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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dd2bc36b792cfa2992837958980b5649.mp4
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ee04d71680bb96922925b184183b524c.pdf
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Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Robert M. Smith
Date of Interview: 04-25-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 2]
FRANK BORING:
Once you were on the ship there were some frequent stops on your
way before you arrived in Rangoon, are there any particular places
that you stopped off that you thought were of particular interest?
R.M. SMITH:
On the trip from San Francisco, our first stop was Honolulu. We
went in there in the afternoon and we were given leave and then
sailed the next morning. Honolulu was a Navy town, lots of sailors
around and I did a little shopping. I bought a diary, a bound ledger
which I used for a diary, I bought half a dozen Hawaiian shirts
which I wore later in China and then had a drink or two and then
back to the ship. Our next stop - well, after we left Honolulu after
the first day or so, we picked up two Navy cruisers, the Salt Lake
City and the North Hampton, who convoyed us then down straight
south, southwest into eventually the straits between New Guinea
and Java and then the Salt Lake City and the North Hampton
dropped us and we were picked up by a Dutch gunboat that took us
into Singapore.
FRANK BORING:
I think there was some reference "Maverick War" maybe came
from your diary about the night life in Honolulu.
R.M. SMITH:
The night life in Honolulu - it was the 15th of the month and that
was Navy pay day and the Navy was out in force and they were at
the local houses of ill repute, lining up in lines. Of course my
group were mostly Army and we were looking down on these
�Navy men for their crude approach. But I guess when you're in a
sailor's town - that's about all I remember of that.
FRANK BORING:
When you arrived in Singapore, I noticed in your diary you had a
great deal about Singapore. What was your impression upon
arriving there and how long did you stay and what were some of
the things you did?
R.M. SMITH:
When we got to Singapore, we only stayed there about 24 hours. It
had been planned that we'd stay there a week or two and then go
up north to Burma by railroad. But the first 30 of the AVG had
been there a couple of weeks before and they had really torn up the
town. They advertised in the local paper a beauty contest to attract
good looking young Asian girls, they were obstreperous to say the
least, so when they heard that we had hit town, 123 of us, the local
authorities said no way and so they ordered the Dutch Captain of
the Jaegersfontein to take us up to Rangoon, which took another
five days. But we did get shore leave. We got 24 hours, that night
we went ashore. We didn't stay at a hotel, we just came back
around midnight. But, as I remember, Singapore, it was a dirty
town. Open sewers - I understand it's cleaned up now - but it
smelled. The canals that went through it, the odor was so bad that
we held our noses and ran to get away from the canal. It was - little
kids crapping in the street - it was a cultural shock. When the Navy
- I mean the British came aboard our ship, they were dressed in
typical tropical with light shorts and high stockings and our guys
whistled at them, they'd never seen them, we didn't wear shorts in
the States in 1941 - men didn't wear shorts. But later, when we
were in Burma, not only did our guys all start wearing shorts, but
they didn't wear the real neat shorts like the British did, they wore
shorts that were cut up fairly high. But it was a cultural shock for
us - it was a real cultural shock to see the different peoples, the
various races, Indians, Malays, British, Australian, Chinese incredible - it was incredible.
�FRANK BORING:
You also mentioned that another thing about Singapore that upset
you was the selling of the daughters for sexual purposes.
R.M. SMITH:
When one of our men reported, we got back to the ship - that the apparently a native husband had sold his wife - because when he
got up in the morning, the husband was sleeping outside the door
of the bedroom. Their customs were somewhat different.
FRANK BORING:
What was your first impression on arriving in Rangoon? What can
you describe for us about the arrival there? Because this was your
first train - you went to Rangoon and then to Toungoo? First was
Rangoon though, right?
R.M. SMITH:
Yes, we arrived in Rangoon, I think it was the 23rd of August and
the ship did not go up and dock at docks, it anchored out in the
harbor and we went ashore on Lighters and our baggage was taken
ashore. This was in the morning, so they took us to a hotel and fed
us a breakfast around 10 o'clock in the morning, then they put us
on the local railroad, local train, which was a narrow gauge train
that ran north from Rangoon through Toungoo and then eventually
up to Lashio. So we got into Toungoo sometime late in the
afternoon and I'll never forget old Walter Dolan, my old buddy, the
first time I saw him he was part of the first 30 group and he was
out there in a pair of white duck trousers, a sun helmet, carrying a
stick and he watched us come in and he said "Welcome suckers"
and I remember that pair of white ducks because I bought them
from him later for $5.00 because he couldn't wear them anymore
and they had a 30 inch waist, which I couldn't use today.
FRANK BORING:
From Rangoon, what was the next stop? Where did you go from
there?
R.M. SMITH:
From Rangoon we went up to Toungoo which was a small town in
the central Burma plains and the airport was about 7 miles out of
town, Keydaw Airport. Toungoo had one place to eat, the railroad
�station, and some Baptist Missionaries. I remember I bought from
them a Burmese grammar to study Burmese.
FRANK BORING:
Give us your impressions of your arrival there. What were the
living conditions like? What was the weather like? What was the
atmosphere like?
R.M. SMITH:
We were in Toungoo in central Burma in the middle of August, it
is hot, the first thing that we noticed was the horrible, oppressive
heat. Our barracks were built for the British. Teak wood with a
veranda, porch, on one side. The beds all had a nice little sticker on
them saying "On his Majesty's Service," but this airfield was built
for the British but they were not using it, so they turned it over to
us as a gesture because Chennault did not want to start training up
in China because Burma, at that time was neutral and it was a safer
and better place to train than China itself, where we could have
been subjected immediately to air raids and many of our pilots had
never blown a P-40.
FRANK BORING:
What were the barracks like? Could you describe a little bit more
in detail what the barracks were like?
R.M. SMITH:
The barracks were made of teak, the roof was a thatched roof, they
had lots of bugs in them, we had mosquito bars over the barracks
and when we'd go to bed at night, I'd always take my clothes inside
to keep various odd creatures from getting in them. Then the first
thing I'd do when I dressed in the morning was to knock out my
shoes to be sure that I didn't have anything in there before I put my
feet in them.
FRANK BORING:
Were there any incidents you could recall - one of the things that
was mentioned in one of the books was snakes would sometimes
run through the barracks. Were there any incidents that you can
recall that happened in the barracks along that line?
�R.M. SMITH:
I don't remember any snakes in the barracks, but I do remember
almost stepping on a crate one night as I was going over to the
mess hall and we heard some real nice stories about the crate. They
said if you're bitten by it, you had 90 seconds to live and they tell a
story of a Gurkha who was bit in the hand and with one motion he
took his knife and cut his hand off in order to save his life. A crate
is a very poisonous snake, not too long.
FRANK BORING:
That story is powerful. This time explain what the crate is though.
R.M. SMITH:
There was a story about the Gurkha who was bitten by a crate.
Now a crate is one of the most poisonous snakes in Southeast Asia.
It's not very long, it has colors of red and yellow on it. They tell the
story of a Gurkha who was bitten by the crate - when you're bitten
you have 90 seconds before you die - so with one motion the
Gurkha grabbed his knife and cut off his hand in order to save his
life.
FRANK BORING:
What were your immediate duties, if you will, once you arrived
there? What was your job, what were you supposed to be doing?
R.M. SMITH:
The first job that I had when I got there was - since I was a
radioman - was to tear out all the wiring in the P-40 planes that we
had, because they were wired for British radios because these had
been designed to go to Britain. But we didn't have the British
radios, so we had to tear out the wiring and re-wire them for an
RCA 7H. I think it was a radio that was designed for Piper Cubs.
The radios had - I think 24 volt batteries in the planes - but the
radios were 12 volt, so we had to tap half the side of the battery in
order to run the radio. Now this runs down the battery on one side
and out the other, which doesn't do any good for the batteries and
makes the crew chief very, very unhappy. Crew chiefs were always
chewing out the radiomen because of their damn radios. So we set
up a little shed near the field and we had a battery charger there
and we had many batteries and we were always charging batteries.
�FRANK BORING:
When was your first meetings with the official AVG people, for
example Chennault or Greenlaw or any of these people? When did
you first meet these people?
R.M. SMITH:
When I got to Toungoo, I never really met Chennault while I was
there. I saw him at a distance. I saw various people, but most of my
contact was with Parker Dupouy who was appointed
Communications Officer and so he was the one that I talked to and
that I reported to.
FRANK BORING:
During your stay in Toungoo, besides putting the radios in - or is
that all you did during that period of time? Were there other things
that you had to do besides the radios?
R.M. SMITH:
Besides that I was put in charge of communication supply while I
was in Toungoo and one of my jobs was to try to scrounge tools
and any spare parts that I could get locally in the local town of
Toungoo. I remember the day before - the day Pearl Harbor when
we heard about it, I had been planning to go to Toungoo to go
around the various shops and markets and scrounge tools and I
though well I might as well go, I think we're gonna need them
worse than ever now, so I did.
FRANK BORING:
What's involved with scrounging? What do you mean by
scrounging?
R.M. SMITH:
Scrounging is an old Army term meaning going out and get by any
means - fair or foul - whatever you need for tools, food, whatever.
FRANK BORING:
So for example if you went into Toungoo to get radio parts or
something like that, where would you look for that?
R.M. SMITH:
There were thieves' markets in Toungoo. There used to be jokes
that if something was stolen from you, go down there the next day
and you can buy it back. You would see - they would sell - I
bought pliers there, screwdrivers, various odds and ends. Whatever
�was around. We'd buy things there that here in the States that we'd
probably throw away, we wouldn't bother with.
FRANK BORING:
What was the supply situation like in Toungoo in terms of you
have a problem with fixing something because of a tool - could
you just ask Parker Dupouy and he'd be able to provide you with
the equipment? How did you go about - I guess what I'm trying to
get is this idea of - you didn't have a Sears and Roebuck that you
could just order out of - what was the supply situation like?
R.M. SMITH:
One of the big problems in our supply situation was that we did not
have any spare parts at all and very little proviso for them. We had
100 P-40's, one of which dropped in the bay at Rangoon, so
absolutely no spare parts. There were no tires, no extra tires or
anything. So when a plane crashed and we had quite a few
accidents, we'd use the plane to the part various parts for repair.
Later on they did find from the Philippines and from Singapore,
they did find some spare tires and some various other things. In
fact, Joe Alsop, that was his main job there to scrounge around the
various parts of the Far East looking for spare parts.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1938/1991
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English; Chinese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
video; text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88_Smith_Robert_M_1991-04-25_v02
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Smith, Robert M.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-04-25
Title
A name given to the resource
Robert M. Smith interview (video and transcript, 2 of 6), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview with Robert M. Smith by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Smith served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Communications Specialist. In this tape, Smith describes the journey overseas with the AVG, his first impressions upon arrival in Rangoon and Toungoo, and his first duties as a radioman for the group.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4ef5c603f2a3bec79c5c9d13a575c4f9.mp4
7054adf20b2a18ea489e79a9f7abae38
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f4248f9967b5831b0c41e01dd221e307
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Robert M. Smith
Date of Interview: 04-25-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 1]
FRANK BORING:
To being with if you could tell us in as much detail as you want,
what were you doing before you even heard about the opportunity
in China with the AVG?
R.M. SMITH:
Well, I'd gone to school in Kansas, I went to Kansas State and
while I was there I got interested in radio, radio writing and the
local station, KSAC and real interested and did quite a bit of work,
mostly dramatic, mostly historical stuff. Then my folks were in
Colorado and I went out there one summer and with the help of
Doc Summers, a Professor of public speaking, I got a job at the
local radio station and I hadn't graduated, I still needed a semester.
So here I was a radio announcer for a couple of years. I used to go
out with my girl and the chief engineer and his girl and we'd
practice code and drink some kind of Catawba wine I remember
and so I got interested and picked up a little code speed. Then
towards the end of 1939 I came out to California and tried to crack
Hollywood, but I got three interviews for radio announcer, but I
flubbed them, I was nervous so I decided I wasn't gonna do that,
knew a war was coming. So in January 1940 I decided I was gonna
enlist in the Army. My ROTC was Army. So I went down to Fort
MacArthur and the Sergeant down there looked at me and he said
"I'm gonna put you in the Air Force." So January of 1940 I was
sent up to Moffett Field for basic. But they didn't have any
uniforms for us and they didn't have any shoes, so we spent the six
weeks basic mostly in the barracks. Then they sent us up to
�Hamilton Field for the 20th Pursuit Group and I remember when I
was interviewed by an old Major - he was at least must have been
40 - he looked at my record and said "Well son, you can go to
Randolph Field, you've got two years of college. You don't have to
pass the mental, just the physical." I said "Well I don't think I can
pass the physical because one eye is 20-30." And he leaned back
and he said "Well, maybe it's just as well. I'm the only one left out
of my class at Randolph." Anyway they split the 20th Pursuit
Group into the 35th, so there were 3 more squadrons, 2 more group
headquarters, this happened about a year later. In the meantime, I'd
practiced total out on the squadron school and studied and I was
able to pass the various exams, so I passed the exam for Air
Mechanic First Class, which paid Tech Sergeant's pay. When they
split, of course there were all kinds of openings. So I got here a
year later, I was Buck Sergeant drawing Tech Sergeant's pay and
that's when they came around in April of '41 recruiting for the
AVG and boy that sounded fine - $300.00 a month for a radioman.
FRANK BORING:
What was your first encounter with it? Did you find it by a
newspaper? By word of mouth, how did you find about AVG?
R.M. SMITH:
Oh it was word of mouth. The word was going from here to here to
there. So they told me - I've even forgotten who I talked to. So I
went in and presented myself and he said "Fine, you want to go
fine. You're a Radioman." But I was a radio operator really, not a
mechanic.
FRANK BORING:
What did they tell you your responsibilities were gonna be and
where you were gonna go and the purpose of why you were going?
R.M. SMITH:
Well they told us we were going to protect the Burma Road. They
may have told pilots more than they told us, but I had no - I
realized it was going to be a war situation, I had no illusions about
an easy peace time job. I knew what we'd probably be getting into
so that didn't particularly worry me. I was just glad to go.
�FRANK BORING:
What did you know about the Chinese at that time and later the
Japanese at that time?
R.M. SMITH:
Nothing really. Nothing except what one reads or picks up, but
nothing about China, nothing about Japan. It was just romance.
(break)
FRANK BORING:
Once again, what did you know about China at that time and what
did you know about the Japanese at that time?
R.M.SMITH:
Well I really didn't know anything about the Chinese or Japan
except what one reads in the newspapers. I knew of course that
there'd been a war since 1937 and they'd been fighting the
Japanese, but I didn't have any real detailed - I was of course pro
Chinese. I think most Americans were at the time, but I really
didn't know any detail at all.
FRANK BORING:
Why did you want to go?
R.M. SMITH:
It was adventure. I would have gone for $100 dollars a month. It
was $300 a month and it was a chance to see the world. I was just
happy to go.
FRANK BORING:
Once you'd made the decision to go, could you explain to us the
procedure of getting out of the military and joining up with the
AVG and any difficulties you may have had.
R.M. SMITH:
Well I didn't have any difficulty at all in getting out of the service.
Apparently when I put in for my discharge, there was no argument
at all because I think our C.O. was, by the way, Colonel Aker, later
General Aker. But Arvol Miller, who was another Radioman,
heard that I was going so he went in and said "Hey, I want to go
too." And Aker heard about and says "No way, they're taking
enough of our Radiomen." So the interviewer for the AVG, he got
on the horn to Washington and radiogram came back or telegram
came back saying "Release Arvol Miller, so he was released.
�FRANK BORING:
What was the next step in terms of your leaving the military, where
did you go next to join up with the AVG?
R.M. SMITH:
I was discharged from the Army Air Corps on June 26, 191. My
mother was living down in Los Angeles, so I went down to Los
Angeles for a few days and then a week or two later I caught a
train in Union Station up to San Francisco. I remember my uncle,
William Dutton, came down, my mother's brother came down to
see me off and I heard later he turned to my mother and he said
"We'll never see that boy again." Well, he was partially right
because he died before I got back to the States. But then we went
up to - Jim Music, I met him on the train, he and I went up together
to San Francisco and they had reservations for us in a hotel there I've forgotten the name now, but we stayed there for several days
until the 10th of July and on the 10th we sailed from San
Francisco. I remember because it was my brother Philip's birthday.
FRANK BORING:
What did you tell your mom about your going?
R.M. SMITH:
Well I told my mother the truth and my mother was always one of
these women who would say "Well if you want to do it, go ahead."
I didn't have any problems at all and also I made an allotment out
so that my mother had an income while I was in the service - while
I was over in China. I had no objection and later my mother and
father were both very proud of the fact that I'd been there. Mother
made many little talks at Ladies Aid or something showing various
things that I brought back from China.
FRANK BORING:
You're staying in this hotel in San Francisco. This is when you're
meeting a lot of the AVG at this time, a lot of the Tigers were
showing up at this time. Could you describe your arrival there and
your meeting these guys and hearing what they were saying about
any of that?
�R.M. SMITH:
There were quite a bunch of us that got together at the hotel in San
Francisco. There were 123, I think, of pilots and ground people and
there was quite a bit of drinking and talking, but I don't remember
anything in particular that we talked about.
FRANK BORING:
How did you react to being in the presence of a bunch of guys all
going off to China? Did you hear different reasons why they were
going or - what was the main subject of conversation that you guys
were talking about?
R.M. SMITH:
I really can't recall anything particular. It's been so long, I just don't
remember
FRANK BORING:
Was there a sense of excitement? Was there a sense of danger?
R.M. SMITH:
Well there was quite a feeling of excitement - all of us were real
happy to go. We were looking forward to it, it was a great
adventure. We were a little dubious about some of the things that
had been promised or the rumors that got around, but I don't think
anyone would have turned around and gone back to the service.
FRANK BORING:
What kind of doubts did you have? What were some of these
rumors that you're referring to?
R.M. SMITH:
There was a rumor that the pilots would be paid $500.00 a month
for every plane shot down, this went around. And there was some
doubt about that, some of them really didn't think that they would
do it.
(break)
R.M. SMITH:
One of the doubts was that the - particularly from the pilots - that
they really didn't believe that they were going to be paid $500.00
for every plane they shot down. They were a little dubious on that.
Generally, there was some speculation.
�FRANK BORING:
I know later on these things were brought up, but did you at that
time think that you were a mercenary or going to a foreign country
to fight under a foreign flag or did you think in terms of you were
just an American getting into the war before America got in the
war? What were your feelings at that time?
R.M. SMITH:
I realized at the time that I was a mercenary and that didn't bother
me a bit. When we got to China - or not to China - when we got to
Toungoo in Rangoon, we were required or asked to sign a piece of
paper that put us in the Chinese Air Force and I had no objection to
that at all. Although some of the fellows kind of cried a little bit or
objected, but I didn't - it didn't bother me.
FRANK BORING:
From San Francisco you boarded a ship?
R.M. SMITH:
We boarded the Jaegersfontein in San Francisco. It was a Dutch
ship out of Java. All of the servants aboard were Javanese, wearing
their skirts and the turbans and were very colorful. The food was
good, it had a bar, you could charge, sign your name. In 35 days at
sea I don't think we ran out of booze at all.
FRANK BORING:
Can you describe for us perhaps some of the incidents that may
have happened on the ship?
R.M. SMITH:
Well the happiest place of course was the bar and we played
bridge, we played a lot of bridge and there were poker games
going on all the way across. We were rather packed. The rooms
were designed for two people, but they put extra cots in so
generally most rooms had three, so they were a little crowded. But
the service was good and we were treated well.
FRANK BORING:
As I understand it, you all had different occupations on your
passports. I wonder if you could comment on that particular bit?
R.M. SMITH:
I of course was listed as a radio announcer, but I had been a radio
announcer. But some of the other fellows who hadn't had any
�civilian jobs at all, they had to make something up. So they did
with some imagination.
FRANK BORING:
What about your fellow passengers? Was there any interaction
between the AVG group and the other people that were on the
ship?
R.M. SMITH:
All the first class passengers were AVG. There was some steerage
there and there were some Chinese there - some Chinese very
educated - one of which gave lessons in Chinese for us for $1.00 a
lesson and I took those lessons and quite a few of us did while we
were on the ship.
FRANK BORING:
You said that people made up occupations could you give us…?
R.M. SMITH:
Gosh I don't remember. There's other books that tell this but we
didn't see each other's passport or look at it.
FRANK BORING:
Did you have to maintain any kind of secrecy while you were in
San Francisco? Were you aware of anything like that?
R.M. SMITH:
We weren't aware of any secrecy at all. I think we were told to
keep quiet about what we were doing, but I don't remember
anything particular. We didn't associate with any other civilians,
mostly within ourselves. But I know there were a lot of rumors
going around.
FRANK BORING:
Once you were on the ship, you were starting to get to know some
of these guys that you were eventually going to become very good
friends with. Could you let us know what that was like to get to
know some of these people that were from all over the country and
any ones in particular that you became close to, starting on the trip
on the ship? Were there any of the AVG guys that stuck out that
you personally, in terms of developing a friendship that eventually
lasted into China and beyond?
�R.M. SMITH:
Most of the close friends I made in the AVG, came on other ships
and the only one that I knew fairly well on the ship, a guy named
Hauser, because I played bridge with him, he quit early. But the
ones that I really got to associate and made good friends, lasting
friends, came on other ships.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1938/1991
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English; Chinese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
video; text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88_Smith_Robert_M_1991-04-25_v01
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Smith, Robert M.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-04-25
Title
A name given to the resource
Robert M. Smith interview (video and transcript, 1 of 6), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview with Robert M. Smith by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Smith served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) as a Communications Specialist. In this tape, Smith discusses his background in the Army Air Corps prior to joining the American Volunteer Group and his journey overseas aboard the Jaegersfontein.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/63db44ada0258f43b7f8b18176721b35.mp4
f1c767cf4815c32d0090b19b9439d98c
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fabaf85b4373b6922efb583599d936c8.pdf
2f0b6f56f359cd2b6751d172474e89f6
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling
Date of Interview: 09-25-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 8]
ERIK SHILLING:
In Cairo when the P-40's finally came up and I had been sent to
Cairo to ferry one of the P-40's back, Tom Haywood and I came
back together and when we got to Tel Aviv, the next day when we
were going to a place called Habenea [?], which is the airport for
Baghdad, it was drizzle and rain and low ceilings and of course the
P-40 didn't have any radio for navigating or making instrument let
downs, so we felt that we would have to stay again and at this time,
a BOAC airplane was there and it was a converted bomber and one
of the passengers on board this BOAC airplane, incidentally was
the Queen of Iran, who happened to be the sister of King Farouk
and she was at that time the Shah's wife, but she didn't produce any
men, so he went through a couple more wives. But anyhow, we
found out that they were going to the same place we were so we
felt that if we could fly formation with them, they said okay that it
was fine. The only trouble was when we were asking about speeds
and so on, they were talking about true air speed and true air speed
and indicated air speed can be a great difference. So when they
were talking about true air speed we thought they were talking
about indicated air speed. So everything was just fine so we took
off ahead because we were more maneuverable and we circled
around until they got off and when they got off, we got down into
formation with them and of course you can fly formation on
instruments if you're tucked in close enough. So we were doing
real fine until we hit a torrential downpour of rain and we weren't
ready for it and we were too far out so we split and I told Tom to
�climb 500 and I would go down 500 and so we continued on the
same heading and about 5 minutes later we came into a great big
round open clearing, although there were clouds over us and
clouds under us, but we then went back into formation and really
tucked it in because we didn't want that to happen again. But as we
were flying along we were real slow and when you're flying real
slow in a P-40, your spark plugs start fouling up and the engine
starts running rough and we were having engine problems at that
time and a little bit later on we ran into beautiful clear weather. So
we told him what our problem was so we left him and went up to
cruising power, which then eventually cleared out the plugs. But
we were only about 15 minutes after that, that we ran into a damn
sand storm and in the sand storm it just goes from the ground up
and it was like a knife - this sand was being kicked up by a real
strong wind and like clear here and sand here - and we tried to get
on top of it and we went up to 20,000 feet and were still in it and
so what I decided to do then was sort of head to the north a little bit
and hopefully we could eventually run out of the stuff or pick up
the Euphrates River and follow the Euphrates down to Baghdad
and then the Habenea? Airport was near Baghdad. Fortunately
about 20 miles short of there, the sand storm stopped just like it
had begun and we were able to get into our destination of Habenea
[?].
FRANK BORING:
Let's go back to the Salween Bridge and if you don't have so much
to say in terms of your actual participation, could you give us an
evaluation of how it fit in the AVG history, in terms of China's
history and how important that was?
ERIK SHILLING:
I flew top cover on one of the Salween River strikes and it was the
only place I think that the air has ever stopped a ground force. It
was a very narrow - the Burma Road is extremely narrow and
many places it's absolutely impossible to turn a truck around or
anything and they were all the way down to the bridge and the
bridge had been blown. So there were hundreds of trucks that were
trapped there and flew top cover because the P-40's that I was
�flying only had two 50's and four 30's and we couldn't carry bombs
- it had no provision for bomb racks and the P-40E's had gotten out
there and they had six 50's, much more devastating for ground
strafing and they also could carry 250 pound bombs in the wing
racks, so they were the ones that went down and did the strafing
and caught - I don't know how many - hundreds of trucks in the
convoy there and the Japanese were stopped at the Salween and
actually turned around and started retreating at that point. They
never progressed beyond the Salween River Gorge for the rest of
the war. Really what that amounted to was if they had overrun
Kunming, it was very likely that China would have succumbed to
the war and China - the people in China - the soldiers and so on
were occupying maybe almost a million Japanese soldiers and had
they been successful in taking Kunming and then of course Chung
King would have been next - nothing would have stopped them
then - that would have relieved almost a million soldiers to then go
out on these different islands and actually it could have been an
entirely different ending to the war or much more devastating as
far as loss of lives was concerned.
FRANK BORING:
At the end of that period of time you had gone through all these
experiences, you had major difficulties in overcoming everything
from weather to food to you'd worked hard, you'd watched friends
of yours die, you had been at the forefront of the war, could you
tell us your impression, your reaction to General Bissell coming in
and giving you this lecture about your role in the war. Give us as
much detail as you can about that meeting.
ERIK SHILLING:
Bissell came over and I often wonder really what his mission was
and I honestly believe that he was attempting to dissuade us from
joining because nobody in their right mind would have approached
us and tried to induce us into joining the Army Air Corps at that
time. He wasn't that dumb, so I think that first of all he never said
that we had done a good job, never recognized the fact that we had
done a job well done, didn't ask us to stay and help indoctrinate the
new pilots, to help them learn what we had already learned and it
�just - I cannot imagine any other reason for him to act the way he
did. He said that when we went home we would be faced with the
draft board and he would see that we went into the Army instead of
being pilots and he would absolutely refuse to give us any
transportation back, although our contract called for this. He was
just so negative that no one - only five guys and that was at the
personal plea of Chennault, stayed. Whereas I think that had
Chennault made the bid for us to stay, I was prepared, I had
already applied for a commission and Bissell changed my mind
completely. He was so intensely disliked by many of the AVG
guys that some of the ground personnel had taught the Chinese
refuelers - and the Chinese refuelers thought that it meant Hi or
Hello or something like this and what they taught them was "Piss
on Bissell" so every time they refueled an airplane the crew and
everybody, passengers coming of would be greeted with "Piss on
Bissell" and I'm quite sure that sooner or later Bissell heard this.
FRANK BORING:
I would like to sum up at this point - I won't say evaluation but
your personal feelings about Claire Chennault.
ERIK SHILLING:
I found that everything he said was true. In other words, his word
was never in my opinion - never to be doubted.
(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
(break)
Claire Chennault to me - there's only one guy I loved better and
that was my father. He never lied to any of us. He always stood
behind his word and I just - it's difficult to even know - when you
like somebody as well as I liked him and I think almost everyone
with just a few exceptions, felt the same way about Chennault. He
was really a wonderful person. His appearance was 180 degrees
from what he was inside. He was really a soft-hearted, kind guy,
yet his appearance was - he was rough, tough and a mean old
bastard, but he wasn't.
�ERIK SHILLING:
Of course when we left, everyone that liked him went over and
said goodbye to him, but I then had the opportunity to visit him
quite frequently because with CNAC, flying the hump, I used to go
over maybe once a month or - we were always welcome in his
office regardless of what rank or what he was doing, he's never
been too busy to see me.
FRANK BORING:
What do you feel you personally accomplished during that period
of your life with the AVG?
ERIK SHILLING:
That's difficult because after I left the AVG and started flying the
hump, I really felt that I had accomplished even much more there
than I did flying for the AVG. Because I've made in round figures
about 540 round trips on the hump. The military would send them
home after 25 round trips, so all of Chennault's supplies and
everything - every drop of gas, every bullet that was fired, every
bomb practically that was dropped, had to be brought over the
hump and I felt that by the longer I flew the hump, the better I was
at it and whereas the military lost many more planes and pilots on
the hump, than our small group did because of the familiarity with
the hump.
FRANK BORING:
Let's look at it from a different perspective then - just looking back
on your life where do you think the AVG fits into history, into
American history, into Chinese history?
ERIK SHILLING:
I think the AVG fits into a very small area when the whole world
was tumbling down around the Americans. We were devastated at
Pearl Harbor, we had lost Singapore, we had lost Hong Kong, we
had lost the Philippines and there wasn't a bright spot on the
horizon anyplace except our small group of AVG and this - the
way I see it - the American people realized that once given a
chance - what the Americans could do.
�FRANK BORING:
One final question. How do you react to being called a Flying
Tiger?
ERIK SHILLING:
At one time I didn't think too much of it, but the older I get I'm
quite proud of that. I think that looking back on it, the more I see
everything - it's difficult to say but I'm really proud of being a
Flying Tiger, but it's not that I think I'm better than anything, I just
had that opportunity presented itself to me and I was fortunate to
take advantage of it.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1938/1991
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English; Chinese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
video; text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v08
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Shilling, Eriksen E.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-09-25
Title
A name given to the resource
Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 8 of 8), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling discusses the importance of the events at Salween Bridge, in addition to the AVG's place in American and Chinese history and his reaction to being a Flying Tiger.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2ea722654a84e2f107dfaf378f67aa81.mp4
7b1c6ac3845e1bf1875d5012c3282e79
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7eed01bd4277bcfaed96b1fa993171d4.pdf
b4ed7e105b45e63e9699b3d0cd6af8ea
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling
Date of Interview: 09-25-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 7]
FRANK BORING:
What was the reason for your decision to change from the First
Squadron to the Second Squadron to the Third Squadron?
ERIK SHILLING:
When I first got to the AVG I was assigned to the headquarters
squadron and when it came time to be assigned to one of the
combat squadrons, I was assigned to the First Squadron and I
didn't particularly like Sandell. I didn't think that he was very much
of a leader and I think that as far as pilot ability, although the guy
is dead, I didn't think too much of his flying ability and I didn't
want to fly with a guy who was leading the squadron. Then I went
to the Second Squadron but I always wanted to go to the Third and
I had some personal - although Newkirk may not have known it - I
had a personal sort of a dislike for Newkirk as well. He was always
I thought on an ego trip and when I finally got to the Third
Squadron, I was quite happy. Besides I'd run out of squadrons.
FRANK BORING:
Let's go to January 17th and McMillan was leading a flight, this
was your first taste of battle. Could you give us an idea of what
this was like?
ERIK SHILLING:
On January 17th we were scheduled and ready to go on another
photo recon flight and we already had the engines running and
someone came out from operations and told us that there were
three bombers inbound toward Kunming and so instead of the
photo recon, because the airplanes were ready, we took off and
�intercepted them almost 125 miles away. My first impression was
that I could hardly believe my eyes, there must be some mistake
that these can't be Japanese. I had heard other guys had the same
feeling, that they can hardly believe it until they start into the
combat and George McMillan was the leader, Chuck Older, the
guy who was a Judge and Tom Haywood, the four of us and we
shot all four of those guys down. I think that I may have gotten the
leader because my thoughts were this. There were only three of
them so I didn't have to worry about any others and I felt that if I
aimed for the leader and just sort of let my bullets drift on back, if I
didn't get the leader, I could get one of the wing men and actually
the leader was the first to go down. I sort of halfway think that I
may have gotten him.
(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
When we intercepted these three bombers coming in and my first
impression was that they couldn't be Japanese - I just had a hard
time convincing myself that they were enemies, they seemed so
peaceful and so forth sitting out there, but then as we got closer I
could distinguish the markings on them and so we split, there were
four of us and two of us on one side and two of us on the other, and
then we started making almost simultaneous attacks from each side
and as the one guy came in and broke away, then I would be
following and break away and by that time the leader on my side,
McMillan, was attacking again. So we just kept this up from both
sides. The leader went down first and at that time, they had already
turned and were going back toward their departure point. The
amazing thing to me was, when the leader caught on fire and the
smoke was pouring out you could see the flames and I passed
almost right over top of him and I could look down and it looked
like the airplane was almost red, it was so hot and what impressed
me was the fact that these two guys, the wingmen hadn't budged an
inch, they were still sticking in there and we sort of broke off
shooting at them because we were afraid that the darn thing would
eventually explode in our face, so it was after he started going
down a little bit and the wing men then closed up and then the
�other right wingman was flying on the other one and so he finally
was no doubt about it, he was finished. Then the next one started
on fire, smoking and finally the third one started and then I broke
off first because I only had one gun left that was firing which was a
30 caliber wing gun and it sounded awful lonesome out there and
besides they were finished then, so I headed on back to Kunming
and I came over and did a barrel roll and all the rest of them did
too. It was - it's difficult to really put into words your feeling at
that particular moment. You know the adrenaline is going and
things have slowed down sort of into slow motion and I guess it's
the adrenaline that does that.
(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
On my first pass I figured that I would shoot at the leader because
there were only three of them involved and the distance between
the leader and the wing man was quite small being in a close
formation. So I felt that if I aimed at the leader and let my guns
drop back a little bit I could get maybe both of them at the same
time. So each pass I made I was at the leader and I think that I
probably was the one that got the leader.
FRANK BORING:
What did you think of the Japanese pilots that you fought against?
ERIK SHILLING:
The Japanese pilots to me seemed to be extremely disciplined. It's
difficult to say because you see a bomber formation - and I never
was up against fighters - so a bomber formation and the pilots in
that type of formation are a completely different type of man than
the fighter pilot.
FRANK BORING:
What kind of airplanes did you fight against - did the AVG fight
against?
ERIK SHILLING:
We fought against the - what we called - it was a little bit different
than the military called them - we called it the I-96 which is a fixed
gear airplane, and the I-97 and the Zero. Now we didn't claim any
Zeros until about March. We never - in the combat reports they
�were never mentioning Zeros being brought down over Rangoon.
There was one guy by the name of Donovan, who had been in
combat over Rangoon and the Zero was known as a Zeke and the
97 was known as the Oscar. So when he came up against the Zero and I'm convinced that it was a Zero - because he already was in
combat against the Oscar. Now in his combat report he went into
considerable detail telling about the guns and the type of tactics
that he was using and the fact that it was - he even used the correct
nomenclature for the Zero that the Japanese - which A6M2 - and
he even used the correct nomenclature, which leads me to believe
he knew what he was talking about. So it was an entirely different
airplane that he had run across over Rangoon.
FRANK BORING:
Part of the danger in war is not only getting hurt, but also literally
getting killed. Amongst the various people that you found didn't
make it, who would you say sticks out the most - who affected you
the most?
ERIK SHILLING:
The one person that hit me the hardest was Lacey Mangleburg. We
had become extremely close during our training in Toungoo and
the fact that he was on the same flight with me and when he tried
to belly land his airplane and was killed and that affected me - I
felt real bad about it for quite a few months later. I don't suppose it
was until after the AVG was over that I really was able to forget
about it.
FRANK BORING:
I'd like to go through a few of the people that you knew. What was
your evaluation - or perhaps just look it from a personal point of
view during that period of time - of Claire Chennault?
ERIK SHILLING:
I loved the guy. I loved Chennault. The other guy, Harvey
Greenlaw, I think most of us sort of felt that he was somewhat of a
buffoon. I had no - not too much respect for him. Just 180 degrees
opposite of him.
FRANK BORING:
Do you have any comments about Greg Boyington?
�ERIK SHILLING:
Oh Greg I liked very much - when he was sober. He was a
belligerent drunk and whenever he had a couple of drinks, at that
point I would go to the other side of the room or separate myself,
but I liked Greg very much.
FRANK BORING:
How would you evaluate him though as a pilot?
ERIK SHILLING:
He was in a different squadron so I really don't know Greg as a
pilot, so it would be difficult for me to say - it wouldn't even be
second hand because I don't recall anyone talking about Greg as a
pilot.
FRANK BORING:
Why was he discharged - Greg Boyington or Pappy Boyington?
ERIK SHILLING:
In the AVG, which of course was known as the Flying Tigers,
Greg Boyington - we called him Greg - later on when he was with
a younger group, they started calling him Pappy, but we always
referred to Boyington as Greg and I liked the guy very much
although he was a belligerent drunk and every time he had about 2
or 3 drinks he would be wanting or willing to fight anybody in the
crowd so I always - just before he got to that point - I'd leave.
FRANK BORING:
Can you tell us anything about his discharge or his leaving the
unit?
ERIK SHILLING:
I think one of the things that probably caused Greg Boyington to
leave was possibly he was somewhat like a maverick like
Chennault and I believe that there was a personality clash between
the two - this is my opinion, but it could be wrong - and I think that
neither one wanted somebody else with such a strong personality
and I really don't know the exact circumstances of when he left or
what was the crowing blow of why Greg left. But he left I think in
about April.
FRANK BORING:
Your encounter with Clare Boothe Luce?
�ERIK SHILLING:
I met Clare Booth Luce when I was in Cairo picking up one of the
P-40's that I ferried back out to China and it was at the Shepherds?
Hotel and she had taken some pictures there and we got to talking
and I got to like her quite well. She was a very nice person I
thought. When she came to China, it was right after I had made my
ferry flight and the first time I saw her, I was in bed sleeping and
she came and knocked on the door and said "I'm leaving
tomorrow." I didn't have the vaguest idea who it was or anything
else, but anyhow I told her to come in, then I found out who it was
and the next day she took a bunch of pictures of all the guys and
she gave me a complete copy of all the colored pictures she had
taken and it developed into quite a nice friendship. I used to visit
her all the time later on. - I would be getting into the future - that's
why I stopped there.
FRANK BORING:
If you would let us know about the situation about the AVG
toward the end of when you knew that your contracts were running
out. There was the - July 4th was approaching. There was a certain
amount of dissention in the ranks over morale missions that were
being flown and then Bissell arrives and his effect on you.
ERIK SHILLING:
Toward the end of our contract, Chennault at that time was already
in the military and Stillwell was then Commanding Officer and
Stillwell was asking for certain missions to be run regardless of
whether they were practical or not and on one particular mission
that Stillwell wanted us to fly, was a morale booster for the
Chinese troops and this mission was supposed to be flown at at
least - not more than 1000 feet so the troops in the front lines could
recognize the fact that we were friendly airplanes and not the
Japanese. That meant that we would have no top cover because all
the airplanes would be involved, we would have no warning and
our only escape from the Japanese would be to dive away from a
fighter, so we did not want to go on such a mission. Now if it were
a strafing run to go down and strafe the Japanese in their trenches
or wherever they were, there would have been no objection to it,
�but to go down and fly - loiter over the front lines - we felt that we
would be sitting ducks and I'm sure we would have been. We felt
that he was willing to risk our necks to pull his chestnuts out of the
fire and we weren't happy with that situation at all. So Chennault
of course was under his command then and he had to order us to do
what Stillwell wanted. But then, of course we weren't in the
military so we didn't want to do it and finally it was resolved by a
couple of the guys - quite a few of the guys volunteering for it - but
it wasn't very successful and fortunately they weren't jumped.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1938/1991
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English; Chinese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
video; text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v07
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Shilling, Eriksen E.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-09-25
Title
A name given to the resource
Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 7 of 8), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling describes his first taste of battle and his impression of the Japanese pilots and airplanes they fought against. He also describes the loss of Lacy Mangleburg and his impression of General Chennault.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/35baf8c6485fe6f0e0d331bbd76ae755.mp4
7503000ecf199eadb78a6c07654b5bce
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2116da6cd886dee245d6bd30179eb35d.pdf
9e7f0b5152bcbd6c92ba15dbaaefe910
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling
Date of Interview: 09-25-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 6]
ERIK SHILLING:
When we were installing the camera in the P-40 I had made several
trips to Rangoon to check with the RAF because we'd gotten the
cameras from the RAF and on one of these trips I saw a fantastic,
beautiful little airplane called a CW-21 and I wanted to fly it and I
talked to Walt Pentecost and he said that he could arrange it. So the
next trip down I got to fly the airplane and it was so outstanding. It
had a rate of climb of over 5000 feet a minute and compare that to
about 2400 feet a minute with the P-40. So I felt that it would be a
real good interceptor to shoot down observation planes and I went
to Chennault when I returned and talked to him about it and he
thought it was a good idea. So later on, the arrangement had been
made to buy these things, but at the time I wasn't aware that this
arrangement was being made. So that's why we had been ordered
to pick up the CW-21's and take them to Kunming. When I was in
Toungoo, I knew that I wouldn't be going back down - it was a
permanent change of station - so I had a camera and a wind-up
gramophone and a bunch of records and all of my clothes and
everything else. So I put the record player underneath me and put
the records, bundled them up and protected them with clothes and
so forth and the baggage compartment was also loaded, so I had
everything that I could get into the airplane. Then when we were at
Loiwing, as I came back to the airplanes and Lacey's airplane had
already been finished refueling and he took off to check his
airplane and I wanted to brief him, but when the air raid siren
came, we couldn't wait for him and without radio contact I couldn't
�tell him that the Japanese were coming in, so I felt that the best
thing to do was to get airborne and lead him and get away. So we
then departed for Kunming. About an hour into the flight before
the engines started backfiring and I thought everything was fine and when the engines started backfiring I started losing speed and I
knew that Lacey had no briefing whatsoever, didn't have the
vaguest idea what was going on and at that time when I started
looking for a field to set down in, I spotted a CNAC airplane that
was going - had departed Kunming and was going to our
destination - was where we had departed from. So I knew that we
were right on course at that time because he couldn't have been too
far off. So I felt that if I could get these guys to see the airplane,
they would realize that we were okay and if I went down to
continue on and they would be in Kunming within a few minutes.
So when I turned and headed for - unfortunately the CNAC plane
was camouflaged. But anyhow, when I turned to him I didn't even
have enough power to catch the airplane and normally the CW
would have at least 100 miles an hour on him. So when I was
losing ground and I wiggled my wings and pointed, hoping that
they could see the airplane, but unknown to me I had already lost
Ken as I turned and he was …
(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
So when I pointed to the transport and felt that they had seen the
airplane, then I turned around and went back on course to
Kunming. It wasn't about 5 minutes later that I didn't even have
enough power to maintain my altitude and I started descending and
I either had to bail out or belly land and I didn't want to bail out
and I spotted a clearing off to the left and I started gliding toward
this clearing. The clearing was on the side of a mountain about
maybe 1000 feet down below the top and one thing that saved my
neck here was the fact that I was over-shooting and I had to dive,
try to get into this clearing and the more I dove, the more speed I
got. But this - when I got there I was over-shooting so badly, that
with the excess speed I was able to parallel the mountain and just
mush into the trees and I remember looking at the air speed just as
�I hit and it was set at 100 miles an hour. So then when I hit the
trees and the airplane started bouncing around and everything,
everything went black, although I wasn't unconscious but I was
aware of the airplane and the only thought that kept going through
my mind was when is this damn thing gonna stop. When it finally
came to a stop I jumped out of the airplane without thinking and
ran down this slope to this open area and when I got there Lacey
Mangleburg was circling and I had mentioned that Lacey, if I have
a - I was having engine problems so I said, Lacey if I go down,
throw me your gun and he agreed, so as he came over the last time,
he had the canopy rolled back and I could see he had his hand over
the side and dropped the gun and when the gun went below the top
of a mountain in the distance, I lost it. But I could hear it hit in the
brush, so I spent about 30 minutes looking for it and I still couldn't
find it and it was getting drizzle and colder and I sort of decided I'd
go back up to the airplane and when I got there the airplane was the whole ground was flooded with gasoline. So I then decided it
would be better to stay away from the airplane for a bit and I
stayed underneath another tree there until it got real dark and I
started hearing noises in the woods and decided it would be safer
to get in the airplane than it was out here underneath this tree. So I
spent the night in the tree and I pulled the parachute and I wrapped
up in it, trying to keep warm, but anyhow I didn't sleep worth a
damn and the next morning I was real thirsty and I started using
the leaves off the trees, licking those and trying to get some
moisture from them and about this time a native and a little kid
about 8 or 9 years old came up the trail. The airplane had come to
rest only about 20 miles from this trail and when they got within
about 20 or 30 feet from me, it was the first time they sort of
noticed my standing there, and they came to an abrupt stop and I
had a passport in my pocket and I reached in because it had some
Chinese writing on it and I reached in and I guess they thought I
was reaching for a gun and they ran. So there I was by myself, but
about maybe 45 minutes they came back with maybe 100 or couple
of hundred people. One of these guys was a real belligerent ass and
he got up close to me and he was talking to me in Chinese and I
�didn't know what he was saying and I was trying to answer him in
English and I used one word that I knew like "Megwo Ren" means
American, but with 400 or so dialects it didn't mean anything to
him either. Then I happened to think of this passport again with the
Chinese chop there and I reached in and gave it to him and he took
it upside down and he was a big shot - so when he took it upside
down and he was thumbing through it, I was frustrated and angry
and I snatched it away from him and I turned it around and said
"Here, you stupid s.o.b." and gave it back to him and everyone
there just broke out in laughter and he lost so much face that he
disappeared in the crowd. So from that moment on the crowd
became more friendly. But he was working them up into a sort of
an angry mob and I was really concerned about my life. Anyhow,
with him gone, they still built a stockade, cut trees down, built a
stockade around the airplane and I was told to stay inside there and
they covered the airplane up so it couldn't be seen from above, and
this was sort of my first indication that they thought I was maybe
Japanese. These people were in such a remote area that they had
never seen a Caucasian before and they did know that they were at
war with Japan and here I was certainly not a Chinese and I was
flying in an airplane with guns and so they put two and two
together and got the fact that I was Japanese and my hunch was
correct - which I found out later on. But then when they didn't
bother me I thought well maybe they're gonna hold me for ransom,
because I'd read Terry and the Pirates and stuff like this and so I
felt I didn't know when I would get back. But anyhow that night
they built a fire and had a kettle and each one of them had a little
pouch and they put rice and vegetables and just boiled it in this
kettle and they all had rice bowls and they gave me a bowl of rice
and I had the only chop sticks amongst the crowd and they cut
down some twigs off some trees and used them as chop sticks and
these guys were almost Neanderthal types and as they were eating
and they'd see my bowl getting a little - they'd suck on the sticks
until they were clean and then they'd reach in this thing and give
me some more food and that sort of spoiled my appetite. So
anyhow, it was late the next day that I saw a distinct change in
�their attitude toward me and what happened was that I had landed
near a warning net station and the warning net was the last one that
had reported me and they told all the natives to be on the lookout
for me, that I was fighting for them. So then they built a sedan
chair to carry me in and out of part of the parachute and the shroud
lines, they put all of my clothes and bundles of stuff wrapped up in
the parachute and they took the machine gun ammunition out of
the guns and carried that too. So then we started down this trail and
in one place - I wanted to walk but they wouldn't let me - it was
quite apparent now that it was an honor to carry me. So in some of
the gullies, it was a real deep ravine and the first guy would go into
the apex of this thing and then they would both back up a little bit
and this guy would go out and come around and then he would
have to back up for the rear guy to get into the apex, and here I was
hanging out over this damn ravine a couple hundred feet down
below me and I wanted to walk in the worst kind of way. But the
thing was so narrow that I couldn't have gotten out at this point.
But anyhow we got to the village late that night and that's when I
found out - although the Chinese radio operator couldn't speak
English, he had a Chinese/English dictionary and I was able to
thumb through that and then he would thumb through it and I got
the gist of the fact that yes, they did think I was Japanese. But
anyhow we left the next morning and it wasn't until I saw Doc
Rich and Ken Merritt that that's when I found out that Lacey had
been killed. They both, for some reason or other had - they were
within about 5 minutes of Kunming and yet they elected to try to
attempt a landing and had they continued on, they would have been
able to see the big Lake at Kunming within about 5 minutes.
(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
About the same time that they were building the stockade around
me, I decided to start unpacking the airplane and then…
(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
About this time they started building a stockade around the
airplane and myself…
�(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
As the natives descended upon me and the airplane, they built a
stockade around the airplane and they didn't seem to be very
friendly and they even covered up the airplane with some leaves so
it couldn't be seen from above and this was sort of my first
intimation that I was being taken for Japanese rather than who I
was, because they had never seen white people in this area - they
were very, very remote and backward at this place. When they
were building the stockade, I started taking stuff out of my airplane
and when I offloaded my Victrola I decided maybe if I started
playing that it would sort of take their mind off me. So fortunately,
none of the records were even broken and I just picked one of the
records out and it happened to be a record very appropriate to the
situation called "High on a Windy Hill" and every time somebody
new came up I would have to play this record for them. In those
days you had the needle would only last one record, so you can
imagine I had very few needles and by the end of the day you
could hardly distinguish what was being played, but they would
look in there and even feel and wondering what was - were there
little men in there or what I don't know.
FRANK BORING:
After coming back from that incident…
(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
Some people seemed to think and I really don't know - I didn't
have what was later on referred to as a blood chit and had I had
this blood chit it would have certainly been handy and we were
later issued this blood chit which said that we are flying for the
Chinese and that if we go down to help them and there would be a
reward for helping us to get back to Kunming or the headquarters
or notify some Chinese soldiers and so on. So it's possible that this
was as a result of that but I don't know.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1938/1991
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English; Chinese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
video; text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v06
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Shilling, Eriksen E.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-09-25
Title
A name given to the resource
Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 6 of 8), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling describes the time he was ordered to pick up CW-21 airplanes and take them to Kunming when his airplane went down in a remote area due to engine problems and he survived among the native people.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a99ae959ccb16420360a0aa1133aaca2.mp4
dcec33cfcd4566c286d3905a0e79370e
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d3fb72a68f41095eecb86fa132e721a9.pdf
f2b61113bae47e80b0a5518ea10b555d
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling
Date of Interview: 09-25-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 5]
FRANK BORING:
If you could explain to us to the best of your knowledge the origin
of the Panda Bear?
ERIK SHILLING:
The three squadrons - the Third Squadron was the Hell's Angels, it
was a very shapely girl, red with white wings painted on the side of
the fuselage, just forward to the cockpit; the Second Squadron was
a panda bear and to the best of my knowledge it was drawn by Bert
Christman, who had been a cartoonist who was drawing Scorchy
Smith; and the First Squadron was a man chasing a woman
superimposed on a large green apple, which was the first pursuit
and they were called the Adam and Eve's. The panda bear was of
course a symbol of China and the second group felt that that was
somehow or other we had to get China in there as well.
(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
The Second Squadron was the panda bear, it was a symbol of
China and it was drawn by Bert Christman, who was an artist who
had been drawing a comic strip back here in the States by the name
of Scorchy Smith. He also did a lot of sketching of different
scenes, Burmese people, etc. and I used to see some of them. They
were very well done and quite interesting. I often what ever
happened to those pictures or drawings that he had made out there.
FRANK BORING:
One of the things that happened during the training there, was not
only damage of airplanes but there were actual fatalities. If you
�could describe in terms of your own personal reaction to the deaths
themselves, the effect on you, the effect on morale. Realizing the
seriousness of what was to come.
ERIK SHILLING:
Well I was group engineering for a while and whenever we would
have these accidents I would have to go along to try to decide or
determine what was the cause of the accident. Also Doc Gentry
was another one who was on the accident investigation board and
we had - I can't remember the sequence now of them - but two
most impressive accidents was this Max Hammer, who had gotten
caught in one of the real bad thunderstorms we had and one
evening after we were all in he didn't show up and it wasn't until
later on that night when a native came in and said that this airplane
had crashed near his village. So he volunteered to take us to the
crash and we didn't get there to the crash until maybe 11 or 12
o'clock at night and after this downpour of rain, everything was
flooded and sometimes we were walking up to our knees through
water and it was about 3 or 4 miles out into the jungle off the road.
When we got there the airplane had crashed practically just straight
in because we could tell from the high jungle trees how it had
descended. It almost came in vertical. He hit so hard that it looked
like about a thousand pound bomb had exploded. The mud and dirt
was thrown out, the airplane crushed down upon itself and the
wings they were only about this long because they'd crumbled
down on to themselves. I know that he didn't know what the heck
ever hit him. Then the next accident we had was on a Sunday.
(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
An accident we had was also quite impressive because everyone on
the base heard it coming. It was on a Sunday morning and Pete
Atkinson was on a test flight. He was the only airplane that was
flying that day and he had mentioned to the mechanics on the
ground that "I'm gonna wake up the boys in the barracks" so he
meant that he was gonna go up and give us a buzz job and I was
awake but I was lying on the bunk - trying to keep cool with heat and the first thing I heard was the prop noise of the airplane. Now
�the P-40 never had prop noise. In other words, the RPM of the
propeller wasn't high enough for the propeller to make the noise,
so when this prop noise - it was so unusual that all of us ran out to
see what was happening. But before we got out there, we heard this
muffled boom and it wasn't until years later that I found out that he
possibly - some of the airplane was sonic - and it was a sonic boom
that we had actually heard. So what happened was that the airplane
just completely disintegrated and part of it - the engine had landed
on a rice husk - a mound of rice husks maybe about 40 or 50 feet
high, so it was completely intact, so was the propeller, it was all in
one piece. Pete Atkinson was thrown out of the airplane. He was
still strapped in his seat, so he was unconscious certainly at that
time or killed, I don't know. The airplane also landed and when we
ran out we could just see parts of the airplane just fluttering down.
So the only thing that we could determine was the fact that he had
just gone way over red line and of course a red line was 480 miles
an hour and he must have been going maybe 50 miles an hour on
top of that, I don't know. But perhaps some part of the airplane had
flown - a piece had flown open or something and the wind caught
in then just disintegrated it.
FRANK BORING:
What was the effect of these accidents on your fellow pilots or on
you?
ERIK SHILLING:
My own personal feeling of every accident that I've ever heard of,
you always wanted to try to find out what happened and mainly although I hate to say this - but you were somewhat relieved when
you heard that it was pilot error and the reason I say this is you felt
then if it were pilot error, you wouldn't do that. Now if it were
something like a malfunction or something like this, then it could
happen to you. But every time you heard that it was pilot error, you
sort of got hardened to it and felt well hell, I won't do that - it won't
happen to me.
FRANK BORING:
By this time you were all getting fairly proficient in the P-40. A lot
of the accidents were not as frequent and you guys were getting
�very good at it. Just prior to hearing about Pearl Harbor, what was
the mood, what were you feeling like? You were hearing stories of
the Japanese were advancing in various areas. What was your
mood, you're in an airplane now and you're ready to fight, what's
happening?
ERIK SHILLING:
It was one of excitement really and wondering. Of course we
weren't always able to get all of the stories and many of the guys,
we had a sort of a newspaper and we'd get this stuff from our local
newspaper and then from the newspapers of Burma that were in
English. I happened to be in Rangoon at the time, spent the night
there and the next day I heard that the Japanese had bombed Pearl
Harbor and so my thought was my immediate need was to get back
to Toungoo and when I got back there, I left very early that
morning and Chennault already had dawn to dusk patrol protecting
Toungoo, because we had no warning there. The British had an
early version of radar at Rangoon, but it was not completely
dependable and the range was not too great either, maybe between
50 and 75 miles. So our warning was not too long a time and I
guess it - I can't recall anyone remarking about the war at all. We
just felt that now we're here and gonna have to do what we
originally came for, but now there were other people involved
besides us. It was sort of watered down what we would probably
be up against.
FRANK BORING:
What were the following days like? It happened the December 8th
your time, but people didn't start to see action until the 20th. What
was that period of time like in terms of anticipation? Because you
really thought the Japanese were coming.
ERIK SHILLING:
We went on a photo recon flight. It was Bert Christman, Ed Rector
and myself and it was on the photo ship that we had converted - so
anyhow we went to Rangoon and then from Rangoon we went to a
place called Tavoy. This was on December 10th and Chennault
wanted to find out what the disposition was and what to expect and
we left Tavoy, climbed up to 26,000 feet and when about 50 miles
�out I took over the lead and then Bert and Ed dropped back about
500 feet and 700 feet above me to protect me because I was busy
directing the camera and getting the airplane set right over the top
of the target and I couldn't be looking around for Japanese
incoming. So I first took a picture along the whole dock of
Bangkok, taking pictures of whatever ships were in the harbor and
then from there I turned north and went to the airport there called
Don Muang and in the photo there were 92 airplanes almost wing
tip to wing tip. They'd moved in that fast by December 10th and
one of the things - I had to rock the airplane up to knife edge
because you're sitting right over the top of the wing and to get to
position the airplane you had to go knife edge to get the airplane
and then I would start the picture going and it was automatic then
and then when you finished your photo run, you'd turn it off. What
happened was on this knife edge the oil pump was uncovered and
it started pumping air, consequently the oil pressure went down to
zero, but while I was doing this I wasn't aware of it, so then when I
turned and started back to Rangoon, I looked down and the oil
pressure gauge was on zero and I thought what the - a hell of a way
to start a war, that I would wind up already as a prisoner of war.
But then the oil pressure started fluctuating and my heart rate went
down as the pressure went up and it finally went back to normal.
So I started a descent and we were indicating about 400 miles an
hour, so the Japanese would never be able to catch us and we
wound up back over the coast at about 10,000 feet and went on in
to Rangoon and there the pictures were developed by the RAF and
it showed the Jap airplanes by that time. We couldn't tell how
many were in the hangars but there were quite a few hangars there
too, so the hangars very possibly were also full.
FRANK BORING:
Did you ever have a chance to talk to Chennault about - did you
actually sit down with him and go over these photographs with him
or did he pretty much take them off to the side?
�ERIK SHILLING:
No, they were taken over sort of by Harvey Greenlaw and some
other of the staff. No I didn't get to talk to him about the
photographs at all after I brought them back.
FRANK BORING:
What was your reaction to seeing all those Japanese planes all in a
row?
ERIK SHILLING:
Just wishing that we had a bomber, because what a setup it would
have been if we just had a few B-25's at that time. Of course the
British had the Blenheim's and they were antiquated bombers at
that time, very slow. So we were just wishing we'd had bombers.
(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
After I turned north to photograph the airport at Don Muang, the
weather was extremely clear and you could see maybe 75 miles, so
it was easy to distinguish stuff on the ground and I could see that
all these bombers which were verified in the photos later on, there
were 92 of them. Of course at that time I didn't count them, but
they were just parked wing tip to wing tip and I was just wished
instead of being in a fighter, that's the only time I ever wished I'd
been in a bomber. If we could drop a couple of bombs right in the
middle of that thing, it would have made our job later on much
easier.
FRANK BORING:
After this period of time you were transferred to Third Squadron.
ERIK SHILLING:
After the photo mission I had requested to go with the Third
Squadron and fortunately it was accepted and so I went down to
Rangoon when the Third Squadron was ordered down and while
we were there, we went on a couple of false alarms and then on the
22nd I got word that the CW-21's that I had to Chennault about and
had flown, had been purchased by the Chinese and three of us were
to fly the CW-21's to Kunming. So on the 23rd we left just about
daylight and flew from Rangoon to Toungoo and we had to have
some maintenance work done on them and also some long-range
�tanks installed. They were long-range droppable wing tanks. So we
left - and the Japanese hit Rangoon at about 10:30, so we
fortunately got out of Rangoon before the Japanese hit us on the
23rd. Then when they were working on the CW-21's is when we
heard that Rangoon had been hit. Then we felt that we had to get
out of Toungoo as well because Toungoo had no warning net at all.
So after the tanks were finished and installed, and the few things
that we could do there, we left. But we didn't have any radios in
the airplanes because all of the radios would have to wait because
they'd been taken to Kunming. So we took off from Lashio - I
mean Toungoo for Lashio, which is about 150 miles north of
Toungoo and on the way to Lashio, my engine backfired a couple
of times and so when we landed at Lashio one of our crew chiefs, a
fellow by the name of George Bailey, happened to meet the
airplane and I talked it over with him about the backfiring and we
came to a sort of mutual conclusion - the airplane should have used
what we called 80-87 octane fuel and the P-40's needed 100-115
octane fuel and the higher octane can burn the exhaust valves and
with the higher heat it also sometimes the exhaust valves would
stick and that's what caused the backfiring. So we decided to drain
the high octane fuel out and put in the fuel that was required and
also there were no maps available for the hump trip to Kunming
and I felt that possibly we could get the maps in Lashio. Well when
I got there another disappointment, they didn't have maps there
either. So the only maps that we had for this flight was a pencil
drawing of the route and it showed Lashio and it showed Kunming
330 miles and a heading of about 60 degrees and then there was a
line that went up like this and then on back down - that represented
the Burma Road and then there were a couple of lines that were
rivers and that was all we had to navigate with. Now I had been to
Kunming once before, but that was on top of an overcast, so I
didn't get to see very much of it. So when - Lacey was the first
airplane to be defueled and refueled and when Ken Merritt's
airplane was finished they had come over to mine and about this
time, Lacey had taken off. Now I didn't know that he was gonna
take off, I thought he was going down to the end of the runway and
�check his mags and stuff and see how the fuel was doing, so he
took off and I was really disappointed because without the maps
now I knew that I would have to brief them as much as I could
about the trip.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1938/1991
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
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video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
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English; Chinese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
video; text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v05
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Shilling, Eriksen E.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-09-25
Title
A name given to the resource
Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 5 of 8), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling discusses the origin of the Panda Bear representing the Second Squadron, in addition to his personal reaction to the fatalities among the pilots and the photo reconnaissance flight he took with Bert Christman and Ed Rector.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d16cbfa5c6474bef5e4a46082ee1025e.mp4
bf06fc6e5fd63279bcfd19f879294419
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/99f788a20d8d929fc27b544b1337f379.pdf
979ec67dd6e35a40b9bc5e20aa76091c
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling
Date of Interview: 09-25-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 4]
FRANK BORING:
We're gonna start off with why you think Chennault asked you to
be in this dogfight and if it is applicable, the incident in which you
lost the engine - you said you were losing an engine - if you could
go into detail about that. Why do you think Chennault asked you to
be in the dogfight against the RAF?
ERIK SHILLING:
I hate to say this, but I think I was pretty good. I think that the roll
that I did impressed Chennault.
(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
I think the reason Chennault may have asked me to dogfight the
pilot in the Brewster Buffalo was - possibly three different things.
One, was I had been in a dogfight with Frank Schiel and I had
gotten on Frank's tail and he had gotten into an unusual position
and couldn't get out and he had to bail out of the airplane, so
Chennault knew that I'd won that combat and then the other thing
was my first flight in the P-40 I'd taken off and climbed up through
a fairly thin overcast - the overcast was about 6000 feet high and it
was only about 1000 feet thick - and I just climbed up through it
and when I got to about 10,000 feet, just all hell broke loose, the
airplane started shaking and the smoke was filling the cockpit, so I
reached down and I turned the gas off and the switches off and
everything I could think of to turn off, and I knew that being on top
of the overcast, but I knew that I had just climbed up through so I
reversed my course and dove down through it so I wouldn't get too
�far away, because there were mountains on both sides of Toungoo
- fairly high. So I dove down through this overcast and about 3 or 4
miles ahead of me I was headed right toward the airport going
about 90 degrees to the runway and as I came over the field, of
course it was still smoking and oil was pouring out of it and I guess
everyone on the field was aware that I was having a problem, and
with the excess speed I was able to make a regular pattern and
come in and land. When I landed there was a high speed taxi way
that led up to the maintenance hangar and I still had enough speed
to go up there and I parked the airplane without any engine right in
front of the hangar so they could work on it. So a lot of the guys
were sort of - mainly the ground crew were rather impressed about
that particular flight.
FRANK BORING:
During the dogfight itself, if you could give us some idea of what
actually happened in the dogfight.
ERIK SHILLING:
In a dogfight, what you try to do of course is get the most out of
your airplane and that is - verges on uncontrollable. In other words,
at one stage as you're pulling into a real tight turn, if you go a little
bit too far, then you've lost it and you stall and you lose ground or
you might even lose altitude. So it's a matter of real fine touch with
your airplane and getting the utmost from it. The other thing that I
used to do was to turn in a circle from here to a sort of a 45 degree
angle and then up at the top of the turn, I would purposely stall the
airplane and try to snap roll it and cut diagonally across the circle
and I would continue each time and I would cut it and chew off a
little bit more of the circle until I finally got around. Once you're
sort of on the guy's tail, then it's easier because any mistake he
makes - and he's going to be doing his best - so then all you have
to do is just stay in there. So consequently, once you're on his tail
you've got it made and it's just a matter of just gradually working
around. But it's getting on the other guy's tail that both of you are
trying your best. Then when you get there, you're trying to wait for
the other guy to make a mistake and from then on, as I say, you've
got it made. One of the things that he did try to do, was he dumped
�his gear and threw his flaps down trying to get me to overrun, but
what I did instead of overrunning, I just pulled up high enough, got
some altitude to see what he was gonna do and then when he
decided what to do, I was back down on his tail.
FRANK BORING:
When you finally landed, did you get a chance to talk to him, did
you guys discuss the thing?
ERIK SHILLING:
No, I didn't get a chance to talk to him. I wish I could have. I
talked to him before we had the combat because we had to arrange
certain things like how we were going to conduct it and stuff like
this, but after the dogfight I didn't get to talk to him.
FRANK BORING:
You made a statement earlier that the main thing that he had going
against him was the Brewster Buffalo, so could you give us some
idea of your evaluation of the Brewster Buffalo?
ERIK SHILLING:
The Buffalo didn't have top speed. Its speed was maybe within 5
miles of the Zero and maybe had 10 miles on the Oscar, the Oscar
is the Nakajima and a Zeke is a Zero. So it had maybe 10 miles on
the Oscar and maybe 2 or 3 miles on the Zero. It could not out turn
either one of them, nor could we, but it couldn't dive because the
big built-in head wind, the radial engine, its diveability was not
anywhere near the P-40 nor would it accelerate in the dive although the 40 was heavy, it was clean and it would pick up speed
very rapidly. So those guys both in the Hurricane and in the
Buffalo really didn't have much of a chance. I really felt sorry for
the guys because later on when they started being shot down, I
don't know what I would have done had I been in their shoes.
FRANK BORING:
You also said the RAF was sort of forced dogfight because of the
[?].
ERIK SHILLING:
The RAF, when they were fighting against the Japanese, were
more or less forced into dogfight - if you don't have speed on the
other plane, then you have to rely on the dogfight because you
�can't escape, so you're then at their mercy and so your only
alternative then is to dogfight and try to turn in the best you can
and it's just a losing battle really when it comes right down to it.
The only time that they would really - I feel - shoot down any of
the airplanes was if they happened to have altitude which would
give them speed and surprise. I think that most of their victories
were because of surprise, not the fact that the Japanese had seen
them at about the same time. If that occurred, why then they had a
problem.
FRANK BORING:
During this period of time of training…
(break)
FRANK BORING:
Give us the reaction of the guys when you landed.
ERIK SHILLING:
Some of the guys remarked at the time that they thought that
Squadron Leader Brandt had made a couple of mistakes and
another guy said that he thought that he didn't approach the combat
like a Tiger and my feeling and comment would be that first of all I
don't think he made any mistakes, because from my position up
there, I thought that his only mistake was the fact that he was in a
Brewster Buffalo and not in a P-40. Had we both been in P-40's, he
could have - I don't know - I don't think he could have beat me, but
possibly. He would have had a better chance. Then the other thing
was, how can you be a Tiger when you're flying what I consider a
wet noodle. He was not by any means a neophyte. As I said, he
also had been an ace before he came out there in the Battle of
Britain, so he knew what combat was about.
FRANK BORING:
During this period of time of training I understand that a lot of
these men had never flown a P-40 before and they have different
characteristics. If you can give us the perspective, give us an idea
of you, yourself being there, you got a chance to fly and you did
fairly well in it, but give us an evaluation, your perspective of the
training of these other people. There were a lot of crashes,
�Chennault at one point got very upset and grounded everybody, we
need to get a better perspective of that.
ERIK SHILLING:
I really don't understand why some of these guys had problems
with the P-40. But the problems that they did have was leveling off
too high and that could have been a carry-over from flying boats
which are setting up much higher and the other thing was why they
were over-shooting - that might stem from an Eagle thing because many pilots when they come in high and overshoot,
hesitate to go around, which they should. Lots of times a guy
would run off the end of the runway because he was hesitant to go
around. So I suggested to Chennault to paint a white line on each
approach end about 600 meters in or so and get the guys that if
they didn't have the wheels on the ground and under control at that
point, that they should go around. And Chennault instilled us - now
some of the guys were a little bit angry at first about my suggesting
this, I don't know whether they knew that it was from me or not,
but they weren't too happy about being treated as kindergarten in
the airplane - but it worked. So they stopped overshooting and
running off the end of the runway. One particular fellow - and this
is sometimes the type of accidents that would happen - one guy, as
he was taxiing in started filling out his log book - he knows who he
is, but I won't mention it - and ran into a ditch and of course nosed
up and got the propeller. So these things were extremely frustrating
for Chennault. Another time one of the mechanics was driving
along, riding his bike, going pretty fast and watching an airplane
come in for a landing and ran into the aileron and damaged the
aileron, so that airplane was out of commission for about a week
while they were repairing the aileron. Of course he cracked a
couple of ribs and so forth and he was sore, but Chennault was
even sorer yet. I sort of wonder if any lesser man had these
problems that he had, I would almost think that he would throw up
his hands and say I quit. I think I would have.
FRANK BORING:
To give us a better perspective of why he was so frustrated, could
you give us a better idea of the supply situation at the time? When
�an airplane would turn over like that or a propeller would be
damaged, why didn't you just call up the Sears and Roebuck and
have them bring one down?
ERIK SHILLING
Our supply line was at the very end. We were just about half way
around the world from either way. One example - we had two big
problems - one example was tires. We were wearing the tires out
and we even went to the extreme of trying to glue with rubber
cement some cups on it to try to pre-rotate the wheel before
touchdown so it wouldn't wear the tires out as badly. We were
flying with even the cords showing on it. Although I don't believe
any of them ever blew out a tire, but that was just good luck. The
other was that we also started having spark plug problems and a
Pan American Clipper had a full load of tires and it was turned
around because of Pearl Harbor and so that had to be turned around
and then those same tires had to come across Africa and India to
get to us. So we had a real problem - another thing we had a
problem with the guns - the guns were a different caliber and some
of the ammunition was a problem. In other words, one of the things
that we had was - if you charged the guns, once it had been
charged and you re-charged it, which a lot of times we would
originally do, the ammunition would be hot and sometimes it
would sit there and cook off - cook off means that it would get so
hot that it would explode and the bullet would go out and
sometimes this would hit your own propeller. So lots of times you
would re-charge it before this would happen to keep a cool bullet
or shell in there and what happened on quite a number of cases was
that the crimping on the projectile wasn't good so when it went in
and you pulled the shell back out, it would leave the projectile in
there and then the next shell that went home wouldn't seat and so
that gun would be out of commission. So finally it got to the point
that we would not attempt to charge them. Although we did get a
couple of our airplanes had bullet holes from their own gun in the
propeller.
�FRANK BORING:
During this period of time with the training, you weren't always
training, there was other activities going on. As a pilot you only
had so many pilots to so many airplanes. During this period of time
you came up with the names of the squadrons and also distinctive
markings on the airplanes. I wonder if you could go into an
explanation of how the squadron names came up and how the
design came up and some of the distinctive markings?
ERIK SHILLING:
The squadron insignias - at the time when we were developing
those, I was with the Second Squadron for a short period of time
and we didn't have a squadron insignia and I had been along with
Ken Merritt and Lacey Mangleburg, we had been to a dinner at a
Reverend Kline and on there he had a Sunday supplement and in
the Sunday supplement there was a picture of a Messerschmitt 110
and they had what I call the rotogravure section, it was a sepia
colored picture just photographs. Now apparently Charlie Mott
was there - I mean Charlie Bond and several of the other guys were
there too. But anyhow the next day I went out to the airfield along
with Lacey and Ken, we'd stopped by the lecture hall and I'd
picked up a piece of chalk and being the only artist in the crowd, I
drew the shark's teeth on the airplane and I went to Chennault and
asked him if we could use that as a squadron insignia and his
answer was that he would rather have it as a group insignia. I
understand - of course there were quite a few of the guys there
looking at these shark's teeth airplanes, so there were other guys
who very possibly were doing the same thing at the same time. So
I don't really know who really was the first. I know that I did that,
that morning and possibly some of the other guys did it too.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1938/1991
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English; Chinese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
video; text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v04
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Shilling, Eriksen E.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-09-25
Title
A name given to the resource
Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 4 of 8), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling discusses dogfighting for General Chennault and the training the AVG experienced at the time, in addition to how the squadron insignias came into existence.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
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video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/94c1dfd1930f3e3685a2c71f41f3550e.mp4
1ee7e0cd962c12c65e2cd9411ea49649
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c514e1682871e1a210d036de9f733eae.pdf
7c0b9d5b3e41bf372be284d607b230fc
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling
Date of Interview: 09-25-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 3]
ERIK SHILLING:
During - I don't know who it was, but someone arranged for a man
and woman, Burmese, to give a demonstration and a show with
some snakes and they had some real long King Cobras and so on
and she would - one of the things that she did was - to us most
impressive - was to put her hands behind her back and lean way
over and actually kiss the head of this cobra. So the other thing that
impressed me though was how they knew how to handle the cobras
and for instance, when the cobra was up like this, when it would
start to strike it seemed like all they had to do was touch the snake
on its belly and it would withdraw to maybe strike again. The other
thing they would do - the same thing when they were standing they
could put their toe of their foot to the side and touch the snake on
its belly and the snake would also stop.
FRANK BORING:
If you could give us a clearer picture of the conditions in Toungoo
at the time?
ERIK SHILLING:
Another thing which is most impressive was the frequency which
many of us were plagued with diarrhea or dysentery and the toilets
were separate from the main barracks there and there were only
about 4 of them for each barracks and sometimes when dysentery
would hit, they of course were completely full, so then you would
have to revert to the jungle, which was not too far away from our
barracks and we were always plagued with dysentery, the whole
time I was out there. Although the medical group always tried to
�do the best they could in purifying the water and seeing that our
food was the best, but then many of us would go to town and have
drinks at the railway station there or other places and most
Americans always insist on ice anyhow, so lots of times the water
we got away from the base was probably the contaminating part
that caused this diarrhea. And then of course the change of diet and
things like this. The food wasn't the greatest. One of the humorous
parts about it was that we used to put ketchup on practically
everything and believe me, it must be real bad when you're putting
ketchup on cauliflower to disguise the damn taste. But that's how
bad - how much the guys would do to make the food a little bit
more palatable. Of course our meat was water buffalo and it was
really tough. It made a man turn vegetarian - but then the
vegetables weren't cooked too good either.
FRANK BORING:
How about the weather and just the general conditions of your
daily life in terms of your clothes and washing?
ERIK SHILLING:
We all had problems with dampness and what we had was all of
our dressers had a light bulb in them. If you didn't put your stuff in
there, you would have mold overnight. But our bed sheets were
always sort of damp and of course it was pretty hot and humid and
then when the monsoons hit, the downpour would just be
unbelievable. We'd never seen anything like it and sometimes
you'd have 24 inches in 24 hours or stuff like that and that's when
these ditches would be overcome and couldn't carry off all the
water. A couple of times some of the monsoons caused some of the
guys’ accidents. One in particular, a fellow by the name of Max
Hammer went in and I guess lost control in the middle of a
thunderstorm and was killed.
FRANK BORING:
What was your reaction to all this? You had a certain anticipation
of getting there, you had a job to do, what was your reaction to all
this?
�ERIK SHILLING:
Really, the whole thing was so doggone interesting that it was
really - I was afraid of missing something, so I was always looking
around for the brighter side of life I guess, because I didn't want to
miss anything. To the most part, it was really a lot of fun, I mean
the excitement and the experience was something that I had never
run across. Here we were being paid and when you get a group of
guys like this, even a multi-millionaire can't duplicate it. In other
words, you can go on a trip or something like this, but you don't
have a bunch of guys all interested in the same thing and have the
comradery that develops in situations like this, so it's for the most
part, a very pleasant experience, coupled with some difficult
situations and some people who were killed. You felt bad about it,
but the excitement of the thing was the foremost.
FRANK BORING:
Let's now get into the formal duties that you were going - you were
now being trained in an airplane that you'd never flown before.
You were at this time getting classes in tactics, could you give us
an idea of the early days when you first got there and began your
training? What was it like and what were you actually doing?
ERIK SHILLING:
When I first got to Toungoo actually it was an RAF base…
(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
When I first got to Toungoo it was a city - or little village and it
was an RAF training camp called Keydaw and that's where
Chennault had arranged to have us housed and the use of the
airfield there. The field was about 4000 foot macadam strip and
one hangar and then there were some buildings that he used for
lecture hall - this was on the other side of where our barracks were
and then when we first got there, there was only one P-40 so we
didn't do any flying until - and there were some P-40's in Rangoon
ready to come up, but we had to get some pilots available to fly
them. So the guys who had flown P-40's before got a brief
checkout and then were sent down to Rangoon to ferry the P-40's
up and then as each guy got checked out they would be sent down
�to pick up the airplanes too. When we first got there Chennault was
not there, when I first arrived, he came down later on. My first
meeting with Chennault - I had been to Rangoon picking up a P-40
and on Sunday I came back and I went up to about 16 - 18
thousand feet and I dove down and they were playing softball and I
went over the softball maybe about 50 feet off the ground doing
red line speed which was 480 miles an hour and I pulled it up and
did a vertical roll and then went on in and landed. When I landed
the mechanics that met me said Chennault got in last night and I
said "Oh my God" and so - because of lack of transportation, we'd
all gone into town earlier of course and bought bicycles and now
most of us had bicycles and we rode all over the place on them - so
I jumped on my bike and got to the baseball field and Chennault
was pitching - he used to like to pitch - and so I stood on the
sidelines waiting to get my butt chewed and when he retired the
side he came right directly toward me and it was a big surprise - he
says "That was a nice roll Shilling." So from then on, that guy was
- I loved him.
FRANK BORING:
Once he arrived there, did he begin the courses? And if he did, can
you give us an idea of what it was like to be in one of his classes?
ERIK SHILLING:
Not too long after we got there, he started his lecture series…
(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
Not too much longer after we got to Toungoo and Chennault came
down from Kunming, where he had been, he started a lecture series
about the Japanese, the people of Japan as well and the background
of the Japanese people and the airplanes, each individual airplane,
what we could expect from each airplane, what we could expect
from the pilots and how they were somewhat regimented, but
occasionally they would go off on a tangent. I used to enjoy his
lectures because he was a good speaker, good lecturer. They were
always so terribly interesting and especially the way he presented
them. It was almost like everything that he told us, like he was
�there, an eyewitness account of everything that came about. Like
he would tell us about where the guns were on specific airplanes,
the size of the guns, and how fast the airplanes were, and what to
expect from this kind of airplane, and where was the best way to
attack for the least vulnerability to us, and their most vulnerable
spot, and what to expect from the Japanese fighters. The main
thing that came out of the whole thing was that it was a very
simple tactic and it was so simple I think some of the guys even
may have forgotten that it was a tactic, but that was don't ever turn
with the enemy. You couldn't turn or try to dog fight.
FRANK BORING:
I'd like you to explain in a little more detail why that was such a
major tactical move. If you could explain in just a little more detail
about when somebody gets on your tail what you're supposed to
do.
ERIK SHILLING:
One of the things that - I'll tell you a little bit about bombers and
how to attack them and the one bomber that we were up against
only had a single gun and what Chennault called a dustbin, it
wasn't a turret, but it was mounted on springs or on rubber and the
turret gunner would aim that gun with a rudder, sort of a rudder
pedal and get it in toward the attacking plane and the springs
would spray that area. It wasn't very effective and of course that's
where we used to attack it. Now possibly you may have seen
occasionally where you see a camera gun, a ship coming in against
a fighter and it looks like the bomber is upside down. Now what
has happened is that the bomber isn't upside down, the fighter is.
So as you come in underneath and you're coming up on it, you
want to continue shooting as long as you possibly can. So you roll
inverted and you keep shooting and then before you hit him, why
you pull away. Then you go back out and climb up and then do this
kind of thing, because that's the most vulnerable spot on most of
the bombers. I've seen camera gunships that it looks like the
bomber was upside down. Then the other thing was the fact that
the Japanese fighter planes were, what a lot of people here called
maneuverable. That means that they had a very small turning
�radius and they could turn inside the P-40 but the P-40 had a
higher roll rate and higher diving speed and higher level speed, so
when we got into a bad situation, we would roll and dive away
from them, but we never attempted to turn with them, because they
could turn inside of us and get us. This was the mistake that the
military through all of the different theaters down off of Australia
and New Guinea were under the impression that that's the only
way to fight, was to dogfight and a dogfight of course was a
turning circle. They were still doing that late in 1942 and we had
been told this before 1942 started - 3 or 4 months before Pearl
Harbor. It wasn't a matter of formation flying or two ships or three
ships, which a lot of people consider to be tactics, but it was the
fact that not to do something dumb like trying to dogfight with
them.
FRANK BORING:
What did you know when you were in the States about the
Japanese pilots and their planes?
ERIK SHILLING:
When I was in the military in the States, and this was the pitiful
part of the whole thing, I didn't have the vaguest idea about the
Japanese, the Japanese airplanes or what Japan was flying.
Although as I understand it, Chennault had sent many, many
reports to the Pentagon, but they never came down to the people
who would need the information the most, and that was the
everyday, run-of-the-mill pursuit pilot. It just was criminal that this
information wasn't passed down. There are thousands of men who
lost their lives because they didn't have the same information that
we did.
FRANK BORING:
At this time you were going through what Chennault called
"Kindergarten" as I understand it. There was some doubt and
discussion among some of the pilots that the P-40 that you were
flying really was not going to be that effective against the Japanese
and that the British, for example, had an airplane that was far
superior to the P-40. I wonder if you could give us some
�background on that discussion and then how it was eventually
resolved amongst the AVG?
ERIK SHILLING:
There were a group of the Navy guys who, for some reason or
other, thought that the Brewster Buffalo was a better airplane than
the P-40. They were RAF fellows who were based in Rangoon and
so Chennault arranged to try to dispel this fact that the P-40 was
not as good as a Brewster Buffalo, both airplanes were American
of course, and so he arranged a dogfight with a fellow - I can
remember his name even today, Squadron Leader Brandt. He had
been sent from England after the Battle of Britain, sort of a rest and
recreation thing to Rangoon. He also was an ace against the
German 109's and had shot down more than 5 German airplanes at
that time, so he was no neophyte, he'd been in combat before. So I
was chosen by Chennault to dogfight this guy, so we went up over
Toungoo and the British had brought up a bunch of other people.
Their "Wheels" Air Marshall so-and-so and I forgot his name, but
anyhow, we went up and went up to about 10,000 feet and we
broke off and the common way that we used to dogfight was we'd
separate and then come head-on toward one another and when our
wing tips passed, we would pull up into a tight turn, tight as you
could get and we'd start going around and try to get on the other
guy's tail or in a position that, had you had guns or were playing
for keeps, you could shoot him and it took some lead. Now some
of the fellows thought that this guy in the Brewster Buffalo had
made some mistakes and then there were others who thought that
he wasn't much of a Tiger and my personal opinion was, of course,
I was up there closer to the whole damn thing. I thought that the
only mistake he had made was being in the Brewster Buffalo and
not in the P-40. The other thing was I also felt after reading this
article from one of the fellows in his book, that it's damn difficult
to be a Tiger in a wet noodle. So as I say, the only mistake he made
was being in a Buffalo and I easily beat him. So the fact was that
there was no question about pilot ability really when it came right
down to it. I was just in a better airplane.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1938/1991
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English; Chinese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
video; text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v03
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Shilling, Eriksen E.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-09-25
Title
A name given to the resource
Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 3 of 8), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling describes the conditions in Toungoo at the time, in addition to the meaningful experience he had as a part of the AVG and working with General Chennault.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e0abe70ec8d7bf8f098079d74b9ceb23.mp4
b408d5b54d5f158d4268c7a37f3dec20
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9662dcd0daf0c1a74792eb12d6a755f2.pdf
6c1be5abb104d96a20269a91812005c8
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling
Date of Interview: 09-25-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 2]
FRANK BORING:
What did you know about China before you actually went out
there?
ERIK SHILLING:
What I knew about China at that time was only what I'd seen in the
newsreels and it was showing what was commonly called the Rape
of Nanking and the atrocities that had been done on the children
and the women and the bayoneting of them and one picture stands
out in my mind most of all was this little kid, maybe 9 months or a
year old sitting in the middle of this devastated railroad station, just
crying up a storm. It looked like the little kid had been burned or
something like that and my heart went out for him and the other
people that were suffering. So this was another reason why I went
over there, was because how I felt and I wanted to do something
about it.
FRANK BORING:
In San Francisco or even before that, what were you told about
how much you could talk about your mission? I mean the secrecy
involved.
ERIK SHILLING:
When I left New York I wasn't aware I was being even considered
so I didn't really - wasn't given any secrecy, but I assumed that we
shouldn't talk about it. It wasn't until we got to really Los Angeles
and San Francisco and also when I got my passport and my
passport didn't say pilot, it said an accountant. As I say, I even
have problems balancing my checkbook today. So that was the
�worst scenario that you could have. But other guys had such as
farmers and so on, so I knew that we were going over under cover
and that we were told that we should not talk about it of course,
our own safety being involved. But it was no secret to the
Japanese, it was secret to everybody but them I suppose. I don't
know how they found out about it. The Japanese as I say - on the
boat we found out that they knew who we were and why we were
going over. They said that they were not gonna let the boat get
there. Of course the Dutch boat was belligerent at that time. I
found out later on that there were about 5 German U-boats out
there and it was very likely that we could have been sunk by these
German U-boats and quite a number of times as we went over, we
would stop and the two cruisers would catapult a scout plane off
and they would be gone a couple of hours and come back and they
would do the same thing. So occasionally we would lay in the
water just dead still for almost a full day. Then in the evening they
would bring these sea planes back up onto the catapult and stow
them and then we'd be on our way again. What was the trip over
like? What type of things did you do for recreation? What kind of
camaraderie developed?
ERIK SHILLING:
The Navy had played a game called Acey-Deucy which was a lot
of fun and all of the games could be a gambling game, but I wasn't
much into gambling so I didn't play any poker. There was another
game that was quite popular, cribbage, which was a lot of fun and
took a lot of skill, the same thing acey-deucy really takes some
skill. Then there was shuffle board that we played sometimes.
Then when the bar was open, we'd go in the bar and shoot the
breeze and talk about flying and what we might be up against, and
spend the rest of the evening in the bar. Incidentally, we ran out of
whiskey - out of all drinks before we got to Singapore and then
when we got to Singapore, fortunately the Captain of the ship
restocked the bar, so we had enough to last us until we got to
Rangoon.
�FRANK BORING:
What were the fellow passengers like and how did you get along
with the people who were on board?
ERIK SHILLING:
They all were real nice people for the most part. There were a
couple who I sort of wondered about, and some of them quit early
before the war started. I hesitate to say who I didn't particularly
like, but there were only two or three that were that caliber. The
rest were real nice guys.
FRANK BORING:
I guess I'm looking at the passengers that weren't AVG. As I
understand there were missionaries on board. We've heard a
number of stories about different things that happened. I was
wondering what your perspective was?
ERIK SHILLING:
I don't know why, but I didn't get involved or get to talk to them
very much. Some of the other guys did, but I really can't recall
holding a conversation with them for too long a period of time.
FRANK BORING:
There was this battle of the music going on.
ERIK SHILLING:
Well R. T. Smith and Red and - I've forgotten now - but there
about 5 or 6 of them that used to harmonize and of course the more
they drank the more they became unharmonizing, but it was
always fun to listen to them. One of the favorites was of course
"Down by the Old Mill Stream" and stuff like that. Barbershop
type harmony.
FRANK BORING:
On the trip over did you have a chance to get on land and go
explore some of the other areas?
ERIK SHILLING:
No. Our ship, although it anchored overnight at Batavia and
Jakarta, we didn't get ashore until we got to Singapore and were
only about 24 hours there at Singapore, where incidentally, one of
the guys missed the boat and he was - the dock area at Singapore is
a great big long dock and probably even a mile long - and he got to
the dock just as we were throwing the ropes off and we were
�already away from the pier, so this guy was running and hollering
and jumping up and down the whole length of this dock, for this
great big boat to stop for him. But anyhow apparently the harbor
police saw him and the boat that went out and got the harbor police
and brought him back, picked him up at the end of the pier and put
him on board and so he actually made the boat, but he was afraid
that he wasn't. So it was sort of funny because he was running and
yelling and all that.
(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
One of the guys - and for the life of me I can't remember what I
had done to him or what I'd said to him or anything else - but
anyhow he threatened to sabotage my airplane when I got out
there. He was an ex-Navy guy - this same guy later on when I
buzzed Loiwing at the time, he lost his glasses and stepped on
them and he had to be restrained from committing murder, I guess.
But then there were a couple of pilots but they were immature type
of people. I felt that they were sort of like the "Ugly American"
and they were irresponsible and not people who I would
particularly like to be in the air and have to rely on them. So it was
that type of guys that I didn't sort of cotton up to.
FRANK BORING:
Did you think of yourselves as soldiers of fortune or mercenaries?
ERIK SHILLING:
No, never did I think as a soldier of fortune. My own impression of
a soldier of fortune was sort of a run-of-the-mill type who was out
in the Far East or in some of these exotic places and would do
anything for a buck and jump on any opportunity. We, I felt were
there to do a job and the fact that we were getting better pay, I
would never have gone for the pay, although it was a welcome
thing. But no one in his right mind I think would go out there and
let somebody shoot at them for 5 or 6 hundred bucks a month. It
was the experience and the fact that I was helping my own self for
later survival, the main reason why I went.
�FRANK BORING:
Once you arrived in Rangoon, that was the first time you really had
an opportunity to get off the ship and get an opportunity to see the
exotic east. From what you had anticipated seeing, what did you
actually find when you got off the boat in Rangoon?
ERIK SHILLING:
Well just before we got off the boat, we stayed overnight, we
arrived too late in the evening, so we couldn't clear customs and
the boat was anchored in the middle of the Rangoon River. The
next morning a boat came out and there was a guy standing
somewhat sort of in the bow of the boat with a pith helmet and a
bush jacket and a swagger stick and looked like he just stepped off
a movie set. It turned out to be a guy by the name of Boatner
Carney. I liked the guy, but he just - he looked British but he
wasn't and anyhow he brought the customs and immigration people
and we all cleared on the boat and then when we went ashore, we
were all taken to the Silver Grill, where we had dinner and from
there we were herded down to the railway station. We got on the
train there and they had to - because there were 125 of us - they
had to reserve a couple of trains and of course those trains - first
class there was not even as good as any class here in the States,
rather primitive, much older trains than we had.
FRANK BORING:
Give us an idea of what your first impressions were? What was the
weather like? What was the scenery that you saw around you?
ERIK SHILLING:
The most impressive thing - and it may sound silly - but the most
impressive thing was these gobs of red stuff and we found out later
on it was the natives all chewed betel and they would spit this red
stuff out - it almost looked like blood - gobs of blood all over the
street. I had been to Mexico once before and down in Monterey, so
it wasn't the first time I'd been overseas and I didn't - the main
thing that impressed me also was the fact of the coolies and
rickshaw boys and how they would run and run and run and
perspiring. I didn't particularly like to see - but that was their
living. But I didn't like to see a human being having to subjugate
himself like myself and do physical labor, like pulling these darn
�rickshaws and I sort of felt sorry for them. But as I say, I knew that
that was the way they made their living. But that also impressed
me quite a bit, that here these people, how some of them had to
make a living. Then of course as we went up on the train, we then
could see a lot of the rice fields that were being planted. Then not
too much later, why it got so dark that we couldn't see. But how
people had to scratch for a living was the most impressive part of
that whole thing.
FRANK BORING:
Once you arrived - is this the base at Toungoo that you finally got
to - what was your immediate impression of - you'd been
anticipating coming here for a long time, you had the whole time
on the ship to think about it - what did you actually find when you
got to Toungoo?
ERIK SHILLING:
Possibly I was philosophical about the whole thing and I really
wasn't as disappointed as some of the other guys, although I was
impressed or unimpressed - whichever you might say - the things
that impressed me the most was for instance the gravel road, and as
we went by we saw one single hangar there that they had to work
in and the fact that alongside of all of the roads was big deep
ditches filled with gravel and we found out that this was because of
the heavy monsoons it was to carry the heavy rains off, and at
times even these big ditches wouldn't carry it all off. Even the
airfield itself had these same ditches, but much, much bigger all
around to try to drain during the monsoon rains. Then of course as
we rounded the end of the runway and came back toward our
barracks, the barracks were - I enjoyed it - but it left a lot to be
desired. I remember one thing that we used to have a lot of
different kind of insects and it was always a constant fight with the
ants and we would try to tie our cookies or whatever we had and
try to thwart the ants and they were the cleverest darn things. They
would go down this wire and I don't know how the heck they
managed to do it, but there was always a constant battle against
ants getting into your stuff. We'd put the chifforobes on cans of oil
and they would drop down from the ceiling - all sorts of very
�clever - these damned ants. Then of course there were other big
bugs, huge darn things and leeches and centipedes. Some of those
centipedes were huge. One of the guys, he was putting his shirt on
and he'd gotten his left arm in and he was putting this on and a
doggone thing dropped down from the rafters just as he brought his
shirt up and it got on his back and man, he was yelling and
screaming and getting out of his clothes in a hurry. But they were
painful, they had some sort of acid and they would make horrible
looking welts and then they would get into scabs and so on. Then
they had some ants that would excrete some sort of acid and that
would be extremely painful. One of the guys by the name of Fred
Hodges, we used to call him "Fearless Freddie" because he was
definitely afraid of bugs and we had fans in our mess hall and it
had netting to keep the bugs out but they would still get in. I'll
never forget one time he came into the mess hall and this huge bug
was buzzing around like a B-36 practically, low pitched thing, and
it got into the fan and the fan whipped it around and threw it down
on Freddie Hodges' neck and he went out the door without even
opening it, he went right through the screen. So from that moment
on we always called him "Fearless Freddie."
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1938/1991
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
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video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English; Chinese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
video; text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v02
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Shilling, Eriksen E.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-09-25
Title
A name given to the resource
Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 2 of 8), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling discusses his motivation for wanting to help the Chinese people, the undercover trip overseas, and his first impressions upon arriving in Rangoon and Toungoo.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/703dba5be3bfe7245d0fafead1b79784.mp4
f36862e223ba1809698b9d6daf216f60
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f40242c374caf986818469907492d8f7.pdf
ee1ef31e6e477cb21286a9eea6689a91
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interview
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Eriksen “Erik” E. Shilling
Date of Interview: 09-25-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 1]
FRANK BORING:
Erik, we’re going to begin with: Could you give us some
background as to what you were doing before you even heard
about the AVG?
ERIK SHILLING:
I just heard rumors of the Flying Tigers or the AVG at that time
and I happened to have been trained in pursuit - it was called in
those days - pursuit aviation and for some reason or other I had
been transferred to a long-range reconnaissance outfit called the
41st reconnaissance outfit, which was bombers. I also thought that
sooner or later - the war had already started in Europe - and sooner
or later that we would probably get into it. My feeling was - two
things - that I could possibly get back into fighters and the other
thing, by getting into fighters and going to China and fighting
against the Japanese, I thought their equipment and possibly their
training wasn't as good as the Germans and that by going over
there I could get combat experience at less expense - so to speak then when my contract was over in China I could come back to the
States and possibly get back into fighters. Because I felt that flying
bombers were almost like a sitting duck. You can't dodge, it
doesn't depend on your skill at all and you just follow your
instrument there and the bombardier is in charge of the flight. You
can't make any dodges or anything like that. Whereas a fighter
pilot, I think it depends more upon his personal skill as to his
survival.
�FRANK BORING:
Let's go back even further, what actually got you interested in
becoming a pilot to begin with?
ERIK SHILLING:
Well my dad was trained and was a pilot in World War I and my
earliest recollections were about flying and going to the air field
and watching airplanes taking off and landing and this goes back I think the first recollection is about 3 or 4 years old. I can't really
remember ever wanting to do anything other than be a pilot.
FRANK BORING:
Where did you begin your training as a pilot?
ERIK SHILLING:
Randolph and Kelly. That's the only training base there was at that
time. It wasn't until after - I don't know whether the war started or
at least the emergency started - then they changed to many other
bases of training. But at that time it was only the one. We were
only graduating when I went through in 1938 is when I graduated.
My class graduated 80 and we only had 3 classes a year at that
time, so the number of graduates from the school at that time were
rather low. There was no need for any more schools. Now
Randolph was primary and basic and Kelly was advanced.
FRANK BORING:
Once you had graduated, what were your options basically at that
time as a pilot?
ERIK SHILLING:
When we were going to Kelly Field, we had options - we had
attack aviation as it was called, which later became bombers - well
attack aviation, pursuit aviation, observation and bombardment. So
there were only the four options at that time and going from basic
to Kelly, we would apply for which one we wanted and normally I
guess they would probably try to give you what you wanted. I had
put in for pursuit and fortunately got it.
FRANK BORING:
Tell us if you will during that period of time, what were you
doing? You got into pursuit, what were you actually doing? You
get into pursuit, you're now at the field, you're doing pursuit. I'm
trying to get to why you were even tempted to go to China, but I
�don't want you to get into that part yet. I want to kind of get an idea
of what you were doing before then that led you to finally go "I
don't want to stay here, I want to go somewhere else."
ERIK SHILLING:
Pursuit was sort of the hot rod of aviation and as I say it depended
- we felt that the better pilots went into pursuit. Now of course the
bomber pilots and observation may disagree with that, but anyhow
one thing that flying school taught you was that when you came
out of the flying school, you were the best pilot in the whole world.
If you didn't think that you had no business being in combat. But
anyhow, flying a small single engine airplane, you were more on
your own, you had a heck of a lot more fun, you didn't have to
think of other people in the airplane, etc. It just appealed to me
more - fighter pilot than bomber, the slow, lumbering airplane. So
we would also have a lot more interesting things that we could do
like mock dog fighting and acrobatics, which I love, and formation
flying. Of course the others get that but not the type of formation
flying that we would get in fighters because that would entail
somewhat of formation - acrobatics practically.
FRANK BORING:
What were you doing in the latter part of 1940, early part of 1941
before you actually got involved with AVG? What were you
actually doing then?
ERIK SHILLING:
I was in the 41st Reconnaissance Squadron flying B-18's. We were
really supposed to get B-17's but the B-17's were not coming off
the production line rapidly enough so we were flying B-18's. At
that time the war had already started in Europe and we were doing
submarine patrol - one of the things that we would do - submarine
patrol. We would go out over the Atlantic about 150 miles offshore
and another airplane up at Mitchell Field - about 3 or 4 hundred
miles north of us would be doing the same thing. He would go out
and then we would rendezvous over the ocean and it was also a
navigational exercise and problem. Then when we would
rendezvous we would turn around and go back to our respective air
fields. We were on the lookout for submarines and would report
�them. I don't know what the Pentagon or Washington did at that
time, but anyhow that was one of the things that we were doing
fairly early in the war - was submarine patrol.
FRANK BORING:
When did you first hear about the opportunity that was opening up
in China?
ERIK SHILLING:
I just heard rumors. I don't know why no one - I guess because at
that time there weren't any fighters based at Langley Field. I just
heard through rumors that they were trying to locate some pilots to
go over and defend the Chinese cities and the Chinese roadways
for their supply routes and so on. So as I say, I felt that was a good
opportunity to possibly get back into fighters or pursuit at that
time.
FRANK BORING:
What did you do then to find out about these rumors?
ERIK SHILLING:
I located the office, which was in New York, one of the offices. I
flew up to New York and went in town and I was interviewed by a
fellow named Skip Adair, who I met again later on. During the
interview he was quite insistent that he was wanting pilots who had
P-40 time and I did not have any P-40 time, although I tried to
point out to him that I had P-36 time. The P-36 was identical to the
P-40 except it had a radial engine and the P-40 had an Allison
liquid cooled in-line engine. Then I also said that also I had flown
the P-37 which was also the forerunner of the P-40. It looks a little
bit like a P-40, but a little bit longer nose and it was an
experimental thing. I said also I've flown a Bell Pusher which was
called the Aircuda and it had two Allisons. So I said I'm familiar
with the engine and I'm familiar with pretty much the same type of
airplane. So when I left I was not convinced - I didn't think that he
was gonna accept me because he wasn't too promising. So I went
on back down to Langley Field and I sort of forgot about it. The
first thing I knew my C.O. called me in and gave me a telegram.
The telegram was from the Chief of Air Corps. Now I don't know
whether he personally had sent it, but it was under his name,
�asking me why I hadn't resigned my commission. So I was only
too happy to comply and I sent my resignation in right away and
about two days later I was on my way. I went up to Washington
which was my home and visited my folks and then drove on out to
- went by Randolph and Kelly, I wanted to take a look at those
airfields where I'd started from - and then came on out to Los
Angeles.
FRANK BORING:
What did you actually tell your parents?
ERIK SHILLING:
When I had resigned my commission and I was visiting my folks, I
had told them that I was going to China and that they needed
volunteers to help defend the cities. My dad, of course being a
pilot, I suppose sort of would like to have gone along with me, but
my mother - although she never gave any indications of not
wanting me to go - I'm sure that she had some feelings about my
leaving. But they were both very much supportive.
FRANK BORING:
Why did you then go to the two fields where you first started
training?
ERIK SHILLING:
As I say, it's sort of where I started and both - Randolph is a
beautiful field and I've always had a sort of like home in a sense it's my aviation home where I'd started and Kelly - just reminded
me of many of the friends that I had made there and I just wanted
to see it again.
FRANK BORING:
It seems to me it was almost like a return to your aviation roots. A
sort of a soul searching - before you got to China. Would you say
that was true?
ERIK SHILLING:
I guess - I don't really know how to answer that question. But it
was - Randolph and Kelly meant a whole lot to me and it was right
at the end of the depression when I first went in and jobs were hard
to find and I appreciated the opportunity I had. That the Army Air
�Corps at that time had given me to earn a living. I felt pretty close
to the Army Air Corps at that time.
(break)
ERIK SHILLING:
The controversy that was going on really had started a little bit
before this. As a matter of fact the bomber made by Martin was the
first bomber to hit 200 miles an hour and this was in the Pentagon
and Congress, etc. They almost did away with fighter airplanes
because they felt why would we need fighter airplanes when this
particular bomber was faster than the fighter and the fighter
couldn't even catch it. At that time then, the Boeing P-26 came out
and sort of equaled the speeds and then the Seversky, the P-35
made by the same outfit that made the Thunderbolt later on, same
designer, then it was much faster and so the fighters - from that
point on - faster than the bombers. But up to that point the B-10
was faster than any present day fighter at that time.
FRANK BORING:
At the time though were you aware of the controversy between the
two?
ERIK SHILLING:
Yes but as I say it had sort of been resolved when I went to the
flying school and it was no longer a controversy that the bomber
needed protection rather than was capable of - although early in the
war they thought that the B-17 would have been capable of
protecting itself, but that didn't last too long either. They started
putting more and more guns on it, because the original bomber had
no tail gunner and so on. But as the war developed then the
bombers started being shot down in pretty large numbers, they
realized that they needed protection of the fighters and that's when
they developed the longer range P-51. Although the P-51 was
originally bought by the British, but it was one of the better
fighters in the war.
FRANK BORING:
Once you left - said goodbye to your parents and went back to the
fields, where was your next stop? Was this to San Francisco?
�ERIK SHILLING:
No, Los Angeles. We stayed in Los Angeles and Mr. Pawley, who
was head of CAMCO, which was Central Aircraft Manufacturing
Company, they had a manufacturing outfit in China and he
arranged for us to stay at the Jonathan Club. The Jonathan Club
was, and I guess still is, a millionaire's club and he was a member
of this club and quite a group of us stayed at this Jonathan Club
until we went to San Francisco just a couple of days before we
sailed for China.
FRANK BORING:
Could you give us an idea of what it was like? You knew the
reasons why you were going to China, but was this the first time
you actually met a whole other group of what turned out to become
some of your closest friends - a remarkable group of people. What
was your first impression of meeting all these young adventurous
kind of guys in this millionaire's club?
ERIK SHILLING:
It didn't really impress me too much because we all had the same most of us were fighter pilots and we felt that I guess we were
brothers under the skin or whatever. Incidentally, Moose Moss was
- I met at the Jonathan Club there and became very close friends
with Moose and a very special friend of mine.
FRANK BORING:
After you left there it was on to San Francisco. Could you explain
your stay there? How long you were there and just what it was like
there?
ERIK SHILLING:
I can't remember the exact day that we arrived in San Francisco,
but we sailed on the 16th of July on the Jaegersfontein. So we only
stayed in San Francisco I think about 4 days - something like that.
We were in the biggest group that went out, also the first group
that had pilots on board. We sailed on July 16th. Took us about 5
days to get to Honolulu and on the way we used to tune in to
probably the person who turned out to be Tokyo Rose. They had
an English news broadcast which we used to listen to and they
claimed that they knew who we were and what we were going over
there for and that the boat would never get there. I guess
�Washington took that to heart because one day out of Honolulu we
were stopped by two American cruisers. One was the Northampton
and the other was the Salt Lake. We were then escorted all the way
to the Taurus Straits, which is just north - the narrow waterway
between I think Borneo and Australia. There the two cruisers left
us and we heard over the radio that these two cruisers were making
a courtesy call to Brisbane, so that was the first time that I knew or most of us I guess knew the names of these two cruisers and
when we went through the Taurus Straits, we were met by a Dutch
cruiser and the Dutch cruiser escorted us all the way to Singapore.
The Captain of the Jaegersfontein had some perishable groceries or
whatever on board and he wanted to get rid of us and get rid of
these perishables and so on and anyhow we got to Singapore and
through the British and the American Attaché and so forth, the
Dutch Captain was convinced that he should continue on so we
then went from Singapore to Rangoon unescorted.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1938/1991
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English; Chinese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
video; text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88_Shilling_Erik_1991-09-25_v01
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Shilling, Eriksen E.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-09-25
Title
A name given to the resource
Erik Shilling interview (video and transcript, 1 of 8), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview of Erik Shilling by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Shilling served in the American Volunteer Group (AVG) 3rd Squadron "Hell's Angels" as a Flight Leader. In this tape, Shilling describes his background in pursuit aviation before joining the American Volunteer Group and the journey he took to to become a Flying Tiger.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/14b9c85944e31c97ea3e17c1283df31f.mp4
cdfcb3036daffb2030e2454862f1c10f
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/30b0207e9483f32b8103ed85cf9c195e.pdf
32964974e907e1fbd8c721d1412262e6
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interviews
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Konsin C. Shah
Date of Interview: 03-24-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 6]
KONSIN SHAH:
During the war against the Japanese in 1937, the Governor of
Shangtu [?] betrayed the Republic. And then the Army leader
of Su Tran [?] betrayed the public. The Republic. Short of the
Communist making troubles, the Communist started to
occupy north of Shanghai. North of Shanghai. This is the
route of the Nanking government. The Nanking government
started to gain power before 1934 - in Nanking, Shanghai and
Shangtu [?] - a very small triangle that was the rich country.
And then the Chinese Communists were in 1939, 1940, they
would encroach in the northern province of Kim Su [?], a
hundred miles from Shanghai. And so, the difficulty is
tremendous. We lost the industrial quarters. And in
Chungking, we didn't see fit to manufacture a toothpaste.
Such difficulty. And then, the western correspondence, like
Mrs. Strong, and his and her cohorts, they were clearly
Communist. And so they were propagating that China would
not fight. With what? But then, the Air Force took the
equipment, the Navy never got the day going. The Army
came late, because the Army came from Burma, came from
India in the Burma, this was too late. And the Air Force got
some equipment, the Air Force by the help of American Air
Force stopped the Japanese invasion somehow. They, we say
the government the Chinese government, they had the
determination to fight the Chinese Communists up to the end.
�When Chunking was endangered toward the winter of 1944,
Chi Kung [?] to the west of Chunking, was prepared for the
capital. If Chunking was lost, then Chi Kung [?] would be the
capital. We fight to the end.
FRANK BORING:
One last thing, if that's a…
(break)
KONSIN SHAH:
The war was won, because then afterwards the difficulty is
unsurmountable.
FRANK BORING:
But then 1937 wasn't that difficult as well? He had the
Communist on one part, he had the Japanese invading, he had
lack of equipment, lack of supplies, he had, this is what we're
looking to try and give a western audience a better grasp of...
(break)
KONSIN SHAH:
Chiang Kai-shek's dilemma, at the time of Japanese invasion
in July 1937, he had a speech in Nan Tung [?], where there is
no hope of a peaceful solution, then we will talk of sacrifice.
Because there is no equipment, there is no organization, there
is no internal organization, there is a Russian part of an
indirect invasion from the Communist. So where there is no
hope of a peaceful solution, then we will talk about sacrifice.
This is his dilemma.
FRANK BORING:
Is that possible to, you're looking down, could you just start
from the beginning?
KONSIN SHAH:
At the time of the Japanese invasion, in 1937, in July,
Generalissimo, Chiang Kai-shek, made a speech in Cansee
Province [?], in Lu Shang [?], up at the summer resort. His
statement was where there is no hope of a peaceful solution
then we will talk about sacrifice because we lack equipment,
we lack internal organization, plus some of Russia had a
�Communist part to play in the internal problem. And we
couldn't wage a fight, but there is no peaceful solution - let's
talk about sacrifice.
FRANK BORING:
Thank you very much. I appreciate you're going through all of
this.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1938/1991
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English; Chinese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
video; text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88_Shah_Konsin_1991-03-24_v06
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Shah, Konsin C.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-03-24
Title
A name given to the resource
Konsin Shah interview (video and transcript, 6 of 6), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview of Chinese Ambassador Konsin Shah by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ambassador Shah served as a Chinese aviator during World War II and later as President Chiang Kai-shek's pilot and aide de camp. In this tape, Konsin Shah discusses the great dilemma of Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek at the time of Japanese invasion in July 1937 and the lack of hope for a peaceful solution in China.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a4e5a48f56b44510e8fb8e5c2d6674b8.mp4
9b4dc8aedb96b661fbfef5b433fd906f
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3bad5cc992b6bb0ab8197cd73f7317c6.pdf
1ad26d3adc1dd9eefb5190276f626f15
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Special Collections & University Archives
RHC-88 Fei Hu Films
Flying Tigers Interviews
Interviewer: Frank Boring
Interviewee: Konsin C. Shah
Date of Interview: 03-24-1991
Transcriber: Frank Boring
[TAPE 5]
FRANK BORING:
Yunnanyi and Kunming?
KONSIN SHAH:
Yunnanyi. Yes, in 1941. 1941 the one squadron landed in
Yunnanyi and one squadron landed in Kunming.
FRANK BORING:
And one squadron flew into Yunnanyi. So that way we have
that clarified through history.
KONSIN SHAH:
When the AVG first came to Yunnan one squadron flew to
Kunming, and one squadron flew to Yunnanyi, which is 120
miles west of Kunming and later on, whether these two
groups merged or something, then I don't know. In a few
months, I flew to the United States.
FRANK BORING:
Do you recall the first flight of the AVG, the first battle?
KONSIN SHAH:
Yes.
FRANK BORING:
Make sure you state the first battle of the AVG.
KONSIN SHAH:
The first battle of the AVG took place in November just after
their arrival. But the siren sounded and we took the planes off
the… our trainer planes got off to the west, and then we
returned, the bombs never came, the bombs never came. And
�then on the morrow, I heard the big bang, because Yunnanyi
is separate from Kunming, and the news came later. And then
I heard that 6 airplanes were found. There were 6. Japanese
airplanes were found. When Japanese Air Force bombed the
Kunming, a few months before, my mother who was living in
Kunming, got off to the eastern gate and she had only existed
the gate not too far when the bombs fell. And her body was
covered by tons of soil, but then the soil was moved and she
was unhurt. And then in a few months, my mother, she run
from Kunming to the north gate, and then the bombs never
came, so Kunming got the news that a victory was held and
then in Yunnanyi, we got the news tomorrow. And so we
celebrated with the AVG boys.
FRANK BORING:
What was your personal reaction when you heard the news
that Kunming was bombed?
KONSIN SHAH:
I think the first reaction was the American prestige of the
airmen was very high. And secondly, our hopes to win the
war is relatively certain because at that time the Americans
state didn't declare was against Japan, this was in November.
But then after the November 7th, we, I was very studious in
Geography and History. And I knew that the American, the
Japanese force, when entangled with American power, they
could never win. No. In 1940, the Japanese press, they called
their steel industry was producing eight million tons a year,
eight million tons a year, but when the United states
mobilized, this was 30 million a year. By the end of the war it
was a hundred million a year. We students of geography
could predict that Japan went and tangled when American
power could never win.
FRANK BORING:
What do you think the AVG's first victory meant to the
Chinese people?
�KONSIN SHAH:
The AVG's first victory sounded much more important in
Kunming than in [?]. But then after a few months, they were
stationed in [?]. They wiped off a Japanese bombers time
after time. Then the whole country, is the morale, was lifted.
They saw hopes that if we are determined, we could win the
war. They a few days sooner, or a few days later.
FRANK BORING:
Where do you think the AVG lies in terms of Chinese history,
where do they fit into this period of Chinese history?
KONSIN SHAH:
The AVG's story could be revived in Chinese mainland.
Because AVG's story is little known in Taiwan. Taiwan is
then a Japanese colony. But the Korean War kept United
States and China sort of a, incommunicable. If we, if China is
reunited in a democratic way, the AVG's story could be
widely published and those who survived being the age of 55
and on up, in Kunming, in Chengdu, in Chungking, they
could remember. But then inferior to that age group, there is
little known, there is very little known.
FRANK BORING:
From your perspective, you have done many things in your
life, you have accomplished a great deal. You also have been
a student of Chinese history. I'm looking at the whole
spectrum, I guess that I'm looking for is that very brief
moment of one year, in both American and Chinese history, is
very unique, I'm wondering from your very personal
perspective, where do you think AVG fits in the whole
spectrum of Chinese history?
KONSIN SHAH:
China's war of independence largely is to trade space for time.
But, Japanese Air Force could before they take the space,
exercises bombing to our deepest or greatest terror, but then
the AVG came and stopped the bombing. That held the
determination of our people and of our leaders. Our
leadership does not hesitate but our people said that the
bombing of cities, day after day, day after day, we couldn't
�tolerate but then the AVG came in and stopped the bombing.
That was a change of the opinion from the leadership to the
population that this war could be won.
FRANK BORING:
From your own, you didn't know Chennault at all at this time,
is that correct?
KONSIN SHAH:
No, I came into a Chinese-American composite wing and I
knew Chennault. And only briefly. Only briefly, but then
within a year, I was stationed to.
FRANK BORING:
Of Madame Chiang Kai-shek's involvement in the AVG, do
you know it? Could you explain a little bit more about that?
What was her role at the AVG?
KONSIN SHAH:
Madame Chiang Kai-shek's official title was the secretary
general to the Aviation Council. And she took care of the
acquisition of airplanes and training of pilots where the
Generalissimo didn't have time. And then, Madame Chiang
spoke very much more English, then the Generalissimo. And
she had a, not a free hand, but she had mostly counseling of
the aviation matter in Generalissimo day to day work. And
then the AVG boys came in and from the start, she was
informed of the story because President Roosevelt gave a
Lend Lease Plan to China. And then the AVG group and so
from the very start she was very close to General Chennault,
and to the staff. And if by Chinese saying, she was the Foster
Mother of the AVG group.
FRANK BORING:
This particular question, I think is very important to this
project because there have been too many misconceptions and
too many things said about Chiang Kai-shek and the Western
Press and the Western, this is an opportunity to set the records
straight. One thing that I have seen in my research is that he
had a task that is very difficult for anyone in any time. If you
could describe the different problems that he had to deal with
�from the invasion of the Japanese, the land of having to give
up space for time, the equipment, the fact that the Burma
Road was not a super highway, but you didn't have airplanes,
I realize that this is a very large question, but if you could
address the difficulties that Generalissimo and Chiang Kaishek had, in the Sino-Japanese war? And also the internal
problems also, the Communist, there was a time when the
warlords were still somewhat powerful, I realize it is a very
large questions, but if you could address this.
KONSIN SHAH:
When Japan invaded China in 1937, this was after their
invasion of the North Eastern Provinces in 1931. The
Japanese had the 2nd largest Army. The 2nd largest Air
Force. And their Navy, they stealthily constructed so many
dread knots and aircraft carriers, which the United States
didn't know. And then, we, in our revolution of Dr. Sun Yatsen, we started in 1930 -- 1924 and in 1925 with 3,000 rifles
bearing to the north. And in 1927, they conquered Nanking.
And then they went to the north. China is subordinated to
many, many warlords. Each of them backed by the foreign
power that had primary interest in it. In Yunnan, they had the
French equipment. In the Northeastern countries, they had the
Japanese equipment, and the central provinces they had
English, and so in collecting the Chinese Army, we didn't
have an Army to a sort of unified in equipment. So in 1937,
the Chinese Army had 8 divisions trained from German
advisors. From German advisors, and that 8th division was
mostly used in defense of Shanghai. And then the warlords
could be persuaded to fight the Japanese. And then there is
Communist. The Communist are determined to conquer
China. The Communist's combined forces with the
Nationalist government and they didn't do much fighting.
After the Chinese Army was routed by Japanese Army, they
would collect the guns. They would collect the guns. And so,
the Chiang Kai-shek had the internal problem, plus the
Chinese Communists. And so in 1931, when Japan took the
�Northeastern provinces, Chiang Kai-shek had the
determination that to defend the outer invasion must be after
the pacification of the interior.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flying Tigers Interviews and Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, Chinese
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains original 1940s films and interviews conducted in the 1990s, documenting the history of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) "Flying Tigers." The Flying Tigers were organized by the United States to aid China during the Second Sino-Japanese War.
Original filmstrips were recorded by AVG crewmen Joe Gasdick and Chuck Misenheimer, as well as Chinese Air Force Interpreter P.Y. Shu, who was assigned to assist Col. Claire Chennault as he trained Chinese pilots and established the AVG.
Interviews with members of the American Volunteer Group (AVG) “Flying Tigers” were conducted by Frank Boring for the documentary film Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers, which he co-produced with Frank Christopher under the production company Fei Hu Films. The AVG Flying Tigers were a group of American aviators, mechanics, medical and administrative military personnel, led by Col. Claire Chennault to assist the Chinese Air Force in their defense against Japanese air strikes from 1941-1942. The AVG Flying Tigers also flew in defense of the Burma Road, a major Chinese military supply route. The group disbanded and returned to regular U.S. military service after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Boring, Frank
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films Research and Production Files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1938/1991
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Fei Hu Films
Christopher, Frank
Gasdick, Joseph
Misenheimer, Charles V.
P.Y. Shu
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4; application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
English; Chinese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
video; text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1938-1945
World War II
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Moving Image
A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-88_Shah_Konsin_1991-03-24_v05
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Shah, Konsin C.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1991-03-24
Title
A name given to the resource
Konsin Shah interview (video and transcript, 5 of 6), 1991
Description
An account of the resource
Interview of Chinese Ambassador Konsin Shah by filmmaker Frank Boring for the documentary, Fei Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers. Ambassador Shah served as a Chinese aviator during World War II and later as President Chiang Kai-shek's pilot and aide de camp. In this tape, Konsin Shah describes the first battle of the American Volunteer Group, the bombing of Kunming, and his perspective on the AVG's place in Chinese history.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (interviewer)
Christopher, Frank (director)
Fei Hu Films
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
United States--History, Military
China--History, Military
Veterans
China. Kong jun. American Volunteer Group
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/540">Fei Hu Films research and production files (RHC-88)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng