471
24
26018
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/cddd1191c4db4a414bbda45710dcfe39.pdf
529201296ad552c876e0510dbb95b330
PDF Text
Text
�LANSING NORTH AMERICAN INDIAN CENTER
The Michigan Indian Benefit Association is a nonprofit, 501 (C) 3,
tax exempt community based organization.
1968.
The MIBA was founded in
The goals of the MIBA are:
1.
To promote and enhance economic, social and personal
opportunities for members of the Lansing Indian community.
2.
To foster and promote an appreciation and understanding of
Native American culture to urban Indians and non-Indians in
the greater Lansing area.
The MIBA administers the Lansing North American Indian Center,
which
sponsors numerous programs and activities. They include: congregate
dining for Native American Elderly; transportation services;
community health program; information and referral; and client
advocacy.
Social and cultural activities include: community feasts;
childrens' Christmas party; bowling tournaments; Annual Pow Wow; and
craft classes.
LANSING INDIAN EDUCATION PROGRAM
The Lansing School District has requested three year funding from the
u. s.
Department of Education to operate a program of tutorial
services for Native American students in grades K-12.
This program
has been designed in coordination with parents of Indian children
attending Lansing Public Schools.
Activities with Indian students are conducted by four staff people
who work with the children in their regular schools.
Additional
activities are provided that enrich childrens cultural pride and
awareness of other Indian students in our community.
The program is coordinated through the Office of State and Federal
Programs of the Lansing School District.
374-4118.
For more information call
�In Memory of
ELMER SEBASTIAN
May 18, 1912 - December 3, 1987
"1985 Indian of the Year"
V.I.P.
EMCEE:
POW WOW COMMITTEE
Tic Bush
ARENA DIRECTOR: Bill Wheatley
HEAD DANCERS:
George Martin
&
Sid Martin
CHAIRPERSON:
Adrienne A..:.lir.g
COORDINATOR:
Linda Van Lake
TRADER REGISTRATION: Elizabeth Kimewon
DANCE REGISTRATION:
HOST DRUM:
All Nations Singers
HEAD SINGER:
Ben Bearskin Jr.
Kathy Genereaux
Debbie Renzi
FOOD:
Linda Gould
VETERAN DANCER: Frank Bush
GIVEAWAY:
Rosie De Land
INVOCATION:
Betty Pamp
ADMISSIONS:
Ken De Land
HEAD JUDGES:
Paul Johnson
Judith Pamp
&
&
�P R O G R AM
SATURDAY
2:00 p,m.
Grand Entry
2:15 - 5:15 p,m.
Afternoon Dance & Children's Dance Contest
7:00 p,m,
Grand Entry
7:15 - 10:00 p,m.
Evening Dance & Children's Dance Contest
**PLEASE NO PICTURE TAKING DURING GRAND ENTRY AND HONOR SONGS
**********************************************
SUNDAY
12:00 p,m.
Children's Tug-a-War Contest
2:15 - 5:00 p,m.
Afternoon Dance &
Adult Dance Contest
**Spectators are more than welcome to join in on Inter-Tribal dances.
�Head Dancers - George and Sid Martin
Head dancers help set the tone of a PowWow. They lead the dancers and are
honored by the ancestors we honor.
Respect is given head dancers because
they are in the forefront, living examples of these ways given to us.
Host Drum - All Nations Singers
Head Singer - Ben Bearskin Jr.
It is said the drum is the heartbeat of our people.
So too the host drum
is the heartbeat of a Pow-wow.
Being host drum requires more than good
voices and strong beats.
Cultural sensitivity is required to sing appropriate songs and to combine the humor and dignity of a happening like a
Pow-wow.
�GRAND ENTRY
First event of a Pow-Wow dance
is to create a circle, loosely
on the outer perimeter of the
dance area, representing a sacred circle.
Participants signal
Grandfather and our ancestors to
witness this physical testimony
of belief in and continuation of
the old ways.
Because so much attention both
spiritual and physical, is focused on this event the people
in front do, indeed, have a great
place of honor and responsibility.
FLAG SONG
Flag song - The Flag song to the
Indian people is the same as the
National Anthem to non-Indians.
All people will be asked to remove
their hats for all veterans who
have served their people.
�Head Veteran -Frank Bush
U.S. Marine Corps
Wounded WW II
The head veteran leads the
Grand Entry with the flag and
represents all of the Indian
people who gave their lives for
our country. He also designates other flag bearers and
officiates feather-pickups.
The head veteran is one of the
most important dancers of the
Lansing Pow-Wow.
The Pow-Wow
Also known as a dance or a doings.
The Pow-Wow has a very
historic value to the American
Indians. These dances and gatherings have gone on for hundreds of years. Historically
in the Michigan area these
gatherings were in the spring
and summer. At this time the
trading took place and the
people had a chance to get together and see their family
and friends whom they had not
seen all winter. Today the
people still gather and hold
these dances.
They have a
chance to meet old friends and
to make new ones. They also
use this time to help educate
Non-Indians to the Indian way
of life.
�Traditional Men Dancers
Traditional men dancers come
first in the Grand March because they do indeed come
first.
They are the head
men, the chiefs, the clan
leaders, the veterans, the
healers, and the elders.
The
higest honors go to them because the fate of the people
rests on their shoulders.
Traditional Women Dancers
Great dignity and pride belong
to traditional women dancers.
Raising children to be able to
fulfill their roles in adult
life is for these shapers of
people.
Crazy Horse once said
"When the women are gone the
people will be dead". When
you view the spirit of the
traditional women you will
know.
�MEN FANCY DANCERS
"A MODERN DANCE WITH ITS ROOTS
IN THE OLD GRASS DANCE",
THIS IS JUST A MODERN EXPRESSION
OF INDIAN PEOPLE COMBINING THE
COLORFUL OUTFITS AND FAST PACE
OF TODAY WITH THE GREAT TRADITIONS OF YESTERDAY,
WOMEN SHAWL DANCERS
EXUBERANT EXPRESSIONS
OF LIFE IS WHAT FANCY
AND SHAWL DANCERS ARE,
BRIGHT FEATHERSJ SPARKLING BEADWORKJ AND EXPERT CONTROL OF INTRICATE MOVEMENT, ALL
THIS COMBINED WITH PERSONAL AURA TO MAKE THESE
DANCERS UNIQUE IN STYLE,
�TRADERS
BEFORE THE INTRODUCTION OF BEADS AND SILVERJ
OUR PEOPLE MADE ARM BANDS OUT OF COPPER AND
EMBROIDERED THEIR CLOTHING WITH DYED MOOSE
HAIR, WHEN GLASS BEADSJ NEEDLESJ AND HATS
WERE INTRODUCED THE INDIAN TRADER BECAME AN
INTEGERAL PART OF EVERY Pow-wow. TRADERS
SUPPLY THE MATERIALS NEEDED FOR ARTS AND
CRAFTS AS WELL AS BEADWORKJ MOCASSINS AND
BASKETRY,
SPECIAL FOODS HAVE ALSO BECOME AVAILABLE
AT Pow-wows AND NO Pow-wow IS COMPLETE WITHOUT A BOWL OF CORN SOUP AND A PIECE OF FRYBREAD,
�820
West
Saginaw
Lansing,
Ml .
48915
Ph . -
487-6939
State License NO. W011433W
BINGO SUPPLIES
Retail Sales of:
-Daubers
-Chips
-Wands
-Bingo Glue
-Plastics
Supplier for licensed
Bingo GamesBingo Papers, Equipment,
and other supplies.
GOOD LUCK
WITH THE 11TH ANNUAL
LANSING POW WOW
VEGAS PARTY EQUIPMENT
All your equipment needs
for your fundraising project.
-Black Jack Tables
-Wheel Games
-Roulette
-Craps
CHECK OUR PRICES!
�ANDERSON & CARDINAL, P.C.
CERTIFIED PUBLIC ACCOUNTANTS
500 LANSING ROAD
CHARLOTTE, MICHIGAN 48813
BEST vJ ISHES
LANSING INDIAN CENTER
11TH ANNUAL POW WOW
Jay E. Cardinal,C.P.A.
Richard M. Anderson,C.P.A.
(517)
uvEGAS OF THE NORTHU
Kewadin Casinos
CONGRATULATIONS
AND
BEST WISHES
11TH ANNUAL ALL-INDIAN POW WOW
Kewadin Bay
Bay Mills
Vegas Kewadin
2186 Shunk Road
Sault Ste. Marie
645-7626
BRUCE AUGENSTEIN, CLU, CHFC
Kewadin Shores
3035 Mackinac Trail
St. Ignace
Just for you - Life, Health and
Disability Insurance.
Retirement and Financial Planning.
Call 906/632-0530 for Hours of Operation
BINGO
Seven Nights a Week - 7 p.m.
2151 Shunk Road
Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan
349-8940
2199 Jolly Road
Okemos, Michigan
(517)
2510 W. MICHIGAN AVENUE/ LANSING, MICHIGAN 48917 / (517) 372-4626
PRESIDENT
AL VIN J. PRESSLEY
VICE-PRESIDENT
TED R. HARTMAN
FINANCIAL SECRETARY-TREASURER
RONALD A. DAVIS
RECORDING SECRETARY
BRENDA WIBERT
CHAIRMAN, BARGAINING COMMITTEE
LEWIS W. SCHULTZ
BEST WISHES
LANSING INDIAN CENTER POW WOW
FROM
UAW LOCAL 602
�UAW
Local652
Gary Watson ........... President
Charlie Hoesl . Fin. Sec.-Treasurer
Ralph Shepard . . . Vice President
Ron E. Smith . . . . . Recording Sec.
Sening Our Membership
Over 40 Years
372-7581
426 Clare Street, Lansing
CAPITOL
FEDERAL
SAVINGS
BANK
BUILDING
A BETTER
TOMORROW
TOGETHER.
Where Futures Begin
LANSING COMMUNITY COLLEGE
Quality Education And Training For The Future
Established 1957
An equal opportunity, affirmative action college
�PRESCRIPTIONS
UPDYKE PHARMACY
909 W. Saginaw
Lansing, Ml
484-2543
"YOUR FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD
COMMUNITY PHARMACY"
For a fast answer on your
loan request, call
Loan By Phone
482-LOAN
0 FIRST°FAMUICAJ3ank
ts)
Member FDIC
·--
BEST WISHES FROM THE MICHIGAN
STATE BUILDING AND CONSTRUCTION
TRADES COUNCIL
Law Enforcement is an &sential Factor in Good Human
and Public Relations. It is a Pleasure and an Honor
to Serre Your Community as Sheriff of Ingham County.
Allan K. Davis-Sheriff
Tim Nichols
President
Ken Case
Secretary/Treasurer
�MICHIGAN INDIAN EMPLOYMENT &
TRAINING SERVICES, INC.
Administrative Office
2405 E. Mt. Hope • Lansing, Ml 48910 • 15171482-3326
REGION I
REGION VI
237 E. Cloverland Drive
Ironwood, MI 49938
(906) 932-4579
315 Clay Street, Suite 202
Muskegon, MI 49440
(616) 722-7769
REGION II
REGION VII
325 E. Lake Street
Petoskey, MI 49770
(616) 347-9330
300 W. Grand River Ave.
Lansing, MI 48906
( 517) 482-3338
REGION IV
REGION VIII
204 Court Street
Mt. Pleasant, MI
( 517) 772-4435
638 6 Jackson Road, Suites A l.c B
Ann Arbor, MI 48103
(313) 761-9440
48858
REGIOt4 V
REGION IX
611 W. Court Street
Flint, MI 48503
(313) 235-7029
1651 W. Centre Street
Portage, MI 49002
(616) 323-0234
We salute the
Michigan Indian
Benefit Association
& the Lansing North
American Indian
Center.
£8
Michigan
National
Bank
�CAPITAL GAME SUPPLY COMPANY
Ph.(517) 589-9350
LeslieJ MI. 49251
3609Hull Rd.
Suppliers of:
BINGO PRODUCTSJ SUPPLIES and EQUIPMENT
CHARITY GAME TICKETS
CASINO SUPPLIES and EQUIPMENT
Manuf acfurers of:
CASINO EQUIPMENT
Attention: Tony Detore
Potawatomi Indian Nation, Inc.
TOOLAN
DELICATESSEN
53237 Townhall Rd., Dowagiac,Ml.49047
918 W. SAGINAW ST.
I
LANSING, MICHIGAN
Black A sh Baskets
Classes- Saturday 1=00 p.m.
(616) 782-6323
Good Luck
M.I.B.A.
GROCE RIES
LIQUORS
BEER
WINES
DAILY LOTTERY- LOTTO
OPEN UNTIL
CALL
1=00 a.m. Fri, Sat.
48 2-2981
FOR LOTTO #'s
HOUSE
. OF
Smith Pharmacy
226 East Grand River
Lansing, Mich.
PHONE 482-2013
We Collect All Utility Bills
SUBS & PIZZA
HOMEMADE PIZZA
PASTIES & SUBS
SOFT SERVE ICE CREAM
SUNDAES & MALTS
1585 HASLETT Rd.
HASLETT, Ml.
PHONE= 339-9623
�1.
B.
L O C A L
E.
W.
N 0.
6
6
5
5205 S. Pem14y£.vtmia. Ave..
La.n.6ing, M.ic.lugan 48911
Phone: 393-5530
BEST WISHES
LANSING INDIAN CENTER POW WOW
,.
FROil
INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOV
OF
ELECTRICAL WORKERS
SERVING ALL, OR PARTS OF, THE FOLLOWING COUNTIES SINCE 1926:
Ingham, Ea.tQu, Clin,t.on, Uv.iu9-~.ton, Ionia, Sluawa,uee and Gluttlo.t.
�Inc.
Bruce McMillan-Owner
• 20 yrs. experience
*FREE ESTIMATES
*INSURANCE WORK
--
-~
I
~
Business Hours
8 a.m.-6 p.m.
627-1211
5078 W. Saginaw • Grand Ledge, MI 48837
BEST WISHES
REELECT
LANSING CITY
COUNCILMAN
Tony
Benavides
TONY BENAVIDES Believes "YOU" Deserve the Best
Paid For By Citizens For Tony Benavides. Mike Lenkowski . Treasurer
I
Saturday• By Appolnbnent
aa
Telephone:
.
•
���
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Native American Publication Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Native Americans
Indians of North America
Anthropology
Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals
Michigan
Description
An account of the resource
Selected digital surrogates of published and unpublished materials from the Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection dealing with different aspects of human culture and anthropology, with an emphasis on Native American people, events, organizations, and activities in Michigan. Includes newsletters, event programs, flyers, posters and other printed materials.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Gillis, Edward V.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American Publication Collection (RHC-14)</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-02-21
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Relation
A related resource
Gi-gikinomaage-min Project (Kutsche Office of Local History)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-14
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1958-2000
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection, RHC-14</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-14_lansing-pow-wow-program_1988-06
Title
A name given to the resource
Lansing Pow Wow, 1988
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1988-06
Description
An account of the resource
Lansing Pow Wow program, Lansing MI, 1988, collected by Edward Gillis included as part of his Native American publication collection.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Lansing North American Indian Center
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals
Indians of North America
Michigan
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/d33d144ac770b3904549224ae02c4cd4.pdf
28a8e0ccf3704d6a3fb258d65eb6763a
PDF Text
Text
LANSING POW WOW
90
19
LANSING NORTH AMERICAN INDIAN CENTER
814 West Saginaw Street
Lansing, Michigan 48915
(517)
487-5409
�P R O G R A M
SATURDAY
2:p.m.
GRAND ENTRY
2:15 - 5:15 p.m.
Afternoon Dance
&
Children's Dance Contest
7:00 p.m.
GRAND ENTRY
7:15 - 10:00p.m.
Evening
Dance
&
Children's Dance Contest
SUNDAY
12:00 p.m.
Children's Tug-a-War Contest
2:15 - 5:00 p.m.
Afternoon Dance &
Adult Dance Contest
* Spectators are more than welcome to join in on Inter-Tribal dances.
POW WOW COMMITTEE
V.I.P.
EMCEE:
Tic ~ush
CHAIRPERSON:
Rosie DeLand
ARENA DIRECTOR:
Bill Wheatley
COORDINATOR:
Linda VanLake
HEAD DANCERS:
Shannon Martin
TRADER REGISTRATION:Elizabeth Kimewon
Fred Raphael
DANCE REGISTRATION: Adrienne Ailing
HOST DRUM:
ALL NATIONS
Kathy Genereaux
VETERAN DANCER:
Frank Bush
FOOD:
Linda Gould
HEAD JUDGES:
Dave Shananaquet
GIVEAWAY:
Rosie DeLand
ADMISSIONS:
Ken DeLand
ON GROUNDS ACCOUNTANT: Hank Rowland
&
�The Pow-Wow
Also known as a dance or a doings. The Pow-Wow has a very
historic value to the American
Indians. These dances and gatherings have gone on for hundreds of years. Historically
in the Michigan area these
gatherings were in the spring
and summer. At this time the
trading took place and the
people had a chance to get together and see their family
and friends whom they had not
seen all winter. Today the
people still gather and hold
these dances. They have a
chance to meet old friends and
to make new ones. They also
use this time to help educate
Non-Indians to the Indian way
of life.
GRAND ENTRY
First event of a Pow-Wow dance is to create a
circle, loosely on the outer perimeter of the
dance area, representing a sacred circle.
Participants signal Grandfather and our ancestors
to witness this physical testimony of belief
in and continuation of the old ways.
Because so much attention both spiritual and
physical, is focused on this event the people
in front do, indeed, have a great place of honor
and responsibility.
FLAG SONG
Flag song The flag song to the Indian people
is the same as the National Anthem to non-Indians.
All people will be asked to remove their hats
for all veterans who have served their people.
HEAD DANCERS
Head dancers help set the tone of a Pow-Wow.
They
lead the dancers and are honored by the ancestors
we honor.
Respect is given head dancers because
they are in the forefront, living examples of
these ways given to us.
�HOST DRUM
It is said the drum is the heartbeat of our people.
So too the host drum is the heartbeat of a Pow-Wow.
Being host drum requires more than good voices and
strong beats. Cultural sensitivity is required to
sing appropriate songs and to combine the humor and
dignity of a happening like a Pow-Wow.
Head Veteran -Frank Bush
U.S. Marine Corps
Wounded WW II
The head veteran leads the
Grand Entry with the flag and
represents all of the Indian
people who gave their lives for
our country. He also designates other flag bearers and
officiates feather-pickups.
The head veteran is one of the
most important dancers of the
Lansing Pow-Wow.
�Traditional Men Dancers
Traditional men dancers come
first in the Grand March because they do indeed come
first.
They are the head
men, the chiefs, the clan
leaders, the veterans, the
healers, and the elders. The
higest honors go to them because the fate of the people
rests on their shoulders.
Traditional Women Dancers
Great dignity and pride belong
to traditional women dancers.
Raising children to be able to
fulfill their roles in adult
life is for these shapers of
people.
Crazy Horse once said
"When the women are gone the
people will be dead". When
you view the spirit of the
traditional women you will
know.
�Men Fancy Dancers
"A modern dance with its roots
in the old grass dance".
This is just a modern expression
of Indian people combining the
colorful outfits and fast pace
of today with the great traditions of yesterday.
Women Shawl Dancers
Exuberant expressions
of life is what fancy
and shawl dancers are.
Bright feathers, sparkling beadwork, and expert control of intricate movement. All
this combined with personal aura to make these
dancers unique in style.
�MICHIGAN INDIAN EMPLOYMENT &
TRAINING SERVICES, INC.
Admlnletratlve Office
2450 Delhi Commerce Dr. • Suite 5 • Holt, Ml 48842 • (5171694-7800
REGION I
REGION VI
237 E. Cloverland Dr.
Ironwood, MI 49938
906-932-4579
315 Clay St., Suite 202
Muskegon, MI 49440
616-722-7769
REGION II
REGION VII
325 E. Lake Street
Petoskey, MI 49770
616-347-9330
300 S. Washington Ave., Suite 405
Lansing, MI 48933
517-482-3338
REGION IV
REGION VIII
2274 Enterprise Dr., Suite 10
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48858
517-772-4435
124 Pearl St., Suite 306
Ypsilanti, MI 48197
313-482-0150
REGION V
REGION IX
711 N. Saginaw St.
Flint, MI 48503
313-235-7029
1651 W. Centre St.
Portage, MI 49002
616-323-0234
CAPITOL
FEDERAL
SAVINGS
BANK
MAKING DREAMS
COME TRUE FOR
ONEHUNDRED
YEARS.
Custom -built.
Introducing Lifetime Services™ Financial programs that you design.
With Michigan National's Lifetime Services, you select and
combine a variety of interest-€arning accounts to meet our low
minimum balance requirement. You will receive a checking
account free of monthly service charges, a single monthly
statement listing all your accounts, and more. For details, phone
1-800-CALL-MNB.
A~
Michigan
National
Bank
We're doing what it takes'."
Member FDIC
�UAW
Local652
Gary Watson ........... President
Charlie Hoesl . Fin. Sec.-Treasurer
Ralph Shepard . . . Vice President
Ron E. Smith . . . . . Recording Sec.
Serving Our Membership
Over 40 Years
426 Clare Street, Lansing
372-7581
I. B. E. W.
LOCAL
N 0.
6 6 5
5205 S. PENNSYLVANIA AVE.
LANSING, MI 48911
PHONE: 393-5530
BEST WISHES LANSING INDIAN CENTER POW WOW
FROM
INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF ELECTRICAL WORKERS
SERVING ALL, OR PARTS OF, THE FOLLOWING COUNTIES SINCE 1926:
Ingham, Eaton, Clinton, Livingston, Ionia, Shiawassee and Gratiot
�SHOWCASE OF FINE AMERICAN CRAFTS
CONTEMPORARY DESIGN FOR BEAUTY AND FUNCTION
IN THE OBJECTS WE USE EVERY DAY
~
205 M.A.C. AVENUE
.
EAST LANSING, Ml 4882 3
(517) 351-0825
THE
MICHIGAN
INDIAN
CHILD
WELFARE
AGENCY
JR'S PLACE
NEEDS FOSTER PARENTS!!
R & G INDIAN JEWELRY
Foster parents provide their home and
themselves for the care of an Indian
child or children.
"Let us put our minds together
and see vhat kind of life
ve can make for our children."
Sittina Bull
Turquoise, Silver
101-1 /2 W . LAWRENCE AVE.
OR
207 PETERS COURT
CHARLOTTE, Ml 48813
Goldie & Roy Cole
(517) 543.3744
The Michigan Indian Child Weliare Agency (~ITCWA) is a
tribally controlled child placing agency committed to
maintaining Indian culture through providing child
veliare services through Indian people, organizations
and services.
For further information call:
.,ma
(517)393-3256 - Lansin
Ceut/ult ~cm £llltWelt
• . WE'RE #1 AND BUILDING FOR YOU!
TOM BURNS
ASSISTANT MANAGER
407 N. CLINTON AVE.
ST. JOHNS, Ml 48879
(517) 224-2358
FAX (517) 224-1126
For a fast answer on your
loan request, call
Loan By Phone
334-LOAN
0 FIRSf°FAMUIO\~ank
Member FDIC
@
�TOOLAN
DELICATESSEN
918 W. SAGINAW ST.
LAN SING, MICHi GAN
Groceries
Beer
Daily Lottery
Open
Wines
&
Liquors
Lotto
u nt i I 1=00a.m. Fri.,Sat.
Call
482-2981 for Lotto numbers
CAPITAL GAME SUPPLY COMPANY
Ph.(517) 589-9350
Leslie) MI. 49251
3609 Hul 1 Rd.
Suppliers of:
BINGO PRODUCTS) SUPPLIES and EQUIPMENT
CHARITY GAME TICKETS
CASINO SUPPLIES and EQUIPMENT
Manufacturers of:
CASINO EQUIPMENT
Attention: Tony D.-tore
LANSING NORTH AMERICAN INDIAN CENTER
The Michigan Indian Benefit Association is a nonprofit, 501 (C) 3,
tax exempt community based organization,
1968,
The MIBA was founded in
The goals of the MIBA are:
1,
To promote and enhance economic, social and personal
opportunities for members of the Lansing Indian community.
2.
To foster and promote an appreciation and understanding of
Native American culture to urban Indians and non-Indians in
the greater Lansing area.
The MIBA administers the Lansing North American Indian Center,
which
sponsors numerous programs and activities. They include: congregate
dining for Native American Elderly; transportation services;
community health program; information and referral; and client
advocacy.
Social and cultural activities include: community feasts;
childrens' Christmas party; bowling tournaments; Annual Pow Wow; and
craft classes.
�· AGRICULTURAL IMPLEMENT WORIERS
of AMERICA
(UAW)
LOCAL 602
2510 W. MICHIGAN AVENUE / LANSING, MICHIGAN 48917 / (517) 372-4626
PRESIDENT
ALVIN J . PRESSLEY
VICE-PRESIDENT
TED R. HARTMAN
FINANCIAL SECRETARY-TREASURER
RONALD A. DAVIS
RECORDING SECRETARY
BRENDA WIBERT
CHAIRMAN, BARGAINING COMMITTEE
LEWIS W. SCHULTZ
BEST WISHES FOR YOUR ANNUAL POW WOW FROM THE MEMBERS OF UAW LOCAL 602.
mp/meg-opeiu42aflcio
The Lansing Pow Wow Committee would like to thank the entire
community for all their help in preparing for and working at
our 1990 Lansing Pow Wow.
****************************
SPONSORS
LANSING NORTH AMERICAN INDIAN CENTER
LANSING SCHOOL DISTRICT-TITLE IV INDIAN ED. PROGRAM
a~
~
MICHIGAN COUNCIL FOR THE ARTS
GREATER LANSING ARTS COUNCIL
~_,I
***************************
FRIENDS OF THE POW WOW
Fred
&
Ginger Sharp
Lonnie Ailing
Delores Doxtator
�The B-0-C
Lansing Automotive Division
Congratulates
the Lansing Indian Center
on its 13th Annual Pow Wow
B·D·C LRns1n&
RUTDmDTIUE
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Native American Publication Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Native Americans
Indians of North America
Anthropology
Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals
Michigan
Description
An account of the resource
Selected digital surrogates of published and unpublished materials from the Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection dealing with different aspects of human culture and anthropology, with an emphasis on Native American people, events, organizations, and activities in Michigan. Includes newsletters, event programs, flyers, posters and other printed materials.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Gillis, Edward V.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American Publication Collection (RHC-14)</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-02-21
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Relation
A related resource
Gi-gikinomaage-min Project (Kutsche Office of Local History)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-14
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1958-2000
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection, RHC-14</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-14_lansing-pow-wow_1990
Title
A name given to the resource
Lansing Pow Wow, 1990
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1990
Description
An account of the resource
Lansing Pow Wow program, Lansing MI, 1990, collected by Edward Gillis included as part of his Native American publication collection.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Lansing North American Indian Center
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Subject
The topic of the resource
Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals
Indians of North America
Michigan
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/9b2b0a66654d2d0bf9f5ca997fa725ca.pdf
e3ee0031ff5d719499340581f03b2abb
PDF Text
Text
LANSING
POW WOW
Sleepy Ho1·1ow
St.ate Park
June,22~23 . 1985
..
"
.
~
..
.
.
.
.
HOST DR:U.M= ALL NATI.O NS
.
SINGERS
HEAD DAN.C ERS: GEORGE and
. SID . MARTIN
EMCEE: ARNIE PARISH
HEAI> ·VETERAN DANCER:
FRANK BUSH
GRAND ENTRY= Saturday.
2p.m. & 7p.m. Sunday, 2 p ..m.
(all participants one meal Saturday)
TRADERS FEE 1 $30.00/weekend
Indian made only)
SPONSORS:
Lansing Indian Center
Lansing School Distr'ict Indian
Educ ation
Michigan Council
for the Arts
"
BENEFIT POW WOW
Information: Linda Van Lake
(517) 487·5409
ADMISSION :
Adult-$ 2 -00
Child·$ 1.00
Senior Citizen-$1.00
Bus load-.$25.00
THERE IS A $2.00 STATE PARK ENTRY
FEE PER CA~ EACH DAY.
�!. .,..
.
,..·'
SLEE..PY HOLLOW
TATE .PARK
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Native American Publication Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Native Americans
Indians of North America
Anthropology
Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals
Michigan
Description
An account of the resource
Selected digital surrogates of published and unpublished materials from the Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection dealing with different aspects of human culture and anthropology, with an emphasis on Native American people, events, organizations, and activities in Michigan. Includes newsletters, event programs, flyers, posters and other printed materials.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Gillis, Edward V.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American Publication Collection (RHC-14)</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-02-21
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Relation
A related resource
Gi-gikinomaage-min Project (Kutsche Office of Local History)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-14
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1958-2000
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection, RHC-14</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-14_lansing-pow-wow_1985-06
Title
A name given to the resource
Lansing Pow Wow, June 1985
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1985-06
Description
An account of the resource
Lansing Pow Wow flyer, Lansing MI, June 22-23, 1985, collected by Edward Gillis included as part of his Native American publication collection.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Lansing Indian Center
Subject
The topic of the resource
Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals
Indians of North America
Michigan
Michigan -- Grand Rapids
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/4d628ad7d45490a9fbe7a7357f3ee642.pdf
f01b6d756e3af46195340c957959e8c4
PDF Text
Text
HEAD DANCERS:
Ga 11 Ass i newa i
Dennis Shananaquet
. HOST DRUM:
All Nations
DANCE CONTEST
REGISTRATION
CLOSES AT 1:00 p.m.
EMCEE:
Arnie Parish
JUNE 21 & 22 198.6
Sleepy Hollow Stat.e .Park
Admission: $ 2.00 adult $ 1.0 0 child 12&uncler. & Seniors
-1NDIAN TRADERS QN LY 11 s20.oo-1.35.o~
.
THERE rs A $2.00 STATE PARK FEE PER CAR PER DAY.
Primitive Campground, no electrlcify
INFORMATION= Lind~ Vcan Lake
<517>487-5409-
SPONSORS: LANSING INDIAN CENTER
LANSING INDIAN EDUCATION PROGRAM
MICHIGAN COUNCIL FOR THE ARTS
�JUNE 21 .& 22 1986
Sleepy Hollow State Park
··
Admission: $2.00 adult $1.00 child 12Junder & s,ntors
·INDIAN TRADERS ON LY! I s20.oo 1 35,00
Primitive Campground, no electricity
INFORMATION= Linda Van Lake
<517>487-5409
�SL~EPY
STATE
10\Sle&pf
'Olffollow
,
D..,
"'<-.
-
Lansinj
HOLLOW
P·A R K
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Native American Publication Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Native Americans
Indians of North America
Anthropology
Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals
Michigan
Description
An account of the resource
Selected digital surrogates of published and unpublished materials from the Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection dealing with different aspects of human culture and anthropology, with an emphasis on Native American people, events, organizations, and activities in Michigan. Includes newsletters, event programs, flyers, posters and other printed materials.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Gillis, Edward V.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American Publication Collection (RHC-14)</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-02-21
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Relation
A related resource
Gi-gikinomaage-min Project (Kutsche Office of Local History)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-14
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1958-2000
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection, RHC-14</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-14_lansing-pow-wow_1986-06
Title
A name given to the resource
Lansing Pow Wow, June 1986
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1986-06
Description
An account of the resource
Lansing Pow Wow flyer, Lansing MI, June 21-22, 1986, collected by Edward Gillis included as part of his Native American publication collection.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Lansing Indian Center
Subject
The topic of the resource
Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals
Indians of North America
Michigan
Michigan -- Grand Rapids
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a7c111dde142077ab0389e758f19f305.pdf
49b6721bda66e1282f454d864feafea1
PDF Text
Text
LANSING POW WOW
JUNE 20, 21, 1987
Sleepy Hollow State Park
DANCE CONTEST
Dance registration closes
at 1:30 p.m. Sat. June 20, 1987
no exceptions! No Alternate Dance Site
GRAND ENTRY
TRADERS FEE
SATURDAY 2 p.m. and 7 p.m.
20.00 a day 35.00 for weekend
(primative camp site
no electricity)
INDIAN TRADERS ONLY!!!
Sunday
2 p.m.
PARTICIPANT MEAL
ADMISSION
SATURDAY June 20, 1987
$2.00 per Adult (12 and over)
$1.00 per Child and Senior Citizen
$2.00 per car State Park entry fee
at 5:00 p.m.
INFORMATION
LINDA VANLAKE
(517) 487-5409
SPONSORS
LANSING INDIAN CENTER
LANSING INDIAN EDUCATION . PROGRAM
ARTS COUNCIL CENTER OF LANSING, INC.
MICHIGAN COUNCIL FOR THE ARTS
��
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Native American Publication Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Native Americans
Indians of North America
Anthropology
Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals
Michigan
Description
An account of the resource
Selected digital surrogates of published and unpublished materials from the Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection dealing with different aspects of human culture and anthropology, with an emphasis on Native American people, events, organizations, and activities in Michigan. Includes newsletters, event programs, flyers, posters and other printed materials.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Gillis, Edward V.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American Publication Collection (RHC-14)</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-02-21
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Relation
A related resource
Gi-gikinomaage-min Project (Kutsche Office of Local History)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-14
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1958-2000
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection, RHC-14</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-14_lansing-pow-wow_1987-06
Title
A name given to the resource
Lansing Pow Wow, June 1987
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1987-06
Description
An account of the resource
Lansing Pow Wow flyer, Lansing MI, June 20-21, 1987, collected by Edward Gillis included as part of his Native American publication collection.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Lansing Indian Center
Subject
The topic of the resource
Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals
Indians of North America
Michigan
Michigan -- Grand Rapids
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bff5a012f82a705f5e0252d3db34fa44.pdf
bb4b4a7be2c40d58fb53904d121dbcf7
PDF Text
Text
LANSING POW WOW
JUNE 18, 19, 1988
, Sleepy Hollow State Park
.
dl.. 'I :,
~
·..
DANCE CONTEST
Dance registration closes
at 1:30 p,m, Sat. June 18,1988
No Excegtions! No Alternate
Dance S1te
.
ADMISSION
2.00 per Adult (12 and over)
1.00 per Child and Senior Citizen
2.00 per Car State Park entry fee
GRAND ENTRY
Saturday 2 p,m, and 7 p,m.
Sunday 2 p,m,
TRADERS FEE
25.00 a day 40.00 for weekend
(primitive camp site NO electricity)
INDIAN TRADERS ONLY!!!
PARTICIPANT MEAL
Saturday June 18, 1988
at 5:00 p,m.
INFORMATION
Linda Van Lake
I
(517) 487-5409
SPONSORS
LANSING INDIAN CENTER
LANSING INDIAN EDUCATION PROGRAM
LANSING, MICHIGAN
�SLEEPY HOLLOW STATE
Sf.Johns
'°' .sHollow
I ee. PY
------t----------------+----?rice ~A.
'O
-.
$)..
s
:11
"'<
-
ft
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Native American Publication Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Native Americans
Indians of North America
Anthropology
Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals
Michigan
Description
An account of the resource
Selected digital surrogates of published and unpublished materials from the Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection dealing with different aspects of human culture and anthropology, with an emphasis on Native American people, events, organizations, and activities in Michigan. Includes newsletters, event programs, flyers, posters and other printed materials.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Gillis, Edward V.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American Publication Collection (RHC-14)</a>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-02-21
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Relation
A related resource
Gi-gikinomaage-min Project (Kutsche Office of Local History)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-14
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1958-2000
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/446">Edward V. Gillis Native American publication collection, RHC-14</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-14_lansing-pow-wow_1988-06
Title
A name given to the resource
Lansing Pow Wow, June 1988
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1988-06
Description
An account of the resource
Lansing Pow Wow flyer, Lansing MI, June 18-19, 1988, collected by Edward Gillis included as part of his Native American publication collection.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Lansing Indian Center
Subject
The topic of the resource
Indians of North America -- Michigan -- Periodicals
Indians of North America
Michigan
Michigan -- Grand Rapids
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c516423a9365b0a0e99730c84fdb7fb5.jpg
dbe309f57dc670e39a09d2d4318a74ac
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Robert H. Merrill photographs
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1909/1950
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-222
Description
An account of the resource
Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family.
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Merrill_FilmPacks_A_40_011
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1946-04-28
Title
A name given to the resource
Lantana house
Description
An account of the resource
Black and white photograph of Lantana house. The house is visible behind a foliage-covered fence.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/84ed4510a48744c5f745d0fb3eed752c.mp4
83b993064e97c798cf729568c16b2c0d
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e998027fa6622a68452c5a35fa4e978b.pdf
bcf3d7c6fe86ed96363281e155ea23b4
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Gordon Lantz
(35:30)
Back ground Information (00:26)
He was born in Leslie, Michigan, on April 7th 1930. (00:30)
He had 6 siblings. He was the 4th child born in the family. (00:54)
His father was a farmer when Gordon was young, however after World War II he got a job in a
factory. (1:10)
When he was age 3-7 he worked on the farm picking up corn cobs. From 1933-1937. (1:40)
His hands were wounded as result of his military service. (2:12)
At age 10 he joined the boy scouts in 1940. He ended up being a Scout Master. (2:19)
When he was 14 a military recruiter cam to see his Boy Scout troop march in 1944. (3:19)
Military experience was easy to adjust to because of what he learned in the Boy Scouts. (3:55)
There were about 14 boys in the troop who could march. They would often march in parades.
(4:27)
He attended school through 8th grade (approx 1944) then he started work. (5:00)
He ended up working on farms. He enjoyed this work. (5:20)
He enlisted in the National Guard. He had a lot of pride in this and he kept his uniform very
proper. (5:56)
The National Guard was located in Jackson, Michigan. Because it was only 16 miles away he
used his money to buy a car so he could drive to the meeting. (6:21)
In addition to marching, he also learned how to handle weapons. (7:10)
He was then drafted, and he was sent to Alabama for basic training. (8:00)
Basic training (8:00)
They were very impressed with his skill when he went into the military. He was in good shape
and he did not think that basic training was very difficult. (8:20)
He did not receive and special training aside from leadership. (9:08)
He was paid based on rank. He wanted to advance in rank because if he didn’t he wouldn’t make
the money he believed he deserved. (9:20)
After completing his Basic training he was sent to Korea. (9:50)
Service in the Korean Conflict (approx. 1950-1953) (10:00)
He was sent into Korea with his outfit as reinforcements. (10:15)
He arrived in Korea and was placed behind the front line. Here he and other new men to arrive
in country were then put through some more training in order to prepare them for the
environment. (10:33)
�
He had 3 stripes when he arrived in Korea and he had 4 after finishing his first year there.
(10:48)
This advance in rank was seen to be very quick. (11:04)
While in Korea, the men lived in tents. Leaders had nicer tents. However, the common soldier
had a worn tent that often needed to be sewed and was difficult to set up. (11:20)
He thought the weather in Korea was similar to Michigan’s climate. (11:50)
He did not write very many letters home. Every month he would write 1 letter home to his
mother. (12:05)
He never drank. (12:28)
He was raised with heavy influence in the Bible. (12:44)
While in Korea his job was to prepare men for a procedure called “Seek and Search.” This is
when several men were sent out to see if they could locate the enemy and deliver the
information back to officers. (13:24)
He had this job for about 1.5 years. (14:22)
Because he was young, often times he did not receive the respect he deserved by other high
ranking men. (14:50)
When he received money he spent it on keeping is uniform clean or sent it home to his mother.
When it got there she put it in a drawer. (15:30)
Home life after Korean conflict (16:00)
When he got out of Korea he met his wife Barbara at a basketball game. (16:50)
He attended college and graduated in less than a year from U.C.L.A. (17:50)
After he graduated in his first year, his second year he taught. (18:04)
Because Gordon had a car, Barbra asked if he could driver her home, and that’s how they met.
(19:18)
He and his wife had 2 sons, Mike and Mark. (19:29)
His son Mike is a preacher and a contractor in Oklahoma. (19:37)
When his son preached about his father saying his faith was never broken. (20:29)
Time in POW camp (20:40)
While in Korea he was captured and was kept in a POW camp. (20:53)
He accredits himself, not prayer, to getting him through the experience. (21:05)
He knew what he had to do to get out was behave. He also mingled with the guards who could
speak English. (21:12)
The guards would beat prisoners and would often torture men to interrogate them. (21:51)
When captured it was necessary to remove one’s rank. The guards however knew he was of
high rank and because of this he was often beaten. (22:15)
He and some other soldiers he was with in the camp were there for 18 days. After that they
were turned loose. (23:10)
After this experience he was sent back to his unit. He wasn’t discharged after being in the POW
camp. (23:30)
The men were told during training to act dumb if they were captured. (24:40)
�
While leaving the camp he realized that something, maybe his hip, was broken while he was in
the camp. He still has some trouble walking on it. (25:16)
On his right hand he is missing one of his fingers. The skin on his right hand was cut off and all
the fingers on his right hand are now unable to move. (26:16)
Thoughts on service (28:15)
Over all he believes that his military experience was a positive force in his life. (28:28)
He believed that his military experience helped him learn a lot, including the importance of
things such as the first aid he learned in the Boy Scouts. (28:36)
Over all he was proud to have served his country. (29:00)
After he was discharged (approx 1953) he tried to join veterans groups however they wouldn’t
take him due to the condition of his hands. (29:10)
He has resided in the Grand Rapids Home for Veterans since January of 2011. (29:30)
While there he was interviewed for 2 books. (30:00)
He doesn’t like living there but he thinks it’s the best place he’s ever been. (30:28)
In December of 2010 his mental conditions led others to encourage Gordon to move into a
home. (30:54)
He plans on bringing his cars up to the home. (31:22)
When he was 20, Mark, Gordon’s son, was killed. (33:16)
He was assaulted by 2 men over and argument. (33:48)
His son Mike stayed with him for 8 months before he was moved into a home. (34:28)
He believed that his military experience was the best things that have happened to him. (35:00)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LantzG1251V
Title
A name given to the resource
Lantz, Gordon (Interview outline and video), 2011
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Lantz, Gordon
Description
An account of the resource
Gordon Lantz was born in Leslie, Michigan, in 1930. Gordon enlisted in the Michigan National Guard as a teenager, and was later called up to serve in the Army in Korea. He talks about being in Korea as a very young sergeant, and about being captured and held prisoner by the Chinese for eighteen days before being released.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Moore, Deb (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2011-09-09
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/89ea6f04d0c0b10d963a0a0f5b1bd160.m4v
0e7ffdca13fae3bf0be5684072dac540
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3e2e54b46492edf5a95d9a95feb15a7c.pdf
a953af64355b55c895f21be56dbd158f
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans' History Project
Raymond Lantz
World War II
1 hour 15 minutes 38 seconds
(00:00:08) Early Life
-Born on September 26, 1922 in Washington, Illinois
-Father managed a farm there
-Didn't live there very long
-Lived in Constantine, Michigan and Elkhart, Indiana growing up
-Went to high school in Three Rivers, Michigan
-Did not complete high school
-Dropped out in junior year
-Father worked as a barber during the Great Depression
-Father worked on commission
-Charged 25¢/haircut and got 15¢ from that
-Had to support five children with that money
-Left high school when he was sixteen, or seventeen
-Went to work
-Worked on farms and then at a door manufacturer
-Paid $30 a month at the farms, but also got three meals a day and a bed
(00:03:48) Start of the War & Getting Drafted
-Working in Grand Rapids, Michigan and was on his way home to Constantine, Michigan
-Driving in the car and heard the report on Pearl Harbor on the radio
-Knew about the fighting in Europe and Asia and that Hitler was basically conquering
Europe
-Working for a sheet metal company when he received his draft notice in November 1942
-Reported for his physical exam, and after getting accepted was given 14 days of leave
(00:06:20) Basic Training & Cook School
-First stop was Camp Grant, Illinois for processing
-Sent there by train
-Sent to Camp Beale, California for basic training
-Took a week to get there by train
-During the war they sold tickets, but it didn't mean you would have a seat
-Had to stop and let other trains go by that were carrying raw materials
-Camp Beale was thirty miles north of Sacramento
-First part of basic training consisted of exercises, marches, and getting fit
-Did a 32 mile march in eight hours carrying a 46 pound pack
-He was part of B Company, 83rd Medical Battalion, 13th Armored Division
-His duty in that unit was as a cook
-Had volunteered for KP (Kitchen Patrol) duty to keep from marching
-Sent to Cook School
-Trained for 16 hours a day
-Eight hours of classroom work, and eight hours of kitchen work
�-Had to learn how to cook, about nutrition, and how much food to prepare
-Had to work around boundaries set by rationing
-Government put together a 30 day menu
-Food supplies largely depended on their location
-Remembers cooking a lot of sheep once
-The rations they got were nutritious, if anything
-Had a good variety of vitamins and minerals
(00:14:12) Stationed at Camp Beale, California
-Stationed at Camp Beale for one year
-Could get passes to go off the base
-He visited St. Mary's, California
-Small town near the base
-He was married at the time
-Wife wrote him every day and he wrote back when he could
-Wife stayed with his parents and her parents
-Wife helped the war effort by working on a farm
-After basic training he received 14 days of leave to go home
-Seven days of visiting and seven days of travel
-Remembers one cook being 42 years old, but the majority of the men were young
draftees
-Went on maneuvres with the unit
-Their job was to cook on a mess truck
-Had gasoline stoves
-Had to get up an hour early to pump air into the stoves
-Stayed over night in pup tents
-Also had to dig foxholes
-Cooks received rifle training just like infantrymen
-Trained with the M1 Garand and later received the M1 Carbine
-Oldest daughter was born while he was at Camp Beale
-Got to see her when she was only three weeks old
-Wife and daughter came out to visit him
-They lived off base for a few weeks then returned to Michigan
-Had a Class A pass
-Meant he could leave whenever he wasn't on duty
-Worked from 3AM - 10PM
(00:22:11) Stationed at Camp Bowie, Texas
-Sent to Camp Bowie, Texas after one year at Camp Beale
-Reassigned to the 54th Evacuation Hospital
-Working as a cook for that unit
-Did not go to Camp Bowie alone
-All of the cooks got the flu when they went to Camp Bowie
-He and the mess sergeant were the only healthy ones
-Mess sergeant burned himself trying to light a stove
-Raymond managed to prepare, cook, and serve breakfast on his own
-Then he came down with the flu and had to report to the sick bay
-Camp Bowie was close to Fort Worth, Texas
�-Only about 50 or 60 miles away from Fort Worth
-Able to visit Fort Worth
-Stayed at Camp Bowie until they went overseas
-Stayed there for nearly one year
-Lived off the base in Texas
-Had the rank of Technician 4th Grade (T4)
(00:28:54) Following News of the War & Contact with Family
-Main source of news was the Stars & Stripes
-Didn't have good radio reception
-All of his brothers were in the service along with one brother-in-law
-A sister-in-law was in the Women's Army Corps (WACs)
-Kept in touch with each other while in the service
-Father wrote him a postcard every day
-Father wrote each of his sons a postcard every day
(00:31:44) Deployment to Hawaii
-Knew that eventually he would get deployed
-Left Camp Bowie in late 1944
-Went to Seattle, Washington to ship out
-Deployed with the 54th Evacuation Hospital
-Destination was Hawaii
-Got there by ship
-As a cook, he had to work on the ship
-Did the best that he could with what he had available
-Tried to give the soldiers what they wanted
-A lot of men got seasick on the trip to Hawaii
-Combination of bad weather and men not having sea-faring experience
-Took a couple weeks to reach Hawaii
-Sailed with three other ships
-Zig-zagged to avoid getting torpedoed
(00:35:44) Stationed in Schofield Barracks, Hawaii
-Stationed in Schofield Barracks in Oahu, Hawaii
-A more permanent base than Camp Bowie, or Camp Beale
-Had an actual kitchen to work in
-Met up with his brother in Honolulu
-Had a pass for four, or five, days
-If you could see your relatives you were given extra leave time
-Had figured out that his brother was coming to Hawaii
-Did this by piecing together information from censored mail
-Went to Pearl Harbor almost every day for a month waiting for his
brother's ship
-Soldiers' wives would come to the mess hall to eat sometimes
-Had one tablecloth specifically saved for the wives' table
-He didn't provide food for the entire 54th Evacuation Hospital
-Provided food for his own company, not feeding the doctors
-Cooked for officers on a rotating schedule
(00:42:56) End of the War & Deployment to Japan
�-Left Schofield Barracks in 1945
-Stayed in Hawaii during the invasion of Iwo Jima and Okinawa
-Read about the invasions in the Stars & Stripes
-Crossing the Pacific Ocean when the atomic bombs were dropped
-Sailing toward the staging area for the invasion of Japan
-Sailing on board a Landing Ship, Tank (LST)
-Cooked while on the LST
-Ran into a bad storm en route to Japan
-The swells were so high that they blocked out the ship behind them
-One man was so sick that he couldn't move and just laid in a pool of
vomit
-Raymond tried to help by giving the man soda crackers and water
-Man had to be dropped off en route otherwise he would have died
-Raymond didn't get seasick
-Got close to being seasick, but didn't throw up
-After Japan surrendered they sailed up to Japan on September 4, 1945
-Only two days after September 2, 1945, the date of the formal surrender of Japan
(00:50:13) Occupation Duty in Japan Pt. 1
-Disembarked in Tokyo Bay
-Took over a barn and turned it into a kitchen
-Used lye water to clean the building
-Set up stoves
-Lived on K Rations for a couple days while the stove got set up
-Used gasoline for the stoves
-There wasn't much left in Japan
-Remembers Japan had been flattened by bombing
-Every major road intersection was bombed out
-Entire country was in bad shape
-Saw Japanese civilians
-Felt sorry for them
-Understood that the people couldn't be blamed for the attack on Pearl
Harbor
-Had Japanese civilians working in his kitchen
-One Japanese boy named Jimmy served as his interpretor
-Had lived in San Francisco before the U.S. entered the war
-Jimmy's family returned to Japan in 1941 shortly after Pearl Harbor
-Jimmy had received training to be a kamikaze pilot
-Japanese civilians were so hungry and desperate they collected trash to eat
-Stayed in Japan for a few months
(00:56:40) End of Service Pt. 1
-Received points during service
-Points awarded based on rank, dependents, length of service, and combat seen
-Had amassed 29 points at the end of his service
-Hawaii was considered overseas duty because Hawaii was a territory at the time
-Meant getting points for not being Stateside
-Originally needed 85 points to be discharged, then it got reduced to 50 points
�-Had to stay in Japan for an extra 30 days because the unit didn't have a replacement cook
(00:58:53) Occupation Duty in Japan Pt. 2
-Never got to see any of the Japanese cities
-Figured that it wouldn't be worthwhile since the cities were in ruin anyway
-Went for a walk and found a burned out building in the countryside
-Next to it was a large piece of sheet metal on the ground
-Covered a hole in the ground where five, or six Japanese were living
-Gave a Japanese civilian a loaf of stale bread to take home
-Some men would go off base and get into trouble
-Drinking and fraternization were the biggest problems with GIs in Japan
(01:03:15) Life after the War Pt. 1
-Owned a sheet metal company for thirty five years after the war
-Did that without graduating from high school
(01:05:46) End of Service Pt. 2 and Coming Home
-Left Japan in early 1946
-Took a ship back to the United States
-Arrived in Seattle, Washington
-Wasn't a big ship and had poor ventilation so the ship stunk
-Boarded a train in Seattle, Washington
-Worked as a cook on the train
-Had a kitchen set up in the box car
-Did that from Seattle to Chicago
-Didn't mind working on the train
-Got discharged at Camp Grant, Illinois in February 1946
-Took a train from Chicago to Grand Rapids, Michigan
(01:09:07) Life after the War Pt. 2
-Went back to work at the sheet metal company that he worked at before getting drafted
-Did that for 17 years
-Started his own sheet metal company
-His old manager came to work for him
-Installed heating ducts all over the United States
-Had 62 people working for him
-Worked on some of the buildings at Grand Valley State University and Ferris
State
(01:11:36) Reflections on Service
-Had nightmares and lashed out at his wife after the war
-It was difficult for a couple years
-Developed from being in a state of constant stress, plus ingrained combat
training
-Had a job to do and did it and just tried to take it in stride
-It was hard coming back and readjusting, but getting his job back helped with
readjusting
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_LantzR1786V
Title
A name given to the resource
Lantz, Raymond (Interview outline and video), 2015
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-23
Description
An account of the resource
Raymond Lantz was born on September 26, 1922 in Washington, Illinois. He was drafted in Grand Rapids, Michigan in November 1942 and went to Camp Grant, Illinois for processing. He was sent to Camp Beale, California for basic training, and then became a cook in B Company, 83rd Medical Battalion, 13th Armored Division. He was stationed at Camp Beale for a year, and then went to Camp Bowie, Texas where he was reassigned to the 54th Evacuation Hospital. He stayed in Texas until late 1944 when the unit was sent up to Seattle to be deployed into the Pacific Theatre. They sailed to Hawaii and he was stationed at Schofield Barracks until late summer 1945. They sailed up to Japan and arrived on September 4, 1945 two days after the formal surrender of the Japanese. He was part of the occupation force in Japan for a few months working as a cook. He returned to the United States in early 1946 and got discharged at Camp Grant, Illinois in February 1946.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Lantz, Raymond
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Moving Image
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/">In Copyright</a>
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/x-m4v
application/pdf
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c8b4ee45089ee0fd932ce8039f7c4eda.pdf
d3622a115befe57327166e75abb82d90
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Gregg Larabel
Interview Length: (1:23:32)
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chloe Dingens
Interviewer: We're talking today with Greg Larabel of Grand Rapids, Michigan and the
interviewer is James Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veteran’s History
Project. Okay Gregg begin with some background on yourself and to begin with where and
when were you born?
I was born in Grand Rapids, St. Mary’s November 2nd, 1944.
Interviewer: Okay now did you grow up in Grand Rapids or did you move around?
Yes, I grew up, went to St. Francis Grade School, Catholic Central High School and- and then
into the Air Force.
(1:04)
Interviewer: Okay and what was your family doing for a living when you were a kid?
My- my dad was the yardmaster of C&O Railroad and my mom worked various part-time jobs,
but she was mostly a stay-at-home, raising six kids.
Interviewer: Okay and had your dad been in the service or was he a little older or?
Yeah, he was in World War II, Army Air Corps. Never went overseas but was stationed in
Pennsylvania, Indiantown Gap and it was a war- prisoner of war camp.
Interviewer: Okay and did he ever talk about any of the experiences there?
No but he did write a journal and he's got, I have a journal of his that he wrote for one year when
he went in and while he was at Indiantown Gap so it was pretty interesting.
Interviewer: Okay alright so basically when you, after you graduated high school you
joined the Air Force?
�Yes sir.
(2:06)
Interviewer: Okay and what led to that decision?
Well my dad was a- a amateur radio operator and fixed radios and TVs for everybody in the
neighborhood and everybody in his circle of friends and I always was interested in- in electronics
so I thought I would go into the Air Force and- and learn electronics, and fortunately… you
never know what you're gonna do when you go in the Air Force but I scored high in- in
electronic aptitude and I was put into autopilot systems.
Interviewer: Okay so when do you actually join the Air Force?
October of, October 10th, 1962.
Interviewer: Okay and once you sign up now what happens to you?
Then I go to Detroit and take my physical and from there we go to Lackland Air Force Base.
(3:06)
Interviewer: Okay now was the physical a fairly serious one or a fairly cursory one?
No, seemed cursory there was a lot of guys that rejected for flat feet, asthma, and so on, but it
was kind of a routine. I was in pretty good shape from running cross-country.
Interviewer: Okay because it- it was probably a different atmosphere in 1962 than it would
have been in ‘66 or ‘68 with Vietnam going on.
Right.
Interviewer: At this point people who were there probably most of them wanted to be
there.
Right, that's correct it was pretty much volunteer.
�Interviewer: Yeah alright so where is Lackland?
Lackland is in San Antonio, Texas.
Interviewer: Okay and how did they get you down there?
We went by train, let's see what did we go by? Train and went, yeah, all the way.
(4:02)
Interviewer: And what do you remember about that train?
My- my first train ride.
Interviewer: Okay.
My dad worked for the C&O Railroad for years and years and I had never been on a train other
than on an engine looking at it, but I’d never been on a train ride and…
Interviewer: Okay.
So, it was my first experience.
Interviewer: Okay how long did it take to get down there?
A couple days at least, I don't remember a whole lot about it, but it took a couple days.
Interviewer: Okay so you get down to Lackland and then what happens once you arrive?
Then they start yelling at you and you go through the routines and you go through getting your
uniforms and getting yelled at again and then going doing a lot of paperwork and a lot of yelling
and finally you get to your- your dormitories and meet your technical drill sergeants and start
going through the procedures.
Interviewer: Okay so what did Air Force basic training consist of when you were there?
(5:06)
It was, I- I look back at it, it was pretty easy. It was eight weeks we had our obstacle course
which I can remember going through the obstacle course and going ahead of my flight and into
�the next flight and when I got through I kind of got my butt chewed for going too fast. I had ran
cross-country in high school and so it was pretty easy jumping over obstacles and going into the
water and I just enjoyed doing it but yeah I was doing it too enthusiastically.
Interviewer: Alright and how much emphasis do they put on discipline and following
orders?
(6:00)
Well that's where they- they break you down, they, you want to become a team member as
opposed to an individual and so it's a daily routine of shining your shoes, shining the floor,
making sure your bed is, can bounce a dime off of it. All of these insignificant things are all part
of a discipline team building and putting you into a- a group of men that are all doing the same
thing for now and that's I think that's what one of the most important things about basic training.
Interviewer: Okay now did you understand that at the time or figure that out later?
Not really you- you wonder, you know I looked back now and I- I understand why and just like
going to college it's a discipline and that's the- that's the key the discipline.
(7:06)
Interviewer: So, for us it's just do the reading, well in your case it’s make the bed, right.
Okay how long did basic training last?
It was eight-week course and it was a lot of in-class study, learning about the flag, learning about
the history of the Air Force, learning how to salute, how to march, it's… going through the gas
chamber, and shooting the M16 and that time we shot the M1 rifle.
Interviewer: Okay.
The M16 hadn't come out yet.
�Interviewer: Yeah, I mean the standard rifle for the army actually in ‘62 was gonna be still
the M14 which is improve… but you had the original World War II vintage M1s?
Right to start with, yeah.
Interviewer: Okay now what was the gas chamber for?
(8:02)
I- I really don't know it again that's probably the discipline cause you would go in there, they
would turn the- the gas on and you would just stand there, it was tear gas and they would wait for
you to beg to get out of there and everybody would be crying and yelling and screaming, and
finally when they- they know when you've had enough and you'd run out of there and you'd be
eyes would be dry, crying, and…
Interviewer: Okay because sometimes when people talk about this in other branches of
service, I mean there's a gas mask they get to put on at some point.
Right.
Interviewer: Did you have that or?
We- we did at the very last minute they get the gas masks put on, but it was still traumatic you
know.
Interviewer: Yeah.
But it was part of that discipline.
Interviewer: Okay now had you already selected what your training was your- your
specific training was going to be, or did they determine that once you were there?
(9:08)
They determined that's one of the classes that you go through and interviews and so on. I- I had
to assume that I was going into electronics because I scored real high in that and so I, at the end
�of basic training they tell you where you're gonna be going and mine was Amarillo, Texas for
automatic pilot school.
Interviewer: Okay and how long would you stay at Amarillo?
I went through Amarillo it was basically a- a twenty-eight-week course.
Interviewer: Okay.
And I got halfway through it and there was a- a glitch in the paperwork somewhere so I ended up
in another class and I finished that up, so I was there probably thirty-two weeks and finally got
through it.
(10:13)
Interviewer: Okay what did the training there consist of?
Again it was, the dormitories, the routine, keeping your dorm clean, spit-shining your shoes,
inspection of your uniforms, but then during class time you would go to school in the morning
and they would teach you elect- basic electronics and then they would go into your primary
automatic pilots and, but it was sort of like basic training with the regimentation going to the KP
in the- in the cafeteria and then we had more free time in base- in technical school on the
weekends as opposed to basic training.
(11:11)
Interviewer: Okay so what were the living conditions like there?
World War II dorms a lot of the- the wall board was unpainted but the- the dorms were spotless
because we kept them that way and no air conditioning but it was you know down in Amarillo,
Texas it- it gets kind of hot and it gets cold and hot and so we had our blankets and so on, but it
was- it was fairly good compared to what I hear of the Army.
�Interviewer: That would depend on where you were with- with the Army but that's you
know did you at least have stoves or heaters of some kind in the barracks?
(12:00)
Yeah it- it had furnaces.
Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah.
Interviewer: And were you beyond the level of using coal, or were you?
Oh yes.
Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah it was- it was heated but it was cold.
Interviewer: Yeah and probably not very well insulated or anything else.
Right, right.
Interviewer: Okay and so what were you actually learning to do? They're training you
something with auto pilots?
Yeah you're first learned electronics and then you learned all about airplanes, the wings and the
fuselage, and so on, and then the- the autopilot system the pilot flips a switch and it'll fly by itself
until it gets to a- an airport and then it'll, pilot lands it but it pretty much took care of the airplane
in flight.
Interviewer: So you're learning basically how it works and how to maintain it?
(13:02)
Yeah, changing servos that would put the ailerons and the elevators
in certain positions and at that time we were still using tubes if I can remember it correctly and
solid state had come at a- another time but we learned G limits- monitors that the aircraft would
�fly in a particular attitude and if it went, took too many G's it would flip off the autopilot system
and- and things like that that we would learn.
Interviewer: Okay now did you have, did you work with actual aircraft or just with the
parts?
(13:56)
In the, in Amarillo we just learned the parts and the mach- the equipment we didn't go into the
actual aircraft until we went to our next base.
Interviewer: Okay now at least un- until the last few weeks were you pretty much with the
same group the whole way through?
Yeah you were with a- a class and- and then you were assigned to a dormitory and a squadron, a
flight and we stayed pretty much as a team.
Interviewer: Okay now when you went off the base what did you do?
Down in- down in Amarillo I had a- a chance to go out with my lieutenant, executive officer we
went out to some of the ranches and we would explore Indian Ruins and it was pretty interesting
and I'd never done that before out in the deserts and out in the pastures out there on the ranches,
we'd look for a circle of rocks, an old circle and it would, you’d sift through there and you'd
contain arrowheads, it was pretty interesting.
(15:23)
Interviewer: Okay now was it normal for officers and enlisted to hang out together off
base?
No, no that was forbidden.
Interviewer: Okay.
�I think this relationship there was pretty much professional and it's something that was done, I- I
don't know how we ended up starting it but we both had the interest in arc- archaeology and so
on and so that started that.
(16:00)
Interviewer: Alright now if you think back over the time in Amarillo are there any
particular events or experiences or broader impressions that kind of stay with you?
No, other than I remember the- the, our drill sergeants would say, “you're welcome to go AWOL
in Amarillo if you want, because we could see walking in Amarillo for four days and you'd still
be seen because it's so flat,” and that was a- a big joke that you could go AWOL in…
Interviewer: Okay was there much to do in the town? Was there much of a town there?
Well at the time there was some parks and we went out on, in some, there were some rivers that
we'd go to and just have a little fun at, but it was mostly everything on base.
(17:00)
Interviewer: Did they have bars?
I don't recall because I wasn't old enough.
Interviewer: Okay.
And they do on all- all of our bases we have Airman's Clubs…
Interviewer: Right.
NCO Clubs, and Officers’ Clubs.
Interviewer: Okay so the drinking age there was 21 at that point or?
Yeah, yeah and I wasn't much of a drinker to start with.
Interviewer: Yeah, you’re a good boy from West Michigan.
Yeah.
�Interviewer: So of course not.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah okay alright so you're there… okay so that's like close to eight months I
guess, alright and then where do you go once you finish that course?
Well I got my orders and all of us as a- a team members we don't necessarily travel to the next
base, we all go out as individuals and I think there was probably four of us that went to Luke Air
Force Base in Phoenix, Arizona.
Interviewer: Alright.
And that's where we learned our auto pilot skills.
(18:02)
Interviewer: Okay, working with actual aircraft now?
Actual aircraft, we started with the F-100, that was called the lead sled and they used that
extensively in Vietnam.
Interviewer: Alright now describe that aircraft a little bit.
It was a one of the first what they call a Century Series aircraft, F-100 and had a big nose to for
the intake on the- on the jets and as far as my job I, we would lift up the hood on the- on the
aircraft and our equipment was right inside. And then some of them had two-seater aircraft and
some were single. We would go in, have to lift the canopy up and go in and set in the- in the
canopy or in the cockpit there and play with our instruments with the- the ones that we were in
charge of and that was interesting setting on an ejection seat with the power on and that was
another thing that we learned
about in school, there's a separate class in that so you always want to be careful as to what levers
you're pulling.
�(19:30)
Interviewer: Alright now did you ever get a chance to go up in an F-100?
No I didn’t, no I the- the closest I got that we would run ‘em and the we wouldn't run ‘em but the
crew chief would run it and then we would test our- our system by running the ailerons and the
elevators and the rudders and making sure everything worked correctly, properly.
Interviewer: Alright and how long did you stay at that base?
I was there for about a year and one of the things I remember about Luke Air Force Base is
you're at, near the Mojave Desert and you'd get these sandstorms coming through. You're out on
the- out on the runway and there you can see from the distance sandstorms, so you jump in the
cockpit and you close the cockpit canopy and- and there you set until the sandstorm runs over. Itit's quite a- it was quite an experience.
(20:45)
Interviewer: Okay now how was life on this base different from life while you were
training?
That, completely different, you still had dormitory inspections probably a couple times a month,
and you had roommates, and you had a, we were in a two-man room. We were free to go around
the dorm- around the base, we had first couple months, we had to get permission to go off base
and that was kind of a liberty thing but on base you had the libraries, you had the cafeterias, the
bowling alleys, the Airman's Club, and there's plenty to do on an Air Force Base.
(21:42)
Interviewer: Okay and what kind of aircraft were you working with?
That was the F-100 only on- on the at Luke.
�Interviewer: Okay and was there a particular squadron or a wing that was based there that
you were with or were you…?
Yeah, I wanted… the Air Force is kind of different from the Army and the Marines, we were in
a, I was in an A&E squadron, armament and electronics they call it. I don't recall 314th seems to
be the… but we were just members of that squadron and we worked on the aircraft but when we
left the base, when we rotated to another base we rotated again as individuals. We- the squadron
didn't move from one to another.
(22:37)
Interviewer: So, the squadron was essentially part of sort of the staff of the base.
Part of a base, yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah so you're just in- in that ball game there.
Right, right.
Interviewer: Alright now so what year is this then that you’re…?
This would be in 1963.
Interviewer: Okay so at this point it's still pre-Vietnam although actually air assets are
already.
Yes.
Interviewer: Getting over there.
I had volunteered for Vietnam that- that year and I was single so I put in a volunteer statement
and nothing ever happened and- and then the only thing that happened to me was I got engaged
and from Luke Air Force Base I was- I was reassigned to the 33rd Tech Fighter Wing in Fort
Walton Beach, Florida, Eglin Air Force Base. During that time between Luke Air Force Base
and going to Eglin Air Force Base I got married.
�(23:41)
Interviewer: Okay.
So, I withdrew my Vietnam request.
Interviewer: Alright okay now at that point for a while there- there was a rule that- that
said that the married personnel didn't get sent overseas.
Right.
Interviewer: Or then- then later it was if you had children you didn't get sent overseas and
eventually all of those went away but I think some of that depended on when you started,
so you were early enough that…
I was early.
Interviewer: That those rules may just apply to you automatically.
Right.
Interviewer: And then be in place afterward.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay and so when- when did you go to Eglin then?
In April of ’65.
Interviewer: Okay.
We had just started a new wing that, it was an old wing brought up from World War II but 33rd
Tac Fighter Wing was the F-4c Phantom jet and that was the newest thing introduced to the Air
Force, it was brought over from the Navy. The Navy had had the F-4s and we adapted them for
the Air Force and that became, that replaced the F-100 in Vietnam and became the- the go-to
aircraft.
(25:02)
�Interviewer: Okay and so for people who don't know a lot about that kind of thing what
separates the F-4 from the F-100?
All, the F-4 was all integrated systems, transistors, and diodes, and all you- you take a box out of
the aircraft and you put in another box. Whereas in the F-100 we would take the box out of the
aircraft, go back to the shop, fix it, put it back in the aircraft. These were all, the F-4 was all
modular everything was state-of-the-art.
Interviewer: Okay and then in terms just what the aircraft could do what's the difference?
The aircraft was much faster, more maneuverable, the F-100 like they called it the Lead Sled it
had- it had some good bombing capabilities but the F-100 was able to carry more of a payload
and was much faster than new F-4.
(26:15)
Interviewer: The F-4 was- was much faster.
F-4 yeah.
Interviewer: Okay alright and as far as you were concerned as a mechanic did working on
the F-4 make the job easier? Harder? Or was there new challenges?
It was- it was much easier again it was a brand new- brand new wing and so ever, we were, we
even had to build our- our shops and everything was right from scratch. We were issued tools,
new tools and the maintenance, it was we probably worked for three or four days a week because
it was a brand new, we didn't even have all of our airplanes in. So, we were that new building up
the- the wing but working on the aircraft itself was, we learned, had to learn all about it. We went
to school because it was a brand new- brand new thing to us.
(27:29)
Interviewer: Alright and then so you had gotten engaged. So, when did you get married?
�Got married just before getting to Eglin Air Force Base.
Interviewer: Okay now at that point could you and your wife live off-base or out of
what…?
What we did is we lived, had our honeymoon right there at Eglin Air Force Base and then she
went back home.
Interviewer: Okay.
And I stayed there and- and learned the job. We didn't plan on living together until I got out of
the Air Force in a- a year from then.
Interviewer: Okay.
And at- in ‘66 when I got, before I got out, I had a choice of going with the- the wing to Oslo,
Norway for a fire power demonstration or getting out and I decided to get out of the service.
(28:31)
Interviewer: Okay.
And from that point, from Oslo then the wing went to, not the wing but the squad went to
Vietnam.
Interviewer: Okay.
So, I would have gone to Vietnam had I not gotten out of the Air Force.
Interviewer: Okay so at this point the Air Force for you that was just kind of one stage in
your life and now you were moving on.
Right.
Interviewer: Okay and so you go back to Grand Rapids so what year is that now that ‘66?
That was in ’66.
�Interviewer: Okay and once you got back to Grand Rapids what did you do?
I had the GI Bill so I was able to, I went down to Grand Rapids Junior College and then I went
over to Kendall School of Design for a semester and during all that time I was raising our first
child and going to work for Lear Siegler.
Interviewer: Okay.
(29:28)
And we're working seven days a week, 10 hours a day doing almost the same job for Lear that I
was doing in the Air Force but with Lear I was testing the equipment as opposed to actually
using it.
Interviewer: Okay and so how long does that last?
About a year, let's see I got a little over a year and March of ‘68 I got itchy feet and I wanted to
go back into the Air Force.
Interviewer: Okay.
And so, I had to get into the Air Force before my second child was born because they had the
restriction you couldn't go in with more than two children or more than one child. So I went in in
March of ‘68 I went back into the Air Force.
Interviewer: Alright now that the climate in the country has changed quite a bit in- in that
time but then you get into early ‘68 you know the Tet Offensive is- is started, and anti-war
movement is ramping up, and you have a lot of stuff kind of going on. You also have a lot
of people who are trying to avoid the draft or at least stay out of the Army or the Marines
by trying to join the Air Force or- or the Navy. Now do you have a special status because
you were, you had prior service and training?
�(30:53)
No other than I was prior service so I was able to- to keep my rank of I- I believe I was E-3
Airman First Class and so I went back in but I couldn't get into autopilot systems, and I could get
into electronics and I went into what they call inertial navigation systems, Doppler radar.
Interviewer: Okay.
And so, I had to go back to school at Keesler Air Force Base in Mississippi.
Interviewer: Now when you went down there did your wife stay in Grand Rapids or did
she come down?
She traveled with me there.
Interviewer: Okay.
And we gotta, had a trailer to start with and I can remember moving into the trailer, into this park
and we were right on a bayou and we had talked about the storms coming through, the
hurricanes, and so on. And I asked the landlord, “when was the last hurricane or the highest
water?” And he pointed up on a tree the water level and it was above all the trailers there. He
said, “that's been a while,” and so we were there like I said on the bayou and we, my daughter
walked out to the dock I can remember and there was a water snake that went right in front of her
and my wife saw that and by the next day she had packed up and went back to Michigan.
(32:36)
Interviewer: Okay.
So, I was there for a while for two or three months on my own and till I finally got a house and
we brought her back down.
Interviewer: Alright now how long were you at Keesler?
Keesler was from March of ‘68 till about to about ’70. It was, I got orders for Korea.
�Interviewer: Okay and the mean time so but was all that schooling or were you now
working on the base?
I- I was going to school for about six months and because I had prior electronics experience I
self-generated through the school and finished early and then I was selected as an instructor for
electronics and so I became an instructor there for probably a year and during that year we had
Hurricane Camille. And I can remember if you lived off base and they had a hurricane you had a
choice of going onto base because of the security and- and storm shelters and so on, or you could
stay off- off base. We elected to stay off base in our house and we were far enough off the beach
that we weren't gonna get flooded but I can remember looking out the window while Hurricane
Camille was coming through and the eye of the storm passed just to, in Gulfport just down from
us. And I could look out the window and saw all the trees going one way and then an hour or so
you could see the trees going the other way. And in the morning when we woke up, I had all- all
of us in the middle of the house, in the morning when I woke up the nails in the woodwork were
all out about a quarter of an inch from the house going back and forth and…
(34:57)
Interviewer: Now did you lose your windows or did they?
Nothing was damaged.
Interviewer: Okay.
We had limbs and so on around but I got out and I drove down to the beach and on the highway
was an ocean-going vessel sitting there and you could look down on the beach and there would
be dead cows because far out on an island there was a dairy farm and all those cows got
washed…
Interviewer: Wow.
�On to the beach. And there was, the water side of the highway was just leveled, the motels, the
bars completely leveled.
Interviewer: Okay now was this Biloxi, Mississippi?
This is in Biloxi, yeah.
Interviewer: Okay alright now when something like that happens the Military often gets
involved in clean up and support and other things like that so…
(35:53)
Right we had gotten out, the Air Force Base all the guys from the Air Force Base were assigned
to different groups and we would go out and police up the area and help in any way we could.
And probably the Air Force Base anywhere in the world, Army, Air Force, Marines there'sthey're there to help the communities and they certainly helped Biloxi.
Interviewer: Alright now are- are there other things that kind of stand out in your memory
from that time aside from the hurricane?
That, I would say pretty much no, we raised wire-haired terrier, but Biloxi was pretty much
getting family- family organized.
Interviewer: Right.
The kids were young, we were learning all about Military life, family life, and- and so on
meeting new friends.
(37:10)
Interviewer: Okay so did you just sort of socialize with other people who also had young
kids and things like that? Was there some kind of network there?
There was a camaraderie of that, we learned that when I was in Florida, we got together with
young couples because we had one child and there's, we had neighbors across the street from us
�that kind of took us in, they were older, and took us in and showed us the ropes. But meet a lot of
new friends, I wish we had Facebook back then so I could keep track of them all but, yeah.
Interviewer: Alright now you're also in- in the South in the 1960’s and you'd come down
from Grand Rapids I mean and you had a civil rights movement going and there had been
segregation and things like that, I mean to what extent were you aware of any of that kind
of stuff?
(38:11)
Such naive kids, my wife and I who, we had no idea that there was things like that going on. We
grew up at Grand Rapids in a- a pretty much all white school, we had two or three black students
in our class and didn't think anything of it. And we went down there and we saw these old shacks
along the road and we didn't see any of the white and black it was pretty much a community that
we didn't see any of that racism and so we didn't understand that that was really going on so we
were pretty much naïve kids.
(39:04)
Interviewer: Alright okay, alright now the orders for Korea, was that a surprise or were
you expecting something?
Pretty much like I said in- in, we all go into our individual place- areas and- and there was five of
us out of the school, out of the instructor school that got orders. Three of us went to Korea and
two of ‘em went to Vietnam, so I could have gone to Vietnam very easily, but my assignment
was Osan Air Base, Korea.
Interviewer: Okay alright and how did they get you out to Korea?
(39:52)
�Flew, we went from Washington, Fort Lewis Washington, Tacoma to Korea that was quite a
long- long ride you'd fly it into Alaska and then from Alaska to Korea.
Interviewer: Okay and where is Osan in Korea?
It's below the 38th parallel it's in probably the middle of South Korea, it's kind of a, there's
several air bases around there but Suwan and- and Osan were pretty close together.
Interviewer: Okay alright and now your job is essentially what you had…
My- my job is a little different this time like I said in- in Mississippi I was
working on Doppler radar, inertial navigation systems. We had I believe it was three or four CT
29s and they were used strictly to monitor the DMZ zone, so when they flew we didn't work, we
worked when they were- when they landed and if there was anything wrong we would go fix thethe Doppler radar.
(41:26)
Interviewer: Okay.
But if there's nothing wrong we didn't work and so we spent a lot of downtime in Korea not
working and…
Interviewer: Alright now the aircraft itself was- was that propeller-driven or a jet?
Yep, it was propeller- driven it was a C-47.
Interviewer: Okay.
I believe C… CT 29s, it was a above the C-1, C-23s. This was a four-engine turboprop and
camouflage paint and strictly used for recon on the DMZ.
Interviewer: Okay so it had radar systems, so basically it would fly over and try to monitor
any kind of activity there?
Had- had cameras, big cameras and it’d take pictures of the DMZ.
�(42:24)
Interviewer: Alright now at that point in- in time I mean was there much tension there
along the border? Where their incidents are things that happened in that period?
Daily, they would rake the beach every day and you would walk down the street and every
intersection had a anti- aircraft in- encampment there. They took it very serious, you didn't,
Koreans themselves wouldn't- wouldn't walk down the street without carrying an ID card. The
ID card was their freedom and that they took the North and South very serious.
Interviewer: So, they were always concerned about infiltrators or anything else like that.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Now you said, “rake the beach,” where you near…
Yeah near the… I think it's a Yellow Sea, China's…
Interviewer: Was it on the western side, south of Seoul? Or where you on the other side?
No we were south of Seoul.
(43:34)
Interviewer: Yeah.
But when, on the beach they would rake it so they could tell whether somebody landed or swam
or however and they could tell whether somebody was on the beach infiltrated, so.
Interviewer: Alright and now did you have Korean military personnel working with you at
all?
No, we had, this was all Air Force.
Interviewer: Okay.
Back at Luke Air Force Base we had civilians that would work with us, but this was all Air
Force.
�Interviewer: Okay but you still had contact with at least the civilian population that area…
Oh yeah, oh yeah we have papasan for our dormitories and we would have, we'd go off base and
fraternize with the locals. Our big thing was going to the orphanage, most every weekend we'd
take a Air Force vehicle and go to the orphanage and they would treat us like kings. We would
play with the kids and then they would put on a little skit for us and they would put a display of
fruit and vegetables and we'd eat, just it was very touching the orphanage.
(45:05)
Interviewer: Okay now did you bring things to them or give them support of one kind or
another?
I don't think we brought anything to them, there was, it- it was more just going there and playing
with them, watching them, them having somebody. Koreans love to have a conversation with an
American, they- they like that English, learning English conversation that was one big thing that
stood out with me.
Interviewer: Okay and did some of the single guys have Korean girlfriends and things like
that?
(45:46)
Yeah that was- that was part of a lot of- a lot of the Orientals that you see in the States nowadays
were from the Korean and Vietnamese and so on. It would be a thing, young ladies were kicked
out of their families at a young age 13, 14, 15. They had no use, these are stories that I've been
told and that I've seen, the- the boys in the family could produce, they would farm and so on but
the girls were not too much use. So they were sent off to the city, big city and Mamasan would
take ‘em in because they had no place to go, so Mamasan would have them work in their club,
tend bar, waitress, and buy ‘em clothes, feed ‘em, give ‘em a place to stay and before you know
�it the young lady is there for a year or two and she owes Mamasan several thousand dollars
because interest rate is so high and she could never pay it off. So, she's indebted, Mamasan takes
her ID card and she can't go out onto the streets and so she's pretty much an indentured slave
right there. So, a GI comes along and meets her in the bar and they start seeing each other and
before you know it, he pays off Mamasan and buys her salvation and then they move into a- a
little hooch themselves and end up getting married.
(48:00)
Interviewer: Or not probably.
Transferred to the… what’s that?
Interviewer: Probably some of them don't get married.
Oh yeah, yeah but the ones that get married are transferred to the States.
Interviewer: Right.
And it's a whole- a whole new story.
Interviewer: Sure, okay and I guess I mean of course some of them would, they would wind
up, they’re working for Mamasan they wind up in prostitution in some cases.
Oh yes.
Interviewer: Now where there also drug problems at that time?
I didn't see- I didn't, the only thing I can remember is a few of the guys would smoke marijuana,
but as far as drugs no.
Interviewer: So, heroin hasn't gotten there or anything like that?
No, no it was- it was pretty clean there was the venereal disease and so on but then AIDS wasn't
there yet.
Interviewer: Right.
�(48:54)
And but it was pretty utopia, you'd go to the, you go down to the village and you'd go to the bars,
you'd drink, have fun, go back to the dormitories, you have to be off the streets by 10 o'clock at
night. And if you weren't off the streets then you would end up in a- a hooch with a girl and that
would be your life saving until the morning when you could get back out onto the streets.
Interviewer: Right, now did you learn to eat Korean food?
Loved it, I was 185 pounds when I went to Korea and when I left, I was a hundred and forty-five.
I ate everything, I'd go out to the farmers, out to the farmland and they would be welcome you in
and you'd sit around the table and they have about ten different items, they just ate tremendously
but it was dried fish, kimchi, which was very hot and everything was irrigated with human feces
and so you have to clean it real well and I would have all kinds of diarrhea and parasites and you
name it that but I- I went out and I enjoyed it.
(50:29)
Interviewer: Okay now did you develop any resistance to that stuff after a while or?
Evidently I could go down to the village and you'd go through the market and there would be
squid, dried squid hanging, you’d pull the tentacle off and you'd eat it like rawhide, you know
like jerky. And you'd go in, I- I'd eat the octopus, I’d eat it all. I pay for it.
Interviewer: And you’re still alive.
And I'd still pay for it, yeah.
Interviewer: Alright now I take it your, while you were in Korea your family was still back
in the States.
Right that was an unaccompanied tour.
Interviewer: Alright so how long total did you spend in Korea?
�13 months.
Interviewer: Okay.
I did come home for Christmas and saw my grand- my son for first time he was talking. Boy that
really tore me up.
Interviewer: Now- now when- when you got back, I mean did he know who you were?
(51:31)
Yeah, yeah.
Interviewer: Good because he wasn't afraid of you?
Yeah, we kept in touch you know through telephone and letters and so on.
Interviewer: Okay now when you called home could you just use a regular phone line for
that or?
Yeah.
Interviewer: Was there…
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay so it wasn't like in Vietnam where you had to have a ham radio operator
in the middle or whatever.
Right, right.
Interviewer: Okay now I'm looking at your sequence, I thought one of the things that you
did before Korea was you spent some time as an Air Force recruiter?
Yeah that was your right we went from, well we went from…
Interviewer: Eglin?
Mississ- from Eglin to… how did we go?
�Interviewer: Or was it, or did you go from Mississippi to Grand Rapids?
Went from Mississippi to Korea.
Interviewer: Okay.
And then from Korea to Grand Rapids as an Air Force recruiter.
Interviewer: Okay and was that your first stint as a recruiter?
Yes, it was.
Interviewer: Okay so before we get there, other things that stand out in your memory from
time in Korea?
(52:36)
Pretty much the orphanages, the, I did fly on the CT 29 and we were able to fly along the DMZ
and the pilot and navigator and told us what he was doing and showed us everything. That was a
very interesting, but the life in Korea was pretty much on base, working, we went we- we met
some college students from Korea, and they were just interested in talking, they want- they want
in the most way to learn conversational English.
Interviewer: Right.
And so, we did that and…
Interviewer: Did you go into any of the larger cities like Seoul or any place?
(53:31)
Oh I was in Seoul with the friend of mine we- we walked, we were walking down the street in
Seoul and just enjoying, looking at different sites and so on and all of a sudden we went into this
teahouse and the lady told us, “you know you’re not supposed to be in this area,” and it was in a
trucking area, and I guess it was off-limits to either United States, U.S. people or it was off-limits
�to military and so we scurried out of there real quick, had no idea, we just walked, enjoined, and
so that was our tour in Seoul and then we, you go back and forth on a bus, a military bus.
(54:33)
Interviewer: Okay now were there ever actual- any actual incidents involving you know
North Koreans or people trying to get on your base or anything else like that?
No, it was pretty much peacetime, nothing to write home about.
Interviewer: Okay alright so you have, you finished Korea now you get to go back to
Grand Rapids and now you're working as an Air Force recruiter and now this is like early
1970s here, okay so describe what- what was that like?
Being an Air Force recruiter was one of the proudest moments, proudest times in my career. I
was, went to Lackland Air Force Base for recruiting school and then I came home, and I was
assigned to Allegan County, South Kent County, I had several about 20 schools that I would go
to each, I would make my rounds of all the schools. And the- the big thing that stands out is
some of the teachers and counselors that I had met complemented me on the fact that I would go
to the school and present myself and ask to see so-and-so student to recruit and unlike the other
Military services they would come in and they would demand this, and demand that, and I want
to see this person and that person, but mine was a low-keyed approach and I made a lot of friends
with the counselors, friends that I have today I even bowl with one that I talked- talked to about
going into the service and he ended up joining the Navy as an officer. So, these are the types of
friendships and- and things that I did as an Air Force recruiter.
(56:46)
Interviewer: Okay now did you encounter any kind of anti-war sentiment or would there
be people in some of these places who were hostile to you because you were recruiting?
�No, I- I always and this was in the- the height of Vietnam, I was always proud to walk around
with my uniform and I had never been harassed except one time I went into South Christian High
School and there was a very liberal female teacher that said something about it and her other
teacher they said, “just ignore her, she- she doesn't know what she's talking about.” But that was
the only thing that stood out because I had- I had never been harassed, never been spit on.
Interviewer: Well this was not exactly a hotbed of radicalism.
Right.
Interviewer: Especially outside of the City of Grand Rapids itself probably.
Right.
Interviewer: You would not encounter a lot of that too much, alright now what kinds of
things motivated people to join the Air Force at that point?
(57:49)
Jobs and schooling, the when I was there that my first tour, women were being accepted into the
Military to do non- non female roles. I had put in the first jet engine aircraft mechanic that was a
female. Beautiful little girl from Wyoming- Wyoming High School and she- she was a model, I
mean she was just gorgeous and I says, “you want to go in a jet engine?” “Yeah I want to do
something that is, that women don't do,” so she did go into the Air Force and she did go in to jet
engine mechanics and after about three years she says, “I'm tired of being one of the guys and
getting grease under my fingers,” and so the Air Force offered her any job, she was qualified for
everything she- she scored high and she decided that no I'm gonna get out. And so, they offered
you know one or the other, she decided to get out and to this day she had, I still see her from time
to time and she says, “I wished I had stayed in.” And that's the- the type of person I think that I
was putting in the Air Force I have a- a log scrapbook then when they come back on leave and I
�encourage them to stop in and see me. I have ‘em sign-in and take a picture and see how they're
doing. Several of my recruits have retired from the Air Force and the ones that stayed in for four
they said, “it was great time, I enjoyed it, I learned a lot but I'm not gonna do it again,” you
know.
(1:00:06)
Interviewer: Yeah at this point did you have some people who were doing this to stay away
from the draft?
Yes but most of them were I would say most of them I recruited myself. They- they didn't
necessarily come into my office to get out of the draft.
Interviewer: Okay.
But yes, some of them were motivated to- to do that but most of them were coming in to look for
a job.
Interviewer: Alright now how many people would you get in a month or did you have
quotas or?
I had quotas, we would have maybe four or five men a month and then they started putting
quotas on us for the females and I did very well, and I think I won an award for recruiter of the
month for female. They also had prior service quotas and a lot of the prior servicemen that I put
in I still see today and communicate with them today. The quotas were met without any problem,
the Army, Navy, they would always, we were in the same offices all together and would always
see if they had any- anybody that I could give ‘em and we did, a lot of the kids that didn't qualify
for us we'd send ‘em over to the Navy, and the Army, and the Marines.
(1:01:47)
�Interviewer: Yeah, I guess how tough were the rules or the expectations?
Our- our expect- expectations on qualifying mentally were strict. We would require on a Air
Force qualifying test a score of at least I believe it was 31, I'm not exactly sure but the Army and
the Marines could go down a- a couple points and so we’d send ‘em over. Physically if they
didn't pass our physical, they pretty much couldn't pass the physical for the other services either.
Interviewer: Yeah right did you have people who didn't pass the physical who’d go away,
get in better shape, and come back?
(1:02:36)
Yeah had a young lady that had to lose her weight and she lost it and she's retired, stayed in. I
just communicated with her a- a few weeks ago on Facebook and…
Interviewer: Okay now how long did that first stint in Grand Rapids last?
Four years.
Interviewer: Okay.
It was a four-year tour at the end of it I was the tester, I would travel around West Michigan up
to Traverse City and give the ASVAB Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery.
Interviewer: Right.
To schools, to the Air Force offices, to give the tests to the students.
Interviewer: Okay now do you, did they, did the Air Force just rotate you out of that
assignment or did you ask for something different?
(1:03:28)
No, it was a normal rotation and from there I was assigned to Arkansas.
Interviewer: Okay.
Little Rock, Arkansas.
�Interviewer: Alright and what were you gonna do there?
I was working on C-130s in my inertial navigation Doppler radar.
Interviewer: Okay.
And it was like a duck out of water going from recruiting back into the maintenance and that
time they went from transistors to solid-state, they hadn't gotten into what they have today yet
but.
Interviewer: So, it wasn't computerized yet?
It- it was, we were always computerized we had kind of like an analog computer as opposed to
the digital age. Looking back at- looking back at Little Rock was, it- it still old-school electronics
but the C-130 aircraft is- is still going today and it was a workhorse in Vietnam and that's whatthat's what we use.
(1:05:00)
Interviewer: Yeah so that's the big cargo plane.
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay now where some of the C-130s fitted with extra equipment because a C130 can do different things.
It can, we used it strictly for cargo.
Interviewer: Okay alright and now did you have to learn new technology or upgrades from
what you had worked with before?
Pretty much I just learned it through this squad, through the shop. I was assigned to work with a
few guys, and we learned C-130, we had a- a classroom set up for a couple weeks.
Interviewer: Now what rank were you at this point?
I was a staff sergeant, E-5.
�Interviewer: Okay so when you come in and you join this particular group you have some
seniority or…
Yeah, I was in charge, I had two or three people under me that would work.
(1:06:02)
Interviewer: Okay now did your family move with you to Little Rock?
The family was with me, took the dogs and kids and jumped in a, I think we took a U-Haul to
Little Rock and got a house. We lived on base so that was kind of nice.
Interviewer: Now was there a school on the base or did the kids go off base?
Yeah, on- on base housing and they had the school right on the base and some of the high school
kids would go off base but there was a- an elementary school on base.
Interviewer: Alright and how long were you there?
(1:06:50)
A year, about a year and a half and one of the things that I- I forgot about was I was a bowler and
I started, I've always been a bowler all my life but in 1972 when I was a recruiter I started getting
active in bowling and I was a- a junior bowling coach, my daughter was one of my students, one
of my bowlers and I became active in the Association, the Bowling Association and became a
director of the Grand Rapids Bowling Association. So, when I went to Arkansas, I was a junior
bowling coach there because all of our Air Force bases have bowling centers and entertainment
like that. As a matter of fact, a bowling center on an Air Force Base is the community center that
everybody goes to to have coffee, to eat, to socialize, and so on. And so, in Arkansas I was a
junior bowling coach and then became a member of the, their association board and this is where
I met a lot of people that I would be eventually stationed with in another base.
(1:08:34)
�Interviewer: Okay.
And so, in Arkansas we went out to the Diamond Mines in- in Arkansas, one of our things to do,
activities. And I did a- a lot of metal detecting out there besides our, we in the Air Force you
work about eight hours a day and you have Saturdays and Sundays off unless there's activities.
So that's how I sold the Air Force too as a recruiter, was it was like a job, full-time job that you're
on call 24 hours a day, seven days a week, but you only work just like at normal, normal job.
Interviewer: Okay now what brought the Arkansas assignment to an end?
(1:09:35)
From there we went to, I went to Omaha, Nebraska for a school to learn- to learn the KC-135
and we were on our way to Okinawa and so I- I learned the KC-135 that's a big Air Force tanker
and that's what I was gonna be working on in Okinawa.
Interviewer: Okay so when do you get to Okinawa?
That I went there in ‘77 and from ‘77 to ’80.
Interviewer: Okay.
And there I had my family and we were able to bring our dog and flew over with the family on a
big 747. That took quite a while.
(1:10:37)
Interviewer: Yeah.
I remember the kids laid out the 77…7…
Interviewer: 747, yeah.
…47 was empty in the back so we were able to put all the armrests out and we would sleep on
the eight seats across and that was quite a - quite an experience.
Interviewer: Okay so what base were you at in Okinawa?
�We were at Kadena Air Base and overseas they call them Air Bases as opposed to Air Force
Base.
Interviewer: Right.
In the United States and we went to- got to Kadena and we had a little house off base and met
helicopter pilot as our neighbor and became real good friends with them. And did a lot of
hanging out, again he was an officer and I was an enlisted man but that, the fraternization there
was we were neighbors, you know. And so eventually we moved on base to a brand-new house
on- on a hill and it was pretty neat, everything is made of concrete because of the sy- the
typhoons.
(1:11:59)
Interviewer: Right.
And spent three and a half years on Okinawa and kids went to American school there and we
worked KC-135s.
Interviewer: Okay so what were you doing in your regular job then?
We'd go out and we'd work on the- on the airplanes. The pilots would fly ‘em and if there was
any- anything wrong with ‘em they’d write it up and we'd go out and take care of the write-ups,
go back to the shop.
Interviewer: Were you still working mostly with radar systems or?
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay.
I'd be working with Doppler radar and…
Interviewer: And was this basically the same that you'd had on the C-130s in Arkansas?
Yes, pretty- pretty much the same.
�(1:12:55)
Interviewer: Alright and your, what was the relationship between the Americans and theand the locals in Okinawa?
Very, very good the only trouble we ever had was a- a few of the people would be against the B52s coming into land because they were nuclear capable.
Interviewer: Right.
And we had the SR-71 and there was a- a few protesters but other than that Okinawa was a small
island, about fifteen miles long and about two miles wide and we were there for three and a half
years you know just enjoying it. It was like subtropical, not as tropical as Hawaii, but this is
where all the mainland Japanese would come and honeymoon and- and visit, it was just a
wonderful place.
(1:13:59)
Interviewer: Okay alright so and of course this is all, now this is all post-Vietnam, so you
don't have anything… Cold War tensions are not really high at this point.
No Iran was one of the…
Interviewer: Yeah.
One of the problems there. Matter of fact one of our- one of our squadrons was lost in- in the
Iran when they went to rescue the hostages and all of a sudden I was involved in bowling again
and I was the island secretary treasurer of the Okinawa Bowling Association so we had an
intramural squad, a- a bowling league and one day one of the sq- one of the teams was gone and
that was the team that went to Iran to rescue the hostages and it was all top secret, we didn't
know a lot of it but you know the word gets around.
(1:15:13)
�Interviewer: Because I guess what there was that that was a sort of a failed attempt to get
in there and rescue, I think it was a heli- collision of helicopters I think, so it was a
helicopter unit or whatever that you lost.
Yes.
Interviewer: Yeah.
And so that was the- the era of when we were there.
Interviewer: Right and how old were you, were your kids by the time you left?
Let's see in ’77, ‘80 my daughter was fourteen and my son was twelve.
Interviewer: Okay.
And from there we went to recruiting duty.
Interviewer: Okay and was that back in Grand Rapids again?
(1:15:58)
Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay.
Yeah, but back in Okinawa against, my it seems like my career had a dual career with the Air
Force and bowling. On Okinawa I was the island secretary treasurer.
Interviewer: Right.
Like I had said, before but we had seven bowling centers in Okinawa, on the Marine base and
Army base and once a year I had to have to go to all of those bases and inspect the pins, the
lanes, the, that's what I did and so everything was geared around bowling. My commander and
myself, and my wife, and- and his wife, we vacationed together, we bowled together on four
different leagues, and my commander was a- a major and still are friends today. He got called on
the carpet a few times for fraternizing but it's something that we did.
�(1:17:04)
Interviewer: Yeah.
Our- our kids and their kids vacationed together on the- at the recreate- the recreation site on
Okinawa and that’s what we did.
Interviewer: Yeah, alright well I’ve always had the impression that- that the Air Force was
at least a little more casual about that than the other branches.
Yes.
Interviewer: But they’re, they still frown on it though.
Right, right it was kind of an unwritten rule, but you know as- as long as you don't get involved
with the- the military operation and insubordination and so on.
Interviewer: Right, okay now you had talked earlier about helping recruit women into
some of these different occupations so when you were in Arkansas or Okinawa were there
women in any of your teams at this point?
(1:17:57)
Oh yeah, yeah I was in charge of young lady that was in Doppler radar with me and severalseveral women were out there on the flight line pulling aircraft equipment around, and being a jet
engine mechanic, and being an aircraft mechanic, being a cop that's one thing that women
weren't allowed to do at one time, and I put several of them in as security policemen.
Interviewer: Alright now were you aware of any issues of harassment or other kinds of
problems because they were women? Or was that not on your radar?
No, again it was kind of a unique thing, new thing and I would imagine I didn't hear anything,
you always do know that some of the old-timer’s, “women aren't allowed in here” and so on but
it was never out in the open.
�Interviewer: Okay.
(1:19:04)
If somebody didn't like it, they kept it to themselves.
Interviewer: Or if it was happening it wasn't getting reported to you.
Correct.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Right.
Interviewer: Okay alright so now you're going back, now would the Grand Rapids
recruiting assignment would be the last- would that be the last thing you did or?
That's the last thing I did and unfortunately, I couldn't get into Grand Rapids I was assigned to
Kalamazoo.
Interviewer: Okay.
So for a year I was in Kalamazoo and kept fighting my way to get back to the Grand Rapids
office but I would travel from Grand Rapids to Kalamazoo every day and because I had a house
that we bought when I was a recruiter the first time and we just rented that out while I was gone.
Interviewer: Right, okay now so you do this for about four years?
Four year.
Interviewer: In Michigan again, okay and now what leads you to retire out of the Air
Force?
(1:20:01)
Well my kids were in high school and I had an option of going somewhere else I didn't know
where, but going somewhere else or retiring and I thought as long as the kids now were in high
�school they had had friends before when we were there in- in ‘72 and so I wanted to keep
stability there.
Interview: Right.
They were- they were good in every school that they went to in the Military, they adapted well
but I thought it was time that we just settle down.
Interviewer: Okay and then did you find a job, a civilian job then?
I changed my uniform on Friday and put on my suit on Monday and sold real estate.
Interviewer: Okay.
And this is where I met Bill Schraeder and my…
Interviewer: So what- what led you into- into real estate?
Bill Schraeder, I was in the- in the office and recruiting office and Bill being the Military guy
that he is he would come into the office and he would talk to me, “I'm in real estate now, you
want to get into it.” So, him and I got into, I got into real estate with him in another office and we
became friends from that point on.
Interviewer: Alright so I guess when- when you look back now over your service career
what do you think you took out of that or how did that help to shape you?
(1:21:39)
It definitely made a man out of me like they all say going into Military, make a man outta you.
The- the probably the biggest influencer and so on is bowling. I bowled a lot in the Air Force as I
had explained and after I sold real estate, I bought a bowling center, I went, I graduated from
Davenport college the same year I retired from the Air Force.
Interviewer: Okay.
�And the Air Force paid three quarters of my tuition all the way through twenty years and I finally
retired or finally…
Interviewer: Graduated.
Graduated from Davenport College and I did a- a business plan on a bowling center and not
knowing I was gonna buy one six years later when I retired, I sold real estate and then I went in
1990 bought a bowling center. And one that I grew up in and…
(1:22:48)
Interviewer: So, which- which one is that?
Paragon Bowling Center in Burton Heights.
Interviewer: Okay is that still up and running?
It's still up and running, I've remodeled it from the early retro 1945 era to present and I had it for
sixteen years, sold it in 2006 and now I just drive Uber, work for the Christmas light show, and
metal detect, I'm a ring finder.
Interviewer: Very good. Alright well the whole thing makes for pretty good story and
definitely a distinctive one so thank you very much for coming in and sharing.
I appreciate it.
�
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e9920bdcd91f789c2e0bf7264933e8c7.mp4
a5fdbe7f2dd43ba56543a8220446cc78
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LarabelG2325V
Title
A name given to the resource
Larabel, Gregg (Interview transcript and video), 2019
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Larabel, Gregg
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
WKTV (Wyoming, Mich.)
Description
An account of the resource
Gregg Larabel was born on November 2, 1944 in Grand Rapids, Michigan. After he graduated high school, Larabel joined the Air Force on October 10, 1962 due to his interest in electronics. He attended basic training in San Antonio, Texas, and was then transferred to Amarillo, Texas for a thirty-two-week Pilot School where he was taught basic electronics and flight technology. After graduating Pilot School, Larabel was transferred to Luke Air Force Base in Phoenix, Arizona, where he was assigned to the 314th Armament and Electronics Squadron and worked on military aircraft, particularly the F-100 Super Sabre. After his training at Luke Air Force Base, Larabel was reassigned to the 33rd Tech. Fighter Wing at Eglin Air Force Base in Fort Walton Beach, Florida, where he attended more schooling to help work on the more technologically advanced and easier to maintain F-4 Phantom II. In 1966, Larabel left the Air Force and returned to Grand Rapids where he married, had a child, attended Grand Rapids Junior College and then Kendall College of Art and Design before going to work for the Lear Siegler Corporation testing automotive equipment. Two years later, he went back into the service, attending schooling and working at Keesler Air Force Base in Biloxi, Mississippi. When Hurricane Camille struck Biloxi, he and his Squadron were tasked with providing relief to the devastated local population. Larabel was later transferred to Osan Air Force Base in South Korea where he worked as a mechanic on aircraft which monitored the DMZ. Back in the United States, Larabel worked as an Air Force Recruiter for schools across Kent County, Michigan, then was rotated to Little Rock, Arkansas, where he began work as a radar mechanic on AC-130 cargo planes at the rank of E5 Staff Sergeant. In Little Rock, Larabel also became the Junior Bowling Coach for the on-base Bowling Association. He was then sent to Omaha, Nebraska, for a course on the KC-135 Stratotanker before being deployed to Kadena Air Base in Okinawa from 1977 to 1980. Before retirement, Larabel transferred back to recruiting in Michigan and later went to work selling real estate and purchased a bowling center in 1990. Reflecting upon his service in the Air Force, Larabel believed it made a man out of him and joked how bowling continued to capture his attention and influence his side careers while in the service.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-08
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States—History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975—Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401.
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/83c421dec99b8fb2c7f214cf383cd4ce.jpg
216f26c066d82cea50fd0bb6cc8b8d6d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1910s-2010s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Various
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Douglas (Mich.)
Michigan, Lake
Allegan County (Mich.)
Beaches
Sand dunes
Outdoor recreation
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Saugatuck-Douglas History Center
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Text
Language
A language of the resource
English
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
DC-07_SD-Slides_Large-Boat-on-the-Water
Title
A name given to the resource
Large boat on the water
Description
An account of the resource
A picture of a large multi-passanger boat on the water. There are other boats on the water as well, and there appears to be some sort of flag poll in the center left of the image. There is some evidence of photo aging.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Allegan County (Mich.)
Boats
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Digital file collected by the Kutsche Office of History as part of the Stories of Summer Project.
Relation
A related resource
Stories of Summer (project)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e28657f0f6c18b1c7fcdb418c5cdab88.mp4
a7d3a5d6c67521292e9c9d76db52b2b2
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3f960a6d358b87263d0716cf26aa21f5.pdf
d81a884984a61e436667a3476e235249
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project
Afghanistan (2012-2013)
Joseph Larner
Total Time – (00:49:19)
Introduction – (00:00:15)
Joseph Larner was born in Lansing, Michigan on September 29th, 1976 and grew up in Bath,
Michigan; his father was a mechanic and his mother worked as a dental hygienist- Joe also has
two brothers and is the middle child (00:00:53)
Joe graduated from Bath High School in 1995 and attended and graduated Lansing Community
College as a surgical technician (00:01:36)
◦ At the age of 29 Joe decided to enlist in the National Guard in the year 2007; Joe had a full
time civilian job and “really had no reason” why he joined the National Guard and the Army
over other branches of military (00:03:05)
◦ He did his training as a combat engineer at Ft. Leonard Wood, Missouri and was gone just
under six months; he left on October 2nd 2007 for training (00:03:58)
◦ Joe recalls that his training wasn't too challenging for him and psychically it wasn't an issue
at all, but mentally it was a bit more torturous (00:06:15)
◦ He has been assigned to the 507th Engineer Battalion since he finished basic training
(00:07:13)
▪ Joe is now full time with the National Guard and admin and commanding officer of his
company (00:08:25)
▪ As soon as Joe and his company got word they were going to be deployed to
Afghanistan the training intensified; they had about a year notice of their deployment
(00:12:14)
▪ He trained in the Mojave Desert in California to train and prepare for Afghanistan; there
was a lot of human interaction and real world scenarios to train to (00:13:04)
Afghanistan (00:14:50)
Joe and his unit deployed in May of 2012 to Afghanistan; they flew from Grand Rapids Airport
to Ft. Bliss in Texas and stayed there for several weeks- much of it was administrative and
medical clearance; from there they trained for a month and a half in New Mexico (00:16:37)
From Ft. Bliss he traveled to Bangor, Maine, from there he traveled to Ireland and finally
Tajikistan (00:18:25)
◦ They were briefed in Tajikistan for a few weeks; he was told what to expect while in
Afghanistan as it was quite intense (00:18:58)
◦ From Tajikistan, Joe and his unit flew on a C130 cargo plane and describes the process as
feeling strange; they landed at Camp Leatherneck in Afghanistan (00:21:48)
▪ The heat of Afghanistan was quite extreme and was the first thing that really hit Joe
(00:22:20)
▪ Camp Leatherneck was a Forward Operating Base (FOB) and was ran by Marines when
Joe first got there but was eventually taken over by the Army; he described it as a little
mini-city in the middle of the desert (00:23:13)
▪ As a combat engineer Joe was trained to in Improvised Explosive Device (IED)
detection and worked as support for the battalion commander (00:24:18)
▪ Joe's battalion commander went on several missions with him as well as the company
�chaplain and the command sergeant major (00:26:41)
Joe and the unit did security for other companies all year long as well; they would
put a few gun trucks between the other trucks to keep everyone secure- Joe has been
in large convoys of 60-70 vehicles long but they are usually 10-12 vehicles long
(00:27:39)
On average most of Joe's convoys were about 8-12 vehicles long; most of the time
he was heading to different FOB's (00:28:27)
After a few days in Afghanistan, Joe and his crew received a battle hand off from the
unit that was there before them- the prior unit would tell them of important areas of
interest (00:30:35)
Although Joe was trained to detect IED's, he was put on a team that stuck to doing
security- he also trained the Afghan National Army on combat engineer tactics
(00:31:50)
◦ Joe's experience training Afghan soldiers concluded with him saying that they
don't have the time or the patience to take the precautions that the Americans
took with IED's (00:33:23)
◦ Sometimes they received intelligence about IED locations through Afghani
locals although they would mostly get their information from their
telecommunications headquarters (00:35:24)
◦ His experience with the local population was 50/50 as far as behavior went:
sometimes the locals would wave to them and sometimes they would throw
rocks at them, it was pretty tough to deal with (00:37:40)
▪ When Joe was at Camp Leatherneck he had pretty good contact with his
family back at home; but when he went out on missions it was quite tough to
keep in touch (00:39:18)
▪ Joe provides that near the end of their deployment, the morale was actually
good although it was quite hot for them which meant a lot of action- they
were all ready to come home (00:42:24)
Back to the United States (00:44:53)
Joe and his unit were sent back to Ft. Bliss in Texas for a few weeks; he surprised his three
children by coming home a month early (00:45:59)
Joe now works full time for the National Guard and he loves it (00:49:13)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LarnerJ1572V
Title
A name given to the resource
Larner, Joseph (Interview outline and video), 2014
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Larner, Joseph
Description
An account of the resource
Joseph Larner was born in Lansing, Michigan on September 29th, 1976. Joe decided to join the National Guard at the age of 29 in 2007. He trained as a combat engineer at Ft. Leonard Wood, Missouri. Joe was assigned to the 507th Engineer Battalion. Joe and his unit deployed to Afghanistan in May of 2012. Joe did security for convoys for most of his time in Afghanistan. He is currently serving in a full time position with the Guard.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
McGregor, Michael (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
United States. National Guard
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-03-08
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/ec6b9d24d19f28ef0bdaa08d2e1dc5d3.jpg
feaa46a9f8c44e286342615452278c8e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1910s-2010s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Various
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Douglas (Mich.)
Michigan, Lake
Allegan County (Mich.)
Beaches
Sand dunes
Outdoor recreation
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Saugatuck-Douglas History Center
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Text
Language
A language of the resource
English
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
DC-07_SD-Brigham-D_0016
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Brigham, D.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1940
Title
A name given to the resource
Larry Arnett and Joan Brigham riding a tandem bicycle
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph of cousins Larry and Joan riding a single bicycle sat side by side, circa 1940
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Allegan County (Mich.)
Bicycles
Outdoor recreation
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Digital file contributed by D. Brigham as part of the Stories of Summer project.
Relation
A related resource
Stories of Summer (project)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/13ab5577309d13ad17c48111090353cd.mp4
cf1dd5d14ff9e9cd436de10dcebd6f78
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/be1b7c808428284913b9f2468cd47557.pdf
4c7a5d523389bed639f2fa506a912ef9
PDF Text
Text
Living with PFAS
Interviewer: Dani DeVasto
Interviewee: Larry Campell
Date: June 18, 2021
DD: I’m Dani DeVasto and today, June 18th, 2021. I have the pleasure of chatting with Larry
Campbell. Hi, Larry.
LC: Hi.
DD: Larry can you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live?
LC: Well I currently- I was born and raised in Belding, Michigan, and I attended Grand Valley
State for a short period of time. While I was attending Grand Valley State University, I met my
wife, and she is from Sparta, Michigan. We eventually married and moved to Belding, Michigan.
Unfortunately, through this horrible journey that this PFAS put us through, it eventually led to
our divorce and I’m currently living in the Metro Detroit area.
DD: And how long have you been in the Metro Detroit area?
LC: It’s been over two years now.
DD: Okay. Larry, can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS in
your community?
LC: Yeah, you know. This kind of started around 1997-1998. After I met my wife, we lived in
the same apartment complex that, when I was going to Grand Valley State University I was also
in the Michigan National Guard at the time. I had come off active duty in 1996, off active duty in
the Army, and enrolled in Grand Valley State University, where I also played baseball.
After my first year at Grand Valley, I had moved to an apartment complex where I ultimately
met my future wife. She had two children, and I love kids. And we kind of, you know– We grew
closer, and I eventually met her family. One of the strange things about when I first met the
family, especially her father, [he was] very stand-offish, not very talkative. Later on, once we
had announced that we were going to have a baby together, things had begun to take a strange
turn.
Her father, my future father-in-law, and I could never have a conversation like you and I are
doing now. He was always adversarial, always coming at me sideways, and I could never
understand it. I was like, “Look, I love your daughter.” It was a very strange situation. She had
two children from previous relationships and none of the fathers were in the picture. I was
willing to take them on as well as I wanted to be there for my son, and so on and so forth. None
of that seemed to matter to him. It was– It was a bizarre relationship in fact, at one point I
became so frustrated that I said, “So, what you’re saying that you’d rather have me ride off into
the sunset?” and he was like, “Yep, yep.” It was not normal. It was not normal. At first I thought
that they were staunch catholic, and maybe because I wasn’t catholic that I thought that maybe
there was some jealousy. I was another father-figure coming into the picture, and which he felt– I
1
�don’t know why he would’ve as he’s the patriarch of the family. There wasn’t anything I had
done that would give him the idea that I wasn’t capable of raising a family and being a good
protector.
My son was born in 1999, and in the following year I was hired by the Michigan Department of
Corrections. So, gainfully employed, it seemed barely worthy enough, it was very bizarre. They
lived in Sparta, Michigan, which is in northern Kent County. Beautiful area up there, they live on
Squaw Lake area, tributary, that feeds from Squaw Lake into the Rogue River. Which, people
are following– We know that the river was contaminated quite a bit. You could go to Rockford,
Michigan and see the PFAS foaming at the dam; it’s a water wonderland up there. They lived off
the beaten path in a secluded [drive]. The father had blazed a two-trail track back into the woods
and had built a house. It’s a beautiful area. We lived there for a while as they had a small cabin
on the property as well. While his daughter was going to school at the time they said, “Hey stay
there while she’s going to school.” I was driving from Sparta to Ionia, where I worked at the
time. I just kept pluggin’ along and taking care of the family, building a relationship with their
family, but it just never seemed– Something always seemed off.
Right after my son was born in 1999, suddenly my wife had to have an emergency hysterectomy.
DD: Hmmm.
LC: It came out of the blue, we didn’t even get a second or third opinion. It was like, “Nope this
needs to be done ASAP.” And it just came out of nowhere. I was kind of–I was pretty
disappointed ‘cause I was like, “Well I guess I only get one child.” And you know, so– This was
odd. She was probably early thirties, early to mid-thirties, and suddenly she has to have an
emergency hysterectomy. If you know any women that have had hysterectomies then you know
that it throws the hormones into an imbalance and that was the beginning of all, of all her
medical problems. So, it-it was to a point where– Because my son was born in 1999 and we
weren’t married yet, it was such an odd situation that I was questioning if I wanted to marry this
woman. When you don’t really have the support of the parents, or it’s kind of an odd situation
and it didn’t make sense. You could not reason with these individuals. You could not reason
with–
Interestingly, I started building a house around 2004, started building a house, in the Belding
area where I grew up. I had purchased some property while I was in the Army and had sat on it
for a while. Once I was well established at my new job, I decided to build a home. Well, 2005 we
moved into the home. It seemed that when I got her away from that area, or her family–or you
know looking back, it was probably that area, knowing what I know now–things started to get
better. I didn’t know what it was at the time. I didn’t know if it was the influence of her parents,
that was the only thing that I could come to the conclusion of. It was, you know, the influence of
her parents, her dad was such an overbearing type of person. There were times that he would say
“If the house isn’t clean by the time I get home, there’s gonna be hell to pay.” And different
things like that. So, my wife was a very, meticulous, OCD, and kept a very clean house, and
stuff. Basically, kind of had OCD from it. But she was a very good cook, and a great mom, and
things like that. But when it came to her parents, there was just– there was, there was no
reasoning. It was very disheartening. I always felt like an outsider any time I went over there,
2
�never really had a relationship with her father. It was more or less, you didn’t talk to him. It was–
It was– It was strange to say the least.
Now we are living in Belding, and we got married in May of 2005. I never even, even at the
wedding–I got a hug from her mom–but didn’t even get a handshake or a welcome to the family
from her dad. And just, I– You know– Another, just kinda strange, type, you know– I was just
like, “Well it what it is.” And I was just accepting the fact that he was a hard worker and maybe
that is just the way he is. So, I just kept pluggin’ on and did what I did, and stuff–
Probably, not long after, 2006-2007, the wife started having a lot of kidney stones that were one
right after another. Had no idea what was going on. I’ve still yet to look up– I haven’t looked up
whether kidney stones can be any type of symptom or reaction from PFAS contamination. Now,
because her health is being affected, she was losing jobs. And it was putting financial strain on
us as well.
And then, 2007 or actually 2008, her father comes down with colon cancer. And I guess he had
known something was going on for a while and had this ‘didn't’ go to the doctor’ type thing.
Unfortunately, it was pretty progressed, and they went into the chemo, and so on and so forth, to
do what they could. But interestingly, the property they owned around Squaw Lake, the father’s
name was Charles ‘Chuck’ Cockren, but he was drilling the wells lotting off the property. So,
here he is digging the water wells, lotting off this property around Squaw Lake, and he was
drinking this raw water right out of the ground, basically testing the vein. “That’s a good vein,
not a good vein.” When we lived in the cabin that was between the dam and their property, right
on the tributary coming right off Squaw Lake, the water tasted horrible. I mean horrible is– The
only time I would drink the water is if we ran it through a Britta then would mix it with Kool-Aid
or something. It was very horrible tasting, smelled. The weird thing is that their water, at their
home, which came off the tributary and Squaw Lake, probably 300-400 yards, their water tastes
amazing.
DD: Huhh.
LC: Like, like the best water I’ve ever tasted.
So, we had lived there for a while, but her father was drilling all these water wells, lotting off this
property. Well, he suddenly comes down with cancer and we had no clue. And we’re just like,
“Oh my gosh.” And the heartbreaking thing about it was he had come down with cancer, and he
passed away two days before Christmas.
DD: Hmmm.
LC: It was heartbreaking because we had put off Christmas shopping for the kids. Kind of, you
know, making– I wasn’t able to go shopping with her, my wife, because she was visiting her
father as much as possible. By this time, hospice had come in, and I finally said, “Hey is there
anywhere we can meet at the Meijer in Rockford, just, you know, we can grab Christmas
presents quick for the kids and you can get back?” So, I met her there and after we got done, I
don’t even remember if I was home yet, but she called me, and it was like he was waiting for her
3
�to return from shopping, and then he passed away. So, two days before Christmas, that was a
pretty-pretty somber Christmas.
Still at this point had no clue, it wasn’t even on the radar. So– Wife’s health continued to get
worse and worse. She had been diagnosed with Autoimmune disorder. She developed
Fibromyalgia. Which it seems Fibromyalgia affects women more than men. It’s just this chronic
pain all the time, joints; it's horrible. And so, we were living in Ionia County at the time,
obviously in Belding, and the wife goes to a pain management clinic to try-to try to find
something to help her manage the pain that she’s going through and dealing with. They prescribe
her Opioids. And this was in, probably, oh I would say, I’m just guessing, 2012ish, 2011ish,
somewhere around in there, and that just kind of allowed her to function, I guess. It just
continued to get worse, the pain got worse– So long story short, it got to the point where she was
running out of her medication, my mom who’s got arthritis really bad, she would ask to borrow a
few just to get through until her next medication. But the Opioids were never enough. I think she
was taking six a day at one point, which is unbelievable. And her pain threshold– I think she was
functioning at a six on the pain level while on the Opioids. Which a pain level of 10 you’re
crawled up in a ball. It just continued to progress and get worse and worse. I was working in a
prison now. I was working at the Michigan Department of Corrections. I had worked third shift
for 15 years. I was raising my son, he’s kind of hopefully the next major league baseball player.
He’s been scouted and been playing baseball since he was 17. But me working third shift I was
able to raise him and coach him. But, working at a maximize security prison, it’s not a nice
environment. You know, there’s PTSD and hyper vigilance, it’s just not a good environment.
Between that and working third shift where you’re kind of always in a haze you feel like a
zombie because you’re always fighting to get enough sleep. I eventually thought that the cause of
her health issues was that I was bringing home the environment I was working in. I started trying
to find a way to get out because I knew corrections officers have a high mortality rate. Most of
them pass away within five years after retiring. I was coming up on 15 years and I sure as heck
didn’t want to do another 15. Especially, if I felt that me working there was causing a lot of the
stress and other issues for her health. I really thought it was me. I thought I was the big [issue]
with bringing my work home. Even though I wouldn’t bring it home, your still affected by it, and
that’s projected onto friends and family. I’ll admit I wasn’t a nice guy. I was grumpy all the time,
short fused. Unfortunately, it’s the environment you’re subjected to everyday. Being prior
military, I was like, hey I’m equipped to work in law enforcement, but really no one is equipped
to work in that job. Eventually I was able to get out that job, and get my real estate license, and
was actually doing both at the same time. By the grace of God, I was offered a position in real
estate and was able to finally able to leave the Michigan department of infractions. Still
continuing to deal with the health issues and the doctors had no answers. All they did was give
her more opioids and basically appeasing her. At this point this was about the time where the
opioid crisis was just beginning and building. I was becoming disheartened, because I’m the
hunter and gatherer, and protector, and now I can’t even, I have no answers when the doctors
have no answer. This was in 2017 or 2018, and my son has gone to college now, his first year at
Arizona. Went down to Arizona and played collegiate baseball for a college in Arizona. I’m very
proud of him and things like this that was kind of the downfall for the family. My son is down in
Arizona, and we kept a lot of her, my wife’s health issues [hidden]. My son, he needs to focus on
school, focus on baseball. He’s 2,000 miles away in Arizona and we had a pact or an agreement
between her and I; that we want him to focus on school and everything and that we won’t burden
4
�him with your health issues, we’ll try to figure it out. What was heartbreaking was that I had
asked my son, I said look your mom needs to hear your voice and see your voice, whether it’s a
text message or voicemail, video chat, every day. You need to lift your mom up every day, and
I’m just trying to do anything to try and stay positive to keep her positive in hopes to turn a
corner with her health, and he didn’t do that. It was kind of frustrating. In fact, when he got home
from college, I’m guessing his mom had mentioned to him or he was asking me why she looked
so you know, she lost weight. He’s yelling at me “Why didn’t you tell me that mom was sick?!”
I said “I asked you to lift your mom up every day. Whether it’s a message, somehow, someway,
some form and you never even did that.” He’s an eighteen, nineteen-year-old kid. I finally
convinced her and said this is not sustainable. I went into her room, we slept in two different
rooms because I was a third shifter. I had the room blacked out, and she had her little cocoon and
oasis that she liked to keep, and it worked out better for us in that sleeping arrangement. I walked
into her bedroom one day and she’s crying uncontrollably. She’s like “I can’t take this pain.” I
was at my wits end. I was out of answers, I was out of options. She’s already taking six opioids a
day. Borrowing from my mom. I knew that this was just not sustainable. Now, her mom lived up
by herself in Sparta. By the way, she had, by this time, she had developed heart issues. She has
what’s called A-fib, Atrial Fibrillation. She was by herself, she was retired, and basically, I said
“Listen, I want you to go stay with your mom for a while. Go see her doctor, get a second
opinion.” I felt that she’d love going to her mom’s. It’s an oasis up there it’s a beautiful area up
there, away from everybody, where she doesn’t have to worry about two messy boys. “Look I’m
mowing lawn, and fixing cars.” So, she wouldn’t have to pick up after us or anything like that.
She went to her mom’s. She went to her mom’s doctor, got a second opinion, and what I was
trying to do was, I was trying to get her mom to try and take some responsibility for her
daughter’s health. Because I couldn’t do everything, I had everything on my shoulders, with no
answers. So, she went and stayed with her mom for a week or so. Went to her doctor, got in and
she says “Hey.” She didn’t want our son to know that I had drawn a line in the sand with regard
to this not being sustainable. And kind of stepping back for minute to when she was crying
uncontrollably, she says I can’t take this pain anymore I just want to die.
DD: Mmm hmm
LC: I kind of went into rescue mood, and I says now look you’re not going to die, that would
devastate the kids. I knew just that this wasn’t sustainable. While we lived in Ionia County at the
time north of me Montcalm County, one of my good friends was the Deputy Director of the
Montcalm ambulance. And a week or two prior to her saying this to me he said, “Larry we had a
husband and wife overdose from opioids a day apart in the same house.” So, this was right in the
middle of the crisis, and I just finally had to draw a line in the sand and say this isn’t sustainable.
I had to force the issue of having her mom come into the picture and take some responsibility for
her daughter’s health. So, she stayed at her mom’s, went to her mom’s doctor and she called me
and said, “Hey will you pick me up.” She didn’t want are youngest son to know we were
struggling as a couple with this whole health issue. So, I go to [the] Grand Rapids area. Pick her
up from her mom’s doctor. Through all of this, this PFAS really, it effects men and women
differently. For women it brings their emotions down to where they’re very subdue. This
chemical subdues any outward inflection. I didn’t know this at the time, but this was just how her
mom was. I pulled up next to them. We parked driver to driver. It was close to easter, and she
says, “I say hey how’s it going?”-and she just like says- “Hey.” Not like, hey we found some
stuff out, hey we’re moving in the right direction. It was nothing, no report, just a hey. That was
5
�kind of par for the course. My wife gets out and gets in the car. I say, “Hey how are you doing?”
and she just like “Not good.” I’m like “What did they do?” She says, “They pulled me off of
opioids, cold turkey, and gave me pain patches.” They weren’t even touching her. I say, “What’s
your pain level at?” She said “12.” So, we leave and were driving home. She did say the doctor
filed a complaint with the Pain Management Clinic in Ionia County. As they were over
prescribing her opioids.
LC: So, we’re on the way home driving back from Grand Rapids. We come to M-44 where we
head into Belding, and West River Drive area. We’re driving along and talking more, and I am
just becoming more and more disheartened because there are still no answers. No clue [of]
what’s going on, why this has become so bad. In hindsight, I wish I would have known how bad,
how much pain she was actually in. Especially since she functioned at a six or an eight-pain level
on opioids, and here she was off cold turkey. To go from six to twelve like she said, doubling her
pain. I have no doubt. I wasn’t thinking. I had never dealt with any pain that severe, chronically,
all the time. Because I was out of answers, I was still, I didn’t know what to do I said, “I think it
would be best if you stayed with your mom.” Because once again I still thought I was a lot of the
cause for pain, and the environment I was working in. She loved going to her mom’s, because
like I said, it was an oasis up there. I said “Hey, I think it would be a good idea if you stayed with
your mom for a while” and all hell broke loose. Like, all hell broke loose. She thought I was
abandoning her. She thought I wanted a divorce, which was farthest form the truth. I was just
trying to save her life. I was out of answers. Certainly, going back to the Pain Management
Clinic wasn’t the answer. So, her pain and what I said. I didn’t know what to do. I shouldn’t have
probably said that I should’ve at least probably waited until we got home to sit down and have a
good face to face, what’s are next step type thing. While instead, she completely, I mean lucid is
the only word that I can think of. She just went off. Long story short we’re driving down the road
fifty-five miles per hour, and she opens the door. She says, “I just want to kill myself.” So, I hit
the brakes, like oh my god what are you doing. She jumps out of the car. She’s walking down the
middle of the road, so I’m like oh my gosh. So, I dial 911. I’m like, “Get out of the road please.”
She’s like, “I just want to die. I hope a car hits me and kills me.” I’m freaking out, I don’t even
understand what’s going on. So, I’m driving down in middle of the road to try to stop anybody
coming from behind us or to alert anyone coming toward us that she’s in the road. I roll my
window down, yell get off the road. So, she finally gets off the road and I’m calling 911. You
guys need to send somebody right now because there’s going to be a fatality. I’m on the phone
with 911 and they’re sending people this way. Now she’s off to the side of the road and I’m
driving along with her so she can’t run onto the road again. I say get in the car, just please get in
the car, and she comes up and she gets in the driver side passenger. She gets in and I don’t even
know what I’m witnessing. Her emotions are so up, gone through the roof, and now she’s just
beating on the back of the seat. I’m waiting for her to come around and hit me. I’m just like
please don’t hit me type thing. So, we’re driving along, and I’ve never seen her like this. What it
was, was just her pain was out of control. We get back in through Belding and were getting back
home.
We get to the road and slow down and she jumps out of the car again and what I was worried
about was I was like when we turned down our road, I was like crap I don’t want to let her in the
house ya know there’s knives and you know other things there that she can hurt herself with, so
now I was like trying to go slow she jumps out of the car again, she runs into the weeds- I can’t
see her cause the - the switch grass is is way above her height, so now there’s like the main road
6
�and then our road so i'm turning down our road and that’s when she jumps out, so now I’m like
im worried that shes going to run back up to the highway, so I'm like staying up by the highway,
you know making sure she doesn’t try running out running out up- up on the highway so I’m
calling 911 again and I’m like where are you guys? You know, and I said by the way you know
please send a female officer because I’m not going to have a male officer you know try to
restrain her and say that she’s fighting or- or she assaulted a male officer. I said you guys do not
understand what’s going on and, so I immediately requested a female officer and they said that
there was a female state police officer that was- farther away then then then than I wanted to
hear but, so I’m trying to figure out where she is, I don’t know where she is, so I was like maybe
she went back to the house which is just like three tenths of a mile down our road off the main
road we live on a dirt road. So I start going down the road toward my house and here she comes
out of our driveway kinda like cuts across the yard and she’s in my son's car now. So full size
chevy impala and now we're coming right at each other and I’m like oh my gosh so I'm liketrying to like get in the middle of the road but I don’t wanna cause a head on collision either and
she gets by me. And now she’s you know driving down the road so I’m like you know asking for
an ambulance, I’m asking for you know female trooper and and stuff. Well so I get on 911 again
and and they’re you know flying down the- she’s flying down the road so we get to the corner of
our Johnson road and M-44 and the ambulance passes us, I’m like hey tell the ambulance to turn
around we're right here. So she’s going back into town and, I think the police are finally starting
to converge and she pulls into a dollar general store and [brief pause] parks. and she’s got the
windows rolled up, she won’t roll the window down the ambulance parks across the street, they
can't help in any way until the scene is cleared. so they make sure they're not going to get- be put
in harm's way. At some point I picked up my neighbor, I picked him up at my house, but I don’t
remember how or when at some point. But anyway, he’s an attorney and I’m- he’s like what’s
going on? She came back from the doctor and they taken her off opioids cold turkey and, you
know I think just her pain is through the roof right now and she’s just so lucid that she is
completely out of it. So the female officer shows up and I just told them I said look don’t be
going hands on I said I don’t want her to get accused of you know resisting or fighting a officer
or something and she had taken her wedding ring off and she threw it down and somehow it
bounced right under the center of her car- of the car that she was in. At some point she had called
her mom and her mom came all the way from Sparta and picked her up and they just let her go
and didn’t really even question her and I was just- I just wanted to get her help, and you know I
told the officers I said listen she’s- you guys are well aware of the opioid crisis right now and I
said, you know she just got back and they completely have taken her off opioids cold turkey and
and so on and so forth. So, that day literally was- so that was 2018 that day was pretty much the
last time we were together kind of officially, and while it hurt to know that you know- and
everything went sideways from there. You know I was you know I had abandoned her I- you
know so on and so forth. But, I felt like I saved her life for that point. At least she had a full time
caregiver there and her mom there every day. To you know, to try and get some answers. Well so
now I kinda go into this, I’m still trying to figure out what’s going on and I’m praying, I'm like
lord you have got to show me what is killing this family, it doesn’t make sense. Well
interestingly, my neighbor who lived right behind me in Belding was a Vietnam veteran. He
would come at me sideways just like my father-in-law. I had the epiphany, wait a minute [brief
7
�pause] the Vietnam veteran that lives right behind me was suffering from agent orange, that’s a
neurotoxin, PFAS is also a neurotoxin that’s when I made the connection. That was the epiphany
that I had, and so that’s when I really started diving into- and that’s when the wolverine
worldwide started the PFAS contamination there was really starting to blow up and take off, so
then I stared entrenching myself into figuring out what was going on and I knew that had to be it,
I knew that had to be it. There was no other explanation. You got all this- you know her father
died of cancer, her mom had heart issues, her daughter has all kinds of autoimmune issues, her
brother developed lupus, and her brother acts the same way as his dad- as her dad. And so then I
went out to the dam that’s right next to their house. The same PFAS foam that is occurring in
downtown Rockford was occurring right here at the dam, I called Mark Worell the geologist
from Eagle,got them down there, they witnessed it. I contacted Gram Peesley who is a professor
from the university of Notre Dame. he used to live in Kent County and he said me these
awesome little filter caps that they developed, you just screw them on the end of a the end of a 2
liter bottle and poke a hole in it and let the water drain out. He sent me these filters. I went to the
dam, I took the filters he said in one of my samples the fluorine which is the indicator of PFAS
was like two thousand parts per trillion, it was off the charts, so I was like finally I’m putting
together. But I called- I called Varnum the law firm that is representing everybody in this PFAS
lawsuit against Wolverine Worldwide and that said well that’s not a known area. So then I
started diving into it more they just completely ignored me and so then the map that I sent you of
Algoma township be- that the map of Algoma township Scwall lake buts up right against it and if
your going to drop or, your toxic sludge you take it away from as far away from the plant as you
can, but still stay in the same township. They could have literally been backing their trucks up to
Scwall lake and dumping that PFAS stuff right into it. You know this has been going on 50’s
60’s 70’s and back in the day Scwall lake was such a excluded lake there was maybe a two track
to it people walk down to go fishing
DD: Mhm
LC: So, you know I haven’t been able to prove that, but the health affects the PFAS foam at the
dam that runs over from the tributary comes out of Scwall lake. They all witnessed that, I went
and testified at the forum for eagle and you know I told- and by the way i've tried to tell my
wife at the time were now divorced, but I tried saving our marriage I tried saving- i’m like listen
you know stop drinking the water get your blood tested, and it was like it was a joke. Oh, yea
that was it is, well how do you explain your dad’s cancer. Oh, just bad luck, you know you can’t
reason with them. Look, you have all these health issues and by the way by the grace of God
2019, she’s living with her mom, and she messages her on her way home from work saying I’m
on my way home from work do we need anything type thing and I think you know her mom
responded to her. She walks in and her mom is unresponsive on the floor, she had had a stroke.
And this is yet another you know but by the grace of God, they found her on time my son had
come home from college and helped and the paramedics arrived and got her there in time and
and she was at my son's baseball game two days later and you know by the grace of God you
know her life was saved too. So I, through all this it's just I've been trying to save lives of my
own family and try and figure out what’s going on and I finally started connecting the dots and
putting two and two together, but I still feel like I have nowhere to go.
8
�DD: Mhm
LC: People that I do reach out to they’re like well we haven’t found any proof there you know
then I bring Eagle out they see the proof then COVID hits, and nobody has resources to do a
further investigation. You know meanwhile I have completely lost the relationship with my son
you know and i'll say in all of this. This chemical is the most evil thing that anybody could be
subjected to through all of this and all of the research that I have done dealing with my family,
what I have learned is to recognize those people who have been affected by PFAS. I can literally
go through life and when I meet somebody the bells and whistles go off in my head as indicators
of, I think that person has been affected by PFAS. I met two individuals right here in the metro
Detroit area and one of them was a firefighter, this guy is probably the worst case of PFAS
exposure that I have ever seen I actually had a- I actually had an encounter with him that I
recorded and I’m trying to get that to Gram Peesley I’ve reached out to Gram and said, Gram this
is another insistence of you know PFAS exposure you know I’ve been wanting to try and get this
Infront of individuals but this person is off the charts. They have admitted to having ingested this
PFAS foam during training and it’s, I can’t explain it, it’s literally like talking to the devil. I
don’t know how else to explain it. This PFAS is such an evil cruel chemical and what it does to
the body, what it does to the mind, I coined a phrase and have no other way to explain it but its
PFAS dementia. And, my family has it, you can’t reason with them. And it breaks my heart and
and ya know and through all of this my faith has grown and there was times when I just wanted
to give up and I was like I can’t fight this battle anymore especially alone and so on and so forth.
Yeah, know I mentioned earlier, my son has been scouted by major league baseball since he was
17. Now it's 2021 and he is going to be entering major league baseball draft next month. And so,
18+ years of all the coaching and giving him my knowledge as I have played baseball my whole
life, he won’t even talk to me. And is getting one side of the story from a mother who has PFAS
dementia. And it’s breaking my heart, it's ripping my heart out. I asked his mom and all i said is,
please tell our son and reach out to me this fathers’ days and I am sure I won’t hear from him.
And, I don’t know, to be honest I don’t know why God has put me on this journey. While he has
revealed to me what has caused this, he hasn’t revealed the answer how to get the help, how toand it’s so frustrating it's heartbreaking. And you know I- don’t know. You know unfortunately
the corporate lobbying for these corporations that say that this isn’t a bad chemical and it’s not as
bad as it you know Rob Ballot has proven that it is and just like in my testimony you know I said
look Dark Waters there’s going to be a sequel to that movie and it’s going to be called dark you
know darker water right here in Kent county and so my hope is- I hope that through my story
you know which is a battle will be someone else’s survival guide because I would not wish this
journey upon my worst enemy
DD: Can you- can you tell me about any concerns that you have in particular about PFAS
contamination moving forward?
LC: So one of the big problems in Michigan is, we have allowed industry to build on waterways
and discharge their waste water in rivers, lakes, and streams out of sight out of mind. While there
is a concerted effort- and by the way 3M who created this or sells this chemical by the way has
now gone into the water filtration business. So now they're making money from filtering the very
9
�water they helped contaminate. I mean it is what it is but we’ve got to get tough on this chemical.
There is no if ands or buts about it and Michigan has made that step in the right direction, but we
need the blood testing we need- you know look this these are human lives these are you know
these are lives that are being destroyed and that has to be the focus. How can we help these
individuals. Look I would love to be, you know a part of a bigger effort to help identify you
know those that have been affected by PFAS. I have been exposed to it so much that I can
literally recognize those that have, and if you don’t believe me, hey go get a blood test and prove
me wrong. so that’s the big thing.
DD: Mhm
LC: We’ve got to get the blood test and from what I’ve heard my son’s mom who I still love her
dearly I love her with all my heart and I’m glad that I was able to save her life, but our marriage
was laid to waste because of this horrible toxin and and her health issues, but she’s finally going
to get her blood tested I guess next month and you know i'm scared to see what type of exposure
you know she has- you know been affected. And but I’ve tried to contact her brother. I just
recently reached out to his wife and him and they won’t even talk to me. It's like wait a minute I
have information that you know could help your health and find out what maybe- likely killed
you father or caused your fathers cancer. And like I said I’m dealing with this PFAS dementia
and its heart breaking it absolutely breaks my heart and [clears throat] I just I can’t express how
evil of a chemical this is. Just you know if you see the movie dark waters and the farmer you
know that farmer acts just like my father-in-law
DD: Mhm
LC: Not a happy individual RA RA RA all the time you know that was literally I literally could
plug my family member into that movie into different characters in that movie. But we’ve got to
get the blood testing we have got to stop letting companies like downplay this chemical, this is
no joke. If you watched the documentary on YouTube, the devil we knew it is, it’s the devil. It’s
the most evilest toxin and now it’s in our rain water and it's not good, it’s not good.
DD: Well, thank you so much Larry for taking the time to share your story today
LC: I appreciate it, it feels good to finally tell my story so you know I thank you for providing a
platform and you know please if there’s resources that come across that you come across, please
send them my way. But I’m in metro Detroit area now and I’m kind of out of the loop with
regard to you know Kent county area so please let me know what going on and and if there’s you
know someone that can listen to me and listen to my story and and can potentially help, You
know please send them my way because you know I’m afraid my sons affected by this too and
you know I know all the family member have. Look I’ve lived there for awhile you know I’m
certain that I have been affected too. I want to get my blood tested to you know see what type of
exposure that I have been in to but I you know thank God. One thing I want to point out too is
stress seems to be a big trigger in this PFAS exposure in men more so than women. It seems that
stress is a real trigger point in men. In women it really just tends to really subdue them. It’s
pretty heartbreaking so we’ve got to do the blood testing. Just like in the movie where they were
literally paying individuals to get their blood tested. I would be thrilled if we could do something
10
�like that, because this has got to be taken care of. Look we are in a water wonderland and like I
said in my like I said in my testimony in front of Eagle you know if these sights could be
illuminated Michigan would be lit up light a christmas tree.
DD: Mhm
LC: That's no joke, they have confirmed well over 100 PFAS contaminations sites in Michigan
so I’m certain it’s just the tip of the iceberg, but we have got to get the blood tests. Throughout
the state of Michigan there needs to be a regular blood test. If you feel like you have been
exposed to PFAS you should be able to come in and get your blood tested, no if ands or buts. If
you know if everyone wants to say how much of a pandemic covid is, PFAS is a pandemic right
in our state, and and it’s growing it’s getting worse
DD: Thank you Larry.
LC: Thank you, I appreciate your time and appreciated your efforts and please keep in touch
with me
11
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Living with PFAS Interviews
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Devasto, Danielle
Description
An account of the resource
Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024).
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2021
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Living with PFAS (project)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In copyright
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Personal narrative
PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals)
Groundwater--Pollution
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
DC-11
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
audio/mp3
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Motion Picture
Text
Sound
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PFAS0016
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Campbell, Larry
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2021-06-18
Title
A name given to the resource
Larry Campbell, 2021 (Interview video and transcript)
Description
An account of the resource
Larry Campbell lived most of his life in Belding, Michigan. In this interview, Campbell discusses the impact of PFAS on the health of his wife and family.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Personal narrative
PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals)
Groundwater--Pollution
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Living with PFAS (project)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3649dc866f590ee816a0e6e8b6311c7b.pdf
202dc9558755d9e3993551f6d6d88186
PDF Text
Text
Larry Philips interviewed by Eric Gollanek and Megan Stevens
July 21, 2018
EG: This is Eric Golloneck and Megan Stevens and I'm here today with say your nameLP: Larry Philips
EG: at the old schoolhouse in Douglas Michigan. on July 21, 2018. This oral history is being
collected as part of the Stories of Summer Project, which is supported in part by Grant from the
National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage program. Thank you for taking the
time to talk with me today. I'm interested to learn more about your family history and your
experiences this summer, in particular in the Saugatuck-Douglas area. Can you please tell me
your full name, Larry, and spell it?
LP: It's Larry Richard Phillips. L A R R Y R I C H A R D P H I L L I P S.
EG: Okay, very good. So, we'll start in the beginning you were talking about the old
schoolhouse and being a student here. Tell me bit about where you grew up.
LP: I grew up in Douglas [Laugh]
EG: Okay.
LP: We lived in Saugatuck with my dad who's in the service.
EG: Okay.
LP: In fact, I met my dad when I was five years old. when we went to pick him up on the bus
when he came back from World War II.
MS: Wow, that's an amazing story.
LP: And I went to the first grade over there and then we moved to Douglas and I was in the
second grade here.
EG: So, first grade in Saugatuck and then transferred if you will cross the river.
LP: The River here to Douglas, yeah.
EG: Very good. Tell me little bit about your parents and your family and maybe their names and
�what they did, what their background is with..
LP: My family… My wife's name is Carol. We've got three children. Alison, Kevin, and
Michelle. Alison lives in Hudsonville and the other two are located pretty local. They're out on
Old Allegan Road.
EG: Okay, so stayed close, family stayed close together.
LP: Yep, pretty close.
EG: Your parents, you mentioned your father was in the service in World War II. What was his
name?
LP: Henry Phillips was his name.
EG: Was he from Saugatuck originally?
LP: No, he was from Fennville.
EG: Okay. So, there's a family connection there in the area. What was his role in the second
World War?
LP: Just Infantry.
EG: Was he in Europe?
LP: Yes.
EG: Or the Pacific?
LP: Landed in Italy and walked to England.
EG: Okay.
MS: Wow.
[All Laugh]
LP: As the war moved, so. Right, yeah. He didn't really walk to England, because you have to
get across the water. [Laughs] There's some other transportation involved.
�EG: For sure, yeah. What were some of your of most vivid memories from childhood growing
up and Douglas?
LP: Vivid ones? [Laughs]
EG: Ones that stuck out, memories growing up. They could be here at school or could be off you
know in the neighborhood or off at the the beach or river, or…
LP: As a kid, I mean we probably use the athletic field down there for everything because we
played, I think, baseball, every day that it was a good day. Yeah, in the winter we always went
sledding to the golf course.
EG: Uh-huh.
LP: Had bicycles in the summer, would ride to Baldhead. We'd climb the face of Baldhead.
Can't do that anymore, but back then, you could.
[All Laugh]
EG: Uh-huh.
LP: And, yeah that's really just about it.
EG: Yeah, how about… You mentioned your father in Fennville. Your mother's family? Was
she also from Fennville?
LP: My mother's family was from Sweden. and they were in Minnesota, then they went to
Chicago, and then they bought a a farm up here and my mother graduated from this school.
EG: Okay.
LP: Oh. and my dad's mother graduated, which is my grandmother. She graduated from this
school too in eighth grade.
EG: What was your mother's name?
LP: Francis.
EG: And what was her maiden name?
�LP: Ekdahl.
EG: Can you spell that?
LP: E K D A H L. Wait a minute, it might be E C ? E C K D A H L. Boy, I've never been asked
us to for a long time.
EG: Yeah, that's a tough one to pull off, yeah.
LP: I was thinking about the family history pieces and thinking about those. My cousin Alice,
her last name was Eckdahl. She's married to John Bock, who was an ex-Fire Chief in Saugatuck.
EG: Okay.
MS: Oh, wow.
EG: A close web of connections in a small town right, or series of towns.
5:01
EG: So, deep roots here in the community, gets a little sense of how your family first came here.
Particular memories you had growing up here that you know you say that were good or bad parts
about being in town or growing up here?
LP: They were always really good because we had Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. We used at sea
scouts. I never belonged to the sea scouts.
EG: Okay.
LP: Yeah.
EG: Were there some particular activities that stand out from that for you?
LP: Just playing ball.
EG: Just playing ball. How about in the scouts?
LP: At that time there was a shuffleboard dollar tennis court.
�EG: Okay.
LP: The whole works. Plenty of things.
EG: Lots of activities down there. I know in some other interviews, baseball stood out as the
sport in town. In town, yeah, now when you… When you went to Fennville for high school did
you participate in any sports or clubs or anything?
LP: No, I couldn't because I had to ride the bus back. There was no way for me to get back.
When my parents picked me up because we only had one car, and my dad used that because he
was working.
EG: Oh.
LP: So, I couldn't get involved in sports. I would have played baseball if I would have been able
to get back and forth.
EG: What were the years, approximately, that you were in school that you were in school here in
Douglas?
LP: I think I started school here, it was either '46 or '47.
EG: Okay.
LP: And then I graduated from the eighth grade here. And then I graduated from high school in
1957, in Fennville.
EG: Right. Was there a particular reason that you went to high school in Fennville as opposed to
Saugatuck?
LP: At that time, Douglas with a separate identity.
EG: Right.
LP: Saugatuck had the high school. We weren't tied in with Saugatuck, so we could go to any
one wanted to. Then, some of the kids went to Saugatuck.
EG: Right.
LP: There was a bus that went to town for Fennville, so...
�EG: Got you, that was more convenient.
LP: There were about four or five of us that went to Fennville. Because of the bus, it was more
convenient, as opposed to Saugatuck, where you would just have to walk.
EG: Walk, right.
LP: Or get a ride or something.
EG: Yeah. Got you. Very interesting. Very much kind of a world.
LP: All of the roads are gravel except the road that come down through town. Okay, that used to
be Old 31.
EG: Right.
MS: How mock the gravel roads everywhere.
LP: All gravel.
EG: Growing up here in Douglas in particular were there, were there businesses and places or
institutions beyond the field there that you hung out or that were important for you or your
family?
LP: Well, the one restaurant that was the Soda Lounge, which is now Everyday People. I think
that's always been a restaurant in one shape or form.
EG: Okay, yeah.
LP: And the bakery.
EG: What was the Soda House like when you were growing up or a teenager?
LP: Well, you'd get an ice-cream cone for a nickel. [Laughs]
MS: That's awesome.
EG: That sounds like a good deal.
�LP: You might be allowed one of those every two weeks or so.
[All Laugh]
EG: Right, absolutely.
LP: But then, we go there in the morning when waiting for the bus because it always open it up
so could in where it was warm, which was kind of nice.
EG: For sure.
MS: Very nice.
LP: Bill Kruger was the name of the gentleman who owned it, and where he left I have no idea,
but he coached us to use one of our coaches for baseball.
EG: Okay.
MS: Oh, wow.
EG: Very nice. So, ice-cream there was this was a stand-out. Were there others?
LP: Then the Douglas Bakery was there.
EG: Particular things remember eating from or that you wanted to eat?
LP: I think that was one of my first jobs that I had. I think was eleven years old and sorted pop
bottles and beer bottles.
EG: Okay.
MS: Oh wow.
EG: Uh-huh. Very cool, very interesting, yeah. So, other work? So, thinking about summertime
is the focus of this. Other jobs that you had? It sounds like you worked there, and were there
other things you did during the summertime in terms of work?
LP: I had a ... I delivered papers at that time. I think it cost fifteen cents a week to have the paper
delivered.
�MS: Oh, that's a good deal.
[All Laugh]
LP: In the winter you had to walk it, but if I don't answer the number you could ride a bike.
EG: Right. So, daily? Daily delivery? Was it a daily paper?
LP: Yep, a daily paper.
10:00
EG: Some early mornings.
LP: Some early mornings, yeah. [Chuckles] Then I worked at Sickle's Market.
EG: And what kind work did you do?
LP: Stocking shelves and doing that.
EG: So, tell me a bit about after your graduation from high school what were your steps from
there? What did you do at that point?
LP: Well, I graduated in '57 and I went to work in 1957 in at Food Industries.
EG: Okay.
LP: I work. I worked there for.... jeez. Well, I was part of Lloyd J Harris Pie Company, but it
was called Food Industries.
EG: Okay. What… how did you… what was your entrance there? How did you get hired there?
LP: Stacking crates.
EG: Stacking crates?
LP: Of apples delivering crates of apples.
EG: Okay.
�LP: Well, not crates of apples, the crates. Loading trucks in.
EG: That was a year-round job or seasonal?
LP: The first year was seasonal because I got laid off in the summer EG: Okay.
LP: …but I had another guy who mowed yards. We had a good time doing that. So, we made it
through. It's not a bad place to be in the summer.
EG: No, it isn't.
LP: There's always, you can always find a job, if you want a job.
EG: And then from that point, what other work did you do there? Or, what was your…?
LP: I ended up... I was... The manager that was there was Joe Prentergass, and he was the one
that got us started with Lloyd J Harris. And, then, when I came back to work I took care of
Harris' house. Mowed the yard, cleaned the swimming pool that's one reason we don't have a
swimming pool, because I had my fill of cleaning those. [Laughs]
EG: That was enough of that, right?
LP: Yeah, it was the in summer. Usually had to fix crates or do something else while it was
down.
[Phone Rings]
LP: Oh, I think that's me. Whoops.
EG: That's okay.
LP: I have no idea what it is for. Soon as you touch it, it's gone.
MS: It's ended already.
EG: Not a problem, not a problem at all. Yeah. So other work that you had there with Harris?
Talk a little bit about that.
�LP: Well, yeah, then I started driving truck. okay. and hauling between here and Saugatuck. We
fixed apples, prepared apples for them to make into pies. And also went to... then we'd collect
blueberries in the summer, at the Locker Plant, because they owned that.
EG: So, lots of fruit on the move.
LP: Fruit on the move.
[All Laugh]
EG: Any questions that pop out to you there, Megan?
LP: Seems like it was 62 or 63 when they closed it. Three of us worked up in Shelby, Michigan,
and established another plant up there for doing all the fruit up there with Lloyd Harris. We'd
rode back and forth with him every day.
EG: Kind of… maybe thinking a little bit about Saugatuck and Douglas together, what were
some of your impressions of Saugatuck, as someone living in Douglas through your school years
high school years and beyond?
LP: Oh, we always hung out in Saugatuck.
EG: Okay, spent a lot of time there.
LP: We did. The Soda Lounge was there and that's where everybody congregated, and you had
all the records you listen to. You’d have to pay for it but I mean it was no big deal. Well, it was,
but…
EG: So this will be in the mid-fifties?
LP: Yeah. The big pavilion was there, you'd go there for movies. That's when you're kid. When
you got older it was a bar down there.
MS: That's right.
LP: Spent some time there as well. I guess.
EG: This is good. So yeah, what can you tell me a little bit about the Soda House, the Soda
Lounge? What kind of records were there? Were there…?
�LP: Oh, all 50s.
EG: Oh sure.
LP: Lots of R&B. Galveston. Yeah, a lot of Country Western was starting to be pretty popular
back then.
EG: Are there any particular records you remember or artists you remember?
LP: Not really. [Laughs] That was a long time ago. We had a good time. Had a good time. There
you go, that's right. Of course, cars, hot rod cars were the thing back then, too.
EG: Mhm. Did you have a car?
LP: I did. I did. Yeah, when I was seventeen I bought a brand-new 1958 Chevrolet Impala.
EG: Okay.
MS: Nice.
15:04
LP: Three, 348 engine, dry car, the whole works. That was certainly a car payment. You know,
$107 a month. So, you know I had to work. [Laughs]
EG: What was the terms of that loan? Was it like two years, three years? How did that work?
LP: I remember it cost me $3400, and it weighed 3400 lbs.
EG: A dollar a pound, okay.
LP: It was $107... Yeah, that's how I remember it. The payments were...$100 I think they were
$106. That's why I had to work during the summer when we were laid off.
EG: Sure.
LP: Unemployment paid $40, but I had to pay the rest.
EG: That is a significant car payment. Were there… were their fair number of people you knew
from high school that had cars?
�LP: Oh yeah.
EG: Pretty common?
LP: Yeah, pretty common. Everybody was always wanting to race, one way or another.
EG: Yeah, that is definitely one of the themes that we're really interested in with this project,
especially during the summer. The kind of shenanigans of Saugatuck and Douglas through the
1950's and 60s. Tell me a little bit about racing, hot rod culture.
LP: Well, we used to race in Stanton Michigan. So, every weekend we probably be six or eight
of us that would drive up there. Up by Greenville. Yeah. Up by [Indistinguishable]. I think the
drag strip is still there.
EG: It still is there.
LP: It's still there. And then there was one in Indiana I can't remember the name of that one
right now.
EG: Okay.
LP: We went down there just a couple times. Yeah. We put a group of people from here that you
knew from the community would go up there to Stanton up and down Indiana.
EG: Yeah, interesting.
LP: So, this was the weekend. Usually, every weekend you were somewhere for racing.
EG: Okay, very interesting. How'd that go? [Laugh] How many did you win?
LP: I think I won two trophies.
EG: Okay.
MS: Nice.
[All Laugh]
LP: Right now, you can probably buy those trophies for three dollars, so what you had invested
it wasn't really for making the money.
�EG: Sure, sure. That's fascinating. Did you do a lot of customization or modification that you
made to your cars?
LP: Oh, yeah. Yeah, obviously, all lowered, with laid pipes on. It would come out like…
EG: Yeah. Right. I assume you drove your car, I mean...
LP: Yeah, we drove them back and forth.
EG: Yeah, that's what I meant.
LP: My friend, he had a Corvette. We towed that back with a rope, at fifty-five mile an hour too.
Oh, yeah and he would put his brakes on if he see someone trying to pull out. Because If I just
hit the brakes...
EG: Yeah, right...
Yeah right. I mean... He couldn't quite react, so it was up to him to make sure he can put the
brakes on. So, anyways, up to Stanton, I think it's 80 miles.
EG: It's a long way from here.
LP: 80-90?
EG: Yeah, it'd be a good haul.
LP: It's quite North and East in Grand Rapids. So, yeah and no highways. I mean, no 131, 196,
or any of that.
EG: How did you go up there? Did you just- did you start right away and back roads?
LP: Back roads. Yeah, back roads. That all ended when I got married, so. [Chuckles] Racing
days were over.
EG: How old were you when you got married?
LP: 20.
EG: So, a couple years.
�LP: A couple years. A couple years of having… I'm not gonna say it, good time.
EG: Yeah. How did you meet your wife?
LP: Well, that same summer that I was laid off. I worked for a gentleman who had a milk
delivery.
EG: Okay.
LP: I did the commercial runs every weekend. Well, she was from Hopkins and she was some
living with some lady in Saugatuck, and she worked at the one restaurant where I had made a
delivery and we met that way.
EG: Got you. What was the restaurant?
LP: [Sighs] Ned Roberts owned it. Portacall.
EG: Okay, very good.
LP: Boy, you're getting lucky on my memory. It's not the greatest at times It comes and goes
sometimes. It's like AM radio, fades in, fades out. [All laugh]
19:50
EG: So, racing. Did you ever race at the Air Park Speedway?
LP: No, but we went to there when I was in grade school, because a friend who announced made
the announcements while we were running and all that we'd set up there in the booth with him. It
was Thomas... We had Thomas Insurance here, if you ever heard of that.
EG: I have not, not yet.
[All Laugh]
EG: Not yet. I like that connection.
LP: Yeah, so definitely an interesting in racing and hot rods. That's where we…
EG: Was there driving around racing, racing on the streets as well in this area?
�LP: Oh, yeah. One of the cops used to watch for us help us out. So, that he knew the kids were
doing it, you know, so he would watch over you a little bit me. Try to reduce the chance of
accidents and things like that.
EG: So, get in pretty so decent relationship with the police in town.
Never a problem, yeah.
EG: Yeah. How about when, you know part of the story… kind of you know things going on
and Saugatuck and Douglas go through late 50s and 60s but running with experience with you
know biker gangs is certainly something we've read a lot about. Did have any experience?
LP: We were... I was married when we had that, because I was a fire department over in
Douglas, and they rounded up a bunch of them in right took their motorcycles away from them,
put them in jail overnight and they put everything in the fire department, so the fire departments
guys to go back release them to them and that's how they copped out is what they did. They were
done. But, the guys were decent guys that had the motorcycles, they were just partying and
having a high old time. Sometimes, it got out of control.
EG: Too many, too many drinks too many times.
LP: Too many drinks, yeah.
EG: So you had all those bikes and stuff in fire station while you were there.
LP: Yeah, that's where they put them.
EG: Anything that stands out?
LP: That's when it was underneath the Village Hall.
EG: Okay. Got you.
LP: When the Fire Department was underneath it.
EG: Yeah. Anything that stands out about that? Were they decent guys? Where are these guys
from? Where were these, if you remember? All over?
LP: All over, yeah I think this group was out of Illinois though, kinda sticks in my mind. From
the Chicago area.
�EG: Interesting.
LP: Not trying to pass it onto Illinois. [Laughs]
EG: That's a first... That stands, that jumps out to you.
LP: Yeah, it stands out. I won't say it's a fact, but that's...
EG: Right.
LP: But that was just once that that ever happened, though. But I know the town would be so
busy it would be blocked off. They just stop traffic from going in because it was no more room
for cars to park or do anything else. They just stopped it and barricaded the roads. If you grew up
around here you know how to get in without...
[All Laugh]
MS: Other ways in.
LP: Other ways, yeah. [Laughs]
EG: Knew all the back roads.
LP: Saugatuck's always been a busy, busy town.
EG: Yeah. Lots of activity. Were there, kind of switching, your experiences there. You
mentioned spending a lot of time there, hanging out in high school and teenage years and
twenties. Were there particular places that you, aside from the Soda Lounge, you mentioned bars,
as you got older, bars or restaurants...?
LP: I didn't really frequent the bars. yeah. If anything, once we' were married, we'd go to The
Butler to eat, or the Coral Gables. We didn't do that very often.
[All laugh]
EG: Not common.
LP: Not, no.
�EG: You said you had three kids?
LP: It was a real treat. Three kids.
EG: That's a handful right there
[All Laugh]
LP: You know what you had to order, you knew how much you could spend, and you knew how
many drinks you could have, because you still had to pay the babysitter when you got home, so it
was a good deal whatever you did it. Most of the time, we got together with other people that we
hang around with you know and have get togethers at their house. You know, have dinner or
something. Somebody brings this you bring that. That worked well.
MS: Nice little potluck.
EG: Do you remember some of the families that you guys used to hang out with for dinners and
things like that?
LP: Yeah. A lot of are them gone already. Shruten Gus was one of them. The Whitemans. He
was the plumber in town.
25:12
LP: Oh, golly. I know there was a lot of other people there but you most of are them all gone
now too. Oh, and then we snowmobiled too. We started the snowmobile club, The Snow Gutters.
There were some fifty some members.
EG: What year did that start, approximately? 1960s? 50s.
LP: Oh, quite early. Because I ended up I bought a used snowmobile. It was a year old it, was a
59. Then, I bought a brand-new one that was 1960.
EG: Okay. Nice.
LP: Yeah. That was out at the old airport. Okay. And then you could ride in the winter I mean
the winters were bad enough where you could just take off and ride anywhere you wanna go.
EG: Was that common in town, that people road snow machines in town, or not so much?
�LP: Well, we set up trail areas where you wanted to go into town, to any of The Butler or the
Coral Gables. You had a certain way that we put up signs for snowmobiles in town, in Douglas
also.
EG: Okay, that's great. What were those, do you remember what snowmobiles you had, the 59
and the 60?
LP: Ours were Arctic Cats. There were Arctic Cats, Polaris. I think they're both still about the
only ones going. I can try to remember some of the other names, but I can't. Johnson was making
some.
EG: Yeah, Johnson had one.
LP: Oh, there were a lot of different brands. I don't remember them anymore, I'm sorry.
EG: That's alright, I was just curious. Where did they come from? Was there a dealer? Where
did people get them?
LP: We bought the Arctic Cats in Holland, and Mercury was over across that was one of the
other brands the Mercury Motor, or Snowmobile, yeah and I was trying to think there was
another one up here next to where the Red Wood Drive-In used to be. I can't remember what
brand it was. It was pretty popular, but they would repair any snow mobiles.
EG: Right.
LP: If you had a problem with them, most of time you better do your own fixing. [Laugh]
Which is often.
EG: Often.
[All Laugh]
LP: Yeah, it was.
EG: Very cool. So, it's a winter experience there, too.
LP: Pretty fun stuff from early on.
EG: Yeah. Favorite places to go in the summertime? You mentioned Mount Baldhead and
climbing that as a kid. Oval Beach.
�LP: Yeah, Oval Beach. Douglas Beach. We didn't... We went camping once up to Holland when
the kids were little, stayed up at the State Park. Otherwise, you got you got your summer
destination right here.
EG: Okay.
LP: We had a boat.
EG: A boat as well, nice. Do you have other questions that you can think of here?
MS: Yeah, you mentioned the big pavilion and the pavilion in the movie theater. Did you go
there often or maybe just once or twice?
LP: No, it used to be every week whenever they'd change. If it was a decent movie, we went
over there to see it.
MS: Oh, nice.
LP: And we used to go to the wrestling there. okay. Oh, wrestling? Gorgeous George and all the
Flow Eagle...
[All Laugh]
LP: I can't believe they can fake stuff so well.
EG: They do a pretty good job.
LP: That was inside the big ballroom where they have the wrestling.
EG: Right.
MS: Oh wow.
EG: Other events you remember or other things, memorable things from the Big Pavilion you
remember doing there or seeing in there?
LP: They had a drive theater just half-way to Holland.
EG: Okay.
�LP: Oh yeah, so we go there for movies when the kids are little.
EG: Right.
LP: That was perfect. Yeah, quite a lot of... a lot of people did it.
30:08
EG: So, you mentioned you were in the fire department. Were you in the Fire Department when
the Pavilion caught on fire?
LP: Yes, I was because I was was one of the other firemen and we were up on top of the roof at
the El Forno.
EG: Okay.
LP: Yeah, and it got so hot, we were hiding behind where the air movement came out of the
building you know yeah. Yeah, because it was so hot. When it finally broke lose, really good,
that was a little scary.
EG: I bet.
MS: I can't imagine.
LP: Because if you look where the pavilion was right there in relationship to the El Forno. I
mean, next door.
EG: It was next door you.
LP: Oh, man, because house is on the other side burnt, one of the restaurants and then it was
three houses across the river that caught fire and burned to the ground.
EG: Okay.
MS: Oh wow.
EG: From the embers?
LP: Yeah. It was a good thing the wind was out of the direction that it was.
�EG: Right.
LP: Otherwise, it could have taken could've whole the town.
EG: Right.
MS: Oh wow.
LP: It was a huge fire.
EG: Yeah, for sure. Other parts aspects of that do you remember? How you get the call or how
you respond to that?
LP: I was working at the pie factory and somebody… They just had a bell at that time and then
finally… Well, it was Lloyd Harris himself, he came out to the dock and he says they got severe
fire going on downtown at the pavilion, so you guys can go help so I was not on the fire
department at that time.
EG: Okay, got you. They just recruited you as volunteer.
LP: Yeah, to volunteer to go down and help where you could.
EG: Yeah. When you were up at El Forno's roof, did you have water or something?
LP: Yeah, we had fire hoses.
EG: Okay, got you.
LP: Trying to keep that the roof and that wet, wetted down too, to keep that from catching fire.
EG: Yeah, quite the fire. How long did that go on? What was your term memory of that
experience there?
LP: Oh, it must have been that at least six hours and I know there was a crew that stated during
the night because it was you know, it would flash up a little bit just to maintain it, but I didn't I
didn't help. That was done they when the building finally collapsed and everything, everything
was gone anyways. It was shortly after that that I got on the fire department.
EG: Okay. That was your baptism by fire.
�LP: Right and I spent forty-some years the on fire department. okay. Between Saugatuck,
between Douglas and then when Douglas went to Saugatuck. John Black was the Chief and I
was the Assistant Chief.
EG: Yeah. Are there other big event that you remember responding to this is part of that.
LP: Oh yeah, the Tara when it burned, right next door. That was a a big fire. Yeah, there was
a couple hotels in Saugatuck that burned. Can't remember the names of them.... Mount Baldhead
Hotel, where Ship and Shore is. That burned. I can't remember the other one was in the middle,
but it was another hotel that burned to the White... The Whitehouse, I think it's called but it was
Casablanca, and blanca is Spanish for white.
EG: Right yeah, yeah. Very good. So, and then, kinda shifting back to work at the Harris Pie
Factory. Tell me about your work there in the later years, jumping forward a little bit. And, I'm
guessing, retirement?
LP: Well yeah, when Food closed finally. I went to Saugatuck and worked and drove a lift truck,
and then I got involved in maintenance. Worked my way up through there. Went to several
schools. Got knowledge of refrigeration and electrical.
EG: Okay. The whole works.
LP: So then, I got the opportunity to be head of maintenance and chief engineer for the whole
plant and anything involved.
35:13
LP: Then, well, we went through some bad times there, too. When Harris sold the business, he
sold it to Mrs. Smith Pie Company. I don't know if you've ever heard of Mrs. Smith, but they're
out east, out in Pennsylvania.
EG: Yeah.
LP: It got caught in an anti-trust suit.
EG: Okay.
MS: Oh.
�EG: What year was this?
LP: And it was that way for two years, then two guys bought it. Frank Roca and I can't
remember the name of the other, the guy’s name but they were there for the money because all
the money that had made it went into the bank in a lump sum and they paid so much for the plant
on took the money.
EG: Got you. About what year was this... Did Harris sell the plant and then the ...
LP: I think it was around… [Mutters] I want to say it was in the seventies.
EG: Okay.
LP: If I start talking about another one, I'll probably remember when the date was. But, they had
it for two years. And, then it went. They were having trough financial and a company
in Chicago took us over and they finished it up in about a year and a half or so. It had right
around 78 when it all started going bad because at '82 it was closed and two of us were retained
by the bank to keep it, so nobody would mess with it. In '82 Mrs.... or Rich Products wanted to
buy all the equipment and they came there, and they were looking at. They wanted all the
equipment and they asked me if I stay there to help him unload it and I says, "No, when that
happens, I'll be gone." They just, then they decided to buy the whole plant.
EG: Okay.
LP: When the meantime, Chef Pierre was after me to go work for them in Traverse City.
I kind of held them off because Rich Products and them both gave me an offer on the same day. I
went up there and they showed houses and everything else for us to move there.
EG: It's good to be in demand.
[All Laugh]
LP: Yeah, it was. Worked out where they both made me the same. nearly the same offer.
okay and I didn't have to move and start paying for another house. [Chuckles] So, I just
stayed, yeah. Yeah, that was in 1982, and I was assistant manager with a fellow from
Winchester, Virginia. and then he got called to another plant in Appleton and they made me
general manager. I did that for twelve years. then they got so busy that they didn't want to build
any more in the town. The town really wasn't real good favor about adding more industrial area
to it because it's a resort town, so.
�EG: Right. In this specific location, probably, too.
LP: Right.
EG: It's right there, right on your way in and out of town.
LP: Right, yep. So, they just turned it over to Sarah Lee, the business and then we shut the whole
plant down and stripped it I'm trying to remember the fellows that bought it. Anyway, the Fruit
Exchange. The office building used to be the old Saugatuck Fruit Exchange, the one on the south
side of Culvers Street, where it's a park now.
EG: Yeah.
LP: That had I big building in there. It might be one of those pictures in there of that, I don't
know.
EG: Okay, we will have to look. So, this would have been the early 1990s?
LP: No, it was in 1998, when that happened.
EG: Okay.
LP: That's when we closed it, when we were done with it.
EG: Got you.
LP: And then, I worked for Rich Products, going around to different plants, helping them on
different items and I did that for two years and then a friend of mine. I went to work for him in
Grand Rapids for two years and retired.
40:01
LP: Excuse me a minute, I don't...
EG: No, that's okay.
LP: It was the wife. My daughter and all of them are in Hawaii.
EG: Very nice.
�MS: A good place to be.
LP: I don't know why you'd travel anywhere else when right here, you've got everything you
need here, beach wise.
EG: Changes that you've of kind of, reflecting over changes seen you in Saugatuck and
Douglas? What are some things that have changed the most from your childhood to now?
LP: Well, we used to…. The Butler, we went there last night. We still do, but you don't know
anybody any more in there. Used to be our town, you know, and now it's the younger, a different
group that is in there.
And we belong to the Singapore Yacht Club, because we were there for 12 years with a boat, and
then we bought a motor home and did that for about ten years and now we got a fifth-wheel that
we bought, and sat a lot in Florida, and we go down there in winter.
MS: Escape some of the cold.
LP: For a while. Escape some of the cold.
EG: How long do you go down there?
LP: For three months three and a half.
EG: Other changes that you've seen for the good or for the bad?
LP: I think everything is more or less been for the good. I'm not so fond of the highway out here.
EG: More and more traffic.
LP: More and more traffic, yeah. It's not made where. I mean you pull of of Douglas and you
almost swiped my car and it's getting there for a left and turn and if a truck comes, they almost
have to go over to that. And then, you see the bicycles riding down the highway.
EG: Yeah. Quite the mix.
LP: Yeah.
[All Laugh]
�LP: That was the only place where it was wide enough where they didn't have to use the
highway really if they didn't need to. So, I... well… maybe they say it helps Douglas. I don't
know if it does or doesn't, but it's there.
EG: Way too soon to tell.
LP: Yeah.
EG: Looking ahead, kind of thinking about you know, this interview will be saved for a long
time. So, when someone listens to this tape fifty years from now, imagine that, what would you
like to know about your life and the community right now?
LP: I enjoyed both communities.
EG: Of Saugatuck and Douglas.
LP: [Laughs] Of Saugatuck and Douglas, but I'm still partial to Douglas. [Laughs] No, I think
it's a great area really.
EG: In particular things you described for some future listeners that we don't know who that
moment might be like?
LP: Yeah, would be interested in another fifty years. Didn't change much over in the last fifty
really. I mean the buildings got renewed or something like that you know.
EG: It's still recognizable place from your child as a resort community a small town small.
LP: Yeah, small town, and you know, yeah.
EG: Any advice for a young person that might listen to this tape?
LP: I think it's more of a retirement area, as to find a job in town and live here is kind of tough
now.
EG: Yeah.
LP: When we were younger it wasn't. I mean, we had grocery stores, so you were here all the
time. Well, they still have the grocery store. More work.
EG: More year-round work.
�LP: Yeah, more year-round work. More diversity of work. It's kind of nice for the younger
people. They've got a lot of different places that they can work. My daughter she works is
waitress at The Butler. I think she's the oldest one her been there the longest. Not the oldest but
been there the longest.
EG: Very good.
LP: Fifty years, that's an interesting, I've got to do some more thinking on that one, you know.
EG: Right.
LP: I don't know much more can it change.
MS: Yeah.
44:59
EG: Tough to say. I guess another way to look at is what you imagined your life would be like,
when you're in the school building, looking forward imagining fifty years down the road Is
Saugatuck and Douglas pretty much how you expected?
LP: Course it changes.
[Phone Rings]
EG: You're in demand.
MS: That's a fun tune.
LP: Somebody trying to save interest on your credit card. I don't know if you get those calls.
EG: Yeah, we do. [All Chuckle]
LP: It drives me nuts. Where were we? [All Laugh]
EG: I guess another way to say it did you imagine when you were a kid that you would stay here
in Douglas?
�LP: Yeah, I kind of did, because there was always work and it was busy, you know. Of course,
we had the company here so that employed quite a few people, really.
EG: Right, for sure. Any other questions that you have on your mind there, Megan?
LP: No, not really. Not at the moment.
EG: Anything else we didn't ask about that you want to share?
LP: Not really. Other than food industries, there was the Morgan Ice Company. It was bought,
but you probably know that.
LP: In that hall, we used to play basketball over there when we were here in school. It used to be
that the Douglas ACs owned it. I don't know what it was originally made for. I never inquired.
EG: I don't know off-hand myself.
LP: Somebody said it was a church at some time.
EG: Yeah, I think that's accurate.
MS: Yeah. The Library? Yeah, I think it was a church, and then....
LP: I don't ever remember it being as a church when I was going to school here. right. I know
the athletic office was active there. Yeah, they had all their weightlifting and all that stuff in the
basement. That was quite popular back then, too, with baseball teams Fast pitch for men. That's
kind of disappeared now. But, a lot of the guys here played it. I didn't, I didn't care for softball.
The library tore down the house we lived in for two years right after we were married.
[All Chuckle]
EG: Bit of a loss.
LP: A bit of a loss, yeah. Some things have come and gone. But the town is still advancing,
though. Some beautiful homes go up. Lake Shore, there are some nice ones out there. [Chuckles]
It is a retirement area, really, when you stop and look at it. Other than what kind of labor you call
it that work for the waitresses, the stores.
EG: The service industry.
�LP: Yeah, service. That's what I'm trying to think of, service industry. There are no major
companies around, like there used to be so. Holland is a place where you go to work.
EG: Oh, very good. Unless we have any other questions or comments, I'm going to thank you.
Thank you so much for your time.
LP: Thank you for having me.
EG: For sharing your memories here.
LP: I wish I could remember more. I'll probably think about a bunch of them.
EG: We can always do a part two. If you think of some good stories, let us know.
LP: If there's something you need.
MS: We can always come back.
LP: Well, I was on the fire department so that was always involved. Then, I was on the city
board here. Did that. It was active, it was the job that held me here, so I stayed.
EG: And it’s a long continuity, it sounds like. You've had a long time of being here to
understand how things work.
LP: What doesn't work.
EG: What doesn't work, yeah.
LP: Yeah, all towns have the same problems. I think. Roads and everything else.
EG: Well, very good.
LP: I enjoyed the area. I love the area.
EG: Very good. We appreciate you sharing all that of and with that. I'm going go ahead and I'll
stop the recording here, and this concludes our interview today. Thank you.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Summers in Saugatuck-Douglas Collection
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. Kutsche Office of Local History
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains images and documents digitized and collected through the project "Stories of Summer," supported by a National Endowment for the Humanities Common Heritage Grant. The collection aims to document the twin lakeshore communities of Saugatuck and Douglas, Michigan, as they transformed through the state's bustling tourism industry and acceptance of minorities.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1910s-2010s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Various
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/UND/1.0/">Copyright Undetermined</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Douglas (Mich.)
Michigan, Lake
Allegan County (Mich.)
Beaches
Sand dunes
Outdoor recreation
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries. Allendale, Michigan
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Saugatuck-Douglas History Center
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Text
Language
A language of the resource
English
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
DC-07_SD-PhillipsL_2018-07-21
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Philips, Larry
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-07-21
Title
A name given to the resource
Larry Philips (interview transcript) 2018
Description
An account of the resource
Larry Phillips recounts his time in Saugatuck and Douglas, where he grew up. In this interview, he discusses working several jobs, including his work at the Lloyd J. Harris Pie Company. He also discusses his time as a firefighter and provides a first-hand account of the Big Pavilion fire.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Gollanek, Eric (interviewer)
Stevens, Megan (interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Michigan
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Douglas (Mich.)
Allegan County (Mich.)
Motorcycle gangs
Automobiles
Oral history
Audio recordings
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Stories of Summer project, Kutsche Office of Local History. Grand Valley State University
Relation
A related resource
Stories of Summer (Common Heritage project)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio/mp3
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/bce330849f302bf9d14d53353e2aa3d0.mp4
c81c332d41d11fbca322676ddb99eda3
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f9299c4e8a0266180afa0e66f9af7c33.pdf
e7f3058ba9565d371545fa780b1a7727
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veterans History Project Interview Notes
Length: 49:07
Albert Larsen
WWII Veteran
United States Navy; December 1942 to October 1945
YMS minesweeper
(00:25) Pre-enlistment:
• Born in Arcadia but moved at the age of five to Chicago
• Lived in Chicago for seven years (1928-34)
• Left Chicago right after Worlds Fare closed and moved to Corunna, MI
• Moved to Grand Rapids were he finished his senior year in high school, but had to
graduate in Corunna
• After graduation he drove trucks for a company in Grand Rapids
• Soon after getting a job he got a draft notice from Uncle Sam
(2:11)Enlistment/Training:
• Joined Navy because the amenities
• Trained for nine weeks in the Great Lakes
• While at the Great Lakes naval base he stayed in new facilities, but they lacked
hot water
• Went to diesel school at Navy Pier for a total 18 weeks
• After diesel school he went to the Fargo building in Boston where he waited until
he was sent to his next location
• From Boston he was sent to Boothbay Harbor where he would overlook the ship
building process in order to have a better understanding of the ships
• Saw the YMS ships being built in Chicago while on liberty time
(5:31) Description of the Mine sweeping ships (YMS):
• Length was 136 ft., weight was approximately 200 tons, draft was 9 feet
• The ships had to go through a process that demagnetized them
(6:56) Boothbay (further description):
• Fishing town
• He waited there until his boat was finished
• They took the boat for a trial run in the Atlantic
• Brought the boat to Boston where they took part in a shakedown cruise (test drive
that tested the limits of the ship)
(9:03) The Captain:
• He was 70 years old when he was brought back into service
• He owned the Marblehead, MA, newspaper.
�•
After the mission had been seen through the executive officer took over as captain
of the ship
(9:44) Patrols:
• From Boston they would patrol from Nova Scotia to Key West, FL.
• They would be searching for U-boats, and even sent depth charges once after a
possible sighting by their radar/sound man.
(10:55) Leaving for England:
• They left April 1st 1943
• The convey consisted of 129 ships
• The weather was very bad during the trip there (100 ft. waves)
• It took 31 days to reach England
(13:15) In England:
• Went to Plymouth and Isle White
• Lived on board their ship
• Got to go ashore/shore leave- went to London from Plymouth
(14:45) Before D-day operations:
• Had to clear the beaches for the invasion at Omaha
• Did the sweeping only hours before the full invasion
• They were shot at during those sweeping mission which they did with no escort
• After the invasion they went on more sweeping mission.
• Had to avoid enemy fire using tactics the captain had learned to employ
• They had no knowledge of the plans before D-day
• In total five mine sweeping ships were sunk
(18:15) Mine Sweeping:
• 3 types of mines: Contact, Magnetic, and Acoustic
• Contact mines are the types of mines we think of when we see mines with spikes
jutting out of them. Ships simply ran into them to set them off
• Magnetic mines would be set off by the metal on the ships
• Acoustic mines could be blown up a ½ mile away with an acoustic hammer
• They were on sweeping duty for around 6 months
• They were one of the three most damaged ships in the invasion that did not sink
• They dry docked at a French floating dock
• While there they helped unload patients
(24:10) Story of Doctor from Michigan:
• Meet Doctor Mayo who he knew once
• He was being sent home because his nerves were bad due to working on so many
patients during the war
(27:00) Cherbourg:
• The buildings were in shambles
�• The city was being made read to be used a base of operations
• He talked about one particular friend that live in Cherbourg that was an artist
(27:58) New Orders:
• He and his crew got orders to go back to the US a 1 ½ years after the invasion
• Went through Panama canal to LA
• Went to dentist while docked in LA, and got new order due to his visit
• New job was driving trucks as part of a motor pool on base
• His boat went on to Japan leaving him in LA (bad weather on way to Japan)
(29:59) Atomic Bomb:
• His only knowledge of the event was what was on the news
• Remembered people being happy about the news because they were getting ready
to invade Tokyo
(30:04) After Discharged:
• He went on to do mechanic work (truck lines, locomotives)
• He was never without work and never unemployed
(31:10) Pearl Harbor:
• Only remembered the emotions of excitement over the news
(32:08) Experience on the Ocean:
• Waves were very high which caused many to be sea sick
• “Wooden ships make iron men”
(33:12) Death of FDR
• Made him uncertain of how things would turn out
• Truman was thought to be the gutsy one
(33:53) Story of French Fisherman:
• While sweeping for mines near France they found a mine near a fisherman who
did not understand their calls to him to get out of the area. The mine was blown
up and the resulting explosion caused the fisherman to paddle away frantically.
He understood then.
(35:00) Chief Petty Officer 1st Class:
• In charge of the engine room on the starboard watch
• Some description of the leadership role involved
(36:00) D-Day:
• He describes the sight of the ships and planes during the invasion
• He also describes how the docks were built of the shore during the invasion
• Some depiction of what it was like for the men that were sent to the beaches
• Boat got repaired while the main invasion took place
�(40:40) After Invasion:
• Had to get refueled by tankers
• Had further missions to mine sweep rivers
• Docking in France
(42:28) Sinking of the 304:
• Saw his ship in the TV program called Sea Detectives
• The 278 and the 231 were also there
• He was sleeping at the time
• Soldiers who had witnessed the explosion had been injured by concussion
(43:55) Damage to the Ship:
• Motors would get loose and the engine would shift an inch out of line
• The rudders would be squashed shut
(45:00) Battleships:
• He could feel his clothes blow around with each shot of their armament
• His boat stayed close to the heavy cruiser Augusta
• They were about a ½ mile out from the beach
(46:01) Army Ducks [DUKWs]:
• They would be loaded of liberty ships
• Many would sink do to the choppy waters
• Picked up one guy seven times due to his duck sinking that many times
• Tanks would also launch into the water with very little success
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LarsenA
Title
A name given to the resource
Larsen, Albert (Interview outline and video), 2007
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Larsen, Albert
Description
An account of the resource
Albert Larsen served in the Navy during WW II as a diesel mechanic for a mine sweeping ship (YMS 231). He served from 1942 to 1945 and reached the rank of Chief Petty Officer 1st class. His training took place in both Michigan and on the east coast, and his time overseas was spent in England and along the coast of France. His interview includes descriptions of his life during training and his time on the open water. The major operation mentioned in the interview took place during D-Day off the Omaha landing site. His re-counting includes details about the mines, enemy fire, types of ships, operational tactics, and the damage sustained by his and other ships. He discusses his down time in the US, England and France.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2007-07-03
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/c7f3e6b6decaaf932057bc690b22ae0e.jpg
40803a3aa8d0b7bb628df6f13639d375
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Faces of Grand Valley
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
University Communications
Description
An account of the resource
A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1960s - 1990s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copryight
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
College administrators
College teachers
Colleges and universities -- Faculty
Michigan
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-03
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LarsonDonna
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. University Communications
Title
A name given to the resource
Larson, Donna
Description
An account of the resource
Donna Larson, Nursing
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University – History
College teachers
Universities and colleges – Faculty
Michigan
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/5e5d92ece7df35748ab9c0b81b9022bf.jpg
dc168042e53d2ef18569fd4598a92cfa
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Faces of Grand Valley
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
University Communications
Description
An account of the resource
A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1960s - 1990s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copryight
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
College administrators
College teachers
Colleges and universities -- Faculty
Michigan
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-03
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LarsonHarold
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. University Communications
Title
A name given to the resource
Larson, Harold
Description
An account of the resource
Harold Larson, Physics
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University – History
College teachers
Universities and colleges – Faculty
Michigan
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/34ca4a79a3fec40ac82edbc145d4d90c.m4v
45464b30b7cbb288fd5d5c4c123b0d6d
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/12d5ed9dbe2dfd6deb1a30b45acf0382.pdf
b39282428fff94659e5e0d8fff90bb54
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University
Veteran’s History Project
World War II
Samuel Latigo
Interview Length: (00:23:58:00)
Pre-Enlistment / Training (00:01:01:00)
Born in San Antonio, Texas on February 19, 1927 (00:01:01:00)
Went to school, but eventually stopped going when it got to the point that his family
needed financial help (00:01:07:00)
His grandmother raised him because his mother died when he was five years old and
when he was fifteen years old, his grandmother told him that he needed to go and look for
a job (00:01:23:00)
He walked all over San Antonio looking for a job and was unable to find one; he was on
his way home when he stopped at a gas station and asked the workers who was in charge
(00:01:43:00)
o The workers pointed to another man, so Latigo went up and asked whether or not
he needed any help; the man eventually gave Latigo the job after asking whether
or not he was looking for one (00:02:00:00)
o Worked at the gas station to the point that he received the keys to the station and
helped run the station (00:02:27:00)
Eventually got to the point that all his relatives, mainly his first cousins, were joining the
service, with the majority were going into the Navy (00:02:45:00)
When he turned seventeen, he had his parents give him permission to join the Navy
because that was where the majority of his cousins were enlisted (00:03:01:00)
Upon joining the service, the Navy sent him to San Diego, California, where he received
his basic training (00:03:30:00)
After he completed his basic training, the Navy allowed him to go home for three days
before he returned to California for more drilling (00:03:41:00)
o At the time, the men called the training a “grinder”, which consisted of men
marching in an empty parking lot (00:03:54:00)
Following the “grinder”, the men received amphibious training at Coronado Island, an
island next to San Diego and after the training, the Navy placed the sailors on a training
vessel that took the men to Astoria, Oregon (00:04:04:00)
o At Astoria, the sailors were assigned to a ship, which ironically, had not yet been
commissioned, thus making the sailors part of the ship’s original crew and giving
Latigo what was then called “the rights of the plank” (00:04:29:00)
Once they received their assignment, the sailors went up the Colombia River from
Astoria to San Francisco, California and from San Francisco, they picked up the combat
equipment of some Army soldiers because they had the holds in the ship to carry it
(00:04:59:00)
The ship Latigo served on was a troop transport named the U.S.S. Edgecombe, APA-164
(APA-Amphibious Personnel Assault), who’s primary mission was taking personnel from
one location to another (00:05:30:00)
�
When they left San Francisco, the Edgecombe had soldiers aboard and the men sailed
them to New Guinea, where they dropped the troops off before continuing to the
Philippines (00:06:22:00)
o They eventually traveled all over the South Pacific (00:06:40:00)
Latigo’s job on the Edgecombe was working in the engine room, mainly maintaining the
evaporator that helped make fresh water out of the salt water so that the sailors could
have drinking water and water to shower in (00:06:48:00)
The location of the evaporator was next to location that received orders from the bridge
dictating the numbers of RPM the bridge wanted, which they transmitted through a series
of series of levers (00:07:15:00)
o Due to his location, Latigo’s other job was to write down the orders that came
from the bridge (00:07:39:00)
o There was no erasing, so Latigo had to write down what the order was and what
time the order was given and he had to be very careful (00:07:47:00)
Apart from those two primary jobs, he also had to help keep the engine room clean
because when the skipper came down for inspection, the room had to be clean
(00:08:09:00)
Does not recall the exact number of men in the engine room because there were different
turns to do a job, but he estimates the number to be around a hundred men in each turn
(00:08:30:00)
Okinawa (00:09:05:00)
The Edgecombe was involved with the invasion of Okinawa on April 1, 1945
(00:09:05:00)
o Latigo’s job during the landing was acting as a gunner on one of the boats that
landed the troops on the shore; if the boat came under attack, his job was to “fight
back” and he ended up firing one time while he was the gunner (00:09:17:00)
They landed troops several times and it was not only Latigo’s boat, but boats from
several other ships that helped land the troops (00:09:55:00)
o The boats would land the troops then return to the Edgecombe, reload with
soldiers, and take them to the beach (00:10:12:00)
o Because the Edgecombe was just far enough away from the beach to drop anchor
and be out of the way of enemy bombardment, it took around and hour and a half
to land all the troops on the Edgecombe (00:10:41:00)
Every time they landed troops, they would have to circle around waiting for the
Edgecombe to be ready before they could return and pick up another load of troops to
bring to the beach (00:11:00:00)
The troops would come down a rope ladder to get into Latigo’s boat and they would have
to circle around, waiting for the other transports to be ready to go to the beach
(00:11:07:00)
Initially, they did not come under attack but they witnessed quite a few dogfights
between U.S. and Japanese aircraft (00:11:30:00)
o However, they needed to be very careful because the Japanese would come onto
their ship and ask the officer-in-charge if it was such and such a ship
(00:11:42:00)
�
o The men would reply that it was because the Japanese would throw grenades onto
the ships; this meant that the sailors had to be extra vigilant during the invasion as
to who exactly came onto their ship (00:12:01:00)
Only participated in the battle of Okinawa, although they did drop soldiers of in New
Guinea and the Philippines (00:12:22:00)
o They had an idea of what the purpose of the drop-offs were for, the eventual
invasion of Japan, but after the U.S. dropped the atomic bombs, they stopped
pushing for the invasion of Japan (00:12:47:00)
The Edgecombe was one of the first ships to take occupational troops to Japan,
specifically, the Northern Ansu region (00:13:08:00)
o After the war, Latigo ended up walking on Japanese soil, when the Edgecombe
landed the occupational troops (00:13:29:00)
They had one sailor pass away on the Edgecombe; they think the death was from overexhausting and they ended up giving the man a burial-at-sea (00:14:11:00)
o For the burial, the dead sailor was wrapped in a canvas bag which was sown up,
placed on a wooden slab, which had one end over the side of the ship and the
other end had the dead sailor covered in an American flag (00:14:39:00)
o The ship’s chaplain gave a service and when he gave the okay, the end of the slab
on the ship was raised and the body slid into the ocean (00:15:24:00)
They were constantly at sea and they only time that they were able to get off of the
Edgecombe was when they ship was in Pearl Harbor (00:15:45:00)
o They had fuel tankers that would come along side the Edgecombe, which would
take fuel on while staying at sea (00:16:13:00)
o At the time he was there, Pearl Harbor was still in shambles; it had not been
rebuilt (00:16:24:00)
They received the okay to come home in January, 1946 (00:16:45:00)
When they were in Okinawa, he was able to read Morse code transmitted by light from
ship to ship (00:17:07:00)
o He was not a signalman but Latigo was still able to read it and one time, while
still aboard ship at Okinawa, he was reading a message and he told his buddy that
the other ship had sent the message that Roosevelt had died (00:17:23:00)
o They had not heard anything about the death, but it was not long after that they
were informed that Roosevelt had indeed passed away (00:17:46:00)
Post-War (00:18:03:00)
After the war, they came home in January, 1946 (00:18:03:00)
o When they came home, they went to Portland, Oregon and on the way to
Portland, Latigo was informed that he could be discharged because he had
accumulated enough points (00:18:12:00)
o During that period, people were discharged from the military based on points,
which Latigo had enough of (00:18:28:00)
o Does not recall the amount of points needed for discharge, but remembers that
nineteen points was enough for him to be discharged (00:18:47:00)
Did not make any lasting friendships while in the Navy because to his knowledge, he was
the only man from Texas on the Edgecombe (00:19:08:00)
o One other man was from South Haven, Michigan (00:19:24:00)
�
A couple of years after the war, he reenlisted into the reserves, where he stayed for a
further five years (00:19:43:00)
Following his time in the service, Latigo went back to work at the gas station where he
had worked before the war; however, the owner was different, so Latigo did not care of
the job and he quit (00:20:11:00)
Then, he was on what was called a “fifty-two twenty”, meaning that the government was
giving the returning service men twenty dollars a week for fifty-two weeks (00:20:30:00)
o The money was not enough for him, so he got a job working at a refrigerator
factory in San Antonio, although he only made fifty cents an hour (00:20:45:00)
After the “fifty-two twenty” expired, Latigo’s uncle, who lived in Michigan and worked
at Ford, went on vacation and when he returned, he asked Latigo if he wanted to go as
well to see if he could get a job at Ford as well (00:21:13:00)
o Latigo did want to go and he did end up getting the job at Ford (00:21:33:00)
o He had a girlfriend that he left behind in San Antonio and he could not live
without her, so he quit Ford and went back to San Antonio (00:21:42:00)
o However, Latigo and the girlfriend broke up and he did not date after a while
(00:22:00:00)
Eventually, he met his future wife, a woman that he had known for all his life, when he
was sitting on the porch of his cousin’s house in San Antonio when she walked past
(00:22:12:00)
o Latigo’s cousin said that he would ask the woman out on a date and Latigo said
that he was going to ask her out on a date (00:22:27:00)
o He did ask her out on a date and they started dating (00:22:33:00)
When the two got married, they came to Michigan and they have lived in Michigan since
(00:22:39:00)
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LatigoS
Title
A name given to the resource
Latigo, Samuel (Interview outline and video), 2010
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Latigo, Samuel
Description
An account of the resource
Samuel Latigo was born in 1927 in San Antonio, Texas. Raised by his grandmother, he worked as a teen before enlisting in the Navy at the age of seventeen. Following training in San Diego, the Navy assigned him to the troop transport U.S.S. Edgecombe. The Edgecombe carried troops to New Guinea and the Philippines and participated in the invasion of Okinawa and the landing of occupation troops in Japan following the end of the war. Following the end of the war, the Edgecombe returned to the United States and the Navy discharged Latigo.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Ryan, Kelci (Interviewer)
Caledonia High School (Caledonia, Mich.)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Michigan--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
United States. Navy
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2010-03-27
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project Collection, (RHC-27)</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf
video/mp4
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/40dd4bc828a2b7cfb8e9952542ab6223.jpg
e0daa2c94330ab0f1d2d42d145e66eb4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Faces of Grand Valley
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
University Communications
Description
An account of the resource
A non-comprehensive collection of photographs of Grand Valley faculty, staff, administrators, board members, friends, and alumni. Photos collected by University Communications for use in promotion and information sharing about Grand Valley with the wider community.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1960s - 1990s
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
GV012-03. University Communications. Vita Files
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copryight
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University
College administrators
College teachers
Colleges and universities -- Faculty
Michigan
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
GV012-03
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LauberteEmma
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. University Communications
Title
A name given to the resource
Lauberte, Emma
Description
An account of the resource
Emma Lauberté, Modern Languages
Subject
The topic of the resource
Grand Valley State University – History
College teachers
Universities and colleges – Faculty
Michigan
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
University Communications. Vita Files, 1968-2016 (GV012-03)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. Special Collections and University Archives
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpeg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/f434e7d5d514753cb2c0731c7e1fed99.mp4
cda1ac3fdf8c207719926c2efaa20d05
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/1cbbe08e56257676fcb2bfe6c06f5687.pdf
71392e06cbc6493cffd4dc86a438095f
PDF Text
Text
Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Interview length: 1:53:02
James: We're talking today with Kent Laudeman of Niles Michigan. The interviewer is James
Smither of the Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project. But if you can start us off
with some background on yourself, and to begin with where and when were you born.
Kent: I was born in 1943 in Bremen Indiana, it's about 25 miles south of South Bend.
James: Okay, and did you grow up there?
Kent: I grew up there until I went to college and then kind of left that particular area to Western
Michigan University.
James: Okay, what did your family do for a living when you were growing up there?
Kent: My dad was a farmer and I grew up on a farm, and my mother did some office work for
Monsanto .
James: Okay alright, and when did you finish high school?
Kent: In 1961?
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: Okay and then you went to Western Michigan University from there?
Kent: I went to Indiana Central College for two years and then transferred it up to Western
Michigan University and was there for a total of seven years. I avoided the draft for a long long
time.
James: It was that, that was the year you could still go with graduate school to keep you out?
Kent: It was 65 I mean I was I was doing a college deferment from 61 to 65.
James: Mm-hmm.
Kent: And then 65 to 68 three years of graduate work and continued that deferment.
James: Alright.
Kent: Till Uncle Sam caught on.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: I guess my impression was that in a lot of cases the Graduate School deferment had
already gone away, or did you start early enough that?
[0:00 - 1:35]
Kent: Well the draft ended in 75 so I was still 66, 67, 68.
James: Yeah, but I think and I think and that my impression wasn't that figure yet that the
graduate school deferment had already gone away. You couldn't just hide in graduate school
necessarily.
Kent: No, I could until they caught up with me in 68 and didn't let me defer any more because I
wasn't married. I wasn't working at an okay situation.
James: So you managed to kind of get there under the radar?
Kent: Right.
James: Okay, so what were you studying in graduate school?
Kent: Undergraduate work was elementary education because I thought I wanted to be a
teacher and a principal, and then I got into counseling and Student Personnel Services.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: Alright so what kind of impression or understandings did you have of the Vietnam War
while you were in college?
Kent: Well interesting that's probably why I pursued the deferment. Nobody in my family had
ever been in the service so I had no experience to fall back on and that wasn't really a pleasant
time with Kent State Jackson State and so forth is the culture was such that you were kind of for
or against it okay.
James: Alright yeah so it's all sort of kind of going on.
Kent: Yeah.
James: Alright so but then you eventually you get a notice.
Kent: I was drafted so I changed from one induction Center which was Indiana up to Michigan.
Deferred for a little bit more, got a delayed entry plan because I was writing a thesis for a
specialist degree at that particular time. That bought me another three months it got me into late
August and September.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: But of what year?
Kent: Of 1968.
James: Okay alright, and so at this point are you going in as enlisted?
[1:34 - 3:27]
Kent: So I was drafted as enlisted. I had checked and thought maybe I could get into Social
Work or something like that with the counseling background, but the recruiters said no we really
don't need that kind of person. So, I was drafted got in did basic and advanced training at Fort
Dix New Jersey.
James: Okay.
Kent: 11 Bravo infantry.
James: Okay so you said go Fort Dix for basic what was that like, but what happened there.
Kent: Well I was lucky enough to be put in a company and a platoon that had mostly college
students in it.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: mm-hmm
Kent: Which was just exceptional. I mean they kind of said we were all loafing, but when it came
time to take the APFT the physical fitness test we always came through. We we knew when we
had to show up as were about it. Otherwise okay, we were playing the game and going through
all of the drill and and everything like that and being a good soldier. Okay but but not being
overly good as far as a soldier is concerned.
James: Okay what impression did you have of the drill instructors? Or did you know anything
about what their backgrounds were?
Kent: Smoky hats were pretty much pushers. NCO’s, good physical shape, gun ho. I mean what
we pretty much experienced I think given my fireman background discipline hard work and so
forth. It didn't hit me in terms of the discipline and regimentation like it did some college
graduates.
James: Okay so you adapted to army life relatively easy.
Kent: Right.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: Okay now did some of the other guys you were with have a lot more trouble?
Kent: Oh yes.
James: What kinds of things went on with them?
[3:28 - 5:15]
Kent: Some of it was just the pressure and the stress of the constant pushing encouragement to
do better, excel be all you can be when they kind of knew what they could be. And because they
were drafted didn't want to be maybe and we're just there because they were drafted. Okay and
pushing through the two years or the three years whatever they had been required to sign up
for.
James: But were they basically accepting of their fate on some level and “Okay I'm-”
Kent: Pretty much so.
James: “-gonna get through it.”
Kent: Pretty much so yes.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: Alright how long did basic last?
Kent: Ooh... Eight weeks and then another eight weeks for advanced infantry training.
James: Okay now to what extent was the advanced training geared toward Vietnam?
Kent: It's always lingering in the back of your mind. I mean this is the height from 65 to 75 so 68
late 68 69 that was there the NCOs had pushed us said, “you know if you don't do well you're
gonna probably end up there.” So you know they used it in a motivating kind of way but really
none of the training for basic RIT other was standard training. I mean it was not in preparation
for Vietnam it was standard training.
James: Alright so you could go anywhere essentially?
Kent: Go anywhere.
James: Okay that was another eight weeks?
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: So I finished the AIT and then you get sent on for MOS training in a particular school, they
sent me to Fort Gordon, Georgia to be an auto den person, which is typist and message
trafficking and so forth. And so I went down there and that happened to be also where social
workers in the army went. There were gonna be officers so I scampered over there then gently
inquired and said, “You know what's the chances of getting transferred out of auto den training
to being in Social Work given my particular background,” and nobody would listen to me, but in
basic I put all the paperwork in for a correct Commission.
James: Okay.
[5:16 - 7:34]
Kent: And that came through once I got I finished auto den training.
James: So what did auto den training consist of.
Kent: Basically teletype that kind of messaging. Okay ticker tape cards if you think about what
we were doing in terms of Technology and communication at that particular time.
James: Computer cards?
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: Computer cards. So you know sometimes maybe when you went through registration you
got a stack of cards, well that's similar to what was happening as far as auto den training was
concerned.
James: Okay all right, but then okay so at this point it's possible then for someone like yourself
who's got a college degree or some kind of specialized background to receive a direct
Commission to do for certain kinds of jobs?
Kent: I put everything in okay, now whether I would get it or not, I don't know. My wife was
expecting our first son at that time she was back in Bremen with my parents. So, after I finished
auto den school I was put into a holding company and was put in charge of a platoon, as far as
that company is concerned, so was just kind of doing general-
James: Right.
Kent: -NCO specialists kinds of duties and so forth.
James: Alright, but then the Commission actually does come through.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: So, at the end of June I was commissioned a second lieutenant in the adjutant-general
corps.
James: Alright and so now what happens to you?
Kent: And now I got sent to Fort Ben Harrison for a basic officer training, and went through that
program by that time I had almost a year of enlisted training.
James: Mm-hmm
Kent: So I was in pretty good shape for that physically speaking. Mentally speaking training as
far as first aid CPR all of that kind of good stuff-
James: Okay.
[7:35 - 9:34]
Kent: -that you generally get in officer basic school.
James: Okay I guess one usually thinks of Officer Basic as being in places like Fort Benning
and and so forth. Harrison's like a finance Institute.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: So the adjutant general school is there and finance was there.
James: Okay. So, do you think you've got a somewhat less physically intense officer training
than you would get if you were doing infantry or anything?
Kent: Why... I think it was probably more akin to my background and therefore felt more
comfortable with it. I don't- I'm not really a combat person as we'll see and got into Civil Affairs.
So to me, it was like going back to school yeah I mean-
James: Great.
Kent: -I enjoyed it. You were in the barracks, you had a room by yourself, you were treated like
a junior officer, I enjoyed it. I could have stayed there for the same time I spent in college.
James: Alright, and what were you actually learning there.
Kent: Doing different kinds of things that person. Pretty much adjutant-general kind of stuff
which would be paperwork, which would be awards, which would be personnel actions, things of
that nature from an administrative perspective. So that was very comfortable
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: Okay so this is specifically officer training for adjutants.
Kent: You still had weapons qualification and some general training-
James: Mm-hmm
Kent: -but that was just kind of redundant and repetitive of what I had earlier as an enlisted
person.
James: Right. Okay, and how long were you there.
Kent: Ooh... Probably about 12 weeks, and from there I went to be a second lieutenant at the
Athey station in Little Rock Arkansas, and that's the Armed Forces entrance and induction
station.
James: Okay.
[9:35 - 11:16]
Kent: So now I got to see where I came through in Detroit and what got me there. And I was the
psychological examiner at the Athey station in Little Rock Arkansas.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: Alright so what does that job actually consist of?
Kent: So anybody that was being drafted or was being that that was volunteering came through
the Armed Forces entrance and examination station. And part of that was the ASFA, the battery
in terms of aptitude and maybe the identification of what was going to be best for you in a draft
kind of way. Or, if you were enlisted you were kind of talked into a particular MOS, so we did the
aptitude part of that, and if somebody was struggling with that then I had to do a reading test
and interview and determine whether the person was fit or not for it as far as being drafted or
volunteering for the service.
James: Alright and how long were you there?
Kent: I was there almost a year?
James: Okay, now did you like that job or…?
Kent: I did like that job, and we were the little of the Little Rock Air Force Station. Which was
outside of town. I ran and I knew the dictionary of Occupational titles as far as titles were
concerned. But, one of the fellows that I didn't approve for being a volunteer was somebody that
came out of the Ozarks and could not read and desperately wanted to be in. So, we went
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
through that his occupation was really chicken catcher. So he at night would go in and take the
chickens off the roost put him into the cage and some of those 18 wheelers you saw with
multiple chicken cages was indeed he was doing that, that was in the dictionary of Occupational
titles. And I said “I just can't let you join the service because your lack of reading skills and what
the service was looking for and so forth,’ and at that time there was a marine captain who had
recruited this particular individual and he locked my heels at the door one day and said, “You
know how dare you lieutenant not accept my recruit,” and I stood by it I still said, “You know this
was not doing the individual any good and was not gonna do this service any good and so
forth.” That led to when I left my first Arcom medal at that particular place so I had a good group
of couple college students who were working with me as far as the testing is concerned. The
interviewing is concerned, and everything like that. I enjoyed it because it kind of tied in some of
my counseling my assessment kind of things that I had learned while I was in graduate school
and so forth I would have stayed there.
James: Alright so what did you get to do next.
Kent: Well then I got sent to Vietnam okay, and therefore I went down to Fort Polk for RVN
training for about a week.
[11:17 - 14:27]
[Unintelligible]
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: Excuse me?
James: What did that consist of?
Kent: Well that consisted of more what you could expect to find as far as being in Vietnam and
that would be things like booby traps, watching for booby traps, living in a jungle kind of
situation, and so forth. What's a triple canopy like it's also Louisiana probably hot humid fit that
particular scenario best and that's where the RVN training was at.
James: Did they try to teach you anything about the culture the place or the people or
anything and..
Kent: They don't remember anything about culture to tell you the truth.
James: Because they trained the combat infantry or a lot of it geared toward that.
Kent: So that was definitely military oriented squad work self-defense, Unit defense, unit
aggression, and so forth. Okay, it's strictly military in this case.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: Did they march you out into a swamp or field someplace?
Kent: You know we were waiver lieutenants going through that particular training so yeah, we
went out as a unit. But, nothing like basic training and AIT for another person so forth.
James: Alright, now is it on to Vietnam from there?
Kent: On to Vietnam for a year. Arrived in August and left in June arrived in August of 70 and
left in June of 71.
James: Okay, how did they get them out to Vietnam?
Kent: Well you know, I was an individual replacement so I didn't go as a part of the unit.
James: Right.
Kent: …. That’s a good question, I don't remember all together a little bit... a long flight.
James: Most people had to report to someplace on the West coast some, one Depot or another.
[14:28 - 16:04]
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: I went out of the East Coast came into Tan Son Nhut and Long Binh. Long Binh was the
fabricated metal roof shelters that everybody came in to etc. and went through a brief orientation
there, but no training. And then went from there to the 1st Signal Brigade which was actually
located in the Saigon itself.
James: So actually in the city as opposed to...
Kent: In the city.
James: Alright, what kind of facility or compounded did you have?
Kent: It was in a compound, walled compound, right in the middle of things. We did have a high
walled fence that went around it and a set of buildings inside. We ate our meals outside,
probably about 150 200 yards, because it served not only that compound but a couple other
compounds in that area. I remember it being on a major roadway between Tan Son Nhut and
Cholon PX. Why do I remember that? Because it went by the fish market, okay, which had that
very distinct kind of smell to it that I'll remember to this day.
James: And Cholon it's a neighborhood in Saigon proper?
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: It it's as you go towards downtown Saigon, right downtown Saigon okay.
James: Alright now what did your duties consist of there?
Kent: Adjutant, so basically I was doing awards, assignments, the support. I was in charge of
the hiring of our Vietnamese that worked within the compound papasans mamasans and so
forth.
James: Alright, now what did they give you. Any kind of orientation or training for that, or did
they just say here you go.
Kent: I did have a major that I reported to so he was my training and kind of a mentor in this
case. Commander was a colonel 1st Signal Brigade in this case had the billboard antennas
scattered throughout the country, and did the long haul communication from country outside of
country or outside of country inside.
James: Now, did you have experience enlisted men working under you who knew what they
were doing?
[16:05 - 18:31]
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: I had enlisted in the assignment section and in the awards section on the same building
and I had a Chief Warrant Officer 3 that was in the personnel assignment that reported to me
and the major at the same time.
James: Alright, and what kind of living quarters did you have?
Kent: We lived in what I call it not a barracks. It was a two-story building standard kind of what
you might find in the Saigon area. I remember the first couple of nights there they gave me a
mosquito netting which was terribly hot. And then sometime later I got an individual room that
had an overhead fan and while that was great because it kept the mosquitoes off you and gave
a little bit of air movement so my quarters were pretty good. There was an officer's room where
you could go in the evening and there was an NCO club we didn't go to but the NCOs could go
to. Wasn't a whole lot to do within the compound other than work. I mean at best you maybe
had a half day off during the week to get your laundry done or something of that nature. The
best trips were outside of their to Tan Son Nhut for a breakfast on a Sunday morning or
something like that and probably had the best Western omelet that I could think of at an Air
Force mess.
James: Alright, and would you go into Saigon proper much?.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: I had to go to the Cholon PX to pick up the piastre to pay for the mamasan's the papasans
and so forth. So once a week I was going down there.
James: Where were you allowed or able to go to restaurants or other things like that?
Kent: I did some of that I signed up for a Vietnamese class but I didn't have the time to pursue it
beyond that picked up a few things I had to go along with that and outside the compound yeah
there were some restaurants where you could get a Vietnamese kind of meal and go from there
I did make some trip into VungTau and other areas because we had small detachments that
supported the billboards that were located in the different provinces but I didn't get up to I Corps
didn't get up to second Corps did get down to the Delta a couple times.
James: okay and when you did travel around how did you travel.
Kent: Basically by Jeep except I made a pay run was in a lush two seater low flying craft we
skimmed over the treetops etc.
James: Alright did you have a sense that it was relatively safe to drive around the areas that you
were in.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
[18:32 - 21:23]
Kent: Pretty safe because I was always out during the daytime never out during the nighttime
we could hear the bombs being dropped as far as the b-52s were concerned I mean yeah the
windows would rattle a little bit etc. but I mean other than somebody's shooting over the wall or
through the razor wire felt pretty secure in terms of where we're at so I was very fortunate.
James: Okay now did you have were there rules about sort of where you could go and not go in
Saigon or what kinds of things you could do or not do?
Kent: Safety was always emphasized always going out with another person at that time we had
the Jeeps with the open doors nothing like what we had in Saudi Arabia or anything like that
traffic was always an issue bicycles cyclos and so forth so you had to be careful in that sense
there were the opportunist that would kind of fake an accident if you weren't careful which then
brought the MPS and an investigation and some things like that so you always traveled with
somebody else as far as the vehicle is concerned okay.
James: Mm-hmm, alright. And we're there because the amount of the enlisted were there issues
involving things like drug use or.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: I didn't notice it that much and I don't think I noticed that that much among the combat
troops but certainly in the support sectors were people who were behind in a safe area bored
and being rampant heat being high and everything like that is where I saw some of the drugs
begin to make their encroachment in terms of soldier boredom and so forth. We were pretty
much a male organization at that particular time so didn't see some of the things that we
encountered as far as Desert Storm is concerned okay.
James: But there would have been prostitution and so forth.
Kent: Yeah-
James: -in the city and that kind of thing.
Kent: Yes, right outside the gate to the compound.
James: Now was your compound sort of just for a single brigade or…?
Kent: Just for the First Signal Brigade.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: Okay and so you may have had a little bit more select group than you'd have in some of
the bigger bases or…?
Kent: I think probably so certainly as far as Long Binh was huge.
[21:24 - 23:56]
James: Okay alright. Now, did you have any kind of sense from where you were about how the
larger world was going? I mean were we successful as far as you could tell?
Kent: Well we didn't have access to CNN or anything like that that we had in Desert Storm. I
mean it's pretty much mail communication that we had at that particular time. I don't even
remember calling home when I was in Saigon and Vietnam.
James: But there were- but I guess from where you were there might be people who actually
have some idea what was actually happening in the war at the top?
Kent: Stars and Stripes was the primary means of communication.
James: Okay and you would have been there I guess when the Cambodian incursion was going
on?
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: 70, 71, so that was after Tet Offensive. Yes 68.
James: But Cambodia was set was mid nineteen seventy so.
Kent: Yeah.
James: I mean if there after that had happened.
Kent: The Ho Chi Minh Trail one, never knew where that went. Yeah, I mean it was supposed to
be in Vietnam but no it crossed the border and got in Laos got into Cambodia etc. So we heard
those kinds of stories but really didn't see anything in print.
James: Because I guess that was the big news item of 1970 was American and South
Vietnamese actually going into Cambodia to try to chase out the North Vietnamese bases. But,
so basically that kind of stuff news from the fighting or whatever was not really-
Kent: Other than what you picked up to the Stars and Stripes or something like that.
James: -Circulated where you were. Alright.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: Well we were yeah we were aware of the body count, I mean Vietnam was the body count
was in terms of success okay. So yes aware of that particular measurement as far as success
lack of success so forth.
[23:57 - 25:49]
James: And then did you have any- this is also a period of Vietnamization that is the Americans
were trying to kind of turn more to let South Vietnamese, and did that- was that anything that
you noticed?
Kent: My awareness where the montagnards were terribly helpful to us in terms of the higher
elevations etc. Certainly up in I Corps and II Corps. Vietnamization we're- we're aware of the
politics that was help happening as far as the Saigon government is concerned sometimes
successful sometimes not successful, I think we can say the same thing that's- that's happening
in Afghanistan right now. I mean depending on who you talk to what successful was working
well and you could talk to somebody a day later and say, “you know motivation was slow
couldn't depend on it,” in spite of what we were doing in terms of training and everything like
that.
James: Mm-hmm. Did you have any sense that that sooner or later this whole thing was gonna
go bust, or did you think that situation would kind of go on indefinitely?
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: I think most of those who went to Vietnam felt that we went there with a purpose. We
didn't go to Canada or anything like that, we were ordered to go there went there with the intent
of doing the best job that we could possibly do, and felt certainly as you interacted with the
Vietnamese the papasans the mamasans and so forth okay that we were there protecting the
people in terms of North Vietnam and so forth. I mean the black pajamas yeah, we were familiar
with that, we didn't really encounter that we're aware that some of that was going on and so
forth okay. My Lai was not prominent I really learned about My Lai when I came back then- then
when I was there.
James: Alright so basically for you it was simply an assignment you were in the army. You went
there, you did your job, you put in your- you do a full 12 months there?
Kent: Did a full 12 months.
James: Alright did you get an R&R at any point while you were there?
Kent: I had an R&R; but didn't have my wife come over. I went to Australia and actually took a
train up to the Blue Mountains. Stayed with a family, saw Sydney. So it was positive for me
okay.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: Totally different experience for a while.
Kent: Yes.
James: Alright so now when you come back then from Vietnam…
[25:50 - 28:29]
Kent: Then I experienced the culture in terms of what's going on back here and so forth. Literally
said, “I wanted nothing to do with this,” had my opportunity to go from a first lieutenant to a
captain. No, the culture was such was negative, not supportive. Higher education certainly
wasn't supportive of it okay. Came back and got a job with Indiana University at South Bend in
71.
James: So did you leave the military entirely?
Kent: I left it entirely.
James: Okay.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: Hung my- hung my uniform up. I mean I had the experience coming back through
Oakland and that's what it really began to hit me.
James: So what did you see there? What happens when you get back? Did you land at the
military base and then go to the airport or…?
Kent: So I was- came, landed in Oakland. Was put in a very small room. I just remember is
almost the size of a closet, and you gonna be wondering, you know, when you've got to leave
this place. It was not the place to leave at that particular time because of the culture the anger
and everything like that. So, I just stayed at Oakland base until I caught a plane. I caught a
plane back came through Chicago. I ended up in in Traverse City because that's where my wife
was with her mother and father at that particular time. She moved from Bremen Indiana up to
that area. I was terribly tanned, terribly dark had a mustache. If you would have hung a number
on the front of me you know, you would have guessed I was a criminal someplace.
James: Alright now were you in civilian clothes at this point?
Kent: I was in civilian clothes and I remember looking at my son and he broke out crying
because he didn't know who the hell this stranger was etc. Okay, so that kind of added to my
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
feelings of kind of alienation and discomfort I guess, and coming back and deciding, “I didn't
want to have anything to do with the military.”
James: Alright so then you said you took a job?
[28:30 - 30:36]
Kent: IU South Bend with the Division of Education because I had that educational kind of
background. Alton ruff, the director of the division of education at that time, came from my
particular area. It was kind of the networking that got me started there I absolutely loved it. I
think I made $12,000 a year, realized it was gonna be difficult to support a family of two at that
particular time, and said okay. About a year later I need to look at a second job and look at a
USAR Center or I could go back in as an instructor at Kingsbury Indiana near the Laporte. So,
about a year later, I did get back in as a USAR Instructor for Kingsbury.
James: They are on reserve?
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: Yep.
James: Alright.
Kent: So, we got back into the reserves for economical purposes and I was doing again
something that I enjoyed doing something was teaching.
James: Alright now was this a job switch or just a second job added on?
Kent: Well kind of instructor, kind of like adjutant-general working with people.
James: Was that a full-time job though I guess?
Kent: No that was an army reserve, because my full-time job was with IU South Bend.
James: Okay, so you still had it so you’ll be here while you're reservist, like the other ones. It's
sort of the weekend a version of the weekend work other thing.
Kent: Yep. Stayed there for one year and then heard about the Civil Affairs Unit in Kalamazoo
Michigan and made the transfer.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: Alright, now explain a little bit what that particular unit is.
[30:37 - 32:12]
Kent: Civil Affairs is, if you remember World War two, they provided the liaison the connecting
link with the military with the government with finance with education etc. I mean they were the
link between the military and we now call it host nation okay. So I saw a health team, I saw a
law enforcement team, I saw an education team, I saw an economics kind of team. I said,
“wow,” and about 40% were officers that particular company was commanded by a lieutenant
colonel so there was about 42% officers, senior enlisted and even the senior listed were well
educated and semi-professional professional people so, I saw a networking opportunity. I just
absolutely loved the unit okay. I mean I could see a veterinarian if the- if our dog was having a
problem. I can go talk to the captain. I can talk to the commander, excuse me, the- the director
of police forces in Western Michigan (okay) at Kalamazoo. I mean this was a neat unit okay. So
I loved it and worked myself up to in 90. In 90 I became the company commander and served
my three years there and I remember in November going down and now I have to look for
another position because I had homesteaded there for a long time okay. Where most people
move around from one unit to another unit to advance more quickly and everything like that. So
I managed to stay there through a number of different positions. Finally had to leave and heard
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
about the 21st TACOM, TACOM down in Indianapolis Indiana and they were aligned with a 21st
in Germany at Kaiserslautern. So their annual training would be to fall in in Germany. Whoa
said, “this is a great chance to travel and everything like that,” okay. For two years event two
summers two weeks of annual training in the summer and so forth. So I became their director
assistant chief of staff for host nation support the21st TACOM. I went in and interviewed in
November just a little bit before Thanksgiving and I remember on December 2nd or something
like that they gave me a call. I was sitting at my desk at IU South Bend and they said, “oh by the
way what is your interest in getting into the unit because we're going to be mobilized for the Gulf
War.” I said, “well I interviewed I said I was interested if you get mobilized I will go with the unit,”
and I did on December 4th. They were mobilized in 1990.
James: Ok I just want to back up a little bit. When you were talking about being with a civil
affairs unit I think you were mentioning dates in the 90’s. So you would have met dates in the
eighties or 70’s so when I got back in 70.
Kent: So 72 to 90 I was in the field civil affairs company.
James: Ok now during the time when you were with the civil affairs company did they ever send
you any place, or did you do training in any place?
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: That's an interesting question. Yes, I think our first training was to an Indian Reservation
in northern Michigan and we were staying in a school that was our housing facility. And then
working on the reservation and doing different things with Indians. I mean it could be a
construction kind of thing. It could be a- an educational kind of thing and so forth and absolutely
loved it again ok. I mean how can you go wrong with something like this. Now, also during that
time the 315th SIL Affairs company was aligned to support reforger kinds of activities and
events return of forces to Germany and during that time. Even before I got into the taycom I had
spent two weeks of annual training in Belgium and the Netherlands and in Germany which then
supported my going with the taycom which was also totally co-located with the unit and
Kaiserslautern so again thoroughly. I mean how can you get better two weeks of training. So
when I was working at IUSB I was either traveling for weekend training to Kalamazoo and when
I changed to Indianapolis I just went south the other direction and was still doing a similar kind
of thing in terms of civil affairs work.
[32:13 - 37:17]
James: Right okay, but basically during this, that extended period, you're just never mobilized or
anything like that because they didn't have any actual Wars going on.
Kent: That's right.
James: At that particular point but then…?
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: But during the Gulf War I met some of my peers out of the 315th that were mobilized, and
over in Gulf War. In fact I ran across them in Kuwait City because they were brought in via
another route and I was then working with a 21st taycom, and Nicholas Batch Lieutenant
Colonel Nicholas Batch it was a law professor at Western Michigan. A great friend of mine that I
stayed in contact with, and I met him over at the airport in Kuwait because he was there with the
415 not to 315 415 civil affairs company.
James: Alright just back around your story here. So essentially, so you join your new unit and
“oh by the way we're being mobilized.” So it's the end of 1990 and find that out okay. I kind of
pick up the story then from there so…
Kent: So we were mobilized on the 4th of December. Spent two weeks of training at home
station again Went through weapons qualification,, got a well started personnel records were
updated Did our CPR first aid training, got equipment issued to you, n-b-c equipment. Got all the
training as far as masking and everything like that. so that you were prepared for that. We didn't
take a lot of equipment with us other than personal equipment okay, and we were in- had an
advance party go over two weeks in advance of Christmas and we basically arrived about a day
before Christmas, the 25th of December.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: Alright and how do they get you out there?
Kent: We went from there to Ohio, from Ohio and out to Fort Dix, the East Coast East Coast up
through Iceland, dropped in to Spain, and from Spain then into Saudi Arabia.
James: Okay.
Kent: I see 130.
James: Alright, so military alright, and then what's your first impression then of Saudi Arabia
when you get there?
[37:18 - 39:45]
Kent: Hot. We landed at night at Dharan air base, which is probably about 15 kilometers from
where the 21st TACOM was working out of at that particular time. We were put- they had some
makeshift accommodations. Actually, they had brought in some trailers so they had- they had
five lieutenant colonels in one trailer and there was a restroom in the middle and three on one in
and two of the other and I said, “ well this is kind of crowded on this and I wonder why there's
three of us here and as vs 2 there.” Well I found out the day after Christmas that I was going to
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
go full.. So you know I was kind of the excess person with all the other Lieutenant Colonels on
that end of the trailer. After that, the trailer was traded for Khobar towers. Which is a high-rise
complex that most of the unit went into after that, and then they started putting some Kuwaiti
refugees into the trailer complex that we had so, I didn't have bad accommodations again I
wasn't living in a tent okay.
James: So were you there when the Iraqis were launching Scud missiles?
Kent: So by that time I was up at KKMC: King Khalid Military City, off of what we call Tapline
Road that kind of ran from east to west also known as MSR main supply route Dodge. It was the
road that was used to really build King Khalid Military City. King Khalid is an interesting complex
and it sits right out in the middle of the desert about 40 klicks south of Hafra-bat, which was the
main city in that particular area. Now the US engineers have the ingenuity starting in about
1974, the Saudi started looking to develop some military complexes and King Khalad Military
City was one of three, the other one was in Tabuk which is toward Jordan in the north western
part of Saudi Arabia, and one was way down south and then this one KKMC, King Khalid
Military City. King Khalid Military City had the second largest cement plant in the world. It's in the
shape of a hexagon, an elaborate structure, that was designed to support at least a brigade
from the Saudis. Actually, some would say it would hold up to three brigades. In the shape of a
hexagon underground parking, okay, had actually a hotel complex that was about four stories
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
stories high and we were in some barracks that were four to five stories high and much like a
college dorm and we had three of us to a room again. It was in the shape of figure eight, little
courtyards in the middle of that, and several of those. So the Saudi army was in that until we
deployed and they went to the field because now in August, when the Iraqis invaded Kuwait,
that now brought a brigade from Tabuk and a brigade from down south to be on the front line
with Iraq at that time. And it also took the brigade out of KKMC and put ‘em on the front line so
the barracks was empty, and that's how we managed to get in there on the day after Christmas.
James: And now what- what is your unit expecting to do?
[39:46 - 43:43]
Kent: So we’re the liaison okay. I was assistant chief of staff northern province for host nation
support. So I would liaison with General Pagones, who was the commander, then the 22nd
Support Command we went from the 21st to the 22nd in country. Okay he was a two-star in
charge of that he was promoted to a three-star Lieutenant General by Schwarzkopf January so
that he could compete and work with the two corps commanders, which was the 18thAairborne
and the 7th Corps. So by that by the time that we got there in December pretty much the 18th
Airborne was in and he was on the verge of being promoted at that particular time. The air war
started what January 16th and we were in the midst of moving the 7th Corps and at that point,
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
ok, and his main headquarters was out of Dahran. The major port was Demam, an excellent
deepwater port etc. and General Pagones said, “you know I was there a couple of weeks after
Iraq invaded on the 2nd of August,” and he told the story of operating out of the back end of a
car ready. Actually cash in his trunk, because he had about seven guys working with him, and
they brought the 18th airborne in before they brought the support. So he was well behind the
power curve in terms of support, so I was his forward up at KKMC for a host nation support. The
main was still back at Dahran and I went up there with myself and two other people. We
eventually had some more civil affairs support from the 304th. See, a group and my cell got up
to 17 people in working all host nation issue. So what's the host nation issue? Well if you want
to come up with a logistics base in the desert you had to ask for that land you just getting
couldn't go out and start parking there and start developing your support base. So we got into all
kinds of things firing ranges, log bases, Concord support centers. Actually using the main supply
routes etc. and back to KKMC. KKMC is about 18 square miles had its own airport brigade-size
well-developed was called the Emerald City because it had a fountain right in the center of it
okay. Had a hotel there, had five Mosques there, had three swimming pools there, and had
eight wells. Now the well our engineers could go down 200 feet and tap a well. The well at
KKMC was 2,000 feet deep huge, about eight inch diameter et cetera. So that's where the water
came from to support the 18th Airborne Corps the 7th Corps et cetera it was the logistics hub
with log base Bravo at KKMC.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: Now did you have Saudi counterparts to go?
Kent: Yes, oh yes. Two-star General Al-Kemy. General Al-Kemy was the commander one star
brigadier-general Shaheri was the operations guy one star Abdul Momen was the cut of the s-1
equivalent so we had the s3 the s4 the commander and the s-1 that was my liaison.
James: Alright, and what were these people like to work with?
[43:44 - 47:50]
Kent: Great, and most have been to school in the u.s. Most spoke English, but all of our
requests for host nations. Host nation support we did about 600 during the period of time that
were- though had to be written in Arabic okay. So, we got the request in English we converted it
to Arabic that was then converted it's submitted to the liaison it then went from alchemy to Abdu
Momen and somebody that had to approve it came back to us in Arabic we then transfer
transferred it into English and then got back to the unit that was making the request so there's a
story there when we first went we had access to a linguist from Special Forces it was there that
lasted about two weeks then I got a good captain that could speak and write Arabic from the
304th civil affairs group that lasted about two weeks and Pagones says Laudeman I need this
captain because he needs to write with the Egyptian Het-Battalion and a Het-Battalion is
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
something can transport an m1 tank from the port up and that was the pressure so to make sure
that that head got down to the port one day run picked up made another run back another day
and then was down for maintenance we put with it captain from the 304th C.A group that was a
linguist that could work with the Egyptians to make sure that that happens so there went my
linguist again okay now I got into a situation where I heard about sergeant Morris Kent Morris he
was a sergeant e5 he was working with a transportation company and the company needed a
four-wheel Jeep Cherokee that I had access to and I needed a linguist so it's probably the best
trade I ever made in my life I got the linguist we started submitting requests to the Saudis again
all right the things you get in to a host nation and support okay.
James: Did you get to keep this one?
Kent: I kept them and we actually put him one of their signs because I had managed to then hire
a third country national from the Sudan that we got cleared and I could put in the office to do the
translation and conversion from the English to the Arabic and submission than the Arabic back
to the English again.
James: Alright, now did the- did you have any problems with the Saudis or were they generally
helpful?
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: Saudis Ramadan started during this period of time Ramadan is one month of basically
fasting from daylight to sundown and that created some problems for us and because the
Saudis generally would then would spend the evenings with their families and festivities and of
course they got hungry they got a little bit disenchanted during the daytime etc okay were not as
easy to work with their Sunday was technically on Friday so we had to work around that they
also had the five prayer periods during the day we had to work around that we couldn't go over
and talk to our counterparts during that particular time or if we do we do well enough to cool our
heels in the office for a period of time because they went to the prayer session etc . so yeah
there were some some adjustments we had to make one of my favorite sayings was inshallah
God willing so Jonas had a stand up brief in the morning about thirty minutes where all that just
an assistant Chiefs of Staff would indicate what they're working on for the particular day what
the problems were that they saw and so forth very quick he sat down the rest of the stood up
half-hour meeting in the morning and then we had a major sit down during the evening about an
hour and a half PowerPoint slides out the wazoo I had my own and many times during that
briefing I'd say inshallah God willing we will get an answer back and be able to help you out in
terms of what the request was and so forth.
James: Alright but I guess the Saudis as far as you could tell right so happy to have us there
[47:51 - 52:23]
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: they were happy to have us on their time frame though not necessarily the army
timeframe the army timeframe wanted it done right away so one of those was one of the stories
was General Pargonas says Laudeman I heard that the Saudis had some trucks for us that we
might be able to use because we were short of transportation assets and one of my stories the
letters of the that I sent to you was yeah he heard about that so I said a Lottermen I want you to
go over and check with the general Sharia and I hear there's some trucks that might be
available to help us out because we were short I mean we had the Egyptian Ha-Battalion then
we sent the linguist with to make sure that they were working in a regular kind of way getting all
the tanks and tracks up and everything like that so I said sir follow up on it so I went over the
next day I talked to general shahuri and he says yeah I got some trucks throughout the desert
for you and he wrote me out an order he put it in the envelope and put a wax seal on it okay so
I couldn't see what it was in it was in Arabic anyhow he did that on the morning so that day we
left and headed to the desert I took Kent Morris with me he was my linguist and we thought we
knew where we were going we’re gonna go about 20 klicks this way turn left go another clicks
20 klicks see beside the road there was this tire that was in the sand at that point we were
supposed to turn right and go another couple clicks well we did that to the best of our
knowledge we came upon a Syrian camp interesting the Syrians were some of the support
forces that were part of the coalition forces there and we asked about a truck parked in the
desert we were told there's 800 trucks here well you would think that you could be able to see
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
that you know the desert was flat except for a curb down you lost sight of it okay we didn't think
it'd be that hard so the Syrians said you know go couple clicks this way and and see if you can I
think it's located there I think we ran across or something well we went two clicks and there was
an Egyptian unit there because there were Egyptian forces there too helping us out okay they
said well no we think it's over this way about to more Clicks so we went a couple more clicks
finally we ran into a compound and we were looking for a Colonel Nasser at that time now
Colonel Nasser is like Colonel Bob I mean the names you know they never used last name they
used first name so Colonel Nasser we went through barbed wire Concertina and there was a
single building sitting there probably about a 10 feet by 10 feet and with a couple of vehicles
parked outside and Constantine around the outside and there was a guard so he let us in we
parked and we went in we went to the basement here's Colonel Nasser he was watching TV
and happened to be a cartoon now there are two channels a religious channel and a cartoon
channel but he was watching the cartoon channel at that particular time he took the envelope
and gave us some shy some green coffee okay or tea had to start out with that first looked at it
and he called the captain of Gandhi and said picked it up on his phone and said captain Gandhi
come up here I want you to meet a couple of guys he came up there in about 20 minutes had
some more tea okay Galla, Shy and so forth and he says I'm gonna take you to the truck park
so we went another three kilometers into the desert and we saw some tanker trucks first and
said we're getting close and beyond the tanker trucks there was this big high burn that they had
wall dirt up around common defensive kind of perimeter etc and inside he took us in there and
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
sure enough there was this truck farm okay so we struck a deal to get 490 trucks some were we
were really looking for 18-wheelers flatbeds.
James: Mm-hmm.
[52:24 - 56:33]
Kent: to haul heavy equipment we got about 90 of those with sides about another 90 with
outsides and another a hundred and eighty or so which were straight trucks they were actually
called circus trucks because they were painted all different colors and had sides all around and
said okay we'll take the 480 trucks and he said oh by the way a hundred eighty these trucks
come with drivers so you're going to need to come back tomorrow with your transportation
people and pick up the trucks but bring along somebody else that can be the commander of the
one hundred and eighty drivers that have their own trucks and we did that the next day.
James: Where did you find the people to drive the trucks?
Kent: well it came from the transportation companies that were located in and around KKMC
because hey we were about 25,000 Strong both the Dahran, Demam and up there okay by that
time and we brought a company commander that was going to take charge of this 180 trucks
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
with drivers all third country nationals he picked them up he took him back about a month later I
saw him and he says can't don't ever do this to me again and here are the issues they came
with their own little stoves prayer rugs and so forth okay and the first thing he learned is that he
had to support them with meals well he had this morning support he had to sort out any MREs
with pork in it that makes perfect sense okay but he said you know we worked through that but
one day I didn't get them the necessary oil that they they needed and all of a sudden they pulled
their own oil plugs and drained everything out in the sand and couldn't couldn't do anything
couldn't make the well a mail delivery couldn't make the water delivery couldn't move some of
the small ammunition that we had on pallets and so forth I mean he came to a dead stop until
they got oil and that's just the way it worked so he got his trucks but he also got a headache of
problems at the same time.
James: Alright now as all of this stuff is kind of going on are you kind of paying attention to any
of the build-up toward having an actual war.
Kent: oh yes so we had access to CNN unlike Vietnam I mean we could actually see what was
being reported back stateside etc so we could tune in we were very on top of it we had the Stars
and Stripes and we also had access to a Saudi paper that was in English okay so we can see
what the Saudis were saying at the same time I was surprised because the Saudi headquarters
asked for CNN if they could have access to CNN and we sent over a female signal sergeant to
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
install it which was kind of a no-no I mean females driving trucks wearing t-shirts in Saudi Arabia
etc was a no-no culturally speaking but again the officers etc over there were pretty much
accepting because they'd been stateside they speak English and so forth all right so yes we had
more access to what was happening certainly in the Gulf War we know when the air war was
starting and we knew what was happening with the air war we know when the blues brothers
were being dropped we know when the daisy cutter' is being dropped and the thing that we
started watching in those hour-and-a-half briefings at night was the available of heat rounds for
artillery those rounds were important because they were going to penetrate the t-62s the 72s
the 52 s etc. and we're ready to go we could see that nightly but as that got up then we knew
that we're going to be close to the launch of the ground war on February 24th.
[56:34 - 60:44]
James: Alright and now wet as the ground war starts or the immediate build-up mean what
happens with you or what are you doing?
Kent: we're still filling all these requests whatever the requests might be all right and we saw
request for barrier material I mean we had this big cement plant and there were slabs of cement
there left from the construction and everything like that but the Saudis weren't willing to give that
up okay and in spite of the thing you would think that with sand you could take an entrenching
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
tool dig a foxhole it was very hard underneath that sand so we were engaged in getting Saudi
equipment back holds bulldozers anything like that that would help the units that were located
either within KKMC itself or even on the outside of that I mean everybody was fearing a threat at
that particular time and I wanted to do as much barrier developing as they possibly could so we
were engaged in all that stuff.
James: In your story now to the point where the attack or the…
Kent: So we could see the ground war was imminent and we had the briefing that we could
follow and see what Schwarzkopf and other commanders down at Riyadh were kind of thinking
we got good feedback on the air war that had started on what January 16th we knew that they
were bombing deep and now we could see those targets beginning to come closer and closer
and so forth okay and we were starting to get some inclinations that there were some desertions
that were happening okay about 35 Iraqis were showing up here and there now that led to
another issue in EPW camps and all of a sudden we had the 800 MP brigade show up which
then brought okay I need land I equipment for a wall I need razor well I need tenting I need
cooking stuff I need hygiene stuff I mean that just started a whole doubt huge of needs that we
turned to the Saudis to try to help them out because they didn't bring it with him so we were just
in perpetually we were just one issue after another issue depending on what was happening at
the particular time.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: Okay and then what happens? Then when the ground war actually begin.
Kent: So now the ground war starts okay and now we realize wow it's a million meals a day to
keep this going it's six million gallons of jp4 and diesel and Bo gas to keep this going it's
ammunition are we going to get it there quick enough it's the unit with the right hook the air
board is going a hundred kilometers 160 kilometers in a day and all of a sudden we got log
[60:45 - 63:53]
bases far forward but is it going to be able to reach okay the unit's now that are moving that fast
so it's a rush to move everything forward water fuel food are we're gonna need replacement
parts I mean if we don't have to worry about barrier material anymore cuz we're moving so
damn fast okay we don't even have to think about that but now now what are you gonna do with
the dead we had a grave battalion that was located at KKMC graves and registration battalion
and here's a side bar we didn't know how many casualties were going to have I mean this was
the mother of all wars this is 500,000 Iraqis on one side and almost 200,000 combat but
500,000 on the other side that's going to clash at where we've got these trenches dug and oil
that's there and everything like that okay and what are we going to do with casualties and are
we prepared for the casualties and all of a sudden the Saudis come online and said what are we
going to do with Iraqi casualties because we have a tremendous responsibility for our own
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
casualties and how it works from the company back to the battalion to the division to the Corps
and out of country and a KKMC the great Battalion was out of country as soon as possible that
is a primary mission and a core value as far as the u.s. is concerned so we pray we try to press
that upon the Saudis what are we going to do with the Iraqi casualties okay whether it's in Iraq
across the line perhaps perhaps in Saudi Arabia where we gonna have to take care of and so
forth so we come up we've got to come up with a equivalent kind of Saudi company with some
platoons to do that so in about two days we're working that with the Saudis they took a band
unit of Saudis and converted it to a platoon of Saudis okay now you got to have the trucks you
gotta have the back hose you got to have the wipe wrapping material what are you going to do
and so forth and we were making great progress we were ready to launch that group and all of a
sudden Saudis say hey I can't cross the line between our country and Iraq and we don't
necessarily want to bury them because they've feared that the Iraqis would find them and make
it an incident etc okay so we have that great fear hanging over a head as well as we had three
evacuation hospitals locator to KKMC the Emerald City was such it had an eight-story hospital
so the three evac’s were located all around it using the resources there etc. I mean this was
huge this is a mother of all battles that was going to happen on about a 300 mile front here right
in front of us not more than sixty to a hundred kilometers from us so we have all of those things
that we were working through okay ground war okay we're going the AirCam pen is damaged as
much as it can we've seen it we've watched it we see it's getting closer and closer EPW’s start
to show up we got the 800th MP brigade in here the start and develop forty five thousand
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
EPW’s is expected over around KKMC and also further to the west now we got to start thinking
about refugee camps okay because all of a sudden we've got deserters beginning to show up
so that's huge on top of the supply mission and we're working all of this to the best of our
capability at that particular time so we launch now we got to keep the fuel going the water going
and everything like that okay we had probably a hundred buses from the Saudis because to
move the troops forward they didn't have enough military assets on their own we brought only
one bus back after the brown war because they had ground them into the sand and everything
that was going forward okay was designed now to bring back our own casualties as necessary
but all of a sudden we had all these EPW’s that we're being brought back on anything that was
a supply
[63:54 - 68:46]
nature where we took the flatbed forward with the ammunition and everything like that well
they're coming back empty okay but now hey we had EPW just corralled in the sand in the
desert and a couple of soldiers watching over them waiting to be picked up I mean that's what
was happening behind the battle lines in that particular time there was always something going
on that needed attention and support as much as we could get from the Saudis the Saudis
basically paid for everything in country we had to keep track of it though okay all those buses all
those trucks ect. They paid for now the trucks where did the trucks come from they were all
consigned for by the Saudis so they moved the coalition forces first and they were then sitting in
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
the truck farm and that's why they were offered to the US because we were late coming into the
theater with a 7th Corps and trying to move supplies forward ok but they're all contracted and
that 180 they were privately owned by the the third country national driver of that particular truck
so in spite of everything you know looking like a war it was still contracting payments and
everything like that going on at the same time. Did I lose you?
James: No, No. So the shooting war only lasted a few days.
Kent: So 100 our war okay now now we have the problem in Basra with the Shiites ok fearing
Sunnis and Saddam ect. Okay and now we had refugee needs that were starting to develop
okay and the next thing that was happening after the 100-hour war we put the tents up at
Southwind when Schwartzkopf went up there to negotiate the end to it etc okay provided the
security for it so some more logistics kinds of things happening okay so now the 100-hour war
ends we're trying to stabilize things in southern Iraq with the 1st armored division the first
entered division etc ok and as things begin to quiet down now what happens it's Katie bar the
door because the US wants to get at soldiers home so redeployment becomes our top issue
and at the same time that that's happening we have the issue happening with the Kurds way up
north so now we're flying some of that supplies tentage water MRI’s okay that we didn't use we
build up about 45 days worth of supply we use three days worth or a hundred hours worth and
now we're starting to ship that stuff up to northern Iraq to support the Kurds so we got another
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
logistics mission that's happening at the same time that we're trying to now move the 18th
Airborne Corps out and the seventh Corps out ok so here's another story 1st Armored Division
comes back they got a redeployment area that's 20 by 25 kilometer square huge area before
they can send their equipment to the port they've got to clean it this is U.S agricultural kind of
requirement ok which means you need water you need water you need water you always need
water so what happens in their 20 by 25 kilometer square area they had a Saudi that they had
contracted who had a private well of his own and there was also a well in a small Saudi Vale
that village that had about probably 15 huts in it ok they were more than a hut not a Tin Hunt or
anything like that it was substantial mud and so forth ok so the first Armored Division had
promised to repair the well that had broken remember this is two thousand feet deep ok and in
the meantime he had a private well that was outside the little village and the 1st Armored
Division had sent over some guys to put down a fifty thousand dollar bag and start drawing
[68:47 - 73:24]
water off of it and he got angry because they weren't repairing the well that was part of the deal
ok so all of a sudden Kent Morris and I go out there he's my linguist and we find four guys over
here with ak-47 Saudis and over on this side is four guys with m16s and each claiming the bag
the water etc and the guy saying I'm not gonna pump anymore till you start paying me and the
us saying hey we need it never going to take it so we went out and a day later we cut a contract
for thirty thousand riyals a month it's about eight thousand dollars a month to draw that
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
water okay he started out at a hundred and twenty thousand riyals a month okay the Saudis
knew when they had somebody that they could make some money off oh I mean that was the
bad thing about host nation and contracting is the doggone cost kept going up every time he
went back and he needed more it had doubled it had tripled and we needed to bring the Saudis
in to find out what's a reasonable rate for whatever is involved whether it's water whether it's
fresh fruits and vegetables whether it's bread I mean you lived on MREs for about 30 days and
then you know that was a morale Buster so we had to get the fresh fruit water and everything
like that that we got from the Saudis we got them from the Saudis okay at a cost at a cost.
James: so how long did you wind up spending in Saudi Arabia then?
Kent: I was there too I got back in June and by that time we had brought into into Saudi Arabia
400,000 short tons of ammunition we only used 50,000 short tons so short we had 350,000 tons
to clean up pack up and ship back okay we had firing ranges before we launched the ground
war where they did practice in the desert and there was unexploded ordnance that didn't
explode when they fired at downrange and to this day I know that some camel herder or
bedowin is going to stumble on that blown to hell okay there then we had to bring in the legal
team we had to solve that particular issue pay the amount at etc. I mean during during the buildup we had almost 25 vehicles passing a single point in a minute on Tapline Road which is MSR
Dodge and at one time during the buildup we were losing almost a soldier a day to a traffic
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
accident part of that was due to the inexperienced Saudi drivers they drove like a teenager
excuse me if you were on a two-lane highway and going too slow they’d just cut to the desert
went around okay we didn't have enough MPs to put all over the place so it's a dangerous place
to be and one time the,slogan when the briefing slide was what not one more soldier that we
were losing to a traffic accident because of the high intensity as far as supporting the troops the
two cores are out there plus the British division was out there the French division was out there
coalition forces were out there all using the same two lane highway MSR dodge.
James: Now did things eventually wind down for you or…?
Kent: when I left we were trying to move everything out okay including all the equipment came
in the ammunition that came in and everything like that okay so we're beginning to wane down
it's all coming back to KKMC except we were going to put a brigade size unit in Kuwait so in that
case we were cleaning up the equipment to move it to a new base and that was gonna become
[73:25 - 77:38]
a support base in Kuwait just outside of Kuwait City in the event Saddam decided to do
something again the Shiites that were still in southern Iraq because that hadn't settled down all
together okay so when I left we still had a host nation office that was still working in supporting
the Redeployment in terms of moving equipment out and so forth move the personnel out first
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
then we moved the equipment out etc okay I mean you the ammunition dump that we had you
couldn't even see to the end of it I mean just stacked up and it came in at a pallet but by the
time it came back though came back in vehicles the pallets were broken so it had to be cleaned
up had to be repalletized then reloaded put her on to an 18-wheeler ship back to the port loaded
back up on the ship and taken out again okay we had we had 20-foot and 40-foot containers
stacked double and triple high in the desert okay got in too late.
James: Now, did your unit go out together or did you leave individually or…?
Kent: so we came we had an advance party that came in that was I think about the six strong
early December then the main unit was a hundred and fifty they came in before Christmas and
then we came out in May most of us came out in May early June we left behind though a fairly
sizable cell of about twenty thirty some of those were volunteers that came from other units that
augmented the 21st TACOM that was working with the 22nd because the movement took place
for another year to get stuff out of country so there were some volunteers that stayed well after
that yeah.
James: Alright because yours was a reserve unit and there is an expectation that they get to go
back home.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: Yeah we thought we thought it would be over at about two months right I was listening to
this story earlier here in Korea they thought it was gonna be quick well I remember Pagones
getting up on a stage and saying you know you longings are gonna be here in the last out he's
absolutely right.
James: Now did you get into Kuwait yourself?
Kent: I was in Kuwait several times
James: What were you doing there?
Kent: we had in the hospital it's about 300 patients those three M evac hospitals the Iraqis came
across the line because they got hurt and things like that I mean that kept hitting the units all
along so we had a build up of 300 patients in the evac hospitals that was located there KK MC
and we did one bus trip back to softmod which was up through Kuwait and then into southern
Iraq we also did what about 18 Chinook lifts of which about we had about 24 Iraqis each and
[77:39 - 80:43]
getting because the evac Hospital couldn't leave until excuse me the patients were cleared out
some didn't want to go back okay so wanted to claim asylum and so forth that was a whole
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
other issue that we had to work through so yes probably Highway one where a A-10 shot up the
highway and just terrific desert action I mean you could smell that when you drove through there
and I was through there about two days afterwards okay work in that particular area is
devastating I mean the number of vehicles everything that was on the vehicles and everything
like that.
James: now were there also oil fires?
Kent: oh yes yep so you drove through a black region I mean it was just like night so our guys
our guys were exposed to plutonium as far as the ammunition is concerned they were exposed
to pesticides because we used a lot of pesticides in the desert there they were exposed to the
oil fires that were there so I don't know what's going to come out of the Gulf War when we really
start to look at 10 15 years later like we looked at Agent Orange coming out of Vietnam and so
forth okay it's hard to say.
James: and that's independent of any kind of chemical or biological agents the Iraqis might have
had someplace or whatever
Kent: yeah yeah
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: at the same time all right now thought you would talked about you know your being in
Saudi Arabia and so forth and being able to see the news and that kind of stuff did you have
more personal communication with home and you would have in Vietnam
Kent: oh yes I might also share with you I think we left a million dollar telephone bill because we
figured out how we could direct down the home without but now if you were unit in the sand I
mean you had the the phone banks there etc. okay but remember we were inside the Emerald
City okay this is this is a well developed area so personally I knew where I could go to find a
phone and I could direct dial home the only thing I had to watch was the eight hour difference
between home and us now we didn't abuse it but everybody on the team could have to call back
at least once okay so that was much different much different.
James: Alright now when you do leave that what's the physical process of getting out where do
you fly out of and where do you go?
Kent: So KKMC we went back down to Dahran, Dahran we loaded on a plane a civilian plane in
this case it wasn't a c-130 I remember I don't remember where we stopped but we flew directly
in to Indianapolis in this case so not the East Coast not the West Coast I mean family
[80:44 - 83:41]
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
was there waiting when we came in etc and it was Katie bar the door nobody wanted to hang
around the center any longer than you have to just a quick debriefing safety instruction go out
on leave and then come back and you start working on what you need to do as far as reports
are concerned and so forth all right very pleasant.
James: Kind of a contrast to coming back from Vietnam.
Kent: yes the 180 again just a complete different.
James: Okay so what kind of cleanup then did you have to do once you got back you have to
have a lot of worked a lot of paperwork to do?
Kent: Not bad at all because we didn't take any heavy equipment transportation wise over with
us so it's mainly personnel equipment after-action reports doing things of that nature lessons
learned we always had lessons learned I always say lessons forgotten because they got written
down and it seemed like it always came up two years later and said did we just go through this
nut throw but people change and that's what happens they don't necessarily read the afteraction report or the lessons learned or things change in terms of the equipment and everything
like that I mean when we went to Operation Joint Endeavor 95 96 I mean we commuted
communicated by the internet I mean that's how we came through those three different kinds of
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
things I mean that was just that absolutely amazing I was still communicating with IUSB in terms
of my work role via the Internet at that time.
James: So you’re back in 91 then you have… things are relatively quiet for four years?
Kent: For about four years I still at IUSB in 95 the balloon goes up for operation Joint Endeavor
the mobile I the unit gets mobilized again not 150 I want to say about 80 or 90 we fell in on
Kaiserslautern at that particular time and we the main operating base was out of Kaiserslautern
Germany and we had a forward log unit at the end of the rail line in Hungary because we were
now moving stuff out of Germany down to Hungary and then from Hungary on into Serbia
Kosovo etc Croatia okay.
James: So this is all peacekeeping and what used to be Yugoslavia the other support.
Kent: Yeah again a very safe environment long missions now I'm working with the Germans the
Austrians and the Hungarians and a liaison kind of way to make sure the rail lines are open
making sure that we have convoy clearances in terms of moving stuff via the highway and
everything of that nature so again in a very safe kind of environment protective kind of
environment working with the host nation solving problems keeping things moving etc I mean I
couldn't ask for anything better again okay.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
[83:42 - 86:43]
James: Alright were there notable differences between how the Germans Austrians Hungarians
worked or was it fairly seamless?
Kent: W ell the Germans were very well prepared because remember we had reforger and
return of forces to Germany during the Cold War then we had reforger where we moved
everything out of Germany okay the seventh Corps down to Saudi Arabia so a lot of experience
there okay and and prepositioned equipment and Germany and everything like that where we
had nothing pre position as far as the Saudis were concerned so we had that experience
coming out of Germany again in supporting operation Joint Endeavor and the liaison were just
excellent okay I mean they knew the inside and the out the Australian liaison officer know who
to contact to get the convoy clearance if there was any problem along the road and everything
like that again just tremendous professional and personnel in a counterpart kind of way okay at
all military okay but the military knew who would contact in a civilian kind of way.
James: Right. Within Austria or Hungary, was it different there.
Kent: No same thing.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: Okay.
Kent: Great liaison again the only thing is in Hungary we jammed so much in terms of the rail
they didn't have time to unload it we backed up the trains when we're starting bad.
James: Now I guess if you and then that's getting right down to the point pretty much where you
rule.
Kent: so 96 I come back third deployment or third combat area not quite so close combat each
one of those times I am at IUSB and IUSB is a little bit unsung with me now they I got pulled out
twice as a professional person there and we all understand the laws and everything like that but
that puts a tremendous strain on the office that you're trying to run and everything like that okay
I kind of felt like I had out warned my welcome there I always refer to myself when I got
mobilized for Desert Storm but I was a closeted reservists most of the professors there the staff
there didn't know that I was participating or anything like that so they were utterly surprised and
I guess that was part of my education is to write the letters home from the Gulf and kind of
educate him a little bit more on what a reservist does when he's mobilized and so forth okay so I
came back in 96 assuming my same job again kind of associate dean for student services and
registrar and I had applied part of that to West Point for registrar's and an assistant dean kind of
position but I didn't make it any place and they hired in person kind of thing I learned later so the
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
second time I said I'm gonna give this another shot but I downplayed my military bio because
the first time I did play my military bio with West Point you'd think that'd be a positive right so I
[86:44 - 89:50]
downplayed that work more on the civilian part of it. Got invited to an interview and they were
pleasantly surprised to hear my military background as I went through the committee and was
shown around and everything like that and that went well I mean in 97 I was headed then in
June to United States Military Academy stayed there for thirteen years and absolutely loved
every year of it okay put me back in higher education again I had the adult student so I had
missed the maturity of the adult student and had pretty much the 18 to 21 year old and some
immaturity I shouldn't say that okay but great students cadets again but a different kind of cadet
okay so I was back working in higher education absolutely loved it again okay teaching
leadership course psych course and so forth and then stayed there for 13 years to 2010.
James: So you're doing that then through 9/11 and through..
Kent: I'm a civilian though I'm a civilian in a military setting okay because I hit my mandatory
retirement date after 28 years so and I hit that the same year 97 that I went to West Point so I
went in as a civilian
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
James: Right so what was the response at West Point to 9/11.
Kent: well that was devastating and I remember sitting at my desk when we saw the first thing
happening on TV and it impacted it impacted many parents that were connected to the towers
and had son or daughter Westland I mean that's where you really felt it but in addition to that a
lot of the firemen and the policemen didn't live in Manhattan proper they lived upstate you know
an hour and a half two hours away because of the cost of living and oh by the way if you're a
policeman or fireman you went down for three shifts you could work the 3 shifts you had a place
to stay you come back to the community etc so some of the local communities really got hit hard
in terms of firemen and policemen so that was a second whammy during 9/11 so it's not only
the Academy but the small community fort Montgomery that we lived in or the surrounding
communities there that we really felt the impact of that and that's where our security went up at
at West Point and all of a sudden you didn't have enough MPs to put on the front gate in an
extended kind of way and so the Dean at one star was out there pulling security at the front gate
we were pulling security there any military was pursuing security civilians helped out kind a way
and I remember the Dean coming back one night and saying boy you never want to be on duty
when the hockey team comes back because their bags are really strong there's a lot of little
stories like that that you know you'd never hear any place else but just kind of humanizes
everything that happens and what happened after 2010 ok I’m on social security by nowI’m
getting older maybe it's time to retire and Diane wanted to come back at that particular time so I
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
came back spent a year we built a new house but the whole Walker lower basement was
undeveloped I said well that's going to be my task for a year so 125 sheets of sheetrock 10 foot
high so forth I have totally immersed myself in that took my lunch back into the basement
worked hard there and I literally flunked retirement I flunked retirement and I was serving on a
[89:51 - End]
committee at at the alcohol addictions and Resource Center in South Bend and I had served on
when I was with IUSB on the board of directors went back I showed my resume there and
Steve Camilleri the executive director for the center of the homeless on my resume and say hey
you know we're opening up a center a 24 bed Center for homeless veterans and he talked me
into that okay so in 2012 I became a 2011 the end of 2011 I became the director of the Robert
Miller Veterans Center for homeless veterans of 24 bed facility and I've been there since almost
5 plus years
James: it was that South Bend
Kent: that's in South Bend.
James: Alright yeah well there are worse ways to flunk retirement I think.
�Grand Valley State University Veterans History Project
Oral History Interview
Veteran: Kent Laudeman
Interviewed by James Smither
Transcribed by Chad Hitchcock
Kent: It keeps me busy, it gets me out of the house I think.
James: Alright well thanks for a pretty remarkable and unusual story. different thank you very
much for taking the time.
Kent: Thank you for what you're doing with veterans okay.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Veterans History Project
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Grand Valley State University. History Department
Description
An account of the resource
The Library of Congress established the Veterans History Project in 2001 to collect memories, accounts, and documents of U.S. war veterans from World War II and the Korean War, Vietnam War, and conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, and to preserve these stories for future generations. The GVSU History Department interviews are part of this work-in-progress, and may contain videos and audio recordings, transcripts and interview outlines, and related documents and photographs.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1914-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Afghan War, 2001--Personal narratives, American
Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981--Personal narratives, American
Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Michigan--History, Military
Oral history
Persian Gulf War, 1991--Personal narratives, American
United States--History, Military
United States. Air Force
United States. Army
United States. Navy
Veterans
Video recordings
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives, American
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James
Boring, Frank
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/455">Veterans History Project interviews (RHC-27)</a>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-27_LaudemanK2133V
Title
A name given to the resource
Laudeman, Kent (Interview transcript and video), 2017
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-06-20
Description
An account of the resource
Kent Laudeman was born in 1943 in Bremen, Indiana. After graduating high school, he attended college to avoid the draft for seven years, but was eventually drafted into the Army in 1968. He completed both basic and advanced training at Fort Dix, New Jersey, before being sent to Fort Jordan, Georgia, for MLS training and then Fort Ben Harrison for basic officer training. In August of 1970, Laudeman was deployed to Vietnam for only a year. Due to his struggles supporting a family, he went to USAR in Kingsbury as an on-reserve instructor and, at the end of 1990, was called to action in Saudia Arabia in KKMC (King Kalaat Military City). After a year in KKMC, he returned to the states until 1995, when he was brought to Hungary for Project: Joint Endeavor. In 1996, he returned to the United States after his last deployment.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Laudeman, Kent
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Smither, James (Interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Personal narratives, American
United States. Army
Oral history
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
United States--History, Military
Veterans
Video recordings
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Veterans History Project collection, RHC-27
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="https://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University Libraries, Special Collections & University Archives, 1 Campus Drive, Allendale, MI, 49401.
Relation
A related resource
Veterans History Project (U.S.)
Language
A language of the resource
eng
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/95f4042aceb43dd832104fff832dff0b.jpg
92335ecae7aa9d3aa28654ea907cf9c3
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Robert H. Merrill photographs
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1909/1950
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-222
Description
An account of the resource
Photographs, negatives, and lantern slides digitized from the papers of engineer and archaeologist Robert H. Merrill. A Grand Rapids native, Merrill held an accomplished career as a civil engineer. He founded the company Spooner & Merrill, which held offices in Grand Rapids and Chicago. From 1919-1921, Merrill lived in China, working as Assistant Principal Engineer on a reconstruction of the Grand Canal - the oldest and longest canal system in the world. Merrill became fascinated by archaeology, and among other projects, he traveled to the Uxmal Pyramids in Yucatan, Mexico, with a research expedition from Tulane University. Merrill's photo collection includes images of his travels and projects, friends and family.
Still Image
A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Merrill_EastmanAlbum_2_1909-1911_031
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1910-07-23
Title
A name given to the resource
Launch Saugatuck piers
Description
An account of the resource
Black and white photograph of boat launch at piers in Saugatuck, Michigan. The name "Imp" can be seen on the side of the boat. Five people (two men and three women) are sitting in the boat, and two people (men) are standing on it.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Boats
Saugatuck (Mich.)
Michigan
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Robert H. Merrill papers (RHC-222)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In Copyright
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
image/jpg
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Merrill, Robert H., 1881-1955
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/3778970e7b323fdddfbc7f2e7d3833bf.mp4
2c2678b17b05df2ab6ff655206cef89c
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/a053a58f4ee5da672fa92f8d82df1e90.pdf
e80711672394d88ff4762f5d9a1fd89a
PDF Text
Text
Living With PFAS
Interviewee: Laura Facciolo
Interviewer: Dani DeVasto
Date: July 21, 2021
DD: I’m Dani DeVasto and today, July 21st, 2021 I have the pleasure of chatting with Laura
Facciolo. Hi Laura.
LF: Hello. Good morning.
DD: Can you tell me about where you’re from and where you currently live?
LF: I’m living in Italy- in the northeast of Italy, where there is a region named Veneto. So
Veneto is- we have Venice that is the main city for us.
DD: And how long have you lived there?
LF: Since I was born, so nearly 43 years. [chuckles]
DD: Thank you. Laura, can you tell me a story about your experience with PFAS or with PFAS
in your community?
LF: Yes, so I started having some information regarding PFAS [per- and polyfluoroalkyl
substances] in 2017 in the early spring, because there were people saying that some teenagers
near to our province- I’m living in the province of Padua- and in the province of Vicenza there
were tests done on teenagers. And these tests were blood tests in order to find out some unknown
compounds that were having very difficult names, and these compounds were PFAS. We were
very worried because the information that we were receiving was not official information, so
where- this information was not coming from official ways but was coming from other people
that were knowing- I don’t know- friends or others living in that area. And they were saying that
these compounds were present in the aquaduct, and the same aqueduct was also serving us. So
even if we were not immediately involved in this blood test we were obviously worried because
we were in the identical situation in terms of aqueduct.
And what we immediately started to think was about our kids because these preliminary tests
were as I said, done on the teenagers. So we were obviously worried about our kids and what
was done at school, because many of us are having kids that are going to school where they also
had lunch and were in the last years. It was told to us and told to the children that the best
possible water we drink is the- let’s say- major water, so the water that was coming from the
aqueduct and this was also advertised a lot in order not to use plastic bottles and so on. So we
immediately stopped using aqueduct water. Also to cook pasta that you know, as an Italian is
present a lot in- yes, in our food and our- what we are cooking.
But we were worried because the kids when they were at school- they were also having lunch
1
�there and everything was cooked with aqueduct water. So again we started writing to our
managers in order to have some information because no doctor was available and no
information, nothing—also our physicians were not informed at all. And when we also after 1 or
2 months- when we also started receiving the invitations in order to go and get these blood tests
done, our physicians were not aware of anything.
And so the first- I would say that- the first 3 to 4 months were passed in order- doing a lot of
meetings with each other in order to gain information between citizens living in the free
provinces that are impacted by this pollution. And we finally understood that there was- there isa company that is based in the Vicenza- near Vicenza. And this company named the Miteni- in
this moment now is closed- was producing these compounds since- 40 years at least and was
discharging everything in a small river that is in contact with the groundwater. And unfortunately
what happened is that we had a so-called free lather of contamination, because we- of water
contamination- because the groundwater was contaminated- fully contaminated- and the
superficial water- that is rivers and more rivers- were contaminated and the aqueduct water was
contaminated also because the aqueducts are taking water from the groundwater that it’s in. And
just to give you an idea, the groundwater that is contaminated is containing the same water of the
Garda Lake, that is the biggest lake that we have in Italy.
DD: Wow.
LF: And it is the second aquifer in terms of dimensions in Europe. Unfortunately this is
completely contaminated by these compounds. So what happened is that we discovered after
months that we were not aware of anything as citizens, but actually information about this
contamination was available in 2013, because there was a study that was done in Europe I think.
And it was down after the institutions had heard about the Ohio disaster, the New Bond disasterso they decided to test all the rivers in Europe, and this study lasted 2 years. And it’s called the
PERFORCE [Perfluorinated Organic Compounds in the European Environment] study. And they
found out the levels of PFAS in the rivers of all Europe. What happened is that they found out
that Po river- that is the biggest river in Italy and is in the north- was having a level of
contaminants that was 10 times bigger than the 2nd most contaminated European river, that is the
Thames.
DD: Wow.
LF: And so they did another study in order to find out what was the- from where these
compounds were arriving. So this study was done in Italy and only in Italy, obviously, in order to
try to understand what was contaminating the Po River. And they finally understood that- there
was the 99% of compounds coming from this company. Unfortunately this was not shared with
the citizens, with the relation that was continuing to drink the aqueduct river, to use also to growthe groundwater in order to- for example- for their, yes, for vegetables or fruits that we’re having
in the gardens. And so they decided that- we discovered later that they had decided to put some
filters in the aquaduct in order to- lowering down the levels of the compounds, at more or less at
500 nanograms per liter, but this was- this level of 500 nanograms per liter was not really
decided on the basis of safety or-. It was more or less what they were about to do with the filters.
2
�So after more or less the end of 2013, we were able to have a lower level, but again it was too
high for us. And then- we were angry when we discovered that they did not inform us at all and
that they simply started to do tests on people without informing the physicians that were also
enabled to rate these cleaning sites. Obviously when these things happen, luckily you are not
alone, so not all people are having- I don’t know- the strength most of the time to do something,
but we were lucky because we found out after months other parents that were worried. So as I
said, we started to meet and to speak and to start going to managers, to the president of the
region, and going to Rome and going to Brussels in order to find out solutions. So, almost at the
end of 2017, we had a confirmation and then we whistled so that a second- there were other
filters- so a second kind of filters was applied to the aqueducts in order to reduce the level to a so
called technical zero that is more or less 5 nanograms per liter because this is the threshold under
which the- yes, the company providing the aqueduct water are arriving with their detecting
techniques.
That is again not zero for us, so even if now they are saying that things are not solved. Actually
this situation is not solved at all. First of all because Meteni is closed. Metini is a company that
was obviously in contact with the group that was in contact with the scammers. And so they were
perfectly aware of what they were managing, because there was a lot of correspondence between
all these companies and they- were perfectly knowing what they were causing. And they had also
paid a company that- in order to start- let’s say- having an idea on the cost for remediation of all
the plans. And at the end they discovered that the costs in order to remediate the soiled water was
bigger than the company level. So the company was sold for 1 euro to another company, the so
called ICG [Intermediate Capital Group] company that is based in Luxembourg for 1 euro. And
they continued to do what they were doing and in the last years, you know, I told you that the
PERFORCE study was done and then the other study in order to find out all the contaminants in
the Po River was done. And the results were available not to the public, but to institutions in
2013.
So in 2014 the institution provided the approval to this company to work on disposal waters
coming from the Netherland Chem Wash in order to- let’s say- they were working on those
discharge waters that were used to produce a new PFOS compound that’s named GenX. So they
were working on them, on these waters in order to concentrate GenX and be able use, again,
these compounds. And this approval was given in 2014, so it’s incredible because we- they were
knowing, they were applying filters at that time we were not aware of anything, but they were
doing this very costly- these very expensive things done in the aqueducts and they were a few
months later getting approval to work on GenX. And again we discovered this later, because we
only started in 2017 and the most- you say- what happened- the majority of people were saying
to us we were only generating honor with no reason because the water was not safe.
And during the official meetings with institutions they were telling us that the water was safe,
that the pregnant women and the children may have drunk it without problems. But we have 2
studies done in this area- so the so-called red area, in terms of this triple level of contamination,
that demonstrate that a lot of women here are having a lot of troubles during pregnancies. There
are a lot of babies that are lost during pregnancies and babies that- so we have both problems in
terms of during the pregnancies and then we are also having problems with the newborns that are
having a low birth weight.
3
�So, for example, there are a lot of small gestational age newborns having mouth formations and
so on. So., two studies are confirming this. Unfortunately, these studies are not linking- were
done in- were comparing the situation here with the situation in another Venetal area that is not
impacted by PFAS. But they did not do the PFAS tests on moms and newborns unfortunately.
Also because they- unfortunately there is no- there is still and- there was and there is still a big
problem because they are not willing to show the truth as it is and show the causal relationship
with this. I would simply say if PFAS were not the responsible- are not responsible for what is
happening to pregnant women and newborns, what is the cause of this?
And this is also only 1 of the effects because we have other studies that were done in order to
find out if there is a difference in terms of mortality in our area. And a study that was conducted
here shows there are more than 1000 people that were- died - and let’s say it was considered as
an axis of mortality, respect to other areas of Veneto region. So why this 1 in 1000 people died?
And what is the reason that caused this axis of mortality if not PFAS?
So, we are now discovering that not only water unfortunately is contaminated, we found out that
the most contaminated people were the ones who were growing food in their gardens- vegetables
and the fruits- or were also having- yes, animals. These people are having the highest levels of
contamination in their lives. So there were studies conducted on the food- we were- there were 2
different studies done in 2015 and 2017. In order to have the results of the study done in 2017 we
started asking to region immediately to share with us the results. What happened is that they
were not providing us the results. So we were forced to have the help of a lawyer and to ask -to
have a trip law- I don’t have the English translation for this. We needed to go to a higher level,
and we won this case. And they provided us this results in May this year. And these are not very
good results. And so we are now studying them with experts and enrolling experts in order to
find out the risk that is associated with the results that we are seeing and that we find and we
have received. On the other end we are also obviously involved in the trial against the company,
because in the meantime there was a trial that was initiated against the managers that were
managing the company that caused this disaster. We are involved as civil parties so we are only
providing our help to the institute in order to find out the truth and in order to have these people
so they get people paid for what was done. And obviously the main problem is the soil and the
groundwater is still fully contaminated and so everything is now, lets say, flushing and going
into the adriatic sea, so, near venice because they’re either is let's say receiving the water is nowis then going into the Adriatic sea for example they found out very high levels of PFAS in the
fish. So if unfortunately we still know that there are today no satisfying technologies in order to
destroy these compounds because they are very strong, the bond that is within carbon and
fluoride is very strong and in order to be destroyed it needs temperatures that are higher than one
thousand degrees centigrade. At least the old soil should be kept somewhere and waiting to have
new technologies in the future in order to destroy them it seems for example that there are some
bacteria that can do this kind of or some vegetables that can destroy this bond, but these are still
experimental technologies. But, again keeping all this soil there is continuing to -it means that it
is continuing to since this soil is in contact with the groundwater is continuing to contaminate the
water, the water is then contaminating the rivers, the water of the rivers is then used in the in
order to give water to the vegetables ETC. Something needs to be done and has not been done
yet on this level and moreover we found out that for example all the filters that are used in order
4
�to to lower down the levels of PFAS in the aqueducts are filters that are made by GAC so they
are then reutilized, lets say, reused. So the process, the technology that is used in order to be
able to use again the compounds that are in the filters is to, lets say, eat them, the direct result of
these is that the compounds that are lets say, absorbed into these filters. When they are coming to
higher temperatures, they are simply passing into the air they are not so the bond between carbon
and fluoride is not broken, because it needs very high temperature and immediate high
temperature. Because if you are heating it very slowly, these filters, what happens is that the
compounds simply is detached from the filter and then it goes into the air, so,we have another
level of contamination is coming from the air because they are trying to do this to the filters that
are used for the aqueducts, and so, everyday we are discovering new things what we are doing
now is to so- , i'm not using aqueduct water anymore unless for doing shower and, i'm not- let's
say, i'm not cultivating anything in my garden i'm not even giving this kind of water to my dog.
DD: Mhm
LF: I had a german shepherd in the past, at the age of nine, she died full of cancers and we were
not aware why she was having these very terrible cancers everywhere, because she was relatively
young and when I brought her to the - Yesterday where did I oh- to the doctor we say.
DD: To the Vet?
LF: Yes, to the vet he told me that there were a lot of dogs in the same situation and I
immediately I remember perfectly what he told me, It is the water. And I was not aware at the
moment, I discovered some months later what was happening so my dog now is drinking
[chuckles] bottled water and to cook also I am cooking- cooking the pasta with bottled water.
We are working a lot, too much I would say and doing a lot of meetings because now we are a
very big group, we have a web page, we have a facebook page, we are dividing the things
between each other on the basis of what- the time one can- yes give and also the attitude and also
the job that we are doing, and, so for example I am working in the field of clinical trials and so at
this moment we are working a lot to have new studies done and clinical studies done in our area
in order to find out for example the relationships within PFAS and Covid-19 because there are
studie that were done early this year in our region that show we have a higher mortality rate and
we need to discover if this higher mortality was due to the fact that have a lower way to respond
to this virus or because it’s we are having more people that are sick.
On the other end we need to understand if the current vaccination program is working with us
because the rest are just saying that PFAS contaminated people are not having the expected
vaccine response and so then to keep the level in people that are supposed to process sometimes
very low and so we are working also in order to find out to do this new study in order to, yes, see
what is the best for us. We are trying to work with the institutions, but it's very difficult because
5
�as said, unfortunately they are linked to the very beginning of what happened because they are
having big responsibilities for the fact of not informing us in time for years.
So they are civil parties also in the trial against mitini but you know, we are not having the same
willingness to have the truth really discovered and it's clear from some decisions for example,
there is this screening that is done on the population, it was initially only done on people born
from 2002 until 1951 so all other ages were not included. We went to do a fight in order to have
at least some classes of children entered but only few of them actually did it so less than I would
say 130, 120 children under than 2002 were able to do it so. For example, I have three children
and only my elder daughter were able to do this when she was ten, now she is nearly twelve and
the other two, were not tested, yet, even if this was a program obviously because we had covid
pandemic in the meantime that blocked everything and so this is what we are doing the main
struggle , I don't know if you will be having some time to visit our website, it is
www.MammaNOPFAS.org and you will find a lot of information there about our story and what
we are doing and the main struggle is for me, in this moment, is to find the time. The time
needed to do everything we have a lot of journalists which are calling us, cryptographers,
researchers, people that are willing to speak with us, to discuss the kind of solution, to do new
studies, to propose things, and we need to speak with them and to speak with each other to
decide what to do, and to inform other people, to keep the webpage open, to also to speak with
other people in the world or all the way. In Europe in order to share information, for example we
are in contact with the Netherlands people and the Swedish people that are impacted by PFAS
contamination, so it's very useful when we are sharing information like this. And it may be a
struggle this time but I am doing this- I started to do this mainly, for my kids in order to protect
them and what is happening now is that I am using a lot of time instead of being with my kids I
am being with the PFAS problem and so, yes it's not easy.
DD: Yeah, I imagine not. You kind of started to answer this question already but what concerns
do you have about PFAS contamination moving forward from this point in time?
LF: Well, I know from the studies that are published, so the scientific studies which are the main
problems associated with the PFAS contamination and I also had problems during pregnancies,
my first two kids were low birth weight, and no one was understanding why I was having this
kind of problems during pregnancies. I was not a smoker, I was healthy, so it was strange, they
were not having explanations, they were asking me why- if I- to find out this sort of familiarity
for other- for this kind of situation and then the third pregnancy they suggested I take some drugs
and they were helping and then I understood why, because I took aspirin, and I found out later
that aspirin is able to mitigate the effects of PFAS settled in the, let's say at times at the level of
the circulatory system. I have already had one of the effects and my kids also. Im not having, my
son is having the problem of growth I don't know if this is still related to the fact that he was
born very small so- or if there is a direct or an indirect effect of PFAS, I'm trying to involve other
6
�researchers in order to understand if other kids are having the same issue. And, obviously I am
worried a lot for the future because these kinds of compounds are still there in their blood they
are not having a lot of them in the blood compared to other people living in our area but it's
enough to create damage. So, I'm trying to do my best in order to get them the best possible- the
best possible, let’s say food, water and it's a struggle because when I go to the supermarket I
always read everything [chuckles] in order to be sure that this was not cultivated here, and for
example eggs, the most contaminated things and so I'm looking in order to find out eggs that are
not coming from this area and vegetables and fruit and so on everything and the water as I said is
bottled water, it bottles up in glasses. I hope that we will not have any issue- that it will be
enough not to have other issues other than the ones that we have already in the past, but we have
a lot of people here that are having problems and those are the class there near the area of the
company of where there are a lot of women with breast cancer- a lot, and there is a big hospital
that only treats breast cancer there and no one is having the question why. Why here so many
women with this kind of cancer? Also here I have a friend, a lot of friends that are here and I am
lucky because I am not from - so, I was not born here, I was born fifteen kilometers far from here
but this area- that area is by another aqueduct so its safe at least, in terms of water. I was living
here since 2007 and I discovered the problem ten years later, but people that were living here,
and were born here and for example people that were using the groundwater also to drink it were
having levels of this contamination had already had problems. So I'm worried obviously but I’m
doing what I can in order to prevent anything else.
DD: Which sounds like a lot, sounds like you’re doing a lot.
LF: I hope.
DD: Before we wrap up today, is there anything else you’d like to add that we haven’t touched
on, or anything you’d like to go back to, or say more about?
LF: Yes, what is strange to me is that when we started to understand the issue and I told you that
I'm working on creating it, i'm used to searching for scientific documents or papers and so on I
find out there were a lot of studies already done on this compound after the compound disaster in
the middle aravali. What happened is that all these studies were not considered for us. So, what I
mean is that it's said that we are a different kind of humans, because we have to demonstrate that
this is also happening here. It's not enough to have that kind of disaster, here even if we are
having higher levels in our blood of this compound we still need in order for the trial against
mitini to demonstrate that this is causing something to us. Instead the problem is that having this
compound in our blood after all the studies that have already been done demonstrating the risk
that is associated in terms of a lot of diseases that are caused, is itself a legion. We should not
demonstrate anything else we have already, a lot of studies that were already done here that were
done all over the world.
7
�Why we cannot learn from past mistakes? Why we have to still demonstrate that they cause
something to us, the fact itself of having them in the blood is the damage, is the big damage for
us, because it is a big question mark on our future. We don't know what will happen but
something will happen. This is the problem, and this something that will happen was done
without anyone asking the consent so, it's like being in a big clinical trial without having signed a
consent because someone decided for us that this water was safe without informing us, so they
should have told us, okay, we discovered- at least when they discovered- we discovered this and
that, so, the information that we have so far is coming from studies that were conducted in ohio
because they were available and we are saying, we are not having a lot of information to tell you
that it is safe or not but at least we are informing you then you can decide what to do.
8
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Living with PFAS Interviews
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Devasto, Danielle
Description
An account of the resource
Beginning in 2021, the Living with PFAS interviews were recorded to gather the personal stories of individuals impacted by PFAS contamination. PFAS, or per- and polyflourinated substances, are a large group of human-made chemicals used widely since the 1940s to make coatings and products resistant to heat, oil, stains, grease, and water. They can be found in countless household items, including food packaging, non-stick cookware, stain-resistant furniture, and water-resistant clothing. These chemicals are often called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down easily, can move through soils and contaminate drinking water sources, and build up in animals, plants, and people. PFAS have been linked to increased incidences of various cancers, increased cholesterol, decreased fertility, birth defects, kidney and liver disease, and immune system suppression, and thyroid dysfunction. It is estimated that PFAS are in the drinking water of more than 200 million Americans (Andrews & Naidenko, 2020). In Michigan alone, over 280 sites have PFAS contamination exceeding maximum contamination levels for groundwater (MPART, 2024).
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2021
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Living with PFAS (project)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In copyright
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Personal narrative
PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals)
Groundwater--Pollution
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
DC-11
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
audio/mp3
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Motion Picture
Text
Sound
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PFAS0022
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Facciolo, Laura
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2021-07-21
Title
A name given to the resource
Laura Facciolo, 2021 (Interview video and transcript)
Description
An account of the resource
Laura Facciolo has lived all her life in the Veneto region of Italy. In this interview, Laura discusses the contamination of Garda Lake, the second-largest aquifer in Europe, as well as other fresh water sources in Italy.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
DeVasto, Danielle (interviewer)
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Personal narrative
PFAs (Perfluorinated chemicals)
Groundwater--Pollution
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Living with PFAS (project)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives
-
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/efd329056a2d621fe299fa4b31f687d6.pdf
63ecfa7a9093025250a1168931aa2e80
PDF Text
Text
Young Lords
In Lincoln Park
Interviewee: Laura Garcia
Interviewers: Jose “Cha Cha” Jimenez
Location: Grand Valley State University Special Collections
Date: 8/25/2012
Biography and Description
Laura Garcia was raised in an immigrant farmworker family. She was a member of MECha, the
Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán, in the struggle to build the United Farmworkers
Union, and joined the Teatro de las Chicanas, a theatre troupe started by Felicitas Nuñez and
Delia Ravelo, in the 1970s. She recently co-edited, with Sandra M. Gutierrez and Ms. Nuñez a
collection of memoirs by members of Teatro Chicanas called Teatro Chicana (2008). Their most
recent play is “Madres por Justicia,” which was first performed at the MALCS Conference in Los
Angeles, August 2011. Ms. Garcia’s work as a journalist has gained international acclaim. She
has reported on poverty and women’s conferences and electoral campaigns in Mexico, China,
Brazil, the Dominican Republic, and the United States, among others. She currently edits the
Tribuno del Pueblo, a bilingual newspaper that is distributed to readers across the United
States. The paper focuses on giving voice to the poor and on a range of immigrants’s issues. A
strong advocate for women’s rights, Ms. Garcia has also authored a bilingual pamphlet, “Who is
Killing the Women of Juárez?” It raises awareness about the disappearances and murders of
hundreds of women in Mexico’s Ciudad Juárez which is just across the Rio Grande River, from El
Paso, Texas and is home to a number of American drug manufacturers. She reports on the
�failure of Mexican and U.S. authorities to investigate the crimes and stop the killings. In 2004,
Ms. Garcia was part of a delegation which visited Ciudad Juárez to report on the crisis.
�Transcript
JOSE JIMENEZ:
So, if you can give me your full name, your date of birth, when you
were born, and where you were born.
LAURA GARCIA:
Okay. My name is Laura [Elena Cortez?] Garcia. And I was born in
Mexico -- I’m from Mazatlán, Sinaloa -- in the year 1953. But my family -- I’m
talking about the whole family. They have been in the United States since the
1920s. But like every Mexican family, we go back and forth between the United
States and Mexico. So, I would say half of my family were born here and half of
my family was born in Mexico. My mother happened to be born in Yuma, Arizona
in the 1920s. And then, they were deported, you know, the great repatriation that
they call it when the -JJ:
Even though she was born --
LG:
Yeah, because her parents were undocumented. [00:01:00] So, the parents were
undocumented but the children were U.S. citizens. But at that time, there was a
witchhunt to get rid of all the communists and all the labor unions and also
because the economic crisis, the Great Depression and so forth, they deported
the family even though the kids were U.S. citizens. It’s similar to what’s
happening today where the children are U.S. citizens but the parents are not.
And then, you have the option of leaving the children alone in this country or
taking them with you to Mexico or to whatever country they are. So, that
happened to my parents. And then, my -- we were very poor. Agricultural people
working the land. And so, after my mother [00:02:00] separated from my
1
�husband [sic] and after I was born and my sister was born, she came back to the
U.S. in the 1950s. And she ended up in Brawley, which happens to be were
Felicitas is. And Brawley is an agricultural town in southern California. And
there, my mother was a housemaid for about 13, 14 years. And eventually she
was able to bring my sister and myself to the U.S. in the 1960s. But it took her
about 11, 12 years to save enough money and to fix the papers even though
when she started fixing the papers there was nothing to fix because her being a
U.S. citizen, we automatically get the U.S. citizenship. So, had she known that
then, she [00:03:00] probably would have brought us sooner. I lived in -JJ:
What was your mom’s name?
LG:
My mother’s name is [Marrubio?]. But she lived in this house, and it easier to say
[Nelly?] than Marrubio. So, her name was changed to Nelly, officially too. My
mother, up until the day she side, she signed with Nelly, even though her name
was Marrubio.
JJ:
And your dad? What was his name?
LG:
My dad’s name is --
JJ:
Did you call him dad?
LG:
Yeah no, my dad’s -- I don’t call him dad.
JJ:
Okay. What do you call him?
LG:
He’s my -- my paternal family comes from China, and they migrated in about
1980s. There was a great famine in China. And my grandfather migrated. He
was a kid. He was about 15, 16 years old. And everyone was coming to the
Americas. It didn’t matter -- [00:04:00] not everybody ended up in San
2
�Francisco. My grandfather ended up in Baja, California and worked in Santa
Rosalia in the copper mines. But eventually he crossed the Sea of Cortez into
Sonora and then eventually -JJ:
What was his name? Do you know?
LG:
My Chinese name is [Lian?].
JJ:
And your father’s name was -- what?
LG:
My father’s name is [Raul Leon?] because he Mexicanized his name. So, the
last name is Lian, and then, Leon as closest as far as the Spanish. So, his name
is Raul Leon. But I --
JJ:
What type of work was he doing?
LG:
I think he did a lot of number of jobs. He worked in Sonora in the railroads,
building the railroads.
JJ:
Oh, so, he’s in Mexico.
LG:
In Mexico. He never came to the U.S. He was born in Mexico. And he
[00:05:00] -- that’s where he died. But he worked in the railroad. What he told
me is that he was the leader of the communist unit. And because of the political
work that he was doing, he was blackballed and he wasn’t able to get any more.
And he was fired. So, he was practically ran out of the town and the state of
Sonora. And Sinaloa is south of Sonora. So, he ended up in Sinaloa. But in
Sinaloa, he was a tailor by profession. In fact, that’s how my mother and he met.
My mother started working with him because my mother was 23 years old. And
she was an old maid. So, she could no longer stay with her parents because she
had to survive, make her own living. So, she -- from the time until she went to
3
�that town and found work -- and she found [00:06:00] work with my father, and
then, it all became. I’m a flower child or a love child.
JJ:
And were there any other children?
LG:
He had five others from another woman, I guess, wife. And he had two with my
mother.
JJ:
Do you know their names?
LG:
No. I never wanted to find out.
JJ:
What about the ones that he had with your mom?
LG:
Oh, yeah. My sister. It’s only two. (Spanish) [00:06:31]
JJ:
(Spanish) [00:06:33]
LG:
(Spanish) [00:06:35] She looks more Chinese than me. But that’s our feud, our
fight. Carmen says I look more Chinese. And I say, “No, you look more
Chinese.” Being Chinese in Mexico was not a very popular thing or whatever.
There was a lot of prejudism [sic] against the Chinese [00:07:00] in Mexico. And
so, we grew up, I guess, used to but not liking it, the fact that we were different
than other people. And it was always pointed out, no matter -- when we went to
the mercado or we went to -- wherever we were with my grandfather. It always
happened that someone stopped us or stopped him and asked him, “Oh, what
are they? Chinitas or japonesas?” And my grandfather, being such a Mexican
nationalist, he would always say, “Son Mexicanas. Don’t forget that. Son
Mexicanas.” Of course, Carmen and I would say, “Why does he get so mad? Of
course we’re Mexican. What else can we be?” We actually didn’t know that my
father was Chinese until much later because people kept asking us and we
4
�started asking. And then, my mother told us, “Yeah, [00:08:00] your father is half
Chinese, half Mexican.”
JJ:
Is this after you grew up?
LG:
Yeah. My mother and him didn’t separate on very good terms. So, I did not see - my mother has never -- my mother came to the U.S. and she never went back
to her hometown in Mexico. And she never wanted to. I think her memories are
not very good, for whatever reason. I don’t know if it’s the relationship with my
father or whatever. But she never went back. But she remarried. And after my
stepfather died -- his name is [Salome?]. He’s from Durango. After my -- the
best, the greatest person I’ve ever met in my life. He was the kindest --
JJ:
Your stepfather?
LG:
Yeah, my stepfather. He was just an outstanding human being. So, after he
passed away, that’s when my sister and I decided to go back to Mexico and hook
up with my father and find out more of our history because we didn’t know
[00:09:00] where we were -- I mean, one side of us, we knew where we were,
Mexican side. But the Chinese side, we didn’t have any idea. So, after my
stepfather passed away, then we went back and looked for -- well, we didn’t look
for him. We knew where he was. And we had a little short meeting. And he told
us.
JJ:
What did you find out?
LG:
That he was a motherfucker. (laughter) I’m sorry. You can erase it. No, he -- no,
I shouldn’t say that. I think he was a man of his times. And in Mexico, you
always have a casa grande and a casa chica. Casa grande is where you have
5
�your marriage, your legal family, you know, your children and your legitimate
children. Casa chica is where you have your other woman and the children,
illegitimate children. I happen to be from [00:10:00] casa chica. So, when I
asked my father why -JJ:
We called her coteja.
LG:
Pardon me?
JJ:
Did he have a coteja, another woman on the side that you have to raise.
LG:
Yes.
JJ:
Yeah, they still take care of her but --
LG:
Yeah. And they --
JJ:
And that doesn’t exist as much now. But used to exist there.
LG:
And the --
JJ:
So, what do you call it there?
LG:
Casa chica. And the rule is that if a man has enough money, he could have as
many casa chicas as he wants to because he can provide for them. So, I know I
was one of the casa chicas. I don’t know if he had other casa chicas. So, my
mother was advised but her godmother that, especially after we were born, it was
best for her to leave. It wasn’t so much for her [00:11:00] but it was for Carmen
and I because we really did not have any future in my town. It was very small.
And either we were either going to be always (Spanish) [00:11:11], illegitimate
children and we’re always going to be singled out, pointed at, and so forth. So,
she didn’t think there was much future for us if we stayed in Mexico. So, that’s
why my mother left. And because my mother left -- he was about 27 years old. It
6
�took a lot of courage for her to do that. But when my mother left, my father was
mad. He got very upset because -- I asked him, “Why have a casa chica? Why
have a casa grande.” He says, “Because I had the money.” So, that shut me up.
And then, I said, “Well, after my mother left, why didn’t you look for us or take
care of us and provide for us,” not that we needed it or anything. But we certainly
needed, I think, [00:12:00] his affection. He said, “Because once your mother
left, I had no responsibility whatsoever towards you, towards her or the children
because she had everything here. I had a house for her. You guys were well
taken care of.” So, that’s what he said. So, that’s why I say -- I didn’t want to say
he was an MF. But it was just he was a man of his times.
JJ:
So, a man of his time -- you meant -- so, he was disowning you because --
LG:
Disowning us, yeah.
JJ:
Your mom left.
LG:
So, once my mother left --
JJ:
And he thought he was correct in what he was doing.
LG:
Oh, yeah.
JJ:
He was a man of his times.
LG:
That was the surprise and astonishment that when I’m asking him questions, he’s
(Spanish) [00:12:53], you know, straight and not ashamed or anything. It was
like he was just telling things as a matter of fact. That’s the way things [00:13:00]
-- in fact, he did tell me, “Oh, this is the way things are in Mexico.” So, I
happened to find out later that it was not just in Mexico but in almost all -- every
country, many places. But anyway, coming back to the United States, we -- I had
7
�the opportunity when I -- one of the things that happens when you immigrate her
and you start -- want to go to school is at that time -- they don’t do it anymore.
But the school system -- they put you three or four years behind because you
don’t know the language. So, I was supposed to be in sixth grade, and they put
me back in third grade. So, that was like three years behind. And so, as I went
through school, I started realizing [00:14:00] when I went into my high school, my
freshman year, that I was going to graduate when I was 20 years old. And the
thought of being that old -- and also, I was 11 years old. I had my period. And
there I was with kids that were seven years old or eight years old. And it was
embarrassing, the whole experience and very humiliating to be able to go to
school at that age.
JJ:
What school was this?
LG:
Brawley. And what was the name of the school? [Ruth?]?
FELICITAS NUÑEZ:(inaudible)
LG:
No, I went to Ruth -- (Spanish) [00:14:43] I can’t remember. But it was in the
borderline of the Mexican side and the other side, the white side or [dónde vivían
los rancheros]. And that’s because of the kind of work my mother did. She
cleaned houses.
JJ:
Are you talking about the country of Mexico?
LG:
No, I’m talking about Brawley, the town [00:15:00] of Brawley here in the United
States.
JJ:
Okay. So, there was a dividing line in Brawley?
LG:
Yeah.
8
�JJ:
So, it was segregated.
LG:
Yeah. It wasn’t legal segregation. But there was a Mexican side of town and
then there was the other side.
JJ:
A white side. Okay. So, like (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
LG:
And it was because of the line of work that my mother did too that we lived kind
of in the border, in the edge of both.
JJ:
Because she was not in the fields.
LG:
She was cleaning. Yeah. She wasn’t working in the fields. Mostly everyone that
lived in the Mexican side of town worked in the fields, did agricultural work. My
mother was cleaning houses. So, she was closer to the houses that she was
cleaning or to that señoras so that we happened to go to that school. But
anyway, just the other thing -- and it’s just -- they really don’t want you to speak
Spanish or they didn’t. You had to speak English.
JJ:
In Brawley?
LG:
Yeah. Well, that [00:16:00] was in any school in that time. You were punished
when you spoke Spanish. And I happened to be punished. One time I couldn’t
play one recess because they overheard me speak Spanish.
JJ:
You couldn’t play what?
LG:
I couldn’t go and play during recess because they overheard me speak Spanish.
So, the teacher punished me. They told me to stand by a tree while other kids
were playing. But I have to tell you that I had a great teacher. My third-grade
teacher was the first teacher here in the U.S. And her name is [Mrs. Satin?].
And she was so kind and a real teacher in the sense of she knew that I didn’t
9
�speak Spanish. I think I was the only one in the classroom. But she made sure
that everything -- I would understand everything that was going on. She had an - there was [00:17:00] a classmate. Her name was [Lourdes?]. And she was my
translator, my interpreter. And she would -- after she would explain what we have
to do, then Mrs. Satin says, “You come to where my desk is and then Lourdes will
come to me.” And then, she would explain to me what the lesson was and so
forth. So, she was really, really good. I mean, I think because of that experience
-JJ:
And you said you didn’t speaking. What did you mean --
LG:
I mean, I didn’t speak English. I’m sorry. I didn’t speak English. But because of
the experience that I had with Mrs. Satin, I think that’s why I loved school. I
mean, was a very good student with very high grades. Anyway, then I -- at 17,
that was my freshman year, I decided --
JJ:
Freshman year where?
LG:
High school, Brawley --
FN:
Union High School.
LG:
Brawley Union High School. We all went to the same high school. Different
years. [00:18:00] I decided I couldn’t wait to graduate until I was 20 years old.
So, there was a program that I found out. It was a high school equivalency
program. And it was a program for high school dropouts that work in the field, in
the campo, for children of the farm workers in California. And so, the program
was in San Diego State. And so, I applied for it.
JJ:
This is before you left school? You were already thinking of dropping out?
10
�LG:
I was already of thinking of dropping out.
JJ:
But you had a plan.
LG:
And I was still in school. In fact, I left on a Sunday, and my last day in school was
Friday. But I was already thinking that I was going to drop out anyway. But I
wasn’t going to drop out into nothing. I was going to continue with my education.
And that was the only reason I could leave the house at 17 because I was going
somewhere. [00:19:00] So, my mother -- there was problems about me leaving,
not so bad, but my mother wanted me to go. She thought that I should continue
my education. She felt that she didn’t want us to end up cleaning toilets like she
did. I mean, it’s an honorable job. But she aspired for us to do more. I mean,
that’s the reason she was here in the United States. So, she really was backing
me up to go. My stepfather was not. He was very scared. He was very scared
because I was 17. To him, I was very naïve. He had a (Spanish) [00:19:46] kind
of -- didn’t know where things were. And so, it was 1969, and it was the -- the
schools were up in arms in the campuses. There was the Black Panthers on TV.
[00:20:00] There was the peace movement against the Vietnam War. And the
country wasn’t that stable for him to send his daughter to college away even
though it was only like 90 miles from Brawley.
JJ:
But did he mention this or you’re just recollecting?
LG:
Yeah.
JJ:
But he specifically mentioned Black Panthers and all those -
LG:
My stepfather was an atheist and also --
JJ:
What’s his name? Did we get his name?
11
�LG:
[Salome Coral?]. He was an atheist. And also, he -- I found out later -- oh, one
time when I came from school, he were doing a report on the Soviet Union. And
he always checked our work and discussed our homework with us which was
very strange [00:21:00] for that time too because -- that’s why I’m saying he was
a wonderful man. So, I had written this whole report about the Soviet Union, how
awful it was because there was no democracy and how great the United States
was and I loved it and this and that. And he said, “Well, how do you know that
they don’t have democracy in the Soviet Union?” And I go, “My teacher told me.
It’s in the books.” And he says, “You read one book and you heard one person
say that. And you’re just going to believe them?” And I go, “Well, why not? It’s
my teacher.” And he says, “No, you have to ask, you have to think, you have to
read. And then, you make your opinion.” And I was saying, “Are you a
communist or what?” And he said, “No, but I want you to be a thinker and not
just take for granted what people are saying as the truth.” And he says, “Find out
for yourself.” And I think that was the best [00:22:00] advice he gave me. Find
out. Don’t just swallow all the stuff (inaudible) and just do whatever.
JJ:
So, he was familiar with all these schools?
LG:
So, he was -- yeah, we watched the -- if there was something I didn’t like about
my stepfather it was that he watched the news. He watched the five o’clock
news, the seven o’clock news, and the ten o’clock news. No matter what
programs there were, whatever, we had -- and he made us watch the news. And
I would get so mad at him because I would tell him, “It’s the same news. What
they said at five o’clock, it’s the same thing they’re saying at seven, and it’s the
12
�same thing they’re saying at 10.” Of course there was no Internet, no nothing.
Right? So, it was the same news. And he kept saying, “Things might change in
a couple of hours. You don’t know. You have to be informed.” And so, that’s
how he knew about what was going on in the world, watching TV. [00:23:00] He
always read the paper every day. I mean, even though the Brawley news didn’t
have much. But he did with the paper -- and so, he forced us to watch the news.
So, we were aware of what was going on. And so, he was afraid for us or for me
that here I was, going into this world, and someone was going to influence me
into doing something that was not the best for me. Of course, it didn’t happen
the way he said it. But being in San Diego away from home in the height of the
Chicano movement, of course I was going to be influenced by what was
happening there, the movement for civil rights for Mexicanos and Chicanos. And
even though at first I didn’t see myself as a Chicana because I was born in
Mexico, it was later that I called myself as a Chicana because being a Chicana
[00:24:00] meant that you were for the rights of your people, of Mexican
Americans and people that were living here in the United States. And so, of
course I was for those rights. So, I called myself as a Chicana. And everybody
around me -- I lived in San Diego and every Chicano or Chicano that you saw -they were involved in they movement. They talked about the movement. And
they always wanted the HEP students -- it was 40 of us that were going through
that program.
JJ:
Everybody is -- oh, in the program. You were all taking about --
13
�LG:
Well, we were from that ranchitos from around California. And then, the students
-- there were already students going to San Diego that were also from the
ranchitos. But they were already politicized. And so, they were talking about the
movement. And introducing [00:25:00] the new ones like us from HEP into the
Chicano movement.
JJ:
They HEP? So, what do you mean the HEP?
LG:
It’s high school equivalency program. We were HEP students.
JJ:
You were ahead of the time.
LG:
And the Chicano students were [hepeada?], la hepeada, you know?
JJ:
Okay. Hepeana now from (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
LG:
No, no, no, HEP, from the initials of the program. And so, whenever there was
going to be march that the MECha students were organizing or the Chicanas
wanted to do this or whatever, they always said, “For this, ask the hepeada,”
because there were 40 of us that we can go in the bus and we could make a big
rally and scream with our posters and whatever. So, that’s how I was introduced
into the Chicano movement, not intellectually but mainly through the people that I
knew, the students that I knew in San Diego State at the university and [00:26:00]
talking to them, dialoguing. And little bit little -- and going to the marches, you
know, going to the marches for -- at the border of Tijuana and San Isidro.
JJ:
Oh, there were marches right at the border?
LG:
Yeah, yeah.
JJ:
What was that representing? What were they trying to do?
14
�LG:
The marches at the border were for the better treatment of indocumentados,
people that were here in the border.
JJ:
At that time.
LG:
Yeah. Or that were -- better working conditions. Yeah, at that time. So, there
were a couple in there. And then, we also -- the governor -- Reagan was the
governor at that time, around that time. There were always demonstrations
against him, that the students -- that we had for what he represented.
JJ:
They didn’t like him then? (laughter)
LG:
Oh gosh, no. They hated him. Well, not everyone in California because he won
two terms. No? [00:27:00] But certainly the students did not like him at all. And
then, there were just conferences that we had to go to. There were student
conferences MECha would organize to introduce high school students into a
college environment.
JJ:
So, this group of about 40 was always active in something, in some kind of a --
LG:
Yes. Some of them joined the Brown Berets. Some of them joined the Chicanas,
like I did, and the Teatro. Some of the guy -- some of the other guys joined
Teatro Mestizo. We were very active. And a group of us, after we got our high
school diploma -- then we enrolled into San Diego state and started going to San
Diego State.
JJ:
Okay. So, this wasn’t San Diego State. This was the high school or --
LG:
No, it was San Diego State University. They called it San Diego State University.
JJ:
Oh, but you studied even before you went to San Diego State University.
[00:28:00]
15
�LG:
Yeah. But the HEB program was in San Diego State, was part of that campus.
JJ:
I see. So, part of it was to try to get students into --
LG:
Yeah, interested into high education. So, it wasn’t -- I think I met Felicitas in
1970s, I think. It was before the Chicana organized the tea for our mothers. So,
1970. I would hear about this woman Felicitas that was real --
JJ:
What did you hear about her?
LG:
(Spanish) [00:28:37]. (laughs) A very brave and courageous woman that all the
women, all the Chicanas loved and respected and all the guys fears. (laughter)
So, she was a very militant person. [00:29:00]
JJ:
What would the guys fear her?
LG:
Because there was a lot of machismo in our student organization. And she did
not stand for that kind of ideology that said that men were better than the women.
And so, in a way -- well, it was fighting for women’s rights and that equality in the
movement, in the Chicano movement. And that’s sort of what inspired the
forming of Teatro de las Chicanas in 1971 by both Felicitas and Delia Ravelo that
we -- I mean, we started -- they started out by doing a skit for the mothers, for
their mothers to come into the campus so that they could relate to them what it
was to go to college, the problems that they were facing, the issues [00:30:00] of
drugs, sex, and the machismo so that they could be that kind of understanding
between mothers and daughters. I was not a student at San Diego State at that
time. I was at HEB getting my high school diploma. But as a HEB student -some of the HEB students attended that. And it was at that time at that
conference that I realized that I kind of changed by thinking about being
16
�Mexicana and being a Chicana. I think the conference, that gathering was very
educational for the mothers but also for the new students that were coming into
San Diego State and into the Chicano movement to understand what we were all
about. So, after that skit that they did [00:31:00] -- what was the name of the
skit? “Chicano Goes to College.” That the Teatro stayed. Delia and Felicitas -that the Teatro stayed. And the recruit women students and Chicanas into the
Teatro. And the main focus of the Teatro, of the skits at the beginning back in
’71, ’72 was fighting against the ideology of the machismo, the male supremacy
and all of that. All of our skits were against that. And that was sort of our
continuity from -JJ:
So then, what did you show on your skit? I mean, what (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible)?
LG:
[Speaking 00:31:44 Pues, te voy a decir.] We had a very famous skit (Spanish)
[00:31:50].
JJ:
Yeah. Tell me about that. I don’t know remember.
LG:
But you say, “Bronca, bronca, bronca, bronca.” So say it like that and it really
ends up being cabron. [00:32:00] And so, cabron is -- what --
FN:
It’s like a goat.
LG:
It’s like an asshole. Cabron, he’s being an asshole. And so, that’s what -- I think
people remember us more for that skit that was like five minutes long than all the
stuff that we did. I mean, we did actos that were half an hour or longer.
FN:
Right. “La Madre.”
17
�LG:
“The Mother” was almost an hour. But everyone remembers “Bronca.” Everyone
remembers “Bronca” because -- and it wasn’t very popular with the men or with
the women. The women that that we were too much -- you know, too blunt and
that there were better ways of talking to the guys about their male supremacy.
And then, the guys -- of course, they didn’t like [00:33:00] us. They didn’t like iot
because we were calling them assholes in public. So, it was like calling them out
to fight with us or that we were ready to fight them. And one of the -- some of the
lines are, “Why do you think (Spanish) [00:33:16]?” You know, do you see pots
and pans hanging from me? Every time we’re discussing the conference and
who’s going to take care of the food, all the guys look at the women to see who’s
going to volunteer. You know, it’s not just the job of women but of men. And
then, we would say “bronca.” It’s like, “Come on.” Let’s duke it out. And of
course, they didn’t like it. The funny thing -- and I think it’s very funny because in
politics and the movement, there’s always love, relationships. There was the
Teatro de Chicanas, all women, and then there was Teatro Mestizo, which was
men and women. [00:34:00] And Felicitas and myself -- were we the only ones?
There were other women, but they were not part of the Teatro de Chicanas.
Felicitas and I belonged to both teatros. So, we toured together. There was a
spot they would get -- or if there was a spot that we would get at a university, the
two teatros would go together. And so, the Teatro Mestizo would perform and
then the Teatro de Chicanas would perform.
JJ:
What was the difference?
18
�LG:
Teatro Mestizo did all the plays that were written by Teatro Campesino, by Luis
Valdez or that supposedly were written by Luis Valdez. And there was a
organization Teatros Nacionales de Aztlan. And it was a grouping of all the
teatros in all the universities throughout the Southwest. It was a very important
organization at one time. And the ones that were [00:35:00] heading that
organization was Teatro Campesino, Luis Valdez. And so, most of the actos and
the skits that were performed in the Chicano movement in the different
universities were written by Teatro Campesino and Luis Valdez, like “No Saco
Nada de la Escuela,” I don’t get anything from school -- I don’t know -- Soldado
Razo, which was an acto against the Vietnam War. But one of the -- so, that was
-- the actos -- and they were good. I don’t have any complaint about the
message. But there was one thing that they were at fault, and that was the way
they portrayed women because women were either virgins not to be touched only
to be looked at or prostitutes.
FN:
Or mothers.
LG:
Yeah. And that -- loose women [00:36:00] that should not be respected. And
that’s not the Chicanas. I mean, we are that, but we’re not. But we’re also a
bunch of other stuff. There’s different grades of who the Chicanas are. And for
the most part not a recognition that we’re equal just like they were. So, because
of that, we wrote our own skits, our own actos that portrayed women as strong
women, that dealt with issues of the women such of pregnancies and so forth
and looked for solutions that we were looking at at that time not a solution that
someone else was telling us to do, whether it be religious institutions or
19
�government or just the culture, our culture, of what we should do. So, the plays
were written by the Teatro. It was a collective process in the -JJ:
What issues did you [00:37:00] write?
LG:
We would deal with pregnancy, with -- the one I was telling you, “Bronca,” male
supremacy. We dealt with drugs. And we also started dealing with labor issues
because it was Teatro de Chicanas, 1971. And after that it became Teatro
Laboral. And then, we ended up -- and at the end it was Teatro Raices, which
ended up 1985. So, as our thinking changed, our ideology -- we started out with
women’s rights, but then it became workers’ rights and it became being inclusive
of everyone. And seeing that some of the issues affected everyone whether they
were Black or white or Brown. I mean, the issue of drugs is an industry, and it
affects everyone. The issue of [00:38:00] working conditions affects everyone.
So, we started dealing with that, with working conditions. And the thing that
Teatro is known for among us is that something’s happening somewhere where
one of the Teatro members is -- one of the stories in the book is [Sandra
Gutierrez?] is in Coachella working or living there -- well, she’s from there. And
then, she happens to -- the community starts organizing against this teacher that
slapped one of the students. And they’re really riled up in the UFW because it
was very strong there in Coachella. And they also started also being part -- they
organized the community against that. So, Sandra calls the -- I believe Felicitas
or Delia and says, “This is what’s happening in Coachella. [00:39:00] They’re
having a big meeting tomorrow. Can you guys come down and perform?”
(laughs) And that was like (inaudible). So, as they’re driving -- I was not part of
20
�that -- as they’re driving over there, they’re writing the skit. “You’re going to be
so-and-so. You’re going to be the teacher. You’re going to be the student.
You’re going to be the mother and everything.” And then, everybody’s trying to -we didn’t really write lines at first. It was just this is sort of what you’re supposed
to say, like the theme and the message. And then, we would ad lib it. So, that’s
how. And then -JJ:
What about practice? When would you practice?
LG:
Forget practice. (laughs)
JJ:
You didn’t practice.
LG:
That was one of the things that Teatro Campesino did. They would -- all the time
they would criticize our form. And I think it was really -- they were not happy with
the content either because they were very cultural and nationalistic and so forth.
[00:40:00] And we were like working class. You know? But they always -- they
couldn’t say that -- or they never did say it, but they did say, “It’s their form. They
don’t know how to act. They’re so embarrassing to see them out there.” But
maybe the form wasn’t great, but the message was good. And the audience’s
reaction was that they loved it. Then we had a question and answer after each
acto. And we would stand there. And whatever questions people wanted to
know, we would answer. So, it was part of the educational process, not just
doing the skit or the acto but then the Q&A. And then, we’d further the ideas and
so forth. So, the Teatro was very effective. I mean, ask me. (laughter) Don’t ask
anybody else.
21
�JJ:
But it just looks natural. You also involved audience, right? [00:41:00] Or you
didn’t. When you did a dinner --
LG:
Yes, (Spanish) [00:41:06]. Yeah. We always involved audiences because we
never had enough people. Like I said, that trip to Coachella was whoever could
take off from work, get a babysitter, or drag the kids with us that were -- if people
had kids by then. Well, I mean, we all started having kids kind of young. So, it
was that. So, then, if we need someone to play a certain role and we see
someone or if (Spanish) [00:41:33], if they come close to us and they’re friendly,
we say, “Oh, we need you to do this.” And then, before you know it, she’s acting
or he’s acting or whatever. So, yeah, we do try to involve the audience. And in
fact now that -- when we started touring about our book Teatro de las Chicanas,
we -- people -- some of the woman gravitated to us [00:42:00] from the
conference and some of them because part of the Teatro and did perform with
us. We have a skit called -- we did one on -- as a tribute to Las Mujeres de
Juarez. And then, some of the women that were not in the Teatro back then were
performing this time. But going back to 1971 -- I have to tell you a story.
Because all of the sudden Nefelez was gone. We were in school. We were in
the university. (Spanish) [00:42:34] Nobody knew. But then, a few months later,
there she comes. And she comes dressed in her militant -- her uniform after that.
It was her jeans, her boots, and the army jacket that you later told me that it was
your brother’s from the Vietnam War. And she always wore that and (Spanish)
[00:42:55]. So, we asked -- I asked, [00:43:00] “Where were you?” And she
started talking about -- she had come to Chicago because she was near. She
22
�had met someone from the Young Lords. And she had come to spend the
summer or a few months here in Chicago to help. While she was here she did
the murals. She did some murals and stuff like that. But it was the first time that
I had heard of the Young Lords. And the first time like, “Oh, okay.” And it was
kind of neat because one of the things about the Teatro -- I don’t want to speak
for the Chicano movement because it wouldn’t be right because it’s not true -- but
the Teatro is that we always looked to connect with different people. No importa
what nationality they were and so forth. And that was one of the things that I
think in the ’70s that I think [00:44:00] it hurt the movements was the separation
of the different movements, the Chicano movement over here, the African
Americans over here, the Native Americans, the women’s movement and so
forth. Even though there were (inaudible) there was also a lot of efforts to
separate us. And I think it was because of the money. There was so much
money given to MECha, so much money given to the student body, so much
money given to that organization. So, whether we wanted to or not, we were
scrambling for the crumbs among ourselves. But one of the things about the
Teatro de las Chicanas that I really liked was the internationalism of especially
Felicitas and Delia, that openness about it that, “Yeah, we can go and talk to
people and share ideas and learn about their struggles and so forth.” [00:45:00]
So, that was the first time that I had heard of the Young Lords. And then -- when
was it? Here in -JJ:
You mentioned a little bit about Delia.
LG:
Delia? Delia was a beautiful sister that -- (phone ringing)
23
�(break in audio)
LG:
About Delia Ravelo -- I don’t even know when I met Delia. But I know I met Delia
after Felicitas because first I met Felicitas and [Chiba?], [Celia Romero?]. And
then, afterwards I met Delia. but Delia -- what can I say about Delia? Delia was
just a beautiful soul, beautiful soul, but always had words of encouragement.
And I think that’s [00:46:00] one of the things that we needed at that time. You’re
17, you’re 18. You’re doing different things that are out of the norm. You’re
breaking with your culture, your -- everything that you’ve been taught. And so, as
you step into these new waters, you do need reinforcement. And that’s one of
the things that Delia did. “Come on Chinita, (Spanish) [00:46:27], you can do it,
Chinita. (Spanish) [00:46:29],” this and that and whatever. And it was -- I kind of
really liked that the leadership between -- that both Felicitas and Delia provided
because Delia was softspoken with a lot of encouragement. And Felicitas was a
little bit more fuerte. And I think you need that. When you’re like, “I don’t know.
I’m scared. What are people going to say? I don’t know if I can do it.” You need
the soft [00:47:00] voice or leadership that says, “Yes, you can do it.” And then,
you need then other one, “Andale,” you know? Because I remember several
times that Felicitas had to almost physically push me on the stage (laughs)
because I said, “I can’t do it. I have to go to the bathroom. I have to go number
two.” And it was like boing, there I am on stage. And then, that happiness that
you get, that saying, “Oh my gosh. I really can do it.” And that was what -- Delia
24
�provided that encouragement and so did Felicitas. I remember when I did
“Chicana Goes to College,” it wasn’t for our mothers. It was a different time. And
[Teresa Oyo?] -- she’s in our book. And she was my mother, and I was a
daughter. And I was like shaking because I was talking and saying my lines.
And I whispered to Teresa. (Spanish) [00:47:57] You know, my hands are
shaking. And she says, “Don’t worry about it. I’m going to told them really tight
[00:48:00] so no one can know.” And that was really good. That’s what I needed,
you know, someone to hold me (laughter) real tight as I’m talking. But that’s the
kind of courage that it took of the women back then and the kind of reassurance
that we needed from our sisters to be there when we get weak, for someone to
encourage us and to push us forward. And Delia and Felicitas certainly did that.
I think her dying in ’95 was really something -- I don’t want to say sad -- but she
certainly is missed. She’s a person that filled up the whole room with her
personality. And she was -- she had a really good sense of humor. She was
always cracking jokes or, “Come on. Let’s do this and let’s do that,” or whatever.
[00:49:00] And I also remember that she was -- one of the things I liked about her
is that she didn’t care how she looked. This is when I first met her. I think later
she might have, or maybe she did -- whatever. But (Spanish) [00:49:16 00:49:27]. And the way I was raised it I had to dress nice like a señorita. When I
went to college -- I guess all of us Chicanas (Spanish) [00:49:35] with our little
dresses and our -- well, they weren’t using pantyhose -- but our stockings and
the garter belt and everything. And it was so stiff. And when you get there and
you see this person like -- se va -- there goes the bra. (laughter) And it was great.
25
�It was just really great to be part of that time and having the sisters like Delia
around. And not only [00:50:00] Delia, all of the women of Teatro de -- they
helped mold us. And we helped mold them and they helped us mold -- it was
real reciprocal of encouragement. And (Spanish) [00:50:18] but that’s one of the
things. (Spanish) [00:50:21] but then we’ve got to perform. And then, we got to
take care of the babies. and then, it’s your turn to take care of the babies. Or I’ll
hold the baby while you go and say your line (Spanish) [00:50:32] We were
always exchanging and helping each other out. But I left San Diego in ’78 and
then moved to San Francisco.
JJ:
Did you go to school there in San Diego?
LG:
You know, I’m one of those chicas -- I went to San Diego State up until my third
year, and I didn’t graduate. I’m one of the Chicanas that was pregnant.
[00:51:00] And I advise everyone to use contraceptives so that doen’t happen.
Please. Because you always think (Spanish) [00:51:07] And I think Latinas -well, at that time -- I don’t know now. But I think it’s always worth it to say --
JJ:
What was your child’s name?
LG:
My son -- my first son is [Emilio?]. But then, so, there I was pregnant. And so,
my husband and I -- he was 19. I was 20. And so, we decided --
JJ:
What was his name?
LG:
[Jose?]. He’s still my husband. (laughs) So then, we want to have the baby.
(Spanish) [00:51:45] And so, there we go. We get into this little car from San
Diego State to Yuma -- my parents lived in Yuma -- to tell them that, no, “You’re
going to be grandparents, but no wedding.” Of course, little did I know.
26
�[00:52:00] Of course, we get to the house. I tell my mother while my stepfather is
talking to Jose. And then, my mother starts screaming, “No.” You know,
(Spanish) [00:52:13]. And then, Jose tells me -- he said, “Oh, when I heard your
mom screen, the TV went like this. I thought I was going to faint. And then, your
stepfather said, (Spanish) [00:52:25]. So then, he came to the bedroom and
(Spanish) [00:52:30] -- with the alcohol -- (laughter) [00:52:33] (Spanish) to
remind people -- (Spanish) [00:52:37] And then, he says -- my mom revives. He
said, (Spanish) [00:52:43]. And she said, [00:52:45] (Spanish). And then, my
father says, “Oh well, we knew that was going to happen, being away from home.
She’s young and so forth. So, that’s not a big deal. (Spanish) [00:52:56] my
mom says, (Spanish) [00:52:58] And then, my father says, “Oh no. She’s going
to get married, and she’s not leaving here until she gets married.” I go, “What?”
And he says, “Yeah.” And he got the local pages and he got the hospital or
something -- clinic to do the blood test because at that time they had to have the
blood test. And then, we went to Winter Haven where people go and have short
marriages or whatever. And there we walk in barefooted with our jeans and tshirt, going -- walking down the aisle to get married that night.
JJ:
Jeans and t-shirt, barefooted, hippie style?
LG:
Yes. (laughs)
JJ:
Okay. You guys (inaudible).
LG:
With the hair like this. I don’t know why I thought it was so cool to be barefooted.
I think it’s also --
JJ:
(laughter) And pregnant.
27
�LG:
And pregnant, you know? (Spanish) [00:53:55] You know, that way you didn’t
have to buy shoes or something. [00:54:00] But anyway, yes, I can say that I had
a shotgun wedding. And yes, tradition still -- I was very liberated. My parents
were not. (laughs) And so, I left the house. I got there at four o’clock. I left the
house at eight o’clock after I was married to San Diego. So, (Spanish)
[00:54:27]. But I don’t know why I was saying that.
FN:
I think he asked your husband’s name. But you were going to talk a little bit
about the reunion of the Young Lords in Grand Rapids.
LG:
Oh, I know why I talked about that. Because after college we all went different
ways. And I happened to go to San Francisco. And then, eventually I ended up
here in Chicago in 1981.
JJ:
Had you been there in Chicago before? [00:55:00]
LG:
No. Well, I had come in 1974 because (Spanish) [00:55:02] Felicitas got us
politically involved and awakened, I joined a -- I became a member of --
JJ:
What does that mean? Politically --
LG:
Politically awakened.
JJ:
But I thought you were already political awakened.
LG:
Yeah. But I took the next step in 1974 to commit myself to an organization. I
joined a political party. I joined the Communist Labor Party in ’74.
JJ:
The Communist Labor Party in San Diego?
LG:
(Spanish) [00:55:34] in a church that was on Ashland, big church there around
Van Buren or whatever.
28
�JJ:
Right, right. Panthers -- and we used to have political education classes there at
that church.
LG:
(Spanish) [00:55:48]
JJ:
That’s where the Communist Labor Party started?
LG:
In 1974 there was a big meeting.
JJ:
Nineteen seventy-four? But did you commit to that (inaudible)?
LG:
Yes. I came to that meeting. [00:56:00]
JJ:
From San Diego?
LG:
From San Diego, yeah.
JJ:
So, how did you get started in San Diego thinking about (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible)?
LG:
I started in San Diego because one of the things -- first, it was getting involved in
the Chicano movement for our people’s rights, women’s rights. But then, my
vision started expanding to include the working class regardless of color and so
forth.
JJ:
How did your vision start expanding?
LG:
I think a lot of it -- even though your conditions don’t make you -- don’t change
you, they certainly help you. I mentioned before -- I come from a very, very, very
poor beginnings (Spanish) [00:56:46] sometimes we would go hungry. And just
living in the -- I lived in -- it’s a funny thing. In Sinaloa, I was a healthy child up
until seven. Then in order to be closer to my parents, we moved to Mexicali, a
border town because California and Mexicali, Baja California. That way my mom
could just come over on weekends and see us, her being Hispanic. And so, in
29
�Mexicali, we were very poor. We didn’t have running water. So, I think seeing
that poverty and seeing that other people have too much and don’t want to share
-- even as a child, even as a young person, you start questioning things. So, I
think that -- seeing the injustices, not only socially but economically -JJ:
Did you read something? Did you bump into somebody?
LG:
Well, in Teatro, in Teatro de las Chicanas, we started reading one of the -- and
just in study groups. [00:58:00]
JJ:
The (overlapping dialogues; inaudible) question in study groups?
LG:
Yes. We read The Women Question. The other thing was in order thing is in
order to be part of writing the Teatro, the skits, the actos, we had to read. We
had to read the news. We had to read other books about it, some classics on
Marx on Engels.
JJ:
You know, we actually had a Young Lords group in Los Angeles that the
Communist Labor Party took over.
LG:
A Communist Labor Party took over?
JJ:
They were (inaudible) Labor Party that -- I think it was the group that -- were you
in -- did they have a chapter in Los Angeles?
LG:
Oh yeah, yeah.
JJ:
They started working with the Young Lords after I left there.
LG:
Oh, it could be.
JJ:
And a lot of them became members of that group. And I had also been to San
Diego at that time too.
30
�LG:
And then, we had a chapter there in San Diego. And then, we also had a chapter
in New York. And the chapter in New York was mainly Puerto Rican. [00:59:00]
FN:
The connection between the Young Lords was [Izzy Chavez?]. Izzy Chavez had
joined the chapter you were creating in San Diego.
JJ:
That’s right. Izzy Chavez -- I’m looking for him.
FN:
Oh, we know where he’s at.
JJ:
Oh great (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
FN:
So then, what happens is he ---
JJ:
Izzy Chavez -- I remember him.
FN:
He’s in Chicago making copies of a newspaper -- I don’t know -- something about
some connection to the Young Lords. And he meets Nelson.
LG:
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Nelson Peery
JJ:
So, who’s Nelson?
LG:
Nelson was one of the founders of the Communist Labor Party.
JJ:
I was underground when they organized that chapter. I was looking for people
like Izzy Chavez and then I remembered him.
LG:
Oh my gosh. Well, we were part of it.
JJ:
So, that’s what I mean. I thought it was the Communist Labor Party that took
over it after I left.
LG:
Yeah, yeah, most likely, yeah, because they were a grouping of different
(Spanish) [00:59:55] and there were different groupings in LA that came together.
[01:00:00]
JJ:
So, he became a member of the Communist --
31
�LG:
What was his name? Do you remember?
JJ:
Well, you said Izzy Chavez.
LG:
Oh, Izzy. Oh, (Spanish) [01:00:06].
JJ:
Yeah.
LG:
Oh, okay. Oh, oh, okay.
JJ:
It’s a small world.
FN:
And [Mundo Ruiz?]?
JJ:
Mundo Ruiz. Oh, yeah. (Spanish) [01:00:19] -- I was under when I was
organizing the Young Lords chapter. And we were trying to find these people to
include them in this project.
LG:
Oh yeah. We know where Izzy is. We know. And Mundo, I don’t know.
FN:
I saw him last week.
JJ:
So, I definitely (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
LG:
And then, Nelson lives here in Chicago.
JJ:
Explain a little bit about Izzy. You know anything (inaudible)?
LG:
Israel, Izzy. (Spanish) [01:00:41] I have to pronounce the zetas, and it’s hard for
me. Izzy, Izzy. (Spanish) [01:00:51] (laughter) So, he used to tell me, “Israel.” I
met Israel [01:01:00] back in 1975. He came back from Chicago. He was here
in Chicago with his with [Marta?]. And they came back to San Diego to organize
a chapter of the Communist Labor Party in San Diego and that’s how I met Izzy
because he was in charge of that chapter in San Diego. And his wife -- that’s
how I started with the Tribuno del Pueblo. The Tribuno del Pueblo was a
publication of the CLP, the Communist Labor Party. It was the bilingual -- or the
32
�Spanish newspaper. And Marta, Israel’s wife, was the editor of the Tribuno de
Pueblo. And so, when I joined the party, I left Teatro and Felicitas still mad about
that. I left Teatro and I joined the editorial board of Tribuno del Pueblo. And
that’s where -- I’ve been working on it since then. Now, the [01:02:00] Tribuno
has gone -- okay, the Communist Labor Party is not -- it’s gone. Then out of
whatever was left of the Communist Labor Party -- in the ’90s it was dissolved -then there was a national organizing party that was formed to rebuild another
organization. And that organization is the Legal Revolutionaries for a New
America. And the chair of that organization is [General Baker?]. He’s an auto
worker in Detroit. In fact, the Communist Labor Party -- one of the foundations or
the backbone of the Communist Labor Party was the auto workers in Detroit.
They were -- because they had the League of Revolutionary Black Workers. And
the League of Revolutionary Black Workers joined the Communist Labor Party
and provided the members and the money because auto workers earn a lot of
money [01:03:00] and financed it for a long time. But now it’s a League of
Revolutionaries for a New America, and General Baker is the chair. And then,
the Tribuno is independent now. It’s not sponsored or published by any
organization. It’s independent. It’s based on donations. People get a bundle.
They sell it or give them or get donations. And then, we gather enough money.
And when we have enough money, then we publish an issue. And it’s actually -the Tribuno del Pueblo became revived after the 2006 marches because -JJ:
What were those? Can you -- the 2006 marches?
33
�LG:
The 2006 marches was an outcome of a bill, H.B. 4437 that wanted [01:04:00] -that bill was a proposal. It had passed in the House in December of 2005, and it
was going into the Senate in 2006. And what it really said -- that anyone that
either housed or gave a ride to an undocumented, that aided that person in any
way -- that they were going to be arrested and it was going to be a felony. So,
the fact that you were going to become a felon just for helping another human
being with a ride or social service -- and it was going to include unions and social
services. Anyway, that kind of fired the movement and then exploded into the
2006 marches. And it’s the new immigrant rights movement right now. In fact,
[Omar?] -- Omar used to be in the Young Lords. [01:05:00]
JJ:
He was a minister of (inaudible).
LG:
Omar was one of the founders of the March 10th Movement. That’s what it’s
called here in Chicago.
JJ:
It was part of the same movement?
LG:
Yeah, because the March 10th Movement did a march -- the 2006 marches -they were mainly around (Spanish) [01:05:20] (laughs) Chicago did their march -thousands of people came out -- in March 10th of 2006, so a couple of days later.
Then we did have a primero de mayo marcha. And we had -- I know the official
figure said that it wasn’t that many. But I think there was like 500,000 people on
the street if not more. It was a beautiful sight. It was just --
JJ:
It was here?
LG:
It was here in Chicago. But then in --
JJ:
Five hundred thousand?
34
�LG:
In LA, it was a million. [01:06:00] I mean, it was a historic thing of how many
Latinos got out into the streets and (Spanish) [01:06:11] and that, pushing the
baby carts. That was a symbol of the marches. It’s not one person that you get
to a march. It’s like the whole family and la abuelita, los nietos, and everybody
just taking the streets and just marching. So, Omar was part of -- is part of that.
And it’s still a continuing effort right now. So, that’s how that Tribuno revived after
the 2006 marches because --
JJ:
Does it come every day? Does it come out --
LG:
It comes out, like I said -- depends on the money. Sometimes we get enough to
publish it every two months. Sometimes it’s every three months. We’re hoping
to publish it at least once a month. [01:07:00]
JJ:
Do you mail it out or --
LG:
Well, we do -- it’s bundles. In 2006 I went to a conference and met with a lot of
grassroots organizations on a one-to-one basis, got their information, introduced
the paper to them, and then they order bundles. So, we run about a thousand
every time and half of those are (audio cut) two thirds of them are distributed by
small organizations, grassroot organizations, not the traditional model for
[Mapalo?] or LULAC, but the little small organizations, little (Spanish) [01:07:46]
and it’s distributed in Rhode Island, Texas, Dallas, California, here, Detroit. But
it’s in that way. You might get a bundle of [01:08:00] 500 and then you get it out
wherever you go, in your meetings, the restaurants. So, that’s the way it gets
distributed. And then, hopefully we’re going to advance to having a listserv.
We’re coming up. That way -- this young man is going to help us. We rely a lot
35
�on young people because they have the knowledge to do it. Back to -- I want to
say something about -- so, I came in 1981. But I want to talk about a very
exciting time in Chicago and that is the Harold Washington campaign. He was
running for mayor. He did what no one could and that was unite, unite all of us
into a movement. And he always said it was a movement. It was a movement of
the people to try to get the city back. [01:09:00] And Harold Washington had the
charisma, the spirit, and the love for the people that he wanted to represent. It
was amazing being here in Chicago when he was brought in because I would
walk down Humboldt Park and it was like we all had our little buttons with the
sun, (Spanish) [01:09:23] Harold Washington. And then, we wouldn’t even know
each other. But then, they would see my button and I would see their button.
And we would go, “Oh, right on.” You know? So, it was like we became -- the
city or the people here in Humboldt Park, which is where I live -- everyone was
their friends. Everyone was happy to see you. We had something in common. I
remember the rally on North Avenue and Western where thousands of Latinos
were there to receive him. And it was the -JJ:
And it was organized by the Young Lords. [01:10:00]
LG:
That was organized by the Young Lords. And you were in the podium or on the
platform and stuff like that. And I just remembered him walking in, Harold
Washington, when he walked in before he got on the stage. And I mean, just
hands trying to touch him, trying to shake his hand and it wasn’t because
(Spanish) [01:10:24] or anything like that. It was because here was a person that
36
�wanted to represent the interests of our communities (Spanish) [01:10:35]. And
then, once he became mayor -JJ:
And that was -- wasn’t that one of the first Latino --
LG:
Yes, oh yeah. Big one.
JJ:
It was the first Latino rally for --
LG:
Yeah.
JJ:
And it was organized by the Young Lords.
LG:
And it was -- I think -- I don’t remember very clearly. But I think it was kind of like
kicking off like --
JJ:
Kick off.
LG:
Kick off of his campaign here in [01:11:00] this area and in the Latino community,
Humboldt Park, Wicker Park, and also in Pilsen. And also, when I -- Fiesta del
Sol, he was already mayor (Spanish) [01:11:14]. You were telling me that he
wore a hat that you guys gave him.
JJ:
(inaudible)
LG:
Well, in Pilsen, he had a big mariachi hat. And he talked to the people because
he was under a lot of attack. Even though he was mayor, he was under a lot of
attack.
LIAM: (inaudible)
LG:
Hello, sweetie. Come here. Come here. Want to be on TV? (Spanish)
JJ:
What’s his name?
37
�LG:
His name is [Liam?] and he’s one of my grandsons. I have two granddaughters.
Their names are [Katelyn?] and [Gwenyth?]. Say hi. [01:12:00] Say hi. No? You
want to go with grandpa now?
L:
No.
LG:
No? Okay. Well, you can sit here and write.
JJ:
So, that was (inaudible) at that time.
LG:
Yeah.
JJ:
And it actually was on -- what floor was it?
LG:
Yeah because he had to go up the stairs.
JJ:
No elevator.
LG:
Of course I was young then so I could --
JJ:
But it was bad.
LG:
Yeah. It was. It was like standing.
JJ:
Did you pay to get in?
LG:
No, (Spanish) [01:12:28]. (laughter)
JJ:
Everybody thought (inaudible) but they had tickets.
LG:
Yeah, yeah. And it was organized (Spanish) [01:12:41], no? I mean, I remember
because I remember -- it was like -- I didn’t expect that many people to be there
from that community (Spanish) [01:12:52]. But that’s -- he was a great man.
JJ:
And did you go to the other rally in [Algo?] Park or no, the big one? [01:13:00]
LG:
I don’t remember.
JJ:
Like a parade.
38
�LG:
No, I don’t remember that. I remember that we certainly organized to get the
vote for him. That was the first time that I was -- I became involved in politics,
electoral politics because it was very important for people to come out and vote
for Harold. And so, I -- knocking on doors, telling them the information and so
forth and then that day of the election going to get the people to come, help them
and remind them so forth.
JJ:
So, how did you feel when he won? I mean, because we’re used to picketing,
right? But now we got a mayor. So, how did you feel?
LG:
Great. I felt like I owned the city, like the city was mine, that it was the people’s,
the city, and full of hope that things were going to change, that there was a
person that really [01:14:00] wanted to fight for our interests. And it was a fight. I
mean, that was one of the things he would tell us even after he became mayor
and he would talk in different places. He would say, “I’m fighting. But I can’t fight
alone. I need you. You represent the movement. You’ve got to be behind me
and fighting for your program.” He had a program.
JOSE: (Spanish) [01:14:27]
LG:
I’m videotaping, Jose.
JJ:
[Overlapping dialogue; inaudible]
LG:
I know.
JJ:
I got [inaudible].
J:
Come on. Let’s change your diaper. (laughter)
LG:
Bye.
J:
Say bye.
39
�LG:
It was hot outside. Okay. (Spanish) [01:14:51] So, anyway -- so, yeah.
[01:15:00] Now going back to Lincoln Park. But it was a great experience. It was
a good way of getting introduced to Chicago. I became a judge, I mean, a judge
in the elections. During the elections, the election day they needed people to be
judges. They have -- you know, to make sure that everything is legal, that people
that come in to vote, they are in the roster, that it’s the right address and
everything. And that’s how we did. The Harold Washington campaign had
people there, and I was one of them. I played a very small role. I was more like
whatever they needed when they could and stuff like that. There were other
people that worked hard.
JJ:
But the election was in the precinct. There was one. [01:16:00] So, it was an
important one.
LG:
At that point I lived in Homan and Potomac. He had a good support there.
JJ:
And did he win in the Latino area?
LG:
Yeah. (Spanish) [01:16:16] that machine was very strong in Wicker Park, the
Democratic Party machine. I mean, it’s years of them -- the precinct captain
going around, telling people who to vote for, and giving them jobs and whatever.
That’s the machine. And it was hard to break.
JJ:
But we broke them.
LG:
Yes, yes, remember that shock.
JJ:
That’s what I understand the (inaudible) we broke the machine here.
LG:
Exactly, the machine was broken. It was broken already. But that was the blow
that -- and it was a great time to be involved in politics.
40
�JJ:
So, at least we know -- even though we’re [01:17:00] far from it right now, we
know what has to be done.
LG:
Yes, yes (inaudible). We got to have a program of what people need.
JJ:
What do you think we have to do? What were the lessons?
LG:
(Spanish) [01:17:19], what I learned from it was that Harold Washington was not - had a program, had a program based on what people needed in the
communities, education, housing, fighting the question of issues of drugs and so
forth. And he would tell the people, “This is what I’m going to do. This is my
platform. This is my program.” And when he was elected mayor, he set out to do
that. It’s not like other candidates that say, “(Spanish [01:17:52].” Once they
become whatever office they win, then (Spanish). [01:18:00] So, I think to me it’s
--
JJ:
Well, what happened? You set out to do it. But what happened?
LG:
What happened to him?
JJ:
After he got elected.
LG:
He told the people to fight for the program.
JJ:
What about you (inaudible) were they supportive?
LG:
Oh yeah. [01:18:14] (Spanish) and the Black unity of -- at that time, it was really
[Losano?]. [Chuy?] was not an alderman, Chuy Garcia. But he was with
[Rudy?]. They worked together. And then, [Rush, Bobby Rush?]. (Spanish)
[01:18:36]. And [Soliz?] wasn’t there. [Gutierrez?] was not an alderman.
JJ:
No, he wasn’t. In fact, he was a --
LG:
He was a state --
41
�JJ:
He was a precinct member, precinct (inaudible) (laughs) at that time.
LG:
At that time?
JJ:
And then, he ran for alderman and we supported him.
LG:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JJ:
But he was [01:19:00] one of our precinct candidates (inaudible).
LG:
It opened things up, I think, for --
JJ:
Because there were two main offices, [West Town Coalition?] and the one we
had on Fullerton, those two main offices on the north side.
LG:
It was a great time. But I think as far as lessons, it’s to find out what are the
needs of people. And based on the needs of people -- I mean, not people -- then
you do that. You know? You set out to do that because after all, it’s our tax
money. It’s not like they’re going to get money from somewhere else. It’s the
taxes that we pay. So, therefore, they should go for what we need, whether it be
better schools, more schools, lower classrooms, parks, whatever. And I think
sometimes new mayors come in and they think the money’s theirs to do what
they want or their [01:20:00] groupings, their friends. And it’s not. So, the money
has to go back to the people because it’s the people that put that money there
through our taxes. And I think that’s certainly what Harold Washington was trying
to do. It was sad that he died.
JJ:
So, after that you kept working with the --
LG:
I kept working with the Tribuno. And also, I became a little bit more -- after the
election, I didn’t keep being active in the electoral politics that much except for
42
�certain people that would come around. Like right now, I’m a little bit active with
Rudy Lozano, Jr., with his campaign and stuff like that.
JJ:
Who was Rudy Lozano, Sr.?
LG:
Rudy Lozano, Sr. was the first Latino alderman and from Pilsen. And he was
[01:21:00] a trade unionist, and he was a very progressive person that was killed.
And even though they say it was just a criminal act with no reasons -- there was
no politics behind -- I tend to think that someone wanted him dead because of
what he did in the community and who he represented. He certainly was an
advocate for the rights of the undocumented. And at the time that he died, he
was organizing undocumented workers. And that’s something that his son, Rudy
Lozano, Jr. has also continued and who’s very dear to him as far as the Latino
community and the needs and stuff like that.
JJ:
And you’re working with him right now? [01:22:00]
LG:
No, just through his campaign, the last campaign that he had. Whatever I can
do, I do that. So, that’s someone that I think has a good vision of where Chicago
needs to go. I mean, of course, you start small. But eventually, who knows? We
might have a Latino president. (laughs)
JJ:
And you went also to a reunion.
LG:
Yes. I would publish and our book and everything the Teatro de las Chicanas
book in 2008. And then, we -- the Chicanas started getting together again more
frequently. But one of the times that we did get together was in -- (Spanish)
[01:22:45], 2000 and --
JJ:
Two thousand.
43
�LG:
Two thousand. But two years ago. Jose said three years. But 2000.
FN:
Delia Ravelo was still alive.
LG:
But she didn’t come, did she?
FN:
No, no, she didn’t. She was in Europe.
LG:
Yeah. [01:23:00] The Young Lords were having a reunion in Grand Rapids and
[Feliz?] -- I guess she got a message from someone that they were going to have
a reunion. And so, she organized -- Feliz is a good organizer. She organized -about six of us -- well, I’m here already -- to come to Chicago and to perform.
JJ:
(inaudible)
LG:
First they came to Chicago. They stayed in my house, six of them in one room.
(laughter) (inaudible) Actually, we stayed up all night. We went to [Rosa’s?] to
listen to blues and to another place.
FN:
Golden something.
LG:
Gold Mines or Mines something to listen. We stayed up until four or five o’clock
in the morning. Now, we’re middle-aged women. (laughter) But we could still kick
it. And Jose was our chauffer. He drove us around all over the place. He even
took us to Grand Rapids. [01:24:00] Anyway, so, after that, at eight o’clock in the
morning, we jump into the van and go to Grand Rapids to meet the Young Lords
because we have heard a lot of stories of the Young Lords. And we were very
excited to meet them, as a group, and to be part of this celebration and this
reunion. It was someone -- a group that we heard about when -- like I was
saying before -- back in the ’70s. And now, to actually meet them was really an
honor for a lot of us. I know [Inda?] was so excited and [Peggy?] and [Margie?]
44
�and [Gloria?] and myself. And so, as a way of contributing to this celebration, to
this reunion, Felicitas wrote an acto on the Lincoln Park gentrification, that whole
process that had happened.
JJ:
It was called “Madre de Corazon.”
FN:
Oh, yeah.
LG:
Yeah, “Madre de Corazon.” [01:25:00]
JJ:
Because we had -- (Spanish) [01:25:02] was our symbol.
LG:
Oh, okay. Yeah. And it was fun doing it. (Spanish) [01:25:10]
JJ:
That was the reason. Was that the reasoning?
FN:
Yeah. [“A La Brava”?]. I think the women got the lines when they boarded the
plane. And in the four hours from California to here, they had to learn them. And
then, I decided I was not going to act. I was too shy. I wasn’t going to do nothing
anymore, no acting for me. But then, I got so excited about it that I told Feliz,
“Okay. I can be in the play, but I won’t say nothing. Don’t give me any lines.”
So, I was in the -- I think one of the skits that we were driving this car and we’re
looking -- we’re being shown how gentrified Lincoln Park was. And they were
telling us what it used to be and how many Puerto Ricans lived in there and how
they were pushed [01:26:00] into Humboldt Park and so forth. And so, I was in
(inaudible). (laughter) And then, of course, we got Omar to do the husband of
Inda. And he --
JJ:
And you had Angie.
LG:
And Angie too. And then, we --
JJ:
And you had the (inaudible) was in.
45
�LG:
Yeah, [Obed?] también and then, we --
JJ:
And the kids.
LG:
And then we got two women from Palm Springs or (inaudible). They had never
done anything. And then, one was just going through the sign. And then, we had
two little kids because they were part of -- they were in the woods and were
trying to learn the history and so forth. It was really fun. It was really nice and --
JJ:
You were just trying to get some groups back together.
LG:
Yeah.
JJ:
So, it was real grassroots because everyone was just trying to get back together.
LG:
And it was really good because --
JJ:
We actually had two more camps after that.
LG:
Oh really?
JJ:
That were (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) yeah.
LG:
That’s great. [01:27:00] [“Dalichon?”] was great. (laughs)
JJ:
(inaudible) We got it from the Amish too.
LG:
Oh really?
JJ:
So, it wasn’t greatly expected. We went and got a real live pig and they killed it,
you know, typical Puerto Rican -- Latino style, whatever.
LG:
Latino style, yeah. You know what was really important for me was to listen to
the testimonials because I knew they were being taped. But to listen to your
story, to Omar, to [Ben?], some of the women that were there and even Felicitas
got up. And it was really good the way it was done because it wasn’t you talking
about it but it was someone else.
46
�JJ:
They took over the mic. They took over the mic. They wanted it so bad that they
took over the mic. It lasted about five hours.
LG:
Oh my gosh. It was all day. But it was great. It was really great. It was
[01:28:00] a good experience.
JJ:
Our 40th anniversary was the same way. They take over the mic and
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
LG:
Well, we went -- for some reason, you were in town, or did you come for that,
Felicitas?
FN:
What’s that?
JJ:
The 40th anniversary.
LG:
Over at [The Paul?]?
JJ:
No, no -- yeah, that’s where --
FN:
Yes, yeah. They were really crowded (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
JJ:
That’s where [Cindy?] had her famous -- (laughs)
LG:
Oh, at the church.
FN:
At the church. Yeah, in the church.
JJ:
In the church. You remember that, right?
FN:
Yeah.
LG:
Yes, I remember that. Pobrecito [Chacho?]. (laughter)
JJ:
What happened? What happened?
LG:
(Spanish) [01:28:34] revolutionary love. (laughs)
JJ:
What did Felicitas do? She definitely got me by surprise.
47
�LG:
Really? Oh, you don’t want me to say it again what she said? (overlapping
dialogue; inaudible)
JJ:
Well, you don’t have to say that but if you could describe what happened. What
do you remember?
LG:
What I remember from -- well, one of the things --
JJ:
Because actually did you speak after that? You were singing.
FN:
Yeah. [01:29:00] She did.
JJ:
Yeah, because you were good. You were singing.
FN:
(inaudible).
LG:
(Spanish) [01:29:03]
JJ:
Yeah, but you spoke very serious.
LG:
Oh, I didn’t talk about my --
JJ:
And the other person -- I don’t know who the other was. He was laughing at me.
But it’s alright.
FN:
Oh, [Liz Manuelas?]. (Spanish) [01:29:15]
JJ:
Oh, that’s right. Yeah. And Liz stood next to Felicitas and was laughing at me,
(laughter) enjoying the whole scene. But you came afterwards and was serious.
It was good.
LG:
Well, I had to after half and hour of “Ese Amor.” (laughter) But I think it was really
good.
JJ:
Well, that happened? What happened? (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
LG:
I think that was the first I had met in person.
JJ:
I’m still trying to organize the darn thing.
48
�LG:
I love [Edith Morales?].
JJ:
I said, “What did she just say?”
LG:
I know. It was a pleasure and an honor meeting Edith Morales. And thanks to
you, the Chicanas made contact with her. And when we go to New York, we try
to see her every time. We were just there this year. Earlier this year she got an
[01:30:00] award and we went to be part of the celebration.
JJ:
Oh, okay, good.
LG:
You know what I learned from what she said? It’s like you meet someone and
you (Spanish) [01:30:19].
JJ:
Did I say that in there?
LG:
No, no, no.
FN:
Another time.
LG:
(Spanish) [01:30:36]. But anyway, no, no, you didn’t say anything. You couldn’t
even talk. (laughs) After that, you -- but what I learned is that things happen. We
fall in love. But some of us are of a different mold (Spanish) [01:30:54] that, yes,
love is [01:31:00] important but also our vision of what we want, of the world we
want is stronger or if not as strong as that. And so, we fail at certain things, but
we keep on going. Because it would have been easy. Felicitas was -- what -21? I mean, you’re not old at all. She was a young girl. She could have just
gotten mad and left. And had she left, she would have missed all that experience
of meeting all of you guys, of working with you, of doing the murals, of meeting
other people and then being able to bring it to San Diego to us, the Chicanas.
So, in a way, it’s like yeah, (Spanish) [01:31:44] life continues and your vision and
49
�your mission -- you continue in that path. (Spanish) [01:31:53] That’s what I
learned [01:32:00] from what you said.
JJ:
You enjoyed it (inaudible).
LG:
Oh my gosh. I didn’t know she was going to do it. I didn’t know she was going to
do it. I was shocked, surprised.
JJ:
But my mind is -- I got this (inaudible) all these people are taking over. What am
I going to do?
LG:
(Spanish) [01:32:18] (laughter) It wasn’t just like --
JJ:
And I wanted her to speak because a respect for the work that she did. I mean,
and of putting together -- I mean, he helped to unite the movement or
Puertorriqueno Chicanos. So, that was important.
LG:
I remember --
JJ:
And it’s -- my part of the responsibility is head of the group. I get attacked every
day. I mean, I have to maintain the group unity all the time.
LG:
Well, I think you do very well.
JJ:
I have to [01:33:00] erase -- get away from the personal sometimes.
LG:
The other thing we came -- but (overlapping dialogue; inaudible). Yeah,
(Spanish) [01:33:06] -- remember they were doing something about the murals.
They had taken pictures or something at DePaul?
JJ:
Right, right.
LG:
That was the other time we went. We were there.
JJ:
Yeah. You went to the DePaul.
LG:
I went to the DePaul.
50
�JJ:
At the 40th anniversary. That was the --
LG:
Yeah.
JJ:
Because we had two rallies. We had one at DePaul and then we wanted to have
another one in the community.
LG:
Okay, so we went to both.
JJ:
So, you went to both.
LG:
Yes. But the one at DePaul -- (Spanish) [01:33:34].
JJ:
Right, (Spanish) [01:33:40]. Well, the other thing -- we had a lot of people too
because it was a bigger space, more (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
LG:
Oh, yes, yes. (Spanish) [01:33:46]
JJ:
And the more community (inaudible)
LG:
(Spanish) [01:33:50] (laughter)
JJ:
People didn’t bring it up. [01:34:00]
LG:
But it was good. It was good. So, I really thank Felicitas for bringing -- for putting
me in touch with you and through you the Young Lords and whatever. It’s been a
very valuable --
JJ:
I appreciate the Teatro and what they did for us. I mean, they helped us each
time. So, I appreciate that. You’re hoping it’s enough. What else? What’s your
final thoughts?
LG:
Right now?
JJ:
Yeah.
LG:
I was saying cut. (laughter) (Spanish) [01:34:31] -- now I’m going to speak
Spanish, but no, I’m going to say it in English. I think our lives -- I was telling
51
�Feliz, we must be getting old, very old because a couple of people want us to -you know, videotape us through what experiences (inaudible) or whatever. But
it’s good to at this age and to have lived through the things I have lived through.
[01:35:00] The Chicano movement was certainly an eye opener. The peace
movement, the women’s movement -- and to have continued working towards a
better society, a better world, a better human-ness that we need -- I think that’s
so important. I have friends from back then that say -- that have told me, “Don’t
you get tired? Why don’t you give up? Things are never going to change.” And I
think I have to say that Chicanas don’t give up. (laughs) If anything that you have
to learn from us is that the Chicanas don’t give up and the people from the
movement -- that if you really, really, really believe in what you fought back when
you were young, those ideals are like -- they continue. They make you go
through a certain path. [01:36:00] And I have never, never, never regretted the
path that I have taken of seeing something that’s wrong and wanting to make it
right. I’ve been happy. I’ve found my husband in the movement. I’ve been
married 40 years. I have two kids, or two young men. And I try to instill in them
the same passion that I have for humanity.
JJ:
What’s your other son’s name?
LG:
My sons -- well, the oldest one is [Emilio Nicholas?] and the younger one is
[Adrian Cortez?]. And they’re both in the movement in their own way, not the
way I did it, but the way they did it. My oldest son designs the Tribuno. He’s a
professional designer. I don’t pay him anything. But this is the paper that we
publish every two months. And he designs. [01:37:00] And then, my younger son
52
�takes pictures, and I always use his pictures. And then, (Spanish) [01:37:08] that
I can find that can proof it in English because my English is not that good, then I
get my husband to do it. (laughter) I get Jose and he starts proofing the English.
So, it’s a family effort. But I do -- am involved in my sons and everything. It's for
them to know that there is something else besides material things. (Spanish)
[01:37:36] and that our -- it’s a privilege to be part of change. And I think we owe
our responsibility to this present -- for my generation, this present generation,
and the future generation to leave a better world for them and not to leave it in
the hands [01:38:00] of the wealthy, the capitalists, the corporations that we know
which direction they’re taking. I mean, (Spanish) [01:38:09] money, money,
money (Spanish) [01:38:10] the schools are being closed, the -- everything that
we gained back in the ’70s, our rights, are being taken away. I mean, I was
talking to Felicitas last night. I mean, I am astonished of what this guy, you know,
the Republican said about the -- well, it’s -- what is it? If you get pregnant after a
rape, then it’s not a real rape. I mean, this is the 21st century and someone has
those thoughts and that mentality in relation to women and stuff like that. So, we
cannot go back to where we were before the ’70s and before the ’60s. We’ve got
to go forward. And that kind of mentality in this world [01:39:00] is not -- it cannot
be accepted but neither can it be accepted that you spend more money -- that
you don’t want to spend money on healthcare, that you don’t want -- for
everyone. A person is sick and needs healthcare -- homelessness is growing in
this country when there are so many empty homes. And what do they do with
the homes? It’s cheaper to -- the banks can’t sell them, so it’s cheaper to destroy
53
�them. So, there has to be a better society where we really put human needs first
and stop doing what they’re doing. One last thing. I support for this presidential
elections -- I support the Green Party’s candidate, Jill Stein. And in one of the
interviews that she did, she said [01:40:00] -- they asked, “Well, what if you don’t
win this election?” And she says, “But you have to begin in order to win. You
have to start.” And I really agree with her. We’re so used to choosing the lesser
of two evils because we’re going to lose. But if we don’t lose -- if we don’t get a
Republican -- I mean, a Democrat, then we’re going to have a Republican. But
they both represent the same capitalist interests, the rich and the wealthy.
They’re not representing any of us. I don’t care if Obama is Black. I think we’ve
got to look beyond color and beyond gender. We’ve got to look at -- like what we
did in Harold Washington’s campaign -- what is the program and then holding
them responsible to do it. But I fear for the youth. I work as an interpreter. I go
to the Cook County jail. We have about [01:41:00] 11,000 inmates. They’re
young. They’re like -- the majority are 17 to 25. The women’s population is
growing. I can’t -- then there’s no jobs. And the say, “Okay, well high school
diploma is not good enough.” But maybe college -- go to college. But you go to
college. It’s not enough. Something is wrong. I think we need to take
responsibility and really fight to change it. So, that’s all I want to say.
JJ:
I appreciate that. Thank you very much.
54
�
https://digitalcollections.library.gvsu.edu/files/original/e9a150b5c2035ccf0ef72296a93f1186.mp4
817012c74525812bb41a6dbfc5c6c937
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Young Lords in Lincoln Park Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Young Lords (Organization)
Puerto Ricans--United States
Civil Rights--United States--History
Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.)
Personal narratives
Social justice
Community activists--Illinois--Chicago
Description
An account of the resource
Collection of oral history interviews and digitized materials documenting the history of the Young Lords Organization in Lincoln Park, Chicago. Interviews were conducted by Young Lords' founder, José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, and documents were digitized from Mr. Jiménez' archives.
The Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection grows out of the ongoing struggle for fair housing, self-determination, and human rights that was launched by Mr. José “Cha-Cha” Jiménez, founder of the Young Lords Movement. This project is dedicated to documenting the history of the displacement of Puerto Ricans, Mejicanos, other Latinos, and the poor from Lincoln Park, as well as the history of the Young Lords nationwide.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jiménez, José, 1948-
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park collection (RHC-65)</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Special Collections & University Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-25
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Language
A language of the resource
eng
spa
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-65
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
2012-2017
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Título
Spanish language Title entry
Larua Garcia vídeo entresvista y biografía
Sujetos
Spanish language Subject terms
Young Lords (Organización)
Puertorriqueños--Estados Unidos
Derechos civiles--Estados Unidos--Historia
Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.)
Narrativas personales
Justicia social
Activistas comunitarios--Illinois--Chicago
Source
<a href="https://gvsu.lyrasistechnology.org/repositories/2/resources/491">Young Lords in Lincoln Park (RHC-65)</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RHC-65_Garcia_Laura
Title
A name given to the resource
Laura Garcia video interview and transcript
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Garcia, Laura
Description
An account of the resource
Laura Garcia was raised in an immigrant farmworker family. She was a member of MECha, the Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán, in the struggle to build the United Farmworkers Union, and joined the Teatro de las Chicanas, a theatre troupe started by Felicitas Nuñez and Delia Ravelo, in the 1970s. She recently co-edited, with Sandra M. Gutierrez and Ms. Nuñez a collection of memoirs by members of Teatro Chicanas called Teatro Chicana (2008). Their most recent play is “Madres por Justicia,” which was first performed at the MALCS Conference in Los Angeles, August 2011.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Jiménez, José, 1948-
Subject
The topic of the resource
Young Lords (Organization)
Puerto Ricans--United States
Civil Rights--United States--History
Lincoln Park (Chicago, Ill.)
Personal narratives
Social justice
Community activists--Illinois--Chicago
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
<a href="http://rightsstatements.org/page/InC/1.0/?language=en">In Copyright</a>
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving Image
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video/mp4
application/pdf
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012-08-25
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Grand Valley State University. University Libraries. Lemmen Library and Archives