteen, you know, mom and dad isn't the brightest. At least they didn't seem that way at
the time. And you want to spread your own wings. And I just really credit my parents for saying, OK, as
long as Paul stays because he's the most gifted in terms of driving a tractor and helping out with the
farm. But I know my interest was not going to be the farm. At least I thought that was the case. And so,
then I went to Hope College for four years and got into real estate my sophomore year of Hope College.
WU: What type of program were you on at Hope from an educational standpoint.
LB: Econ and Poli Sci.
WU: Okay, and then you started to tell me about getting interested in real estate. So, let's pick it up
from there.
LB: Sure. My sophomore year at Hope College, I talked to Pete Wickstra, who I knew from church, and
he had a son a few years older than me who had dropped out of law school and had gone back into their
family real estate business and was obviously doing very well financially. And that looked like something
of some interest to me. And Pete Wickstra was interested in mentoring someone who could work with
Jim Wickstra and so that was the start of what would eventually become a partnership. And then
eventually I bought out Jim Wickstra as he retired early.
WU: So that's what you ended up as your life's work, basically?
LB: My life's work was real estate. But an interesting aspect if we get back to the agriculture...
WU: Yes, that's where I was hoping...
LB: In ‘91, ‘92, I was involved in my largest development project. I, and two other partners, purchased a
Girl Scout camp at School Section Lake, and we subdivided that into forty waterfront lots and cleaned
that up and sold that. And I did very, very well in that project. Now, what I did with the profits from that
project, I turned around and purchased a one hundred sixty-acre asparagus farm in Walkerville. So here I
went from couldn't wait to get away from the farm to wanting to purchase a farm and recognizing how
capital intensive a farm is because in addition to the land, you either have to have trees or in my case,
asparagus roots, which is going to cost you another ton of money and then the equipment and then
making sure you have labor to harvest, which might mean housing. So, I got into a pretty good-sized
asparagus operation and one of the reasons was I had three young children and I realized my children
did not have to work. I had to work growing up. There was no... never any question. If we wanted to eat,
if we wanted a bicycle, if we wanted anything, we had to work for it. My children did not have that
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
luxury. I mean, they were… I'm not going to say they were born with a silver spoon, but how could I say
we can't afford to buy you a new bike? So, by purchasing this asparagus farm and intentionally I stuck
with asparagus because pretty much by the Fourth of July, you're done with the crop. You're done
harvesting. You've closed it and there's still some minimal upkeep, but it's not like cherries and peaches
where you're slaving and working hard all summer. This still gave... I expected my kids to work hard and
I paid them well. And being the Dutchmen that I am, by paying them well, they could then pay for part
of their college. I could deduct the amount that I paid them and write it off as an expense.
WU: And they reported income at a lower bracket.
LB: ...at a lower bracket. So, it worked out well. Plus, if I would have simply paid for their education,
which I could have done, it… I don't think they would have appreciated it as much. Now, they had their
own money to decide, “Hey, do I really want Hope College.” And my three kids went to Hope college,
and one went to Northwestern in Chicago, and my daughter went to Syracuse. Now the one that went
to Northwestern was about double what Hope College was and Hope College was fifty percent more
than U of M, where he had been accepted. But Northwestern just had the feel for him and for him that
was the right choice. But he knew he would never have a car while at college like my son, oldest son, did
at Hope. You make sacrifices and that's okay.
WU: Probably to fill out your family tree, so to speak, you were married when?
LB: I graduated from Hope College and got married in 1979.
WU: And your wife's full name?
LB: My wife's full name is Ann Chase Davenport. And now, of course, Ann Chase Byl.
WU: Right.
LB: And she is from New Jersey. Her father... she's the youngest of four children and her father was a
CPA at Rutgers University. And Mom was a stay at home mom who ended up doing some tax work later
in life.
WU: And you met Ann where?
LB: At Hope College.
WU: And was she in your class or?
LB: She was in my class.
WU: So, both of you graduated about the same time from Hope.
LB: Yes.
WU: And right from college, did you come back to Oceana immediately or was there an interlude there?
LB: No, because I was working in the real estate business in the summers. By the time I was a senior at
Hope College, I had a Monday night class, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday; Thursday night I was back
here in Shelby working real estate Friday, Saturday...
WU: With Wickstra?
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
LB: With Wickstra.
WU: Okay.
LB: So, I was working three days a week at Wickstra and my wife was a business major and right out of
college she got a job at Silver Mills Food Processing in Accounts Payable.
WU: Henry Perlowitz [?] and his gang came to town.
LB: Yes.
WU: Gosh, Dan Bernson [?] was a great friend of mine and I really miss Stan. [?] He's still alive, but I just
don't get a chance to socialize with him like I did once upon a time in my life, but that's an aside. Why
don't you name your children and best you can, at least, the years they were born.
LB: Sure. I have three children. My oldest is Ben. He was born in or around 1981. Then I have Jacob.
Jacob was born around 1983. And then I have Christa, who was born around 1986.
WU: And all these children, I'm sure, are out of the nest now.
LB: They are all out of the nest. They are all married. My oldest, Ben, went to Hope College and this is
going to tie in with the farming.
WU: Okay.
LB: Ben graduated with a history degree. Now, why my kids were liberal arts instead of having
something practical, I don't know. But he was a history major and out of college, he really didn't know
what to do. So, he actually went into the Peace Corps and was in Madagascar for two and a half years
where he worked in ecology, they called it, and in agriculture. And that really stirred his interest in that
area. So, when he got back, he asked me to continue with the farming operation. In fact, we bought
another 40 or 80 acres in just east of Shelby for fruit production and Ben then went and enrolled in a
two-year master's program at Michigan State in Ag. Research, Fruit Tree Research, and started farming
full- time and met an absolutely wonderful gal from Kent City, Amber [?], whose parents are big apple
growers and neighbors of Vernon Bull. And so, Ben, today... she, Amber, was also in the Peace Corps and
they had met at a Peace Corps event. And so, Ben is farming with his father-in-law, which allowed me to,
as I semi-retire, I ended up selling my asparagus farm two years ago to Ryan and Chris Mahlberg. [?] I
was holding the farm back in case Ben wanted to farm full-time, recognizing it’s so capital intensive. If
there isn't some help from the parents, it's never going to happen right away.
WU: Right. But at this point, it's more or less working. Did he marry this gal?
LB: Yes, he married this gal; that is his wife.
WU: And so, he's working with his in-laws?
LB: And he's working with his in-laws. He puts on a lot of miles with his little S-10 pickup. He still has the
eighty-acre farm here in Shelby, and that's largely cherries and apples, some cherries. And so, he and his
wife, she works for Gordon Food Services buying products, especially fruits and vegetables for them
because of her background. And they do a Farmer's Market on Fulton Street and in Rockford on Fridays
and Saturdays. And they help run the family farm at Kent City, as well as the Shelby farm,
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
WU: Well, I'm going to lead you into community activity because I know you're very much involved in
that. And then we'll see if there's anything special you want to say and items that I haven't touched, at
least for the purpose of today. Just briefly, you're involved in your County Commissioner to begin with,
correct?
LB: Yes.
WU: And you've been there for how long?
LB: I have been a County Commissioner for around thirteen years. Before that, I was on the Shelby
Village Council for about twelve years, including Village President.
WU: And are you from a church or a service club situation? Why don’t you describe that?
LB: Within the church family, I'm a member and the chairman of the Deacons of New Era Reformed
Church. And for organizations, I am a member and have been for over thirty years to Shelby Rotary Club.
And I'm a member of, of course, Farm Bureau, member of MSU Extension Advisory Committee. And that
would be a four-county committee. And part of being a County Commissioner also puts you in with
other activities. One is I'm a member of the Michigan Works and that would be the West Central and
that would be a total of six counties. I'm one of three members representing Oceana County. So, we
look and we have an office here in Oceana County and Shelby and we work hard to get enough
employees with the farmers, which is becoming a bigger problem.
WU: Just to get the help needed.
LB: Just to get the help needed. And part of it is, when I was in high school, all high school kids worked.
Today, that isn't the case. I'm not saying they're lazy, but they've got band camp, they've got football
camp, they've got cross country camp, they've got basketball camp. They've got all kinds of things going
on.
WU: And in what ways have you seen our area change since your boyhood days?
LB: Since my boyhood days, I would say when I was in school, I'm happy to say we've always had pretty
good race relations. And that, what I mean by that, is the Hispanics that were in my high school class
were friends and they still are friends. But that probably represented five to ten percent of the class.
Today, I think both Hart and Shelby, probably forty to forty-five percent of the student population would
be Hispanic. I'm not saying that's bad or good, but, you know, that's probably the biggest change. And
what I have found, Hispanics - in general, and I'm generalizing - but they really value hard work. They
don't value education. You're going to see a lot of the parents will encourage the boys at sixteen or
seventeen: Why continue with school if you're going to... if you can work elsewhere.
WU: And make some money right now.
LB: Right.
WU: Well, if someone listens to this interview or reads the transcript that eventually will be made, say,
thirty or forty years from now. What would you most like them to know about your life and the
community?
LB: Well, one of the things... I'm going to borrow a phrase from my old or former Shelby High School or
Shelby School Superintendent, John [?]. John said he couldn't wait - as he was growing up on a farm - he
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�Growing Community: Oceana’s Agricultural History Project
A project supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant
Project Director: Melanie Shell-Weiss, GVSU Liberal Studies Department
couldn't wait to get away from burning wood. He said it seemed like every Saturday we had to go out,
chop down trees, cut wood. And he said, you know what happened? Of course, he started building
homes in the summer. And he said, as I got older, I went back to burning wood because I needed the
exercise and I enjoyed it. And I think back probably my least favorite thing to do in the wintertime was
cutting wood on Saturday, using a two-wheel drive pickup, getting stuck, and having to cut wood with
my dad and brothers and not liking that at all. Hey, the last two or three years, I’ve really enjoyed
cutting wood and stacking it and burning a little wood along with my gas.
WU: Well, is there anything that you would like to share that I may not have asked you about? Sort of an
open-ended question...
LB: Sure.
WU: ...to give you a chance to say something that you think is important to, as part of this interview.
LB: And again, this interview primarily ties in with agriculture. I am hopeful that we will continue to
remain to have a strong, viable agriculture community. Obviously, we have the food processing plants,
Gerber is very important, Peterson is important. But when I first moved here, in fact, when I graduated
from college in ‘79, there was no such firm as Peterson’s Food Processing. Things are always changing
and embrace that change. And hopefully you will get some dynamic people like an Earl Peterson who
will continue to invest in the area and that we have smart enough government officials that basically
stay out of the way when you have a responsible person like Earl who's willing to invest. And you can go
through history over the last one hundred and twenty years, those individuals have stepped up. And it
just seems to me like government is doing what it can to put a harness and hold back some of those
folks. And I'm hopeful that in this area will continue to see people - again, I use the word “responsible”
people - who won't leave a legacy of pollution like they did in the White Lake area. But that will continue
to employ people, buy products here, and do what we call value-added services to our agriculture.
WU: Well, I see the time that we had allotted is about to expire here. Larry, I just want to thank you for
your time and for sharing your memories with me. And this formally concludes our interview. Thank you
very much.
14
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c816ace3fec8a9d7c1ec5c3235a0d7d9.mp3
25f7e47e9ff6887f4a4bcd689b9622db
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Oceana County Migrant Labor History Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Shell-Weiss, Melanie
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Growing Community: A Century of Migration in Oceana County." This project was a collaboration between El Centro Hispano de Oceana, the Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society, and Grand Valley State University funded by a Common Heritage grant from the United States National Endowment for the Humanities. The materials in this collection document the history of communities in Hart, Shelby, and Walkerville and explore themes of migration, labor, religion, family, belonging, national and cultural identities, regional, national, and international connections, and citizenship.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Oceana County (Mich.)
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Special Collections and University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
El Centro Hispano de Oceana; Oceana County Historical and Genealogical Society
Relation
A related resource
Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage project)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
DC-06
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
image/jpeg
audio/mp3
Type
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Text
Image
Sound recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
spa
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oceana County (Mich.)
Hart (Mich.)
Shelby (Mich.)
Farms
Farmers
Migrant agricultural laborers
Hispanic Americans
Account books
Diaries
Oral history
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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DC-06_Byl_Larry
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Byl, Larry
Date
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2016-06-18
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Byl, Larry (audio interview and transcript)
Description
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Oral history interview with Lawrence (Larry) Byl. Interviewed by Walter Urick on June 18, 2016 in Hart, Michigan. English language. Larry Byl was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1957 as the son of two Dutch immigrants. Larry and his family moved to western Oceana County in 1966 and created a life for their family on their eighty-acre fruit farm, which over the years grew to become a three-hundred-acre farm. He attended Shelby High School where he took Future Farmers of America classes, and later graduated from Hope College in Holland, Michigan before finding his life’s work in real estate. Larry also served many years as County Commissioner and Village President for his community of Shelby, Michigan.
Contributor
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Urick, Walter (interviewer)
Subject
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Oceana County (Mich.)
Shelby (Mich.)
Farms
Farmers
Fruit growers
Future Farmers of America
Hope College
Audio recordings
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Growing Community (NEH Common Heritage)
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
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Text
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audio/mp3
application/pdf
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eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e91939e6ee136589e2be657f39f60319.pdf
d09b60f29bc97a0a7379a476780b7b94
PDF Text
Text
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a0ad0d5f46710bb9397eeb97a290a226.pdf
9d1b993d46e64a48eea7e77296dd501b
PDF Text
Text
Theodore Peticolas Diary, RHC-51
Transcription by Robert Beasecker
[Front Cover]
[Inside cover page blank]
[Front Matter]
Pocket Diary 1863
Title Page
Counting House Almanac 1863
Distances and Time by railroad from New York
Population of the United States (including totla slave pop 1850 + 1860)
San Francisco Tides
Eclipses in 1863
Rates of Postage
Almanac of 1863
[Page 1]
[note written above the date]
Battle of Stones River. Wind South.
Thursday, January 1, 1863 [Peticolas indicated the temperature three times for each entry]
[Temp. 18,33,33]
Lilla walked over this afternoon. Var. Fine day for the first but very cold this morning. Thawed
very little. I did housework & read. Attend to the stock. Sent an article to the Country
Gentleman on Borers and a letter to Julia. Hazy.
Friday 2
[Temp. 37, 50, 30]
I went to see Young about fixing fence. Var. Little sun today. Wind south. Preparing for a
rain. Kake & Lou cut the dry woods in the garden then loused the rest of the day. I drove
Conklins cows out twice after the[y] tore down the Fodder stacks. Cloudy.
Saturday 3
[Temp. 46, 54, 50]
Var. Very moderate today but Rained most of the forenoon. Jake hard to manage today. Shirked
his work. Went down to fix the fence to keep out Conklins cows. I was very unwell and
feverish today.
[Page 2]
�Sunday 4
[Temp. 50, 54, 52]
Var. Rained all the forenoon. Cleared off after dawn and was splendid. I had a dreadful bad
night. Fever & restlessness. I did nothing but read and took one little tramp but was afraid of the
damp to stagout.
Monday 5
[see symbol]
[Temp. 34, 52, 48]
Julia did not come. Var. Very fine day but too damp for us to be out much. Geo. Young fixed
the fence to keep Conklins Cows out. John came and got a barrel of Cider out of the cellar. Mr.
Ducket made us a long visit this afternoon. Hazy.
Tuesday 6
[Temp. 36, 46, 24]
Jul did not come. Note from Del. Rained this morning. Quit soon after breakfast turning cold
very rapidly. Jake sawed wood, took up two Junipers & planted themselves at the graveyard.
Lou took shafts down to Wilimngtons. Cloudy & windy.[Page 3]
Wednesday, January 7, 1863
[Temp. 18, 28, 20]
Var. very cold all day. Jake began digging a new grape border front of the cowhouse. Mrs.
Dickinson of Kale did a big wash. I did nothing but read [?] I got home, sick as usual. Closed[?]
Thursday 8
[Temp. 23, 39. 20]
Sherman attacks Vicksburg. Snowed in the night & part of today about an inch & a half. Jake
sawed some & sled[?] some stac'd in the house & began Les Miserables. The day was very dull
& I had the [?]
Friday 9
[Temp. 24, 34, 34]
Codfish dinner. Var., still cold but moderating a little. Jake sawed a little wood & fooled corn
dealt.[?] Time away I read to the girls & did housework. Cloudy.
[Page 4]
Saturday, January 10, 1863
[Temp. 44, 48, 36]
�Var. This has been a very moderately cool day after a homendow [?] hard wind & rain this
morning, all the snow has all disappeared. Jake sawed some wood. Clear. [seperation symbol]
Read Les Miserables.
Sunday 11
[Temp. 34, 40, 36]
Was a very fine day, but was too stick to go out. I had a wet compress on my throat which gave
me a worse cold than I ever had in my life. Jake went store. Lick on Prince. [?] Clear.
Monday 12
[Temp. 28, 54, 44]
Kate & Lou went to town. Splendid spring day but i could not go out being too sick running rose
and splitting headache. Jake spaded. Raspberries [?] went to Sallie's afternoon. Her photograph
came to night. Hazy.
[Page 5]
[Top of page containing date missing]
[Temp. 60,59]
Cloudy all day. [words missing] like looks like rain. I had a terrible night, fever & bursting
headache. Jake & Frank hauled Foddes [?]. I feel better tonight I have felt for three days. [?] is
better too. Cloudy.
[Page 6][top of page containing date missing. First words of text in the entry are also missing].
[Temp. 18, 22, 13
this morning. This is the deepest snow we have ever had --- more than ten feet. [?] quite sick,
and I not much better. I coughed this morning dreadfully. Jake made baths & sawed some.
Cloudy.
Saturday 17
B.[Temp. 6, 18, 2]
Var. Cloudy nearly all day and very cold. No thaw. Jake sawed wood & went to the store after
Ink. I have been quite unwell all day. Clear.
Sunday 18
[Temp. 6, 34, 22]
Sunshine all day, moderate. Some wind South but still very cold. I coughed very badly this
morning but am a little better. Lou made to the post office. Clear.
[Page 7]
[Temp. 22, 40, 37]
�Mr. Adams arrived unexpected. Cloudy all day, began misting about 4 PM & still continues.
Should it turn to a rain it will produce a flood. Jake sawed. I finished reading the 2nd vol of Les
Miserables. Drizzling.
Tuesday 20
Wednesday 21
[Temp. 32, 31, 34]
Kate and Mr. Adams left in the bus [?]. Snowed in the night a little but thawed all day. Jake was
off all day rabbit hunting again. I coughed all night the worst yet and I dread tonight. Emor[?]
called to see me today. Cloudy.
[Page 8]
Thursday, January 22, 1863
[Temp. 34, 36, 33]
Cloudy all day not cold. Cloudy all day not cold. Thawing slowly. Jake shelled corn and went
to mill but did not get it ground got chopped but no Brase. Julia washed. Cloudy --- headache
all day.
Friday 23
[Temp. 33, 40, 40)
Kate, Del & children came out. Var cloudy all day. Rained since dark, Jake lasoed (?) some.
Carried hay over to the barn. I hit a [?] of Rockers to my arm chair & nearly sawed off my
thumb. Drizzling.Kate got books for camp.
Saturday 24
[Temp. 44, 54, 48]
Var. cloudy nearly all day. Very moderate for the season. Snow rappidly disappearing. Jake off
again all forenoon. Jule [?] scrubbed kitchen. Cloudy [seperation symbol] my cold better.
[Page 9]
Sunday, January 25, 1863
[Temp. 36, 50, 46]
Cloudy all day and very warm looking very much like rain. Snow entirely gone. Making the
road area [?] I had the horrors terribly. John called. Judy & I had a [?] with him.
[Monday 26]
[Temp. 50, 50, 42]
�Cloudy and rainy all day. Jake went to mill after our meal. Got chopped & Bran. I assorted 16
as [?] to him it out. No name found. Two Nos missing concluded to read it so. Everybody got
town's[?] diarreah. Raining.
Tuesday 27
[Temp. 33, 33, 28]
Rain turned to snow. Snowed nearly all day very fine but melted as it fell. Jake sawed & shel'd
wood all day. We began reading Gollum's late of no name. Had codfish for dinner. Lou very
sick. Cholera. [?]
[Page 10]
Wednesday, January 28, 1863.
[Temp. 22, 26, 20]
Ms. Dickinson washed. Snowed in the night about 2 inches. Turning cold. Jake sawed wood,
went to [?] our Prince[?] Got a wrench. I wrote to {blank}[?] & to Kaspers. Wrote
advertisements but forgot to send them. Clear.
Thursday 29
[Temp. 20, 39, 36]
Mr. Dicket called. Var. moderated some, wind south, Jake sawed wood until noon when he left
for the rest of the day. I got croton oil in my eyes causing excruciating pain for several hours.
Del & Jul called on [?]
Friday 30
Snow again last night. A little colder today. Jake sawed a little wood. Hard to keep at his work.
Del spent the day at Jenkins. I put a new valve in th[e] [?] Broke the shovel off soldere & it on
again.
[Page 11]
Saturday, January 31, 1863.
[Temp. 21, 40, 33] Garrison came out tonight. Cloudy all day. Moderated some. Jake hauled
over some hay from the woodhouse loft and sawed some wood. I read No Name to the girls. Pd.
Butcher's Bill $500. Cloudy.
Sunday, February 1
Had oysters for dinner. Var. Rained nearly all the forenoon very [?] all day. Jake went to East
Liberty with a note from me to John. Took both horses & Frank D. without leave. Clear.
Eggnog.
Monday 2
�[Temp. 15, 30, 20] Garrison left in the [?] Var. very cold in the morning & all day. I read no
name part of the day. [?] Jake up for not feeding Girls. Went to Gonklins [?] to tea. I went to
see young & Dickets about getting a boy. Got no satisfaction. Hazy.
[Page 12]
Jul still suffering from Porerigo[?]
Tuesday, February 3, 1863
[Temp. 7, 13, 8]
Kate went to town today. Var. One of the coldest nights and days this winter. Jake began
hauling wood from Keltman [?] I read Life of Grimalde aloud of No Name to go on. Clear. B.
Wednesday 4.
[Temp. 12, 23, 21]
Var. Moderated a little in the night. Jake hauled wood from Keltman & went to the store. I did
nothing but housework and read. Del went to young, and I paid for butter. Cloudy.
Thursday 5
[see symbol]
[Temp. 24, 26, 24]
Del & Children left in the [?] Snowed in the night and all day. Jul & I spent the day & took
dinner [?] John had hard pulling through the snow. Jake I suppose did nothing. Snowing a little.
[Page 13]
Friday, February 6, 1863
[Temp. 15, 21, 14] Var. very cold all. Snowed a little this morning. Snow about 9 inches to a
foot. Jake sawed wood & went to P.O. on Prince. I finished No Name, Kaspers came last night.
Two letters for Kate.
Saturday 7.
[see symbol]
[Temp. 10, 38, 34]
Jake and Lou hauled hay fr. Woodh. Var. Sun shone considerably. Moderated, Clouded over
towards evening. Bennet called to see about trees. I read Grimaldy to Jul. Jake lost all morning.
Sunday 8
[Temp. 38, 42, 38]
B.
Cloudy all day. Moderated. Very much thawing. Musting since dark. Wrote out my article on
Fieldmice for the {Country Gent} & a letter to Mr Emmons. Jake went home on Tom & got
home to [?]
[Page 14]
�Monday, February 9, 1863.
[Temp. 42, 50, 49]
Var. cloudy & misty. Jake sawed some wood & assorted & wiped apples in the cellar. Lou & I
went to Willowville for Butter. Paid up a couple of bills for nursery sale. Cloudy.
Tuesday 10
B.
Lou sick and suffering very much. Var. cleared off towards night. Not very cold. Jake oiled the
harness. Left after dinner for home. I sent a letter to Kate & one to Money advertisement. Sent
for coal oil. Clear.
Wednesday 11
Rained from noon until night. Cloudy & murky looking day. Jake hauled wood from Keltmans
& sawed some. Jill being sick I did all the housework. I did not feel right by any means. Kate
did not come. Lilla[?] walled over. Raining.
[Page 15]
Thursday, February 12, 1863
[Temp. 34, 30, 34]
Kate got home at last. Rained shortly after breakfast & continued hard until noon. Remained
cloudy. Jill very unwell bad sorethroat and hoarse. I read considerably aloud. Sugar & Coffee
did not come. Dark & Cloudy.
Friday 13
[see symbol]
[Temp. 34, 35, 34]
Cloudy all day. Wind south. Looks like snow. Jake as usual fooled away his time. Sawed a
little wood. John called & took dinner with us talked us crazy. Sugar & Coffee came but Papers
forgotten. Cloudy.
Saturday 14
[Temp. 32, 56, 53]
B.
Cloudy all day. Began raining about 2 P.M. & continued until 8 P.M. Some stars but too warm
Lou & Jake went to mill. Jake rode to store. Sick the only [?] got home at 3 PM. I walked
doing in the nursery. Looked at the wheat. Cloudy.
[Page 16]
Sunday, February 15, 1863
[see symbol]
[Temp. 44, 46, 32]
�Var. very fine day. Lou & I made up our minds to go to town, in the Buggy. After a pleasant
cool ride we got to Del's about 5 P.M. or half past 4. We left home at 1/2 past 12. Del washed at
home. Clear.
Monday 16
[Temp. 26,48,40]
Var. cloudy most of the day. Quite cold. Jake fooled his time away chopping. I called on Ms.
Gibson who [?] me very kindly [?] on my lunching [?] Del's [underlined]{Swing Machine} on
the buggy, left Lou in town. Cloudy.
Tuesday 17
[Temp. 34,42,39] Sent coffee back to George. Raining when we got up. Continued nearly all
forenoon. Jake & Rob D. sawed and split wood. Kate ran the [underlined] {Machine} all day.
Old woman came to see if we could give her work. Gave her supplies & put her to work[?]
Cloudy.
[Page 17]
Wednesday, February 18, 1863
[Temp. 40,44,44]
Raining again this morning. Drizzled most of the day. Dutch man got twenty appletrees. I had
to be out in the mist. Jake made labels nearly all day. Very dark & cloudy.
Thursday 19
Lou & Jake gone to Young Pasty. Rain every morning. Sun shone a few minutes this afternoon.
I had a slight chill tonight and for the two previous days. I hung up the Hams & made smoke.
Jake finished the Labels 500. [underlined]{Raining, wind.}
Friday 20
We got four [underlined]{Hens} from Mr. Teal. Var. Cleared off at last. Sun shone toward
evening. Jack went home & back by supertime. I was quick unwell had a [underlined] {hot
fever}. Excruciating pain in the head. Mr. Conklin and sister called after tea to invite us to
dinner on Sunday.
[Page 18]
Saturday, February 21, 1863
[Temp. 28, 31, 26]
Cloudy all day turning cold. Jake & Bob D. hauled hay from the woodhouse loft to the barn. I
missed my fever & feel a little better. Got a letter from Ed to Lou[?] with some prospect for a
loan. Snowing.
�Sunday 22
[Temp. 25, 31, 19]
Snowing snowed all night and great [?] of the day very fine. Snow about 8 inches deep. Being
the [underlined]{third deep snow this} winter. Kate & I went to Conklins to a late dinner of
turkey oysters. Quite[?] considerate of a Conkin [?] Cloudy.
Monday 23
[Temp. 8, 26, 17 1/2]
Lou got home. Very cold. Var. clear nearly all day. Jack went to [?] and posted some of our
bills. Sawed a little. His father called and settled with one for Jake, Conklins came over after
tea & took eggnog & cake. Cloudy.
[Page 19]
[note above the date]
Tuesday, 24, 1863
[Temp. 22,42,37]
I wrote to Del. Jul wrote to Ed. Var. clear most of the day. Moderated very much. Jake hauled
some wood. Kline got 38 trees. Kept one nearly three hours in the slushy snow it will give a
fine cold. I am sick. Cloudy.
Wednesday 25
[Temp. 32,55,51]
Var. Moderated considering[?] Jake hauled wood all day. Made four loads. Read Les
Miserables to the girls. Jake & Lou gone to Sugar Camp. Another letter [?] Ed about the loan.
Thursday 26
[see symbol]
[Temp. 33, 39, 34] Var. Looked like rain all day. [?] my going to Pataria[?] Jake shelled corn &
measured [?]. I cut Grafts. [?] Jake hauled wood for Dickinson. Cloudy & warm.
[Page 20]
Friday, February 27, 1863
Archy Woodruff died today.[Temp. 53, 60, 34] Two months younger than me. Var. Splendid
spring day. Jake stacked and sawed wood. I went to Bataria Recorders office to get mortgages
to [?] wheat and corn. Denied with Lindey Moore, got corn} ground.
Saturday 28
[Temp. 32, 52, 44]
�Drizzled a little this evening. Var. rather cold, first very fine but muddy. Lent Jake to Bataria to
the Recorder. Bid Broadwell receipt would not answer to cancel the mortgage. Two men called
to look at the nursery. I made catalogue for the nursery. Cloudy.
Sunday, March 1
[Temp. 40, 41, 32]
Cloudy all day. Turned colder. I read Les Miserables nearly all day. Finished the fourth vol.
Jake been gone all day not home yet. Hope for a fine day tommorow. Clear and cool, quite
windy today.
[Page 21]
Monday, March 2, 1863
[Temp. 34, 40, 32]
Var. Cold. Spit snow a few. A small number of men assembled in the woodhouse & bid so
meanly that I was perfectly discouraged. The whole sale only amounted to about $70. Voyela
Gallaire. Clear.
Tuesday 3
[see symbol]
[Temp. 32, 33, 26]
We finished Les Miserables. Snowed in the night and some this morning. I made out all the
bills of the sale of Trees. Kate & Jake started for town in the wagon, taking the sawing machine
home. Prince got away from Lou at Willowville. Clear & cold.
Wednesday 4
[see symbol]
[Temp. 23, 31, 23]
Var. very cold for the season. Peaches will certainly suffer tonight. Jake got home about 4 P.M.
Brought out Beatshead & Mattress. I coppied mortgage. Got dissapointed in a horse to go to
Broadwells. Ms. Conklin called. Clear & cold.
[Page 22]
Some prospect of getting money of [?]
Thursday, March 5, 1863
[Temp. 18, 32, 35]
Var. very cold. This morning I borrowed Mrs. Teal's Horse & rode to bull & Sam Edwards to
see about the old mortgage but could not find it. Jul & I went to Bea after dinner, seymed[?]
Dels mortgage. I went to Mill. Called on Ms. Bond. Got home after dark in the snow --- nearly
frozen. Drizzling.
Friday 6
�[Temp. 40, 44, 41]
Rained a little in the night. Musted all day. Snow entirely gone. Jake sawed some wood. Feel
very sore from yesterday's exploits. Read Night and Morning to Jul Most of the day. Sent to
Conklins and bought a cock. Misty.
Saturday 7
[Temp. 34, 37, 32]
Read Night and Morning. Rained pretty hard in the night. Everythig underwater. Kitchen all
afloat. Sudden leak in the roof. Nasty all day. Cold in my head, in great pain all day, effects of
my ride and exposure. Cold & Cloudy.
[Page 23]
Wrote to Kate.
Sunday, March 8, 1863
[Temp. 31, 40, 36]
Read Night and Morning. Var. Snowed & rained in the night. Froze a little. Very disagreeable
day. Snow and rain mixed this afternoon feel. Geo. Young got Jake to drive him & family up to
Del's old place. Jul then rode Tom over to Sallie's & has not got back. Drizzling.
Monday 9
[Temp. 31, 38, 30]
Del wood saw. Jul got home to dinner. Var. Clear great part of the day but cold & raw. I sel[?]
Jake to trimming vines. I begin writing labels. Finished Night & Morning, it is splendid. No
news from Bil Edwards. Cloudy --- about the old mortgage.
Tuesday 10
Tuesday 10
Began Paul Clifford. Var. Some sun today but very raw. Jake cut some vines. I walked down
to John Lanes & waited an hour or two then got no real satisfaction about the money. Jake took
Tom and hauled wood for Conklins. Hazy.
[Page 24]
Wednesday, March 11, 1863
[Temp. 31, 40, 39]
I filed and sel woodsaw. Var. cold wind Howling all night and all day. Set Jake to cutting up the
pond hedge at Jul's portion. [?] request, she went to Conklins a few minutes & I to Youngs. The
Milles called for the trees but it was too cold. Clear.
�Thursday 12
[see symbol]
[Temp. 24, 32, 16]
George Young began choppnig wood. Var. very cold. Real winter day. Jake hauled up the last
of the Fodder, then hauled wood. Lou had a long race after the buss which passed before us
knew it. Mrs. [?] & man stopped & dined with us. Clear & cold.
Friday 13
[Temp. 16, 34 ,29]
Sent Kales things down & Del's butter. Var. Bitter cold this morning not so bad a yesterday.
Jake hauled wood & one of old Rails from the Pasture hill. I walked down to the nursery then
over to Hellmans woods to look at our wood then home to read Paul Clifford. Cloudy.
[Page 25]
Saturday, March 14, 1863[Temp. 30, 48, 40]
Var. Moderated very much. Very pleasant. Jake hauled one load of wood & sawed some. Cut
off some of the Hedge in front. I went to Arluss [?] crawfish but did not find him [?] at home.
Got a letter from Del about the loan. Clear.
Sunday 15
[Temp. 36, 41, 49]
Var. Splendid spring day. Very warm. Sent Jake home. Jul & I took a horseback ride. I rode
Prince, she went very well indeed. We walked up to Ducket's to see about the fence. I found
That Young could not come. Clear.
Monday 16
[Temp. 30, 30, 38]
Var. White frost. Splendid day. I went to town. I got $600 of Harrison on mortgage & brot[?]
out a contraband name Charley from Arkansas. Julia spent the day at Camp Dennison with
Conklins. Clear.
[Page 26]
Tuesday, March 17, 1863
[see symbol]
[Temp. 39,69,60]
Jul drove over to Sallie's. Var. Splendid spring day. Slight white forst. Kelly & Cole came and
I got their trees we dug all day. Gomez got $1.00 worth. I was on foot all day. Very tired.
Smokey and cloudy.
�Wednesday 18
[Temp. 50, 52, 40]
Jul went to Gasmel[?] Var. rather cloudy. Col breeze. Trees all day I dug a few. Made a list or
map of the new nursery. Fuller got his 35 trees. Ducket called this evening to see about the
fence. Hazy.
Thursday 19
[Temp. 31, 32, 33]
Charley and Jul washed. Sleet this morning shuck us on arising this morinng & has continued all
day being one of the heaviest we have had for a year. Sending the Cedars down awfully. Mrs.
Young called & settled her milk & butter bill & the Negro question. Drizzling and freezing.
[Page 27]
[note written above the date] Polly called at noon[;] wrote to Kate.
Friday, March 20, 1863
[Temp. 33, 33, 37]
Sleet entirely disappeared this morning. Rained very hard in the night, growing saturated and
water. Charley cut straw & sawed wood. Did more warming than anything else. Drizzling.
Saturday 21
[Temp. 44, 69, 47]
Rained hard again in the night. Charley went to Moore's Mill & brought home $4.00 worth of
ship stuff 9 bushels. I was out a great deal today. Cut some Pear grafts. Jul & I went to Conklins
after supper. Clear.
Sunday 22
Sallie & D walked over, Jul of the way home took the party. Var. Splendid, day quite warm but
very damp ground saturated again with water; I got such a cold yesterday by being out on damp
ground that I was forced to stay in much more than I intended. Peaches and cherries all safe yet.
Cloudy.
[Page 28]
[note written above the date]
[Temp. 55, 69, 62] I sold and dug 4 May Cherries.
Monday, March 23, 1863
Mrs. Kennedy walked over. Var. Sun came out hot. Hard rain in the night with some thunder.
The frost of the season. Charley dug new trees all day. I was out humming & making Currant
Cutting & planting where they were missing. Cloudy. Began saving milk.
�Tuesday 24
[see symbol]
[Temp. 57, 45, 42]
Ms. K left in the Buss.[?] Rained hard again in the night & several times to day. Charley dug a
few trees but found it to be muddy. He sawed wood. I did nothing but sneeze. I catch cold. Jim
Hazel called to inform us that we are to mobbed. Raining.
Wednesday 25
Var. Rained in the night & today, sleet & snow. Thermometer fell since morning. Charley
sawed wood. I rode over to Johnsons to brrow his gun to sefret[?] invasion, but he laughed at me
being certain they would not dare do it. Snowing.
[Page 29]
[note written above the date] McShields[?] No 22 McFarland sheet
Thursday, March 26, 1863
[Temp. 28, 36, 29]
[see symbol] Cloudy, & spit snow all day. Very raw & cold. Charley sawed wood & warmed
his feet, I took the wasgon to be mended, talked to the neighbors about overwhelmed [?] invasion
but they think it all tosh. Jul went to Mrs Leal's. Anche[?] badly. [?] & cold.
Friday 27
[Temp. 28,48,45]
Jul rode to Sallie's, fell off some & shamed[?] her. Var. Very heavy white frost. Geo. Hellman
came with G. Young with G. Young & dug his trees, about 200 paid for them at 7 cents. Charley
dug par of the day, went to Lane's & got 1/4 ton of Timothy Hay. Cloudy. I am very tired.
[underlined]{First Butter}.
Saturday 28
[Temp. 42, 58, 35]Var. Cloudy most of the day. Some sunshine. Charley and I transplanted the
large Princes fig near the Pit to the Pigpen we went hence to the Teals for chickens got four
instead of six. Jul is very much better today. Clear & cloudy.
[Page 30]
Sunday, March 29, 1863
[see symbol]
[Temp. 24, 36, 31]
Var. cold as midicruter[?]. Cold wind all day. I took a tramp all over the orchard. Found the
Peach buds safe yet but there will not be a heavy crop if they are not kitted. Conklins called this
evening. Clear.
�Monday 30
[Temp. 23, 45, 32]
Jul went to Garmel, I wrote to Ms. Shields. Moderated a little. Drunken Dutch man & got 50
trees in the mud. Charley dug up & planted the German Prime in the Pig Pen. I read all until
monthly to Jul. Got tow more chickens of Mrs. Leal. Hazy.
Tuesday 31
[Temp. 30, 26, 28]
Var. Very cold. Wind all day disagreeable & saw snowed several times. I went to Duckets &
had a talk about slanders &c. Charley could only saw wood. I had chilly and bad feeling all
afternoon. Clouds & high wind.
[Page 31]
[note written above the date] My watch went with the money.
[Temp. 22, 42, 22]
Wednesday, April 1, 1863
We know that Charley stole the money. Var. Very cold. Tornado all night, lulled about 5 o'clock
A.M. Discovered that we had been robbed of about $15 out of the pocket of my diary, the
window propped with a book & chair on the outside all sham. Clear moderating.
Thursday 2
[Temp. 48, 60, 44]
We just discovered the loss of my watch. Var. very light wind all night & today. Moderated
very much. Mr. Aymes[?] & dug 350 trees. We had a day serenade of Copperhead whole[?] us
a Lincolns sign or banner[?] over front gate abrised Mrs. Conklin.
Friday 3
[see symbol]
[Temp. 33, 42, 36]
Jul got Egg from Blanch & set a Hen. Var. great variety of weather today. Wind drizzling snow.
We took a walk down to the nursery & back. I went three or four times to keep Charley at work.
He dug trees. I made a map or catalogue of the old nursery. Clear.
[Page 32]
[note written above the date] I met Mrs. Williamson at Del's and [?]
Sunday, April 5, 1863
[Temp. 32, 58, 55]
�Found the [?] very bad work Whoop [?] Var. very fine day. Charley spaded some beds in the
garden. I went to town after dinner and called on Mrs. Shields to see about her son. She agreed
to send him out on Wednesday. Clear.
Sunday 5
Froggs. White frost. Clear but smokey in town. I left Del & called on Mrs. Shields &
persuaded her to let William come out with me in the buggy. I found Sallie & the doctor at
dinner which pleased very much. He fortunately came over last night. Raining.
Monday 6
[Temp. 32, 46, 31]
Sent for the other 1/4 ton of Hay. White frost. Var. very rain and cold. Wind all day. Teal &
McGuire cmae for their trees. I had to go out and attend to digging and was so chilled thorugh
that I had a 4 hours chill. Tongue swelled so that I could not talk for pain than fever. Jul sent for
Dennis. Moan Emetic & Calomel & sweated.
[Page 33]
Tuesday, April 7, 1863
[Temp. 32, 42, 36]
Dr. Dennis called again. Var. Still rain with white forst. Boys worked at the garden bed & with
Julia planted onions. I laid a bed all day being much better. Look salts. Tongue still very
painful & throat very sore but evidently mending.
Wednesday 8
[Temp. 30, 45, 33]
White frost. Byos dug trees & planted the first Pears. Var. Sun shone nearly all day. Very cold
for the time of year. The longest continuation I ever knew in April. Bennel[?] came for his
trees. Julia attended to the delivery. She planted 19 hills of Potatoes in the garden. Clear and
cold.
Thursday 9
[Temp. 26, 36, 44]
Mary Games[?] came in the Buss. Clear all day moderated very much. Boys dig trees all the
afternoon. They quarreled this morning. I makred trees for them to dig. I put the Cmiela[?]
(which is splendid) out in front [?] Mrs. Conklin child Lucy died at about 3 P.M. Clear.
[Page 34]
[note written above the date] [?] seed came.
Friday, April 10, 1863
�Ursham[?] called to see about his trees. Very smokey & hazy all day. Turned suddenly warm.
Real Indian summer. Great lassitude[?] Jul went to town with Conklin to get things for the dead
baby. Mary cooked. I sel Wil[?] to him [?] vineyard and horses & [?] orchard all day. Smokey.
I rode to Lanes on Prince.
Saturday 11
[Temp. 60, 48, 59]
Jul was at Conklins all afternoon helping. Smokey all day. Thunder & a shower since supper,
Wil trimmed in the vineyard. Old Ben Jones got 12 trees. I planted three May cherries with the
most excruciating pain in any side immaginiable [imaginable]. Cloudy.
Sunday 12
[see symbol]
[Temp. 44, 46, 44]
Cloudy all day. Jul has been to Conklins ever since dinner waiting to fix the baby. I put a
mustard plaster on my side last night & again today, the pain abates very slowly. Fever blisters
all around my mouth. Cloudy.
[Page 35]
[note written above the date] [?] to old nursery at 2 cent to town.
Monday, April 13, 1863
[Temp. 41, 55, 46]
Jul went with Buggy to the Funeral. Var. Splendid day. I was too unwell to be out. The
Withanes came & took just what trees they liked. Enor[?] Johnson got his 40. I had to apply
another mustard plaster to my side & it is not well yet. Boys dug trees all day. Clear.
Tuesday 14
[Temp. 42, 55, 54]
Jul not home yet. Var. Drizzled a little towards night. Boys worked at the [?] all day. Jones got
six apple trees. I have been suffering with excruciating pain in my side. Mustard does no good.
I am applying Croton oil. Cloudy.
Wednesday 15
[Temp. 46, 35, 37]
Swallows. Jul & Del with Baby came with Buggie. Rained in the night and a little this morning.
Boys dug a little for Blackberrybed. Two men came for trees, being too unwell to attend, [?] I
had to bus Willy[?] Charley washed his clothes. I have suffered horribly with my side all day.
[Page 36]
[note written above the date] Got 1/4 ton of hay from Hellman's
Thursday, April 16, 1863
�[Temp. 47, 55, 50]
Mary left Buss[?] for Bataria. Raining this morning. Soon stopped. Boys shaded & dug some
trees. McGuire got a few and Witham got a few & swindled me out of the number to[?] I
suffered awfully all day with my side & back. Cloudy.
Friday 17
[Temp. 46, 64, 52]
Var. The smost spring like day we have had for some time. Many [underlibed]{Peaches in
bloom}. Boys got in Ton of Hay from Martins. Will trimmed Black [?] and spaded. I put the
pram[?] & sash on the hot bed. Clear. Peas up.[?]
Saturday 18
[Temp. 44, 78, 67]
Kate got home but left Lou behind. Clear all day. Summer all at once. 34 [degree] change in G
house [greenhouse]. I was out all day. Perfectly warm out. Hot fever about suppertime. Got out
[?] news of Blackbeanes[?]. Took up 20 young Bartletts out of old. Charley began planting
nursery.
[Page 37]
[note written above the date] Set a hem.
Sunday, April 19, 1863
[Temp. 54, 60, 45]
Threatened with Whittetoe. Var. Showered several times today. Very fine before noon. I
walked round considerably interided to hamsplant[?] Cherries but the rain prevented me. Charley
showing strange symptoms. Clear.
Monday 20
[Temp. 38, 70, 61]
Set a hem. Too full. Mary came. Del could not get off buss. Var. Splendid warm day. Charley
pushed ploughing for Potatoes & began Currant. [?] planted seed in Kolbed[?] 8 day. Earlier
than last year, will cut potatoes. I made grafting cloth & put in a few Pears. Planted Peas.
Tuesday 21
[Temp. 30, 75, 54]
Del. got off & Lou came tonight. Var. a little windy. Charley [?] & furrowed[?] two spaces &
planted the first potatoes. I took up all the cherries in the old nursery. I planted them in the
garden in a trench. Grafted the first pears. Mrs. Teal got apple trees. Raining.
[Page 38]
[note written above the date] Sold Polleys [?]
�Wednesday, April 22, 1863
[see symbol]
[Temp. 54, 64, 51]
Mary got off in Buss. Rained very hard in the night. Fine all day. Began again since dark. I set
the boys to spading the vineyard. I dared not venture out much. Jul & I went over to Sallie's.
Raining hard. Put horses in the pasture.
Thursday 23
[see symbol above the date]
[Temp. 46, 54, 50]
Chalrey fixed fence across creek. Rained hard in the night again. Showery. Boys spaded in the
vineyard. Very bad day for me. Took cold sore throat & hoarse pulled[?] a manificent[?]
Camielia[?]. Plums & peaches all in bloom. Also some pears. Cloudy.
Friday 24
[Temp. 50, 70, 50]
Pears opening. Var. Splendid day, very heavy dew. Boys worked in the vineyard. I grafted
Giffard, Clion[?], & Madeline Pears & Krowser apples. [?] broke and I got a fall. Charley takes
sick again. Clear.
[Page 39]
[note written above the date] Push safe[?] the hen with clever young.
Saturday, April 25, 1863
[Temp. 46, 61, 49]
Jul left for town. Var. Splendid day but windy & rather cool too. Cool to graft although I put in
a few [?] Boys worked in the vineyard. I made a hen coop for the hen which has hatched.
Clear. Got two pigs.
Sunday 26
[Temp. 40, 65, 55]
John called & showed some graft he had put in. Hazy but very pleasant. Not warm enough to
graft. I trimmed off suckers & laterals in front of young apples, staked & had blackberries &
tanned leaks on kitchen roof besides [?] considerably all over the orchard. Cloudy.
Monday 27
Mary did not come. Var. cool at sunrise but turned warm. Cloudy. Boys planted Peas, onions,
& okrah. I rode Prince to Willowville[?] & got well jolted[?] Wrote to Jul. Coffee & Curtain[?]
stuff came tonight. Charley lie a vines.
[Page 40]
[note written above the date] Gave Tom salls, he is very costure[?]
Tuesday, April 28, 1863
�[Temp. 58, 68, 54]
Mary fooled us again. Var. showery & drizzly all day. Charley tied a few [?]. Will & Lou went
off after Pigs & did not get back until suppertime. Lou quite sick. I made grafting cloth over &
went after the bogs got damp. Took cold. Raining.
Wednesday 29
[Temp. 50, 64 ,53]
Var. Very heavy dew. Must have rained some in the night. Will took it unto his head to go
home. I let him go. Charley [?] vines all day. Poor Tom sick yet does not [?]. I grafted apples
and pears. Clear.
Thursday 30
[see symbol]
[Temp. 50, 70, 50]
Jul got home tonight. Var. Clear nearly all day. Magnificent day. I grafted [?]. Charley tied
vines. I rode on Prince to Johnsons to find out what to do for Tom. I gave him an injection[?].
His washingtons are in bloom. Clear.
[Page 41]
[note written above the date] Sent 4 lbs butter to Lanes
Friday, May 1, 1863
[Temp. 43, 77, 57]
Asparagus. Var. Splendid day. Every thing in bloom. We put Prince in the wagon with Tom for
the first time. He worked an old horse. Charley & Lou spaded a bed in the garden. Shucked up
brush. I grafted pears and apples. Clear.
Saturday 2
[Temp. 50, 80, 68]
Wrote to the Commercial[?] Var. Very splendid day. Very warm. The boys wed Moore's
seedling Strawberry and Wilsons albany[?] I trimmed house vines and grafted a little. Took
Howers[?] out of Pot & put out two Roses. Kate raked trash. Cloudy.
Sunday 3
[see symbol]
[Temp. 57, 63, 59]
Wrote to Robinson for [?] grape cutting. Var. Misted nearly all day. I was confined to the
house nearly all day. Did nothig but read, took small[?] out of the cellar. Rained about dark.
Girls went to Conklins. Teals & Blanchard[?] Misting. Hen came out with 9 young ones.
[Page 42]
�[note written above the date] Heard Cookoo today.
Monday, May 4, 1863
[Temp. 58, 76, 61]
I grafted pears on Silver [?] Var. Splendid day very damp having rained in the night. Charley
worked at the Pasture fence & tied strawberries. Will went off after breakfast & fooled two
hours so I sent him home after dinner. Raining.
Tuesday 5
[Temp. 58, 66, 50]
I planted snap & Lima Beans. Girls began cleaning house. Rained in the night. Several showers
today with a sprinkle of hail. Charley & Tommy Sturgis the new boy & Lou shelled corn. I
grafted Hubbs ditons[?] & cut off accidentally a new seedling apple bloom. Mr. Sturgis s
washed. Clean & cool.
Wednesday 6
[Temp. 48,, 56, 48]
Very cloudy. Girls & two wmen cleaned house. Cloudy all day with a cool N.W. wind all day.
Too cold for grafting although I did some Pears. Boys trenched al arge bed for Beets &
Planted[?] it. I spaded a strip for Mooses[?] seedling & I planted it. Bummed[?] vines. Willy
Came in Buss & brot a letter to his mother.
[Page 43]
[Temp. 44, 47, 43]
Sent Willy home this morning in the Buss. Cloudy & rain all day. Drizzled after supper, very
bad for the fruit. Boys spade a bed in the garden [?] stacks & burnt trash in old nursery. Jul & I
rode over to Sallies with Tom. I saw Jones about fixing buggy. Raining.
Friday 8
[Temp. 44, 68, 52]
Brot. Plants out of the cellar. Var. cleared off smokey. Turned warm but I fear mildew has been
induced by the raw weather. Boys wed Strawberries & trimmed vines. I grafted Pears & I went
to the mill & got 3 bushels corn ground weighed 130 lbs.
Saturday 9
[Temp. 45, 76, 60]
Ed came in Buss. Spit out melons. Var. the weather has returned to its higher state having been
on a cool [?] for two days. We had Prince in the plow and he worked first rate. Ploughed tow
spaces. Got in the first Sugar Corn & some [?] Sugar Cane. I tarred the shed roof. Got out the
Stove. Clear.
[Page 44]
�Sunday, May 10, 1863
[Temp. 60, 80, 70]
[?] Shadoans had their had their Smokehouse. Var. very warm. I was very sick all night with
Cholera morbus vomiting and purging & fever & headache all day. Lou went after hadoan &
Sallie & took them home. Conklins took dinner. John called & went all over the place. Cloud.
Monday 11
[Temp. 63, 84, 71]
Jane much better but evry weak. Clear all day. Will Johnson began ploughing the woods
cornfield. Boys burtn trash, planted sugar cane & hoed Strawberries. I hooped water barrel, &
Jul & I went huntin.Turkey, Eggs, got 8 & set a hen. Clear.
Tuesday 12
[see symbol]
Spell[?] of vertigo before I got up. Var. warm all day but pleasant. Charley furrowed some of
the wood, lot. I tarred the corn & they willed it in. I did some Bartlett Pear grafting nearly the
last. Cleaned out Rochelle [?]. Clear.
[note written above the date]
Pink Boursaull[?] open. <br
[Page 45]
Wednesday, May 13, 1863
[Temp. 61, 64, 57]
Var. Showery & misty nearly all day. Mr.Johnston came and finished ploughing the wood.
Charley furrowed & boys drilled the corn, slowwork. I staid in couse desably[?]. Clear. My
seedling Currant [?] for [?] [see symbol]
Thursday 14
[Temp. 55, 65, 50]
Jul spent the day at Sallie's. Var. Turned cool. Strong breeze. Mm. Johnson ploughed O.P.O. &
some in Blanchard. Boys planted corn in the woods lot. I taned seed, made chicken coop under
plumtree, hoed grafted trimmed & cooked. Clear.
Friday 15
[Temp. 42, 70, 36]
Boys finished planting woods & covered the [written above]{early potatoes}. Var. very cool this
morning. Fair day. Mm. Johnson ploughs old nursery with his Sod[?] plough & some of the [?]
orchard. I worked hard at different things. The [?] almost camein two. I patched it up with
grafting cloth. [?] more, corn.
�[Page 46]
Saturday, May 16, 1863
[Temp. 52, 78, 56]
[see symbol]
We cut off Calalpa[?] limbs.Var. got a little warmer. I went to get plugh sharpened & to Vails
for Potatoes. Got one and a half bushels, had to pay $1. Charley borrowed Archy lot Prince did
not act well. They cut up the Potatoes. I began flower garden. Clear.
Sunday 17
[Temp. 46, 71, 53]
br>Yellow Rose open.Var. splendid day a little cool. I hoed [?] Raspberry. Put out two [?] &
cut off Suckers bobbed in a Peachtree & examined fruit buds. Found Smiths Cides badly fizzled
out & some others not much better. Clear.
Monday 18
[see symbol]
[Temp. 43, 65, 50]
Var. very cool all day. Fine very pleasant. Mr. Sturgis washed. Charley [?] ground in P.O. &
they planted 4 spaces with corn. [?] peas & made flowerbed. [?]
[Page 47]
[note written above the date] Grimsons[?] [?] First.
Tuesday, May 19, 1863
[Temp. 41, 76, 56]
I did up the border aside of the house. Var. very Col nearly a frost. It makes me uneasy about
the fruit which is left being blighted. Charley hassowed[?] & ploughed all day. Boys cut grass
solidago[?] & young brass. I cooked and did housework whilst Julia ironed. Clear. Planted
marrowtah?
Wednesday 20
Jul went to a quilting at Conklins. Cloudy all day. Looked very much like rain which we need.
They planted the rest of the potatoes. I made a bed with the garden and planted my young
seedling potatoes & planted my yellow ones in the O.P.O. with the others. Clear.
Thursday 21
Jul went over to Sallie's. Smokey indian summer. Determined drouth but very hot. Boys dig
melon holes all afternoon. Lou & G. planted yellow corn in the O.P.O. Jonny dug a bed for
beans. I was busy all day. Put in about 40 [?] grafts & some peas. Smokey.
[Page 48]
�Friday, May 22, 1863
[Temp. 55, 88, 66]
Sent buuter to Del churned before breakfast. Same copper sun real indian summer. Vegetation
begins to suffer. No chance to plant saoked Sorghusse[?]. Jonny got tooth ache & went home. I
worked hard all day making a new boddy[?] to the [?].
Saturday 23
[see symbol]
[55, 89, 68]
I sent Seedling Rhubard[?] to [?]. Smokey all day & the hottest tet, but a breeze sprang up
afternoon which made it more pleasant. Charley finished the melon holes & put manure in them.
I grafted some, found a few [?]. I took a bath in the creek. Clear.
Sunday 24
[Temp. 54, 82, 62]
Kate & Jul went to Sallie's after dining. Var. all signs of rain passed off. Not so warm as
yesterday. I hamped[?] about all day. Went over to Johnsons but he was not at home. I saw a
few Washingtons opening[?]. Some of my conical seedling are opening[?]. Clear.
[Page 49]
Monday, May 25, 1863
[Temp. 58, 86, 68]
Lightning tonight. Var. another hot day, cool breeze. Charley [?] bluegrass all day in the apple
orchard. Boys pinched visies[?] and raked Hay and cooked it up. I made flowerbeds & put out
vesbenas[?]. Clouds.
Tuesday 26
[Temp. 58, 89, 68]
Jul went to town to go to the Opera. Var. some signs of Rain if Thunder is any sign. Boys
pinched vines. Charley was all the forenoon hunting the Horses which got out last night. I did a
big job, took out the Pump and made a new [?] and fixed it first rate. Clear.
Wednesday 27
[Temp. 62, 87, 79]I put out melons from hotted [?] Var. Whe had a small shower in the night. It
was about half an inch. I made the boys plant Sorghum soaked seed. Charley harrowed the old
nursery and & furrowed it out for Corn. I worked hard all day, very unwell feverish & pain.
Cloudy.
[Page 50]
[note written above the date] I finished spadin Rose be hauled in Hay[?]
Thursday, May 28, 1863
�[Temp. 62, 84, 72]
Jul got home with Conklin. Smokey & hazy all day. Sun pretty hot, Charley harrowed,
furrowed & ploughed. The boys planted the last corn. Put in two rows Sugar Corn [written
above]{King Phillippe}. I worked all day, felt quite sick again feverish. Hazy.
Friday 29
[Temp. 63, 78, 68]
<s. Teal & Mr. Conklin took tea. Var. Splendid rain this morning. We got in soaked Sorghum.
We had another fine rain on our seed. I made a dead fall trap to catch a weasel which killed
sever[al] of our young chickens. Send for sweet potatoes.
May 30
[Temp. 64, 80, 64]
I replanted Lima Beans. Mr. Kennedy [?] Var. a very slight shower after dinner. I finished
ploughing front hill. Harrowed it and nearly killed the horses.Potato plants came last night were
only found this evening. Lou & John made hills. I planted 200. I sowed Sorghum load. Cast
dry seed. I worked like Field.
[note written above the date] First Strawberries
Page 51
Sunday, May 31, 1863
[Temp. 62, 76, 64]
Lou took Ms Kennedy & Baby home. Var. Rained smartly about breakfast time. Cleared off
finely until 5 P.M. when these came up a severe Thunder & Rain & Hailstorm. Our cistern '[?]
got stopped up with Hickory blossom & ducked [?] finely [?]. Cloudy.
Monday June 1
[Temp. 62, 74 ,62]
Ms. D. washed. Boys made P. hills. Var. very high wind all day. Very cool and pleasant for
work, Charley ploughed hill back of the Barn. Carter mowed the lawn and part of P.O. Mr.
Blackburn of from [?] used Grass knife alld ay in wagon road[?] &c. Splendid Snaps &
Polebeans & Sweet potatoes.
Tuesday 2
[Temp. 48, 76, 62]
Kate went with Conklins. I came home alone. Var. very cool all day. Mr. Blackburn cut grass
& line the borders. I went to mill with wheat but could not get it ground. Got a little flower &
�meal. Boys are all spaded borders. I taned some & raked old Bark. They raked & took in hay
which Carter cut yesterday (drizzling).
[Page 52]
[note written above the text] Del & family came in Buss
Wednesday, June 3, 1863
[Temp. 51, 69, 52]
Var. very cool all day. Mr. B. lined baths & raked all & left for home. Kate worked like a horse.
I made a chicken Penn and put in 6. I went to Plainsville for the Conklins in their buggy. Boys
hunt for [?] but got none.
Thursday 4
[Temp. 42, 76, 60]
Dwarder & Heaver[?] called. Var. Very cold this morning. Fine very comfortable. Horses got
out last night. Charley hunted them, raked hay in Pear O. I put out 70 Cabbage plants & worked
hard all day. I raked borders & lined some bed up. [?]. Cloudy.
Friday 5
Del went to Amelia & brought [double underlined]{Jonny}. Var. cool again this morning. Boys
raked & hauled litter & hay al day out of P.O. I spaded a little bed opposite porch. Hoed
Tomatoes. Planted thee[?] tomatoes & [underlined{30 Cabbages}. Kate raked in [?]. Clear &
dry. Chickens ate my fine seedling.
[Page 53]
[note written above the text] Sent Jonny home.
Saturday, June 6, 1863
[Temp. 54, 68, 54]
Mrs. Hapgood[?] came in the buss. Var. very cool again. Fire would feel very good tonight.
Boys raked & hauled trash & hay out of P.O. & cleaned up generally. I worked around the Pit &
made one flowerbed. Put out a daily rose in oval bed. Clear & cold.
Sunday 7
[Temp. 46, 68, 52]
Conklins & M. McGelland[?] called. Var. very cool all day. We could not do without fire.
They, the females all took a walk through the woods. I tramped all over the place, Went almost
to every tree exam using the state of the fruit. Clear.
,br>Monday 8
[Temp. 42, 70, 57]
Var. Cool all day but warmer than yesterday. Charley replants corn all day. Did not quite get
one hill done. I went to Balavia. Got Kates Licence to get married. Paid taxes &c. I planted
potatoes in the missing [?] potato hills. Clear.
�[Page 54]Tuesday, June 9, 1863
[Temp. 48, 76]
Var. still cool too day for anything to grow G. replanted corn all day. We got 6 qrts of
Strawberries of Johnsons for tea[?]. I went mill & got Flour & Bran. Mr. Adams, Harrison, &
Ed came in the Buss tonight. Ms. Clark chd not come. Cloudy.[see symbol].
Wednesday 10
[Temp. 50, 76, 54]
Kate was married to Adams at 3 P.M. Var. Splendid. Rain tonight began at 6 P.M. Ms. Clark
Maria & Preacher Graham came. Miss Steuss same. Ed Woodruff, Harriet & sons. Four Girls
sons Filch Adams, Jewel & wife. Kate Mr. Hapgood[?] & all left. Charley took Mrs. K home.
D[?] & Sallie staid. I saw Mrs. Conklin home. Raining.
Thursday 11
[Temp. 66, 69, 61]
Rained at intervals all night. Va.r Splendid day. I planted Tomatoes, Meons & Beets. Hoed
Beans & Peas. Charley covered Potatoes, furrowed & replanted King Philip corn.Pomological
Report came tonight. Strawberries are sour. Too cool to [?] well. Clouds.
[Page 55]
Frdiay, June 12, 1863
[Temp. 54, 80, 66]Var. Magnificent day. Just warm enough. I set Charley to mowing Blue
grass in the L[?].O. Lou & I replanted K.P. & Sugar Corn all that had missed, ta[?] dog. New
furrows. I had a weak [?]Cloudy. Some lightning.
Saturday 13
[Temp. 58, 80, 67]
Hanson rode Prince to B. Girls went to Picknic. Var. another splendid day. Charley hoed
Sorghum. I made a Turkey Pen. Put the hen in with [?] ones two died. I cleaned Austin
Strawberry Bed & [?] it in busy all day. Cut last asparugus. Clear.
Sunday 14
[Temp. 61, 83, 66]
Turkey hens last one died. Var. Splendid day. Warmer than yesterday. I puttered the day away
looking and things. Lou took Sophy home after being here a whole week we were forced to pick
the cherries on the last tree to save them from the birds. Clear.
[Page 56]
Monday, June 15, 1863
[see symbol]
�[Temp. 58, 87, 72]
Harrison left in Buss. Var. Splendid day. Charley cut grass along the road and some in B.O. I
mended gate, made Sythe handle, planted the last of my potatoes, hoed beans &c. Lou wed
Strawberries. They raked hay. Clear.
Tuesday 16
[see symbol]
[Temp. 64, 89, 73]
I worked hard all day weading &c. Hazy all day but very hot & close. Bill Dening began to cut
the orchard grass} but was taken sick & had to quit. Charley mowed some. He & Lou got the
hay up which was on the floor & hauled in one load. Clear.
Wednesday 27
Gnats & mosquitoes bad. Var. very hot again today but there was a fine breeze. Charley hauled
in Hay & then we cooked up what Dening cut in O.O. orchard grass. I was not well all day. We
got up the Black gate & [?] set it for the home pasture. Clear.
[Page 57]
[note written above the date] Interesting Letter from Kate on board boat.
Thursday, June 18, 1863
[Temp. 70, 80, 70]
Del rode to Jenkins. Cloudy & hazy all day. Turned cool twoards night. Charley raked &
hauled in three loads of Orchard grass. I worked all day mending over at the Barn. Made the
Grape Pen up again.
Friday 19
[Temp. 61, 78, 65]
Del & Jul. went to Picknick. Harrison came out in Buss. Var. looked a little like rain this
evening but its all gone. Charley cut the rest of the orchard grass & stuck Peas. He stole $45 out
of my closet. I [?] & made him give up all he took, but my watch is all to pieces. Clear.
Saturday 20
[Temp. 60, 76, 61]
Ed came out in Buss, not at all well. Rained a little about daylight. Remained cloudy the rest of
the day. Jul Del Hanson & I went to a Picinc near Milford in[?] Gatches woods & enjoyeed it
very much. Charley hoed Corn all day I suppose. Cloudy.
[Page 58]
[note written above the date] Wrote To Hammond advice.
�Sunday, June 21, 1863
[Temp. 56, 76, 59]
Conklins called & took wine [?]. Var. very cool all sitting by the fire this morning. I had a
pretty good [?]. Hanson & Del took a walk through the O & were delighted with appearances.
Emor called & we had a walk & talk. New Potatoes. Clear. Jul rode Prince.
Monday 22
[Temp. 54, 72, 62]
We all took tea at Conklin's. He left. Var. very cool and fine breeze all day. Charley began
ploughing Corn near the woods then raked up the Hay that was [?]. I worked all day at one thing
or other grafted apples & budded Roses. Clouds.
Tuesday 23
[Temp. 58, 78, 66]
Ed left. We had Princes forefeet shot[?]. Var. Looked vry much like rain but none yet. C
ploughed Corn and hauled in Hay. I hoed & wed all about reframed the Kitchen roof --- Stuck
Peas. Prince got out & played smash. Got a new Girl Letitia Davis. Cloudy.
[Page 59]
Wednesday, June 24, 1863
[Temp. 60, 72, 60]
Var. Cloudy most of the day. Looked like rain but it turned cool & got cooler. Charley
ploughed Corn all day. I turned the Shed roof & repaired the Barn. Spliced the back piece.
Hoed. Planted beans.
Thursday 25
[Temp. 55, 72, 66]
Jul & I went to Rice's and got Lard. Var. Cool all day. Some signs of rain which we need very
much. Charley ploughed & hoed corn. I cleaned the weeds out of the Blackberries & did some
day jobs. Very cloudy.
Frdiay 26
[Temp. 65, 70, 68]
Girls rode the horses to [?]. Very close. Rained in the night & pretty hard today giving the
Ground a good soaking. G ploughed & harrowed a [?] of the pond hill. Got seed potatoes of
Ms. Teal & ploughed some. I did nothing. Horsesborke the fence & got out twice. I got a post
in but the rain shoo[?] me in. Cloudy.
[Page 60]
�[note written above the date] Ed & Harrison came out.
Saturday, June 27, 1863
[Temp. 65, 76, 71]
First Raspberries. Var. rained a little but none to hurt. Charley pluoghed & harrowed & planted
some Potatoes on the Barn hill & ploughed the Currant [?]. Mend barn fence, budded roses &c.
Horrors all day. Cloudy.
Sunday 28
[see symbol]
[Temp. 70, 78, 70]
Conklins called after tea. Girl left. Var. Showery oppressively. Not sun calcuated to bring on
the rot in grapes. rust in oak & wheat [?]. I was around some. Tanned & plached Kitchen &
woodhouse roof & put out Tomatoes in the Potatoe hills. Raining.
Monday 28
[Temp. 70, 83, 75]
Peas. Del & Harrison left. Ed went with [written above] "Conklin." Rained very hard in the
night. Var. all day. Charley planted Potatoes back of the Barn. I planted a few in the S.P. hills.
Tarred roof and patched. Made sick by it. Put out Tomatoes. Sent for 10 bush Corn to Martins.
65 [?] Buss.
[Page 61]
Tuesday, June 30, 1863
[Temp. 69, 82, 74]
Del got home from town. Var. very hot not [?] breeze. G. ploughed Sty[?] [?]
[underlined}{Corn} & Sorghum & old nursery corn. Hoed out Blackberries &c. I was not at all
well no sleep with Lou who has had fever two days from eating green fruit. Clear.
Wednesday, July 1
[see symbol]
[Temp. 70, 85, 73]
Conklins borrowed our Buggy. Var. a few drops of Rain fell about dark. Very hot. Lou's fever
continues & is very distressing. Sent for Denis who left Calomel I gave him oil but has not [?]
yet. I hoed & wed, trimmed gate arch. Warmer.
Thursday 2
[Temp. 70, 86, 74]
Got a splendid letter from Kate at. Var., a little shower in the night. Ver hot in the sun.
Unbearable. C mowed grass in the orch & cut some Brians in the hollow behind the barn. Ms.
�D did a large wash. I loafed considerably. Took a splendid bath in the creek. Clear. Lou is
better.
[Page 62]
[note written above the date] Lou out of danger. Fever gone.
Friday, July 3, 1863.
[Temp. 70, 88, 70]
Ed. came up with Conklin. Var. Shower at sun down. Girlswent to Markleys after cherries but
they had not picked them. C. hoed between Dwarf Pears. Shocked up hay & sawed wood. I
mended the well curb & busy all day.
[note written above the date]
Lou sick again.
Saturday 4
[Temp. 71, 83, 72]
Harrison came in Buss. Brot Fireworks. Var. Showered in the night. Very wet nearly all day,
rather a poor 4th. Charley left in the Buss & sent me word back that he had enlisted; a very
unfortunate circumstance. We had a grand display of Fireworks. Clear.
Sunday 5
[Temp. 70, 84, 74]
Ms. Kennedy walked over. Var. Splendid day. Very hazy dew. I had Charley work to do which
was very hard on the old Fogie but I suppose it must be did. I tramped about considerably.
Found the Jannet much fuller than I expected. Too many by [?]. Clear.
[Page 63]br>
Monday 6, 1863
[see symbol]
[Temp. 70, 85, 73]
Harrison left in the Buss. Var. very warm all day. Ed & I went to Plainville in the Buggy &
from there we took the cars to town. I tried to hunt up Charley but found he had left. I tried to
sell my brandy but could not succeed. Cloudy.
Tuesday 7
[Temp. 70, 82, 75]
Good news about the war.var. rained after noon & [?] the Haycock I had opened to dry from a
previous wetting. I barely had time to put up two, got sprinkled in the operation. I hoed & wed
all the forenoon. Began trimming a Cedar near the front door. Cloudy.
Wednesday 8
[Temp. 70, 82, 74]
�I wrote to Ball. Del wrote to Kate. Var. The sun was scorching hot but there was a nice breeze.
I hoed melons &c. afternoon. Lou & I hauled in two load of Hay which used me up entirely.
Sampson came to get John to go to town with berries. Clear. Well bucket broke.
[Page 64]
[note written above the date]
Dean Johnson took the fruit to town
Thursday, July 9, 1863
Ms. Sturgis raised a sour. We all picked a bushel & peck of Currant. Var. Smokey or hazy very
hot about noon & during the afternoon. I picked Madeline Pears the same day as last year. Bob
Dickinson began today. Lou & he picked Little Muscl. Cloudy.
Friday 10
[Temp. 68, 80, 72]
Contraband Jim came on Buss last night. Cloudy & Smokey all day. Heat oppression at noon.
Jim I sent him to wkr hauling wood & ploughing Corn & Potatoes. Bob hoed Cabbages & Sweet
Pota. I trimmed Cedar & cut one down in front. Dean got back . Lou too [took?] wheat to mill.
Smokey.
Saturday 11
[Temp. 68, 80, 70]
Harrison came out. Letter from Kate. Heavy Fogg, cloudy all day much and has been for some
days. Jim ploughed near the woods then fooled away the rest of the day with Bob. I worked at
the Barnyard Gates nearly all day. Cut grass and cleaned up generally. Cloudy.
[Page 65]
[note written above the date]
Very cool all day Latitia came back.
Sunday, July 12, 1863
[Temp. 70, 70, 66]
Sallie & D took dinner with us. Cloudy. Foggy & Smokey all day. I tinkered best part of the
day. Cut a forest of young Aulanithus down in the Raspberry patch. Walked around topped
Peach trees. Lou took the Buggy with Sallie & D to with amsville & left it there soon[?].
Smoky.
Monday 13
[Temp. 62, 68, 66]Very cool all day. Had fire in the. Same cloudy smokey sky. Misted most of
the day. Jim ploughed corn near the wood. I wrote a long letter to Hammond. Their men did
�latch up little gate which Tom broke & got out let the cow out. Spoill my seedling strawberry.
Cloudy.
Tuesday 14
[Temp. 66, 76, 66]
Ed walked up from Columbia. Var still smokey & cloudy but the sun shone a little the first time
in six days. Jim ploughed Corn but the Morgan Scare stopped all work & there was very little
done. I was under the weath[er]. Trimmed cedars & hoed melons. Lou & Bob hooked up
Buggy apples. Cloudy.
[Page 66]
[note written above the text] Toe tied tom & Prince in the woods. No mail, Morgan stole
Cleveland's horse. Var. cool & pleasant all day. Calvary from Tennessee & Kentucky passing
nearly all day. We gave them bread & butter & apples. Could not keep the boys at work for too
long. Horses compressed all along the road. Cloudy wind.
Thursday 16
[Temp. 62, 71, 68]
Prince is out. Buss stopped running. Var. Still shown today nearly clear very cool. They
picked up apples, got up six barrels of strawberries. Harvest, Red, Sheaks, Benonis & Astracan
Bough &c. I did a snended[?] The Porch Hoor & fixed the apples. Clear. Quarrel[?]
Friday 17
[Temp. 52, 71, 62]
Violent pain in my side. Ed left. Var. just such a day as yesterday. Dean Johnson kept here &
loaded up & started at 3 AM. He got back at about 3 P.M. Sold the apples at $1[.]50 for barrels.
Boys picked Currants the last & reaped some wheat. I fixed big Barn Gale post. Prince out all
night.
[Page 67]
Saturday, July 18, 1863
[Temp. Harrison came. Bus went down. Var. very cool this morning. Very hot in the middle of
the day. Jim shocked the wheat which they all cut, he cutsome Brians & wed Strawberries. I
was sick with pain in the side &c. Made 10 qrts Currant wine.
Sunday 19
Frist Blackberries. Duchess of Oldenburg [?]. Var. Clear most of the day & very hot sun. I
loafed about mosto f the day. Read & slept. I am very weak & good for nothing. Horrors for
several days first in great pain one way or other.
Monday 20
�[70, 88, 74]
My proposition to make peace repulsed. Var. very hot in the middle of the day, after a deal of
distant thunder we had a hard shower after which we had several small ones. Jim mowed
Timothy in in [repeated word] spots. Boys picked up apples. The rain stopped them. Cloudy.
[Page 68]
[note written above the date]
Del and Jul left for town with Conklin.
Tuesday, July 21, 1863
Dean came over and loaded up. Var. misted al night but ltitle rain fell. Boys got up with my
assistance 6 Barrels of Apples. One basket. Ms. Dickinson picked a [?] Goosberries. I hoed the
Melons & did sun dry other things. Cloudy.
Wednesday 22
Dean went to town with apples & gooseberries. Var. Cloudy most of the day. Jim worked. Cut
Strawberries & raked up some hay. Boys hoed sweet Potatoes &c. wed Berries. I fixed Gate
Post to the Pasture. I fixed Pasture fence. Lou took Curtains to with amsvilel on Prince. No
cow.
Thursday 23
[Temp. 60, 84, 68]
Jul & Del got home with Coknlin. Va.r very hot in the afternoon. I made them hoe the late
Potatoes. Jim cut at Brians & Bob wed at Strawberries. I was tormented to death watching
them. I cut suckers out of the front orchard & busy all day clouds. Cows got in.
[Page 69]
[note written above the date]
I never fasted so long before
Friday 24
[Temp. 64, 89, 77]
Var. & hot to the killing point. Jim gathered apples & boys all together picked up about one &
half Barrels. I drove Prince in the wagon down to Carmel & had wagon & plough fixed. Ms.
Conklin & she took a ride of about 70 miles[?]. Cloudy.
Saturday 25
[Temp. 76, 80, 68]
�Jim hauled in the wheat [?] shock. Var. One shower at 8 AM after hard one at 3 PM. Ms.
Dickinson & Lola hoed corn near the woods. Jim and Bob pretended I did nothing but follow
them up. Mended a basket handle. Trimmed some. Clear.
Sunday 26
[Temp. 71, 86, 72]
Var. Splendid day. Hot in the morning. Jul Del Pearl & I went over & spent the day at
Williamsons. We took wheat to mill & had it ground 20 Bushels. We had a pleasant time &
delightful ride home. Cloudy.
[Page 70]
Monday, July 27, 1863
[see symbol]
[Temp. 64, 78, 66]
Var. A little cooler since the rain. Viola & Kathie hoed corn all day. Ms. D washed. Bob cut
his finger & could not work. Lou Jim & I got up the load. 2 Benonis 2 Strawberry 1 Red Sheak
& mixed Basket of Pears. Clear.
Tuesday 28
{Temp. 58, 78, 66]
3rd load pears. Dean went to town with apples. Var. Cool pleasant same as yesterday. Ole Ms.
Dickinson & Lolitia went to hunt Blackberries but got very few. Jim hoed some. I picked 3 qrts
of Berries on the hill. I took up a US Mare & Mule & somebody colt & done know what to do
with them. Clear.
Wednesday 29
[Temp. 59, 84, 78]We started for Withamswille. Var. Fine but very warm at noon. Cool night.
Jim & Dickinson girls hoed corn. I mended in wod bed. Jim hauled a load out of Ms. Bowoods
& one load for Ms Dickinson. Jul, Ms Conklin, Prince & I on the new colt. She reared & fell on
her back & nearly broke my back, broke the Bridle.
[Page 71]
[note written above the date]
Bloodyoods & B of Bruscelli[?] this afternoon.
Thursday 30
[Temp. 58, 79, 71]
I sent Pears down by Buss & Picked the rest. Rained splendidly most of the night. Fine day,
after the rain. Jim & I mended the front fence where the mule & all the horses got out. We got
Prince & the Colt which moved to be McGuires. We got the mail[?] this evening the mule
following. I make Jim him him[?] out.
�Friday 31
[Temp. 76, 85, 72]
I sent 5 buckets of Pears by Buss to Peterson. Var. splendid day rained finely after dinner.
Dickinsons hoed in the forenoon. Jim hoed. C plough with the mare but she would not work.
He tried her in the wagon. She worked but too fast. Boys picked up apples. I picked Peasrs
Juliennes.
Saturday, August 1
[see smybol]
[Temp. 66, 85, 72]
Ed came with Conklin. Harrison in Buss. Var. Splendid day very hot at noon. Dean went with
the 4th Load, 5 Barrels. Sent 18 reviums[?] & 6 Hydraneas to Heaver. Jim mowed weeds in
P.O. & picked B. Berries. I soldered load Strawberries &c. Jul rode the Morgan Marc[?] to
Depot, much pleased with her. Clear.
[Page 72]
Looked like rain alone times.
Sunday, August 2, 1863
[Temp. 68, 88, 73]
Ms. Kennedy walked over. Var. very hot & oppressive in the afternoon. I went around this
forenoon and lookd at things & then again with John who called after dinner just as I was going
to write to Kate. Felt rather dull today. Clear.
Monday 3
[Temp. 68, 86, 75]
Var. very hot again today. Dickinsons hoed corn all day. Lou & Bob picked up apples. Jim
threshed out the wheat with a flail. Lou took Ms. K home and brought bakc Sallie & D. I did
nothing but write to Kate. Cloudy.
Tuesday 4
[Temp. 72, 86, 70]
Tom Kane & another fellow came after the mare. Var. we had a nice little rain. Jim & I picked
the Julienne Pears. Lou & Bob picked Apples 5 Barrels, they then began picking Dearborns
which are over ripe. D went to Bowers & got a Keg of Beer we left it & had some. John Lane
claims the mare.
[Page 73]
Wednesday, August 5, 1863
�[Temp. 72, 80, 74]
Jim took D & Sallie home with the Mare. Var. Another fine shower today. Several during the
day. Jim & B sawed wood, gathered about 1/2 bush Dearborns. Bob hoed Cabbage & Dwarf
Pears. I could not be out much. Mended big gate latch & did undry other thing. Cloudy.
Thursday 6
[Temp. 70, 84, 70]
Jul went to town in Buss. Sent $50 to George. Var. Splendid day after the rain. Jim & Bob
hoed King Philip Corn. Lou picked berries. I fixed big gate again. Sent 2 Baskets Dearborns to
town Buss he got $1.25 pr basket. I keep me busy overseeing. Clouds.
Friday 7
[Temp. 70, 84, 76]
Var. We had high wind & severe Thunder afternoon but no Rain although it looked very much
like it. Lou took wagon & had Spring mended & Tom shod[?]. Byos picked up apples. I
followed up. Made them cut Chapral down by the old nursery. Cloudy.
[Page 74]
[note written above the date]
Harrison came in Buss. Peaches.
Saturday, August 8, 1863
[Temp. 74, 86, 76]
Julia came home with Conklin. Var. hot at noon as usual. Jim & Bob finished cutting Chaparal
then hoed in the sweet Potatoes. Piece around the Pears. I was busy. Two men authorized came
& took the Mare. I had a hot walk up to John Lanes. Coughed nearly all the evening. Clouds.
Sunday 9
[Temp. 74, 89, 79]
Ms. K. walked over the evening. Var. very hot the hottest day in the season; I did some weeding
in my Flower garden & walked over the orchard twice, once with Harrison & Del they were [?]
the quantity of apples, someone stole all the [?] berries.
Monday 10
[Temp. 70, 89, 74]
I drank beer all day in place of water. Var. Thunder & signs of Rain but only a drizzle. Jim &
Lou & I picked up the load of apples. Bob got sick. Hogs got in & bore and eat up nearly all our
lake Potatoes including my fine new seedling. I hard time fixing the fence. Clear.
[Page 75]
�Tuesday, August 11, 1863
Cranberry. Hogs played smash. Var. Very hot, but fine breeze. Splendid Thundershower
afternoon. Boys pciked up apples & [?] weeds. Dean took 1[?] Barrels 6 load 6 market. I
discovered that the Hogs have destroyed all our Potatoes. I did nothing but loaf. Cloudy.
Wednesday 12
[see symbol]
[Temp. 64, 80, 68]Jul & Ms C took a ride. Var. Splendid day after the rain nearly the whole day.
Consumed in his [?] the infernal hogs they were finishing the Potatoes & beginning on the corn.
There are two in yet. They got up some apples & cut a few weeds. Clear. I picked a bushel
Bannalis for Kane.
Thursday 13
[Temp. 64, 84, 72]
Ms. Williamson & Ms Bond spent the day with us. Frist Corn. Var. fine day. We had two more
Hog hunts. They broke in twice & there is me in now. They picked up apples. I washed some
which made me sick. I had a hot fever at noon lasted all the afternoon. I had hard work to get up
[?] Barrels. Clear.
[Page 76]
[note written above the date]
7[?] load.
Friday, August 14, 1863
[Temp. 64, 84, 72]
Del & Ms. K canned Peaches. Var. Splendid weather for growing. Jim & Bob cut Briar &
weeds. Dean took six bushels of apples to market. Sold two. Lou gone to Williamsville on
Prince. I fixed the cast & front gate handle. Clear. First Citron Melons.
Satuday 15
[see symbol]
[Temp. 70, 87, 72]
Del & Jul went & met Ed in Roseville. Var. very warm no breeze. Jim mowed Briars & Bob cut
the Raspberries front of the [?] door. Bob hoed potatoes on the Barn hill. I worked all day.
They canned Peaches & Tomatoes. Lou went to Mill on Tom got one Blush ground. Cloudy.
Sunday 16
[Temp. 70, 74, 74]
First Water Melons. Cloudy. Splendid Shower with distant Thunder after dinner. I walked
down & looked at the Corn. Found that the Coons were destroying it badly. Tied Carlo down
there tonight. Too wel to go out after the rain. Cloudy.
�[Page 77]
[note written above the date]
Del canned Peaches.
Monday, August 17, 1863
[Temp. 64, 83, 79]
Ms. K went to Sallies on Tom & back. Var. Sun at noon. Very hot. Signs of rain. Boys picked
up some apples and some pears. I hoed a little in side & [?] path. Julia & Ms. K. canned 12 cans
of Peaches. I was busy all day. We had Lima Beans today. Cloudy.
Tuesday 18
[Temp. 62, 84, 72]
Jul & Ms. C. gone on Prince & Tom to C. Var. just such a day as yesterday. Boys Jim & Lou
finished getting Six Barrels of Apples, two baskets of Lowels & two of Peaches & one of Pears.
I was awake all night with Lou, felt bad all day. Del went to town in Ms Leals Buggy. Two best
melons stole last night. Clear.
Wednesday 19
[Temp. 62, 87, 72]
Del & Jul took [?] Mrs. Teal. Var. very hot today at noon. Jim pretended to hoe potatoes under
ash tree. I was on the hots all day. Dean took in apples 6 Barrels 2 basket of[?] peaches one of
pears. Lou took oil cloth over to Willamsville. Coons & Hawks taking the chickens. Clear.
[Page 78]
Thursday, August 20, 1863
[Temp. 64, 88, 73]
Sent Ms. Bond some Peaches by Buss. Var. warm in the middle of the day. Jim had two shells
at at [repeated word] the Pasture fencebut Prince would not get out. He picked up Apples &
Peaches. Ms. K. picked for Ms. Dickinson one bushel. I was busy all day. Tired out
completely. Clouds.
Fridy 21
[Temp. 66, 87, 74]
Very tired tonight. [?] played hell last night. Var. hot again in the middle of the day. They all
gathered apples. Picked two barrels maidens blush 6 barrels & half 2 baskets Peaches one of
Bartletts the first of the season. I sorted apples all day. Made a new Block but [?] all day.
Clouds.
[Page 79]
�[note written above the date]
Harrison brot up two fine melons
Sunday, August 23, 1863
[Temp. 70, 86, 76]
Conklin called this evening. Va.r very hot about 2 P.M. Harrison & Del went to Camp Meeting.
Twice I walked over the place & found a great many apples down. Del concluded not to go
home for a couple fo weeks yet.
Monday 23
[Temp. 74, 72, 68]
Harrison left in Buss. Ed footed it from Rockhill. Var. We had a fine thunder shower about 3
P.M. Rained hard. Lou took the wagon down to have the spring mended. Jim picked up apples.
Sorted some. Del Jul & I rode to the gate with Prince in the wagon. He went well. Cloudy.
Tuesday 25
[see symbol]
[Temp. 56, 64, 58]
Rained a little this morning. Out to Bull. Cow laid.Cloudy all day and so coold that we had to
make fire in the Parlour all day. Boys picked up apples all day. I picked up pears & made them
Baskets out of Peaches. A dead Buck fell on the Rome Beauty on the road. I worked hard to get
up the load. Jul canned Peaches.
[Page 80]
Wednesday, August 26, 1863
[see symbol]
[Temp. 48, 70, 52]
We took two on Conklins. Ms. C sick. Va.r Coolest day or morning I ever know in August. We
had fire again all day. Dean took Apples Pears & Peaches. I mended fence which Prince broke
down & both gates. Dean got home before 2 P.M. Clear.
Thursday 27
[see symbol]
[Temp. 46, 70, 57]
Var. very cold again today. Jim Lou & Letitia got up the laod of apples. I went to Carmel got
Tom Shed & got 12 Bushels of Corn of Sammy Lanethen sorted apples & Peaches to Banch
Apples & 5 Bash Peaches.
Frdiay 28
[Temp. 59, 70, 58]
�Cloudy all day. Looked stormy. Rained just as Dean got home for 15 minutes. Jim cut brass in
the hollow. Lou went to Sallie's on Prince for the Buggy but did not get it. I went to town in
Buss to see about a Nigger, but did not suit myself. Cloudy. Missed the Buss but caught it.
[Page 81]
Harrison came. I sent Pears by Buss.
Saturday, August 29, 1863
[Temp. 56, 66, 49]
Jim picked up apples. Var. Rain in the night & a little just at daylight. Very cool all day. Dean
came over & helped me to fit the new Bows to the wagon. I picked two baskets of splendid
Bartletts. Lou took apples to Dairs & had a barrel of Cider. Clear & Cold.
Sunday 30
[Temp. 36, 63, 47]
Two Splendid. Var, very Codl, White Frost. Unprecedented weather for the season. Had to have
fire all day. Sweet Potatoes vines Cut Squashes &c. D[?] & Lilla spent the day with us. Mrs.
Teal called. I picked splendid Bartletts, was over the place. Clear & Cold.
Monday 31
[see symbol]
[Temp. 40, 64, 54]
I rode Prince down to Store for Eggs &c. Va.r Cool but splendid day. Boys haled one load of
wood from Keltmans woods. They pciked up apples, Made 6 barrels, loaded up the cider & 5 Br
apples 3 baskets. Splenddi Bartletts, 2 Bs. Peaches the last. I mased finger loading. Clear up.
[Page 82]
[note written above the date]
He drove Prince. Del & Jude packed up.
Tuesday, September 1, 1863
[Temp. 48, 80, 62]
Del brought the buggy home repaired. Var. very fine day turning warm again. Frost. Cut the
corn blades some. Mrs D & Letetia picked up apples before dinner. I went to Benniets & to
Mrs. Teals. Settled with her. Dean got home early. Johnson took al oad to Temples Cider Mill.
Clear.
Wednesday 2
[Temp. 48, 83, 70]
Jul left for Warren & Del left in wagon fr [for] home. Var. Warmer today getting back to the old
notch. They picked up apples. Ms. K picked some Peaches. I went to the Liberty Mill but
�found all dry. Had to go to Perrintown but they could not grind. I got 46th flower. Temple
could not make our cider. Bad cold & sore throat. Cloudy. S.
Thursday 3
[67, 76, 66]
Conklins mare Fanny died last night. Cloudy all day. Misted a little. Mrs. Lee, Tom & Lou
picked up apples. Lou took the apple from Temples to Davis. Mrs. K drove Prince to Batavia &
back in the Buggy & was pleased with him very much. I picked pears all day. Sent on Basket to
Gatte by the Buss.
[Page 83]
Friday, September 4, 1863
[Temp. 50, 75, 60]
I coughed terribly last night. Throat. Var. cool all day. Ms Ward, Ms Dickinson, Letitia picked
up apples all day. Jim & Lou, Ms. K picked up some. I picked Bartletts. Splnedid fellows.
Dean takes seven baskets to Gattie's & five barrels of apples. Dair failed to make the cider.
Clear.
Saturday 5
[Temp. 58, 83, 76]
Var. hotter day than it has been for some time. I made the boys hoe Sweet Potatoes & trim
hedge. I was sick but picked Bartletts all day off of the English Tree. Dean took 5 Bls. Apples
to town and 7 barrels apples to Gattie. Cloudy.
Sunday 6
[Temp. 64, 78, 68]
Ms. K drove Prince to Sallie's & bot Don back. Rained some in the night and pretty hard about
breakfast time. The boys pulled the wagon down & picked up another filled 5 barrels with
apples already picked up by the women. I was very unwell all the forenoon & afternoon. I
assorted 6 & 1/2 bushel Bartletts & Amalis. I made a frame to fit the box.
[Page 84]
Monday, September 7, 1863
[Temp. 64, 80, 70]
Lou went after cider & brot it & Barrel. Var. Comfortable today. I had not so much fever as
yesterday but a terrible coughing spell in the afternoon. Dean took 6 bsk Barletts to Gablr & 3
1/2 bushels Amalis to Peterson. Only got $1.50 bushel. Boys pulled up apples. I went to store
on Prince.
Tuesday 8
�[Temp. 64, 86, 76]
Arranged with Dair to make Brandy. Var. very little sun but oppressively hot. Threatening rain.
Distant thunder. I was very unwell but assorted five baskets of Bartletts. Butter & Stone. They
bid up apples. Get 5 in the wagon & 1 Bl Cider. I rode to Williamsville took measure fr [for]
Botors.
Wednesday 9
[Temp. 64, 68, 64]
Va.r Rained nearly all night. Dean could not get off until 5 A.M. then started in the rain. Cider
nearly all leaked out. Sold it for 6 cents for Gall. Boys & Lil picked up apples & Pears. I
mended baskets & picked up Pears. Cloudy & Cool.
[Page 85]
Thursday, September 10, 1863
[Temp. 58, 78, 68]
Var. Splendid day. Byos & Lit picked up apples & filled 7 Barrels. I picked up Pears &
Assorted three baskets 1 Butter & Butter 2 Louise Bonnes. Mended wagon made a seal for
Dean. Lou had Tom shod & hauled apples to Dair.
Friday 11
[Temp. 66, 86, 76]
Sent 3[?] Bsk Pear[?] to Gatti. Va.r pretty hot today. Ms. Dickinson pciked up paples all day.
Jim & Lou hauled & put in Barrels. I worked like a horse all day, used out.Completely managed
to sort out 2 Baskets of Pears. Dean had the best load of the season. I got the poorest prices.
Saturday 12
[see symbol
[Temp. 66, 66, 64]
I assorted all the Pears on the Porch. Var. Drizzled nearly all forenoon. Rained pretty hard after
dinner. Ms. Dickinson picked up apples all the forenoon. Jim took the wagon down & picked
out 5 Bls & ten bushels. Specked ones. Dean took 6 barrels apples & 2 Baskts Pears one to
Gath sold the other 17 load very poor sale. Cloudy.
[Page 86]
Sunday, September 13, 1863
[Temp. 62, 70, 61]
Conklin & McClellan called to see about [rest of sentence written above the date] McClellans
going with Dean.[?] Cloudy all day very heavy dew. I went out over the place & had damp feet
all day. Jim got up two barrels of apples making 8. I fixed one basket of Pears. I put a cork in
the Brandy and measured 10 Galls for Metz. Clear.
�Monday 14
[Temp. 58, 70, 64]
Dean took 8 barrels & 1 basket Pears home with him. L[?] came. Var. Pretty cool all day. Ms
Ward Him & Ms Kennedy picked up apples. Letitia pretended. I went to town. Buss broke
down on Rose Hill. Conklin & I walked to Plainville & took the cars. Went to Del's and dined,
bot a pair of wheels for $2 to make a cart. Clear.
Tuesday 15
Dean got home early & went after Sheaf oats. Var. Very warm today. Ms. D, Ms W. Ashurn
Bennet Jm & Lou picked up apples. I went on Prince to Engage Ms Teals mare for town tonight.
They got up the load [?]. I went to see Kilgour about making the Cart. Took salts and felt weak
all day. Clear.
[Page 87]
[Temp. 68, 78, 72]
We had Teals mare today. Var. Looked very much like rain fortunately it held off. Ms. K went
with Prince & Buggy to Tests. We then hauled with Fodder G Youn tied up a little & left. Jim
& Lou assorted 2 Barrels & filled 4 other. Foold time. I was mending baskets & assortnig Pears
all day.
Thursday 17
[Temp. 69, 77, 65]
Ms. K cut grass & wed rose bed. Var. looked rainy all day. Rained a little all the afternoon & is
pouring down pretty well now. Jim & lou got up 8 Barrels, Dean & Jim loaded. D got back at 5
PM today. We cannot Teals mare we cannot go. I mended Barrels & looked after them.
Raining hard.
Friday 18
[Temp. 54, 58, 48]
Metz sent for 15 bushels Cider Apple & Brandy his 10 Gale[?]. Rained nearly all night turned
cool & cold in the course of the day. Jim cut Briars & slept part of the time. Dean got off at 2
P.M. with 8 barrels & 2 Bushels of Peaches. I went to Mill Perrintown with Prince after the
Flour. He wokred splendidly in the Buggy, forded the river without hesitation.
[Page 88
Saturday, September 19, 1863
[Temp. 45, 50, 48]
Jake was grinding. Dean got back to supper. Var. Cloudy all day but about 5 minutes very cold
very much like frost. I did a cold job patching the rooves. Bennet, Jim & Lou picked up apples.
�I took old wheels &c. up to Kilgores to make the cart. Went to see Myers about Brandy. Saw
Jake. Cloudy.
Sunday 20
[Temp. 32, 60, 47]
John called & we went round some. Clear all day. Froze last night. Cut everything tender, even
Sorghum leaves. I fear it will stop the growth of late apples. Jannets not half grown. I hoed
Ships of old carpet[?] on the new Shed roof with Tar. I think it will do but I was too weak to go
on. Dean loaded up 8 barrels. Clear.
Monday 21
[Temp. 48, 71, 60]
Dean got home & loaded up New Ink[?] Var. Moderated considerably. Very pleasant today.
M.D. & Ward picked up apples only the good ones. Jim helped load 45 bush Brandy apples.
Lou made 3 loads. I worked all day. Made a light Ladder, mended Barrels &c. Engaged Malot
to work. Clear & Windy.
[Page 89]
[note written above the date]<Jim & Lou took apples to Davis & brot back Brandy
Tuesday, September 22, 1863[Temp. 48, 68, 52]
Dean got back early. Var. Turned cooler to day. Jim & Lou got up the load. Malott began
Totaling[?] Cor. I as usual busy. Finished a small basket begun by Millow. Drs Kline &
Chapman from Camp Dennison called to see about Shubbery for their place. Clear.
wednesday 23
[Temp. 41, 75, 60]
Drove Teal's mare. Dean took 8 Barrels, got home at 5 P.M. Var. pretty cool this morning.
Ward Dickenson & Bennet picked up apples all day. Made poor headway. I went to Kilgores &
had the cart finished. Got home by 1 P.M. Made iron corners & pruned nearly the whole of it.
Malot topped corn. Regt 4 Galls in my Klegg [?]. Clear.
Thursday 24
[Temp. 56, 78, 66]
I draw out 8 Galls Brandy & put it in first barrel. Var. A little thunder & 10 drops of rain this
evening. Jim & Lou got up the load 8 barrels. I mended Basket & finished pruning cast all but
the weels. Jim worked some on the roof. Dean got home at 5 P.M. Geo. Young began cutting
Briars along Conklins fence. 1 Letter from Jude. Cloudy.
[Page 90]
Friday, September 25, 1863
[Temp. 52, 60, 51]
�Var. Turned very cool in the night. Windy. N Jim Lou & Sturgis Boy & Girl picked up. A
Bennet & Bob began but quiet at one Barrel. I painted Cart box & wheels. Malot finishe [?] 4 &
a half days. Young Cut Briars. Sent one load to Davis. Dean got home at dusk.
Saturday 26
[Temp. 38, 63, 44]
Dr. Mets called & pd me for Adir[?] apples. Var. White frost this morning. Warm during the
day but alarming. Cold tonight. Hattie D. Sturgiss & sister picked up apples all day. Jim & Lou
picked up bad ones. I painted [text strikethrough]{bad ones} &c. Bob Ely called and got some
splendid specimens of apples to show at the Indiana State Fair.
Sunday 27
[Temp. 34, 71, 54]
Dean & Jim loaded up. Var. moderated towards noon. I painted new headblock & rims of
wagon wheels & front spring. Mended two baskets, Potted a rose, Mended Cart, walked over
orchard, Cut some Sorghum grass. Jim & Lou got the apples assorted. Clear.
[Page 91]
[note written above the date]
Overdid myself today.
Monday, September 28, 1863
[Temp. 44, 80, 60]
Dean took 8 barrels. Man called to see sugar. Var. Warmer than yesterday. Carter girl & Stur
girls, 1 Dickinson picked up apples, Jim oversaw & loaded bushels for Metz. I picked up some
& assorted, Jim got up 4 barrels. Ms K cut & trimmed Isabella grapes. I cleaned up barn, took
down Press & patched straw. Clear.
Tuesday 29
[Temp. 50, 80, 62]
Dean brought out 200 feet of Lumber. Splendid clear day just right for work. Girls & John
picvked belleflowers all forenoon. Just after dinner John got up the load. Shadoan Sallie &
Leila came over & shook down Broadwells & Talmans for Cider. I mended mended[repeated
word] & picked Capieumont[?] Clear. He left after dinner[?]
Wednesday 30
[Temp. 54, 80, 63]
D drove Prince to Perrintown & back before dinner. Var. Cloudy nearly all day. Jim Salie Rose
Leita & I got up the load. Dean did not get off until after breakfast. Ducket called in the night
but could not wake. Dean, I cleaned up Barn & mended what the Mare broke. She eat half our
shirts up. Cloudy.
�[Page 92]
[note written above the date]
Could not get up the load today.
Thursday, October 1, 1863
Spring broke for the 4 time. Var. Musted at daylight & continued with steady rain all evening
during the intervals. Boys picked up apples, John Sturigs picked one band. Dean had a bad day
of it. I mended basket, painted plough, filed saw & cleaned up tool shelf. Raining steady.
Friday 2
[Temp. 50, 66, 50]
Ed & Jul got home from Warren. Var. Turned cool towards night. Jim Sturgis Frank & Lou
picked up apples. Dean went after corn. I rode Lone to Blacksmiths & had his shoes pulled off
he being used up for work for some time. Tarred the roof. Assorted 2 bskt Pears. Clear.
Saturday 3
[see symbol]
[Temp. 44, 73, 50]
Dean got home to supper. Var. trimmed a little cool after the rain. Windy towards evening.
Blew down the fruit terribly. Strugis boys picked all day. Jerin[?] got up [?] for Davis then
assorted the load & got it up. I & Jim hauled load of wood with Prince. Un[?] apples & sorted
Pears.
[Page 93]
[note written above the date]
Polly went Bull again.
Sunday, October 4, 1863
[Temp. 46, 48, 42]
Jude & I went to Conklins after supper. Cloudy all day turned very cold & raw. Ed & I walked
around the orchard. I repaired & cleaned out my Pit & potted & put nearly all the Flowers down.
Sent everywhere to get a horse but without success. Finally got Teal's mare. Cloudy.
Monday 5
[Temp. 40, 47, 42]
Dean started at 1 P.M. Prince hauled Cart into the Barn full. Cloudy all day very raw for the
season. I am dreading snow tonight. Jim got up 15 bush apples for Metz took Ms. Ks apples to
Davis & obe load for us. Fourhand picked besdies Ed who picked 10 bush Belleflowers off the
trees. Hard work, we put 12 Bushels in the cart. Dean got back at 2 P.M.
�Tuesday 6
Shadean was here twice on horseback. Var. very little sunshine the first for four days.
Moderated some. Four pickers with Ed picked Belleflowers all day I was busy as a bee. Ms K
took Prince to Davis & got 2 Bls Cider to Williamsville & sold one barrel & some gallons & 3 &
1/2 bushels apples. Jim hauled up a cartload of Belleflowers. Cloudy.
[Page 94]
WEdnesday, October 7, 1863
[Temp. 45, 52, 44]
Rained nearly all night and all the forenoon. Jim sawed some wood & got up 8 barrels apples for
Kyle whilst I was gone to West Walkers on Prince to buy a horse. I brought them & led them
home, had a hard ride. Rained hard whilst I was at Walkers. Cloud & Cold.
Thursday 8
[Temp. 38, 57, 50]
Dean got off at 2 with a splendid load. Var. cloudy nearly all day. Moderated, Jim undertook to
haul wood with new house but disaster slopping & the wagon broke down. Tom got into the
stable & made Charley kick everything to pieces. It took me all afternoon to mend it. [?]
mended wagon. They began picking Payons Red.
Friday 9
Var. Splendid day for work. Jim, Ed, Jul & Ms. K picked Payons red apples all day. Put them in
the barn. I fixed the Bin, made legs to a ladder I made yesterday. Dean got back at 4 P.M. Did
a poor business for standing in market. Goes again, tonight. Clear.
[Page 95]
[note written above the date]
Thunder tonight.
Saturday, October 10, 1863
[Temp. 36, 46, 38]
Buss left me, came with Conklin. Took [written above] tea at his brothers. Very foggy this
morning, raw. I went to town in the Buss, took fruit to the society, went to Del's, found Harry
very sick witth Scarlett Fever, settled work. Cattie who checked me out of about & Dean got
home seven. Pickers today. Julia & Ms. K went to town in Buggy to see Harry who is very sick
last night. Clear & cold.
Sunday 11
[Temp. 42, 58, 42]
Ms. K & Jude came home fr town, where he went. Clear all day. Froze hard. Ice in tub. Ed got
up and assorted 8 Brls Belleflowers for Peterson. Worked more or less as much a[s] my Boil
would allow. Harrison & family brought on their little Kamp in their Coffis[?]. Jenny Randolph.
�Monday 12
My Boil disables me the sle[e]pless nights interms. Var. very white frost no ice. Many
neighbors came to see little Harry buried. Young Ducket dug the grave. Six pickers today. Ed
sorted most of the load. Jim & Lou got 10 doz oats. Pele Jones & wife came Shadoan & Sallie.
D walked home. Raining Harrison took Colman to Rose Mill.
[Page 96]
A Basket of Napoleons
Tuesday, October 13, 1863
[Temp. 52, 60, 54]
I make a new Picker of Ash & fixed Rained a little in the night & drizzled this morning. Ed & I
went down & voled. Ed & Jim picked Splendid Belleflowers & Ed got up the load he worked
wist on stopping until dark. I was notable. Got about much b Boil busted. Is better. Clear.
Wednesday 14
[Temp. 50, 72, 46]Kyle came to seee about apples. Man got 15 bushels. Var. Splendid day.
Dean went to town with Charley again. Ed picked & assorted & hauled up apples all day. Julia
tured out & pushed up The Kers of which their were four. I was all moving mending Wagon
Box. Clear.
Thursday 15
[Temp. 57, 72, 66]
Var. Very splendid warm. Six pickers today. Jude worked hard & superintended. I was busy &
suffering all day. Put white Peppers & Pennocks in the Barn. Bob Kyle styler. Bob got 6
Barrels at 150. Ed got up the whole load. Metz got 15 bushels & 2 [?]
[Page 97]
[Note written above the date]
Friday, October 16, 1863
[Temp. 57, 72, 60]
John came to engage Cider Apples. Va.r Slight rain jsut at breakfast time. Stopped work for a
short time. Ed got up the load. 2 Drawers Magnificient Shys onto two pickers. I suffered
awfully. They picked Smiths. Cider in the Barn. Dean got back at dusk. Clear.
Saturday 17
[Temp. 53, 73, 70]
Kate came home tonight. Splendid day. Seven Pickers today. Ed & Jul worked hard all day &
made the others work. Lou & Jim took the loads Cider Apples to Dairs for John. I was laid up
but had to go out & attend Drs. Chapman & Kline to dig shubbery for Camp Dennis. Clear.
�Sunday 18
[Temp. 59, 73, 40]
Two men enagaed 36 brush Cider Apples. Var. Rained in the night. Splendid day. Ed & Jim
loaded up & Ed & Lou started to market about 1/2 past 12. I walked down to cornfield to get
corn for the Pigs. Jim took Ms. K home in the cart. Mr. & Mrs. Conklin called. Clouds.
Turned quite cold.
[Page 98]
[note written above the date]
Lou went with Ed.
Monday, October 19, 1863
[Temp. 36, 60, 45]
Ed & Jim loaded up 6 Barrels. Var. very fine day nearly [?] 4 Pickers Kyle & Sturgis. I was
busy all day. My Boil much better. I mended hand Cart & bushed the cart wheel. Jul worked
with the Pickers. Ed went to market yesterday & got back about 4 today. Clear.
Tuesday 20
[Temp. 44, 70, 61]
Put Rome beauties in the Barn. Var. Indian summer weather. I was on foot all day. Fixed a
fastening to the Barn doors. 5 Pickers today. Ed got up the load alone [?] up Sorhum. Jim
bladed Sugar Cane, Jul bossed the girls & worked. Drizzling.
Wednesday 21
[Temp. 40, 58, 47]
Dean just got home 8 P.M. Dull sale. Var. Splendid day for work. One Picker. Ed got up 7
Barrels alone, Jul picked, Prince hauled up six loads in the Cart. Men got 30 bushels cider
apples at 20 cents. I mended Basket, picked a barrel. Jul phockens cleaned out the apple house.
Clear.
[Page 99]
[note written above the date]
Lou took apples to Davis (Indian Summer) for cider.
Thursday, October 22, 1863
Dean got back at 7:15. Var. very cool almost frost. Ed assorted the load seven. We got up the
Smiths Cider & I picked nearly a barrel of Splendid Pecks Pleasants. Geo Young worked 3
hours cutting Sorghum & Foddes he got Cider apples & some for Apple Butter.
�Friday 23
[Temp. 43, 40, 34]
Jim hauled three loads of wood. Var. rained all night, it prevented Deans going to market.
Drizzled nearly all day. Grew colder. Very raw. I got up a band Tellighockens[?]. Two men
got 12 bushels cider apples at 25 pr bushel. Cider tonight than it has been yet at look squally.
Cloudy.
Saturday 24
[Temp. 28, 44, 32]
Baldwin got 10 bushels apples. Var. cold & cloudy all day. Froze hard last night. Appls
suffered some but a adieu to them tonight. Ed Jon Lou & Elmore got up Jannets into apple
house. I picked all the Pears. Took up flower & put in the Pit. Put on sash, mended step,ladder
& did a hundred other things. Dean made out poor. Cloudy. Freezing.
[Page 100]
Sunday, October 25, 1863
[Temp. 28, 50, 40]
Var. very cool. Hard forst. We loafed today. I picked Pecks. Pleasant in OPO. Gibbons all
came out and spent the day which broke into our arrangment. I took up five Roses for Kate. Ms.
C & Ms Sampson this evening. Clear.
Monday 26
[Temp. 33, 30, 43]
Kate left for town on her wayhorse. Var. Cloudy most of the day. Mackerel by two pickers
today. They got in three loads of Jannets. I cleared out the wheat bin & pulled at fruit, Ed & I
got up the load. I huusked Bushel of Corn. Mr Baker got got 15 B. cider apples & 13 B. good
ones. Clouds.
Tuesday 27
[see symbol]
[Temp. 34, 52, 39]
Lou went with Dean at 12, dear little fellow. Clear, Splendid day. White frost. Two pickers
today. They finished the Jannets & got them in the barn all but the small ones. I picked Shys
Romebeanbys & Smiths Cider Red Russets very fine. Husked corn fixed Bin. Clear. (Perhaps I
shall [?] Lou again)
[Page 101]
Wednesday, October 28, 1863
[Temp. 27, 54, 37]
�I walked to Lane's and got him to agree to make on molasses. Var. Hazy most of the day, very
hard freeze. Hurt the apples considerably. Two pickers began getting in Romantis. Ed loaded &
hauled 50 bushels Jannets to Davis for Johns Cider. I mended BM fence and worked hard all
day, husked corn &c. Clear.
Thursday 29
[Temp. 38, 68, 58]
Sent Sugar Cane to Lanes. A man got 21 bushels apples $14.50. Rained a little tihs morning but
soon cleared up & became a splendid day. Ms Blanchard borrowed the Buggy for the day. Ed
got up six barrels & started for twon at 2 P.M. D Durham called to see about his bees. Clear &
warm.
Friday 30
[Temp. 52, 58, 54]
Burried Cabbage yesterday. Fixed Bell. Began raining at 4 A.M. & continued nearly all day &
still raining. Ed had an awful time with his load. Got soaking wet. Kate has been dangerously
sick. I wrote to Hammond today. Was not told much. Jim cleared out mad & I am afraid he is
gone for good. Raining. [Page 102]
[note written above the date]
Jim went to Lanes for Sorghum. 59 all[?].
Saturday, October 31, 1863
[Temp. 52, 48, 34]
Jul left for town with Conklin. Cloudy & misty all day turning cold very rappidly. I have laid up
all day with Boil No 2 suffering excruciating pain. Ed got up apples towards the load. I
managed to get dinner under difficulms. Cloudy.
Sunday, November 1, 1863
Moderated. Old Clark came to see about apples. Var. Very fine day. I get the meals today
suffering intensely while so engaged. I made splendid Soup Bread Pudding & Tulpyhocker
apple sauce, that is about all that was done except feeding. I brought up corn & dried it in the
oven. Clear.
Monday 2
[Temp. 44, 71, 69]
Var. Moderated considerably except a hard rain before morning. Ed & Elmore picked up the cart
loads. Newtowns besides small ones. I got the meals, put 2 iron hoofs on contraband & put in
time, husked corn, raked 4 cartloads of leaves for the pigpen & leathered Rub blocks. Clear.
[Page 103]
�Tuesday, November 3, 1863
[Temp. 48, 56, 42]
Dean took 7 bls to town. Var. Rained a little most of the night. Cleared off & turned out fine.
Ed picked up Newtowns all day. Made up six barrels for the load. I some left in the cart. I did
house work, churned, mended well & milk bucket with all very lame. Clear & cool.
Wednesday 4
[Temp. 38, 65, 60]
Rumaway not got back yet. Var. Moderated again. Splendid day. Four pickers today & the last
I suppose, all the Romanites & considerable gleaning done. Ed made up seven Bls for Dean. I
did house work again suffering as usual. Cleaned up the barn chaos. Clear & mild.
Thursday 5
[see symbol]
[Temp. 38, 65, 48]
Jul fooled us again. Var. Looked very much like rain but cleared up fine. Jim started off & got
as far as Carmel. Came back at dark. Ed & I started to husking corn but more stopped by
Dunham calling for his Trees after which Ed finished the piece & got nearly 10 bushels. Dean
got home late & made [?]. Clear & Cool.
[Page 104]
Friday, November 6, 1863
[Temp. 42, 55, 40]
Fine clear day. Turned cool towards night. Ed & Jim went up & husked the corn at Carters. 6
Bushels hauled down the Fodder & stacked near the Barn gate. I was very sick all night with
violent chill & dreadful suffering headache all day. Clear.
Saturday 7
[Temp. 41, 71, 51]
Jul got home with Conklin. Splendid clear day. Ed fixed a barrel for Smith & some for Market
than sorted all the apples under the Hickory Tree. A good job. I did house work. Dug seedling
Potoatoes, Lined Cider & raked & ha[u]led leaves to Pig Pen. Clear.
Sunday 8
[Temp. 38, 48, 34]
I covered covered [repeated word] my Potatoes. Var. Cloudy nearly all day gradually becoming
Cold. The prospect for a haed frost is very fair which is bad as there are many apples out yet.
John & a Dutchman caled & walked over the orchard. I did a little Tarring as it looked like rain
but it cleared off.
�[Page 105]
Monday, November 9, 1863
[Temp. 28]
Fine but very cool. Ed finished getting up his seven barrel. Jim & I got up the Belomnts. Ed &
I left for town at 12 M. & like to have frozen going Jim took wheat to mill but did not get it
ground.
Tuesday 10
[Temp. 28]
Clear & cold. Kate did not get to Dels until dinner time. I looked through the market stand at
Dels nearly all day. Jim did nothing but load up cider apples. Clear & cold.
Wednesday 11
[Temp. 32]
Clear & Cold. No one kept the thermometer. Ed & Jim got up Ms Gibsons apples 4 Bls & 2 bls
for Del. Lou & Charlie got to Dels about 9 o clock. Kate & I called to see Louisa Masch. Poor
thing. I fear she may be on her last bed. Jim went to mill again for nothing. Clear.
[Page 106]
Thursday, November 12, 1863
[Temp. 42, 64, 54]
McGuire engaged 150 trees. Clear, magnificent day the finest I ever remember in November.
Julia being quite sick I had to do housework. Could not do much out. Ed & Jim went to town
with Gibsons & Dels apples. I got the well bucket up & mended it. Kept busy all day. Clear.
Friday 13
[Temp. 48, 61, 62]
Ed left at noon. Jul & Pearl rode out in the Buggy. Var. Looked very much like rain. Very
muld Indian Summer. Ed & Jim got up six barrels & three baskets. Cow got in the Barn &
destroyed the apple awfully. I measured the Brandy & put it in a smaller cask 30 Gallons. I was
busy all day. Lilla walker over.
Saturday 14
[see symbol]
[Temp. 49, 59, 44]
Polly got out & made her escape. Began raining about 6 All & rained gently all the forenoon.
Jim sawed wood & husked some Corn. Ed Hall helped him. I husked Big Corn & fixed the Big
[?] so as to tar it. Ed got home at dark. Rained hard in town. Very cloudy, turned cool.
�[Page 107]
[Temp. 39, 39, 38]
Jim took Lilla in the cart. Misted & drizzled all day. I staid in the house all day excepting a
couple of races after the cow who got out yesterday & staid out all night. Dean called & got his
whip & took the hooks off of the lines. Ed quite sick all day. Drizzling.
Monday 16
[Temp. 38, 43, 40]
Jim too kPrince down to the shed. Drizzled all night & all day. One of the most diagreeable
days immaginable. Jim sawed some wood & went hunting. I read nearly all day not daring to go
out. Ed still quite unwell. Mustering still.
Tuesday 17
[Temp. 40, 48, 44]
Ms C & Jul rode buggy to depot. Ms C came home with Jul. Rained all night & misted half the
day. Sun shone a few minutes but clouded over again. I coughed all night quite sick all day.
Jim picked up a few Newtons in the Pear O. He took a load of Cider apples to Davis (Conklin
took tea with Jul). Cloudy.
[Page 108]
Wednesday, November 18, 1863
[Temp. 40, 50, 53]
Var. Considerable sunshine today turning warm apif[?] it would rain again. Jim hauled three
loads of wood. Found some stolen. Ed sorted apples in the Barn. A man got 100 appletrees, 2
Peas & 1 Doz Strawberry hearts. Clear.
Thursday 19
[Temp. 48, 67, 59]
Ed started at 12. Jim hauled wood all day. Ed got in his load 7 Bls. I fizxed two baskets of fine
Clear Pears. Jim took up apples for cider & brought home a barrel of Cider. John came after his
brandy 30 Galls.
Friday 20
[Temp. 38, 38, 54]
Jim worked hard all day. Letter from Kate. Began drizzling at 12 last night & continued all day
almost without intermission. Jim stacked the wood in the woodhouse & hauled one load I did
nothing but read, being too unwell to go out. Ed got home at dusk being too unwell to go out.
Cloudy.
�[Page 109]
Saturday, November 21, 1863
[Temp. 38, 43, 35]
Mistd all the forenoon very disagreeable raw. Ed sorted apples at the Barn. Jim & Bob
Dickinson husked 10 bushels of Corn out of the woods piece. I did nothing but read. Jul went to
the store with Tom.
Sunday 22
[Temp. 29, 40, 33]
Jul got three teeht plugged. Conklins called. Var. cold all day. Froze the ground pretty hard.
Jim took a vomiting spell which prostrated him the whole day. Ed had to do all his work. Jul &
Pearl went to Sallie's & I did wk the house work. Clear & frosty. Jim took wagon to
Willowville. Share.
Monday 23
[Temp. 28, 50, 44, 44]
Sturgiss & Dickinson picked up apples on share. Var. Cold all the forenoon. Moderated after
dinner. Ed got in four Barrels of apples & a barrel of Cider for Harrison & left about 11 oclock.
Jul raked up Leaves. i carried away in Basket & raked some, fixed myself. Drizzling.
[Page 110]
[note written above the date]
Ed got home at 2 P.M.
Tuesday, November 24, 1863
[Temp. 53, 63, 38]
Jul & I went to Sallies after dinner. Var. Misty again before noon. Rained pretty hard in the
night. Jim sawed wood & ransacked the country for Lard & Eggs. Got no Eggs. Cowhouse roof
felt in. Jim went after the cart & wheels & old rigging. Brought home 30 Galls Brandy.
Pumpkin pies. Night wind.
Wednesday 25
[Temp. 34, 40, 38]
Pearl went home in the Buss. Var cloudy near all day. Very raw & chilly. Jim husked corn near
the wood & my seedling. McGuire came & got 15 hoes at $5. Silence reigned supreme. I read
some Hamburg vine & covered it. Cloudy.
Thursday 26
[Temp. 28, 50, 34]
�Skles did clear day. We all took at Conklins. Thanksgiving. Ed was unwell, & I was a little
feverish but it wore ooff. Jim & I shelled corn. My seedling & he went to mill but did not get it
ground. Brought home flour & Chopfeed. Clear.
[Page 111]
[note written above the date]
Jim &I caught a rabbit.
Friday, November 27, 1863
[Temp. 28, 60, 54]
Ed would go although all rain signs mecauled. Var. Moderated during the day. Ed fixed his
load for Tom. I sorted out nearly three baskets of poor Pears the last. I felt bad before dinnerbut
husked Corn afternoon. Got very cold feet. I expect to cough for it. Cloudy & windy.
Saturday 28
[Temp. 50, 48, 56]Sold the last Pears today. Rained hard nearly all night & rained & misted
most of the day. Ed had another nice time in the rain but did first rate. Jim sawed some wood
but loafed mostly. I fitted a handle to the Splitting Axe. Cold & Cloudy.
Sunday 29
[Temp. 22, 24, 18]
Cloudy & Bitter cold all day so cold that we could not be out. I went to Barn & measured the
rest of the corn which was in the waon & put it in the crib. ul went over to Conklins a little
while. I fear for the apples in barn. Cloudy.
[Page 112]
Monday, November 30, 1863
[Temp. 10, 32, 20]
Very cold all day. Jim went to the mill & got the meal. After dinner I killed the Pig & had the
devils own time cleaning it. I ws out most of the day. Ed had fever. Apples all froze hard in the
Barn & applehouse. Clear.
Tuesday, December 1
[see symbol]
[Temp. 26, 46, 40]
Ed had fever agian after noon. Var. Fine day although cold it did not appear so. I cut up the
Pig, Scalded & Washed the Barrel & salled it down. Made iron hoop & put it in the wine barrel,
washed it out & began racking cider. Sifted Meal &c. Clear. Moderated Wind S. Jul made
Lard.
Wednesday 2
�[Temp. 37, 50, 34]
Ed had fever again. Var. Clear mosto f the day. Moderated fixing for rain. I finished racking
the Barrel of Cider. It is splendid. I then husked Corn. Jim hauled wood & 14 doz Blades of
Sorghum from Ducket. He is sick tonight. Has a chill. Clear.
[Page 113]
[Temp. 36, 52, 44]
Ed got up 4 Bls apples & Barrel Cider. Var. Moderated very much. The thaw makes the ground
very cold. I did various jobs about. Mended big gate, tamed leaks in roof, husked some corn but
had backache so bad I had to quit.
Friday 4
[Temp. 48, 56, 46]
Sallie sick, sent for Jul to come over. Var. Mackarel sky turning warmer. Jim & Bob D husked
in Fodder all day. I cleaned up Barn floor, put Romanites in the Barn. I then racked Cider. Ed
got home at 10 oclock having sold out last night. Ms Conklin called. Ed sick tonight. Clouds.
Saturday 5
[Temp. 38, 52, 38]
Jul has not returned. Ed sorted apples all day. Var. Very cloudy at sunrise. Splendid day. Jim
& Bob haule up one load of Fodder & a small load of Corn. I did housework. Papered the
kitchen cieling where it was broken off & scrubb the Kitchen. It took me three hours. Made a
bread pudding & applesauce.
[Page 114]
Sunday, December 6, 1863
[Temp. 26, 40, 30]
Var. Rather pleasant. I did housework as Julia did not get home after dinner. Ed started over
those afoot bringing over the Buggy. He met Miss Witham. I went back with her & found Sallie
dieing. She left about half past six conscious to the last. Clear. Jim took Cider apples.
Monday 7
Ms Conklin took tea with us & spent the evening. Var. Cold but file as ant[?] I slept with
Shadoan on the manow[?] Lounge & was cold all night. Had a troubling. I brot over the grave
digger & set them to work. Had to get dinner for him and his son. They took Sallie over about 3
P.M. & burried her. Del, Harrison & Pet just got here in time. Clear.
Tuesday 8
[see symbol]
[Temp. 36, 50, 42]
�Harrison, Del & Pet left after brekafast. Var. Cloudy nearly all day. Looks lke rain. Jim fooled
his time away. Husked about three bushels of corn. Ed got off at about 11 AMsure to be caught
in the rain. I husked some corn, made scraper, mended Barn ladder & sundry other [?]. Cloudy.
[Page 115]
[note written above the date]
Jule & I went over to Conklins. Ms Thompson called.
Wednesday, December 9, 1863
[see symbol]
[Temp. 38, 43, 40]
Ed got home to supper. Cloudy all day. Looked very much like rain. Jim did very little. Cows
got in twice. I felt bad & did very little. Sold 10 trees to a Dutchman. Made Loila a stool. She
rode on Charley over to Williamsville & back. Cloudy.
Thursday 10
[Temp. 38, 40, 38]
I went to Davis after the Cider. Ms Ducket called. Cloudy dark & raw all day. E Wind. Jim
pretended to husk corn. Broke the wagon tongue & drove out cowws. I overhauled Georges act.
Found it overrun mine over $20. I drove cows & built up fence. Pulled up Beets & crowed
them. Ed worked with apples.
Friday 11
[Temp. 38, 53, 53]
Rained before day & has misted & rained all day. Jim sawed wood & greased Harness. I cut
fodder tops & made cowfeed she euts[?] He took ole[?]. Ed had dreadful backache. Jim sorted
some apples. I papered back of the stove &c. Dark & drizzle.
[Page 116]
Saturday, December 12, 1863
[Temp. 48, 56, 54]
Drizzled & rained all day & is at it yet. Jim sorted apples in the Barn & sawed wood. I linkened
all day at one thing or another. Tried to make the Pump work better. Jul worked hard. Ed quite
unwell. Raining.
Sunday 13
[Temp. 52, 56, 53]
I had another cow drive & fence fixing. Rained all night & drizzled most of the day, a most
gloomy prospect. Nothing but mud & & [ampersand repeated] mise [mice?] for some time. I
�was out a while looking for Peas buds but found them very scarce. This is bad for puel[?] buds.
So much warm weather. Raining.
Monday 14
[Temp. 42, 34, 29]
Ed & Jul rode to Lanes store. Cloudy all day. Burned cold & snowed a little. I gave Jim a
blowing lip & he did much better today. He sawed wood & I was going to husk Corn but it
turned too cold. I arranged George's account & read. Cloudy cold & wind.
[Page 117]
[note written above the date]
Gave Dned[?] apples Sanblory Fair yesterday. Jim pulled some corn in the trusk. Cloudy &
cold all day. Very gloomy day. ED loaded up six barrels & left at 11 oclock. I rakced the cider
which was in the molasses barrel inot the clear one & began boliing down the rest. I made
Bouce & put on the meat. Cloudy.
Wednesday 16
[Temp. 27, 31, 33]
I racked Cider & made Apple Butter & &c. Cloudy in the forenoon. Snowed afternoon. Slicted
after supper & now Raining hard with Thunder very unusual. Jim pulled two cartloads of Corn
& sawed wood. Jul taken with verh[?]. Got vomiting which continued all day. Ed came home
& had a vomiting spell. Rain & Thunder.
Thursday 17
[Temp. 50, 28, 30]
Ed wrote to Kate. I put in a line. Rained & Thundered hard most of the night. Drizzled most of
the day. Jim husked corn in the Barn. I tinkered with the Pump & made it worse. Did not find
the leak. I cleaned up the Barn & cut fodder. Ed just taken with Hemmorhage. Cloudy &
windy.
[Page 118]
Friday, December 18, 1863
[Temp. 24, 26, 20]
Var. Snowed a little this morning & again tonight. Jim Leila & I hauled two bushels of Corn.
He plled two loads of Corn & hauled up. I churned & made Cider molasses. Jul called on Mrs.
Sturgis who is sick. Snowing.
Saturday 19
[Temp. 12, 24, 16]
�Ed very unwell today. Cloudy, a few minutes sunshine. Very cold all day. Jim sawed wood, he
sawed some for Conklins. I went to Moores Mill. Got 2 Bushels. Corn ground & a bag of
Shorts. Jul went as far as Gests got her Bonnet fixed. I paid Taxes & bot a Tureky. Cloudy &
bitter cold.
Sunday 20
[Temp. 10, 25, 22]
Var. Cloud & very cold all day. Nothing but reading & warming done today. Jim cut up some
[?]. I felt like kicking him out. Jul & I went over to Conklins and spent the evening. Cloudy.
Too cold to snow.
[Page 119]
Monday, December 21, 1863
[Temp. 24, 40, 36]
Ed quite unwell, no fever but bad cough. Var. Considerable sunshine. Moderated. Jim finished
getting in the Corn. I began quitting away the debris of the Cowhouse, which had fallen down
some time ago. Jim went to Carmel to get shoes but did not succeed. Shadoan called twice.
Thin clouds.
Tuesday 22
[Temp. 30, 31, 30]
Two stray gees came yesterday. Cloudy & towering all day. Looks very much like snow. Jim
& Frank Ducket got in the rest of the Fodder. He cut wood for Conklins. Ed went to town with
Conklins. I had the blues for two or three days.
Wednesday 23
[Temp. 28, 28, 20]
Cloudy all day & very cold & going to be colder tnoight. Jim spent the morning at the
Shoemakers. Sawed some wood. I was very much under the weather. Severe pain in the Heart.
Ed got home late with Conklins. & very unwell. Clear & cold.
[Page 120]
Thursday, December 24, 1863
[Temp. 14, 34, 24]
Del got my note of alarm and came in the Buss. Clear & bitter cold all day. My dear boy was
taken with dreadful hemorrhage of the Lungs at 3 oclock A.M., & after nearly suffocating, lulled
off until 11 AM, when he had a severe attack & succumbed. Adieu, dear son. Clear.
Friday 25
[Temp. 26, 40, 32]
�Harrison came in Bugg & took Del home. Var. This is the gloomiest day of my life, my only son
Edward was buried! I never knew how much I loved him!
Satuday 26
[see symbol]
[Temp. 36, 46, 42]
I took Ms. K & D Shadoan home. Got very damp. Nothing worth recording. All looks blank --letter from Slittman, violent pain in my heart still. Drizzling.
[Page 121]
[Temp. 42, 48, 49]
Rained all night and all day & still at it. Jul & I took dinner at Conklins at suppertime. I cut
cowfeed. Raining.
Monday 28
[Temp. 37, 34, 36]
Cloudy all day. Spit shower[?] & sleet a little. Jim sawed wood. I was busy fixing alarm clock
&c. Ms Dickinson & Jul washed. We had options which had been intended for Christmastime.
Cloudy & windy.
Tuesday 29
[Temp. 32, 40]
I went to Dels & took Sophy to Baza. Var. Jim & I loaded up two barrels of Cider & took it to
town & sold it to Paul for $16. We took Tom & Charley, intending to sell Lehang[?]. Put up at
woods where Jim slept. Cloudy.
[Page 122]
Wednesday, December 30, 1863
Sent Jim home with Tom & wagon. Drizzled all day. I came near suffocating at the Bazarr last
night & riding in the rain twice to Nora Depot & Cameys Stable caused Hemorrhage of the
throat & Cold, could not sell him.
Thursday 31
[Temp. 50]
Drizzled all day & what I wrote yesterday occured today. Snowed by bedtime & great change.
Julia came in the late train. Found her at Dels. Snowing. One of us gone, Poor Ed! Will we be
here next year? Perhaps this is the last diary I shall complete. [remaining memoranda pages left
blank]
�[Cash Account, January]
[Cash Account, February]
[Cash Account, March]
[Cash Account, April]
[Cash Account, May]
[Cash Account, June]
[Cash Account, July]
[Cash Account, August]
[Cash Account, September]
[Cash Account, October]
[November & December cash accounts left blank]
[Memoranda Page 1]
[Memoranda Page 2]
[Memoranda Page 3]
[Inside Back Cover]
[Back Cover]
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Civil War and Slavery Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865
Slavery--United States
African Americans
United States--Politics and government--19th century
Description
An account of the resource
A selection of correspondence, diaries, official documents, photographs related to the American Civil War and to the institution of slavery, collected by Harvey E. Lemmen. The collection includes a selection of documents from ten states related to the ownership of slaves and abolition, correspondence and documents of soldiers who fought in the war and from family members and officials, diaries and letters of individuals, and a collection of mailing envelopes decorated with patriotic imagery.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Lemmen, Harvey E.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/472">Civil War and Slavery Collection (RHC-45)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/470">John Bennitt Diaries and Correspondence (RHC-43)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/471">Nathan Sargent Papers (RHC-44)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/476">Civil War Patriotic Envelopes Collection (RHC-51)<br /></a><a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/479">Whitely Read Diary (RHC-52)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1804-1897
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image; Text
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1804-1897
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-51-Peticolas-diary
Title
A name given to the resource
Theodore Peticolas Diaries
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1863
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Peticolas, Theodore (1800-?)
Description
An account of the resource
Theodore Victor Peticolas, born 29 Feb. 1800 in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, was a fruit farmer in Union Township, Clermont County, Ohio at the time he maintained this diary. It contains his account of the day-to-day routine farm work, crops, family, neighbors, and social life. Peticolas' son Edward, by 1863, had been discharged from the 6th Ohio Infantry Regiment for a disability suffered in the War. Edward died on Christmas eve, 1863.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Diaries
Peticolas, Theodore V.
Peticolas, Edward
Agriculture
Farms, Small
Fruit growers
Personal narratives, United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865
United States. Army. Ohio Infantry Regiment, 6th (1861-1864)
Clermont County (Ohio)
Ohio
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en">No Copyright - United States</a>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/478">Theodore Peticolas Diary (RHC-51)</a>