715 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ba8ce7d8bbc356a6df340cba1d81784f.mp4 a8e29ca5802f5ccb357191e6399f29b8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f7bfdd0b881f0bcb3cb415f837cfb5c9.pdf b1c7ef04ae9595e9d5ed55bf60089e24 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State Univeristy Veterans History Project MarthaJane Kirby (00:55:47) (00:25) Background Information • Martha was born in Kansas City, Missouri on November 4, 1927 • Her father had worked for the local newspaper and played instruments in bands on the side • Her mother died when she was ten years old • She enjoyed school and remembered being a freshman in high school when Pearl Harbor was attacked • Her high school years were surrounded by the war effort and many young people she knew were being drafted into the service • Martha graduated from high school on D Day • She recalled the rationing of meat, coffee, sugar, tires, and women’s nylons • She went through mandatory ROTC training in school • After school Martha began working as a file clerk and also began doing a little modeling (07:15) Jack and Stan • Martha had been dating a young man named Jack and he was in Iwo Jima with his friend Stan. Jack and Stan agreed to start writing to each other’s girlfriends so that if something happened to one of them, the other could communicate with his girlfriend. • Jack was killed in battle and Stan and Martha started a regular correspondence • They wrote each other for eighteen months and fell in love through the process, aided by a photograph of Martha that a professional photographer had taken that she had sent originally to Jack [picture is in this collection] • Stan came back to Kansas City to visit on June 19, 1946 (12:20) Life after the War • Stan began taking classes at MSU and it was hard for him to adjust to civilian life • Martha and Stan got married the next summer after he returned from service • Martha passed the civil service exam and began working as a secretary for the highway department • Stan got his degree is art and began working for a radio station and later began working in printing sales and graphic arts (18:20) High School during the War • Martha dated many men from high school while they were visiting on leave, but would only go out with each of them once because she did not want to get too attached • She often went to the movies, dances, and sports games • She had wanted to take classes at the University of Missouri �• She paid very close attention to news of the war because she knew so many people that were overseas, including her brother (30:05) War Movies • Many movies about World War Two are historically wrong and do not correctly represent the war • Stan was pretty upset when Letters From Iwo Jima came out (31:30) Hard Times during the War • Martha’s family had to drive far out of the way just to get gas • Martha made all of her own clothes when she could actually get her hands on some material • Shoes were also hard to come by • During the war Martha was very lonely with her brother and many friends overseas while she lived with only her dad and grandma • It took her husband fifty years to write his memoirs of Iwo Jima because it was such a horrible experience [these are in this collection] (40:05) Iwo Jima • Stan remembered seeing lifeless marines all over the place in bits and pieces • The smell was horrible from all the dead bodies • There were many Japanese bodies floating in the water (41:40) Marriage • Martha was very glad that she got married to Stan and not Jack • They were married for 57 years, had two kids, and one grandson �r "LOVE LETTERS· Preface The following pages contain excerpts from some of Stan's letters to me along with a few that are longer in length. With more than 200 to sort thru it's difficult in more ways than one to write them down. My husband was Cpl. Stanley D. Kirby, born in Lansing, Michigan; joined the United States Marine Corps on April 4,1944; trained in San Diego CA and also Camp Pendleton, CA, deployed to Oahu and Maui late '44 and served in combat on Iwo Jima February 19, 1945 to March 31, 1945. Returned to Maui Rest Camp and Oahu until returned to the States and arrived in Kansas City, MO, my home town, June 19,1946. I was his wife for 57 wonderful and happy years from 1947 to 2004. My name is Marthajane (nee Farrington) Kirby, from Kansas City, MO. ' .. Stan died January 16,2004 and is buried in the cemetery at Saranac MI where our graves, eventually, will be together. He was honored January 24, 2004 by the 24th Division Marine Corps Honor Guard from Grand Rapids, MI with full military honors, this being the division of the Corps he represented. This was a beautiful ceremony with 7 Marines in full dress uniforms who saluted him with rifle fire, gave me his U.S. flag and played "Taps" .... which I felt at that time ... "This is the last time you willhear this played, Stan. Know that I willlove you forever. " -- Your Janie ++++++ i0,.,; .· Saranac, MI 48881 j L._ '~t~~~:l~~KirbY . .~_._. �, ·LOVELETTERS' Some of my friends have asked me to reveal Stan's letters to me during World War Two. I feel they were written just for me ... my eyes ... my love for him. It's a feeling that envelops me as it seems that's all I have left of him at this time of my life. They are so personal, so precious I can't bear to part with them. However, I willcopy here from his letters those that are either funny, or not too personal Peoplehave to remember that during a war, no Marine can divulge his daily life, where he goes, what's possibly on the horizon (i.e. more combat) what he does every day regarding his work with the Marine Corps. He did however say which island he was on ... Maui, the USMCrest camp between campaigns. Only by the grace ofGod did he escape going to more combat on Okinawa as he had not been in rest camp long enough. ++++ Let's begin with the beginning. While at Camp Pendleton in CA, Stan met my highschool ·steady· and they fast became good friends and went on liberty together. Stan had a ·steady" too back in Michigan while 'Jack' was from Missouri, my home state. They decided to write each other's girlfriend in order to keep tabs on what was going on and where. Jack's first letter to me about Stan: 9-18-44.....I didn't get to answer your letter last night as a guy named Kirby and I went on liberty to Santa Monica. • 11-7-44", -Kirby wants to tell you 'hello'... (had his writing there) Everytime I start to write to you he says to tell you that. He likes your picture and says he willcall you up if he evergets to KansasCity.• ,11-9-44 .... Tm sorry I didn't know about your birthday. Kirby asked mewhen it was and I told him you already hadyour birthday! He really laughed at me about that when I told him I got your letter and you already had celebrated your birthday! " Mr. Stanley Kirby 8468 Macarthur Rd. Saranac, MI 48881-9517 , ,,' . • �12-7-44.... "Igot my first letter from you since being overseas and it was wonderful to hear from you. Youprobably have the letter Stan wrote to you last night. He saidhe wanted to write and tellyou how sweet he thought you were. Stan wants me to write to hisgirl and if I ever finish writing to everyone else I'm going to. Aren't you jealous? Answer his letterif you ever get time. I11get to read it anyway, so don't try to change boyfriends. (Just kidding, darling.) Note from JK ... not only ·changed" but married!" 12-26-44 .... ·Well, Kirby went into the 24th Marines but at least we are still in the Fourth Division. It ++++ On February 19, 1945 Jack and Stan headed for combat on 1wo Jima. They were on different ships so had no direct contact. Jack was killed on 1wo the second day of the invasion ... February 20, 1945. ++++ . - My first letter from Stan .... Dec. 6, 1944. • ·Hi Martha: I am writing this just to establish a friendship as Jack and I are great pals and we have a lot of time to discuss ourgirlfriends back home. He is really in love with you, Martha. After the war, Jack and you and mygirl and I are going to meet in Chicago andgo to the Trianon or Aragon and dance and tear Chicago apart! I hope this happens. Don't ever worry about Jack as Tm sure nothing willhappen to such a greatguy!" 1-21-45 .:"1 am writing to inquire about Jack as we are on different ships now and I can't possibly get in touch with him. Would you please send me his mailing address? Thonksl" 2-15-45.... -r doubt if you received my last letter but I'd sure like to have Jack's address.. �3-21-45 ... "Dear Martha: I hope this poor excuse for a letter finds you well and happy. I can't remember if I answered your swell letter or not. I'm all fouled up anyway. "Iwo"had quite a few effects on me! I lost some very close friends there, and I guess most everyone did. Beingmy first combat experience I wish I couldhave been "broken in"a little easier!' I wish I hadyour letter here but it's packed awayat the present. Oh well! Jack and I were split up a little while after we came overseas. Ineversaw him again and IguessI never WIll Isure think the world ofhim. He was the best pal a guy could ever have. We were such close friends. We talked about each other'sgirls all the time and I guess that's why I feel I have known you for years. I wish I were back in the States now. I alwaysloved March. The smell of the woodsgets me. Mygirlfriend and I always felt t h e . same way about those things. We alwayshad a lot ofhikes and picnics. I · . alwayslike to remember those things, but she changed and I don't find myself writing to her about those memories. She might just as wellhave written me a "Dear John" letter as that's what it was. JK note: Stan's letter arrived a week before the War Dep't telegram to Jack's Mother. 4-8-45 .... "About Jack: I want you to know I'dgive my right arm to have him back I loved thatguy like a brother. It's needless to say more 'cause you know how I feel I tried to let you know in my last letter, but due to censoring I couldn't come right out and tell you tho. We are at a wonderful rest camp nowand we were given a wonderful reception when our ship docked. It reallygave me a lump in my throat. They gave us coffee, donuts, and candy. before we left the docks.. The band was playingand everyone was cheering. Being the first time I'd ever experienced such a thing it reallygave me an emotional thrill I really appreciate it and the same goes for the other fella's. I'll never forget it. Thanks for the nice compliment about my nice letters to you. Do you like Glenn Miller'smusic? I love all the slow, beautiful music. And I love sports, especially tennis. " Mart~ajane Kirby' 8468 MacArthur Rd. • . Saranac, MI 48881 �(Several letters in between these) 4-11-45 .... Just saw the movie 'National Velvet' ... a very good film. But it sure made me lonely at times. Everytime I see a movie like that it's just like I was back home again. Then I look around and shrink! I need to close now as my mind is playing tricks on me. • 4-14-45 .... "Tt's rathergloomy around here tonight. Just the type of night to stay in and fiddle around. I wonder what you are doing tonight? 4-15-45 .... 'A Tree Grows in Brooklyn'is playing here tomorrow night, with the originalplaywritellstarring in it. Taps is playingnowso I have to stop here. Love, Stan· 4-19-45 .... Just a few lines. I hope you don't mind my calling you 'Jane'. If you do, say so! Last night at the theater, I saw 'The Man Who Came To Dinner'... it was the real thing with Moss Hart playing the leading role. It was reallygood. Six beautifulgirls also starred in it! Youknow Jane, I wonder what you are like. Til bet you go for sports, more or less. Doyou like tennis? I should like to meet y~u someday. Doyou think that can be arranged? Of course, God only knows when Tm comingback to the states. Unless I'm wounded or something similar. Til have to put at least 20 months in over here. If I ever do get back I'm going to make a special effort to see you! OK?· Several more letters the weeks following. 4-22-45 .... Dear Jane: I've been listening to records tonight and itgot me so lonesome, I'd likely cracked up. So I just had to write to you. When I listen to music I get so, oh, I don't know, sorta moody I guess. If I were smart I'd stay away from those sweet records! Another paragraph follows: "Pooey, I can't write anymore. My imagination gets the best ofme. So Til close. Please write soon .:. until then, bye nowand take care ofyourself. Love, sran" 4-25-45 ....Please send me a picture ofyou as I onlyhad a few shortglances at the wonderfulpicture ofyou that Jack had. Janie, Tve made up my mind! �I am coming to Kansas City to meet you when I get back! And I pray I do, and you do the same!" I sure wish I could see you sooner than what I will /:i.? able to. I don't have to tell you about the people here. I have no anxiety whatsoever to search for a nice girl, even tho she might be white! I have just as much fun on liberties playing tennis, taking pictures, etc. I hope you don't think Tm a habitual drinker either. It's a waste of money, Let's talk about you ... I'm sure you don't drink or smoke. To me a girl that drinks has lost everything she could ever have hoped to have as far as respect, etc.I know you are everything a guy could ask for. I don't know why, but I can just tell I hope you'll never change, Janie. If 4-28-45 .... "Justgot 3 letters fromsn: today and the picture. I was surprisedbut even more. glad. I like the picture very well! You know, from what you tell me about where you work, you must be a designer. About the magazines your picture is featured on the cover, they have not arrived yet but when they do I'll probably rip them to pieces to get to them! I guess we're pretty much alike in all things ....music and all Get -I Dream of You"as you come to mind whenever I hear it. -Youknow, you're kinda crazy in a very likeable way! I thought I wouldsplit when you wrote about the cake and safety towels:-..(Diapers) I got the biggest bang out of that! What a girl! (JK: I took care of my cousin on occasion when my Aunt had to work late.) "Please write soon again, Janie. I can'tget enough ofyour letters ... they are wonderful p.5. NO ... I come from Lansing, Michigan!! 4-29-45 .... "Went to church services this morning ... it was a nice service but I think about home too much at such a time. Very discouraging. Janie, I believe I can tell you now about Jack. He was killed instantly with no pain whatsoever. He was sitting in a foxhole with two officers on the front lines when a large shell fell in the hole. When I saw him? he lookedjust as usual, like he was sleeping. Tm sorry for bringing it up aga/n, Janie. He was a good Marine, and I know you are proud ofhim. Youhave all my sympathies and please let me know if I can do anything for you. Begood, and God Bless You. Love always, Stan If ... . . '. • . .Martt"!ajane Kirby' 8468 MacArthur Rd. . Saranac, MI 48881 t{ �5-1-45 .... "This is the present and I don't like to think ahead too much. Do you think you'd like to see me at the end of one and a halfyears? But this is the present and I know I want to meet you now. In my position I don't like to think or promise into the future. Know what I mean?There's something on my mind tho, and I know you can't help but to have thought about it also. Briefly, my writing to you and etc. I want you to know I couldn't, nor wouldI ever try to, take Jack's place. I know how much you loved him and what he meant to you. It puts me in a very mean position and I don't know how you're going to feel about it. Tm hopingyou willhelp me out, Janie. Please say exactly how you feel As it is, I enjoy writing you very much and I'm hoping to meet you someday. Love, Stan" 5-4-45 ... This letter is in response to a photo I sent him that' I had used to enter a national contest, and won it too! But I didn't tell Stan at that point. "Janie, I love the picture you sent me. It's just perfect. Thanksa million. Tm gazing at it right now. The fella's in my tent here think you're very beautiful, but I think you're more than just beautiful! You expressedyourselfbetter in this letter than"!: did in my last one. You see, I wrote something on the same order. Tm gladyou feel the way you do about God having a hand in things. I feel the very same way. It does seem as if it was meant to be and not wrongat all Yet I still feelguilty when I write you as if I had no business to occupy any ofyour time, or accept your swell letters as greedily as I do, because of Jack. rll tell you nowjust exactly how I feel because I don't believe anymore in keeping my thoughts back. Even tho Tve never seen you or been with you, I know that if I were to look for the person, I wouldpick you. I canjust tell from your letters that you're the type anyguy could hope for. This is just not flattery or roses, it's just the God's truth. I appreciate your saying you hope nothing happens to me and that you are praying for me. Itgives me a solid feeling inside to know that it matters. Etc. .......AII my love, Stan" �5-6-45 .... "Two wonderful letters from you .... etc. Your records sound swell to me. I wish I could be there with you listening to them right now. Tm lonely as hell tonight. Somehow I got into this mood on liberty today. Very discouraging! I imagine lot of things ... maybe classified under dreaming. I do have one trouble tho, that I get very jealous sometimes. I always was that way but I think I'm getting over that now, more or less. However when I wrote that letter I was picturing us together ... etc. Please don't worry about some of the things I say but I believe that whatever Pve written you is the God's truth and I hope it's the same with you. Somehow I miss you, how I can without ever knowingyou I can't figure out, but it's so. Must close, Janie. With all my love, Stan" Note from JK. I'm skipping thru lots of letters because this next one is so important. 5-16-45 ... You have a wonderful way ofexplaining things, Janie, and I can understand everything you write. I know how you fee~ and if I didn't feel the same, I wouldn't understandso easily. There's something tho we both must consider before itgets too late, and that is, we've both had tough luck I lost mygirl andyou lost Jack We both are »ccustomed to someone to love and receiving accordable letters. What Tm driving at it's that we've both been in love before and now, Jack's gone, I haven't seen mygirl for a long time and it's sorta like I'm your "Jack" and you are my "girl" Don'tget me wrong tho, I could never make a go of it with her again because I now know her true selfand I found it very easy to forget her. " JK ... skipping letters again. -Yes, the picture yougot was the one I was waiting for from CA. Tm glad you like it, tho it's a little flattering. You don't know how much Tm looking forward to being with you. I think about comingback so much I almostgo crazy sometimes or at least it seems I build lots of dreams and then I realize I'll be over a long time yet, and then there's the chance rll neverget back but I try not to let it bother me too much. Which boils down to the fact that if something ever happened to me, I'dwant you to know that writing to you, and the friendship we've built has meant the world to me. It must be real and it must work out. I hope you are waiting for me when I return. And, Janie, I am so glad you want to wait for me! All my love, Stan" M~rthajane ' . Kirby' 8468 MacArthur Rd. '!P. Saranac, MI 48881 .. �6-4-45 .... (skipping here) ... "Just saw a wonderful show so I'll finish my letter now. Saw Gypsy Rose Lee in -Bel;'of the Yukon.' Yeow!* The show was wonderful and they played a great song: T Love You But I Don't Know Why I do. N Very fitting, isn't it? I sure wish this war was over and I could be on my way to you. This waiting and waiting is slowly driving me insane. You wait to fight, and ifyou're lucky you wait to fight again. Nothing to look forward to except of course going home someday. I guess that's what keeps mostguysgoing over here, and that's the faint prayer way down deep that you'llget back Sounds kinda 'down' doesn't it? AIImy love, StanN 6-6-45 ... I'm sorry about how you felt on Memorial Day. I wish I could have been there to comfort you in some way. Keep your chin up, honey and try to look on the better side of life. I don't want to encourage your forgetting Jack even ifit was possible. I want to play square with you, something I didn't do with mygirl She lied to me and I lied to her and we were always Gotta go, All my bucking against each other. It isn't any good that way. Love, StanN -6-9-45 ..... The tent is vacant and there's some siteet music coming from far down the way and it makes it easier to write a nice letter to you. Tonight I listened to Hit Parade and heard -Laura N... that piece I love. It's a haunting melody. Sometimes it's hard to visualize you and to impress upon myself that I know you when I don't, but everything seems so perfect, so right, that I can't help but love you now. It seems so easy to write, that I think so much ofyou and I hope I don't change my mind when we're finally together. I think the world ofyour letters and when somedays I don't hear from you for a day or two, I feel rather funny, kinda lost I guess.... Thanks a million for the pictures. I like them very much. Only every picture you sendjust doubles my desire to be with you. When I get them it seems I am right there with you..... Please write soon again ..... All my love, Stan N �b­ 1-14-45 ... ·Hi, how's mygirl? Tonight I really feel fine. I just came back from the post office where I picked up the pictures you sent in the folder (contest ones, but he didn't know that then) Janie, they're super!! The new one.llike best of all. I think the world of them and the folder is just the right size. Thanks so much for sending them. You'll never know how much it means to me. You're just naturally the most wonderfulperson in the world! Today we had a parade for some fella's that were getting medals. Boy, am I tired! Imagine standing with your feet in the same spots for 2 and a half hours! Then we paraded around again and shoved off. What a life, But the boys sure looked nice with their "silver"and "bronze" stars! The only medals I want are my dog-tags, right around my neck! ..... etc. Well, it'sgetting late so Til shove off. Til be dreaming ofyou, with all my love ... Your Stan •• V N 6-15-45.... Hello Darling ... justgot in from liberty and I sure wasglad to see 2 letters from you! I have your pictures propped up in the lid of my locker trunk and I'm thinking nice things ofyou! They're just wonderfulpictures and I wouldn'tpart with them for anything. More people who have never been in our tent before come in and gaze at your pictures and drool! You asked me to tell you how I feel and I will. I told you before but I'll try again. We'll start with mygirl. I went with her for.. 4 years and itgot so I worshipped her. I was a fool and didn't know it. It took what finally happened to snap me out ofit. Yousee, Darling, mine is a case of 'lovedand lost' because I was too stupid to realize the part I played in her life, which was damn little! When she got engaged I lost all faith ingirls ... it's not just my case, it's dozens ofotherguys whogot the same deal so it can't be said it happened as "just one of those things. " I know that your letters and knowing you how I do has changed me a lot. It gave me something to live for, something to look forward to. Your letters so often, the pictures now and then have meant a lot, Janie. In a way Tm terribly in love with you. And I hope you can understand what I've tried to explain. Gottago ... 'Taps'is sounding. So till later Darling, I'll be thinking ofyou with all my love, Your Stan N . .~. .. . Marthajane Kirby' 8468 MacArthur Rd. Saranac, MI 48881 '1 �The following are parts of my ·very special" love letters from Stan from the years '44 to '46. His letters averaged from 2 pages to more than 12; some days he wrote twice . 8-6-45 ..'iUy Darling: "Received your wonderful letter just now. That kiss (lipstick print I had sent in my letter) really thrilled me, Honey. How about some more of them? Andyou say you'll do better when I'm there?" "I can't exactly put a kiss down in print here, but you can bet I'm really tryingr "It's rainingagain, darnit! Last night I stoodguard duty for four hours in this mud and rain. I thought a great deal about you at that time. I dream of being in a convertible with you, and sitting in the rain with you to love while some beautiful music is playing." "But I can't help it, with this life I am leading one has to have a hope, or a prayer ofhis own that someday he hopes willcome true, in order that he may continue every day without losing his mind completely. That's the way I feel about you, Janie. You're my hope. You are that 'ray ofsunshine' I need so much in this life, being overseas and all I think so much ofyou, I respect your manne"', your ways, your-: faithfulness and commonsense. I want to be with you and laugh and talk with you. In a way I'm deeply in love with you, considering the fact we've never really known each other.................... Well, Darling I guess rll close for tonight. I love you, Janie, so be good and wait for me. I miss you with ... All my love, Stan. 8-10-45 ....JAPANSURRENDERS!! "My Darling: This is a wonderful day, I guess you know! I got the news about four AM. Guys were running around yelling and shouting. I couldn't quite collect myself and then someone yelled that "Japansarrenderedll" I fast about fell off my cot. Of course it isn't officialyet but close enough to be happy about it. I hope and pray that the armistice is signed soon. What time did you hear about it and how did you feel? That's a silly question . 'cause I know how you must have felt. The people back there must begoing wild. The radio said that in London it was worse than V-E Day! Td better hear from you today Darling (and he did) 'cause that wouldmake the day lO �really perfect!" Til close for now hoping to see you and love you soon, with all my love, " Stan 9-18-45 ... ·My Darling: Receivedyour letter and the swell picture of Jack Honey, you'll never know how much that picture means to me and Til keep it always. Thanks so much for sending it. Tonight Tm onguard duty at our communications storeroom. It's kinda desolate here ... everything is crated up andprepared to be laoded aboard ship. But the radio is playing beautiful music and Tm thinking of you so the desolation doesn't phaze me much. I hope MacArthur wasn't wrong when he said only 200,000 men over. here. That statement ofhis sure caused a lot ofexcitement among the men ... the ·big guns" in politics that is! The radio this AM said the 2nd division and the 5th Marine divsions are slated for occupation in Japan. That's 40,000 men right there and Tm sure the Army has enough men over here to make up the balance. Damn, I wish I knew just what was going to happen ... and when! I really want that "contest" picture ofyours-but I'm afraid I might be transferred soon so just keep it until Lm sure where I'll be? You haven't told me what the contest was but that you won$5OO! Tm SO anxious to know ... a beauty contest or what? Come on, Jani&, tell me!!!" They just played ·Laura"on some station. That piece gets me. There's something mystical about the melody, and I get chills every time I hear it. Did you see the movie ·Laura"? Well, like the guy in the movie, I too fell in love with a picture ... a picture ofyou. I guess that's why I love that piece so. Did you know that "way back" when Jack and I were at Camp Pendleton, that when he showed me your picture then, I seemed to know you, altho we'd never met. Well, Darling time grows short and they are about to douse the lights, so I'll secure this... Keep loving me, as I do you, always. All my love, Your Stan. " ' " !!P .. Ma,rthajane Kirby' 8468 MacArthur Rd. Saranac, MI 48881 If �11-14-45 ..... HDarling Janie: I received a vel)' sweet letter from you and I was so glad to hear from you. Apparently our mail from all of October and a lot of November has been delayed because the Army won't carl)' Navy mail! So you probably have received some ofyour letters to me back to you! No, I haven't received the letters with the photos and clippingsin them and it makes me so GD mad because I want them so much! Honey, Tve been watching the LihLmagazines weekly but so far your picture has not been on the cover!... Janie, I was never so sure of anything in my life as I am of the fact that I am the closest thing to being in love with you. I realized that before and was sure of that when I missedyour letters so much! I want you to know that I could love you vel)' much and all I need is to get back there and ifit isn't pretty soon, I'/Igo crazy just wantingyou! Whatever it ts, it has me going around in square circles/ I don't know why ... (my girl) wrote me but if it's for the reason you wrote (like she wanted him back?) ... well that's tough 'cause I wouldn't have anything to do with her if she were knee deep in Hell. If she's crawling~ she's crawlingin the wrong directionl" Jame, no one could ever be more faithful to me tnltn you ... when you wrote ·Semper Fidelis" at the end ofyour letter you described yourselfperfectly. I don't think there ever could be anyone more faithful to a guy than yourself, and if it should happen that someday you should love me, I'd consider myself the luckiestguy in the world. If, as you've written before Tm the onlyguy you couldget serious over at this time, I wouldn't care how many swobbies; Marines or Doggies you went out with as long as you stJ11 felt the same about mel Because even tho I've never seen you or felt your love, r m content to forget any woman over here. I don't believe in this lying and pretending .. I had enough of that with my 'last romance.' Maybe people can't fall in love thru letters, but I believe I have. I have told you I lovedyou as it seems it was written because I wanted to love you so much. It seemed like I not only felt your thoughts thru letters. but also thru some strong~ unexplainable force. Some power tl]llt only two people in love can feel and utilize. Well Janie I'm up to page 11 and running out ofstationery. Please tell me you feel the same about me and that you love me. Those things I long to hear I love you, Janie. Allmy love, Your Stan H p.. �11-24-45.... -HiHoney: I just finished developing and printing some pictures which I'm enclosing. I'm just learning, so bear with me! I know you said your "darkroom technique wasgreat .... Wow! (OK, so that's not what you meantl) Anyway, here they are..... So, you liked my song I wrote? I love to write lyrics and wish I could do that all my life. I'll sing it to you softly some night when we are together. ..... I remember you saying in one ofyour last two letters that you 'tried to make me happy' and Janie, you have. Since I've been writing you Tve been a different person. We've helped each other out so much. We helped each other to forget the kicks in the face we got. Fl! always think the world ofyou for making me forget all of it. You brought me out of a nasty rut, and made me sure that life was worth livingagain. But my trouble was nothing; you lost your love and he'll never be able to live again. I'm sorry for writing that, but you see, when you said that I made you laugh andbe happy againI feel that I have done something God would want done. And I wanted so much for you to smlle and live again; what's happened in the past has happened and it can't begone over like a play. Andyou must look for happiness in the future. That's a cold way ofsaying it, Darling, but it's God's will, I'm sure. So let's look to the future Janie and try our best to be happy andmake our friendship a lovely Godsend -I want to continue loving you with All my love, Stan H H H ' .. 1-2-46 ... -My Darling Rosebud... After about a week I finally received a letter from you and it was so good to hear from you. My morale lifted 100% when I saw your letter! Christmas on Oahu was not verygood ... no Christmas tree, lights, not even a rain to make it feel like "home.' .... It really tickles me how you write 'Hubba Hubba'in your letters. I really laughed over that. I like that characteristic about you so much ... that you're funny. Oh, Honey we'llhave so much fun together. You'rejust the kind ofgirl I like, with a sense of humor. I love to laugh and have a good time and when Tm in the proper place at the proper time I like to be serious and be loved..... I know exactly how you felt on Christmas Eve. I felt like bustin' out crying myself when the choir sang carols in our chapel here. I think they're beautiful It touched me deeply, Darling, when you said you prayed for my return and makes me love you so much more, if that's at all possibte. When you say things like that I get kinda warm all over and I feel so close to you. You'll never know how much those little things mean to me. I guess it's the little things that keep a true love aglow. Agreed? Time for some winks, so rll say: I love you, I love you, I love you, Please write me lots ofsweet letters. All my love, Stan' . Marth.!ajane Kirby' 8468 MacArthur Rd. .• . . Saranac, MI 48881 �Note: (from JK) This is page 13-A .... I got interrupted and didn't start back where I left off! 12-23-45 .... uHi Darling: Got a letter from you about 30 minutes ago. At present I'm down at the Navy Yard where I work I was asleep before we came down and someone woke me up and threw your letter at me, which when I saw who it was from, made me happy. All day long I wanted to hear from you! Tm still chuckling from reading that letter! I got a big honk out of it Honey. But before I go into that I want to congratulate you on the contest, knowing now what kind if was, but you won the "hps"contest with me the first time I saw your picture, in fact the most beautiful lips I have ever had the pleasure of drooling over.! The snow and winter scene you describe and the atmosphere sounds wonderful I sure miss the snow and cold weather. Christmas isn't real with me unless there's snow. As far as the "half-sleepy"peaceful evening, I do know what you mean! It's the kind of feeling you-get after you've been out skating . or tobogganing and then you come in out of the cold and snow and settle around the fireplace. Mmmmm, I do know what you mean, Darling. Yeh, just try'n wash my face with snow!! Til trim yer ears! (The rest of the letter contained a questionnaire we both had given our answers to ..... way too long (8 pages) to copy here.....JK) Well, I'd better close and look around for some work to do before they make me a "private"again! 'Bye love, and write often. I love you dearly. Yours always, Stan" �12-15-45.... Darling Janie: I have to go to chow soon and to work as I have the midnight shift. But I just finished reading three letters from you and it was so good to hear from you. Before I go any further I'll tell you I also received the registered letter from you with the LD. bracelet enclosed and I think it's swell It couldn't have been a more perfectgift, Darling, but you shouldn't have done it! Thank you so much, Janie. I can't repay you with a gift before Christmas but I'll be sure to make up for it later. It was so sweet ofyou to send me something. I wish I could kiss you for it and I will" someday!! Thanks again. (More problems with the USMCmail reaching the troops ... Army problem again!) .....Honey, I'm sorry you have strep throat and please keep special care ofyourself... for me. 1-8-46 ....Hi sweet ... here I am again, Rosebud. There's some sweet music floating thru the tents right now and it makes me in the mood for a kiss from you ... maybe more than one! Say, Honey, do you have any 'Tabu' perfume right now? If so wouldyou please put a drop of it on your next letter? I love the smell of it. (note from JK: not on your life, that wasyour girl's favorite!) I didn'tget to write you last night as we have a whole different schedule now... on 8 hours, off 8 hours, on again, each week until we have worked all shifts. I do lose a little sleep ~ it's impossible to sleep in the daytime here. The latest news here is that I might not be able to come back until late July or August, Janie. It's a long time to ask you to wait for me, but it wouldmean everything to me ifyou could. You'll never have to worry about me and girls over here. I just don't fool around with women. I never was the type to chase after them anyway. I can very easily wait until I have you to love. To me, you are worth waiting for, for years if necessary. Me again.... 'Tis nowgoing on 0700 and boy, am I tired. I don't think Tl! eat chow this morning... guess rll just hit the sack and sleep and sleep and when I'm tired of that I'll start over. Gottaget my mosquito net up, so I'll be closin' here Honey. All my love, Your Stan" �1-11-46 .... My Rosebud: I just received 14 letters from you and it was so good to hear from you finally! I am in myglory when I readyour sweet letters and I've read each and every one at least 3 times!.... About the tinted (contest) picture honey, please send it to me here if you can. I want to have it with me. Tm going to hang it up here and show you off! And, I think I'll write 'Stan's girl' right underneath it! Yes, send it to me, Honey, please!!....Now, the perfume!!!!!!! Marthajane. do you realize you almost caused a revolution here in the barracks with that elegant odor? When they brought the mail in, I knew I had a letter from you! Everyone wanted to sniffmy letter and then they'd drool! That's really a fine perfume and I love it. You said it was Tntoxication'??? You'll probably smell it on this letter too as I put the little piece of cotton in my stationery box. When I smell something like that I just want to cuddle up to it. You'll find out I really go for perfumes, Darling! Tm getting sleepy so I'll close for now but I'll say, I love you, oh so much and want to be near you terribly, so be good and wait faithfully for me and someday soon I hope to give you...... All my Love, Your Stan" (note from JK...above letter I hadgiven him advice about his camera problem and he was happy to know how to fix it.llj 1-11-46.....Hi there Rosebud: Pm down at the offi~ ....I forgot to mention in my letter last night that I received the pictures you sent. I like each one very much. They're very nice pictures ofyou. Youseem to be more beautiful in every picture you send, and Tm wondering if I deserve such a gorgeous creature? I have both of them right under my stationery box so I'll pull you out now and drool over you! Did you know that your hair is something out of this world? It's beautifuL.. There, that's done ... I finally got this messed up Zippo lighter to work (Note from JK: I bought Stan a beautiful Ronson lighter, which he dearly wanted. I told him about it but we decided to wait until he came home to give it to hlm.) Marthajane Kirby' • ... 8468 MacArthur Rd. . Saranac, MI 48881 �1-13-46 ...Hello my Darling: I have a few minutes before the lightsgo out so I'll drop you a line or two then Til write you again tonite at the office, if there's not too much work ..... There's something I want to talk about before anything else, and that is about when Til be coming back., You see, I only have 32 points which isn't a lot. Well, anyway I saw some orders the other day ....but here's the point -- I'm pretty sure ofbeing eligible to come back the 1st of A1f¢. Being eligible then Td probably be back sometime in June, if this plan takes effect. And Darling, June isn't too far away. To DH:.just the thought of being sure ofgoing home in a few months kinda makes my heart flutter andgives me something to look forward to..... not only you and us, but home and my family again. I know it seems long to you because your life as far as routine hasn't changed much ....I know you understand because you love me, and I know we see things thru the same eyes ....My only worry is you, Janie..... you've got to wait for me and notget involved with anyone else. If you were to find someone else I would feel that I'd have been robbed of someone that might have been meant to be my wife someday.... and then Fd feel that there was just no medium in faith and courage. Tm sure you understandhow I feel I guess it's just another way ofsaying I love you so darn much and needyou even more. Well, Darling, time for lights out ....I love you, Janie ~ -------- Please don't ever leave me, Janie. " --- Your Stan 1-18-46 Just came back from the movie I just received a beautiful letter from you and it made me feel so good. It was so darn sweet where you wrote about staying home alone while it snowed and playingyour records while you were writing me and thinking ofme so much. It was written so beautifully Darling that if I had any tears in me I wouldhave shed them over your sweetness. But right nowTve got to get some sleep ... back later, Honey. I lied to you, Honey! I didn't really sleep at all like I said I planned to. I couldn't ... I kept thinking ofyou in a way I never expected to. Thingsand places raced thru my mind like wildfire and I don't quite understand it. I felt shaky and alert, just like times on Iwo when I was so mixed up with fear and anxiety and ignorance of what wouldhappen that I wanted to get out of my foxhole and run, and never stop. Td better stop crying on your shoulder ... let's see, where were we . �1-18-46 .... later, at the office ..... "Sometimes I just sit and stare at your pictures and sortaget a lump in my throat when I think ·she's mygirl" .., She waits for me and no one else. She may step out once in awhile with a friend, but her heart belongs to me. " About the grass skirt ... I can buy one for you ifyou promise you willsend me the pictures when they are finished! Don't worry about paying me for it Honey; I can afford it. I want to give you all the help you need with your modeling career you have your heart set on. You are so beautiful, Janie I never tire oflookingat you." .....AIImy love, Your Stan. p.5. Is Dan (photographer) married????" 2-2-46 ....Receivedanother letter from you. Yes, I thought about that -­ about writing to you for a year. III bet I thought ofit before you did .., when the new year started I knew that along with January came something I'll never forget ...when I started writing to you. We'll call it our "Postal Anniversary" Darling! Til bet very few people ever had one! Well, we have, so on "oor anniversary" III say in the past year you have brought me dreams of happiness that I needed badly and I'll remember it the rest ofmy life. " We'llbe together soon Darling and we willlive a lifetime in that first few weeks and if things work out we'llspend the rest of our lives together. " 2-5-46 .... (The funnies) jk .....Hi there Rosebud! Smitty just came in and wants to write a few lines to you. 'Stanley is proving to be somewhat of a problem in the barracks. He has a beautiful young siren's picture displayed in a rather unique way. We didn't mind the neon lights around it which are lit all night and so is Stanley, but when he put in the whistle, which blows on the hour, that is too much! As it is we could have done without the whistle as there is enough of that done by the wolves in the barracks, of which I'm proud to say that I'm not! Wipe that sneer offyour face. ,It ••••••• Smitty 2-8-46 "Hi Rosebud: Tm so tired I can hardly see straight. These all nite shifts are killin'me! Yesterday I sent you a Valentine (flowers with a card from a HI floristl--and a Valentine card from Stan:::(Whenever I hear beautiful music I just lean back and pretend I am with you, in your arms. I never knew dreaming could be so consoling. I stillpinch myself when I look at your picture to see if Tm dreaming. I can hardly believe I could have someone like you ... it's an act ofGoel, I believe, Darling. Write and tell me you love me lots of times. " AIImy love, Stan" • Marthajane Kirby' 8468 MacArthur Rd. Saranac, MI 48881 �2-28-46 ..... Viis letter refers to the movie "Love Letters" ... and is 12 pages long so I'll condense it for now. "My Darling Janie: I'm down at the office now and I'm going to write you from here. Before I came on duty I saw "Love Letters".... I thought it was a wonderful movie and as you wanted me to, I paidparticular attention to the plot, scheme, etc. You know, Darling, even tho our case isn't a whole lot like the movie, still it seems to me there is a similarity here and there. Especially the idea of falling in love with a person thru letters. I've fallen in love with you in such a way, not to mention the fact that I fell in love with your picture long ago, before you'd realize. But you know, this movie, "Love Letters" holds a lot of food for thought. I've thought ofyou constantly since the show was over. It made me think of the suffering, mentally tid f' physically that you've had to go thru, since you know when ... it made me think of a lot of little things that must have tortured you, that I never thought about before and when I think of all these things, I can't help but admire you for your braveness and courage and stamina, and self-control I guess that's part of why I love you so ... the remaining reasons why I love y'/J so are hard to explain... Like you say, I believe there is something stronger than either of us, pulling us together, closer and closer. I thought once I knew the theory oflove, but this love we have fQr each other is real love. It's strong and deep and beautiful -- it's everything life is --- gay, romantic, tender, and in me, it seems to be inrooted -- part of my very soul I never want it to change, Janie, ever. I want it to continue endlessly, into eternity. Please help it be this way always. Pulling together, for each other, we can't lose and we have all the happiness andgoodness in the world to gain.....I can see nothing but happiness ahead for us, Janie. I love you much, Janie you won't realize how much until I can show you without words. I can hardly wait until that moment when I can press your lips to mine, over and over then you'llknow. Don't you forget Tm to be the first young man to caress those famous lips ofyours! Please! It's been 16 months since Tve kissed a girl and the first time you kiss me I'l/go up higher than a kiter All my love, Your Stan. 3-10-46 ... ·My Darling ....I received 3 wonderful letter from you and twelve beautifulpictures and they make me love you and want you so! You're really gorgeous in the grass skirt and luscious too! Can I have you for Christmas? Please!!! I love them all and Tm going to tack them up all around my sack so you can surround me. What a wonderful idea! Thaakyou so much, Honey. So, /...ikmagazine has the neg of the contest winner photo ofyou? �,... Be sure to let me know, Darling, if and when it appears in the magazine. I can hardly wait to see it!... Gotta go. All my love, Your StanN 3-12-46 ....Hey, Shorty! I love you. Today I received another sweet letter from you! I Ike the two pictures of the flowers ve", much, Honey. You are a fine photographer! (Valentine pictures of the flowers)... "About love Letters'.... it was sort of an education to me too, in a way: I know how you feel about not having anyone around that understands how you feel sometimes. .... You asked what particular things made me 'think' ... well, that picture even tho it was just a movie makes me sure now that it's possible to fall deeply in love thru letters. Of course, I fell in love with your picture, primarily. I remember the large coloredpicture you sent Jack, distinctly, because even then, when I first saw you, there was something about you that struck me mysteriously. .... I love you, Janie. All my love, Your Stan H --- +++++ 5-15-46 My Darling, Hello, Janie. Geez, I could hardly wait to write you tonight ... I love you so much. I received a ver, nice letter from you today which completed my day: Everything has progressedperfectly for me today! In the first place Tm leaving this damn camp Monday, the 20th. I was informed officially this afternoon. Thre is no 'probably: 'if' or 'maybe' about this! This is it and rve waited for a long time for this, and it's finally .taking shape. It all means rll be with you soon, and that means everything to me, Darling. Tm so happy I could bust! The only thing that matters to me is we'll be together soon now. Oh, Honey, Tm so anxious to hold you in my arms and tell you how much I love you. Finallyall our dreams are slowly coming true. It has been a long time, Janie but eve", second of it was well worth waiting, 'cuz I have sau. to come home to! Ive thought about you all day, Darling... and it was so pleasant. We have so much to be thankful for, I think ... I know, rm ve", lucky that I have a swellgirl like you to be coming back to. Not eve",guy has it that way. You make me terribly happy --- just think if you can make me feel this way jUst thru letters, why, rll probably bust out cryin' with joy when Fm with you. Yes Darling Tm sure this is really love. I seem to miss you and want you so ... I think ofyou constantly. Yes, Janie, this is real AII my love, Your StanN • •. Marthajane Kirby' 8468 MacArthur Rd. Saranac, MI 48881 ."l �3-18-46 .... Hi Hon, this is the third time I've written you today but I received the tinted picture and the other two at this evening's moil call, so I hod to write and tell you how much I liked them, especially the tinted one, and also that I hod received them. Darling, that tinted one is out of this world!I love it! I think you performed a beautiful bit of tinting on it. It's wonderful and Tm going to get a real nice frame to put it in, one of those with silver around the edge you'lllike being surrounded by silver I know! I also liked the party pictures everyone looked like they were having such fun. And you, you must have hod a -laughing jog" on! In both snaps you were beaming just as bright as could be! Ha! You must be a lot of fun and I can hardly wait to see you. Do you laugh terribly easy? I donit mean are you silly, but more, a good sense ofhumor? Geez. I can't get over that tinted picture! I sure like it. Thanks so much for sendingit. I'llgive you a 'special kiss' for sending it; a little thing I cooked up myself! I'm sure you'lllike it ... very original!! Every time I look at that picture, I think ahead to the time when we'llbe together, and I keep thinking, -Ifshe looks up at me, like in the picture, I'll kiss her every time 'cuz she's so beautiful" Plan to do that willyou Honey?... I found out today that when I get out of this lash-up, I'll rate four full years of college. I wont to toke the full four years ifI can keep mygrades up. Which brings up a problem cOl1&erning us which I want to talk with you about at some later dote, if we click together. Tm sure you understand. Well, my Darling, I only have 2 stomps with me and it'll toke both of those and maybe more to moil this, so Tl! be ctosin'.... Hope I see you soon, Honey, be good and love me lots. Bye .... Your Stan" �•• V 5-19-46 ..... My Darling Janie ... Well, Honey, time isgrowing short and by this time next week I should have my feet on Californiasoil. I'll be thrilled then, but not half as much as I willbe when I kiss you at the station. Til be walking on clouds after yourgreen eyes have cast their spell on me! Mmmm, just to write about it tortures me to the soul, and I'm not kidding either! .....Darling, I want to see you so badly it'sgetting me down. All I seem to be capable of is thinking of you all day long. I see your face before me, I see you smiling and laughing. I dream all kinds of dreams about us, the fun we'llhave and the love we'llshare. We just can't lose, Honey 'cause there seems to be a strong bondbetween us. We think the same, react the same. We see things thru the same eyes. I needyou terribly Janie ...having you would complete all I ever hoped for. I love you so much that it almost worries me. I never dreamed I could want someone so badly, that I've never actually met. Well, honey, soon we'llbe together, thank God. Remember 'til then I'm Your Stan ... I love you, I needyou, I want to hold you in my arms. All my love, Your StanN From Janie: This completes a lot of letters from S1'on, and these were my most precious. During the Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter of 1945 Stan wrote me almost daily and since that means more than 100 more, I can't type them all. This gives the reader a positive image of our love, which endured for more than 57 years. The Hand of God ... all those long long months of waiting for each other. ++++++ • There is one remaining sad fact from Jack. His Mother had saved all the letters I wrote to him (and I have no idea why she did this) and gave them to my Father, and ended up with us later on. (Stan and I after we were married.) One letter I wrote him before he went into combat was a sorta pep-talk, assuring him that I loved him and his Mom and Sister loved him too and we would be praying every day for his safety. This letter, all beat up, stained, bent, almost illegible writing of mine on the envelope, was found in his helmet when he died. I wish I had never seen it. He was only 18 when he gave his life for his country. "Semper Fi, NJack Mj Mar~hajane • Kirby' 8468 MacArthur Rd Saranac, MI 48881 . �II Mr. Stanley Kirby 8468 Macarthur Rd. Saranac, MI 48881-9517 MILITARY STATS 2-16-46..... "The Marine Corps point drop" .....Dearest Janie: I'm so exhausted I can hardly keep my eyes open.... "undoubtedly you read about the recent Marine Corps point drop, to 42! Damn decent of them. At such a rate I'll never get back. It all puts me in a nasty mood ---it just blasts hell out of my hopes of being home in May. No telling now, just exactly when I'll be back. Yes, you're right, it is very disappointing. Oh well, rough! As it is all over." "Well honey, can't think of anything t-write about, Darling, even if! were in the mood, so I'll secure this. I still love you..will always be ... Your Stan" 2-21-46 "Hi Rosebud: Yes, the machine 1 used was a code machine usedfor copying code by radio. 1 will probably write you on it occasionally as sometimes 1 don't have stationery down here. Yes, I know how you feel about the Marine demobilization and you're right, I can't stand it, but I can't do a damn thing about it, Honey. I doubt if that 'protest' they put up here willeverget to Truman. Three. of the fellas's that planned it were 'busted' and put in the brig. Busted from sergeants to privates -- quite a drop. A guy doe~'t dare open his mouth about it (the discharge program) anymore -- and still they insist we're living in a democracy. It's really quite funny. (And Tm glad I'm not involved in any way) The sooner I'm out of this lash-up the happier Til be, in more than one way At least Til be able to call my life my own again. Til close here Darling and write later tonite from work With all my love, Your Stan" ++++++ -Godand Faith " . 6-23-45 .... Darling: Got two swell letters from you. Yes, I have the larger pictures ofyou that you sent recently. Tm admiring them right now ... I wouldn't trade you for anyone! I do know what you mean about faith and God, Darling, and it's a wonderful thing to have faith in God, but sometimes fate doesn't worry about God . You'drealize more clearly what I mean ifyou ever sawguys killed, like I have, and had faith in God, and never harmed another person physically or mentally in their life and where are they now? �"If anything ever happened to me I'd want you to love and be loved by someone, Td want some person as wonderful as you to realize jUst how wonderful you are. Janie, life is what a person makes of it, and no matter how tough the road may be with deaths and disappointments, always strive to make the grade. I guess I'm writing all this because I1JI1L in love with you and I know it sounds mixed up but please try to understand me. Maybe r m different but it's just the way I am.... Please think over what rve written and tell me what you think~ all over again? Goodnite Honey and take care of you. All my love, Stan" 7-22-45 .... "Darling Janie: I have a few minutes before going to work so I'll write a few lines. Did you read about the Navy discharge plan in the paper? It's really quite a system. Basically it's for 'thinning out' the older men, but that's OK, but those 'older men'probably never saw combat, and what about these guys that have seen four or five battles. and have been over here for 16 to 25 months, they can't raise enough points to prick a balloonl.... Damn/ I wish this #%$% war was over so I couldgo back and live a civilized life~ like any normal human being deserves Enough of this!" Say, did you everget that Fourth Divisionpatch sewn on your headscarf? I'm anxious to see it on you .... soon! Take realgorJdcare ofyou andbe careful of the sailors and soldiers! Write soon Honey." All my love, Your Stan" A ++++++ 'VJDAYFOR THEMARINES I!! 8-15-45 ....Hi there Honey. You should feel fine and happy cause the war is over and I know you do. rm really happy, I guess you know. What a day yesterday was. I was just coming in from liberty when the news broke and it was raining like mad. My morale was low, having to walk in the rain with my clean khaki on but when I heard the good news I didn't care if it was raining pies! I listened to some broadcasts from the States from some of the cities and I guess you people really raised hell back there/ Well, rll be home sooner than I expected. Which won't be next week or next month Tm sore, but at least I don't have to worry aboutgetting knocked offanymore. I want so much to be with you, Darling~ and to love you. I wish I couldhave been with you yesterday or vice-versa, as long as we were together. We could have celebrated together and torn K.c. apart! �. Mr. Stanley Kirby ..... 8468 Macarthur Rd. .:.. Saranac, M' .....'-9517 • 8-15-45 ... continued.... Well, Tm going to church ... believe it or not! I figure I have plenty to be thankful for, Darling. Were havinga parade here today --- one battalion ofMarines participating. They are going to present the 'Battle Streamers' to the Division and units therein will fly their respective colors. It willprobably be quite an affair. I suppose you will.have a big parade there too. (In KC it was a HUGEparade on August 14, the VJ day in the States, but with the Marines their celebration was the date of this letter.) JK I wish I couldsee the smile on your face now. Smile for me!! Thanks! Janie, go ahead and open that little package I sent you and don't wait for your birthday after all! Just think of me and how much I love you. All my love, Your Stan (In a book about the Fourth Division in WW2, by Carl W. Proehl,re- printed by Nashville Press, (1988) this celebration is mentioned on page 121.) --JK It 9i-45 ... -My Darling: Well, today is V-J Day for me and the rest of the Fourth. However there's not much to say about it except we have the whole day "off" to do what we want. I slept 'til noon, had chow and slept again this afternoon! This morning I met up with a guy from.~nsas City and he told me all about the big city! He said he didn't know you, but wished he did! I was surprised, given your popularity with your modeling career! I'm glad he didn't know you ...you are mine, remember? Ha. All my love, Your Stan" ******* This ends my letters from Stan ... those I could share anyway. ************** "Some people work an entire life and wonder if they made a difference in the world.!" MARINES DON'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM! SemperFi Love forever, Stan ... Your Janie . •• Mart~ajane Kirby' 8468 MacArthur Rd. Saranac, MI 48881 , �-----r--­ ( M. Farrington 1483 East 76th Karis s s' City, Mo. VIA AIR MAIL �,r t~ '~ . ~ ) ~~t.•~.~.' ~~.i :ktt~. t l ~ 1.r o ~'"<, ~ t . . ~. j~t t " f ~..:c . ~ ,~ t ~ b ~ . .... ·.·'.. . i . "* ,~ 0""_ .~~ ~,~ ~ ~ r . t ~" \-L"{ '~ r_~' ~ ~ t ~ f' r'" &~l.~~,,~;':;" ~l y,~,.,,+ ,,'~;iQ~ / ����, ... 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" , ~ ' ' ;J , .•. , • , 1:: �~ ~ I • , J '. -. o ;".A..~ V ~-G'<- ~. ~~~~ ./ I' .....,.?--L-~. ~ ~ / .4 --e ~tZ.- ~~~ .... ­ ��'.r p My Darling Martlla: If I don't come backfrom my tour ofduty I wam you to marry someone who will love you as much as I do; who will take care ofyou like I would; would laugh wltb you like I have; will comfort you like I would; would enjoy life wlth' you /ike I wanted to •.•.....•.... Please remember me always ......I love youl Jack Wesley Layton June 17, 1944 (From my Diary. June 17. 1944 Martbajane Farrington (1-1r.;" ( f~ t Co 2{) ~'f ~ fl PS I 11 - r: w, �"CHRISTMAS, G.I., 1945" TIS' A MONTH BEFORE CHRISTMAS AND ALL THROUGH· THE SERVICE NOT A DAMN MAN IS MOVING AND WE'RE ALL GETTING NERVOUS GREAT PLANS AND NEW SYSTEMS ARE DEVISED EVERY DAY RELEASING THREE MEN: MAKING TWO MILLION STAY. FOR GEORGIE THE "MARSHALL" WITH HIS NAUTICAL MATE ARE DEFENDING "PEARL HARBOR" JUST FOUR YEARS TOO LATE OUR HEADQUARTERS HERE IS NO LONGER LONELY FOR THE "PINEAPPLE PENTAGON" HAS STANDING ROOM ONLY. MACARTHUR THE MIGHTY GREW PURPLE WITH WRATH SCREAMED HE, GENERAL, THEY'RE MOVING TOO FAST THERE MUST BE SOME WAY TO MAKE MOST OF THEM STAY SO GOD WITH FIVE STARS TOOK OUR SHIPPING AWAY. FOR A WHILE PUBLIC PROTESTS WERE GETTING TOO LOUD SO THE POWERS TOOK ACTION TO QUIET THE CROWD SAID A GENERAL (THEN A COLONEL) ,WHY, WHAT COULD BE FINER THAN TO START JUST A TINY REBELLION IN CHINA. OF COURSE THEY HAVE REASONS TO KEEP US ALL HERE FOR AS LONG AS WE STAY THEY WON'T HAVE TO FEAR THAT THEY'LL LOSE ONE OR TWO OF THEIR SO PRECIOUS STARS OR THEIR EAGLES AND OAK LEAVES REVERT TO GOLD BARS. NOW JOE DOAKES, THE WELDER, IS FILLED WITH DELIGHT FOR JOE'S TWENTY-SIX AND "TOO OLD TO FIGHT" THUS TO DRAfT THIS OLD MAN WOULD BE QUITE A CRIME SO HE MARCHES ALL DAY IN A LONG PICKET LINE. OUR TONY PASOOTA HAS JUMPED ON A PLANE (TONY PLAYS FOOTBALL AND HAS A BIG NAME) BUT POOR BROWN, THE PRIVATE, WILL JUST HAVE TO WAIT HE'S ONLY A FATHER AND CAN'T DRAW A GATE. • Mr. Stanley Kirby . -. 8468 MacArthur Rd. ... Saranac, MI 48881-9517 �FOR ALL GOOD LITTLE OFFICERS WHO POLISH THEIR BARS SANTA'S NOT WEARING WHISKERS, BUT THREE SILVER STARS, THE RECRUITS ARE SCREAMING LET US GO AND FIGHT AND TO ALL WHO WILL LISTEN, I SAY BARNUM WAS RIGHT. USMC Base, Oahu, Hawaii PFC Stanley D. Kirby Base Comm, Signal Bn FMF PAC c/o FPO San Francisco, California December 24, 1945 IJ f .. Mr. Stanley Kirby 8468 MacArthur Rd. . Saranac, MI 48881-9517 �)---/f-~ d- ~/ ~~p-O~~ ~.,£/r·~·/ ~ ~ ~ ~ . ~~~~~~~r ~.~~~~q -: ~~~~~.~~~ ~r~~~~~'/ ~~y~~~~ ~~~.~/;:t3~~~ / ~ ~ ocf}~r' ~J7~ ~~~~~/~~~. ~~~~.c:LJ~s. ~ tY '7~~. y~~~.L~ ~~~./~57~~ ~~~~~~/ ~ r" ~~~a-L~ /~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~J?~/ ~ .s«: ~ . -91/ N~~~~~~// ~/~~~r~/ ~~~ ~ /7~~~ ." (~~ ~~-~7a:: / ,s/.') �Marthaj ane (nee Farrington) Kirby October 1945 Winner, second place: $500 for "Loveliest Lips in the Land " Ju dge: Gary Cooper, Actor Contest by Clara Har r is Cosmetics ��Mr. Stanley Kirby 8468 Macarthur Rd. Saranac Ml 48881-9517 .~ Service Rerileritbrances - World War II Stanley D. Kirby Private First Class I Co;e. p()~ IIL- 11C6 Headquarters Company 3rd BattalioQ,~24th Marines Fourth Marine Division (United States Marine Corps Reserve) . The War had already been going for two or three years when the Marines and Stanley got hooked up. Both of my older brothers were in the Air Force and I entertained the thought of also being a "fly-boy"! Things were not to be that way however, as I was turned down by both the Army Air Corps and the Naval Air Service. Strangely enough, for conflicting reasons: I passed the Army mental test (Detroit) and flunked the "physical" as the person said I needed two or three teeth filled. I immediately went to the Navy Air Corps headquarters and applied - there I was told I passed the physical but flunked the mental test. So, in disappointment, I said to me, "ta hell with you guys, I'll go home and wait to be drafted." That was in the fall of 1943 (I believe). In April of 1944 I received my call to duty and asked to serve in the Navy. They said "fine" and put me in a room with some others. Shortly a guy came and asked us all to stand, With a very deliberate finger he pointed to a few guys, including me, and stated, "okay, you guys are going into the Marines". That's how the whole thing started. We left immediately for San Diego, California (Marine Base) and I never even made it back to Lansing. So I called home and told "Mom" - she was concerned but not shaken. I can't recall, but I'm sure I was anxious and apprehensive about the new adventure but then so were the other guys - so I had company. The Marine base in San Diego was vast, with a tremendous parade and training area - (asphalt) and scads of barracks and little buildings. As I recall the arrival was shortly after lunch and the first thing we did was to shed the "civies" and don the Marine garb, including those lovely field shoes which were stiff as a board when new. About this time we were getting accustomed to being ordered around and it was somewhat annoying, but it would have been more annoying if orders weren't followed. o The real initiation into "Marine ways" (especially recruits) came at dinner time­ from here on in to be known as "Chow" time. With the issued mess kit firmly in hand we were standing in line when a less than gorgeous Sergeant came dashing around yelling: ­ "You stupid people keep yourself in line for the Chow hall ..." "You guys are no-bodys and don't forget it - we are going to make 1 �Service Remembrances - World War IT somebody out of you if you're gutsy enuf..." "You are nothing, zilch, no body, but we will make something of you..: etc., etc..." This was difficult to swallow but since there were 50 or 60 other guys in the same boat it was livable. Our frame of mine ("attitude") was being structured and somehow I felt it would all work out O.K. "Boot" training was 90 days and it was a pre-determined combination of physical exercise and mental re-building. Our battalion was invited to march in the 4th of July parade in Los Angeles. This was one ofthe proudest times of my life. Our parade uniform was summer khakis, dress shirt, tie, leggings, cartridge belt (with canteen and sulfa packet) and overseas cap, instead of helmet. Our platoon was really snappy and heels were hitting the pavement with extreme precision. People were six to eight deep on the sidewalks and they were clapping, yelling and screaming beautiful things. At that moment I felt a bonding with the populous that was indescribable. What a super experience. The "boot-camp" experience was a real neat thing. Yes, lots of physical exercise, mental exercise and sore muscles. But, in looking back I guess I enjoyed it in a way. I accept the fact now that I am a "team player" - with great satisfaction in being part of a group where all are reaching for the same goals. The bonding and camaraderie were extremely enjoyable and character building. Everything-was structured and precisely scheduled. up @ 5:45, breakfast ("chow") at 6"15, calisthenics @ 8:00, 7 a.m. to 8 a.m. was shave, shower, clean up time - check gear and clean rifle. Calisthenics were generally 45 minutes to one hour. The first few weeks always had "close-order drill" in the schedule, 40-50 men in three columns learning to march as one. And we did. Boot camp was basically 90 days and I know that after the first few weeks I was beginning to feel super - mentally and physically - vibrant, alive, responsive. The aim of the U.S.M.C. One ofthe guys in our platoon was a German-Polish person from New Jersey. He turned 36 years old shortly after being in the Marines. At this stage of the war in 1945 they were still drafting men up to the age of 36, (but not over 36). He came to me one day and said, "I've told these people (superiors) that my shoes don't fit but they won't do anything about it." Three or four days later he approached me again, removed his socks and said, "look at my feet, I can't take it anymore!" Both of his feet were coveted with blood from open blisters. I told him to get down to Sick Bay (field hospital) and get them treated. He did and I never saw him again. I'm sure they mustered him out and sent him home. () In July of 1944 our outfit boarded ship for Hawaii. Having never been on the ocean before there was some trepidation, but once underway I realized it was kinda neat. Having spent many hours on boats in inland lakes, and liking the water, I adjusted well to ocean movement. Many cases of "sea-sickness" cropped up which the Naval Corpsmen 2 .. �Service Remembrances - World War IT tended to effectively. I never got sick, but rather enjoyed the ships movements, (that is until some real rough seas, which I'll get to later.) As we neared Pearl Harbor, the sunshine and balmy breeze made one feel somewhat like they were on vacation. Nearing the isle of Oahu porpoises were threading in and out of the water about 400 or 500 feet from the ship - going along in parallel- as if to welcome us to the islands. At the Marine Base in Pearl Harbor we were further organized into our combat units and shortly thereafter boarded ship again for the island of Maui for advanced training. The bunk areas where we slept contained what we shall call "racks" - they were about 24" wide and about 6 1/2 feet long and were stacked three to four high. Steel piping, rounded at comers, with canvas stretched in middle. Not very comfortable and the space between you and the guy above or below was only about 30". The aisles were narrow and you can imagine how easily the air got stale with 100 or two men in the same compartment. \~) Since we had no lockers or anyplace we could safely stow our gear, we had to keep our limited possessions in our field pack which we secured to the end of our assigned "rack". Once, while I went to take a shower, I left my watch lying on the rack and upon returning found it stolen. However, several days later I saw it on the wrist of another Marine. I located the Officer of the Day and led him to the person and we retrieved the watch as I had positive identification. I had saved the sales slip. " " On a ship at sea is a profound experience. One seems to be surrounded with a brightness and freshness that's really impressive. Boredom, - yes there was boredom but not too much as we spent many days and hours in "class". We studied maps ofIwo lima and were advised of the terrain and important topographical features which would be encountered. We passed the island (in the middle of the Pacific) where one of the early A-Bombs was detonated - I believe it was BIKINI - and there was nothing left there but a large sand bar. We stopped at Midway for awhile and then went on to Guam. The purpose at Guam was to re-fuel for the jaunt to Iwo. It was at Guam at twilight where I witnessed a most (one-of-a-kind) unusual happening. Our ship was anchored a short distance off the island of Guam and the nearest ship to us was a submarine. It was about 200 feet off the port (left) rear of our troopship and was still in the water as we were. Since our ship was pointed mostly away from the island, we who wanted to study the submarine, were gathered at the rear of our ship along the raiL (]'"" .. ' \0.,." One of the guys said, "Hey, look!" and 10 and behold another ship was on a course to go straight behind us and heading right for the submarine. It was about 600 feet away and moving very slow - but, it kept right on coming. It was only moving about 2 or 3 3 �Service Remembrances - World War IT mph. when it passed the rear of our ship and it was quite clear there was going to be a collision. About this time the sailors aboard the sub began pouring out of the hatch and anxiously watching the approaching ship. It was obvious to them the ship was going to strike the sub so the sailors all lined up on the opposite side of the sub so when the collision arrived they would use the "bump" of the errant ship to propel them in the air and away from the sub. Well, it struck and the crewmen sort of flew through the air, landed in the wet and swam swiftly clear of the situation. By the time the ship struck the sub it was barely moving and it eased up over the top of the sub about 20 feet. When all the necessary people got their brains together they put the ship in reverse and several minutes later backed off the sub. There was no apparent serious damage except perhaps to someone's ego. All sailors returned and we learned there were no injuries. While enroute from Midway Island to Guam, aboard ship I was chosen (ordered) to do guard duty in one of the storage "holds" which were crammed with war equipment. The location I drew was the "3rd hold" - three levels below the normal "top-side" deck. You had to go down 3 narrow steep metal stairs in order to get there. Since we were on a specific battle mission "war" regulations were the order of the day - therefore I was required to wear steel helmet and carry carbine and ammunition (on cartridge belt). I was escorted to my post by the officer of the day who happened to be a fresh exponent of Marine Officers' Training. He was an impressive physical specimen. And why not --- he was fresh from playing regular Guard on U.S.C. football team! Upon being settled at my guard duty post I was adtIisedof my responsibilities by the O.D. and he disappeared up the stairway and through the hold. (no doors!). As I looked around there were heavily leafed magazines and news-papers. So, I figured that you look at the printed material while keeping your eyes and ears open. I took off my helmet and leaned my carbine up against a Jeep. In the middle of a ReadersDigest a voice from above rang out - "Attention! I" It was the O.D. (Officer ofthe Day) and the Company Sergeant. I straightened up but didn't have time to get myself in order. The O.D. said "Private Kirby, you are in gross violation ofthe Guard Duty regulations. You are out of uniform and are not in command of your post." To which I said, "Well, it looks like everyone who had guard duty here did the same thing." This didn't impress him. I was ordered to put my helmet on and shoulder my carbine. I was advised I would be replaced very shortly. Upon replacement I was lead to the Brig (jail cell). At this point I realized that all of this was not a joke or fun and games! The O.D. said upon leaving, "You will stand in front of the Commanding Officer aboard ship tomorrow to be sentenced." About this time I fully realized the error of my ways. C) The "Commanding Officer" was a Major General and the ceremony was disgustinglyshort. I was the recipient of a "Field Court Martial" and sentenced to 10 days bread and water. I could only leave the cell with an armed escort, so going to the 4 �... ~ Service Remembrances - World War II restroom I always had company. I lost ten pounds and really learned how good bread could taste. My ration three times daily: 1 glass of water and two slices of bread. Surprisingly how good bread can taste after a day or two! Fortunately, "Field Court Martials" are never put in your military records. However, I assure you the above is true. Change of pace story. After "boot-leave" and back in California - we were to go on a long hike with full field pack and battle apparel. This meant a back pack (fully stuffed with clean clothes) blanket, rifle, and poncho that weighed a good 60 pounds. The "hike" was on asphalt pavement. We were never told how far we were going - and, of course, the officers and higher NCO's rode in jeeps - After 8 miles we were all dismissed from loose formation and were allowed to rest. Two or three poor souls couldn't hack it and had to be put in following 6 x 6 trucks. After the "rest" we walked another 11 miles! (How does that grab ya!) I guess you'd have to say we were in excellent physical condition. We left Guam the following day (after "Sub" fiasco) and headed for Iwo Jima. We arrived at Iwo at night and upon getting on deck the next morning I beheld the astonishing sight of dozens of ships. There were troopships, supply ships, hospital ships, Destroyers, Cruisers, Battleships to name what I can remembe1gMost likely there were many other types also. This was astounding - amazing to a'" year old kid. This was at sunrise and firepower of the ships was bombarding the island fiercely along with light bombers and P51 Mustang fighters. What a fantastic and startling sight. Landing boats were already circling and organizing for the first wave to attack the beaches. Biggest display of fireworks I ever saw! Fire, Smoke, noise and..ilctivity. Anxiety - yes - but we were extremely well prepared mentally. There was ajob to do. Fortunately our unit wasn't scheduled to load (and go ashore) until 3 p.m. in the afternoon. When the time arrived we had to climb down a rope-mesh ladder and jump into a Landing Craft Infantry, (LCI). This was "touch and go" as the LCI was bouncing up and down due to windy conditions. It would drop away and move 2-3 feet from troopship and then rise abruptly 2-3 feet and bang against the side of the ship. It would have been easy if all we were clad in were bathing suits but with 60 lb. field pack, heavy cartridge belt and 91b. rifle it was testy. While heading for the island the silence in the LCI was head-banging. Concerned faces prevailed and as we were nearing the beach the noise was something else. Explosive sounds of all dimensions and magnitude. As the "gate" of the LCI dropped down at the beach and we bounded out we immediately noted the vast array of stalled and damaged equipment - mainly due to the volcanic sand which was like wading through 12" of marbles. Navy medics were busy tending to the wounded and here and there were lifeless Marines. Unbelievable scenes. : ~-)~."" \. ..•.. In two or three hours we were able to advance about 100 yards. The first waves of infantry were already a few hundred yards inland. Mortar fire was the order of the day 5 �I .. Service Remembrances - World War II and these explosions were all around. I must admit I was plenty scared and did some serious reading of the 23rd Psalm while being pinned down by mortar fire. It was about this time something banged against my steel helmet and bounced a few feet away - it was an empty 50 mm brass machine gun shell from the P-51's which were straffing overhead. I learned later that one of the P-51 's was piloted by a high school friend of mine. I still have the shell casing among my mementos. The heavy mortar fire continued all night long. Although we (one Sergeant, one Corporal and myself) were taking shelter in a bomb crater about 20 feet wide, we were still subject to harm in case of a direct hit. Extremely heavy mortar fire started about 10 p.m. and I got to shaking so bad the Sergeant said "It's okay kid, you're gonna be fine. " When the mortar fire died down so did my shakes. The fear tends to build up because you're in a helpless position. The next morning, - after about 2 hours sleep - I raised up and noticed a piece of shrapnel about 1" x 3" had hit the stock of my rifle and caused a gouge about 1/4" deep by 2" long. This occurred about 8" from my head. You see, I was sleeping with my rifle under my head as I lay face down in the sand. The second day we moved to a safer shell crater and it was this place of refuge where a partial bomb casing about 4" wide and 15" long lay near me no more than 2 feet away when I awoke on the 3rd day. Again I thanked the "man upstairs." -, Before I forget I want to mention an incident that happened while on route to Iwo. One bright afternoon the sailors on board decided to have some target practice. They threw overboard an empty 60 gallon oil drum and let it get about 100 yards away. Then they opened fire on it with 20mm "pom-poms". They must have used 50-75 rounds and still couldn't sink it. A Marine asked permission to fire at it. Permission was granted and in two shots he sank it. (J-"\ ~ Back to the conflict. Between the 3rd and 10th day we moved several times. The mortar fire had diminished and only rifle and machine gun fire could be heard (nearby). The forward ground forces were squeezing the enemy back successfully. At night it was necessary to form a perimeter security ring. One night, - on my 4 hour shift - I heard what sounded like a cat meowing. It would be repeated and then it sounded like another cat somewhere else nearby. I could not talk or yell at my comrades so I threw a stone at my Sergeant to wake him. I whispered carefully what I had heard. Without a word he slipped away and I continued my "watch". A few minutes later several other Marines (from somewhere!) slowly edged themselves into position nearby, facing the direction of the "meows." In the early hour of day light the following morning, the infantry men who so carefully joined me crawled carefully forward and all of a sudden all hell broke loose with grenades, machine gun and rifle fire. When the noise had ceased I crawled out of my security trench and soon saw what the commotion was all about. About 25-30 yards in front of me was a bomb crater full of dead Japs (about seven). A grizzly site - some ~ 6 Gt<.tSL f �Service Remembrances - World War II ~, ) with sides offace missing, shoulders blown off, etc. A real bloody mess. It was then I learned that these particular Japanese were infiltrators and used the cat sounds to keep track of each other as they moved through our lines. Another night while on security duty my job was to guard an area in front of me that was essentially a corridor formed by rock walls on both sides about 12 - 20' feet high. I heard footsteps which seemed to be 75-100' feet away. Since no friendly forces were to be in this "corridor" I shouted "halt, and give me the password". There was a shuflling of feet and then the sounds of running. I could just barely see the outline of the infiltrator and fired a short burst from my carbine. When I asked for the password two other Marines came up beside me and they also fired. There were no further footsteps. The rifles the Jap had is the one I now have on the wall at home. It was retrieved by the two Marines who supported me when they secured the body at daybreak. Fortunately, it is not known whose bullets brought the infiltrator down. Throughout these first few days I observed war sites one never forgets: bloated Japanese bodies, dismembered bodies and the stench was almost unbearable. Another unnerving site was the day G-2 Marines ("Intelligence" squad) were bringing a prisoner into the command post area and his dungarees were ripped clear up to his crotch - out of his left upper thigh protruded a fractured bone. He was in shock but still he was hopping along on one leg. Late in the campaign the Sergeant yelled at me one day saying "hey, Kirby you wanna see the flag go up?" He handed me his binoculajs and pointed to Mount Suribachi. Sure enough, there were five or six Marines pushing up a pole upon which was the Stars and Stripes. This scene of course became the famous photo of World War n. We were 1 or 2 miles from the mountain but got a real good view. The United States needed Iwo Jima and it's two air-strips because ifheavy bombers left their base to bomb the island of Japan it was possible they may run short of gas upon trying to return. I was lucky enough to see the first B-29 land on the captured air-strip - one landing gear inoperative and it skidded to a stop at the end of runway. Myself and several "buddies" cheered - realizing and underlining the value of what the Marines had done. In this operation I was a "runner". Responsible to run messages between command posts because to use radio or telephone would be dangerous if the information fell into enemy hands. I was part of a team of 4 - Sergeant in charge, Radio Operator Corporal, another runner and myself. We worked close with the Battalion officers to articulate necessary communications. I was trained in three different methods of Code as well as semaphore flags. C) During the final stages of the battle I recall being asked to volunteer to help string telephone wire up at the front lines. My job would be to ride on the passenger side of a Jeep and hold a spool of telephone wire and let it string out while the driver charted the 7 �Service Remembrances - World War II course. This activity wasn't part of my "M.0." - I looked at the Sergeant and he said, "you don't have to do that". So, I didn't volunteer. If! would have I would not be writing these notes. The volunteer that did go was killed and the driver badly shot in the back. Another silent prayer was called for. An interesting part of the Marine communications agenda were the Navajo "Talkers". These Native Americans had a language foreign to the Japanese and were used to talk on the portable radios for the purpose of military messages - rather than use mechanical or written codes. Although I never had the chance to sit and talk with them (they conversed in English as well) they were a congenial group even though they chose to be by themselves. As the battle of Iwo drew to a close and the din of mortars and small weapons fire diminished we Marines gained more freedom to roam and relax - and it was great when it was finally and officially announced that the island was completely secured you could hear the applause and yelling all over the island. And then, as a complete surprise, within an hour or two, all Marines were treated to a celebration drink! Not very sophisticated, but a fifth of whiskey was given to every group of men - and I mean every group of four-five. (You never read that in the paper did you!!). C) The voyage ~ to Hawaii was more enjoyable although it was sad that many of our ranks were missing. Back at Pearl Harbor we were in limbo waiting for further orders or whatever. While at Pearl (Honolulu) a friend of mine decided he wanted a car, so he had "daddy" back home send him enough money to suy a 1931 Ford (Model A). We had lots of fun with it - but one night we were riding through mid-town Honolulu and were stopped by Police for not having any tail-lights. My friend Jim, who was driving, was going to get married in a week or so he quickly talked me out of my military ill card to hand to the Officer. How stupid I was. The Officer wrote the ticket up in my name, reported it to the Marine Base and I got two weeks restriction out of the deal and had to "sign-in" at the company office every two hours - Whoops! Finally we headed for California and home. As luck would have it when we reached the mouth of San Francisco Bay I was assigned to Guard duty at the very rear of the ship. It was windy that day and the ship was rolling and pitching. As I was rising up and down (like on a merry-go-round horse!) I was studying the lovely sight ofthe Bay bridge. How nice to be back. (~) Shortly after leaving by train to come home (I think maybe around Sante Fe) my jaw began to feel tender and I developed an abscessed tooth with high temperature in addition. It got so bad entering Nebraska that I lost consciousness. Some medics on board treated me temporarily and they put me off the train at Lincoln, Nebraska where I was picked up by Jeep and taken to the Air Base there. They put me in the Sick Bay (Hospital) for a few days, lowered the fever, filled me with antibiotics and eventually pulled the bad tooth. I was treated like some war hero (or something) and it was a wonder I didn't completely blowout my ego!! Whenever I went to the mess hall they 8 �· . Service Remembrances - World War n said, "Whattaya want? - we'll fix anything you want." I enjoyed lots of steak, eggs and pie! I will always be in debt 10 a first Lieutenant who, when I mustered out, said "do yourself a big favor and go on to college, you've got the G.!. Bill to help you." I did and will always be glad I did so. Other Memories' One time while in basic training someone in our barracks said they saw our drill Sergeant playing poker in the early evening. Somehow this information got to the higher ranks and the Drill Sgt. was severely chastised. (No poker playing was allowed in training area). And, "somehow" the Drill Sgt. found out it was someone in our barracks who squealed! For punishment our entire platoon had to scrub our barracks floor with toothbrushes! Oh yes, another time I was caught with sand in my bayonet scabbard. For punishment I was forced to "dry-shave" my face (~shaved before!) Upon completion they (Company Sgt. and Cpl.) splashed my face with shaving lotion. Wow! Bum, Bum, Burn. Have been shaving ever since. () Shortly after arriving on Maui (in Hawaii) a Navajo was assigned to our Message Center squad. It was said one day that he stole someone's jacket. The following day they found his body in a nearby ravine - a knife sunk deep in ~ back. Never heard any more about it. Another weird story - while in early boot camp at San Diego we had a guy from one of the Southern U. S. states get called to the Company Office. (This was an unusual thing, during training exercises). When I saw him later in the day packing his belongings I asked what "they" wanted him for - he said, "oh, I shot a nigger back home". I asked why. He said, "Well, he was walking across the grass in front of our house." I didn't press questions any further. /'''"\ \J Another scenario - the wife of my friend who got married had a girlfriend who I dated two or three times (always platonjc). One night when I was going to her house I had to take a bus and transfer to another bus - while waiting at the transfer point - which was a rather large area with a roof over it - I was standing somewhat apart from the others (mostly native Hawaiians and Orientals) when four Hawaii guys came up to me. I would guess they were in their 20's - two got in front of me and two behind me. One of those in front of me said, "Aren't you the Marine who we saw with an 'island' girl last week?" I said, "well, yes, I dropped her off here many days ago!" The speaker said further "We don't like you Marines taking out our Hawaiian girls." At this point he was about 12" from my nose and I said "She asked me to come to her house." Obviously the message was that I should refrain from dating this girl. I repeated my case that it was she who invited me and that seemed to satisfy them. The bus arrived and I pushed my way 9 �,, Service Remembrances - World War II through them and their dirty looks. I guess I took solace in the fact that it took four of them to one of me. Personally I wasn't anxious to tussle with four husky Hawaiian boys! Shortly after wwn started both of my older brothers joined the Air Force. Bob (the older) eventually became an aircraft mechanic and received notoriety for being the first Air Corps Mechanic to actually fly with the pilot to analyze the engine problems in a P-38. Next oldest brother Don became somewhat of a special envoy who's job it was to deliver specific and classified data to command posts in various parts of the war theaters. He traveled a great deal by plane. However, in his later tenure in the Air Force he somehow got on a burial detail and spent time in Northern Africa burying bodies. This duty left a severe emotional mark on him and he never really did get over it. o Once while aboard ship I was walking around the deck and I saw a guy pounding on something with a spoon. He was sitting on the steel deck and kind of hunched over ­ holding something in his left hand and pounding it with a spoon (G.!. Issue!) in his right hand. Quizzingly I asked what he was doing. He explained he was making a ring. How? He detailed that he started with a silver dollar. First step was to drill a 1/4" hole in the center - then placing the silver piece on a 1[4" piece of steel rod and striking the edge with a spoon until it flattened out (all the way around) strangely enough the hole in the center gets bigger (to ring size) and the outside gets wider and flatter. God only knows how many strokes it takes, but the result is a neat silver band about 1/4" wide. Finishing with fine steel wool and polishing on hard surface with cloth finished the ring beautifully. Did I make one? I sure did! Between Iwo and Hawaii I made one. (Got the silver dollar from Navy finance officer!). Where is it now! Probably 200 or 300 feet out in the Pacific Ocean off the northern shore of the island of Oahu. You see, a fellow Marine and I decided to go to the beach to soak up some sun. The surf was "up" - I would say 8' - 10' waves. We didn't dare go out in surfas the undertow was terribly wicked. But, the water was cold and shrunk my ring finger a little and the ring went off into the boiling undertow sand. I did take a deep breath and raked the bottom around my feet a little but a large wave knocked me over and it took eyea' bit of my leg strength to break loose of the undertow. But I managed to stand upright and I got the heck out of that surf One day at the camp on Oahu I received a message that my brother was at the airfield at Pearl Harbor - Hickam Field. I hadn't seen him for almost 2 years and was excited to hear from him. Bob was older than I by five years and a vastly different personality. He was a lover of night life, a womanizer and had heavy bouts with alcohol ­ and as handsome as any Tom Cruise or Robert Redford. (..-) After I finally got him on the phone (at his barracks) we met out on the concrete apron and I was elated to see him and I walked fast to shake a hand and give a hug. He could have cared less and was about as excited as a four year old in a room full of adults! Anyway, we went to his barracks and talked for while and that was the last time I saw of him for a couple more years. One always admires their older brothers and I was no 10 �. , '' I " Service Remembrances - World War Il exception. But, I was somewhat crushed by his lack of emotion, especially after not seeing him for such a long time. Speaking of being crushed how well I recall the day I arrived in Lansing after being gone for over two years. I had called ahead and advised of my arrival time by Greyhound bus. A whole car load of folks had come to the station but the only one to meet me as the bus was unloading was my mother. Maybe I expected too much - but on the other hand there was my Dad, my favorite Uncle and another Aunt and Uncle. I guess the problem lie in the fact they had all been drinking - apparently ~ heavily. I felt bad about this meeting. .' And then, to add a little more vinegar to the dressing, when we got home I discovered my other brother had worn out all my clothes and shoes while I was gone. What a bummer. "The other brother" was Mom's favorite so she probably waxed him into it. Stan began writing his remembrances 8/26/96. KIRBYWPS . - 11 (1­ �., ~ The following inserts are out ofsequence since I did not find them until recently ....February 2004. Stan had written them in longhandand put them with his USMCmemoirs originallypenned in 1996. These were written at that time too. They still contain many facts about his Marine Corps life .... Andare not hard to place with the other writings. Stan's wife: Marthajane (Janie) Kirby " �· ,... '/' "Will wonders ever ceaser Just recently, en e-mQiI friend of ours from PennsylvQniQ, Qfter reQding my nQme on the World War Two MemoriQI page (memoriQI being built in DC. expected to open yet this year 2003) wrote to me to express his QppreciQtion for the "MQrines" on Iwo JimQ who helped SQve his DQd. Qn Air Force tQiI gunner. 20th Air Force. nth Air Bomber Group. on Q B-29. Their crew WQS unQble to IQnd Qt TiniQn Qnd hQd to IQnd Qt Iwo JimQ due to flak dQmQge from bombing run on JQpan. "Due to the Marines. my fQther was given Q ehenee to live Qnd rQise Q fQmily Qnd I wish to hear from every Marine thQt fought there. My fQther hed difficulties putting into words whQt he SQW Qnd I guess did not WQnt to remember but WQS proud of the Itarines Qnd QlwQYs prQised them QS the best fighting men. Books are good for leQrning but the best educQtion is listening to the person who went through life Qnd lived it." '7­ (.'.\) ~-&I The miracle of this story: page. of my story talks Qbout the first B-29 landing on Iwo that I witnessedl THIS IS THE SAME -." PlANE my e-mail friend's fQther was 0", How (:Qn one ever explQin whQt hQppens in our lives? StQn Kirby ��--') pretty good protection against nearby hits of mortars and rifle fire. They were (trenches) of course temporary as we were on constant moves inland. Since Iwo was a volcanic island heat from underground disturbances came close to the surface and this provided warmth during the cool nights. Sometimes you could even see steam rising from the ground. INSERTBD """'\ ~~.J Many guys had to pull Bguard duty" (as they referred to it) and I was one of them. I had to do it twice between Hawaii and Iwo, and once on my way back. Somewhere (between Midway and Guam) I had to do some guard duty on the ship's deck, at the wee hours of the AM. My post was the very rear of the ship -- which was called the Bfan tail." .I did not have to stand still but could walk around under orders not to leave the area. After the last "bulkhead" (wall) of the super structure, the deck went uphill for about 30 feet. Not a severe rise but enough drain water. Naturally there was a railing -- solid steel from hand level to the deck about 4' high. It was a very windy night and the "seas" were rough! There was a bright moon, however, and as I went to the very end of the ship I witnessed how rough the sea can get. We were in swells that raised at1~ lowered the fan tail 20-30 feet!! Fantastic, I thought! And the movement did not make me ill. The last guard duty I pulled was when we got back to California on the way home. We were anchored just off San Francisco and my "post' was on the main deck. I never experienced such turbulent waters. The ship was pitching and yawing and just bouncing around wierdly. One of the sailors advised me, upon my asking, that the problem was caused by the juncture of two currents. Apparently one going one way and one the other. I can't substantiate that, but that is what I was told. INSERT BE" ;o~.-·· , . One thing the Marines stressed to recruits was orderliness and neatness. When we would have area inspections the foot locker, sea bag, rifle and other belongings had a specific place. They were to be in their place or you might endure doing push-ups (lots) or running around the parade ground until your legs ached. A favorite of the inspecting officer was flipping a coin over your made-up cot. It it didn't bound\, you were advised your blanket wasn't IL �:.~ tight enough. This was kind of a often. tongue-in~cheek thing as wasn't done too I don't know how it ever started but the Marines at that time (40's) were known for the "spit shine" on their dress shoes (oxfords.) This was achieved by applying coat after coat of polish in between which you spit on the area and rubbed the moisture in until it disappeared. Generally it would take six or seven coats of polish. Eventually one achieved a glass-like finish. The dress oxfords (Marine issue) were to be worn on leave and when you left camp for weekend pass. In those days (40's) you would never see a Marine whose shoes were unshined. It was part of the Marine dress code. INSERT-f" It was not unusual to have equipment inspection on a moment's notice. This . meant your rifle and bayonet had better be spotless and dustless. We would line up on the parade ground in parade formation. Neat and orderly and at "cttention." The inspecting Sergeant or Officer would very mechanically go from one recruit to another and select one at random for rifle and bayonet inspection. Unfortunately, he stopped at me and!rabbed my rifle. Nothing was found wrong and the rifle was handed back. He then asked for my bayonet (which I had cleaned immaculately.) He said: "There's dirt on the handle," see me in the Company office after inspection." Someone behind me had thrown a pinch of dirt on it I figured. Never found out who. My punishment was something they would never allow today: I had to -dry shave" in the presence of the Company Sergeant (they provided the razor.) At that age, and perhaps due to generic reasons, I didn't have much on my face except peach fuzz. It was scratchy and painful to say the least. To top if off, they splashed shaving lotion on my face and the -sting" was nasty. Why didn't I resist? Because in Marine Recruitment Training in those days you took your punishment and kept your mouth shut. If not, you might find yourself on -Iatri ne duty" for a couple of weeks. Self-control was part of the Marine training. INSERT-Gil One day aboard ship (on the way to Iwo) I noticed a fellow Marine hitting something on his shoe with a mess spoon. The scenario was this: in one hand (7 3 �,. "~ tight enough. This was kind of a often. tongue-in~cheek thing as wasn't done too I don't know how it ever started but the Marines at that time (40's) were known for the "spit shine"on their dress shoes (oxfords.) This was achieved by applying coat after coat of polish in between which you spit on the area and rubbed the moisture in until it disappeared. Generally it would take six or seven coats of polish. Eventually one achieved a glass-like finish. The dress oxfords (Marine issue) were to be worn on leave and when you left camp for weekend pass. In those days (40's) you would never see a Marine whose shoes were unshined. It was part of the Marine dress code. INSERT-F" ,,~) It was not unusual to have equipment inspection on a moment's notice. This ' meant your rifle and bayonet had better be spotless and dustless. We would line up on the parade ground in parade formation. Neat and orderly and at "cttention." The inspecting Sergeant or Officer would very mechanicallygo from one recruit to another and select one at random for rifle and bayonet inspection. Unfortunately, he stopped at me and~rabbed my rifle. Nothing was found wrong and the rifle was handed back. He then asked for my bayonet (which I had cleaned immaculately.) He said: "There's dirt on the handle," see me in the Company office after inspection." Someone behind me had thrown a pinch of dirt on it I figured. Never found out who. My punishment was something they would never allow today: I had to -dry shave" in the presence of the Company Sergeant (they provided the razor.) At that age, and perhaps due to generic reasons, I didn't have much on my face except peach fuzz. It was scratchy and painful to say the least. To top if off, they splashed shaving lotion on my face and the -sting" was nasty. Why didn't I resist:> Because in Marine Recruitment Training in those days you took your punishment and kept your mouth shut. If not, you might find yourself on "latrine duty" for a couple of weeks. Self-control was part of the Marine training. INSERT-G" () One day aboard ship (on the way to Iwo) I noticed a fellow Marine hitting something on his shoe with a mess spoon. The scenario was this: in one hand t7 3 �·, .~ I he had a round object -- about 1" in diameter and was holding it against the side of the heel of his shoe. This he was doing fast and repeatedly. I asked him what he was doing and he said he was making a ring~ This struck my curiosity and sought further info. He proceeded to tell me you take a silver dollar and drill a hole (about 1/4") in the center. Then, after holding it on the shaft of a screwdriver, you kept hitting the silver dollar until the edges knurl back and the hole in the center gets larger. Silver dollars.ace. malleable. After several hours you develop a band-like ring. Fine sandpaper and steel wool finish the job. A long and tedious undertaking? Yes!! But I decided I would try it. My ring turned out smooth and true after fine sandpapering and steel wool. I even rubbed it with wool to get a lovely shine! It actually ended up a hair larger than I desired but it stayed on my ring finger fairly well. I was proud of my efforts. However, I lost it! Some buddies and I went to the north shore of Oahu to experience the huge breaking waves (after returning from Iwo.) We donned our swim trunks and messed around in the breaki~ waves. The water was cold and I guess it shrunk my skin a little on my hand and the ring slipped off into the surf. Couldn't find it. Don't tell Uncle Sam I mutilated a U.S. coin) INSERT"H" In order to get to the troopship into the LeI's (Landing Craft Infantry) it was necessary to climb down these "nets," I'll call them. They were made of like 1" manila rope and the open spaces were about 10" square. With the LCI bouncing around and the troopship moving up and down it was difficult and tricky climbing down. Especially with rifle, field pack, ammo belt, full canteen and Sulpha pack. When you got to the bottom where the LCI was gyrating two or three buddies helped you get off. o One poor soul got a real banged-up leg when his foot slipped and his leg got jammed between the troopship and the top edge of the LCI (gunwhales.) On the spot analysis indicated a broken leg. I don't believe he went ashore. �INSERT-I" 'ht::VElLL£'\ . Recruit training usually was made up of a day that started at 5:45~reville) and ended at 10 PM C-Taps".) After reville the first responsibility was "roll call" (gotta make sure everybody is still therel) After roll call it was back to the tent (or barracks) to get mess gear and go to the mess hall for ·chow: Food was placed on your tray (compartmented) and after you were through you had to scrape off the leftovers into provided containers and be on your way back to the barracks. •Muster" (assembly) was generaIf around SAM as I recall and from there it was marching (close order drill, rifle training, bayonet training, field classes in combat readiness, and various military instruction.) Besides the M-l (Garand) training we had to also become familiar with the M-l carbine and Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR). The first several weeks of Recruit training were restricted primarily to the Recruit Depot. In my case it was San Diego Marine Base. After awhile we were moved north to Camp Pendleton which was just inland from Oceanside, CA. We got more advanced training and exercises (precise rifle training and practice and bivouacs.) One part of the rifle training was composed of simply practicing squeezing the trigger (rather than pulling!) You would line up the target in your sight and squeeze. After the "click" of the firing pin going forward, another Recruit would hit the bolt handle with the base of his palm to simulate recoil. This part of the training lasted several days. Along with the above we would go on long hikes -- usually with full field packs (40-50 pounds) and rifles. The mode of dress was the same as you would have on going into combat; fatigues, steel helmet and liner, leggings, cartridge belt. One of these hikes was 19 miles and even tho there was a 15 minute rest at the 10 mile mark it was still a very tiresome trek. During this particular stretch of training we also had to climb a 10 foot wooden wall, crawl on our bellies about 25 yds. underneath barbed wire and machine gun fire (with rifle cradled in forearms). jumping from 30 ft. tower into water. (This was to acquaint one with possible necessity of having to jump from the deck of the ship.) Insert .... II [f, fL..E S/-I/ttCP SltOdTEI( During rifle training while in Boot Camp, I earned the ·M(lfksl!\ar~hip"medal (3.+ 1.)(;1£' If by hitti ng 7 out of S bulls eyes at 500 yards. . �(~ / There were a few other exercises we were exposed to, but I can't exactly recall them right now. Finally, 90 days later, we ended our "boot" training and got our leave to go home. I thi nk it was 2 weeks. A chance to show off our Marine "greens" and nice tan. It was also an opportunity to see friends and to unite with family. I don't recall dwelling on it at the time, but of course, the fact existed that I might never see them again. After the home leave I reported to Camp Pendleton, CA where we were made ready to go overseas. INSERT"J" ..t,e.,.,lWe Iff'California at San Francisco in gorgeous sunshine and blue sky, heading for Honolulu. Never having been on the ocean before there was some trepidation but I was never afraid of the water. The seas were kinda calm and the breeze was fresh. After a day or so the seas got kinda rolling, and we did experience some pitching and dipping as well as yawing and rolling. A few guys got sick from the motion and contaminated the ocean over the side rails! What to do aboard ship for several days? The biggest recreation was reading. (The ship's store sold magaZines.) N~ to reading came card games. Beyond that there was sun-tanning and bull sessions. The approach to Honolulu and the isle of Oahu was a beautiful sight. Once again the sun was bright and the sky was cloudless. As we were going past the islands of Lanai and Maui there were perpetses threading in and out of the water -- paralleling the ship's course about 75 yards off to the starboard (righthand) side of the ship. This was fascinating and lasted about an hour. Upon docking in Pearl Harbor we were herded into -- what was called -- 6x6's and taken to the Marine Camp to await further orders. We had previously been issued a supply of clothes in California and these things (plus some personal items) were in our sea bags which we were told not to unpack except for change of "skiwies" and undershirt because we would be leaving for Maui the next dayl So be it! �t-~ '-' 1 .I Arriving at Maui we were loaded in 6x6's and taken to the Marine Camp up on the mountainside. Haleakala, by name, which was about 10,000 ft. high. The ride to the camp was fascinating as the many kinds of flowers and vines came right up to the road (asphalt.) The entire trip (about 20 miles or so) was beautiful. The camp was almost entirely a tent city. Company Headquarters rated a wooden building however. It rained upon arrival and rained quite often after that. The tents were about 24'x24' and bunked about 6 men. Because of the frequent rain and mud was a common phenomenon and wooden walkways (boardwalks) were everywhere. Reville was at 5:45AM and "Taps" at 10PM. Taps meant ·'ights out" and they did enforce that rule! Candles were taboo, but if you really had to finish that letter to home you could use a flashlight. ~) We went on a bivouac up Mt. Haleakala one time with full field pack. We went almost to the peak and made camp. It think it was Sept. or Oct. and it was cool and cloudy. This is where we learned how toatake our ponchos and fold them into a waterproof "sack." One did sleep well after that long trek --, i.n tdhe mOdrhning'de~erything around had a green cast. It may have been the a titu e an uml Ity. -.. Incidentally, in the field there was always a latrine to relieive yourself. Generally a slit trench with burlap ·walls· around it. For sit-down events there would be a small 109, elevated a little on both ends. Naturally it was adjacent to the trench. The Marines always fed well and the "cook" division (or platoon) would always arrange an effective field kitchen. Up on Haleakala,however, we were allowed only ·C" rations. This to get used to combat-type situations where there would be no "mess hall.· ·C" rations were meals 'in a can. Generally beef stew, but occasionally pork and beans. Instant coffee was provided in small tin containers which was one small ration of coffee. Just add hot water! We were provided with little can openers that folded down to about the size of a quarter. One wing was kinda oblong and flat while the other was triangle shaped with one sharp edge. You had to strongly hold the oblong side with thumb and index finger while piercing the can with the unfolded sharp edge. Actually it was a rather unique device. ~I �./ .~ ~. While on Maui we had bayonet practice em drills as well as intense physical conditioning. We were in good shape! I ~ Weekend passes were a blessing. We would don our "summer tens" 0JlI go down to Wailuku or Kahaliieu for whatever fun there was to be had. At Kahalieu they had a real nice swimming pool and they would open it to the servicemen during certain hours. When it was open to the military no females were allowed. However,one time an oriental gal did enter somehow and caused quite a ruckus. In her street clothes she ran to the diving board, sat on the end, pulled up her skirt and said, "come and get itW' The water boiled with. • sailors and Marines. Some records may have been broken doing the 20 yards! (I like to swim, but not tho1.bad! Risky for sure, for a disease you wouldn't want to get!!!) There were many things you could do on a weekend pass. It seems like half (or more) of the guys would hit the nearest bar. I thought that was a waste of time so I would go to the beach and hunt shells, go in and out of the little shops, go to the airbase and look at the P-51's and P-38's, or maybe to the usa and have a talk with a hostess and listen to some music while having a cold one. Always there were MP's to keep order..... mentioned, there was a small airfield on Maui and one time I went there with a buddy who had a brother stationed there. We were allowed on the field and the brother took us out to look over a P-51 Mustang. It was really neat and he even let me sit in the cockpit and start the engine! Man, what a thrill! You started the engine with what looked like a shotgun shell. An unforgettable experience. As In late November or early December of '44 we packed our gear and boarded ship for points unknown. We didn't know where we were headed. -- I guess for security reasons. We just tooled across the ocean waters day after day. We passed by Wake Island and the Bikini's (where atomic bomb was set off.) There was nothing left of Bikini except a pile of sand -- no trees, bushes, or anything. Many days later we arrived at Guam. We anchored offshore and took on fuel. There were manyships of varying descriptions all around. We stayed at Guam for two or three days as I recall and then took off �.... (' ' j again. Again, I say, we didn't know where we were going but after several days out at sea it was let known we were going to Iwo Jima, south of Japan. From that moment on we had several little seminars about the island -- its typography, climate, number of troops (assumed, from 63), location of pill boxes, and other military sites. It was rather amazing to us neophyte soldiers that they knew so much about the island. They (instructive officers) had a large draWing of the island which showed the two airstrips, location of bunkers, Mt. Surabachi, and other military targets. Whi le we were enroute and for weeks previous the island was bombed day after day for 75 days. It was later learned that even with all that bombing little damage was incurred to the bunkers and the mass of troops that were safely hiding in the vast network of underground tunnels and caves. INSERT·L" When I was sent to Camp Pendleton in Oceanside, CA, I met up with another Marine; Jack Layton, from Kansas City, MO. We fast became good friends and often went on liberty together. .~ Jack had a girlfriend back in KC, and I too had a girlfriend, my high school •steady" in Lansing, MI. When Jack showed me the picture of Janie (Marthajane) I looked at that beautiful face and immediately fell in love with her! (Didn't breat~a word of my feelings to Jack, however!) I felt, when looking at her, some ·mystical" . sensation, like I had already known her all my life Jack and I decided we would each write the other's girlfriend, to keep tabs on both ~ us, not knowing then where we were going. I think I wrote about 3 letters to) Janie which Jack "censored" while I was writing! I think he wrote Ji II, not sure. We headed off for combat, and found out it was going to be Iwo Jima. Jack and I were in the same outfit but going over were on different ships. We arrived at Iwo on February 19, 1945. Unfortunately, Jack was killed the second day of the invasion. I found out about it immediately and was sick at �) Heart. I wrote to Janie just after Iwo was secured, to tell her: -I haven't seen Jack for quite awhile and I probably never will.- I knew she would know what that meant! Because of censoring, I was unable to say what had happened. My letter reached her just a week before Jack's Mom received the awful telegram from the War Department. Just after I returned from Iwo Jima combat, I was sent to Maui, the USMC rest camp. After arriving, I received a letter from my girlfriend in Michigan telling me: 'Tm engaged and expect to get married soon" Well, what a blow that was!! Here we were, Janie and Stan, brought together somehow by God. I continued to write her and she did too. We fell in love with each other in a matter of weeks. She wrote me such wonderful, caring, loving letters. And I responded as well with so much love for her. I wrote her, during a period of 18 months, 200 letters. She sent me a lot of photos (wow» which I appreciated tremendously (as did the guys in my tent!) I asked her to wait for me and she did. All that time we waited for each other, having never met before. We knew it was a chance we were taki ng but we were both so sure of our love for each other. We both felt Gtremendous power bringing us together and never knew exactly what that sensation was. It was not infatuation, a pipe dream, etc.....It was, J. am sure, the Hand of God. Once before Jack died, I wrote her and said: -After the war you and I and Jack and Jill are going to meet in Chicago at the Trianon baJlroom, and tear Chicago apart! "WeJl, after returning stateside and meeting Janie in Chicago (having met her previously in KC in '46 and were madly in love) we went to the Trianon. When we were dancing, I said: -Do you know what's missing here?­ And she said: "ves, Jack and J'ill." It was painful to be so far apart and when I started college at MSC, it became more painful. We already decided we would get married, but when? I gave her my engagement ring on New Year's Eve in 1946 in K.C. We didn't think we would get married very soon. But by the end of January 1947, we couldn't stand being apart any longed So before my sophomore year at State, we got married June 27, 1947. We were so happy we were delirious! 16 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KirbyM Title A name given to the resource Kirby, Marthajane (Interview transcript and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kirby, Marthajane Description An account of the resource Marthajane Kirby was born on November 4, 1927 in Kansas City, Missouri. When her high school sweetheart joined the Marines, she wrote to him regularly until he was killed. His friend, Stanley Kirby, then took up the correspondence, and when he finally returned to the US, the two were married. See other interview record for papers. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Women Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-04-23 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3fbffba61c1630e77bf5e9ed365db0ad.mp4 fdd106cc08064bbd7c68172a090e1452 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a94faae28837cf20ad8a1e2e60b06811.pdf c62733aa78ea5d2ac2d96b11112eac34 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Interviewee’s Name: Don King Name of War: Other veterans and civilians/Persian Gulf War Length of Interview: (00:12:09) Childhood and Pre-Enlistment (00:05)  Born in Albion, NY in 1963 Graduated High School and enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1980 at age 17.  Joined the Marine Corps because his father and grandfather were Marines Training (01:23)  Attended Boot Camp at Parris Island, SC and then to Camp Lejeune, NC for further training Active Duty (02:43)         After training, was sent to Twenty-Nine Palms, CA, the Philippines, Japan, and several other bases in the US. He was reactivated as a reserve in 1990, and sent to fight in the Gulf War. They were shipped over, and they were sent to a staging area. (05:18) They were able to return to the United States with all but one of their original members. (05:40) Life on the base was very much regimented. In their free time, they would train physically, but they rarely got off the base. The food was OK, and served buffet style. (07:07) He made a number of friends while in the service. He was able to stay in touch by mostly letters, but also the occasional phone call. (08:30) They were sent to Japan and then the Philippines to help evacuate bases. They were then shipped to California and then Michigan. (11:32) They trained with the Japanese in cold weather during his time in Japan. Post-Service (9:00)   He attended therapy after the war to help him readjust to civilian life. His career in Real Estate was not influenced by his time in the military. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KingD Title A name given to the resource King, Donald, Jr. (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource King, Jr., Donald Description An account of the resource Don King served in the Marine Corps during the Cold War and Gulf War years. He served overseas in the Philippines and Japan during his original tour in the early 1980s, as well as in the U.S. He joined the reserves and was mobilized for the Gulf War and sent to Iraq in 1991. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource King, Morgan (Interviewer) Crist, Sofie (Interviewer) Forest Hills Eastern High School (Ada, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-06-08 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0ea7da36f4a4fd6221e75f9a95dec5c9.mp4 7d23f986f083912f51b25e74c3eee8fa https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ed759e3e78f486e7bb871158ec2ba835.pdf fd5678392bcbab1784ac5f710a1b5d93 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Carl King World War II Total Time: 54:33 Childhood and Pre-Enlistment (00:00) • • • • • • • Born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1924. (00:45) Father was a furniture maker before the depression and then became a farmer until 1936, when he went back to the furniture business. Attended High School and graduated in 1942. He knew about the war in Europe before Pearl Harbor, but it didn’t really affect him. He remembers them announcing the Pearl Harbor attack in church Many of the people that he worked with were drafted. (04:05) He went to the draft board and requested to be drafted into the Navy the next time the draft came up. (04:45) He had a physical in Kalamazoo, Michigan and then had a week at home before he was sent to Great Lakes Naval Station in Chicago, Illinois. Training (05:54) • • • • • • • • • He took basic training at Great Lakes Naval Station, where they were taught basic procedures and marching. He was able to stay out of trouble, as did most of the people there. (07:15) Many of the men in his company were from Tennessee and Kentucky. (08:07) Boot camp took 12 weeks. (08:20) He signed up for Machinist Mates Service School after boot camp. (09:15) They were taught to run basic machinery at the school, which took place at Great Lakes as well. He was assigned extra duties during service school because of his prior knowledge of machines. (10:25) He got liberty every other weekend while he was in service school. He spent liberty at home because he was able to make the trip to Grand Rapids in 1 day. (12:04) After Service School, he was able to choose where he would be assigned. He signed up for PT Service School. (12:45) They had to wait in a warehouse in Boston for PT Training. After the wait, he attended PT School in Bellville, Rhode Island. There, they lived in Quonset huts and spent a lot of time on PT boats in the Narragansett Bay and the North Atlantic. They spent very little time in the classroom. �Active Duty (15:30) • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • He was assigned to the PT Training Squadron as an instructor. He did not enjoy this very much. He began this job in late 1943. (16:48) He was then transferred to a squadron in Miami, Florida where he was assigned to work the base force, which worked on the boats while they were at base. (18:30) He spent 2 weeks in Miami, and was assigned to the base force. He was then sent to an island off of the Pacific end of the Panama Canal. There, they continued training and waited to be shipped west. (20:15) He then boarded an LST and eventually reached the New Hebrides islands in the South Pacific. They were just passengers on the ship, however he was able to talk his way into engine room duty to alleviate the boredom. The trip took around 4 weeks. (22:50) They were based on a coconut plantation in the New Hebrides, and were housed in Quonset huts. (24:15) He met very few people who were involved in PT before training. He was acquainted with John F. Kennedy during his training, but he did not get along with him. (25:35) He was in the New Hebrides as a waiting point before being sent to Guadalcanal. He eventually flew to Guadalcanal, only to find out that his squadron had shipped to the Treasury Islands just a few days before. (26:15) He was loaded onto an LST in Guadalcanal and shipped to the Treasury Islands. (27:34) They were then assigned to a tender, which carried all of the supplies for the PT boats, so he was no longer on shore. (28:20) They were then shipped to Palau, where they participated in a number of different activities, including protecting a fleet anchorage. They were there for a couple of weeks. (31:00) At one point, a minisub was detected in the fleet anchorage, but they were never able to find it. (31:48) A Japanese soldier was swimming towards the USS Yorktown with a floating mine, but the mine was hit by rifle fire and exploded before he could get close. (32:20) They were then sent to the Leyte Gulf in the Philippines, and arrived there 2 days after the invasion. When they arrived, there were still many Navy ships in the gulf. (33:45) They were allowed liberty in the Philippines a number of times. They often went to a small village of around 1500 people. (35:35) They were then loaded into LST’s and taken to Okinawa. (38:50) Most of their work on Okinawa consisted of rescuing downed airmen whose planes were too damaged to land. They were stationed in a small harbor that had served as a Japanese submarine base. It was located on the northern side of the island. They had very little trouble with the ground based Japanese troops, but were attacked by Japanese aircraft. �• • • • • • • (40:50) They saw a kamikaze attack on one of their supply ships. (42:25) They occasionally shot at Japanese aircraft, and he believes that they were able to destroy 3 fighter aircraft. (44:10) They were stationed at Okinawa when the war ended. He remembers hearing about the dropping of the atomic bomb while he was there. (45:20) He had been in the South Pacific for 2 years by the time the war had ended. They did a number of things during their time off, including playing sports and listening to the radio. (46:53) They were again sent to the Leyte Gulf a couple of weeks after the war ended. They scrapped their PT boats while they were there. They were only there for a short time. (50:15) He then boarded a boat which took them near the Aleutian Islands and then down to Seattle, Washington. They were loaded on railcars in Seattle and shipped to Great Lakes Naval Station where he was discharged in February 23rd, 1946. Post-Service (51:50) • • After his discharge, he came back to his job at the General Motors plant in Grand Rapids. He retired from General Motors in 1982. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KingC Title A name given to the resource King, Carl (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource King, Carl Description An account of the resource Carl King was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1924 and served in the Navy during World War II. He was drafted into the Navy upon his request, and attended training at Great Lakes Naval Station. He joined the PT corps and worked as a machinist throughout his time in the service. He spent most of his time in the service in the Pacific theatre, serving in the New Hebrides, Guadalcanal, the Philippines, and Okinawa. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-01-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c4dc9660c140b041f1f0ec2388efb7b9.mp4 78ef562682b3364ab4a50a5dc169d7ec https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/80523c3cb27c8a3eb5db615793e76377.pdf fb68aeb0943d6561199f72f5c0556b4d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam Elaine Kines Total Time – (40:42:18) Background · She was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1954 (00:48) · Went to Byron Center High School (00:58) · Her mother was a homemaker and her father drove a truck o There were 5 members in her family · She graduated in 1972 (01:15) · She paid a lot of attention to the war - remembers moratoriums and wearing black bands (01:38) o Didn’t understand the politics of the war, but it was popular to be against it · Her oldest sister had many friends that went to fight in Vietnam · After high school, she worked at the Meijer warehouse (02:12) · Tried to go to school and work full time – was not able to do it (02:20) Enlistment & Training – (02:29) · Was always interested in the Air Force o The Air Force was not actively pursuing women who wanted to join (03:07) · Recruiters did not know what to do with her until she tested (03:28) · She went to the recruiters office at Rogers Plaza and told them she wanted to sign up · Was sent to Detroit, Michigan, for testing and to get a physical (04:06) o She hand carried the test results back to the recruiter and waited to see where she was best fit (04:40) · The recruiter told her that she would be good with electronics (05:03) · She was smoothly moved to be excited about weather equipment repair (05:24) · She was sent to the Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas for basic training (05:41) o There were roughly 2 separate barracks for women for basic training · She was flown down to the base (06:10) · Was part of a “flight” – 30 individuals in a “flight” o Group that she trained with – all women (07:08) · Basic training was not very difficult (07:29) o There were different standards for men and women § Men’s push-ups vs. women’s push-ups �· · · · · · · § Men run 3 miles and the women would run 2 Learned about the Air Force in course work (08:05) Did a lot of marching and paperwork in training She was required to sign a pre-printed postcard to family (08:39) Discipline was highly stressed o Inspections were very important There was no kind of hazing throughout training She had a male and female instructor (09:43) Basic training lasted six weeks – until they received orders of their MOS (10:15) Active Duty – (10:18) · She received orders for Chanute Air Force Base in Illinois (10:28) o For weather equipment repair and weather observation · Flew on a commercial airplane to the Chanute Air Force Base o Chanute was much smaller than Lackland (11:16) o Now in a co-ed class of nearly 15 (11:45) · Stayed in a women’s barracks for all of the Army, Navy, Marine, and Air Force women (12:10) · Many of the other women were very young (12:32) o There were African Americans among other sorts of diverse women · The electronics training program was six months long · Worked with cloud height measuring equipment, radar, wind gauges, and many others (14:22) o Did not gain much “hands-on” work – did a lot of book work (14:55) · She had to wake up very early every morning · Went to school with Iranian technicians that were there to learn weather equipment (15:50) · Free time was spent doing laundry, taking walks, hanging out together (16:19) · She believes that the smaller environment helped the men to see her as just another classmate (17:58) · After the six month training, her job responsibilities were still wide open (18:17) · Her first assignment was in Minot, North Dakota (19:00) o She did not want to go there because it was the headquarters (19:10) · She met her future husband at Chanute and was able to get a join spouse assignment, which moved her to Seymour Johnson Air Force Base in North Carolina (19:50) · She got an entry level job as a weather maintenance person (20:17) o There was a good deal of OJT · The reception was that the males did not know how to handle a woman (21:04) o They changed the way they talked and did certain things o They were always polite and treated her kindly · She did a lot of preventive maintenance – strict with how the equipment was �· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · taken care of (21:46) o Worked on the flight line at this point Worked at Seymour Johnson Air Force Base for just over 3 years (22:45) She believes that the members of the Air Force truly wanted to be there (23:06) The Air Force treated her as an Airman and extremely equal (23:25) o She was sometimes referred to as “babe” (25:07) § She had to tell them to stop and they would She lived off base with her husband (25:59) They were all required to be wearing a full dressed uniform, off base, if they were to be in uniform (26:27) o She was allowed to wear her fatigues if she was traveling to and from work (26:49) She worked for a man that had been involved in the Vietnam war (27:55) o He did not talk of the war – He said that it was awful, hot, and nasty (28:10) Many of her comrades were there to make a career out of the Air Force (28:30) It was extremely challenging being a female o Was “hit on” all of the time (29:10) o The woman’s presence in the Air Force was sometimes misunderstood There were some men that resented having women on base (30:00) Being married helped her status among the men (30:45) There were many administrative women, but very few maintenance working women (31:45) Believes that it is brilliant to have women in the service (32:30) o If men are to be drafted, women should be able to be drafted as well The women felt as though they had more to prove (33:30) Recalls a story of a young man that jumped to his death because he had re-thought his entry into the service (34:40) She had terrible homesickness when she was there (36:14) After the Service – (36:27) · She left the service because her husband had been discharged and it was not practical to stay in (36:40) o In hindsight, she regrets not doing “20 and out” · After the service, she worked and her husband went to school (36:55) o She drove a hi-lo for Meijer (37:02) o If you served in the military, you were granted the same position, superiority, etc. when you returned · She had a daughter who served in the National Guard (37:49) · She sees that the situation of having women in the service has opened up o Women no longer have to explain why they are there (38:33) · Encourages women to join the military because of the many opportunities and that �they expect excellence (39:36) · Her military experience gave her a greater sense of self and she accomplished things that she could have never dreamed of doing (40:15) o Set her on a trajectory for her life – brought order and a sense of accomplishment � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KinesE1371V Title A name given to the resource Kines, Elaine (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kines, Elaine Description An account of the resource Elaine Kines was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1954. She graduated from high school in 1972, and continued on to become a college student and full time employee at the local Meijer warehouse. Unable to maintain her employment and schooling, she decided to join the Air Force. After passing her testing and physical examinations in Detroit, she was sent to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas for basic training. She received her orders after the six-week basic training, and reported to Chanute Air Force Base in Illinois where she worked in maintenance for weather equipment repair and weather observation. She was able to evade her first assignment to Minot, North Dakota by gaining a join spouse agreement. This agreement allowed her to be re-assigned to Seymour Johnson Air Force Base in North Carolina where she worked for over three years. She remembers both the hardships and benefits of being a woman in the service and left the Air Force once her husband was discharged. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Air Force Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-04-11 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c4aaca68f5daa2940eee9707a9840425.mp4 e5c5f374bf75a387b943fcf818eaaba8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6db4bbcc5e5f0474beafcc040b5c01c5.pdf b9279c3a8baed70e8c7e7bfc6c357707 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW DENTON K. KIME Born: Niles, Michigan March 11, 1942 Resides: Interviewed by: Richard Massa, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, February 7, 2014 My name is Denton Kime; date of birth is March 11, 1942. Once again, my name is Denton Kime, date of birth 3/11/1942. Interviewer: Today is Thursday, January 14, 2010. We are at Lake Michigan College in Benton Harbor, Michigan and our interviewee is Denton Kime. Denny was born on March 11, 1942 in Niles, Michigan. The interviewer is Richard Massa. We are performing this interview as part of the Veterans History Project being conducted by Grand Valley State University in Allendale, Michigan. Denny, let’s start with a little background. Where were you born and where did you grow up during your high school years? Niles, Michigan was my home town. We lived east of Niles in Howard Township of Cass County, a little resort area called Baron Lake. 1:06 I grew up in the neighborhood at Baron Lake, I went to high school at Niles. I graduated from Niles in 1960, and was active in athletics, student activities, after school work, week-ends etc. I went off to college and went to Albion College. My interest was pre-medical, I had visions of becoming a doctor, but basically I went to Albion, because I was able to play football there. I wasn’t able to play football at Notre Dame where I wanted to go, but I wasn’t big enough, or good enough, so Albion was a good choice for me. I had four years there, I failed to graduate on time, I neglected to complete a couple of graduation requirements, 1 �so once I was no longer a student at Albion I received a draft notice. 2:01 I was invited to join the United States military. They ordered me to report for the Army and I went to the draft board with a plea to be allowed to join the Marines. I had always looked up to the marines. I had a neighbor who was in the Korean War, with the Marines in the Korean War. My father had always talked about serving in the military, he had missed both WWI and WWII, and his favorite branch would have been the marines. If he could have gone in, he would have gone into the Marines, so I was kind of leaning towards the marines. The draft board said, “If they’ll have you, that’s good enough for us”, so then I went to the marine recruiter and the rest is history. Interviewer: As a college graduate, do they offer an officer candidate program, or anything like that? Yes they do, but I wasn’t a graduate. 3:00 I missed graduation, as I say, I hadn’t completed a couple requirements. I was short two semester hours of credit and I had failed to complete a second year of the foreign language, so in my case I would have been eligible for officer candidate school after a tour of duty in Vietnam. That was the way it was set up with the Marines, you come in, go through your basic and do your tour of duty, thirteen months at that time, and then you can make application for OCS, or various other schools that require a college background. In my case, I was interested in flying. The neighbor marine that I mentioned was a pilot and I thought that I would like to fly. Another fellow and I, at the college, had gone to the Air Force school—not the Air Force school, but the—I guess they call it the assessment center, and we had come away with very high scores. 4:05 So, I did the same thing with the navy flight assessment program and received high scores there, so I would have been eligible to fly at that time, had I 2 �graduated, but it didn’t work out. I didn’t graduate, so I couldn’t fly right then, I had to serve a tour in Vietnam, so I ended up going the hard way. Interviewer: Where did you go for the basic training? San Diego, recruit depot, San Diego Interviewer: How long was that? My basic was twelve weeks. Interviewer: Then did you go into any specialty training beyond basic? Advance Infantry Tactics, my military specialty was 03-11, which was a combat infantryman. Following basic training I had about a fifteen day furlough and that was right around the Christmas holiday, Christmas and New Year’s. 5:04 I reported back to, in this case, Camp Pendleton, and we underwent what was called advanced infantry training. It was small group training with platoon and squad activities, fire teams, and we were involved with that kind of training for about four weeks. Then they sent us off to staging battalion, this was at Camp Pendleton as well, and we were there about three weeks before being deployed to Vietnam. Interviewer: Did you have any—were you married at the time or still single? No, I was a single person. Interviewer: In this final bit of training, was that done as a squad that then went over in a whole unit, or were individuals scattered? That’s a good question. I went as an individual replacement, and I was nicknamed an IR, as Individual replacements were. Our training was all small weapons, or small squad tactics. 6:03 Teams of four, eight, twelve, sixteen and then we multiplied sixteens, you know, thirty-two and then another thirty-two to make a platoon. There were four squads 3 �for a platoon, the way the Marine Corps had it set up at that time. The people that I trained with, however, went different directions once we got to Vietnam. We went over on a ship and I was one of the lucky guys that got to ride a troop ship for twenty days with about eighteen hundred crazy marines. I got to read a lot of books, a lot of PT, scrubbed a lot of rusty walls, rails and things like that, trying to maintain some of the ship. After twenty days we arrived in Da Nang, and we were all individual replacements except for one group. There was one company of marines, I don’t remember what the designation was now, but they went together. 7:04 The rest of us were individuals and when we got to Da Nang we split and went in different directions. Interviewer: Do you remember your send off? Was there any kind of a ceremony? Did you have family in your fifteen day furlough? No, no, my dad put me on the train in Niles after my basic training furlough, and rode the train—there was no one, just my dad was with me at the train station. I rode the train into Detroit, there was a pick-up there from Fort Wayne, and there was a processing center at that time in Detroit. We stayed overnight in Detroit and then we were bussed out to the Detroit Metro Airport the next morning, and we flew, then, from Detroit to San Diego. No hoopla, no send-off, just get up and go. Interviewer: On your troop ship going across the Pacific, did you get to stop in Hawaii or anything? No—yes we did. 8:04 We stopped, it was Hoka Reef, we stopped in Naha, Naha Harbor in the Philippines and we had twelve hours of short leave for those who wanted to go. So, two other marines and I went in and we found a little restaurant and had some food, some Japanese food. A little while later we were overnight in Pearl Harbor taking 4 �on supplies and fuel and picking up some officers that were going to Vietnam, but we were not allowed to get off the ship at that time. So, I had fourteen hours in Naha and no hours in Pearl Harbor and that was it. Interviewer: Do you recall when you landed in Da Nang; you said it was, what was your feeling, or impressions at that time? 9:00 Well, we all floated in Da Nang, just a big kind of gangplank kind of thing, down and back and I remember thinking, “This is the place where I’m going to die”. I was thinking that, because I landed in Da Nang on the tenth of March, my birthday was the eleventh of March and I was going to be twenty-four years old. For years, and I don’t know why, I had always thought I’d be dead before I was twenty-five. I just—something was going to happen, car wreck, a tree is going to fall on me, something, and I don’t know why I felt that way, but I did. When I landed in Da Nang on the tenth of March, a day ahead of my twenty-fourth birthday, I said, “This is it”. This is where I’m going to die. Then I just went on, I got met by the people who I was going to be assigned to and we went from there. 10:02 Interviewer: What kind of a group was that? Was it a squad or a platoon? Well, I went as an individual replacement, a fellow that was there ahead of me, in that particular slot, had rotated back home, he had served thirteen months. He was gone and I didn’t see him. I was assigned to a squad and then, subsequently, I was assigned to a fire team within the squad. All of our tactics, like I say, were wrapped around the squads, squads and platoons at that time. I was the only one to go into my particular platoon from the group that had been on the ship, from the group that had been at Camp Pendleton, so I didn’t know anybody. There were people there who had been there since 5 �the marines first landed in Vietnam in force, about 1965, in October [March]. 11:00 A couple of the fellows had come in--a sergeant and a staff sergeant had come in with the first group. My squad leader was a corporal and he came in November of 1965, and I don’t know when the rest of them came in. They were all fresh in country, actually, and hadn’t been there a year yet, and this was in March of 1966. The first deployments of large company, or battalion, size groups came in October of 1965. I was during that buildup time. Interviewer: Did your twenty days of travel on the ship count toward your thirteen months? Yes, it did, it did, which was good news. Interviewer: Once your squad started going out as a fire group, what type terrain were you in? Was it in lowlands, or up in the mountains? 12:02 Da Nang is right on the South China Sea and there’s a large river that comes in there. It was a deep water port and it also had a very large airbase. It was in a huge valley, a huge river valley. That valley had to be two miles across and as flat as could be. Of course it went inland, probably twenty-five, or thirty miles and then it started narrowing down and getting close to where the hills began. But, in the Da Nang area itself, where we were, it was pretty flat. Across the river there were a couple mountains, one was called Monkey Mountain and one was called Marble Mountain and they were there on what would have been the south side of the river. 13:00 Then to the north, a couple miles out of town, there were a series of hills of fairly low elevation, and that was the early, interior border of the valley, but basically it was flat. It was rice paddies; it was vegetable fields, lots and lots of little hamlets where people had been relocated from the interior to get away 6 �from the Vietcong, to get away from the fighting that was going on interior. These relocation camps were set up around Da Nang and it was a relatively secure area when I was there. It became a little bit more unstable as time went on and the Vietcong began to put pressure on Da Nang, because Da Nang was—it was critical to the United States as a supply area. 14:00 There were no highways to bring materials into Vietnam across terrain from other countries. We had Laos on one corner and Cambodia on another corner and both had claimed neutrality. North Vietnam, of course, on the other side of the DMZ , so the only way to bring supplies in was either with aircraft, or with the navy, you know, the vessels, aquatic vessels. We were the deep water port and the big airbase, all weather, all vehicles, airbase in the northern part of South Vietnam. Interviewer: So, you were always in the Da Nang area? My service was always in the Da Nang area, yeah. Interviewer: What did your patrols do? We—the company that I was assigned to, Delta Company; we were tasked with the security of the airport on the south end of the airport, and there was another marine company that had the north end of the airport and we just—we had a perimeter that had been established and our work was to reinforce that perimeter. 15:03 That meant building of barriers of concertina wire, engineers put in mines, and we did clearing operations where the vegetation was removed, so we had clear fields of fire. We relocated villages and buildings that were in the free fire zone, or the cleared zone. Work parties every day, nighttime patrols, and listening posts. We would go out, and not every night, if we weren’t on a nighttime patrol outside the perimeters, we were on firing positions, at the perimeter, and that was every day. During the day, if we weren’t 7 �involved in a work party, building barriers, or barricades, or developing new ones that were there, we were in the perimeter firing positions, the gun positions. 16:01 it alternated, but it was around the clock, it was twenty-four seven. We’d catch sleep when we could, and about the only regular thing was an afternoon meal. Chow hall was available to us around five, between five and six o’clock in the afternoon. If we were going on daytime patrols and leaving in the morning, we could catch breakfast in the chow hall. the lunch was always C rations, no matter where—we were either out on patrol, or we were working , but in either regard, we had C rations, but we did have one hot meal a day, that was a good thing. Interviewer: Now, the patrols that were outside the concertina barrier there, can you describe what would go on with that? Did you encounter the enemy within that range? 17:00 When I was there the Vietcong had not got, in large numbers, close to Da Nang, they were moving in that directions down the valley, and that was to the west and the southwest of the city. They hadn’t gotten there in large number, so what we encountered was, basically, some booby traps. For the most part it was a relocation area where civilians had been moved to get them out of harm’s way and our job was to make a presence and let people know that we were there. We were, however, looking for the booby traps, material that could be used for weapons, caches of arms, food, any of those kinds of things, and trying to make contact with the civilians to let them know that we were on their side. 18:00 We did encounter a few, what we called, suspicious persons. The interesting thing was, at that time when you would go looking for people, you would find old people, lots of old people, and you’d find lots of young people. Young, meaning 8 �up to about ten, eleven and twelve and after that you didn’t see any young people and they had gone off to be in the military, the ARVN, the Republic of Vietnam, South Vietnam army, or they were serving with the Vietcong and they weren’t home. If you went into one of these little vills and found a man of age twenty, twenty-one, or twentytwo, you want to be suspicious of that person, because he shouldn’t be there and he should be with one of these other designated units. 19:00 Well, they had identification cards and they also had access to fake identification cards and all we could do was check their ID’s and if they had a valid ID, we let them go. If there was any question, we would bring them back to the company area and there were some Vietnamese interpreters there and they would be interrogated. We did find people, and we did bring them back and I can’t tell you what happened to any one of them, I know they went through an interrogation process and chances are some were released and some were detained, it just depended on the answers they gave at the time. But, it was a relatively quiet time and I served in the Da Nang area airbase from March until the end of April and then we packed up our stuff and moved to an area called Hill 55, which is about ten, or twelve, miles southwest of Da Nang, it’s out in this valley that I told you about. 20:00 The hill was not really a big hill; fifty- five means that it was fifty-five meters above sea level, and that was the highest elevation point on that hill. It was high enough that you could see out across the valley. Another marine company had been there and they rotated with us, so now we’re at Hill 55, and this other Marine company came back and took up positions at the south end of the airbase, and then things changed dramatically. Now our task was not a perimeter security situation. Hill 55 was a firebase, there was some artillery pieces set up there, big artillery, 155 mm, 155’s, and then there were some 9 �smaller tubes there as well. Some tanks that were set up—it basically was an artillery firebase to provide support to the units working the valley. 21:02 The area of the valley that we were going to be working was called “Dodge City”, and it was called “Dodge City” primarily because of a reference to the old western, “Dodge City”, with the vigilantes, the bad guys, and the good guys, the shootouts in the streets and the rough and tumble way of life. All of the “Dodge City” area was a free fire zone, anything there was fair game, but we had to be careful, because there were little hamlets. As long as the people were in the hamlets it wasn’t a free fire zone, but if they were out away from the hamlets, then they could become targets. That put them in jeopardy, because that’s where the rice fields were and they had to come out and operate their rice fields. 22:00 So, we had a tough time, sometimes, deciding about valid targets, and most of the time we erred on the side of caution. These people had to make a living, work the fields, and we walked through the fields the same as they did, you know, on our search and clear missions, and that was our new task. Once we got to Hill 55 our task was to clear the Vietcong from the area, find and destroy anything that would give them support, weapons, food, caches, explosives, anything like that. Interviewer: Did you find those things often? Every day, we found stuff every day, and lots of it, and one of the side effects of that was, the area was infested with booby traps. If you look at the history that goes with that, the Vietcong had been fighting the French for many, many years. 23:03 Finally they had kicked the French out in the middle fifties and the United States, wanting to shore up South Vietnam, provided support to the South Vietnam military and government. We had instructors there, these were the Special Forces people, and other instructional 10 �personnel, but they were viewed the same as the French by the Vietcong and by the North Vietnamese. These were foreign people and they weren’t welcome, so there was a continuing—once the French were defeated, the Vietcong and the North Vietnamese continued—they had a goal of reuniting North and South Vietnam. 24:00 The country had been split by the peace accords of 1954 or 1955, I forget the year, after the French were defeated. There was a mission from the north to reunited North and South Vietnam, and because we were, the United States was, and some of the other foreign countries in there, helping the South Vietnamese government, we were then targets. They wanted us gone like they wanted the French gone, so they continued their war effort, even after the war with the French stopped. Well, when the marines came into the area in 1965 and 1966, the Vietcong had a ten year head start on them, on this buildup of defensive and offensive weaponry, and they were very good about the booby traps, there were all kinds of things that they were very clever about. 25:00 Interviewer: If they set so many booby traps around, how did they manage to avoid them when another group that wasn’t a part of the ones setting the traps? One of the interesting things was the hamlets, the little villages, were pretty much selfcontained and the peoples stayed in those villages and they knew where the booby traps were. Interviewer: Did we find out the code to how you know where there is a booby trap? What it looks like or how to avoid them? Yeah, yeah, there were some tells [?] on some of them that helped us find them, but the Vietcong would put these booby traps in place and they would inform the locals and say, “This is an area where you want to stay away from”, and the locals did. Or, in the case of 11 �the one that injured me--this was a foot trap on the—there was a path between two rows of banana palms. 26:00 We were--in the United States we tend to travel on the right side of the road, in vehicles, and we also tend to travel on the right side of the road when we’re walking on paths and sidewalks, and the Vietcong knew that. They’re smart and they watched us, so they put booby traps, not on the path, but to the side and they put them to the side, so where, if you’re walking on this, because we were told, “Don’t walk on the paths because there’s booby traps in there”. Well, they’re one step ahead of us and now the booby traps off the path where we’re walking. Sometimes you could see them and the one that got me was a foot trap and it was covered with a woven bamboo cover sprinkled over with dirt and I didn’t see it until I stepped in it, and it was rigged to blow up. 27:00 But, sometimes those, if they’ve been there for a while, would kind of get swayback, so as you walk along you’re scanning the ground and you’re looking for little depressions, because the ground was pretty flat and it is clay, it’s hard, I mean firm. A little depression in a clay area, or a flat area, shouldn’t be there and that was one of the tells. Along the banana palms you just look for trip wires and you had to be real careful, because they were clever about hiding trip wires. With the bamboo, they would split bamboo lengthwise and put the explosive charge in between the two halves of the bamboo and let it come back together naturally and then there would be a trip wire. A lot of times these were placed shoulder high with the trip wires up here, and we’re, of course, looking for the ones that are down there on the ground, because we’re use to finding them on the ground, so then you run into it with your head. 28:02 Interviewer: Having to be real careful walking along, how far could you go, in say, an hour? 12 �I never really measured that and I don’t know. We’d go out at first light and we’d come back when the sun was going down and we’d be on the move most of the day with the stops in between. If we found booby traps, we’d blow them up. The engineers were with us and they’d just put composition C-4 on it and it would blow it. If we found spider holes, they were little holes in the ground where snipers would jump out, we’d blow those. A lot of those spider holes, we found out later, I found out later after I was back home, that they, actually, were connected to underground tunnel networks. We didn’t realize that at first when we were there, we thought they were just holes dug in the ground and the snipers would get in these holes at nighttime, and then when it got daylight an the Marines came by, or the United States forces came by they would lift the lid up enough to get a rifle shot off and then they’d drop back in the hole. 29:08 Well, these are all located in tree lines and foliage, so they’re not easy to see from any distance. If you’re not looking in the direction where the spider holes are, you don’t see the lid go up and down. Occasionally the lid would come up and you might be able to get a visual on that particular area, but most of the time you didn’t see them. So, it was probing, you know, we’d know that they were there someplace, so we’d go and we’d probe with the rifles with bayonets, and we’d just kind of poke and look for something, and these covers would come loose and we’d put explosives in them and destroy them. Interviewer: You mentioned that was you were out on one of these patrols, you actually stepped on one of the booby traps and did you have medics as part of your patrol group” 30:07 We did, we had a navy corpsman and he was attached to our platoon. He went with us whenever we went out, in fact, he was with us all the time, he was kind of like our base 13 �doctor. If we had any medical issue, we’d go and see Doc Cooper. We never knew his first name; we just always called him Cooper. But, he was with us on all of our field operations and I will tell you, he was busy every day. We took casualties every day. As a matter of fact, the unit I was assigned to, Delta Company of the 1st Battalion, 9th Marine Regiment. 1-9, the 1st Battalion of the 9th, had the nickname “The walking dead” and that came directly from Vietnam. That unit, that 9th Marine Regiment, had over ninety percent casualties during its tour in Vietnam, during its two and a half years that it served in Vietnam. 31:07 Of the people assigned to that regiment ninety percent, well, it was about ninety two percent, that were injured, or killed. We held the record for the Marines and about eighty three or eighty four percent of those casualties were from booby traps, and most of them came from Hill 55 and the—well, Dodge City. Then there was another area and I forget what that was called now, but that was a little farther south and a little bit more to the west, but it was also very hot as far as booby traps were concerned. Interviewer: Out on these patrols, did you ever encounter ambush situations? No, while I was there, the only encountering we ran into was snipers and booby traps. 32:00 No firefights, no rockets, no mortars, it was pretty quiet most of the time, except when we triggered something. Now, you asked a little earlier about medevac and the medics. We had medical support, we had corpsmen with us, and in the case of injuries we always would call in a medevac chopper. They responded and were with us very shortly, in five or—well, closer to ten minutes. People were transported to a field hospital somewhere around Da Nang; I’m not sure where that was. In my case I was injured, medevac came in, and they took me to this field hospital. The doctors did a quick look at me, made an assessment and said, “There’s nothing we can do here for this 14 �one, he needs to go to the hospital ship”. 33:00 At that time, Hospital Ship Repose was stationed just off shore at Da Nang and it was in the South China Sea. So, I was put back on the medevac and out to the hospital ship. I was there for about ten days and then I was transferred back to the United States on an air force C-130 I believe it was, Star Lifter. I don’t know what the number is, but it was a big ship that was rigged up as an inflight hospital. It took a load of casualties back to the states. Interviewer: Once you were out at Hill 55 then you didn’t have an opportunity to go back to off the lines area, you went directly, due to your injury, on the way back? Before you went out to Hill 55 did you have an opportunity for any leave, or recreation? No, R&R was available after about six months, roughly, to the Marines at that time. 34:05 I was only there two months before I was injured, so I missed going to Bangkok and Pearl Harbor, and Honolulu and Saigon. Actually, Saigon was a destination city and I didn’t get to go there either. Not like Bud Baker, his story, and it was an R&R town also. But, I was never eligible; I hadn’t served long enough, so I didn’t get any R&R. Interviewer: The first couple of months did you interact with the local, the natives, to any extent? Not much, and of course, when we were on patrols, you know, we tried to leave a soft footprint, we tried to do our job, yet not disturb them very much, although our presence was intrusive. 35:00 The little people were fascinated, the young ones, the children, were fascinated by the American military and primarily because of the size. The Vietnamese people are very small and the American military’s—we had a lot of big guys. The Vietnamese were very sensitive to skin color. In their own ethnic groups skin color 15 �is very important to them and they were fascinated by the black Americans, they wanted to touch the black Americans and the American Indians, Native Americans, because they had kind of a rusty orangish kind of complexion, and the Hispanics. They were just curious about that, it was something they hadn’t seen, so they were fascinated by that. 36:02 The little ones would come up and they would put their hands up, they wanted to touch. Of course, they were poor and so, they were always looking for handouts. Some of the early military people had handed out gum, or candy and so, the word got around that the Americans are coming along, you come up, put your hand out and maybe you’ll get something, it depends on the individuals. We were told to not do that and, “don’t encourage that kind of thing”. It was, really, a sadness, because they were beautiful little children, very poor, but yet, if they were around us and somebody started shooting at us, they were in the way as well, so it was better for them to just not to be where we were. 37:00 They were curious and they would come a running. Interviewer: During the time you were in Vietnam di you communicate regularly with your family back in Niles? Yah, I tried to write, I tried to write a couple of times a week. We didn’t have any particular time when we could do it, just a few minutes now, or then. We had mail call about every other day and it took about ten days for a letter to transfer from Vietnam to home, or from home to Vietnam. My mother was real good about sending care packages, cookies and gum, some things that made the day go along, you know, some deodorant, some razor blades, safety razors, and that kind of stuff. We always shared that with everybody. 38:02 If I got some cookies, whoever happened to be around, we’d pass those around. We did not have the kinds of set ups that are here today, there was no e- 16 �mail, there were not computers, there were no telephones. There was a military channel available for emergencies that would hook into shortwave radio setups in the United States and in foreign countries and they could patch communication s through from Vietnam back to the US, but that was a real cumbersome thing, it was difficult to get it together and it was almost not available to everybody. It was just a very serious emergency kind of contact, but it did work, so we relied on letters, cards and letters. Interviewer: Now, when you wrote your letters and did your communication, did you get the family and accurate picture of the dangerous situation you were in, or did you try to keep a lighter face on it? 39:08 Well, I tried to be positive about it, but I told them what was going on and some of the things that were hazards. They knew, when you’re in a combat situation, people have a general understanding that it’s a dangerous place. They may not know the specifics of what’s going to cause the cause the danger, or what might be the concentration. You know, I can talk about a booby trap , but maybe in their minds, you know, they think of booby traps as being everyplace, no matter where you step, no matter where you stand, no matter where you sit down, or what you touch. It’s a perspective kind of thing, so it’s difficult, sometimes, to not create fear, or alarm, but at the same time, I try to be accurate. 40:08 Telling about what was going on, telling about the people, the plants and the animals, and the food that we were eating, and the work that we were doing. I invited them all to come to Vietnam on a visiting tour when the war was over, it’s a beautiful country. Interviewer: Have you gone back? I went back in April of this year, yes sir, an absolutely beautiful country. 17 �Interviewer: What was your feeling as you landed there this time? It was a little different and, actually, I was glad to go back. I went with a group of other veterans and our spouses and we got into Vietnam, it was a guided tour, guided by people who had been there before, a group of United States Marine veterans that started a company out of Texas and they take groups back to Vietnam. 41:00 We were curious, all of us who had served there, we had the curiosity of what was it like now compared to what it was like in the sixties , or seventies, when we were there and, of course, there were very few relics, or remnants of the war, it’s mostly gone, except in certain areas that are set aside kind of like museums, little museums and you could go there and see some of the artifacts that were collected during the war. For the most part, it’s a vibrant country, it’s got new buildings, everything was destroyed during the war—I can’t say everything, but most everything was destroyed in the war, so in the last thirty-five years, or so, all this is new. The population is very young, as an average, and all of the young people came after the war, so their memory is of different things. 42:03 The older citizens remember the war and we had occasion to talk to a lot of the older Vietnamese people, those that had lived in South Vietnam, some that had lived in North Vietnam, we talked to North Vietnam army soldiers, veterans, and we talked with Vietcong veterans. Interviewer: How did that interaction go? Surprisingly, it was a very comfortable setting. We kind of thought they might hold anger and have a retaliatory sense about them, but not at all. They were—the Vietnamese people—well, a large part of the population is Buddhist, not all of them by any means, but a large part is Buddhist and there is a sense of living in the present. 43:01 They live today, they cherish their history, in fact, we saw buildings there that were two and three 18 �thousand years old and still being used, religious structures, but these folks tend to live in the present and they had moved beyond the war. They said the war was over. Their goal was achieve, the North Vietnamese goal was achieve, that is, get the foreign powers out of the country, get them out, and of course they did, so they were successful and they were happy with their victory, and they claim it as such. The liberation forces won, according to them, and that was true. They reunited the North and South Vietnam into one Vietnam. South Vietnam’s government crumbled and was taken over by the communists. 44:03 But, the people, they’re hard working, their industrious, they’re clever, they have a beautiful sense of humor, they’re, in a modern sense—it was interesting to see, they pack cell phones like we have cell phones here and they—you go out through the countryside and you see a straw, or a palm thatched hooch, house, and up on top of it is a satellite dish. They’re living the old way, yet they have the new things incorporated. Interviewer: Now, as part of your traveling around, were you able to, or did you have a desire, to go back to some of the areas you patrolled? We did indeed; Vietnam Battlefield Tours sponsored our group. They inventoried us before the trip and they said to us, “Where did you serve? Do you want to go back to where you served? Is there any other place in Vietnam you want to see?” 45:05 they tailored the trip so everybody who went, got to go wherever they wanted to go and they hit it one hundred percent. Every vet got back to where he had served and we had one guy that had served in five different places and we got all five of them. The tour people put it together. They took me back to Da Nang, and actually spent two days there, not just because of me, but because of the surrounding area. We were standing on Hill 55 19 �again and it’s significantly different today, it’s just a lot of grass and weeds, small brush and things like that, all the military stuff is gone. All the bases are dismantled, all firebases are gone, all the landing zones are gone, and all the observation posts are gone with the exception of a few of the air bases that the Vietnamese army is using. 46:02 they’ve maintained the runways and they have the buildings looking sharp, they’ve got them clean and neat, “strack” they call it, and they really take care of it. Interviewer: Getting back to you exit from Vietnam, where did you enter back into the United States? Well, from hospital ship Repose, I was transferred back to—I had my choice of a hospital in California, near Clark airbase, or Bethesda Naval Hospital in Bethesda, Maryland and I chose Bethesda, because it was closer to Michigan. I figured my family would have a better chance of coming to see me, being in Bethesda, as opposed to being in California. I could have gone either place, it was my choice, so I was at Bethesda and I spent about three months there and then I was released to go home. 47:00 Interviewer: Did your family make it out to Maryland? They did, my dad and mom were out, my sis came a couple of friends from college who lived not too far away came over and there was a gal from high school who had moved and was living in Virginia, not too far away, she came to visit. As I got a little better on, after things started to heal a little bit, I was able to get out of there on week-ends, so I was invited to go to a couple of different locations and be guest of the family, these were folks I’d gone to school with. Interviewer: Do you remember the feeling of what it was like to be back on American soil, relief or achievement? 20 �Well, it was interesting, because I came back—when I left the hospital ship I was pretty much blind. 48:00 I could see light, I could see dark, but beyond that I couldn’t, so I knew that it was daylight leaving the hospital ship. When I got to the United States it was dark time. I don’t know what time it was, but it was, as it turned out, sometime in the morning, two o’clock, three o’clock, four o’clock in the morning, something like that, and I was transferred immediately from the airplane, into the ambulance, to the hospital, and through the in processing and into the big squad bay where there were, probably, thirty beds. It was something like that, it was a big long room with beds on either side and there were ten, or twelve, beds on either side, maybe a little bit more. That all happened at night, it all happened when I couldn’t see very much, so my first recollections were just sounds. 49:01 Sounds of the airport, sounds of the ambulance, sounds of the people talking and equipment being moved around and so on, and then I was in bed. It was weeks, literally, before I could see well enough to even know what the room looked like, or have a chance to look outside. It was summertime, it was, probably, July by then and that was, probably, the first time where I could look out and see grass and green trees and recognize them as being part of the United States and not bamboo, or banana palms, which were the dominant vegetation in the Da Nang area. Interviewer: Now, then you say your rehabilitation there took three months? Roughly Interviewer: Then once you were released from the hospital, was that the end of your obligation in the service? 50:03 No, no, I’m still receiving treatment. I had damage to both eyes and my ears. I go once a year to the Kellogg Eye Center in Ann Arbor for assessment. I just had a laser procedure 21 �done on my right eye here in October, late October last year, to remove some scarring that occurred a long time ago, but it was getting worse on the little membrane that cover the lens , which is inside the eye. So, I had that work done and I’ve had corneal transplants, I’ve had an inner ocular lens put in one side and the work has all be, basically, to my eyes. 51:01 I’ve lost a little bit of hearing, but I’m not bad enough yet that I have to wear hearing aids and I’m okay with that right now, but it’s an ongoing thing. I put eye drops in every day, my left eye, which is the one we did the corneal transplant, that’s on going, that’s forever. I was pretty fortunate, with the damage that was done; the doctors did a pretty good job of salvaging me and the eyes and then actually rebuilding one of the eyes. I use my left eye now, primarily, my right eye is kind of a spare, it goes with me, but it doesn’t do much. I’m trying to encourage it to come back on line, but so far. Interviewer: After the three months in the hospital though, were you released from the Marine Corps? I was put on medical reserve. The technical thing was, I was reassigned and they didn’t want me to go back on active duty, because of my injuries. 52:02 I was put on medical reserve and about a year later I had to go to a VA hospital in, I went to Southfield, which is southwest of Detroit and went through a physical examination there. It was determined that the injuries I had were permanent, so at that point I was discharged, well following the paperwork process, I was discharged for medical reasons. It’s not the same, technically it’s like an honorable discharge, but it’s not. I mean, there’s no penalty associated with it, they don’t call it honorable because it wasn’t honorable it was because of medical. I got a medical discharge and that was the last time I was there. 53:01 22 �About five years after that I had to fill out some paper work and send it through, with a statement from an optometrist, no an ophthalmologist, an eye doctor, regarding the condition of my eyes, but I haven’t heard anything from them since. I get disability compensation ever since, well, ever since I got back, it started right away. Interviewer: Then when you were released you came back to the Niles area? Actually, I came back to Niles only for a very short time. I had earned some GI Bill benefits, I hadn’t graduated from college, so I went back to school with the idea of graduating and I didn’t do a good job of it, I failed, flunked out again, so then I went to work. I was in Albion and I went to work in a factory there, just labor, punch presses and spot welders, and things of that nature, and not knowing what I was going to do. 54:09 I’d pretty much burned my bridges at Albion and I didn’t have a degree, I didn’t have anything I could market, as far as job training was concerned. My vision wasn’t good. I thought at one time I might go into the state police and that was before I was in the service, but I thought about doing that, but I couldn’t go into the state police now, because of my visual impairment, so that was not available to me. So, I just kind of got a job and got through the day and paid the bills, you know, just lived day by day not knowing what I was going to do. Then I had an opportunity to go to a wedding, my best friend's brother was getting married. 55:01 I was invited to his wedding and it was going to be in Lansing. I was seeing a young lady at the time, so I asked her if she would go with me to this wedding. She said she would, so we went up to Lansing. We were there enjoying the day with our friends, my friends, and she was just meeting these people. Well, as it turns out, my friend's dad worked in the school system and he had become friends with the superintendent in that school system and the superintendent had 23 �been invited to the wedding. While I was there we got into a conversation with my friend's dad about needing some teachers to fill certain positions in the school, so my friends dad said, “Well, you need to talk to Willy Bill”, and that was the girl that I was dating, “she’s a teacher, maybe she’ll come and teach for you”. Well, the superintendent did talk to Wilma and she said, “I can’t, I’ve got a contract for this year, but you should talk to Denny, he’s got a science background, you’re looking for a science teacher and he’s got a major in Biology”. 56:09 So, the superintendent came to me and said, “would you be interested in teaching high school Biology?” I had never thought about doing that and I said, “I’ll have to think about it”, and he said, “Well, you come down to our school on Monday about two o’clock and you can meet with the high school principal and you can let us know and in the meantime you think about it”. So, I did and I went in and met with the principal and he said, “Here, let me show you the room you’re going to work in”, so we went to look at the old-- and this was an old high school. I went to look at the old science lab and he said, “I have to go, I have to meet with some parents, and when you’re done go see Janet”, who was the secretary. He said, “She’s got a contract there and some books that you can take a look in”. 57:04 Well, this was in August and school started about two weeks later, so I signed the contract. I had no idea what I was going to do , but I was eligible to teach in Michigan at that time, under the law. I had over a hundred and twenty semester hours of course work, I was a double major and I could qualify as a full time substitute under the guidelines that were in effect then. Quite honestly, they were looking for most anybody that would walk in off the street, the way it worked out. I went to school there, I taught three years and then I had to go back to school, because the state laws changed and now teachers, who were full time teachers, 24 �had to be fully certified. 58:00 So, now after teaching three years I had to go back to school and get certified to be a teacher, which I did. I went back to Albion, and I had written them a letter and asked them if I could come back and finish up, and they were gracious enough to give me another chance. So, after being a senior four different times, I graduated. Then I had to do student teaching, which I did, and then I was a full time teacher, although I continued to take education classes. I had to get twenty some hours of education work to make my license permanent, so I did that in the first two years that I was teaching. I mean it would have been the fourth and fifth year, and then I continued on and I was a public school teacher for thirty one years before I retired. Interviewer: Back in this area? In Eau Claire, yes, I was teacher, coach, councilor, vice principle for three and a half years, and adjunct faculty for Lake Michigan College. 59:01 I taught biological science, I had a pretty good career as a teacher, and I, quite honestly, I fell into it because of being at that wedding, the superintendent of Eau Claire being there at that wedding, and the gal that I was dating having already signed a contract, otherwise it might have gone a different direction. Interviewer: So, did your military experiences help you any with your life afterward? Yes, self-discipline, getting through Marine Corps boot camp and AIT was a challenge, it was a serious challenge and it pushed me beyond what I thought my limits were. Vietnam was another serious challenge and that put me way beyond what I thought my limits were. 60:00 The discipline that developed out of that and the awareness that you can go farther than you think you are able to go, I think helped out, especially in the 25 �coaching end of things. It was easier for me to encourage the young people to work hard and to keep working hard even though things might not be going their way. Try to be positive about stuff and look for a way to get the job done and don’t complain about what you’re doing. If you got a job to do, find a way to get it done and do it legally and do it fairly, do it within the rules. Yeah, it helped that way. Interviewer: Is there anything else you would like to recall? Only that every once in a while I get a pang of guilt about not serving thirteen months. That was the tour duty and I only served two months. 1:00 Interviewer: That passes pretty rapidly though doesn’t it? I’ve learned to manage it, but it didn’t seem right, you know, three months in basic training, a month in AIT, and almost a month on the ship going over. Almost four months in the hospital after being injured and I was only in country two months and somehow it doesn’t balance out. But, that’s one of those existential karma things that I don’t spend a lot of time with. I’m a very fortunate person, I could have been dead, I could have been maimed in such a way that my life would have been way different and it just turned out that I had a pretty good life, so I’m okay with it, and we get to do these things too—be good people. Going back, if you’re interested in going back, get in touch with this “Vietnam Battlefield Tours” group. I can get you a contact if you want to find out about it. 2:00 It was a very interesting experience. It was fun, it was educational, we saw lots and lots of stuff that was cultural, and we got into places that the average tourist couldn’t get into, because they, over the years, made connections with the Vietnamese government. We had to have certain permissions; we had government provided interpreters, tour guides, which was real interesting, because these people have 26 �to be very careful what they say, because they work for the government. Although it’s not intrusive, it’s interesting to note that the world in Vietnam is controlled by the communist party. For example, if you want to vote in an election, you’re welcome to vote. You register like here, you go to the polling place, you can cast your ballot and you can vote. 3:03 However, you do not have a choice as to who the candidates are going to be, there are no primaries. The party politic picks the people who are going to be the candidates and you can vote for them, or not, but you only get to vote for one person, because that’s the only candidate that’s going to be on the ballot for that job in that location. You can work, you can earn a living, you can keep most of it, you have to pay taxes like we do here, but you can gain wealth and it’s a pretty interesting country. The food is great—beautiful tourism; there are beaches, beautiful beaches on the South China Sea. The hotels we stayed in were all four star, five star hotels with several floors, six, seven, eight, nine floors. They’re all new within the last thirty years, or so. 4:02 There is hot water, all you want, refrigeration, air conditioning, television, e-mail, internet, and it’s a buzzing town with lots and lots of street vendors, and they love to sell you stuff. You’ve got to be careful with the street vendors, because there are so many of them and they have—they’ll sell you whatever you need and they come from everywhere. We were out at this one observation post, I don’t remember where it was now exactly, centered in the central part of Vietnam, and we were headed south on our bus. We stopped here just because it was a spot that use to be pretty important in the war and now it’s just overgrown with grass and vines and stuff, but there were still a couple of French bunkers in there and there were still a couple of—they’re knocked down pretty much now, but firing positions that had been put together. 5:05 27 This is out—no villages, no �hamlets, there’s nothing, you got this road going down through this open area, and here’s this hill off to the side. We stopped and went up the hill and we turned and looked back down and where the bus was and around the bus were about fifteen, or so, of these street vendors on bicycles. Where did they come from? There were no buildings; there was nothing around where they could have been hiding. I don’t know where they came from, but there they were and, of course, they wanted to sell us stuff. It’s fun, it really is, and I’d say to go, you pay one money, it pays your room, your travel, all your food, and the only expenses you have in addition to that would be tips for the drivers if you wanted that, or stuff that you buy from the vendors, or at meals if you want an alcohol cocktail or a drink, that’s not included. 6:10 Teas is included in the—soft drinks are included; water is included, bottled water, so if you don’t drink beer, or whiskey you save a lot of money. I’m done unless you have other questions. Interviewer: No, I don’t think so and thank you very much. 6:31 28 �29 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KimeD Title A name given to the resource Kime, Denton (Interview transcript and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kime, Denton Description An account of the resource Denton Kime was born on March 11, 1942 in Niles, Michigan. After graduating from high school in 1960, Kime attended Albion College, although he did not graduate because he failed to complete some of the graduation requirements. Once out of Albion, Kime received his draft notification and after joining the Marines, went to the Recruit Depot San Diego for training. After completing his basic and advanced training, Kime deployed to Vietnam and spent his entire tour in the area around the city of Da Nang. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Massa, Richard (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-01-14 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c630011abb715331e09c97427fd056df.mp4 59bd8554cec864dbdf9b96767b3bc626 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8deeb5c6141098a35f8d251e71475434.pdf bbc171173ad4b99553d3880ea6afd065 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW DORA KILMER Born: 1924 in Plymouth, England. Resides: Grand Rapids, Michigan Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project Transcribed by: Claire Herhold, January 17, 2013 Interviewer: Dora, can you begin with some background on yourself? To start with, where and when were you born? I was born in 1924 which makes me 88 next June, and my father was a deep sea fisherman. The whole family, for generations, were deep sea fishermen, and he would go away for a week and come home for a day and a half, and it was always exciting every week to be able to see him. Interviewer: And what port did you live in? Plymouth. During the war, my father was commandeered, called up even though he was forty something because of his knowledge of the sea, because the young officers didn‟t really have it and so they just really liked him because he was able to help them so much. 1:03 And he was made a warrant officer, and then after the war he went back to his living again. But five years after the war, his ship hit a mine that had never been swept and they all disappeared. And his brother was on the ship too. But anyway, he had a hard life. You know, fishing is a hard life. Interviewer: During the 1930s, you have the Depression and the economic problems and so forth. Because of the nature of his job, could he always make a living? Yes, yes. And my mother was a wonderful manager and she…Before the war, like you say, we knew it was coming and they were digging air raid shelters in 1938, and then it started in 1939. 2:03 Interviewer: And what kind of education did you have? �Well, I had elementary school and then, at ten or ten and a half in England you all take a scholarship, and if you pass the scholarship you get to go to high school. And it‟s sad really, because children even committed suicide over it, you know, and it divided sisters and brothers. But fortunately my sister, she passed and I passed, and we went to Plymouth High School which was the top of the list, because depending on where you passed was which school you were eligible to go to, so I was very lucky there. But we had to wait three months for the results, and believe me…I knew I‟d passed the math but I wasn‟t so sure about the essays and all that. But anyway, my mother was scrubbing the floor because it was a Monday and she…after the washing and all that, she‟d scrub the floor. 3:06 And she was scrubbing the floor and I came home, and I guess I was a bit of a devil, and I said, “We got our results but I didn‟t pass.” And she was scrubbing harder and she said, “Well, if you did your best that‟s all you can do.” And here I did very well, really. So, anyway. Interviewer: So how did you finish that then? Well, you were supposed to stay then until you were like 18, 17 and take your O-levels and everything like that, but my sister who was two years and eight months older than me, she left school when she was 15 and she worked in an office and was making money. And I was so jealous that I kept on to my father all the time and he finally took me to Prior‟s Academy and I took a twelve month course there, which I finished in six months because I was so thrilled. It was shorthand and typing and business. 4:00 And then I worked for a gas company for the next six years. Interviewer: My original question was, you were playing a trick on your mother. You came home, you said you didn’t pass. Now was there a punch line? �Oh yes, because then I told her right…what I was so tickled about was she just said, “well, if you did your best.” I always remember that. And then I said, “No, no, mum. I did pass.” They had a lot to put up with with me, I think. Interviewer: When the war actually starts then, in ’39, how long was it before they called up your father and made him go in? I think it was maybe a year or two. I‟m not sure exactly, but I think it was a year or two. Interviewer: Was he involved simply with training people or did he go out on ships? No, no, he was actually on a … you know, we had a lot of convoys around England because, you know, we didn‟t have enough food for everybody, even rationing. 5:05 And he was on an escort vessel, anti-submarine, and many a time, many a time, he would be…his ship and a couple of…because the Germans used to come over on E-boats from France, because they were in France, and they would glide in on their engines so the radar stuff didn‟t do any good, and they would, you know, just destroy the ships. And he was lucky that way, but he went through a lot. But what was so awful is that he didn‟t know what was happening to us while he was gone, because we had such bad air raids, and one time they came… he came into our port and they couldn‟t come in to land because of the devastation of the bombing and he didn‟t know. I remember his face, it was utterly gray when he came and found we were all right, because it was such a bad raid. 6:05 And so, it was hard. Interviewer: Was he sailing on Atlantic convoys, or just convoys along the English coast? Just around the coast. And they had commandeered a private ship for the Navy, the one he was on, and then fitted it out with all their equipment, and because of my father‟s age he was demobilized immediately when the war ended and they had a skeleton crew on it going back to �its owners, its civilian owners, and it collided with a destroyer and went down, and after it had been through all that time. Interviewer: When he was on that duty, how long would he be gone? Oh, sometimes several weeks because they went into different ports, I guess. He went over on D-day as an escort ship too. 7:03 But his life was cut off when he was fifty…fifty six he was, it was in 1950. Interviewer: Once the war started, how quickly was it before the Germans started to attack Plymouth? Our first air raid was in June, the next year. Interviewer: 1940? 1940. And from then on it got to be relentless. We had in our town, we had 70,000 houses bombed. That‟s a lot. And fifty churches. And a lot of people killed, and the worst raids were in 1941, in March and April. April was the worst and then they just flattened the whole business section of the city. In fact, after the war they were able to just redesign the whole thing. Interviewer: Where did your family live? We lived in a district…you know, they‟d go by churches then. 8:02 We lived in a district, St. Jude‟s, and it was about, I would say, about a mile from the city, so you know, we had…I know we had our windows shot out of our house, one side, you know, from when they hit a church that was close by and we had fire bombs that we used to put out with stirrup pumps and we got so good at that, because they used to drop them in what, like, you call baskets, thousands at a time, and we got so good at that that the Germans put an explosive nose in some of them, but you never knew which it was so you couldn‟t go out with your stirrup pump. You had to use sand bags, and wait to see if it was going to explode or not. Well, we got pretty good at that too, so �then they bombed us with phosphorous bombs. You‟d think you‟d got it out and the next thing it would flare up again. I don‟t understand how that works, but it did. 9:01 Interviewer: What did your family do if the air raid sirens went off? And you eventually were an air raid warden, so you’re working, but what did the family do when the raids happened? Well, the government, they would reinforce a cellar in every so many houses because we were row houses, you know. And they would reinforce and they were supposed to do ours. Well, the day they were supposed to do it, my great-uncle who lived in the same house as us, died suddenly and so they did the next door. But my mother always said later that she wished they‟d gone ahead and done ours because she had…my brother was only three at the time, three or four years old, and she‟d have to get him up and she used to try to get…well, she made me get up. I‟d rather have stay in bed, I was always so tired. But we used to, several families would come there, and I used to just lay on the floor with a cushion, you know and we‟d stay there. 10:08 I hated that. In fact, I didn‟t realize it, when I became a warden I was glad to be out and see what was going on. You know, when the bombs…the bombs come down like this. Well, when the plane comes toward you, you can be… if you‟re going to be scared, be scared then, because when it got overhead and passed by you didn‟t have to worry anymore until the next wave came around. And I liked…when you‟re in a shelter, you don‟t know what‟s going on. All you hear‟s all this racket and the whistles of the bombs and everything. Interviewer: How long would the raids last? Oh, several hours. And a lot of times, they would be just alerts because they would be passing over, probably to go to Birmingham or something and so…but, I don‟t know, we kind of used to �try to judge whether we needed to get up and go to the shelter, but that was only at night. 11:06 We never did during the day. We just carried on with everything. Interviewer: When the war started, you were working in an office in the city at that point? Yes. Interviewer: What business did you work for then? It was Plymouth & Stonehouse Gas Company, and the gas works were in Plymouth, not where the offices were. And our office was a great big building in the middle of the town, and when the town was destroyed they bombed…ours was completely destroyed, but we had a strong room downstairs that we used to keep all the ledgers every night. And the men firewatched during the night, so they got a lot of stuff out. And so, then we had to go find…all these businesses had to find places, private homes and all that, but we had a little shop it was, actually. 12:00 It was a four story tall, like a row building too, and it had … and that‟s where we moved to, but I didn‟t know that when we were first bombed out. You know, you didn‟t have telephones and so you just had to kind of try to find somebody who knew whether we‟d set up business again. And then when we moved there, the men firewatched at night and the women, of which there weren‟t very many because before the war it was just men in the office because they would start a boy from one of the high schools on his career, and they told me it was a temporary job when I first got it. And then about a year later, the secretary (that‟s really the head one), he sent for me and said my job was permanent. 13:02 That made me feel good. Interviewer: How did you wind up becoming an air raid warden? Well, one of the boys in the office, he was called up later, but he and I used to go to movies together, we were just really good friends, and so he suggested that we went to these classes. Now he lived in a different area than I did, so we didn‟t go to the same post but that‟s how I �became an air raid warden. But that‟s not a full time job, you see, but every time the siren went off at night you had to go, or you went, you know. Interviewer: What did the classes consist of? What were they teaching you? Well, first aid and make sure everybody‟s light was out, you know. You had to patrol to see all the lights were blacked out in the houses because you couldn‟t show a chink of light and then they also…we had to take of elderly people and get them to a shelter, and things like that you know. 14:09 Patrol the street, things like that. But yet the air raid post itself, we had our…we used to play table tennis in the next building that this was adjoined to, and we used to have dances every once in a while and social gatherings and so, even then, we made fun of that. In fact, I dated a boy from there that was one of the air raid wardens, and he used to see me home and then we‟d do our smooching outside the back door and then later on, after the raid was over, he‟d see me home again. And my mother used to say, “That air raid, that siren, you know, the all-clear went off a long time ago. What took you so long?” It was all, you know, very innocent. Interviewer: When the air raids were actually happening, would you be outside? 15:04 Yes. Interviewer: Ok. So you were at that point trying to help people get to shelters. Yes. We didn‟t go into the post at all during the air raid, but we had certain times of the week we did duty there, you know, just in regular time. But the nearest I was to a bomb was, the air raid post I was at was in the recreation area that had once been kind of marshy, I guess, years ago, and they dropped this, I don‟t know if it was a land mine…it was a heck of a big bomb, and I was seeing this elderly lady to the shelter and the blast, it was from here out to the end of Zena‟s house out in the yard, that far. Just that close, and the blast blew us down the steps into the shelter. We were alright, but we were covered with all the wet silt stuff, like or mud…no �mud, it was black, it was wet. 16:04 I guess it was the bomb went so deep that it got up the marshy stuff underneath. Interviewer: And actually it’s quite possible that the wet soil might have something to do with why you didn’t get more badly hurt. Yes, well I‟m sure of that, I‟m pretty sure of that because we were pretty close to that bomb. Interviewer: At what point did Americans start coming into Plymouth? That was in nineteen forty…maybe the end of 1943, and then I met Harry in early ‟44. And it was such an unusual way I met him because we had companion posts and there was the other post that was a companion to ours and the head warden there was, his son was going to be eighteen and was going to go off to the war next day, so they had rented, or not rented, they had had his party in the school and he wanted more girls there. 17:04 But I didn‟t know there were going to be Americans there, I never once dreamed, you know. But in his private life his was a news agent and his son used to go and deliver papers and he got friendly with these Americans. Well, this other girl at the post, she said, “Well, I‟d like to go but I‟m not going to go unless you go.” So I thought, well ok. And so I put on a red silk dress and then went to pick her up on the way, and because I was late, I‟m always late, her mother said, “Well, she‟s gone already.” And I can remember standing there and thinking, I don‟t really want to go. But I did because she was kind of a fussy girl and I thought that she‟d be mad at me. So, I went and there were these Americans there and I remember Harry and two others sang a trio, they sang “Carolina Moon” because that‟s where one of them was from, and they did a good job. 18:04 And then we played all these games and he partnered with me every game. And so, then after it was over, that was that. I went home and then the…we had such good eats and you know, anytime you could get good eats during the war it was good so we … the next day, they sent a message over to say to �come over to the post there because they had some of the good eats left, so I went. Well, I didn‟t know that Harry was going to be there and he was and so he saw me home and then we dated and then from then on… Interviewer: What kind of assignment did he have? What was he doing there? He was a motor machinist mate, and they had in the…in Plymouth, a bay, it was called the sound, Plymouth Sound. 19:02 And they had all these landing craft that they used to, they really got to know every bit of it because they repaired them, they conditioned them, they kept them up and ran around in them and everything. And that‟s… they were in Quonset huts down below one of the bridges, and that‟s what they did and then when D-day happened then that was a really important job, you know, because they had to dig a trench and had these little pup tents over it up on top of the hill, oh I forget the name of the beach. And they had to clear the beach and fix them. Interviewer: You mean, over on the French side? Yes. Interviewer: So probably Omaha beach because there’s a big hill. Omaha, that‟s it. Interviewer: So he gets sent over there for a while to work on that? Because for a long time they were using Omaha to move men and supplies back and forth, they kept using the landing craft. 20:08 Yes, he was on that beach for a while, when they…mostly for the first, all the waves going in. But then he went to Saint-Malo and was there for a while, and so he had some experiences. But then his mother had a stroke and after, oh it was in 1945, it was in the spring of 1945, when things were starting to get better, and he was sent home. Well, by that time we were engaged, �and he was sent home because his mother had a stroke. But then he was able to come back again because our wedding had been planned. 21:00 Interviewer: What did your parents think of him? Well, she [Zena Smith] said it all, they didn‟t approve at all, but they liked him, but they didn‟t approve at all, because they didn‟t want me to go away. In fact, people had a hard time asking after me, after I left, because my mother would just break down in tears. It was hard. You see, when you‟re young like that, you‟re in love and that‟s it. You don‟t realize what it‟s like to leave your country and your family. It‟s awful. I don‟t recommend anybody do it. Interviewer: Before we kind of get farther into that part, tell me a little bit about, sort of, daily life in Plymouth during the war. Well, we were rationed and, but fortunately until my father went into the Navy then he brought fish home. 22:02 We always had fish for two days. We didn‟t have any refrigeration so you had to eat it. But it was wonderful. I never got tired of fish, and I think that‟s why I‟ve bee so healthy most of my life is because I had such…fish. We used to eat it for breakfast sometimes even, and I loved it. Interviewer: What did you do when he was off in the Navy then? Well, then there was one of my uncles that was still fishing. He‟d bring us some sometimes, you know, not all the time. And then we had the rations like everyone else. My mother was so good at managing the rations. She really was, because we used to get two shillings and six pence, which I think at that time was a half a dollar. And we used to… you know, if you had five, say, in the household you‟d get a joint on Sunday or maybe a little bit of other meat, but that‟s not very much, you know. 23:01 And then we had one egg a week, sometimes more in the summer. And we had an ounce of butter, two ounces of margarine, two ounces of lard, because we always �made pastry with lard in England, it was used quite a lot. And then we had…I mean, even candy was rationed. You got used to it, you know. You just got used to it. But I didn‟t know about under the counter stuff, like you asked. If that went on, I didn‟t know it. Interviewer: What proportion of the population…did people leave and go other places when Plymouth got bombed? Did other children, people go into the country or elsewhere? Yes, actually, they only had very little evacuation from Plymouth. I don‟t know why. But I know that one time, I think it was in 1944, my father, at that time he must have been out, you know, in the Navy, and he was so worried about us with all the raids and everything, he made us go to the country for two months. 24:14 We couldn‟t wait to get home. My mother said, “I look out one window and I see cows and I look out another and I see cows.” I used to go back to Plymouth every day on the train to my job, and a lot of other people. Well, we packed it after about six weeks, but it gave him the peace for that length of time. Interviewer: Did Plymouth become a target for the German buzz bombs or things like that? Or just the regular planes? No, that was just London, London mostly. And I was in London one time when they had buzz bombs come over. You never knew where they were going to fall. They got used to that too, you know. 25:00 We just carried on during the war, and … I don‟t know, that‟s the time…the age I was then, that‟s the time you‟re dating. Now, it was horrible not to be able to have much clothes. I know my father, when he was in the Navy went to the officers‟ club and got my sister and I the smallest men‟s good pajamas so we didn‟t have to spend coupons on that. And then boyfriends sometimes would give you a few, not for any favors though. Interviewer: When did you actually get married? 1945. �Interviewer: When? After the war was over or while it was still on? Well, it was just about ending. In fact, it was the day after…I didn‟t realize it „til Zena said, it was the day after she got married „cause I was married on August the 2nd. Interviewer: Did the Americans help out with the ceremony? Because Zena got her cake from them. 26:07 No, they didn‟t have anything to do…of course, he was in the Navy, you know. But my mother, I mean, there was a restaurant that used to cater some. You can get, I think…maybe we were allowed extra coupons, I don‟t remember, but that‟s where we had our… oh what am I trying to say? Interviewer: Reception? Yes. Geez, old age. And I was married in the parish church and Harry‟s, one of his buddies was best man. I have a picture here. My sister was bridesmaid. I didn‟t have anybody give me, or lend me a wedding dress. 27:00 Interviewer: Did he have to go home first and leave you behind or how did that work? Yes, he did. Because when the war was over he had to go home. Well, in the meantime I got pregnant and I had, I couldn‟t go until the following April, May because of the age of the baby. She was just a couple months old. And so then we were delayed because we had to go to a seaside resort before we went to Southampton to go get all together and then they had a dock strike in New York and so our ship didn‟t go so we were a couple of weeks in that hotel. And then, I wasn‟t lucky enough, well I don‟t know about lucky after hearing… wasn‟t on the Queen Mary or the Queen Elizabeth. I was on the E. B. Alexander, and it took fourteen days. 28:02 And then the babies, young babies had to be kept in the nursery on the boat, because they weren‟t allowed in the cabins, the little tiny ones like mine was. So they had a sick bay on the �ship and unknown to me during the voyage but I found out towards the end of the voyage, three babies died. So after we got into New York I saw a couple of different babies near my daughter‟s crib and I said, “Oh, I haven‟t seen them.” They said, “They were in sick bay. They‟ve closed sick bay.” Well, what do you think happened then? My daughter got sick. She almost died. She went down to below eleven pounds when she was…by the time she was six months old she was below eleven pounds. I don‟t know how much less than that she was before. And but see, I wouldn‟t have been exposed to that because my husband was going to come to New York to meet me and they told us when we were in Bournemouth with that delay not… they strongly advised us to let the government see us to our destination, not have our husbands meet us, which doesn‟t make sense a bit to me. 29:18 And I had to call him on the phone to tell him this and he said, “No. I‟m coming to meet you. I‟ve got it all arranged.” And I said, “No, no.” You know how you want to do what you‟re supposed to do, do what you‟re told. And if he had met me, she wouldn‟t have gotten sick. They wanted to put her in a hospital in New York, and all I wanted to do was get out of there and get to where I was going and see about it then, so they let me take her, they said if I‟d call a doctor as soon as I got there, which of course I did. And then the doctor was going to put her in hospital and people, Harry‟s friends said, “Oh don‟t let them do that because they‟ve got staph there.” Well, of course I didn‟t even know what staph was. I thought he was talking about … Interviewer: The people and not the infection. 30:01 And then the first meal I had there, these friends had a meal for me and somebody said would you care for some sweet potatoes? And I thought, “Oh my god, they even put sugar in their potatoes.” Now I love them. Interviewer: Do you know what was wrong with your daughter? �Well, yes. It was dysentery. And what they did to, they finally got rid of…I think it‟s called kaopectate. Whatever it is, it‟s some kind of clay that goes down and takes the disease away, and that‟s how…she, it‟s a wonder she didn‟t die. Interviewer: You got very lucky there. What was your husband doing now that he was back from the war? Over here? Well, he was a great mechanic and it fared him well through life. 31:00 But he started, you know, just as a mechanic and didn‟t make very much but before I came over he had…with whatever they get, or whatever he had sent home to save, he was able to put a down payment on this little house. And so we couldn‟t move into it for about two months because right after the war, housing was so short that even if you sold your house you could live in it „til the people got out…it was like a … So I got there in May and we moved into our house in July and I remember we bought some furniture, and the way we did that was …we always did this, if we had to borrow money for furniture we go on that four months, 30, 60, 90, and you didn‟t have to pay any interest. We did that with the department store there and that‟s the way we furnished. Interviewer: And where were you living at that time? 32:00 In Fairmont, West Virginia, which, believe me, was a … well, you know, you go to a coal mining state, and you‟ve been raised by the sea, lived by the sea and that‟s all you‟ve known and then to…that was hard. I‟m not going to say that wasn‟t hard. Interviewer: How long did you stay there? Well, I stayed there for, let me see, I guess forty years. And I didn‟t realize…you know, I always felt I wanted to get out of West Virginia and so I left a lot of friends there that probably, if I‟d had hindsight, you know, I wouldn‟t have left there. But I wouldn‟t have met Zena and it‟s �been so wonderful to meet these war brides. That‟s the highlight of my month to have lunch, and there‟s only so few left. 33:01 Interviewer: Did your husband eventually have his own garage or his own business? Oh yes. He had his own business. He worked…after he was, after about a year, maybe a year and a half, he got a telephone call and it was from some business, automotive, you know, rebuilding business, and offered him a job as over them all, and he wore a suit to work then. And he did very well and eventually he started his own business and he also invented a wonderful thing that, they used to call it, the “methane buster.” And it got patented and it was this machine, this big machine that he invented. They‟d go put it down in the mines and it would turn the methane into regular fuel, so it was a dual purpose. 34:03 A lot of mines use that in West Virginia. Now they couldn‟t use it in the real, real deep mines but they did…they still have it now. And so he was really, really knowledgeable about engines. There wasn‟t a thing he didn‟t know about engines. Interviewer: When you went out to West Virginia, how did the people out there treat you? His family or the ones around? His family were in another town. We were in a town about twenty three miles…his mother was still living and she came and stayed with us for a while. He had two sisters, and his mother spent most of her life with one of them. I mean, most of her later life. And then, it was when I had my third child that she had a stroke just before that, and I was only able to visit her one time and then I had my last child, and so I always know exactly, you know, when she died, because she died… 35:11 But I saw her, and I gave her, fed her some ice cream and things when she was in the hospital, but that was sad. �Interviewer: But were the people in the community welcoming to you? Or did they just think you were strange? Yes, very nice, very nice. I had some funny episodes, you know, things happening. Things I‟d ask for at the store and they‟d scratch their heads. And the bus…I remember the bus was two or three blocks away and I was used to it stopping outside my door in England, a double-decker bus, you know. Oh, and I didn‟t tell you, I wasn‟t supposed to have another child for four years because my first child‟s birth was so difficult but the doctor, he said you probably won‟t get pregnant because your womb is tilted. 36:07 Well, I thought I wouldn‟t get …well, right away. Now here comes number two child. I couldn‟t drive, we didn‟t have a car, not for several years, and so I used to take them both up two or three blocks to get on the bus to go into town. But it was different, you know, just very, very different. And another thing is my husband was a workaholic and I don‟t know but…you know, when you meet someone in a different…you don‟t know that you‟re not really the same, you know? And I can remember always at home you were always there at meal time unless you were gone somewhere else that they knew about, and he would not come home. And we had a phone, I thought that was wonderful, and he wouldn‟t even take the time to call. 37:02 Now, I wasn‟t used to that. And I remember going to the door, you know, I wanted to be a perfect little wife and had the meals nice and I would be at the doorway, furious. So that was hard to get used to, but I got used to it. You get used to anything eventually, if almost as bad as World War Two. And if I called him to say, “Are you going to be home?” because he did, he worked really hard, he was always a worker. And he‟d say “I don‟t know, I don‟t know yet.” I‟d say, “Could you give me an idea of the time because I need to know.” And he‟d say, “Oh sometime between seven and nine.” So it was hard, but as I say, I got used to it. Now I had two children and so I just dealt with it, you know. �Interviewer: Did you get to go back to England? Well, that‟s another thing. Because of the difficult birth of my first child, and the second birth after it, I had terrible inflammation. 38:00 I was in pain. I used to pass out almost on the middle of the floor, and I had two children to take care of. So I went to the doctors and they wanted to operate. Well, I didn‟t have anyone to take of the two children, although my neighbors, I know the neighbors we were so friendly with would have, but there was two of them and I…so I elected to go home and have it. And so I took the two babies home and I went on the Queen Elizabeth and it didn‟t have stabilizers and they got seasick, I got seasick, Jennifer came down with a whooping cough on the way over. And so when I went through customs in Southampton the officers, you know, they used to really look in your bags then and he started to open it up and I saw my father over behind the barrier and I started crying. He just x-ed everything and sent me on my way. 39:01 Then I went home again in ‟56 and the girls were nine and ten, or … yeah, nine and ten, and my little boy was four years old. And one of our friends said, “when you see somebody over in England you say to them „up your bloody buckets, jocko.‟” I said you shouldn‟t tell them that. I guess they were over in England and somebody had said that or something. It‟s “up your buttocks,” actually, but “buckets,” so here‟s Tommy saying, “up your bloody buckets, jocko,” and they‟d say, “what did you say, my dear?” I had good friends, they were just mischievous. Anyway, and then I didn‟t get to home again until 1961 when I went by myself then because the bishop of West Virginia was taking some ministers and their wives over with them on kind of a pilgrimage where they‟d go into parishes over there. 40:06 And they had some seats left over and I got to go over, fly over, that‟s the first time I flew for $125, and then I went, you know, down to my home then and while they were doing their thing. And later on �some of those parishes, they did the same thing from over there, and I helped to entertain a really nice minister and his wife from somewhere in England. Life goes on, doesn‟t it? Interviewer: Yes, and thanks for a good story here. Anything else you’d like to add to the record here, before we close out? Well, for the record I would like to say that in 1944 Glenn Miller performed for the troops in Plymouth at the theater and, Harry was in France, so it must have been later in ‟44, and so one of his buddies that didn‟t go over took me to this because it was for servicemen, you know. 41:11 And oh, that show was fabulous. Glenn Miller, I mean, he played “String of Pearls” and all this stuff and then he signed autographs, but I didn‟t go up and get an autograph. I wish I had, but whoever was taking me needed…and so, the picture was in the paper, and then that was the last performance he ever gave. And you know, he was famous, Glenn Miller, and they made a movie about him after. But his plane was on the way over to Paris to arrange for the band to come over to entertain the troops and never got there. God, that‟s horrible isn‟t it. 42:00 Interviewer: Well, thank you very much for taking the time to tell me your story today. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KilmerD1343V Title A name given to the resource Kilmer, Dora (Interview transcript and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kilmer, Dora Description An account of the resource Dora Kilmer was born in Plymouth, England, in 1924. After high school, she worked for a gas company in the office and eventually worked as an air raid warden. As an air raid warden, she patrolled outside and assisted others in getting into the shelters during the raids. She met an American soldier stationed there and married him in 1945 towards the end of the war. Eventually, she went back to the US with her husband and lived in West Virginia, and eventually Michigan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-02-01 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bbfbe8b5d3ea961249bee80f8cd206f0.mp4 ed24d4ef369e3617e8bc7dec2831041f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/90c7712fe8113fcfb1d57bd9980d9652.pdf 0bab37e033b7c4c677fce360b25a909c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Greg Kiekintveld Vietnam War Interview Length: (01:44:25:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:12:00)   Kiekintveld was born in Holland, Michigan in May 1949 (00:00:12:00) o While Kiekintveld was growing up, his mother was a stay-at-home mom who sold Avon products on the side and his father worked for the post office, first as a mail carrier then as a supervisor (00:00:24:00) o Growing up, Kiekintveld attended public schools and graduated from Holland High School in 1968 (00:00:43:00) After he graduated from high school, Kiekintveld spent some time building houses before he was drafted into the military (00:00:57:00) o Kiekintveld had a 1A draft status all the way through high school, although he should have had a student deferment; this meant that once Kiekintveld was out of high school, colleges and universities did not even look at him (00:01:07:00)  Kiekintveld and his family argued with the draft board that he should have a student deferment but they eventually gave up when they were told that they could not sue the draft board (00:01:33:00) o Initially, Kiekintveld tried to join the SeaBees (Naval engineers) because he figured they would be easier than enlisting in the Army; however, there was a long wait list of draftees trying to join the SeaBees (00:01:50:00) o Kiekintveld does not remember exactly when he received his draft notice but he was officially drafted in March 1969 (00:02:04:00)  Kiekintveld had already gone through a military physical while he was still in high school (00:02:26:00)  While at the physical, Kiekintveld does not recall anyone trying to actively beat the system and get a draft status other than 1A; mostly, the men were complaining that they did not want to be drafted (00:02:54:00)  Once he was officially drafted, Kiekintveld went through another physical and he recalls the man behind him asking if he could cut in front of Kiekintveld so he could stand by his friend (00:03:04:00)  Kiekintveld did not care and let the man cut him; however, the recruiters eventually counted off one through ten and had the tenth man step forward to join the Marine Corps and lo and behold, that man was the tenth man (00:03:15:00)  Kiekintveld recalls another man had a bad limp because one of his legs was shorter than the other; however, the man was still drafted because the recruiters said the man could be a clerk (00:03:43:00) � Following the second physical, Kiekintveld and the other draftees spent the night in Detroit and the following day, they were bused to Fort Knox, Kentucky to begin their basic training (00:04:05:00) o The reception that Kiekintveld and the other draftees received at Fort Knox was the typical reception that all new draftees received; the draftees were now the military‟s and they were told to forget their civilian lives (00:04:16:00)  It was not the reception that Kiekintveld was expecting but he kept his mouth shut and did as he was told (00:04:36:00) o The training company that Kiekintveld was with did a lot of physical training, going through a PT test almost every day before supper (00:04:59:00)  The physical training did not bother Kiekintveld too much because he was in pretty good physical shape, having played football in high school and having done construction work before being drafted (00:05:23:00) o There was a large amount of emphasis on discipline, with push-ups being the most common method of punishment for breaking the rules, such as back-talking the instructors or breaking formation (00:05:48:00)  During the first couple of days, the drill instructors made it clear that they were going to break the civilian habits of the new arrivals and were going to instill military minds into the new arrivals (00:06:14:00)  Because of his long last name and the fact that very few of the drill instructors could pronounce it, Kiekintveld was very seldom called for assignments such as KP (00:06:35:00) o Adjusting to life in the military was kind hard for Kiekintveld at first because he was not used to taking orders from others; however, he reasoned that if everyone else could, he could as well, so he put his mind to it (00:07:08:00) o On the whole, the drill instructors tended to pick on the trainees who were not as cooperative with the training (00:08:04:00)  On some occasions, Kiekintveld felt sorry for those trainees, but it was mostly for the soldiers who did not have the physical abilities to keep up with everyone else (00:08:15:00)  If a trainee really could not keep up with the rest of the group, he was often recycled to the next class, with the instructors trying to build the soldier up physically (00:08:43:00) o During his first basic training session, Kiekintveld ended up coming down with pneumonia and was in the hospital for two weeks (00:09:09:00) o Once he got out of the hospital, Kiekintveld had to start the basic training all over again; although he was somewhat bummed out by that, there was nothing he could do about it (00:09:18:00) o There was a mixture of people from different backgrounds in each training company; there was not a black company and white company (00:10:22:00) o Kiekintveld and the other trainees went through a series of aptitude tests and two of the questions were where they would like to be stationed and what they would like to do (00:10:58:00)  Kiekintveld does not remember where he put that he would like to go but he remembers putting that he would like to do construction (00:11:12:00) �   The basic training lasted for around six to eight weeks and towards the end of the training, Kiekintveld found out he would be going to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri for his AIT (Advanced Individual Training) to be a combat engineer (00:11:27:00) o While at Fort Leonard Wood, Kiekintveld trained to be a floating bridge builder, to erect massive floating bridges (00:12:01:00)  Originally, the soldiers in the program built their bridges during the day but towards the end of the training, they had to build a bridge a night using massive spotlights (00:12:18:00)  Apart from training to be a bridge builder, Kiekintveld also received some training in demolitions and using various weapons; however, most of the training still focused on the bridge building (00:12:34:00) o When compared to basic training, AIT was not nearly as physical and not as degrading to the trainees (00:12:58:00)  The instructors treated the trainees a little bit better but the instructors still gave orders (00:13:08:00)  For the most part, the trainees had a fairly regular daily schedule compared to basic training, when the trainees were sometimes woken up at three in the morning to make five mile marches (00:13:27:00)  While in AIT, the trainees were allowed to leave the base a couple of times on weekends; however, there was not a major city near the fort for the soldiers to visit (00:13:45:00) o The drill sergeants during basic training were almost all Vietnam veterans and they constantly re-enforced the idea that the trainees needed to kill their enemies, mostly by downgrading the enemy to something that was less than human (00:14:17:00)  The drill instructors left the task of explaining the conditions in Vietnam to someone else; they were focused on killing the enemy (00:14:57:00)  On the other hand, the instructors at AIT were a combination of professional engineers and soldiers who had served in Vietnam; a handful of the instructors had been to Vietnam but most were akin college engineering professors (00:15:36:00) o About a third of the instruction at AIT was in the classroom, with the remaining two thirds used for hands-on instruction (00:15:58:00) Prior to actually going to Vietnam, Kiekintveld did not know too much about what was happening in Vietnam; he did not pay too much attention to the news stories bout it when he was growing up (00:16:18:00) o Kiekintveld had a couple of friends in high school who wanted to join the Marine Corps together but Kiekintveld declined (00:16:59:00) Kiekintveld completed his AIT in about another six weeks, after which he returned to Holland for two weeks before leaving for his deployment to Vietnam (00:17:39:00) o When he initially started to deploy to Vietnam, Kiekintveld first flew to California, although he does not recall where exactly (presumably Oakland) (00:17:50:00)  While in California, Kiekintveld and the other soldiers stayed in a massive warehouse divided into large cubicles labeled “A”, “B”, “C”, etc.; every so often, a cubicle would be called out and all the soldiers in that cubicle �o would board buses to go to the airport for a flight to Vietnam (00:18:03:00)  At the time, the President said he was only sending fifty thousand new soldiers to but in reality was sending sixty thousand; Congress eventually found out about the extra ten thousand soldiers, so Kiekintveld stayed in California for an extra two weeks until Congress let up the pressure on investigating the situation (00:18:47:00)  Kiekintveld does not recall where exactly the warehouse was located because he and the other soldiers were confined to the building (00:19:15:00)  The only things the soldiers could do was lie around their cubicles reading magazines; they were not allowed to write letters to their families or even go outside (00:19:46:00)  Once Kiekintveld‟s cubicle finally received their call to board the buses, it was almost a relief (00:20:01:00) Once Kiekintveld and the other soldiers in his cubicle finally did leave for Vietnam, they flew aboard a chartered civilian aircraft (00:20:11:00)  The flight over to Vietnam stopped in Hawaii to refuel; when in Hawaii, the soldiers got off the aircraft and went into a warehouse while the ground crew refueled the plane (00:20:22:00) Vietnam (00:20:44:00)  Kiekintveld believes he arrived in Vietnam at Cam Ranh Bay but he is not exactly sure (00:20:44:00) o Kiekintveld remembers that when the aircraft arrived, the soldiers hurried off and boarded buses with steel meshing over the windows to stop grenades from coming into the bus (00:20:56:00) o Kiekintveld remembers that it was nighttime when the aircraft arrived in Vietnam and when they opened the doors, the heat and the smell just overwhelmed the soldiers (00:21:18:00) o Kiekintveld and the other soldiers spent the night on the base and the next morning gathered in formation and received assignments to their new units (00:21:41:00)  Kiekintveld was assigned to the 101st Airborne Division, so he and the other soldiers who were assigned to the division were taken to a division training area near Cam Ranh Bay (00:21:51:00)  Kiekintveld and the other soldiers spent two weeks at the training area where they received additional training as well as their jungle fatigues and their weapons (00:22:11:00)  Kiekintveld remembers that at one point during the training, he and some other soldiers were on a large bridge over what the soldiers noticed was a dry riverbed; it started raining soon after and when the soldiers later crossed over the bridge again, there was about three feet of water covering the bridge (00:22:24:00) �  The bridge had been built on a floodplain and as the soldiers crossed back over, Kiekintveld was carrying his wallet and camera in his pants pockets and they were both ruined (00:22:45:00)  At this time, Kiekintveld only knew that he was being assigned to the 101st Airborne (00:23:09:00) o After the two weeks of additional training, the Army assigned Kiekintveld to the 326th Engineer Battalion (00:23:14:00)  The additional training consisted of the soldiers learning about enemy tripwires and booby traps, training for when they encountered ambushes, and several other types of tactical training (00:23:36:00)  Kiekintveld had received some tactical training while at Fort Leonard Wood but because he had been an engineer, he did not have all the infantry training (00:23:53:00)  However, once in Vietnam, everyone received a refresher course in the infantry tactical training, regardless of whether the soldier was infantry or not (00:24:13:00)  Looking back, the course did quite a bit of good for Kiekintveld (00:24:30:00)  Kiekintveld remembers that when the soldiers were called to formation at the end of the training and he was assigned to the 326th Engineers, a couple of other soldiers who he had been with at Fort Leonard Wood were assigned to a mortar company and an infantry company (00:24:38:00)  When the soldiers complained that they had been trained as engineers, the instructors said that they needed mortarmen and infantrymen (00:24:57:00)  Once a soldier was in country, his AIT did not really mean anything because the Army placed soldiers where they needed soldiers (00:25:07:00) After receiving his assignment, Kiekintveld first reported to the battalion headquarters and as assigned to “B” Company, so he reported to the B Company headquarters at Camp Evans (00:25:21:00) o After spending a couple of days at Camp Evans, Kiekintveld went into the A Shau Valley to join his platoon, where his platoon leader assigned him to be a demolition man (00:25:31:00) o When Kiekintveld said he only had a couple of hours training as a demolition man, the platoon leader said Kiekintveld was going to learn (00:25:41:00) o Kiekintveld reached the battalion headquarters onboard a deuce-and-a-half truck that was part of a larger convoy traveling from Cam Ranh Bay to the camp; the distance between the two camps was so long that the convoy ended up having to stop overnight (00:26:09:00) o Kiekintveld did not actually receive his weapon until he joined up with B company in the field (00:27:10:00) o To actually join B company, Kiekintveld flew out aboard a resupply helicopter flying out to the company, which was stationed on Firebase Rendezvous, although when Kiekintveld arrived at Rendezvous, the firebase was being taken apart because monsoon season had been fast approaching (00:27:22:00) �  When he flew over the mountains and into the A Shau to reach Rendezvous, Kiekintveld thought it was a beautiful place, apart from the bomb craters caused by the B-52 strikes (00:28:17:00)  Rendezvous had been built on a flat area located between a couple of mountains that American forces also occupied (00:29:01:00)  Kiekintveld remembers that one of the tanks being pulled out of the A Shau ended up getting stuck in the mud up to its turret, so that was when Kiekintveld learned how to blow up a tank (00:29:41:00)  Other engineers had built a dam near Rendezvous and as the American forces pulled back, the commanders wanted the dam destroyed, so Kiekintveld received orders to blow the dam up (00:30:11:00) o Kiekintveld arrived in Vietnam towards the middle of August and joined his company around Sept. 1st (00:30:31:00) o For the most part, during the dismantling of Rendezvous, the enemy left Kiekintveld and the other engineers alone (00:30:55:00)  During the last couple of days, most of the other personnel were off the firebase, which meant Kiekintveld and the remaining forces had to work during the day then stay up at night to provide guard duty; during a fortyeight hour period, none of the soldiers on the firebase received any sleep (00:30:57:00)  The first day was not so bad but by the second day, the soldiers were wondering if they would be able to work, then pull a twohour guard duty that night (00:31:11:00)  Kiekintveld and another soldier ended up spending the entire night in a foxhole talking back and forth to keep each other awake (00:31:22:00)  Kiekintveld and the other engineers were the last ones to leave the firebase, along with the remaining contingent of infantry (00:31:53:00) After leaving Rendezvous, Kiekintveld and the other engineers returned to base camp for a brief period before deploying to other positions (00:32:04:00) o Kiekintveld was stationed on numerous firebases and helped build numerous other firebases (00:32:13:00) o During the monsoons, the engineers did “life-saving missions”, which involved going into an area and creating a two-helicopter sized LZ (landing zone) for damaged helicopters or troops needing to be picked up (00:32:20:00) o When creating an LZ, the engineers normally had aircraft bomb two or three different hilltops before actually going into the area (00:33:01:00)  Once the engineers finally did go into the area, they would make one or two false entrances in order to spook the enemy before making their real entrance (00:33:21:00)  With the bombings, the initial LZ was large enough to fit a single helicopter (00:33:29:00)  Once on the ground, the engineers would set demolition charges on the trees that the bombings had blown down and any others around the LZ to expand the entire LZ (00:33:35:00) �  Kiekintveld normally tried to create an LZ that could accommodate three or four helicopters because during a combat assault, the more helicopters that could land at an LZ meant more soldiers on the ground at one time (00:33:44:00)  Eventually, Kiekintveld commanded a three-man demolition team and they would often work independently of the other engineers in clearing an LZ (00:34:14:00)  Normally, the initial assault on a location for an LZ consisted of the engineers‟ helicopter plus an additional two helicopters of infantry to be used as support and security while the engineers finished setting up the charges around the LZ (00:34:35:00) o There were a couple incidents where the engineers came under fire while going into an LZ; however, it was often not critical that an LZ be made in a certain location, so the helicopters would simply pull out if they were under fire and go to another area that was prepped (00:34:55:00)  Sometimes, the enemy waited until the engineers were actually on the ground before attacking (00:35:18:00) o However, the engineers always had Cobra gunships circling overhead while they worked to provide support, as well as jet fighters on stand-by (00:35:23:00) For the most part, Kiekintveld and his demolition team operated out of Camp Evans and worked largely with the 1st Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment, which supplied the infantry forces to protect Kiekintveld and his team when they were building the firebases (00:36:03:00) o Camp Evans was a fairly good-sized base and Kiekintveld remembers that once inside the main gate, to the right was a heavy engineer unit and then Kiekintveld‟s unit, with the helicopter area behind them (00:36:30:00)  A civilian engineering company was located on the base and they worked to supply the power and water to the base (00:37:08:00)  While at the base, Kiekintveld and the other engineers slept in Army cots covered in mosquito netting inside a hooch; the walls of the hooch were partially plywood, with the remaining top being screen with black rubber on the inside that the engineers rolled down at night (00:37:43:00)  Outside the hooch were fifty-five gallon barrels filled with sand so that if a mortar round struck near the hooch, the barrels would catch any of the shrapnel (00:38:14:00)  Between each hooch was a bunker where the engineers could go in the event of an enemy mortar or artillery strike (00:38:32:00)  Kiekintveld‟s hooch was divided into two rooms; one room was reserved for the squad leader and the assistant squad leader (00:38:38:00)  During the monsoons, Kiekintveld and the other engineers did some work for the SeaBees, building a rappelling tower so the SeaBees could keep in shape (00:38:46:00)  Kiekintveld and the other engineers ate with the SeaBees when they worked with them and noticed that the Navy food was markedly better than the Army food (00:39:06:00) � o Towards the end of the construction of the rappelling tower, Kiekintveld and the others managed to get hold of a Navy uniform, so they took one of the SeaBees‟ deuce-and-a-halfs and loaded it with cot mattresses (00:39:20:00) o The engineers painted their company insignia and numbers out the truck, so the SeaBees never found out who had taken the truck or the cot mattresses (00:39:49:00) o Eventually, the company commander came in for an inspection, so the engineers had to drive the truck to another part of the base so they would not get into trouble for having an extra truck (00:40:02:00)  Kiekintveld‟s company had its own club where the engineers could drink beer and on the outside was a blank plywood wall where they were able to show movies (00:40:32:00)  Kiekintveld remembers that one of the movies they watched was John Wayne‟s Vietnam film “the Green Berets” and everyone laughed at it (00:40:45:00)  The seats for the movies were helicopter blades that had been too damaged to be re-used on a helicopter and were placed on cement blocks (00:40:54:00)  Enemy mortar and rocket attacks were a common occurrence while Kiekintveld was stationed on the base (00:41:15:00)  The base had a radar system intended to sound a warning before the mortar rounds hit but to Kiekintveld, it seemed like the mortar rounds usually hit before the sirens went of (00:41:20:00)  For the most part, the mortar and rocket strikes did not phase Kiekintveld too much; if the rounds started to get closer to where Kiekintveld was, then he became a little more nervous, but not too much (00:41:42:00)  From what Kiekintveld could tell, the attacks were targeting the flight line and the helicopters, which meant the helicopter unit stationed behind the engineers tended to get attacked more than the engineers did (00:41:57:00)  The mortar and rocket attacks often did not do too much damage, although one time, Camp Eagle was hit and the engineers had to go in and help re-organize and repair the base (00:42:21:00)  There were a handful of Vietnamese civilians working on Camp Evans, mostly in the PX and as barbers (00:42:52:00) Kiekintveld himself did not spend too much time in Camp Evans, preferring to spend time in the field (00:43:02:00) Firebase Ripcord / End of Tour (00:43:18:00) � The monsoons lasted for a couple of months and once they ended, Kiekintveld and the other engineers began taking part in numerous operations, including Republic Square and Texas Star, which Firebase Ripcord was a part of (00:43:18:00) o Once the monsoons ended, American forces tried to push back into the A Shau Valley but they never made it; instead, they had their butts kicked by the enemy forces in the valley (00:43:53:00)  American forces would make a combat assault into an area but would have to pull out after only a day because many times, they were overrun by the sheer numbers of enemy personnel (00:44:41:00) o The fighting around Firebase Ripcord represented the last major involvement that the 101st Airborne had in the area and that battle ended up dragging into an extremely long campaign (00:44:56:00)  Kiekintveld himself spent time on Ripcord itself and on several smaller firebases that surrounded the main firebase (00:45:28:00)  Here again, Kiekintveld and the other engineers spent much of their time building additional firebases using the previous method of having fighters bomb the intended area where they would then build the firebase (00:45:41:00)  The first thing the engineers would do once they were on an LZ would be blowing any remaining trees off the hilltop and hopefully, by the afternoon, they would be able to bring artillery onto the firebase (00:45:57:00) o As the artillery would be coming in, the engineers would still be placing charges on the trees surrounding the firebase to blow them out as well (00:46:12:00) o Sometimes, the engineers worked for several days blowing trees out of the different fields of fire for the firebase, eventually clearing a one- or two-hundred yard expanse around the firebase (00:46:25:00)  Once the trees were taken care of, the engineers would focus on helping set up the perimeter defenses for the firebase (00:46:40:00)  For the first couple of days, the only protection and shelter the engineers had were foxholes with a tarp occasionally stretched over the top (00:46:48:00)  Off and on, the engineers would come under enemy mortar attacks while they were working, so the engineers would try to make it to a foxhole for protection (00:47:06:00) o Some of the hills where the firebases were made were very rocky, making it difficult to dig a foxhole, so the engineers used shaped-charges and cratering rounds to create the foxholes (00:47:26:00) o The 101st did a combat assault against Ripcord in March but were thrown off and made another assault on April 1st, although it too was unsuccessful (00:48:53:00)  During the second assault, Kiekintveld‟s best friend ended up being killed (00:49:06:00) � o o o At the time of the second assault, Kiekintveld was working on a smaller firebase nearby, Firebase Gladiator, which had artillery positioned on it meant to support Ripcord (00:49:07:00)  Kiekintveld and the other soldiers in Gladiator could see the smoke from the enemy rounds on Ripcord during the second assault on April 1st (00:49:18:00)  Once they began hearing the sounds of the fighting at Ripcord, Kiekintveld and the others stopped to listen to the radio chatter and casualty reports from Ripcord (00:49:46:00) A third combat assault was made against Ripcord in May and Kiekintveld took part in that assault (00:49:57:00)  The third assault was fairly successful and was when the engineers actually began building Ripcord (00:50:04:00)  Kiekintveld helped make the foxholes before a bulldozer was brought in to build bunkers and gun pits for the artillery, which originally just sat on top of the mountain (00:50:13:00)  The bunkers normally consisted over several layers of sandbags as protection and often, three or four bunkers were interlocked and connected (00:51:17:00)  The bunkers were well put together and could protect the occupants from about anything the enemy fired at them (00:51:37:00) o It took a lot to actually destroy the bunkers whenever the Americans pulled off a firebase (00:52:17:00) While Kiekintveld was stationed on Gladiator, the enemy launched a ground assault and while Kiekintveld was stationed on another firebase, the Americans had to call in the “Puff the Magic Dragon” gunship (00:52:54:00)  Puff was a AC-130 aircraft that had two miniguns mounted onboard that fired several thousands rounds per minute as the aircraft circled the firebase, laying down a continuous stream of gunfire (00:53:10:00)  The aircraft also dropped flares that burned brighter than normal sunlight (00:53:43:00)  It was terrifying to watch the tracer rounds, which looked like a constant stream of light going from the aircraft to the ground (00:54:16:00) Another time, a B-52 strike was called on a nearby location and all the soldiers were told to hunker down in their foxholes, although many disregarded the order (00:54:54:00)  Kiekintveld and some other soldiers were sitting on the side of the hill when they began to feel the ground shake; also of the sudden, they heard a “thunk” sound and looking down, they saw a piece of shrapnel eight to nine inches long between them into the mountain (00:55:07:00)  Needless to say, all the soldiers got into their respective foxholes (00:55:33:00)  One of the soldiers had never drunk or smoked before then but after the shrapnel, the other soldiers could not get him to stop; Kiekintveld was � scared but he had never seen someone shake so bad in his life (00:55:37:00) o Kiekintveld himself only ever saw dead enemy soldiers; whenever the enemy attacked at night, the only thing Kiekintveld could see were the muzzle flashes from the enemy weapons (00:56:45:00)  Because of their location, Kiekintveld and the other engineers only dealt with NVA (North Vietnamese Army) forces, never with the VC (Viet Cong) (00:57:01:00)  Often, attacks at night involved enemy sappers, who sometimes were almost naked when they attacked the firebase (00:57:15:00)  To slow the enemy attacks, the engineers placed tanglefoot all along the side of the mountain; tanglefoot was twisted barbed wire placed several inches off the ground with trip flares mixed in (00:57:23:00)  However, at one point, an enemy sapper who had surrendered showed how he and the other sappers could crawl underneath the wire using bamboo sticks as props (00:57:49:00) As his tour continued, the only real change that Kiekintveld noticed about himself was that he started counting the days until he could go home (00:59:01:00) o Kiekintveld did not care about the people or why the Americans were in Vietnam; he just wanted to go home (00:59:10:00) o While he was in Vietnam, Kiekintveld honestly did not think that he was going to make it home for several reasons (00:59:20:00)  The largest reason was because of the work he had to do; he had several close encounters with explosives, including the single time he ever used a timed fuse (00:59:24:00)  At other times, Kiekintveld carried an M-60 machine gun and machine gunners were one of the first people that enemy soldiers liked to shoot at (00:59:36:00)  When he was using the timed fuse, Kiekintveld and his team were clearing an LZ and although they normally used detonation cord and an electric blasting cap to set off the explosives, at this LZ, all they had were timed fuses (01:00:27:00) o With the timed fuse, Kiekintveld first cut a chunk off and lit it with his lighter to gauge the burn time (01:00:45:00) o Once he had everything figured out, he readied explosives to detonate after three or four minutes; however, ten minutes went by and nothing happened (01:01:04:00) o Half an hour went by and Kiekintveld was just getting out from under his cover to check the fuse when the explosives finally went off (01:01:09:00) o Kiekintveld was injured once while working on building a firebase after someone accidentally fell while carrying a roll of concertina wire that rolled down to hill (01:01:56:00)  When the roll hit Kiekintveld, it broke his nose and cut him up to the point that he was in the medical center for several days (01:02:13:00) � o o o o o While on stationed on Ripcord, Kiekintveld was once blown into a foxhole and another time, he does not know how it happened but he was standing in a foxhole when a good-sized rock hit him in his right hip (01:02:41:00)  Being 21 years-old, Kiekintveld thought he could just walk the pain off and be black and blue for a couple of days; however, as he got older, Kiekintveld has had trouble with his right hip (01:02:57:00)  The blasting from the explosions ruined Kiekintveld‟s hearing to the point that he has needed to use hearing aids since 2005 (01:03:21:00) The process of rotating soldiers in an out of units did not work for Kiekintveld; he was in the field until one or two days before he returned home (01:04:12:00)  The company First Sergeant was an African-American and whenever another African-American soldier joined the company, the First Sergeant assigned the soldier jobs in the rear area (01:04:24:00)  When the Army offered Kiekintveld an early out if he would stay in the field for an additional two weeks to teach the replacement soldiers, Kiekintveld said “no” (01:04:36:00)  Instead, Kiekintveld did his six months of stateside duty, although it was extremely boring (01:04:54:00) When Kiekintveld first joined his unit, some of the older soldiers taught Kiekintveld what he needed to do (01:05:03:00)  For the most part, Kiekintveld usually worked with the same two soldiers as part of a three-man team clearing LZs (01:05:11:00)  When the engineers needed to clear firebases was when they joined together into larger squads and platoons (01:05:29:00)  However, even in the larger groups, Kiekintveld remained incharge of doing the demolition work (01:05:35:00) For the most part, Kiekintveld hung out with the other soldiers in his sections, although the section often hung with a group of infantry soldiers and a bond grew between the two smaller groups (01:06:03:00)  At one point, Kiekintveld volunteered to go on a night ambush with the group of infantry; Kiekintveld almost did go on the ambush but his platoon leader was on the firebase at the same time and he stopped Kiekintveld from going (01:06:26:00)  As one of Kiekintveld‟s friends became short-timed, the friend did not have any field experience, having served as a jeep driver, and although Kiekintveld tried to talk him out of it, the friend was part of the combat assault against Ripcord on April 1st; for years, Kiekintveld has had survivor‟s guilt but has slowly overcome it (01:06:54:00)  Kiekintveld and the other soldier were very good friends, with the other soldier having clean clothes and cold beer waiting for Kiekintveld whenever he came out of the field (01:08:01:00) Morale amongst the soldiers in Kiekintveld‟s unit was pretty good, with almost all of the soldiers getting along with one another (01:08:25:00) Doing the job and doing the job right were very important to Kiekintveld and he made sure that the others did the job right as well (01:08:40:00) �    Kiekintveld would tell the soldiers which trees needed to come down and if the tree did not come down after the explosion, then the soldier who set the charge was given an axe to finish the job (01:08:49:00)  There were soldiers who did not want to do the work but if they chose not to work, then there were consequences (01:09:30:00)  Most of the soldiers would adapt and Kiekintveld would not allow drugs or alcohol in the field (01:09:48:00)  As far as Kiekintveld knows, there were not any drugs harder than marijuana being used by soldiers on the base (01:10:49:00) o Towards the end of Kiekintveld‟s tour, he began to notice more racial tension amongst the soldiers (01:11:35:00)  Most of the tension resulted from the newly-arrived soldiers, who were carrying over the sentiments prevalent back in the United States at the time; Kiekintveld himself did not know too much about what was going on back home (01:11:45:00) o Where Kiekintveld and his men were stationed, they never received any news about what was happening in the United States (01:12:23:00)  Camp Evans sort of felt like a “no-man‟s-land”, with the camp receiving what seemed like everyone else‟s leftovers (01:12:54:00) When he was stationed in the rear area, Kiekintveld had the opportunity to go to a Bob Hope show (01:13:47:00) o One day, Kiekintveld was sitting around when someone told him to board a deuce-and-a-half to go to Camp Eagle but did not say why (01:13:56:00) o Once Kiekintveld was at Camp Eagle, he and the other soldiers sat in a specially built rotunda, where the was a sign that said “Bob Hope” (01:14:01:00) o Kiekintveld and the other men from his company ended up sitting quite far back but one of the men received permission to go up to the front rows in order to take pictures of Bob Hope (01:14:21:00) Twice, while his unit was on stand-down, Kiekintveld was able to watch Filipino rock bands that had been brought in as entertainment (01:14:50:00) o The first time, Kiekintveld‟s company had been in the field for sixty days, which was a long time, to the point that uniforms were rotting off soldiers‟ backs, and when they landed back in the company area, the company commander, having seen the condition they were in, sent them to the rest area at Eagle Beach (01:14:57:00)  By the time the soldiers arrived at Eagle Beach, someone had arranged for clean clothes and all the soldiers were allowed to take showers (01:15:28:00) o Later, Kiekintveld had another opportunity to go to Eagle Beach as part of another stand-down (01:15:34:00) o While at Eagle Beach, the soldiers could attend USO shows involving the Filipino bands, although they could not understand what the bands were singing; for the most part, the soldiers were drunk the entire time they were there (01:15:40:00) Towards the end of his tour, Kiekintveld went on an R&R (Rest and Recuperation) to Thailand (01:15:57:00) �o   Initially, Kiekintveld had an R&R scheduled to go to Hawaii to visit his parents and fiancée but that trip was canceled (01:16:05:00) o After the scrubbed R&R, Kiekintveld decided he was not going to take one; the fighting was so intense that if he could get out and go somewhere, if even for a week, Kiekintveld decided he would take the R&R (01:16:13:00) o Getting away for the week did not really help Kiekintveld because he still came back to the same stuff that was happening when he left (01:16:54:00) The fighting to retake the A Shau Valley was extremely intense during 1970; no matter where the soldiers turned, it always seemed like it was three or four companies on a firebase surrounded by around five enemy battalions (01:17:05:00) o Kiekintveld believes that the removal of the 1st Marine Division further exacerbated the problem because the division‟s withdrawal spread the remaining forces even thinner (01:17:49:00) o Most of the soldiers knew that the enemy vastly outnumbered them and for the most part, the odds were stacked in the enemy‟s favor (01:18:34:00)  Word would spread around a firebase that the enemy might outnumber the soldiers as much as fifty to one (01:18:37:00) o Building the firebases was almost more dangerous than actually serving on a finished firebase because while Kiekintveld and the other engineers were building a firebase, the only protection they had were fields of fire; there was not any barbed wire or perimeter defenses around the firebase (01:18:53:00) Kiekintveld‟s primary method of communication with people back home was in the form of letters, although he did do a cassette recording one time, after which he vowed never to do that again (01:19:24:00) o With a letter, Kiekintveld could read the letter, then burn it and be done with it; when he listened to the cassette tape, Kiekintveld heard the voices from back home, which made him homesick and it took him days to get over the feeling (01:19:44:00)  Kiekintveld does not understand how soldiers today are able to do it, being able to get on a computer and talk with their families or make a telephone call to their families (01:20:05:00) o Kiekintveld did receive some care packages from home, with his mother sending cookies and candy (01:20:44:00)  However, Kiekintveld did not eat a lot of candy, so when the packages did arrive, he often shared them with the rest of the soldiers (01:20:52:00)  Kiekintveld‟s mother also sent grape-flavored Kool-Aid for the water and WD-40 to help clean Kiekintveld‟s rifle (01:21:05:00) o In his letters home, Kiekintveld tended to generalize his experiences and did not say too much about what was actually going on; in their letters, Kiekintveld‟s family would talk about home and what was going on there (01:22:32:00) o At one point, Kiekintveld received a letter with a newspaper clipping saying that an old high school friend had been killed in the fighting (01:22:03:00)  Kiekintveld did not even know the friend was serving in the military and for several days after he received the letter with the newspaper clipping, Kiekintveld was in a very foul mood (01:22:11:00) �     Because he and the other soldiers did not receive a lot of news based on where they were stationed, Kiekintveld did not know there was a large anti-war movement going on in the United States (01:22:37:00) Periodically, Kiekintveld and the other engineers would be called in to recover downed helicopters (01:24:03:00) o Depending on the situation, during some of the recoveries, the engineers attached the remains of the downed helicopter to another helicopter to be pulled out; other times, the engineers had to destroy the remains of the helicopter (01:24:21:00) Kiekintveld‟s impression of the helicopter pilots and crews were that they were a crazy group of people; the crews did numerous pieces of remarkable flying, both in flying the soldiers in and out of areas using Hueys and Chinooks and in providing support to the soldiers using Cobras (01:24:38:00) o Without the helicopter pilots and crews, Kiekintveld and the other soldiers would not be around (01:25:26:00) Most of the officers in Kiekintveld‟s unit were decent; a couple of the officers were shake „n bake or ROTC and they tended to do most everything by the book, even if that method was not always the safest (01:26:52:00) o However, there was one officer about whom Kiekintveld himself sent in paperwork accusing the officer of desertion (01:27:19:00)  Kiekintveld‟s unit was going into a hot LZ and the officer refused to get off the helicopter (01:27:27:00)  Once the fighting ended, Kiekintveld got onto the radio and requested desertion paperwork for the officer (01:27:36:00)  When Kiekintveld got back to the company, the officer was not around, which Kiekintveld took as a sign, although he does not know exactly what happened (01:27:45:00) o During his tour, Kiekintveld had two company commanders and two platoon leaders (01:28:01:00) o If anything, Kiekintveld spent more time working with the officers commanding the various infantry units than with the officers from his own unit (01:28:54:00) Keeping a “short-timers” calendar was not allowed in Kiekintveld‟s unit, although Kiekintveld does not understand why (01:29:11:00) o However, because Kiekintveld had his own room, he was able to keep a secret calendar for himself (01:29:19:00) o As he became a short-timer, Kiekintveld continued doing the same things he had previously done; Kiekintveld knew he was getting close to the end of his tour but he did not actively count the days until the tour ended (01:29:44:00) Post-Vietnam Military Service / Post-Military Life (01:30:01:00)  Once the time actually came for Kiekintveld to leave, he was sent to the rear area, where he turned in all his equipment and weapon and picked up the necessary paperwork (01:30:01:00) o The initial route took Kiekintveld from Bein Ouit to another chartered civilian aircraft for the flight back to the United States (01:30:24:00) �o    During the flight, once the announcement was made that the aircraft was no longer in Vietnamese airspace, all the soldiers yelled and cheered (01:30:49:00) o Kiekintveld slept for most of the flight back to the United States (01:30:59:00) o While Kiekintveld and the other soldiers were loading onto the aircraft to go home, they saw another aircraft arrive carrying fresh soldiers (01:31:06:00) The flight back from Vietnam landed in Oakland, where Kiekintveld processed out and received a free meal, what ever he wanted to eat (01:31:31:00) o Kiekintveld ordered a steak dinner but it stayed in him for all of ten minutes; his body was not used to that rich of food (01:31:45:00) o When the flight landed, all the soldiers were allowed to take showers and were given clean clothes; while the soldiers ate their meals, their dress uniforms were tailored with their individual patches (01:32:05:00) o Kiekintveld remembers walking down a hallway at the airport and it was almost like he had the plague, because people would walk around him; Kiekintveld and the other soldiers did not receive any verbal taunts (01:32:39:00) o On the flight from California, Kiekintveld initially wanted to fly to Grand Rapids, Michigan but could not, so he ended up flying first to Wisconsin then on to Muskegon, Michigan (01:33:01:00)  During one of the flights, was a couple was sitting on one side of the aisle and their young son was next to Kiekintveld on the other (01:33:29:00)  The couple talked to the stewardess and Kiekintveld was escorted to a seat in the back of the plane because the couple did not want their son sitting next to him (01:33:37:00)  Kiekintveld sat in the back of the plane by himself but the stewardess had small bottles of whisky on the beverage cart and told Kiekintveld to help himself (01:33:47:00) Kiekintveld had a very short leave to be at home before having to finish out his enlistment and during the leave, he married his fiancée (01:34:12:00) When he reported back to the Army, Kiekintveld went to Fort Belvoir, Virginia, where his entire company consisted of Vietnam veterans and they all received training in riot control (01:34:44:00) o Apart from the riot control training, Kiekintveld was sent to work in a small carpenter shop on the base (01:35:01:00) o Kiekintveld lived off-base and one night, he and his company were called onto the base and told to get into formation, where the soldiers were assigned their weapons (01:35:23:00)  The soldiers were told that they were going to Washington D.C. because the Black Panthers were in the city and government officials were worried about the possibilities of riots (01:35:34:00)  The soldiers asked where the ammunition was for their weapons and were told that they did not get any (01:35:43:00)  The whole company dropped their rifles of the ground and said that they were not going and when the officers threatened to court martiial them, Kiekintveld pointed out how bad it would look if they court-martialed an entire company (01:35:50:00) �    All the soldiers were Vietnam veterans and they refused to die in the streets of Washington D.C. with an empty rifle (01:36:06:00)  Instead of issuing ammunition to the soldiers, the officers sent the entire company home (01:36:13:00) o Kiekintveld‟s wife was able to live with him and they rented a small mobile home that actually cost more than Kiekintveld made in an entire month; therefore, it was good that the couple had some money stored away (01:36:36:00) Kiekintveld finally left the military in Spring 1971 (01:37:33:00) o After he left the military, Kiekintveld was unemployed for a while before his father got him a part-time job working in the post office (01:37:35:00) o Eventually, Kiekintveld found a full-time job working in construction, building houses, where he stayed for twenty years (01:38:01:00) Around 2002/2003, doctors diagnosed Kiekintveld with having PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder) after Kiekintveld began having problems with nightmares and flashbacks to Vietnam (01:39:01:00) o Kiekintveld then began traveling to Grand Rapids to consult a psychiatrist and to attend PTSD groups (01:39:10:00) o In 2004, Kiekintveld went to the north side of Chicago to attend a six-week, inhouse PTSD seminar; by 2005, Kiekintveld received full disability due to the effects of PTSD (01:39:15:00) o While Kiekintveld had been stationed at Fort Belvoir, the Army had not made any effort to provide assistance to Kiekintveld and the other soldiers who had mental struggles with their experiences (01:40:02:00)  Prior to his discharge, a doctor asked Kiekintveld if there were any physical problems; however, if Kiekintveld said there were, it meant he would have to stay for another six weeks so even if there had been, Kiekintveld would have lied, just so he could go home (01:40:09:00) o Once he returned home from his service, Kiekintveld did not say too much about having been in the service and having been to Vietnam (01:40:43:00)  Kiekintveld knew in his heart that there was something wrong inside but he feared saying anything out of fear that he would be locked up in a mental institution (01:40:51:00)  As the years went on, the situation stayed the same until all of sudden, Kiekintveld could no longer control it, which was when he began having the nightmares and flashbacks (01:41:23:00) o For two years, one of Kiekintveld‟s friends kept saying that Kiekintveld needed help and needed to talk with someone (01:42:32:00) Kiekintveld notices that with the soldiers returning home today, not only are the soldiers being welcomed home, but there is so much more information about PTSD that it is only a matter of getting the soldiers to ask for help (01:43:02:00) o Kiekintveld makes it a point of shaking the soldiers hands and point out that the VA is there for them (01:43:35:00) o Kiekintveld‟s philosophy is that if he can help one veteran, then he is doing his job; he had one veteran help him and he is continuing the assistance (01:43:55:00) �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KiekintveldtG1349V Title A name given to the resource Kiekintveld, Gregory (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kiekintveld, Gregory Description An account of the resource Greg Kiekintveld was born in Holland, Michigan in May 1949. After graduating from high school in 1968, he worked in construction until he was drafted into the Army in March, 1969. Following basic training at Fort Knox, Kentucky, the Army sent Kiekintveld to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri for advanced training to be a combat engineer. Once Kiekintveld completed the training at Fort Leonard Wood, Kiekintveld deployed to Vietnam and joined B Company, 326th Engineer Battalion, 101st Airborne Division. While with the 326th Engineers, Kiekintveld had two primary assignments. First, he oversaw a small team tasked with creating landing zones in advance of an assault by infantry from other units in the 101st Airborne. Second, as part of a larger unit, either platoon- or company-sized he helped with construction and demolition of hilltop firebases for the division. His unit was based at Camp Evans, and operated in the hills and valleys of the northern part of South Vietnam. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-03-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f90c93193a0f6d13fd3227ceedad0ff1.pdf 3debf9bcd8edd91082086a7c4ef991bd PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran's History Project Vietnam War Paul Kieda Total Time (00:11:19) Introduction (00:00:17)  Paul Kieda was born February 8th, 1949 (00:00:30) ◦ He served for the United States Maine Corps during the Vietnam War; his highest rank achieved was E4 or Corporal (00:00:43) ◦ Right before the war, Paul was in high school working part time at a gas station (00:00:55) ▪ Paul thought it was his duty to join the war effort; his grandfather served in WWI, his dad was in the Navy in WWII, and his uncle served in the Army in WWII (00:01:23) ▪ His younger brother went into the Marine Corps after he did (00:01:37)  Although Paul joined the Marine Corps, he still received his draft notice from the Army (00:01:54) Training Camp & Beyond (00:02:00)  Paul notes that boot camp was hard; he arrived in San Diego, California- after they got off the plane and onto the bus, the training had started harshly (00:02:21) ◦ The physical training was tough: push-ups, sit-ups, running everywhere, and if recruits did anything wrong it resulted in push-ups (00:03:16) ◦ (From (00:04:03- 00:05:16) Paul shows how some punishment was dealt out to recruits & explains quonset huts)) ▪ After California, Paul went to Camp Pendleton in San Diego, California for advanced infantry training (00:05:28)  After being sent to Memphis, Tennessee, he was sent to Lakehurst, New Jersey where he went to school for launch and recovery (00:05:52)  After New Jersey, Paul went to Beaufort, South Carolina; following South Carolina, Paul volunteered for service in Vietnam (00:06:27)  After being sent to Okinawa, Paul mentions half the crew went to Japan and the other half went to Vietnam- unhappily, he was sent to Japan in 1968 (00:06:44) ◦ While in Japan pilots were trained, aircrafts were launched, additional training as well (00:07:39) ◦ Paul communicated with letters, commenting that they don't have like they do now as far as communication goes (00:07:53) ▪ He remembers the Red Cross calling when him and his wife had their first child; that was their only phone call in 15 months (00:08:11) Coming Home (00:08:15)  Paul notes that the veterans back then were not as popular as they were today; he saw a sign that said “dogs and servicemen keep off the grass” (00:08:38) ◦ He came back during the middle of the night so protestors couldn't see him (00:08:47) ▪ Paul received 30 days leave once he got home; his daughter was six months old when he first seen her (00:09:24) ▪ He was assigned to El Toro, California; he bought a car and drove out there and got �▪ himself an apartment (00:09:42) He doesn't regret enlisting and was glad he went (00:09:50)  He was in a project through Ford Motor Company which tried to rehabilitate servicemen to civilian life; he worked part-time everyday in a body shop (00:10:20)  Paul was back at home in Michigan when the war ended; he felt really sorry for the guys who were in the war then (00:11:05) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KiedaP1513V Title A name given to the resource Kieda, Paul (Interview outline), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kieda, Paul Description An account of the resource Paul Kieda was born in 1949 and enlisted in the Marine Corps after high school. He trained as an aircraft mechanic and volunteered for Vietnam, but was assigned to Okinawa instead. Here he serviced aircraft used for training as well as combat missions. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fennema, Lauren (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-05-26 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7bc92d384b2ae6f129e4889d2b61b059.mp4 4a13c7164c4374f08a50cf7f4e0e879e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d9c88bb92f0e9027f4e0dc6624229216.pdf ea32e3044767623375a3d1a6ec0eeb17 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Tim Kidd (00:28:16) (00:25) Background Information • • • • • Tim was born in Michigan on August 20, 1951 He grew up in a close knit family His parents were from Ohio and his father’s family have immigrated to the US from Ireland in 1746 Tim went to school at John Hill elementary and graduated from Hill high school in 1970 He was involved in the choir and played many instruments (5:40) Life After High School • • • Tim had attempted to join the Air Force, Marines, and the Army He was drafted into the Army and graduated from basic training at Fort Knox, Tennessee in July of 1971 He traveled to California for supply training (7:20) Vietnam • • • • • Tim was sent to Vietnam in a plane and arrived in an area that, to him, looked just like another American military base He began working in security on tankers and ships, doing some supply work He had to watch the civilian population to prevent them from stealing any of their supplies He also did security work checking Korean convoys and a bit of guard duty Tim enjoyed his work in Vietnam, but could not stand the heat (11:50) The “Bad Boy Platoon” • Most of the men in this platoon had messed up in the field or got caught doing something wrong • Many of them became alcoholics and began using drugs • Tim was in this platoon, and while he did not get addicted to drugs, he did drink a lot more during his time in the platoon (13:15) Back to the US • Tim traveled back the US in an airplane in 1972 • He was sent to a fort in Texas and worked on testing new equipment before it was shipped out • Tim was completely done with his service in 1973 (14:20) The Nave • Tim was bored with civilian life and joined the Navy, expecting to have a military career �• • • • • He had a choice to take classes or directly board ship; he chose the latter He found this was a bad choice because he was on a ship for two years straight and often sea sick He witnessed many large storms near Cuba with 20 foot waves Tim made many great friends in the Navy He traveled to Saint Charles, Jamaica, Naples, Spain, Rome, the Vatican, and Guantanamo Bay (18:50) Finished with the Navy • Tim was finished in 1975 and was on unemployment for a year • He joined the Reserves and was part of the 309 Civil Affairs Unit in Michigan • He was then decommissioned and joined the 176th Support Unit until 1984 • Tim continued supply training while in the Reserves (24:08) After the Reserves • Tim had diabetes, which kept him from working often and he retired in 1991 • He is now living in the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KiddT Title A name given to the resource Kidd, Timothy A. (Interview outline and video), 2006 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kidd, Timothy A. Description An account of the resource Tim Kidd was born in Michigan on August 20, 1951 and graduated from high school in 1970. Shortly after graduating, Tim was drafted into the Army and went through basic training in Fort Knox, Tennessee. Tim then had supply training in California and was then shipped out to Vietnam. Tim did mostly security work in Vietnam, guarding ships and inspecting convoys. After Tim was discharged from the Army, he felt that he did not enjoy civilian life and joined the Navy. Tim spent time in the Reserves after the Navy, but had to retire in 1991 due to his class 1 diabetes. He now resides in the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army United States. Navy Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006-12-12 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/90d854782d167eb850b3912bbb23fb85.mp4 6b6a5800a886690db4eaa956bf80b6b6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aabbea770882776be2a33a25d37b1271.pdf 3acd7a32ac0a627023cd27dd90661ea4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Fred Kerkstra (00:35:10) (00:10) Background Information • • • • Fred was born in Byron Center, Michigan in 1923 and grew up on a farm Fred did not go to high school and began helping his father with the farm after grade school He heard the news of Pearl Harbor on the radio, but had not worried about getting drafted Fred was drafted into the Army in February of 1943 (2:30) Training • • • • • He was sent to Fort Custer in Battle Creek, MI and then told that he was going to be sent into the Army Air Corps, rather than the infantry, because they were short on gunners Fred traveled to Miami, Florida for basic training for three months He then went to Colorado for gunnery and armory training and then back to Florida for advanced training They went through training in planes, shooting at targets in B-25s and A-20s Fred was a tale-gunner and trained all together for 13 months (8:00) Leaving the United States • Fred was assigned to a plane crew of five other men; a pilot, co-pilot, bombardier, radio operator, turret gunner, and a tail gunner • They went to Hawaii for a few months and were not doing much work • They then went to Australia and continued to not do much • Fred enjoyed being in Australia and felt that the people were very nice (12:45) New Guinea • Fred was staying in a base near an airfield for three months and there were thunderstorms every day • On their missions they were mostly attacking Japanese planes and areas where ammunition was stored • Fred was hit only once out of the 40 missions he went on • They all flew for four months before the first plane was even hit (19:30) Moreton Island • Fred flew another ten missions near Indonesia and then took leave in Australia �• • • • • They were staying in tents in Luzon and attacking Chinese islands They had a crash landing in China during their last mission They crashed near a river bank and everyone was ok, but they were three hours away from the nearest America base The men stayed in a Chinese hotel and everyone was very nice to them It took them two weeks to get back to the base, then they flew in a B-29 back to Guam (27:50) The End of the War • Fred had enough points to stop flying missions and was sent back to the United States • He took leave for a month and then was sent to Santa Anna, California to start teaching classes, but never ended up doing so because the war had ended by the time he reached California �~. ����) ~.;/.c C:C?-o. 0-ey:;t0- --zf:.e /I/{/& ~1t'- <V.~- '-4~"",-_~ ~_l( )~j'-04"A~)-<' rt~~~:C2, /JL<.'L'1- ~j:[-i~,~'f~ ~f!~_ tttu> ~,~' i(;7~ ~~'C/£:~d?" r--yv-'~l P/(~V~ 7J--~­ '-'J-v~,~/' ~x- ~~~~~ ~r-n-,~~r ~,1-eJ ~.~ ~~ Vi/~/L ~/~'~ 4-d-~R ~t-cV''L/f!a--, {Lf~ L~1- ~ -it t2~~v."(f U~~;~ )~wrk ~ aJ!~ T;~ ~~~~~~~ d/_~{ ~ /gIl::v~~~ _2/~,,~ ~:&? ~/ ~_7,YrL.--st:tct/ G(, V\,~,\ ~ 4--~'-1- GL--4--- v r'-d/tf to-~~ ~:::~~'- /'\2-~'Y-.~'~""'~<--C:'<­ {r",.(,-~ ~~~V~-'-~~ ~) -Q.g-c.~u~-~ '~-~ O!--' ~Vl-- '/J-.J--~~(/K l.-v-O/J /~vC'Z-.,k-cf! ~v;t~ Cv ~,~ ;?k- ~ ~ ~- -v,'V 27:' e-{i~T ~~-c r--£;/~-r, ~~ ~T ~. .-~ .......~ 2-v ,-0U Ch"- /!~. 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'J =,-...--ti~ /f'~/k:'t( {~~d- o-~e-/~-cf0;,'~~, L-J'v'J /C/Vy\.-Gu C'-...G) -)-V'-e.. .-do-rJ-/vhro(f 'd-.--L.J!?£· ?or~. )".A.e.~ ~ f ~ ItYt-- ~-~ -3 -::l~c f~ '~.f<-' ~~;c:~ -I-; --''''''''<.-£2e, ~). .ci<-j(' ~ (reZ ~Ct:-- ~~ '.k Cu2-~~ o--c.~-, I ,.1 �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KerkstraF Title A name given to the resource Kerkstra, Fredrick (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kerkstra, Fredrick Description An account of the resource Fred Kerkstra was born in Byron Center, Michigan in 1923 and grew up on a farm. He was drafted in February of 1943 and sent to Fort Custer in Battle Creek, Michigan. At the time, the Army Air Corps was short on gunners and Fred and had been lucky enough to be transferred into the Air Corps. He trained for 13 months in Florida and Colorado and became a tail gunner on a B-25. Fred traveled to Hawaii, Australia, China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Luzon, New Guinea, Guadalcanal, and Formosa. Fred went on 40 missions altogether while in the Pacific. Personal narrative of military service is appended interview outline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Air Force World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-05-20 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a0cc1e11ea2893222ea0d7b6ecb83d2c.m4v eec562dd252015b365457b410ca3e280 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b5af20fccbf361a64743b3cf340e636b.pdf 7b237f9f629e1c23b23f1a05dd1948ee PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Rodney Kenyon (46:25)  Background (00:10)  Born July 27 1933 (00:20)  Served during the Korean War and achieved the rank of Seaman (00:24)  Born in Middleville, Michigan (00:33)  Attended Thornapple-Kellogg High School  June 1952, he enlisted in the navy after receiving draft notice for the army, even though he had previously been in the naval reserve (00:50)  He went to naval reserve center after receiving the draft notice for the army, and was placed into the navy (02:00)  Went into the navy because of a great love for the navy (02:15)  He was homesick while serving in the army (02:50)  He was determined to do the best he could (03:40)  He was trained in fire drills and sea-faring (04:05)  After training he was assigned to a destroyer flotilla in Newport, Rhode Island (05:00)  He had typing experience in high school which qualified him to be a radioman (05:30)  He spent all of his time deployed on the east coast of the United states (06:10)  He was assigned to many ships because the Admiral would change his flagship often to any boat in port, 21 ships in sixteen months (06:40)  Sometime he was assigned multiple times to different ships without leaving port  Experience in England (08:25)  Went to London the week after the coronation of the queen 1953 (08:35) � They would practice maneuvers between the US Navy and US Air Force and the British Navy, which included air shows (08:50)  They would communicate by air mail to family back home (10:20)  The mail usually took no longer than five days (11:05)  The food was fine (11:25)  Grew up with two brothers and one sister (11:35)  They had about five cooks on board a destroyer to feed 350 crewmen (12:20)  He got along well with the officers, didn’t spend a lot of time with the enlisted crew because he was a radio man. He became good friends with one of the captains (13:50)  Entertainment (16:35)  Letters from home (16:40)  Married on boot leave (16:45)  His mother wrote him often (16:55)  Gambling on ships, but he never got involved (17:35)  He and his wife were saving money to buy a home (18:00)  While on leave the USO would give away tickets to sports and shows (18:40)  Service ended, he couldn’t wait to get out (19:30)  He was in the navy for 22 months ten days and eight hours (19:45)  The last six months he was assigned to the deck crew because of his record for changing ships (21 ships in sixteen months) (20:05)  He was assigned to a liberty boat (20:35)  The liberty boat is a craft that holds thirty-five to forty sailors and goes back and forth from ship to shore transporting (20:45)  It took about twenty minutes to go from ship to shore and another twenty to get back (21:15)  One of his experiences on a liberty boat took place during an extremely foggy night (21:55) � The officer on deck hadn’t received word that all the launches were canceled (22:00)  He wasn’t able to see the launch so he approached his officer and requested a compass in case the boat got lost on the way to shore (22:40)  The officer refused and accused him of insubordination (23:15)  So he was sent off on the boat without a compass, forty-five minutes after being in the liberty boat without seeing land, Rodney Kenyon assumed command to direct it to land (25:15)  He went to the bow of the ship and used a pole to feel in the water for rocks and land (25:40)  After being at the bow for a while he heard automobiles in the distance and directed the ship in that direction (26:10)  They found land (26:10)  He organized the crew, five all together, and pulled the boat on shore (26:30)  They were faced with a cliff and heard automobile traffic at the top so he led them in scaling the cliff (27:30)  He flagged down a marine patrol car (28:00)  The marine patrol accused them of deserting (28:40)  The Marines brought them to Newport because they were unable to contact the sailors command ship (29:10)  The marines handcuffed the group of five to benches (located at the boat landing) for the night (30:00)  They were picked up the next morning by the officer who had refused to give him a compass the night before (30:20)  Scariest moment of his naval career (31:00)  Korean experience (31:20)  His Admiral asked him to sign over for another three months of service in order to serve near Korea (32:00)  He refused the offer (34:00) � After his service ended he spent a couple days with his wife and then went back to work at his family’s dealership (35:30)  He joined the American Legion (36:00)  He was denied from joining the VFW because he hadn’t fought over in Korea (36:20)  He joined up with the Caledonia American Legion, Middleville did not have a post at the time, and has been with them since (37:40)  Service and experience changed his life around (38:40)  After his service he appreciated his town of Middleville (40:00)  (40:10) end � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KenyonR Title A name given to the resource Kenyon, Rodney (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kenyon, Rodney Description An account of the resource Rodney Kenyon enlisted in the US Navy in 1952 to avoid being drafted into the army and sent to Korea. He was assigned to the commodore's staff in a destroyer flotilla based in Newport, Rhode Island. He followed his commander from ship to ship, and eventually served on 21 different vessels before being assigned to duty on the base at Newport. He made regular trips across the Atlantic, but never served in a combat zone. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kenyon, Shelby (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-05-25 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1616617b89c9a13ce391dd3222510876.mp4 be2e6d592399ac8445a2d1a4f5ba2e0b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4cc5a163c078eaf7627901f2ac03ef9e.pdf e5caaae6e6824bf131567d9a08fb347e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam War Dave Kenyon 45:39 Introduction (00:15)         Dave was born in Binghamton, New York on February 20, 1949. His father worked at a furniture manufacturing company and his mother worked for General Electric. They had four kids in the family, two brothers and one sister, and he was the second child. Dave graduated from high school in January 1967. After he graduated, he got a job at a flooring store working with carpet and ceramic. He was aware of Vietnam at the time, and he heard of people going there and being killed. His cousins were getting draft notices, but he did not watch much on the television. Dave received his own draft notice in 1968. He was given his physical and other testing there in Binghamton. (02:15) He doesn’t remember anyone trying hard to get out of military service while getting his physical. The physical was basic, mostly vitals. Dave was sent to Syracuse and flown to Fort Dix in March 1969. Training (03:09)           Basic training was conducted at Fort Dix. When he got there, they spent a couple of days for orientation which was when they were issued their uniforms and were checked into training. The first time they met their drill sergeant, he scared them all. Adjusting to military life was a little tough, especially waking up early and learning all the military discipline. Physical training, marching and weapons training were the main focuses of basic training. (04:30) Dave was in pretty good shape going in, so it did not bother him much. Most of the people in basic training with Dave were all from the east coast area. He also went in with his cousin. Most of the men were draftees. One red-headed sergeant that Dave remembers was a Vietnam veteran. Basic training lasted for 8 weeks, and then he was sent to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri for AIT (Advanced Infantry Training). Dave was training to be a combat engineer. (06:47) AIT was much tougher physically than basic training. It was also more challenging mentally because of the classes and new things he had to learn about being an engineer but also the infantry aspect of shooting rifles and throwing hand grenades. �       They trained on an M-14 but once they got to Vietnam they were all issued M-16s. Dave was one of three men to max the PT (Physical Training) test. The instructors were also good, with some of them being Vietnam vets themselves, especially the demolition instructors. They did not get much training on being in Vietnam, just specialty training on being an engineer. AIT was another 8 weeks followed by 10 days leave back home. (08:42) While home on leave, he was stopped by a police officer for speeding but when Dave told him he was going to Vietnam he was let go without a ticket. When he came back from leave they were sent to Oakland, California. They flew commercially to Hawaii for refueling then on to Okinawa. From there, they went directly to Vietnam and flew into Cam Ranh Bay. Vietnam (10:11)                Dave’s first impression of Vietnam was that it was hot and sticky. The men he saw that were going home were all smiling, and it made him wonder what he was getting into. Once they got in country, they had a few days of indoctrination before he was assigned to the 101st Airborne Division. He was attached to the 326th Engineer Battalion. They were flown on a C-130 to Camp Eagle. At Camp Eagle, they were issued more gear and then trucked up to Camp Evans. Dave was in B Company. And when he first got there, he was called a ‘cherry’ and a ‘rookie’ by the men who were already there. (12:46) They were in camp for a couple weeks before he was sent into the field. That time on base was spent conducting special training like rappelling and walking out of a Chinook Helicopter and other things that the 101st made all new members go through. Dave arrived in Vietnam in August 1969. To clear an LZ (Landing Zone), they were given chainsaws and they cut down all the trees, they then used explosives for other things. One time he remembers having to rappel out of a helicopter. (14:50) One mission that he went on they had to clear booby traps in some buildings. He caught some shrapnel in his arm on that mission. They also went mine sweeping on the roads and found a large amount of TNT and blew it in place. After it was blown, another unit would come in and fix the road. Dave’s unit was designated for demolition, clearing and building firebases. They ran concertina wire, set trip wires and claymores. At night they had to pull guard duty, but they were usually brought back to the rear as soon as they were done. (16:30) When Dave arrived at Camp Evans, he met one of his best friends from school, John Hulver, who fought at Hamburger Hill. When the monsoons were coming, they blew up a dam and Dave never saw so much mud in his life. This was done in the A Shau Valley, and nothing could be done during the monsoon season because of the poor weather. Dave never saw the enemy the whole time he was there. Camp Evans was his home base for the duration of his tour in Vietnam. (18:35) In December, they went on a mission up to the DMZ, but he was back for Christmas. �          While in the rear, he re-built the mess hall and built an NCO club. Dave was always busy and normally worked by himself. The mess hall put out some good meals while in the rear, and the only time he had to eat c-rations was when they were out in the field. Dave had seven men in his squad. They were often sent out on missions by squad and they worked for a variety of different battalions. (20:24) In the rear, whites hung out with whites and blacks hung out with blacks. Men were usually either a pothead or a boozer, but he did not see much racial tension or fights. Other than marijuana, Dave did not see any other drugs, nor did he partake of them. He did drink beer that could be bought at the PX or the NCO club. In the field, most men did not smoke pot or drink beer. (22:44) Dave went to Hue and the Perfume River, and while there he noticed that everything was Americanized. Everything the Vietnamese people had was from the United States. The impression that Dave had with the locals was that they didn’t want them there. At the time, he felt that he was in Vietnam because he was called by his country to serve; now he feels that it was all politics and big business. (24:22) In March, the monsoon season was over and they went out and started building firebases. Ripcord (24:45)          The next big event that happened was in April when Dave went up to Ripcord, they arrived on the 1st of April and they were hit that day. They landed at a hot LZ. When they landed, he noticed there was no foliage due to bombings and Agent Orange. They planned on placing artillery on the hill that was Firebase Ripcord. Dave spent all day there and was mortared continuously and when night fell they were forced off Ripcord and hiked through the jungle in the dark a mile or two away. (27:03) He was dropped off with Bravo Company 2/506th. Dave spent the night there and a lieutenant came around and asked for volunteers to go back up the hill and bring back some bodies of three men that had been killed the previous day. They were not shot at when they were extracting the bodies. (28:30) After a while, they were brought back to Camp Evans and the grunts they were with stayed out in the field. Ten days later, they went back up to Ripcord with Charlie Company. They used bulldozers to build bunkers and he worked there for 2-3 weeks. Dave used Bangalore torpedoes from World War II to build some of these bunkers. Lieutenant Smith was in charge of the engineers and he served as platoon leader. (30:21) They blew up lots of tree stumps and cleared fields of fire. For the artillery positions, they were leveled off by the bulldozers. Dave also filled sand bags for several days. When they were staying at Ripcord, they slept in foxholes and they had to pull guard duty at night too. They did not receive any additional attacks or incomings after the April 1st attack. After the base was completed, Dave was sent back to the rear and was later sent to another artillery unit and performed some tile work. (32:52) At that point, Dave did not have a sense of what was going on in the war around him and he did not read Stars and Stripes or listen to the radio. �           During the summer when Ripcord was getting hit, Dave was not aware of it because his squad had been pulled out. At Camp Evans, they would sometimes get a rocket or mortar attack, but nothing serious and always sporadic. (34:57) They did not have much fun, but he did go to Eagle Beach once. Dave did not go on R&R because he did not know if he would be able to go back to Vietnam. One man he knew extended for two months to get an early out and was later killed, so Dave said he would never do that. Contact with the states was limited to letters from his parents and his family. He asked his family to send him magazines and jiffy-pop. Other things could be purchased on base at Camp Evans. (36:38) The new officers did a lot of stupid things and didn’t have much common sense. Civilians did the men’s laundry and they had to keep up on military uniform regulations while in the rear. Dave mostly did what he was told to do so that he didn’t rock the boat, but some men refused to do things like rappelling from the tower or practice. (38:50) The unit kept getting replacements and the new guys were taught by the older guys that had been there for a while. Dave left Vietnam in August. He turned in his gear at Camp Evans, and when they arrived at [Camron Bay] he noticed a huge difference in the lights. When he got on the plane, they were happy to be going home but he didn’t notice any new guys coming in as he was leaving. (40:52) Back in the States (41:09)        Their plane landed at Fort Lewis, Washington and they stayed there for a day or two before going back to New York. Dave flew home in uniform but did not have any problems with protestors. He was just happy to be back in the world. When he arrived back home, he still had six months left in service. He was stationed at Fort Belvoir and worked as a training NCO. The only duty he had was to come up with a training schedule for the guys. He did not have to pull any guard duty and he was able to go home every weekend. They mentioned re-enlisting, but he never thought about it because he knew he would be back in Vietnam in a year or two. Dave was discharged in March 1971. He took a couple of weeks off and then got a job working for as a carpenter. (43:22) After his friend was killed, he never complained about anything. He did learn discipline while in the army and it made him a better person. He also gained more appreciation for the things he had back in the states. He never spoke to anyone about Vietnam, and he finally began to when others like him started coming out and speaking about their experiences. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KenyonD1543V Title A name given to the resource Kenyon, Dave (Interview outline and video), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kenyon, Dave Description An account of the resource Dave was born on February 20, 1949 in Binghamton, New York. He graduated from high school in 1967 and he received his draft notice in 1968. He was sent to Fort Dix for basic training and Fort Leonard Wood for AIT. Dave served as a combat engineer and was sent to Vietnam in August 1969. He was assigned to the 326th Engineer Battalion, 101st Division. As an engineer, Dave helped build firebases, including Ripcord. He made it back to the United States in August 1970 and was discharged from the army in March 1971. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-10-12 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/81c82b89621306f0c568f51d24ce9eeb.mp4 45c3555154446af7e9007dfbe6d4c18f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a3da94f295aaaad9793da700d5955682.pdf 06c6831ac15cf5c0f6614766f31f3236 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II John Kennaugh Total Time – (01:02:17) Background        He was born in Rockford, Illinois on March 4, 1923 (00:16) After three years, his family moved to Belvedere, Illinois o He lived there until 1935 (00:32) From Belvedere, his family then moved to Dixon, Illinois (00:42) o He grew up in Dixon, Illinois His family moved to Dixon because his father got a job at the Freeman Shoe Company (00:54) o His dad ended up deciding to go on his own and become an electrician There were two children in his family o He had a younger brother (01:14) He finished his schooling at Dixon High School in 1941 (01:23) After high school, he went to work with an engineering company doing land surveying Enlistment/Basic Training – (01:50)   While in Dixon, he was a part of the Illinois Reserve Militia – They took the place of the National Guard during the war (01:53) o He had access to the armory  He was playing basketball in the armory when he heard about Pearl Harbor (02:07) With the Illinois Reserve Militia he became a Drill Instructor o There were two different occasions where they were sent out on duty (02:24)  One was a train wreck outside of Dixon – He was posted in the mail car  The second was when he went to Savanna, Illinois where they guarded the Illinois side of the bridge going over the Mississippi River o They drilled and trained once a week (03:13) o The Militia was a volunteer position �               After Pearl Harbor he considered enlisting into the military – he was going to wait to get drafted (03:40) He received his draft notice in early 1943 He reported for duty in February of 1943 (04:01) Because of his background with the militia, he was responsible of getting men from Dixon to Chicago, Illinois When they got to Chicago, they received their physical inspection (04:40) He was sent to Camp Grant in Rockford, Illinois for basic training (05:05) When he got to basic training, he had some advantages because of his previous experience o One of the Drill Instructors asked if anyone had any drill experience – his friends shouted his name out o He was asked to stay on as a Drill Instructor but he declined (06:24) Aside from drilling, the soldiers were involved in building tents that were built up (07:10) o They also dug trenches, helped move supplies at a hospital, and other odd jobs (07:39) o He took some written exams at Camp Grant as well – he scored 136/150 (08:34) From Camp Grant he went to St. Petersburg, Florida where the soldiers were put up in a hotel for a short time (08:52) o They drilled out on the streets (08:57) o They were then moved out to “Tent City” located on a golf course o The sun did not shine until 10 A.M. (09:23) o His basic training actually occurred in St. Petersburg, Florida Most of the men there were meant to go into the Army Air Forces o He was trained to be part of the ground crew (10:12)  They were meant to maintain planes that could maintain a newly acquired base  When a squadron of planes would come out, they could maintain the planes until their ground crews could go forward (10:27)  At the time, the Japanese were almost at the point of getting into India After St. Petersburg, he had courses in handling bombs, handling fuses, training as an ordinance individual, etc. He trained in Utah, Iowa, and Texas (12:20) o He learned to drive trucks in Texas o In the same training period, he was on a couple of convoys being sent up to new trucks – they would then drive them back to the base He received training in Utah on how to handle bombs, fuses, etc. (13:14) Iowa was the last base before departing for active duty (13:34) o He was responsible for drilling his own people, training his people on fuses and bombs – he was an instructor at the time (13:48) He had been in training for nearly one and a half years before receiving his orders to go overseas (14:08) o At this point it was the middle of 1944 (14:19) �    He had received some leave time There were no other men that went through all of the same training that he did (15:12) Iowa is where his group came together His group departed from California – they had to do some drilling there to keep them busy (15:50) Active Duty – India – (16:12)           They were deployed on a transport ship (16:20) o They were on the sea for thirty-three days o They stopped in Australia for one day but were not allowed to get off (16:34) o They were taken to Bombay (Mumbai), India (16:42) The ship sailed by itself o They sailed in a zigzag pattern (17:13) His time on the ship was spent playing cards and doing other activities While on the ship they went through one storm where the ship would hit the waves and then drop (18:02) o He does not recall any of the men getting seasick o He did not spend much time on deck (18:27)  There were too many men for everyone to be on deck at the same time Once he gets to Bombay, they were dropped off at the docks where he got all of his mail o He received nearly three dozen letters (18:57) o Many of the men had tears in their eyes when they received their letters The men were then sent on train from Bombay to an airbase in northeastern India (19:20) o The train was interesting in that the restroom on board was a cubicle area with a hole in the ground (19:45) o At the different stops, the number of people looking for help was incredible o They played a lot of cards on the train o The train was covered but not enclosed (20:36) The men were surprised at what the Indians looked like, seeing the beggars, the housing was something they had never seen before, etc. At the airbase, he would go see a movie every night (21:52) o Two nights in a row, with a clear sky, the moon was blue At the Airbase, he was waiting to go on duty (22:34) o His particular services were not needed o Some of the soldiers would play baseball during the day (22:43) After having gone to Calcutta to buy some things to send home, he found out that he could not send home a bundle heavier than 10 lbs. (23:08) �  There were many American units on the base as well – there were different squadrons present They had to take a malaria killing medicine every day until they left the country (24:23) Active Duty – India/Burma/China – (24:40)      After staying at the base for some time, his next assignment was to go to Cox’s Bazaar in what is now Bangladesh (24:53) o Ten men were sent there to move munitions from a ship to a new munitions dump (25:02) o They stayed in housing that were pole structures with straw roofs (25:41) o While in Cox’s Bazaar, he and another soldier were responsible for getting two trucks “in shape” (26:13)  They were part of the motor pool o He was able to eat British food while he was there (26:31)  On Christmas Eve, some of the soldiers were invited to celebrate with some British soldiers – It was the one time in his life where he got drunk (27:26)  He was not a big drinker and the others knew that During his time in India, he found out that there was a need to work with pilots that were removing wounded from the front lines in Burma (29:10) o He volunteered to work with the pilots (29:28)  He would set up the camp, get the food, prepare the water for washing, got supplies for the chef, etc.  He worked with the pilots three or four different times (29:51)  The last time he worked with them a pilot took him to his next air base at “Rangoon” (Yangon), Burma (29:59)  When they arrived, the pilot made a sharp turn and the engine stopped – they ended up landing on a black top road (30:28)  One of the struts his the edge of the road and they ran into a cemetery wall  When the plane crash landed, he just “hung on” (31:07)  The pilot did a good job of keeping it under control His cargo squadron then needed someone to go into China so he volunteered to go (31:53) They stopped in Kunming, China (32:06) o It was a woody area – he went and walked around in the woods  While he was in the woods, he was shot at by a Chinese soldier (32:34)  He eventually made it back to camp without any harm (33:03) They then went to an airbase near Xi’an, China (33:15) o When he arrived and settled in, he learned that a Transport Squadron planes had crashed (33:34) �           o He went to HQ to volunteer for recovery  He was elected to go with a two others and an interpreter (33:58) The trip was seven days o They were driven to the first mountain range – they were kept overnight in a house – their beds were overtop a fireplace (34:30) When they climbed the mountain ranges to where the plane crashed, they had decided that they better have a good meal before they get to the last village (35:06) o When they arrived in the village, there was a committee there to welcome them in (35:57) o They found out that there was a 12 course meal waiting for them (36:33) o They stayed in the village for two nights After staying in the village, they went to where the plane was (37:40) o When they arrived, they found that the plane had belly-flopped on the peak of the mountain (37:47)  The cabin broke loose and the seven G.I.’s flew out through the opening (38:04)  They were responsible for recovering the bodies  There were mule skinners that were going to haul the bodies back to the base (39:07)  Before the bodies were taken to the base, they were taken to the village where a worship service took place – the Chinese offered their forms of prayer When they went to the crash site they climbed the entire way (41:54) o At one point they were walking on a very narrow ridge o The hike was not short o The plane was very flattened (42:37) At one point on the hike, the sole of his shoe began to fall off When he returned to the base, he was surprised that one of the doctors gave him half a bottle of liquor (44:55) o He did not drink, but his fellow comrades enjoyed it o He was surprised to learn that he had become a Sergeant (45:16) From that point, everything was “slow-going” for him They were all buying their time before they were shipped home After leaving China, he set sail for America on a ship (46:27) o When they arrived at the base in California, there was a large buffet waiting for the soldiers (46:37) o When he was in India and China he missed fresh eggs, ice cream, and some other foods (47:39) When he remembers back to India and China, he remembers playing baseball (48:50) o One time he flipped over the catcher at home plate and he bruised his shoulder When he was in the training stage, he helped prepare 100 lb. bombs that were dummy bombs used for practice (49:55) o They were filled with sand (50:03) �  o All he did was haul the bombs to the plane and another group would handle the actual loading of the bombs When he was in India and China, he was always at a distance from the actual war (51:11) o However, when he was in Burma he was actually in the Combat Zone but was not where the fighting was going on o At one point, some of the pilots were worried about flying their planes without protection  He was able to get boxes of hand grenades to give to the pilots after having tea with a British supply man (53:02) o When he was in Cox’s Bazaar, all of the soldiers were British  At Cox’s Bazaar he was driving along the pavement when he found out that he was in the wrong place (54:21) The soldiers would sometimes have houseboys that would take care of their things (55:16) After the Service – (56:31)          After he landed in the United States, the military tried to convince him to re-enlist (56:45) o He did not re-enlist because he wanted to go to college When he got home on February 8, 1946 he was surprised to see a Christmas tree on a small table (57:19) o His parents had kept it up for him until he returned home Before he had left for overseas he had developed a code system with his parents so that they could know where he was (57:40) He started going to school in the Fall of 1946 (58:46) He worked with an engineering firm between the service and school He went to North Central College in Naperville, Illinois (59:05) o It was a church related college o It is much different now than what it was when he went there o He was one of the first G.I.’s to go to the college (59:39) o He studied Engineering Science and he worked in land surveying After he worked with the surveying company, he began working in public administration (01:00:55) He worked in Western Springs, Illinois as a City manager He eventually became a City manager of Wyoming, Michigan (01:02:14) o He was the first city manager for the city � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KennaughJ1460V Title A name given to the resource Kennaugh, John (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kennaugh, John Description An account of the resource John Kennaugh was born in Rockford, Illinois in 1923. He became part of the Illinois Reserve Militia, which took the place of the National Guard. John was drafted in February of 1943 and was sent to Camp Grant, Illinois for basic training. He also trained in St. Petersburg, Florida, Utah, Iowa, and Texas. John was then deployed on a transport ship for thirty-three days before landing in Bombay, India. After being stationed at [Ninga] airbase for some time, he was sent to Cox's Bazar in Bangladesh. In India, John worked with pilots that were recovering body's form the front lines of Burma. He then volunteered himself for similar work in China where he passed through Xi'an and Kunming, China. Upon hearing of a Transport Squadron plane that had crashed, John was sent alongside two others and an interpreter to recover the soldiers. After finishing his work in China, John was sent to California, went to school, and eventually became a City manager. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Air Forces World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-10-16 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3b51f3be9f6ce3853a04b209beed06a1.mp4 83cbd477b4031690526fed639a15d001 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8f32b153ad6ac8fb72da1fe71772d3f2.pdf bf41190c311eba5b393e9cb035db908d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee: Lewis Kelsey Length of Interview: 01:22:25 Background                 He was born in Reed City, Michigan on March 24, 1923. He lost the farm when he was 10, during the depression. He would move to a small town in Eaton County. His father would rent a farm. He would go to a small country school. If you heard an airplane, the teacher would take them all outside to see an airplane. He would make it through 12th grade in high school. He graduated in 1942. He was in school when Pearl Harbor happened. He remembers hearing about it the next day when he went to school. When he found out about the war, he still wanted to finish school. There was only one man who enlisted immediately out of high school. After high school, he was enrolled at a National Youth Administration to learn about airplane mechanics. While he was in that school, his instructor was a retired Marine airplane mechanic and he got Kelsey to join the Marines. He had heard somewhere that there was going to be a new type of plane coming out and he really wanted to fly one of them. Unfortunately, he got the draft notice before he could sign up. He would report to his physical January 2, 1943. He was sworn in at the Armory in Kalamazoo. He was given a choice: go now to Fort Custer or wait a week and go to Camp Grant. He would take the week to see his sister in Big Rapids and go to Camp Grant on the 9th. He was there for two day and left in full uniform and dress coat. From there he was sent to Keesler Field, Mississippi. It was in the 90’s. Training (5:25)      It took them 2 days and 2 nights by train. The only thing that sticks out in his mind about the trip is that one guy had to be taken off the train and into an ambulance. He never did find out what happened. He had to walk out to the base. He thought it was a pretty nice base. There were a lot of B-36 planes there. He got basic training there. He was doing exercises, marching, and discipline. He applied for aviation school while he was there. �     When he went through the physical for aviation school, he was disqualified because his left eye was deemed not good enough. Even though when he had his first physical, he had almost perfect eyesight. The man telling him this showed him that because of his left eye, he was left with a blind spot. He understood, then, but he was still upset that he would be unable to go. Learning Army discipline wasn’t too hard for him. One time he missed a command and he had to run three laps around the Army field. Basic training lasted about 3 months. He would learn more about Air school when he transferred to Las Vegas, Nevada. Las Vegas (10:00)         It was very intensive training there. He had to learn how to take a machine gun apart and put it back together, blindfolded. He did an awful lot of shooting. He would first learn how to shoot a 50 caliber gun on the ground. They would have to shoot it at posts. The last 4 weeks they went up in airplanes and practices there. At the end of his training, he was flabbergasted to learn that he was one of the top 10 gunners and was invited to stay at a hotel in Vegas to celebrate. Las Vegas was not a big town then, but still good size. That night at the hotel he would meet a couple of actors and a singer. She would not sing for them that night, but she did sit at the table and eat supper with them. He was not getting any other training other than gunnery training. When he was done with gunnery training, he was shipped to Amarillo, Texas, for flight mechanic school. Amarillo (13:05)            He was learning all about the B-17. He was there almost 6 months. That was a very little amount of time to have to figure out everything that had to be done to learn about that plane, but he made do. His main responsibility was to transfer fuel. He would always have to make sure that no one was smoking. He would also take care of any problems while in flight. The fuel was stored in the wings. He had a lot of weekends off or got an evening pass to go see the city. There were no overnight passes. He remembers, they were done with their training, and he had hemorrhaged in the bowels. He spent 3 days in the hospital. He liked being there. It was a good town. His favorite town was Longview, Texas. He forgot to tell about his story from Keesler to Las Vegas: they went all the way around the mountain and into Utah. He does not know why they went so much out of the way, but they did. After his training and hospital time are done in Texas, he is transferred to Salt Lake City. �       When he was at Salt Lake City, he was assigned to an air crew. He was only there for a few days. From there they went to Peyote, Texas. That was another horrible place. He would take his combat training there. He would be transferred to a few more places and finally over the Atlantic. There were engine troubles along way and a guy in Iceland fixed it for them. When they went across the Atlantic, it was the entire crew. Europe (19:30)                 From Iceland he went to Belfast, Northern Ireland for a couple of days. From there he would get on a boat to go to Scotland and from there, he would take a train to Snetterton Heath. He would join the 338th Squadron 96th Bomb Group. The group would spend 2 years overseas and 200 missions. While at Snetterton Heath, they would live in Quonset huts, 12 men to a hut. There was a little coal stove in the thing, though there was not much coal to burn it. He does not recall even using it. He remembers his first mission, he went to Mulhouse], France. He remembers seeing the Swiss Alps. The plane that he would use for his first mission would get stuck in the mud before he ever had the chance to actually use it. It would only last 3 or 4 mission, as it would go down shortly after. He was with the same crew that he came over with throughout his time in Europe. He would lose 3 men. One of those men was born in Mexico City and did not have citizenship. An officer of the crew would find this out and the guy was pulled from any missions until his paperwork was completed. The officer was nice about it and explained what was going on to both the man and the rest of the crew, as the man was very well liked by all of them there. Because he was a citizen of Mexico wearing a US Army suit, he could have been executed for being a spy, legally. It turns out that the man was killed later on in a firefight, before they completed their mission. His pilot was from New Orleans. Copilot was a banker in NY. His navigator was a big honking kid from Memphis, TN. The bombardier was a Jewish boy from Philadelphia. The top gunner was the oldest and he was from Nashville, TN. The tail gunner was from Pittsburgh. There were others as well. Just before he left Texas, he turned 21. He was then one of the “old men” and that would give them five “old men” and five “kids” on their crew. His first mission was a milk run into eastern France (27:15) He bombed something, but he doesn’t remember what. He thinks it was a rail barge. This was April 1944. The squadrons would fly as a group. They would fly 3 squadrons as a group and each squadron would put up 7 airplanes, totaling 21. �                     He and his crew were in the 45th Combat Wing. Each squadron would put a wing on so all the planes would have an equal amount of cover fire. They would fly the planes close enough to keep the enemy aircraft from going through. Once in a while, they had an accident where two planes bumped together. Usually you would lose those planes. In the 30 missions he flew, he saw enemy aircraft four times, after seeing it one other time. Two of those four times, there were never any shots fired. The enemy aircraft did shoot at them. They did take a hit. The hydraulics system once caught on fire. The bombardier started screaming that they were on fire and to abandon ship. The big navigator, who was a really calm person, calmed the man down and said they would take care of the ship. And they did. The fire was put out, but the hydraulics system was gone, so everything had to be done manually. When he was flying these missions, a lot of times he could not see the ground at all. That was why they had a radar system on the plane. They would not bomb something unless they did see the target though. He does recall that on D-Day, they did drop bombs on a railway in a little town. The bulk of his missions were over France, though some of them were over Germany. (34:15) He bombed Paris a couple of times. It was terrible because they had really good antiaircraft fire at the time. He did bomb Berlin and received anti-aircraft fire there too. He saw enemy fire four times and they had attack them twice in the thirty missions that they had. To get near the ball bearing works or petroleum works, would mean that you would most likely see enemy fire. The worst place to attack was the ball bearing plant at Frankfurt. He went there once and that was enough. He did other missions rather than bombing missions. One time he went over France and they dropped supplies to the French underground. They never got above an 800 ft. altitude that day. He went there as a group and there was a big open field. They had the three groups that went and they left a lot of stuff. The French would have had to work real hard in order to get everything before the Germans got there. His plane got damaged from ground fire as well. In fact, he got a piece of shrapnel from the anti-aircraft fire. It was pulled from his headset. With the way he was standing, he thinks that if he had turned just a bit, the shrapnel would have gone completely through his earphone instead of catching onto it. Not one of his air crew were injured. On an average mission took him about 10 hours. When he completed his 30 missions that was it for him. While he was there, the requirement was raised, but they had completed their missions before that had happened. He only flew a few months. He was there in April and he finished in August. The last five missions took longer than the first twenty-five did. �            The last five missions took them to Czechoslovakia, twice to Poland, eastern Germany and another place. These missions weren’t necessarily more dangerous, just long. He did fly one mission with another crew, so he did not have to meet that last mission. After the 25th mission they were supposed to be at a rest home for a week, they were there 20 days. The psychiatrist would not release one of their men. The oldest man there was an alcoholic, so they would not let him go back. (40:30) Eventually, he would get sobered up and was allowed back into the missions. He was their turret gunner and he was a good shot. When he wasn’t flying missions, he would do normal exercises and play games. Every few days they would give you a two-day pass to London. He would also try to look for his brother. He knew he was in the 8th Fighter Command Headquarters, working as a cook, but he did not know how to find him. He was sent down to Operations, they would be able to tell him where he was at. So he went there and the clerk said that he could help him and it would only take a few minutes. The clerk disappeared for a couple of minutes and out came a major. The major told him that there was nothing that he could do for him. It would take him 30 years to figure out why he couldn’t find anything out. He would read Eisenhower’s Crusade in Europe book and finally figure out where he was. The reason they could not give him any information was because his brother was in the same compound that Eisenhower was. Just a few days later, his brother would come to find him. He told him how to find him in London. London (0:43:30)          His brother was allowed to stay with a 24 hour pass. He would give his brother his own bunk for the night. At 3am a guy came in to wake him up for a mission. Instead of waking up Lewis, the man would wake up his brother. He offered to take his brother on a mission, over England, but his brother would never fly. Lewis would eventually get a 48 hour pass to go see his brother in England. When his brother got off duty they would go to a pub. They would go to the local dog races several times. His brother’s friend, who was intimate with the world of gambling on the races, would help them out and tell them which dogs to bet on. When they got to the final race the dog they bet on was a scrawny little thing, but he ended up winning. Lewis’ brother could not believe it. He would send home $810 that month. (47:40) He would have luck with cards as well. While he was in London, he saw the House of Wax there, the Tower of London and he would see some of the bombed parts of London as well. While still in London, a buzz bomb had made it through the lines. He heard it quit running and there was quite an explosion. �                    He had to leave the next day, so he did not see the damage done. But he would return two weeks later to check it out. The place smelled so bad because they had not removed all the bodies yet. Once you smell that, you never forget. He and he crew would go in with five other crews, and they would only come out themselves. When they first got to the war, they would have fighter protection. As the newer planes came out, they would be escorted all the way to the target. The worst anti-aircraft fire mission they went on was Paris. They lost six planes that day. Most of their planes would be destroyed in anti-aircraft fire. One plane was on fire everywhere. He could see the copilot trying to keep the plane under control while the fires were being put out. It’s a good thing too, or else they may have been taken out that day too. He doesn’t know if anyone got out of the planes. There was a time when two planes bumped together. One came down and hit the other. The bottom plane split in half. The gunner and another man would fall to their death, from 30,000 ft. One of the crews had become POW. One man was an escapee, but the rest of his crew was still prisoners. (56:55) He remembers when he flew one of their first B-17 flights. He and his crew were carrying two 2,000lbs bombs. The bombardier would yell “Bombs Away!” but nothing happened. He was ordered up there to see if he could do something about it. But they were one ton bombs; there was nothing he could do. He would go back to the front and tell them there was nothing he could do. They sent him back again to see if he could do something. They eventually decided to land the plane at the farthest runway from the base. While he was helping the pilot, he did not even notice the plane touch down. If those bombs had come loose, they would have been blown to smithereens! It turns out there was a piece of the plane that was corroded a little bit. They had a heck of a time getting those bombs out of the plane. He did not get involved too much. It would be a couple of days after he completed his thirty missions when a sergeant came in and ordered them to pack their bags, clear the field, it was time to go home. When they got ready to go, he was ordered to put his stuff in a jeep, while the rest of his crew was ordered to put their stuff in a truck to be taken to the airport. When he got to where he was going, he was informed that he was under arrest for absence without leave for five weeks. His captain would come down to try to figure out what was going on. After giving the captain the information that was required he would have to stay not only on base, but he was restricted to the squadron area. The only time he could leave was to go to the mess hall. He was there for a couple of days and there was nothing to do. The man in charge told him that it was going to take a bit to figure out what was going on and asked him if there was something he would like to do. He wanted to see his brother back in London. The man was ready to give him a 7 day pass. He would go to London for a week and when he came back, he found out the man did not put those 7 days on his record yet. � That was a great thing, because when he got back to the US, he would come down with the chickenpox. This would prevent him from reporting to Miami, where he was supposed to go. Back to the USA (1:07:45)      After he got better, he reported to Miami. From there, he was sent back to Amarillo, Texas. He was there for a while and then was sent to Kingman, Arizona. There he was made a physical training instructor. He tried out for the baseball team there, but did not make it. This would not matter in the end because he was sent to San Antonio for physical instructor school. There he learned how to work with the guys coming through and teach them how to use hand-to-hand combat. From there, he went back to Kingman, but they were shutting the base down. He was sent to Laredo, Texas where he would be discharged. Post Duty (1:10:10)               He took a bus home to Michigan. By then the war was over. On his was back on the bus, there was a Marine sergeant sitting in front of him and in front of the Marine was a woman. The woman was complaining that the war was over and she wished it had gone on longer because she and her husband were living so well. The Marine got so upset that he socked her in the face. There was blood everywhere. At the next bus stop, the driver had her get off and told her to catch the next bus. He doesn’t know what kinds of reports went on from there, but he figured there must have been something. The Marine had broken some of her teeth, but even the bus driver thought the lady was asking for it. Once he got back home, he would work for the Kalamazoo paper company for a while. He would help out with the farm as well, with his brother and his father. His brother would eventually leave and go to Hopkins. It would be in 1957 that he would realize that he had enough of farming. The “family farm” was not the thing anymore. He had bought 120 acres of land to work, but it was not bringing in the kind of money that it had before. He would get a job at the Kalamazoo post office in 1963. Working two full-time jobs was too much for him, so he finally sold the farm. He would stay in the postal service for 30 years. The day he was discharged, the psychiatrist there told them that they would never forget this. He feels he is a better man after serving in the army. You don’t think much in the way of “I’m not going to make it”; you often think those things happen to others, but it can happen to you too. A single man on his crew was injured during combat, and that was his own fault for going out the wrong hatch and getting his finger caught. �       The pilot on his crew was a good pilot. (1:15:20) The man was barely big enough to be a bomber pilot. His crew would become the lead crew; this would happen via the pilot becoming the lead pilot. His squadron commander was sent to his camp to get combat experience. He would eventually be promoted to Brigadier General. He remembers when he was marching one time in England, he was a 1937 Buick. He was paying so much attention to the car, he did not realize there was a general in it, saluting him. Jimmy Stewart was actually a good officer. Apparently he was a general. He did find a way of getting answers from home, by mail quickly. Within a week he got a letters from his two sisters, his brother, and his mother. He had sent his letter home on a B-25. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KelseyL Title A name given to the resource Kelsey, Lewis (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kelsey, Lewis Description An account of the resource Lewis Kelsey was drafted into the army in 1942. He initially was sent for pilot training, but a problem with one eye made him a gunner and flight engineer instead. He trained in B-17s, and his crew was sent to the 8th Air Force in England in April, 1944. He flew 30 missions between April and August, and was then sent back home to serve as an instructor. Most of his missions were over France, supporting the Normandy invasion, but he also flew missions over Germany, Czechoslovakia and Poland. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-11-04 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b642b0c2bfa91d4c1b59b94b5ec567b3.mp4 23f01fa47b4696c453c38f02e824da44 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c9dc698257d992255815f5b7682a72cf.pdf 932251fbaf95ab03bfa145460d2e9942 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Kenneth Kelly (01:47:10) Background • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Born on a farm in Coopersville, MI. (0:24) One of nine children, six boys and three girls (00:30) His father, Asa Kelly, was a WWI veteran. (00:36) His mother was Hazel Easterly, who came from a family with thirteen children. (00:42) Big families were common in those days, as more children helped work on the farm. (00:53) Graduated High School in June of 1943. (00:58) Enlisted in the U.S. Navy construction battalions, the Sea Bees. (1:13) Born on 8/21/1925. (1:19) His family did relatively well during the Depression, despite having a large family. Everyone at the time was in a similar situation. (1:38) Suspects his parents may have had a harder time than the children. (1:52) His father was a school teacher. His mother died in 1937. (2:04) His eldest sister graduated high school the same year his mother died. She acted like a surrogate mother to the younger children. (2:06) Recounts that his father did have a harder time during the depression. (2:30) Three of his brothers served in the Army during WWII (2:45) Father was stationed at “Camp Custer,” which was later “Fort Custer.” (3:00) His father was a Lieutenant during WWI. (3:16) During WWI Asa confiscated a set of dice from some gambling soldiers, and took them home after the war. (3:23) Kenneth's oldest brother went to MSU (all but one went to MSU) and enrolled in the ROTC program at MSU. His brother graduated in 1941. (3:44) His brother was sent to Camp Custer for training. (4:06) Asa and Hazel were married when he was training in Camp Custer, and their eldest son was born in Battle Creek. (4:19) Kenneth spent fifty years selling overhead cranes and monorail equipment. (4:37) After Fort Custer became an industrial park, Japanese and German firms invested in the area. Kenneth sold equipment to these firms. (4:47) Comments on the irony of selling equipment to the Germans and Japanese, when he had fought them in WWII. (5:04) Kenneth did not participate in ROTC, he had only gone to High School at that time. ROTC was not a high school program at the time. (5:16) Enlisted as an apprentice seamen. (5:31) Pre-Enlistment • • • • Served two years, seven months as part of the Navy's construction team. (5:34) Many boys at his high school were worried about being drafted right after graduating. (5:50) Eight to ten boys at his school enlisted prior to graduating. Upon their return from the war they were given diplomas, despite not finishing school. (6:04) Pearl Harbor was attacked when he was sixteen. (6:31) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • At the time of the attack, he was at home listening to a radio show on a Sunday afternoon. The attack was interrupted with an announcement. (6:44) Had no idea where Pearl Harbor was located, but the radio soon informed them. (7:04) The attack took everyone by surprise. The war was brought home to them in a way they had not expected. They had known that President Roosevelt was helping the British, but being very young he hadn't read up about the situation in depth. (7:22) People became even more worried about the draft. (7:54) Some men enlisted in order to avoid being assigned to the Army when they were drafted. (8:07) Men drafted into the army usually became “dog faces” or infantry. (8:09) Worked part time at a local gas station. (8:26) Gasoline was rationed at the time, so he had to learn how to handle the ration coupons. (8:37) The ration was four gallons per week. (9:08) Four gallons per week was not very much, but it was enough for most people to get by at the time. (9:10) A few people cheated the system. (9:25) The gas station was frequently audited by government officials in order to prevent cheating. (9:43) While he was still in high school, he researched the different military branches in order to decide which to enlist in. (10:07) The Navy looked like the best branch for him. The Navy usually had clean beds, good food, and clean clothes. (10:52) A few times in the South Pacific he had to struggle. The lack of fresh water was the most frequent problem. (11:08) Training • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Camp Perry, near Williamsburg, VA was the start of his training. (11:36) Almost all of the Sea Bees were trained at Camp Perry. There were 350,000 Sea Bees in WWII. (11:50) A battalion was formed by eleven hundred men. (12:00) He arrived in Camp Perry in August, left in late October or early November. The next location was in Gulfport, MS. (12:31) At the Tampali Bay base he was given advance training. (12:31) Military training—marching, how to salute, and obey orders was trained at Camp Perry. (12:40) At Tampali Bay, he was given infantry training. The Sea Bees were very involved during invasions. (12:55) The infantry training was for self-defense. (13:26) Primary duty of the Sea Bees was to build bases for other operations. These bases were used by all branches of the military. Most of the bases were in the Pacific. (13:36) Continued his infantry training. (14:07) Went out on bivouac. (14:21) He was surprised at the cold weather in Mississippi. He thought it would be much warmer. (14:36) The tents they slept in weren't fire-resistant. (14:50) They had to get firewood, and store it in the tents. (15:07) Men were put on duty to watch for tent fires. (15:07) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • When he was on guard duty, he often stole wood from other tents. (15:48) Practiced invasions on an island in the Gulf of Mexico. (15:56) While in Mississippi, he went on “liberty” for twelve to twenty-four hours. He usually went to New Orleans during his leave. (16:00) He enlisted at age seventeen. He turned eighteen during training. (16:34) Couldn't drink because he was only seventeen. (16:54) The Navy Blue uniform had three stripes on the collar, and three on the cuffs. Many men in the Navy rolled back there cuffs past the stripes. One day as he was on liberty, some military policeman stopped his group of friends. His friends all had there sleeves rolled back, but he did not. As a result his friends were taken to the holding pen for being out of uniform. Afterwards, he always kept his cuffs unrolled. (16:58-17:45) Camp Perry is still around, but in a different form. He tried visiting the area again twenty-five years later, but was not allowed in. He found out it was the training base, or “Farm” for the CIA. (18:19-18:43) While in Camp Perry the men were formed into battalions. (19:03) He was in the 127th battalion. They trained as a battalion from that point forward. (19:08) The Navy needed men immediately in the Pacific, and they asked the battalion to select men to send out early. The battalions selected men they didn't like. As a result, one of his friends was selected, but he was not. His friend talked him to volunteering. His action was following the advice of a chief petty officer. (19:2519:56) [DVD skips] (20:24-20:28) [DVD skips again] (21:00-21:13) The term “polliwog” was a Navy term for someone who hadn't crossed Equator. Someone who had was called a “shellback.” When he crossed the equator he was given a certificate, and subjected to an initiation. (21:30) His initiation was simply being squirted with sea-water. Some of the other men were smeared with axle grease. The initiation was usually more severe, but there were so many recruits involved it was difficult. (21:34) Had to bow to a man dressed as King Neptune as part of the initiation. (22:17) He purchased some war bonds for $18.75. They matured into $25 bonds later on. He used the bonds to finance part of his wedding. (22:38) Shipped out • • • • • • • • Took off for the Pacific, through the Panama Canal. (23:23) The only time he had fresh water showers was while crossing the Panama canal. The fresh water was from a nearby lake. (23:37) Stopped at the Galapagos Islands, but did not go ashore. (23:55) The destroyer escort had to refuel. (24:00) Destroyer refueled again in Tahiti, and again in New Caledonia. While in New Caledonia, US Navy airplanes flew overhead. One of the planes had engine problems and crashed in the ocean. The men on the plane deployed an orange raft and were picked up by the destroyer. (24:16) New Hebrides Islands were among the first islands used as advance bases. The islands were used to build up supplies and troops. (25:17) At the Espiritu Santu Island he was taken off the boat. There were no barracks on the island, so they slept in a church. (25:52) Had a steel helmet, and a 1933 Springfield rfle. (26:36) �• When sleeping in church, he slept on a pew and used his backpack as a pillow. He slept cradling his rifle. (26:45) • He was put on another ship, this time an LST (Landing Ship Tank) and went to Guadalcanal. They stopped for one day, and were put on another ship. (26:58) • Next they were sent to Kuko Beach. (27:11) • Spend two weeks in New Guinea. (27:19) • Put to work at New Guinea. He worked nights at the ammunitions facility loading and unloading ammunition onto trucks. (27:38) • Got a bad sliver while working, and went to sick bay for treatment. Despite the medical treatment and disinfectant he came down with a severe infection. Part of his finger had to be removed. (28:08) • He was put on another ship, which was a badly maintained “rust bucket.” He still had not seen any combat at this point. (28:50) • Headed for the Admiralty Islands on a convoy with two destroyer escorts. (29:05) • His ship's engine stopped running. All the men were told to watch for submarine periscopes. One of the destroyers came back to check on them, but the other ships kept going. (29:22) • The radio on the ship was also nonfunctional, so the men on the destroyer and the convoy had to use megaphones. (29:50) • They didn't know how long the delay would be. (30:23) • The destroyer had to keep up with the rest of the convoy, and would not be able to stay behind permanently. (30:42) • Experienced electricians on board the ship were able to fix the problems. (30:55) • They managed to catch up with the rest of the convoy. (31:07) • Sailed onto Los Negros islands. (31:15) • Time spent in transit was three months. The battle they had been sent to assist in was still on-going. (31:23) Medals and Symbols • Received a medal for the Asiatic Pacific Theater. He also received two battle-stars, one for the Admiralties, and one for Okinawa. He also received a victory medal and a Good Conduct medal. (31:53) • The symbol with eagle and a circle was put on the uniforms. (31:57) • in 1995 he received a pin as part of the reunion. The inscription reads A grateful nation remembers, WWII 1995 1945.” (33:38) • Joined the 78th Sea Bee regiment, which was one of three in the area. The 40th and 2nd regiments were also used. His initial battalion was split three ways to join the other battalions (34:01) • The symbol on his sweatshirt was drawn by Disney artists in 1943 before he joined the 78th. The 78th had been based in Oxnard, CA and some men had asked the artists to draw them a symbol. The symbol is a fighting bee with a tommy-gun, a monkey wrench and a hammer. (34:16) • The new members of the 78th were not well liked by the older members. The senior members had been deployed from October to November of 1943, and when the new recruits came they knew they wouldn't be going back home soon. (35:49) Admiralties • The men were given tents, which were sixteen feet by sixteen feet. He was part of C Company. They were told where to put the tent, and given stakes. The wooden stakes did not work because of the ground, so they had to get new metal reinforced stakes. (36:42) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • He was on a sandy beach, with palm trees. (37:47) The trees were coconut palms. He enjoyed the pleasant weather, 150 miles from the Equator. (38:20) Most of the men walked about shirtless, in shorts and a cap. Many had sunburns. (38:51) The camp was near a captured air base. It was the first area they had taken. (39:05) Expanded and enlarged the existing air field for four engine bombers. (39:22) The Japanese airfields were not large enough for the large planes, such as the B-24 bombers. (39:23) The bombers began their raids at any hour, but often very early. (40:18) Around 4:00 AM they heard a loud crash, so they went to check the fuel supplies. They had fuel for the bulldozers, dump trucks, cranes, and other construction equipment. (40:35) A plane crashed into the nearby Sea Bee (40th regiment) and exploded. Thirty men were killed, and seventy wounded. (40:59) The area was a mess. He and some others found four unexploded bombs in a whole near the crashed bomber. (41:35) The Sea Bees included older men with construction experience. The average age of the Sea Bees was 37, the average age of the Marine Corps was around 23. Twentyfive men in his regiment were WWI veterans. (42:05) The Sea Bees had learned to improvise with building materials and food supplies. They cut down trees to build a dock in the area. (42:47) Some of the lumber from the mill was inconsistent, although it was good quality overall. They usually used tropical woods, like teak. (44:02) The Sea Bees were often complimented by higher officers because of their speed. Kenneth explains they used shifts to work 24/7. Also, the men didn't have much else to do. Work was a way to relieve boredom. (44:28) End of the war • When the war ended he was driving a tractor at 2 AM in Okinawa. He had been deployed for eighteen months. (45:06) • In Okinawa, he worked on an airfield for B29 bombers. (45:49) • The airstrip was two miles long. (46:00) • It was impossible to hear the air raid sirens over the noise of the tractors. They only knew of an air raid when shots were fired. (46:19) • During bombing raids, most of the Sea Bees hid under their tractors. They were never hit by the bombers as they were after the ships. (46:59) • Heard people cheering while he was running the tractor. He talked to the antiaircraft men, thinking that perhaps there had been a raid, and was informed that the war was over. (47:20) • He shut down the tractor and went back to camp. He was scolded for quitting early. (47:37) Back in the Admiralties, earlier • Worked on the dock at the Admiralties. The Admiralties was the largest base, it was constructed for invasion and re-taking of the Philippines. The area had good harbor facilities. (48:00) • Worked under General MacArthur. (48:44) • While he worked at the dock there were many types of ships: Navy, ammunition, tankers, troop ships, hospital ships, and little boats. (49:00) • One of his friends told him “hey, look” and he saw a huge pillar of smoke and flame. �(49:18) • He had to get under shelter, so he hid underneath a crane. (49:37) • An ammunition ship with three hundred men on board exploded. The hull of the ship was later found with the dead men. Seventy-five men on other ships were killed by debris. (49:58) • Quonset huts were used as a multi-purpose building, everything from barracks and hospitals to warehouses. (51:27) Pictures, Miscellaneous stories(51:59-1:10:46) • The official term of the tents they used was a “shelter-half,” each man carried half a tent which he joined to other halves. (53:26) • Patrol Nat Balintae disappeared during the war. Nat had painted the pictures he showed to the interviewer earlier. (54:10) • While on board, they had a ship-store. At the ship-store they could buy toothpaste, candy, and other items. The store ran at a profit and used the proceeds to create a log book at the end of the war. (55:00) • Phoebe the Sea Bee was in the book, also by Disney. (56:52) • Was in an article by the Grand Rapids Press. (57:19) • His eldest brother was in the Army for thirty years. (57:38) • Ran into his second eldest brother at Okinawa. (57:50) • Has a Japanese pistol from Okinawa. The pistol was based off the German Luger. His brother was in the invasion of Okinawa, and often patrolled behind enemy lines in the anti-tank platoon. He came across a dead Japanese officer and a dead girl. They believed the man had shot the girl and them himself. (59:91) • [Tape switched] (59:36) • In the Grand Rapids Press, there was a picture of him before he joined the Navy. (59:44) • Picture of the Gulfport, MS Sea Bee reunion. (1:00:00) • New Sea bees were also at the reunion. (1:00:26) • They picked coral out of the sea, and used it like concrete. The coral was crushed and then bonded like concrete. (1:01:57) • He operated a “sheep's foot roller.” (1:01:31) • Aleut Island, built an airfield on Panan Island. (1:01:39) • Has a picture of the airfield, which one of his comrades obtained online. The website indicating wrongly that the airfield was built by British and Australians. (1:02:52) • Picture of the cemetery and th chapel. (1:03:39) • The Sea Bees did a lot of earthmoving and drainage. (1:04:13) • Constructed a water tower, which converted salt water into freshwater. (1:04:38) • Has the original plans for Okinawa. They were never fully implemented as the war ended. (1:06:31) • Picture of the exploded fuel pumps, and of an explosion used to mine the coral. (1:07:06) • In November 1944, he was disappointed at not being sent on leave to Australasia. (1:07:45) • There was a brothel in Noumea, which was on the French island of New Caledonia. The US Navy had a special room at the brothel. (1:08:32) • Their chapel was multi-denominational. They held Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish services. (1:08:50) • A picture of a Japanese small craft which was re-built and used by the Navy. (1:10:00) �• • • The camp was about fifty feet from a cliff overlooking the ocean. (1:10:39) Was nominated President of his WWII association. (1:11:00) Two of his grandchildren are GVSU graduates. (1:11:42) Training • Was not trained by WWI veterans. He was trained by members of the US Marines who had served in Panama. (1:11:53) • The Marines hadn't had much experience training other Sea Bee units. The Sea Bees did not respond well to the Marine trainers, as it was full of older experienced construction men. The Marines often cursed at the Sea Bees during training, which the men objected to. Eventually, the some of Sea Bees challenged the Marines to a fight, and won. (1:12:20) • The Marines stopped cursing at the men. (1:13:20) • His commanding officer was a WWI vet, and so were some of the military policemen. (1:13:39) • WWI vets talked somewhat about their experiences in WWI. Most conversation was based on living conditions around the country. (1:14:15) • It was easy to tell where someone was from, based on their accents. (1:14:48) • Believes he was trained adequately for his experiences. (1:15:42) Time in Transport • Took three months for them to get to the assigned location. (1:15:54) • Exercised using calisthenics. (1:15:54) • One of the men on the ship developed spinal meningitis, and parts of the ship were quarantined. (1:16:12) • As a result of the quarantine, they always went to the mess hall last. (1:16:20) • No one else came down with meningitis. The one man who had it recovered. (1:16:46) • Two meals a day. One day they found worms in the beefaroni and complained. They were then given new food. (1:17:22) • The men were often stinky. The saltwater showers and lard-based soap left them unpleasantly greasy, so they showered less. (1:17:35) • Two typhoons while they were in Okinawa, which sink some ships. It also split their tent. (1:18:22) • Tent curtain was kept up most of the time, because of the heat. Everything got wet as a result. (1:19:20) Interaction with civilians • Had direct contact with citizens. (1:19:32) • The Admiralties were all black. (1:19:38) • He sometimes visited civilians, but not frequently. Other men visited more frequently. (1:19:51) • Most of the people were friendly to the Americans. (1:20:06) • Believes this is still true today, mostly. (1:20:20) • Okinawa was more developed. (1:20:43) • Okinawans are not Japanese, and generally dislike the Japanese. He found this out during the reunion. (1:21:00) • During the war, the Japanese told the Okinawans horror stories about the Americans—that they would kill all the men, and rape the women. (1:21:27) • Okinawans moved with the Japanese to avoid the Americans. (1:21:45) • The US Navy was ordered to attack the Japanese • 140,000 civilians were killed in addition to 100,000 Japanese, 9,000 US Army and �• Marines, and 5,000 Navy. (1:22:00) Truman used two atomic bombs. Some of the men worried the Japanese might have atomic bombs. (1:22:50) Leisure • He was allowed to on “liberty” a few times, but he had nowhere to go. (1:23:30) • On the way the way to Okinawa he spent about a week on a small recreation island. (1:23:48) • The recreation island had tennis courts, basketball courts, and he could drink all the beer he wanted. (1:24:20) • Remembers many of the Navy men getting in drunken fights on the island, but that was just good fun at the time. (1:24:34) • Had a pretty good time at the Navy camps. (1:24:50) • Built a base facility to take care of minesweepers. (1:25:04) • The kitchen (where?) had an ice machine. While on active duty the men where allowed two beers a week. He and his friends usually saved up the beer for time off. (1:25:27) • On Sundays they would get the beer, ice from the kitchen, buy cigars and play poker. (1:25:53) Communication/visits his family, other remarks • He was able to keep in contact with his family through the mail service. (1:26:15) • The mail was censored, so he couldn't tell his family where he was located. (1:26:21) • Despite being a teacher, his father did not write many letters, and the letters he did write were only a few paragraphs. (1:26:34) • His aunts on his mother's side sent him letters frequently. (1:26:45) • He managed to find out his brother Dale was on Okinawa, and that his cousin was on another nearby island. He found out from his aunts. (1:27:16) • One day an Army chief came into the base with two grubby soldiers. The men entered the officer tent, and came out shortly after. The two soldiers then removed their helmets, and one of the men was his brother Dale. (1:27:56) • Dale had used the truck ID numbers to find him. Dale had come to the area to visit some wounded men as well. (1:28:55) • Kenneth visited his brother frequently, but had to take a gun with him every time he left the base (1:29:17) • During every battle he was given a gun, which he had to return at the end. (1:29:37) • Did not have any kamikaze scares with during his various voyages. (1:29:52) • He did not directly interact with the Japanese. He was only involved with the Japanese during the frequent air raids. (1:29:55) • The Navy frequently played movies at night in an outdoor theater. He quit one of the movies early because of an air raid, but other men stayed at the movie. (1:30:20) Reunion • The reunion was a wonderful experience for him. (1:30:44) • He flew in on a plane from Osaka, Japan. (1:31:07) • Got off the plane at the Naha airport, which was the capital of Okinawa. (1:31:07) • There were forty to fifty people waiting for them, they all clapped. They were glad to see the Americans return. (1:31:33) • Each night of the reunion had a special ceremony, with different services. Five wreaths were thrown in the water for the dead. (1:31:49) • A memorial hospital in the area was named after a sailor who had been awarded a �• • • • • • • • • • • medal of honor. The sailor was at the reunion. (1:32:12) Went jogging in Osaka. They stayed at a fancy hotel. The flight was going to leave at 11:00. He was jogging with an eighty-five year old, and he was seventy at the time. The man was his room-mate at the hotel, and had been a shipmate during WWII. (1:32:54) He went down a long street, and intended doing a loop around a traffic island. Instead he got lost, and all the street signs were in Japanese. (1:34:01) Came across a taxi, asked for directions. Had to ask for directions multiple times. Eventually he came across a woman who gave him elaborate directions in perfect English (1:34:44) He had left around 6:00 AM, the hotel had a checkout time of 7:00 AM. He got back to the hotel, and his room mate had put his bags outside the room (1:34:54) His roommate’s grandson was in the Marines. He had a broken ankle and had accompanied them on the reunion. (1:35:45) The Commander of the Navy was at the Reunion, and introduced to the grandson. (1:36:10) The Okinawans had a special ceremony for the dead (from the earlier mentioned battle). They listed off the names of each person killed, it took three days and two nights. (1:36:24) They had built a remembrance garden full of trees and pillars. Each pillar was inscribed with the names of the dead. (1:36:50) At the ceremony, Americans and Japanese planted trees together in the garden. (1:37:10) His brother died in 1985, he missed him at the ceremony. (1:37:25) He was in Okinawa for a week. Post-War life • Spent twenty-two years in the Reserves. (1:37:40) • Trained men for Vietnam and Korea. (1:38:48) • Enlisted 1947, began taking a commission in 1949. (1:37:54) • Retired from the Reserves in 1969. (1:38:06) • Trained men in Muskegon, Flint, and Lansing for a short time. (1:38:09) • Was the President of Kelly Sales and Engineering Co. He went to college at MSU. (1:38:30) • Started the business in 19693, operated until 2002. (1:39:00) • Sons joined in the business. (1:39:11) • The business closed in 2002. He retired from the business in 1990, but he still works as an engineer. (1:39:22) Opinions on the War in Iraq • He doesn't think the draft would be appropriate for the war in Iraq, as there are sufficient numbers of volunteers. (1:39:53) • His grandson is in the Army, and will be leaving for his second tour soon. (1:40:07) • Is of the opinion that enlisted men and women accept their job and duty. (1:40:15) • Believes they are welcomed by the Iraqis, especially the youth. (1:40:31) • A unit of Sea Bees is deployed in Iraq, re-building infrastructure and improving existing infrastructure. (1:40:37) More post-War • After the war he was still very young. Discharge was based on a points system, and he had few points due to his age. (1:41:22) • He came home for thirty days near Thanksgiving. He went to a Navy field and �• • • • • • • • • • became military policeman afterwards. (1:41:53) He rode trains from Chicago to Buffalo and back in order to track men. (1:42:16) Had a lot of free times while he was an MP. (1:42:32) Spend most of his free time looking for girls, as did most of his friends. One of his friends had a fake ID he used to buy liquor, and was caught. And jailed for seven days (1:42:48) When they were looking for girls, they weren't really looking for sex, just dance partners and a good time. (1:43:21) He went to a roller-skating rink, and was told the Aragon ball-room in Northwest Chicago would be a good place for girls. (1:43:28) Went to the place, a band was playing. It was a nice place. (1:43:46) It was a special party at the ball-room, so there were no girls without escorts. He complained to the girl running the candy corner, and she gave him the phone number of two of her girlfriends. (1:44:04) He talked to the girls, and they both showed up. He got to pick which one he danced with because he'd made the phone call. He picked Ruth, and married her that September, which was eight months later. She was from Winfield, IL. (1:44:44) He has three sons, seven grandchildren, and five great grandchildren. (1:45:16) Three of his brothers were in the service. Two of his brothers married women who were in the service. His second eldest brother married a woman who had been in the Women’s Army Corps, and his eldest married an Army nurse. (1:45:32) • Ruth had three older brothers in the military. His two sisters married Army men. (1:46:37) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KellyK Title A name given to the resource Kelly, Kenneth (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kelly, Kenneth Description An account of the resource Kenneth Kelly was born on a farm in Coopersville, MI in 1925. He enlisted in the Navy in 1943 and served in a construction battalion (Seabees) in the Pacific theater, primarily in the Admiralties and on Okinawa. He relates several of his experiences while working on war construction projects, and focuses mostly on camp life. He also served in the Reserves for thirty years. The interview includes a description of his experience of the 1995 reunion at Okinawa. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McCauslin, Kelly (Interviewer) Spring Lake District Library (Spring Lake, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-01-19 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/266ee9dd2fc0009ad37acbbec85c20c1.m4v ea5c822007150bfe0ae60e460ae56777 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/63df4bb869ad4a0ace6ded55d3b1ba90.pdf 0e41438bea578748eaf58ac0bb801937 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II George Keller Length of interview (1:30:02) (00:04) Background Was born on a Michigan farm in 1916 and was one of seven siblings. (00:12) Brother was inducted into World War I when George was 2 years old, 1918. (00:29) All of his sibling suffered from diabetes and bad hearing. (01:05) Started grade school in a rural school. (01:25) Family moved to Everett, where he went to school and graduated in 1935. (01:45) Enjoyed school because he was too small to play sports. (01:59) Graduated in the height of the Depression. (02:18) Father had died in 1932, when he was 16 years old. (02:22) Went back to school to become a qualified teacher. (02:28) Moved to Ottawa county to teach for a few years before getting his degree. (04:11) Taught in several rural schools. Had been principal in several small schools. (04:42) Was teaching at a four-room school when Pearl Harbor happened in 1941. (08:15) Was drafted in February, 1943. (08:39) Admits that he hadn’t paid much attention to the war in Europe before Pearl Harbor. (08:51) Was married in 1942. Describes the difficulty of dealing of being drafted. (11:32) (13:32) Basic Training First reported to Camp Custer to take his physical. (13:42) Trained at Camp Claiborne, LA, along the Sabine River. Stayed there for six months (13:50) Were told that they would be practicing maneuvers in swamplands for three months. (14:40) Explains how he was promoted from a Private to a Sergeant. (14:50) Describes the basic training process. Recalls that the rigor of basic training forced him to grow up very quickly. (16:14) Describes some of the difficulty he had with the running courses. (17:35) His specialized job included checking the morning reports of several companies. Describes the difficulty of this because everything was done by hand. (19:26) Trained with the 103rd Division, which had fought in World War I. (22:24) Stayed in Louisiana from February until November. (23:51) Division moved to Texas from August to November, where they were on maneuvers. Describes the conditions during this time. (24:59) Wife came around Christmas and stayed until July. (26:37) Division was called the “Cactus Division.” (26:53) Division went to Texas for glider training. Learned to pack parachutes. (27:22) Describes his living situation while in Texas. (32:47) Recalls his friendship with his typist, who had an anthropology degree from Stanford �University. (36:20) Divison was sent to Southern France in September on a Liberty Ship from Camp Shanks, NY. (38:25) (40:13) Service in Europe Arrived in Marseilles, France with a convoy. (40:13) Walked for 22 miles north of Marseilles to a new Delta Base. Most troops continued on trucks, but theirs didn’t. Describes traveling through the rain. (40:35) At one point, their division wasn’t able to receive rations. Describes meeting a woman who helped them find food and provided a place for them to stay. For a couple weeks, they would listen to the BBC there, which was against the law. (42:11) Traveled north before reaching the Rhine at Worth, France. (45:12) Describes his work in the headquarters, which required him to keep track of casualties. (49:20) Describes his disdain with the living conditions of the civilians. (51:24) Towards the end of the war, his division ended up in Innsbruck, Austria. Division was instructed to ‘liberate’ the city. Describes the experience. (52:24) After clearing out the southern half, they turned the area into a camp. (53:40) Describes meeting a couple women who had snuck back into town. (54:13) Stayed in Innsbruck for about three months, until he received orders to work at General Patton’s headquarters near Munich. Described the comfortable living and working conditions. (55:34) Describes his contact with General Patton. Was often asked to type up top secret endorsements. (58:01) Describes his experience with a coworker who was fratenizing with the Germans. (59:36) Discuss Patton’s political troubles. (1:02:25) Describes Patton as a “picturesque person” who was not disliked during the war. (1:04:16) During this time, he was “so busy [that he] didn’t know what he was doing.” He worked to keep track of the movements of all of the soldiers that were being sent home. Describes the scope of the headquarters’ duties. (1:07:18) Describes his frustration with the women he worked with. (1:09:43) Before he was discharged, he was allowed to attend any university in Europe. Attended the Univeristy of Edinburgh. (05:32) Didn’t enroll in classes because he wanted to learn about the school system in Europe. Found that it was very similar. (06:23) Returned to the United States in December, 1945 from Scotland after his detached service from Hamburg, Germany. Describes his experience having to sleep at Camp Lucky Strike, near Le Havre, France while waiting for reliable transportation. (1:10:37) (1:14:02) Life After Service Returned home in January and recalls that the North Atlantic was very foggy. (1:14:02) Mentions his fascination with historical poetry and astronomy. (1:14:17) Landed in New York before taking a train to Camp Atterbury, Indiana. (1:15:15) Arrived home on January 9. (1:15:44) Worked at a Kelvinator Refrigerators Plant in Wyoming before working with computers. �(1:16:00) Received a call from [Compton] who asked him to be a principal because of his military background. Worked there for about four or five years. (1:17:15) Describes his life with his family and some of the hobbies he enjoyed. (1:18:22) Recalls that his experience in the military made him a man. Says that it was an experience he wouldn’t want to repeat, but he thinks it was worthwhile, nonetheless. (1:19:37) Retired in 1974. (1:25:05) Taught for a total of 35 years. Now he enjoys teaching bible study. (1:28:42) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KellerG Title A name given to the resource Keller, George (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keller, George Description An account of the resource George Keller grew up in Michigan and before his service during World War II, he taught in several rural schools and was a principal for a few small schools. He was drafted in February of 1943, and sent to Louisiana to train with the 103rd Division. He was assigned to the divisional headquarters because of his clerical skills, and was promoted from Private to Sergeant so that his rank fit his position. His division landed in Marseille in the fall of 1944 and joined the 7th Army in Alsace. In 1945, they crossed the Rhine and ended the war in Innsbruck, Austria. After thw ear was over, he was transferred to General Patton's headquarters in Munich, where he worked for several months before being shipped home. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-05-28 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/07f0e6dc43746931a3690af30f2367c7.mp4 5dc77942d8053aa2e780e3a718dcaed3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2becb78cc72f3e08bb134f14bcd5ae87.pdf 814bbe3c46490c1072b21df8cb490ed7 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Herman Keizer Pre-Vietnam, Vietnam War, and Post -Vietnam 2 hours 12 minutes Interview begins @ 00:03:30 (00:03:32) Early Life -Born in Chicago, Illinois on May 21, 1938 -Oldest of seven children -Had lots of opportunities growing up in Chicago -Moved to the suburb of Cicero at the age of six -Went to a Christian Reformed school until second grade -Went to a Lutheran grammar school after second grade -Good teachers and small classes -Went to J. Sterling High School in Cicero -Had a full time job at the time and also went to school -Wanted to go into the ministry -Was heavily involved in the church at a young age -Started teaching Sunday School -Considered going to the Calvin College Seminary -Wanted a Classically driven education -Calvin was also Christian Reformed so it was their denomination of belief (00:09:11) Calvin College -Took a year off after high school to save money -While at Calvin he worked part time jobs -Went broke by the first part of his senior year -Had no frame of reference for a higher education -Came from a family and an area where higher education was nonexistent -College was foreign to him, and difficult (00:11:39) Draft and Training Overview -One year before graduation got drafted in 1962 -Taking a break from college made him liable to be drafted -Was sent to Fort Knox, Kentucky for basic training -Chaplain’s wife heard him singing during a service and told him he should join the choir -Chaplain asked him if he wanted to become a Chaplain’s Assistant -Went to Fort Dix, New Jersey for Clerical Training -Sent to Fort Belvoir, Virginia for a permanent deployment (00:13:45) Details on Basic Training -Goal is to strip you of your identity -Same haircut, same uniform, act the same -You start to become a soldier gradually -It felt like a series of small graduations at the end of each week -Learning how to march, handle a rifle, and live in the field �-Took a twenty mile march at the end of field training -Army struggles with making it seem like you’re part of a constant team -Needs to instill a cohort system for bonding (train together, fight together) -There was not a lot of emotional conflict -Studied to be a chaplain and trained to be a soldier -A Chaplain’s Assistant meant he would protect the chaplain (00:18:16) Military and Chaplaincy -Being in the military helped to push him towards the end goal of becoming a chaplain -Saw how instrumental chaplains were in the military -Ran into clergy from all different faiths -Enlightening experience, the differences didn’t matter -Saw cooperation without compromising of faith -Remembers that chaplains were important for the morale of soldiers (00:22:40) Cuban Missile Crisis and Fort Belvoir -Knew of trouble in Vietnam, but the main concern was Cuba -Got deployed to Florida in the event that an invasion was launched -Helped engineers at Fort Belvoir get ready to move down to Florida Coast -Worked full time with the chaplain at Fort Belvoir -Would have had to go in with the first wave if Cuba was invaded -Chaplains would have been extremely necessary and would have needed protection -Confidentiality was key and instrumental for advocacy amongst the soldiers -With confidential information he could challenge officers that were being unethical -Confronted a 4 star general once -Tremendous sense of excitement and foreboding during the Cuban Missile Crisis -Only twenty miles away from Washington D.C. -Heard news about Cuba in real time because of how close he was to the capitol -Nuclear strike was a very real threat -Was ready to go fight if necessary -Knew severity of nuclear warfare -Threat of nuclear holocaust was an everyday part of civilian life -Saw tapes that showed the extreme power of a nuclear weapon (00:31:38) JFK Assassination -Just got off guard duty at Fort Belvoir when he saw the report that JFK had been assassinated -Immediately told his company commander -Held memorial services -Busy time because of planning for memorials -Fort Myer and Fort Belvoir engineers built the first eternal flame -There wasn’t a lot of time to reflect or mourn the president’s death -Tremendous increase in paranoia over Russian and/or Cuban involvement in JFK’s death -Community involvement in the march to Arlington Cemetery was stirring (00:34:34) Returning to Calvin College -Returned to Calvin College to pursue an education in the Seminary -Got married to a nurse from Blodgett Hospital in 1964 -Finished Calvin in 1965 -More discipline and older age was helpful in completing studies -G.I. Bill helped to negate the major monetary concerns �-Had a clear direction as to what he wanted to get out of college -Spent three years in the Calvin College Seminary after that -Confined area for studying scripture, theology, and ethics -Took comprehensive exam -Hebrew, Greek, and theology were major subjects -Exams helped pull the knowledge together -After comprehensive exam took classical exam (00:39:20) Military Requirements for Chaplaincy -Being a chaplain in the Army required formal education -A Masters in Theology to be specific -Needed to be a part of a religion that has constituency and can sponsor you -Army wanted to curtail fraud -Needed to have endorsement from religion that could be retracted if necessary -Kept people who weren’t equipped to be chaplains out of that service -Had to be able to have a split allegiance to both the U.S Army and Christianity -Would not compromise faith for orders -Graduating from Seminary was just one step -Had to go through Classical and then on to being ordained (00:45:51) Becoming a Chaplain and Fort Gordon, Georgia -Parents supported chaplaincy decision -Wished he would have aimed for getting a church instead though -Fuller Avenue Christian Reformed Church called him for chaplaincy -At this point also got Captain’s Commission from the Army -Got ordained and endorsed -Had to go active duty -Deployment was to Fort Gordon, Georgia -Didn’t know anyone that was already there -Chaplains that hadn’t already gone through basic training weren’t forced to go through that -Instead they were given physical training and an education on the Geneva Convention -Having military experience was helpful at Fort Gordon -Could get right into his chaplaincy -Soldiers trusted him because he was trained -Fort Gordon was a signal center at the time -Wide array of people were there -Fort was active twenty four hours a day (00:51:40) Deployment to Vietnam -Buildup was happening -Knew that within six months he would have to go to Vietnam -Did four months of signal school -Did two months of physical training to be prepared to be in a combat zone -Was flown to Vietnam in a chartered commercial flight -Landed in Tan Son Nhut Air Base -Noticed that Vietnam had its own smell -Food, feces, and the smell of open sewage -Senses were bombarded getting off the plane -Hot and humid as well �-Assigned to the 1st Infantry Division northeast of Saigon -Specifically assigned to the 1st Battalion of 26th Regiment of the 1st Infantry Division (00:54:54) Lai Khe -Sent to Lai Khe -Former rubber plantation in southern Vietnam near Saigon -Met the chaplain that he was replacing -Warned of and briefed on the difficult times that he would experience -Was greeted by Colonel Radcliffe -Told that he could move freely between the base camp and Lai Khe -Keizer requested that he would be allowed to go out into the field -Colonel resisted at first and then acquiesced -Given the rundown about being in the field -He was allowed to pick units that he felt needed the morale boost the most -Admired the abilities of commanders -Could organize and manage the artillery, air, and ground movements -Had to deal with uncharted jungles (01:03:26) In the Field-The 1st Time -First time in the field was uneventful -Secured a positioned so that other troops could move in -Discovered signs of Viet Cong and North Vietnamese presence -Felt good not causing problems by being there -Could be a soldier and a minister -Gave affirmation the commander and eased his wariness (01:05:38) In the Field-The 3rd Time -Third time that they went out they made contact -Point man stopped because he saw a booby trap -Claymore mines were set off remotely by the Viet Cong -Viet Cong opened fire but weren’t able to wound or kill anyone -U.S. troops reacted immediately and killed fifteen V.C. -Remembers that the engagement was loud, and heard bullets going over his head -Seeing the damage of a Claymore mine was unsettling -There was fear, but being afraid was healthy and helpful -Moved the V.C. bodies, searched them for intel and tried to pick up the trail -Kept moving trying to stay on their trail -Slow, persistent, and deliberate -Never found them -Spent two days in the field and then returned to the firebase (01:11:05) Discovery of a Base -Bulldozer collapsed into a bunker while clearing foliage -Five story deep tunnel system used by the Viet Cong -Complex and intricate (hospital, communications, and sophisticated flue system) -Found a cemetery -Finding a cemetery indicated they were on top of a large base -Viet Cong were extremely dug in and tenacious (01:13:30) International Relations -Did not have a lot of contact with South Vietnamese troops at first �-After the U.S. special forces and the South Vietnamese Army invaded Cambodia contact with the South Vietnamese increased -There were racial tensions between local indigenous people and the South Vietnamese -Interacted with the Australians -Replaced chaplain that was going on R&R -Not a lot of South Vietnamese chaplains -South Korean chaplains were fairly common (01:16:45) Daily Routine in Vietnam -Services were not bound to Sundays -Where the chaplain went and when he went was when the service was -He and a Catholic priest would fly out together from their base camp everyday -Upon returning he would eat dinner, shower, and then go to the hospital until midnight -During services in the field there was cooperation -Protestants guarded the Catholics and vice versa -Tried to bring Jewish literature and incorporate Jewish scripture for Jewish soldiers (01:19:33) Cambodia -Discovered that they were in the middle of a Viet Cong training ground -At night they got hit by mortar and rocket fire -Sustained a concussion, skull fracture, and shrapnel wounds -Had to fight through the night -He was given a flak jacket and a .45 pistol -Went and tended to the wounded -Aided medic who was treating a soldier that was severely wounded -Prayed and comforted the soldiers that were mortally wounded -Stayed on the base and was treated there -Wanted to stay with the soldiers -Conducted a memorial service the next day (01:25:57) An Khe and Coming Home -Returned to An Khe after Cambodia -4th Infantry was being rotated into An Khe -Helipad had been altered -Pilot wasn’t accustomed to the different helipad -Helicopter crashed -He fell out and broke both of his arms -Went to the hospital at An Khe -Stabilized there -Move to Camp Zama, Japan -Further stabilization, surgery, and medical processing -Sent to the Great Lakes Naval Hospital in Illinois -Stayed there for five months -Got to reunite with his wife, parents, and see his son who was nine months old (01:28:54) Fort Carson and Background on Drugs & Alcohol Program -Sent to Fort Carson, Colorado -Acted as a hospital chaplain -Still needed to meet with physical therapists because of broken arms -Went to a variety of Ivy League schools to gather info for drug & alcohol program �-Was eventually sent to the Pentagon to deliver information and program outline -Problems existed in Europe concerning race relations and drugs -Sent to Wurzburg, Germany as a special advisor for the commander of the 4th Infantry Division -Cocaine and heroin were prevalent in Vietnam -Extremely pure and also very cheap -“A $5 habit a day in Vietnam was $100 a day in New York.” -Alcohol was also a major problem amongst soldiers (01:32:45) Drugs & Alcohol Program Details -Worked with clinical psychologist and psychiatrist in a detox ward in Germany -Program was not meant to be a medical model -Just a way to get the command involved with the issue at hand -Put together briefing -Believed that it would take a combination of leadership from best lieutenant colonels and education -Taught about urine analysis and drug education -Saw unethical conduct in Schaffenburg, Germany -Commander was concerned about maintaining reputation -Didn’t want to be seen as a commander of drug users -Needed to know how to help them -Briefed the Commander of Army Europe on the situation -Got assigned to train drug abuse counselors all over Europe -Established a drug education school in Bremerhaven, Germany -Ran it for two years (01:36:31) Chaplaincy in the States -Returned to the U.S. -Went to chaplain advanced course -Learned how to serve commanders at the next highest level -Selected for advanced civilian schooling -Sent to Columbia University Teachers’ College for one year -Got a Master’s in education -Spent two years in the faculty at Brooklyn -Spent two years in Fort Monmouth -Was part of the staff at first and then became a trainer -Supposed to go back to Europe -Wound up getting placed in a newly formed position -Served Deputy Chief of Staff Maxwell Thurman -Got invited to social functions thrown by Thurman -Worked for him for three years -Wrote papers for the chief of staff concerning leadership -Wrote a paper detailing the conduct for helping Army families (01:41:45) September 11, 2001 -Was working at the State Department -Special advisor to the ambassador for International Religious Freedom -Coworker came in and said that the World Trade Center had been hit -Saw the second plane hit on live TV -Bomb warning went off in the State Department to evacuate �-Had to go through a special computer shutdown procedure for security purposes -Was prepared to go over to the Pentagon to address the Unified Chaplains over lunch -Saw smoke pouring out of the Pentagon -Advised State Department employees to go home -Walked over to the Pentagon -Volunteers were gathering to go and gather the dead -Some was asking for a person with mortuary experience -He helped to establish a basic mortuary -Went into the center courtyard of the Pentagon and helped the firefighters there -Started to visit surrounding hospitals (01:45:04) Post 9/11 -Asked to help with security the next day at the State Department -Compiled list of countries that were active in the World Trade Center -Helped to discern that it was not an attack on America, it was an attack on the world -Lost a lot of good friends in the Pentagon on 9/11 (01:48:50) Reflections on Service -Spent forty years in the Army -It gave him the opportunity to be able to work for soldiers and their families -Got to be responsible for all of the chaplains from all of the branches in Europe -Saw monumental occurrences in modern history -Rwanda, the Ivory Coast, Bosnia, and Kosovo -Was able to see firsthand the fall of the Soviet Union -Helped reestablish chaplaincy positions in Eastern European countries -Sense of accomplishment being able to see first chaplains graduate from those countries -Feels like he is part of a distinguished legacy of servicemen � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KeizerH0437V Title A name given to the resource Keizer, Herman (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keizer, Herman Description An account of the resource Herman Keizer was born in Chicago, Illinois, in 1938 and grew up in the suburb of Cicero. He attended Calvin College in Michigan and was drafted in 1962. He trained at Fort Knox, Kentucky for basic training, and on to Fort Dix, New Jersey for clerical training, and was deployed to Fort Belvoir, Virginia, where he served as a chaplain's assistant. He was on standby during the Cuban Missile Crisis. After completing seminary at Calvin College he became an Army chaplain and served in Vietnam with the 1st Infantry Division at the time of the Cambodian incursion in 1970. After the war he served as a high ranking chaplain in Europe, the United States, the State Department, and the Pentagon until his retirement. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-07-25 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/65ecfc5d5214cdf99d6ddf3aadfe8e5a.mp4 88bdd2ccb53fc0914d3cfe94a961ec10 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3f6e657103b5058980cb58a9451976e3.pdf 932251fbaf95ab03bfa145460d2e9942 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Kenneth Kelly (01:47:10) Background • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Born on a farm in Coopersville, MI. (0:24) One of nine children, six boys and three girls (00:30) His father, Asa Kelly, was a WWI veteran. (00:36) His mother was Hazel Easterly, who came from a family with thirteen children. (00:42) Big families were common in those days, as more children helped work on the farm. (00:53) Graduated High School in June of 1943. (00:58) Enlisted in the U.S. Navy construction battalions, the Sea Bees. (1:13) Born on 8/21/1925. (1:19) His family did relatively well during the Depression, despite having a large family. Everyone at the time was in a similar situation. (1:38) Suspects his parents may have had a harder time than the children. (1:52) His father was a school teacher. His mother died in 1937. (2:04) His eldest sister graduated high school the same year his mother died. She acted like a surrogate mother to the younger children. (2:06) Recounts that his father did have a harder time during the depression. (2:30) Three of his brothers served in the Army during WWII (2:45) Father was stationed at “Camp Custer,” which was later “Fort Custer.” (3:00) His father was a Lieutenant during WWI. (3:16) During WWI Asa confiscated a set of dice from some gambling soldiers, and took them home after the war. (3:23) Kenneth's oldest brother went to MSU (all but one went to MSU) and enrolled in the ROTC program at MSU. His brother graduated in 1941. (3:44) His brother was sent to Camp Custer for training. (4:06) Asa and Hazel were married when he was training in Camp Custer, and their eldest son was born in Battle Creek. (4:19) Kenneth spent fifty years selling overhead cranes and monorail equipment. (4:37) After Fort Custer became an industrial park, Japanese and German firms invested in the area. Kenneth sold equipment to these firms. (4:47) Comments on the irony of selling equipment to the Germans and Japanese, when he had fought them in WWII. (5:04) Kenneth did not participate in ROTC, he had only gone to High School at that time. ROTC was not a high school program at the time. (5:16) Enlisted as an apprentice seamen. (5:31) Pre-Enlistment • • • • Served two years, seven months as part of the Navy's construction team. (5:34) Many boys at his high school were worried about being drafted right after graduating. (5:50) Eight to ten boys at his school enlisted prior to graduating. Upon their return from the war they were given diplomas, despite not finishing school. (6:04) Pearl Harbor was attacked when he was sixteen. (6:31) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • At the time of the attack, he was at home listening to a radio show on a Sunday afternoon. The attack was interrupted with an announcement. (6:44) Had no idea where Pearl Harbor was located, but the radio soon informed them. (7:04) The attack took everyone by surprise. The war was brought home to them in a way they had not expected. They had known that President Roosevelt was helping the British, but being very young he hadn't read up about the situation in depth. (7:22) People became even more worried about the draft. (7:54) Some men enlisted in order to avoid being assigned to the Army when they were drafted. (8:07) Men drafted into the army usually became “dog faces” or infantry. (8:09) Worked part time at a local gas station. (8:26) Gasoline was rationed at the time, so he had to learn how to handle the ration coupons. (8:37) The ration was four gallons per week. (9:08) Four gallons per week was not very much, but it was enough for most people to get by at the time. (9:10) A few people cheated the system. (9:25) The gas station was frequently audited by government officials in order to prevent cheating. (9:43) While he was still in high school, he researched the different military branches in order to decide which to enlist in. (10:07) The Navy looked like the best branch for him. The Navy usually had clean beds, good food, and clean clothes. (10:52) A few times in the South Pacific he had to struggle. The lack of fresh water was the most frequent problem. (11:08) Training • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Camp Perry, near Williamsburg, VA was the start of his training. (11:36) Almost all of the Sea Bees were trained at Camp Perry. There were 350,000 Sea Bees in WWII. (11:50) A battalion was formed by eleven hundred men. (12:00) He arrived in Camp Perry in August, left in late October or early November. The next location was in Gulfport, MS. (12:31) At the Tampali Bay base he was given advance training. (12:31) Military training—marching, how to salute, and obey orders was trained at Camp Perry. (12:40) At Tampali Bay, he was given infantry training. The Sea Bees were very involved during invasions. (12:55) The infantry training was for self-defense. (13:26) Primary duty of the Sea Bees was to build bases for other operations. These bases were used by all branches of the military. Most of the bases were in the Pacific. (13:36) Continued his infantry training. (14:07) Went out on bivouac. (14:21) He was surprised at the cold weather in Mississippi. He thought it would be much warmer. (14:36) The tents they slept in weren't fire-resistant. (14:50) They had to get firewood, and store it in the tents. (15:07) Men were put on duty to watch for tent fires. (15:07) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • When he was on guard duty, he often stole wood from other tents. (15:48) Practiced invasions on an island in the Gulf of Mexico. (15:56) While in Mississippi, he went on “liberty” for twelve to twenty-four hours. He usually went to New Orleans during his leave. (16:00) He enlisted at age seventeen. He turned eighteen during training. (16:34) Couldn't drink because he was only seventeen. (16:54) The Navy Blue uniform had three stripes on the collar, and three on the cuffs. Many men in the Navy rolled back there cuffs past the stripes. One day as he was on liberty, some military policeman stopped his group of friends. His friends all had there sleeves rolled back, but he did not. As a result his friends were taken to the holding pen for being out of uniform. Afterwards, he always kept his cuffs unrolled. (16:58-17:45) Camp Perry is still around, but in a different form. He tried visiting the area again twenty-five years later, but was not allowed in. He found out it was the training base, or “Farm” for the CIA. (18:19-18:43) While in Camp Perry the men were formed into battalions. (19:03) He was in the 127th battalion. They trained as a battalion from that point forward. (19:08) The Navy needed men immediately in the Pacific, and they asked the battalion to select men to send out early. The battalions selected men they didn't like. As a result, one of his friends was selected, but he was not. His friend talked him to volunteering. His action was following the advice of a chief petty officer. (19:2519:56) [DVD skips] (20:24-20:28) [DVD skips again] (21:00-21:13) The term “polliwog” was a Navy term for someone who hadn't crossed Equator. Someone who had was called a “shellback.” When he crossed the equator he was given a certificate, and subjected to an initiation. (21:30) His initiation was simply being squirted with sea-water. Some of the other men were smeared with axle grease. The initiation was usually more severe, but there were so many recruits involved it was difficult. (21:34) Had to bow to a man dressed as King Neptune as part of the initiation. (22:17) He purchased some war bonds for $18.75. They matured into $25 bonds later on. He used the bonds to finance part of his wedding. (22:38) Shipped out • • • • • • • • Took off for the Pacific, through the Panama Canal. (23:23) The only time he had fresh water showers was while crossing the Panama canal. The fresh water was from a nearby lake. (23:37) Stopped at the Galapagos Islands, but did not go ashore. (23:55) The destroyer escort had to refuel. (24:00) Destroyer refueled again in Tahiti, and again in New Caledonia. While in New Caledonia, US Navy airplanes flew overhead. One of the planes had engine problems and crashed in the ocean. The men on the plane deployed an orange raft and were picked up by the destroyer. (24:16) New Hebrides Islands were among the first islands used as advance bases. The islands were used to build up supplies and troops. (25:17) At the Espiritu Santu Island he was taken off the boat. There were no barracks on the island, so they slept in a church. (25:52) Had a steel helmet, and a 1933 Springfield rfle. (26:36) �• When sleeping in church, he slept on a pew and used his backpack as a pillow. He slept cradling his rifle. (26:45) • He was put on another ship, this time an LST (Landing Ship Tank) and went to Guadalcanal. They stopped for one day, and were put on another ship. (26:58) • Next they were sent to Kuko Beach. (27:11) • Spend two weeks in New Guinea. (27:19) • Put to work at New Guinea. He worked nights at the ammunitions facility loading and unloading ammunition onto trucks. (27:38) • Got a bad sliver while working, and went to sick bay for treatment. Despite the medical treatment and disinfectant he came down with a severe infection. Part of his finger had to be removed. (28:08) • He was put on another ship, which was a badly maintained “rust bucket.” He still had not seen any combat at this point. (28:50) • Headed for the Admiralty Islands on a convoy with two destroyer escorts. (29:05) • His ship's engine stopped running. All the men were told to watch for submarine periscopes. One of the destroyers came back to check on them, but the other ships kept going. (29:22) • The radio on the ship was also nonfunctional, so the men on the destroyer and the convoy had to use megaphones. (29:50) • They didn't know how long the delay would be. (30:23) • The destroyer had to keep up with the rest of the convoy, and would not be able to stay behind permanently. (30:42) • Experienced electricians on board the ship were able to fix the problems. (30:55) • They managed to catch up with the rest of the convoy. (31:07) • Sailed onto Los Negros islands. (31:15) • Time spent in transit was three months. The battle they had been sent to assist in was still on-going. (31:23) Medals and Symbols • Received a medal for the Asiatic Pacific Theater. He also received two battle-stars, one for the Admiralties, and one for Okinawa. He also received a victory medal and a Good Conduct medal. (31:53) • The symbol with eagle and a circle was put on the uniforms. (31:57) • in 1995 he received a pin as part of the reunion. The inscription reads A grateful nation remembers, WWII 1995 1945.” (33:38) • Joined the 78th Sea Bee regiment, which was one of three in the area. The 40th and 2nd regiments were also used. His initial battalion was split three ways to join the other battalions (34:01) • The symbol on his sweatshirt was drawn by Disney artists in 1943 before he joined the 78th. The 78th had been based in Oxnard, CA and some men had asked the artists to draw them a symbol. The symbol is a fighting bee with a tommy-gun, a monkey wrench and a hammer. (34:16) • The new members of the 78th were not well liked by the older members. The senior members had been deployed from October to November of 1943, and when the new recruits came they knew they wouldn't be going back home soon. (35:49) Admiralties • The men were given tents, which were sixteen feet by sixteen feet. He was part of C Company. They were told where to put the tent, and given stakes. The wooden stakes did not work because of the ground, so they had to get new metal reinforced stakes. (36:42) �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • He was on a sandy beach, with palm trees. (37:47) The trees were coconut palms. He enjoyed the pleasant weather, 150 miles from the Equator. (38:20) Most of the men walked about shirtless, in shorts and a cap. Many had sunburns. (38:51) The camp was near a captured air base. It was the first area they had taken. (39:05) Expanded and enlarged the existing air field for four engine bombers. (39:22) The Japanese airfields were not large enough for the large planes, such as the B-24 bombers. (39:23) The bombers began their raids at any hour, but often very early. (40:18) Around 4:00 AM they heard a loud crash, so they went to check the fuel supplies. They had fuel for the bulldozers, dump trucks, cranes, and other construction equipment. (40:35) A plane crashed into the nearby Sea Bee (40th regiment) and exploded. Thirty men were killed, and seventy wounded. (40:59) The area was a mess. He and some others found four unexploded bombs in a whole near the crashed bomber. (41:35) The Sea Bees included older men with construction experience. The average age of the Sea Bees was 37, the average age of the Marine Corps was around 23. Twentyfive men in his regiment were WWI veterans. (42:05) The Sea Bees had learned to improvise with building materials and food supplies. They cut down trees to build a dock in the area. (42:47) Some of the lumber from the mill was inconsistent, although it was good quality overall. They usually used tropical woods, like teak. (44:02) The Sea Bees were often complimented by higher officers because of their speed. Kenneth explains they used shifts to work 24/7. Also, the men didn't have much else to do. Work was a way to relieve boredom. (44:28) End of the war • When the war ended he was driving a tractor at 2 AM in Okinawa. He had been deployed for eighteen months. (45:06) • In Okinawa, he worked on an airfield for B29 bombers. (45:49) • The airstrip was two miles long. (46:00) • It was impossible to hear the air raid sirens over the noise of the tractors. They only knew of an air raid when shots were fired. (46:19) • During bombing raids, most of the Sea Bees hid under their tractors. They were never hit by the bombers as they were after the ships. (46:59) • Heard people cheering while he was running the tractor. He talked to the antiaircraft men, thinking that perhaps there had been a raid, and was informed that the war was over. (47:20) • He shut down the tractor and went back to camp. He was scolded for quitting early. (47:37) Back in the Admiralties, earlier • Worked on the dock at the Admiralties. The Admiralties was the largest base, it was constructed for invasion and re-taking of the Philippines. The area had good harbor facilities. (48:00) • Worked under General MacArthur. (48:44) • While he worked at the dock there were many types of ships: Navy, ammunition, tankers, troop ships, hospital ships, and little boats. (49:00) • One of his friends told him “hey, look” and he saw a huge pillar of smoke and flame. �(49:18) • He had to get under shelter, so he hid underneath a crane. (49:37) • An ammunition ship with three hundred men on board exploded. The hull of the ship was later found with the dead men. Seventy-five men on other ships were killed by debris. (49:58) • Quonset huts were used as a multi-purpose building, everything from barracks and hospitals to warehouses. (51:27) Pictures, Miscellaneous stories(51:59-1:10:46) • The official term of the tents they used was a “shelter-half,” each man carried half a tent which he joined to other halves. (53:26) • Patrol Nat Balintae disappeared during the war. Nat had painted the pictures he showed to the interviewer earlier. (54:10) • While on board, they had a ship-store. At the ship-store they could buy toothpaste, candy, and other items. The store ran at a profit and used the proceeds to create a log book at the end of the war. (55:00) • Phoebe the Sea Bee was in the book, also by Disney. (56:52) • Was in an article by the Grand Rapids Press. (57:19) • His eldest brother was in the Army for thirty years. (57:38) • Ran into his second eldest brother at Okinawa. (57:50) • Has a Japanese pistol from Okinawa. The pistol was based off the German Luger. His brother was in the invasion of Okinawa, and often patrolled behind enemy lines in the anti-tank platoon. He came across a dead Japanese officer and a dead girl. They believed the man had shot the girl and them himself. (59:91) • [Tape switched] (59:36) • In the Grand Rapids Press, there was a picture of him before he joined the Navy. (59:44) • Picture of the Gulfport, MS Sea Bee reunion. (1:00:00) • New Sea bees were also at the reunion. (1:00:26) • They picked coral out of the sea, and used it like concrete. The coral was crushed and then bonded like concrete. (1:01:57) • He operated a “sheep's foot roller.” (1:01:31) • Aleut Island, built an airfield on Panan Island. (1:01:39) • Has a picture of the airfield, which one of his comrades obtained online. The website indicating wrongly that the airfield was built by British and Australians. (1:02:52) • Picture of the cemetery and th chapel. (1:03:39) • The Sea Bees did a lot of earthmoving and drainage. (1:04:13) • Constructed a water tower, which converted salt water into freshwater. (1:04:38) • Has the original plans for Okinawa. They were never fully implemented as the war ended. (1:06:31) • Picture of the exploded fuel pumps, and of an explosion used to mine the coral. (1:07:06) • In November 1944, he was disappointed at not being sent on leave to Australasia. (1:07:45) • There was a brothel in Noumea, which was on the French island of New Caledonia. The US Navy had a special room at the brothel. (1:08:32) • Their chapel was multi-denominational. They held Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish services. (1:08:50) • A picture of a Japanese small craft which was re-built and used by the Navy. (1:10:00) �• • • The camp was about fifty feet from a cliff overlooking the ocean. (1:10:39) Was nominated President of his WWII association. (1:11:00) Two of his grandchildren are GVSU graduates. (1:11:42) Training • Was not trained by WWI veterans. He was trained by members of the US Marines who had served in Panama. (1:11:53) • The Marines hadn't had much experience training other Sea Bee units. The Sea Bees did not respond well to the Marine trainers, as it was full of older experienced construction men. The Marines often cursed at the Sea Bees during training, which the men objected to. Eventually, the some of Sea Bees challenged the Marines to a fight, and won. (1:12:20) • The Marines stopped cursing at the men. (1:13:20) • His commanding officer was a WWI vet, and so were some of the military policemen. (1:13:39) • WWI vets talked somewhat about their experiences in WWI. Most conversation was based on living conditions around the country. (1:14:15) • It was easy to tell where someone was from, based on their accents. (1:14:48) • Believes he was trained adequately for his experiences. (1:15:42) Time in Transport • Took three months for them to get to the assigned location. (1:15:54) • Exercised using calisthenics. (1:15:54) • One of the men on the ship developed spinal meningitis, and parts of the ship were quarantined. (1:16:12) • As a result of the quarantine, they always went to the mess hall last. (1:16:20) • No one else came down with meningitis. The one man who had it recovered. (1:16:46) • Two meals a day. One day they found worms in the beefaroni and complained. They were then given new food. (1:17:22) • The men were often stinky. The saltwater showers and lard-based soap left them unpleasantly greasy, so they showered less. (1:17:35) • Two typhoons while they were in Okinawa, which sink some ships. It also split their tent. (1:18:22) • Tent curtain was kept up most of the time, because of the heat. Everything got wet as a result. (1:19:20) Interaction with civilians • Had direct contact with citizens. (1:19:32) • The Admiralties were all black. (1:19:38) • He sometimes visited civilians, but not frequently. Other men visited more frequently. (1:19:51) • Most of the people were friendly to the Americans. (1:20:06) • Believes this is still true today, mostly. (1:20:20) • Okinawa was more developed. (1:20:43) • Okinawans are not Japanese, and generally dislike the Japanese. He found this out during the reunion. (1:21:00) • During the war, the Japanese told the Okinawans horror stories about the Americans—that they would kill all the men, and rape the women. (1:21:27) • Okinawans moved with the Japanese to avoid the Americans. (1:21:45) • The US Navy was ordered to attack the Japanese • 140,000 civilians were killed in addition to 100,000 Japanese, 9,000 US Army and �• Marines, and 5,000 Navy. (1:22:00) Truman used two atomic bombs. Some of the men worried the Japanese might have atomic bombs. (1:22:50) Leisure • He was allowed to on “liberty” a few times, but he had nowhere to go. (1:23:30) • On the way the way to Okinawa he spent about a week on a small recreation island. (1:23:48) • The recreation island had tennis courts, basketball courts, and he could drink all the beer he wanted. (1:24:20) • Remembers many of the Navy men getting in drunken fights on the island, but that was just good fun at the time. (1:24:34) • Had a pretty good time at the Navy camps. (1:24:50) • Built a base facility to take care of minesweepers. (1:25:04) • The kitchen (where?) had an ice machine. While on active duty the men where allowed two beers a week. He and his friends usually saved up the beer for time off. (1:25:27) • On Sundays they would get the beer, ice from the kitchen, buy cigars and play poker. (1:25:53) Communication/visits his family, other remarks • He was able to keep in contact with his family through the mail service. (1:26:15) • The mail was censored, so he couldn't tell his family where he was located. (1:26:21) • Despite being a teacher, his father did not write many letters, and the letters he did write were only a few paragraphs. (1:26:34) • His aunts on his mother's side sent him letters frequently. (1:26:45) • He managed to find out his brother Dale was on Okinawa, and that his cousin was on another nearby island. He found out from his aunts. (1:27:16) • One day an Army chief came into the base with two grubby soldiers. The men entered the officer tent, and came out shortly after. The two soldiers then removed their helmets, and one of the men was his brother Dale. (1:27:56) • Dale had used the truck ID numbers to find him. Dale had come to the area to visit some wounded men as well. (1:28:55) • Kenneth visited his brother frequently, but had to take a gun with him every time he left the base (1:29:17) • During every battle he was given a gun, which he had to return at the end. (1:29:37) • Did not have any kamikaze scares with during his various voyages. (1:29:52) • He did not directly interact with the Japanese. He was only involved with the Japanese during the frequent air raids. (1:29:55) • The Navy frequently played movies at night in an outdoor theater. He quit one of the movies early because of an air raid, but other men stayed at the movie. (1:30:20) Reunion • The reunion was a wonderful experience for him. (1:30:44) • He flew in on a plane from Osaka, Japan. (1:31:07) • Got off the plane at the Naha airport, which was the capital of Okinawa. (1:31:07) • There were forty to fifty people waiting for them, they all clapped. They were glad to see the Americans return. (1:31:33) • Each night of the reunion had a special ceremony, with different services. Five wreaths were thrown in the water for the dead. (1:31:49) • A memorial hospital in the area was named after a sailor who had been awarded a �• • • • • • • • • • • medal of honor. The sailor was at the reunion. (1:32:12) Went jogging in Osaka. They stayed at a fancy hotel. The flight was going to leave at 11:00. He was jogging with an eighty-five year old, and he was seventy at the time. The man was his room-mate at the hotel, and had been a shipmate during WWII. (1:32:54) He went down a long street, and intended doing a loop around a traffic island. Instead he got lost, and all the street signs were in Japanese. (1:34:01) Came across a taxi, asked for directions. Had to ask for directions multiple times. Eventually he came across a woman who gave him elaborate directions in perfect English (1:34:44) He had left around 6:00 AM, the hotel had a checkout time of 7:00 AM. He got back to the hotel, and his room mate had put his bags outside the room (1:34:54) His roommate’s grandson was in the Marines. He had a broken ankle and had accompanied them on the reunion. (1:35:45) The Commander of the Navy was at the Reunion, and introduced to the grandson. (1:36:10) The Okinawans had a special ceremony for the dead (from the earlier mentioned battle). They listed off the names of each person killed, it took three days and two nights. (1:36:24) They had built a remembrance garden full of trees and pillars. Each pillar was inscribed with the names of the dead. (1:36:50) At the ceremony, Americans and Japanese planted trees together in the garden. (1:37:10) His brother died in 1985, he missed him at the ceremony. (1:37:25) He was in Okinawa for a week. Post-War life • Spent twenty-two years in the Reserves. (1:37:40) • Trained men for Vietnam and Korea. (1:38:48) • Enlisted 1947, began taking a commission in 1949. (1:37:54) • Retired from the Reserves in 1969. (1:38:06) • Trained men in Muskegon, Flint, and Lansing for a short time. (1:38:09) • Was the President of Kelly Sales and Engineering Co. He went to college at MSU. (1:38:30) • Started the business in 19693, operated until 2002. (1:39:00) • Sons joined in the business. (1:39:11) • The business closed in 2002. He retired from the business in 1990, but he still works as an engineer. (1:39:22) Opinions on the War in Iraq • He doesn't think the draft would be appropriate for the war in Iraq, as there are sufficient numbers of volunteers. (1:39:53) • His grandson is in the Army, and will be leaving for his second tour soon. (1:40:07) • Is of the opinion that enlisted men and women accept their job and duty. (1:40:15) • Believes they are welcomed by the Iraqis, especially the youth. (1:40:31) • A unit of Sea Bees is deployed in Iraq, re-building infrastructure and improving existing infrastructure. (1:40:37) More post-War • After the war he was still very young. Discharge was based on a points system, and he had few points due to his age. (1:41:22) • He came home for thirty days near Thanksgiving. He went to a Navy field and �• • • • • • • • • • became military policeman afterwards. (1:41:53) He rode trains from Chicago to Buffalo and back in order to track men. (1:42:16) Had a lot of free times while he was an MP. (1:42:32) Spend most of his free time looking for girls, as did most of his friends. One of his friends had a fake ID he used to buy liquor, and was caught. And jailed for seven days (1:42:48) When they were looking for girls, they weren't really looking for sex, just dance partners and a good time. (1:43:21) He went to a roller-skating rink, and was told the Aragon ball-room in Northwest Chicago would be a good place for girls. (1:43:28) Went to the place, a band was playing. It was a nice place. (1:43:46) It was a special party at the ball-room, so there were no girls without escorts. He complained to the girl running the candy corner, and she gave him the phone number of two of her girlfriends. (1:44:04) He talked to the girls, and they both showed up. He got to pick which one he danced with because he'd made the phone call. He picked Ruth, and married her that September, which was eight months later. She was from Winfield, IL. (1:44:44) He has three sons, seven grandchildren, and five great grandchildren. (1:45:16) Three of his brothers were in the service. Two of his brothers married women who were in the service. His second eldest brother married a woman who had been in the Women’s Army Corps, and his eldest married an Army nurse. (1:45:32) • Ruth had three older brothers in the military. His two sisters married Army men. (1:46:37) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KeithE Title A name given to the resource Keith III, Elvin W. (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keith, Elvin W. Description An account of the resource Elvin W. Keith III was born on April 14, 1933. He went to Westchester State Teachers College and then joined the Marines. He started out in the platoon leader's class and then was promoted from a Field Commander to the Company Commander. Elvin was stationed in Vietnam and was assigned to the Motor Transport Battalion of the Third Marine Division. After Vietnam he was stationed at Camp Lajune, North Carolina where he trained to become a Regimental Motor Transport Officer. After his time in the service, Elvin began working for the FBI in Texas and he now teaches classes in Michigan at Baker College. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ericksen, Wallace J. (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Marine Corps Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-11-24 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7ca00e33edd83093bc38728cb01d6d7f.mp4 e478d1c77c6e815a5eff4bca08c56448 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f23c838d7d2de7c6297d979201f4a0ae.pdf a1962c92a9c3a3a1616293cb5957e137 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Richard Keberle (28:44) (00:04) Background Information • When Richard was younger he broke a lot of his toys • His family did not have much money during the Depression • He was born in Cleveland, Ohio in November of 1931 • His father was a maintenance supervisor • His mother worked for a short time during World War Two • He went to school at West Technical high school (3:50) Activities at School • Richard often played marbles with his friends • He did not get involved in any sports, but did enjoy lifting weights • He was interested in airplanes while he was in high school but was not sure if he would be going to college or joining the service (7:20) Pearl Harbor • Richard was only about ten years old when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor • Many people did not even know where the base was even located • He graduated from high school in 1950 (8:30) The Korean War • Richard joined the National Guard after high school • Many people became part of the Air Force after it was renamed after the Air National Guard • They were phasing out the P-51s and bringing in new jets • Richard started out as a mechanic and then went on to do clerical work • They changed the Air Corps to the Air Force around 1951 and everyone was issued new uniforms (13:00) The National Guard • Richard joined the National Guard in eleventh grade and just trained on weekends • He worked as a civilian employee in the Air National Guard in Michigan after high school • He eventually became aid to a General who had been an Ace in World War Two • The General made him Master Sergeant (18:40) Life After the Air Force • It was tough to make any money for a living for a long time • He tried owning a gas station, a car-sales company, and eventually ended up doing well in the restaurant business • He also worked as a salesman for Sysco Foods after he sold his restaurant � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KeberleR Title A name given to the resource Keberle, Richard (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Keberle, Richard Description An account of the resource Richard Keberle was born in Ohio during the beginning of the Depression. His family did not have very much money and he joined the National Guard in eleventh grade. After graduating from high school, Richard spent more of his time in the Air National Guard, which eventually became part of the Air Force, serving between 1949 and 1954. Richard remembers the changes that took place while the Air Force was being created. Keberle served as a clerk and did not fight in the Korean War. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Veterans Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-05-15 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ba99682e0486d836f1923e1fe9917eed.pdf 6ec6459ff2027337039390da15079f9a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of Interviewee: Ernie Kaufman Name of War: Other veterans & civilians Length of Interview: (00:33:05) Background  Comments on the differences from his childhood to the present o “We weren’t at horse and buggies, we had cars, but not much else has changed since then.” (00:37)  used to live in a house on Lincoln Lake Rd. were he farmed a farm (01:22)  Describes a story about a group of Indians that came down and set up camp near where his family had their farm o Were just stories, he never witnessed them (02:02)  Lives on Clyde River Dr. o Dug out an Indian Burial ground while putting in a sewer system 10 years prior (02:25)  Comments on the schools o Had lots of smaller schools in his day, not one big one o Teachers seemed a lot more strict as well, “but times change” (03:27) Enlistment  Drafted in the 11th grade o He wanted to go serve anyway, After the attack on Pearl Harbor (04:20)  He didn’t think too much about Pearl Harbor after it had happened (04:50)  November of 1945 went for his physical, didn’t think he would have been drafted o He was drafted by the beginning of April (05:33) Training  Went to boot camp in Texas (06:02)  Not angry at being drafted, he was doing his duty (06:12)  It was his chance to get out and see the world (06:28)  Was at boot camp for a few weeks (06:45)  At one point he couldn’t remember his serial number and was sent to KP for a few days  Regular routine training at the boot camp, marching etc. (07:40) Deployment  Shipped out of Amarilla by train to Biloxi Mississippi to a radar school (08:00)  Volunteered to go to a certain place o Went to the South Pacific (08:14)  Didn’t want to go to Europe, he wanted to see the world (08:32)  Went to Camp Stone (**) in San Francisco  There for a week (08:50)  Put on a troop ship to Hawaii o Unloaded 2/3 of the cargo there (09:00) �  The ship held a lot of cargo, and it took them seven days to unload what they needed to get off (09:17) Went to Wake Island o Not there for very long at all, maybe a day (09:30) Guam  Went to Guam o Got sea sickness on the ride over a lot (09:40)  Hit a typhoon on the way to Guam (10:00)  Got to Guam, put in trucks and went to North West Field (?) (10:37)  Everything was torn t pieces when they arrived, Sea Bees were sent in to build barracks and get generators up (11:00)  “Guam was not a country, just a big rock with jungle all over it” (11:49)  Set up places for soldiers to stay when it rained, not there to help rebuild the towns and villages (12:04)  It rained almost once every day (12:17)  Stayed away from locals (12:33)  They were told not to talk to the locals (12:45)  Stayed in North West field for around two months (13:01)  Sent to the North air and sea rescue base o Had 17 good boats (13:13)  North West field was converted into a B29 base (13:31)  Hot, sticky weather, always wet (13:41)  Locals not hostile  No place to go on the island so they really couldn’t  There were a lot of bases on the island, with little huts dispersed throughout (14:09)  The Locals would go through the bases trash all the time (14:57)  Working on a runway that had a drop off near the end of it, he saw a man jump off the side (15:33)  Was in Guam for about a year (16:05) Sapien  Went to Sapien on a plane  Flew in turned around and flew back out, doesn’t know why (16:17)  His job on the plane was to check the landing gear (17:05)  Everything he did he had volunteered to do (17:25)  Was with the Air and Sea Rescue Headquarters message squadron  He liked it because he knew what was going on before anyone else did (17:30)  A typical day went as follows: Got up around 5 a.m., went to chow, went to their job, left around 1 p.m. for chow, then went to an assigned job around the base (18:08)  They were assigned different jobs in the afternoons (19:01)  Didn’t so much rescuing, everything was going smoothly (19:39)  He saw them do drops o The drops had enough food for 10 men for 30 days (20:06) �      Stayed with the message center for most of his stay in Guam (20:36) He got into trouble with his officials a lot (21:36) Glad he wasn’t in Guam for the actual fighting during the war (22:39) The Japanese were well fortified (22:41) They went out into the jungle when they were bored (23:00) They built all their own runways and barracks, because there wasn’t anything there before (23:57)  Explains the leper colony o No one on the base caught leprosy (25:11)  Dark-skinned people were in the colony o Explains how people get dark skin (26:00)  People in colony came from the islands (26:40) Discharge/ Life After the War  Got out of the Service in 1948 (27:00)  Put into Camp Stoneman prior to discharge and was placed on guard duty, picked up garbage (27:44)  Explained the brig and how it worked (30:37)  He was stationed here on guard duty for a month (31:03)  He couldn’t be discharged until his physical and dental work came back, and they were really sow about the dental work (31:20)  Went back to Grand Rapids area after he was discharged (31:44)  Worked for “Generous Motors,” [General Motors] (31:54)  Life back in Michigan was nice until his first winter, he liked the warm weather in the South Pacific (32:00)  Glad he got home (32:36) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KaufmanE Title A name given to the resource Kaufman, Ernie (Interview outline), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kaufman, Earnest W. Description An account of the resource Ernie Kaufman grew up in Lowell, Michigan, and was drafted into the army in 1946. He trained in Texas and Mississippi, and was then shipped to Guam. He did construction work on bases there, and then transferred to Air/Sea Rescue, where he worked in the message headquarters section. He was discharged in 1948. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Lowell Area Historical Museum (Lowell, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-06-26 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ef7a68847f23f55905e3428bed36a34d.mp4 c18ee040821f7774a7c7be2d33b6bf72 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/085400fb4589b370ea5f95639e53a602.pdf 92d9fde3e3c0e31071bb29bd16410b0a PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Donald Katt (01:01:33) (00:20) Background Information • • • • • • • • • Donald was born in Ferrysberg, Michigan on November 28, 1925 His parents and grandparents had lived in the small town for all their lives He had 8 brothers and sisters and his dad died in 1931 when he was only 5 years old Life was pretty hard during the depression, but they always had enough to eat because his mother received lots of help from other family members His father had previously owned a grocery store, but it burned down months after his death Donald went to Grand Haven Christian School and then Grand Haven High School, graduating in 1943 He never attempted to get into college because he assumed that he would be drafted into the service Many people that he went to school had been enlisting and he received his draft card in 1943 after graduation No one wanted to skip the draft because they were all anxious to fight the Germans and Japanese (3:30) Basic Training • Donald trained in Florida for 17 weeks • He then went to Alabama for advanced training • In October of 1944 he went to New York for his shipment overseas • They traveled in a convoy and the trip lasted 13 days (4:20) England • They arrived in England on November 28, 1944 and stayed there for one month • They took a ship called the Cheshire across the channel, heading for the Battle of the Bulge • They arrived in France and their duty was to contain 50,000 Germans in one area; there was a lot of artillery fighting and he often went on night patrols • The men slept in fox holes and it was very cold during the winter months • Donald and his men fought with about 40,000 French troops • He was in Europe for about 9 months and earned a combat infantry badge • The whole time he was there he kept a diary, which he was not supposed to do in case it fell into the wrong hands • His division still meets for reunions every 2 years (11:30) Pearl Harbor • When Pearl Harbor was attacked, Donald was only 16 years old and a sophomore in high school �• • • • The attack was a big shock to everyone; no one thought that they would be attacked by the Japanese Afterwards, many young men wanted to join the military He remembers when many goods and food products were beginning to be rationed, such as wheat, oil, and tin; gas was the hardest to cut back on Donald had two brothers in the Army, with one in New Guinea and the other in Singapore (16:00) Donald is Called to Active Duty • Donald went to Chicago to the Great Lakes base for testing, but found out that men were only needed in the infantry at the time • Donald had very strict training in Florida and was often on KP • He went through weapons training with an M-1 and eventually got a sharp-shooter medal • They went on 25-mile hikes at 10 pm that lasted until 6 am • They also had to be able to run for 45 miles • Donald had gained 15 pounds of muscle in his 17 weeks of training (21:25) Training in Alabama • This was more bivouacking work • They would go about 30 miles into the bush and work with machine guns • The training was much more intense, heavy military training • Donald trained altogether from February until October in 1944 (23:10) The Trip Overseas • She ship carried 8,000 men and was called the USS George Washington; it was a converted cruise ship • The living quarters were very tight • The whole time they had to zigzag to avoid German submarines • Donald was often on guard duty while on the trip • They traveled with a 13 ship convoy, but none of the ships were as big as the one that Donald traveled on • There were about 12,000 people altogether traveling in the convoy • The trip took place in November and there were many storms that made lots of people sick (27:15) Southampton • They convoy arrived in England on November 28, but the supply ship had fallen behind and they did not have much food for quite a few days • They left on Christmas Eve towards France on the Cheshire ship and the other ship, the Leopold, hand been sunk along the way • They traveled in box cars to an airfield in France (31:35) French Troops • They had been working with about 40,000 French troops and it had been hard to communicate �• • • The American men bartered with French civilians, trading US soap and cigarettes for French food The Americans got along well with the French troops The French did not have as many weapons as the Americans and they were not uniform (35:40) The Army of Occupation • Donald lived in a nice area near a river in Germany, where they just had to watch over Germans during the occupation • Donald was there for four months and then he went to a “tent city” in Marseilles to wait for Americans to be sent to fight in the Pacific • He then went to Austria for 8 months to once again serve in the Army of Occupation • He had time off to learn to ski, traveling to Switzerland • They had often been guarding a railroad station from attacks and got to know many Austrians • Donald was discharged on June 6 • While in Europe he wrote to his mom, friends, and girlfriend about three times a week each (44:30) Life After the Service • Donald took some classes in office management and learned a lot about accounting • He got a job in a small shop with only about 15 other employees • He then started a business with a friend, but they ended up not getting along and Donald sold his share • He then took classes at Davenport College in Grand Rapids, MI • He received his Associates degree in office management • Donald was working with concrete products in Ferrysberg and Muskegon • He became the township treasurer in 1955 and held the position for 38 years, retiring in 1992 (49:20) 50th Reunion Tour • Donald traveled with his wife and division to Amsterdam, Nicoise, Marseille, and Paris • They attended a ceremony near the Eiffel Tower • They went to many nice restaurants, ate great food, and drank lots of wine • The tour lasted 2 weeks and the French Navy took them out on their ships • They visited towns where previous battles had been fought and were awarded new medals � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KattD Title A name given to the resource Katt, Donald G. (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Katt, Donald G. Description An account of the resource Donald Katt served with the 66th Infantry Division during WW II. He was drafted in 1943, trained mostly in Alabama, and went to Europe late in 1944. He served in France and Germany. Most of his comments are on training, working with French troops, and serving on occupation duty in Germany. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McCauslin, Kelly (Interviewer) Spring Lake District Library (Spring Lake, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-01-08 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/512bcfdb21c67d8fd8810c0d1c8c6323.mp4 551c462bad506db3d1c3e199cb2664b7 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f3772e98ceb369a536a81201c3a4ebcf.pdf 6d64bd252e14aba12a861fcc4c5234d2 PDF Text Text August Katsma (1:00:45) (00:01) Background Information • August was born on November 11, 1917 in Grand Rapids, Michigan • His father worked in the furniture business • He left school in 1934 to work • August worked in a plating room, in construction, and at a metal office furniture manufacturer • In 1937 he joined the National Guard and was put into the 126th infantry • He played for the band in the National Guard • In the 126th infantry he was assigned to be a medic • He got married and then he was drafted after Pearl Harbor was attacked • August was working when he heard about Pearl Harbor being attacked and was concerned about what was going on overseas before the attack • On April 22, 1941 he was drafted (11:12) Training • He was sent to Fort Custer and then to Fort Riley in Kansas for Military Police training • August was taught how to do police work for about three months • He had basic training at the same time as his MP training • Next he was sent to Fort Meyer, Virginia where the officers were very strict • They had to put on full gear and march for 40 miles • His job was to do guard duty and he remained there until late 1941 • He was then sent to Boeing Field and put on the plotting board • August was part of the coastal artillery unit as a private • He was sent to a special service camp in North Carolina to be in their band and orchestra • They put on shows for the servicemen and raised money for the war �• He was also in charge of the recreation hall • August was reassigned to Camp Sibert, Alabama to Grey’s Registration Unit (28:52) Deployment • On his way to the Philippines they stopped at Pearl Harbor and August had one day leave to go on the island • After they left for Manila, the end of the war was announced • August worked in the morgue and had to document the dead • There were thousands of dead people that could not be identified • They left Manila on February 6, 1946 (36:35) Before Leaving for the Philippines • August was sent to Camp Buckner, North Carolina • He played big band music for the officers until very late at night with no extra pay • Most of the officers did not treat him well while he was in the service • August received 20 days leave when his wife was giving birth • He went into Washington DC twice; • once on leave and once during a storm because he had to direct traffic (45:06) Discharge • From Manila August went back to Hawaii on a steamer and then to San Diego • They took a train to Fort Sheridan and the whole time the Army didn’t want anyone to see the soldiers for a unknown reason • When they got to Fort Sheridan the Army tried to get them to re-enlist, but August was not interested • After his discharge he got on a bus and went home • He worked at GM and then went into trucking • August worked at Associated Trucking for 27.5 years • He lost respect for the Army because of the way he was treated � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KatsmaA Title A name given to the resource Katsma, August (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Katsma, August Description An account of the resource August Katsma was born on November 11, 1917 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. In 1937 he joined the National Guard as a medic in the 126th infantry. After the National Guard he got married and then was drafted into the Army. August trained as an MP and was in the Army's band. He was sent to North Carolina to a special service camp as a band member to raise money and play for the servicemen. Next he was sent to Camp Sibert, Alabama to Grey's Registration Unit and then Deployed to Manila in the Philippines. In Manila he worked at the morgue where he documented casualties of the war. August was sent back to the United states in February, 1946 and discharged. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-01-22 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b2779b2581d3e16c8cb95feb8e962f56.mp4 2eccd7fd2151ccb6e355f57fea74a68b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0a0b6eb0dc2ae8d5bb6ee7d916a943ab.pdf ed1dd17d86d116398872f25ae509733d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Iraq Interviewee: Joshua Karr Length of Interview: 01:02:30 Background                  He was born in 1979 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. His family grew up in Wyoming, but by the time he was born they lived in Marne, where he grew up. His dad is a Master Electrician. His mom worked at the Post Office. He started high school at Kenowa, but his parents decided to home school him for the last three years of his high school. He finished school in 1998. After school, he went out and got himself a couple jobs. He was a cook at 2 or 3 different restaurants in the following 3 or 4 years. When the 9/11 attacks happened he was actually sleeping. He had an apartment with his brother, who had woken him up to watch the T.V. At first he didn’t know why he got up to see a plane hit a building, but then he saw the second one get hit. And then someone hit the pentagon, and he knew it was war. He would speak to his recruiter 2 months later and months after that he was in boot camp. He had considered joining the military before. When he was 18, he spoke to a recruiter, but decided that it wasn’t for him at the time. He had checked in with the Navy when he was 18 because they had sent him some junk mail saying that his test scores had qualified him for the nuclear program. When he did decide to sign up for the military, he just decided it was his turn to go to war. He figured that every generation has to serve and it was his turn. His dad was the only man from his immediate family who did not go into the military. He was going to but his wife said that he couldn’t because he had kids. Two of his brothers were Navy; one of them was a lifer. He had another brother who was a Marine. After he decided to join, he had to go through some pre-screening at the recruiter’s office. They checked for height and weight requirements, criminal record and other basic things. There would be further criminal screening and ongoing physical tests after that. He would go to boot camp at Great Lakes, in Chicago. Great Lakes (4:30)    When he got there, it was the only Navy basic training camp left. They wanted to centralize because they felt too spread out having three different locations. There were about 10 groups of 80 men each who would be graduating every Friday. The training that he got was 8-10 weeks long. �                        The men in his group were from all over the country, a couple from a different part of the world. They were mostly between 18 and 20. One guy was 17½ because his parents signed a release to get him in early. He doesn’t think there was anyone in his division who was older than he was. They were close enough in age that they didn’t feel so different from each other. The basic training program didn’t allow anyone to feel differently from one another either. During his training he would have some classroom time, but it was difficult to stay awake during that because they also had a sleep deprivation program as well. No one would sleep more than 3 hours on any given night all through basic training. There was a lot of physical training. He remembers a lot of marching, but they didn’t run. He said that they were made to run everywhere in summer, but he was there in winter. Some of the guys who were below average had to run everywhere anyway. Because of the training style, he would still have to run every day in boot camp. The main emphasis of the camp was discipline and order. They wanted the men there to learn the nautical terms, learn how to wear uniforms, etc. but the main thing they had to learn was to shut up and follow orders. Adjusting to the lifestyle varied among the men of his group. Some of them would never figure it out. They actually have a reverse training transfer to keep you in boot camp indefinitely. One guy was there for 9 months and petitioned to get a promotion. You were supposed to be promoted to E2 after 9 months. Some guys there lived for it and it was much easier for them. One of the drill instructors he had who was kind of scary. He would not speak until it was time to discipline someone. Another one threw a lot of tantrums and was more lively than frightening. There was one who was just like one of the guys. He figured that was just the way things worked out, to have different kinds of drill instructors. In retrospect, he thinks it may have been that way on purpose to keep things balanced. Once he is done with boot camp, he went to Machinist School, which was also in Great Lakes. (8:34) He had to wait 3 days to have the bus take them basically across the street. This training was more academic. There was probably 15-20 guys to a class. It was the basics of mechanical works, including what things were called to how they worked. He would get a little bit of everything from electrical to plumbing. All the instructors were military Machinist Mates, except for one of his classes was an engineer. All of them were NCO’s mostly E6’s, a couple were E5’s. There were different phases of liberty. The one he was in allowed him to roam freely, but he had to be in his uniform if he was coming or going from base. There was not much to do around there, mostly he and his friends would take the train up and down the Lake Michigan coast and hit different cities along the way. Kenosha was probably where they spent the most time. �  After this portion of his training was done, he got 2 weeks of home leave to go see his family before shipping out. He would go to San Diego, where he served aboard the USS Constellation for about a year. Active Duty (11:45) The Pacific                 The “Conny” was a huge aircraft carrier, about three football fields long on top. It was tall, about 8 decks and 11 levels. It took about 3,000 men to actually run the boat and another 2-3,000 to man the aircraft on there. The enlisted men slept in rooms filled with racks. He measured his once, it was 1½ x 2 x 6 feet long. 18 cubic feet was pretty standard for each person. If you were taller than that your feet get crunched up and you don’t sleep as well as some of the smaller guys. There were two main mess decks for food. You basically stood in line until you got your food. Standing in line was probably one of the most important parts of his training, at least he thinks. He had never actually seen the ocean before he joined the Navy. When they had first gone out to sea, he had expected there to be some sort of sea sickness but there wasn’t. The carrier was just too big to be unbalanced. He could feel them go under way, but there was no rocking of any sort. He was in the fire room side of the main space, which made him a boiler operator. Since he was brand new, he was a messenger. He went around and took readings of the equipment and reported them to the guy who was actually supposed to take the readings so he could sign the log. He would run to whatever shop he needed to visit because that’s what messengers did. He did that for about 7 months. There was always something new happening, so it was never too boring. They had really pushed for different hours of guard time. At first it was 6 hours of guard time and 6 hours of down time. Most of them spent their down time sleeping because it was so hot. Eventually they got down to 4 and 8 and he managed to qualify for an upper level man. This job was a lot more interesting than his last one because he got to control the valves that controlled the boiler feed water. The boiler was a 1200 PI Foster boiler, which burned diesel fuel. The keel was laid in 1968 and the boilers were original equipment. It took a lot to keep them maintained. Almost every time they shut it down there was something they had to fix. The control systems were newer. The original watch team would have needed 50 men to operate it. They were down to about 12 men. So having about 5,000 men on the ship was more efficient than they were before. This allowed for more airplanes to be on the ship. �                       When he was based in San Diego, they were never in port there for more than a couple of weeks. They were getting ready to deploy so they were out at sea a lot testing equipment. Most of the little trials they did lasted anywhere from 1-3 weeks, but some of them went longer. At some point, they did circles around Hawaii. They would also go through the China Sea. They would stop by Hong Kong and Singapore. They would also go into the Persian Gulf. But when they got him to the base, he had to go home. So when they got to the base, they got him on a plane and finished going around the world from there back to Grand Rapids. He would fly back from Grand Rapids and got back on the ship when the war was officially declared in Iraq. They all knew it was time for the war and the only reason that they watched the news was to find out if they had declared war yet. While they were headed across the Pacific and into the Gulf, they mostly worked and slept. There were a lot of jokes going on to try and keep the place lively. Mostly they just worked and slept. When they flew him out they used both military and civilian airplanes. He was not in uniform because they were so close to war. Once they found out the war was official, everyone was very happy. They had kept the boat going, but it was pointless. All they did was drive it around in circles. Now, they had what they finally signed up to do. (22:10) Watching the news didn’t really help anyway, because they did not know what was really going on. They didn’t see the things that he saw. One time he saw a goat floating in the water, dead and bloated. Mostly though, he saw valves and gauges. There were ships all over when they got to the Arabian Sea. He saw ships from Canada, Australia, Britain, and many more from all over. They did manage to get into port at Bahrein and when they got there, they were told that there was a curse that if you did not go and see the tree of life, which was a tree growing out in the desert, that you were doomed to go back 7 times. He’s been there 6 times and has never seen the tree. He spent about 4 months in that tour in the Gulf. From there they would go to Australia. By the time they had arrived there, they would be the third aircraft carrier to dock. They would land in Perth. The Australian people were happy that the soldiers were there to help boost their economy, but they were kind of sick of soldiers by the time that his ship arrived there. During his time at sea, he would get a chance to go on land and visit at the places his ship stopped. As a junior enlisted, his liberty time was around 8 or 9 when the sun when down before he had to be back aboard the ship. In the friendlier countries, he was allowed to stay out all night. So when he got to Australia, he got off the ship and got a hotel room. He slept for about 18 hours because there was nothing there to wake him up. �         In Hong Kong, the civilians did not really notice them. He and his buddy got lost and tried to get directions from this older white man, but he didn’t understand them. His buddy would also lose his ATM card while in Hong Kong as well. He put it in an ATM machine and he didn’t know if it was because you were supposed to put the numbers in a different order or what, but they heard the shredder going in the machine and he lost his card. They finally found an office building and walked in. He felt like he had asked it 100 times, “Does anybody here speak English?” and this little guy popped up and was very excited, saying that he spoke English. He was very happy to help them out. After they left Australia, they reported into Hawaii, Pear Harbor, and stayed there for a couple of days. It was fun. He remembers a couple of older guys talking about the exchange rate there, but he didn’t believe them. Turns out you did have to exchange. It was very expensive as almost everything was twice as much as the dollar bills that they had. From there they went back to San Diego. They would decommission the Constellation when they got back. The crew would spend a lot of time gutting the ship and trying to put it back in its original condition. They were not going to scrap it, but they were basically mothballing it. This would take a couple of months. He stayed on the ship as long as he would let him. He did not want to stay in a barracks. The Atlantic (29:00)           When they were done with the ship, they could decide what they wanted to do next. While he was on the phone with his detailer, someone told him to go to Air Conditioning and Refrigeration School. So he did. And from there he would head to the east coast. He would go to Air Conditioning and Refrigeration School, around the Norfolk area for about 10 weeks. That was mostly classroom education with a little bit of laboratory. They knew that there was no point in really giving them a lot of hands-on experience because he would either be put on a new boat, which wouldn’t really need maintenance, or he would be put on an older one, where he would learn on the job. When he was in Port, it was mostly like a 9-5 job, but it was 6-4, so he got a lot of time off. The people there didn’t have a lot of opinion on the military as they were so used to it being right there in town. It wasn’t like a small town where there was a lot of support for soldiers, but they did not hate them either. He would be assigned to the USS Enterprise. It would be around the same time as the Constellation, so a bit older. This ship would be nuclear powered. He had to operate and maintain huge air conditioning units on the ship. One of them weighed 300 tons! He would also have to maintain refrigeration units as well, weighing about 5 tons. He would also have to maintain all of the peripheral units as well, like the ice makers and the water pipes. �                     It was a lot of work keeping them maintained because it was all old equipment. They had plenty of men to keep things running. There was more work sometimes more than others, but they had a pretty good maintenance system. However, some things just can’t be prevented. The nastiest job he had as a repairman was when he had to climb into the mud drum on the Constellation. It was gross. On both of the ships he had to work in the bilge. There are a lot of leaks and it is really gross down there. His work ranges from repairing pipes to replacing motors, to getting them repainted. When he finished the schooling, he would have to fly out to meet the Enterprise, which had already gone out to sea. After landing near a port, they took a private ex-military ship out to the Enterprise. When they got close enough they took a Puma to the carrier. When they got there, there was an induct orientation. They had a two-week course that went over everything. They covered racial sensitivity to where places are located on the ship. About 10% of the crew was female and they had all the same jobs as the men did. The atmosphere on the ship was uniform based. It didn’t matter your color or your gender, it depended on what uniform you wore. (39:30) Khaki enlisted are E7-E9, there are kind of elite and a group all of their own. Their job is mostly paperwork and office work. They didn’t really do anything anymore. To get to E7 was around 15 years, so many of these are career people. Most of them stayed in about 30 years. When there was time off you could go to the movie. He went to a bar in downtown Norfolk. When you are at sea, there was closed circuit T.V. on board. Sometimes, Hollywood stars would come on their ships and promote their movies. They would get to watch them before anybody else. Ben Affleck came out with his movie Paycheck. The movie was awful. Drew Carey came out once, some baseball player as well. Sometimes they would get time to use the email or the phone. The phone was almost impossible to get through, but the emailing was a little more convenient. There times when they shut down the computers so no one could use them. When they turn them back on, there was usually a line of people waiting to use them. He likes the snail mail, aka the postal service mail. Part of it was because his mom worked for the post office. Another thing was because it would almost a guarantee that you would get something. There would be times when some would accidentally get knocked overboard and your care packages were not always in good condition. He wrote home a lot. When he say something was really neat to him he would write home. He doesn’t know about mail, but all electronic communication is subject to monitoring and termination if necessary. When he was on the Enterprise they went to the Persian Gulf. There was a port there near Dubai where they would get off and look around. They called it “the sandbox”. It �                  was just a piece of land the military bought or borrowed or something and built a huge wall around it. Sometimes if it was safe enough they could take a cab out to Dubai. He was over there on the Enterprise from 2004-2006. They would travel to a couple of different places in that time. They once went to England and it happened to be the 4th of July. That was a really bad idea. There were a lot of fights and they ran out of handcuffs so a security officer had to come back and grab a bunch of zip-ties. A lot of the fights started in pubs and the Americans would celebrate and the British would not really care about it. When they got back under way he did get to talk to some of the guys who were in the fights. The fights were mostly American Pride vs. the British Pride. He would also go through the Suez Canal, but he didn’t go topside. Instead he had to watch a machine that wasn’t running. He thought it was really stupid. But some of the guys who were topside said if they had rock they could throw to one side and hit Africa and throw to the other side to hit Europe. Egypt had a bunch of tanks parked up on the ridge there in case any of the passing ships started something. (50:00) He remembers when they went to Seattle. It took about 3 weeks to get there, mostly because Navy ships don’t travel in straight lines. But he remembers pulling into the port and he smelled the pine trees and he just wanted off the ship. He wanted trees instead of people. You get tired of people eventually when on a ship. He would mostly hang out with the guys he worked with. When he was in Norfolk he kept to himself. When his time was up, he considered staying on, but he really didn’t want it. Advancement exams were part of it. He would advance quickly at first, but eventually he got passed over for E5 promotion. So when it was time for him to get out they tempted him with E5 promotion, but he felt they had missed their chance for that. He felt that he served his time. He had no idea what he wanted to do when he got back. He had GI bill eligibility and he thought he would go to school eventually, but what he really wanted was to relax and get some “any Joe” job, which he did. He would work at a liquor store for a while. He loved it, but he didn’t know why. January of 2006 was when he went out. Post Duty (54:55)    When he got out, he was actually home, on terminal leave. He kind of had mixed feelings about that because he was still in, but he wasn’t. It was just weird. He would go to college as Grand Rapids Community College. With an Associates Degree, he thought he would have a higher paid job. �           He thought the experience he got on the ship would help him get a job, but that didn’t help either. When he met with the heating and cooling guys, they didn’t want to retrain him from what he saw on the ship to what he would see in homes. From his experience in the Navy, he would always remember going around the world twice. Even before he learned to drive. He also got to serve his country in a time of need. He also feels that he has some pretty awesome bragging rights for where he’s been and what he’s done. One time, he looked up the word veteran in the dictionary, just to see what it said, and it is synonymous with the word “old”. So he feels old. He thinks everyone should do it. In fact, if everyone did join, then they could probably shorten the enlistment time from 4 years to 2 years. Mostly though, he thinks that if everyone served, this country would be a bit stronger. When they were on the Enterprise, they found videos on the ship. They don’t know who made them or when, but they watched them. One was about a man who found a bra on the ship and took it to the incinerator room and burned it. He thought it was a pretty funny movie. He would see some of the natives in Bahrein were burning the US flag. It was a little unsettling. There was also a time where he heard a man shouting a prayer and they didn’t know what to do. It was strange. Before he got off at any of the places, he had to learn about some of the things that you did or did not do when at that specific city. For example, giving an Arab the “thumbs up” is like giving us the middle finger. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KarrJ Title A name given to the resource Karr, Joshua (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Karr, Joshua Description An account of the resource Joshua Karr served in the US Navy from 2002-2006, during the war with Iraq. The first half of his enlistment would be spent in the Pacific on the USS Constellation, which was sent to the Persian Gulf when the Iraq War started. He worked primarily in the engine room. When the Constellation was decommissioned, he transferred to the Enterprise, which was based at Norfolk and cruised in the Atlantic. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-01-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bfd1bbc46c7ae8634ec2279f9aefbbb3.mp4 95ae53ba598f219cfa2cb0f1aee6a371 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/22c6bd8a9e07a74fa519becd67ade019.pdf 20279d331adf7ed449d36c8918ea2068 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Iraq War John Kangas Interview Total Time: 1:13:07 Background  (00:17) Raised in Cedar Springs, MI o Born in 1981  (00:30) His mom stays at home, and dad works at GM  (00:38) Graduated in 2000 o Became a father shortly after graduating o Worked, and got laid off o Was unemployed when 9/11 happened o Lived with his parents at the time, saw it happen on the news  (1:41) Says that enlisting didn’t have much to do with 9/11, the biggest reason was that he was unemployed o Remembers selling coupon books door to door  (2:02) Initially went to the Air Force, but they turned him down because he had a child  (2:18) Went over to the Army  (2:30) Went to recruiting office, took practice test, then to Lansing o Very high pressure situation  (3:15) According to his test, there were jobs that he qualified for, but half of them were filled o Had to pick from 4 choices o He picked radar  (3:40) Mentions that there is a lot of lying that went on in the recruitment process  (4:20) Radar was considered a combat arms job o The guy who told him about the job was a career NCO � (4:44) Mr. Kangas went on a delayed entry program, lasted two weeks Training  (5:12) Went to Ft. Sill, Oklahoma, for training  (5:20) As soon as they got there, 2 AM, went to bed o Remembers reading and writing on the bunk  (5:53) Said the facilities dated to before Vietnam, except for the training sites  (6:20) During the first weeks, his experience depended on knowledge of the military and regulations, said most of them didn’t know much o Didn’t understand why they cleaned the barracks at 3 AM in the dark until he got out and understood the regulations o It was because the drill sergeants didn’t want to get caught  (7:23) A lot of emphasis on physical training o Ran 6-8 miles a day, but they were told they only ran 3 miles o Said he wasn’t in great shape when he got there o Basic training got him into very good shape  (8:15) Basic training lasted 6 weeks  (8:23) People couldn’t “wash out”, but sometimes people were kicked out o Those who were trying to figure out how to get out failed, because there was no way out  (9:22) In his unit, the drill sergeants kept them at the same pace the entire time, even at graduation and afterwards o They found out their drill sergeants weren’t getting down time because of 9/11  (10:10) Drill sergeants kicked everyone out after graduation; Mr. Kangas said this was illegal  (10:30) Went to AIT, got actual job title here o Stayed at Sill  (11:07) About 4 others he trained with in basic who went over to AIT with him  (11:15) This was where he learned about his job and physical training every morning � (11:27) At this level, drill sergeants treated them better  (12:00) In AIT, he learned mobile radar, all on trucks o About 9 weeks o A big part of the training was learning how to set up  (13:08) Talks about fire guard duty o When everyone else is sleeping, someone had to stay up, and they rotated Overseas  (13:46) Got shipped to Germany after training  (14:00) Sent over in October, 2002 to Bamberg  (14:20) “Joined the fold” on arrival, assigned to a unit  (14:28) Assigned to Unit 1/33, 1st Battalion, 33rd Field Artillery  (14:53) When he first showed up, half of his unit was gone because of rotations  (15:30) Said they were training for Kosovo  (15:57) Used radar to specifically identify mortar positions, looking for aircraft, etc.  (16:11) Spent a year in Germany  (16:22) Woke up, worked out, did radar run times o If radar wasn’t run, it would break down o If there wasn’t anything happening, someone would create something for them to do o Talks about putting up tents  (17:02) Got weekends and government holidays off o German holidays would count depending on the sergeant’s opinion o Drank a lot during his time off o Tried to fight for his wife and child to come over to Germany, but it was hard to do  (18:05) Said there was an MWR, had big screen TV, maybe some video games  (18:32) When he first got to Germany, all of the equipment they used was from Vietnam o They had tape decks, other equipment from the 80’s �o He heard that Germany was the last to get newer technology  (20:06) Found out he was going to Iraq 8 months into his first assignment  (20:37) When the Iraq conflict first started, they couldn’t go anywhere at first because the Germans were angry and protesting o Couldn’t go out to drink o Mostly locked down o Watched CNN just as much as civilians  (21:54) Mentions that in Iraq, they stayed in one spot, protecting the bases  (22:27) Mr. Kangas feels that they should have spent more time showing them how to use the radar because that was the main focus o There was some training though  (23:05) Went to Iraq in 2004 during winter o About February  (23:40) First they went to Kuwait, did some training and learned more about what they’d be doing in Iraq  (24:04) They took all of their equipment and convoyed to their destination o 4 day drive through Iraq  (24:17) In the first month, they were at Balad, Anaconda Air Force Base  (24:44) Mr. Kangas said the drive there was “brutal,” no sleep o He was driving, and they picked up hitch hikers  (25:20) Says that if their vehicle looked impervious, the enemies would understand it to be impervious  (26:20) Remembers that IED strikes would back things up and make driving across the country even longer o Convoys delayed by a half an hour, etc o Emphasis put on keeping track of convoys  (27:11) At Balad, there weren’t enough radar units o Needed 6, they only had 4  (28:06) Went to a small base in Iraq that was about 30 miles north of the previous one �o Got mortared every day o It was in the middle of a town, so it was hard to point the radar specifically  (29:05) There were other parts of the 1st infantry division there  (29:22) At that point, they were just defending themselves o Pointed radar and sent infantry over to handle it  (29:50) Stayed there for about 2 months and moved to another base which was between Balad and Fallujah o They lived in an old hanger o Cleaned it up o Easier place to operate than before o Two different types of radars, Mr. Kangas was on the smaller one o The big radar was large enough to jam the radars at Anaconda o At the same time, the enemy was making the same adjustments o “Cat and mouse”  (32:06) Talked about civilian populations o Stayed “hunkered down”  (33:17) Stayed in the 3rd place most of his deployment  (33:54) His total time in Iraq was a year  (34:09) Wasn’t really sure how long he’d be staying o When they got there, their sister unit was replaced by the 1st Cavalry o They went home, got off the plane and back on o They also thought they may not be there a whole year  (35:10) All of the 1st infantry division went at the same time o His battalion was split up because of their job o His group was called a battery, set up just like a field artillery unit  (36:12) 6 guys in his radar unit  (36:36) There were ups and downs in their morale o Going into the war, they were told it would end soon, told to prepare for only being in 6 months �o After they got out, 15 month deployments started happening  (37:16) Says his section was lucky to have no casualties, but a lot of close calls  (37:44) He did see damaging effects of battle; mentions that wounded people from the insurgency came in and out o Talked about scandals, heard screams o Saw casualties, but nobody in his unit got hurt  (38:31) Reaction to getting mortared became 2nd nature because it happened so often o One officer was skittish  (39:17) Said there was nothing else to do but accept the reality of being attacked  (39:38) Used to be random targets  (41:53) After he finished a year, 3 day process to Germany o At the time, they took a military flight right back to Germany as opposed to staying in Kuwait or a couple of weeks  (43:00) Mr. Kangas had 6-8 months left on his enlistment o Spent the rest of his time in Germany  (43:20) He said the Germans weren’t very happy to see them o But their economy depended on them  (44:31) Learned very little German because most of the time he was training o Everyone on the base knew English  (45:01) At the end of his enlistment, they tried to get him to reenlist o Told him he would get recalled o High pressure situation o The impression he got was that they told him he would fail o They offered him a choice of duty station, enlistment bonus, and a guarantee for the next rank o Mr. Kangas felt this wasn’t right  (46:40) He was a specialist E4; corporal  (47:00) When one first enlists, it’s an 8 year commitment o 4 years active, 4 years inactive �o At any point within that time frame, he could get called back  (47:34) Got back to US in October 2005 o Was on unemployment for 6 months o Got to spend time with wife and daughter o Got to travel around the country a bit o Worked at Costco o Eventually worked at a dial-up internet company, then to Comcast o Tech support at Comcast  (48:19) After working at Comcast for about a year, he got a letter with orders o Had to call a number and set up plane tickets  (49:18) Sent to Ft. Benning, Georgia, for two weeks o Didn’t know where he was going after that o Spent the first week in civilian clothes; there was a lot of drinking o In-processing, medical stuff o There were people there who’d been seriously injured and they were trying to push them through o Lots of retirees came back o Also Vietnam vets o He said that older people were trying to get back in with the promise of more money, and the younger people were trying to get out  (51:31) It was supposed to be a refresher in basic training, but Mr. Kangas didn’t feel that it was o AIT training was the same thing; also spent time drinking o Nobody knew what was going on o At Ft. Sill, he knew he would be supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom, but didn’t know the capacity of it o The last two days there, got orders, sent to Ft. Hood, Texas  (52:54) Said that nobody knew who they were at Ft. Hood o At airport for 4 hours �o Medical units who were rotating out picked them up; they didn’t know what to do with them o (53:44) Did nothing for two weeks but watch movies o Was attached to the Wyoming National Guard o Unit was 1st in the 15th Fires Brigade  (54:20) They went through an interview process for a job o Found out they would be driving trucks from Kuwait to Iraq o Had nothing to do what they’d previously done in the military  (55:40) At Ft. Hood, they went through a crash course of what it meant to be in the Army o 4 months of deployment in Ft. Hood o Went back to Iraq  (57:19) Stayed in Kuwait first, like the first time  (57:51) Went back to Iraq on July 4th, 2009 o Same situation as before, except less attacks o Never fired his weapon once during this time o Drove 4-8 hours from Kuwait to Iraq back and forth o 7-8 months of this o (59:17) They drove out at night; there wasn’t really a strict schedule o On a night time schedule  (1:01:05) When he got recalled, there were a lot of women in his unit (none the first time)  (1:01:40) Said that work was done effectively, but worried that if something happened, he may not be able to trust the guy next to him  (1:03:00) More than a quarter of his unit was made of returning veterans o They stuck together  (1:03:35) Said there wasn’t any problems in his unit with women, but heard about a lot of rape that happened in other units o Because of this, there were sexual harassment briefs � (1:05:30) Said it was combative between his unit and the National Guard unit  (1:06:26) Saw that stress was getting to others in the recall unit even though it was a lower combat situation o Stress was 10x higher o Some people were so angry about being recalled; stuck the entire year  (1:07:00) He said after the first time they lightly talked about PTSD, but not much because they saw it as a sign of weakness o Talked about a guy who needed help, addicted to sleeping pills, said he needed help himself, ended up dying in Iraq on a motorcycle o On the 2nd deployment, the mentality that PTSD was weakness had changed  (1:08:25) Said that basic training was made easier the second time o They were trying to mitigate suicides  (1:09:15) Mr. Kangas bought his own plane ticket home after he was done Going Home  (1:09:54) When they got back to Ft. Hood, it was a race to leave  (1:10:03) Got back home in late March or early April of 2010  (1:10:12) Worked for a few months, laid off, was on unemployment  (1:10:19) Had plans to go back to school  (1:10:31) Said that he learned to be punctual, other positive effects, but something negative is alcoholism o Knows many people who served that drink a lot  (1:11:24) When they got back to Germany, drug use was high among military members o Meth and ecstasy available  (1:12:26) He says the stress of his job was unique; sometimes sat in the box for days at a time by his self waiting for something to happen o Complete boredom to absolute fear in a second  (1:12:56) Says that he would do it all over again � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KangasJ1115V Title A name given to the resource Kangas, John (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kangas, John Description An account of the resource John Kangas was born in Cedar Springs, Michigan in 1981. After graduating high school he was unemployed for awhile before enlisting in the army in 2001. He received his training at Ft. Sill. He worked the radar, assigned to 1st Battalion, 33rd Field Artillery. Mr. Kangas spent almost a year in Germany before going to Iraq. He worked on three different bases in or near Balad and Fallujah while staying in Iraq for a year. He then spent more time in Germany before going home. He was recalled into the military in 2009 and served in Iraq for another 7-8 months driving a truck back and forth from Kuwait to Iraq. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Iraq War, 2003-2011--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-06-09 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives