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Jane Osman- Interview by Margaret Mason
July 21, 2018
0:02
JO: Push it. Oh. Now it’s, it should be working now
0:03
MM: All right.
0:04
JO: Because it the solid thing
0:05
MM: Ok. So
0:07
JO: So then we should probably start with that right over there
0:08
MM: Yeah. All right. Thank you for coming, Jane
0:10
JO: You are welcome. Very welcome
0:13 MM: You just finished doing an interview yourself, so I appreciate that. Um, so. I
should, your name is Jane
0:18
JO: Jane Osman
0:20
MM: Jane Osman. Thank you. O-S-
0:26
JO: M-A-N
0:27
MM: M-A-N Thank you. All right. And I’m Margaret Mason.
0:30
JO: Mmhm. Margaret
0:31 MM: Thank you. Um, and today is July 21, 2018. And we’re collecting these stories as
part of the Stories of Summer Project, which is supported by a grant by the National Endowment
for the Humanities Common Heritage Program. Thank you for coming. I appreciate it very
much. So, do, let me, tell me where you grew up?
0:52 JO: Well, actually I was born in, uh Grayling. I spent my very early years in Kalkaska,
MI, because my father was superintendent there. Then we moved to Utica. That’s where I began
my schooling. Which was over near Detroit. And we were there until second grade. And then in
second grade we move to Fennville, and my father was the superintendent there. And I graduated
with Fennville High School, and that’s where I came into contact with Saugatuck. And I was
always a cheerleader there. Um, Fennville was much larger than Saugatuck. I would say 5 times
or larger as far as the school, the graduating class. Everything like this. We had football, we had
basketball. We had baseball. Um. We had a tennis court, well, we didn’t have a tennis team or
anything, but we had no girls’ sports. No girls’ PE or anything, and it wasn’t until I went to
college that “Gee. I have to take PE?” I didn’t even know what PE was
�1:56
MM: Right. Wow.
1:57 JO: Physical Education. When we were at Fennville, we were the Fennville Blackhawks,
and we were always the rivals of Saugatuck and the Saugatuck Indians. And I can remember
when, and Cynthia just told me a short time ago that it was in the late 50’s I guess, um, er, er no.
I guess it was the early 50’s that the high school in Saugatuck burned. And I remember my dad
getting a phone call because, oh what was his first name? Mr. Waugh. Dr. Waugh. Um, W-A-UG-H. Was the superintendent here, and he called my dad, and the high school was burning. And I
know that they had to go to different churches and then different buildings to have classes until
they kind of remodeled it in the gym and put classrooms in there. But that was when it burned.
But we were always the biggest rivals. So Fennville played Saugatuck, and Saugatuck only had a
basketball team.
2:52
MM: Oh my gosh.
2:55 JO: They didn’t have football. They didn’t have any of the others. And Cynthia told me
that her graduating class, I think she said they were 10.
3:00
MM: Oh my goodness.
3:01
JO: And
3:01
MM: How big was your graduating class
3:03
JO: Ah. In our graduating class I think we probably had maybe 55
3:07
MM: yeah
3:08
JO: but that’s still pretty small
3:08
MM: Considerably bigger. Yeah but, but much bigger than Saugatuck for sure.
3:10 JO: But much bigger than Saugatuck. But, uh, it was always fun to come over and the
Fennville girls would always, whether it was good or bad, we liked to date the Saugatuck boys
because it was exciting because this was kind of like, um, the bad place over here [laugh]
3:27
MM: Oh that’s funny. Be, be with the bad boys
3:32
JO: Yes. That’s right. We called the basketball team the Nicotine 5
3:35
MM: oh! [laugh]
3:36
JO: Isn’t that terrible?
3:37
MM: No. It’s probably true
�3:28 JO: And Cynthia’s cousin Frank Lamb, Frank Lovejoy, Will Hedgeland, um, Bob
Frankenridge, Ralph Burcoss, um, I think Rex Francis for a while and, well, he was, I think he
had an altercation or something over here and then he went to school in Fennville. But anyway,
we always were rivals. It was always very, very exciting to come to a game. I was always a
cheerleader for Fennville, and, um, I can remember some of the cheerleaders from Saugatuck
too. Um. Kerry Wicks, I think was one, um, oh my word. The names escape me right now. But
anyway, what I did over here was I put myself through Hope College working for Joe and Cathy
Hetacheck.
4:25
MM: What did Joe and Cathy Hetacheck do?
4:27 JO: Well, Joe and Cathy had, when I was first working there, the Frost Mug. And the
Frost Mug was where the old Tara (?) was, and then there, I guess it was Center Street? Is that
the one that goes right through? The Old School House
4:37
MM: Yeah. Uh huh. Uh huh. Center Street. Yeah. And then Terra was right over here
4:41 JO: Over here. Behind it. And that was there. Then you cross Center Street, and there
was this bar, whatever. I never went in it
4:50
MM: Because you were a young innocent young girl
4:51 JO: Oh, yes, and I would never be around to go in that. But I was not the kind who “Oh
gee, if it’s bad I’m going to do it”
4:55
MM: Yeah. Right.
4:59 JO: It was called the Woodshed. And then, um, there was the Frost, there, there was the,
I think they called it the Dairy Queen, or the Tasty Freeze. It was the Tasty Freeze. And then Joe
and Cathy had a square building that was probably maybe, maybe 30X30 or maybe 20X20
5:15
MM: Oh. Small.
5:17 JO: And it, very small, and it had shelves around the outside. And it was called the Frost
Mug. And they called it the Frost Mug because we had the Root Beer Mugs, and we kept them
in, we put them in chest freezers
5:30
MM: Sure
5:31
JO: And they were all frosty
5:31
MM: They were frosty, yeah.
5:35 JO: And, my first year that I worked there, I had just graduated from High School, and so
I worked at the fruit canners in the morning from 7 o clock until 5 o clock I guess. Or maybe it
was 7 to 3. And picked rotten cherries off the belt
�5:50
MM: Oh gosh
5:51 JO: And that was in Fennville. And I don’t know how much I got paid per hour, but that
was just for cherry season. And cherry season lasted only for maybe, oh, middle of June to end
of July. But before that summer was over, so it probably had to have been about the first part of,
or the end of June, I got a job with Joe and Cathy, and
6:10
MM: How did you get that job? How did you find that job?
6:13
JO: Probably somebody told me
6:14
MM: Uh huh.
6:15 JO: That they were hiring. They wanted waitresses. And this was not the kind of waitress
where you put out silverware or anything like this. It was, I was a car hop. And I can remember
that we all wore dresses. You didn’t wear pants. And I would wear, uh, I made, what would you
call them, like pantaloons?
6:34
MM: Yeah sure.
6:35 JO: So that when you bend over, because you had to bend over to get in the freezer,
nobody could see your underwear, you would wear these. But 10 cents, oh we were paid 50 cents
an hour if you worked outside, but it was a dollar an hour that you made if you worked inside
6:52
MM: Oo
6:53
JO: So that was a lot of money
6:54
MM: Yeah. Yeah. Actually that, that really was
6:55 JO: Well it was back, probably about 1959 when I started. I worked there for four years,
until 1963. And the first year I worked there it was this small building called the Frost Mug. And
it was the busiest, I could only work from 5 until 3 in the morning because I had this other job uh
picking rotten cherries off
7:16
MM: the cherries
7:17 JO: So I would come, and I would serve at 5 o clock. And then we would have the
supper hour. Then it would get really, really slow until about 9 or 10. And then we would get a
little bit of a rush before 11. And then we would stand around, and we would tell jokes, and Joe
would tell and they were probably very dirty jokes. Um, the only one I can remember right now
is “Get off the table, Myrtle. This here quarter is, is for beer.”
7:42
MM: [laugh]
�7:43 JO: isn’t that terrible? And we would all stand around and we’d laugh. So it was dumb,
because we had this dull time from about 11 until 1, and then the bars close at 2. And then we
would just have a rush of people coming after the bars closed because they were going to sober
up before they went home. We were open until 3 o clock in the morning. So we just put out lots
and lots of pots of coffee. And we would sell all kinds of coffee. And coffee was 10 cents
8:13
MM: wow. Not root beer though, at that time of day, typically
8:15
JO: And, oh well, they didn’t need the root beer to sober up
8:20
MM: Yeah. Right. I’m sure. I guess not.
8:22 JO: But I just remember that we would, uh, put the tray on the, the car window. They’d
have to roll it up, so that there was this ledge that you could put it on. And coffee was 10 cents,
so they would often throw out their whole pocket full of change, and that’s when you made your
money and your tips
8:38
MM: Right. Sure.
8:40 JO: And I’m sure sometimes I would make as many as, oh $20 a night. And that was
really, really big bucks
8:45
MM: Yeah sure
8:46 JO: I cannot believe that I was able to put myself through Hope College for four years
doing that
8:51
MM: That is really incredible. And you paid your tuition and
8:56
JO: Yup. Yup. And board
8:59
MM: Wow
9:00
JO: and
9:01
MM: Do, working, so you work there 12 months of the year, or just in the summer?
9:02
JO: Nope, because it was only open
9:04
MM: Ok. Yeah
9:04 JO: It was only open in summer. And so he probably opened a little bit before Memorial
Day, and then he would close, you know, I can’t really remember, but I can remember working
after Labor Day, and then coming home and working the weekends, uh, afterwards. Um, but he
would close during the winter time. And Joe and Cathy lived on Pleasant Street. So you’d go up
the hill, and the house is still there. And Joe and winter clothes and summer clothes. Because in
�the summer time he’d work so hard that he would lose all this weight in, and then in winter time,
when I would see him, when I would come back in May, I’d say “Oh my word! It’s like Santa
Clause is here”
9:44
MM: That’s funny. And then he would lose it all again.
9:48
JO: All again in the summer. Yeah
9:49 MM: Summer. Well that’s an impressive story, that you could put yourself through
college. Room and board and books and everything.
9:56
JO: But that was 50 years ago, you’ve got to remember
9:58
MM: I know, but I’m still, that’s still very, very impressive. That’s incredible
10:00 JO: And of course you would get uh loans. And because I was a teacher, then we got,
what were they called? Some kind of a loan. And you only had to pay half of it back
10:08 MM: Yes. Because you were going to teach yeah
10:12 JO: You were going to teach. Yeah. I can’t remember what it was called right now. I
don’t remember. But Joe and Cathy had no children, but they were just really, really a nice, nice
couple
10:20 MM: Did they seem like kind of aunt and uncle like to you or parents or?
10:23 JO: Oh they were, they were parents to us, because uh, when we would have the
Venetian nights. Or not Venetian night. It was called, um, oh, uh, Jazz Festivals. And the Jazz
Festivals I think that’s what was last year at the Pump House event there this year, and I think
it’s kind of a continuation of that. They were out at, they were supposedly out at the race track
out here. South of town. But this is where you would have all these kids coming, college kids, I
can remember it was always in July during they called it Jazz Festival Week. It was kind of like
Venetian Festival Week. And it would be so crowded that we, that, uh, they closed off the whole
town. And I can remember that Joe would have us stay with him at their house. And he had
permission for us. And we’d all just pile in two cars, and then drive to his house and sleep at his
house because we had to be at work here at 11 o clock the next morning.
11:22 MM: Right
11:23 JO: and so we would sleep there. Cathy was the organist at St. Peter’s
11:25 MM: Oh gosh. Yeah.
11:29 JO: Very talented. Just a really, really neat couple
�11:34 MM: What a wonderful memory to have, to have the comradery of the people you
worked with. Is there anybody in particular who you worked with that you can think of
11:42 JO: I remember I worked with Franny Benkin. And there was a large Benkin family in
Saugatuck. I worked with Kay Schretigas (?). And she was older than I, and she was teaching
already when I was in school, so therefore, after school started, Joe would let me go early
because I was still in school
12:02 MM: Yeah
12:03 JO: And Kay was out of school, so she was smart. She didn’t have to do any homework
or think. And that was probably very unfair. And I worked with Kerry Wicks. And I think her
father was Frank Wicks of the Wickwood Inn
12:11 MM: Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah.
12:12 JO: And Jerry Muehlenbeck. Her older sister Joy is still in, in uh Saugatuck. Jerry, um,
lives around here someplace. I think she lives around the Fennville area. And Joy still sells
popcorn and such. She’s a popcorn lady.
12:28 MM: Yes. Right Sure.
12:29 JO: And I, so those are four that I do remember working with. And I can remember on
the menu it was, uh a hamburger was 35 cents. And a cheeseburger was 40 cents. You paid you
paid five more cents for that piece of cheese
12:42 MM: [laugh] for the cheese
12:44 JO: Canadian Bacon was 55 cents. A hot dog was a quarter. I remember for Mother’s
Day; it was always kind of embarrassing because we would always get lots. So we had to open
early in May then for Mother’s Day
12:55 MM: Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
12:57 JO: For Mother’s Day we would order three times as many hot dogs because that’s what
everybody, when they, the father would bring the mother and all the kids in for Mother’s Day
13:05 MM: Oh. And all the kids for a hot, yeah
13:05 JO: So she didn’t have to cook. Hot dog
13:08 MM: She, the kids would get a hotdog.
13:12 JO: Root beer was a dime. Coffee was a dime. Doughnuts were a dime. Um, we had two
dinners. We had a shrimp dinner and a chicken dinner. And they were a dollar and a quarter. And
�it was a shrimp dinner, uh, I think there were 9 pieces of shrimp, salad, and then French fries.
How much were French fries? Maybe, were French fries were, 20 cents? I don’t really remember
13:30 MM: But if you got the dinner the French fries came
13:33 JO: Fries go with it. Yeah. But we also sold fries separately. And you could get whatever
you wanted on your hamburger. And I know sometimes we would grill and then we, then we
would have somebody else standing on the counter, but this after, the first year I worked there it
was called the Frost Mug. And then the next year, he had, I think it was the next year he had built
what he called the Red Wood. It had red sides, redwood sides on it. Much larger. And then he
had this big cement out in front with parking on both sides. And it was that way. And parking in
the back too. It also had tables inside. I think there were about maybe 6 tables inside. It was
much, it was probably four times bigger than it was before. But the prices were still the same.
Joe and Cathy worked there all day long. Every single day we were open, 7 days a week. It was
amazing
14:28 MM: And so and you, when you were able to work inside you got more money.
14:30 JO: Right.
14:35 MM: And, but there were only 6 tables inside? Or something like that?
14:37 JO: When, when you worked inside that meant you, you were the garbarger, and you put
all the stuff on the hamburgers or
14:38 MM: oh. Right. Yeah. Right
14:42 JO: Whatever. Or you washed dishes and you ended up with
14:45 MM: chapped
14:46 JO: Uh, hands that looked like all wrinkles. Or you worked down in the basement, and,
oh now I remember two others who worked with us. Two, Anne Hutchinson and Sharon
Fleming. And Sharon Fleming would work downstairs because she had contacts. Because when
you peel the onions, otherwise we would all be crying
15:00 MM: Everyone’s weeping. Yeah.
15:03 JO: Just because she had contacts she didn’t cry and
15:07 MM: Contacts were new in those days
15:09 JO: Oh they were new. That’s right. And we also had to peel potatoes. So we had great
big, this is probably a terrible thing to say, but this great big pile of potato peelings down in the
basement. And every night we’d have to scoop them and put them in garbage bags. Because if
you didn’t do it, you got maggots.
�15:24 MM: Oh yeah.
15:24 JO: It was terrible. And we would peel all the potatoes you had to be careful because you
didn’t want to take your thumbnail off. And then when you put these slippery potatoes in water
and carry them up in buckets. And we had this potato thing. And you put it in, and you pulled the
thing down and made them all. Then so we made our own potatoes.
15:40 MM: Oh you, the lever pulled them to turn them into French fries’ size
15:42 JO: You pulled on this lever and they went into this container. And then you had all your
French fries. And if you worked inside you could also work the fryers. I never liked to do that
because you always burned your toes because when you pulled the, the baskets out of the hot
grease, then it would drip before you got it over onto the counter to put it into the little
containers. And so the tops of your tennis shoes were always all stained
16:10 MM: Covered. Oh really?
16:12 JO: Burn. Burned up too. It was, it was interesting. Um, the best kind of a, we never sold
this, but we would drink it ourselves because we could have one thing to eat and one thing to
drink and it was free. So because we worked there the seven
16:20 MM: Yeah. Should be. Yes right
16:27 JO: You would take, we sold chocolate milk too. So I don’t know if that was a dime. So
you take a frost mug and you would fill it half full with chocolate milk and put root beer in the
top
16:37 MM: Oo
16:38 JO: And was that ever good. It was great
16:40 MM: oh. Like a root beer float
16:41 JO: float. Yes. Except there was no ice cream
16:42 MM: Except it was milk and wow
16:44 JO: And in the front of it, facing 31, I guess the blue star high way, we had 1, 2, we had
4 big chest freezers full of layers of frost mugs of the, um, of the glasses
16:58 MM: Right to serve the root beer
17:02 JO: To serve it
�17:03 MM: Mm hm, so he, so they changed the name of the place and expanded it in between
one season and another as far as you remember
17:08 JO: They must have just, they must have done it very, very quickly. I don’t I remember
working first when it was the frost mug
17:17 MM: Right
17:18 JO: And then it was called the Red Wood
17:19 MM: Right, but it was bigger and had more inside seating
17:23 JO: That’s right were, um I think it’s called the Tasty Freeze I think is now called Way
Point. Because it’s still, it’s still the same building
17:30 MM: Yeah, sure. I know that. Yeah
17:34 JO: And there’s a building behind it, and that, that was, uh, Red Wood
17:37 MM: I see
17:37 JO: And I think it’s kind of reddish wood, or is it red brick?
17:40 MM: My, yeah. So Way Point is sort of back and it’s the M&M’s on the left
17:48 JO: On the left hand side
17:51 MM: M&M’s or what is now called the Blue Star Cafe is the one right facing, uh, 31.
And then Way Point is kind of behind it, I think
18:01 JO: Ok. Way Point. Ok. See, I, and they have really good ice cream sodas in there now.
But that’s where the Tasty Freeze was because it was in the front, so if you had 31 here, then the
Tasty Freeze was here, Terra was over there, uh, what did I say it was called? The Wood Shed
was over here, uh,
18:14 MM: Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. The Red Barn. The Red Wood
18:22 JO: Joe’s Red Wood was right over here, or the Frost Mug was right over here and the,
um, kind of like um, uh, what would you call it. A [pause] you can rent rooms. Like
18:37 MM: Oh, like a little Bed and Breakfast or motel ish thing. Yeah
18:39 JO: It’s a little motel thing. It’s over farther south on that same side
18:42 MM: And now Douglas elementary school is sort of back there, back
�18:47 JO: But it’s much farther back behind, but it’s much further back on
18:49 MM: Correct
18:51 JO: Center Street. So that was not there then. At all. We just had a parking lot behind.
Hm. That’s interesting. I can’t remember. It must have been just, I think it was only one year that
I worked there that it was the Frost Mug. It was that small square building
19:10 MM: And, and then it grew and the number of people you worked with increased?
19:13 JO: Oh yes. It grew, yeah. But I usually worked the 5-3 shift
19:20 MM: That is a long day! My goodness. If you’re getting up in the morning to do the
cherries
19:23 JO: Oh I, so I only did that one year. Much more profitable to be at the Red Wood
working with Joe and Cathy but go ahead
19:26 MM: Oh, yeah. Sure. Right. So when you graduated from Hope College did you continue
to work there in the summer?
19:38 JO: I think I worked there just one summer before I started teaching. And then after that,
of course, I had to go to school in summer sometimes to keep up my certification.
19:45 MM: Right.
19:47 JO: So I, I think I only worked there from 59 to about 63. I think that’s it
19:52 MM: Yeah
19:53 JO: But it, but those were good experiences. But another thing you had to do was clean,
well, you had to take, well, clean off all the trays and then, but you also had to clean the latrines,
and there was a guys’ and a girls’. And this was in the new building. It was awful and we hated
to do that. But that was one of our jobs
20:10 MM: ooh. Yeah. Right.
20:13 JO: Clean the latrine [groan]
20:15 MM: And washing the dishes. No dishwasher?
20:17 JO: [laugh] No. no really. No
20:20 MM: Hmm. Dishwasher hands
20:22 JO: Well see the only thing we had to wash though
�20:23 MM: The mugs
20:23 JO: Were the glasses. Everything else was paper
20:24 MM: Because it, paper. Ok. Gotcha
20:25 JO: And, uh, I imagine there were plastic forks or something to eat your chicken
20:30 MM: The, go back to the chicken dinner and the shrimp dinner. What, what was
included?
20:34 JO: Oh. It was, a, probably like a, uh, school tray like what you would use to go through
the cafeteria.
20:40 MM: Right.
20:41 JO: And, uh, they were both a dollar and a quarter. And it was probably a, uh, three
pieces of chicken I guess. Like a small thigh, a leg, and uh, I don’t know. But anyway three
pieces of chicken. They were
20:53 MM: Fried?
20:55 JO: yes. Fried. It was all deep fried.
20:58 MM: And who had to fry, you had to?
20:59 JO: No, Kathy was in charge of the fryers, and she did that usually. But sometimes, uh
when she would have to do something else, or she would go play the organ for a funeral or
something then we would have to do that. And we didn’t like to do it. But the, the fryers were all
on the opposite side. So they were on the south side. On the north side was the grille. And
actually Joe and two or three grilles there, and then a big long table. And that’s where we did all
the garbaging took it all. And then we had another big table at this end. At that’s where you
picked up your orders because you had to right everyting down.
21:28 MM: Right.
21:29 JO: And then you had to abbreviate it. And you could have whatever you wanted on
your, on your hamburger or your cheeseburger or Canadian Bacon. But you had to write down if
they wanted no onions or everything, or everything but, and there were all, 1, 2, 3, about 6 fryers
there. With the, with the baskets just like you see if you look in the window at McDonald’s.
21:52 MM: Right. Sure.
�21:53 JO: where they fry the stuff? And but we had a tossed salad. So she must have, I can
remember chopping tomatoes. And she must have purchased lettuce and the chopped that all up.
I know that Cathy often had bandages on her hands
22:07 MM: Oh dear. Chopping. Yeah.
22:08 JO: From her fingers. But she would also wear the plastic gloves
22:12 MM: Yeah.
22:13 JO: That are, but I’m sure we didn’t know at the time when we were. But that was back
then too.
22:18 MM: Yeah. Right. Well. That was back then. You didn’t yeah. And people
22:20 JO: Did you wash your hands? Yeah. So we would
22:22 MM: were probably smoking in the restaurant and everything.
22:24 JO: I’m sure. Yes
22:26 MM: So, I’m sorry, you had, she, the fried chicken that Cathy made
22:30 JO: Mm hm. She did everything over on that side
22:30 MM: Ok. All by, from, from scratch
22:34 JO: Yep
22:34 MM: It wasn’t by, and then French Fries, and a salad. And then the shrimp was fried
22:40 JO: There was, I think there were 9 pieces of shrimp. And they were small shrimp. They
had little tails on them. And they were in, so it was this, I don’t know, about 8 by 11, or
something like. Kind of about the size of a piece of paper. And then divided into three sections.
So you had your fries and salad. And then the larger section held your chicken or your shrimp
23:00 MM: yeah. And you would serve that to people, but you didn’t have to actually prepare it
23:05 JO: No
23:06 MM: But you did have to get the potatoes ready to be fried
23:08 JO: Right
23:10 MM: And take them out of the oil
�23:11 JO: But, see, that was all done, you only did that if you were inside. The inside people
did the potatoes, did the onions, did everything else. And those of us who were outside we just
simply took orders. And would write it down on our little pad. You had to wear an apron. And
we had to handle the money because handling the money was. You know, where did we put the
money?
23:32 MM: Did you have little pockets in
23:34 JO: we must have had a till. Oh we had, I had several aprons with pockets in them, but
we must have had a till where put the, I don’t remember that. We didn’t have a cash register. We
must have had a till that we put the money in someplace. There was
23:47 MM: At the end of the day, or
23:48 JO: Oh. We had to turn it in all the time because we had to taking. I don’t know how
23:52 MM: More money and yeah.
23:55 JO: We did that. I bet somebody else, maybe Jerry would remember. I don’t remember
how we did it. With the money
24:00 MM: And obviously they just trusted you so much to be honest with the money. You
never felt they were questioning you
24:08 JO: No
24:09 MM: And would never have thought of helping yourself to the money.
24:10 JO: No. We just didn’t, you didn’t do those sort of things back then
24:16 MM: No. Because there was a whole system of trust. And I love, love the idea of back to,
well, you stay at our house at this time when we’re going to have a lot of business. And we’ll
look after you and what a wonderful memory. That is great
24:30 JO: It was, and Cathy died, oh I think maybe 3 years ago now. Maybe it was 2 years ago.
And it was really, really sad. Uh, her funeral. Joe had died earlier. And I went to her funeral. It
was at St. Peter’s. And I don’t know which funeral home did it. But they had somebody else’s
picture
24:54 MM: [gasp]
24:54 JO: It was, I said “This is not Cathy!” They said, “No. We know. We mixed this up.”
25:00 MM: Oh my gosh
25:01 JO: It. That was really, really sad, and
�25:04 MM: disturbing
25:04 JO: There were very few people there. There was nobody else that I knew from working
there. But that was from 50 years ago too. But I would have thought that some people who still
were around would have come.
25:15 MM: Because the people you mentioned, who you did work with, many of them are still
here.
25:19 JO: I assume so. I haven’t seen Franny probably in 50 years. I don’t know if Kay
Schretigas (?) is still living or not. Kerry I assume is still around. I don’t know. Jerry
Muehlenbeck I do know is around. I see her every once in a while. I see her older sister Joy more
often. But it was really sad because I couldn’t believe. I said “This is not Cathy.” And they said
“no no.” And afterwards, um, I guess nieces, nephews, because they had no children, um, had
everybody go down to the Mermaid. And they, you could order hamburgers, French Fries, or
whatever you wanted reminisce of the days, and I thought that
25:58 MM: Oh. That’s sweet. Yes
25:58 JO: That was really, really special
26:01 MM: I think that is too. Do you know how long the, this place was in operation?
26:05 JO: Well, when I first started working there, they had been there at least 4 or 5 years I’m
guessing. I’m sure if we would look in the records it would say. And I know it was there, oh
probably into to the 70’s even. I’m guessing
26:20 MM: Yeah. Yeah. Good long
26:22 JO: I don’t, I really don’t know. When we, you move away, and then we were in the
Detroit area, you don’t, don’t pay any attention
26:28 MM: Right. Right so. You then left, uh, Saugatuck. You left this area? What, you, when
you graduated and you were teaching, did you not stay around in the area
26:39 JO: No, I was in the Detroit area then. I spent one year in Grand Haven, and then I was
in the Detroit area until the late 60’s. Til 70’s. So
26:48 MM: Mmhm. And then did you come back here?
26:50 JO: And now we live in Holland. We have lived in Holland since 1960, actually. No. I
told a lie. We came back in 68. Just before our son was born. So. And he was born in August, so
we came in July of 68.
�27:02 MM: Right. But really, Holland, in terms of being part of the Saugatuck Douglas
community, you’re not that far away in terms of, of having your memories, of this wonderful
community of this
27:14 JO: Mmhm. That’s why I like it so much. And that’s why I belong to the Saugatuck, um
Historical Center now it’s called. Rather than Holland’s I belong to that. But this is so much
more organized. Starts on time, um, has, is so much more vibrant, um, I hate to put down my
own city, but this one has much more life. And that’s why I participate here.
27:32 MM: Well, that’s wonderful. We’re very lucky that you do.
27:38 JO: Well, I think I’m lucky because it’s available
27:40 MM: And I, we’re brand new in town. We’ve only lived here
27:42 JO: Oh, I didn’t know that
27:44 MM: Yeah, we just have lived here for a year. So, um, I love hearing these stories and
these memories and trying to picture where things are, and your descriptions were so picture
perfect. You know, I can picture you in your pantaloons and the lower apron with the change
27:58 JO: Ooh you wore a dress over it though
28:00 MM: Oh yeah. Of course. Of course. Yes
28:02 JO: And they looked like then they had ruffles on the bottom. Oh my word. And we
would all wore tennis shoes. I remember somebody asking me “Did you wear, were you roller
skating?” Oh Heavens no. That was cement. But I remember it was Thelma Naughton who had
the, um, the Tasty Freeze. And she had a daughter, Corky. And I think they had a boat, boats or
fishing or something. Maybe you’ve heard of that. I don’t know.
28:27 MM: No, No, I haven’t
28:29 JO: Naughton N-A-U-G-H-T-O-N. Thelma and Corky Naughton. And they had that
Tasty Freeze. It was there for a long time
28:39 MM: Right. So all I can picture now is what locals call M&M’s and really is now called
the Blue Star Cafe, but they still have that window where you can soft or hard ice cream or
something
28:52 JO: Ok. Ok. That must be it.
28:54 MM: Like that. But there was a picture of a cone. You know if you look at the Blue Star
Cafe it looks like it’s just a drive in for ice cream. But it’s really the little restaurant beside it that
has, uh, Greek food
�29:00 JO: Oh, Greek food, even
29:04 MM: Yeah. Hm. I mean, it’s kind of
29:07 JO: I’ll have to go there
29:08 MM: Oh it’s fun. It’s a nice little, again, local, family run place. Um, and then behind
that is the Way Point. Where they have big breakfasts, uh, uh
29:20 JO: That must be the, I, I guess I should drive over there and just look because I’ll bet
that’s the old Red Wood
29:26 MM: I bet. It seems from your description
29:26 JO: A big building. It’s, it’s
29:29 MM: Long. Yeah.
29:30 JO: Longer the way of the road.
29:32 MM: Yes. Exactly.
29:34 JO: And, cause we would, we had swinging doors you’d always boop your way because
you had two trays. So strong we could, I could carry, it sounds like bragging, but I could carry a
tray with 6 root beers in on hand
29:46 MM: oh, a, a mug
29:48 JO: Yes. 6 mugs in one hand, and then burgers and whatever else in the other. So you
went out, and so there were no handles on it. You just booped your way out. And then you had
an out and an in. And you never went out the in or you’d have a
30:01 MM: Right, and Jane, just because the recording won’t show this, you are not a large
woman, so
30:05 JO: [laugh]
30:07 MM: So being able to do that must have been so
30:08 JO: Oh we were strong
30:10 MM: Yeah. Obviously
30:12 JO: But, but your thumb, you just hooked on the, and I remember now too. One thing I
did not like, when the cars came out with automatic and they pushed the button. And so then
�they’d accidentally hit it with their elbow. And everything would fall off. And all these things
would smash. But Joe and Cathy never made us pay for
30:26 MM: Oh no.
30:27 JO: The smashed
30:30 MM: It wasn’t your fault
30:30 JO: Well no, but I mean otherwise it could have been “Oh sorry. You didn’t tell them”
We never liked that because back then it was all the hand cranks
30:40 MM: yeah sure.
30:41 JO: And we’d say “now, don’t touch that.” But every once in a while somebody would
accidentally hit it with an elbow. And then the thing would go down and dinner’s all smashed
30:48 MM: Oh now. Right. And then you’d have to start all over again and clean up the glass
and. I wonder how many mugs they had in there. Your description is chest freezer
30:58 JO: Well. You know how big a chest freezer is?
31:00 MM: Yeah. Sure.
31:03 JO: And we had several layers in there. Oh we must have had, a thousand, or more. I
mean
31:09 MM: I remember those mugs. Those glass, and then the handle on it, and then
31:12 JO: Glass handle. Big glass handle. It was all froze, and then it had the, a bottom on it
that was kind of up on the inside. It was a false
31:20 MM: Yeah. Sure. Indented. Yeah.
31:22 JO: Bottom, but they were, that was a bigger mug then you get. And ten cents, but that’s
what it was
31:28 MM: And what kind of root beer was it? What was the brand? Do you know?
31:32 JO: I have no idea because it came in, he would get a, that’s what you would do. You as
the waitress or the car hop got your own drinks. Everything else would come out and then you
got your drinks. Unless they were really busy, and then they got someone else doing drinks.
Cause drinks were on the side. I don’t know what it was, but I know it came in big things. And
we didn’t have to fill it because Joe, Joe would always do that.
31:54 MM: Right. Right
�31:55 JO: He was strong enough, and he could get it up there. And I know you have to put the
stuff in something else
31:57 MM: You have to put the syrup and the whatever
32:00 JO: And I couldn’t tell you what kind of chocolate milk we had either. I think we had,
we must have had white milk too. Why would he just have had chocolate milk?
32:08 MM: Well because chocolate milk is a big treat and root beer is a big treat and
32:10 JO: Yeah I guess that’s it. But we didn’t have Coke. We didn’t have 7-up or any of that
32:15 MM: Right. No. No. No. No. It’s clearly, and you think of those mugs as root beer
32:20 JO: as a root beer mug
32:21 MM: when you think of them. Yeah
32:22 JO: Just like the root beer barrel that’s over there
32:24 MM: Sure. Yeah, and it, it wasn’t there at the time. It was there at the time?
32:28 JO: It was there. It was still
32:30 MM: It was still open and selling root beer also?
32:32 JO: It must have been
32:33 MM: Seems like
32:37 JO: I remember going there in high school. But see, that was over in Douglas
32:38 MM: yeah
32:39 JO: and that was a much smaller operation. I think they just did hotdogs and root beer.
But I could be wrong too. I don’t know.
32:38 MM: so small you can’t imagine that it would
32:50 JO: and ours was much larger. I can remember that. Oh my word. Sometimes we were
just really, really, really busy there. And all the trays would be piled up and you just couldn’t
keep up.
32:58 MM: Right
�32:59 JO: But that was good and time went fast, so
33:00 MM: yeah. Yeah. You’re right. You weren’t bored. And no time for jokes when it was
really busy
33:03 JO: Well not always. It was usually the dead time from about mid night till quarter after
one and then that was time for. Oh! That’s when Joe’d call “OK. Gather round. It’s time for the
dirty 30.”
33:14 MM: [laugh]
33:15 JO: and I mean it was really stupid, but you
33:18 MM: but you loved it
33:21 JO: to have something to keep you entertained
33:23 MM: Were you tired? Do you remember thinking “Oh my gosh. I’d like to go home” or
33:27 JO: Oh probably. And at that time, um, I was staying north of Holland where my parents
had had, well, it’s still in our family. It was my great-great-great grandfather’s cottage. And we
lived out there. And so it was a good 35 40-minute drive for me to get there
33:45 MM: Yeah.
33:45 JO: And, so I’d get home probably 4:30 in the morning
33:50 MM: Oh my goodness
33:50 JO: See I didn’t start again until 5 o clock in the afternoon. So I would sleep probably
until noon. Then go to the beach
33:55 MM: Yeah. Right. [laugh]
33:58 JO: And just go down our steps to the beach and then I was at work by 10 to 5 or so.
34:00 MM: Right. That’s a love, sounds like an idyllic life.
34:04 JO: It was, it was fun
34:05 MM: being a, being a teenager and early 20’s, um, that you had, and, uh, and I don’t
mean to exaggerate when I call it meaningful, but it is meaningful when you’re serving people
and you know, it’s not like you’re reading to the blind or something. But you are providing a
service and people
�34:22 JO: And we got to know people too. Some of them would come in all the time. We had a
couple that would come in from Saugatuck. And we called them Salt and Norma. And
sometimes Salt and Pepper. They would come in about 10 o clock at night, and we could never
do this now. I mean it’d be illegal. They wanted their hamburgers, and these were big quarter
pound hamburgers. Joe would make them himself. And they wanted them just on the grille, so
they were raw really. Just, and with just onions. And that was it. And so it would be just an order
for Salt, we’d say “S & P order” and they knew what it was
34:54 MM: when they, yeah.
34:57 JO: and they put them on and just
35:00 MM: barely warmed up
35:01 JO: barely warmed them up
35:03 MM: they’re eating raw meat basically yeah
35:03 JO: yeah
35:04 MM: Steak tartare only
35:05 JO: oh that would be!
35:07 MM: you wouldn’t. No. And, well nothing you’re talking about would be allowed now.
You would have all had to be wearing gloves, you couldn’t handle the money and handle the
food
35:10 JO: gloves. That’s right. food
35:16 MM: And they would never let kids do the stuff with the potatoes and the basement, and
work the fryer and all that. Is interesting. And yet you thrived, and people had good food and
they weren’t dropping dead of food poisoning.
35:30 JO: [laugh] not that we knew of anyway
35:33 MM: That you knew of, yeah.
35:35 JO: And Joe and Cathy were just such nice people. And hard workers. Oh
35:40 MM: and that sounds like it, it was their, uh, imprimatur (?), their, their symbol of, you
know getting you all in and getting this place for regulars and. Did you have some regulars from
the bar at when people came in at?
35:54 JO: Oh sure, and you just knew you’re just like, oh 3 coffee and, oh gee, I hope you get
home on time
�35:54 MM: At when people came in after drinking and you just knew like, oh. Yeah. Right
36:04 JO: And, in fact, I can still remember, and that’s why I’m a tee totaller to this this day.
Because I would have friends come in and upchuck. It was just awful. I thought I don’t need that
in my life
36:10 MM: Right. Why would anybody want to do that?
36:17 JO: And it was, it was an eye opener. But I’m sure we were extremely naive to
everything else that was going on. And, do bars still close at 2 o clock now
36:27 MM: No idea.
36:28 JO: I don’t know either
36:29 MM: I don’t go to bars
36:30 JO: Maybe. I know in England everything is at 10 o clock or 11 the pubs close
36:32 MM: They call hours yeah. That’s right
36:34 JO: But I don’t know now. But that’s when we would get this influx
36:38 MM: Right. It might be earlier than that, but of course, you know. When you think about
it the restaurants here in Douglas and Saugatuck mostly close, you know 11 at the most
36:48 JO: at the most
36:50 MM: they’re closed. So they’re not, and I don’t really know of an actual just place that’s
just a bar. The places I know in the limited time we’ve lived here are all restaurants. And they
have, they typically close at 10 or maybe 11 on weekend, weekend. But they’re certainly not just
drinking establishments. But it was a wilder time too. You talked about the jazz festivals
37:14 JO: that’s right. Sure. And that’s when all those kids were there and all the riots
37:18 MM: yeah. Do you remember the violence, the motorcycles?
37:22 JO: I, I just heard about it. That’s all. Um, because we weren’t involved. We were
outside of town. And I know that, I shouldn’t say I know, I heard that the problems were not out
there with the jazz festival because they were just doing their thing there. But the problems were
in town. And there are a lot of other people who can tell lots more about that. But I’ve heard
stories about how they were come in, and they had their paddy wagons, and they’d take them off
to Allegan or whatever because there’s not a jail here.
37:48 MM: right. Right, right.
�37:50 JO: And I don’t know. I
37:53 MM: But they didn’t find their way up to where, they didn’t come to, to where you were
working and get anything to eat. Because it was off the beaten path where you were
38:02 JO: It was. I assume so, because they were doing their
38:02 MM: from their perspective because
38:07 JO: And by 2 o clock in the morning they were all [laugh]
38:08 MM: Lying down in the dirt somewhere. Yeah. Wow. What wonderful memory. That is
great
38:10 JO: It was fun. It was fun
38:15 MM: Well
38:16 JO: So we enjoyed it. And I did, I’ve given you what I can remember, most as far as my,
my time working there. And I think just right here at is where we should do our
38:28 MM: Any, any advice for any young person listening to this tape?
38:33 JO: Oh. Do your thing
38:35 MM: [laugh]
38:36 JO: Do your thing. It’s, get as much of an experience as you possibly can. Um. Life is
wonderful, and you meet so many people doing things that you never would think you could do
38:47 MM: Right
38:48 JO: And so what if, I learned that I didn’t want to spend the rest of my life being a
waitress
38:54 MM: Right. Or to become an alcoholic. At least with that
38:57 JO: Uh, that’s for sure, for sure
39:00 MM: And with that, that the warmth that was offered to you and your fellow workers by
this couple who were childless, but you were their children, and
39:08 JO: we were their children. That’s right. Joe and Cathy
�39:10 MM: And you felt that you were Joe and Cathy’s children. I mean you felt obviously you
loved your parents and your family, but this was uh,
39:18 JO: Actually spent much more time with them then you did with your own family
39:20 MM: Of course
39:20 JO: And I can remember Cathy’s birthday in the summer time. And so we pulled our
money and there was a beautiful dress that she liked that was next door because, oh there was
kind of a little shop in amongst these hotel rooms. And she’d seen this dress, so we bought this
dress for her. And I don’t know where or when she could have ever worn it because she was
always working. She always had this apron all full of grease, and she, uh, poor Cathy. But we
bought the dress for here, and she was just absolutely thrilled.
39:50 MM: What a sweet thing that you did that. Because you loved her
39:52 JO: We loved her
39:54 MM: you totally loved her. And Joe
39:55 JO: yes
39:56 MM: And it’s nice, I think, as a, as a psychologist, which I am
39:59 JO: Oh, I didn’t know that.
40:02 MM: I am a retired, um, anyway, to have another set of parents. Because we love our
own parents, but part of the job of growing up, as you know, teaching
40:10 JO: It’s a little tough
40:13 MM: is to, well, you need to have another perspective and you need to have other people
who love you. Who love you for you are, not because you’re their child, but because they love
who you are
40:25 JO: you are
40:26 MM: And that’s just a blessing. You are very, very lucky. It’s a very sweet story.
Anything else I didn’t think to ask you or
40:35 JO: No. I think not. So
40:36 MM: I was, one teeny other thing. The ketchup and stuff. Did you put it on? Did you
have little packets and, I mean were you able to just
�40:42 JO: No, nothing was, we didn’t have packets at all. We had the big containers of ketchup
and mustard and relish
40:45 MM: So if they asked for ketchup you’d put it all on
40:50 JO: Yeah. It was already on the hamburger on the, or on the, um, no. That’s right. We
did have little packets. And we would put a thing of ketchup with the French Fries. That’s right.
A little just like they do that, so they could dip
41:03 MM: oh so they could dip it in
41:04 JO: That’s right, I had forgotten, but that was over on the, with the French Fries
41:07 MM: So when you got the French Fry order you had to fill the little
41:10 JO: They already filled them. It was filled up to the top, and so we put it on their tray.
That’s, oh I’m glad you asked that question because I’d forgotten that
41:18 MM: I’m just picturing the whole process. It just sound
41:20 JO: That’s right
41:22 MM: Those little, uh, cardboard boats that French Fries and those things would be in
those
41:30 JO: Yeah. Same thing that they are served in today. And hamburgers wrapped up just as
it is wrapped up today.
41:35 MM: Yup. Well that is a wonderful memory. And thank you so much
41:37 JO: Oh, thank you very much, Margaret. And I’m glad to meet you
41:37 MM: I’m really. I’m glad to meet you too. And we’ll see you here at the History Center
41:42 JO: Oh yes. Definitely. Come to Tuesday Talks, oops. I guess we
41:44 MM: I do
recording ends 41:46
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1910s-2010s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Various
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Douglas (Mich.)
Michigan, Lake
Allegan County (Mich.)
Beaches
Sand dunes
Outdoor recreation
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Saugatuck-Douglas History Center
Identifier
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Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
Format
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image/jpeg
application/pdf
Type
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Image
Text
Language
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English
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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DC-07_SD-OsmanJ-20180721
Creator
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Osman, Jane
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-07-21
Title
A name given to the resource
Jane Osman (Audio interview and transcript), 2018
Description
An account of the resource
Jane discusses working as a waitress in the Saugatuck Douglas area at the Frosted Mug and, later, the Red Wood. She discusses her relationship with the restaurants' owners and the atmosphere of working as a server at that time
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mason, Margaret (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Douglas (Mich.)
Allegan County (Mich.)
Outdoor recreation
Waitresses
Oral history
Audio recordings
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Documenting the Histories of Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas, Kutsche Office of Local History
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Relation
A related resource
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
Rights
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<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
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Sound
Text
Format
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audio/mp3
application/pdf
Language
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eng