713 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3945975e2ec80a7ed344581a9d015431.mp4 14ea60466305ff6f1ee64124489c4754 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4f76f78191b095f85b4697bd3d6d8def.pdf 70d564da28f395e98a0410a8690c5f00 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Name of Interviewee: Ronald Leistra Name of War: Korean War Length of Interview: (00:08:50) Pre-Enlistment Enlisted because he knew he probably would be drafted (0:40) Enlisted in the Navy because it was a better route than the Army (1:00) Training Boot camp was the toughest part of his time in the Navy (1:40) Marching, classes, testing, rolling clothes to fit into sea bags (2:30) Commander would let them practice rolling clothes in the latrine at night (3:15) Enlistment Was sent to a naval air station in Barbers Point, HI for two years (4:10) Went to the beach, played tennis, went to Honolulu for fun (4:35) Worked in a special unit that handled maps, and delivered them to aircraft carriers headed to Korea (5:00) Because it was a special unit, they did not have to stand watch or have inspections (5:00) Eight hour days, free weekends (5:10) Once a week, one person had to stay in the safe where they housed the top secret maps, in case of spies (5:50) Reassigned to Whidbey Island, another naval air station in Washington state (7:15) Post-Enlistment Went to Washington State College and the University of Washington on the GI Bill (7:20) Became a teacher at Portland Community College (7:30) Taught for 41 years (7:55) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LeistraR Title A name given to the resource Leistra, Ronald M. (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Leistra, Ronald M. Description An account of the resource Ronald Leistra served in the US Navy during the Korean War. He enlisted in the Navy because he knew he had a very good chance of being drafted. During his time in the service, Ronald served at Barbers Point in Hawaii, and at Whidbey Island in Washington. His units handled maps and made sure they were secure. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Brinks, Isaac (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-05-22 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c70fa7c654e5541a02501493e83e90c0.mp4 da348d1792c8cf24364a4a8d11a1c639 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5d44256ead1c04c77a83f1c61729eec8.pdf cee2cde81ea931297648616b70541c22 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW BOB LEIBECKE Born: Cincinnati, Ohio Resides: Dayton, Ohio Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, October 6, 2012 Interviewer: Bob, can you start off with some background on yourself? To begin with, where and when were you born? I was born in Cincinnati, Ohio, my father was a WWII vet, and we lived there briefly when I was very young. He was recalled to active duty for the Korean War and from that point forward he went back in and stayed back in after having served in WWII, so although I was born in Cincinnati, I never really spent any time there, so it’s a series of military posts and overseas assignments for my father. Interviewer: Where did you wind up during high school? All over the place--in Paris, France, and Prince George County, Virginia, are the two places I went to high school. Interviewer: When you were in Paris were you in an American school? Yes, it was run for the Department of Defense. 1:01 Interviewer: What year did you graduate from high school then? 1965 Interviewer: Upon graduation what did you do? Well, I had applied to the Citadel and VMI, and VMI was my first choice. I was accepted there, so I entered VMI in 1965 and graduated in May of 1969 with a degree in history. 1 �Interviewer: Now, talk a little bit about what kind of military training you were getting at VMI, or how does that work into your curriculum? Well, in those days VMI was considered a branch materiel school, so it was Army ROTC, although you had a choice of Air Force and Marine Corps in those days. My chosen branch was armor, I thought I was going to be assigned to armor, and we trained in armor. When I say branch materiel we actually trained in that particular branch, so we had tanks and stuff like that. 2:06 Commissioning in those days was mandatory, so I believe ninety-five percent of my class was commissioned. Today that’s not true, but we got commissioned and I believe about seventy percent of my class ended up in Vietnam at some point. The military life—it’s a military college, but the actual U.S. Army part of it was pretty much integrated into barracks life, the ROTC instructors, which were regular Army and Air Force, were part of the tactical staff within the barracks, so in—one of my historian roommates reflected in those days, it operated very much like a service academy because everything was fused together. Not so much the case today, because people don’t have to serve in the military after that. Interviewer: So, did you have kind of that tightly regulated daily schedule in the manner that you have in a service academy, like when you get up? 3:05 Certainly, no difference, no difference, I mean, uniforms, regulation, can’t wear civilian clothes, I mean it was really like being in the army. Interviewer: What sort of backgrounds did the students being with them and what portion were army brats? 2 �There was a pretty good number of them, and I would say maybe half of the people there were from Virginia, but half were from other states, and you find a pretty good portion of people who were acquainted, one way or the other, with the military. Interviewer: Was it relatively easy for you to adjust to that militarized life because that was the world you lived in? No, no, VMI is a very tough, harsh environment as would be any service academy or the Citadel. You can’t say because my father was in the military it was going to make it any easier for me. 4:01 It’s a—I don’t know how to describe the experience, either you get it or you don’t, and there’s nothing that really prepares you for that. Interviewer: There’s no mom at VMI. No Interviewer: Now, this is probably kind of an interesting time to be in, what is essentially a service academy, 1965 to 1969. Vietnam ramps up significantly, you get the Tet Offensive; you get the anti-war movement going on in the country, and all this sort of stuff. What level of awareness did you have of what was going with Vietnam or responses to Vietnam in those years? Oh, there’s a high awareness of Vietnam, but not such a high awareness of what went on in the rest of the country, because VMI is its own community. We’re within our own post compound. Interviewer: And it was not going to be a home for anti-war protests or things like that. No, not at all 3 �Interviewer: Not that group—so, did you have people who would come in, VMI people who served in Vietnam and were telling stories about what it was like? 5:07 Oh, absolutely, the tactical staff there, they had all been in Vietnam. Alumni would come back and talk to us and say, “Man, I was with the 82nd”, and whatever. We got some stories, you know, and then through ROTC, it was being taught how to survive and it was integrated into military science as the topic. Interviewer: As you’re going through, are you pretty much expecting to wind up in Vietnam? Oh, absolutely, in fact, I made sure it happened. Interviewer: You were determined? You actually wanted to go? Yeah, because at the very end, before you graduate, you sign what’s called the “dream sheet” of your assignments, and it was so simple, I just wrote down RVN, that’s all I had to do, I didn’t even have to spell it out. Interviewer: What motivated you and why did you want to do there? 6:04 I don’t know a sense of adventure perhaps, I don’t know. Interviewer: I guess if there was a job to be done for the army it was primarily there. Yeah Interviewer: So, you graduate in 1969, what happens then? A week—in May, I forget the exact date in May, mid-May I’m going to say, a week later I’m at Fort Benning signing in to the Officer Infantry Basic Course, and while I’m there they say, “Do you want to sign-up for Airborne school and Ranger school?” “Oh yeah, sure”, so I spent the first half, most of the summer in Infantry Officer Basic and there 4 �upon I signed up for Airborne school, and then when it came up for my Ranger class assignment, that wasn’t going to be until February, the following February. Now this is August that I’m finishing up Airborne school, so I end up going to Fort Ord, California. 7:06 I thought I was going to an infantry battalion at Fort Ord. I got out there and they just do whatever they want to even though I was an Infantry Officer. They said, “Oh, eventually you’re going to be in the transportation corps, go over to this truck company”, out in the middle of nowhere, which is at camp—where was it? Oh, Hunter Liggett Military Reservation, which is in the middle of nowhere. I ended up spending a couple of months in a truck company. You’re supposed to be doing platoon work, you’re supposed to be working with troops getting ready to go overseas, so that was there idea, so it was working with troops, but it wasn’t infantry. Interviewer: To back up a little bit, what sort of a curriculum did they have for your officer school in the first place, the first school you go to? It’s all basic infantry tactics, defense, familiarization with a number of different weapons, a lot of map reading, basic soldiering skills. 8:09 Now, we already had that because we were from ROTC, but they’re just taking it a step further. Interviewer: Are you being now trained by people who have been to Vietnam and come back? Yeah, I would say just about—yeah, really Interviewer: Were you learning things that you hadn’t learned at a previous level, things that might be useful later? Yes and no, some of it was repetitive Interviewer: Then with jump school how did they run that? 5 �It lasted three weeks, physical conditioning, jumping out of a thirty-four foot tower, eventually you get these big, high towers where they pull you up, 250 feet up—I think they call it a 250 foot tower, and then release the parachute, and eventually you load up on an airplane and you go and jump. Interviewer: At this point, were they doing anything with helicopters, or just airplanes? It was just airplanes. 9:06 Interviewer: So, you’ve done that infantry training, you go to the truck unit, now was that just a temporary layover? Yeah, I think the wisdom of the army, in those days, they wanted you to serve in a troop unit before going to Vietnam, and you’re supposed to do that. A buddy of mine, now in Dayton, that owns a place, he was a little ahead of me, and they sent him to the 82nd Airborne. I said, “Hey man that’s great, you actually go to go with an airborne unit before you went”, because we were both in the 101st, and he said, “Man, they put me on courts and borts”, they gave him a staff job before he was supposed to go and lead troops, you know, so, you just don’t know what the army’s going to do. Interviewer: You knew at this point that you were going to the 101st? No, you don’t find that out until you get in country. Interviewer: Now, is there a point where—you said there was a wish list where you would go, and are you also able to sort of pick what unit you get assigned to or any other options? 10:01 Do you mean as far as getting in the 101st? Interviewer: Yeah 6 �No, in fact there’s a picture of a guy in the Ripcord book, his name is Smith, he was not in my battalion, but he and I came into country together. We were down at Bien Hoa waiting for out orders and we just lounged around there for a couple of days. There was this big bulletin board and they would put the orders up, and Smith came running in the door and said, “You guys saddle up, I think we’re going to the 101s”, and I think there was kind of a groan. These were officers that were billeted together, and yeah, Smith's in—his pictures in the book there. Interviewer: So, why was there a groan for the 101st? What did the groan represent? Because of Hamburger Hill, and there were—I guess we’d been reading the press reports and stuff and the 101st was kind of where the action was. Bear in mind, the Cav [1st Cavalry Division]—we came in the first of May, the Cav was in Cambodia on that incursion, so there was a whole lot of stuff going there, but I think we were seeing that the casualties were coming out of the 101st. 11:05 Maybe there was a lot of shock and awe going on in Cambodia, but we knew there was some nasty stuff going on with the 101st, which turned out to be true. Interviewer: You are kind of learning bit by bit more about what is going on in Vietnam? Back up a little bit again. How long did you spend with the truck unit? I was there through the end of 1969 and then I packed up and headed back up to Fort Benning to go to Ranger school. I was in Ranger school, I think, from around the first of February through the end of April. I graduated from Ranger school, went back to Virginia, packed, unpacked, drove down to Charleston Air Force Base, got on a plane and went down to Panama for two weeks to jungle school, came back, packed, unpacked, and 7 �then went to Washington, caught a flight to the west coast to head on out to Vietnam. 12:05 Interviewer: How does Ranger school compare to the other schools you had been to? Ranger school is bad, I mean it’s awful, there’s no sleep, it’s just one constant—there’s a certain amount of schooling, but it becomes one continuous patrol where you just never stop, you know. You don’t get any sleep—there’s three phases, there’s three week at Fort Benning, three weeks in the mountains in Georgia, and then three weeks in the swamp in Florida, and Florida was probably the worst. You just—you’re in swamps all the time. You’re supposed to do three jumps down there, but I only got to do two because out mountain jump was cancelled because of high winds. Interviewer: Was Florida ultimately good preparation for Vietnam or was it not for your part of Vietnam? Well, Florida’s not a jungle and it was still pretty chilly, we were winter Rangers, so it was pretty cool down there. 13:04 Interviewer: What proportions of the people that start Ranger school finish it? You know, I don’t know. I saw a recent movie and they showed all these people getting washed out. I mean, I’m not sure—a lot, and they get a lot of people right in the beginning where you have to be able to swim. Water, I mean you walk off the diving board with a full pack of gear into a swimming pool blind folded and that panics people. You know, like walking the plank on a pirate ship, full gear and all that. But at VMI I had been drown proofed. In those days you could not graduate from VMI unless you passed RAT swimming, and that was just one of the most brutal swimming classes, I 8 �mean, they made sure. So, in Ranger school I just walked off, plopped into the water and swam to the side. It was like being back at VMI. 14:05 Interviewer: When you do that, do you keep your pack and your gear when you’re swimming? Yeah, because the idea is you would sink to the bottom. I didn’t sink; I went down a little ways, popped up and started swimming sideways. I knew I’d hit the side of the pool sometime. So, VMI was great for getting me ready for swimming—you didn’t graduate, there were first classmen at VMI still struggling to try to get through RAT swimming, and that’s the first year you’re there. Interviewer: Now, how physically do they get you out to Vietnam? You ship out to California; do you fly out of there? I fattened up in California--that was a cushy job, so I started running. I thought, “Man you better start getting in shape for Ranger school”. I was porked up a little bit. I remember looking at myself when we got back from the mountains. You know, you only get one ration a day in Ranger school, except in the winter, in the mountains, they let you have two because you’re burning up all this energy. 15:04 I looked and my stomach was gone. Whatever fat I gained in California was gone. Interviewer: From Ranger school, do you get any leave time before they ship you off to Vietnam or do you go straight out? In this particular—some people maybe, but in my case no, everything just hit—into Ranger school, two weeks in Panama, off to Vietnam, just bang, bang, bang. Interviewer: What was the Panama experience like? 9 �Kind of worthless, I mean I had a really bad attitude in Panama, I just came out of Ranger school and I don’t know if I had even asked for this school or not. The only good thing about it, it took two weeks off of your tour in Vietnam, they dropped it. When you started your two weeks in Panama it was like starting in Vietnam, so. Interviewer: You were overseas at that point. Yeah, I just came back to the states, basically, to just change planes, that’s what it amounted to. Panama, it was just more of the same thing only in the jungle, and I thought, “Oh god, how many more map reading courses am I going to go on?” 16:06 Interviewer: Did the jungle there bear any resemblance to what you were in in Vietnam? Yeah, pretty much with the usual nasty animals out there, yeah, jungle’s jungle. Interviewer: So, at some level it might have had some value? Yeah, probably acclimatization, and getting use to hot weather, yeah, that part of it would have been. Interviewer: But because you had Ranger school, and the rest of you, would they do things like dump you in the middle of the jungle and say, “Get out, find your way out”? No, it was a lot of classroom and the final thing was some kind of map reading course at night. I just–it was one more map course. Interviewer: And you had done that already. You go back to the states; they put you on plane and send you to Vietnam? Yes, Interviewer: Did you fly a commercial plane or a military one? 10 �It was commercial—I mean it was a charter flight. 17:01 Interviewer: What was the mood on the plane like going over? I don’t remember. I got a roommate that was a FAC and he wrote a book. He made a whole book out of just flying to Vietnam. I mean, how he remembers everything is beyond me because the whole mood of the airplane—I just remember being on it and that’s it. Interviewer: Where did you land in Vietnam? I think it was at Bien Hoa. Interviewer: And what was your impression of Vietnam when you got there? Interesting because I mentioned the Cav being on the Cambodian Incursion and the Cav’s headquarters was right on the—the air force was on one side of the runway and the Cav’s on the other side of it. We literally got off the airplane, and there’s guys right out of the Boonies with either Cambodian or North Vietnamese, and they got them there with handcuffs behind them, and stuff like that. These guys are right out of the jungle and that’s quite an experience to see this just stepping right off the airplane. 18:06 That’s because the Cavs were right there and they flew out of Bien Hoa. Interviewer: What do they do with you when you land? Do they just park you someplace? There again, bad memory. You’re stuck; it’s in processing just like any military in processing. You’re in a barracks, there you wait until the orders are posted, and like I mentioned this Tory Smith, who’s picture’s in the book there, you know, he was on my flight in and in the barracks there a couple of days and he said, “Hey, we got orders, 11 �we’re going to the 101st”, so that’s—the next thing you know you’re packing you stuff, getting on a C130 and heading for Phu Bai. Interviewer: Physically, where in Vietnam is this Phu Bai if someone is looking at a map? Is it way north? Have you seen a map? Interviewer: I have, but we’re doing this, in part, for a broader audience. Ok. Phu Bai, I think it’s in the province—the northern most province in South Vietnam is Quang Tri Province. 19:03 Then the second most northern province is, it will come to me----Phu Bai is right next to Hue, So picture Hue, the old imperial city—it will come to me, that province, when I see a map and I have maps. Interviewer: That’s ok, that can be looked up. Outside of Hue is good enough. It’s outside of Hue, and that is the main landing field for the 101st. They had a runway that would take C130’s and that’s where everybody in process. Interviewer: You in process there and then what do they do with you? They send you off and I went to Camp Evans to the Screaming Eagle Replacement Training Center, also known as "serts", have you heard that one? A week in "serts" was just a little vacation to get use to the jungle and all that. There was—this is where my memory lets me down, I think I ended up with some people that were in my Ranger class. 20:07 They were showing us rappelling and we were almost laughing at the rappelling because we were doing other types, you know, Australian front forward rappelling, which was advanced techniques, but you know, it was just more of the same stuff. They tried to give us a little bit of the sense of history of the 101st and they did a miserable job of that because today I know so much more about the 101st. Had I realized the historic value of 12 �the unit I went to and I just took it for granted, I had no idea who these guys were and you know, we’re famous today, 506 Infantry, but you know they just didn’t do a very— we were at Bastogne and all that, well I knew that, big whoop. Interviewer: Now, that class did it have enlisted as well as officers together? Yeah, it was everybody thrown together. 21:00 Interviewer: So, you have some guys with no exposure to this kind of training and other people who have. Yeah, I’m just saying the people I was with, especially us guys—I’m almost sure there were guys from my Ranger class and we were all there together. For the life of me I can’t remember—if I could find Smith and say, “Were you in my Ranger class?” I’m not real sure, but I know he was there when we in processed. He ended up going to 1/506 and I went to 2/506. Interviewer: So, what was the specific assignment then that you got, what unit did you go to? The platoon leader, 1st platoon, in C Company of 2/506 Interviewer: When did you actually join them? Well, now this gets hazy, I’ve gotten the dates screwed up, but as near as I can tell it must have been about mid-May of 1970, because I had a week—there was four or five days of SERTS and I remember ending Ranger school sometime in April and then you got jungle school and everything just runs together and I got the dates mixed up sometimes, but I would say about mid-May. 22:02 Interviewer: Was the platoon in the field when you joined it? 13 �Yeah, they took—they put me in a Loach, took me out to the middle of nowhere and said, “That’s where you’re going pal”, and there was this little bald knob and it was a LZ blown on top of a mountain and they were—that was to insert me and have me take over the platoon, and I join the company in the field. Interviewer: Now, were you replacing someone who was rotating out or someone who had been hit? I was told I was replacing Bob Wallace. I never knew this until I came to the Ripcord reunion last year and I met Bob and we were joking. He had apparently left before I got there, so there was a gap of time, but it was all under Captain Vazquez. Interviewer: So, you’re joining the company in the field, and what kind of a reception do you get? You land there and get off the helicopter and now what? I don’t remember, I mean I got put to work right away. I had a platoon sergeant and I can't remember if the whole company was together at the time, but it wasn’t long before I met Vazquez. 23:08 He put my platoon on point to go—we had two platoons together and company CP and maybe a third, I can’t remember. Interviewer: He liked to keep them separate, he said. Huh? Interviewer: He said he liked to keep the platoons separate. Did you talk to Vazquez? Interviewer: Yes We operated a lot separately, but I’m the new guy, so Vazquez is there and he said, “I want you take point”, and point, that means the platoon leaders running the map and the compass, and he said, “This is where we’re going to go”, okay. As time turned out 14 �Vazquez was a fast mover, he liked to move really fast. Now I don’t know whether I move fast or slow, but you know, we were heading for the point and he said, “Ok, we’ve been moving for the better part of the day, I’m going to have the other platoon come up and take over, but they’re experienced and they know what they’re doing, and all that” and within an hour we were right at the point that I had picked out. 24:05 We could see this hilltop and once you start heading for there you can’t see anything but jungle, and we ended up right where we were supposed to be and all that. I thought, “Ok, good”, I mean—so, Vazquez came over, I’m not sure if he remembers this, but everyone says that he has a phenomenal memory, and he said, “You did good, that was okay”, and coming from Vazquez, I thought, “Ok”, even though he may have thought I was moving too slowly, or maybe wasn’t sure that I was on the right track, but we did get to where he wanted us to be, so I thought, “Ok, fine”. I truly regret—I only had two weeks with Vazquez before we had to “stand down” , and I could have learned so much from that man, you know, but I’m thankful for the two weeks I had before he was replaced. Interviewer: Now, when he had you moving were you going on trails or off? Yeah—well, I can’t say, we were on trails a lot and I’ve read the literature and thought about it, it’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t. 25:08 If you stay on a trail you can get from point A to point B pretty quick, but if you do that you run the risk of ambushes. If you cut across country, which we did, then it’s going to take longer, or you might run into some stuff and it’s machete time you know, if the area had been defoliated and things have grown up then you can’t move with any speed at all. Vasquez liked to move fast you know. 15 �Interviewer: How quickly did you get into contact with the enemy then, once you were out there? I didn’t really see anything until there was a stand down. Well this again—my memory is terrible because—have you interviewed Jim Campbell the other platoon leader? Interviewer: No, I would like to, but I haven’t seen him yet. Oh, you need to--I mean he was the old hand. I looked up to that guy. He had been in country forever and I had first platoon and he had second platoon and we did operate some together. 26:06 We had operated together and had split up to go our separate ways, because as you pointed out, the norm was to operate in platoon strength, which is really pretty cool. I mean, that being with the CP is kind of drab, you know. We walked into a mechanical ambush and I came to Ripcord last year and I talked to a guy and he said, “Yeah, I was in your platoon”, and I couldn’t remember him. He said, “Remember we walked into a mechanical ambush”, and I said, “I can’t remember”. You would think I could remember, but I couldn’t. I talked to Campbell later and he said, “Yeah, you guys walked into that mechanical ambush because we had to come back up the trail and get medivac”, and it’s gone from my memory, just gone. Interviewer: Can you explain what a mechanical ambush is? That would be probably a captured claymore [mine] or something set up as a booby trap, so you it trips up. 27:05 I mean in today’s world it would probably be an IED or something like that because that’s a vehicle borne ambush, but it’s an ambush without people there. Interviewer: What would differentiate from just calling it a booby trap? Is it size? 16 �I don’t know, I don’t know, the term mechanical ambush—I mean I hadn’t heard that term in years. I would have called it a booby trap. I mean, we even tried our own traps sometimes. As far as enemy contact, it was really next to nothing. I think we found a trail watcher one time and fired him up, but no major stuff. Between it and the stand down—did anybody talk about the stand down that happened in early June of 1970? It really, I’d only been in the field for two weeks, but that was important in the sense that I knew nobody else in 2/506. All the officers were back together and there were three or four days there where you actually got to see people from other companies and know who the other CO’s were. 28:08 There’s the famous officers photo of all of us lined up in front of the control tower and you know, that type of thing. I didn’t even know that picture existed until last year when I came. Interviewer: So, did you meet with the battalion commander at that point? I saw a lot of—Spade was there a lot of the time, I mean they would send in his helicopter and yeah, I saw a lot of him. Sometimes I think I saw more of him than I did my CO, eventually after Vazquez was replaced by Hewitt. Interviewer: You had the stand down, so does Vazquez leave at that point? No, he became S4 of the battalion, and Hewitt took over. Interviewer: That’s right, and how did Hewett’s command style compare to Vazquez’s? Oh, completely different, Vazquez was an old Special Forces guy and I mean, whoever wrote the book on him, they broke mold on Vazquez. 29:06 There was just no better company commander. I mean, this guy’s sly, cunning, he knew how to deal with things. Hewitt , he was—he looked like a kid. He was what? Twenty –four years old, ROTC 17 �grad from the University of Kansas, and he extended his tour a year. He had been down south, I don’t know, down by Saigon maybe, and the word was that he had been with the “Ruff Puffs”, which is regional forces/popular forces, and life wasn’t so bad down there. It was Vietcong contact, a totally war, he might as well be fighting in some other country, and he just didn’t have the experience. He slept in a hammock and that was crazy, you know, but he was a decent guy. Interviewer: So, then does he—he comes in while you’re on that stand down is that when he comes in and joins you? 30:00 Yes, he took over Interviewer: What happens after that? Well, eventually after the stand down we head back out to the field and start working. During the whole month of June we worked that area around Ripcord. Not much in the way of contact, just an occasional trail watch or something, but nothing really bad. I mean, there’s—I got some pictures—we fired up a trail watcher and somebody was telling me, “Remember that time we got that pay officer? And the guy must have been a pay guy because we got souvenirs—I got a piece of North Vietnamese money out of it, propaganda leaflets saying “GI Go Home”, and some pictures of everybody gathered around this dead body, but that was right, things were warming up, things were getting ready to hit because that was the end of June, 1970. Interviewer: Now, you’re in the area, were you the first unit sent into Ripcord or you’re at a place where your company gets hit pretty hard? 31:06 You’re talking about hill 902? Interviewer: Where does that fit into the sequence? 18 �July 2nd, 1970 Interviewer: Tell us what was going on at that point. Still working the AO—did anybody talk to you about an incident with Charlie Company right at the end of June? We were working a ridgeline and came to a stop. We looked over to an adjacent ridgeline and there was a gap in there where there was no foliation. We could see a North Vietnamese unit along that ridgeline. Too far for us to shoot at and we counted maybe over a hundred and fifty people. I think that was sobering because I think we realized there were more of them than there were of us. Companies were operating at a very depleted strength. Platoon strength was—I was supposed to have fifty men in a platoon and I had twenty-five. Interviewer: How strong was the company at that point, as far as you can tell? 32:01 Well, we had been good under Vazquez, I don’t know if we had slacked up any under Hewitt, I mean I was pretty new at this, so I knew Vazquez was good, but I couldn’t say that Hewitt was bad, you know. Interviewer: How about numbers? How large was the company at that point? Well, there’s three platoons and let’s say that each platoon is reduced in strength to twenty-five men, so you get seventy-five men in a platoon, if that and maybe five guys in a company CP. CO, FO, from the 2nd of the 319 [2nd Battalion, 319th Field Artillery, which had a battery on Ripcord], a couple of RTO’s because he had to secure set, so you got five people—and a medic, so you got five people in the CP. 19 �Interviewer: So, about eighty or so? So you’re out there and you’ve seen all these guys out there, North Vietnamese and realize there are a lot of them out there. 33:03 Yes, I mean everything’s after the fact, we’re up against something up a regiment, but we didn’t know that at the time. Interviewer: You didn’t know that at the time. Now, is it on the same patrol then that you get draw second or go back? It was all one continuous thing in and out of Ripcord because the company would either put a company, or part of a company on Ripcord for security, so we had been on Ripcord before Ripcord got bad. We were ordered on July 1st; we went up on hill 902 and spent the night there. It was a well-used place; there were foxholes there and all that. Apparently was quite a little hotel between us and the North Vietnamese, and I did not know that at the time, you know. It was just another denuded hill and you could see Ripcord in the background, so we were a couple of clicks away from Ripcord. We’re there on night, nothing special, and somebody ordered us to stay there a second night, and I’ve had discussions with Frank Bort, who rode over with me. 34:10 Under Vazquez we never stayed in the same place two nights in a row. In either under Vazquez or Hewitt, this time I’ve got pushing, maybe, two months in the field, ok, this is May, June, I’ve never stayed the same place two nights in a row and was told to stay here. Interviewer: In those previous two months you’re working, had you ever been probed to a task by enemy sappers or ground troops? No, the company had, but me personally, no. Just trail watchers, just little tiny stuff, you know. 20 �Interviewer: But, it was the kind of thing where you could set up your perimeter at night and they were not attacking you? Yeah, right Interviewer: So, what is going to happen then is going to be new? For me, maybe not for the old hands, but for me it was new. 35:03 Interviewer: So, basically you’re there a second night. What had happened it turns out is that’s when the big attack started on Ripcord, right there. Apparently there was something magical in July 1st I’m guessing. Ben Harrison can tell you better from the North Vietnamese. July 1st must have been the start of all the action because that’s when Ripcord—so, we’re on 902, down low we could hear mortar tubes going off and we know that they’re mortaring ripcord. So, somebody, it’s always they, you know S3, somebody on battalion staff. Okay, we’re ordered to stay there for the second night. Somebody gets this great idea that they’re going to drop in a pallet. They slung low a pallet of LAW’s in, which is a light anti- tank weapon. It’s a direct fire weapon and they say, “Ok, if you can hear the sound shoot at the sound with the LAWs”, so we’re sitting up there shooting at wherever we think the sound is. 36:07 And, of course that irritated them because then we started receiving incoming mortar rounds that are cs gas. I’ve got pictures here of 902. A picture of me on 902 and some of the guys on 902 and you can see the gas going off and you can see Ripcord in the back, so they know we’re there. What we did is we dug in—there were positions already there and so, we dug in the positions that were already there and strung up some wire that had tin cans and stuff. Because we figured this is inviting disaster by being here and so forth. Then shortly, at 4:00 in the morning that was the big attack on 902. 21 �Interviewer: Did you have as much security set up as your resources allowed you to have? 37:02 Yeah, but could we have done it better? Yeah, way better, I mean yeah, that’s a whole sore subject to me because I—because before going to this reunion in my own isolation because I did nothing until Jeff Wilcox and people encouraged me to do this. I fought that because I was one of the few officers up there and I was responsible, and there were a lot of people killed up there, so I have to take responsibility for a lot of that. So, that condemns one to fight and refight the battle in your head over and over again. What if I had done this? What if we had not dug into the same holes? Interviewer: So, basically from what you recall, what do you remember about what happened then that night the attack started? The attack started at 4:00 in the morning. 38:03 We heard movement, my platoon— there was two platoons in the company CP. The third platoon was back on Ripcord pulling security. They had just pulled them off that afternoon to go back to Ripcord security, so they watched the whole thing from ripcord. Got hit with a North Vietnamese Sapper Company, a good number of men, I don’t know, there could have been a hundred men in that attack, I don’t know, and they just—we were well dug in and I was dug into a foxhole this deep. It had wood in front, dirt, it had everything lined up, but the place just erupted in total explosion. Between satchel charges and RPG’s we just got raked over pretty good. If you did any shooting—shooting back wasn’t such a good thing because that showed your position and they just—they were right on top of us with satchel charges, so throwing grenades back at them was probably more effective. 39:05 So, Hewitt was killed apparently-- after the fact I realized immediately. What I 22 �thought—I was alert in my hole and on radio with battalion trying to get air in and artillery. Artillery was pre planned and all that and we had an FO from the 2nd of 319 and he was a 1st Lieutenant more senior than me. He had been in the field a while and I never heard Hewitt, but I heard the FO so, sometime into it I figured out that something happened to Hewitt and I debated, should I go to the CP or what? But, the FO seemed, from what I could hear, had things under control. This was only by radio traffic; I don’t know what’s going on because Hewitt’s CP, he was twenty-five meters behind mine. We were set up in a perimeter and I had a machine gun right in front of me. 40:03 I was back a little ways, 1st platoon facing one way, 2nd platoon on the back, CP, let’s say kind of at the crest of the hill. I knew things were are not good at the CP, I thought we were in danger of being overrun, but then at daybreak I thought, “Ok, we held”, and we didn’t get overrun because I don’t know if anybody came through my part of the line, but when I got back to the CP I found Hewitt dead and dead North Vietnamese all over the place, and I realized they had come through the 2nd platoon and just decimated them. Interviewer: Your own platoon, what kind of condition was it in? A bunch of people wounded, but I had one man killed. The machine gunner was killed and he was the only guy. He must have taken a RPG or something. Interviewer: Did you have a sense that maybe the enemy had figured out or knew what the foxholes were when they went in? Yeah, but this was all after the fact, but reading the book and all that—the book says we weren’t dug in, but that’s not true, we were dug in. 41:05 But then, tactically speaking, it was, it turns out, okay, 902, the hotel, everybody in the world had been there. Not only had we been there, but they had been there, so they knew where everything was, so—and 23 �this is part of replaying the battle, “Okay, we should have forgot those, moved further in and dug new holes”, and it just goes on infinitely, what could we have done better? Interviewer: Ultimately, in the morning the enemy’s gone. Were there enemy bodies there too? Oh, everywhere, all over the place, and unexploded satchel charges. I would bet—I don’t know how many were thrown, but there were a bunch of them laying there that had not exploded. One of them actually landed in my hole, in my foxhole, and me and my platoon sergeant, and we realized they had actually gotten it into the hole, and then it’s like those dreams where you’re trying to crawl out of something and you can’t move. 42:05 That’s exactly—it seemed like it took five or ten seconds to get out of the hole, and all the while I’m thinking, “This thing’s going to go off. Okay, it goes off, this thing's going to go off. I’m halfway out of the hole now and it’s going to blow my legs off or something like that”. So, then we actually get out of the hole and we wait and we wait. How long do you wait, waiting for it to go off? In the meanwhile the place is getting raked, because the hole, the foxhole saved our life, so we jump back in the hole, find it and throw it out, and go on. That’s what I mean the place was a dud and the place was littered with ones that didn’t go off, but there was a lot that did. Interviewer: The next morning comes and what do you do at that point? Well, we regroup, see what’s going on. There were choppers in from Ripcord immediately, and this is where my memory is terrible, horrible. I would have told you that Jeff Wilcox was on the 1st chopper and took over the company. 43:02 He did take over the company because Hewitt—I helped carry Hewitt’s body to the helicopter, what was left of him, and I saw Jeff last year and he said, “No, I was not, it was somebody 24 �else. I took over the company; the company regrouped and went back to Ripcord”. The wounded went to Evans, I went back to Ripcord and I thought Jeff had taken the company over at 902, but he didn’t. I was having severe hearing problems; I knew something was badly wrong with my ears. I was deaf at that point and couldn’t hear. Somebody said, “Go see the surgeon and see what’s going on here”, and I did, I went to see the surgeon and he looked at my ear and said, “Okay, you’re bleeding from your ear drum. Something’s happened and we’ll send you back to Charlie med and have you checked out”, so I left the company at that point, went back to Evans, went to the—there were a whole bunch of guys from 902 in there at that point. 44:02 They looked at my ears and the said, “Well, we’re going to send you, we’re going to send you back for further recovery to Cam Ranh Bay”, and that’s a sore spot for me now because it accomplished nothing. All it did was bring back some of my hearing. Hearing is pretty much toast; I have a history from my family of hearing problems, and I’ve learned in recent years that there’s a hereditary aspect. Once you damage it, it just multiplies, some people can withstand it and recover, but it’s been a horrible downhill slope with my hearing. Being in Cam Ranh Bay accomplished nothing, I missed the whole time that Jeff Wilcox was the commander of the company. They subsequently ended up on Hill 1000; I don’t know if you heard some stories of that? Interviewer: Yeah I feel horrible about not being there with them on Hill 1000 and I was out of it for about eight, nine days. 45:05 I was able to get back to them at Firebase O’Reilly, but I joke with Jeff saying, “You must have stepped on the helicopter I stepped off of”, because 25 �Lucas had relieved Jeff of the company, and then I heard all the stories about it, so I rejoined the company and then Lamb took over. Interviewer: All right, then basically what does the company do and what are you doing once you rejoin the company? Well, we spend some time at O’Reilly, and then went back into the bush. There was never anything—there was some firing here and there, but nothing on the magnitude of 902, nothing that some of the other companies ran into, and the last major engagement of Ripcord—there’s people who can tell you the dates, but there was an incident where, I think it was C [actually D] Company 1st of the 506 which was operating under the control of the 2nd Battalion of the 506. 46:09 The CO of that company was a guy named Workman, Captain Workman, and they ran I to some horrible—they just got decimated, and they were trying to get all those guys out, and they shot down a helicopter on the pad and there were a bunch of guys killed. Workman, the blade came through and cut Workman in half and those guys, they had been messed up pretty bad. We got order to go in—that LZ was finished because it was littered with helicopters and stuff, so they were going to pull them out and put us in. Now it turns out—I thought we were replacing them, but there was another company from the 501st, and I didn’t even realize that, but we went in, I didn’t know if it was a hot CA, everybody was shooting, door guns were going off, I don’t know if it was a hot one or not, but we got there and the whole world was on this LZ. 47:08 The guys-- Workman’s company were being pulled out on the ones that we went in on, and I don’t know the date, but this was one of the last things for Ripcord, and they just started pulling people out of there. They pulled out 1st, C Company of the 1st of the 506, and it turns out there were some 501 guys running around 26 �there, they pulled them out, and I thought we were under—my impression was we were to begin working the area. They’re going out, we’re there, and all I could think of is, “This is really a bad place to be”. We were on an adjacent hill and I was thinking it was a couple hundred meters away and Campbell said we were a thousand meters away. Those guys, you could tell they were pretty badly torn up. There wasn’t a whole bunch of us; we weren’t fully recovered from 902. 48:03 Interviewer: How many men are in your company at that point? I don’t know, we had to be down to about nobody at that point. So, they pulled all these guys out and there we were. We thought we should be walking off and starting patrols, at least that’s what I thought the deal was, and then Lamb came back and said, “No, it’s a fairy tail, it’s a fairy tale, we’re supposed to be fooling the enemy into thinking they’re going to pull us out too”, so we waited and waited—those guys—two companies are already gone, so we’re there and then they start pulling us out, but they could only get one ship at a time in and I’m thinking, “this is probably one of the worst AO’s ever because we’re going out six people at a time”, because all you can get is like six guys in a slick because they can’t carry any more than that. I was on the last bird out and this is where my memory totally broke down. I was on the last bird out, and I had asked if I could set a couple claymores. My idea was to blow some claymores as the bird came in. 49:09 I imagined they were just waiting out here just to finish us off, you know, that’s what I thought would probably happen, but they said, “No, no, don’t blow the claymores, you’ll get the birds all spooked, the helicopters, you know, so we didn’t blow any. I was among the last—we were on the—I was on the last bird out, just me and a couple guys. See, this is where my memory totally broke down. I thought it was still daylight and 27 �Campbell said, “No, no, it was dark when we pulled out”, you know—horrible memory, because I was thinking it was still daylight when we, getting dusk, but it was after dark. Then there was a big discussion, well we had strobe lights, they had left us a strobe light and all that, but it’s like not even remembering the mechanical ambush. I could not remember that sucker for my life, you know. Interviewer: How long then did you stay with the company after that? 50:04 Well, Ripcord ended Interviewer: July 23rd or something? Yeah, I was out there until mid-August, Lamb was the CO and he called me up and said, “Hey, you’re going back to the rear, you got a rear job”, and I was happy. At that point I didn’t know what was going on. Lamb could have been mad at me, or we had been getting—we had gotten some fresh Lieutenants. There was a West Point class that sent some in, that was right before Ripcord. Some officers started showing up and what happened to Jim Campbell, he went all those months in the field and there was no officers showing up. He was good so they left him in the field, you know, six months in the field, six months rear job, but some of those guys got left out. The poor enlisted guys, they were out there the whole twelve months, you know. So, I went back to brigade headquarters as liaison office. 51:04 And hadn’t been one of the best jobs ever for a rear job, because I was the representative to the division of the 3rd Brigade. My job, for the rest of my tour--and Jeff was back there, and he was Harrison’s briefer or something, but I worked out of the S-3 shop, the S-2 and the S-3, but mainly the S-3. Every morning I would jump in a Loach, and I would fly to every firebase both 101st and the 1st ARVN Division in Thua Thien-Hue Province, that’s the name of it, Thus Thien Province. In our 28 �area of operation, going all the way up towards the north, I would go in, I was the currier, I would take documents, I had a brief case, I carried tracing paper and I would trace the unit positions. 52:03 In the TOC you got a big topographical map and there would be all the unit location. I would take tracing paper, trace all the units, put it in my brief case, get back to brigade around noon, go down into brigade talk, post all the 2/506 and whoever else was there, plus the ARVN’s, brigade talk, map, and then towards the end of the afternoon I would go down to the division to Camp Eagle and attend the dog and pony show down there with the commanding General briefing. Where you had a G-2 and a G-3 briefer in spit shined boots and starched fatigues briefing the commanding General and all the brass of the 101st. If there was ever a question to be asked about the 3rd Brigade I had to be able to answer the questions, but I also ended up posting to the division talk all these 3rd Brigade locations. Then each brigade, each of the three brigades had their own liaison officer, and then go back to Evans in the evening. 53:04 That was the rest of my tour, and that’s where Lam Son 719 came in Because it got interesting, because I flew to all these different places, and since the 101st was kind of running Lam Son 719, even though it was an ARVN show, that took me up to Quang Tri, I mean I even saw the Rock Pile and even saw Khe Sanh off in the distance one time. Interviewer: Explain a little bit what was going on Lam Son 719. That was an incursion into Laos in the spring of 1970. The 1st ARVN Division sent troops into Laos. Interviewer: The spring of 1971. 1971, yes, 71, 71, April or something like that, General Sidney Berry, I believe, he was the assistant division commander. But he ran—he was the assistant division commander, 29 �but he was detached and there was a forward headquarters at Quang Tri of the 101st. 54:05 The 1st ARVN Division actually sent their assets into Laos, there was air support from the 101st , Cobras and all that kind of stuff, no 101st units went into Laos, but Khe Sanh was opened back up again and then, additionally, they brought the 1st of the 1st Cav [an armored cavalry battalion, not to be confused with the 1st Cavalry Division] from the Americal Division from south, from Chu Lai, they put them on LST’s brought them up to—there was a ramp at Tam Ky, which there was an inlet there not far from Hue and all that. This was a mechanized unit, so they had ACAVs, they had M-113’s, Sheridan tanks and all that and then they sent them up to Highway 9 and they ran from Highway one to Highway 9, which runs past the Rock Pile, Khe Sanh, all the way over to and goes on into Laos. 55:07 Then you have the 5th Mech, was up on the DMZ. Now were talking like next door right at the DMZ. The 5th Mech has already been there and that’s a brigade of the 5th Infantry Division, which is a mechanized unit. They had 113’s and they had M-48 tanks. Interviewer: So, basically you’re having to kind of—were you keeping track of various parts of that? Well, it’s the same mission except I got more places to go. I mentioned going to ARVN and 101st firebases, but now you’ve got another TOC up at Quang Tri, which was a forward operating TOC of the 101st, I ended up at Camp Carroll and there were some other locations where it became necessary for me to go in. It’s basically doing the same thing. 56:03 Taking documents back and forth, map overlays, noting troop locations and what we would do by e-mail today. I was thinking about that—the 2nd of the 506 in Afghanistan, and what I was carrying papers around and doing—when they were in 30 �Afghanistan, they were e-mailing each. I mean, I saw some correspondence I wasn’t supposed be where somebody turned up missing in the 2/506 and there was a S-1 chewing somebody out by e-mail asking, “Where is this man, he’s in a combat zone”, and that’s today, you know. Interviewer: What impression did you have of the ARVN forces that you were working with? The 1st ARVN Division was pretty good. They were really good, they could move and I didn’t see that they were bad soldiers. They did do a legionary Hoc Bau, which is organic, which would be like a Ranger company that belonged to the 1st. They operated on their own, and they were a bunch of wild men. 57:02 I remember a division briefing at—General Berry loved the Hoc Bau, that was like his own personal Ranger company, and they got involved in a shoot-out with the national police in Hue, and the next thing you know, they’re showing up over on the Laos ion border somewhere. They got sent out there because they were bad boys in Hue, but they were good. Interviewer: Did you have much contact with the Vietnamese, either military or civilian, aside from the ones that you saw? The rumor was, the whole country was off limits to the 101st. I never really saw much in the way of civilians except when we went to Eagle Beach and we drove through some countryside. I got to see Hue one time because I had to go by Jeep from Eagle back to Evans. One time Hewitt sent me on a mission. He sent me back and said, “Look, we got a prisoner down in Da Nang”. 58:01 The Marines ran the jail in Da Nang and I had to go and take some papers to some guy we had in the hoosegow in Da Nang. So, he sent me back, I picked up a driver, maybe it was Lamb, I forget who it was, I picked up a 31 �driver back at Evans, strapped on a 45, and we drove down Highway 1, over the Hai Van Pass and down to Da Nang to go see this guy and serve papers on him and go back. But, I was amazed at the beauty of the beaches and stuff because Highway 1 followed right along the coastline, but that’s the only time I got to see anything. Interviewer: Now, when you were out and about the bases and so forth, in the second half of your tour, were there Vietnamese and things working there? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you’re right—the barber, there was an officer’s club and an NCO club, and the bar maid might be Vietnamese, but that was about the extent of the Vietnamese. I mean, really, I had, unfortunately, no contact with any. 59:06 Interviewer: Now, when you were out in the field, how would you characterize the morale or the attitude of the soldiers you were serving with? It could be discouraging at times. Nobody wanted to be the last man dead, killed. We knew the war was winding down and it’s kind of like the whole idea was to stay alive. I wish I could tell you that we were a bunch of warriors that just lived for the moment, you know, but a lot of them were draftees, you know. Even my attitude, I started seeing the futility of it and I—looking back on it I have a totally different—I would go about it differently, but at the time I had this sense of futility, almost like what’s the point now after so many people have been killed. I walked off Ripcord and nothing left and it was hard to see what we were trying to accomplish. 00:06 Interviewer: How well do you think the soldiers performed individually, at least the ones you were working with, were they doing their job? Yes they were, they were—there was the usual trying to keep a guy from falling asleep on guard duty. That happens to this day, even in Afghanistan. There’s that when you 32 �pull your watch, skill, some were better than others, but these were pretty good troops for a lot—well, they were all draftees you know. Interviewer: You were with them at a certain point when they got cut up pretty badly, when that happens to a unit that can affect them for a while, and you weren’t with them too long after that. When you first joined the unit, with Vazquez, was there a different quality to than it had later? I’m, not sure, I’m not sure; I don’t think my memory is good enough to say, “Yeah, we were beter then than we were then”. 1:06 Interviewer: Now when you were out in the field, one of the stereotypes is that everybody is doing drugs and that kind of thing. I never saw it Interviewer: You never saw it At Evans maybe, but not in the field Interviewer: This tape is about up here. 33 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LeibeckeB1275V Title A name given to the resource Leibecke, Robert (Interview transcript and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Leibecke, Robert Description An account of the resource Bob Leibecke was born into a military family and attended VMI, graduating in 1969. Commissioned in the Army, he attended Infantry Basic School at Ft. Benning, went to Jump School, put in a few months with a transportation unit at the Hunter Liggett Military Reservation for some leadership experience, and then went to Ranger School, and then to Jungle Training in Panama before going to Vietnam. In May, 1970, he was given command of the 1st Platoon in C Company, 2/506, in the 101st Airborne Division. His company participated in the campaign around Firebase Ripcord. They suffered badly in an attack on their position on Hill 902 on July 2, and later helped to rescue another company, D/1/506, on July 23. In August, he was reassigned to be his brigade's liaison officer to the division headquarters, and also served as a liaison with the ARVN 1st Division during their invasion of Laos in early 1971. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-10-07 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6bb3e68de6f2e8b9ec2854638fb74fd4.mp4 743c481fb57a9b878be9b541ec82776e https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/05ddb4d0de373cfe0ade4377f4b1c6e0.pdf ead74ecd56460825af1b14a01e1b7555 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Harold LeFurge (48:25:27) Childhood • (00:32:06)born in Lansing, MI, lived in Lansing until the age of twelve; the family then moved to Grand Ledge, about ten miles west of Lansing, where he went to high school; graduated form high school in 1944 • (01:17:22)he was fourteen years old at the time of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and he wondered "where's Pearl Harbor"? • (01:32:26)Lefurge's mother thought the war would be over before any of her sons would not have "to go" [into the military] but he and one of his three brothers did In The Navy • (02:04:00)he joined the navy "right out of high school"; you could either volunteer for one of the branches of the military at that time or you would be drafted; LeFurge chose the navy because he thought he would never have to dig a fox hole in the navy; also, "the food was better" [in the navy] • (02:48:28)he went to "Great Lakes" [the Naval Training Station in Great Lakes, IL] near Chicago for basic training; basic training was increased to ten weeks in July of '44, from five weeks; after the ten weeks, he went on leave for two weeks o there were "hundreds" at Great Lakes, but perhaps fifty to one hundred in the barracks building with him o their instructor was a chief petty officer; training amounted to lots of marching and basic seamanship, but not much with rifles • (05:20:13)how he got to Great Lakes: he traveled on a troop train many from his home town: "probably most of my graduating class, a lot of them, went in the navy," and he "saw some of 'em later on on ships out there the Pacific" • (06:22:14)he left Great Lakes in October of '44 and went to Philadelphia for assignment o he was sent to Fort Pierce in Florida for "small boat," amphibious training, where he learned how to operate landing craft; o from Fort Pierce, he went to Norfolk, VA for more training—Little Creek, near Norfolk • (08:01:15)LeFurge ended up a third class petty officer in the navy: communications, a signalman • (08:43:14)in Philadelphia, he was assigned to a newly-built ship, built in Evansville, IN • they picked up the LST in Evansville, "took it down the Ohio [River] to the Mississippi [River] and to Gulfport on the Mississippi • (09:43:10)the LST was a three-hundred-sixty-foot landing craft for transporting tanks, big guns, and troops, and it had bow doors that opened, of course; he was on LST 1103, with a crew of two-hundred and fifty; "maybe a third of the crew was experienced" �• • (11:54:04)it was crowded on the ship: he slept and ate in a compartment with about fifty other room, they slept in bunks stacked three high, and there was a big closet to put things in (13:01:24)as a signalman, LeFurge's duties included communication on light: search light, morse code was on the light, ship to ship, and ship to shore communication; there was also flag hoisting, and he had to know what [flag] combination designated a particular signal; he had to memorize things from signal books and code books; after about six months he passed the tests to become a petty officer Headed For The Pacific • (14:38:04)at Gulfport, MS they picked up an LCT, a smaller landing craft, then sailed through the Panama Canal into the Pacific, and on to Hawaii and Pearl Harbor • (15:45:17)the Panama Canal: "you just go through singly," it is not wide, one could reach “over here and touch the side of it”; it took his ship three to four hours to get through the canal • (17:32:02)Pearl Harbor: he did not see many effects of the bombing, "they had it pretty well cleaned up" by that time; the Arizona and Utah were there "sticking up" from the water • (19:28:00)his ship resupplied at Pearl Harbor, to take things to the islands; though the main battles were over, there was still "some fighting" however, and they took on replacement troops From Pearl Harbor To Okinawa • (20:28:10)they visited the Marshall Islands, the Carolines, then went north to Saipan, Okinawa, Iwo Jima; they got there after the main battles, and did not go ashore • (22:01:28)some Japanese generals had administration and families on Iwo Jima; told that the conquering Americans would torture and kill them, they committed suicide by jumping over a "big cliff"; "suicide was big to those people" • (23:47:03)he made a number of trips between Pearl Harbor and the islands; his ship got to Okinawa in the middle of 1945 • (24:26:27)"any ship out there was there for the invasion of Japan"; "I know that my ship would have been one of the first ones in the invasion of Japan, and those Japanese people, they wouldn't give up." • (25:25:14)"Mr. Truman was my friend." [for having the atomic bombs dropped] • (25:31:12)they celebrated the Japanese surrender by "going ashore on this island" [near Okinawa]; they were not allowed to drink on the ship, but they were given "4% beer"; they played softball and drank beer His Experiences With The Japanese • (26:27:16)they picked up Japanese military families from some of the islands and got them out of there “so they wouldn't start another fight"; they loaded them onto �• • • • • • • • the ship and transported them back to Japan—this operation took two or three weeks" the Japanese rode on the tank deck [of the ship], where they laid down their mats the Japanese fed themselves: "we had this big kettle," and "they made their own rice, boiled their own rice and fish” the Americans built restrooms for their Japanese guests, for women on the port side of the deck, and for men on the other side of the deck; but the Japanese "didn't care, one used the other" (28:11:15)"I talked with some, on the main deck, where the kettle was" [LeFurge says of the Japanese on the ship] he would ask them, "What's your problem, what's your problem?" the Japanese did not like to talk about it however—"I suppose they feel guilty" [LeFurge] (28:41:25)LeFurge's explanation for Japanese militarism: Japan is small, overpopulated, "one reason why they were so militaristic, "and they wanted more land for their people (29:07:17)he met a young German women after the war, when he was back home and tried to have a conversation with her, asking "why did you people do that", but she "wouldn't talk about it"; they "claimed they didn't know" about it (30:17:21)he does not have "anything against individual Japanese" but feels that they haven't changed much [by the time of the interview] though they are "not as bad"; he does not want "anything to do with 'em" [the Japanese] as a group; and this is "the feeling," according to LeFurge, of "not just the military [American] at that time" but of civilians too: "they don't like those people" [the Japanese] (31:00:26)the attack on Pearl Harbor was a "sneak attack" and "they're cowards" Between The Wars • (31:45:28)he got out of the navy in the spring of 1946 • he would not "want to do it again" but he is glad he had a chance to do it • (32:26:10)he and his wife were in Hawaii "a few years ago," and they wanted to fly to Peleliu, in the Palau or Belau group of islands [the far-western Caroline Islands]—he had not been able to get off the ship there while in the navy—but to fly there in the present time would be "just like buying a house and a car" so he “forgot about it” • (34:11:13)LeFurge was discharged from the navy in April of 1946 o one had to have "so many points to get out": one got points for years in the military, years overseas; he waited from October of '45 until May of '46 to get out • (34:57:01)his ship returned to the US, to Charleston, South Carolina, in March of 1946; the ship was then decommissioned • (35:20:15)after WWII LSTs were used for oil storage "down on the gulf"; the Logan, which he was on during the Korean War, was scrapped • (35:53:14)he was in the Korean War for a year and a half • (35:59:02)after WWII, LeFurge went into "active reserve" [navy] with a chance of recall • (36:21:22)after leaving the navy, LeFurge "came home": his parents lived in �• Lansing (MI) (36:29:07)he got a job, and he worked for Greyhound [the bus line] for forty years; he worked in the accounting and ticket offices Korean War • (37:18:26)from Philadelphia, he was sent to San Francisco, where he was assigned to an "APA," auxiliary personnel attack • (37:55:03)the Logan [LeFurge's ship] was an amphibious transport vessel: it carried twenty-six boats for ferrying men ashore and back • (38:33:14)he arrived in Korean "close to the end of the war," in the spring of 1953, and too late for the main amphibious landings; they took relief troops to Korea, from Pearl Harbor and other islands, both army soldiers and marines • (39:52:05)living conditions on the Logan were the same as on the LST in WWII: "we always ate good" � the bad part about it: the Japanese would attack ships early in the morning before people got up, so they had GQ, "general quarters," at 4 a.m. � his general quarters station was up on the signal bridge � ***Mr. LeFurge may have been referring to incidents in WWII, in the comments immediately above, not the Korean War, but they have been recorded in the order spoken.*** Family Life • (40:50:21)he and his wife Lorraine have been married for fifty and a half years (at the time of the interview) • (41:00:11)he met her five or six years after the Korean War; he was introduced to Lorraine by a co-worker and his wife in the Greyhound bus station where he was working ***Mr. LeFurge probably met Lorraine after WWII, not after the Korean War, since his marriage took place about a year after he returned to the US from Korea, or so he says.*** • (42:17:27)LeFurge has six children, and none of them "were on anything" or even smoked cigarettes: he kept them from smoking cigarettes by offering to give each of them fifty dollars if they did not smoke until reaching the age of twenty-one � one is in Florida, one is in Annapolis, MD, and one is in San Francisco � the other three live in the area [in Michigan]: one is a teacher, one has a master's degree in business, and the other is a homemaker � his oldest daughter and her husband have lived in Saudi Arabia and Thailand • (44:13:26)he has six grandchildren and one great-granddaughter who will be two years old in December [in relation to the time of the interview] How He Came To Grand Rapids From Lansing �• • (45:12:21)he had worked for Greyhound for thirty years, when "they decided they were gonna do this and do that and they weren't makin' enough money and all that junk that goes on to this day"; Greyhound was going to downsize and they offered him a choice of either Flint or Grand Rapids, and he chose Grand Rapids (45:57:25)he spent a couple of months living in the YMCA while looking for a house in Grand Rapids; he met with a realtor every night and finally found the house in Wyoming, where he has now lived for twenty-eight years [at the time of the interview] On His Life and War Experiences • (46:51:23)he believes he has been fortunate in life and to have been married to a "nice woman" for fifty years and hasn't "regretted a day of it"; he raised six kids who "didn't get into trouble or anything" • (47:46:26)LeFurge, in response to the interviewer's expressed hope that students in the future, watching the video, will learn about what life was like during WWII and afterward and lean more about history: "learn how to get along with these wars we have now" • (48:25:27)he was about to be drafted, so he joined the navy: "you had to do somethin'" � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LeFurgeH Title A name given to the resource LeFurge, Harold W. (Interview outline and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource LeFurge, Harold W. Description An account of the resource Harold LeFurge served in the US Navy in both WWII and the Korean War. On an LST ship during WWII, he sailed to the Marshall Islands, the Carolinas', the Northern Mariana Islands, and to Okinawa. The main battles were over by the time LeFurge got there, but his ship carried supplies to the islands, and transported Japanese military families living on the islands back to Japan. Late in the Korean War, his ship transported American relief troops, army and marines, to Korea from Pearl Harbor and other Pacific islands Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Vanderlinde, Dean M. (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-10-21 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1043f52070ed37ac8bac18cd220118f4.mp4 6e7059bca0d8d74002d523126a1cf6b1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/893fcf1209c0b025f564d14424a27a0c.pdf 0365c1249217452a61707b2dbb1bb731 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Lyn Lee (00:48:22) (00:15) Background Information • • • • • • • Lyn was born in Detroit, Michigan on September 7, 1953 His mother worked as a server and also did some embroidery work His father Harry was a mason and worked at Great Lakes Steel for 38 years Lyn went to Myra Jones Elementary School He liked to swim and play basketball They took their senior trip to the Bahamas Throughout high school, Lyn worked part time at an Italian café (11:00) Graduation • • • • Lyn quit the café right after he graduated He lived with his parents for a while and they were very strict He was still only 17 and could not yet get a job in a factory Many of his friends were working in factories or left to go to college at Michigan State University (12:40) Enlistment in the Navy • • • • • • • • • • Lyn joined the Navy with the “Buddy System,” so that he and his friend would only have to enlist for 3 years instead of 4 When he joined the Navy, the Viet Nam War was still in process He had boot camp in Orlando, Florida for 13 weeks The experience was very shocking and scary and he barely got any sleep while he was there They found out that his “buddy” could not swim and they were separated because his friend had to take many extra swimming classes to catch up with the others They got up every day at 5 am and had inspection at 6 am; then they ate breakfast and attended their classes They learned about the rules and regulations of the Navy Lyn had training in weapons and combat, running, hiking The men spent most of the time in classes They learned how to make a floating device out of every part of their uniform (21:40) The USS Super Tanker A0106 • • The ship hauled fuel and oil for service craft The seas were very rough and they spent about 20 days out at sea per trip and many people got sick �• • • • • • It took them 26 days to get to their base in Viet Nam On their way there they had to constantly refuel other ships They had first stopped in Hawaii to reload fuel They ship could hold 60 million gallons of fuel He traveled on the ship with about 350 men, followed by two escorts Their base was located in the South China Sea while working on Operation Clean Sweep (31:05) Time Spent on Leave • • • • • • Lyn traveled to Singapore and Hong Kong and everyone there treated the Americans with respect They stayed near their base for 9 months until the war was nearly over Lyn went back to the US in December of 1974 for one month before he was called back to the base near Viet Nam His highest rank in the Navy was E-3, but he was brought back down to E-2 for being AWOL He had been hung over and missed his ship to leave His punishment was 14 days restriction on the ship in the brig and the demotion (39:00) Life After the Service • • • • • • Lyn went back to Detroit and attended college for 6 months He then went to work at a Chrysler factor for three and a half years The economy was not that great and he was eventually laid off Lyn left for California and found a job working for the National Ship Building Company, working on super tankers for about 4 years He then went to Seattle to look for a new job, but could not find anything Lyn went back to California to work for 6 more years and then moved back to Michigan (43:45) Back in Detroit • • • • Lyn started working in construction as a stone mason He then started working for an excavating company, but eventually hurt his back so bad that he could no longer work He now lives in a veterans home in Grand Rapids Lyn believes that time spent in the service in good in providing discipline and helping young people to mature � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LeeL Title A name given to the resource Lee, Lyn (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lee, Lyn Description An account of the resource Lyn Lee served in the US Navy from 1972 to 1974. He was a crewman on the USS Navasota (A0-106), a large tanker. His ship served in the South China Sea, and supported ships cruising off the coast of Vietnam in the later stages of the war there. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans African-American soldiers United States. Navy Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-01-07 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dbce5627b97bdeea527a23b61c800314.mp4 ee62f951c781c14f9cbafcbd013385b5 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c43e30bef5d9158220c8eaa9fdaedcb0.pdf 6d023a5aab1703047d534627c26d6727 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Earl Lee (00:44:41) (00:15) Background Information • • • • • Earl was born in New York, near Canada in 1925, so he grew up during the depression His dad was a mill-worker and they were very poor Earl was the oldest of four children It was hard for him to find work after graduating from high school He got a job working on train tracks for a while, but did not like it and decided to join the Navy (1:45) The Navy • • • • • Earl enlisted in July of 1943 and felt that the war was affecting every town in the United States at that point Roosevelt was able to get everyone to be patriotic; not like the public is today He liked the water and did not enjoy marching so he chose the Navy The enlisted men were taken from Albany to Samson, New York for training They only trained for six weeks because they were all in such a hurry (4:00) Training • • • • • Earl trained at Radar School, where they had German prisoners maintaining the grounds It was at a hotel with really good food They learned to operate recovery radar and surface radar They were then sent to Florida in a Navy base in the middle of a ship building area They ship was finished being built in the spring of 1944 (7:00) The Trip Overseas • • • • • • • Many people were sick while they traveled with a convoy to London They also did some training on the East coast Earl sometimes worked as a watchman on the ship at night Once some drunk men tried to take his gun away, and he accidently shot the ship next to them Altogether Earl made three trips across the north Atlantic and they were all very rough He sometimes thought the ship would fall apart during bad storms He traveled to London, Belfast, Glasgow �• They only spent about two weeks on shore every time they landed (15:25) Steering Problems • • • • • The ship was having problems and it had to go ahead of the convoy They were almost hit by a sub, but they finally made it to Belfast They sometimes mistook whales for subs Some whales slammed against the side of the ship; it was very scary and they thought that they were being attacked About five ships would travel together at once with destroyer escorts (21:00) On Shore • • • The men could alternate with others and leave for a couple of hours at a time Many of them just got drunk or went sight seeing The local girls went crazy when they saw them; there were lots of beautiful girls in Belfast (23:00) B-12 School • • • • • Earl was selected as 1 of 1,000 men on the ship to go to B-12 School Many others who attended the school had not even been out to sea They were treated badly by the townspeople because they were in school while their family members were out at war Earl purposely got himself kicked out of the program He was sent to Texas and then to Cuba (25:00) Cuba • • • • • • • • They fueled up in Cuba and went through the canal Earl did some training on the ship with First Class Chiefs They trained extensively and then headed for Japan to open up the beaches for the invasion Earl stated “and then President Truman, God bless him, dropped the atomic bombs.” They were in the middle of the ocean when the bombs were dropped They had to go ashore to make sure the Japanese public knew that the war was over The Japanese citizens were very friendly There were tons of ships in the Sea of Japan (29:00) The Philippines • Earl was ready to go home when he had arrived here, but he was asked to go to China and he declined �• He was discharged in the middle of January in 1946 (30:00) His Career after the Service • • • Earl worked in a Post Office, and then got married He worked on a farm in New York, and then a restaurant, and even an ice cream factory He eventually ended up in management for IBM for 30 years (34:00) The Japanese Shore • • • There were really flimsy and cheap houses and a very dirty environment They had expected the Japanese to be more belligerent Earl fought more elements in the North Atlantic than he ever did people (36:35) His Life after the Navy • • • • The service affected him dramatically and enlightened him in so many ways He learned himself how to compete His mom was right for not letting him drop out of high school when they were very poor He really liked the Navy, but there was great class distinction (40:40) San Diego • • He was called to go meet an officer regarding church services; the officer wanted him to help set them up Earl told him he could not do that because all the other men would make fun of him; the officer did not like his answer � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LeeE Title A name given to the resource Lee, Earl (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lee, Earl Description An account of the resource Earl Lee joined the Navy in 1943 and trained for only six weeks before shipping out to London. Earl made three trips across the Atlantic while he was in the service, also traveling to Cuba, Panama, the Philippines, and Japan. He said that he had more problems aboard the ship then he did fighting the enemies. He had been surprised when they went ashore in Japan becuase he had thought the people there would be more hostile towards Americans. Earl said that overall he had a very positive experience in the Navy and it dramatically affected his life in a positive way. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Veterans Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-06-28 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/89f4f972b9dc7ebbb4908ec910533769.mp4 b367d8a0e025459b416cd91a9a60d6c9 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/436c83d7394ede2c2cc37235195ebe35.pdf 0b2ae5a04d1faaf8a37571c90fe27268 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Vietnam War Paul Lecours Interview Length: 1:08 Pre-enlistment / Early Service Period (00:00:23:00)  Born in Lebanon, New Hampshire in 1946 (00:00:23:00)  His father worked as a salesperson in a furniture store and his mother was a stay-at-home mom for Lecours and his sister (00:00:35:00)  In his sophomore year of college, Lecours contracted mono and had to leave school; once he finally became non-contagious, Lecours realized that he would either have to join four out of six classes mid-term or join the military, so he joined the military (00:00:53:00) o His father had served in the Air Force, so Lecours decided to join the Air Force (00:01:21:00) o He had been attending St. Anselm College, a liberal arts school on the east coast and he picked up more courses while he was in the service (00:01:26:00)  Lecours was in college during the 60’s, so if he could “walk, talk, and chew gum at the same time, he was going to get drafted” (00:01:44:00) o He had no desire to join the Army; the Air Force appealed to Lecours the most, just because he needed to slow down (00:01:50:00) o Lecours’ major in college was to be psychology, so he wanted to work with people; however, when he enlisted, Lecours took a math test, finished well before the time was up, and scored so well on the test that he began work with accounting and finance working in military pay (00:02:09:00)  Lecours originally went to Lackland Air Force Base for basic training (00:02:57:00) o The heavyset men ran a lot while the other men did a lot of drilling, including the obstacle course and calisthenics (00:03:13:00) o Because it was the Air Force, basic training lasted for six weeks and Lecours then transferred to Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan for an additional two weeks of training (00:03:27:00) o Lecours was in great shape at the time; on the first day there, they went on a twomile run and Lecours beat the trainer (00:03:41:00)  As punishment, Lecours was put in charge of calisthenics, something he had to do anyway (00:03:54:00) o The instructors placed a large emphasis on military discipline; Lecours recalls anticipating a right turn, the instructor said left, and Lecours ran into another soldier (00:04:08:00)  The soldier walked up and punched Lecours in the nose (00:04:20:00)  Discipline was vital; they could not have men questioning orders, so the instructors broke the men down and built them back up (00:04:38:00)  The transition to military discipline felt logical for Lecours (00:04:55:00)  From Lackland, Lecours was stationed in Sault Ste. Marie at Kincheloe Air Force Base, a SAC (Strategic Air Command) base with B-52 bombers (00:05:09:00) � o The base was supposedly meant to protect the Soo Locks, but it was also the closest base for a direct strike into Russia (00:05:24:00) o While at Kincheloe, Lecours lucked out and worked in the command center receiving NORAD alerts, which was fascinating; whenever there was an alert, all personnel on the base were activated (00:05:36:00)  Lecours’ specific job was plotting radioactivity, which was a dumb job; if someone dropped a bomb, he had to plot how long radioactivity could go from the east coast to the west coast, etc. (00:06:05:00) o Lecours was at Kincheloe from June 1966 until December 1967; from there, he went home on leave and then to Vietnam (00:06:44:00) o All the alerts they did at Kincheloe was just practice, at least to Lecours’ knowledge; they merely told him to do something and he did it (00:07:33:00) o Lecours’ hometown in New Hampshire would be the coldest place in the United States three or four times a year, so going to school in below zero weather was no big deal; however, he had no concept of wind-chill because the town was in a valley, so when they handed out parkas at Kincheloe, Lecours thought it was a joke (00:07:46:00)  During the first storm, he did not make it was far as the next barracks before he went back and got his parka (00:08:07:00)  There was an alert one time and it was so foggy, that they had to have a man sitting on the bumper of the car (00:08:17:00) o The people at and around the base were awesome; most of the people on base were like Lecours, only there for a short period of time (00:08:33:00) o SAC eventually closed the base down and Lecours was in charge of the records transfer to Sawyer Air Force Base (00:09:14:00)  Not long after the base closed, many shops closed as well because the owners were dependent of soldiers spending money in them (00:09:27:00) Just after completing the records transfer to Sawyer, Lecours received his papers for Vietnam in the end of 1967 (00:09:49:00) Deployment to Vietnam (00:10:07:00)  To get to Vietnam, Lecours took a flight out of Washington; the flight was set to leave early in the morning and there was nothing to do except walk around in the slight drizzle of rain because all the shops were closed (00:10:07:00) o On the flight to Vietnam, Lecours flew on a commercial airliner chartered by the military (00:10:38:00) o During Lecours’ first trip to Vietnam, the plane first flew to Wake Island and then into Cam Ranh Bay; on his second trip to Vietnam, the plane for Seattle to Hawaii and then into Cam Ranh Bay (00:11:02:00)  His first impression of Vietnam was the heat (00:11:26:00) o It was just like basic training; in New Hampshire, the summers only got up to seventy degrees and when they opened the door in San Antonio, Lecours thought it was a blast furnace (00:11:29:00) o The soldiers went over thinking it was a one-way trip and when they opened the door, it did not look very active (00:12:10:00) �    Once the men were off the plane, the Air Force put them in a room and briefed them about their tour (00:12:17:00) o Lecours was assigned to the military pay section and ended up working with the OSI, which made the tour interesting (00:12:25:00) o When he first got to Vietnam, the Air Force issued Lecours an M16, but he had to store it and then he met the people he was going to be working with (00:13:13:00) Lecours worked out of a semi-permanent building and in Lecours’ section, at the back of the building, there were three or four men (00:13:52:00) o The men handled the pay records, answered pay inquires, processing the records of incoming soldiers, etc. (00:14:47:00) o Lecours was restricted to the base for eight months before he received his first assignment off-base, a money run in which the Air Force strapped a sidearm on him and told him that he was security; the MPC (Military Pay Scrip) changed constantly, although it was classified when and the men were never exactly sure when it would change (00:15:13:00)  He flew into Saigon, picked up two and a half million dollars in the new scrip, and returned to base; he and his men then worked until all the money was replaced (00:15:40:00)  Instead of using American money, the military issued soldiers MPC, which they used as long as they were in country; the Vietnamese had their own money but they loved to get a hold of MPC because it was worth more (00:16:11:00)  During the changes, the military changed from one color MPC to another overnight in an effort to stop counterfeiting (00:16:50:00)  People, especially Vietnamese, tried to play the market and get as much out of the MPCs as possible because the MPCs were worth more (00:17:12:00) While on the base, the men had a mama-san, a Vietnamese woman who cleaned out their hooch (00:17:46:00) o The men also had contact with different civilians who worked on the base; one Vietnamese woman working in the health facilities ended up inviting Lecours to her home (00:18:03:00) Cam Ranh Bay was a very secure base; it had never been hit in an attack but Lecours jokingly said that when he was going down the flight line was the first time that the base was going to be hit (00:18:30:00) o Just before the beginning of the Tet offensive, the enemy finally ended up attacking the base (00:18:44:00) o The base had the busiest hospital at the height of the war in the Air Force’s section and there were also sections for the Army and Navy, both of whom helped in bringing in supplies (00:18:48:00) o The bay was one of the deepest natural harbors in the world (00:19:07:00) o The base was beautiful, i.e. their beaches were nicer than Waikiki in Hawaii; men would meet their wives in Hawaii and come back and say the beaches at Cam Ranh Bay were nicer (00:19:14:00) �    At a certain point, Lecours began working with the OSI (Office of Special Investigation) while investigating a doctor working out of the hospital (00:19:39:00) o The investigation was interesting, but it was not something Lecours intentionally planned on; he had just walked into it (00:19:54:00) o Lecours’ whole goal in the military was to get to Germany; he volunteered for: Germany and Guam, Germany and Vietnam, etc. (00:20:00:00)  Once he was out of the military, the trial took place in Bitburg, Germany and the government flew Lecours to Germany to testify about the Vietnam portion of the investigation (00:20:10:00) o During the investigation, there was a corrupt doctor and they had to get proof that he was corrupt, which was where Lecours came in (00:20:59:00)  Lecours went to the hospital and made contact with another doctor, a neurosurgeon, who was the antithesis of the corrupt doctor (00:21:13:00)  He ended up going to the hospital on several occasions (00:21:34:00) o The OSI wanted Lecours to help in another investigation but during the investigation at the hospital, Lecours ended up sleeping through rocket attacks, so he decided to give the investigation to another kid, who turned out to do the job really well (00:22:15:00)  Lecours later checked on the investigation while in Washington and after thirty days, the kid had already helped arrest one person from the corrupt finance operation (00:22:36:00) During the Tet offensive, security on the base tightened (00:23:12:00) o One of the men on the base was short, meaning he had less than thirty days until he went home, and they were watching a movie one time when they heard whooshing sounds and explosions; eight rounds had come onto the base and hit three fuel bladders near the flight line (00:23:18:00)  From where the men were watching the movie to the flight line was about a mile and Lecours said he thought they were under attack, to which the short timer replied that they were not going to get hit (00:23:53:00)  Lecours told him to check it out and when he turned around and saw the flames, he asked what they should do; Lecours suggested waiting for the siren to go off (00:24:13:00)  Sure enough, the movie went off and the siren went on, so the men went back to their hooch, turned their lights off, pulled on their flak jackets, and opened a beer (00:24:21:00) o There were bunkers around the base for the protection but as far as protection inside the base, the men could only put on their flak jackets and helmets and get under their bunks, which would not have mattered anyway if a direct hit occurred on the hooch (00:24:46:00) o There was not much point in targeting the housing area; rockets might have come in once while Lecours was at the base (00:25:23:00) From Cam Ranh Bay, Lecours received R&R to Australia and before beginning his second tour, he flew to Tokyo (00:25:49:00) While staying in Vietnam, he went to Nha Trang for the beaches, but that only involved hopping into a jeep and driving over, and to Saigon (00:26:12:00) � o The first time he went to Saigon was for the money run and the second time was to see a friend who he had served with in Sault Ste. Marie (00:26:39:00)  On the second trip, Lecours went with a man who was on his third tour and knew some Chinese people in the city; they ended up in the Cholon area after curfew, which meant they had to spend the night because of fighting in the area (00:23:18:00) o Saigon struck Lecours as a metropolitan city with a lot of people; it was not New York City but there was a lot of hustle and bustle (00:27:41:00)  He remembers getting onto a cycle-bike taxi and they ended up stopping in front of the embassy in Saigon; they heard yelling, telling them to move the bike, so off they went (00:28:01:00)  It was interesting that he could go into a city that was in the middle of a war zone, go to the Continental Hotel, and have a great meal (00:28:44:00)  Another time, Lecours went up and talked with a doorman who happened to be French and a holdover from before the war; this was not something that Lecours expected to see (00:28:53:00)  Cholon was the Chinese section of the city; he does not know who was fighting in the area and because of the curfew, even the police could shoot at them (00:29:36:00)  The lifestyle in Cholon and Vietnam was simply a different culture and it was something Lecours accepted (00:30:28:00)  One day, he heard Americans complaining that Americans had been there for seven years and the Vietnamese still did not speak English, to which Lecours retorted “why don’t you learn how to speak Vietnamese” (00:30:41:00)  Lecours knew enough Vietnamese to keep himself out of trouble; he learned the language from the momma-san who cleaned his hooch and other people who worked on the base (00:31:06:00) Lecours signed on for an extended tour partly because his investigation with the OSI into the corrupt doctor at the hospital on the base (00:31:26:00) o Another factor was that he would have thirty days of leave and he could be home for Christmas for the annual family reunion; however, some of the people at the reunion would be drunk for two weeks straight, an environment Lecours did not want to be in (00:31:37:00) o Lecours’ second tour in Vietnam only lasted six months (00:32:02:00)  The Army understood that there was only so much any man could withstand (00:32:27:00) o It was difficult when Lecours first came back from his Christmas leave but it was not like he had a choice, he just went back (00:32:46:00) o Lecours went home before Christmas 1968 and returned to Vietnam in January 1969 (00:33:12:00)  When he went home, Lecours did not see a lot of an anti-war sentiment because New Hampshire at the time was very conservative; as well, the places where he stayed were rather isolated and did not have a large population (00:33:26:00) �  He was also not watching a lot of television (00:34:11:00) One time, Lecours wrote a letter to the Manchester Union Leader, a very conservative newspaper, and asked the editor what they were doing in Vietnam; there were race riots and students taking over college campuses and Lecours believed that the soldiers should leave Vietnam if only to take care of problems at home (00:34:28:00) o The letter ended up winning an award as the best untitled letter to the editor, but Lecours never even went to the awards ceremony because he could have cared less (00:35:18:00) o When he first went to Vietnam, Lecours believed that there was a cost for freedom and it was his duty to defend that (00:35:40:00)  When Lecours went home for Christmas, he got into an argument with his father over why he volunteered to continued his tour (00:36:27:00)  Lecours partially believed in the domino theory as a credible reason to fight the war (00:37:13:00) Return to Vietnam / Extended Deployment (00:37:49:00)  When he went back to Vietnam, Lecours knew what he was going back to (00:37:49:00) o The first time he went over, Lecours felt it was going to be a one-way trip, a feeling he did not have the second time he went over; he felt more secure and that they had more protection (00:38:06:00)  Still, enemy attacked and sappers crawled on the base; one time, a sapper threw a satchel charge into a room where a nurse was writing a letter but thankfully, it was a dud (00:38:16:00) o That night, the only casualty was a Korean in the hospital who had lost his legs; they believe that he had seen the enemy because he had gotten himself out of bed and dragged his body after them (00:38:38:00) o One night, Lecours almost tripped over an enemy in his black pajamas as Lecours returned from the flight line; Lecours said something to the man and continued back to his hooch and thinking back, he realizes that the man was checking the locations of the planes for mortar or rocket strikes (00:38:58:00)  Lecours was returning either early in the morning or late at night from duty on the flight line, but he had no weapons to do anything to the enemy; he had been working at the pilot’s facility (00:39:26:00) o The pilot’s facility was in a bunker in a depression and if the enemy attacked, they could just lob a couple of grenades down into it (00:40:08:00) o The enemy attacks would sporadically hit a target (00:41:03:00)  If intelligence believed that a base was going to be attacked, then they would fly the planes into Cam Ranh Bay because of all the base’s security, including a detachment of Koreans guarding the coast (00:41:07:00) o The Korean soldiers were “awesome”; they fought the war in a much different way than the American soldiers (00:41:29:00)  They were well-equipped and had supplies and equipment that easily rivaled the American’s (00:41:45:00)  Whenever they brought back prisoners, the prisoners talked and one time, when they lost a soldiers, they strung up four or six VC on the wire around the facility and let them die (00:42:22:00) �     The average Vietnamese was trying to live his life and if they were someone of any intelligence, such as the mayor or the teacher, the VC would kill them (00:43:13:00) o The Vietnamese were caught between dealing with the Americans or being killed by the bad guys (00:43:32:00) The Americans went into the situation believing they were right in what they were doing but that belief wore down over time; the Vietnamese were committed but the American soldiers were there because it was their job (00:43:45:00) o It is difficult to win a war like that because on any given day, they would attack a hill, lose three or four men, and abandon the hill, yet two weeks later, they were attacking the same hill (00:44:10:00) o The phrase Lecours heard the most was “whatever patriotism I ever had, I’ve lost it since I’ve been here”; he heard it from all different soldiers (00:44:38:00) o Because it was the Air Force and the men did their jobs, but it still wore them down, especially going into the hospital (00:45:22:00) o The entire experience wore Lecours down; if they were going to fight the war, then fight the war, so instead of attacking the same hill day after day, attack the North (00:45:54:00) o The rules of engagement made the fighting difficult; the soldiers had to go through a process of recognition before they could fire on the VC, unless they had been fired upon; on one occasion, Snoopy, a converted C-130 gunship, requested permission to fire and was denied unless fired upon (00:47:08:00) He remembers a flight on Continental where the stewardess were serving everyone and Lecours thanked them because he knew some of the men were not coming back and those stewardesses were one of the last things the soldiers would remember (00:48:28:00) One thing that stands out in Lecours’ mind is the futility of the experience; the experience seemed futile to Lecours because they could not win the war the way that they were fighting it (00:49:28:00) On one occasion, a VC was trying to sneak up on another man at night and when Lecours gave the first order to halt, he pulled the bolt back on his rifle as well; the VC immediately stood up and surrendered (00:50:15:00) o Still, the men were given the rules they had to follow, which ended up hindering, more than helping, them (00:50:50:00) o To this day, Lecours would go back; he enjoyed the people and watching the kids playing with nothing and being happy (00:51:01:00) Return to the United States / End of Service (00:51:32:00)  From Vietnam, Lecours transferred to Washington D.C.; because it was the highest military location, Lecours thought it would be a great assignment (00:51:19:00) o Lecours was stationed at Bolling Air Force Base (00:51:32:00)  One of the first things that struck Lecours was the design of the officer’s club on the base, which he considers on of the top ten architectural wonders of the world (00:51:38:00) o While in Washington, Lecours went back to working in military pay (00:52:01:00) �  o After going to Vietnam, Lecours wanted some answers but when he went up to Capitol Hill, he realized that the Congressmen could not answer a yes or no question to save their life (00:52:25:00)  One time, Lecours went and talked with a man name Tom Macintyre, a supposed “straight-shooter” Senator from New Hampshire; and every time Lecours asked him a question, the Senator went to his filing cabinet and pulled out a newsletter; he discovered that almost all the congressmen were like that (00:52:36:00)  He also discovered that it was a wasteful society; they spent money like it was nothing, something Lecours was not prepared for (00:53:10:00) o Lecours was in Washington from July 1969 until March 1970 (00:53:31:00)  He worked predominantly with people of the same rank or lower, including two women (00:54:47:00)  One time, Lecours took one of the women out to dinner and when he came back, he received flak from the other one; he was just a kid and he did not know how to handle working with the women (00:55:10:00) o Lecours knew a colonel and his family really well and while he was in Washington, the colonel offered to get Lecours a tuxedo so that he could go to Nixon inauguration; he did not go, although now he wishes he had (00:55:51:00)  At the time, Lecours wanted nothing to do with the politicians; to him, the politicians were exactly what he expected them to be (00:56:12:00) o Another time, Lecours was invited to a Senate commission but he questioned what would have happened because none of the Senators could answer a yes or no question while in their office (00:56:23:00)  He would have just watched the commission, not given an sort of testimony (00:56:40:00) o When he went to Germany, Lecours did have to testify, but only as part of the investigation (00:57:00:00) When Lecours first joined the military, he did not expect to make a career of it; part of the influence was to get the GI Bill for financial help in college (00:57:15:00) o One thing that he missed was that if he came back from Vietnam and went to college, how would he handle to protests if they found out he was a Vietnam veteran (00:57:52:00) Everyone received the offer to re-enlist, especially with the offer of a promotion if they did so; they offered Lecours the opportunity to work with the OSI and to get special allowances for food and clothes (00:58:33:00) o However, Lecours believed the military was not going to go twenty years without a war; they were already fighting in countries he had never heard of, being from a small town in New Hampshire (00:58:56:00) o The appeal of staying in the military had its moments, but not after Washington; they could not fight a war from Washington because they did not fully know what was going on (00:59:40:00) Post-Military Life (01:00:03:00)  Lecours was finally discharged in 1970 (01:00:03:00) �   o One of the first things he did once he got out of the military was send resumes to publishing companies because he had worked with a publishing company before serving (01:00:09:00) o He began working for 84 Lumber in Baltimore and over time, the job became more appealing because Lecours believed the company had a good growth market in the area; however, Lecours looked at the manager, who was thirty-seven years old and ran from morning until evening, and he questioned if that was the life he really wanted to live (01:00:22:00) o After leaving 84 Lumber, Lecours returned home before interviewing with a publishing company, who hired him and assigned him to work in Michigan region as the regional sales manager for Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, and Ohio (01:01:02:00)  He had the largest wholesale in the world in Detroit and he could not conceptualize that Michigan was bigger than all of New England (01:00:26:00) o Lecours began working in Michigan in September 1970 and worked for the company until June or July of the following year (01:01:51:00)  Lecours slowly got burnt out of the job; his roommate worked in a different division of the company and was home every weekend with Lecours was gone for two weeks at a time (01:02:16:00) o While he was working for the publishing company, a man in Farm Bureau Insurance offered him a job, which Lecours accepted (01:03:06:00)  He started as an agent then transferred over to corporate (01:03:14:00) o Lecours was only with the company in 1971 and 1972 before he received the opportunity to work as a department head for an independent agent in Muskegon, Michigan (01:03:30:00)  Lecours worked in Muskegon from 1973 until 1978; he liked the city but his wife wanted to get back to Grand Rapids, Michigan, so in 1978, they moved back to Grand Rapids to work for a small insurance business (01:03:43:00) o During the 1980 recession, it was tough to find work and Lecours realized that the only people getting jobs were secretaries (01:04:23:00) o Finally, he got a job working for a consulting firm, where he worked for sixteen years working with the smaller companies that needed help (01:05:11:00) One time when he and his family went to visit Lecours’ parents, Lecours son threw his jacket on the floor and Lecours’ mother told him to pick it up and it was not something Lecours would do; she said that growing up, there was a place for everything and Lecours’ room was spotless (01:05:55:00) o However, she said that after he went to that Vietnam thing, he came back a pig (01:06:36:00) During the fighting things tended to lose perspective because they might be dead the next day (01:06:50:00) He gained more of an appreciation for life; life is tenuous (01:07:14:00) o He also gained insight into his government that he never should have gotten; it is better to walk around smart and happy (01:07:28:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LecoursP Title A name given to the resource Lecours, Paul (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lecours, Paul Description An account of the resource Paul Lecours was born in Lebanon, New Hampshire in 1946 and decided to join the U.S. Air Force in 1966 because of concerns that he wouldn't be able to keep his deferment from the draft. Following basic training, Lecours briefly served at a Strategic Air Command base in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan before deploying to Vietnam. During his tour in Vietnam, the Air Force stationed Lecours at Cam Ranh Bay in the military pay section. While with that section, Lecours worked on one occasion with the Office of Special Investigation doing an investigation of a corrupt doctor at the base hospital. Following his main tour, Lecours signed for a six month extension to finish said investigation then transferred to Washington D.C., where he finished the remainder of his time in the service. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-09-02 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/88615d7e36eafb5ca140d92768568f4f.mp4 969e00904d2a8d7c90bb354b57b224b7 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f88c433ee6e0b93847f162044c91c154.pdf 5afbf865fc9ddc5d0e9f5f4270849e7f PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans’ History Project Chris Leaver Peacetime Duty 1 hour 2 minutes 26 seconds (00:00:15) Early Life -Born in Toledo, Ohio -Mother was a bookkeeper -Father was a mechanical engineer -Moved around a few times -Parents divorced when he was six years old -Mother remarried when he was about thirteen years old -Moving made him comfortable with being a loner -Settled down in Madison, Indiana -Went to high school there -Not challenging for him -Small, rural community -Wanted to do a wide variety of things growing up -Couldn’t settle on one specific area -Didn’t visualize himself fulfilling the middle class model of “high school, college, job, family” -Wanted to go to college for engineering, computers, or electronics -Parents couldn’t afford that -Wanted to go to Purdue or Northwestern (00:03:09) Enlistment in the Navy -Applied for ROTC scholarship in high school and not selected -Heard about the GI Bill paying for college -Enlisted in the Navy to get money for college -Didn’t know what to expect -Recruiter didn’t give him a lot of information -Knew that he didn’t want to be a foot soldier -Knew that the Army or the Marine Corps was not for him -Wanted to work on fighter jets after seeing “Top Gun” (00:05:58) Basic Training -Went to boot camp in October 1989 -Trained in Orlando, Florida -Considered to be the easier boot camp to train at -Even in October it was hot from sunrise to sunset -Later into the winter it would be cold in the morning then hot in the afternoon -Coming from the Midwest he wasn’t prepared for the drastic temperature changes -Company commanders (drill instructors) were tough on the recruits -Entered into training with a 99% on the ASVAB (Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery) -Large number of recruits wanted to go into nuclear training -Graduated around the middle of December 1989 -Got two weeks of leave after that �(00:08:42) Adjusting to Life in the Military -Being a loner made adjustment to military living and teamwork difficult -Was used to working on his own -Wanted to complete training for his own sense of accomplishment -Adjusting was difficult, but was able to overcome the difficulty -Took a little bit of time to understand why the drill instructors were being tough on them -Fifth day of the first week was devoted to entirely breaking them down as individuals -After that could be built up as a unit -Brother (who had been in Marines) gave general advice about training -Nothing too specific because of the differences between the Navy and the Marines (00:12:01) Details about Basic Training -Spent a lot of time in the classroom -Basic naval training -Navigating around a ship -Types of aircraft -Knot tying -Basic firefighting -Put out actual fires in training scenarios -Fires were considered to be extremely dangerous on ships -Training lasted for about eight weeks and three days -Also had “processing days” for time to fill the company ranks -Training lasted about nine weeks for him all toll (00:13:52) Basic Aviation Electronics School -Went to Millington, Tennessee for basic aviation electronics school -Basic aviation electronics -Started with basic algebra -Trained by civilian math teachers -Actually taught a teacher a shortcut on a math problem -School was divided into six sections -Sections mentioned in the interview: -Basic math -Simple electronics -Advanced electronics -Training with naval electronics -Used training equipment that could be broken and repaired by recruits (00:17:25) Gender in the Navy -Men and women were kept separate in some cases, but integrated in others -Companies were either all male or all female -His “sister” company (company they worked with) was an all-female company -Worked together in classrooms -In school they slept in dormitory style barracks -Gender separated rooms -Integrated common areas (00:19:25) Advanced First Term Avionics -Two thirds of his class went to a fleet deployment -His third of the class went on to complete Advanced First Term Avionics (AFTA) training �-Had to wait for class to form -Sat around the base for two months cleaning the barracks -Went home on leave for a week -AFTA class was formed after that -Program lasted about three months -Spent a year in Millington -Six months of basic aviation school -Two months of downtime -Three months of AFTA -Went home on Christmas leave (00:20:39) Details about AFTA -AFTA simulators were sophisticated and computer driven -Lots of instruction and lab work involved -More focus dedicated to creative problem solving as opposed to rigid instruction (00:21:25) First Deployment-Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -Filled out preference sheet prior to deployment -Wanted to travel to distant, exotic places -Picked Alaska and New Zealand -Got deployed to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -Heard that it was a bad deployment -Didn’t want to go, but didn’t have enough clout to request redeployment -Guantanamo Bay was like a vacation after training -Started day at 7:30 AM and was done by 4:00 PM -Desert like conditions -Smaller half of the base was an airbase -Larger half of the base was for ships and training grounds -Had a general store, gas station, and outdoor movie theatre for recreational purposes -Did a lot of running -Had access to cable -Was only stationed there for ninety days -Assigned to airbase -Aviation electronics shop (00:25:02) Fleet Readiness Aviation Maintenance Program -Another part of training before Cuba, but after AFTA -Taught how to work on specific naval gear -Located in Naval Air Station Oceania at Virginia Beach, Virginia -By February it was warm enough to wear spring clothing on the beach (00:26:02) Gulf War while at Virginia Beach -Was on patrol when the Gulf War began -Was at the check-in desk and he was told that the bombardment had begun -CNN was broadcasting the frontline news -Instructor for class was two hours late the next day -Base was fortified overnight -Intense security screening for anyone entering the base -Went home for a few days on leave after completion of FRAMP -Came back when the aircraft carriers and fighter jets were returning �(00:28:39) Duties at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -There was no work for him to get done -Spent his days looking over training manuals -Learned how to repair gear that he hadn’t had experience with before -He was there for three months and no gear came in for repair -Had to pull watch duty once every couple weeks -Had to watch for illegal Cubans trying to stow away on aircraft -Encountered land crabs while patrolling empty barracks -They would chase you down if confronted -No one could leave or come into the base unless by plane -He was part of the eighteen month rotation for bachelors -You could get into a lottery for a leave to Puerto Rico -Eighteen month rotation to Cuba counted as thirty six months at sea (00:32:23) Naval Academy -While at Millington he applied for the ROTC Scholarship again and the Naval Academy -Came home on leave and had been awarded the ROTC Scholarship -Got to Cuba and got notified that he had been admitted into the Naval Academy -Wishes he would have just taken the ROTC Scholarship and gone to college -Shipped back to the States -Got a week and a half of leave -Reported to the Naval Academy at Annapolis, Maryland -First semester was more of boot camp style training -Spent a summer getting broken down and rebuilt again -More psychologically driven this time and not physical -Struggled with the adjustment to the Naval Academy -Put forth effort and focus in the second semester -Got on the Commandant’s List because of his achievements -Wound up doing terribly in engineering courses during sophomore year -Did phenomenally well in other courses -Practical and hands on courses were his specialty -End of sophomore year it was 1993 -Manpower reduction was going to be authorized by President Clinton -Got discharged and sent home in May 1993 (00:38:44) Second Deployment-Anacostia, Washington DC -Second week of August received a letter from the Navy -Told to report to Anacostia, Washington DC by August 31, 1993 -Had been hoping he could just go to college and not worry about the Navy -Reported to Anacostia -Got transferred multiple places over a few days -Got processed back into the system -Was sent to Bethesda for a medical examination -Assigned to Bachelor’s Officers Quarters as a staff worker -Officer in charge was demoralizing and unprofessional -Scammer, in charge of illegal gambling -Stayed there for two months �(00:41:33) Second Deployment-Andrews Air Force Base -Got sent to Andrews Air Force Base in November 1993 -Attached to VAQ209 Tactical Electronic Warfare Squadron -Was going to work on EA6B’s that were used for electronic warfare -Was part of a TAR (training, administration, and reservist) unit -Considered to be active duty personnel -Didn’t usually go to sea though -His group would go out for war games on occasion -Cleaned the barracks for a few weeks -Did public works for about a month or two -He was told that they didn’t need a soldier working in the shop -Was assigned to be a trainer -He (a 3rd class petty officer) served alongside a 2nd class officer and a senior chief -Quickly realized why it was not a desirable position -2nd class officer was a control freak -Senior chief was spineless when it came to conflicts -Demoralizing and disenfranchising to see that (00:45:10) Going Home -Filled out paperwork for manpower reduction to voluntarily leave the Navy -Commanding officer denied it -Didn’t want the active slot to be left empty -Phone rang one morning and the 2nd class officer called -Told him that he (Leaver) was being sent home -Had to be off military property by December 16, 1994 -Took a week to train his replacement before leaving -Had everything packed and ready to go -Couldn’t find anyone to sign papers -Found a woman in a vacant office by happenstance -Officially left the Navy on December 16, 1994 (00:48:46) Computer Career -After leaving the Navy he got into computers -Enjoyed it and started working in IT -Worked with bigger companies over the years -Worked in computers for twenty years -Part of him wants to move on and get into a different field -Also wants to take care of his family though (00:49:52) September 11th and the Naval Reserves -9/11 deeply emotionally distressed him -Waited a year and in 2002 he talked to a recruiter -Joined the Michigan Naval Reserve -Kept his E4 rank and given six months to complete IT course -Only took three months to complete -Able to take E5 exam in 2003 -Prior experience in the Navy was helpful for being in the Reserve -Lost his civilian job in the summer of 2003 �-Being in the Reserve was helpful -Spent fifty eight days in training (above the normal required amount) -Applauded and rewarded for his volunteerism in Mayport, Florida -While in Mayport during training visited his sister in Orlando -Also went to Seaworld for free -Part of Budweiser’s campaign to give back to veterans (00:55:30) Reflections on Veterans -Appreciates companies that give back to veterans -Believes veterans should be treated better -Just doing their job -Don’t deserve to get attacked by civilians, the media, or politicians -Attack the politicians; they’re the ones to go to for grievances -Talks to Vietnam and Gulf War veterans whenever he can (00:57:05) Medical Issues and Change of Reserve Status -Did a few more years in the Reserve then started to have medical issues -Untreated bowlegged condition led to pain and severe issues by 2005 -Saw an orthopedic surgeon -Got slip to exempt him from running -Navy will only deal with medical exemptions for so long -They want you to be put before a medical board for evaluation -Got off active duty reserve status -Got placed into individual ready reserve in 2006 -Served a couple years on and off -Twelve years out of twenty year enlistment -Had a lapse in service -Wants to re-up -Would have to go to active duty again -Knees aren’t ready for that yet -Had second corrective knee surgery -Considers trying to re-up -Try to get his full twenty years in -Had to have leg straightening procedure done -Doesn’t want to be away from his family because of being active duty (00:59:57) Reflections on Service -Difficult times in Navy taught him how to adjust to situations -Being young and stubborn made learning difficult -In the Reserve he realized that he had to be his own force for change in life -GI Bill was instrumental in getting him to college -Went to Davenport College before going into Reserve -Got his bachelor’s degree in applied science and network engineering in 2006 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LeaverC1568V Title A name given to the resource Leaver, Chris (Interview outline and video), 2014 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Leaver, Chris Description An account of the resource Chris Leaver is a US Navy veteran that was on active duty in the late 1980s and the early 1990s and later in the early to mid-2000s (post 9/11). He was born in Toledo, Ohio and his family eventually moved to Madison, Indiana. After high school he enlisted in the Navy to get money for college. He went to Orlando, Florida for boot camp in October 1989 spent a year at Millington, Tennessee, training in aviation electronics. He was deployed to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, later accepted to the Naval Academy where he attended for two years, and was then sent to Andrews Air Force Base. He left the Navy in 1994, but joined the Michigan Naval Reserves in 2002, and went on active duty until 2006. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-02-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2965eda62346756afc414d0e6d766228.mp4 b1e9ec1ac53163af8264713981f35b11 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/02ad42dc29b595fefb360f0651bc461a.pdf 856a880b8c6e5575e6a8be50db3733f5 PDF Text Text Interview Notes Interview Length (50:00) Gregory Laws US Army Pre-Enlistment Born June 1, 1946 in Chicago, Illinois (0:20) Mother was a homemaker, moved to Muskegon, Michigan to work with her father (1:00) Lived in Muskegon Heights for awhile (1:20) Neighbors took care of each other (1:30) Attended Martin Luther King, Jr School, then Lindbergh, then Angel, then to Steele School. All schools were elementary/Junior high and integrated (2:30) Finished high school in 1964 (3:00) Could not find a job in the factories in Muskegon, so he moved to Chicago and worked in the factories there, eventually started driving a bus (3:30) Was drafted into the Vietnam War, but refused to go to the war and worked in a hospital (4:00) Enlisted in the Air Force as a combat engineer (4:45) Training Was sent to Fort Leavenworth, Missouri (5:05) Was older than most of the guys he trained with (5:30) Responded to military discipline faster than the others (5:45) Managed to stay out of trouble (7:00) Enlisted in 1975 (7:20) Learned how to build and demolish bridges as a combat engineer (8:50) Was married and had children living with him during basic (9:45) Housing was paid for during this time (10:30) Enlistment Spent from 1975-1977 in Fort Leavenworth (8:00) Supported other infantry companies, building different kinds of bridges (8:30) Enjoyed his work, but came home tired (11:30) Had to qualify with weapons once a year, also was on the M-60 machine gun crew (11:45) Was transferred to Heidelberg, Germany, in 1977 (12:30) Brought his family with him toward the end of 1977 (13:30) Germany Life was a little slower in Germany than Fort Leavenworth (14:00) Began building Mobile Assault Bridges during this time (14:40) Went on exercises with different countries once a year during war games (15:30) Had to get permission from the German government to bridge the Rhine river, and could only stop traffic for so long (16:00) Trained on other NATO tug boats (17:00) �Enjoyed high morale in the Army while he was in, despite the loss in Vietnam (18:45) Had some members in his unit that had done time in Vietnam (20:30) Traveled off base often, because he was in charge of keeping up the morale of the unit and their families (22:10) Attained rank of Sergeant (E-5) and was assigned to the Headquarters unit (23:10) Duties included getting maps, driving the Major around, making sure people went to school (civilian and military) (23:30) Could even take college courses via computer terminals in the early 1980’s (24:45) Took his kids to see the Berlin Wall before it came down (25:15) Wife and kids were able to see East Germany, shop around (27:00) Stayed in the Army for 25 years, two tours total in Germany (27:25) United States Between tours, was at Fort Stewart, Georgia, Fort Knox, Kentucky, and Fort Leavenworth (28:40) Volunteered to help out at the Special Olympics while at Fort Knox (29:00) Did not go to the Gulf War because he was the only living son of his mother (31:20) Stayed at Fort Leavenworth to train troops to go (31:45) Military changed quite a bit since he has been in (32:45) Much more politically correct today (33:15) More high-tech military today than it used to be, as well (34:45) Military levels the playing field, especially for minorities (35:30) Was respected as long as he did his job. Bullets do not see in black and white (37:50) Saw women in the field while he was in the service (39:30) Post-Enlistment Teaches ROTC in Muskegon, Michigan (41:25) Substituting in the Muskegon school district, and saw they needed an extra instructor (41:50) Teaches kids structure, discipline, respect and to give back to the community (42:15) Teach academics and physical training and awards given for achievement (43:00) Cannot recruit for the military (43:45) Program is very well supported by the Muskegon community (45:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LawsG Title A name given to the resource Laws, Gregory (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Laws, Gregory Description An account of the resource Gregory Laws served in the US Army as a Combat Engineer. He served in the Army for 25 years, spending two tours of that time in Germany. As a Combat Engineer, Gregory learned how to build and demolish bridges, and was eventually promoted to the rank of Sergeant (E-5). Gregory now teaches an ROTC program in Muskegon. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-01-12 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/34ca4a79a3fec40ac82edbc145d4d90c.m4v 45464b30b7cbb288fd5d5c4c123b0d6d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/12d5ed9dbe2dfd6deb1a30b45acf0382.pdf b39282428fff94659e5e0d8fff90bb54 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project World War II Samuel Latigo Interview Length: (00:23:58:00) Pre-Enlistment / Training (00:01:01:00)  Born in San Antonio, Texas on February 19, 1927 (00:01:01:00)  Went to school, but eventually stopped going when it got to the point that his family needed financial help (00:01:07:00)  His grandmother raised him because his mother died when he was five years old and when he was fifteen years old, his grandmother told him that he needed to go and look for a job (00:01:23:00)  He walked all over San Antonio looking for a job and was unable to find one; he was on his way home when he stopped at a gas station and asked the workers who was in charge (00:01:43:00) o The workers pointed to another man, so Latigo went up and asked whether or not he needed any help; the man eventually gave Latigo the job after asking whether or not he was looking for one (00:02:00:00) o Worked at the gas station to the point that he received the keys to the station and helped run the station (00:02:27:00)  Eventually got to the point that all his relatives, mainly his first cousins, were joining the service, with the majority were going into the Navy (00:02:45:00)  When he turned seventeen, he had his parents give him permission to join the Navy because that was where the majority of his cousins were enlisted (00:03:01:00)  Upon joining the service, the Navy sent him to San Diego, California, where he received his basic training (00:03:30:00)  After he completed his basic training, the Navy allowed him to go home for three days before he returned to California for more drilling (00:03:41:00) o At the time, the men called the training a “grinder”, which consisted of men marching in an empty parking lot (00:03:54:00)  Following the “grinder”, the men received amphibious training at Coronado Island, an island next to San Diego and after the training, the Navy placed the sailors on a training vessel that took the men to Astoria, Oregon (00:04:04:00) o At Astoria, the sailors were assigned to a ship, which ironically, had not yet been commissioned, thus making the sailors part of the ship’s original crew and giving Latigo what was then called “the rights of the plank” (00:04:29:00)  Once they received their assignment, the sailors went up the Colombia River from Astoria to San Francisco, California and from San Francisco, they picked up the combat equipment of some Army soldiers because they had the holds in the ship to carry it (00:04:59:00)  The ship Latigo served on was a troop transport named the U.S.S. Edgecombe, APA-164 (APA-Amphibious Personnel Assault), who’s primary mission was taking personnel from one location to another (00:05:30:00) �     When they left San Francisco, the Edgecombe had soldiers aboard and the men sailed them to New Guinea, where they dropped the troops off before continuing to the Philippines (00:06:22:00) o They eventually traveled all over the South Pacific (00:06:40:00) Latigo’s job on the Edgecombe was working in the engine room, mainly maintaining the evaporator that helped make fresh water out of the salt water so that the sailors could have drinking water and water to shower in (00:06:48:00) The location of the evaporator was next to location that received orders from the bridge dictating the numbers of RPM the bridge wanted, which they transmitted through a series of series of levers (00:07:15:00) o Due to his location, Latigo’s other job was to write down the orders that came from the bridge (00:07:39:00) o There was no erasing, so Latigo had to write down what the order was and what time the order was given and he had to be very careful (00:07:47:00) Apart from those two primary jobs, he also had to help keep the engine room clean because when the skipper came down for inspection, the room had to be clean (00:08:09:00) Does not recall the exact number of men in the engine room because there were different turns to do a job, but he estimates the number to be around a hundred men in each turn (00:08:30:00) Okinawa (00:09:05:00)  The Edgecombe was involved with the invasion of Okinawa on April 1, 1945 (00:09:05:00) o Latigo’s job during the landing was acting as a gunner on one of the boats that landed the troops on the shore; if the boat came under attack, his job was to “fight back” and he ended up firing one time while he was the gunner (00:09:17:00)  They landed troops several times and it was not only Latigo’s boat, but boats from several other ships that helped land the troops (00:09:55:00) o The boats would land the troops then return to the Edgecombe, reload with soldiers, and take them to the beach (00:10:12:00) o Because the Edgecombe was just far enough away from the beach to drop anchor and be out of the way of enemy bombardment, it took around and hour and a half to land all the troops on the Edgecombe (00:10:41:00)  Every time they landed troops, they would have to circle around waiting for the Edgecombe to be ready before they could return and pick up another load of troops to bring to the beach (00:11:00:00)  The troops would come down a rope ladder to get into Latigo’s boat and they would have to circle around, waiting for the other transports to be ready to go to the beach (00:11:07:00)  Initially, they did not come under attack but they witnessed quite a few dogfights between U.S. and Japanese aircraft (00:11:30:00) o However, they needed to be very careful because the Japanese would come onto their ship and ask the officer-in-charge if it was such and such a ship (00:11:42:00) �      o The men would reply that it was because the Japanese would throw grenades onto the ships; this meant that the sailors had to be extra vigilant during the invasion as to who exactly came onto their ship (00:12:01:00) Only participated in the battle of Okinawa, although they did drop soldiers of in New Guinea and the Philippines (00:12:22:00) o They had an idea of what the purpose of the drop-offs were for, the eventual invasion of Japan, but after the U.S. dropped the atomic bombs, they stopped pushing for the invasion of Japan (00:12:47:00) The Edgecombe was one of the first ships to take occupational troops to Japan, specifically, the Northern Ansu region (00:13:08:00) o After the war, Latigo ended up walking on Japanese soil, when the Edgecombe landed the occupational troops (00:13:29:00) They had one sailor pass away on the Edgecombe; they think the death was from overexhausting and they ended up giving the man a burial-at-sea (00:14:11:00) o For the burial, the dead sailor was wrapped in a canvas bag which was sown up, placed on a wooden slab, which had one end over the side of the ship and the other end had the dead sailor covered in an American flag (00:14:39:00) o The ship’s chaplain gave a service and when he gave the okay, the end of the slab on the ship was raised and the body slid into the ocean (00:15:24:00) They were constantly at sea and they only time that they were able to get off of the Edgecombe was when they ship was in Pearl Harbor (00:15:45:00) o They had fuel tankers that would come along side the Edgecombe, which would take fuel on while staying at sea (00:16:13:00) o At the time he was there, Pearl Harbor was still in shambles; it had not been rebuilt (00:16:24:00) They received the okay to come home in January, 1946 (00:16:45:00) When they were in Okinawa, he was able to read Morse code transmitted by light from ship to ship (00:17:07:00) o He was not a signalman but Latigo was still able to read it and one time, while still aboard ship at Okinawa, he was reading a message and he told his buddy that the other ship had sent the message that Roosevelt had died (00:17:23:00) o They had not heard anything about the death, but it was not long after that they were informed that Roosevelt had indeed passed away (00:17:46:00) Post-War (00:18:03:00)  After the war, they came home in January, 1946 (00:18:03:00) o When they came home, they went to Portland, Oregon and on the way to Portland, Latigo was informed that he could be discharged because he had accumulated enough points (00:18:12:00) o During that period, people were discharged from the military based on points, which Latigo had enough of (00:18:28:00) o Does not recall the amount of points needed for discharge, but remembers that nineteen points was enough for him to be discharged (00:18:47:00)  Did not make any lasting friendships while in the Navy because to his knowledge, he was the only man from Texas on the Edgecombe (00:19:08:00) o One other man was from South Haven, Michigan (00:19:24:00) �      A couple of years after the war, he reenlisted into the reserves, where he stayed for a further five years (00:19:43:00) Following his time in the service, Latigo went back to work at the gas station where he had worked before the war; however, the owner was different, so Latigo did not care of the job and he quit (00:20:11:00) Then, he was on what was called a “fifty-two twenty”, meaning that the government was giving the returning service men twenty dollars a week for fifty-two weeks (00:20:30:00) o The money was not enough for him, so he got a job working at a refrigerator factory in San Antonio, although he only made fifty cents an hour (00:20:45:00) After the “fifty-two twenty” expired, Latigo’s uncle, who lived in Michigan and worked at Ford, went on vacation and when he returned, he asked Latigo if he wanted to go as well to see if he could get a job at Ford as well (00:21:13:00) o Latigo did want to go and he did end up getting the job at Ford (00:21:33:00) o He had a girlfriend that he left behind in San Antonio and he could not live without her, so he quit Ford and went back to San Antonio (00:21:42:00) o However, Latigo and the girlfriend broke up and he did not date after a while (00:22:00:00) Eventually, he met his future wife, a woman that he had known for all his life, when he was sitting on the porch of his cousin’s house in San Antonio when she walked past (00:22:12:00) o Latigo’s cousin said that he would ask the woman out on a date and Latigo said that he was going to ask her out on a date (00:22:27:00) o He did ask her out on a date and they started dating (00:22:33:00) When the two got married, they came to Michigan and they have lived in Michigan since (00:22:39:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LatigoS Title A name given to the resource Latigo, Samuel (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Latigo, Samuel Description An account of the resource Samuel Latigo was born in 1927 in San Antonio, Texas. Raised by his grandmother, he worked as a teen before enlisting in the Navy at the age of seventeen. Following training in San Diego, the Navy assigned him to the troop transport U.S.S. Edgecombe. The Edgecombe carried troops to New Guinea and the Philippines and participated in the invasion of Okinawa and the landing of occupation troops in Japan following the end of the war. Following the end of the war, the Edgecombe returned to the United States and the Navy discharged Latigo. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ryan, Kelci (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-03-27 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bce330849f302bf9d14d53353e2aa3d0.mp4 c81c332d41d11fbca322676ddb99eda3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f9299c4e8a0266180afa0e66f9af7c33.pdf e7f3058ba9565d371545fa780b1a7727 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Notes Length: 49:07 Albert Larsen WWII Veteran United States Navy; December 1942 to October 1945 YMS minesweeper (00:25) Pre-enlistment: • Born in Arcadia but moved at the age of five to Chicago • Lived in Chicago for seven years (1928-34) • Left Chicago right after Worlds Fare closed and moved to Corunna, MI • Moved to Grand Rapids were he finished his senior year in high school, but had to graduate in Corunna • After graduation he drove trucks for a company in Grand Rapids • Soon after getting a job he got a draft notice from Uncle Sam (2:11)Enlistment/Training: • Joined Navy because the amenities • Trained for nine weeks in the Great Lakes • While at the Great Lakes naval base he stayed in new facilities, but they lacked hot water • Went to diesel school at Navy Pier for a total 18 weeks • After diesel school he went to the Fargo building in Boston where he waited until he was sent to his next location • From Boston he was sent to Boothbay Harbor where he would overlook the ship building process in order to have a better understanding of the ships • Saw the YMS ships being built in Chicago while on liberty time (5:31) Description of the Mine sweeping ships (YMS): • Length was 136 ft., weight was approximately 200 tons, draft was 9 feet • The ships had to go through a process that demagnetized them (6:56) Boothbay (further description): • Fishing town • He waited there until his boat was finished • They took the boat for a trial run in the Atlantic • Brought the boat to Boston where they took part in a shakedown cruise (test drive that tested the limits of the ship) (9:03) The Captain: • He was 70 years old when he was brought back into service • He owned the Marblehead, MA, newspaper. �• After the mission had been seen through the executive officer took over as captain of the ship (9:44) Patrols: • From Boston they would patrol from Nova Scotia to Key West, FL. • They would be searching for U-boats, and even sent depth charges once after a possible sighting by their radar/sound man. (10:55) Leaving for England: • They left April 1st 1943 • The convey consisted of 129 ships • The weather was very bad during the trip there (100 ft. waves) • It took 31 days to reach England (13:15) In England: • Went to Plymouth and Isle White • Lived on board their ship • Got to go ashore/shore leave- went to London from Plymouth (14:45) Before D-day operations: • Had to clear the beaches for the invasion at Omaha • Did the sweeping only hours before the full invasion • They were shot at during those sweeping mission which they did with no escort • After the invasion they went on more sweeping mission. • Had to avoid enemy fire using tactics the captain had learned to employ • They had no knowledge of the plans before D-day • In total five mine sweeping ships were sunk (18:15) Mine Sweeping: • 3 types of mines: Contact, Magnetic, and Acoustic • Contact mines are the types of mines we think of when we see mines with spikes jutting out of them. Ships simply ran into them to set them off • Magnetic mines would be set off by the metal on the ships • Acoustic mines could be blown up a ½ mile away with an acoustic hammer • They were on sweeping duty for around 6 months • They were one of the three most damaged ships in the invasion that did not sink • They dry docked at a French floating dock • While there they helped unload patients (24:10) Story of Doctor from Michigan: • Meet Doctor Mayo who he knew once • He was being sent home because his nerves were bad due to working on so many patients during the war (27:00) Cherbourg: • The buildings were in shambles �• The city was being made read to be used a base of operations • He talked about one particular friend that live in Cherbourg that was an artist (27:58) New Orders: • He and his crew got orders to go back to the US a 1 ½ years after the invasion • Went through Panama canal to LA • Went to dentist while docked in LA, and got new order due to his visit • New job was driving trucks as part of a motor pool on base • His boat went on to Japan leaving him in LA (bad weather on way to Japan) (29:59) Atomic Bomb: • His only knowledge of the event was what was on the news • Remembered people being happy about the news because they were getting ready to invade Tokyo (30:04) After Discharged: • He went on to do mechanic work (truck lines, locomotives) • He was never without work and never unemployed (31:10) Pearl Harbor: • Only remembered the emotions of excitement over the news (32:08) Experience on the Ocean: • Waves were very high which caused many to be sea sick • “Wooden ships make iron men” (33:12) Death of FDR • Made him uncertain of how things would turn out • Truman was thought to be the gutsy one (33:53) Story of French Fisherman: • While sweeping for mines near France they found a mine near a fisherman who did not understand their calls to him to get out of the area. The mine was blown up and the resulting explosion caused the fisherman to paddle away frantically. He understood then. (35:00) Chief Petty Officer 1st Class: • In charge of the engine room on the starboard watch • Some description of the leadership role involved (36:00) D-Day: • He describes the sight of the ships and planes during the invasion • He also describes how the docks were built of the shore during the invasion • Some depiction of what it was like for the men that were sent to the beaches • Boat got repaired while the main invasion took place �(40:40) After Invasion: • Had to get refueled by tankers • Had further missions to mine sweep rivers • Docking in France (42:28) Sinking of the 304: • Saw his ship in the TV program called Sea Detectives • The 278 and the 231 were also there • He was sleeping at the time • Soldiers who had witnessed the explosion had been injured by concussion (43:55) Damage to the Ship: • Motors would get loose and the engine would shift an inch out of line • The rudders would be squashed shut (45:00) Battleships: • He could feel his clothes blow around with each shot of their armament • His boat stayed close to the heavy cruiser Augusta • They were about a ½ mile out from the beach (46:01) Army Ducks [DUKWs]: • They would be loaded of liberty ships • Many would sink do to the choppy waters • Picked up one guy seven times due to his duck sinking that many times • Tanks would also launch into the water with very little success � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LarsenA Title A name given to the resource Larsen, Albert (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Larsen, Albert Description An account of the resource Albert Larsen served in the Navy during WW II as a diesel mechanic for a mine sweeping ship (YMS 231). He served from 1942 to 1945 and reached the rank of Chief Petty Officer 1st class. His training took place in both Michigan and on the east coast, and his time overseas was spent in England and along the coast of France. His interview includes descriptions of his life during training and his time on the open water. The major operation mentioned in the interview took place during D-Day off the Omaha landing site. His re-counting includes details about the mines, enemy fire, types of ships, operational tactics, and the damage sustained by his and other ships. He discusses his down time in the US, England and France. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-07-03 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e28657f0f6c18b1c7fcdb418c5cdab88.mp4 a7d3a5d6c67521292e9c9d76db52b2b2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3f960a6d358b87263d0716cf26aa21f5.pdf d81a884984a61e436667a3476e235249 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Afghanistan (2012-2013) Joseph Larner Total Time – (00:49:19) Introduction – (00:00:15)  Joseph Larner was born in Lansing, Michigan on September 29th, 1976 and grew up in Bath, Michigan; his father was a mechanic and his mother worked as a dental hygienist- Joe also has two brothers and is the middle child (00:00:53)  Joe graduated from Bath High School in 1995 and attended and graduated Lansing Community College as a surgical technician (00:01:36) ◦ At the age of 29 Joe decided to enlist in the National Guard in the year 2007; Joe had a full time civilian job and “really had no reason” why he joined the National Guard and the Army over other branches of military (00:03:05) ◦ He did his training as a combat engineer at Ft. Leonard Wood, Missouri and was gone just under six months; he left on October 2nd 2007 for training (00:03:58) ◦ Joe recalls that his training wasn't too challenging for him and psychically it wasn't an issue at all, but mentally it was a bit more torturous (00:06:15) ◦ He has been assigned to the 507th Engineer Battalion since he finished basic training (00:07:13) ▪ Joe is now full time with the National Guard and admin and commanding officer of his company (00:08:25) ▪ As soon as Joe and his company got word they were going to be deployed to Afghanistan the training intensified; they had about a year notice of their deployment (00:12:14) ▪ He trained in the Mojave Desert in California to train and prepare for Afghanistan; there was a lot of human interaction and real world scenarios to train to (00:13:04) Afghanistan (00:14:50)  Joe and his unit deployed in May of 2012 to Afghanistan; they flew from Grand Rapids Airport to Ft. Bliss in Texas and stayed there for several weeks- much of it was administrative and medical clearance; from there they trained for a month and a half in New Mexico (00:16:37)  From Ft. Bliss he traveled to Bangor, Maine, from there he traveled to Ireland and finally Tajikistan (00:18:25) ◦ They were briefed in Tajikistan for a few weeks; he was told what to expect while in Afghanistan as it was quite intense (00:18:58) ◦ From Tajikistan, Joe and his unit flew on a C130 cargo plane and describes the process as feeling strange; they landed at Camp Leatherneck in Afghanistan (00:21:48) ▪ The heat of Afghanistan was quite extreme and was the first thing that really hit Joe (00:22:20) ▪ Camp Leatherneck was a Forward Operating Base (FOB) and was ran by Marines when Joe first got there but was eventually taken over by the Army; he described it as a little mini-city in the middle of the desert (00:23:13) ▪ As a combat engineer Joe was trained to in Improvised Explosive Device (IED) detection and worked as support for the battalion commander (00:24:18) ▪ Joe's battalion commander went on several missions with him as well as the company �chaplain and the command sergeant major (00:26:41)  Joe and the unit did security for other companies all year long as well; they would put a few gun trucks between the other trucks to keep everyone secure- Joe has been in large convoys of 60-70 vehicles long but they are usually 10-12 vehicles long (00:27:39)  On average most of Joe's convoys were about 8-12 vehicles long; most of the time he was heading to different FOB's (00:28:27)  After a few days in Afghanistan, Joe and his crew received a battle hand off from the unit that was there before them- the prior unit would tell them of important areas of interest (00:30:35)  Although Joe was trained to detect IED's, he was put on a team that stuck to doing security- he also trained the Afghan National Army on combat engineer tactics (00:31:50) ◦ Joe's experience training Afghan soldiers concluded with him saying that they don't have the time or the patience to take the precautions that the Americans took with IED's (00:33:23) ◦ Sometimes they received intelligence about IED locations through Afghani locals although they would mostly get their information from their telecommunications headquarters (00:35:24) ◦ His experience with the local population was 50/50 as far as behavior went: sometimes the locals would wave to them and sometimes they would throw rocks at them, it was pretty tough to deal with (00:37:40) ▪ When Joe was at Camp Leatherneck he had pretty good contact with his family back at home; but when he went out on missions it was quite tough to keep in touch (00:39:18) ▪ Joe provides that near the end of their deployment, the morale was actually good although it was quite hot for them which meant a lot of action- they were all ready to come home (00:42:24) Back to the United States (00:44:53)  Joe and his unit were sent back to Ft. Bliss in Texas for a few weeks; he surprised his three children by coming home a month early (00:45:59)  Joe now works full time for the National Guard and he loves it (00:49:13) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LarnerJ1572V Title A name given to the resource Larner, Joseph (Interview outline and video), 2014 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Larner, Joseph Description An account of the resource Joseph Larner was born in Lansing, Michigan on September 29th, 1976. Joe decided to join the National Guard at the age of 29 in 2007. He trained as a combat engineer at Ft. Leonard Wood, Missouri. Joe was assigned to the 507th Engineer Battalion. Joe and his unit deployed to Afghanistan in May of 2012. Joe did security for convoys for most of his time in Afghanistan. He is currently serving in a full time position with the Guard. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McGregor, Michael (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American United States. National Guard Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-03-08 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/84ed4510a48744c5f745d0fb3eed752c.mp4 83b993064e97c798cf729568c16b2c0d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e998027fa6622a68452c5a35fa4e978b.pdf bcf3d7c6fe86ed96363281e155ea23b4 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Gordon Lantz (35:30) Back ground Information (00:26)                He was born in Leslie, Michigan, on April 7th 1930. (00:30) He had 6 siblings. He was the 4th child born in the family. (00:54) His father was a farmer when Gordon was young, however after World War II he got a job in a factory. (1:10) When he was age 3-7 he worked on the farm picking up corn cobs. From 1933-1937. (1:40) His hands were wounded as result of his military service. (2:12) At age 10 he joined the boy scouts in 1940. He ended up being a Scout Master. (2:19) When he was 14 a military recruiter cam to see his Boy Scout troop march in 1944. (3:19) Military experience was easy to adjust to because of what he learned in the Boy Scouts. (3:55) There were about 14 boys in the troop who could march. They would often march in parades. (4:27) He attended school through 8th grade (approx 1944) then he started work. (5:00) He ended up working on farms. He enjoyed this work. (5:20) He enlisted in the National Guard. He had a lot of pride in this and he kept his uniform very proper. (5:56) The National Guard was located in Jackson, Michigan. Because it was only 16 miles away he used his money to buy a car so he could drive to the meeting. (6:21) In addition to marching, he also learned how to handle weapons. (7:10) He was then drafted, and he was sent to Alabama for basic training. (8:00) Basic training (8:00)     They were very impressed with his skill when he went into the military. He was in good shape and he did not think that basic training was very difficult. (8:20) He did not receive and special training aside from leadership. (9:08) He was paid based on rank. He wanted to advance in rank because if he didn’t he wouldn’t make the money he believed he deserved. (9:20) After completing his Basic training he was sent to Korea. (9:50) Service in the Korean Conflict (approx. 1950-1953) (10:00)   He was sent into Korea with his outfit as reinforcements. (10:15) He arrived in Korea and was placed behind the front line. Here he and other new men to arrive in country were then put through some more training in order to prepare them for the environment. (10:33) �           He had 3 stripes when he arrived in Korea and he had 4 after finishing his first year there. (10:48) This advance in rank was seen to be very quick. (11:04) While in Korea, the men lived in tents. Leaders had nicer tents. However, the common soldier had a worn tent that often needed to be sewed and was difficult to set up. (11:20) He thought the weather in Korea was similar to Michigan’s climate. (11:50) He did not write very many letters home. Every month he would write 1 letter home to his mother. (12:05) He never drank. (12:28) He was raised with heavy influence in the Bible. (12:44) While in Korea his job was to prepare men for a procedure called “Seek and Search.” This is when several men were sent out to see if they could locate the enemy and deliver the information back to officers. (13:24) He had this job for about 1.5 years. (14:22) Because he was young, often times he did not receive the respect he deserved by other high ranking men. (14:50) When he received money he spent it on keeping is uniform clean or sent it home to his mother. When it got there she put it in a drawer. (15:30) Home life after Korean conflict (16:00)        When he got out of Korea he met his wife Barbara at a basketball game. (16:50) He attended college and graduated in less than a year from U.C.L.A. (17:50) After he graduated in his first year, his second year he taught. (18:04) Because Gordon had a car, Barbra asked if he could driver her home, and that’s how they met. (19:18) He and his wife had 2 sons, Mike and Mark. (19:29) His son Mike is a preacher and a contractor in Oklahoma. (19:37) When his son preached about his father saying his faith was never broken. (20:29) Time in POW camp (20:40)         While in Korea he was captured and was kept in a POW camp. (20:53) He accredits himself, not prayer, to getting him through the experience. (21:05) He knew what he had to do to get out was behave. He also mingled with the guards who could speak English. (21:12) The guards would beat prisoners and would often torture men to interrogate them. (21:51) When captured it was necessary to remove one’s rank. The guards however knew he was of high rank and because of this he was often beaten. (22:15) He and some other soldiers he was with in the camp were there for 18 days. After that they were turned loose. (23:10) After this experience he was sent back to his unit. He wasn’t discharged after being in the POW camp. (23:30) The men were told during training to act dumb if they were captured. (24:40) �  While leaving the camp he realized that something, maybe his hip, was broken while he was in the camp. He still has some trouble walking on it. (25:16) On his right hand he is missing one of his fingers. The skin on his right hand was cut off and all the fingers on his right hand are now unable to move. (26:16) Thoughts on service (28:15)              Over all he believes that his military experience was a positive force in his life. (28:28) He believed that his military experience helped him learn a lot, including the importance of things such as the first aid he learned in the Boy Scouts. (28:36) Over all he was proud to have served his country. (29:00) After he was discharged (approx 1953) he tried to join veterans groups however they wouldn’t take him due to the condition of his hands. (29:10) He has resided in the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans since January of 2011. (29:30) While there he was interviewed for 2 books. (30:00) He doesn’t like living there but he thinks it’s the best place he’s ever been. (30:28) In December of 2010 his mental conditions led others to encourage Gordon to move into a home. (30:54) He plans on bringing his cars up to the home. (31:22) When he was 20, Mark, Gordon’s son, was killed. (33:16) He was assaulted by 2 men over and argument. (33:48) His son Mike stayed with him for 8 months before he was moved into a home. (34:28) He believed that his military experience was the best things that have happened to him. (35:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LantzG1251V Title A name given to the resource Lantz, Gordon (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lantz, Gordon Description An account of the resource Gordon Lantz was born in Leslie, Michigan, in 1930. Gordon enlisted in the Michigan National Guard as a teenager, and was later called up to serve in the Army in Korea. He talks about being in Korea as a very young sergeant, and about being captured and held prisoner by the Chinese for eighteen days before being released. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Moore, Deb (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-09-09 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7c3d4984ff65a54e4d926da1375e7487.mp4 4d20a8f8ac5dcbac10b8eeff1b901d29 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4f45c6ee3e0fb80351545983f761020c.pdf c4f751c4651f4c1b1041e1a1a72e5551 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW JOE LANGE Born: Grand Rapids, Michigan Resides: Grand Rapids, Michigan Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, January 13, 2012 Interviewer: Mr. Lange, can you start with some background on yourself? To begin with, where and when were you born? I was born on October 9, 1947, right here in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I was born at St. Mary‘s Hospital. Interviewer: Did you grow up in Grand Rapids? All my life in Grand Rapids, except for my service time. Interviewer: What did your family do for a living while you were growing up? My father worked for Owen-Ames-Kimball Co. as a yardman, loading and unloading trucks, and later for Salhaney Uptown Cleaners, and then as the store manager for the St. Vincent DePaul Society for twenty years. My mother worked for thirty years for General Motors at the inland plant on Alpine and retired through the UAW. Interviewer: How many kids were in your family? I come from a family of three boys. I‘m the oldest, my brother is a dentist in Sparta, Dr. John Lange, 22 months younger, and then a brother eleven years younger, Jeff Lange, who deceased seven years ago, and worked for General Motors and then Bosch after that. 1:08 Interviewer: Did you graduate from high school? 1 �I graduated from Catholic Central in 1965 and went on to Aquinas Collage on a financial aid scholarship and majored in biology. I had a grade point of 4.0 my freshman year. My wife graduated in 1965, Mary Ann Boric, from Catholic Central as well. She started out in banking at Central Bank as a seventeen-year-old high school graduate, and has been in banking ever since. She just retired this January, and is still working part time at Founders Bank and Trust, a lengthy history. Interviewer: When did you get married? We got married in December of 1967. The Vietnam War was going on at full bore and I recognized that was a great opportunity. Aquinas College had a thirty-day break between semesters and it seemed to fit, and we went ahead and got married. 2:02 Interviewer: Did you then complete your college education? No I did not, and shortly before getting married I hired in at Heckman Biscuit on 28th Street and Madison, ostensibly to work my way through school. The financial aid scholarship I had been offered as residual family income, and being what it was didn‘t allow for repeating that scholarship, and I knew the next year my brother would be becoming a freshman. I actually wrote them and asked if the scholarship was available could I see him have it? I found out that working full time, even though it was second shift, did not allow for a science major to keep up with your credit hours, so I fell behind. I had fifteen credit hours my fall term, and dropped to twelve my next semester, and that‘s when the draft took place. I could not get the rest of my credits in before the draft in July of 1968. 3:13 Interviewer: They didn’t regard you as a full time student essentially? 2 �Yes, I lost my student deferment, was married, and my wife was expecting our first son, Tom. She was due in the fall, and that did not preclude them from you from drafting you at that time. Apparently I didn‘t have enough physical defects to fail and I was classified 1A. Interviewer: When did you get the draft notice? I got the draft notice in June or May I can‘t recall which. My draft number was 255, which was pretty high and I felt pretty secure. The reason that didn‘t help was that General Westmoreland had gone to the Secretary of State [Defense] McNamara, who presented to President Johnson the need for another hundred thousand troops after the sixty-eight Tet offensive, and I was one of those hundred thousand that got drafted. 4:04 Interviewer: So, they were reaching farther and farther down into the pool in terms of the lottery numbers and so forth. The interesting part of that, historically, had to do with the area you were in. If you lived in the city of New York, they had a lot larger pool, and with a smaller city like Grand Rapids, they had less to choose from, so having lost my student deferment put me right up as 1A. Probably under other conditions you wouldn‘t have drafted a married person with a child. They had to meet their quota. Interviewer: Right, because a little earlier there had been limits and restrictions on that kind of thing. Yes Interviewer: But, you were coming late enough, so those were gone away by then. 3 �I think they were only drafting up to the age of twenty-eight, and they pushed that out to the age of thirty-three, they were taking so many. More on that later and the fellows that were drafted with me. Interviewer: Take us through the induction process. You get the letter, and do you go for a physical, or what goes on? Well, I got the letter and protested to the draft board that my wife was expecting and that it should be at least postponed until she had the child, and they postponed it until August 13th, but the decision was that was irrelevant and they were going to draft me anyway. 5:08 So, August 13th I, I should back up, my son was born nearly two months early, coincidently, and my wife had my son on the 27th of July and on August 13th I went to the induction center, which was the old city hall downtown, the old building, which I believe either the building is gone, or it‘s the current empty building that had been the art museum. We went down there by bus and from there we went to Fort Wayne in Detroit, and went through a physical process. I have no central vision in my right eye, so they looked up the records that decide what to do. The vision in my right eye was 40/400 and they thought maybe they could defer me there, but 40/600 was the requirement, so I passed the vision test. They kept me there and sent me from there to Fort Knox overnight 6:00 Interviewer: Now, when you were at the induction center, you hear stories about people and the various ways they are trying to get them selves declared unfit or 4F, whether it was drinking too much sugar or trying other things. No, I never tried anything like that Interviewer: Did you see any of that? 4 �I wasn‘t aware of any of that either, but I can‘t say that it didn‘t happen. You were with a smaller group. The put you up in a hotel downtown overnight, you got there late that day, and got up the next morning and took the physical. I am entirely sure that some people did those things, but I didn‘t witness it. Interviewer: You didn’t see it. So, where did they send you then for basic training? From there they sent me to Fort Knox, Kentucky. There were a number of basic training centers, but that was the closest one to Grand Rapids and a large quantity of people were going down there. You have to remember, when you induct that many in a short period of time, it‘s makeshift. They actually opened up new barracks for that training company. The training company was B93, and they had us go into a school building at the end of basic training and do chants. 7:02 All different companies against each other, and ―B93, the best one to be‖, was our chant. It was to pump you up for pride of ―esprit de corps‖ we‘ll call it. Interviewer: How easy or hard was it for you to adjust to life in boot camp? Let me share this story with you. I‘m a pretty big guy now, I was six foot and I weighed about 220 lbs. when I went in. I had gotten heavier with the hours I worked, I worked fifty hours a week, schooling and regular meals. The military tends to trim you down when you‘re a big guy and beef you up when you‘re not. The never restricted my food at all, but there was enough exercise that they saw to it that you lost weight. The drill sergeant, Staff Sergeant Williams, took me aside after the process and said, he called me ―big man‖, and he said, ―you‘re the one I had my eye on and cutting out of basic because you were not in the best shape, and you proved me wrong‖. 8:08 I got down from 220 to 170 in basic training by initiatives on my own, extra exercises, extra running after the 5 �day to make the one mile run that you were required to do, and then the sergeant was kind enough to help me with extra push ups. In the army a push up is up and down twice for one push up and he had a habit of saying, ‖drop and give me fifty‖, whenever he saw me, although he did make me an assistant squad leader, so I know he liked me. Interviewer: Did they also put a lot of emphasis on military discipline? Absolutely, and it wasn‘t unusual to do a lot of cleaning. When we moved into the building it had been unused, and we cleaned it with hand brushes on our hands and knees repeatedly. I don‘t think you want to draw a comparison with what the Marine Corps did. It was a little different than that, but cleanliness was next to godliness in the military. Let it suffice, we had a person that had a problem with cleanliness, but the sergeant left that up to us to resolve, and we did. 9:08 You may have heard of blanket parties? Well, he got a blanket party, and he got cleaned up with brushes and lye soap, so no more problem with that guy. Interviewer: How long was basic training while you were there? Basic training I believe was an extended period of time. It was six weeks, I got there in August, we went through September, and went on to advanced training in October. I think they had and eight week program. It was six weeks originally and pushed to eight weeks I believe, but I may be mistaken. The highlights were a ten-mile march in full pack, you had to do that, and then daily physical training, and then a PT test at the end. Interviewer: You were kind of filling out the basic part. Did you do the advanced training at the same place? No, at the end of basic training, if you passed, and there were only five people out of a company of two hundred that didn‘t, and there were various reasons for that. They 6 �usually got run through a second—I don‘t know what they call it, but they ran them back through a second training. Some was illness related and some was inability to keep up. 10:16 They assigned you your duty, I know the top guy in our company was George Washburn, and he got infantry at Fort Benning, Georgia. They based that on your final PT test, your performance overall and your skill levels. I think they also looked at the fact that I was married with a child and said, ―We‘re not putting you into combat infantry‖. I and, I think, as many as ten or fourteen guys were sent to Fort Bellvoir, Virginia. They selected what types of training based on testing. I tested the weakest in electronics and they made me a generator mechanic. Interviewer: Describe a little bit the facility at Fort Belvoir. Where is it? Fort Bellvoir is in Alexandria, Virginia, just outside of Washington D.C. If you went out toward Arlington Cemetery it would be off the highway on the right, beautiful grounds, a beautiful base, if you will. 11:16 It is the engineers school for the entire United States Army on the east coast, and part of the old guard. Washington D.C. is surrounded by military bases all the way around. Quantico, Virginia for the marines, Fort Meade, and I don‘t remember all of them. You‘re surrounded by military bases, and that goes back to early history. The school for engineers is also the OCS school for engineering. They throw up construction bridges of different types, wooden timber, girder, and learn to command in engineering, but our part of that was to learn how to operate a generator, as a 52B10, and we all scored well in that. They moved us on to 52B30, and gave us a second session in how to assemble and disassemble generators, and actually do major repairs. 12:13 We graduated just before Christmas in 1968, and were given order directly to Vietnam from there. We protested that by law they were required to, the Inspector 7 �General's office was required to allow us a fourteen-day leave before departure to a war zone, so we did that. Interviewer: Ok, that was becoming a kind of normal procedure to protest or argue orders? No, they sent us directly to Vietnam before Christmas of 1968, and the twenty-eight of us in my training company went down to the Inspector General's office, I should clarify. We piled into two cars, went down to the office, and said to him, ‖wait a minute, this is not right‖, and it was not a demonstration, it might have been a show of force, but it was certainly passive. We weren‘t trying to attack anyone. We were all saying as a collective group was what the military law says is that you have to give us fourteen days, so they did that. 13:07 I went home for Christmas and left February 14th to Oakland, California. Interviewer: Now prior to the time that you went over to Vietnam, how much did you know about what was going on over there and what you might have to expect? I hadn‘t really focused on the war in Vietnam much, being married, working full time and trying to go to school full time, I certainly had not protested in any way. I wasn‘t involved in any of that, but I was keenly aware there was a war in Vietnam going on. I had an uncle that served in WWII, so there was a military background in the family. I was very proud of his service. He was in the 105mm Artillery at Leyte, so I have been regaled with stories of his military service, and his nephew was an officer in the Army Reserve or the National Guard, so I have been exposed somewhat to the military. I had gone down after high school to enlist with my friend, Keith Moser, in the Marine Corps. He was eighteen, they took him, and I was seventeen. My mom and dad refused to sign, 8 �and they did not take me. 14:09 I had an interest in being a Marine as a kid growing up, but I was not, say, a hawk type person vs. a dove type person. Interviewer: So what made you interested in enlisting in the Marines at that point? I had always thought that it was important to demonstrate service to the country, and the people in the country, and I always thought that is was important for your own psyche, if you will, if you are going to do that—to do the most difficult part of it. I never looked for the easy way out. You notice in talking about getting drafted, I protested, but I didn‘t continue to push it and it was a difficult decision, but I felt it was my duty, role, and honor to serve my country. I have more opinion now about the war than I did prior to going in and I can explain that later. 15:03 Interviewer: Did you get trained by anybody who had been to Vietnam one way or another? Yes I did, I had Staff Sergeant Williams as my training sergeant. He had had both elbows shot off and he could stand in front in the rest position for hours at the time. He did not tell us good stories about Vietnam, but in generalities, drove us and tried to—he was very good, a strict disciplinarian, a good trainer, had compassion up to a point. If you did what you could he was proud to have you in his unit, and he didn‘t share war stories, although we did ask questions. We had an assistant squad leader who ran one of the other training platoons who was a corporal who had been a door gunner and later a squad leader in Vietnam. 16:03 A very young, couldn‘t have been more than eighteen or twenty himself, but none of the leadership, although they were trying build esprit de corps, really focused on what had happened. We had a Lieutenant, who returned to our training platoon, who had an injury to his right hand from using a magnesium hand 9 �grenade, and he insisted that when you passed him, you would salute him, and part of that was to demonstrate that as hard as it is for his hand to make a salute, he would do that. That was the only other person I know of that had been injured, and he was the only one I knew of at that point. Interviewer: When you were training for the engineers, was there a question as to where you would go, or was the assumption that everybody was going to go to Vietnam? The assumption was, everybody was going to Vietnam, but there was no definitive answer to that. I should explain, and back up. The second training session ended early in December, we went home for our fourteen days leave, back to Fort Belvoir as a holdover until the middle of February. We didn‘t really get our final orders until we came back for the fourteen-day leave. 17:18 There was some question as to when it would be and where you would go. Although I did get to go home in February briefly before going over, we went right from home, right to Oakland. Other guys extended that, they—I won‘t say they were AWOL, but they didn‘t report on time, so that might have been the fact that getting to Oakland was kind of on your own. They didn‘t give you a voucher to pay for your airfare; you had to do that if you went home. They would get you there from the military base, but from your home base you had to do that. Interviewer: So, you get yourself out to Oakland now, it’s February of 1969, now how do they get you then to Vietnam? In Oakland it was a case of you took what gear you were assigned and your personal belongings with you, you were bunked down in a kind of warehouse facility and assigned a cot. 18:21 Then they started grouping people together for duties. I spent twenty-four 10 �straight hours on KP, which was kitchen police, and then was called right off KP to say you‘re leaving now. So, what they were doing was keeping people busy, putting you into a group for a flight to Vietnam. It was the third day, I think actually, now that I think about it that we left. I left with Keith Roelofs, Don Kopareu, and Ted Williams, and Don Schwart from Seattle, and those are the names I can remember. There were a few other people. Interviewer: Did they put you on a military aircraft or a chartered civilian plane? It was a chartered civilian plane, and the plane—we left from Fort Douglas MacArthur Airbase I believe, and they kind of screened you from the crowd because that was in California and there was anti-militarism already at that point. 19:15 They flew us to Hawaii, which was beautiful, I had never seen Hawaii before, and from Hawaii to Guam, which was a military base for the B-52 Bombers, and from Guam directly to Bien Hoa Airbase right outside of Saigon. Interviewer: What was your first impression of Vietnam when you got there? Well, let me explain the flight from Guam. We were on a C-130, a military aircraft, and you‘re in the jump seats, the paratroops would use, with your gear, and as we came over the shoreline we took incoming fire, so we had to circle back out. We landed at Bien Hoa airbase, they dropped the ramp down and you saw a cordon of aluminum caskets about twelve feet high, stacked five high, or six high as I recall. 20:05 They paraded you down that ramp through that cordon. We all noted when we got off that there was a large hole in the wing about that big around, and some smaller bullet holes in the fuselage. I was one of the last to get off, and I asked the guy at the bottom of the ramp if that was incoming fire and he said, ―oh yeah, there, there and there‖, and no one was hurt. The 11 �circled around and took a different route, so you already knew that you were going to get shot at, and seeing all the caskets, a lot of people were dying in Vietnam, so you took it pretty seriously. The heat was oppressive; in the southern part of the country it was very humid and damp. They gave us lectures on behavior, what to watch out for, how to move, they gave us a set of pamphlets, not really flyers, but booklets, part of MacAfee‘s booklet on Vietnam, and an infantryman‘s guide, and a phrases book, which I still have. I know very few phrases, however. 21:05 Interviewer: How much of that orientation turned out to be useful? Quite a bit, and first of all you learned that everyone with you was just as nervous as you were, but it was all for a good cause. Second, it gave you some time before they took you to your holdover company at Bien Hoa, to acclimate a little bit, and thirdly, it set a tenor of seriousness, in what‘s important to do, and there‘s a lot of camaraderie and vibrato as you first arrive. There were a number of people who were draftees and also a number of people who were enlistees, and you tend to see the enlistees looking more for adventure and the draftees looking to do their service, so that kind of explains it, I think. Interviewer: Do you know if there were some people who enlisted to kind of beat the draft? There were some cases of that, and when that happened you saw somebody trying to enlist in the Navy or the Air Force. 22:05 And now that you‘ve mentioned that, I did go to both to the National Guard and the Army Reserve to see if there was any opportunity here, locally to do that, so I wouldn‘t have to leave my family, but there were not opportunities. They were all filled up, so that will give you a little flavor—a lot of people were doing that, yes. 12 �Interviewer: How do you find out what your assignment is? They put you in a holdover company and it took about ten days, and then did a lot of military personnel records, did a lot of sorting, and deciding who was going to go where and to what units. Fortunately for me, the group that I came over with, the names I had mentioned, went to the 4th Infantry Division, 124th Signal Battalion, because they needed generator mechanics, and after about ten days of doing various work duties to keep you busy—just before I left I found out you could walk down the street to one of the mess halls and actually get a square meal. 23:08 I sat down with two older sergeants who welcomed you even as an inductee, have coffee with them and get a better flavor of what was going on from those two guys. We turned in our stateside uniforms and were issued new uniforms during those ten days, stateside fatigues for jungle fatigues, and our field jackets were in the way because in the southern part of Vietnam you didn‘t really need them for anything. They were all loaded up and sent to the highlands where I ended up. You weren‘t given your final gear, like helmets, I‘m sorry, you were given a helmet, you didn‘t get your weapon, or bayonet, or ammo, or anything of that nature until you got to your unit. The decision was made for a small group of us to go to the 4th Division once they had arranged a flight again on a C-130 cargo plane. 24:05 We flew from Bien Hoa to Pleiku airbase, and I thought I had landed in the states when I got there. They had green grass, an outdoor movie theater for Jeeps, a swimming pool in the ground, tarmac airstrips, or concrete airstrips, and a walnut with a brass rail, with an etched glass mirror bar for the enlisted men‘s school. A far cry from where I ended up. Interviewer: That part looked civilized, but did they send you off to a base from there? 13 �From there by bus, they loaded up one fairly large school type bus with grates over the window, which told you right away you were going somewhere dangerous. What gear you had, your duffle bag you took with you, and you bussed from the Pleiku Airbase south of—no, north I believe of the city of Pleiku, through Pleiku to the Camp Enari base, which you would liken it to say Missouri where you have the red clay dust. 25:09 It was a large military compound, housed the entire 4th Division, and all of its units, and you were two weeks there as a holdover. There was a final issuance of your gear, canteen, and everything that didn‘t belong to the company you were going to end up in. A little bit about the hold over company, we were there two weeks or so, it was located along the perimeter where the airstrip was. The airstrip was a PSP airstrip, which is perforated matting, it was intended for helicopters because there was the 1st Cavalry helicopters assigned there to support the 4th Division and it could land at what we call the Caribou. I believe it was a C-100 [C-123], I can‘t remember, a short take off and landing vehicle, airplane, two engine cargo plane. 26:05 They weren‘t assigned there, but they brought in supplies, and troop etc. Interviewer: Now, was your battalion based on Camp Enari or did you go somewhere else? Our battalion was based at Signal Hill on, Camp Enari, which would have been maybe five hundred meters away from the hold over company. They actually marched us there and didn‘t have to truck us. We went to battalion headquarter on top of signal hill, and the motor pool. Motor pools, in the 4th Division at least, were around the outside perimeter. 704th Maintenance, 124th Maintenance, a 155 Artillery Unit, and I don‘t know if that was a 14th or 42nd, I can‘t tell you that. Then the airstrip, and then another 14 �maintenance, possibly the 38th Mechanized Infantry, and so on all around the perimeter of the base camp. 27:03 So, from Signal Hill you went down to the motor pool area towards the airstrip where the various companies—C Company first, C company was one half of the company walk, and they did mechanical maintenance for the vehicles, there were four hundred and fourteen vehicles, including generator trailers, and then B Company ran the generators and did generator maintenance, and then A Company was called the line company and they ran the wires for signal communication, and the communication conex trucks. They were like a shipping container on the back of a truck and had radio signal communications in it. They were again A, B, and C Company, and there was also a detachment that did photography and another unit, I can‘t remember what they called it, it was attached, that did surveillance, and I always thought it was spy work, but they tried, for the whole division, what the photographs meant, and things of that nature. 28:12 Interviewer: What specific unit were you in and what were your duties? Originally I was assigned to C Company, I‘m trying to remember if I‘m getting that right, I might have been assigned to B Company as a generator mechanic. There were a number of us that came over there as generator mechanics. The maintenance motor pool was run by a warrant officer, a CW002, a command warrant officer 2, which is equal to about a Captain, and he interviewed each of us in turn, and talked to us as a group, and interviewed us each in turn, and mentioned that he didn‘t need any more generator mechanics, and did anybody know how to work on trucks, and I threw my hand up. I had done maintenance with my uncle I told you about that was in the artillery, and worked for Bryant Chevrolet and later C Bell. 29:03 I had spent a lot of time because I was in the 15 �area of Catholic Central, after school, working with him, and learned mechanics. So, they put me on the job training as a truck mechanic. Then they interviewed two of us, I think it was Keith Roelofs and myself, asking if we could type. I typed about sixty words a minute and he did about thirty, so they drafted me to do all the paper work, and I became the maintenance motor pool clerk, truck mechanic, and inspection NCO, I guess you would call it. They promoted me from PFC, and everyone that went into Vietnam was ranked PFC or higher. Nobody came into the country, in the army, lower than PFC. We all arrived as PFC‘s, even if we were from Private E-2, too. Private E-2 is a single stripe and PFC is a single stripe with a rocker. Very shortly after that Don, Keith, and myself were given specialty support class promotions, which was significant and made a big pay increase. Combat pay at that time was fifty dollars additional a month, so as a Spec. 4 I was getting about $458.00 dollars a month, and sent all of it home for my wife and child. 30:10 Interviewer: Now, did you spend most of your entire tour in that same place? Most of it, and I‘m trying to think back at the sequence. Initially, the first few weeks, we were allowed to acclimate. We were given duties like KP; pardon my language, but shit burning detail, guard duty, we could volunteer for reaction teams if we were attacked or if they wanted a group to volunteer to support you could do that, so after about the first month they started working us into the maintenance work in the area, and I did a lot of that. The generator mechanics, my friend Don Kopareu, and Keith Roelofs, both operated generators, and it wasn‘t unusual for them to go out to a forward firebase. Every forward firebase had to have somebody run the generators. 31:05 There were usually two generators. You ran one so many hours, cycle the other one on, and shut it off 16 �and did maintenance on it, and that was the work Don, Keith and the rest of the generator mechanics did. Because I could type, they kept me closer to the base, but I was assigned to the Montagnard village. Everyone did at least two weeks, and some six or more at the Montagnard village that we were responsible for. Let me explain that. The Montagnard tribes were like the American Indian in the Central Highlands. The Vietnamese did not like them. They would come and take their young men and force them to work with the VC and the NVA. They were brave, but they were primitive, and they were more into farming and gathering, and hunting, much like the American Indian. They took a group of three different tribes. They weren‘t necessarily all cohesive, put them together in a village, we had three Montagnard villages, and the names escape me now, but I can look that up I‘m sure. 32:08 We had one that was assigned to the 124th Signal Battalion, and other units had other villages they were assigned to. We had a team there that did security for them, most of the time you had to escort them to the creeks to draw water because the VC, the Vietnamese would snipe them, shoot them, and we determined that it would be a lot safer to dig them an artesian well, so we did that, and in my photographs there‘s one picture of an artesian well. They had a big celebration for that. Another event, as an aside, and this happened while I was there, one of the guys—we used a ¾ ton truck to transport food etc that we needed, equipment to the village, generators to bring back and take them, and fuel. The water buffalo had decided to station himself on one of the span bridges they use to cross a creek, and wouldn‘t move. 33:02 They ran into him with a ¾ ton truck, but he just bounced off, so the driver got out and shot the water buffalo, it‘s the only thing he could do, you couldn‘t get him to move. There was a big concern about doing that because that was their tractor, you know, so the chief in the 17 �village got three hundred dollars, and a tin roof for his hut, and they cooked the water buffalo and had a big party. [?} which is a rice wine they made, the only rice wine they made was drunk at that time, at the celebration. Interviewer: Now, did the Montagnards have things they could do to support themselves? They’re in this village and they’re kind of surrounded by the sea. Well we helped them set up farming because they were more gatherers and hunters than that. They were very gifted and I wish Don were here to share with you, because he was a teacher in Minnesota, and actually put together a slide presentation for his students showing that they would take a piece of bamboo, 18 inches to 3 feet long, and hollow it out leaving one end closed, and then, and then over an open fire, cook the Water Buffalo, or their meat, whatever that was going to be, stuff it in that tube, and then take rubber plant leaves, close the other end, and heat it in the fire. 34:22 It was just like sealing it with rubber, and they actually had small buildings on stilts that they would store the meat in, and it would last quite a while, so they were pretty much self sufficient in that regard. The same thing with grain, they had pots that they would store their grain in. We just facilitated their self-protection, and provided them with weapons, usually outdated. We didn‘t give them brand new M-16‘s, but 12 gauge shotguns, and what was left of WWII equipment, and they would scout for the infantry, and then protect their village as best they could. It became easier to protect their village when you could group them together with more than one tribe in one area. 35:05 They would make pottery and sell that, and things of that nature. Interviewer: What kind of operations was the division conducting while you were there? Were they kind of going out into the countryside looking for trouble? 18 �Yes, but you have to remember by the time I got there in 1969 the 4th Division had gone over by boat in 1965, and Camp Enari was a new base they had built. A captain, who had been the first to die, was who they named it after, Captain Enari, and prior to that they had been occupying areas chiefly handled by the 101st Airborne, they were supplanted in that. It had been decided, for example, the 69th Armor, which were the tanks from Fort Knox, Kentucky, actually, could not operate in the delta region where they were originally assigned, I believe, to the 7th or 9th Infantry Division. We swapped units, and we took the 35th Infantry, the 14th Artillery, I believe, the 42nd Artillery, and 69th Armor to the highlands, so they made their own bas eventually there. 36:13 By the time I got there it was pretty well established. The barracks were already built, there were concrete floors, incandescent lights, which we replaced with fluorescence when they became available. Captain Hoy was the C Company commander that I first served in, and he had a penchant for wanting a Koi pond, so they actually built a concrete pond in the parade ground area, not that you would hold parades in daylight. It never got filled with water, but it was always a point of humor. He also put fire alarms in the company area for alerts, and that was inverted 105 Howitzer shells painted orange, and wooden walkways. The importance of that was, during monsoon season it was muddy there and very difficult to traverse anything without it. 37:04 Ditches were dug around the individual barracks, and that was to keep the water from washing the buildings away. They would do that during the monsoon season. Part of our duties were to gravel coat a parking lot, when we got there in 1969, and put down prenoprine, which is the same sealant they use on the PSP matting on the airstrip, and then put pea gravel on top of that, so you had an actual substantial area that wouldn‘t wash away. We also took galvanized roofing and made 19 �two by four framework, attaching that, and backfilling that instead of using sandbags for protection around the barracks, so if you had a, mortar round or rocket attack, you had some protection if it came unexpectedly. Interviewer: How much enemy activity was there? I mean how regularly did you get hit with rockets or mortar bombs or whatever? While I was holdover in Bien Hoa they attacked the perimeter, in the night, at least three times during the ten days I was there. 38:09 While I was holdover in Camp Enari, during that two-week span, they attempted to over run the base camp perimeter, and we were mortared and rocketed several times. After moving to C Company, during the first week I was there, they rocketed, Signal Hill was a big target for them, they used one of their 122mm rockets and mortars, and rocketed and mortared the battalion headquarters there and blew up the A Company barracks, and made the national news right after I got there actually. My wife was watching the attack on television and didn‘t know it. Interviewer: When an attack like that came would it just be a few rounds and then nothing, or would it be more intense? Sometimes, during that first year, I believe, an entire NVA battalion attacked the airstrip area in broad daylight, I want to say it could have been nine or ten in the morning, and by that time I was part of a reactionary team, I was actually a rifle squad leader, and we were called out. 39:11 I took my M-16, ammo, a couple grenades, and my flack jacket and helmet. The perimeter was a series of barbed wire in a clearing with some buried explosives and some booby traps, and then a guard tower, if you can envision that, just like you have at prisons now days, with a sandbag bunker around the base, and then two more sandbag bunkers and then another guard tower, all around the base camp. With this 20 �particular attack they used satchel charges, they‘re about a yea square like a canvas bag, and blew up three bunkers, I believe. During the day they were lightly manned by infantry units, two men to a bunker, so there were six men that were disintegrated, and there were no bodies. One guard tower and two small bunkers were blown up and a large area cleared by the NVA to the airfield, airstrip. 40:07 They were after our long-range patrol, snipers, who were bunked in that area, and the helicopters. Don actually has some pictures. Either I didn‘t have my camera at that point or I wasn‘t taking pictures of it, but they blew up a helicopter, they blew up some trucks, and altogether eleven men were killed, six in the bunkers and five in the company area. I ran out, down the perimeter road, on each side is a drainage ditch, so the road doesn‘t wash away, and the last working guard duty area was the signal tower, was the towers and they had an M-60 machine gun in the towers, and other weapons, and I began firing, and at that point began to recognize they were penetrating in a pretty good group, and I turned to look and found I was alone. I started to look for someplace else to go, and I felt somebody grab me out of the drainage ditch and pull me out of the road. 41:06 It was the company sergeant, I won‘t say exactly what he said, but he said, ―Don‘t you want to live to see your wife and son again?‖ Interviewer: Had you been standing up at that point? Yes, but crouched in the drainage ditch, firing. The guy in the signal tower was actually trying to signal like this to quit shooting, he didn‘t want to get blown up, I think. The company sergeant, top sergeant, took my rifle away and put me in the bunker, probably saved my life, so I let it go at that. It was not a heroic act on my part, I thought the whole group of the rifle squad was out there, I didn‘t know I was alone, so that was one of the 21 �few times. It was not unusual to come under fire when you pull guard duty. The 124th Signal Battalion, and other units, provided—I think we had—there were thirteen bunkers on the American side of Dragon Mountain, and different units had different bunkers. The infantry had the ones out at the point; bunker 1, 2, 3 and the other unit rotated the bunkers 4,5,6, and then 7,8,9,10,11,12 and 13 bunkers on the inside. 42:12 The ARVN Army had the other half, they closed the gate at dusk, and locked it, kept the ARVN Army on their own side, and I‘m not really sure if that was for their protection or ours. We manned various bunkers. I remember being in bunker 4, bunker 7, and bunker 13. It wasn‘t unusual to come under fire or even ground attack on occasion. I can remember a case there where bunker 2 and 3 were blown up, probably by B40 rockets or mortar, and I was in bunker 4, and that left a lasting memory. Bunker 13 had a 50caliber machine gun mounted in that one, we came under ground attack, and I actually got to fire the 50caliber gun. I don‘t know if I ever hit anything, it being dark, and that was my memories of that kind of thing. 43:03. Interviewer: One of the sorts of clichés or assumptions about service in Vietnam is, you have the grunts, who were romping in the hills and rice paddies, and then you have the guys in the rear who have a relatively nice life. In Saigon, but in Camp Enari where I was, it was pretty rustic. Interviewer: Where you were, you had—you were coming under fire on a fairly regular basis, there were attacks and things like that, but you were officially in a support position. You were a typist, but you were doing all this stuff too. What that really said was, I did all the maintenance work that had to be done, and I had to do the ordering and typing of parts, which meant more duty, not less duty, but a lot of 22 �times it kept you from having to do kitchen patrol, KP. By the time I had been in Vietnam six months or so, Vietnamsation was taking place and they were actually bringing civilians in to do the laundry, shit burning detail, pardon my language, and the tire repairs, and things of that nature. You were actually trying to occupy them, give them a little bit of money to improve the economy. 44:04 It was a good initiative, but also a dangerous one. We caught one of the papasans that worked in the tire area—at lunch time I—we had a dispatch act, so you could send out trucks and record that and bring them back in, and I volunteered to do that, so the dispatch person could have lunch. While I‘m doing that I noticed this little Vietnamese pacing off the different buildings, and reported that to the company sergeant, top sergeant, and sure enough he was VC, so that sort of thing happened and that‘s why we were attacked as often as we were. A gentleman who was a forward observer in the 42nd Artillery shared with me, at our national reunion meeting, that the reason he volunteered for the fire bases, where they didn‘t get mortared and rocketed like the divisional base camp did, was because we provided a very large, easy to shoot at target, and it wasn‘t unusual every few days to take mortar rounds or rocket rounds. Not necessarily a large scale attack, but harassment. 45:04 I distinctly remember papasan telling me one night after three o‘clock in the morning, ―don‘t be in the barracks tonight‖. How he knew what he knew, I don‘t know, but it was four o‘clock before they actually hit us with mortar rounds. I shared with the rest of the people in the barracks, there were about forty guys in the barracks, and told them, ―don‘t be in the barracks tonight‖, and we were in the bunker. 23 �Interviewer: All right, as far as you could tell, in the area where you were, what sort of relationship or dynamic existed between the VC up there in the hills and the villagers, and the people in the community? There was a case of constant—you have to remember the reason the 4th Division was placed where they were was to be not too far off Hoe Chi Minh trail in Cambodia, so there were a lot of incursions of former NVA groups through the 4th Division area. You can read the history for yourself, I‘ve done that, and we were there to stop that or at least curtail it. The NVA would, in conjunction with the VC, coerce support, rice, for food, whatever they could get from the locals, either voluntarily or by threat, and there was some physical violence that happened there. 46:16 I can‘t say I witnessed it directly a lot of that, but I saw some results of that and the effects of it. The VC and NVA treated their own people worse than anything the Americans could have done to them. We were out there to kind of support them and help them, and the VC and NVA weren‘t necessarily that kind. They were actually executing teachers, leaders and things of that nature. I know that to be a fact. Not much publicity along those lines in the press, but that‘s what really happened. Our vulnerability was that our—some of our forward firebases were over run. A couple of incidences, Plei Duc incident, top sergeant MacInerney, in 1966 I believe, shortly after he had arrived, or 1965, walked into a battalion-sized NVA compound in the jungle looking for two short range patrol or long range patrol people that had disappeared, and his company was pretty well wiped out, and that‘s why he won the Congressional Medal of Honor. 47:24 Then the 12/22 Infantry, that was the 8th Infantry. The 12/22 infantry had the 12th of May incident that took place, and a number of infantrymen were killed. Again by a large size force from the North, 24 �and VC support. Both of those I believe predate the 1968 Tet offensive, so it was dangerous from the beginning and got worse later and never really went away. While we‘re speaking of that, the Tet Offensive everyone remembers in 1968 because of the scope and scale of it. I would like to point out that January, February and March of 1969 was a Tet Offensive and that‘s the attack I mentioned I was involved in later in the month. 48:11 Then in 1970 after the division moved to An Khe we had another attack. I had turned in my weapon, it‘s now March and I‘m getting ready to go home, I think only a day or two left to go, I had no weapon and the VC or NVA, I have no idea because I didn‘t see them, attacked the perimeter. They came through the dog handling compound passed the 124th Signal Battalion, and headed down toward the airstrip, and my memory says that we hadn‘t had our artillery set up yet, and I don‘t know why this comes to mind, but there was a battle cruiser or ship off the coast that actually fired at the VC base camp. I can remember a large roar that sounded like a freight car going overhead, and later questioned the NCOs about what that noise was, and they said artillery from the ships because ours wasn‘t ready to fire yet. 49:05 It was pretty impressive to be that far away and actually support us. Interviewer: So, you’re in a lot of situations where bases are getting attacked and sometimes, substantial forces doing it. What kind of losses would the enemy suffer in those? Would they take a lot? Yes, numerically I would say they did, and I don‘t think the battalion attack in 1969 that I was talking about was very successful for them. We lost eleven people and they probably lost ten times that. There were several other incidents where they were bold enough to make attacks, and I can‘t say that their entire attacking force was wiped out, but quite 25 �frequently the Americans had the best—actually the Americans won every battle. I can‘t say we didn‘t have units where some were decimated, but usually, even that attack I talked about at Plei Duc, they lost many more than we did. It was a case of trying to fight a defensive war instead of an offensive war for us. We had the military might, if you will. 50:09 It wasn‘t unusual to see jet fighters called in, and it wasn‘t unusual to see Cobra gunships called in. I can remember one base camp attack where a Loach helicopter was shot down, he was, and these guys were brave, I‘m telling you I have never seen anything like it. He was drawing enemy fire from the gorge at the base of Dragon Mountain right outside the perimeter opposite 124th Signal Battalion motor pool, flying low at dusk and into the evening to draw that fire. Then two helicopter Cobra gunships were high up, and when he pulled up they would come down and do their rocket and mini-gun attacks on the enemy. I don‘t know how many flights he made over that area, but at one point he got shot down and burst into flame. It‘s just like in the movies, when a helicopter goes down they burst into flame. 51:11 Unlike the Hollywood penchant for showing cars bursting into flame, helicopters do that right now. One of the Cobra gunships continued to call him to get out, get out, get out, and they kept saying that, but his speaker was evidently not on because they were communicating back and forth, and we could hear it. He wasn‘t going to be getting out, of course, the entire helicopter, including him, was engulfed in flames. The Cobra gunship landed, and for some reason we could hear the pilot and the co-pilot talking back and forth. The pilot got out, disconnected his whatever he had, helmet, and ran into the fire and tried to drag the pilot of the Loach out. The co-pilot got out of the Cobra gunship, knocked the pilot of the gunship to the ground, put out the flames, and put him back in the helicopter and flew 26 �away. There was no saving this man. 52:16 That was a memory that came back to me a few years ago that I had forgotten about, and that was a thing I witnessed that I‘ve never seen such bravery, concern, and care from one unit to another as to what went on. It demonstrates the bravery these people had. They later brought in a Spooky gunship; they were low flying like a DC-4 [C-47] and pelted the area with minigun fire, and put an end to the attack. It was pretty impressive to watch that close up. Interviewer: Did you witness any B-52 strikes? Not personal and up close. I happened to be in divisional base camp, and it felt like an earthquake when they were running a B-52 strike ten clicks I believe, ten thousand meters away, and the ground shook. Then on a patrol reactionary sweep, something of that nature, we walked to an area that looked like the moon; it was all craters made from five hundred pounders (from) B-52 raids. 53:05 Again, that was to force the North into negotiations, I believe in Geneva. Interviewer: Paris That‘s right, Paris, so that‘s what that was about. You have to remember we were in Vietnam when they were doing all those negotiations, and we didn‘t know what was going on. Interviewer: Did you have a kind of daily routine while you were there on that base? Absolutely, let me share that with you as well, and then we‘ll get into the specifics of what I did towards the end of my tour. They could not stand daylight formations; they did have a company parade area outside the company headquarters. At 4:00 o‘clock in the morning you got up for reveille, and usually one guy would answer for five or six. 27 �We didn‘t always all get up, but they wanted to be able to account for the soldiers, of course, that were there. You got up at 4:00 o‘clock, went back to your barracks, the mess hall opened around 7:00 o‘clock, by 8:00 o‘clock you had to be done eating and heading back up for duty. 54:05 Usually you showered in the evening, so you would get up and get dressed, go for breakfast if you are in the base camp, for mess at sometime between 7:00 and 8:00 o‘clock, and be up at the motor pool by 8:00. You worked until lunch time, sometime between 11:00 and 12:00, went down to the mess hall to eat, went back to the barracks if you chose not to, we didn‘t always eat meals in the mess hall. It was not unusual to have your own food, take a break and write a letter home, or just relax because you‘re pretty tired. Back up to the motor pool by noon or 1:00 o‘clock and work on vehicles or whatever generators had to be repaired. Sending trucks out, bringing them in, teaching guys how to keep the trucks moving and in condition, repair damaged vehicles, it was not unusual for them to get shot up or rocketed, and again break at 5:00 or 6:00 o‘clock for evening chow or whatever. 55:05 Then go back to the motor pool sometimes until midnight, and continue with whatever projects had to be done. If you had generators ready to send out to a firebase or if you had to load up food or support equipment for a firebase you did that. We had some teams, traveling teams, where they take a ¾ ton truck and a trailer, Larry Ball, I believe, or Albert Ball, he was a buck sergeant, and another specialist would go out and take parts out to various firebases, and stay at one base for a couple of days then go to another, come back and re-supply and that sort of thing. At least once a week, sometimes twice a week you pulled guard duty, it was rotated among the eighty-eight men in the motor pool. We had three or four of the bunkers on Dragon Mountain, so that would be three guys to a bunker, I think about 28 �twelve people, so I think you‘re talking some twelve percent of the group. 56:04 Guard duty started at dusk, after chow, you drive up with your rifle, backpack, drinking water, grenades, ammo, helmet, flack jacket, and go up on the truck along with other units people that were going for guard duty. You would be assigned by the staff up there what bunker you had, you would parcel off into groups of three, a lot of times it was Ricardo Montalban, not the actor, a Cuban, several of us, Don and myself. I‘ll tell you a cute story about Ricardo in a minute. Then you decide how you‘re going to do your shifts. As soon as it got dark one guy would do the first three-hour segment probably 7:00 or 8:00 or 9:00 o‘clock, whenever it got dark, for three hours, the next guys would do the next three-hour segment, midnight until 3:00 in the morning, and the last guys did 3:00 until dawn, around 5:00 or 6:00 or whatever. You‘re on duty from 7:00 PM until 7:00 AM, and got the next day off. The nice thing was, they fed you breakfast up there before you went down, you could shower and just kind of relax the next day. 57:09 That happened once minimum, sometimes twice a week. Interviewer: Were attacks usually at night when they would happen? Almost always, although there were several that one I mentioned was in daylight, that was at Pleiku, and the one at An Khe, was also daylight. There were two of those while I was there and I was only there fourteen days. The whole division had moved, getting ready to pull out, everyone left except the 124th Signal Battalion. I left in March of 1970, the division left by December of 1970, we left behind the 10th Cavalry, one of their attached units, and 124th Signal Battalion for support, and they stayed in the area and continued to function. The final part of the division was through and by 1973 they were all gone. 29 �Interviewer: How would you characterize morale in your unit? I would say morale was ok. There wasn‘t a lot of anti-war sentiment, and the main focus was on getting through this ok, and getting home. 58:13 I would say you have to remember what went on during that era 1966-1970, 1975. I distinctly recall in 1966 or 1967 race riots happening in the city of Grand Rapids. There was some racial tension, and there was some racial tension going on in Vietnam as well, by and large that was minimalized. One of my good friends that I served with, Tom Houston from Houston, Texas, was African American, and we partnered up for a lot of our patrols and things of that nature, guard duty on several occasions, and we became good, fast friends. There was some racial tension, we had a sergeant, staff sergeant, that was African American, and was responsible for security at the enlisted men's club, at the company area, it was just a place to get a can of cold beer, and listen to music when you had off duty time. 59:10 He had set up periodically one night during the week, maybe a Friday night or a Saturday night, where African Americans only could use the club, and we had a buck sergeant who took exception to that, and managed to go over there and incite a near riot. He was attacked by a dozen or so African Americans, and the reason I know is I went out in my underwear and my Ho Chi Minh sandals and rescued him from being beaten near to death. He thanked me for that, but I had some negative words for him for being so stupid. The next time this happened I got dressed and went over because by that point I was running the maintenance motor pool and this staff sergeant was reporting to me, and I‘ll explain that in a minute. I went in an ordered a beer, and they weren‘t going to serve me, and I said they had to serve me, and the security guy, this staff sergeant, told them they better give me a beer because he had to report to me. How that came about was 30 �sergeant first class Dryer was our senior NCO, and was called home in January or so in 1970, the warrant officer, Mr. Harvey Currie, CWO2, called me aside and said, ―Lange, you‘re going to run the motor pool‖, and I looked at him kind of funny and said, ―Sir, I‘m a specialist 4th class and you have three staff sergeants, and five buck sergeants, shouldn‘t you be picking one of them?‖ He said, ―I made my decision, you‘re going to run the motor pool‖, and I said, ― Well, they all outrank me‖, and he said, ―Well, cut yourself some orders, and make yourself a sergeant 1st class‖. I never did that, I always wore my spec four shirt, and they all reported to me. The reason he had me do that was, I had some college education, I had some leadership potential apparently, in his mind, and he had me move the motor pool from Pleiku to An Khe, he knew that was coming, and I didn‘t. We packed up all four hundred and fourteen vehicles, trucks and trailers, transported them through a series of convoys through the Mang Yang pass, you may recognize that name. Besides Dien Bien Phu, that‘s the pass where the division of French was defeated. 60:00 Interviewer: We were basically at the beginning of a point where you were talking about actually having to move the division out of Pleiku on to An Kje. What part of the country was An Khe in or how long of a trip was that? 1:43 Pleiku was on the Cambodian boarder, and An Khe was toward the coast. It was a 101st Airborne base. They weren‘t exactly directly across from each other, and if you look on a map it appears they are. The Mang Yang pass is an area eighty-eight miles long. The convoy was a little bid of a circuitous route, but there are only two major highways, one north south, Highway 1, and one east west. I may have misspoken myself on that, and Highway 1 was east west. 31 �Interviewer: No, Highway 1 was north south. That‘s what I though too. The other roads were not always paved, and what was happening was, negotiations were taking place in Paris, the 4th Division, it was decided, was going to be removed from the country, they brought in, in 1965, they were leaving in 1970, they were there about five years, and my unit had to move from Camp Enari because they were turning Camp Enari over to the ARVN Army. Camp Enari stood very near Ho Chi Min Trail, and the idea was for them to defend themselves. 2:43 Again remember tanks could be used in the highlands, and the 69th Armored was the main tank unit in the American army in the Central Highlands, although they had tanks in other units, so our goal was to move our 415 vehicles from Camp Enari through the Mang Yang pass to An Khe. We would put together as many vehicles as we could that made sense, and get permission for them to leave. There was a jump off point where we met at the main highway. You were held up and waited—you got there at five in the morning and qued up so the whole convoy would be ready to move together, and you may come under fire, and we did. They held us up at a point where there was a bridge over a small river. It had a by-pass with an American two lane steel span, and we waited for them to mine sweep and that area was guarded by, I believe the 3/28th Mechanized Infantry. 3:51 They had an APC station there, and it wasn‘t unusual for them to have a barbed wire perimeter on the Mang Yang Pass, with some sandbagged areas, and a generator mechanic running the generators. The APC‘s would go out during daylight, and be in different areas, securing that area of the Mang Yang pass, and then come back to the base, and I‘ve forgotten the names of the bases. There was LZ English, LZ Mary Lou, Blackhawk, I don‘t remember who was at what bases anymore. This particular APC was 32 �there at 5:00 in the morning and I thought it was curious. There was a guy coming out of the top turret, and he just stayed in that position for a long time. Once they finished minesweeping they let the convoy proceed, and when I looked back there was no backside to the APC. There was a small hole where a B-40 rocket hit and there was no bottom half to that guy. 4:42 The convoy was held up at that point, and that put quite a thought into my mind about what we were going to be going through, this was my first convoy. We proceeded through a couple different areas, made some turns, went through some small villages, sometimes you would speed up and be doing nearly fifty miles an hour, and sometimes we would slow down and be crawling. We got into the Mang Yang Pass, and we came under attack, and the whole convoy stopped. To our right, as we were heading to An Khe, it sloped down to a field, and then up to a treeline area across a creek. The fire was coming from that treeline area onto the convoy, so they had us dismount from the vehicles, and lock and load, and be ready with our weapons. We didn‘t have an attack unit in the area, we had escorts. Every so many vehicles would have twin 50 caliber machine guns, quad 60 caliber [.30 caliber M-60s?], and they had welded PSP matting, sandbags and things for convoy escort. We escorted the convoy either with a 1/4 ton Jeep with a 60 [.30] caliber mounted in it, or a ¾ ton truck, or a deuce and a half might have a 60 caliber mounted on the scarf ring. 5:51 But the other vehicles just had two guys to a vehicle, both armed with an M-16. We dismounted and they called two of the fast flyers, F-4 Phantoms, as I recall, and they napalmed the hillside, and that gave us a real idea what that was like. You could actually feel the heat from that far away. Proceeded on to An Khe, took the vehicles in there to the motor pool area at An Khe, which was—they had Hong Kong Mountain in the middle of there base camp, I always 33 �wondered why they do that in the army, and then the 101st Airborne had a jet strip, and the airstrip was next to that, and again the signal battalion motor maintenance was on the outside perimeter. The dog-handling unit, the K-9 unit, was to our right I‘ll say, in the perimeter behind us. 6:44 We would go park the trucks, take of whatever parts we needed for the remaining vehicles, throw them in the ¾ ton truck that we happened to be using, sleep overnight, get breakfast, and take off at 5:00 in the morning and convoy back the other way. I remember doing that over a period of over two to three weeks. Moved all the vehicles, set up the maintenance motor pool, and by then I was down to my last week or two in the army. My friend Don and I processed out together. They kind of turned us loose. Interviewer: How many convoys did you run, do you think? I couldn‘t tell you how long, it was every other day for about three weeks. We took turns at it, Al, spec five, myself; Don did not partake in the convoys. He was out at the Montagnard village, but some of the other NCOs, Rich Fonger, who led out parts went, he set up his parts area, and I remember going back that last time, I think I was in Headquarter 7, in a ¼ ton Jeep, and the warrant officer said to me, ―you have to the Montagnard village and get Don, he doesn‘t want to come back‖. 7:51 He had what we called ―gone Asiatic‘, and he was going to stay with the Montagnard tribe. That is one of the things that I had to do. I had to go out to the Montagnard village and bring him back to base camp, and then move to An Khe, so we could go home. I had forgotten about doing that until he reminded me a couple of years ago when we met after a 4th Division reunion in Illinois. He said, ―Do you remember why you were here with the Montagnard 34 �village?‖ I said, ―no, I don‘t recall‖, and he proceeded to tell be that, ―you came to get me because I didn‘t want to leave‖, and that was very interesting. Interviewer: You don’t here about very many not wanting to leave. Well, it happened, and at An Khe one officer came to me and said, ―I put you in for the Bronze Star, but circumstances are such that we couldn‘t award that to you because there are only so many allowed‖, and somebody else got it. It was a buck sergeant who did a very heroic thing, so I‘m not criticizing that, and I don‘t thing I merited it, either. They gave me an Army Commendation Medal, and he took me aside, and told me that Don and I were both getting those. 8:58 Then he said the battalion commander wanted to meet with me. He wanted me to re-enlist, he offered me a five or six thousand dollar reenlistment bonus, a promotion from specialist 4th class to staff sergeant, that‘s two grades, and an opportunity for officers candidate school if I would re-enlist for three years. So, they sent me out to battalion headquarters, and I went in and talked to the Lieutenant Colonel, Odeorn, and he was also from Michigan, he was from Detroit, and he said to me, ―Didn‘t you volunteer to pull duty on Christmas day, so everybody could be off?‖ I said, ―yeah‖, and he said, ―You did things like that more than once didn‘t you?‖ I said, ―yeah‖, and he said, ―here‘s what we would like to do, Mr. Currie recommended you for promotion, and we would like you to go before the board of review. It will be more of a summary type thing. It isn‘t going to be a formal thing, it‘s just a case of you being interviewed by myself, the S-l, and a few other people.‖ 10:00 I said, ―Sir, I‘m down to my last fourteen days, I would like to go home to my family, I‘m not going to reenlist, and I wish you would offer this opportunity to somebody else‖, and I left. After I went home there was a specialist 4th class that they brought in, and they offered him the 35 �same thing, Mike Grohouch is his name, and I didn‘t know at the time he was in A company, a line company. They brought him in and they offered him a staff sergeant promotion if he would re-enlist and he did re-enlist. They made him staff sergeant, he got the Bronze Star, and he earned. But, he tells me the story that he went ‗Asiatic‖. He‘s over there the remaining three years, 1970 – 1973, and what they did was, they did convoys with the 124th Signal Battalion, provided generator support for the units that remained, worked with the Vietnamese, the ARVNs, and he really didn‘t want to come home either, I guess, at the end of it. 11:00 But, that did happen occasionally, it didn‘t happen with me, I had a family to come back to. Interviewer: You mentioned the Lieutenant Colonel, was that Odierno? Raymond Odierno? Interviewer: Yes No, that‘s the General, it was Odeorn, and I don‘t know his first name anymore. Interviewer: The General, who became important in Iraq, and so forth, actually had 4th Division connections too. Yes, and I could be mistaken, it might have been that he was the same man, I don‘t remember. His name was—we called him Odeorn, Colonel Odeorn. I would be hard pressed to say that it was the same man because that would have been 1970, but it‘s possible, it‘s very possible. It could have been, he was a great guy, and so was Ray Odierno. [Gen. Odierno was born in 1954 and came from New Jersey, so it was not the same guy. My mistake.] Interviewer: Let’s go back to a few other dimensions of the area out there at Camp Enari. What was the Ricardo Montalban story? 36 �Ricardo was a Cuban immigrant, it wasn‘t unusual for people who had a green card and weren‘t citizens to be drafted. 12:08 A friend of mine at work was of Dutch heritage, never was an American citizen, and served in the war in Vietnam at the same time I was there. I don‘t know whether Ricardo was an American citizen or not. He was definitely Cuban and professed to be, and lived in Florida at the time he was drafted. Frequently he, Don, and I would pull guard duty on Dragon Mountain. During the early stages of monsoon season we were on a bunker in the inner area of the mountain that had a walk through level, it wasn‘t a climb-in bunker, it had a doorway, and it had a poncho liner hanging in it. it got to be dark, and the three of us decided we were all going to stay up that whole night and pull guard duty together because we could all sleep the next day, and we were a little more experienced than the new guys. While we were talking we noticed what looked like a dog stick its head into the bunker, we thought trying to get in out of the rain. 13:04 We noticed the curious thing was the tongue darting in and out of that dog‘s mouth, and it was a forked tongue. The dog was eighteen inches off the ground and had a rather pointy square head, fairly large. Ricardo noticed it was probably a reticulated python, and Don and I both opened up on it with M-16s, and all we did was make it angry, and that was not a good idea. Ricardo on the other hand went for his machete, and now it‘s raining out quite hard, and that snake crawled out of the bunker. What it was doing was looking for rats for dinner in the bunker. It probably wouldn‘t have hurt us any, but I didn‘t want to find that out. Ricardo disappeared, with his machete, after the snake, and Don and I waited, and waited, and Rick didn‘t come back right away, and I said, ―you know I think that snake probably got him‖, and he said, ―we're not going to see him until tomorrow‖. Much later that night he came back and he 37 �took his machete and put it away—not questions asked. 13:59 At breakfast the next morning, in his rucksack, was the snakeskin. He had gotten the snake, he took it back to the base camp, buried it in the ground next to the barracks after hanging it out to dry, and got permission to take it home. It was a pretty big snake, and it made a pile about two feet high and eighteen inches wide of snakeskin, and it was quite valuable. That was one of the kind of humorous memories I have. Interviewer: What was monsoon season like while you were out there? I‘m struggling to remember the time of year, and it seem to me it was in the summer. It was probably late summer... August rings a bell. You were kind of confined to your barracks, you opened the door and it was like somebody—like being under Niagara Falls, it wasn‘t rain, it was just a torrential downpour. 14:59 The reason they dug the ravines or ditches around the barracks was, the rain would wash the barracks, concrete and all, away. It wasn‘t unusual to come back, when you did go up to work, to find your footlocker, or any other belonging, floating in the barracks in three inches of water. One night, a spec 4, Carlson from Minnesota, decided he was going to take a shower, so he‘s got his Ho Chi Minh sandals on, his shaving kit, and his towel, and he walked out the door. They had what looked like a pallet, a shipping pallet, with screen tacked to it over the ditch, and sometimes there would be two of them together because the ditch would be big, it would be four feet deep, three and a half feet wide, and the rain would run like a small river through those trenches. He left and the door banged shut, and he never came back. 15:50 It‘s getting quite late at night, maybe midnight, and here comes Carlson back, he‘s kind of a red faced, shorter, stout guy, and he‘s got some MP‘s shirt on, that‘s all he‘s got, no shaving kit, no sandals, nothing, no towel, and he proceeded to tell us a 38 �story. He stepped off onto that bridge and lost his balance, slipped because it was very muddy, and slipped into the drainage ditch and literally washed all the way out of our company area, and base camp, into the dark outside the base camp, and had to walk back, stark naked to the MP post, at night, and try to get back in, and fortunately they didn‘t fire on him. That was a good story. Interviewer: Another piece of the morale picture. You talked a little bit about certain racial issues, and that sort of thing. Was there much drug use on the base? 16:45 Marijuana was fairly available, and I remember being in the main motor pool area inspecting a truck, and during Vietnamsation they would bring the Vietnamese that were working in our 124th Signal Battalion area to the motor pool through the dispatch station. We had one papasan, we always called them, there were five of them that worked on the tires, and he actually seemed to be ordering the others around, he didn‘t really get dirty, he wore the dark sunglasses, had the starched uniform, and a beret, a very leadership like looking person Shortly after the truck arrived a Vietnamese MP Jeep pulled in behind the truck, and they arrested this papasan, and they weren‘t very nice to him. They pushed him around a little bit. They inspected the truck, and they found at least two big blocks of marijuana pressed into what looked like about the size of a patio stone only three or four times wider, hidden in that truck, so he evidently was a drug lord with the Vietnamese group, so he was supplying marijuana. 17:59 It wasn‘t unusual to find that some of the guys would smoke marijuana, maybe did other things, I wasn‘t aware of. I would say, if there were eighty-eight guys in the motor pool team, maybe half smoked marijuana regularly or occasionally, and very few of them used it that regularly. The 39 �other half, and I fall into that category, drank their share of beer. I distinctly remember a flatbed stacked with four pallets of beer slid off, during monsoon season, into the drainage ditch, and couldn‘t get out of the ditch, and left. Word got back to me that the truck was there, not just me, but I remember getting twelve cases of Budweiser, a God sent gift from him. I didn‘t drink them all at once, but I shared liberally with my friends, so there was definitely some marijuana use. 18:52 I will say this about it, the people that I‘ll say served with never used marijuana regularly. If you were going on guard duty you didn‘t get near it. If you were going in the field, you didn‘t want to be around anybody that did it. Tom Houston, that I mentioned earlier that I partnered with, sought me out because he knew I wouldn‘t do anything like that, and I knew he wouldn‘t. I can‘t say it didn‘t happen. I think the usage of marijuana got more prolific after the division left in the late 70‘s. A lot of people were there that didn‘t want to be there, and that was an escape, I think. Certainly part of it was that it was so readily available. I can‘t recall any incidences of it being abused in any way, but I do distinctly remember there were some gatherings where people were funny in a cloud of smoke and the smell from it, and I still remember that smell, and I‘ll let it go at that. 19:50 Interviewer: To what extent was it possible to sort of go off the base? Would people go into Pleiku? I had one pass into Pleiku. Pleiku was held by the VC most of the time and possibly even the NVA, the small village. I had one pass where I went into town, and at some point in 1969 the 4th Division actually liberated the village of Pleiku from the VC, and our commanding General was given the equivalent of the Vietnamese Congressional Metal of Honor. We‘re all allowed to wear that ribbon, but not the metal its self. I served for two 40 �Generals, and they all did six-month tours. Major General Papkey, and Major General Glen D. Walker. Glen D. Walker was the Major General who was in the movie Patton. He was the Major that was promoted over the Colonel, when he didn‘t get his unit across the river, and I am very proud to say I served for both of those gentlemen. They were both excellent leaders, Papkey and Walker. 20:53 I want to point out that Major General Walker's granddaughter was killed in Iraq or Afghanistan, I can‘t remember which, she was a Lieutenant, a Plebe from West Point, a tragic loss for a great man and his family. They didn‘t afford regular passes into town. Escape from Vietnam, for a vacation, if you will, came down to R&Rs. You were allowed one short R&R, and I never had that, or one long R&R. In the September of 1969 I elected to use my long R&Rs and I can‘t remember if it was six days and five nights or five days and six nights, and having been married, I arranged for my wife to meet me in Hawaii, in Honolulu. I flew to Phu Cat, and from Phu Cat to Cam Ranh, I think, and from there, of course, they made sure you were in a decent, clean uniform. 21:58 I flew from there to Hawaii. It seems to me it was a direct flight, but I don‘t remember now. I landed in Hawaii first, at the airport in Honolulu, and I had no idea where to go or what to do, and I was very much looking forward to meeting my wife after being gone that many months. A guy came up to me from a limo and wanted to know if I needed a ride, and I said, ―I‘m sorry sir, but I have thirty dollars I can‘t afford a limo‖, and he said, ―don‘t worry about it, just get in‖. I kind of argued with him because I was afraid of what might happen, I don‘t know, and he said, ―Since you don‘t have much money, I can show you a nice place right off Waikiki Beach where to stay. He drove me to the beach area, and one block off to a hotel. They arranged a reasonable five-day stay. I think it was only seventy-five dollars a day for 41 �downtown Honolulu in 1969, pretty good. 22:51 He gave me his card, and said, ―when your wife arrives, call me and we‘ll go get her‖, and I tried to pay him, and he wouldn‘t take any money. My wife came in later that day, and I called him. He picked me up, took me to the airport, picked my wife up, and offered to take us on a tour of the island, with a picnic lunch, because he singled out one soldier every time they came in, to make that offer to him. Unfortunately I never got to take advantage of that because my warrant officer was stationed at Schofield Barracks, and his wife and two children lived there, and he had arranged the same thing. He gave me a ring to deliver to his daughter, and asked me to contact his wife as soon as I got there; so that very day my wife and I called his wife. I would point out that Mr. Currie was an African American, and he extended this courtesy to every man in our unit that went there regardless of race, religion or creed. His wife promptly came and picked my wife up, took us to dinner, drove us all around the island, and showed us all the major sites. 23:54 With her son and daughter, I presented the ring that Mr. Currie had picked up in Hong Kong for his daughter, and it was probably on e of the nicest things that could have happened. That was a very rare treat, and it‘s the only time I have been to Hawaii. From there, it was very difficult to leave her and go back after five days of normal civilization. I went back and finished my tour between September and March. Interviewer: Over the course of the time you were in Vietnam, did you have any kind of physical or mental problems? Only—there were three events. During the early part of my tour, I had mentioned we spread gravel in the parking lot, I think there‘s an acclimation that took place—they gave us two types of anti-malaria pills, a large orange pill Monday morning, and a small pill 42 �daily, and I took them faithfully. While we were doing this chore, I don‘t know if it was the weather and the hard work, or a touch of something, I passed out. 25:01 They took me back to my bunk, and I don‘t remember anything. I woke up and I was quite hungry, and I asked one of the guys in the barracks if it was time for chow, and he said, ―yes‖. I told them I was quite hungry and they said, ―you ought to be, you‘ve been out of it for three days‖. They took me up to the med center, and they put down on my record, I think, it was fever of unknown origin, and that‘s what they put for malaria anyway, I believe. So, everybody was exposed to it and I don‘t know if it was malaria or not. On another occasion we went on patrol, and we had always worn our soft hats, and carried our helmets, but in this case there was a new captain that was put in charge of this patrol, and he insisted everybody wear their helmets. I can remember getting out on patrol, sitting down in a bamboo stand next to a creek, and again passing out, probably sun stroke. 25:50 That was the end of wearing your helmets in the field after that, and the concern was head injuries from wounds. That‘s nice, but in a hundred degree weather putting a steel helmet on felt like not the brightest thing you could do. Later in the fall we were on a reactionary, we had been rocketed and mortared, and they took us out in a sweep, and around base camp, and we went parallel to the perimeter. I stepped into a sandy area and turned my foot back, and I broke a bone in my foot. I had stepped into one of these wooden booby traps, but I thought it was really strange because there was nothing to it. It was softer wood, it had the lid on it, and it had been carved where it would break, and it broke and nothing happened. One of the guys got down with his bayonet and was fishing around the box, and was going to dig that out for me, and the NCO in charge of the patrol said, ―don‘t do that, a lot of times they know you are going 43 �to do this, and they booby trap it with a mortar round or artillery shell‖. I suspect it was probably a booby-trapped booby trap. 26:54 I went back and they said, ― Well, you have a broken bone in your foot, we can put it in a cast and you‘re eligible for a Purple Heart‖, it was a combat action, there was no combat, and they said, ―you‘ll go home and you‘ll have to finish your tour‖, and I said, ―What‘s the other option?‖ They said, ―we can wrap it, leave your boot on for a couple of weeks, and stay here and finish you r tour‖, and I said, ―Option two, wrap my foot, and put my boot on‖. I stayed there for the rest of my tour, and went home. Interviewer: What kind of an impression did you have of the Vietnamese soldiers, the ARVNs? I didn‘t spend a lot of time working with the ARVNs directly. My experience was, some of them were very professional and very talented. The actual ARVNs that I saw, I was never comfortable around them. I never knew if I could trust them or not. They were forced into military service much like our draft was, but they weren‘t forced for a year, or two, or three years, they were forced pretty much for life. 27:56 Some were Vietnamese, some of them were NVA and VC sympathizers, and some were not. I don‘t have any personal knowledge of that; I can speak to the Vietnamese civilians that I worked with. I mentioned before one papasan said to me, ―tonight don‘t be in the barracks, you‘re going to have a rocket or mortar attack‖. He was very discreet about how he said it, and we got to be friends. I think he cared about me as a person, thought I was a good guy, and wanted to tell me to be careful. I appreciated that, and I never felt he was a NVA or VC sympathizer, I just felt he knew about it. I knew enough about him to find out he was a Buddhist and had two wives, and he showed me pictures of his 44 �children. I didn‘t know the other Vietnamese that well, did not serve directly with the ARVNs, so I can‘t speak to that. My impression of what I saw then is fortified by what I know now. 28:58 The American soldier was very much more professional, willing to put his life on the line, the value system in Vietnam was different, and the reason I say that is an incident that happened on that bus going from the airbase to Camp Enari. We had stopped for some reason, and on the far side—probably to get orders of some kind from a military compound, and on the far side of the road were a bunch of school children in a mission environment playing with something, and I couldn‘t figure out what they were playing in, and later saw that it was some kind of round, I wasn‘t familiar with the blooper, they call the M-79, but they were using a high explosive round, and that has an arming system where you have a ball bearing in it, and it has to travel so far before it explodes. The bus driver explained to us that what they are doing is, that AG round, when you throw it far enough, that ball bearing type round activates it, and whoever picks it up, it goes off. 29:54 They thought that was funny, a funny game to play, and they could be maimed. It‘s a different environment, and I found that hard to comprehend. Not the kind of game you would see going on here, so their value system was different than ours, that‘s all I can say. Interviewer: Another kind of strange thing to ask here, the set of pictures you have a bunch of some Jeep you were rebuilding or whatever, what was the story behind that? There were some pictures I had hoped to bring, some pictures of some of the things that happened. The attack on the airbase where a 3/4-ton truck and a deuce-and-a- half were blown up with satchel charges. Headquarters 7 Jeep, the motor officer, Mr. Currie, was 45 �not authorized in the vehicle, battalion headquarters were, company commanders were, he needed something for transportation, and in the compound area was a Jeep that had fallen off, some how slid off Dragon Mountain, and the frame was twisted. 30:52 I had some mechanical background, having worked with my uncle, and we had a repair shop, and there was a guy in there that could paint. I showed him how to take chains and a 2 ½ -ton truck, and square the frame up on that Jeep. We stripped it down as best we could, and hand sanded it, and I got a hold of some black lacquer form one of the drivers that I found had black lacquer, mixed it with OD paint that we were authorized, and got him to spray paint that Jeep. Then I found out we had some parts, canvas, rigging, seats, and things like that, put that together, the motor, and transmissions, and drive shafts, transaxles, all that was in good shape, and worked. Once we squared that body up, and painted it, and we put all those parts together. They had written off that Jeep, so I put it together and put a spare tire on it. I made a tire cover for the back of it that said, HEADQUARTERS 7, 124th SIGNAL BATTALION, with our hand painted logo, and put it on that Jeep. It earned me a lot of points with the warrant officer. 31:50 Interviewer: I’ll bet, no wonder they wanted to keep you in the army. That might be, and it turned out that the colonel, he had bragging rights with the colonel over that Jeep, the colonel wanted the Jeep, and he told me very strongly, ―the colonel‘s not getting my Jeep‖, and then pretty soon I found out the colonel wanted me for his driver. His driver was leaving, a buck sergeant, was going home, and so Mr. Currie offered me that position, and I said, ―no sir, I‘m staying with you, I‘ll be leaving as well‖, and driving the colonel around is not the kind of thing I want to end up doing. So, that was kind of my history with the story about the headquarters 7 Jeep. The other vehicles 46 �that were so badly damaged we couldn‘t do anything with them, we stripped them for parts. I should explain, in the army you have different echelons, they call it, and they had five echelons of maintenance at that time. The first one just operates it, fuels and lubes it. The second echelon can change major parts. The third echelon can rebuild some parts. Forth and fifth echelons is high electronics and things of that nature. 32:53 We were a second echelon motor pool. We could change parts, and I have a story about that. Spec five came and got me, and said, ―we burnt out an air compressor‖, which powered the brakes on a truck, and we put a new one on, and it burned up right away. We couldn‘t always get all the parts you need, so what we were doing was taking a cardboard off the back of a note pad, and peening it with a hammer between the air compressor and the mounting, unfortunately after we burnt up the second air compressor, and that was our last one, he couldn‘t figure out why they kept burning up, and I happened to take the cardboard off and noticed the inlet port and the outlet port for the lube oil, and I got an awl and punched holes for both of those. We got another air compressor, put it on, and tightened down, and sure enough it worked. So, what that forced us to do was go on a scouting mission. We couldn‘t get any more parts, so the warrant officer said to me, ―You got anymore of that beer left yet?‖ I took a couple of cases of beer, and we got some long range patrol rations packs, and he brought a couple bottles of whiskey, and we went to the 4th Engineers at Camp Schmidt. 34:04 While I‘m sitting there waiting for him to do the negotiations to get spare parts for air compressors, I had my hat pulled down over my eyes, taking a nap, one of the guys that I worked with, Dirk Kramer, was his name, was in the 4th Engineers, and he came up. Eleven thousand miles away, and I ran into one of my best friends from work, in Vietnam during the war, and that‘s a nice 47 �story. That‘s how you got parts; you swapped parts with somebody else because we weren‘t authorized those parts. We actually had tools that weren‘t authorized. We took a fifty-five gallon drum for inspection, it was buried in the ground, with a lid, put all the tools we weren‘t authorized in the drum, waited until after the inspection, and dug it back up again, took the tools out we needed to rebuild parts. Kind of a funny thing how the army worked at that time. Interviewer: What kind of losses did your unit take over the course of time you were there? Because you were getting attacked periodically. 34:57 Actually, of the eighty-eight guys that were in my unit, the cook in A Company was in the building they blew up, he had a small wound, and got a Purple Heart, two assistants were wounded, I never saw a 124th Signal Battalion soldier wounded, however, some of them were at the four firebases, running generators. They were over run on occasion. Some injuries took place there, but I never personally saw anyone there lost. There was one injury I am aware of—when you went on patrol they had a barracks set up outside of the headquarters company area office for debriefing, and one patrol, they came back, you put your rucksacks on your bunks, open them up, lay out your materials, they inspected everything, and that was always expected. 35:54 I was not on the patrol, but I heard a loud bang, and didn‘t know what was going on. Everybody rushed to the barracks to see what was going on, and one of the guys on the patrol had gotten his hands on a 45-caliber pistol, and the story went that he hit the reject and dropped the magazine out of the pistol, and did one of these John Wayne things with the pistol. His best buddy was at the bunk across the way from him, they were horsing around, and he pointed the pistol, said, ―bang your dead‖, pulled the trigger, and forgot there was a round in the chamber. He went to 48 �Japan, first, we called it LBJ, Long Binh Jail, named it after president LBJ. He went first there, and the other guy went to Japan to the hospital. I don‘t know any detail, I don‘t know who it was that had the pistol, and I don‘t know who it was that got shot. I do know that happened. There was one other incident. 36:49 Larry Algers was our wrecker driver, and occasionally some of our guys, he was a specialist fifth class, some of our guys would volunteer to go on to base camp areas for generators that had to be flown out by helicopter, and in the morning, and I believe it was ten o‘clockish, he was going out on a Huey Slick, and we happened to be in the motor pool and noticed the Huey Slick crash, I believe it was a Huey Slick, it could have been a Chinook, I don‘t remember, between our motor pool, and Dragon Mountain. Larry was on that, wrecker we called him, chopper that crashed, and later at chow I found out, I didn‘t know he was on it at the time we saw it go down. It crashed, and he never came back to the unit. He was injured, but not killed. So, there were a couple of injuries that I‘m personally aware of, but no deaths in our unit. I did see some things that happened at the time of the attack on the perimeter there were three bunkers that were blown up, and there were at least two guys in each bunker, by satchel charges. 37:54 They were not from my unit, but certainly they were killed. On Dragon Mountain the infantry unit had bunker one, two, and three, and all three of them were blown up by B-40 rockets. There were three men to a bunker there, and there were nine guys that were killed. I don‘ know their names, I don‘t know the details, but there were no bunkers left after the attack, and no bodies either. I‘m sure that happened, and that‘s as close to death as I got with our unit, and the helicopter I mentioned. Those are the only ones I‘m aware of during my tour. 49 �Interviewer: Are there any other incidents that stand out in your mind, from your time in Vietnam, that you want to add to the record, that you haven’t thrown in here yet? Well, there are some humorous things. I can remember coming back from guard duty, and of course the first thing you want t do is shower because of the dirt blown in your face, or the monsoon rain. During Vietnamsation they had mamasans come in and do your laundry for you, and unfortunately the only water source was the shower, so it was not unusual for the guys coming back from guard duty to shower while the mamasan was doing the laundry. 38:58 You became inured to that, and they would laugh and talk, and giggle among themselves. That was a humorous thing. I can remember also, as we got ready to pull out that they were getting very nervous, the civilians that worked for us, about us pulling out and leaving them behind. One of the young ladies, and I have a picture of her here, and she wanted me to leave a picture I had of my wife and child with her, and I don‘t know why, but I refused to give her the picture, but I gave her the brass picture frame. I can remember one of the Vietnamese asking me to remember him after I left because he knew I was going home, and that when I got home I should send him some money. I never knew how to reach him, and I never sent him any money. I always remember him because he became a good friend. 39:51 I can remember a duty I had one time—they brought in, during Vietnamsation, some of the Montagnards, who would have been a clan, or family, to work, and because I had taken French in college they thought maybe I could communicate with them, so they put me in charge of the work crew that was cutting the grass that was growing up around the perimeter of the motor pool. It was exciting, none of them spoke French, and my French was pretty lame by that 50 �point, but that was an interesting duty. I can remember at An Khe, the K-9 Corps was kitty corner behind us, and one afternoon, or evening, one of the dog handlers went out to feed the dogs, and we heard a gosh awful racket, and I don‘t know if this proved out to be true or not, but the dogs went bananas, bonkers, and later we were told the dogs attacked the handler and killed him, and that was unnerving. 40:51 We had turned our weapons in, Don and I, and were processing out at An Khe by that point, and on two occasions we were attacked through the perimeter. The barbed wire was the only thing between us, and wherever they wanted to come from. I can remember a buck sergeant, I can‘t remember his name, but he was armed with a 45-caliber pistol, standing in the doorway with his pistol drawn, telling us to lie on the ground, because you could see shadows of guys with AK-47s running by. I was very nervous about that, getting down to my last few days, and knowing that 45 was all that was standing between me and getting shot up, and I never got over that either, it was kind of dramatic. Down towards the airstrip from us was an outfit called the 1st of the 10th Buffalo Soldiers. There was a Huey Slick gunship down there, and I would see the door gunner cleaning it, and the interesting thing was, he was about a six foot four guy, and he had this really curly afro, and for a white American that was unusual, and in the army. 42.00 I would wave and say ―hi‖ to him all the time, but I didn‘t know who he was. I got back to work, and I started to notice, after a couple of months, ―that guy over there kind of looks like that guy I was waving to‖, and it turned out it was. When I got drafted he was my replacement at work, and shortly after he was hired in, he got drafted, and we got to be pretty good friends. Unfortunately he had an aneurism and died at twenty-eight years old. Steve Rolgo was his name, and he was from the 1st of the 10th Buffalo Soldiers, so that‘s kind of a sad 51 �story that played out kind of strange. A lot of people were getting drafted at that point, and he survived the whole war as a door gunner, and went home and had an aneurism in his fiancé‘s swimming pool. Sad, a sad moment, a good guy. 42:56 I can‘t think of too many other things to—long days and a lot of hard work, and it wasn‘t unusual to only have four hours of sleep. It wasn‘t unusual to be frustrated with nothing to take your mind off what was going on. Interviewer: Did they bring in entertainment or USO shows? Only on two occasions, and it‘s interesting that you asked that. I have a picture, I believe, in my group, of a Pilipino group at the enlisted mans club, who came in the fall, shortly before I went, or shortly after I came back from R&R. They would not let Americans perform at the 4th Division base camp, it was too risky, but they allowed Pilipino groups to come, and they did the best they could with rock & roll, but it wasn‘t quite the same, but it was entertainment, and we enjoyed it, and they did a professional job of putting on the show. 43:54 When we got to An Khe, again they would not let Americans perform, although there were some ―donut dollies‖, I‘ll call them, that were kind enough to pass out donuts and share coffee with you, and that‘s the first time I saw an American woman after nearly fourteen months, other than my wife on R & R. It was very pleasant to spend time talking with her and having coffee. About two week, or ten days before I left, they brought in an Australian group, and they performed music in a very small building environment, and went from company to company doing that. It was a group of Australian guys, they played modern music, and I can‘t tell you any more about it, it could have been anybody, but it was a nice diversion from what we were going through, and we thoroughly enjoyed that. I can remember a couple of other things 52 �that happened that are interesting. To get up to the barracks from the company area there was a small three-step step, and kind of a tunnel behind the steps. I went up and down the steps all the time rather than climb up and down the bank, and after about the third day of doing that one of the guys grabbed me and said, ―don‘t walk on those steps‖, and I said, ―Why is that?‖ 45:01 He said, ―Because that‘s a Cobra nest behind the steps‖, and I said, ―well thanks for telling me that‖. I got down to my last three days, and they virtually said, ―you are done, do whatever you want‖, and after chow one day I went back and wrote a letter to my wife, and I thought, ―well, I‘ll take a nap‖, and it‘s nine o‘clock in the morning, and a brand new executive officer came through with his riding stick , and the company clerk, or battalion clerk, and I had my bare feet hanging out of the bunk, and he slapped me with the ridding crop, and of course I said some unsavory things to him, and he put me on report. This was after the incident about the possible promotion. I got called up to company headquarters, and the top sergeant said, ―What are you doing here, Lange?‖ I said, ―well, I‘m on report sarge‖, and he said, ―Well, what‘s that all about?‖ I told him what happened, and he said, ―Well, we‘ll see about that‖, and he went in and talked to Lieutenant Colonel Odeorn. 45:56 Pretty soon he left and Colonel Odeorn called me in, and I came to attention, and he said, ―sit down‖, and he said to me, ―Aren‘t you from Grand Rapids?‖ I said, ―yes sir‖, and he said, ―I‘m from Detroit‖, and then we talked about the incidents where I covered for the guys so many times, and the opportunity for promotion. He said, ―Well, why are you here?‖ I said, ―your X-l put me on report sir‖, and he said, ―we‘ll see about that. Tom, get a hold of that guy‖, so they brought the X-l in, and I‘m in the chair, and I go to get up, and he said, ―no, sit right there‖, and he read the Major off, up one side and down the other, and he said, ―Don‘t 53 �you know this man extended his tour, he should have been home already he‘s done an excellent job of service, and that he‘s getting a medal tomorrow on the parade ground, and you put him on report?‘ The guy could have died, and the next day he had to pin a medal on me. He went down the line of ten or twelve guys that were leaving, the guys got good conduct metals, two Bronze Stars, the sergeant I had mentioned earlier, and the rest of us, Don, myself, and Keith, got Army Commendation medals. 46:57 All of us had been in some duress one way or another. He felt we earned them, and I feel we probably did too. He got to me, and had to pin the metal on. He pinned the medal on, but never congratulated me, and walked away, because he got put on report for putting me on report. It kind of justified itself, and it was good to have somebody from Michigan there at that time, and a colonel who respected who you were. Interviewer: Now, you get back to the states, where do you come back to? I came back—we flew, and I can‘t remember, but probably by helicopter, from An Khe Airbase to Cam Ranh Bay. The biggest piece of tarmac I ever saw, and all you saw when you looked off in the distance was the ocean, and sand, and it was really a strange thing to see after being where I was with all the red clay in the jungle. 47:51 We were there overnight, they inspected our gear and took away—I had a crossbow—things they thought I couldn‘t have, my attire, fatigues, they took all that away, and of course they kept them. I didn‘t care. I was going home. We packed our stuff up, and slept overnight at An Khe, or at Cam Ranh, left from Cam Ranh Bay by—it seems to me it was Flying Tiger Airlines. They had taken an airplane and cut the fuselage, and added a section it, so they could hold about two hundred and twenty-five guys in one airplane. They flew us to Japan, I‘m not sure, but in Japan it started with a Y, and they actually let 54 �us go through—they warned us, ―you know you have to behave‖, but we went to the shops and all, in the airport terminal. I bought a Seiko watch for my wife, I remember that, and she still has it. From Japan we flew to Guam, and from Guam to Hawaii again. I don‘t remember spending any time at either of those airbases, or airports. 48:59 From the airport at Hawaii, it seemed we went to Alaska for a short stop over, but I could be wrong, and flew into SeaTac, Tacoma airport, and they put us in their military barracks there, and again, we went through another inspection, and everything. They woke us up at three o‘clock in the morning for breakfast, anything you wanted, steak, eggs, and everything, and that was a nice treat. We got to the airport terminal, after they inspected our baggage they turned us loose, and now you‘re on your own to get your own flight back, which I booked. Unfortunately they had trucked up a busload of Hare Krishnas in their saffron robes, and they proceeded to attack us for being warmongers. We were called ―baby killers‖, and things of that nature. The one that approached me, started in on me, and I asked him a question, ―How old are you?‖ 49:59 He said, ―twenty-four‖, and I said, ―you‘ll be happy to know that when I went in I was only twenty, and that means I couldn‘t vote, and that means, you, as a voting adult, sent me, to Vietnam, and I got separated from my wife and family‖, and I guess he was taken back by that. I just brushed him aside, I didn‘t touch him, I just walked away, and he was still pondering that. The next group proceeded to come over to attack, and he came running up and said, ―not this guy‖. I felt that was justifiable payback, but I‘m here to tell you—when we came home from Vietnam, we were not well received, but I‘m also here to tell you that many nice things happened. I was flying home to visit my family, from Washington D.C. one day, and I always flew military stand-by because you had a guaranteed seat, but there 55 �were occasions when the plane was full. On this one flight, it was North Central, I think, the local airlines, North Central, and a business man, who had first class tickets, waited to make sure I got on the plane. 51:02 He kept asking the flight attendant, ―Are you going to get this young man on the plane? If not, I‘m going to give him my ticket‖, and I was quite embarrassed by that. She said, ―sir, just be calm, just stand there‖, and when no one came they had some first class seats left, and she gave me a first class seat, and I sat with this gentleman all the way back to Grand Rapids. He actually took me to my home from the airport, and I have never forgotten that. There were a couple of incidents like that, and I was surprised at the kindness people offered you. On the other hand, there were a lot of anti-war protesters, and it was very offensive the way they treated you. As I mentioned to you earlier, I came home, let my hair grow out, went back to work and put it all behind me. Part of the therapy I went through when I went to the VA a couple of years ago was ―wear your 4th Division hat in public and see what happens‖. I was on a walk with my wife one day down Five Mile Road by Plainfield, and I had my hat on, and I saw an SUV go by and the gentleman in the SUV was applauding. 52:07 I asked my wife what that was all about, and she said he was applauding your service. Its kind of emotional for me to talk about because what a far cry it was from what happened. I remember two other things I should share. I got off the airplane in Grand Rapids; my dad was there with my son, my mom, my brothers, my wife, and my sister-in-law. I got down off the--It‘s a cliché, and back then you didn‘t have a ramp, you had a real step, and I got down off the step, and kind of got down to the side, kissed the tarmac, and said I was glad to be home. I never saw my dad cry, but he came up to me, put his arm around me, and he had tears in his eyes, it was very emotional for him. He was dying a thousand deaths 56 �all the time I was gone I guess. 52:59 My family had an in the home service with a minister, a full dinner and everything, I mean it was a mass, I‘m Catholic, and they sang, the choir and everything. In the military there tend to be a lot of using the ―F‖ word, and I turned to my brother and asked him to pass me the f—n salt, and that‘s a memory I‘ll never forget. I was trying so hard not to do that, and it got dead silent. The look from my mother was enough to kill me. The minister—the associate pastor is doing the mass, and just to tell you how infused the ―F‖ word was in the military, we were on a patrol one time, and there was a young minister twenty-four or twenty-five on patrol, and he was walking up and talking to different guys and encouraging us, and sharing our hardships with us, and trying to be one of the guys. He‘s starting to go f this and f that like everyone does, he got to me and I put my arm on his shoulder and said, ―you know reverend, we need you out here, no question about it, we need you to be who you are and not one of the guys, so try not to use that word so often. 54:03 It wasn‘t intentional, it was unintentional, it just happens, and if you go anywhere in the military it‘s probably still that way today. One other incident, and then that‘s all I can think of. We had a small apartment, and the back bedroom in that apartment had a space heater in it. About a week to ten days after I got home, that space heater went off. My wife has told this story, she was sharing it with her mother one day, and she said, ‗the bed shook, and I looked and Joe was gone‖, and she leaned over the bed and looked down on the floor, and I‘m on the floor, and she said, ―What are you doing down there?‖ I said, ―Didn‘t you hear that mortar go off?‖ I‘m home for two weeks and it sounded like a mortar going off, and I looked up and realized, ‗well that can‘t be, that‘s my wife up there, that can‘t be a mortar going off‖, so it never leaves you. She told her mother this story while I‘m having 57 �coffee with her mother and father one Saturday morning, and her mothers name is Marie and her fathers name is Gene, and she said, ―Gene, tell him what happened with you‖, and he didn‘t want to talk about it, and she said, ―we‘re out on a walk one day and a car backfired, and he ducks in a doorway. 55:13 He didn‘t think to take me to safety, he ducked in a doorway, and left me standing there‖, and she asked him, ―Why did you do that?‖ He said, ―Didn‘t you hear that mortar go off?‖ He and I share that in common, he‘s a WWII veteran. Interviewer: To look back over the whole thing, how do you think your time in the service wound up affecting you? I will say two things about it, and almost everybody I‘ve talked to, that served, with tell you the same thing. I am proud to have served the people in this country, I‘m proud of my service, I‘m proud of the unit I served with, and of what we did there. I would do it again, if called upon, and I have to tell you, I was twenty years old when I went in, and although I was married, I was very immature, my marriage has lasted at least forty-five years simply because I grew up a lot. Two things—I‘ve always been a little bit street wise, but it taught me to make judgments, it taught me how to lead, and today I‘m a leader for the company I work with, in my role. 56:14 It made me an adult, cognizant, Christian citizen, and it makes me feel, looking back, a bond with all service men, and makes me understand what they‘ve gone through. I can‘t share it with anyone who hasn‘t done it. I have five sons, and I think that‘s a gift. I was spared, and there were occasions when I was at risk, and I believe God had a role in that. There was a role for me to play, I‘m very proud to be an American, and I promise you this, if you ever leave this country and live somewhere else for a while, you‘ll be glad to be here. So, that‘s what it did for 58 �me, it made me appreciate my country, my countrymen, and women, and I‘m very proud of who we are, and how we are, concerned, aware, citizens, world citizens. 57:09 Interviewer: Well, thank you very much for coming in and telling us your story. 59 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LangeJ Title A name given to the resource Lange, Joesph (Interview transcript and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lange, Joesph Description An account of the resource Joe Lange was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan on October 9th, 1947. After graduating high school, Lange married and briefly attended college before getting a full-time job and receiving his draft notice. After receiving his draft noticed, Lange went through basic training at Fort Knox, Kentucky and advanced training at Fort Belvoir, Virginia to be a generator mechanic. Once he completed the training at Fort Belvoir, Lange returned home before deploying to Vietnam to serve for a year in the 124th Signal Battalion of the 4th Infantry Division. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-04-19 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/62fb14c995ad0e60f1cab3cce5909145.mp4 390a31da20c7dfe2fe3dd73226f8e320 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6fb58910a682f9926acc14bec026cc79.pdf 0323515700cbf0ce7b200ce954d3514c PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Lawrence “Bill” Lamb (01:02:30) (00:04) Background • (00:04) Bill Lamb lives in Saugatuck, MI. The interviewer is James Smither of Grand Valley State University. • (00:16) Bill was born in South Haven, MI. South Haven is between Saugatuck, Ganges, and Glenn MI. His grandparents were from the area. In 1937 his family moved to Holland, which is where he attended school. • (00:44) He turned eighteen in 1942. After graduating from high school he went to college. He remembers a “war atmosphere” and many of his friends enlisted. It was in this atmosphere that he decided to enlist. • (01:09) His father was a highway contractor, and he worked all over the state. His father went to MSU, and his mother went to Western Michigan University. She was a teacher for a while. Both of Bill’s brothers were born in Jackson, MI. One of his brothers is still alive, the other passed away from cancer at the age of fifty-seven. • (02:12) His father had a good job during the Depression. He helped build roads in Detroit to help with businesses in the area. • (03:16) Bill did not pay attention to the war while he was in high school. He was a junior and worried mostly about his classes. His history teacher predicted they would all be in the service before the end of the war. His teacher later enlisted in the Navy. • (04:17) Bill heard about the attack on Pearl Harbor while he was in the house, listening to the radio. The attacks changed things for many people in his area. The most pronounced change was the rationing which was implemented shortly afterward. (06:27) Enlistment/Training • (06:27) He decided to enlist after he dropped out of college. He had had a hard time concentrating on his classes with the war going on in a more dramatic way. Many of his friends enlisted. He had initially attended at MSU, but later transferred to Hope College in Holland, MI. • (07:22) He and twenty-four others from Holland went to Chicago by train. He didn’t really understand much of what was going on, and was not informed much of the process. After going to Chicago, they were sent to Fresno and lived in paper shacks which had previously been used for prisoners of the Japanese internment. • (08:33) Newcomers to the base were quarantined for six to eight weeks, because of health concerns. During this period he went through basic training. Next he was sent to Grand Forks, North Dakota. As part of his military training, he attended classes at a college for three months, but he wasn’t sure why although it did help the colleges. He flew an hour or forty-five minutes a day. �(09:35) He flew in a Piper Cub to learn the basics of flying. Next they were shipped to Santa Ana, California. He had classes in airplane identification, meteorology. He was also kept on a constant exercise regimen to stay in shape. • (10:23) He was homesick, but was otherwise fine in the military. During his training, everyone had to take a class on Morse Code, despite the fact that a very small minority (he estimates a tenth of a percent) would ever use it. He failed the test by one word, and worried that he would be flushed out of the Army. Instead, they had him take the class again, which distressed him because his friends would continue on and he would not. • (11:35) He had run races in the Army, and performed well. His Lieutenant had gained some prestige from this and wanted to help him out. He sent him out on a trip to a couple in the area. The couple had two daughters, one of whom was married. Bill returned for three more weekends later, and continued correspondence with them throughout the war and after. He visited them when they came to Battle Creek, and again in California. They have since passed away. • (13:17) In January he was sent to King City, which was north. The base was a civilian airfield. At the time, the Air Corps was not significant enough to have its own bases. He flew on an “Orion,” a PT-22, an open airplane with a sixty to eighty horsepower engine. During this time he flew for about half the day with a group, and took classes the other half of the time. These classes included navigation, meteorology, cross-country, and others. • (14:37) One day he forgot to tighten his seat belt properly, and that was the day the pilot decided to fly the plane upside down. Bill had to use a pedal during the flight, but was unable to reach the pedal because he was falling out his seat. • (15:10) He was in King City for about two months. At the time, he was lower than a PFC, and was not allowed furlough during the nights or weekends. He thinks the Army may have been trying to “break” the recruits to find out what they could or could not handle. He was given frequent psychological interviews, and was among the first group of recruits where this was used. • (16:07) He flew up and down the valley frequently. He was next sent to Mariana, Arizona, about thirty minutes past Tucson. It had blacktop runways. He practiced landings, and solo flights here. The Lieutenants training him were actually military pilots instead of civilians this time. He flew a BT-6, which was a single-engine plane with a six hundred and fifty horsepower engine. It was “a terrific plane” (17:37) Discussion of accidents • (17:37) He was always worried about the planes falling out of the sky. Pilots were frequently killed as a result of errors. One day a trainer asked him if he knew how to get out of an inverted spin. The pilot showed him how to get out of it, but Bill is thankful he never encountered it afterwards. • (18:57) Bill had few opportunities to get off the base, and when he did so do the other ten thousand or so recruits. His mother once visited him in Arizona, which was especially significant because she had been burned in the kitchen recently. • (19:38) The weather at the bases was usually very good, which was probably why the bases were built where they were. He was next sent to Fort Sumner, New Mexico Years later, he visited the base with his wife. The base was still in the • �middle of nowhere. At this time he was flying “twin-breasted Cubs” and he learned to fly multi-engine planes. This time they didn’t use acrobatics as they had earlier. • He had a cross-country overnight trip one night. He was very worried about the gas, as he was low. He was very apprehensive about landing in the dark. He was so worried about the gas level that he forgot to put the wheels down, and the plane was ordered to circle around so he could put them down. He worried about being washed out, but instead was yelled at and given a “slap on the wrist.” • (22:46) Usually, he only heard of accidents, and didn’t see them. The incident with the wheels was the closest he ever came to an accident himself. • (23:15) At the end of his training, he received his wings. He was made a Lieutenant, but not a Flight Officer. Later on, he learned it was because was not old enough. He was only twenty, and had to be twenty-one. He was somewhat hurt, but otherwise is not that big a deal as he received many of the benefits of being an officer without as much responsibly. He had two weeks of leave, but didn’t have much to do as most of the other people were either enlisted in the military, or depressed at being rejected. • (25:25) His father bought a new car, and lent it to him when he was in Advanced Training. He went to Lincoln, Nebraska with some of his Army friends. The base at Lincoln was closed down, and he was ordered to go to Lawrenceville, Indiana. He didn’t have enough gas to get their, so the Army gave him some gas. Another man asked him to drive his wife to Lawrenceville, which he protested because he didn’t think it was proper. The man advised him “I know my wife, I’m not worried about anything.” • (26:52) At the time, there were no motels, so they stayed overnight at houses that were used for a similar purpose. They usually rented two units, and people assumed they were a married couple with marital problems. They arrived in Lawrenceville in the fall of 1944. They didn’t have many navigational aids at the time. • (20:49) Once in Lawrenceville, he was put on a night flight. There was freezing rain during the night which is terrible flying weather. Freezing rain made it hard to work the flaps and aerials. The “boots” could be used to help somewhat, but ice formed over the boots and it was not help. At one point, they had to open the window and scrape ice off the windshield with a screwdriver. That night, the woman’s husband was killed in an accident. (29:15) Active Duty • (29:15) He left Lawrenceville in December, and was sent to Bear Field, Indiana. Next he went by train to Camp Kilmer in New Jersey. He boarded the Aquitania, a British ship. They set out without an escort. On the ship, there were twelve men to a room. It was so crowded they had to take turns getting into bed. They had two meals a day on the ship. They arriveded in Firth of Clyde, Scotland. • (30:34) Next they took a train to a small village outside London. The pilots were to be replacements. During this time, the Battle of the Bulge was raging in Germany. Eisenhower and his staff decided to attempt a glider invasion. Each glider was to have two pilots, in case on was killed. They used “power pilots” who had been trained on planes, not gliders. �• • • • • • • • (32:17) They were sent to Chartres, France. Five or men were waiting for a plane to pick them up, they plane came in from the 442nd troop transport and called for “Lamb and Lang.” The two of them were sent to St .André, a temporary city near Paris. The other men there were more seasoned glider pilots, who had been trained in gliders. (33:33) The men were eager to fly; they were linked with trainers and then flew over to England on supply missions. (34:12) One of the other men volunteered to be a glider pilot, and Bill decided to as well. He had forgotten at the time that he had promised his father, a WWI vet, that he would not volunteer for anything. The glider invasion was to be a huge undertaking, and the British also had gliders. His group was the furthest away from Rhine. The British General Montgomery had set up smoke machines to cover the glider offensive. The Germans were aware of the attack however, and had anti-aircraft guns set up. The smoke was supposed to stay low, and the gliders were to go in at five hundred feet. (36:18) The gliders were supposed to be supplemented by a paratrooper force that would take care of the anti-aircraft guns. The paratroopers managed to eliminate some of the guns, but not all of them. Flying the glider was very rough that day because of the slipstream of one hundred miles of airplanes. Bill’s glider was being used to drop off a jeep and some men. As they crossed the Rhine, Bill looked down and saw flak, but didn’t know it was flak at the time. The smoke went too high, and the glider was at one thousand two hundred feet. (39:05) The glider was attached to the plane by a rope of about five hundred feet. When they released from the plane they had to save the rope so it could be reused. The other man was piloted when another plane released, and their glider was nearly cut in half by the other glider’s rope. He made three left turns for the descent. During the first they saw a C-47 coming out of the smoke, but managed to avoid it. The glider had to take a dive to avoid the plane. The glider fell 180 mph, and they weren’t supposed to go faster than 150 mph, but managed to make a terrific landing near a barn. Once the landed the men in the jeep, which included a colonel, left. (41:37) Bill and some other men were to guard a road. During this period they did not see any German troops, except for dead ones. There were about fifty to one hundred Allied troops gathered in the area. Seven of them were co-pilots, two of which were wounded. All the men were “power pilots” The group was heavily damaged as many of the men had wounds. (43:11) The gliders were made out of canvas and pipe. Overall, they were of shoddy quality. They were used “in a day gone by, like the cavalry.” Bill met a paratrooper who had landed alone, and was proud of killing a German. Bill didn’t understand why the man was proud of killing. (44:50) A German plane flew over them and shot a little, but not much. Later on, Bill saw a GI taking an elderly couple and a four year old captive for the POW camp. They continued to collect Germans, in the hundreds or thousands within the three or four miles from the Rhine. �(46:11) They were helped by ground troops, mostly from the British Army. They continued to capture German soldiers, most of whom had the look of defeat. The Germans were brought to the Rhine where they were taken by other forces. • (46:54) The Germans were of all ages. They knew they had been beaten and looked like it. Many of them had had a rough time. The British had a nearby camp where Bill slept in a tent. He had hot British tea for the first time, and liked it very much despite not liking tea. • (47:58) He was picked up on a plane the next day, and from then on flew gas and other supplies to Patton. They landed in captured German airfields. They followed Patton all over Europe, bringing supplies to him and bringing back wounded Americans and rescued POWs. • (49:02) They once took a professor from the Netherlands. The man gave Bill the Star of David the Nazis had forced him to wear. Bill later gave it to Seymour and Stu Padnos, and it is now located in the Grand Rapids Temple. They also took a GI who had a “beautiful mustache” along with them. The GI had been a POW for eighteen months. Bill took a picture of him. They also took Russians who had been German prisoners closer to Russia despite their protests. The Russians did not want to return because they would probably be shot as “collaborators.” (51:15) Occupation • (51:15) Some of the American troops went home and were trained to invade Japan. The war ended before these men had to go to Japan. He was sent to Munich until May 1946, they set up airline in the area and he flew passengers. He did not fly very often. • (52:16) He did not talk to the Germans, because they were still seen as “the enemy.” Additionally, he did not speak German. He went to Harr, Germany and they put up a compound, which included a hospital. He spent much of his time playing ping pong. They had an officer’s building in the compound. During the Christmas of 1945 he went to Garmsich, which had hosted the 1936 Olympics. • (53:43) While in Munich, he heard beautiful string music. He and other Americans came across a church, and looked inside. They were greeted by angry stares of elderly Germans, who probably assumed they had bombed the area. • (54:30) He enjoyed Europe, and once went to Berlin. He had an interesting experience that taught him not to judge people. He had to fly to Vienna with another man who would be evaluating his performance. They stayed the night in Vienna, and some of the other men wanted to drink and carouse. He went with them but didn’t drink. He went to bed early. Later on, the other two men came back with some women who spent the night. The next morning the two women had stolen everything from them, but nothing from Bill. • (56:57) The war ended in May, and he was in Munich. His father had been near Munich during the end of WWI. (57:33) Post-War • (57:33) He was sent to Camp McCoy, in Wisconsin. When he came home he arrived at Camp Kilmer. He came home by train. He spent the summer playing golf with a new set of clubs his father had purchased for him. • (58:06) He decided to go back to Hope College, and later met a woman and married her. He has been married for sixty years. He worked construction with • �• • • his father and brothers until 1983 when his brother died, and the business was split up. (58:53) He once met Jackie Coogan while training in Lawrenceville. Jackie was flying a glider, and he and some other men were invited to fly with him. The glider was a very smooth ride that time. (01:00:13) He would not recommend gliders to anyone. (01:00:26) He was glad to have served his country, and was glad of the experience, but he is also glad he finished it. The military is plagued with some problems, bureaucratic inefficiency, mistakes, and incompetent superiors can all be problematic. The war also taught him about people, and he saw Europe. �------ STATION cZ;H lr. O R "'1lII1"'~ ENGINE!!:" P F. n.s~ . C LA SS AIRCRAJFT MODG. 1'. IRCRAfT S En UIl. No. -PRiNT Pu\INLY­ NAME-ASN.-GRADE-ORGANIZATION FLIGHT DATA � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LambL Title A name given to the resource Lamb Jr., Lawrence (Bill) (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lamb Jr., Lawrence (Bill) Description An account of the resource Bill Lamb served in the Army Air Corps during World War II. He served as a glider pilot, despite being trained on powered airplanes, in the European theater during the later part of World War II. He participated in the Rhine crossing in 1945, and later on he flew supplies to Patton and transported wounded men and rescued POWs. Flight report appended to outline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army. Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-05-11 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/363406e063f7d09d3614e0d25fc30b97.mp4 0135f29d4915e6be5464fd7e5bf7cb48 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/69d6ce8ca29a61e5260e8a05b5cdf276.pdf 641d347cd1c7cf334ffd2643344a20be PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project William Lalley (01:14:12) (00:20) Background Information • • • • • • William was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1922 and later moved to Lowell, Michigan where he attended high school William’s father had owned a haberdashery shop, but died when William was only six months old His mother took him and his three other siblings to Lowell to live with their grandparents William graduated from high school in 1940 and began going to school at the University of Michigan He later transferred to Michigan State University and signed up for an Army Air Corps program in 1942 that was supposed to defer service until he graduated The government was short on troops and he was pulled out for the Air Corps before graduating in 1943 (3:45) Training • William went through pre-flight training at the San Antonio Aviation Cadet Center in Texas • They were testing for aptitude, reflexes, depth perception, and also basic drilling with physical exercises • William was in Texas for 5 months and was then classified for pilot training • He began basic flight training in a small town in Texas working with PT-19s and a civilian instructor • After basic flight training William was assigned to work with heavy bombers (12:05) Advanced Flight Training • William had already been training for about a year before he went through advanced flight training • He graduated and got his wings, was commissioned, and went home on furlough • He was then assigned to a flight crew that had already been working together • They were training in B-17s and William worked as the co-pilot in Oklahoma �• In April of 1944 they received their orders to leave the US (15:35) Britain • They took a troop transport ship across the ocean and traveled with a convoy and air escort • They experienced nice weather and had good food on the ship, though it was completely crowded • The ship landed in Britain and they traveled to a small town near Northampton • They were part of the replacement crew because there was a very high turnover when they arrived • William was part of a bomb group stationed near the an airfield and they received orders for their first mission within a month after arrival (19:15) Berlin Mission • William and his crew were like a “filler” on the mission; they were to fly behind newer planes and more experienced crews in an old beat up plane • Berlin was very heavily defended and everyone was nervous about the mission • The air was filled with flak, the background was black, and it was almost as through you could walk across air on all the flak • William’s plane got hit and they had to turn around after dropping their bombs • They were quickly losing altitude and decided to abort • William landed near a plane that was just passing, which may have helped to cover him from the enemy; he later found out that the rest of his crew was captured • He detached his chute, buried it, and began running through the woods in his bright blue suit • William wandered through the woods for a long time through the night without a light or compass • He eventually found an abandoned house and slept in a haystack and ate raw eggs in the morning (28:10) Dutch Underground �• William left the house and wondered through a small town in which many people were watching him, but not saying a thing • He was finally approached by a nice couple that told him they could help him • He stayed outside their house in the woods and was later picked up by another man on a bike • They left on the bike and went to a different house in another small town, where they stayed for a few months, hiding with other soldiers and Jewish hideaways (36:00) Moving through the Netherlands • William had arrived in the house in April of 1944 and left that August • He left with a British officer and continued to move on and avoid Germans • They were eventually caught by some Germans, who at first pretended to just be asking them some questions, but continued to intensify their interrogation • William went through further interrogation for about a week and was then sent to a prison camp in Germany (43:50) Prison Camp • William was sent to a prison camp near Berlin; they traveled in box cars from WWI that could fit 70 men each, jam packed, for two days • There were many wounded men and disfigured in the camp • It was specifically for officers and surrounded by barb wire, light towers, and gun emplacements • Before his arrival about 50 Canadians had tried to escape and they were all executed • Camp was boring and strict; there was barely any food to eat and some men had to work outside in fields (52:35) Switching Camps • They found out that Russians were nearing and could actually hear the artillery through the woods • They left in the middle of the night and were told they were being moved to evade the Russians • They marched for 48 hours through cold woods and many men died on the way �• They arrived in a small town and stayed for a while in a pottery factory that was very warm and felt great • They then traveled to Nuremburg where most of the Germans were in pretty bad shape and they could tell they did not have time to keep track of POWs • They were staying in another prison camp where they were separated from the British and Russians (59:50) Rescue from Camp • The prisoners were told that they had to move again and there were about 15,000 of them marching in the road • They arrived at yet another camp and the prisoners caught on to the Germans’ low spirits and could see that they were now losing the war • They began to hear artillery from far away and could eventually see tanks coming • The camp was liberated in April and all the men were evacuated onto planes within 3 days • William stayed in France or one week, where many of the other prisoners ate too much food and died • He took a troop ship back to New York and was sent to a hospital in Chicago for check up (1:07:20) Back in Michigan • William had some time on leave and was not sure if he would get called back up for service • He signed up for the reserves, but eventually found that he no longer had time for it • William received his degree in business administration for Michigan State University, got married, and eventually began working for Donnelly in Michigan until he retired � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LalleyW Title A name given to the resource Lalley, William (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lalley, William Description An account of the resource William Lalley was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1922. While in college in 1942 he signed up for an Army Air Corps program that was supposed to defer his service until he graduated, but he was pulled out of school early in 1943. He then trained as a B-17 pilot, was sent to England as a replacement, and was shot down on his first mission. With the aid of the Dutch resistance, William was able to evade the Germans for about 4 months before being captured. William was sent to three different prison camps while in Germany before the prisoners were finally liberated and he was sent home. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army. Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Prisoners of war Prisoners of war--Germany Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-10-30 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4ae3abcbb67ff4c52a3828fd9f8bdbbd.mp4 8d6e2ffe1e48cec71af3039d49fc9be7 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/80bf6895566f78208752ecec8a8d95a0.pdf 17a39576f6b57aef31539e454c063103 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Vietnam War Danny Lake Interview Total Time: (38:56) Sergeant Danny Lake  (00:25) Mr. Lake was in the Army o Father was in the Korean War  (00:35) Enlisted because in the lottery system, he was number three  (00:45) Was 19 years old at the time, says he wasn’t worried at the time because he was athletic, young, felt invincible  (1:00) As a child, Mr. Lake says that he always felt he would be in a war one day To Vietnam  (1:25) Remembers flying into Da Nang o Caskets with flags over them o Realized that he and his group were replacements of those that had died  (2:10) Recalls a Cajun man that he befriended o “He was the strongest guy I ever met” Deployments  (2:54) Remembers a tail rotor of the helicopter being chopped off to stabilize it o “Like riding a tilt-a-whirl” o Broke his collarbone when he jumped out of the plane but had to keep moving o Ended up being picked up by another helicopter  (4:07) Remembers seeing his name posted under “Missing In Action”  (4:40) Says that when you are hungry and lost in the jungle, eating bugs, etc. is not a big deal o This is how he survived  (4:57) Shot down in a helicopter three times  (5:07) The pilot was shot in once instance o As they were flying, Mr. Lake was sitting in the back o Someone asked what road it was o Mr. Lake put his gun up to the pilot’s head and told him to get off the road – dangerous because the enemy could spot them o They started taking fire after this – no armor in the helicopter �      o Pilot was hit in the head  The guys in the back thought Mr. Lake shot him at first o Mr. Lake broke the glass of the helicopter so he could see the instruments (6:34) Flying over the jungle is fast and low (6:57) Remembers going into a village o VC was there before and most people in the village were dead o They had to burn what huts were left and pile the dead bodies on top o Remembers a dead woman sitting up in the fire (8:25) Saved a lot of money by the time he was done with the service o Bought a really nice car when he got back o Drove it very fast at night when he couldn’t sleep because of the memories from his time in Vietnam (9:38) Towards the end of Mr. Lake’s second tour, another group was supposed to be taken over o “The South Vietnamese didn’t care” (10:40) One night when he was asleep, he heard the sentry scream and cutting the wires o “I went berserk!” o Thought he may have been fighting on the wrong side o Crawled out, and saw that a NVA guy shot at him o Led to a firefight o Mr. Lake was behind enemy lines (12:25) One reason he reenlisted was “Who will do this job?” o Was 22 years old when he reenlisted o Remembers the age difference – 22 is much different from 18 President Ford  (14:05) Remembers on Veteran’s Day Mr. Lake got a letter o Was invited to meet the president o President said, “Are you coming to the golf outing?” o Ended up going to the golf counting o Had a good impression of Gerry Ford Cambodia  (16:20) Was afraid of being court martialed  (16:30) When they flew into Cambodia, they found a big stockpile of weapons o Sent helicopters back o Hid in the brush to kill the guys that were coming to get the weapons o They found weapons but didn’t take them �  o Shot guys before they could get the weapons (17:28) Mr. Lake got “chewed out”, but not court martialed like he feared (17:43) He was in trouble because he and his unit were supposed to take the weapons and come back in the helicopters Not Invincible Anymore  (18:07) The first day in the bush was very scary o Took a lot of fire o Remember seeing a guy getting blown up, tried to save/help him; the guy was running on his leg stumps o Was told to run away, it was very hard to do so Purple Hearts  (19:39) Mr. Lake received three of them  (20:08) Recalls getting shot o Didn’t realize it at first, felt a small burn but it wasn’t horribly painful o Also got a small wound on his hand from diving on the ground with his weapon  (20:40) Mr. Lake didn’t think it was fair that he received the same award as a guy who lost his leg  (20:51) Got shot in the leg o This was during patrol  (22:14) Mr. Lake said he and his team took pride in extractions o Picked up guys that had been shot down o Remembers picking up some famous guys  (24:00) Mr. Lake was also a door gunner in the helicopter o This was something he enjoyed First Platoon  (26:00) Remembers a young man asking if he could go to Hawaii o Had a bad feeling about the upcoming mission o The man was killed  (26:30) o Remembers a “short timer” trying to be his friend o But it wasn’t a good idea because they weren’t there too long  (27:21) Latrine duty wasn’t something everyone liked to do  (27:43) Mr. Lake said that out of four of his cousins that went o Vietnam, two lived o A third came back as well, but was very damaged when he came back and didn’t live long �    (28:44) Mr. Lake said that he never judged whether or not the war was wasted (28:50) One of his cousins sorted mail in Da Nang o This is the one that survived (30:48) Mr. Lake noticed some men using drugs in Vietnam o Tried not to judge because some guys needed to do that to get through the day (31:13) Left Vietnam in spring of 1973 Mission Impossible: The Way Home  (32:08) Remembers that his grandmother wrote letters o Receiving letters had a very positive effect  (32:50) Remembers getting to Travis Air Force Base and stuffing his uniform in a wastebasket in the men’s room o Didn’t want people to know because of all of the protesting  (33:10) It was hard to readjust to civilian life  (33:24) Everything seemed different after being gone a few years  (34:40) Remembers being at a gathering for veterans o Lots of WWII guys there Life is Tough  (35:35) Waiting for a kidney transplant at the time of the video Caledonia  (36:40) Went here for high school o Was a football player and a wrestler  (36:55) Moved in that area around 6th grade  (37:52) Remembers moving around a lot as a kid � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LakeD0484V Title A name given to the resource Lake, Danny (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lake, Danny Description An account of the resource Danny Lake is from Caledonia, Michigan. He served as a U.S. Army sergeant in the Vietnam War. Many of his missions were on helicopters, and he was a door gunner. After finishing his first tour in Vietnam, Mr. Lake reenlisted. He also had a mission in Cambodia. Mr. Lake was awarded three Purple Hearts. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McClain, Madison (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-05-31 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/588e52bea85822e36b9d05d5f09de124.pdf 5489e16a2116f1cbaa6bd27c1f6b8030 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Robert Kuhn (22:19) Background Information (00:04)         Born June 9th 1934 in Grand Rapids Michigan. (00:05) Reached rank of Master Sergeant in the U.S. Air Force. (00:15) His step father was superintendent of Maintenance for a light medals corporation. His mother worked for Amway. (00:45) He had a brother who was killed in the Air Force. Robert also had a half brother and half sister. (1:25) He attended Creston High School and played football, baseball, and track. (1:38) Robert also liked hunting and fishing. (2:21) While his brother was in the Air Force and home on leave, he was killed in an automobile accident. (2:45) Robert enlisted in the Air Force with his friend who was to be drafted. (3:20) Training (3:40)      He attended Hanson Air Force Base in Ney York and then to flight training in Texas. (3:46) After completing flight school, Robert was examined to determine the type of air craft he was best suited to fly. (4:06) He had no trouble adjusting to military life. (4:23) Robert was married for most of his service. The men were very social with each there and he had a lot of friends. (5:10) Robert was married July 17th 1954. (5:38) Service (5:57)         He served at K55 in Hoson Korea. In the winter the area was very cold. (6:03) Robert lived in a tent during his time at K55. (6:25) While flying, Robert could see fights playing out on the ground. He himself never saw actual combat. (6:45) His wife had a baby girl while Robert was in Korea. His brother also was killed during this time. (7:05) Prior to his first tour of duty, Robert was sent to Korea on temporary duty. He was then sent back to California then Montana where he met his wife. He was then sent back to Korea on a second tour. (7:44) While in Korea it was not recommended the men leave the base. (8:35) Robert worked selling tires, as a manger or a gestation, and as a manger in a super store after he was out of the service(9:55) Robert spent approx. 18 months in Germany after serving in Korea. Then he was given orders to be sent to Vietnam. (10:35) �Service in Vietnam (10:40)           In Vietnam he flew C4 gunships. A typical mission lasted seven and a half hours. At least one plane was airborne at all time. (11:34) Robert was stationed in Saigon. The men would fly out of another base for brief periods if other units had men on R&R. (13:20) Robert’s unit did not lose any crew members during his time in Vietnam. He and his crew was, however, shot down. (14:16) When the C4 was being shot down, the position was radioed in. the crew was picked up by the Army. (14:34) The base at Saigon rocketed attacked weekly. (15:20) The men on base could tell if they were going to be rocketed on a particular night because many would not show up for work. (15:51) The heat was unbearable while serving in Vietnam. (16:25) Robert was aware of the anti-war moments occurring in the U.S. (16:55) When Robert returned home he was sent to Right Patterson Air Force Base where he served until his retirement. He returned for Vietnam in Jun of 1969. (17:37) Robert was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. (18:34) Life after Service (19:00)     Every so often Robert will have a flashback or night terror pertaining to his service. (18:55) Robert has never been back to Vietnam or Korea however he has toured the battle grounds of Europe. (19:33) Robert’s family was helpful in helping him readjust to home life. (20:20) Despite having opportunities to join veteran’s organization, Robert does not belong to any. (21:53) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KuhnR1197V Title A name given to the resource Kuhn, Robert (Interview outline), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kuhn, Robert Description An account of the resource Robert Kuhn, born in 1934 in Grand Rapids Michigan, served in the U.S. Air Force between 1954 and 1974. He trained as a pilot and did two tours in Korea. He was later sent to Vietnam, where he flew AC-47 ground support aircraft, and was shot down once. After returning from Vietnam in 1969, he completed his 20 years at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bueckman, Greg (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Air Force Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-05-22 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/26d3c20dac47c6c5070ce96cb26513fe.m4v 9dd53964cebc6661f67f5e62d658ecf1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1dc3cf0252b06ef539372b9acfa447c2.pdf ac5a802d39681575815057f99818af1d PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project World War II Wilbert Koetje Interview Length: (01:09:40:00) Pre-enlistment / Training (00:00:25:00)  Born in Marion, Michigan in 1922 on his family’s farm (00:00:25:00)  Growing up, he worked on the farm, then at a lumberyard (00:00:41:00) o He did not work in any factory, although he did work at a paper-mill in Kalamazoo, Michigan for about a month before he injured his leg and had to go to the hospital (00:01:13:00)  While he was in the hospital, Koetje decided to sign up for the Navy (00:01:47:00) o Germany had started the conflict but Koetje was not bitter about that; he was bitter when the military got involved with the Japanese (00:01:57:00)  Koetje stayed in school until the eighth grade; he started high school but never finished it (00:02:23:00) o He was supposed to have received a good education but he does not know how much good it did for him (00:02:57:00)  There were two children in his family, Koetje and his brother, which was big enough for his parents (00:03:07:00) o His parents did not marry until after they were thirty years old, so they did not as many kids as the neighbors did (00:03:17:00) o Koetje’s brother worked at a pipe plant and also knew that he would never farm (00:03:34:00)  Koetje started working when he was fourteen years old (00:03:57:00) o He had an uncle who worked at the paper mill in Kalamazoo, who Koetje got along well, so Koetje and went and asked the uncle for a job (00:04:07:00) o Before working at the paper mill, he worked at a small machine shop in Holland, Michigan (00:04:40:00) o He had an aunt who lived near Holland and Koetje lived there and a cousin who was the same age and he lived with him (00:05:04:00)  He learned to drive “before he was supposed to”; he was ten or twelve years old and he put his family’s car into the garage, but he did not stop (00:05:40:00) o He ended up knocking over a fountain and some other items (00:06:13:00) o His mother and father both drove and at the time, they owned a Model T (00:06:26:00)  When Pearl Harbor happened, Koetje and a friend were in McBain and they did not find out about the attack until night because news traveled slow (00:07:00:00) o Koetje ended up getting in a fight because he was teed off and fired up; he found out after he left the fight that his nose was skinned, so Koetje went back, trying to find the man that he had fought (00:07:20:00)  It was roughly a year and a half after Pearl Harbor that Koetje tried to enlist (00:08:13:00) �    o When he originally tired to enlist, the military would not take him and they never told him why (00:08:29:00) o They told him to just wait for the draft, which he did (00:08:46:00) He was finally drafted in 1943 (00:09:01:00) o After being drafted, Koetje went to Kalamazoo so that the military could put him in the proper branch (00:09:24:00) o He had preference for where he wanted to go and when they asked him if he wanted to join the Navy, Koetje said that he would love it (00:09:37:00)  He liked the Navy because his mother was a sailor, so he was part of a sailing family; he knew knots and stuff like that (00:09:55:00) o One of the first things that they wrote on his information was “not PO material” (not Petty Officer material), although Koetje did not know what that meant at the time (00:10:11:00) From Kalamazoo, he went to Chicago and the Great Lakes Naval Training area (00:10:37:00) o There were two men at the training area that Koetje previously knew, although he did not care much for them (00:10:49:00) o While he was in Chicago, Koetje had fleas infest his crotch and he was laid-up for a period; the Navy forced him to shave and clean up (00:11:38:00) o Because he was laid up, Koetje never saw the two men he knew again; he ended up joining a different group for training (00:12:11:00) Boot camp was very little marching, mainly because he did not have to march much in the Navy (00:12:37:00) o They did not teach him how to tie knots (00:13:01:00) o The men did receive a little bit of weapons training; Koetje had to carry a gun, although it was a dummy (00:13:07:00) o The men also did physical training “to get in shape”; Koetje believes that he was in pretty good shape when he got to boot camp, but not in as good a shape as what the Navy asked for (00:13:41:00) o The instructors placed an emphasis on discipline, which was not as easy to learn because Koetje had a head of his own (00:13:59:00)  However, Koetje does not recall getting in too much trouble (00:14:22:00) After spending about four weeks in Chicago for boot camp, Koetje went to Indianapolis for radio school (00:14:38:00) o Even though he had “not PO material” all over his record, the Navy sent him to radio school anyway, where they were going to teach him how to be a radio operator (00:15:09:00) o However, that did not work, so he went to Norfolk, Virginia (00:15:16:00) U.S.S. Davison / U.S.S. McDermott (00:15:44:00)  Koetje was not in Norfolk for long because he went aboard ship; he does not remember the name of the ship, but his records say the U.S.S. Davison, a destroyer (00:15:44:00) o While aboard the Davison, Koetje ended up going to North Africa (00:16:57:00) o The ship itself was a tin-can destroyer and when he went aboard, it sailed to Bizerte in Tunisia (00:17:05:00) � o o o o o o o o o The Davison was about three hundred feet in length and brand new (00:17:51:00) While aboard Davison, Koetje was a regular seaman; he never really had a job; eventually, they decided that he was capable of doing a lot more seamanship, so he was transferred off the ship when it returned to the United States (00:18:28:00) The trip across the Atlantic consisted of trying to dodge submarines and performing escort duty; they had about twenty cargo ships with them going to North Africa and the Davison had to protect them from torpedoes (00:19:46:00)  If the Davison saw a U-boat, then they went between the cargo ships and the torpedoes, which was suspenseful (00:20:09:00) They did encounter some U-boats on the journey and they dropped some depth charges, which Koetje calls “tin cans” (00:20:36:00)  Apart from the depth charges, the Davison also had torpedoes (00:21:01:00)  On both the journey over and the journey back, the Davison used all of its depth charges (00:21:15:00) The Germans did not sink any of the cargo ships and Koetje does not know if they managed to sink any of the U-boats, although they did manage to capture one (00:21:30:00)  The Davison was not actually involved in capturing the submarine, another sailor that Koetje knew was (00:21:41:00)  The sailor was on a destroyer escort that ended up capturing the U-boat and as it turned out, no one but the big shots received credit for the capture (00:21:48:00) On the voyage, sometimes the weather and water was rough and sometimes it was smooth (00:22:32:00) Koetje had not much experience on smaller boats on Lake Michigan, but he never really got sick once he was on the Atlantic (00:22:41:00)  However, the men around him did get sick and it was mostly a chronic seasickness (00:23:04:00) He did get off the Davison in Bizerte and walked around a good sized lake near the city (00:23:35:00)  He found out later that a friend of his, a neighbor, was near the city working on a military base (00:23:55:00)  Also, this was the first time that Koetje saw the P-61 twin-engine fighter plane (00:24:32:00)  The Davison was tied up to some British ships and some of the men got in trouble because they danced with some girls; the girls were French colonists and the Americans fought the British over them (00:25:06:00) The Davison stayed in Bizerte for three or four days then left with a convoy headed back to the United States (00:26:03:00)  When they went back through the Straits of Gibraltar, there were bottlenose dolphins swimming with the ships; this was the first time that Koetje saw fish at the surface (00:26:15:00) Going back, the convoy was attacked by quite a few German U-boats (00:26:42:00) �   The Davison did not do much shooting with the 5 inch gun; they did have the 20 mm guns that they could train down into the water (00:26:48:00) Koetje’s next ship was the U.S.S. McDermott, another destroyer, where he was made into a coxswain, which was the next higher rank (00:27:29:00) o He was a seaman first class on the Davison and a coxswain on the McDermott and then he lost the “not PO material” label (00:27:40:00)  He does not know if it was his ability to tie knots or what but he lost the label (00:28:02:00) o The McDermott eventually went through the Panama Canal to fight the Japanese (00:28:23:00) o After the Panama Canal, the McDermott went to Maui and joined up with a convoy; Koetje went to bed one night and the next morning, there were “three hundred man-o-wars” around the ship (00:28:48:00) o The men did not know where they were going because they Navy did not tell them; they knew that they were going after the Japanese fleet (00:29:17:00)  They were about eight hundred miles from Japan, but they never caught up with the Japanese fleet; the Japanese knew that the Americans were coming and they scooted out as fast as possible (00:29:31:00) o After missing the Japanese, they went back towards Hawaii and went to different places around there (00:29:51:00) o Koetje did not spend long on the McDermoyt; probably three or four months at most (00:30:14:00) o The McDermott spent most of its time in the Central Pacific and around Hawaii (00:30:46:00) After spending time on the McDermott, Koetje went back to San Francisco and saw a friend on his way back (00:31:23:00) S.S. Henry Byrd / U.S.S. Leo (00:33:06:00)  Eventually, he was transferred to the S.S. Henry Byrd, which ended up running aground and sinking (00:33:06:00) o The skipper of the Henry Byrd was a merchant marine officer and he believed that he would receive more money by going in to San Francisco a day later, so the ship waited and ended up running aground (00:33:59:00) o The men were told to abandon ship and there were thirteen hundred sailors aboard the ship (00:34:18:00) o At that time, there were women driving the buses and most of the men did not have a lot of clothes on at the time; Koetje came out with just his white hat and a pair of skivvies (00:34:40:00) o The ship had life rafts but there was so many men on them that water came up over the sides (00:35:09:00) o The Henry Byrd ran aground near they Farallon Islands, but the men were unable to get on the islands; they eventually had to get the life rafts loose and were in the water for an hour and ten minutes (00:35:30:00) o The Coast Guard eventually came out and rescued the men; on shore, they used buses to carry the men to a place to stay (00:36:36:00) �   o Koetje was aboard the Henry Byrd because it was taking him back for his next assignment (00:37:38:00) When he got back, Koetje got a twenty-day survivor leave and he spent time in San Francisco, where he saw some friends, and he saw his wife (00:37:52:00) o Eventually, the Navy put him on a train and before he left, he called his wife and told him to meet him in Chicago; however, the train skirted the city and took Koetje to Newport, Rhode Island (00:38:26:00) o In about three days, he was across the United States (00:39:08:00) At Newport, the Navy put him through a little training then put a crew together to go out to sea (00:39:13:00) o Koetje was supposed to receive some time stateside but he had to pay money the government if he stayed stateside (00:39:32:00) Next, Koetje was assigned to the U.S.S. Leo (00:40:12:00) o The Navy sent him from Newport back to Norfolk and he joined the Leo there (00:40:17:00) o The Leo was a cargo ship, an ATA (00:40:30:00) o The first load that Koetje helped load in Norfolk was beer; the entire back end of the ship was beer but he was warned not to touch any of it (00:40:42:00)  There were two seaman aboard ship from Arkansas who would steal anything; Koetje told them not to touch it and that when they got to Maui, then the two could have some of it (00:41:03:00)  The skipper asked if the two men were going to shore; when Koetje said yes, the skipper asked if they could save him a case (00:41:29:00)  Koetje said “yes” and he ended up with some and the skipper ended up with two; the beer was in military bottles, not tin cans (00:41:40:00)  They could steal the beer from the Marines, but not from their own ship (00:42:12:00) o With the Leo, Koetje went all over the Pacific; there would be about three or four days of sailing then they would stop at another island (00:42:38:00) o Koetje went to Iwo Jima, but that was not on the very first trip (00:43:26:00)  The first invasion that he took part in was Iwo Jima (00:43:43:00)  At the time, the Leo was unloading cargo, mostly fuel for the aircraft; Koetje was not sure how many barrels but they had enough that slings could pick up four barrels at a time (00:43:53:00)  This was about the only time that black people were aboard the ship; they were driving the vehicles that ferried the fuel onto the islands (00:44:37:00)  There were not many planes on the island at the time, because they were bombing the island (00:45:22:00) o Iwo Jima was the first time that the Leo was hit (00:45:34:00)  Ships were overshooting the island with their 40 mm guns and one of the men ended up dying (00:45:48:00)  An officer standing next to Koetje asked what the rounds were, because they could see the rounds coming and Koetje said that someone was shooting at them (00:46:03:00) � o o o o o o o o Koetje said that of course the officer was not scared and when another volley came over the island, he did not see the officer again (00:46:19:00) The closest that Koetje came to the Japanese was when a battlewagon (battleship) was sitting near the islands trying to get the Japanese out of their holes on the island (00:47:07:00)  Whenever the battleship fired, it moved back in the water; after two or three volleys, the ship had to reposition (00:47:50:00) After Iwo Jima, the Leo went to Okinawa (00:48:40:00)  At Okinawa, the ship carried more aircraft gasoline as well as Marines (00:48:51:00)  They unload the Marines into landing craft that the Leo carried; the land craft were mostly LCM and LCVP (00:49:13:00)  The Marines got into the landing craft by climbing down ropes on the side of the Leo (00:49:36:00) While he was at Okinawa, Koetje saw Japanese kamikazes; the Japanese were flying quite a bit of suicide planes (00:49:54:00) During Okinawa, Koetje was a gun captain and held the rank of boatswain (00:50:13:00)  He does not know how he advanced so far in rank; it was unusual for a deckhand with no education to go as far as he did (00:50:28:00)  Koetje was a gun captain for a five inch gun; he also had a 20 mm gun available and a 40 mm gun above him (00:50:52:00)  One time, a Japanese plane came in towards the ship and Koetje believes that he got a direct hit on the plane (00:51:18:00)  Usually, the planes would fly into the shrapnel but this plane came in on a glide and everyone assumed that the pilot was dead (00:52:07:00)  The men received recognition for getting a direct hit on the incoming plane (00:52:35:00) The Leo was never actually hit by kamikazes; they came close but crashed in the water (00:53:06:00)  Koetje got a dent in his helmet but that was about it (00:53:13:00)  He saw kamikazes hit other ships but he does not remember details about that (00:53:26:00) After Okinawa, the Leo ended up towing another ship, the Hinsdale, an APA (a troopship) (00:53:43:00)  The Leo ended up towing the ship over six hundred miles to another island base for repairs (00:54:08:00) Koetje only went to Okinawa once (00:54:32:00) After Okinawa, the Leo went to quite a few other places carrying cargo, including the Philippines (00:54:55:00)  The skipper said that he would like to take a ride on an ankle board, so Koetje had some men from Alabama get an airplane crash boat (00:55:40:00) �     The men ended up stealing the boat from the Air Force and they stowed the boat on the Leo and Koetje would give the skipper periodic rides on the board, which was a flat board with a rope (00:56:08:00)  One day, the skipper did not ask Koetje to take a ride, but another man did and he ended up crashing on some rocks (00:56:51:00) o While the Leo was in the Philippines, Koetje went on shore and he went to most of the places that he was not supposed to, such as going to get liquor (00:50:13:00)  One place had the roof blown completely off but the men still spent a couple of hours there (00:58:08:00) The Leo was loaded for Japan and eighty miles away, preparing to invade the islands, when they received word that the Japanese had surrendered (00:58:33:00) o That was when the men heard about the atomic bomb; the men only heard that something terrible had happened and it was only after the second bomb dropped that the Japanese surrendered (00:59:04:00) The Leo still ended up going to Japan after the surrender (00:59:24:00) o Koetje went on shore while the Leo was in Japan; he and some other men ended up going to some museums and Koetje ended up buying a beautiful wooden boat but when he returned to the Leo, he could not keep it (00:59:50:00) o He did not end up paying much attention to the damage from the Air Corps’ bombing campaign (01:01:03:00) o Koetje did not think too much of the Japanese civilians; they, in turn, gave the Americans anything (01:01:32:00)  However, the civilians were still pretty beat up (01:01:52:00) o The Leo made only one trip to Japan (01:02:20:00) After Japan, the Leo went a lot of the islands in the area; Koetje’s last trip was to Indochina and then to Tsingtao (01:02:39:00) o They were carrying Chinese soldiers back to China (01:03:37:00) o The Chinese soldiers were all men, but some were boys, and about every third on had a gun; they were well behaved on the ship (01:04:06:00) o The Americans told the soldiers to let them know if any of the soldiers were sick and when they got to Tsingtao, they were missing about thirteen or fourteen of the soldiers (01:04:39:00)  If a soldier showed any sickness, then he was thrown overboard (01:05:07:00) o Tsingtao was the first time that the Americans saw Russian-made ships, which were beautifully made; however, the Americans did not have any contact with Russian sailors (01:05:37:00) Following the voyage to Tsingtao, Koetje went back to the United States (01:06:05:00) o He went to Bellingham, Washington but he did not have enough points to get out of the military, so he spent from November until February at the base (01:06:18:00) o Koetje was discharged from the military on February 1st and he went back home to Michigan (01:07:00:00) �Post-Military Life (01:07:16:00)  When he got back to Michigan, the first thing that Koetje did was went to see his girlfriend (01:07:16:00) o Eventually, he took a job working with another man, who Koetje had known before the war, as carpenters (01:07:42:00) o Koetje spent a couple of years in Grand Rapids and married before he moved north and into the country (01:08:15:00)  Joining the Navy was probably worth doing (01:09:01:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KoetjeW Title A name given to the resource Koetje, Wilbert (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Koetje, Wilbert Description An account of the resource Wilbert Koetje was born in Marion, Michigan in 1922. After failing in his first attempt to enlist, he was drafted in 1943 and served in the Navy. Even after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, Koetje waited a year before enlisting. After the military denied his enlistment, Koetje waited for the draft; once drafted, he served in the Navy. He initially served on a destroyer, the USS Davison, on convoy duty in the Atlantic and Mediterranean. He then switched to another destroyer, the USS McDermott, which patrolled out of Hawaii. After several months, he was sent back to California on a transport ship, the SS Henry Byrd, which had to be abandoned off San Francisco. After that, he was assigned as a gun captain aboard a transport ship, the SS Leo, and participated in the campaigns at Iwo Jima and Okinawa, took a load of troops to Japan for the occupation, and helped repatriate Chinese soldiers. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-03-09 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/652f293ce983671966727471eb85c729.pdf 9672da2bedc655390997fc73846423a6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran's History Project General Dave Kim Total Time (00:06:21) Background  Before Dave joined the military, he did security both armed and unarmed in Arizona (00:00:52) ◦ He felt he had to go into the Marine Corps and tried once back in 1983 and was disqualified as a result of a minor injury; he turned down two police department jobs in late 1985/early 1986 and went into the Marine Corps (00:01:19) Marine Corps (00:01:24)  Dave mentioned he lucked out on being sent to Camp Pendleton rather than Camp Lejeune because the sand fleas were terrible there; Camp Pendleton in California has Mt. Mother which is a tough hill to train on (00:01:55) ◦ Dave loved working as a machine gunner and the weaponry that went with it (00:02:40) ▪ Dave occasionally wrote letters to friends and family to keep in touch and that it was different back then without intense internet access (00:03:38) Post Military (00:03:55)  Dave advises those that want to join the military to do it and that it is not supposed to be easy or simple and that it will be hard but it's ultimately worth it (00:5:26) ◦ He did not join the military for a paycheck and advises against joining it for that reason (00:05:36) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KimD1512V Title A name given to the resource Kim, Dave (Interview outline), 2013 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kim, Dave Description An account of the resource Dave Kim joined the military after doing security in Arizona. He tried to enlist in 1983 but was disqualified due to a minor injury and finally was accepted between late 1985 and early 1986. Dave trained at Camp Pendleton in San Diego, California where he trained and worked as a machine gunner. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kim, Devon (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Marine Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-05-16 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e1268df4d0ee605048f198af02c3645a.pdf e826a46e6e0f21eec2bca291c4d06abd PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam John Kendall Total Time – (27:40) Background      He was born on March 6 He achieved the E-4 [E-6?] rank, Staff Sergeant (00:56) He had two brothers while growing up o Grew up in Detroit, Michigan He played tennis as a kid (01:15) Worked as a lifeguard (01:25) Enlistment/Training (01:28)        Enlisted when he was 19 years old (01:33) Only his father served in the military before he did Joined the Air Force to avoid the draft o Felt under pressure to do something (01:57) He spent 8 weeks of training o Remembers it as a terrible experience (02:28) Became an air policemen o Had to go to school to learn how to shoot firearms, drive cars, etc (02:49) The military life was relatively easy to adapt to Was sent to San Antonio, Texas for 8 weeks of training (03:40) o After training, he was sent to the Kincheloe Air Force Base in Sault St. Marie, Michigan for two and a half years Active Duty – (03:48)     Was then sent to Vietnam He was first sent to an Air Force Base in a port city on the South China Sea [Da Nang?] o Enjoyed the first six months until bombing on Vietnam began (04:13) o The last six months, the Vietnamese were attacking them Gained some friendships during the war – some were killed He never had to participate in the bombing (04:42) �            The majority of his missions were to guard planes and keep the Vietcong and North Vietnamese off of the American base (05:00) o They fought back and forth The North Vietnamese would throw satchel charges at the American airplanes He stayed in touch with his family through writing letters (06:10) o Soldiers could send home tapes with voice messages on them (06:35) He found his friends after they were killed (07:26) For recreation, he bought a motorcycle for 35 dollars (08:15) They would go surfing and out for beer for enjoyment They would often go out and visit missionaries to help guard them and their mission (09:21) Was able to befriend many Vietnamese When the war had officially ended in 1975, he was a police chief in Harbor Springs, Michigan (10:16) He believed the war was the worst thing that America has ever done He does not believe that America did not politically commit to fighting the Vietnam War (11:05) Believes that the war should have been fought from the military headquarters in Vietnam, not from Washington D.C. (13:00) After the Service – (14:02)          He returned home in Lansing, Michigan (14:14) o Returned on a United Airlines jet He left Vietnam in April, 1966 (14:35) His family received him very well while others in society did not approve of him being in the war (15:18) It was not difficult for him to adjust to civilian life (16:19) o Considers himself blessed to not have suffered in or after the war Remains in contact with Air Force friends, but not those that he served with in Vietnam Surviving the war helped him realize how good life is back home o Less things bother you after you serve (17:52) The war has made him grateful for what he has in America (19:03) Remembering the difference between his experiences, he remembers that there was a public execution of a young Vietnamese boy in a soccer stadium o The boy was tied to a goal post o He served as a patrol guard outside of the stadium to make sure no Americans went in Considers himself lucky to be alive, but is sad that such bad decisions have been made in America (21:52) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KendallJ1427 Title A name given to the resource Kendall, John (Interview outline), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kendall, John Description An account of the resource John Kendall was born in Detroit, Michigan. To avoid the military draft, John enlisted in the Air Force in the early 1960s. After basic training in San Antonio, Texas, he spent at the Kincheloe Air Force Base in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan, working base security. He went to Vietnam in 1965, and spent his tour providing security around an air base, a job that grew more dangerous during the latter part of his tour. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Pechrul, Steven (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Air Force Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-05-26 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/679c4940410066c7892e5c0d20e94344.pdf 81778ff7da6695a46fe6f144d2934045 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Korean War Vernon Kayser Total Time – (07:50) Background               He was born April 23, 1933 (00:20) He lived on a farm in Caledonia, Michigan (00:35) After high school he took an apprenticeship until he was drafted (01:06) He was in the 10th Engineer Battalion o He was located at Fort Benning, Georgia for the majority of his time (01:25) He spent 16 weeks in basic training at Fort Pickett, Virginia (01:37) He then went to 8 weeks of leadership school until he was transferred to Fort Jackson, South Carolina (01:53) o He was then sent to Columbus, Ohio He graduated from high school where he played varsity football and was captain of the track team (02:28) At first it was lonely being in the military His battalion did construction work o They built bridges, pontoon bridges, went on maneuvers, etc. He built an insignia for the engineers (04:10) In his free time, soldiers would go and visit different towns in the area, go swimming, etc. (04:22) He served from 1953-1955 (04:56) His experience in the service had a large effect on his life – it would not hurt anyone to have training like that (07:07) The service gives the individual a different view of everything � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KayserV1392V Title A name given to the resource Kayser, Vernon (Interview outline), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kayser, Vernon Description An account of the resource Vernon Kayser was born April 23, 1933 in Caledonia, Michigan. He was drafted and served in the 10th Engineering Battalion. He was sent to Fort Pickett, Virginia for sixteen weeks of basic training and then spent eight weeks of leadership training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina. His battalion built bridges, pontoon bridges, and went on maneuvers during the Korean War. He served from 1953-1955. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Barney, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-05-23 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/467e40f3c5695af6a1e2cbdb3d0c1f98.mp4 f61b03769f1ebd62e000bd1d3ebd905a https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7d0dd915a577548ca4692695f6d1fca3.pdf b5b820d17a8ce795d5b9258977b43cde PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Harry Kutten Length of interview (1:07:28) (0:00:00 – 0:08:11) Background Family (0:00:34 – 0:08:29)  Father and mother born in Russia, father came from Odessa, mother from Belarus (0:00:42)  Father left Russia before 1913 for the U.S. in hopes of bringing his wife and three children to the United States, he already had family in the United States  Father was hired by the International Shoe Company as a foreman in St. Louis, Missouri  Father is of Russian origin, came to the United States and settled in St. Louis, Missouri in 1913 (0:01:27)  Father was a skilled shoemaker, was hired by International Shoe Company as a foreman in St. Louis (0:01:48)  The war broke out in 1914, ending all forms of communication with his family  Paternal grandmother raised father’s children (0:02:05)  Mother married a wealthy man in Belarus, stayed in Russia through the Revolution, came to St. Louis to stay with her sister in 1924 after members of her family died, came to the country illegally (0:02:55)  Parents married in 1924 (0:06:14)  Harry Kutten was born in 1925, was only child of parents. Had a half-brother and halfsister, both now deceased (0:06:19) Childhood and education (0:08:29- 0:10:31)  Grew up in St. Louis (0:08:17)  Went to elementary school, and was a promising young artist, and won a young artists award with the Washington University School of Fine Arts. Attended Washington School of Fine Arts every Saturday until graduation (0:08:52)  Enlisted in the Navy while in high school and went to war, and returned to the Washington School of Fine Arts when he returned (0:010:11) (0:10:47 – 0:15:44) Enlistment and Training Motivation for enlistment (0:10:47- 0:11:20)  Had heard of the tragedy of Pearl Harbor, and felt “astounded” that the U.S. had been so wide open to an incident like that (0:10: 42)  Cited the influence of Hitler and the burden on England to maintain a democracy, he felt “someone had to do something”, he felt obligated (0:10:56) � He wanted to enlist, particularly because his family had been affected by war (0:11:13)  His mother objected to his enlistment, because she had already lost much of her family to war (0:11: 26) Enlistment (0:11:20- 0:13:56)  Enlisted during high school in the fall, before his draft age in 1943  He enlisted rather than waited to be drafted so that he could choose which branch of the military he wanted to serve in (0:12:00)  Chose to enlist in the Navy “for selfish reasons”. He didn’t want to live in a foxhole, and live off of rations. He wanted to have three meals a day and a warm bed at night (0:12: 21)  Had no previous experience with boats (0:12:43)  He was given the responsibility of managing the rest of the trainees, though he was younger than them (0:13:17)  His duty was to control the route of traffic from St. Louis to Farragut, Idaho (0:13: 57) Basic Training (0:13:56- 0:15:44)  Was inducted in St. Louis, and sent to Farragut Naval Training Station in Idaho for basic training (0:13:56)  Took a train ride that passed through Montana to get to Idaho, was impressed with the views of Montana, desired to spend some time in the future in Montana (0:14:00)  Winters in Farragut were “extremely cold” at 30 below zero (0:14:23)  Stood guard at night, putting on layers of clothing  Basic training involved six weeks of straight exercising  Training involved a swimming requirement, with a minimum of 60 yards (0:14:51)  Had a greater chance of surviving the pull of sinking ship if you could swim 60 yards (0:15:19)  Was given liberty, then began active duty on a ship (0:15:42) (0:15:44-0:48:27) Active Duty (0:15:44- 0:18:00) Beginnings  Joined a merchant ship that went across the ocean, ended up in New Caledonia, France (0:15:52)  Beautiful weather during sailing, many people were sick (0:16:17)  Sailors would chew on raw potatoes to stave off hunger (0:16:35)  Got to New Caledonia, assigned to the USS Montpelier (CL- 57) (0:16:45)  Was assigned to be a signalman (0:17:06)  Stationed near the Solomon Islands (0:17: 40) (0:18:00 – 0:23:15) Conflict and battle �               Bombarding Japanese installations in the Solomon Islands (0:17:25) Ship was sent to enemy battle scene almost immediately (0:17: 39) Ships were 10 miles away, zigzagging through the water (0:17:58) Japanese ships were shooting, causing water spouts (0:18:32) The USS Montpelier chased off enemy ships, there were no battleships at the time of this conflict (0:18:45) Mostly surface ships were involved in this conflict, no aircraft (0:19:30) The ship returned to Pearl Harbor, where men stayed in Hawaii hotel (0:19:52) Men were granted liberty before joining a large flotilla of ships (0: 20:11) Created Cruiser Division 12, in section, following the admiral (0:20:16) The flotilla included battleships, destroyers, light cruisers, heavy cruisers, and aircraft “Was grateful to be in such an enterprise” (0:21:06) Flotilla left on a mission going to Guam, Saipan, and Tinian (0:21:16) Many of the planes did not return (0:21:39) The aircraft searched for the missing ships, but did not immediately turn on the lights for fear of being spotted by Japanese submarines (0:21:54) Admiral Second in Command gave orders to turn on the lights, everyone in the fleet cheered because they did not want to lose their ships (0:22:17) Health Issues (0:23:15 – 0:23:40)  On the way to Guam, Siapan, and Tinian he developed a pain in his right side (0:22:59)  Doctor thought it was appendicitis (0:23:21)  Was given an enema, and pain was relieved (0:23:33) (0:23:40-0:36:15) Mission               Went into Saipan, Guam and Tinian (0:23:40) Saipan had the largest number of enemy troops Provided fire support to the troops already landed (0:24:06) Troops would send messages to the ship and tell them where to send shells (0:24:18) Before ships fire, it was custom to ring a bell. Once, a bell did not ring, Harry was standing over the rail of the ship, when the guns went off (0:24:42) Hot flash sent Harry back, Harry went deaf, couldn’t hear the officer's command (0:24:45) Harry was sent to a position in the deck board after this incident until the hissing in his ear dissipated (0:25:13) Harry then went into fire control (0:25:52) While at Saipan, they were sent to battle in the Philippines, where General MacArthur was going to shore. Harry’s fleet was backup, and protected Navy supplies (0:26:13) Speaks of Kamikazee attacks (0:30:01) Anchored in Subic Bay (0:32:00) Was given liberty on the island (0:32:26) Given liberty out to see to avoid a typhoon (0:32:40) Fell off dock, between launch, was pulled up by a friend (0:33:17) � Was in the middle of a typhoon in the China Sea (0:34:16) (0:35:15- 0:48:27) Daily Life on ship  Enjoyed the Navy, said “I’d never had it so good” (0:35:15)  Was offered chance to go back to the U.S. to go to Annapolis, declined offer (0:35:30)  Ship was sent to Okinawa (0:36:25)  Cousin came to visit (0:36:54)  Became Admiral's secretary, and was a backup for the communications department (0:37)12)  After Japan surrendered, ship was sent north to Hiroshima, and support a hospital ship to a naval port (0:38:04)  Volunteered to go across the bay to carry a message in a pouch (0:39:04)  Witnessed the devastation of the atomic bomb (0:41:10)  “Surprised at the power of this one bomb” (speaking of the atomic bomb) (0:41:14)  Arrived at a POW camp, where he saw a number of Americans, and he turned over the paper messages he was to deliver (0:42:21)  The ship left for home, men were given souvenirs, and a number of photographs were taken (0:43:07)  On way back, heard that the Indianapolis had been hit, so their ship took precaution to not turn on any lights (0:43:35)  Went through the Panama Canal to New York City (0:44:03)  Took train to Chicago, in 1946, and was discharged (0:44:14)  Had liberty in Japan. He enjoyed it, thought it was lovely, thought of going back at times (0:44:37)  On the way back, his unit was part of a test in which they blew up another atomic bomb to see the effect (0:45:22)  Had seen what one bomb had done, and was not so curious about what the atomic bomb would be like, he stayed below deck while others watched the atomic bomb explode (0:45:49)  Enjoyed sea duty, but preferred excitement outside of military life (0:47:16)  Witnessed a lot of poverty, and felt glad to be an American (0:48:27) (0:48:27-1:06:42) Post Service  Went back to St. Louis (0:48:42)  Finished high school and enrolled in Washington School of Fine Arts (0:48:54)  After earning his degree, went with buddies to Paris, the government was offering schooling (0:49:18)  Bought a one way ticket to Paris on a merchant ship (0:50:18)  Went first to Amsterdam and then took train to Paris (0:50:39)  Spent year in Paris, took a train to Rome to view art, was greatest experience he’d ever had (0:50:55)  Wrote a letter to his mother for a ticket to get back to the States (0:52:30)  Helped his father as a tailor. Father said “Only good artist is a dead artist”, father wanted him to have a trade (0:53:08) �             Regrets not being an artist, learned a trade to help his family (0:53:40) Met future wife, she lived in Michigan, traveled to Grand Rapids, Michigan (0:54:06) Enrolled in Western Michigan, earned a Master’s Degree (0:54:39) Was hired by Kendall College of Art and Design, retired at age 65 (0:54:15) Navy was a “great” experience, despite what he saw (0:55:09) Went to Sears and Roebuck Co., after father died, the family business was not very successful, and earned teaching certificate in Chicago (0:56:06) Went to Israel after saved up vacation time (0:56:51) Was interrogated while traveling in Israel (0:58:51) Because of Jewish identity, felt like he had to go to the Wailing Wall to represent all of the Jewish people who didn’t make it (0:59:14) Stayed in Israel for six months, and wrote a resignation to Sears, staying he wanted to stay in Israel (0:59:56) Met his half-brother in Israel, whom he hadn’t seen in 15 years (1:02:10) Signed up for the Israeli home guard, because he thought he would be in Israel for awhile (1:05:03) Returned to the U.S., but made several trips back to Israel (1:06:42) End of interview 1:07:28 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KuttenH1174V Title A name given to the resource Kutten, Harry (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kutten, Harry Description An account of the resource Harry Kutten was born in St. Louis in 1924 to Russian immigrant parents, and enlisted in the Navy while still in high school after he heard of the tragedy of Pearl Harbor. He felt obligated to join the armed forces after this incident, and cited the growing influence of Hitler and the threat to democracy as his motivation. Harry completed basic training at the Farragut Naval Training Station in Idaho. After training he joined a merchant ship that sailed to New Caledonia and assigned as a signalman aboard the light cruiser USS Montpelier. He served aboard the ship in the Solomon Islands, and later on as part of the flotilla that went to the Marianas and provided support for troops on Saipan. From there, he went on to the Philippines, Okinawa and Japan. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-08-18 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8a8b91ed3887a63215284425e74062eb.mp4 ab5e5bd37ca4990be87cabd7ff17d31b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ff1f7bc2ac74a67fef14f27d9d5c8d8f.pdf 9d59b669f652f5f079e308676104175e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran History Project Interview World War II Anthony Kuna Total Time – (38:29) Background • • • He was born April 23, 1923 in Shepherd, Michigan (00:35) He was a part of the 71st Division He received many medals from the military o He received two Bronze Stars for bravery (01:08) o He is not exactly sure how he earned the Bronze Stars (01:59) Enlistment/Training – (02:04) • • • • • • • • • • • • He was drafted when he was 18 years old (02:37) o He was not given time to make a decision if he wanted to enlist Before he was drafted he had a job He went to basic training at Camp Carson, Colorado (02:45) o It was his first time out of Michigan o He enjoyed seeing the mountains He went out there by train (03:09) The first weeks at basic training were very difficult o They weren’t used to receiving orders o They were trained by veterans (03:38) He had been at Fort Custer in Michigan for a few days receiving medical shots, etc. He does not know why he had been chosen for artillery duty o He just happened to be in that camp (04:04) At Fort Carson, every man that was over six feet tall was chosen to work with mules because he could load a mule without having to stand on his toes (04:43) o It was extremely different to work with mules – they are smarter than horses o Those from the city had a tough time dealing with the animals In an infiltration course, the machine gun fell and shot a man in the helmet – he ended up being fine (06:05) After Fort Carson, he was sent to California (06:50) o It rained the entire time that they were on maneuvers They used mules to haul supplies through swamps and for hauling supplies He was then sent to Georgia (08:13) o He did not like Georgia because it was so hot and muggy (08:15) �• • • • • • The food in training was pretty good (08:36) o Their cook made their food the way it was supposed to be cooked At Fort Benning, Georgia, his made duty was cooking (09:19) A month before they were preparing to go overseas, they pulled him out and put him on a machine gun (09:25) He was trained on a 50 caliber machine gun He was attached to an 155mm artillery unit It was strange to transfer from civilian life to military life (10:19) Active Duty – (10:47) • • • • • • • • • • • • • He was shipped to Europe by a boat o He was excited to get on the ship because it was something different (11:01) o There were many that got seasick It took 12 days – there were 112 ships in the convoy that went across (11:26) o They left New York Harbor  They could see the Statue of Liberty when they left They were bunked in the ship – there were 6 levels of bunks They were attacked by a submarine (12:38) They landed in Le Havre, France (13:01) From Le Havre, they traveled to a place where tents were set up in a field (13:25) o They stayed in the field until their equipment made it o They were there for nearly 10 days After spending time in the field, they left for Vichy [not Vichy, but tot he AlsaceLorraine sector near the German border], France where they began fighting (14:25) o They went back and forth with the Germans o They softened up enemy positions for the infantry He continued on until reaching Wels, Austria (15:28) When he got into Germany, there was nothing left to the towns but piles of bricks (16:12) o Saw a railroad engine two blocks from the railroad yard He was assigned to the 155mm cannon crew (16:39) o There was a gunner, guy on the breach, two men on the tray, and two would ram the shell in, and then two men would put the powder in (16:56)  The recoil was roughly 4 to 5 feet o The shell of the 155mm weighed around 96 lbs. each. (17:39) o His main duty was to protect the cannons The perimeter was set by placing machine guns around it (18:25) For gun placement, they would try to get into the woods in order to hide o Sometimes they had to be out in the open (18:54) Their job was to soften the German front lines so that the infantry could come through �• • • • • • • • • • • • • They ate C-rations wherever they were and they slept on the ground (19:38) o At one point they had to eat K-rations  He enjoyed the C-rations more When they slept they would sometimes dig a hole (20:46) He was able to send letters nearly once a week o Receiving letters made the soldiers feel good (21:41) o He had a girl back home They crossed the Rhine River at night (22:37) o They were crossing on pontoon bridges At one point, two planes were strafing them – he shot down both of them (24:02) Another time, they were told they were surrounded o He shot off around 5 cases of ammunition – 500 rounds in each case His unit found civilians hoarding Red Cross supplies (25:27) o The packages were supposed to be used for their prisoners of war In Wels, Austria, he was sent on guard duty outside of the city (26:07) o He was not aware before he got there that there was a death camp  They opened the gate and he could smell the death (26:27)  There were “walking skeletons”  Pits of people  Some were cut from head to toe  When those in the camp were fed real food they died – their stomachs were not used to real food (27:19)  The prisoners thanked the soldiers that liberated them  He had guard duty in the death camp  He was here for two weeks o He began wondering how humans could do that to another o At one point he gave a cigarette to a prisoner and instead of smoking it, he ate it (28:42) o The military brought the people of Wels in to see it (29:05)  Those in the city said that they did not know what was going on  The military ordered them to build coffins and give proper burials to the dead prisoners (29:21) He later met with a man that was a prisoner in the Wels concentration camp (30:55) o They hugged when they met o The prisoner was a teenager when he was at the camp o They are still in touch (31:38) He was able to see one of the first jets that Germans had during the war After the war, he went back to Germany to try and accumulate enough points to leave When he went home, he was loaded onto a train and taken to a camp where he was designated as a cook (35:03) He then went from Le Havre, France back to America – there were 15,000 aboard the USS General Taylor (35:30) �After the Service – (35:49) • • • • • • The Statue of Liberty signified to them that they were home The war made him into a man – went in as a boy, came out as a man (36:33) When he returned home, he went back to work at the a trailer plant (36:43) o It was not hard to get a job there – they accepted them right back in He then became a cop in the Alma, Michigan o There were two sets of laws in the town – a set for the poor and a set for the rich He retired in 1988 (38:02) Went to Central Michigan University and retired from there � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KunaA1308V Title A name given to the resource Kuna, Anthony (Interview outline and video), 2007 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kuna, Anthony Description An account of the resource Anthony Kuna was born in 1923 in Shepherd, Michigan. He was drafted into the Army when he was 18 years old and was sent to Camp Carson, Colorado, where he trained as an artillerist. After maneuvers in California and further training at Fort Benning, Georgia, his unit, the 71st Division, was shipped to France. He served as a machine gunner assigned to a battery of 155 mm guns. His unit fought through the Siegfried Line in January, 1945, and moved across southern Germany, ending the war in Austria, where his unit liberated a concentration camp. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Weber, Mark (Interviewer) Lowell Area Historical Museum (Lowell, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2007-01-15 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8646d2d6ba383f1a5b9761152042efc1.m4v b2a76c5639d811f24a86d9ea2dc00069 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/843a73b4394aa93e6b02cabba9c86627.pdf 1296a60998d6cf821e86860e329683f6 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Harold Kuizema Length of interview (1:00:15) (00:00) Background Born in Grand Rapids, MI in 1925. (00:00) Went to Oakdale Christian School, which was the same school that his father had attended and his mother was a teacher there. (00:12) Describes his reaction to the bombings of Pearl Harbor, which occurred while he was in high school. (00:50) Once he graduated high school, he wanted to join the Air Corps. However, the testing determined that he was colorblind. (02:00) While taking a trip to California in September of 1943, his parents had received notice that he was to report to Detroit because he had been drafted into the U.S. Army. However, he was unable to report for a few weeks because he was out of state. When he returned in November, he had to report to Detroit. (04:00) (05:30) Basic Training After reporting to Detroit, they were sent to the Chicago area for induction. From there they traveled by train to Camp Roberts in California for seventeen weeks of training. (05:41) Woke up at 6:00am for revelry, followed by breakfast, calisthenics, and then specialty training. He was in the artillery unit and communications in the 106th Infantry Division. (07:44) His speciality was primarily communications. He learned to operate the telephone, radio, and semaphore. (08:42) Describes the physical training. Recalls that overall, he enjoyed it. (09:08) Recalls that his drill instructor, Sergeant Webb, was a very disciplined individual. Thinks that the drill instructor must have liked him because after the first few weeks, he made him an Acting Corporal. (09:52) At this point, he had no idea where he would be going. (10:23) On the weekends, he either visited his cousin or went to Pasadena with some of his friends from high school who were also at Camp Roberts. (10:36) His training at Camp Atterbury was much more specialized and intense. He was placed in a Wire Section where his responsibility was to lay wires from the guns to the Observation Point (OP), and to either operate the phones either at the guns or at the OP. (12:10) After laying the wires, they were usually the last people to leave because they had to pick up the wires. (13:00) Colonel Kelly told them that they were going to be “German killers.” He assumed that he was going to Germany. (14:17) After his seventeen weeks, they were given fifteen days of furlow time and he went home to visit his family before reporting to Camp Atterbury, Indiana, (11:01) Because his father was a World War I veteran, when Harold left him to go overseas, he broke down because he realized that it might be the last time he saw his son. (11:27) �Reported back to camp before boarding the U.S.S. Wakefield. (15:06) (15:15) Service in France Recalls that he had never been on a ship before, but was lucky because he did not get seasick despite the rough oceans. (15:15) The trip took approximately seven days before they reached Liverpool, England. Ship zigzagged in order to avoid submarines. (16:14) Traveled to a camp. Was delegated to go to Wales to pick up trucks. (16:36) Afterwards, they went to Southampton to pick up LSTs and then traveled across the English Channel. (17:09) Thinks that he learned more about what they were doing after his service ended. (17:25) Traveled by truck across France, camping along the way. Recalls that it was cold and rainy in late November. (17:41) Thinks that he was too naive at the time to realize the dangers. Admits that he was afraid and concerned, but not as much as the older men. (18:27) Traveled across France to the frontlines without resistance, where they took over the positions of the 2nd Infantry Division. Were told that the area was very quiet that was wellequipped with bunkers. (18:53) (19:44) Battle of the Bulge Their artillery was firing day and night. Some men were sent to operate at the outpost to operate the phones and were captured the first day, on December 16. Luckily, at the time, he was stationed at the battery. (19:44) On the morning of the 16th, they were shelled very heavily. Because they were so well dug in, he doesn’t recall any casualities. However, by the afternoon, tanks began arriving and they sent out men with bazookas who were killed immediately. (21:03) There was a battery across the road that had a gun that was not put in position. and they used direct fire on the tanks down the road and were able to destroy one of the tanks. But in the meantime, the remaining tanks opened fire on them and they suffered from many casualties. (21:50) During this encounter, he was delegated to go to Schomberg to get ammunition. When they arrived, Schomberg was being heavily shelled as well. Describes the difficulty they faced while returning. (22:32) Was assigned to go to the rear to find new positions to retreat to. (24:34) Recalls that during the retreat, he found a cave to hide in for protection. While he was in the cave, three 88 shells landed within 1500 ft of him. (25:39) Suggested putting the switchboard in the cave. Began laying wire from the switchboard across the road. However, they were told to evacuate before they were able to finish because they were notified that German tanks were coming. (26:11) Describes the retreat to Schomberg. All of the trucks except for one made it. Troops were never able to get their guns out of the area and they were consequently destroyed. (27:37) Describes how he kept warm during this time. (30:53) Continued retreating until they reached St. Vith in Belgium where he rejoined the men from his particular wire section. (31:40) Describes the scope of this battle. (33:17) �By the 19th, they had retreated to an area near Vielsallm where they reorganized and acquired food. Describes staying at a farmhouse where they pulled guard. (33:41) The following morning, they received notice to turn the area into a defensive position. Describes their process. Several troops eventually joined them there within the next few days. (36:26) On the morning of the 20th, a German patrol of about 25 or 30 men came down the road. Opened up their 50 calibers and killed the majority of them and had taken several prisoners. (38:40) Describes his impression of the Germans. Recalls that the majority of them were startlingly young and many were very willing to give up. (40:06) Recalls that there were snipers who had managed to hide in haystacks who had killed some of their men. (41:22) Thinks that the Germans didn’t realize what they had because of the fog. (42:00) On the 23rd, the Germans had completely surrounded them. Describes this encounter. (43:02) At one point, a shell hit his thumb. He went to the CP and realized that his wound was largely insignificant compared to what others were suffering from. While he was there, he watched them interrogate a German officer. (43:27) Describes the German tanks hitting their building. While trying to escape, he was hit in the leg. They retreated to a ditch and someone dressed his wound. Everyone who had stayed in the CP had been captured. (44:40) (46:43) Recuperation Describes his experience escaping through the woods towards a field hospital where there were several American and German wounded men. Spent a few days there before being sent to another hospital. (46:43) Was transported first by train then by ambulance to Paris. The hospital in Paris had just been set up by American nurses. Describes some of the serious injuries he saw. When he arrived, he wrote his first letter to his family. Before that, his family had received a notice saying that he was Missing in Action. (47:45) Was flown to England where he spent the next four months recovering from wounds and frozen feet. (49:35) After three months in the hospital, he was given a job at the hospital from the head of the ward who he knew from Grand Rapids. Describes some of his duties. (50:23) After his four months, he returned to his outfit and was given a pass for a week off. Describes some of his unique experiences. (51:20) He had had difficulty returning to his outfit because they were responsible for dealing with prisoners. Describes his travels throughout Europe. At this point, he had a strong sense that the war was ending. (53:00) When he finally returned to his outfit, it had been completely reorganized, the majority of which were replacements. Describes some of his duties. (54:17) Describes the “jubilation” he saw on VE-Day. (54:57) Left his outfit in August to return to the United States to join the 104th Division to go to the Pacific. VJ-Day occured when they were about to leave. Describes the celebration when they arrived in New York Harbor. (55:43) �(57:19) Life After Service When he landed in Chicago, he visited aunt and uncle before taking a train to Grand Rapids. (57:19) Doesn’t recall exactly how his parents greeted him, but says that it must’ve been one of pure elation. (58:37) He met his wife during this time, who he married four years later. (58:55) Because he had had some typing experience, he was sent to Camp Campbell, Kentucky, where he was placed in a discharge center until he had earned enough points to be discharged in December. (59:02) Thinks that his military service forced him to grow up and mature very quickly. (59:31) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context KuizemaH Title A name given to the resource Kuizema, Harold (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kuizema, Harold Description An account of the resource Harold Kuizema was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1925. After high school, he had tried to join the Air Corps, but was unable to because the testing determined that he was colorblind. In November of 1943, he was drafted into the U.S. Army Corps during World War II. He trained with the 106th Division, which went to Europe in the fall of 1944. His specialty was primarily communications and he was responsible for operating the telephones and laying wires from the guns to the observation points. His artillery unit had just taken up positions on the Ardennes front when they were attacked at the start of the Battle of the Bulge. He managed to stay a step ahead of the Germans, and was fighting at a roadblock when he was wounded and evacuated to England. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Michigan Military Preservation Society (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-03-03 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives