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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cf02f2893726da938ffacceb095b80e2.pdf
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Anti-Semitism existed in Germany and other European countries for many
hundreds of years. The racist doctrines which made their initial appaerance in the 19th century added momentum to the hatrsd of tne Jews.
In many countries, racist anti-semitism was used as an instrument of
political propaganda to gain the support of the masses. However it was
only in e 1930's with the growth of the National Socialist Party and
Hitler's rise to power in Germany that anti-Semitism was adopted as a
policy by a major political party.
Racisme added new and substantial dimensions to t.radi tio ·inal antisemitism. In the past. hatred of jaws had had specific grounds and
vertain lines of development. The hatred nurtured by ancient Christian
.concepts regarded the jews as the people of Israel and the people of
the Messiah, but also as the people who had re3ected its redeemer
Jesus, and thus had condemned itself to ostracism and the eternal
enmity of the Christian world. The jews had to be kept in a state of
servitude, misery and degradation.
Moreover , their eternal wandering among the nations forever at the
mercy of Christians, seemed. to coni"irm the veracity of Christian
teachings.
Later aniti-semitism was reinforced by a greatre stress on economic
social and pol..J.tical factors.
According to Nazi theorists the danger ca.me only from their tainted
J ew1.sh blood •
The German people constituted. in their opinion the highest stratum
of the Nordic -Aryan race. All others especially jews were sub-humans.
Manifest destiny demanded of the Germans that they wage an uncompromising struggle for their heritage, primacy and power.
According to Nazi theory, humanity is not a homogenous unit, and the
human race has no common denominatot.
On the eve of WWII in January 1939 Hitler said:
11
Today I w111 once more be a propnet • If the 1ntinmational financiers
inside and outside Europe should again succeed in pl~ng the nations
into a world war , the result will not be bolsnevisation of ~he
ear'th and thus the victory of jewry , but the annihilations of the
jewish. race tnrougneut Europe • "
Thus jewry ca.me to be regarded as enemy number one, and the murder
or jews became one of the aims for which the war was being waged.
In 1Y2J the NSDAP attempted a political coup in MUnich.
In 1924 the Nazi's received only J %of tne votes cast and had 14
representatives in the Reiohstag.
In 192~ they received only 2.6% of the vore and had 12 Jllll"epresentatives
in the Reichstag •
However 1Y29 saw the commencement of a worldwide economic crises, with
the accompnaying social ferment and political unrest.
Thus in 1930 the elections gave the Nazi 1 s lb.J %of the vote and 107
seats in the Reichstag •
In 1932 howver they lost 34 or their seats in the elections.
They never gained an absolute majority in a free election, not, even
in the election or March 1933, when they were already in power.
It was Field Marshall Paul von Hindenburg who appointea Hitler Chancelor
on the advice of Krupp.
�
Dublin Core
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Title
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Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Termaat, Adriana B. (Schuurman)
Termaat, Peter N.
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains genealogical, personal, and family papers and photographs documenting the lives and interests of Adriana and Peter Termaat. The bulk of the materials are related to family history and genealogical research carried out by the Termaats, including research notes and materials about places in the Netherlands that were significant to the Termaat and Schuurman families, such as the city of Alkmaar.
Other materials in the collection are related to the Termaats' experiences on the eve of and during the Second World War, especially the German occupation of the Netherlands and the Termaats' participation in organized resistance to the Nazis. Also included are materials that document the family's post-war life in the United States, including their public efforts to recognize, commemorate, and honor people and events significant to World War II.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1869 - 2012
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection, RHC-144</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Netherlands
Netherlands--History--German occupation, 1940-1945
World War, 1939-1945
World War, 1939-1945 -- Underground movements -- Netherlands
Dutch
Dutch Americans
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Identifier
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RHC-144
Format
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Text
Image
Type
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application/pdf
image/jpeg
Language
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eng
nl
Text
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Dublin Core
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Identifier
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RHC-144_Termaat_WRI_PNT-Anti-semitism-319
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Termaat, Pieter
Title
A name given to the resource
Notes on anti-semitism
Description
An account of the resource
Notes by Pieter N. Termaat on the nature of anti-semitism in Europe and Germany.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Antisemitism
Germany -- Social conditions
Social conditions
Germany
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/719">Adriana B. and Peter N. Termaat collection (RHC-144)</a>
Publisher
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Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Text
Format
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application/pdf
Language
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eng
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/db8462c35ad32452ff7324f39ea86cb6.mp3
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https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/32031d4de500d0428317ac079225cfb1.pdf
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Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
1
Eric Gollannek: This is Eric Gollannek and I...
Ken Kutzel: …and Ken Kutzel…
EG: …and I’m here today with…
Ray Foster: Ray Foster.
EG: Uh, at the old school house in Douglas, Michigan on July 23rd, uh, 2018. This oral history is being
collected as part of the Stories of Summer Project, which is supported in part by a grant from the
National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Program. Thank you for taking the time to
meet with us today, we’re interested in learning more about your family’s history, in particular
experiences of summer. Can you please state your full name and spell it for us?
RF: Raymond Edward Foster, R A Y M O N D, E D W A R D, F O S T E R
EG: That’s great, alright, so we’ll, we’ll continue our conversation here, you brought in a few things here
about your farm, you want to tell us a little bit about where it is and…
RF: Well this, this was kind of a family farm, um, my mother, mothers’ parents and uh, her grandparents
uh, um, bought eighty acres. They came from Chicago in the late 1800’s and uh, bought eighty acres uh,
near the corner of 66th street and uh, 126th and uh, they [pause] they farmed it and uh, [pause] uh, a
lot of different things. They had blueberries and raspberries and uh, they had 20 head of cattle and uh,
chickens and uh, at different times, different things, uh. Through the years and uh, they raised four
daughters, my mother was the oldest and uh, [pause] she spent, she was the last one to leave the farm.
The other daughters grew up, we got married and then before World War Two, and then my mother got
married after World War Two and uh, so she spent more time on the farm. But as I was growing, when I
grew up and [pause] I, I stayed there with my grandparents. They were in good health and uh, help them
do things [pause] and uh, but mainly just really enjoyed the place. And uh, it was uh, just a just a
beautiful retreat, and uh, a lot of great place to explore and uh, [pause] uh, [long pause]
KK: Is the house still standing?
RF: The house is still standing, it’s had several owners since then, and uh, but uh, [pause] but it’s been,
it’s changed some. Uh, considerably. The house, the outside structure’s pretty much the same but it has
a garage added to it, but uh, and uh…
KK: I noticed it says here that that’s the Hines homestead?
RF: Yes...
KK: Is that what it was called?
RF: Well yes, my, [stutters] I, I, I didn’t mention that but my, my great grandfather's name was Emo
Hines and he came from Chicago and he was not a farmer but he kind of adopted the, the [stutters] hob
hobby, but he had just one son, Otto who was my, my uh grandfather and my great grandfather was a
German immigrant and uh, [pause] he uh, [pause] along with his son uh, they kind of developed the
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
2
land. They planted fruit trees and grape vineyards and, and uh, and raised cattle, and tilled the soil with
a team of horses and uh, um, [pause] it was a [pause] a [pause] a labor of love I think, uh, uh, they uh, it
stayed in the family till the 70’s and uh, so ah, let’s see where can I go from there uh, but I, but I, I spent
a lot of time there in the 60’s, the 50’s and 60’s and uh, [pause] and uh, [pause] well…
KK: How ‘bout, give another...tell us, you, the other day when we spoke with you. You started to tell us a
story about one time when you were on the farm and the motorcycles came in...
RF: Oh!
KK: Would you talk about that please?
RF: No, actually that was at my parents’ house…
KK: Oh!
RF: ...on M89 east of Fennville.
KK: Well let’s talk about that anyway!
[00:04:39]
RF: Okay! Sure! Well it was probably ‘65 ‘66, maybe ‘64 ‘65 ‘66, [pause] I think by ‘67-’68 it kind of
fizzled out. But, on a Memorial Day weekend or Fourth of July weekend, uh, you could hear, hear from a
long ways away this, this sound of motorcycles coming, and there was long strings of them, and various,
[stutters] grou-groups, probably a dozen in a group or so, maybe more, and they came from Detroit,
Flint, and uh, [pause] uh, mainly east, on the other, eastern side of the state, but uh, I guess I could
describe them as a colorful group. They weren't, they weren't necessarily uh, like uh, social club they
were, they more of, of an old [stutters] I I I don’t want to make a comparison to the Hell’s Angels but
they were, they were kind of that style. Uh, their, their jackets on the back had, had little titles like uh
‘Disciples from Hell’ or ‘Hell’s Disciples’ or that sort of thing. That theme was very popular, and uh, but
when I was able to go to Saugatuck, uh, on those weekends it was incredibly busy, they would actually,
unless you could prove you lived there they wouldn’t let you in they would stop at the top of the hill,
they wouldn’t let cars down. And, the motorcycles would be rode up the entire like, from Phil’s all the
way down to the corner and uh, they um, [pause] they would pretty much take over the town. As, as
strange as that might sound, and and the police were, were usually, it wasn’t like today, they were, it
was a small police force and they might rent a few, we referred to ‘them as Rent-a-Cops because they
were just hired for that special occasion. And uh, I’m, I’m not aware of any major, uh, conflicts that uh,
that occurred. There may have been some but I wasn’t really aware of anything, like a, any kind of a
small riot or anything like that. I wasn't aware of anything like that but, but as a teenager it was quite a
novelty to see that. To be exposed to that, and uh, [pause] so, [pause] um, [pause] well, that was pretty
much it, I mean uh, just, just to see it, holiday was over they were gone…
KK: Did that happen every weekend? Or…
RF: No, no, no. Just on, I only saw it on a holiday weekends, and uh, so, that was uh, kind of a, unique
thing.
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
3
EG: What were the reactions of your parents, or grandparents?
RF: Well you know I…
EG: Or neighbors to that?
RF: You know, as far as my, the uh, [pause] the [pause] my parents’ generation, I don’t think they uh, I
don’t think really could comprehend what was going on. I don’t, [stutters] I, I was never aware that they,
uh, it wasn’t something they were happy about, I’m sure, I I know that much but as far as uh, feeling
threatened or anything like that or, uh, [pause] they just, they just looked at it as some kind of a
temporary thing, a phase I think. I don’t think they thought of it as a, um, you know a…
EG: Collapse of civilization…
RF: [Laughs] Yeah! Sure, that, yeah. I’m sure they thought of something like that. Yeah….
KK: Although at that time, was the um, was the summer season, here in Saugatuck, I mean was it um, as
long as it is now, er, you know?
RF: Well, I think, I think I would say it is, um, people started coming up, [pause] um probably before
memorial day and, and um, to their cottages and such and uh, they pretty much stayed until after Labor
Day, shortly after Labor Day. Yeah, there was good numbers of people. It’s hard to make a comparison
between then and now, because things just look at a lot different. They appear a lot different.
KK: Why don’t you talk about that?
RF: Well, I, I guess I could say that, at that time, it was a very affordable place to go, for, for the average
middle class person, and [pause] even though it had a history [pause] from, that I had heard about, you
know ‘Well Saugatuck is really one of, a place you want to go because [stutters] they, they, they have
bars they stay open all night’ and um there’s that kind of atmosphere but, but as a young person, you,
you kind of want to be exposed to a little bit of that.
KK: Well sure!
All: [Laugh]
[00:09:54]
RF: Just to, just to find out for yourself and uh, but, that’s, that’s probably the most striking thing, and
the development, there’s much more development today. You could, you could see the water when you
came in off of, of Blue Start and came into town and you could see the water, uh all the way. There were
no condos or anything like that, and uh, uh, [pause] so, [pause] I hesitate using the word quaint, but if
you, if you were there in the winter you might call it that, but the summer there was a lot of people so it
wasn't really, it was more, it was a tourist town, it was strictly a tourist town. But uh, [pause] uh, the
Coral Gables was a really popular place at that time, very popular place. People would be lined up
waiting to get in, and uh, and [pause] uh, I do remember some scuffles out front just as a bystander
watching some people. Probably some unruly people getting thrown out, and those things kind of stick
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
4
in your head. But, uh, [pause] uh [pause] it was an evolution I guess, you know it just evolved from, you
know my parents’ generation, they probably would’ve saw something, even more, uh, more quaint I
guess you’d say, more slow paced and um,[pause] uh, but things have, thing have evolved to what they
are today and uh, it’s it is, but uh I suppose it’s relative in a way, but it is more, more expensive for the
average person to just go anywhere and spend some time in a, a restaurant or a bar.
EG: Beyond Coral Gables, were there other places that stood out to you? That you spent time, or…
RF: Well…
EG: Or stayed away from, or?
RF: Well the Butler and Coral Gables were always the biggest two, biggest items, and uh, everything else
was just really small. Like uh, there was a place called the Boathouse, and that was down at the end of
the street, across Wick’s Park, in that area, and uh, and uh, all the other little places were just um,
[pause] were lesser, and then, then I, one thing I remembered too in, in it may have been ‘68 or ‘67, you
guys might know, the Blue Tempo came in…
KK: Yes let’s talk about that
RF: Well, you know, as, as a, as a person growing up at that time, I didn’t even, I didn’t even understand
what uh, or fully understand what uh, [pause] um, what a gay, the whole concept of gay people was…
EG: Sure…
RF: So, uh, but I knew this was a unique place, and I knew it had, but, had I known more, in in hindsight, I
might of, might of tried to go there because I know they had great music, and uh, I’m a great uh,
admirer of that kind of, uh, music, and a great history for music and uh, but uh, [pause] uh because now,
as a 70 year uh, and having lived in the area, or known people in the area for a long time, that whole uh,
uh, [pause] uh, shall I say the [pause] the gay scene, is is a, it doesn't, it doesn't even leave an impression
on me anymore.
KK: It’s become part of the culture.
RF: It’s part of the culture, and uh, so, but, but it was always know as a unique place. It was the location
was unique and uh, everybody knew that this was a gay bar, and uh, and uh, so, I wish I could tell you I’d
been there and experienced it but I, I can’t. A friend of mine was there and I only get bits and pieces
from him, but uh, [pause] uh [pause] but uh.
EG: What were some of the reactions or things that people, other people’s reactions or things that
you’ve heard about?
RF: About…
EG: [Inaudible]
RF: About, concerning that?
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
5
EG: Yeah!
Ray: Ah, [pause] you know, people uh, were not really very activist type people at that time. Most
people, you know, they went about their own business and if something new came along, well they
talked about it, but as far as being a [pause] being a objectionable thing or a something that really
disturbed people. People just kind of...after a while it just blew by.
[00:15:14]
KK: [Inaudible]
RF: Yeah, and uh, so, the reaction, my impression of the reaction wasn’t, wasn’t anything really big.
EG: Just another bar, another club that has good music and we’re probably not going there. That kind
of…
RF: That kind of reaction.
EG: That kind of reaction?
RF: That kind of a thing yeah, that’s fair to say. Yeah.
KK: You know um, a question I have for you, being a Douglas resident myself, uh, what are your
memories of the Douglas side?
RF: Well, I occasionally, I would go there with my uh, grandparents occasionally. There was, there was a
little grocery store down on the end of the street towards the river, uh, where uh, um [pause] well there
was a little novelty store there near Naughtons...
KK: Yeah.
RF: Near Naughtons store there, that at one time there was a grocery store there…
KK: Was that Vansicles?
RF: Vansicles, yes! And they would go there occasionally, and uh, [pause] and we would also pick uh,
they they raised uh, raspberries so we would pick raspberries and we would bring them into town and
right where the park is, where the ballpark is there was a man, a vendor there, [pause] and uh, he would
take all we had and uh, he would sell them to the tourists and uh, gosh, just trying to remember his
name now, he had a son who was blind [pause] um, [long pause] gah!
KK: Well it’s alright, it will come to you when you’re not thinking about it.
RF: Right. But anyway it was a, so we did that, we would hang out there for a while but at that time,
across the street, the uh, there was uh, a Catholic School there too. So we knew the, we knew about
that, and at that time the original Catholic Church wasn’t St. Peter's it was just down the street.
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
6
KK: Right.
RF: And uh, one little side light to that, I have a, uh, my dad [pause] had an uncle and uh, I [pause] and
he was the first baby to be baptized there, and I should’ve brought the name, the baptized name was all
the little organizations in town gave him a name and when he went back many years later he was
embarrassed because they mentioned him, and brought him, and mentioned him and everything but his
baptized name was uh, Peter Paul Benedict, uh, Jacob Ivan, [pause] Clark and uh, and they all gave him a
name so, it was, it was an embarrassing thing for him as an adult. But uh, he did happen to be the first
baby that was baptized there uh, he was a part of a large family that was also in the area. But [pause]
but it was a, it was a, it was a incredibly quiet quaint little town. Just down the street there was a place
called the Delicatessen and a man named Red Delky owned it and he had a baker working for him that
was a refugee from Austria, a World War Two refugee, and an incredibly talented pastry chef and
anybody my age can tell you, that lived in the area that they made the best bread and uh, and uh, uh
[pause] sweet rolls and that sort of thing uh, that you could find anywhere. And uh, and uh, down a little
bit further there was a little drug store so it was a, really a, had everything.
KK: [Inaudible}
RF: Just a little town! And uh, I uh, I would also go on Friday night, quite often on Friday night with my
grandparents, near the corner of uh, Blue Star and uh, Maple Street, uh going to the north. There was a
house on the right hand side, at one time it was a resort, owned by my grandfather's uncle, Fred Hines
and [pause] they would pick up people, you would pick up people that came in on the boats and then
bring them back to the resort and uh, his wife would uh, do the housekeeping and uh, he was just
mainly just took them around town to the beach or wherever they wanted to go and uh, but, they had a
little resort there. So but, in later years when I went there with my grandparents, the uh, the next
generation down lived there, my, would be a cousin to my grandmother, grandparents, er grandfather
and uh, so we would just go there, spend some time there with them, they would uh, talk about old
times and that sort of thing, and uh, but uh, it was just [pause] a nice quiet little visit. But uh, I don't
know, what else can I tell you?
[00:20:46]
KK: Do you remember the, uh, the rock festival at all? Were you involved in that, or?
RF: I did go to the one at uh, near Goshorn Lake…
KK: Okay, that’s Potawatomi Beach, right?
RF: Potawatomi Beach, yes. Uh, yes, I did go to that in ‘68, I believe
KK: I believe that’s what it was….
RF: I think it was in ‘68, and it was hot and dry and sandy roads and people would, uh, it was [inaudible]
it was incredibly crowded and uh, you couldn’t get close to the band stand, it was just uh, again there
was, there was that large influx of uh, motorcycle people and they kind of dominated an area there, but
uh, so you could hear things from a distance unless you, unless you somehow got there real early and
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
7
worked your way in, but it was kind of a phenomenon I guess because the volume of people, yeah I
think I, I think I read where cars were lined up all the way from, from that park all the way to the bridge
at the river…
KK: I have heard that….
RF: It’s hard to imagine…
KK: Yeah
EG: Right
RF: So, and then they decided they’d never do that again, but uh, the history of those types of things
are, is, is great. I mean when it goes back to uh, when they had a pavilion and then it’s the uh, got that
racetrack…
KK: Right…
RF: But uh, I do remember, uh, probably the late 50’s when they had a Jazz Festival, the Saugatuck Jazz
Festival, uh, at the racetrack there and uh, Duke Ellington and a few other celebrities were there and my
grandparents farm was kind of a, like a mile south of there, on 126th and uh, just about half a mile from
the corner of Blue Star and 126th, and with the windows open at night, I remember them introducing
Duke Ellington and them mentioning his name, that always stuck in my, stuck with me forever after that.
I thought, wow what would’ve been so great to be there…
KK: And that sound would carry over because it was all farms…
RF: Yes.
KK: Yeah.
RF: Pretty, quite open at that time.
EG: So you could hear? You could hear music and….
RF: I could, yes, yeah, not really well but some, yeah.
EG: Yeah.
RF: And prior to that it was a stock car track, a little dirt stock car track and there was uh, um, uh, auto
racing there. It was quite, for many years, it went on but uh, I never experienced that, I wish I had but
uh, [pause] um [pause]
KK: Any contact, uh at all, or anything you can share about contact with Oxbow or the people from
there?
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
8
RF: No, I never really knew about Oxbow until later I, I consider myself an art lover but I, I never really
knew about it. I wish that I had known more about it at a younger age but it’s a, it’s a great great thing
to have in the area.
KK: Yeah, it was more a private club…
RF: Way back!
KK: And it's interesting that you bring that up because you're not the first person who said ‘We really
didn't pay attention to it’.
RF: No, I never really knew much about it, till later years, and uh, but uh...
EG: Do you remember much of seeing many artists around? Seeing people painting in town, in Douglas
or Saugatuck, or?
RF: No, I always knew it was an art, artsy community but I didn't spend much time, you know, going
from shop to shop, I uh, really at that point in my life, I wasn't really that, I was more, uh, driving your
car, go to the beach, and uh that sort of thing, uh, and getting together with people, but uh, the art,
[pause] I know it existed but I never, I was never exposed to it.
[00:25:16]
KK: Then, what was the beach like then?
RF: Oh, it was great! Uh, there was, there was of course the Oval Beach, but then, the Douglas, Douglas
had a beach, and then there was several beach on down, uh, there were then. I never remembered big
crowds there like today. I have seen some photographs of big crowds but uh, but uh, it was a they were,
they were fairly well kept up and uh, and uh, it was quite a thing to go the Oval Beach was uh, was really
quite a special thing.
KK: Were you guys aware at all of the nude beach? Or did that come later?
RF: You know, I wasn't aware of that, I heard about it, no I heard about it. I did hear about it as a uh,
probably in the late 60’s I heard about it.
KK: Okay.
RF: But uh, that’s really the end of it there, I, I uh, wasn’t curious about that.
KK: Yeah, yeah. Had, had you ever been out on that Denison property with all those dunes?
RF: Yes! I have!
KK: Yeah that’s kind of, well talk about that a little bit, because that I think has to be seen to be believed.
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
9
RF: Well, its, its south of the mouth of the river. I, I did walk that and to the, to the uh, old light house, in
that area, and that's great. That was great country to explore and to follow it all the way up to the, to
bald head and then back down, it was a great, great experience and very natural area and uh, you could
see the old pilings in, in the pine and that little, where the channel was…
KK: Yeah, the lagoon, yeah.
RF: ...and the lagoon yeah and uh, and then uh, well of course there was the pier you could walk out on
that, but [pause] uh, [pause] it was a, you I considered it a great area, beautiful area but I never got to
the north side there north side of the channel where the Denison’s property was I never really saw that.
Uh…
KK: Well it was hard to get out there, always had to take that dug road…
RF: Yeah, Dugout road, yeah. I, my mother, in later years uh worked for uh Ken Denison and planted, I
think, she and another lady cleaned the boats when it was, when it, when they were in business out
there at the end and….
KK: You're talking Broward Marine…
RF: Broward Marine, yes, and, and they uh, uh, my mother planted a whole row of daffodils along the
bank there and was around long enough to see how nice they looked and uh, and uh, she thought the
Denison’s were great people, generous people and uh, [pause] uh, [pause] uh, [pause] only knew, she
knew the dad some but knew Ken more uh, but uh, never, I, I don’t know if the big house was built at
that time but there was a house there along with the uh, the [pause] marina and the business, but uh,
[pause] um, [pause]. The uh, [pause] well going back to the farm there uh, back then all the roads were
dirt roads pretty much uh, they hadn’t paved a lot of the roads there and uh, so you uh, that was a
[pause] a back in time compared to how it is today.
KK: Yeah, where did you go to school?
RF: I did go to school in Fennville that's where my family actually lived.
KK: So was it the old high school there, or?
RF: I did go in the old, to the old high school for a couple years, before it was uh, not used anymore but
uh, uh…
KK: And what about for a grade school was in Fennville also?
RF: Yep, that was also in Fennville, yeah, uh…
KK: I'm going to ask you a funny question…
RF: ...no, no it’s fine.
KK: Did, did you have Mrs. Northrup for any…
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
RF: Yes! Yes I did! [Laughs]
KK: [Laughs] Oh, that’s, so, she’s a real good close of mine, and um…
RF: Oh my gosh, how old is she?
KK: She’s about 93, er um, yep. She has dinner at my house every Monday, in fact she’ll be over
tonight…
[00:30:03]
RF: Really?
KK: I’ll have to mention you.
RF: She was my third grade teacher.
KK: But its, its, she, I was just telling, ah, somebody today uh, we go out with her quite often and no
matter where we go, she’s had every person…
RF: Oh, no doubt.
KK: She taught at, yeah, she taught in Fennville.
RF: Yes.
KK: Oh that’s kind of wonderful.
RF: She was a sweet lady, I, I can tell you that.
KK: And it was her family that owned, uh Sunny Shore.
RF: Oh, really?
KK: On [inaudible] the river road.
RF: See I thought, I thought they lived more out on the...south.
KK: They lived in Allegan, but it was her husband’s family that went there as kids.
RF: Okay, and she did have a son, that's true. Is that true? Yes?
KK: Ah, yep, yeah uh [inaudible] Jeff!
RF: Okay.
10
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
11
KK: Her son Jeff, he’s still around.
RF: Alright, alright.
KK: Yeah.
RF: Yeah.
KK: It’s a small world!
RF: Oh! It’s a lot smaller than you realize if you, if we really, I mean it, when I look at this, or even a
newer one I, I know so many of the people on these placards or I’m familiar with them.
KK: Well, it’s a small area, really.
RF: Yeah, well, for example uh, uh, this farm here this Ed Work farm…
KK: Mhm
RF: Mrs. Work, Mary Work, she was a teacher in the Saugatuck Douglas area for many years but then
she taught in Fennville. She, she uh, her family, her dads family were, were involved in the uh, basket
factory.
KK: Okay.
RF: The name, you probably have seen it.
KK: Yep!
RF: In concern, in relation to the basket factory, and uh, so and she she donated a ton of really great
photos of uh, the history of the area, I’m sure they’re in the archives.
KK: I’m sure they’re in the, I’m sure they’re in the collection.
EG: [Inaudible]
RF: Yeah they’re great.
KK: Well that's, that great, um, let’s see. Uh, well you brought a couple of other photos here so, why
don't we take a look, why don't you tell us, I see uh…
RF: Well, I have, I have to show you this photo here. This photo, and Mrs. Northrup would remember
this…
KK: I should’ve brought her!
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
12
RF: Well, anyway, this house is no longer there but if you're on the river road there, you go past where
sunny side...
KK: Sunny Shore, yeah.
RF: and you keep going East to, there’s a curve, where 62nd…
KK: Yep!
RF: ...Where...
KK: I know exactly where it is.
RF: This house used to be right on that, on the right hand side of that property. That property went way
back to a family named Purdy…
KK: Okay…
RF: Uh, Erastus Purdy he was a civil war veteran and he, he owned that property and they had a landing
down below, on the river uh, and a man named uh, one of his sons [inaudible] Purdy they had a boat
named after him, and uh he he was kind of a, well I don't know if it was just a tourist, tourist boat or if it
was a working boat, but anyway they had a landing there and uh, were I think way back there was
actually a trading post there, on that location right down below….
KK: Could be, yeah, because that's, you know, Mac’s Landing is down from there…
RF: Yes! Yeah, right it has, there's an association between that and Mac’s Landing…
KK: Okay…
RF: But uh…
KK: Yeah, that's very interesting.
RF: Yeah.
KK: That already looks like it had fallen on hard time there…
RF: Oh yes! Yes.
KK: Is that sand or is that snow in front? Is that a little bit of snow?
RF: It is snow.
EG: It looks like snow, yeah.
KK: Yeah it looks like it because I don't see uh, leaves on the tree there.
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
13
RF: But I’m sure it was a beautiful house at one time.
KK: Yeah!
EG: Yeah, lots of great shingle work in the gables and on the octagonal bay. Queen Anne revival…
RF: The uh, one of the daughters her, think it was her granddaughter of the original owner, her name
was Purdy and she had a friend of uh, she had somebody drive her to Saugatuck or wherever she
wanted to go, and the car was a Pierce-Arrow.
KK: Oh!
RF: Was a beautiful old Pierce-Arrow and uh my mother always remembered that because it, nobody
had a Pierce-Arrow.
KK: You know what, gosh, Joan Northrup told me a story about that car.
RF: I’ll bet.
KK: Yeah, and I, bet you she, she knew who the people were.
RF: Oh she would know that, yes! I know who the, uh, driver was the driver man’s name was uh, Cleo
Art and he lived just down, down 62nd, er 66th street there he had a farm down there and uh, he was
the driver and whenever she wanted to go somewhere, he would take her. But uh…
[00:35:04]
KK: That's great!
RF: Yeah.
KK: Tell us about your family, do you have children, er?
RF: I have two sons, yes!
KK: Okay.
RF: and uh, they don't live in the area, one’s in Rhode Island and ones in Grand Rapids, but uh, and they
they visit, or we visit them but uh, uh, but my family my mother uh, married a man from Fennville and
they started a little uh, my my dad and my uncle in the, actually before World War Two in the late 30’s
they started a little Mom and Pop grocery store meat market right on the main street where the Salt of
the Earth is…
KK: Oh! Okay!
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
14
RF: Yeah that was a, and then there’s a stairway going upstairs and then just to the, to the left of that
was a little clothing store which was operated by by um my dad and my uncles father, and he had that
since the uh early 20’s and uh then it was inherited by the next son and he ran it until the uh, late 60’s
and then my uh my dad and my uncle uh, when they were drafted in World War Two they, let the
people, the uh, there was a, there was a two brothers that uh, they purchased it, purchased it from they
took it back over again and ran it until they got back from the service and they took it back again.
KK: Oh that's interesting.
RF: Yeah, and uh but they they had a little grocery store there and so so myself and my brothers we
worked for them, worked in the store there and that sort of thing and uh…
KK: In Fennville, you know obviously where the downtown is and then you know, as you come west,
there’s, now it’s a parking lot but there’s a big empty area there, that’s you know, did that burn down?
What was there?
RF: No. Uh, well, at one time there was a bank on the uh, on the corner just uh, well it would be the
south, uh, south, uh, southeast corner.
KK: Yeah.
RF: …and then, and then no there was a hardware store quite a large hardware store, farm implements
on that corner and then next to that was a lumberyard…
KK: Oh!
RF: Yeah, going west and then next to that was the Fennville Herald newspaper house and it was real
small little newspaper office with, and they had to set the type by hand, it was quite a thing, and uh, uh
[pause] and then there was the business on the corner, Fennville tire but uh, yeah that was all
businesses in there and there were houses behind there was a row of houses.
KK: So what happened? Did it burn?
RF: No, no...
KK: They just tore it down?
RF: There were no fires, uh yeah, it just [pause] it they, they were very old and I’m not sure how, where
there was a [pause] in bad repair or the city bought it, I really don't know. I know the City now owns
that, a large chunk of that land and uh, the uh Salt of the Earth uses part of it for a parking lot or other
businesses but uh, yeah, there was a…
KK: I’m glad to know that, I always wondered…
RF: ...In the 60’s, in the 60’s it was a uh, it had had, a real upturn in economy, the canning factory was
going great guns, three shifts, and uh, and uh, employment was high and uh a lot of migrant workers
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
15
were there in the summer and on weekends streets were full of people and uh, and then it kind of went
down in the 70’s and 80’s and then that's just starting to come back again, yeah.
KK: That’s very, very interesting. You have over here, that you said that you have a boat picture here?
RF: Yeah this, this photo here [pause] this little sail boat was owned by a man named uh, Leo Tucker,
and he was a fruit farmer uh, down by, on Hutchins lake and, and the name of the boat was the Kit Kat
but it, it has a nice shot of the pavilion…
KK: ...Oh, it looks wonderful!
RF: ...and uh, and the uh, Coral Gables, and uh and uh this photo is my grandmother, uh, Otto Hines’
wife, Edith and it’s on top of Mount Bald Head and I’m going to say it’s not long after the pavilion was
built, she was born in the 1870’s, late 1870’s so, she was a young woman but uh, you can see one of the
large posts there, and uh, but you can see the pavilion and, and the two uh, [pause], parks….
[00:40:11]
KK: ...and I love that you can see the old bridge…
RF: Yes! The old bridge, yes...
KK: The old bridge is still there…
RF: Yeah, and so, and I did get this blown up and I’ve got a beautiful framed picture at home, those are
my grandparents there, and uh, they were farmers their whole lives, and uh, when this, when their farm
was built it was the first farm on that street 126th from 66th to Blue Star and that road was known as
Hines Road.
KK: Oh, really?
RF: Yeah.
KK: Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, so you're lucky to have such nice photos…
RF: ...Yeah I am very lucky, these are, this is uh, uh a later picture with some vineyards in the front and
they moved the windmill to the back of the house, and er the well and uh, but uh, it was still horse and
buggy days, you can see buggy tracks here and uh, uh yeah that's pretty much…
KK: ...Really really wonderful, thank you for bringing those.
RF: Well…
KK: ...Do you have any more questions, that you have Eric, that were on the list that we were supposed
to ask?
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
16
EG: No, we moved through a good list of things. Lots of really great things some things we haven't heard
before…
RF: ...Well thanks…
EG: ...or that compliment things…
KK: Yeah no, it's fun and I’m, I’m going to get you together with Joan Northrup…
RF: Okay! I’d like that.
KK: Yeah.
EG: Anything else you’d like to say?
RF: Well, here's one thing I’d like to add. You know the pavilion was, was such a highlight of the, uh, my
parents and my, my grandfather Otto, he knew one of the uh, one of the uh, managers or something so
he could always get in, and he had four daughters so, I’m assuming they all got in, that would be six
people but at that time in history, and I don't know if you folks have ever heard this before, but and I, I
don’t bring it up to sound like I’m uh, anti-Semite or anything like that but, the seats were, were marked
‘Gentiles’ for Gentiles and for Jews and one time, I don't know if it was a little crowded or what but my
grandfather sat in a place where it said ‘For Jews’ and my mother will never forget this, she says a
woman came by and just sat right on his lap until he got up.
KK: No, there are, there are a lot of stories, it was very anti-Semitic, uh in Saugatuck and uh…
RF: ...Well, yeah, I don’t, I’m not aware of the uh, I know it was, there was a separation there…
KK: Yeah…
RF: But…
KK: They were not allowed, the Jews were not allowed to stay in a lot of the hotels…
RF: Oh, really?
KK: Yeah
RF: Okay
KK: Yeah, there’s some, there's some interesting, uh records of that and um, but uh that’s one story I
have not heard.
RF: Yeah
KK: I guess, I guess a lot would’ve come over on those boats, you know what I mean?
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
17
RF: From Chicago.
KK: From Chicago, yes, so you’d have to accommodate it.
RF: There were a few that uh, a few that were, that lived here. There were a few Jews that stayed here,
that were, almost like natives and uh, of course South Haven had a…
KK: Yes…
RF: ...had a larger population of that and uh, [pause] uh, the, the old Glen Shores Golf Club, I know this
because my Dad was best man with one of the sons of the owner who, who started the business just
before the depression and uh, he had big plans for it and everything and some of the print outs of uh,
advertising and everything he advertised it as a Christian place and he, he had a very subtle way of
saying, the, the Jews weren't necessarily welcome.
KK: It’s hard to imagine…
RF: ...It’s a novelty, it’s uh, it’s uh, it was a different world back then, and it was long before World War
Two.
EG: Do you remember much, and thinking along those same lines, do you remember much uh, African
American, People of Color in Saugatuck Douglas area?
RF: No, I don't. In, in school when I was growing up uh, we had two or three families and that was it and
uh, [pause] uh, [pause] um, [pause] I really don’t, I really don’t no.
EG: Not much, not much reaction…
[00:45:01]
RF: ...Oh no, no, uh, no not at all, uh, there was uh, there was a Jamaican man who worked for one of
the farmers there and I knew him a little bit. He used to come into town every, every uh every Saturday
to buy his groceries and he, his skin was almost purple you know he, he was very dark, and but he was
Jamaican and he uh, a good natured person and uh, hard working person and uh, he about the only uh,
man of color that we would see. The uh, Spanish, er uh, I shouldn't say Spanish I should say the Mexican
population, we always called them Spanish [pause] for some reason but Mexican is what they were, but
Mexican didn't sound right so people said Spanish for some reason...
KK: ...Well probably because that’s what they spoke…
RF: ...I suppose that’s it, and so, they started uh, their numbers have rapidly increased uh, in uh, in
recent years, and there were always Spanish people in school with us. Saugatuck was a little different,
that was a little more unique, it was a little more [pause] all [pause] Anglo, all uh, all white. Even to this
day it’s more that way, but uh…
KK: ...Well that’s really interesting.
�Raymond Foster - Interviewed by Eric Gollannek and Ken Kutzel
July 23 2018
18
EG: One other question that I’ve asked people as we’ve done these recordings. So we’re saving these,
with the idea that these will be around 50 plus years from now, so uh, thinking ahead, imagining
someone listening to this in uh, 2068 uh, are there, is there anything you’d like them to know about your
life or the community here, as it is today?
RF: I can just say that, that I can’t complain about anything, I learned a good work ethic, working for my
grandparents and uh, and my parents taught me a good work ethic and uh, I think that was a big benefit
for me growing into adulthood but on the other side, I got to see, I got to see a great community kind of
evolve into a more modern day, uh, [pause] uh, [pause] place and, and those are great memories, but I
also have the memories that my parents and grandparents uh, told me about how it was back then in
the horse and buggy days and uh, but uh, [pause] I guess I’d just like to say that it was a great place to
grow up, uh, a great place to experience. The summers were uh, the winters were kind of brutal but the
summers were, summers were great, and uh, Lake Michigan, to have Lake Michigan and uh, the sand
dunes and uh, [pause] the river and everything it was a great experience and uh, no regrets.
KK: Good!
RF: I guess that I would regret that I didn't ask more questions uh, to my grandparents, uh, to try to
absorb a little more information but uh, uh, but uh, other than that I have no regrets. It was great, and I
love being able to talk to someone that experienced the same things I did, and uh, relate to the same
things, those are always fun, but uh, this historical society is doing everything it can to preserve these
things and, I, I salute them for that, that's a great thing.
KK: Well thank you very much!
RF: Thank you.
EG: You're more than welcome. Alright, well with that, that will conclude this interview. Thanks again.
RF: Thank you.
[00:49:24]
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1910s-2010s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Various
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Douglas (Mich.)
Michigan, Lake
Allegan County (Mich.)
Beaches
Sand dunes
Outdoor recreation
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Saugatuck-Douglas History Center
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Text
Language
A language of the resource
English
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
DC-07_SD-FosterR-20180723
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Foster, Raymond
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-07-23
Title
A name given to the resource
Raymond Foster (Audio interview and transcript), 2018
Description
An account of the resource
Raymond Foster spent much of his summers at his grandarents' farm outside Saugatuck, Michigan. His memories include watching many groups of motorcycles enter Saugatuck in the mid- to late-1960s. He also recalls that the geography of the land around the farm allowed him to hear Duke Ellington play at a 1950s jazz festifal that was 1/2 mile away.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Gollannek, Eric (Interviewer)
Kutzel, Ken (Interviewer)
Van Orsdol, Mollie (Transcriber)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Allegan County (Mich.)
Farming
Motorcycle gangs
Gay culture
Music festivals
Beaches
Antisemitism
Oral history
Audio recordings
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Relation
A related resource
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio/mp3
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng