711 24 26018 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c0084c90bd30d5512da02dda7f462936.mp4 6d455ebbc72cde5634ee002e39b1cd09 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/71ead171940c0be3eaa0d2d6331f6cb5.pdf 8cf18bb2778c9eb8a8a1b77084d2d38d PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW RANDY MANN Born: July 1949 Battle Creek, Michigan Interviewed by: James Smither PhD, GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, June 25, 2012 Interviewer: Now Randy can you start off with some background on yourself? To begin with, where and when were you born? I was born in Battle Creek, Michigan, Calhoun County, in July of 1949. Interviewer: Now, did you grow up there? No, well actually the first couple of years I lived in Battle Creek with my mother and father and my sister, who was born in 1951. Then my mother and father separated and divorced and we moved in with my grandparents out in Dowling, Michigan on their 160 acre dairy farm. I lived there until 1960. Interviewer: Then after that what did you do? In 1960 my mother remarried and took this farm boy and moved him to Lansing, Michigan, into the city, and where I graduated from high school in 1968 from Everett High School. 1:06 Then in 1969 I went in the service. Interviewer: Now, when you graduated from high school did you go get a job? What were your plans? Actually, when I was in high school, my senior year in high school, I worked for a gas station convenience store. At the time this was kind of a precursor to what convenience stores are now. It was next door and upon graduation from high school I went to work for Zale's Jewelry as a combination stock person, sales, whatever, just kind of general 1 �whatever they had for me to do. I worked for them for almost a year before I went to work for Stover Auto Parts driving a delivery truck. Interviewer: So, you were just kind of looking around for whatever job you could get at that point? 2:01 Yeah, well I put an application in for General Motors and was accepted for a job for General Motors. I had my job all lined up and knew what I was going to be doing. Interviewer: And Uncle Sam called? And I didn‘t pass the physical because they said I had a curvature of the spine. Sixty three days later I was in the United States Army, in perfect health. Interviewer: You didn’t have any problem with your spine at that point? No Interviewer: When did you get your draft notice? Gosh, I got my draft notice, notification of status and stuff, just shortly after I graduated from high school, but it was a good eighteen months after that before I actually went in. Interviewer: Were they doing the draft by the lottery system at that point? No, my—it was basically if you went in and took your physical and stuff, and if you were classified 1-A, you were going, there was no lottery. The lottery didn‘t begin until several years later. 3:05 Interviewer: Not too much longer after that then, they shut the whole thing down entirely. Right Interviewer: Anyway, they were still working with the draft board system at that point? 2 �Yes Interviewer: Before you got drafted, what, if anything, did you know about what was going on in Vietnam? You know, I was pretty naïve about what was going on there. I really didn‘t have any idea as to why we were there, what was going on, and where Vietnam even was. I was really not aware of it. I knew I didn‘t want to go, I was pretty apprehensive about it, but on the same token I was thinking, ―Well, you know, it‘s part of my duty as an American citizen to honor my country and honor my family‖. My father was in WWII, in the Navy. 4:03 Interviewer: So you accept it once it comes? Certainly Interviewer: Take us through the induction process. Once they do call you up, where do you go and what do you do? Well, initially we went to Detroit where we had our pre-induction physicals, and that was quite a daunting deal there. You get in there and they run you through the whole gamut. I mean this is the second time to go to Detroit for a complete physical, and at which time the physical is finished, they bring everybody into a room and they swear you in as being in the United States military, and then they went there and said, ―All right, we need individuals here, x number of individuals, to be in the Marine Corps and the rest of you will be in the Army. Are there any volunteers?‖ Well, when anybody didn‘t volunteer for the Marine Corps, they just went down through the line and picked out—walked through there and said, ―Everybody from here to here step forward. You are now in the Marines. The rest of you are in the Army‖. 5:08 They loaded us up on buses at that 3 �point in time, and all of us that were going into the Army, they took us to Fort Knox, Kentucky where we were given another physical and given our uniforms, our clothing and everything we needed, issued what we call tack, and it was like a pistol belt and stuff—all the gear and stuff we needed, everything but a weapon. We weren‘t issued any kind of weapon yet. Then we were taken to our basic training quarters, buildings, which, for me, our group of guys, was actually quite nice. It wasn‘t one of the old wood barracks, it was a nice three story, large concrete building. 6:06 I mean, that housed everything, the mess hall was there, the offices and stuff were there, all the platoon barracks were there, all the sergeants had their rooms and stuff there, the kitchen, or mess hall, the laundry, the arms room, or armory and everything all in one nice large building. Interviewer: Did you have the impression that it was just built a few years earlier as part of the Vietnam buildup? It was not—yeah, it was relatively modern, it was built in the late sixties, where the wood buildings were built for WWI or WWII. Interviewer: Yeah, you had—with the expansion of the army they processed a lot of guys through Fort Knox. At least we got that part, now how were you treated by the drill sergeants? Actually, the guys in my platoon that I was in, we were treated quite well. 7:05 It was—they were rough, they were—they didn‘t cut you any slack at all. These individuals had been in Vietnam—Sergeant Johnson, I‘ll never forget Sergeant Johnson. Sergeant Johnson stood about five nine and weighed about two hundred and thirty pounds, a black man, kind of reminded you of a gorilla. Strong as an ox and he was not the platoon sergeant, he was an E-6, and the platoon sergeant, Sergeant White, didn‘t live 4 �on the base, he lived off base with his family and he would come in. But, Sergeant Johnson would tell us, ―All right now guys‖, and whoever was on fire guard he‘d make sure you passed it on down the line to wake him up at x time, usually around four o‘clock in the morning, and he would leave in his Chevy Nova that he had, which was all souped up and everything. 8:06 And he would, in the evening, he would take off and go out bar hopping or whatever, and come dragging in about midnight or one o‘clock in the morning and the guys would be—―Make sure somebody wakes me up at four o‘clock‖, and four o‘clock, knock on his door, he‘s up, and he would look like he—I‘m going ―How can this?‖ But, he really treated us quite well. I was quite surprised, you know, they had training things that they did, but at the same time, they were strict, yet understanding. A prime example of that was that your brass, the stuff that you wore on your collars for your dress uniforms and your khaki uniforms, had lacquer on it, but the lacquer had to come off so you could take and polish it with Brasso. Well, taking this lacquer off by hand and rubbing it with a cloth and stuff with the Brasso stuff takes forever. 9:04 Sergeant Johnson comes in with a towel, Brasso, a piece of a cleaning rod from a M14 and he says, ―Gentlemen, this is the way we can take the lacquer off of there quickly‖. He has a drill with him and he puts the rod in the drill, sticks it through the center hole, puts the Brasso on it, sticks it down on that, turns it on and zzzzzt, and it‘s just that quick, and he turns it loose to us. So, where other guys, in other platoons, I found out, would actually have to sit there and clean it by hand. The sergeant, on the other hand, comes in and makes it easy for us, and I‘m thinking, ―Well, this might not be too bad after all. This is somebody that actually has a heart‖. Interviewer: Was there a lot of physical training as part of this? 5 �Oh, physical training, all day every day. I mean it was just—we‘d line up in the platoon formations. 10:04 And to get into the chow hall, when your squad was peeled off, you had to run around the field, in other words, or the parade field was our formation area, you had to make two laps around that and then come through at what they call the horizontal ladder, drop down in front of that, do ten pushups, come up and then a trip through the horizontal ladder, off the end of that, over to a pull up bar, do ten pull ups, and then you could go in and actually have your food. Interviewer: Were you in good shape when you went in? I wasn‘t in bad shape, I mean I was physically in fairly good shape, but nothing compared to what I was by the time—it was just, I went in at five foot nine weighing a hundred and sixty five pounds. Two years later when I‘m discharged, I come out still at five nine weighing a hundred and forty five pounds. 11:04 I mean, I had not an ounce of fat on me, even by the time basic training was over. I mean we had low crawl pits we had to go through, we had forced marches, it just—I mean you had a great deal of very intense physical training. Interviewer: Can you characterize the men who were training alongside you? Where were they from, and what kind of backgrounds did they have, as far as you could see? You know it was basically just a microcosm of the entire country. We had people—the vast majority of the guys from my platoon were from Michigan, but all over Michigan. We had guys from all over the United States that were there for basic training, within our company of two hundred men. I mean, they were from everywhere and with all different types of backgrounds. 12:02 We had one gentleman there, and I kind of chuckled, 6 �Andy Bird, and that‘s going back a ways to remember that guys name, but the reason I remember his name is because he was only five foot and weighed about ninety-five pounds. I‘m thinking, ―Ok, what are you going to do with this guy?‖ When the orders came down for our AIT training and stuff, they sent him to be a cook. He went to be a cook and went to cooking school, so that was cool because I‘m thinking, ―There‘s no way this guy is going to make it in the infantry because he‘s just not big enough‖. Our Rucksacks in Vietnam—mine on average weighed a hundred and forty-seven pounds. This is going to be fifty pounds more than this guy weighs, and it‘s like—no way. Interviewer: Were most of the men draftees, or was it kind of a balance? Yes, we didn‘t have anybody that had enlisted in my company, everybody was drafted. Interviewer: As you kind of went through the induction process at Fort Knox, I mean did you have people who were trying to find ways to get out of the service or get themselves kicked out? 13:09 Yeah, we did, we actually had one guy—the way it was set up was there were two sets of bunk beds with a partition between, so there were actually four of us in this little cubicle type thing, and we had one individual that was in the top bunk across from my bunk, who was—I don‘t remember his name right now, and only because he wasn‘t there very long, who refused to bathe, period. After several excursions in the middle of the night to try to convince him to bathe, they went ahead and rolled him back and put him back, rolled him back to another class and then he—I don‘t know if he was straightened out then or what, I don‘t know, but I‘m going to assume they finally decided he needed to be discharged for mental reasons. 14:08 He wasn‘t, he just wasn‘t too well wrapped. I‘m surprised he made it that far through the process and to even get into basic training. 7 �Interviewer: Some people will tell stories about being at the induction center and going through the tests and having some people load up on sugar and things like that to get themselves labeled as diabetic, or trying to do strange things in terms of tests to get labeled as mentally unstable or whatever. You know, I never—this is the only one I saw and I‘m not sure what the deal was there. He just—he didn‘t—he just wouldn‘t bathe and I don‘t know if this was a ploy of his to get discharged, or to get moved out or labeled as not mentally fit for military service or what, or if it was just a situation. Because I‘ve run across other individuals in my life—a prime example, driving truck, It was a job that I did and there was an individual there that worked with me as a second seat driver for me, who didn‘t bathe or wouldn‘t change his clothes. 15:11 I finally told—I mean there‘s---different individuals have different family upbringing and stuff, and it may have been one of those situations where he A. didn‘t like to get undressed in front of other men because—honestly, you go in here and it‘s not an individual shower, it‘s a shower with eight or ten or a dozen shower heads with walls all around it. I mean it‘s—and it may have been a situation like that where he just wasn‘t comfortable being naked around other men, but ―I‘m sorry dude, that‘s the army‖, that‘s the way it‘s set up. Interviewer: So, on the whole the guys you were training alongside kind of accepted their lot and they were going to go through with doing their job? Surely, absolutely Interviewer: What kind of AIT did you get? 8 �I drew infantry AIT in Fort Polk, Louisiana. 16:02 Very interesting, Tigerland, North Fort, very much, the terrain, everything was very much like being in South Vietnam. I mean there were swampy areas, bamboo and I don‘t know if this is stuff that they had actually brought in and set up the fort like that, some of it, yes it was, but the AIT training was done in Fort Polk, Louisiana, and that was interesting training, very interesting training. Interviewer: Can you describe a little bit what happened there? Well, I‘m—it was hot, because I took my basic training and it started in July and I had eight weeks there, so we‘re in Louisiana in September, and it‘s hot and sticky, muggy, and mosquitoes, and just all kinds of vermin and one thing and another. 17:02 And we were then in the old wood barracks, single story wood barracks and stuff, and some of them might have actually been –no, I think they were two story wood barracks, yeah, they were two story, but it‘s the old buildings. It‘s an interesting deal there because we would have GI inspections and stuff where they would come in—well, they inspected the buildings every day. The sergeants, when you were out doing training stuff, they would inspect every single day of the week and you had to be able to—the floors had to be— you could shave off these linoleum floors, I mean they had to be highly buffed or—I mean everything had to be just so, so. They took us through a lot of our weapons training, we fired weapons that I never saw again, I fired a 90mm recoilless rifle, and I never saw one after training, but again it was just very, very intense infantry training. 18:06 To learn your escape and evasion tactics, learn your camouflage tactics and stuff, how to hide in plain sight, I mean you‘re just—it was very enlightening, but again, very intense training because the vast majority of the guys, as soon as they left AIT, they were 9 �going home for a thirty day leave and then they were going over to Vietnam, and they were going to be out in the jungle. Interviewer: Were you being trained by people who had been to Vietnam already? Yes, everybody that was on the staff had done at least one tour and some of them had done two or even three tours of duty in Vietnam. These individuals, when they talked you paid attention because they have been there and they had done it, and they know what they‘re talking about. Interviewer: Did they talk about things like how to deal with the Vietnamese themselves and that sort of issue? 19:04 Well, they did to a certain degree, but by the same token, when you got to Vietnam it was different because some areas—you had to learn and they did tell you to be very, very cautious, you don‘t—because you never knew when one—it might be a Vietnamese child that is booby trapped, they did that. They would tell you to be very cautious, don‘t mingle around with the, and associate with the Vietnamese in large groups of U.S. troops, stay away and be very, very cautious about where you‘re at and what happens etc. because you never know. It‘s like, this is kind of rough for this individual who‘s a very trusting individual and everybody‘s a friend and all of a sudden you‘re finding out that nobody is your friend. 20:09 The only friends you have are your fellow servicemen and that‘s it, which was kind of hard to deal with and learn to get around, but by the same token I‘m here. Interviewer: So, you get through AIT and are you on the list to go straight to Vietnam or do you go somewhere else? 10 �No, about a third to half of the way through AIT training, they called a large group of us, and it must have been close to a third of the company, very close to between eighty to a hundred of us, well actually about fifty to sixty of us, maybe somewhere—about a third anyway. They brought us into the day room and sat us all down there and they said, ―Now gentlemen, the reason we have brought you in here is because you have all scored high enough on your entrance exams etc. that you are all qualified to go on to NCO school, OCS, or Warrant Officers Flight School, and these are your options. 21:19 You can go ahead and take the NCO school‖, as they refer to the dead as the ―Shake and Bakes‖ if I remember correctly. ―You can go to NCO school and you will retain your status as a US, in other words a draftee, and only a two year commitment in the service. You can go to Warrant Officers flight school, which in turn you have to change and become an RA, a regular army enlistee, and you will be obligated for three years of military active service, but you will become a Warrant Officer helicopter pilot‖. 22:08 ―Or you can go to OCS, which then also means that you have to sign up as a three year regular enlistee and you will come out as a ―Butter Bar‖, ―Whip and Chill‖ lieutenant and be an officer.‖ I chose to go to the NCO school after finishing my AIT training. Interviewer: Were there some people who chose not to go to any of them? Yes, which I thought to myself, ‗Wait a minute, this—there‘s two things going to happen by taking and going to any one of these three, especially the NCO school. You‘re going to stay in the states longer and get more training and more skills before you go to Vietnam‖. 23:02 The bottom line was, we were all going to Vietnam. We were all infantry AIT training, so we were all going to go to Vietnam, there is no question. ―Why not get more training? Spend more time in the states before you go over, be more 11 �confidant with yourself, and then on top of that you‘re going to have a higher rank and you‘re going to make more money, they‘re going to pay you more for this‖. But, some of them just said no, they didn‘t want the responsibility, and that‘s fine you know, but I did. Interviewer: Where did they send you for NCO school? Fort Benning, Georgia, and I went home for a weekend leave and then went to Fort Benning, Georgia for the NCOS, Noncommissioned Officers School, NCOS or CS, I can‘t remember what it was now anyway, and that again was some very intense training. 24:02 Again, the older buildings, the two story buildings and we had, at that point in time they assigned us, within your platoons, each week they rotated it and they actually assigned you different positions and every week they would rotate it through there and somebody would be the sergeant major. You would have platoon sergeants, you would have squad leaders, I mean everybody was given—and we were automatically, as soon as we got there, we were automatically, everybody—you got of AIT—basic training we wore a single stripe, when we came out of AIT we had a—we were a private first class, a ―Rocker‖. At that point in time when you went from there--you went there and they automatically gave you the rank of an E4, corporal. 25:01 It‘s like, ―alright‖, and they would give us these arm bands to wear, you‘re a sergeant, and you‘re an E6, E7 or whatever and rotate that through. Then again, we had some very intense training and a lot of leadership training, and physical training. More physical training and we had—I mean it was very regimented going into the dining hall, into the chow hall, they actually had squares set up on the path that went up to there and you would stand in that square, when the next person moved ahead you would stop forward and stand with, you know, at parade rest and move like that again and when you got up there again the same situation, 12 �dropping down, ten pull-ups or pushups, then onto a bar and do so many pull-ups. 26:03 The officers there, the sergeants, if they saw any little infraction they would pull you out and put you in what they called the ―dying Cockroach position‖, which was laying on your back with your feet and your hands up in the air and you would lay there and you didn‘t dare move or they would get you out and do there what was an eight count or a ten count pushup, which would just absolutely kill you. They would get you down and they‘d count to it and you would squat down and kick your feet out and you‘d get in that position and then they would take you and you would go down and they would count very slowly and they would get you down to where your nose was just barely off the ground and then they would hold you there, and then they would bring you up slowly and then they would do this all over. 27:02 If you had a string hanging off a button you were in trouble, ―get rid of that pull cord, you‘re not a paratrooper‖, so you would have to take and burn that little thread off, and then they would take you out and run you through these pushups and the whole nine yards. They were very, very—the whole thing was to teach you some very strong discipline, to be able to take orders and to be able to withstand torture or mistreatment if you were captured. Interviewer: Did they actually try some of the torture or mistreatment tactics on you? No, I mean they were just; they may have, but not that I remember. 28:09 Interviewer: You weren’t getting water boarded or something like that? Oh, no Interviewer: There were some Special Forces types that got that as part of the training. 13 �That was Special Forces type stuff and that‘s a little different. Interviewer: Still they were—basically they were trying to make you as careful as possible. Right, they wanted to make things rough on you because they don‘t want you—they want you to be strong enough that you‘re not going to break under capture. They want to see what you‘re made out of and these pushups, like they did down there, that‘s just—and we did, we had guys that would break and finally say, ―that‘s it, bag it, I‘m over, I‘m done with this, I quit‖. Interviewer: And then they would just go back to regular infantry status? They would go—they would pull them off to one side and in a matter of two or three days they were headed for Vietnam, you know. Interviewer: How long did the school last? 29:01 It was thirteen weeks Interviewer: So, when did you finish that? It was in the winter, February Interviewer: What year? February of 1970 and again I went home for a weekend pass, and then I went from that weekend pass to Fort Polk, Louisiana for eight weeks of OJT where I was a platoon sergeant in charge of training another group of AIT individuals AIT and that was an interesting deal there. We had, out of that group of individuals, there were two hundred men in the company and out of the two hundred men there were seven of them that were regular army, that had enlisted, and they were all going on to OCS. 30:11 One individual that was in my platoon, I rode him exceptionally hard, he was going to OCS, I 14 �didn‘t cut him any slack, his last name was Hershey, his grandfather was General Hershey, so we kind of rode him. We didn‘t cut anybody any slack in that entire unit because everybody, with the exception of these seven individuals, was National Guard and they were all going back home after their training. Interviewer: So, they—I was kind of wondering about that, because you had mentioned that the people that had been training you in AIT were all guys who were Vietnam veterans etc. and then I think, “Why would they take the “Shake and Bake” sergeant who hasn’t been there yet to train guardsmen?” Because we were—we had to have training in a leadership position. I‘m saying that the guys that were training us, they were not all prior Vietnam veterans; I mean they had not been over to Vietnam. 31:05 We had individuals like myself who were there in the AIT, but they were down the line as far as—they did the actual—a prime example, what I did is I taught in the yard, the company yard, between the barracks and stuff out there, I taught the handling, use, teardown, cleaning, reassembly and stuff of the 45caliber pistol, military pistol. I taught everybody how to tear it down, how to clean it, how to reassemble it etc. I got to the point in time where—and these guys are just like, ―How can you do this?‖ I would disassemble it and reassemble it behind my back in less than two minutes, and they‘re looking at me like, ―How on earth can you possibly do this?‖ 32:01 ―Practice, I‘ve been practicing this, I‘ve been doing this for a long time. I can tear down an M60 machine gun and do it blindfolded and put it back together. I can tear down an M79 grenade launcher and put it back together blindfolded because we‘ve done it over and over, time and time again until it gets to the point where it‘s second nature‖. 15 �You could put one in front of me now and I wouldn‘t know how to put the ammunition in it anymore. I would, but tearing it down, I wouldn‘t have any idea. Interviewer: They really worked this stuff out pretty carefully for a lot of purposes to try to prepare them as best they could for what you were getting on to do next. Well, in fact our last week of NCO school was an interesting week. They called it Ranger week, and where they took us out and we spent the week out in the swamps and stuff just like we were actually in Vietnam. 33:08 Now, it‘s rather unusual because we‘re out here in swampy ground, nasty, wet, having to cross rivers and the whole works, it‘s cold, I didn‘t find any place when I was in Vietnam that when you walked into a wet area, swampy, marshy area, that you actually had to break the skim of ice on top of it to cross it. Still, and it was the same way, they again in the AIT stuff they have—one of the last things they do to you is have you run what they call an E&E course. It‘s an escape and evasion course, which is—they take you out to an area and turn you loose and way, ―all right, we‘ll see you back here in such and such an area and don‘t get caught‖, which is like—ok, and some of the guys got caught. 34:01 It was trying to teach you, after all the training and stuff, that they let you go through a course to see if you‘ve learned anything from what they were teaching you. Interviewer: Now, you’ve made it through—you’ve gone through AIT, you’ve gone through your NCO school, you come back, you’ve been an NCO, and now you’re back at Fort Polk? Are you at the point now where they send you home and then to Vietnam? Yes, I went home, I had a thirty day leave at home and at the end of that thirty days I was to report to Fort Lewis, Washington for my flight to Vietnam, and I was a day late getting 16 �there. I get there and they said, ―Where were you?‖ ―Home‖, ―well, you were supposed to be here yesterday‖, ―yeah‖, my attitude at that time was, ―well, they‘re going to send me to Vietnam anyway, the worst they can do is bust me down to a corporal, give me and Article 15, take me a little money, bust me down one rank, and after thirty days in country I‘m going to have my rank back and my money back, so who cares, I‘m going to Vietnam anyway‖. 35:09 I worked out pretty good, actually, because the guys that went on, were in the group of people that went over when I did, or the day before I got there, several of them were either wounded or killed because of the units they were sent to. So, fortunately it worked out for me. Interviewer: You were on the next planeload that went somewhere else? Yeah Interviewer: Now, when they flew you out, were they doing that in a chartered commercial plane or a military plane? Yes, they were DC7‘s, well they didn‘t have the big planes and stuff like they have today, you know, this was forty years ago, forty two years ago. Interviewer: Was it at least a jet? Yes it was, it wasn‘t a prop plane, but it wasn‘t a big plane, and consequently because it wasn‘t a big plane, it took several hours to get to Vietnam. 36:04 We flew out of the SeaTac Airport, Seattle Tacoma Airport, and we landed in Anchorage, Alaska where they refueled the plane, from there they flew us to Midway where they refueled the plane, from there to Okinawa where they refueled the plane, and from there to Cam Ranh Bay South Vietnam, an eighteen hour flight. Interviewer: And did they let you get off the plane? 17 �No, they didn‘t let us get off the plane; they made us get off the plane. Interviewer: That meant before you got to Cam Ranh? Every time they stopped to refuel they made us get off the plane. They would not refuel it while we were on board. We had to get off the plane and into a waiting area, or waiting room type of thing. When the plane was refueled we got back on the plane. Every time they stopped to refuel we had to get off. Interviewer: They finally get you to Vietnam and what was your first impression of the place once you got off the plane? 37:01 Dirty, smelly, scary, uncomfortable, the first warnings they told us, is if you hear sirens you‘ll watch out and you‘ll see bunkers and stuff, if you hear sirens going off head for one of those bunkers and jump in. There were rocket warnings, in case there was any rocket fire, and within the first twenty-four hours of being there we had six of those warning type things go off and they had rockets fired in six different times. It‘s like, ―man o man, this is not fun, and this is really scary‖. Interviewer: Now, what did they do? You land in Cam Ranh and what happens to you? We went in and we got—of course we‘re in a khaki uniform and that‘s all we have. 38:01 We have no weapons, we have absolutely nothing but the clothes on our back and they take us down and they issue us a set of fatigues and then they start to set up—they‘re going to assign us to different groups, and again they came down through and asked, ―Are there any of you here who would be interested in going to Ranger school?‖ I‘m thinking, ―Maybe‖, so I did go to their Ranger school in Cam Ranh Bay. Actually they sent us up to Chu Lai for the ranger school. We get up to Chu Lai there for their Ranger 18 �school and, it might have been in Cam Ranh, no it was in Chu Lai, I can‘t remember, it was in one of the two. Anyway, the Ranger school is where they really get nasty with you. 39:01 I mean, the school only lasts three weeks, but when you finish that you then become a Ranger working in military intelligence and range recognizance. I completed the training and spent six weeks with them and decided that it wasn‘t what I wanted and asked for a transfer to a straight infantry unit. Interviewer: So, what were you doing in those six weeks that you were with them? It was training, I mean we did training and I went on one mission and that was enough. What they did was basically, G Company 75th Rangers, basically what you did was you collected intelligence. We had no troops in Laos, ok? That‘s the official thing. Officially we did. We would eat nothing but Vietnamese food, we did not bathe, we did not shave, and you didn‘t brush your teeth. 40:08 You wore the same set of—you wore clothing, it was U.S. clothing, but all the tags were removed out of it, you carried captured Vietnamese weaponry, whatever they had, this is what you--because when you actually started to go out on a mission they wanted you to smell just like the Vietnamese. You would actually go out and they would fly us in a helicopter, you would rappel down out of the chopper, set up your area of observation and stuff and generally it was along the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Laos, and actually collect data on troop strength and equipment etc. that was brought down through there and then you would hike back out to the extraction zone where they would drop ropes out, you would tie on and they would yank you up out of the jungle and take you back where you would report all this information. 41:06 Interviewer: How large a group were you? 19 �It varied, anywhere from three to a maximum of six guys. Interviewer: So this little group of guys was dumped in the middle of the jungle someplace. How long would you stay out? Three or four days Interviewer: Did you see anything during that time? Did anything happen? Always, always, I mean you‘re sitting along a trail, camouflaged in, I mean it‘s just— yeah, and that‘s what you do and you‘d only go out every six weeks because—you‘d come back in and you‘d get all cleaned up, shave and shower, and the whole nine yards and that was it, you‘d start preparing for the next mission. Interviewer: People have—you hear a lot about, through the Ho Chi Minh Trail you have-- the idea might be, you might have a single little narrow trail through the jungle or something. Is that what it was or was it a wide road or what? A road, a road, it was a dirt road. 42:01 I mean, it was wide, but it was in the jungle and stuff and it was really hard to see it from above, from the air, but it‘s—they‘re moving, I mean, they‘re moving heavy equipment down through there, they‘re moving tanks down through there, trucks, I mean, it‘s-Interviewer: So, you got a lot of business? Oh yes, definitely Interviewer: Would they, the Vietnamese, as they’re moving up and down, would they make any effort to patrol into the jungle a little bit and look around for you? Oh yeah, they‘re always looking around for you because they know they‘re being spied on, they just don‘t know where you‘re at, you know, provided you have done a very good job of camouflaging. I mean, they would drop you in—we didn‘t drop in close, they 20 �would fly us out there in helicopters and drop us into the jungle, and we might be ten thousand meters away and we‘d have to hike these ten thousand meters, these ten clicks, into the area where we‘re actually going to set up, so they knew that we were in the area, but they just didn‘t know where in the area. 43:04 I mean, they might drop us in here, and we‘d hike off in this direction or maybe here and hike us out there, or come right straight in. They just knew we were there, they just didn‘t know where, and it behooved us to make sure that we were camouflaged well enough. That was part of the reason they wanted us to smell like them. Therefore, we ate the same food they did, and the whole nine yards. You didn‘t smoke or nothing, I mean it was-Interviewer: Now, did you have a radio? Did you report back or did you just record or write down what you saw, or just remember it? No identification, no communication Interviewer: So, you just kept the information in your head? Yes, we had a pre-set point where they would come to pick us up and the date and time, you know, they‘d pick us up at 2:00 o‘clock in the afternoon on such and such a day at such and such a point. 44:03 And they would already have it pre-set that you would be there, and to identify that you were there, you would have a smoke grenade that you would pop and they would know that it would be a purple smoke, or a red smoke, or a yellow smoke, and also they would know that you were there and that would—and they would fly over there and they would drop the ropes down and they‘d yank you out of there. Interviewer: did you worry whether or not you were going to get there on time or at the right time? Did you have somebody go— 21 �Yeah, but you made sure that you were going to be there. You might extract yourself from where you‘re at a day ahead of time, so that you would be there. I mean, you‘re going to make sure you‘re there, one way or another. But if you‘re captured the government would have no knowledge that you were there. There was nothing, I mean you didn‘t—you had captured enemy weaponry that you used. 45:04 The only thing that identified you as not being Vietnamese is your skin, I mean you‘re not short with black hair. Interviewer: So, one of those trips was enough for you? One was enough and that‘s when I transferred to the Charlie Company 2d Battalion, 1st Infantry, 196th [Brigade] 23rd Division, Tam Ky. Interviewer: Now, was it sort of common for people to kind of get, the situation you were in, do you think other people were doing the same thing? Thinking, “Oh my God, what have I gotten into?” Yeah, there was and that‘s why they were always looking for people that would volunteer, ―I want to try that‖, you know. There were several guys that didn‘t make it through the training. The training that they put you through was just—I mean it was really, really tough. You never knew what time of night, or day or night, they were going to come and get you and go out and do training. Teach you to do repelling and stuff. 46:00 We actually at that point—we had to be totally self-sufficient if there was medical care and stuff needed. We had to learn by actually working and practicing on other trainees, how to put in IV‘s. We were everything, we had to learn to do it all, and in the final training stuff they would actually take you out over the top of the South China Sea in a helicopter and before they actually started letting, repelling you out over land, 22 �they‘d take you out over the ocean, the South China Sea, and you would repel out of the helicopters into the water, and slide down ropes. The reason they did this, in case you‘ve messed up they wanted you to have something that was a little bit softer to land on than the ground, and believe me, the water‘s not that soft, well it is if you‘re not too far up. Interviewer: So, now you make a switch. Now, what sort of a reception, or whatever, do you get when you come and you go to the 196th Brigade and then get assigned, how does that play out? 47:09 I was just another new sergeant with the company. I was assigned to a platoon and just moved on. Interviewer: Was the platoon at the base camp where you first came in or did they move you out? No, they were actually out in the jungle and when they went on a resupply mission they flew me out. I jumped out with the cases of C rations, laundry and mail, ―Here I am‖. I got assigned to a unit there, to a platoon, and to a squad and they referred to me as, what is called the FNG, and we‘ll leave that at what it is. Interviewer: He’s the new guy, the NG part. Yes, and I basically for the first three weeks, even though I was the sergeant and should have been in control, the spec 4, who was the highest ranking person there, was actually running the show for the first two or three weeks until they got to know me and what was going on etc. 48:15 That was fine with me because I needed to get to know these guys too and what was going on with them. Interviewer: Was that what was recommended to you when you got assigned to a squad? Let them show you first? 23 �Yes, absolutely, absolutely, trust the guys, who have been there, you know. Follow their lead, listen to what they have to say, do what they tell you to do, and after two or three weeks you can start interjecting and working yourself in, and the Lieutenant, the platoon leader and stuff, come in and tell the guys, ―Ok, it‘s time for Sergeant Mann to take over, he‘s been here, he‘s learned all the ropes etc., and we‘ll move on from there‖. So, that can be very interesting because there you are, they don‘t know your background, and as far as they‘re concerned—I told them, I said, ―look, I‘m not new in country, I just didn‘t get off the plane yesterday, I‘ve been here for a couple of months, I‘ve been with the Ranger unit and stuff, I‘ve been out and I‘m a little familiar with it‖. 49:17 That kind of eased their concerns a little bit, but still at the same token, until I‘m there for a while and been on a few short little ops and stuff with them, they are going to be rather reticent about saying, ―well, were going to trust him‖, and do what—and it worked out. Interviewer: So, you were with—was the area you were operating in mostly jungle? It was—actually, where we were at was at when I first started, because I was in LZ Hawk Hill, which is just outside of Tam Ky, and that was mostly lowlands and farmlands and stuff right in there. Then we went on the first major, actual operation we went on, was we flew our whole organization out of Tam Ky to a little place called Cam Duc. 50:07 It was about three or four thousand meters from the Laotian boarder, it was fairly well established forward fire base. Several mountains peaks around that had different units and stuff on top of them. There was a runway, so you could fly airplanes in. During the Tet offensive of 1968 it was overrun, in 1970 we went back in, and for all intents and purposes, took it back. We had one casualty upon going in there and taking it back, the one casualty was a friendly fire casualty and fortunately he was not killed, he was just 24 �wounded. But, while we were there we had—we were there about two months before we moved out of that area again. 51:01 We did several patrols out in there and during that particular point in time we had several people killed, several people injured, wounded, we were constantly attacked by the rockets or mortar fire from the mountains. It was not a pleasant time. Interviewer: I want to go back briefly to the first stint in the area around Tam Ky, when you were in that kind of an area you were patrolling, was that an area with much enemy activity or was it fairly quiet? It was fairly quiet; it was fairly quiet in that general area. I mean, the fire base actually bordered, the fence actually pulled right up to the back side of the village. It was really, it kind of reminded you of a larger version of M.A.S.H. I mean, it was just this huge, huge area on a little hilltop like out there with hundreds of men. 52:01 There were all different types of units there, there was a Cav unit, there were infantry units, I mean there is actually a M.A.S.H. unit there. Helicopter pads, resupply storage and there‘s a NCO club, there‘s an OCS club, there‘s an EM club, enlisted men‘s club, so, I mean they got the bars up there. The NCO club was a little unusual because right outside of it sat a 155 Howitzer Battery. Christmas Eve, sitting there was a little rough because they got a fire mission and they‘re sitting there shooting right over the top of the building, so every time they would shoot off a battery of six guns, you‘d grab your bottle of pop, or whatever, to keep it from bouncing off on the floor. But it was—you had, you had, guard bunkers and stuff all around it and concertina wire and it was set up pretty good and it was patrolled quite well. 53:06 Occasionally we would get rockets or something that would be fired in, but they could take the dog gone mortars and they could sit out there two miles away 25 �and pop mortar rounds in at you, you know. They‘re not very accurate because they don‘t really use site sticks or anything like that, they just got a plate and a tube there and they sit and say, ―It looks pretty good here‖, and drop one in and that‘s the way they would sight them. Interviewer: They hadn’t really registered the targets well enough to really hit things, it’s more harassing fire? Well, they didn‘t have sight sticks or anything like that, so they really couldn‘t –I mean they‘d set a dog gone plate—and all they had was just a plate and a tube, and the mortars. They just would chuck them out there from anywhere they could. They were just harassing you, they never did hit anything. We did have an attempted sapper attack one night when they tried to sneak in and blow up the concertina wire and one thing and another with satchel charges and stuff, but they didn‘t make it. 54:04 Not that they couldn‘t have, they probably could have if they hadn‘t been caught. Interviewer: People on guard were doing their job that night. Exactly, exactly Interviewer: All right, the patrols you made out of there, were those mainly just short one day things? Yeah, usually that‘s all we did. We‘d—they would say, ―We need you to go out and check this area‖, and we‘d load in the helicopters and they would fly us out and set down and we‘d jump out and we‘d check the area out and they‘d come back and pick us up and we‘d fly back in, you know. Interviewer: Did you run into anything? Usually not, just locals 26 �Interviewer: In general, how did the civilian population behave toward you? They were afraid of us to a degree. It depended on how you treated them, you know. If you treated—most of the civilian population that were out there, I mean these people are peasants, they live in grass shacks. 55:01 Grass and bamboo, I mean, and they literally work from sun up to sun down to prepare enough food to feed themselves once a day. I mean, literally work all day long to prepare food to feed themselves once a day. If you go into their village, the area where they‘re at there, and start harassing them and taking stuff away from them, eating their food that they‘ve been cooking, and worked on all day long, you‘re in trouble. I should have brought some pictures up to show you, because I have pictures of some of the villagers and stuff when we were in there. I mean the young kids and stuff; they‘re all coming up to you and wanting this and wanting that etc. and they would, if you gave them some of your C rations and stuff, they would ask you to share a meal with them because you had given them something. It just depended upon what kind of an attitude you had and how you treated them. 56:06 Basically, what we were looking for most of the time when we would go into these villages is caches of stuff that the so called NVA tax collectors that are out there forcing these people to—I think they were actually more afraid of the NVA than they were of us. Because, I mean the NVA would really treat them quite shabbily. We would round everybody up in the village and get them into a central area and I worked, I had what was called a ―Luc Long scout‖, or a Kit Carson Scout, that was Vietnamese that had been captured and was working with me. Therefore, I wanted to speak some Vietnamese, he some English and between the two of us we could do some interviewing and stuff with these individuals. I 27 �would like to find out someday where he‘s at and what happened to him. Interviewer: So, you’re trying to gather information? Basically that‘s what we were doing. Basically we‘ll out there, a combination of a pacification and information, that‘s what we‘re doing generally. 57:10 Sometimes it didn‘t work out that way, but most of the time that‘s what we were doing just patrolling and checking and trying to gather information. Interviewer: Now, was this in an area where you had to worry about booby traps and that sort of thing? Always, always, always, it didn‘t matter where you were at; you had to watch for booby traps. You could kind of—you could kind of sit back and watch the indigenous personnel that were there, the local villagers and stuff, and you‘d watch and look to see where they go, and see what trails and stuff, what rice paddies and dykes and stuff they walk on and which ones they don‘t walk on. You don‘t want to walk on the ones that they don‘t walk on because they‘re booby trapped and they won‘t walk on them. Interviewer: Now, did your unit trip any booby traps while you were with them? Yes, yes Interviewer: What sort of devices were they as far as you can tell? 58:04 Anything, anything, bungee pits, little pits like this, they would be no bigger than this with little bungee stakes in them and you walk through and step forward and step down in it and it breaks loose and your foot goes down and these bamboo stakes run through your foot, and they treated these bamboo stakes quite well. They would actually take them and they would put them in the fire until they got nice and brittle and hard and everything, and then they would dip them in feces and set them up there. Or they would 28 �have—we ran across one, and we got quite fortunate with it. I walked point a lot of the time while I was there, looking specifically, and I saw a trip wire run across and they actually had taken a captured, one of our baseball grenades, and had set it up with a wire across the trail. They had it camouflaged quite well, not well enough, but quite well, and what it was set up for, you come through and you trip that. 59:02 Well, what they do— grenades are set up with a time delay fuse on them and they take and unscrew them and cut the fuse off and screw it back in, so the minute the pin is pulled the spoon comes up, hits it and it goes off instantly. We happened to see it and didn‘t trip it. Yeah, all kinds of booby traps, anything and everything you could possibly think of, I mean these people are very, very, very adept at using anything to make a weapon out of. Whatever is available, whatever they have, it‘s just absolutely astounding. Interviewer: All right, and that was the relatively easy duty before you go up to the Cam Duc strip? The Cam Duc strip, that was not a good trip Interviewer: Did you have kind of a routine or pattern of activity while you were up there? Did you go out on patrol or do certain things? 00:02 Yes Interviewer: How did that play out? They would rotate it throughout the units that were there and send us out in different areas. Most of the time, what we would do, we would fly. They would take us out and they would fly us into an area and we‘d jump out of the choppers, patrol the area, and later that afternoon they‘d pick us up and bring us back to the base camp area and then a 29 �few days later we‘d go back out on another one. It didn‘t always work that way, but most of the time it did. Interviewer: Did you encounter many North Vietnamese while you were out there or were you mostly just shot at with mortars? The vast majority—I only had one—well, I had two operations I went on where we actually encountered enemy combatants, mostly North Vietnamese individuals. The one was, they flew us in to do some reconnaissance, fly us in in the morning, fly in and pick us up in the afternoon, fly us back out. Had a cold LZ, had a cold landing zone, no enemy combatants or troops in the area, fly us in, so therefore we didn‘t take a lot of stuff with us, which was a mistake because as it turned out it wasn‘t what the intelligence people had thought it was. 1:13 Instead of flying into this area where there wasn‘t supposed to be any enemy troops etc. and several days later we found out they had mistakenly dropped us into what they referred to as a North Vietnamese battalion base camp. Interviewer: So, what happened when you got there? We had to shoot our way in, three days later we shot our way out and we had six guys wounded, and one guy killed. The platoon leader, the Lieutenant, was critically wounded, and I had been standing not any farther sway than I am from you, talking to him, and I turned around and stepped away and in just a matter of a fraction of a second after I walked away, he was shot from behind and shot through the shoulder. 2:01 Had I been standing there, I‘d have been hit too. Interviewer: Now, was this just a platoon size operation you were on? Yes, a platoon size operation. 30 �Interviewer: How many men do you think were in the platoon when you went in? Twenty-seven, there were twenty-seven of us and platoon strength normally is forty, and we very seldom had forty men. The highest I can think of that we had was thirty-three. Interviewer: How low would you get? The lowest we got was down to six of us, not even squad strength. Interviewer: So, you were out there for three days? Yeah Interviewer: What happens at night? We set up—we set up at night with a night defensive perimeter, and with the mortars and Howitzers, set up a firing around us. We had pre-designated areas, we called them fire mission Battle Zulu, fire mission whatever. 3:05 You know, different, preset places for them to shoot rounds out throughout the entire night so the enemy wouldn‘t know where , and they would set this stuff off all night long to help keep us from being snuck up on at night and attacked. Interviewer: Did that work? I‘m here and I was never captured, so-Interviewer: Did they still try to come up and attack you anyway? No, because—well I don‘t know because I have no idea, we have no idea if they did or not. The next day we tried to move to a different area and they kept us pinned down in the daylight hours, and the third day, when we actually were able to finally get out of there, we had some fire missions that we had called in and they really didn‘t want to do them because of the proximity of where the enemy was and where we were at, they didn‘t really like to do this. 4:17 But, they used the F4 jets and came in with two hundred and 31 �fifty pound bombs and there 20mm Falcon cannons and we popped the smoke stuff so they‘d know where we were at and they started dropping them and these planes flew so low overhead that you could actually roll up and look and actually watch the hooks on the hangers open up on the bombs when they would release them. And you‘d cover up because when they‘d go off you‘d get pelted with chunks of dirt and everything else when they were blowing up because they were dropping them that close. They don‘t like to drop it that close, but we didn‘t have any choice, we‘re on this side of a valley and on this side of the valley there‘s a river running through there, and we‘re on this side of the river and on the other side is this NVA and we‘re pinned down, we can‘t get out of there. 5:12 Interviewer: Were they blasting a path for you to get out or were they just trying to hit the enemy? Well, they were trying to keep; you know, scatter them out of there, get them out of there so we could actually then move away and then get to an area where they could extract us. Interviewer: Did you still have your casualties with you at that point? Were you still carrying your casualties? The casualties were already gone, they had been medevac‘d out, medevac‘d out. In fact, we had a thing that surprised me was--and they wanted us to wear flak vests and helmets, come on people, it‘s a hundred and twenty three degrees out there with ninety-nine percent humidity. We‘re going to wear a steel helmet and a flak vest, I don‘t think so. It‘s just like—it was bad enough and like I said, I was down to a hundred and forty-five pounds when I came home, give me a break, you know. 6:04 My pack weighs two pounds more than I do and if you put this on there I‘m going to melt away to absolutely 32 �nothing, I‘ll be a hundred and thirty pounds and nothing but bone. But, the last guy that we had wounded, when they came in, the medevac chopper got shot up getting in so, they left. We had the Major, and I can‘t remember his name, but the Major was flying around in his Loach, buzzing around there kind of watching things. He actually flew in, told his pilot, ―take me down there, we‘ll get this guy out of there‖. This guy had been hit in both arms and through his chest. Well, the medic we had, had popped him with two syrettes of Morphine, so he wasn‘t feeling anything, but he‘d been wounded with a tissue wound through this arm, a tissue wound through this other arm. He‘d been carrying a machine gun and the bullet went through this arm, hit the sternum, came through the sternum, out the ribcage, and through the other arm. 7:04 It didn‘t hit bones on either one of his arms, just muscle, and he actually helped pull himself up into the chopper. The Major comes down there and the Major jumps out of the chopper and they load this guy up there and the Major tells the pilot, ―go‖, and he stays with us‖. The Major was kind of an interesting individual, fire engine red hair, a handlebar mustache, bush hat, sleeves cut out of his tee shirt and his pants rolled up above his knees. This is the Major. Interviewer: About how old was he do you think? Thirty-five Interviewer: Ok, had he led men in combat before? Oh yes, oh yes Interviewer: So he wasn’t some guy who trained as a staff officer and came over after six months? Oh no, he came up through the ranks, he‘d moved up and he was an interesting individual. 33 �Interviewer: Did he stay with you any longer? 8:03 He stayed with us until we got--until the very next day when we got out of there, he stayed right with us like, ―ok, you‘ll do‖. He was an interesting individual. The only individual that I—and I had been smart enough that I had packed some food in my pouches in my pants and stuff because I didn‘t know how long before I would be able to eat. If we‘re out here too long I don‘t want to have to eat grubs and stuff, and he asked, ―Anybody got any food?‖ I said, ―Yeah, I do if you want it‖, and he said, ―What have you got?‖ I said, ―Ham and eggs if you want it‖, and he went kind of—and said, ―Ok‖. The ham and eggs was not the favorite item in the C ration foods, but I liked them. Most of the guys didn‘t and that‘s why I usually carried them and I‘d have plenty because they‘d throw them out, they didn‘t want them. Interviewer: You mentioned when you went out on this mission, the expectation was that it wouldn’t be a big deal, so you didn’t bring a lot of supplies. Did you run low on ammunition and other things while you were out there? Yes we did, and they actually flew ammunition in and dropped it out of the choppers to us. 9:03 You wanted to make sure you weren‘t standing underneath it either because if a case of M16 ammunition coming out of the door of a helicopter can hurt you. Interviewer: Was that the probably the most intense firefight that you got into, or did you have another one that was similar? We had one more while we were there and it was really intense. We were being harassed by mortar fire and my platoon took the duty to go up into the mountain and find them. Over a period of several hours, working our way up through, we came across a guard that was sent out and we dispatched him. We kept moving on around and my squad had been 34 �walking point. They would take and rotate you through, you‘d have the point squad, the middle squad and you would have the rear squad and you would rotate back. 10:02 The point squad would rotate to the back and pick up the rear guard and then the middle squad would take up and then you would just move that way and keep everybody fresh. We had just—it was not two minutes since we changed, and we came around the corner there, and my squad has the rear, and we came around this ridge, well, it was not really a ridge, it was kind of a crest of this hillside on the trail and they walked into a booby trap. It wasn‘t really a booby trap, actually it was a Claymore mine that was set up and they detonated it on the guys. That‘s when we went up—we went up with twenty-seven men on that mission and there were six of us that spent the rest of the night because everybody else was medevac‘d out because they had been wounded. Interviewer: If you were down to six why didn’t they just take out all of you? Or did they not tell you that? Because we were on a mission and everyone else had been wounded, and they had to be taken out. 11:01 They resupplied us with ammunition and stuff and then we stayed and we captured the tube. We got them, but it was very costly, a very expensive operation. Interviewer: Do you know how many were actually killed out of that group? Nobody died, nobody died Interviewer: Now, was it the mine that caused all the damage? Yup Interviewer: So, it wasn’t that you walked into an ambush of the conventional sort, so you weren’t in a fire fight at that point? 35 �Right, right—well, it was just—they were set up and they knew we were coming because we had already shot their guard, their outpost, so they knew we were there. They had the high ground and they just come after us, you know. We had several guys that were wounded by rifle fire and machine gun fire. Interviewer: Did they actually—were there men at the mortar tube or had they just disappeared and left that behind? 12:00 They disappeared and left that behind. They couldn‘t take it with them; carry it with them, because it was too heavy. Interviewer: How big of a mortar was it? Was it an 82? 81mm Interviewer: Was it an American 81 or a Soviet built 82? It was an 81, an American, captured American. It was just too heavy to run and take it with them through the jungle, so they just left it, but it‘s one of those things. Out of those six men, the six of us that were actually left and got out of there, I was the only one that stayed in country. The other five guys—I had—we had come back and it was a week or ten days later we were packing everything and getting ready to move everything out, and we were going to actually abandon that Cam Duc area. We had been attacked several times and you couldn‘t land air planes there because the runway had been bombed so heavily. We did have one air plane landed in there, an Australian airplane came in there that had been shot up quite badly, and they came in and they made a crash landing in there and we guarded that until they could come in and extract the aircraft and stuff out of there. 13:12 We had great big JP4 bladders of fuel out there and the enemy kept trying to hit those. Unfortunately we were attacked one night and one of our guys set one of 36 �them on fire with a hand flare. He shot the hand flare and instead of shooting it straight up, he got it on an angle like this and it landed right in the middle of it, burned a hole in it and set it on fire and burned up several thousand gallons of JP4, but ―oops‖ things happen you know. We were packing everything up several days later and getting ready to move out of that area and go back and work in a different area and I had my guys all assigned with the work to do and I‘m going, ―Well, here‘s a pile of trip flares laying here and I‘ll start packing them up and putting them in a crate‖, you know. 14:06 So, I‘m picking them up and one of them, the pin wasn‘t in all the way and it went off and burned my hand quite badly. While I‘m in the hospital, back in Tam Ky, the blisters in my had needed to be cleaned up and stuff, the other five guys in my platoon, were messed up quite badly. One guy was killed, John Melke, they had flown them out and they were at the firebase where they were going to set up and stuff, and they were moving the mortar platoon in there in a Chinook helicopter and had the ammunition hung underneath it in a sling and coming in an enemy combatant fired an RPG and hit the helicopter and it exploded the whole thing and one of the blades came down and caught all five of my guys. It killed John Melke and the other guys were quite severely injured. 15:04 Interviewer: So, you kind of got lucky with the trip flare. On several occasions I can say that I was very fortunate. I‘m a Christian and I believe in God and I know this, that God saved my life on more than one occasion. Interviewer: After that happens, how long had you been in Vietnam by then? Six or seven months Interviewer: Ok, now had you had any R&R or leave time by then? Twice 37 �Interviewer: Where did you go? Hawaii, twice, I went to Hawaii the week before Christmas and met my mother and dad and my fiancée there. Then I went back to Hawaii on a seven day leave over the spring break and I didn‘t meet anybody that week. I‘m still not married. Interviewer: One of the impressions I had, for the most part, was that the leaves to Hawaii were mostly assigned to guys who were married and they would send the unmarried ones other places. 16:09 You chose where you went, you chose, you had your choice. There was a difference between an R&R and a leave. An R&R as long as, you know, you could go wherever you wanted to go. You could go to Australia; you could go to Japan, or Taiwan or Hawaii. I chose Hawaii and it was fine, but then again I was meeting my parents and my fiancée there. When it came time to go on a seven day leave, I wanted to go to Australia, but the flight was already booked and they said I couldn‘t go there, so I asked what was available and they said, ―Hawaii‖, and I said, ―all right‖, so I went to Hawaii again, and I enjoyed myself and had a lot of fun, both times. Interviewer: But you still got several months left in that tour now at that point, so once you get out of the hospital where do you go? 17:11 I stayed, well I say out of the hospital, I was only in the hospital overnight getting that hand fixed, you know, but it‘s all bandaged up and everything, so I‘m working, I do guard duty for six weeks while my hand is getting rehabbed, so I‘m in the base camp stuff and they said, ―As long as you‘re going to be here, we need you—we need to have you doing something‖, so what I did was I worked as the sergeant of the guard, which means I would go out—I‘d—they would drive me around the perimeter and night and 38 �stuff, you know, and I‘d check on the different posts, so that‘s what I would do, or I‘d work in the supply room, or work in the mail room, or work as the—I can‘t even remember what the person is called now, but basically sits in the office at night to answer the phone or whatever. 18:07 That‘s what I would do until they finally got around and part of the deal was, when I got back from Hawaii at Christmas time there in December, is they held me down at Cam Ranh Bay and that‘s where I picked up my Kit Carson Scout, was down there and I went with him for several days. I was fortunate to be in the rear area at that particular time. I got back and was able to go to Da Nang and see the Bob Hope Christmas show, which was quite interesting. I had plenty of pictures of that and they all got stolen on the way home. Somebody broke into my bags and stuff on the flight back from Vietnam to the states and I lost all kinds of stuff that I had, but oh well, ―easy come, easy go‖. It wasn‘t so easy coming. Interviewer: When you spent six weeks at the base camp, did you want to go back to your unit, or would you rather just stay back in the base camp? 19:02 I‘d rather have stayed at the base camp, it‘s quieter and you have more people around you, but hey, you do what you have to do. I finally ended up though, when I was back over there, I went back out and we were walking in a low land area, and I don‘t know if you know what ―Elephant Grass‘ is? Very tall stuff, very big heavy stuff, and I‘m walking forward and I prefer to walk point, and I don‘t know why, but I guess I just didn‘t have that much confidence in the other people. I took a step forward and I put my foot down and I put my foot down on air and I figured I was a dead man right then. Instead of that, I ended up, I went into this foxhole that had been filled back in and I went in and I twisted and landed with my back on top of my pack with my nose touching my 39 �knees and messed my back up quite badly. 20:01 When they were finally able to get me up out of the hole they brought a chopper in and they brought me into Da Nang, flew me in there and put me in traction and stuff there and transferred me from there to Cam Ranh Bay to the convalescent center where I spent two months down there in rehab and stuff, and then they flew me back to Tam Ky at which point in time they were in the process of moving us all up to the Da Nang area and from Chu Lai, which was the 191st headquarters, and they were transferring us all up to Da Nang, and when I got up to Da Nang they put me in charge of the resupply and mail room. At that point in time, every day of the week I would fly into the DMZ, in a helicopter, delivering mail, clothes, and food. 21:02 I was on duty seven days a week making a helicopter flight into the jungle areas and it was not fun. Interviewer: So, you would get shot at as you were doing that? Sometimes, sometimes you did and sometimes you didn‘t. Interviewer: Did they ever have you take anything back out, injured men or bodies, or anything like that? No, because if there were things like that, if people were injured, that was with medevac choppers and stuff, that was done immediately. I‘d fly in--we‘d fly in and they‘d set up a secure perimeter, we‘d land the helicopters, we‘d take everything out, all the clean clothes, the mail, the food, that was all unloaded off the chopper and any outgoing mail was picked up, all the dirty clothes and stuff were picked up, and that was all loaded back on the chopper and was taken back. Interviewer: Now, you were serving over there at a time when they were getting into what they called the Vietnamization process. They were drawing down the size 40 �of American forces and turning things over to the Vietnamese. 22:07 What did you observe of that, or to what extent did you realize that we were pulling back, or taking men out? Well, you know, I mean I was over there in 1970 and 1971, and as far as the drawing down and the more Vietnamization stuff didn‘t really—I mean we‘re just in the beginnings of it and we found a lot of times that the South Vietnamese—I don‘t know, I guess they just didn‘t—to me they didn‘t have the will to want to be able go over there and take over. They wanted the ROK, the Australians, the Americans and stuff, to do this for them. They didn‘t really want to take the responsibility, and by the time we finally got out of there it was—we can understand why, they really didn‘t have the heart to go in there and not come under a communist rule. 23:16 I guess they had been—we have to stop and understand that these people had been fighting for decades. I mean, the French had been in there for crying out loud, and they got their tails whipped, you know. It‘s almost the situation we‘re in with Afghanistan. Come on, the United States thinks we can come in here and do something after the Russians got their tails beaten and left? It‘s really not much difference there, you know. The Vietnamese, they just—they had been at war so long that they were getting disheartened and they just didn‘t care anymore. Interviewer: Now, did you see much of the South Vietnamese military, aside from the occasional scout that was with you? No, I really didn‘t, I really didn‘t. The ones that I was impressed with were the ROC Interviewer: It’s the ROK, the Koreans? 24:03 Yeah, the Rocket soldiers, the Koreans. These boys didn‘t---they were amazing. I‘d never seen anything like them before in my life. 41 �Interviewer: What struck you about them in particular? Fearless, absolutely fearless, and I‘d say, ―Are you crazy? There are six of you and you‘re going to go after a machine gun nest?‖ It didn‘t matter, I mean they just were tough guys, tough guys and just absolutely fearless. Interviewer: You got to serve alongside of them at some point? Yeah, I worked with them a couple times. A couple of times I had the opportunity to work with them. Unbelievable individuals, just-Interviewer: They had been more dedicated to the anti-communist cause for a good reason and that’s why. I think so, I think so, and they still are. I mean with Korea being divided, they still are. 25:01 Interviewer: How would you describe the morale of the company or platoon that you were serving in? Poor, poor, there was a very strong—I mean a strong division racially. The African American members of the unit would keep themselves away from everybody else and wouldn‘t associate with or participate with or even, you know—everybody else that was in the unit seemed to work well together, although we did have two of my real good friends, Robert Taylor, a black guy from Texas, and Fred Contreras, a Mexican American from Modesto, California, two wonderful individuals. 26:10 I‘ve looked up Fred a couple of times when I‘ve been out in California, but I‘ve never been able to find Rob Taylor. Rob Taylor was our barber and he was just—the only thing black about Rob was his skin. I mean, this guy wore a cowboy hat, a bandana tied around his neck, and he was a black cowboy from Texas. He was a wonderful individual. 42 �Interviewer: When you actually went out on patrol. Did the racial division hold up? At that point no, because everybody knew that you had to count on, and depend on the other members to survive, and if you didn‘t have cohesion there, then it was—but when it was in the rear area and stuff, everybody just seemed to divide off into their own little groups. Interviewer: Now, were there fights or things like that? 27:01 No, no fights—it was a situation where your authority as a sergeant, or whatever, was ignored. You‘d be in the rear area and stuff and say, well, I-- corporal so and so or private so and so, or whatever, and actually, I got to the point where I would just say, ―Jim I need you to do this‖, and he would say, ―do it yourself‖, ―excuse me‖, you know. I said, ―Look, we have things we have to do and I need you to do this, and I‘d like you to do this as a member of this unit. I don‘t want to sit here and have to give you a direct order to do it‖, and they would say, ―Well, alright‖, and they would do it. I said, ―I have things that I have to do that I don‘t like, and you have things that you need to do that you don‘t like, so we‘re both going to have to do things that we don‘t want to do‖. Interviewer: So, there was a sense that you had a job to do and just go and do it still? 28:03 Right and I don‘t blame them because there were jobs that I would assign them to do that I didn‘t want to do myself. Because I was a sergeant I didn‘t have to do them, and basically one of them is cleaning the latrine. I don‘t know if you understand what they set up there, you didn‘t dig pits, they used fifty-five gallon steel drums about this tall, that were cut off, and when they got to a certain point of being full they would be dragged out and they would actually mix diesel fuel in them and burn it, and that was a very 43 �distasteful, nasty job. Unfortunately it was a job that had to be done and when it came your turn to do it, you had to do it. Being the sergeant, I wasn‘t obviously going to do it. I‘m going to assign somebody to do that job because I have other things that I have to do. 29:02 Interviewer: Were their people in the unit that were using drugs at that point? You know, I can‘t say that there were, I‘m sure there was, I never personally saw it, so— I‘m quite sure there was, without a doubt, but I never saw it myself. Most of the time—I would say, most of the time the vast majority of the guys would go into the clubs and they‘d sit there and drink beer or hard liquor, or whatever was available. You couldn‘t – at the EM club; you couldn‘t get anything but beer in there. At the NCO club or the OCS, you could get hard liquor in there. Interviewer: So they would drink and smoke cigarettes, but not necessarily much more than that? Not that I ever observed, I never saw them—I never saw anybody using any kind of drugs, you know. 30:06 Interviewer: Now, within the company or battalion, or the area you knew something about, were there attempted officer fragging’s or things like that? Yes Interviewer: What did you learn about those? When I say attempted—threats, it would be a situation where they would wire the pin tight into the grenade and tie a toe tag on it and write on it, ―Next time we keep the pin‖, and throw it into the offers barracks or whatever, you know their quarters. That happened, that happened on occasion when we‘d have an officer that was a real 44 �hardnosed individual, they would do that. I only know about it happening twice within my unit. Interviewer: Would it happen to people who were effective officers who would still take the men in the field, but treat them better? 31:04 Usually what happened is that officer would be transferred to some other unit because at that point in time it was very aware of the fact that the officer‘s ability to be a leader and stuff was compromised and they knew that they couldn‘t—that he wouldn‘t be able to work there and work with the men. They would transfer him somewhere else and bring in a new officer. Interviewer: If an officer came in and did a reasonable job then that would be accepted? I mean, the officers, and they understood, more often than—we had three ―Butter Bar‖ Lieutenants in our unit and as sergeant and stuff, we‘d sit down and we‘d tell them, ―Look, I understand you‘re an officer and we need to treat you as an officer, but we need to also tell you, and remind you, that you are new here and have never been in a combat situation and you need to listen to us, as the sergeants. 32:18 When something is calling, you need to come to us and say, ―we need to do this‖ and so we will then in turn tell you, ―well, we really don‘t want to do it this way, we need to do it this way etc. and you really need listen to us until you have enough time in country where you actually will be where the guys will trust you and understand‖. And the same way with us, I said, ―When we first got here, as sergeants and stuff, we had to count on, depend on, and listen to, the private because he had been here and he knows what he‘s talking about‖. I said, ―As far as being an officer, or whatever, don‘t wear your bars on your uniform or on your 45 �hat or whatever. We know you‘re the Lieutenant, but do not expect us to salute you because we won‘t do it unless you want to die—we don‘t want to die. 33:14 We‘re not disrespecting you as an officer, if were in the rear area we‘ll have no problem saluting you, but if we‘re out here in the jungle, saluting, as proper military protocol, is not going to happen. We want to live, we want to survive‖. Interviewer: Were the lieutenants smart enough to listen to you? Yes, yes they were, they were. It‘s not that the enemy couldn‘t tell who was in charge because they could. Just because of the fact that different individuals would come up to them when they were talking and then they would turn and go—they could tell at that point in time who was who, who were the higher ranking individuals. Interviewer: Certainly they would probably have an RTO along with them wouldn’t they? 34:02 Well, yeah--right Interviewer: Another way of spotting them, who’s talking to the guy with the radio? Yeah, but see—if he had a radio, and I as a sergeant had an RTO, I was a squad leader and each squad leader had an RTO—so, you know, it kind of confused the enemy just a little bit because I‘m walking point and I have my machine gun walking second and my RTO is third—so these poor guys, it wasn‘t normal protocol like that. Usually you got a point man, a machine gun and you and the RTO back in there, you know, and they kind of—because I‘d mess them up, but I still had my radio right there close enough. Interviewer: So, was the mail delivery duty, was that the last assignment you had in Vietnam? 35:01 Yes, I did that for two months. 46 �Interviewer: Are there other things that kind of stand out in your mind about your time in Vietnam that we haven’t quite brought into the story yet? Not a great deal I guess, I just–I guess the one thing that really, really brought it to me was just the abject poverty of the vast majority of the population of the country. Unless you lived down in the southern section of Vietnam, down in the Saigon area, down in the delta area there, or lived in and around one of the smaller villages, Tam Ky, Chu Lai area, Da Nang, and cities like that, these people lived in total—real abject poverty. I mean, the family car was a Water Buffalo. 36:02 They had little bunkers built inside their bamboo and grass shacks that they lived in, that‘s where they would sleep at night. They had no electricity, no refrigeration, to go to the bathroom they would just go out and drop it off the side of a rice paddy dyke. I mean, that‘s what they had. Literally, I mean seriously, work sun up to sun down to gather enough stuff to prepare a meal. I mean, I‘d see the Vietnamese women out there—they‘d actually be out there working with big grass hoop tire like things working the rice, getting the chaff and stuff out of it. Cleaning it like that and then they would sit there with hand cranked millstone that they would take and pour little grains of rice into it and sit there and crank it, grind it, and make flour out of it, and then mix that flour with water and put it over the top of a kettle of boiling water, with like a nylon screen on it, and they would spread it out on there and steam that and make a large rice pancake like thing. 37:19 When it was steamed they would take it out and they would hang it over sticks, like a clothes drying rack to cool, and after it was cooled they would slice that into strips like for noodles, and then they would have fish, one of the other family members had gone out and caught fish, and they would cook the fish and make a fish gravy like, pour this over the noodles to warm them up and that‘s 47 �what they would have for dinner. They would literally work all day long. To irrigate, they would have two people out there and they‘d have a pole and a string and a hoop type thing or a bucket with strings on it and they would actually hand lift the water up and over out of the river into the dykes to fill the rice paddies with water. 38:07 They just—they would do this all day long, day after day, after day, just absolutely—these people, it‘s just unbelievable. I know now why they were skinny; they were living on virtually nothing. I mean, they had gardens and stuff, they‘re not going to eat the Water buffalo obviously, because that‘s the tractor, you know, the family car, the whole works. I absolutely amazed me to see a young Vietnamese child, probably seven or eight years old, with a little stick like this, and this monster Water Buffalo, and he‘s walking down a rice paddy dyke through there, and this kid is walking behind him with a stick keeping him moving. 39:01 I‘m thinking, ok, it‘s just so many different things—their religious beliefs and everything, it‘s just—I saw some rather –the first time I saw the areas I‘m thinking, ―What is this?‖ And there was actually a cemetery that was out there and the graves are round. They dig a round hole in the ground and actually bury the individuals standing up. Like, all right, just so many different thing, so many different things. Individuals living in and around the cities and stuff, the school children—people were actually going to school, they would have electricity there and stuff, and the children would be dressed in the—the girls would be dressed in long white silk pajama type gowns that they would wear, and the boys would be in black and white, but yet, the kids out in the jungle areas and stuff, out of the way, they didn‘t go to school, they had no schooling. 40:15 It was just totally amazing. We came across a, I don‘t know what, I don‘t know exactly what his religious beliefs were, he was a minister of some sort or a 48 �religious individual, a clergyman of some type, I don‘t know exactly what, but an individual, and he had a brick and mortar building, full of bullet hole, I mean you could see where all of the stucco type material on the outside was all just pock market with bullet holes and stuff. An older gentleman, I guess in his eighties, slept on a grass mat, and he invited us into his home for a drink. 41:06 Homemade ―hooch‖, obviously homemade ―hooch‖, and the Vietnamese version of ―white lighting‖. He poured about that much in a glass and six of us took a sip out of it and we still had almost that much in the glass, and he turns around to it, grabs the bottle and he pours himself about that much and he tilts it right back like that, drinks it all, and then he goes over and rolls the grass mat out on a concrete brick floor, and lays down on it and goes to sleep. That‘s what he‘s sleeping on, it like sleeping on this, I mean it wasn‘t even as soft as this carpet. I‘m thinking, ―What a life‖. I would like to go back to Vietnam, I‘m hoping to visit some day and see how it‘s changed and see how the people are doing. 42:08 It just absolutely amazes me sometime to see—and forty years later I‘m still not sure why we were there. Interviewer: Now, as you were getting in the last couple of months or weeks, or whatever, toward the end of your tour, you’re counting down the days before you left? Yes, you always did, I mean the guys would come in and I mean, you had a deros date, which is your rotation date going back and everybody, regardless if you just got there or you were getting close, was always counting down, and counting down, and counting down the days. The closer you got the more apprehensive you got, especially the individuals like myself, who were infantry and were out in the jungle, although the last couple of months I wasn‘t out in the jungle, but I was making these flights every day. 49 �43:04 And it‘s like, ―man, you know, I‘m a sitting duck out here‖. There‘s a pilot a co-pilot and myself and there‘s three of us in this helicopter, well, there was actually five of us because we had a door gunner on each side too, but it‘s just like, ―we‘re right out here in the wide open‖. You‘re counting the days down, you‘re counting the days down until you can actually come back in, especially the guys out in the jungle and stuff out there, they‘re counting the days down, you know, because they would get down within a couple of weeks until their rotation back, they would actually bring them back into the rear area and they wouldn‘t make them stay out in the jungle any longer. It was like, ―these guys are just getting too antsy and too nervous. We don‘t need them back there, we need them back here in the rear area where they can start to wind down a little bit and prepare now. That being said, they messed up on my rotation date back, and they actually pulled me back in off the chopper stuff, that detail, and closed me out of the battalion headquarters and stuff. 44:09 I actually had me out of there and down to Cam Ranh Bay twelve days early. So, I spent twelve days extra at Cam Ranh Bay waiting to get my flight back to the states. Interviewer: What did you do, just sit around? I‘d go to the NCO clubs at night and go to see floor shows or whatever. I did not—they had what were called manifest calls, and I did not, you do not miss a manifest call. You miss a manifest call and if your name is on that manifest list for your flight and you‘re not there to respond, they will give you an Article 15 and take money away from you. It didn‘t matter what time that manifest call was, it might happen at two o‘clock in the morning, it might happen at three o‘clock in the afternoon, you never know. 45:01 Just whenever a flight would come in that was off loaded and was a flight back to the states; 50 �you had to be able to catch that flight whenever your name came up. It‘s like, after several days you‘re getting almost like a Zombie because you‘re afraid to go to sleep for fear that you would sleep through it, so you tell the other guys and stuff, ―hey if they call for a manifest call, be sure you wake me up, I want to be there in case my name comes up‖. Yeah, you count the days down, you really do, I mean it just—the guys, they refer to their deros date, and the thing that was amazing was, we had a dog on the base and it was with our company, and you didn‘t find cats, it was very, very rare to find cats in Vietnam, they ate cats, cats were on the menu. Dogs, not so much, but they would still eat the dogs. 46:10 They didn‘t eat the cows, but they would eat the dogs and the cats. But we had this little dog and the dog‘s name was ―Deros‖, so yeah, you‘re always aware, you‘re always conscious, and the closer you get to your date to be rotated back the more aware you are of it and it‘s like ―I got fourteen days, I got twelve days. I got seven days‖, you know, I never really broke it down to the hour, but it was always on your mind, you know and you refer to it as ―getting short‖. The guys would make comments like, ―I‘m so short I can‘t even get my shoes on, I can‘t climb over into them‖. Interviewer: Wouldn’t that affect their performance in the field at all if they were getting short, would they do things differently? Yes it would because you become more cautious. The closer you got to the time that you were coming in out of the field, you got more tense, more nervous, much more cautious about things, not quite as carefree. 47:08 You could tell and you knew the guys that were—and therefore, as the sergeant, the guys that you had that were approaching there deros date, you would be more hesitant about sending them out on missions. More hesitant about saying, ―Jim, you and so and so are going to go out and set up on an 51 �ambush site tonight‖, and Jim said, ―You know I‘m going home in four days, I‘m rotating back to the rear in four days‖. Well, he didn‘t have to remind you of that, you were aware of that, so therefore you wouldn‘t—you‘d be more hesitant to put these individuals in more dangerous positions. Now, it they wanted to volunteer for it, fine. It was something that everybody was constantly aware of all the time. 48:04 Interviewer: The principle, the way the whole system worked was having everyone on their own individual calendar, rotating individuals in and out of units as replacements, the idea was that you would have a certain level of continuity in performance and that kind of thing, and better maintain the fighting quality of the units without burning out the soldiers. Did that actually work that way, or did that have as many negatives as positives? No, it actually worked for me. I mean, in our unit it seemed to work. You always had—I mean you had new people coming in, the new blood coming in, not attuned to what was going on, but you had the other individuals who had been there and could take the new people under their wing and say, ―Hey look, this is the way we—I know what they taught back in NCO school, or what they taught you back in your AIT and stuff, but this is the way we really do it. Take what you learned there and keep it in mind, but this is the actual way that it gets done‖. 49:09 If the new people would pay attention to that and follow what the old guys do and that have been there for a while, your chances of surviving and coming home are a lot better. Quite often if you did what you were trained to do, it will get you in trouble and could possible get you killed, I mean that‘s just the way it was. 52 �Interviewer: It depends in part, probably then on how willing the older guys are to actually extend some help to the new ones coming in. The older guys were very willing, and the reason for it was because they didn‘t want this new guy out there getting them killed from their stupid moves. 50:00 So, the guys that had been there were very willing, very willing, at least the guys in my unit, to take the new guys under their wing and say, ―Look now, I know this is what you‘ve been taught, but this is the way it‘s been done, and you will do it the way we tell you to do it because we want to go home, and we don‘t want to go home in a body bag. We want to be able to go home and see our kids, we want to be able to go home and see our wives, our moms, and our dads, you know, and we don‘t need you, as the new guy out here messing up and getting one of us killed. If you want to get yourself killed, go for it, but don‘t make me do it, don‘t make me get killed because you want to do something different‖. So, the new guys—and the new guys, quite often, would sit back, and they‘re just, they come out there and they‘re just—and they‘re—they look like a deer in the forest, you know, I mean they‘re scared, they are, they‘re scared to death. I‘m not saying that the older guys weren‘t either, they were too, but it was just that they had been there long enough to hide it better. 51:05 They had learned from the old guys that had been there before them, and they had been, more often than not, so called ―bloodied‖, and they had actually been under fire. The new guys are just like—I mean they are, they‘re just lost, they don‘t know what‘s going on, so the old guys would help them out, and in a few weeks‘ time they were just like—and of course the first time they get fired on then that would be it. I‘ll never forget, I mean I‘ll never forget, a year of training, a year of training, and obviously it paid off because I‘m here. I did not consciously think that I could ever in my 53 �life fire a weapon at another human being. 52:04 The first time I got fired on, I‘m out there, I‘m on the ground, and the guns not firing, and without even realizing it, I had emptied a whole magazine of ammunition not even knowing that I had pulled the trigger. I‘m saying, ―It‘s not working, it‘s not working, oh, ok, that‘s why it‘s not working‖, and I had fired off a full magazine of ammunition and never even realized I had pulled the trigger. So, obviously the training paid off. Interviewer: How long was it before you felt like you had, at least, some idea of what you were doing out in the field? That you’re going out with the unit initially and following them around, was it by the time they said, “Ok, now you’re in charge of the squad”, were you ready to do that, or were you still kind of wondering about that? I wasn‘t ready to do it, but it was there and I had to. 53:03 When I took over, I took over the job as a Lieutenant within a matter of weeks because the Lieutenant had been wounded and we had nobody else. I mean, I, as an E5 sergeant, I was the highest ranking individual in the platoon. I mean, it‘s just one of those things, it‘s there and so ―Ok, so now I am the platoon leader. I‘m not a squad leader; I‘m not the platoon sergeant. I am the platoon leader until they get somebody new in from the rear area to take over‖. You just do it, and I guess that takes in part with all the training. I mean, I‘d had a year of training before I went over and it was just, you know, and then I‘d had a few months there of time, and then I knew the guys and I knew—and you kind of get into the routine of stuff and it‘s just—it was a job and it‘s something that just came along and you did what had to be done. 54:11 It‘s been that way in any war that we‘ve had, any war that the United States has been involved in, the Civil War, the War of Independence, Korea, 54 �WWI, WWII, right on up through. Individuals have stepped up to the plate and done what had to be done. Interviewer: Now, at the point when you left Vietnam, how much time did you have left in the service? Less than ninety days Interviewer: What did they do with you when you got back? Discharged, I was discharged straight from Fort Lewis, Washington. Anything under a hundred and eighty days, they discharged you. If you had more than a hundred and eighty days left, they sent you somewhere else. They might send you to Korea, or they might send you to Alaska or Europe. 55:05 If you had more than six months, they would send you somewhere else. Anything under six months, or a hundred and eighty days, they normally discharged you. I was down under ninety days and it was one thing—and I don‘t know that they‘ve really changed, well I guess they do a little bit here and are a little bit better with it now, but I was in Cam Ranh Bay for several days and Cam Ranh Bay, even though it was a large area and stuff, you‘re still in a combat zone. Roughly an eighteen hour flight from Vietnam to the states, and we were in Fort Lewis , Washington for about seventeen hours when they handed me my discharge papers, and I walked out of there, got into a cab and went to the Seatac Airport, got on a flight, flew to Chicago, where I rented a car and drove the rest of the way home. 56:09 I wasn‘t going to sit in Chicago for seven hours waiting for the flight to come into Michigan. But in less than twenty-four hours from the point in time that we were in a combat zone, I‘m turned loose on the American public with absolutely zero debriefing, nothing. No transition time, nothing, I mean I‘ve gone from being in a combat zone where people could be 55 �dropping rockets at me and shooting at me and bombs and the whole nine yards, being turned loose on the American public. Interviewer: How easy, or hard, was it to make the adjustment back to civilian life then? It was, it was pretty difficult, and I mean I run, I started — I had some really hard times. I started drinking quite heavily. 57:02 I got home the day before Mother‘s Day, and I don‘t remember Mother‘s Day that year, I slept through the whole thing because I hadn‘t been to bed in six days, and I hadn‘t really slept in six days. So, I mean I was tired. That was in May, my father worked in a factory and he invited a bunch of people out, friends and their families, for the 4th of July party and stuff out at the house. He even went down and got permits for fireworks, and the guys would take the little Black Cat firecracker and light them and throw them and the next thing I know, I‘m on the ground and I‘m just—it was difficult. I started drinking quite heavily, I started doing drugs, and it was tough, tough. 58:02 I didn‘t—I drank, and consumed massive quantities of beer and smoked lots of Marijuana. I had never touched Marijuana before I went in the service. I never touched it until after I got out. And I say I drank a lot, I smoked dope, I consumed massive quantities of food, I went from the one hundred and forty-five pounds, that I weighed when I got out of the service, and a year later weighted two hundred and seventy-five pounds, yeah. Interviewer: How did you get stuff back under control? Well, it still isn‘t totally under control, but I don‘t drink anymore, I don‘t smoke anymore, I use to smoke cigarettes and I quit smoking thirty years ago. I quit three things 56 �in ten days, drinking, smoking dope, and well four things, quit chewing my fingernails, and quit smoking. 59:05 I still like to eat, but not as much. Interviewer: Did you just decide at some point you had to change stuff? Yeah, it‘s like, ―I‘m not going down this road anymore‖, so I--Interviewer: What kind of work did you get into then after you got back? I worked at Clark Equipment Co. and I don‘t know if you know who they are, but they built the Clark Forklift. There was kind of a family history of working for the equipment company. My grandfathers, both of my grandfathers worked for them, my father worked for them, cousins, uncles, aunts, and I went to work for them and worked fourteen years before they packed their bags and moved to Korea. Let‘s see, in nineteen—I was kind of working—I was laid off from them, my seniority was gone, but in nineteen eighty three, I started driving a semi and until I retired a couple of years ago, I drove a semi. 0:09 I did almost fifteen years of long haul and ten years of driving local. It‘s been kind of tough, I‘ve worked for five companies since I got out of the service and all, with the exception of Clark Equipment, I mean the Clark Equipment Company just packed their bags and moved out of the country, everybody else has gone bankrupt. The last company I worked for, for ten years, went bankrupt a couple years ago and since then I have not had a job. I have not been able to find a job; they don‘t want an old, diabetic, retired veteran. Interviewer: Now, do you get any help from the VA these days? Yes I do, yes I do, that‘s in fact, the VA is the only medical coverage I have anymore, but they help me out quite well. Because I was in country they considered me in—anybody that was in country, they automatically consider them to have been exposed to Agent Orange. 1:14 And different side effects and different illnesses that are attributed to 57 �Agent Orange, they have quite a list, and on one of them is diabetes. I am a diabetic and because of that I get forty percent disability from the VA, and right now I‘m currently going in there and spending two or three days a week, that I go into the VA for treatment for what they think is a torn rotator cuff in my shoulder, but we‘ll find out. Because I do have what they consider a service related disability, they not only give me the compensation I get from them, but they also pay me my mileage. 2:06 Which is alright, but I‘d still rather not have the diabetes and have to deal with the injuries etc., but they‘re really doing quite well, I‘ve been dealing with the VA for a couple of years now and right now I can‘t complain. They have been very, very nice, very kind and accommodating. Interviewer: To look back over the whole thing and you answered part of this already, what effects do you think your time in the service has had on you? Were there any good sides to it? Yes, yes, I became a world traveler. I got to see and understand peoples of different parts of the world and really realize just how fortunate we are in the United States to have what we have. 3:11 I mean, we as a nation are extremely well off, even in today‘s economic conditions etc. We as people in the United States and the vast majority of the people in the United States do not realize, don‘t understand, the abject poverty that other nations live in. Even today, I‘m sure, I‘ve never been back to Vietnam, but I can almost guarantee you there are still tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese that live a day to day existence out in the jungles out there, and I mean life has not changed for them and life will never change for them, their always going to be this way. 4:02 It makes me happy, proud that I am an American, because I have had the opportunity to see how people live. I‘ve had the opportunity to travel to places that I 58 �probably would never have seen in my life. I mean, I‘ve been to Okinawa, I‘ve been to Guam, I‘ve been to Midway, I‘ve been to Alaska, I‘ve been to Hawaii. These are places that I probably would never have seen in my life, and I‘ve been there, and being a military veteran has afforded me job opportunities that were not available—I mean they were available to other people, but because of my military status, as a veteran, I was probably hired over somebody else that wasn‘t. Interviewer: So, not all of the reception upon getting home was necessarily negative? 5:02 It wasn‘t—I mean, it was—there were some major negative parts coming home. We got to the airport and I took a set of clothing out of my bag, before it was put on the plane, and when I got on the plane, I still had my class A uniform on, I went into the bathroom and changed clothes and put on my civilian clothes before I-Interviewer: Is that something they were advising you to do at that point? No, but I mean, you could—the Vietnam veterans, unfortunately, were really treated quite shabbily when they came back to this country, and I‘m very pleased with the program, the Welcome Home Vietnam Veterans program, that was run out at Fifth Third Park last summer, that was wonderful. 6:01 I got to spend the whole day out there, and I was really pleased. Unlike out veterans that are coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq and stuff, today, that are treated like heroes and stuff, the Vietnam veterans were really, they were treated like scum. The less you identified yourself as a Vietnam veteran, as a member, the better off for you, because you—granted they could still tell more or less because I—well, I don‘t have any hair now, but it was—you‘re hair‘s cut short and the whole nine yards, so it‘s just—it was one of those things, but, I mean, you could tell. It 59 �was a bit of a culture shock, to a degree, coming back. I got delayed two days in Vietnam, at the airport, because while we‘re sitting there we had a typhoon come in, and that‘s not something you want to sit through in a corrugated steel building. 7:14 It starts rattling and the whole nine yards and water coming in through it. Anyway, we—the storm cleared, we got on our airplane, and when we got on the plane it was a hundred and seventeen degrees with a ninety-nine percent humidity. We landed in Okinawa to refuel the plane and when we landed in Okinawa the stewardesses and stuff on the plane said, ―There are blankets up above, you may want to grab them and wrap up in them because the current weather condition here at the airport is forty-one degrees and rain‖, and that‘s a little rough on your body. Most flights, and stuff, unless they‘re international flights, you‘re not going to get food on board the plane. 8:15 I paid sixty seven dollars for my plane ticket from Seattle to Chicago, Delta Airlines, a military standby ticket, just barely got out, I mean they were closing the doors when I was coming down the concourse to get on there, and it was in the evening and I rode first class on a dinner flight. But the one nice thing they did for us when I got back to Seattle, when we came in there, they took us into what‘s called the ―Vietnam Returnees Steak House‖, and it was one of the chow halls that had been converted into a restaurant type thing. Now, you still had to go through a line, but you ordered your steak how you wanted it cooked. You went and sat down and they actually had waiters and stuff and they brought a nice steak dinner out to you with the baked potato, tossed salad with the dressing, I mean the whole nine yards, it was really kind of nice. 9:07 Interviewer: I think that pretty well takes care of the story here, so thank you very much for coming in and sharing it with us. 60 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MannR Title A name given to the resource Mann, Randy (Interview transcript and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mann, Randy Description An account of the resource Randy Mann was born in Battle Creek, Michigan in July 1949. Although he received his draft notice following his high school graduation, Mann did not enter the service until eighteen months later. After completing basic training at Fort Knox, Kentucky, Mann went through advanced training at Fort Polk, Louisiana. While at Fort Polk, Mann had the option to go to NCO school, which was located at Fort Benning, Georgia and Mann took the option. Then, while at Fort Benning, Mann had the option of attending Ranger school, which he took as well. Once deployed to Vietnam, Mann received an assignment to a Ranger unit although after one mission, he decided it was not for him and transferred to a regular infantry unit that operated around the village of Tam Ky. After operating with the unit around Tam Ky and at a firebase called Camp Duck and being wounded several times, Mann's commanders pulled him back and placed him in-charge of the re-supply and mail room, which involved flying daily on helicopters to the DMZ to deliver mail and supplies, a job Mann kept until his tour ended. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-05-12 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e63caa51316cfe0db6288d8312cfaa65.mp4 6c0ff9a52efa4442bcb36dbd1c77db1b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/26853f253babb6da43259418b88154aa.pdf 1bc360db13b94a8fe4276aaf3cc962e9 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Charles Mangold (01:19:55) (00:20) Background Information • • • • • • • • • Charles was born June 9, 1952 in Saginaw, MI He grew up on a farm in Three Rivers, MI and his dad worked for the county His father sold the farm and divorced his mother They moved to Millington, MI to live on his grandmother’s farm Charles graduated from high school in 1970 and had recently looked into joining the Air Force He couldn’t find a job after high school and tried joining the Army but they told him he weighed too much He started a job in manufacturing, rebuilding water pumps At work he had a few no-shows and got fired, so his father kicked him out and he had to live in a car He checked back with the Air Force but ended up enlisting in the Navy for six years (19:05) December 20, 1970 Boot Camp • • • • • • • Charles was sent to Fort Wayne, IN for induction It was near the end of the Vietnam war and many people were joining the Marine Corps He took a plane to Great Lakes Naval Academy in Chicago There wasn’t much physical training and they focused on classes Everyone had to get all of their hair cut off and some of the men cried The classes taught basic naval operations, nautical procedure, tying knots, weapons training, and survival Charles lost about 30 pounds during basic training (30:00) Basic Propulsion and Engineering School (BP&E) • • • • • • He attended BP&E for 5 weeks and Machinist Aid School for 7 weeks Then took 2 weeks leave to visit family in MI He then went to submarine school, taking classes and training for one year Charles boarded his first submarine in December, 1971 While training he decided that he did not enjoy classes and did not want to be in the navy for 6 years He purposely got bad grades in the Machinist Aid courses so that he would wash out and not move up to the nuclear power program �• He regrets this now because the training would have helped him get more salary today (34:05) USS James Monroe • • • • Charles boarded the USS James Monroe, which was a fleet ballistic missile submarine headed for Pearl Harbor He spent 3 months in Hawaii as a Machinist Mate on dry dock repairing engines on subs Machinist Mates maintained auxiliary equipment There were 85 men working on the sub in all different shifts (43:20) USS Sablefish • • • • • • • While not at port Charles worked in the engine room He traveled to Korea and Japan on the USS Sablefish There were many North and South Korean ships and subs in the water because they remained enemies after the Korean War He traveled to Hong Kong, Taiwan and the Philippines Every time he was at port he had the liberty to visit different cities Their longest patrol at sea lasted 19 days; they spent most of the time at the surface They spent a lot of time playing cards because there wasn’t much else to do (54:15) Life after the Navy • • • • • • Charles moved to Gaylord, MI and worked with his brother-in-law as a carpenter after the navy He got married and had a daughter, but did not enjoy his job because he thought it was too easy and boring He then moved back to Millington and worked with his father in a scrap yard He moved to Gaylord again and worked at Northern Tank where he worked for 80 to 100 hours a weeks Charles then began driving trucks for Kodiak Construction He then worked at a gas station and builds mini train sets on his free time � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MangoldC Title A name given to the resource Mangold, Charles (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mangold, Charles Description An account of the resource Charles Mangold was born on June 9, 1952 in Saginaw, Michigan. Charles enlisted in the Navy in December of 1970 and went through boot camp at Great Lakes Naval Academy in Chicago, Illinois. He then went through Basic Propulsion Engineering School and Machinist Aid School. Charles trained for submarine service for one year and then boarded his first submarine in 1971. Charles traveled to Hawaii, Japan, and Korea while on active duty and worked as a machinist's mate. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Navy Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-11-08 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/67066338da5ac18b3ed22aac2c8d21ee.mp4 078f67829b611fc799bd5aed8ad17904 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e84735f255aa209b2d6a9042589a9d07.pdf 63b871b9b90f6ad2b6514667f6fd25ad PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Anthony Mangione Length: 29:38 (00:05) Background Information • • • Anthony was born in Brooklyn, New York on December 26, 1931 He enlisted in the Marine Corps reserves in 1948, which was similar to the National Guard Anthony was stationed at the Brooklyn Navy Yard (1:40) Boot Camp • Anthony was sent to Camp Lejeune in North Carolina as well as the Norfolk Navy base for training with men in the regular Marine Corps • They trained with M1Rifles, tanks, jeeps, trucks BARs, and 30 calibers • Every person in the Marine Corps had to qualify as a rifleman or they would not be able to move forward in training • Anthony became a marksman and sharpshooter and began training other men • He later became a corporal with his division was activated (4:35) School Troops • Anthony was part of the 19th Infantry Battalion and sent to Quantico, Virginia to work at the Marine Corps headquarters • They were working with the “school troops,” helping 2nd Lieutenants through their field training in the Blue Ridge Mountains • Anthony worked in Virginia for a little more than 1.5 years in the school troops • They worked in combat training with the 2nd Lieutenants, playing the bad guys and basically trying to make their lives miserable (7:30) Camp Life • They had much nicer barracks than the 2nd Lieutenants, with their own kitchen, cooks, and people to wait on them • Their barracks was next to the air field and a swimming pool • They continued training, marching, and working with weapons • Quantico was also where the FBI workers were trained • Anthony often worked on guard duty at the hospital, on motor vehicles, and on prison chasing • They put on shows for congressmen and foreign dignitaries, detailing on how the Marine Corps worked �(12:25) Living Conditions • They lived in cinder block barracks and he had lived in tents while in North Carolina • The men often performed in parades and had once been called to a parade on Pennsylvania Avenue • For some reason they felt that President Truman did not like the Marine Corps and they did not like him either • They worked with many men that had been fighting in Korea, but were later going through rehabilitation (19:25) After Service • Anthony was asked to sign up for another 6 years of service in 1952, but he declined because he was not interested in fighting in Korea • It was impossible to find a job in New York City after serving in the Marine Corps • Anthony eventually found a job working with his brother at an electrical company • He got married and bought a house in New Jersey with the help of the GI Bill � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MangioneA Title A name given to the resource Mangione, Anthony (Interview outline and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mangione, Anthony Description An account of the resource Anthony Mangione was born in Brooklyn, New York in 1936 and enlisted in the Marines Corps reserves in 1948. The Korean War broke out in 1950 and his unit had been activated. Anthony was stationed at the Marine Corps headquarters in Quantico, Virginia working with the school troops. Their job was to work with the 2nd Lieutenants during their field training. He decided not to re-enlist in 1952 because he did not want to be sent to Korea. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mangione, Nathaniel (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-01-23 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c45af4682cd8f832715a6f102c453619.m4v 7f8e4f736a9bea86e5e2287a35075f9c https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/42968809cd84ffc4d9da0605690ccd2d.pdf 7d2330637df35e76f48665944bb21dd5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Albert Manes Length of interview (01:04:12) (00:06) Background Born in Brooklyn, New York on September 20, 1919. (00:07) Family moved to Pontiac, Michigan when he was two years old. (00:18) Moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1932, in the midst of the Depression. (00:38) Graduated from Central High in 1937 and worked as a shoe salesman for a few years. (00:54) Was inducted on September 19, 1941. (01:07) (01:16) Basic Training Left Grand Rapids for Fort Custer in Battle Creek. After a few weeks there, they were sent to Camp Roberts in California. (03:01) Describes life in barracks. (03:23) Says that basic training “felt like a game” because no one thought that they were really going to war. (05:15) Describes a typical day at Fort Custer. (05:55) Never finished basic training because Pearl Harbor occurred during his ninth week. Describes his experience. (07:26) Was sent to Santa Rosa, California, for three days during December where he was assigned to the 7th Infantry Division. (09:38) His battalion was sent to San Mateo, California, and lived at the Bay Meadows Racetrack. (10:42) Describes becoming a clerk while at Half Moon Bay. Became the assistant in the Orderly Room for the First Sergeant while in San Mateo. (15:34) Took platoons of approximately 35 people to guard the coast for about a week at a time. Describes his duties. (11:33) In April of 1942, division moved down the coast to Camp San Luis Obispo. Describes the more intensive training. (14:00) Had a week of training in the San Joaquin Valley before training for 70 days in the Mojave Desert. Didn’t know it at the time, but they were training against people coming from Louisiana. (17:35) In January of 1943, their motorized equipment was taken away and the division was sent to Fort Ord, California, for several months. (18:32) In April, the division boarded a troop ship in San Francisco and left for the Aleutian Islands. Describes his experience traveling. (19:06) (21:23) Service in Aleutian Islands His division invaded the island of Attu. (21:28) Describes the equipment they were given. (22:00) Each platoon of approximately 30 men was assigned specific jobs. At the time, his job �was administrative. He assisted the First Sergeant seargant and worked as a runner for the Company Commander because the moisture in the air inhibited the walkie talkies that were typically used. (22:16) The landscape and weather made this job difficult. Because the Japanese were above the fog line, they could see the U.S. troops, but the troops couldn’t see them. Although the location was dangerous, he never found himself in danger. (23:55) The troops moved from the ships to the shore by LSTs. Recalls that many of them hit sand bars on the way in, and men jumped off into eight feet of water and were never heard from again. (24:35) His division was not under fire while arriving. Didn’t encounter enemy troops until they were about one or two miles in land. (25:02) The terrain was very soft once they moved past the beach. Recalls that many men were lost due to frostbite. Supposes that frostbite did as much damage as the enemy did. (26:24) He traveled about 50 feet behind the troops with the rest of the administrative group. When the troops encountered combat, he wasn’t very involved. (27:10) The troops were unable to move for apprximately one week because of the incoming Japanese mortars and machine gunfire. After a week, it was decided that they had to move forward. Recalls that a lot of men, including the Company Commander were lost during this particular endeavor. (28:06) Describes his role as a runner during this time. Says that it was a difficult job, but he was fortunate. (29:19) Gradually worked their way through Attu. (30:27) At the end of May when it was still daylight at midnight , the Japanese employed a Banzai attack. Because the U.S. troops had the high ground, they took a lot of Japanese lives. (31:06) Moved to another Aleutian Island called Adak on July 15, 1943. The island had a small air field, a movie theater, and small recreation areas. Stayed in Adak to recuperate from the battle of Attu. (32:29) Troops moved to Kiska on August 15, which was the island that the Japanese were most prominent on. Were told that this would be an especially difficult battle. (33:43) Were not under fire when they arrived by ship. Thought that the Japanese would certainly attack upon arrival because of the landscape. (34:16) Found that the Japanese had evacuated the island. To his knowledge, “the Air Corps got credit for driving them out, the Navy was reprimanded for letting them get away, and the Army got laughed at for going in.” (34:57) (36:05) Service in Hawaii and South Pacific Troops traveled to Hawaii afterwards to recuperate until January. Describes his disappointment upon arrival. (36:05) After January of 1944, the troops boarded ships and traveled to the Mariana Islands. Troops were split up in order to attack the smaller islands. Recalls that they ran into some resistance, but within a week they had “cleared the place out” and sailed back to Hawaii. (37:57) Had little knowledge of the war’s progression at this time. (39:29) Troops left Hawaii in early August and traveled for about a month before arriving in �Eniwetok. Stayed in the harbor for two weeks. (41:13) Troops left again and traveled to Manus Island. Stayed there for a time before leaving again for the Philippines. (43:00) The troops invaded Leyte, which was the first invasion of the Philippines. (43:38) Recalls that the Japanese began attacking once they had a foothold, but by that time they had enough men on shore to handle it. (44:43) At this time, he worked as a radio operator between his company and the batallion’s headquarters, which required him to carry a 50 pound radio. (45:48) Describes the jungle environment and his encounters with gunfire. (46:38) While traveling down the forward slope of a hill, the Company Commander called a meeting of all leutenants and seargants. Despite suggestions to find a better place to meet, the Company Commander insisted that they were safe. Within minutes, three rounds of artillery were fired and three men were killed and many were wounded. Albert was awarded a Bronze Star on December 10, 1944 for calling the medics to the scene. (50:35) The troops hit Okinawa on April 1, 1945. Witnessed a kamikaze plane hit a ship. (55:09) Troops moved across the island and never had any opposition until they reached the other side. (56:01) Because Okanawa was the Japanese Artillery Training Grounds, the Japanese knew the area so well that they simply had to wait for the U.S. troops. Describes the difficulties encountered. (56:34) (58:38) Returning Home Soon after the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Albert was sent to Washington to begin being discharged. (58:38) Describes his reaction to the end of the war. (1:00:04) Stayed in Washington for a few days, before being sent to Wisconsin to be discharged. (1:00:52) Called his family once he head reached Milwaulkee. Once he arrived in Muskegon by ferry, his entire extended family of approximately 50 people were there to greet him. Recalls that it was a very emotional event for everyone. (1:01:07) Admits that his military career didn’t impact him very much. Says that he “wouldn’t do it again for a million dollars, but [he] wouldn’t take a million dollars for what he did.” (1:02:21) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ManesA Title A name given to the resource Manes, Albert (Interview outline and video), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Manes, Albert Description An account of the resource Albert Manes was born in Brooklyn, New York, in 1919, but grew up in Michigan. He was drafted in 1941 and was assigned to the 7th Infantry Division. He served in the headquarters section of an infantry company. He saw action with his unit in the Aleutian Islands, the Marianas, on Leyte in the Philippines, and on Okinawa. He was awarded a Bronze Star for his service on Leyte. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Michigan Military Preservation Society (Grand Rapids, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-11-08 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/66148fb84256eeae6d3185463aa602c2.mp4 42d9d3b33f3abae975040c1fa39eade7 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/dc6ae72f7d4ecb6d38fe928e1d73f8bc.pdf 5227ce1c7414cadec1fa772e7a64b9b0 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview World War II Horton Mallory Length of interview (1:16:30) (0:25) Background Grew up and lived in Elwell, Michigan (0:45) Had worked on the farm with his father all his life (1:03) Was drafted into the Army [during World War II] and when he reported for his physical was encouraged to enlist in the Air Corps (1:45) Wanted to learn how to fly but was too short to be a pilot (2:15) Enlisted in the airforce and wanted to be a bombardier (2:30) Went to Saginaw, Michigan to be sworn in as private (3:15) Didn’t have assignment for him; waited 6 months before joining cadet corps (3:40) (3:45) Training Went to pre-flight school in Ellington Field, Texas (4:02) Had never been in Texas before and remembers the heat most of all (4:25) Learned mathematics, physics, Morse code, aircraft and naval identification (4:50) Was only there for nine weeks (5:04) Next went to bombing school in San Angelo, Texas (5:36) Base was in desert to accommodate the bombing range (6:20) Target set up with a shack in the middle used for practice (7:00) Received six more weeks of training to be a dead reckoning navigator (8:12) Used a compass, altitude, wind direction, and air speed to navigate (9:12) Through dead reckoning was able to arrive directly on target (10:00) (12:00) Active Duty Flew from Texas to Brazil, and in Brazil their plane had a fuel leak (13:30) Flew in a B-24 Liberator; the largest and fastest plane at the time (15:00) On flight to Europe took fire from anti-aircraft guns (16:00) One of the plane’s engines was taken out during trip to Europe (17:15) On first run they were bombing a railroad yard in Sophia, Bulgaria (19:07) In the plane he sat right in the nose of the aircraft and could see everything (20:23) Used a telescope with a gyroscope attached to it to aim the crosshairs (22:20) Carried 200lb, 500lb, 1000lb, and 2000lb and fragmentation bombs (25:00) Norden Bombsight put plane in auto pilot to accurately drop bomb (26:10) Bomb had a tail and nose fuse that went off at fraction of a second difference (28:00) Propeller on bomb would spin off and then the fuse would be set (28:45) 24-32 bombers flew in a formation at a time (29:20) Flew with same crew on every mission in the same aircraft (29:50) Flew at 20000-27000 thousand feet with freezing temperatures (32:15) Gun turrets attached to top, bottom, back and sides of B-24 bomber (35:00) While on European tour, encountered a German fighter jet (38:14) �Had confidence that commanding pilot would keep formation safe (40:32) (40:45) Active Duty Continued Bomber formations mostly flew with fighter planes escorts (41:45) One occasion bombers ran into group of 100 fighters; several were shot down(43:50) When a plane went down, it made him feel sick that his comrades died (46:10) Given flak jackets to wear, put his underneath him so he wouldn’t get shot (47:35) Rear gunner threw icicle-like formations out of plane to disrupt enemy radar(49:01) He personally flew 38 and 12 of those he received double credit for danger (50:00) Fellow gunner shot down on first mission with different crew (52:30) His pilot was operations officer, got to pick easy mission towards end (53:15) After they flew their last mission they celebrated at the local pub (55:48) During leisure time they went to theater in nearby town (56:45) Wrote letters to his family often, and received letters often being in air force (59:10) Kept track of how many missions he had left and looked forward to it (1:00:17) Never knew if next flight would be the last; very nerve racking (1:01:51) Everybody received flight medals and the pilot earned a silver star (1:02:14) He personally earned 5 flight medals; he called them survival medals (1:02:52) Overwhelming feeling of joy when he touched down after final mission (1:04:21) Returned to United States, landed in New York then Fort Sheridan, Illinois(1:04:41) Could not wait to see his parents for the first time after coming home (1:08:00) (1:10:00) Post Service When he was discharged received compensation (1:11:02) Got job with Michigan chemical in St Louis, Missouri (1:11:02) Quit the chemical lab and went to work on farm for rest of life (1:11:52) Built his own house with his father and got married (1:12:23) Started a family has 3 boys and 2 girls that work on the farm with him (1:16:30) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MalloryH1183V Title A name given to the resource Mallory, Horton (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mallory, Horton Description An account of the resource Horton Mallory was born in Elwell, Michigan, and was drafted during World War II. He volunteered for the Army Air Corps, and trained as a bombardier. He flew in B-24 bombers out of Italy, and served a total of 38 missions in the later stages of he war. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Weber, Mark (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Air Corps Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-05-12 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/352e3d73a6a374ce623570637d681bd3.mp4 f529eef345d071265952e6d0782fadda https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a4cb68960bb5b00f0a181058d9a7c4c9.pdf 34787d958bac3bbea22540be01fa20e5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Notes Length: 38:49 Bernard B. Maller WWII veteran United States Army; 1941 – 1946 (0:00) Before grade school • Born in Detroit, MI in 1920 • Has many family pictures of him growing up in an album • Father was in the fur business • Mom was a homemaker (2:30) Fur business • Dad had a workshop where he manufactured furs into garments o He was a pattern maker • Bernard got three different degrees in the fur business o Pattern maker – he would make custom patterns for customers so that the garment would fit well o Fur cutter o Fitter (3:35) Grade school • Chum around with the principal’s nephew o Across from the school in the basement of an apartment building was a grocery store that sold sandwiches, cookies, candy, milk, etc. o When Maller and friend didn’t like the food at school, would buy lunch from the store o Most kids went home for lunch (6:08) High school • Entered high school in 1932 • Graduated in 1936 • Played tennis but had to give it up after 1 year because had a stubborn wart on his heel that wouldn’t go away even after three operations (8:21) Graduation and after • Graduated in 1936 • Dad still worked in furs • Maller went to college at Wayne State University (which was called City College at that time) • Graduated in 1940 (10:30) Current events • Didn’t pay too much attention to the news but knew that it would affect his life in some way (11:05) Service • Enlisted in service and sent to Cheyenne, Wyoming then transferred to Virginia for Officers training �o Training took 3 months; “90 Day Wonder” o Immediately afterward, sent overseas (1942) as a Second Lieutenant (14:08) London • Arrived in London o The route to London was a zigzagged one but with good seas so not too many soldiers were seasick o On the way back to the states, the seas were terrible; Maller’s ship hit one of the worst storms ever recorded • Once in London, assigned to Quartermaster Headquarters o Job was to check everybody’s supplies and make sure everyone had what needed food and equipment wise (17:12) France • Was flown over to France to headquarters o Still worked in assigning and checking supplies • Paris o Needed to make sure that soldiers and civilians had food and clothing ƒ The Germans had confiscated all the food in Paris and gave it to people only when they saw it fit (not often) o Maller had an issue; there was a building that was 1 square block long and 4 stories high filled with liquor. Maller was responsible for redistributing the liquor evenly o Maller was not a big drinker so would often take a few bottles of champagne for his fellow officers at the headquarters (23:20) Belgium • Went to Namur but didn’t spend much time there because moving quickly; went past the Battle of the Bulge (24:20) Germany • Spent five and a half years here as part of the Army of Occupation o Still responsible for supplies and redistribution • Traveled a lot • Went to Cologne o Not a building left standing; just large holes that used to be basements. When walking around, saw that people had put tarps over the holes and made some makeshift electrical connections (29:00) Home • Came back to the states by ship, on a troop carrier • First thing that Maller saw was the Statue of Liberty (30:42) After the service • Got his degree with the GI Bill • Worked with his dad • Made women’s coats and garment • Custom tailoring shop called M. Maller (35:42) Masonry • Joined the Masons when 21 years old, right after the service at the Detroit Lodge • Never got married �• Loves working in the fur business � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MallerB Title A name given to the resource Maller, Bernard (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Maller, Bernard B. Description An account of the resource Bernard B. Maller is a WW II veteran who served in the United States Army from 1941 to 1946 in England, Belgium, France, and Germany. Maller grew up in Detroit. In 1941 Maller enlisted in the Army, underwent officer training and was promptly sent overseas to manage supply distribution, a task which once included redistributing all the liquor found in a building one square block long and four stories high. Maller ended his time in the service in Germany as a member of the Army of Occupation. After the war, Maller continued to work with his father in the fur business. He joined the Masons after leaving the service. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Freemasons Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-09-02 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bd59d30757d77ccd6db49f92607a4a47.mp4 74fcd9d85ffc199cea4171e5408fd0b3 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2462fa4e59fcaa1c3e7d9353abed2d7a.pdf 035819b06f1cbd052ff1b00b3806c0f5 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Bernard Malewitz (00:43:17:07) (0:39) Background • Grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan on Burton Ave. [St.] • With his Mom and Dad and three sisters and one brother • Dad owned a plumbing and heating business o He now runs the business,  He was 8 years old when he started working for his father  Brought in water to the guys on the job sites 0:56)  Dad’s business helped put water lines into East Grand Rapids (1:42) • Attended St. Stephen’s Grade School (1:49) • University of Detroit for mechanical engineering • Graduated from Central High School • Drafted after WWII while he was in engineering school • He was deferred until the end of his semester, but the draft had expired by that time (2:01) (02:35) The Draft • There was a small draft in 1948 for the Berlin Air Lift, but he was still in college so he was deferred once again (2:38) • Korean War, he was one of the first on the buses • He was the 16th guy in Kent County Michigan to be called in for service (2:52) • He was sent to Fort Wayne in Detroit, Michigan (3:03) • Sent to Fort Knox, Kentucky for basic training o Spent 6 weeks there (3:17) • He said the country was confused and drafted everyone in a hurry (3:32) • No one in the barracks had been there for longer than 5 years o 60 man barracks had more than 200 people in it (3:40) • Had to stop the draft due to the large inflow of recruits (4:00) (04:05) Basic Training • He was sent to Fort Meyer after his basic training (4:06) • Sent with other mechanical, civil, and architectural engineers (4:29) • He was sent to Fort Belvoir to teach (4:46) • Sent to teach water distillation o Taught for the rest of his service (5:00) • His basic training was very physical (5:12) • He learned to shoot o He went hunting with his father since he was a child • He easily made marksman • He said the trainers were tough, but he didn’t find it too difficult (5:45) �(05:50) Teaching during the War • He taught 38 hours a week, he was only supposed to teach 18 hours a week (6:14) • They did not have enough teachers towards the end of his service o In the beginning they had too many people teaching, so they were all spread out to different facilities (6:20) • He was sent back to have engineering training o Learned how to build bridges and various types of buildings (6:35) • Says that the military did not match the person up with the proper job suitable for the person o People were not qualified to teach what they were assigned to teach (7:13) • He was in the Corps of Engineers o Due to his schooling background (7:25) • He taught a water distillation course o So far it was only used in Guantanamo Bay o He taught a wide range of soldiers • From privates to generals from foreign military personnel (7:34) • The courses he taught were 4 weeks long (8:25) • Taught filtration as well as distillation o He and his class would go do field work at the Potomac River to learn how to use the equipment (8:43) • This class was important because it was a necessary knowledge needed in Korea (9:06) • The equipment was needed to filter out the virus Shish Tison [?](9:25) • Military did not realize this virus was killing its men for awhile o Many people got sick and died later on because of this water born virus (9:44) • It attacked the liver (9:47) • He taught the course for two years in Washington (10:43) • He was drafted for 21 months, and it was extended o He did not receive orders for the extension o He was not allowed to just up and leave so he took it in stride (10:47) • During his basic training he lived in 60 man wooden barracks (11:46) • He played on the military golf team (12:08) • He went from private to sergeant in 7 weeks o This was very rare o He should have been a first lieutenant (12:29) • He became head instructor o He couldn’t become a first lieutenant because he was drafted (12:44) • If he became an officer he would have to stay another year o He politely declined that, with a laugh (13:04) • Part of the reason for his declining was because his father wanted him out of the service as quickly as possible (13:10) • He and the other men had free time after they completed their various jobs and duties o Such as guard duty (13:23) �His Dad sent him his golf clubs and the fort had a huge empty space that he used as a driving range o Said his barracks looked like a country club (14:19) (14:25) Golf • He helped teach others golf (14:52) o Which helped his own game he claims • He and his fellow recruits went to a small clubhouse for drinks o He signed up for the clubs golf championship (15:34) • The day of the championship was very hot and dry, but he was winning (16:06) • The captain he beat for the championship was head of the army’s golf team o He was recruited for it (16:52) • Played against other Army posts, Navy, Air Force, and Pentagon teams (17:29) • He was a part of the Second Army (17:50) • He was qualified for the Army golf contests all over the country (18:49) • He did not consider his service a burden, and he was willing to serve his country. o He felt that he owed it to his country o However, when his time for his service was up, he was ready to go (19:19) • He and his fellow teachers rewrote the course curriculum (20:29) • He said that the course was ancient and outdated and that it was not taught properly to be of any use to the soldiers in the field (20:41) • He was sent to take a course on teaching in the military once his basic training was complete o He was taught by a civilian teacher • The teacher was a dynamic influence on him and his service • It was a good experience (20:47) • He got written up for teaching too many hours, but his class was always given good marks (21:18) • He taught a lot of kids right out of college, he enjoyed their enthusiasm and youth o He also taught older officers (22:24) (22:30) Off Duty Activities • Went out to town a lot (22:49) • He would go to the Pentagon’s bus station and he could go anywhere in D.C. o He saw all the monuments and battle fields (23:25) • He rode a bus with the honor guard for the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier o He would never became one of those men • Too boring and basically spent their whole life cleaning he said (24:01) • He was in the service for 24 months (24:58) • He had students that had been in Korea and he heard many stories (25:06) • He wrote home a lot (27:15) • He spent a lot of his free time dating his wife, Jean, who he had met in Washington (27:26) • He met her through a blind date set up (27:53) • He married Jean after he got out of the service while still in Washington, before he made his return to Grand Rapids (28:25) • He saw a few USO shows during his service • �o He saw Bob Hope, but he doesn’t remember many of them (28:40) (29:00) After the War • At the end of his service he filled out his discharge papers and was glad to be done (29:11) • He contracted viral pneumonia while in the army (29:46) • He was sent into his discharge interview o He was discharged quickly, even though the pneumonia had given him back issue due to a faulty spinal tap (31:40) • He had to go to a doctor who was not a very good, nor professional, doctor o The doctor had an under qualified nurse perform a spinal tap • The same doctor would not help treat a dying “Colored” soldier o Bernard was offended (33:00) • The Jim Crow laws were still in effect • He was still in service when Truman started to integrate the troops [ed. note—this process started in 1948, before Korea] (34:45) • Racism was not a big problem that he noticed in his area (35:41) • He had a friend that was from Flint, Michigan who got out of the service at the same time o His friend owned a car, so they drove home together (36:01) • They toured through New York first (36:53) • He did not take advantage of the GI Bill o This was because he already graduated from college and had a job lined up anyway (36:56) • Meeting his wife was the best thing his army service gave to him o It was a good overall experience, and it teaches you many things, and how to get along with many different people o You learn discipline as well (37:19) • He did not keep in touch with many of his military friends (39:09) • He was a part of the American Legion for a while o It is a social club • He did not join any Veteran’s programs (41:26) • His father died shortly after his discharge (42:34) • He had a paid rank o He forgets how much he got paid for his service though (42:57) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MalewitzB Title A name given to the resource Malewitz, Bernard (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Malewitz, Bernard Description An account of the resource Bernard Malewitz was born in Grand Rapids, and studied engineering at the University of Detroit before being drafted at the start of the Korean War. He served in the Army Corps of Engineers and taught water distillation techniques for two years in Fort Meyer, Washington, D.C. He worked to improve training procedures and manuals to be more useful to soldiers in the field. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Moore, Debra (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-10-06 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8e8ed1523f0fab96d9d8adf345d54074.mp4 656cd6f23bac62a92708b094fb6920a2 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6c150f8cf6bb35fec77dd08ef1a00fa6.pdf 783c6f6056d35636af0d8385e0cf1846 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran History Project Frank Maleckas Jr. (01:37:00) Frank Maleckas Sr. Background • (00:20) His parents were European-born, and came over in 1910. His mother was Polish, and his father was Lithuanian. At the time, Poland and Lithuania were still part of the Russian Empire. • (01:05) At the time, Russia had compulsory military service. His father objected to the military, and was encouraged to emigrate by foreign agents. The agents helped him leave the country. • (02:20) His father left Lithuania essentially on foot and arrived in Germany. He took a train to Hamburg, and then took a train to America. Agents had talked him into leaving Germany. • (03:32) America was described as a “heavenly country” free of military obligation. • (05:04) The ship was full of Lithuanians, Poles, and some Russians and Germans. • (05:33) In Lithuania, his father had been a farmer. • (06:27) His father went to work at Niagara Falls, New York. A Lithuanian agent helped him secure a job in the area. • (06:44) Frank Sr. married while in New York. He and his wife had a son, Frank Jr., in 1916. • (07:06) While in Niagara Falls, Frank Sr. worked in a factory but didn’t care for it much as he was more accustomed to being a farmer. • (08:16) Frank Sr. subscribed to a Lithuanian newspaper and followed up on an ad from a real estate agency in Michigan. The newspaper advertised that there was a large amount of good land available in Michigan. • (09:09) The factory Frank Sr. worked in was a flourmill factory. • (09:58) Frank Sr. found a real estate agent who would help him move to Michigan and be a farmer. • (10:14) The real estate agent helped him secure land. This was about 1920. • (10:40) The farm was about six miles south and two miles east of Custer, near Barnes Lake. • (11:05) The agent helped Frank Sr. finance the farm. �• (11:34) The land was 480 acres of former timberland. The loggers had stripped it of timber, and left stumps. • (12:40) The loggers had been very wasteful and left logs with low quality wood behind. The land was full of rejected logs, in addition to the stumps. • (12:50) Frank Sr. used as much of the wood as possible for firewood. • (13:06) Frank Sr. bought horses, farm equipment, and cattle. Frank Jr’s Pre-Enlistment • (14:30) Frank Jr. graduated from Custer High School in 1936. • (14:47) Frank helped his father farm after graduating. • (15:05) Had never been sure of what he wanted to do after graduating. He always assumed, until his senior year that he would help his father farm. The superintendant wanted him to go to college. • (16:27) Frank hadn’t planned on going to college. He didn’t think it was a realistic goal at the time. • (16:20) He helped his father dynamite stumps. • (16:30) The superintendant was very forceful that Frank Jr. should go to college, and that he could help his father better with a college education. • (17:05) The superintendant knew people at Western Michigan University and wanted to arrange for Frank to attend there. • (18:26) Frank knew someone who worked on a car ferry in Ludington. • (19:25) Frank wasn’t sure if he could get a job in Ludington, as he had no way to go there and he felt he had an obligation to help his father farm. • (20:32) Frank suggested Western Michigan because he knew the superintendant had gone there, and he couldn’t think of any other colleges at the time. He was very worried the superintendant might hit him. • (20:54) Frank had been the “number two graduate” at the school. • (21:19) Frank worked on the car ferry in Ludington. • (21:38) He went to college afterward. • (21:48) Frank knew the man who worked on the ferry because he went fishing on a lake near Frank’s home. • (22:45) The superintendant made a phone call to the man in Ludington, and had Frank speak to him. �• (23:21) Frank was told he had a job if he came there immediately, as they needed help badly because of summer tourism. • (23:39) Frank talked to his parents, and began working at the car ferry. Enlistment • (24:02) He was drafted in 1941, after his fourth year of college. He was drafted before the Pearl Harbor attack. • (24:41) He was assigned to the 32nd Infantry Division at Camp Livingston, LA. • (25:52) Despite following the superintendants plan, he was not able to secure a better job after college because the Army “snatched him up.” • (25:46) At Livingston, half of the men lived in barracks and the other half lived in tends. • (26:08) Frank was assigned to a heavy weapons company, and was assigned to be the expert machine gunner. • (26:43) America was not yet involved in the war, but the war was raging in Europe. • (27:01) He was in the military a few months into his year of duty when Pearl Harbor was attacked. • (27:17) Roosevelt cancelled all the discharges because of the attack. He advised the nation that they were “in it for the duration.” • (28:22) At the time, the American Air Force [Army Air Corps] was sub-par. Roosevelt issued an order than anyone already in the Armed Services must be allowed to transfer if they so wished and passed the physicals. • (29:05) Frank decided to take the tests, and passed first class. He had to remind his Sergeant he was allowed to transfer. • (29:50) He had heard mostly about pilots prior to his enlistment in the Air Corps. • (30:16) He took various tests and physicals and was assigned to be the navigator. • (30:59) He is unsure why he was assigned to be the navigator, but “orders were orders.” • (31:28) The bombers were long-range, and could go on trans-Atlantic flights, regardless of light or weather conditions. • (32:09) The pilot’s duty was to handle the plane; the navigators’ duty was to help them find their way. �• (32:37) He was assigned to the B-24 bombers. • (32:56) He was in training for about six months for navigation training. • (33:14) He flew planes specially designated to train navigators. All the planes used the same kind of navigation systems. • (33:44) There were schools throughout the nation; one was in Monroe, LA. There were other schools elsewhere. • (34:28) He was trained to navigate by the stars. • (35:30) The navigators also used broadcasting stations to triangulate their position. • (36:40) Triangulation had to be performed very quickly as the plane traveled 200 mph. Then they had to notify the pilot of their position. • (37:04) Navigation was especially critical over the ocean, as the radio aids could not be used. • (37:21) Navigators also used the sun and the moon to navigate. • (37:46) After being established as a qualified navigator, he was assigned to a bomb squadron. • (38:28) The Air Force had about ten thousand bombers, which were divided up into a few dozen bombs groups. First plane crash • (38:37) He was assigned to the 13th Air Force, which consisted of B-24’s. • (39:03) B-17’s, B-24’s, and the later B-29’s were all four-engine bombers. • (39:27) There were ten men in his crew- the pilot, the co-pilot, the bombardiers, the navigator, and six gunners. (There was a pilot, a co-pilot, a flight-engineer (who was also a waist-gunner), a bombardier, a radio operator, a tail-turret gunner, a front turret gunner, a ball turret gunner, and a second waist-gunner and himself) (Maleckas 17) • (40:23) All of the crew was officers, except for the gunners. • (41:24) Frank’s first pilot was Aldan A. Aleman • (41:43) Aldan was from Santa, Anna CA. He was a college graduate. • (42:01) Frank and Aldan were very close friends. • (42:51) The crew trained together. �• (43:04) They were assigned to pick up a new airplane in Colorado. There was an ice storm at the time. • (44:30)The pilot objected to the operation, because it was “not flying weather.” Command ordered the pilot to fly above the storm. • (45:44) The storm had rain which fell as liquid, but froze on contact. • (45:57) While in flight, the leading edge of the wing began building up a wall of ice. • (47:08) As they reached altitude, Frank gave the pilot an estimated time of arrival and directions. The plane began vibrating increasingly. • (47:46) The pilot couldn’t make the plane climb to the safe altitude above the storm, and the plane began to lose altitude. • (48:17) The plane began falling at 8,000 feet. • (48:57) The pilot advised everyone to put on their parachutes and prepare to bail. • (49:33) They were “in the soup,” that is, in the clouds. • (50:11) The order to bail never came, but he bailed anyway. • (50:48) The plane hit the ground and blew up. Frank was the only survivor. • (51:24) After the plane crash, Frank was “emotionally wrecked,” and hospitalized for a week. At the end, the doctor advised him he was “fit to fly.” • (52:10) Frank certainly didn’t feel “fit to fly” but decided the doctor was a better judge of his health and trusted his judgment. The Pacific Theater • (52:29) He next sent to the Pacific. He had to bail out again while in the Pacific, and landed in the ocean. • (52:50) After the second crash he was hospitalized for two weeks. • (53:11) He flew with many planes, and was assigned to a new crew. • (53:54) Frank saw combat in the Solomon Islands. • (54:15) He also saw combat at Guadalcanal. • (54:15) He found combat to be very unpleasant. • (55:01) The targets were usually enemy facilities, such as airports and sometimes harbors. �• (55:20) Air bases were the usual targets. • (55:37) Frank once flew over Truk Atoll, but the orders to bomb were not given, as it was only a reconnaissance mission. • (56:40) Estimates that 90% of his combat took place on the Solomon Islands. • (57:25)His crew attacked Choiseul and always encountered enemy fighters there. • (57:40) They also usually encountered enemy ground-fire. • (57:56) The Japanese vigorously defended their bases with anti-aircraft guns. • (58:15) The plane frequently came back with shrapnel and bullet holes, but no serious damage usually. • (58:40) Once, one of the planes lost a motor. • (59:25) They frequently flew reconnaissance, in addition to bombings. • (59:34) He doesn’t recall how many crews he flew with. He flew with four crews (Maleckas, XI) • (59:34) He doesn’t believe he flew on reconnaissance missions more than other navigators. • (01:00:02) Reconnaissance missions were very high priority. • (01:00:10) Reconnaissance missions usually lasted seven to eight hours of flight time, and about ten to twelve hours if pre and post mission procedures were included. • (01:01:04) Combat was usually within five hundred miles from their air base. • (01:01:20) The bombers usually had fighter escorts • (01:01:35) Japanese fighters were sometimes sent against them, and then the escorts would engage. • (01:02:01) Enemy fighters seldom got to the bombers because the fighter escorts usually took care of them. • (01:02:35) Frank flew fewer than twenty combat/bombing missions. • (01:02:46) Frank flew between twenty and thirty reconnaissance missions. • (01:02:57) The Japanese Navy was active in the area, and the Americans needed to be aware of their position, which was the main reason for the reconnaissance missions. �• (01:03:16) Sometimes, while on reconnaissance, they saw nothing, and other times they saw things they did not expect. • (01:03:39) The second time he was shot down, it was during a reconnaissance mission. • (01:04:44) While on reconnaissance, he saw a great variety of enemy ships, used mostly for transporting supplies. • (01:04:44) Once they flew over a ship that shot back, but that was rare. • (01:05:40) He did not encounter enemy fighters while on reconnaissance missions. • (01:05:18) They had standing orders to bomb a target while on a reconnaissance mission if an opportunity arose. • (01:05:41) Reconnaissance missions were longer-range than combat missions, so they carried fewer bombs to lighten the load. • (01:06:37) The vast majority (80-90%) of the time, the planes flew out of Guadalcanal, and sometimes out of the New Hebrides. • (01:07:14) He was never based farther North than Guadalcanal. • (01:07:27) He remained in the Air Corps until the completion of the War, and then he was put in a training post to train new navigators and pilots. • (01:07:56) He spent less than a year training, and was not made a trainer until later on. Second Plane Crash • (01:09:31) He earned a Purple Heart while in the Air Force. • (01:10:08) During his second crash, he did not buckle his parachute correctly. He landed in the Pacific Ocean. • (01:11:03) He spent a lot of time in the water. • (01:11:26) A B-24 dropped a life raft to him, but they forgot to inflate it so it sunk and he could not find it. • (01:11:56) He still had his life jacket, and he found several closed and floating bottles of oxygen. He tied the oxygen bottles to himself using his shoelaces. The gas-filled bottles helped him stay afloat better. • (01:12:39) The oxygen bottles gradually leaked and filled with water, making them sink. �• (01:13:11) He did not see any other swimmers while in the Pacific. He remained afloat for about two days. • (01:13:45) He thought he could see a highway on a nearby island. • (01:14:00) Frank thought he saw angels, which talked to him. The angles had wings on their back, and on their feet, which they used to skip on the water. • (01:14:55) The angels told Frank that they would not abandon him. • (01:15:21) He saw a door open in the island, and submarine came out of it. • (01:15:59) He had been losing strength, and was thinking about drowning himself, but the angels talked him out of it. • (01:16:35) He doesn’t think there really were angels with him that night he was seeing things due to the shock and exhaustion. • (01:16:46) After seeing the angels, he put his feet down, and touched the ground. • (01:17:22) He heard Japanese cars, but did not see any traffic on the island. • The island was undeveloped at the time, and no highway or cars were present. (01:17:46) • Once he was on shore he immediately slept, as he had no strength left. (01:18:04) • (01:18:46) When he awoke, he was prepared to fight any nearby enemy if need be. • (01:19:04) He had been exhausted because he had not slept at all for the two days he was at sea. He thinks this is also part of the reason he has a hard time remembering the episode. • (01:19:28) After waking up, he ate some plants and shot some fish. • (01:20:08) He also ate roots, and some crabs. • (01:20:34) He had to pull the claws and exoskeleton off the crab to get at the meat. • (01:21:07) He saw some natives in the ocean near the eastern end of the island. The island was Choiseul. • (01:21:38) He went to the natives for help. At first they were unsure what to do with him. Frank thinks they thought he was Japanese because of his sunburned skin. • (01:22:10) Eventually the natives took care of him, and fed him. �• (01:22:27) The natives were very nice people. • (01:22:56) One of the natives was an educated doctor. The natives used grenades to fish. • (01:23:49)They would throw a grenade, which made a large splash when it landed in the water. Fish would then swarm around it to inspect it and it would explode. Dead and stunned fish would then float up to the surface. • (01:24:43) There was a Coast Watch established in the area, which was staffed either by Australians or New Zealanders. • (01:25:23) The Coast Watch eventually found him. • (01:25:36) During peacetime, many members of the Coast Watch were local businessmen and entrepreneurs. During the war they had either refused to evacuate, been unable to evacuate, or had decided to contribute to the war effort. • (01:26:12) The Coast Watch made calls to get him off the island. • (01:27:49) The Coast Watch kept bases deep within the jungle. • (01:28:17) The Coast Watch was in communication with the American Headquarters at Guadalcanal. • (01:29:30) It took awhile for him to get picked up. It was very risky for them to land because of Japanese forces nearby. Additionally, it was a lot of trouble to pick up one man. • (01:30:07) Eventually a seaplane was sent out. • (01:30:23) The natives captured a Japanese prisoner to provide the Americans another incentive to send a plane. • (01:30:52) The natives and the Coast Watch were very well organized. They frequently provided the Americans with intelligence and prisoners. • (01:32:02) Frank thinks the plane was sent mostly for the prisoner. • (01:32:24) The seaplanes were also used to send supplies. • (01:32:36) The seaplane took him to Guadalcanal. • (01:32:52) After being brought back, his combat career in WWII ended and he began training recruits. • (01:33:45) He landed on the Philippines, the war was going well, and he was eligible for re-assignment. �• (01:34:23) When he got back, he met the superintendant Arthur Richter again. They needed a teacher, and so he taught at Frankfort High School. • (01:35:45) He taught from then on. • (01:35:54) He taught at Frankfort for twelve years, and then at Scottsdale. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MaleckasF Title A name given to the resource Maleckas Jr., Frank (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Maleckas Jr., Frank Description An account of the resource Frank Maleckas, Jr. was born in 1916 in Niagara Falls, New York, and grew up in Michigan. He attended Western Michigan University, and was drafted in 1941. After basic training in the infantry, he switched to the Army Air Corps, serving as a navigator on B-24s. He was the sole survivor of two air crashes, one in training and one in the Solomon Islands. He flew missions from Guadalcanal until the second crash, which he survived by keeping himself afloat for two days, making his way to shore on Choiseul, and being aided by natives and a coastwatcher. After his rescue, he was assigned to training duty. Frank wrote a book on his experiences: One 11 Millionth of a War. Elk Rapids, Mich.: Bookability Inc, 2000. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army. Air Corps World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-03-20 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/0a321187a9a907253ee8f2938318f32f.mp4 1413c1606030a77e1f922b135df800dd https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f233504d3d5e52e2a7a5ae3b373ad9ea.pdf b2b5f2381aeed207b2c51266a56c99ad PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Heather Majestic (40:51) Background Information (00:28) • Born May 11th 1971 in Pennsylvania. (00:29) • Served in the U.S. Navy. (00:34) • She had 2 sisters and both parents worked as teachers. (1:07) • Heather was a marching band in high school and served as the drum major. (1:15) • One of her sister’s served in the Air Force for 8 years. (2:50) • Both Heather and her sister served in the ROTC program as a way to get money to make Notre Dame a more affordable college choice in 1989. (3:15) • Part of being in the ROTC she was required to do summer training and was also required to take classes related to military work. (4:01) • Heather’s grandfather also served in the Navy and was awarded a purple heart. (4:39) • Heather’s involvement in the military was entirely voluntary. After a physical and fitness tests. She received 100% funding during college as a result of being in the ROTC. (5:30) Service in the ROTC (7:00) • She was required to take classes on Naval history and jargon. She also learned basic engineering and navigation. (7:12) • Every week the ROTC students had drill. Juniors and seniors were required to hold more leadership positions. (7:56) • A sailing and swimming exam needed to be passed by the students. (8:30) • In the summer the students were sent on cruses. She was sent on a ship to Guam and Japan. (9:00) • Picture of submarines Heather served on. The space was very cramp. There were not enough bed for everybody on the submarine. But because there is always someone on deck, there were always enough beds for the amount of people who were sleeping. (9:35) • Her grades were not good enough to fly jets but she was allowed to briefly fly a P3 reconnaissance aircraft. (12:16) • In Marine Week, the students were given M16s with blanks and practiced a beach landing. (13:14) • After completing the ROTC program at the end of college Heather was commissioned in 1993. (14:22) • After being commissioned she took 1 month off and then started back up and attended Navy Supply Course School in Athens, Georgia. (14:50) Supply Course School (16:00) • Heather then began her program in Supply course school at the University of Alabama [Georgia?]. The program lasted 6th months. During this time she lived off campus. (16:00) �• • • Most of the training was done as if the student would serve on a ship. One of the things she was taught to do was how to do food services and pay disbursement. (16:10) She also was taught on how to run a retail store and supply the ship. (17:31) After completing the course the students were given the choice as to what ship they wanted to go on. At the time (1993/1994) because Heather was a woman she was limited to serving on ships that were not in combat. (18:06) Service in Alaska (19:30) • She served for 1 year in Alaska on the Aleutian Islands with cryptologists. (19:36) • She did not have high enough security clearance as an officer to access most of the buildings she served at in the Aleutian Islands. (20:00) • After her year in service the law limiting women sailors to non-combat vessels was repealed. In 1994/1995 Heather then served aboard the USS Eisenhower (an aircraft carrier). (20:40) Service aboard the USS Eisenhower (22:30) • When heather joined the ship it was in the Mediterranean. She was flown first to Sicily, and then flown aboard the aircraft carrier. (22:33) • The ship was the first combat ship to have women aboard. (23:40) • The ship stopped in Turkey. When she was in port her sister in the Air Force met with Heather. (24:11) • Heather was sent to Haiti for 3 months while stationed on the Eisenhower to assist with the construction of roads and schools. There she was assigned with finding ways to purchase lumber and supplies. (25:22) • After returning to the ship the ship was doing sea trials. (27:12) • Heather was a lieutenant when she exited the Navy. (28:46) Shore Duty (29:19) • After serving aboard the USS Eisenhower Heather worked on shore duty with a Navy SEAL team. (29:19) • Heather worked for 2 years with the SEALs and requested to leave the military. In approx. 1997. (29:44) • She worked with SEAL team 2, witch served in cold weather, and purchased much of their supplies. (30:32) Women aboard Combat vessels (33:30) • There was sensitivity training done for the sailors before the women were to serve on combat vessels. (33:34) • There were pregnancies aboard ship but this was due to visiting families in port not relations between sailors. (34:31) • There were news crews that interviewed people aboard the first mixed gender crew that Heather served in. (35:41) �Final Thoughts (37:00) • She visited Japan and ground zero for the dropping of the atomic bombs. (37:08) • Her favorite place she visited was Nova Scotia. (37:36) • She learned how to scuba dive in Haiti.(39:00) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MajesticHNoId Title A name given to the resource Majestic, Heather (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Majestic, Heather Description An account of the resource Heather Majestic, born in 1971 in Pennsylvania, served in the U.S. Navy from 1993 to 1997. She went through the Naval ROTC program at Notre Dame University, and received her commission after graduation. She then took training in Naval Supply, and served for a year with a cryptology unit based in the Aleutian Islands. While she was there, the rules were changed to allow women to serve on combat vessels, and she was assigned to the aircraft carrier Eisenhower, and sailed with the ship on cruises in the Mediterranean and Caribbean, and spent three months on detached duty in Haiti on a humanitarian mission. She was then transferred to shore duty where she served as the supply officer for Seal Team 2. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Swift, Morgan (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Navy Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-05-25 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/2a067bdbda22e80ecc36eb01dc5f44e0.pdf 5541a54461476874cfe5f3272e570875 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History Project Simon Maier (18:27) Background Information (00:26)  Before being drafted in the fall of 1954, Simon was a farmer, part time carpenter and was married. (00:29) Service (1:00)        Though Simon’s unit was ordered to go overseas, the unit never left the U.S. (1:03) He was an electrician and was assigned to the 6th Armored Division on the west coast of the U.S. (1:26) His unit was later utilized by the Air Force to construct runways. (2:00) In the winter of 1956 while assigned to the Air Force there was a flood. The Army was called in to assist with clean up and a bridge construction. Simon’s unit assisted with this task which included moving a house. (2:24) The house the men had to move was cut in half by the cable they would use to move it. The man who owned the house was frustrated because he wanted to salvage the lumber. (5:08) One night after the flood occurred, the levies broke a second time. This resulted in a solder’s wife and child dyeing in a nearby flooded town. (6:20) While the National Guard was sending men over to train on a firing range Simon was at, the truck flipped and 3 men were killed. (7:35) Life During Service (8:00)    Simon served on duty 8-10 hours a day. He was allowed to leave base to eat dinner at home but only had 45 minutes. (8:01) Simon recalls that the food was usually very good. (9:16) Because his family did not have a telephone in his house, Simon mostly wrote letters to keep touch with them. (9:46) Training (10:26)    After he completed training Simon was sent to electrician school and demolition school. (10:46) On Christmas, the men were able to have friends over for a little party. (11:17) Simon was trained on the M1 rifle as well as the .50 caliber machine gun. (11:50) Effects of service (12:15)    When Simon was in the military the men he served with were fairly diverse and mostly simple common sort of men. Overall he enjoyed his experience. (12:19) Simon has made and retained some very close friendships as a result of his service. (13:00) He does not recall there being any fights or very much crime where he served. (13:55) �Service cont. (14:55)     Simon was originally trained to set up camps from scratch. He specifically was trained to setup the entirety of electrical systems. These skills were never put into practice. (15:00) During the flood that Simon served in, the Army did help restore the area. (15:50) The military base even opened up part of their quarters during the flood for civilians that had no place to go. (17:00) Meeting the people Simon served with was by far one of the most rewarding aspects of Simon’s service. (17:30) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MaierS1361V Title A name given to the resource Maier, Simeon (Interview outline), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Maier, Simeon Description An account of the resource Simon Maier served in the U.S. Army from 1954-1956. He trained as an electrician and got assigned to the 6th Armored Division on the west coast of the U.S. For most of Simon's service his unit was contracted by the Air Force to build runways. He also assisted in pickup after a large flood in 1956. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dutcher, Hannah (Interviewr) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-11-10 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e1790ac3d4ffffe921115687e325670c.mp4 af21187bca5ac16629a9c9766a1c2052 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a8cec137cbe4dee98311bc60936b97c6.pdf 5ee96d1020db95bcaa37bd975d820a68 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Donald Mahoney (40:00) (00:01) Background Information • Donald was born in Revere, Massachusetts in January of 1931 • His dad was a truck driver and his mom wrote for the Boston Globe • He joined the Reserves first in early 1948 then the Marines and went to Parris Island, SC (2:25) Training • • • • • • Donald described basic training as “hell on Earth” and “hot and humid” They had to change their outfits 4 or 5 times a day He left SC and went to NH to a Marine barracks and was a security guard at the front gate His job for a year and a half was to check people coming in and out In march of 1950 he went to Camp LeJeune, NC and was assigned to the 2nd battalion of the 6th Marines for combat training On August 13, 1950 he took a train to Camp Pendleton for 2 weeks of advanced combat training and moved to the 7th Marines (5:35) Deployment to Korea • • • • • • • • • • • On September 1, 1950 he boarded the USS Bayfield It took 14 days to get to Kobe, Japan and then to South Korea Donald got seasick, but not for the entire time He didn’t know much about what was going on in Korea at the time As a Headquarters Company they supported the Line Companies Sometimes he was a runner between companies They first went to Seoul, South Korea and they secured it on September 29, 1950 That night a bullet grazed him across the face On October 3, 1950 he went to Hungnam and boarded a ship called the General Sultan They went up and down the coast and got off at Fort Mason After that they moved to central Korea (11:55) Attacked by the Chinese • On June 17, 1951 the Chinese fired mortars at Donald’s unit and he was hit in the left leg and chest • He was taken by helicopter to a MASH unit and then took a train to Pusan • Donald boarded a hospital ship called the USS Haven and spent almost a month there �• • • • He felt that “the doctors and nurses were incredible” He would read and play cards to pass the time He was able to catch up with a friend who he had not spoken with since boot camp After getting off the ship he returned to the front line for a few days (15:51) Conditions in Korea • • • • They slept on the ground Received C rations and cigarettes The temperature got down to 20 to 30 below zero He couldn’t clean himself up that well (18:55) Back to the US • • • • • • • • • • They landed in San Diego, CA and then went to Camp Pendleton for processing In 1952 he was stationed in Boston, MA He did clerical work on reserve reports Met Ted Williams when he came to the base Donald spent a month at a Naval hospital in Chelsea, MA because of a shrapnel wound from a year ago Donald then went to Quantico, VA for 3.5 years where he was a data entry analyst and transferred text to code He went to Kansas City then to Chicago While in Chicago he was up near Grand Rapids, MI and met his wife They went to El Toro, a Marine Corps Air Station in Santa Monica, CA He was in the 5th Data Processing Platoon and kept records of Air Wings for 3.5 years (26:00) Back Overseas • • • • In 1964 Donald went to Iwakuni, Japan Donald went to the Olympics and visited Hiroshima He was stationed there for 13 months In January of 1968 he went back to Kansas City and retired from the Marines (30:40) Post Retirement • • Donald worked at machine tool factory building surface grinders for 32 years His position was a Production Expert (31:34) After Retiring From Work • Donald joined the Korean War Veterans club �• • • There are about a dozen of them that meet at the VFW, and belong to a national organization called Tell America They go to schools, rest homes, churches, and hospitals to tell their personal stories and show visuals He also belongs to the American Legion � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MahoneyD Title A name given to the resource Mahoney, Donald (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mahoney, Donald Description An account of the resource Donald Mahoney was born in Revere, Massachusetts in January of 1931. He joined the Marines in 1948 and was sent to South Korea to fight in the war in September of 1950. Shortly after arriving they took Seoul, South Korea and that same night Donald was grazed by a bullet and earned his first Purple Heart. He earned his second Purple Heart when he was attacked by Chinese mortar fire and hit with shrapnel. After the war he was stationed as a data analyst in Boston, Quantico, Kansas City, Chicago, Santa Anna, Iwakuni Japan, and then back at Kansas City. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-07-17 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f87f4865e161fefdf4c3df8be2ddeac1.mp4 6d2c05c2d821b55f966128c80d48cc61 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7537d3eca3aab109f56fb567115e9185.pdf 9cab062c169115c969be6c2a9e7e86ae PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Robert Machiele (06:56) (00:15) Background Information • Robert was born on March 7, 1944 in Zeeland, MI • His father worked at a casket factory • Robert worked making kitchen cabinets before the war (01:41) Training • Robert went through 8 weeks of basic training • He then spent 8 weeks in wheeled vehicle mechanics school at Fort Knox (02:08) Adaptation • There were more than 40 men per room • They did what they had to so they would get along • He was in Virginia for a year (02:45) Leaving the US • Robert was first sent to California then flew to Anchorage, Okinawa, and then Vietnam • He didn’t see any action but he saw a lot of destruction • Robert was a mechanic and worked on the Road Construction Company • He was able to send letters home and occasionally phone home • On his days off he would sometimes ride with the truck drivers (04:26) Back to the US • • • • • • Robert went home in 1968 before the war ended His family met him at the airport to greet him Some people in the community were negative because of the unpopular war It was easy for him to adjust to being home because he was not gone long Robert kept in touch with some of the friends he made for a few years Being in the Military and in Vietnam helped him appreciate his freedom and become more mature � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MachieleR Title A name given to the resource Machiele, Robert (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Machiele, Robert Description An account of the resource Robert Machiele was drafted into the US Army in 1966 and served with a road construction unit first in Virginia and then in Vietnam. He was in Vietnam in 1967-1968, where he was not involved in combat, but saw a good deal of destruction. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McCarthy, Nicholas (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-05-16 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/374c6b1911135ec572dabc75b5b11069.mp4 3dc9330be1514ae4de8ab04772d5dae6 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f3395aceba2b6f992e81ad504a2132fa.pdf 59db1f5c5102fa3d08b22e7c83c1a849 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Eddie MacDonald Length: 35:11 (00:25) Background Information • • • • Eddie was born on a farm in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1936 His father worked for GM and spent time working on their small fruit and dairy farm He went to school in Byron Center, Michigan and graduated in 1954 After graduating Eddie began a plumbing apprenticeship (3:30) Army Enlistment • The Army had started a new program that allowed people in college or an apprenticeship to enlist for a period of only 6 months • Eddie enlisted in 1957; the Korean War had ended, but many were still worried about the Cold War • He went through training at Fort Leonard Wood for 8 weeks • They had class sessions, physical training, bivouacking, and rifle training • Eddie worked well with the discipline and later felt that everyone should be in the service for at least 6 months • Many of his drill sergeants were Korean War veterans (9:35) Advanced Training • Eddie was allowed to return home for Christmas Break and then was shipped to California for advanced infantry training • The fort was a very large and modern facility • They began working more on infantry with rapid fire machine guns, 30 calibers, BARs, 105s, and bazookas • They would go bivouacking for 2-3 weeks at a time for field training • They did not get many breaks or much time to relax • At the end of the 6 months Eddie became part of a control group that was similar to a reserve unit that was to be maintained for 6 years (15:55) Back to Michigan • Eddie returned to his home in Michigan and continued in the plumbing business and got married in 1959 • In 1961 Kennedy had called on the country to enlist and Eddie received a letter saying that he had been “invited to rejoin” the service • He was able to apply for temporary deferment for a few weeks, but would ultimately have to rejoin �• • • The entire 32nd Division of reserves had been called up and they were mostly from Wisconsin with a few from Michigan Eddie was sent in a train from Chicago to Fort Lewis in Washington They were not sure where they were going, though most figured they were going to Berlin or Vietnam (19:40) Fort Lewis • They later found that the 4th Division of Fort Lewis had been sent to Vietnam and they had been sent to Fort Lewis to replace them • The men began training again and working on the rifle range • They kept hearing rumors that they would soon be sent to Vietnam • Eddie’s minister’s cousin lived in Tacoma and he often visited his home and had dinner with his family • Eddie’s wife later moved to Washington and they lived together off the base (30:00) After Service • Eddie and his family moved back to Michigan and he continued working in his plumbing business • He had been in Washington for one year and was done with the reserves afterwards • Eddie stayed in contact with many of the men in his unit • Eddie had learned to be respectful, earned discipline and integrity • The time in the service had opened his eyes to the rest of the world � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MacDonaldE Title A name given to the resource MacDonald, Eddie (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource MacDonald, Eddie Description An account of the resource Eddie MacDonald enlisted in the US Army in 1957. He trained as an infantryman at Fort Leonard Wood in Missouri. After six months, he was sent home in reserve status and then called up in 1961. He served two years, much of his time spent at Fort Lewis in Washington, and was not sent overseas. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Byron Area Historic Museum (Byron Center, Mich.) BCTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-11-08 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ed69e28efa630a4942bc30434adbfbbe.mp4 47eb9d8f260a889e0b2ad249a32e5da8 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/91490fbb012f28505933f9f795b7b7a7.pdf d14a7179843429f38cce32b104649a22 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview    Ken Maatman (1:20:27) • • • • • (3:30:00) Grand Rapids Michigan April 24 1920 Graduated from Grand Rapids Central Worked for Western Electric Company for one year after graduation Went to Grand Rapids Junior College till Pearl Harbor was announced (4:29:00)Enlists in the Army by January 29 1942 • • • Western Electric Company Installed equipment in Bell Telephone offices- Holland and Grand Haven area Crew of 5 guys Installed all of the wiring in the office to hook up equipment • • (5:19:00)Enlists in the Army 21 years old Outrage at the attack on Pearl Harbor-immediately wanted to be a part of events Went to United States Army Recruiting office –Grand Rapids Post Office Working for the phone company automatically went him and others who worked for the phone company to the signal core Reported to Fort Custer within a week Father felt it was a good idea, Mother did not think the same • • • • • • (8:03:00) Fort Custer The guys are separated by what was on the paper work Acres of barracks and men walking around as Ken gets off the bus Reported to Barracks-spent 3 months in basic training Received uniform upon arrival-was not custom fit (10:38:00)Began day at 5:30 a.m. for role call Calisthenics, breakfast, and then basic training • • • (12:49:00)Camp Crowder, Missouri New post specializing in Signal Core The Camp was not finished-part of their job was clean-up construction mess Classroom settings become part of their routine to learn Signal Corps • • • • �• Selected to go to Fort Monmouth New Jersey • (16:15:00)Fort Monmouth New Jersey Learned all aspects of Signal Corps Climbing telephone poles, laying wires etc. Ken enjoyed doing this job and felt he wanted to do something that benefited the military and the goal they had in the war Trained here for about 3 months • (17:35:00)191st Signal Corps Came from all different posts around the country • • • • (19:00:00)Joined 82nd Infantry division-Camp McCain-Mississippi Tar paper shacks Trained for role while working with infantry-approximately 3-4 months Ken wanted to apply for OCS-felt he wasn’t doing enough for his country This gave him the rank of 2nd Lieutenant upon graduation • • • • • (21:28:00)Fort Monmouth New Jersey OCS training Advanced basics and leadership role Became officer giving orders to recruits Continuously exchanged letters with family members Graduated as officer-no formal ceremony but did receive a certificate • (24:25:00)Back to the 82nd Infantry division-Officer Ken wanted to do more-applied for the Army/Air Core-accepted • • • • • (25:09:00)Sent to basic training Maxwell Field Alabama Stayed for primary training-PT17’s-3 months Became Pilot-wanted to fly Mitchell Bomber Advance training-single wing model plane Started learning maneuvers Ken developed Vertigo-released back to the Signal Corps • • (27:15:00)Fort Jackson-Signal Core-191st –South Carolina Received overseas assignment-didn’t know where though Needed China, Burma, India specialist • • • �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Constant state of flux on base-hard to establish relationship at this point with the guys Officers attended briefings, discussed men to be transferred, calisthenics, drills, and weapon training Ken was pulled out of the company to go to Wilmington California to accompany signal equipment and training equipment to Calcutta India (32:10:00)Wilmington California Waited around for 3 months-checked in daily waiting for ship to come in Norwegian freighter contracted to take Signal companies equipment escorted by one officer for each division On water 53 days before arriving in Calcutta India Traveled alone at sea doing a zigzag course Total of 7 officers from the Signal Corps aboard ship Meanwhile 191st infantry being mobilized to meet equipment in India The men had no idea what to expect in India Ken had never been out of the country before Ken noticed the people were very different in India that unloaded the ship-they were very small and dark skinned people (37:50:00)The guys went off ship looking for a place to stay and there was a mass amount of people-they didn’t think they would ever find a place to stay so they returned to the ship (38:32:00)Ledo India Equipment had to go by train or convoy 700-800 miles north from Calcutta to Ledo Headquarters for the supplies 191st infantry came to Ledo nearly 2 months ahead of Ken Companies separated according to specialties on stations all across the new Burma road They were installing pipe lines and communications down the Burma road also There were battles going on in Southern Burma (42:00:00)Burma was a jungle-nearly 150 ft deep Jungle carried mites that would give you lethal amounts of Scrub Typhus Mosquitoes carried Malaria Cholera, Dysentery, infections from leeches you couldn’t remove from your body 6,900 were killed in old campaign of China Burma India and the same were taken out for illness (45:00:00)Groups of men deployed to various locations to service communication devices �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 1,000 officers and 700,000 [ed. note—these numbers are much too high] Signal Corps men were headquartered here Some men were stationed in jungles where the Anoka head hunters were located along the India Burma borders Quartermasters and engineers would send messages telling them where they needed devices set up Had advantage on knowing what was going on with the war because they would monitor and record communications going over wire (48:40:00)Aircraft warning personal wandered into Naga area. They were greeted by Naga men with spears and were put up for the night with a guard to stay with them. They had bomb fire ceremonies and the men thought they were hostile toward them. Turns out that they were fighting off bad spirits from the aircraft personnel to protect them. Recorded message said that ‘the Nagas had gone to a village about 5 or 6 miles from them and wiped out a village of 100 people. The Nagas came back with 30 heads. We have pictures to prove it. Please send grenades back on next drop. We may need them’ The men were installing, repairing, replacement equipment (51:50:00)The officers traveled down the Burma road supervising the men and the progress Kun Ming-brought supplies to here-ended up flying over hump to Kunming, China Traveling on the Burma Road-the road was carved out of the mountains or thru the jungles. It was like riding on a shelf with total drops on the side. Many trucks fell off road and couldn’t be recovered. At times the rain would wash out parts of the roads and would have to wait for days for the engineers to clear it. (54:00:00) Monsoon season from May to October 110-150 inches of rainfall in this time Aircraft that flew over didn’t have doors on the plane and passengers would have to hold onto a rope to move around on the plane The ‘hump’ was the Himalaya Mountains-change in weather made this area dangerous Ken was in an instant hail storm-Pilot circled and climbed in one location until over the hail storm (57:00:00) Ken was responsible for Burma road leading from Burma to Ledo and turning into Kunming China for communication equipment 191st Infantry had no combat losses Had one C47 that went down-courier on board-sent out rescue party that failed to reach him into the jungle 2 men on other plane crashed over same area the first went down and they were also never heard from again �• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • (100:38:00) They had the sense they were winning the war The Great Retreat out of Burma-British and Americans were badly defeated [referring to earlier events] Points determined who would be going home first-from one month to five months (103:35:00) VE [VJ?] Day-they had picked it up thru the radio-Ken and the men were happy that the war was over (1:04:20:00)Calcutta India Big cities were strange in India-many people living on the streets People in villages were more friendly-lived in shacks City people were disease ridden, deformed, many beggars Made baseball diamond and volleyball court while they were in India At the end of war they had little to do. Much of the equipment was dumped or given to the Chinese. Gave them plenty of time for recreation. (1:07:13:00) Two men made movie-8mm tape-recorded events while the 191st Infantry was overseas and brought it home-transferred it to video tape-Casper Fabragal and James Baskerville, both New Yorkers made the film-still show the film at reunions (1:10:45:00)Heading home Brought into staging area for 1 to 2 weeks waiting for your ship Ken’s ship went to Fort Lewis Seattle-troop ship-took 32 days-the ship was full (1:13:55:00) There were docks loaded with people waiting to greet the men on the ship. The men were very proud of their accomplishments. Fort Lewis-staging area before going to Camp McCoy Wisconsin Discharge process involved going back through your records and checking to see what illnesses you had while you were in the service Ken can still not give blood because he had a touch of Malaria while he was overseas (1:15:25:00) Parents met Ken at Grand Rapids train station-very pleased to have him home Two other brothers of Ken’s were also in service-all came home alive *Ken is very proud of the opportunity to accomplish the tasks that are put on officers in the military at this time. He is very proud of the opportunity to do something that big. The memories of things that he seen, with cruelties and discomforts, had great �affect on individuals. Feels the work he did had big effect on the work he did after he was out of the military. *(1:19:00) Ken shares that when he was in Kohima, there are cemeteries’ where American Soldiers are buried and he found a sign on one of the crosses where a soldier was buried. “When you go home, tell them of us. For your tomorrow, we gave our today.” �. The United States Military Awards of 1st Lt Kenneth B. Maatman for service with (he United States Army Pacific Theater, World War II and U.S. Army Reserves Bronze Star Medal Service: All Services Instituted: 1944 .' Criteria: Awarded for heroicor meritorious achievement or service. Army Good Conduct Medal Service: Army Instituted: 1941 Criteria: Exemplary conduct, efficiency and fidelity during threeyears of enlisted service. American Campaign Medal Service: All Services Instituted: 1942 Criteria: Service during 1941-46 withinthe American Theater. '" Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal Service: All Services Instituted: 1942 Criteria: Awarded for service in the Asiatic-Pacific Theater during 1941-46. World War II Victory Medal Service: All Services Instituted: 1945. Criteria: Awarded for service in the U.S. Armed Forces, 1941-1946. China War Memorial Medal Country: Republic of China Instituted: 1945 Criteria: Awarded to personnel who served in the ChinaTheater, 1939 - 1945. Combat Service Commemorative Service Medal Honors military personnel who servedin an overseas combat theater. ". Asiatic Pacific Victory Commemorative Medal <Victory over Japan) Honors military personnel who served in the Pacific Theaterduring WorId War Il. World War IT Victory Commemorative Medal Honors service in the U.s. Armed Forces during World WarIl. Overseas Service Commemorative Medal Honors service in an overseas theater or expeditionary operation. u.S. Army Commemorative Medal Honors honorable service in the U.S. Armybetween 1775 and 2000. National Guard and Reserve Commemorative Medal Honors service in the U.s. National Guardand Reserves over the past 200 years. �,;.... ,. I ". ~ . 'I' Pi'."" ;.~: ~ -, ·r ~, .c".>;··", " ~/ ",:.~I: ~J . :Ir.'- ', .. ~ . ' ~')"""":' ..r:,·'.\.['~.{:;0·."". . tJJ:~'" ___ . . _ .... \ .-;« ~ rJ\::tj .'.~ . ....,.. . - ~._ '... ...... __.-.. ~ .'-------,. .'l-<\~.:l' , .... .:'\....I'--J ..·.·,_.j--.~~ .. ~ .. -,:/: ,,~ .... ~., ;"'",,.-.JJiit.. - ...'-. -._1 :-. . ~ Phyllis Koning 1/ L7 ( tJ V ?k ~1 y- .?1b==-.:...:;tA...=----._- _ -~chM.~F= ~~ Z-- CL~~~_M-~_.tl'0-~ _~ iJd~~#t~~ __ ~ -~~_.~--~~­ _J_~1--C_~~ .. /f~C;U~­ ~~--~ --._­ ___ Lrj.L~ ~ Z2. ~:t~ ~_ ~A~s!fe,_, _t..._'!=~;=­ ~.u_~w_~~+­ -~!=-f-L-Ic~J-#a...~~ ~ .~~~~/lL~ --~~~~~ -~i ~ awuLIa.LLi ;1 ilL The Games of the XXVIII Olympiad Athens • 13-29 August 2004 DS311 /6 t-/ ca» - (;).e ~ ()A.e.. ~~~ ~,~, --£Y ~ ~ ~M ~ 7t r 4J: ~ fcJ...f)" ~ r~ /lA.L- ~ ~ ~p~~~~ ~~~-~ l~ ~~~/~F . . ~••. L \ . ~ ,'J I~ ~~ ~­ , .. ~~ ~ , �Velma R. Maatman 1358 W. Thornberry ~t., SE Grand Rapids, Michigan 49546 August 20, 2004 Mr. Michael Lloyd, Editor The Grand Rapids Press 155 Michigan, NW Grand Rapids, Michigan 49503 Dear Mr. Lloyd: My husband and I think the enclosed article from The Modesto Bee newspaper in Modesto, California, shoUld appear in The Grand Rapids Press. I hope you agree. Col. Koning's article appeared in The Modesto Bee newspaper July 25, 2004. This is an account-oI what the United States is doing in Iraq to rebuild services for the Iraqi people. Terrorism is only one part of what is going on in Iraq. Col. Koning returned from Iraq July 1st after a six month tour of duty as Commander of the Southern Engineer District where he was engaged in the reconstruction of civil services. He had 4,000 Iraqis working for him. Colonel Thomas L. Koning was born in Royal Oak, Michigan, graduated from the West Point Academy, and now resides in Concord, Massachusetts, with his wife and two children 'where he is the commander of the New England Engineer District outside of Boston. His parents, William and Phyllis Koning, were born and raised in Grand Rapids and lived here until after graduating from ~he University of Michigan. They now reside in Modesto, Cali­ fornia. Col. Koning's grandfather, Gillis Vandenberg, worked for. The Grand Rapids Press over 40 years. Please give this article your attention. Thank you. For more information you may contact: Judy Sly, editor of Opinions Page The Modesto Bee Modesto, CalTIOrnia Phone: 209 578-2317 E-Mail: jsly@modbee.com Sincerely, o~~ It? ~"'---' Velma Maatman (Mrs~ Kenneth) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MaatmanK Title A name given to the resource Maatman, Kenneth (Interview outline, video, and papers), 2004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Maatman, Kenneth Description An account of the resource Ken Maatman was an Officer in the Army Signal Corps during World War II. He supervised the installation and maintenance of communications lines in the China/Burma/India theater, particularly along the Burma Road in the last two years of the war. Letters and military documents appended to outline. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boring, Frank (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2004-09-09 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/775cebdf47f36282deae1147a73ca584.mp4 c3ae25b7559a8b42e07156128a345830 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f62c55732feaddd7b18096bf460de350.pdf 49e90600927c29ca8e4465376a879a9e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Alan Lust (23:15) (01:00) Background Information • Served in the Air Force, 1971-1979 • He was born in Ohio and worked for a bus company that his uncle owned before joining the service • He worked there from the time he was 18 till he was 21 and does not recommend working for anyone that you are related to • He went to visit a Navy recruiter, but they were at lunch • There was a Marines and Army recruiter, but he was not interested in those branches, so he wound up at the Air Force recruitment building (3:10) Travel • Al traveled to an air base in Germany • He was in Thailand for 6 months • He spent 5 years working with bombers in North Carolina • Al spent his last year of service in Korea (3:50) Thailand • They had heard that the Viet Cong were planning to attack their base • They were mortared and shot at many times in Thailand and it was not fun at all • Al was never too fearful because he never experienced heavy combat • He worked with F-4s that carried many radar guided missiles (7:30) Entertainment • The men played a lot of cards • They wrote letters back to their families and friends • He never called the states because it cost about $9 per minute • He was very stressed out and drank heavily, which he is not proud of (11:00) Christmas in Thailand in 1972 • They spent Christmas loading bombs; it was not a good Christmas knowing that what you were doing might kill many people (13:45) The End of His Time in the Service • Al left Korea and headed towards California • He had decided that he wanted to go to college • He was in North Carolina when the war ended and he thought it was all a huge waste; there were so many deaths and we did not accomplish our goal �(17:05) Al’s Career • He wanted to go to college to become a Pastor • Al worked on a mission dealing with the homeless for 16 years • He was a rescue mission chaplain and a substance abuse counselor (18:20) Looking Back • Al believes that war is terrible and it is ironic because there are things that are worse than war, such as “passiveness in the face of evil” • He believes that was is necessary when power lies in the hands of someone evil • He has gained much pride and satisfaction from his time spent in the service • A military experience is very beneficial for any young man; it provides responsibility and experience • Al’s highest rank was E-5 and he was in the Air Force from 1971-79 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LustJ_001A Title A name given to the resource Lust, Alan John (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lust, Alan John Description An account of the resource Al Lust was born in Ohio in 1950 and enlisted in the United States Air Force in 1971. Al served in Germany, Thailand, and Korea. While in Thailand, Al worked on flight missions against the Viet Cong. Al stated that he was mortared and shot at many times but never experienced any heavy combat. After his time in the Air Force, Al worked on a mission dealing with the homeless for 16 years. He also was a rescue mission chaplain and a substance abuse counselor. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McAlpine, John (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) Video recordings United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans United States. Air Force Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-05-24 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/fa42a7f6d514d7553f4626098a0e95ad.mp4 9337b675c91321fe05f9bc3a51530a7f https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5445c10dd4be8ae91ffeadc9a222bc11.pdf a9af2daf04a17e22e516e50faa4fecae PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee’s Name: William Lysdahl Length of Interview (00:26:44) Background: (0:00:14)  Served in the Navy  Enlisted because it was his duty  Was 17, his father signed for him, thought it was a good idea Enlistment: (0:01:34)  A lot of physical training, did not consider it really hard  Boat training at Great Lakes  Gunner training at base in Virginia  New Orleans, got their ship  Went to Boston, set sail from Boston to the Panama Canal, then to the Pacific, where he stayed for the rest of the war  Not many casualties in his unit  Most frightening encounter was a typhoon (0:03:30)  Made necklaces out of seashells for their girlfriends  Story about Patrol duty and a bombardment of a Japanese island (0:05:05)  Received medals for participating in war-zones  Wrote letters back home, that was the only way to keep in touch  Thought the food was good o Had steak o Was a lot better than ground soldiers’ rations o Had plenty of supplies  Sank 8 submarines without gun-battles (0:07:30)  Slept down below o Had to cover up mattress with a fire-proof cover o Eventually hung up a hammock because it smelled so bad  For entertainment they boxed or watched movies o Every 3rd day on an island, they’d go ashore and play ball or other sports  One of the officers almost got washed overboard when he lost his footing (0:10:08)  Liked all the soldiers he worked with o Did not share the same opinions as the officers  Did not keep a journal, and was glad of it, because he didn’t want to relive deaths and battles After the War: (0:11:50)  Never considered re-enlisting  Was in the Pacific when he was discharged. Stopped in Hawaii, then to Los Angeles �             Wanted a glass of cold milk most; all they had was powdered milk on the ship and it was too warm Went to work, and took a few night classes when he returned Made a lot of friends, but did not keep in touch o Had friends in Kentucky, the Dakotas Joined the American Legion Was a salesman after the war Does not regret joining the war o Does not agree with certain decisions, but does not regret his time American Legion o Gives out scholarships o Sends boys to different organizations o Work with the community, have fish-frys His service time does not affect his life Remembers he was in St. Louis seeing a movie when Pearl Harbor was attacked o Remembers wanting to fight, but was too young at 16 Remembers anchoring on an island, could see the bottom of the ocean (0:16:48) o Looked like an aquarium, could see all the fish o Skipped from island to island o Rescued pilots and crewmen from downed planes Served on the USS Spangler (0:19:08) o Did not have big enough guns to take on a cruiser Chose the Navy because he thought he’d have a chance to see more of the world o Saw as much as he wanted to Discharged on December 1st, 1945, at 20 years old � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LysdahlW Title A name given to the resource Lysdahl, William (Interview transcript and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lysdahl, William Description An account of the resource William Lysdahl entered the Navy at age 17 during World War II. He served in the Pacific Ocean on ships conducting antisubmarine patrols. He was discharged on December 1st, 1945, at the end of the war. He was 20 years old. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Balczak, Melissa (Interviewer) Miller, Leigh (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Navy Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-06-08 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/7de259065388008bc16d0bd0820fde58.mp4 227b5084a32d6e5dbb50011cb18292d1 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e25b125e3cf10f3a0ef6da76ce89a983.pdf 267259e861e7c6e512169b5e63a589a2 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: World War II Interviewee’s Name: Jerry Lyons Length of interview (0:45:04) (00:26) Background  Born December 20, 1922 (00:33)  Served in the 32nd division, 107th Medical Battalion, Company D during World War II (00:37)  Left service as a T-4 (01:00)  Served in Australia, New Guinea, and the Philippine Islands (01:19)  Was living in Grand Rapids, MI when drafted (01:25) (01:52) Training  Departed for Fort Custer in January, 1943. Remembers that it was very cold. (01:57)  Sent to Camp Wood, Texas. Trip took about three days. (02:26)  Boot camp mostly included marching in various conditions. Describes training with tank destroyers. (3:22)  Was transferred to a different camp after about four months. (05:27)  Traveled to New York City by train, saw the Statue of Liberty. Told that they were going to the South Pacific (06:15) (06:44) Arrival and Training in South Pacific  Traveled by convoy down the East Coast, through the Panama Canal, and then to Brisbane, Australia (06:44)  Jerry traveled on the U.S.S. Uruguay, which was a South American luxury liner at one time that was refitted for the troops. Trip took about a month. (07:32)  His ship nearly hit a liberty ship that had a broken rudder (08:11)  Had gun practice while on board (09:00)  Dropped anchor off the island of Bora Bora. Describes his experience swimming and their interactions with the natives. (09:26)  Describes arrival in Australia. (11:50)  Marched to Camp Asbury, about 30 miles out of Brisbane, joined 32nd division. (13:17)  Describes the friendships he acquired and the occasional trips into Brisbane. (14:07)  Describes training in Newcastle. (16:48)  Traveled to Hollandia, New Guinea, and then left for Leyte, Philippines on D+4 (17:14) (18:30) Service in South Pacific  Describes first experience fighting (18:30)  Describes experience driving the ambulance on Luzon, Philippines (19:48)  Sniper had hit their ambulance during an attack on their camp. Bullet hit about two �inches from where his head had been. (21:10)  Describes some close calls while traveling through mountains. Taken to hospital once he had been hit in the shoulder. Returned to the unit afterwards and received Purple Heart. (21:47)  Describes how the ambulance he worked in dealt with certain weather and terrain conditions. (23:56)  Received Bronze Medal for the retrieval of a wounded person. Also received Good Conduct Medal (25:06)  Kept in touch with family through letters. Family made a record in which they all sang and sent it to him. Listened to it often. (26:15)  Proposed to his wife while in the service because he didn’t want to lose her. Married her when he returned to the United States in February (27:50)  Describes recreational activities he enjoyed while in the Philippines. (30:00)  Describes rescuing a wounded man with three other men while under fire from a sniper. (31:37)  Briefly describes military circumcision. (35:13)  Recalls that some men were slightly unscrupulous, but most were honest and dependable. (35:50) (37:00) Post-Service  Returned to California by boat and then returned home in February 1946. (37:14)  Worked as a truck driver in the early 1950s. Worked for Frieden Calculators and later did sheet metal and furnace work. (38:57)  Military experience taught him that it is necessary to have an army to protect our country. Was glad that he could serve his country, but decided not to continue serving because he cared about his family. (39:46)  Thinks that the military discipline and getting away from home was good for him. (40:40)  Would hate to see family members go into the service, but emphasizes the power or prayer. (41:04)  In spite of all of the negative aspects of the United States, thinks that we live in the best country. Thinks that those who have served their country should be proud. (42:35)  Recalls attending a veterans’ parade and realizing that everyone was there to thank them. Realized that even though he might not have contributed much, as a group the military accomplished great things. (42:58) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LyonsJ Title A name given to the resource Lyons, Jerry R. (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lyons, Jerry R. Description An account of the resource Jerry Lyons, born December 20, 1922, was drafted while living in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1943. He served during World War II as a part of the 32nd Division, 107th Medical Battalion, Company D. His service took him across the South Pacific to Australia, New Guinea, and the Philippine Islands, where his unit supported the division in combat on Leyte and Luzon. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Lyons, Jacob (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-05-12 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b72738f3e68ff70985d6f7d2b22ab908.mp4 122b81de54276dc260dcce5ff9ef817b https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/503b12b874d2dba9f89036ad147c53d2.pdf cd548a290aba682d9051f931de6d2710 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Glenn Lyons (2:15:27) Background Information (1:55)                            His grand parents immigrated to the U.S. and lived in South Dakota, Illinois, and then Michigan. (2:48) His grandparents worked as farmers in the early 1900s late 1800s. (3:32) His father was the oldest of 4 children. (2 boys and 2 girls) (4:00) His father worked in a furniture factory in Grand Rapids, Michigan. (5:11) Glenn was born April 4th 1920 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. (5:28) He is the 2nd youngest of 6 children. (3 girls and 3 boys) (5:45) At the age of 2, his family moved out to Silver Lake, Michigan, in 1922. (6:57) After several years in Silver Lake the family moved once more to Cannonsburg, Michigan in 1925. This is where Glenn began school. (8:16) The school was a 1 room school house with 2 stories. 7th grade and up was upstairs, downstairs were all the other grades. (8:34) After several years in Cannonsburg he moved south of Rockford, Michigan. (8:58) He then moved once more in Rockford and attended White Swan public school. (9:58) As a child he enjoyed ice fishing. (10:30) When going to school he had to carry his lunch to school every day. He recalls being intimidated by the older kids in his class who were older. (12:30) A pot belly stove was used to heat the school. (14:00) At age 15 he worked for 20 dollars a month in 1935. He was hired to milk cows by hand and assists in a saw mill. (14:27) He graduated elementary school in after 8th grade (approx. 1935) (17:44) He graduated from Pratt Lake one room school house. (18:05) He started high school at Pratt Lake in 1937. He wanted to play football but could not due to his chores at home. (18:50) After walking to school all first semester he purchased a 1928 Model A Ford for 50 dollars total. (20:00) His father then got a job at a canning factory. To get there, he used Glenn’s car. (20:27) He recalls the seizing of other countries by Germany during the late 1930s and early 1940s. (21:56) While in the 10th grade (approx. 1938/1939) he was kicked out of his home because his father couldn’t afford to have him live there. He applied for jobs in factories but he was not hired due to him being too close to the draft age. (23:03) He did find a job as a farm hand. (24:10) He met his wife originally in his one room school house. In 1938 he re-met her. (24:40) He was drafted into the U.S. Army on November 24th 1941.(26:40) After he was drafted he tried to enlist in the Navy but they would not take him due to his mother's tuberculosis. (27:02) He was drafted in the 2nd wave of draftees from Grand Rapids, Michigan. (27:40) �Basic training (27:44)                           He was then sent to Fort Custer in Battle Creek, Michigan. (27:49) The first thing they had him do once he arrived was peeling potatoes at 4:00 in the morning. (28:00) He was then sent to Fort Knox, Kentucky. This was the furthest he has ever been from home at the time. (28:50) He was in Fort Knox, Kentucky for basic training. Basic training lasted approx. 9 weeks. (29:19) Basic consisted of a lot of marching and learning of military discipline. (29:30) When finished with basic, he was going to be chosen to stay at Fort Knox and be a corporal and assist in training, but he was replaced and then sent to Fort Benning, Georgia. (30:00) He recalls that while in Kentucky during the winter of 1942 it rained often. (30:30) When he arrived at Fort Benning, Georgia he had not had any furloughs. He was given a 10 day leave in April of 1942. During his leave he traveled by train Back to Michigan. (31:48) He had to take a train to Atlanta then to Chicago then to Grand Rapids, Michigan. (32:10) While on his furlough he married his wife. They were planning on getting married in August but instead got married to his wife Florence on April 10th 1942. (34:48) He returned back to Fort Benning and became a supply truck driver. (36:05) The men were given the opportunity to drive the tank. The tanks the men used were shift tanks, with airplane engines in their back end. (36:59) He was then sent to Fort Bragg, North Carolina. (approx. June of 1942) (38:25) His truck was so heavy with all the men’s supplies when driving to Fort Bragg that he fell behind other men who traveled by truck. (38:50) He was instructed on the drive to Fort Bragg to stay over on the right side of the road. The ground was soft due to rain. As a result the truck flipped and a man in the back of his truck had his ear cut off. (39:30) A wrecker from the division was sued to tip the truck back over. (40:15) At Fort Bragg the tanks learned maneuvers. The men were given new tanks [M-5 Stuarts] with Cadillac engines in them (41:13) The cannon on the tank was small at 37 mm. (41:58) The company was then told they would be shipped to Africa. (42:30) The men were given landing practice with the tanks while stationed in Virginia. (43:14) While in Virginia he was given a 10 day furlough. (45:20) He was then sent to New Jersey where he would assist in the training of men for tank landings. At this time he was a corporal. (46:06) Before being shipped out he drove a supply truck to New York to ship over to Africa. (48:33) He shipped out on a flat-bottomed ship formerly used to ship railroad cars. (49:57) While being sent over to Africa, men had particular jobs aboard the ship such as a guard and lookout. (50:37) 2 days before arriving in Casablanca in Africa he spotted a torpedo and warned of its approach. The ship successfully evaded it. (50:50) Arrival in Casablanca (52:00) �     He arrived in Casablanca on December 24th, 1942. His job once the ship landed was to unload supplies. On Christmas he ate with the Navy. It was the only Christmas while in the service where he didn’t have some sort of assignment. (52:42) There were some French in Casablanca at the time when he arrived. (53:53) From Casablanca he was supposed to be moved with his company to Sicily Italy to aid in the invasion of Sicily. However he fell ill and was hospitalized for 5 days, missing the invasion. (55:11) After his hospitalization he was sent to Oran in Western North Africa and shipped out by boat to Wales. England. (57:00) Arrival in England (57:00)      He was then sent by train from Wales to Oxford, England In December of 1943, where he stayed in a Barracks. (57:35) When being sent from Oran to Wales, the men were given ice cream by the Red Cross. (58:39) The trek in the Atlantic was choppy and many of the men got sick. (59:30) There were so many troops on the ship he sailed on to Wales that some men were assigned to sleep nights and the others assigned to sleep days due to lack of beds. (1:01:05) While in England, they did go in to London on one occasion and see sights and visit pubs. (1:04:43) Invasion of Normandy (1:05:00)        His company went into Normandy on June 16th 1944 (10 days after the invasion on June 6th.) (1:06:20) At this time he was still a Liaison Corporal (a Jeep driver.) (1:06:35) While landing on the beach, a ship next to him was hit by a mine and the ship was destroyed. (1:07:00) He unloaded on a shallow part of the beach. When he drove the jeep into the water it was shallow enough that his feet didn’t get wet. (1:07:50) The beach was covered with destroyed equipment and the terrain looked to have been worn horribly. (1:09:00) At the time of his arrival, only 10 square miles had been secured by Allied forces [actually more than that, even at Omaha, but the beachhead was still much smaller than planned]. (1:09:50) His captain than instructed that he wanted to go to the front, so Glenn took him in his jeep. He recalls while he was driving this there were times he was told to drive fast and not slow down due to the spotting of snipers who fired upon the jeep. (1:10:03) Service in Northern Europe (1:11:00)   After arriving, his company was supposed to invade a town. The day before the company next to him was hit by a German bomb. (1:11:56) The men took the town with some combat and moved on. Shortly after he was given a leave of absence and moved on to Paris. (1:13:23) �          His company moved through the intersection of Belgium, France and Germany. (1:14:58) He and his commander had coffee at a Frenchman’s house. Shortly after leaving the house was struck with an explosive round. (1:15:45) While moving across the European countryside, the company went under fire by another American company on their right who mistook them for the enemy. (1:18:00) He served in B Company, 1st Battalion, 7th Armored Regiment, 2nd Armored Division (all light tanks) (1:18:50) When the military began a spearhead maneuver his company was on the outside of the spear head providing cover. (1:20:09) Shortly after the men moved back and took a house to make into the head quarters in December of 1944. (1:20:40) The men had Christmas dinner on December 31st 1944.(1:22:48) Air support was sometimes given. The men would have assistance form P38s and P47s. the P38s often were subjected to friendly fire. (1:28:58) The men would often start being shelled by artillery without warning as they advanced. He was nearly struck by a shell but never was seriously injured. (1:23:40) Some men became shell shocked as a result of this fire. (1:24:41) The surrender of the 41st infantry (1:25:40)   The [someone from the] 41st Infantry [German infantry division] called his division and said that they knew of the Allied approach and were going to surrender. (1:25:50) The Germans came in a covered truck. When the curtain was lifted the germens opened machine gun fire on the American company. Latter, Glenn’s company arrived and one surviving American from the massacre told of what happened. (1:26:05) Service in Northern Europe (cont.) (1:26:15)       The cold weather led to many problems with engines including difficulty starting or tanks trucks and jeeps. (1:26:38) When entering the boarder of Germany many German forces had retreated. The advanced was more of a cleanup rather than invasion. (1:29:34) Near the end of the war Glenn had the job of taking men who had enough points for leave to locations where they could get picked up. After words, it was up to him and his radioman to reconnect with the company. (1:29:20) While in no-man’s-land with several other officers, he was passed a bottle of alcohol that the other officers were drinking. However because he was caught with the bottle, his stripes were cut off and he was bumped from a corporal to a private. Now he operated the radio and the former radio operator was the driver. (1:30:00) He was later told that because the officer who bumped him down didn’t know who he was to just sew his strips back on. Several days later he was a corporal once more. (1:31:15) He crossed the Rhine River, however was unable to see it due to “asphalt Blindness.” This refers to the impaired vision men had when following a tank on asphalt and having the tank rip up the ground and throw it in the air. (1:31:31)] �        He had to visit the medic to have his eyes washed out. (1:32:40) He became the assistant driver of a staff tank due to his inability to see. His vision later returned at 4AM the next day. (1:33:20) He got pneumonia and stayed in the hospital for a few weeks. When he was relived he caught a supply truck back to his unit. (1:34:18) When he rejoined his unit, the commander of a tank got sent home after getting enough points. She he was then made a tank commander. (1:35:00) At this time his company was in German heading to Berlin. When they arrived there the Russians turned them away. (1:35:42) It took 3 attempts to enter the city before the Russians allowed Americans access. (1:35:18) The company seized a large building for the men to stay in. while exploring the basement of that building they found that it was full of dead bodies. (1:36:38) He was then given a 3 days leave of absence in the U.S. But after turning in their tanks at the France German Border in August of 1945, he heard that Japan had surrendered. (1:38:02) Post surrender service (1:38:50)          He then took a train from Germany through France. (1:38:50) He was told that his company was to replace the occupation forces on the French Riviera. (1:40:21) He got on a ship headed to Boston. He gambled to pass tome o the ship. (1:42:00) While crossing the Atlantic they hit a Hurricane near the Canary Islands. (approx. September 1945). (1:40:30) The top deck of the ship had women on it but he and the other male soldiers were not allowed to visit it. (1:43:00) He landed in Boston in October of 1945 and was sent to Camp Grant, Illinois. (1:43:15) He was discharged at Camp Grant, Illinois and then was sent by train to Chicago. (1:44:14) The train tickets and taxis between two different train stations were paid for by the military. (1:44:38) He took a train back to Grand Rapids, Michigan. (1:45:10) Life after Service (1:46:17)         His wife stayed with her mother on Ramsdale Avenue in Grand Rapids Michigan.(1:46:20) His first job was painting a house for pay. (1:47:10) He then was hired on a dock. While there he saved the foreman after having a heart attack. (1:47:49) In April of 1946 he bought a 120 acre farm. (1:48:55) On January 3rd of 1950 he had his first daughter. (1:49:26) In 1952 he sold his 120 acre farm. (1:49:48) He then went to live with his wife’s sister and brother-in-law where he worked the farm for a short time before going to live with his brother. (1:50:00) He then bought a house on 6 Mile Road with some farm land. (1:50:35) �              He then received a job in the yard in a plaster mine in Grandville, Michigan. (1:51:20) He then received a job as an electrician for the Grandville mine. (1:52:70) He worked her for 2 years and never received one raise. (1:53:19) He was then made the high loader on the dock. (1:54:09) He had one child in 1952 and another in 1956. (1:54:19) He worked in a factory making stoves and then later refrigerators. (1:55:00) During the summer, the factory laid men off to go work on the farm. During this time he received a job for a farm hand. (1:58:05) He then started work for Pioneer Construction Company. (2:00:05) Soon after being employed at Pioneer construction he was made a truck driver. (2:03:56) He retired in April of 1984 after working at 2 construction companies. (2:06:04) He built his house in 1954. (2:08:15) On April 7th 1985 he had a heart attack. (2:08:44) He recovered from his heart attack by walking frequently. (2:09:48) He has been married to his wife for 64 years. (2:12:18) Final thoughts on service (2:13:00)   He doesn’t think he would have enlisted if he wasn’t drafted. But he thinks the experience was rewarding and he was thankful he wasn’t hurt. (2:13:19) He belongs to the VFW and the American Legion. He served as a chaplain for one of these organizations. (2:14:30) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LyonsG1311V Title A name given to the resource Lyons, Glenn (Interview outline and video), 2005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lyons, Glenn Description An account of the resource Glenn Lyons was born April 4th 1920 in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and drafted into the Army in November, 1941. After a year of training, he was shipped to North Africa, with the 2nd Armored Division. He spent most of his military service as a jeep driver in a light tank company in that unit. He missed the invasion of Sicily due to illness, but was with his unit from Normandy until the end of the war. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Blough, Ivan (Interviewer), Blough, Nick (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2005-12-15 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/aa16a57eb8efea7f583d57abeb49ca37.mp4 0f72e96739c0330afe6a1ba3319891ad https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c79b4775892d02dce324eeb2993c0b18.pdf e8ee4bf598dd122eb31dd3927c54ba5b PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of War: Other veterans & civilians Name of Interviewee: Ron Lyon Length of interview (01:02:26) (0:00:10) Background Born in Flint, MI on November 14, 1941, three weeks before Pearl Harbor. (0:00:26) Grew up about 20 miles northeast of Flint. (0:05:07) Father served in the Philippines in the infantry during World War II. Was colorblind and therefore able to see through camouflage. (0:01:00) Father worked as the head of the catalogue department for Buick. (0:06:27) Was the oldest child. Had one sister and a brother. (0:07:07) Suffered from hay fever, asthma, and several allergies throughout grade school. Despite this, he played sports until 10th grade, but had to quit when his symptoms inhibited his breathing. (0:02:56) Attended Lakeville High School. Describes the consolidated school system. (0:07:35) When his health kept him out of sports, he dedicated his time elsewhere. He played first chair trumpet in the band, participated in all high school plays, was the head of the Drama Club, and participated in Debate Club. (0:08:53) Attended community college for a few years studying pre-med. Wasn’t getting much out of it and decided to join the service to learn discipline. (0:09:51) Looking back, wishes that he had gone on to become a veterinarian. (0:11:15) Joined the service in September, 1962. (0:02:49) (0:11:52) Service in New York City Signed up for a missile defense site for New York City. Compared to his small town, New York City fascinated him. (0:11:52) Asked him to go into the army as an officer, but he declined. (0:12:55) FBI had to perform a background check on him before giving him top secret clearance. (0:20:52) Had a top secret clearance and therefore took care of all nuclear warheads and tools for his company. (0:13:39) Training for this included special advanced classes. (0:13:55) Was at the base during the Cuban Blockade. (0:14:05) Was the only one on base with top secret clearance on base during the John F. Kennedy assassination because the base was undergoing maintenance and everyone else had gone to New York City for the weekend. (0:14:21) Describes being instructed by a general from the SAC Air Command to arm all missiles with nuclear warheads and put up as many as possible, to put the guard dogs patrolling the perimeter on attack mode, and to shoot anyone at the gate that he didn’t recognize. (0:15:51) Didn’t know what was going on until the news of the assassination came on the radio later. (0:19:07) Recalls that the experience was very scary because he was a [Spec-4] at the time and had �never dealt with an emergency without supervision. (0:20:06) Explains the constant fear during the Cold War. (0:21:40) After the missiles were armed, helped manage and fire the missiles (0:22:58) Says that if he had been ordered to fire a missile or shoot someone if it were absolutely necessary, he wouldn’t have hesitated whatsoever. (0:23:20) The first sargeant and the lieutenant and had returned by the time that Kennedy was taken to the hospital and pronounced dead. Was relieved once the higher officers had returned. (0:25:03) Was stationed at this base for 14 months. (0:25:49) Was able to see several Broadway shows because he was stationed in New York City on the weekends. Received the tickets for free from the USO. (0:25:58) Recalls that being in New York City was an adventure. (0:29:49) The base closed down and was turned over to the National Guard. (0:30:38) Describes the switch from small nuclear warheads to high TNT missiles before he left. (0:30:50) Worked with the state police and was in charge of the Nuclear Biological Chemical Warfare team. (0:31:46) (0:32:15) Service in Germany Worked in the 9th Chemical Company outside of [Mannheim], Germany, which suppored all of the 7th Army. Provided gas masks, flame throwers, and decontamination trucks. (0:32:15) Represented his base as the Chemical Corps during the [War Games with other countries] because he was the only one with top secret clearance. Was the lowest ranking person in attendance. (0:32:57) Was in Germany for 14 months. (0:36:05) Was surprised that he was sent there because he hadn’t had 18 months of experience, which was the requirement. Was thankful because he was able to see various parts of Germany, Switzerland, France, northern Italy. (0:36:30) Was frequently left in charge while his first sergeant was out trying to sell things that were new to biological and chemical warfare to the countries of NATO. Every time he was left in charge, his first sergeant would award him three or four days of vacation. (0:37:36) Attended a 30 day program at the NCO Academy which included map reading, instructional training, and leadership. Only had about two hours of sleep every night while there. Describes his daily routine. (0:39:39) The top four received a promotion, but was 5th in his class. (0:41:52) Describes skiing in the Alps. Had broken his ankle 6 weeks before while playing in a basketball tournament on post. (0:47:35) (0:51:13) Life after Service Arrived in New Jersey at an Air Force base near Fort Dix and was discharged. (0:51:42) Returned to the Flint area and worked as a salesman for 7 or 8 months. (0:51:18) Was married three times after the war. (0:52:19) Applied for Skilled Trades at the Chevrolet Metal Factory and worked there for 36 years. (0:52:37) �Returned to college at the University of Michigan in Flint while working and got a degree in Urban Studies. (0:55:07) Has had several strokes and the cognitive portion of his brain does not deal well with stress. (0:57:42) Says that the service gave him a lot of discipline and gave him a deep understanding of army regulations. (1:00:07) Received several Solder of the Quarter and Soldier of the Month awards. (1:01:23) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LyonR Title A name given to the resource Lyon, Ron (Interview outline and video), 2008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lyon, Ron Description An account of the resource Ron Lyon was born in Flint, MI on November 14, 1941. After a few years at community college, he realized that he wasn't getting anything out of college and decided to join the service. In September of 1962, he signed up for a missile defense site for New York City. After being investigated by the FBI and taking several advanced classes, Ron received top secret clearance and took care of all nuclear warheads and tools for his company. He served for 14 months in New York City and 18 months in Germany. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Collins Sr., Charles E. (Interviewer) Collins, Carol (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Other veterans & civilians--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2008-08-11 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8fa4452548bbcc332216ea398af2a34b.mp4 df5a0c88582e08cae64e8b371412a5ea https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e27b95708164ee664ede2ff6d9ac5a31.pdf c67e8c8e99c00f937819dc8ad82c222e PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Elbert Lyles (36:30) Back ground information (00:09)             Born May 10th, 1920 in Mississippi. He grew up in the area. (00:10) His mother worked as a maid and housekeeper. (00:30) He was an only child. (00:53) He completed school through the 10th grade.(approx 1936) (1:03) He went to segregated schools. (1:15) In 1936 he got a job working on an ice truck delivering blocks of ice. The blocks of ice weighted about 300 pounds but they were cut into 60 5-pound blocks. (2:30) He did this work until he began working in a cotton seed plant. (3:15) In the late 30s before Pearl Harbor he had no idea of what was going on in Europe. (4:05) He recalls hearing about Pearl Harbor on the radio in 1941. (4:27) He didn’t have a drive to join the military after Pearl Harbor, however, his friends did. Soon after they left, Elbert decided that he might as well join too in 1942. (4:55) After enlisting he was sent to Fort Knox, Kentucky in 1942. (5:55) Basic training (6:00)               He arrived at Fort Knox via bus. (6:08) When arriving, he was assigned clothes as well as a barracks. (approx. 30 per barracks.) (6:33) He was trained separately from the white soldiers. (7:09) There were several black officers training him including a black Lieutenant. (7:17) The training consisted of exercise, weapons training, and military discipline. (7:46) He thought it was easy to adjust to military discipline. (8:30) He believed that he was treated fairly and that the white officers treated him fairly as well. (9:11) He received no special training after completing basic. (9:40) He was sent to the port he would ship out of from via train. (10:07) He sailed to Africa in a large navy ship. He recalls that the boat trip made the men sick. (10:50) They were approx. 200-300 men on the ship and they were free to move around. (11:17) He sailed in a convoy that traveled in a zigzag pattern. (11:40) There was a U-boat sighted when traveling to Europe but it was eventually chassed off. (12:10) He arrived in Oran, Algeria. (12:52) Service in Africa (12:55)(1942-1943) �          The men were loaded up on truck after arriving and driven to camps. (13:04) Here he served as a cook for an engineer battalion. (13:10) He was given a little bit of training for being a cook after he was assigned this title. (13:34) He cooked for the entire unit. (14:07) The cooks slept with the other men. (14:29) For sleep the men mostly slept in houses aside from tents (14:42) The soldiers he was with were constructing facilities and roads to set up a camp. (15:05) He saw a lot of native Arabs. It was very easy for him and other men to associate with them and trade. (15:45) The men were not allowed into town or villages unless given a pass. (16:50) He moved place to place within North Africa. He stayed in North Africa for a relatively short amount of time. Approx. 6 months. (17:06) Service in Italy (17:50)(1943-1944)                    After serving 6 months in North Africa he was sent to Sicily and Italy. (17:55) The men arrived in Italy from North Africa through Naples. (18:10) The battalion served delivering things to front as well as making repairs to roads and facilities. (18:38) While most men were about the same age as Elbert, there were a few that were 5-10 years older than him. These were mostly enlisted men. (19:02) The men cooked day on day off. If it was his day on he had to wake up earlier than the other soldiers. (19:20) At times the men had fresh food. However most of it was canned. (19:55) When he had a day on cooking, he was required to work essentially all day. (20:46) When given a day off, he spent his time around camp, using a pass to town, or sleeping. (21:07) When the men went to town they typically drank. He didn’t notice the Italians treating the Americans poorly. (21:19) Segregation was a new idea to the Italians. The White soldiers would tell the Italian civilians that the black soldiers were monkeys with long tails. (21:58) Some Italians could speak English. When they talked to soldiers they just wanted to know what was going on and why they were there. (22:37) While in Italy the men were sent up to the front briefly but then taken back to their position. (23:32) The Germans would occasionally bomb the places where he and his battalion were building. His Battalion did take casualties. (24:09) They were never close enough to come under fire by artillery. (25:25) While in Italy he was there for 3 years and 2 months. (26:16) He was given the chance to visit Rome. Here he was sent in a group by truck. (27:03) They stayed in Rome over night and they were given a place to stay. (27:59) 2 men in his battalion from Chicago got into a fight and one ended up killing the other. (29:37) He and his mother wrote to each other often. (30:09) �The German surrender. (30:57)     His camp was very excited about the surrender, hoping they would go home. (31:01) Because the weather on the way back was nicer, he did not get seasick. (31:45) He believes he arrived in Boston. (32:35) After arriving in the U.S. he was sent to a camp before he was discharged. (probably Fort Knox.)(32:50) Life after service (33:25)        After returning back he returned to the cotton seed plant where he worked before he enlisted because they had to guarantee him his job back when he returned. (33:30) He then received a job working in a hotel in Grand Rapids, Michigan. (33:48) This job was arranged by his uncle who already resided in Michigan. (34:01) After working at the hotel he began working at a furniture factory in Grand Rapids. (34:34) He got married after service and has 1 daughter. (35:00) He doesn’t believe he gained very much experience form his military service. He does not know if it was worth doing. (35:34) He disliked being away from his family and friends. (36:12) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LylesE1184V Title A name given to the resource Lyles, Elbert (Interview outline and video), 2011 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lyles, Elbert Description An account of the resource Elbert Lyles was born in Mississippi in 1920. After leaving school in 1936, he worked as an iceman and in a cottonseed plant. He enlisted in the Army in 1942 and served in both North Africa and Italy in an all black engineer battalion. During his time in service, he served as a cook for his battalion who had the task of delivering supplies to the front and setting up more permanent camps. In this interview, Elbert gives an overview of what his cook duties entailed and how being an African American affected his military service. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American United States. Army Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2011-08-31 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/6abc21f0646e0fef5a8994bd2b4dbd18.mp4 5ca809f491c476b57fd3bfa77833a6c4 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/8a90d4896d6972f4c6aefb95e44edf8d.pdf 6164bdc45b8894c47f7676a353fb53c7 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Vietnam Wayne Luznicky Total Time – (01:17:00) Background     He was born in Chicago, Illinois in 1947 (00:15) His father was a machinist and his mother was a clerk in a local food store He has an older and younger sister (00:29) He attended Mark Twain Elementary School and Kelly High School (00:45) o He left high school in 1964 and joined the Marines  He wanted to join the Marines because they were the best (01:11)  Joining the Marines was a way for him to escape issues in his neighborhood and at home (01:17) Enlistment/ Basic Training – (01:22)    He joined the Marines in October of 1964 Basic Training was in San Diego, California o He went to the recruiting station in Chicago on the day he was supposed to report and spent the whole day sitting around (01:46) o He was put on a bus and taken to O’Hare International Airport and took his first airplane ride of his life (02:08) o When he exited in San Diego there was a Drill Sergeant in the terminal, waiting for all of the recruits o The recruits were told to “shut up, spit out the gum, put out the cigarettes, and get in that vehicle over there” (02:32) o They took a small truck to the base  There were 10 men in his group When they arrived, the recruits were told to quickly move and get to a certain location (03:26) o They stood at attention for roughly one hour before they were allowed to go inside (03:50) o Once they went inside there was a lot of screaming and yelling by other Marines o They had to take all of their civilian attire and “contraband” and send it home (04:09) �             o They had two minutes to shower and shave (04:15)  They received their “bucket issue”  The bucket was used throughout all of training (04:45) The soldiers then received their first pair of trousers, socks, belt, covers, and a yellow sweatshirt o The yellow let everyone know that you were new (05:17) The soldiers were assigned to many busy tasks – cleaning floors, swabbing them, running a floor buffer, etc. They continued Police Call work (06:31) He was then assigned to his platoon – he was assigned to Platoon 3001 Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 2nd Recruiting Regiment (06:47) o They were taught how to make their racks, square away their foot lockers, and were able to shower When soldiers first started marching, they had to link arms with the Private on both sides (07:41) o There was tape on the pavement that was set up at a thirty inch pace (08:06) They learned Marine Corps. history o They spent roughly 1/3 of their time on Marine Corps. history (08:44)  They learned the nomenclature and operation of the M14, first aid, hygiene, different aspects of living in the field, and some other things The physical training included pushups, sit-ups, and squat thrusts every morning (09:58) o They would have to run, there was an obstacle course, confidence course, bayonet training, and hand-to-hand combat training o He was average when it came to the physical aspects of training (10:33)  It was not difficult – the biggest problem he had was the rope climb  The Drill Instructor gave him some personal help (10:57) There were some Marines that were overwhelmed by the training (11:16) o They were put into a special squad – they remained with the platoon but were put into a squad that had more time spent on physical conditioning Every Marine graduated that he was there with (11:58) Around the third week of Basic Training, he took his aptitude test (12:26) The rifle range was three weeks long (12:46) o The first week was familiarizing oneself with firing the rifle o The second week was learning the different positions one could fire from o The third week was snapping in (13:10)  Snapping in is squeezing the trigger but not firing real ammo He had been in training for three weeks before the rifle training The last week of rifle training was qualification (14:11) o They were supposed to qualify in the morning but there was a heavy fog – they had a stand down and had to go through the qualification process later in the day o It was Christmas Eve of 1964 �         o They were allowed to have packages sent to them (14:49) Because they did well in their qualification, the Drill Instructors allowed the packages to be opened and everyone could partake in the goodies (15:25) o Some held back from eating the goodies – there was always payback o One Private received a box of cigars (15:56)  The Drill Instructors made the non-smokers smoke the cigars The soldiers had a nice cooked meal on Christmas (17:09) o He did not want to partake again because he knew there would be payback once again o The following day, the Marines had to go four miles down the beach doing Double Time (17:50)  They had to go from Camp Pendleton to Camp Del Mar There were seventy men in his training platoon (18:17) When they returned to San Diego, California from rifle training, the Marines had four more weeks of Basic Training (18:27) o Basic Training totaled fourteen weeks The first week back in San Diego was spent on Mess Duty After that, there was more classroom work (18:54) They were fitted for their uniforms as well At this point, the Drill Instructors were not as harsh as they had previously been There were two different physicals that they had to go through (19:36) o The first was the standard pushups and other activities (19:41) o The other was physical readiness testing  He had to wear full field gear and do certain drills  All of the events were timed and had to be done properly (20:40)  His platoon did extremely well ITR Training – (21:20)       After Basic Training, he had ITR (Infantry Training Regiment) (21:27) ITR was at Camp Pendleton in San Onofre, California (21:32) ITR training consisted of learning how to fire automatic weapons, having demonstrations of the rocket launchers, the 60mm mortar, the M79 grenade launcher, they threw hand grenades, learned about white phosphorous, smoke grenades, they learned infantry tactics, etc. o The M1 was used in the ITR (23:00) o They all fired the BAR and the 50 Caliber They learned how to ride in helicopters and deploy once they hit the ground (23:28) They participated in a war game (23:40) o Operation Silver Lance  He was a part of the aggressor force The ITR was a six week program (24:00) �            He, along with some other men, were told that they were going to report to Naval Air Station in Memphis, Tennessee for Aviation Training He was able to go home for a 20 day leave before reporting to Memphis (24:45) At this point he was very aware of what was going on in Vietnam o He was aware of Vietnam before he enlisted (25:20) The first Marines landed in Da Nang, Vietnam when he was wrapping up his ITR When he arrived in Memphis, he went to the receiving barracks (26:31) o He spent a week there until he was put through a series of tests where he was asked different questions o They were able to express any preference for a job (26:58)  Some of the jobs were aircraft mechanics, hydraulic mechanics, sheet metal men, etc. o He qualified for anything he wanted (27:49)  He ended up choosing to be a mechanic (27:58)  He wanted the chance to work with helicopters The training to be a mechanic was roughly three months long He was trained how to use a file, a drill, what the different manuals were, how to be an aircrewman, and went through simulated jumps o They were taught the different principles that aircraft operate on (26:33) After the training he was certified as a general mechanic He never trained on a specific type of aircraft (27:59) He graduated in early August of 1965 He was assigned to the Marine Corps Air Station at Cherry Point, North Carolina (30:25) o He was assigned to the VMFA (Marine Fighter Attack Squadron) 323  They were shipping out but it was decided that he would stay behind (30:48) o He then worked with the VMFA 513 (30:58) He did regular maintenance and mechanic work at Cherry Point on the Phantom F4B (31:30) Specialized Vietnam Training – (31:40)    In January of 1966, word came that the military was looking for volunteers to go to Vietnam (31:53) o He jumped on it and volunteered  It was where the action was and he wanted to see how he would react to a combat zone (32:10) He heard talk of Da Nang Air Base and the night that it was hit o The weapons were locked up in the armory when they were hit (33:07) He then went home on a short leave before reporting back at Camp Pendleton (34:11) �    o He went through another month of infantry training that was tailored for Vietnam o They watched movies of the atrocities that the Viet Cong committed (34:44) o They went through field problems  One field problem was “Nightmare Alley” and it had all of the booby traps that one could encounter in Vietnam  There was a simulated POW (Prisoner Of War) (35:25)  It was a SERE course (Survival, Escape, Resistance and Evasion) (35:37)  The simulated POW camp lasted three days (36:20) When they were in the POW training camp, they had to find a way to get out o The “enemy” had taken most of his equipment except for his can opener and PFC Chevron (38:09) o He and another Marine started scraping at a piece of wood that became weak enough that they could set it on fire o They were eventually cut loose (39:03) While he was training for Vietnam, he never had any second thoughts about what he was doing The worst part was simulating an abandoned ship – they had to swim the length of a swimming pool (39:32) o By the time they were given there equipment, it was all waterlogged from previous training They then boarded an aircraft that stopped in Hawaii to refuel and eventually landed in Okinawa (40:10) Active Duty – First Tour – (40:37)       The Marines were processed in Okinawa o They spent three days there drinking beer and waiting to be shipped out o At this point they did not know where they were going to be shipped out to (41:07)  He just knew he was going as a replacement When they left Okinawa, he looked out of his porthole and the engine was on fire (41:51) They switched aircrafts and then flew to Da Nang, Vietnam (42:01) o They landed around noon His first impression of Vietnam was that it was hot (42:20) o He also noticed that Da Nang Air Base was very busy They had noon chow before he processed and on his way to Chu Lai, Vietnam (42:44) o Chu Lai was thirty miles south of Da Nang He had heard that Chu Lai was contested and not a secure area (43:08) o The “bad guys” were taking pot shots and occasionally attacking the airfield �                 o When he got off the plane in Chu Lai he saw smoke rising everywhere – it turned out that they were burning their sewage (43:35) He was then assigned to VMA (Marine Attack Squadron) 214 (43:54) o He was a mechanic on the E4 Skyhawk Every day he would report and would work standard maintenance jobs (44:47) The mechanics would also have to man the perimeter at some points as well (45:11) o It was typically every fourth night o He was using an M14 and sometimes the M60 (45:25) There were a couple of nights where they took fire on watch (46:36) o They were mortared a couple of times o The attacks were more harassment than anything else (47:02) There were four Fixed Wing Squadrons and some helicopter units in Chu Lai He remained in Chu Lai for his entire first tour (48:36) He would sometimes have to fix battle damage done on aircraft The morale of the unit when he was there was very high His unit had Caucasian, black, Chicano, and oriental individuals (49:43) There was a small PX, a club where soldiers could get beer, and a show where movies were played o The only time he went was when the TV show “Combat” was playing (50:22)  They were mortared in Chu Lai as the TV show played Germans sending mortars against the Americans He worked seven days a week (51:18) He received his first R&R at Christmas of 1966 and he spent it in Singapore (52:07) o Singapore was fantastic for him o It was one of the cleanest cities in the East (52:13) o He did not have a choice of anywhere else to go o His R&R was five days long o It was not difficult for him to return to Vietnam (52:36) He was in Vietnam for nine months before he received his first R&R When he returned to Vietnam there was no change in his attitude (53:22) o There was high morale and they were proud of what they were doing (53:30) He finished out his tour in Chu Lai – he had enlisted into the Marines for four years In the process of returning home he processed out of Da Nang and the following morning he flew to Okinawa o He spent five days in Okinawa (54:09) o He had to get his uniform ready to wear home o He had lost a few pounds while in Vietnam (54:30) He then flew from Okinawa on a civilian flight that went directly to Treasure Island near San Francisco, California (55:12) �    o After he processed through there he got on a plane to go home for thirty days (55:29) o He went home in May of 1967 When he was returning home the soldiers were told of anti-war protestors (55:46) o They were told not to confront them o They were told not to wear their uniform when they were home (55:57) He was then assigned to back to Cherry Point, North Carolina o He was assigned to the MAG 24, VMFA 531 – they flew the Phantoms At Cherry Point, there were some other Vietnam veterans there (56:33) o When he joined the Marines, there was still a high morale o There were some that asked him of his opinions on the war (56:58) o Some were nervous to go and others were eager to go (57:11) He was at Cherry Point from late June of 1967 – late January of 1968 (57:32) Active Duty – Second Tour – (57:37)           He then volunteered to go on a second tour of Vietnam o Stateside duty was a pain to him (57:44)  The inspections bothered him  He was used to just doing his job It was not difficult for him to get reassigned (58:32) o One NCO told him that he could go to Vietnam if he signed the waivers (58:45) o At this point he was a Sergeant – E5 ranking After he signed the waiver he went home for a few days before reporting to Camp Pendleton (59:14) His mother had anxieties about him going back His friends at the time did not understand what he was doing When he was back at Fort Pendleton, he had to repeat some of the training that he had already done (59:57) o Some of the training had changed o There were a lot of night field problems (01:00:08) o He fired the M16 for the first time o The training curriculum was improved and had changed based on experiences (01:02:13) His first training was better than his second training (01:02:45) The morale of the guys going through in his second training was normal but not as high as the first time he went Some of the soldiers were draftees (01:03:14) o The draftees did not want to go He then flew in a civilian aircraft to Okinawa – they stopped in Alaska to refuel before going to Okinawa (01:03:58) o He spent a couple of days in Okinawa before traveling to Da Nang, Vietnam �         o He then went to Chu Lai, Vietnam where he was assigned to the VMFA 323 and worked on Phantoms (01:04:16) Chu Lai was much larger than the previous time he had been there o He got there in April of 1968 (01:04:46) As soon as they landed, blacks and whites were separated because they had learned that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. had been assassinated (01:05:03) o He does not believe that the majority of the black Marines enjoyed getting the news as separate from the white soldiers o He did not recognize any segregation between the Marines The morale changed at that point (01:05:56) o On the second trip, many of the men just wanted to get their tour over – on the first trip, many felt as though they were cavaliers (01:05:54) In Chu Lai he volunteered to do a thirty day stand on perimeter duty o He was with the Army on the perimeter (01:07:13)  It was some distance from the Air Base o The Americal Division that he worked with were very professional (01:08:01)  He believes that 7th Marine Regiment did a better job than the Americal Division On his second tour the enemy’s ordinance changed – they were shooting rockets instead of the occasional mortar rounds (01:08:42) o There was some counter-fire that occurred (01:09:10  There was one night where they hit the enlisted men’s club  The soldiers were sitting in an open area drinking beer when they saw an aircraft coming in to bomb – they saw a secondary explosion and celebrated His second tour finished in late October of 1968 (01:11:14) He spent just over six months on his second tour The process of coming home from his second tour was the same as the first time o The one difference was, when returning from Okinawa, he flew to Marine Corps Air Station El Toro near Irvine, California (01:11:48)  There were quite a few of the soldiers that were getting off there There was an attempt to get the men to reenlist (01:12:12) After the Service – (01:12:18)       The LAPD and Los Angeles Sheriffs Department were at El Toro, trying to recruit the soldiers (01:12:19) He spent a week in El Toro getting civilized (01:12:36) He then received his physical and processed out He received the same advice about anti-war protestors after his second tour (01:13:20) He had one encounter with war protestors in downtown Chicago, Illinois roughly one month after being home When he returned home, he spent two weeks relaxing (01:14:22) �      He then got a job with a finance company (01:14:34) He then decided to go and become a police officer and joined the Chicago Police Force o He worked there for five years (01:14:50) After he worked as a police offer, he worked at a factory as a supervisor (01:15:34) o He eventually began working as a machinist He went back to school and took some classes His family had vacationed in Hesperia, Michigan (01:16:21) o They had a small cottage there He was divorced and he met his wife in Hesperia – she was living in Grand Rapids, Michigan � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LuznickyW1462V Title A name given to the resource Luznicky, Wayne (Interview outline and video), 2012 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Luznicky, Wayne Description An account of the resource Wayne Luznicky was born in Chicago, Illinois in 1947. He joined the Marines in October of 1964 and took his Basic Training in San Diego and infantry training Camp Pendleton, California. He then went to Memphis, Tennessee, for aviation mechanic training, and was assigned to Cherry Point, North Carolina where he worked on Phantom F4B. In January of 1966, Wayne volunteered to go to Vietnam. He was stationed at the Air Base at Chu Lai. After his first tour of Vietnam, and spending some time at Cherry Point, North Carolina, he volunteered for a second tour, and was again at Chu Lai from April to October of 1968. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McGregor, Michael (Interviewer) Kentwood Historic Preservation Commission (Kentwood, Mich.) WKTV Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Marine Corps Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2012-11-01 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b74ec057d8d3a5e6495ba124071e4c92.mp4 eeca720846c64a09cf727ba2e342099d https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ec986f9ef610b89f2ac18f01dcd51a5f.pdf 37c919ffdb2674088a68b02167ca92d0 PDF Text Text GrandValleyStateUniversity Veterans History Project World War II Jay Lutke (1:05:04) Background Information (00:02)    Born in Michigan in May of 1918. (00:02) Jay was inducted into the Army on May 1st (1943) just before his 27th [25th?] birthday. (00:12) At the time of his draft, Jay was married and had 2 girls. (00:46) Basic Training (1:35)      He attended basic training at Fort KnoxKentucky. (1:39) Jay recalls having to carry 60 lb. packs up and down Misery Hill while at FortKnox. (2:05) Jay and one of his friends from training would often go to Tennessee during the weekends. This was without any passes. (2:50) Overall Jay enjoyed his time in basic. He was in good physical shape at the time. (4:08) Jay served in the 702nd Tank Battalion attached to the 8th Infantry Division in the 3rd Army. (5:00) Voyage overseas (5:20)    Jay shipped out of New York. (5:20) There some men who got sick on the way to Europe. Going back, however in November [1945?], there were high swells that caused sea sickness. (5:47) Jay arrived in SouthamptonEngland, in late summer of 1943. He soon moved to LiverpoolEngland [possibly the other way around?] (7:16) Service in ()           Though the men were taught all positions in a tank in training, Jay served specifically as a gunner. (8:01) Jay believed the differences between the German tanks and the American was like the differences between a rifle and a BB gun. (8:55) The Sherman tanks could outmaneuver the German tanks. (9:13) Jay was brought to his company by truck. On the day of his arrival [in France?] the First Sergeant had been killed. Jay was later assigned to do guard duty. (10:34) Jay was with his company for approx. 1 week before he was assigned a tank. (11:30) He spent much of his service in the countryside of France ultimately ending in Austria. (12:12) For combat, the armored units led the way to push back the enemy forces leaving only pockets of hostiles behind. Jay was assigned to clear out these pockets. (13:11) The unit did take many casualties. (13:45) While in Austria, Jay fraternized with a civilian and helped him get a meal. The man was struggling to get enough to eat. (14:45) While getting the man food, Jay’s company left without him. He got a ride with a jeep back to his company. (16:22) � Description of the inside of a Sherman Tank. (17:40) Action (18:38)          Jay once went on a night attack with no reconnaissance. The men traveled to a town they were to take. But as the tank traveled, it got stuck against a tree on a hill. (18:42) Jay had to disable all of the guns after the wreck. This means that the .30 and .50. caliber machine guns needed to be removed from the tank. (20:16) A flare was lit to signal the tank wreck. This in turn gave away the company’s position. The men were then fired upon. (20:40) After the men abandoned the tank, they needed to go back to it to recover several grease guns. (21:50) The men did encounter some German soldiers. They did not fire upon them as to not give away their position. (22:15) The men came to a clearing that they had to cross while taking fire. Jay ran across the field in a zigzag motion to avoid being hit. (23:25) On a different occasion, Jay’s unit pulled into a camp with barracks. The men were excited to get a good night’s sleep. Instead the men had to serve guard. (25:13) Jay had to clear pockets fairly regularly. This task was shared between another tank companies. (28:04) Jay did meet General George Patton while traveling through France. (30:34) Life During Service (32:06)               During winter, the tanks got very cold. The hatches were almost always left open. Men did sleep under the tank to keep warm. (32:11) When there were no company cooks around, the men survived on C rations. these rations could be best described as edible. (33:05) As the end of the war approached, Jay did encounter some civilian resistance. (34:30) Jay was wounded and was awarded the Purple Heart. (35:59) While in Austria, Jay stayed with the tank while his fellow soldiers looted a castle. While guarding the tank he spotted some deer and shot them. (36:30) Jay was offered a goose dinner by some civilians he had met while traveling. (38:20) Jay also tried fishing by dropping hand grenades in the deepest part of a creek. (36:00) Jay was nearly court martialed after he shot some deer with the .50 caliber machine gun. (37:00) While in town, Jay and several of his friends found a VW beetle. After riding it for a while, the men were ordered to evacuate the vehicle and leave it. (42:00) Jay’s officers were very highly respected. They acted less as officers and more alike the common soldiers. This made them more relatable and thus amiable to the common man. (44:54) The men were able to write to his family. (45:40) The stress, particularly with dealing with the cold, was hard to take for Jay. (36:37) The men were able to get a reasonable amount of sleep, despite having to serve 2 hours of guard duty every night. (48:00) Jay was able to make several close friendships while overseas. (50:43) End of War and Service (51:54)  Many of the cities that Jay passed through in Germany were completely destroyed. (52:40) �     For [after?] 6 months (from May 1945-November 1945) Jay lived in a Cigarette camp [camp near the coast used for processing returning soldiers]. (53:34) The men spent much of this time after the German surrender playing pickup ball games and watching movies. (53:41) The older generation of the German people was much more passive about the Americans moving in than the younger ones. (54:10) While voyaging home in November of 1945 the ship experienced 30 ft. swells. (56:17) Jay was sent to FortMeade [Dix?] New Jersey once arriving in the U.S. where he was discharged. He was given a ticked for a train back to Michigan. (57:42) Life after Service (59:00)     Jay’s father, who worked as a builder, was anxious to get Jay back to work. He then began a career in construction. (59:10) His time in the service gave him lots of perspective on the topic of war. (1:00:00) Jay is thankful for his service and was thankful that he remained safe. (1:02:16) All together Jays’ service was approx. 2 years (May of 1943-November of 1945). (1:03:11) � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LutkeJ1085V Title A name given to the resource Lutke, Jay (Interview outline and video), 2010 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lutke, Jay Description An account of the resource Jay Lutke, born in Michigan in May of 1918, served in the U.S. Army from approximately May 1943-Novmeber 1945 in Europe during World War II. After completing his basic training at Fort Knox Kentucky, Jay was assigned to the 702nd Tank Battalion attached to the 8th Infantry Division in the 3rd Army. Jay spent his service traveling through France and Austria clearing pockets of resistance, and remained in Austria and Germany for about six months after the German surrender. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bolthouse, Marv (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010-11-02 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1559f08573cc574159834a3b670bcd35.mp4 16a7e633638775607ed60c68f8237c49 https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/410a301021f6b15ed74dc68282ecc9ff.pdf d1f98afab233c4f55f6e4c75fb7c0027 PDF Text Text ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW DR. GARY LULENSKI Born: Resides: Interviewed by: Richard Massa, for the GVSU Veterans History Project, Transcribed by: Joan Raymer, January 3, 2014 I’m Dr. Gary Lulenski, Vietnam veteran. 1970-1971, I was stationed in Chu Lai, Vietnam as a medical company commander. Interviewer: Today is Thursday, November 19th 2009, and we are at Lake Michigan College in Benton Harbor, Michigan. The interviewee, as I mentioned, is Dr. Gary Lulenski, and the camera operator is Bill Langbehn, and the interviewer is Richard Massa. We are performing this interview as part of the Veterans History Project being conducted by Grand Valley State University in Allendale, Michigan. 1:02 Interviewer: Gary, what branch of the service? I was in the United States Infantry and I was what was referred to as an obligatory volunteer, because in medical school if I hadn’t been willing to sign up for some active duty time, then the directors of the programs for training, called residency, they would be disinclined to look favorably upon you, because then you might get drafted and taken right out of the middle of the year. You were one of few, and very much needed, so I signed up in 1966 to into the very program after part of my training was completed. Interviewer: Did you finish your medical training and then go into the service? No, I finished medical school, a year of internship and a year of surgical residency. 2:03 Those were granted without much problem. If you really wanted to spend another three or four years becoming a fully trained surgeon, like I am, then you would have to enter a 1 �sort of lottery system where about one out of twenty physicians, who attempted to get that deferment, only a few received it. Interviewer: Now, was part of your medical training, schooling, covered by the GI Bill after serving? That’s a good question. After I returned from active duty I had four more years of training. I didn’t know it when I went in, but I was eligible for some portion of my—my income came from the GI Bill for educational purposes, so for those four years I did receive some additional payments. Interviewer: You entered the military program and what, and where, was your military training? 3:05 At that time all the physicians, medical corps, the physicians were all in the medical corps, and then the medical service corps, who were, basically, the executive officers and the right hand people for the medical corps officers, and the veterinarians and the nurses, we all went to Fort Sam Houston, San Antonio, Texas, so I had a basic training course there for six weeks. Interviewer: After that did you go directly to Vietnam? I think I went home for a few days. That was a while ago, a few years ago, and I think I went home for a few days, but I went from Cleveland, Ohio to Tacoma Air Force Base and from Tacoma to—stopped in Anchorage, stopped in Guam, and then on to Bien Hoa airfield in Saigon. 4:01 Interviewer: Were you married or single at the time? I was married and I had one small boy, Jeffery, and they stayed in Cleveland. Interviewer: Do you remember arriving in the country? 2 �Yeah, I do remember arriving and getting g in country. Even though it was so long ago, of course we’ve had our course going on this and it helps to revive memories and I hope more good than bad. But, flying into Bien Hoa and sitting with some other physicians, and some enlisted men and officers, someone in the row next to me said, “Well, I hope this is better than the last time, because the last time that I came over here there were rockets coming into the airports and we had to get off the plane and go directly into bunkers”. I’m thinking, “Oh, this can’t be, I can’t be here and have to go down some chute and go into a bunker”. 5:02 We landed without a problem, but in 1968, during the Tet Offensive, and afterwards, the Bien Hoa airport took not only rocket attacks, but mortars and sappers. That guy was not making it up, he was telling the truth. Interviewer: What rank were you when you arrived? I was a Captain when I arrived, because during the Vietnam War you were given credit for time in service for your medical training. In my case that was four years of medical school, and two years of post-graduate school, so I was given the rank of Captain and I was considered to have six years in the service. My father was in the same position as medical corps company commander as I was, but then in the 2nd World War they didn’t give credit for your training. 6:00 Interviewer: What was your position? Were you a company medical corps commander, or a person who worked for someone else? No, I was a company commander. My MOS directed me to be in charge of a company of a hundred and forty men, as opposed to a general medical officer who would be assigned to a firebase. We had about thirty general medical officers and they were out in the middle of the jungle on a hill, so I was in a division area where we had a very secure 3 �perimeter. We were on the South China Sea and I was in charge of the company. How they expected me to know what to do with a hundred and forty people, some of them who were half crazy, and how they expected me to do that with six weeks of learning, I don’t know. Interviewer: You were not in any area where your medical facilities came under direct fire? 7:00 There were rocket attacks during the 1970-1971 period, but no significant mortar attacks, no significant attacks by units and we didn’t have any significant explosions caused by sappers. We had two fixed hospitals and I assisted surgery at each of those to some extent, and then I had a dispensary with two other physicians. I was in charge of daily care for soldiers in the Americal [23rd] Division. Then we had an inpatient facility for those wounded and were going to have what was called delayed primary closure. A soldier that was wounded with shrapnel did not go to the hospital and have those wounds closed up right away, unless they were life threatening. So, one of my responsibilities was to decide when, and how, to help those wounded. We also had an extensive inpatient rehabilitation unit with two fulltime, fully trained psychiatrists, and they lived right next to me. 8:00 So, we had all kinds of people, sentries, motor pool people, and they had the division surgeon and his staff just on the next little hill—we had all kinds of people. Interviewer: Could you describe a typical day and what a typical day would be like? Well, we had sick call every morning except Sunday, and one of the three doctors would be assigned to morning sick call. One of the doctors would be available the rest of the day for any type of urgent or emergency problems. One of the doctors would make 4 �rounds in the hospital, in our hospital, not the big hospital. In our units, where we had malaria victims too and, in fact, quite a few, so one physician would be in charge of those patients and if there was some decision about doing surgery, then if it wasn’t myself who had made the rounds and it was one of the other two general medical officers, they would ask me whether I concurred, or what we would do. 9:11 So, the afternoon, often times, was surgery and then there was a physician on call in the evening and we all strayed, basically, in the division rear. I had my own Jeep, but Chu Lai, even in 1970, was not a place you wanted to go, so I never did take my Jeep out of the division area. I could have, but I chose not to. Interviewer: Were there cases of more serious injuries that came to your facility? No, the more serious ones would go the 312th Evacuation Hospital, which was a big hospital. Every specialty of physician, or at least every specialty of surgical trained physician, was available at the 312th Evac Hospital. 10:02 Then the 27th surgical Hospital, those were the places where there were not only military casualties, but often times where civilian casualties would be taken. My role was to help take care of those that didn’t require immediate surgery, didn’t have any abdominal wounds, didn’t have any broken limbs, so mostly those were what we call soft tissue injuries, and many of those soldiers were able to return to duty and we didn’t have anybody that was really getting sick, or was having something bad happen. If that were to happen we were supposed to transfer that patient to one of the two bigger facilities. Interviewer: Did you ever have occasion to treat any of our service people who had been prisoners of war? 5 �No, I don’t think we had any prisoners of war. We certainly didn’t have any assigned to my company and I don’t think in the division rear. 11:07 There may have been some— the troops from out in the jungle, they would come to us if they were advised to by the general medical officer, or if they were close to our division area. Some of them may have been prisoners of war, but I don’t recall sitting down and talking with anybody that said, “This is my second tour of duty and the first time I had to spend some time with the Vietcong, because they captured me”. I don’t remember any conversation like that. Interviewer: Did the enemy avoid, or in any way attempt to target medical facilities? That’s a difficult question. I know that the answer in 1968 and 1969 was yes. I think by the time I was there, the attitude of the enemy was just sort of “hold in place”. 12:05 So, we had rockets come in and one of the rockets, actually, did hit the Air Force clinic, which was the same as mine. It wasn’t, though, intended specifically, that was just at the airfield and unfortunately that rocket hit the building and didn’t destroy any planes and didn’t impact the runway, but it sure did make a mess of the clinic. Interviewer: Did your facility treat enemy combatants? No, we did not---there were specific rules and regulations for treating any combatants and they had to be treated at a facility like the 312th where they had military police and security personnel. We didn’t have any military police; we had sentries, but not a unit. 13:05 During your time there, were you able to communicate regularly with your family at home? 6 �We had a pretty good system called the WATS system, and you’d have to walk over to this hill, which had all of its telecommunications towers on it, and then you would sort of take a number and sit in line, and most of the time, if you were patient, and, of course, I would do that on a day that I wasn’t assigned to sick call, or wasn’t assigned to morning call, and if you waited there, usually you could get through. When that rocket attack occurred, unfortunately, the way it was presented in the United States, including to my family, was that the army outpatient facility had been struck by a rocket and the physician and all ten other people in the facility were dead, so my family thought that was me. 14:04 I found out that’s the way it had been delivered, so that day I went to the WATS facility and tried to do whatever I could do to get ahead, beg and plead, so I could let my wife and father and mother know that I was not in the facility that had been struck by a rocket. Unfortunately, I had to go and pronounce all those people dead. That was one of the things I had to do and that was very unattractive to do that every third day, graves registration. Interviewer: Other than that, which was a memorable experience, do you have any other specific things that stand out? Well, by the time I was in Vietnam, we had terrible trouble with drug abuse. 15:04 That’s why our rehab facility was full, that’s why we had so many enlisted, and even some officers, being discharged on what was called a two twelve general discharge, and many of them had been involved with drug use and were considered unfit to remain on active duty, so I would have to go and do the physical exam that would precede their being dismissed. About everything happened, we had fraggings, we had some grenades thrown in the first sergeant's office, we had guys drive their trucks off the road, we had 7 �people shooting weapons in my company area. There were a lot of strange, memorable things that happened, but I guess I look back upon it, mostly, as the good part of it. 16:03 Most of the time it was comfortable, peaceful and maybe even boring, in the rear area. But, when it was bad, when it was terrifying, it was still really terrifying, like in 1968, everywhere. Interviewer: Did you have a feeling there were enough supplies, food, facilities for self-sanitation? Yes, I think that the people involved in supply did a terrific job. We always—we had our own staff, we had two full time cooks and some assistants and they did good work. It was a little interesting—I found out later in the year, when I went to Da Nang a couple of times, and when I went to Saigon to present this drug survey I had conducted, I saw all these people eating steak and I’ll tell you, we never saw a steak in my company. 17:04 So, here I was in the Americal Division, so I knew there was some filtration going on there, but we had excellent supplies, people, and I think that, as a group, we were very grateful to those people and even the maintenance people did a great job. If we had a truck break down, it wouldn’t take long and it would be fixed. Interviewer: What ways did you find to relieve the stress of all your experiences? Well, when I got there my medical service officer told me that they had plans to build a basketball court and I thought, “Well that’s a good thing to do”, and then a couple of days later I saw these bags of cement coming in and a couple of days later these guys in my company started putting up wooden frames and started making cement. 18:00 Somewhere along the line I asked my medical service officer, I said, “Well, where did you get all that cement?” Well, you understand he didn’t really have an answer for that 8 �and I kind of figured it out later on and I think that’s where some of our steaks went, but we did get the basketball court done. Then the Marine Air Group, MAG 12 had been into—left before I got there, but the Marines, they were dedicated to taking good care of themselves, including exercise. So, they had a racquetball, paddleball, squash, handball court made out of concrete, solid wood floors, brick walls, and I played a lot of handball. I played enough handball to have my hands get kind of pulverized, but I had one of our medical service executive officers, a wonderful guy, and he liked to play handball. 19:00 He found out that I could be teachable, so we played a lot of handball and we had good facilities. I think, probably, the people out on our firebases, I don’t know what they did to break up the tension and do something physical. We had lots of room and the firebases were just small little tops of hills and bunkers, wires, sentries, and I don’t know what those troops did to keep themselves fit, except, of course, they went out into the jungle, but we had good exercise facilities. We could swim in the ocean too and we did that fairly frequently. It was safe by the time that I was there and I don’t know if they would have done that in 1968. Interviewer: At the firebases were the medical facilities adequately protected? 20:00 Every firebase had a bunker protected clinic and the way that medevac was done, at least About through time that I knew what was going on, and that would be 1967. I had a good friend of mine who was in Vietnam as a combat commander and I learned some more from him. The firebases all had bunker protected, underground facilities where they could provide some even units of blood, do some things to triage, or stabilize, a wounded soldier, because unless it was clear that the wounded soldier had to go 9 �immediately to one of the major hospitals, he was usually taken to the firebase, because it was much closer, and would be stabilized there, given plasma, given whatever was appropriate, and then a medevac helicopter would take those wounded soldiers to the division rear. 21:11 Some of the soldiers that were taken out of the jungle, and out of combat, they were not flown in by medevac helicopters, because they were flown in by whatever helicopter pilot was bold and brave enough to go out and go there. I got to know some of those guys, because I flew around doing the drug survey—a different breed of people. Interviewer: Did you visit some of the firebase medical facilities on occasion? I visited all the firebases, all thirty one of them, because I did this drug survey, and I had a responsibility to go out there and support the doctors anyway, so I did a lot of flying in helicopters, but I decided, with two enlisted men who had been out in the My Lai area and we were talking about how bad the drug problem was, and they were saying, “Yeah, it really was”, so we decided, “Well, let’s find out how bad”, so we began to do a questionnaire. 22:07 These two guys were social workers and they knew statistics and I had majored in Psychology, so I knew statistics, so we put together a questionnaire and we distributed it. We had fourteen thousand soldiers in the Americal Division. We had about seven thousand respond and that was good information, and because of that I flew around a lot more. Interviewer: What did the survey show? During the winter of 1970 and the spring of 1971, about thirty to thirty-five percent of enlisted personnel in the rear supply, maintenance type areas, admitted to more than just occasionally. 23:05 They admitted to frequent, or habitual drug use of illegal drugs. 10 �The number of officers was less, but still pretty significant. About ten percent of the questionnaires filled out by troops that were in the field, admitted to frequent use of one or more of the illegal drugs that were available. So, when that was done, we summarized the data and I discussed it with the division surgeon and he kind of was confused. He said, “Well, alright”, and he looked it over and he said, “Well okay, let’s go talk with the division General”, so we did and he kind of, “Hmm”, and I don’t think he knew what to say, really, so a couple of days later he called me and the division surgeon back and he told the division surgeon, “I want this Captain Lulenski to present this material”. 24:05 I said, “Well, yes sir”, and he said, “I mean I want you to go out on MACV headquarters and present this material”, so I did. It was good that we were beginning to leave, because it seemed like the drug problem was overwhelming. We even had LSD sent in from the states and being used. We had two frightening episodes where it was clear that two of our soldiers had been sent LSD and they were completely blown away and they had thrown grenades. That made some of their comrades nervous enough that they turned these guys in to CID and then those two guys, they just disappeared. Interviewer: What drugs were the most used? Well, of course, the most used, or you could say the most used drug was marijuana, because it was so prevalent. 25:07 But, the problem in Vietnam was you weren’t sure what was in it. There was opium, heroin, barbiturates, methamphetamine, cocaine and hallucinogens, and of course, the largest producer of opium in the world then, and now it’s in the Golden Triangle up near the border of China, Laos and Cambodia. When I was in Saigon a CIA officer presented the whole story on how the drug trafficking was done and protected by the Kuomintang Army and sometimes flown into Saigon on Air 11 �America cargo planes, so that was a presentation I was not likely to forget. In fact, we’re going to talk about that in one of our seminars in the spring. 26:04 About the drug problem, the drug trafficking, how it was done, and there’s a great segment in the movie “American Gangster”, about exactly how it was done. It’s very much like I was told by the CIA officer. Interviewer: Were there any policies, procedures, or changes that came about as a result of your drug survey? I don’t know that my drug survey had a real impact, but I think what was happening, was that there was an attempt to try to really rehabilitate and educate the soldiers who were involved with drugs. I think in the early part of the Vietnam War they were just—if they weren’t court marshaled, or severely disciplined, or, I don’t know, worse than that maybe, if they weren’t punished severely, that would be unusual. 27:01 I think by the time I was there, it was more an effort to rehabilitate. I mean, they talk about the drug problem right now and mental illness right now, in 2009, in November. I think there’s a lot of effort that’s gone into help our troops who are presently returning from Iraq and Afghanistan, and I could see some of that when I was in Vietnam. Some attempt to—we had psychiatrists; I mean the psychiatrists weren’t there to be punitive. They were there to be of mental value. We had a psychiatric social worker who was an enlisted man, and he could sit down and try to help one of these young eighteen, or nineteen year olds who probably didn’t know what he was doing. But the drugs were everywhere, on the firebases, and get them through the wire around our perimeter. 28:04 Some of the people who cleaned our Quonset huts, or hooches, some of those people you could buy drugs from. I found that out from some of my company people. Then when two of my 12 �medics, who I work with every day, were caught by the CIA because they were heroin addicts, then I didn’t think I was so smart. Interviewer: Was part of the drug problem due to boredom or fear? You hit it right on the head, boredom was a big cause, because there was nothing to do and in fear a way to get round it and put it away, was the other reason that drugs were used. So, you did that just right. Interviewer: To go back to your time on the base, was entertainment provided, or did you go off the base for entertainment at any time? 29:05 No, the USO and all the people involved did a great job. We had an officers' club and an enlisted men’s club, and we routinely had quality entertainment. There were some groups that came from the states, or from other English speaking countries, Australia, and then we had some groups that were from the Southeast Asia area, but we had lots of entertainment and most of the time it was well done and the troops enjoyed it. We had movies regularly. Once in a while things got out of hand and then we might have some kind of scuffle going on. The doctor who was on call might get called over to the outpatient clinic and sew up somebody who got punched in the face, but it general it was a lot of entertainment in the division rear. 30:08 I don’t know what the guys out on the firebase, I don’t know what they did. I don’t think there was any room to have much entertainment on the firebase. Interviewer: Did you have any opportunity to go on leave? I got to go on one week on R&R and I went to Hawaii and met my wife. Then they had a new policy that came into effect in about 1970, I think, when things started going down 13 �in activity and ferociousness, and I was allowed to return to the United States for one week, so I had two weeks out of fifty-two where I was not in my Quonset hut, in Chu Lai. Interviewer: Back to your time at the facility there, were you awarded any citations or medals? 31:06 I was awarded a Bronze Star, but not for any particular act of bravery and we all received service medals. I can’t remember—I flew a lot, but I did not fly enough to have any award for that time. Combat medics who flew a certain amount of time received an air medal besides their combat medic award and they deserved it. So, I didn’t receive anything special, but that was alright. My friend Stanley was awarded a Silver Star for heroism beyond belief, and that happened in 1967 and he was awarded the Silver Star by the Secretary of Defense and in his interview he has a picture of that and that’s very impressive. 32:00 Interviewer: Can you tell us a little more about his experience? My friend Stan McLaughlin was company commander of the 199th Light Infantry Brigade and he was in at the worst time and in the worst area. He was in Vietnam between June of 1967 and January when he was wounded when he stepped on a mine. He was in the jungle and the Vietcong and NVA were everywhere. So, on one occasion he and his company went out and recovered a captured a long range reconnaissance platoon [patrol] and that was no easy accomplishment, because they were out in the jungle and they didn’t have Air Force support and it was almost impossible to bring helicopter support in. They rescued that group and he received the Bronze Star for that. 33:00 they had another episode where they attacked a large bunker complex that had just been put up. It was probably a regimental battalion headquarters for a NVA or VC 14 �regiment, and he led his troops into there and they, basically, wiped it out, and he exposed himself as the company commander and he received an appropriate award, so he received the Bronze Star and received the Silver Star for those two days in December. Interviewer: Do you recall any particularly humorous or unusual events? Well, you name it and we had it happen. There are all kinds of things that happened that were unexpected, humorous, or almost like crazy. 34:00 I think the one I remember the best was because I had just gotten there. We had an officers' party, and there were a lot of parties. We had parties in the company, which would actually include the officers and the men, as long as I said it was okay to do things together, and I thought it was, but then again I was a doc. We had lots of parties and one of the first ones I was taken to by my administrative service officer, was at the MAG 13, their outdoor patio cookout area, I mean first class, and there were officers there. I didn’t know anybody except my administrative service officer who was a 1st Lieutenant. There were a group of guys that were all hanging out together and I found out a little later that these were all warrant officers. 35:02 Warrant officers were helicopter pilots among other things and they were only eighteen or nineteen years old, so they usually wouldn’t be involved with officers' parties, but they were officers and I want to tell you, I thought I’d seen a lot of crazy things in my college years, but I never saw anything like that. I mean, I don’t know how these guys could have possibly recovered and flew their helicopters the next day, but they recovered. It was humorous and it was crazy and as I look back upon it, it was kind of like a statement on, “Man, this place is really weird. This is not the world that everybody said”. Interviewer: Did you get a photograph of those parties? 15 �No, I didn’t take my camera. I did have some pictures that I ended up saving. 36:00 Some pictures that are interesting of some of the officers and one of one of our firebases. I showed that picture when I presented about the Tet Offensive in one of our classes. The pictures of the firebase and in the spring that firebase was completely overrun, so I had some interesting pictures, but if I had known that party was going to end up like it was, yeah, I would have tried to take a camera, but I was not expecting that. Nobody got hurt, so it was still humorous and crazy, but it was not like dangerous. Interviewer: Were there pranks that were played just for fun? All the time, all the time, every day, every day and they played pranks even on the people like psychiatrists, other officers, like in the medical battalion, would play tricks on the psychiatrists. That was a big time activity in the rear, thinking up ridiculous pranks. 37:03 Interviewer: Can you give examples of some of the pranks? Well, being the company commander, I didn’t get too much involved in doing pranks. I guess I would have gotten more involved, I guess, if I was my medical service corps officer, or one of the other sergeants. Of course, a lot of these pranks and crazy behavior were between a group like officers and the enlisted men, but also between what was called “the druggies” and the other people. In many cases they were way into alcohol too much. There were a lot of pranks and silly things done and I didn’t get too much involved in it. I don’t remember any prank that was pulled on me that made me feel like an idiot. 38:02 It might have happened. Interviewer: What did you think of your fellow officers and soldiers and their preparedness and competence? 16 �Well, you know there are two kinds of officers in my division. There was the obligatory volunteer, or the enlisted officer who went to OCS, or was drafted as an enlisted man and was allowed to go to OCS, or of course, anyone who graduated from one of the military academies. The people in the higher ranks, most of those were career officers. There were big differences, big differences between the career officers and the part time limited action officers. I had to deal with five or six division surgeons, all of them were career medical officers. 39:01 Their attitude was quite a bit different than myself and the other officers that I worked with. We knew we were only going to be in the military for two years, but that was all alright. One of the things that was really disturbing to me and a lot of people, and my friend Stan, was you know, when someone got to be down to a hundred days left in their commitment, their interest would obviously start going down and they would start marking off the calendar. It became two a digit midget once you had ninety-nine days and you look at the enemy and there’s nobody counting off days who is in the enemies group. Their commitment was as long as it took, so there was a real conference between officers and officers and between viewing the time in Vietnam, on our side, and the time in Vietnam on the other side. 40:00 Interviewer: Was there a distinction between the career officer and the non-career officer in Vietnam? Well, the career officer was looking at his career and things that would benefit his career. Why did they go to Vietnam? Well, I got to know the division surgeons pretty well and I got to know one of them pretty well. Mostly they went because it was a way they could get advanced in rank and spent a tour in combat. Well, I wasn’t going to get advanced in rank by a tour in combat, nor is any other doctor who is going to be in the military for 17 �two years. It was totally inappropriate and there were a lot of differences like that. A career military officer is looking at his career and what else would you expect him to do? Interviewer: Were they more of an administrative type people rather than hands on medical people? Well, the division surgeons, as a group, especially the one who was in my same field of surgery, he was a very accomplished and dedicated surgeon. 41:08 He was in charge of the residency training program at Fitzsimons Hospital for many years. I actually talked with him several years after I got back. Obgyn division surgeon, Obstetrics/Gynecology, well I don’t think he did very much and yeah, there was a lot of administration for the division surgeon, the medical battalion officers, and those are the people I knew. I don’t know about operations officers, or security, or intelligence officers. I think a lot of the medical officers were career and they were involved in patient care, they were at the hospitals. This ears, nose and throat surgeon, Dr. Kekorian, man he handled some of the worst cases. If they had some terrible neck wound, they had fully trained ear, nose and throat surgeons at both hospitals, but he was probably the best, most experienced, head and neck surgeon. 42:08 So, he would get called in often for the worst civilian and our own American troop casualties. Interviewer: Did you think, at the time, to keep a diary of your experiences, or was it something you think you didn’t want to remember? I wish I had now, because my attitude about everything has changed a lot. For a lot of years I was just very resentful and actually, it took many years until my friend Stan and I began to feel the need to share and get rid of some of these bad feelings. I had a lot more bad feeling than he did, but there was a lot of animosity while I was there. 43:01 18 �Animosity between career officers and non-career officers, animosity between the drinking sergeants and the druggie enlisted men and we had racial problems too, no question about it. Anyone that wants to say that was not true is just trying to fool you, or are dazed and confused. We had lots of racial problems. So, there was a lot of resentment and if I had it to do over again, where I am now, I would have liked to have kept a diary, because I would have remembered a lot more. Now, since my attitude has changed and also true for my lifelong friend Stan, we have remembered things, we’d just talk, I was just with him and we remembered things that we had never remembered before. I don’t mean just a few things, I mean a lot of things, a lot of things I’ve answered to you, and you have very good questions, are things that if you’d asked me ten years ago I probably would have said--I probably would have just sat here and said nothing. 44:06 So, I think there’s a lot of goodness that comes out of history project, things we’re doing now, today, the class we’re holding today, here is Southwest Michigan and I think it’s even changed the attitude of the American people. If you were here for our week-end last year, and if you could come for our veteran, Vietnam Veterans week-end this coming June, where we’re going to have the eighty percent replica of the Vietnam War memorial, there’s been a huge change, people want to know, they want to hear what veterans have to say, they want to know what their feelings are and they don’t necessarily think the Vietnam War was a good idea, but there’s no reason to blame our soldiers, especially not the ones who either enlisted, or were drafted, or were obligatory volunteers. 45:02 Interviewer: did you have a chance to interact with any of the Vietnamese? 19 �Yes, I was in charge of the medical assistance program where we went to help the Vietnamese every other Saturday, in a village that was on an island in the river that was near Chu Lai, and I don’t know the name of the river, but maybe I did at one time, but we interacted with them a lot, because we would go every other Saturday morning and we— actually I had the authority then, in some cases, if there was really a sick child, or an adult with bad infection, I had the authority to have that person taken by, we had a medevac helicopter, not one that stayed there . We would never have a helicopter stay in a place like that; they would come and drop us off. We had the authority, we had two radio operators. And we had the authority to call in the medical helicopter if I decided that we were going to send this child to the hospital. 46:05 We interacted pretty well there—it was not like the civil action programs which we learned about in our course. Those people, like the leader of our group, Don Alsbro, they interacted with the people all the time. Fred McLaughlin, helped the people relocate in a fortified hamlet. He interacted with the people all the time and I appreciated getting to know something about the Vietnamese and their history. I never learned much of the language. There’s always problems trying to interact with the people, and one Saturday when our helicopter dropped us off and flew away and we walked around the building where we had always had the medical assistance program—the back of the building was where we landed and that was still there, but the front of the building was gone and there were no people there. There were some graves there from the home security forces, and the Vietcong were proving that, “You may think that this is secure and you may have your children taken care of by these Americans, but you’re wrong”. 47:07 then we didn’t do any more medical assistance programs. 20 �Interviewer: How did the Vietnamese people treat you, or respond to you, other than in the formal setting where you’re trying to help treat them, but in day to day interaction? The day to day interaction was limited to the Vietnamese that were either working, or in something that involved our military, so we had people that would come in and actually clean the clothes, they’re called “hooch maids’, and there wasn’t much interaction there. It was like servants and you didn’t have much opportunity to get to know people. Now, I know a lot more about how many of our soldiers did get to know people, but I didn’t have that opportunity. I told you I never went beyond the fence, so I never, really, was going to have the time to spend, to sit down and try to understand. 48:10 But, I’m glad we had those civil action programs. Now, a group of our people just went back and the Vietnamese are, at least apparently, half glad that we were there. They are very friendly and the animosity that you might think would be overwhelming, the difference in political philosophy that’s still there, the group that went from our “Lest We forget” group, they’re going to present their experience , but I already know it was terrific. Interviewer: Now, when you became a “two digit midget”, did your behavior change at all? Not much, not much, but I’ll give you an example that I remember now, and I don’t know why I remember it now. There were a lot of bad things that physicians had to do and orthopedic physicians at the hospitals still had to do a lot of amputations. 49:08 It wasn’t like the Civil War, but it was still bad and I found out from various physicians that it was a syndrome among orthopedic surgeons, a pattern of behavior, when they get down to a certain limited few days left, they wouldn’t want to do any more amputations. They 21 �would try to get one of the other surgeons to do it and that was not just isolated, it was like, “I don’t want to do this any more, it’s not why I became a physician. I don’t want to spend time doing amputations”, so there’s a good example of what happens when you get down near the end, among medical personnel. Interviewer: Were there any certain precautions you had to take going into the villages? No, I didn’t go into the villages. 50:06 I didn’t ever come close to getting hit by a rocket, but we all kind of just sort of hid out, you know we hid out. We kind of stayed in our own area. We didn’t have a desire—of course I went to firebases, but we didn’t have a desire to go out there, because it was pretty safe where we were. Interviewer: Do you recall the day you left? I’m a little hesitant to tell you what happened when I left, because up to this point I don’t think anybody would say that I was unbalanced, but leaving Vietnam was an incredible horror show, an incredible and horrific time for me. 51:03 I’ll sum it up in two minutes and then we can finish our interview. I was supposed to go from Chu Lai to Da Nang and from Da Nang to Cam Ranh Bay, everyone left from Cam Ranh Bay. I had to have my 201 file and the clever doctor that I was, I found out the sooner you sign into Cam Ranh Bay, the sooner you leave the country, you don’t have to wait until your deros date, you can leave early and boy that was exciting, and so exciting I didn’t, even hardly, want to tell anybody else. So, I got all ready to go and I go over to get my 201 file and it’s not there. It’s not there and I’ve been there for three hundred and sixth two days, how could it not be there? That I remember all very well, “Don’t know”, “Well, find out”, and they found out, “Well, it’s in Da Nang, it’s a company in Da Nang”, “Well, I’ve never been in 22 �a company in Da Nang”. 52:04 So, then I had the privilege to go the Adjutant General's office and boy, whoever saw me, and fortunately it wasn’t Don, because he was in the Adjutant General's office, in that same division, but it wasn’t him. Some officer had to put up with me demanding why my 201 file had been misplaced. Finally the Adjutant General of the division demanded, his medical company commander talk to the Adjutant General and I made enough of a stink that I got to and he was not happy with me either, but he had a helicopter go and get my 201 file. He brought it back, I got in the plane and flew to Da Nang and the plane was overbooked. They take us off the plane and we sat in the tarmac about eight hours until that plane went down to Cam Ranh Bay and came back. Then we got on the plane in the dark, went down to Cam Ranh Bay and now the time for signing in early is pretty much gone away, but that was nothing compared to the next couple days. 53:02 My wallet fell out of my pants and I had no ID card for about six hours total panic. I went in the same door to take my duffle bag and I was supposed to hand my manifest in and go out the other door, but instead I went back out the same door I came in, so now I didn’t have a seat on the plane. I went to the officers' club and was sitting there, and the wallet was returned by a warrant officer, by the way. I’m sitting there and this guy comes in and says, “Is there a Captain Lulenski here?” As soon as he said that I looked at my briefcase and thought, “Oh no, you didn’t hand your manifest in”. He comes over and I said, “I know why you’re here”, and he said, “Captain, you do not have a seat on the plane”. I remember saying, “Just do something, I mean, get me on the next plane”. 54:02 Well, before that happened, that night we were all in the officers barracks and just to prove a point some sapper—some sappers came in and they blew up one of those huge oil depots, storage depots like we had here on the 23 �island, St. Joe river, gigantic, blew it up, blew some of the officers in the building I was in out of their bunks, and now the Cam Ranh Bay airport is closed and it’s on red alert. Nobody’s going to get a new manifest, nobody’s going to get on a plane, no planes are going to leave, and no planes are going to come in. That went on for two days, everything was totally shut down and the explosion was—I can’t describe it, I mean, it was like an atomic bomb and it was close, straight at the end of the runway. 55:02 So, finally I did get some sergeant to go and take me and I got a new manifest. Now, I’m kind of past my date that I was supposed to leave, I mean I’ve been there forever now, but I’m gonna get on the plane and I go and get up on the stairs and this is the last thing I’ll finish with. There’s a drug smelling dog there with some type of MP and he sees I’m a Captain in the medical corps, its right here, and he said, “Captain, do you have and type of drugs or illegal weapons?” I said, “I only have a prescription for sleep medicine from one of my fellow medical officers”. He looked at it, it was a prescription, it was my name, it was a benign sleep medicine, and he said, “You can put that in my hat and you can get on the plane”. 56:01 I looked at him and I looked at the dog, looked at the plane and I got on the plane. That was my last moment in Vietnam. Interviewer: A memorable one and because of your delay, your family was probably waiting for you to arrive, could you contact them? No, when the base is on “red alert” you don’t contact anybody, and once you’re in the plane you don’t contact anybody. I contacted them when I got to Tacoma, Washington. Travis Air Force Base, it was Travis. 24 �Interviewer: Now you mentioned one friendship that you made and continued after your service. Were you involved, or did you have a number of others you were in contact with? No, and that’s because of the nature of being there, but my friend Stan and I went to high school together and I just had dinner with he and his wife, and my wife, about three days ago. 57:01 We were very close before and stayed that way. I’ve never gone to a reunion of the Americal Division, so I’ve never had the chance to see if any of the other medical officers were interested. I maintained contact with two medical officers who served with me for a while, but I guess I should call Dick Rose up , I think I should, but now, you know, I’m thinking about going back to a reunion of the Americal, because there were good people there, and we have some people here that were in the Americal and they’re good people. Interviewer: Now, did your medical experience in the service help guide you to your current specialty? I had to make a decision of a specialty to go into before I went into the military, but my experience there solidified my dedication to being a surgeon, well my father was a surgeon too. 58:03 He was a surgeon with the 82nd Airborne. He was fully trained and I was kind of going down that path anyway, but I think it strengthened my personal desire to be a surgeon. I was very impressed with the dedication of the medical officers. I was overwhelmingly awed by the heroism and the dedication of the corpsmen, the medical corpsmen combat medics. I guess it certainly has changed my view of nurses and people that I work with that are in medicine, changed my attitude when I was in my training because of the way those people acted and how long they worked. We had that Firebase 25 �Maryann overrun and there were a hundred and forty casualties, about half were killed and the other half was wounded. 59:01 I went over and helped out for a while because they needed every surgeon they could find to help, all the ones that were in charge of specialties, even eye surgery, and those people like my father, they just kept on, they just kept on twenty –four hours. I know they did—my father operated for seventy hours behind German lines on D-Day, D-Day plus one, so I guess the military brings out the best in a lot of people, certainly some of the doctors I know, it did. Interviewer: Can you describe your arrival back in the states; did you have any kind of re- indoctrination to normalcy then? No, coming back to the states was just get out of your uniform as fast you could and hope that you weren’t going to be attacked by some group, because you were a “hateful baby killer”. 60:00 Interviewer: Were you afraid of that? You bet, yup, and it was pretty much the same, there was not anybody gonna say, “Welcome Home, you did a great job”. Stan, when he got to his assignment place, he figured, you know, someone would say something—here’s a guy with Vietnamese decorations for doing work in the hamlet and the Silver Star, the Bronze Star with V, Bronze Star, this is a military hero and no one said anything. They said, “You’re going to go to your next assignment at such and such”, and that’s kind of the way with me, they said, “You’re going to Fort Carson Colorado”, and I said, “Okay”. So, it’s not too surprising that when I left the service, I didn’t continue in the reserves. But, it was the American public had turned so much against it by 1971. 1:01 You could just feel the 26 �coldness and the—actually it was worse than coldness, there was actually absolute hate— didn’t want to be in the war. Interviewer: Do you see any similarities between that and what we’re seeing today? Yeah, we don’t have time for that hour, but I sure do, sure do, that nature of the warfare, and the most recent thing is the taking away of many free fire zones, exactly the way it was when I was there. You can see the enemy, but you can’t shoot the enemy. Interviewer: Is there anything else you would like to talk about? No, it’s been excellent and I want to congratulate you on an excellent job and if you developed those questions yourself then you are a special person. 1:50 Interviewer: Thank you for coming. 27 �28 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LulenskiG1032V Title A name given to the resource Lulenski, Gary (Interview transcript and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lulenski, Gary Description An account of the resource Dr. Gary Lulenski was an ‘obligatory volunteer' and held the rank of captain for the entirety of his service because of his previous medical schooling. He was stationed in Chu Lai, Vietnam as a Medical Company Commander for the Americal Division. Completed a large-scale drug survey which showed interesting trends. His service was from 1970-1971. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Massa, Richard (Interviewer) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings United States. Army Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-11-19 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/b83c5f2f9e0ca4689d129d8c6be658b8.mp4 517d9ef81118aff9b5b0dcaf7afc6cbe https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ee7b6033cfba88c7c9f92269d1f37bdb.pdf c0442628dbc96c7e3637a1d7ce1db608 PDF Text Text Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project Interview Name of Interviewee: Phil Lugtigheid Name of War: Vietnam War Length of Interview: (00:17:21) Childhood and Pre-Enlistment (00:04) • Born in Grand Rapids, MI • Enlisted in the Air Force at age 17 in April 1962 Training (01:30) • Enlisted in Detroit, and was sent to Lackland AFB in San Antonio, TX for 5 weeks of basic training. • (02:00) He then went to Chanute AFB in Illinois for 34 weeks of training to learn to be a flight controls and autopilot repairman. Active Duty (02:25) • After training, he was sent to George AFB in Southern California. • (03:01) His wing would go to Spain for 6 months at a time for air defense command. • (03:30) He also spent some time in Alaska. • (04:45) They would train to support airplanes on alert status by boarding airplanes on a few minutes notice with whatever equipment they could grab. They would be dropped off at the other side of base and they would have to repair flight systems with whatever they had brought along. • (05:35) He was also sent to Taiwan for 2 ½ weeks, and then to Vietnam for 4 ½ months where his wing flew Army and Marine support missions. They stopped in Hawaii and the Wake Islands on the way over. • (07:57) He made many friends while he was in the Air Force, but he did not stay in contact with them. • (08:30) His job was to repair autopilot and other systems which the pilots reported as malfunctioning. They were generally electronics fixes. • He would communicate by letters and phone calls while he was overseas. • (10:21) He took some courses at a community college when he was in California. • (11:16) While they were in Vietnam, they were attacked by the NVA a few times while they were on their base in Da Nang, Vietnam. The NVA were able to get on the base a few times and they blew up some airplanes. • (12:30) He was in the Air Force for 4 years, but was only in Vietnam during the early part of the war. • (13:36) He was supposed to be sent back to Vietnam, but he didn’t have enough time left on his enlistment to go back. Post-Service (14:03) • He went to Michigan after he was discharged with a friend. • (15:35) He attended Grand Rapids Junior College and Western Michigan College on the GI Bill. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Veterans History Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Grand Valley State University. History Department Description An account of the resource The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1914- Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Subject The topic of the resource Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American Michigan--History, Military Oral history Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American United States--History, Military United States. Air Force United States. Army United States. Navy Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smither, James Boring, Frank Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context RHC-27 Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LugtigheidP Title A name given to the resource Lugtigheid, Paul (Interview outline and video), 2009 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lugtigheid, Paul Description An account of the resource Paul Lugtigheid was born in Grand Rapids, MI and served in the Air Force during the Vietnam War. He joined the Air Force at age 17, and became an autopilot and flight controls mechanic. He was based in California and spent some tours of duty in Spain. He also spent a tour of duty in Da Nang, Vietnam on a base working support for aircraft. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kailey Rosema (Interviewer) Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history Veterans History Project (U.S.) United States--History, Military Michigan--History, Military Veterans Video recordings Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American United States. Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a> Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving Image Text Relation A related resource Veterans History Project (U.S.) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2009-05-31 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf video/mp4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives