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Grand Valley State University
All American Girls Professional Baseball League
Veterans’ History Project
Interviewee’s Name: Marilyn Jenkins
Interviewed by: Frank Boring
Transcribed by: Joan Raymer August 15, 2008
Interviewer: “ Marilyn, if we could begin with your name and where and when were
you born?” (02:46:25)
I’m Marilyn Jenkins and I was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on September 18, 1934.
(02:46:29)
Interviewer: ”What was your early childhood like?” (02:46:38)
Well, I had one sister who married when I was four years old and so I was like an only
child within a sense. Probably that was good because times were touch then coming out
of the Depression and anyway, I grew up on the near south side of Grand Rapids near the
corner of Cass and Hall Street, which was about a long block and a railroad track from
South Field where the “Chicks” played. I had a good childhood. During the war dad
would pile the neighborhood kids in the car and take them to the lake swimming etc. I
have a lot of fond memories of my childhood. Growing up in the neighborhood, it was a
neighborhood then and you knew everybody. There was a lot of porch activity at night
and it was a good time. (00:02:46:48)
Interviewer: “What did your father do for a living?” (02:47:42)
MY father sold meat for Swift and Company and then again coming out of the
depression, at night he would cut the meat for Jim Nader at Nader’ss grocery store on
Hall Street, which was right around the corner. I kind of fed into that too because I
would go and visit him there and he would bring me candy bars. (02:47:43)
Interviewer: “How about your mother?” (02:48:05)
She was pretty much a housewife except I remember for a short period of time during
WWII she was a “Rosie the Riveter” at a local place here in Grand Rapids. I don’t
remember what it was called at that time, but I remember her in the bib overalls and the
hat. (00:02:48:06)
Interviewer: “Just like the picture.” (02:48:23)
Just like the picture, right. She didn’t like it, but she did it for a while. (02:48:24)
Interviewer: “When was your first exposure to baseball, or sports of any kind?”
(02:48:35)
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�Well, dad was a real sports fan and frequently on Sunday afternoons he would take me to
Valley Field to watch the black leagues play over there and I met some of those fellows
that played there. In fact I met one just the other day. Anyway, I liked baseball—he
taught me to like baseball—he played catch with me and all that. He wanted a boy, but
he got a girl and consequently he was doing something in his short life that he lived after
I was born. (02:48:38)
Interviewer: “This period of time in America was very difficult economically. How
did your family fare?” (02:49:11)
Well, dad worked two jobs and mother went to work there for a period of time. We were
coming out of the Depression and I don’t know that I was anticipated product there. I
don’t know that they wanted another child, but dad would—I think we fared—we always
had enough to eat. Dad would exchange coupons for meat, gas and all that. For gas he
would exchange with neighbors. They would switch back and forth because he had all
the meat, because he was in meat. We got along all right, we weren’t wealthy by any
means, but we made it. (02:49:15)
Interviewer: “You mentioned the black leagues, but were there other baseball
related activities going on around you?” 02:50:00)
I don’t recall any. (02:50:04)
Interviewer: “So the exposure was through your father and seeing these other
players?”(02:50:07)
I was always interested. I remember I use to—all sports—scour the Sunday papers for
pictures. I’m a U of M fan and I would study those and baseball—different seasons and
different sports and I really got into it big time. 02:50:11)
Interviewer: “Did you have a radio?” (02:50:30)
Yes, we had a radio. (02:50:31)
Interviewer: “So, did you hear broadcasts?” (02:50:33)
Broadcasts of sports. I would sit and cross my legs in front of the radio and watch—
listen to them. (02:50:35)
Interviewer: “You said watch, this is before TV.” (02:50:40)
This was watch—we had one of the upright radios. (02:50:45)
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�Interviewer: “I understand from an earlier conversation that tragedy struck your
family when you were still quite young and in your teens. What actually
happened?” (02:50:50)
Dad—when I was thirteen, I think the summer when I was thirteen, he was diagnosed
with Leukemia and that fall he passed away and of course that changed the whole
dynamics of the family. Now there was just mother and I because my sister had married
a Navy man and they were stationed in Long Beach. Anyway, there was mother and I
and it changed significantly. I remembered we struggled. I think she got a small pension
because he had been in WWI, dad had, and he had been injured in WWI, nothing that
affected his walking or his thinking or anything, but I think it was frozen feet and a few
other things. Anyway, it changed our lives and what it did to me was—I was thirteen and
I was going to South High School. I had to cut right through the alley to get to the high
school and I got a job. I don’t know if I was thirteen or fourteen, but I got a job up on
Division at a sundry store, a Quick Mart today, and I worked there, not during the
summer because that was the “Chicks”, but I worked there after school and I think I was
making 50 or 40 cents an hour maybe, but it helped. Mother was—one thing I remember
is that we had a car, we had a 1939 Chevrolet and if my memory is correct, in 1947 when
my dad died, cars were in great demand. It was in the garage, mother didn’t drive, which
was not unusual for women at that time and I wasn’t driving yet, and she had them lined
up at her door to buy that car. I remember she got a thousand dollars out of it and it was
eight years old. Anyway, that helped. A thousand dollars went a long way then.
Anyway, I got a job and I worked right through graduation from high school. (02:01:00)
Interviewer: “What did you—I realize you were very young at that time and young
people don’t always know what they want to do with their lives, but what were you
thinking about? What were you going to do?” (02:53:17)
What was I going to do? Right. Well, one thing I had to do was I had to play baseball.
Anything more secure or substantial than that wasn’t on my money. I knew there was no
money to go to college, there weren’t scholarships and all that business and in what? I
wasn’t qualified. I was a good student in high school, but anyway, I had to play ball.
When the ball league ended in 1954 I went to x-ray school. I became a radiology
technologist at Butterworth Hospital and I worked at that until 1972 I think, but in that
interim period of time, I also went to Community College, I went nights. (02:53:28)
Interviewer: “Lets get back to that a little later. You’re in high school and at what
point did you discover that there was a baseball league? That there was a women’s
league?” (02:54:39)
I have to go way back. In 1945, dad was still alive, and he saw in the Sunday paper that
there was going to be a women’s baseball league coming to Grand Rapids and it was
going to be at South Field, which was just a short distance from my house. Summers
were kind of—I remember playing softball at Jefferson School grounds, but he told me
that I should go over to the field and see if I could get a job, doing what I didn’t know at
eleven years old. (02:54:41)
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�Interviewer: “Let me go back. You said you were playing softball?”
Yes, I played on the school grounds there.
Interviewer: “But there was no team?”
No, just the neighborhood boys, and we set up teams and played there a lot. (02:55:56)
Interviewer: “Were you the only girl?”
I was the only girl.
Interviewer: “So, you already felt that you liked the game?
Yes, I liked the game.
Interviewer: “What position were you playing when you played with the boys?”
Any position. It was just a lot of neighborhood kids and we had a good time.
Interviewer: “So there was no official high school girls baseball team?”
No, in high school at South, our gym activities included square dancing, kickball,
badminton, volleyball, but nothing organized. There may have been archery that was
organized, but nothing that interested me. 2:56
Interviewer: “So now your father sees that there is a team in Grand Rapids and he
suggests to you to go and check this out. Tell us about the day you went there.”
Well, I don’t remember the specific day I went there, but I was pretty timid and I met the
groundskeeper there, I didn’t know anybody, it wasn’t a case of who you know, I didn’t
know anyone, but I just went over there and I met the grounds keeper and his name was
“Chick Batts”. Has anybody else mentioned that name to you? He was probably a fifty
year old man at that time and he had a little helper by the name of Pete something, I don’t
remember, but the interesting thing about “Chick” was that he only had one arm and I
was amazed as I watched him throw a ball by switching the mitt between his underarm of
the stub to his good arm. Anyway, I asked him if there was any work I could do and he
said, “sure”. 2:57 Well, the first job I did was—this is right at the beginning of the
league now, they had cut the grass out because South Field was a football field at that
time. They cut the grass out and the diamond, the dirt was full of stones so I picked
stones out of the diamond. I don’t know how long I did that. Another job I had was
cleaning under the bleachers, which was kind of a fun job because you would find nickels
and dimes out of people’s pockets. Anyway, in that period of time, it was just a short
period of time, and somebody, I don’t recall who it was, asked me if I would be batgirl
so, would I be batgirl, of course I would be batgirl. I was privileged to be in that
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�position. I became batgirl and I was batgirl from the time I was eleven, which was 1945,
until 19—through 1951. 2:58
Interviewer: “Back up just a minute. During the period of time that you were
picking up the stones and all that, did you actually meet the players?”
Absolutely.
Interviewer: “Let’s talk about that.”
Talk about being in awe, I got into the game—I don’t know who was batgirl in the
beginning, but I became batgirl pretty quick. Anyway, I got into the games free, that was
Dad’s purpose in sending me over there so, if I worked I could get into the games free.
These women, I was just in awe and thunderstruck by them. A bunch of wonderful
women, and I remember they were nice to me too, every one of them was. When I saw
that Connie Wisnewski back in 1945, it’s too bad that Connie is still not alive because
she would be a wonderful interview. She was the pitcher at the beginning there, and
Gabby Ziegler and I don’t know, I could go on with lots of names, but I was just
awestruck by them. 2:59
Interviewer: “So, I don’t expect you to remember exactly this moment, but when
the first games were being played, what was your reaction to seeing these women
playing baseball?”
Just astounded. Dad would come over to a few games too. He had to make sure that I
was in an all right sitting there because he was that kind of a dad. Anyway, it was just
amazing, and then to see the people in the stands was another amazing think. Have you
been by South Field here?
Interviewer: “Yes.”
Of course you can’t tell where it was right now. It had a short right field porch, but
anyway—when I think back to the period of time when I was batgirl, the box seats that
were right around where I was sitting, the prominent people in Grand Rapids were there
and they were supporting this at that time. 3:00 The stands would be full and at one time
they built more stand out in the left field because it used to be that you could hit the ball
forever out there. The women playing ball—it was phenomenal. I think it progressed
though, it progressed from a game of softball to a game of baseball, we know that.
Interviewer: “Yes, because they were pitching underhand and side hand and
eventually overhand.”
In 1947 it went sidearm and then overhand, that’s when Beansie came in, she never
would have made it if it hadn’t and she says that. 3:01
Interviewer: “She did say that, yes. Did you have any inkling at this point you’re
the batgirl there, that you could eventually play baseball?”
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�Absolutely, and I had a lot of opportunity too, that’s one thing that was given to me.
Batting practice sometimes, as I got a little older, I’d throw batting practice and
sometimes I would even catch at batting practice, that’s how I ended up being catcher, or
I would roam in the outfield. Oh yeah, I had to—if I hadn’t, not that I was that good, but
if I hadn’t had the opportunity in 1952, that’s when I graduated from high school, to play,
that probably would have been the biggest disappointment of my life. 3:02
Interviewer: “This might be a stupid question, but what does a batgirl do?”
Well, a batgirl goes out and gets the bat after the hitter hits, you see them in the major
leagues today too, they have batboy on their back, and you got out and get the bat or they
bring the umpire balls, or they also, to get into this a little bit more, you shine the shoes,
you carry the bats and balls down to the field from the club house, and you run errands,
and you’re in very close contact with the ball players and man did I admire them.
Interviewer: “From that period, and I realize that we’re going back quite a distance
and you were a very young girl at that time, what were some of the things that you
saw that really amazed you? I understand that you’re in awe and you’re watching
these women, but somebody hit a homerun or something happened.” 3:03
Well, it would hard for me to be specific, but when I saw the home runs, I saw the no
hitters, which in softball was not uncommon, and the competition, that was—I think I
really developed the competitive spirit then, although I think it’s calmed down as I’ve
gotten older. It was phenomenal. I can tell you, but maybe I should wait until later, one
of my biggest thrills playing. So you want to hear it now?”
Interviewer: “Sure, while you’re in the mood.”
At one point, I don’t remember if it was the last year or the year before—1953 or 1954,
we converted to a regulation baseball. Now I loved that because my hands were small
and I could throw it better and everything. I think my first time at bat, if I remember
correctly, with a regulation baseball; I hit one out of the park. Oh man, what a thrill and I
don’t remember if it was South Bend or Kalamazoo, it was one of those two cities. That
was a thrill.
Interviewer: “Going back again to being a batgirl. You were an only child
basically, your father died while you were very young, you’re struggling with your
mom to survive, but you go to this baseball team and you were batgirl. These were
amazing women, did you get a sense of family or a feeling of family?” 3:04
Maybe a little bit, I never thought of it that way, but I was batgirl when dad died and I
remember Dotty Hunter, our chaperone, was living in town then, and I remember she
came to see me then and man, that meant a lot. They sent me cards etc., and yeah, they
were sort of my family. I never thought of it that way. That was my purpose in life at
that time other than looking after my mother at home. 3:05
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�Interviewer: “When did it—did you develop an idea that you wanted to play on the
team or did something just happen, how did that transition from batgirl to trying
out?”
Well, as I said, I had been terribly disappointed, but I was encouraged by many of them
along the way too. I had a pretty good arm, not for pitching because I didn’t have good
control, but it was something that I had to do. It was a huge part of my life after dad died
and maybe even before. You brought up family and that could be it.
Interviewer: “Did you consciously, as you’re watching, you have a job to do of
course, you’ve the bats and all this and we can’t downplay this because it’s an
important part of the game and you have to do these things, but were there
moments when you thought—I’m going to do that?”
I don’t know if I ever thought that, but I knew that I wanted to play. I had some thrills,
Beansie probably told you about her favorite story about her game in Kalamazoo—well I
was catching that game and I wanted to do it, in fact, if I had a choice when I graduated
from high school of playing for the “Chicks” or going to college, I’d have taken the
“Chicks”. Later on I probably would have taken going to college, but I did that anyway.
3:06
Interviewer: “So, what was the actual transition? When did this transition from
batgirl to—did you have to tryout?”
Yes, I had to go through that and there were others trying out too. It was in the spring of
1952 was when I was graduating from high school and there were other people there
trying out. 3:07
Interviewer: “What were the tryouts like?”
Well, they put you through the drills.
Interviewer: “So you were at the same field you were at before?”
South
field—at this point the league had changed significantly and it was at South Field. There
were local girls trying out. too.
Interviewer: “About how many do you think?”
About ten.
Interviewer: “So, now you got the baseball field, the manager, was he the one that
was setting everything up?
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�Yes.
Interviewer: “So what did you have to do to tryout?”
They would hit fly balls, you would bat, you would take infield practice, they would talk
to you and I think one of the things, as the league was losing its popularity there, which it
did significantly we know that, they wanted a local girl, which makes sense to me. They
figured I would bring in some people, but I don’t know if I did or not. Getting back
there a little bit, I remember when it was in June of 1952 we were playing—I remember
my first game well, but anyway, it was a matter of if I was going to play or graduate from
high school. Well, I did the smart thing and I graduated. I went through the ceremony.
It was a quandary. My first game I played was at Bigelow Field, I’m sure it was,
anyway, I remember well the first batter up was Dotty Key of the Rockford Peaches. I
was playing center field then and she hit a line drive right smack at me. 3:08
I think the thing was going up and man, am I glad I caught it. If I hadn’t, it would have
gone to the fence and been history. That’s just a side there. I had to play, that was the
key. I had to have the opportunity and I’m still thankful for it. 3:09
Interviewer: “Your first game and you caught the line drive, wow.”
It came smack at me and if it had gone over my head, it would have gone forever at
Bigelow Field. 3:10
Interviewer: “How do you feel about your first game?”
Nervous, very nervous. Here I was—the gals were all nice to me, they had known me a
long time, but here I was having the first opportunity to do what I wanted to do, full
uniform, full everything and butterflies.
Interviewer: “But, when you caught that ball?”
That helped. That helped a lot. That was the big difference there.
Interviewer: “ I played little league and so I do understand the camaraderie. I have
never played professionally, but I know that when I pitched and I got right into that
zone and the guy swung, it was a feeling of excitement and when you caught that
ball?”
It was a feeling. You hit that—like this rookie catcher for the Tigers the other night, his
first hit is that triple that wins the game. He’ll never forget that, he’ll never forget that.
If he never gets another hit, he’ll never forget. 3:11
Interviewer: “Tell me about the uniform.”
Well, I think the uniform was in the 1940’s a significant part of the drawing of the
crowds, the fans that came to the game. As I remember the 40’s, women didn’t wear
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�shorts, not in public, I don’t know if they wore them, but they didn’t wear shorts in
public. You come out with this—a lot of these gals were really attractive, too-- and you
come out in this short uniform with these good looking legs and that uniform was it.
There whole purpose of developing this league, or beginning this league, that uniform
was a significant part of it, as I see it. 3:12
Interviewer: “I grew up in the 60’s when the mini skirt became very popular and
this is pretty close to being a mini skirt and this is the 40’s and 50’s.”
Right, I mean the legs are bare from up here to the top of your socks and you know it’s
silly to talk about that today, isn’t it? It’s history I know, not that I wear shorts that much
anymore, but what you see the girls in today.
Interviewer: “Then it was significant, because it was something you didn’t see
normally. Rosemary talked about how she was embarrassed to come out.”
I sensed that because I had the experience before, you’re embarrassed.
Interviewer: “What about as a practical, this is the part that always amazed me,
because I’ve seen pictures and film footage of girls, I should say women, sliding into
a base. Now, the men had these long protected pants. What was that like?” 3:13
You know, I think it was something that—it wasn’t pleasant and I had some pretty good
“strawberries”, as we called them, but it was expected of us. That was—I think and I can
say this with a reasonable amount of certainty too, that if you would have put these
women in 1945, in a pant, forget it, it wouldn’t have worked. That’s the way I see it. I
would have been easier on their legs—I think that was—I’ve heard Dotty Hunter talk
about this. That was the magic. Phil Wrigley was really sharp and his advisors there, the
way they put things together. The movie depicted that well too. 3:14
Interviewer: “We’ll talk about that a little later. So, you got through your first
game. What was the reaction of your fellow teammates to the fact that you caught
that ball?”
I don’t know that they reacted because they expected me to do it. That’s what I was out
there for. I wasn’t any hero. They’re pros and they were good ball players. I wish there
was more footage, film footage, of some of those games. 3:14
Interviewer: “But, the cameras were there on occasion, right?”
They were there on occasion, right. I remember seeing the only motion picture, so to
speak, it was the Kalamazoo Klouters, I’m sure you’re aware of that aren’t you?
Interviewer: “We have a whole list of all the teams, yes.”
It’s one that Kalamazoo put out and that’s the one thing we’ve seen in the last few years
here, but there wasn’t a lot. There were stills, but think back to what film was like then.
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�My colored pictures that I took in the early fifties are kind of faded. 3:15
Interviewer: “ So, lets go through some of the games you played. You got through
the first one, and I imagine your confidence level must have gotten better, so what
were the other games like?”
Well, I played that first game in center field, but I actually was a catcher, I had been
made into a catcher, and one of the first games I caught, Marge Silvestri was pitching and
I’m not exaggerating, this was overhand, she had a drop ball that dropped 8-12 inches
and of course I didn’t have any experience calling a game so to speak, so she called the
game from the mound and told me what she was going to throw, and we won. That was a
big thrill too, catching, I came through it pretty good. I don’t have any trouble with my
knees so to speak and the only thing I have is a crooked finger right here that was
dislocated and never put back in, but I loved catching once I got into it. 3:16
Interviewer: “I never could understand it myself. I was a pitcher.”
You’re part of the game. With every pitch you’re part of the game.
Interviewer: “What were some of the games like? You quoted one already.”
I have a problem pulling that out. They were competitive. I don’t think I specify any
particular games. I can’t.
Interviewer: “Well, who were the main rivals?”
Oh, the main rivals, toward the end—Fort Wayne, Fort Wayne always had a good team,
Rockford always had a good team, I think those were the main rivals as I remember.
Interviewer: “The one game that Beans was talking about, you were catching. Let’s
go into detail about that particular game.”
Well, here’s the deal that happened. Mamie Redman was pretty much the regular
catcher and I never—my statistics—I caught a lot of games, but Mamie would go back to
college when the playoffs started, so I was thrown in as the catcher. She was much more
experienced than I was and I tell her to this day—“Mamie, I could hit better and run
faster”. 3:17 So, Mamie went back to college and I was thrown in to be the catcher and
it was a championship game in the playoffs that year that Beansie pitched and it was in
Kalamazoo and it was forty degrees. It was really cold, really cold. Anyway, and I don’t
want to take away from her story, but she struck out that last batter and we won it. That
was probably both of our biggest thrills.
Interviewer. “What about the tension? That was the playoffs, what did you
experience?”
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�A lot of tension. The one thing that I always thought and I still think to this day,
catcher’s gloves were hard to break in and we used the regular catcher’s glove—hard to
break in and they were expensive. The first one I bought, which we had to buy ourselves,
burned up in the fire at Bigelow and I had to buy another one. 3:18 Well, it wasn’t
broken in and Beansie thought the ball popped out of my mitt too much. I had a crease in
it and in fact, that glove is in the museum here in town now and you can still see that
crease. When they had that exhibit I noticed it and I could never work that out. They
weren’t as flexible as today’s. Anyway, that three-two pitch that she threw, there was a
lot of tension. Beansie was kind of nonchalant on the mound, tall, both she and Connie
Wisnewski probably were two of the taller ones in the league. Anyway, she was
nonchalant and she fired it and it stuck in my glove. That ball is in Cooperstown today,
right where it should be. 3:19
Interviewer: “What were the crowds like when you first started?”
They were phenomenal. 10,000 people at South Field, I don’t know where they put them
all, but going back, that’s wartime again. Tickets were cheap, people didn’t have cars,
but it was on the near south side and a lot of people could walk to the games, including
me. Anyway, it really, really was—I think it hit its real popularity in the late 40’s after
the war, but then as cars became more available and television hit the scene, it had an
affect on it. I think historians say that television and availability of the auto, really
changed the success of the league. 3:20
Interviewer: “Just a quick question, how much was your salary working as a
professional?”
I think it was fifty-five dollars a week, which wasn’t bad.
Interviewer: “That was a lot of money back then.”
It was a lot of money back then, yes.
Interviewer: “And that was helping to supplement your family, your mother?”
Right. Keep me going. As you get a little older and in your teens, you need things. You
think you do anyway.
Interviewer: “What did you do with your money?”
Well, I don’t think I had that much, I’m sure. While I was playing, my mother had
remarried, so I had a stepfather, so my money I used for myself. Whatever I needed. I
think I bought a car. A hundred dollar whopper.
Interviewer: “While you were playing as a professional baseball player, did you get
an opportunity for travel?” 3:21
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�Yes we did, we traveled a lot on road trips. One thing I will say—even when I was
batgirl, after my dad died Dotty Hunter was a remarkable woman, she was a Canadian,
I’m sure you know more about her maybe than I do—anyway, she was out chaperone and
I think in the summer of 1948, she took me on a road trip and I think it was to Racine,
Wisconsin. Now I hadn’t, we didn’t travel back then, and the one thing I remember
about it—I was there and somebody famous died. She took care of me—in 1948 I was
fourteen. I had a room in a hotel, with a cardboard suitcase with stickers on it. It was a
wonderful experience. 3:22
Interviewer: “Later on you’re playing professionally, do you travel also?”
We traveled either by bus or the last couple years, I think we were in these cars and on
the side of one of the cars it said, “Here come the Grand Rapids Chicks”.
Interviewer: “So, during that period of time then, it was the first time you had been
outside Grand Rapids?”
Well, very far outside Grand Rapids. When my dad died in 1947, he was buried in
Allendale, but no we didn’t do that—you didn’t have drive-in, you didn’t have
McDonald’s, you didn’t have all that stuff.
Interviewer: “Did you travel out of the country?”
No, I never did.
Interviewer: “I know they had the American and the Cuban leagues.”
I think Beansie did. 3:23
Interviewer: “You had mentioned earlier about the crowds being huge, 10,000
people. Did you notice the drop off?”
Absolutely, I noticed it to the point where, as 1952 was approaching, I was thinking as
the crowds were dropping off, I might never have the opportunity to play because they
might end the league and by 1954 we could really see that coming. One of the things I
remember, was one of my last paychecks was handed out to me in one dollar bills. That
tells you a lot. That even told me a lot as a kid because I was only nineteen when this
was all over. 3:24
Interviewer: “I know that when we interviewed Rosemary, she was taken
completely by surprise of course and she only played at the last.”
Yes, she was only there the last three months or so and that was the last season. No, I
wasn’t taken by surprise at all. There were rumblings about this—they tried different
cities, but each city had its core fan base. There were fan clubs and all that and it didn’t
surprise me, really at all. I could see it coming.
12
�Interviewer: “Well, if you did see it coming, were you thinking about alternatives?”
3:25
Probably, quietly—what I did during the years that I played—in the winter I would work
at Wilson athletic goods—I think that was the only place I worked. It was a job you
could get making golf clubs, putting grips on them—a dirty job, a dirty job, standing in a
spot where the glue would drip and your shoes would be stuck to the floor, but when I
think back on that, it was piecework and it was good money—good money. When it was
over with I had to do something and I had been encouraged—I was a good student in
high school and I had been encouraged to do something. Well, Beansie got into x-ray, I
don’t know how she did, but she encouraged me and I got into it and actually worked at
it—I started in 1955 with my training, that went through 1957 and then I became an RT,
a Registered Technologist, and then after that I started going to night school and then I
while I was going to night school, I worked for Dr. Stonehouse and Dawson, right over
here in the Medical Arts building. I completed Community College and then I went back
to Butterworth Hospital and I got into the teaching program there, of x-ray students.
3:26 I had a degree then etc. I probably shouldn’t say this, but I got very disillusioned
in the 70’s and I might have been an activist too in the 70’s, but I just was dismayed with
patient care. That was after Medicare had come in and the situation kind of changed, but
we won’t go into that. Anyway, then I left that and I went to work for a person injury
attorney in town. Bill Reamon, he has passed away, but he was one of the hot shots in
town and I had a lot of respect for him. I worked for him from 1972 through 1977 and
then that firm split and then I did a lot of work for other attorneys because I had learned
to put together a settlement brochure that was quite popular with them at that time. 3:27
I worked for Bill up through 1988 part time, but also in 1981 I started doing estate sales
in town. I was always interested in antiques so, I was doing estate sales and I am still
doing them today. In fact I’m working on a big one right now. 3:28
Interviewer: “Looking back on the last year, 1954, you said that you heard the
rumbling and you kind of figured that this was starting to happen and you started
to think about what you are going to do next. How did it actually happen to you?
How did you physically know? Was it a letter? How did you know that it was over
with?”
I think it was through the press. I don’t remember a letter or anything. 3:29 Maybe, but
I don’t know. If there was one—in 1978 I donated all my stuff to the public museum
here and it would be in there if there was. I don’t remember that.
Interviewer. “What was your reaction?”
Well, I expected it. You can’t deny what you expect can you? It wasn’t the end of the
world for me. I was nineteen years old and I had to do something with my life anyway—
the funs not going to go on forever, right? Maybe, if you get the right job. Anyway I just
went on. Beansie was terribly disappointed and she expressed that to you, and I’m sure a
13
�lot of the others were too. It was like—it was a fact of life, but she stayed here and she
has done well here in town. 3:29
Interviewer: “Looking back, how do you think the specific experience of baseball
affected you and the person you are today?”
Well, I think probably significant to that was and to how it affected me was that it made
me competitive, but I think in a good way. It also taught me winning and losing and
winning isn’t everything. The way you lose can mean a lot too. I said that before about
winning and losing and competitive—having the opportunity to meet all these wonderful
women, who at that time that the league ended, we had no idea that all this would be
happening. It was over, it was over, but as out association got going and we got—I only
saw the local people here after that, but when the association got going, we have had
more fun at these reunions than you can believe. 3:30 I wish some of you could have
been at the reunion in Fort Wayne in, I want to say, 1984. There was more enthusiasm
there and more good times. There were other ones too, we had a wonderful one in Grand
Rapids in 2001 which Dolly Wisniewski was the chair person of and she said we helped
her, but I don’t know if we did that much, but basically it taught me a lot. It taught me
how to travel, how to pack a suitcase, which I don’t know today, how to eat out, because
we didn’t eat out, I didn’t anyway. My family didn’t and yours probably too. Anyway, it
matured me in a lot of ways. 3:31
Interviewer: “ If you look back on that time when girls, women didn’t really have a
whole lot of options. You could basically become of course a mother, a homemaker,
you could become a nurse, perhaps a teacher, but there weren’t a whole lot of other
things available. After the women’s professional baseball that seemed to change
and there are baseball teams and there are girl’s sports and whatnot. How much do
you think your experience and the experience of the baseball league had on girls
doing things today?” 3:32
Well, I’m led to believe that it had a great effect. My personal experience or contacts
haven’t shown me, other than what I have read or seen, but I guess it’s like Title IX or
whatever, and all this and I have a good friend who taught in college and she is a good
example of this. She had the opportunity to go to college right out of high school and she
could either be a nurse, a teacher or homemaker. Well, she wanted to be an engineer, but
women didn’t do that so, she became a teacher and had a successful career. She has
enlightened me about a lot of the changes because she taught at the local college here.
3:33 I see changes—I’m watching this Olympic team and I’m watching even some
sandlot stuff and there’s a lot of women out there that could be playing baseball and they
have tried it, but it doesn’t catch on and I’ve said, I don’t think it ever will. It might in
another hundred years or something and I want to stress something—there were good ball
players, but there are today too, but the skirts, the uniform, the timing, it’s in a little
pocket there of history where it fit in perfectly and I don’t know where your going to find
another pocket like that. You could make some changes that would be significant, but
this was wartime and wartime then was a lot different than wartime now--much different.
3:34
14
�Interviewer: “Penny Marshall decided to make the movie called “A League of
Their Own”. How were you contacted about that? How did you find out about it?”
I wasn’t personally, but June Peppis in Kalamazoo, she had started the players
association and we were getting together someplace and having a great time once a year
or twice a year. Anyway, she had these two writers come over one year, I don’t
remember their names, but they developed the storyline, never dreaming it would lead
into this, but it did. I don’t know how Penny Marshall got involved myself, but I do
remember in Cooperstown in 1988 when they recognized us, that Penny Marshall was
there. What a brilliant mind. 3:35 She’s brilliant and the way she put together that
movie and all the little twists and innuendos and everything else—it’s phenomenal—even
to “There’s no crying in baseball”, I don’t think anybody had said that before had they to
your knowledge? Anyway, we didn’t even dream at that point yet before the movie, what
it meant to other people as whole, as a unit there.
Interviewer: “I know and I’ve been told this by other baseball player, the storyline
itself was very much fictional account, but overall, did the film express, did it show
the experience?”
I think it showed the experience beautifully, but I think that the experience that it
depicted was more at the beginning of the league. I’m not sure why I say the, I just feel
that way. I think it did an exceptional job. Then to get gals that could play ball and all—
it was wonderful. 3:36 It was wonderful and it’s going to be a movie that’s going to be
around forever I’m sure. It’s going to be a good fill in forever, isn’t it?
Interviewer: “I think so and it kind of becomes like the 1940’s classics—it has the
flavor of that period and it doesn’t have all the stuff you see in so many movies
today. It stands on it’s own. How did the movie affect the association, affect you
and the association?” 3:37
The movie had a fantastic effect on the association, not just monetary, although there was
some there, but it found players that were off in somewhere, although there had been
great searches trying to locate people. It strengthened the association and almost gave the
association a purpose. I sometimes struggle with that—what’s the association s purpose
right now? Well, it’s to perpetuate the league, but I’m one of the youngest. Rosemary, I
said, is younger than I, but I was one of the youngest that was around from the beginning.
It isn’t going to be many more years—the associate members are beginning to take over
control, which has to be, but they’ve been around long enough where they’re picking up
the stories etc. It’s hard to put into a few words what the experience meant to each and
every one of them. To Beansie it meant getting out of Okalahoma, to me, I’ve always
been here. I went to South High School, played on the same South thing and the
connection with Jerry Ford—I’m into Grand Rapids history. 3:38
Interviewer: “That’s why you get along so well with Gordon Olson. He has a love
for this place.”
15
�Yes, he’s done a lot for us too. There are a lot of people who have stepped up and really
made us feel like somebody again as we get into our older years.
Interviewer: “I think one of the things that I found as a documentary film maker,
I’ve done films about the Flying Tigers, film about the Red Arrow and during the
experience itself you know you’re doing something and in your case your playing
baseball and your enjoying it and all that, but you don’t think in terms of what it is
going to mean fifty years from now.” 3:39
Absolutely not ever had a thought that way.
Interviewer: “But at the same time I think it’s important that historians do take the
tie and sit back say, “Guess what, this had an effect and this happened because of
what you did during that period.” A time when you were just a teenager.”
I was just a teenager, but I’ve had a good life since. I haven’t—I participated in the
meeting and the association and the reunions etc., but it hasn’t encompassed my life like
some others.
Interviewer: “But it’s an important part of your life.”
I haven’t forgotten and I never will. I know that dad would have been proud of me had
he lived to see me playing. 3:40
Interviewer: “I think it’s important that he encouraged you to begin with.”
That was and the boys in the neighborhood added to it too. I remember about ten days
before dad died, it was in November, he had me out between the houses in our
neighborhood where I grew up, throwing a football. Interesting—that was almost his last
day of consciousness. He had just come home from the hospital and he was built-up a
little bit.
Interviewer: “But your mom got a chance to see your success.”
She wasn’t interested in baseball, not at all. I think she knew though—one thing she said,
I remember and it was when I graduated from Community College, she said, “You’re the
first person in the family to get a degree.” It was only an Associates Degree, but it was a
degree, it was putting two years together. I think she was, but I don’t think she ever came
over to see a game. I’m not sure about that, maybe she did. 3:41
Interviewer: “Do you have other family?”
No, I have cousins that I don’t know—not really.
Interviewer: “I’m an only child also.”
You miss a lot.
16
�Interviewer: “You do, but on the other hand there’s a comfort level being by
yourself that have families don’t have.”
That is true. You think a little differently.
Interviewer. “I think so and if you actually take time to improve yourself and your
independence, it strengthens you, but I have very close friends.”
I do too, a lot of wonderful friends and that means a lot.
Interviewer: “Are there any thoughts that you want to add?”
No, I can’t think of any unless you want to ask me more questions. I feel like I did a
decent job for you. 3:42
Interviewer: “This has been a wonderful time.”
Do you tell everyone that?
Interviewer: “No, but each one is that unique.”
We are all different, right. Get Dolly going and you will enjoy her.
Interviewer: “Thank you very much and good-bye”
Thank you Frank, it was nice meeting you. 3:42
17
�18
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Interviews
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The All-American Girls Professional Baseball League was started by Philip Wrigley, owner of the Chicago Cubs, during World War II to fill the void left by the departure of most of the best male baseball players for military service. Players were recruited from across the country, and the league was successful enough to be able to continue on after the war. The league had teams based in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan, and operated between 1943 and 1954. The 1954 season ended with only the Fort Wayne, South Bend, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Rockford teams remaining. The League gave over 600 women athletes the opportunity to play professional baseball. Many of the players went on to successful careers, and the league itself provided an important precedent for later efforts to promote women's sports.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-58)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Sports for women
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives
Oral history
Baseball players--Minnesota
Baseball players--Indiana
Baseball players--Wisconsin
Baseball players--Michigan
Baseball players--Illinois
Baseball for women--United States
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections and University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-58
Format
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video/mp4
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-10-02
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-58_MJenkins
Title
A name given to the resource
Jenkins, Marilyn M. (Interview transcript and video), 2008
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jenkins, Marilyn
Description
An account of the resource
Marilyn Jenkins was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1934. She grew up in Grand Rapids and played baseball with family and friends, and played softball with the neighborhood kids. When the Grand Rapids Chicks arrived in 1945, she talked her way into a job with the team and quickly became their batgirl, a job she held through the 1951 season. She played as a batgirl from 1945 thru 1951. Upon graduating high school in 1952, she became eligible to play in the All American Girls Professional Baseball League and went on to play with the Grand Rapids Chicks from 1952 to 1954 as a catcher.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Boring, Frank (Interviewer)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Video recordings
All-American Girls Professional Baseball League--Personal narratives
Baseball for women--United States
Baseball
Sports for women
World War, 1939-1945
Baseball players--Michigan
Women
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2008-07-01
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/484">All-American Girls Professional Baseball League Collection, (RHC-55)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4